# LightBoost, G-SYNC, Turbo240: 120Hz Strobe Backlight LCDs / No Motion Blur!



## mdrejhon

*LightBoost Articles*

Various articles about LightBoost, the first truly low-persistence strobe backlight to solve the LCD motion blur problem:

*TFT Central*
Link: Motion Blur Reduction Backlights

*NewEgg and ASUS*
Link: 




*TechNGaming Review Article*
Link: Eliminate Motion Blur While Gaming With nVidia LightBoost!

*3D Vision Blog*
Link: Taking Advantage of the Lightboost Technology for 2D 120Hz Gaming
Link: Calibrating Picture of Lightboost For Better Color

*PC Games Hardware (German gaming magazine)*
Link: Nvidia Lightboost Strobe Hack

*PCMonitors.info (mentions the LightBoost effect)*
Link: Asus VG248QE Monitor Review

*Team Exile 5 (Professional sponsored competition gamers!)*
Link: nVidia GeForce GTX 660 Ti and nVidia LightBoost Technology

The lack of motion blur provides a reaction time advantage, because you can see everything clearly during fast motion, allowing you to react to enemies faster in online fast-action FPS games. Team Fortress 2, Battlefield 3, Counter Strike, Quake Live, etc.

*Forum Buzz*

There are many testimonials on many forums at the moment, so there's been many, many reports from enthusiac video gamers. It does not benefit other usage much (e.g. programming, web design, PhotoShop), but if you're a big time gamer who have used CRT's, then LightBoost is finally making some CRT die-hard's happy:
Quote:


> _original post (Transsive)_
> Then yesterday I, for some reason, disabled the 3d and noticed there was no ghosting to be spotted at all in titan quest. *It's like playing on my old CRT*.


Quote:


> _original post (Inu)_
> I can *confirm this works* on BENQ XL2420TX
> EDIT: And OMG i can play scout so much better now in TF2, this is borderline cheating.


Quote:


> _original post (TerrorHead)_
> Thanks for this, it really works! Just tried it on my VG278H. *Its like a CRT now*!


Quote:


> _original post (Vega)_
> Oh my, I just got Skyrim AFK camera spinning (which I used to test LCD's versus the [Sony CRT] FW900) to run without stutters and VSYNC locked to 120. *This Benq with Lightboost is just as crystal clear if not clearer than the FW900 motion. I am in awe*. More testing tomorrow. Any of my doubts about this Lightboost technology have been vaporized! I've been playing around with this fluid motion on this monitor for like 6-hours straight, that is how impressive it is.


Quote:


> _OCN post (Baxter299)_
> way to go vega enjoyed your review and pics ..thanks for taking the time .got my VG248QE last friday .*replacing my fw900* witch is finally taking a rest in my closet .


Quote:


> _OCN post (Romir)_
> Thanks for the timely review Vega.
> I went ahead and opened mine and *WOW, it really does feel like my FW900*. I haven't tried a game yet but it's down right eerie seeing 2d text move without going blurry.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheExodu5*
> _original post (TheExodu5)_
> Lightboost was a complete revelation, and brought me back to the CRT glory days.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cat*
> _QuakeLive forum post (Cat)_
> With my Asus VG278HE at 120Hz and Lightboost (the Lightboost registry hack doesn't currently support 144Hz) playing at 1080p *I am pretty much brutalizing my competition*. Even with its 2-5ms input lag, which is worse than the 1ms of my old 120Hz monitor the difference with Lightboost is so huge the input lag literally becomes a non-issue. The only thing that matters now that I don't experience any motion blur is my true reaction time.


The FW900 is a famous 24" widescreen CRT that has been a long-time favourite of CRT die-hards. If you were used to CRT gaming in the past -- and is very sensitive to motion blur -- *the motion blur problem has now been fully solved* on low-persistence strobe backlight LCD monitors, including LightBoost monitors and G-SYNC monitors.


----------



## mdrejhon

[NOTE: Old instructions from late 2012 have been removed from this post]

Please use the post above for the latest, easiest, and fastest instructions,
including *ToastyX Strobelight* which makes *LightBoost ON/OFF easy as a keypress!*


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## Derp

Does the monitor have to be in a specific setting for this to work? My 3d emitter at the top of the VG278H will not turn on unless I boot up a game and without the glasses everything is double imaged. I followed your instructions but I must be overlooking something obvious here....


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Does the monitor have to be in a specific setting for this to work? My 3d emitter at the top of the VG278H will not turn on unless I boot up a game and without the glasses everything is double imaged. I followed your instructions but I must be overlooking something obvious here....


Did you also try rebooting first?
Did you install the registry tweak (not sure if that's needed for your case, but just asking if you tried it too, anyway).
Also, you need to reboot after the registy tweak.

To confirm if LightBoost is enabled in 2D mode (maybe the 3D indicator doesn't show in your case)
Go into your monitor picture adjustment menu. Does it say LightBoost is enabled? (Some monitors tell you).
On VG278H, most picture settings will be disabled, and the LightBoost adjustment setting will be enabled.
If this is the case, you will now have zero motion blur when you do things like dragging windows around (text does not go blurry when you drag a window around).

Failing this, try disabling 3D, launching a game in 2D, keep game running, Alt+Tab back to nVidia Control Panel and re-enable 3D, then Alt+Tab back to the game.
It seems another user on HardForum is having exactly the same problem as you are, but one other seems to have solved the problem. Let's see what exactly the fix seems to be...


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## ivanlabrie

OMG!? Say wha?
Color me interested...I'm in the market for a good monitor, might have to check this out eventually.


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## FlighterPilot

So it combats the motion blur by strobing the screen between refreshed images? Sounds interesting -- like an emulated CRT. I would love to see the effect in person, but sadly I have an Asus vg236h which doesnt support lightboost2 to my knowlege.


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## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Did you also try rebooting first?
> Did you install the registry tweak (not sure if that's needed for your case, but just asking if you tried it too, anyway).
> Also, you need to reboot after the registy tweak.
> To confirm if LightBoost is enabled in 2D mode (maybe the 3D indicator doesn't show in your case)
> Go into your monitor picture adjustment menu. Does it say LightBoost is enabled? (Some monitors tell you).
> On VG278H, most picture settings will be disabled, and the LightBoost adjustment setting will be enabled.
> If this is the case, you will now have zero motion blur when you do things like dragging windows around (text does not go blurry when you drag a window around).
> Failing this, try disabling 3D, launching a game in 2D, keep game running, Alt+Tab back to nVidia Control Panel and re-enable 3D, then Alt+Tab back to the game.
> It seems another user on HardForum is having exactly the same problem as you are, but one other seems to have solved the problem. Let's see what exactly the fix seems to be...


I have not tried the registry tweak. I would like to try this without messing with the registry and since some are able to do this without the registry tweak, I must be doing something wrong. In 2d mode without the 3d emitter lit up the Lightboost setting in the monitor menu is greyed out.

When I boot a game up and the emitter turns on I can see that the light boost is enabled at max but the image is doubled without using the glasses. I did try your suggestion of disabling 3d, booting up the game, tabbing out and turning 3d back on but that didn't accomplish anything, Lightboost was still greyed out.

I'll try rebooting but I don't think that will help. Edit: didn't help.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlighterPilot*
> 
> So it combats the motion blur by strobing the screen between refreshed images? Sounds interesting -- like an emulated CRT.


Yes, it's a similar CRT stroboscopic effect, and produces the same zero motion blur effect.
If you're not sensitive to a 120Hz CRT flicker, you're okay with a 120Hz strobe backlight. (one strobe per refresh)

Zero motion blur is *FINALLY* possible on modern LCD panels because of 3D. This is because panels need to refresh fast enough to work with 3D shutter glasses (both shutters are closed while waiting for LCD to finish refreshing between frames). LCD makers have been aggressively working to refresh faster, and clear pixel persistence before the end of the same refresh, with aggressive response time acceleration technology. Conveniently, that makes strobe backlights possible. The vast majority of pixel persistence is far less than a refresh cycle nowadays on the new "1ms" and "2ms" LCD's that are 3D compatible.

You can even have 2 milliseconds of pixel persistence early in a 8ms refresh (120Hz), then strobe for only 1ms later during an 8ms refresh. The human eye only sees the 1ms strobe, instead of the 2ms pixel persistence (because it is kept in the dark) This allows you to completely bypass pixel persistence as the motion blur barrier. Your limiting factor is how short the strobes you can make. The shorter the strobes, the less motion blur. Strobe a backlight as short as CRT phosphor flicker. Voila. CRT Zero motion blur effect on an LCD -- thanks to LightBoost2 strobe backlight which apparently also can be forced to work in 2D (not just 3D).

Some interesting reading on strobe backlight technologies: Science & References


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I have not tried the registry tweak. I would like to try this without messing with the registry and since some are able to do this without the registry tweak, I must be doing something wrong.


I'd love to understand why some computers are behaving differently. Eventually, one of us will figure out the ingredients that cause such behavior.

Why not try manually changing the values?
It's a very small registry file (5 values), and you can easily undo it manually if nothing happens too.
Quote:


> Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
> 
> [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\NVIDIA Corporation\Global\Stereo3D]
> @=""
> "EnableWindowedMode"=dword:00000005
> "StereoVisionConfirmed"=dword:00000001
> "StereoTypeSet"=dword:00000001
> "EnablePersistentStereoDesktop"=dword:00000001
> "StereoRefreshDefaultOn"=dword:00000000


Especially try the *EnablePersistentStereoDesktop* setting, at least. You can do this modification by hand, and undo by hand, too.


----------



## FlighterPilot

Sounds interesting, and very exciting if the effect is as described! I remember only noticing refreshrates under 85hz on CRTs, so 120hz should be no problemo.


----------



## Roxborough

Wonder if there's anything I can do with my S27A950D?! Hmm!


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roxborough*
> 
> Wonder if there's anything I can do with my S27A950D?! Hmm!


You need LightBoost2. Not the older LightBoost or older 3D Vision monitor.

P.S. Even LightBoost2 could use some technological improvement because LightBoost2 actually dims the picture in 2D mode. It was originally designed to boost brightness through 3D shutter glasses (via strobing the backlight only while shutters are open, avoiding wasting backlight when both shutters are closed waiting for LCD to refresh). It was not designed to brighten the 2D picture. Short strobes often lead to a dimmer picture. You really need very short strobes, with very bright & expensive LED's to compenate. Strobed backlights (LightBoost2) are mainly found in expensive monitors.

Fortunately, the picture is perfect brightness for my eyes when I adjust Brightness to 92, and I mainly game at night, so it's not a problem. (It might be a problem for sunny computer rooms during the day, though).

EDIT: I just realized that older 3D Vision does not have LightBoost. So there's no such thing as a "LightBoost 1". Only the 3D Vision 2 with LightBoost -- the one I've been calling LightBoost2 because it's good for 2D too.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> I'd love to understand why some computers are behaving differently. Eventually, one of us will figure out the ingredients that cause such behavior.
> Why not try manually changing the values?
> It's a very small registry file (5 values), and you can easily undo it manually if nothing happens too.
> Especially try the *EnablePersistentStereoDesktop* setting, at least. You can do this modification by hand, and undo by hand, too.


Is it safe to add these keys? "EnablePersistentStereoDesktop" and "StereoRefreshDefaultOn" aren't in that directory for me to edit. The others are there and are already set to those values.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Is it safe to add these keys? "EnablePersistentStereoDesktop" and "StereoRefreshDefaultOn" aren't in that directory for me to edit. The others are there and are already set to those values.


Yes, it's safe to add those keys.
Note: If you are using Windows 8, you may get some strange login-screen redraw artifacts if you're using Windows 8. (start screen and login screen only). No problems at the Desktop. Appears to be a stereoscopic Windows desktop issue.


----------



## d-block

I really want to see this in person. This is amazing news.


----------



## ivanlabrie

What's the cheapest lightboost2 equipped monitor out there?


----------



## MenacingTuba

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> What's the cheapest lightboost2 equipped monitor out there?


The BenQ XL2420T, but the Asus models have better colours...


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MenacingTuba*
> 
> The BenQ XL2420T, but the Asus models have better colours...


On the other hand, LightBoost2 makes 2D dimmer. (The brightening effect is only seen through 3D glasses, it's simply timing the strobes only when shutters are open, surging an extra powerful light strobe through, and avoiding wasting backlight when both shutters are closed waiting for LCD to refresh between frames)

When using LightBoost2 in 2D mode, you really want the brightest possible backlight, so that LightBoost doesn't become too dim.
....so (drum roll), I hear the Benq backlight is famously known to be super bright...

I wonder if that's more important for LightBoost2 image quality?
Maybe someone can compare?
Get two, compare, and return one?


----------



## ivanlabrie

Hmmm tough deciding between those...I want an IPS version xD (not gonna happen...)
You raise some valid points, perhaps a compare is in order.


----------



## MenacingTuba

With nvidia light boost maxed, and the contrast set as high as possible (55, anything higher severely bleached the image quality and looked horrible), my BenQ peaked around 175cdm/2 brightness.

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i432/240hzTeslaStorm/BenQ%20XL2420T%20Review/3DChart.png

3D Vision Blog's Asus VG278H was pretty similar, no one has measured the VG278HE's 3D mode colours yet.

http://3dvision-blog.com/6365-more-on-ghosting-and-brightness-of-the-asus-vg278h-3d-monitor/


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## ivanlabrie

So it's either that Benq or an IPS for me...I'll have a couple of months worth of saving before actually buying into any of these.
Thanks for sharing!


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## DesertRat

Damnit. If I wouldn't have just spent $200 on my other hobby, I would totally get that benq. GF would be happy to get my 24" LED-backlit 1080p monitor.


----------



## whybother

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Yes, it's a similar CRT stroboscopic effect, and produces the same zero motion blur effect.
> If you're not sensitive to a 120Hz CRT flicker, you're okay with a 120Hz strobe backlight. (one strobe per refresh)


I'm not sure you can make such a comparison.

CRT has a very long phosphor decay. Flicker is simply a result of the last frame dimming to such a degree that the next bright frame shows a visible brightness delta. CRT TVs have a longer phosphor decay than monitors, allowing 50hz/60hz operation without eyestrain.

LED is instant on/off with no decay, which is why PWM is such an issue. Strobing may have a long "on" period, but the lack of decay is still there.

I plan to pick up the Asus 24" when it comes on sale and will see how it affects me. I'm very sensitive to LED PWM.


----------



## DoctorNick

I got the BenQ, but I'm on the red side right now, anything I could do to try this out?


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## d-block

Is there an AMD equivalent? Surely this can be done from both manufacturers.


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## MenacingTuba

No, it is for Nvidia 3D Vision 2 displays and Nvidia GPU's only.


----------



## KyesaRRi

Seriously interested in this, just need a 2560x1400/1600 monitor that supports LightBoost2 and a 780 or two. The motion blur from my Yamakasi can get quite annoying in fast paced games.


----------



## ivanlabrie

If 1440p goes mainstream we may see something like that...I would be happy with 1080p ips using this tech, on a more conservative size like 22".


----------



## Swolern

I have 3 VG278Hs. Im going to have to try this out. Thanks OP


----------



## d-block

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KyesaRRi*
> 
> Seriously interested in this, just need a 2560x1400/1600 monitor that supports LightBoost2 and a 780 or two. The motion blur from my Yamakasi can get quite annoying in fast paced games.


Interesting. Is your display the multi-input version?


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## Magariz

Is there a list of compatable screens? Curious to see if my 46" 120hz works with this. That would be amazing.


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## MenacingTuba

Nvidia's site has a list of compatible displays.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3d-vision-displays.html

TV's only out put 60hz signals and only monitors support 3D Vision 2/light boost.


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## whybother

Only monitors with LigthBoost will work.

Acer HN274hb

Asus VG248qe
Asus VG278h
Asus VG278he

Benq XL2411t
Benq XL2420t
Benq XL2420tx


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## CallsignVega

I've ordered the Benq XL2411t as that is the brightest Lightboost2 monitor and also has 1ms pixel response. Will let you know how it goes when it arrives for this test.


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## Swolern

HOLY CRAP IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!





















OMG SOOO SMOOTH!!!!!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I have not tried the registry tweak. I would like to try this without messing with the registry and since some are able to do this without the registry tweak, I must be doing something wrong. In 2d mode without the 3d emitter lit up the Lightboost setting in the monitor menu is greyed out.
> When I boot a game up and the emitter turns on I can see that the light boost is enabled at max but the image is doubled without using the glasses. I did try your suggestion of disabling 3d, booting up the game, tabbing out and turning 3d back on but that didn't accomplish anything, Lightboost was still greyed out.
> I'll try rebooting but I don't think that will help. Edit: didn't help.


I was having same problem as you Derp. I found a way to trick the monitor to keep Lightboost and disable 3d. What I did to get it to work without the reg hack is start the game (BF3) in 2d and minimize. Nvidia control panel-> Enable 3d with ALWAYS mode selected->apply-> then Test stereoscopic 3d-> select 120hz & Apply this refresh rate to all games-> Launch Test App

Close test app-> uncheck Enable 3d-> apply and now go in and out of games as you please. Thats it. Now you will notice the monitor get a little dim and most of the menu setting will be grayed out except Contrast & Light Boost. GORGEOUS!!!!


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I've ordered the Benq XL2411t as that is the brightest Lightboost2 monitor and also has 1ms pixel response. Will let you know how it goes when it arrives for this test.


Where did you find one in the states? ;o

Looking forward to that.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Vega should give us some good feedback


----------



## KyesaRRi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *d-block*
> 
> Interesting. Is your display the multi-input version?


No mine is one of the 120hz capable monitors. Playing a game like dayz running through the woodlands the trees can be blurred its nothing major but once you notice it its hard to look away.


----------



## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I've ordered the Benq XL2411t as that is the brightest Lightboost2 monitor and also has 1ms pixel response. Will let you know how it goes when it arrives for this test.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Where did you find one in the states? ;o
> 
> Looking forward to that.


I'm curious where you found one too.


----------



## MenacingTuba

Vega ordered the XL2411T from overclockers.co.uk


----------



## whybother

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MenacingTuba*
> 
> Vega ordered the XL2411T from overclock.co.uk


www.overclockers.co.uk

$400 shipped to the USA iirc.


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## CallsignVega

Nice feature the XL2411T has:






That is like cheating for those of us that play competitive games with dark areas lol.


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## bojinglebells

ok, so what do I have to do to get this working on my BenQ XL2420T without a USB emitter?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Nice feature the XL2411T has:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is like cheating for those of us that play competitive games with dark areas lol.


They've had this since the XL2410T, and the XL2420T took things a step further but offering a mini USB external controller that allowed you to hotswap between different monitor profiles, which was a huge plus IMO as while the "night vision" modes can offer a huge advantage in competitive games, the over all image quality is pretty terribad and particularly unbearable for any desktop work or other media viewing.


----------



## Roxborough

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> You need LightBoost2. Not the older LightBoost or older 3D Vision monitor.
> P.S. Even LightBoost2 could use some technological improvement because LightBoost2 actually dims the picture in 2D mode. It was originally designed to boost brightness through 3D shutter glasses (via strobing the backlight only while shutters are open, avoiding wasting backlight when both shutters are closed waiting for LCD to refresh). It was not designed to brighten the 2D picture. Short strobes often lead to a dimmer picture. You really need very short strobes, with very bright & expensive LED's to compenate. Strobed backlights (LightBoost2) are mainly found in expensive monitors.
> Fortunately, the picture is perfect brightness for my eyes when I adjust Brightness to 92, and I mainly game at night, so it's not a problem. (It might be a problem for sunny computer rooms during the day, though).


Oh I know, I was just wondering if there was "anything" I could do with my monitor, tweak wise. But to be brutally honest, 120hz and 2ms feels pretty damn smooth. Just a shame that there's not a single game I want to play that could make use of it.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roxborough*
> 
> Oh I know, I was just wondering if there was "anything" I could do with my monitor, tweak wise. But to be brutally honest, 120hz and 2ms feels pretty damn smooth. Just a shame that there's not a single game I want to play that could make use of it.


You don't understand. Your brain get's used to an image and thinking it is smooth. If I put a FW900 in front of you and scrolled two images between your LCD and the the CRT, your brain would instantly snap back into reality and realize the motion on the FW900 is far far superior. That is the same effect we are trying to get with the Lightboost LCD's.


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## emett

Hell yeahs! Great feature news. Not that I had any issue before, but any thing that makes my $600aud monitors perform better is always a bonus.
Thx OP.


----------



## Roxborough

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> You don't understand. Your brain get's used to an image and thinking it is smooth. If I put a FW900 in front of you and scrolled two images between your LCD and the the CRT, your brain would instantly snap back into reality and realize the motion on the FW900 is far far superior. That is the same effect we are trying to get with the Lightboost LCD's.


I understand perfectly well, I was just wondering what I could do to my current monitor. Where did I state anything about my understanding of this :S? You replying to the right person here?


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## mdrejhon

Mind you, there are some tradeoffs -- LightBoost2 does degrade color quality slightly, picture adjustments are locked on many models of monitors (due to response time acceleration being force-enabled and optimized for 3D). So some people may only enable LightBoost during FPS gaming where you get a reaction time advantage from the zero motion blur effect. Others may keep it enabled at all times, including the Windows desktop. I've left it enabled at the desktop, for everything.

We need a button to make it easy to turn on/off LightBoost, whenever we feel like it.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whybother*
> 
> I'm not sure you can make such a comparison.
> CRT has a very long phosphor decay. Flicker is simply a result of the last frame dimming to such a degree that the next bright frame shows a visible brightness delta. CRT TVs have a longer phosphor decay than monitors, allowing 50hz/60hz operation without eyestrain.
> LED is instant on/off with no decay, which is why PWM is such an issue. Strobing may have a long "on" period, but the lack of decay is still there.
> I plan to pick up the Asus 24" when it comes on sale and will see how it affects me. I'm very sensitive to LED PWM.


If you are sensitive to PWM, you will be sensitive to LightBoost. It's wholly possible certain people can tell apart the scanning versus strobing. However, I can't tell the difference between 120Hz flicker of a CRT and 120Hz flicker of a LightBoost, though I can see the 120Hz flicker unless I wave my hand in front of it (stroboscopic effect), or if I step back far away and then rolling my eyes (another stroboscopic effect - phantom array)

I agree that backlights should have the ability to run at high-speed PWM (1000Hz+ at least) whenever LightBoost is disabled. The LED backlights in LightBoost, are in theory, fully programmable. Perhaps a project for a good hacker.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bojinglebells*
> 
> ok, so what do I have to do to get this working on my BenQ XL2420T without a USB emitter?


Did you try the registry tweak?


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## Mals

OOhh my god guys, I have a Planar SA2311w and it doesn't have lightboost







(( whyyyyy.. Do I need to sell this immediately? I've died for the CRT feel in an LCD forever. Is it really that different? I'll tell you what I am going to do.. my buddy has the BenQ 2420, I am going to hack this onto his computer and see how it looks..and if it works, I'm gonna do it.

Is it really exactly what we all hope? I miss that CRT feel.. How about tearing? Does it still tear?


----------



## Junkboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I've ordered the Benq XL2411t as that is the brightest Lightboost2 monitor and also has 1ms pixel response. Will let you know how it goes when it arrives for this test.


Oh great master Vega lets us known specifically compared to your current screen as those of us who also own those 120hz 1440p Catleaps are very curious about this! The colour dimming might not be an issue for most but after using this screen for so long every time I look at regular TN or even nicer IPS screens they both look kind of dead and washed out, but if it's not too big of a step down and really does feel like a CRT I could always replace my second screen with one of these







.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Mind you, there are some tradeoffs -- LightBoost2 does degrade color quality slightly, picture adjustments are locked on many models of monitors (due to response time acceleration being force-enabled and optimized for 3D). So some people may only enable LightBoost during FPS gaming where you get a reaction time advantage from the zero motion blur effect. Others may keep it enabled at all times, including the Windows desktop. I've left it enabled at the desktop, for everything.
> We need a button to make it easy to turn on/off LightBoost, whenever we feel like it.


I would say color quality is very similar with very minimal loss in quality. At least with my monitors. The main difference, besides motion, is brightness. I would say it makes my LED monitors look
more like LCD without the LED backlighting as far as brightness quality. Some games I actually like the dimmer screens through. MOHW is a great example, especially afer their patch last night that increased textures & shadow quality dramatically.

Any small change in brightness is worth the benifit of fluidity in gameplay.

Also BF3 updated last night and is now choppy in any mode played. Working on a fix.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I've ordered the Benq XL2411t as that is the brightest Lightboost2 monitor and also has 1ms pixel response. Will let you know how it goes when it arrives for this test.


Only 1? I thought Vega only buys monitors in sets of 3 or more


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mals*
> 
> OOhh my god guys, I have a Planar SA2311w and it doesn't have lightboost
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (( whyyyyy.. Do I need to sell this immediately? I've died for the CRT feel in an LCD forever. Is it really that different? I'll tell you what I am going to do.. my buddy has the BenQ 2420, I am going to hack this onto his computer and see how it looks..and if it works, I'm gonna do it.
> Is it really exactly what we all hope? I miss that CRT feel.. How about tearing? Does it still tear?


Go get a LightBoost LCD. You will get the CRT feel back in an LCD -- Its back!

(Do wait for Vega's review. He owns a Sony FW900 CRT and will compare it to his upcoming 1ms Benq XL2411T in the mail)

No tearing when I enable VSYNC. However, some games are notoriously finicky. Some games look better with VSYNC OFF (less jerkiness) than VSYNC ON (more jerkiness). I am very sensitive to tearing, but at 120Hz, if a game has more stuttering with VSYNC ON, I'll prefer VSYNC OFF -- the tearing is so faint at 120Hz that it's the lesser of evil for games that stutters a lot more with VSYNC ON. Raising fps_max in Source Engine games helps a lot, there's a lot of different tweaks for different games to get them to run properly in 2D mode at [email protected] For most solo gaming, I prefer triple buffered VSYNC ON, if the game is well-programmed to do it properly, for the perfect motion feel. The input lag is tiny enough at 120Hz for my purposes. Your preferences will vary from mine.


----------



## Skylit

Correct me if I'm wrong, but tearing only really occurs when FPS hovers around your monitor's refresh rate. Combating that is more simple than people make it out to be.

The idea of Vsync in shooters/competitive games is quite silly as it:

1) Adds input latency. Then again most advanced rendering and "eye candy" will also contribute, though less pronounced.

2) Can hinder client-server networking on engines that update at higher frame rate. Or engines that allow clients to modify their networking for the best possible advantage.


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but tearing only really occurs when FPS hovers around your monitor's refresh rate. Combating that is more simple than people make it out to be.
> 
> The idea of Vsync in shooters/competitive games is quite silly as it:
> 
> 1) Adds input latency. Then again most advanced rendering and "eye candy" will also contribute, though less pronounced.
> 
> 2) Can hinder client-server networking on engines that update at higher frame rate. Or engines that allow clients to modify their networking for the best possible advantage.


Yeah, but for some of us, the tearing is so terrible without v-sync and any fps, the game is unplayable.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but tearing only really occurs when FPS hovers around your monitor's refresh rate. Combating that is more simple than people make it out to be.
> 
> The idea of Vsync in shooters/competitive games is quite silly as it:
> 1) Adds input latency. Then again most advanced rendering and "eye candy" will also contribute, though less pronounced.
> 2) Can hinder client-server networking on engines that update at higher frame rate. Or engines that allow clients to modify their networking for the best possible advantage.


From what I've seen screen tearing varies from game to game even though at same framerate. Different monitors also vary how pronounced the screen tearing is.

Agree about Vsync. I never use it, especially with competative multiplayer games. But it is very rare that I notice screen tearing on my VG278H monitors.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roxborough*
> 
> I understand perfectly well, I was just wondering what I could do to my current monitor. Where did I state anything about my understanding of this :S? You replying to the right person here?


You said: "But to be brutally honest, 120hz and 2ms feels pretty damn smooth."

Your eyes/brain get used to things when you have no reference or comparison. Sure it may "feel" pretty damn smooth, but if say you put your monitor next to a FW900 CRT, you would understand. Your brain has to be re-caged to a reference point or baseline. I know when I first got my FW900 and pitted it against some LCD's, I had to do a double take as it really shows you how lackluster motion is on an LCD in comparison. Hopefully these Lightboost LCD's can produce similar result in 2D mode.

I'd eventually like to take my 132 Hz 1440P IPS catleap and put on a custom back light to strobe as that would be near a perfect display, but these off-the shelf models are a good start.


----------



## Roxborough

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> You said: "But to be brutally honest, 120hz and 2ms feels pretty damn smooth."
> Your eyes/brain get used to things when you have no reference or comparison. Sure it may "feel" pretty damn smooth, but if say you put your monitor next to a FW900 CRT, you would understand. Your brain has to be re-caged to a reference point or baseline. I know when I first got my FW900 and pitted it against some LCD's, I had to do a double take as it really shows you how lackluster motion is on an LCD in comparison. Hopefully these Lightboost LCD's can produce similar result in 2D mode.
> I'd eventually like to take my 132 Hz 1440P IPS catleap and put on a custom back light to strobe as that would be near a perfect display, but these off-the shelf models are a good start.


That's not what I'm on about. I'm not disputing the fact my brain has no immediate point of reference, I'm just saying my system feels pretty smooth, I know it isn't; compared to a fast CRT. I've had ultra fast CRT's in the past, I've had all kinds of monitors etc... and thus far, I agree, CRT's are night and day in terms of motion blur compared to my monitor. But that doesn't deter from the fact my system feels pretty damn smooth. I've not spent thousands and thousands in my lifetime on components/peripherals to go backwards. And if I have, then I may as well take a long walk of a short pier. However, there is the other way to look at it, to go forwards, you have to look backwards. We all knew LCD technology would take over, it's more practical, cheaper to manufacture etc... Maybe I've just been anally displeased by consumerism. If that's the case, does anyone want to buy my PC? XD

Also, to show you I understand, I'll explain what I always explain when this misunderstanding occurs







. We're all subjects of our own culture and background, if you were brought up in a barren wasteland, no tree's, no grass, no nothing, just a hole in the ground. And someone random came out of the blue and told you to draw a tree, or some grass... how could you? You've never seen it.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Vega, that Catleap modding sounds impressive...bet you're up to the task! Would love to see that in action








For now I'll save and try to get a good ips panel, money's tight atm.


----------



## Swolern

There seems to be issues with BF3. The game is not smooth with or without the hack unless I am locked at 120fps. Now MOH Warfighter is eye gougingly smooth at 70-90fps and the hack.


----------



## emett

I'm getting stutter with these 310.70 drivers. What set are you using? I was gonna roll back this morning.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emett*
> 
> I'm getting stutter with these 310.70 drivers. What set are you using? I was gonna roll back this morning.


None of the older drivers made the stuttering any better. Its the game. Only fix was to decrease graphic settings to get framerate close to 120fps.

It's just weird that MOHW with the same Frostbite 2 engine looks so much better. BF3 just has issues.


----------



## Mals

So the 2411 is the new BenQ? I can't seem to find pricing/shopping for it.

Why are you guys doing this to me









I really have been enjoying my Planar. My buddy just got his Overlord Tempest 27" IPS and has it at 96hz and says it is ungodly.

But now I don't want a Tempest.. I want this. I will wait and see if you guys (specifically VEGA







) can accomplish perfection in games like BF3.

The crappy tearing/slow muddy movement of LCD's has marred my FPS experience so much to the point that I immediately stopped playing CS competitively when I first upgraded.

I MISS my CRT so much. Please update soon so I know if I should yet again shell out absurd amounts of money for a barely-upgrade.. sigh


----------



## emett

Well I just got it working and have to say im disapointed.


----------



## Junkboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emett*
> 
> Well I just got it working and have to say im disapointed.


May I ask why? And games did you play/test?


----------



## emett

You lose a lot of colour and brightness. I played battlefield 3. I noticed in place of the blur you get slight tearing on some things too.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emett*
> 
> You lose a lot of colour and brightness. I played battlefield 3. I noticed in place of the blur you get slight tearing on some things too.


BF3 is a bad game to test this with. The game is flawed right now with many SLI setups. It is very stuttery.

A simple test I did to check motion blur is to have 2 of my monitors with Lightboost on and 1 with it off. (All my desktop is at a constant 120hz)Then move a window around in a circle while keeping an eye on the text. Do this in both on and off Lightboost monitors. You will see the text in the moving windows stay more readable on the Lightboost monitors and gets blurry with the Lightboost off monitors with the same circular motion.

Do you have MOHW to test Emett?


----------



## emett

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> BF3 is a bad game to test this with. The game is flawed right now with many SLI setups. It is very stuttery.


BF3 is the only online game I play competively these days.


----------



## emett

Nah don't have medal of honour. BF3 is the only onlince fps I really play.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> HOLY CRAP IT WORKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OMG SOOO SMOOTH!!!!!


Quote:


> GORGEOUS!!!!


Welcome to the world of zero motion blur LCD gaming.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emett*
> 
> You lose a lot of colour and brightness. I played battlefield 3. I noticed in place of the blur you get slight tearing on some things too.


Yes -- small tearing formerly hidden by motion blur will become easier to see.
You need to tweak that a bit, such as enable VSYNC, triple buffering, or alternatively raise your frame limit (crazy high fps_max in Source Games, even try fps_max 240 or 480), and use a more powerful GPU, and lower your detail level. Doing high fps_max+powerful GPU will reduce tearing if you prefer VSYNC OFF. Once your GPU is generating frames far beyond 120fps, the high fps_max turns fewer bigger tears into many smaller tears, which will be harder to see.

So for source engine that's the benefit of fps_max 240 (or higher) instead of fps_max 120 -- less noticeable tearing because of smaller pixel shifts along each tear... (two small hard-to-see tears per refresh rather than one big easy-to-see tear per refresh) .... but your GPU needs to be crazy powerful to shoot well past 120fps.

Also, the LightBoost effect is only really worth it when you can push the game all the way to [email protected], so don't bother with LightBoost if your GPU isn't capable of 120fps. But when it clicks, everything is crystal sharp & you can identify enemies without stopping moving, allowing faster reaction times. Of course, LightBoost can also benefit other things like browser smooth scrolling (Chromium Smooth Scroll extension for Chrome).

On my monitor, LightBoost works at [email protected], so if you're having problems hitting [email protected], try setting the refresh to the 100Hz preset in Control Panel. (Custom Resolutions does not work with LightBoost, and refresh rates under 100 does not work with LightBoost)

And yes, the color/brightness does degrade when you enable LightBoost especially on ASUS. Raise your Contrast to 92 (that adjustment is still accessible via your monitor), it looks a lot better. I am able to improve the color a little bit through the nVidia Control Panel, though it may lead to some color clipping or blowing out highlights. I'm anxiously awaiting Vega's Benq XL2411T review, since Benq's are reported to be much brighter LightBoost monitors. I expect future strobe backlights should become better and better over the long term, with better panels and better LED's.

Long term, we need an easy utility button to turn on/off LightBoost on demand, so we can enable it only when we want it (e.g. FPS).


----------



## emett

Just upped the contrast from 60 to 80 and yeah massive difference. Have it right down to 60 for 3d as there is pretty much no ghosting. So when I first tested this I would have been seeing much darker results that someone with their monitors on default settings. I'll give it another go over the weekend.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> On my monitor, LightBoost works at [email protected], so if you're having problems hitting [email protected], try setting the refresh to the 100Hz preset in Control Panel. .


What kind of monitor and GPU setup do you have?

I have been reading about PixPerAn and going to test it out with the Light boost hack. I'll post back my results.


----------



## CallsignVega

Remember also that if you need 120+ FPS to match the Hz, that some graphics settings stress the CPU more than the GPU. In a lot of games, you need a fast CPU just as much as a fast GPU in order to feed frames that fast. Basically for this you just need a fast computer overall unless all you play is CS 1.6 or something.


----------



## Swolern

*Pixel Persistence Analyzer (PixPerAn) Readability Test Results 120hz:* Wow just wow! Speechless.........

-Highest readable tempo without Lightboost (LB) was *7* and even that was blurry and my eyes where straining to read it.

-Highest readable tempo with Lightboost was *30* (Only could read the first 5 letters)

So when i first turned on LB and tried the last failed tempo of 8 again (which was blurry non-sense w/o LB)and was shocked how crystal clear it was. Kept going up until i reached tempo 24 and completed the test successfully. But at this crazy fast tempo my head was hurting at all the right to left motion that my head was doing to keep up with this speed. Next I turned it up to the insane tempo of 30. The speed is so fast my eyes have trouble keeping up with the letters, but when i finally train my eyes to lock on the letters THEY WERE CLEAR! I could only get the first 5 letter out and correct, due to the insane speed of tempo 30. Maybe a trained eye like Vega can get out all the letters, but for me to be able to read 5 letters states that yes this LB hack makes my VG278H monitors have Zero perceivable motion blur.

Anyone that has done the hack must download to see the results. http://www.softpedia.com/get/Desktop-Enhancements/Other-Desktop-Enhancements/PixPerAn.shtml

On one side note there was a minimal ghosting effect with the letters. Similar to the 3d ghosting effect. The test letters are black print, the test background is white, and the ghost behind it was a very light grey/white. The ghosting was not a blur or trailing effect it was a perfect letter, just extremely light and very hard to see. The only ghost letter that was visible was the last in the grouping as im guessing the others ghost into the other black letters. But in no way did the ghosting effect the readability of the extremely fast moving letters.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Remember also that if you need 120+ FPS to match the Hz, that some graphics settings stress the CPU more than the GPU. In a lot of games, you need a fast CPU just as much as a fast GPU in order to feed frames that fast. Basically for this you just need a fast computer overall unless all you play is CS 1.6 or something.


I disagree, but I don't mind trading graphically fidelity for frame rate.

Things like AA, post processing.. etc.. just add latency. The only thing I really keep on high is textures


----------



## Lommi

I have the Benq XL2420T and no 3D glasses i was wondering how i install the tweak req file for accessing lightboost without 3D glasses. The link doesen't download anything it just shows the correct values, and do you guys think SLI 560 ti is enough to make lightboost worth it?
All help appreciated


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I disagree, but I don't mind trading graphically fidelity for frame rate.
> 
> Things like AA, post processing.. etc.. just add latency. The only thing I really keep on high is textures


What is there to disagree with? There are some games out there that even with my 5 GHz IB the frame-rate won't always stay at 120+ with graphics settings set minimum and showing low GPU usage. This means the game is stressing the CPU more and is CPU limited. A recent example of this is Darkfall: Unholy Wars beta.


----------



## Darylrese

ive installed the registry hack but all I have is '3D Vision Discover' not my Benq 2420T...will this work?


----------



## Lommi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darylrese*
> 
> ive installed the registry hack but all I have is '3D Vision Discover' not my Benq 2420T...will this work?


How did you install it?


----------



## Darylrese

Install what? I just downloaded the reg hack that's it! Other than that its listed as benq 2420t in device manager and running latest drivers 310.70 WHQL


----------



## CallsignVega

BTW my Benq arrived from the UK in 2-days. Unreal. Testing now.


----------



## mdrejhon

*Here's the BENQ XL2411/XL2420 instructions.*
Apparently, the driver seems to locks the Benq from being allowed to use LightBoost without buying 3D glasses. We need to override this, see below.

TuGuX from TechNGaming appears to have a solution that you could try working from, to trick a Benq into thinking it's an ASUS VG278H so that the LightBoost strobes works without glasses in 2D mode:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TuGuX*
> @[member='bojinglebells']
> 
> First, you install this .inf via device manager: http://www.scanningbacklight.com/files/Asus-VG278H-3D-Monitor-EDID-override.inf
> Then you reboot.
> 
> After this, you enable this: http://www.scanningbacklight.com/files/ForceLightBoostWithoutGlasses.reg
> 
> Make sure windows is set to 120Hz
> Goto NVIDIA drivers, check the box to 'Enable Stereoscopic 3D'.
> Assuming it has worked, it should now list the 'ASUS VG278H' monitor as the Stereoscopic 3D display type, and not '3D Vision Discover' which is there by default.
> In this same section, set the drop down box for stereoscopic 3D to 'Always Run'.
> 
> Now start a game, I tested it with CS:GO .. I had 60 FPS and real 3D on (which is not good) AND check your monitor settings (when you go in menu -> picture, there should be something like "Nvidia LightBoost", then it's working)
> 
> Next step, just uncheck 'Enable Stereoscopic 3D'. Now you should have more than 120 FPS with LightBoost (depending on your hardware), so everything is nice and working right now.
> 
> To turn it off, I guess you have to change the Always Run stuff, or completely deinstall monitor and install normal BenQ Drivers


----------



## CallsignVega

So far this is what I've come across in testing the Benq XL2411T trying to get Lightboost to work in games:

You must have the Asus "H" monitor .inf installed. This is the only way to trick the NVIDIA control panel into thinking you have an emitter. Applying the Benq .inf will tell you you don't have a USB emitter installed and it will never Lightboost.

Getting Lightboost to work in 2D mode/windows is easy. The problem is that smooth scrolling in Chrome, or anything else you would use on the desktop stutters. The increased motion clarity is indeed there, but the stuttering completely spoils it. The stuttering is like the text "bounces" up and down very rapidly and is very distracting. I am not sure if it is because of the FPS not exactly matching the monitor or what.

Lightboost on the Benq completely disables all monitor controls besides contrast. The good part is that the Benq stays pretty darn bright in Lightboost mode! I actually have to turn down the contrast some.

The bad news is that the colors go to hell and there is a maroon tint to the whole screen with Lightboost enabled.

Unable to get in a game in 2D mode whilst simultaneously having Lightboost enabled. With 3D enabled in NVIDIA control panel (NVCP), both Skyrim and BF3 start by default in 3D and there is no way to turn it off. If you start the game(s) in 2D, then change to enabled 3D in control panel and tab back into game, two different things happen. Skyrim just goes to a black window and crashes. BF3 alt-tabs back in, but when the screen transition occurs, the 2D windows Lightstrobe background turns off by itself and the game goes back to non-Lightstrobe 2D.

Thoughts?


----------



## CallsignVega

Doing some more testing, since I am a 3D noob, I found that there is a shortcut (Control-T) that disables 3D effects. So it is of no consequence that your game launches in 3D mode, just press Control-T. Voila, Lightboost enabled and no silly 3D effects.

Just got done playing a game of BF3. Definite motion clarity improvement, but maybe not quite all the way to a FW900. I'd say maybe 70-80% the way there based completely subjectively.

I also found that in addition to contrast, the Lightboost feature has a slider to make change to it's brightness. Not sure how it does this. (Possible different lengths of pulsing once per pixel?) If that were the case, dimming it down would make for less motion blur.

Some things I still have to test and work on:

This stuttering problem in Chrome (unrelated to Lightboost).
This color tint when in Lightboost.
Getting 144 Hz to work with Lightboost (works by default in 2D mode at 144 Hz even though Benq markets it as a 120 Hz monitor which I find completely inane).

All other features of the Benq like "Black eQualizer" do not work in Lightboost mode.

The largest benefits I see of this Benq is it's 1ms response time, even without Lightboost is the fastest LCD I have seen. It is also quite bright even with Lightboost enabled. 24" is about the limit for me on pixel size for 1080P which is also a plus for some people.


----------



## Swolern

Glad you got it working. For me Ctl T disables 3d and lightboost as well.

BF3 has issues with stutter at the moment with many setups. Do you have MOHW to try out? It works perfect for me, and is much smother that BF3, even at same FPS.

Also when having 3d enabled in Nvidia control panel and disabling 3d with Ctl T I have performance loss compared to 2d w/ LB.

Have you got PixPerAn to work? It sounds like your setup is still trying to default to 3d, in which i believe Pixperan won't work.


----------



## FlighterPilot

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Doing some more testing, since I am a 3D noob, I found that there is a shortcut (Control-T) that disables 3D effects. So it is of no consequence that your game launches in 3D mode, just press Control-T. Voila, Lightboost enabled and no silly 3D effects.
> Just got done playing a game of BF3. Definite motion clarity improvement, but maybe not quite all the way to a FW900. I'd say maybe 70-80% the way there based completely subjectively.
> I also found that in addition to contrast, the Lightboost feature has a slider to make change to it's brightness. Not sure how it does this. (Possible different lengths of pulsing once per pixel?) If that were the case, dimming it down would make for less motion blur.
> Some things I still have to test and work on:
> This stuttering problem in Chrome (unrelated to Lightboost).
> This color tint when in Lightboost.
> Getting 144 Hz to work with Lightboost (works by default in 2D mode at 144 Hz even though Benq markets it as a 120 Hz monitor which I find completely inane).
> All other features of the Benq like "Black eQualizer" do not work in Lightboost mode.
> The largest benefits I see of this Benq is it's 1ms response time, even without Lightboost is the fastest LCD I have seen. It is also quite bright even with Lightboost enabled. 24" is about the limit for me on pixel size for 1080P which is also a plus for some people.






Not sure if you were planning on purchasing that monitor before this thread or not, but thanks for returning, and giving feedback. +rep

Sooo, as a final verdict -- too good to be true?


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> Glad you got it working. For me Ctl T disables 3d and lightboost as well.
> BF3 has issues with stutter at the moment with many setups. Do you have MOHW to try out? It works perfect for me, and is much smother that BF3, even at same FPS.
> Also when having 3d enabled in Nvidia control panel and disabling 3d with Ctl T I have performance loss compared to 2d w/ LB.
> Have you got PixPerAn to work? It sounds like your setup is still trying to default to 3d, in which i believe Pixperan won't work.


BF3 is working perfect with Lightboost enabled. Testing with more blur tests. Are you saying you manage to have Lightboost on without having enable 3D checked? That is the only way I can get Lightboost to work. But, Lightboost stays on when I Control-T. Also, is the Asus back light intensity adjustable? Or just contrast? BTW this Benq is bright with Lightboost enabled!

Pixperan keeps crashing. Haven't tried alt-tabbing between 3D settings yet though.


----------



## Swolern

Double post


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> BF3 is working perfect with Lightboost enabled. Testing with more blur tests. Are you saying you manage to have Lightboost on without having enable 3D checked? That is the only way I can get Lightboost to work. But, Lightboost stays on when I Control-T. Also, is the Asus back light intensity adjustable? Or just contrast? BTW this Benq is bright with Lightboost enabled!
> Pixperan keeps crashing. Haven't tried alt-tabbing between 3D settings yet though.


Yes that is correct the way I have it setup is with 3d unchecked in Nvidia control panel. Selecting the "Always" under when to display 3d option seems to lock the Lightboost enabled.

Yes I have LB & contrast only available in Asus menu. I leave LB on maxed which is default. Contrast to 90.

Oh you have 680 SLI running 1920x1080 so your FPS will never fall below 120fps. I'm at 5760x1080 with 670 SLI right now so I have to lower FPS and as soon as FPS drops below 120fps I get stuttering. But even BF3 locked at 120fps with LB enabled, it doesnt feel as smooth as other games. Now MOHW with settings maxed gets 70-100fps at my res and looks gorgeously smooth with LB enabled. Do you have MOHW to test.

The definitive test is Pixperan if you can get it working correctly. You will have to have 3d disabled and LB enabled when starting the program.


----------



## CallsignVega

It seems Benq and Asus have different ways they "Activate" lightboost then. More testing is required.


----------



## CallsignVega

Oh my, I just got Skyrim AFK camera spinning (which I used to test LCD's versus the FW900) to run without stutters and VSYNC locked to 120. This Benq with Lightboost is just as crystal clear if not clearer than the FW900 motion. I am in awe. More testing tomorrow. Any of my doubts about this Lightboost technology have been vaporized! I've been playing around with this fluid motion on this monitor for like 6-hours straight, that is how impressive it is.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Oh my, I just got Skyrim AFK camera spinning (which I used to test LCD's versus the FW900) to run without stutters and VSYNC locked to 120. This Benq with Lightboost is just as crystal clear if not clearer than the FW900 motion. I am in awe. More testing tomorrow. Any of my doubts about this Lightboost technology have been vaporized! I've been playing around with this fluid motion on this monitor for like 6-hours straight, that is how impressive it is.


*Vega says better than Sony FW900 CRT for this?*
Wow!

Welcome to the brand new world of zero motion blur LCD gaming!

I just ordered a Benq XL2411T, to compare with the Asus VG278H.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> What is there to disagree with? There are some games out there that even with my 5 GHz IB the frame-rate won't always stay at 120+ with graphics settings set minimum and showing low GPU usage. This means the game is stressing the CPU more and is CPU limited. A recent example of this is Darkfall: Unholy Wars beta.


The statement you made here

Quote:


> Quote:
> Basically for this you just need a fast computer overall unless all you play is CS 1.6 or something.


There are quite a bit of titles that can push over 120 or even 144 fps with ease using 3 year old hardware. (1080p) Granted, ill purposely disable or any extra rendering/basic AA effects to achieve.

If by some means I can't, I'm willing to drop down to 720p adding minor latency. Our viewpoints on this are of course different. 

As much as I want to grab a BenQ, I can't reason with paying the extra shipping cost or potential lack of warranty. I hope the VG248QE isn't too pricey.. Would have been nice if they sold the XL2411T in the states for around the 300 ballpark :\


----------



## Derp

I originally got this working with the help of Mdrejhon and a couple registry tweaks but it made the start up screen and start menu of windows 8 unusable. It was also very annoying to disable 3d, start a game, alt tab, enable 3d and return. But It seems that I have found a way to bypass both of those problems.

I was able to fix the glitched start screen and menu by only adding one of the registry keys and none of the others. I added EnablePersistentStereoDesktop with a value of 1.

I was able to avoid the toggling annoyance of 3d vision in games by...... never enabling 3d vision. Lightboost is working without it enabled. 3d was off when I added the above registry key and it is still off. The 3d emitter lights up when windows gets to the login screen.

I'm worried that running the monitor like this 24/7 will severely lower it's lifetime though. It would be fantastic if one of you nerds (I say that In a completely positive and jealous way) could create a program that toggles light boost on and off.


----------



## whybother

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I'm worried that running the monitor like this 24/7 will severely lower it's lifetime though.


Not likely tbh. It's basically PWM synced to the refresh rate.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> It would be fantastic if one of you nerds (I say that In a completely positive and jealous way) could create a program that toggles light boost on and off.


Does this disable lightboost? Run from command prompt (or batch file).

net stop "nvidia stereoscopic 3d driver service"

change stop to start to re-enable


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I'm worried that running the monitor like this 24/7 will severely lower it's lifetime though


I dont believe so. Lightboost is made to be displayed anyways. The only difference in 3d mode is that the game textures are displayed twice on screen which then every other frame is visualized by the 3d glasses. And in 2d mode there are no glasses so every frame is visualized. Same concept, different way to view it.


----------



## Remix65

reading this thread is like watching a movie... it's pretty suspenseful. i hope no one (or monitor) dies a long the way.


----------



## Alex132

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Oh my, I just got Skyrim AFK camera spinning (which I used to test LCD's versus the FW900) to run without stutters and VSYNC locked to 120. This Benq with Lightboost is just as crystal clear if not clearer than the FW900 motion. I am in awe. More testing tomorrow. Any of my doubts about this Lightboost technology have been vaporized! I've been playing around with this fluid motion on this monitor for like 6-hours straight, that is how impressive it is.
> 
> 
> 
> *Vega says better than Sony FW900 CRT for this?*
> Wow!
> 
> Welcome to the brand new world of zero motion blur LCD gaming!
> 
> I just ordered a Benq XL2411T, to compare with the Asus VG278H.
Click to expand...

You sound like Billy Mays.

But one thing you can never get with an IPS/LCD/LED/w.e will be the colors of a CRT.


----------



## domerida

I got the Benq 2420T, that means i got no glasses and need the override files.
The files are downloaded from TuGuX, but when im trying to install the first inf file (http://www.file-upload.net/download-6944730/Asus-VG278H-3D-Monitor-EDID-override.inf.html) i tried to install it threw device manager with the "action" and "add lagacy hardware", but it dont work.

Is this the wrong method, or is this the 32bit version, and i got a 64bit windows7 OS.


----------



## Rayce185

Time to sell the Dell Ultrasharp then...


----------



## bulmung

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *domerida*
> 
> I got the Benq 2420T, that means i got no glasses and need the override files.
> The files are downloaded from TuGuX, but when im trying to install the first inf file (http://www.file-upload.net/download-6944730/Asus-VG278H-3D-Monitor-EDID-override.inf.html) i tried to install it threw device manager with the "action" and "add lagacy hardware", but it dont work.
> Is this the wrong method, or is this the 32bit version, and i got a 64bit windows7 OS.


How do you install the .inf file through device manager? cant seem to figure this out


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alex132*
> 
> You sound like Billy Mays.
> But one thing you can never get with an IPS/LCD/LED/w.e will be the colors of a CRT.


(Googled Billy Mays. Now I know)

I agree the LCD's usually don't have as good colors as CRT. *But have you ever seen a LaCiE?* Expensive $2000+ studio LCD computer monitors. Those looked better than most CRT computer monitor for static images! Bigger than 100% of NTSC colorspace, too. Technically, not exactly the same shade of colors as a CRT, and you get worse black levels. The worse black levels can be fixed by using local dimming.

Give it another 10 years, we might have the LaCiE color, combined with the zero motion blur effect, combined with high-resolution local dimming, in a 4K monitor. I wish it would be sooner than that, but with the way things are going... We might get ultra-short-strobe-length OLED instead.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayce185*
> 
> Time to sell the Dell Ultrasharp then...


Depends. Photo editing and color quality? Keep it. Mainly fast action FPS video games? Sell it. Have both side by side and make a decision.
You won't get nearly as good color quality with TN-based LightBoost. We're still waiting for IPS-based LightBoost. Technically, it's not impossible -- IPS-based 3D active HDTV's exist, they just need to be shrunk to computer monitor sizes.


----------



## FlighterPilot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Depends. Photo editing and color quality? Keep it. Mainly fast action FPS video games? Sell it. Have both side by side and make a decision.
> You won't get nearly as good color quality with TN-based LightBoost. We're still waiting for IPS-based LightBoost. Technically, it's not impossible -- IPS-based 3D active HDTV's exist, they just need to be shrunk to computer monitor sizes.


You know, I was hesitant to rep you because it looks like you've spammed every tech forum there is with copy/paste, but you've stuck with this one for quite a while now -- and with useful information.

you're okay sir.


----------



## amd955be5670

Not a bright person, but from what I make of it, it requires a 3D monitor and it should support nvidia lightboost2?

Damn. I was thinking "oh wow I discovered something epic for my monitor"


----------



## domerida

Quote:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by domerida
> 
> I got the Benq 2420T, that means i got no glasses and need the override files.
> The files are downloaded from TuGuX, but when im trying to install the first inf file (http://www.file-upload.net/download-6944730/Asus-VG278H-3D-Monitor-EDID-override.inf.html) i tried to install it threw device manager with the "action" and "add lagacy hardware", but it dont work.
> Is this the wrong method, or is this the 32bit version, and i got a 64bit windows7 OS.
> 
> How do you install the .inf file through device manager? cant seem to figure this out


Anyone?


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *domerida*
> 
> Anyone?


I think someone got it working on that monitor here bro. Take a look. http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=5b882b96dbe54b7c61e14bae32822f9c&t=1734114&page=11


----------



## Darylrese

I cant see anything on that post.

I would like to see some instructions for use with the Benq 2420T before I mess mine up!

I have installed the reg hack, downloaded the asus inf file but it refuses to install because its not digitally signed


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darylrese*
> 
> I cant see anything on that post.
> I would like to see some instructions for use with the Benq 2420T before I mess mine up!
> I have installed the reg hack, downloaded the asus inf file but it refuses to install because its not digitally signed


Did you read through the whole thread? There are a few people that got it working on BenQ monitors. You want me to find it for you or what...... I don't believe anyone tried it on the BenQ here.


----------



## Darylrese

no, just the page linked. I don't have time to read through 12 pages at the moment


----------



## mdrejhon

Vega on HardForum successfully got it working on a BENQ. I'll be creating a LightBoost FAQ in the next two or three weeks, and publishing it at my BlurBusters Blog, but give it time...


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd955be5670*
> 
> Not a bright person, but from what I make of it, it requires a 3D monitor and it should support nvidia lightboost2?
> Damn. I was thinking "oh wow I discovered something epic for my monitor"


Yes, you need an nVidia and a LightBoost monitor, in order for this tweak to work.


----------



## mdrejhon

Meanwhile....
My oscilloscope has arrived! I have definitively confirmed that the ASUS VG278H LightBoost uses 2 millisecond strobes in LightBoost mode. This is fully consistent with the motion test patterns showing at least 70% less motion blur, because 2ms is over 70% less than 8.33ms of a single 120Hz refresh.

See my BlurBusters Blog post:
http://www.scanningbacklight.com/asus-vg278h-lightboost-strobes-2-millisecond-120hz/
(has the link to the bigger version of the image & the full story)

http://www.scanningbacklight.com/asus-vg278h-lightboost-strobes-2-millisecond-120hz/


----------



## UNOE

Really enjoying this thread. Can't wait to use this. I have AMD and SA950 though


----------



## Deadeye

im just still curious on witch monitor to buy the Benq XL2411T or Asus


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deadeye*
> 
> im just still curious on witch monitor to buy the Benq XL2411T or Asus


The OP has the Asus and ordered the XL2411T. He should be doing a side-by-side comparison soon.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> The OP has the Asus and ordered the XL2411T. He should be doing a side-by-side comparison soon.


Pretty sure hes referring to the new unreleased Asus VG248QE


----------



## Deadeye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> The OP has the Asus and ordered the XL2411T. He should be doing a side-by-side comparison soon.


Waiting for the review


----------



## Deadeye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Pretty sure hes referring to the new unreleased Asus VG248QE


To be honest din't know that there is a new VG248QE but thanks will look for it also.


----------



## Pip Boy

interested in this.

why is it that nvidia always get the fun features


----------



## Deadeye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phill1978*
> 
> interested in this.
> why is it that nvidia always get the fun features


I just hope nVidia will not fix that registry hack for those who dosent have 3D nVidia Vision setup


----------



## CallsignVega

This is really great work by Mark but I am waiting for his dabbling in the world of IPS strobing back-lights. These 1080P TN monitors with CRT motion clarity are great for FPS games/players, but I demand a lot more from my screens in the image quality department. My screen must also be able to do windows/chrome and other than FPS games well.


----------



## ivanlabrie

That would be my dream monitor really...good quality ips with 120hz and this tech.








1080p and 22" is fine for me, 27" 1440p would be even sweeter.


----------



## UNOE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> That would be my dream monitor really...good quality ips with 120hz and this tech.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1080p and 22" is fine for me, 27" 1440p would be even sweeter.


Sign me up please, wallet is waiting.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Pretty sure hes referring to the new unreleased Asus VG248QE


No, I actually have the ASUS VG278H, I must have accidentally typed a different model number -- I was up late.

Yes, I've ordered the BENQ XL2411T. Yes, I will compare. Including my 1000fps camera and my oscillscope.


----------



## mdrejhon

Here's a video I've made for forum readers, captured at 480fps and 1000fps:

High Speed Video Of LightBoost






It also proves that strobing can be used to bypass pixel persistence.
Enjoy!


----------



## Swolern

Amazing work Mark







You are definitely a man of scholar when it comes to displays. + Many Reps and thank you.


----------



## Darylrese

ayone find out how to get the asus inf file installed with the BENQ 2420T?


----------



## pauly94

Can someone explain me how to install the asus vg278h EDID file? so i can use it with my benq xl2410t. im really interested


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pauly94*
> 
> Can someone explain me how to install the asus vg278h EDID file? so i can use it with my benq xl2410t. im really interested


Vega successfully did this, let's wait for him to post this or post a link to the instructions that successfully worked for him (I'm losing track, as I have threads like this ongoing in six different forums!).

I will be publishing a LightBoost Setup FAQ on my BlurBusters Blog within two to three weeks, since there are so many people asking questions, and I only have the ASUS VG278H at this time, with the XL2411T in the mail. I apologize for not being able to help everyone right away, and family is calling me away from my computer for Christmas. That said, there are ongoing equivalent threads on OCN, TechNGaming, here, AnandTech, AVSFORUM, and 120hz.net). The most useful instructions are found in the OCN, HardForum and TechNGaming at this time, if you want to google "XL2411T LightBoost zero motion blur", you'll catch those threads and some of them has instructions.


----------



## whybother

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pauly94*
> 
> Can someone explain me how to install the asus vg278h EDID file? so i can use it with my benq xl2410t. im really interested


You just update the monitors driver manually.

Right click desktop
Screen resolution
Double click display
Monitor
Properties
Driver
Update Driver
Browse my computer for driver software
Let me pick from a list of device drivers on my computer
Have Disk
Browse - > locate inf file
Next
Close
Close
OK

Possibly reboot


----------



## Swolern

After applying the inf file is there any settings you have to enable in Nvidia control panel Whybother?
Which BenQ do you have?


----------



## Darylrese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whybother*
> 
> You just update the monitors driver manually.
> Right click desktop
> Screen resolution
> Double click display
> Monitor
> Properties
> Driver
> Update Driver
> Browse my computer for driver software
> Let me pick from a list of device drivers on my computer
> Have Disk
> Browse - > locate inf file
> Next
> Close
> Close
> OK
> Possibly reboot


Doesn't let you do it in Windows 8 because its not a digitally signed driver. It refuses to install


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darylrese*
> 
> Doesn't let you do it in Windows 8 because its not a digitally signed driver. It refuses to install


I always run my Win in test mode:

http://laslow.net/2012/03/14/disable-driver-signature-enforcement-in-windows-8/


----------



## Darylrese

cool thanks, however my keyboard doesn't seem to respond on the selection screen, press 7 to disable driver signing and nothing







had to press reset button in end as keyboard didn't work atall

Ran the commands instead it says test mode in bottom right but still refuses to install it:


----------



## CallsignVega

Sign the file:

http://www.ngohq.com/home.php?page=dseo


----------



## nlmiller0015

I have asus 278he question is do I need a emitter for this


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> I have asus 278he question is do I need a emitter for this


No emitter needed, just use the INF file.


----------



## nlmiller0015

were is this inf file


----------



## Swolern

Edit: This was done on the BenQ. I'm pretty sure it should work on the Asus also.

_Original Posted by GuTux_:

First, you install this .inf via device manager: http://www.file-upload.net/download-6944730/Asus-VG278H-3D-Monitor-EDID-override.inf.html
Then you reboot.

After this, you enable this: http://www.file-upload.net/download-6944739/ForceLightBoostWithoutGlasses.reg.html (note: Mark Rejhon's file)

Make sure windows is set to 120Hz
Goto NVIDIA drivers, check the box to 'Enable Stereoscopic 3D'.
Assuming it has worked, it should now list the 'ASUS VG278H' monitor as the Stereoscopic 3D display type, and not '3D Vision Discover' which is there by default.
In this same section, set the drop down box for stereoscopic 3D to 'Always Run'.

Now start a game, I tested it with CS:GO .. I had 60 FPS and real 3D on (which is not good) AND check your monitor settings (when you go in menu -> picture, there should be something like "Nvidia LightBoost", then it's working)

Next step, just uncheck 'Enable Stereoscopic 3D'. Now you should have more than 120 FPS with LightBoost (depending on your hardware), so everything is nice and working right now.


----------



## nlmiller0015

Allright the download working but im lost were to install the .inf


----------



## Swolern

There corrected links. Sorry about that.

That way was done with a BenQ monitor. Not sure if your vg278he will work with just the second link. Might want to try that first.


----------



## Swolern

inf file install instructions on page 14


----------



## RegalX

so this work for 2D and 3D? on 120 hz montior like benq


----------



## th3illusiveman

sounds cool, but i'll wait for the next generation of 120Hz monitors.

Maybe the XL2430T will incorporate this, can't drop any money on another 120Hz monitor because most have slow pixel response times and i'm very sensitive to the artifacts that creates and i'm not sure how quickly this degrades the picture quality.


----------



## Deadeye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> sounds cool, but i'll wait for the next generation of 120Hz monitors.
> Maybe the XL2430T will incorporate this, can't drop any money on another 120Hz monitor because most have slow pixel response times and i'm very sensitive to the artifacts that creates and i'm not sure how quickly this degrades the picture quality.


Personally i dont think that nVidia will let other companies use their lightboost tech. Or just wait for OLED screens, they should be low input lag and response time.


----------



## pauly94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whybother*
> 
> You just update the monitors driver manually.
> Right click desktop
> Screen resolution
> Double click display
> Monitor
> Properties
> Driver
> Update Driver
> Browse my computer for driver software
> Let me pick from a list of device drivers on my computer
> Have Disk
> Browse - > locate inf file
> Next
> Close
> Close
> OK
> Possibly reboot


Thanks rep+


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> sounds cool, but i'll wait for the next generation of 120Hz monitors. Maybe the XL2430T will incorporate this, can't drop any money on another 120Hz monitor because most have slow pixel response times and i'm very sensitive to the artifacts that creates and i'm not sure how quickly this degrades the picture quality.


LightBoost bypasses pixel persistence, so you don't see the pixel persistence, except very faintly. See 



 which shows how LightBoost eliminates nearly all the human-visible pixel persistence artifacts.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deadeye*
> 
> Personally i dont think that nVidia will let other companies use their lightboost tech. Or just wait for OLED screens, they should be low input lag and response time.


Strobed backlight technologies exist in other displays, including scanning backlights in Sony and Samsung HDTV's -- see Existing Technology. LightBoost is only one of the many possible variants of strobed backlight technologies. However LightBoost is the _first_ really good, video-game-friendly strobed backlight technology to arrive on computer monitors, that also has a very clearly noticeable motion blur reduction.

Also, OLED will not necessarily have less motion blur than LCD, because many OLED's are sample-and-hold displays. However, OLED has great potential in being a good impulse-driven technology, but monitor manufacturers may prefer the flicker-free operation (good for photos, static images, less eye strain) over the zero motion blur effect (good for video games, fast motion sports broadcasts, live action, etc.). Ideally, OLED's should be able to support both sample-and-hold and impulse-driven modes. The PS Vita OLED is a sample-and-hold display, however.

TIme will tell what the monitor manufacturers do with OLED, but I expect it will be at least a few years before good OLED displays arrive. In the meantime, is plenty of opportunity for improvements to LCD (e.g. combining IPS with LightBoost or other non-LightBoost strobed backlight technology)


----------



## AllGamer

hmm... i tried the instructions, and i can not see any difference with and without it "ON"


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllGamer*
> 
> hmm... i tried the instructions, and i can not see any difference with and without it "ON"


Are you sure it was enabled? The difference seems to be significant to most people. The monitor menu will say that it's in 3d mode and you won't be able to adjust many settings. You can even wave your hand in front of your screen to see if the monitor is lightboosting.


----------



## General123

Well I did it, and IDK, after I did it BF3 was in 3D, So after that I disabled 3D in the CP and now I have no message that Light boost is on and my screen no longer dims.


----------



## Swolern

^ You dont have it working correctly. You have to select "ALWAYS" for 3d mode before you unchecked "Enable 3d".


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> ^ You dont have it working correctly. You have to select "ALWAYS" for 3d mode before you unchecked "Enable 3d".





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






EDIT: Well the game is no longer in 3D I guess it is working now, I see the difference not night and day or 60hz to 120hz but its a improvement none the less.


----------



## AlaskaFox

Heh.. and to think less than a year ago i was arguing with a dude who was saying lcd has hit an evoltionary wall and will never compare to crt.

In your face!

Too bad its nvidia exclusive.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: Well the game is no longer in 3D I guess it is working now, I see the difference not night and day or 60hz to 120hz but its a improvement none the less.


To get the full benefit you need to stay at a constant 120fps. Some games work better than others.


----------



## General123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> To get the full benefit you need to stay at a constant 120fps. Some games work better than others.


On top of that one, I run all my games basically on medium/low so I never go below 120fps


----------



## Swolern

Very nice








Most games its not a big visual difference in game settings anyways, except textures and shadows.


----------



## Arc0s

The best way to see the difference is to take the readability test in PixPerAn. On my Benq xl2420tx I'm only able to read until tempo 7 which looks very blurry, with light boost on it's very clear and easy to read at even higher tempos.







I just wish there was a way to leave light boost on without the game going into 3D mode.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> The best way to see the difference is to take the readability test in PixPerAn. On my Benq xl2420tx I'm only able to read until tempo 7 which looks very blurry, with light boost on it's very clear and easy to read at even higher tempos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just wish there was a way to leave light boost on without the game going into 3D mode.


Same here on my vg278h.
120hz LB off = readability tempo 7
120hz LB on = readability tempo 30 (first 5 letters) to fast for my eyeball to move, but I could read it!


----------



## Xyxyll

Just ordered a ASUS VG278HE to give this a try. I just hope I can get it all done on one GTX 680.


----------



## ruimfine

I've edited original XL2411T EDID and saved it to .inf file: changed only 4 values: "Manufacturer ID", "Model ID", "Serial number", "2nd description field"(Display Product Serial Number), "4th description field"(Display Product Name) to Asus VG278 values.
Now i have original XL2411T refresh rate timings, ability to set 144hz and ability to enable 3D in nvidia control panel at 100-120hz.
This .inf for XL2411T owners: http://ge.tt/api/1/files/6FMs6UU/0/blob?download mirror: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/17188606/monitor.inf
Also i found another trick to disable 120 fps capping when lightboost is ON. No any stuttering or tearing noticed.
1. Enable 3D (at refresh rate 120hz) via nvidia control panel.
2. Set refresh rate to 144hz via windows. Lightboost will be auto disabled.
3. Disable 3D via nvidia control panel.
4. Set refresh rate to 120hz via windows.
5. PROFIT
I hope someone will find trick to enable lightboost at 144hz. May be via DDC/CI/I2C.
Tested this all at benq XL2411T at win7 x64 with nvidia beta 310.70 and FIFA13 with FRAPS fps counter.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> The best way to see the difference is to take the readability test in PixPerAn. On my Benq xl2420tx I'm only able to read until tempo 7 which looks very blurry, with light boost on it's very clear and easy to read at even higher tempos.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just wish there was a way to leave light boost on without the game going into 3D mode.


Hit Control+T while inside the game in order to disable 3D.

Though, some were able to configure their systems to launch the game in 2D mode without 3D, while leaving LightBoost behavior enabled.


----------



## Ansive

Yeah, the "EnablePersistentStereoDesktop" registry dword. Keeps LB active even when 3D vision is disabled.

Has anyone here managed to run Diablo 3 on a LB monitor (or a CRT) at higher than 60hz properly ? (75, 85, 100, 120hz, all look bad for me, only 60hz has clear motion)


----------



## PiERiT

Wow, how did I miss this thread?

Looking forward to your ASUS/BenQ comparison. At $100 less I'd much rather get the BenQ.


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Hit Control+T while inside the game in order to disable 3D.
> Though, some were able to configure their systems to launch the game in 2D mode without 3D, while leaving LightBoost behavior enabled.


Thanks a lot, this made it 10x easier to use no more going back into nvidia control panel!









Also a funny thing I noticed the other day, every time my IR emitter is on it interferes with the signal from my digital cable box remote lol it's kind of weird.


----------



## M00NIE

I have been planning to upgrade to a 120hz monitor for a while now so im thinking of getting the BenQ XL2411T since it supports this. I'm curios of the usability, do I need to mess around with enabling this for each individual game each time I lauch, or can I have it enabled all the time or have it remember the settings for each game?

Considering I only have 570 what is it going to be like to use every day, I'm guessing I will struggle with higher end games and would have to disable. primary games i play are not so intensive anyway, CS:GO, LoL. Arma II occasionally being the most demanding.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M00NIE*
> 
> I have been planning to upgrade to a 120hz monitor for a while now so im thinking of getting the BenQ XL2411T since it supports this. I'm curios of the usability, do I need to mess around with enabling this for each individual game each time I lauch, or can I have it enabled all the time or have it remember the settings for each game?
> Considering I only have 570 what is it going to be like to use every day, I'm guessing I will struggle with higher end games and would have to disable. primary games i play are not so intensive anyway, CS:GO, LoL. Arma II occasionally being the most demanding.


You only have to enable it once. CS GO would look great with LB. Other newer games will need another 570 to take advantage of any 120hz monitor.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M00NIE*
> 
> I have been planning to upgrade to a 120hz monitor for a while now so im thinking of getting the BenQ XL2411T since it supports this. I'm curios of the usability, do I need to mess around with enabling this for each individual game each time I lauch, or can I have it enabled all the time or have it remember the settings for each game?
> Considering I only have 570 what is it going to be like to use every day, I'm guessing I will struggle with higher end games and would have to disable. primary games i play are not so intensive anyway, CS:GO, LoL. Arma II occasionally being the most demanding.


You ideally really need to run at full framerate ([email protected], or at least [email protected] -- the minimum Hz for the LightBoost strobing feature), so you should probably upgrade at least a single 680. You should be fine with Source-engine games with a single 680, even with everything enabled. For Crysis-engine games, you'll need at 680 SLI at least (maybe a 690). Crysis will be quite nicely playable, it just won't have the same zero motion blur effect seen in Source videogames, because it'll often run at less than 120fps in the big open spaces (I, myself, only have a single 680)

If you can't even run at full framerates in Source engine games (e.g. [email protected]), focus on your GPU first. 570 will not be enough. Also get a gaming mouse too, makes an even more noticeable difference for 120Hz than for 60Hz, and even moreso with CRT or LightBoost, since jerky mouse motions now become more noticeable with zero motion blur.

Usability:
-- First time setup: If you do not have shutter glasses, the difficulty is the confusing one-time setup procedure (you need to install the VG278H INF file for your BENQ) to force LightBoost to work, and the registry setting, but after that, you are now golden. The setup process is the most arduous part.
-- Subsequent use: Quite easy. The usability becomes easy after that. Don't need to do it for every game. You simply hit Control+T to enable/disable 3D in the specfic game.

Some notes:
-- You don't even need to use the 3D at all, just get the monitor without the shutter glasses. That said, the 3D is nice in *certain* games and you still get the zero motion blur effect if it's running full framerate (e.g. I'd turn on 3D for Portal 2, but I'd turn 3D off for most games)
-- You MAY have to do some game-specific tweaks such as removing a framelimit (e.g. increase max_fps in a Source engine game)


----------



## M00NIE

Thanks so much for the reply will help not just me but some friends who are interested to.

I currently run CS capped at 150fps, I think it goes a lot higher if I remove the cap so I'm confident I can play CS:GO. I think this justifies the purchase enough considering I can easily switch the feature on/off.


----------



## mdrejhon

If CS is your priority, it certainly can run at 120fps on a 570 if you've adjusted your settings accordingly. The litmus test will be the slowdowns, if you have those often enough.


----------



## Swolern

Anyone have any problems getting 2d Lightboost working on Windows 8?


----------



## M00NIE

Quick question if one of you could help me out, my 570 can only run 2 monitors despite having 3 ports. If i use both DVI for this 120hz monitor can i still use my 570's hdmi connection? (TV runs off my onboard, need another output for my second monitor)


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M00NIE*
> 
> Quick question if one of you could help me out, my 570 can only run 2 monitors despite having 3 ports. If i use both DVI for this 120hz monitor can i still use my 570's hdmi connection? (TV runs off my onboard, need another output for my second monitor)


I'm sure you don't need to use two DVI ports? My GTX 580 sends 120Hz via one single port (that supports dual-link or whatever it's called)


----------



## M00NIE

ah that makes sense, cheers


----------



## M00NIE

delete


----------



## mdrejhon

I have now posted a new universal guide on my BlurBusters Blog, that works on all LightBoost-enabled ASUS and BENQ monitors.

*LightBoost HOWTO: Instructions for Zero Motion Blur on LightBoost LCD's*

This is the world's first Windows 7+8 compatible guide that is compatible with all known LightBoost monitors
ASUS VG278H
ASUS VG278HE
BENQ XL2420T
BENQ XL2411T


----------



## M00NIE

Thanks for the work you put into this makes it a lot easier for me to recommend to friends when there is a guide i can link, compared to making them scroll though forums to pick the information they need.

Also to report back i just purchased the BENQ XL2420T and i am truly in love

I had some problems with pages and programs loading up and being all black at first. However once i just left 3d on all the time and used ctrl t to disable once in game i haven't managed to replicate it. This is compared to disabling 3d while game and restarting the game so light boost was still on despite all 3d options being disabled in the nvidia control panel. This method let me go above 120 fps in CS:GO, compared to having 3d enabled but using ctrl t capps it to 120. so for convenience I'm using the toggle option.


----------



## writer21

Cant get this to work with quakelive but works with black ops 2 and bf3... Also massive stuttering and frame drops when first loading game but is gone after around 30 seconds.


----------



## Swolern

Awesome! Thanks for the great guide Mark









After I tried out your 2d Lightboost I refuse to game on 2d without it!


----------



## Doubleome

Was just about to get a 27" IPS 1440p screen next to me 120 hz TN. Gonna run my TN in 60 hz mode for a while to see if I can stand it.

Regarding the lightboost 2D motion blur reduction. I feel like waiting untill companies like Asus, Benq or even Nvidia exploit this new feature for 2D gaming instead of being a "hack" like now.

Also I would assume even 60 FPS 120 HZ this would have a great affect right ?


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Doubleome*
> 
> Was just about to get a 27" IPS 1440p screen next to me 120 hz TN. Gonna run my TN in 60 hz mode for a while to see if I can stand it.
> 
> Regarding the lightboost 2D motion blur reduction. I feel like waiting untill companies like Asus, Benq or even Nvidia exploit this new feature for 2D gaming instead of being a "hack" like now.
> 
> Also I would assume even 60 FPS 120 HZ this would have a great affect right ?


From what i have read no. You need close to 120fps @ 120hz to get the full 2d Lightboost effect. But i have had a couple games where 80fps looks stunningly smooth, and others where 80fps looks like crap.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Doubleome*
> 
> Also I would assume even 60 FPS 120 HZ this would have a great affect right ?


It depends on the game and how smooth the 60fps is. If it's smooth 60fps without random frame fluctuations.

The motion blur on LCD's had a double-edged-sword advantage: Slow LCD pixel response hid stutters better.
Stutter drops on CRT's have always been more noticeable than stutters on LCD's.
LightBoost strobe backlight displays produce this exact same motion behavior as CRT.
People who have tried CRT [email protected] versus CRT [email protected], will tell you that framerates locked to refresh rate, looks so much better. The same thing happens with a strobe backlight.

So to not worry about stutters, you should have really high framerates.
Ideally, [email protected], but many framerates such as 80fps and 100fps will still look better as long it output the frames "consistently".
For 100% full benefit of LightBoost, you really want the full framerate matching refresh rate.
At [email protected], you will be buttery-smooth, zero motion blur -- far smoother than non-LightBoost 120Hz.
Also, LightBoost supports 100Hz, so you can run [email protected], if necessary.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> Cant get this to work with quakelive but works with black ops 2 and bf3... Also massive stuttering and frame drops when first loading game but is gone after around 30 seconds.


Try installing the ForceLightBoostWithoutGlasses.reg file, so you enable LightBoost at the Windows Desktop. Games that run inside a web browser, will more frequently require this registry tweak.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Doubleome*
> 
> Was just about to get a 27" IPS 1440p screen next to me 120 hz TN. Gonna run my TN in 60 hz mode for a while to see if I can stand it.
> 
> Regarding the lightboost 2D motion blur reduction. I feel like waiting untill companies like Asus, Benq or even Nvidia exploit this new feature for 2D gaming instead of being a "hack" like now.


Good news! I found *vendor-supported instructions*!
No registry tweak or INF files! But the vendor supported method requires you to have the 3D emitter, and you don't get the LightBoost effect at the Windows desktop but in games instead.

*LightBoost HOWTO: Zero Motion Blur on All LightBoost LCD's:*
*--> www.scanningbacklight.com/lightboost-zero-motion-blur*

- Two separate sets of instructions included.
- Vendor supported method (no registry/INF tweaks, requires you to buy 3D emitter even if you don't use 3D)
- Hack method (bypass 3D emitter, no need to purchase)


----------



## Swolern

Mark I have found a couple flaws using that method.
1. There is a performance decrease in some games with 3d enabled & Ctl T vs 3d disabled 2d Lightboost. I don't have exact figures, will have to test more.

2. With BF3 multiplayer (which many people will use this for) Ctl T 3d re-enables itself after every death. So 3d will be constantly on and off.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> Mark I have found a couple flaws using that method.
> 1. There is a performance decrease in some games with 3d enabled & Ctl T vs 3d disabled 2d Lightboost. I don't have exact figures, will have to test more.
> 2. With BF3 multiplayer (which many people will use this for) Ctl T 3d re-enables itself after every death. So 3d will be constantly on and off.


Does the performance decrease occur in all games, or only some games?


----------



## Swolern

Only tested in BF3 and it was a few Nvidia drivers back. I will test with newest drivers and report back.


----------



## Swolern

Ok it wasnt as much as a difference as i remember with older drivers. It is still @ 4-5%, but i guess that is within the margin of error. But i did still have the continuous switching back and forth of 3d with Clt T method.

Tested with same empty BF3 mp map @ 5910x1080 bezel corrected res.
3-way SLI with 4th card dedicated to PhysX

Ctl T Method


3d disabled in Nvidia Control Panel, LB enabled


----------



## writer21

I have the Vg278he monitor and tried this. Anyone got good color settings with this motion blur trick? Only workaround is using sweetfx.
Also can this damage my monitor?


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> I have the Vg278he monitor and tried this. Anyone got good color settings with this motion blur trick? Only workaround is using sweetfx.
> Also can this damage my monitor?


Increase contrast to 92

No


----------



## hamzatm

My VG278HE shows massive ghosting with lightboost. Followed all instructions, contrast 92 etc.

Scrolling a webpage leaves very noticeable ghost trails.

Anyone have any ideas?


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> My VG278HE shows massive ghosting with lightboost. Followed all instructions, contrast 92 etc.
> 
> Scrolling a webpage leaves very noticeable ghost trails.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas?


Hmm. There is a tiny faint ghost image when moving something black on white background very fast. The ghost only trails behind the image 1mm at most and is very hard to see. Dont notice any ghosting in games. What you are describing sounds severe. Have you tried both 120hz and 144hz settings? If not mistaken the Lightboost can only coordinate up to 120hz. Do you see any of this in-game?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> My VG278HE shows massive ghosting with lightboost. Followed all instructions, contrast 92 etc.
> Scrolling a webpage leaves very noticeable ghost trails.
> Anyone have any ideas?


Your LightBoost may not be turned on --
Can you go into your monitor adjustments and tell me if the "LightBoost" is adjustable in the monitor's mneus?
If not, then that means your LightBoost is turned off via the graphics card -- try double checking the instructions.
If it is adjustable, let's troubleshoot.


----------



## mdrejhon

FYI, immetjes on overclockers.co.uk forum, has posted a pretty impressive
PixPerAn image BENQ XL2411T. I concur I'm getting the same thing.
Truly zero ghosting, zero motion blur, zero trailing, zero coronas.
The ultrafaint artifact is not noticeable without a magnifying glass.


(Credit: immetjes on overclockers.co.uk thread)

Although pursuit camera images are better (e.g. MotionMaster Motion Blur Measurement Kit),
this is additional proof of LightBoost successfully bypassing pixel persistence (in addition to my 



).

Original post from overclockers.co.uk thread:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *immetjes;23561757*
> Lightboost in 2D is certainly working. I have a XL2411T since 17-Dec-2012 and I did the readibility test part and the little car of PixPerAn. (I also posted this on pcmonitors, but it is so good I'll repeat it here).
> 
> I have made sure the monitor was in 3D mode without actually showing 3D. Lightboost is on. Refresh rate is on 120Hz. I have made a Macro photo of PixPerAn, shutter speed 1/160s, ISO800. This is the result: http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1236480/
> 
> Compared to lightboost off you can clearly see that there is hardly any blurring. Here is a PixPerAn photo using the same camera settings: http://i.imgur.com/clcVc.jpg .I tried to get a picture at 120Hz with no lightboost. But whatever I did the monitor refused to get out of the lightboost mode when using 120Hz. Therefor this picture is made at 144Hz.
> 
> I also did the readability test and was able to read rather easy upto level 24. At 25 it was going so fast I was only able to read the first 5 characters. I then tried the maximum of 30 and the text was still readable, however, because of the speed my head/eyes were unable to follow the text, it was still readable though.
> 
> Without lightboost I was able in the 144Hz mode to get with some effort upto level 10 of the readability test. After that the text became to blurred. I did the same test on my HP w2270h monitor and after level 8 or so the text became completely blurred.
> 
> in BF3 my scores definitly are improving. Especially in close combat circling around enemies. I'm able to keep on focus, where it used to blur all. GREAT! Also spotting foes from the corner of your eye when running, flying or driving improved a lot.


(I concur with this post, too!)


----------



## Swolern

Nice pic Mark.

Did you ever get your BenQ in to compare it to your vg278h? Less ghosting?

Also how high did you get on Pixperan readability test? 30


----------



## Derp

Couple more questions.

1. For the best result you keep saying [email protected] Are you suggesting a frame rate cap at 120fps or is anything above 120fps fine?

2. The vendor supported method seems to force vsync on even if I have it forced off in the drivers for the specific game. Any work around for this other than using the registry hack?


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Couple more questions.
> 
> 1. For the best result you keep saying [email protected] Are you suggesting a frame rate cap at 120fps or is anything above 120fps fine?


Depends on the game. But from what i have seen most games will look great above 120fps @ 120hz. But I believe vsync enabled will produce the best motion quality/clarity with each frame displayed timed exactly with the hz refresh rate of the monitor. That's if you dont mind vsync lag.
Quote:


> 2. The vendor supported method seems to force vsync on even if I have it forced off in the drivers for the specific game. Any work around for this other than using the registry hack?


Here is what i did to get the VG278H stuck in 2d Lightboost mode (3d)


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I did not use any registry tweak for my setup. What i did:
-> install clean Nvidia driver 306.xx or newer
-> checked enable stereoscopic 3d box
-> ran 3d Wizard
-> ran test stereoscopic 3d in N control panel
-> set refresh rate to 120hz & select Apply refresh rate to all games box, apply
-> launch test stereoscopic 3d tab
-> exit test app, (monitor should now be stuck in 3d mode)
-> uncheck Enable stereoscopic 3d box
-> apply


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> Nice pic Mark.
> Did you ever get your BenQ in to compare it to your vg278h? Less ghosting?
> Also how high did you get on Pixperan readability test? 30


Got my XL2411T. I posted a sneak preview comparision in the HardForum thread, but I can crosspost over to here later.
Both are still zero motion blur. The faint "sharp ghost" effect ASUS was already very faint (like 3D crosstalk). The BENQ is much better in terms of remant trailing artifacts.

There's virtually zero crosstalk between refreshes, which makes the BENQ the best "3D glasses" monitor available (at the moment) if you like stereoscopic gaming.
I was not able to see the inter-refresh crosstalk on the ASUS most of the time (faint sharp duplicate edge artifact), but the new 1ms panels makes that even better.

I now have Windows 8 so I lost the ability to properly run PixPerAn properly, but I tested my motion tests (the one I announced on my blog) and am getting good measured MPRT (Motion Picture Response Time) in the 1.4ms to 1.9ms range with the BENQ XL2411T. The 1.9 value translates to a motion equivalence ratio almost reaching the 600 range, which is a score 10 times bigger than a typical 60Hz LCD. Note that MPRT is a different measurement method than pixel persistence, and MPRT measurements also works for plasma/CRT displays.

The PixPerAn score 30 is no problem for displays with MPRT's of less than 2ms. The limiting factor is the human eyes factor to be able to read fast moving text; so people are often getting 25-30 (but that's what some people were also getting when they ran PixPerAn on a 120Hz CRT, too -- they could not move their eyes fast enough to follow the text). The PixPerAn readability test runs at double speed at 120Hz than 60Hz, so the score of 30 is even more impressive at 120Hz than at 60Hz. This also additionally shows that motion blur is below human perceptible levels because any ultra-faint remaining motion blur is occurring when moving objects are moving too fast for human eyes to track.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> Depends on the game. But from what i have seen most games will look great above 120fps @ 120hz. But I believe vsync enabled will produce the best motion quality/clarity with each frame displayed timed exactly with the hz refresh rate of the monitor. That's if you dont mind vsync lag.
> Here is what i did to get the VG278H stuck in 2d Lightboost mode (3d)
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I did not use any registry tweak for my setup. What i did:
> -> install clean Nvidia driver 306.xx or newer
> -> checked enable stereoscopic 3d box
> -> ran 3d Wizard
> -> ran test stereoscopic 3d in N control panel
> -> set refresh rate to 120hz & select Apply refresh rate to all games box, apply
> -> launch test stereoscopic 3d tab
> -> exit test app, (monitor should now be stuck in 3d mode)
> -> uncheck Enable stereoscopic 3d box
> -> apply


I followed your instructions and my display doesn't get stuck in 3d mode after exiting the 3d test. And no, I absolutely cannot stand the input lag introduced by Vsync. It looks extremely clear but mouse movement is disgusting.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Got my XL2411T. I posted a sneak preview comparision in the HardForum thread, but I can crosspost over to here later.
> Both are still zero motion blur. The faint "sharp ghost" effect ASUS was already very faint (like 3D crosstalk). The BENQ is much better in terms of remant trailing artifacts.
> 
> There's virtually zero crosstalk between refreshes, which makes the BENQ the best "3D glasses" monitor available (at the moment) if you like stereoscopic gaming.
> I was not able to see the inter-refresh crosstalk on the ASUS most of the time (faint sharp duplicate edge artifact), but the new 1ms panels makes that even better.
> 
> I now have Windows 8 so I lost the ability to properly run PixPerAn properly, but I tested my motion tests (the one I announced on my blog) and am getting good measured MPRT (Motion Picture Response Time) in the 1.4ms to 1.9ms range with the BENQ XL2411T. The 1.9 value translates to a motion equivalence ratio almost reaching the 600 range, which is a score 10 times bigger than a typical 60Hz LCD. Note that MPRT is a different measurement method than pixel persistence, and MPRT measurements also works for plasma/CRT displays.
> 
> The PixPerAn score 30 is no problem for displays with MPRT's of less than 2ms. The limiting factor is the human eyes factor to be able to read fast moving text; so people are often getting 25-30 (but that's what some people were also getting when they ran PixPerAn on a 120Hz CRT, too -- they could not move their eyes fast enough to follow the text). The PixPerAn readability test runs at double speed at 120Hz than 60Hz, so the score of 30 is even more impressive at 120Hz than at 60Hz. This also additionally shows that motion blur is below human perceptible levels because any ultra-faint remaining motion blur is occurring when moving objects are moving too fast for human eyes to track.


Good to hear about the BenQ, thanks for the review. I could read the first 5 letters of level 30 of Pixperan, but like you said the text is just moving so fast its was too damn hard for my eyeballs to keep up, but it was clear.

Lightboost has been great. I will not game in 2d without Lightboost anymore.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I followed your instructions and my display doesn't get stuck in 3d mode after exiting the 3d test. And no, I absolutely cannot stand the input lag introduced by Vsync. It looks extremely clear but mouse movement is disgusting.


Hmm. It works every time for me 100%. Are you on Win7 or 8? Im on 7.
What driver are you using?
Many people i have talked to get the same results as me with the vg278h.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I followed your instructions and my display doesn't get stuck in 3d mode after exiting the 3d test. And no, I absolutely cannot stand the input lag introduced by Vsync. It looks extremely clear but mouse movement is disgusting.


I'm able to disable VSYNC during videogames with LightBoost enabled. At least in Source engine video games.
You may want to try the ForceLightBoost registry file (Even if you already have 3D glasses).

There's another way to do this test (temporary): Start the game in 2D mode without LightBoost. Ensure you've got VSYNC on. Now keep the game running but switch to desktop (Alt+Tab) and go to nVidia Control Panel, enable 3D, and go back to the game that's still running. It will still be in 2D, with VSYNC off, but LightBoost is enabled.

......Bottom line: It appears we badly need a software utility (separate from nVidia Control Panel) that force-enables LightBoost independently of the nVidia graphics drivers / nVidia Control Panel. Something that can easily be invoked by hotkey. I'm wondering if LightBoost is enabled via a DDC command. I could license a copy of WinI2C/DDC (http://www.nicomsoft.com/wini2cddc-general-information/) and write a utility that transmit the DDC command to enable LightBoost independently of the graphics driver. (Side effect: Radeon support) The problem is I need to find a way to snoop the DDC channel to determine what command triggers LightBoost to be enabled. Probably a command that enables stereoscopic mode on the monitor side of things. If I could do this covertly without the graphics drivers going into stereoscopic mode, then I've got LightBoost during 2D that can now be rolled into a convenient system tray utility that can be fired at will, even via a hotkey. Some interesting stuff about hacking DDC from a BlackHat conference paper; this may be relevant, since I have Arduino circuits which could snoop into the I2C bus of the VESA DDC line of a DVI connection, to try and reverse engineer the LightBoost command. Alas, I'd appreciate help from a volunteer. (I'll try contacting ToastyX)


----------



## mdrejhon

P.S. May add Samsung S23A950D to supported monitors list for LightBoost. Someone reports that my LightBoost instructions work for Samsung S23A950D's (just the 23", sadly not 27") ... I'm wondering if anyone has an Acer HN274HB to test the instructions on, as that's also a LightBoost monitor. Generally, as a rule of thumb, a monitor that supports "3D Vision 2", has LightBoost in it.

*List of LightBoost monitors on nVidia Website*
- Acer HN274HB

*Not listed on nVidia but reported to work*
- BENQ XL2411T (many confirmations, including my own)
- Samsung S23A950D (or S23A950) -- not documented by nVidia, but someone said LightBoost worked. Need multiple confirmations.


----------



## Swolern

The Samsung has a strobe light? I looked at the specs and their was nothing that states either Lightboost or any back strobe light. There is a tech on the Sammy listed as Magicbright3, I wonder if that could be it?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> The Samsung has a strobe light? I looked at the specs and their was nothing that states either Lightboost or any back strobe light. There is a tech on the Sammy listed as Magicbright3, I wonder if that could be it?


It's possible. Someone posted in the comments section of LightBoost HOWTO that the SA950 worked. But yes, we need more confirmations. Also, I did some google searching and that the newer models of S23A950D's appear to support nVidia 3D Vision 2 under the newest operating systems with the latest drivers -- at least through the EDID override. That's enough clue that there's some sort of LightBoost, even if Samsung doesn't advertise it (maybe because some criteria didn't meet nVidia's rules).

From what I believe, all displays that supports "nVidia 3D Vision 2" all have a strobe backlight feature, even if undocumented.

On the same subject, I'm wondering about DDC commands that enables LightBoost, because we need a utility to enable LightBoost on demand, independently of nVidia drivers.


----------



## Swolern

I owned a SAMSUNG S27A950D prior to my Asus. The 3d had so much more 3d ghosting compared to the Asus I find it hard to believe that it had a strobe light in its backlight.

That would be amazing if you found a way to enable Lighboost through DDC commands. That would mean all our AMD buddies could enjoy the 2d Lightboost effects also. I wish I could help you some but your display knowledge is much more extensive than mine.

Lightboost is one of the main reasons I'm staying with Nvidia cards right now. AMD cards scale so much better with 3&4-way GPU configurations. 3d Vision use to be my main concern, but Nvidia has been having extremely poor 3d vision support lately on new games, pissing me off!


----------



## Doubleome

I have a hard time getting a feeling of the zero motion blur at 120 FFPS 120 HZ.

Would it be the same as looking at an object when not moving the screen ?


----------



## Ansive

Yes, the picture quality should not drop at all when moving. (texture detail, readability, object edges)


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> Hmm. There is a tiny faint ghost image when moving something black on white background very fast. The ghost only trails behind the image 1mm at most and is very hard to see. Dont notice any ghosting in games. What you are describing sounds severe. Have you tried both 120hz and 144hz settings? If not mistaken the Lightboost can only coordinate up to 120hz. Do you see any of this in-game?


When in 2D lightboost mode on windows desktop using the driver override trick, the refresh rate only goes up to 120hz in windows settings anyway. And yeah it is quite a bit like 1-2cm ghosting, just moving a window at normal speed not very fast. In Chrome (with smooth scroll plug in thing) Just scrolling down cases like 2cm of ghosting on the lines separating forum posts!

It is visible in game but not clearly so, probably because you don't usually get obvious very dark to very light colour clashes in games? Anyway it's not intrusive in games unless I look for it. Just annoying mainly in Windows.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Your LightBoost may not be turned on --
> Can you go into your monitor adjustments and tell me if the "LightBoost" is adjustable in the monitor's mneus?
> If not, then that means your LightBoost is turned off via the graphics card -- try double checking the instructions.
> If it is adjustable, let's troubleshoot.


Yep it's adjustable. I have all the symptoms, screen dimmer, OSD shows "3D mode" and you can only adjust lightboost and contrast. Also fast moving text is clearly readable when you follow it (although looks jerky and blurry if you don't follow it exactly to speed with your eyes, that's normal I suppose?)

Anyway another issue I found, when the display switches to 3D lightboost mode (ie you start a game, get the 3D info text bottom right of screen and haven't pressed ctrl t yet), then the entire PC slows to a halt, mouse movement updates once a second or so, you have 1fps,and you have to hold down ctrl t to get it to register and switch to 2D mode as the PC is so unresponsive. All is fine once ctrl t works though. No fps hit or anything when it's properly in 2D lightboost.

This didn't happen with my VG278H I don't think, only with my VG278HE (with override inf file installed).

I have Nvidia control panel set to enable stereoscopic 3D, and set to "always". Used the inf file and the force lightboost registry file too.

And another thing, when moving a window on the desktop, straight edges get very jagged. Is that normal? Only while moving. Any straight edge whether in game or Windows desktop or anywhere.


----------



## rcfc89

So I have the Benq 2420TX with built in emitter. So I don't need the "inf" file correct? So basically I just follow the intructions from the 1st post in this thread correct? Stoked to see this in action. Also will I have to hit cntrl/t after every death in BF3? Or is this with just the Asus monitor.


----------



## Arc0s

I have the Benq and I only have to hit ctrl+t when the game starts after that light boost stays on and 3d off.


----------



## rcfc89

I tried it out and I personally don't like it. The frames turn down because 3d mode is enabled even though its on the lightboost only. The colors are off and after turning the graphics down to keep things over 120fps it overall looks like ****. I prefer the gorgeous colors and smoothness of 120+fps in Ultra 2d with lightboost off. I didn't see a difference at all. All that stood out was the bad colors to me. And when you jump in a helicopter or jet it looks terrible. Its not for me.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> When in 2D lightboost mode on windows desktop using the driver override trick, the refresh rate only goes up to 120hz in windows settings anyway. And yeah it is quite a bit like 1-2cm ghosting, just moving a window at normal speed not very fast. In Chrome (with smooth scroll plug in thing) Just scrolling down cases like 2cm of ghosting on the lines separating forum posts!


The ghosting on my vg278h is only 1-2 millimeters (not cm) that is a huge tail. Any its only noticeable at very fast motions in desktop (none in-game) and because i know what im looking for. I still think there is something wrong with your monitor.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> I tried it out and I personally don't like it. The colors are off and after turning the graphics down to keep things over 120fps it overall looks like ****. I prefer the gorgeous colors and smoothness of 120+fps in Ultra 2d with lightboost off. I didn't see a difference at all. All that stood out was the bad colors to me. And when you jump in a helicopter or jet it looks terrible. Its not for me.


Sorry to hear that. I did hear about some bad colors with the BenQ monitors. On my vg278h all i had to do is increase the contrast when in 2d Lighboost mode and colors are similar to reg 2d mode, just a little dimmer, but i like the look, and the smoothness outweighs everything else. Especially in BF3, its a big advantage, but i do play alot of AM close quarter style gameplay.
Quote:


> The frames turn down because 3d mode is enabled even though its on the lightboost only


If done correctly the framerate should be about the same in reg 2d vs 2d Lightboost. (as shown in my benchmark in the previous page)


----------



## forthedisplay

Hi

I'm thinking of CS:GO / Dota 2 mainly. I've got a GTX 580, and considering what I had on 1080p / I have @ 1440p, I should be able to hit the high frames. There is technically no issues to use the tweak on the 500-series, the only issue is that if you're not getting enough frames, it won't work properly, right?

The second question is, the tweak - it's only one time affair, and not something that you'll need to look around when you want to do different stuff?


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *forthedisplay*
> 
> Hi
> 
> I'm thinking of CS:GO / Dota 2 mainly. I've got a GTX 580, and considering what I had on 1080p / I have @ 1440p, I should be able to hit the high frames. There is technically no issues to use the tweak on the 500-series, the only issue is that if you're not getting enough frames, it won't work properly, right?


The 580 would work, but you must have a monitor with Lightboost (back strobe light hardware). Some games look good sub 120hz refresh rate, some dont, depends on the game.
Quote:


> The second question is, the tweak - it's only one time affair, and not something that you'll need to look around when you want to do different stuff?


Depends on which monitor and which tweak you apply. Some stay on continuously other you have to apply once every time you turn on the PC.


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> The ghosting on my vg278h is only 1-2 millimeters (not cm) that is a huge tail. Any its only noticeable at very fast motions in desktop (none in-game) and because i know what im looking for. I still think there is something wrong with your monitor.
> Sorry to hear that. I did hear about some bad colors with the BenQ monitors. On my vg278h all i had to do is increase the contrast when in 2d Lighboost mode and colors are similar to reg 2d mode, just a little dimmer, but i like the look, and the smoothness outweighs everything else. Especially in BF3, its a big advantage, but i do play alot of AM close quarter style gameplay.
> If done correctly the framerate should be about the same in reg 2d vs 2d Lightboost. (as shown in my benchmark in the previous page)


What are your frames with BF3. Black ops 2 and MW3 it runs fine and smooth but in BF3 if I run something low like 60 or 75 fps there is ghosting.

Also does the depth bar under NVCP enable stereoscopic 3d effect the smoothness and clarity?


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> What are your frames with BF3. Black ops 2 and MW3 it runs fine and smooth but in BF3 if I run something low like 60 or 75 fps there is ghosting.
> Also does the depth bar under NVCP enable stereoscopic 3d effect the smoothness and clarity?


3D depth bar adjustment only applies when in 3d mode. It adjusts the 2 pictures distance from each other to give a 3d picture more or less depth. This should not affect 2d Lightboost mode.

BF3 multiplayer is an extremely hard game to master performance wize at high FPS!!!! Not only is GPU scaling different from single player to multiplayer, but scaling is different from map to map. And also different from different Nvidia drivers, & different when BF3 updates the game.
Im running 3-way SLI right now @ 5880x1080(bezel corrected). The maps i have been playing lately are AK & AM dlc maps. Armored Kill i get 90-98% GPU utilization and my framerate is 110-170fps. Aftermath i get an average 70-80% GPU utilization so my framerate is 80-130fps. It does get a little choppy around 80fps, but never any ghosting visualized.

What monitor do you have?


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> 3D depth bar adjustment only applies when in 3d mode. It adjusts the 2 pictures distance from each other to give a 3d picture more or less depth. This should not affect 2d Lightboost mode.
> 
> BF3 multiplayer is an extremely hard game to master performance wize at high FPS!!!! Not only is GPU scaling different from single player to multiplayer, but scaling is different from map to map. And also different from different Nvidia drivers, & different when BF3 updates the game.
> Im running 3-way SLI right now @ 5880x1080(bezel corrected). The maps i have been playing lately are AK & AM dlc maps. Armored Kill i get 90-98% GPU utilization and my framerate is 110-170fps. Aftermath i get an average 70-80% GPU utilization so my framerate is 80-130fps. It does get a little choppy around 80fps, but never any ghosting visualized.
> 
> What monitor do you have?


27" vg278HE monitor. I love this monitor especially for older or less demanding games. As for BF3 I'm hoping to get another MSI 670 PE soon to get my frame rate up in bf3. But what I have noticed with this monitor is I guess because of the size and resolution with enough distance there is no need for MSAA in BF3. Still looks sharp and has nice graphics and very little if any jaggies. Worked for Blackops 2 as well but 2xmsaa is all that is needed. This allows for more frames.

But the drivers out now suck. Hopefully they fix them and drivers are a big reason I changed to Nvidia from AMD.


----------



## hamzatm

Anyone have a VG278HE working perfectly with lightboost, and what method did you use exactly?

I'm suspecting the VG278H inf file I'm using to override could be the problem. Or perhaps because I used the registry tweak in conjunction with the inf file. That could be what is causing the massive ghosting.

Anyway I'm considering buying an XL2420T or XL2411T, partly because 27" is a little big for me, any recommendations?


----------



## hamzatm

Sorry DP

Took some photos of the ghosting with my Android camera (Galaxy S2), not the best but you can see the ghosting in action:









Stripes on the screen are due to my camera not being fast enough to capture 1/12th of a second, but if you look at the car at the top which is moving from right to left pretty fast, you can (hopefully) see the ghosting trails. It's most noticeable on the text in the speech box. It shoes up very faintly in the photo, but on screen that sort of ghosting is very visible.

Also 1-2cm I mentioned before is definitely off, but it gets to 1cm no problem as is visible.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> 27" vg278HE monitor. I love this monitor especially for older or less demanding games. As for BF3 I'm hoping to get another MSI 670 PE soon to get my frame rate up in bf3. But what I have noticed with this monitor is I guess because of the size and resolution with enough distance there is no need for MSAA in BF3. Still looks sharp and has nice graphics and very little if any jaggies. Worked for Blackops 2 as well but 2xmsaa is all that is needed. This allows for more frames.
> 
> But the drivers out now suck. Hopefully they fix them and drivers are a big reason I changed to Nvidia from AMD.


Trust me i have been chasing BF3 performance for almost a year now. Nvidia is not all to blame. Battlelog and BF3 game engine are much to blame as they are riddled with bugs with many PC configurations. Many times when Dice updated BF3 or battlelog the GPU performance and utilization will change, and its usually for the worse. And Nvidia is the one that has to come behind them and try to adjust the drivers again so they will play nice with BF3s new updates.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Sorry DP
> 
> Took some photos of the ghosting with my Android camera (Galaxy S2), not the best but you can see the ghosting in action:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stripes on the screen are due to my camera not being fast enough to capture 1/12th of a second, but if you look at the car at the top which is moving from right to left pretty fast, you can (hopefully) see the ghosting trails. It's most noticeable on the text in the speech box. It shoes up very faintly in the photo, but on screen that sort of ghosting is very visible.
> 
> Also 1-2cm I mentioned before is definitely off, but it gets to 1cm no problem as is visible.


I have heard of the Lightboost strobe light not correlating well with the LCDs and causing this effect of bad trailing effect.

Your pic is really hard to see. This pic was taken from a BenQ monitor. They did testing on another website. They stated there was zero visible ghosting trail with XL2411T. He did get a pic with a high speed camera. There is a faint ghost there, but stated was not visible with the naked eye, and only visable in this magnified paused state. This is similar to what i have found also with my VG278H, with just a tad more ghost effect. But again i see zero of this while gaming.


----------



## hamzatm

Sorry about the pic, the ghosting isn't coming up very well in the pic. But if you look at the top car, the text box where the text is; you can see that the text has ghosted (just look the right of NEED and MORE) pretty significantly against the background. And yeah in real life you can see that ghosting very clearly.

I'm pretty sure I have exactly what you mentioned, the lightboost strobe not correlating well with the LCD. Do you have any idea how I can fix that? Reset or recalibrate the inverter or something?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Sorry about the pic, the ghosting isn't coming up very well in the pic. But if you look at the top car, the text box where the text is; you can see that the text has ghosted (just look the right of NEED and MORE) pretty significantly against the background. And yeah in real life you can see that ghosting very clearly.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I have exactly what you mentioned, the lightboost strobe not correlating well with the LCD. Do you have any idea how I can fix that? Reset or recalibrate the inverter or something?


There are two causes that I am aware. The ghosting is not blurred (still zero motion blur); it's a "sharp ghost" effect but the ghost should become invisible in normal gaming use.

(bad situation) I had a strange situation recently. Two times, I've seen a situation where LightBoost was running while the monitor refreshed at only 60 frames per second, causing a problematic effect. This went away when I disabled and then re-enabled LightBoost, and made sure that framerate was actually running at 120fps, instead of 60fps. Hitting Control-T repeatedly also seemed to fix one of these situations, while repeatedly enabling/disabling the "Enable Stereoscopic 3D" checkbox fixed the other.
-- The bug I encountered above, would yield two equally clear double images during motion. (the [email protected] effect)

(normal situation) The ultrafaint "sharp ghost" is simply the remaining crosstalk between refreshes. This is much worse without LB -- it is more invisible than with LB on. Try turning on/off LB and running PixPerAn with it. If LB doesn't eliminate 95-99% of the trailing (>99% on a 1ms BENQ XL2411T), there is a problem. It is the remnants of the panel's pixel persistence limitations, and the newer 1ms panels (BENQ XL2411T) are even better in this regards, since those have nearly zero 3D crosstalk.
-- The ultrafaint "sharp trailing image" is a normal limitation but should be 95-99+% gone (compared to LB off). It is equivalent in intensity to 3D crosstalk (leakage of frames between eyes).


----------



## hamzatm

Thanks, I get exactly as you said, a sharp and clear ghost trail. It's not ultra faint though, it's actually very noticeable on the desktop, when doing anything at all.

But yeah also it isn't that noticeable in normal gaming use, and no double vision thing so I don't believe it's the 60Hz problem.

I'll try toggling LB and running pixperan as you said.

Update: doesn't make any difference. The ghosting is super visible in LB mode but not as much in normal mode. It's definitely 120Hz. With LB the image is super clear but so is the ghost trail.

With LB disabled and at 144Hz its blurry as expected, and with faint ghosting at maximum TraceFree setting. The ghosting is very faint not like during LB where it is vivid. Also by reducing Trace Free you can reduce the ghost trail, but tbh it isn't intrusive at all.

Whereas the LB ghosting is massively intrusive.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Thanks, I get exactly as you said, a sharp and clear ghost trail. It's not ultra faint though, it's actually very noticeable on the desktop, when doing anything at all.


Interesting observation. Do you have 3D glasses? If the artifact you see is the same intensity as 3D crosstalk while wearing 3D glasses, then that's the unavoidable crosstalk limitation -- the pixels are essentially only 95-99% of the way to their final value when the backlight strobes for certain color transitions (e.g. black transiting towards white). I haven't found it objectionable since on my VG278H it is very faint for most GtG color pairs and I mainly use it during video games. The faint remnant does become more noticeable if you scroll black text on a white background.

On the BENQ XL2411T that I received from the UK, this sharp-ghost artifact (crosstalk) is far fainter. It looks about 10x fainter than the ASUS VG278H for most GtG transitions. I can really tell that the new 1ms panels make a huge difference for LightBoost; the response-time-compensation is very LightBoost-optimized. If you are bothered by the sharp-ghost artifact, the XL2411T gets my recommendation.


----------



## hamzatm

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll keep the 2411t in mind.

I do have the 3D glasses that I got with my VG278H (i have both the VG278H and VG278HE at the moment) but I don't have an IR emitter (obviously the emitter for the 278H is built in) so would the glasses still work?

Anyway I switched to the VG278H, turned on LB and it's better than the HE. I still get the strange crosstalk ghosting but much less vivid. I could pretty much ignore it in Windows. It's there as soon as you look for it though, but now only in certain conditions, ie light and dark contrasting.

Definitely an improvement!

I can test the HE with glasses eventually (for the sake of science!) but at the moment I just don't want to go through the hassle of switching screens on my tiny desk


----------



## hamzatm

OK I've tested the VG278H vs VG278HE side-by-side in 3D and 2D LB and here are the results:

*VG278HE* screen has reddish tint in LB mode, darker too - perhaps the redness makes it look a little darker?
Ghosting is a vivid purple or white (depending on whether it ghosts a dark colour on light background or ghosts a light colour on a dark background). Is very noticeable, jumps out at you - can't fail to notice it. Stands out stark against the background.
When moving straight lines (e.g. vertical lines moving to the right and left), they fuzz badly, have blue/red fuzzy tints to them and basically looks terrible, like white noise on a TV set. Most noticeable with a vertical blue/red edge.

*VG278H* screen looks natural and bright in LB mode
Ghosting from dark colours is faint and not that noticeable unless you look for it. It is unobtrusive. Because the colour of it is so light it blends in with the background.
Straight lines move smoothly like they should, and appear like straight lines. No fuzziness to be seen.

I also tested them in *3D using the 3D test scene and glasses*. The H had light smooth crosstalk that was pretty faint. The HE had crosstalk that was also faint but more vivid than the H. Very tiny difference though.
The most profound difference was that the crosstalk of the H was smoothed out, it looked like high resolution shading, as if it had been anti aliased. The crosstalk on the HE looked like it hadn't been aliased, you could see the fuzzy blocks making up the crosstalk. This is similar to the smooth vs fuzzy moving-straight-lines phenomena described above.

My 278HE could be faulty, I don't know. They are on the same settings exactly, at least the settings you can change in 3D (lightboost) mode anyway.


----------



## CallsignVega

Not sure what it is about this reddish tint on some Lightboost monitors in Lightboost mode. Was enough for me to disregard them. The 144 Hz 24" BenQ had it pretty bad.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> OK I've tested the VG278H vs VG278HE side-by-side in 3D and 2D LB and here are the results:
> 
> *VG278HE* screen has reddish tint in LB mode, darker too - perhaps the redness makes it look a little darker?
> Ghosting is a vivid purple or white (depending on whether it ghosts a dark colour on light background or ghosts a light colour on a dark background). Is very noticeable, jumps out at you - can't fail to notice it. Stands out stark against the background.
> When moving straight lines (e.g. vertical lines moving to the right and left), they fuzz badly, have blue/red fuzzy tints to them and basically looks terrible, like white noise on a TV set. Most noticeable with a vertical blue/red edge.
> 
> *VG278H* screen looks natural and bright in LB mode
> Ghosting from dark colours is faint and not that noticeable unless you look for it. It is unobtrusive. Because the colour of it is so light it blends in with the background.
> Straight lines move smoothly like they should, and appear like straight lines. No fuzziness to be seen.
> 
> I also tested them in *3D using the 3D test scene and glasses*. The H had light smooth crosstalk that was pretty faint. The HE had crosstalk that was also faint but more vivid than the H. Very tiny difference though.
> The most profound difference was that the crosstalk of the H was smoothed out, it looked like high resolution shading, as if it had been anti aliased. The crosstalk on the HE looked like it hadn't been aliased, you could see the fuzzy blocks making up the crosstalk. This is similar to the smooth vs fuzzy moving-straight-lines phenomena described above.
> 
> My 278HE could be faulty, I don't know. They are on the same settings exactly, at least the settings you can change in 3D (lightboost) mode anyway.


Thanks for the side by side comparison. +Rep








There must be something wrong with your HE. I sure hope they are not all like that.

I feel the same way about the VG278H. I am very happy with the Lightboost mode. So much that i will not game in 2d without it. (Now if i could just get all games to run at 5760x1080 @ 120fps is the problem)
As far as the color. I actually prefer the Lightboost mode look(with contrast increased to 92). Compared to regular 2d mode where the screen is brighter, but the colors are also a little washed out. The dimmer lightboost mode actually makes the blacks a deeper level and gives the image quality a little more pop. On the downside the bright colors are not as vivid in regular 2d, but its a minimal difference. And i see zero ghosting while gaming.
Also no reddish tinting here on my three VG278Hs. All of this is of course outweighed by the smoothest and clearest motion gaming i have ever witnessed.


----------



## whybother

LEDs are binned in the same way as CPUs. You will get different backlight quality even between identical monitors.

LightBoost is achieved by over-driving the LED backlight with more power, which will naturally change it's colour output.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whybother*
> 
> LEDs are binned in the same way as CPUs. You will get different backlight quality even between identical monitors.
> 
> LightBoost is achieved by over-driving the LED backlight with more power, which will naturally change it's colour output.


So I guess this explains why some monitors have a lot of colour shift and others have hardly any.


----------



## hamzatm

Mine and Swolern's (3) VG278H seem to be perfect. So far I know Vegas 144hz BenQ and my 144hz HE both have the reddish tint problem. Could be a common factor

In other news I just hooked up my old U2311H and boy is it beautiful. Lets you truly appreciate how good the IPS colours are. Right now I feel like if you don't play FPS I would recommend IPS and IPS alone! Of course if you can sacrifice the smooth mouse movement on the desktop too..


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Mine and Swolern's (3) VG278H seem to be perfect. So far I know Vegas 144hz BenQ and my 144hz HE both have the reddish tint problem. Could be a common factor
> 
> In other news I just hooked up my old U2311H and boy is it beautiful. Lets you truly appreciate how good the IPS colours are. Right now I feel like if you don't play FPS I would recommend IPS and IPS alone! Of course if you can sacrifice the smooth mouse movement on the desktop too..


I agree. A TN panel is hard to swallow after using other LCD types. Especially ones with matte coatings. (The Samsung TN's with gloss coating had a pretty good image).


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> OK I've tested the VG278H vs VG278HE side-by-side in 3D and 2D LB and here are the results:
> 
> *VG278HE* screen has reddish tint in LB mode, darker too - perhaps the redness makes it look a little darker?
> Ghosting is a vivid purple or white (depending on whether it ghosts a dark colour on light background or ghosts a light colour on a dark background). Is very noticeable, jumps out at you - can't fail to notice it. Stands out stark against the background.
> When moving straight lines (e.g. vertical lines moving to the right and left), they fuzz badly, have blue/red fuzzy tints to them and basically looks terrible, like white noise on a TV set. Most noticeable with a vertical blue/red edge.
> 
> *VG278H* screen looks natural and bright in LB mode
> Ghosting from dark colours is faint and not that noticeable unless you look for it. It is unobtrusive. Because the colour of it is so light it blends in with the background.
> Straight lines move smoothly like they should, and appear like straight lines. No fuzziness to be seen.


Wow, I did not anticipate such a difference between the VG278 and the VG278H! Shocking, indeed. Not even a defective panel?

If the ghosting you see has LOTS of very intense checkerboard-pixel effects, that's a more unbalanced LCD inversion (explanation) than usual. (LCD inversion patterns are usually vertically-stretched checkerboard patterns on most monitors). These leads to very harsh appearances in moving lines that moves at an odd number pixels horizontally per second. (e.g. a 1-pixel-thick line moving at 5 or 7 pixels per second horizontally). You can load the Lagom LCD inversion/pixel-walk pattern then drag the window around -- you'll see a lot of strange flickering effects in some of the fine-pixel checkerboard. My BENQ XL2411T, interestingly, has much less effects than the VG278H, despite the BENQ having a crimson tint.

For your VG278HE, does these differences persist even during 100Hz LightBoost?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whybother*
> 
> LEDs are binned in the same way as CPUs. You will get different backlight quality even between identical monitors.
> 
> LightBoost is achieved by over-driving the LED backlight with more power, which will naturally change it's colour output.


Good theory, but....no.

I've successfully determined that this is NOT the cause. What I have been able to determine, for my BENQ XL2411T crimson tint, is that this is a digital modification of the red/green/blue gamma curve. I'm not sure why. For example, black is completely neutral (no reddish tint in a black screen). Also, adjust Contrast adjusts the intensity of the tint (some colors become a little yellowish). Perhaps this is a tint-compensation for 3D shutter glasses, to make colors look better looking through 3D shutter glasses -- which might have a greenish tint -- and a magenta tint compensates for this. LightBoost was designed originally for 3D.

BTW, it was possible to digitally undo some of the reddish tint via a custom display profile on the PC side of things. The reddish tint on my BENQ XL2411T is gone (though I wish I had 10-bit LUT's rather than 8-bit LUT's!)

Other than that problem, the BENQ XL2411T (1ms) is distinctly better at having no motion trail -- it has nearly zero crosstalk between refreshes between most GtG colors.


----------



## GarTheConquer

Quick n00b question... is this hack do-able with an AMD card? My guess is no. No 3D = no hack?


----------



## PiERiT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Good theory, but....no.
> 
> I've successfully determined that this is NOT the cause. What I have been able to determine, for my BENQ XL2411T crimson tint, is that this is a digital modification of the red/green/blue gamma curve. I'm not sure why. For example, black is completely neutral (no reddish tint in a black screen). Also, adjust Contrast adjusts the intensity of the tint (some colors become a little yellowish). Perhaps this is a tint-compensation for 3D shutter glasses, to make colors look better looking through 3D shutter glasses -- which might have a greenish tint -- and a magenta tint compensates for this. LightBoost was designed originally for 3D.
> 
> BTW, it was possible to digitally undo some of the reddish tint via a custom display profile on the PC side of things. The reddish tint on my BENQ XL2411T is gone (though I wish I had 10-bit LUT's rather than 8-bit LUT's!)
> 
> Other than that problem, the BENQ XL2411T (1ms) is distinctly better at having no motion trail -- it has nearly zero crosstalk between refreshes between most GtG colors.


I'm looking to buy a BenQ soon. Mind sharing your color profile? I know a profile won't necessarily look the same on every monitor, but it's a start.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Wow, I did not anticipate such a difference between the VG278 and the VG278H! Shocking, indeed. Not even a defective panel?
> 
> If the ghosting you see has LOTS of very intense checkerboard-pixel effects, that's a more unbalanced LCD inversion (explanation) than usual. (LCD inversion patterns are usually vertically-stretched checkerboard patterns on most monitors). These leads to very harsh appearances in moving lines that moves at an odd number pixels horizontally per second. (e.g. a 1-pixel-thick line moving at 5 or 7 pixels per second horizontally). You can load the Lagom LCD inversion/pixel-walk pattern then drag the window around -- you'll see a lot of strange flickering effects in some of the fine-pixel checkerboard. My BENQ XL2411T, interestingly, has much less effects than the VG278H, despite the BENQ having a crimson tint.
> 
> For your VG278HE, does these differences persist even during 100Hz LightBoost?


I am not entirely certain that it isn't defective, but the 2D functions and 3D functions all look and work fine (or as close to fine that I don't feel there is any problem with them), the only issues appear with the LightBoost hack. I mean I didn't notice the crimson tint until I stood the thing side-to-side with my VG278H - for all I know the VG278H has a negative crimson tint!









Thanks for the info about LCD inversion. I can have a check with 100Hz LightBoost, probably report back in a few days.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> I mean I didn't notice the crimson tint until I stood the thing side-to-side with my VG278H


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PiERiT*
> 
> I'm looking to buy a BenQ soon. Mind sharing your color profile? I know a profile won't necessarily look the same on every monitor, but it's a start.


*The BENQ XL2411T Crimson Fix
(may work with VG278HE)*

Zero crimson tint with BENQ LightBoost!
On the subject of BENQ color calibration, I cancel out the crimson tint via nVidia Control Panel, by doing the following:

*Monitor OSD*
Monitor's Contrast Setting = 48 .... (NOTE: Not applicable to ASUS)

*nVidia Control Panel - "Adjust Desktop Color Settings"*
Adjust them individually, R, G, B.
---
R Contrast = 30%
G Contrast = 50%
B Contrast = 30%
---
R Brightness = 10%
G Brightness = 50%
B Brightness = 10%
---
R,G,B Gamma = 1.05 (...or a higher value, but set all of them to the same value).

*Test Patterns Used*
-- Lagom Contrast Pattern
-- Lagom Black Level


----------



## hamzatm

Thanks a lot for that, I'll be sure to try it soon!


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Thanks a lot for that, I'll be sure to try it soon!


I just spent another hour experimenting with more adjustments, and have come up with even better values that improves the bottom-end grayscale and tint during off-axis viewing:

*The BENQ XL2411T Crimson Fix (IMPROVED)*

Zero crimson tint with BENQ LightBoost!
On the subject of BENQ color calibration, I cancel out the crimson tint via nVidia Control Panel, by doing the following:

*Via Monitor Menus*
Monitor's Contrast Setting = 65 .... (If using nVidia Gamma 1.10)

*Via nVidia Control Panel - "Adjust Desktop Color Settings"*
Adjust them individually, R, G, B.
---
R Contrast = 30%
G Contrast = 45%
B Contrast = 30%
---
R Brightness = 10%
G Brightness = 40%
B Brightness = 10%
---
R,G,B Gamma = 1.10

Make sure to readjust Monitor OSD contrast everytime you change Gamma. nVidia Gamma 1.10 worked best with a monitor OSD Contrast of 65.
With these settings, I can see the difference between RGB(0,0,0) and RGB(1,1,1), without a wrongly tinted color in backgrounds or in dim colors.

*Test Patterns Used*
-- Lagom Contrast Pattern
-- Lagom Black Level


----------



## PiERiT

I was about to pull the trigger on a BenQ when I saw this (clicky) for $100 less.

Anyone have one of these? If not I may snag it and post my results.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PiERiT*
> 
> I was about to pull the trigger on a BenQ when I saw this (clicky) for $100 less.
> 
> Anyone have one of these? If not I may snag it and post my results.


Whao! This monitor just released. Awesome price! Cant wait to hear some results.


----------



## Arc0s

I ordered mine from amazon should be here on February 4th, I can't wait to try light boost on it and see how it does compared to my previous benq xl2420tx.


----------



## hamzatm

I tried 100Hz lightboost, it has exactly the same ghosting effect. Also tried the anti crimson tint settings posted above, it made the monitor look super green - perhaps it isn't a red tint I'm seeing then? Stuff definitely looks pink and darker on the HE.

To be honest the ghosting looks like you have overdrive on waaaay to high, with agressive light/dark coronas visible.

Regarding colour, in the Lagom full screen Inversion test the first image up (current: 1) the HE looks green. Yep,dark green. Whereas the H shows the image as grey which I presume is correct?

In the 11-box pixelwalk test, box 2a and 2b flicker between grey, purple and green!! Whereas they correctly stay grey on the H. Crazy colour problems..


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PiERiT*
> 
> I was about to pull the trigger on a BenQ when I saw this (clicky) for $100 less.
> 
> Anyone have one of these? If not I may snag it and post my results.


Cool, just ordered one to test out. That is a fabulous price for the new 144 Hz 24" Asus.


----------



## MenacingTuba

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Cool, just ordered one to test out. That is a fabulous price for the new 144 Hz 24" Asus.


I hereby charge you with the dangerous task of performing and input lag test vs. your Sony FW900 and XL2411T. Failure to perform this task will result in death, note that this is not a threat. We will all die at some point in the future.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> I tried 100Hz lightboost, it has exactly the same ghosting effect. Also tried the anti crimson tint settings posted above, it made the monitor look super green - perhaps it isn't a red tint I'm seeing then? Stuff definitely looks pink and darker on the HE.


The numbers are optimized for BENQ XL2411T's. It's possible that adjustments needs to be very different for the ASUS VG278HE.
Quote:


> To be honest the ghosting looks like you have overdrive on waaaay to high, with agressive light/dark coronas visible.


Sounds like the VG278HE uses very different overdrive settings than VG278H. The RTC needs to be optimized so that the strobe flash occurs when the pixels are near its final value. Sometimes they have to use aggressive RTC, but that is not seen by the human eye as long as that is kept in the dark. Apparently, it doesn't seem to be as well-optimized on the VG278HE as the VG278H (if it's not a defective panel)
Quote:


> Regarding colour, in the Lagom full screen Inversion test the first image up (current: 1) the HE looks green. Yep,dark green. Whereas the H shows the image as grey which I presume is correct?


Correct, that's the correct color. A dark-green inversion pattern is unusual; do you have access to another VG278HE to determine if it's just simply a defective panel (it might be normal, but I'm now rather curious), or a lower-quality panel.
Quote:


> In the 11-box pixelwalk test, box 2a and 2b flicker between grey, purple and green!! Whereas they correctly stay grey on the H. Crazy colour problems..


Yes, excessively flickering inversion patterns are bad. The BENQ XL2411T is actually pretty good, much better than my VG278H.

Interesting to hear your observations.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Cool, just ordered one to test out. That is a fabulous price for the new 144 Hz 24" Asus.


I can't wait to hear your VG248QE test results. I suspect it will be roughly about the same LightBoost as the BENQ XL2411T, although it may require a very different color calibration to cancel out any LightBoost-specific tinting effects.

I took more than 2 hours to come up with BENQ adjustment results. I used to calibrate home theater displays, so I know how to set the black and white points by eye, and find out where the clipping points are, and maximize the greyscale range. A Spyder would help though. But you can also, additionally, try using Windows 8 Display Calibration utility, to compensate for the crimson tint, too. I did that, but I did even better when I was using the Lagom patterns.


----------



## MenacingTuba

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> .


Just get an i1 display pro and download HCFR (free). You can create a 3D mode ICC profile with the i1dp's included software for others and verify what is wrong with the colors with HCFR.


----------



## mdrejhon

One thing to know is that LightBoost is designed to boost brightness during 3D Vision, and one of the things that apparently is being done in some of these monitors, is pushing upwards the black level of LCD's, in a way that's impossible to adjust using the monitor's OSD or via Windows Display Calibration / nVidia Control Panel. This reduces the contrast ratio somewhat. I think it also helps response time compensation since it needs to be well-optimized to work well with the LightBoost strobes. I've posted a long post about this to the pcmonitors.info contact (PCM2) in the overclockers.co.uk version of this thread and hope that computer monitor makers will follow suit to allow more adjustments.
Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Mark Rejhon;23649429*
> As you're PCM, I want to make the following recommendations to future monitor manufacturers.
> 
> *A Preliminary Public Call To Monitor Manufacturers*
> 
> Past strobe backlights were mostly worthless (e.g. year 2006 BENQ "AMA-Z" that flickered annoyingly at 60Hz and reduced motion blur by only a few percent). Monitor manufacturers are kind of leery about strobe backlights ever since then. What has changed is that today's strobe backlights are vastly superior and yield a rather huge motion blur elimination (when used with panels that can virtually completely erase pixel persistence between refreshes) The cost:benefit ratio has changed dramatically to the point where this is finally a worthwhile (and "free") feature that can also be built into existing 3D monitors.
> 
> *Monitor Picture Adjustments Are Disabled During LightBoost*
> These are presently the assumed reasons why this is happening:
> (1) Precisely calibrated response-time compensation (pixel response acceleration technologies) is necessary for maximum compatibility with strobe backlights, for correct timing of strobe backlight in the pixel response curve. This often requires blacks and white points to be precisely limited.
> (2) Enabling picture adjustments in the monitor can interfere with the RTC curve, and cause crosstalk problems.
> (3) Contrast ratio is greatly reduced during LightBoost.
> -- The black level is often bumped up slightly above true LCD black level. (This can optimize RTC efficiency for full BTW / WTG pixel transitions.)
> -- The white level is often bumped below true LCD white level. (ditto).
> (4) It's possible this is part of an nVidia recommendation, especially from earlier models of LightBoost monitors that had poorer 3D crosstalk.
> (5) Brightness can't be adjusted, but you can still control backlight brightness via the LightBoost pulse length ("LightBoost" adjustment). Lower LightBoost settings (other than "OFF") results in shorter pulses and even sharper fast motion.
> (6) Fewer user complaints. People just want 3D Stereoscopic to work, with maximum image quality.
> 
> *This May Be An Obsolete Approach Now*
> (1) Today's 1ms monitors such as BENQ XL2411T is now more forgiving for picture adjustments during LightBoost. Give a little more flexibility, please, nVidia & BENQ & ASUS. Some of us can understand the tradeoffs, and share recommended settings.
> (2) Provide a simple preset for color compensation (e.g. adjust crimson tint)
> (3) There are more and more new motion tests coming, which will help make it easier and more popular for consumers to demand better motion blur reduction. It becomes a necessary selling feature to optimize strobe backlight to also work during 2D.
> (4) nVidia might not prefer it to be called "LightBoost" (because it does not "boost" light brightness during 2D use), but perhaps call it "CRT Emulator" or "Zero Motion Blur Mode" or "Strobe Backlight"
> (5) If interference with RTC is a concern, permit an Advanced Mode that re-enables picture adjustments during LightBoost, with a "WARNING! This will degrade stereoscopic 3D!"
> (6) Improved education and advertising. The Blur Busters Blog is helping out here, the world's first web blog exclusively focussed on on LCD motion blur elimination technologies! The upcoming motion tests (easy Mac/PC compatible PixPerAn replacement) will revolutionize user education. My motion tests even allow the human eye to see improvement from 0.5ms strobes versus 1.0ms strobes versus 2.0ms strobes, so manufacturers need to be warned that they need to step up their game!
> 
> *Recommendations To Monitor Makers For The Future*
> (1) Easier 2D usage of strobe backlight
> (2) Allow shorter strobes (1.0 or even 0.5 millisecond strobes, pretty please!)
> (3) Even brighter LED's. (to prevent ultra-dim picture during short strobes)
> (4) Higher CRI LED's. (for better color)
> (5) In PWM mode, include capacitor filtering to eliminate PWM eyestrain during dimmer screen modes.
> (6) Allow us to adjust colors
> (7) Allow us to adjust blacks fully to fullest LCD black.
> (8) Allow higher Hz (e.g. LightBoost at 144Hz). This will start to affect crosstalk, but the new 1ms panels are now fast-enough-again that 144Hz strobed should be fine without objectionable crosstalk. 72Hz-per-eye will be a big improvement for 3D glasses.
> (9) In higher end models, include a decay-softener. Capacitor to soften out the PWM pulses, whenever LightBoost is not used. This is pretty cheap to add to a high-end 120 Hz monitor. Less eyestrain during 360Hz and 432Hz PWM.
> (10) (OPTIONAL) If all of this is unappealing, please at least include an API that allows this to be adjusted. e.g. publicly published custom VESA DDC/CI custom MCCS commands to allow us to write 3rd party applications to reprogram the strobe backlight behavior -- we've trying to search for the command now from VESA MCCS Version 3 using softMCCS. That way, advanced users can download the utility to customize this feature without confusing the everyday users of the monitor with very confusing OSD menus.
> 
> Obviously, nVidia probably has to be onboard because it's a collaboration between nVidia and monitor manufacturers. This represents an early (preliminary) public call to monitor manufacturers that will become louder once I've released my motion test software app (21st century PixPerAn replacement), which will probably gradually increase end-user demand for zero motion blur gaming LCD's that are as flicker-free as possible. (pcmonitors.info has early beta access to it now)
Click to expand...


----------



## miahallen

I just wanted to jump in here and let you all know that I've been watching this thread with great interest. I ordered three VG278HEs last week, and I'm expecting them soon, I'm most interested in 3D....but I'm sure I'll use this 2D trick for a few of my games. Hopefully my panels all look good and don't have the issues hamzatm has been describing.


----------



## Harrywang

Hey guys I am looking into a new monitor. I am a very competitive gamer. Is it worth it for me to buy a monitor that can do this? Is it worth doing? If so, what is the best monitor to do this for? Thanks!


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Harrywang*
> 
> Hey guys I am looking into a new monitor. I am a very competitive gamer. Is it worth it for me to buy a monitor that can do this? Is it worth doing? If so, what is the best monitor to do this for? Thanks!


Worth every penny for me. I could never go back to a 60hz monitor for online gaming. Especially in 1st P Shooters, 2d Lightboost more than doubles the clarity of motion, to make it much easier and faster to spot and take out opponents. And my k/d ratio shows, bigtime!

The Asus VG248QE just release, best bang for the buck @ $279 at Newegg. It looks to be very good, but no one has reviewed it yet, that Im aware of, in 2d Lightboost mode. My 3 Asus VG278H have all been spectacular.


----------



## hamzatm

Agree, apparently the panel in the VG248QE or XL2411T is excellent. 24" is a good size for competitive gaming too


----------



## Harrywang

Thanks for the replies guys! I guess I would need to wait for more reviews before I can make a decision. Right now it really does come down to the VG248QE vs XL2411T. Granted I only have a 560 TI but I play all my competitive games in lower graphics for the smoother framerate and other advantages.


----------



## iBzzz

Hi all,

I've recently got myself a xl2411t and its great but if I try to use the lightboost hack it my pc blue screens when I click apply in the nvidia control panel. Any ideas? I've tried two different monitor inf files and both the most recent nvidia drivers (whql and beta). Windows 8. Gfx card is a 560 ti.


----------



## hamzatm

I think Windows 8 may be the issue but for the life of me can't think why this should be happening to you..


----------



## Swolern

Ive tested and there is a performance hit when using the Contol T method for 2d Lightboost in Crysis 3 beta. Its about 15-20% hit which is as same as the performance hit when gaming in 3d. But it is beta and i dont have Crysis 2 installed to test.


----------



## Doubleome

Just got the VG248QE out of the box and tried the 2D lightboost but I cant tell a difference I think.

Had a 120 hz previous to this so I know how 120 hz 120 fps feels,

And when I tried the 2D lightboost with the VG248QW I did the following.

-Install 3D stuff with emitter enabled.
- Auto launch game in 3D.
- CTRL-T to turn it off.
- No noticable change.

In the screen menu it says 3D mode with Nvidia lightboost, I can change this from off, to max in increments but all it does is make the screen brighter when I get closer to the max. I cant really notice a difference between off or on smoothness wise.

Did I forget something ? Nowhere in the Nvidia control panel can I find anything about the 2D lightboost. The reason I think its not working is that in 2D it becomes brighter when I turn Lightboost to the max, while everyone says it goes dimmer plus changes the color a bit. But for me it just becomes brighter without a color shift.


----------



## Doubleome

Edit and removed.

Not sure how it just posted twice.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Doubleome*
> 
> Just got the VG248QE out of the box and tried the 2D lightboost but I cant tell a difference I think.
> 
> Had a 120 hz previous to this so I know how 120 hz 120 fps feels,
> 
> And when I tried the 2D lightboost with the VG248QW I did the following.
> 
> -Install 3D stuff with emitter enabled.
> - Auto launch game in 3D.
> - CTRL-T to turn it off.
> - No noticable change.
> 
> In the screen menu it says 3D mode with Nvidia lightboost, I can change this from off, to max in increments but all it does is make the screen brighter when I get closer to the max. I cant really notice a difference between off or on smoothness wise.
> 
> Did I forget something ? Nowhere in the Nvidia control panel can I find anything about the 2D lightboost. The reason I think its not working is that in 2D it becomes brighter when I turn Lightboost to the max, while everyone says it goes dimmer plus changes the color a bit. But for me it just becomes brighter without a color shift.


If your pic gets brighter after you control T then your monitor is going back to normal 2d mode.


----------



## Swolern

Try this method in Nvidia Control Panel

-checked enable stereoscopic 3d box
-> run Wizard
-> run test stereoscopic 3d in N control panel
-> set refresh rate to 120hz & select Apply refresh rate to all games box
-> launch test app
-> exit test app
-> uncheck Enable stereoscopic 3d box
-> apply



Monitor should stay dark after exiting app if done correctly. Increase contrast settings on monitor for brightness. I set my contrast to 92 on my vg278h for 2d Lightboost.


----------



## Doubleome

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> If your pic gets brighter after you control T then your monitor is going back to normal 2d mode.


Thats why I figured it isnt working correctly. The physical screen menu says its on, and by making it higher it becomes brighter but not a physical change in smoothness.

Any way to really ensure its running in 2D mode ?


----------



## CallsignVega

I've noticed while trying to get 2D Lightboost to work it can be very finicky. By the way, the jump from 144 Hz non-LB to 120 Hz LB is hugely apparent, so I doubt you have LB on. Really the easiest way to check if LB is on is check the monitor menu, virtually everything will be greyed out in LB mode. The BenQ even tells you it's in LB mode. I just got my VG248QE and will hopefully get to play around with it this weekend. I think it can be generally accepted though that the two 24" 1ms Lightboost monitors will be superior to their 27" counterparts.


----------



## whybother

In the event you're not sure if LightBoost is running just fire up PixPerAn. If you can read the scrolling text (F4) above a speed of 12 (the highest ever registered on an LCD) then it's enabled.


----------



## Doubleome

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whybother*
> 
> In the event you're not sure if LightBoost is running just fire up PixPerAn. If you can read the scrolling text (F4) above a speed of 12 (the highest ever registered on an LCD) then it's enabled.


Im using a emitter so I wont be able to test it right ? 2D lightboost wont be enabled in windows or ?

Just tried the program. After exiting BF3 in my screen menu it tells me Lightboost is enabled.

But reading the text on a speed of 12 is doable but nearly impossible. It started to get blurry on speed 4-5. Changing the lightboost from off to max in increments only changed the brightness zero change in readability.

Hope Ill get it to work soon, high hopes still.


----------



## whybother

An emitter just means you don't need to use the INF method.

You should be able to read well into the 20s in PixPerAn with LightBoost enabled. Some have reached 28, although your neck muscles may require some warming up first


----------



## Doubleome

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whybother*
> 
> An emitter just means you don't need to use the INF method.
> 
> You should be able to read well into the 20s in PixPerAn with LightBoost enabled. Some have reached 28, although your neck muscles may require some warming up first


Then its prolly not working for me.. yet I hope


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whybother*
> 
> An emitter just means you don't need to use the INF method.
> 
> You should be able to read well into the 20s in PixPerAn with LightBoost enabled. Some have reached 28, although your neck muscles may require some warming up first


I got up to 30 on my vg278h! But only the first 5 letters. It's readable, but the letters are scrolling so fast that every letter you have to start again at the beginning of the segment just to find your placing, it was just impossible for me to finish the whole segment in the alloted time. And your not joking your neck, lol.

I want to see if Vega can do it. Challenged!







the 1ms RT should help.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Doubleome*
> 
> Then its prolly not working for me.. yet I hope


Definitely not working yet.

I would try the registry script that's floating about, the forcelightboost something one. Just double click on it, hit OK to add it to registry, and then have a go.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> I got up to 30 on my vg278h! But only the first 5 letters. It's readable, but the letters are scrolling so fast that every letter you have to start again at the beginning of the segment just to find your placing, it was just impossible for me to finish the whole segment in the alloted time. And your not joking your neck, lol.
> 
> I want to see if Vega can do it. Challenged!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the 1ms RT should help.


On the QE, 28 is easy. 29 starts to get a bit rough and like you said, 30 you have to almost take 1-2 letters at a time. Amazing motion for an LCD! On my FW900 30 was crystal clear, but that was also at 96 Hz which I believe would have slower scrolling text than our 120 Hz.

There is a crimson tint in LB mode just like the BenQ, still working on tuning that out. So far the monitor is obviously almost identical to the 11T, only natural having the same panel. Been using the screen for a couple hours now seeing how my eyes fatigue with LB at minimum. So far doing pretty good.


----------



## Makav3li

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> On the QE, 28 is easy. 29 starts to get a bit rough and like you said, 30 you have to almost take 1-2 letters at a time. Amazing motion for an LCD! On my FW900 30 was crystal clear, but that was also at 96 Hz which I believe would have slower scrolling text than our 120 Hz.
> 
> There is a crimson tint in LB mode just like the BenQ, still working on tuning that out. So far the monitor is obviously almost identical to the 11T, only natural having the same panel. Been using the screen for a couple hours now seeing how my eyes fatigue with LB at minimum. So far doing pretty good.


Can you write a brief guide on how to get it to work on the VG24QE? I don't have mine yet, but from the threads it seems like some people who just got them are having issues getting it to work properly.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> On the QE, 28 is easy. 29 starts to get a bit rough and like you said, 30 you have to almost take 1-2 letters at a time. Amazing motion for an LCD! On my FW900 30 was crystal clear, but that was also at 96 Hz which I believe would have slower scrolling text than our 120 Hz.
> 
> There is a crimson tint in LB mode just like the BenQ, still working on tuning that out. So far the monitor is obviously almost identical to the 11T, only natural having the same panel. Been using the screen for a couple hours now seeing how my eyes fatigue with LB at minimum. So far doing pretty good.


I see, yes 96hz would be slower scrolling text on the Pixperan readability test at 30, that explains why it was easier to read. I wonder if you could set the monitor to 100hz for a similar test, but not sure if lightboost is "as effective" @100hz compared to 120hz.

You get eye fatigue with Lightboost? For me 2d Lightboost is even easier on the eyes than regular 2d mode. Lightboost seems to block some of the harshness of the LEDs.


----------



## CallsignVega

I have confirmed Mark's settings of 10% Lightboost gives a 1.4 ms pulse. It's the fastest and should really be the only settings used IMO (for reference 100% Lightboost brightness gives 2.1 ms pulse). Pixperpan is now 100% readable at speed setting 30 at 120 Hz! The 1ms panels by Asus and BenQ appear to be identical in speed and noticeably faster than the 2ms 27"ers in LB mode. I wouldn't be surprised if they used the exact same LED back light from the OEM to boot. More to follow...


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Makav3li*
> 
> Can you write a brief guide on how to get it to work on the VG24QE? I don't have mine yet, but from the threads it seems like some people who just got them are having issues getting it to work properly.


The most common guide is the LightBoost HOWTO. That's the one Vega used.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whybother*
> 
> An emitter just means you don't need to use the INF method.
> You should be able to read well into the 20s in PixPerAn with LightBoost enabled. Some have reached 28, although your neck muscles may require some warming up first


I got 30 on PixPerAn before I upgraded to Windows 8, which ruined PixPerAn's ability to run properly.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I have confirmed Mark's settings of 10% Lightboost gives a 1.4 ms pulse. It's the fastest and should really be the only settings used IMO (for reference 100% Lightboost brightness gives 2.1 ms pulse). Pixperpan is now 100% readable at speed setting 30 at 120 Hz! The 1ms panels by Asus and BenQ appear to be identical in speed and noticeably faster than the 2ms 27"ers in LB mode. I wouldn't be surprised if they used the exact same LED back light from the OEM to boot. More to follow...


Very good to know! Thanks


----------



## mdrejhon

LightBoost at 10% is a bit dim for me except in a totally dark room. Usually I keep it at about 70%-80%, as a compromise, unless I am using 3D shutter glasses then I need it to be 100%!


----------



## riflepwnage

can this be done on a 60hz monitor or only 120hz?


----------



## whybother

I just ran 1920x1080 @ 120hz on my Iiyama 514. It has faster phosphors than the FW900. Fighting off the dizziness and urge to vomit, I managed to read text at a speed of 30 in PixPerAn* - took many many attempts.

If this speed can be read consistently using LightBoost without wanting to scratch your eyeballs out, that would indeed mean better than CRT motion.


----------



## M00NIE

Any tips to fix this?

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/5118/img0491vc.jpg

Some windows will be displayed all black.


----------



## hamzatm

That is the strangest stuff ever


----------



## Doubleome

Monitor says lightboost is enabled, but testing PixPerAn at higher speeds I see letters merge with eachother.

The plain Always enable 3D doesnt seem to work for me or the VG248QE either.

Going from AW2310 to this is a big change on its own. Think the cathodes where getting bit old, had massive troubles seeing stuff in BF3. This VG248QE is very clear and easy to distinguish stuff, prolly better AG, pre set modes and LED backlit I would asume is better.


----------



## Jujujam

The plain Always enable 3D doesnt seem to work for me or the VG248QE either.

Yeah the option is greyed out for me on the VG248QE.

Also, how do i turn off lightboost and 3d mode on the VG248QE?
I can't turn off 3d mode


----------



## Doubleome

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jujujam*
> 
> The plain Always enable 3D doesnt seem to work for me or the VG248QE either.
> 
> Yeah the option is greyed out for me on the VG248QE.
> 
> Also, how do i turn off lightboost and 3d mode on the VG248QE?


Same still. Tried registery fix as well nothing changed. Impossible to read PixPerAn above 6-8, letters are merging together. Btw the PixPerAnm only runs at 30 FPS isnt that a problem ?

The weird thing I find is that VG248QE tells me Lightboost is running. But everything points to it not working.

Running PixPerAn, going from LB off all the way up to max in increments. On speed 10, no change on any of the increments only thing thats changing is the backlight brightness.

PS: My PixPerAn only runs 30 fps.


----------



## CallsignVega

I am using NVIDIA drivers 313.96 and LB works fine on the VG248QE. Pixperan must run at 120 FPS or it will not work properly.


----------



## Doubleome

Ye before I can say if its working or not I gotta find a working 120 fps testing tool. PixPerAn doesnt go over 33 FPS with windows 8.

Besides that, windows desktop feels sluggish atm with LB supposedly turned on.


----------



## CallsignVega

Do you have the game Skyrim? It is easy to tell there with the AFK camera spinning. That is a very tough test for motion blur.


----------



## Doubleome

I dunno.

Found one of those "fps and human eye" things. Ball flying from side to side set it to 120 fps. LB on and OFF according to the screen, no noticable difference. The black trails behind and seems blurry.

Could it be windows 8 possibly ? seeing how much actually isnt compatible with win 8 I might change it back anway.


----------



## CallsignVega

I've posted a quick run-down and my thoughts on the Asus VG248QE here:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1331478/new-asus-vg248qe-144hz-1ms-tn-1080p/360#post_19191803


----------



## frallan123

So when I try lightboost hack on my Asus VG248QE it works perfectly only thing is some games I have 120fps but sometimes it drops down to 60 and it doesnt feel smooth at all, it feels like vsync drop from 60fps to 30fps. Im using 2 GTX 680 in SLI and without lightboost im always over 160fps so I dont know why it goes down to 60 with it on, any ideas?


----------



## hamzatm

I believe others have solved that by disabling the "enable stereoscopic 3D" checkbox once you have enabled lightboost, and then start your game. That should disable this strange vsync you are experiencing.


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frallan123*
> 
> So when I try lightboost hack on my Asus VG248QE it works perfectly only thing is some games I have 120fps but sometimes it drops down to 60 and it doesnt feel smooth at all, it feels like vsync drop from 60fps to 30fps. Im using 2 GTX 680 in SLI and without lightboost im always over 160fps so I dont know why it goes down to 60 with it on, any ideas?


I play blackops 2 and when the green text is on screen and I press and hold ctrl+T to get it off it stays at 120. If I tap ctrl+t a few times to get it off it stays at 125 with lightboost still on. One give you a vsync feel which runs very smooth but has input lag and the other lets you play without vsync while getting the same lightboost smoothness but minus the input lag.


----------



## Doubleome

Finally!!

Just reinstalled windows 7 from Windows 8. Was getting a lot of compatibility problems with some software so changed it back.

Installed Nvidia driver.
Ran the 3D install with the emitter.
Made sure 3D is always on.
Bam, screen went a bit dimmer and changed color EVER so slightly. Cant notice it.

Ran PixPerAn 120 fps this time, bam (F4) speed 30 is readable









Now waiting for a game to finish DLing and lets see


----------



## hamzatm

Pixperan doesn't work with Windows 8

lol


----------



## Doubleome

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Pixperan doesn't work with Windows 8
> 
> lol


Ye I established that earlier in this thread.

But LB in 120 fps games wasnt working either for me in Win 8.


----------



## hamzatm

All sorted then, although lightboost has worked for Mark (owner of BlurBusters blog) and he runs Windows 8. He has an XL2411T and VG278H.


----------



## Jim888

While I'm pretty sure I know the answer I HAVE to ask since I've got a monitor that seems to be compatible is there ANY way to get this to work with an AMD card?

I'm sure the answer is "no" or perhaps "buy an Nvidia card"

but it cant hurt to ask


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jim888*
> 
> While I'm pretty sure I know the answer I HAVE to ask since I've got a monitor that seems to be compatible is there ANY way to get this to work with an AMD card?
> 
> I'm sure the answer is "no" or perhaps "buy an Nvidia card"


Sorry not at this time. Its Nvidia exclusive.


----------



## frallan123

Okay so when I start games with LB on I get like 0.1FPS and whole computer freezes and sound also, I have to super quick to hold CTRL+T so not everything crashes, is there any other way doing this?


----------



## Swolern

I finally got around to test the 10% Lightboost settings. And wow motion is even more clear, but man it is dark. A completely dark room is needed for those settings, but wow Crysis 3 beta was as smooth and clear as ever. Pixperan speed 30 was even more readable.

BTW nice review as always Vega.


----------



## partyboy75

CRT are still superior! It become harder and harder to find high-end CRT that have not used much, but usually they came really cheap. The CRT is the only technology that gives me advantage over other players. No input lag, no ghosting, superior colors that help spot and identify enemy hiding in dark posts on map before he starts shooting at me. Properly focused CRT still have equal sharpness of LCD on native resolution.

Only real advantage of LCD displays over 10 year old CRT are giving empty space behind screen that are not usable and is left empty anyway.


----------



## hamzatm

No, it gives you extra space in in front of your screen that is vastly used, and it doesn't look ugly.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> I finally got around to test the 10% Lightboost settings. And wow motion is even more clear, but man it is dark. A completely dark room is needed for those settings, but wow Crysis 3 beta was as smooth and clear as ever. Pixperan speed 30 was even more readable.
> 
> BTW nice review as always Vega.


Ya, the 10% settings is very nice but like you said it is too dim to use in a room unless it's fairly dark. Only useful for very light controlled rooms or at night. I've found out that typical matte film coatings used block over 10% of total light and that light is scattered. Gloss film transmits over 99% of light and doesn't scatter. It will be interesting to see how much brighter it will make the screen.


----------



## Doubleome

Thing I do find kinda strange is that I used a emitter and didnt do anything you otherwise wouldnt have done when trying to play a 3D game. But there is no way to turn it off...... Kinda weird if you ask me.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Doubleome*
> 
> Thing I do find kinda strange is that I used a emitter and didnt do anything you otherwise wouldnt have done when trying to play a 3D game. But there is no way to turn it off...... Kinda weird if you ask me.


Ya it's a bug I the Nvidia drivers that we exploit to get the Lightboost to stay on in 2d mode. I have found the only sure way to get the monitor(s) back to regular 2d is a system restart with turning off the power to the monitors completely, I just flip my power surge switch when PC is off and then restart. But I myself just leave Lightboost on continuously.


----------



## hamzatm

Mine turns off perfectly, I just change the "choose when display is in 3D mode" to "when 3d application runs" (instead of "always"), and then click apply. Lightboost gone.


----------



## CallsignVega

Funny, mine stays in LB mode after doing that and anything else. Although I prefer it to stay in LB mode.


----------



## hamzatm

Hmm, it's always worked for me despite which method I used to enable lightboost.

On my VG278HE I used the custom .inf and registry hack, and lightboost disabled fine.

On my VG278H, I used the built in 3D emitter to enable lightboost normally - and it disabled fine here as well.

Only thing I can think of is something to do with the registry? The computer has been the same throughout.


----------



## Ansive

If you have trouble turning off LightBoost just change the 3d mode to 3D vision discover (if that doesn't fix it right away changing the resolution afterward should).


----------



## amggotleir

So which monitor should i get for the lightboost hack... VG248QE or XL2411T? guess the benq has a bit better input lag?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amggotleir*
> 
> So which monitor should i get for the lightboost hack... VG248QE or XL2411T? guess the benq has a bit better input lag?


Neither have been tested yet for "versus" input lag comparision.

However, it does seem that both appear to be excellent (after color calibration -- some settings in the HardForum VG248QE thread. It does seem that the VG248QE is much easier to get, as the BENQ XL2411T is only available overseas. From what I am reading, here are some reviews of the VG248QE and LightBoost from HardForum:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vega*
> Gaming on this monitor is a pleasure as far as motion clarity is concerned. As a FW900 aficionado, this monitor with the right settings can have just as clear of motion. While the FW900 does have superior image quality, you also have a smaller image (22.5" versus 24"). Using NVIDIA driver 313.96, enabling Lightboost has been a fairly painless experience (although as some others have found out there is a bug in which under certain circumstances your computer will start pausing and behaving extremely sluggishly when adjusting 3D settings). Interestingly enough, the monitor seems to like to stay "stuck" in LB mode, even after adjusting settings in the control panel. This is actually a boon for those of us that bought this monitor for 24/7 LB mode like myself.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Baxter299*
> way to go vega enjoyed your review and pics ..thanks for taking the time .got my VG248QE last friday .replacing my fw900 witch is finally taking a rest in my closet .


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Romir*
> Thanks for the timely review Vega.
> I went ahead and opened mine and WOW, it really does feel like my FW900. I haven't tried a game yet but it's down right eerie seeing 2d text move without going blurry.


----------



## shedokan

All you need for this to work at ifs best is nvidia card and 144hz monitor?

Btw will it work just as good with cards like 460 470 or you need latest generation?

Lowest input lag and fastest is the 2411t and vg248qe atm?
Thx


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> All you need for this to work at ifs best is nvidia card and 144hz monitor?


They can be 120hz or 144hz monitors, but they do need to have the Lightboost technology hardware included in the monitor(strobing backlight). And yes an Nvidia card.
Quote:


> Btw will it work just as good with cards like 460 470 or you need latest generation?


As long as you get close to 120fps in the game you are good. 120fps @120hz will look the best. The 460/470 wont reach that level in most newer games, but older less gpu intense games will work. Although some games look still extremely smooth and clear above 90fps.
Quote:


> Lowest input lag and fastest is the 2411t and vg248qe atm?


Yes those two are currently the top of the line for Lightboost.


----------



## Arc0s

After I exit some games my desktop slows to a crawl mouse pointer included, this happens in Tribes and BF3, but doesn't happen in CS GO. I would like to leave LB always on but this is preventing me from doing it







Any ideas?

Monitor: Asus vg248qe

OS: Windows 7


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> After I exit some games my desktop slows to a crawl mouse pointer included, this happens in Tribes and BF3, but doesn't happen in CS GO. I would like to leave LB always on but this is preventing me from doing it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any ideas?
> Monitor: Asus vg248qe
> OS: Windows 7


Not sure if your problem is Lightboost related. I havent heard of this happening to anyone else with the vg248qe in Lightboost mode. Might want to look at your Task Manager for processes eating up your CPU time & your total physical memory (RAM) use.

I have heard of other people having this exact same issue with certain games using non-Lightboost monitors.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> After I exit some games my desktop slows to a crawl mouse pointer included, this happens in Tribes and BF3, but doesn't happen in CS GO. I would like to leave LB always on but this is preventing me from doing it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Monitor: Asus vg248qe
> 
> OS: Windows 7


When that happens on your desktop, just press ctrl t, much like you would in game. Fixed it for me every time.


----------



## Arc0s

OK got it to work fine now, I set everything back to default and then installed the inf and reg files again. I think the only thing I did different last time was that I clicked on "test stereoscopic 3d" I think that's what made it act all weird. This time I didn't click on that and everything is running without any problems.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> OK got it to work fine now, I set everything back to default and then installed the inf and reg files again. I think the only thing I did different last time was that I clicked on "test stereoscopic 3d" I think that's what made it act all weird. This time I didn't click on that and everything is running without any problems.


How does the game motion look now?


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> How does the game motion look now?


It looks amazing, even better than the benq 2420 I had!


----------



## miahallen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miahallen*
> 
> I just wanted to jump in here and let you all know that I've been watching this thread with great interest. I ordered three VG278HEs last week, and I'm expecting them soon, I'm most interested in 3D....but I'm sure I'll use this 2D trick for a few of my games. Hopefully my panels all look good and don't have the issues hamzatm has been describing.


Well, I just got one of my monitors, I should have the other two by tomorrow. I bought them primarily for 3D, but plan to use this 2D Lightboost trick on some of my games. While I'm a bit disappointed with 3D so far (see my other thread), this 2D Lightboost trick look phenominal







! I'm really looking forward to having all 3 setup


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miahallen*
> 
> Well, I just got one of my monitors, I should have the other two by tomorrow. I bought them primarily for 3D, but plan to use this 2D Lightboost trick on some of my games. While I'm a bit disappointed with 3D so far (see my other thread), this 2D Lightboost trick look phenominal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ! I'm really looking forward to having all 3 setup


2D Lightboost makes 3D mode look like crap. And you don't have to fart around with silly glasses either.


----------



## Ourselves

I have the light boost working. (It shows 3d mode on my monitors settings) But I really cant tell a huge diffrence between it on or off. Its at 1 Tick (10%) and i have bf3 capped at 120 fps. The 120 hz is a huge improvement from my 60 HZ and I feel like my eye strain is reduced a lot. But I feel like my eyes have to use focusing muscles a lot more. No more eye strain but eye training... Very weird. I can still see little stuttering steps. Very Very small movements when average speed panning the camera. Is this the full effect or am i doing something wrong and is there a test to find out.


----------



## miahallen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> 2D Lightboost makes 3D mode look like crap. And you don't have to fart around with silly glasses either.


I became a huge fan of 3D with my 100" projector over the past year....its amzing with DLP because zero ghosting....but I think its not optimal with LCD technology. If only some manufacturer would produce a 1080p 3DVision projector


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ourselves*
> 
> I have the light boost working. (It shows 3d mode on my monitors settings) But I really cant tell a huge diffrence between it on or off. Its at 1 Tick (10%) and i have bf3 capped at 120 fps. The 120 hz is a huge improvement from my 60 HZ and I feel like my eye strain is reduced a lot. But I feel like my eyes have to use focusing muscles a lot more. No more eye strain but eye training... Very weird. I can still see little stuttering steps. Very Very small movements when average speed panning the camera.


BF3 is just a stuttery game in many PC setups. Enabling Vsync should help, or you can try different GPU drivers.
Quote:


> Is this the full effect or am i doing something wrong and is there a test to find out.


You can test the 2d lightboost by using PixPerAn readability test. At 120hz non-lightboost should only be readable up to speed 7 or 8. Lightboost set to 10% should be readable up to the max speed, which is 30. Download Pixperan *HERE*
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miahallen*
> 
> I became a huge fan of 3D with my 100" projector over the past year....its amzing with DLP because zero ghosting....but I think its not optimal with LCD technology. If only some manufacturer would produce a 1080p 3DVision projector


DLP is better for 3d due the crosstalk issue with LCD, but then your stuck at a low 720p res for 100inches of screen. But the 3d vision 2 monitors do have the least crosstalk on any monitors available. Default settings on the VG278H series have a lot of 3d ghosting. But with a little tweaking you can get almost zero 3d ghosting out of the monitors, you adjust the contrast down. I set 3D to contrast 68 with LB 100%. Unlike 2d lightboost mode where best settings are LB 10% and contrast 92.

3d Surround is jaw dropping, when it works correctly, it brings many life-like qualities to the game. Unfortunately only about 20% of newer games support it well.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miahallen*
> 
> I became a huge fan of 3D with my 100" projector over the past year....its amzing with DLP because zero ghosting....but I think its not optimal with LCD technology. If only some manufacturer would produce a 1080p 3DVision projector


I can barely stand 1080P let alone 720P.


----------



## miahallen

I agree with you resolution is very important, my primary display for the past couple years has been a 30" 1600p display, and I love it. But I really like good quality 3D as well. It just seems to me the best option for 3D would be a 1080p DLP projector, it just doesn't exist yet. Until then we're stuck with good quality 720p OR 1080p with crosstalk


----------



## renji1337

LIGHTBOOST ISSUE

Alright i have a vg248qe and 2 670s in sli, and i run 2 monitors

at one point i couldnt get lightboost to work, then i did and i turned 3d on, went into a game, then exited and turned 3d off. once i did this my pc always had lightboost on 24/7 even when i restarted my computer but today i was playing with resolutions and messed something up, now i can't get lightboost to stay on in a game, itll sometimes stay on in crysis 3, but when i launch battlefield it's all laggy and sound is messed up and it shows the 3d menu and i have to hold control t to get out of it or i freeze and then lightboost is on but im capped to 120fps.

How do i fix this so lightboost is always on again


----------



## shedokan

is it worth buying this monitor if you still play constantly some q3 engine game at 125fps?


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> is it worth buying this monitor if you still play constantly some q3 engine game at 125fps?


Definitely. It reduces blur with lightboost, even at 125fps

Some monitors are better than this at others though, for example the XL2411T I bought is much better (clearer) than my VG278H


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miahallen*
> 
> I agree with you resolution is very important, my primary display for the past couple years has been a 30" 1600p display, and I love it. But I really like good quality 3D as well. It just seems to me the best option for 3D would be a 1080p DLP projector, it just doesn't exist yet. Until then we're stuck with good quality 720p OR 1080p with crosstalk


If you try shutter-glasses LCD, then try the new 1ms monitors such as the BENQ XL2411T or ASUS VG248QE. These LCD's have near zero crosstalk! The crosstalk appeared at least an order of magnitude fainter (10x better) than most LCD's I've seen. That said, the color quality is not very good, and the resolution is a massive downgrade from 1600p.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ourselves*
> 
> I have the light boost working. (It shows 3d mode on my monitors settings) But I really cant tell a huge diffrence between it on or off. Its at 1 Tick (10%) and i have bf3 capped at 120 fps. The 120 hz is a huge improvement from my 60 HZ and I feel like my eye strain is reduced a lot. But I feel like my eyes have to use focusing muscles a lot more. No more eye strain but eye training... Very weird. I can still see little stuttering steps. Very Very small movements when average speed panning the camera. Is this the full effect or am i doing something wrong and is there a test to find out.


Try PixPerAn -- the motion test software from prad.de:
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/testsoftware/pixperan.html

Also when testing LightBoost with games, temporarily turn VSYNC on -- at least during testing periods. It's not good for competitive gaming due to input lag, but it will eliminate the stutters from distracting you during motion blur testing. Synchronized [email protected] with LightBoost is 'distinctively' clear motion, allowing you to have a better basis for comparision for LightBoost ON/OFF.

Eye behavior varies from person to person. If you're working your focussing muscles more, one possibility is because you were relaxing your focussing muscles a little bit when playing at 60 Hz with lots of motion blur. The clearer motion at 120 Hz (even without LightBoost) likely means you have to be less lazy with your focussing during motion. Some in these threads (here and HardForum) said it's less eyestrain (easier to focus), some say it's more eyestrain (flicker eyestrain due to 120 Hz flicker). Generally, as a rule of thumb -- if you're used to CRT at high refresh rates, isn't bothered by 120Hz flicker, and like CRT clear motion, you'll most likely like LightBoost a lot. Not everyone seems fully sensitive to motion blur.

Either way, 120 Hz is still a bonus, regardless whether you turn LightBoost on or off, so the monitor purchase isn't wasted.

Usually I game LightBoost at 60%-100% setting, since LightBoost 10% is way too dim for me.


----------



## hamzatm

Just got the XL2411T and it is definitely better in terms of clarity than the VG278H.

At 10% lightboost mode I could successfully read all of the readability test on PixPerAn. I used the Windows 7 Calibration tool to calibrate it and it looks pretty good now, at the moment I use 100% lightboost when on desktop, and flick it down to 10% when in game. Very happy so far!


----------



## SightUp

Is there a YouTube video of someone doing this fix step by step?


----------



## chuckinbeast

So annoyed that AMD cards can't do this.....I'm seriously considering dropping my 7970 SLI with EK water blocks to go to nvidia for this.


----------



## writer21

Does tracefree have any effect on lightboost trick with vg278he monitor? If so what would be the best setting. Also is it possible to use the lightboost trick without the inf for my monitor. I do like 144hz for BF3.


----------



## hamzatm

You can't use the lightboost trick without an inf, BUT, you can use a special inf that allows lightboost as well as 144Hz. A guy posted the inf for his XL2411T that he customized himself, it's somewhere within the first 50 or so posts on this thread.

Also trace free makes no difference to lightboost at all.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> You can't use the lightboost trick without an inf, BUT, you can use a special inf that allows lightboost as well as 144Hz. A guy posted the inf for his XL2411T that he customized himself, it's somewhere within the first 50 or so posts on this thread.
> 
> Also trace free makes no difference to lightboost at all.


You don't need the inf if you have a 3d emitter. At least that's how it works on my monitors.

From what I read before the Lightboost strobe light can't go up to 144hz. Have you been able to achieve this?

@ writer21
Lightboost [email protected] looks tons smoother than non-Lightboost [email protected]


----------



## writer21

I'm not able to get 120 FPS in BF3. So with 144hz for BF3 only I could just turn off lightboost and lower my frames to 75 with 144hz which is pretty damn smooth.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> I'm not able to get 120 FPS in BF3. So with 144hz for BF3 only I could just turn off lightboost and lower my frames to 75 with 144hz which is pretty damn smooth.


In some games including BF3 I still get the Lightboost benifit and it looks smooth above 80fps and I get the additional motion clarity. If you could tweak some settings to reach above that mark it would be benificial. Of corse Lightboost will look its best at 120fps, but still very good above 80fps IMO.

I suggest trying Lightboost with Counter Strike GO where it is pretty easy for most higher end GPUs to stay at 120fps and the motion clarity is very benificial to the type of gameplay.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> You don't need the inf if you have a 3d emitter. At least that's how it works on my monitors.
> 
> From what I read before the Lightboost strobe light can't go up to 144hz. Have you been able to achieve this?
> 
> @ writer21
> Lightboost [email protected] looks tons smoother than non-Lightboost [email protected]


To clarify, I correctly understood from his post that he does not have a 3D emitter (VG278HE), and that he would like to turn off lightboost in BF3 so he can run it at standard 144HZ, thus was my reply.

He already is running lightboost in games that he gets enough FPS, and would like to only use standard 144HZ in BF3 alone.


----------



## podunk

Is there a way to keep lightboost on without have stereoscopic 3D on? CS Go always launches in 3D mode and having to press control T every time it starts, or when i alt tab out of the game gets annoying since it seems to take almost a minute to register.


----------



## hamzatm

Don't think so, although once in lightboost you can uncheck the "enable stereoscopic 3D" checkbox, apply settings, and then start your game. Think that works, but your monitor may go out of lightboost after restarting the PC or something.


----------



## shedokan

You guys type -freq or -refresh in ur cs go launch options?


----------



## hamzatm

Not really no, but I'm not currently a hardcore CS GO player. What duz that do anyway?


----------



## 666lbs

If only there was a tweak to give any LCD monitor equivalent input latency to a CRT monitor. In hindsight that's the biggest advantage that CRT's have.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *podunk*
> 
> Is there a way to keep lightboost on without have stereoscopic 3D on? CS Go always launches in 3D mode and having to press control T every time it starts, or when i alt tab out of the game gets annoying since it seems to take almost a minute to register.


Yes, follow the reg edit instructions. I have full-time LB without 3D enabled.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *666lbs*
> 
> If only there was a tweak to give any LCD monitor equivalent input latency to a CRT monitor. In hindsight that's the biggest advantage that CRT's have.


These 144Hz monitors have like 2-3 ms input lag. That is deep into trivial territory and are essentially as fast as a CRT.


----------



## 666lbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Yes, follow the reg edit instructions. I have full-time LB without 3D enabled.
> These 144Hz monitors have like 2-3 ms input lag. That is deep into trivial territory and are essentially as fast as a CRT.


Not that I don't believe you, but I'm a sucker for monitor tech so if you have a comparison test between one of these monitors and a CRT and could post the link for me I'd eat it up.

Also, when they test an LCD and hypothetically come up with 2-3ms of input latency (for the sake of argument) that's not saying the monitor has 2-3ms of input latency. That's in relation to the CRT it's being tested against. Again, since we're just talking about the minutiae of monitor business now.


----------



## Zero4549

120+ Hz 1440p IPS panels, Fluid-Motion TN panels, TVs with actually-functional local dimming and ambient lighting, OLED cellphone screens...

And yet... we will probably never get it all in a single affordable pre-enabled package.

Damn you stagnant monitor manufacturers and the consumers who simply don't care enough to demand more!


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *666lbs*
> 
> Not that I don't believe you, but I'm a sucker for monitor tech so if you have a comparison test between one of these monitors and a CRT and could post the link for me I'd eat it up.
> 
> Also, when they test an LCD and hypothetically come up with 2-3ms of input latency (for the sake of argument) that's not saying the monitor has 2-3ms of input latency. That's in relation to the CRT it's being tested against. Again, since we're just talking about the minutiae of monitor business now.


http://pcmonitors.info/reviews/benq-xl2411t

The Asus QE uses the same panel as the 11T and both are considered the "best" LCD's out there if you are concerned about motion blur, ghosting and using Lightboost.


----------



## 666lbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> http://pcmonitors.info/reviews/benq-xl2411t
> 
> The Asus QE uses the same panel as the 11T and both are considered the "best" LCD's out there if you are concerned about motion blur, ghosting and using Lightboost.


Arrrgh they should have posted video of their test. It's inordinately hard to take someone's word for it when it comes to monitors, where there is so much borderline blatant lying to begin with. Also have to say that 2-3ms is not exactly the best in the industry (but it is certainly better than the vast majority). Dell's 2312hm has an input latency of 0.6ms when compared to a CRT.

source: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2312hm.htm


----------



## whybother

I personally consider the TFTCentral input lag results to be complete garbage. They seem to be a mish-mash of various methods.

0.6ms is the signal latency. This is simply the time taken to begin switching the pixel state. IPS displays tend to have a very low value, most likely due to technical reasons.

The average input lag for the Dell u2312hm you mention is *9.3ms* - http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review/2011/review-dell-u2312hm-part13.html#Responsiveness


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *666lbs*
> 
> Arrrgh they should have posted video of their test. It's inordinately hard to take someone's word for it when it comes to monitors, where there is so much borderline blatant lying to begin with. Also have to say that 2-3ms is not exactly the best in the industry (but it is certainly better than the vast majority). Dell's 2312hm has an input latency of 0.6ms when compared to a CRT.
> 
> source: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2312hm.htm


Given the time consuming nature of thoroughly reviewing a monitor and the fact nobody pays us reviewers to do so, I don't really see how a video would be practical or for most users useful. We don't document other areas of our methodology in such a way either and that isn't something people generally expect. You've just got to take our word for it or test this sort of thing for yourself. When it comes to input lag testing we have recently revised our protocol to include a very specific set of baseline measurements. This is described in more detail in the U2713H review. It is also important to appreciate the inherent inaccuracies of measuring input lag, unless you are using an oscilloscope and photodiode and have the appropriate know-how.

For all intents and purposes nobody who is human will be bothered by the input lag of the XL2411T or VG248QE because it is imperceptibly low. And comparing a 60Hz monitor to a 144Hz one is fruitless. There is more to how responsive a monitor feels than input lag - and refresh rate happens to be a very important factor here. Any 60Hz monitor with '0 input lag' simply does not feel as responsive as these 144Hz monitors because it displays less than half as much information every second and doesn't respond to mouse movement (input polling) as frequently. It's easy for somebody with 'hands on experience' to appreciate this and take it for granted. I know it's also easy to theorise and be led down the wrong path with these things







.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> Given the time consuming nature of thoroughly reviewing a monitor and the fact nobody pays us reviewers to do so, I don't really see how a video would be practical or for most users useful. We don't document other areas of our methodology in such a way either and that isn't something people generally expect. You've just got to take our word for it or test this sort of thing for yourself. When it comes to input lag testing we have recently revised our protocol to include a very specific set of baseline measurements. This is described in more detail in the U2713H review. It is also important to appreciate the inherent inaccuracies of measuring input lag, unless you are using an oscilloscope and photodiode and have the appropriate know-how.
> 
> For all intents and purposes nobody who is human will be bothered by the input lag of the XL2411T or VG248QE because it is imperceptibly low. And comparing a 60Hz monitor to a 144Hz one is fruitless. There is more to how responsive a monitor feels than input lag - and refresh rate happens to be a very important factor here. Any 60Hz monitor with '0 input lag' simply does not feel as responsive as these 144Hz monitors because it displays less than half as much information every second and doesn't respond to mouse movement (input polling) as frequently. It's easy for somebody with 'hands on experience' to appreciate this and take it for granted. I know it's also easy to theorise and be led down the wrong path with these things
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I totally agree. People talking about the differences of input lag sub 5ms is meaningless.


----------



## hamzatm

@666lbs Seriously, no there isn't a picture compared to a CRT that I can find. Take our word or leave the subject.


----------



## 666lbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> Given the time consuming nature of thoroughly reviewing a monitor and the fact nobody pays us reviewers to do so, I don't really see how a video would be practical or for most users useful. We don't document other areas of our methodology in such a way either and that isn't something people generally expect. You've just got to take our word for it or test this sort of thing for yourself. When it comes to input lag testing we have recently revised our protocol to include a very specific set of baseline measurements. This is described in more detail in the U2713H review. It is also important to appreciate the inherent inaccuracies of measuring input lag, unless you are using an oscilloscope and photodiode and have the appropriate know-how.
> 
> For all intents and purposes nobody who is human will be bothered by the input lag of the XL2411T or VG248QE because it is imperceptibly low. And comparing a 60Hz monitor to a 144Hz one is fruitless. There is more to how responsive a monitor feels than input lag - and refresh rate happens to be a very important factor here. Any 60Hz monitor with '0 input lag' simply does not feel as responsive as these 144Hz monitors because it displays less than half as much information every second and doesn't respond to mouse movement (input polling) as frequently. It's easy for somebody with 'hands on experience' to appreciate this and take it for granted. I know it's also easy to theorise and be led down the wrong path with these things
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Anyone who is responsibly contributing "definitive" measurements on input latency is in fact using an oscilloscope and photosensor. If they aren't, they're contributing nothing of value.

I'm with you in theory (regarding the 144hz monitor) but 0.6ms measured input latency @ 60hz and 2-3ms @144hz are both well below the threshold of human perception, so to say that the 144hz "feels" more responsive isn't exactly accurate. But from a technical perspective I see what you are saying.


----------



## hamzatm

This is why I'm not a fan of people who come up with stuff akin to "the human eye sees at about 30 frames, anything more is useless overkill" (and all the rest of it) and won't shut up until you have bought scientific evidence in absolute totality to prove otherwise.. when if you actually took the time to simply TRY anything 144Hz, and try anything 60Hz, you would learn that it brings a whole new meaning to the term "feels" more responsive. Theorycrafting in terms of gaming peripheral responsiveness has and always will be useless. Good luck in your fruitless search









On a related note to the problem at hand, the millions of people who try 120Hz's or above pretty much unanimously agree that it squarely kicks 60Hz's behind; yet you will always find people who still ask for scientific proof.


----------



## 666lbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> This is why I'm not a fan of people who come up with stuff akin to "the human eye sees at about 30 frames, anything more is useless overkill" (and all the rest of it) and won't shut up until you have bought scientific evidence in absolute totality to prove otherwise.. when if you actually took the time to simply TRY anything 144Hz, and try anything 60Hz, you would learn that it brings a whole new meaning to the term "feels" more responsive. Theorycrafting in terms of gaming peripheral responsiveness has and always will be useless. Good luck in your fruitless search


I own both a 60hz Dell 2312hm and a 120hz VG236H, and I wasn't comparing 120hz or 144hz to 60hz in an argument about how many fps your eyes can see. We were talking about measuring input latency of 60hz vs. 144hz with an oscilloscope so maybe you should calm down, since you don't seem to understand anything that either of us said in the last several posts (buy us I mean PCM2 by the way).

@PCM2, I'm still curious if you measure 0.6ms input latency with an oscilloscope on one monitor and 2-3ms on another how their respective hz affect these measurements (because of the nature of how you are measuring). The final numbers (0.6 and 2 or 3 respectively) should ultimately represent the interpretation of the output by an eye or lens or what have you, and ultimately decide which is hypothetically more "responsive".
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> On a related note to the problem at hand, the millions of people who *buy* 120Hz's or above pretty much unanimously agree that it squarely kicks 60Hz's behind; yet you will always find people who still ask for scientific proof.


FTFY


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *666lbs*
> 
> Anyone who is responsibly contributing "definitive" measurements on input latency is in fact using an oscilloscope and photosensor. If they aren't, they're contributing nothing of value.
> 
> I'm with you in theory (regarding the 144hz monitor) but 0.6ms measured input latency @ 60hz and 2-3ms @144hz are both well below the threshold of human perception, so to say that the 144hz "feels" more responsive isn't exactly accurate. But from a technical perspective I see what you are saying.


But you are supporting part of your argument using a phantom value (0.6ms) which certainly was not measured with an oscilloscope and photodiode. It was measured using a camera and stopwatch setup which can't separate basal input latency and some element of pixel response performance. Use of photodiode and oscilloscope is very rare indeed and to say anything else contributes nothing of value is simply not true. The fact of the matter is that people have difference sensitivity to input lag and fretting over a couple of millisecond is pointless.

And I think you are missing the point about the influence of refresh rate, or at thinking I was drawing a link that I wasn't. This has nothing specifically to do with the signal processing delay or input lag of the monitor but it has a hell of a lot to do with how responsive the whole thing feels to the user. On a 144Hz monitor the screen is feeding the user 2.4 times as much visual information every second (or over any time period in fact). Assimilated amongst that information is the outcome of the user's input responses, including mouse movements. This is what I was referring to previously by more frequent input polling.


----------



## 666lbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> And I think you are missing the point about the influence of refresh rate, or at thinking I was drawing a link that I wasn't. This has nothing specifically to do with the signal processing delay or input lag of the monitor but it has a hell of a lot to do with how responsive the whole thing feels to the user..


This is what I was specifically asking to have clarified, ty









Also, use of an oscilloscope and photo sensor is indeed rare, but if you look around the net, equally rare are sites contributing valuable information on how monitors relate to each other. lol


----------



## hamzatm

Got math-owned... I'll shut up now


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *666lbs*
> 
> This is what I was specifically asking to have clarified, ty


Excellent.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *666lbs*
> 
> Also, use of an oscilloscope and photo sensor is indeed rare, but if you look around the net, equally rare are sites contributing valuable information on how monitors relate to each other.


Indeed. I spend a lot of my spare time helping people understand them better and trying to run a website that gives people the information they need. I get a lot of very confused people who look no further than generic 'hardware' sites for specialist information. It certainly isn't like looking at a graphics card where you can feed people figures such as frame rates and such that people can instantly translate into "bad", "good", "excellent" etc. With monitors there's an awful lot to consider and subjectivity is extremely important. You have to look at the bigger picture.


----------



## renji1337

My lightboost used to be always on and i never had to hit control t. not i can't get it to go to always on again?


----------



## Swolern

Anyone having problems with Lightboost in BF3 mp. I keep getting game crashes. Dont know if its beta drivers or a BF3 update causing problem.

Edit: Yup it was the R313 beta drivers. Had to go back to 310.xx whql

The beta drivers were causing issues at desktop also when in Lightboost mode.


----------



## Denca

The so called Lightboost also works on samsungs monitors SA700D, SA750D and SA950D with both Nvidia and AMD.

http://marky.com/backlight/lightboost-zero-motion-blur/samsung/


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Denca*
> 
> The so called Lightboost also works on samsungs monitors SA700D, SA750D and SA950D with both Nvidia and AMD.
> 
> http://marky.com/backlight/lightboost-zero-motion-blur/samsung/


Lol, you sound a little feisty there bud. Glad Mark got it working for the AMD crowd also. Too bad it introduces too much lag for online multiplayer gaming on the Samsungs; I wonder why. That's what I mostly use Lightboost for.


----------



## hamzatm

Nice, good news for AMD owners!


----------



## PCM2

Yes - it's just a shame Samsung decided to discontinue their SA700/750/950 series without announcing any official replacement. I've been trying to several months to work out what their grand plan is.


----------



## hamzatm

That series of monitors was perfect in so many ways, no ghosting at all, glossy screen with very good colours and contrast, 120Hz, and now we know they even had strobing backlights! The only downside was the input lag, if they released an identical monitor without the input lag it would be simply perfect.

Hopefully they have something good in the works.


----------



## CallsignVega

Does anyone have three Lightboost monitors of any kind in Surround that could test to see if LB stays enabled if you use them in portrait mode surround? (you don't have to physically rotate your displays, just attempt the setting).


----------



## Denca

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> Lol, you sound a little feisty there bud. Glad Mark got it working for the AMD crowd also. Too bad it introduces too much lag for online multiplayer gaming on the Samsungs; I wonder why. That's what I mostly use Lightboost for.


No I'm just trying to spread the news. And as far as the mouse lag thing. The only game I've noticed it was in Skyrim but thats no a problem for me because I play it on my HDTV in 3D. I tried Quake live, Battlefield 3 ( Vsync On ) and Far Cry 3 ( Vsync On ) and to be honest I didn't noticed any difference and in Quake Live I noticed I made slightly more kills than usualy as if my reflexes some how improved. I'm not saying there isn't increase in input lag its just not that noticeable except in Skyrim ( for me at least ) .


----------



## CallsignVega

Skyrim is really bad when it comes to input lag as it uses double buffering and you have manually turn it off in the pref's file.


----------



## miahallen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Does anyone have three Lightboost monitors of any kind in Surround that could test to see if LB stays enabled if you use them in portrait mode surround? (you don't have to physically rotate your displays, just attempt the setting).


I'll try to give it a shot in a few hours


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Does anyone have three Lightboost monitors of any kind in Surround that could test to see if LB stays enabled if you use them in portrait mode surround? (you don't have to physically rotate your displays, just attempt the setting).


Stuck at work so can't test. Someone planning triple VG24QEs with a couple of Titans? That would be sweet!


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miahallen*
> 
> I'll try to give it a shot in a few hours


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> Stuck at work so can't test. Someone planning triple VG24QEs with a couple of Titans? That would be sweet!


Awesome, I look forward to hearing the results. I take it on both of your setups Lightboost works fine in landscape 2D Surround?

Testing with my single QE when I rotate it to portrait, the 3D settings go away in the NVIDIA control panel, but my QE stays in LB mode (I use the VG278H.ini and no-emitter reg edit). My worry is that when I go to put three of them into portrait 2D surround, it will ignore/screw with my LB mode setting. But that should be pretty simple for you guys to test.


----------



## miahallen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Awesome, I look forward to hearing the results. I take it on both of your setups Lightboost works fine in landscape 2D Surround?
> 
> Testing with my single QE when I rotate it to portrait, the 3D settings go away in the NVIDIA control panel, but my QE stays in LB mode (I use the VG278H.ini and no-emitter reg edit). My worry is that when I go to put three of them into portrait 2D surround, it will ignore/screw with my LB mode setting. But that should be pretty simple for you guys to test.


Nope...didn't work.







As soon as I clicked "configure" (in order to set my displays to portrait), the Lightboost gets disabled. After configuration is complete, the 3D menu is gone, so I cannot go back to enable it again







I tried it twice just to be sure.


----------



## shedokan

When using LB can u still get high brightness or close to non LB? When I tried that on my 700D it was super dark


----------



## Swolern

I got Lightboost to work in Portrait mode 3240x1920. Even started up BF3 to make sure it stayed on.



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> When using LB can u still get high brightness or close to non LB? When I tried that on my 700D it was super dark


Not really. Turning up contrast up to 92 helps a lot, but not non-LB brightness. I would estimate 75-85% brightness.


----------



## tsunamipop

Hey guys. Started following these threads a few weeks back as I have been looking to get 120hz monitor. Great stuff. I purchsed the asus vg248qe and am very pleased. Read pixperan to 30 and correctly can enter the test string. I am completely happy with everything. I am curious if I there is a way to keep the 144 hz option. I wanted to be able to test all modes and give my results to those non believers. So far though the 120hz lightboost is fantastic.

Great job Mark, Vega and the rest of you have been a big help in my decison to go Asus.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miahallen*
> 
> Nope...didn't work.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As soon as I clicked "configure" (in order to set my displays to portrait), the Lightboost gets disabled. After configuration is complete, the 3D menu is gone, so I cannot go back to enable it again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tried it twice just to be sure.


Are you using the full-time LB registry edit and the 278H.ini? I've noticed that I can still get my QE to go into LB mode in portrait, I just have to configure it in landscape first as you are right, the 3D menu goes away in portrait. The key is getting them to "stick" LB mode before the rotation.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> I got Lightboost to work in Portrait mode 3240x1920. Even started up BF3 to make sure it stayed on.
> 
> Not really. Turning up contrast up to 92 helps a lot, but not non-LB brightness. I would estimate 75-85% brightness.


Sweet man thanks for testing! Now I feel more comfortable about my two inbound QE's for Surround.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsunamipop*
> 
> Hey guys. Started following these threads a few weeks back as I have been looking to get 120hz monitor. Great stuff. I purchsed the asus vg248qe and am very pleased. Read pixperan to 30 and correctly can enter the test string. I am completely happy with everything. I am curious if I there is a way to keep the 144 hz option. I wanted to be able to test all modes and give my results to those non believers. So far though the 120hz lightboost is fantastic.
> 
> Great job Mark, Vega and the rest of you have been a big help in my decison to go Asus.


Ya, it is a great monitor. Now the only thing left is for you to remove the matte film to make it complete.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Are you using the full-time LB registry edit and the 278H.ini? I've noticed that I can still get my QE to go into LB mode in portrait, I just have to configure it in landscape first as you are right, the 3D menu goes away in portrait. The key is getting them to "stick" LB mode before the rotation.
> Sweet man thanks for testing! Now I feel more comfortable about my two inbound QE's for Surround.


No prob. I used a different approach, but I did get LB to stick before I rotated into portrait. Hope we get some Titans to go with it. F5 party tonight!


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> No prob. I used a different approach, but I did get LB to stick before I rotated into portrait. Hope we get some Titans to go with it. F5 party tonight!


Anything more tricky then getting 2D Lightboost staying working in landscape mode?


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsunamipop*
> 
> Hey guys. Started following these threads a few weeks back as I have been looking to get 120hz monitor. Great stuff. I purchsed the asus vg248qe and am very pleased. Read pixperan to 30 and correctly can enter the test string. I am completely happy with everything. I am curious if I there is a way to keep the 144 hz option. I wanted to be able to test all modes and give my results to those non believers. So far though the 120hz lightboost is fantastic.
> 
> Great job Mark, Vega and the rest of you have been a big help in my decison to go Asus.


No way to have lightboost at 144Hz currently, it's not such a big issue though as 120Hz lightboost is great


----------



## miahallen

I think I just discovered the problem...when I enable "stereoscopic 3D", my frame rate drops by around 30% in iRacing.

Check the attached screenshot...the MSI afterburner monitor shows two benchmark runs (replay file attached). The first one was run with stereoscopic 3D disabled, for the second run I checked the enable box, then manually disabled 3D in game with CTRL+T.

You can see in the screenshot that the first run was averaging around 80fps, where the second run dropped to around 60fps average. Neither run was actually running in stereoscopic 3D.....
...this must be a driver bug, so I'll have to try some of the older driver versions to see. Right now I'm using the latest WHQL 310.90.

For the benchmark, I was following a GT race with 30 cars for one entire lap of Zolder in cockpit view.

iRacing.PNG 260k .PNG file


----------



## tsunamipop

Yea I know there is no 144hz LB. I just wanted to try all of the option out and see the differences for myself. But im happy either way!


----------



## tsunamipop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> No way to have lightboost at 144Hz currently, it's not such a big issue though as 120Hz lightboost is great


I know. Just wanted to keep 144 non LB as an option for personal testing.


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsunamipop*
> 
> I know. Just wanted to keep 144 non LB as an option for personal testing.


would like 144hz myself for more demanding games like bf3. I'm wondering if I should just create custom resolution with 144hz since my monitor already supports 144hz.


----------



## hamzatm

144Hz none lightboost works fine, I'm using it at the moment while I play ARTS games like Dota - no need for motion clarity and the colours are better without lightboost.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> would like 144hz myself for more demanding games like bf3. I'm wondering if I should just create custom resolution with 144hz since my monitor already supports 144hz.


That makes zero sense. 120 Hz Lightboost mode _absolutely destroys_ 144Hz non-LB in motion clarity.


----------



## writer21

Never said it was bad. I've played fast paced shooters like quake on crt for many years. So I can definiely say lightboost is the best thing to come out of lcd tech. But when you can not achieve 120 fps constantly there is a negative side effect. Massive ghosting or double image. Really the best way to explain it. Also with the fps fluctuating it's more noticeable with lightboost on.

Here is where from my experience 144hz or even 120hz non lightboost actually works ok. Bf3 with msi 670 and 3570k cpu can only take you so far. So what I like to do is cap my frames to something lower that way less stuttering shows up. I also hate vsync because of input lag. So on my old 120hz monitor I cap to half of 125 fps which equals 62.5 but I just put 63. Because of doing this I notice much more smoothness then any other framerate limit. I can't use 60 without vsync because of tearing.

Now if I do the same but with 144hz smoothest cap without vsync is 75. But with vsync and half of 144hz I can do. Input lag feels much lower almost like there isn't any and the game is much more smoother at 72 fps than 60 fps. You can see more, blur is less. I can pick up on these little things almost to the point it annoys me.

So you want to say it makes no sense. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm not willing to buy an extra card right now maybe in the future but even I hear sli is not the greatest on BF3 because of CPU power needed. Black Ops 2 and even max payne 3 these games I can achieve 120fps much easier. Max Payne is a bit harder and I do notice more stuttering. But Black ops 2, quake live, mw3 are games which really makes my monitor worth the money and thats all because of lightboost.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> Never said it was bad. I've played fast paced shooters like quake on crt for many years. So I can definiely say lightboost is the best thing to come out of lcd tech. But when you can not achieve 120 fps constantly there is a negative side effect. Massive ghosting or double image. Really the best way to explain it. Also with the fps fluctuating it's more noticeable with lightboost on.
> 
> Here is where from my experience 144hz or even 120hz non lightboost actually works ok. Bf3 with msi 670 and 3570k cpu can only take you so far. So what I like to do is cap my frames to something lower that way less stuttering shows up. I also hate vsync because of input lag. So on my old 120hz monitor I cap to half of 125 fps which equals 62.5 but I just put 63. Because of doing this I notice much more smoothness then any other framerate limit. I can't use 60 without vsync because of tearing.
> 
> Now if I do the same but with 144hz smoothest cap without vsync is 75. But with vsync and half of 144hz I can do. Input lag feels much lower almost like there isn't any and the game is much more smoother at 72 fps than 60 fps. You can see more, blur is less. I can pick up on these little things almost to the point it annoys me.
> 
> So you want to say it makes no sense. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm not willing to buy an extra card right now maybe in the future but even I hear sli is not the greatest on BF3 because of CPU power needed. Black Ops 2 and even max payne 3 these games I can achieve 120fps much easier. Max Payne is a bit harder and I do notice more stuttering. But Black ops 2, quake live, mw3 are games which really makes my monitor worth the money and thats all because of lightboost.


We simply didn't understand the situation, now that you have clarified I can see your point - if I couldn't get to 100FPS (e.g. in BF3) which is the minimum for LB to not have terrible double-image jerkiness problems, then I would set it to 144Hz as well, or whatever lower Hz was suitable depending on game engine, tearing possibility, etc. That is, if I absolutely couldn't live with just lowering BF3 settings to make it run over 100 FPS.

Although if you had a 120Hz monitor that you were running capped at 63 FPS, the question is why didn't you just get a that Asus IPS that can do 72Hz and enjoy the same refresh rate but with all the benefits of IPS. I believe it also has super low input lag for an IPS.


----------



## shedokan

anyone plays competetive cs go and using LB 100/120hz? and are there any pro players using it? since they all have the benq 11T


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> We simply didn't understand the situation, now that you have clarified I can see your point - if I couldn't get to 100FPS (e.g. in BF3) which is the minimum for LB to not have terrible double-image jerkiness problems, then I would set it to 144Hz as well, or whatever lower Hz was suitable depending on game engine, tearing possibility, etc. That is, if I absolutely couldn't live with just lowering BF3 settings to make it run over 100 FPS.
> 
> Although if you had a 120Hz monitor that you were running capped at 63 FPS, the question is why didn't you just get a that Asus IPS that can do 72Hz and enjoy the same refresh rate but with all the benefits of IPS. I believe it also has super low input lag for an IPS.


I don't just use the monitor for BF3. I use it for Black Ops 2, MW3, Quake Live, and Max Payne 3. These games are much easier to keep steady 120 fps. BF3 is the one exception which I play from time to time but struggles to keep up. I like to play BF3 with max graphics. It's such an amazing looking game.


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> anyone plays competetive cs go and using LB 100/120hz? and are there any pro players using it? since they all have the benq 11T


I tried lightboost on cs source. For some reason it didn't look smooth at all. Light boost was enabled but I think I was missing a setting with the game. I barely played cs but wanted to try it. It was almost like I was running at 60hz with lightboost on. I'll try again and see if I can figure it out.


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsunamipop*
> 
> Hey guys. Started following these threads a few weeks back as I have been looking to get 120hz monitor. Great stuff. I purchsed the asus vg248qe and am very pleased. Read pixperan to 30 and correctly can enter the test string. I am completely happy with everything. I am curious if I there is a way to keep the 144 hz option. I wanted to be able to test all modes and give my results to those non believers. So far though the 120hz lightboost is fantastic.
> 
> Great job Mark, Vega and the rest of you have been a big help in my decison to go Asus.


Ok here is what I did since I got tired of waiting for inf to come out. Uinstall lightboost if you installed it already. Reboot then set you monitor to 144hz since it should now be back. Go to nvidia custom resolution and take a picture, write down, or screenshot all the info for your settings on 144hz. With that recorded somewhere then you can now install inf again for lightboost and just create custom resolution with 144hz refresh rate. So basically you're over clocking the monitor I guess but with all the original 144hz settings. So now I can set lightboost on 120hz, and if I don't want that I can set 144hz non lightboost again without uninstalling inf file. Also you want to do all the settings manually.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> Never said it was bad. I've played fast paced shooters like quake on crt for many years. So I can definiely say lightboost is the best thing to come out of lcd tech. But when you can not achieve 120 fps constantly there is a negative side effect. Massive ghosting or double image. Really the best way to explain it. Also with the fps fluctuating it's more noticeable with lightboost on.
> 
> Here is where from my experience 144hz or even 120hz non lightboost actually works ok. Bf3 with msi 670 and 3570k cpu can only take you so far. So what I like to do is cap my frames to something lower that way less stuttering shows up. I also hate vsync because of input lag. So on my old 120hz monitor I cap to half of 125 fps which equals 62.5 but I just put 63. Because of doing this I notice much more smoothness then any other framerate limit. I can't use 60 without vsync because of tearing.
> 
> Now if I do the same but with 144hz smoothest cap without vsync is 75. But with vsync and half of 144hz I can do. Input lag feels much lower almost like there isn't any and the game is much more smoother at 72 fps than 60 fps. You can see more, blur is less. I can pick up on these little things almost to the point it annoys me.
> 
> So you want to say it makes no sense. You're entitled to your opinion. I'm not willing to buy an extra card right now maybe in the future but even I hear sli is not the greatest on BF3 because of CPU power needed. Black Ops 2 and even max payne 3 these games I can achieve 120fps much easier. Max Payne is a bit harder and I do notice more stuttering. But Black ops 2, quake live, mw3 are games which really makes my monitor worth the money and thats all because of lightboost.


Oh yes, you need a fast computer to keep everything humming along at 120+ FPS for proper LB operation.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> anyone plays competetive cs go and using LB 100/120hz? and are there any pro players using it? since they all have the benq 11T


Since CS GO is very easy to reach framerates in excess of 120fps I could see many pro and non-pro gamers using it. Lightboost definitely has a huge advantage in CS type gameplay.

@Writer21
I tried out CS GO just a little and found it to looked the smoothest with LB on and Vsync & triple buffering enabled. I know pro gamers probably won't use Vsync due to the lag introduced, but the lag is so minimal at 120fps I really can't feel it, and I'm sensitive to lag.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Oh yes, you need a fast computer to keep everything humming along at 120+ FPS for proper LB operation.


So how many Titans does that mean your going for with your x3 VG248QE? Hopefully benchmarks tomorrow are good and the 690 performance is matched with an OC'd Titan.

Any progress on the AG removal?


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> Since CS GO is very easy to reach framerates in excess of 120fps I could see many pro and non-pro gamers using it. Lightboost definitely has a huge advantage in CS type gameplay.
> 
> @Writer21
> I tried out CS GO just a little and found it to looked the smoothest with LB on and Vsync & triple buffering enabled. I know pro gamers probably won't use Vsync due to the lag introduced, but the lag is so minimal at 120fps I really can't feel it, and I'm sensitive to lag.
> So how many Titans does that mean your going for with your x3 VG248QE? Hopefully benchmarks tomorrow are good and the 690 performance is matched with an OC'd Titan.
> 
> Any progress on the AG removal?


I am going to start with two Titan's to see how well they run the 3x portrait Lightboost setup and go from there. Going to check to see how the smoothness/performance is, how high they can overclock on air compared to others reports on water. I am not entirely convinced that 4x Titans would give much more of a benefit on my in-development display setup over two. If four Titan's are warranted, I'll get them all and put them under water.

I love my de-matted QE and have two more arriving tomorrow for their surgery. I should have the full 3x LB Portrait gloss setup done this weekend and up and running on my two Classifieds before the Titans arrive next week.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I am going to start with two Titan's to see how well they run the 3x portrait Lightboost setup and go from there. Going to check to see how the smoothness/performance is, how high they can overclock on air compared to others reports on water. I am not entirely convinced that 4x Titans would give much more of a benefit on my in-development display setup over two. If four Titan's are warranted, I'll get them all and put them under water.
> 
> I love my de-matted QE and have two more arriving tomorrow for their surgery. I should have the full 3x LB Portrait gloss setup done this weekend and up and running on my two Classifieds before the Titans arrive next week.


Very nice







Ya same here, to start with 2 Titans. 3-way looks to be pretty impressive as Nvidia has sent 3 to each reviewer.

Looking at de-matting my Asus. What kind of PQ changes did you get after removal?


----------



## CallsignVega

Dramatic. I can't remember which post I put up some pics.


----------



## shedokan

I read somewhere that LB works when cs go is full screen windowed only? That means ill have to change desktop resolution to cs go one and every game will require window mode?;/


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> I read somewhere that LB works when cs go is full screen windowed only? That means ill have to change desktop resolution to cs go one and every game will require window mode?;/


If by every game you mean every game, then no only CS GO or games that need this. But it's strange because CS GO lb worked fine for me fullscreen.

For CS GO it depends how you want to play it, all windowed mode does is keep your desktop resolution and allow you to play the game in an exact-pixel size window. Don't know why you wouldn't play CS GO at native though, with a GTX570 should be more than enough to handle it?


----------



## shedokan

.____.

Hope it will work full screen with 4:3 reso, will test Sunday


----------



## ideaidea

So, first of all. Vega, huge fan.







Thanks for inspiration.

Now, i'm planing to buy a new monitor. Is this image boosting tweak really working? I was considering a korean 27" 1440p witn 60Hz, but now i'm also considering BenQ XL2420T / Asus VG278HE. Will this method work on BenQ since it is much cheaper than Asus?







Thanks! My graphics is 470 SLI tho







.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ideaidea*
> 
> So, first of all. Vega, huge fan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for inspiration.
> 
> Now, i'm planing to buy a new monitor. Is this image boosting tweak really working? I was considering a korean 27" 1440p witn 60Hz, but now i'm also considering BenQ XL2420T / Asus VG278HE. Will this method work on BenQ since it is much cheaper than Asus?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! My graphics is 470 SLI tho
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


There is no reason to get the XL2420T over the XL2411T/Asus VG248QE. It is only more expensive because it comes with the glasses and S-switch, but the motion clarity of the other two is better. If you want 3D as well, just get the XL2411T/VG248QE and separate glasses.

And only get the Asus VG278HE if you must have 27" because otherwise it is subpar compared to the XL2411T/VG248QE in motion clarity with or without the lightboost trick.

Should you go for the lightboost trick or not? It does make a difference especially if you play fast competitive FPS games, then yes go for lightboost. If you prefer RTS, or MOBA, or MMO or something, then it depends... if I didn't have a 120Hz monitor already before I knew about lightboost (once I had one I couldn't live without at least 120Hz) I would definitely have gone and loved a Korean IPS. If you currently use a 60Hz and don't care about really fast-paced competitive FPS, then I would say go Korean.


----------



## Robilar

Interesting. So with a pair of 680's and the Samsung S27A950D I can enable this feature in games such as BF3 and decrease motion blur without losing frame rates?


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robilar*
> 
> Interesting. So with a pair of 680's and the Samsung S27A950D I can enable this feature in games such as BF3 and decrease motion blur without losing frame rates?


I really want to say yes as that's how it is with my XL2411T and single 680, but I haven't tried it on your monitor and card setup myself and for some people apparently following the instructions to the letter doesn't work for them.. so I'll say yes, _in theory_ that is exactly what you will get.

Here are the instructions anyway: http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/samsung/


----------



## ideaidea

So any 120Hz monitor works for this tweak?
Anyway, I will prob go for korean IPS. Playing Skyrim I really want better colors of an IPS screen over high framerate, and there is no chance that I will be able to get 120FPS with my rig. Thanks anyway.
Luckily Catleaps are glossy so I don't have to do a vega treatment.


----------



## Shogon

Man what is up lol, I probably have to uninstall the drivers or something cause lightboost stays on in the desktop but when I load BF3 it goes away haha.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> I really want to say yes as that's how it is with my XL2411T and single 680, but I haven't tried it on your monitor and card setup myself and for some people apparently following the instructions to the letter doesn't work for them.. so I'll say yes, _in theory_ that is exactly what you will get.
> 
> Here are the instructions anyway: http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/samsung/


Adds blue tint and introduces quite a bit of input latency. I havent tried Nvidia LB, but the effect wasn't phenomenal via above method.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Adds blue tint and introduces quite a bit of input latency. I havent tried Nvidia LB, but the effect wasn't phenomenal via above method.


Oh yeah I forgot it adds latency to the Samsungs. Blue tint eh? Didn't know that.


----------



## shedokan

Anyone else than vega got his LB working 24/7 without the emitter?


----------



## hamzatm

Yes its not hard I got it working with three monitors so far.


----------



## amggotleir

So I have a vg248qe and I ran to bit of a problem after applying the lightboost hack as I dont really see any difference compared to normal 144hz, xcept the screen is more dark... I also noticed that on step 7 I don't have such option as "Verify “Enable Stereoscopic 3D settings for all displays” is enabled". I can't even test it because when i start pixperan the screen just flashes couple of times and changes the colors bright and then nothing happens, program doesnt start. so any1 got any ideas whats wrong here :s? and why pixperan just doesnt work or perhaps another program to test the lightboost?


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amggotleir*
> 
> So I have a vg248qe and I ran to bit of a problem after applying the lightboost hack as I dont really see any difference compared to normal 144hz, xcept the screen is more dark... I also noticed that on step 7 I don't have such option as "Verify "Enable Stereoscopic 3D settings for all displays" is enabled". I can't even test it because when i start pixperan the screen just flashes couple of times and changes the colors bright and then nothing happens, program doesnt start.


Running Windows 8 maybe? Pixperan doesn't work on Windows 8


----------



## tsunamipop

got everything working good. but trying to play bf3 I could not get lightboost to stay enabled. it drops the fps way down and not able to do anything


----------



## amggotleir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Running Windows 8 maybe? Pixperan doesn't work on Windows 8


nope, windows 7 :/


----------



## hamzatm

BF3 messes about with lightboost... I'm not sure who has gotten it properly working but try hitting ctrl+t when it drops the fps way down, that should disable 3d mode and keep it in 2d lightboost mode like you want.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsunamipop*
> 
> got everything working good. but trying to play bf3 I could not get lightboost to stay enabled. it drops the fps way down and not able to do anything


Yes i will have that FPS drop sometimes if i use the Ctl T method. The GPU is still thinking the game is in 3d mode hence the huge FPS drop. I have to first get the Lightboost to stick, and then disable stereoscopic 3d in the NVCP. I use the Lightboost on BF3 multiplayer @ 5760x1080 120hz a lot, and its gorgeous.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Adds blue tint and introduces quite a bit of input latency. I havent tried Nvidia LB, but the effect wasn't phenomenal via above method.


Samsung's pretty bad for the latency during strobe backlight mode, so you'll want to look at the BENQ XL2411T variant of LightBoost instead, if possible. I don't feel any input lag with the BENQ.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amggotleir*
> 
> So I have a vg248qe and I ran to bit of a problem after applying the lightboost hack as I dont really see any difference compared to normal 144hz, xcept the screen is more dark...


LightBoost is more noticeable with these operations:

*Game Play styles and moves that benefit the most from LightBoost*
-- Fast 180-degree flick turns in FPS shooting.
-- Shooting while turning, without stopping turning (easier on CRT or LightBoost)
-- Close-up strafing, especially circle strafing, you aim better.
-- Running while looking at the ground (e.g. hunting for tiny objects quickly).
-- Identifying multiple far-away enemies or small targets, while turning fast
-- Playing fast characters such as "Scout" in Team Fortress 2
-- High-speed low passes, such as low helicoptor flybys in Battlefield 3, you aim better.

Basically, anything that creates ultra-fast motion, that you used to easily track with CRT, but can't do as well with LCD. (Although some people here today, have never played on a CRT)


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> anyone plays competetive cs go and using LB 100/120hz? and are there any pro players using it? since they all have the benq 11T


Team Exile 5, a professional competition team (sponsorted team that gets free hardware and sponsored T-Shirts), loves LightBoost. See their review at the bottom of Media Coverage.

He plays Counterstrike:GO and CoD4
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spachla*
> As shown in the video, with Lightboost disabled, each frame bleeds into the next due to the top-to-bottom refresh method of modern day LCDs. With Lightboost on, however, the backlight is switched on and off per refresh which almost eliminates bleeding frames; similar to a CRT monitor.
> As you can gather, it is in the interest of competitive gamers to reduce motion blur as much as possible (especially for FPS gamers).This empowers you to see vital in-game details clearly, even when moving fast, which otherwise would have blurred into the background. In the top end of competition, this can mean the difference between winning or losing a match.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spachla*
> Who Am I?
> I am the captain of the Call of Duty 4 division for Team Exile5 and have been competing in eSports for over 7 years. Alongside my team, *I have won multiple tournaments at a National level* and am currently working in the IT industry.


http://www.team-exile5.org/J25/reviews/nvidia/88-spachala-nvidia-geforce-gtx-660-ti-review


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsunamipop*
> 
> I know. Just wanted to keep 144 non LB as an option for personal testing.


This weekend, I will have a new .INF file that enables a 144 Hz non-LightBoost mode. Keep tuned!

It will make it easier to turn on/off LightBoost simply by switching between 120Hz and 144Hz (which can quickly be done by a tool such as MultiRes or other utility)


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> BF3 messes about with lightboost... I'm not sure who has gotten it properly working but try hitting ctrl+t when it drops the fps way down, that should disable 3d mode and keep it in 2d lightboost mode like you want.


I was able to make LightBoost stick by installing the INF and .reg files, then going to the nVidia Control Panel and disabling the "3D stereoscopic" checkbox. If the checkbox disables without disabling LightBoost, now you can launch your games and play with LightBoost enabled, and you no longer need to press Control+T.


----------



## Arc0s

Hey mdr do you think that there will be 144hz lightboost in the future? Does it depend on nvidia to enable it?


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> This weekend, I will have a new .INF file that enables a 144 Hz non-LightBoost mode. Keep tuned!
> 
> It will make it easier to turn on/off LightBoost simply by switching between 120Hz and 144Hz (which can quickly be done by a tool such as MultiRes or other utility)


Haha, I read that too fast and thought you said you found a way to enable 144 Hz LB. Got my attention until I re-read the sentence!


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> This weekend, I will have a new .INF file that enables a 144 Hz non-LightBoost mode. Keep tuned!
> 
> It will make it easier to turn on/off LightBoost simply by switching between 120Hz and 144Hz (which can quickly be done by a tool such as MultiRes or other utility)


Or they can just get their original timings and settings for 144hz, install inf and reg hack, then create custom resolution with 144hz and original settings.


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> Hey mdr do you think that there will be 144hz lightboost in the future? Does it depend on nvidia to enable it?


Would like a 60hz lightboost as well if it's possible for more demanding games. Wonder how it would look.


----------



## Swolern

Hey Mark. Do you think we will ever get Nvidia to officially support 2d Lightboost? Have you or anyone else been in contact with them?


----------



## hammerforged

I just tried this out today for the first time ever and WOW









Thanks for all your work on this! It was hard to get working at first because I mainly play BF3 but once I disabled it then it locked in it seemed to work.

I would love to see official support from Nvidia on this but it might be hard to get. Anyways great job! If anyone know any other tips for BF3 let me know.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> Hey Mark. Do you think we will ever get Nvidia to officially support 2d Lightboost? Have you or anyone else been in contact with them?


I will eventually put together a consortium of key people (myself, several sponsored competition gamers, several reviewers such as pcmonitors.info, and several others) to lobby nVidia to provide an easy-to-enable feature. I strongly believe it will sell more nVidia cards than 3D Vision Kits, if advertised correctly. I'm going to wait until I've launched my motion tests before I do this, since the motion tests will massively help this cause.

If any _key_ people (high level competition gamers who compete professional, people in graphics industry, reviewers, even monitor manufacturers, etc) would like to join this group to petition nVidia to provide an easy LightBoost-enable feature in nVidia drivers, I'd like to know.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> Or they can just get their original timings and settings for 144hz, install inf and reg hack, then create custom resolutio n with 144hz and original settings.


That does not work. Attempting to create 144 Hz, results in an error message saying that 144 Hz is not supported (even though the display actually supports it).


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> I will eventually put together a consortium of key people (myself, several sponsored competition gamers, several reviewers such as pcmonitors.info, and several others) to lobby nVidia to provide an easy-to-enable feature. I strongly believe it will sell more nVidia cards than 3D Vision Kits, if advertised correctly. I'm going to wait until I've launched my motion tests before I do this, since the motion tests will massively help this cause.
> 
> If any _key_ people (high level competition gamers who compete professional, people in graphics industry, reviewers, even monitor manufacturers, etc) would like to join this group to petition nVidia to provide an easy LightBoost-enable feature in nVidia drivers, I'd like to know.


You can count me in for that. I would also like to see more support from the manufacturers themselves to support this sort of thing regardless of GPU vendor. At least Nvidia are supporting the technology quite actively at the moment (even if for its 3D benefits) and I think that any broader adoption of this for 2D would send a strong message to AMD and the monitor manufacturers themselves.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammerforged*
> 
> I just tried this out today for the first time ever and WOW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for all your work on this! It was hard to get working at first because I mainly play BF3 but once I disabled it then it locked in it seemed to work.
> 
> I would love to see official support from Nvidia on this but it might be hard to get. Anyways great job! If anyone know any other tips for BF3 let me know.


Optimal settings would be framerate close to 120FPS. (Turn down graphics settings if needed) Contrast to 92, Lightboost to 10%, Complete dark room(due to lower lit monitor), Vegas de-matting procedure for better color and increased brightness


----------



## whybother

I can't see a 2D LightBoost toggle ever being offered by nVidia. If it's little more than a signal sent to the monitor, AMD would have no legal issue offering it too. While LightBoost is tied to 3DVision, they can't.


----------



## PCM2

I am not particularly bothered about 'LightBoost' being implemented in this way but would certainly like to see strobing/scanning backlights which do a similar thing implemented more readily. Samsung's FS mode being a good example.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whybother*
> 
> I can't see a 2D LightBoost toggle ever being offered by nVidia. If it's little more than a signal sent to the monitor, AMD would have no legal issue offering it too. While LightBoost is tied to 3DVision, they can't.


This will not stop an attempt to lobby nVidia at some point later this year. If that fails, at least there are other options such as creating a third party utility (after creating an Arduino DDC/CI capture device to record all commands transmitted between computer and monitor). However, it'd be better if nVidia support this in an official, endorsed manner.


----------



## mdrejhon

Beta testers of this INF file wanted. This INF file benefits users of BENQ XL2411T, ASUS VG248QE, and ASUS VG278H*E*.

New INF file that enables:
- 120 Hz LightBoost
- 144 Hz NON-lightboost

-> For people who always keep the "3D Stereoscopic" checkbox enabled at all times (those of you who hit Control+T when entering a game), turning on/off LightBoost is as simple as switching between 120 Hz (LB) and 144 Hz (non-LB), and you can use a utility such as MultiRes to have easy switching of LightBoost on/off.

-> For people who want LightBoost to stick without stereoscopic 3D (so you don't have to hit Control+T), you need to enable-Apply-and-then-disable-Apply the "3D Stereoscopic" checkbox in nVidia Control Panel, everytime you switch back to 120 Hz. This will keep LightBoost running, be Battlefield 3 compatible, and eliminate the need for hitting Control+T when you launch a game. MultiRes can still be used, to speed things up a bit.

LightBoost-compatible INF file that now supports 144 Hz NON-LightBoost:
www.blurbusters.com/files/LightBoost-Monitor-EDID-override.inf


----------



## hamzatm

I've been using an inf with 144Hz support and 120Hz lightboost for a month now, got it off some genius from an early post in this thread.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1339384/zero-motion-blur-lcd-nvidia-lightboost2-hack-looks-like-crt-looks-like-480hz/150_50#post_18938171

Wonderful inf file


----------



## hammerforged

Im still having some trouble with BF3.

Im using an Asus VG278HE. I was able to get light boost to stick by unchecking the 3d box but once I enter BF3 in full screen it disables light boost. If I alt-tab to the desktop light boost is back.

Light boost will work if BF3 is in windowed mode.

Any help is much appreciated. Thank you.


----------



## xTweetyBird

Would I be able to do this without the glasses emitter?


----------



## Arc0s

I have tried every single method described to use lightboost in game without hitting crtl+t so far none have worked, I get lightboost on desktop but when I start a game it turns off. The only way I have made lightboost work is by leaving "enable stereoscopic 3D" checked and then hitting ctrl+t in game.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xTweetyBird*
> 
> Would I be able to do this without the glasses emitter?


Yes.


----------



## xTweetyBird

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Yes.


Oh, I see how you do it. It says that I also need the latest driver, but I can't use it because of my secondary card not being able to support it. Would I still be able to do it with the 307.74 driver?


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammerforged*
> 
> Im still having some trouble with BF3.
> 
> Im using an Asus VG278HE. I was able to get light boost to stick by unchecking the 3d box but once I enter BF3 in full screen it disables light boost. If I alt-tab to the desktop light boost is back.
> 
> Light boost will work if BF3 is in windowed mode.
> 
> Any help is much appreciated. Thank you.


You most likely have some other resolution/Hz set in BF3. It must be set to [email protected] or else LB will turn off every time a different resolutio and/or frequency is detected. As a matter of fact I am going to modify the registry entries with CRU.exe to have 1920x1080P @ 120 Hz the default and only resolution.


----------



## hammerforged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> You most likely have some other resolution/Hz set in BF3. It must be set to [email protected] or else LB will turn off every time a different resolutio and/or frequency is detected. As a matter of fact I am going to modify the registry entries with CRU.exe to have 1920x1080P @ 120 Hz the default and only resolution.


Thanks for the reply Vega. Yeah I was thinking something like that might be causing it since I switched from 144hz to 120hz without resetting it. Ill try to reset my game file and see if that helps.

Edit: Got it to work. The key binding for ctrl-t was assigned to something else I suppose because changing it allowed me to toggle it now and works in full screen.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xTweetyBird*
> 
> Oh, I see how you do it. It says that I also need the latest driver, but I can't use it because of my secondary card not being able to support it. Would I still be able to do it with the 307.74 driver?


Not sure what you mean, but follow the guide on Marks blog. It's linked on the first post of this thread

You can use the older driver too afaik.


----------



## Ryld Baenre

Is it difficult to revert your monitor back to the original settings after applying the regedit and INF files and going through with the tweak?


----------



## hamzatm

Nah it's easy to revert and has no lasting effects


----------



## hammerforged

Would anyone be interested in a "how to" recording of the install process? I have some desktop recording software and wouldn't mind making a quick video.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammerforged*
> 
> Would anyone be interested in a "how to" recording of the install process? I have some desktop recording software and wouldn't mind making a quick video.


Sounds like a good idea, perhaps Mark would post it on his blog too?


----------



## shedokan

F4 readbility test

at what speed you should be able to read clearly with LB?


----------



## whybother

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> F4 readbility test
> 
> at what speed you should be able to read clearly with LB?


Until your eyes pop out (ie max, 30).


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> F4 readbility test
> 
> at what speed you should be able to read clearly with LB?


At 10% lightboost the full text of speed 30. You need to help your eyes by moving your head from side to side as you read, eyes alone is too difficult


----------



## shedokan

very hard to pick up the whole word for me at 30


----------



## Ryld Baenre

When I right click on the INF and press "install" followed by "open" I get an install error. It says " The INF file you selected does not support this method of installation". This looked like a really simple task :/ Just a few easy clicks. Somehow I have managed to bungle it up.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ryld Baenre*
> 
> When I right click on the INF and press "install" followed by "open" I get an install error. It says " The INF file you selected does not support this method of installation". This looked like a really simple task :/ Just a few easy clicks. Somehow I have managed to bungle it up.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ryld Baenre*
> 
> When I right click on the INF and press "install" followed by "open" I get an install error. It says " The INF file you selected does not support this method of installation". This looked like a really simple task :/ Just a few easy clicks. Somehow I have managed to bungle it up.


You're doing it the wrong way, gotta go into device manager.

Right click your monitor, update driver

You need to select the driver manually, "let me choose from list of installed drivers" and all that, and when you get to the screen which has a button labelled have disk, you click have disk. Browse to your driver and install it. voila


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> You're doing it the wrong way, gotta go into device manager.
> 
> Right click your monitor, update driver
> 
> You need to select the driver manually, "let me choose from list of installed drivers" and all that, and when you get to the screen which has a button labelled have disk, you click have disk. Browse to your driver and install it. voila


Yep -- that's another good method of installing the INF file.

I like right clicking to install the INF file because it puts it as part of the preinstalled monitors list. But apparently, not everyone is able to easily pre-install the INF file by right clicking on it before going to Device Manager.

There are apparently somewhat different steps for Windows 7 systems than for Windows 8 systems, which complicates the instructions a bit. I wish that nVidia would provide an easy driver toggle, making it as easy as turning on/off VSYNC or AA. (we'll need to lobby nVidia sometime this year). That would eliminate all of the INF and REG nonsense in getting this feature enabled!


----------



## Ryld Baenre

Well god damn. There it goes! Thank you very much! Turns out your video how-to isn't such a bad idea after all







Now to test it out









I have my contrast set to 65 on my XL2420T and it seems like a nice balance between what I had before and the darker screen after. Anything higher and the whites on icons such as PDFs and excel files gets washed out.


----------



## shedokan

120Hz 10% LB PixPerAn readbility test at speed of 16

with non LB 144Hz would I be able to pick up correctly? I wanna compare the two but using 144Hz again doesnt seem to work


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> 120Hz 10% LB PixPerAn readbility test at speed of 16
> 
> with non LB 144Hz would I be able to pick up correctly? I wanna compare the two but using 144Hz again doesnt seem to work


If all you can manage is 16 your lightboost definitely is not working.

16 sounds like the maximum non-lightboost setting, are you sure PixPerAn is running at 120 frames per second?


----------



## shedokan

yes says 120 at top

could read correctly at speed of 21 now, but dont think ill ever be able to read at 30.. perhaps thats because ive been using laggy 60Hz LCD monitors since for ever


----------



## Ryld Baenre

I just went through and did 20 no problem. I got half way through 25 and timed out







I think this may have made the colors better on my monitor as well. Very pleased I did this.

edit**

I really cannot believe the difference this made in the colour quality on this monitor. Everything looks so much better and Crysis 3 looks like a totally new game now. Wow.


----------



## shedokan

vega/mark at what speed you can read correctly with 144 non LB?


----------



## hammerforged

How the heck can you all read at anything above 16 ish ha. I'm pretty positive light boost is on because the monitor is in 3D mode once I go into the menu.


----------



## shedokan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> If all you can manage is 16 your lightboost definitely is not working.
> 
> 16 sounds like the maximum non-lightboost setting, are you sure PixPerAn is running at 120 frames per second?


well now testing 144Hz non LB theres no way for me to read at speed 20, too blurry. also 16 is quite hard blurry so i find this hard to believe _*If all you can manage is 16 your lightboost definitely is not working.*_


----------



## Arc0s

Reading at 16 with lightboost should be easy, if it's blurry then lightboost is not working.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> could read correctly at speed of 21 now, but dont think ill ever be able to read at 30.. perhaps thats because ive been using laggy 60Hz LCD monitors since for ever


Not everyone can speed-read fast enough to read PixPerAn 30, but I can confirm that both Vega and I are able to read PixPerAn 30. (Windows XP or 7). Windows 8 doesn't work well with PixPerAn, though!
Still, even 21 is way beyond what non-LightBoost LCD can do.
It will become easier to read PixPerAn if you turn your head while reading the text; that's how I can read at speed 30.

I can't get all the way to speed 16 at any non-LighBoost refresh rate (60Hz, 120Hz, 144Hz).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammerforged*
> 
> How the heck can you all read at anything above 16 ish ha. I'm pretty positive light boost is on because the monitor is in 3D mode once I go into the menu.


Turn your head while reading the text.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ryld Baenre*
> 
> I just went through and did 20 no problem. I got half way through 25 and timed out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think this may have made the colors better on my monitor as well. Very pleased I did this.
> edit**
> I really cannot believe the difference this made in the colour quality on this monitor. Everything looks so much better and Crysis 3 looks like a totally new game now. Wow.


Interesting. LightBoost usually degrades colors, but obviously, it improved the colors on your model -- perhaps it is using better color defaults on your model of monitor during LightBoost.

Are you playing Crysis 3 at a full [email protected]? (I imagine you need to adjust details levels down and use a high end SLI to pull that off!). As we already know, LigthBoost performs best for fps=Hz gaming though even playing at >60-80fps often still look more beneficial under LightBoost than non-LightBoost, though it depends on how juddery it looks. I'm interested to hear your comments. Have you also tried out other games, like a source engine game, for the complete full motion effect (fps=Hz or fps>Hz)?

Glad you like it; interesting comments!


----------



## Ryld Baenre

Well the colours are well known to be quite awful on the XL2420T so I think as you mentioned it is using better colour defaults. It wasn't something I expected but it was a drastic difference. I have been using this monitor since june of last year so I have had plenty of time to get used to the colours on it and where they are lacking. Initially everything was quite dark but once I upped the contrast to 65 it worked perfect.

Yes to the Crysis 3 question. Single player I run at maxed everything because it looks awesome but in multiplayer I drop all the settings to their lowest so that I can get the 120 Hz advantage I paid for with my monitor. I limit the FPS via precision-x to producing no more than the 120 frames my monitor is capable of displaying. I ran into an odd bug though while playing. I noticed that my FPS was halved down to 60 FPS and once I enabled and then disabled 3Dvision it returned back to 120 Hz. I only noticed it once and will keep an eye out but thought I would mention it. This shouldn't impact my FPS at all, correct? I don't have any source engine games but with running crysis 3 at 120+ FPS would it make a difference if I tried one or not? I have steam with a copy of CS that I haven't touched in years and could give it a go if you think it may shed light on soemthing.


----------



## hammerforged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Turn your head while reading the text.


Ha I finally got it. I can only imagine how dumb I looked.









I was able to get around 21 and some of 22. Anything more and this big ole head wouldn't turn quick enough.


----------



## shedokan

Yeah mark but what about the 144Hz LCDs in particular at speed of 21, would it be possible to read? Would you say that 16 is the max non LB for u as well?


----------



## shedokan

after I enable LB mode and rsed my comp it goes back to non LB :l any idea?

*fixed it*

apparently the new file that should enable switching between 144Hz non LB and 120Hz LB didnt make LB "stick" for me, while the old file did


----------



## tsunamipop

I can't read much past 7 or 8when non lightboost 120/144hz. But 30 easily on lightboost.


----------



## chuckinbeast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsunamipop*
> 
> I can't read much past 7 or 8when non lightboost 120/144hz. But 30 easily on lightboost.


Holy S! For real? Thats incredible and you must personally be sensitive to blur. Interesting how big of an impact it can have.


----------



## Arc0s

I can't read past 8 either with LB off.


----------



## shedokan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chuckinbeast*
> 
> Holy S! For real? Thats incredible and you must personally be sensitive to blur. Interesting how big of an impact it can have.


It does have a huge impact if you try to compare scrolling text/pixperan readiblity with any 120-144Hz screen and 120Hz LB, I'm able to read at 30 clearly with LB but its hard to write it down perfectly.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chuckinbeast*
> 
> Holy S! For real? Thats incredible and you must personally be sensitive to blur. Interesting how big of an impact it can have.


I can also personally confirm PixPerAn 30 too. CallSignVega has also confirmed this as well. It's almost too fast to read; you do need to turn your head while the text moves. Here are the motion comparisions of different modes on the SAME display:

*PixPerAn Tests on BENQ XL2411T and ASUS VG278H*

*baseline* - 60 Hz mode (_16.7ms frame samples_)
*50% less motion blur (2x clearer)* - 120 Hz mode (_8.33ms frame samples_)
*60% less motion blur (2.4x clearer)* - 144 Hz mode (_6.94ms frame samples_)
*85% less motion blur (7x clearer)* - 120 Hz with LightBoost at 100% (_2.4ms strobe flashes_)
*92% less motion blur (12x clearer)* - 120 Hz with LightBoost at 10% (_1.4ms strobe flashes_)

Instead of a frame displayed for 16.7 milliseconds continuously on a normal 60 Hz LCD, you've got a 1.4 millisecond strobe flash of the frame. This results in 12x less motion blur. This makes motion look as clear as CRT even for the most sensitive people, since phosphor decay is commonly 1 to 2 milliseconds.


----------



## mdrejhon

The LightBoost HOWTO has been updated with some new tips:
Quote:


> *TIP: Improving Convenience, Stability & Eliminating "Control+T"*
> First, verify LightBoost is working by verifying for reduced motion blur, and Step 4 was already followed. Next, you can make LightBoost "stick" by going to nVidia Control Panel and disabling the "Enable Stereoscopic 3D" checkbox (see Step 8 above). If the screen did not flicker when doing this, LightBoost is still enabled even after disabling 3D!
> - Games launch in 2D without needing Control+T
> - Driver stability is improved in this mode, less freezing occurs.
> - VSYNC OFF now works much more reliably, reducing input lag.
> (Note: Some games may automatically switch resolutions; make sure it stays at 120 Hz)
> 
> *TIP: Turning Off The LightBoost Hack Without Uninstalling:*
> To turn off LightBoost:
> 1. Turn off the "Enable Stereoscopic 3D" checkbox in nVidia Control Panel
> 2. Switch to 60 Hz mode, then switch back to 120 Hz (or 144 Hz).
> You can use a system tray utility such as MultiRes to do this more quickly.


The HOWTO now has the new INF file that supports the non-strobe 144 Hz mode (no LightBoost):
http://www.blurbusters.com/files/LightBoost-Monitor-EDID-override.inf
This allows users to more easily turn on/off LightBoost by switching to 60 Hz then back to 120 Hz or 144 Hz, without needing to uninstall the INF file.


----------



## shedokan

is it normal if i get somewhat sort of flicker when scroll fast?


----------



## Falkentyne

The day someone manages to hack the firmware or release a way for this to work on AMD cards (without needing the samsungs) wiill be a very happy day indeed.


----------



## CallsignVega

Crap, testing 3x portrait LB Surround and having a heck of a time trying to get games to launch and not kick-off LB. I can get 3x portrait LB Surround to work fine on the desktop but it's like the games switch to some slightly different 120 Hz 3240x1920 resolution or something and kick LB off. Funny thing is once the games is closed and goes back to desktop LB turns back on. So frustrating!


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> The day someone manages to hack the firmware or release a way for this to work on AMD cards (without needing the samsungs) wiill be a very happy day indeed.


There's been some research on DDC/CI using Entech SoftMCCS beginning at *post 494 of HardForum thread*. So far, the most successful DDC command is 03 FA 00 0A (from post 572) which enables the strobe backlight mode on the XL2420T but doesn't correctly fix the pixel response curve to stay synchronized with the strobe. SoftMCCS command final byte 00 through 0A adjusts the LightBoost OSD setting from 0% through 100%. We need more SoftMCCS guinea pigs to crack the DDC/CI puzzle, so a software utility can be made.

It should improve convenient for nVidia users, so for nVidia users, the Plan B is to instead petition nVidia to make this an official driver toggle; I think nVidia would rather do this (and lessen developer pressure to create a utility) than let AMD get all the LightBoost goodness.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> is it normal if i get somewhat sort of flicker when scroll fast?


Also, if the flicker is abnormal (double-image like [email protected]), try hitting Control+T while at the Desktop. That usually fixes things.

If this isn't the cause, and if everything looks perfectly clear when you track eyes on smooth moving objects, then this just might be the stroboscopic stepping effect especially if it's not scrolling in perfectly smooth steps (Chromium Smooth Scroller helps, and using scrollwheel). These stroboscopic effects also happens on a CRT or plasma too. If you are very distracted by this CRT style behavior, you can turn it off at desktop usage, and only use LightBoost within video games.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Crap, testing 3x portrait LB Surround and having a heck of a time trying to get games to launch and not kick-off LB. I can get 3x portrait LB Surround to work fine on the desktop but it's like the games switch to some slightly different 120 Hz 3240x1920 resolution or something and kick LB off. Funny thing is once the games is closed and goes back to desktop LB turns back on. So frustrating!


Does this happen regardless of whether you enable/disable the Stereoscopic 3D checkbox? I'd like to help you troubleshoot this, because there might be a second person (who just got a pair of Titan's) considering surround gaming with LightBoost.

Another idea is to download NVInspector.exe and trying to override the resolution, so that it stays at the same resolution at desktop.

Also google "3D Vision surround"; those instructions also help quite a lot.

Let me know if I'm helping any?


----------



## shedokan

well the slight flicker doesnt happen unless theres alot of pictures on some page im watching, but scroling this topic for example Chromium Smooth Scroller , and using scrollwheel, the text can look somewhat bold while scrolling


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Does this happen regardless of whether you enable/disable the Stereoscopic 3D checkbox? I'd like to help you troubleshoot this, because there might be a second person (who just got a pair of Titan's) considering surround gaming with LightBoost.
> 
> Another idea is to download NVInspector.exe and trying to override the resolution, so that it stays at the same resolution at desktop.
> 
> Also google "3D Vision surround"; those instructions also help quite a lot.
> 
> Let me know if I'm helping any?


Yes, tried both ways. If the check-mark is selected, it will disable rotation to portrait. Either with or without the check-mark, after reboot LB is disabled (something that worked single screen). I was able to get around the resolution problem and games kicking out of LB on single screen by using CRU.exe and setting the resolution manually. I also tried custom-bezel corrected resolutions and it still kicks it off.

That doesn't work anymore as you cannot set the Surround resolution as the way the NVIDIA drivers via surround and work with Windows is very different. I need to find a way to remove all of those hundreds of trash resolutions that are created by Windows under "list all resolutions". I'll try NVInspector and a few other things but I am not hopeful. LB is just too easy to kick off with all of these variables interacting in Surround. I've also ordered an emitter to hard-ware that in and not rely on the modified .inf's. At least that will eliminate one variable.

So is there no more progress finding out what signal the NVIDIA drivers are sending to the monitor to tell them to turn on LB? Some program/utility would be immensely helpful in stuff like this not having to rely on buggy drivers etc.


----------



## chuckinbeast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> There's been some research on DDC/CI using Entech SoftMCCS beginning at *post 494 of HardForum thread*. So far, the most successful DDC command is 03 FA 00 0A (from post 572) which enables the strobe backlight mode on the XL2420T but doesn't correctly fix the pixel response curve to stay synchronized with the strobe. SoftMCCS command final byte 00 through 0A adjusts the LightBoost OSD setting from 0% through 100%. We need more SoftMCCS guinea pigs to crack the DDC/CI puzzle, so a software utility can be made.
> 
> It should improve convenient for nVidia users, so for nVidia users, the Plan B is to instead petition nVidia to make this an official driver toggle; I think nVidia would rather do this (and lessen developer pressure to create a utility) than let AMD get all the LightBoost goodness.
> Also, if the flicker is abnormal (double-image like [email protected]), try hitting Control+T while at the Desktop. That usually fixes things.


Sooooo.......what you are saying is that I shouldn't sell my 7970s+EK Water blocks quite yet in favor of a Titan? You crazy computer geniuses are going to come up with a way to get this to work with AMD????

Also, if someone is taking up a collection for donations on making this work with AMD.....I'll pitch in some money and love you long time.


----------



## tsunamipop

I finally am able to get lightboost to stick in bf3. I have had no problems any other times. following the directions enabling stereo3d applying then unchecking the box worked for any of my 2d games but would kick bf3 out of lb. I was stuck using ctrl t to play. this is how I got it to work.

enable stereo 3d
apply
uncheck stereo 3d
do not apply.

started bf3 and lb was enabled without having to ctrl t.

I left nvidia panel open and stereo 3d unchecked

restarted my pc without applying or closing nvidia panel.

on restart lb was still enabled and bf3 launched with lb and no ctrl t.

don't know if those steps would help Vega since I have no clue about portrait surround. I will leave it up to you big dogs.


----------



## shedokan

pressing ctrl+t doing nothing for me, LB is just on 24/7. even If I changed a resolution other than 1080p

CTRL + T should take LB on/off or wat?


----------



## tsunamipop

eh...nevermind on that....doesn't seem to be working now :\


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> That doesn't work anymore as you cannot set the Surround resolution as the way the NVIDIA drivers via surround and work with Windows is very different. I need to find a way to remove all of those hundreds of trash resolutions that are created by Windows under "list all resolutions". I'll try NVInspector and a few other things but I am not hopeful. LB is just too easy to kick off with all of these variables interacting in Surround. I've also ordered an emitter to hard-ware that in and not rely on the modified .inf's. At least that will eliminate one variable.


LB has been working fairly easily for me in surround, portrait or landscape with the emitters. So the inf files could be the problem.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Does your LB "stick" in Surround mode even after a reboot? Do you have the 3d check mark enabled or disabled? Could you by chance test the portrait surround LB in something other than BF3 and see if it sticks and after a reboot too?


Using 314.07 drivers LB sticks to only one screen with reboot with 3d checked or unchecked in NVCP. This is only after LB is activated previous to reboot. Must be a driver quirk because LB would stay enabled to all 3 screens with older drivers, 310.xx i believe.

Post reboot all i do is check 3d box again, launch my 3d test app to get the LB to stick to all screens again and then disable 3d.

Started up Hitman in Portrait. Upon start-up the LB kicked off. I noticed default refresh was set to 60hz. Changed the refresh to 120hz and the LB kicked back on. Started game and it ran fine 3240x1920 @ 120hz.


----------



## CallsignVega

Great, thanks for the tests. Have the Titans installed now, going to play around and see what I get. I have the emitter arriving tomorrow too, hopefully that will help out the variables situation.


----------



## cardan

Another way to quickly test to see if lightboost is actually working right away is to shake your hand up and down in front of your monitor. You'll see what I mean.


----------



## shedokan

What? LOL


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cardan*
> 
> Another way to quickly test to see if lightboost is actually working right away is to shake your hand up and down in front of your monitor. You'll see what I mean.


You've been watching too much porn bud.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> What? LOL


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> You've been watching too much porn bud.


It's a perfectly valid way to see if lightboost is enabled and working, Mdrejhon already mentioned this. Waving your hand in front of your screen will let you see the flicker, he said its called a stroboscopic effect.


----------



## Assirra

So i found this thread and was interested but then i found out that for some reason ASUS was missing in the drive manufacturer list.

Any idea what is going on and how to fix it?


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Assirra*
> 
> So i found this thread and was interested but then i found out that for some reason ASUS was missing in the drive manufacturer list.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any idea what is going on and how to fix it?


Yes, you need to download a custom inf file (linked on marks blog, and blurbusters.com), and on the screen you screenshot click "have disk" and browse to the custom inf.


----------



## Assirra

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Yes, you need to download a custom inf file (linked on marks blog, and blurbusters.com), and on the screen you screenshot click "have disk" and browse to the custom inf.


Oh wow, i missed the on disk thingie, silly mistake








thanks for the quick answer.


----------



## hammerforged

Made a quick little Howto video.

Mark

If for some reason you don't want this video up and were planning on making your own just give me a shout. I really don't mind to take it down.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammerforged*
> 
> Made a quick little Howto video.
> 
> Mark
> 
> If for some reason you don't want this video up and were planning on making your own just give me a shout. I really don't mind to take it down.


Blur Busters is very happy to blog about very good end-user tips; so a link will be posted as a blog entry and in the comments at the bottom.


----------



## Derp

Any news at all about getting lightboost enabled for AMD cards? I have a new build in my shopping cart but Nvidia's current lineup has a terrible bang for the buck ratio when compared to AMD at each price point.


----------



## writer21

Ya working on getting this to work on 60hz?


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> Ya working on getting this to work on 60hz?


Extremely unlikely I'm afraid, I certainly wouldn't count on it


----------



## cardan

Has anyone had trouble getting this to stick in TF2? I enable stereoscopic 3D, start tf2, hold CTRL+T until the lag goes away, exit TF2, (Lightboost is now enabled on my desktop just how I want it to), uncheck stereoscopic 3D, go back into tf2 but lightboost gets disabled. I've already tried forcing the refresh rate and resolution in the launch settings for the game but it wont stick. I can play tf2 in lightboost without having to exit and uncheck the stereoscopic option first but I get some pretty terrible input lag. Lightboost works fine on my desktop and Quake Live though. I'm using the new ASUS 144hz btw.

PS. I apologize if this is badly written. I've been up all night for work so I haven't got much of a chance to sleep. Don't really feel like proof-reading...


----------



## hamzatm

Find Vega's post showing his custom refresh settings on a program called CRU, I think its like 30 posts back in this thread or something?

If you set yours up the same way it fixes most problems people have getting lightboost to stick.


----------



## cardan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Find Vega's post showing his custom refresh settings on a program called CRU, I think its like 30 posts back in this thread or something?
> 
> If you set yours up the same way it fixes most problems people have getting lightboost to stick.


I remember seeing that somewhere around here too. I can't seem to be able to find it though. Maybe I'm just really blind, or tired, or both.









EDIT: Found it. It was on the ASUS monitor's thread, not this one


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Find Vega's post showing his custom refresh settings on a program called CRU, I think its like 30 posts back in this thread or something?
> 
> If you set yours up the same way it fixes most problems people have getting lightboost to stick.


I wish that same proceedure would work for portrait Surround. Been having a hell of a time trying to get it to work.


----------



## shedokan

Are you using the new INF file? try with the Asus-VG278H-3D-Monitor-EDID-override


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Samsung's pretty bad for the latency during strobe backlight mode, so you'll want to look at the BENQ XL2411T variant of LightBoost instead, if possible.


I have vg248qe


----------



## cardan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I wish that same proceedure would work for portrait Surround. Been having a hell of a time trying to get it to work.


Hey Vega, you have any idea why it might not be sticking in TF2? I used your settings in CRU (or rather, I copied everything exactly as I saw in that screenshot. I didn't really see what that did). But the settings refuse to stick. The only way I've gotten lightboost to work on TF2 was to leave stereoscopic 3D checked but like I said before, it introduces really bad input lag. It's probably something stupid I'm missing on my part.


----------



## hamzatm

You did restart after setting CRU right?


----------



## cardan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> You did restart after setting CRU right?


Like I said, it was probably something stupid on my part. Lol, thanks!


----------



## shedokan

Graphics mode: 1920x1080 @ 32 bpp
Frame rate: 120.0 Hz

Readability: Tempo 30

been randomly running it once a day past week, finally read at 30 without running out of time or miss a letter or two


----------



## Snakesoul

Hi there,

So i bought this monitor and i tried the lightboost, but i didn't like it (well i got a gtx 560 and for some games it won't stick to 120hz and also the vsync feels awkward on gaming)...
so anyone can tell me how to undo what i did? (at device manager i can see it's benq xl 2411t in the driver menu, but on nvidia it still thinks it's an Asus.. picture is brighter and i just want to put it like default). Sorry for this questions..,
Thanks in advance









Edit: so i could fix it







i roll back the driver and uninstall\installed the nvidia driver again and it's ok now









Thanks in advance


----------



## cardan

So I set it all up properly now and have lightboost on 24/7. The only thing I've noticed is that now lightboost is working but it's producing this weird 'second frame'. I'm not sure if that's how it was before I forced it 24/7 but it feels like it's not as perfect as before. Anyone else notice this?


----------



## CallsignVega

2D Lightboost Portrait Surround:










Still doing some tweaking.


----------



## hammerforged

Nice job Vega!

What was the key to get it working correctly?


----------



## CallsignVega

I am not a religious man. But... OH MY GOD. Somehow I got LB to stick, played some Skyrim, Witcher 2, BF3 with Lightboost portrait Surround. *Unbelievable.* It's like having a 3240x1920 resolution perfect motion clarity 42" FW900 (but with the bezel bars of course). I am speechless. Combined with the smoothness of Titan cards.









I don't think I can resist the urge now to build a 4x Titan chilled-water cooled gaming machine of epic-ness. I just have to figure out how I got LB to stick and replicate it.


----------



## Swolern

Yup, I agree with that. Surround + Lightboost + Titans = WIN

Glad you got it working Vega


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> Yup, I agree with that. Surround + Lightboost + Titans = WIN
> 
> Glad you got it working Vega


Hah ya, over all of my display setups of the past this is the best. Now I just have to hunt down how to get it to work 100% of the time. You guys with landscape surround, can you get the computer to boot up in LB mode?


----------



## tsunamipop

I guess Im just blind Vega but I never noticed your location is Fort Bragg. I live in Fayetteville. I need to see the setup!!!!


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Hah ya, over all of my display setups of the past this is the best. Now I just have to hunt down how to get it to work 100% of the time. You guys with landscape surround, can you get the computer to boot up in LB mode?


Wow even better than the 5x1 120hz setup!

With older drivers LB would stay on 100% of the time. But with the new WHQL drivers it reboots with only one screen LB and the other 2 regular. A quick launch of the 3d test app makes the LB pop back on to all 3.

With the Titans this is the first time i have been able to play BF3 mp with ultra 2x or 4xMSAA butter smooth in surround. Gorgeous!


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> Wow even better than the 5x1 120hz setup!
> 
> With older drivers LB would stay on 100% of the time. But with the new WHQL drivers it reboots with only one screen LB and the other 2 regular. A quick launch of the 3d test app makes the LB pop back on to all 3.
> 
> With the Titans this is the first time i have been able to play BF3 mp with ultra 2x or 4xMSAA butter smooth in surround. Gorgeous!


Ah ya, I was wondering why it seemed harder to keep LB on after a reboot. I guess its the new drivers.


----------



## shedokan

Wow scrolling text on anything else feels so bad compare to LB, I think it made me so sensitive to blur

Really sick system Vega.. ;0


----------



## Hellhamah

Sorry for my English its not my native language. I have a problem trying to disable the lightboost at 2D. More specific, the problem is when i want to overclock my monitor via nvidia control panel, my monitor can run at 129Hz without a problem. Before the lightboost tweak that i read from here, my monitor ran at those Hz without a problem. When i follow the instractions for the lightboost in 2D everything gone ok, i had lightboost on at 120Hz, it was fine. I didn't like the colors and the low brightness and i decided to unistall it. Now the image is as before at 120Hz (i unistall the drivers, i unistall the Asus VG278 driver.ini from my monitor, i look the .reg file with notebook, nothing where there after the unistall of tha nvidia drivers). There is no problem at 120Hz or lower. The image is like before. But now when i try to overclock my monitor at 129Hz(I repeat it was running fine at that Hz before the tweak), the lightboost enable itself without Reason! I can see it immidiatly at the desktop because the colors changes, the brightness goes lower and my Benq XL2420T 3D green light is ON, Also the monitor flickers. I cant find why is doing this above 120hz, i done everything i would think of..


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> Wow scrolling text on anything else feels so bad compare to LB, I think it made me so sensitive to blur
> 
> Really sick system Vega.. ;0


I know man, isn't LB text scrolling awesome? I cannot go back to non-LB that is why I am working so hard to get this to work lol.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hellhamah*
> 
> Sorry for my English its not my native language. I have a problem trying to disable the lightboost at 2D. More specific, the problem is when i want to overclock my monitor via nvidia control panel, my monitor can run at 129Hz without a problem. Before the lightboost tweak that i read from here, my monitor ran at those Hz without a problem. When i follow the instractions for the lightboost in 2D everything gone ok, i had lightboost on at 120Hz, it was fine. I didn't like the colors and the low brightness and i decided to unistall it. Now the image is as before at 120Hz (i unistall the drivers, i unistall the Asus VG278 driver.ini from my monitor, i look the .reg file with notebook, nothing where there after the unistall of tha nvidia drivers). There is no problem at 120Hz or lower. The image is like before. But now when i try to overclock my monitor at 129Hz(I repeat it was running fine at that Hz before the tweak), the lightboost enable itself without Reason! I can see it immidiatly at the desktop because the colors changes, the brightness goes lower and my Benq XL2420T 3D green light is ON, Also the monitor flickers. I cant find why is doing this above 120hz, i done everything i would think of..


http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU

Just run CRU.exe and delete any monitor values and reboot. You will be good to go. Your monitor is staying in Lightboost mode because it see's custom resolution timings to tell it to do so. Your computer isn't going back to standard timings, hence why LB is staying on.


----------



## Papadon69

Hi all,

I'm hoping someone can assist as I'm experiencing some really strange stuff with LIGHTBOOST.

I'm running 2 x EVGA 670 4GB Superclocked cards in SLI and I have an ASUS VG24QE monitor.

I've done all the steps to enable LIGHTBOOST in 2D mode with the 'no glasses' hack and everything checks out so far.

Monitor INF installed, registry hack installed, enabled 3d, NVIDIA sees the 120hz Asus monitor. Monitor shows LIGHTBOOST settings are enabled.

So far so good, until I actually launch a game, any game for that matter.

The result is that the game will launch and stay in 'LIGHTBOOST' mode, however I am getting something like 1-2 FPS with stuttering sound and it takes almost 30 seconds just to click 'QUIT' or 'EXIT' and get back to the desktop. Needless to say, the games are more than unplayable and they nearly crash my system. I've tried disabling SLI and it does the same thing. I've tried TF2, Metro 2033, Batman AC and some others and they all exhibit the same behaviour. I'm on a fresh install of Windows 8 and I have a pretty powerful system that generates 300 FPS in TF2 and about 85 in Metro 2033 with everything on max in DX11.

I've been searching the forums and no one seems to have reported anything like this. If I turn off 3D and effectively disable LIGHTBOOST, my FPS is back to normal. I'm using the latest Nvidia Drivers *3.14.07*

If anyone can assist, it would be greatly appreciated. I must be missing something here.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## shedokan

Keep 3D ster unchecked


----------



## Papadon69

Where? In windows settings or nvidia? Won't that break light boost? Will try when I get home, thanks for the reply.


----------



## CallsignVega

You will always get stuttering in 3D mode when you use the custom monitor .inf's and not an actual emitter. Just keep 3D unchecked.


----------



## tsunamipop

ctrl-T will disable the stereoscopic 3d and smooth everything out if you get the frame drop. or if you unclick the stereo 3d box and not apply it, then launch the game and see if it sticks. I had to try a few difference methods, but after I unclicked the box and didn't apply it seems to have lb 24/7 without turning off lightboost.


----------



## tsunamipop

Vega so are you looking to get rid of any of your 680's. I may be interested if so. Im sure you won't be getting rid of the Titans!


----------



## cardan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Papadon69*
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I'm hoping someone can assist as I'm experiencing some really strange stuff with LIGHTBOOST.
> 
> I'm running 2 x EVGA 670 4GB Superclocked cards in SLI and I have an ASUS VG24QE monitor.
> 
> I've done all the steps to enable LIGHTBOOST in 2D mode with the 'no glasses' hack and everything checks out so far.
> 
> Monitor INF installed, registry hack installed, enabled 3d, NVIDIA sees the 120hz Asus monitor. Monitor shows LIGHTBOOST settings are enabled.
> 
> So far so good, until I actually launch a game, any game for that matter.
> 
> The result is that the game will launch and stay in 'LIGHTBOOST' mode, however I am getting something like 1-2 FPS with stuttering sound and it takes almost 30 seconds just to click 'QUIT' or 'EXIT' and get back to the desktop. Needless to say, the games are more than unplayable and they nearly crash my system. I've tried disabling SLI and it does the same thing. I've tried TF2, Metro 2033, Batman AC and some others and they all exhibit the same behaviour. I'm on a fresh install of Windows 8 and I have a pretty powerful system that generates 300 FPS in TF2 and about 85 in Metro 2033 with everything on max in DX11.
> 
> I've been searching the forums and no one seems to have reported anything like this. If I turn off 3D and effectively disable LIGHTBOOST, my FPS is back to normal. I'm using the latest Nvidia Drivers *3.14.07*
> 
> If anyone can assist, it would be greatly appreciated. I must be missing something here.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


When you're in-game have you tried holding down CTRL+T until the lag goes away?


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> You will always get stuttering in 3D mode when you use the custom monitor .inf's and not an actual emitter. Just keep 3D unchecked.


Exactly what kind of stuttering do you mean?

I noticed my VG278H with emitter would stutter while text scrolling on Chrome. My new XL2411T without emitter doesn't do it anywhere near as often, and my VG278HE didn't do it either. Is this what you meant - trying to describe it I would say that the text was moving almost smoothly, but slightly jerky as if the framerate had been limited or something.

Nothing so bad as when you play games under 100FPS though, that double-image thing is utterly terrible.


----------



## Papadon69

Mashing Ctrl t fixed the issue. Thanks all. Going to get an emitter at some point.


----------



## Papadon69

On a side note, I'm not seeing much improvement using light boost vs non light boost. Anyone in a similar boat? or are my eyes just that good already?...lol


----------



## shedokan

What can you do about the slight stutter hamzatm?

You meant there's double image if you don't get at least 120fps?


----------



## cardan

What I'm getting is like an annoying second image stutter when scrolling and playing games. The image is significantly clearer than no lightboost but it's annoying. I wasn't getting this problem before I had to force it using CRU.

Before anyone asks, my fps are in the 200's at all times.


----------



## shedokan

Weird I don't see any stutter in games but there can be some while scrolling, I wonder if CRU can cause anything


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsunamipop*
> 
> Vega so are you looking to get rid of any of your 680's. I may be interested if so. Im sure you won't be getting rid of the Titans!


Already sold.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Exactly what kind of stuttering do you mean?
> 
> I noticed my VG278H with emitter would stutter while text scrolling on Chrome. My new XL2411T without emitter doesn't do it anywhere near as often, and my VG278HE didn't do it either. Is this what you meant - trying to describe it I would say that the text was moving almost smoothly, but slightly jerky as if the framerate had been limited or something.
> 
> Nothing so bad as when you play games under 100FPS though, that double-image thing is utterly terrible.


No, just the pausing/slowness/stuttering when you go to set up 3D or launch a 3D game while using the modified monitor .inf's without an actual emitter. If you have an emitter, the problem goes away in my testing.


----------



## tsunamipop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Already sold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aww man, oh well, it would have been nice to SLI my system. Anyone else selling there 680 for titans?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Papadon69*
> 
> On a side note, I'm not seeing much improvement using light boost vs non light boost. Anyone in a similar boat? or are my eyes just that good already?...lol


1. Make sure Lightboost is genuinely enabled
- Go into your monitor's OSD menus and see if a new "LightBoost" setting shows up
- Wave your hand in front of a bright white window and see if you get the stroboscopic effect

2. Try a motion test, such as PixPerAn -- linked from www.blurbusters.com/motion-tests.

Remember to make sure you run as close as possible to [email protected] (or beyond, if you prefer VSYNC OFF), since the benefits of LightBoost do not really show up at low framerates due to all the repeat refreshes interfering with motion blur elimination.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Papadon69*
> 
> So far so good, until I actually launch a game, any game for that matter.
> 
> The result is that the game will launch and stay in 'LIGHTBOOST' mode, however I am getting something like 1-2 FPS with stuttering sound and it takes almost 30 seconds just to click 'QUIT' or 'EXIT' and get back to the desktop. Needless to say, the games are more than unplayable and they nearly crash my system. I've tried disabling SLI and it does the same thing. I've tried TF2, Metro 2033, Batman AC and some others and they all exhibit the same behaviour. I'm on a fresh install of Windows 8 and I have a pretty powerful system that generates 300 FPS in TF2 and about 85 in Metro 2033 with everything on max in DX11.


Here's a solution, I've added a new tip paragraph to the LightBoost HOWTO:
http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost/

*TIP: Improving Convenience, Stability & Eliminating "Control+T":*
First, verify LightBoost is working by verifying for reduced motion blur, and Step 4 was already followed. Your registry tweak is installed. Next, you can make LightBoost "stick" by going to nVidia Control Panel and disabling the "Enable Stereoscopic 3D" checkbox (see Step 8 above). If the screen did not flicker when doing this, LightBoost is still enabled even after disabling 3D!
- Games launch in 2D without needing Control+T
- Driver stability is improved in this mode, less freezing occurs.
- VSYNC OFF now works much more reliably, reducing input lag.
(Note: Some games may automatically switch resolutions; make sure it stays at 120 Hz)


----------



## mdrejhon

Good news. Black Frame Insertion for *Zero Motion Blur MAME* -- arcade emulator.
This produces the LightBoost effect for [email protected]

Coming soon.
www.blurbusters.com/mame


----------



## Gil80

Is there any Lightboost enabled monitor that has the quality of an IPS panel at 16:10 ratio?


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Already sold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, just the pausing/slowness/stuttering when you go to set up 3D or launch a 3D game while using the modified monitor .inf's without an actual emitter. If you have an emitter, the problem goes away in my testing.


Oh, I never got any of that stuff with my inf file after using CRU. Strange :/


----------



## CallsignVega

Mark, I did it.









I've accomplished all of my goals:

Portrait Surround Lightboost
100% working LB after reboot
All games launch in LB mode
All games launch at set resolution
Windows only see's a single resolution
Lightboost 100% working Windows Desktop and smooth crystal clear chromium wheel scroller in web pages.
No emitters needed
No custom modified monitor .inf's
No 3D drivers/Apps installed of any kind.

I officially win all of the internetz. It's like a 27-step process that will be close hold as I want the only LB portrait surround gaming system in the world. Bahahah!









Now I need a 3rd or 4th Titan.









Little video:


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Good news. Black Frame Insertion for *Zero Motion Blur MAME* -- arcade emulator.
> This produces the LightBoost effect for [email protected]
> 
> Coming soon.
> www.blurbusters.com/mame


Man really wish this was possible for regular pc gaming. Would really be useful for a game like BF3. Anyways man good job. Wonder how it looks. Might have to try.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Good news. Black Frame Insertion for *Zero Motion Blur MAME* -- arcade emulator.
> This produces the LightBoost effect for [email protected]
> 
> Coming soon.
> www.blurbusters.com/mame


Whoa!!!!!

I want Crysis 3 maxed out at 5760x1080 @60fps with zero motion blur!!!!


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Mark, I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've accomplished all of my goals:
> 
> Portrait Surround Lightboost
> 100% working LB after reboot
> All games launch in LB mode
> All games launch at set resolution
> Windows only see's a single resolution
> Lightboost 100% working Windows Desktop and smooth crystal clear chromium wheel scroller in web pages.
> No emitters needed
> No custom modified monitor .inf's
> No 3D drivers/Apps installed of any kind.
> 
> I officially win all of the internetz. It's like a 27-step process that will be close hold as I want the only LB portrait surround gaming system in the world. Bahahah!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I need a 3rd or 4th Titan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Little video:


Congrats that looks amazing!


----------



## shedokan

What do you mean no modified inf files? Which one are you using Vega? You able to pick 144Hz?

And about 3D drivers of any kind you mean like the ones from Setup Wizard or you even uninstall some from the nvidia whql driver package?


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Mark, I did it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I need a 3rd or 4th Titan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Little video:


Just saw the vid. Nice way to show off the lightboost with panning the camera









3rd or 4th Titan!!







Crysis 3 will love that!!!!! That game is so damn gorgeous when maxed out!!!!!!

Are you going to stick with the z77 for that build? All of the CPU benchmarks i have seen for Crysis 3 have utilized 6 cores on SB-E.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> What do you mean no modified inf files? Which one are you using Vega? You able to pick 144Hz?
> 
> And about 3D drivers of any kind you mean like the ones from Setup Wizard or you even uninstall some from the nvidia whql driver package?


No modified .inf. Just use regular EDID info sent from the monitors, then I restrict the use of resolution to what I want with CRU.exe. Wonderful program from ToastyX.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> Just saw the vid. Nice way to show off the lightboost with panning the camera
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3rd or 4th Titan!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crysis 3 will love that!!!!! That game is so damn gorgeous when maxed out!!!!!!
> 
> Are you going to stick with the z77 for that build? All of the CPU benchmarks i have seen for Crysis 3 have utilized 6 cores on SB-E.


It would be a 3930K/3960X/3970X build with a RIVE most likely. Still debating if the eye candy is worth the umm, extra four grand over my current setup.









If you notice the tree's/building off in the distance you can see the motion clarity a bit better when I pan the camera. If I turned the camera a bit faster to really match the spin it would have been better still. Hard for a regular 30fps video camera to capture it really though.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> No modified .inf. Just use regular EDID info sent from the monitors, then I restrict the use of resolution to what I want with CRU.exe. Wonderful program from ToastyX.
> It would be a 3930K/3960X/3970X build with a RIVE most likely. Still debating if the eye candy is worth the umm, extra four grand over my current setup.


Yes that is true. The extra GPUs would only benefit you in a handful of games. Then you start having the continuous hassle of 3-way & 4-way SLI issues. And there is the possibility of a less smooth gameplay like on 4-way SLI with 670/680s. Not positive it will be different with the Titan's 50% increased bus bandwidth with 3-way and 4-way as time frame latency increases. It sure is smoother with 2-way Titan SLI vs 680 SLI







. I would rather have extra smooth gameplay than increased graphics settings, but motion weighs very heavily on gameplay to me.

Of course you could always see how your current rig handles 3-way Titans and go from there.


----------



## mdrejhon

I'd like to blog about your setup. Would you mind writing out your 27-step procedure somewhere? I'd be happy to give this sort of thing a dedicated page. If you don't mind, I'd grab your photo off the HardForum thread and use your YouTube video.

P.S. To other readers, Zero Motion Blur MAME now available for download if you also love old arcade games and want the LightBoost zero motion blur effect on them too.


----------



## shedokan

How can u enable LB without 278 driver? Or is it possible


----------



## supermi

Hey guys







Having trouble getting the Lightboost on WIN 8 , I would like to stick with 8 if possible any steps I need to take?

I have 3 27inch ASUS 120hz 3d panels with built in emitters. It seems WIN 7 is easier to do this than 8 LOL


----------



## shedokan

What do u mean the regular sent from the monitors vega? There's the 278 one and new which should allow switching to 144hz but it didnt make my LB stick


----------



## CallsignVega

Your GPU reads an electronic signal from the monitor called the EDID info. No need for .inf's.


----------



## shedokan

So you done it differently than the instructions u gave us before?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> So you done it differently than the instructions u gave us before?


There appears to be a way to do it simply by executing this specific Custom Resolution via nVidia Control Panel, at least on nVidia cards.



Apparently, this works in most (but unfortunately not all) circumstances. We need additional guinea pigs -- instead of installing an .inf or .reg file, try creating this custom resolution (replacing your existing 120 Hz). The use of ToastyX's CRU.exe is a big benefit to force this mode upon all video games, to prevent them from switching away.

Alas, this mode does not work on a Radeon, unless you do it on an nVidia computer first, then hot-plug it to a Radeon computer (running the same timings). LightBoost activation seems to be a 2-step procedure that also includes this custom resolution. There must be a sort of "interlock" (like a "safety" against competitor usage) of sorts within LightBoost that needs to be engaged by the nVidia drivers first, before it's activatable via this custom resolution.

We need guinea pigs, with fresh Windows installs (or never having enabled LightBoost before, on a monitor that doesn't have an integrated emitter) and a freshly reset monitor (unplugged and plugged) -- never having installed an INF or REG file. Please try the above custom resolution out, by using ToastyX's Custom Resolution Utility.


----------



## PiERiT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> snip


Mine will be here Thursday. I'll give it a go. Just do the custom resolution and skip the inf/reg steps?


----------



## shedokan

Would be nice for updated instructions vega









Unplugging the monitor still needed with fresh install of windows?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PiERiT*
> 
> Mine will be here Thursday. I'll give it a go. Just do the custom resolution and skip the inf/reg steps?


Yes, please do. Try this first, because if it works, then I may be updating my LightBoost HOWTO, if this is reliable on multiple monitor models.


----------



## shedokan

Doing this straight and after run setup wizard without installing anything? Not even 248 driver? Should turn LB? On fresh install, unplugging the monitor?


----------



## Razor 116

@mdrejhon Don't know if you've already seen this but this program allows the user to control certain settings via DDC-CI. If you can get in contact with the developer of the application maybe he would have some input on how to extract the DDC-CI commands for lightboost.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1262322/guide-display-control-via-windows-brightness-contrast-etc-ddc-ci/0_20


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razor 116*
> 
> @mdrejhon Don't know if you've already seen this but this program allows the user to control certain settings via DDC-CI. If you can get in contact with the developer of the application maybe he would have some input on how to extract the DDC-CI commands for lightboost.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1262322/guide-display-control-via-windows-brightness-contrast-etc-ddc-ci/0_20


Thanks for the tip, I will be keeping an eye on that. I'm waiting for the alternate methods to materialize, before making some moves in this regards. For example, using a custom resolution with a vertical total of 1147 or 1149, seems to also trigger LightBoost (at least when connected to nVidia cards) without needing a .reg file or .inf file.

Will need to update the Blur Busters LightBoost HOWTO, will need to await some new information first...

Then sometime after that, a utility needs to be created by someone (perhaps myself, perhaps ToastyX, or someone else)


----------



## Razor 116

@mdrejhon This program (http://www.entechtaiwan.com/lib/softmccs.shtm) allows you to monitor the DDC/CI communication, unfortunately it only seems to monitor communication using DDC commands within the application. I tried it with the screenbright application to see if it would display the communication but it did not. It would seem that Linux would be the best shot at extracting the commands that the Nvidia drivers send to the monitor.


----------



## mdrejhon

[Lightboost-Hacking]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razor 116*
> 
> @mdrejhon This program (http://www.entechtaiwan.com/lib/softmccs.shtm) allows you to monitor the DDC/CI communication, unfortunately it only seems to monitor communication using DDC commands within the application. I tried it with the screenbright application to see if it would display the communication but it did not. It would seem that Linux would be the best shot at extracting the commands that the Nvidia drivers send to the monitor.


Yep, I did a little softMCCS research already at post 494 of HardForum thread then read about the next 50 posts beyond. We used the VESA MCCS PDF v3 to figure out the DDC/CI commands. We found that the first byte 01 is a read command and 03 is a write command. The second byte is always the setting (e.g. 01 10 reads the current luminance value). We finally found that the FA command controls LightBoost OSD setting, but does not activate LightBoost alone.

There's a "Command Line" entry box in softmccs.exe that allows entering hex number (DDC/CI commands) to tell the monitor to change settings, etc.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gzboli;1039571390*
> MCCS command 0xFA is controlling Lightboost brightness. Accepted values are 0 to 10. 0xFA lies in the "manufacturer-specific" area of the spec. Someone will have to test the BenQ to see if nVidia is requiring 0xFA on all monitors or if it is vendor specific.
> 
> No luck on finding the On/Off command yet. On the VG248QE, the OSD literally says "3D mode" when it is on, is this the same for the 27"?
> 
> EDIT: I should add that there are some command values that can be read which are not included in the capabilities string:
> 6C, 6E, 70 (Video Black Level, "persistent")
> B0 (Save current settings or Restore Factory, "momentary")
> FA (Lightboost brightness. Command type is returning as "momentary" but clearly this is a "persistent" command)
> 
> EDIT2: Hitting "Restore Defaults" on the "Setup stereoscopic 3D" page turns off Lightboost.


On both the BENQ and ASUS, the command 03 FA 00 01 through 03 FA 00 0A is changing LightBoost strobe lengths between 10% and 100% (1.4ms through 2.4ms) but only if LightBoost is already enabled.

We also found that a custom resolution Vertical Totals of 1147 or 1149 worked with LightBoost, but not 1143 (vertical sync pixels value too small), so the use of the resolution is also necessary. This can be done via nVidia Custom Resolution Utility, or via ToastyX's CRU.exe (Custom Resolution Utility).

So far, candidates for enabling LightBoost include (perhaps all the below):
- Specific timings (seems to help)
- Specific undocumented DDC commands (could be a factor too)

It appears the monitor is expecting more than one thing for LightBoost to be enabled...
Once we all discover what that is, then Radeon users can join the fun, and we'd have a system tray utility that can act upon a hotkey via a system wide keyboard hook driver (WH_KEYHOOK_LL). And LightBoost can then be re-enabled everytime a resolution changes (WM_DISPLAYCHANGED) -- good for stubborn games such as Battlefield 3. And no Control+T needed; and no stereoscopic mode problems or freezing. And it'd be easier to enable LightBoost (on one or more monitors) using just a simple system tray utility without installing any .reg or .inf files... User friendly button and hotkey access. I have the programming skillz, but I've not been able to crack the LightBoost protocol yet.

If you know Arduino construction (I have the skillz, but not the time this month, alas), there's a schematic diagram available in a document "Hacking Monitors Made Interesting" for snooping the I2C serial line of your DVI/HDMI cable (DDC/CI). This could allow recording all the commands (without needing a Linux system), to figure out what the LightBoost protocol is.

It's definitely an initiating signal of sorts, rather than an ongoing synchronization signal, since LightBoost remains enabled when hotplugging from an nVidia computer to a Radeon computer (intentionally configured to the same custom signal timings).

If you are interested in doing further research (to make LightBoost easier) and find something new, let all of us know!

[/Lightboost-Hacking]


----------



## shedokan

So after having fresh install of windows and monitor unplugged plugged, creating custom resolution via nvidia driver+CRU and run setup wizard should make LB stick? That means I wont be able to run any other resolution than 1080p?

Vega #instructions #omg

Should the NVIDIa 3D Vision Driver and Controller Driver be installed after LB is enabled?


----------



## shedokan

Update:

After doing fresh install of windows and reseting the monitor
Using CRU.exe for custom resolution, restart PC, LB turned ON stright without doing anything. No inf/reg files or anything.
I raise the Contrast and put LB to 10%, ran pixperan after and here:
Graphics mode: 1920x1080 @ 32 bpp
Frame rate: 120.1 Hz
Gamma factor: -

Flag test: -
Chase test: -
*Readability: Tempo 30*


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> Update:
> 
> After doing fresh install of windows and reseting the monitor
> Using CRU.exe for custom resolution, restart PC, LB turned ON stright without doing anything. No inf/reg files or anything.
> I raise the Contrast and put LB to 10%, ran pixperan after and here:
> Graphics mode: 1920x1080 @ 32 bpp
> Frame rate: 120.1 Hz
> Gamma factor: -
> 
> Flag test: -
> Chase test: -
> *Readability: Tempo 30*


Yes, good to go.









There are a few more steps for Surround setups, but that is the gist of it.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> Update:
> 
> After doing fresh install of windows and reseting the monitor
> Using CRU.exe for custom resolution, restart PC, LB turned ON stright without doing anything. No inf/reg files or anything.
> I raise the Contrast and put LB to 10%, ran pixperan after and here:
> Graphics mode: 1920x1080 @ 32 bpp
> Frame rate: 120.1 Hz
> Gamma factor: -
> 
> Flag test: -
> Chase test: -
> *Readability: Tempo 30*
> :


This is great news you could activate LightBoost without .reg, without .inf, and without the 3D Vision emitter!

CRU.exe actually installs some information into the registry that has similar information to the .inf file. I'm contacting ToastyX to figure out if I could team-up with him to create a LightBoost utility (including hotkeys, easy on/off, easy uninstall, etc). I would like to have two different 120 Hz modes, one that enables LightBoost and one that does not enable LightBoost.

Within one month, I'd like to replace the LightBoost HOWTO instructions with something that does not require .reg or .inf files (Windows 8 driver override is tricky). But done with a beta instructions page first. With about 10,000 pageviews of the LightBoost HOWTO a week and about 1000 downloads of the .inf file per week (BENQ and ASUS needs to thank me for the extra sales I'm giving them... Maybe I should start putting an Amazon Affilate link -- LOL -- to break-even on the web hosting costs at least!)... I need to change my instructions _very_ carefully because I want to be absolutely certain that it works on all models of monitors. I've tried instructions that worked on a BENQ but not ASUS.

But this is promising and should significantly simplify instructions! Even if it will not work on Radeon.
We need to write beta instructions soon. Since I am away from my LightBoost monitors again for a few days (work, work), perhaps you (Vega) can email me some (including a screenshot of the custom resolution entry in CRU.exe) and I'll publish them on a "beta instructions" page for testing on several models. I'd polish/edit up the instructions, put them into a beta instructions page on Blur Busters. You would get credit, of course (and a link to your own web page/LinkedIn/whatever)

(shedokan, what monitor model do you have?)


----------



## shedokan

Yeah I was kinda surpried LB went on, I was like how can It be so easy lol.
But why would you want to have 120Hz non LB? Ofc its nice to have an ON/OFF function but.. I tried reading pixperan with 144Hz before doing it once at 12 speed and it was so annoying









I set my Monitor to 120Hz instead of 144Hz (Not sure if needed(?) cause you force 120Hz in CRU), I entered the values which Vega posted a while ago in his CRU, restarted and thats it.

You can see at the top it says VG248, no VG278 INF or any other installed.



@EDIT: Is there anyone who plan to do some input lag tests between 144Hz non LB and 120Hz LB? Not that It'll make anyone go back to non LB if numbers are lower







but still, interesting


----------



## mdrejhon

Thanks for the screenshot! If you don't mind, I'll later incorporate it into a preliminary HOWTO.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> Yeah I was kinda surpried LB went on, I was like how can It be so easy lol.
> But why would you want to have 120Hz non LB?


Although LightBoost provides a massive motion-quality improvement, some people still want to turn off LightBoost, while others want to keep it on.
- Color quality, uniformity, greyscale (more important at desktop than in games)
- Eye comfort from 120 Hz flicker (varies from person to person)
- Picture too dim with LightBoost (for bright rooms)

Detailed information: Color quality is usually better with the strobe backlight disabled (LightBoost turned off). Also, greyscale, too -- the gamma is automatically jacked upwards (although nVidia Control Panel can undo much of this). In addition, the contrast range is better in non-LightBoost mode. The LCD greyscale is compressed slightly during LightBoost to aid in optimizing the pixel response curves to minimize crosstalk between refreshes during the LightBoost strobes (absolute LCD grays are tweaked -- the BLB looks different on a black screen with LightBoost ON versus LightBoost OFF). There's some vertical asymmetry in how the LCD pixels are prepared before the LightBoost strobes, and that shows itself as some faint horizontal banding artifacts in certain kinds of test patterns. Also, there's some faint artifacts that sometimes show at upper-right-corner of 1ms panels (horizontal line artifact). Also, some people get eyestrain with 120 Hz after a prolonged time period, so need a rest with flicker-free operation. LCD panels are pushed to their technological limitations in order to squeeze pixel persistence into the time period between refreshes (i.e. the vertical blanking interval), to make strobe backlights possible to bypass pixel persistence. This results in some compromises to color quality, to gain the very massive, massive improvement in motion quality (for stutter-free [email protected] sources). Also, LightBoost dims the picture due to the increased black period (backlight off) between refreshes, which is a problem for bright environments such as daytime in a room with big windows.

Some people like me will keep LightBoost on 24/7, while others will only enable it during video games.


----------



## mdrejhon

Without running, let me make a wild guess as to the step-by-step instructions, just by looking at your screenshot.

1. Download the ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility
2. Run CRU.exe
3. Under "Detailed Resolutions", click "Add"
4. Enter the numbers found in the screenshot. (Most important: Make sure Vertical Total is 1149)
5. Click OK, and reboot.
6. LightBoost should now be enabled automatically when you switch to 1920x1080 at 120Hz



Questions to all of you:
- Does LightBoost stay persistent at all times?
- This works even if 3D Stereoscopic checkbox is disabled?
- (Vega) What happens when you enable/disable the 3D Stereoscopic checkbox? Does it interfere with 3D Vision?
- (Vega) What additional steps are needed if you have more than one LightBoost monitor? Just create this same resolution on each monitor?
- Simplifying steps further: Can you click "Export"? So we can see if we can simplify step 4 by just having other people click "Import"? Typing numbers can be confusing.

I wonder why these steps don't run on Radeon's (at least OCBurner's setup)? I would imagine that the nVidia graphics card is signalling the monitor to "unlock" the LightBoost feature somehow. A vendor lock feature. So there might still be a monitor command required to unlock this feature.


----------



## shedokan

Why wouldnt 1080p be persistent? It is anyhow. You can still use other resolutions in-game, monitor still in LB Mode looking at the OSD settings

I haven't even touched 3D Stereoscopic so it is disabled at all times.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> Why wouldnt 1080p be persistent? It is anyhow. You can still use other resolutions in-game, monitor still in LB Mode looking at the OSD settings


Ooops, I meant "Does LightBoost stay persistent?". Thanks for the correction.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Without running, let me make a wild guess as to the step-by-step instructions, just by looking at your screenshot.
> 
> 1. Download the ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility
> 2. Run CRU.exe
> 3. Under "Detailed Resolutions", click "Add"
> 4. Enter the numbers found in the screenshot. (Most important: Make sure Vertical Total is 1149)
> 5. Click OK, and reboot.
> 7. LightBoost should now be enabled automatically when you switch to 1920x1080 at 120Hz
> 
> 
> 
> Questions to all of you:
> - Does LightBoost stay persistent at all times?
> - This works even if 3D Stereoscopic checkbox is disabled?
> - (Vega) What happens when you enable/disable the 3D Stereoscopic checkbox? Does it interfere with 3D Vision?
> - (Vega) What additional steps are needed if you have more than one LightBoost monitor? Just create this same resolution on each monitor?
> - Simplifying steps further: Can you click "Export"? So we can see if we can simplify step 4 by just having other people click "Import"? Typing numbers can be confusing.
> 
> I wonder why these steps don't run on Radeon's (at least OCBurner's setup)? I would imagine that the nVidia graphics card is signalling the monitor to "unlock" the LightBoost feature somehow. A vendor lock feature. So there might still be a monitor command required to unlock this feature.


I'n my screenshot above, it is important to make sure that total pixel field is the emphesis.

My Lightboost in Surround stays persistant at all times. The only way to kick the monitors out of LB mode is to physically remove the power cable. If power is removed, you repeat the process to re-enable persistant LB.
This works without any 3D drivers even installed. _However_, if you remove power to the monitors you will need to kick-start the monitors back into LB mode via the 3D drivers, so you might as well leave them installed. (I recommend a 3D emitter so you don't have to worry about custom monitor .inf files if your monitor doesn't have a built in emitter and the stuttering/pausing in 3D mode caused by not having an emitter.)
Enable 3D checkmark does nothing as far as LB is concerned as LB is permanently on, it just tells the game to run in 3D mode or not. I set this to off of course.
As for Surround, the KEY is to perform the CRU.exe modification on all of the monitors AFTER the three monitors are set in Surround mode. Make your CRU match the above screen shot for all of your monitors, reboot and you now have a permanent Surround Lightboost setup at the single Surround resolution. This is very important as it prevents games from using a non-LB resolution and kicking your whole setup out of LB. Once you have the numbers entered into one of the monitors in CRU.exe, click copy and paste them to the other two monitors to save time.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I recommend a 3D emitter so you don't have to worry about custom monitor .inf files if your monitor doesn't have a built in emitter and the stuttering/pausing in 3D mode caused by not having an emitter.)


I believe the stuttering/pausing is caused by the .inf file. So if you don't have an emitter, but successfully enable LightBoost without .inf/.reg, you're golden.

(shedokan, can you confirm: What model of monitor do you have? It has no built-in emitter? No freezing issues?)


----------



## shedokan

#system #below #omg









VG248QE

It has no built-in emitter? _I believe it doesnt?_
No freezing issues? Havent experienced any so


----------



## Falkentyne

This did NOT work on my HD 7970 and VG248QE







Lightboost remained disabled after following the instructions. Tried 1147 and 1149....


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> This did NOT work on my HD 7970 and VG248QE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lightboost remained disabled after following the instructions. Tried 1147 and 1149....


Damn! That's too bad. Sounds like there must be a vendor unlock feature in nVidia drivers, that needs to execute first, before you can plug the monitor into a Radeon system. I knew there had to be some secondary trigger, now if we could only figure out what it is...
Did you leave the extension block alone, or did you delete the extension block?

EDIT: Try running reset-all.exe first (comes with CRU)


----------



## tjaglenn

Hey mdrejhon,

I have a VG278H monitor on a GTX 680, and since installing Windows 8 I've been having trouble getting LB to remain active without it causing games to go to 3d-mode, however with the CRU-trick it's finally working again! One problem though, I had to run reset-all.exe first or it wouldn't work. If someone else has issues, that's always something to try! Thanks for figuring this out, it feels like my awesome Eizo CRT that I used in the late 90s!


----------



## PiERiT

Is there an easy way to confirm LB is on, in Windows 8?

I did the custom resolution. but the motion doesn't seem any smoother, and there's none of the oft-reported red tint.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Damn! That's too bad. Sounds like there must be a vendor unlock feature in nVidia drivers, that needs to execute first, before you can plug the monitor into a Radeon system. I knew there had to be some secondary trigger, now if we could only figure out what it is...
> Did you leave the extension block alone, or did you delete the extension block?
> 
> EDIT: Try running reset-all.exe first (comes with CRU)


Yeah ok, I did reset all then disabled extensions and unchecked all of the other resolutions..didn't work.


----------



## shedokan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PiERiT*
> 
> Is there an easy way to confirm LB is on, in Windows 8?
> 
> I did the custom resolution. but the motion doesn't seem any smoother, and there's none of the oft-reported red tint.


Your screen should become dim, check ur monitor OSD settings if everything got disabled but Contrast and LB, or run PixPeran and check if 12-13 is cakewalk to read

Mark why does Chrome Smooth Scroll Wheel gives some weird flicker when scrolling on FaceBook but not on other sites? lol


----------



## PiERiT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> Your screen should become dim, check ur monitor OSD settings if everything got disabled but Contrast and LB, or run PixPeran and check if 12-13 is cakewalk to read
> 
> Mark why does Chrome Smooth Scroll Wheel gives some weird flicker when scrolling on FaceBook but not on other sites? lol


LightBoost is greyed out in the OSD.









Edit: Yeah the CRU method just doesn't work for me. Going to try the old fashioned way.

Edit2: Old method works, and I seriously can't notice a difference from non-LB. Money well spent.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PiERiT*
> 
> LightBoost is greyed out in the OSD.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Yeah the CRU method just doesn't work for me. Going to try the old fashioned way.
> Edit2: Old method works, and I seriously can't notice a difference from non-LB. Money well spent.


Too bad about the CRU method (was hoping that was simpler); thanks for your input.

As for not seeing a difference with LightBoost, you have confirmed it's actually on via OSD? And the picture has now dimmed slightly (compared to non-LightBoost)? It's worth reposting a good HardForum post here:
Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Rattle*
> thanks guys, I don't notice much difference between 120hz with LB Vs 144hz No LB TBH, both feel great though.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Vega*
> The difference is huge! I can instantly tell when LB is not on.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's quite normal to have these conflicting reviews of LightBoost.
> Common causes are the following:
> 
> *Human Factors*
> -- Your ability to track fast-moving objects; and your sensitivity to motion blur.
> -- Whether or not you are used to CRT gaming. (LightBoost brings the CRT effect to LCD)
> -- Some people growing up today, has never played on a CRT before. Such individuals may be less likely to notice quickly.
> -- Some people only have a habit of eye-tracking only slower-moving objects.
> -- Specific play styles. Strafing sideways & turning motions benefits more than walking forward.
> -- Your sensitivity to input lag, flicker, etc. (You benefit more if you don't feel any effects from input lag or flicker)
> 
> *Computer Factors*
> -- Ability to run fps=Hz. You really need [email protected] to get maximum LightBoost benefit.
> -- Judder/stutter control. Some games/configurations judder so much, that it negetates LightBoost.
> -- Framerate limits. Some games cap to 60fps, this needs to be uncapped (e.g. fps_max)
> -- Faster motion benefits more. Not as noticeable during slow motion.
> -- Specific games. e.g. Team Fortress 2 benefits far more than World of Warcraft.
> -- Some games judder more with VSYNC ON, while others judder more with VSYNC OFF. Test opposite setting.
> -- High quality mouse (preferably 1000 Hz gaming mouse). Ordinary mice adds too much judder.
> 
> *Example of areas that benefit from eliminating motion blur:*
> -- Fast 180-degree flick turns in FPS shooting.
> -- Shooting while turning, without stopping turning (easier on CRT or LightBoost)
> -- Close-up strafing, especially circle strafing
> -- Running while looking at the ground (e.g. hunting for tiny objects quickly).
> -- Identifying multiple far-away enemies or small targets, while turning fast
> -- Playing fast characters such as "Scout" in Team Fortress 2
> -- High-speed low passes, such as low helicoptor flybys in Battlefield 3, you aim better.
> 
> For people who have gameplay styles in fast-action video games, such people can *gain a massive competitive advantage during fast-motion activities, because you react faster*. Without motion blur, enemies are easier to identify while you're still in fast motion. Even out of the corner of your eyes, even before you stop moving. Without motion blur, fast panning motion look as perfectly sharp as being stationary -- LightBoost measured 92% sharper motion than a 60 Hz LCD -- which yields a high-definition-in-motion experience when you play with an impulse driven display like CRT or LightBoost. As a result, there are several gamers (with certain game play styles) who gain a lot more frags when gaming with LightBoost.
> 
> Human reaction times are measured in hundreds of milliseconds; reducing human lag is useful. Even if you react a scant 20 milliseconds faster, that can still actually out-compensate an enemy that has less input lag than you. While it is noteworthy to mention some people say input lag is too high for them, for other people the input lag is not even felt or noticeable (It's important to note that there are many factors of input lag other than the display, too). For some people, the lack of motion blur (reduced human brain lag) far outweighs the minor (unnoticeable) input lag disadvantage of LightBoost; and have game scores that go up dramatically with LightBoost.
> However, it is understandable, not everyone benefits, for various factors -- listed above.
Click to expand...

To do a controlled motion test, download PixPerAn and test with LightBoost enabled versus disabled. It's virtually guaranteed to see a difference in PixPerAn, far more easily than in most video games. Itwill help demonstrate the effect directly without the distraction of a gaming trial.

Sometimes certain video games don't show the LightBoost effect very well. For example, Crysis will usually NOT show the LightBoost effect, while Team Fortress 3 will. This is because you need a minimum framerate of more than 80 frames per second, to begin seeing the LightBoost effect (complete lack of visible motion blur). Also, *temporarily turn on VSYNC during testing*, since the differences amplify when frame deliverytimes is exactly in synch with the backlight strobes. Then if you prefer VSYNC OFF again, experiment with fps_max of several different values such as 125, 200, and 999 -- sometimes you get much better fluidity and far less tearing. (Because of clarity, it is often easier to see tearing on CRT than LCD. LightBoost will be similar. So, tweak, tweak!). LightBoost does sometimes amplify visibility of stutters and tearing effects, so you prefer framerates matching refresh rate.


----------



## CallsignVega

Just use Chromium smooth scrolling text extension. You will notice right away when LB is on and off.







144 Hz non-LB looks like do-do compared.


----------



## PiERiT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Too bad about the CRU method (was hoping that was simpler); thanks for your input.
> 
> As for not seeing a difference with LightBoost, you have confirmed it's actually on via OSD? And the picture has now dimmed slightly (compared to non-LightBoost)? It's worth reposting a good HardForum post here:
> To do another test, download PixPerAn and test with LightBoost enabled versus disabled. It's virtually guaranteed to see a difference in PixPerAn, far more easily than in most video games.
> 
> Sometimes certain video games don't show the LightBoost effect very well. For example, Crysis will usually NOT show the LightBoost effect, while Team Fortress 3 will. This is because you need a minimum framerate of more than 80 frames per second, to begin seeing the LightBoost effect (complete lack of visible motion blur). Also, *temporarily turn on VSYNC during testing*, since the differences amplify when frame deliverytimes is in synch with the backlight strobes. Then if you prefer VSYNC OFF again, experiment with fps_max of several different values such as 125, 200, and 999 -- sometimes you get much better fluidity. LightBoost does sometimes amplify visibility of stutters and tearing effects, so you prefer framerates matching refresh rate.


Not sure why CRU didn't work for me, but did for shedokan. Could be a 7/8 thing, or drivers? I am using the latest beta drivers.

Yeah it was on. The red tint is immediately noticeable and the OSD said 3D-mode. I didn't try PixPerAn, as I thought it didn't work in Windows 8? It's running at 33FPS, will that matter?

I tried every game I have installed, turning down settings if required to hit 120FPS. LB looked the same as non LB. My eyesight is admittedly horrible, so maybe I just can't see the difference.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PiERiT*
> 
> Yeah it was on. The red tint is immediately noticeable and the OSD said 3D-mode. I didn't try PixPerAn, as I thought it didn't work in Windows 8? It's running at 33FPS, will that matter?


PixPerAn does not work properly in Windows 8. It should be reading "120".
Quote:


> I tried every game I have installed, turning down settings if required to hit 120FPS. LB looked the same as non LB. My eyesight is admittedly horrible, so maybe I just can't see the difference.


Oh.... It may be that LightBoost might not be benefitting you (if it's properly functioning) due to eyesight issue. Do you see any difference between 60Hz versus 120Hz, at least?


----------



## PiERiT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> PixPerAn does not work properly in Windows 8. It should be reading "120".
> Oh.... It may be that LightBoost might not be benefitting you (if it's properly functioning) due to eyesight issue. Do you see any difference between 60Hz versus 120Hz, at least?


Barely.









Oh well. I still like the monitor. The backlight is (mostly) uniform, there's no dead pixels, and it doesn't buzz: all problems my old 1440p monitor had. And I'm happy to have something I can adjust with the OSD, instead of requiring an ICC, when a lot of games don't use ICC profiles.

I'm also noticing that vsync isn't necessary with 144hz. I can't stand screen tearing and have *always* had vsync enabled. That worked fine for the majority of games, but games like Crysis and Tomb Raider would get cut to 30FPS, and I can definitely notice the sluggishness there. Coupled with the fact that 1080p is far less demanding than 1440p, those games are actually playable now!


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PiERiT*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> Do you see any difference between 60Hz versus 120Hz, at least?
> 
> 
> 
> Barely.
Click to expand...

It sounds like your motion sensitivity seems to end just barely past 60 Hz
(and also probably can't tell much of a motion clarity difference between LCD and CRT either)

That said, I'm glad you like the monitor for other reasons!

I am sensitive to vsync, even af fps>Hz. I can still notice tearing at 240fps and beyond!


----------



## Razor 116

Ok the 0xFA is present in the BenQ XL2411T amongst others, these are all the available commands via DDC/CI.


I cannot see the 0xFA or anything in the "Manufacturer Specific" area in MCCS so it must only be visible while using an Nvidia GPU.

If someone with an Nvidia card activated LightBoost then hotplugged to a linux machine or if lightboost is available in the Nvidia linux driver and dumped the current DDC/CI settings you could possibly compare the differences with Lightboost of and on. This is ofcourse if the setting is essentially an on-off command (Likely as hotplugging works).

Its a little more complicated than that but not much.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razor 116*
> 
> Ok the 0xFA is present in the BenQ XL2411T amongst others, these are all the available commands via DDC/CI.


Interesting; this ddccontrol output is consistent with what I saw in softMCCS for Windows. There are undocumented commands that don't show up in available commands. Try forcing the command anyway (It should be possible). I've found at least four different commands that actually adjust settings, but don't even show up in the capabilities string of softMCCS.

You've probably already noticed that one piece of the puzzle is the custom timings with a Vertical Total of 1147 (or 1149) but we've found that an additional step (perhaps via DDC) is required to unlock the LightBoost feature, because using the custom timings doesn't seem to work with cold-booted monitors (unplugged-plugged) attached to Radeon's, or even nVidia (non-stereoscopic drivers).


----------



## shedokan

If you really can't tell the diff between 60Hz and 120Hz then I can understand why you don't find LB useful, even if you're used to blur 120Hz is much much smoother lol

Have you changed anything in the Google Chrome Smooth Wheel Vega? in the settings?


----------



## pac08

After a lot of reading i'm still kind of confused. If i've understood correctly, the lb hack is useful if you manage to stay around or over the 100fps mark during playing games?


----------



## shedokan

Isnt it same for 120Hz in general?


----------



## Arizonian

Great read. Explains it better than I could. Good times for monitors with Light Boost 2 tech included.









Source - Zero Motion Blur LCD's have arrived -- Game friendly, low input lag, CRT-sharp motion!
Quote:


> With a LightBoost strobe backlight, you're impulse-driving instead of sample-and-hold. The pixel persistence is kept in total darkness, and the backlight is strobed when pixel transitions are virtually completely finished (>99%+). The strobe length can be shorter than the pixel persistence, breaking the pixel persistence barrier. Motion blur now becomes below human perceptible levels, no blur, can even tell individual pixels even moving at 960 pixels per second. PixPerAn text speed score of 30. You can disable the strobe backlight, whenever you don't need the zero motion blur.


Only down side is when I spark up a Netflix movie just like a game there is a brief moment of black for 2 secs while Light Boost activates. Otherwise it took my already smooth 120 Hz gaming and improved it when I'm not in 3D Vision gaming but can still utilize Light Boost 2 from the monitor.


----------



## pac08

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> Isnt it same for 120Hz in general?


It is but i was asking for the lighboost hack in particular.


----------



## shedokan

by the way mark there is still some slight flicker/stutter when google chrome smooth scroling but the thing is its only in half of the websites, some do for me and some dont


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pac08*
> 
> After a lot of reading i'm still kind of confused. If i've understood correctly, the lb hack is useful if you manage to stay around or over the 100fps mark during playing games?


It's the same thing as a CRT.

[email protected] looks somewhat similar on both CRT and LCD
However...
[email protected] looks much, much, much clearer on CRT than on LCD
(perfectly-clear pans, fast turns, strafing, circle strafing, 180 degree flicks, clear-motion like old Sega Model 3 arcade video games, "NES-perfect-clear" fast scrolls (CRT platformers) -- whatever memories you have of CRT)

The benefits of a stroboscopic display (CRT, Plasma, LightBoost) gradually improves the closer you get to fps=Hz (or exceed)
As a rule of thumb:

60fps -- little blur benefit; and sometimes it's worse (e.g. some people prefer motion blur over the double image effect)
80fps -- motion blur now looks significantly reduced (stutters still contributing to motion blur)
100fps -- motion blur mostly gone (stutters still contributing to motion bur)
120fps -- motion looks perfect, zero stutters, zero motion blur (especially VSYNC ON, or when using very well-tweaked VSYNC OFF)

So as a rule of thumb, X fps @ Y Hz on a CRT, it looks similar on LightBoost.

Keep in mind, human factors apply too:
-- If you can't tell apart a CRT and a newer/modern 60 Hz LCD in motion clarity, you probably won't benefit from LightBoost.
-- If you can't tell apart 60 fps and 120 fps, then you probably won't benefit from LightBoost either.
-- If you can't run more than 60fps, then you probably won't benefit either.
-- If you have a wildly variable framerate (e.g. wild fluctuations 60fps<->120fps), LightBoost won't help as much, the stutters/judders reduce motion motion clarity


----------



## TheSurroundGamr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> It's the same thing as a CRT.
> 
> [email protected] looks somewhat similar on both CRT and LCD
> However...
> [email protected] looks much, much, much clearer on CRT than on LCD
> (perfectly-clear pans, fast turns, strafing, circle strafing, 180 degree flicks, clear-motion like old Sega Model 3 arcade video games, "NES-perfect-clear" fast scrolls (CRT platformers) -- whatever memories you have of CRT)
> 
> The benefits of a stroboscopic display (CRT, Plasma, LightBoost) gradually improves the closer you get to fps=Hz (or exceed)
> As a rule of thumb:
> 
> 60fps -- little blur benefit; and sometimes it's worse (e.g. some people prefer motion blur over the double image effect)
> 80fps -- motion blur now looks significantly reduced (stutters still contributing to motion blur)
> 100fps -- motion blur mostly gone (stutters still contributing to motion bur)
> 120fps -- motion looks perfect, zero stutters, zero motion blur (especially VSYNC ON, or when using very well-tweaked VSYNC OFF)
> 
> So as a rule of thumb, X fps @ Y Hz on a CRT, it looks similar on LightBoost.
> 
> Keep in mind, human factors apply too:
> -- If you can't tell apart a CRT and a newer/modern 60 Hz LCD in motion clarity, you probably won't benefit from LightBoost.
> -- If you can't tell apart 60 fps and 120 fps, then you probably won't benefit from LightBoost either.
> -- If you can't run more than 60fps, then you probably won't benefit either.
> -- If you have a wildly variable framerate (e.g. wild fluctuations 60fps<->120fps), LightBoost won't help as much, the stutters/judders reduce motion motion clarity


Nice avatar, can you tell us the story behind it?


----------



## pac08

@mdrejhon Thank you very much for clarifying that


----------



## kevindd992002

Are the disadvantages of this tweak really noticeable in games?


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Are the disadvantages of this tweak really noticeable in games?


Don't notice any at all, games is where they are the most unnoticeable!


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> It's the same thing as a CRT.
> 
> [email protected] looks somewhat similar on both CRT and LCD
> However...
> [email protected] looks much, much, much clearer on CRT than on LCD
> (perfectly-clear pans, fast turns, strafing, circle strafing, 180 degree flicks, clear-motion like old Sega Model 3 arcade video games, "NES-perfect-clear" fast scrolls (CRT platformers) -- whatever memories you have of CRT)
> 
> The benefits of a stroboscopic display (CRT, Plasma, LightBoost) gradually improves the closer you get to fps=Hz (or exceed)
> As a rule of thumb:
> 
> 60fps -- little blur benefit; and sometimes it's worse (e.g. some people prefer motion blur over the double image effect)
> 80fps -- motion blur now looks significantly reduced (stutters still contributing to motion blur)
> 100fps -- motion blur mostly gone (stutters still contributing to motion bur)
> 120fps -- motion looks perfect, zero stutters, zero motion blur (especially VSYNC ON, or when using very well-tweaked VSYNC OFF)
> 
> So as a rule of thumb, X fps @ Y Hz on a CRT, it looks similar on LightBoost.
> 
> Keep in mind, human factors apply too:
> -- If you can't tell apart a CRT and a newer/modern 60 Hz LCD in motion clarity, you probably won't benefit from LightBoost.
> -- If you can't tell apart 60 fps and 120 fps, then you probably won't benefit from LightBoost either.
> -- If you can't run more than 60fps, then you probably won't benefit either.
> -- If you have a wildly variable framerate (e.g. wild fluctuations 60fps<->120fps), LightBoost won't help as much, the stutters/judders reduce motion motion clarity


You working on 60hz lightboost hack in the near future? I see you got it for Mame emulator I think. So would it be possible for regular pc gaming in the near future for more demanding games. Thanks for all your work.


----------



## shedokan

indeed

Anyone with BenQ XL2411T checked if he could make LB stick simply by using CRU? No inf/reg files? My mate might be able to get it instead of the VG248QE due to price differences so I'm curious


----------



## Razor 116

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Are the disadvantages of this tweak really noticeable in games?


Could you install the softmccs application open it and screenshot it for me. My BenQ xl2411t does not show anythingin the "Manufacturer Specific" section. I assume this is because I have an AMD card.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razor 116*
> 
> Could you install the softmccs application open it and screenshot it for me. My BenQ xl2411t does not show anythingin the "Manufacturer Specific" section. I assume this is because I have an AMD card.


Correct. It's turned on through the *Nvidia Control Panel* Steroscopic 3D section which requires an Nvidia card to enable the software and activate Nvidia 2 Light Boost feature which your monitor is capable of currently but unable to be utilized.

See Light Boost was created to enhance 3D Vision lighting when viewing 3D movies and 3D gaming. Nvidia has some great 3D Vision going on currently. This Light Boost feature inadvertently we've found has a dual purpose.









Nvidia Control Panel - 3D Steroscopic page.


Through 'Test Steroscopic 3D' one checks the option which enables Light Boost even when viewing movies, streaming. Gaming at 120 Hz with LB enabled even when not in 3D creates zero motion blur as per explanations provided in previous posts.









And to make one small correction to OP title.....it's not Light Boost 2 it's Nvidia 2 3D Vision which is their second improvement of 3D that includes their first version of Light Boost. It's not a second version of Light Boost fyi.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> And to make one small correction to OP title.....it's not Light Boost 2 it's Nvidia 2 3D Vision which is their second improvement of 3D that includes their first version of Light Boost. It's not a second version of Light Boost fyi.


Welcome! Glad to see a moderator join in the fun;

Yeah, I realized that sometime back around page #10 or so (several months ago); but I couldn't edit the thread topic anymore (I can edit posts but not topic threads after a time period). Since you're a mod, mind if you change "LightBoost2" to "LightBoost"?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> You working on 60hz lightboost hack in the near future? I see you got it for Mame emulator I think. So would it be possible for regular pc gaming in the near future for more demanding games. Thanks for all your work.


Theoretically yes, but it's a software based trick necessary to make this work (blacking out every other refresh: Software-based black frame insertion) --

It has now been added to MAME (beta) and WinUAE (beta), the arcade emulator and the Amiga emulator, beta download links are found in Comments at www.blurbusters.com/mame

For a universal black frame insertion app at 60fps @ 120Hz that works with all software, someone needs to write a driver hack or a software-based "always-on-top" flickering window overlay (flickering 60 Hz) that is super-precisely synchronized to the refreshes, to do the equivalent of blacking out every other refresh at 120 Hz, to produce the necessary *black frame insertion effect for 60fps material*, so we can keep the LightBoost zero motion blur effect for 60fps stuff. It's technically doable, but requires someone to program some appropriate software to pull this off. I suspect it will be easier to do for windowed apps and simple maximized windows than for full screen Direct3D apps (which override other windows' ability to pop on top), but should be possible to program it to make it work for full screen apps.

This wouldn't be necessary if LightBoost could be hacked to operate at 60 Hz, but we're lucky we've discovered a way to make the zero motion blur effect happen for 60 fps applications while keeping 120 Hz refresh, simply by blacking out every other refresh (software-based black frame insertion).


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Welcome! Glad to see a moderator join in the fun;
> 
> Yeah, I realized that sometime back around page #10 or so; but I couldn't edit the thread topic anymore (I can edit posts but not topic threads after a time period). Since you're a mod, mind if you change "LightBoost2" to "LightBoost"?


Done.


----------



## Razor 116

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Correct. It's turned on through the *Nvidia Control Panel* Steroscopic 3D section which requires an Nvidia card to enable the software and activate Nvidia 2 Light Boost feature which your monitor is capable of currently but unable to be utilized.
> 
> See Light Boost was created to enhance 3D Vision lighting when viewing 3D movies and 3D gaming. Nvidia has some great 3D Vision going on currently. This Light Boost feature inadvertently we've found has a dual purpose.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nvidia Control Panel - 3D Steroscopic page.
> 
> 
> Through 'Test Steroscopic 3D' one checks the option which enables Light Boost even when viewing movies, streaming. Gaming at 120 Hz with LB enabled even when not in 3D creates zero motion blur as per explanations provided in previous posts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And to make one small correction to OP title.....it's not Light Boost 2 it's Nvidia 2 3D Vision which is their second improvement of 3D that includes their first version of Light Boost. It's not a second version of Light Boost fyi.


I already know that and fully understand what Lightboost does. What I wanted was to see if the DDC/CI command is visible with an Nvidia GPU via SoftMCCS in the "Manufacturer Specific" section.


----------



## hammadj

Im guessing this isnt possible on AMD cards?


----------



## Razor 116

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammadj*
> 
> Im guessing this isnt possible on AMD cards?


Yes if you hotplug from a Nvidia rig to an amd rig but directly NO.


----------



## CallsignVega

You could buy some really cheap used NVIDIA card and plug it in to get your monitor to stick to LB really quick, then swap the monitor over to the AMD card.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> You could buy some really cheap used NVIDIA card and plug it in to get your monitor to stick to LB really quick, then swap the monitor over to the AMD card.


Yep, a $50 nVidia card activates LightBoost for a $600 AMD card


----------



## Razor 116

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Yep, a $50 nVidia card activates LightBoost for a $600 AMD card


I'd do that if all else fails but I'd rather get it to work on AMD rigs. Although this will eventually get noticed by manufacturers and will be enabled by default in future monitors.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razor 116*
> 
> I'd do that if all else fails but I'd rather get it to work on AMD rigs. Although this will eventually get noticed by manufacturers and will be enabled by default in future monitors.


For several reasons (brightness is lower, image quality, 120 Hz flicker can feel uncomfortable to some people, etc) doubtful it will be enabled by default but it should be made as easy to enable as a special button on the monitor or at least a menu option similar to Samsung's.

Like a special game-optimized "Motionflow" mode that can be turned on/off. (A Sony feature that can be turned on/off on Sony HDTV's, but LightBoost is superior to that because it is pure strobe based like CRT, has even less motion blur, does not use interpolation, and has less input lag)


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razor 116*
> 
> Could you install the softmccs application open it and screenshot it for me. My BenQ xl2411t does not show anythingin the "Manufacturer Specific" section. I assume this is because I have an AMD card.


I'll try it after I finish OC'ing all of the components of my system


----------



## shedokan

I just noticed using CRU removed all the refresh rates apart from 120Hz, why didnt it remove all supported resolutions apart from 1080p as well?


----------



## mdrejhon

The amount of resolutions to remove doesn't have to be that complete -- just enough to make games be forced to use LightBoost compatible modes (e.g. BF3 sometimes tries to switch to a non-LightBoost). Are you wanting to add them back?


----------



## th3illusiveman

What are the chances of a Manufacturer incorporating this concept into the monitor without the need for all this. etc, they design it with a selectable option from the monitors menu options and it does this effect without the need for Nvidia drivers?

Judging by the response in this thread it would make one hell of a marketing bullet point and get alot of people interested in it. Even if Nvidia made the option available in their control panel without the need for excessive tinkering i think that would be enough for people to choose a Geforce over a Radeon.


----------



## whybother

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> What are the chances of a Manufacturer incorporating this concept into the monitor without the need for all this. etc, they design it with a selectable option from the monitors menu options and it does this effect without the need for Nvidia drivers?
> 
> Judging by the response in this thread it would make one hell of a marketing bullet point and get alot of people interested in it. Even if Nvidia made the option available in their control panel without the need for excessive tinkering i think that would be enough for people to choose a Geforce over a Radeon.


Slim to none. It's all about the money.

Most 120hz displays are sold for their 3D capability. As we know, 99.9% of PC users are ignorant/oblivious to the advantages 120hz gives over 60hz. The majority of PC gamers are happy with 30-50fps for pete sake.

A scanning backlight option may one day exist in a passive 3D PC monitor. Being passive 3D it will of course only accept a 60hz signal.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> What are the chances of a Manufacturer incorporating this concept into the monitor without the need for all this. etc, they design it with a selectable option from the monitors menu options and it does this effect without the need for Nvidia drivers?
> 
> Judging by the response in this thread it would make one hell of a marketing bullet point and get alot of people interested in it. Even if Nvidia made the option available in their control panel without the need for excessive tinkering i think that would be enough for people to choose a Geforce over a Radeon.


Light Boost is an Nvidia propriety owned tech. NVidia gets a percentage of monitor sales from companies that use Light Boost. If the company dosen't agree then they aren't supported currently. All this can be thanked due to 3D Vision fun and a creative team.

It does feel like a selling point because even though I may be toying with the 1440 monitor it makes it tuff for me to switch when TN panels get this good with no motion blur without 3D.









1440 is beautiful resolution and many perks except for the response time gaming where the 120 Hz monitor with Light Boost is available now helps me pawn my enemies quicker.









I don't know the specifics if the monitor companies can come up with their own version of Light Boost which doesn't break the patent rights. Got to give Kudos in this area where Nvidia excels in 3D Vision.


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> I don't know the specifics if the monitor companies can come up with their own version of Light Boost which doesn't break the patent rights. Got to give Kudos in this area where Nvidia excels in 3D Vision.


They certainly can. Samsung's SA700/750/950 series use strobing backlights for their Frame Sequential 3D mode which gives an effect similar to LightBoost in 2D. Strobing backlights are commonly used in TV systems, too, to reduce apparent motion blur. I really do hope to see Samsung launch some similar models to replace these now discontinued wonders.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> They certainly can. Samsung's SA700/750/950 series use strobing backlights for their Frame Sequential 3D mode which gives an effect similar to LightBoost in 2D. Strobing backlights are commonly used in TV systems, too, to reduce apparent motion blur. I really do hope to see Samsung launch some similar models to replace these now discontinued wonders.


Thank you for clarifying that.









Curious why this way of strobing back lights didn't have the same effect in 2D gaming with motion blur?

Off topic - Do you know why they were discontinued? I looked at those monitors before my current one. If it wasn't for 3D Vision I was leaning SA950 route if I could have got passed the glossy panel. They are amazing monitors.....did I miss their upgrades? And if so, Did they come with the same strobing back light?


----------



## Razor 116

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> I'll try it after I finish OC'ing all of the components of my system


Cheers









Unfortunately my monitor has three permanently lit white pixels, luckily Amazon are pretty cool when it comes to replacements. Got a replacement that will be here Tuesday and the one I have will be picked up tomorrow. Can't say enough good things about Amazon, Great customer service.


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Thank you for clarifying that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Curious why this way of strobing back lights didn't have the same effect in 2D gaming with motion blur?
> 
> Off topic - Do you know why they were discontinued? I looked at those monitors before my current one. If it wasn't for 3D Vision I was leaning SA950 route if I could have got passed the glossy panel. They are amazing monitors.....did I miss their upgrades? And if so, Did they come with the same strobing back light?


The Samsung models do give a reduction in motion blur when gaming in 2D if you're using a strobing mode like Frame Sequential







. http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/samsung/

I don't know why they were discontinued to be honest. There were issues with backlight uniformity, but they aren't unique in that respect. There were also some notable loss of connection issues for the SA750 and SA950 using DisplayPort which was particularly problematic on the SA750 as it lacked DVI. This seemed to affect Nvidia users more readily. There were also some strange bugs such as this bright 'rainbow ghosting' which seems to occur if you switch from 'Faster' to 'Fastest' response time setting (particularly in game) but not if you switch from 'Normal' straight to 'Fastest'. Given the premium price tag, at least initially, perhaps the return rate was higher than Samsung could stomach.

I had hoped that these images would be rectified in a new revision or similar new release. I'm not really sure what's going on in that regard though!


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> The Samsung models do give a reduction in motion blur when gaming in 2D if you're using a strobing mode like Frame Sequential
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/samsung


They were extremely high priced, especially the 950D. So they may not have sold very well. IMHO, Samsung never marketed these monitors very well, and this was before Blur Busters Blog started widely publicizing the benefits of a strobe backlight for fast-action video gaming, for those people who really prefer the "CRT effect".

I suspect this is helping sell a bunch of BENQ XL2411T's and ASUS VG248QE's as we speak -- they have the price sweet spot of $300 which is half the price of a Samsung 950D -- and these new 1ms monitors arrived roughly around the same time the LightBoost trick was widely discovered (credit to esreality, TechNGaming for starting to publicize this more widely). I'd now bet that we're approaching 5-10% of sales of the new ASUS VG248QE is because somebody heard about LightBoost.

My blur busters blog web statistics (10,000 pageviews/week on LightBoost HOWTO, half of it from review websites like TechNGaming, etc.) is detecting blog reviewers from Poland, German, and Russia that's also discovered LightBoost.

Example (from overclockers.ru that showed up in my web statistics)
CRT Style. Обзор и тестирование монитора ASUS VG248QE
Quote:


> Процедура включения Lightboost для 2D довольно проста, не потребует специальных навыков и более 5 минут времени. Единственное «Но» - требуется видеокарта NVIDIA. C ускорителем AMD проделать подобное не удастся, как сейчас, так и по всей вероятности в будущем.
> Полученные результаты представлены ниже:


Poor English Translation:
Quote:


> The start up procedure for 2D Lightboost pretty simple, does not require special skills and more than 5 minutes of time. The only "but" - requires a graphics card NVIDIA. C accelerator AMD do not be like it is now, and probably in the future.
> The results are presented below:


There's a bunch of equivalent reviews in several other languages, including Poland, German... so it's selling Asus VG248QE's worldwide already.

Video game monitor manufacturers needs to take this VERY seriously; and start advertising the benefits... At least as an easy toggle feature (button, menu).


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Thank you for clarifying that.


Check out:
- Existing scanning backlight technology in HDTVs (none of them game-friendly due to input lag!!!)
- Scanning Backlight FAQ (very detailed)
- Science & References (interesting reading)
Quote:


> Curious why this way of strobing back lights didn't have the same effect in 2D gaming with motion blur?


There are many reasons:

1. Early scanning/strobe backlights like BENQ AMA-Z in year 2006 only reduced motion blur by about 1.5x and flickered annoyingly at 60 Hz.
......That's ONLY 30% less motion blur than 60 Hz LCD, flicker makes it not worthwhile.

2. Samsung/Sony HDTV scanning backlights only reduce motion by about 2x to 4x
......That's ONLY 50%-75% less motion blur than 60 Hz LCD, and very, very BAD input lag.
......Scanning backlights have a problem of diffusion between off-segments and on-segments; interferes with blur elimination.

3. Full panel strobe backlights are vastly superior for motion blur elimination, as a result.
...... But are more challenging for LCD panel itself; panel needs to do the difficult feat of cramming nearly the entire pixel persistence transition inside the time period of a vertical blanking interval-- the idle time period between refreshes -- required for 3D shutter glasses operation -- to get fully clear frames before next refresh begins. This wasn't possible until recently. Once this was done, it was possible to successfully shatter the pixel persistence barrier. (e.g. ASUS VG278H 2ms TN panel with a true measured MPRT of 1.4ms with a LightBoost backlight, LightBoost OSD=10%. Actsual measured MPRT's lower than pixel persistence!!! !!! !!! -- From the Blur Busters perspective, this is the key engineering breakthrough: the holy grail for motion blur elimination on LCD's. As a result, *there is actually now no limit to how sharp motion can be on an LCD*. Once pixel persistence was successfully compressed into the blanking interval, it was now possible to keep it in total darkness. The limiting factor is how short you can flash your backlight.

4. A tweaked LightBoost backlit LCD has 12x less motion blur (92% less motion blur!) than a 60 Hz LCD
It is only recently that the first strobed backlight that is truly worthwhile because
......it is computer/game friendly
......input lag is sufficiently low (for most people)
......no interpolation artifacts. It is pure.
......it flickers at sufficiently high frequencies (120 Hz)
......graphics are powerful enough for 120fps in many popular games (even if slightly older engines, like Source Engine)
......it has a large *order of magnitude reduction in motion blur* (provided fps=Hz -- e.g. [email protected])

But finally, game-worthwhile strobe backlight technology has arrived, long after manufacturers gave up marketing them to gamers. (e.g. BENQ in 2006). Manufacturers now need to come back and look at these seriously.

There are fewer disadvantages (than there used to be) so more and more people in the high end gaming niche market, are finally starting to say "wow"; even though poor scanning backlights have been somewhat "phony" (HDGuru's word) with less-than-expected benefit. My Scanning Backlight FAQ explains why they weren't worth it for computer/games yesterday, but are finally worth it today. (even though there is lots of improvement that can happen -- better color quality, bring the technology to IPS, shorter strobe lengths, easier to enable, etc)


----------



## thebski

I am attempting a set up very similar to what Vega is running. In fact, I had 3 VG248QE's sent to him for matte film removal, and I am also trying to run portrait surround. I have installed the inf file on all three monitors and installed the registry hack and have rebooted multiple times. I then enabled surround to get to 3240x1920 and set the refresh rate to 120hz.

This is the NVCP that I see:


There is no option to Set Up 3D and actually enable Lightboost. Even before I enabled surround I did not see any more options under Stereoscopic 3D. I am running 314 Beta drivers. Is there something I am missing?

Edit: What I would really like to get set up is 100hz Lightboost because I think I could run that better.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> There is no option to Set Up 3D and actually enable Lightboost. Even before I enabled surround I did not see any more options under Stereoscopic 3D. I am running 314 Beta drivers. Is there something I am missing?
> 
> Edit: What I would really like to get set up is 100hz Lightboost because I think I could run that better.


You have to enable 3D Vision *before* you merge your monitor into surround. Enable LightBoost on one monitor at a time. Apparently, it doesn't work if you haven't pre-initialized your monitors into 3D Vision at least once.

It becomes much easier if you have the shutter glasses emitter (Even if you don't plan to use it), then you can pull this off without the hack (.inf file). But if you don't, then you need to initialize LightBoost one monitor at a time (make each monitor take turns being the primary), and then you can do the CRU.exe method of doing surround via EDID override (at least until you unplug your monitor, then you have to do it over again or get the emitter.

Also, remember strobe lengths are longer at 100 Hz, so you get 20% more motion blur at 100 Hz than at 120 Hz, for the same LightBoost OSD setting, but this is better than judders (Which interferes with motion blur reduction/elimination). You do need fps=Hz operation to get maximum benefit from a strobed backlight technology.

The good news is ToastyX (Creater of CRU.exe) is now obtaining a LightBoost monitor, and he'll try to figure out an easy way of enabling LightBoost. I will be working with him with my knowledge. But for now, you'll have to do the hack method on each monitor before you tie them together with Surround. Keep tuned...


----------



## thebski

Ok, just to be sure I'm following what you are referring to as the hack ... I installed the.inf file to make it think I'm running VG278's for all 3 monitors in Device Manager. Then I installed the registry hack to allow 2D lightboost.

After that, with SLI disabled, the above photo is the only Stereoscopic 3D option I have. I have not tried enabling SLI in single screen mode. Is that what I am missing?


----------



## thebski

This is what my device manager and NVCP look like with all 3 displays activated in non-surround mode. Please note this is not possible in SLI because all 3 displays can't be activated since they are not all 3 on GPU 1.


----------



## CallsignVega

Ski, 3D option is removed in portrait. Rotate to landscape, enable 3D, rotate back to portrait.


----------



## thebski

Excellent. Thanks Vega!


----------



## Falkentyne

Finally got my VG248 to activate 3D after a long grueling fight with my MSI 1761 laptop and the 570m. At first the 3d option was never appearing in the control panel at all, and not even an option in the display driver installation package. HDMI to HDMI connection was worthless (ran at only 60 hz and using 120 hz at 800x600 and the monitor said "out of range"....what?). Got 120 hz ONLY at 800x600 with a DVI to HDMI adapter, but still couldn't get the drivers to install the 3d vision component (and apparently this is a LONG standing problem with various laptops that had OEM drivers originally installed).

Finally used a 3d emitter emulator and I guess that, combined with the monitor running at 120 hz *DURING* the Nvidia driver install allowed me to select 3d vision. but it still was GONE from the control panel. More fiddling and I got it to finally show the 3D optioin in control panel, probably a result of me manually "reinstalling" the Nvidia 3d vison drivers from the HDD, the 3d emitter emulator and the monitor at [email protected]

But clicking enable on the control panel did nothing to the monitor.

Then I decided to add the 1920x1080 resolution manually as shown in an above post, since the drivers were only allowing 60 hz. Then after testing the resolution, the monitor popped up an OSD error message of "improper display mode: please use a dual DVI cable" and to press Menu to exit the popup, but there was still a screen...looked like an 800x600 streteched all the way off screen and looked strange, but the monitor and drivers thought it was still [email protected]@120hz, and the monitor kicked into 3D mode instantly and the driver 3d test worked.

Hours of work to get that activated. Plugged it into my 7970, set the 120hz custom timing with CRU, and worked instantly after a reboot.


----------



## Swolern

Great job Falkentyne. I think your the first one to get the 2d lightboost working with an AMD GPU.







Hope it never disables on you. Mine will do that from time to time.


----------



## Falkentyne

Sorry, I'm not the first. Bunch of people already confirmed it works if you use an Nvidia GPU as monitor initializer then swap it to the Radeon (without unplugging), with the custom timings.

The problem is GETTING it to enable lightboost /3d after either a cold start (monitor unplugged) or on a fresh install without an Nvidia GPU to initialize it into the monitor memory first. That's what no one knows how to do yet....


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> Great job Falkentyne. I think your the first one to get the 2d lightboost working with an AMD GPU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope it never disables on you. Mine will do that from time to time.


Nope. Fifth or sixth. But yes, one of the first that did the trick using a nVidia laptop (easy to get on loan) -- no tower needed; no nVidia card needed. I know several others have done Radeon LightBoost via the nVidia-to-Radeon hotplug trick. The key is to not unplug the power cable of your monitor once LightBoost is initialized.

You just borrow a friend's nVidia laptop, configure its drivers, follow the LightBoost HOWTO, initialize LightBoost. Then hot plug back to your desktop. Now use ToastyX's CRU.exe to configure the 1920x1080 LightBoost compatible mode on Radeon (with a Vertical Total of 1149, instructions found in comments of my HOWTO). Viola, you now have LightBoost on Radeon. It stays on, for Asus VG248QE's provided you don't unplug your monitor.

Some model-specific quirks. Older BENQ XL2420T's will immediately forget the LightBoost mode once it goes to sleep mode. Fortunately, ASUS VG248QE's will remember LightBoost even after monitor sleep and computer reboots. You can even press the button on VG248QE to turn it off and it's okay, too. Just don't unplug power, and it will continue to keep LightBoost on Radeon. Using a UPS will help keep the LightBoost persistently unlocked through short outagse.


----------



## Miller31

finally got LB working properly ...prevous post I said it wasnt that great
I was wrong
its incredible
Thanks Mark


----------



## thebski

Vega, I messed around with a little last night. I have reverted back to landscape mode for now mainly because of the HUD issues in BF3 in the heli. It sucks because I can fly it way better in landscape, but the crosshairs are all messed up and make it impossible to hit anybody.

So I'm attempting to enable lightboost. I can get it to go on each monitor, but as soon as I switch to a different primary and apply it it just kicks lightboost onto that monitor and off of the other one. I did get one to stick and a second one to activate one time, but I could not get the third to activate.

What is the proper order to activate stuff so I can get it to stick before I enable surround?


----------



## qwkslvr

I just ordered a VG248QE. Thanks to you Vega! Now I'm debating if I should get another 680 4gb to sli my current setup on my x79 board or should I switch to triple 670 4gb (i found a good deal). I'm a bit concerned that Metro: Last Light would not hit 80fps+ with my dual 680 4gb on max settings. Any advice?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> Vega, I messed around with a little last night. I have reverted back to landscape mode for now mainly because of the HUD issues in BF3 in the heli. It sucks because I can fly it way better in landscape, but the crosshairs are all messed up and make it impossible to hit anybody.


Couldn't you just disable the crosshairs in the game, and enable the monitor's built-in crosshairs feature? BENQ XL2411T's and Asus VG248QE's have built-in hardware crosshairs feature.
Quote:


> So I'm attempting to enable lightboost. I can get it to go on each monitor, but as soon as I switch to a different primary and apply it it just kicks lightboost onto that monitor and off of the other one. I did get one to stick and a second one to activate one time, but I could not get the third to activate.
> What is the proper order to activate stuff so I can get it to stick before I enable surround?


You just need to activate LightBoost once each, one-by-one. Don't bother struggling to keep them all enabled at once; that's not important. They just need to be successfully initialized into LightBoost once each; so the monitor has a memory of LightBoost initialization.

Then go ahead and switch to surround mode.
Then use ToastyX's Custom Resolution Utility to re-enable LightBoost on all three monitors at once.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Miller31*
> 
> finally got LB working properly ...prevous post I said it wasnt that great
> I was wrong
> its incredible
> Thanks Mark


Thanks! I wonder how many people thought it wasn't great, because it wasn't enable correctly.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Couldn't you just disable the crosshairs in the game, and enable the monitor's built-in crosshairs feature?


Unfortunately not because the helicopter pilot has a mobile crosshairs for the rocket pods based on the momentum of the chopper. The crosshair moves all over the screen as you fly.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Don't bother struggling to keep them all enabled at once; that's not important. They just need to be successfully initialized into LightBoost once each; so the monitor has a memory of LightBoost initialization.
> 
> Then go ahead and switch to surround mode.
> Then use ToastyX's Custom Resolution Utility to re-enable LightBoost on all three monitors at once.


Thank you. I was unaware of that. I actually got lightboost enabled on all 3 monitors on the desktop in surround mode without Toasty's utility. Before I read this post I actually mirrored the third display and was able to get all 3 in lightboost at once and then enable surround. It did not hold, but I just launched the test application which kicked them into lightboost mode and they stayed. So it appears to be working on the desktop in surround. Even after some restarts it is holding.

Next problem I'm having is getting it to hold in game. I unchecked the 3d settings in NVCP so the games wouldn't launch in 3D, and as soon as I launch it kicks my monitors out of 3d mode so no lightboost. Then I tried keeping the box checked which launches games in 3D mode. As soon as I control+z out of 3D the screens flash a bunch, go blank and never recover so I have to do a hard restart. The good news is that when Windows boots back into the desktop they are still in Lightboost mode in surround. Just can't get it to work for some reason in games.

I really appreciate the help from you and Vega by the way, and for the entire thread and blog you've done in general. Really great work. + Rep.


----------



## thebski

I got it to go in Far Cry 3, but in BF3 the driver locks up as soon as I launch in 3D mode.

That begs the question how to get it to launch in 2D mode and still hold lightboost? Has anyone pried Vegas secrets from his hands yet?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> Next problem I'm having is getting it to hold in game. I unchecked the 3d settings in NVCP so the games wouldn't launch in 3D, and as soon as I launch it kicks my monitors out of 3d mode so no lightboost. Then I tried keeping the box checked which launches games in 3D mode. As soon as I control+z out of 3D the screens flash a bunch, go blank and never recover so I have to do a hard restart. The good news is that when Windows boots back into the desktop they are still in Lightboost mode in surround. Just can't get it to work for some reason in games.


Getting LightBoost to hold is done by using ToastyX's CRU. Delete the EDID extension block, and all 1080p modes and only have the one special 1920x1080 120Hz mode (Vertical Total 1149) for all 3 monitors (create on one monitor, copy to the other 2). Reboot. It'll finally stay persistent.

ToastyX is obtaining a LightBoost monitor as we speak, and will attempt to create an easy LightBoost utility. I was going to do the utility, but I'm glad ToastyX is doing this since I can focus 100% on my upcoming Blur Busters Motion Tests -- I might pitch in with some programming work later.

You're welcome!


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Getting LightBoost to hold is done by using ToastyX's CRU. Delete the EDID extension block, and all 1080p modes and only have the one special 1920x1080 120Hz mode (Vertical Total 1149) for all 3 monitors (create on one monitor, copy to the other 2). Reboot. It'll finally stay persistent.
> 
> ToastyX is obtaining a LightBoost monitor as we speak, and will attempt to create an easy LightBoost utility. I was going to do the utility, but I'm glad ToastyX is doing this since I can focus 100% on my upcoming Blur Busters Motion Tests -- I might pitch in with some programming work later.
> 
> You're welcome!


Sorry I am so dense man, but I am pretty clueless when it comes to displays and their inner-workings.

When you say delete the EDID extension block, do you mean delete the VG278 inf files I installed?

Also, when you say delete all 1080p modes, are you talking about in Toasty's utility?



This is what I see which only shows 1 1080p mode. Do I need to create a custom? If so, I don't know what all those other settings mean, lol.

Is there a post somewhere that I'm missing that explains how to use his utility, or am I the only dense guy in the thread?


----------



## thebski

So I have created this custom resolution in Toasty's utility.



Do I now export this as a .inf file and install for all 3 monitors in device manager? Or am I way off base?


----------



## Falkentyne

You delete and uncheck all the modes, and uncheck use extension block, then you need to manually add a 1920x1080 mode as shown in a previous screenshot, with the exact timings and values given. That's all.

That is just to make sure that games don't change the refresh rate on you.

If you're on an Ati card, the game should keep the native resolution you set in the CCC. I didnt need to delete and uncheck the existing modes.


----------



## thebski

I unchecked all boxes like you said and added the manual mode I showed above. Then I exported as .inf and installed on all three monitors. Rebooted, and now none of them are available for 3D (no longer have the VG278 inf).


----------



## Falkentyne

Oh sorry I can't help with that..I thought you were just using one monitor or you already had activated lightboost previously.


----------



## kevindd992002

Wouldn't running a game in 3D and turning off the 3D effects by using Ctrl+T in the game (the monitor is still in 3D but the game is in 2D so LB is still enabled) have the same effect as this hack?


----------



## Guerrilladawg

I was wondering, since people just found this...

Could this mean manufacturers will find a way to fix motion blur on lcd/led any time soon? I mean, you can fix it using this fix, but couldn't they just enable it in future screens as a standard?

It's by far the biggest problem with LCD's and I've been hoping for a while now that they would fix it or make better screens.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Guerrilladawg*
> 
> I was wondering, since people just found this...
> 
> Could this mean manufacturers will find a way to fix motion blur on lcd/led any time soon? I mean, you can fix it using this fix, but couldn't they just enable it in future screens as a standard?
> 
> It's by far the biggest problem with LCD's and I've been hoping for a while now that they would fix it or make better screens.


They've been bringing scanning backlights to high-end HDTV's for many years now. There are several problems with them:

(1) They also use motion interpolation, which is terrible for input lag. Not game/computer friendly. LightBoost is computer friendly.
(2) Full-panel strobe backlights are superior to scanning backlights, because you don't have to worry about diffusion between off-segments and on-segments from interfering with motion blur elimination. LightBoost is a full panel strobe abcklight.
(3) Some of them flicker too much. LightBoost solves that by doing 120 Hz flicker instead of 60 Hz.
(4) They are too expensive. LightBoost is expensive too, but $300 for a VG248QE is still far less than a $2000 HDTV.
(5) Only minor motion blur reductions, far less than claimed. Often only 2x to 4x less motion blur. LightBoost has an actual measured *order of magnitude less motion blur than a 60 Hz LCD*

The coincidence of many simultaneous problems solved (by LightBoost), finally brought the "motion clarity" holy grail to LCD displays (if you can get 120fps @ 120Hz), in a game/computer compatible manner that has far less disadvantages than yesterday's flashing backlight technologies.

LightBoost solved many of these problems!


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I unchecked all boxes like you said and added the manual mode I showed above. Then I exported as .inf and installed on all three monitors. Rebooted, and now none of them are available for 3D (no longer have the VG278 inf).


I am sorry that this must be very frustrating for you; surround LightBoost is still kind of a bleeding edge difficulty (Hopefully Vega can keep helping you, too, until we come up with reliable surround instructions).

Can you check your nVidia Control Panel and see if you're still running in the custom 1080p mode?


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I unchecked all boxes like you said and added the manual mode I showed above. Then I exported as .inf and installed on all three monitors. Rebooted, and now none of them are available for 3D (no longer have the VG278 inf).


Him, I haven't been running any custom .inf's as I have an emitter. I found everything works better with a real emitter personally. Once the three monitors are LB "stuck", add the custom resolutions via Nvidia control panel, then Cru.exe, then reboot. Monitors should be in LB and stay that way when when you set up surround. They key is to make sure you only have the single 1080p resolution so that windows and games cannot use anything else and kick off LB.

I'd test with the monitor .inf's but my pc is on the operating table with a new liquid build. Typing this from an ipad.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Wouldn't running a game in 3D and turning off the 3D effects by using Ctrl+T in the game (the monitor is still in 3D but the game is in 2D so LB is still enabled) have the same effect as this hack?


Anyone?


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> I am sorry that this must be very frustrating for you; surround LightBoost is still kind of a bleeding edge difficulty (Hopefully Vega can keep helping you, too, until we come up with reliable surround instructions).
> 
> Can you check your nVidia Control Panel and see if you're still running in the custom 1080p mode?


Oh it's not too bad really. I understand that patience is required when trying to make things do what they may not have been exactly intended to do. That's part of the fun







. I will probably have some time to play more with it later tonight. If not, then tomorrow night.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Him, I haven't been running any custom .inf's as I have an emitter. I found everything works better with a real emitter personally. Once the three monitors are LB "stuck", add the custom resolutions via Nvidia control panel, then Cru.exe, then reboot. Monitors should be in LB and stay that way when when you set up surround. They key is to make sure you only have the single 1080p resolution so that windows and games cannot use anything else and kick off LB.
> 
> I'd test with the monitor .inf's but my pc is on the operating table with a new liquid build. Typing this from an ipad.


Can't wait to see it Vega. Mine will be under the knife tomorrow night getting those blocks installed. I will have to play with it some more tonight. Do you have a link to the emitter you're using, or is it just an nVidia 3d Vision kit?

I'm not necessarily dying to get it to work right now as I don't think I have the horsepower to pull off 120 FPS all the time (I could keep it close to 100 FPS I think in most games). However, seeing LB work just on the desktop is making me very eager to see it in game even if it's just for a little bit on lower settings







.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Anyone?


I think that method works, but it takes a while for the driver to go from 3D to 2D and is rather annoying. Plus, like I said my BF3 locks up the second I launch in 3D mode.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I think that method works, but it takes a while for the driver to go from 3D to 2D and is rather annoying. Plus, like I said my BF3 locks up the second I launch in 3D mode.


Ahh ok. But how do you keep a game from launching automatically in 3D?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Anyone?


There can be more input lag using the Control+T method, and there's been some reports of instability problems. That's why enabling LightBoost while keeping stereoscopic disabled, is a highly favoured LightBoost mode on this forum.


----------



## mdrejhon

Here's some good stuff about motion artifacts during non-LightBoost operation:
Quote:


> The Blur Busters has created LCD Motion Artifacts 101, showing accurate photography
> of *ghosting, coronas, motion blur, and PWM artifacts*!
> 
> . .
> 
> . .
> 
> We are the world's first blog to utilize a pursuit camera for capturing motion artifacts!
> See LCD Motion Artifacts 101!


----------



## Ryld Baenre

I had some solid paper writing to do last weekend and grabbed an old monitor (BenQ FP737s) I had sitting around so I could have more workspace to do research on while I was typing. After the writing was over I wanted to gouge my eyes out. 60 Hz non-LB is just torture compared 120 Hz LB. It likely doesn't help that the monitor is going on 5 years old.

I also ran into an odd occurrence on the weekend. I was playing the neverwinter beta and noticed my FPS was being capped at 60 by the in game settings, I have it capped at 120 in precision x. When I changed the in game setting to 120 Hz it automatically kicked me into 3D mode. When I pressed Ctrl+t to get out of 3D mode it reverted back to 60 Hz. Anyone have a similar experience in another game or the beta in the off chance someone was in it?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ryld Baenre*
> 
> I had some solid paper writing to do last weekend and grabbed an old monitor (BenQ FP737s) I had sitting around so I could have more workspace to do research on while I was typing. After the writing was over I wanted to gouge my eyes out. 60 Hz non-LB is just torture compared 120 Hz LB. It likely doesn't help that the monitor is going on 5 years old.


Interesting to hear that LB has less eyestrain for you than non-LB. Because LB is essentially motion-optimized 120 Hz PWM. (zero PWM artifacts).

Unlike the Asus (which has good colors), I noticed I had much more eyestrain with excess BENQ brightness (LightBoost turned off). So my cause of eyestrain is improper brightness adjustment; I'm not eyestrain-sensitive to PWM.
Quote:


> I also ran into an odd occurrence on the weekend. I was playing the neverwinter beta and noticed my FPS was being capped at 60 by the in game settings, I have it capped at 120 in precision x. When I changed the in game setting to 120 Hz it automatically kicked me into 3D mode. When I pressed Ctrl+t to get out of 3D mode it reverted back to 60 Hz. Anyone have a similar experience in another game or the beta in the off chance someone was in it?


Games that override the refresh rate are rather annoying. Please report a bug immediately, pronto -- it's a BETA, after all!

To prevent this, you can use ToastyX's Custom Resolution Utility to force games to only use 120 Hz. Delete the EDID exstension block and all 1920x1080p modes so that the 60 Hz mode does not exist; so games have no choice but to use 120 Hz.


----------



## Ryld Baenre

I think most of the strain came from the fact that I read while scrolling a lot and it was impossible to do on the old monitor, even scrolling slowly things were unreadable.That being said I have my monitor in LB mode 100% of the time and it hasn't bothered me. The brightness is the thing that also gets me.


----------



## Razor 116

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Unlike the Asus (which has good colors), I noticed I had much more eyestrain with excess BENQ brightness (LightBoost turned off). So my cause of eyestrain is improper brightness adjustment; I'm not eyestrain-sensitive to PWM.


Totally agree the the brightness on the Benq is seriously excessive even at 0. Unfortunately the replacement I got from Amazon has streaks, almost like smudges going from the bottom to the middle. This is starting to get annoying, first permanelty lit pixels now smudges on the second. Is there any QC at Benq, I cannot believe someone quality testing these monitors did not notice the issues. The smudges are more noticeable than a permanetly white pixel as its noticeable even in games and not just on a vlack screen. Guess its another replacement for me


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ryld Baenre*
> 
> I think most of the strain came from the fact that I read while scrolling a lot and it was impossible to do on the old monitor, even scrolling slowly things were unreadable.That being said I have my monitor in LB mode 100% of the time and it hasn't bothered me. The brightness is the thing that also gets me.


LightBoost certainly makes it possible to read text while a web browser is scrolling on the fly. That's a blurry mess on all other LCD's.

Have you ever tried adjusting the LightBoost OSD setting, to see how it affects reading while smooth scrolling?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> There can be more input lag using the Control+T method, and there's been some reports of instability problems. That's why enabling LightBoost while keeping stereoscopic disabled, is a highly favoured LightBoost mode on this forum.


Great, thanks! Lightboost won't affect FPS in any way, right?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razor 116*
> 
> Totally agree the the brightness on the Benq is seriously excessive even at 0. Unfortunately the replacement I got from Amazon has streaks, almost like smudges going from the bottom to the middle. This is starting to get annoying, first permanelty lit pixels now smudges on the second. Is there any QC at Benq, I cannot believe someone quality testing these monitors did not notice the issues. The smudges are more noticeable than a permanetly white pixel as its noticeable even in games and not just on a vlack screen. Guess its another replacement for me


Is this the same for all BenQ monitors like my XL2420TX?


----------



## Falkentyne

Lightboost has nothing to do with the video card's bandwidth or fill rate. That's why you can 'activate' it by initializing the timings, and then plug the monitor from an Nvidia video card to an Ati video card. It SHOULD be possible, since it's NOT videocard dependent, to send it a custom DDC/CI signal to trick it into activating lightboost (after a hard power off--plug, not power button) without an Nvidia card. Thus your FPS isn't affected at all.

The "problem" with lightboost is you want FPS to match refresh rate as much as possible. And it doesn't matter whether vsync is on (with triplebuffering) or off...the image will look VERY stuttery if your FPS drops more than 5 fps under the refresh rate of 120. And if it it drops by half often, you are far better off using 144 hz mode without lightboost. CRT's can handle that drop in framerate better than lightboost LCD's. The LCD "double image" effect of having 60 [email protected] hz refresh rate with lightboost enabled is far worse than a CRT at 60fps @ 120 hz.

So depending on the game you're playing, you need to test and see if you can maintain an average of 120 fps and have it drop no lower than 100. Otherwise you're better off at 144 hz. So don't bother doing this in Crysis 3 or Battlefield 3. BF3's framerate can drop into the 70's regardless of how many video cards you are using, unless you're using a 6 core CPU or have a VERY high overclock.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> So depending on the game you're playing, you need to test and see if you can maintain an average of 120 fps and have it drop no lower than 100. Otherwise you're better off at 144 hz. So don't bother doing this in Crysis 3 or Battlefield 3. BF3's framerate can drop into the 70's regardless of how many video cards you are using, unless you're using a 6 core CPU or have a VERY high overclock.


Actually, I've gotten rave reviews from Battlefield 3 users (I can easily quote a bunch), but they all have had SLI (dual 680's, 690's or Titan's). Apparently, it's good enough to benefit Battlefield 3. But it certainly benefits source engine games such as CS:GO more since that easily consistently stays at 120fps.

It doesn't look bad per se at 70fps, and as long as that's your minimum average framerate, and you often run at higher, you're still going to have the LightBoost fun most of the time.

If you fall below 60fps all the time, that's a different story altogether -- 144 Hz non-LightBoost will probably benefit sub-60fps-average games more.

Also, LightBoost supports 100Hz. So you get LightBoost benefit for anything higher than 50fps in this situation. Longer strobe lengths are used, so adjust your LightBoost OSD setting downwards a little bit.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Actually, I've gotten rave reviews from Battlefield 3 users (I can easily quote a bunch), but they all have had SLI (dual 680's, 690's or Titan's). Apparently, it's good enough to benefit Battlefield 3. But it certainly benefits source engine games such as CS:GO more since that easily consistently stays at 120fps.
> 
> It doesn't look bad per se at 70fps, and as long as that's your minimum average framerate, and you often run at higher, you're still going to have the LightBoost fun most of the time.
> 
> If you fall below 60fps all the time, that's a different story altogether -- 144 Hz non-LightBoost will probably benefit sub-60fps-average games more.
> 
> Also, LightBoost supports 100Hz. So you get LightBoost benefit for anything higher than 50fps in this situation. Longer strobe lengths are used, so adjust your LightBoost OSD setting downwards a little bit.


I thought it will be stuttery if it falls more than 5fps below 120Hz? Then that means my fps should be greater than 115 in order to have complete smoothness of any game?


----------



## Falkentyne

It will look stuttery but not bad. It only gets bad when your FPS starts approaching 60. THEN it gets bad.

Mark, how do you get LB working at 100hz refresh rate for 100 fps vsync on? The CRU timings were only for 120 hz....


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> It will look stuttery but not bad. It only gets bad when your FPS starts approaching 60. THEN it gets bad.
> 
> Mark, how do you get LB working at 100hz refresh rate for 100 fps vsync on? The CRU timings were only for 120 hz....


I have a 3D emitter, so I can switch to any 3D Vision supported timings without CRU. I swear... It is an order of magnitude easier to enable LightBoost when you have the nVidia 3D Vision emitter built into your monitor (VG278H). I own both the Asus VG278H and the BENQ XL2411T.

I can easily snoop the 100 Hz timing in nVidia Custom Resolution (the vendor official custom resolution utility), and copy it to CRU. I can write down the numbers for any LightBoost supported refresh rate between 100.0 Hz and 120.0 Hz, in 0.001 Hz increments; the only key ingredient is a larger Vertical Total for all of them. As a rule of thumb, the same numbers generally usually work at 100 Hz and 120 Hz -- only the dotclock / scan rates / Hz are different.

120 Hz is just the mode in highest demand; since it has lower input lag, it's the highest supported LightBoost refresh rate.


----------



## mdrejhon

A very useful article:
*"Why Do Some OLED's Have Motion Blur?"*

I would like to buy an OLED monitor -- It could eventually be The Holy Grail -- but unfortunately the first cheap OLED monitors is likely to have the *sample-and-hold issue*, which means *even 0ms instant pixel response still has motion blur*. I'm not expecting all correct OLED checkboxes to be checked off until sometime in the 2020's at the consumer market level (rather than the elite high-cost level).


----------



## Ansive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Lightboost has nothing to do with the video card's bandwidth or fill rate. That's why you can 'activate' it by initializing the timings, and then plug the monitor from an Nvidia video card to an Ati video card. It SHOULD be possible, since it's NOT videocard dependent, to send it a custom DDC/CI signal to trick it into activating lightboost (after a hard power off--plug, not power button) without an Nvidia card. Thus your FPS isn't affected at all.
> 
> The "problem" with lightboost is you want FPS to match refresh rate as much as possible. And it doesn't matter whether vsync is on (with triplebuffering) or off...the image will look VERY stuttery if your FPS drops more than 5 fps under the refresh rate of 120. And if it it drops by half often, you are far better off using 144 hz mode without lightboost. *CRT's can handle that drop in framerate better than lightboost LCD's. The LCD "double image" effect of having 60 [email protected] hz refresh rate with lightboost enabled is far worse than a CRT at 60fps @ 120 hz.*
> 
> So depending on the game you're playing, you need to test and see if you can maintain an average of 120 fps and have it drop no lower than 100. Otherwise you're better off at 144 hz. So don't bother doing this in Crysis 3 or Battlefield 3. BF3's framerate can drop into the 70's regardless of how many video cards you are using, unless you're using a 6 core CPU or have a VERY high overclock.


That makes no sense, are you sure they don't look the same?


----------



## Falkentyne

100% positive. Been using CRT's every day until the last 2 weeks when i got my Asus VG248 and been using LB for a week. The image effect of having the FPS go a lot under refresh rate (with triple buffering if vsync is on of course) looks worse on the LB enabled monitor than on the CRT. BF3 at around 70 FPS on the Dell CRT I got rid of looked less double imagey (AND less mouse lag) than on the lightboost monitor.

But at 120 fps, both look the same.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> 100% positive. Been using CRT's every day until the last 2 weeks when i got my Asus VG248 and been using LB for a week. The image effect of having the FPS go a lot under refresh rate (with triple buffering if vsync is on of course) looks worse on the LB enabled monitor than on the CRT.


*Falkentyne, make sure to compare apples to apples.*








Compare 120 Hz LightBoost to 120 Hz CRT
Compare 100 Hz LightBoost to 100 Hz CRT
We should not compare 85 Hz CRT to 120 Hz LightBoost.

Also, set LightBoost to roughly a similar length as CRT phosphor decay; which only occurs at LightBoost=50% or less. It is possible the correct non-red-herring answer is "LightBoost can't run at 85 Hz, to gain the same fluidity as an 85 Hz CRT". That may be the problem instead.


----------



## John117

Does it work with Passive 3D Monitors?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *John117*
> 
> Does it work with Passive 3D Monitors?


No. The passive 3D monitors don't have a stroboscopic backlight.


----------



## Heazy

When I go to install the INF override file it says "The INF file you selected does not support this method of installation"

Can anyone help with this?


----------



## Falkentyne

LOL.....common mistake.
Go to display settings, advanced, monitor, then choose update driver. then go to "i wlil choose from a list of drivers myself", choose "have disk" and select the FOLDER with the INF in it.
That's all.

You will probably need to disable UAC or put windows in test mode.


----------



## Heazy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> LOL.....common mistake.
> Go to display settings, advanced, monitor, then choose update driver. then go to "i wlil choose from a list of drivers myself", choose "have disk" and select the FOLDER with the INF in it.
> That's all.
> 
> You will probably need to disable UAC or put windows in test mode.


Was this directed at me?


----------



## ranseed

Hey mdrejhon I have a question about input lag that I'm wondering if you might have an answer to. For a game like quakelive where the fps cap is 125, is it better to cap refresh rate at 120hz or 125hz? Or just leave it at 144hz even though you only are getting 125 fps?


----------



## ToastyX

I got the VG248QE, but I haven't had any luck enabling LightBoost with an AMD/ATI card. It doesn't seem to be a simple DDC command. I will work with Mark to try to figure this out.

Edit: LightBoost on AMD/ATI and NVIDIA is now possible with Strobelight

For NVIDIA users, LightBoost can be enabled entirely by using CRU without installing inf or reg files.

http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU


The drop-down list should have an entry for each monitor. If there are more entries and you're not sure which ones are active, run reset-all.exe and reboot. That should leave you with an entry for each connected monitor.
If you don't have a 3D emitter, use the "Edit..." button at the very top to set the product ID to ACI27F8 for each monitor. This will make the driver think you have a VG278H with a built-in emitter so you can enable 3D mode. The model name doesn't matter and can be set to whatever you want.
Use the "Import..." button at the bottom to import this file: lightboost.bin
I've included the 120/110/100 Hz LightBoost resolutions. You can remove the ones you don't need. If you have multiple monitors, use the copy and paste buttons at the top to copy the resolutions to the other monitor entries.
Click OK to save the changes, then reboot.
In the NVIDIA control panel, open the "Set up stereoscopic 3D" page, then click the "Run Setup Wizard" button. If the button isn't there, uncheck "Enable stereoscopic 3D" and click the "Apply" button.
In the setup wizard, click the "Next" button, then click "Next" again. At this point, it should enable LightBoost, and if you don't have an emitter, the mouse cursor will be very sluggish and jerky. If you don't need to enable 3D, you can exit here. Otherwise, continue the wizard as usual.
Now LightBoost should be enabled and stay enabled as long as the monitor isn't unplugged. If there is a power outage, you will have to run the setup wizard again.

If you update the video driver, you might have to go through the process again. I might make a program to simplify the process, but I need to figure out how to enable LightBoost directly in the monitor without having to run the setup wizard manually.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ToastyX*
> 
> _(helpful stuff)_


Awesome, ToastyX is on board!

CRU is amazing btw, really love your work


----------



## Falkentyne

@Heazy:

Yea. Another person had the same problem and he kept trying to fix it for hours. Mark and I kept trying to help him, then suddenly he admitted he did something *extremely* carelesse, and got it to work easily.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ToastyX*
> 
> I got the VG248QE, but I haven't had any luck enabling LightBoost with an AMD/ATI card. It doesn't seem to be a simple DDC command. I will work with Mark to try to figure this out.
> 
> For NVIDIA users, LightBoost can be enabled entirely by using CRU without installing inf or reg files.
> 
> http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU
> 
> 
> The drop-down list should have an entry for each monitor. If there are more entries and you're not sure which ones are active, run reset-all.exe and reboot. That should leave you with an entry for each connected monitor.
> If you don't have a 3D emitter, use the "Edit..." button at the very top to set the product ID to ACI27F8 for each monitor. This will make the driver think you have a VG278H with a built-in emitter so you can enable 3D mode. The model name doesn't matter and can be set to whatever you want.
> Use the "Import..." button at the bottom to import this file: lightboost.bin
> I've included the 120/110/100 Hz LightBoost resolutions. You can remove the ones you don't need. If you have multiple monitors, use the copy and paste buttons at the top to copy the resolutions to the other monitor entries.
> Click OK to save the changes, then reboot.
> In the NVIDIA control panel, open the "Set up stereoscopic 3D" page, then click the "Run Setup Wizard" button. If the button isn't there, uncheck "Enable stereoscopic 3D" and click the "Apply" button.
> In the setup wizard, click the "Next" button, then click "Next" again. At this point, it should enable LightBoost, and if you don't have an emitter, the mouse cursor will be very sluggish and jerky. If you don't need to enable 3D, you can exit here. Otherwise, continue the wizard as usual.
> Now LightBoost should be enabled and stay enabled as long as the monitor isn't unplugged. If there is a power outage, you will have to run the setup wizard again.
> 
> If you update the video driver, you might have to go through the process again. I might make a program to simplify the process, but I need to figure out how to enable LightBoost directly in the monitor without having to run the setup wizard manually.


Thanks! that 100 hz bin timing was EXACTLY what I needed to edit on the AMD card for CRU !!! I spent **HOURS** trying to get 100hz working before







I already had 120hz working after swapping from the Geforce laptop but 120 hz FPS cap is too hard to maintain in Black Ops 2 and BF3 and some other games.....100hz is a LOT nicer


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ranseed*
> 
> Hey mdrejhon I have a question about input lag that I'm wondering if you might have an answer to. For a game like quakelive where the fps cap is 125, is it better to cap refresh rate at 120hz or 125hz? Or just leave it at 144hz even though you only are getting 125 fps?


Cap it at 120 and use 120 hz. You want the FPS To exactly match the refresh rate ideally. There is no 125 hz refresh rate. And you won't be able to tell the difference in input lag between 120 and 144. Even 100 works great in games that need a realistic 100 fps cap.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Cap it at 120 and use 120 hz. You want the FPS To exactly match the refresh rate ideally. There is no 125 hz refresh rate. And you won't be able to tell the difference in input lag between 120 and 144. Even 100 works great in games that need a realistic 100 fps cap.


Generally, is it higher refresh rate (FPS) lower input lag?


----------



## shedokan

I still don't understand why it requires all these steps while it can be enabled in 1 step, or is it more aimed at ATI card users? At least I hope so.


----------



## PiERiT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ToastyX*
> 
> I got the VG248QE, but I haven't had any luck enabling LightBoost with an AMD/ATI card. It doesn't seem to be a simple DDC command. I will work with Mark to try to figure this out.
> 
> For NVIDIA users, LightBoost can be enabled entirely by using CRU without installing inf or reg files.
> 
> http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU
> 
> 
> The drop-down list should have an entry for each monitor. If there are more entries and you're not sure which ones are active, run reset-all.exe and reboot. That should leave you with an entry for each connected monitor.
> If you don't have a 3D emitter, use the "Edit..." button at the very top to set the product ID to ACI27F8 for each monitor. This will make the driver think you have a VG278H with a built-in emitter so you can enable 3D mode. The model name doesn't matter and can be set to whatever you want.
> Use the "Import..." button at the bottom to import this file: lightboost.bin
> I've included the 120/110/100 Hz LightBoost resolutions. You can remove the ones you don't need. If you have multiple monitors, use the copy and paste buttons at the top to copy the resolutions to the other monitor entries.
> Click OK to save the changes, then reboot.
> In the NVIDIA control panel, open the "Set up stereoscopic 3D" page, then click the "Run Setup Wizard" button. If the button isn't there, uncheck "Enable stereoscopic 3D" and click the "Apply" button.
> In the setup wizard, click the "Next" button, then click "Next" again. At this point, it should enable LightBoost, and if you don't have an emitter, the mouse cursor will be very sluggish and jerky. If you don't need to enable 3D, you can exit here. Otherwise, continue the wizard as usual.
> Now LightBoost should be enabled and stay enabled as long as the monitor isn't unplugged. If there is a power outage, you will have to run the setup wizard again.
> 
> If you update the video driver, you might have to go through the process again. I might make a program to simplify the process, but I need to figure out how to enable LightBoost directly in the monitor without having to run the setup wizard manually.


No red tint with this method. Neat.


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ToastyX*
> 
> I got the VG248QE, but I haven't had any luck enabling LightBoost with an AMD/ATI card. It doesn't seem to be a simple DDC command. I will work with Mark to try to figure this out.
> 
> For NVIDIA users, LightBoost can be enabled entirely by using CRU without installing inf or reg files.
> 
> http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU
> 
> 
> The drop-down list should have an entry for each monitor. If there are more entries and you're not sure which ones are active, run reset-all.exe and reboot. That should leave you with an entry for each connected monitor.
> If you don't have a 3D emitter, use the "Edit..." button at the very top to set the product ID to ACI27F8 for each monitor. This will make the driver think you have a VG278H with a built-in emitter so you can enable 3D mode. The model name doesn't matter and can be set to whatever you want.
> Use the "Import..." button at the bottom to import this file: lightboost.bin
> I've included the 120/110/100 Hz LightBoost resolutions. You can remove the ones you don't need. If you have multiple monitors, use the copy and paste buttons at the top to copy the resolutions to the other monitor entries.
> Click OK to save the changes, then reboot.
> In the NVIDIA control panel, open the "Set up stereoscopic 3D" page, then click the "Run Setup Wizard" button. If the button isn't there, uncheck "Enable stereoscopic 3D" and click the "Apply" button.
> In the setup wizard, click the "Next" button, then click "Next" again. At this point, it should enable LightBoost, and if you don't have an emitter, the mouse cursor will be very sluggish and jerky. If you don't need to enable 3D, you can exit here. Otherwise, continue the wizard as usual.
> Now LightBoost should be enabled and stay enabled as long as the monitor isn't unplugged. If there is a power outage, you will have to run the setup wizard again.
> 
> If you update the video driver, you might have to go through the process again. I might make a program to simplify the process, but I need to figure out how to enable LightBoost directly in the monitor without having to run the setup wizard manually.


Going to try this even though I had no issues with inf and reg files on vg278HE. I see you allow 120/110/100 lightboost resolutions. Any plans to figure out a solution for 60 hz lightboost in the near future? This would be nice for heavy demanding games. Thanks in advance.


----------



## ToastyX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> I see you allow 120/110/100 lightboost resolutions. Any plans to figure out a solution for 60 hz lightboost in the near future?


The monitor seems to be hard-wired to only handle LightBoost at 100/110/120 Hz +/- 1 Hz.


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ToastyX*
> 
> The monitor seems to be hard-wired to only handle LightBoost at 100/110/120 Hz +/- 1 Hz.


Thanks for the quick reply. Mark said something about black frame insertion with 120hz lightboost and 60fps vsync. Would you be able to do this?


----------



## Falkentyne

That's for MAME emulator. The source code for MAME was modified.

Doing that to affect other programs requires hacking the display driver, aka Powerstrip....


----------



## ToastyX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> Thanks for the quick reply. Mark said something about black frame insertion with 120hz lightboost and 60fps vsync. Would you be able to do this?


Software-based black frame insertion may be possible and is something I considered before, but I didn't pursue the idea because it would cut the refresh rate in half, and it would only work for windowed programs because full screen programs have exclusive access to the screen, although you could run a program in a full screen window to work around that.

I will take a second look at this idea because it would really be beneficial for these monitors. The main problem is whether it can be done fast enough and reliably.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Generally, is it higher refresh rate (FPS) lower input lag?


Yes but if you're at 100+hz, the input lag is a non factor, and you will not notice any input lag at 120hz. I honestly notice zero difference at 120 hz with lightboost in input lag, than I did on my CRT at 120hz (vsync on)..


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Yes but if you're at 100+hz, the input lag is a non factor, and you will not notice any input lag at 120hz. I honestly notice zero difference at 120 hz with lightboost in input lag, than I did on my CRT at 120hz (vsync on)..


Hmm, that's interesting. Thanks.


----------



## writer21

Anyone notice lower gpu usage with toasty's program? I can use more MSAA and still have lower gpu usage. Going to test BF3. Also pixperpan is crashing now. Don't know if it has to do with the program.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> Anyone notice lower gpu usage with toasty's program? I can use more MSAA and still have lower gpu usage. Going to test BF3. Also pixperpan is crashing now. Don't know if it has to do with the program.


You mean CRU.exe?

That shouldn't affect GPU usage. Also keep in mind that if you're running vsync on, Triple buffering may not be working correctly so your FPS may be halved (sometimes alt tabbing fixes this).


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> You mean CRU.exe?
> 
> That shouldn't affect GPU usage. Also keep in mind that if you're running vsync on, Triple buffering may not be working correctly so your FPS may be halved (sometimes alt tabbing fixes this).


Nope GPU is definitely lower. Black Ops 2 I used to have to settle for 2xMSAA with smaa and medium shadows and that kept me in the 80s-90s. Now my card has a problem even hitting 70 gpu usage with 16xcsaa and medium shadows. I had to increase to 8xMSAA because card was downclocking because of lower usage. Im going to test some more but a demanding game like Max Payne 3 feels smoother.


----------



## Falkentyne

that's interesting. But CRU.exe does nothing except force custom resolutions and allow you to manually specify a refresh rate. It sounds like you may have run into a bizarre driver issue that was averted by having the other refresh rates and resolutions deleted in the registry by CRU.exe.

This also stops directX 10 games from using the lowest available refresh rate, like 60 (or even worse, 59 or 43 or someothing) in games like Crysis. It will instead be forced to use 100 hz without tools, with ToastyX's bin and CRU.exe. (you can even use it without a lightboost monitor, as long as its capable of 1920x1200 @ 120hz, or add lower resolutions or higher for bigger screens).

This is actually great for FW900 or other CRT users who have to deal with games forcing themselves to 60 hz and ignoring the desktop refresh rate.


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> that's interesting. But CRU.exe does nothing except force custom resolutions and allow you to manually specify a refresh rate. It sounds like you may have run into a bizarre driver issue that was averted by having the other refresh rates and resolutions deleted in the registry by CRU.exe.
> 
> This also stops directX 10 games from using the lowest available refresh rate, like 60 (or even worse, 59 or 43 or someothing) in games like Crysis. It will instead be forced to use 100 hz without tools, with ToastyX's bin and CRU.exe. (you can even use it without a lightboost monitor, as long as its capable of 1920x1200 @ 120hz, or add lower resolutions or higher for bigger screens).
> 
> This is actually great for FW900 or other CRT users who have to deal with games forcing themselves to 60 hz and ignoring the desktop refresh rate.


Don't know anything about the program. All I know everything is easier. No more ctrl+t when starting game and gpu usage along with temps are lower.


----------



## manicmonkey

Got this working the other day and I have to say it is so much better than without it. Had some trouble upon installing new drivers (314.21), but just realized I had to apply the registry setting again for it to work!


----------



## Falkentyne

Click "Apply" after clicking "enable stereoscopic 3d, if you're getting "run setup wizard" instead of "test stereoscopic."

It shoudln't automatically launch setup just by clicking the checkbox...


----------



## manicmonkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Click "Apply" after clicking "enable stereoscopic 3d, if you're getting "run setup wizard" instead of "test stereoscopic."
> 
> It shoudln't automatically launch setup just by clicking the checkbox...


Well, on previous drivers it didn't, but just clicking on the checkbox brings up a full-screen 3d setup guide now before re-doing the reg tweak.


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *manicmonkey*
> 
> Well, on previous drivers it didn't, but just clicking on the checkbox brings up a full-screen 3d setup guide now before re-doing the reg tweak.


I think I still have the reg tweak installed since I don't know how to uninstall. Works flawless though. Do you notice lower gpu usage? I swear games like black ops 2 where I was struggling to keep 125 with just 2xmsaa now use less gpu power. Means I can increase graphics and still hold steady 125 now.


----------



## shedokan

Anyone with NVIDIA GPU and 1ms LB monitor who's using it on win8? Just wondering if it works as good as in 7 and can be enabled only by using CRU as well?

Btw mark what happens again if I take off the power cable? Would I need to create the CRU reso again or even the first LB howto with infs?

Is it even possible to make the monitor totally "forget" even the first howto inf/reg?


----------



## Arc0s

I unplugged mine recently and all I had to do to get lb back on was go to the nvidia control panel and run the 3d set up wizard. No need to repeat the entire process.


----------



## shedokan

Have you enabled it with CRU before? Or with inf reg


----------



## Arc0s

First I was using the inf and cru, but then I saw toasty's post and decided to give it a try and it worked great.


----------



## alexp247365

I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, or that I've run into a limitation of Lightboost. Nvidia web-site mentions that only LB projectors can do portrait mode. If i use CRU with lightboost.bin while my monitor is in portrait, i get a blank screen. I've believe I've had success getting LB in portrait, but the tricky part is getting LB enabled in portrait sli-surround with three monitors

Trying to link 3 portrait LB into SLI surround makes the display driver crash.

Would having timings for 1080x1920 help this equation any?


----------



## writer21

Toasty I must say this is a big improvement over the reg and inf files. Now I can max out black ops 2 with more msaa and ambient occlusion and still maintain 125 fps. I wasn't able to even with oc 4.5 3570k cpu and Gtx 670. I've also been able to lower my gpu clock speed because of this. Also no more ctrl + T when starting up games which resulted in massive lag. Lightboost is more stable.

Everyone should at least try this program. Hopefully you guys experience the huge benefits I have.


----------



## tsunamipop

Hey guys. I don't know if you have seen it yet. but the newegg video for the Asus vg248qe has mention of the work you have done with zero motion blur. they tip toe around the topic as it is not officially supported but they say you should search for the forums if you want to see why this monitor has become so popular.


----------



## tsunamipop

what method should I use if I have already followed the original hack for my vg248qe? I'd like to use cru since it seems easier and more reliable


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsunamipop*
> 
> what method should I use if I have already followed the original hack for my vg248qe? I'd like to use cru since it seems easier and more reliable


Delete the inf file and keep the registry file. It works best like this. In fact it was the only way to get it to work for me when I updated nvidia drivers to beta. So install registry file then follow the directions for cru. It should work like that.


----------



## frallan123

So its been working flawless for me but today I tried out Need for Speed : Most Wanted, and lightboost gets disabled ingame, its working in every other game but not in this one. Any tips?

It works in windowed mode but not in fullscreen :s


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frallan123*
> 
> So its been working flawless for me but today I tried out Need for Speed : Most Wanted, and lightboost gets disabled ingame, its working in every other game but not in this one. Any tips?
> 
> It works in windowed mode but not in fullscreen :s


Some people have worked around this by using the ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility, and then disabling all other 1920x1080 modes (e.g. disabling EDID extension block, disabling other refresh rates for 1920x1080) and including only the LightBoost enabled resoutions.

ToastyX, maker of Custom Resolution Utility, posted some new instructions, which is ready for beta testing (still requires nVidia). No registry files, no INF files, no emitters needed!

*ToastyX - INSTRUCTIONS*

For NVIDIA users, LightBoost can be enabled entirely by using Custom Resolution Utility (CRU) without installing inf or reg files. Download and install this utility first.
___

The drop-down list should have an entry for each monitor. If there are more entries and you're not sure which ones are active, run reset-all.exe and reboot. That should leave you with an entry for each connected monitor.

If you don't have a 3D emitter, use the "Edit&#8230;" button at the very top to set the product ID to ACI27F8 for each monitor. This will make the driver think you have a VG278H with a built-in emitter so you can enable 3D mode. The model name doesn't matter and can be set to whatever you want.

Use the "Import&#8230;" button at the bottom to import this file: lightboost.bin
I've included the 120/110/100 Hz LightBoost resolutions. You can remove the ones you don't need. If you have multiple monitors, use the copy and paste buttons at the top to copy the resolutions to the other monitor entries.

Click OK to save the changes, then reboot.

In the NVIDIA control panel, open the "Set up stereoscopic 3D" page, then click the "Run Setup Wizard" button. If the button isn't there, uncheck "Enable stereoscopic 3D" and click the "Apply" button.

In the setup wizard, click the "Next" button, then click "Next" again. At this point, it should enable LightBoost, and if you don't have an emitter, the mouse cursor will be very sluggish and jerky. If you don't need to enable 3D, you can exit here. Otherwise, continue the wizard as usual.
__

Now LightBoost should be enabled and stay enabled as long as the monitor isn't unplugged. If there is a power outage, you will have to run the setup wizard again. If you update the video driver, you might have to go through the process again. I might make a program to simplify the process, but I need to figure out how to enable LightBoost directly in the monitor without having to run the setup wizard manually.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsunamipop*
> 
> Hey guys. I don't know if you have seen it yet. but the newegg video for the Asus vg248qe has mention of the work you have done with zero motion blur. they tip toe around the topic as it is not officially supported but they say you should search for the forums if you want to see why this monitor has become so popular.


Good catch!
One big goal of Blur Busters is to make manufacturers aware of the consumer demand; and make stroboscopic backlights hopefully an easy standard feature that's easy to turn on/off in future monitors. Easy enable, better 2D picture calibration defaults, etc.

1. Google "LightBoost".
.......LightBoost's motion blur elimination is now more popular than 3D Vision (original LightBoost purpose)
2. Check user reviews on VG248QUE on amazon.com.
.......LightBoost's motion blur elimination is now mentioned by more users than 3D Vision (original LightBoost purpose)

Proof that even the Little Man can begin to create a new industry trend, one little bit at a time!


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alexp247365*
> 
> I don't know if I'm doing something wrong, or that I've run into a limitation of Lightboost. Nvidia web-site mentions that only LB projectors can do portrait mode. If i use CRU with lightboost.bin while my monitor is in portrait, i get a blank screen. I've believe I've had success getting LB in portrait, but the tricky part is getting LB enabled in portrait sli-surround with three monitors
> 
> Trying to link 3 portrait LB into SLI surround makes the display driver crash.
> 
> Would having timings for 1080x1920 help this equation any?


CallSignVega should be able to produce a different lightboost.bin export that has this. I will inform ToastyX that he may have to do some tweaks.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PiERiT*
> 
> No red tint with this method. Neat.


Interesting; I'll reset to factory defaults and confirm that following the ToastyX method eliminates the reddish tint problem.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ranseed*
> 
> Hey mdrejhon I have a question about input lag that I'm wondering if you might have an answer to. For a game like quakelive where the fps cap is 125, is it better to cap refresh rate at 120hz or 125hz? Or just leave it at 144hz even though you only are getting 125 fps?


I think it really depends on your preferred VSYNC setting. If you have VSYNC ON, let it match [email protected] If you have VSYNC OFF, it's probably better to use 125fps because otherwise you'll get slowly-rolling tearing artifacts at 119/120/121fps. Alternatively, use Adaptive VSYNC (which can have less average input lag than VSYNC ON)

Regardless, make sure you use a method that allows you to disable the "3D Stereoscopic" checkbox; that appears to add input lag if enabled (and forcing you to use Control+T)


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Interesting; I'll reset to factory defaults and confirm that following the ToastyX method eliminates the reddish tint problem.


I still get the red tint.

Didn't follow ToastyX method to the letter, but did use CRU and no custom inf


----------



## shedokan

Mark the instructions of toastyx are for ppl who never enabled LB before? Otherwise I still see no point isn't it more simple to enter the values I had in the screenshot and reboot? Then LB is on lol.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> Mark the instructions of toastyx are for ppl who never enabled LB before? Otherwise I still see no point isn't it more simple to enter the values I had in the screenshot and reboot? Then LB is on lol.


This is the new (second) version of LightBoost-enable instructions that works regardless of whether or not you have enabled LB. It works on a factory out-of-the-box monitor. The chief difference is following the 3D Vision wizard and interrupting it halfway; this is the step that unlocks the LightBoost feature in the monitor.


----------



## mdrejhon

Check this out:
Quote:


> TFTCentral has tested LightBoost with their equipment and found
> LightBoost *outperforms all past scanning backlights they have ever tested*,
> including the old BENQ AMA-Z and Samsung MPA from 2006.
> 
> 
> 
> Check out TFTCentral's Motion Blur Reduction Backlights article!


BTW, Hammerforged, they used your LightBoost HOWTO video!


----------



## Lord Xeb

I think this is advertising.


----------



## hammerforged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Check this out:
> BTW, Hammerforged, they used your LightBoost HOWTO video!


WOOOO! I really like how quickly this is mod is growing. Ive been telling everyone I game with about it.

Maybe I need to make one with CRU now


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lord Xeb*
> 
> I think this is advertising.


Oh; TFTCentral actually approached me, since they were interested in testing it. I don't earn money from this article.

Their review is impartial and unbiased -- their review was already written when they asked me to proofread it (since it covered scanning backlight science, and I host a *Scanning Backlight FAQ*, and I used to *work in the home theater industry (designing equipment!)*; while I'm also an associate member of SID.org (Society for Information Display), so being a known authority on the topic, they approached me to verified the correctness of their article and gave them back input and corrections, mainly to scanning backlight science). I gave them access to the motion tests, and they apparently chose to also include that too (with my permission).

It is noteworthy comment that they actually used the worst LightBoost monitor to take PixPerAn photos on; the VG278HE is worse than the VG278H -- hazmatm tested the VG278H and VG278HE side by side; while my XL2411T is in turn better than VG278H in terms of crosstalk artifacts. I mentioned to them that ASUS VG248QE and XL2411T produces much better PixPerAn images. They also understandably pan on some of the LightBoost disadvantages; but came away more impressed than expected -- and rightfully so; they've tested many scanning backlights and came away underwhelmed. As this forum thread attests, many people agree that amongst the scanning backlight and other stroboscopic technologies, LightBoost has been one of the best invented.

nVidia led the way there, but never advertised its 2D motion blur elimination benefit which is actually more in demand than stereoscopic 3D at this stage. The demand just hasn't been properly tapped. Only now, that's slowly changing (especially VG248QE). *Googling "LightBoost" now returns more results relating to its zero motion blur benefits than for its original 3D Vision purpose*. Even customer reviews on Amazon's VG248QE page are starting to mention LightBoost blur benefit more often than LightBoost 3D benefit. NewEgg and ASUS just 



 in their YouTube. It became too irresistible for sites such as pcmonitors and TFTCentral NOT to cover this technology. More mainstream sites will follow suit later this year.

Also they essentially said a rough equivalent to *It's got worse color, it's not properly calibrated for 2D, it is darker, it doesn't completely eliminate overdrive artifacts, it is only available on TN panels, but that the blur elimination was very large*, TFTCentral beautifully covers those disadvantages in detail, and despite disadvantages, the lack of motion blur is apparently a very noteworthy for many people sensitive to motion blur -- and some sick of it (and finally found the Holy Grail in LightBoost) -- otherwise this thread wouldn't have reached over 70 pages long.

People post links all the time throughout these forums, as long as they don't earn money of it. But yes, guilty of posting a hyperlink -- perhaps I should have waited until somebody else more impartial posted the TFTCentral link -- that would have been more unbiased posting of a link. It's on-topic in this thread, anyway.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lord Xeb*
> 
> I think this is advertising.


(I don't know what exactly you mean since your statement is ambiguous in so many possible ways, so I'll assume you mean Mark's posts in general)

Call it what you will, it is a HUGE service to this community and every other community. Lightboost is real and what it provides is real, if you cared about other people you would do all you can to share it and I couldn't care less about ulterior motives, since the benefit is first and foremost for the community.

At first glance Mark's posts around the web look exactly like advertising, but you soon realise that what he is doing is valuable and I for one have come to fully appreciate it.

(from a member of the community who tried lightboost and discovered the goddarn Atlantis of competitive gaming monitors)


----------



## writer21

How much of a difference between the vg278he vs vg248qe in 2d lightboost. 278he which I have is very good in lightboost. Wondering because I might sell my HE version to get the smaller 24 version.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> How much of a difference between the vg278he vs vg248qe in 2d lightboost. 278he which I have is very good in lightboost. Wondering because I might sell my HE version to get the smaller 24 version.


LightBoost quality -- I have a VG278H (similar to HE) and XL2411T (similar to VG248QE). LightBoost quality is similiar on most LightBoost monitors; there's no difference in motion blur between the two except for differences in LCD artifacts. The BENQ's better but had a purple tint that needed adjustment. Some LightBoost monitors have a purple tint (the VG248QE has a worse LightBoost colors before calibration). The crosstalk varies quite a lot between them -- faint LightBoost artifacts mainly seen in PixPerAn and motion tests but usually not in games -- and the XL2411T / VG248QE is very noticeably better than the VG278HE in terms of the LightBoost artifacts (showing up as faint sharp trailing ghost double-image which you may have seen). Some users/reviews/sources (including myself) are claiming the ASUS has better color than the BENQ, while others are claiming less LightBoost artifacts on the BENQ, etc. But I've also heard of people doing stellar jobs of calibrating their BENQ with a colorimeter.

The calibration -- For properly calibrated LightBoost monitor, the differences do greatly diminish. If you haven't recalibrated your LightBoost monitor, getting a Spyder sensor or another colorimeter, can be the biggest upgrade your monitor has ever had. If color is the issue, keep the monitor and calibrate.

The size issue -- Legitimate concern. Then again, the 27" DPI down to 24" DPI can look better for a small desk since 27" is rather large and very subject to the TN viewing angle issue. I must admit the 27" is rather large and low density (Mind you, I'm spoiled by Mac Retina displays too); but I've kept it anyway because other members in the household like the larger size. I'd rather have a 27" LightBoost monitor than go back to my old 24" Samsung 245BW non-LightBoost monitor which I was using previously (I got it in 2007; one of the first 2ms TN's with near-zero input lag). I'm losing 1200p and getting 1080p; but gaining the zero motion blur capability.


----------



## tsunamipop

I took shots of 120hz nonlightboost, 144hz and 120 hz Lightboost. You can tell the difference between the Lighboost and nonlightboost tests in Pixperan. I did the nonlightboost videos at tempo 15. The lighboost was done at 30. Tell me if Im wrong but can't you tell which one is clearer. I know everyone has said that a video can't show the real results because it depends on the setup you are watching it from. But it looks pretty obvious to me. I even switch bacxk to 60 hz and watched the videos on youtube and could tell a difference. Am I crazy or no? Just want to do my part to show people the improvement in motion blur we all see since Im not able to participate as in depth as Mark and Vega









144 hz non LB 



120 hz non Lb 



120 LB


----------



## Ansive

Nice panning, did you do that by hand?

You can tell the difference because when you keep up with the text it is mostly stationary, so even 60Hz LCDs can view that.


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsunamipop*
> 
> I took shots of 120hz nonlightboost, 144hz and 120 hz Lightboost. You can tell the difference between the Lighboost and nonlightboost tests in Pixperan. I did the nonlightboost videos at tempo 15. The lighboost was done at 30. Tell me if Im wrong but can't you tell which one is clearer. I know everyone has said that a video can't show the real results because it depends on the setup you are watching it from. But it looks pretty obvious to me. I even switch bacxk to 60 hz and watched the videos on youtube and could tell a difference. Am I crazy or no? Just want to do my part to show people the improvement in motion blur we all see since Im not able to participate as in depth as Mark and Vega
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 144 hz non LB
> 
> 
> 
> 120 hz non Lb
> 
> 
> 
> 120 LB


Great videos! You can definitely see the difference.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> LightBoost quality -- I have a VG278H (similar to HE) and XL2411T (similar to VG248QE). LightBoost quality is similiar on most LightBoost monitors; there's no difference in motion blur between the two except for differences in LCD artifacts. The BENQ's better but had a purple tint that needed adjustment. Some LightBoost monitors have a purple tint (the VG248QE has a worse LightBoost colors before calibration). The crosstalk varies quite a lot between them -- faint LightBoost artifacts mainly seen in PixPerAn and motion tests but usually not in games -- and the XL2411T / VG248QE is very noticeably better than the VG278HE in terms of the LightBoost artifacts (showing up as faint sharp trailing ghost double-image which you may have seen). Some users/reviews/sources (including myself) are claiming the ASUS has better color than the BENQ, while others are claiming less LightBoost artifacts on the BENQ, etc. But I've also heard of people doing stellar jobs of calibrating their BENQ with a colorimeter.
> 
> The calibration -- For properly calibrated LightBoost monitor, the differences do greatly diminish. If you haven't recalibrated your LightBoost monitor, getting a Spyder sensor or another colorimeter, can be the biggest upgrade your monitor has ever had. If color is the issue, keep the monitor and calibrate.
> 
> The size issue -- Legitimate concern. Then again, the 27" DPI down to 24" DPI can look better for a small desk since 27" is rather large and very subject to the TN viewing angle issue. I must admit the 27" is rather large and low density (Mind you, I'm spoiled by Mac Retina displays too); but I've kept it anyway because other members in the household like the larger size. I'd rather have a 27" LightBoost monitor than go back to my old 24" Samsung 245BW non-LightBoost monitor which I was using previously (I got it in 2007; one of the first 2ms TN's with near-zero input lag). I'm losing 1200p and getting 1080p; but gaining the zero motion blur capability.


How about compared to the XL2420TX? Is the VG248QE better?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsunamipop*
> 
> I took shots of 120hz nonlightboost, 144hz and 120 hz Lightboost. You can tell the difference between the Lighboost and nonlightboost tests in Pixperan. I did the nonlightboost videos at tempo 15. The lighboost was done at 30. Tell me if Im wrong but can't you tell which one is clearer. I know everyone has said that a video can't show the real results because it depends on the setup you are watching it from. But it looks pretty obvious to me. I even switch bacxk to 60 hz and watched the videos on youtube and could tell a difference. Am I crazy or no? Just want to do my part to show people the improvement in motion blur we all see since Im not able to participate as in depth as Mark and Vega
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 144 hz non LB
> 
> 
> 
> 120 hz non Lb
> 
> 
> 
> 120 LB


Good work capturing the differences in video; this is almost the correct method. The proper way is to do it photographically rather than as video, because you can't easily control shutter speed in a video camera, but you can in a photographic camera (Ideally, you want an electronically controlled moving camera to track moving objects perfectly, though!). Your YouTube videos are valid demonstrations; the motion blur improvements of LightBoost is so dramatic that it's revealed even in a shaky manually-driven pursuit camera.

You did more-or-less correct technique (just need to control the scientific variables like forcing your video camera to use a shutter speed of least a 1/60sec shutter exposure per frame); You did a manual equivalent of an automated motion-blur-measurement "pursuit camera"; however, I have have developed a cheap blogger-friendly accurate pursuit camera technique (+/-1 pixel tracking accuracy) to create the images in my LCD Motion Artirfacts:
Quote:


> The Blur Busters has created LCD Motion Artifacts 101, showing accurate photography
> of *ghosting, coronas, motion blur, and PWM artifacts*!
> 
> . .
> 
> . .
> 
> We are the world's first blog to utilize a pursuit camera for capturing motion artifacts!
> See LCD Motion Artifacts 101!


Pursuit camera are used by display manufacturers for testing motion blur (e.g. MotionMaster, and other MPRT pursuit cameras). This is simply a camera that follows on-screen motion. These expensive cameras are extremely accurate at measuring motion blur and other artifacts, since they simulate the eye tracking motion of moving eyes.

Blur Busters has developed an inexpensive pursuit camera method which operates in conjunction with the upcoming Blur Busters Motion Tests, and also makes possible accurate photography of common LCD motion blur artifacts. Keep tuned for the announcement of the technique...

Pursuit camera is the correct & proper technique for accurate camera measurement of human-eye perceived motion blur; and the co-relation is already discussed in several scientific papers:

http://oa.upm.es/4239/1/INVE_MEM_2008_59190.pdf
.....(term "pursuit camera method" in section 2)
http://www.sidmembers.org/idonline/article.cfm?year=2007&issue=01&file=art7
.....("smooth-pursuit camera system")
http://research.nokia.com/files/bergquist_johan_seminar_sidtw_071219.pdf
.....(slide 43, "linearly moving" camera)

Essentially, pursuit cameras (chase camera) is the measuring-equipment equivalent to a moving eyeball tracking a moving on-screen object. This is the proper technique for measuring motion blur; it just hasn't been accessible to bloggers (in a scientifically accurate method) until recently.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ansive*
> 
> Nice panning, did you do that by hand?
> You can tell the difference because when you keep up with the text it is mostly stationary, so even 60Hz LCDs can view that.


*60 Hz LCD's become completely blurred in pursuit camera tests, for shutter speeds matching refresh length*. Confirmed.
Also read my previous post about professional ($10,000+) motion blur measurement pursuit cameras.

That's because the camera is moving while the 60 Hz frames are static. So the static refreshes are blurred across the camera view.
Accurate pursuit camera (moving +/-1 pixels speed accuracy with the onscreen object) has the same amount of motion blur as seen by human eye.
Therefore you got approximately 16 pixels width of motion blur in your photograph for moving objects moving at 16 pixels per second, for a camera operating at 1/60sec exposure.

Video cameras aren't exactly the proper method because video cameras don't always use 1/60sec shutter speed in capturing frames; you need to control the shutter speed in order to produce an accurate pursuit camera test. The WYSIWYG motion blur accuracy (photographed motion blur equivalence to human perceived motion blur) becomes amazingly accurate if you can stack multiple refreshes to ~1/15sec or ~1/30sec. It is possible for video cameras with fast shutter speeds (e.g. 1/400sec) can 'stroboscopically' eliminate motion blur in pursuit camera tests.

So for proper WYSIWYG pursuit camera, you need a shutter speed matching or exceeding the length of a refresh. For improved accuracy in pursuit camera photography, a longer shutter speed capturing a reasonable amount of multiple refreshes in a pursuit camera photograph, so I've standardized on a 1/30sec shutter speed (as the fastest speed I use) for pursuit camera photography for this reason; the fact that impulse-driven images (e.g. CRT, LightBoost) remain sharp despite long camera exposure speeds, is a very accurate representation of what was seen by the human eye in tracking the moving object. Four refreshes at 120Hz gets captured in one photograph. It quite accurately captures the motion blur of sample-and-hold, pixel-persistence, ghosting, coronas, and whatever motion-clarity-affecting factors occur; photographically capturing an accurate equivalent of what the human eye saw.

Follow the proper pursuit camera usage of camera exposure setting capturing at least one full refresh cycle; pursuit camera tests for 60Hz show that small text blur to unreadability beyond approximately a tempo of 8 in all test patterns. The readability of the pixperan readability test in a properly-configured pursuit camera corresponds pretty well to readability by human eye. Not even the world's most accurate pursuit camera (configured to expose at least a full refresh cycle) can capture a photograph of sharp text out of a 60Hz sample-and-hold LCD with non-stroboscopic backlight, at Tempo 8 (text scrolling at 8 pixels step per frame, with the camera moving along with it, while capturing at a slow exposure speed) and beyond while running a chase camera sideways.

A pursuit camera (even at slow 1/15sec camera exposure; capturing multiple refreshes), perfectly tracking LightBoost scrolling text, keeps the text razor-sharp, without any motion blurring caused by long shutter speeds. You don't get that with a 60 Hz LCD.

In the near future, I am going to post new pursuit camera photos (not video) of 60Hz versus 120Hz versus 120Hz LightBoost (+/- 1pixel pursuit camera tracking accuracy, 1/20sec exposure for the 60Hz capture, and 1/30sec camera exposure for 120Hz capture). The 120Hz LightBoost pursuit camera photo is razor sharp (individual pixels perfectly resolvable with zero motion blur, despite using a slow 1/30sec shutter speed on while tracking the camera accurately and fast on a 960 pixels/second moving on-screen object), motion blur (or lack thereof) being WYSIWYG as seen by human eye.


----------



## tsunamipop

I was just curious if these videos could translate. Even though I don't have thousands of dollars worth of equipment, proof is in the pudding for sure. It is such a big improvement in motion blur reduction that specialty equipment isn't needed to prove the point, except to get the manufacturer's onboard and you guys have done that exceptionally well. maybe these crude examples will help the nonbelievers who don't buy into all the expert talk. And for anyone who can't tell if its working. the pixperan test is night and day.


----------



## hamzatm

XL2411T (aka VG248QE) was far, far clearer than my VG278HE. I found a very noticeable difference in motion clarity.

The XL2420T is not as good either but I haven't tested that personally.


----------



## hamzatm

no clue how I managed to double post


----------



## linkin93

Sweet, frame sequential works a treat on my S23A750D, but it keeps going into 2D mode when I alt tab out of games


----------



## frallan123

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Some people have worked around this by using the ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility, and then disabling all other 1920x1080 modes (e.g. disabling EDID extension block, disabling other refresh rates for 1920x1080) and including only the LightBoost enabled resoutions.
> 
> ToastyX, maker of Custom Resolution Utility, posted some new instructions, which is ready for beta testing (still requires nVidia). No registry files, no INF files, no emitters needed!
> 
> *ToastyX - INSTRUCTIONS*
> 
> For NVIDIA users, LightBoost can be enabled entirely by using Custom Resolution Utility (CRU) without installing inf or reg files. Download and install this utility first.
> ___
> 
> The drop-down list should have an entry for each monitor. If there are more entries and you're not sure which ones are active, run reset-all.exe and reboot. That should leave you with an entry for each connected monitor.
> 
> If you don't have a 3D emitter, use the "Edit&#8230;" button at the very top to set the product ID to ACI27F8 for each monitor. This will make the driver think you have a VG278H with a built-in emitter so you can enable 3D mode. The model name doesn't matter and can be set to whatever you want.
> 
> Use the "Import&#8230;" button at the bottom to import this file: lightboost.bin
> I've included the 120/110/100 Hz LightBoost resolutions. You can remove the ones you don't need. If you have multiple monitors, use the copy and paste buttons at the top to copy the resolutions to the other monitor entries.
> 
> Click OK to save the changes, then reboot.
> 
> In the NVIDIA control panel, open the "Set up stereoscopic 3D" page, then click the "Run Setup Wizard" button. If the button isn't there, uncheck "Enable stereoscopic 3D" and click the "Apply" button.
> 
> In the setup wizard, click the "Next" button, then click "Next" again. At this point, it should enable LightBoost, and if you don't have an emitter, the mouse cursor will be very sluggish and jerky. If you don't need to enable 3D, you can exit here. Otherwise, continue the wizard as usual.
> __
> 
> Now LightBoost should be enabled and stay enabled as long as the monitor isn't unplugged. If there is a power outage, you will have to run the setup wizard again. If you update the video driver, you might have to go through the process again. I might make a program to simplify the process, but I need to figure out how to enable LightBoost directly in the monitor without having to run the setup wizard manually.


I used the reg + inf from the start but I've followed this guide but it still disables in game on Need for Speed (its the only game where it does disable).

How do I reset everything so I can only use the CRU method?


----------



## tsunamipop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ansive*
> 
> Nice panning, did you do that by hand?
> 
> You can tell the difference because when you keep up with the text it is mostly stationary, so even 60Hz LCDs can view that.


Yes, by hand. I did my best, but I think I was able to capture what I was goin for!


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsunamipop*
> 
> Yes, by hand. I did my best, but I think I was able to capture what I was goin for!


It's important to note that the differences only truly reveal itself if if the video camera is using a sufficiently slow shutter speed (for each video frame) of at least the same length as one refresh cycle. *This definitely happened for your YouTube videos*; you should add one more pursuit camera test for the 60 Hz situation; the difference between 60Hz and 120Hz should reveal itself if your camera shutter is 1/60sec or slower. It would be lovely if videos embedded shutter speed data; since that helps.

(As we all love to know; moving a digital camera normally blurs badly at slow shutter speed; so having sharp image in a moving cameras that's running a slow shutter speeds -- is irreconcilable proof of motion blur elimination occuring.)


----------



## error-id10t

I was giving this a go earlier but failed on my XL2410T monitor so figured I ask if I did something wrong or it just doesn't work.

All the steps go through fine, updating the registry entry and changing the monitor INF file, after reboot etc etc I can change to 3D. However, this is where the problem starts - I never get 3D clocks from cards afterwards and of course it's jerky as hell. Even when I saw low 3D clocks briefly the cards were not utilised (this being the likely cause the clocks never ramped up).

Since removing this the clocks are back to normal so all I can assume is that it doesn't work on my monitor?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> I was giving this a go earlier but failed on my XL2410T monitor so figured I ask if I did something wrong or it just doesn't work.
> 
> All the steps go through fine, updating the registry entry and changing the monitor INF file, after reboot etc etc I can change to 3D. However, this is where the problem starts - I never get 3D clocks from cards afterwards and of course it's jerky as hell. Even when I saw low 3D clocks briefly the cards were not utilised (this being the likely cause the clocks never ramped up).
> 
> Since removing this the clocks are back to normal so all I can assume is that it doesn't work on my monitor?


AFAIK, the XL2410T is a 3D Vision 1 monitor and does not support Lightboost, am I right?


----------



## Madman340

This probably can't be done if I'm just using the monitor for my 360, right? Since it appears the functionality is from the strobe effect, how could I hard-wire it to produce the same effect?

Also, does the strobe effect affect vision after a long time, or perhaps reduce the lifespan of the display?

I did a quick search of this thread regarding consoles, but it doesn't look like it has come up.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> AFAIK, the XL2410T is a 3D Vision 1 monitor and does not support Lightboost, am I right?


yep


----------



## tsunamipop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsunamipop*
> 
> I took shots of 120hz nonlightboost, 144hz and 120 hz Lightboost. You can tell the difference between the Lighboost and nonlightboost tests in Pixperan. I did the nonlightboost videos at tempo 15. The lighboost was done at 30. Tell me if Im wrong but can't you tell which one is clearer. I know everyone has said that a video can't show the real results because it depends on the setup you are watching it from. But it looks pretty obvious to me. I even switch bacxk to 60 hz and watched the videos on youtube and could tell a difference. Am I crazy or no? Just want to do my part to show people the improvement in motion blur we all see since Im not able to participate as in depth as Mark and Vega
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 144 hz non LB
> 
> 
> 
> 120 hz non Lb
> 
> 
> 
> 120 LB


Here is a shot of the 60hz goin at 15 in pixperan.


----------



## error-id10t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> AFAIK, the XL2410T is a 3D Vision 1 monitor and does not support Lightboost, am I right?


Yes AFAIK that's right but according to some they got it to work so figured I ask either way. I've now tried both methods (the 2nd method few pages back) and again the same problem, once it starts trying 3D, the clocks just go down as the cards are not utilised. I don't use 3D normally so have no idea if that's "normal" but I doubt it.

Will keep an eye out and see if any other 2410 owners have feedback.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> Yes AFAIK that's right but according to some they got it to work so figured I ask either way. I've now tried both methods (the 2nd method few pages back) and again the same problem, once it starts trying 3D, the clocks just go down as the cards are not utilised. I don't use 3D normally so have no idea if that's "normal" but I doubt it.
> 
> Will keep an eye out and see if any other 2410 owners have feedback.


Our monitors don't have light boost in them, it isn't software so you can't "enable" it. You need a new monitor for it.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsunamipop*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a shot of the 60hz goin at 15 in pixperan.


Cool; thanks for doing this. I should note that for a more apples-to-apples comparision in motion blur trail measurements (for motion blur for same speed motion), 60 Hz needs to have twice the tempo of 120 Hz to keep the same pixels per second motion. PixPerAn was made back in year 2001, and it wasn't designed to maintain the same relative motion speed independently of the refresh rate -- so the same tempo setting at double refresh rate, goes at double speed.


----------



## qwkslvr

Finally got this working on my VG278 and holy *****! It's unbelievable! Definitely worth it coming from 1600p.


----------



## ahnafakeef

I've gone through the Samsung HowTo. It says that a game needs to run at a constant 120FPS to take advantage of this feature. Is this true? Or am I missing something here?

maintaining constant 60FPS on a 1080p monitor is near impossible for most systems. and 120 is a daydream.

so would this benefit systems with 120Hz monitors running at 50-60FPS in game?

Thanks!


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> I've gone through the Samsung HowTo. It says that a game needs to run at a constant 120FPS to take advantage of this feature. Is this true? Or am I missing something here?
> 
> maintaining constant 60FPS on a 1080p monitor is near impossible for most systems. and 120 is a daydream.
> 
> so would this benefit systems with 120Hz monitors running at 50-60FPS in game?
> 
> Thanks!


No it won't. It needs 100+ fps at 100Hz or 120+ fps at 120Hz.


----------



## shedokan

Is this really needed? for a new monitor out of the box that never had LB enabled

If you don't have a 3D emitter, use the "Edit&#8230;" button at the very top to set the product ID to ACI27F8 for each monitor. This will make the driver think you have a VG278H with a built-in emitter so you can enable 3D mode. The model name doesn't matter and can be set to whatever you want. ?

And these 2 arent needed if you had LB enabled before right and you done a fresh OS install

In the NVIDIA control panel, open the "Set up stereoscopic 3D" page, then click the "Run Setup Wizard" button. If the button isn't there, uncheck "Enable stereoscopic 3D" and click the "Apply" button.

In the setup wizard, click the "Next" button, then click "Next" again. At this point, it should enable LightBoost, and if you don't have an emitter, the mouse cursor will be very sluggish and jerky. If you don't need to enable 3D, you can exit here. Otherwise, continue the wizard as usual.

?


----------



## linkin93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> I've gone through the Samsung HowTo. It says that a game needs to run at a constant 120FPS to take advantage of this feature. Is this true? Or am I missing something here?
> 
> maintaining constant 60FPS on a 1080p monitor is near impossible for most systems. and 120 is a daydream.
> 
> so would this benefit systems with 120Hz monitors running at 50-60FPS in game?
> 
> Thanks!


It looks better at 100+FPS at 120hz, but it's necessary per se. I'd say minimum 60 frames otherwise it looks all juddery.


----------



## mxyz

Will this apply to Skyrim running with vsync at 60fps? I know the video shows skyrim running at 120fps but that supposedly will break physics in the game as well as all game time-based events.


----------



## shedokan

Had to reposition my system in other room so taking the power cable off removed LB as well, I'm on 144Hz non LB now after using LB for "quite" long, Wow... and thinking I had a 60Hz T240 Samsung before.. It looks so bad compare to LB thats its unbelievable, don't even care about gaming. just browsing text gives me a headache already cause you're so used to zero motion blur







gonna enable LB back right now!


----------



## Razor 116

What's the compatibility with Lightboost? I'm looking to get an old Nvidia card just to enable Lightboost then switch to my 7970.


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mxyz*
> 
> Will this apply to Skyrim running with vsync at 60fps? I know the video shows skyrim running at 120fps but that supposedly will break physics in the game as well as all game time-based events.


If you use lightboost 120hz and run at only 60 you will suffer ghosting or double image. Best to get as close to 120fps as possible in lightboost 120hz. It's the reason why someone should find a way to make 60fps at 120hz lightboost work without double image.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahnafakeef*
> 
> I've gone through the Samsung HowTo. It says that a game needs to run at a constant 120FPS to take advantage of this feature. Is this true? Or am I missing something here?
> maintaining constant 60FPS on a 1080p monitor is near impossible for most systems. and 120 is a daydream.
> so would this benefit systems with 120Hz monitors running at 50-60FPS in game?


You need fps=Hz for maximum LightBoost benefits.

Otherwise, the repeated refreshes ends up contributing to sample-and-hold motion blur (double image effects, stutters, increased motion blur, etc). The stroboscopic backlight is enabled only at certain refresh rates (e.g. 100 Hz or 120 Hz), and you need fps=Hz for best motion on stroboscopic displays (CRT, LightBoost). LightBoost and other stroboscopic backlights doesn't look awful at just 60fps, just that most benefits disappear if your strobes aren't synchronized with framerate (which requires frame rate equalling refresh rate).

So you definitely do need 120fps @ 120Hz -- preferably 100fps
Which you can easily do on most systems with a just a high-500 or 600 series GTX if you just run older games (Source engine games). However, to get even just 100fps in games like Crysis 3, you need a Geforce Titan to pull that off. Games like Quake Live, Counterstrike and Team Fortress 2 have no problem attaining 120fps; those games are still fairly popular.

P.S. New Samsung tip. Better colors during stroboscopic mode; change Samsung OSD setting "Magic Angle" to "Group View"


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> If you use lightboost 120hz and run at only 60 you will suffer ghosting or double image. Best to get as close to 120fps as possible in lightboost 120hz. It's the reason why someone should find a way to make 60fps at 120hz lightboost work without double image.


This can be accomplished by *software-based black frame insertion*, there's a special modification to MAME emulator that allows the 60Hz LightBoost effect by blacking-out every other refresh:
www.blurbusters.com/mame

Theoretically, it can be implemented as a system-wide *software-based black frame insertion driver*, that can produce the complete LightBoost effect at 60fps (with the attendant 60Hz flicker and further reduced brightness, as a compromise). This works around the hardware LightBoost limitation of being restricted to 100-120Hz.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qwkslvr*
> 
> Finally got this working on my VG278 and holy *****! It's unbelievable! Definitely worth it coming from 1600p.


Welcome to the LightBoost experience.
I also did a resolution downgrade (from 1200p) to get the motion clarity upgrade.


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> This can be accomplished by *software-based black frame insertion*, there's a special modification to MAME emulator that allows the 60Hz LightBoost effect by blacking-out every other refresh:
> www.blurbusters.com/mame
> 
> Theoretically, it can be implemented as a system-wide *software-based black frame insertion driver*, that can produce the complete LightBoost effect at 60fps (with the attendant 60Hz flicker and further reduced brightness, as a compromise). This works around the hardware LightBoost limitation of being restricted to 100-120Hz.


So are there any plans to do this in the near future for games like BF3?


----------



## Rage19420

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> You need fps=Hz for maximum LightBoost benefits.
> 
> Otherwise, the repeated refreshes ends up contributing to sample-and-hold motion blur (double image effects, stutters, increased motion blur, etc). The stroboscopic backlight is enabled only at certain refresh rates (e.g. 100 Hz or 120 Hz), and you need fps=Hz for best motion on stroboscopic displays (CRT, LightBoost). LightBoost and other stroboscopic backlights doesn't look awful at just 60fps, just that most benefits disappear if your strobes aren't synchronized with framerate (which requires frame rate equalling refresh rate).
> 
> So you definitely do need 120fps @ 120Hz -- preferably 100fps
> Which you can easily do on most systems with a just a high-500 or 600 series GTX if you just run older games (Source engine games). However, to get even just 100fps in games like Crysis 3, you need a Geforce Titan to pull that off. Games like Quake Live, Counterstrike and Team Fortress 2 have no problem attaining 120fps; those games are still fairly popular.
> 
> P.S. New Samsung tip. Better colors during stroboscopic mode; change Samsung OSD setting "Magic Angle" to "Group View"


This is exactly what I was curious and inquiring about. I'm about to pull the trigger on a pair of 670's to try and reach that 120fps-120hz goal.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rage19420*
> 
> This is exactly what I was curious and inquiring about. I'm about to pull the trigger on a pair of 670's to try and reach that 120fps-120hz goal.


Couldn't you get a single Titan for almost the same price as dual 670's?
You'll get smoother 120fps.


----------



## circeseye

i have a 72in 1080p 120htz mitsubishi dlp tv. will this work on it??
i dont know about getting over 100fps but if im figuring right the tv when in 3d mode does 60fps per eye. cause the graphics says its only a 60htz max. unless when i get a nvidea card it will say something else.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *circeseye*
> 
> i have a 72in 1080p 120htz mitsubishi dlp tv. will this work on it??
> i dont know about getting over 100fps but if im figuring right the tv when in 3d mode does 60fps per eye. cause the graphics says its only a 60htz max. unless when i get a nvidea card it will say something else.


No, you do not have LightBoost. It only applies to LCD monitors that nVidia has licensed LightBoost™ to.

However, if your DLP HDTV is a frame-sequential active 3D TV that uses shutter glasses, you may want to check out the *HDTV Refresh Rate Overclocking HOWTO*, for inputting 120 Hz 2D into your HDTV. This is different from the LightBoost HOWTO, though.


----------



## mdrejhon

Appears LightBoost is getting small bit of *Reddit* buzz; you might want to check it out and upvote that.

Link:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/1b45u8/nvidia_lightboost_tweak_with_certain_120hz/


----------



## Rage19420

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Couldn't you get a single Titan for almost the same price as dual 670's?
> You'll get smoother 120fps.


I have a deal lined up for a pair of used 670's for $500. New would be anywhere from $650-$750 for a pair.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rage19420*
> 
> I have a deal lined up for a pair of used 670's for $500. New would be anywhere from $650-$750 for a pair.


Gotcha, that's a no-brainer. Good price. Some of the higher end GTX 670's cost over $400, which would throw a pair close to a price of a single Titan.


----------



## Rage19420

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Gotcha, that's a no-brainer. Good price. Some of the higher end GTX 670's cost over $400, which would throw a pair close to a price of a single Titan.


Agreed!


----------



## l88bastar

Im running one of those Asus 24" glossy screens that vega sells combined with a titan gtx and itis amazing. After dialing in the colors I like it better than my sony fw900 and my catleap 2b! This is exactly what i have been waiting years for! Thank you Mark your hard work is greatly appreciated.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l88bastar*
> 
> Im running one of those Asus 24" glossy screens that vega sells combined with a titan gtx and itis amazing. After dialing in the colors I like it better than my sony fw900 and my catleap 2b! This is exactly what i have been waiting years for! Thank you Mark your hard work is greatly appreciated.


That's a stunning testimonial; one of the better ones I've seen lately.
Mind if you tell me which colorimeter you used to dial in the colors?
I've been shopping for a colorimeter to join the Blur Busters equipment suite.


----------



## l88bastar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> That's a stunning testimonial; one of the better ones I've seen lately.
> Mind if you tell me which colorimeter you used to dial in the colors?
> I've been shopping for a colorimeter to join the Blur Busters equipment suite.


I just used the settings vega posted in his build thread on the hard forum and colors are very, very good. The red tint is all but eliminated with Vegas settings! Now that you have me hooked on 2D lightboost I am building a similar 3x1 portrait setup same as vega.....the other two displays are already in the mail and once I get a spare Titan or two I will invest in a colorimeter to do it up right.

My Overlord OC (catleap 2b) does 130hz and looks great with its IPS IQ, but as you know its still has crap motion blur despite its refresh rate. My Fw900 does perfect motion with perfect colors but CRTs produce a soft fuzzy image compared against LCD displays. The lightboost asus is a combination of the best of both worlds you get the sharp image of the LCD combined with 95% of the motion clarity of a CRT, which equals complete WIN! I am in awe at the clarity of motion (im rocking 10% LB) and my eyes do not fatigue anymore because the smooth motion is much more relaxing compared against the constant image smear that I got from the Catleap.

Anybody that downs these lightboost displays without trying them is ignorant. I should know, I was one of the haters, one of the scoffers, but now I am a believer! My FW900 is back in the closet and my Overlord OC is in the trash!


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> You need fps=Hz for maximum LightBoost benefits.
> 
> Otherwise, the repeated refreshes ends up contributing to sample-and-hold motion blur (double image effects, stutters, increased motion blur, etc). The stroboscopic backlight is enabled only at certain refresh rates (e.g. 100 Hz or 120 Hz), and you need fps=Hz for best motion on stroboscopic displays (CRT, LightBoost). LightBoost and other stroboscopic backlights doesn't look awful at just 60fps, just that most benefits disappear if your strobes aren't synchronized with framerate (which requires frame rate equalling refresh rate).
> 
> So you definitely do need 120fps @ 120Hz -- preferably 100fps
> Which you can easily do on most systems with a just a high-500 or 600 series GTX if you just run older games (Source engine games). However, to get even just 100fps in games like Crysis 3, you need a Geforce Titan to pull that off. Games like Quake Live, Counterstrike and Team Fortress 2 have no problem attaining 120fps; those games are still fairly popular.
> 
> P.S. New Samsung tip. Better colors during stroboscopic mode; change Samsung OSD setting "Magic Angle" to "Group View"


If, let's say, I can only reach 110Hz for a particular game then would it be better to use LB with 100Hz refresh rate or should I stick to 120Hz? Simply put, when do I need to switch to 100Hz when using this hack?

Off topic: I suggest you use multi-quoting in replying to multiple posts, it's the correct way in these forums


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> *Vega says better than Sony FW900 CRT for this?*
> Wow!


I don't see how it could be better. I just ran that test myself, on my CRT, and it's completely clear and smooth, with no motion blur. I have to believe an FW900 can do the same thing, and you can't get better than 100 percent efficiency.


----------



## l88bastar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> I don't see how it could be better. I just ran that test myself, on my CRT, and it's completely clear and smooth, with no motion blur. I have to believe an FW900 can do the same thing, and you can't get better than 100 percent efficiency.


Vega is saying that the LCD crispness combined with CRT like blur free smoothness puts the lightboost 2D display over an FW900. I have an FW900, Overlord OC (Catleap 2B) & an Asus VG248QE and this has been my observation.

*PRO / CON*

FW900 = CRT blur free smoothness + perfect color / CRT "fuzzy" picture
Overlord OC = LCD crispness + high resolution, refresh rate / Motion is still a blurry mess
Lightboost 2D = LCD crispness + 95% CRT like blur free smoothness / Colors & brightness get sacrificed

Now throw three of those ligthboost 2d panels next to each other in portrait mode and you have yourself a 3240x1920 high resolution, blur free mega gaming display party! Anybody that downs these lightboost displays without trying them is ignorant. I should know, I was one of the haters, one of the scoffers, but now I am a believer! My FW900 is back in the closet and my Overlord OC is in the trash!


----------



## jsc1973

Well, I'm glad it's working so great for you. Personally, what you call "LCD crispness" has always given me a headache if I look at it too long, which is why I still use a CRT for everyday use.

LCD technology improves all of the time, and I'm not surprised that they're finally figuring out ways to eliminate motion blur on that technology.


----------



## epik

So is this really legit? I'm sick of being let down every time people claim that LCDs have finally matched CRTs.

I can't stand anything less than perfect 120hz or 150hz CRT refresh rates. It matters enough to me that I quite gaming altogether when companies stopped supporting the drivers for the FW900 and I couldn't get it working consistently.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epik*
> 
> So is this really legit? I'm sick of being let down every time people claim that LCDs have finally matched CRTs.
> 
> I can't stand anything less than perfect 120hz or 150hz CRT refresh rates. It matters enough to me that I quite gaming altogether when companies stopped supporting the drivers for the FW900 and I couldn't get it working consistently.


As someone who as owned four FW900's and now 3x LB setup, it's legit.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epik*
> 
> So is this really legit? I'm sick of being let down every time people claim that LCDs have finally matched CRTs.
> I can't stand anything less than perfect 120hz or 150hz CRT refresh rates. It matters enough to me that I quite gaming altogether when companies stopped supporting the drivers for the FW900 and I couldn't get it working consistently.


Look at the media coverage and decide for yourself.
Go check the amazon.com reviews for the VG248QE monitor, some of them even mention the LightBoost tweak as a buying consideration.

To temper your expectations though;
-- CRT quality is in specific to the lack of motion blur
-- LightBoost 2D is something not officially advertised for nVidia.
-- You still have the lower color quality of TN LCD and the LightBoost picture is mis-calibrated so you need to readjust your colors to get the color quality back.
-- It's a bit hacky to enable if you don't have the shutterglasses emitter, though there's now some new ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility instructions that make it easier. (NOTE: It happens ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility makes it easier to re-enable high-refresh rates on Sony FW900 to work properly on newer Windows systems; in case you still have your FW900).

LightBoost is not for everyone; especially if you're sensitive to having CRT-perfect color/blacks.
However, if you are extremely sensitive to motion blur and have always hated it even on regular 120 Hz LCD's, this is finally the LCD "holy grail" some people was waiting for. Especially if you tweak it downwards to a LightBoost setting of 50% or less.

There's a large number of rave reviews throughout several forum threads, including HardForum, overclock.net and many others.


----------



## alextheawesome

Bought a VG248QE yesterday. I don't have any Nvidia cards, so Lightboost will have to wait. But hey, 144Hz is still an improvement from a crappy 60Hz panel, I would think. Plus, I'm hopeful that somebody will figure out how to execute Lightboost outside an Nvidia environment. We'll see.


----------



## daman246

cool, will try soon


----------



## littledonny

I just used the new CRU lightboost hack to enable 2D lightboost on both of my monitors. But now, when I want to launch a game in Stereoscopic 3D mode, I get an error message stating something about trying to launch 3D Vision in an unsupported resolution. I also tried the .reg file before the CRU fix, but the .reg only worked for my main display. I have not reset the reg back. Does this have something to do with that? Perhaps the windowed mode setting to 0x000005?


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *littledonny*
> 
> I just used the new CRU lightboost hack to enable 2D lightboost on both of my monitors. But now, when I want to launch a game in Stereoscopic 3D mode, I get an error message stating something about trying to launch 3D Vision in an unsupported resolution. I also tried the .reg file before the CRU fix, but the .reg only worked for my main display. I have not reset the reg back. Does this have something to do with that? Perhaps the windowed mode setting to 0x000005?


Hmm I'm not sure those resolutions have been tested in 3D mode, see what others have to say though.


----------



## two4teezee

I had been looking for a monitor to replace my aging Samsung P2770HD. Until I saw this thread I was looking for a 27-30" IPS panel, potentially 1600p. However after looking into this, I decided to try it and I bought the newly released BenQ XL2720T. These are my impressions after one evening with the monitor and Lightboost enabled in 2D. If you're interested about my thoughts on the monitor itself, I'll post about that in the respective thread.

Before I start: the machine I am using this monitor with is used for recreational purposes. I do very little "work" on it other than the occasional wordsmithing, image editing, and web browsing. I mostly game on this system.

I had calibrated the monitor without Lightboost at first since I thought the factory calibration was highly suspect. I always prefer to do my calibration settings in the nVidia panel so I did that (sidenote: would be nice if we could create multiple color calibration profiles in nVidia control panel!). I followed the instructions provided in the OP to enable Lightboost without many issues. I couldn't install the driver by right-clicking so I had to browse to it during the installation process. Also after the registry hack I had to reboot twice. Finally I was able to operate with Lightboost in 2D.

I thought the monitor was too bright without Lightboost, so when Lightboost came on and it was dimmer I actually liked it. However, I immediately noticed that my calibration was off so I had to scrap the work I had done. There was a slight case of the "crimson tint" so I tuned the monitor OSD contrast setting (~60) and Lightboost setting (~50%) first, then in the nVidia control panel color calibration settings the red channel first, then tuning all color channels. If you're interested in my color calibration settings I can provide those values as well.

Anyway once I got the colors to a temperature I liked, and the brightness was just right for me, I started doing things like wiggling the mouse around and moving windows across my screen. I could tell a difference already. Then I fired up Dota 2.

One word: amazing.

It's so smooth for a LED it's almost weird. I have just never experienced anything like it and CRTs are a distant memory to me - to be honest I have no strong connection to CRTs. It's simply the smoothest gaming experience I've ever had. I am very happy with the purchase and it fills my needs perfectly. Even though an IPS panel may provide me with a better static image (something I'd enjoy on my work computer), for this machine's purpose the Lightboost display is exactly what I wanted - the clearest picture possible when motion is involved.


----------



## hamzatm

I had no idea that monitor existed xD

Would love to compare the XL2720T to my XL2411T, I used to have the 27" VG278H and VG278HE and I do prefer 27" over 24", but those two monitors had noticeably worse lightboost clarity compared to the super-smooth 1ms panel used in my current XL2411T. I'm hoping the 1ms panel in the new 2720t will be as awesome as my 2411t

Damn it's twice the price though.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *epik*
> 
> So is this really legit? I'm sick of being let down every time people claim that LCDs have finally matched CRTs.
> 
> I can't stand anything less than perfect 120hz or 150hz CRT refresh rates. It matters enough to me that I quite gaming altogether when companies stopped supporting the drivers for the FW900 and I couldn't get it working consistently.


Epic, it's more than just "legit"--its' the REAL thing.

And I was one of those CRT holdovers who refusd to ever let go of my Dell P1130 (after previous CRT's I had broke). And EXCEPT for some 60 hz emulators (that can't be used with the MAME strobe compile for 0.148), I would never need a CRT again.

You still won't (besides the aforementioned mame) be able to run 60 fps @ 60hz smooth(since lightboost doesn't work there), but you can even remove the 60 hz refresh rates from windows totally with CRU so you no longer have to worry about DX10 crysis running at 60 hz!


----------



## two4teezee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Would love to compare the XL2720T to my XL2411T, I used to have the 27" VG278H and VG278HE and I do prefer 27" over 24", but those two monitors had noticeably worse lightboost clarity compared to the super-smooth 1ms panel used in my current XL2411T. I'm hoping the 1ms panel in the new 2720t will be as awesome as my 2411t


I don't have a XL2411T to compare to but according to the BenQ spec sheet for the XL2420T, they are somewhat similar. 1ms response time, but slightly lower brightness (I think, I can't check right now).


----------



## jeri

with lb now on, black looks like brown/gray gulash







any tips to get the colors better?


----------



## virus86

I just got 3x ASUS VG248QE to compliment my GTX Titan SLI. Im only running two of them right now since the provided DVI cable is too short. Hurrah for Amazon Prime one day shipping. After tweeking the settings per pcmonitors.info's information, the colors are much better than my old Acer S232hl. Now to the lightboost hack:

I used the CRU program to make the custom resolution on both my monitors, but it only worked for my middle (main) monitor. Me secondary monitor was set to 120hz, but lightboost was not enabled. Ill try again once I get my longer DVI cable and enable surround.

Is lighboost supposed to be so much dimmer than 100% brightness, no lightboost? Plus the colors really blow.


----------



## littledonny

I crank up nvidia digital vibrance to 80% to fix the dull colors.


----------



## SightUp

Can someone who did this to a BenQ monitor send me a PM? I need a little help setting this up!


----------



## jeri

well the only thing is do is just pull the digital vibrance higher, white is much better yes, but your black just blows, its not black its brown/grey/yellow something


----------



## two4teezee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeri*
> 
> well the only thing is do is just pull the digital vibrance higher, white is much better yes, but your black just blows, its not black its brown/grey/yellow something


I'm not sure I agree with this, my blacks are pretty black. For my monitor I did not adjust the digital vibrance setting at all. It was all a mix of brightness, contrast and levels for the RGB channels.


----------



## jeri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *two4teezee*
> 
> I'm not sure I agree with this, my blacks are pretty black. For my monitor I did not adjust the digital vibrance setting at all. It was all a mix of brightness, contrast and levels for the RGB channels.


can u share your settings maybe with me, or which colorprofile are u using?


----------



## two4teezee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeri*
> 
> can u share your settings maybe with me, or which colorprofile are u using?


I'll post my settings tonight or tomorrow when I'm home from work.


----------



## virus86

I got all 3 monitors up. I tried the steps per the below link and it didnt work. After reboot, the screens were blank. I had to go into safe mode and run the reset all for CRU.

http://www.blurbusters.com/the-amazing-surround-crt-equivalent-setup/

Do I do the hack before I enable Surround? Thanks.


----------



## micro18

Hello,

Im running BenQ HL2411T with GTX660, Lightboost works wonders, but...

When Im connecting my 22" 1680x1050 monitor as my second one, my BenQ is tearing SO MUCH while Lightboost is ON.

Is there any solution for that ?


----------



## jeri

when my asus is on with light boost and im watching a movie on tv via hdmi on pc = unwatchable, gotta turn monitor off...lagging so much.
ps: tried playing torchlight 2 with light boost, maaajor probs... stutter 1fps, could barely make it back to dtop


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeri*
> 
> when my asus is on with light boost and im watching a movie on tv via hdmi on pc = unwatchable, gotta turn monitor off...lagging so much.
> ps: tried playing torchlight 2 with light boost, maaajor probs... stutter 1fps, could barely make it back to dtop


You've enabled it wrong son. Did you use CRU?


----------



## virus86

Argh! I cant get lightboost to work on my surround setup! Can I use 3x DVI or does it have to be 2x DVI and DP (all on the same card)? My HDTV is my 4th monitor, would that cause problems?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *virus86*
> 
> I got all 3 monitors up. I tried the steps per the below link and it didnt work. After reboot, the screens were blank. I had to go into safe mode and run the reset all for CRU.
> 
> http://www.blurbusters.com/the-amazing-surround-crt-equivalent-setup/
> 
> Do I do the hack before I enable Surround? Thanks.


Yes. It's best to enable the hack before you enable surround.

Vega did it successfully, we'll have to have him post a HOWTO. I know we badly need a HOWTO for surround LIghtBoost setups...

The best way to do this is to enable LightBoost, THEN disable 3D stereoscopic, THEN combine your monitors. And use ToastyX CRU to switch to a LightBoost-compatible mode. One good tip; You don't need to use the lightboost.bin file, but create resolution with sufficiently large Vertical Totals (1147 and up); that re-enables LightBoost.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeri*
> 
> when my asus is on with light boost and im watching a movie on tv via hdmi on pc = unwatchable, gotta turn monitor off...lagging so much.
> ps: tried playing torchlight 2 with light boost, maaajor probs... stutter 1fps, could barely make it back to dtop


You can fix the problem by following this tip found in the LightBoost HOWTO.
Quote:


> TIP: Improving Convenience, Stability & Eliminating "Control+T":
> Once you've verified LightBoost works (Step 12), and the registry tweak was already installed (Step 4), you can make LightBoost "stick" by going to nVidia Control Panel and disabling "Enable Stereoscopic 3D" (clear the checkbox in Step 8). If the screen did not flicker when doing this, LightBoost is still enabled even after disabling 3D!
> - Games launch in 2D without needing Control+T
> - Driver stability is improved in this mode, less freezing occurs.
> - VSYNC OFF now works much more reliably, reducing input lag, fps higher than Hz.
> (Note: Some games may automatically switch resolutions; make sure it stays at 120 Hz)


----------



## alexp247365

Sort of in the same boat as you Virus86. I am trying to get lightboost to work in the Span-displays with surround option to have it act as one large screen. I can use toasty's CRU utility to enable lightboost with his .bin file on all three monitors. However, when it comes time to try and link them into one display whether in portrait, or landscape, the driver crashes.

Vega has a video of Lightboost in portrait, but I'm thinking he may have used a custom window mode for his demo as opposed to span multiple displays.


----------



## CallsignVega

*SURROUND LIGHTBOOST INSTRUCTIONS*

I have not used Toastyx's version, I just do it the original way I discovered works as I have gotten really quick at it:

1. Have "all displays active". Not surround.
2. Change all monitors so that they are *not* running at 120 Hz, use something other.
3. Create a custom resolution via NVIDIA control panel with the following timings for all three monitors:










4. Once the resolution is created on all three monitors to look as above, switch all three monitors to that resolution.
5. *OPTIONAL* depending if your monitors are or are not *stuck* in Lightboost mode. If not in LB mode, configure 3D to enable them. If in LB mode, go to next step.
6. Monitors should now be in non-Surround LB mode. Open CRU.exe
7. Make all monitors look like this:










8. You can use the copy and import/export feature at your leisure. *Note: removing all other resolutions/options in CRU.exe may be imperative to get some games to run (by force) your LB resolution and not some other resolution/refresh rate! As an example, on my display setup the only resolution options I have are non-bezel corrected 3240x1920, bezel corrected 3340x1920 and single monitor 1920x1080. Not sure why you would want all those other "trash" resolutions available anyway.
9. Reboot.
10. Verify monitors are still in LB mode.
11. Configure Surround as normal.
12. Enjoy Surround Lightboost epicness.

You won't ever have to mess with these settings again unless you re-install the driver, or you unplug the monitor(s) for more then a few seconds.


----------



## micro18

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *micro18*
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Im running BenQ HL2411T with GTX660, Lightboost works wonders, but...
> 
> When Im connecting my 22" 1680x1050 monitor as my second one, my BenQ is tearing SO MUCH while Lightboost is ON.
> 
> Is there any solution for that ?


Can anyone help me, plz ?


----------



## jeri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> You've enabled it wrong son. Did you use CRU?


cru?


----------



## alexp247365

Just got back from a bike-ride, and this was the first forum I checked to see if Vega posted. LoL Awesome Vega! Will try this and report back. Just one question, though. Can you flip all three monitors to portrait before doing the steps above, or do you flip the surround screen to portrait afterwards?


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeri*
> 
> cru?


Meet:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> *SURROUND LIGHTBOOST INSTRUCTIONS*
> 
> I have not used Toastyx's version, I just do it the original way I discovered works as I have gotten really quick at it:
> 
> 1. Have "all displays active". Not surround.
> 2. Change all monitors so that they are *not* running at 120 Hz, use something other.
> 3. Create a custom resolution via NVIDIA control panel with the following timings for all three monitors:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. Once the resolution is created on all three monitors to look as above, switch all three monitors to that resolution.
> 5. *OPTIONAL* depending if your monitors are or are not *stuck* in Lightboost mode. If not in LB mode, configure 3D to enable them. If in LB mode, go to next step.
> 6. Monitors should now be in non-Surround LB mode. Open CRU.exe
> 7. Make all monitors look like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 8. You can use the copy and import/export feature at your leisure. *Note: removing all other resolutions/options in CRU.exe may be imperative to get some games to run (by force) your LB resolution and not some other resolution/refresh rate! As an example, on my display setup the only resolution options I have are non-bezel corrected 3240x1920, bezel corrected 3340x1920 and single monitor 1920x1080. Not sure why you would want all those other "trash" resolutions available anyway.
> 9. Reboot.
> 10. Verify monitors are still in LB mode.
> 11. Configure Surround as normal.
> 12. Enjoy Surround Lightboost epicness.
> 
> You won't ever have to mess with these settings again unless you re-install the driver, or you unplug the monitor(s) for more then a few seconds.


----------



## alexp247365

Only hard thing about your instructions vega... was trying to read them side-ways. If you want to flip into portrait mode, do after you link the displays, there will be some radio buttons to choose landscape,portriat, and flipped.

Rep to you Vega. Confirmed that your instructions work for Surround Lightboost. They are definitely not the same as getting one monitor to work.

Now to figure out how to calibrate them.


----------



## CallsignVega

Yes, you can freely swap between landscape and portrait Lightboost surround as long as "3D" is not checked.


----------



## jeri

anyways, i use only 1 monitor, but the prob i have since i run the asus with 120hz when i watch some movies on my samsung 40 inch, its stutters. i think i has something to do with the 120hz on monitor. playing with mpc and i have the resolution+hz already defined in there, so it plays instantly in fullscreen wich is 1920x1080 ( desktop resized to 1082x1042 at 60hz)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/blajz.jpg/


----------



## virus86

Im stuck on Step 5 because only my middle monitor has LB on. How do I enable 3D to get the other two monitors to do LB?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeri*
> 
> anyways, i use only 1 monitor, but the prob i have since i run the asus with 120hz when i watch some movies on my samsung 40 inch, its stutters. i think i has something to do with the 120hz on monitor. playing with mpc and i have the resolution+hz already defined in there, so it plays instantly in fullscreen wich is 1920x1080 ( desktop resized to 1082x1042 at 60hz)


Why 1842x1042? Can't you disable overscan on your HDTV so that everything shows within your screen on your Samsung at once?

menu->picture->picture options->size->"screen fit" (instead of 16x9)
For perfectly fitting 1920x1080.
Then lower your Sharpness setting, to eliminate the halos around computer text on a HDTV.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *virus86*
> 
> Im stuck on Step 5 because only my middle monitor has LB on. How do I enable 3D to get the other two monitors to do LB?


Have you activated 3D Vision on each of them first? (Vega, how did you do it on the other monitors, I'm not sure if your instructions include this)


----------



## jeri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Why 1842x1042? Can't you disable overscan on your HDTV so that everything shows within your screen on your Samsung at once?
> 
> menu->picture->picture options->size->"screen fit" (instead of 16x9)
> For perfectly fitting 1920x1080.
> Then lower your Sharpness setting, to eliminate the halos around computer text on a HDTV.


aah thx, totaly forgot to change it, had 22 before, so i had to resize it. but with the custom hz/resolution for asus the stutter is gone


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Have you activated 3D Vision on each of them first? (Vega, how did you do it on the other monitors, I'm not sure if your instructions include this)


You can still enable 3D any of the ways that are out there. Use the .inf files, 3D emitter etc. I use a 3D emitter.


----------



## virus86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> You can still enable 3D any of the ways that are out there. Use the .inf files, 3D emitter etc. I use a 3D emitter.


When I tried the inf version, I get the "The INF file you selected does not support this method of installation" error.

Ill implement ToastyX Beta's instructions into your step 5 and see if it works after I finish my CPU stability tests.


----------



## jeri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *virus86*
> 
> When I tried the inf version, I get the "The INF file you selected does not support this method of installation" error.
> 
> Ill implement ToastyX Beta's instructions into your step 5 and see if it works after I finish my CPU stability tests.


manualy installing each monitor from the .inf?


----------



## virus86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeri*
> 
> manualy installing each monitor from the .inf?


The instructions says to right click the .inf and choose install. Are there a different set of steps in a multi-monitor setup?


----------



## CallsignVega

Oh not this again lol. Sorry, about every week like clockwork we have to go over how to install monitor .inf's.


----------



## jeri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *virus86*
> 
> The instructions says to right click the .inf and choose install. Are there a different set of steps in a multi-monitor setup?












something else seems to be the issue on me atm. after succesfully activating light boost (right this time)







and adding custom resolution... anyways, after a several restarts its off again... or has it something to do with the mpc and the short switch of hz, dunno dont why its even 'switching' after creating custom resolutions+custom hz. so its defined anyway in the mpc in the screen.

edit1: reinstalled the monitor from the .inf and its back on again. waiting for after next reboot if it stays on.


----------



## SightUp

Every time I disable "Enable Stereoscopic 3D" the screen flickers. How do I get it so that when I am in game, I do not have to press Ctrl+T?


----------



## virus86

Woot! I got it working! Here is how I did it.

Perform Steps 1-4 per http://www.overclock.net/t/1339384/zero-motion-blur-lcd-nvidia-lightboost-hack-looks-like-crt-looks-like-480hz/810#post_19692305

At this point, I was only able to get one monitor (middle one in my case) to have LB on.

Then I performed Steps 1-4 per "ToastyX - BETA INSTRUCTIONS" http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost/

One monitor should still be in LB mode.

Then I enabled surround, clicked run setup wizard for 3D (completed the setup by trial and error), and then unchecked the Enable stereoscopic 3D.

Now all my monitors are in LB mode with Surround.

My HDTV is my 4th monitor and it works.

I adjusted my monitors to be 90 Contrast to offset most of the dimming due to LB and increase Digital vbrance to +80% to offset most of the color washing.

Surround LB still active after a restart!


----------



## crabula

I've enabled LB using the CRU method and now I can't disable it, please help. Have tried setting Hz to 60 but it re-enables when I switch back to 120, and there's no option for 144.

Is LB the cause of judder when turning your head in FPS's? If so I'll pass, it's horrible! I just installed a Gigabyte GTX 680 SOC at the same time as the monitor though, if it's the card I'll spew... :c

Thx


----------



## shedokan

Take off the power cable


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crabula*
> 
> I've enabled LB using the CRU method and now I can't disable it, please help. Have tried setting Hz to 60 but it re-enables when I switch back to 120, and there's no option for 144.
> 
> Is LB the cause of judder when turning your head in FPS's? If so I'll pass, it's horrible! I just installed a Gigabyte GTX 680 SOC at the same time as the monitor though, if it's the card I'll spew... :c
> 
> Thx


Lightboost only does that if you can't keep up at least 100FPS in your games. 120 frames is ideal. Those of us who have enough graphical power/or turn down in game settings to achieve enough FPS don't suffer that problem with lightboost.

It was written in the small script


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crabula*
> 
> I've enabled LB using the CRU method and now I can't disable it, please help. Have tried setting Hz to 60 but it re-enables when I switch back to 120, and there's no option for 144.
> 
> Is LB the cause of judder when turning your head in FPS's? If so I'll pass, it's horrible! I just installed a Gigabyte GTX 680 SOC at the same time as the monitor though, if it's the card I'll spew... :c
> 
> Thx


Lightboost only does that if you can't keep up at least 100FPS in your games. 120 frames is ideal. Those of us who have enough graphical power/or turn down in game settings to achieve enough FPS don't suffer that problem with lightboost.

It was written in the small script


----------



## crabula

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> Take off the power cable


Thanks! Worked.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Lightboost only does that if you can't keep up at least 100FPS in your games. 120 frames is ideal. Those of us who have enough graphical power/or turn down in game settings to achieve enough FPS don't suffer that problem with lightboost.
> 
> It was written in the small script


Ahh yeah I'm not pulling enough FPS. Thanks.

My new 680 is running BFBC2 pretty damn poorly... I thought at least 100FPS but I'm on ~60-70FPS (1080p) ?! My ancient Q9550 @ 3.4GHz must be holding me back. I'm getting a whole new PC and a second 680 soon so that should be sorted. Or maybe sell the 680 and get a titan.


----------



## crabula

Oh how do I get 144Hz option back after CRU LB method? Highest is 120Hz now.

Thanks sorry for all the noob questions.


----------



## shedokan

Its weird, before I had only 120Hz as option as well (I think its because you trick it into thinking you have a VG278) but after I re-enabled LB I got all refresh rates available, just saying not that its useful or anything







I mean why would you want 144Hz


----------



## Razor 116

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> Its weird, before I had only 120Hz as option as well (I think its because you trick it into thinking you have a VG278) but after I re-enabled LB I got all refresh rates available, just saying not that its useful or anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean why would you want 144Hz


Because it's 24 more than 120 lol.


----------



## shedokan

Not sure if trolling or just







?

Let me fix my sentence: Why would you want 144Hz *non LB*

@EDIT: Ow, you own a ATI GPU


----------



## crabula

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> Why would you want 144Hz *non LB*


Because I can't push enough fps for LB yet







So still trying to find how to get 144Hz back :c


----------



## writer21

Uninstall any inf files and install original inf or let windows do that. Then switch to 144hz mode and look up all info in custom resolution section on nvidia control panel. Write everything down to take screenshot. Now install lightboost again with Toasty's program and add if with those values manually. It should work.


----------



## ToastyX

If you want to reset everything, just run reset-all.exe and reboot.

If you want to add 144 Hz while keeping the LightBoost configuration, add a detailed resolution using the "Automatic - LCD reduced" timing option.


----------



## fdskl

anyone know if the GTX 580 is compatible with the LB tweak? I can't seem to get it working on my monitor after trying both the ToastyX and the original method as linked in the OP. I'm getting some very weird images

is occurring after I enable stereoscopic 3d. sometimes i can enable it, but as soon as I launch a game that same thing happens. the only way I can get out of it is rebooting into safemode and restoring settings...


----------



## jeri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fdskl*
> 
> anyone know if the GTX 580 is compatible with the LB tweak? I can't seem to get it working on my monitor after trying both the ToastyX and the original method as linked in the OP. I'm getting some very weird images
> 
> is occurring after I enable stereoscopic 3d. sometimes i can enable it, but as soon as I launch a game that same thing happens. the only way I can get out of it is rebooting into safemode and restoring settings...


happened to me too, but only ingame. after u succesfully enabled 3d (look at monitor osd settings/lightboost on and adjust options are on) u have to disable stereoscopic 3d in invidia menu and reboot. that fixed for me. anyway, somehow i couldnt do any profile choosing right after the enabling lightboost in the monitor osd. after disabled it in the nvidia menu and reboot, i can choose profiles again but cant acces the lightboost increase/decrease setting. is it the whole point of the lightboost hack? kinda keeping it 'stealth' ?


----------



## Arc0s

If you can't access lightboost increase/decrease settings, then light boost is not on for you.


----------



## alexp247365

My machine runs BF:BC2 in portrait surround lightboost @ 120 fps pretty much 98 percent of the time.

Specs are:
3 Asus 248QE debezled in portrait (I've got the debezeling down and can do it for you if interested, custom work needed as the vesa connectors are in the plastic)
I7 2600k @ 4.9
8gb ram @ 1600mhz
Msi P67 board
2 titans bios modded 1.212 voltage @ 1176 max boost

Will upgrade to a haswell board with three sli slots in the future though to play some of the more modern games at 120fps.


----------



## shedokan

Mark why are you using LB at 50%? What's the diff compare to 100% at that number?

I've been using Contrast at 100 and LB at 10%, now using Contrast at 90 and LB at 50%, I could read pixperan correctly at 30 but it was slightly harder







still don't know which settings I prefer, but LB at 10% is still slightly clearer at pixperan tests


----------



## jderbs

I just got done setting lightboost up on my 3 monitor surround setup, but when I try to play a game (battlefield 3) the displays go nuts and my nvidia drivers end up crashing.

Any ideas?

Edit: Nevermind, unchecking 3d in the control panel stopped it from happening.


----------



## shedokan

Are you playing games on 3D or anything? I never had to check the 3D


----------



## jeri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> If you can't access lightboost increase/decrease settings, then light boost is not on for you.


well its just keeps getting disabling by itself, after a reboot it seems. any ideas?


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeri*
> 
> well its just keeps getting disabling by itself, after a reboot it seems. any ideas?


Did you try the CRU tutorial that toasty posted? Lightboost should stick even after reboots. Check it out post #692:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1339384/zero-motion-blur-lcd-nvidia-lightboost-hack-looks-like-crt-looks-like-480hz/690#post_19528987


----------



## nlmiller0015

Im guess there no way to use 144hz with this


----------



## jeri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> Did you try the CRU tutorial that toasty posted? Lightboost should stick even after reboots. Check it out post #692:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1339384/zero-motion-blur-lcd-nvidia-lightboost-hack-looks-like-crt-looks-like-480hz/690#post_19528987


yeah thx, that worked well


----------



## jeri

well it worked one whole day, but after shutting down and start the pc on on the next day, its disabled again. so i must start the whole process all over again.... and that every day, not exactly what i had in mind......


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> Are you playing games on 3D or anything? I never had to check the 3D


I think it enabled itself after the wizard


----------



## jeri

fixed my lb. it stays on all the time now, even on the next day







dont know what it was, just reinstalled drivers and monitor + redid the whole thing with cru!


----------



## virus86

Has anyone adjusted anything here of offset the LB colors?



All I changed is 90% contrast on the monitors and +80% digital vibrance.


----------



## Arc0s

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *virus86*
> 
> Has anyone adjusted anything here of offset the LB colors?
> 
> 
> 
> All I changed is 90% contrast on the monitors and +80% digital vibrance.






This is how I have my Asus vg248qe:
Monitor contrast: 90
Lightboost: 50%

Nvidia settings:


Nvidia Red channel settings to remove some of the red tint:


Remember is all preference so play around with the controls until you achieve something that looks good to you.


----------



## virus86

Thanks! I dont have the patience to fine tweek picture quality.


----------



## jeri

100 or 90 contrast on monitor, reduced some red down to 32, added a bit green, blue stayed and up digital vibr till 60 or so.


----------



## fdskl

still can't get LB working on my gtx 580. reformatted and tried both the CRU method and the original method, screen just goes haywire after enabling 3d or rebooting after setting the resolution with CRU.


the closest I've gotten it to work was this:


but as you can see, I still can't mess with the Light Boost settings.


----------



## virus86

Try latest stable or beta drivers?
Try another dual link DVI cable?
Try using a DP cable?
Defective monitor?


----------



## CallsignVega

Try a displayport connection. Has anyone run Lightboost on this monitor via a GTX580 successfully? I forgot someone here said they had the same scrambled screen but got rid of it somehow. Are you sure you are using the correct timings? Look's like something that would occur if the timings were bad.


----------



## fdskl

i've tried latest stable, latest beta, and the drivers that came on the cd. don't have a displayport cable, but I guess I could try ordering a displayport to DVI cable and I can give another dual link dvi cable a shot, jeri said he was having those problems but his end all fix was using CRU. i've done the timings manually, and I've also imported the bin file that everyone's been using for CRU, so I really doubt it's that, I've done it so many times the margin for that kind of error is so slight.

even when I set up a custom resolution just in NVIDIA's drivers I get the same scrambled screen using the timings you provided.


----------



## fdskl

just tried a different dual link dvi cable, same results.


----------



## CallsignVega

Just take it to a friends house. Surely you know someone else that has a NVIDIA card on anything from an old desktop to a laptop? That will help tremendously in the troubleshooting.


----------



## fdskl

just tested the monitor at my buddy's place, he has a gtx 480. i followed the CRU tutorial once again:


as soon as I rebooted after applying the timings I was welcomed to that screen.

and for proof:


----------



## jeri

u set it to 120hz i presume? not 60 and not 144? try to uninstall the monitor reboot and use the .inf for the 27 asus. well known as the first method


----------



## CallsignVega

The weird thing is he says it works fine at 144 Hz. That is the highest bandwidth requirement so it shouldn't be the cable or connectivity. The thing that is really curious to me is others have gotten this same scrambled image but were able to resolve it. Have you tried resetting monitor to factory defaults? In non-3D Lightboost mode all refresh rates and resolutions work fine?

Here try this. DON'T use CRU and put the custom timings into NVIDIA control panel only and see what happens.


----------



## fdskl

i've already tried the original method, doesn't work for me either. oddly enough I got it working on the 480 by using a mixture of the original method and CRU, I took it home and managed to get it working by doing the exact same steps on my 580. left for awhile, came back and the screen was scrambled again. now I can't even get it back to where it was.

and for vega, I gave that a shot on a fresh driver install (no monitor inf, nothing else attempted).


as soon as I hit test:


----------



## Rage19420

Heres my settings that work for me: Monitor Contrast and LB at 100%


----------



## ji536994

Hello everyone,

I was hoping I could get some troubleshooting help with my setup. I have a VG248QE and a 650gtx TI boost and windows vista, and I have been having issues getting lighboost to work how I want it.

Using the hack I can only seem to complete to step 5, where I install the registry tweak and it seems to take. Even after re-booting though, I do not see the option to ""Enable Stereoscopic 3D settings for all displays" nor does it have stereoscopic 3D as an option in my Nvidia control panel. Where do I need to initially enable it? When I look at my drivers for the monitor, it shows the correct driver for the vg278 lightboost ,and when i look at the registry it shows correctly also, so I believe all the other steps are correct.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fdskl*
> 
> i've already tried the original method, doesn't work for me either. oddly enough I got it working on the 480 by using a mixture of the original method and CRU, I took it home and managed to get it working by doing the exact same steps on my 580. left for awhile, came back and the screen was scrambled again. now I can't even get it back to where it was.
> 
> and for vega, I gave that a shot on a fresh driver install (no monitor inf, nothing else attempted).
> 
> as soon as I hit test:


Wait, so it was working in 3D lightboost mode? Then it scrambled by itself after a certain period of time?


----------



## fdskl

yep, dvi cables were screwed tight and I didn't have a power surge or anything like that. I left it working perfectly, LB was adjustable for once and was working flawlessly in the games I threw at it. came back and as soon as I shook my mouse to log back in to my computer, screen was scrambled.


----------



## jderbs

I've got LB enabled on my surround setup, but I want to build a new PC in the near future that can actually maintain 100+ fps in 5760x1080. If my monitors are LB enabled now can I just plug them into a new computer if I wanted to use ATI cards? Or will I have to do some other process to get everything working again?


----------



## socketus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Oh not this again lol. Sorry, about every week like clockwork we have to go over how to install monitor .inf's.


That's because there is a step missing from this text on the BlurBusters page.

Unofficial Hack for LightBoost in 2D (No Glasses Emitter)

Install this INF file via Device Manager, then reboot.
Detailed instructions: First, right-click this INF file in File Explorer and select "Install". Next, go to Device Manager and right-click your monitor, select "Update Driver Software", then "Browser my computer&#8230;", then "Let me pick&#8230;", then disable "Show compatible hardware", *then click Have Disk*, then select the "LightBoost EDID Override" from manufacturer ASUS (even if you don't have ASUS), and then reboot.

I kept getting the "The INF file you selected does not support this method of installation" error - you only select Install, then follow the rest of the steps. That's how I got my 1 VG248qe to work.

////////////////////

Right now, my problem is virus86's problem - I have a single center monitor with LB enabled, I did that last night in landscape. I now have all 3 qe monitors in portrait - identified as 1 - 2 - 3 left to right. But my left monitor doesn't have any mouse access, while my right monitor shows the browser. NCP on the center monitor has Activate all displays checked, I've done the custom res detailed by Vega on the center monitor, and I'm about to try virus86's fix in post 835.

Here goes !

*ADD:* Ok, I'm running CRU and it shows my left screen IDed as ACI27F8 while the other 2 are ACI24E1 - hmmm.


----------



## littledonny

Can someone give me the correct parameters to create a custom resolution for 3D Vision? When I apply the lightboost.bin file with CRU, none of the resolutions allow me to play a game on a single monitor in 3D Vision. Every time it tries to switch to Stereoscopic 3D mode, I get an error stating that I am attempting to run an unsupported display mode for 3D Vision. I imagine that I need to add the correct 1080p/120hz resolution for 3D Vision back into CRU manually. I am confused as to why lightboost is working on a custom resolution unsupported by 3D Vision...


----------



## socketus

Well, that didn' work ! Using this as a guide, I check Span displays with Surround - but am confronted with a popup showing my 3 monitors - all green checked - and a diagram showing how to connect a 3rd cable to that left monitor. I've got this far before, and the 3 monitors were red Xed. This time, I hit the Apply button and still no left monitor, actually got the "Program has stopped working" error. NCP is not responding.

Also, I no longer see the Enable 3d, so no wizard so ... yah, pretty much bungled this all up.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1339384/zero-motion-blur-lcd-nvidia-lightboost-hack-looks-like-crt-looks-like-480hz/830#post_19709730


----------



## virus86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rage19420*
> 
> Heres my settings that work for me: Monitor Contrast and LB at 100%


Nice settings, but the high gamma washed out the colors. I decreased it to 1.


----------



## jeri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rage19420*
> 
> Heres my settings that work for me: Monitor Contrast and LB at 100%


srsly?? well u got there nice solarium aswell now


----------



## Rage19420

I know it seems a bit extreme but its not that bad. It's weird, as I tried some others who posted their settings and to me the colors were way way off.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *littledonny*
> 
> Can someone give me the correct parameters to create a custom resolution for 3D Vision?


Here's the screenshot:



The same numbers in the right window, can be used in either ToastyX's Utility or nVidia Custom Resolution.

First, trigger LightBoost on each monitor, one by one.
Then set all 3 monitors to this same resolution. Now you no longer need 3D stereoscopic checkbox in order to enable Lightboost, since using these numbers automatically enable LightBoost (once the monitors have been initialized; as long as you don't unplug power)


----------



## socketus

That might have been my mistake. The last attempt was to set up each monitor with LB separately, but I enabled 3d stereoscopic ... and after that, no more LB. I'll give it a proper shot when I get up REFRESHED.... dunno what got me up before noon on a Satidy, but rest assured that I will flog whomever is the culprit !


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fdskl*
> 
> still can't get LB working on my gtx 580. reformatted and tried both the CRU method and the original method, screen just goes haywire after enabling 3d or rebooting after setting the resolution with CRU.


This looks like a defect; I'd get this monitor exchanged. But it is not 100% definite if it's caused by bad software. Do you have a 3D Vision kit? Does it work? If 3D Vision does not work, then you've got a monitor defect.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *socketus*
> 
> That might have been my mistake. The last attempt was to set up each monitor with LB separately, but I enabled 3d stereoscopic ... and after that, no more LB. I'll give it a proper shot when I get up REFRESHED.... dunno what got me up before noon on a Satidy, but rest assured that I will flog whomever is the culprit !


Provided the LightBoost worked at least once in the monitor's lifetime (Without unplugging the monitor), it doesn't matter if LB is gone that way -- the LB will come back when the custom resolution (with Vertical Total 1147 or 1149) is used. If you have already initialized LB already (Even a few days ago), provided you never unplugged your monitors, you can now re-enable LightBoost via the custom resolution instead of using the 3D stereoscopic checkbox.

It's an nVidia vendor unlock feature built into LightBoost monitors; it only needs to be unlocked once (until your monitor is unplugged).


----------



## socketus

Ok, thanks ! I've just now got 1 monitor to run in LB. What I did:


unplugged all but one monitor, took out the 2nd card, reset cmos
I set up the custom res in NCP per Vega
I used CRU to edit - deleted old inactive entries
imported lightboost.bin & deleted non-120MHz entries
hit OK & rebooted
enabled stereoscopic 3d and ran wizard
rebooted
no LB
wondered if the registry file was in my registry - ForceLightBoostWithoutGlasses.reg
found what to look for, those lines were not in the registry, even though I had added it last week
re-installed LightBoost-Monitor-EDID-override.inf
rebooted
now have LB enabled at 120MHz - value is 10
wow, thats some torture ! Now to try multiple monitors. Any last words ?


----------



## shedokan

LB should've enabled & stick after using CRU only lol

Even some steps in ToastyX instructions aren't needed, all you need is CRU+LB.bin(if you're lazy) and nvidia card :d

But good luck anyhow!


----------



## socketus

Yah, appreciate that. I'm just trying to get familiar with all the settings. I've never had multiple monitors, let alone multiple cards. Slight hiccup there.


----------



## hamzatm

No CRU alone isn't enough (for me anyway) unless you have set up lightboost before in some method.

From a clean installation you need to activate lightboost via some other method before CRU makes it stick, at least that's what I found. Just ran the 3D setup wizard, next, next and exit and then it stuck via CRU.


----------



## motiv

Using LB on benq, with my 7850. It is quite simply amazing playing games at 120hz, with no blur.


----------



## vin97

I have read this thread up to page 35 now.
But I still can't decide whether I should pick up the Asus or the Benq.
Are there any differences between these monitors besides from Asus having a drawable cross-hair and Benq having these brightness tweaks?


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vin97*
> 
> I have read this thread up to page 35 now.
> But I still can't decide whether I should pick up the Asus or the Benq.
> Are there any differences between these monitors besides from Asus having a drawable cross-hair and Benq having these brightness tweaks?


No

People may argue but don't listen to them








Get whichever is cheaper where you live


----------



## vin97

I don't know if I am double-posting now because my internet sucks (







) but do these optimal settings (10% LB, 92% contrast) apply to both monitors?


----------



## littledonny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Here's the screenshot:
> 
> 
> 
> The same numbers in the right window, can be used in either ToastyX's Utility or nVidia Custom Resolution.
> 
> First, trigger LightBoost on each monitor, one by one.
> Then set all 3 monitors to this same resolution. Now you no longer need 3D stereoscopic checkbox in order to enable Lightboost, since using these numbers automatically enable LightBoost (once the monitors have been initialized; as long as you don't unplug power)


I want to play a game using 3D Vision. When I try with the resolution, I get an error message stating that I'm trying to run 3D Vision in an unsupported display mode.


----------



## socketus

Its the refresh rate that is griefing you. LB is for 2D gaming, not 3D. Your monitor just happens to be 3D, and you're enabling 3D in order to get LB working.

A 3D television must display two different images, seemingly simultaneously. Since they can't truly display them simultaneously (at least not economically), the TV has to switch back and forth between left and right images. This effectively doubles the necessary refresh rate.

This is most obvious with HDTVs that use heavy and expensive active shutter glasses. As the TV switches between left and right frames, the glasses shut off light to one eye and then to the other. Therefore, you need a 240hz set to provide 120hz quality in 3D.

SOURCE


----------



## motiv

Now I've got it running on my AMD. Does anyone know if it is possible to get round the switching off the monitor problem? I usually leave it on standby, so it keeps the LB setting, but occasionally I unplug my monitor and lose the LB settings.

It's a bit of a pain setting it up for AMD again









(Also anyone know how to get PixPerAn to run correctly on Windows 8?)


----------



## DeadLink

I finally got the lightboost to work, now I have terrible frame rates and everything runs terrible now.....

Anyone have an idea as to why that would be? My system specs are below I am using a MSI GTX 670 right now instead of the 680..


----------



## motiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeadLink*
> 
> I finally got the lightboost to work, now I have terrible frame rates and everything runs terrible now.....
> 
> Anyone have an idea as to why that would be? My system specs are below I am using a MSI GTX 670 right now instead of the 680..


Do you still need to press Ctrl-T. If so, you should go for the better version which keeps LB on all the time. I've read some people get bad framerates due to this.


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeadLink*
> 
> I finally got the lightboost to work, now I have terrible frame rates and everything runs terrible now.....
> 
> Anyone have an idea as to why that would be? My system specs are below I am using a MSI GTX 670 right now instead of the 680..


If you're using the ctrl+T method your gpu usage will be higher even in 2d mode lightboost. Like the poster below you said. Try to use toasty's method. This way the gpu usage is normal allowing for better fps with added graphics settings. I don't know why it works this way but it definitely does.

An example would be when I first tried lightboost with black ops 2. I have same setup pretty much. 3570k with 670 gtx. In lightboost with the inf and registry file method only with 2xmsaa and I could play with 125 fps. Then I tried toasty's method now I can run 16xcsaa or even 32xcsaa and keep 125 fps.


----------



## DeadLink

Thing is I only get 1-4 frames, one to four. I'm unable to load most games at this point. Still should I try the other method?


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeadLink*
> 
> Thing is I only get 1-4 frames, one to four. I'm unable to load most games at this point. Still should I try the other method?


Then you are most likely using the crtl+t method, try using cru method and it should fix the problem.


----------



## vin97

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vin97*
> do these optimal settings (10% LB, 92% contrast) apply to both monitors?


Anyone?

BTW, I think I will get the BenQ because the Black-EQ seems pretty helpful for competetive FPS gaming while these crosshairs are just ridiculous and stupid.
Also the BenQ is cheaper.


----------



## ovawe

Just got my Asus QE. My main card is Radeon. I'm going to do the swap trick with my old Nvidia to get LB. Before I do that is there anything I can do to help out in terms of data collection?


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vin97*
> 
> I don't know if I am double-posting now because my internet sucks (
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) but do these optimal settings (10% LB, 92% contrast) apply to both monitors?


Yes those are optimal settings for both monitors.


----------



## DeadLink

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> Then you are most likely using the crtl+t method, try using cru method and it should fix the problem.


When I get my machine back I will try that, thank you for the help.


----------



## manicmonkey

Is there a relatively painless way to disable/re-enable lightboost quickly via CRU/another method? I only want to use lightboost for older games, and want it turned off for Crysis 3 etc.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *manicmonkey*
> 
> Is there a relatively painless way to disable/re-enable lightboost quickly via CRU/another method? I only want to use lightboost for older games, and want it turned off for Crysis 3 etc.


Switch refresh rate to 144Hz perhaps?


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Switch refresh rate to 144Hz perhaps?


Get the original values of refresh rates without lightboost installed. Install lightboost using toasty's method then use the program to add the orignal resolutions and refresh rates. It's not hard to be honest.


----------



## vin97

Thanks.


----------



## DeadLink

Got it!, I don't even have to CTRL+T I just forgot to turn off the 3D after getting lightboost to turn on. Silly me thanks again everyone!


----------



## tsunamipop

I have noticed that while playing bf3 that it looks like I am getting screen tearing/jittering now. I have LB enabled, can read 30 on pixperan. Running gtx 680 sli. Any thoughts on why I'm not getting the smooth motion ingame?


----------



## shedokan

You tested in other games with 120FPS?


----------



## tsunamipop

The only other game that i play is Quake Live and it seems to be smooth but I don't know if thats a good game to compare it to. Also quake only uses 1 of my gtx 680s to run. Maybe something to do with my sli. Been on sli for about 2 weeks or so.


----------



## writer21

Its one of my biggest issues with lightboost. If you can't keep smooth 120fps like 99% of the time you definitely notice tearing, and stuttering much easier. At least I'm sensitive to that. Run it at 100hz with 105fps cap and it might be smoother or run 144hz.


----------



## tsunamipop

tried 100 fps/100hz to no avail. went through all if the suggestions to disable triple huffering, vsync off, renderaheadframe limit, disable hyperthreading?all suggestions people have made that help them with this issue.


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsunamipop*
> 
> tried 100 fps/100hz to no avail. went through all if the suggestions to disable triple huffering, vsync off, renderaheadframe limit, disable hyperthreading?all suggestions people have made that help them with this issue.


BF3 is a very demanding game no matter what set up. It's the reason why I use 144hz with bf3. I'm trying to get another 670 for sli soon so I can see how smooth lightboost is with good settings and 120fps but I've heard even with a monster setup it's very hard to keep smooth 120fps. As for settings I usually use renderahead set to 1-3. If I leave it on application I get a drop in frames every couple of seconds. Thing is there is more input lag but nothing you can't adjust to. Also adaptive vsync works well with some games. Like I use it on Max payne 3 at 100hz. Input lag is less and the picture is smoother. I use renderahead set to 3 for max payne 3. Make sure if you're ocing your OC's are stable for the cpu and gpu. Also check power settings in windows. You can try turning off all c states and see if it's smoother. Or set high performance plan in windows.

You can set up shortcuts for power plans then assign hotkeys to change on the fly. Very useful.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsunamipop*
> 
> tried 100 fps/100hz to no avail. went through all if the suggestions to disable triple huffering, vsync off, renderaheadframe limit, disable hyperthreading?all suggestions people have made that help them with this issue.


Motion can be smoother with VSYNC ON. Have you tried turning VSYNC ON / triple buffering? It's not good for competition gaming (input lag), but if you want maximum fluidity, that's the way to go for solo gaming.

Some games are quite stubborn at not wanting to run fps=Hz (which is when you get the complete smooth-as-butter effect).


----------



## jeri

is somebody getting stuttering issues with lightboost on + tv ( samsung ) hooked via hdmi on pc (gtx 670)??


----------



## tsunamipop

If i wanted to add custom resolutions to cru. Where would I find all of the values I needed to add 144 hz and 60 hz. Im still messing trying to get bf3 to run smoother on lightboost. But atm It runs smoother using non lightboost at 120hz. It seems to have more fps drop with lb enabled. So until I find the solution I would like to be able to run non lb modes.


----------



## jeri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsunamipop*
> 
> If i wanted to add custom resolutions to cru. Where would I find all of the values I needed to add 144 hz and 60 hz. Im still messing trying to get bf3 to run smoother on lightboost. But atm It runs smoother using non lightboost at 120hz. It seems to have more fps drop with lb enabled. So until I find the solution I would like to be able to run non lb modes.


just import ur resos from this file http://ul.to/347rvunp


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsunamipop*
> 
> If i wanted to add custom resolutions to cru. Where would I find all of the values I needed to add 144 hz and 60 hz. Im still messing trying to get bf3 to run smoother on lightboost. But atm It runs smoother using non lightboost at 120hz. It seems to have more fps drop with lb enabled. So until I find the solution I would like to be able to run non lb modes.


Yeah, if you are using the lightboost.bin file, how do you manually add the 144 hz non lightboost timing back? What are the values to be entered? the lightboost bin has the 100/110/120 LB settings and removes all others.


----------



## jeri

imho the lightboost switches off automaticly, when u change it from 120 to 100/144.


----------



## tsunamipop

thats my question, when using the lightboost.bin file what values do i need to use 144 or 60 hz also.


----------



## ToastyX

For non-LB resolutions:

Use "Automatic - LCD reduced" for 144 Hz.
Use "Automatic - LCD standard" for anything else.

Keep in mind you can't define both LB 120 Hz and non-LB 120 Hz at the same time (only one will show up), so you will have to define something like 119 Hz instead for non-LB.


----------



## Arc0s

How come I can't set scaling to the display when using lightboost, it only allows me to set scaling to the GPU. Any ideas?


----------



## jeri

what exactly u want to scale? Oo


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeri*
> 
> what exactly u want to scale? Oo


It's just that I read that GPU scaling added input lag as opposed to scaling being performed on the display and wanted to see the difference.


----------



## whybother

Nvidia doesn't fully support display scaling any more. Try running a non-standard resolution on a display with no scaler. Logic would dictate an out-of-bounds error. However, Nvidia drivers will send the native resolution and a scaled image regardless of the setting you choose in control panel.

It is my contention that the above issue is the main cause of what I perceive to be a slight increase in input lag compared to earlier drivers (200 series). The forced scaling is likely using a single frame buffer. Nvidia have already stated that they use a minimum of 1 pre-rendered frames for gaming because "they feel it has no difference to 0 pre-rendered frames". The truth is that a value of 0 results in a loss of fps along with no input lag. We can't have people posting subpar benchmark results. AMD have also gone down this route with recent drivers. It's all about the benchmarks.


Windows is set to 1280x720. Nvidia is set to display scaling. Monitor is receiving a centered 1280x720 picture inside a 1920x1080 signal. FAIL.


----------



## Arc0s

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whybother*
> 
> Nvidia doesn't fully support display scaling any more. Try running a non-standard resolution on a display with no scaler. Logic would dictate an out-of-bounds error. However, Nvidia drivers will send the native resolution and a scaled image regardless of the setting you choose in control panel.
> 
> It is my contention that the above issue is the main cause of what I perceive to be a slight increase in input lag compared to earlier drivers (200 series). The forced scaling is likely using a single frame buffer. Nvidia have already stated that they use a minimum of 1 pre-rendered frames for gaming because "they feel it has no difference to 0 pre-rendered frames". The truth is that a value of 0 results in a loss of fps along with no input lag. We can't have people posting subpar benchmark results. AMD have also gone down this route with recent drivers. It's all about the benchmarks.
> 
> 
> Windows is set to 1280x720. Nvidia is set to display scaling. Monitor is receiving a centered 1280x720 picture inside a 1920x1080 signal. FAIL.






I see, so there's nothing we can do unless Nvidia decides to change things; that's sad. Thanks for your help.


----------



## ThatKidIsCrazy

I'm sorry to sound like a total noob, but can you enable this on an AMD graphics card somehow(7950)?


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThatKidIsCrazy*
> 
> I'm sorry to sound like a total noob, but can you enable this on an AMD graphics card somehow(7950)?


I think you need to connect the monitor to an Nvidia card first to enable lightboost then connect it back to your amd card.


----------



## shedokan

I really like LB 50% with 65% Contrast, PixPerAn readbility is still 30 and everything looks much better


----------



## jeri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> I really like LB 50% with 65% Contrast, PixPerAn readbility is still 30 and everything looks much better


looks kinda way to much blue.


----------



## ThatKidIsCrazy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> I think you need to connect the monitor to an Nvidia card first to enable lightboost then connect it back to your amd card.


So, would a GTS 250 work? That is the only NVIDIA card I have access to ATM, just want to know if that would work.


----------



## ovawe

my 8600 gt worked...


----------



## NewbieSteve

Hello.

I have followed every step and i get the error when trying to install INF file, so i did it the "Have disk" way and it worked. When i look at Screen resolution it says Asus VG278 instead of Asus VG248QE. However i don't have any checkbox for "Enable 3D Stereoscopic" in the Adjust Resolution tab, only in the Nvidia Control Panel. I have enabled it there.

I have done the .REG file part aswell without any problem, however when i got to my screens OSD menu and look at Lightboost it says "OFF" however i can adjust the color from darker to brighter etc so i have no idea if it's working or not. Anyone can help me out?


----------



## socketus

Shouldn't be an Enable 3D checkbox on the Adjust Res tab.

Run the 3d wizard. Sometimes I had to run it twice, reboot, to enable LB in the OSD menu.


----------



## tsunamipop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewbieSteve*
> 
> Hello.
> 
> I have followed every step and i get the error when trying to install INF file, so i did it the "Have disk" way and it worked. When i look at Screen resolution it says Asus VG278 instead of Asus VG248QE. However i don't have any checkbox for "Enable 3D Stereoscopic" in the Adjust Resolution tab, only in the Nvidia Control Panel. I have enabled it there.
> 
> I have done the .REG file part aswell without any problem, however when i got to my screens OSD menu and look at Lightboost it says "OFF" however i can adjust the color from darker to brighter etc so i have no idea if it's working or not. Anyone can help me out?


I ran into that when I tried to revert to old drivers to try to work out some stability issues, but after I installed the most recent drivers the check box returned. When you go to the OSD you should have 3D mode in red also. If it is working the only two options available will be contrast and lightboost.


----------



## NewbieSteve

Thanks, 3D-Mode is on and only those options are available. Checked with the "pixperan" program aswell and there's a huge difference there.

However i noticed that with lightboost on it stretches the screen out, it scales it so to speak. So i can't run it in 4:3 mode is there anyway to stop this from happening? It doesn't do it when i'm not in lightboost mode.

Apart from some minor graphical errors everything is fine !


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NewbieSteve*
> 
> However i noticed that with lightboost on it stretches the screen out, it scales it so to speak. So i can't run it in 4:3 mode is there anyway to stop this from happening? It doesn't do it when i'm not in lightboost mode.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> How come I can't set scaling to the display when using lightboost, it only allows me to set scaling to the GPU. Any ideas?


Have you followed this tip?
Quote:


> TIP: Improving Convenience, Stability & Eliminating "Control+T":
> Once you've verified LightBoost works (Step 12), and the registry tweak was already installed (Step 4), you can make LightBoost "stick" by going to nVidia Control Panel and disabling "Enable Stereoscopic 3D" (clear the checkbox in Step 8). If the screen did not flicker when doing this, LightBoost is still enabled even after disabling 3D!
> - Games launch in 2D without needing Control+T
> - Driver stability is improved in this mode, less freezing occurs.
> - VSYNC OFF now works much more reliably, reducing input lag, fps higher than Hz.
> (Note: Some games may automatically switch resolutions; make sure it stays at 120 Hz)


That way, stereoscopic 3D is turned off on the PC side, but the LightBoost is still enabled in the monitor. This is the LightBoost configuration you really want; since that makes everything convenient, and everything that worked before (e.g. scaling) will work while in LightBoost.


----------



## iNcontroL

Not sure if I did it correctly, so I figure I'd post the steps I went through. The only thing I've noticed so far is that a lot of the color was dimmed after finishing the process.

1. Downloaded CRU
2. Used the "Import&#8230;" button at the bottom to import this file: lightboost.bin
3. Copied 120/110/100 Hz LightBoost resolutions to the other 2 monitors I own.
4. Clicked Ok
5. Restarted Computer
6. In the NVIDIA control panel, opened the "Set up stereoscopic 3D" page, then click the "Run Setup Wizard" button.

I then received this error... "Warning: attempt to run Stereoscopic 3D in a non-stereo display mode, please change to an acceptable mode. See documentation for acceptable Stereoscopic 3D modes.

7. Clicked Next until I reached the end.

Then received this message... "Hardware Test Failed. This hardware test did not complete successfully. To troubleshoot the issue, you can either go back in this wizard and check if all required hardware is properly set up or troubleshoot the issue on nvidia.com by clicking the troubleshoot below. You can also enable 3D Vision and complete the setup from the NVIDIA Control Panel.

8. I just went ahead and clicked exit.
9. Did steps 6 - 8 on all monitors after making each of them primary.

So like I said, still not sure if I did it correctly, and if what I'm seeing is Lightboost. Enable Stereoscopic 3D is still unchecked on the NVIDIA control panel.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iNcontroL*
> 
> So like I said, still not sure if I did it correctly, and if what I'm seeing is Lightboost. Enable Stereoscopic 3D is still unchecked on the NVIDIA control panel.


The easiest way to determine if LightBoost is enabled, is:

1. Open your monitor's OSD menu
2. It should say "3D Mode" in the menu.
3. It should have an unlocked "LightBoost" adjustment setting (somewhere below "Contrast")
4. Your monitor's Brightness setting is locked but Contrast is unlocked.

The other way to test is try a PixPerAn motion test and/or do the finger-wag or pencil-shake test (wag your finger in a dark room in front of a white window on the monitor -- it should look stroboscopic).


----------



## iNcontroL

Ah, great. So it looks like I set everything up correctly. This was an amazing find and at the very least you deserve some Rep for this. Thanks for all the help.

P.S.

Actually had another question regarding ToastyX's method and the VG248QE. If I see it causing any adverse effects on my games, such as Skyrim... Would it be easy to reverse the changes or would I lose something in the process? By losing something I mean maybe a specific resolution, or the ability to use 3D normally.


----------



## jderbs

So I just joined the darkside and replaced my 560ti SLI setup with a single 7970 - without unplugging my monitors - and my lightboost is gone :{

what did I do wrong?


----------



## ToastyX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iNcontroL*
> 
> Actually had another question regarding ToastyX's method and the VG248QE. If I see it causing any adverse effects on my games, such as Skyrim... Would it be easy to reverse the changes or would I lose something in the process? By losing something I mean maybe a specific resolution, or the ability to use 3D normally.


You can use reset-all.exe to remove all overrides (including ones added by installing INF files). That will reset everything back to normal.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jderbs*
> 
> So I just joined the darkside and replaced my 560ti SLI setup with a single 7970 - without unplugging my monitors - and my lightboost is gone :{
> 
> what did I do wrong?


Did you add the LightBoost resolutions using CRU?


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ToastyX*
> 
> You can use reset-all.exe to remove all overrides (including ones added by installing INF files). That will reset everything back to normal.
> Did you add the LightBoost resolutions using CRU?


Yes, added with CRU


----------



## jjpjimmy

I've been thinking about doing the AMD hack to enable lightboost (using a nvidia card and changing it back to the amd)

Is there a specific generation of nvidia cards that are required to enable lightboost?

Edit: -derp







I could look the driver's supported graphics cards-

Will the 8400gs $29.99 @ newegg do the job for me?


----------



## fdskl

Still not able to get LB working properly (and I have a GTX 670 now). I can get the 3d to work properly, but I'm not able to access LB in the OSD. The odd thing is, using the CRU method I don't have the ability to select "Asus 120hz" under stereoscopic 3d, I can only use the 3d Vision Discover. However it does work fine (caveat being LB isn't accessible), the only way I can get the checkbox to select Asus 120hz is if I install another monitor inf. Changing the product ID from ACI24E1 to ACI27F8 doesn't allow me to enable it, even after a full reboot. Problem is, as soon as I use the monitor inf, and reset everything within CRU (and use Asus 120hz stereoscopic enabled), as soon as I boot a game the screen goes scrambled. I can make out the text that the 3d driver is working, but not much else. I've exhausted pretty much every option at this point, couldn't tell you how many times I've reinstalled clean drivers, and did system restores to test out different options.

Does anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fdskl*
> 
> Still not able to get LB working properly (and I have a GTX 670 now). I can get the 3d to work properly, but I'm not able to access LB in the OSD.


Which monitor are you using? Have you also tried doing the ToastyX method instead of the EDID override method too as well? (Installing the lightboost.bin file). Do you have any secondary monitors? Are you using a dual-link DVI cable? (regular 120Hz should look correct and not low-rez)


----------



## fdskl

1. Asus VG248QE
2. Yes, by CRU I mean the ToastyX method of installing Lightboost.bin
3. No secondary monitors.
4. Dual Link DVI cable I received with it, normal 1080p @ 120hz looks perfect.


----------



## mdrejhon

I am now wondering if you have defective DDC line (DDC is serial communications protocol that your monitor uses for host communications, LightBoost requires this to activate: It's confirmed that LightBoost does not activate if the DDC wire in your DVI cable is defective or disconnected in the DVI cable -- it becomes impossible to activate LightBoost if you have no DDC)

Can you *download SoftMCCS* and install / run it?
-- If your DDC is working, you'll see data about your monitor. (Your problem is caused by something else)
-- If your DDC is malfunctioning, you'll see no monitors detected. (This may mean you'll need to return your monitor, but first try testing using a different DVI cable, one pin (the DDC pin) may be malfunctioning)


----------



## fdskl

DDC is working using the software you recommended. "DDC/CI.............................. Supported".


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fdskl*
> 
> DDC is working using the software you recommended. "DDC/CI.............................. Supported".


Hmmm, OK, it's not a dead DDC line. I'm starting to get stumped on this.

When the screen is scrambled, does it say that 3D Mode is enabled in the monitor?
What happens if you try to hit Control+T while the screen is scrambled?
Does things fix themselves? If so, try disabling the 3D stereoscopic checkbox in Control Panel, and see if 3D Mode stays enabled in the monitor. Ideally you want to disable 3D mode on the computer side, but keep 3D mode enabled on the monitor side -- that's the Lightboost state for 2D operation.


----------



## fdskl

When the screen is scrambled, the OSD is illegible. Can't make out anything, all I can do is confirm that it pops up, but it's a mess. Control + T won't do anything, and things do not fix themselves. I have to reboot into safe mode and system restore from a restore point before I made changes. Booting into low resolution video mode (640 x 480) won't even fix it.


----------



## iNcontroL

Does Lightboost require more GPU power to run than standard 120 Hz? How far would I need to upgrade my Video Cards in order to run Lightboost in Surround as actually make use of it? I know Vega is running Lightboost in Surround, but not all of us can afford Quad-SLI Titans.

I'm hoping SLI 780s that are being released next week would be enough. But if someone tells me that you need at least Tri-SLI Titans or SLI 690s then...









P.S.

If you change your refresh rate for your monitors to 110 Hz when using the Lightboost Hack does your GPU downclock properly? Is it even safe to have your GPU downclock with Lightboost?


----------



## motiv

You GPU isn't doing anything with lightboost. It's a monitor thing. No more power or anything


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fdskl*
> 
> When the screen is scrambled, the OSD is illegible. Can't make out anything, all I can do is confirm that it pops up, but it's a mess. Control + T won't do anything, and things do not fix themselves. I have to reboot into safe mode and system restore from a restore point before I made changes. Booting into low resolution video mode (640 x 480) won't even fix it.


Could you explain the circumstances the one time you got it working?


----------



## espk

I'm having some trouble getting LB enabled. I've followed both the normal steps and the ToastyX steps but LB refuses to stay on in game (CSGO). On the desktop my monitor OSD says "3D Mode" with settings grayed out and LB is changeable. As soon as I launch the game I get the green OSD text on the bottom of my screen, my FPS drops to the single digits like my computers about to lock up, and 3D mode and LB are disabled in monitor OSD.

What am I doing wrong? I'm going to start the steps over now just to see if it makes a difference, but I don't know why turning off my monitor/restarting would cause it to break

Latest NV drivers, GTX 670, ASUS VG248QE. I'm running CSGO @ 1024x768

I found a comment on blurbusters that says
Quote:


> "LightBoost can work at any resolution, as long as it's at 100-100Hz, but you may need to use a Custom 1024×768 resolution. You need to go to Custom Resolution and tweak it, with a much larger Vertical Total"


I've seen the settings for 1080p using CRU, how do I know what values to use for 1024?


----------



## shedokan

I'm using myself 1024/1280 for cs go and any other reso below 1920 if I want to and it's just normal, no need todo anything


----------



## fdskl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Could you explain the circumstances the one time you got it working?


Sure, I got it working on my buddy's GTX 480. I can't remember the exact procedure I used, but it did require using the registry edit, the custom monitor inf and the lightboost.bin in CRU. I didn't create a custom resolution in NVIDIA drivers, that would never work. Then I brought it home, and with my GTX 580, following the same procedure I used at my friend's place (and the same DVI cable), I got it working, LB adjustable. I toyed around with it in QuakeLive for like a half an hour, then I went to sleep. Woke up and the screen was scrambled. Thought maybe it was just something messing up with my GPU, so I bought a GTX 670 to throw in and ever since I have not been able to get it working again. I've tried everything possible, as I did with the 580, countless driver installs, a reformat, creating only a custom res in NVIDIA, following both "methods" listed on the blur busters site that are popular around here, system restores and clean driver installs to make sure none of the steps overlapped, and then I started combining methods just like I had to do to get it working on my old card.


----------



## espk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> I'm using myself 1024/1280 for cs go and any other reso below 1920 if I want to and it's just normal, no need todo anything


Well I uninstalled then reinstalled everything involved and still no luck. I'd really like to get this working


----------



## ovawe

8600gt worked


----------



## ronnin426850

subbed for later reading


----------



## shedokan

Reset ur monitor and take cables off reinstall latest drivers fully follow toastyx instructions and not a single reason why wouldn't it work flawlessly

I've enabled LB on 2 other systems in like 3minutes since it has become such a cakewalk with CRU, c'mon guys just read properly lol


----------



## jderbs

I'm building a new rig this weekend. If I use my old rig to enable LB using nvidia cards and then switch to my new rig with ati cards without unplugging the monitors would that work ?


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jderbs*
> 
> I'm building a new rig this weekend. If I use my old rig to enable LB using nvidia cards and then switch to my new rig with ati cards without unplugging the monitors would that work ?


Yes as long as the monitor is not unplugged from the power source, lightboost should stay enabled.


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> Yes as long as the monitor is not unplugged from the power source, lightboost should stay enabled.


Cool... will I have to do anything with CRU or just plug and play?


----------



## espk

So, is there any issue with lightboost when using multiple monitors? (primary monitor lightboost compatible, secondary not)

It was working fine (in native res only) but stopped working after shut down/reboot. This is frustrating. I don't know the problem is, I'm following the directions exactly.

edit- ok I managed to get it working in 1024. Uninstalled my nvidia + monitor drivers/devices, unplugged my monitor, rebooted, followed toasty X again and it worked. The only thing I did different this time was unplugging my monitor, I guess that was the problem. I'll see if it lasts after a shut down now.

vv Yeah I know the monitor is incompatible, I was just wondering if it caused problems with the hack, running one LB and the other normally


----------



## socketus

your 2nd monitor's incompatibility - can't run LB like that. LB is in the monitor, not the pc.


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jderbs*
> 
> Cool... will I have to do anything with CRU or just plug and play?


If I'm not mistaken, I think you need to use the custom resolution on the computer with the AMD card also so that games won't kick the monitor out of lightboost.


----------



## jderbs

going out of my mind trying to enable my surround setup... my left and right monitor are LB enabled. The middle won't cooperate no matter what I've tried.

Any ideas?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jderbs*
> 
> going out of my mind trying to enable my surround setup... my left and right monitor are LB enabled. The middle won't cooperate no matter what I've tried.
> Any ideas?


Try swapping the DVI cables (but do not unplug power) between two monitors, without disconnecting power. Reconnect DVI cables. Reboot. What happens? Does LightBoost move with the DVI swap, or stay with the panels?


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Try swapping the DVI cables (but do not unplug power) between two monitors, without disconnecting power. Reconnect DVI cables. Reboot. What happens? Does LightBoost move with the DVI swap, or stay with the panels?


I'll test this and post my results.


----------



## jderbs

So it was actually me making an error. When I was copying and pasting in CRU I thought the edited monitor name would get carried over. That's not the case so after messing around with it for a few hours I finally re enabled everything on my nvidia rig on all 3 monitors. Just swapped it over to my ATI rig and got the left and middle monitors working. The right monitor still does not enable regardless of going through CRU a half dozen times now.

I can live with the left and middle being LB enabled on the ATI cards as it's good enough. My only concern is matching the colors as best as possible is probably going to be a PITA.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jderbs*
> 
> So it was actually me making an error. When I was copying and pasting in CRU I thought the edited monitor name would get carried over. That's not the case so after messing around with it for a few hours I finally re enabled everything on my nvidia rig on all 3 monitors. Just swapped it over to my ATI rig and got the left and middle monitors working. The right monitor still does not enable regardless of going through CRU a half dozen times now.
> 
> I can live with the left and middle being LB enabled on the ATI cards as it's good enough. My only concern is matching the colors as best as possible is probably going to be a PITA.


Strange. Hopefully a solution comes up for fixing this strange deficiency.
Are the cables in their original positions as the first time around?


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Strange. Hopefully a solution comes up for fixing this strange deficiency.
> Are the cables in their original positions as the first time around?


That's the thing... my nvidia cards are all DVI. To use eyefinity one has to use displayport. Strangely enough the one I switch cables for was the middle screen and that still has LB enabled.


----------



## Art Vanelay

I've been trying to get this hack to work with my new VG248QE. Custom resolution utility doesn't allow me to add in a 144hz mode when I use it, so I'm stuck at 120hz when I enable light boost. I also can't seem to use Nvidia's custom resolution menu, as it doesn't allow me to enable light boost when I set it to 144hz through there.


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I've been trying to get this hack to work with my new VG248QE. Custom resolution utility doesn't allow me to add in a 144hz mode when I use it, so I'm stuck at 120hz when I enable light boost. I also can't seem to use Nvidia's custom resolution menu, as it doesn't allow me to enable light boost when I set it to 144hz through there.


You can't use lightboost with 144hz... it has to be 120hz.

120hz lightboost > 144hz without it


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I've been trying to get this hack to work with my new VG248QE. Custom resolution utility doesn't allow me to add in a 144hz mode when I use it, so I'm stuck at 120hz when I enable light boost. I also can't seem to use Nvidia's custom resolution menu, as it doesn't allow me to enable light boost when I set it to 144hz through there.


LightBoost is not supported at 144Hz -- only 100Hz through 120Hz. Besides, although 144Hz slightly less input lag, it has slightly more motion blur than all LightBoost modes (even 100fps @ 100Hz LightBoost has less motion blur).

It has less motion blur for the same reason CRT [email protected] has had less motion blur than regular LCD [email protected]: The sample-and-hold effect.

That said, if you want 144Hz non-LightBoost, you can. Use "Reduced" timings, not "Auto", when you add back the 144Hz either via nVidia Custom Resolution or via ToastyX Custom Resolution. That way you can simply switch between 120Hz / 144Hz to turn on/off LightBoost.


----------



## mdrejhon

There's now a new Motion Blur Comparision: 60Hz vs 120Hz vs LightBoost:
Quote:


> These photographs compare motion blur during 60Hz vs 120Hz, as well as with the LightBoost strobe backlight enabled. All images below are captured from the same ASUS VG278H computer monitor. These demonstrates differences in perceived motion blur caused by the sample-and-hold effect.
> 
> These UFO objects were moving horizontally at 960 pixels per second an ASUS VG278H LCD, moving at a frame rate matching refresh rate, and captured using a pursuit camera using a 1/30second camera exposure (exposing multiple refreshes into the same image).
> 
> *60 Hz Refresh rate:*
> _Each refresh is displayed continuously for a full 1/60 second (16.7ms)_
> 
> 
> *120 Hz Refresh rate:*
> _Each refresh is displayed continuously for a full 1/120 second (8.3ms)
> This creates 50% less motion blur._
> 
> 
> *120 Hz LightBoost:*
> _The backlight is strobed briefly, once per refresh, eliminating sample-and-hold.
> This has 85% to 92% less motion blur than 60Hz, depending on the LightBoost OSD setting._
> 
> 
> At [email protected], a 1/30second camera exposure captures 4 refreshes. All 4 refreshes are stacked on each other, because the pursuit camera is moving in sync with the [email protected] moving object at a 1/30second camera exposure. The brief backlight flash prevents tracking-based motion blur.
> 
> There is extremely little leftover ghosting caused by pixel transitions (virtually invisible to the human eye), since nearly all (>99%+) pixel transition ghosting & overdrive artifacts are kept unseen by the human eye, while the backlight is turned off between refreshes. The backlight strobe flash length, measured to be 1.5ms by TFT Central, is more than 90% shorter than a 60Hz refresh (16.7ms). The LightBoost 10% setting uses 1.5ms strobe flashes, while the LightBoost 100% setting uses 2.4ms strobe flashes. This is still greatly shorter than even a 120Hz refresh (8.3ms)! As a result, *motion clarity on a LightBoost monitor is comparable to a CRT display*.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jderbs*
> 
> You can't use lightboost with 144hz... it has to be 120hz.
> 
> 120hz lightboost > 144hz without it


Yeah, 120Hz lightboost looks a lot better than 144Hz. I guess I'll set it to that; I only got the 144hz one because it was the cheapest 120hz+ monitor I could find.

Is there any danger in using this long term? Also, is there any way to fix the weird color?


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Yeah, 120Hz lightboost looks a lot better than 144Hz. I guess I'll set it to that; I only got the 144hz one because it was the cheapest 120hz+ monitor I could find.
> 
> Is there any danger in using this long term? Also, is there any way to fix the weird color?


There are ICC profiles somewhere in this thread you can try. Personally I have a spyder4elite to calibrate my monitors. You should try the different profiles here and see what works.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Is there any danger in using this long term? Also, is there any way to fix the weird color?


Some (not all) LightBoost monitors are badly calibrated in LightBoost mode. Usually crimson. Presumably to compensate for the green color of 3D Vision glasses. This is a sad thing for manufacturers to do, and we can't adjust LightBoost color via monitor menus. Hopefully they stop this trend.

To fix this, you need to re-calibrate color using nVidia Control Panel. And if you want to force the color fix into video games, you need a utility such as cpkeeper. Google "XL2411T LightBoost crimson fix" for some example numbers to play with.

A Spyder4 or i1 Pro, is much easier though. Put the sensor on the screen, click a button, and your picture automatically adjusts to correct color.


----------



## CallsignVega

I prefer the NVIDIA control panel color tweaking as that sticks in games and most games disregard .icc profiles.


----------



## shedokan

You still use the same values Vega?

32 47
52 52
47 47
?

How to add 144Hz non LB? So I acn just choose 144Hz in monitor settings and get 144Hz non LB? I dont see "Reduced timings" in CRU and in NVIDIA theres Reduced CVT something that gives some weird dots on the screen if using 144hz with LB


----------



## Falkentyne

cru-1.0.zip 344k .zip file
Just use the lightboost.bin file (that should be available as an attachment somewhere here, Mark's blog or on hardforum's LB thread) to have the lightboost resolutions all enabled without having to change other stuff.

As far as "LCD reduced", which you need when re-adding a 144 hz (non lightboost only ) refresh rate, when you deleted all of the other ones (which happens when you inport lightboost.bin)

Make sure you are using the lastest CRU.exe. It should be CRU 1.0. There were beta versions before that. Previous versions of Cru do NOT have "LCD reduced" as an option.
Under 'detailed resolutions" under the three lightboost resolutions added by importing 'lightboost.bin", you would click "add->LCD Reduced" and enter 1920x1080 and 144 hz and you're done.

I attached it here.


----------



## AlaskaFox

This hasnt been cracked for use on AMD cards yet has is? ive not found results on google.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Just use the lightboost.bin file (that should be available as an attachment somewhere here, Mark's blog or on hardforum's LB thread) to have the lightboost resolutions all enabled without having to change other stuff.
> 
> As far as "LCD reduced"
> Make sure you are using the lastest CRU.exe. It should be CRU 1.0. There were beta versions before that. Previous versions of Cru do NOT have "LCD reduced" as an option.
> Under 'detailed resolutions" under the three lightboost resolutions added by importing 'lightboost.bin", you would click "add->LCD Reduced" and enter 1920x1080 and 144 hz and you're done.


I was using CRU 1.0 and the custom resolutions don't show up. It turns out that you can't use light boost at 144hz, so it doesn't matter.


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlaskaFox*
> 
> This hasnt been cracked for use on AMD cards yet has is? ive not found results on google.


You need access to an nvidia card to enable it and then the monitors remember it and re-enable once you do it on your ATI machine. I just did it successfully with 2/3 of my monitors.


----------



## Falkentyne

Yes but it's still nice to go back to 144 hz and regain the color calibrations through the OSD, when you're not gaming.
The lightboost.bin file deletes all of the other resolutions and timings except 100, 110 and 120hz lightboost. Some people wanted 144 hz non lightboost back as an option (you can NOT have 120 hz nonlightboost+lightboost at the same time btw), so it's a simple matter if just choosing new LCD Reduced->144 hz) under detail resolutions. (note you can only have 4 at maximum).


----------



## AlaskaFox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jderbs*
> 
> You need access to an nvidia card to enable it and then the monitors remember it and re-enable once you do it on your ATI machine. I just did it successfully with 2/3 of my monitors.


does the nvidia card have to be a newish generation? i have an old one kickin around that i used to use to gain access to 2 monitors (ghetto)


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlaskaFox*
> 
> does the nvidia card have to be a newish generation? i have an old one kickin around that i used to use to gain access to 2 monitors (ghetto)


I think as long as you can go through the enabling 3d setup in the drivers you're fine.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Yes but it's still nice to go back to 144 hz and regain the color calibrations through the OSD, when you're not gaming.
> The lightboost.bin file deletes all of the other resolutions and timings except 100, 110 and 120hz lightboost. Some people wanted 144 hz non lightboost back as an option (you can NOT have 120 hz nonlightboost+lightboost at the same time btw), so it's a simple matter if just choosing new LCD Reduced->144 hz) under detail resolutions. (note you can only have 4 at maximum).


Yeah, getting rid of the broken color of lightboost was nice. Nvidia's custom resolution utility actually worked to add 144hz, unlike the third party one.


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Strange. Hopefully a solution comes up for fixing this strange deficiency.
> Are the cables in their original positions as the first time around?


just FYI I fixed it simply by plugging only that monitor into my nvidia machine and setting it up again (took 5 min) and now it works. LB on 3 monitors on AMD!


----------



## AlaskaFox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jderbs*
> 
> just FYI I fixed it simply by plugging only that monitor into my nvidia machine and setting it up again (took 5 min) and now it works. LB on 3 monitors on AMD!


so i could plug it into an nvidia machine, turn on lightboost, and move it back to my ati machine with the monitor "remembering" that lightboost was on?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlaskaFox*
> 
> so i could plug it into an nvidia machine, turn on lightboost, and move it back to my ati machine with the monitor "remembering" that lightboost was on?


Could you also just buy a GT 210 and do it with that?


----------



## AlaskaFox

why would i spent 60$ on a new video card i will likely never ever use when i could do it for free? i already have a gt9400


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlaskaFox*
> 
> why would i spent 60$ on a new video card i will likely never ever use when i could do it for free? i already have a gt9400


You can get them really cheap on sale. I just meant putting any cheap Nvidia card in a free slot on your motherboard.


----------



## AlaskaFox

which i could still do if nessisary with the other card, just i would preffer not to take it out if i dont have to (a my GF uses it alot and b) its a pain to do.


----------



## shedokan

Wow had a scary moment yesterday, this kind of stuff happen only when using LB :/

Was playing cs go the screen went black totally and didnt return I couldn't even press the power button on the monitor so after 10sec of black screen I rsed the pc since I paniced and it was normal again.. What the hell


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> Wow had a scary moment yesterday, this kind of stuff happen only when using LB :/
> 
> Was playing cs go the screen went black totally and didnt return I couldn't even press the power button on the monitor so after 10sec of black screen I rsed the pc since I paniced and it was normal again.. What the hell


What happens to me sometimes is the screen goes black and I hear a sound like when you disconnect a USB device, the screen only stays dark for like three seconds then it goes back to normal.


----------



## shedokan

Yeah but what I described above happened for the first time, it didnt go back normal after a sec which was scary..

Mark said its caused by the 3D mode when trying to sync or smth but what I said above isn't tolerable if it happens to me again


----------



## Art Vanelay

Since I have enabled this lightboost hack, steam has had this weird banding effect on black and grey surfaces, like the color depth wasn't enough. Does anyone know how to fix this? I fixed it once by setting the color depth to 32 bit (it was set to 16 strangely), but now it's happening at 32 bit.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> Yeah but what I described above happened for the first time, it didnt go back normal after a sec which was scary..
> Mark said its caused by the 3D mode when trying to sync or smth but what I said above isn't tolerable if it happens to me again


No, it is caused by the monitor INF file.

I am told this problem goes away if when uninstalling the INF file (go back to generic PnP monitor), and then following the ToastyX LightBoost.bin method. This easier method of enabling LightBoost is going to gradually replace the LightBoost HOWTO. Much safer.


----------



## shedokan

I have Generic PnP monitor ever since I made a clean install of OS and never installed any INF file


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> I have Generic PnP monitor ever since I made a clean install of OS and never installed any INF file


Which nVidia drivers are you using, and which method of LightBoost enable did you use?


----------



## shedokan

Toastyx, always latest drivers so now its 320


----------



## AlaskaFox

k so how am i suppsed to go about tricking my monitor into using lightboost with an amd card? i can enable it with my 9400 but i cant get it to stay.


----------



## Falkentyne

Once it's enabled once (without the monitor being unplugged), all you have to do is import the lightboost.bin file into CRU 1.0, to force the three lightboost resolutions, on the AMD card. Then it will work until the monitor is unplugged (powering off with the power button isn't the same as an unplug).

I posted the cru attachment with the bin file as a zip earlier, but it's available elsewhere, too.


----------



## AlaskaFox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Once it's enabled once (without the monitor being unplugged), all you have to do is import the lightboost.bin file into CRU 1.0, to force the three lightboost resolutions, on the AMD card. Then it will work until the monitor is unplugged (powering off with the power button isn't the same as an unplug).
> 
> I posted the cru attachment with the bin file as a zip earlier, but it's available elsewhere, too.


i tried that but... ok here are some more details

i tried it first by using the NV GPU in PCI 1, amd disconnected.
i was able to get lightboost working

as soon as i powered down and installed the AMD card, lightboost was disabled (did not unplug monitor)
i tried doing it with the NV GPU in the 2nd pci and the amd on the first pci, display attached to the AMD.

does not allow me to open NVIDIA controll panel nor enable lightboost.

i can enable 3d when plugging the monitor into the nvidia card (2nd pci) but not lightboost.

with 2 monitors (one on AMD, one on NVIDIA) i can not enable 3d or lightboost unless the 144hz monitor is on the nvidia card.


----------



## socketus

yah, thats when you switch the res from 144 to 120hz


----------



## AlaskaFox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *socketus*
> 
> yah, thats when you switch the res from 144 to 120hz


i did that too. it just forgets about lightboost as soon as the dvi plug is disconnected from the NVIDIA GPU

i want to figure this out soo bad! i feel as if im missing out by not having it for gaming.


----------



## AlaskaFox

Does no one have any input for me?

ive attempted both meathods of hacking lightboost but with partial/no sucssess.

i have a radeon 7850 as my main gpu
i have a gt 9400 at my disposal for hacking purpouses
2 PCIE lanes, x16, x4
monitor 1 (main) asus vg248qe 144hz((connected via dvi-D)); monitor 2 (second) vga 60hz dell low res . ((dvi->vga adapter used))

what driver versions do people use to enable lightboost for AMD?
IS IT EVEN ACTUALY POSSIBLE? Ive only heared here that it can be done, but there are no guides anywhere that i can find giving step by step directions for AMD users.


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlaskaFox*
> 
> Does no one have any input for me?
> 
> ive attempted both meathods of hacking lightboost but with partial/no sucssess.
> 
> i have a radeon 7850 as my main gpu
> i have a gt 9400 at my disposal for hacking purpouses
> 2 PCIE lanes, x16, x4
> monitor 1 (main) asus vg248qe 144hz((connected via dvi-D)); monitor 2 (second) vga 60hz dell low res . ((dvi->vga adapter used))
> 
> what driver versions do people use to enable lightboost for AMD?
> IS IT EVEN ACTUALY POSSIBLE? Ive only heared here that it can be done, but there are no guides anywhere that i can find giving step by step directions for AMD users.


I just did it on my surround setup, so yes it's possible. My advice is to start COMPLETELY over. I'd also just remove the ATI card completely and start from there. Disconnect your 2nd monitor and follow the Toasty/Cru method word for word and see if you can get it working.

WHEN you get it working on the nvidia card uninstall that card and plop in the ATI card. Use CRU to set everything up again and your monitor should remember that it's 3D enabled once set to the correct resolution.

And don't be afraid to reboot... I think I rebooted every time I made a change in CRU.


----------



## hamzatm

Just check, when you have the Nvidia installed try rebooting and see if lightboost sticks.

That's how you can ensure you have it set up correctly in the first place before messing about with ATI cards or switching or anything.


----------



## AlaskaFox

as i said before i was able to get it working just fine but only as long as the nvidia card is in the first pci.
When i try to remove the video card the lightboost tab on my monitor OSD is grey and i cant enable it.

i can try again later and see if i can get it working by chance... but im unsure that the result will be any different.


----------



## AlaskaFox

Ok so i found out my problem was that when i set it up then installed my amd card, CRU was creating a new resolution/monitor profile so i had to import the lightboost.bin file 2x and also edit the product ID 2x.

i chose 100hz by the way

new problem.

using pixperan as a test, i first noticed i was only getting 50 fps. it looked like poo.

i rebooted, started it again and it was 100fps as proper. splendid, it looks great








i launch crysis 3 to see how it looks in game. Somehow im taking a performance hit. With all low settings i can easily get 110 fps, but i was only reaching 45 max!

i shut down the game and launched pixperan again, it was again capping at 50 fps..

((Edit, how very odd))

Turns out my GPU is suddenly operating at half capacity a few minutes after boot ups.
im also getting tiny scattering red pixels across my screen


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Im gonna be getting BenQ XL2420T in the next 2 days and I was thinking of doing this I just wanted to ask

Have any of you done the lightboost on the BenQ XL2420T?

Are there any serious problems that can come up when doing the hack?

Can it damage the monitor or graphics card?

Thanks


----------



## Side1Bu2Rnz9

Quick question... I understand that I can use a NVidia card to trick the my ASUS VG248QE to enable lightboost. I can get my hands on a very old NVidia card, but it's from my parents older computer so I can't keep it in case my monitor is unplugged or looses power (power outage). Has there been anyone able to work towards a ATI work around other than this quick fix? If so what is the process of this? Also is it advised to just swap my ATI with my NVidia card and enable lightboost then swap back or can I have both cards in my motherboard at the same time and just swap plugs for the DVI cable? Thanks


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Im gonna be getting BenQ XL2420T in the next 2 days and I was thinking of doing this I just wanted to ask
> 
> Have any of you done the lightboost on the BenQ XL2420T?
> 
> Are there any serious problems that can come up when doing the hack?
> 
> Can it damage the monitor or graphics card?
> 
> Thanks


It's not as good as the XL2411T or the VG248QE for lightboost and it doesn't benefit as much. It may have better colours than those two monitors but we don't really know if there's a significant difference.

It doesn't damage the monitor or the graphics card and there are no serious problems.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> It's not as good as the XL2411T or the VG248QE for lightboost and it doesn't benefit as much. It may have better colours than those two monitors but we don't really know if there's a significant difference.
> 
> It doesn't damage the monitor or the graphics card and there are no serious problems.


In Aus we dont have the XL2411T yet, dunno when were getting it either







, how do you mean doesnt benefit much? is it already fast enough or something?

No damage... sounds good to me


----------



## hamzatm

Yep, I'm not sure exactly but multiple people with the XL2420 have reported that there isn't much difference before and after enabling lightboost.

Either lightboost on it isn't that great, or it is pretty fast already and lightboost doesn't make much difference.

(I know that the final lightboost result isn't as good as the VG24QE/XL2411T though)


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Yep, I'm not sure exactly but multiple people with the XL2420 have reported that there isn't much difference before and after enabling lightboost.
> 
> Either lightboost on it isn't that great, or it is pretty fast already and lightboost doesn't make much difference.
> 
> (I know that the final lightboost result isn't as good as the VG24QE/XL2411T though)


Hmm this is very interesting I've been torn between the VG24QE and XL2420T for the last week and im still not 100% sure







gonna order one this week tho

So tempted to just go an old CRT and be done with it







seeing thats really the lag input im after or should i say lack there of


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Hmm this is very interesting I've been torn between the VG24QE and XL2420T for the last week and im still not 100% sure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gonna order one this week tho
> 
> So tempted to just go an old CRT and be done with it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> seeing thats really the lag input im after or should i say lack there of


If you can get the VG248QE I see no reason to get the XL2420T. The asus is newer, and has a faster screen that is better at lightboost and closer to CRTs. No question unless you want the 3D vision pack (its included standard with the XL2420)


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> If you can get the VG248QE I see no reason to get the XL2420T. The asus is newer, and has a faster screen that is better at lightboost and closer to CRTs. No question unless you want the 3D vision pack (its included standard with the XL2420)


I can get both lol the Asus is just $100 more but thats not a problem really as for 3D... well I cant see it anyway







so thats no problem at all









How badly washed out are the colours with lightboost on the Asus? I've gone a bit colour nutty since getting IPS monitors









Thanks


----------



## hamzatm

Hmm if you're using IPS regularly it will probably be a shock at first.

You can fix the issues (or at least make it somewhat better) by messing about with nvidia control panel gamma settings or calibration profiles. If you use the Asus exclusively for a few days you will soon forget about the colour problems though.

For me, I was using IPS when I switched to lightboost. The colour difference was horrible and it always annoyed me. Then I bought one of the Korean overclockable PLS monitors (QNIX), and the colours were amazing. But it is only after experiencing lightboost that you realise how horrible the blurriness on normal IPS is. I couldn't stand the blurry QNIX, so I went back to lightboost and now I fully and truly appreciate the amazing clarity and awesomeness of this monitor, and truly couldn't care less about colours.

You just have to know for yourself what you truly value, with me its motion clarity over colour improvements. I don't mind the washed out colours at all (especially when gaming you don't notice washed out colours. The only thing you notice is that you can't see as well if your game has really dark dark scenes)


----------



## Arc0s

I agree 100% with hamzatm, I have the vg248qe and the Qnix; while the Qnix looks stunning at 1440p and with beautiful colors. There is no way I can go back to gaming in such a blurry mess. So I use the Asus for gaming and the Qnix for everything else. Also I had the Benq 2420 which I sold to get the Asus and I recommend the Asus over the Benq, better motion clarity (the benq suffers from a halo effect, check youtube for some vids on it) and once calibrated the Asus has equal if not better colors.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Hmm if you're using IPS regularly it will probably be a shock at first.
> 
> You can fix the issues (or at least make it somewhat better) by messing about with nvidia control panel gamma settings or calibration profiles. If you use the Asus exclusively for a few days you will soon forget about the colour problems though.
> 
> For me, I was using IPS when I switched to lightboost. The colour difference was horrible and it always annoyed me. Then I bought one of the Korean overclockable PLS monitors (QNIX), and the colours were amazing. But it is only after experiencing lightboost that you realise how horrible the blurriness on normal IPS is. I couldn't stand the blurry QNIX, so I went back to lightboost and now I fully and truly appreciate the amazing clarity and awesomeness of this monitor, and truly couldn't care less about colours.
> 
> You just have to know for yourself what you truly value, with me its motion clarity over colour improvements. I don't mind the washed out colours at all (especially when gaming you don't notice washed out colours. The only thing you notice is that you can't see as well if your game has really dark dark scenes)


I only have IPS I havent used TN in I think 2 years? lol







but even looking at my tv compared to my Dells its like um...














when I played my xbox tho the colours didnt bother me once i got into the game









I might calibrate the screen a bit just to get the colours good enough then after that meh who cares







, I'll be using it alot seeing I play BF3 with friends every night anyway and thats the reason I want a 120Hz monitor







. the 8ms lag of the Dell is really hard to play on sometimes









I was originally thinking an Overlord Tempest but way to expensive and then I heard they blur a bit on 120Hz. so that turned me off the IPS 120Hz... that and the price









Well the motion clarity compared to what I have now will be a god send even tho I cant see the motion blur i know its there and Im always compensating for it. Dark scenes... like Splinter Cell games?







Im use to playing really dark games on pretty much 0 brightness







I like to challenge myself in single player









Looks like I might be getting the Asus monitor now







thats good tho it'll match the dual Asus PA248Q that I plan to get to replace my Dells


----------



## forthedisplay

How does the Acer HN274HBbmiid work with this? I know the tweak works, but I was wondering if anybody has any information about any artifacts and such.

I saw a deal for this monitor, and bundled with the 3D vision 2 glasses it'd end up being cheaper than XL2411T... which is tempting. It's used, but from a reputable retailer.


----------



## Shogon

Managed to get my 3 Asus Vg248QEs in Portrait Lightboost mode







All I can say is









Thank you both Vega and mdrejhon for the guides to make this stuff happen!!


----------



## AlaskaFox

Well my persistance with lightboost on my AMD platform paid off with sucsess.

my red pixelated artifacts went away after i ONCE AGAIN reset everything and started from scratch.

here are the steps i took

- with amd card, reset all.exe (comes with cru)

-reboot, launch cru

-find monitor, replace with new ID (( ACI27F8 ))

-shut down, install nvidia card, boot

-launch cru

-find monitor, replace with bogus ID

-import lightboost resolutions .bin file

-reboot , check to make sure lightboost works on nvidia card

-shut down, install amd card, boot

-check to make sure lightboost resolution profiles show up in CCC

-done


----------



## douglatins

the important should also have
nvidia card.


----------



## ovawe

Maybe us AMD owners should pass on this monitor and be vocal about it, to encourage Asus to come out with a universal strobing backlight 144 Hz monitor that's not restricted to Nvidia light boost.


----------



## hatlesschimp

How do i get lightboost to work in portrait? Thanks


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> How do i get lightboost to work in portrait? Thanks


The easiest method I find to do is only have 1 hooked up to your PC at a time and activate each monitor individually. After they've all been LB enabled setup eyefinity and they SHOULD all keep the 3D mode. Trying to do it with all 3 monitors at once can be frustrating where only 1 or 2 of them will activate LB properly.

I did this method on my old PC and just yesterday with ATI cards. I plugged one monitor at a time into my old nvidia comp and after getting them activated swapped them back with no issues to my ATI rig.


----------



## l88bastar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogon*
> 
> Managed to get my 3 Asus Vg248QEs in Portrait Lightboost mode
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All I can say is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you both Vega and mdrejhon for the guides to make this stuff happen!!


Welcome to club Tripple B


----------



## hatlesschimp

I still don't know how to get nvidia to activate lightboost in portrait mode.


----------



## Papadope

Why do these companies not enable this by default? This could be a selling feature for them. The hardware aspect of it is not tied to nvidia is it? I would really like to try this on my 2420TX but im not going to try and work around nvidia to get it to work with my AMD card...

Edit:
Hmm, I don't know about the negatives. It works best at 120fps/120hz. What happens if you drop down to 80fps in a game. Will there be an adverse affect? A noticeable back-light flicker similar to crt's for those who are sensitive to it?

I'm definitely interested, I just don't get why it's a hack. Why would these companies not implement it, there's got to be a reason.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

got my Asus VG248QE gonna do this on it in a little bit







thought I should ask toastyx's way is the best isnt it?

Thanks


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Papadope*
> 
> Edit:
> Hmm, I don't know about the negatives. It works best at 120fps/120hz. What happens if you drop down to 80fps in a game. Will there be an adverse affect? A noticeable back-light flicker similar to crt's for those who are sensitive to it?


I've been running it at 60 FPS before. It doesn't flicker noticably.
Quote:


> I'm definitely interested, I just don't get why it's a hack. Why would these companies not implement it, there's got to be a reason.


They probably never thought about it. Also, the color quality is terrible when you run lightboost.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> got my Asus VG248QE gonna do this on it in a little bit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thought I should ask toastyx's way is the best isnt it?
> 
> Thanks


ToastyX's way is by far the best and safest.


----------



## hatlesschimp

Please can someone explain how to run light boost with monitors that are in portrait surround mode.
I'm running win7 and 320.18 drivers.

Thanks people's.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> ToastyX's way is by far the best and safest.


Ah ok cool







I just started to do it then I realized I didnt have the 3D part of the nVidia drivers installed









Edit Got lightboost up and running now to try some BF3


----------



## hamzatm

You'll need over 100fps minimum in BF3 to get the effect









Otherwise everything jerks


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> You'll need over 100fps minimum in BF3 to get the effect
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Otherwise everything jerks


lol yeah I worked that one out







if I grab another 670 that should help shouldnt it? or even a 780... maybe


----------



## XT-107

dunno if it just placebo or not , but this thing is working with my monitor


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> Please can someone explain how to run light boost with monitors that are in portrait surround mode.
> I'm running win7 and 320.18 drivers.
> 
> Thanks people's.


I explained to you how I did it a few pages ago. Can you get them enabled as landscape? If so, when you switch to portrait the monitor should still remember that it's in LB mode and will stay that way. I tried portrait once and didn't like it because of the large bezels and height, but LB was enabled.


----------



## hatlesschimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jderbs*
> 
> I explained to you how I did it a few pages ago. Can you get them enabled as landscape? If so, when you switch to portrait the monitor should still remember that it's in LB mode and will stay that way. I tried portrait once and didn't like it because of the large bezels and height, but LB was enabled.


So your saying in NVIDIA Control Panel

Set up stereo 3d - done

Select when the display is in 3D mode - Always(done) or When 3D program running or 3d full screen program.

Basically i just flipped back from portrait mode to landscape and i had to re check the 3d stereo enabled box. then it went to the preset of always on.

then i just flip my monitors back to portrait in the setting and i should be in lightboost mode still?

I dont know im lost. I think i understand how to activate it in lanscape surround but portrait wont allow me to sellect the option unless there is something on the monitor its self that i have to do?

thanks for your continued help!


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> So your saying in NVIDIA Control Panel
> 
> Set up stereo 3d - done
> 
> Select when the display is in 3D mode - Always(done) or When 3D program running or 3d full screen program.
> 
> Basically i just flipped back from portrait mode to landscape and i had to re check the 3d stereo enabled box. then it went to the preset of always on.
> 
> then i just flip my monitors back to portrait in the setting and i should be in lightboost mode still?
> 
> I dont know im lost. I think i understand how to activate it in lanscape surround but portrait wont allow me to sellect the option unless there is something on the monitor its self that i have to do?
> 
> thanks for your continued help!


Once LB is enabled it will continue to work as long as the monitor isn't changed from 100, 110, or 120 hz (or unplugged from power). What method are you using to enable it? Follow these instructions if you haven't already and this will get you setup. 3D doesn't have to be enabled except for the initial setup for the monitors to think they're in 3D mode.

http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost/comment-page-2/#comment-328

Once you get LB enabled per monitor, you can change it to surround portrait and it shouldn't matter as long as LB is on and you haven't changed the HZ setting.

EDIT: And when doing it initially I recommend doing it 1 monitor at a time and restarting after each CRU change. I had problems when not doing it that way.


----------



## hatlesschimp

Thanks buddy.

Its 6am here now im off to bed i guess ill try it tomorrow sometime i mean today sometime LOL.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

So I set up my Asus VG248QE lastnight with lightboost and when I got up this morning and turned my rig on lightboost was disabled







is that normal or did i stuff something up when I did it? it is set as my second monitor out of the 3 could that be why?

Thanks


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> then i just flip my monitors back to portrait in the setting and i should be in lightboost mode still?


LightBoost is a 2-step activation behavior in monitors.

(1) LightBoost monitors need a first-time unlock.
This is because nVidia has required LightBoost to be a locked feature in monitors, so AMD can't use it.
(2) Once it's unlocked, it's easy to re-enable using a custom resolution.
Don't unplug your monitor from power, or you have to follow (1) again.

So if LightBoost disappears when you rotate to portrait, don't worry -- you've successfully done step (1) by the setup you have already done. What you need to do is re-enable LightBoost easily with (2) by installing the ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility, and adding the LightBoost-compatible mode back. (Make sure that the Vertical Total is 1149, if you're adding the custom resolution).


----------



## jjpjimmy

I used the lightboost.bin provided at this website...

http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost/comment-page-2/#comment-328

It doesn't contain the non-LB 144hz resolution settings. Can I get the values? I tried copying in the 60hz values and changing the refresh rate to 144 but that didn't seem to work.

Edit: found it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Under 'detailed resolutions" under the three lightboost resolutions added by importing 'lightboost.bin", you would click "add->LCD Reduced" and enter 1920x1080 and 144 hz and you're done.


Thanks!


----------



## hatlesschimp

Here is the video about how to debezel and mount the VG248QE Monitors in Portrait surround/Eyefinity

Cheers and Enjoy!


----------



## mdrejhon

Oh, that's great!
That one deserves its very own thread. It's useful with and without LightBoost.


----------



## hatlesschimp

Thanks Mark!

If it wasn't for you and CallSignVega i would have never tried this setup!


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> Here is the video about how to debezel and mount the VG248QE Monitors in Portrait surround/Eyefinity
> 
> Cheers and Enjoy!


Looks good, did you get LB working in portrait Surround? If not here are my directions:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1039773391&postcount=1212


----------



## hatlesschimp

Not yet. Ive just been enjoying them as is. I was thinking of removing the matte film but I'm holding off at the moment. Thanks for your help. I put a credit for you at the end of the vid.


----------



## mdrejhon

I've created a new graph to compare the amount of motion blur between different common LightBoost and non-LightBoost modes:



It's now added to PHOTOS: 60Hz vs 120Hz vs LightBoost.
It shows that even the worst 100Hz LightBoost mode has far less motion blur than 144Hz non-LightBoost.

It also shows that the LightBoost % setting (via monitor OSD) is incremental compared to turning on/off LightBoost.


----------



## mdrejhon

UPDATE:

*Better LightBoost Color*

Vega and several other people have messaged to tell me that the new Geforce driver version *320.18* (nVidia website) has *greatly improved LightBoost color quality* on ASUS VG248QE and BENQ XL2411T monitors. It is not as good color as 144Hz, but much closer than before.


----------



## mdrejhon

UPDATE:

*Better LightBoost Color*

CallSignVega and several other people have messaged to tell me that the new Geforce driver version *320.18* (nVidia website) has *greatly improved LightBoost color quality* on ASUS VG248QE (and maybe BENQ XL2411T monitors). It is not as good color as 144Hz, but much closer than before.

NOTE: For those who don't know LightBoost, see the LightBoost thread.


----------



## hatlesschimp

Good work!!!


----------



## socketus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> UPDATE:
> 
> *Better LightBoost Color*
> 
> Vega and several other people have messaged to tell me that the new Geforce driver version *320.18* (nVidia website) has *greatly improved LightBoost color quality* on ASUS VG248QE and BENQ XL2411T monitors. It is not as good color as 144Hz, but much closer than before.


Yah, but that driver is playing havoc with BF3 for a lot of people, myself included. Had to rollback a couple of drivers. So ...


----------



## mdrejhon

I guess we shall have to wait until these drivers are fixed -- but it's good news that nVidia is at least paying a little more attention to LightBoost calibration now. Let's hope this is a trend!


----------



## socketus

ab-so-ROOT-lee !!


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> UPDATE:
> 
> *Better LightBoost Color*
> 
> Vega and several other people have messaged to tell me that the new Geforce driver version *320.18* (nVidia website) has *greatly improved LightBoost color quality* on ASUS VG248QE and BENQ XL2411T monitors. It is not as good color as 144Hz, but much closer than before.


Awesome. I was tired of the color looking like garbage on my monitor.


----------



## nleksan

With all the problems associated with this driver, including the fact that it's KILLING CARDS like some kind of GPU Assassin, I would say that holding off on the driver update is a good idea... I'm sure that the color improvement will remain in future drivers, and hopefully these drivers will actually drive the cards (and not to suicide).


----------



## mdrejhon

CallSignVega and a few others reported an improvement in the picture on a different display than expected -- the XL2720T -- so I'm wondering what 320.18 is doing in this territory.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallSignVega*
> Ah yes I have tested this new driver, but on a side monitor XL2720T which now has far better picture quality than the VG248QE both in LB mode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The QE seems all faded and bleached out now with the BenQ looking far superior. The crimson tint is pretty much gone now, but the BenQ looks much more like a normal non-LB monitor side-by-side versus the Asus.


Same for my VG278H; my VG278H has comparatively excellent colors in LightBoost (about 80% as good as non-LightBoost), with contrast ratios approaching 700:1.
It is probably using a similiar panel as the XL2720T.

I'm wondering what's the jig is up for the VG248QE. Very, very strange.


----------



## mdrejhon

Hold the presses. The 320.18 drivers apparently have problems....
CallSignVega and a few others reported an improvement in the picture on a different display than expected -- the XL2720T -- so I'm wondering what 320.18 is doing in this territory.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallSignVega*
> Ah yes I have tested this new driver, but on a side monitor XL2720T which now has far better picture quality than the VG248QE both in LB mode.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The QE seems all faded and bleached out now with the BenQ looking far superior. The crimson tint is pretty much gone now, but the BenQ looks much more like a normal non-LB monitor side-by-side versus the Asus.


Same for my VG278H; my VG278H has comparatively excellent colors in LightBoost (about 80% as good as non-LightBoost), with contrast ratios approaching 700:1.
It is probably using a similiar panel as the XL2720T.

I'm wondering what's the jig is up for the VG248QE.


----------



## Bruennis

This driver gave me all sorts of problems... Worst release in a long while.


----------



## MenacingTuba

The VG248QE's lightboost image quality is significantly worse with the new drivers

http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i432/240hzTeslaStorm/drivercomparison.png


----------



## socketus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Hold the presses. The 320.18 drivers apparently have problems....
> CallSignVega and a few others reported an improvement in the picture on a different display than expected -- the XL2720T -- so I'm wondering what 320.18 is doing in this territory.
> Same for my VG278H; my VG278H has comparatively excellent colors in LightBoost (about 80% as good as non-LightBoost), with contrast ratios approaching 700:1.
> It is probably using a similiar panel as the XL2720T.
> 
> I'm wondering what's the jig is up for the VG248QE.


When you say the 320.18 drivers have problems, what are the problems with ? the LB on the Asus VG248QE ? or the aforesaid BF3 texture problems ?


----------



## amvnz

I remember trying this out a while ago. I didn't really notice much difference but I also didn't give it that much of a test as you are forced to use the 3D mode which looks HORRIBLE. Bad colours, gamma and brightness. This is on the Samsung 950d. Maybe I did it wrong though, the instructions say to put it on 3D mode, frame sequential (which is what you do for 3d gaming) but just play in 2D, and i did that and like I said, looks horrible.

EDIT: Tried it out again, it's dark even at 100% brightness BUT if you change the magic angle to Group View, then change contrast to 25, Red to 100, Green to 100, Blue to 85, it becomes bearable. It's still too dark for my liking though. It looks worse to me just browsing the web, scrolling up and down pages you can really notice the difference and looks better with motion blur. Just using the mouse alone feels really strange as well. Don't know it just feels weird and feels much better in normal 2D.


----------



## hatlesschimp

I have debezelled the *27" ASUS VG278H 3D Monitor* for those it might interest.
There are more photos and information *Here* and a video will be uploaded soon as well!


----------



## DeadLink

If someone could please, I would like to know who that uses lightboost and a GTX Titan(Single) what is your average FPS at the highest possible settings.


----------



## hatlesschimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeadLink*
> 
> If someone could please, I would like to know who that uses lightboost and a GTX Titan(Single) what is your average FPS at the highest possible settings.


so 1 titan and 1 1080p monitor + fps in which game?


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeadLink*
> 
> If someone could please, I would like to know who that uses lightboost and a GTX Titan(Single) what is your average FPS at the highest possible settings.


It's game to game, but this will get you started

http://www.techspot.com/review/644-nvidia-geforce-titan/page4.html
http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5402/evga-geforce-gtx-titan-6gb-superclocked-video-card-review/index.html
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6774/nvidias-geforce-gtx-titan-part-2-titans-performance-unveiled


----------



## mdrejhon

I wonder why it would improve the picture of some displays and not others.

Can anyone with a 3D emitter connected to a VG248QE report on whether the picture looks different, than when using an EDID override (making the VG248QE masquerade as a VG278H)?

It does show, in a way, nVidia has some control over the LightBoost picture. Let's hope that future drivers fix this, one way or another.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeadLink*
> 
> If someone could please, I would like to know who that uses lightboost and a GTX Titan(Single) what is your average FPS at the highest possible settings.


The million dollar question -- which game?

I'm able to get [email protected] in some older games such as Quake Live and Team Fortress 2 at maximum settings on a lowly Geforce GTX 680.
I can greatly exceed 200 frames per second on Quake Live if VSYNC is OFF.

However, newer games such as Crysis 3, will definitely push the limits at maximum settings. Sometimes [email protected] looks better than [email protected] as a result (especially if one likes Adaptive VSYNC or VSYNC ON -- which I use for solo gameplay, as the competitive input lag savings of VSYNC OFF is chiefly useful during online gameplay).


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *socketus*
> 
> When you say the 320.18 drivers have problems, what are the problems with ? the LB on the Asus VG248QE ? or the aforesaid BF3 texture problems ?


Both.

It's promising that 320.18 improved LightBoost color on some displays -- but it's concerning that it made the LightBoost picture worse on other displays. I think it's an "AVOID" until the drivers become mature.


----------



## shedokan

I don't understand these cool experts whining about LB colours, cool story bra

People who use LB for competitive play the motion clarity with high refresh rate > anything. Turn up the saturation no biggy


----------



## DeadLink

Battlefield 3 Specifically. Sorry for the tard question without something to base this off of lol.

The question again so I can be clear.

BF3, 1080P 120HZ Lightboost. Max Settings, Must be a single GTX Titan and Either 3570k/3770k.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> I don't understand these cool experts whining about LB colours, cool story bra
> 
> People who use LB for competitive play the motion clarity with high refresh rate > anything. Turn up the saturation no biggy


I am getting banding on black and gray colors when I play with lightboost. I don't know of a way to fix this, and it's really ugly.


----------



## MenacingTuba

I had the 3d emitter connected...I'll punish my eyes and try the edid trick later


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I am getting banding on black and gray colors when I play with lightboost. I don't know of a way to fix this, and it's really ugly.


Yes, with the latest drivers the QE picture quality in LB mode took a dive. Blacks are grey and everything is washed out.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Yes, with the latest drivers the QE picture quality in LB mode took a dive. Blacks are grey and everything is washed out.


I run it on 296.10, since I've had trouble with the 300 series drivers in the past. Which driver version appears to be best for lightboost?


----------



## Sadus

Just got a new 780gtx and VG278HE. With the 320.18 drivers, I'm not seeing any Stereoscopic 3D section in the NVidia Control panel at all. Monitor driver forced over to that unsigned .inf file, .reg file imported, rebooted several times, no luck. Only one I found in this thread so far with a similar issue had this problem when in Portrait mode, but I'm definitely in Landscape. I even disabled my second monitor completely thinking maybe since NVidia saw 1 3d and 1 non-3d monitor it was hiding that setting, but no luck. The monitor is set to 120hz even though it's a 144hz. What else could be keeping that area of the settings from showing up?


----------



## socketus

umm .. did you install the 3D driver ? I had been so locked into a clean custom install with my gtx580 build, I missed the 3d driver install compleatly first time around.


----------



## Sadus

Ah-hah I think that's going to be it, went to reinstall drivers and it shows 3d Vision Driver: Current Version - None. I do have "3d Vision Controller Driver" 320.18 already, but not "3d Vision Driver", weird.

I did install the new drivers before I had the 3d monitor hooked up, could have sworn I told it to install everything but I either messed that up or it wouldn't install the 3d driver til I had the monitor hooked up.

Yep that did it, awesome! Never used 120/144Hz before today either so this should be a nice thing to compare.


----------



## Robilar

I did the same thing. I have had 120hz monitors for awhile but never used 3d and as such never installed the drivers. I saw lightboost setting on the monitor itself but nothing in nvidia and realized I did not have the 3d drivers installed.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeadLink*
> 
> Battlefield 3 Specifically. Sorry for the tard question without something to base this off of lol.
> 
> The question again so I can be clear.
> 
> BF3, 1080P 120HZ Lightboost. Max Settings, Must be a single GTX Titan and Either 3570k/3770k.


Single Titan should be able to push BF3 to triple-digit average framerates, if you back off a little on some settings (e.g. don't use maximum AA). You will get occasional big framerate drops during busy moments, but a Titan will otherwise have a very strong LightBoost-benefitting effect in BF3.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robilar*
> 
> I did the same thing. I have had 120hz monitors for awhile but never used 3d and as such never installed the drivers. I saw lightboost setting on the monitor itself but nothing in nvidia and realized I did not have the 3d drivers installed.


Apparently, it also works if you only do it temporarily -- upgrade to 3D drivers, enable LightBoost -- downgrade to non-stereoscopic drivers, use ToastyX lightboost.bin method, and LightBoost still works.

It's because LightBoost activation is a two step method:
(1) nVidia vendor unlock. Monitors have LightBoost locked by default, to prevent AMD from taking advantage of LightBoost.
(2) Once nVidia vendor unlock is done, LightBoost is easily repeatedly re-enabled via nVidia Custom Resolution or via ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility. Just use a Vertical Total of 1149, and viola.

At least until you physically unplug the power of your monitor, then you have to do (1) again -- e.g. run nVidia 3D drivers because they unlock the LightBoost feature.

Having an nVidia 3D Vision emitter and 3D drivers, does both (1) and (2) automagically within drivers.
It's just simply a hassle if you don't own a 3D emitter, which is why you need to go through the "LightBoost hack" steps.
Fortunately, ToastyX makes it easy (lightboost.bin).


----------



## Robilar

A question though, why is my Asus monitor advertised as lightboost ready and yet requires a multi step hack process to enable the feature? The word ready implies plug and go to me...

Also, I am considering moving up to a 27" as I'm finding the 24" a bit small (getting old







).

Which would be the better option, the ASUS VG278HE

or the ASUS VG278H?

I know that the H has the built in emitter but it runs at 120hz (while the HE runs at 144hz) plus it's $60 more (not a deciding factor).


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MenacingTuba*
> 
> I had the 3d emitter connected...I'll punish my eyes and try the edid trick later


Actually, the EDID trick probably would not produce any improvement, because the 3D emitter would allow the nVidia drivers to know what vendor/model monitor is connected and load the correct LightBoost color profile. The EDID trick "lies" to the drivers about what monitor is connected, and might theoretically cause the drivers to to initialize the monitor with wrong colors.


----------



## tsunamipop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robilar*
> 
> A question though, why is my Asus monitor advertised as lightboost ready and yet requires a multi step hack process to enable the feature? The word ready implies plug and go to me...
> 
> Also, I am considering moving up to a 27" as I'm finding the 24" a bit small (getting old
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).
> 
> Which would be the better option, the ASUS VG278HE
> 
> or the ASUS VG278H?
> 
> I know that the H has the built in emitter but it runs at 120hz (while the HE runs at 144hz) plus it's $60 more (not a deciding factor).


lightboost was designed to be used in 3d mode. buy a vision kit and use 3d and you have your advertised lightboost. some folks have just found the benefits in 2d. this is why a hack is needed to enable the 3d tool (lightboost). until official support arrives of course.


----------



## socketus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robilar*
> 
> A question though, why is my Asus monitor advertised as lightboost ready and yet requires a multi step hack process to enable the feature? The word ready implies plug and go to me...
> 
> Also, I am considering moving up to a 27" as I'm finding the 24" a bit small (getting old
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).
> 
> Which would be the better option, the ASUS VG278HE
> 
> or the ASUS VG278H?
> 
> I know that the H has the built in emitter but it runs at 120hz (while the HE runs at 144hz) plus it's $60 more (not a deciding factor).


You might hold off on that particular upgrade to the Asus 27"er until this info gets sorted out.
Apparently, the BenQ 27" XL2720T monitor is showing much improved color than the Asus 24"er. But then again, as Vega posts on that same thread a few posts later, your mileage may vary.


----------



## Robilar

I thought the asus and the benq use the same panel?


----------



## socketus

I have no idea, check CallSignVega's posts in this thread, and his posts by Vega in the Hardforum link


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robilar*
> 
> A question though, why is my Asus monitor advertised as lightboost ready and yet requires a multi step hack process to enable the feature? The word ready implies plug and go to me...


That's because LightBoost was primarily designed for 3D Vision.
*nVidia force-bundled the motion blur elimination ability of LightBoost, with 3D Vision*, even though nVidia already knew it does eliminate motion blur (cite: Anandtech fall 2011 article). Not as many people cared as not everyone wanted 3D. The strobe backlight serves multiple purposes -- elimination of crosstalk between eyes and brighter 3D image through glasses because the backlight flashes are sync'd with shutter glasses. (cite: Anandtech, HardwareCanucks, etc). It also happens to conveniently eliminate motion blur -- even for 2D -- something that apparently interests more people than people interested in 3D glasses.

*If you have 3D Vision Kit* -- Lightboost is *easy* to enable.

*If you do not have 3D Vision Kit* -- Lightboost is *hard* to enable.

(It was only about six months ago that a hack was discovered, to make it possible to finally enable LightBoost without buying 3D glasses. That finally made LightBoost more popular for motion blur elimination)
Quote:


> Which would be the better option, the ASUS VG278HE or the ASUS VG278H?


The VG278HE is cheaper, while the VG278H has reported better picture (Comparison of VG278H and VG278H by hazmatm). Two other reports confirmed this. Also, the BENQ XL2720T reportedly has good LightBoost color quality with new 3D Vision drivers. The bonus is VG278H includes 3D Vision glasses, so you can use 3D from time to time, if that interests you. VG278H has a builtin emitter, so it's conveniently one of the easiest monitors to enable LightBoost in.


----------



## mdrejhon

I'd like to quote a post I made on HardForum, comparing the various different LightBoost monitors, based on known forum-posted information throughout multiple forums:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mark Rejhon*
> (Approximate information, based on at least 3 independent forum user reports. Manufacturers tinker with the monitors all the time, so revisions may produce different results. e.g. the new VG278HR revision of the VG278H monitor.).
> 
> ASUS VG278H 27"
> + Better-than-average LightBoost color
> + Easier to enable LightBoost, due to builtin emitter
> + Can exceeds 700:1 contrast ratio in LightBoost (when recalibrated after setting Contrast OSD=75% or 80%)
> - LightBoost artifacting (corsstalk) becomes bad if you raise Contrast to 90% instead of 65%. (nearly invisible ghosting at 65% though)
> 
> ASUS VG278HE 27"
> - This may not be consistent on all VG278HE's but some of them reportedly had a more amplified LCD inversion artifact (pixel checkerboard artifact similiar to this), and hazmatm compared VG278H vs VG278HE and 3 others concurred.
> - This is the display reviewed by TFTCentral's Motion Blur Reduction Backlights Article.
> 
> ASUS VG248QE 24"
> + Clearer than average LightBoost (lack of crosstalk, lack of faint ghost double-image aftifact) -- no ghosting, no overdrive artifacts, no trailing, nothing at all
> + Best CRT effect according to many (e.g. Vega)
> - Poor color. Lower contrast ratio, about 500:1 (reportedly as low as 250:1 with buggy new 320.18+ drivers)
> - Occasionally a very faint scanlines effect at the upper-right corner (some samples)
> 
> BENQ XL2411T 24"
> ... Similiar to VG248QE. It uses the same panel as VG248QE.
> 
> BENQ XL2420T 24"
> + Very good color for a LightBoost monitor.
> - Poor LightBoost trailing artifacts; I've heard a few reports of LCD inversion artifacts (pixel checkerboard artifact, similiar to this). This is a different/older panel than the XL2411T
> 
> BENQ XL2720T 27"
> + Very good color for a LightBoost monitor with newest drivers (320.18+)
> + Reportedly can approach nearly 1000:1 contrast ratio in LightBoost
> - Poor color with older drivers
> - Slight dark ghosting effect during LightBoost, but not too strong
> 
> Some monitor samples can unexpectedly have worse attributes (e.g. more LCD inversion artifact -- checkerboard artifact -- than others). For example, while my XL2411T does not have a noticeable LightBoost checkerboard artifact, one person reported theirs had a noticeable version of this artifact. Eventually someone needs to obtain all LightBoost monitors and execute the Great LightBoost Comparison Test. Also, I am creating a new LightBoost FAQ page on Blur Busters (e.g. answers common LightBoost questions with known answers), as a supplement, it should be published within the next two weeks.
> 
> Also within the same LightBoost monitor, via monitor menus:
> - For a brighter image, increase LightBoost %
> - For a dimmer image (but clearer motion), decrease LightBoost %
> - For less checkerboard artifact, decrease Contrast %
> - For less LightBoost trailing artifacts, decrease Contrast % on monitor to 65%
> - For less gamma bleaching effect, decrease Contrast % on monitor to 65%
> - For maximum color gamut (when recalibrating with a Spyder4 or i1 Pro), increase Contrast % to 90% before beginning colorimeter calibration. Better colors and contrast will occur, but you will get somewhat worse LightBoost trailing artifacts. In certain cases, it is possible to approach 1000:1 contrast ratio with LightBoost on some of the better 27" models.
> ...Bottom line, you will be wanting to choose a compromise picture setting based on preferences.
> 
> *Best Color* -- If you want a color/contrast champion for LightBoost, the VG278H and XL2720T is probably your best bet.
> *Minimum Artifacts* -- If you want a fast-responding panel with very clean CRT effect (minimum possible LightBoost artifacts) or minimum possible 3D crosstalk, the VG248QE and XL2411T is your best bet.


There's also the *LightBoost HOWTO* which is updated on an ongoing basis.


----------



## hatlesschimp

For those with color issues.

I have a Color Calibrator that im going to loan out.

I used this with my ASUS VG248QE Monitors. As you can see the colors are very washed out but once calibrated they are quite respectful. (middle monitor has been calibrated)

Check this thread for further details.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1397938/my-spyder4elite-monitor-calibrator-loan-thread


----------



## Art Vanelay

Do you know which driver version has the best color? 296.10 is passable, but I get weird banding on blacks and greys, as well as a weird bug where there's an alternating pattern of bright and dark pixels down the screen.

Here's an example of what it would look like zoomed in.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Do you know which driver version has the best color? 296.10 is passable, but I get weird banding on blacks and greys, as well as a weird bug where there's an alternating pattern of bright and dark pixels down the screen.


With or without LightBoost?
Also, does it look anything similiar to a checkerboard pixel pattern, like this?
Is it more intense in some parts of the screen than others (e.g. only at the upper-right corner)?
Does it only occur at some referesh rates?

It may be a monitor specific artifact.
Some VG248QE's have exhibited a scanlines issue on some parts of the screen, such as the upper-right corner, and only at certain refresh rates such as 120Hz. Some VG278HE's have exibited the checkerboard pixel pattern (amplified LCD inversion artifact).


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> With or without LightBoost?
> Also, does it look anything similiar to a checkerboard pixel pattern, like this?
> Is it more intense in some parts of the screen than others (e.g. only at the upper-right corner)?
> Does it only occur at some referesh rates?
> 
> It may be a monitor specific artifact.
> Some VG248QE's have exhibited a scanlines issue on some parts of the screen, such as the upper-right corner, and only at certain refresh rates such as 120Hz. Some VG278HE's have exibited the checkerboard pixel pattern (amplified LCD inversion artifact).


It's nothing like that checkerboard artifact. This is uniform throughout the screen, and at all 3 refresh rates.

It's not really bothering me, but the black and gray problem is annoying me. I have noticed that in things like the buy menu in CS:GO, the gradients have sudden steps in color, and they step to strange brown and burgundy colors. Also, sometimes black or dark colors don't seem uniform, there are random millimeter in radius dark and light patches throughout them.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> It's not really bothering me, but the black and gray problem is annoying me. I have noticed that in things like the buy menu in CS:GO, the gradients have sudden steps in color, and they step to strange brown and burgundy colors. Also, sometimes black or dark colors don't seem uniform, there are random millimeter in radius dark and light patches throughout them.


This stumps me - perhaps this is an issue with the VG248QE. The gradients *might* be explained via the reduced color gamut (e.g. 6bit TN panel and 8bit dithering), check out the Lagom LCD patterns. But the other artifacts stumps me, as neither my VG278H nor XL2411T has them.


----------



## mdrejhon

UPDATE...

There is a new *LightBoost FAQ* covering common questions and answers.
Quote:


> *General*
> 
> Q: What, exactly, is LightBoost?
> Q: What are the pros/cons of LightBoost?
> Q: Easiest way to enable LightBoost?
> Q: Which monitors supports LightBoost?
> Q: Should I use VSYNC ON or VSYNC OFF?
> Q: How do I change the LightBoost percentage?
> Q: What is the difference between LightBoost 10%, 50% and 100%?
> Q: What is the advantage of LightBoost 10%?
> Q: How do I turn quickly turn on/off LightBoost?
> Q: How do I turn permanently off LightBoost?
> 
> *Picture*
> 
> Q: I thought "LightBoost" boosts picture brightness? Why is it not bright?
> Q: My picture is too dark!
> Q: My picture is too bright!
> Q: My colors are washed out!
> Q: My color is too purple!
> Q: My monitor adjustments are locked! How do I adjust color?
> Q: The 144Hz setting is missing! How to fix?
> 
> *Fluidity*
> 
> Q: My games are capped at 60fps! How to fix?
> Q: What GPU do I need for LightBoost?
> Q: I can only do 80 fps! Will LightBoost still benefit me?
> Q: Why does LightBoost look better with VSYNC ON?
> Q: How can I make LightBoost smoother with VSYNC OFF?
> Q: How can I reduce input lag with LightBoost?
> 
> *Vision*
> 
> Q: Why does LightBoost have MORE eyestrain?
> Q: Why does LightBoost have LESS eyestrain?
> Q: Can I get used to LightBoost?
> Q: LightBoost doesn't eliminate motion blur for me. Why?
> 
> *Technical*
> 
> Q: Why is LightBoost so difficult to enable? nVidia vendor lock-in?
> Q: How does LightBoost eliminate motion blur?
> Q: Why do I need 120fps @ 120Hz for LightBoost?
> Q: Why does it look good at fps=Hz? (frame rate matching refresh rate)
> Q: Why doesn't LightBoost work at 144Hz?
> Q: Why is 120Hz LightBoost better than 144Hz?
> Q: Does LightBoost shorten the life of the monitor's backlight?
> Q: How is LightBoost different from PWM?
> 
> *Advanced Picture Improvement*
> 
> Q: How do I calibrate my picture?
> Q: My games doesn't use my desktop calibration! How to fix?
> Q: How do I make Borderlands 2 more colorful looking?
> Q: Can Spyder4 or i1 Display Pro improve LightBoost color?
> Q: How to calibrate for better color and maximum contrast?
> Q: How to calibrate for minimum motion artifacts?


----------



## jderbs

nice FAQ









Only thing I would add is something about the Nvidia -> AMD process


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jderbs*
> 
> nice FAQ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only thing I would add is something about the Nvidia -> AMD process


It's a useful item, but nVidia may not be very happy about that.
Unofficially, people can just google "LightBoost on AMD" to find instructions.

However, I'd like to make sure that nVidia appreciates my work in Blur Busters, because nVidia is the one who invented LightBoost & I don't want to upset nVidia -- if you know what I mean.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> It's a useful item, but nVidia may not be very happy about that.
> Unofficially, people can just google "LightBoost on AMD" to find instructions.
> 
> However, I'd like to make sure that nVidia appreciates my work in Blur Busters, because nVidia is the one who invented LightBoost & I don't want to upset nVidia -- if you know what I mean.


It would be nice if Nvidia would just add a setting to the driver that lets you enable lightboost without this annoying workaround. It would be a major selling point.


----------



## hatlesschimp

It will happen just a matter of when.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> It would be nice if Nvidia would just add a setting to the driver that lets you enable lightboost without this annoying workaround. It would be a major selling point.


I agree.
Easier methods of LightBoost are still coming, whether nVidia does it or not.
I think nVidia should react soon.


----------



## Catscratch

I have a recommendation for the FAQ. Q. Does Lightboost hack shorten the lifespan of the monitor ?


----------



## hatlesschimp

It's a bit hard to determine that one, I reckon.

Unless a few fail within 3 months of enabling it.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Catscratch*
> 
> I have a recommendation for the FAQ. Q. Does Lightboost hack shorten the lifespan of the monitor ?


Seeing as lightboost is an intended function of the monitor, I doubt it.


----------



## shedokan

The crazy thing about LB is that after you get used to playing fps with zero motion blur and then you try even 144Hz, not to talk about 60Hz. You just can't understand how people can play like this and how you could lol.


----------



## hatlesschimp

Lol I know what you mean.

I went from 60 up to 144. And I've vowed never again will I go back to 60.

Now I'm at 144 I'm yet to do lightboost. I haven't gamed for 4 days and I have to fly out for work soon so I will get around to it when I get back. But as you said I can only image I will be like never again 144 with no light boost lol.


----------



## VettePilot

It seems like a lot of you have the Asus monitor and not Benq. Does the Asus have better colors? That is the thing I hated about the Benq. Colors were horrible. Also the Benq 2420 is not a 144hz but the 2411 is and it is not sold here for some reason. I have my 120hz samsung and tried the lightboos hack but the screen went way too dark.


----------



## hatlesschimp

I went the ASUS because I've had a lot of there monitors over the years and I've never had a problem with them.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Topgearfan*
> 
> It seems like a lot of you have the Asus monitor and not Benq. Does the Asus have better colors? That is the thing I hated about the Benq. Colors were horrible. Also the Benq 2420 is not a 144hz but the 2411 is and it is not sold here for some reason. I have my 120hz samsung and tried the lightboos hack but the screen went way too dark.


Running LCD's at 120Hz have better color than running at 144Hz (apples vs apples non-LightBoost)

I own both the ASUS VG278H and the BENQ XL2411T, and the VG278H has superior color, though XL2411T has cleaner motion. Right now, the VG278H is my primary monitor, and the BENQ sits nearby whenever I need to do Blur Busters tests.

With the newer (but buggy) drivers, the BENQ XL2720T is reported to have better color -- one of the best colors in a LightBoost monitor -- achieving 950:1 contrast ratio.

Several forum reports show that the XL2420T has better color than the XL2411T, but has worse trailing artifacts (in LightBoost).


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Catscratch*
> 
> I have a recommendation for the FAQ. Q. Does Lightboost hack shorten the lifespan of the monitor ?


Added, thanks.
"*Q: Does LightBoost shorten the life of the monitor's backlight?*"
(no, it does not. It's an intentional feature of a monitor as part of 3D Vision, that just happens to be good for 2D)

Also added:
"*Q: LightBoost doesn't eliminate motion blur for me. Why?*"
(troubleshooting)

And
"*Q: I can only do 80 fps! Will LightBoost still benefit me?*"
(minor benefits begin at frame rate exceeding half refresh rate; big benefits maximize at fps=Hz)


----------



## VettePilot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Running LCD's at 120Hz have better color than running at 144Hz (apples vs apples non-LightBoost)
> 
> I own both the ASUS VG278H and the BENQ XL2411T, and the VG278H has superior color, though XL2411T has cleaner motion. Right now, the VG278H is my primary monitor, and the BENQ sits nearby whenever I need to do Blur Busters tests.
> 
> With the newer (but buggy) drivers, the BENQ XL2720T is reported to have better color -- one of the best colors in a LightBoost monitor -- achieving 950:1 contrast ratio.
> 
> Several forum reports show that the XL2420T has better color than the XL2411T, but has worse trailing artifacts (in LightBoost).


I would love to get the 2411 but I can not find it for sale in the US. Not sure why BenQ did this. I had the 2420T already and sent it back a year ago after a week.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Topgearfan*
> 
> I would love to get the 2411 but I can not find it for sale in the US. Not sure why BenQ did this. I had the 2420T already and sent it back a year ago after a week.


I ordered my XL2411T from overclockers.co.uk online store. I was able to get it on a sale for a big less than $300 USD shortly after Christmas, it just cost $50 shipping.


----------



## hammadj

hey guys, I have an asus zenbook with a GTX 620M, but a 7950 in my desktop. Is there a way to enable lightboost with this? I cant see stereoscopic settings in the nvidia control panel


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammadj*
> 
> hey guys, I have an asus zenbook with a GTX 620M, but a 7950 in my desktop. Is there a way to enable lightboost with this? I cant see stereoscopic settings in the nvidia control panel


You need to install 3D Vision drivers on your laptop, to make an nVidia laptop drive an external 3D Vision monitor at 120Hz with LightBoost. This way, I've heard of people successfully use an nVidia laptop to enable LightBoost.

As for hotplugging nVidia to AMD, that is something nVidia isn't happy with -- but it works (provided you do the ToastyX lightboost.bin method on the AMD system too).


----------



## shedokan

Mark is there any way to keep a custom resolution 24/7 with LB? When I'm adding a custom resolution via NVIDIA Control Panel, and then after a pc restart its like the driver refreshes and you have to add it again. Without LB its still working. When the screen syncs in LB mode its like the settings get refreshed but only resolutions, not colours or 3D application settings


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> Mark is there any way to keep a custom resolution 24/7 with LB? When I'm adding a custom resolution via NVIDIA Control Panel, and then after a pc restart its like the driver refreshes and you have to add it again. Without LB its still working. When the screen syncs in LB mode its like the settings get refreshed but only resolutions, not colours or 3D application settings


Sounds like there are driver bugs. Have you tried the ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility to do the resolutions instead?


----------



## shedokan

Yeah, its not "official" like NVIDIA Control Panel :l

I mean with NVIDIA CP when you create a custom resolution it shows up in the game alrdy as an option to choose for example in CS GO, but with CRU it doesn't.

It has been like this with any driver, well I guess all those stuff will get fixed sooner or later when LB for 2D becomes an official thing for NVIDIA


----------



## Robilar

I ended up going with the Asus HE 27". No stuck or dead pixels (which is good because I bought insurance against it).

I am tempted to sell my 780 and pick up a pair of 770's though. My frame rates are pretty high with a single card but my understanding is that I would need higher than 120 FPS consistently to benefit from Lightboost. I'll need two cards for that.

http://s1201.photobucket.com/user/RobilarOCN/media/DSC01236_zps7916a4e9.jpg.html


----------



## MenacingTuba

http://www.overclockers.ru/lab/54424_3/BiG_LightBoost._Obzor_i_testirovanie_monitora_BenQ_XL2720T.html#9

Lightboost Measurements
http://www.overclockers.ru/images/lab/2013/06/13/1/03_tab3.png


----------



## hamzatm

Two cards do fare better, unless you want stupidly low input lag characteristics in which case I for one am kinda prejudiced against anything that isn't a single card


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MenacingTuba*
> 
> Lightboost Measurements
> http://www.overclockers.ru/images/lab/2013/06/13/1/03_tab3.png


The setting that they used, messes the LightBoost contrast ratio. It does have benefits (less trailing artifacts), but the color penalty might not be worth it to some people -- try calibrating LightBoost (with a colorimeter) with the BENQ set to a Contrast of 50%. I've heard reports of 900:1 contrast ratio being exceeded this way.

(They calibrated LightBoost with a monitor Contrast setting of 37)


----------



## SightUp

I have a very specific question I hope someone can answer.

On the FAQ page @ http://www.blurbusters.com it says:
Quote:


> Q: What is the advantage of LightBoost 10%?
> 
> This produces the clearest possible LightBoost motion, for the best "CRT quality" motion. However, this image may be too dark if you prefer a brighter image.


On my BenQ XL2420T, I do not have have ability increments to increase the NVIDIA 3D LightBoost setting by numbers. However, I have settings from a empty bar to a full one or in other words from low to high. Do you all follow that? Anyways, is this the 10% that the question from blurbusters.com is referring to? If not, where is it?


----------



## socketus

No, there are no numbers, just approximation of percent by the shaded part of the bar graph. 10% is way over to the left end of the bar graph. Play with it to see how it increases by 10% increments when you slide it to the right, assuming that your bar graph is set to 10%.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> I have a very specific question I hope someone can answer.
> 
> On the FAQ page @ http://www.blurbusters.com it says:
> On my BenQ XL2420T, I do not have have ability increments to increase the NVIDIA 3D LightBoost setting by numbers. However, I have settings from a empty bar to a full one or in other words from low to high. Do you all follow that? Anyways, is this the 10% that the question from blurbusters.com is referring to? If not, where is it?


First notch from empty bar -- adjust LightBoost to 0, then adjust one notch back upwards. That's what we all call LightBoost 10%.

Personally I usually use 50% (good compromise) as the 10% setting is usually to dark.


----------



## SightUp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> First notch from empty bar -- adjust LightBoost to 0, then adjust one notch back upwards. That's what we all call LightBoost 10%.
> 
> Personally I usually use 50% (good compromise) as the 10% setting is usually to dark.


On the site it states that 10% is going to give you the best performance, is that correct? I am willing to look at crap if it gives me the slightest advantage!

Changing the contrast of the monitor will have no effect on the performance, correct?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> On the site it states that 10% is going to give you the best performance, is that correct? I am willing to look at crap if it gives me the slightest advantage!


The problem is that it's a brightness-vs-motion tradeoff.
Better motion, less brightness. You lose brightness; which can hurt your advantage, which might outweigh the better motion. That said, if it was too bright anyway, then it's definitely to your advantage to turn down the LightBoost setting.
*Adjust LightBoost setting to personal preference. A highly recommended compromise setting is LightBoost 50%*
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> Changing the contrast of the monitor will have no effect on the performance, correct?


No effect, except it can kind of behave like a "dark areas revealer" -- so you can see better in the dark areas.

The difference between LightBoost 10%, 50% and 100% is fairly subtle, compared to the difference between 60Hz and 120Hz:


----------



## SightUp

What do you recommend the contrast be set to?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> What do you recommend the contrast be set to?


Use the Lagom Contrast pattern. For brightest image, adjust until the image is bright as possible but without blowing out the bright colors (making the colors look identical).
If you adjusted your saturation, make sure you lower your saturation to the center setting.

Sometimes it's needed to lower the contrast more significantly to reduce the LightBoost motion artifacts, since high contrast settings make the overdrive a little more visible during LightBoost.


----------



## SightUp

That's my problem right now. It seems that if I boost anything, it blooms or blends the colors together.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> That's my problem right now. It seems that if I boost anything, it blooms or blends the colors together.


Try center settings. Contrast=50% and Saturation=50%.
ASUS VG278H starts clipping at Contrast=90%, but several BENQ models starts clipping at Contrast=50%.

Leave the colors in nVidia Control Panel at defaults (for now) until you've adjusted your monitor's settings first. Once you've done that, you can start playing with the settings in nVidia Control Panel.


----------



## SightUp

I do not think I see a saturation setting. I only see a contrast setting.


----------



## SDub

I wish this article was out when I bought my S23A950D. I play games for competitive fun and it would of been nice to spend less (my monitor cost $500) and get a monitor that supported this technology. I will still give it a try, but it's just a little sad knowing I'll be getting that extra input delay. Oh well!

Question: Do we need to install some sort of registry hack for our Samsung monitor? Do we need to change any settings for our GPU? Or is it just as simple as enabling Stereoscopic 3D?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Is it actually possible to tell the difference between 10% light boost and 100% light boost? A 1ms difference doesn't seem like a lot.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Is it actually possible to tell the difference between 10% light boost and 100% light boost? A 1ms difference doesn't seem like a lot.


Definitely. I can notice the difference, but only for very fast ultrahighframerate motion.

Example: PixPerAn running at ~1000 pixels/sec == 1 pixel of motion blur per millisecond

1. Install PixPerAn from Motion Tests
2. Run the racing car at Tempo 8. That's 960 pixels/second. Half a screen width per second.
3. Watch the "I NEED MORE SOCKS" text.
4. Adjust between different LightBoost % settings while watching the text.
5. You'll see the difference in the "I NEED MORE SOCKS" text.

The difference becomes even bigger if you run at Tempo 16 (this is one full screen width per second); because now you get 2 pixels of motion blur difference between LightBoost=10% and LightBoost=100%. This can be important to some players during fast 180-degree flick turns in FPS games; as well as things like fast strafing and fast object tracking, especially if you have a good 1000Hz mouse. Vega, myself, and others can tell the difference during ultrafast perfectly-VSYNC'd motion.

This advantage is mainly noticeable if you've already eliminated all other motion blur weak links
-- You have a good 1000Hz mouse; hardware sensitivity high; in-game sensitivity low. (Mouse turns becomes as perfectly smooth as keyboard strafe left/right)
-- You run fps=Hz (VSYNC ON) or you run fps massively exceeding Hz (VSYNC OFF)
-- Near zero stutters. If you get *any* stutters, it will essentially hide the 1-pixel to 2-pixel of motion blur improvement.

Otherwise, you are far less likely to see the difference between LightBoost=10% and LightBoost=100%


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Definitely. I can notice the difference, but only for very fast ultrahighframerate motion.
> 
> Example: PixPerAn running at ~1000 pixels/sec == 1 pixel of motion blur per millisecond
> 
> 1. Install PixPerAn from Motion Tests
> 2. Run the racing car at Tempo 8. That's 960 pixels/second. Half a screen width per second.
> 3. Watch the "I NEED MORE SOCKS" text.
> 4. Adjust between different LightBoost % settings while watching the text.
> 5. You'll see the difference in the "I NEED MORE SOCKS" text.
> 
> The difference becomes even bigger if you run at Tempo 16 (this is one full screen width per second); because now you get 2 pixels of motion blur difference between LightBoost=10% and LightBoost=100%. This can be important to some players during fast 180-degree flick turns in FPS games; as well as things like fast strafing and fast object tracking, especially if you have a good 1000Hz mouse. Vega, myself, and others can tell the difference during ultrafast perfectly-VSYNC'd motion.
> 
> This advantage is mainly noticeable if you've already eliminated all other motion blur weak links
> -- You have a good 1000Hz mouse; hardware sensitivity high; in-game sensitivity low. (Mouse turns becomes as perfectly smooth as keyboard strafe left/right)
> -- You run fps=Hz (VSYNC ON) or you run fps massively exceeding Hz (VSYNC OFF)
> -- Near zero stutters. If you get *any* stutters, it will essentially hide the 1-pixel to 2-pixel of motion blur improvement.
> 
> Otherwise, you are far less likely to see the difference between LightBoost=10% and LightBoost=100%


I'll try that test out when I get back to my main computer.

1000hz actually makes a difference over 500Hz? I have never actually been able to tell a diffrence.

Also, doesn't Vsync add a huge latency onto the display? I've for some reason had trouble enabling it on my new monitor, but on my old 60hz monitor, games were barely playable with vsync on.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> 1000hz actually makes a difference over 500Hz? I have never actually been able to tell a diffrence.


500Hz and 1000Hz probably has little difference.
That said, a good 1000Hz mouse has better 500Hz, too.
Quote:


> Also, doesn't Vsync add a huge latency onto the display?


You don't need to have VSYNC ON.

I'm just saying that to easily tell apart LightBoost 10% vs 100%, you generally need nearly perfect stutter-free motion, which mainly occurs at either:
-- VSYNC ON (perfect [email protected], no slowdowns)
-- VSYNC OFF (framerate massively exceeding Hz, to eliminate harmonic stutters between fps and Hz -- e.g. [email protected] can cause 5 stutters per second -- the beat frequency). e.g. uncapped fraomerate in Source engine games; (or very high fps_max values)

You can also use Adaptive VSYNC, to eliminate most of the input lag disadvantages of VSYNC ON (especially sudden surges of input lag everytime the framerate halves itself -- Adaptive VSYNC fixes that disadvantage).
VSYNC OFF is better for competitive gameplay, though some people (like me) prefer VSYNC ON for solo gameplay when the lag doesn't matter but that the fluidity matters more.

It's a matter of personal preference.


----------



## Shiftstealth

OMG what a difference this made i haven't used a CRT since i was like 10, i'm 24 now. This made a huge difference. I'm tossing my 2560x1440 over it!


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> I'm tossing my 2560x1440 over it!


I did! Regret nothing.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> OMG what a difference this made i haven't used a CRT since i was like 10, i'm 24 now. This made a huge difference. I'm tossing my 2560x1440 over it!


Posts: 1,337

That was your 1337th post -- and if you don't know what that means -- google "1337".


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> I'm just saying that to easily tell apart LightBoost 10% vs 100%, you generally need nearly perfect stutter-free motion, which mainly occurs at either:
> -- VSYNC ON (perfect [email protected], no slowdowns)
> -- VSYNC OFF (framerate massively exceeding Hz, to eliminate harmonic stutters between fps and Hz -- e.g. [email protected] can cause 5 stutters per second -- the beat frequency). e.g. uncapped fraomerate in Source engine games; (or very high fps_max values)
> 
> You can also use Adaptive VSYNC, to eliminate most of the input lag disadvantages of VSYNC ON (especially sudden surges of input lag everytime the framerate halves itself -- Adaptive VSYNC fixes that disadvantage).
> VSYNC OFF is better for competitive gameplay, though some people (like me) prefer VSYNC ON for solo gameplay when the lag doesn't matter but that the fluidity matters more.
> 
> It's a matter of personal preference.


I honestly can't tell the difference between lightboost at 100% and at 10%. I guess I'm not that sensitive to motion blur then.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I honestly can't tell the difference between lightboost at 100% and at 10%. I guess I'm not that sensitive to motion blur then.


Tested it under perfect conditions as Mark described? Like in pixperan, or in a situation where you have perfect VSYNCed motion? I noticed straight away in Pixperan


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Tested it under perfect conditions as Mark described? Like in pixperan, or in a situation where you have perfect VSYNCed motion? I noticed straight away in Pixperan


I was using pixperan, and couldn't see any difference.


----------



## hamzatm

Speed 30 readability test, moving your head side to side and you can just about read the whole text?


----------



## shedokan

With 10% reading 30 is easy with 100% you will miss 2-3 letters at the middle or so from what I remember


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I honestly can't tell the difference between lightboost at 100% and at 10%. I guess I'm not that sensitive to motion blur then.


Here's an easier way to compare.
Lean forward so your head is only 1 feet away from the screen.
Now, alternate between LightBoost=0% and LightBoost=10% while staring at "I NEED MORE SOCKS"
(do not look at monitor menus, look at the "I NEED MORE SOCKS" instead of the monitor menus when adjusting)

LightBoost=0% has the same amount of motion blur as LightBoost=100%, so switching between 0% (max lightboost blur) and 10% (min lightboost blur) is a good contrast to compare.

If you still can't tell, don't worry -- not everyone is sensitive enough to these ultra-subtle differences in motion blur. But many of us can still see the difference. Make sure pixperan is properly running at 120fps (check the framerate counter at the upper right corner).

To human eyes, the difference between regular-versus-LightBoost is a bigger jump than LightBoost 100%-versus-10%.


----------



## SDub

I switched my Samsung S23A950D to the frame-sequential 3D mode and I can't tell a difference in both response time and smoother game play. Do I need to apply some setting in my Catalyst Control Center in order for this to work?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SDub*
> 
> I switched my Samsung S23A950D to the frame-sequential 3D mode and I can't tell a difference in both response time and smoother game play. Do I need to apply some setting in my Catalyst Control Center in order for this to work?


No, if your monitor's OSD says "3D Mode Enabled", you're already set. But did you change your pixel response first before you enabled 3D mode? (Samsung HOWTO)

Also, not everyone is sensitive to motion blur. From the LightBoost FAQ:
Quote:


> *Q: LightBoost doesn't eliminate motion blur for me. Why?*
> 
> First, verify LightBoost is turned on. The monitor on-screen menus should say "3D MODE" (even for 2D), and "LightBoost" setting should be unlocked in the monitor menus.
> If LightBoost is already enabled, see below:
> 
> *Pre-requisites*
> 
> Frame rate matches or exceeds refresh rate (e.g. 120fps @ 120Hz).
> LightBoost motion blur elimination is not noticeable at 60 frames per second.
> You are using a sufficiently powerful GPU, preferably GeForce 680, 780 or Titan.
> You are tracking your eyes on fast-moving objects (e.g. fast-panning screen)
> Turn off your game's motion blur effect. Many games add motion blur as a GPU effect.
> *Troubleshooting*
> 
> Try a motion test such as PixPerAn, to verify motion.
> Try perfect motion fluidity (fps matching Hz) by testing VSYNC ON temporarily.
> Try eliminating the computer mouse as a stutter factor. Temporarily test using keyboard. Mouse stutters can motion blur.
> Do the game fluidity test below:
> *Game Test With Perfect Motion Fluidity*
> *(A)* Load an older FPS game that can consistently run at over 120 frames per second.
> (e.g. Half Life 2, Counter Strike, Team Fortress 2, Quake Live, Borderlands);
> *(B)* Temporarily turn VSYNC ON; This is important during this temporary test;
> *(C)* Ensure the frame rate is matching refresh rate (e.g. 120fps @ 120Hz);
> *(D) *Strafe fast in front of a high-resolution wall via the keyboard (left/right arrow keys);
> *(E)* Track your eyes on objects on the wall (e.g. poster) while you're strafing left/right. Repeat the test with LightBoost enabled and disabled. There will be far less motion blur with LightBoost enabled. Small text on walls will be more readable while strafing.
> 
> *Human Factors*
> 
> Your ability to track fast-moving objects; and your sensitivity to motion blur.
> Whether or not you are used to CRT gaming. (LightBoost brings the CRT effect to LCD)
> Some people growing up today, has never played on a CRT before. Such individuals may be less likely to notice quickly.
> Some people only have a habit of eye-tracking only slower-moving objects.
> Specific play styles. Strafing sideways & turning motions benefits more than walking forward.
> Sensitivity to input lag, flicker, etc. (You benefit more if you don't feel any effects from input lag or flicker)
> Some people have vision limitations that prevent seeing motion blur elimination on strobe displays (CRT, LightBoost)
> *Computer Factors That Hurt LightBoost*
> 
> Ability to run frame rate equalling Hz for best LightBoost benefit. (e.g. [email protected]).
> Judder/stutter control. Too much judder can kill LightBoost motion clarity benefits.
> Framerate limits. Some games cap to 60fps, this needs to be uncapped (e.g. fps_max)
> Faster motion benefits more. Not as noticeable during slow motion.
> Specific games. e.g. Team Fortress 2 benefits far more than World of Warcraft.
> Some games stutters more with VSYNC ON, while others stutters more with VSYNC OFF. Test opposite setting.
> High quality mouse (e.g. 1000 Hz gaming mouse). Ordinary mice adds too much judder, eliminating LightBoost benefit.
> *Example of Game Play Benefitting From Elimination of Motion Blur:*
> 
> Fast 180-degree flick turns in FPS shooting;
> Shooting while turning, without stopping turning (easier on CRT or LightBoost);
> Close-up strafing, especially circle strafing;
> Running while looking at the ground (e.g. hunting for tiny objects quickly);
> Identifying multiple far-away enemies or small targets, while turning fast;
> Playing fast characters such as "Scout" in Team Fortress 2;
> High-speed low passes, such as low helicoptor flybys in Battlefield 3, you aim better.
> For people who have gameplay styles in fast-action video games, such people can gain a massive competitive advantage during fast-motion activities, because it is possible to react faster. Without motion blur, enemies are easier to identify while you're still in fast motion. Even out of the corner of your eyes, even before you stop moving. Without motion blur, fast panning motion look as perfectly sharp as being stationary.


----------



## sharp

Which 27" would you recomend if you had to buy one now? (not interested in 24" models)

I also dont care about the 3D/glasses, just want to use it in 2D + Lightboost.

Asus VG278HE / Benq XL2720T / Acer HN274H (This last one seems to be the least popular) ??

Regards.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sharp*
> 
> Which 27" would you recomend if you had to buy one now? (not interested in 24" models)


Asus VG278H -- Still the good old standby. But it includes the 3D glasses which you don't want.
Asus VG278HE -- Three people reported it had more artifacts than than VG278H.
BENQ XL2720T -- Good reports now. Needs new the buggy 320.18 drivers for much better color.
Acer HN274H -- Not much data on these. Don't confuse it with HN274H (no LB) and HN274HB (LB) Both suffixed by "bmiiid". So the LB model is HN274HBbmiiid. Confusing, eh?

The list of monitors that supports LightBoost is at the top of the *LightBoost HOWTO*.


----------



## General123

I am having issues with SC2 and this. Everytime I load up a game it goes into 3D mode and I try Ctrl+T and it flashes and still stays in 3D. Any ideas ? Thanks


----------



## grandpatzer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Yep, a $50 nVidia card activates LightBoost for a $600 AMD card


Can I use a 20$ Nvidia card?
Does it have to be a specific model, or would any nvidia card do?


----------



## Karnaj

Hi mdrejhon, I'd like to thank you for all the hard work you've put into researching the characteristics of LightBoost. It seems like a godsend to FPS fanatics like me.

Unfortunately, I'm experiencing either ghosting or double-image artifacts when enabling LightBoost @ 120 Hz on my ASUS VG248QE. I've made sure to follow your instructions to the letter using Option B (ToastyX CRU). I'm certain that I've successfully enabled LightBoost since there is a very noticeable improvement from LightBoost-disabled Reduced 144 Hz to LightBoost-enabled 120 Hz.

Concerning the double image, it is most noticeable during the Streaky Pictures Test in PixPerAn. The car is simply a double image with color that is slightly faded. The areas of the picture where the double image overlaps have the brightest color. I've also tried the Readability Test and the letters produce ghosting at faster tempos (7-8). The strangest thing is that LightBoost-disabled Reduced 144 Hz produces considerable motion blur, yet there is no double image at all.

I've tried changing the LightBoost values within my monitor's OSD, but there is no difference between zero and max (besides dimming/brightening the screen). Is there anything I can do in order to get rid of this ghosting/double image using LightBoost? In order to clarify, it looks very similar to the left image below:


----------



## mdrejhon

The LightBoost double-image trailing artifact is a common LightBoost artifact, and is normal. But it should not be very intense, or easily noticeable in games.
(The double-image sharp ghost should be far fainter; roughly the same intensity as 3D crosstalk)

-- It varies between different models of monitors
-- It will become less intense if you lower your Contrast setting in your monitor's OSD. If you were using 80, try 65. If you were using 65, try 50.
-- If this problem remains, try testing 100 Hz LightBoost

Adjusting LightBoost setting only slightly improves motion blur (you can see 1 pixel of motion blur in "I NEED MORE SOCKS" at 100% or OFF, but this eliminates itself if you set it to "10%" or "20%") and has almost no effect on the double ghost. But adjusting your Contrast setting will help reduce your double ghost effect. Also, the double ghost effect is worse along the bottom edge of the screen than along the center of the screen; due to less time for pixel transitions.

As a rule of thumb, the LightBoost ghost should be only ~5% faint (or less) along the center band of the screen, on a very good VG248QE or XL2411T, with a reduced Contrast setting. If the strength of the LightBoost double ghost is unusually strong, you may have a defective monitor.

On my XL2411T, there is virtually no LightBoost double ghost along the center band of the screen -- it's a near-perfect LightBoost effect. However, along the bottom edge of the screen, it is more visible. My VG278H is not as good as the XL2411T in eliminating the LightBoost faint double-image effect but I prefer the VG278H due to its better colors.


----------



## ToastyX

A double image indicates the frame rate is 60 FPS. You're seeing a double image because each frame is being strobed twice at 120 Hz. You'll need to find out why the frame rate is being limited.

Some ghosting towards the bottom of the screen is normal, similar to the image on the right except fainter.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ToastyX*
> 
> A double image indicates the frame rate is 60 FPS. You're seeing a double image because each frame is being strobed twice at 120 Hz. You'll need to find out why the frame rate is being limited.


Good catch.

But the poster said that one ghost image is fainter than the other. The LightBoost trailing sharp ghost should be faint -- only 1% to 5% intensity, tops. Some monitors (XL2420T) have it worse than others (XL2411T).

HOWEVER... if the double image effect is equally strong, then it's definitely a [email protected] issue.

If it's almost as strong (e.g. 25% or 50% strong) and you see the double image clearly in all games (even older source engine games), and you are very very very certain it's not the [email protected] effect, then your LightBoost is probably defective. (I'm of course, talking specifically about VG248QE and XL2411T which doesn't have much LightBoost trailing)

If you are using the stereoscopic Control+T method, try ramming Control+T several times -- sometimes it 'unsticks' the [email protected] into [email protected] However, it's best to disable the stereoscopic 3D checkbox if you've already setup lightboost via ToastyX method.


----------



## Ansive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General123*
> 
> I am having issues with SC2 and this. Everytime I load up a game it goes into 3D mode and I try Ctrl+T and it flashes and still stays in 3D. Any ideas ? Thanks


SC2 is a bit silly.

You need to disable it in the game's options menu.


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Good catch.
> 
> But the poster said that one ghost image is fainter than the other. The LightBoost trailing sharp ghost should be faint -- only 1% to 5% intensity, tops. Some monitors (XL2420T) have it worse than others (XL2411T).
> 
> HOWEVER... if the double image effect is equally strong, then it's definitely a [email protected] issue.
> 
> If it's almost as strong (e.g. 25% or 50% strong) and you see the double image clearly in all games (even older source engine games), and you are very very very certain it's not the [email protected] effect, then your LightBoost is probably defective. (I'm of course, talking specifically about VG248QE and XL2411T which doesn't have much LightBoost trailing)
> 
> If you are using the stereoscopic Control+T method, try ramming Control+T several times -- sometimes it 'unsticks' the [email protected] into [email protected] However, it's best to disable the stereoscopic 3D checkbox if you've already setup lightboost via ToastyX method.


How much of a difference is the vg278HE and vg248qe when lightboost is on? I have the 278HE version and I'm tempted to buy the smaller 248qe version and try to sell this monitor. Need to know if it would be worth it?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> How much of a difference is the vg278HE and vg248qe when lightboost is on? I have the 278HE version and I'm tempted to buy the smaller 248qe version and try to sell this monitor. Need to know if it would be worth it?


VG278HE has worse LightBoost trailing artifact than the VG248QE. The VG248QE is generally one of the stellar specimens in having very clean LightBoost motion (zero blur, zero ghosting, zero overdrive) -- at least along the center band of the screen. However, the VG278HE supposedly has significantly better color than the VG248QE. So it's a tradeoff.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> VG278HE has worse LightBoost trailing artifact than the VG248QE. The VG248QE is generally one of the stellar specimens in having very clean LightBoost motion (zero blur, zero ghosting, zero overdrive) -- at least along the center band of the screen. However, the VG278HE supposedly has significantly better color than the VG248QE. So it's a tradeoff.


lol I only bought this monitor because it was the cheapest 120hz monitor. I guess I lucked out on that one.


----------



## Karnaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ToastyX*
> 
> A double image indicates the frame rate is 60 FPS. You're seeing a double image because each frame is being strobed twice at 120 Hz. You'll need to find out why the frame rate is being limited.
> 
> Some ghosting towards the bottom of the screen is normal, similar to the image on the right except fainter.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Good catch.
> 
> But the poster said that one ghost image is fainter than the other. The LightBoost trailing sharp ghost should be faint -- only 1% to 5% intensity, tops. Some monitors (XL2420T) have it worse than others (XL2411T).
> 
> HOWEVER... if the double image effect is equally strong, then it's definitely a [email protected] issue.
> 
> If it's almost as strong (e.g. 25% or 50% strong) and you see the double image clearly in all games (even older source engine games), and you are very very very certain it's not the [email protected] effect, then your LightBoost is probably defective. (I'm of course, talking specifically about VG248QE and XL2411T which doesn't have much LightBoost trailing)
> 
> If you are using the stereoscopic Control+T method, try ramming Control+T several times -- sometimes it 'unsticks' the [email protected] into [email protected] However, it's best to disable the stereoscopic 3D checkbox if you've already setup lightboost via ToastyX method.


Thank you both for the replies.







The double images are equally faded and the areas in which they overlap are the strongest in brightness. I've tried LightBoost @ 100 Hz, but there was no improvement. I'm using the ToastyX CRU method and the stereoscopic 3D checkbox is disabled. My monitor contrast is already set to 65 and decreasing it to 50 did not help.

Both FRAPs and in-game FPS counters indicate that my FPS is being capped at 120. If I pan my view fast in-game, it results in a panorama of double images and I'm unable to see anything clearly. This happens on all sections of the monitor (top, middle, bottom). From the looks of it, each frame is indeed being strobed twice. Unfortunately, I'm not sure how to fix this.

For now, I'll try updating my video drivers (currently version 311.06) since I've had driver errors pop up in the past.

P.S. I forgot to mention that in PixPerAn, it says 60 FPS in the top-right corner even though LightBoost is enabled @ 120 Hz. Switching to Lightboost-disabled 144 Hz results in 72 FPS in PixPerAn. Is this normal? V-sync is turned off and I'm running Windows 7.


----------



## Wubby

I wonder if you guys can help me decide which Lightboost monitor to get.

Background: I have a 22" HP w2207h now. It's ~6 years old, TN & 60Hz but glossy and has great colors. I debated a Korean IPS (Qnix) but one of the reasons I want a new monitor is so I can run an HDMI from the new PS4/XB1 to my monitor. Can't do that with the Korean IPS's as: 1) HDMI equipped IPS monitors don't seem to be able to OC to 120Hz. 2) Since it's 1440 it would take a 720 signal from the console and upscale it to 1440 which would look like crap.

I've been using a TN for so long I'd probably be more than happy with one of the Lightboost monitors. Only real gripe I have is going back to a matte monitor, I like the colors I get on this old glossy HP.

Here's the issue... I live in Japan and what's available and prices for the monitors seem to be quite different than US/Can.

Not available: BenQ XL2411T. I can't find it available anywhere online here in Japan. Amazon.jp forwards XL2411T to the XL2420T. Also the Samsung monitors are pretty hard to find plus expensive it seems.

Here's what's available plus cost (converted to $):

24":
Asus VG248QE $360-$400 (this is probably my most wanted but that ~$100-140 increase over US price puts me off)
BenQ XL2420T $315 (not as good as the VG248QE from what I've read here)

27"
Asus VG278H $540 (comes with glasses/transmitter. the NVIDIA 3D Vision 2 Kit costs $200 separately here for some odd reason so the price of this isn't that horrible if you factor that in)
Asus VG278HE $430
BenQ XL2720T $500

And that's it from what I can find here.

Not sure if I'd want a 27" model though. Don't know if I could live with the huge pixels as this would be my main monitor for web browsing and movies as well. I sit about 2-3' away from the monitor. I suppose I could go dual monitor and get a Korean IPS and also have a Lightboost on the side. Not sure what kind of headaches I'll run into running monitors of different resolutions and refresh rates.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Karnaj*
> 
> P.S. I forgot to mention that in PixPerAn, it says 60 FPS in the top-right corner even though LightBoost is enabled @ 120 Hz. Switching to Lightboost-disabled 144 Hz results in 72 FPS in PixPerAn. Is this normal? V-sync is turned off and I'm running Windows 7.


There's your problem -- fix this first.
It's not a monitor problem.

Try upgrading the software drivers, too.
Failing that, uninstall and reinstall.
You have the same problem regardless of VSYNC ON or VSYNC OFF?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> 24":
> Asus VG248QE $360-$400 (this is probably my most wanted but that ~$100-140 increase over US price puts me off)
> BenQ XL2420T $315 (not as good as the VG248QE from what I've read here)
> 
> 27"
> Asus VG278H $540 (comes with glasses/transmitter. the NVIDIA 3D Vision 2 Kit costs $200 separately here for some odd reason so the price of this isn't that horrible if you factor that in)
> Asus VG278HE $430
> BenQ XL2720T $500


The XL2420T has better color than the VG248QE. It's the LightBoost trailing artifact that is nearly nonexistent on the VG248QE but more visible on the XL2420T.


----------



## Karnaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> There's your problem -- fix this first.
> It's not a monitor problem.
> 
> Try upgrading the software drivers, too.
> Failing that, uninstall and reinstall.
> You have the same problem regardless of VSYNC ON or VSYNC OFF?


Updating my NVidia drivers to 320.18 fixed my problems.







The FPS counter in PixPerAn reads 120 now and the car is crystal clear with no double image or ghosting at all. I'm simply amazed at how fast, yet clear, the image is. I'm also able to read up to tempo 25+ in the Readability Test. I wholeheartedly recommend the ASUS VG248QE with the LightBoost tweak. My old ASUS VG236H cannot compare due to its motion blur issues and lack of LightBoost. Thank you and ToastyX again - I am a happy man indeed.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Karnaj*
> 
> Updating my NVidia drivers to 320.18 fixed my problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The FPS counter in PixPerAn reads 120 now and the car is crystal clear with no double image or ghosting at all. I'm simply amazed at how fast, yet clear, the image is. I'm also able to read up to tempo 25+ in the Readability Test. I wholeheartedly recommend the ASUS VG248QE with the LightBoost tweak. My old ASUS VG236H cannot compare due to its motion blur issues and lack of LightBoost. Thank you and ToastyX again - I am a happy man indeed.


Great to know that your problem has been fixed.
It's interesting to see that a driver issue was the cause of this.

For other tips and tweaks, see LightBoost FAQ -- including the LightBoost 10%, 50% and 100% settings -- the lower % settings reduce blur even further (but at a brightness tradeoff).


----------



## renji1337

Anyone test new driver for vg248qe/other monitor colors?


----------



## Darylrese

Must try this again with my BenQ 2420T, tried once before but couldn't work it out.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darylrese*
> 
> Must try this again with my BenQ 2420T, tried once before but couldn't work it out.


The method is much easier now -- the LightBoost HOWTO no longer uses registry tweaks or INF files.

The method will become even easier, as ToastyX is releasing a new utility by July that allows you to turn on/off LightBoost upon the press of a hotkey (after a quick automatic initialization of the monitor that no longer requires 3D Vision drivers).


----------



## SDub

So, I threw my S23A950D in frame-sequential mode and my FPS in Crysis 3 MP, which is normally ~150FPS, drops to like 80. Is this normal?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SDub*
> 
> So, I threw my S23A950D in frame-sequential mode and my FPS in Crysis 3 MP, which is normally ~150FPS, drops to like 80. Is this normal?


That's the 3D stereoscopic overhead by the graphics card.
If you're not using 3D, then try disabling the "3D Stereoscopic" checkboxes in your Control Panel.

There is a way to eliminate the framerate hit, because you're only using it for 2D. If you're having difficulties keeping the monitor in 3D mode, while keeping Windows in 2D mode (that's the configuraiton you need), post back and we'll have to figure out a way.

There's now currently zero framerate hit with LightBoost using the ToastyX method; so the same should be possible with the *Samsung Zero Motion Blur HOWTO* -- I should soon update it with instructions to prevent the framerate hit, but I need to verify with Samsung users what they did to prevent the framerate loss.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *renji1337*
> 
> Anyone test new driver for vg248qe/other monitor colors?


VG248QE -- significantly worsens LightBoost color
XL2720T -- significantly improves LightBoost color

320.18 driver is fairly buggy on average, but if you're an XL2720T user, this helps you get near the quality of your monitor's non-LightBoost mode (like I am able to with my VG278H)


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> The method is much easier now -- the LightBoost HOWTO no longer uses registry tweaks or INF files.
> 
> The method will become even easier, as ToastyX is releasing a new utility by July that allows you to turn on/off LightBoost upon the press of a hotkey (after a quick automatic initialization of the monitor that no longer requires 3D Vision drivers).


That's gonna be awesome. Having to go into the Nvidia control panel is a bit tedious.


----------



## renji1337

What about with the new beta driver 320.49?


----------



## Darylrese

Hey guys. Managed to get an nvidia 3d vision kit off eBay for £35! Does anyone know if the lightboost technology will work with these glasses or is it only the 2nd version kit? Is it a feature of the monitor or the glasses or both?

My monitor is lightboost ready.

Cheers


----------



## mdrejhon

Yes.
3D Vision 1 glasses will work with 3D Vision 2 LightBoost monitors.
You'll get the LightBoost 3D official benefits.
(In addition to the LightBoost 2D 'tweak' benefits you can get without the glasses).

LightBoost is a monitor feature.
It is a strobe backlight; see high speed video.


----------



## mdrejhon

New BlurBusters Blog entries:

___

Andy of nVidia *posted on NeoGaf*, that nVidia has noticed the *surge of LightBoost popularity*.
This is hopefully good for the future of strobe backlights in general.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=66147486&postcount=552#552

Monitor manufacturers also need to provide two modes in the same monitors:
(1) PWM-free dimming mode (for people who do not like flicker)
(2) Good strobe mode for CRT-quality motion blur elimination (one strobe per refresh)

___

In other news, AnandTech just updated their review to include LightBoost tests:
*AnandTech review of BENQ XL2720T -- now edited to include LightBoost charts!*.
There were comments by many users in the thread, complaining why AnandTech didn't test LightBoost!

AnandTech listened to their users in the comments, and edited their review to include LightBoost tests! Page 7 of AnandTech's review of the BENQ XL2720T includes tests, measurements & graphs with LightBoost enabled on the BENQ XL2720T monitor.

We've reached a critical mass of "Any 120Hz monitor must also include an optional strobe backlight feature": Enthusiast review websites will have difficulty reviewing 120Hz monitors without comments bringing up LightBoost (especially if it was not tested)!

___


----------



## Art Vanelay

I've been wondering, how does the strobed image on these LCDs compare to a CRT monitor? I've always wished I could get a Sony FW900.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Monitor manufacturers also need to provide two modes in the same monitors:
> (1) PWM-free dimming mode (for people who do not like flicker)
> (2) Good strobe mode for CRT-quality motion blur elimination (one strobe per refresh)=


That's the kind of stuff that usually never gets put into products, despite the fact that it would be a big selling point.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I've been wondering, how does the strobed image on these LCDs compare to a CRT monitor? I've always wished I could get a Sony FW900.


You must've missed the testimonials on the first post of this thread:
Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> _original post (Transsive)_
> Then yesterday I, for some reason, disabled the 3d and noticed there was no ghosting to be spotted at all in titan quest. *It's like playing on my old CRT*.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> _original post (Inu)_
> I can *confirm this works* on BENQ XL2420TX
> EDIT: And OMG i can play scout so much better now in TF2, this is borderline cheating.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> _original post (TerrorHead)_
> Thanks for this, it really works! Just tried it on my VG278H. *Its like a CRT now*!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> _original post (Vega)_
> Oh my, I just got Skyrim AFK camera spinning (which I used to test LCD's versus the [Sony CRT] FW900) to run without stutters and VSYNC locked to 120. *This Benq with Lightboost is just as crystal clear if not clearer than the FW900 motion. I am in awe*. More testing tomorrow. Any of my doubts about this Lightboost technology have been vaporized! I've been playing around with this fluid motion on this monitor for like 6-hours straight, that is how impressive it is.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> _OCN post (Baxter299)_
> way to go vega enjoyed your review and pics ..thanks for taking the time .got my VG248QE last friday .*replacing my fw900* witch is finally taking a rest in my closet .
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> _OCN post (Romir)_
> Thanks for the timely review Vega.
> I went ahead and opened mine and *WOW, it really does feel like my FW900*. I haven't tried a game yet but it's down right eerie seeing 2d text move without going blurry.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Cat*
> _QuakeLive forum post (Cat)_
> With my Asus VG278HE at 120Hz and Lightboost (the Lightboost registry hack doesn't currently support 144Hz) playing at 1080p *I am pretty much brutalizing my competition*. Even with its 2-5ms input lag, which is worse than the 1ms of my old 120Hz monitor the difference with Lightboost is so huge the input lag literally becomes a non-issue. The only thing that matters now that I don't experience any motion blur is my true reaction time.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

And there are even more testimonials, including BF3stats graphs:
Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Torr Samaho*
> *Original Post by "Torr Samaho" from Geforce Forums*
> in case someone is wondering what's so great about using lightboost without glasses: i can confirm you get practically blur-free motion on your LCD.. the difference was so obvious to me that i stared surprised at my screen when i used lightboost for the first time.
> 
> people have different sensitivities to motion blur. *i'm one of those who get a kind of motion sickness or nausea from seeing a continously blurred image.*
> 
> to make it clear: no one can consciously see millisecond differences. what you do see however is their effect on the image: a screen with 1 ms response time blurs significantly less than a screen with 10 ms response time. this is visible in mark's captions of objects moving on-screen.
> 
> i'm not gaming competitively, i just want to see sharp motion, as blur detracts from the gaming experience.
> 
> i have tried plain 120 hz screens before. they were clearly better than the blurry mess that 60 hz screens are (at least when you play fast shooters with a high sens, like i do) but they still only delayed that motion sickness. lightboost has finally eliminated it. for gaming it's the biggest improvement in LCD technology yet.
> 
> mark's articles convinced me. i bought an nvidia card and a lightboost monitor only for this purpose (even downgrading static image quality, as i had a WQHD IPS monitor)
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Dr1pper*
> *Original Post by Dr1pperUK on Geforce Forums*
> "Please look at my bf3stats history graph of kdr page:
> 
> 
> 
> "I would like to bring your attention to the sudden increase in my average (i.e. running) KDR that started towards the end of february, the exact time i bought a ASUS 2ms 120hz monitor with light boost (upgraded from a Hannspree 5.5ms 60hz monitor). Please ignore the wild peaks and troughs at the beginning of this graph, this was a period of first learning to play that game well and then the updates that came along to stop the weapons having as much power and accuracy (making it tougher to kill as many people in a single clip hence i died more). After the first 9 months of game updates the game finally smoothened out with fairly consistent weapons handling and predictability once again. This is represented by the consistently stable kdr throughout the long middle period of the graph."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *immetjes*
> *Original Post by immetjes on overclockers.co.uk Forum*
> "I'm using the XL2411T with lightboost since 21-Dec-2012. You can see on the picture below how my stats improved; don't be fooled by how little it seems as these are average stats and with the history going back a year stats change slowly. 19-Dec-2012 is using the old set-up (GTX260 SLI and normal LCD). After that it is the XL2411T driven by one GTX670 OC and then since 12-Jan-2013 GTX670 OC in SLI."
> 
> 
> 
> "I also tried the 144Hz/120Hz without lightboost but I like the 120Hz with lightboost better. In game I can tell straight away if lightboost is off or on because of the blur."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Skyviper*
> *Original Post by "Skyviper" from HardForum*
> So I finally got the VG248QE hooked up last night and was able to play around with it for a couple hours. The other monitor that I have is a HP ZR30W which is a 30" 2560x1600 IPS monitor so I will be comparing the VG248QE to that a lot in this review.
> 
> Right off the bat, I noticed the color quality seems to be a lot worse than the ZR30W. Everything looks to be washed out, dull and not to mention the monitor suffers from poor viewing angles. On the ZR30W, there is next to no color shifting when I move my head around unlike the VG248QE, but that's a common problem with all TN monitors. I tried calibrating the monitor a little bit using some of the values posted online, but it still doesn't compare to the HP.
> 
> Moving on, the first thing I tried was 144 Hz gaming. I loaded up Borderlands 2 just to see how it is and I can definitely say it felt smoother. There is no screen tearing at all on the ASUS, unlike how it is on the HP if i don't turn on Vsync. Although the game felt smoother at 144 Hz and there was less blurring, I found that having to play on a lower res (1920x1080 vs 2560x1600) and poorer color reproduction made the overall gaming experience WORSE. Granted this isn't a competitive, online FPS game so I might have benefited more from having a faster refresh rate, but I would have probably stuck with playing this game on the 30" IPS monitor rather than a 24" TN.
> 
> At this point *I felt like I may have wasted $300 bucks on a monitor that is full of compromises*. The next thing I tried of course was using the Lightboost hack. This was the main reason why I bought the monitor in the first place since there are plenty of other 120 Hz monitors that I could have gotten that I'm sure had better color reproduction.
> 
> So I downloaded the hacked INF file and followed Mark's instructions. After turning on Lightboost, I noticed the monitor became a little bit brighter so I loaded up PixPerAn just to verify everything is working. The first thing I noticed was that I can actually read "I need more socks" at full speed! This was cool since I've never been able to read it going so fast before on any LCD monitor.
> 
> I then proceeded to load up Borderlands 2 again not having much expectations. The first thing that happened was I noticed the FPS drop down to around 1-2 fps, but then I remembered to hold down "Ctrl-T" for a few seconds to turn off the 3D effect which fixed the FPS problem. So I loaded up a game and the first thing that came to my mind was...
> 
> *SWEET MOTHER OF GOD!
> 
> Am I seeing this correctly? The last time I gamed on a CRT monitor was back in 2006 before I got my first LCD and this ASUS monitor is EXACTLY like how I remembered gaming on a CRT monitor. I was absolutely shocked and amazed at how clear everything was when moving around. After seeing Lightboost in action, I would have gladly paid twice the amount for something that can reproduce the feeling I got when playing on a CRT. Now I really can't see myself going back to my 30" 2560x1600 IPS monitor when gaming. Everything looks so much clearer on the ASUS with Lightboost turned on.*
> 
> If you do any kind of gaming, you should definitely get this monitor. For everything else however, an IPS monitor would probably be better.
> 
> Thankfully I am lucky enough to have both
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lowfat*
> *Original Post by Moderator 'lowfat' from HardwareCanucks Forums*
> I'm a definite convert now. *Downgrading in resolution [from 1440p] hasn't been a problem*. In areas where I can maintain 120Hz, Lightboost makes a huge difference. It truly is like gaming on a CRT again. I really can't wait till we start seeing IPS panels that take advantage of frame matched backlight strobing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *l88tbastard*
> *Original Post by l88tbastard on HardForum*
> "Im running one of those Asus 24″ glossy screens that vega sells combined with a titan gtx and itis amazing. After dialing in the colors *I like it better than my sony fw900 and my catleap 2b! [IPS 120Hz Overclock]* This is exactly what i have been waiting years for!"
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Small sampling. Obviously, not everyone likes LightBoost, but there appears to be thousands of testimonials Internet-wide in hundreds of forums in many countries (found in places like Russia, Portugal, USA, Canada, etc). I see the logfiles of Blur Busters Blog, and I'm amazed by the users of hundreds of forums that spontaneously link to my blog everytime somebody mentions 120Hz...

Originally I made tons of forum noise at the beginning of the LightBoost 2D discovery, but I don't have to anymore.... the LightBoost users are sustaining the momentum now.

Up front "expectations tempering" below:
...LightBoost is not really worth it if you can't average triple-digit framerates
...LightBoost monitors quality do have a lot of variances between them.
...IPS may be a better choice, but there are obviously users who prefer LightBoost.
Some general recommendations:
-- You want cheapest LightBoost? ASUS VG248QE or BENQ XL2411T
-- You want clearest LightBoost? ASUS VG248QE or BENQ XL2411T
-- You want most colorful LightBoost? ASUS VG278H (not HE or QE) or BENQ XL2720T.
(Note: My VG278H LightBoost color looks better than my XL2411T non-LightBoost color)


----------



## Darylrese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Yes.
> 3D Vision 1 glasses will work with 3D Vision 2 LightBoost monitors.
> You'll get the LightBoost 3D official benefits.
> (In addition to the LightBoost 2D 'tweak' benefits you can get without the glasses).
> 
> LightBoost is a monitor feature.
> It is a strobe backlight; see high speed video.


Perfect. Thank-you so much! Im guessing I wont have to do much to enable lightboost perminantly on my monitor now then


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> You must've missed the testimonials on the first post of this thread:
> And there are even more testimonials, including BF3stats graphs:
> Small sampling. Obviously, not everyone likes LightBoost, but there appears to be thousands of testimonials Internet-wide in hundreds of forums in many countries (found in places like Russia, Portugal, USA, Canada, etc). I see the logfiles of Blur Busters Blog, and I'm amazed by the users of hundreds of forums that spontaneously link to my blog everytime somebody mentions 120Hz...
> 
> Originally I made tons of forum noise at the beginning of the LightBoost 2D discovery, but I don't have to anymore.... the LightBoost users are sustaining the momentum now.
> 
> Up front "expectations tempering" below:
> ...LightBoost is not really worth it if you can't average triple-digit framerates
> ...LightBoost monitors quality do have a lot of variances between them.
> ...IPS may be a better choice, but there are obviously users who prefer LightBoost.
> Some general recommendations:
> -- You want cheapest LightBoost? ASUS VG248QE or BENQ XL2411T
> -- You want clearest LightBoost? ASUS VG248QE or BENQ XL2411T
> -- You want most colorful LightBoost? ASUS VG278H (not HE or QE) or BENQ XL2720T.
> (Note: My VG278H LightBoost color looks better than my XL2411T non-LightBoost color)


I as talking more about quantitative data. The way that a CRT draws the image is quite different than the way that an LCD draws the image with light boost.


----------



## SDub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> That's the 3D stereoscopic overhead by the graphics card.
> If you're not using 3D, then try disabling the "3D Stereoscopic" checkboxes in your Control Panel.
> 
> There is a way to eliminate the framerate hit, because you're only using it for 2D. If you're having difficulties keeping the monitor in 3D mode, while keeping Windows in 2D mode (that's the configuraiton you need), post back and we'll have to figure out a way.
> 
> There's now currently zero framerate hit with LightBoost using the ToastyX method; so the same should be possible with the *Samsung Zero Motion Blur HOWTO* -- I should soon update it with instructions to prevent the framerate hit, but I need to verify with Samsung users what they did to prevent the framerate loss.


I didn't see this response till now, sorry. I will go home today and attempt the config you mentioned to prevent frame loss!


----------



## Digix117

Just got the asus VG248QE, but I have a 7870 hawk. I plan on replacing them with 760 sli. Can't wait to try this hack.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *renji1337*
> 
> What about with the new beta driver 320.49?


I'd love to know.

Can anyone report that this new Beta nVidia driver changes LightBoost colors?


----------



## Arc0s

They look the same as the previous drivers to me (Asus vg248qe)


----------



## mdrejhon

Just released.... *ToastyX StrobeLight*, the world's easiest method to turn on/off LightBoost. Even for 3-monitor surround setups! No 3D Vision setup required anymore!

 ... 

Easy to add common refresh rates.

Ctrl-Alt-Plus = Turn on LightBoost
Ctrl-Alt-Minus = Turn on LightBoost
Ctrl-Alt-# = Adjust LightBoost % setting


----------



## Buska103

Any tips on recalibrating color for lightboost? The top of my monitor turns pink and the bottom turns yellow - already tried playing with contrast and LB brightness...


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buska103*
> 
> Any tips on recalibrating color for lightboost? The top of my monitor turns pink and the bottom turns yellow - already tried playing with contrast and LB brightness...


You forgot to say which monitor...

LightBoost monitor quality varies quite widely -- it's more consistently good on VG278H's and XL2720T, but a lot more variable on VG248QE's. VG248QE's are excellent for their cheap price and the lack of LightBoost overdrive artifacts, but we've gotten comments of discoloration more frequently with VG248QE's. It is possible you may have a defect if the discoloration is a massive difference between the top and bottom.


----------



## mdrejhon

We need more beta testers of this free easy LightBoost monitor utility:

ToastyX is the maker of the popular Custom Resolution Utility (CRU). He has created a new LightBoost utility, called Strobelight, which I helped beta test on VG278H and XL2411T. We need owners of other 120Hz LightBoost monitors to try it out.
*ToastyX StrobeLight Beta*
(The world's easiest method to turn on/off LightBoost, even for 3-monitor surround setups, no 3D Vision setup required anymore)

 ... 

Easy to add common refresh rates.

Ctrl-Alt-Plus = Turn on LightBoost
Ctrl-Alt-Minus = Turn on LightBoost
Ctrl-Alt-# = Adjust LightBoost % setting

Successfully Tested (so far):
- ASUS VG248QE
- BENQ XL2411T
- ASUS VG278H

Need Testing:
- Surround Setups
- BENQ XL2420T
- BENQ XL2420TX
- BENQ XL2720T
- ASUS VG278HE
- ASUS VG278HR

Please let everyone know if your monitor or surround setup works, and how long it took to initialize.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Just released.... *ToastyX StrobeLight*, the world's easiest method to turn on/off LightBoost. Even for 3-monitor surround setups! No 3D Vision setup required anymore!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> Easy to add common refresh rates.
> 
> Ctrl-Alt-Plus = Turn on LightBoost
> Ctrl-Alt-Minus = Turn on LightBoost
> Ctrl-Alt-# = Adjust LightBoost % setting


Well, this is certainly easier to use than the Nvidia control panel. Too bad it doesn't work in full screen, though. It's still annoying that the VG248QE takes 15 seconds to respond after you change the refresh rate.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> You forgot to say which monitor...
> 
> LightBoost monitor quality varies quite widely -- it's more consistently good on VG278H's and XL2720T, but a lot more variable on VG248QE's. VG248QE's are excellent for their cheap price and the lack of LightBoost overdrive artifacts, but we've gotten comments of discoloration more frequently with VG248QE's. It is possible you may have a defect if the discoloration is a massive difference between the top and bottom.


Yeah, the price was the only reason that I went for this monitor. The colors are pretty horrific, though.


----------



## ArcticZero

I'm currently waiting for my Samsung SA950 to arrive (had my first one replaced due to lines on my screen), and I'm excited to try this out again. Is there any way to increase brightness when using this hack on my monitor? I understand it's not a Lightboost-supported screen, and I did read the Samsung How-to. However, the resulting picture was just way too dim even at 100 brightness and contrast.


----------



## renji1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> They look the same as the previous drivers to me (Asus vg248qe)


What driver currently has best vg248qe lightboost color, is it the one driver before 320.18? Also theres the new 8.1 whql drivers if anyone wants to try those.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ArcticZero*
> 
> I'm currently waiting for my Samsung SA950 to arrive (had my first one replaced due to lines on my screen), and I'm excited to try this out again. Is there any way to increase brightness when using this hack on my monitor? I understand it's not a Lightboost-supported screen, and I did read the Samsung How-to. However, the resulting picture was just way too dim even at 100 brightness and contrast.


It is a limitation of your specific 120Hz monitor. Different monitors have strobe backlights at very different brightness levels. The brightest ones are able to reach ~150cd/m2, while the dimmest ones are only able to reach ~50cd/m2.

You may want to try nVidia Control Panel and adjust colors there.
The LightBoost FAQ contains information about calibrating LightBoost, which may also be applicable to the Samsung strobe backlight.

You can also game during the evenings, or windows closed, with the lights turned down. The monitor will look a lot brighter.


----------



## hammerforged

Awesome. Big shout out to Toasty X for this. I will have to give it a try next week. Thanks man!


----------



## motiv

Many, many thanks to toasty for the Util. Being an AMD user, this has made me very happy. No more messing around with my Nvidia card


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *renji1337*
> 
> What driver currently has best vg248qe lightboost color, is it the one driver before 320.18? Also theres the new 8.1 whql drivers if anyone wants to try those.


Yes the one before 320.18 had better colors, is there any risk in trying those 8.1 drivers?


----------



## renji1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> Yes the one before 320.18 had better colors, is there any risk in trying those 8.1 drivers?


I'm currently running them. I had them running before i upgraded to 8.1 but now im on 8.1, i can't discern any difference from the better lightboost color driver to this one though for some reason.


----------



## mdrejhon

*Although Strobelight makes LightBoost easy on AMD products*, Blur Busters only did testing of ToastyX Strobelight on nVidia products (I own multiple LightBoost monitors, both ASUS and BENQ).

I believe in supporting nVidia because they made LightBoost. If you have not purchased a GPU yet, *please consider leaning towards green instead of red*. Although LightBoost can now be enabled independently of 3D Vision drivers (a side effect of any third party "easy LightBoost utility", which was VERY badly needed) -- Blur Busters does not wish to upset nVidia, while gently pointing out that nVidia needs to un-bundle LightBoost 2D from 3D Vision, and make it make it easier to enable LightBoost (like turning VSYNC ON/OFF). Again, please lean towards the Green Side (aka nVidia products) if you haven't purchased or upgraded your GPU yet. At least, please consider doing so, when you upgrade your ATI GPU to the next version -- *to support nVidia's invention of LightBoost*.


----------



## Koehler

You already have like 4 or 5 other threads on the same lightboost topic and I don't think it deserves a new thread... I don't want this forum to be a lightboost spam fest.

Can mods please merge these threads?


----------



## SDub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SDub*
> 
> I didn't see this response till now, sorry. I will go home today and attempt the config you mentioned to prevent frame loss!


Reporting back! If you disable Stereoscopic 3D in windows, make sure your AMD Display settings are at 120Hz, and your monitor is in Frame Sequential mode, you do get the benefit. I CAN SEE SOUNDS.

I wish it wasn't so dark!


----------



## mdrejhon

OK -- let's agree on this -- I think two threads can be merged:

MERGE:
"Better LightBoost Color -- Upgrade to nVidia Geforce driver 320.18"
"XL2720T / XL2420T / VG278HE / VG248QE -- Easy LightBoost ON / OFF via hotkey"
INTO:
"Zero motion blur LCD!!! (nVidia LightBoost hack, looks like CRT, looks like 480Hz)"

However, the monitor-specific threads need to remain separate (VG248QE thread, XL2720T thread) as those aren't my threads, and they also cover everything specific to those monitors (and users talk LightBoost in those anyway). They definitely don't need to be merged.

Moderator, can you please merge the two threads, above?
(sent PM to Arizonian, who's been quite helpful).


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> OK -- let's agree on this -- I think two threads can be merged:
> 
> MERGE:
> "Better LightBoost Color -- Upgrade to nVidia Geforce driver 320.18"
> "XL2720T / XL2420T / VG278HE / VG248QE -- Easy LightBoost ON / OFF via hotkey"
> INTO:
> "Zero motion blur LCD!!! (nVidia LightBoost hack, looks like CRT, looks like 480Hz)"
> 
> However, the monitor-specific threads need to remain separate (VG248QE thread, XL2720T thread) as those aren't my threads, and they also cover everything specific to those monitors (and users talk LightBoost in those anyway). They definitely don't need to be merged.
> 
> Moderator, can you please merge the two threads, above?
> (sent PM to Arizonian, who's been quite helpful).


Threads have been merged.


----------



## vin97

So ToastyX basically isolated nVidias code for enabling strobe backlight. Shouldn't he be able to enable 144 Hz LB/Strobe then?


----------



## Shogon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vin97*
> 
> So ToastyX basically isolated nVidias code for enabling strobe backlight. Shouldn't he be able to enable 144 Hz LB/Strobe then?


It doesn't work well with 144 Hz from what I remember, or at all.

The .exe works perfectly while in surround, takes at most 30 seconds or so to enable the 3 monitors. It's light years faster compared to the previous way







Great job to all those who worked and helped made this thing possible for us all.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogon*
> 
> It doesn't work well with 144 Hz from what I remember, or at all.
> 
> The .exe works perfectly while in surround, takes at most 30 seconds or so to enable the 3 monitors. It's light years faster compared to the previous way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great job to all those who worked and helped made this thing possible for us all.


I thought it just wasn't supported at all.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I thought it just wasn't supported at all.


Somebody accidentally got 144Hz working in LightBoost, but it was frameskipping in Refresh Rate Multitool.

144Hz requires Reduced Timings, and LightBoost requires an expanded vertical blanking interval. At 144Hz, there is not enough time between refreshes to strobe the backlight.

For those people in this forum, not familiar with the LightBoost strobe backlight timing and why you need to bump down 144Hz->120Hz to create enough room for the strobes between refreshes, see the *high speed 1000fps video of LightBoost*.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Somebody accidentally got 144Hz working in LightBoost, but it was frameskipping in Refresh Rate Multitool.
> 
> 144Hz requires Reduced Timings, and LightBoost requires an expanded vertical blanking interval. At 144Hz, there is not enough time between refreshes to strobe the backlight.
> 
> For those people in this forum, not familiar with the LightBoost strobe backlight timing and why you need to bump down 144Hz->120Hz to create enough room for the strobes between refreshes, see the *high speed 1000fps video of LightBoost*.


Well, is there a known maximum to lightboost? I'd be surprised if that turned out to be 120hz.

Is there any easy way to get light boost working at above 120hz, so I can test for myself?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Well, is there a known maximum to lightboost? I'd be surprised if that turned out to be 120hz.


It's definitely vendor-locked to 100Hz, 110Hz and 120Hz.
Doesn't work at 60Hz or 144Hz. We spent weeks trying to get LightBoost trying to work at other refresh rates. The monitor firmware is unable to trigger LCD-refresh synchronized strobes at a different frequency than within the range of 100Hz through 120Hz.

You can use ToastyX Strobelight to install a 120Hz LightBoost mode, and a 144Hz non-LightBoost mode.
(Add "120Hz strobed" and "144Hz" in strobelight-setup.exe)
Hit Control-Alt-Plus to switch to 120Hz LightBoost
Hit Control-Alt-Minus to switch to 144Hz non-LightBoost


----------



## ALEXH-

So this can work fine with s27a950d? If so, definitely going to try it out when I get back from work in few days!


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ALEXH-*
> 
> So this can work fine with s27a950d? If so, definitely going to try it out when I get back from work in few days!


There's easy instructions at: *Samsung Zero Motion Blur HOWTO*.
Be warned, there's lots more input lag in Samsung's strobe mode than the ASUS/BENQ strobe mode (LightBoost).

NOTE: It does not use nVidia's licensed LightBoost, so Samsung's won't work with the StrobeLight utility that was just released.


----------



## ALEXH-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> There's easy instructions at: *Samsung Zero Motion Blur HOWTO*.
> Be warned, there's lots more input lag in Samsung's strobe mode than the ASUS/BENQ strobe mode (LightBoost).
> 
> NOTE: It does not use nVidia's licensed LightBoost, so Samsung's won't work with the StrobeLight utility that was just released.


Cheers for the info man. Instructions look simple enough. I will definitely try it and let you know how I go. Even though Samsung does not use StrobeLight utility, will there be noticeable difference between Zero Motion Blur and defaults monitor configuration?


----------



## Bcider

Works great, no problems on my 7970. Only thing I don't like is how the brightness goes way down, I wish there was a way to make it brighter with lightboost on.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ALEXH-*
> 
> Cheers for the info man. Instructions look simple enough. I will definitely try it and let you know how I go. Even though Samsung does not use StrobeLight utility, will there be noticeable difference between Zero Motion Blur and defaults monitor configuration?


-- Image will get darker (for 2D use); as you're getting the equivalent of a large black-frame-insertion effect.
-- You will get clearer motion, similiar to LightBoost (see 60Hz vs 120Hz vs LightBoost). The effect will be most pronounced when you play [email protected], so do some tests with older games, unless you got a powerful GPU capable of playing triple-digit framerates in newer games.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bcider*
> 
> Only thing I don't like is how the brightness goes way down, I wish there was a way to make it brighter with lightboost on.


For more information about calibrating LightBoost, see the LightBoost FAQ. You will not be able to gain your original brightness back, but you can get most of your contrast/colors back (Slightly raise monitor OSD contrast to your white clipping point, and lower nVidia Control Panel Gamma to about 0.9 or even 0.85 or thereabouts -- this brings the colors back and undoes the gamma bleach effect, but may make the picture a bit darker). That said, some LightBoost monitors are brighter than others.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bcider*
> 
> Works great, no problems on my 7970. Only thing I don't like is how the brightness goes way down, I wish there was a way to make it brighter with lightboost on.


Comes as a bit of a shock at first, but you get used to it. Just stick with it for a while and you'll soon forget the brighter monitor'd days...


----------



## ALEXH-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> -- Image will get darker (for 2D use); as you're getting the equivalent of a large black-frame-insertion effect.
> -- You will get clearer motion, similiar to LightBoost (see 60Hz vs 120Hz vs LightBoost). The effect will be most pronounced when you play [email protected], so do some tests with older games, unless you got a powerful GPU capable of playing triple-digit framerates in newer games.


Thanks mate. EVGA 780 SC should do the job when AA is reduced a little bit. I shall try it out. I'll let you know how I go


----------



## RemagCP

What if you were to raise the brightness in-game?


----------



## SDub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ALEXH-*
> 
> Thanks mate. EVGA 780 SC should do the job when AA is reduced a little bit. I shall try it out. I'll let you know how I go


I have the S23A950D, and you should watch out for a couple things:

1. Make sure you're in a dark room. I can't use lightboost in my office in the morning/afternoon because of the glossy panels reflecting and the non-bright image. It's too hard to see details and often hinders your performance.
2. Make sure the stereoscopic 3D in windows is turned off. If you disable it, you need to make sure Frame Sequential mode is still working, it was reset for me after switching that value.
3. Make sure your Nvidia control panel and windows are reporting a 120Hz refresh rate. After switching to stereoscopic 3D, my monitor switched to 60Hz on my AMD Display options. Not sure if this is applicable to Nvidia, but something to watch out for!


----------



## ALEXH-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SDub*
> 
> I have the S23A950D, and you should watch out for a couple things:
> 
> 1. Make sure you're in a dark room. I can't use lightboost in my office in the morning/afternoon because of the glossy panels reflecting and the non-bright image. It's too hard to see details and often hinders your performance.
> 2. Make sure the stereoscopic 3D in windows is turned off. If you disable it, you need to make sure Frame Sequential mode is still working, it was reset for me after switching that value.
> 3. Make sure your Nvidia control panel and windows are reporting a 120Hz refresh rate. After switching to stereoscopic 3D, my monitor switched to 60Hz on my AMD Display options. Not sure if this is applicable to Nvidia, but something to watch out for!


Thanks for the tips mate. Will definitely take note when doing it







I'll attempt tomorrow night and let you know


----------



## Bcider

Just wondering what lightboost brightness most of you guys play on. I know 10% gives the smallest amount of blur but to me its way too hard to see things in games like CSGO. I feel 100% is good enough and lets me see everything pretty well.


----------



## trhead

30% plus increased gamma/contrast in some games.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bcider*
> 
> Just wondering what lightboost brightness most of you guys play on. I know 10% gives the smallest amount of blur but to me its way too hard to see things in games like CSGO. I feel 100% is good enough and lets me see everything pretty well.


I run at 100% The difference is too subtle for me to notice in a game like that.


----------



## hammadj

Hey guys, my PixPerAn runs at no more than 35 FPS. any one know why? How can I verify lightboost is on? TBH i cant really tell...


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammadj*
> 
> Hey guys, my PixPerAn runs at no more than 35 FPS. any one know why? How can I verify lightboost is on? TBH i cant really tell...


If you can't tell, then it's probably not on. When I run counter strike with lightboost on, the game looks a lot more clear when I move.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> If you can't tell, then it's probably not on. When I run counter strike with lightboost on, the game looks a lot more clear when I move.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammadj*
> 
> Hey guys, my PixPerAn runs at no more than 35 FPS. any one know why? How can I verify lightboost is on? TBH i cant really tell...


PixPerAn is running at 35 frames per second -- LightBoost effect doesn't show noticeabe *benefit* at 35 frames per second.
You can only easily see LightBoost effect at triple-digit framerates.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammadj*
> 
> Hey guys, my PixPerAn runs at no more than 35 FPS. any one know why? How can I verify lightboost is on? TBH i cant really tell...


PixPerAn has problems under some versions of Windows such as Windows 8.

Check out the *LightBoost FAQ*, section, "Q: LightBoost doesn't eliminate motion blur for me. Why?"


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> You can only easily see LightBoost effect at triple-digit framerates.


I tend to notice it at lower framerates. It makes any kind of stutter 1000x more noticable, and when you drop down to 30FPS, it makes the game almost unplayable.


----------



## mdrejhon

I meant "You can only easily see LightBoost *benefit* at triple-digit framerates."
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I tend to notice it at lower framerates. It makes any kind of stutter 1000x more noticable, and when you drop down to 30FPS, it makes the game almost unplayable.


No kidding, motion blur historically hid stutters. Eliminating motion blur makes stutters far more noticeable. Stutters used to be far more noticeable on CRT's than LCD's, until you got framerates matching refresh rates.

LightBoost is like a CRT monitor that is limited to 100-to-120Hz refresh rates, since LightBoost only works at those refresh rates. So to eliminate stutters with LightBoost, you really do need that triple-digit framerate, to get a very large _motion blur elimination benefit_ from LightBoost.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> I meant "You can only easily see LightBoost *benefit* at triple-digit framerates."
> No kidding, motion blur historically hid stutters. Eliminating motion blur makes stutters far more noticeable. Stutters used to be far more noticeable on CRT's than LCD's, until you got framerates matching refresh rates.
> 
> LightBoost is like a CRT monitor that is limited to 100-to-120Hz refresh rates, since LightBoost only works at those refresh rates. So to eliminate stutters with LightBoost, you really do need that triple-digit framerate, to get a very large _motion blur elimination benefit_ from LightBoost.


I tried playing Gmod with lightboost on. Bad idea; the stutter just about killed me. Even at 120hz, the stutter hurt to look at. Such a bad game.

I don't really notice any downside to light bost at 60 FPS, though. In Rising Storm, which is capped at 62FPS for some reason, light boost looks identical to normal mode. When you get down to 30FPS, however, It starts to look pretty horrendous.


----------



## hammadj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> I meant "You can only easily see LightBoost *benefit* at triple-digit framerates."
> No kidding, motion blur historically hid stutters. Eliminating motion blur makes stutters far more noticeable. Stutters used to be far more noticeable on CRT's than LCD's, until you got framerates matching refresh rates.
> 
> LightBoost is like a CRT monitor that is limited to 100-to-120Hz refresh rates, since LightBoost only works at those refresh rates. So to eliminate stutters with LightBoost, you really do need that triple-digit framerate, to get a very large _motion blur elimination benefit_ from LightBoost.


I meant I coudn't notice a difference in games/windows. I try to make myself think that there is since everyone says there is, but its not apparent to me. On my OSD, it says 3D mode, and lightboost setting is there. I used the one click lightboost method.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammadj*
> 
> I meant I coudn't notice a difference in games/windows. I try to make myself think that there is since everyone says there is, but its not apparent to me. On my OSD, it says 3D mode, and lightboost setting is there. I used the one click lightboost method.


Sometimes it is a human vision limitation to not see the CRT style zero motion blur effect (or LightBoost effect). e.g. Most people see motion blur elimination via flicker (one strobe per refresh), but it's possible that you don't. Vision varies from person to person. Are you tracking your eyes on the moving objects while the object is moving? You need sufficiently fast (framerate=Hz) motion, such as half-a-screen-per-second, to clearly see the effect. If you can't smoothly track your eyes that fast, it can be hard to see.

But first, let exclude other possibilities:

-- Which Geforce driver are you currently using? There was a driver that halved framerate to 60fps for everything.
-- Also, make sure you disable the "Enable Stereoscopic 3D" checkbox, since sometimes that interferes with LightBoost 2D.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> -- Which Geforce driver are you currently using? There was a driver that halved framerate to 60fps for everything.


Is there any driver compatibility list for lightboost?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Is there any driver compatibility list for lightboost?


Nearly all of them work fine. (And it's more driver-independent with Strobelight).

That said, some drivers have had weird quirks.


----------



## hammadj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Sometimes it is a human vision limitation to not see the CRT style zero motion blur effect (or LightBoost effect). e.g. Most people see motion blur elimination via flicker (one strobe per refresh), but it's possible that you don't. Vision varies from person to person. Are you tracking your eyes on the moving objects while the object is moving? You need sufficiently fast (framerate=Hz) motion, such as half-a-screen-per-second, to clearly see the effect. If you can't smoothly track your eyes that fast, it can be hard to see.
> 
> But first, let exclude other possibilities:
> 
> -- Which Geforce driver are you currently using? There was a driver that halved framerate to 60fps for everything.
> -- Also, make sure you disable the "Enable Stereoscopic 3D" checkbox, since sometimes that interferes with LightBoost 2D.


I can track motion pretty fast, at least one screen per second. According to fraps, TF2 is running at a consistent 120 FPS . I'm using 320.49. Enable 3D is off. Maybe I thought light-boost was over hyped and had my expectations too high. I personally don't think it was worth it for me to switch from red to green and buy a new monitor. Even when scrolling through text in the browser, i can still see motion blur. i imagined it being actually no motion blur.

Edit: WHOAAA! I did something crazy and it made everything better. I uninstalled Nvidia drivers, took out my 760 and put in my 7950's, and then installed AMD drivers. While installing the AMD drivers, the screen flashed a few times, and i was logged out of my account randomly. I logged back in and the AMD drivers weren't installed, but the color of my display looked way better(like it did with lightboost off) and lightboost was on! I can definitely see the improvement of lightboost now. What just happened? Whatever did happen, im super happy with it. The colors look great!

Edit 2: Okay so I installed AMD drivers again, and the colors went back to bad...


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammadj*
> 
> *Edit: WHOAAA! I did something crazy and it made everything better.* I uninstalled Nvidia drivers, took out my 760 and put in my 7950's, and then installed AMD drivers. While installing the AMD drivers, the screen flashed a few times, and i was logged out of my account randomly. I logged back in and the AMD drivers weren't installed, but the color of my display looked way better(like it did with lightboost off) *and lightboost was on! I can definitely see the improvement of lightboost now.* What just happened? Whatever did happen, im super happy with it. The colors look great!


Whoa. An unusual situation. I need to understand this better, so that I can add entries to my LightBoost FAQ if there's a clear/easy fix for your situation. This is very confusing behaviour for LightBoost. It's wholly possible earlier, that 3D Mode is being enabled without LightBoost successfully being enabled.

1. Is your monitor now in 3D mode?
2. You see the LightBoost motion blur elimination effect now?
2. You say your LightBoost colors are good looking? (That's more common with VG278H's and XL2720T's than with VG248QE's).

To help explain things better, *LightBoost is a two-step activation process*:
(A) LightBoost is an nVidia-specific lock built into your computer monitor. 3D Vision drivers (or ToastyX Strobelight) is needed to "unlock" the LightBoost feature. Once it is unlocked, it can easily be turned on/off. You do not need to unlock again until you unplug your monitor. (DONE)
(B) You need Custom Resolutions with a Vertical Total of 1149. (Added either by nVidia Control Panel Custom Resolution, ToastyX CRU.exe, or automatically installed as a "120Hz strobed" in ToasyX Strobelight Setup). You need to re-install these custom strobed modes everytime you upgrade your graphics drivers. Did you do this? (NOT DONE?)

The easiest way is via ToastyX Strobelight. To do (B) you simply run strobelight-setup.exe again, everytime you reinstall your graphics drivers.
That's why both executables are needed, ToastyX strobelight-setup.exe does (B) and ToastyX strobelight.exe does (A).
ToastyX mentioned he is considering merging both executables to make this process easier, possibly with an automatic detection whenever strobed modes are now missing (e.g. due to graphics drivers reintsalled)


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Nearly all of them work fine. (And it's more driver-independent with Strobelight).
> 
> That said, some drivers have had weird quirks.


Doesn't the color quality vary between drivers?

Also, is there any hotkey to change color profiles, or a program with a hotkey like that? That would be really useful with strobe light.


----------



## hammadj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Whoa. An unusual situation. I need to understand this better, so that I can add entries to my LightBoost FAQ if there's a clear/easy fix for your situation. This is very confusing behaviour for LightBoost. It's wholly possible earlier, that 3D Mode is being enabled without LightBoost successfully being enabled.
> 
> 1. Is your monitor now in 3D mode?
> 2. You see the LightBoost motion blur elimination effect now?
> 2. You say your LightBoost colors are good looking? (That's more common with VG278H's and XL2720T's than with VG248QE's).
> 
> To help explain things better, *LightBoost is a two-step activation process*:
> (A) LightBoost is an nVidia-specific lock built into your computer monitor. 3D Vision drivers (or ToastyX Strobelight) is needed to "unlock" the LightBoost feature. Once it is unlocked, it can easily be turned on/off. You do not need to unlock again until you unplug your monitor. (DONE)
> (B) You need Custom Resolutions with a Vertical Total of 1149. (Added either by nVidia Control Panel Custom Resolution, ToastyX CRU.exe, or automatically installed as a "120Hz strobed" in ToasyX Strobelight Setup). You need to re-install these custom strobed modes everytime you upgrade your graphics drivers. Did you do this? (NOT DONE?)
> 
> The easiest way is via ToastyX Strobelight. To do (B) you simply run strobelight-setup.exe again, everytime you reinstall your graphics drivers.
> That's why both executables are needed, ToastyX strobelight-setup.exe does (B) and ToastyX strobelight.exe does (A).
> ToastyX mentioned he is considering merging both executables to make this process easier, possibly with an automatic detection whenever strobed modes are now missing (e.g. due to graphics drivers reintsalled)


Yes, its in 3d mode. Yes, I can see Lightboost in effect, yes, the lightboost colors are alot better than they were with nvidia drivers. But as soon as I installed AMD drivers, they went back to bad. I did install the custom resolution via the one click utility (strobelight-setup.exe)


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammadj*
> 
> Yes, its in 3d mode. Yes, I can see Lightboost in effect, yes, the lightboost colors are alot better than they were with nvidia drivers. But as soon as I installed AMD drivers, they went back to bad. I did install the custom resolution via the one click utility (strobelight-setup.exe)


Can you tell me which version of drivers that the LightBoost colors looked good with?

___________________________________
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Doesn't the color quality vary between drivers?


They occasionally do. Not often. 320.18 is the first such driver that LightBoost colors were observed to vary between drivers (better on XL2720T, worse on VG248QE). But there's no official list.
Quote:


> Also, is there any hotkey to change color profiles, or a program with a hotkey like that? That would be really useful with strobe light.


cpkeeper is one utility, I believe. You might also want to contact ToastyX to request the feature, too


----------



## hatlesschimp

Just got home from work and thought I would give the beta strobelight.exe a go and im having problems. My computer wont show anything on my monitors when windows loads. I installed the latest nvidia drivers before I installed the strobelight hack. What is going on. I can only get into safe startup?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hatlesschimp*
> 
> Just got home from work and thought I would give the beta strobelight.exe a go and im having problems. My computer wont show anything on my monitors when windows loads. I installed the latest nvidia drivers before I installed the strobelight hack. What is going on. I can only get into safe startup?


Did you install both 120Hz strobed and non-strobed modes?
Re-run strobelight-setup.exe and select a different mix of modes -- see if it works this time.
This is often because it's now running a mode that the monitor does not support.
Can you tell me which modes you installed?

Can you also followup with ToastyX in *his tech support forum?*


----------



## M00NIE

Sorry if that has already been answered but this is a huge thread to search through.

Is it normal to lose all options in the nvidia control panel after setting up the light boost with strobe-light? I just today installed SLI with my 570's if that contributes to this.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M00NIE*
> 
> Sorry if that has already been answered but this is a huge thread to search through.
> 
> Is it normal to lose all options in the nvidia control panel after setting up the light boost with strobe-light? I just today installed SLI with my 570's if that contributes to this.


I had that happen once. try changing your refresh rate through the windows settings. It brought the settings back for me.


----------



## M00NIE

Did not help. It seems the refresh rate wont change using windows options, it seems to apply but opening the window again shows 120hz.

This tool seems to be causing me a lot of problems, it randomly reinitializes in games to, turning off the light boost then re enabling it resulting in about 5-10sec of black screen while it sorts it self out. On top of that removing the options in the nvidia control panel.

I just reinstalled my drivers now checking the clean install option, and cant re enable sli. So for now i have disabled strobing, reinstalled drivers again and got my sli back on.

Will try getting light boost enabled using another method, this one doesn't seem to agree with me.


----------



## RemagCP

I was reading the LightBoost How To and it says the motion blur difference between 120hz and 100hz at 10% is only .3 ms.

So my question is, how much would you notice the difference between 120hz and 100hz? Mainly because 100hz/fps is easier to achieve.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RemagCP*
> 
> I was reading the LightBoost How To and it says the motion blur difference between 120hz and 100hz at 10% is only 0.3 ms.
> So my question is, how much would you notice the difference between 120hz and 100hz? Mainly because 100hz/fps is easier to achieve.


The 0.3ms is almost not noticeable at all.
It's akin to adding one-third pixel of motion blur for every 1000 pixels/sec motion. Pretty negligible.

The 1ms difference between LB=10% and LB=100% is more noticeable, though. The full 1ms adds one pixel of motion blur for 1000 pixels/sec motion (Ideal conditions: [email protected] perfectly framerate=Hz matched, zero microstutters, like playing older games such as Team Fortress 2 or Counterstrike).. So adding +1ms of motion blur adds 2 pixels of motion blur for 2000 pixels/second motion -- one full screen width per second -- this is just about noticeable during high-speed strafing motion with high-detail wall textures -- but not everyone sees it. It's impressive that the human vision *can* see a 1ms motion blur difference, at least under the more ideal motion conditions. Easier to see in motion tests such as PixPerAn, during perfectly fluid motion.

The bigger issue is input lag. There's less input lag at 120Hz than at 100Hz.
That said, 100Hz can be better looking for solo gameplay during times when your GPU cannot keep up at [email protected] (especially if you prefer to play with VSYNC ON or Adaptive VSYNC -- if you prefer microstutter-free motion). For competitive gameplay, stick to 120Hz VSYNC OFF -- that's lower input lag.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> The 1ms difference between LB=10% and LB=100% is more noticeable, though. The full 1ms adds one pixel of motion blur for 1000 pixels/sec motion (Ideal conditions: [email protected] perfectly framerate=Hz matched, zero microstutters, like playing older games such as Team Fortress 2 or Counterstrike).. So adding +1ms of motion blur adds 2 pixels of motion blur for 2000 pixels/second motion -- one full screen width per second -- this is just about noticeable during high-speed strafing motion with high-detail wall textures -- but not everyone sees it. It's impressive that the human vision *can* see a 1ms motion blur difference, at least under the more ideal motion conditions. Easier to see in motion tests such as PixPerAn, during perfectly fluid motion.


The difference between 100% lightboost and 10% light boost is still pretty subtle. I can't tell a difference at all, even when I know what I'm looking for.


----------



## hamzatm

Indeed, I'm not sure I would notice it outside PixPerAn, but I haven't actively tested it like that in a while. Pretty happy with my setup.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> The difference between 100% lightboost and 10% light boost is still pretty subtle. I can't tell a difference at all, even when I know what I'm looking for.


You can tell a difference when looking at the edges of textures--especially with text or sharp edges. It's easiest to notice with text, though, when scrolling or panning..

It's also quite easy to notice when looking at people's name tags while scrolling in something like Starcraft 2 or MOBA, when using vsync. It's a LOT easier to notice the difference at 100hz between 10% to 100%, than at 120hz, as mentioned above.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> You can tell a difference when looking at the edges of textures--especially with text or sharp edges. It's easiest to notice with text, though, when scrolling or panning..
> 
> It's also quite easy to notice when looking at people's name tags while scrolling in something like Starcraft 2 or MOBA, when using vsync. It's a LOT easier to notice the difference at 100hz between 10% to 100%, than at 120hz, as mentioned above.


One other problem is that in any game where I would want to sacrifice color for smoothness, I would not be using Vsync, so the stutter that causes makes the image less smooth.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Indeed, I'm not sure I would notice it outside PixPerAn, but I haven't actively tested it like that in a while. Pretty happy with my setup.


It is also game dependent.

I found it quite easy to notice LB=10% versus LB=100% with *Borderlands 2 during VSYNC ON*, in areas I'm able to play framerate=Hz ([email protected] or [email protected], solo gameplay, view distance slightly reduced to keep framerate high, use FXAA to keep framerate high). The thin black lines in Borderlands / Borderlands 2 are MUCH clearer during fast strafing / fast turns during LB=10% than LB=100%. One-pixel-thick black lines easily get motion-blurred to 2-pixels-thick or 3-pixels thick, while LB=10% prevents that from happening.

1 pixel of motion blur makes almost no difference with blurry textures, but 1 pixel of motion blur becomes noticeable with high-contrast edges. I even actually just barely notice 0.3 pixels of motion blur, as I do actually notice a difference between LB=10% and LB=40% when playing Borderlands 2, VSYNC ON, during framerate=Hz. The image quality/smoothness improves in Borderlands 2 during VSYNC ON to the point that the motion is so smooth (especially keyboard strafe left/right), that I start to notice the difference in small adjustments of the LB setting. I actually begin to notice 0.3 pixels of motion blur in that specific game. Very, very, very barely. But I get a slight amount of input lag that affects competitive gameplay, but I don't feel it for solo gameplay except when framerate falls. (Can also use Adaptive VSYNC too).

In most dungeon games that are murky, dull, low-contrast, blurry textures, I cannot tell apart LB=10% and LB=100%. But Borderlands 2 is one of those games that makes LB=10% versus LB=100% very noticeably clearer looking (at least during framerate=Hz operation, such as when VSYNC is on, and use FXAA) due to all the thin black lines.


----------



## raum

Hi, I cannot get to work lightboost with my VG248QE.
I'm running it on a laptop which has VGA and HDMI only, no DVI. So I plugged it in to HDMI. Tried every method above (I don't have glasses) , but I cannot get to have refresh rates higher than 60. And I cannot get Lightbosst active (it is greyed out by default) in monitor's OSD menu.

While trying methods there were 2 things i noticed;
-Nvidia drivers start to show DVI connection instead of HDMI after the hack.
-While trying different methods above a few times, I was once able to enable stereoscopic 3d turn on and off. But it requires setting up again now after I restore the settings to defaults.

Specs;
Win7 x64 Home prem
Gtx460m


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raum*
> 
> Hi, I cannot get to work lightboost with my VG248QE.
> I'm running it on a laptop which has VGA and HDMI only, no DVI. So I plugged it in to HDMI. Tried every method above (I don't have glasses) , but I cannot get to have refresh rates higher than 60. And I cannot get Lightbosst active (it is greyed out by default) in monitor's OSD menu.
> 
> While trying methods there were 2 things i noticed;
> -Nvidia drivers start to show DVI connection instead of HDMI after the hack.
> -While trying different methods above a few times, I was once able to enable stereoscopic 3d turn on and off. But it requires setting up again now after I restore the settings to defaults.
> 
> Specs;
> Win7 x64 Home prem
> Gtx460m


It doesn't work with hdmi, it has to be dual link dvi or displayport.


----------



## raum

Damnit, I shouldn't have bought this monitor in such a rush, without researching more... Although I think I've read that it's possible.

This guy claims that 1.4b might do the work: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/331322-33-120hz-hdmi#7610410
And in wikipedia it says something backing up that guy: "HDMI 1.4b was released on October 11, 2011.[150] One of the new features is that it adds support to 1080p video at 120 Hz."

Does this mean it will be possible if i get a 1.4b cable?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raum*
> 
> Damnit, I shouldn't have bought this monitor in such a rush, without researching more... Although I think I've read that it's possible.
> 
> This guy claims that 1.4b might do the work: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/331322-33-120hz-hdmi#7610410
> And in wikipedia it says something backing up that guy: "HDMI 1.4b was released on October 11, 2011.[150] One of the new features is that it adds support to 1080p video at 120 Hz."
> 
> Does this mean it will be possible if i get a 1.4b cable?


Maybe if your laptop had a 1.4b HDMI port.


----------



## Bcider

Sometimes when I'm playing games such as CS GO I get really bad choppiness out of nowhere. It's like my game starts chugging all of a sudden. To fix it I quickly disable lightboost and then re enable it. It's weird and only happens about once every few hours of play.


----------



## raum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Maybe if your laptop had a 1.4b HDMI port.


I doubt my 2 year old Asus g73sw-a1 has 1.4b support. BTW, does VG248QE's HDMI input support 1.4b anyway?

Ok, so I need a workaround here then. What if i get a PCMCIA or a USB Card(?) that has a DVI or DisplayPort on it and plug it to my laptop?


----------



## PCM2

No current monitors, including the VG248QE, feature HDMI 1.4b. You need to use DVI or DisplayPort to take advantage of the full refresh rate and technologies that use it 'out of the box'.


----------



## kevinsbane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> No current monitors, including the VG248QE, feature HDMI 1.4b. You need to use DVI or DisplayPort to take advantage of the full refresh rate and technologies that use it 'out of the box'.


Not even the Benq XL2420tx? I know the XL2420t doesn't support 120hz over HDMI, but supposedly the more expensive XL2420t*x* does?


----------



## raum

Can I use something like http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008CXFM64 to have proper DVI or DP support for 120hz lightboost mode?


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevinsbane*
> 
> Not even the Benq XL2420tx? I know the XL2420t doesn't support 120hz over HDMI, but supposedly the more expensive XL2420t*x* does?


The difference between the 2420t and tx is the tx has a built in 3d emitter other than that it's the same monitor.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> No current monitors, including the VG248QE, feature HDMI 1.4b. You need to use DVI or DisplayPort to take advantage of the full refresh rate and technologies that use it 'out of the box'.


Someone was able to overclock the HDMI connection of one of the 120Hz monitor (forgot which) to 120Hz, using the *HDTV Refresh Rate Overclocking HOWTO*. You need direct HDMI-to-HDMI, from the HDMI port of the graphics card, to the HDMI port of the display. Sometimes [email protected] works. Not always, but HDMI 1.3a has the bandwidth to allow it, just not an officially documented/supported mode.

Not guaranteed to work. But it has worked sometimes before even with HDMI 1.3 chips.


----------



## mdrejhon

*Better LightBoost Color for VG248QE?*

Someone I trust (the moderator of HardwareCanucks, a Canadian computer discussion forum), says that the VG248QE now has better LightBoost colors with the latest nVidia drivers.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mark Rejhon*
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lowfat*
> The last few Nvidia driver releases fixed poor colours for me. I can no longer tell the difference between Lightboost on or off with my display.
> 
> 
> 
> lowfat, that is *good news* for the VG248QE monitors! Which driver version?
Click to expand...

I'm still trying to confirm which nVidia driver version, but has anyone else noticed better LightBoost colors with newer 320.49 drivers? I did report directly to nVidia's Driver Team forums with a copy of NCX's (MenancingTuba) flawed colorimeter results, and I think that caught nVidia's attention.









Any confirmations?


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Someone was able to overclock the HDMI connection of one of the 120Hz monitor (forgot which) to 120Hz, using the *HDTV Refresh Rate Overclocking HOWTO*. You need direct HDMI-to-HDMI, from the HDMI port of the graphics card, to the HDMI port of the display. Sometimes [email protected] works. Not always, but HDMI 1.3a has the bandwidth to allow it, just not an officially documented/supported mode.
> 
> Not guaranteed to work. But it has worked sometimes before even with HDMI 1.3 chips.


Hence the 'out of the box'.







It was never about bandwidth limitations but rather what the ports were (apparently artificially) limited to doing or not doing according to certain standards. I hate HDMI for this and other reasons.


----------



## raum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Someone was able to overclock the HDMI connection of one of the 120Hz monitor (forgot which) to 120Hz, using the *HDTV Refresh Rate Overclocking HOWTO*. You need direct HDMI-to-HDMI, from the HDMI port of the graphics card, to the HDMI port of the display. Sometimes [email protected] works. Not always, but HDMI 1.3a has the bandwidth to allow it, just not an officially documented/supported mode.
> 
> Not guaranteed to work. But it has worked sometimes before even with HDMI 1.3 chips.


Thanks for the tip! I've managed to get up to 85hz on my VG247QE with Evga pixel clock OC using this HDMI cable http://www.thewarehouse.co.nz/red/catalog/product/Sony-1-Metre-High-Speed-HDMI-Cable-with-Ethernet-DLCHE10C?SKU=1703681

However I cannot reach higher refresh rates like 100 or 120. Do you think that is because the cable version is 1.3? I cannot use 720p somehow it reverts back to 1080p when I try 120hz @ 720p resolution.


----------



## hatlesschimp

i think that it will be the pcb stopping it. i achieved simlar results with another monitor. 85 hz was borderline and 82hz was perfect


----------



## raum

Weird thing. I grabbed a 1.4a cable and tried it
Now the monitor gives Out of range error when i try 100hz, but it gives "HDMI no signal" when i try 120hz.
That make me think the cable doesnt support [email protected], but then again it supports 100hz and it's certain that monitor also supports that as well

Edit: even weirder, when i use a 1.3 cable, it gives "out of range" error at each refresh rate (100/120). No "HDMI no signal" errors.


----------



## Demoted

I am using the VG248QE and enabling lightboost with all the required settings gives me these weird vertical green and sometimes purple lines in whatever game or application i'm running. The lines are not moving at all, I have tried different ICC profiles and adjusting colors in the NVIDIA control panel, but nothing can get these lines to go away. Any thoughts?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Demoted*
> 
> I am using the VG248QE and enabling lightboost with all the required settings gives me these weird vertical green and sometimes purple lines in whatever game or application i'm running. The lines are not moving at all, I have tried different ICC profiles and adjusting colors in the NVIDIA control panel, but nothing can get these lines to go away. Any thoughts?


Do you have a photo? Can you take one and post it?

You may wish to get the monitor exchanged. I suspect this is a defect. Try a different DVI-D cable too, just in case it's the culprit.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Demoted*
> 
> I am using the VG248QE and enabling lightboost with all the required settings gives me these weird vertical green and sometimes purple lines in whatever game or application i'm running. The lines are not moving at all, I have tried different ICC profiles and adjusting colors in the NVIDIA control panel, but nothing can get these lines to go away. Any thoughts?


Are they alternating light and dark lines down the screen? I have that sometimes with lightboost enabled, although it's pretty subtle.


----------



## Demoted

Here is what i'm seeing throughout the entire screen.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Someone was able to overclock the HDMI connection of one of the 120Hz monitor (forgot which) to 120Hz, using the *HDTV Refresh Rate Overclocking HOWTO*. You need direct HDMI-to-HDMI, from the HDMI port of the graphics card, to the HDMI port of the display. Sometimes [email protected] works. Not always, but HDMI 1.3a has the bandwidth to allow it, just not an officially documented/supported mode.
> 
> Not guaranteed to work. But it has worked sometimes before even with HDMI 1.3 chips.


Yes, I have been able to overclock HDMI and single-link DVI (essentially the same) to gain enough bandwidth to allow 120 Hz 1080P. It's how I got 120 Hz 5x1 portrait working. Your mileage may vary on the card and cable being used.


----------



## mdrejhon

The beta version of the Blur Busters UFO Motion Tests have launched.
It's a free web-based PixPerAn clone.

*www.testufo.com*

Fun tests, try these with LightBoost ON/OFF
- TestUFO: 30fps vs 60fps vs 120fps
- TestUFO: Moving Photo
- TestUFO: Scrolling Text
- TestUFO: Eye Tracking Demo

For 120fps, use Chrome (any) or FireFox 24+ (pre-beta), the only browsers supporting 120Hz animations. *Test your browser's 120Hz support*. Quit all applications and background pages, to stop the stutters. I will probably eventually split this off into a separate thread since these motion tests interest all PixPerAn users, but this is a beta test and I want LightBoost users to be the first to test this.

It's good for diagnosing LightBoost, too!


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> The beta version of the Blur Busters UFO Motion Tests have launched.
> It's a free web-based PixPerAn clone.
> 
> *www.testufo.com*
> 
> Fun tests, try these with LightBoost ON/OFF
> - TestUFO: 30fps vs 60fps vs 120fps
> - TestUFO: Moving Photo
> - TestUFO: Scrolling Text
> - TestUFO: Eye Tracking Demo
> 
> For 120fps, use Chrome (any) or FireFox 24+ (pre-beta), the only browsers supporting 120Hz animations. *Test your browser's 120Hz support*. Quit all applications and background pages, to stop the stutters. I will probably eventually split this off into a separate thread since these motion tests interest all PixPerAn users, but this is a beta test and I want LightBoost users to be the first to test this.
> 
> It's good for diagnosing LightBoost, too!


Good stuff


----------



## mdrejhon

*Showing Off LightBoost To Computer Neophytes*

*TestUFO makes it easy to show off LightBoost to the less computer-literate.* If you want to show friends and family members how big a difference LightBoost makes:

1. Install ToastyX Strobelight with hotkeys enabled.
_To do this, install BOTH 120Hz(strobed) plus 121Hz or 144Hz in Strobelight Setup. This enables you to turn ON/OFF Lightboost via hotkeys._

2. Reboot, run Strobelight. Lightbulb will show in system tray.
_For showoff purposes, you may want to pre-adjust brightness (NON-lightboost) to approximately equal the brightness of LightBoost=100%_

3. Load TestUFO: Moving Photo at http://www.testufo.com/#test=photo
_Use Chrome browser, or the new Opera 15+, or the new FireFox 24+ pre-Beta. These web browsers have 120Hz VSYNC support_

4. While viewing the moving photo, turn ON/OFF LightBoost
Control+Alt+Plus -- Turn ON LightBoost
Control+Alt+Minus -- Turn OFF LightBoost
Dramatic difference! The moing photo is much clearer with LightBoost enabled.

Everyone I have showed this too, have instantly noticed the LightBoost motion clarity difference; even to people barely use computers.

_____________________

Bonus extra step to show off: Easily see the tiny motion clarity difference between LightBoost=10% and LightBoost=100% by speeding up the photo to 1440 pixels/second, then hitting Control+Alt+0 versus Control+Alt+1. This switches between LightBoost 100% and LightBoost=10%. You will see window frames become clearer -- especially in the castle at the top of the photo! That's your human eyes seeing the 1ms difference between LB=10% versus LB=100%. (1440pixels/sec -- 1 milliseconds translates to 1.44 pixels of extra motion blur -- enough to see window frames blurring at LB=100%)


----------



## raum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Yes, I have been able to overclock HDMI and single-link DVI (essentially the same) to gain enough bandwidth to allow 120 Hz 1080P. It's how I got 120 Hz 5x1 portrait working. Your mileage may vary on the card and cable being used.


Hey I've been unsuccessful with going above 85hz @ 1080 with HDMI. What could be the problem, I've tried different cables.


----------



## mdrejhon

Overclocking single-link DVI to [email protected] is not very easy to do, you need the right graphics card (DVI transmitter chip), a good DVI cable, and the right display (DVI receiver chip). The whole chain needs to be top-notch in order for it to work, and even so, no guarantees.

Also, HDMI has the bandwidth of dual-link DVI, so the factors for HDMI is slightly different. But when using a single-link HDMI to DVI adaptor (most are single-link), then this is also all relevant. All bleeding edge territory.

raum, what graphics cards are you using? It may not be able to overclock its own single-link DVI to [email protected] Vega is using GeForce Titan's.


----------



## raum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Overclocking single-link DVI to [email protected] is not very easy to do, you need the right graphics card (DVI transmitter chip), a good DVI cable, and the right display (DVI receiver chip). The whole chain needs to be top-notch in order for it to work, and even so, no guarantees.
> 
> Also, HDMI has the bandwidth of dual-link DVI, so the factors for HDMI is slightly different. But when using a single-link HDMI to DVI adaptor (most are single-link), then this is also all relevant. All bleeding edge territory.
> 
> raum, what graphics cards are you using? It may not be able to overclock its own single-link DVI to [email protected] Vega is using GeForce Titan's.


I'm using a gtx460m in an Asus g73sw laptop. Does this mean I can't make it happen? :]
I have one more question though, would any trick be possible using VGA?

I'm planning to buy a desktop PC instead of this laptop if I can't manage this to work (Mostly bought the monitor because of 120hz + LB)


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raum*
> 
> I'm using a gtx460m in an Asus g73sw laptop. Does this mean I can't make it happen? :]
> I have one more question though, would any trick be possible using VGA?


It depends. Ability of getting [email protected] from a laptop varies from laptop to laptop. Some laptops can do it, others cannot.

The most obvious manufacturer-supported giveaway is to check is "Does this laptop support an external 3D Vision monitor?" If the laptop advertises support for 3D Vision on external monitors -- then yes, it should be one of those laptops that can do [email protected] on an external monitor. There's nothing stopping VGA from doing 120Hz if there's no dotclock limitation limiting that from happening, but the monitor might not accept 120Hz on its VGA input.


----------



## raum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> It depends. Ability of getting [email protected] from a laptop varies from laptop to laptop. Some laptops can do it, others cannot.
> 
> The most obvious manufacturer-supported giveaway is to check is "Does this laptop support an external 3D Vision monitor?" If the laptop advertises support for 3D Vision on external monitors -- then yes, it should be one of those laptops that can do [email protected] on an external monitor. There's nothing stopping VGA from doing 120Hz if there's no dotclock limitation limiting that from happening, but the monitor might not accept 120Hz on its VGA input.


Yeah, there are "nvidia 3dtv play" stickers on it.







And the gtx460m should be fine with 3d. So I don't know why I'm not able to make it work over HDMI (tried a few 1.3a/b and a 1.4a cable)
I'm using a VG248QE, so it has no VGA input. I should try it with a single link DVI to VGA cable then, I guess?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raum*
> 
> Yeah, there are "nvidia 3dtv play" stickers on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the gtx460m should be fine with 3d. So I don't know why I'm not able to make it work over HDMI (tried a few 1.3a/b and a 1.4a cable)
> I'm using a VG248QE, so it has no VGA input. I should try it with a single link DVI to VGA cable then, I guess?


Yes, such a cable is actually DVI-A or DVI-I .... Doesn't matter if it is single link or dual link, since the VGA goes over separate wires on the cable.


----------



## CallsignVega

http://www.testufo.com/ is now working so I am compiling my notes on the new XL2420TE vs VG248QE vs XL2720T and should have the info out soon.


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> http://www.testufo.com/ is now working so I am compiling my notes on the new XL2420TE vs VG248QE vs XL2720T and should have the info out soon.


Great news can't wait for the comparison!


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> http://www.testufo.com/ is now working so I am compiling my notes on the new XL2420TE vs VG248QE vs XL2720T and should have the info out soon.


Excellent, look forward to it!


----------



## CallsignVega

Just a small comparison in Lightboost mode between the 24" 144 Hz Asus VG248QE (this one has matte film removed), the new 24" 144 Hz BenQ XL2420TE with zero-PWM and the 27" 120 Hz BenQ XL2720T.

I was interested in doing a little comparison due to the seemingly wide variances in picture quality and ghosting between monitors in Lightboost mode. I've just received three XL2420TE which are new models and I hoped would bring good image quality and low Lightboost ghosting in one package.

Please be advised that pictures and videos usually cannot do justice versus "real world" viewing and comparison of the monitors, so I will be adding commentary to the media. All monitors are set to 120 Hz, 10% Lightboost mode (the fastest) and 50% contrast ratio. I found on all three models if you strayed too far off from 50% contrast, the picture quality suffered too much.

These tests are done with driver 326.19. I also tested a much older driver to see if it helped the 24" monitors picture quality, but it did not.

Firstly, the XL2420TE does in fact use the same exact panel as the BenQ XL2411T and the Asus VG248QE. This is good in the regard of least ghosting, but is also bad in the picture quality department.

All images and video are the XL2720T on the left, the XL2420TE in the center and the VG248QE on the right.

http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0002-14.jpg.html

This is a completely dark room and once again I would like to point out a camera _will_ overexpose black levels and back light bleed versus real world viewing. For a point of reference, the Xl2720T in real world viewing has a nice, quite black and very uniform black screen. It is very impressive for it to look that good in Lightboost mode.

The XL2420TE in the center has the worse "blacks" and are actually more of a dark grey than anything. The VG248QE on the right was about 60% the strength of the Xl2420TE, so still quite far from the blacks on the XL2720T. One annoying aspect of the "grey-ness" of the blacks on the 24" models is that it isn't very uniform and for some unusual reason I have yet to discover, only happens in LB mode.

In this video you can see the XL2720T's better blacks and contrast:






You can also see the same thing in this next video. The XL2720T does a very good job with this black test with deep blacks and proper subtle differences between the darkest blocks. The other two overexposing and showing off their poor contrast with large bright gradients to the black boxes with the XL2420TE once again trailing the pack:






http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0007-10.jpg.html

Surprisingly, whites are quite accurate in this photo. Even more surprising is that the best "whites" come from the Xl2420TE. The other two monitors were a bit "muddier-red" in their whites, but no adjustment's were made in NVIDIA control panel to keep the comparison on an even footing.

Xl2720T showing off it's better contrast in the white test, with blocks 247 through 251 outpacing the other two:






http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0009-9.jpg.html

In this picture is the contrast on a white web site. Although the Xl2420T in the center had the best whites, it also had the most "bleached out" contrast and was less pleasing on the eyes to read said web site.

Image quality test:






Rank: #1 XL2720T, #2 de-matted VG248QE, #3 XL2420TE.

Moving on to motion quality and ghosting. All monitors tested at a 1.4ms MPRT as they should. I tried taking "ghosting" video but at 60 FPS, the camera did not capture what I feel is a good enough representation. Although, I did get some fairly good images of particular effects seen.

All motion tests are courtesy of www.testufo.com from Mark, the designer of www.blurbusters.com

Here is the XL2720T under the very demanding "Marquee" test that is very unforgiving for ghosting on all display types:

http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0027-2.jpg.html

This is where the Xl2720T starts to run into some issues. It does have a quite pronounced ghost and in real life actually looks a bit worse than this image.

Both the XL2420TE and the VG248QE are almost perfect in this test:

http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0030-1.jpg.html

http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0031-2.jpg.html

Here, in the vertical scrolling the XL2720T once again falls behind the other two in these images:

http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0032-2.jpg.html
http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0035-1.jpg.html

The 24" models coming out crystal clear:

http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0036-1.jpg.html
http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0037-1.jpg.html
http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0038-1.jpg.html
http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0039-1.jpg.html

More ghosting tests in order from monitors left to right using a very high shutter speed:

http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0044-1.jpg.html
http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0045.jpg.html
http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0046-1.jpg.html

Next set:

http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0049.jpg.html
http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0051.jpg.html
http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0052.jpg.html

And the last set:

http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0063.jpg.html
http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0065.jpg.html
http://s119.photobucket.com/user/callsign_vega/media/SANY0068.jpg.html

So once again, what we have here is a compromise and what do you prioritize more. The 24" models are clearly the best if ghosting is of a concern to you. The Xl2720T has quite a bit better picture then the 24" models, but you do pay a price with the ghosting. One thing to note with the Xl2420TE is it did have some "scan lines" in the corners, and also produced a strange "ripple effect" during movement that the two other display did not have. This "ripple" is hard to describe, and the only reason I can think that the Xl2420TE has it is because of the new LED's or controller they used in this model. It was quite annoying and another reason to not recommend this model for Lightboost.

As for the XL2420TE, I would not recommend the monitor if you are going to be using Lightboost mode. The Zero-PWM feature does not help here and it's $150 more than the VG248QE. The Xl2420TE did look fine in normal 144 Hz mode and didn't have the huge blacks/contrast issues. It will be up to you if the zero-PWM flicker feature is worth the extra $150 and you want to run normal non-Lightboost 144 Hz.

Personally, I view the jump from 144 Hz non-LB to 120 Hz LB about as big of a jump in motion clarity as going from 60 Hz to 120 Hz non-LB.

One last video of the monitors, this time in Falcon 4 BMS:






How much did the matte-removal on the VG248QE help it out versus the XL2420TE? Since they have the same panel, apparently quite a bit. I did not have a stock VG248QE to test against. Some online like Mark have mentioned that adjusting the contrast to certain values can alleviate some of the ghosting on the Asus VG278HE model that undoubtedly has the same panel as the XL2720T. I did not find this the case with the BenQ. The ghosting was at all contrast levels, and straying too far from the middle mark in either direction negatively affected image quality.

After playing some games on all three monitor's, I have decided that the image quality increase on the BenQ XL2720T was worth the trade-off with the ghosting. This came in no small part to the ghosting only happening on light colored images, and the ghosting was actually sometimes less apparent than the 24" models on dark images. In no small part to the XL2720T being 27", which will allow me to push the 3x portrait setup further back on my desk. This will allow a U2413 IPS panel to swing in front of it an a monitor arm for web surfing as it has zero-PWM, great picture quality and a wonderful "semi-gloss" AR film.

One thing to note is ghosting is actually different across the top to the bottom on the 24" panels. This is a strange phenomenon I found out once I rotated all three monitors to portrait. The XL2720T ghosting stayed the same. Pretty universal across the screen. The center of the 24" models still has zero ghosting, but at the very sides "top and bottom in landscape", ghosting similar to the normal Xl2720T's appeared. Since the ghosting was no longer universally better in portrait mode, that also had me lean towards the better picture quality of the big BenQ.

To recap:

My 3x XL2420TE's are going back. I'd only recommend this monitor if you don't want Lightboost and are sensitive to PWM Flicker.

The Asus VG248QE is still the best value at a current pricing of $250. This is some half the cost of the XL2720T.

I have a Asus VG278HE arriving tomorrow to pit against the XL2720T. The victor will end up as my 3x 120 Hz portrait Lightboost setup replacement. Stay tuned!


----------



## socketus

Wow ! great work, nuff said







thanks !


----------



## trhead

Thank you for this review







+REP


----------



## mdrejhon

Vega, thanks for torture testing the Test UFO!

Here are the web-based motion test that Vega used in his review:

Marquee ............. www.testufo.com/#test=framerates-marquee
Scrolling Text ...... www.testufo.com/#test=framerates-text
Ghosting ............. www.testufo.com/#test=ghosting
Eiffel Tower ......... www.testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=photo-eiffel.jpg
Chase Test .......... www.testufo.com/#test=chase

Google Chrome browser is preferred as it does [email protected], or use a recent VSYNC-supported web browser. Make sure you enable/disable LightBoost during these tests, to see the improvement LightBoost gives. If you have ToastyX Strobelight installed (with multiple refresh rates in strobelight setup), use Ctrl+Alt+Plus and Ctrl-Alt+Minus to turn ON/OFF LightBoost. Even while the web page is running.


----------



## Arc0s

Great comparison vega!


----------



## Art Vanelay

It might be because ActualMultipleMonitors does not like Google Chrome, but that UFO test does not work at all for me.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> It might be because ActualMultipleMonitors does not like Google Chrome, but that UFO test does not work at all.


Art, thank you for beta testing www.testufo.com. To help me improve Test UFO:

Did you mean Chrome does not work at all, or Chrome is running very stuttery? Chrome is usually great, but it has been known to do quite a lot of stutters sometimes.

(1) In Chrome, can you type "chrome://gpu" in the address bar, and send me info to mark[at]blurbusters.com or by PM?
(2) In Chrome, can you run http://www.testufo.com/#test=animation-time-graph and email me a screenshot of that to mark[at]blurbusters.com ?
(3) Can you try out FireFox 24+ pre-beta; it seems to work well on the multimonitor setups that Chrome seems to dislike.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Art, thank you for beta testing the UFO test. To help me improve Test UFO:
> 
> Did you mean Chrome does not work at all, or Chrome is running very stuttery? Chrome is usually great, but it has been known to do quite a lot of stutters sometimes.
> 
> (1) In Chrome, can you type "chrome://gpu" in the address bar, and send me info to mark[at]blurbusters.com or by PM?
> (2) In Chrome, can you run http://www.testufo.com/#test=animation-time-graph and email me a screenshot of that to mark[at]blurbusters.com ?
> (3) Can you try out FireFox 24+ pre-beta; it seems to work well on the multimonitor setups that Chrome seems to dislike.


I plugged the second display into my graphics card, instead of the IGPU, and it actually runs now.

Actual Multiple Monitors and Chrome may actually not hate each other.

Chrome doesn't seem to like having windows open on two monitor, though. The test doesn't run at the correct frame rate, if I have chrome open on both monitors.


----------



## CallsignVega

Mark, I think I may have found a potential issue I was having with www.testufo.com

Apparently my Titan's would not "throttle up" when Chrome demands the performance increase to run the tests at 120 FPS. Especially with multi-monitor enabled. My Titan's would stay at idle clocks more or less. I went into EVGA PrecisionX and under "voltage", there is something called K-Boost. Turning this on puts your GPU into full 3D clock performance mode. This allows me to run at full speed and even stretch the tests over three monitors and maintain 120 FPS.


----------



## CallsignVega

Well, this will be quick!

Got the Asus VG278HE in to compare against the BenQ XL2720T for the king of Lightboost monitors. I started to take some pictures until I realized the screen differences were so subtle that you couldn't even tell them apart in the photo's.

Pretty much makes sense, since the panels used are identical. Firstly, the contrast reference points for the screens are different. When I first turned on the Asus, it's contrast was set at 50 just like the BenQ. The Asus looked pretty bad and dim-muddy. I then realized both manufacturers just used a different contrast reference. Setting the contrast on the Asus to 84 pretty much matched the contrast setting on the BenQ of 50 to the T. So the BenQ has a wider contrast setting range.

With the Asus at 84 contrast and the BenQ at 50, the motion trailing/ghosting characteristics etc were fairly identical. For overall picture quality, I would ever so slightly give the edge to the BenQ. Both monitors have really impressive blacks in Lightboost mode with little back light bleed and great uniformity, especially compared to all of the 24" Lightboost monitors out there. Really between these two, the only differences are:

1. Contrast reference points, with the BenQ having a much better "center" reference.
2. Both have nice height adjustable/rotatable stands so it's a wash there. I personally like the BenQ design better.
3. On screen controls and buttons. Asus using mechanical buttons and BenQ using touch sensitive. I prefer the Asus mechanical as they always just work.
4. BenQ has a little green LED that shows when Lightboost is working. The Asus does not. Very handy!
5. As I write this, the Asus on Amazon is $381, the BenQ $472. A difference of a not insignificant $91.
6. The BenQ has a Displayport which makes the monitor more flexible which I like (and I wager more expensive). The only 120Hz capable interface the Asus has is Dual Link-DVI which could limit you in configurations and future GPU's.
7. The BenQ has a little base control "gadget", but I don't find it fairly useful now that ToastyX's utility is out in which you can change all Lightboost monitors brightness right from the task-bar. Basically the only control you ever have to touch once you get your LB monitor set up is the power button if you want to turn them on and off and not just power save mode.

Well, there you have it. Vega's top Lightboost monitor as of summer 2013 is the BenQ XL2720T. Now I am off to remove the matte-film and de-bezel three of these bad boys for my new NVIDIA Surround setup.

(PS, if anyone knows a shop that can do custom work with glass/mirror shapes, or knows how to cut glass plate at a 45 degree angle for a bezel-mask project please let me know).


----------



## Moragg

That was certainly impressive. Here's my suggestion:

If your monitor is 120Hz, then for BFI compare 120Hz with 60Hz BFI vs 60Hz. This would be much more interesting to see which one looks better.

Also, for those of us who can't push 120Hz but can push lower framerates, It'd be good if we could use 60Hz Vsync with BFI to improve the IQ.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I plugged the second display into my graphics card, instead of the IGPU, and it actually runs now.
> Actual Multiple Monitors and Chrome may actually not hate each other.


Thanks, glad to know that this solved the problem.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Chrome doesn't seem to like having windows open on two monitor, though. The test doesn't run at the correct frame rate, if I have chrome open on both monitors.


Very interesting, I'll have to add this to a TestUFO FAQ to warn people with multimonitor setups.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> That was certainly impressive.


Thanks for the compliment about TestUFO!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> Here's my suggestion:
> If your monitor is 120Hz, then for BFI compare 120Hz with 60Hz BFI vs 60Hz. This would be much more interesting to see which one looks better.


Good idea, that is something I will look into doing in the future.

[email protected] will always look best.
[email protected] BFI will have the same amount of motion blur as [email protected], at least on 2ms TN's
[email protected] without BFI will have twice as much motion blur in non-LightBoost mode, or a double-image effect with LightBoost/CRT.

BFI is useful if you need 60fps with the full LightBoost effect. (e.g. MAME).


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> 50 just like the BenQ. The Asus looked pretty bad and dim-muddy. I then realized both manufacturers just used a different contrast reference. Setting the contrast on the Asus to 84 pretty much matched the contrast setting on the BenQ of 50 to the T. So the BenQ has a wider contrast setting range.


Actually, the ASUS may have a much more useful contrast range than the BENQ, but I'm not 100% sure if the VG278HE behaves the same as the VG278H in terms of contrast behavior. When I raise to 94, it is exactly at the white clipping point, and anything higher clips white. So above 94 is useless on the ASUS. Likewise, anything much above 50 may be useless on the BENQ. If this is true on the VG278HE too, then the ASUS has a wider useful contrast range.

When I lower my ASUS all the way down to about 50% or 45%, there is no visible ghosting or overdrive in the TestUFO *Eiffel Tower Test* on my VG278H.


----------



## CallsignVega

No, the white clipping point was not near the setting of 84 on the Asus and 50 on the BenQ. The default setting of 50 on the Asus looked terrible and was like a contrast setting of 15 on the BenQ. Very dark and dingy, practically unusable. The VG278HE may have different electronics than the regular H model.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> No, the white clipping point was not near the setting of 84 on the Asus and 50 on the BenQ. The default setting of 50 on the Asus looked terrible and was like a contrast setting of 15 on the BenQ. Very dark and dingy, practically unusable. The VG278HE may have different electronics than the regular H model.


I take it you weren't fond of the XL2420TE? Looking at your youtube videos the colors/contrast was weaker then your Asus QE (then again that has the matte film removed)


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> [email protected] will always look best.
> [email protected] BFI will have the same amount of motion blur as [email protected], at least on 2ms TN's
> [email protected] without BFI will have twice as much motion blur in non-LightBoost mode, or a double-image effect with LightBoost/CRT.
> 
> BFI is useful if you need 60fps with the full LightBoost effect. (e.g. MAME).


I have an X-Star at 120Hz, and what I was mostly interested in was BFI gaming. For those of us who can't push top framerates I would really like 60Hz (by vsync) with BFI to reduce motion blur. That's probably require game devs and/or nvidia and amd to do something though.


----------



## socketus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> That was certainly impressive. Here's my suggestion:
> 
> If your monitor is 120Hz, then for *BFI* compare 120Hz with 60Hz BFI vs 60Hz. This would be much more interesting to see which one looks better.
> 
> Also, for those of us who can't push 120Hz but can push lower framerates, It'd be good if we could use 60Hz Vsync with *BFI* to improve the IQ.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Thanks, glad to know that this solved the problem.
> Very interesting, I'll have to add this to a TestUFO FAQ to warn people with multimonitor setups.
> Thanks for the compliment about TestUFO!
> Good idea, that is something I will look into doing in the future.
> 
> [email protected] will always look best.
> [email protected] *BFI* will have the same amount of motion blur as [email protected], at least on 2ms TN's
> [email protected] without *BFI* will have twice as much motion blur in non-LightBoost mode, or a double-image effect with LightBoost/CRT.
> 
> *BFI* is useful if you need 60fps with the full LightBoost effect. (e.g. MAME).


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> I have an X-Star at 120Hz, and what I was mostly interested in was *BFI* gaming. For those of us who can't push top framerates I would really like 60Hz (by vsync) with *BFI* to reduce motion blur. That's probably require game devs and/or nvidia and amd to do something though.


what's this BFI gaming ? BFI only appears on this page....


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *socketus*
> 
> what's this BFI gaming ? BFI only appears on this page....


BFI is *B*lack *F*rame *I*nsertion.
It's a way of reducing motion blur in framerates that's lower than the monitor's Hz.
e.g. Reducing the blur or double-image effect during [email protected]

Example animation:
*www.testufo.com/#test=blackframes*
(View this in Chrome browser)

LightBoost is also essentially equivalent to hardware-based black frame insertion, at roughly 3:1 ratio (LB=100%) to a 5:1 ratio (LB=10%). You can see this hardware-based strobing 



, which looks like it's inserting a black frame between refreshes (by turning off the backlight). Here, what we're essentially talking about is software-based BFI (strobing) to achieve 60Hz LightBoost, by using a black frame to blank-out every other strobe.

Basically, [email protected] with the motion clarity of [email protected]
(Very obvious in the link above, if viewing the webpage in Chrome while LightBoost is enabled).


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *socketus*
> 
> what's this BFI gaming ? BFI only appears on this page....


Something I came up with on the spot. It doesn't exist afaik, but here's the basic idea:

Software BFI is only useful if you have a situation where you cannot reach the full refresh rate of the monitor - so video and gaming. For those of us who can't hack Lightboost, and our GPUs can't push 120fps, I'd like for games to limit to 60fps and insert black frames between each, thus giving much lower motion blur, with little to no extra work for the GPU.


----------



## mdrejhon

This could be theoretically done at the driver level.

Basically the nVidia drivers could be tricked into thinking the display is only 60Hz while the display is actually 120Hz. And the drivers inserts black frames in between the "60Hz refreshes". Then all games would work, no matter which game, as the game would think it's outputting to a 60Hz monitor.

The drivers would be doing the BFI for motion blur reduciton, in a manner similiar to *www.testufo.com/#test=blackframes* by using this same type of technique for 60fps @ 120Hz.


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> This could be theoretically done at the driver level.
> 
> Basically the nVidia drivers could be tricked into thinking the display is only 60Hz while the display is actually 120Hz. And the drivers inserts black frames in between the "60Hz refreshes". Then all games would work, no matter which game, as the game would think it's outputting to a 60Hz monitor.
> 
> The drivers would be doing the BFI for motion blur reduciton, in a manner similiar to *www.testufo.com/#test=blackframes* by using this same type of technique for 60fps @ 120Hz.


Wow, if you could find a way to pull off such a trick I'd be extremely impressed. Or we could just ask Nvidia and AMD nicely









Would it work with stuff like the Qnix and X-Star though?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> Would it work with stuff like the Qnix and X-Star though?


To a certain extent, yes. About 50% motion blur reduction, making [email protected] look like [email protected]
However, it will very most dramatically benefit 60fps on LightBoost, because you get the full LightBoost effect at 60fps this way.

There are numerous issues with AMD and nVidia wanting to support software-based black frame insertion at the driver level:
-- BFI can dim the image;
-- BFI can add flicker (not bad at [email protected] or [email protected])
-- You're repeatedly turning on/off LCD pixels at the panel level. If pixel transitions are slow, that can cause BFI to reduce contrast severely.
-- You're running an interference with the LCD inversion voltages (alternating positive/negative values). This can cause LCD image retention.

The most likely thing to happen is a system tray utility that adds flicker, but it would require precision hooks into the drivers, or extremely high priority (e.g. Administrator-level Real-Time CPU priority). But games will still be playing as if it was outputting to a 120Hz monitor which will create some problems. For example, some frames will be rendered out-of-phase with the black frame insertion, and thus be uselessly hidden out-of-sync with the flicker. So there will be strange motion artifacts (moments of increased judder) whenever the frames are out-of-phase with the flicker. But it will do a great job of eliminating motion blur in VSYNC-enabled 60fps games and emulators that ran at a smooth 60fps. Those will be the ones that benefit the most from an external third-party BFI utility. (Maybe we can ask ToastyX or others nicely).


----------



## rfisher983

CallsignVega - So the TE isn't good for lightboost?


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rfisher983*
> 
> CallsignVega - So the TE isn't good for lightboost?


Not when you can get a VG248QE for $250. I'd only get the TE if I plan on using the 144 Hz regular mode for it's zero-PWM. It's the only monitor that can do that.


----------



## rfisher983

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Not when you can get a VG248QE for $250. I'd only get the TE if I plan on using the 144 Hz regular mode for it's zero-PWM. It's the only monitor that can do that.


I'm currently on a XL2410T and don't mind paying extra for for the XL2420TE.
_
"As for the XL2420TE, I would not recommend the monitor if you are going to be using Lightboost mode. The Zero-PWM feature does not help here and it's $150 more than the VG248QE. The Xl2420TE did look fine in normal 144 Hz mode and didn't have the huge blacks/contrast issues. It will be up to you if the zero-PWM flicker feature is worth the extra $150 and you want to run normal non-Lightboost 144 Hz."_

Does the light boost on the XL2420TE perform the same as the other models or significantly worse?

What does the zero -PWM flicker actually do?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rfisher983*
> 
> I'm currently on a XL2410T and don't mind paying extra for for the XL2420TE.
> _
> "As for the XL2420TE, I would not recommend the monitor if you are going to be using Lightboost mode. The Zero-PWM feature does not help here and it's $150 more than the VG248QE. The Xl2420TE did look fine in normal 144 Hz mode and didn't have the huge blacks/contrast issues. It will be up to you if the zero-PWM flicker feature is worth the extra $150 and you want to run normal non-Lightboost 144 Hz."_
> 
> Does the light boost on the XL2420TE perform the same as the other models or significantly worse?
> 
> What does the zero -PWM flicker actually do?


What I interpret Vega as saying is that the XL2420TE, the VG248QE and the XL2411T, are all the same in terms of LightBoost quality.
Just that the 27" monitors (XL2720T, VG278H/HE) are known to have much better LightBoost color quality.

The zero-PWM feature is for non-LightBoost mode -- it uses DC-based backlight dimming, rather than PWM-based backlight diming.


----------



## senna89

Excuse me i have some questions about xl2420te :

1 - Have this model a good calibration to standard preset ?
2 - Can you see evident banding effects ?
3 - With flickering is deleted also in lightboost mode ?
4 - THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION : What is the minimum brightness ? ( the XL2420T and XL2411T had an high minimum brightness and its not so good for users like me that have a sensible eyes ).


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> Excuse me i have some questions about xl2420te :
> 
> 3 - With flickering is deleted also in lightboost mode ?
> 4 - THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION : What is the minimum brightness ? ( the XL2420T and XL2411T had an high minimum brightness and its not so good for users like me that have a sensible eyes ).


3- he already answered this one, please search before you ask. It's literally a few posts above lol.
4- probably similar, it's the same panel as the XL2411T AFAIK
Your eyes are probably sensitive to PWM backlighting, not the brightness. I use the XL2420T on Brightness set to 6 and it's perfect. I also have sensitive eyes.


----------



## senna89

no im sensible to brigtness, not so much to the flickering, but flicker free tecnology can also be help.

LIGHTBOOST MODE is available in 60Hz mode ?


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> no im sensible to brigtness, not so much to the flickering, but flicker free tecnology can also be help.
> 
> LIGHTBOOST MODE is available in 60Hz mode ?


No, the large benefit of the the XL2420TE is it's zero-PWM feature which doesn't work with Lightboost by nature. Are you saying 10% Lightboost is too bright for you, or regular 10%?

I still have a Xl2420TE here, I guess I could play around with it.


----------



## Bcider

On my Asus VG248QE I've noticed in the upper right hand corner there are barely noticeable lines when lightboost is on. I really have to stare at it with a still picture to notice it but I don't have this problem in non lightboost mode. Any idea what this is and if I can fix it?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bcider*
> 
> On my Asus VG248QE I've noticed in the upper right hand corner there are barely noticeable lines when lightboost is on. I really have to stare at it with a still picture to notice it but I don't have this problem in non lightboost mode. Any idea what this is and if I can fix it?


horizontal lines down the monitor? I've noticed this too.


----------



## Bcider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> horizontal lines down the monitor? I've noticed this too.


Horizontal but only in the top right. Like I said they are not noticeable during gameplay unless you are really trying hard to see them.


----------



## Falkentyne

It's not JUST during lightboost.
You should also see them at 144 hz non lightboost.
It's faint scaneline type effect.

Only faintly noticable on a desktop with a greyish/light type background, unless you are seriously trying to look for it.
It's NOT there at 60 hz *at all* even if you try to look for it.


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> It's not JUST during lightboost.
> You should also see them at 144 hz non lightboost.
> It's faint scaneline type effect.
> 
> Only faintly noticable on a desktop with a greyish/light type background, unless you are seriously trying to look for it.
> It's NOT there at 60 hz *at all* even if you try to look for it.


They are barely visible without lightboost on. With lightboost on, you can see them in a blue background.


----------



## Bcider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> It's not JUST during lightboost.
> You should also see them at 144 hz non lightboost.
> It's faint scaneline type effect.
> 
> Only faintly noticable on a desktop with a greyish/light type background, unless you are seriously trying to look for it.
> It's NOT there at 60 hz *at all* even if you try to look for it.


I mean maybe i can see them non lightboost but honestly I really can't tell lol. Anyway is there anyway to fix that?


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> No, the large benefit of the the XL2420TE is it's zero-PWM feature which doesn't work with Lightboost by nature. Are you saying 10% Lightboost is too bright for you, or regular 10%?
> 
> I still have a Xl2420TE here, I guess I could play around with it.


regular 10%


----------



## hammadj

Hey guys, I currently have a single VG248QE and I wanted to attempt a portrait surround Lightboost setup. I was wondering if it was possible to have one VG248QE and two XL2420T's in portrait surround?


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bcider*
> 
> I mean maybe i can see them non lightboost but honestly I really can't tell lol. Anyway is there anyway to fix that?


Yes, at very high refresh rates scan-lines area a side-effect. A lot of 120+ Hz monitors have them if you look close enough. The overclockable Korean 1440P monitors have it really bad. So much so that ToastyX designed a contrast lowering utility that tried to cancel out the scan-line effect.


----------



## Bcider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Yes, at very high refresh rates scan-lines area a side-effect. A lot of 120+ Hz monitors have them if you look close enough. The overclockable Korean 1440P monitors have it really bad. So much so that ToastyX designed a contrast lowering utility that tried to cancel out the scan-line effect.


It's weird that its only in the top upper right of the screen though.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bcider*
> 
> It's weird that its only in the top upper right of the screen though.


It may be because that's the corner nearest or furthest away from the row/column drivers (one vertical edge and one horizontal edge). 120Hz pushes a lot of LCD technologies to near their limits, and it seems LightBoost apparently amplifies this significantly.

According to *reverse engineering done by Marc*, LightBoost uses an LCD scanout that's very fast -- similiar to the speed of a single 200Hz+ refresh -- to lengthen the time period between refreshes, to make it easier to wait for the refresh to settle.

Presently, it is a panel lottery whether or not you get the faint scanlines effect.


----------



## ThatKidIsCrazy

I hate to interrupt here, but does anyone know where to find an XL2411T anymore?


----------



## PCM2

In which country?


----------



## Carniflex

While its not strictly light boost related - is there any good test which with I can tell the difference between a true 120 Hz stuff and 120 Hz at 60 Hz input and using interpolation ? Have a DSLR which is supposed to be able to do as low as 1/6000 exposure (although it would be probably very dark at such short exposure or I would need to ramp up ISO as far as it can drag it).


Am I doing the comparison correct ? Atm its still 60 Hz ofc and its with 1/250 exposure time - the little ghosting in front of the moving object is overdrive? Or I cant do it with a DSLR and need ultra high speed camera ? (top one DELL U2311H, bottom one IPAD retina replacement LCD hacked to work off a display port on a GFX card)

For background information its about hacking the ipad 4 screen. By its spec sheet it uses 60 Hz input but runs the screen at 120 Hz using interpolation. I'm trying to get it to run at higher refresh rate through EDID hacking and just slapping it with higher refresh rate signal (still working on it, EDID does not want to stick atm) but to know if I'm making any progress I need to be able to tell the difference by measuring it somehow - as while I might get my computer telling me that it sends out, lets say, 100 Hz signal I want to know if the display makes use of that refresh rate for input actually or just takes some frames and ignores the "overhead".

The spec sheet of the screen is intriguing btw, it seems to be claiming to support some kind of lightboost like stuff, as supported modes are 60 Hz input using interpolation for 120 and 240 Hz LCD refresh rate and something which is called "120 Hz + 120 Hz backlight" - problem with the second entry is I have no way of getting to the vsync signal as it bypasses the backlight control circuitry I'm using altogether. And ofc as the screen uses Displayport 1.1a then if my math is correct it does not have enough bandwidth for 2048x1536 @ 120 Hz as it will be approx 5% short. Max you can do at that reso is ~ 114.5 Hz with 8.64 Gbits / s I think.


----------



## vin97

I have the XL2411T and with 10% LB plus 40% contrast (at 120 Hz) and the newest NVIDIA driver (320.49) I have relatively acceptable colors and no scan lines. You only see a little bit of purple in some very rare grey tones.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vin97*
> 
> I have the XL2411T and with 10% LB plus 40% contrast (at 120 Hz) and the newest NVIDIA driver (320.49) I have relatively acceptable colors and no scan lines. You only see a little bit of purple in some very rare grey tones.


What are your nVidia Control Panel settings?
As a starting point, favourite nVidia Control Panel settings has been:

nVidia Control Panel Desktop Brightness = 52
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Contrast = 45
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Gamma = 0.70

--or--

nVidia Control Panel Desktop Brightness = 50
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Contrast = 47
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Gamma = 0.85

These settings allows all shades to be seen in both Lagom Contrast and Lagom Black Level (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/)
For my monitor, I like to set my monitor's Contrast setting to somewhere slightly below the white clipping point. On the VG278H, I use a Contrast=90%. On the VG248QE and XL2411T, it often needs to be closer to about 40%-50%, just like yours. This does not fix the tinting color issues that can come up with LightBoost (e.g. purple color), but it does undo most of the artificial gamma wash-out effect. On some monitors like VG278H, there is no LightBoost color tinting like the VG248QE.


----------



## Stige

"92% less motion blur (12x clearer) - 120 Hz LightBoost, set to 10% (1.4ms frame strobe flashes)"

So wait, at 10% it works better than 100%?

So I should set it on one "bar" on my XL2420T instead of the full 10 bars?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stige*
> 
> "92% less motion blur (12x clearer) - 120 Hz LightBoost, set to 10% (1.4ms frame strobe flashes)"
> 
> So wait, at 10% it works better than 100%?
> 
> So I should set it on one "bar" on my XL2420T instead of the full 10 bars?


Correct. Here's the motion blur graph, from the *60Hz vs 120Hz vs LightBoost* page:

http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/60vs120vslb

However, it's a brightness-versus-motion clarity tradeoff. Use *ToastyX Strobelight* so you can turn on/off lightboost (Ctrl+Alt+Plus / Ctrl+Alt+Minus) and change strobe brightness via hotkeys.

A good test is to use TestUFO moving photo test at *www.testufo.com/#test=photo*, view this page in a *supported web browser*. Turn ON/OFF LightBoost via the ToastyX Strobelight hotkey while viewing this. Change speed to 1440 pixels/second and change strobe brightness between 10% and 100%. You will notice that the windows become sharper in the Quebec photo (especially in the castle at the top) This motion test shows that LightBoost=10% produces clearer motion but is much dimmer.

But it's only an incremental improvement. Don't sacrifice too much brightness; a good compromise setting is LightBoost=50%


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> However, it's a brightness-versus-motion clarity tradeoff.


LCD monitors can go way over 300cd/m2 when you should be running about 120cd/m2 - isn't that more than enough headroom for Lightboost?


----------



## ThatKidIsCrazy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> In which country?


America


----------



## PCM2

The XL2411T was never available in the US unless imported, was it?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> LCD monitors can go way over 300cd/m2 when you should be running about 120cd/m2 - isn't that more than enough headroom for Lightboost?


LightBoost 10% is equivalent to a 5:1 ratio of black frame insertion (dark 85% of the time, strobing 15% of the time). That means it's flashing only 1.4ms out of each 8.3ms (1/120sec refresh). So you're losing 85% of brightness during LightBoost=10%, so it is often barely only 50cd/m2 on many LightBoost monitors.

Some monitors with LightBoost uses boost pulses -- it does so on the XL2411T and VG248QE. The boost pulses can be modified to be brighter, so the backlight it emits at least >500cd/m2 during the strobe in order to achieve average brightness of ~90cd/m2 during LightBoost=10%
Successful electronics modification of a LightBoost monitor for brighter LightBoost=10%

Interesting factoid: Many high-brightness CRT's flicker at 5,000cd/m2 at the electron gun beam spot, to achieve average brightnesses far less than 100cd/m2.

Someday I'd like to see strobe backlights of 0.5ms or 1.0ms, and that will require even brigther backlights in order to achieve a sufficiently bright image, since we'd now be starting to approach almost 20:1 black frame insertion ratios (95%:5% black frame versus visible frame).

Mathematically, strobe length is directly proportional to amount of motion blur.
50%:50% strobes = 50% less motion blur relative to regular 120Hz (and 50% darker)
75%:25% strobes = 75% less motion blur relative to regular 120Hz (and 75% darker)
85%:15% strobes = 85% less motion blur relative to regular 120Hz (and 85% darker)
95%:5% strobes = 95% less motion blur relative to regular 120Hz (and 95% darker)


----------



## ThatKidIsCrazy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> The XL2411T was never available in the US unless imported, was it?


Ah, okay I went to Amazon.co.uk and yes your suspicions were correct... could not find it in the US but I did find it there.


----------



## CallsignVega

For those that were curious about the XL2420TE in non-Lightboost mode, I can confirm it's lowest brightness setting with zero-PWM is in fact lower than the two other monitors I have here. I have decided to keep one of the XL2420TE's for it's zero-PWM feature and use as a side monitor to my 3x1 Portrait XL2720T surround setup. If you want a non-Lightboost 120-144 Hz monitor that has a wide brightness adjustment and zero-PWM flicker, the Xl2420TE is the one to get (well, the only). I personally love Lightboost strobing and zero-PWM on m y eyes versus regular PWM strobing.

I would normally have stuck with my Dell U2413 but I found a nasty bug in which if you have a surround setup at 120 Hz, and a 60 Hz monitor on the side it doesn't work properly and the "feel" of the 120 Hz setup drops down to the 60 Hz. So, if you have a 120 Hz surround setup and want to run that 4th screen, you must match it with a 120 Hz screen.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> For those that were curious about the XL2420TE in non-Lightboost mode, I can confirm it's lowest brightness setting with zero-PWM is in fact lower than the two other monitors I have here.


That's good news -- could be the redeeming quality of XL2420TE, because I've had a few complaints that many 120Hz monitors are way too bright, even at Brightness=0%.
And even if you don't get eye strain from PWM, the ability to lower brightness, *without seeing ugly PWM motion artifacts*, is a good benefit for people who prefer the non-LightBoost image.
i.e. It's like a more expensive VG248QE, to contain these specific nice perks.


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> LCD monitors can go way over 300cd/m2 when you should be running about 120cd/m2 - isn't that more than enough headroom for Lightboost?


120cd/m2 is only really suggested for a relatively dim room. In a moderately to well lit room (especially with natural light coming in) 160cd/m2+ is often preferred. But they're just recommendations when doing colour manipulation. For gaming it's obviously good to stick with a brightness that reflects the room conditions as well, but there is more room for personal preference.


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> 120cd/m2 is only really suggested for a relatively dim room. In a moderately to well lit room (especially with natural light coming in) 160cd/m2+ is often preferred. But they're just recommendations when doing colour manipulation. For gaming it's obviously good to stick with a brightness that reflects the room conditions as well, but there is more room for personal preference.


Interesting. I can see the logic behind that, but I do like a slightly less bright monitor as it's easier on the eyes. Though for colour manipulation you're right that keeping it the same as the ambient light level would be important.

+rep for the info.


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I can confirm it's lowest brightness setting with zero-PWM i


Ok but what is its value of cd/cm2 ?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> 120cd/m2 is only really suggested for a relatively dim room.


Correct.

That said, a personal preference fudge factor is also thrown in. I have also run into people who found 100cd/m2 too blindingly bright for their eyes. I still strongly recommend monitor manufacturers include a wide dimming range, all the way down to a mere 5cd/m2 or 10cd/m2.

These levels are better at night when you want to keep your eyes mostly adjusted to the dark (e.g. bedroom glance at an iPhone). This is why an iPhone is able to adjust to less than 10cd/m2 -- people like this level sometimes during theater use, bedroom use, etc.

I am very glad to see that wider dimming range has been implemented on the XL2420TE -- now I know what 120Hz monitor to recommend to people who've emailed me saying Brightness=0% is still too bright.


----------



## PCM2

Definitely. Seeing some monitors not even dip below 100cd/m2 is pretty inexcusable. It won't bother some users, of course, but it's an important flexibility to have. I too know people who prefer to use very low brightnesses (under 60cd/m2) particularly when reading on their computer at night.


----------



## mdrejhon

BTW, measurements have shown that the iPhone 5 can dim from under 10 cd/m2 all the way to an eye-scorching 500+ cd/m2. Many computers monitors don't seem to do such a wide dimming range, which is a shame.


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> BTW, measurements have shown that the iPhone 5 can dim from under 10 cd/m2 all the way to an eye-scorching 500+ cd/m2. Many computers monitors don't seem to do such a wide dimming range, which is a shame.


If Apple are good for anything, it's making more advanced tech mainstream and so forcing competitors to use it.


----------



## Derp

I just tried the ToastyX Strobelight program and it works perfectly. It's so much easier compared to dealing with the Nvidia drivers. The quick toggle combined with the ufo test is an excellent way to see just how much blur you're eliminating.

I hope the bugs get worked out with the 278H and AMD cards soon.

EDIT: It seems the resolution toggling needs some work. 120Hz toggles lightboost on and off perfectly. 110Hz with lightboost works fine but when I toggle it off it reverts to 120Hz with lightboost off instead of the intended 110Hz with lightboost off.


----------



## ThatKidIsCrazy

Question: Do you folks think that the BFI technology could be implemented into Triple A titles? I am aware that it is only currently usable with MAME, but what if it could work with Battlefield 4? You know because it takes an insane amount of graphics power to keep BF4 at 100 frames per second or above. Anyways, been thinking about it and thought it was only suitable if it was asked here.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThatKidIsCrazy*
> 
> Question: Do you folks think that the BFI technology could be implemented into Triple A titles? I am aware that it is only currently usable with MAME


Good news, it is also built into WinUAE 2.6.0 now.
There's a new thread I recently posted on *WinUAE Forum*.
Quote:


> but what if it could work with Battlefield 4? You know because it takes an insane amount of graphics power to keep BF4 at 100 frames per second or above. Anyways, been thinking about it and thought it was only suitable if it was asked here.


Theoretically.

*Ideally, it should be done in graphics driver* instead of the video game. For example, a special driver modification that makes the computer think it's running in 60Hz, but actually outputs 120Hz+BFI to the monitor. Since the computer "thinks" it's running at 60Hz, it would run with all games and all software.

It could also *theoretically be done as a system tray utility* for games that can run in windowed mode. You simply black-out the screen every other refresh (e.g. displaying a layered window that goes completely black/transparent every other refresh). If you add a 60fps framerate limiter to the games, then you will get essentially the same effect, but with potentially a few minor side effects (such as varying input lag, depending on whether the first repeat refresh is blacked out or the second repeat refresh is blacked out) since the strobing would not be fully synchronized with the game's framerate.


----------



## ThatKidIsCrazy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Theoretically.
> 
> *Ideally, it should be done in graphics driver* instead of the video game. For example, a special driver modification that makes the computer think it's running in 60Hz, but actually outputs 120Hz+BFI to the monitor. Since the computer "thinks" it's running at 60Hz, it would run with all games and all software.
> 
> It could also *theoretically be done as a system tray utility* for games that can run in windowed mode. You simply black-out the screen every other refresh (e.g. displaying a layered window that goes completely black/transparent every other refresh). If you add a 60fps framerate limiter to the games, then you will get essentially the same effect, but with potentially a few minor side effects (such as varying input lag, depending on whether the first repeat refresh is blacked out or the second repeat refresh is blacked out) since the strobing would not be fully synchronized with the game's framerate.


So, if the tech was put into drivers, do you think it would make it to AMD drivers? BFI is developing from Lightboost ( as in that is the only way it works), so I believe it would only make sense if it came from nVidia only. That would be a serious let down, but it is the only plausible answer.

Also, the second idea sounds great, but as you stated it would have side effects. Input lag could be a serious game changer for somewhat avid FPS players, such as myself. Varying input lag would be awful, so if the layered window refreshed every frame, maybe that would take the effect away?


----------



## mdrejhon

BFI can benefit non-LightBoost 120Hz monitors, and overclocked 120Hz monitors.
However, it will only provide 50% motion blur reduction.
To understand the motion blur mathematics of BFI better:

---

*60fps+BFI on non-LightBoost 120Hz*
_BFI Sequence_: 8.3ms refresh + 8.3ms black frame
_Length of Visible Frame:_ 8.3ms
_Blur Elimination:_ 8.3ms:16.7ms = 50% motion blur elimination

As you can see, a 120Hz refresh is 8.3ms, while a 60Hz refresh is 16.7ms

---

*60fps+BFI on LightBoost 120Hz*
_BFI Sequence_: 1.4ms visible refresh + 6.9ms backlight off + 1.4ms black frame + 6.9ms backlight off
_Length of Visible Frame:_ 1.4ms
_Blur Elimination:_ 1.4ms:16.7ms = 92% motion blur elimination

A 120Hz LightBoost refresh at LB=10% is a 1.4ms strobe (visible refresh) followed by 6.9ms of darkness (backlight off). LightBoost can only strobe at 120Hz, and can't be made to strobe at only 60Hz. So the BFI trick is the equivalent of blocking every other strobe, to simulate 60Hz LightBoost via software means.

---

For those who do not understand fully, sample-and-hold motion blur is directly proportional to the length of visible refresh. Motion blur is reduced by shortening the refreshes. There are only two ways to do this efficiently. Either by increasing Hz -- or by adding black periods between refreshes. LightBoost does that. BFI also does that. We're just simply combining BFI+LightBoost to achieve "60Hz LightBoost" by blacking-out every other strobe with a black frame.

For those who are not familiar with sample-and-hold motion blur (the motion blur caused by eye-tracking), then see *www.testufo.com/#test=eyetracking* within a supported web browser (e.g. Google Chrome). This motion demonstration looks very different on CRT than it does on regular LCD's.

---

Now, driver makers will not be doing this as BFI has numerous disadvantages. It can cause extra flicker, it can worsen colors, it can amplify LCD inversion artifacts, and it can cause LCD image retention on certain panels (flicker can interfere with LCD inversion's job of preventing burn-in). Not all monitors are prone to this. The best hope for software-based BFI is either a driver hack, or via a 3rd party utility.


----------



## whybother

I'd like to see a middle ground added to the testufo app. I call it LBFI - Low Brightness Frame Insertion. Motion blur reduction would be less, but a 25% brightness or less image between frames should still have some effect. Screen damage and flicker would be significantly reduced.


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Another testimonial guys. This REALLY works.. This has changed my life.. The last CRT I owned was a 19 inch view-sonic. One day I decided I was gonna get with the "Jones" and get me an LCD cuz my mate had a BenQ LCD and it was flat and stuff and cool and stuff.. I got a 19" view-sonic LCD.... My gut dropped when I realized what technology I had stepped into.. The motion blur was horrendous. At the time I was playing Unreal Tournament and I went backwards in game play. I really couldn't see anything. I was so upset.. As technology progressed over the years speeds of the LCDs have gotten quicker.. The fastest LCD I have owned is my just now superseded Acer GD245HQ 2ms 3d (non-lightboosted) 23.6 inch triple way monitor.. (3 side by side) monitor(s). Up until just yesterday I thought I was at the cutting edge... Surely to get a 1ms monitor cant be worth the money, nor the hassle.. "I'm at the tier" or so I thought. Until reading up on this new light-boost hack , tweak, ABSOLUTE AWESOMENESS that has been discovered. I went out a bought a single ASUS VG278HE monitor to see it for my own eyes. Holy F(^&ing S&%t.. Is all I can say.. I am once again back to the days of my Unreal Tournament on a 19"monitor but now the luxury of a 27".. Without a doubt this is the 7th wonder of the world. This find has brought LCDs back into the realm of gaming as we once new it.. Have no fear people. This works on the monitors that have been outlined... You will never look back.. I can now sell my 3 ACER monitors to re-coupe the cost of the ASUS and live happy. So far Ive tested Dirt 3, Battlefield 3, BioShock, Crysis 3 and the gameplay has changed people. It sis so smooth and crisp. You can see everything on the screen, as it moves, and clearly. No blurriness.. Once the blurriness kicks in your brain just switches it off., Have you noticed the latest ad campaign tactics of blurring out the surroundings of the picture that the ad makers don't want you to concentrate on? Thats what happens in game play.. Now with this light boost set in place you can see everything even if its moving.. Do it.. Do it now... It is awesome.. Now to test M.A.M.E.


----------



## VettePilot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> For those that were curious about the XL2420TE in non-Lightboost mode, I can confirm it's lowest brightness setting with zero-PWM is in fact lower than the two other monitors I have here. I have decided to keep one of the XL2420TE's for it's zero-PWM feature and use as a side monitor to my 3x1 Portrait XL2720T surround setup. If you want a non-Lightboost 120-144 Hz monitor that has a wide brightness adjustment and zero-PWM flicker, the Xl2420TE is the one to get (well, the only). I personally love Lightboost strobing and zero-PWM on m y eyes versus regular PWM strobing.
> 
> I would normally have stuck with my Dell U2413 but I found a nasty bug in which if you have a surround setup at 120 Hz, and a 60 Hz monitor on the side it doesn't work properly and the "feel" of the 120 Hz setup drops down to the 60 Hz. So, if you have a 120 Hz surround setup and want to run that 4th screen, you must match it with a 120 Hz screen.


VEGA since you owned the Samy 750D's as I have do you think going to the 2720 or asus would be worth it?


----------



## CallsignVega

Granted, the Sammies are about the best looking TN panels out there, but I'd have to go with the XL2720T and Lightboost. De-matted of course.


----------



## VettePilot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Granted, the Sammies are about the best looking TN panels out there, but I'd have to go with the XL2720T and Lightboost. De-matted of course.


Honest answer. I have to get one through Amazon I guess and pay CA tax because B&H photo has the 2720 for $422 but they want $152!!! for shipping. I would love to have one with the matte removed but not sure if I have the brass bells to do it.


----------



## Crazy Chuckster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Granted, the Sammies are about the best looking TN panels out there, but I'd have to go with the XL2720T and Lightboost. De-matted of course.


So where are the before and after comparison shots of the 2720T without the matt?


----------



## motherpuncher

I've been searching and can't find an answer. I have lightboost working and set at 120hz, however my frme rate still goes up to 144hz. I have adaptive vsync on and turn off vsync in games. How can i get it to cap at 120fps? it seems even if I turn on vsync it still goes to 144fps.
Edit: I just ran crysis 2 and it caps at 100fps. I have adaptive vsync on and monitor set to 120hz with lightboost.


----------



## jeri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> Another testimonial guys. This REALLY works.. This has changed my life.. The last CRT I owned was a 19 inch view-sonic. One day I decided I was gonna get with the "Jones" and get me an LCD cuz my mate had a BenQ LCD and it was flat and stuff and cool and stuff.. I got a 19" view-sonic LCD.... My gut dropped when I realized what technology I had stepped into.. The motion blur was horrendous. At the time I was playing Unreal Tournament and I went backwards in game play. I really couldn't see anything. I was so upset.. As technology progressed over the years speeds of the LCDs have gotten quicker.. The fastest LCD I have owned is my just now superseded Acer GD245HQ 2ms 3d (non-lightboosted) 23.6 inch triple way monitor.. (3 side by side) monitor(s). Up until just yesterday I thought I was at the cutting edge... Surely to get a 1ms monitor cant be worth the money, nor the hassle.. "I'm at the tier" or so I thought. Until reading up on this new light-boost hack , tweak, ABSOLUTE AWESOMENESS that has been discovered. I went out a bought a single ASUS VG278HE monitor to see it for my own eyes. Holy F(^&ing S&%t.. Is all I can say.. I am once again back to the days of my Unreal Tournament on a 19"monitor but now the luxury of a 27".. Without a doubt this is the 7th wonder of the world. This find has brought LCDs back into the realm of gaming as we once new it.. Have no fear people. This works on the monitors that have been outlined... You will never look back.. I can now sell my 3 ACER monitors to re-coupe the cost of the ASUS and live happy. So far Ive tested Dirt 3, Battlefield 3, BioShock, Crysis 3 and the gameplay has changed people. It sis so smooth and crisp. You can see everything on the screen, as it moves, and clearly. No blurriness.. Once the blurriness kicks in your brain just switches it off., Have you noticed the latest ad campaign tactics of blurring out the surroundings of the picture that the ad makers don't want you to concentrate on? Thats what happens in game play.. Now with this light boost set in place you can see everything even if its moving.. Do it.. Do it now... It is awesome.. Now to test M.A.M.E.


amen bro, i came from a 21 iyahma crt and q3arena prolevel to a 19° benq (with best response time back in the day) and after 2 months a quit q3 and other shoter games on inet completly ._.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> Another testimonial guys. This REALLY works..


Good testimonial, thanks! I've quoted this into Blur Busters LightBoost Testimonials.


----------



## surfbumb

does the toastyx program work with amd cards? I was thinking of getting a vg248qe and running lightboost to relive the crt days.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *motherpuncher*
> 
> I've been searching and can't find an answer. I have lightboost working and set at 120hz, however my frme rate still goes up to 144hz. I have adaptive vsync on and turn off vsync in games. How can i get it to cap at 120fps? it seems even if I turn on vsync it still goes to 144fps.
> Edit: I just ran crysis 2 and it caps at 100fps. I have adaptive vsync on and monitor set to 120hz with lightboost.


Check if your game has VSYNC OFF and an incorrectly-configured fps_max setting. It may also be defective LightBoost, make sure LightBoost is enabled -- check your monitor menus and see if the "nVidia LightBoost" adjustment is enabled. A good motion test is www.testufo.com/#test=photo (view this link in Chrome).


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *surfbumb*
> 
> does the toastyx program work with amd cards? I was thinking of getting a vg248qe and running lightboost to relive the crt days.


Yes, it does. Blur Busters does not test with AMD products with LightBoost, but ToastyX users say it works on AMD.

Keep in mind if you want the best LightBoost color, the better LightBoost color is typically on the 27" models. That said, the 24" models are cheaper. Don't forget to follow the color tweaking instructions to fix some of the LightBoost color problems.


----------



## Hefner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *d-block*
> 
> I really want to see this in person. This is amazing news.


I've recently witnessed the 2d lightboost in person at a friend's house. Personally I do not own an nvidia GPU so I cannnot use lightboost. But trust me, it works. It's so much better. I played some battlefield with his computer and it felt like my aim was 30% better. It's really amazing.

I've always been more an AMD guy because of the lower prices but for my next build I will definitely get an nvidia GPU solely because of this.


----------



## VettePilot

I am going to need to try the benq 27" out since the lightboost hack on my Samsung monitor makes the screen way too dark and the contrast is really off no matter what I change.


----------



## tsunamipop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hefner*
> 
> I've recently witnessed the 2d lightboost in person at a friend's house. Personally I do not own an nvidia GPU so I cannnot use lightboost. But trust me, it works. It's so much better. I played some battlefield with his computer and it felt like my aim was 30% better. It's really amazing.
> 
> I've always been more an AMD guy because of the lower prices but for my next build I will definitely get an nvidia GPU solely because of this.


It has been stated with the newest Toasty x utility amd is able to utilize lightboost. But yes please say thanks to Nvidia on your next build and Sli something nasty!!!


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whybother*
> 
> I'd like to see a middle ground added to the testufo app. I call it LBFI - Low Brightness Frame Insertion. Motion blur reduction would be less, but a 25% brightness or less image between frames should still have some effect. Screen damage and flicker would be significantly reduced.


I've added an undocumented easter egg for you, if you don't mind editing the URL. You can do LBFI unofficially by adding a "&partial=25" to the end of the URL for *TestUFO Black Frames Demo* to insert a frame of 25% brightness. Change the number in the URL from between 0 to 100, for different percentages.

Demo of 25% LBFI
www.testufo.com/#test=blackframes&partial=25
The 25% LBFI doesn't seem to be too objectionable, it looks like a slight double-image, but I don't know how much it improves agreeability with LCD's with standard alternating inversion patterns...


----------



## formula m

Are there any 30" displays w/lightboost ..?


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> Are there any 30" displays w/lightboost ..?


Unfortunately Lightboost is the realm of 1080P. Unfortunately it look's to stay that way for a very long time.


----------



## VettePilot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Unfortunately Lightboost is the realm of 1080P. Unfortunately it look's to stay that way for a very long time.


It is a bummer. A 1440p or 1600P 27" 120hz lightboost panel would be awesome but it would also cost an arm, leg and part of your spleen. That said I would still buy one since I do not need my spleen at the moment.

I have my 1440P screen for photo editing but I can not play FPS games on it. It would be great to have 3 of them for surround with flight sims or driving sims though.


----------



## krameriffic

So I picked this monitor up recently, upgrading from a Viewsonic VX2265wm. I can't help but notice the horizontal pixel lines being very distinguishable, not smoothly transitioning into each other. I can very clearly see some graininess to the horizontal lines drawn on the monitor. Things like the top of a maximized window don't look like a smooth color, but rather a series of lines of colored pixels with faint but very clearly noticeable discolored lines in between. It reminds me of the first time I noticed the grille lines on a high end CRT across the 1/3 and 2/3 horizontal lines of the screen, only instead of just being in two places at the monitor, they exist between EVERY horizontal pixel line.

Am I the only person who notices this? Is it a consequence of running it in Lightboost mode? Or just an attribute of this monitor? The 2265wm was a first gen 120Hz monitor and does not have great picture quality, color reproduction and is only 1680x1050, but it looks considerably better than this monitor for this reason. I just can't help but notice it.


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Can someone please tell me if having an ASUS VG278H as the center monitor and two VG278HE's for the sides running in 24/7 2D lightboost will work in nvidia surround 5840x1080?

Hi guys. I currently have one VG278HE and after just coming from a ACER GD245HQ surround setup, I need my surround back again.. After using 5840X1080 for more than 6 months the difference is night and day.. I feel like I'm looking down a tunnel..

I know that the HE is 144 Hz and the H is 120. But if I only ever run them all in 2D lightboost I was thinking that shouldn't be an issue.. I was wanting to do it this way because I could then have a pair of 3d vision glasses (that come bundled with the H) to use when I felt like it.. The main issue I have with this combo is that with Nvidia 3d surround all monitors must be of the same Resolution, Frequency and Timing.
Thanks

(Sorry for double asking this question. I've asked it here and started a new thread. Just wanted it to be seen by the right people)


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> Can someone please tell me if having an ASUS VG278H as the center monitor and two VG278HE's for the sides running in 24/7 2D lightboost will work in nvidia surround 5840x1080?


Should work.

With ToastyX Strobelight, and for 2D use, it doesn't matter what kind of LightBoost monitors. You can mix-match, if you're not using 3D glasses. The problem is image differences. The quality can vary between LightBoost monitors. The VG278H and VG278HE has extremely minor image quality differences that MIGHT stand out (e.g. differences in ghosting during the TestUFO Eiffel Tower Test -- www.testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=photo-eiffel.jpg ...)


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krameriffic*
> 
> Am I the only person who notices this? Is it a consequence of running it in Lightboost mode? Or just an attribute of this monitor? The 2265wm was a first gen 120Hz monitor and does not have great picture quality, color reproduction and is only 1680x1050, but it looks considerably better than this monitor for this reason. I just can't help but notice it.


I assume you mean the VG248QE?
It's a panel lottery problem on that monitor model, it seems a lot of the panels have this problem. Exchange it until the artifact disappears (but half have done so unsuccessfully; getting another panel) My BENQ XL2411T (same panel as VG248QE) has the same scanlines issue at the upper-right corner.

If you want a panel that is guaranteed not to have this artifact, you will want to switch to the older 24" panels (e.g. XL2420T) which I do not recommend, or any of the 27" models (e.g. VG278H) which has better LightBoost color. The VG278H has the best LightBoost color of all the LightBoost monitors, for example. But not everyone likes 27".

If you want cheapest LightBoost, VG248QE is it.
It actually does a good job of the CRT clarity, especially when you view www.testufo.com/#test=photo and even the very tough TestUFO Eiffel Tower test with darn near zero ghosting, and the fast moving tower looks exactly as sharp as stationary (zero motion blur) especially at lower LightBoost % settings.

Popular LightBoost gamma fix settings are:
- nVidia Control Panel Desktop Brightness 52%
- nVidia Control Panel Desktop Contrast 45%
- nVidia Control Panel Desktop Gamma 0.70
- Leave Digital Vibrance at factory default
But it won't fix 100% of color problems, and the VG248QE isn't the best when it comes to color quality.

If you want the most colorful LightBoost, then you have to pony up extra money for an ASUS VG278H, and then reconfigure the VG278H to monitor OSD contrast of about 90, while also doing the above color fixes. VG278H has slightly more ghosting in the TestUFO Eiffel Tower test (www.testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=photo-eiffel.jpg) but you get far better LightBoost colors.


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Thanks heaps for you answer mate. I really appreciate it. . The fact that you can mix and match any light-boosted monitor is a good thing for the community to know. Cheers..
The image quality difference is another issue.. With the ghosting issue and the fact that the two HE's would be in peripheral vision (I have nearly 190 degrees peripheral) but for anyone including myself usable and well focused peripheral is another story. The difference in the ghosting wouldn't be that much of a concern when used in a triple monitor setup then would you think? In saying that.. Which monitor do you think has the best image quality out of the two? Sounds like the difference is so small that it really comes down to what monitor you want as the primary center monitor for your primary focus.

If you think it would be much better to stick with 3 of the HE's I will seeing as I have one already. Ditch the idea of having 3d "goggles". I've tried it and it is pretty cool every once in a while, but I'm not wiling to sacrifice my 2D Light-boost perfect triple setup on having some "goggles" in the draw for an every so often play time.


----------



## mucinex1029

Mdrejhon,

If I have a colorimeter that I can use to calibrate my displays, which 24" screen would be best for me (in terms of less artifacts and better colors)?

And can I run LightBoost on 3 monitors?


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> I assume you mean the VG248QE?
> It's a panel lottery problem on that monitor model, it seems a lot of the panels have this problem. Exchange it until the artifact disappears (but half have done so unsuccessfully; getting another panel) My BENQ XL2411T (same panel as VG248QE) has the same scanlines issue at the upper-right corner.
> 
> If you want a panel that is guaranteed not to have this artifact, you will want to switch to the older 24" panels (e.g. XL2420T) which I do not recommend, or any of the 27" models (e.g. VG278H) which has better LightBoost color. The VG278H has the best LightBoost color of all the LightBoost monitors, for example. But not everyone likes 27".
> 
> If you want cheapest LightBoost, VG248QE is it.
> It actually does a good job of the CRT clarity, especially when you view www.testufo.com/#test=photo and even the very tough TestUFO Eiffel Tower test with darn near zero ghosting, and the fast moving tower looks exactly as sharp as stationary (zero motion blur) especially at lower LightBoost % settings.
> 
> Popular LightBoost gamma fix settings are:
> - nVidia Control Panel Desktop Brightness 52%
> - nVidia Control Panel Desktop Contrast 45%
> - nVidia Control Panel Desktop Gamma 0.70
> - Leave Digital Vibrance at factory default
> But it won't fix 100% of color problems, and the VG248QE isn't the best when it comes to color quality.
> 
> If you want the most colorful LightBoost, then you have to pony up extra money for an ASUS VG278H, and then reconfigure the VG278H to monitor OSD contrast of about 90, while also doing the above color fixes. VG278H has slightly more ghosting in the TestUFO Eiffel Tower test (www.testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=photo-eiffel.jpg) but you get far better LightBoost colors.


Is there a list of newest lightboost monitors (27") ... ?


----------



## OccamRazor

So if i have a VG278H and 2 VG278HE in portrait mode (with the VG278H in the middle), the colour differences would be minimal? in surround 2D is it ok but does it work in 3D? probably had to override the EDID in the VG278HE to match the VG278H right?
or should i get 3 VG248QE? i already have a VG278H...

Thanks in advance

Ed


----------



## Arc0s

I just got the VG278HE and the colors look considerably better than the VG248QE. One thing I noticed though is that Lightboost is not as bright as on the VG248QE can some one confirm this? Also there is a bit more ghosting but the color improvement is definitely worth it, also enemies look bigger in FPS games


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> I assume you mean the VG248QE?
> It's a panel lottery problem on that monitor model, it seems a lot of the panels have this problem. Exchange it until the artifact disappears (but half have done so unsuccessfully; getting another panel) My BENQ XL2411T (same panel as VG248QE) has the same scanlines issue at the upper-right corner.
> 
> If you want a panel that is guaranteed not to have this artifact, you will want to switch to the older 24" panels (e.g. XL2420T) which I do not recommend, or any of the 27" models (e.g. VG278H) which has better LightBoost color. The VG278H has the best LightBoost color of all the LightBoost monitors, for example. But not everyone likes 27".
> 
> If you want cheapest LightBoost, VG248QE is it.
> It actually does a good job of the CRT clarity, especially when you view www.testufo.com/#test=photo and even the very tough TestUFO Eiffel Tower test with darn near zero ghosting, and the fast moving tower looks exactly as sharp as stationary (zero motion blur) especially at lower LightBoost % settings.
> 
> Popular LightBoost gamma fix settings are:
> - nVidia Control Panel Desktop Brightness 52%
> - nVidia Control Panel Desktop Contrast 45%
> - nVidia Control Panel Desktop Gamma 0.70
> - Leave Digital Vibrance at factory default
> But it won't fix 100% of color problems, and the VG248QE isn't the best when it comes to color quality.
> 
> If you want the most colorful LightBoost, then you have to pony up extra money for an ASUS VG278H, and then reconfigure the VG278H to monitor OSD contrast of about 90, while also doing the above color fixes. VG278H has slightly more ghosting in the TestUFO Eiffel Tower test (www.testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=photo-eiffel.jpg) but you get far better LightBoost colors.


Why don't you recommend the old BenQ XL2420T?


----------



## Razor 116

In the UK the Xl2411T is over £40 cheaper than the VG248QE.


----------



## kevindd992002

If I decide to replace my XL2420TX with another 24" 3D panel, which would be the best choice?


----------



## surfbumb

any new 120/144hz monitors being released any time soon?


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> If I decide to replace my XL2420TX with another 24" 3D panel, which would be the best choice?


VG248QE and XL2411T seem to be the best in terms of compatibility with 2D light boost. I don't think any of the 24" ones have great color.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> VG248QE and XL2411T seem to be the best in terms of compatibility with 2D light boost. I don't think any of the 24" ones have great color.


Ok, thanks. How are they better than the XL2420TX? Is the 2411T a newer model than the 2420TX (not sure of this because 2411 is a lower number than 2420, if that even makes sense)?


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Ok, thanks. How are they better than the XL2420TX? Is the 2411T a newer model than the 2420TX (not sure of this because 2411 is a lower number than 2420, if that even makes sense)?


I feel like this info will be in the first search result on Google when typing XL2420T vs XL2411T

[edit] Yep


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Ok, thanks. How are they better than the XL2420TX? Is the 2411T a newer model than the 2420TX (not sure of this because 2411 is a lower number than 2420, if that even makes sense)?


Less artifacts and less ghosting, from what I've heard.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> I feel like this info will be in the first search result on Google when typing XL2420T vs XL2411T
> 
> [edit] Yep


Yes it did.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> Less artifacts and less ghosting, from what I've heard.


Oh ok. Between the XL2411T and ASUS VG248QE, which is better?


----------



## socketus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Yes it did.
> Oh ok. Between the *XL2411T and ASUS VG248QE*, which is better?


GOOGLE SAYZ !


----------



## Art Vanelay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *socketus*
> 
> GOOGLE SAYZ !


I don't know why that review brought up the adjustable trace free on the VG248QE when it was talking about light boost mode. You can't adjust trace free when light boost mode is on.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *socketus*
> 
> GOOGLE SAYZ !


sigh.

Google directs me to other forums. I'm biased towards OCN that's why I'm asking directly here.


----------



## socketus

but ... but ... but... it mentions lightboost n all !

it may be from February of this year, but it mentions all the relevant aspects. Sheesh... do i gotta really quote from it ? So, you're in the Phillipines ... are both available ? which is the cheaper ? I'd go with that as the final deciding factor. Forget questions about greatest or best ... its an increMENTAL thang ...

In this comparison between the two monitors it is really very difficult to pick a clear winner. It is certainly worth looking through our reviews of both models for a more thorough analysis. The XL2411T has a slight edge in its colour quality with better gamma handling at 144Hz. It is possible to improve things on the desktop, where most users would find these issues most noticeable, by applying an ICC profile. We provide one for AMD and another for Nvidia users in our VG248QE review.

Both monitors are exceptionally responsive and can also be used (in a hacky way, currently) by Nvidia users with LightBoost in 2D for a 'CRT-like' blur-free experience. LightBoost aside, the ASUS does have a slight edge here in that it has more flexible pixel overdrive options. In its intermediate settings it maintains excellent pixel responsiveness and very low levels of 'conventional trailing', whilst suffering from less inverse ghosting than the BenQ (AMA High or Premium). Not all users are bothered by this, though.

With both having their pros and cons the real clincher could be the price and availability. In the United States only the ASUS is currently available - and is available at an excellent price of under $300. In many other regions the price is a bit higher and the BenQ model is actually available to consider. In the UK, for example, the ASUS typically costs around £300 whereas the BenQ typically costs £240 or under. The only real reason to plump for the VG248QE, for £60 more, would be if you know that the inverse ghosting would bother you. Or you prefer how it looks. Or, perhaps, that your graphics card lacks a DVI output but offers DisplayPort or Mini DisplayPort.


----------



## mdrejhon

Among tests on *120Hz LightBoost monitors*... the forum knowledge collective on several forums, thanks to Vega tests, my tests, hazmatm tests, (corroborated by at least 3 other independent forum user confirmations), the LightBoost winners has gradually converged into this average:

*LightBoost Faint-Ghost Effect*
In general, LightBoost crosstalk artifact (faint sharp double ghost) based on the *TestUFO Eiffel Tower Test*

LightBoost best (double ghost nearly gone) -- VG248QE, XL2411T, XL2420T*E*
LightBoost middle (double ghost faintly) -- VG278H, XL2720T
LightBoost worst (double ghost worse) -- XL2420T, XL2420TX, some older VG278H*E*'s

*LightBoost Color Quality*
Also, for LightBoost color quality. Comparisions are best done after a quick calibration, adjust monitor contrast to a several notches below white clipping, then do nVidia Control Panel Desktop Brightness=52, Contrast=47, Gamma=0.70, Vibrance=50 (unmodified Vibrance) for more colorful LightBoost with full greyscale ramp.

LightBoost best colors -- VG278H, VG278HE, XL2720T, XL2420T, XL2420TX
LightBoost worse colors -- VG248QE, XL2411T, XL2420T*E*

*LightBoost Overall Winners*
Best Combined Quality (Colors+CRT Effect) -- VG278H, XL2720T, followed by VG278H*E*
Best CRT Effect -- VG248QE, XL2411T, XL2420T*E**
Best Price (if colors not a concern) -- VG248QE in North America, XL2411T in Europe
_Special mention goes to XL2420T*E* as being the first PWM-free 120Hz monitor that can dim to extremely dim levels in non-LightBoost mode, which is good for a low-eyestrain 120Hz monitor_


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *socketus*
> 
> but ... but ... but... it mentions lightboost n all !
> 
> it may be from February of this year, but it mentions all the relevant aspects. Sheesh... do i gotta really quote from it ? So, you're in the Phillipines ... are both available ? which is the cheaper ? I'd go with that as the final deciding factor. Forget questions about greatest or best ... its an increMENTAL thang ...
> 
> In this comparison between the two monitors it is really very difficult to pick a clear winner. It is certainly worth looking through our reviews of both models for a more thorough analysis. The XL2411T has a slight edge in its colour quality with better gamma handling at 144Hz. It is possible to improve things on the desktop, where most users would find these issues most noticeable, by applying an ICC profile. We provide one for AMD and another for Nvidia users in our VG248QE review.
> 
> Both monitors are exceptionally responsive and can also be used (in a hacky way, currently) by Nvidia users with LightBoost in 2D for a 'CRT-like' blur-free experience. LightBoost aside, the ASUS does have a slight edge here in that it has more flexible pixel overdrive options. In its intermediate settings it maintains excellent pixel responsiveness and very low levels of 'conventional trailing', whilst suffering from less inverse ghosting than the BenQ (AMA High or Premium). Not all users are bothered by this, though.
> 
> With both having their pros and cons the real clincher could be the price and availability. In the United States only the ASUS is currently available - and is available at an excellent price of under $300. In many other regions the price is a bit higher and the BenQ model is actually available to consider. In the UK, for example, the ASUS typically costs around £300 whereas the BenQ typically costs £240 or under. The only real reason to plump for the VG248QE, for £60 more, would be if you know that the inverse ghosting would bother you. Or you prefer how it looks. Or, perhaps, that your graphics card lacks a DVI output but offers DisplayPort or Mini DisplayPort.


Now that's my bad because I didn't notice that your reply contained a link. I apologize.

No, both aren't even available in the Philippines. I usually source not-available-here components from the US. I'm contemplating though if I should sell my XL2420TX just to replace it with either of the two monitors in question. Is it even worth it?


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Now that's my bad because I didn't notice that your reply contained a link. I apologize.
> 
> No, both aren't even available in the Philippines. I usually source not-available-here components from the US. I'm contemplating though if I should sell my XL2420TX just to replace it with either of the two monitors in question. Is it even worth it?


It depends on you man. Depends on your impression of the product.
The XL2420T is the same as the XL2420TX so we basically have the same monitor, minus the IR emitter.

People have shown that this monitor has inverse ghosting due to overdrive but for me it's a non-issue. I pretty much use lightboost mode 24/7, unless I'm watching a movie on my monitor.

Do you like your monitor? Is there anything wrong with it? Does it provide an enjoyable experience?

Only reason I would replace it is if the inverse ghosting bothers you. You're not going to get amazing colors on any of the Lightboost monitors anyway so if you upgrade it would be such a small difference in my opinion.

The biggest upgrade, as I see it is if you got someone like Vega to remove the matte film on whichever monitor you choose.


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Art Vanelay*
> 
> I don't know why that review brought up the adjustable trace free on the VG248QE when it was talking about light boost mode. You can't adjust trace free when light boost mode is on.


Where was TraceFree mentioned in the LightBoost section of the review? It was only mentioned when discussing the monitor during normal operation.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> It depends on you man. Depends on your impression of the product.
> The XL2420T is the same as the XL2420TX so we basically have the same monitor, minus the IR emitter.
> 
> People have shown that this monitor has inverse ghosting due to overdrive but for me it's a non-issue. I pretty much use lightboost mode 24/7, unless I'm watching a movie on my monitor.
> 
> Do you like your monitor? Is there anything wrong with it? Does it provide an enjoyable experience?
> 
> Only reason I would replace it is if the inverse ghosting bothers you. You're not going to get amazing colors on any of the Lightboost monitors anyway so if you upgrade it would be such a small difference in my opinion.
> 
> The biggest upgrade, as I see it is if you got someone like Vega to remove the matte film on whichever monitor you choose.


Fair enough. I actually haven't tried applying the Lightboost mod for my monitor yet but am planning to do it soon. As far as I can say, I'm not too picky in terms of little quality details in my display monitors and my speakers. As long as they are practical high-end products then I'm good. With this said, I'm more of leaning on not selling my XL2420TX because it is still a good monitor, really.

Is the LB hack easy to do? Just follow the steps in the OP?


----------



## socketus

Search this thread - should be a few pages back - for the latest ToastyX Strobelight beta - yah, it is in the OP, linked from LightBoost HOWTO text in the first few sentences of the OP.

http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost/

Scroll down a bit till you see this text:

NEW INSTRUCTIONS! - No registry tweaks! - No .reg or .inf files!

LightBoost is easily enabled with ToastyX Strobelight Beta.
This allows you to turn ON/OFF LightBoost easily via a hotkey.

*ADD*: ah hell ... my bad. Here's the actual page for the Strobelight

http://www.blurbusters.com/easy-lightboost-toastyx-strobelight/


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *socketus*
> 
> Search this thread - should be a few pages back - for the latest ToastyX Strobelight beta - yah, it is in the OP, linked from LightBoost HOWTO text in the first few sentences of the OP.
> 
> http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost/
> 
> Scroll down a bit till you see this text:
> 
> NEW INSTRUCTIONS! - No registry tweaks! - No .reg or .inf files!
> 
> LightBoost is easily enabled with ToastyX Strobelight Beta.
> This allows you to turn ON/OFF LightBoost easily via a hotkey.
> 
> *ADD*: ah hell ... my bad. Here's the actual page for the Strobelight
> 
> http://www.blurbusters.com/easy-lightboost-toastyx-strobelight/


Thanks mate! Will read about this first.


----------



## socketus

Take your time, I tried the cru utility and got lucky after a few hours over 2 or 3 days, got 1 of my vg248qe monitors into lightboost, and it was AMAZUNG !

Problem was getting all 3 into LB mode ... never got there, got sidetracked - its not my main pc anyway. Looks like BF3 can be a bear, judging from the comments on the Strobelight page, but I was able to set fps rate to 120 in msi afterburner, and at 120Hz refresh rate, its awesome. Just wish I had those younger reflexes to go along with the no motion blur.

oh yah - if you use the CRU utility, DO install the nvidia 3d driver. Very stupid mistake on my part at first.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *socketus*
> 
> Take your time, I tried the cru utility and got lucky after a few hours over 2 or 3 days, got 1 of my vg248qe monitors into lightboost, and it was AMAZUNG !
> 
> Problem was getting all 3 into LB mode ... never got there, got sidetracked - its not my main pc anyway. Looks like BF3 can be a bear, judging from the comments on the Strobelight page, but I was able to set fps rate to 120 in msi afterburner, and at 120Hz refresh rate, its awesome. Just wish I had those younger reflexes to go along with the no motion blur.
> 
> oh yah - if you use the CRU utility, DO install the nvidia 3d driver. Very stupid mistake on my part at first.


Oh ok. I'm assuming that the CRU utility is also ToastyX Strobelight Beta utility?


----------



## kevindd992002

When I install the the new ToastyX Strobelight Beta utility, why do I need to add up to four resolutions? If I want to game in 3D, do I need to turn off the utility first?


----------



## Scorpion667

Just do 120hz lightboost and 121hz non lightboost so you can switch on the fly. You don't need to add all 4


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> This could be theoretically done at the driver level.
> 
> Basically the nVidia drivers could be tricked into thinking the display is only 60Hz while the display is actually 120Hz. And the drivers inserts black frames in between the "60Hz refreshes". Then all games would work, no matter which game, as the game would think it's outputting to a 60Hz monitor.
> 
> The drivers would be doing the BFI for motion blur reduciton, in a manner similiar to *www.testufo.com/#test=blackframes* by using this same type of technique for 60fps @ 120Hz.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Just do 120hz lightboost and 121hz non lightboost so you can switch on the fly. You don't need to add all 4


Oh ok. If I set 121Hz then I press Ctrl+Alt+Minus, then it will just turn off Lightboost but will retain the refresh rate of the screen at 120Hz? 121Hz is just to let the display know that it is being set to a non-supported refresh rate, is this correct?

Also, let's say I can only get up to 80fps in a specific game would it be better to use 100Hz strobe instead of 120Hz since 80fps is closer to 100Hz?

Is using BFI (software strobing) to achieve 60Hz Lightboost effect bad for the display? Is this the reason why it is not recommended?


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Oh ok. If I set 121Hz then I press Ctrl+Alt+Minus, then it will just turn off Lightboost but will retain the refresh rate of the screen at 120Hz? 121Hz is just to let the display know that it is being set to a non-supported refresh rate, is this correct?
> 
> Also, let's say I can only get up to 80fps in a specific game would it be better to use 100Hz strobe instead of 120Hz since 80fps is closer to 100Hz?
> 
> Is using BFI (software strobing) to achieve 60Hz Lightboost effect bad for the display? Is this the reason why it is not recommended?


Yeah that hotkey will toggle lightboost as you said. All I know is you can't input 120hz twice so I used 121 lol. I'm not aware of any benefit to lowering your monitor refresh rate to match FPS. Lowering the refresh rate actually lowers the monitor's performance I think. I read it on prad.de review or something, the ghosting was worse at 100hz rather then 120hz for this panel.


----------



## VettePilot

I may grab a 2720 and remove the matte. I can find one pretty cheap


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Yeah that hotkey will toggle lightboost as you said. All I know is you can't input 120hz twice so I used 121 lol. I'm not aware of any benefit to lowering your monitor refresh rate to match FPS. Lowering the refresh rate actually lowers the monitor's performance I think. I read it on prad.de review or something, the ghosting was worse at 100hz rather then 120hz for this panel.


I hope someone with experience with this can explain further what does adding multiple resolution in this utility really do?

Yes, I guess so, but it all depends on what your video card can do. I have an overclocked GTX 670 and I'm not yet sure what is its max potential.


----------



## Draygonn

Would it be a problem to run a Lightboost display as center screen with non-lightboost monitors on the sides?


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Thanks Mdrejhon for that info on the H and the HE.. After reading that I'm going to use a H for my center and two HE's for the sides.. That'll also give me 3d to play with when I feel but the beauty of 2d light-boost 24/7 with the best viewing monitor in the middle... Cheers for that..


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Draygonn*
> 
> Would it be a problem to run a Lightboost display as center screen with non-lightboost monitors on the sides?


I actually tried this myself with using an Asus VG278HE light boosted for the center and two Acer GD245HQ as the sides. In non light boost mode nvidia will let you do triple monitor spanning, but when the light boost monitor is activated and the other are left non light boosted, the Nvidia drivers come with an error message and state that all monitor must be of the same, resolution, Frequency and timings.. The first two items match but when going from light boost and non light boost the monitors timings change and becomes a mismatch.. So it cant be done.. The driver wont even let you try to see what its like. Its an Nvidia thing.. .


----------



## xeek

Hey,

im using the BenQ XL2411T @120hz 10% with the ToastyX Strobelight Beta and the Geforce 320.49 Driver since 2 weeks now.

Everything works great but like once a day or maybe even less, my monitor is going black and my pc does the "plug out -> plug in" sound, it's the same when you plug in/out an usb stick.
After the plug in sound my Monitor works again but since i never had this problem before, i think it has something to do with lightboost.

So has anyone experienced something like this before and knows how to fix this?
I'm using 10% Lightboost 24/7 (because i don't want to recalibrate my picture everytime i turn it off) and now i have fear that my monitor or something else is being damaged.

thanks if someone can help me


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> I actually tried this myself with using an Asus VG278HE light boosted for the center and two Acer GD245HQ as the sides. In non light boost mode nvidia will let you do triple monitor spanning, but when the light boost monitor is activated and the other are left non light boosted, the Nvidia drivers come with an error message and state that all monitor must be of the same, resolution, Frequency and timings.. The first two items match but when going from light boost and non light boost the monitors timings change and becomes a mismatch.. So it cant be done.. The driver wont even let you try to see what its like. Its an Nvidia thing.. .


It actually would work if you use the exact same timings as LightBoost on the GD245HQ's, provided the GD245HQ sync'd to the same timings as well. There are many non-LightBoost 120Hz monitors that successfully sync to the same timings normally assigned to a monitor in LightBoost mode, but it requires the use of ToastyX CRU (much harder) instead of ToastyX Strobelight (much easier).

That said, I do not recommend mixing and matching LightBoost / non-LightBoost monitors in spanning mode.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Oh ok. I'm assuming that the CRU utility is also ToastyX Strobelight Beta utility?


They're actually two separate utilities. ToastyX Strobelight is specially designed for LightBoost use, while ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility is a more advanced user utility that can also additionally be used for LightBoost if you need far more control over modes. ToastyX Strobelight is much easier to use but may not accomodate all special use cases.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xeek*
> 
> im using the BenQ XL2411T @120hz 10% with the ToastyX Strobelight Beta and the Geforce 320.49 Driver since 2 weeks now.
> Everything works great but like once a day or maybe even less, my monitor is going black and my pc does the "plug out -> plug in" sound, it's the same when you plug in/out an usb stick.


Does it happen at any specific pattern, such as under high GPU load? Other computer upgrades that you did at the same time, would be relevant information.


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> It actually would work if you use the exact same timings as LightBoost on the GD245HQ's, provided the GD245HQ sync'd to the same timings as well. There are many non-LightBoost 120Hz monitors that successfully sync to the same timings normally assigned to a monitor in LightBoost mode, but it requires the use of ToastyX CRU (much harder) instead of ToastyX Strobelight (much easier).
> 
> That said, I do not recommend mixing and matching LightBoost / non-LightBoost monitors in spanning mode.
> .


You are the man!
When running them (a VG278HE for center and two GD245HQ's as sides) in non-light-boost mode, they did run in triple monitor no problems at all. Abit 120Hz (the Acers max frequency) BUT because they are both 24 inch and the center is 27 inch, and all 3 are running the same resolution, none of the spanning lined up.. For instance, a box that was 100mm square on the 27 inch, when panned across over the bezel to the 24 inch became 75mm (roughly). So it pretty much negates the want to span at all. It just doesn't all line up properly for the full effect. I ditched the whole idea. I'm waiting to pick up my VG278H and VG278HE to pair up with the HE I already have. Should get them tomorrow..


----------



## xeek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Does it happen at any specific pattern, such as under high GPU load? Other computer upgrades that you did at the same time, would be relevant information.


I haven't upgraded anything else and it only happenend when i played games such as cs:go or world of warcraft, but i don't think that my GTX580 is under high load with these games. Atleast i never had this problem with my old Monitor and the same gpu in these games.

I searched a litte bit in this thread and found this post, it looks like im not the only one with this problem:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1339384/zero-motion-blur-lcd-nvidia-lightboost-hack-looks-like-crt-looks-like-480hz/1000#post_20028853

but i found nothing that could fix the problem


----------



## OccamRazor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xeek*
> 
> I haven't upgraded anything else and it only happenend when i played games such as cs:go or world of warcraft, but i don't think that my GTX580 is under high load with these games. Atleast i never had this problem with my old Monitor and the same gpu in these games.
> 
> I searched a litte bit in this thread and found this post, it looks like im not the only one with this problem:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1339384/zero-motion-blur-lcd-nvidia-lightboost-hack-looks-like-crt-looks-like-480hz/1000#post_20028853
> 
> but i found nothing that could fix the problem


Keep tracking that thread and the blur busters site: http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost/
its the monitor inf file in addition to the drivers that cause the problem.
Soon it will be fixed!









Cheers

Ed


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> They're actually two separate utilities. ToastyX Strobelight is specially designed for LightBoost use, while ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility is a more advanced user utility that can also additionally be used for LightBoost if you need far more control over modes. ToastyX Strobelight is much easier to use but may not accomodate all special use cases.


Thanks. I have some additional questions:

When I install the the new ToastyX Strobelight Beta utility, why do I need to add up to four resolutions? If I want to game in 3D, do I need to turn off the utility first?

If I set 121Hz then I press Ctrl+Alt+Minus, then it will just turn off Lightboost but will retain the refresh rate of the screen at 120Hz? 121Hz is just to let the display know that it is being set to a non-supported refresh rate, is this correct?

Also, let's say I can only get up to 80fps in a specific game would it be better to use 100Hz strobe instead of 120Hz since 80fps is closer to 100Hz?

Is using BFI (software strobing) to achieve 60Hz Lightboost effect bad for the display? Is this the reason why it is not recommended?


----------



## VettePilot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> It actually would work if you use the exact same timings as LightBoost on the GD245HQ's, provided the GD245HQ sync'd to the same timings as well. There are many non-LightBoost 120Hz monitors that successfully sync to the same timings normally assigned to a monitor in LightBoost mode, but it requires the use of ToastyX CRU (much harder) instead of ToastyX Strobelight (much easier).
> 
> That said, I do not recommend mixing and matching LightBoost / non-LightBoost monitors in spanning mode.
> They're actually two separate utilities. ToastyX Strobelight is specially designed for LightBoost use, while ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility is a more advanced user utility that can also additionally be used for LightBoost if you need far more control over modes. ToastyX Strobelight is much easier to use but may not accomodate all special use cases.
> Does it happen at any specific pattern, such as under high GPU load? Other computer upgrades that you did at the same time, would be relevant information.


I finally used the UFO test and I am seeing a lot of framestutter up to about 40 and then it will be fine for a bit. FPS will drop from 120 to about 80 then back up to 120. Could this be an issue with running the monitor via HDMI at 120hz? I tried with the DP connection and it still gets a lot of framestutter.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Topgearfan*
> 
> I finally used the UFO test and I am seeing a lot of framestutter up to about 40 and then it will be fine for a bit. FPS will drop from 120 to about 80 then back up to 120. Could this be an issue with running the monitor via HDMI at 120hz? I tried with the DP connection and it still gets a lot of framestutter.


Framestutter of this type is caused by the browser, not the monitor. Please try a different browser -- www.testufo.com/browser.html (e.g. Chrome vs Opera) and if using Chrome, make sure everything is enabled within chrome://gpu for full motion fluidity. You need a GPU-accelerated web browsers to run TestUFO smoothly, and some browsers still has bugs with these motion tests.


----------



## VettePilot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Framestutter of this type is caused by the browser, not the monitor. Please try a different browser -- www.testufo.com/browser.html (e.g. Chrome vs Opera) and if using Chrome, make sure everything is enabled within chrome://gpu for full motion fluidity. You need a GPU-accelerated web browsers to run TestUFO smoothly, and some browsers still has bugs with these motion tests.


I did use chrome since IE doesn't support 120hz. Here is what chrome://gpu says:

raphics Feature Status
Canvas: Hardware accelerated
Compositing: Hardware accelerated on all pages and threaded
3D CSS: Hardware accelerated
CSS Animation: Accelerated and threaded
WebGL: Hardware accelerated
WebGL multisampling: Hardware accelerated
Flash 3D: Hardware accelerated
Flash Stage3D: Hardware accelerated
Flash Stage3D Baseline profile: Hardware accelerated
Texture Sharing: Hardware accelerated
Video Decode: Hardware accelerated
Video: Hardware accelerated
Panel Fitting: Unavailable. Hardware acceleration disabled.
Rasterization: Software only. Hardware acceleration disabled.

Problems Detected
Enable panel fitting capability on ChromeOS only on IVB and SNB Graphics Controllers.
Panel fitting is unavailable, either disabled at the command line or not supported by the current system.
Accelerated rasterization has not been enabled or is not supported by the current system.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Topgearfan*
> 
> I did use chrome since IE doesn't support 120hz. Here is what chrome://gpu says:


For perfect fluidity in www.testufo.com motion animations, try:
-- Make sure nothing is running in background (Task Manager 0%)
-- Make sure no other apps or browser tabs are running. Browser animations are very sensitive to other things running on the same system.
-- If you still have problems, you may need to run single monitor temporarily (as recommended by www.testufo.com/browser.html ...)
-- A fresh boot can help too.

TestUFO is undergoing beta testing, and only about 90-95% of gamer systems (with a GPU) seem to run it smoothly -- there is about 5% to 10% of users that seem unable to run TestUFO smoothly even in a browser.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Also, let's say I can only get up to 80fps in a specific game would it be better to use 100Hz strobe instead of 120Hz since 80fps is closer to 100Hz?


Depends on VSYNC ON or Adaptive VSYNC.
VSYNC OFF -- try using highest refresh rate
Adaptive VSYNC -- try using framerate closer to average refresh rate

Adjusting to use FXAA instead of FSAA can also give you a big framerate boost. Changing certain settings like decreasing shader detail by one notch, and decreasing view distance by one notch, may give you what you need to run 100fps instead of 80fps, etc.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Depends on VSYNC ON or Adaptive VSYNC.
> VSYNC OFF -- try using highest refresh rate
> Adaptive VSYNC -- try using framerate closer to average refresh rate
> 
> Adjusting to use FXAA instead of FSAA can also give you a big framerate boost. Changing certain settings like decreasing shader detail by one notch, and decreasing view distance by one notch, may give you what you need to run 100fps instead of 80fps, etc.


Do you mean VSYNC OFF or VSYNC ON? I don't understand, VSYNC only works if your fps exceeds your set refresh rate, right? So with my example of 80fps and my monitor set to 120hz, VSYNC ON would practically do nothing, right?

How about for my other questions especially those concerning BFI?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Do you mean VSYNC OFF or VSYNC ON?


It is an input lag versus fluidity versus tearing compromise enable/disable VSYNC depending on your refresh rate. The clearest possible LightBoost motion occurs at framerate=Hz. But if your framerate is low, trying to do 80fps during VSYNC on at 120Hz, will tend to limit you to 60fps because it "rounds off to the next frame". Using either Adaptive VSYNC or VSYNC OFF avoids that, but you can get tearing.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> It is an input lag versus fluidity versus tearing compromise enable/disable VSYNC depending on your refresh rate. The clearest possible LightBoost motion occurs at framerate=Hz. But if your framerate is low, trying to do 80fps during VSYNC on at 120Hz, will tend to limit you to 60fps because it "rounds off to the next frame". Using either Adaptive VSYNC or VSYNC OFF avoids that, but you can get tearing.


I understand. But basically in my case, adaptive vsync and vsync off produces the same result (vysnc is DISABLED), right? So why did you mention this, I mean why is the advice still different for both situations:

_VSYNC OFF -- try using highest refresh rate
Adaptive VSYNC -- try using framerate closer to average refresh rate
_

??

Basically my question is what strobe refresh rate do I use if my fps is just 80fps for my 120Hz monitor. Do I use 100Hz strobe or 120Hz strobe?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> I understand. But basically in my case, adaptive vsync and vsync off produces the same result (vysnc is DISABLED), right? So why did you mention this, I mean why is the advice still different for both situations:
> 
> _VSYNC OFF -- try using highest refresh rate
> Adaptive VSYNC -- try using framerate closer to average refresh rate
> _


Adaptive VSYNC looks exactly like VSYNC ON (but with less input lag) whenever framerate matches or exceeds refresh rate. So if you're averaging [email protected], small tweaks of game settings can make it more sustained [email protected], which allows motion to look perfect during either VSYNC ON or Adaptive VSYNC. Adaptive VSYNC only looks like VSYNC OFF whenever the framerate slows down; tearing suddenly appears instead of a sudden framerate slowdown (lesser of evil during competitive gaming)
Quote:


> Basically my question is what strobe refresh rate do I use if my fps is just 80fps for my 120Hz monitor. Do I use 100Hz strobe or 120Hz strobe?


It's not possible to always answer this question definitively for situations where framerate is not synchronized with Hz. It is game dependant / microstutter dependant. Sometimes [email protected] looks smoother, and sometimes [email protected] looks smoother. It has a lot to do with the consistency/cadence of the frames (even when compared at the same VSYNC setting), aka microstutters can get better or worse after switching refresh rates.

As a general rule of thumb, it often looks smoother when your framerate gets pretty close to refresh rate (e.g. 80fps @ 100Hz), but that does not happen with all games, and you get tradeoffs: You can get slightly more input lag at lower refresh rates. That said, improved motion quality can compensate for a small millisecond or two of input lag for some people, depending on your gameplay styles. And with some games, there's a potential hill of increased stutters as you struggle to reach framerate=Hz nirvana (where all stutters suddenly disappear). Strobing can make stutters very easy to see, even at [email protected] So some people prefer LightBoost for 120fps (framerate=Hz), but prefer 144Hz for 80fps (framerate not equal Hz), because stutters are so easy to see with CRT's and LightBoost.

The answer is only definitive at framerate=Hz (mathematical perfection) if best motion quality is the primary goal over all else. During synchronized framerate=Hz is where motion resolution is maximized, for the full zero motion blur effect, untarnished by microstutters.

The true answer for 80fps on 120Hz is: Try all settings. Find what you prefer. Use your eyes.








- Try 120Hz VSYNC OFF
- Try 100Hz VSYNC OFF
- Try 100Hz VSYNC Adaptive
- Try temporarily reducing detail levels to get the coveted framerate=Hz (e.g. [email protected])
- Etc.
Find which mode your eyes prefer, and how it feels in terms of input lag for you.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Adaptive VSYNC looks exactly like VSYNC ON (but with less input lag) whenever framerate matches or exceeds refresh rate. So if you're averaging [email protected], small tweaks of game settings can make it more sustained [email protected], which allows motion to look perfect during either VSYNC ON or Adaptive VSYNC. Adaptive VSYNC only looks like VSYNC OFF whenever the framerate slows down; tearing suddenly appears instead of a sudden framerate slowdown (lesser of evil during competitive gaming)
> It's not possible to always answer this question definitively for situations where framerate is not synchronized with Hz. It is game dependant / microstutter dependant. Sometimes [email protected] looks smoother, and sometimes [email protected] looks smoother. It has a lot to do with the consistency/cadence of the frames (even when compared at the same VSYNC setting), aka microstutters can get better or worse after switching refresh rates.
> 
> As a general rule of thumb, it often looks smoother when your framerate gets pretty close to refresh rate (e.g. 80fps @ 100Hz), but that does not happen with all games, and you get tradeoffs: You can get slightly more input lag at lower refresh rates. That said, improved motion quality can compensate for a small millisecond or two of input lag for some people, depending on your gameplay styles. And with some games, there's a potential hill of increased stutters as you struggle to reach framerate=Hz nirvana (where all stutters suddenly disappear). Strobing can make stutters very easy to see, even at [email protected] So some people prefer LightBoost for 120fps (framerate=Hz), but prefer 144Hz for 80fps (framerate not equal Hz), because stutters are so easy to see with CRT's and LightBoost.
> 
> The answer is only definitive at framerate=Hz (mathematical perfection) if best motion quality is the primary goal over all else. During synchronized framerate=Hz is where motion resolution is maximized, for the full zero motion blur effect, untarnished by microstutters.
> 
> The true answer for 80fps on 120Hz is: Try all settings. Find what you prefer. Use your eyes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Try 120Hz VSYNC OFF
> - Try 100Hz VSYNC OFF
> - Try 100Hz VSYNC Adaptive
> - Try temporarily reducing detail levels to get the coveted framerate=Hz (e.g. [email protected])
> - Etc.
> Find which mode your eyes prefer, and how it feels in terms of input lag for you.


Got it! Thank you for this very detailed response. I pretty much get the gist now.

What happens if you use the 144Hz option in the ToastyX's utility if your screen can just support up to 120Hz?


----------



## socketus

Well, I'd think that it would be out of range, so your monitor will not give you a pic at all. Or will self correct with an onscreen warning message.


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Strobing can make stutters very easy to see, even at [email protected] So some people prefer LightBoost for 120fps (framerate=Hz), but prefer 144Hz for 80fps (framerate not equal Hz), because stutters are so easy to see with CRT's and LightBoost.
> 
> The answer is only definitive at framerate=Hz (mathematical perfection) if best motion quality is the primary goal over all else. During synchronized framerate=Hz is where motion resolution is maximized, for the full zero motion blur effect, untarnished by microstutters.


Nuff said.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> What happens if you use the 144Hz option in the ToastyX's utility if your screen can just support up to 120Hz?


Usually, your monitor will just display a blank black screen during 144Hz. Some monitors such as XL2411T actually can support 144Hz even though the manufacturer doesn't advertise it very well.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Usually, your monitor will just display a blank black screen during 144Hz. Some monitors such as XL2411T actually can support 144Hz even though the manufacturer doesn't advertise it very well.


Ok thanks. Would using the 121Hz non-strobed (which is within range) be as effective as using 120Hz non-strobed?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Usually, your monitor will just display a blank black screen during 144Hz. Some monitors such as XL2411T actually can support 144Hz even though the manufacturer doesn't advertise it very well.


Ok thanks. Would using the 121Hz non-strobed (which is within range) be as effective as using 120Hz non-strobed?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Ok thanks. Would using the 121Hz non-strobed (which is within range) be as effective as using 120Hz non-strobed?


It's exactly the same to the human eye. The two modes are actually only 0.5Hz apart. It's only called 121Hz, because Windows needs two separate refresh rates to easily enable/disable LightBoost. ToastyX solved the LightBoost enable/disable problem by using 120Hz for LightBoost, and 120.5Hz for non-LightBoost (rounded to 121Hz).

Via ToastyX Strobelight, install:
120Hz strobed
121Hz non-strobed.

It works fine on all LightBoost monitors.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> It's exactly the same to the human eye. The two modes are actually only 0.5Hz apart. It's only called 121Hz, because Windows needs two separate refresh rates to easily enable/disable LightBoost. ToastyX solved the LightBoost enable/disable problem by using 120Hz for LightBoost, and 120.5Hz for non-LightBoost (rounded to 121Hz).
> 
> Via ToastyX Strobelight, install:
> 120Hz strobed
> 121Hz non-strobed.
> 
> It works fine on all LightBoost monitors.


Oh ok, that's good.

Say for example I'm in the 120Hz strobed mode and in 2D mode, then I decided to go into 3D mode for a single game what do I do (Stereoscopic mode in the NVIDIA panel is disabled as per recommendation)?


----------



## nlmiller0015

well im sticking with lightboost till I try one of benq none flicker monitors for some reason my eyes dont hurt much when using light boost thank toasty for strobe light exe it working perfectly.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> for some reason my eyes dont hurt much when using light boost thank toasty for strobe light exe it working perfectly.


LightBoost has less eyestrain than non-LightBoost?

PWM flicker is different from LightBoost flicker for a few reasons (e.g. lack of motion blur eyestrain). Some people are more bothered by motion blur eyestrain (or PWM motion artifacts) than by flicker eyestrain. It depends on the person.


----------



## Monyet

I'm about to bust a nut. I don't know what the hell has happened but I have tried everything to fix it. I think it is either a cable or monitor or it could be the strobelight program. Basically, I can't run anything in 3D Vision now, even the test application in the Nvidia control panel. Every time I run anything in 3D I get that annoying message in red and the eyes are reversed.

Everything seems to look fine, 5760x1080x32x120 and yet the card doesn't like this mode and says it's wrong so, I think to start with I should remove strobelight-beta. Any registry keys I need to know about to fully remove it?

Oh the only time I managed to fix it was when I completely unplugged the power to all 3 monitors. but after a few minutes I heard a windows sound like hardware disconnecting and then it went back to displaying that message.

Update: Did I mention I was running Windows 8? I've had nothing but trouble with it and it can kiss the lowest part on the back of my ass. After getting rid of that utter crapfest and back on to Windows 7 everything is running perfectly, 3D Surround included.


----------



## coolhandluke41

I'm having hard time getting this to work and suspecting corrupted win since when I download INI File it saves in VLC and when I add it to CRU utility it shows but I can't set it up via Nvida Control Panel

Can someone post or PM me INI File in zip or help me with this
Thank you


----------



## Arc0s

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coolhandluke41*
> 
> I'm having hard time getting this to work and suspecting corrupted win since when I download INI File it saves in VLC and when I add it to CRU utility it shows but I can't set it up via Nvida Control Panel
> 
> Can someone post or PM me INI File in zip or help me with this
> Thank you






Remember to click the "Edit" button and change the monitor "Product ID" to ACI27F8.


----------



## coolhandluke41

ok I see it ..it looks like it defaulted when I rein-staled the driver ,I copy-pasted ACI27F8 and things are a lot dimer now I guess it's working now
thank you


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coolhandluke41*
> 
> ok I see it ..it looks like it defaulted when I rein-staled the driver ,I copy-pasted ACI27F8 and things are a lot dimer now I guess it's working now
> thank you


Have you ever tried the brand new ToastyX Strobelight beta? Instead of ToastyX CRU? It now makes it easy to turn on/off LightBoost via a hotkey (all 3 monitors simultaneously at the same time).

Are you using ToastyX CRU so you can get the bezel correction features, or other features?


----------



## kevindd992002

@mdrejhon

Say for example I'm in the 120Hz strobed mode and in 2D mode, then I decided to go into 3D mode for a single game what do I do (Stereoscopic mode in the NVIDIA panel is disabled as per recommendation)?

What is your say on BFI?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Say for example I'm in the 120Hz strobed mode and in 2D mode, then I decided to go into 3D mode for a single game what do I do (Stereoscopic mode in the NVIDIA panel is disabled as per recommendation)?


For 3D stereoscopic mode, strobing is always enabled. Just re-enabled Steroscopic mode in NVIDIA Control Panel, whenever you want to run 3D Vision in your game, and then turn off the checkbox when you're going back to regular LightBoost 2D.

Some configurations have difficulty enabling 3D Vision, so you may need to fiddle with this a bit, until you're able to switch between 2D LightBoost (3D Vision disabled) and 3D LightBoost (3D Vision enabled). This is much easier with the vendor-supported method than with the 3D Vision method.


----------



## coolhandluke41

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *coolhandluke41*
> 
> ok I see it ..it looks like it defaulted when I rein-staled the driver ,I copy-pasted ACI27F8 and things are a lot dimer now I guess it's working now
> thank you
> 
> 
> 
> Have you ever tried the brand new ToastyX Strobelight beta? Instead of ToastyX CRU? It now makes it easy to turn on/off LightBoost via a hotkey (all 3 monitors simultaneously at the same time).
> 
> Are you using ToastyX CRU so you can get the bezel correction features, or other features?
Click to expand...

link ? ,I also noticed -somewhere ,you mention 144Hz capability ..
Quote:


> Are you using ToastyX CRU so you can get the bezel correction features, or other features?


I just decide to try this out since I have vid .card capable of Lightboost ,what would be my best choice for my set up ?
Thank you

P.S. only one monitor at the moment ,prefer 2D


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> For 3D stereoscopic mode, strobing is always enabled. Just re-enabled Steroscopic mode in NVIDIA Control Panel, whenever you want to run 3D Vision in your game, and then turn off the checkbox when you're going back to regular LightBoost 2D.
> 
> Some configurations have difficulty enabling 3D Vision, so you may need to fiddle with this a bit, until you're able to switch between 2D LightBoost (3D Vision disabled) and 3D LightBoost (3D Vision enabled). This is much easier with the vendor-supported method than with the 3D Vision method.


What is the vendor-supported method and 3D Vision method exactly?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> What is the vendor-supported method and 3D Vision method exactly?


The first section of the LightBoost HOWTO:
http://www.blurbusters.com/lightboost/howto/

That said, it's not the preferred method for LightBoost 2D, because of the Control+T requirement, and the added input lag of 3D Vision overhead (even when deactivated by Control+T).
But it is applicable to you, since you have a 3D Vision kit, and want to use 3D Vision from time to time -- in this scenario, it works without hacks and without ToastyX utilities, if you live with the compromises.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> The first section of the LightBoost HOWTO:
> http://www.blurbusters.com/lightboost/howto/
> 
> That said, it's not the preferred method for LightBoost 2D, because of the Control+T requirement, and the added input lag of 3D Vision overhead (even when deactivated by Control+T).
> But it is applicable to you, since you have a 3D Vision kit, and want to use 3D Vision from time to time -- in this scenario, it works without hacks and without ToastyX utilities, if you live with the compromises.


In that case, would it be more preferred just to use the ToastyX Strobelight beta utility and just re-enable Stereoscopic 3D when I want to play in 3D? Will this have any disadvantage or whatsoever?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coolhandluke41*
> 
> link ? ,I also noticed -somewhere ,you mention 144Hz capability ..


The easy Strobelight Beta is at:
http://www.blurbusters.com/easy-lightboost-toastyx-strobelight/

You can see 60Hz vs 120Hz vs LightBoost to see the relative benefits of LightBoost, during the ideal situation of locked framerate=Hz motion.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> In that case, would it be more preferred just to use the ToastyX Strobelight beta utility and just re-enable Stereoscopic 3D when I want to play in 3D? Will this have any disadvantage or whatsoever?


Strobelight makes LightBoost 2D easier, but for some people it prevented them from using 3D Vision.
Your mileage may vary -- you can give this a try out and see how this works.

Blur Busters needs more data/feedback from people who want to use 3D Vision along with Strobelight, since Strobelight is designed for LightBoost 2D usage. Please tell me if you get Strobelight working while still allowing you to use 3D Vision.


----------



## coolhandluke41

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *coolhandluke41*
> 
> link ? ,I also noticed -somewhere ,you mention 144Hz capability ..
> 
> 
> 
> The easy Strobelight Beta is at:
> http://www.blurbusters.com/easy-lightboost-toastyx-strobelight/
> 
> You can see 60Hz vs 120Hz vs LightBoost to see the relative benefits of LightBoost, during the ideal situation of locked framerate=Hz motion.
Click to expand...

do I have to uninstall CRU in order to have Stroblight beta working properly ?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coolhandluke41*
> 
> do I have to uninstall CRU in order to have Stroblight beta working properly ?


No, but they will interact with each other a little bit. As long as you avoid using CRU to modify Strobelight's modes, you will usually be fine. Also, re-running strobelight-setup can overwrite/remove CRU modes, so backup your CRU modes if you need to keep them.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Strobelight makes LightBoost 2D easier, but for some people it prevented them from using 3D Vision.
> Your mileage may vary -- you can give this a try out and see how this works.
> 
> Blur Busters needs more data/feedback from people who want to use 3D Vision along with Strobelight, since Strobelight is designed for LightBoost 2D usage. Please tell me if you get Strobelight working while still allowing you to use 3D Vision.


Alright, I'll try it out and report back.


----------



## mdrejhon

LightBoost users, there is now a way to preserve the LightBoost effect in game play video files! It even preserves the LightBoost effect in the video, since the video is running at framerate matching Hz.

See this thread:
*World's First Web Embedded 120fps Game Play Video*


----------



## SightUp

Colors looks so dull. I feel I miss people when I am spinning quickly or they are in the shadows. I certainly notice the difference with Lightboost enabled but is it required? This just makes the images appear sharper, right? It doesn’t make them appear faster, right? Example: When enemy comes around a corner does Lightboost allow me to see him any sooner over 120hz?


----------



## whybother

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> Example: When enemy comes around a corner does Lightboost allow me to see him any sooner over 120hz?


Technically, Yes. The lack of motion blur will allow your brain to see movement faster and in greater detail. I have no idea if anyone has done measurements on this tho.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> Colors looks so dull. I feel I miss people when I am spinning quickly or they are in the shadows. I certainly notice the difference with Lightboost enabled but is it required? This just makes the images appear sharper, right? It doesn't make them appear faster, right? Example: When enemy comes around a corner does Lightboost allow me to see him any sooner over 120hz?


To improve LightBoost colors, use:
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Brightness = 52%
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Color = 45%
nVidia Control Panel Gamma = 0.70

That said, if you want better LightBoost contrast, and haven't purchased a monitor yet, get the VG278H instead of the VG248QE. The LightBoost colors are more colorful on the VG278H. If you prefer a ultrabright monitor, then maybe LightBoost is not for you. The trick is to minimize LightBoost drawbacks while maximizing LightBoost benefits, to make it as worthwhile is possible.


----------



## Syncope

To set up LightBoost to 10 % on the XL2420T is lowering it to "OFF" and then adjusting one notch, right?


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syncope*
> 
> To set up LightBoost to 10% on the XL2420T is lowering it to "OFF" and then adjusting one notch, right?


Yes.


----------



## SightUp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> To improve LightBoost colors, use:
> nVidia Control Panel Desktop Brightness = 52%
> nVidia Control Panel Desktop Color = 45%
> nVidia Control Panel Gamma = 0.70


This is for the XL2420T?


----------



## CYBER-SNIPA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whybother*
> 
> Technically, Yes. The lack of motion blur will allow your brain to see movement faster and in greater detail. I have no idea if anyone has done measurements on this tho.


Sounds cool and hopefully LightBoost will provide an edge???
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> That said, if you want better LightBoost contrast, and haven't purchased a monitor yet, get the VG278H instead of the VG248QE. The LightBoost colors are more colorful on the VG278H. If you prefer a ultrabright monitor, then maybe LightBoost is not for you. The trick is to minimize LightBoost drawbacks while maximizing LightBoost benefits, to make it as worthwhile is possible.


@mdrejhon -

I'm curious as to why the VG278H is recommended over the XL2720T? Is it purely for the picture quality it delivers whilst using LightBoost? As the VG278H only runs at 85Hz, as opposed to the 120Hz of the XL2720T. Or does Toasty's tool trick the PC into believing that the monitor is running at 120Hz?

Surely having the higher Hertz is preferential and would give the user the fastest refresh rate and less blur? Thus giving the player the edge with faster enemy spotting, greater detail and less motion blur???

Update: Question answered by noob model No# misquote!!! LOL


----------



## Draygonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CYBER-SNIPA*
> 
> I'm curious as to why the VG278H is recommended over the XL2420T? Is it purely for the picture quality it delivers whilst using LightBoost? As the VG278H only runs at 85Hz, as opposed to the 120Hz of the XL2420T. Or does Toasty's tool trick the PC into believing that the monitor is running at 120Hz?


VG278H is 120Hz. You must have been thinking of a different monitor.


----------



## CYBER-SNIPA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Draygonn*
> 
> VG278H is 120Hz. You must have been thinking of a different monitor.


LOL I was looking at the VE278H









The VG278H is not available in the UK. We can only get the VG278HE and HR, which are both 144Hz. The Benq XL2411T, XL2420T/E and XL2720T are available and a better option as they have the ability to rotate from Landscape to Portrait, where the Asus VG278HE doesn't. Also I meant to quote the XL2720T and not the XL2420T. Either way the Benq's look a better bet and slightly cheaper too!!!


----------



## SightUp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> This is for the XL2420T?


Bump!


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syncope*
> 
> To set up LightBoost to 10% on the XL2420T is lowering it to "OFF" and then adjusting one notch, right?


Or hitting Control+Alt+1 if you are running ToastyX Strobelight.

Control+Alt+1 = LightBoost 10% (playing at night)
Control+Alt+5 = LightBoost 50% (usual setting)
Control+Alt+0 = LightBoost 100% (playing on a sunny day)

Often works even while in the middle of the video game!


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> This is for the XL2420T?


All of them. All LightBoost monitors tend to benefit a lot. LightBoost mode causes nVidia to insert an artificial gamma bump (above and beyond what the hardware is doing), so these adjustments "undoes" the LightBoost gamma bleaching. It does darken LightBoost a bit, but the color saturation comes back.

*LightBoost Gamma Fix*
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Brightness = 52%
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Contrast = 45%
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Gamma = 0.70

--or--

*LightBoost Gamma Fix Settings (LIGHTER / MILD VERSION)*
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Brightness = 50%
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Contrast = 47%
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Gamma = 0.85

Alas, not all games "inherit" the Desktop adjustments, so adjust the in-game gamma downwards a little bit to compensate for the LightBoost bleach effect. However, these settings are precisely adjusted to allow you to see all shades at Lagom Contrast and Lagom Black Level on all LightBoost monitors (assuming the monitor Contrast isn't set too high -- clipping point is about Contrast OSD menu 90% for the VG278H, and about Contrast OSD menu 50% for VG248QE.)


----------



## Syncope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> However, these settings are precisely adjusted to allow you to see all shades at Lagom Contrast and Lagom Black Level on all LightBoost monitors (assuming the monitor Contrast isn't set too high -- clipping point is about Contrast OSD menu 90% for the VG278H, and about Contrast OSD menu 50% for VG248QE.)


How about OSD contrast on XL2420T? 50%?


----------



## CYBER-SNIPA

I wonder how this 240Hz Bad Boy would fare after the LightBoost effect was added???

http://www.eizo.com/global/products/duravision/fdf2405w/index.html#tab01


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CYBER-SNIPA*
> 
> I wonder how this 240Hz Bad Boy would fare after the LightBoost effect was added???
> 
> http://www.eizo.com/global/products/duravision/fdf2405w/index.html#tab01


Any idea about the price on that monitor?


----------



## SightUp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> All of them. All LightBoost monitors tend to benefit a lot. LightBoost mode causes nVidia to insert an artificial gamma bump (above and beyond what the hardware is doing), so these adjustments "undoes" the LightBoost gamma bleaching. It does darken LightBoost a bit, but the color saturation comes back.
> 
> *LightBoost Gamma Fix*
> nVidia Control Panel Desktop Brightness = 52%
> nVidia Control Panel Desktop Color = 45%
> nVidia Control Panel Desktop Gamma = 0.70
> 
> --or--
> 
> *LightBoost Gamma Fix Settings (LIGHTER / MILD VERSION)*
> nVidia Control Panel Desktop Brightness = 50%
> nVidia Control Panel Desktop Color = 47%
> nVidia Control Panel Desktop Gamma = 0.85
> 
> Alas, not all games "inherit" the Desktop adjustments, so adjust the in-game gamma downwards a little bit to compensate for the LightBoost bleach effect. However, these settings are precisely adjusted to allow you to see all shades at Lagom Contrast and Lagom Black Level on all LightBoost monitors (assuming the monitor Contrast isn't set too high -- clipping point is about Contrast OSD menu 90% for the VG278H, and about Contrast OSD menu 50% for VG248QE.)


Is this the right panel to look at?


----------



## CYBER-SNIPA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> Any idea about the price on that monitor?


No more details or prices as yet. That monitor was only announced yesterday, so it may take a while for it to reach the stores etc.

Guru3D has this to say about it, much the same though really:-

http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/eizo_duravision_fdf2405w_monitor_has_240_hz_refresh_rate.html

Here's where I spotted the original press release:-

http://www.techpowerup.com/189783/eizo-releases-duravision-fdf2405w-monitor-with-240-hz-refresh-rate.html


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CYBER-SNIPA*
> 
> I wonder how this 240Hz Bad Boy would fare after the LightBoost effect was added???
> http://www.eizo.com/global/products/duravision/fdf2405w/index.html#tab01


It might *already be using a strobe backlight*, because it uses a lower brightness during motion-blur-reduction mode!

I've now blogged about this at Blur Busters. Going to contact Eizo for more information...


----------



## SightUp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> Is this the right panel to look at?


mdrejhon? Bump?


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> mdrejhon? Bump?


Yes it is.


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CYBER-SNIPA*
> 
> No more details or prices as yet. That monitor was only announced yesterday, so it may take a while for it to reach the stores etc.
> 
> Guru3D has this to say about it, much the same though really:-
> 
> http://www.guru3d.com/news_story/eizo_duravision_fdf2405w_monitor_has_240_hz_refresh_rate.html
> 
> Here's where I spotted the original press release:-
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/189783/eizo-releases-duravision-fdf2405w-monitor-with-240-hz-refresh-rate.html


I see, thanks for the info!


----------



## SightUp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> Yes it is.


So I applied these settings and it gave no viewable difference.


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> So I applied these settings and it gave no viewable difference.


You should see a difference in desktop colors, some games use their own gamma adjustment and colors so you probably won't see a difference there.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> So I applied these settings and it gave no viewable difference.


It may not work in all games, since they use picture settings separately from the Desktop.
You can view the Lagom patterns, both at the original settings and at the adjusted settings -- viewing pictures at Windows desktop should look more colorful during LightBoost with the recommended LightBoost gamma fix settings.

For fixing game color, adjust the game's own brightness/gamma setting, and often you will want to adjust this downwards a bit, unless you're trying to make enemies in dark places more visible (at the cost of washing out colors). Some people have also resorted to using utilities such as cpkeeper to try to force the desktop colors into the game, and I've heard of some use SweetFX, but that's overkill (and anticheat will likely prevent SweetFX).


----------



## wadefaxbi

good info, I would love to see the effect in person, but sadly I have an Asus vg236h which doesnt support lightboost2 to my knowlege.


----------



## Pheozero

Soooo, if I had to get a monitor for Lightboost right now from BenQ (I haven't really had a good track record with ASUS personally), it would be the XL2720T?


----------



## rick19011

Is there any 1440p monitors that use light boost? I know some of the korean monitors are 1440p 120hz but I don't think they use lightboost do they?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pheozero*
> 
> Soooo, if I had to get a monitor for Lightboost right now from BenQ (I haven't really had a good track record with ASUS personally), it would be the XL2720T?


CallSignVega certainly says that's the one to get, he's tried: XL2411T, VG248QE, VG278HE, XL2720T. The LightBoost colors on the 27" models are better (after calibration)


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rick19011*
> 
> Is there any 1440p monitors that use light boost? I know some of the korean monitors are 1440p 120hz but I don't think they use lightboost do they?


There are no 1440p LightBoost monitors. All of them are currently 1080p.


----------



## qwkslvr

I've recently moved into Win8 and applied the 2d lightboost hack. Unfortunately it doesn't stick. I leave my PC on overnight and discover it not using 2d lightboost in the morning







There are some instances when I leave my pc on idle for 10-15 min then my screen would black out for a few seconds then turn back on kicked out of 2d lightboost. Any ideas whats causing this? I had win7 64bit and it worked flawlessly.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qwkslvr*
> 
> I've recently moved into Win8 and applied the 2d lightboost hack. Unfortunately it doesn't stick. I leave my PC on overnight and discover it not using 2d lightboost in the morning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are some instances when I leave my pc on idle for 10-15 min then my screen would black out for a few seconds then turn back on kicked out of 2d lightboost. Any ideas whats causing this? I had win7 64bit and it worked flawlessly.


The login screen might not be using 2D LightBoost, e.g. when your screensaver kicks in, your computer changes resolution. Try disabling your screensaver completely and see what happens.

Are you using the even easier ToastyX Strobelight method? If so, then can also reenable LightBoost via Control+Alt+Plus. Does that work?


----------



## qwkslvr

The funny thing is, I didn't set any screen saver nor have any power reducing settings.

I'm not using the ToastyX Stobelight tool, I did the step-by-step manual way for win8. I do have the tool downloaded and once I ran it to re-enable lightboost when I get kicked off but no luck. I will try to run ToastyX overnight and see what happens.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qwkslvr*
> 
> The funny thing is, I didn't set any screen saver nor have any power reducing settings.
> 
> I'm not using the ToastyX Stobelight tool, I did the step-by-step manual way for win8. I do have the tool downloaded and once I ran it to re-enable lightboost when I get kicked off but no luck. I will try to run ToastyX overnight and see what happens.


Make sure you run strobelight-setup first, install the modes, before you run strobelight.


----------



## jerrolds

Can anyone point me to good Light Boost color profiles for the Benq XL240T? Colors looked way washed out, and on the cool side. Looking for something that warms it up a bit and maybe adds a bit of saturation or something.

It looks terrible against an IPS/PLS display - altho the clarity is nice.


----------



## shedokan

maybe adds a bit of saturation or something.

+1

How?


----------



## qwkslvr

yeah i ran strobelight-setup first before the application itself. I left my computer for a few hours today but when i came back I was kicked out again. This doesn't happen when I'm using my computer tho.. Anyone else have this issue with win8?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jerrolds*
> 
> Can anyone point me to good Light Boost color profiles for the Benq XL240T? Colors looked way washed out, and on the cool side. Looking for something that warms it up a bit and maybe adds a bit of saturation or something.


There are some recommended LightBoost color settings found at *LightBoost FAQ*, which can give you a jumpstart to a better LightBoost calibration.


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qwkslvr*
> 
> yeah i ran strobelight-setup first before the application itself. I left my computer for a few hours today but when i came back I was kicked out again. This doesn't happen when I'm using my computer tho.. Anyone else have this issue with win8?


What resolutions did you add in with strobelight-setup? And if you run strobelight again after you've been kicked out, does it reactivate in to light-boost?? When you say you've been kciked out.. WHats actually happening to make this change from lightboost to nonlightboost.. Is it a screensaver..? Hibernate? Sleep? Auto log out?


----------



## qwkslvr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> What resolutions did you add in with strobelight-setup? And if you run strobelight again after you've been kicked out, does it reactivate in to light-boost?? When you say you've been kciked out.. WHats actually happening to make this change from lightboost to nonlightboost.. Is it a screensaver..? Hibernate? Sleep? Auto log out?


I activated lightboost using the manual install for win8 according to the blurbusters site. I also used the ToastyX Strobelight Beta at one point to see if anything changes but it didn't help. What happens is, when I leave my win8 desktop on idle for 10-15 min, the screen goes black and i saw monitor power button go orange then after 2-3 seconds it powers up again (monitor power light turns blue) and my desktop goes back to non-lightboost (that's what I meant when I said I get kicked out of lightboost). It's the same 120hz but its non-lightboost.

My CRU is set to 1080p @ 120.004Hz that's it. All established resolutions on the left side are disabled and unchecked include extension block. Lightboost won't come back even if I were to run strobelight-setup again. I have to do a full reboot to get lightboost again. I have my power settings set to max performance and have every setting to prevent sleep/hybernate/auto log/suspend ... etc.

I really don't know what's causing this, perhaps a bug on win8? I'm using 320.49 drivers.


----------



## ToastyX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qwkslvr*
> 
> What happens is, when I leave my win8 desktop on idle for 10-15 min, the screen goes black and i saw monitor power button go orange then after 2-3 seconds it powers up again (monitor power light turns blue) and my desktop goes back to non-lightboost (that's what I meant when I said I get kicked out of lightboost). It's the same 120hz but its non-lightboost.


Try uninstalling GeForce Experience.


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qwkslvr*
> 
> I activated lightboost using the manual install for win8 according to the blurbusters site. I also used the ToastyX Strobelight Beta at one point to see if anything changes but it didn't help. What happens is, when I leave my win8 desktop on idle for 10-15 min, the screen goes black and i saw monitor power button go orange then after 2-3 seconds it powers up again (monitor power light turns blue) and my desktop goes back to non-lightboost (that's what I meant when I said I get kicked out of lightboost). It's the same 120hz but its non-lightboost.
> 
> My CRU is set to 1080p @ 120.004Hz that's it. All established resolutions on the left side are disabled and unchecked include extension block. Lightboost won't come back even if I were to run strobelight-setup again. I have to do a full reboot to get lightboost again. I have my power settings set to max performance and have every setting to prevent sleep/hybernate/auto log/suspend ... etc.
> 
> I really don't know what's causing this, perhaps a bug on win8? I'm using 320.49 drivers.


Ok. For your system to be able to be in a nonlightboosted 120hz there is some software somewhere that is letting your PC use it. Otherwise no matter what happens you shouldn't be able to use it.

Try this.. load up CRU. In the top pull down, delete every one of those profiles. You will then need to reboot. What this is doing is basically deleting any profiles that have been added over your PCs usage and then rebooting is reinstalling stock default profiles.. Now load up strobelight-setup.exe. In the first pull down you should see only one profile. This just confirms that all the others are gone which eliminates and crossed wires. . For refresh rates I've chosen 120hz strobed, 100hz strobed and 60hz nonlightboosted.. What this means for me is that your PC will only use 120hz but it will always be lightboosted.. Maybe now when your PC does what its doing it might only know to come back into 120hz so it can only be a lightboosted 120hz.. Then if for any reason you need nonlightboost you have the 60hz option.

Hope it helps..


----------



## jerrolds

Toastys Strobelight app worked for me in Windows 8 AND a Radeon card.

When it acted funky (because i kept disconnecting the monitor) - resetting the displays and rebooting and starting the whole process again made it a lot better. It wasnt trying to initialize displays everytime my system booted.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ToastyX*
> 
> Try uninstalling GeForce Experience.


+1
Try this too, as there was some wonky user reports with this. Not always, but...

Also if you run into problems, try right clicking on Strobelight and selecting "Reinitialize Displays". See if that helps you get back to LightBoost.


----------



## qwkslvr

I have my CRU set to only have one profile (ACI27F8 - VG248) with no established resolutions checked and only have one detailed resolutions at 1080p @ 120.004Hz. Is it optional to add 100Hz and 60Hz because I have no need for them. (Include extension block also unchecked & nothing listed on standard resolutions).

Toastys Strobelight app definitely works. I can turn off strobe and on but when I get kicked off, I can't go back to strobe (even using Reinitialize Displays). This happens after i go on long periods of idle. The only solution I have is to do a complete reboot of my PC then I'm back on lightboost again.

I never had GeForce Experience installed (ever).


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> Ok. For your system to be able to be in a nonlightboosted 120hz there is some software somewhere that is letting your PC use it. Otherwise no matter what happens you shouldn't be able to use it.
> 
> Try this.. load up CRU. In the top pull down, delete every one of those profiles. You will then need to reboot. What this is doing is basically deleting any profiles that have been added over your PCs usage and then rebooting is reinstalling stock default profiles.. Now load up strobelight-setup.exe. In the first pull down you should see only one profile. This just confirms that all the others are gone which eliminates and crossed wires. . For refresh rates I've chosen 120hz strobed, 100hz strobed and 60hz nonlightboosted.. What this means for me is that your PC will only use 120hz but it will always be lightboosted.. Maybe now when your PC does what its doing it might only know to come back into 120hz so it can only be a lightboosted 120hz.. Then if for any reason you need nonlightboost you have the 60hz option.
> 
> Hope it helps..


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qwkslvr*
> 
> I have my CRU set to only have one profile (ACI27F8 - VG248) with no established resolutions checked and only have one detailed resolutions at 1080p @ 120.004Hz. Is it optional to add 100Hz and 60Hz because I have no need for them. (Include extension block also unchecked & nothing listed on standard resolutions).
> 
> Toastys Strobelight app definitely works. I can turn off strobe and on but when I get kicked off, I can't go back to strobe (even using Reinitialize Displays). This happens after i go on long periods of idle. The only solution I have is to do a complete reboot of my PC then I'm back on lightboost again.
> 
> I never had GeForce Experience installed (ever).


Please try what I said. And never use CRU again.. There is no need.. You're only making it harder on yourself by trying to get the job done with two different programs.. I use windows 8 64bit and with the steps I told you I have no problems at all.

The only reason I use 60hz non strobed is if for any reason I need to play with my graphics settings, I like to do it in non strobed mode and then when I'm done I just switch back to 120hz which I know is strobed and strobed only..

Having the best experience with no motion blur you really want to run you games at 1:1 resolutions. What I mean by that is, If BF3 only gets 104FPS max then run it at 100hz lightboost for 0 motion blur. If you use 120hz and are only getting 104fps you will get slight ghosting... Not a lot, but its not as perfect as syncing the refresh rate to the fps.. So I have 120 and 100 for various games.. Now my PC will never use 100 or 120hz refresh rates that AREN'T ligtboosted because I haven't told the PC that there is such a frequency to use.. It only knows boosted 120 and 100... ..

*edit, Oh I just noticed you said you have only one profile the ACI27F8 - VG248. Are you using this because you followed the CRU steps and injected it yourself or is it the profile that windows is choosing for you? If you go into your control panel. Select monitors. Right click on your monitor and select properties. select details. in the property pulldown down select Hardware IDs.. What does that value say?


----------



## qwkslvr

I didn't bother using 100/110 Hz of lightboost because I know my sli 4gb 680s can do the job. If not, I can always tweak settings to hit 120fps average. Also, 120hz lightboost look best & have the least input lag so I'll stick to that. I applied lightboost hack the manual way & not using the tool. I didn't use ToastyX's Strobelight until recently so I may experiment if it helps me not get kicked off lightboost. I have no trouble enabling lightboost hack.

Yes I followed the CRU steps and injected the profile. Windows did not choose this for me. I don't own an emitter. The Hardware ID is different from CRU. CRU displays ACI27F8 but hardware ID says ACI24E1.


----------



## pack66

Is there a faq I can read up on Lightboost and monitors?


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pack66*
> 
> Is there a faq I can read up on Lightboost and monitors?


http://www.blurbusters.com/


----------



## SightUp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> All of them. All LightBoost monitors tend to benefit a lot. LightBoost mode causes nVidia to insert an artificial gamma bump (above and beyond what the hardware is doing), so these adjustments "undoes" the LightBoost gamma bleaching. It does darken LightBoost a bit, but the color saturation comes back.
> 
> *LightBoost Gamma Fix*
> nVidia Control Panel Desktop Brightness = 52%
> nVidia Control Panel Desktop Color = 45%
> nVidia Control Panel Desktop Gamma = 0.70
> 
> --or--
> 
> *LightBoost Gamma Fix Settings (LIGHTER / MILD VERSION)*
> nVidia Control Panel Desktop Brightness = 50%
> nVidia Control Panel Desktop Color = 47%
> nVidia Control Panel Desktop Gamma = 0.85
> 
> Alas, not all games "inherit" the Desktop adjustments, so adjust the in-game gamma downwards a little bit to compensate for the LightBoost bleach effect. However, these settings are precisely adjusted to allow you to see all shades at Lagom Contrast and Lagom Black Level on all LightBoost monitors (assuming the monitor Contrast isn't set too high -- clipping point is about Contrast OSD menu 90% for the VG278H, and about Contrast OSD menu 50% for VG248QE.)


For the contrast on my monitor, the settings on the actual monitor, not the Nvidia Control Panel, on the BenQ XL2420T, what should those settings be set to?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> For the contrast on my monitor, the settings on the actual monitor, not the Nvidia Control Panel, on the BenQ XL2420T, what should those settings be set to?


Just to clarify, I want to correct some minor errors in my old posts. It actually means:

*LightBoost Gamma Fix*
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Brightness = 52%
nVidia Control Panel Desktop *Contrast* = 45%
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Gamma = 0.70

--or--

*LightBoost Gamma Fix Settings (LIGHTER / MILD VERSION)*
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Brightness = 50%
nVidia Control Panel Desktop *Contrast* = 47%
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Gamma = 0.85

....For the monitor's Contrast, adjust to the point where you see all shades in *Lagom Contrast* without clipping, and without ugly tints (e.g. blue tints, pink tints, reddish tints). Usually, this is a monitor OSD contrast of about 45% on VG248QE's and about 90% on VG278H's.


----------



## daav1d

I´m thinking of maybe getting one of these 144Hz to run lightboost on. Only play CS:GO and a little bit LoL. Can you use lightboost and play with 1024x768 etc.? I don´t know if I want the 24 or the 27. If i go with the 27 I just put it further back on the table. I´m on a 22 now and I have it almost as close as I can, just so when playing I can rest my wrist on the edge of the table and the monitor just behind the keyboard. About the colors, right now I´m on a Syncmaster 2233rz. I´ve just set brightness on the screen to 100 and digital vibrance to max (100?) in Nvidia control panel. I prefer the black parts of the map to be more gray but otherwise colorful, easier to spot enemies. Which monitor would suit me best? ASUS 24" VG248QE or ASUS 27" VG278HE? BenQ 24'' XL2411T are also available but it´s so god damn ugly compared to ASUS imo. If it´s equal i prefer ASUS, but performance is more important so if it´s better i buy that.


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> I´m thinking of maybe getting one of these 144Hz to run lightboost on. Only play CS:GO and a little bit LoL. Can you use lightboost and play with 1024x768 etc.? I don´t know if I want the 24 or the 27. If i go with the 27 I just put it further back on the table. I´m on a 22 now and I have it almost as close as I can, just so when playing I can rest my wrist on the edge of the table and the monitor just behind the keyboard. About the colors, right now I´m on a Syncmaster 2233rz. I´ve just set brightness on the screen to 100 and digital vibrance to max (100?) in Nvidia control panel. I prefer the black parts of the map to be more gray but otherwise colorful, easier to spot enemies. Which monitor would suit me best? ASUS 24" VG248QE or ASUS 27" VG278HE? BenQ 24'' XL2411T are also available but it´s so god damn ugly compared to ASUS imo. If it´s equal i prefer ASUS, but performance is more important so if it´s better i buy that.


Get a 24" because larger screens are not as good for gaming in general (you want the smaller view size so you can focus on more of the scene at any time, and you want what you are used to - moving a big monitor back is nowhere near the same experience as having a smaller monitor closer to you if you are a gamer)

Secondly the performance of the XL2411T and the VG248QE are exactly the same, apart from a few features that probably won't matter to you: Asus has it's little crosshair thing, BenQ has some light enhancement thing (which does what you say, it makes black areas appear grey and easy to spot enemies, but to be honest you won't need it and you can't activate it during lightboost anyway).

Lightboost works fine on any resolution.

Don't worry about colours, there's no point the differences can't be felt when competitive gaming.

I'd get the cheaper out of XL2411T or VG248QE, but if you want to get the one that looks nicer to you then go for that. Think of them as the same monitor.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> Get a 24" because larger screens are not as good for gaming in general (you want the smaller view size so you can focus on more of the scene at any time, and you want what you are used to - moving a big monitor back is nowhere near the same experience as having a smaller monitor closer to you if you are a gamer)
> 
> Secondly the performance of the XL2411T and the VG248QE are exactly the same, apart from a few features that probably won't matter to you: Asus has it's little crosshair thing, BenQ has some light enhancement thing (which does what you say, it makes black areas appear grey and easy to spot enemies, but to be honest you won't need it and you can't activate it during lightboost anyway).
> 
> Lightboost works fine on any resolution.
> 
> Don't worry about colours, there's no point the differences can't be felt when competitive gaming.
> 
> I'd get the cheaper out of XL2411T or VG248QE, but if you want to get the one that looks nicer to you then go for that. Think of them as the same monitor.


What is the "crosshair thing"? It´s about 76 $ difference. Benq cheaper but out of stock on all stores here.


----------



## Draygonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> What is the "crosshair thing"? It´s about 76 $ difference. Benq cheaper but out of stock on all stores here.


Push a button to place a crosshair in the center of the screen.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzatm*
> 
> I'd get the cheaper out of XL2411T or VG248QE, but if you want to get the one that looks nicer to you then go for that. Think of them as the same monitor.


Also, if you want PWM-free and stay 24", one can also additionally consider the BENQ XL2420T*E*. Costs more, but provides you with PWM-free operation, if eyestrain is an issue.

Also, if you do lots of other things other than games, then keep in mind that the LightBoost image quality on the 27" models is better than the 24".
But it would not matter when playing competitively and not caring about colors; the VG248QE is the budget priced 120Hz monitor.

LightBoost works fine at any resolution via GPU scaling.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Draygonn*
> 
> Push a button to place a crosshair in the center of the screen.


Haha never seen that, AWP here i come








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Also, if you want PWM-free and stay 24", one can also additionally consider the BENQ XL2420T*E*. Costs more, but provides you with PWM-free operation, if eyestrain is an issue.
> 
> Also, if you do lots of other things other than games, then keep in mind that the LightBoost image quality on the 27" models is better than the 24".
> But it would not matter when playing competitively and not caring about colors; the VG248QE is the budget priced 120Hz monitor.
> 
> LightBoost works fine at any resolution via GPU scaling.


I don´t know what PWM is hehe. Is it faster with PWM-free? Could only find XL2411T and XL2420T here. Not the XL2420T*E*.


----------



## jerrolds

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Haha never seen that, AWP here i come
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don´t know what PWM is hehe. Is it faster with PWM-free? Could only find XL2411T and XL2420T here. Not the XL2420T*E*.


PWM is how most displays control brightness - but adjusting the frequency the LED backlit is on, higher frequency = brighter picture. On low brightness the frequency is so low that it can irritate some users (while most cant really tell). Most of the time setting brightness via OSD to 100% keeps backlit to always on, or no pulsing.

TE does not use PWM, which is good - but it only works outside of lightboosted mode


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jerrolds*
> 
> PWM is how most displays control brightness - but adjusting the frequency the LED backlit is on, higher frequency = brighter picture. On low brightness the frequency is so low that it can irritate some users (while most cant really tell). Most of the time setting brightness via OSD to 100% keeps backlit to always on, or no pulsing.
> 
> TE does not use PWM, which is good - but it only works outside of lightboosted mode


Don´t need to worry about PWM then, was planning to use lightboost.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Also, if you want PWM-free and stay 24", one can also additionally consider the BENQ XL2420T*E*. Costs more, but provides you with PWM-free operation, if eyestrain is an issue.
> 
> Also, if you do lots of other things other than games, then keep in mind that the LightBoost image quality on the 27" models is better than the 24".
> But it would not matter when playing competitively and not caring about colors; the VG248QE is the budget priced 120Hz monitor.
> 
> LightBoost works fine at any resolution via GPU scaling.


Do I have to add a non lightboost resolution? I don´t see when I would use that since lightboost works fine in windows to?


----------



## jerrolds

I would have a non-lightboosted version just so the strobing effect isnt so harsh, when in 2D. Its not like 120/144hz 2ms is unusable.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Do I have to add a non lightboost resolution? I don´t see when I would use that since lightboost works fine in windows to?


I keep LightBoost enabled 24/7, it's a matter of personal preference.
Some people like it all the time, some people only want it for games.
Also depends on how motion-blur-sensitive you are.

For users who want to LightBoost 24/7, it's worth leaning towards the better-color-quality LightBoost such as VG278H.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> I keep LightBoost enabled 24/7, it's a matter of personal preference.
> Some people like it all the time, some people only want it for games.
> Also depends on how motion-blur-sensitive you are.
> 
> For users who want to LightBoost 24/7, it's worth leaning towards the better-color-quality LightBoost such as VG278H.


I don´t do much other things than gaming on my computer ^^


----------



## hamzatm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> What is the "crosshair thing"? It´s about 76 $ difference. Benq cheaper but out of stock on all stores here.


The price is messed up don't go by it. In the EU the BenQ is cheaper than the Asus (which is overpriced) whereas in the US the BenQ isn't even available.

At least that was how it used to be, I haven't been in the monitor market for a while.


----------



## Geran

Would the ASUS VG27AH monitor be a candidate for LightBoost???


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Geran*
> 
> Would the ASUS VG27AH monitor be a candidate for LightBoost???


No. It is a 60Hz monitor using passive 3D technology (LGs FPR - Film-type Patterned ******er). This relies on polarised light, the backlight acts exactly as it does on any other 60Hz LCD on this model. There is no strobing functionality.


----------



## Aesthethc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Draygonn*
> 
> Push a button to place a crosshair in the center of the screen.


Wait..... how do you do this? O_O


----------



## Draygonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aesthethc*
> 
> Wait..... how do you do this? O_O


It has a button for gaming functions. Shown @3:30


----------



## Aesthethc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Draygonn*
> 
> It has a button for gaming functions. Shown @3:30


Oh. i guess the HE doesnt have that ):


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aesthethc*
> 
> Oh. i guess the HE doesnt have that ):


Correct. They are 'GamePlus' features that were first seen on the VG248QE (so more recently than the VG278HE) and now seen on some other models including the VG278HR.


----------



## Ka0sX

hey guys i have had the benq xl2411t for a few weeks now i tried the Blur Busters UFO Motion and it was working great i then reformatted my pc and now when i run it its locked at 60hz it will not display 120hz

Light boost is enabled i can access thru the OSD

Using Firefox 25.0b1

Would anyone have any ideas as to why this is happening? I have installed OPERA aswell and i get alot of stutter warnings

Thanks


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ka0sX*
> 
> hey guys i have had the benq xl2411t for a few weeks now i tried the Blur Busters UFO Motion and it was working great i then reformatted my pc and now when i run it its locked at 60hz it will not display 120hz


Most of the time, such TestUFO performance degradation is caused by graphics drivers. What's the version of your graphics drivers? Try upgrading/downgrading.

Also check out www.testufo.com/browser.html to make sure the pre-requisites are met.


----------



## kevindd992002

Every time I shutdown my computer and turn it back on, the Lightboost brightness settings reset to 100%. I'm using ToastyX Strobelight Beta 2 utility to turn on the Lightboost of my monitor. Is this normal behavior and is there a workaround to this?

Please help. Thanks.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Every time I shutdown my computer and turn it back on, the Lightboost brightness settings reset to 100%. I'm using ToastyX Strobelight Beta 2 utility to turn on the Lightboost of my monitor. Is this normal behavior and is there a workaround to this?
> 
> Please help. Thanks.


I'm also using ToastyX Strobelight Beta 2 on my VG248QE and it stays at [email protected]%.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> I'm also using ToastyX Strobelight Beta 2 on my VG248QE and it stays at [email protected]%.


Now that's weird. What am I doing wrong then? If I restart my system, it stays at my desired setting but if I shutdown and turn it back on then it goes back to the default 100%.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Now that's weird. What am I doing wrong then? If I restart my system, it stays at my desired setting but if I shutdown and turn it back on then it goes back to the default 100%.


I haven't done anything else than installation. Just got my monitor last week. Have you checked if there's some settings you can change?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> I haven't done anything else than installation. Just got my monitor last week. Have you checked if there's some settings you can change?


I did check but that's all there is. Everything is working fine, it's just that it doesn't retain that LB brightness settings. I hope somebody can give more input here.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> I did check but that's all there is. Everything is working fine, it's just that it doesn't retain that LB brightness settings. I hope somebody can give more input here.


Does it stay in lightboost? Just not right brightness?


----------



## linkin93

I'm so glad I bought an S23A750D - No lightboost crap/bugs for me!









I will keep this monitor until my last days.


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93*
> 
> I'm so glad I bought an S23A750D - No lightboost crap/bugs for me!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will keep this monitor until my last days.


Hopefully the monitor's last days will come before yours.


----------



## linkin93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *linkin93*
> 
> I'm so glad I bought an S23A750D - No lightboost crap/bugs for me!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will keep this monitor until my last days.
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully the monitor's last days will come before yours.
Click to expand...

Depends how many times the displayport drops out. God I need a new DP cable... I've tried 3 already.


----------



## tangjigede

yes,one other seems to have solved the problem. Let's see what exactly the fix seems to it







.


----------



## DirtyTrickster

Anyone see problems like this? I posted a separate thread, but I thought I'd post it here too.

So I recently downloaded the toatsyX strobelight application to enable/disable the lightboost on my Asus VG278H monitor.

After I upgraded my browsers, I could clearly see the difference looking at their test pages (UFO, map etc.)

The problems I am having occur when playing BF3.

Problem 1.
When I die, I get a quick black screen.
This video shows me dying. You can see the black screen when I hit the ground.





Problem 2 and 3.
If strobe is enabled and I try to disable it in game (ctrl+alt+-) I have to (alt + tab) to desktop then click on the game to keep playing. If not, it's a permanent black screen.
Once I'm back in the game everything seems fine until I die. Once I die, after a long delay the strobe turns back on .

This video starts with light boost on. (LED on top of monitor)
When I turn it off, it goes completly black and I have to alt tab back into the game (LED OFF)
When I die, long black screen, then LED turns back on






Problem 4.
I just noticed this last night. For some reason my audio and mouse sensitivity settings don't stay saved in game. I don't think this has anything to do with toastyx, I think it's Origin's cloud service. Anyway, whenever I go change it I'll hit "back" then it asks if I want to save settings. I click "yes." After that the screen goes black and my 3D LED turns off, disabling the lightboost, and it asks me if I want to keep the changes to my display settings. I didn't do anything in my display settings in game. I click "no" and the LED turns back on, enabling lightboost, and I click "resume" and continue playing.

Any insight on why these problems are occurring?

Sorry for the lousy videos.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DirtyTrickster*
> 
> When I die, I get a quick black screen.
> This video shows me dying. You can see the black screen when I hit the ground.


Has this ever happened without LightBoost, and without ToastyX Strobelight?
If it only happens with Strobelight, have you posted on the ToastyX Strobelight creator's site (monitortests.com support forum) in the Strobelight thread?
Quote:


> Problem 2 and 3.
> If strobe is enabled and I try to disable it in game (ctrl+alt+-) I have to (alt + tab) to desktop then click on the game to keep playing. If not, it's a permanent black screen.
> Once I'm back in the game everything seems fine until I die. Once I die, after a long delay the strobe turns back on .


Generally, you're not supposed to turn on/off LightBoost while in the middle of a game. You need to exit the game before switching modes, and stay in the mode while playing.

If your game (BF3) is automatically switching graphics modes everytime you die, this could be a problem. Try re-running strobelight-setup and installing only "120Hz strobed" (no other modes). Reboot. Try BF3. Does the black screens stop happening? If they stop happening, that confirms that BF3 is trying to do automatic graphics mode switches everytime you die, and the two different "120Hz" modes are potentially interfering with each other.

(To turn off LightBoost, re-re-run strobelight setup and reinstall a non-strobed mode. Or in an emergency, just simply unplug your monitor for 5 seconds to turn off LightBoost. The unplug method works in disabling LightBoost even while in the middle of a videogame, but I wouldn't recommend this practice, except as a debugging / troubleshooting technique)


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93*
> 
> I'm so glad I bought an S23A750D - No lightboost crap/bugs for me!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will keep this monitor until my last days.


Most people aren't having LightBoost problems, thanks to ToastyX Strobelight. Many thousands have downloaded that utility, and only few are complaining with posts -- so I think the problems-to-happy users ratio is much better today. But there are also a lot more LightBoost users today than six months ago (thanks to the LightBoost 2D publicity this year)


----------



## socketus

I'm happy and I know it !!

about DirtyTrickster's bf3 monitor black screen when you die problem - that sounds a lot like the problem in bf3 that is easily fixed by selecting your monitor in the game's options. Sounds stupid, but somehow the game has lost the sense of your monitor being the selected one. Made my black screens disappear, but not in-game deaths ;(


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Does it stay in lightboost? Just not right brightness?


It does stay in lightboost, just not retaining the right brightness.

@mdrjhon, do you have any idea with this?


----------



## HellionGR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DirtyTrickster*
> 
> Anyone see problems like this? I posted a separate thread, but I thought I'd post it here too.
> 
> So I recently downloaded the toatsyX strobelight application to enable/disable the lightboost on my Asus VG278H monitor.
> 
> After I upgraded my browsers, I could clearly see the difference looking at their test pages (UFO, map etc.)
> 
> The problems I am having occur when playing BF3.
> 
> Problem 1.
> When I die, I get a quick black screen.
> This video shows me dying. You can see the black screen when I hit the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simple solution happens to me aswell.
> Found it accidentaly.Whenever you enter the game go to options set to 120.xx or 119.xx hz the slider it would be at 144hz dunno why but defaults to that.No more annoying black screen.


----------



## HellionGR

Οk has anyone here with *lightboost in surround mode* installed the new 341.40 beta driver for Battlefields?
I cant get it to work with Lightboost on at surround mode no matter what, tried about 3 hours everything.
Every monitor works fine in mirror mode+lightboost but when i set surround it installs a new shell 3x1 Surround or sthing.If i tweak that with CRU or strobelight mode nothing happens.
Stays in non lightboost.


----------



## kevindd992002

mdrejhon, what is the most recommended nvidia control panel color settings for the XL2420TX?


----------



## kevindd992002

Also, can anyone with the BenQ XL2420TX using ToastyX's Beta2 Strobelight utility confirm if the LB brightness settings resets to its initial value when it is powered off or it goes into power saving mode regardless of the setting set by the utility?

Thanks.


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DirtyTrickster*
> 
> Problem 1.
> When I die, I get a quick black screen.
> This video shows me dying. You can see the black screen when I hit the ground.


As socketus mentions, this is a BF3 bug. It happened to me when I enabled Lightboost, too, but loads of other people have it on the interwebs, too. I bet it flickers black when you press N, too, right?

As socketus also mentions, haha, the fix is to hit "Apply Fullscreen Resolution" in the video options. Or just switch to a different res and back to your main one. It's all fixed! Sometimes, it happens again, but this fix works 100% of the time.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *socketus*
> 
> I'm happy and I know it !!
> 
> about DirtyTrickster's bf3 monitor black screen when you die problem - that sounds a lot like the problem in bf3 that is easily fixed by selecting your monitor in the game's options. Sounds stupid, but somehow the game has lost the sense of your monitor being the selected one. Made my black screens disappear, but not in-game deaths ;(


Yup. This is it!







Haha, yeah...I really thought it might help my K/D.

----

BTW, if anyone wants to try the BF4 Beta, don't. LOL, even with my OC'd i5-4670K and OC'd GTX 770, I can't break 100FPS even on low @ 1280 x 720. Hopefully, drivers and game improvements will fix it by release time, but, currently, it's pretty rough.

---

Anyways, I got Lightboost a few weeks ago. It's CHANGED the way I game. I just ran past people, swivel back really quick (no motion blur!), and pop in the face with a shotgun. It's almost like cheating, haha.









Question 1: sometimes, I "test" motion blur by trying to see focus on my mouse pointer as I move it horizontally. Lightboost helps with that, but I still can't focus perfectly on it. It just becomes a bit of blur, even if I move it preeeeety slowly. It is a 125Hz mouse, though: can _anybody_ do this? Is this not feasible with current hardware?

Question 2: the text scrolling at testufo.com is GREAT. I can read it so perfectly. Is there a way to get this in regular browsing? I try it and it's quite a bit blurrier, particularly on Firefox 24. Chrome is better, so maybe it is just Firefox.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikjadoon*
> 
> Anyways, I got Lightboost a few weeks ago. It's CHANGED the way I game. I just ran past people, swivel back really quick (no motion blur!), and pop in the face with a shotgun. It's almost like cheating, haha.


It's just like gaming back in the CRT days, when motion blur didn't interfere with FPS gaming. Circle strafing like that becomes easy again with LightBoost.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikjadoon*
> 
> Question 2: the text scrolling at testufo.com is GREAT. I can read it so perfectly. Is there a way to get this in regular browsing? I try it and it's quite a bit blurrier, particularly on Firefox 24. Chrome is better, so maybe it is just Firefox.


1. Chrome: Chromium Smooth Scroller Extension, with mousewheel.
2. Internet Explorer has smooth scrolling using arrow keys. but IE doesn't do 120fps on TestUFO.
3. FireFox scrolling is still too stuttery. Still improving.

Personally, I just use *Chromium Smooth Scroller* with Google Chrome, so I can read while scrolling. I don't need to stop scrolling on my LightBoost LCD to read text!


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> mdrejhon, what is the most recommended nvidia control panel color settings for the XL2420TX?


All monitors have different calibrations, so I'm not sure what's the "perfect" calibration is. However, the LightBoost FAQ does provide settings to "undo" the LightBoost gamma bleaching.

nVidia Control Panel Desktop Brightness = 52%
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Contrast = 45%
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Gamma = 0.70

This will bring more of the colors back, after being washed-out by LightBoost. There are also more picture calibration tips in the *LightBoost FAQ*, for improving LightBoost image quality above and beyond this, but it can get challenging since games often do not honor the Control Panel settings.


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> It's just like gaming back in the CRT days, when motion blur didn't interfere with FPS gaming. Circle strafing like that becomes easy again with LightBoost.
> 1. Chrome: Chromium Smooth Scroller Extension, with mousewheel.
> 2. Internet Explorer has smooth scrolling using arrow keys. but IE doesn't do 120fps on TestUFO.
> 3. FireFox scrolling is still too stuttery. Still improving.
> 
> Personally, I just use *Chromium Smooth Scroller* with Google Chrome, so I can read while scrolling. I don't need to stop scrolling on my LightBoost LCD to read text!


Got it. Shucks, Chrome is missing some extensions, but maybe I should make the jump!


----------



## kevindd992002

Can anybody with the XL2420T/TX confirm if, when using ToastyX's Beta2 Strobelight utility, the LB brightness setting does not retain when you turn off the screen or when it goes into power saving mode? Please help me on this. Thanks.


----------



## mdrejhon

Some monitors don't remember the brightness setting.

Can you adjust the "LightBoost" setting via the monitor's menus and see if it saves this way? (Adjusting this on BENQ can be a bit confusing: You may have to scroll downwards in the Picture Adjustments list in the monitor onscreen menus, in the same list as Brightness and Contrast, in order to reveal the LightBoost adjustment setting via the monitor menus on a BENQ monitor)


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Some monitors don't remember the brightness setting.
> 
> Can you adjust the "LightBoost" setting via the monitor's menus and see if it saves this way? (Adjusting this on BENQ can be a bit confusing: You may have to scroll downwards in the Picture Adjustments list in the monitor onscreen menus, in the same list as Brightness and Contrast, in order to reveal the LightBoost adjustment setting via the monitor menus on a BENQ monitor)


It does save it when I manually do it in the OSD menu of my XL2420TX. But why is this happening? ToastyX told me that adjusting the LB brightness through software and by manually adjusting it is basically the same and the monitor SHOULD remember it.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> It does save it when I manually do it in the OSD menu of my XL2420TX. But why is this happening? ToastyX told me that adjusting the LB brightness through software and by manually adjusting it is basically the same and the monitor SHOULD remember it.


My monitor does remember it.

However, certain monitor models has bugs with remembering picture adjustments transmitted over the DDC channel on the DVI cable (using the VESA Monitor Control Command Set). Your monitor might be one of these.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> My monitor does remember it.
> 
> However, certain monitor models has bugs with remembering picture adjustments transmitted over the DDC channel on the DVI cable (using the VESA Monitor Control Command Set). Your monitor might be one of these.


Oh ok. Which other monitors experience this?


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HellionGR*
> 
> Οk has anyone here with *lightboost in surround mode* installed the new 341.40 beta driver for Battlefields?
> I cant get it to work with Lightboost on at surround mode no matter what, tried about 3 hours everything.
> Every monitor works fine in mirror mode+lightboost but when i set surround it installs a new shell 3x1 Surround or sthing.If i tweak that with CRU or strobelight mode nothing happens.
> Stays in non lightboost.


Im having this problem too. With the new nvidia beta drivers strobelightbeta works in activate all displays mode, but when you change to span displays in surround, it seems nvidia have changed the way it performs this and has made strobelightbeta broken..In CRU the new display name is called NVS10DE - NV 1x3. In Strobelightbeta the new display name in is NV 1x3 (1 active)*. So 1 monitor with save changes applied. But lightboost will not activate.. I have two VG278HEs and one VG278HR.,

*edit. It appears it will go into lightboost if you select Maximize 3d Performance also..


----------



## HellionGR

Where do you set maximize 3d performance?


----------



## socketus

In the ncp - nvidia control panel


----------



## HellionGR

Do you mean in manage 3d settings Power management mode adaptive>prefer maximum performance?|


----------



## socketus

nope, one line below, Configure SLI, Surround, PhysX


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *socketus*
> 
> nope, one line below, Configure SLI, Surround, PhysX


Yep, What Socketus said..


----------



## Geran

Is there a huge difference between the ASUS VG248QE & BenQ XL2420TE, except for price?

I know that Vega recommends the BenQ XL2720T but the price isn't something I want to pay for my new sim racing rig.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Geran*
> 
> Is there a huge difference between the ASUS VG248QE & BenQ XL2420TE, except for price?


Color-quality wise, not really.
Less eyestrain, definitely. (If you're PWM-sensitive)
Quote:


> I know that Vega recommends the BenQ XL2720T but the price isn't something I want to pay for my new sim racing rig.


Vega also recommend the VG278HE which can be cheaper sometimes. He found it equivalent but got the XL2720T because it was easier to mount as portrait.


----------



## mdrejhon

Toms Hardware *review* of VG248QE is up. However, they don't seem to believe in LightBoost though, according to forum board comments:
Quote:


> _Christian Eberle posted on TomsHardware:_
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, you didn't test using lightboost in 2D for better motion clarity?
> 
> 
> 
> Frankly, there was no need to improve motion clarity because we didn't see any motion blur at all. The super-fast screen draw time means you don't have to flash the backlight (thereby reducing light output) to combat this issue. Even less-responsive panels these days don't exhibit much motion blur.
> 
> -Christian
Click to expand...

You LightBoost users might want to *followup to the TomsHardware reviewer's post* in the TomsHardware Comments section. Tell him you saw a difference with LightBoost.


----------



## Geran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Color-quality wise, not really.
> Less eyestrain, definitely. (If you're PWM-sensitive)
> Vega also recommend the VG278HE which can be cheaper sometimes. He found it equivalent but got the XL2720T because it was easier to mount as portrait.


Well I would prefer something that provided less eyestrain since I would be looking at three of them for anywhere between 45mins-2hrs at any given time. Knowing this now, which one would provide less eyestrain?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Geran*
> 
> Well I would prefer something that provided less eyestrain since I would be looking at three of them for anywhere between 45mins-2hrs at any given time. Knowing this now, which one would provide less eyestrain?


Among the monitors in *list of 120Hz monitors*, these monitors do not use PWM for dimming:

BENQ XL2420TE in USA
BENQ XL2420T Rev 2.0 in Europe (manufactured since July)


----------



## kevindd992002

@mdrejhon, did you read my last post in this thread?


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> Im having this problem too. With the new nvidia beta drivers strobelightbeta works in activate all displays mode, but when you change to span displays in surround, it seems nvidia have changed the way it performs this and has made strobelightbeta broken..In CRU the new display name is called NVS10DE - NV 1x3. In Strobelightbeta the new display name in is NV 1x3 (1 active)*. So 1 monitor with save changes applied. But lightboost will not activate.. I have two VG278HEs and one VG278HR.,
> 
> *edit. It appears it will go into lightboost if you select Maximize 3d Performance also..


After a few days of trying off and on I have come to a comfortable conclusion that strobelight beta 2 will not work for me with the latest nvidia beta driver version 331.40. mdrejhon should I bring this to your attention? Could it be just that it will not work with this current beta release because it is a version that was flung out to the public on a knee jerk reaction for the release of BF4? And so possibly strobelight beta 2 should work with the next world release of nvidia drivers? I sure hope so.. The difference between the two driver versions is about 30% increase in FPS for myself.. Unfortunately playing in lightboost mode doesn't compare to a more fluid non-lightboost mode.. I hope it can work in the future. I have faith.. I bought these monitors knowing this is a good thing, and have already given a donation. I will gladly give again if this can be back up and working.. Thanks. Steve


----------



## Fgcgt817

lightboost is working for me with the latest beta driver (331.40)

did u rerun strobelight-setup und resettet your monitor and reinstalled it? this is important if you change your driver. every time i change my display driver i have to reset und reinstall stoblight-setup, otherwise it doesnt work.


----------



## Gabkicks

will lightboost work with r9 290x? I probably won't but i was thinking of maybe selling my 780 and getting an r9 290x heh.

Ironmaiden, lightboost works for me with latest beta drivers. I followed toasty's instructions and used strobelight.exe. i have to just set games to match the same hz as my lightboost and it works fine.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> After a few days of trying off and on I have come to a comfortable conclusion that strobelight beta 2 will not work for me with the latest nvidia beta driver version 331.40. mdrejhon should I bring this to your attention?


Wow. OK, there's a different, older method of enabling LightBoost via a monitor .INF method that I will reactivate (ASUS VG278H EDID override). This is the oldest, most complicated LightBoost HOWTO, but I will republish it somewhere in a hidden page, for unlucky people who are stymied by nVidia drivers.

Meanwhile, bring that to ToastyX's attention immediately at monitortests.com


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Oh ok. Which other monitors experience this?


Your model, and one other model I forgot (But it was another older BENQ too)


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Wow. OK, there's a different, older method of enabling LightBoost via a monitor .INF method that I will reactivate (ASUS VG278H EDID override). This is the oldest, most complicated LightBoost HOWTO, but I will republish it somewhere in a hidden page, for unlucky people who are stymied by nVidia drivers.
> 
> Meanwhile, bring that to ToastyX's attention immediately at monitortests.com


That would be awesome mdrejhon. Thank you..

And for you lads that have it working.. Im guessing you have it working on a single monitor and not triple surround.. lightboost will work in any mode BUT triple monitor surround. Something in the way nvidia has changed the way it performs its spanning that has strobelightbeta stumped..

*Edit: I have PMed ToastyX about the issue and he says that "its a nvidia problem that they need to fix." And in saying that I feel that it might be just a problem for this beta version. It shouldn't be to long before another version is released.


----------



## Shogon

Wanting to let you know mdrejhon that the latest beta's did something weird to Surround for me as well, I rolled back so hopefully on Nvidia's next driver set this issue doesn't happen again. Hoping the next driver set fixes this issue, just surprised it happened as the last few drivers, even BETA's, were fine with the program.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogon*
> 
> Wanting to let you know mdrejhon that the latest beta's did something weird to Surround for me as well, I rolled back so hopefully on Nvidia's next driver set this issue doesn't happen again. Hoping the next driver set fixes this issue, just surprised it happened as the last few drivers, even BETA's, were fine with the program.


To submit a bug report on this, we need to send them to ToastyX (and perhaps to nVidia as well). Can you post here and describe the problem:

-- ToastyX: Post on ToastyX's monitortests forum, so that he can fix ToastyX Strobelight:
http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Strobelight-LightBoost-Utility-for-AMD-ATI-and-NVIDIA?page=1

-- nVidia: Likewise, post an issue report in nVidia's Geforce forums at:
https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/615173/geforce-drivers/official-nvidia-331-40-beta-display-driver-feedback-thread-released-9-30-13-/37/

Alternatively, try enabling LightBoost on your monitors using the "lightboost.bin" CRU method (Alternate LightBoost HOWTO #3) at www.blurbusters.com/lightboost/howto


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> To submit a bug report on this, we need to send them to ToastyX (and perhaps to nVidia as well). Can you post here and describe the problem:
> 
> -- ToastyX: Post on ToastyX's monitortests forum, so that he can fix ToastyX Strobelight:
> http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Strobelight-LightBoost-Utility-for-AMD-ATI-and-NVIDIA?page=1
> 
> -- nVidia: Likewise, post an issue report in nVidia's Geforce forums at:
> https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/615173/geforce-drivers/official-nvidia-331-40-beta-display-driver-feedback-thread-released-9-30-13-/37/
> 
> Alternatively, try enabling LightBoost on your monitors using the "lightboost.bin" CRU method (Alternate LightBoost HOWTO #3) at www.blurbusters.com/lightboost/howto


I sent Toastyx a PM a few days ago about this issue. He seemed to think that it was a nvidia driver problem and its something they need to fix.. Possibly this presumes we wait until the next nvidia driver release to see if its just a one off thing..

I also posted this issue in the Nvidia driver feedback forum.

I also just tried CRU again with a fresh mind and can confirm that it does not work..

I even tried injecting an .inf override profile to the monitor via the Device manager and that didn't work either... Using the steps in the CRU "How to" it gets to the point where you have the emitter active in the Set Up Stereoscopic 3D panel, but as soon as you either exit then or finish the setup wizard, windows still reverts back to a nonlightboosted frequency.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> I even tried injecting an .inf override profile to the monitor via the Device manager and that didn't work either... Using the steps in the CRU "How to" it gets to the point where you have the emitter active in the Set Up Stereoscopic 3D panel, but as soon as you either exit then or finish the setup wizard, windows still reverts back to a nonlightboosted frequency.


Here's an experiment for you to try:
- When you exit the setup wizard, you need to switch back to the custom LightBoost resolution (Vertical Total 1149 in CRU or nVidia Custom resolution). That's switching to the lightboost.bin resolution in ToastyX CRU.

nVidia LightBoost is a two-step unlock:
(A) Encrypted vendor lock in the monitor. Once the green light turns on once (even if it goes out), you're golden until the monitor is unplugged.
(B) Custom timings and resolution with a Vertical Total of 1149. This brings LightBoost back easily, but only if (A) is done first.


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Here's an experiment for you to try:
> - When you exit the setup wizard, you need to switch back to the custom LightBoost resolution (Vertical Total 1149 in CRU or nVidia Custom resolution). That's switching to the lightboost.bin resolution in ToastyX CRU.
> 
> nVidia LightBoost is a two-step unlock:
> (A) Encrypted vendor lock in the monitor. Once the green light turns on once (even if it goes out), you're golden until the monitor is unplugged.
> (B) Custom timings and resolution with a Vertical Total of 1149. This brings LightBoost back easily, but only if (A) is done first.


When I try to enable lightboost with either selecting the Maximise 3D Performance, Activate all displays or Disable SLI options in the nvidia control panel it works perfectly with either the Strobelightbeta2 or the CRU method. With the CRU method it works even after just a reboot from injecting lightboost.bin. There is no need to enter the Set up stereoscopic 3d step for it to be enabled.. (the monitors are just setup up as generic plug and play monitors in device manager too btw. No overrides or anything)

But from this point if I select Span displays with Surround, lightboost does not stay enabled and has never been able to be enabled either.

I checked after I tried both methods and nvidia is saying that the timing that is in effect for Vertical total is 1149. .

*edit... It has just occured to me that when using the CRU method and entering the Setup Stereoscopic 3D step that windows actually does all this in single display mode and not surround.. So yes it will turn on the emitter at this point but when you exit or finish this step, it it then reverts back to surround mode and the original NON working frequency..

**Edit #2.. The Hardware ID under the details tab in the monitor properties in Control Panel are saying its a NVS10DE. And that's not whats its been calling it up until now.. It has been ACI27E2 (The Asus HR) until now.. Seems nvidia arent releasing the correct monitor details to the software..


----------



## AnDry115

I am using Strobelight by ToastyX, and i would like to know..

1) If using that "crt mode" can have any bad effect on the monitor itself, since I figure that using it, is like overclocking ? (or am i wrong?)

2) If its better to always have it ON, or to turn it OFF when not gaming ?

3) If its ok that i have 125fps in-game (Quake Live) and 120hz with lightboost ON ? Or should i put in-game fps 120 ?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnDry115*
> 
> I am using Strobelight by ToastyX, and i would like to know..
> 1) If using that "crt mode" can have any bad effect on the monitor itself, since I figure that using it, is like overclocking ? (or am i wrong?)


It's a native feature of the monitor, as it's normally used for nVidia 3D Vision. You're just using LightBoost solely for a motion blur eliminating purpose. (The LightBoost FAQ covers "What is LightBoost?", mentioning its use for simultaneously eliminating 3D crosstalk and eliminating motion blur)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnDry115*
> 
> 2) If its better to always have it ON, or to turn it OFF when not gaming ?


It's a personal user preference.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnDry115*
> 
> 3) If its ok that i have 125fps in-game (Quake Live) and 120hz with lightboost ON ? Or should i put in-game fps 120 ?


Depends on how the game works. If the game physics is running at 125fps and you are playing competitively, it is probably better at 125.
On the other hand, if you're more concerned about eliminating stutters completely, then 120fps has less stutters than 125fps, since it matches the refresh rate. Pros and cons.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> *edit... It has just occured to me that when using the CRU method and entering the Setup Stereoscopic 3D step that windows actually does all this in single display mode and not surround.. So yes it will turn on the emitter at this point but when you exit or finish this step, it it then reverts back to surround mode and the original NON working frequency..
> 
> **Edit #2.. The Hardware ID under the details tab in the monitor properties in Control Panel are saying its a NVS10DE. And that's not whats its been calling it up until now.. It has been ACI27E2 (The Asus HR) until now.. Seems nvidia arent releasing the correct monitor details to the software..


I believe it's the drivers as well.
One user reported that 3D Vision has stopped working too (3D glasses) and LightBoost is a part of that subsystem (even if you use it for 2D), so that may be related.


----------



## DirtyTrickster

quick question. I've been using the toasty x utility with my vg278h while playing bf4. today I hooked up an old 17" 60hz monitor I had laying around to run temp monitoring apps as well as the bf4 battlemap, which is web based. will this cause a problem?

I noticed my eyes were getting blurry at the end of the game and I'm trying to figure out if thus had anything to do with it.

so primary monitor is 1920x1080 120hz
secondary is 1280x1024 60hz.

nvidia beta drivers 331.40 I believe.


----------



## socketus

ouch ! yah, I'd guess from trying to look at a 120hz monitor and switching over to the 60hz monitor for a quick look, that's gotta be dizzying.

btw, you reference the BF4 web-based battlemap - I'm in the beta, but I have no idea what you're talking about - can you EX-SPLAIN ???


----------



## DirtyTrickster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *socketus*
> 
> ouch ! yah, I'd guess from trying to look at a 120hz monitor and switching over to the 60hz monitor for a quick look, that's gotta be dizzying.
> 
> btw, you reference the BF4 web-based battlemap - I'm in the beta, but I have no idea what you're talking about - can you EX-SPLAIN ???


the map that is in the lower left corner. if you have 2 monitors,or 1 monitor and a second laptop or tablet you can view that map on a different screen. when I join a server it will load the game on the right screen, while on the left screen is my browser. once the game has loaded there will be an option on the browser-screen- screen- that says view battlemap or something along those lines. now the map is nice and big on that screen


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

I gave up on light boost with how much of a pita is was, but now I see ToastyX has a new way.... might have to try this


----------



## DirtyTrickster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> I gave up on light boost with how much of a pita is was, but now I see ToastyX has a new way.... might have to try this


I've had mixed feeling with the toastyX app. The majority of the time it works great, but sometimes it gets a little flakey.

The only problems I've had with it are:
in BF3 when I died I'd have a brief black screen (<1s)
When I change my bindings in BF3, the app would always turn on and off, asking if I wanted to save the display settings.

Recently, sometimes if I'm typing on a browser and I hit 5 or 6, the brightness of the screen would increase or decrease and the 5 and 6 wouldn't display on the browser. Id have to disable the strobe light application to get the keyboard to work properly.

Other than that it's been good. ~90% of the time.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DirtyTrickster*
> 
> I've had mixed feeling with the toastyX app. The majority of the time it works great, but sometimes it gets a little flakey.
> 
> The only problems I've had with it are:
> in BF3 when I died I'd have a brief black screen (<1s)
> When I change my bindings in BF3, the app would always turn on and off, asking if I wanted to save the display settings.
> 
> Recently, sometimes if I'm typing on a browser and I hit 5 or 6, the brightness of the screen would increase or decrease and the 5 and 6 wouldn't display on the browser. Id have to disable the strobe light application to get the keyboard to work properly.
> 
> Other than that it's been good. ~90% of the time.


I just installed it and its been pretty good in BF4 beta, need brightness maxed tho to be able to see







. I only use this monitor for gaming tho so Im just turning it off when I dont need it


----------



## bwana

Does anyone have any tech info on these two monitors:

1) ACER GD235

does it have PWM? Reports at tom's hardware a couple of years ago panned it for having lag. Is there a simple way to measure that?

2) 27QW IPS LED 27" LG AH-IPS
in this monitor:
http://redirect.anandtech.com/r?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FCROSSOVER-27QW-IPS-LED-2560x1440%2Fdp%2FB00EZM7GCY&user=u00000687

is it the same panel listed in page 1 of this thread here:
QNIX QX2710 Evolution 2

I was told
Crossover have lg ips panels
Qnix have samsung pls panels

but then items like this:
http://www.amazon.com/QNIX-QX2710-LED-Evolution-2560x1440/dp/B00CI3EQA2/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1381518128&sr=1-3&keywords=QNIX+QX2710+Evolution+2

make the distinction blurry as it is listed as
as 27 inch 2560x1440 Samsung PLS (LG IPS)

I want to try lightboost and am wondering if i should buy the older one which i can get a deal on. I've seen the acer and the viewing angles and colors are not all the bad.


----------



## AnDry115

I have a quick two question's..

My specs are:

CPU: i5-3570K
GPU: GTX 660 TOP 2GB
MONITOR: BENQ XL2411T

So the question's are:
1) should i stick to my GTX 660, or should i put in the RADEON 7950 3GB card ?

Basically im not sure, with which one the lightboost will work better..

2) why does it feel stuttery when i play Quake Live with LightBoost ON ??

First i thought it's my internet or smth.. but i guess its LB







(


----------



## Overclocker.Monster

Noob question, can be lightboost be used on AMD video cards?


----------



## Gorgatron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Overclocker.Monster*
> 
> Noob question, can be lightboost be used on AMD video cards?


no


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Overclocker.Monster*
> 
> Noob question, can be lightboost be used on AMD video cards?


Yes using ToastyX's Strobelight utility:
http://www.blurbusters.com/easy-lightboost-toastyx-strobelight/


----------



## Dhalgren65

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> Yes using ToastyX's Strobelight utility:
> http://www.blurbusters.com/easy-lightboost-toastyx-strobelight/


YEEES.
(and it is AWESOME)


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorgatron*
> 
> no


that's why I love OCN... broscience does NOT prevail


----------



## ToastyX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DirtyTrickster*
> 
> I've had mixed feeling with the toastyX app. The majority of the time it works great, but sometimes it gets a little flakey.


It shouldn't be flaky at all. Most of the issues people have reported are not problems with the program itself.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DirtyTrickster*
> 
> The only problems I've had with it are:
> in BF3 when I died I'd have a brief black screen (<1s)


That's a BF3 issue, not a problem with the program. Several people replied to your earlier post with the solution. You have to go into the game's video options and select the monitor and the fullscreen resolution, then press the "apply fullscreen resolution" button. You might have to apply a different resolution first and change it back for it to apply properly.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DirtyTrickster*
> 
> When I change my bindings in BF3, the app would always turn on and off, asking if I wanted to save the display settings.


The program would not turn itself on or off, nor would it ask to save anything. Something else is doing that. The only time the program does anything is if you press a hotkey or use the tray icon menu.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DirtyTrickster*
> 
> Recently, sometimes if I'm typing on a browser and I hit 5 or 6, the brightness of the screen would increase or decrease and the 5 and 6 wouldn't display on the browser. Id have to disable the strobe light application to get the keyboard to work properly.


That could be a bug, but I need a way to reproduce it. Nobody else has reported that happening. The only reason that would happen is if the program thinks the Ctrl+Alt keys are still pressed for some reason, but I don't see how that could happen unless something was messing with raw input somehow. I might be able to add something to work around that, but I'd like to know how that's happening in the first place.


----------



## Ka0sX

hey guys just wondering if anyone has good color settings for AMD/ATI cards? As i have a new card coming today

I was using these setting from mark at blurbusters

For better LightBoost colors, adjust your nVidia Control Panel:
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Brightness = 52%
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Contrast = 45%
nVidia Control Panel Desktop Gamma = 0.70

The above setting looked great with light boost enabled

So just wondering is there any good setting for ATI/AMD R9 280X is on its way to me


----------



## SightUp

When I run the strobelight-setup.exe, I have two 120hz settings. What is the difference between 120hz (strobed) and the 121hz? Which is better for gaming? Or should I be using 144hz with my BenQ?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> When I run the strobelight-setup.exe, I have two 120hz settings. What is the difference between 120hz (strobed) and the 121hz? Which is better for gaming? Or should I be using 144hz with my BenQ?


Strobed is usually better, but it is a matter of personal preference.

View motion test, such as www.testufo.com/photo, while trying out all the different modes. Of all the modes, the strobed modes (120Hz LightBoost) will have far less motion blur. It is good if you are able to sustain triple-digit frame rates, at a tradeoff between motion clarity and color quality.


----------



## SightUp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Strobed is usually better, but it is a matter of personal preference.
> 
> View motion test, such as www.testufo.com/photo, while trying out all the different modes. Of all the modes, the strobed modes (120Hz LightBoost) will have far less motion blur. It is good if you are able to sustain triple-digit frame rates, at a tradeoff between motion clarity and color quality.


Cool, I will go with the strobe one then. Thank you!


----------



## SightUp

I guess another question is, doing the fix the old way, which did it do by default?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> I guess another question is, doing the fix the old way, which did it do by default?


120Hz strobed. (or 100Hz strobed if you were running 100Hz).

Just to be clear, ToastyX Strobelight:
LightBoost = modes with "strobed" (LightBoost enabled)
regular = modes without "strobed" (LightBoost disabled)


----------



## CYBER-SNIPA

I know that it's probably too early to tell, but I'm wondering what effect Lightboost will have with Nvidia's new G-Sync technology? Will they be compatible or not? And will the Lightboost effect be enhanced or decreased with G-Sync? Hopefully they will be compatible and maybe even offer further enhancements to the blur-less magic???


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CYBER-SNIPA*
> 
> I know that it's probably too early to tell, but I'm wondering what effect Lightboost will have with Nvidia's new G-Sync technology? Will they be compatible or not? And will the Lightboost effect be enhanced or decreased with G-Sync? Hopefully they will be compatible and maybe even offer further enhancements to the blur-less magic???


Check out the website: http://www.blurbusters.com/confirmed-nvidia-g-sync-includes-a-strobe-backlight-upgrade/

Seems like G-SYNC is Lightboost 2.0!


----------



## CYBER-SNIPA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikjadoon*
> 
> Check out the website: http://www.blurbusters.com/confirmed-nvidia-g-sync-includes-a-strobe-backlight-upgrade/
> 
> Seems like G-SYNC is Lightboost 2.0!


Very interesting read, thanks for the link. I guess I shoulda looked on the 'Oracle' first before posting?









Oh well always a conversation starter LOL ..........................................................................................


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikjadoon*
> 
> Check out the website: http://www.blurbusters.com/confirmed-nvidia-g-sync-includes-a-strobe-backlight-upgrade/
> 
> Seems like G-SYNC is Lightboost 2.0!


Please don't get confused by what he is saying. Currently, you cannot have G-Sync and Lightboost active at the same time. There is no way to do a variable strobe rate. NVIDIA said they are working on it.


----------



## CYBER-SNIPA

Let's all hope that when Nvidia releases G-Sync, it will have few glitches and hopefully either be as good, or better than Lightboost? With good strobe back lighting and zero motion blur ala ToastysX superb tool. It looks like the future of PC monitors will have more clarity!!! LOL









Edit Update: I spotted this on another thread:-

"Originally Posted by copelandmaster

@AndyBNV

What does this mean for Lightboost monitors and specifically ToastyX implementation? How does G-Sync compare to Lightboost strobbing? Do they work together, like with 3D Vision?

The VG248QE is one of the top monitors in this category. However, Lightboost uses DVI for a connection, and last time I checked, Displayport does not support this feature.

AndyBNV Replied; We have a superior, low-persistence mode that should outperform that unofficial implementation, and importantly, it will be available on every G-SYNC monitor. Details will be available at a later [email protected]"

Source; http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=86572603&postcount=539


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CYBER-SNIPA*
> 
> Let's all hope that when Nvidia releases G-Sync, it will have few glitches and hopefully either be as good, or better than Lightboost? With good strobe back lighting and zero motion blur ala ToastysX superb tool. It looks like the future of PC monitors will have more clarity!!! LOL


G-Sync and LightBoost have different benefits.

G-Sync == better for variable framerate content, but has more motion blur
LightBoost == better for constant perfect [email protected], (stutters with variable framerates)

The ideal scenario would be to combine Strobing + G-Sync.
G-Sync monitors includes a strobe mode, but it's an "either-or" proposition.


----------



## mdrejhon

The "superior" strobe mode probably means:
-- Officially sanctioned. Optimized for 2D, rather than as 3D secondary feature
-- Fixing LightBoost colors/gamma bleaching
-- Permitting shorter strobe lengths (e.g. 0.5ms)
-- Easy nVidia Control Panel operation of strobing
-- Easy surround

(alas, for ToastyX -- making Strobelight potentially obsolete/unnecessary, though ToastyX probably could update it to allow hotkey operation of strobing -- giving it continued use as a hotkey enhancement. I don't think G-Sync can work with Radeon's)
Quote:


> The VG248QE is one of the top monitors in this category. However, Lightboost uses DVI for a connection, and last time I checked, Displayport does not support this feature.


LightBoost works on DVI and DP.


----------



## socketus

I want to say THANKS ! to you mredrejhon and to Toasty - you guys are making LB setup intelligible to us all, and you all continue to keep us informed of LB's development and use.









Big effort on your parts - we all wouldn't be here without ya, and don't forget to say thanks to CallSignVega


----------



## Gabkicks

carmack was talkin about wanting to do both at the same time, ithink. maybe i missunderstood but it sounded like he thinks it is doable. I wish somehow 3d could be as smooth as 2d lightboost :/


----------



## MLJS54

Just wanted to say thank you.

Setup was a breeze with the ToastyX installer and LB works real well on my BenQ XL2420TE / Radeon R9 280x. No more eyestrain in fast paced Darkfall combat. I can visually keep up with targets much better now than before.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Just wanted to say thank you.
> 
> Setup was a breeze with the ToastyX installer and LB works real well on my BenQ XL2420TE / Radeon R9 280x. No more eyestrain in fast paced Darkfall combat. I can visually keep up with targets much better now than before.


You're welcome!

Welcome to the world of *motion blur/artifact eyestrain*, sometimes a bigger evil than strobe/PWM eyestrain (for some of us, like me and CallSignVega), which motion blur optimized strobing fixes.

(Some people get PWM eyestrain, CRT eyestrain, but others also get motion blur/motion artifact eyestrain.)


----------



## HellionGR

On other news new Whql release driver today.Still Bugged Surround Lightboost as 331.40 Nvidia is starting to really piss me off with their drivers.


----------



## mdrejhon

I think it's going to require at least a one or two more driver cycles. They took that long to fix the 4K 2-monitor-surround issue.


----------



## CYBER-SNIPA

Has anyone tried running these bad boys in surround or single screen with Lightboost?

- Overlord Tempest X270OC.

http://overlordcomputer.com/collections/27-displays

I'm just wondering how they would perform? And which GPU's would be required to run a triple monitor set-up???


----------



## mdrejhon

X270OC's do not have LightBoost.
Overclockable 1440p's have about six times more motion blur than LightBoost displays.
See Photos: 60Hz vs 120Hz vs LightBoost.

For a list of which monitors has LightBoost, see List of 120Hz monitors.


----------



## CYBER-SNIPA

@mdrejhon - Thanks for the insight's!!!


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HellionGR*
> 
> On other news new Whql release driver today.Still Bugged Surround Lightboost as 331.40 Nvidia is starting to really piss me off with their drivers.


That sucks. Ive been looking every day for the next release and your post saved me the rush.. I've dropped back to the 327.23 so I can still use lightboost. Those drivers are perfect for most games out now anyway.. Primarily BF3.


----------



## kevindd992002

Is the problem with Lightboost for new drivers only for Surround setup?


----------



## HellionGR

yes works great on single monitor mode


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Is the problem with Lightboost for new drivers only for Surround setup?


Correct, yes. Single monitor users are fine.

For multimonitor LightBoost fix, I heard they'll fix it in the next two drivers rounds. They're running a queue of driver releases, and the fix hasn't made it out yet. I've got two NVIDIA employee confirms [email protected] and [email protected] that they're wanting to fix the problem.

They explain they run an assembly line (like alpha-beta-release), and the fix is a few versions behind. There'll be at least one more driver release that doesn't yet fix the problem yet, *so brace yourselves*.

They're probably not happy about it (since they want to sell G-SYNC), but LightBoost users like CallSignVega spends big money already, has commandeered LightBoost sufficiently, that NVIDIA wants to protect the ultra-elite users like you, CallSignVega. They do care about you, apparently. It seems a delicate situation that they need to step around.


----------



## mdrejhon

P.S. G-SYNC monitors support strobing at 85Hz and 144Hz!
The G-SYNC optional superior sequel to LightBoost (fixed-rate strobe mode) actually *supports strobing at 85Hz and at 144Hz* (at least), in addition to existing LightBoost modes (100Hz and 120Hz). You heard from me, first!


----------



## PainKiller89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> P.S. G-SYNC monitors support strobing at 85Hz and 144Hz!
> The G-SYNC optional superior sequel to LightBoost (fixed-rate strobe mode) actually *supports strobing at 85Hz and at 144Hz* (at least), in addition to existing LightBoost modes (100Hz and 120Hz). You heard from me, first!


Thanks for posting, my device manager the monitor is coming up as generic pnp monitor does someone have a driver for the monitor, i am on windows 7 64bit.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PainKiller89*
> 
> Thanks for posting, my device manager the monitor is coming up as generic pnp monitor does someone have a driver for the monitor, i am on windows 7 64bit.


1. Make sure you're using recent GeForce or Radeon drivers.
2. Try plugging your monitor into the other DVI port of your graphics card.

Sometimes the graphics cards have two DVI ports, and only one of them is dual-link.


----------



## skuko

well, the g-sync is exciting news indeed. now waiting for a 2560x1440 monitor with good color reproduction (i.e. IPS) with g-sync (or at least hope that the DIY kit can be installed into the ASUS PB278Q)


----------



## Aesthethc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> X270OC's do not have LightBoost.
> *Overclockable 1440p's have about six times more motion blur than LightBoost displays.*
> See Photos: 60Hz vs 120Hz vs LightBoost.
> 
> For a list of which monitors has LightBoost, see List of 120Hz monitors.


Woah really? How bad is "six times more motion blur" ? Like what can you compare it to so i can make more sense out of that statement o_o

I was thinking about getting a 1440p and overclock it to 120hz... but now that you mention that i may not switch...


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aesthethc*
> 
> Woah really? How bad is "six times more motion blur" ? Like what can you compare it to so i can make more sense out of that statement o_o
> I was thinking about getting a 1440p and overclock it to 120hz... but now that you mention that i may not switch...


Examples of motion blur:
go to www.testufo.com .... More motion blur at 30fps than 60fps (on LCD)
Next, see www.testufo.com/framerates-text -- Difficulty reading scrolling text;
Also, see www.testufo.com/eyetracking -- Demo of common motion blur caused by persistence.

Going to 120Hz typically halves motion blur. However, if you are able to enable a strobe backlight at one strobe per refresh, on fully refreshed LCD (between the LCD refreshes), you've got a strobed sequence of very sharp frames, and much shorter persistence, so you get less tracking motion blur. Look at the LightBoost testimonials as an example.

Of course, to really see the maximum benefits, you need a framerate matching the strobe rate -- e.g. GPU capable of 120fps @ 120Hz or 100fps @ 100Hz.
(or 85fps @ 85Hz / 144fps @ 144Hz when nVidia G-SYNC enables 85Hz and 144Hz strobing)
There are additional benefits of G-SYNC, including G-SYNC's other stutter-free variable refresh rate mode (which has more motion blur but eliminates stutters/tearing).


----------



## Aesthethc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Examples of motion blur:
> go to www.testufo.com .... More motion blur at 30fps than 60fps (on LCD)
> Next, see www.testufo.com/framerates-text -- Difficulty reading scrolling text;
> Also, see www.testufo.com/eyetracking -- Demo of common motion blur caused by persistence.
> 
> Going to 120Hz typically halves motion blur. However, if you are able to enable a strobe backlight at one strobe per refresh, on fully refreshed LCD (between the LCD refreshes), you've got a strobed sequence of very sharp frames, and much shorter persistence, so you get less tracking motion blur. Look at the LightBoost testimonials as an example.
> 
> Of course, to really see the maximum benefits, you need a framerate matching the strobe rate -- e.g. GPU capable of 120fps @ 120Hz or 100fps @ 100Hz.
> (or 85fps @ 85Hz / 144fps @ 144Hz when nVidia G-SYNC enables 85Hz and 144Hz strobing)
> There are additional benefits of G-SYNC, including G-SYNC's other stutter-free variable refresh rate mode (which has more motion blur but eliminates stutters/tearing).


I understand all of this. I am using Lightboost 120hz strobed right now on my VG278HE. I was just concerned about upgrading to 1440p and i heard you can OC some of the foreign models to 120hz. Why do those 1440p displays that OC to 120hz not as good as my current 1080p set up? Is it because they do not have that 3D strobe feature like my VG278HE?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aesthethc*
> 
> Is it because they do not have that 3D strobe feature like my VG278HE?


Correct; none of the overclockable models have a strobe mode. The biggest reason to get the overclockables is to get IPS color and extra resolution at this time.

Your motion blur on the overclockable 120Hz monitors will be slightly worse than the motion blur of non-LightBoost 120Hz on your monitor. If going without a strobe mode bothers you, you may wish to wait for strobe-backlight monitors that use IPS or VA panels, if you like LightBoost a lot. Also, most people run 96Hz because above 96Hz on the overclockables, doesn't show significant noticeable benefit. They are great for graphics and software development but aren't as good FPS monitors as the current crop of LightBoost monitors (and upcoming G-SYNC monitors, which includes the LightBoost sequel superior to LightBoost).


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Please don't get confused by what he is saying. Currently, you cannot have G-Sync and Lightboost active at the same time. There is no way to do a variable strobe rate. NVIDIA said they are working on it.


Ah, crap, sorry.







I meant to say, "G-SYNC-enabled monitors are capable of Lightboost 2.0". You're completely right: you can't have both (yet)!


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> P.S. G-SYNC monitors support strobing at 85Hz and 144Hz!
> The G-SYNC optional superior sequel to LightBoost (fixed-rate strobe mode) actually *supports strobing at 85Hz and at 144Hz* (at least), in addition to existing LightBoost modes (100Hz and 120Hz). You heard from me, first!


"You heard from me, first!"









So if I understand this right. With G-SYNC you'll be able to either choose: 1) no tearing etc or 2) the superior sequel to 2D LB?
The prequisites would be, a G-SYNC monitor and a kepler GPU?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARIKOmagic*
> 
> "You heard from me, first!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So if I understand this right. With G-SYNC you'll be able to either choose: 1) no tearing etc or 2) the superior sequel to 2D LB?
> The prequisites would be, a G-SYNC monitor and a kepler GPU?


Essentially, yes.


----------



## SightUp

I am confused. G-SYNC is indeed better than Lightboost technology? Do you need to do a Lightboost hack in order to enable it or is it just plug and play?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> I am confused. G-SYNC is indeed better than Lightboost technology? Do you need to do a Lightboost hack in order to enable it or is it just plug and play?


All G-SYNC monitors include a mode that is a superior sequel to LightBoost.
There are multiple modes included in G-SYNC, that you can switch between:

1. G-SYNC Mode -- variable refresh rate with less stutters

2. Improved LightBoost mode -- fixed refresh rate but less blur


----------



## writer21

Can I add this to the 278HE version monitor and will lightboost 2.0 be there as well?


----------



## PCM2

The initial DIY kit is only available for the VG248QE. Nobody knows which monitors will be moddable in the same way in the future. And I wouldn't start calling this low-persistence mode 'LightBoost 2.0' as it may cause confusion. Nvidia is unlikely to call it that seeing as it's not designed with 3D technology in mind. Perhaps G-Boost? Who knows.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> The initial DIY kit is only available for the VG248QE. Nobody knows which monitors will be moddable in the same way in the future. And I wouldn't start calling this low-persistence mode 'LightBoost 2.0' as it may cause confusion. Nvidia is unlikely to call it that seeing as it's not designed with 3D technology in mind. Perhaps G-Boost? Who knows.


Agreed. They probably have a brand name they will announce soon.


----------



## mdrejhon

BTW, I have come up with a theory of why there's 768 MB of memory on G-SYNC.
And it's not what you think.
Quote:


> The 768MB on G-SYNC was mentioned to be used for "color processing".
> That's simplistic, but it's accurate scientifically.
> 
> Artifact-free response time acceleration. (keep colors from overshooting)
> Artifact-free LCD inversion algorithms. (prevent checkerboard artifacts - demo animation - complaint example)
> Artifact-free FRC algorithms. (improve colors further)
> Artifact-free strobing (better Y-axis compensated RTC algorithms)
> 
> My math is that many gigaFLOPS is necessary if you do functions completely by math. To do the curves properly, you need multiple processing operations per pixel (probably a dozen or more), and there's a billion subpixel updates per second in 1920 x 1080 x (3 subpixels) x 144Hz. That'd require 10 GFLOPS for 10 operations per subpixel. Getting 10 gigabytes/sec memory throughput is cheaper than getting 10 GFLOPS, so I'm assuming they're not going to calculate the curves.
> 
> Also, isn't G-SYNC is a FPGA and not an ASIC at this time? Which, slightly limits processing power, but increases flexibility? I thought it was since ASIC's aren't flexible enough for G-SYNC requirements. From what I heard from John's talks and others, G-SYNC has a lot of programmable and upgradeable modes including variable-refresh rate modes, fixed-refresh modes, strobe modes (which requires a different Y-axis-compensated overdrive algorithm, for varying pixel freshnesses prior to the full-screen strobe). Other sources mentioned the firmware upgradeability, as well.
> 
> LightBoost doesn't even have enough bits of precision in its Y-axis compensated RTC -- the overdrive bands of Y-axis RTC show up on a LightBoost-enabled monitor during the Flicker Test - http://www.testufo.com/flicker (Height = Full Screen) -- during strobe backlight or 3D mode. I've determined these are rounding errors in Y-axis compensated RTC -- more bits of precision would make the overdrive zones disappear into a fully gradually blended Y-axis compensated RTC. So they'll probably need greater-than-8-bit precision during RTC, *maybe even floating point RTC*, and possibly might even have advanced temporal dithering in the RTC to try to blend out everything since 6-bit RTC cannot completely erase the previous refresh.
> 
> It's so incredibly involved to get pixels to settle nicely, it's mind boggling. If they're off by just even one 8-bit shade (1/256th), there's 0.3% brightness difference that can be human visible in some colors, you'll still see a faint sharp doubleghost (crosstalk, a problem for 3D too, and 2D motion). But TN's are often 6-bit and their RTC is probably only 6-bit as a result. The TestUFO Eiffel Tower Test on a strobe-backlight monitor demonstrates the crosstalk effect in 2D mode -- you see a razor-sharp ghost double image (non-blurred) a few pixels to the side of the eiffel tower as it scrolls sideways. Sometimes you also see 6-bit TN "noise" artifacts in the razor-sharp doubleghost (occurs more often on VG278H than my XL2411T, bottom edge of screen -- drag the TestUFO window near bottom edge); this instantly reveals the limited bits of the RTC.
> 
> Also, RTC and inversion has often nasty interference effects sometimes, see http://www.testufo.com/inversion (do this on TN 120Hz monitors)
> This is greatly amplified with strobing, and has also created user complaints with 3D mode. LCD Inversion is well-explained at TechMind and Lagom.nl Tests, and I know traditional inversion patterns creates some issues with 3D modes / strobe modes.
> 
> (I've done lots of motion testing on LightBoost monitors, and it's amazing how much RTC secrets of a display, can be revealed)
> 
> Based on what I now know what's needed to cleanly fix RTC problems during strobing, I'm going to imagine that G-SYNC may need to include:
> -- True floating point RTC.
> -- True floating point framebuffers
> -- Advanced LCD inversion algorithm
> -- Advanced temporal dithering algorithm to convert the floating point framebuffer into a 6-bit image for the TN LCD.
> 
> We have to prevent interplay artifacts between FRC + inversion + RTC + strobing, there are so many opportunities for those to happen between merely even just any two of those (as we've seen from inversion+strobing at http://www.testufo.com/inversion when viewing it in LightBoost mode).
> 
> To simulate true floating point RTC without too many FLOPS, you'll probably need lots of pre-computed floating point lookup tables (created at monitor bootup) because the number of math operations per pixel becomes mind-boggling for fixing that last 1% of imperfectness in LCD pixel state. It's like going from 99% speed of light to closer to 100% speed of light. The work increases unimaginably gigantically on that last 1%, than going from 0%->99%
> 
> These aren't confirmable, but NVIDIA's reply of "color processing" is quite accurate, since that's a plain-english umbrella of keeping the pixel color values correct and as saturated as possible, without temporal/dynamic side effects (from variable refresh, from inversion, from strobing, from RTC).


----------



## SightUp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> All G-SYNC monitors include a mode that is a superior sequel to LightBoost.
> There are multiple modes included in G-SYNC, that you can switch between:
> 
> 1. G-SYNC Mode -- variable refresh rate with less stutters
> 
> 2. Improved LightBoost mode -- fixed refresh rate but less blur


So for gaming, a G-SYNC monitor will beat my BenQ w/ Lightboost?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> So for gaming, a G-SYNC monitor will beat my BenQ w/ Lightboost?


In other words, yes.
e.g. Like LightBoost, but with better colors, less ghosting, and even clearer motion than LightBoost=10%

The big question is whether the improvements might be marginal (e.g. smaller than the difference between VG278H and XL2411T) or it might be massive.


----------



## kevindd992002

When will those G-Sync monitors come out? Any news about the pricing?


----------



## PainKiller89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> 1. Make sure you're using recent GeForce or Radeon drivers.
> 2. Try plugging your monitor into the other DVI port of your graphics card.
> 
> Sometimes the graphics cards have two DVI ports, and only one of them is dual-link.


I will try this when i get home, but does anyone happen to have the driver for the monitor?


----------



## Hefner

Anyone here knows if g-sync will be applicable to my BenQ XL2411T? I bought this monitor a few months ago for the sake of lightboost, however, g-sync seems to be superior to lightboost thus that is what I want. If it isn't compatible I will sell the monitor right away, and the sooner I can sell it the more money I can get back.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hefner*
> 
> Anyone here knows if g-sync will be applicable to my BenQ XL2411T? I bought this monitor a few months ago for the sake of lightboost, however, g-sync seems to be superior to lightboost thus that is what I want. If it isn't compatible I will sell the monitor right away, and the sooner I can sell it the more money I can get back.


The XL2411T is so similar to the VG248QE, it might even use the same board. But ASUS uses different menus, so the board may very well need to be reprogrammed, or monitor firmware needs to be reflashed, etc. I guess time will tell if this is the case, or not.


----------



## ikjadoon

Little typo on the NVIDIA G-SYNC datasheet. It says that the original VG248QE has VGA, HDMI, and DisplayPort. On mine, I have DVI, HDMI, and DisplayPort.

It also seems to state that, after inserting the G-SYNC module, you can only use DisplayPort--which is fine, but an interesting restriction.


----------



## mdrejhon

177Hz support? I posted on AnandTech but will bring the discussion over here, because this is very interesting.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mark Rejhon*
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *BrightCandle;35628643*
> Guru3d is reporting that monitors with gsync will come up to 177hz and 4k and timeframe was Q1 2014 (they said 2013 in their article but pretty clear that is a typo).
> 
> 
> 
> 177Hz is exactly the maximum bandwidth of a single DP channel for 1920x1080.
> 
> 1920 x 1080 x 24-bit x 177 (Hz) = 8.8 Gbits/sec
> That's exactly half the DisplayPort 1.2 maximum bandwidth of 17.6 Gbits/sec.
> 
> Since they said 1Q2014, and the VG248QE during 1Q2014, plus the DisplayPort math above,
> *I suspect 177Hz non-strobed might even come to the ASUS VG248QE.*
> The panel in the VG248QE already can refresh its panel quicker than 144Hz, because it needs accelerated refreshes during LightBoost mode (source) to create blanking interval. The 1ms panel itself could theoretically be clocked to 240Hz, if using both DisplayPort channels, but that would go into overclocking territory. I wonder if the G-SYNC firmware theoretically allows the use of fixed-refresh-rate 960x1080 240Hz tiled mode. Color quality would be worse than 144Hz, but it would be fairly low-persistence (~4.1ms) without strobing. A bit more persistence than LightBoost=100% during 100Hz (~2.9ms persistence), but getting very close. Albiet you will need an insane GPU to run [email protected] non-strobed.
> 
> Not confirmed, of course.
Click to expand...

-
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mark Rejhon*
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *BrightCandle;35643954*
> 16ms of scan out.
> 
> 
> 
> The scanout at 144Hz is 6.9ms. Since scanout remains constant during variable framerate delivery, you got 6.9ms scanout even at [email protected], since the frame-delivery and scanout stays at the full 1/144sec speed (or 177Hz speed, 5.6ms frame delivery time) regardless of the current variable refresh rate (= rate of delivery of frames).
> 
> Now if you use DisplayPort 2.0, you could speed up delivery of 1920x1080p frames to just 2.3 milliseconds! The rate of delivery of frames doesn't necessarily have to match G-SYNC's maximum refresh rate. 1920x1080 354Hz is the theoretical maximum refresh rate of DisplayPort 2.0, but no panels can really support that today. You could even do it over DisplayPort 1.2 if you tiled two channels (960x1080 @ 354Hz side-by-side). Theoretically, of course.
> 
> However, that doesn't stop future graphics cards from using the maximum dotclock to speed up the delivery of individual refreshes to the monitor, even when the display can't refresh that fast. The monitor can buffer it while immediately beginning a slower scanout. Now you've got a 120Hz refresh with less input lag, because of a 1/240sec frame delivery time (or 1/354sec frame delivery time). In theory, of course.
> 
> The *concept of decoupling frame-delivery time (over DP) from refresh time, even at fixed refresh rates*, is probably going to be an interesting trend of G-SYNC moving forward for certain fixed-refresh-rate applications. G-SYNC will already reduce emulator input lag by about 10ms, even at a fixed refresh rate of [email protected], since the 60Hz refresh can be delivered/scanned in only 1/144second (6.9ms versus 16.7ms)
> 
> This is getting mathematically interesting.
Click to expand...


----------



## kevindd992002

How are G-sync modules inserted into current monitors? I thought they were supposed to be built-in to upcoming monitors?


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> How are G-sync modules inserted into current monitors? I thought they were supposed to be built-in to upcoming monitors?


Unless I understood it wrong, you open up the monitor, replace the controller PCB with the G-Sync one (no soldering required) and close the monitor back up. Or get someone else to have it done beforehand for a premium.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> Unless I understood it wrong, you open up the monitor, replace the controller PCB with the G-Sync one (no soldering required) and close the monitor back up. Or get someone else to have it done beforehand for a premium.


Oh ok and which monitors are supported for this upgrade?


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Oh ok and which monitors are supported for this upgrade?


At first, only ASUS VG248QE is officially supported. But they'll add more resolutions and monitors including 4K ones, quite possibly ASUS only though.

$175 for the kit, or they get professional modders to do it for you.


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> At first, only ASUS VG248QE is officially supported. But they'll add more resolutions and monitors including 4K ones, quite possibly ASUS only though.
> 
> $175 for the kit, or they get professional modders to do it for you.


They have a partnership with Asus, BenQ, Viewsonic, and Phillips. Its not just Asus that is going to provide G-sync capable monitors. Considering that list, we could possibly see this technology come to even lcd panels, other than monitors.


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> They have a partnership with Asus, BenQ, Viewsonic, and Phillips. Its not just Asus that is going to provide G-sync capable monitors. Considering that list, we could possibly see this technology come to even lcd panels, other than monitors.


Oh, nice. I just assumed ASUS only (for a bit) since there was a thread saying nvidia+asus have something awesome.

AMD better incorporate something like this. 20nm+Mantle+something like g-sync would be heavenly.


----------



## Scorpion667

So should the Lightboost community stay away from 290x, at least for now? I have about 4 friends that wanna grab one or two each and I don't know what to tell them. I know Lightboost would work, but with this G-Sync stuff coming out I'm not sure where we stand. I read that Lightboost and G-Sync can't be enabled at the same time, but Vega said Nvidia is working on that?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> How are G-sync modules inserted into current monitors? I thought they were supposed to be built-in to upcoming monitors?


You can also buy monitors with G-SYNC built in, too -- they'll be coming.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> So should the Lightboost community stay away from 290x, at least for now? I have about 4 friends that wanna grab one or two each and I don't know what to tell them. I know Lightboost would work, but with this G-Sync stuff coming out I'm not sure where we stand. I read that Lightboost and G-Sync can't be enabled at the same time, but Vega said Nvidia is working on that?


Who knows, we could be a year or two away from a lightboost/gSync combo and/or GSync 4K monitors. On the fence about getting 290X's. But they are fast and easy to set up in LB..


----------



## SpartanVXL

Does anything know about the AOC G2460PQU? Right now its on special at the local store and I'm considering getting it seeing how the other ones like the BenQ is about $200 NZD more and others like the Asus are out of stock (and still expensive as hell).

Personally I'd like to stop using my CRT, it's been a long run but the compatibility issues with custom resolutions etc are a bit annoying.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpartanVXL*
> 
> Does anything know about the AOC G2460PQU? Right now its on special at the local store and I'm considering getting it seeing how the other ones like the BenQ is about $200 NZD more and others like the Asus are out of stock (and still expensive as hell).
> 
> Personally I'd like to stop using my CRT, it's been a long run but the compatibility issues with custom resolutions etc are a bit annoying.


Unfortunately, the AOC doesn't have a motion blur reduction backlight (LightBoost, or G-SYNC's upcoming strobe mode). At best, you have 50% less motion blur than a 60Hz LCD, rather than going all the way to CRT motion clarity like you can with LightBoost or other strobe backlights.


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> So should the Lightboost community stay away from 290x, at least for now? I have about 4 friends that wanna grab one or two each and I don't know what to tell them. I know Lightboost would work, but with this G-Sync stuff coming out I'm not sure where we stand. I read that Lightboost and G-Sync can't be enabled at the same time, but Vega said Nvidia is working on that?


Another point is the G-SYNC-enabled monitors have an updated Lightboost. And that new version of Lightboost might not be compatible with AMD GPUs. But maybe it will.







Too many questions!


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Who knows, we could be a year or two away from a lightboost/gSync combo and/or GSync 4K monitors. On the fence about getting 290X's. But they are fast and easy to set up in LB..


Cool I'll let someone else be the guinea pig then.

Buddy is trying to get me to start playing BF4 (competitive team) and I was looking for a bit more power then my 1350Mhz 680 can provide, without having to sli/xfire.

I'm guessing assuming that within a few driver updates the 290x will start dominating the titan which might force price drops so I might grab a titan then. Unless you sell me one of yours Vega =P

Since Lightboost is such a game changer, I sort of want to stick to the green team in case LB3 or G-Sync strobing stops working on AMD cards.


----------



## SpartanVXL

Well nevermind about the AOC g2460, this review kind of made be take a step back from it. I'm going to bite the bullet and go for a Asus VG248QE for $500NZD. Looking at my options for shipping it across from the US or elsewhere it's still going to cost me an extra $100 to ship and then possibly get hit by customs on something that has no warranty









Oh well, from the looks of things on this thread and elsewhere the Asus is the go-to for low input lag and high Hz. Goodbye my Philips Brilliance, I shall miss you


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Cool I'll let someone else be the guinea pig then.
> 
> Buddy is trying to get me to start playing BF4 (competitive team) and I was looking for a bit more power then my 1350Mhz 680 can provide, without having to sli/xfire.
> 
> I'm guessing assuming that within a few driver updates the 290x will start dominating the titan which might force price drops so I might grab a titan then. Unless you sell me one of yours Vega =P
> 
> Since Lightboost is such a game changer, I sort of want to stick to the green team in case LB3 or G-Sync strobing stops working on AMD cards.


290x is expanded hardware on old architechture. Large boosts with drivers usually only comes with new architechture. Same thing happened with titan, drivers never made much of a boost as the architechture of kepler was already flushed out. I doubt you will see anything greater than single digit gains with new drivers with the 290x. Unless something with a particular game profile was broken to begin with.


----------



## caenlen

So is there any reason to upgrade from the Toastyx Lightboost to Gsync? Will there be much difference at all? If I can save $150 on the kit, I would like to, lol.


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caenlen*
> 
> So is there any reason to upgrade from the Toastyx Lightboost to Gsync? Will there be much difference at all? If I can save $150 on the kit, I would like to, lol.


It is difficult for people to answer that seeing as it hasn't been released yet. LightBoost is optimised for 3D viewing, it's likely that the strobing mode on G-SYNC will maintain colours better. It should also allow smoother motion (better perhaps than LightBoost 10%) without the same extent of dimming. According to the current information the range of refresh rates available should also be better, so those without super powerful GPUs or who want to play with some extra eye-candy could try 85Hz. This should be a good refresh rate for many to choose as it's a refresh rate many found comfortable on CRTs (compared to 60Hz) and the 'flicker' manifests itself in a CRT-like way for strobing backlights.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> It is difficult for people to answer that seeing as it hasn't been released yet. LightBoost is optimised for 3D viewing, it's likely that the strobing mode on G-SYNC will maintain colours better. It should also allow smoother motion (better perhaps than LightBoost 10%) without the same extent of dimming. According to the current information the range of refresh rates available should also be better, so those without super powerful GPUs or who want to play with some extra eye-candy could try 85Hz. This should be a good refresh rate for many to choose as it's a refresh rate many found comfortable on CRTs (compared to 60Hz) and the 'flicker' manifests itself in a CRT-like way for strobing backlights.


I think G-Sync will have smoother motion, but Lightboost will still have far better motion clarity. Still an either/or unfortunately. I personally think G-Sync is better for slower machines, or machines running very demanding screens like Eyefinity/Surround setups and 4K monitors at 60 Hz. Lightboost will be better for the 120+ FPS folks.

The great thing about G-Sync is it will work with monitors with awesome picture quality. In order to get Lightboost and it's associated motion clarity, just about every other possible facet of a display takes a hard hit in sacrifice.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> The great thing about G-Sync is it will work with monitors with awesome picture quality. In order to get Lightboost and it's associated motion clarity, just about every other possible facet of a display takes a hard hit in sacrifice.


I know it is technologically possible to get strobing without the other hits. NVIDIA had to optimize LightBoost for 3D Vision use, sacrificing a lot of 2D image quality.

Keep tuned for reviews of G-SYNC's strobe mode, too. It probably won't eliminate all problems (e.g. brightness), but colors and other things should be greatly better.


----------



## Scorpion667

I had stopped using lightboost for a few weeks due to a bug:

VERY RARELY (1~2 times a week) my screen will go black and reinitialize, taking me out of the game for 2~3 seconds. This happens even when ToastyX not running. I disabled Stereoscopic 3D from Nvidia control panel, so my Lightboost is permanent (i.e don't have to alt+T to kick it back in 2d when alt tabbing back into game).

So during the two weeks I:
-cleaned drivers
-reinstalled drivers,
-uninstalled monitor driver
-reinstalled monitor driver.

And the issue did not occur once in those two weeks, so it's safe to assume it's not a hardware issue.

Can I prevent this in any way?

Using:
-nvidia 314.07 driver (will try another driver tonight.. any recommendations for Lightboost "stability"?)
-nvidia 680 lightning on LN2 BIOS stock clocks
-XL2420T monitor at 120hz lightboost 10% brightness (lowest)
-usually have lightboost enabled 24/7
-usually only use ToastyX once during initial setup and is not set to autostart on windows.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> I had stopped using lightboost for a few weeks due to a bug:


Does this happen only during predictable moments, such as dieing in Battlefield3?
If so, Battlefield3 blackout can be fixed by going into its menus and reselecting the mode, saving again, and restarting the game app. It's caused by the instantaneous switch to 120Hz-nonstrobed back to 120Hz-strobed. Game bug. Mode switches in LightBoost is really slow, so that causes the 2-3 second blackout (same as when turning on/off lightboost).
Quote:


> Can I prevent this in any way?


Yep. Universal prevention:
Re-run strobelight-setup.exe and only install "120Hz strobed".

You won't be able to turn off LightBoost, but it will prevent the blackout caused by video mode switches.


----------



## shedokan

it isnt hardware issue dont be worried, just use ToastyX latest beta to turn LB after reseting the display and it should open only on the startup and not in regular use


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shedokan*
> 
> it isnt hardware issue dont be worried, just use ToastyX latest beta to turn LB after reseting the display and it should open only on the startup and not in regular use


BF3 has a known mode-switch bug, even without ToastyX.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Does this happen only during predictable moments, such as dieing in Battlefield3?
> If so, Battlefield3 blackout can be fixed by going into its menus and reselecting the mode, saving again, and restarting the game app. It's caused by the instantaneous switch to 120Hz-nonstrobed back to 120Hz-strobed. Game bug. Mode switches in LightBoost is really slow, so that causes the 2-3 second blackout (same as when turning on/off lightboost).
> Yep. Universal prevention:
> Re-run strobelight-setup.exe and only install "120Hz strobed".
> 
> You won't be able to turn off LightBoost, but it will prevent the blackout caused by video mode switches.


Naw I don't play BF3. Happens on desktop too.
That solution sounds PERFECT for what I need! I'm always in lightboost mode, no point in installing 121hz non-LB anyway. Why didn't I think of that??

+1


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Naw I don't play BF3. Happens on desktop too.
> That solution sounds PERFECT for what I need! I'm always in lightboost mode, no point in installing 121hz non-LB anyway. Why didn't I think of that??
> +1


Yep, It fixes the LightBoost 3-second blackout at the desktop, including during logging on/logging off.


----------



## jderbs

Surround and lightboost is still broken with 331.65. Just wanted to put that out there in case anyone was wondering.


----------



## Soulfire

Hey guys. I recently purchased a BenQ XL2420TE after lusting for a 120hz/144hz/Lightboost monitor for a good while, and after reading around a bit recently I'm trying to decide if I should return it for two different reasons.

The first is the arrival of G-SYNC, which seems to be a dramatically improved version of Lightboost, at least for my purposes. I don't have a super-powerful computer setup, so while I'll be above 60 in all games, I may not be consistently above 120; making G-SYNC likely a better option for me. Color quality is pretty important to me as well.

Which leads me also into my next reason, which would be returning the XL2420TE for the XL2720T which, thanks to vega, apparently has better color quality using Lightboost. I'm assuming it's still a consensus that if I spent the money on the XL2420TE and intend to use Lightboost, an XL2720T would be a better deal?

I guess my questions are:
1. Is the difference likely to be dramatic enough to wait at least half a year for a G-SYNC monitor (it'll be about half a year, right?). I'm really excited to have a Lightboost-esque monitor now, but I'll wait if it's a more logical decision.
2. If I decide to go with a Lightboost monitor now, my main concern with the XL2720T is the low-ish pixel density of a 27 inch 1080p monitor. Vega, you seem to take your PC gaming pretty seriously; do you notice that reduced pixel density at all? Or is it something that I'd just immediately get used to?

Thanks!


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Yep, It fixes the LightBoost 3-second blackout at the desktop, including during logging on/logging off.


Problem seems to be solved, No issues in the past two days. Will keep monitoring.


----------



## ridebird

No posts about Eizo Foris FG2421?
http://gaming.eizo.com/products/foris_fg2421/
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1383107475

Built in variant of Lightboost, VA-panel, very responsive. Probably going to get one as this is basically what I've been looking - 120hz and good colors.


----------



## mdrejhon

Eizo has announced a strobe backlight monitor!!!
http://www.eizo.com/global/products/foris/fg2421/index.html

Eizo Foris FG2421


It's a 240Hz VA monitor. It's really a 120Hz native monitor but uses a double-pass refresh and strobe backlight to flash towards the end of the second refresh.
Great 5000:1, great colors, low input lag, AND strobe mode! No crappy LightBoost color.
Works on any graphics cards; and at enthusiast gamer prices!

The manual confirms it is a strobe backlight technology.
It says so in the EIZO FG2421 manual, page 18.
Quote:


> To reduce motion blur
> Reduces image blurs (motion blurs) which occur when displaying animated images.
> Motion blur occurs when the eye recognizes liquid crystal transitions which come from changing screens
> (frames). When "Turbo 240" is set to "On", *the backlight flickers in sync with liquid crystal transition*1 so the
> change cannot be seen, thereby achieving clear images with less blur*.
> *1 This monitor converts 120 Hz input signals into 240 Hz within the panel, and doubles the refresh rate to draw two
> images per frame. At the first display the screen is refreshed, and at the second display the screen is displayed
> correctly. When "Turbo 240" is set to "On", the backlight is turned off for the first display.


If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it is a duck -- it's a strobe backlight, just like LightBoost (unofficial) and G-SYNC's upcoming low-persistence mode (official).

- It beat G-SYNC to official announcement
- LightBoost is unofficial.

So this is the first official modern vendor-sanctioned LightBoost-like mode intentionally to reduce motion blur. (I'm assuming Eizo is also sending AnandTech a review unit too. Eizo is also sending me a review unit as well). BENQ did come out with AMA-Z in year 2006 and others, which attempted to use backlight modulation to reduce motion blur, but those were horribly inefficient (Why? Explanation at TFT Central about how today's strobe backlights are more efficient).

2014 is an exciting year of low-persistence strobe-mode monitors!
LightBoost modes. G-SYNC modes. Turbo 240 modes. And possibly other brand names of strobe backlights.

When FG2421 arrives, I'll be benchmarking it against LightBoost.


----------



## mdrejhon

White paper about Eizo's strobe backlight:
http://gaming.eizo.com/wp-content/uploads/file/turbo240_whitepaper.pdf


----------



## CallsignVega

One thing I've noticed:










Those top and bottom bezels look nice and small. With the image quality and viewing angle improvements over TN, in combination with nice and small bezels, these would make great portrait Eyefinity/Surround monitors.

I just need to find out where to buy them! I'll start with three and maybe get 5 if I can find a way to get 5 way Eyefinity working with four 290X's. Not sure those MST Hubs can do 1920x1080 @ 120 Hz x 3.


----------



## Soulfire

How long most likely until this monitor is released?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soulfire*
> 
> How long most likely until this monitor is released?


It's already available for order/preorder now at some places linked in some of the reviews.

Morkai mentioned he's going to have one arriving next week, and Eizo said they're shipping my demo unit to me next week (knock on wood). I'll definitely be doing tests and reporting them to everyone. I may need a week of testing or so, before I post something substantial.


----------



## CYBER-SNIPA

Cool Eizo Foris FG2421 promo vid on YT:-






A good in-depth review can be found here:-

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1383107475

For Sellers and Distributors just select your country from the Global drop-down menu and then look in the bottom right corner:-

http://www.eizo.com/global/

They also sell direct in NA too!!!









Edit; Whoops my bad ridebird already posted the review link LOL I also posted them on Blur Busters too!!!


----------



## CallsignVega

Interesting, is this new BenQ model inferring that it has it's own built in 2D Lightboost?

http://www.benq.com/news/4357/1

Even though, it's still a TN panel so I am more excited for the new 240Hz Eizo.


----------



## CallsignVega

http://gaming.benq.bike.idv.tw/gaming-monitor/xl2720z

On another note; just pre-ordered three of these bad boys for my new super system build:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&tag=amazon120-20&location=http://www.amazon.com/FORIS-FG2421-BK-23-5-Inch-Screen-Monitor/dp/B00GBG5SPO/?tag%3Damazon120-20%26camp=1789%26creative=390957


----------



## bwana

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soulfire*
> 
> Hey guys. I recently purchased a BenQ XL2420TE after lusting for a 120hz/144hz/Lightboost monitor for a good while, and after reading around a bit recently I'm trying to decide if I should return it for two different reasons.
> 
> The first is the arrival of G-SYNC, which seems to be a dramatically improved version of Lightboost, at least for my purposes. I don't have a super-powerful computer setup, so while I'll be above 60 in all games, I may not be consistently above 120; making G-SYNC likely a better option for me. Color quality is pretty important to me as well.
> 
> Which leads me also into my next reason, which would be returning the XL2420TE for the XL2720T which, thanks to vega, apparently has better color quality using Lightboost. I'm assuming it's still a consensus that if I spent the money on the XL2420TE and intend to use Lightboost, an XL2720T would be a better deal?
> 
> I guess my questions are:
> 1. Is the difference likely to be dramatic enough to wait at least half a year for a G-SYNC monitor (it'll be about half a year, right?). I'm really excited to have a Lightboost-esque monitor now, but I'll wait if it's a more logical decision.
> 2. If I decide to go with a Lightboost monitor now, my main concern with the XL2720T is the low-ish pixel density of a 27 inch 1080p monitor. Vega, you seem to take your PC gaming pretty seriously; do you notice that reduced pixel density at all? Or is it something that I'd just immediately get used to?
> 
> Thanks!


I just returned a 2720T. I had it side by side with the 2420TE. Having a big 1080p monitor was painful for me. The large pixels made details less sharp and my eyes were constantly trying to focus. The colors of the 2720T are more saturated out of the box, but the brightness range of the 2420 TE is greater so you can dim it down a bunch if you dont use toasty x's utility to get lightboost strobing. I personally do not like strobing. The 144 hz on this monitor is great. With a high end graphic card I am getting >110 fps in bf4. Interestingly, I get 20-30 more fps in win 8.1 over win 7. Thanks to AMAZON, you can get them both and keep the one you want.


----------



## Remmib

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soulfire*
> 
> Hey guys. I recently purchased a BenQ XL2420TE after lusting for a 120hz/144hz/Lightboost monitor for a good while, and after reading around a bit recently I'm trying to decide if I should return it for two different reasons.
> 
> The first is the arrival of G-SYNC, which seems to be a dramatically improved version of Lightboost, at least for my purposes. I don't have a super-powerful computer setup, so while I'll be above 60 in all games, I may not be consistently above 120; making G-SYNC likely a better option for me. Color quality is pretty important to me as well.
> 
> Which leads me also into my next reason, which would be returning the XL2420TE for the XL2720T which, thanks to vega, apparently has better color quality using Lightboost. I'm assuming it's still a consensus that if I spent the money on the XL2420TE and intend to use Lightboost, an XL2720T would be a better deal?
> 
> I guess my questions are:
> 1. Is the difference likely to be dramatic enough to wait at least half a year for a G-SYNC monitor (it'll be about half a year, right?). I'm really excited to have a Lightboost-esque monitor now, but I'll wait if it's a more logical decision.
> 2. If I decide to go with a Lightboost monitor now, my main concern with the XL2720T is the low-ish pixel density of a 27 inch 1080p monitor. Vega, you seem to take your PC gaming pretty seriously; do you notice that reduced pixel density at all? Or is it something that I'd just immediately get used to?
> 
> Thanks!


Absolutely not worth returning the XL2420TE for the XL2720T for marginally better Lightboost color quality. The decrease in pixel density is a much larger negative than the positive increase in color.


----------



## CallsignVega

Doing some interpolation based off of the monitor pictures and dimensions, this should be a fairly accurate representation of their bezel sizes between the Eizo and the Asus VG248QE:



The side bezels on the Eizo actually appear to be wider than the Asus, but the top and bottom (great for us Portrait setup users), are about 20-30% smaller. The real proof will be seeing how small the chassis bezel are underneath the cosmetic bezel.


----------



## crun

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/monitors/1303405/eizo-foris-fg2421 rofl
Quote:


> The FG2421 uses a VA panel, and VA panels typically display less accurate colours than other types of panel technology


Quote:


> The Eizo Foris FG2421 is certainly an impressive gaming monitor, but our main concern is whether anyone will be able to take advantage of its high refresh rate fully. It'll be an enticing prospect for serious PC gamers who have very powerful graphics cards, but we suspect most gamers will be better off with the 120Hz BenQ XL2420T, which is much cheaper and has more inputs


what is this
i dont even


----------



## CallsignVega

They both take in a 120 Hz input, so how is one more demanding than the other? The display also has DP, DVI and HDMI, so how are inputs an "issue"? Is it missing a PS2 input or something? That review site seems a bit clueless lol.


----------



## PCM2

Although they're not articulating it very well at all, perhaps they are suggesting that with Turbo 240 you need to be attaining a refresh rate matching the frame rate to really take advantage. Whilst this is true for a regular 120Hz monitor as well the drop off in smoothness and incidence of noticeable stuttering is generally much more pronounced for a strobing system if the frame rate isn't matching the refresh.

... No you're right, that's way too intelligent for that website to have been suggesting.


----------



## HiTechPixel

SweClockers relased a review of the screen and surprise, surprise, they like it.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> SweClockers relased a review of the screen and surprise, surprise, they like it.


Yup, my favorite part:

I've also noticed in this pic:










The screen has a nice semi-gloss coating, so it should not need to be removed. Yet ANOTHER benefit over 120+ Hz Lightboost TN panels. Eizo are knocking this one out of the ballpark.


----------



## Pantsu

I'll test one next week against my GW2760HS for VA quality and S23A750D for 120 Hz quality. It looks promising, though I'll doubt I'll buy one since I'm looking for a 27" model that would suit my eyefinity needs. Hopefully BenQ will eventually release a 27" monitor with a similar panel.


----------



## uuhoever

I may be missing the point with a lot of the new tech going into these new monitors but isn't 120/144hz + lightboost pretty much all you need? Looking at the pictures of the little UFO on http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/60vs120vslb/ it seems that the image/blur is pretty darn clear; as clear as clear gets.

Why would it be worth paying extra ($150+) for G-Sync or 240hz? I read on the the G-sync tech and yes it makes sense but 120hz+lightboost looks like it's enough for 98% of gamers.


----------



## erocker

Any word on if and when we'll be seeing monitors with these features and with higher resolutions than 1080p?


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uuhoever*
> 
> I may be missing the point with a lot of the new tech going into these new monitors but isn't 120/144hz + lightboost pretty much all you need? Looking at the pictures of the little UFO on http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/60vs120vslb/ it seems that the image/blur is pretty darn clear; as clear as clear gets.
> 
> Why would it be worth paying extra ($150+) for G-Sync or 240hz? I read on the the G-sync tech and yes it makes sense but 120hz+lightboost looks like it's enough for 98% of gamers.


TN panel vs VA panel. World of difference.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uuhoever*
> 
> I may be missing the point with a lot of the new tech going into these new monitors but isn't 120/144hz + lightboost pretty much all you need? Looking at the pictures of the little UFO on http://www.blurbusters.com/faq/60vs120vslb/ it seems that the image/blur is pretty darn clear; as clear as clear gets.


There is room for improvement:
-- LightBoost degrades color quality
-- LightBoost is unofficial, it was intended primarily for 3D crosstalk reduction, people just began using it to eliminate 2D motion blur.
-- LightBoost is only available on TN panels.
-- LightBoost is locked to only 100-120Hz. It's like a CRT forced to operate only at 100-120Hz.

Whereas, all the other newer strobe backlights (G-SYNC strobing, EIZO Turbo240 strobing, and BENQ XL2720Z Blur Reduction Mode) improve on LightBoost in more than one way (one, two, three or all the above).


----------



## Remmib

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Yup, my favorite part:
> 
> I've also noticed in this pic:
> 
> [URL=http://www.sweclockers.com/image/red/2013/10/30/Eizo_FG2421_tangentbordsreflex.jpg?t=articleFull&k=535f2787/IMG]http://www.sweclockers.com/image/red/2013/10/30/Eizo_FG2421_tangentbordsreflex.jpg?t=articleFull&k=535f2787/IMG[/URL]] The screen has a nice semi-gloss coating, so it should not need to be removed. Yet ANOTHER benefit over 120+ Hz Lightboost TN panels. Eizo are knocking this one out of the ballpark.[/QUOTE]
> 
> I don't think I will ever understand your obsession with glossy.
> 
> They show dirt and dust more easily and reflection is annoying unless you are in a perfectly dark room.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Remmib*
> 
> I don't think I will ever understand your obsession with glossy.
> 
> They show dirt and dust more easily and reflection is annoying unless you are in a perfectly dark room.


Both of which are perfectly ammended in my case so I also prefer glossy over matte whenever possible. Though as Vega says, this coating seems to be good.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Remmib*
> 
> I don't think I will ever understand your obsession with glossy.
> 
> They show dirt and dust more easily and reflection is annoying unless you are in a perfectly dark room.


I wouldn't say an obsession, but why would you go out of your way and look for a full matte film simply to reduce your image quality dramatically? Just light control your room. This panel, and the new semi-gloss films on the 2013/2014 Dell's are the best compromise IMO and doesn't need to be removed.

Manufacturers are starting to wise up and get rid of that full matte crap that's been on IPS and all these 120+ Hz TN monitors forever.


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Remmib*
> 
> I don't think I will ever understand your obsession with glossy.
> 
> They show dirt and dust more easily and reflection is annoying unless you are in a perfectly dark room.
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't say an obsession, but why would you go out of your way and look for a full matte film simply to reduce your image quality dramatically? Just light control your room. This panel, and the new semi-gloss films on the 2013/2014 Dell's are the best compromise IMO and doesn't need to be removed.
> 
> Manufacturers are starting to wise up and get rid of that full matte crap that's been on IPS and all these 120+ Hz TN monitors forever.
Click to expand...

The semi-matte coating is a thing of beauty, no graininess and no reflections. Much better than glossy, though I've never seen the old overly-aggressive matte so I can't say how bad that was either.

I think Remnib was referring to the semi-matte coating anyway. I've seen a lot of people on the Qnix/XStar threads choose glossy, when the semi-matte solution is perfect (and at the very least 100 times better than glossy).


----------



## Remmib

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I wouldn't say an obsession, but why would you go out of your way and look for a full matte film simply to reduce your image quality dramatically? Just light control your room. This panel, and the new semi-gloss films on the 2013/2014 Dell's are the best compromise IMO and doesn't need to be removed.
> 
> Manufacturers are starting to wise up and get rid of that full matte crap that's been on IPS and all these 120+ Hz TN monitors forever.


Well, maybe you're right. I guess I just haven't paid much attention to the grain on my XL2420T.

I wonder how you would rate the matte finish on the Qnix/X-Star monitors. It certainly seems more reflective and less grainy than the BenQ.


----------



## SpartanVXL

Bleh, just bought the Asus VG248QE and Eizo comes out with a beast of a monitor









Oh well, I can justify dropping $500 on the Asus since even if the Eizo did come to NZ it would probably cost a grand







.


----------



## dmikester1

And I was all but set on using my birthday/Christmas money to get a QNIX, then I read about these new technologies coming out. Am I right in that I do not see any monitors that are compatible with these new motion technologies that are 1440p?
Thanks
Mike


----------



## Remmib

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmikester1*
> 
> And I was all but set on using my birthday/Christmas money to get a QNIX, then I read about these new technologies coming out. Am I right in that I do not see any monitors that are compatible with these new motion technologies that are 1440p?
> Thanks
> Mike


That is correct.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmikester1*
> 
> And I was all but set on using my birthday/Christmas money to get a QNIX, then I read about these new technologies coming out. Am I right in that I do not see any monitors that are compatible with these new motion technologies that are 1440p?
> Thanks
> Mike


As of right now, but Scribby is trying to work something out with NVIDIA for their 1440P monitor line. 2014 may prove to be interesting!


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> As of right now, but Scribby is trying to work something out with NVIDIA for their 1440P monitor line. 2014 may prove to be interesting!


That would be great if Scribby could pull off 1440p G-SYNC.
Especially with upcoming DisplayPort 2.0 that allows 1440p at 120Hz without overclocking.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> That would be great if Scribby could pull off 1440p G-SYNC.
> Especially with upcoming DisplayPort 2.0 that allows 1440p at 120Hz without overclocking.


I think you mean HDMI 2.0, as DP 1.2 can do 1440P @ 120 Hz already.







The bandwidth of HDMI 2.0 and DP1.2 are almost identical.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I think you mean HDMI 2.0, as DP 1.2 can do 1440P @ 120 Hz already.


Not over single channel.
That's why you need tiled 4K 60Hz on the Sharp PN-K321.
So to do 1440p 120Hz with DisplayPort 1.2, you would need tiled 2560x1440 (e.g. subdivided into 1280x1440 times two screens).

We need DisplayPort 2.0 to simplify things. Or HDMI 2.0, of course.


----------



## CallsignVega

Current monitors (like 4K) using DP 1.2 in "multi-stream transport mode" is a function of the lack of transmission controllers to handle that bandwidth in one stream. MST was designed for daisy chaining displays. SST (single stream) can use all four data layers. The data layers are independent from MST. Handling all that bandwidth in one stream = expensive chip. Handling all that bandwidth with multiple lesser chips = cheap.

MST is just a "work-around" way to get a high bandwidth display to work with current TCon's. It's not a limitation of the DP 1.2 spec, and NVIDIA have stated 4K monitors in SST (not requiring Eyefinity/Surround) mode will be out late 2014/early 2015 once the proper chips are designed and implemented.

The same thing happened with HDMI 1.4. It's had enough bandwidth to run 1080P @ 120 Hz forever, yet they never designed a TCon to handle the bandwidth. Ever wonder why all these 120Hz 1080P monitors never could use 120 Hz mode with HDMI even though the spec has enough bandwidth for it? They just recently designed a TCon for 1080p @ 120 Hz (mainly a push from the projector industry), years and years after the spec came out. Often the TCon chip manufacturers (the lack of demand, market whatever) are the ones holding up greater bandwidth us high end users need.

EDIT: Thought I'd put in the reference as I know people may ask this question in the future.

Lars Weinand from NVIDIA: "You're right about SST. Problem is, there are no panel display controllers today who can handle DP60 Hz at 4K resolution. This is why all panel makers are using MST today to get to [email protected] It's expected that such controllers will be ready sometime next year for prototyping. So we think it will take until end 2014 or 2015 until we see SST solutions with 60Hz at 4K res."


----------



## ieliulanqi

thanks to LightBoost2 strobe backlight which apparently also can be forced to work in 2D (not just 3D).


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Random question, could you run G-SYNC and Lightboost at once on something like the Asus VG248QE?

Just curious


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Random question, could you run G-SYNC and Lightboost at once on something like the Asus VG248QE?
> Just curious


Not currently. Variable-rate strobing will be a difficult engineering challenge. Not impossible (see variable rate strobing algorithm), but difficult. John Carmack did talk about it in his YouTube. 



...But it will take time, I think.


----------



## CHeNeRiC

So I currently have a GTX 570 right now. Running CSGO, I can run an average 200 FPS. I cap it at 120 for lightboost.

I have multiple monitors and for some reason it lags if I have anything open in the background like even a single chrome browser. I have 16gb ram with an i7 processor, so I know it's not my other specs other than my video card. Is anyone else experiencing this with their lower end video card. Lightboost article recommends GTX 780 or higher, but I'm guessing it's for more graphic heavy games.

Can anyone share how their experience is with the GTX 660 or 760? I'm planning to upgrade my video card since the GTX 570 can only handle 2 monitors at once and I plan to run 4 monitors (TV, 2 ips, 144hz monitor). I don't plan to play games on all 4. Just like the multi tasking ability.


----------



## Soulfire

So using Lightboost at 10% with my XL2420TE, and viewing the Eiffel Tower at 1440 pixels per second, there's a slight ghosting trail best visible behind the eiffel tower because of the contrast between light and dark but that's about all, it seems smooth in all other areas. Is that about what's to be expected?

It's pretty awesome regardless, I just want to make sure it's working at its best for me.

PS: A quick question to you guys; it feels like my BenQ is ever so slightly darker on the left side of the screen than the right. Is there any explanation for this issue?

PPS: Anxiously awaiting reviews on that EIZO.


----------



## jderbs

Playing bf4 in surround and needless to say the game is very hard to run over 80-90 fps on high settings. Am I better off running 144hz or lightboost @ 100hz?


----------



## writer21

With that setup you should get at least 100fps min. I have sli 670 with 3570k @ 4.6 and I drop to 80s-90s . Turn post quality and effects to low everything else ultra and use 2x msaa and low fxaa. Image quality will be pretty much the same with lot less jaggies


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soulfire*
> 
> So using Lightboost at 10% with my XL2420TE, and viewing the Eiffel Tower at 1440 pixels per second, there's a slight ghosting trail best visible behind the eiffel tower because of the contrast between light and dark but that's about all, it seems smooth in all other areas. Is that about what's to be expected?


The TestUFO Eiffel Tower test, is a very good strobe crosstalk test.

Strobe crosstalk creates the faint 3D crosstalk and the faint 2D sharp ghost effect (same intensity as 3D crosstalk). It's the very faint, remnant LCD refresh from the previous refresh, when the strobe backlight flashes on the current refresh, usually less than 1% intensity. If you lower your contrast down slightly, this strobe crosstalk effect may reduce/disappear. But most of this time, the crosstalk is invisible.
Quote:


> PS: A quick question to you guys; it feels like my BenQ is ever so slightly darker on the left side of the screen than the right. Is there any explanation for this issue?


For this one, not sure. LCD panels are being pushed to their limits, in order to be compatible with strobe backlights.

There are numerous side effects that occur with LightBoost, though is currently being improved upon with the small boom of next-generation strobe backlights (EIZO Turbo240 strobe mode, BENQ XL2720Z Blur Reduction strobe mode, and G-SYNC's optional strobe mode), all of which have better picture quality than LightBoost, and become actual marketing features.
Quote:


> PPS: Anxiously awaiting reviews on that EIZO.


Yes. I'm also receiving one, and will be posting a review, too.


----------



## senna89

We are waiting your review









Have you also other gaming monitors to compare ?


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> With that setup you should get at least 100fps min. I have sli 670 with 3570k @ 4.6 and I drop to 80s-90s . Turn post quality and effects to low everything else ultra and use 2x msaa and low fxaa. Image quality will be pretty much the same with lot less jaggies


Turning off msaa alone netted me 30 frames. I'm fine with just using FXAA in the nvidia control panel.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jderbs*
> 
> Playing bf4 in surround and needless to say the game is very hard to run over 80-90 fps on high settings. Am I better off running 144hz or lightboost @ 100hz?


Yes, Lightboost at 100Hz is still far better than 144 Hz non-lightboost. And its a much easier FPS to maintain.


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Yes, Lightboost at 100Hz is still far better than 144 Hz non-lightboost. And its a much easier FPS to maintain.


I know it's better I'm asking if it's better if I can't maintain more than 85 to 90 frames ?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jderbs*
> 
> I know it's better I'm asking if it's better if I can't maintain more than 85 to 90 frames ?


For borderline situations, it's a matter of personal preference.

Some people still like LightBoost at 60fps, while others hate it at anything less than [email protected] (since stutter visibility is amplified by the motion clarity of strobing).


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> For borderline situations, it's a matter of personal preference.
> 
> Some people still like LightBoost at 60fps, while others hate it at anything less than [email protected] (since stutter visibility is amplified by the motion clarity of strobing).


It's funny that you mention that. I was playing BF4 last night on lowest settings (as an experiment)

On all ultra with AA and AO off, I was getting 83min 135 avg 188 max fps (1080p)
With all settings are low, my minimum FPS was 127 (1080p). Avg and max fps were obviously ridiculously high. This setup noticeably *felt* better overall, but it could be placebo. It also raped my GPU overclock very fast, I had to tone it down a bit in mem clocks
I don't really care about GFX, so I might settle for whatever nets me 110-120FPS min in all scenarios. Could prob pull medium at 1350Mhz clock.

I was a bit surprised, BF4 on lowest settings looks better then CS:GO maxed.


----------



## crun

http://www.purepc.pl/monitory/test_monitora_eizo_foris_fg2421_matryca_va_i_240_hz?page=0%2C6 polish review

they are kinda dissapointed







input lag is high (19ms with turbo), frequent artifacts with turbo, 89% srgb coverage


----------



## CallsignVega

Hmm, interesting. Sounds like the write-up was a mixed review, yet they gave it a 4.5 outta 5 which is pretty darn high if you ask me.

Trying to decipher these input lag readings:



So the CRT (red) starts, showing 1ms or less phosphor peak glow. Anyone know what those very short "pre-flashes" are? From my estimation of the backlight strobe, it is 2.7ms. But what brightness did he do the test at? That matters. And where did he postion the oscilloscope? Mark, it will be interesting to see your tests compared.

Flatpanels HD:

"Lastly, we just wanted to include a quick note about input lag. Eizo says "1.5 frame of input lag or less", which we are inclined to believe. Our testing gave us a small range of measurements in the very low end of milliseconds close to zero, which is probably due to small inaccuracies with our testing equipment. Input lag is virtually zero based on our testing. This is obviously great for gaming, but just compared side-by-side to a typical Dell office monitor it is actually noticeable when moving the mouse around on the desktop."

That is quite a bit different than 19ms. I can't wait for the TFTCentral and Blurbusters reviews.

One thing I did find amazing is this chart:



In Turbo240, it can do all the way from retina scorching 282 cd down to 45 cd. All with incredible contrast ratio numbers. Those are like ten times better contrast ratios than current monitors in Lightboost mode.


----------



## mdrejhon

Now that I am seeing the graphs, that's some damn interesting data.
Blur Busters plan to do measurement graphs similar to this, as well.

I can come to the conclusion:
-- Roughly as good as LightBoost=100%, but with the advantage of ZERO color degradation (full VA color and contrast).
-- Easily predicted ~66% reduction in motion blur relative to regular LCD 120Hz because dominant strobewidth is 1/3rd as long as a refresh cycle
-- Easily predicted ~83% reduction in motion blur relative to regular LCD 60Hz (half as much as 120Hz).
-- There will probably be a faint double-ghost image caused by the pre-flash.

You got me too; I wonder why a pre-flash is being done. The pre-flash is not necessary, but it might be being done in order to reduce the sensation of flicker. Perhaps they do that to keep the "240Hz" claim, since this does appear to mean that the backlight is being flashed 240 times a second, but it's only an ultra-tiny flash. The image quality would almost definitely be better without the pre-flash, but the pre-flash may be there to reduce the appearance of flicker. Maybe it's also done as a differentiation from the FDF2405W.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Hmm, interesting. Sounds like the write-up was a mixed review, yet they gave it a 4.5 outta 5 which is pretty darn high if you ask me.
> 
> Trying to decipher these input lag readings:
> 
> 
> 
> So the CRT (red) starts, showing 1ms or less phosphor peak glow. Anyone know what those very short "pre-flashes" are? From my estimation of the backlight strobe, it is 2.7ms. But what brightness did he do the test at? That matters. And where did he postion the oscilloscope? Mark, it will be interesting to see your tests compared.


I'm not sure. I'd love to know if brightness shortens the strobe peaks (no effect on motion blur), or shortens strobe length (major effect on motion blur). I will definitely measure effect of brightness on the strobes.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> One thing I did find amazing is this chart:
> 
> In Turbo240, it can do all the way from retina scorching 282 cd down to 45 cd. All with incredible contrast ratio numbers. Those are like ten times better contrast ratios than current monitors in Lightboost mode.


No kidding. That's a wide brightness range. Vastly better color quality than LightBoost, just by staring at the numbers.

From looking at their PixPerAn images, the faint double ghost effect is not worse than a VG278H adjusted to 90% Contrast. So the double-ghost effect should probably not be objectionable to most 27" LightBoost users (yourself included). Imagine LightBoost=100%, but with a much wider brightness range, full contrast, VA color quality -- all the LightBoost benefits without the LightBoost disadvantages (except you keep the LightBoost-like input lag). Strobe crosstalk haters (Double-sharp-ghost) using VG248QE may be slightly disappointed, but we know that I prefer my VG278H (Better colors despite slightly more strobe crosstalk) over my XL2411T, and just by looking at the data, the FG2421 will easily beat VG278H.

The question is whether we can get motion clarity of LightBoost=10% (strobe length 1.4ms) by lowering brightness.


----------



## CallsignVega

Yup, I am right with you. Will reduced brightness = better motion clarity like regular Lightboost monitors? Since this is mainly a DC voltage adjustment monitor with some PWM kicked in at the low end, in theory they could keep the strobe length pretty much the same and decrease brightness at the same time.

I'd of course like a shorter strobe, but even if the strobes are ~2.7 ms, it isn't a deal breaker with all the VA benefits.

The second big thing is can you reproduce the input lag numbers? Do you have CRT? The Flatpanels HD review and the Polish review are quite different in their input lag assessments.

My monitors won't arrive until Friday. Even though I don't have a CRT anymore or a fancy oscilloscope, I will be commenting on the viewing angles, AR film, subjective picture quality versus the XL2720T, MPRT and other ghosting motion clarity tests via your site, disassembling the monitor to measure internal bezel gaps and take pictures of the chassis and electronics and figure out ways to mount them for multi-monitor configs.


----------



## jeri

hm waiting for your review vega


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I'd of course like a shorter strobe, but even if the strobes are ~2.7 ms, it isn't a deal breaker with all the VA benefits.


Agreed. I'll take 2.7ms with great IPS-like colors and viewing angles. The lack of LightBoost=10% clarity would bump about half a star off any review, since LightBoost=10% vs 100% is fairly small. The chasm between regular 120Hz (8.3ms of blurring) and 144Hz (6.9ms of blurring) and strobed is much larger.

Meanwhile, the review viewing angle tests look really good -- compared to TN. IPS users might say ho hum, but this is a 120Hz strobed monitor -- with viewing angles much closer to IPS.

The photos/reviews I've been reading/seeing, squarely places VA closer to IPS for viewing angles:

*IPS* <- - - *VA* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -> *TN*

Meaning, VA is closer to IPS in terms of viewing angle, and actually exceeds the worst IPS panels in viewing angles. If this is the case, Blur Busters is impressed in advance of having received our unit. 120Hz has been in "TN hell" for several years, and this easily breaks out of the old TN mold. We receive our unit in two days, and we'll need about two or three weeks of tests before publishing our review. We may "meter out" our monitor review in two or more stages at a time.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

I just want more information on this 19ms input lag....

If this display is really 19ms of input lag, what the hell is my Overlord Tempest X270C doing?

Why was only one review site, that I seen, coming up with such a huge number on this display?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> I just want more information on this 19ms input lag....
> 
> *LightBoost ASUS VG278H, running in 120Hz mode*
> TOP = 11ms
> CENTER = 11ms
> BOTTOM = 11ms
> AVERAGE = 11ms (+4ms over non-LightBoost 120Hz)
> 
> As you can see, LightBoost has less average input lag than 60Hz, but more input lag than 120Hz. And because the whole screen flashes all at once with the strobe backlight, the input latency for the whole screen is identical (relative to timing of beginning of scanout out of the computer output).
> 
> So as you can understand, measuring input lag results is very tricky to do, and only a few people (myself included) understand the input lag behaviors of strobe backlights, and know how to measure input lag from strobe backlights. SMTT methods *do not work reliably with strobe backlights*. You must use input lag measuring equipment such as Leo Bodnar Lag Tester, or the Blur Busters Input Lag Tester.
> 
> If this display is really 19ms of input lag, what the hell is my Overlord Tempest X270C doing?
> 
> Why was only one review site, that I seen, coming up with such a huge number on this display?


Input lag is a bit challenging to measure on strobe backlight displays. Top edge and bottom edge of screen have different input lag behaviors in strobed mode versus non-strobed modes. Different websites measure input lag differently. For example, this is what my input lag measuring equipment shows:

_...In the Leo Bodnar style (but not measured from a Leo), and rounded off to the nearest millisecond..._
_...these input lag times are relative to beginning of scanout of a frame from graphics card output..._
TOP = Earliest. Same as CRT differential (SMTT style).
CENTER = often matches average input lag
BOTTOM = often equals worst case input lag

*Non-LightBoost ASUS VG278H, running in 60Hz mode*
TOP = 4ms
CENTER = 12ms
BOTTOM = 20ms
AVERAGE = 12ms

*Non-LightBoost ASUS VG278H, running in 120Hz mode*
TOP = 3ms
CENTER = 7ms
BOTTOM = 11ms
AVERAGE = 7ms

*LightBoost ASUS VG278H, running in 120Hz mode*
TOP = 11ms
CENTER = 11ms
BOTTOM = 11ms
AVERAGE = 11ms (+4ms over non-LightBoost 120Hz)

As you can see, LightBoost has less average input lag than 60Hz, but more input lag than 120Hz. And because the whole screen flashes all at once with the strobe backlight, the input latency for the whole screen is identical (relative to timing of beginning of scanout out of the computer output).

So as you can understand, measuring input lag results is very tricky to do, and only a few people (myself included) understand how to measure input lag from strobe backlights.

The Blur Busters Input Lag Tester device will be publicly available this coming winter...


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Input lag is a bit challenging to measure on strobe backlight displays. Top edge and bottom edge of screen have different input lag behaviors in strobed mode versus non-strobed modes. Different websites measure input lag differently. For example, this is what my input lag measuring equipment shows:
> 
> _...In the Leo Bodnar style (but not measured from a Leo), and rounded off to the nearest millisecond..._
> _...these input lag times are relative to beginning of scanout of a frame from graphics card output..._
> TOP = Earliest. Same as CRT differential (SMTT style).
> CENTER = often matches average input lag
> BOTTOM = often equals worst case input lag
> 
> *Non-LightBoost ASUS VG278H, running in 60Hz mode*
> TOP = 4ms
> CENTER = 12ms
> BOTTOM = 20ms
> AVERAGE = 12ms
> 
> *Non-LightBoost ASUS VG278H, running in 120Hz mode*
> TOP = 3ms
> CENTER = 7ms
> BOTTOM = 11ms
> AVERAGE = 7ms
> 
> *LightBoost ASUS VG278H, running in 120Hz mode*
> TOP = 11ms
> CENTER = 11ms
> BOTTOM = 11ms
> AVERAGE = 11ms (+4ms over non-LightBoost 120Hz)
> 
> As you can see, LightBoost has less average input lag than 60Hz, but more input lag than 120Hz. And because the whole screen flashes all at once with the strobe backlight, the input latency for the whole screen is identical (relative to timing of beginning of scanout out of the computer output).
> 
> So as you can understand, measuring input lag results is very tricky to do, and only a few people (myself included) understand how to measure input lag from strobe backlights.
> 
> The Blur Busters Input Lag Tester device will be publicly available this coming winter...


So, according to the one site, the Eizo is at almost double the input lag of the Asus as you see it, worst case number. I am not a monitor guy, my knowledge is in the box so to speak, so to myself that seems like a very big difference.

Damn, now I am REALLY curious as to what this Tempest is...


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> So, according to the one site, the Eizo is at almost double the input lag of the Asus as you see it, worst case number. I am not a monitor guy, my knowledge is in the box so to speak, so to myself that seems like a very big difference.
> 
> Damn, now I am REALLY curious as to what this Tempest is...


Don't forget that humans can react faster during strobing rather than non-strobed, for certain situations that forces eye-tracking. High speed flybys. Circle strafing. Fast characters (e.g. Scout in TF2). Tracking eyes on items while turning. A lot of that benefits from zero motion blur of strobe backlights.

There are *improved Battlefield 3 scores* (despite higher lag), because lack of motion blur decreases human brain lag, more than compensating for a few milliseconds extra input lag.

Not everyone benefits, but a lot of people benefits massively from faster reaction time to CRT motion clarity, out-compensating the input lag of strobing. Several say it feels like less input lag, but your mileage may vary. The proof of better scores shows that monitor input lag is not the whole story. Other factors such as bad stutters, bad motion blur, etc, can interfere with human reaction times. And, better brightness and contrast (VA 5000:1) can also provide a competitive advantage that's worth adding 1ms or 2ms (or more, depending on human) of input latency.

Mind you, it varies from human to human. It won't help humans who only stare stationary at crosshairs (e.g. staring at the center crosshairs only, all the time, using only peripheral vision for enemies not directly in front of your crosshairs). Strobe backlights only help eye-tracking-based motion blur when your eyes are moving around relative to the display itself. That's the "CRT effect" known by long time CRT users; the lack of tracking based motion blur. Only recently became available on strobe-backlight LCD's (e.g. LightBoost, Turbo 240, BENQ new XL2720Z Blur Reduction Mode, and other similiar strobe backlights).

Sometimes input lag is measured at different parts of the chain -- e.g. from pressing a button to seeing pixels with eyes. That's whole-chain input lag, rather than display lag ("input lag" vs "display lag"). Even a loss of framerate adds to input lag -- e.g. running at 60fps instead of 120fps, can add an average of 8.3ms of latency, due to the longer GPU render times (Each frame taking 16.7ms to render, instead of 8.3ms to render). And going SLI/CrossFire doesn't always help input lag much, because lots of games now use alternate-frame rendering, it's simply parallizing 16.7ms of rendering on separate GPU's, rather than reducing each frame rendertimes to 8.3ms. That's why 120fps on a single GPU has less input lag than 120fps accomplished by two slower GPU's in SLI/CrossFire (in alternate-frame-rendering mode). Anandtech has a great diagrams of the input lag chain here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2803/7

If you measure whole-chain input latency including GPU frame rendering lag, and run the same GPU's: 2560x1440 at 60fps, already have WAY more input lag than FG2421 users running 1920x1200 at 120fps, because the half frame rate doubles the GPU's share of contributing to input lag. The same GPU's capable of 120fps on FG2421 often only runs 60fps on 2560x1440p. Now if you're running a Titan and run at full 120fps at 1440p on a single GPU, then it might be a different story.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Don't forget that humans can react faster during strobing rather than non-strobed, for certain situations that forces eye-tracking. High speed flybys. Circle strafing. Fast characters (e.g. Scout in TF2). Tracking eyes on items while turning. A lot of that benefits from zero motion blur of strobe backlights.
> 
> There are *improved Battlefield 3 scores* (despite higher lag), because lack of motion blur decreases human brain lag, more than compensating for a few milliseconds extra input lag.
> 
> Not everyone benefits, but a lot of people benefits massively from faster reaction time to CRT motion clarity, out-compensating the input lag of strobing. Several say it feels like less input lag, but your mileage may vary. The proof of better scores shows that monitor input lag is not the whole story. Other factors such as bad stutters, bad motion blur, etc, can interfere with human reaction times. And, better brightness and contrast (VA 5000:1) can also provide a competitive advantage that's worth adding 1ms or 2ms (or more, depending on human) of input latency.
> 
> Mind you, it varies from human to human. It won't help humans who only stare stationary at crosshairs (e.g. staring at the center crosshairs only, all the time, using only peripheral vision for enemies not directly in front of your crosshairs). Strobe backlights only help eye-tracking-based motion blur when your eyes are moving around relative to the display itself. That's the "CRT effect" known by long time CRT users; the lack of tracking based motion blur. Only recently became available on strobe-backlight LCD's (e.g. LightBoost, Turbo 240, BENQ new XL2720Z Blur Reduction Mode, and other similiar strobe backlights).
> 
> Sometimes input lag is measured at different parts of the chain -- e.g. from pressing a button to seeing pixels with eyes. That's whole-chain input lag, rather than display lag ("input lag" vs "display lag"). Even a loss of framerate adds to input lag -- e.g. running at 60fps instead of 120fps, can add an average of 8.3ms of latency, due to the longer GPU render times (Each frame taking 16.7ms to render, instead of 8.3ms to render). And going SLI/CrossFire doesn't always help input lag much, because lots of games now use alternate-frame rendering, it's simply parallizing 16.7ms of rendering on separate GPU's, rather than reducing each frame rendertimes to 8.3ms. That's why 120fps on a single GPU has less input lag than 120fps accomplished by two slower GPU's in SLI/CrossFire (in alternate-frame-rendering mode). Anandtech has a great diagrams of the input lag chain here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2803/7
> 
> If you measure whole-chain input latency including GPU frame rendering lag, and run the same GPU's: 2560x1440 at 60fps, already have WAY more input lag than FG2421 users running 1920x1200 at 120fps, because the half frame rate doubles the GPU's share of contributing to input lag. The same GPU's capable of 120fps on FG2421 often only runs 60fps on 2560x1440p. Now if you're running a Titan and run at full 120fps at 1440p on a single GPU, then it might be a different story.


Hmmm...

7970 in Crossfire at 120Hz on my display. Meh, pretty sure this display would be better all around with both input lag, and of course the lack of blurring.


----------



## senna89

Anyone have Eizo now ?


----------



## ridebird

I have received my Eizo today, and unfortunately it comes with severe light bleed along the edges (top, left, right and bottom) for about half a centimeter in to the screen. It is not visible against pitch black nor bright white, but any other color and the edges light up like nuts. It is very annoying and I did not pay a lot of money for this screen to have this error.

I have sent in a service request as it is unacceptable for a screen of this cost and supposed quality to have this issue. There are three others that have reported the same error on Sweclockers.

I would wait if you want to buy the Eizo as it seems as it's rather rushed. For the strobing/smoothness thing though, I can confirm that it is flawless and very smooth coming from a 60hz IPS. I honestly do not remember how a CRT felt, but it is pretty spectacular playing BF4 in 90-120 FPS. Very, very smooth.


----------



## Remmib

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ridebird*
> 
> I have received my Eizo today, and unfortunately it comes with severe light bleed along the edges (top, left, right and bottom) for about half a centimeter in to the screen. It is not visible against pitch black nor bright white, but any other color and the edges light up like nuts. It is very annoying and I did not pay a lot of money for this screen to have this error.
> 
> I have sent in a service request as it is unacceptable for a screen of this cost and supposed quality to have this issue. There are three others that have reported the same error on Sweclockers.
> 
> I would wait if you want to buy the Eizo as it seems as it's rather rushed. For the strobing/smoothness thing though, I can confirm that it is flawless and very smooth coming from a 60hz IPS. I honestly do not remember how a CRT felt, but it is pretty spectacular playing BF4 in 90-120 FPS. Very, very smooth.


That's disappointing.

Definitely don't settle for anything less than a flawless screen.


----------



## ridebird

As you can see here it's quite severe in greenish/blueish scenes:
http://i.imgur.com/6nj8c08.jpg

That's with brightness 32 (quite low) and somewhat calibrated colors based on what I think looks okay. It is with gamma 2.4 though as I found it more appealing coming from an IPS.

Impossible to see on completely dark scenes, or completely bright. Black depth is incredible on the screen otherwise, but anything but absolute black shows up like this


----------



## CHeNeRiC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ridebird*
> 
> As you can see here it's quite severe in greenish/blueish scenes:
> http://i.imgur.com/6nj8c08.jpg
> 
> That's with brightness 32 (quite low) and somewhat calibrated colors based on what I think looks okay. It is with gamma 2.4 though as I found it more appealing coming from an IPS.
> 
> Impossible to see on completely dark scenes, or completely bright. Black depth is incredible on the screen otherwise, but anything but absolute black shows up like this


Pretty sure this is what you call backlight bleeding. It sucks. Hopefully they will see it as a defect and fix that. Chances are all their models are going to be like that.


----------



## ridebird

Yup, unfortunately lots of reported cases of this on various forums.. Please note it is not all though, some have been perfectly fine.

Eizo called me now and said that while some - some - BLB in the edges is normal for this panel, my case was extreme, and I would get a new one if the error was reproduced when it arrived to them. Hoping for a perfect one.

Going to be really ****ty going back to 60hz for the weekend.


----------



## jeri

lol thats looks very terrible, but hey its a gaming monitor afterall they say


----------



## ridebird

Well, a gaming monitor doesn't imply extreme backlight bleeding. My Benq 24" 1080p that I bought for like 200 bucks in 2009 looked more uniform in the backlight then my super expensive Eizo.

Apart from this, for being 120hz and ridiculously quick and input lag free, the colors are great. I prefer them to my decent IPS (Dell u2311) as the blacks, whites and deeper, darker, colors are much deeper. It is lacking a bit in color depth in comparison when it comes to reds, yellows and more bright colors. Still, it looks great in even super colorful games such as Dota.


----------



## jeri

hm yeah, i would teturn it.... its def some epic backlight bleeding there


----------



## jderbs

LB + Surround still isn't fixed in 331.65 FYI


----------



## CallsignVega

Just got done reading the great TFTCentral review. They really liked it. Can't wait to get mine tomorrow!

Looks like they measured the pulse time of 2.1 ms (all brightness levels). Technically, a 10% Lightboost monitor with a 1.4ms strobe would have ever so slightly better motion. The Eizo comes in at around the 65% Lightboost brightness level of motion clarity, but destroying all current monitors in image quality .


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Just got done reading the great TFTCentral review. They really liked it. Can't wait to get mine tomorrow!
> Looks like they measured the pulse time of 2.1 ms (all brightness levels). Technically, a 10% Lightboost monitor with a 1.4ms strobe would have ever so slightly better motion. The Eizo comes in at around the 65% Lightboost brightness level of motion clarity, but destroying all current monitors in image quality .


I agree with this assessment.

BTW, the

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/398563003823427586 [twitter] at Blur Busters today.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jderbs*
> 
> LB + Surround still isn't fixed in 331.65 FYI


That doesn't sound good. I'll bump up that thread at NVIDIA.


----------



## l88bastar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> I agree with this assessment.
> 
> BTW, the
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/398563003823427586 [twitter] at Blur Busters today.


Got my FG2421 today and I love it! I still like my FW900 better, but for an all around modern display that does not break your back I have to give it to the Eizo.

For all around value I still have to give it to the mighty Asus VG248QE.....but with that said, I am now selling my two pristine Asus VG248QE "Glossy" displays


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ridebird*
> 
> I have received my Eizo today, and unfortunately it comes with severe light bleed along the edges (top, left, right and bottom) for about half a centimeter in to the screen. It is not visible against pitch black nor bright white, but any other color and the edges light up like nuts. It is very annoying and I did not pay a lot of money for this screen to have this error.
> 
> I have sent in a service request as it is unacceptable for a screen of this cost and supposed quality to have this issue. There are three others that have reported the same error on Sweclockers.
> 
> I would wait if you want to buy the Eizo as it seems as it's rather rushed. For the strobing/smoothness thing though, I can confirm that it is flawless and very smooth coming from a 60hz IPS. I honestly do not remember how a CRT felt, but it is pretty spectacular playing BF4 in 90-120 FPS. Very, very smooth.


Ok but the ghosting compared to IPS is much less visible or the difference is not so evident ?


----------



## CHeNeRiC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l88bastar*
> 
> Got my FG2421 today and I love it! I still like my FW900 better, but for an all around modern display that does not break your back I have to give it to the Eizo.
> 
> For all around value I still have to give it to the mighty Asus VG248QE.....but with that said, I am now selling my two pristine Asus VG248QE "Glossy" displays


You haven't even tried g-sync yet!


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quick question, does lightboost 120/144Hz work over a DVI-D to HDMI?


----------



## jderbs

I think HDMI is only capable of 60hz ... could be wrong


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Quick question, does lightboost 120/144Hz work over a DVI-D to HDMI?


No, why would you want it to? Every monitor in this thread has a DL-DVI port as far as I know. If you are talking about the GPU HDMI port, those can be overclocked.


----------



## l88bastar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CHeNeRiC*
> 
> You haven't even tried g-sync yet!


I have never been a fan of Nsync. Timberlake's hair just never did anything for me.


----------



## CallsignVega

All three of my Eizo's were delivered today. This is the first display since my CRT's that has a "warm up period" to it.. more on that later. It just passed my Falcon 4 BMS fly-by test better than any Lightboost monitor I've tested. Color me impressed. More testing to do!


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> All three of my Eizo's were delivered today. This is the first display since my CRT's that has a "warm up period" to it.. more on that later. It just passed my Falcon 4 BMS fly-by test better than any Lightboost monitor I've tested. Color me impressed. More testing to do!


That's great to hear! Can't wait for your full review on it.


----------



## CallsignVega

Teaser

Gloss modified XL2720T on the left (pretty much the best looking Lightboost monitor) vs Eizo FG2421 on the right. Both are back-light strobing.



















Did someone say viewing angles?


----------



## Scorpion667

You're killing me.

GIEF US MOAR!!!

I've been silently very excited for this monitor.


----------



## shedokan

is 240Hz = LB at 100% performance? If yes, is it same dim/low brightness? or just like any 144Hz mode where you can get extremely high brightness?


----------



## gzboli

Brightness from TFT Central:

Turbo 240 Off: 40 - 386 cd/m2
Turbo 240 On: 41 - 257 cd/m2

For reference, VG248QE using LB 100% brightness is 87 cd/m2


----------



## jeri

iiii love dat angle....just take my money...and color...


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Teaser
> 
> Gloss modified XL2720T on the left (pretty much the best looking Lightboost monitor) vs Eizo FG2421 on the right. Both are back-light strobing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did someone say viewing angles?


Woa! That is pretty damn impressive!


----------



## jeri

too bad the price 500€ in eu...


----------



## shedokan

Brightness from TFT Central:

Turbo 240 Off: 40 - 386 cd/m2
Turbo 240 On: 41 - 257 cd/m2

For reference, VG248QE using LB 100% brightness is 87 cd/m2

That's impressive.. seriously considering getting this Eizo.. I've been a huge fan of LB at the beginning but the lack of brightness made me go back to 144Hz on CS GO


----------



## CallsignVega

The Eizo is so bright at 100% using 240Turbo, I have to turn it way down. At night here I am using 0% brightness, so easy on the eyes! This is a very dim monitor at 0%, should be a huge selling point.

Testing will continue after pizza arrives.


----------



## jeri

time to put those summer sunglasses back on


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

God damn those colours look fantastic compared to normal TN monitors and Im looking at the pics on a calibrated IPS


----------



## CallsignVega

For those having issues with back light bleed or glowing corners, I must have got a "review sample".









Best lack of BLB and blacks I have ever seen on an LCD. Yes, the monitor is on in the following pics. The LED on the front can be turned off in the options. This is a cave dwellers dream monitor.

Solid black background:









Very dim/dark/inky background:


----------



## l88bastar

My FG2421 is flawless as well, but in order to sell my Glossy Asus VG248QE displays my lawyer has advised me to say the FG2421 sucks, sucks, sucks!!! And is not the best display ever....nope I am forbidden to say that.


----------



## jeri

meeeh wts ASUS VG248QE







waiting for tearing/inputlag data...


----------



## JustinSane

This may sound dumb but, shouldn't using LightBoost burn out your monitor way faster? I wanna try it on my XL2420T but I'm worried it'll shorten it's life.


----------



## CallsignVega

I highly doubt it. LED's don't operate like other light sources in which their lifespans can be decreased by on and off flashing.


----------



## shedokan

so how does it work exactly? what refresh rates are available to use? how to switch between 120/240? 120Hz is the max option on windows?


----------



## Swolern

OH MY, THOSE COLOURS & BLACK LEVELS!!!!







Very tempting. Must resist!!!

Any problems with recent Nvidia drivers and surround Vega?


----------



## CallsignVega

Vega's review of the world's first 120 Hz strobing backlight VA panel monitor, the Eizo Foris FG2421.

This monitor really caught my attention as we all know, all current 120+ Hz gaming models use TN panels. TN panels are very quick, but alas, that is the only thing that they excel at.
Issues of TN panels (especially ones in Lightboost mode) include: horrid viewing angles, washed out/lack of colors, poor black levels, very poor contrast ratios. Most in Lightboost mode have contrast ratios in the 400-700 range. This Eizo has static contrast ratios (even in strobe backlight mode - 240Turbo) of 4000-5000! So, is the king of blacks, the VA panel going to be the frontrunner in the gaming monitor segment? Let's take a look.

This mini-review will be based solely on use as a gaming display, and hence all images of all monitors that are capable, will be in strobing backlight mode. There will be no colorimeters or oscilloscopes used here. Those tests have been completed already on various professional review sites. My input will be based solely on a couple decades worth of high end monitor ownership and testing of all types, counting fifty plus models.
The packaging is fairly plain brown box. It is a bit thinner than I would prefer for shipping, but none of my monitors were damaged and the boxes look great. The monitors came well packed and wrapped. The stand riser is already attached to the monitor, simply mount the base with a single thumb screw.

Aesthetics on this monitor are very good. A simple matte black bezel surrounds the display and appears to be of good quality. As others of stated, there is no VESA mount. I know this is disappointing to some, but the aesthetics of the back are quite nice. There is a gloss orange trim around an illuminated EIZO branding. Inputs face down and are easy to access. They include DL-DVI, and DP 1.2 (both able to run 120 Hz), and an HDMI port (able to run 60 Hz).

Amazingly, in a time when it appears virtually everything is made in China, these displays are manufactured in Japan. Obviously, the quality of Japanese made electronics are quite high, as is apparent with this monitor. All of my three samples were manufactured in early October 2013. For a delivery date of November 2013, around a month from manufacture to in customer hands is very impressive!

The back also houses an on/off power switch next to the power input. Another nice touch that shows this is not your standard low end monitor. The design of the back casing also acts as a convenient hand hold. One reason I believe this monitor was not designed with VESA in mind is that Eizo may have thought it would be mainly for FPS players. FPS only players generally don't play on multi-monitor setups, generally the users requesting VESA mounts. While I do think it would have been possible to include a VESA mount with some sort of removable cover, doing a custom bracket is not out of the question. The stock stand mount to the chassis has easy to access screws. A custom VESA to these particular screw holes would not be terribly difficult. As an individual that always DE bezel's my monitors for Surround/Eyefinity, this has no consequence for myself.
Switching to the front, we have mechanical buttons! Yes, I know such a simple thing gets me excited. I am not a fan of touch sensitive buttons. Touch sensitive buttons are notoriously flakey and a tactile feel cannot be beat. Another bonus of mechanical buttons is once the bezels are removed, they are generally easier to relocate. Touch sensitive controls are generally glued to the front bezel, making relocation a real pain.

The on-screen display is simple and easy to use. The monitor includes a direct shortcut to the brightness button. It is amazing how many monitors overlook this very important feature, and hide brightness controls in sub-menus. That is pretty annoying. 90% of your adjustments on a day to day use will solely be brightness. Eizo also includes software to control monitor controls, but all monitor must be plugged in via USB. I really look forward to testing that feature, as being able to adjust all monitors from their desktop instead of reaching for the relocated buttons on all three monitors will be a boon.

Some great features of the OSD include:

Usage time in hours. Another great feature only found on high-end monitors.
A quick information screen showing resolution, refresh rate and if Turbo240 (backlight strobing is engaged).
There is also the options of turning off the rear logo and even the front power indication light. More features that are only found on high end monitors. Very impressive attention to detail, and this monitor makes for stellar dark room viewing.

The screen has a "semi-gloss" type anti-reflective film applied. Ever since I demoed the new Dell series with a similar film, I was very impressed. I do not like the strong matte films applied to IPS panels, especially the older ones. They made the screens "dirty" looking, with distracting sparkle. Before "semi-gloss" film became recently popular, gloss was the only alternative. I do enjoy gloss as I have a light controlled environment. It really makes the blacks look wet and the colors "pop". Overall though, this new line of semi-gloss AR films is a great compromise. Reduce most of the glare, yet retain a clearer image and hardly any sparkle. This monitor will not require the film to be removed.

There has been some discussion on various forums about "cross-hatching", or faint diagonal lines on white/grey or other light colored backgrounds. I will state that all three of my panels exhibits this phenomenon. But before you stop reading there, let me say that it is VERY faint. On average, the lines go from the bottom left to the top right, at maybe a 30 degree angle. I only notice them on aforementioned white/grey images, and in normal use I do not notice them and they do not bother me. Once and a while I will be reading something and or viewing an image and I will perceive them, but they are generally very faint and not worth fixating on. The cross hatching also appears to be slightly stronger in some areas of the panel over others. I suspect this may have something to do with how the film was applied by roller at the Sharp factory (and associated optical adhesive), rather than the film itself.

The screen does tilt, but the height adjustment is fairly short. The monitor includes a swivel in the stand base plate. The power consumption of this monitor should be well into the low range. The LCD panel barely gets warm to the touch, and the case stays at room temperature. There are small vent holes on the back/top, but after hours of use there is barely any heat being emitted from it.

On all three samples, there is no audible whine from any coils at any brightness. Some monitors exhibit this behavior, especially while adjusting brightness levels on bright or white backgrounds. Zero noise on these models may be attributed to their DC voltage control, with limited (high frequency) PWM at low brightness levels. After many hours of using this screen in 240Turbo mode, I am pleased to say my eyes are doing great! The brightness levels of this model are incredible. You have enough brightness range to handle a well lit room, all the way down to a dark room and maintain a comfortable brightness level.

Monitors in this multi-screen comparison test are the Eizo in the center, a new model BenQ VW2230H on the right, and the BenQ XL2720T (gloss modified) on the left. I've selected the BenQ VW2230H as my "web surfing" monitor that will swing out on its own arm in front of my multi-monitor portrait setup. I don't particularly enjoy web surfing on 1080P portrait, so the small size 21.5" 1920x1080 on the little BenQ and its zero-PWM VA panel offer great desktop viewing. The XL2720T is included in this review, as I believe it is the king of Lightboost featured displays. It offers good motion clarity with the best image quality in Lightboost mode. All NVIDIA control panel sliders are at default.

Black levels and contrast ratios have always been a strong suit of VA panels. There is absolutely no exception to the Foris FG2421:










____________________________________________________________

Above, I left the mouse cursor on the Eizo just to show that the display is on. In a pitch black room, with 240Strobe the black levels, lack of back light bleed, haloing, or any other defects is astonishing. You can almost tell the monitor isn't even on when displaying a black background. The BenQ on the right, being a VA panel to boot also has stellar blacks but falls behind the Eizo. IPS panels, or the TN on the left aren't even on the same planet as the Eizo. If you like dark, scary titles, look no further. Below is an image of a very dark/murky image, also revealing amazing blacks and contrast:










Take a look at the vertical striped background in this image:










The TN panel has such low contrast in comparison, it basically cannot make out the background. Remember though, photographs from a camera may not tell the whole story, so I will add input from in-person viewing as appropriate. Another image of contrast, and I prefer the Eizo in the center:










____________________________________________________________

From my subjective viewpoint, the Eizo appears to have fairly good uniformity, and the white quality is also pleasing:










____________________________________________________________

I have no issues with banding. Black levels and white saturation are also very good. Contrast steps are also very good at all brightness levels. I find around the default value of 50 contrast works well. Sub-pixel layout is as standard for portrait. Not optimum as it is for landscape, but not overly intrusive.

Viewing angles for the panel have exceeded my expectations. If IPS were a 10 on the scale, and TN is a 0, I would rate the Eizo in the 7-8 range. There is some contrast shift from center, but after having dealt with TN panels for so long, that is like complaining about finding $900,000 instead of a million on the street. Head on-view:










Vertical view (most important for portrait):










Video of viewing angles (all angles): 




____________________________________________________________

Colors and various image quality tests:




























Maximum brightness for all monitors:










Here, you can see the brightness of the Eizo, even in strobing backlight mode exceeds its sister non-strobing VA panel on the right. The TN falls considerably behind.

____________________________________________________________

Solid colors:


























I've found reds to be the weakest color on the Eizo. Disregard the white hazing on the blue photo, which is simply a camera anomaly.

____________________________________________________________

Now for what we all came here for, motion quality! During the MPRT test using Mark Rejhon's (blurbusters.com) at testufo.com, revealed a low to mid 2ms backlight strobe length. This equals quite impressive motion clarity. Unlike traditional Lightboost monitors, the strobe length does not vary with brightness, and also retains virtually 100% of the image quality of the VA panel. Lightboost fails greatly in that regard.
First up is your standard 60 Hz non-strobing monitor, the BenQ on the right:










Remember, these images are only going to capture ghosting, not motion blur. You cannot capture motion blur with a camera, so you will have to pay attention to my notes. The 60 Hz panel had very pronounced and strong ghosting images. During the motion test, the blur was severe. Individual items like eyes and the dots on the spaceship cannot be made out.

BenQ XL2720T at 10% brightness (fastest 1.4 ms strobe):










Above, the BenQ wins the flying saucer test. There is very faint ghosting / afterimages. Testing with various shutter speeds, I was unable to get an image that accurately represents what I was seeing, so this is the closest I could get.

____________________________________________________________

Eizo:









Above, the Eizo exhibited what I would call darker "smearing" after trails. Interestingly enough, when I first tested for ghosting during the first 15-20 minutes of setting up the first monitor, I was somewhat disappointed. On some colored backgrounds, there was upwards of 5-6 after images and smearing in 240Turbo mode. After the monitor had "warmed up" a bit more, the trailing reduced to 3-4 and were not nearly as pronounced. I was given this tip by Mark, as apparently the VA panel operates more efficiently with overdrive at a warmer temperature. This is the first time I have noticed "warm up" image changes since the CCFL and CRT days. For motion quality, the Eizo has some advantages, over the BenQ, but also some disadvantages, more below.

I play a lot of flight simulators, so dark objects on white backgrounds is very important to me. Previously, Lightboost monitors have struggled with that. They typically have performed better with light images on dark backgrounds, versus the inverse. I am happy to report this is where the Eizo excels! Confirmed with both Falcon 4 BMS flight simulator, and Mark's tough Eifel Tower test. First up, the 60 Hz VA BenQ:










Firstly, disregard the "split" of the Eifel Tower in all images. That is from the nature of the cameras interaction with the refresh. The most important thing to notice is the after images, or ghosting to the sides of the tower. Above, you can see the after image on the 60 Hz display is strong and pronounced. Individual cross-braces on the tower are impossible to decipher due to sample and hold motion blur. Next up is the BenQ TN at 10% Lightboost:










Above is where Lightboost monitors have a ***** in their armor. Obvious double after images. Before I move onto the Eizo, I would like to point out something in this photo. On Lightboost monitors, especially the 27" panels, I have noticed a peculiar behavior as yours eyes "Scan" or "traverse" the panel. When yours eyes are focused on a single spot, the behavior is not apparent. When moving your eyes, what appears to be a "pixel inversion" or a honeycomb/screen-door type effect occurs. This is a serious image quality reduction on Lightboost monitors. This phenomenon can somewhat be shown in the above photo.

Eizo:









Above, the effect is much less apparent. Image quality stays relatively constant as your eyes scan the screen. Most importantly, take a look at the after images on the tower. Exactly, there are hardly any at all! Virtually crystal clear when viewed in real life. Yes, the Eizo does have some light smearing in certain situations versus the Lightboost monitors. It also has a clearer image with zero screen-door effect in motion, and terrific dark image on light background motion clarity. This, combined with the natural image quality increase of the VA panel, makes the Eizo a hand down winner.

____________________________________________________________

More gaming shots. Eizo versus BenQ VA on right:










The Eizo had a nice balance of contrast, the 60 Hz VA has somewhat exaggerated blacks in shadows.
Eizo vs. TN BenQ:










Nothing needs to be said as the photo is self-evident.

____________________________________________________________

For those interested in debezeling for Eyefinity/Surround. The chassis bezels underneath are not as thin as I was hoping for. The Samsung Ultra Clear line has definitely spoiled me. Those panels had an ultra-thin 1/4" (6.3mm) internal bezel gap. On the top and bottom (for portrait users), the bottom gap from lit pixel to edge is just a hair under 1/2" (12.5mm). The top of the screen, where the ribbon cables connect the panel to the electronics, the gap is approximately 7/16ths (11.6mm). The sides for you landscape lubbers are not an insignificant 5/8ths inch (16.5mm).









Below, panel electronics. Warning, this panel is more involved than similar models in disassembly. There are hidden screws, multiple ribbon cables with short connections, and various other hazards to disassembly. Be cautious! If there is enough interest, I may come up with a DE bezel guide. This panel has a full three separate PCB's. Mounting the panel to a VESA mount will require some creativity. I will dedicate a separate thread to that endeavor.










SUMMARY

Cons:
1. Pay to play. This is not a budget monitor, and was not designed to be.
2. Just a small hint of input lag. All strobing backlight monitors will have some input lag.
3. On some backgrounds, there is some smearing/ghosting.
4. No VESA mount.
5. Some very faint cross-hatching on light images.

Pros:
1. Amazing brightness adjustability.
2. Overall motion clarity is great.
3. Semi-gloss AR film.
4. Strobing backlight built it, no messing with certain GPU brands, drivers, fixes/work-around's. It just works!
5. Great bonus features you only find on high end monitors.
6. Blacks and contrast ratios off the chart.
7. Great quality control seen in my three examples. All three have virtually zero back light bleed, haloing, and glow. All three monitors are pixel perfect and are very hard to distinguish between them in image quality.
8. 5-Year warranty.
9. Colors and overall image quality are good and remain good in 240Turbo backlight strobe mode.
10. Simple, attractive housing.

Now that image quality is possible in addition to motion clarity, my desire for a 4K monitor has diminished. The only downside to Eyefinity/Surround now is bezel gaps. Image quality and viewing angles have been nipped in the bud with Eizo. Gamers are no longer saddled with TN as their only option for motion clarity. I applaud Eizo for taking lead on this revelation in display technology. There is always risk in such an endeavor, but I feel they may do well on such a stellar display.

Vega's rating: 9.0 out of 10.

Stay tuned for my next multi-monitor display setup thread featuring these wonderful Eizo displays!


----------



## neelrocker

Is it really that bad ?









Could you upload the original picture so I can check how my screen displays it (I mean this rose picture displayed on your 3 screens ofc).
edit: found it -> http://webtaj.com/images/high-resolution-flower-nokia-rose_163454.jpg


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## Swolern

Great review Vega.







Still very tempting for me, even with the bezels. Hmm.


----------



## stren

Excellent review as always vega!


----------



## neelrocker

Vega what was your shutter speed for your eiffel tower pictures ?


----------



## hollowtek

Very impressive review! Now I need money lik you so I can buy 3.


----------



## Shogon

Must sell every non-vital organ.....body part..









Thank you for the review Vega







my god the viewing angles are just to die for on that monitor!


----------



## senna89

VEGA, the tftcentral review speak about high input lag, 13ms without Turbo 240 and 18ms with it !!!!
Can you speak about ?


----------



## Arc0s

Great review!


----------



## Shogon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> VEGA, the tftcentral review speak about high input lag, 13ms without Turbo 240 and 18ms with it !!!!
> Can you speak about ?


He said this in his pro/con list
Quote:


> Cons:
> 1. Pay to play. This is not a budget monitor, and was not designed to be.
> 2. *Just a small hint of input lag. All strobing backlight monitors will have some input lag.*
> 3. On some backgrounds, there is some smearing/ghosting.
> 4. No VESA mount.
> 5. Some very faint cross-hatching on light images.


Not sure how bad it is but I'm sure he will clarify it a bit more later on after he gets to game/use them for a bit.


----------



## CallsignVega

I definitely wouldn't use the word high for the input lag. As a long time high end FPS player, I would say it is just barely perceptible versus something like a FW900. While every manufacturer should strive to reduce the input lag as low as it should go, (especially with the added benefit of the motion clarity)- this panel is not unreasonable and would be fine for 99% of people.


----------



## jeri

whoa great review vega!







srsly considering to trade my asus for the new eizo, but next year. that viewangle and color just trashing the asus and the blacks offcourse.


----------



## motsm

Really great review Vega, as others have said.

I'm one of the few stubborn CRT hold outs still around, but your review makes the Eizo look like a worthy replacement. Of course I don't think I can justify the $600 I see it going for, but it's nice to know something (finally) exists.


----------



## ridebird

Good review, and I see you got a good one.

But please note that there are plenty of people not as lucky as Vega in the panel lottery, and you might need to send it in to Eizo to get a new one. My screen looked like ****. There are quality control issues. I would not deem this screen worth the money right now as there is a fairly high risk of you getting a crappy screen.

That is a huge con in my book, but sure, you can't really review what you don't have.


----------



## mdrejhon

Vega, good review.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> You cannot capture motion blur with a camera, so you will have to pay attention to my notes.


*Actually, yes, you can.*
You need to use the Pursuit Camera HOWTO.

Essentially:
1. View www.testufo.com/ghosting#separation=150&pursuit=1
2. Observe the ladder track (Pursuit Camera Sync Track) -- this is my invention for embedding camera tracking accuracy into resulting photographs (explained)
3. Pan the camera along the motion while taking a picture at a controlled exposure speed (preferably 1/30 sec). A rail is best, or a camera on a tiny dolly in front of display.
4. Verify you've correctly captured the ladder track in the photograph.
examples good pursuit camera photo of LightBoost
example bad pursuit camera photo of LightBoost

You may have to do about 10 attempts before you reasonably succeed.
Hand-panning the camera is extremely difficult to do accurately, but you can get a tracking acccuracy of within +/- 1-2 pixels eventually after several repeated attempts.
Make sure you scroll down to the example good/bad photos in the Pursuit Camera HOWTO.

*Example Good Pursuit Camera Photograph*

(Photo of TestUFO Ghosting with Pursuit Camera Sync Track for verification of tacking accuracy)









*Examples of Artifacts in Pursuit Camera Photography*

The "ladder" optical illusion (Pursuit Camera Sync Track) needs to be accurately captured on photograph, in order to make the photo accurate. Verifying Tracking Errors: Pursuit camera photography on LightBoost displays
(Photos of TestUFO Ghosting with Pursuit Camera Sync Track for verification of tacking accuracy)









Broken vertical lines: camera was not moving near near correct speed









Vertical lines slants forward (/): camera moved too fast horizontally









Vertical lines slants backwards (\): camera moved too slow horizontally









Vertical lines slants backwards (\): camera moved too slow horizontally
This one is a 1/20sec exposure, that actually overlapped 7 refreshes of 120Hz
(e.g. 1/4ths of first refresh, then 5 full refreshes, then 3/4ths of final refresh)









Segments of lines is brighter: This specific exposure captured 5 refreshes.
This photograph is valid.









Overshooting the edge of the web browser: whoops!
Try again with a maximized browser window.
Also, camera was slightly vibrating vertically; creating small disjoints in the vertical line.

*Legend Of Identifying Camera Tracking Errors*

*Camera Tracking Accuracy: Verification of Vertical Accuracy*
There must be a clear 1-pixel black gap inside the fine horizontal white lines.
This verifies your camera didn't shake vertically (e.g. camera vibrations).

*Camera Tracking Accuracy: Verification of Horizontal Accuracy*
If your pursuit camera photograph is not successful, then it is easy to identify the flaws. As a general rule of thumb, motion flaws are visually identifiable as follows:

*Artifacts That Invalidates Results (adds unwanted motion blur)*
- Broken vertical lines: camera was not moving near correct speed
- Vertical lines slants backwards (\): camera moved too slow horizontally
- Vertical lines slants forward (/): camera moved too fast horizontally
- Wavy/curved vertical lines: camera moved horizontally at a varying speed
- Sync Tracks not consistent (left/right edges, or different sync tracks): camera was rotating/skewing/tilting while tracking.

*Artifacts That Don't Invalidate Results (results valid if vertical segments are aligned)*
- Missing portions in lines: exposure was less than 4x refresh
- Segments of lines is brighter: exposure was greater than 4x refresh
- Thick vertical bars: lower refresh rates & sample-and-hold displays
- Thin vertical lines: higher refresh rates & strobe displays such as LightBoost
- Noisy vertical lines: temporal dithering (plasma, DLP, some LCD's)

*Example Successful Captures of Motion Blur*

TestUFO Ghosting, moving at 960 pixels/second, camera exposure of 1/30sec.
Related articles as follows:
Blur Busters: 60Hz vs 120Hz vs LightBoost
Blur Busters: LightBoost 10% vs 50% vs 100%

*Comparision of LightBoost 10% vs 50% vs 100%*
This compares the subtle differences in motion clarity of the various different LightBoost settings.









*60 Hz Refresh rate:*
Each refresh is displayed continuously for a full 1/60 second (16.7ms).
This results in approximately 16 pixels of motion blur during 960 pixels/sec motion.









*120 Hz Refresh rate*
Each refresh is displayed continuously for a full 1/120 second (8.3ms)
This creates 50% less motion blur. This includes regular and overclocked 120Hz.
This results in approximately 8 pixels of motion blur during 960 pixels/sec motion.









*120 Hz LightBoost: CRT quality motion*
The backlight is strobed briefly, once per refresh, eliminating sample-and-hold.
With LightBoost, 120fps @ 120Hz has 85% to 92% less motion blur than 60Hz.
This results in just 1 to 2 pixels of motion blur during 960 pixels/sec motion.








(LightBoost=50%)

*Example of tracking motion blur*

Take a look at www.testufo.com/eyetracking as an example of motion blur caused by eye tracking -- this is not motion blur caused by pixel transitions.

Now view www.testufo.com/eyetracking#pattern=checkerboard
Try to capture a photo of it. *You can't capture a WYSIWYG picture successfuly. Unless you pursuit the camera along the motion while taking a longer exposure photo*.
Then the photograph is successful, and matches what the human eye saw:









(120Hz, checkerboard illusion, LightBoost turned OFF).

This, above, is additional photographic proof of the usefulness of pursuit camera photography.

*You can create these photos too...*

All users and reviewers are able to do this too. The pursuit camera instructions are published publicly: Pursuit Camera HOWTO
Pursuit camera, a "tracking camera" (moving camera) equivalent to "tracking human eyes" (moving eyes), makes it possible to photographically capture the equivalent motion blur that is perceived by human eyes on these displays.

-- You use www.testufo.com/ghosting#separation=150&pursuit=1
-- Any ordinary camera can be used; preferably with adjustable exposure speed
-- You simply move the camera sideways following the motion - while capturing a photo.
-- Preferably, on camera rail, or sliding low-friction block, or small homemade dolly with wheels.
-- Hand-panning camera won't be as accurate but still produces fun/interesting results after 10 to 20 tries
-- The ladder-shaped "Sync Track" makes it easy to confirm whether your panning was accurate...
-- Use the "burst" feature of your camera, so you can take more pictures, in the increased chances of one of the photos having a more perfect capture of the Pursuit Camera Sync Track.


----------



## renji1337

Will adding the G-sync module to a vg248qe ever do anything about the colors during LB? I have a vg248qe, for MMO's and stuff i use 144hz, but for FPS i use lb, but still the image quality is pretty bad.


----------



## Andrea deluxe

edit


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *renji1337*
> 
> Will adding the G-sync module to a vg248qe ever do anything about the colors during LB? I have a vg248qe, for MMO's and stuff i use 144hz, but for FPS i use lb, but still the image quality is pretty bad.


Technically, the optional G-SYNC fixed-rate strobe mode will likely be better (less delta between strobed and non-strobed). They can keep the gamma unmodified and have more accurate colors.


----------



## CallsignVega

Good stuff mark, I will take a look at that article. I didn't go too in depth, as many reviews already had. My review was more subjective based. But I think I am a fairly objective person.


----------



## neelrocker

Idk how relevant the below comparison is since vega didn't give his exposure speed setting, neither how accurate such a comparison could be in term of showing how stobe mode can improve sharpness for a moving content, but you may want to look at the images below:

   

The 1st one comes from the original picture of eiffel tower test
The 2nd one comes from vega's picture of the fg2421 with turbo240 @120hz
The 3rd one is my fs2333 (60hz, IPS, camera placed to take a picture of the whole screen, 1/200 exposure speed, and 3 pictures were stacked to remove noise and increase accuracy a bit)
The last one is my fs2333, picture taken much closer to the screen using macro mode, 1/200 exposure speed

What seems interesting is how vega's picture from the fg2421 with turbo240 is more accurate regarding the pixelated nature of the original picture. The aliasing, the light coming through the tower holes, the pixelated nature of the buildings at the backround, all those are more accurate (vs original) than my fs2333 pictures in which even using macro to take the picture all those details are smoothed. The aliasing is smoothed, the light through the tower holes is smoothed, and the pixelated nature of many parts of the original picture does not appear when it clearly does on vega's picture.


----------



## Shogon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Technically, the optional G-SYNC fixed-rate strobe mode will likely be better (less delta between strobed and non-strobed). They can keep the *gamma unmodified and have more accurate colors*.


That would be awesome, no, more then awesome honestly. I hope the G-sync module does address that, and if so, man I can't wait. I'd love to have colors just like non-strobed 144 Hz on my monitors, while running Lightboost. Looking forward to you guys getting your hands on one when they release and giving your views on it.


----------



## ARIKOmagic

<3 Vega
So how does turbo 240 compare to 2D lightboost hack? Any felt differences?


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

The Eizo Foris FG2421 looks like an amazing monitor, why in the hell did hey leave off a vesa mount tho


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *neelrocker*
> 
> Vega what was your shutter speed for your eiffel tower pictures ?


1/125
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARIKOmagic*
> 
> <3 Vega
> So how does turbo 240 compare to 2D lightboost hack? Any felt differences?


240Turbo stacks up very well. It has about the same motion clarity of 70% Lightboost due to strobe length, but it also has some very positive characteristics such as dark objects on light backgrounds. 10% Lightboost is still the clearest, but you deal with very dim image and abysmal contrast ratios and overall picture quality in sacrifice. The Eizo allows good motion clarity at all brightness levels up to very bright and retains great image quality throughout.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> The Eizo Foris FG2421 looks like an amazing monitor, why in the hell did hey leave off a vesa mount tho


You can adapt the back screw mounts for VESA. Two of the screws line up perfectly, there are two more that can be drilled in the VESA mount plate for stability.


----------



## neelrocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> 1/125


The comparison I posted above may be relevant then. Maybe mdrejhon will share his opinion on this.


----------



## Jodiuh

Vega: So the Eizo is PWM?


----------



## CallsignVega

Hybrid PWM at 19 % brightness setting and below. It uses high frequency, low amplitude PWM (combined with steady DC voltage reduction) at 0-19%. 20-100% brightness is all steady DC voltage regulation (no PWM). This is a great monitor for the eyes.


----------



## CallsignVega

I was just playing around with the Eizo screen manager pro software, this thing is great! It allows me to adjust all of my settings on all three monitors at once from a taskbar icon. This is awesome for multi-monitor setups, especially de-bezeled ones. Now I don't need to reach for the custom mounted buttons and adjust each monitor individually, just two seconds with the app and bam, done. Sweet think there Eizo!


----------



## Jodiuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Hybrid PWM at 19 % brightness setting and below. It uses high frequency, low amplitude PWM (combined with steady DC voltage reduction) at 0-19%. 20-100% brightness is all steady DC voltage regulation (no PWM). This is a great monitor for the eyes.


I'm assuming you've seen monitors w/ full on PWM backlights? Do they bother you?


----------



## CallsignVega

Uh ya. I had many 2B Catleaps (1440P overclockable IPS), and they had really low PWM frequency. It got so bad I had to run them at 100% brightness and turn down the brightness setting in the GPu control panel. Ended up selling them as they were too rough on my eyes. I only buy DC control monitors now. It's funny though, strobing backlights don't affect me, but PWM does. Not exactly sure why, but Mark would be able to expound on that maybe a little better.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Uh ya. I had many 2B Catleaps (1440P overclockable IPS), and they had really low PWM frequency. It got so bad I had to run them at 100% brightness and turn down the brightness setting in the GPu control panel. Ended up selling them as they were too rough on my eyes. I only buy DC control monitors now. It's funny though, strobing backlights don't affect me, but PWM does. Not exactly sure why, but Mark would be able to expound on that maybe a little better.


Multiple strobes per refresh cause an ugly-motion phenomenon:








(From LCD Motion Artifacts 101)

For certain people, this *PWM artifact* sometimes is a bigger cause of eyestrain for some people, than the *PWM flicker* itself.
This is like the [email protected] double-image artifact (CRT/plasma).
180Hz PWM @ 60Hz refresh, or 360Hz PWM @ 120Hz refresh, creates a triple-image artifact (Low-frequency PWM dimming).

If your monitor has PWM dimming, do this:
1. View animation at www.testufo.com/ghosting
2. Gradually adjust brightness from 100% down to 0%.
3. You will witness motion gradually become uglier and uglier, the lower brightness becomes.
4. That's the PWM motion artifact you are seeing. Motion-optimized strobe backlights do not do this.
5. This artifact creates eyestrain for several people (including me and CallSignVega).

Motion blur and motion artifacts makes it feel like we're perpetually seeing an unfocussed image, or perpetually seeing double-images. This strains our human brain and/or eye focussing muscles, since the rough image motion artifacts gives an unusually aggressive workout. This is why it increases eyestrain when our eyes are unable to focus on moving objects that have forced artifacts (unavoidable display motion blur or unavoidable PWM artifacts). Only CRT's and strobe-backlight monitors can cure this specific type of eyestrain if you're not sensitive to flicker.

Thusly, PWM's flicker is *NOT* necessarily the cause of eyestrain for everybody. It can be, but this is a different kind of problem that PWM does. Assuming you don't have other sensitivites (e.g. LED color spectrum issues, etc) this behavior often explains people who don't have CRT eyestrain and don't have LightBoost eyestrain, but ends up having PWM eyestrain during long periods of videogaming. For a person whose eyes loved CRT and hated PWM, then such people should try out a strobe-backlight computer monitor (e.g. LightBoost, Turbo240, etc).


----------



## l88bastar

Yes, everything mark and vega just said! PWM blows out my eye sockets as well, but CRT and strobing backlights do not!


----------



## MicroMouse

New member here. Very good thread. Thank you.

My xl2420t (old version I think) makes me feel dizzy, but with my new xl2411t there is no such issue. Probably some PWM-free thingy that too. It says flicker free on the box anyway.

Could not resist buying the new eizo. Best monitor ever. What surprise me with this is that I can run Mame with strobe mod together with turbo and play for hours without feeling sick. That is serious strobing







giving even better motion clarity. The colors and brightness are still really good. Just have to turn up the contrast a few steps.

Would be interesting to see some high speed video and motion blur capture of this double black frame method. My guess is that it would give 3/4 black frames.


----------



## CallsignVega

Just got done stripping one of these bad boys down and custom mounting. There are two VESA holes which make is less problematic to mount. Took like three hours to get everything right.










1 down, 4 to go!


----------



## Jodiuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Uh ya. I had many 2B Catleaps (1440P overclockable IPS), and they had really low PWM frequency. It got so bad I had to run them at 100% brightness and turn down the brightness setting in the GPu control panel. Ended up selling them as they were too rough on my eyes. I only buy DC control monitors now. It's funny though, strobing backlights don't affect me, but PWM does. Not exactly sure why, but Mark would be able to expound on that maybe a little better.


Awesome. You confirmed my question and another I had not even though of. So lightboost doesn't bug you, but low PWM does? Interesting...and MONEY! Have a buddy of mine that got the Asus 144 and won't shut up about LB.

Last question...shot in orbit...will the Eizo get a drop in Gsync module like the Asus? (Hee, I'm laughing as I type this.)


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroMouse*
> 
> New member here. Very good thread. Thank you.
> My xl2420t (old version I think) makes me feel dizzy, but with my new xl2411t there is no such issue. Probably some PWM-free thingy that too. It says flicker free on the box anyway.


XL2411T Revision 2.0 is PWM-free in non-LightBoost mode.
(Although LightBoost is a low-frequency PWM, it does not generate ugly PWM artifacts).
Quote:


> Could not resist buying the new eizo. Best monitor ever. What surprise me with this is that I can run Mame with strobe mod together with turbo and play for hours without feeling sick. That is serious strobing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> giving even better motion clarity. The colors and brightness are still really good. Just have to turn up the contrast a few steps.


Indeed, the Eizo FG2421 is also the most CRT-like non-CRT for emulators, that I have ever seen, when combined with the software-based black frame insertion (e.g. www.testufo.com/blackframes ) to allow 60Hz strobing during 120Hz strobing.
Quote:


> Would be interesting to see some high speed video and motion blur capture of this double black frame method. My guess is that it would give 3/4 black frames.


Keep tuned. I have a high speed camera.
It is 2/3 black frames relative to 120Hz, and 5/6 black frames relative to 60Hz (using software-based black frame insertion such as MAME strobe, WinUAE strobe -- ala www.testufo.com/blackframes ). This is consistent with oscilloscope measurements made by TFTCentral.

There is, however, a faint double-edge artifact at www.testufo.com which is caused by the double-strobe and the longer-than-usual strobe.


----------



## Arc0s

Hey Vega what is the name of that desk you're using?


----------



## stren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Just got done stripping one of these bad boys down and custom mounting. There are two VESA holes which make is less problematic to mount. Took like three hours to get everything right.
> 
> 1 down, 4 to go!


Ah you're going back to eyefinity? I thought you weren't happy with the portrait driver support?

Damn 5x$600 monitors, and I was whining about the cost of three. I got to vega up lulz.


----------



## MicroMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> There is, however, a faint double-edge artifact at www.testufo.com which is caused by the double-strobe and the longer-than-usual strobe.


Yes, I noticed that. It's actually less with turbo off, but the colors look better with turbo on. After playing around with different setting I ended up with turbo on and contrast at 70% when double-strobing. Overall very satisfied with the result. One thing I have experienced is that the monitor needs to warm up before things run smoothly.

I am using hlsl scanlines in Mame and it would be an interesting idea to strobe odd then even lines (not pixels) instead of a whole black frame.

Looking forward to see some scientific results on this.


----------



## skupples

+1!

Must resist new monitors until end of next year... Must resist.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> Hey Vega what is the name of that desk you're using?


I made it custom. Top is stainless steel. Needed something strong for 3x FW900's.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stren*
> 
> Ah you're going back to eyefinity? I thought you weren't happy with the portrait driver support?
> 
> Damn 5x$600 monitors, and I was whining about the cost of three. I got to vega up lulz.


Trying 3x1 with the Eizo's first. Hopefully the 290x custom PCB boards will have more than one DP 1.2 so with MST hubs I can try 5x1 again. I miss my old setup:



Now with the Eizo's fixing a lot of issues I've had with TN panels, the 290x's fixing stuttering issues with new drivers, crossfire and higher bandwidth. A 5x1 setup should be more practical this turn. I am always coming up with setups ahead of technology to run 'em _properly_.


----------



## Arc0s

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I made it custom. Top is stainless steel. Needed something strong for 3x FW900's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trying 3x1 with the Eizo's first. Hopefully the 290x custom PCB boards will have more than one DP 1.2 so with MST hubs I can try 5x1 again. I miss my old setup:
> 
> 
> 
> Now with the Eizo's fixing a lot of issues I've had with TN panels, the 290x's fixing stuttering issues with new drivers, crossfire and higher bandwidth. A 5x1 setup should be more practical this turn. I am always coming up with setups ahead of technology to run 'em _properly_.






That looked amazing.


----------



## IronMaiden1973

This all looks well and good, but come back to me when they are in a 27" variety. Theres no way that Im going from triple 24" Acers to the Asus VG278H x1 and VG278HE x 2 triple setup Im using now and then BACK to a 23.5" display .. No way. Not just for better color.. It's like wearing a Berka.

But in saying that. I love the work you guys have done.. Its excellent that we have people like you guys to be able to do the ground work for the rest of us.. They are good monitors without a doubt and if you've already got a 24" or smaller LCD this is the ultimate choice..

On a side note, when the heck is Nvidia gonna start releasing their drivers to work with the lightboost hack again. I think I used these monitors in lightboost for two driver revisions until it was rendered broken. The last driver release to work is getting a little to old to be using. You either use an old driver and suffer from crappier FPS but have LB on, or use a newer driver and have smooth gameplay but cant use LB.. The last driver version to work is 327.23. Thats one beta and two world releases old. BF4 is garbage with 327.23 vs. 331.65


----------



## crun

Lack of VESA mount is disturbing... but Vega, you are saying that it's not really a problem? It would replace my main monitor which is using a static mount, so I wouldn't be moving it at all... so would it be perfectly stable, even using only two screws? This 'modification' won't affect my warranty ofc?

It's sooo expensive, my current main monitor (E2370V-BF) cost less than half of it... by any chance, one of you gentlemen, maybe had a chance of comparing LG E2370V-BF to EIZO FG2421? Because I consider that LG as a bad, eye-fatiguing with too much AG coating monitor. I'm wondering how big of an upgrade new Eizo would be.


----------



## Soulfire

Quick question - am I correct in seeing that this monitor has .5 less inches in the diagonal than typical 24" monitors? Or are all 24 inch monitors that length and I'm just an idiot?


----------



## PCM2

Most 24" 16:9 monitors are 24" (24.1" in some cases if 16:10). Some are 23.6" and some 23.8". The EIZO has a 23.5" screen.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> This all looks well and good, but come back to me when they are in a 27" variety. Theres no way that Im going from triple 24" Acers to the Asus VG278H x1 and VG278HE x 2 triple setup Im using now and then BACK to a 23.5" display .. No way. Not just for better color.. It's like wearing a Berka.


Theres way more to the Eizo over those monitors you listed than just better colors, thats for sure! The Eizo is in it's own category.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crun*
> 
> Lack of VESA mount is disturbing... but Vega, you are saying that it's not really a problem? It would replace my main monitor which is using a static mount, so I wouldn't be moving it at all... so would it be perfectly stable, even using only two screws? This 'modification' won't affect my warranty ofc?


I am mounting them with the two VESA holes (but I had to secure the electronics chassis to the back of the panel, currently it is a floating design). As long as you aren't rough with it and adjusting it all the time, should be fine.


----------



## granitov

...So in the end: how does lightboost affect lifespan of a monitor?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *granitov*
> 
> ...So in the end: how does lightboost affect lifespan of a monitor?


It doesn't -- it's a built-in feature of a computer monitor, designed for NVIDIA 3D Vision.
We're just using it for 2D blur reduction, instead of 3D.

LightBoost FAQ


----------



## Jack Mac

Vega, or any of the Eizo monitor owners, how do the colors on the FG2421 compare to an IPS/PLS display?


----------



## jincuteguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stren*
> 
> Ah you're going back to eyefinity? I thought you weren't happy with the portrait driver support?
> 
> Damn 5x$600 monitors, and I was whining about the cost of three. I got to vega up lulz.


The Eizo 240hz monitor is $600? Where did you guys buy it in the states?


----------



## stren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I made it custom. Top is stainless steel. Needed something strong for 3x FW900's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trying 3x1 with the Eizo's first. Hopefully the 290x custom PCB boards will have more than one DP 1.2 so with MST hubs I can try 5x1 again. I miss my old setup:
> 
> Now with the Eizo's fixing a lot of issues I've had with TN panels, the 290x's fixing stuttering issues with new drivers, crossfire and higher bandwidth. A 5x1 setup should be more practical this turn. I am always coming up with setups ahead of technology to run 'em _properly_.


Yeah I hear you - I would miss that too. I did wonder whether you'd try an MST hub for the 5th monitor. Judging on the 7970 you may have to wait for the 7990 equivalent if you want 5 full BW outputs I guess. Hopefully the lightning will have 5 good outputs.

The first release of the frame packing driver fix for CFX was said to only work on single displays - have they got it figured out for multiple monitors now?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jincuteguy*
> 
> The Eizo 240hz monitor is $600? Where did you guys buy it in the states?


Oh I just had a quick search for it on froogle, not many resellers have it yet, but that was the price I saw from someone.


----------



## DirtyTrickster

Does anyone know if We'll be able to mod the VG278H to be G-sync capable?


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroMouse*
> 
> Yes, I noticed that. It's actually less with turbo off, but the colors look better with turbo on. After playing around with different setting I ended up with turbo on and contrast at 70% when double-strobing. Overall very satisfied with the result. *One thing I have experienced is that the monitor needs to warm up before things run smoothly.*
> .


And this is evident ? can be a problem ?


----------



## STaRGaZeR69

Got mine today. It seems I got one of the bad ones. Comparing it to my awesome (for a TN) old 2233RZ, which is still the best 120Hz monitor I've ever used.

*Pros*:

Turbo240 is awesome for games. Great motion clarity with 99% of the image quality of the normal mode. Makes no difference for normal usage, but be aware of the afterimages it creates, see below.

*Cons*:

- The monitor suffers the lack of red. Pure red is quite pale, compared to green and blue. This causes colors to be off, I can't get it right no matter what I try with the controls.
- Crosshatching across the whole screen. This might sound crazy, but I think the warmer it gets the more I can see it. I just turned it on and I can't see anything. EDIT: as I'm done writing this post, it's clearly evident on the white background.
- Bad black levels. Pure black is supposed to be awesome on this display, but it's barely better than my 2233RZ. In normal operation contrast is comparable to the 2233RZ.
- Severe light bleed from the edges when displaying colors close to black, but not black itself, as others have reported.
- Ghosting! Aceptable with Turbo240 off, with it on it produces after images. The ufo test is an extreme case, but I can see it in normal operation.
- Horrible effect in fades from black. If you own Trine 2, the fade that happens just after the Frozenbite logo looks horrible, like a 256 colors GIF. This obviously doesn't happen on the 2233RZ.

I'm going back to my 2233RZ. It's supposed to be a ****ty monitor, but it really looks better to me than the Eizo. Reds really pop up, overall picture is better, no ghosting or other bull****, etc.


----------



## jincuteguy

So is this Eizo monitor worth the money? or im still better with the Tempest 27" OC


----------



## neelrocker

I wonder if eizo & sharp are going to try to improve things regarding the flaws early owners are mentionning (like cross-hatching). Shall we expect better fg2421 units being sold in a near future ?


----------



## CallsignVega

That StarGzer guy above posted the same thing on [H], with 1 post. Look's like he is trolling.

On another note:

Most epic display setup I have ever built. The image quality and incredible black/contrast ratios are only magnified at this size. Took a few days to get everything just right. Now that such a setup no longer has any large pitfalls, I can see me having this setup for many years. Well, unless they come out with a 2560x1440 version.


----------



## jincuteguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> That StarGzer guy above posted the same thing on [H], with 1 post. Look's like he is trolling.
> 
> On another note:
> 
> Most epic display setup I have ever built. The image quality and incredible black/contrast ratios are only magnified at this size. Took a few days to get everything just right. Now that such a setup no longer has any large pitfalls, I can see me having this setup for many years. Well, unless they come out with a 2560x1440 version.


Don't you also want Gsync?


----------



## stren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jincuteguy*
> 
> Don't you also want Gsync?


We all know Vega will try it, but GSynch's version of lightboost may not be that much better. If the amd drivers are up to scratch for portrait then it will be 5 in portrait vs 3 in portrait with a possibly better version of lightboost but worse viewing angles. That's if things play out based on the limited information we know, i.e. AFAIK only the vg248qe has been confirmed to get gsynch, and who knows when other gsynch displays or the separate gsynch modules will come out and what they'll be compatible with.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crun*
> 
> Lack of VESA mount is disturbing... but Vega, you are saying that it's not really a problem? It would replace my main monitor which is using a static mount, so I wouldn't be moving it at all... so would it be perfectly stable, even using only two screws? This 'modification' won't affect my warranty ofc?
> 
> It's sooo expensive, my current main monitor (E2370V-BF) cost less than half of it... by any chance, one of you gentlemen, maybe had a chance of comparing LG E2370V-BF to EIZO FG2421? Because I consider that LG as a bad, eye-fatiguing with too much AG coating monitor. I'm wondering how big of an upgrade new Eizo would be.


that's an easy solution. stop playing bf4! I'm still on the 327WHQL... No issues in any other new titles on them.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stren*
> 
> We all know Vega will try it, but GSynch's version of lightboost may not be that much better. If the amd drivers are up to scratch for portrait then it will be 5 in portrait vs 3 in portrait with a possibly better version of lightboost but worse viewing angles. That's if things play out based on the limited information we know, i.e. AFAIK only the vg248qe has been confirmed to get gsynch, and who knows when other gsynch displays or the separate gsynch modules will come out and what they'll be compatible with.


The official press release on g-sync lists a gaggle of companies who will be going live with the product, in all shapes, sizes, & types @ the end of 2014. I would go find it but i'm exhausted about to retire. It's in the G-sync thread some where...

http://www.overclock.net/t/1435176/geforce-nvidia-announces-the-revolutionary-g-sync/800_50#post_21173869

I'll be holding off on a monitor upgrade until then. May end up going triple 1440P G-sync if any of them can do 90FPS+


----------



## stren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> that's an easy solution. stop playing bf4! I'm still on the 327WHQL... No issues in any other new titles on them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The official press release on g-sync lists a gaggle of companies who will be going live with the product, in all shapes, sizes, & types @ the end of 2014. I would go find it but i'm exhausted about to retire. It's in the G-sync thread some where...
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1435176/geforce-nvidia-announces-the-revolutionary-g-sync/800_50#post_21173869
> 
> I'll be holding off on a monitor upgrade until then. May end up going triple 1440P G-sync if any of them can do 90FPS+


End of 2014 is a long time away, and everything in tech arrives later than marketing claims. By 2015 who knows what will be out. It's so far away that only Asus was willing to confirm a single model number as getting gsync.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stren*
> 
> End of 2014 is a long time away, and everything in tech arrives later than marketing claims. By 2015 who knows what will be out. It's so far away that only Asus was willing to confirm a single model number as getting gsync.


that is true, though the unit already exists... But for some reason Asus was given exclusivity for the first bit of time. Likely as a tester... Either way, i'm holding off on my monitor re-up until we start getting concrete information on G-sync. Maybe by 2014 120hz+ 1440P won't require overclocking the panel.

I think what really happened with G-Sync is that Nvidia announced it waaaayyy too early as a disruption to what AMD was doing @ the time. By the time it starts coming around people will have forgotten about it, & nvidia will likely do a re-release announcement type dealio.

It was interesting to see the option pop up in a driver pack though.


----------



## karkee

So I orderd one of these, what are the problems people are getting with them?


----------



## neelrocker

@karkee

I can try to sum it up:

- cross hatching: That's thin parallel lines you can see on uniform colors (but mainly light gray, white, etc.). Can be more or less visible depending on how sensitive the user is to it and how pronounced the issue is on your panel

- darker tones not rendered within a circular area centered on your viewing point when looking at the screen with a 90° angle (straight forward). Visible on a picture consisting of dark grey stripes (in the above mentionned circle you see black instead of seeing the grey stripes). Some users tell this is not distrubing in everyday use (like a video with dark scenes, or a dark game). Someone told me though that this issue is very problematic in photography editing. This issue is inherent to the VA nature of the panel (all VA panels has it).

- gamma shift. As the above this is inherent to the VA nature of the panel. With the above mentionned picture consisting in vertical black + dark grey stripes this will make the grey stripes brighter the more they are closer to the left/right border of the screen. Many pictures already shown are showing the right side will always show the brightest deviation as also a color deviation toward green (grey stripes becomes green-ish). Users seems to mix up this issue with backlight bleeding. Most fg2421 seems to be only very slightly affected by backlight bleeding but all are more or less affected by the gamma shift (which produces similar result). Compared to the above mentionned circilar issue with darker toones, the gamma shift seems more a problem as it is visible in everyday use (in a dark game left and right border of the screen look like the is backlight bleeding, they are brighter.

- lack of red: this seems common to all fg2421 when talking about color accuracy.

- about 15-20ms latency, but seems obvious the way sharper image of an animated scene outweight by far this "higher than best TN" latency.


----------



## jeri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I made it custom. Top is stainless steel. Needed something strong for 3x FW900's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trying 3x1 with the Eizo's first. Hopefully the 290x custom PCB boards will have more than one DP 1.2 so with MST hubs I can try 5x1 again. I miss my old setup:
> 
> 
> 
> Now with the Eizo's fixing a lot of issues I've had with TN panels, the 290x's fixing stuttering issues with new drivers, crossfire and higher bandwidth. A 5x1 setup should be more practical this turn. I am always coming up with setups ahead of technology to run 'em _properly_.




woooooooooooooow dat setup....


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> That StarGzer guy above posted the same thing on [H], with 1 post. Look's like he is trolling.
> 
> On another note:
> 
> Most epic display setup I have ever built. The image quality and incredible black/contrast ratios are only magnified at this size. Took a few days to get everything just right. Now that such a setup no longer has any large pitfalls, I can see me having this setup for many years. Well, unless they come out with a 2560x1440 version.


Vega I'm wondering if you've been enlisted as a salesmen as you do have a bit of weight on this forum and you seem to be pushing a wet log. .. Portrait mode in a 23.5 inch display is putrid. Web surfing is a no go.. The page is presented long and skinny and the bezels quickly become annoying. The same goes for game play. Yes the resolution is higher, but the game play.. Oh no. Because its only 23.5" the vertical black bezels are so close together it feels like your looking through jail bars.. They get in the way and defeats the purpose of it all. You will find landscape in this small monitor much more enjoyable.. .. This monitor is over rated... 23.5 inch at $800 AU times 3 for a little setup with what sounds to be like very poor R and D support. Ive seen more people with bad monitors than good ones. There should be none.. Not some.. You wont keep that for years mate. I'll give you 5 months tops.

Now. I wait for your next tech installment. This one has run its course. . .


----------



## Shogon

You think those bezels are big







? They look invisible compared to my VG248QEs in portrait. The monitor reacts so fast (in lightboost) the bezels are not even a slight issue for me, others it could be, but it's nothing once you adapt to it. Where are you seeing all these bad monitors by the way? You said it's so expensive for you and overrated, so who do you even know that has one in person? Or is this just because you don't like it to begin with, or can never experience it firsthand. Also, thinking like that regarding never getting a bad monitor, that will never happen







. This isn't a perfect world we live in any right, if it was, Yosemite wouldn't of burned down like it did.


----------



## CallsignVega

I always do multi-display setups of many many types and brands. I am a salesman for the entire display industry.

I do not web surf on any multi-monitor display in portrait, hence you can see my monitor swing arm on the right of my photo. Portrait is for gaming, which is superlative. If you think portrait is no good, I think landscape multi-monitor is even worse. Portrait is much closer to the natural human vision ratio of 2:1 and gives a grand, detailed view into the world, landscape is a silly 5:1+ ratio like looking out through a slit in the window blinds. 2/3's of the worlds detail is wasted on largely fish'eyed peripheral vision which is naturally unclear. With only 1080 vertical pixels the entire width of the display, you lack any sort of detail in the world completely.

Review sites have all rated this screen very highly, and in testing it _demolishes_ my previous setups. All three of my samples are excellent. From where I am sitting, Eizo's QC is great. Developing a strobing backlight VA panel is a revolution. If you are sore about the price and cannot afford them, that is no reason to knock the display. It is not cheap coming out with these new models.


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogon*
> 
> You think those bezels are big
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ? They look invisible compared to my VG248QEs in portrait. The monitor reacts so fast (in lightboost) the bezels are not even a slight issue for me, others it could be, but it's nothing once you adapt to it. Where are you seeing all these bad monitors by the way? You said it's so expensive for you and overrated, so who do you even know that has one in person? Or is this just because you don't like it to begin with, or can never experience it firsthand. Also, thinking like that regarding never getting a bad monitor, that will never happen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . This isn't a perfect world we live in any right, if it was, Yosemite wouldn't of burned down like it did.


Bad monitors.. Well just flip back a few pages on this very forum.. That pic of the monitor that was posted is a deterrent for many right away.. Not sure Id like to buy a Porsche and hope I get a good paint job with mine..I'd damn well insist on it.. I never said its expensive for me.. I said its expensive period. Most people will look at the pro and con list and walk away from this. Regardless of whats on the list of goodies.. Gsync is to tempting over this monitor.. And you're accepting to be giving a bad monitor.. No way. Don't believe you said that, In this world if you don't produce you don't match up to the competition.. ..

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I always do multi-display setups of many many types and brands. I am a salesman for the entire display industry.
> 
> I do not web surf on any multi-monitor display in portrait, hence you can see my monitor swing arm on the right of my photo. Portrait is for gaming, which is superlative. If you think portrait is no good, I think landscape multi-monitor is even worse. Portrait is much closer to the natural human vision ratio of 2:1 and gives a grand, detailed view into the world, landscape is a silly 5:1+ ratio like looking out through a slit in the window blinds. 2/3's of the worlds detail is wasted on largely fish'eyed peripheral vision which is naturally unclear. With only 1080 vertical pixels the entire width of the display, you lack any sort of detail in the world completely.
> 
> Review sites have all rated this screen very highly, and in testing it _demolishes_ my previous setups. All three of my samples are excellent. From where I am sitting, Eizo's QC is great. Developing a strobing backlight VA panel is a revolution. If you are sore about the price and cannot afford them, that is no reason to knock the display. It is not cheap coming out with these new models.


Not sore about the price. Just stating its very expensive considering the list of pros and cons and considering you might get a bad one.. Thats outstanding.

I feel that users should get another non biased view of the monitor instead of applause for this just because your pushing it. Yes it is a new monitor in the frontiers of gaming.. But I feel its a stepping stone, not a need to leap on it.. Its for a VERY small niche market.. not the common gaming scene. This is my view.. Don't hate me cuz you aint me..


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *neelrocker*
> 
> - lack of red: this seems common to all fg2421 when talking about color accuracy.
> 
> - about 15-20ms latency, but seems obvious the way sharper image of an animated scene outweight by far this "higher than best TN" latency.


Have you the Eizo FG2421 ?

I dont understan but this model have around 13ms or 18ms of input lag ?
Because 13 is acceptable but 18-20 is unplayble for competitive multiplayer FPS.


----------



## neelrocker

Just rounded 18 to 20. Nobody could feel the difference between both anyway. The input lag is lower with strobe off but if you buy this monitor you most likely want to use its turbo feature.


----------



## MicroMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> And this is evident ? can be a problem ?


The response time decrease with increased temperature on all lcd-displays I guess.

My eizo is currently placed in a room that I keep cold at night, so for me it is a noticeable difference when heated up.

Not a problem really, but it would be interesting to know the ideal temperature for best response time. I will check with my IR-meter later.


----------



## ridebird

senna, if you can feel a noticeable difference of 5ms in input lag, you really should not be playing computer games, you should be an astronaut.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> I feel that users should get another non biased view of the monitor instead of applause for this just because your pushing it.


What a completely silly statement. These are my first Eizo monitors and I have no affiliation with Eizo. I only rate monitors highly when they deserve so. I am critical of many products out there. If the Eizo's didn't perform, they would have been returned immediately. I have recieved monitors and within two minutes of turning them on they have been packed up and shipped back. I don't put up with inferior products.

I've owned and reviewed dozens of monitors over the last decade and pride myself on providing decent advise and being objective. Having a sample size of three and all having good quality, I can only go off of that. Random people putting out one sentance blurbs about "this" or "that"on their sample isn't very reliable. I get it, for you the monitor price is high and you don't think it is worth it. Thats wonderful, no need to continuously harp on it. There are plenty of other monitors out there for you to buy.


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> What a completely silly statement. These are my first Eizo monitors and I have no affiliation with Eizo. I only rate monitors highly when they deserve so. I am critical of many products out there. If the Eizo's didn't perform, they would have been returned immediately. I have recieved monitors and within two minutes of turning them on they have been packed up and shipped back. I don't put up with inferior products.
> 
> I've owned and reviewed dozens of monitors over the last decade and pride myself on providing decent advise and being objective. Having a sample size of three and all having good quality, I can only go off of that. Random people putting out one sentance blurbs about "this" or "that"on their sample isn't very reliable. I get it, for you the monitor price is high and you don't think it is worth it. Thats wonderful, no need to continuously harp on it. There are plenty of other monitors out there for you to buy.


Geez matey relax. , I can see its not often people step up to the plate with you.. Accept some criticism mate. It'll make you tougher..

Anyway. Let the price thing go mate.. Ive never said its out of my price range.. Look at my sig.. I can afford it. I just defiantly don't want it.. Its nice and all, and you seem really happy as you didnt pack these up within a minute, and it seems you were lucky not to get horrible light bleed or stoopid cross hatching monitor with your 3. Good for you mate.. But its obvious others didn't get so lucky and that shows to me a companies flaw. .. But that's as far as they go. Its a monitor with a few to many cons vs pro to make people think that this is THE monitor for them.. It's probably been rushed out to beat the gsync market.. Ill be very interested to see how long you keep these.. Very interested.


----------



## Shogon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> Geez matey relax. , I can see its not often people step up to the plate with you.. Accept some criticism mate. It'll make you tougher..
> 
> Anyway. Let the price thing go mate.. Ive never said its out of my price range.. Look at my sig.. I can afford it. I just defiantly don't want it.. Its nice and all, and you seem really happy as you didnt pack these up within a minute, and it seems you were lucky not to get horrible light bleed or stoopid cross hatching monitor with your 3. Good for you mate.. But its obvious others didn't get so lucky and that shows to me a companies flaw. .. But that's as far as they go. Its a monitor with a few to many cons vs pro to make people think that this is THE monitor for them.. It's probably been rushed out to beat the gsync market.. Ill be very interested to see how long you keep these.. Very interested.


So where are these accounts at? All I see is text, and nothing to validate that text. Linking stuff makes you tougher..on teh webz.


----------



## Hefner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogon*
> 
> So where are these accounts at? All I see is text, and nothing to validate that text. Linking stuff makes you tougher..on teh webz.


The general response is very mixed at multiple places. How can you not see this? Do you think they're all trolls?


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogon*
> 
> So where are these accounts at? All I see is text, and nothing to validate that text. Linking stuff makes you tougher..on teh webz.


It's been stated in this topic within a few pages back from here. looking for yourself makes you really tough too. haha. I know cuz I do it myself all the time.


----------



## Shogon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hefner*
> 
> The general response is very mixed at multiple places. How can you not see this? Do you think they're all trolls?


If I knew what "places" you were talking about that would make things go much faster. I haven't mastered telepathy you know.

I don't consider people trolls, just unwilling to write what they think or believe in a better manner so that others can actually take something from it for both good and bad. The only thing I've taken from his comments are, "you are lucky", "others are not lucky", and maybe the color reproduction.


----------



## l88bastar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> This monitor is over rated... 23.5 inch at $800 AU times 3 for a little setup with what sounds to be like very poor R and D support. Ive seen more people with bad monitors than good ones. There should be none.. Not some..


I hope all of those "bad" returned FG2421s cause Eizo to lower the price.....because I would like to buy two more and do my own portrait setup








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> It's been stated in this topic within a few pages back from here. looking for yourself makes you really tough too. haha. I know cuz I do it myself all the time.


So hold on, have you actually tried the Eizo FG2421? Because if you have not you need to stop talking right now. The FG2421 is the FW900 of LCDs. It is the best LCD display that I have ever owned and I have tried them all.


----------



## ridebird

I posted an image showing my edge bleed Shogon. It's a few pages back.

Eizo technician himself stated my case was extreme and I got a replacement. There are issues with these monitors but it seems like this might not be as big of an issue in the US, for some reason. You can lower black levels to about 41-45 and the issue is apparently much less apparent. I haven't tried it myself with my replacement yet as UPS is being UPS.


----------



## karkee

Well my asus 24" 144hz broke, should I get this eizo or another asus ?

Real opinions pls


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> Bad monitors.. Well just flip back a few pages on this very forum.. That pic of the monitor that was posted is a deterrent for many right away.. Not sure Id like to buy a Porsche and hope I get a good paint job with mine..I'd damn well insist on it.. I never said its expensive for me.. I said its expensive period. Most people will look at the pro and con list and walk away from this. Regardless of whats on the list of goodies.. Gsync is to tempting over this monitor.. And you're accepting to be giving a bad monitor.. No way. Don't believe you said that, In this world if you don't produce you don't match up to the competition.. ..
> Not sore about the price. Just stating its very expensive considering the list of pros and cons and considering you might get a bad one.. Thats outstanding.
> 
> I feel that users should get another non biased view of the monitor instead of applause for this just because your pushing it. Yes it is a new monitor in the frontiers of gaming.. But I feel its a stepping stone, not a need to leap on it.. Its for a VERY small niche market.. not the common gaming scene. This is my view.. Don't hate me cuz you aint me..


Viable G-sync panels are a year away @ best... The asus one? Meh... Iv'e seen that panel irl many times, i think it looks terrible. & that's comparing it to my 200$ IPS LED AOC's.


----------



## stren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> Geez matey relax. , I can see its not often people step up to the plate with you.. Accept some criticism mate. It'll make you tougher..
> 
> Anyway. Let the price thing go mate.. Ive never said its out of my price range.. Look at my sig.. I can afford it. I just defiantly don't want it.. Its nice and all, and you seem really happy as you didnt pack these up within a minute, and it seems you were lucky not to get horrible light bleed or stoopid cross hatching monitor with your 3. Good for you mate.. But its obvious others didn't get so lucky and that shows to me a companies flaw. .. But that's as far as they go. Its a monitor with a few to many cons vs pro to make people think that this is THE monitor for them.. It's probably been rushed out to beat the gsync market.. Ill be very interested to see how long you keep these.. Very interested.


To be fair *mate* you're the one accusing Vega of bias. There's a difference between accepting positive criticism and making unsubstantiated accusations of bias. I review plenty of other things but not monitors, but still Vega is my go to source for actual unbiased high performance monitor reviews because I don't trust the mainstream sites, which by the way sometimes have freelance writers employed by the manufacturer. Vega isn't AFAIK payed by anyone in the tech industry and funds all of this on his own dime. You may not always agree with his opinion, after all what he values and what you value may be different but almost no one has been through the experience that Vega has. It sounds like your major beef is with running in portrait mode not with vega's review. Vega's review focused on his samples which as he said had good quality control. If you don't like portrait mode, then don't run it but don't blame a monitor or someone helping out the community with a detailed review because of your preference. As tech stands right now though if you want a high resolution uber smooth gaming setup, then some kind of 3 or 5 way lightboost (or strobed) display in portrait is the *only* way to get that.


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ridebird*
> 
> senna, if you can feel a noticeable difference of 5ms in input lag, you really should not be playing computer games, you should be an astronaut.


5ms no i dont notice but 18ms YES I CAN NOTICE IT IN EVERY MOVEMENTS !!!


----------



## mdrejhon

I see a few people expressing opinions in a way that other people is reacting strongly at, so....
To calm this conversation down, let's remember a few things; that everybody is different:

-- Even a person can't feel 5ms of input lag, some competitive gamers reacting at the same time, 200ms vs 200ms, the extra 5ms may give you a reaction-time edge (e.g. being the first person to frag during shoot-simultaneously situations). It's like the 100 meter race -- the one with a few milliseconds less lag can be the one more likely to get the frag, when evenly matched against a human with the same reaction time.

-- Some people are more sensitive to colors than others. LightBoost also has some nasty color degradation issues too, which must be weighed against the Eizo pros/cons, etc. Certain attributes are more important to some people than others. (Particularly noteworthy is that, statistically, up to ~8% of human population is color blind, however, a bigger percentage than that has "less-than-aveage" sensitivity to color)

-- Other people are more sensitive to motion. These people are the ones that use LightBoost 24/7, even at desktop, despite color quality degradation.

-- Everybody earns a different level of money, which can turn an expensive Eizo into a simple spending impulse, or a cheap used VG248QE into a expensive "deal-with-soul" purchase. Other times, it's still expensive but you might have a good ability to resell, such as resell before it devalues too much (e.g. buy at $600, resell at $500). This can raise/lower a person's comfort level to do a specific hardware purchase. Let's remember that high-end monitors used to cost >$1000. Twenty years ago, I saved up for few months & paid $1250 for a Samsung Syncmaster 17GLSi when everyone was still using 13" and 14" CRT monitors. Even now, Eizo FG2421, size-wise and resolution-wise, can even be a preferable monitor to own today (if $250 LightBoost monitors did not exist and $100 IPS monitors didn't exist). Today we consider anything $300+ as a high-end monitor. It's all relative.

-- Landscape versus portrait. Let's remember three portrait is still wider than one landscape, and let's remember flight simulators and racing games work great with multi monitor -- the bezel lines are just like airplane window bezels, or windowpane frames, or car's frame or roll cage. So the bezel lines actually doesn't wreck realism for these specific use cases. Even TN color shift could be dismissable as simulated window refraction issues. Etc. For person "A" rather than person "B", a zero-motion-blur bezelled setup can be preferable to a heavily-motion-blurred bezel-free bigger screen setup. It could be vice-versa. Some of us don't use one-size-fits-all monitors but own two. Sometimes we use a 1440p IPS QNIX monitor for PhotoShop/Visual Studio, and then switch to our 1080p LightBoost for our FPS games. It's all a matter of perspective and how you look at everything.

-- The flaws of a monitor have different importances to different people. There's panel-lottery issues on all monitors. The corner scanlines-issue on VG248QE's is another example of a common panel-lottery issue afflicting that monitor (affecting probably more than half of them, apparently). TN versus IPS contains a lot of well known things (e.g. viewing angles versus response/strobing ability). It can be less major than other types of flaws of a monitor. The low-IRE non-uniformities of VA panels may be a lesser evil to a specific person, than the overall colorfulness and contrast-ratio of the panel itself. The viewing angles can be more important or less important than the motion quality (e.g. motion blur, ghosting). Etc.

So let's respect individual preferences. For a long time (ever since my Arduino Scanning Backlight in mid-2012), I've been thumping my chest about the importance of motion blur to some people, and industry is only finally addressing this problem (LightBoost, EIZO Turbo240, BENQ Blur Reduction, NVIDIA G-Sync optional strobe mode) -- by providing options to people like me and others who find this to be a very important attribute. This is what makes FG2421 so impressive -- it brings you LightBoost quality motion blur reduction (at least comparable to LightBoost=70% with less ghosting than an older XL2420T's but more ghosting than a newer VG248QE's) -- in a non-TN panel for the first time in today's industry. Despite whatever flaws there is, this is a commendable move by EIZO to break out of "TN hell" (despite whatever VA flaws and all). Happy people do usually fewer posts than complaining people, as the statistics show about people posting on forums.


----------



## karkee

I just got the eizo monitor and I don't know if I want to keep it.

The biggest problem its like sooo bright even if I turn down the brightness alot. The colors are also very weird like everything is washed out.

I tried different settings but can't seem to find it. I mean dark blue is almost white lol, dont know how to describe it.

Do I need to install the drivers or something or windows default enough?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karkee*
> 
> I just got the eizo monitor and I don't know if I want to keep it.
> 
> The biggest problem its like sooo bright even if I turn down the brightness alot. The colors are also very weird like everything is washed out.
> 
> I tried different settings but can't seem to find it. I mean dark blue is almost white lol, dont know how to describe it.
> 
> Do I need to install the drivers or something or windows default enough?


Brightness adjustment range is an increasing problem for many monitors. Blur Busters likes to see a monitor able to adjust down to below 10cd/m2 -- and not many can do that.

1 -- Reset NVIDIA Control Panel Desktop Color back to defaults. (midpoints for color adjustments)
2 -- Enable "Turbo240" in Advanced Menu which darkens everything
3 -- Set "Brightness" downwards, but keep Black Level at 50 and Contrast at 50
4 -- Raise Gamma to about 2.4 or 2.6 which will darken the mid-colors and make them more saturated-looking.
5 -- Set Color Temperature to 6500K (It will look temporarily orange, but close your eyes for 30 seconds or step away, and look again -- now it looks normal).

Further calibration will help, but these will quickly get you into a better ballpark.


----------



## Rickles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> I see a few people expressing opinions in a way that other people is reacting strongly at, so....
> To calm this conversation down, let's remember a few things; that everybody is different:
> 
> -- Even a person can't feel 5ms of input lag, some competitive gamers reacting at the same time, 200ms vs 200ms, the extra 5ms may give you a reaction-time edge (e.g. being the first person to frag during shoot-simultaneously situations). It's like the 100 meter race -- the one with a few milliseconds less lag can be the one more likely to get the frag, when evenly matched against a human with the same reaction time.
> 
> -- Some people are more sensitive to colors than others. LightBoost also has some nasty color degradation issues too, which must be weighed against the Eizo pros/cons, etc. Certain attributes are more important to some people than others. (Particularly noteworthy is that, statistically, up to ~8% of human population is color blind, however, a bigger percentage than that has "less-than-aveage" sensitivity to color)
> 
> -- Other people are more sensitive to motion. These people are the ones that use LightBoost 24/7, even at desktop, despite color quality degradation.
> 
> -- Everybody earns a different level of money, which can turn an expensive Eizo into a simple spending impulse, or a cheap used VG248QE into a expensive "deal-with-soul" purchase. Other times, it's still expensive but you might have a good ability to resell, such as resell before it devalues too much (e.g. buy at $600, resell at $500). This can raise/lower a person's comfort level to do a specific hardware purchase. Let's remember that high-end monitors used to cost >$1000. Twenty years ago, I saved up for few months & paid $1250 for a Samsung Syncmaster 17GLSi when everyone was still using 13" and 14" CRT monitors. Even now, Eizo FG2421, size-wise and resolution-wise, can even be a preferable monitor to own today (if $250 LightBoost monitors did not exist and $100 IPS monitors didn't exist). Today we consider anything $300+ as a high-end monitor. It's all relative.
> 
> -- Landscape versus portrait. Let's remember three portrait is still wider than one landscape, and let's remember flight simulators and racing games work great with multi monitor -- the bezel lines are just like airplane window bezels, or windowpane frames, or car's frame or roll cage. So the bezel lines actually doesn't wreck realism for these specific use cases. Even TN color shift could be dismissable as simulated window refraction issues. Etc. For person "A" rather than person "B", a zero-motion-blur bezelled setup can be preferable to a heavily-motion-blurred bezel-free bigger screen setup. It could be vice-versa. Some of us don't use one-size-fits-all monitors but own two. Sometimes we use a 1440p IPS QNIX monitor for PhotoShop/Visual Studio, and then switch to our 1080p LightBoost for our FPS games. It's all a matter of perspective and how you look at everything.
> 
> -- The flaws of a monitor have different importances to different people. There's panel-lottery issues on all monitors. The corner scanlines-issue on VG248QE's is another example of a common panel-lottery issue afflicting that monitor (affecting probably more than half of them, apparently). TN versus IPS contains a lot of well known things (e.g. viewing angles versus response/strobing ability). It can be less major than other types of flaws of a monitor. The low-IRE non-uniformities of VA panels may be a lesser evil to a specific person, than the overall colorfulness and contrast-ratio of the panel itself. The viewing angles can be more important or less important than the motion quality (e.g. motion blur, ghosting). Etc.
> 
> So let's respect individual preferences. For a long time (ever since my Arduino Scanning Backlight in mid-2012), I've been thumping my chest about the importance of motion blur to some people, and industry is only finally addressing this problem (LightBoost, EIZO Turbo240, BENQ Blur Reduction, NVIDIA G-Sync optional strobe mode) -- by providing options to people like me and others who find this to be a very important attribute. This is what makes FG2421 so impressive -- it brings you LightBoost quality motion blur reduction (at least comparable to LightBoost=70% with less ghosting than an older XL2420T's but more ghosting than a newer VG248QE's) -- in a non-TN panel for the first time in today's industry. Despite whatever flaws there is, this is a commendable move by EIZO to break out of "TN hell" (despite whatever VA flaws and all). *Happy people do usually fewer posts than complaining people, as the statistics show about people posting on forums.*


And awesome people do post like this.

+Rep


----------



## karkee

I tried almost everything the monitor is nice but theres a grey tint over everything almost I just cant get good colors even my benq TN is alot better.

There is this huge grey tint all over the monitor, so annoying thinking of returning for an asus 144hz instead I really like the non ag coating though


----------



## jincuteguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I always do multi-display setups of many many types and brands. I am a salesman for the entire display industry.
> 
> I do not web surf on any multi-monitor display in portrait, hence you can see my monitor swing arm on the right of my photo. Portrait is for gaming, which is superlative. If you think portrait is no good, I think landscape multi-monitor is even worse. Portrait is much closer to the natural human vision ratio of 2:1 and gives a grand, detailed view into the world, landscape is a silly 5:1+ ratio like looking out through a slit in the window blinds. 2/3's of the worlds detail is wasted on largely fish'eyed peripheral vision which is naturally unclear. With only 1080 vertical pixels the entire width of the display, you lack any sort of detail in the world completely.
> 
> Review sites have all rated this screen very highly, and in testing it _demolishes_ my previous setups. All three of my samples are excellent. From where I am sitting, Eizo's QC is great. Developing a strobing backlight VA panel is a revolution. If you are sore about the price and cannot afford them, that is no reason to knock the display. It is not cheap coming out with these new models.


I agree with you, I hate all of the landscape multi monitor setup i.e the ones that usually at Amd booth with Eyefinity. Portrait multi monitors look a lot better imo. It's more proportional compare to the landscape setup.


----------



## MicroMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> I see a few people expressing opinions in a way that other people is reacting strongly at, so....
> To calm this conversation down, let's remember a few things; that everybody is different:
> ...


Nice...









Got a question about warming up vs response time. Have you ever looked into this ?

Here's my measurement of my eizo panel temperature over time currently located in a cold room.

Minutes - Celsius

0 - 17.9
1 - 18.2
2 - 18.4
3 - 18.6
4 - 18.8
5 - 19.1
6 - 19.3
7 - 19.5
8 - 19.7
9 - 19.9

10 - 20.2
15 - 21.7
20 - 23.0
25 - 24.2
30 - 25.1
35 - 26.0
40 - 26.7
45 - 27.1
50 - 27.5
55 - 27.9
60 - 28.1
65 - 28.5
70 - 28.6
75 - 28.7
80 - 28.9
85 - 29.0
90 - 29.2
95 - 29.2

100 - 29.2

About 90 minutes before the curve flats out.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karkee*
> 
> There is this huge grey tint all over the monitor, so annoying thinking of returning for an asus 144hz instead I really like the non ag coating though


Does this happen to you at night, too?
I'd like to understand why you're getting a grey tint. There are pros and cons I clearly see, but grey tint isn't occuring on mine.

-- Grey tints can also be caused by coatings, especially with a bright wall behind you, which means the reflection creates the grey tint. Verify this.
-- Grey tints can also be caused by a gamma that's too "bright". Raise gamma to 2.8 to darken the midlights and dark colors.
-- If your brightness is too bright, lower Brightness while keeping Contrast 50, Black Level 50, and Color Temperature 6500K


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroMouse*
> 
> Nice...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got a question about warming up vs response time. Have you ever looked into this ?


Yes.
I notice pixel response behavior changes quite significantly on FG2421 during warm-up.
Definitely need to give the monitor a full-warm up for all the ghosting to disappear.

I see LCD response behavior change on all the other monitors (TN, IPS), they are all much slower when cold, and show more visible overdrive artifacts. The FG2421 shows the temperature-warmup overdrive effect more than the average LCD monitor.


----------



## Morkai

As i have posted elsewhere, i managed to get one of mine stuck in a bugged mode where everything was washed out and way too bright (imagine the bleeding of lets say 400% brightness). This mode looked like what some people with problems describe. Video playback also looked like it had huge pixel dithering.

This was a fixable software/hardware bug, though.

Try:
Use CRU and reset all monitors and reboot (this fixed it for me, maybe because i had used it for lightboost previously and that bugged the eizo).
Try clean install of graphic drivers ( I did that, too, before resetting)
Install monitor driver just in case, if you haven't
Make sure its running at 120hz (possibly try different connectors dp/dvi - i got this bug when switching between dp/dvi).
Disconnect extra inputs (I did that, as well).

This monitor should look REALLY good or at least equal compared to pretty much any other LCD (should give at least a small "wow" feeling in dim/dark light - picture quality roughly equal to a budget plasma), if it doesn't, something is wrong.
The minor weakeness in red is certainly not something that will make you go "yeah, reds suck", its only noticable next to a reference quality monitor or when using a tool to measure color accuracy. It is also less apparent if you use the settings from one of the reviews.

Hope this helps someone.
After almost two weeks now with these monitors, my original impression is unchanged: by far the best lcd for gaming, by far the best LCD for overall use.
Only people who must have 100% perfect color accuracy at all costs need to look elsewhere.


----------



## MicroMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karkee*
> 
> I tried almost everything the monitor is nice but theres a grey tint over everything almost I just cant get good colors even my benq TN is alot better.
> 
> There is this huge grey tint all over the monitor, so annoying thinking of returning for an asus 144hz instead I really like the non ag coating though


There's a huge amount of possible adjustments on the eizo. I have been using the eizo side by side with the benq xl2411t for many hours trying out nearly every possible settings on both of them, resulting in me regretting buying the eizo in the first place. Why ? I then would not know what I was missing. TN panels do red and blue better and yes, there is a tiny amount of crosshatching and VA-bleed on the eizo. I don't really care. Overall the best monitor I have ever had. There is one thing I will be missing. I like playing pinball in 3d. I don't think the eizo work with 3d. This is great on the benq, but it doesn't come close to the eizo if summing up pros and cons.

I suggest you give it a good try. I was somehow in the same boat as you are now in the beginning. Just experiment.

If you end up not liking it and have the option to return it, you should do that. It's too expensive to have lying around.


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> I see a few people expressing opinions in a way that other people is reacting strongly at, so....
> To calm this conversation down, let's remember a few things; that everybody is different:
> 
> -- Even a person can't feel 5ms of input lag, some competitive gamers reacting at the same time, 200ms vs 200ms, the extra 5ms may give you a reaction-time edge (e.g. being the first person to frag during shoot-simultaneously situations). It's like the 100 meter race -- the one with a few milliseconds less lag can be the one more likely to get the frag, when evenly matched against a human with the same reaction time.
> 
> -- Some people are more sensitive to colors than others. LightBoost also has some nasty color degradation issues too, which must be weighed against the Eizo pros/cons, etc. Certain attributes are more important to some people than others. (Particularly noteworthy is that, statistically, up to ~8% of human population is color blind, however, a bigger percentage than that has "less-than-aveage" sensitivity to color)
> 
> -- Other people are more sensitive to motion. These people are the ones that use LightBoost 24/7, even at desktop, despite color quality degradation.
> 
> -- Everybody earns a different level of money, which can turn an expensive Eizo into a simple spending impulse, or a cheap used VG248QE into a expensive "deal-with-soul" purchase. Other times, it's still expensive but you might have a good ability to resell, such as resell before it devalues too much (e.g. buy at $600, resell at $500). This can raise/lower a person's comfort level to do a specific hardware purchase. Let's remember that high-end monitors used to cost >$1000. Twenty years ago, I saved up for few months & paid $1250 for a Samsung Syncmaster 17GLSi when everyone was still using 13" and 14" CRT monitors. Even now, Eizo FG2421, size-wise and resolution-wise, can even be a preferable monitor to own today (if $250 LightBoost monitors did not exist and $100 IPS monitors didn't exist). Today we consider anything $300+ as a high-end monitor. It's all relative.
> 
> -- Landscape versus portrait. Let's remember three portrait is still wider than one landscape, and let's remember flight simulators and racing games work great with multi monitor -- the bezel lines are just like airplane window bezels, or windowpane frames, or car's frame or roll cage. So the bezel lines actually doesn't wreck realism for these specific use cases. Even TN color shift could be dismissable as simulated window refraction issues. Etc. For person "A" rather than person "B", a zero-motion-blur bezelled setup can be preferable to a heavily-motion-blurred bezel-free bigger screen setup. It could be vice-versa. Some of us don't use one-size-fits-all monitors but own two. Sometimes we use a 1440p IPS QNIX monitor for PhotoShop/Visual Studio, and then switch to our 1080p LightBoost for our FPS games. It's all a matter of perspective and how you look at everything.
> 
> -- The flaws of a monitor have different importances to different people. There's panel-lottery issues on all monitors. The corner scanlines-issue on VG248QE's is another example of a common panel-lottery issue afflicting that monitor (affecting probably more than half of them, apparently). TN versus IPS contains a lot of well known things (e.g. viewing angles versus response/strobing ability). It can be less major than other types of flaws of a monitor. The low-IRE non-uniformities of VA panels may be a lesser evil to a specific person, than the overall colorfulness and contrast-ratio of the panel itself. The viewing angles can be more important or less important than the motion quality (e.g. motion blur, ghosting). Etc.
> 
> So let's respect individual preferences. For a long time (ever since my Arduino Scanning Backlight in mid-2012), I've been thumping my chest about the importance of motion blur to some people, and industry is only finally addressing this problem (LightBoost, EIZO Turbo240, BENQ Blur Reduction, NVIDIA G-Sync optional strobe mode) -- by providing options to people like me and others who find this to be a very important attribute. This is what makes FG2421 so impressive -- it brings you LightBoost quality motion blur reduction (at least comparable to LightBoost=70% with less ghosting than an older XL2420T's but more ghosting than a newer VG248QE's) -- in a non-TN panel for the first time in today's industry. Despite whatever flaws there is, this is a commendable move by EIZO to break out of "TN hell" (despite whatever VA flaws and all). Happy people do usually fewer posts than complaining people, as the statistics show about people posting on forums.


Ok but you cant speak about gaming monitor if input lag is high, it can be ultra smoother and exception in all sectors but if input lag is hight all things became useless.

*0-5-10ms is ok or little more u can adapt about but not over.
SO ..... input lag of this Eizo i dont unerstand if is 13ms or 18-20ms.*

*The answer is* : This Eizo model is absolute competitive with the actual VG248QE or XL2420TE for FPS gaming and motion smooth ? Specially for MP FPS or Racing games.


----------



## PCM2

You have to be clear, when talking about input lag, what exactly you're talking about. Most of the time when people speak of input lag they are interested in the _signal delay_ which affects how the monitor _feels_ in response to user input. There is additional latency caused by the pixel responses themselves which affects what you _see_. TFT Central and PRAD both quite clearly separate these two out, with TFT Central being particularly open about their methodology. The signal delay, what you will be thinking of as input lag and what I like to call 'raw input lag' on the EIZO is around 10ms without Turbo 240 on and around 14ms with it on.

I tend to agree with lots of other users on here. For the majority of users the input lag on the EIZO is not a problem and the overall smooth visual experience is more important. To give an extreme example you could have a 60Hz VA panel with 'zero input lag' (signal delay) but horrendous levels of ghosting to go with its inherent refresh rate limitations. It's hardly going to make you a gaming king just because it starts responding to your inputs very quickly. Then again I can see the benefit of 'every millisecond' in some situations, as Mark quite rightly pointed out. This is a personal thing really and saying it isn't a good gaming monitor because it has a bit more input lag than some other monitor isn't really painting the whole picture.


----------



## neelrocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroMouse*
> 
> Nice...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got a question about warming up vs response time. Have you ever looked into this ?
> 
> Here's my measurement of my eizo panel temperature over time currently located in a cold room.
> 
> Minutes - Celsius
> 
> 0 - 17.9
> -
> 100 - 29.2
> 
> About 90 minutes before the curve flats out.


Wow









TBH I was about to laugh at you when you talked about response time vs temp a few posts up but now I see how serious the problem is. I was expecting a few ms difference between cold & warm, so I'm surprised to see it is much more than I expected. Thanks for sharing your info.

*edit* Oops read too fast, I though it was minutes - milliseconds (response time) !


----------



## jincuteguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karkee*
> 
> I just got the eizo monitor and I don't know if I want to keep it.
> 
> The biggest problem its like sooo bright even if I turn down the brightness alot. The colors are also very weird like everything is washed out.
> 
> I tried different settings but can't seem to find it. I mean dark blue is almost white lol, dont know how to describe it.
> 
> Do I need to install the drivers or something or windows default enough?


Where did you buy it? And you're sure fhey will let you return it for a refund?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> around 14ms with it on.


It measures closer to ~19ms with the Blur Busters Input Lag Tester. However, this measures the chain from video output (video buffer page flip), to the pixels hitting human retinas (photodiode). So my measurement includes the LCD response time added on top of cable latency and monitor processing.

Compare this to ASUS/BENQ LightBoost's ~11ms average (11ms top/11ms center/11ms bottom), and ASUS/BENQ non-LightBoost ~7ms average (3ms top/7ms center/11ms bottom). Bear in mind, these are measurements from GPU framebuffer pageflip timing to pixels hitting retinas (passing its 50% midpoint of pixel transition).


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> It measures closer to ~19ms with the Blur Busters Input Lag Tester. However, this measures the chain from video output (video buffer page flip), to the pixels hitting human retinas (photodiode). So my measurement includes the LCD response time added on top of cable latency and monitor processing.
> 
> Compare this to ASUS/BENQ LightBoost's ~11ms average (11ms top/11ms center/11ms bottom), and ASUS/BENQ non-LightBoost ~7ms average (3ms top/7ms center/11ms bottom). Bear in mind, these are measurements from GPU framebuffer pageflip timing to pixels hitting retinas (passing its 50% midpoint of pixel transition).


19ms with Turbo 240 on is very close to what TFT Central measured if you include the signal delay + response time (18ms)







. It's really nice to have a proper comparison with like for like values with the 144Hz TN models and also to point out that input lag can vary depending on where on the screen you're measuring it. This reinforces why I hate people obsessing about input lag without actually understanding how the figures they're looking at are derived or what they actually mean.


----------



## skupples

Seems I have allot to learn in this area between now & the time I upgrade my current aoc e2752vh' x3 setup. @ this point, for me I guess ignorance is bliss, as I have no idea what something better then these look. Also, paying 100$ a piece, when they retail ~199$ is a +++









I would love to flip them into portrait, but these damned Ergotech Vesa mounts are SO GOD DAMNED HARD TO ROTATE that it would likely break my cold weld job on the vesa mounts.

for those who have not experienced these mounts, they have multiple rotational pivot points. The one i'm speaking about is i guess the "tilt"


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> 19ms with Turbo 240 on is very close to what TFT Central measured if you include the signal delay + response time (18ms)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . It's really nice to have a proper comparison with like for like values with the 144Hz TN models and also to point out that input lag can vary depending on where on the screen you're measuring it. This reinforces why I hate people obsessing about input lag without actually understanding how the figures they're looking at are derived or what they actually mean.


Yes, the 19ms value is consistent with both TFTCentral and FrazPC:
*FrazPC review here, in Polish*


----------



## karkee

I will try again tomorrow, but for now it feels really weird. The colours on the edges are washed out and the brightness is just way to bright even if I turn it down to like 25 or something...

I tried using CRU, maybi I should reinstall nvidia drivers but I doubt that will do anything.

If I can't get it to work tomorrow I will go for the benq xl2420T 144hz for now...


----------



## Gregix

I just wanna add, for all whiners about input lag...
I bet u saw this... :


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gregix*
> 
> I just wanna add, for all whiners about input lag...
> I bet u saw this... :


these report is totally false, and made by THG


----------



## karkee

This morning I tried to set the colours again and I must say I would be happy if I got get the greyness away in the corners.

All the corners over the entire border of the screen have a huge grey tint to it, if I move my head a little it gets better if you know what I mean but its even worse than a TN...

I don't know if I want to try and replace it or if I should get an Asus or benQ...


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Yes.
> I notice pixel response behavior changes quite significantly on FG2421 during warm-up.
> Definitely need to give the monitor a full-warm up for all the ghosting to disappear.
> 
> I see LCD response behavior change on all the other monitors (TN, IPS), they are all much slower when cold, and show more visible overdrive artifacts. The FG2421 shows the temperature-warmup overdrive effect more than the average LCD monitor.


LOOK THIS :
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroMouse*
> 
> Nice...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Got a question about warming up vs response time. Have you ever looked into this ?
> 
> Here's my measurement of my eizo panel temperature over time currently located in a cold room.
> 
> Minutes - Celsius
> 
> 0 - 17.9
> 1 - 18.2
> 2 - 18.4
> 3 - 18.6
> 4 - 18.8
> 5 - 19.1
> 6 - 19.3
> 7 - 19.5
> 8 - 19.7
> 9 - 19.9
> 
> 10 - 20.2
> 15 - 21.7
> 20 - 23.0
> 25 - 24.2
> 30 - 25.1
> 35 - 26.0
> 40 - 26.7
> 45 - 27.1
> 50 - 27.5
> 55 - 27.9
> 60 - 28.1
> 65 - 28.5
> 70 - 28.6
> 75 - 28.7
> 80 - 28.9
> 85 - 29.0
> 90 - 29.2
> 95 - 29.2
> 
> 100 - 29.2
> 
> About 90 minutes before the curve flats out.


I must wait 90 minutes for play correctly ?


----------



## fateswarm

Strobing has nothing on gsync. One can easily see on slow motion videos that stobes just flash some artifacts out of the way, they don't remove them, just make them less apparent.

G-sync on the other hand is a whole new world of genuinely eliminating stuttering and pauses and tearing at the same time without the tradeoffs of getting one without the other.


----------



## neelrocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karkee*
> 
> This morning I tried to set the colours again and I must say I would be happy if I got get the greyness away in the corners.
> 
> All the corners over the entire border of the screen have a huge grey tint to it, if I move my head a little it gets better if you know what I mean but its even worse than a TN...
> 
> I don't know if I want to try and replace it or if I should get an Asus or benQ...


I don't own the fg2421 but I'm afraid what you describe is the gamma shift. Idk if this inherent VA panel flaw can vary a lot or not from one unit to another but I'd be intersted in your feedback if you decide to check with another unit (as I feel this kind of flaw would bother me also, so if that was not your current unit that had a particulary pronounced gamma shift then I would not buy one myself without checking this with my own eyes before).

Have you checked the few pictures already posted on various fg2421 threads to compare if the greyness they show is similar to what you see with your own unit ? Check those below:
http://s12.postimg.org/v0z5dx90t/IMG_0143_JPG_2.jpg
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/234739fg2421gammashifttest2ndowner.jpg
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/425159fg2421gammashift4thower2angles.png

and also in this post:
http://forum.hardware.fr/hfr/HardwarePeripheriques/Ecran/fg2421-premier-moniteur-sujet_61598_4.htm#t750038

and the original picture if you want to try with your own unit:
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/583351gammashifttestrecadr.png


----------



## karkee

Yeah its gamma shift and its pretty bad, I don't know if I want to try with another monitor my friend also has it...

There is also this huge glow all over the screen, brightness at 30 procent its still so weird. This monitor is nothing for me I still don't know what all the fuss its about. Especially the glow is so annoying its way to bright and if you lower the brightness to get it away its to dark.

I think I will just get another asus VG24QE


----------



## MicroMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> I must wait 90 minutes for play correctly ?


Yes. Or you can use a blowtorch to speed things up.









And no. My measurement was done with a room temperature of 16.4 * degrees Celsius and (if I remember correctly) the laws of physics says you will get the temperature up much faster from a higher starting point.

I have not done any measurements of the lc's response time during this, but the difference should be very visible with these:


----------



## neelrocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karkee*
> 
> Yeah its gamma shift and its pretty bad, I don't know if I want to try with another monitor my friend also has it...


You mean your friend also has the fg2421 and you see the same level of greyness on his sample ? (if this is the case, is your friend as disturbed as you are by this ?)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karkee*
> 
> There is also this huge glow all over the screen, brightness at 30 procent its still so weird. This monitor is nothing for me I still don't know what all the fuss its about. Especially the glow is so annoying its way to bright and if you lower the brightness to get it away its to dark.


What do you mean by glow ? Like having fog ? Or halo-like effect for bright elements displayed over dark background ? (=lack of sharpness)

Could you take pictures showing both ? (glow and greyness)


----------



## karkee

Yea its pretty bad gamma shift especially on the right corner and lower, when you play for example league of legends your abilitys below are like so grey its not fun to look at. I tried several settings from TFT central and I just can't get it away.

By glow I mean like halo-like effect the elements stay bright and theres like glowing colors , and not sharp.

I tried many things, reinstalling drivers, CRU reset etc. Resetting the monitor also.

I really don't know if I should trade it for another one but it doesnt seem worth it, and im not really THAT colour minded on the monitor I just liked the non AG part but with these problems its piss poor for 500€


----------



## neelrocker

If you have seen 2 fg2421 and your friend's one expose the same flaws then I don't think a 3rd one would change anything indeed. If you only have seen 1 unit and a replacement would cost nothing but time then why not giving it a try.

I think it's difficult to say if the gamma shift varies from one unit to another due to the fact we only have limited feedback yet and that people may be more or less sensitive to it and may be comparing with something worse if they come from a TN.

As an IPS user I can see the same greyish effect on sides but only if I turn pwm off (brightness 100 and decreasing RGB gain to 17 to compensate). With pwm on (brightness 17 and RGB gains 100) the effect is not there at all for an equivalent brightness level. I wonder if it would be the same regarding this gamma shift issue on the fg2421. Maybe eizo would have been better advised to give the choice to the user to either have pwm at any brightness level or use the current default and only setting the fg2421 offers (pwm only at the lowest brightness levels).


----------



## ridebird

Got my replacement Eizo. Has the same edge bleed, but not as significant. I think this sasmple has quite a lot better colors. There's a bit more punch in them. Lowering black helps with edge bleed, but in my experience anything under 45 had the unfortunate effect of kind of killing black color and making it quite hard to make stuff out in dark scenes - not really great for gaming.

All in all this seems better and the colors look REALLY good on this one, so I'm going to keep it.


----------



## karkee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ridebird*
> 
> Got my replacement Eizo. Has the same edge bleed, but not as significant. I think this sasmple has quite a lot better colors. There's a bit more punch in them. Lowering black helps with edge bleed, but in my experience anything under 45 had the unfortunate effect of kind of killing black color and making it quite hard to make stuff out in dark scenes - not really great for gaming.
> 
> All in all this seems better and the colors look REALLY good on this one, so I'm going to keep it.


Did your first unit also have this really bright glow in it? On mine I have to lower the brightness almost to 30 to even get it somewhat ok. I don't know whats wrong that it has such bright glow its annoying even to look at the monitor + the gamma shift on the corners.


----------



## ridebird

Not in the way you seem to describe it, no. But I like a low brightness anyway. Running this on about 30 now and I think it's almost too bright for desktop use, but good for games. Running gamma 2.4 though.


----------



## karkee

To much trouble and reports from many people im gonna return mine the overshoot and glowyness on the montior + the grey gamma shift I have is just to much. I don't know maybi I could try get another unit but its not worth it. I am just gonna get the rev2 benq instead.


----------



## jeri

hm for 500€ lcd there is alot trouble and reports it seems atm. gonna stay with my asus for while, till gsync at least.


----------



## Jack Mac

I'll stick with my BenQ @50% lightboost until it dies or there's a better version of this monitor for less with motion blur comparable to 50%LB and hopefully equal or lower input lag.


----------



## s1rrah

I have a Benq XL2420T. I use a calibration profile and it's colors are nearly as good as my 1440p IPS/PLS screen.

I tried light boost once and didn't even game with it because the colors were so completely washed out, flat and lifeless that I couldn't even stand looking at it.

I can't see how light boost could be so much better than 120hz native if the colors become so horrible and washed out as they did with lightboost.

If I could use lightboost while maintaining the killer blacks and over all color saturation/contrast that a custom .ICC profile allows then I'd used it maybe but I can really see no point/advantage over standard 120hz if the colors are so destroyed.


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s1rrah*
> 
> I have a Benq XL2420T. I use a calibration profile and it's colors are nearly as good as my 1440p IPS/PLS screen.
> 
> I tried light boost once and didn't even game with it because the colors were so completely washed out, flat and lifeless that I couldn't even stand looking at it.
> 
> I can't see how light boost could be so much better than 120hz native if the colors become so horrible and washed out as they did with lightboost.
> 
> If I could use lightboost while maintaining the killer blacks and over all color saturation/contrast that a custom .ICC profile allows then I'd used it maybe but I can really see no point/advantage over standard 120hz if the colors are so destroyed.


Are you kidding me? The colors look just fine with lightboost, the only thing I notice is that the monitor gets slightly darker. Once you use it, you'll never ever go back. It's just absolutely incredible. If you care so much about colors then you probably shouldn't own a TN. The reduction in motion blur with lightboost is worth it, please use it.


----------



## CallsignVega

With the Eizo you get moderate lightboost motion quality with full VA image quality and no traditional lightboost degredation such as color shift and massive contrast reduction.


----------



## STaRGaZeR69

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> That StarGzer guy above posted the same thing on [H], with 1 post. Look's like he is trolling.


For those interested in the answer to this, go over to [H], displays section, FG2421 thread. I don't really feel like answering to such ******ry again.

If you are an ass-licker like I see some of you are, then save your time and don't go there.

It's really a pity that such an authority behaves like this. It's understandable to be suspicious, but it's not OK to be a dick.


----------



## Rickles

SO the Asus 144hz is now under review on Amazon?

What is wrong with these panels? I am considering selling or trading one of my 7970s for a 120/140hz monitor.
Quote:


> Item Under Review
> 
> While this item is available from other marketplace sellers on this page, it is not currently offered by Amazon.com because customers have told us there may be something wrong with our inventory of the item, the way we are shipping it, or the way it's described here. (Thanks for the tip!)
> 
> We're working to fix the problem as quickly as possible.


Also the Eizo FG2421 is now on Newegg.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rickles*
> 
> SO the Asus 144hz is now under review on Amazon?
> What is wrong with these panels? I am considering selling or trading one of my 7970s for a 120/140hz monitor.


From what appears to says on Amazon:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amazon*
> Item Under Review
> 
> While this item is available from other marketplace sellers on this page, it is not currently offered by Amazon.com because customers have told us there may be something wrong with our inventory of the item, the way we are shipping it, or the way it's described here. (Thanks for the tip!)
> 
> We're working to fix the problem as quickly as possible.


My impression is that there was some form of mis-description, or Amazon shipping problems (e.g. unusual number of damaged items, wrong product shipped, or simply a bad batch of panels). The Amazon sellers are still stocking it, so buying through Amazon still gets you similar return priveleges (returns with no restocking fees). It's one of ASUS' most popular monitors, with a whopping 145 Amazon Customer reviews (several of them apparently mentioning LightBoost and Blur Busters, by the way), so I think it will probably be resolved fairly quickly.

Generally, as long as you get one from a high-rated reseller, I don't think I would worry too much about buying from a different Amazon reseller given they force a generous return policy upon Amazon marketplace sellers -- since they otherwise eventually get disqualified from Amazon if they don't honor customer returns well.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s1rrah*
> 
> I have a Benq XL2420T. I use a calibration profile and it's colors are nearly as good as my 1440p IPS/PLS screen.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> Are you kidding me? The colors look just fine with lightboost, the only thing I notice is that the monitor gets slightly darker. Once you use it, you'll never ever go back. It's just absolutely incredible. If you care so much about colors then you probably shouldn't own a TN. The reduction in motion blur with lightboost is worth it, please use it.


Attention...

(1) There are huge variances in LightBoost quality between different monitors.
For example, the *LightBoost colors* of my ASUS VG278H looks better and more contrasty than the *non-LightBoost colors* of my BENQ XL2411T.
(That said, I did hear the XL2420TE, with the E suffix, has improved this quite a bit over XL2411T.)
LightBoost on XL2411T / VG278H can sometimes be very washed out, they aren't the ideal monitors for color quality during LightBoost, and the older XL2420T has worse LightBoost too as well (although after calibration, often far better colors in non-LightBoost than most other 120Hz monitors). Color quality in non-LightBoost isn't a reliable predictor of color quality during LightBoost. The degradation is dramatic on some (nasty colors, pale blacks on VG248QE) , and degradation is not very noticeable on others (e.g. VG278H) and some other new similar strobe backlights such as EIZO FG2421 (Turbo240) keeps the color quality during strobe mode.

(2) Further improvements to the LightBoost picture can be had, by following the LightBoost FAQ.

(3) Don't forget to test LightBoost motion clarity with www.testufo.com/photo and other tests. To get similar quality in games during turning/panning/strafing, make sure you have a high-quality gaming mouse, correct mouse sensitivity settings (that don't stutter), and triple-digit frame rates.

Among the strobe-backlight models in List of 120Hz Monitors, I've found the ASUS VG278H and Eizo FG2421 to have the best colors, both by my experience & by what I've heard from many users. I've laid my eyes upon XL2411T, VG248QE, VG278H, FG2421, and I've seen three people compare VG278H/VG278HE (the E suffix is better). And BENQ XL2420TE is a newer and better monitor than the XL2411T. Plus, now the Eizo FG2421 is a good compromise if you want great contrast/colors while having LightBoost motion clarity. CallSignVega has played with VG248QE/XL2411T/XL2420TE/VG278HE/XL2720T/FG2421 (yes, all six), and he agreed with my observations.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *STaRGaZeR69*
> 
> For those interested in the answer to this, go over to [H], displays section, FG2421 thread. I don't really feel like answering to such ******ry again.
> 
> If you are an ass-licker like I see some of you are, then save your time and don't go there.
> 
> It's really a pity that such an authority behaves like this. It's understandable to be suspicious, but it's not OK to be a dick.


Calm down there guy. If you've received a bad sample, exchange it and stop whining. Does it suck that you've received a bad panel? Sure. Every single review site I've read, myself with three samples, and plenty of others have great displays. That's life. Oh and by the way even cursing blocked out by asterisks isn't allowed on this site, so unless you wish to end your forum tenure at two posts I suggest you get a grip.


----------



## mdrejhon

Let's remember that both 120Hz+ and strobe backlights really push the limits of many, many LCD's on the market.

Shattering the LCD pixel speed barrier has been nothing short of an engineering miracle in some people's viewpoints, as there has been many people who never thought LCD's could achieve CRT motion clarity, and look at what happened with LightBoost -- the first ever gaming LCD's to achieve PixPerAn Readability Test Score 30, something formerly only possible with CRT's. I've seen worse artifacts on QNIX overclockables and LightBoost monitors than on my current FG2421 sample (imperfections and all). It's pretty impressive that VA has been able to get this far, despite the problems VA technology still has, in general.

However, not everyone can accept the issues that can come with 120Hz territory and/or strobe backlights, and panel issues certainly does occur. Try exchanging your monitor if your monitor is showing issues that other people are not having. Or return, if you prefer not to go through the hassle.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Attention...
> 
> (1) There are huge variances in LightBoost quality between different monitors.
> For example, the *LightBoost colors* of my ASUS VG278H looks better and more contrasty than the *non-LightBoost colors* of my BENQ XL2411T.
> (That said, I did hear the XL2420TE, with the E suffix, has improved this quite a bit over XL2411T.)
> LightBoost on XL2411T / VG278H can sometimes be very washed out, they aren't the ideal monitors for color quality during LightBoost, and the older XL2420T has worse LightBoost too as well (although after calibration, often far better colors in non-LightBoost than most other 120Hz monitors). Color quality in non-LightBoost isn't a reliable predictor of color quality during LightBoost. The degradation is dramatic on some (nasty colors, pale blacks on VG248QE) , and degradation is not very noticeable on others (e.g. VG278H) and some other new similar strobe backlights such as EIZO FG2421 (Turbo240) keeps the color quality during strobe mode.
> .


Thanks for that ...

But yeah, the Benq stock (with calibration profile) is nearly indestinguishable from the 1440p IPS/PLS it sits next too.

With light boost enabled, it's literally as though all the colors become light "pastel" colors or something. Real soft and hardly any contrast.

I'm going to try again, though as the Benq is my primary gaming monitor. When I do, I'll post some before and after screen shots for discussion.

Thanks again,
.joel


----------



## Harrywang

Damn lots of complaints for the eizo monitor. Waiting for the blurbuster review!

If its a good review I'll probably get the eizo, however what do you guys think of g sync?

If I were to get the asus vg248qe right now how would I be able to upgrade to g sync? How will that work? I've read that i have to manually take it apart and add a chip or something?


----------



## glock17pro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s1rrah*
> 
> Thanks for that ...
> 
> But yeah, the Benq stock (with calibration profile) is nearly indestinguishable from the 1440p IPS/PLS it sits next too.
> 
> With light boost enabled, it's literally as though all the colors become light "pastel" colors or something. Real soft and hardly any contrast.
> 
> I'm going to try again, though as the Benq is my primary gaming monitor. When I do, I'll post some before and after screen shots for discussion.
> 
> Thanks again,
> .joel


can you please tell me where to get calibration profile for XL2420TE?best that i found is ICC profile for benq xl2420t but it is still not good enough.i like this monitor but colors look just horrible.even my old 19 inch LG e1940s have better colors.I will be very grateful


----------



## Soulfire

I'd be totally down to take the apparent gamble and order this monitor (with the likelihood of needing a return or two), but the one thing that's really concerning to me is the input lag.

If it's less or not a whole lot more than my current terrible monitor, the ASUS VS247H-P, I'd have no problem with it. I can't find an accurate measurement for the input lag of this monitor for the life of me though.

I don't understand why they make a gaming monitor for $600 and sacrifice the most important thing, input lag.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fateswarm*
> 
> Strobing has nothing on gsync. One can easily see on slow motion videos that stobes just flash some artifacts out of the way, they don't remove them, just make them less apparent.
> G-sync on the other hand is a whole new world of genuinely eliminating stuttering and pauses and tearing at the same time without the tradeoffs of getting one without the other.


G-SYNC includes an optional strobing mode, too.

*G-SYNC mode:* Better for eliminating stutters/tearing, does not eliminate motion blur. Ideal for variable frame rates.

*Strobing mode:* Better for eliminating motion blur, does not eliminate stutters/tearing. Ideal for constant triple-digit frame rates.

Someday, it may be possible to technologically combine the two to get the best-of-both-worlds, but right now it's a choice (one or the other).


----------



## crun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Harrywang*
> 
> Damn lots of complaints for the eizo monitor. Waiting for the blurbuster review!


yeah, way too many complaints and faulty monitors from what I've read. I am still interested in this monitor, but not with this kind of panel lottery. But new revision with better quality control, VESA mount and maybe a bit better red/less input lag? I'm definitely in.

btw. seems they are playing on FG2421 on HSC (



). This event is sponsored by Eizo ofc. I guess that this monitor will be used now instead of FS2333 on gaming tournaments


----------



## Rickles

I see that newegg review vega... sad that most people who read your review will have no idea how many of the best panels you have owned.


----------



## fateswarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Someday, it may be possible to technologically combine the two to get the best-of-both-worlds, but right now it's a choice (one or the other).


Now there is nothing. Nobody can use it outside promos. I'm sure it's going to be complete next year when various monitors will have it.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rickles*
> 
> I see that newegg review vega... sad that most people who read your review will have no idea how many of the best panels you have owned.


Thanks. My three samples are all excellent, so I have to go off of that.









Some more pics:



Above is solid black. Disregard the "haze" at the bottom. that is the camera picking up some light from the stainless steel.

__________________________________________________________



Solid black, total darkness.

_____________________________________________________________



Steam / corner.

_____________________________________________________________




Panel uniformity, image quality and just about every characteristic of my panels are great across the board. All were built on 10/04 if that makes any difference. Maybe I am just lucky!


----------



## Soulfire

How do you feel about the input lag, Vega? It seems like someone like you would really care about that issue.


----------



## CallsignVega

Yes, I do really care about input lag. I've returned every monitor that is above ~20-30ms. Obviously we would all like zero input lag, but with it only having the very slightest hint of input lag unless you are playing the highest end Quake tournament you will have zero issues. Professional players are already using this monitor.


----------



## senna89

Eizo team appointment this model like FPS model while FS2333 for RTS, then the behavior of this monitor during FPS online is not a unimportant thing.

Its right to be doubtful and repeat many times the same thing


----------



## karkee

Well I tried so many settings I just can't get use to it, the monitor just feels to bright and when you lower the brightness alot its just to dark lol, alot of glow on left sides aswell that makes reading on the left annoying. I guess I have a bad model...

And pro players using it? Besides carn pimping it thats pretty much it...


----------



## jeri

they using the new eizo at the homestorycup sc2 right now, but thats always the case to promote the newest model at new events greetings from benq


----------



## dmikester1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> Eizo team appointment this model like FPS model while FS2333 for RTS, then the behavior of this monitor during FPS online is not a unimportant thing.
> 
> Its right to be doubtful and repeat many times the same thing


huh?


----------



## CallsignVega

I've bought the Asus 31.5" IGZO 4K to try out versus the 3x Eizo setup. Should be an interesting comparison.


----------



## Jack Mac

I wouldn't say it's a fair comparison, the ASUS is a gross 60Hz monitor.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> I wouldn't say it's a fair comparison, the ASUS is a gross 60Hz monitor.


Vega apparently uses a fourth display as a sidekick display as a web surfing display, etc.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I've bought the Asus 31.5" IGZO 4K to try out versus the 3x Eizo setup. Should be an interesting comparison.


If at all, it should be your brand new web surfing display -- used as a sidekick fourth display instead of the BENQ XL2420TE. A royal motion blur mess, but wonderful resolution goodness.


----------



## CallsignVega

Oh ya, the TE has been sold off. I must know how 4K looks vs my Eizo setup.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

So I just got a Benq 27xlt w/e and im trying light boost now. It's pretty sick but my monitor has this red tint now that im in this fake 3D mode. How do I get rid of the red tint? I can't calibrate the monitor while im telling it its in 3d mode. If you guys understand what I mean. The little 3D light is on.


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> So I just got a Benq 27xlt w/e and im trying light boost now. It's pretty sick but my monitor has this red tint now that im in this fake 3D mode. How do I get rid of the red tint? I can't calibrate the monitor while im telling it its in 3d mode. If you guys understand what I mean. The little 3D light is on.


I haven't had this issue (or at least I haven't noticed it with my XL2420T, I probably got used to it) but I think you can calibrate your monitor with lightboost off and then turn lightboost on, or you could try and find a ICC profile for lightboost.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

It's pretty noticable. Whites are pink. I'll try setting up some settings prior to light boost. Hopefully if I counter balance it, it will be proper.

Nope. Doesn't fix it. It's not modifying my own display preset and just making it more red. It's like its on its own "3D" preset and I can't change anything. Even though I put a custom mode on with less red, and then turned on light boost, its still just as pinky.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> It's pretty noticable. Whites are pink. I'll try setting up some settings prior to light boost. Hopefully if I counter balance it, it will be proper.
> 
> Nope. Doesn't fix it. It's not modifying my own display preset and just making it more red. It's like its on its own "3D" preset and I can't change anything. Even though I put a custom mode on with less red, and then turned on light boost, its still just as pinky.


For VG248QE, reduce monitor OSD contrast down to 45 percent. That helps erase the purple tint. It reduces the contrast ratio, however.

If you want to get the LightBoost improvements without the major color problems, there are improved strobe backlight options such as the ASUS VG278H (LightBoost), BENQ Blur Reduction in the new XL2720Z (when it arrives). and the Turbo240 in the new EIZO FG2421.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

I have the XL2720T. I literally just bought it. Any suggestions for THAT monitor?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> I have the XL2720T. I literally just bought it. Any suggestions for THAT monitor?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> I have the XL2720T. I literally just bought it. Any suggestions for THAT monitor?


Slowly decrease that monitor's Contrast setting until the tint disappears.
Also, NVIDIA Control Panel Desktop adjustments (adjust the Red channel separately), but that will not carry over into games.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Doesn't really go away. It tones it down a bit, but even at 0, there is still red. When I change the settings in Nvidia CP, nothing happens either.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> Doesn't really go away. It tones it down a bit, but even at 0, there is still red. When I change the settings in Nvidia CP, nothing happens either.


If you are using Windows 8, load Control Panel and search for "Calibrate Display Color" and then run that Wizard. You may have to switch color profiles everytime you switch betwen LightBoost/non-LightBoost, however. Also check out the LightBoost FAQ for other recommendations, including obtaining a colorimeter.

LightBoost is known to have color issues, being likely calibrated for 3D Vision (red/crimson is used to compensate for green tinted shutter glasses) and wasn't always intended to be used for 2D-only motion blur reduction. So we have to fight to undo any LightBoost color distortion. Fortunately, manufacturers are resolving this problem in newer monitors, by allowing strobe backlights to be used independently of 3D glasses use. And calibration of colors during strobed operation will become much better by default.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Thanks for the windows 8 tip. It's still not perfect but at least I can mess around now. I figured as much because the monitor is in an active 3D display mode and were are tricking it to get the strobe. I'm also aware of the Benq 27XL2720Z but since I couldn't find any tangible information on it's release, I took a shot at the T version.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> Thanks for the windows 8 tip. It's still not perfect but at least I can mess around now. I figured as much because the monitor is in an active 3D display mode and were are tricking it to get the strobe. I'm also aware of the Benq 27XL2720Z but since I couldn't find any tangible information on it's release, I took a shot at the T version.


The XL2720Z should be in stores by December. It's still very new and being shipped to stores at the moment.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Any word on the pricing? Not that i'm going to return this and wait. Just curious. Also, thanks again for the help.

+ rep

edit:

I uninstalled lightboost then I ran the application again. Now lightboost is always on and my 3D light doesn't go on. Meaning, no more red filter







. Granted, I don't have the option to turn it off but I rather not. I can't really tell the difference in games yet but it looks clearer on your test website. That is, going from 120hz non LB to 120hz LB.


----------



## Soulfire

So is it confirmed that G-SYNC will have a similar strobing option for the removal of motion blur?


----------



## senna89

PRAD review of Eizo FG2421 !!!


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> PRAD review of Eizo FG2421 !!!


I don't see it on the website.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soulfire*
> 
> So is it confirmed that G-SYNC will have a similar strobing option for the removal of motion blur?


Yes, but you won't be able to use G-Syncs "normal" features and a strobing backlight at the same time.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> I don't see it on the website.


Look's like it's pay to view. Anyone want to copy and paste?


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I've bought the Asus 31.5" IGZO 4K to try out versus the 3x Eizo setup. Should be an interesting comparison.


I think you will return the IGZO since your eyes are already use to the minimal motion blur of these faster panels. But man it has to be nice to witness. Has anyone tried to OC the IGZO, or is it even possible?


----------



## calci

Is there a solution to enable "display" scaling in nvidia driver with my XL2420T (windows 8)? I have only the "GPU" scaling option and even with "no scale" option the GPU do some scaling and there is some input/display lag.


----------



## MicroMouse

A couple of questions regarding the fg2421 and 3d-vision.

3d-vision works by using the "generic CRT", but produce too much crosstalk in some games and other games don't work at all. 3d movies look much better with less crosstalk. Is this a driver problem or is the fg2421 impossible to run 3d on ?

If the answer to my question is impossible because the pixel response is too slow for 3d, would the following be possible to do ? :

Interlace left and right image like this:

1. Line - left image
2. Line - black
3. Line - left image
4. Line - black
...up to 1080 lines 60 fps

1. Line - black
2. Line - right image
3. Line - black
4. Line - right image
...up to 1080 lines 60 fps

Total 120 fps

This would be similar to "black frame insertion" in Mame. "Black line insertion" would be a better name for this.

In theory this would eliminate crosstalk in 3d and reduce ghosting in 2d.

- - -

In general, will 3d-vision double the perceived resolution if we set the 3d separation to zero ?









- - -


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroMouse*
> 
> 3d-vision works by using the "generic CRT", but produce too much crosstalk in some games and other games don't work at all. 3d movies look much better with less crosstalk. Is this a driver problem or is the fg2421 impossible to run 3d on ?


The VA panel used in FG2421 doesn't have sufficient ability to do 3D well, however -- with a very minor firmware modification (eliminate the pre-strobe, and only do 120 strobes per second, and shorten the strobe length of the dominant strobe to flash towards the end), it probably could work a lot better.
Quote:


> If the answer to my question is impossible because the pixel response is too slow for 3d, would the following be possible to do ?


Theoretically, the black line insertion is a useful idea as transition back to black is fairly speedy. However, the more major problem is the pre-strobe and the too-long strobe (2.3ms). It's going to still cause major crosstalk problems with the black-line-insertion idea.

For FG2421 to work well with 3D, the pre-strobe needs to be disabled, and the dominant strobe shortenable to about 1 to 1.5ms, towards the end of the current strobe. Even so, VA pixel transitions. See this on FG2421: www.testufo.com/blurtrail (use full screen mode). Especially look at the bottom edge. The thin line is the pre-strobe and the thick line is the dominant strobe. And the doubled-up thick line is the pixel transitions from previous refresh. For 3D to work well, you should be seeing only one moving vertical line. This isn't noticeable in 2D, but I suspect most (not all) ghosting effects can be mostly fixed by a firmware update to FG2421. Even so, 3D may not be usable enough on the VA panel, however, when this is solved, combined with the black line insertion method (perhaps using a 3rd party utility similar to ToastyX deliner, but running temporally), that probably could make FG2421 do 3D reasonably well. But first things first, the pre-strobe is causing part of your crosstalk problem. Another thing you might be able to do is to adjust the phase of the shutter glasses and have them open-close more quickly, to try and avoid having the pre-strobe be visible. open-close the 3D glasses shutter only during the 2.3ms dominant strobe, rather than the ~0.5ms pre-strobe.

I must stress the FG2421 wasn't designed with 3D in mind (although, technically, it can easily work better than it currently does, with minor tweaks -- but not nearly as crosstalk-free as TN 3D)

Keep tuned for the review. I'm actually now waiting for some additional test equipment, so the review may be delayed a few days more. I don't want to post a "me too" review; as I am testing certain stuff beyond other reviews.

I really like it a lot. Prefer it to my LightBoost. But obviously, this strobe backlight is optimized for 2D operation rather than 3D operation.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Yes, but you won't be able to use G-Syncs "normal" features and a strobing backlight at the same time.
> Look's like it's pay to view. Anyone want to copy and paste?


awww, & here I was expecting strobe + variable frame rate.


----------



## Jack Mac

Alright, I have a very annoying problem with Firefox. I love using Firefox (mainly for better smooth scrolling over Chrome) but I randomly have issues with Firefox sometimes displaying 120FPS and sometimes displaying 60 FPS. It's really annoying and I was wondering if anyone had a fix for this issue. Some days it'll do 120 FPS just fine, other days it will refuse and will stay stuck at 60FPS.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> Alright, I have a very annoying problem with Firefox. I love using Firefox (mainly for better smooth scrolling over Chrome)


The newer Chrome beta has really smooth scrolling, for middle button autoscroll. (click middle mouse, and then move mouse slightly up/down). It's now as good as Internet Explorer's arrow scroll now. I've sent a suggestion to the Chrome team to improve the arrow scroll and mousewheel scroll. But at least Chrome now has great 120Hz autoscroll when used in that mode.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> but I randomly have issues with Firefox sometimes displaying 120FPS and sometimes displaying 60 FPS. It's really annoying and I was wondering if anyone had a fix for this issue. Some days it'll do 120 FPS just fine, other days it will refuse and will stay stuck at 60FPS.


Usually, that's an Aero or multimonitor issue.
1. Keep Aero enabled at all times, for FireFox 120fps
2. Keep FireFox window confined to your 120Hz monitor, do not lat it overlap the 60Hz monitor.
3. Disable your 60Hz secondary monitors (if any).


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Usually, that's an Aero or multimonitor issue.
> 1. Keep Aero enabled at all times, for FireFox 120fps
> 2. Keep FireFox window confined to your 120Hz monitor, do not lat it overlap the 60Hz monitor.
> 3. Disable your 60Hz secondary monitors (if any).


So I need aero? That sucks. And not being able to use Firefox on my second monitor kinda defeats the purpose of having it, it's great for multitasking.
Edit: Enabling Aero fixed this issue, thanks. I'd rather live with Aero than use chrome. +rep.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

As much as I love my BenQ xl2720t (even that its 1080p), I can't get over the ghosting. When i'm playing 3d rendered games like Battlefield or Counter strike, it's not noticeable. Yet if I play a 2d game like Guacamelee, the background get's blurry. It goes all checkerboard and blurry. If im moving around an environment in 3d, you can't tell. But scrolling through forums like these or playing those 2D games, it's just annoying. I wouldn't even mind it tbh since I don't play many 2D games but I paid 500$ for this monitor. The fact that its 120hz should negate this issue.

_Another user's photo_


Do you think the Z version will get rid of these issues? I got a 30 day warranty which I'll probably make use of. It's a shame, some games look incredible like BF4. How is the Asus version of the 27" 120hz? Anyone here have that? Or better yet, is there a way to calibrate the monitor to get rid of the ghosting?

Thanks.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

I kinda of jumped the gun with my last comment there. I plugged in my Samsung 2233RZ and it's actually about the same. If not worse. I guess I just never noticed it since its a 22" monitor. Now that I got the 27" (90dpi to 81dpi), I guess it just made me aware of it.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

I dont even see a link in his post. He hasn't edited it either so...?


----------



## Arc0s

He also posted a link on the eizo thread.


----------



## ZeGermanB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> I dont even see a link in his post. He hasn't edited it either so...?


But I guess you can see the broken image symbol, right?

That's what your browser is loading when you re-fresh this page. A image that isn't a image, but a virus.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

No, there is nothing. The only link I see is in your post. No broken image, no link, no url, no text. Nothing. Just his comment. Maybe ADBlock at work? Idk


----------



## TFL Replica

It was a spammer with embedded links hidden in its post. In the future, please just report them and move on. Do not quote them.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> Do you think the Z version will get rid of these issues? I got a 30 day warranty which I'll probably make use of. It's a shame, some games look incredible like BF4. How is the Asus version of the 27" 120hz? Anyone here have that? Or better yet, is there a way to calibrate the monitor to get rid of the ghosting?


The checkerboard you are seeing is an LCD inversion artifact ( www.testufo.com/inversion ) which affects nearly all 120Hz monitors, including the older 2233RZ.

The ghosting you see is normal for a lot of monitors. The ones with less ghosting is ASUS VG248QE, BENQ XL2411T, and BENQ XL2420TE. Those models are the ones that clean up refreshes better. If you want something with the minimum possible ghosting, trade for one of those. If colors, with good motion clarity during strobing, are more important than ghosting, the Eizo FG2421 is a favourite contender.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

It's ok. I think im gonna stick with the Xl2720T. I don't want to go down to 24"s. I'll keep my eyes open if any deals come up for a 2560x1440p monitor but most of them are too expensive in Canada. I don't want to get one of those Korean ones either. They look too cheap and seem to be a gamble too.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> It's ok. I think im gonna stick with the Xl2720T. I don't want to go down to 24"s. I'll keep my eyes open if any deals come up for a 2560x1440p monitor but most of them are too expensive in Canada. I don't want to get one of those Korean ones either. They look too cheap and seem to be a gamble too.


Bear in mind that all 1440p 60Hz displays have more than 12x more motion blur than a LightBoost-optimized 120Hz display (Photos: 60Hz vs 120Hz vs LightBoost as well as Photos: LightBoost 10% vs 50% vs 100%). Where you see only 1 pixel of motion blurring, you'll see >10 pixels of motion blurring. (And where you saw 3 pixels of motion blurring, you'll see >30 pixels of motion blurring).


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Lol, I forgot why I like 120hz so much. I guess the technology isn't there yet. Still, im more then happy that I got a big 27" 120hz display. That's all I was really looking for. The lightboost is just icing on the cake.


----------



## Z Overlord

Will G Sync be worth it over not using V Sync? Lots of fps players have traditionally played online fps games like Quake, CS, TF2, CoD, BF, etc with V sync off for better mouse input. This often meant that in order for these gamers to get rid of screen tearing they had to have their framecap in the game much higher, like 120+fps (For example in TF2 I have the framerate capped at 132 and I see no screen tearing on my 60Hz monitor).

Now I'd say TF2 is pretty smooth, but obviously there will be frame timing misses or whatever, just like John Carmack talked about in that Linux interview at the G Sync demonstrations. Will there be a benefit to not using G Sync?


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> I think you will return the IGZO since your eyes are already use to the minimal motion blur of these faster panels. But man it has to be nice to witness. Has anyone tried to OC the IGZO, or is it even possible?


The 4K monitor is a bust. Firstly, the blacks, IPS glow and back light bleed are horrendous. Especially after using the Eizo's.

One MAJOR problem with 4K is DP 1.2. That connection at max bandwidth is so freaking weak/flaky, your PC literally needs to be on your lap due to the DP cable. I have a 25 foot *24 gauge* half inch thick $200 DP 1.2 cable and it won't pass the signal properly. I get this:



I plug in the dinky 5 foot included cable and it works at 4K 60 Hz. For those that don't like to be sitting on your computer, this is a no-go. I know DP 1.2 has incredibly bad signal strength and no distance, but I didn't know it was _this bad._

Hopefully HDMI 2.0 is much better at distance. I hate having the computer super close.


----------



## Hefner

Could anyone give me a hand? I originally wanted to post this here but I felt like it was off topic.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1443820/help-120hz-monitor-on-clevo-150hm

thanks


----------



## Slaughtahouse

@Callsignveg, I know you said half inch cable but 24 gauge is like .5mm diameter speaker wire.


----------



## CallsignVega

Doing some comparison of the Asus 4K monitor versus the Eizo Surround setup. I could not directly put the setups next to each other due to the incredibly short cable distance allowed under 4k 60 Hz.

First thing I noticed as I turned on the power switch is just terrible black levels, IPS glow and the bezel pinching the corners of the display causing back light bleed. The picture below is a bit exaggerated like normal, but it is still very apparent in real viewing:



A close up of the worst corner, bottom left:










White's were all blotchy/cloudy:










Games look great with the resolution and clarity, but here you can see quite bit of motion blur, especially with the people in the stands.










The deadly AFK smooth camera spin of Skyrim. Extremely difficult test for motion blur. Unfortunately the 4K Asus does about the worst I've ever seen in this test:










In real world viewing, when you are panning the camera around in something like Skyrim or an FPS, you really can't see anything until you stop the movement due to the smearing. Obviously I could not recommend the monitor for gaming.

I will say though, on bright static images, the 4K display is quite gorgeous! 4K resolution is the future, it's just currently in a very immature state.

The 3x Eizo setup handily serves the 4K it's butt on a platter for gaming. Like all IPS displays, they will be destroyed by the black's and contrast ratios of VA panels like the Eizo. The Eizo FG2421 isn't only a VA panel, it is an extremely good VA panel that puts out some of the best black and contrast ratios in the business.

Switching between the Eizo, the 4K IPs, the random TN panels around here is just a night and day difference. Once you get used to super blacks and contrast ratios and no glowing screens, it's hard to go back! There is a down-side with the black crush/gamma shift, but it's a small price to pay. Plus the Eizo's strobing backlight motion clarity, it's just no contest.

Add onto the fact 120 Hz 4K monitors could be a half a decade or more away, I could see myself hanging onto this 3x Eizo setup for quite a long time. It does everything really well. I may even try and get 5x1 working with AMD.


----------



## writer21

4k lightboost! Bring it!!!!


----------



## PCM2

Imagine the GPU power required for that... But what a display it would be.


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> It's ok. I think im gonna stick with the Xl2720T. I don't want to go down to 24"s. I'll keep my eyes open if any deals come up for a 2560x1440p monitor but most of them are too expensive in Canada. I don't want to get one of those Korean ones either. They look too cheap and seem to be a gamble too.


I'm probably going to hold out for gsync monitor when it's available myself. Hoping there will be a gysnc + lightboost feature in the near future. I think that would be the ultimate image clarity and quality.

Without lightboost you can barely see the textures if you're twitching a lot. This is where lightboost is so damn good. Makes BF4 looks stunning even at 1080p.


----------



## crun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> Imagine the GPU power required for that... But what a display it would be.


yeah, i can't imagine when a single GPU will be able to handle new games at 4k @ 120hz in at least med-high details.
(weak) next-gens are almost here, so we are probably about to see a bump in spec requirements...

i guess at the end of PS4/XBONE generation (7 years from now?) [email protected] might be possible on a high-end single GPU rig?


----------



## latexyankee

Still no lightboost available for surround users with the new 331.82 drivers.

I don't think there will be a way to have lightbosst in surround again. It seems nvidia only wants single display users to have options for this tech.

It's time to start warning people that these 120hz monitors are a terrible choice for surround gaming (if you want to use lightboost, which you do because the colors are horrible) you would be better off with a single 27' 120hz or a 30 at 1600p.

I cannot overstate the remorse I have felt over the past 2 months of not being able to use the single functionality I purchased these displays for. It was the worst decision I have ever made and truly regret not going with a single large display. Just moving to Nvidia in itself was truly a mistake, the drivers are the worst I've seen, surround tech is shotty as can be, they cant even run a fourth monitor for almost 4 months now, longer than lightboost was disabled.

Also surround may never be available with gsync either, for current card users. I've read several times it would only be compatible with displayport and for surround you must use 1 DVI.

So thats 3 120hz displays and 2 titans down the drain. I liked my 27' 1440p and xfire 7950's much better.....and for $2000 less.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *latexyankee*
> 
> So thats 3 120hz displays and 2 titans down the drain. I liked my 27' 1440p and xfire 7950's much better.....and for $2000 less.


This saddens me to hear that NVIDIA isn't helping some people like you. I will over the next week, attempt to pull some information from the NVIDIA contacts. But don't wait for me.

Here's a contingency plan of minimum financial loss (may lose money than reselling everything):

1. Three EIZO FG2421's (surround landscape), already here today.
2. Three BENQ XL2720Z (surround portrait/landscape), arrives December.

These new monitors have *strobe modes via monitor menus, independently of the computer* -- so works with *all* graphics cards, including your choice of surround modes. No "LightBoost" vendor lock-in.

Resell the LightBoost monitors you have as your monitors still have fairly good resale value when sold via these forums -- CallSignVega can help you find customers too (especially if they want them dematted). Purchase new monitors with guaranteed strobing (XL2720Z, FG2421) completely independent of graphics drivers, and whatever graphics cards you get.


----------



## CallsignVega

I agree, NVIDIA is slacking when it comes to drivers. You could always sell those Lightboost monitors and get the Eizo's. They are better for surround anyway and you don't have to worry about drivers or locked to one particular brand GPU.

As for G-Sync and three monitors, since current cards only have 1 DP, you would need tri-SLI. As for "one large screen", anything over 1080P and you are in the realm of massive motion blur.


----------



## CYBER-SNIPA

@CallsignVega - So the IGZO is a NOGO??? LOL

Can I ask which NV drivers your using with those EIZO's please???

@mdrejhon - Has your test XL2720Z model arrived from Benq yet? As I'm extremely interested in the comparison between the Benq and the Eizo???


----------



## skupples

FFFFFFFFF4

Man that motion blur. 4K is just so out of reach in so many ways right now. Think i'll give it ~5 years before I start looking @ Gaming with it.


----------



## jerrolds

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *latexyankee*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Still no lightboost available for surround users with the new 331.82 drivers.
> 
> I don't think there will be a way to have lightbosst in surround again. It seems nvidia only wants single display users to have options for this tech.
> 
> It's time to start warning people that these 120hz monitors are a terrible choice for surround gaming (if you want to use lightboost, which you do because the colors are horrible) you would be better off with a single 27' 120hz or a 30 at 1600p.
> 
> I cannot overstate the remorse I have felt over the past 2 months of not being able to use the single functionality I purchased these displays for. It was the worst decision I have ever made and truly regret not going with a single large display. Just moving to Nvidia in itself was truly a mistake, the drivers are the worst I've seen, surround tech is shotty as can be, they cant even run a fourth monitor for almost 4 months now, longer than lightboost was disabled.
> 
> Also surround may never be available with gsync either, for current card users. I've read several times it would only be compatible with displayport and for surround you must use 1 DVI.
> 
> So thats 3 120hz displays and 2 titans down the drain. I liked my 27' 1440p and xfire 7950's much better.....and for $2000 less.


Yup i had bought a Benq XL2420T a couple months ago - and side by side with my QNIX @ 120hz...there was no comparison. Yes Lightboost motion clarity was amazing, and better than QNIX - but everything else sucked colors, brightness, viewing angles, resolution, pixel density, size...

Returned the BenQ and dont miss it at all.

GSync looks very promising, id love for this (and lightboost) to work with IPS. TN monitors just dont work anymore for me.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CYBER-SNIPA*
> 
> @CallsignVega - So the IGZO is a NOGO??? LOL
> 
> Can I ask which NV drivers your using with those EIZO's please???
> 
> @mdrejhon - Has your test XL2720Z model arrived from Benq yet? As I'm extremely interested in the comparison between the Benq and the Eizo???


Hah, well the IGZO resolution is pretty epic. No denying that. It's just that the resolution is backed by archaic pixel speed, refresh rates, blacks, contrast, yadda yadda... Doesn't make it worth it.

I am using the latest drivers that just came out with my setup.

I did notice that the pixels were so small, that in order to get the "full effect immersion" of 4K I had to sit pretty darn close to the screen. I think I would be more satisfied with a 39" 4K panel pushed from the close edge of my desk to the middle of the desk. Would be perfect. Although I do not see myself going 4K for many years as right now I have the image quality, motion quality and 3/4 the resolution. Really the only downside to my setup is bezels. Working on another "project" to minimize the apparent, not physical gap between the monitors.


----------



## jerrolds

Adding magnifying glass thing to your setup?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CYBER-SNIPA*
> 
> @mdrejhon - Has your test XL2720Z model arrived from Benq yet? As I'm extremely interested in the comparison between the Benq and the Eizo???


Not yet.
Also, as a reminder -- there is some equipment delay so my FG2421 review will probably edge to be very close to the very end of this month.


----------



## latexyankee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> This saddens me to hear that NVIDIA isn't helping some people like you. I will over the next week, attempt to pull some information from the NVIDIA contacts. But don't wait for me.
> 
> Here's a contingency plan of minimum financial loss (may lose money than reselling everything):
> 
> 1. Three EIZO FG2421's (surround landscape), already here today.
> 2. Three BENQ XL2720Z (surround portrait/landscape), arrives December.
> 
> These new monitors have *strobe modes via monitor menus, independently of the computer* -- so works with *all* graphics cards, including your choice of surround modes. No "LightBoost" vendor lock-in.
> 
> Resell the LightBoost monitors you have as your monitors still have fairly good resale value when sold via these forums -- CallSignVega can help you find customers too (especially if they want them dematted). Purchase new monitors with guaranteed strobing (XL2720Z, FG2421) completely independent of graphics drivers, and whatever graphics cards you get.


I don't beleve selling the monitors would be in any way profitable. Obviosly I'll never get close to orignal resale value. I debezelled and dematted them the first day I got them. So.. no warranty and people tend to be rather picky when buying used items ESPECIALLY displays. I do not have all the resources available that vega does(although thank you kind sir for the help over pm) and a few had the "super glue" film which took some trial and error to remove. Yea theres a small smudge here a TINY scratch there, nothing that bothers me and is invisible when the units are powered on.

However with these going for close to $200 open box and black friday, I'll be looking at close to $100 per display. Can not afford to dump $1500 into new monitors.

Not to sound like a baby, but I just want it to work. I had no idea Nvidia would disable a proprietary feature. Funny I could be enjoying lightboost for 1K less with 290x.

Karma is a ....


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *latexyankee*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I don't beleve selling the monitors would be in any way profitable. Obviosly I'll never get close to orignal resale value. I debezelled and dematted them the first day I got them. So.. no warranty and people tend to be rather picky when buying used items ESPECIALLY displays. I do not have all the resources available that vega does(although thank you kind sir for the help over pm) and a few had the "super glue" film which took some trial and error to remove. Yea theres a small smudge here a TINY scratch there, nothing that bothers me and is invisible when the units are powered on.
> 
> However with these going for close to $200 open box and black friday, I'll be looking at close to $100 per display. Can not afford to dump $1500 into new monitors.
> 
> 
> 
> Not to sound like a baby, but I just want it to work. I had no idea Nvidia would disable a proprietary feature. Funny I could be enjoying lightboost for 1K less with 290x.
> 
> Karma is a ....


Accept that your 290x would likely be plagued with black screens, red screens, rapid fluctuation in clocks, low gpu usage, over heating, ocp trigger... I digress.

It is rather strange that it seems Nvidia intentionally broke 2d strobe.


----------



## jerrolds

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Accept that your 290x would likely be plagued with black screens, red screens, rapid fluctuation in clocks, low gpu usage, over heating, ocp trigger... I digress.
> 
> It is rather strange that it seems Nvidia intentionally broke 2d strobe.


Blackscreen affects a small percentage (not including me) and is recognized with a driver fix expected the end of the week.

Clock fluctations happen in "Quiet" mode and less in "Uber" and even less with an aggressive fan curve. Mine is stable 1180mhz with a bios flash and a $50 aftermarket cooler, core fluctuations are non-existent for me, and a lot of other people. Core is less than 65C at load as well.

Its a great card, but can be made so much better with a bit of effort. I cant believe AMD chose to ship their flagship with such garbage coolers.


----------



## skupples

I'm well aware of the issues, iv'e been following the owners club since day one. It's one of the least user friendly gpu releases in years. I can't even imagine what the non tech savvy people are going through.


----------



## littledonny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *latexyankee*
> 
> Still no lightboost available for surround users with the new 331.82 drivers.
> 
> I don't think there will be a way to have lightbosst in surround again. It seems nvidia only wants single display users to have options for this tech.
> 
> It's time to start warning people that these 120hz monitors are a terrible choice for surround gaming (if you want to use lightboost, which you do because the colors are horrible) you would be better off with a single 27' 120hz or a 30 at 1600p.
> 
> I cannot overstate the remorse I have felt over the past 2 months of not being able to use the single functionality I purchased these displays for. It was the worst decision I have ever made and truly regret not going with a single large display. Just moving to Nvidia in itself was truly a mistake, the drivers are the worst I've seen, surround tech is shotty as can be, they cant even run a fourth monitor for almost 4 months now, longer than lightboost was disabled.
> 
> Also surround may never be available with gsync either, for current card users. I've read several times it would only be compatible with displayport and for surround you must use 1 DVI.
> 
> So thats 3 120hz displays and 2 titans down the drain. I liked my 27' 1440p and xfire 7950's much better.....and for $2000 less.


You do realize your setup still has resale value, right?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *latexyankee*
> 
> However with these going for close to $200 open box and black friday, I'll be looking at close to $100 per display. Can not afford to dump $1500 into new monitors.


I heard Vega has sold dematted displays at pretty good prices, so you can easily get way more than that, because you don't have to pay for Vega dematting.


----------



## latexyankee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> I heard Vega has sold dematted displays at pretty good prices, so you can easily get way more than that, because you don't have to pay for Vega dematting.


That's true mdrejhon, he does charge a premium and rightfully so, his work is literally top notch.

Maybe I'm just burnt out. Wifey, kids and work. It took me quite awhile to put everything together and a boatload of dough. I don't have time like I used to in my 20's between family work and fitness, think I'm tired of upgrading for awhile.

I really expected this to be my last setup for at LEAST 3 years. I'm only planning on higher res when 120hz is natively supported. I need to update my rig in SIG

My new light boost setup ( thanks Vega)

4930k
Asus x79 deluxe
16gb vengeance 2133
Titan sli
2x plextor sad

That's without all the other $500 bells and whistles. Just tired right now of swapping parts/setups. Christmas is here and money I have is for the kids and fam, not for me.


----------



## axiumone

So, out of curiosity, what was the last driver that I could use on win 8/8.1 that supports surround lightboost? I just built a surround rig, only to discover that lightboost hasnt worked for the last few driver releases in surround.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *latexyankee*
> 
> That's true mdrejhon, he does charge a premium and rightfully so, his work is literally top notch.
> 
> Maybe I'm just burnt out. Wifey, kids and work. It took me quite awhile to put everything together and a boatload of dough. I don't have time like I used to in my 20's between family work and fitness, think I'm tired of upgrading for awhile.
> 
> I really expected this to be my last setup for at LEAST 3 years. I'm only planning on higher res when 120hz is natively supported. I need to update my rig in SIG
> 
> My new light boost setup ( thanks Vega)
> 
> 4930k
> Asus x79 deluxe
> 16gb vengeance 2133
> Titan sli
> 2x plextor sad
> 
> That's without all the other $500 bells and whistles. Just tired right now of swapping parts/setups. Christmas is here and money I have is for the kids and fam, not for me.


You know murphy's law latex, as soon as you part everything out NVIDIA will release their driver fix.


----------



## Soulfire

So there's essentially no point in waiting on G-SYNC monitors if I plan on using Lightboost/Strobe backlight/whatever, versus just getting the Eizo now? (since if I use Lightboost 2.0, I can't use G-SYNC?)

And am I correc t in assuming that it's likely that those G-SYNC monitors won't be VA/have similar color quality and contrast?

AKA I should just get the Eizo now because waiting won't be in any way beneficial?


----------



## Uraniumz

I just hopped in here after my last peek under the curtain two or so weeks ago to see if the surround lightboost had been fixed for the vg248qe...this is such a bummer. I bought 3 because of this feature and loved it for a month or so, to find out that a month later nvidia has decided to slap everyones hand by disabling it, and now they want me to buy to buy a chip, or 3 chips to enable what free software was doing. And I understand that g-sync will not work for surround anyways....so basically no surround lightboost on this monitor, because nvidia says so????

They might as well turn around and charge money to use shadowplay when the official release is out, after everyone has bought their gpu's thinking it would be free. Im happy to buy 2 780 Ti's with my hard earned money, because I know I will get what I am paying for, but to pull this move after the fact is a bunch of balogney.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soulfire*
> 
> So there's essentially no point in waiting on G-SYNC monitors if I plan on using Lightboost/Strobe backlight/whatever, versus just getting the Eizo now? (since if I use Lightboost 2.0, I can't use G-SYNC?)
> 
> And am I correc t in assuming that it's likely that those G-SYNC monitors won't be VA/have similar color quality and contrast?
> 
> AKA I should just get the Eizo now because waiting won't be in any way beneficial?


this is what I wanna know


----------



## latexyankee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> You know murphy's law latex, as soon as you part everything out NVIDIA will release their driver fix.


I couldn't freakin agree more


----------



## latexyankee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Uraniumz*
> 
> I just hopped in here after my last peek under the curtain two or so weeks ago to see if the surround lightboost had been fixed for the vg248qe...this is such a bummer. I bought 3 because of this feature and loved it for a month or so, to find out that a month later nvidia has decided to slap everyones hand by disabling it, and now they want me to buy to buy a chip, or 3 chips to enable what free software was doing. And I understand that g-sync will not work for surround anyways....so basically no surround lightboost on this monitor, because nvidia says so????
> 
> They might as well turn around and charge money to use shadowplay when the official release is out, after everyone has bought their gpu's thinking it would be free. Im happy to buy 2 780 Ti's with my hard earned money, because I know I will get what I am paying for, but to pull this move after the fact is a bunch of balogney.


Brother...oh brother

I feel you 100% in my heart and wallet. Seems we got the these displays around the exact time. Not to be prude but I'm glad someone else feels my pain. Worked great for a few weeks then bam....it's been 2 months now. I still don't understand why the accessory monitor is still not fixed in surround with win 8 but.... that's a different story. I'm sure there are games ACBF, BF4 they are worried about, however if it worked fine before how hard is it to roll back? This seems somewhat intentional.

I'm not sure what gpu's you are running but I can assume with a surround 120hz setup they are no slouch. Mdrejhon is working his best to get info ( thanks for the PM on the other forum) but man it doesn't look good. Keep complaining and keep the fight, there are MANY others who are either too lazy or to "casual" to post with the same setup and same issues. All we can do at this point is let our voices be heard. I've been trashing NV on many other sites and I feel my argument is justified....most definitely when you take into account that AMD has the upper hand on NV lightboost technology? WTH?

Best of luck and sorry for your wallet!


----------



## CYBER-SNIPA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soulfire*
> 
> So there's essentially no point in waiting on G-SYNC monitors if I plan on using Lightboost/Strobe backlight/whatever, versus just getting the Eizo now? (since if I use Lightboost 2.0, I can't use G-SYNC?)
> 
> And am I correc t in assuming that it's likely that those G-SYNC monitors won't be VA/have similar color quality and contrast?
> 
> AKA I should just get the Eizo now because waiting won't be in any way beneficial?


I think your last sentence sums it all up nicely and answers the question several of us want to know. But to answer it anyway I think mdrejon's and Vega's statement's a few posts back, both speak volumes about how good the EIZO monitor is and the freedom it also provides;

*mdrejon said "1. Three EIZO FG2421's (surround landscape), already here today. 2. Three BENQ XL2720Z (surround portrait/landscape), arrives December.

These new monitors have strobe modes via monitor menus, independently of the computer -- so works with all graphics cards, including your choice of surround modes. No "LightBoost" vendor lock-in."*

And if you couple that to Vega's review of the EIZO Vs IGZO 4K, then these two statements provide the defining verdict on monitors for the next few years;

*Vega said "The 3x Eizo setup handily serves the 4K it's butt on a platter for gaming. Like all IPS displays, they will be destroyed by the black's and contrast ratios of VA panels like the Eizo. The Eizo FG2421 isn't only a VA panel, it is an extremely good VA panel that puts out some of the best black and contrast ratios in the business.

Switching between the Eizo, the 4K IPs, the random TN panels around here is just a night and day difference. Once you get used to super blacks and contrast ratios and no glowing screens, it's hard to go back! There is a down-side with the black crush/gamma shift, but it's a small price to pay. Plus the Eizo's strobing backlight motion clarity, it's just no contest.

Add onto the fact 120 Hz 4K monitors could be a half a decade or more away, I could see myself hanging onto this 3x Eizo setup for quite a long time. It does everything really well. I may even try and get 5x1 working with AMD."*

That's two extremely good insight's from two very knowledgeable technowizard's right there. For me future-proofing is a factor I add in to all my tech purchases. It's not always possible to achieve that, as tech moves forwards very quickly. However you can limit it's affects with shrewd purchases and forward thinking. These EIZO's seem to be head-and-shoulder's above any G-Sync monitor yet to be released? All that's holding me back from ordering my 3 EIZO's is the damn video card makers. As soon as a 780Ti Classy or Lightning is released then I'm good to go!!!


----------



## Uraniumz

Latexyankee, I hear you man..Its a shame. I have spoke up in a few other forums as well. It is simply a squeeze of the customer it seems, to pay for the g-sync chip. There is no point for me to get the chip though if it doesn't support surround, so we are SOL. I run 2x 780 Ti's in SLI, with some settings turned down to get that 120ish frames. If they don't offer support for those who run surround setups and just want lightboost for now, they are arbitrarily requiring to customer to pay for 3 of these chips to enable something that was already working for free. The last I heard these chips were going to cost along the lines of $175ish each. So $525 to re enable lightboost on the monitors I bought for a feature that was previously free, although not officially sanctioned. No thanks Nvidia.....

Another analogy for fun... They should also start locking bios's on cards so they can't be modded to be better at the customer's risk, or throw a K on the end and charge a premium to be able to overclock cards. I guarantee you it was a corporate decision from a few guys looking at a projected sales graph thinking how they could squeeze every last drop out of the customer with G-sync. I was all for it when I first read about it, but permanently crippling what was the top dog TN panel (for a few months) for surround users just isn't right. I could go on with how this frustrates me to no end, but I digress....please fix what you intentionally broke Nvidia.

How I wish I could switch to those EIZO's, but I already blew my money lol.


----------



## Soulfire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CYBER-SNIPA*
> 
> I think your last sentence sums it all up nicely and answers the question several of us want to know. But to answer it anyway I think mdrejon's and Vega's statement's a few posts back, both speak volumes about how good the EIZO monitor is and the freedom it also provides;
> 
> *mdrejon said "1. Three EIZO FG2421's (surround landscape), already here today. 2. Three BENQ XL2720Z (surround portrait/landscape), arrives December.
> 
> These new monitors have strobe modes via monitor menus, independently of the computer -- so works with all graphics cards, including your choice of surround modes. No "LightBoost" vendor lock-in."*
> 
> And if you couple that to Vega's review of the EIZO Vs IGZO 4K, then these two statements provide the defining verdict on monitors for the next few years;
> 
> *Vega said "The 3x Eizo setup handily serves the 4K it's butt on a platter for gaming. Like all IPS displays, they will be destroyed by the black's and contrast ratios of VA panels like the Eizo. The Eizo FG2421 isn't only a VA panel, it is an extremely good VA panel that puts out some of the best black and contrast ratios in the business.
> 
> Switching between the Eizo, the 4K IPs, the random TN panels around here is just a night and day difference. Once you get used to super blacks and contrast ratios and no glowing screens, it's hard to go back! There is a down-side with the black crush/gamma shift, but it's a small price to pay. Plus the Eizo's strobing backlight motion clarity, it's just no contest.
> 
> Add onto the fact 120 Hz 4K monitors could be a half a decade or more away, I could see myself hanging onto this 3x Eizo setup for quite a long time. It does everything really well. I may even try and get 5x1 working with AMD."*
> 
> That's two extremely good insight's from two very knowledgeable technowizard's right there. For me future-proofing is a factor I add in to all my tech purchases. It's not always possible to achieve that, as tech moves forwards very quickly. However you can limit it's affects with shrewd purchases and forward thinking. These EIZO's seem to be head-and-shoulder's above any G-Sync monitor yet to be released? All that's holding me back from ordering my 3 EIZO's is the damn video card makers. As soon as a 780Ti Classy or Lightning is released then I'm good to go!!!


I agree, except the only issue is we don't know the quality of the G-SYNC monitors. I'm not likely to switch from nVidia in the future so I'm not too concerned there.


----------



## senna89

excuse me but for the case .......... do you know if exist 2 rev of Eizo FG2421 ? one with VESA support and one not ?


----------



## CallsignVega

You can mount the Eizo's with VESA, it would just use two of the four screws. As long as you don't put a lot of pressure on the mount and do tons of adjustments all the time it should be fine. The monitor isn't that heavy.


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soulfire*
> 
> So there's essentially no point in waiting on G-SYNC monitors if I plan on using Lightboost/Strobe backlight/whatever, versus just getting the Eizo now? (since if I use Lightboost 2.0, I can't use G-SYNC?)
> 
> And am I correc t in assuming that it's likely that those G-SYNC monitors won't be VA/have similar color quality and contrast?
> 
> AKA I should just get the Eizo now because waiting won't be in any way beneficial?


I agree. And if you take into consideration that he VG248QE with G-sync will be sold for 399USD, which is too close to the eizo's price. I think I'm going to pull the trigger on the EIZO FG2421 instead of my planned total system refresh.

Vega said that the eizo's lightboost is equivalent to 60% brightness, maybe g-sync lightboost @144hz will be even better? That being said, the eizo's strobing isn't gpu architecture restricted, the contrast is better than IPS panel's and the viewing angles are better than TN panels. +physical buttons, semi-gloss coating and no crappy speakers.

I suppose nobody, even console gamers, buying a monitor that expensive is going to use the cheap internal DAC, so in that regard, they could have cut the price a little bit more and removed all the audio hardware.


----------



## Hefner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> You can mount the Eizo's with VESA, it would just use two of the four screws. As long as you don't put a lot of pressure on the mount and do tons of adjustments all the time it should be fine. The monitor isn't that heavy.


You can also add some duct tape. No one is going to mind duct tape on the backside since you cant see if anyways.


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Just downloaded the latest drivers and decided to check here before I bothered installing them to see if I could use my surround lightboost again.. I'm in the same boat as you guys. Ive had my monitors longer without lightboost than with and lightboost is the whole reason I bought the VG278H's. I really am a bit pissed off to be honest right now.. Ive posted on the nvidia forums about this a few times and not a single response. I think that's absurd. I'm waiting two more releases. If it not fixed these monitors are gone. . ..


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> Just downloaded the latest drivers and decided to check here before I bothered installing them to see if I could use my surround lightboost again.. I'm in the same boat as you guys. Ive had my monitors longer without lightboost than with and lightboost is the whole reason I bought the VG278H's. I really am a bit pissed off to be honest right now.. Ive posted on the nvidia forums about this a few times and not a single response. I think that's absurd. I'm waiting two more releases. If it not fixed these monitors are gone. . ..


''

Why can't you just use older drivers, until the fix comes?


----------



## CYBER-SNIPA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> On another note:
> 
> Most epic display setup I have ever built. The image quality and incredible black/contrast ratios are only magnified at this size. Took a few days to get everything just right. Now that such a setup no longer has any large pitfalls, I can see me having this setup for many years. Well, unless they come out with a 2560x1440 version.


Vega - are the monitor frames different sizes? As they appear not to line up horizontally? The actual display looks flush, but the bezel's look like their at different heights? Not a criticism so please forgive my curious OCD mind!!! LOL The screens colours look amazing though and I bet they caress your eyeballs with visual greatness?

Also which stand are you using please???

Thanks.


----------



## axiumone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARIKOmagic*
> 
> ''
> 
> Why can't you just use older drivers, until the fix comes?


So that's my question. What is the last driver for win 8 that supports surround lightboost? Will going back to win 7 allow the use of surround lightboost with the latest drivers?


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> Alright, I have a very annoying problem with Firefox. I love using Firefox (mainly for better smooth scrolling over Chrome) but I randomly have issues with Firefox sometimes displaying 120FPS and sometimes displaying 60 FPS. It's really annoying and I was wondering if anyone had a fix for this issue. Some days it'll do 120 FPS just fine, other days it will refuse and will stay stuck at 60FPS.


How do you know, & why is that annoying..?


----------



## jerrolds

I believe Overlord Computer is in the running to get an Nvidia grant or something, so they might be licensed to use the GSync tech with their 120hz IPS 1440p panels. Which would be pretty sweet. I had a Samsung VA panel in the past, and other than the black levels everything else seemed worse than IPS/PLS. Might be a lower quality VA panel though.

I am super curious about the EZIO panels, but i dont know if i can go back down to 1080p


----------



## jerrolds

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CYBER-SNIPA*
> 
> Vega - are the monitor frames different sizes? As they appear not to line up horizontally? The actual display looks flush, but the bezel's look like their at different heights? Not a criticism so please forgive my curious OCD mind!!! LOL The screens colours look amazing though and I bet they caress your eyeballs with visual greatness?
> 
> Also which stand are you using please???
> 
> Thanks.


Looks like the middle panel is in front of the left/right ones so the bezels dont double up

3x$700 - damn i wish i had that kind of budget haha. But 2 780tis or 290Xs should be able to power that pretty well


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> How do you know, & why is that annoying..?


I know because 60Hz is a blurry mess while 120Hz is smooth. It's annoying because 60Hz makes reading scrolling text difficult but the problem is fixed by enabling Aero.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

I know I posted it earlier but for any other 2720T owners, I manged to get lightboost to work WHILE having the ability to control my visual settings. Before, when you turned on the strobing, the 3D light came on and it had a bad red tinge with all the settings locked out.

Proof (3d light isn't on):


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







I only mention this because I was watching CallSignVega's video and he mentions that

"All monitor controls are locked out in Lightboost mode besides brightness and contrast. What you see above is what you get!"






Anyways, I wanted to ask people who have seen the 2420TE are the colours that much better then before? I watched Linus' video (



) and he was freaking out how much better they were. I'm considering returning my monitor and getting the 2420TE if they are that much better. I also might return it and just wait out for the 2720Z. Maybe that panel will have better colours too? It's not that my T is necessarily bad, but I want to get the best I can for my money.


----------



## jerrolds

Get that Ezio FORIS FG2421... Its only about twice the price


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARIKOmagic*
> 
> ''
> 
> Why can't you just use older drivers, until the fix comes?


The last drivers to work was version 327.23 . That version isnt 100% compatible with the new 8.1 upgrade to windows 8.

For example, the task bar is still spread across all screens. (with the later version it fixed that issue and the task bar is on just the center screen)
Its maybe a 30% or more drop in fps than the newer drivers. They just dont like 8.1. So you either have lightboost on and crap play or off and smooth play..

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *axiumone*
> 
> So that's my question. What is the last driver for win 8 that supports surround lightboost? Will going back to win 7 allow the use of surround lightboost with the latest drivers?


Version 327.23


----------



## latexyankee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Uraniumz*
> 
> Latexyankee, I hear you man..Its a shame. I have spoke up in a few other forums as well. It is simply a squeeze of the customer it seems, to pay for the g-sync chip. There is no point for me to get the chip though if it doesn't support surround, so we are SOL. I run 2x 780 Ti's in SLI, with some settings turned down to get that 120ish frames. If they don't offer support for those who run surround setups and just want lightboost for now, they are arbitrarily requiring to customer to pay for 3 of these chips to enable something that was already working for free. The last I heard these chips were going to cost along the lines of $175ish each. So $525 to re enable lightboost on the monitors I bought for a feature that was previously free, although not officially sanctioned. No thanks Nvidia.....
> 
> Another analogy for fun... They should also start locking bios's on cards so they can't be modded to be better at the customer's risk, or throw a K on the end and charge a premium to be able to overclock cards. I guarantee you it was a corporate decision from a few guys looking at a projected sales graph thinking how they could squeeze every last drop out of the customer with G-sync. I was all for it when I first read about it, but permanently crippling what was the top dog TN panel (for a few months) for surround users just isn't right. I could go on with how this frustrates me to no end, but I digress....please fix what you intentionally broke Nvidia.
> 
> How I wish I could switch to those EIZO's, but I already blew my money lol.


Yea I spent $300 apiece on 3 of these back in early Sept.

The problem with the Gsync chip is now 3 fold.

Only compatible with Displayport. So what does this mean?

$500 for 3 chips
$1k for a 3rd titan ( or whatever the price may be)
$800 for a fully watercooled tri sli rig.

Forcing me to buy a 3rd card in order to even run gsync in surround is out of control. I wouldn't dare run tri 780/titan on air and I believe I have one of the biggest if not the biggest consumer case available (xigmatek Elysium).

So now you are asking me to spend ANOTHER $2300 FOR A FEATURE THAT WAS FREE. It just makes me grit my teeth typing this. Cheaper option would be to sell the cards and go AMD again. I feel I never should have left, they were always good products for me, but ya'know, sometimes you just want to change to make sure your not missing out. Well we are now.


----------



## CYBER-SNIPA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jerrolds*
> 
> Looks like the middle panel is in front of the left/right ones so the bezels dont double up


AAAHHHH Well spotted!!!


----------



## Jack Mac

So is anyone here using a 290/290X with lightboost, if so, how is it working out?


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CYBER-SNIPA*
> 
> Vega - are the monitor frames different sizes? As they appear not to line up horizontally? The actual display looks flush, but the bezel's look like their at different heights? Not a criticism so please forgive my curious OCD mind!!! LOL The screens colours look amazing though and I bet they caress your eyeballs with visual greatness?
> 
> Also which stand are you using please???
> 
> Thanks.


The panel gaps would be too large if you didn't overlap them. They are overlapped in a specific way, as the top's (landscape) of the internal bezels are slightly thinner than the bottom's, so top's always overlap bottoms. Uhh, sounds funny









Monitor stand:
http://www.wsgf.org/products/freedom-wsgf-edition-ultimate-desk-stand


----------



## Remmib

Wow there were some rustled jimmies a few pages back.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> The 4K monitor is a bust. Firstly, the blacks, IPS glow and back light bleed are horrendous. Especially after using the Eizo's.
> 
> One MAJOR problem with 4K is DP 1.2. That connection at max bandwidth is so freaking weak/flaky, your PC literally needs to be on your lap due to the DP cable. I have a 25 foot *24 gauge* half inch thick $200 DP 1.2 cable and it won't pass the signal properly. I get this:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I plug in the dinky 5 foot included cable and it works at 4K 60 Hz. For those that don't like to be sitting on your computer, this is a no-go. I know DP 1.2 has incredibly bad signal strength and no distance, but I didn't know it was _this bad._
> 
> Hopefully HDMI 2.0 is much better at distance. I hate having the computer super close.


Vega, I know that you are not the kind of person to buy overpriced cables at Best Buy, so I am curious...What is special / what benefit is provided by a DP cable that is $200? Surely there are diminishing returns when increasing quality of the components within the cable, I would assume the returns greatly diminish before even getting close to a $200 price point.

Fill me in, please.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Remmib*
> 
> Wow there were some rustled jimmies a few pages back.
> Vega, I know that you are not the kind of person to buy overpriced cables at Best Buy, so I am curious...What is special / what benefit is provided by a DP cable that is $200? Surely there are diminishing returns when increasing quality of the components within the cable, I would assume the returns greatly diminish before even getting close to a $200 price point.
> 
> Fill me in, please.


Remember the day's of HDMI cables being 20$ a foot?


----------



## Scorpion667

Guys I can't enable lightboost with single screen on 331.82 driver... any ideas?

tried re installing the 120hz strobed via ToastyX app again several times, even resetting my display...


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Remmib*
> 
> Wow there were some rustled jimmies a few pages back.
> Vega, I know that you are not the kind of person to buy overpriced cables at Best Buy, so I am curious...What is special / what benefit is provided by a DP cable that is $200? Surely there are diminishing returns when increasing quality of the components within the cable, I would assume the returns greatly diminish before even getting close to a $200 price point.
> 
> Fill me in, please.


This isn't a silly best buy type issue and paying $180 for a plastic container.

The reason these cables I MUST use are because they are super thick for less resistance, or have active signal repeaters in them, or are fiber optic. A regular DP cable only carries a 4K signal EXTREMELY short distances, like 6 feet or less. My distance from display to computer is ~33 feet.


----------



## Remmib

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> This isn't a silly best buy type issue and paying $180 for a plastic container.
> 
> The reason these cables I MUST use are because they are super thick for less resistance, or have active signal repeaters in them, or are fiber optic. A regular DP cable only carries a 4K signal EXTREMELY short distances, like 6 feet or less. My distance from display to computer is ~33 feet.


I see, thanks.


----------



## kskwerl

So i have the ASUS VG248QE which I just got today. I am running it from my laptop via DVI and am unable to get 144hz (or anything above 60hz). My Laptop has a 680M and I do have a DisplayPort, so my questions is if I hook this monitor up via DisplayPort will I be able to get 144hz?

Here are my specs.


----------



## skupples

Has anyone heard anything about G-sync using "filler" frames?


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kskwerl*
> 
> So i have the ASUS VG248QE which I just got today. I am running it from my laptop via DVI and am unable to get 144hz (or anything above 60hz). My Laptop has a 680M and I do have a DisplayPort, so my questions is if I hook this monitor up via DisplayPort will I be able to get 144hz?
> 
> Here are my specs.


I'd imagine so. If they didn't put DP 1.2 on the 680M and kept it DP 1.1, that would be pathetic.


----------



## Scorpion667

What the...

seems I lost Lightboost with 311.82 (single monitor).
But I can't even get it back on 331.65 on which it was working fine before.
Tried Safe Mode, DDU wipe in between both drivers, reboots before and after any install/uninstall and no luck re installing it with ToastyX.

Even tried removing the monitor driver(+reboot) prior to installing with toastyX

I've had nothing by software problems with win 8.1 64 =/

I was planning on reformatting to start clean, if I can't figure this out might as well.


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Guys I can't enable lightboost with single screen on 331.82 driver... any ideas?
> 
> tried re installing the 120hz strobed via ToastyX app again several times, even resetting my display...


I know this may sound stupid. But try this. Pull the power cord out of the wall socket. With your finger make sure you touch all the power prongs. By doing this you are denergizing the monitor. (still with the cord plugged into the monitor) There is a known problem and this is a solution. .. Sounds far out but it works. Pug it back in and then try enabling boost again..


----------



## kskwerl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I'd imagine so. If they didn't put DP 1.2 on the 680M and kept it DP 1.1, that would be pathetic.


can anyone confirm this?


----------



## kskwerl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I'd imagine so. If they didn't put DP 1.2 on the 680M and kept it DP 1.1, that would be pathetic.


So I found out my laptop only has DP 1.1. Can I still run 144hz? 120hz?


----------



## latexyankee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kskwerl*
> 
> So I found out my laptop only has DP 1.1. Can I still run 144hz? 120hz?


I believe you need DP 1.2 to run 120hz. I thought the 600 series had DP 1.2, not sure about the mobile versions.

Is that gpu able to output enough horsepower for a solid 120fps?


----------



## kskwerl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *latexyankee*
> 
> I believe you need DP 1.2 to run 120hz. I thought the 600 series had DP 1.2, not sure about the mobile versions.
> 
> Is that gpu able to output enough horsepower for a solid 120fps?


I will cry if that's the case. My laptop has a 680M but only a DisplayPort 1.1 NOT 1.2


----------



## amorello

Does 10% lightboost work on VG248QE triple monitor setup?


----------



## axiumone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amorello*
> 
> Does 10% lightboost work on VG248QE triple monitor setup?


Not with the latest drivers.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *axiumone*
> 
> Not with the latest drivers.


How about for a single monitor?


----------



## socketus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> The last drivers to work was version 327.23 . That version isnt 100% compatible with the new 8.1 upgrade to windows 8.
> 
> For example, the task bar is still spread across all screens. (with the later version it fixed that issue and the task bar is on just the center screen)
> Its maybe a 30% or more drop in fps than the newer drivers. They just dont like 8.1. So you either have lightboost on and crap play or off and smooth play..
> Version 327.23


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> How about for a single monitor?


single monitor is no problem, its lack of support for multiple monitor setup from the last several driver versions released by nvidia that IS the problem.
Problem especially if you are a BF4 player, what with several BF4 specific releases have been made in the last month.

http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Find.aspx?lang=en-us


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *socketus*
> 
> single monitor is no problem, its lack of support for multiple monitor setup from the last several driver versions released by nvidia that IS the problem.
> Problem especially if you are a BF4 player, what with several BF4 specific releases have been made in the last month.
> 
> http://www.nvidia.com/Download/Find.aspx?lang=en-us


Oh you mean there's a lot of issues with BF4 with the latest drivers even for a single monitor setup?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Has anyone heard anything about G-sync using "filler" frames?


I have a visual / temporal understanding of how they work.

They are just simply repeat re-scans of the refreshes on the LCD (done internally by the monitor and/or drivers), every 1/30second if no new frame has yet been delivered. If the game crashes, the monitor automatically keeps refreshing the last frame every 1/30second. Anytime no new frame arrived at the monitor yet, the monitor/driver subsystem is simply refreshing the last complete frame. These repeat refreshes are necessary to keep the pixels fresh. These freshening-up refresh passes takes 6.9 milliseconds (since the refresh passes occur in 1/144second = 6.9ms) on the first G-SYNC monitors. (The freshen refresh occures at the monitor's specified maximum speed of a single refresh. So, in the future, 240Hz G-SYNC monitors, the freshen refresh passes will take only 4.1 milliseconds -- 1/240sec, limiting your stall to 4.1 milliseconds).

If a new frame arrives when a repeat refresh isn't occuring, it'll look exactly as if G-SYNC natively supports a below-30fps rate.
If a new frame arrives when a repeat refresh IS occuring, it'll simpy ultrabriefly wait till that's done before it's displayed; added 0ms and 6.9ms.

It won't make low framerates worse. GSYNC 17fps will still look better than non-GSYNC 17fps.
The only thing is that if a new frame gets delivered while the LCD is doing a "freshen" refresh, the frame has to wait until after the freshening refresh; so you get a delay of anywhere between 0ms and 6.9ms, depending on how far along the current freshening refresh pass is occuring. This is pretty good considering that with a 60Hz display, a refresh is often forced to wait 16.7ms.

If you can afford a G-SYNC monitor, you already have a good GPU, and your game won't be going below 30fps more than "occasionally", and even when it does, 30fps GPU lag is already 33ms, and when that occurs on a 60Hz display, it often adds yet another 16.7ms scanout on top, above-and-beyond. Compared to all of that, doing 30fps on a G-SYNC monitor, a brief wait (random value between 0ms and 6.9ms) caused by those refreshen refresh passes is nothing compared to doing the same sub-30fps on a non-GSYNC monitor. Doing sub-30fps on G-SYNC will still typically look better, because the frametime distortions caused by the repeat refresh passes, are smaller than the frametime distortions caused by being forced to wait for old-fashioned VSYNC, or the tearing problem of VSYNC OFF. Certain situations such as doing 28fps or 29fps, might create maybe 1 or 2 microstutters per second caused by the brief 6.9ms repeat-scans, but will still look MUCH better than doing the exact same 28fps or 29fps on a 60Hz monitor (much bigger microstutter during VSYNC ON, or tearing during VSYNC OFF) In fact, once you get 'out of the way' of the repeat scans, (e.g. doing 15fps), the repeat refresh cycles are completely finishing completely unnoticed in the idle gaps between new frames, with zero distortion to frametimes, so doing G-SYNC at certain low framerates would look exactly as if G-SYNC already natively supported that refresh rate. Intervals between frames below 30fps is already over 33ms, so there's plenty of opportunity for two or more 6.9ms refresh-passes to occur at very different times that aren't overlapping -- meaning, the repeat refreshes (taking 6.9ms) may often occur completely unnoticed, giving zero frametime distortion, and G-SYNC looks like it "natively" supports variable refresh rates below 30fps. Theoretically, in fact, if a game engine can accurately predict that it will run at a frame rate below 30fps, it can execute repeat refreshes "in advance". So perfect [email protected] is achievable with G-SYNC. Basically, a game engine that detects it is currently running at below 60fps, could automatically do two or three refreshes in a row, to allow the next frame to be precisely timed during a moment the monitor isn't repeat-refreshing, so that lower framerates can occur with zero gametime distortions. But since G-SYNC already does a good job at below 30fps, and users of G-SYNC monitors will rarely run less than 30fps except during brief periods, it generally won't be necessary for game makers to do that, considering that sub-30fps on a 60Hz monitor looks vastly worse than sub-30fps on a G-SYNC monitor.

*Thus, sub-30fps repeat refreshes are much ado about nothing, IMHO.*


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> What the...
> 
> seems I lost Lightboost with 311.82 (single monitor).
> But I can't even get it back on 331.65 on which it was working fine before.
> Tried Safe Mode, DDU wipe in between both drivers, reboots before and after any install/uninstall and no luck re installing it with ToastyX.
> 
> Even tried removing the monitor driver(+reboot) prior to installing with toastyX
> 
> I've had nothing by software problems with win 8.1 64 =/
> 
> I was planning on reformatting to start clean, if I can't figure this out might as well.


figured out the issue (finally!!!)
I had updated my motherboard BIOS and for some reason I had to disable driver signature enforcement for it to work again. Works fine now yay BF4


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Sorry if this has already been asked

Is there a release date for the G-SYNC chips for the Asus VG248QE and how much are they/predicted to be? Just curious


----------



## Shogon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Sorry if this has already been asked
> 
> Is there a release date for the G-SYNC chips for the Asus VG248QE and how much are they/predicted to be? Just curious


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nvidia*
> Q: When will I be able to purchase this?
> A: The NVIDIA G-SYNC Do-it-yourself kits for the ASUS VG248QE monitor will be available for purchase later this year. We will have more information to come on how and when to get G-SYNC enabled monitors in the future.


http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/faq

By later this year I hope it's before January, but I could be reading it wrong. Far as price goes seems like the max (could be wrong) might be $175 per module. Think I've seen more around $150 but I can't find an exact link/quote.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogon*
> 
> http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/faq
> 
> By later this year I hope it's before January, but I could be reading it wrong. Far as price goes seems like the max (could be wrong) might be $175 per module. Think I've seen more around $150 but I can't find an exact link/quote.


Ah cool thanks, bit expensive but hey, I already spent $500 on the monitor whats another $200 or so


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogon*
> 
> http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/faq
> 
> By later this year I hope it's before January, but I could be reading it wrong. Far as price goes seems like the max (could be wrong) might be $175 per module. Think I've seen more around $150 but I can't find an exact link/quote.


I read somewhere (also can't find link, LOL) that they are trying to bring it down to $135. Hmm...maybe I can sell the old board on eBay (if those are parts that die).


----------



## ikjadoon

Lightboost is working perfectly for me using the 331.82 drivers and BF4's rocking. )

Single VG248QE and I use the CRU program for Lightboost.


----------



## Shogon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikjadoon*
> 
> I read somewhere (also can't find link, LOL) that they are trying to bring it down to $135. Hmm...maybe I can sell the old board on eBay (if those are parts that die).


You are probably right, getting it under the $135 mark would be best for them, but hey it's a new thing so expect a markup of some kind. I really want them around $100 each since I'll be needing wanting 3 lol.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogon*
> 
> You are probably right, getting it under the $135 mark would be best for them, but hey it's a new thing so expect a markup of some kind. I really want them around $100 each since I'll be needing wanting 3 lol.


I'd pay for it at $175 or $200 but not over that, but yeah under or close to $100 would be much better seeing most of us are gonna be installing the chips ourselves


----------



## renaldy

Help pick one between this two

ASUS VG278HE ............... 27" ....... 1920×1080 ....... 144Hz ....... LightBoost

BENQ XL2720Z ................ 27" ....... 1920×1080 ....... 144Hz ....... BENQ Blur Reduction


----------



## Jodiuh

A little OT:

I'm having an issue w/ the BenQ XL2420TE keeping 144hz in BF4. If I set it in game, then check via the information menu, it says 144hz. If I quit the game, then join a new server the information menu reads 60hz. Any ideas? In order for me to get it @ 144hz, I have to switch it to another res, then go back to 1080P/144hz.


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikjadoon*
> 
> Lightboost is working perfectly for me using the 331.82 drivers and BF4's rocking. )
> 
> Single VG248QE and I use the CRU program for Lightboost.


Works fine for me on my XL2420T on the latest nV drivers, people are having issues with lightboost surround.


----------



## mdrejhon

Just posted a neat little tidbit about XL2720Z on my @BlurBusters Twitter.
(yes, it's in my hands now too).


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Just posted a neat little tidbit about XL2720Z on my @BlurBusters Twitter.
> (yes, it's in my hands now too).


Interesting, can't wait to see your review.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Just posted a neat little tidbit about XL2720Z on my @BlurBusters Twitter.
> (yes, it's in my hands now too).


Sweet, could you give us a teaser and say how long the strobes are.









Even though I doubt I could ever go back to a TN panel after the Eizo, still interested!


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Is there any word on other manufacturers producing a monitor to compete with the new BenQ? Asus?

I'm sitting here using tri sli 680s on a single monitor just to use the oh so nessecary lightboost.. The other two are just sitting there off/


----------



## latexyankee

I want to give Mdrejhon a special thumbes up for pressing Nvidia on the surround lightboost situation. He has more ''pull'' and contacts than any of us. Even though I'm pessimistic regarding a fix, check out the last paragraph of his post here...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=90737477&postcount=79#post90737477

Thanks Mark, we appreciate it.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Just posted a neat little tidbit about XL2720Z on my @BlurBusters Twitter.
> (yes, it's in my hands now too).


Is there anything you can tell us prior to your review? I'm really accustomed to my new xl2720T but if the Z version has a better panel too and costs the same, then i'll switch it. I only got 16 days left or so on my warranty before it mine for keeps.


----------



## Z Overlord

I'm tempted to get a eizo fg2421, convince me not to or to wait

Also does the response time and input lag compare to my monitor listed below?


----------



## Icarian

I'm ordering one today, I was thinking about waiting for G-Sync and all, but after thinking it over, G-Sync will only work on certain monitors, will not work with all games and will only be usable by nVidia GPUs, plus there's no word on strobe and variable refresh rate, so you got to choose between smoother gamplay, or no motion blur... all in all, G-Sync seems too green for me to consider it, if they were to at least open it up so I can use it with whatever GPU/Display I want, I'd consider it, maybe.

Your screen has high inuput lag, I remember reading about it when I was shopping for a monitor back in '10, it has about 25ms~ iirc.


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *latexyankee*
> 
> I want to give Mdrejhon a special thumbes up for pressing Nvidia on the surround lightboost situation. He has more ''pull'' and contacts than any of us. Even though I'm pessimistic regarding a fix, check out the last paragraph of his post here...
> 
> http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=90737477&postcount=79#post90737477
> 
> Thanks Mark, we appreciate it.


Yes. We do.... Its a shame you have been shunted from all of this.. I remember a movie watched about the invention of the intermittent windshield wiper.. That guy got shunted by Ford. He fort back and won millions.


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> I'm tempted to get a eizo fg2421, convince me not to or to wait
> 
> Also does the response time and input lag compare to my monitor listed below?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Icarian*
> 
> I'm ordering one today, I was thinking about waiting for G-Sync and all, but after thinking it over, G-Sync will only work on certain monitors, will not work with all games and will only be usable by nVidia GPUs, plus there's no word on strobe and variable refresh rate, so you got to choose between smoother gamplay, or no motion blur... all in all, G-Sync seems too green for me to consider it, if they were to at least open it up so I can use it with whatever GPU/Display I want, I'd consider it, maybe.
> 
> Your screen has high inuput lag, I remember reading about it when I was shopping for a monitor back in '10, it has about 25ms~ iirc.


Yes.. Skip the Eizo Overlord... Trust me.. (or your instinct)


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> Yes.. Skip the Eizo Overlord... Trust me.. (or your instinct)


wait but his post sounded por Eizo lol

My only concern is something better coming out soon, or already out but that's not logical, because the strobe effect is pretty amazing.


----------



## Icarian

Do you need to replace your display? if so, I'd buy the Eizo or whichever you like and be done with it, If you don't really need to replace it, I'd wait to see how G-Sync turns out, but there isn't anything better coming out within the next 4-6 months (I guess that's what you mean by "soon")

G-Sync might turn out to be really good, but like I said, it will do nothing for motion blur for now as you can't have strobing backlight and variable refresh rate at the same time, it'll also not work with all the games, and you have to buy a $175 PCB if you want to use with compatible monitors that are out right now, or buy very specific models that we still have yet to know when they'll be released and what are their specs, plus it's only for nvidia cards, so if you switch to AMD it'll render all that useless.

If you keep waiting for the next big thing you'll always be waiting, for me, I've been waiting for a display that is 120hz and isn't a TN panel, so I'm willing to try it, If it doesn't meet my expectations I'll just return it.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Icarian*
> 
> Do you need to replace your display? if so, I'd buy the Eizo or whichever you like and be done with it, If you don't really need to replace it, I'd wait to see how G-Sync turns out, but there isn't anything better coming out within the next 4-6 months (I guess that's what you mean by "soon")
> 
> G-Sync might turn out to be really good, but like I said, it will do nothing for motion blur for now as you can't have strobing backlight and variable refresh rate at the same time, it'll also not work with all the games, and you have to buy a $175 PCB if you want to use with compatible monitors that are out right now, or buy very specific models that we still have yet to know when they'll be released and what are their specs, plus it's only for nvidia cards, so if you switch to AMD it'll render all that useless.
> 
> If you keep waiting for the next big thing you'll always be waiting, for me, I've been waiting for a display that is 120hz and isn't a TN panel, so I'm willing to try it, If it doesn't meet my expectations I'll just return it.


yeah this makes sense, g-sync and 120Hz strobe lighted non-TN is too far off to worth waiting for, and like you said, it would force all future graphics card purchases to be nvidia. I value less motion blur for a multiplayer fps over g-sync anyways


----------



## raum

Sorry if Im missing something here, but Im having some problems with my vg248qe

Testufo.com says `valid 60 fps and 60 hz` when Im @ 120/144hz with Vsync on and hardware accel off.

It also says `SYNC FAILURE: Imperfect sync. Try closing all apps and browser tabs.` when hardware accel on with these results:
- about 110 fps when the monitor is @ 144hz
- about 65 fps when the monitor is @ 120hz

It was working before, but something must have changed and I cannot figure what that is.

Edit: Turning windows aero fixed this.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raum*
> 
> Edit: Turning windows aero fixed this.


Correct, TestUFO requires AERO.
Most web browers only supports 120fps with Aero enabled.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> Is there anything you can tell us prior to your review? I'm really accustomed to my new xl2720T but if the Z version has a better panel too and costs the same, then i'll switch it. I only got 16 days left or so on my warranty before it mine for keeps.


It's the same panel.
It also has LightBoost, too.

I've found some interesting behavior differences between LightBoost (100,120Hz) and BENQ Blur Reduction (75-144Hz capable). They are certainly strobing modes (also confirmed by high speed camera), but with some different behaviours. Pros and cons exist of choosing either LightBoost versus BENQ Blur Reduction. I'm talking to BENQ privately before I'm disclosing. Keep tuned.


----------



## Arizonian

So any word on 2560 x 1440 G-Sync monitors?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> It's the same panel.
> It also has LightBoost, too.
> 
> I've found some interesting behavior differences between LightBoost (100,120Hz) and BENQ Blur Reduction (75-144Hz capable). They are certainly strobing modes (also confirmed by high speed camera), but with some different behaviours. Pros and cons exist of choosing either LightBoost versus BENQ Blur Reduction. I'm talking to BENQ privately before I'm disclosing. Keep tuned.


Thanks! I appreciate the feedback. I've got a dead pixel anyways so im going to return this montior (2720t) this week. I'll hold off till the Z reviews are out before I re-purchase.


----------



## Jodiuh

Just tried LB. Wow, just wow. Sadly, it does hurt my eyes/head a little too much. I am going to keep trying and see if I can get used to it.









Also, I know a couple of you had issues w/ your XL2420TE's in LB mode, but I am not seeing any ripple or scan lines @ all. It tints everything a little too red, especially top 1/2 of the monitor, but that's not a big deal IMO.


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> Just tried LB. Wow, just wow. Sadly, it does hurt my eyes/head a little too much. I am going to keep trying and see if I can get used to it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I know a couple of you had issues w/ your XL2420TE's in LB mode, but I am not seeing any ripple or scan lines @ all. It tints everything a little too red, especially top 1/2 of the monitor, but that's not a big deal IMO.


You get used to lightboosf, I got a terrible headache the first time I used it but it's worth it. Also, I didn't really notice any red on my XL2420T the monitor just got darker is all. Best of luck to you with lightboost.


----------



## Jodiuh

Thanks! A friend of mine said it took him 2 weeks. Was getting headaches, etc.

The monitor is probably going to be RMA'd.



As you can see from the above image, the top 1/2 is considerably dimmer/darker than the bottom 1/2. The interesting part is that in LB mode, the top 1/2 becomes very pink, almost red, while the bottom 1/2 is more bluish. I truly, truly hate the TN panel. It's just plain evil. If I try to sit back and watch some of The Office, faces flat out disappear from view, lol! I never realized just how much better IPS viewing angles were until now.

But even w/ all the issues, my gaming experience has gone to a happy place...a VERY, VERY happy place.


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> Thanks! A friend of mine said it took him 2 weeks. Was getting headaches, etc.
> 
> The monitor is probably going to be RMA'd.
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see from the above image, the top 1/2 is considerably dimmer/darker than the bottom 1/2. The interesting part is that in LB mode, the top 1/2 becomes very pink, almost red, while the bottom 1/2 is more bluish. I truly, truly hate the TN panel. It's just plain evil. If I try to sit back and watch some of The Office, faces flat out disappear from view, lol! I never realized just how much better IPS viewing angles were until now.
> 
> But even w/ all the issues, my gaming experience has gone to a happy place...a VERY, VERY happy place.


The monitor is pretty easily adjusted so viewing angles aren't a problem, at least not to me. And yeah, that definitely doesn't look normal, I'd RMA it as well. Wait until you get used to lightboost, it's amazing.


----------



## Scorpion49

Hey guys, I would really like to try lightboost but I'm not sure its a good option for me. Right now I have the Asus VG236HE and while I love the 120hz for gaming, on the desktop and internet browsing this thing absolutely destroys my eyes, especially on a lighter background. It feels like I'm staring at the sun no matter how low I turn the brightness, and the menu for adjusting the settings is so awful (combined with sticking buttons) that I haven't really found a setting I can enjoy. I messed around with the AMD control panel as well and its still killing me, I wind up with a headache and the desire to close my eyes within 20 minutes or so of using it. I ended up bringing my old VW266H home from work to use in the mean time after I got rid of my 3007WFP.

What should I go for if I wanted to keep the high refresh rate and motion clarity? I was looking at the BenQ XL2420TE which is affordable, but I don't know if it will solve this issue.


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Hey guys, I would really like to try lightboost but I'm not sure its a good option for me. Right now I have the Asus VG236HE and while I love the 120hz for gaming, on the desktop and internet browsing this thing absolutely destroys my eyes, especially on a lighter background. It feels like I'm staring at the sun no matter how low I turn the brightness, and the menu for adjusting the settings is so awful (combined with sticking buttons) that I haven't really found a setting I can enjoy. I messed around with the AMD control panel as well and its still killing me, I wind up with a headache and the desire to close my eyes within 20 minutes or so of using it. I ended up bringing my old VW266H home from work to use in the mean time after I got rid of my 3007WFP.
> 
> What should I go for if I wanted to keep the high refresh rate and motion clarity? I was looking at the BenQ XL2420TE which is affordable, but I don't know if it will solve this issue.


Definitely don't go for the VG248QE if brightness is an issue. But, I guess that depends on how bright your VG236HE is.

On my VG248QE, I have to have the light on in my room. If I don't, my eyes literally start to water staring at the screen for more than an hour, lol.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikjadoon*
> 
> Definitely don't go for the VG248QE if brightness is an issue. But, I guess that depends on how bright your VG236HE is.
> 
> On my VG248QE, I have to have the light on in my room. If I don't, my eyes literally start to water staring at the screen for more than an hour, lol.


VG248QE is definitely not an option. Saw it in the store, instant NOPE.


----------



## renaldy

i wish there was a higher resolution monitor than 1080p with lightboost


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> So any word on 2560 x 1440 G-Sync monitors?


Word on the street is end of next year, in TN only for the time being. Nvidia claims that it's slated to come in all shapes & sizes, just not ips or oled.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Word on the street is end of next year, in TN only for the time being. Nvidia claims that it's slated to come in all shapes & sizes, just not ips or oled.


Bummer. Thanks for the word.


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Word on the street is end of next year, in TN only for the time being. Nvidia claims that it's slated to come in all shapes & sizes, just not ips or oled.


Might have to get rid of my XL2420T then, 1440p TN 24" with 120hz lightboost please.


----------



## ruimfine

nice review
display-corner.epfl.ch/index.php/EIZO_FORIS_FG2421


----------



## Slaughtahouse

@mdrejhon

Can you run the "Moving Photo" or "Ghosting" test? You seem the only person on the internet who has one of these displays lol. If it has the same ghosting, i'm just going to exchange my monitor for another 2720t. If it's actually better, i'll return and wait for the Z suffix version. I'm not sure if you are under any review embargo but any more details would be great. Thanks again.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ruimfine*
> 
> nice review
> display-corner.epfl.ch/index.php/EIZO_FORIS_FG2421


That's StrobeMaster from HardForum, the guy who reverse engineered LightBoost electronics. He is a researcher from Switzerland, and has great writings from the researcher/engineering viewpoint. This information is extremely useful in the improvement of any subsequent version of a 120Hz VA monitor. The measured data he has found is correct and confirmed by my side as well -- and its flaws -- but I actually have a more positive end-user impression of the monitor.

The optimist in me, realizes when someone uses a CRT, you live with CRT artifacts -- you've often got voltage sag and slight image shrinkage with extremely bright images than with extremely dim images. You've also often got astigmasm issues, and mis-convergence epsecially at corners. And you've got skew (parallelogramming) during fast horizontal panning during 60Hz. The fact that VA has gotten this far is still rather impressive to Blur Busters, while Blur Busters also understands the technical limitations/artifacts that often inevitably comes from a "Version 1.0" (first release) of a new technology. Overall, I think it's a fairly good Version 1.0 of a 120Hz VA LCD panel, and I'm pretty happy with it. (I just moved the website to the new web server... So that has pushed the review back a few days)


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> @mdrejhon
> Can you run the "Moving Photo" or "Ghosting" test? You seem the only person on the internet who has one of these displays lol. If it has the same ghosting, i'm just going to exchange my monitor for another 2720t. If it's actually better, i'll return and wait for the Z suffix version. I'm not sure if you are under any review embargo but any more details would be great. Thanks again.


I have what I believe is beta firmware. I need to discuss details with BENQ first because a monitor firmware update might be forthcoming, and I'd rather not make comments (without BENQ's permission) on unreleased firmware.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Alright, thanks. Just keep this thread up to date as much as you can. I know, just by googling, there are a lot of people interested in the Z version.


----------



## Scorpion667

I'll either snag the Eizo on sale or wait for it's successor. Going on a trip to see family soon so money is TIGHT right meow.

I will admit the matte glare on my XL2420T is driving me bananas. I love the aesthetics and frame of the Benq but MY GOD is antiglare coating the most stupid idiotic thing.... EVER. Kind of like the much lighter AG coating on the Eizo, but not as much as I like traveling to Russia to see family...


----------



## kskwerl

I'm confused I have the ASUS VG248QE. There's a Lightboost button on the Menu, can I just enable that or is using http://www.monitortests.com/strobelight-beta3.zip Strobelight enabler different?


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kskwerl*
> 
> I'm confused I have the ASUS VG248QE. There's a Lightboost button on the Menu, can I just enable that or is using http://www.monitortests.com/strobelight-beta3.zip Strobelight enabler different?


Just use ToastyX Strobelight utility
http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Strobelight-LightBoost-Utility-for-AMD-ATI-and-NVIDIA


----------



## kskwerl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> Just use ToastyX Strobelight utility
> http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Strobelight-LightBoost-Utility-for-AMD-ATI-and-NVIDIA


But what I'm asking is what's the difference between the strobe and LightBoost? Does the LightBoost not strobe?


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kskwerl*
> 
> But what I'm asking is what's the difference between the strobe and LightBoost? Does the LightBoost not strobe?


I'm pretty sure the Lightboost option in the VG248QE is for 3D. They both strobe, but the ToastyX utility allows you to run lightboost in 2D, don't quote me on this, it's just what I think. I don't own a VG248QE.


----------



## kskwerl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> I'm pretty sure the Lightboost option in the VG248QE is for 3D. They both strobe, but the ToastyX utility allows you to run lightboost in 2D, don't quote me on this, it's just what I think. I don't own a VG248QE.


thanks, can anyone confirm that this is the situation?


----------



## jerrolds

Are you guys dead set on the QNIX or something? I had the BenQ XL2420T w/ Lightboost *side by side* with it, and at 120hz the motion blur is honestly not that bad and everything else the QNIX DESTROYS the BenQ. Resolution, Color, Size, Image quality. I have the glossy QNIX and its really no comparison when it came to image quality, esp against the crazy anti glare from these name brand monitors.

Also PWM is a non-issue 3-4 clicks above lowest brightness, cant notice it at all.

The blur from 120hz PLS and lightboost hack not night and day - you get used to the slight blur pretty quick. It pains me to hear ppl getting headaches with LB and are forced to get used to it









Without LB the 2 are almost identical when it comes to blur. Both panels have identical input lag as well from what i can tell. I really wanted to like the BenQ especially since i got it for around $220CDN, but i found myself barely using it. Will probably try and find a smaller 22-23" 60hz IPS as a companion.

That Eizo FG panel looks very interesting though - kinda pricey, and i guess input lag isnt that good. I wouldnt mind seeing what thats all about


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jerrolds*
> 
> Are you guys dead set on the QNIX or something? I had the BenQ XL2420T w/ Lightboost *side by side* with it, and at 120hz the motion blur is honestly not that bad and everything else the QNIX DESTROYS the BenQ. Resolution, Color, Size, Image quality. I have the glossy QNIX and its really no comparison when it came to image quality, esp against the crazy anti glare from these name brand monitors.
> 
> Also PWM is a non-issue 3-4 clicks above lowest brightness, cant notice it at all.
> 
> The blur from 120hz PLS and lightboost hack not night and day - you get used to the slight blur pretty quick. It pains me to hear ppl getting headaches with LB and are forced to get used to it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Without LB the 2 are almost identical when it comes to blur. Both panels have identical input lag as well from what i can tell. I really wanted to like the BenQ especially since i got it for around $220CDN, but i found myself barely using it. Will probably try and find a smaller 22-23" 60hz IPS as a companion.
> 
> That Eizo FG panel looks very interesting though - kinda pricey, and i guess input lag isnt that good. I wouldnt mind seeing what thats all about


Maybe you can't tell the difference, but my friend's Catleap was a blurry mess at 120Hz compared to my XL2420T. I can easily tell the difference between lightboost on and lightboost off at 120Hz and that's on my XL2420T, I don't even want to think about comparing a Catleap or a Qnix to a lightboost enabled monitor. If you care about resolution, color, size, and image quality then more power to you, use your IPS/PLS 1440p monitor. If you can't tell the difference, lightboost probably isn't for you. Lightboost is mainly used by those who want miniscule motion blur, usually competitive FPS players (like me) and the difference is definitely night and day for me.


----------



## Icarian

Okay, got my Eizo today, and unless I can solve the right side issue that many people seem to have, this thing is a paper weight for anyone that want to use this for anything but office work

I was greeted by this as I boot up


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







It isn't backlight bleed


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







It only shows during non-100% black colors, black bars to the sides when viewing something that isn't 16:9 in full screen are pure black


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







It just seems to be a trait of the monitor itself and not a faulty screen from what I've read, if I can't make that go away it's going back, such a hassle...

EDIT: It's going back, I can't make that ugly gradient disappear, I don't really care much for the loss in color accuracy of my IPS, but having a huge ass gradient across the screen isn't something you can overlook, I've put it back in the box already.

It's such a shame, because black depth and Motion clarity with Turbo 240 is awesome, but they don't make up for it, not even close. I'd rather play on my 19" Dell TN.


----------



## crabula

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kskwerl*
> 
> thanks, can anyone confirm that this is the situation?


Yes. You need to use the toasty util (or other method, but toasty is best) to get lightboost working in 2D. Can't just turn it on in the monitor OSD settings.


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Icarian*
> 
> Okay, got my Eizo today, and unless I can solve the right side issue that many people seem to have, this thing is a paper weight for anyone that want to use this for anything but office work
> 
> I was greeted by this as I boot up
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't backlight bleed
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It only shows during non-100% black colors, black bars to the sides when viewing something that isn't 16:9 in full screen are pure black
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It just seems to be a trait of the monitor itself and not a faulty screen from what I've read, if I can't make that go away it's going back, such a hassle...
> 
> EDIT: It's going back, I can't make that ugly gradient disappear, I don't really care much for the loss in color accuracy of my IPS, but having a huge ass gradient across the screen isn't something you can overlook, I've put it back in the box already.
> 
> It's such a shame, because black depth and Motion clarity with Turbo 240 is awesome, but they don't make up for it, not even close. I'd rather play on my 19" Dell TN.


is so difficult to do a simple RMA ?


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> is so difficult to do a simple RMA ?


Did you read the text that you quoted?

"Okay, got my Eizo today, and unless I can solve the right side issue that many people seem to have"

Why RMA if there is a perceived high likelihood of the same issue happening? It is a waste of time and money(shipping). I'm not aware of any widespread issue but the answer to your question lies in the text which you quoted.


----------



## Icarian

Yeah, aside from Vega and someone else, all the Eizo I've seen have this :/


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jerrolds*
> 
> The blur from 120hz PLS and lightboost hack not night and day - you get used to the slight blur pretty quick.


Slight blur?









Once your brain gets used to using a strobing backlight display, then you go back to one of these slow pixel sample-and-hold 120 Hz IPS or PLS "overclock" displays, it's unbearable blur. At least for games that pan quite a bit, or FPS's. If all you do is play hello kitty online, then it won't matter as much.









If I showed you the AFK Skyrim spinning test between the two, "slight" blur would not be the word you would be using a half a second after seeing the compared images.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Slight blur?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once your brain gets used to using a strobing backlight display, then you go back to one of these slow pixel sample-and-hold 120 Hz IPS or PLS "overclock" displays, it's unbearable blur. At least for games that pan quite a bit, or FPS's. If all you do is play hello kitty online, then it won't matter as much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I showed you the AFK Skyrim spinning test between the two, "slight" blur would not be the word you would be using a half a second after seeing the compared images.


\

After using my XL2720T (lightboost) and my normal samsung 2233rz (non light boost 120hz) the difference is definitely *NOT* night and day. Maybe because I have been accustomed to 120hz for a long time now but going from 120hz to 120hz light boost didn't make much of a difference. Only in the UFO tests did I really see a good use of it.


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> \
> 
> After using my XL2720T (lightboost) and my normal samsung 2233rz (non light boost 120hz) the difference is definitely *NOT* night and day. Maybe because I have been accustomed to 120hz for a long time now but going from 120hz to 120hz light boost didn't make much of a difference. Only in the UFO tests did I really see a good use of it.


Maybe it's you? I can easily tell the difference, I use lightboost 24/7, I can't even browse the web without it. Firefox has such nice smoothscrolling, combine it with lightboost and it's amazing.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> Maybe it's you? I can easily tell the difference, I use lightboost 24/7, I can't even browse the web without it. Firefox has such nice smoothscrolling, combine it with lightboost and it's amazing.


Well the thing is, without lightboost, the 2720t still has motion blur. Like any other 120hz monitor. With lightboost on, it has a noticable ghosting effect. I wish I could see without the ghosting but even with the ghosting, it still wasn't NIGHT AND DAY as some people mention it. Of course this is subjective but from my experience thus far, i'm not blown away. The greatest aspect of LB for me was the fact that it made the monitor really really dim. Even more so then I could calibrate it from the monitor without using nvidia control panel.

That being said, I returned my 2720T back to Canada Computers a few hours ago.


----------



## jerrolds

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Slight blur?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once your brain gets used to using a strobing backlight display, then you go back to one of these slow pixel sample-and-hold 120 Hz IPS or PLS "overclock" displays, it's unbearable blur. At least for games that pan quite a bit, or FPS's. If all you do is play hello kitty online, then it won't matter as much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I showed you the AFK Skyrim spinning test between the two, "slight" blur would not be the word you would be using a half a second after seeing the compared images.


Meh - dont get me wrong, theres definite blur - but [email protected] still better than [email protected], To me, going down to 1080p from 1440p, 27" to 23" and TN from IPS was not even close to being worth it for the slightly better motion clarity. I had the UFO test spanned across both screens and i kept saying to myself "well...the blur really isnt THAT bad, but look how garbage the TN looks, damn i dont think i can use the LB as my main gaming monitor."

The increased resolution alone made up for any "competitive edge that LB gives", in any modern FPS. Add to the fact that LB hack makes the monitor dimmer doesnt help.

I can only see blur being a real issue for super fast games like Quake 2, where youre doing 720+ degree turns to rail-chain while strafe jumping. BF4 is a much slower twitch game, if you can call it that.

I compared LB vs QNIX using Half Life 2, BF3 - and i found QNIX to give me the better advantage. I really wanted to keep the BenQ w/ LB..but i couldnt..it was just too bad in every other area. I wasnt aware there was a Hello Kitty online.


----------



## jerrolds

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> \
> 
> After using my XL2720T (lightboost) and my normal samsung 2233rz (non light boost 120hz) the difference is definitely *NOT* night and day. Maybe because I have been accustomed to 120hz for a long time now but going from 120hz to 120hz light boost didn't make much of a difference. Only in the UFO tests did I really see a good use of it.


Exactly, going from 120hz -> 120hz w/ LB is not as dramatic as some might think I would actually think the jump from 60hz -> 120hz was a bigger impact.

Maybe if it also didnt degrade image quality as much as it does the wow factor would be more pronounced, i just remember thinking to myself "yes, damn that UFO is pretty clear...but everything else..what happened?"


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jerrolds*
> 
> Meh - dont get me wrong, theres definite blur - but [email protected] still better than [email protected], To me, going down to 1080p from 1440p, 27" to 23" and TN from IPS was not even close to being worth it for the slightly better motion clarity. I had the UFO test spanned across both screens and i kept saying to myself "well...the blur really isnt THAT bad, but look how garbage the TN looks, damn i dont think i can use the LB as my main gaming monitor."
> 
> The increased resolution alone made up for any "competitive edge that LB gives", in any modern FPS. Add to the fact that LB hack makes the monitor dimmer doesnt help.
> 
> I can only see blur being a real issue for super fast games like Quake 2, where youre doing 720+ degree turns to rail-chain while strafe jumping. BF4 is a much slower twitch game, if you can call it that.
> 
> I compared LB vs QNIX using Half Life 2, BF3 - and i found QNIX to give me the better advantage. I really wanted to keep the BenQ w/ LB..but i couldnt..it was just too bad in every other area. I wasnt aware there was a Hello Kitty online.


You may want to look into the Eizo, as it retains all of the great image quality of VA combined with the motion quality of LB. True, it doesn't have 1440P resolution but then again you can just get three of them like myself.


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jerrolds*
> 
> Exactly, going from 120hz -> 120hz w/ LB is not as dramatic as some might think I would actually think the jump from 60hz -> 120hz was a bigger impact.
> 
> Maybe if it also didnt degrade image quality as much as it does the wow factor would be more pronounced, i just remember thinking to myself "yes, damn that UFO is pretty clear...but everything else..what happened?"


I think it looks fine even with lightboost, colors still look ok.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jerrolds*
> 
> Exactly, going from 120hz -> 120hz w/ LB is not as dramatic as some might think I would actually think the jump from 60hz -> 120hz was a bigger impact.
> 
> Maybe if it also didnt degrade image quality as much as it does the wow factor would be more pronounced, i just remember thinking to myself "yes, damn that UFO is pretty clear...but everything else..what happened?"


Well, to notice the LB efffect on the UFO or the moving pictures, you have to focus your eyes on that object and follow it. Only then can you really notice the crazy smoothness. The problem I found was when I was gaming, im still focused on the center of my display (usually a reticle) and the textures or environment around me still has motion blur. That's just like real life. For example, a train passing by. If you just stare towards it, all the trains will kind of blur. If you focus your eyes on one cart and follow it, it will look really smooth. If you understand what im getting at lmao.

I found it really cool to see lightboost work like that but in the end, the difference between not having light boost and having it isn't that noticeable in a gaming situation. Not enough for me to say "MAN I NEED LIGHT BOOST" or "WOW 120HZ WITH LIGHTBOOST IS THE ONLY WAY"

Again, this is just me. I don't represent anyone but my self.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> If you focus your eyes on one cart and follow it, it will look really smooth. If you understand what im getting at lmao.


This is correct. LightBoost (or any form of strobing, Turbo240 or BENQ Blur Reduction) only benefits situations of eye tracking. Some players stare at the crosshairs at all times, while others like to eye-track all over the place (circle strafing, high speed flybys, fast characters, identifying enemies while turning, side scrolling platformers, reading while scrolling, etc). If you're a player that typically stares at the center of the screen, then you won't benefit as much from strobing.

If you're an eye-tracker, and are able to sustain triple-digit framerates, you'll easily see the zero motion blur effect (crystal clear UFO effect) in your games -- that's also widely known by CRT old timers as the "CRT effect".

Color degradation varies a lot from monitor to monitor for their strobed versus non-strobed modes.
Also, you can now get strobing with far less image quality compromises -- e.g. the Eizo FG2421 stays pretty bright in strobed mode.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

It's not that I just stare at reticle 24/7. Some times I do sit back and try to observe the scene. But even in games like BF4, you have to keep on the move. There is a lot to see and you can't really keep focus. I'd imagine it would be more noticeable in games like ARMA . Or possibly racing games. Side Scrollers too.

Here's hoping the XL2720Z doesn't have the ghosting of the T version.


----------



## jincuteguy

Is 120hz over 60hz is really insane? I haven't experienced it in games yet.


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> It's not that I just stare at reticle 24/7. Some times I do sit back and try to observe the scene. But even in games like BF4, you have to keep on the move. There is a lot to see and you can't really keep focus. I'd imagine it would be more noticeable in games like ARMA . Or possibly racing games. Side Scrollers too.
> 
> Here's hoping the XL2720Z doesn't have the ghosting of the T version.


It helps me in BF4 in close-quarters, when I circle-strafe. Everything is just smoother. However, I had bigger differences in BF3 with Lightboost vs. non-Lightboost...not sure why.

Note to all BF4 players:

Eliminate tearing WITHOUT using V-Sync: go into your console and type "GameTime.MaxVariableFPS xxx" with xxx being your monitor's refresh rate in Hz. So, 100 for 100Hz, etc.

I have no idea how this works, but people said it works different than V-Sync. And it does, I can happily report!


----------



## jeri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> You may want to look into the Eizo, as it retains all of the great image quality of VA combined with the motion quality of LB. True, it doesn't have 1440P resolution but then again you can just get three of them like myself.


then he should just buy 3 of them at once and hope for luck, to get the proper one without all the bleeding and the other "broken" stuff


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Did you read the text that you quoted?
> 
> "Okay, got my Eizo today, and unless I can solve the right side issue that many people seem to have"
> 
> Why RMA if there is a perceived high likelihood of the same issue happening? It is a waste of time and money(shipping). I'm not aware of any widespread issue but the answer to your question lies in the text which you quoted.


With RMA Eizo repair your monitor not replace and if is not so, then you can request it.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jincuteguy*
> 
> Is 120hz over 60hz is really insane? I haven't experienced it in games yet.


It's not insane, but for gaming there really is no other way. Even moving around in Windows is nicer. I'm not conditioned to 120hz but if I had the choice for a gaming monitor, it would have to be a 120hz one. I highly recommend anyone to try it.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikjadoon*
> 
> It helps me in BF4 in close-quarters, when I circle-strafe. Everything is just smoother. However, I had bigger differences in BF3 with Lightboost vs. non-Lightboost...not sure why.
> 
> Note to all BF4 players:
> 
> Eliminate tearing WITHOUT using V-Sync: go into your console and type "GameTime.MaxVariableFPS xxx" with xxx being your monitor's refresh rate in Hz. So, 100 for 100Hz, etc.
> 
> I have no idea how this works, but people said it works different than V-Sync. And it does, I can happily report!


Setting an FPS cap does not eliminate tearing. Only V-Sync or G-Sync can do that. Setting a 120 Hz FPS cap though does minimize it to IMO an acceptable level.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeri*
> 
> then he should just buy 3 of them at once and hope for luck, to get the proper one without all the bleeding and the other "broken" stuff


Considering I got three "good ones" on the first try, I don't think the chances are as bleak as you make them out to be.


----------



## jerrolds

$600 is a bit pricey for me esp if i lose out on all the other goodies, i wonder if theyre under any decent Black Friday deals haha

Like 50%+ off









EDIT: Amazon has it on sale, 6% off heh


----------



## jeri

well i dont wanna to gamble for that, even if wish the blacks/whites contrasts where better and black where black and this view angle... only realy visible from distance and on movies.


----------



## Z Overlord

So I want to get an Eizo FG2421 in the future when quality control is assured, or any strobe light monitor that isn't lightboost since I don't have an nvidia card. But when reading the lightboost FAQ (which I assume also applies to strobe light monitors) I found this:

_Microstutters become easier to detect if they're no longer masked by motion blur. To eliminate stutters, run LightBoost at frame rates matching the refresh rate.
(a) Run at 100fps @ 100Hz, or run at 120fps @ 120Hz._

and

_VSYNC OFF will produce less input lag, for a better competitive advantage during online game play. There may be more tearing artifacts, however.
VSYNC ON can produce a much smoother LightBoost effect (if you can get a frame rate matching refresh rate, such as 120fps @ 120Hz). This can be preferable during solo gaming, when a competitive advantage is not required._

I always play with V Sync off, I can't tolerate the feel of the mouse with V Sync on. I play TF2 on my 60Hz LCD with V Sync off and the fps_max set to 132. I have it set to 132 because that is the value where I stop seeing screen tearing. Since I don't use V Sync, I gotta eliminate screen tearing via very high framerates which reduce screen tearing to nearly unnoticeable or even non existant levels (at least to the human eye). If I were to get the FG2421, I would still have the fps cap set to 132 because 120 fps does give me screen tearing. But that FAQ makes it seem that having the fps set to a different value than your monitor's refresh rate will be problematic. Since the writer of the FAQ browses this thread, I hope to have this answered. What will happen if I am using the FG2421 (with Turbo240 on) and TF2 with no V Sync set to fps_max 132? Assuming I get a constant 132fps. In fact, since you have the monitor Mr. Blur Buster Chief, can you test TF2 with the scenario I just mentioned? I wanna know what happens.


----------



## Rickles

Meh, I ordered a XL2420TE today, the Eizo just seems like more miss than hit in terms of good panels.


----------



## Jack Mac

Enjoy that XL2420TE, I love my XL2420T.


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Setting an FPS cap does not eliminate tearing. Only V-Sync or G-Sync can do that. Setting a 120 Hz FPS cap though does minimize it to IMO an acceptable level.


Eh, good point. The FPS still isn't synced with the refresh rate. But, exactly: I had no idea this was an available option and it has no downsides.

V-SYNC just has terrible input lag. Even on my 125Hz mouse, V-SYNC on versus off is a huge difference in mouse smoothness.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

^ I'm contemplating on getting one of those too. I know it doesn't have the ghosting of the 27" and I think the 27" was a bit too big. Problem is, im coming up from a 22" 16:10 120hz monitor. I want to make sure the upgrade is worth it. It's 315$ right now on amazon canada, which is really cheap considering locally would be roughly 450$.

I can't make up my mind!

Thing is, im dying to find out about this 2720z version, if that hasn't been apparent lol. If it still has the ghosting, im going with 24".


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> ^ I'm contemplating on getting one of those too. I know it doesn't have the ghosting of the 27" and I think the 27" was a bit too big. Problem is, im coming up from a 22" 16:10 120hz monitor. I want to make sure the upgrade is worth it. It's 315$ right now on amazon canada, which is really cheap considering locally would be roughly 450$.
> 
> I can't make up my mind!
> 
> Thing is, im dying to find out about this 2720z version, if that hasn't been apparent lol. If it still has the ghosting, im going with 24".


I can say up front, that the XL2420TE has much less LightBoost ghosting than both the XL2720T and XL2720Z (both of them appears to use the same panel). The LightBoost clarity champions with virtually zero ghosting/zero motion blur, are the VG248QE, XL2411T, and the 144Hz version of XL2420T's (XL2420T Rev 2.0 or the XL2420TE). The 3D crosstalk is also much fainter on them too, as 2D strobe crosstalk/ghosting effect and 3D crosstalk are exactly the same in faintness/intensity.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Wow.. the price went from 315$ to 450$... if it drops back on Monday i'll just go with the 24 TE. Thanks for the response, as usual


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> always play with V Sync off, I can't tolerate the feel of the mouse with V Sync on. I play TF2 on my 60Hz LCD with V Sync off and the fps_max set to 132. I have it set to 132 because that is the value where I stop seeing screen tearing.


That's still going to benefit well from LightBoost.
I also agree it is useful to set fps_max to values that aren't harmonics of the refresh rate. On very fast GPU's, fps_max (119,120,121) and (239,240,241) are pretty bad because those leads to stationary or slow-moving tearline effects.

That said, I should mention enabling strobing makes tearing easier to see at higher frame rates, so you may have an incentive to keep raising fps_max to compensate. Note that other odd values such as fps_max 265 or fps_max 344 may look even better, provided you have a GPU powerful enough to typically hit 265fps or 344fps in these older source-engine games.. Larger numbers of smaller-offset tearlines can help make tearing harder to see in these situations, if you have a GPU fast enough to go that far.

Strobing eliminates motion blur to the point that stutters/tearing are easier to see, so you really want good overkill of framerate to compensate. You might not see tearing at 132fps, but you might begin to see it again when strobing is enabled.

That said, try testing out "Adaptive VSYNC" if you are using an NVIDIA product -- it may keep latency low enough to be usable, while eliminating tearing during LightBoost use. Worth trying out, if you suddenly see tearing again during strobing, and can't raise the fps_max any further to compensate. I can see tearing at above 200fps with strobing, at least at certain fps_max values, so you may have to experiment for a new fps_max value. I found setting fps_max to a number above 300 made it tolerable, but your mileage will vary. Sometimes LightBoost just feels too 'jittery' with VSYNC OFF, so I tend to prefer VSYNC ON with strobing. The input lag of VSYNC ON during 120Hz is a lot less than the input lag of VSYNC ON during 60Hz. Someday we'll have 1000Hz monitors, and VSYNC ON will add only 1ms, but until that day arrives, G-SYNC provides a good stopgap of a compromise of eliminating tearing while keeping input lag low...


----------



## gopala33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> I can say up front, that the XL2420TE has much less LightBoost ghosting than both the XL2720T and XL2720Z (both of them appears to use the same panel). The LightBoost clarity champions with virtually zero ghosting/zero motion blur, are the VG248QE, XL2411T, and the 144Hz version of XL2420T's (XL2420T Rev 2.0 or the XL2420TE). The 3D crosstalk is also much fainter on them too, as 2D strobe crosstalk/ghosting effect and 3D crosstalk are exactly the same in faintness/intensity.


The LightBoost clarity champions with virtually zero ghosting/zero motion blur, are the VG248QE, XL2411T, and the 144Hz version of XL2420T's (XL2420T Rev 2.0 or the XL2420TE).

that 24inch only daam no 27inch so do i need wait 27inch monitor no ghosting


----------



## CallsignVega

I noticed a few new reviews of the Eizo FG2421 were released recently. I decided to take a look and compile all of the professional reviews and their closing thoughts.

Sweclockers.com: Seal of approval: Eizo Foris FG2421 is an outstanding gaming screen that does not compromise on the colors.

Flatpanelshd.com: EIZO FORIS FG2421 IS A SMALL REVOLUTION IN GAMING MONITORS, COMBINING GREAT PICTURE QUALITY WITH SPEED

Hardware.no: "Foris FG2421 is the best gaming monitor available today"

PurePc: "recommend" must be well earned, 4.5 out of 5 stars.

Prad.de: I didn't pay to read, but from what others have said they gave it high marks for gaming but lowered overall score simply for color "accuracy".

TFTCentral: "The overall gaming performance of the Eizo FG2421 was very good. There is a small additional lag or around 4ms added when Turbo 240 is enabled, but still not a huge number to worry about. Eizo and Sharp have done a great job in offering the first 120Hz compatible VA panel on the market, and it doesn't disappoint when it comes to gaming. As well as these areas, the VA panel was able to offer staggering contrast ratios which you just couldn't get from a TN Film model. The wider viewing angles add additional flexibility compared with TN Film and the screen benefited from that more rounded performance feel. The light semi-glossy AG coating, lack of PWM backlight dimming and decent connectivity options were very welcome. Gaming is obviously the key focus of the FG2421 and we felt it did very well thanks to all these factors.

I don't think I've seen such an overall highly reviewed monitor in quite some time and goes hand in hand with my experience.


----------



## Soulfire

I still find it very odd how many people are receiving defective products in the forums, yet how apparently none of the reviewers were so unlucky. I think you should acknowledge the apparent QC issues that they're having. It's pretty much the only reason I'm holding out on ordering one, that and the input lag I'm still not so sure about.


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soulfire*
> 
> I still find it very odd how many people are receiving defective products in the forums, yet how apparently none of the reviewers were so unlucky. I think you should acknowledge the apparent QC issues that they're having. It's pretty much the only reason I'm holding out on ordering one, that and the input lag I'm still not so sure about.


Are there that many defective monitors posts? It really doesn't seem like that to me.
The monitor forum sample (that you have seen) may not be representative of the population. And remember that unhappy people scream the loudest


----------



## Jack Mac

The only thing that sucks about the Eizo is the price, I'll keep my XL2420T until the Eizo's price comes down to Earth.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> The only thing that sucks about the Eizo is the price, I'll keep my XL2420T until the Eizo's price comes down to Earth.


Like wise. Spending 600$ on a 24" 1080p monitor is absurd.


----------



## Connolly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I noticed a few new reviews of the Eizo FG2421 were released recently. I decided to take a look and compile all of the professional reviews and their closing thoughts.
> 
> Sweclockers.com: Seal of approval: Eizo Foris FG2421 is an outstanding gaming screen that does not compromise on the colors.
> 
> Flatpanelshd.com: EIZO FORIS FG2421 IS A SMALL REVOLUTION IN GAMING MONITORS, COMBINING GREAT PICTURE QUALITY WITH SPEED
> 
> Hardware.no: "Foris FG2421 is the best gaming monitor available today"
> 
> PurePc: "recommend" must be well earned, 4.5 out of 5 stars.
> 
> Prad.de: I didn't pay to read, but from what others have said they gave it high marks for gaming but lowered overall score simply for color "accuracy".
> 
> TFTCentral: "The overall gaming performance of the Eizo FG2421 was very good. There is a small additional lag or around 4ms added when Turbo 240 is enabled, but still not a huge number to worry about. Eizo and Sharp have done a great job in offering the first 120Hz compatible VA panel on the market, and it doesn't disappoint when it comes to gaming. As well as these areas, the VA panel was able to offer staggering contrast ratios which you just couldn't get from a TN Film model. The wider viewing angles add additional flexibility compared with TN Film and the screen benefited from that more rounded performance feel. The light semi-glossy AG coating, lack of PWM backlight dimming and decent connectivity options were very welcome. Gaming is obviously the key focus of the FG2421 and we felt it did very well thanks to all these factors.
> 
> I don't think I've seen such an overall highly reviewed monitor in quite some time and goes hand in hand with my experience.


I've just received my FG2421 and it appears perfect. No backlight bleed, dead pixels or cross hatching. Maybe I was just lucky, but after speaking with the guys from Eizo UK for several days they said that they have now tested all of the recalled products and all seemed to pass the tests they've put them through. I don't know if people are seeing some unique technology and fancy testing it out, knowing that they can return it under the distance selling regulations - then just jump on the "back light bleed/cross hatching" band wagon when asked the reason for return. The only slight problem that I've been able to detect so far is a small amount of image doubling from white text on a black background, when in 240hz mode. This disappears completely when you switch back to User mode. People worrying about input lag really shouldn't, I can't detect any at all and I'm coming from using a TN gaming panel.

The only issue I have is purely personal. I'm playing Battlefield 4 pretty much exclusively at the moment and before now have been using a 60hz monitor, with V-Sync enabled. I have an over clocked R9 290x, playing the game on a mixture of ultra/high settings with aliasing/post/ambient occlusion all off. This allows me to have FPS of around 80-140, depending on which map I'm playing, server size etc. With V-Sync off I experience screen tearing, it's not hideous but as I've done my gaming for the past few years with it always on I'm finding it rather off putting, but if I turn it on my FPS seems to lock at 60. Not really desirable with a 120hz panel. Is there some way of having V-Sync on and it not locking at 60 FPS? Or some way of having it off and severely reducing the screen tearing? I've read the suggestions above, but they seem to imply that you need to achieve FPS way higher than would be possible in BF4 with a single card. I really want to keep this monitor, I absolutely love everything about it, but at the moment it's feeling like I should return it and wait for a G-Sync panel, as that way I'd be able to maintain the high FPS and have no screen tear.
I assume that's how the technology will work anyway.
I know I'd have to get an NVidia GPU and I wouldn't be benefiting from the strobe backlighting I am at the moment, but I'm finding the screen tear more annoying than I used to the motion blur.


----------



## Soulfire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Connolly*
> 
> I've just received my FG2421 and it appears perfect. No backlight bleed, dead pixels or cross hatching. Maybe I was just lucky, but after speaking with the guys from Eizo UK for several days they said that they have now tested all of the recalled products and all seemed to pass the tests they've put them through. I don't know if people are seeing some unique technology and fancy testing it out, knowing that they can return it under the distance selling regulations - then just jump on the "back light bleed/cross hatching" band wagon when asked the reason for return. The only slight problem that I've been able to detect so far is a small amount of image doubling from white text on a black background, when in 240hz mode. This disappears completely when you switch back to User mode. People worrying about input lag really shouldn't, I can't detect any at all and I'm coming from using a TN gaming panel.
> 
> The only issue I have is purely personal. I'm playing Battlefield 4 pretty much exclusively at the moment and before now have been using a 60hz monitor, with V-Sync enabled. I have an over clocked R9 290x, playing the game on a mixture of ultra/high settings with aliasing/post/ambient occlusion all off. This allows me to have FPS of around 80-140, depending on which map I'm playing, server size etc. With V-Sync off I experience screen tearing, it's not hideous but as I've done my gaming for the past few years with it always on I'm finding it rather off putting, but if I turn it on my FPS seems to lock at 60. Not really desirable with a 120hz panel. Is there some way of having V-Sync on and it not locking at 60 FPS? Or some way of having it off and severely reducing the screen tearing? I've read the suggestions above, but they seem to imply that you need to achieve FPS way higher than would be possible in BF4 with a single card. I really want to keep this monitor, I absolutely love everything about it, but at the moment it's feeling like I should return it and wait for a G-Sync panel, as that way I'd be able to maintain the high FPS and have no screen tear.
> I assume that's how the technology will work anyway.
> I know I'd have to get an NVidia GPU and I wouldn't be benefiting from the strobe backlighting I am at the moment, but I'm finding the screen tear more annoying than I used to the motion blur.


That's good to hear; every positive tale is really helpful, since as above posters have been right to say, the discontent ones are most definitely the loudest.

So even if you tried, you couldn't notice the increased input lag?


----------



## Connolly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soulfire*
> 
> That's good to hear; every positive tale is really helpful, since as above posters have been right to say, the discontent ones are most definitely the loudest.
> 
> So even if you tried, you couldn't notice the increased input lag?


Honestly, not at all. I'm not the worlds greatest FPS player, but I'm not awful either. In BF4 my current KDR is 2.62 and SPM 480. Maybe if you're one of these guys that plays competitive all the time you could notice, but for me as an average player I can't see it at all.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARIKOmagic*
> 
> Are there that many defective monitors posts? It really doesn't seem like that to me.
> The monitor forum sample (that you have seen) may not be representative of the population. And remember that unhappy people scream the loudest


Not to mention it's generally the same people posting on multiple forums multiple times.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> The only thing that sucks about the Eizo is the price, I'll keep my XL2420T until the Eizo's price comes down to Earth.


Actually, I think for what you get compared to other gaming monitors out there the Eizo is quite a bargain.


----------



## MicroMouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> The VA panel used in FG2421 doesn't have sufficient ability to do 3D well, however -- with a very minor firmware modification (eliminate the pre-strobe, and only do 120 strobes per second, and shorten the strobe length of the dominant strobe to flash towards the end), it probably could work a lot better.


Thanks. I will try to mod the 3d glasses first by making my own ir-transmitter.

By experimenting a little I found that I get a really good 3d-experience on the eizo by setting 3d depth to lowest possible and increasing the convergence setting. Tried this with half life 2 and the only artifact I get is a faint yellow glow. Otherwise it's really good. Strange !









Anyone got 3d-vision 2 and the eizo willing to try ? I only have 3d vision 1 and read somewhere that the new glasses may produce less crosstalk. I'm using generic CRT setting.


----------



## Jodiuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> Maybe it's you? I can easily tell the difference, I use lightboost 24/7, I can't even browse the web without it. Firefox has such nice smoothscrolling, combine it with lightboost and it's amazing.


Have you tried this: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/yet-another-smooth-scrolling/

EDIT: Noticed that my GPU sits @ 50% power and def gets a lot warmer w/ the XL2420TE. If I unplug it and just use my old 60hz monitors, my GPU cools way down. Anyone find a way around this?


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> Have you tried this: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/yet-another-smooth-scrolling/
> 
> EDIT: Noticed that my GPU sits @ 50% power and def gets a lot warmer w/ the XL2420TE. If I unplug it and just use my old 60hz monitors, my GPU cools way down. Anyone find a way around this?


Since you're on NV, I'd use nvidia inspector and force 2D clocks.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



For my 290 I just turn everything down on afterburner and increase the idle fanspeed from 25% to 35%, I idle at 40-50C and under load @ 1150Mhz (stock voltage







) only get to 75C on the core at the "unbearably loud" 55% fanspeed.


----------



## Jodiuh

Interesting. I'll try that. It's only an extra 60 watts according to my UPS, but it's annoying.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> Interesting. I'll try that. It's only an extra 60 watts according to my UPS, but it's annoying.


Are you talking about the EIZO FG2421?
34 watts at maximum brightness (regardless of Turbo240), according to my Kill-A-Watt.


----------



## Jodiuh

The system wo/ the monitor is 60 watts higher @ idle when using the BenQ. But the GPU is def toasty and I can feel hot air coming from my case as opposed to cool air when using a 60hz panel. GPU power went from 15 to 50%.


----------



## Hefner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> The system wo/ the monitor is 60 watts higher @ idle when using the BenQ. But the GPU is def toasty and I can feel hot air coming from my case as opposed to cool air when using a 60hz panel. GPU power went from 15 to 50%.


Well your GPU is calculating 120 frames instead of 60 now so that could explain it. Or am I misunderstanding?


----------



## Jodiuh

I couldn't check if it was because of the monitor or the refresh rate cause the TE doesn't go down to 60, only 120. You're probably right, but it's still potatoes!


----------



## Hefner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> I couldn't check if it was because of the monitor or the refresh rate cause the TE doesn't go down to 60, only 120. You're probably right, but it's still potatoes!


Set it back to 60hz in windows or catalyst and check temps. This way you'll know for sure.

Just use 60hz mode while doing regular browsing and such if it bothers you or if you don't mind the heat (it will surely not affect your GPU's lifetime) just adjust your fan profiles and set it so the fans will wait a bit longer till they start ramping up.

Or invest in a better cooling solution...


----------



## Jodiuh

I looked, but 60hz was not an option. Only 120 and 144.


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> That's still going to benefit well from LightBoost.
> I also agree it is useful to set fps_max to values that aren't harmonics of the refresh rate. On very fast GPU's, fps_max (119,120,121) and (239,240,241) are pretty bad because those leads to stationary or slow-moving tearline effects.


Hmmm...that's interesting. I have noticed that tearing with the FPS cap @ 100 (100Hz LB) is a little "slow". It seems like it lingers on the screen for a fraction of a second longer than just normal tearing (no FPS cap, ~150FPS @ 100Hz LB).

Am I correct in understanding that setting the FPS cap to 102 (2 FPS over Hz) will make the tears "leave faster"? My memory of harmonics is pretty weak from Physics, lol. I remember they dealt with fractions, but I don't know how that applies here.

Regarding V-SYNC, personal preference seems to be the key player. I'm like Z Overlord; once I turned V-SYNC off, my aim got dramatically better. The mouse just seemed more responsive to my hand.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikjadoon*
> 
> Am I correct in understanding that setting the FPS cap to 102 (2 FPS over Hz) will make the tears "leave faster"? My memory of harmonics is pretty weak from Physics, lol. I remember they dealt with fractions, but I don't know how that applies here.


Tearlines technically do not "leave faster" per se, they just simply reappear in the same place of the old tearline. When this happens, tearlines that continually reappears in the same location in each frame, will become more easily noticed. Harmonics between framerate versus refreshrate, means that the tearline is more likely to reappear in the next frame in the same position as the previous frame.

At 120fps, the tearline will occur roughly in the same place as previous frame, and if your GPU is running maxed-out (without any variable framerate), the tearline will linger in the same position and/or move upwards/downwards slowly depending on how exactly matched the framerate versus Hz is.

(etc)
At 117fps, the next tearline in the next frame, is likely approx ~2/120th screenheight upwards
At 118fps, the next tearline in the next frame, is likely approx ~2/120th screenheight upwards
At 119fps, the next tearline in the next frame, is likely approx ~1/120th screenheight upwards
At 120fps, the next tearline in the next frame, is likely approx same position as previous frame.
At 121fps, the next tearline in the next frame, is likely approx ~1/120th screenheight downwards
At 122fps, the next tearline in the next frame, is likely approx ~2/120th screenheight downwards
At 123fps, the next tearline in the next frame, is likely approx ~3/120th screenheight downwards
(etc)

Rows of pixels (scanlines) are sequentially output, one row after another, one at a time, transmitted from GPU to the monitor, over the video cable. Those who understand the way data is transmitted from a GPU to a monitor (and how a display is scanned), the number of scanlines output to a display per second is constant (that's called the "horizontal scanrate"). If a frame is 1080 scanlines (the vertical resolution), and blanking interval is 45, then you're transmitting 1125 scanlines per refresh cycle, or 135,000 scanlines per second (135KHz Horizontal Scan Rate) when running at 120Hz refresh rate (also known as the Vertical Scan Rate). This means, 1 row of pixels = 1/135,000th of a second at 120Hz, assuming a Vertical Total of 1125 (1080 visible + 45 blanking). The old analog scanning terminology still applies to DP, DVI, HDMI, on modern displays. Each frame is scanned top-to-bottom once per refresh cycle (



), with a small pause between refreshes (the blanking interval, otherwise famously known as "Vertical Synchronization Interval" -- which is where the more widely-known term "VSYNC" comes from). People who tweak PowerStrip or ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility will recognize some of these terminology.

Now, if you do a mid-frame change, the transmission between GPU and monitor, begins transmitting the new frame wherever the display is currently being scanned at, in its current top-to-bottom scanning pass (splicing a new frame to output == tearline), once every 1/121sec, you'll be splicing a new frame every (135,000 / 121) = 1115 scanlines. So at 121fps, you'll get a tearline moving upwards an average of 10 pixels in the next frame relative to previous frame (1115 - 1125 ) = -10. If you're running at say, 118fps, you'll be splicing a new frame every (135,000 / 118) = 1144 scanlines. So at 118fps, you'll get a tearline moving downwards an average of 19 pixels in the next frame relative to previous frame (1149 - 1125) = 19. If It falls off the edge of the screen, it comes back at the opposite edge of the screen once it's passed through the blanking interval scanlines.

Now, fluctuating video game frame rates, throws a monkey wrench into all of this. And fluctuating CPU times. At 121fps, you might get a frame delivered slightly early and sometimes later. (AKA "frame pacing" may not be perfect). So during fps_max 120fps, the tearline might appear to vibrate upwards/downwards chaotically because of the variable rendertimes. Generally, the faster the computer and GPU, the more accurate the game engine frame pacing, the more stationary the tearline becomes during these "fps_max harmonics".

Thusly, it's always a good idea to use fps_max numbers that are far away from harmonics. The use of fps_max 143 or fps_max 277 can often look better than using fps_max 120 or fps_max 240 especially if you have a uber-powerful computer/graphics card, and you love VSYNC OFF but want to minimize tearing, or ugly stationary/vibrating/slowly moving tearlines that persistently linger in the same places on-screen.

The benefits of using massive excess framerate beyond refresh rate (e.g. >200fps and >300fps) is advantageous for some, due to the lower input latencies as well as the way it further diminishes the appearance of tearing (This is because larger number of smaller-offset tearlines are often better-looking than smaller number of large-offset tearlines).

Hope I haven't made your head spin.


----------



## MicroMouse

@ Mr. Rejhon

Very interesting... Is it possible to increase the vertical blanking period so the horizontal scanrate goes up ? If so, what impact will this have on a LCD and how much can it handle. Will it draw the frames faster ? Been using this on old CGA monitors where things are more straight forward.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroMouse*
> 
> @ Mr. Rejhon
> Very interesting... Is it possible to increase the vertical blanking period so the horizontal scanrate goes up ?


People have been doing this with PowerStrip for more than a decade, and ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility also does it, as does NVIDIA Control Panel. But why? It doesn't help. Since it's only 45 scan lines out of 1125, it will only hide the tearline 5 percent of the time. It's only useful for helping a display work, as sometimes some displays require slightly bigger or smaller blanking intervals to work best. (e.g. display overclocking, or trying to trigger LightBoost to work -- LightBoost requires a Vertical Total of 1147 or bigger).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroMouse*
> 
> what impact will this have on a LCD and how much can it handle. Will it draw the frames faster ?


No, it slows down the refresh cycle if you increase the blanking interval, unless you increase the dotclock to compensate (and maintain vertical refresh rate).

Increasing the blanking interval is useless for eliminating tearing, and it wastefully eats into bandwidth that you could instead use for extra refresh rate (e.g. getting 144Hz instead of 120Hz, for example). In current monitors, 144Hz actually requires reduced blanking intervals, compared to 120Hz.

Technically, today, we no longer really need much of a blanking interval at all. They needed to be big only for the early CRT's back in the analog days, when it took a long time for the electron gun to go back to the top of the screen.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> The system wo/ the monitor is 60 watts higher @ idle when using the BenQ. But the GPU is def toasty and I can feel hot air coming from my case as opposed to cool air when using a 60hz panel. GPU power went from 15 to 50%.


Nvidia inspector>>rightclick on overclock button>> select Mulit-display power saver: It will force 2d clocks, shouldn't see any side effect besides 324mhz ( or w/e your gpu's lowest speeds are) Seems easier than switching the refresh rate. You have a few options once it's open. A.) You can set it to open on startup B.) you can add all your game file .exe's to it so you never have to close it C.) close it for 3d, and re-open for 2d. I find option B to be the easiest.


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Nvidia inspector>>rightclick on overclock button>> select Mulit-display power saver: It will force 2d clocks, shouldn't see any side effect besides 324mhz ( or w/e your gpu's lowest speeds are) Seems easier than switching the refresh rate. You have a few options once it's open. A.) You can set it to open on startup B.) you can add all your game file .exe's to it so you never have to close it C.) close it for 3d, and re-open for 2d. I find option B to be the easiest.


And anyone must use secondary software like Nvidia Inspector to set 2D mode in GPU with 120Hz monitor ?


----------



## jeri

so whats the best setting for max fps now with 120hz+lb? with 120fps capping/not capping? vsync on = more inputlag, i get it. but for single player i dont need that 0.5 better input lag rly, i prefer to enjoy the picture with best settings possible and less tearing or almost none.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Anyone know a legitimate site to order a korean monitor in Canada? I didn't want to do it through ebay but I found this

http://www.overclockmonitor.com/qnix-qx2710-led-evolution-2-oc-m-pf.html

Is this legitimate?


----------



## jeri

try here... i gues. but why qnix? there is a lot better displays out there at the moment..


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeri*
> 
> try here... i gues. but why qnix? there is a lot better displays out there at the moment..


Like what?

The two 27" 120hz monitors that are out (asus and benq) both have ghosting issues. So running LB is pointless. I could buy a 24" but then im spending 300+ dollars on a 24" 1080p 144hz monitor when I have a 22" 120hz 1050p monitor. Its barely an upgrade.

Out of all the 27 Koreans, the Qnix from what I have seen, has the best reviews. Best panel and it OC's easy. Even I feel weary of Overclocking, getting a 60hz 1440p 27" PLS panel for 300$ is a great deal. I just want to be sure that the seller is safe.


----------



## jeri

hmm the ghosting is rly so bad with 120hz lb on the benq/aus 27° ? well you can always go for the eyefinity setup 3x 24 benqs/asus.


----------



## georaldc

Anyone with a vg248qe get this kind of color degradation when running lightboost?

Without LB (I'm guessing the dithering is normal):


With LB:


Notice the dots? I think I posted about this on the vg248qe thread the other week but don't remember getting any responses. Could there be something wrong with the monitor or DVI cable that came with it, or is this just a side effect of running lightboost with this monitor?


----------



## Arc0s

Just remember getting 120hz out of the Qnix is not garanteed, I had one and it was only stable at 104hz anything above that gave me horrible artifacts on the screen; I even tried one of those thick dual link dvi cables and the results were the same.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeri*
> 
> hmm the ghosting is rly so bad with 120hz lb on the benq/aus 27° ? well you can always go for the eyefinity setup 3x 24 benqs/asus.


Let me just pull a grand out of my tush...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> Just remember getting 120hz out of the Qnix is not garanteed, I had one and it was only stable at 104hz anything above that gave me horrible artifacts on the screen; I even tried one of those thick dual link dvi cables and the results were the same.


Yep. I completely understand. The monitor I've been wanting to get if I didnt go for a 120hz screen was the Samsung 850d which is a 60hz 2560x1440p screen but it costs 800$. So after tossing the idea back and forth to my self, I decided to go the Korean route. I just want to know which seller to buy off in Canada.


----------



## jeri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *georaldc*
> 
> Anyone with a vg248qe get this kind of color degradation when running lightboost?
> 
> Without LB (I'm guessing the dithering is normal):
> 
> 
> With LB:
> 
> 
> Notice the dots? I think I posted about this on the vg248qe thread the other week but don't remember getting any responses. Could there be something wrong with the monitor or DVI cable that came with it, or is this just a side effect of running lightboost with this monitor?


check the dvi cabel endings, reentry both. i had something like this just randomly popped up at the desktop, after running lb for few days..... got scared, but just recheckt the cabel and all was good


----------



## jeri

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> Let me just pull a grand out of my tush...
> Yep. I completely understand. The monitor I've been wanting to get if I didnt go for a 120hz screen was the Samsung 850d which is a 60hz 2560x1440p screen but it costs 800$. So after tossing the idea back and forth to my self, I decided to go the Korean route. I just want to know which seller to buy off in Canada.


yeah well, if you find cant a good qnix, just get the 24° asus or the benq and sell the older one. For me personaly a display is getting to big from that moment, when i start moving my head around to see or read proper/comfortable the screen.


----------



## georaldc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeri*
> 
> check the dvi cabel endings, reentry both. i had something like this just randomly popped up at the desktop, after running lb for few days..... got scared, but just recheckt the cabel and all was good


Am I supposed to be looking for something specific becase the cables look fine to me (only oddity I noticed is pin 14 being lower than the rest but after a quick google search, that seems to be normal). I'll probably try to borrow another DVI cable to test, or maybe a displayport cable to see if that makes a difference


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeri*
> 
> yeah well, if you find cant a good qnix, just get the 24° asus or the benq and sell the older one. For me personaly a display is getting to big from that moment, when i start moving my head around to see or read proper/comfortable the screen.


Nah I'm keeping my Samsung 2233RZ. I'm building an office space atm so I plan on putting my 2233RZ in that space and using a new monitor in my bedroom for my CAD and Gaming. After trying out the BenQ XL2720T, there is no way I can go smaller. 27" was awesome, even at 1080p which most people complain about.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *georaldc*
> 
> Anyone with a vg248qe get this kind of color degradation when running lightboost?
> 
> Without LB (I'm guessing the dithering is normal):
> 
> 
> With LB:
> 
> 
> Notice the dots? I think I posted about this on the vg248qe thread the other week but don't remember getting any responses. Could there be something wrong with the monitor or DVI cable that came with it, or is this just a side effect of running lightboost with this monitor?


What you may be experiencing could possibly be pixel inversion or screen door effect of Lightboost. Happens especially bad when you move your eyes. Some Lightboost monitors do it pretty bad, like the XL2720T and to a lesser extent the 24 inch'ers. One of the reasons I moved away from Lightboost and over to the Eizo. Very distracting for me.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

^ Yup, another reason why I decided to drop out of the Lightboost race. I'd notice it a lot in Guacamelee. All the colourful textures would go textured like that with the xl2720t


----------



## Z Overlord

hey Vega I got a request about the Eizo

Could you play TF2 with V Sync OFF and Turbo240 on, and TF2 set to fps_max 132? Do you see screen tearing? Do you also wanna test other values above 120 and see if you can get screen tearing?

The Blur Busters UFO poster claimed he can see screen tearing in Source games below fps_max 200 on a strobe light monitors such as the Eizo with Turbo240 on. But it seems not everyone might notice? IDK I wish I could test this in person.


----------



## gopala33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> Like what?
> 
> The two 27" 120hz monitors that are out (asus and benq) both have ghosting issues. So running LB is pointless. I could buy a 24" but then im spending 300+ dollars on a 24" 1080p 144hz monitor when I have a 22" 120hz 1050p monitor. Its barely an upgrade.
> 
> Out of all the 27 Koreans, the Qnix from what I have seen, has the best reviews. Best panel and it OC's easy. Even I feel weary of Overclocking, getting a 60hz 1440p 27" PLS panel for 300$ is a great deal. I just want to be sure that the seller is safe.


daam 27" 120hz monitors both (asus and benq) both have ghosting issues daam

i wanted 27" monitor gaming without ghosting issues
please help what monitor choose i dont want a lot ghosting trouble


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gopala33*
> 
> daam 27" 120hz monitors both (asus and benq) both have ghosting issues daam
> 
> i wanted 27" monitor gaming without ghosting issues
> please help what monitor choose i dont want a lot ghosting trouble


Well, I should say that I haven't tried the Asus. But according to what I've read, they use the same panel. The ghosting is only visible with lightboost on, but without light boost, there is motion blur anyways. The 24, 144hz displays dont have the ghosting but I didn't want to buy a 24" monitor. I just ordered a Korean 27" 1440p monitor so I can let you know how that goes when it does arrive.


----------



## gopala33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> Well, I should say that I haven't tried the Asus. But according to what I've read, they use the same panel. The ghosting is only visible with lightboost on, but without light boost, there is motion blur anyways. The 24, 144hz displays dont have the ghosting but I didn't want to buy a 24" monitor. I just ordered a Korean 27" 1440p monitor so I can let you know how that goes when it does arrive.


i dont like 24inch i wanted big screen 27inch i love it
now i using 17inch crt monitor very old
i plan buy NEW PC GAMING GTX SLI HIGH END 100% gaming
i want 144hz displays dont have the ghosting for 27inch


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gopala33*
> 
> i dont like 24inch i wanted big screen 27inch i love it
> now i using 17inch crt monitor very old
> i plan buy NEW PC GAMING GTX SLI HIGH END 100% gaming
> i want 144hz displays dont have the ghosting for 27inch


That's why I was really curious about the XL2720Z, because it's a 144hz 27" display with some built in strobing features. The OP of this thread already has one but told me it again uses the same panel as before.


----------



## latexyankee

Anyone tried the latest nvidia beta drivers with lightboost surround?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> The Blur Busters UFO poster claimed he can see screen tearing in Source games below fps_max 200 on a strobe light monitors such as the Eizo with Turbo240 on. But it seems not everyone might notice? IDK I wish I could test this in person.


That's me.

It doesn't matter which monitor -- LightBoost, Turbo240, old-fashioned CRT, plasma, etc -- I can immediately notice tearing at >200fps on all flicker display technologies. I generally play VSYNC ON for this reason (especially solo), except when I need uber-competitiveness. Adaptive VSYNC is another compromise. It solves tearing while also improving the zero-motion-blur effect (makes games look as smooth as TestUFO).

Mark Rejhon
Chief Blur Buster


----------



## aufkrawall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> hey Vega I got a request about the Eizo
> 
> Could you play TF2 with V Sync OFF and Turbo240 on, and TF2 set to fps_max 132? Do you see screen tearing? Do you also wanna test other values above 120 and see if you can get screen tearing?
> 
> The Blur Busters UFO poster claimed he can see screen tearing in Source games below fps_max 200 on a strobe light monitors such as the Eizo with Turbo240 on. But it seems not everyone might notice? IDK I wish I could test this in person.


Don't play Tem Fortress 2 with the Eizo, it fail will miserably at places like this:


Everything gets "green" in motion, thanks to bad MVA response times.


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aufkrawall*
> 
> Don't play Tem Fortress 2 with the Eizo, it fail will miserably at places like this




Sorry, I couldn't resist.







But in seriousness, is that with Turbo 240 enabled or disabled?


----------



## aufkrawall

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> But in seriousness, is that with Turbo 240 enabled or disabled?


With Turbo enabled it's even worse.
In Motion, the grid literally turns totally green. This is not trolling or overexaggerated. It's disgusting, it breaks immersion for me.

Edit: Ah, I now got what wrong did I in previous post.


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Tearlines technically do not "leave faster" per se, they just simply reappear in the same place of the old tearline. When this happens, tearlines that continually reappears in the same location in each frame, will become more easily noticed. Harmonics between framerate versus refreshrate, means that the tearline is more likely to reappear in the next frame in the same position as the previous frame.
> 
> At 120fps, the tearline will occur roughly in the same place as previous frame, and if your GPU is running maxed-out (without any variable framerate), the tearline will linger in the same position and/or move upwards/downwards slowly depending on how exactly matched the framerate versus Hz is.


Whew, that was super informative. OK, I've switched mine to 115 (100Hz LB). Still high enough to make a difference in tearing, but hopefully remove the stationary tears, too!

TBH, my head was spinning the first time I read it, but after the 2nd and 3rd times, lol, it made sense! ;D


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aufkrawall*
> 
> With Turbo enabled it's even worse.
> In Motion, the grid literally turns totally green. This is not trolling or overexaggerated. It's disgusting, it breaks immersion for me.


Yes I see that a lot on VA panels. Dark colours against lighter ones (slow transitions that can't be properly accelerated no matter what) can cause the darker colours to break up into dark red or green. It's not attractive. I still haven't used/seen this monitor for myself thanks to EIZO's poor PR work here in the UK though.


----------



## Connolly

I said earlier in this thread that the Eizo FG2421 seemed like the perfect monitor, but I've just discovered it's first major flaw. When I jumped in a scout heli in battlefield 4, the greys at the edge of the cockpit created horizontal light bars that ran across the screen. I tried switching to a DVI cable to see if there was a problem there, the issue remained. The bars were also present in a transports heli, but strangely weren't apparent in an attack heli. I assume that the panel has a problem with a certain type of grey, but that's total speculation. Has anyone else noticed this happening at all? Or can anyone else test it in BF4 and let me know? I'll upload some pictures of it tomorrow.


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Connolly*
> 
> I said earlier in this thread that this seemed like the perfect monitor, but I've just discovered it's first major flaw. When I jumped in a scout heli in battlefield 4, the greys at the edge of the cockpit created horizontal light bars that ran across the screen. I tried switching to a DVI cable to see if there was a problem there, the issue remained. The bars were also present in a transports heli, but strangely weren't apparent in an attack heli. I assume that the panel has a problem with a certain type of grey, but that's total speculation. Has anyone else noticed this happening at all? Or can anyone else test it in BF4 and let me know? Here are the images, taken in windowed mode but the issues remained in full screen too.
> 
> Notice the light bars at the bottom left, around the cockpit:
> 
> 
> And this is the attack heli, no apparent issues:


You would need to take a picture with a camera. You've just taken screenshots which bypasses the monitor entirely. That's just based on what your GPU is outputting, not the monitor.


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> You would need to take a picture with a camera. You've just taken screenshots which bypasses the monitor entirely. That's just based on what your GPU is outputting, not the monitor.


lol, I was like what is this guy talking about "light bars"? Not to make fun of you Connolley, but you may want to revise your process for demonstrating monitor issues.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

I thought he was talking about the banding. Where you can see in the upper portion of the picture, there are blue bands and grey/green bands. Looks like it's just the game though.

As stated, take a photo.


----------



## Xinoxide

NM. I can read i promise.


----------



## Connolly

Laugh Out Loud @ me







I had so much to drink last night I think I may have left my brain in the bottom of a bottle - how on earth did I ever think a screen shot would capture that. I'll take some pics tomorrow, it's apparent I need sleep rather badly.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aufkrawall*
> 
> Don't play Tem Fortress 2 with the Eizo, it fail will miserably at places like this:
> 
> 
> Everything gets "green" in motion, thanks to bad MVA response times.


I guess it wasn't meant to be Eizo, but seeing progress in this field is definitely good though

Also UFO guy: it would be good to disable motion blur in source games like TF2 right? What about color correction? Does that cause input lag?


----------



## ToastyX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Connolly*
> 
> Laugh Out Loud @ me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had so much to drink last night I think I may have left my brain in the bottom of a bottle - how on earth did I ever think a screen shot would capture that. I'll take some pics tomorrow, it's apparent I need sleep rather badly.


The screen shot did capture it, which means it's not the monitor. It's probably just the game.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> Also UFO guy: it would be good to disable motion blur in source games like TF2 right? What about color correction? Does that cause input lag?


Yep, turning off the GPU motion blur effects in games is what I always do.

GPU-based motion blur is perfectly fine as a special effect, but I dislike having it enabled at all times. Some people like it, but I dislike extra motion blur above-and-beyond human limitations.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Connolly*
> 
> I said earlier in this thread that the Eizo FG2421 seemed like the perfect monitor, but I've just discovered it's first major flaw. When I jumped in a scout heli in battlefield 4, the greys at the edge of the cockpit created horizontal light bars that ran across the screen. I tried switching to a DVI cable to see if there was a problem there, the issue remained. The bars were also present in a transports heli, but strangely weren't apparent in an attack heli. I assume that the panel has a problem with a certain type of grey, but that's total speculation. Has anyone else noticed this happening at all? Or can anyone else test it in BF4 and let me know? I'll upload some pictures of it tomorrow.


It gets a lot better when you let the FG2421 warm up for half an hour.

Yes, it's in the dark grays that the grey non-uniformities appears on many VA panels (including the FG2421), especially along the edges of the screen. It looks like backlight bleed, but is actually panel non-uniformities with dark grey shades (not blacks and brights). It is a trait of VA panels, but isn't obscene -- among the 120Hz monitors that I have compared in person, I prefer the look of the Eizo over LightBoost.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *georaldc*
> 
> Notice the dots? I think I posted about this on the vg248qe thread the other week but don't remember getting any responses. Could there be something wrong with the monitor or DVI cable that came with it, or is this just a side effect of running lightboost with this monitor?


This is normal for LightBoost, because it uses accelerated LCD scanning during LightBoost (refreshing the panel in ~1/200sec) to allow a large blanking interval between refreshes. This is to allow the LCD pixels to finish transitions, before the backlight gets strobed.

(Information from LightBoost reverse engineering).


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> Anyone know a legitimate site to order a korean monitor in Canada?


Amazon, with a Squaretrade warranty. Easy returns and easier warranty than otherwise.


----------



## ZeGermanB

The *visual superiority* of CRT's in terms of motion blur is really stunning, lol.


----------



## Connolly

Definitely just the game, I plugged my old LCD monitor back in and the same issues were present. My first opinion stands - the Eizo FG2421 is incredible. One thing that I have noticed, with Turbo 240 enabled some white text on a black background, most noticeably the friends list in the coms centre of the Battlefield 4 launch browser, seems to have a ghost of itself just below the real text. Is this a normal trait for strobe back lighting?


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZeGermanB*
> 
> The *visual superiority* of CRT's in terms of motion blur is really stunning, lol.


Eh? The motion clarity of the CRT doesn't look that much better than the Lightboost or Eizo "Turbo On". One thing I've noticed is that the Eizo's picture quality is much closer to the CRT than the other three.


----------



## HellionGR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *latexyankee*
> 
> Anyone tried the latest nvidia beta drivers with lightboost surround?


If you mean the 331.93 yeah me and still NO GO.
Also NO GO for surround recording with new Geforce 1.8 Experience (so much for higher resolution recording ability)


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Connolly*
> 
> Definitely just the game, I plugged my old LCD monitor back in and the same issues were present. My first opinion stands - the Eizo FG2421 is incredible. One thing that I have noticed, with Turbo 240 enabled some white text on a black background, most noticeably the friends list in the coms centre of the Battlefield 4 launch browser, seems to have a ghost of itself just below the real text. Is this a normal trait for strobe back lighting?


Yes, this is normal on most strobe-backlight displays. This is the "strobe crosstalk effect" (incomplete refreshes leaking between refreshes) -- similiar to 3D crosstalk (leakage between eyes) -- creating faint sharp ghosts.

-- VG248QE, XL2411T, and XL2420TE has almost none of those ghosts, but the image quality is worse.
-- FG2421 has more of these ghosts, but if you let the monitor warm up for 30 minutes, the ghosts become much fainter.
-- VG278H isn't too bad at lower contrast settings, but worse at higher contrast settings.
-- VG278HE is a bit worse than VG278H in the strobe crosstalk effect.

You can reduce some of this strobe crosstalk effect by somewhat reducing your contrast ratio.

Blur Busters has been trying to find a name for this phenomenon, I'm going to now call it the "*strobe crosstalk*" effect, in homage to the "3D crosstalk" effect, because the scientific reasons of this effect is rather similar (incomplete refresh leakage between refreshes).


----------



## latexyankee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HellionGR*
> 
> If you mean the 331.93 yeah me and still NO GO.
> Also NO GO for surround recording with new Geforce 1.8 Experience (so much for higher resolution recording ability)


Think Im going to a 1440p Overlord then. At least I'll have great quality and colors with the same amount of blur at 120hz.

I'm not sure this will ever be resolved.

Edit-actually most likely radeon


----------



## Rickles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *latexyankee*
> 
> Think Im going to a 1440p Overlord then. At least I'll have great quality and colors with the same amount of blur at 120hz.
> 
> I'm not sure this will ever be resolved.
> 
> Edit-actually most likely radeon


... but the 1440p overlord won't have the same amount of blur... unless I have you mistaken

also got my 2420TE today, any good profiles that I should copy, or should I just make my own?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Amazon, with a Squaretrade warranty. Easy returns and easier warranty than otherwise.


Thanks, but they don't have it on Amazon. CA. Unless you can order on the American version through a Canadian account. I've tried that before but Amazon was giving me issues with importing electronics. So I just ordered it through Ebay.


----------



## latexyankee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rickles*
> 
> ... but the 1440p overlord won't have the same amount of blur... unless I have you mistaken
> 
> also got my 2420TE today, any good profiles that I should copy, or should I just make my own?


I meant without lightboost at 120hz the IPS blur shouldn't be more noticeable than the TN crap now. I've never tried a 1440p overclocked but I hear its much the same blur wise. I really think I'm going to go this route since light boost is out. I need something to drive my titans after all.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *latexyankee*
> 
> *I meant without lightboost at 120hz the IPS blur shouldn't be more noticeable than the TN crap now.* I've never tried a 1440p overclocked but I hear its much the same blur wise. I really think I'm going to go this route since light boost is out. I need something to drive my titans after all.


It shouldn't. That's why I returned my 27" benq. With Lightboost, it would ghost... defeating the pupose because it basically created motion blur. So if Im gonna end up with motion blur on a 27" panel, I mine as well get an IPS/PLS 1440p panel.


----------



## kevindd992002

What's the difference between in-game motion blur and motion blur in monitors? Why is there even a setting in games to enable it when are target is to eliminate blur completely?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> What's the difference between in-game motion blur and motion blur in monitors? Why is there even a setting in games to enable it when are target is to eliminate blur completely?


Because motion blur is an effect in real life. It's just the excess motion blur that a monitor can create. In some games, I like the motion blur feature. It looks cool, but you're right. The monitor already produces it. I guess it's just a matter of opinion.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> Because motion blur is an effect in real life. It's just the excess motion blur that a monitor can create. In some games, I like the motion blur feature. It looks cool, but you're right. The monitor already produces it. I guess it's just a matter of opinion.


Oh ok. But usually motion blur in-game is disabled when using LB with our monitors, right?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Oh ok. But usually motion blur in-game is disabled when using LB with our monitors, right?


The game doesn't know. It's up to you, but I think most people who want light boost would want to disable any in-game motion blur. Again, this is just my opinion


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> The game doesn't know. It's up to you, but I think most people who want light boost would want to disable any in-game motion blur. Again, this is just my opinion


Yup I know that it's a user setting. But basically those two blurs have the same effect to the human eye?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Yup I know that it's a user setting. But basically those two blurs have the same effect to the human eye?


I think so. I used to use it in BF3 a lot, even at 120hz. It's a faux motion blur but I guess it's the same. I wonder if anyone has done some serious testing.


----------



## Rickles

is it normal for anti virus to pick up when you toggle lightboost on and off?

using the toastyx app with the links from blur busters


----------



## Jack Mac

Doesn't seem normal, what AV do you use? I haven't had any issues w/ ToastyX strobelight though and I've spent lots of money on Amazon and entered CC info w/ ToastyX on my PC. Trust me, you're good.


----------



## Rickles

I use AVG, it just flagged and logged under Identity protection... I since scanned the zip folder and the unzipped then reinstalled... hasn't happened again and i can use the strobe to its full effects so meh.. who knows..


----------



## ZeGermanB

Upload the file in question to *VirusTotal* & run a scan.

Guess it was just a false alarm of a too sensitive adjusted internet security software.


----------



## gopala33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Yes, this is normal on most strobe-backlight displays. This is the "strobe crosstalk effect" (incomplete refreshes leaking between refreshes) -- similiar to 3D crosstalk (leakage between eyes) -- creating faint sharp ghosts.
> 
> -- VG248QE, XL2411T, and XL2420TE has almost none of those ghosts, but the image quality is worse.
> -- FG2421 has more of these ghosts, but if you let the monitor warm up for 30 minutes, the ghosts become much fainter.
> -- VG278H isn't too bad at lower contrast settings, but worse at higher contrast settings.
> -- VG278HE is a bit worse than VG278H in the strobe crosstalk effect.
> 
> You can reduce some of this strobe crosstalk effect by somewhat reducing your contrast ratio.
> 
> Blur Busters has been trying to find a name for this phenomenon, I'm going to now call it the "*strobe crosstalk*" effect, in homage to the "3D crosstalk" effect, because the scientific reasons of this effect is rather similar (incomplete refresh leakage between refreshes).


-- VG278H isn't too bad at lower contrast settings, but worse at higher contrast settings.
-- VG278HE is a bit worse than VG278H in the strobe crosstalk effect.

daam always 27inch monitor bad daam

24inch monitor VG248QE, XL2411T, and XL2420TE has almost none of those ghosts always good because none ghosts

but the image quality is worse. why ??
bad color right


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gopala33*
> 
> -- VG278H isn't too bad at lower contrast settings, but worse at higher contrast settings.
> -- VG278HE is a bit worse than VG278H in the strobe crosstalk effect.
> 
> daam always 27inch monitor bad daam
> 
> 24inch monitor VG248QE, XL2411T, and XL2420TE has almost none of those ghosts always good because none ghosts
> 
> but the image quality is worse. why ??
> bad color right


However, the good news is that on the newer 27", the strobe crosstalk effect is not noticed in most regular gaming.
Are you greatly bothered by the strobe crosstalk effect? It's usually only as faint as 3D crosstalk.


----------



## lllFATAL1TY

hello guys

i will buy a new monitor for play BF4

which a have chose?

*VG248QE* or *XL2420T Rev 1.0* (in my country Rev. 2.0 is not available) ???

now, and between the VG248QE x XL2420T Rev. 1.0 x XL2420TE ?

*i will use Lightboost while playing, of course









Thanks


----------



## Rickles

I think we should start calling it loveboost instead of lightboost.


----------



## CallsignVega

DP 1.3 announced. Can we say 4K 120hz strobing displays?


----------



## ZeGermanB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Eh? The motion clarity of the CRT doesn't look that much better than the Lightboost or Eizo "Turbo On". One thing I've noticed is that the Eizo's picture quality is much closer to the CRT than the other three.


*What?* You must have something with your eyes, because to me the picture of the CRT looks way better. Just look at the objects in the front, much sharper textures & nearly zero motion blur. Both clearly worse on all other TFT screens.









However I have to agree. The Eizo really looks the most CRT-like & I don't think it's worth to opt. for the LightBoost LCD's just for a tiny bit better motion clarity.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lllFATAL1TY*
> 
> hello guys
> 
> i will buy a new monitor for play BF4
> 
> which a have chose?
> 
> *VG248QE* or *XL2420T Rev 1.0* (in my country Rev. 2.0 is not available) ???
> 
> now, and between the VG248QE x XL2420T Rev. 1.0 x XL2420TE ?
> 
> *i will use Lightboost while playing, of course
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks


Someone just don't compare the *VG248QE* to the *XL2420T*. It's a complete different price class. The XL2420T is way more expensive, with features you most likely don't need.

*VG248QE* vs. *XL2411T* is a fair fight. Only minor differences (crosshair overlay vs. black equalizer). But the VG248QE is the only screen that can later, for around 120 bucks, be upgraded to an LightBoost 2.0 screen. So keep that in mind.









_Btw. both BenQ's produced after 07/2012 (I guess?) got the new revision panels. So I call BS that your country only got Rev 1.0 screens. ^^_


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZeGermanB*
> 
> *What?* You must have something with your eyes, because to me the picture of the CRT looks way better. Just look at the objects in the front, much sharper textures & nearly zero motion blur.


*FACT CHECK TIME.*

CRT's vary in quality and speed. Let's take the famous Sony FW900 CRT as an example. It is well known to be slightly slower than the average CRT because of the medium-persistence phosphor. There are several people who saw that LightBoost (10% setting) has less motion blur than a Sony FW900 CRT, seen in several LightBoost testimonials.

LightBoost=10% has noticeably sharper textures, during fast turning motion, than the slowest CRT's (e.g. Sony FW900). There's more ghosting and more motion blur on a Sony FW900 CRT than a LightBoost=10% display.

Have you ever seen LightBoost 10% vs 50% vs 100%?



Yes, LightBoost=10% is dark for many people, but not on all monitors. There is a electronics modder that managed to do a hardware modification to brighten LightBoost=10% (normally very dark), greatly improving his color quality. His modified LightBoost=10% is MUCH brighter than an average used Sony FW900, so brightness is no longer a problem for him. Also, while FG2421 is only as clear as LightBoost-70%, next-generation strobe backlights such as Eizo's FG2421 is actually competitively bright too. It shows that all you need is brighter LED's in strobe backlights, to allow the shorter flashes, to easily beat CRT's in motion clarity. As long as your strobe backlight flashes briefer than the phosphor illuminate-and-decay cycle, you have less motion blur than the CRT using said phosphor. There is no technical restriction limiting future strobe backlights from strobing more briefly, in order to have less motion blur than CRT, and it's already partially here in the form of the LightBoost=10% tweak (albiet currently with the darkness compromise on most models).

-- Yes, it doesn't beat the fastest CRT's, but LightBoost=10% is faster and lower persistence than several slower (higher-persistence) CRT's. The phosphor decay of a Sony FW900 is longer than the strobe flash length of LightBoost=10%, and as a result, motion clarity at LightBoost=10% is much sharper and clearer during fast panning motion (e.g. www.testufo.com/photo ) than the slower CRT's.
-- Yes, CRT can have better color quality and better black levels (if you're lucky to still have a mint-condition CRT, now greatly declining in numbers) -- although most CRT's are old, most CRT's are used. Many of them can't do perfect black any more. Several are out of focus. The contrast ratio can become less than LCD when the glass tube vaccuum is imperfect or the flyback transformer is failing. The color quality of LightBoost (on the better monitors) can look much better than a old worn-out CRT too.
-- Yes, CRT's still have less input lag.
-- Yes, there's the strobe crosstalk effect (faint trailing razor-sharp ghost) to consider; worse on VG278HE and FG2421, but a nonissue with VG248QE / XL2411T / XL2420TE (E suffix) -- and on the better ones, the strobe crosstalk ghost effect is often fainter than the famous green-ghosting effect of many CRT's.
-- *HOWEVER, the fact that LightBoost always has more motion blur than all CRTs, is totally FALSE*. It depends on the CRT (e.g. slower CRT's) and the strobe backlight (e.g. faster flashes, such as LightBoost=10% and future lower-persistence strobe backlights)
-- The TestUFO Panning Map Test at 1920 pixels/second, looks clearer on a XL2420TE or VG248QE LightBoost monitor at LightBoost=10%, than on a Sony FW900 CRT.

Make sure you compare apples-to-apples (same framerate-versus-Hertz differential). When playing games that are limited to running at low frame rates, you are comparing apples-to-bananas. Of course [email protected] (CRT) looks better than [email protected] (LightBoost). Therefore, do not compare motion blur of LightBoost 120Hz with CRT 85Hz, because textures always look much clearer when framerates matches refresh rate. Harmonics between framerate and refreshrate creates microstutters. LightBoost is like a fixed frequency CRT limited to functioning at 100-120Hz. Future strobe-backlight displays remove the 120Hz restriction of LightBoost -- e.g. the new BENQ XL2720Z (Z-suffix) can strobe at 75Hz through 144Hz, mimicking a CRT of any refresh rate 75Hz through 144Hz -- it even can strobe at odd rates such as 125Hz, the ideal framerate of Quake Live, too.

The proper way to compare CRT and strobe backlights, with texture testing, is to use the *same frame rate & refresh rate when comparing them*. Apples to apples. This actually reveals that textures (during motion) are clearer on the better LightBoost displays than on the slower CRT's, in a proper apples-versus-apples testing (same refresh rate, same frame rate, same resolution). Many CRT's cannot push [email protected], so try [email protected] (which the Sony FW900 manages to work at, since LightBoost also works at 100Hz), when comparing a FW900 [email protected] versus LightBoost [email protected] That said, it is noteworthy that at 100Hz, LightBoost has slightly higher persistence (1.7ms) than at 120Hz (1.4ms), so by forcing Lightboost down to 100Hz, you're actually handicapping LightBoost to more closely match FW900, but the TestUFO Panning Map Test still looks a bit clearer, and textures in games during fast movement still look clearer on LightBoost=10%, during an apples-to-apples test. With identical framerates and identical refresh rates, you eliminate microstutter interference (framerate-vs-refreshrate harmonics) from interfering with texture clarity.

Now, if you have a faster CRT (short persistence phosphor), good condition or mint condition, well calibrated, it will obviously have less motion blur than LightBoost=10%. However, the Sony is a favorite CRT, being widescreen and one of the few CRT-s that permits a more apples-to-apples comparison (same resolution, same refresh, same frame rate, same refresh rate).

*And, where the quickest LightBoost monitors with the fastest LightBoost=10% strobe flashes, has less motion blur than a mint-condition FW900 (slower phosphor), during a framerate=refreshrate test. Sharper textures on LightBoost, than on Sony FW900 CRT, for foreground strafing sideways in games.*

*This concludes the Blur Busters FACT CHECK.*


----------



## lllFATAL1TY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZeGermanB*
> 
> Someone just don't compare the *VG248QE* to the *XL2420T*. It's a complete different price class. The XL2420T is way more expensive, with features you most likely don't need.
> 
> *VG248QE* vs. *XL2411T* is a fair fight. Only minor differences (crosshair overlay vs. black equalizer). But the VG248QE is the only screen that can later, for around 120 bucks, be upgraded to an LightBoost 2.0 screen. So keep that in mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Btw. both BenQ's produced after 07/2012 (I guess?) got the new revision panels. So I call BS that your country only got Rev 1.0 screens. ^^_


on my country, Brazil, XL2420T and VG248QE have the same price

and XL2420T Rev. 2.0 only will be selling on Brazil next year

*crosshair for me is useless, i never will use this thing

because this im in doubt between VG248QE and XL2420T
benq have better colors, contrast and asus have better(less) inverse ghosting? is it?

thanks


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Got my Qnix today. 120hz does artifact but right now I have it set at 96hz. Let's just say, im not returning to TN anytime soon









Things to note:

There is more input lag (not enough make a difference imo)

There is more blurring

Besides that, I think its the best choice for all around gaming and normal usage monitor.


----------



## Jack Mac

And I think my monitor with lightboost is better, using a non-strobed monitor now is painful.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> Got my Qnix today. 120hz does artifact but right now I have it set at 96hz. Let's just say, im not returning to TN anytime soon


It's a pretty good monitor, when color and resolution is more important.
However, some of us get motion blur eyestrain (people who got less eyestrain on CRT) Sometimes motion blur is more important than color quality for some of us. And for me, the FG2421 actually balances things pretty well.

One of these days, we'll get the best of all worlds. We need brighter LED edgelights, while having massive brightness adjustment range, so that strobing can be ultrashort (e.g. half a millisecond or less) without creating an excessively dim image. This produces an even more CRT-like image.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> It's a pretty good monitor, when color and resolution is more important.
> However, some of us get motion blur eyestrain (people who got less eyestrain on CRT) Sometimes motion blur is more important than color quality for some of us. And for me, the FG2421 actually balances things pretty well.
> 
> One of these days, we'll get the best of all worlds. We need brighter LED edgelights, while having massive brightness adjustment range, so that strobing can be ultrashort (e.g. half a millisecond or less) without creating an excessively dim image. This produces an even more CRT-like image.


Colour accuracy doesn't mean much to me either. I just wanted high resolution and high refresh rate monitor. I too get eye strain very quickly and I put my monitors to low brightness settings. That being said, the 1440p and still smooth refresh rate (IMO) is a better trade of then 1080p 120hz. I've been using 120hz for a long while too. Granted, it's not the same as Light boost but i'm happy.


----------



## mdrejhon

Yeah, I want strobed 1440p or strobed 4K -- eventually it will happen, it will just take time.


----------



## ZeGermanB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> *FACT CHECK TIME.*......................................


Thanks for the extensive explanaition, really appreciate it. You are *The Man*.











But please tell me, *how do you know* that they haven't fed each display with their native frequency (85Hz, 120Hz & 60Hz downclocked)?

*And why shouldn't it be compareable?* All displays where fed with the same test sequence & recoreded with a 120Hz camera. That's what you would see in reality, if replayed 120x faster (minus the missing 880 frames of course, 1sec = 1000ms. Guess a 1000Hz camera, recording all monitors at the same time would make life a lot easier, lol.). When you now downclock a 120Hz Lightboost screen to 85Hz to match the CRT, the 120Hz screen would look even worse. I don't know, but somehow your thesis doesn't make any sense to me. When I look at 



, the CRT totally smokes all other screens in terms of ghosting & object sharpness. There is not much to complain, sharp like a swiss knife.

That's just what *my eyes* tells me by analyzing the available material.









However when it comes to *the overall motion clarity*, the fluidness of the images at real life speed, then that's hard to judge from a slow-mo vid. Logically you should get a way more fluid image with a 120Hz screen compared to an 85Hz screen. But how a ghosting 120Hz LCD matches against a nearly ghosting free 85Hz CRT, I don't know. In theory someone could argue that the 85Hz CRT looks better because the picture is just very sharp, while the other could argue that the blurry 120Hz LCD looks better because it pumps out 1/3rd more frames & therefore the blur is less visible. Someone could also argue that a little blur on the 120Hz kinda acts like anti-aliasing, creating a visible smoother image.

Am I right with my amateur'ish logic here or totally off-road?


----------



## Connolly

Is it possible to capture the UFO test results to view as a static image, without using a camera? And do any of you FG2421 owners have these results posted anywhere?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Yeah, I want strobed 1440p or strobed 4K -- eventually it will happen, it will just take time.


Like wise









Even when it does happen, it will be too expensive to adopt. It will be a few years before I can even consider 4k.


----------



## Scorpion667

Anyone know the postal code for tftcentral?

I want to mail them a pile of elephant feces for not reviewing the VG248QE.

GRRRR bloody bastards


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Connolly*
> 
> Is it possible to capture the UFO test results to view as a static image, without using a camera?


You can take screenshots, but it won't capture your screen's behaviours or tracking-based motion blur. You gotta use a camera (even if just using your cellphone camera).

I'm posting FG2421 results shortly. Keep tuned!


----------



## RyuVsJaquio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> You can take screenshots, but it won't capture your screen's behaviours or tracking-based motion blur. You gotta use a camera (even if just using your cellphone camera).
> 
> I'm posting FG2421 results shortly. Keep tuned!


Really looking forward to it Mark. My next monitor is down between the FG2421 and the XL2720Z and your reviews will be the deciding factor!


----------



## Soulfire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuVsJaquio*
> 
> Really looking forward to it Mark. My next monitor is down between the FG2421 and the XL2720Z and your reviews will be the deciding factor!


Same here!


----------



## Plasma

I just got the BenQ XL2420TE and all is well running @120 hz lightboosted. Except when I enable my 2nd monitor which is an Asus VW246 running @60 hz. When the 2nd monitor is plugged in Testufo goes from testing 120 fps to 60 fps. Nothing I've done seems to change that except disabling the Asus. Is there something I failed to read about multi-monitor setups with a mixture of refresh rates?


----------



## Jack Mac

That's weird, I use a lightboost monitor with a random 1600x900 60Hz monitor and I don't have that issue. Do you use windows aero? You need that for 120FPS on testufo.


----------



## Plasma

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> That's weird, I use a lightboost monitor with a random 1600x900 60Hz monitor and I don't have that issue. Do you use windows aero? You need that for 120FPS on testufo.


Yeah Aero is on.

Edit: OK I made the chrome window windowed mode and it went back to counting it as 120 fps. Not sure what's up, but maybe it's fine? It might be something to do with Displayfusion.


----------



## CHeNeRiC

Where's G-Sync for my vg24qe


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CHeNeRiC*
> 
> Where's G-Sync for my vg24qe


Coming early 2014.


----------



## mdrejhon

In the obvious Blur Busters style -- for *Triple Surround LightBoost Users* using latest NVIDIA Geforce drivers: *Hardware Modification for Permanent LightBoost*, to rescue your thousand-dollar rigs that lost LightBoost capability when newer NVIDIA drivers got released.

http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/hardware-mod/

http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/hardware-mod/

This is a hardware modification of your monitor, to force LightBoost, without waiting for NVIDIA to fix the surround LightBoost problem. If you're not afraid of opening up your monitor, this allows you to fix the surround LightBoost problem issue away, without waiting. We have spent lots of hours solving this problem for you guys.


----------



## crabula

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> *Hardware Modification for Permanent LightBoost*


Nice!

This paragraph seems incomplete:

"You will also need a separate computer running an older graphics card, for the EDID reprogramming part, since many EDID reprogrammers (e.g. PowerStrip, Linux)"


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crabula*
> 
> Nice!
> This paragraph seems incomplete:
> "You will also need a separate computer running an older graphics card, for the EDID reprogramming part, since many EDID reprogrammers (e.g. PowerStrip, Linux)"


Fixed, thanks!


----------



## latexyankee

Damn! Is there anyway to use a newer gpu or onboard graphics on another pc?

Edit- My friend has a 8400gs, I'm gonna give this a shot tonite...will report back.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *latexyankee*
> 
> Damn! Is there anyway to use a newer gpu or onboard graphics on another pc?


Upon testing, PowerStrip EDID programming generally does not support EDID programming via newer GPU's. However, several other third party EDID utilities may work. There is no guarantee, however...

You can test the EDID utility without opening up the monitor -- see if the utility software manages to successfully read your EDID. You can even try to use a boot disk or boot thumbdrive of Linux, and play with the 'edid-rw' command to see if it can read the EDID from your monitor's hardware. (LiveCD, Knoppix, etc)

One possibility is we can ask ToastyX for a LightBoost-optimized hardware EDID reprogramming utility, assuming we offer him enough incentive (donation). So that it can run within your existing Windows.

Thanks,
Mark Rejhon


----------



## latexyankee

I think I'm going to try the proven method above. I don't know of any other free utilities and hopefully I can install powerstrip on two machines. I can throw xp x86 on a machine in a few and use this 8400gs.

If anyone can think of a better solution using my main rig chime in.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *latexyankee*
> 
> I think I'm going to try the proven method above. I don't know of any other free utilities and hopefully I can install powerstrip on two machines. I can throw xp x86 on a machine in a few and use this 8400gs.
> 
> If anyone can think of a better solution using my main rig chime in.


EDID reflashing utilities are a hugely finicky lot. I've been unable to get the ones I tried, working under 64-bit Windows. Maybe ToastyX can create a new, modernized EDID flashing utility? I've posted a message on his monitortests.com forum to ask him.

So before opening the monitor, it is harmless to try reading your EDID with a utility -- see what happens. If the EDID can be successfully accessed, then you're likely good to go for reflashing once you open up and mod. Also, someone may yet discover a way of disabling the write-protect pin in a software-based manner (it's possible for some models of monitors), but it hasn't yet been found for the VG248QE


----------



## latexyankee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> EDID reflashing utilities are a hugely finicky lot. I've been unable to get the ones I tried, working under 64-bit Windows. Maybe ToastyX can create a new, modernized EDID flashing utility? I've posted a message on his monitortests.com forum to ask him.
> 
> So before opening the monitor, it is harmless to try reading your EDID with a utility -- see what happens. If the EDID can be successfully accessed, then you're likely good to go for reflashing once you open up and mod. Also, someone may yet discover a way of disabling the write-protect pin in a software-based manner (it's possible for some models of monitors), but it hasn't yet been found for the VG248QE


My monitors are already debezeled and opened, they are zip tied to the stands since you lose the swivel when removing the bezels.

Are you saying to try powerstrip first and see if my EDID can be read before attempting the surgery?

I have an xp installing as we speak....


----------



## latexyankee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> In the obvious Blur Busters style -- for *Triple Surround LightBoost Users* using latest NVIDIA Geforce drivers: *Hardware Modification for Permanent LightBoost*, to rescue your thousand-dollar rigs that lost LightBoost capability when newer NVIDIA drivers got released.
> 
> http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/hardware-mod/
> 
> http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/hardware-mod/
> 
> This is a hardware modification of your monitor, to force LightBoost, without waiting for NVIDIA to fix the surround LightBoost problem. If you're not afraid of opening up your monitor, this allows you to fix the surround LightBoost problem issue away, without waiting. We have spent lots of hours solving this problem for you guys.


I'm getting ready to attempt this but I see in the instructions it says to disconnect the DVI pin of the chip? Is this only going to work if you are connected with DVI?

I have 2 of my displays running DP and 1 DVI. Actually with titans you have to have at least one display connected through DP due to lack of 120hz compatabile DVI ports.

Please let me know before I go chopping away,.


----------



## mdrejhon

Oh, I wasn't saying you were necessarily wrong.
But not all LightBoost is all the same quality!
I have 4 LightBoost monitors sitting here. Some of them are clearer than others.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZeGermanB*
> 
> But please tell me, *how do you know* that they haven't fed each display with their native frequency (85Hz, 120Hz & 60Hz downclocked)?


Oh, you tested VSYNC ON at [email protected], [email protected], and [email protected]? Yes, that makes the test valid from the perspective of a "best-case motion fluidity scenario" (for that specific display for that specific refresh rate).
Quote:


> *And why shouldn't it be compareable?*


It is useful, though.
Quote:


> All displays where fed with the same test sequence & recoreded with a 120Hz camera. That's what you would see in reality, if replayed 120x faster (minus the missing 880 frames of course, 1sec = 1000ms. Guess a 1000Hz camera, recording all monitors at the same time would make life a lot easier, lol.). When you now downclock a 120Hz Lightboost screen to 85Hz to match the CRT, the 120Hz screen would look even worse. I don't know, but somehow your thesis doesn't make any sense to me.


Comparing using the camera is quite challenging using this. A higher speed camera helps, as does a pursuit camera too.

I didn't say 85Hz was worse. I only said that to compare between odd display technologies (to claim superiority to a specific tech), you should compare at the same frame rate to eliminate other factors. There's certainly situations where 60fps on one display has less motion blur than 120fps on a different display. I never said anything against that.









That said, a LightBoost display is very adjustable in persistence and has a wide variety of motion blur results. And this is only one LightBoost display.



(1ms of persistence equals 1 pixel of motion blur during 1000 pixels/sec; excluding strobe crosstalk effects).

However, since I now have several brands of LightBoost monitors sitting here (XL2411T, VG248QE, VG278H, and a XL2720Z beta unit) -- I have discovered some LightBoost monitors behave very differently from each other. Certain models apparently have better motion clarity. These have even shorter strobe lengths (1.0ms in the case of the VG278H original monitor, at LightBoost=10%. But the VG278HE uses 1.4 milliseconds instead, apparently.). Also, when I reduce Contrast Ratio down to 45%, the strobe crosstalk effect (LCD double-ghosting) completely disappears on the VG278H at least in tests such as www.testufo.com/ghosting However, this doesn't happen on the VG278HE or XL2720T, they adjust contrast differently.

Since I have FOUR different LightBoost monitors sitting here, in Blur Busters Lab:
-- There's about a >10x difference in strobe crosstalk (best LightBoost has >10x fainter ghosting than worst LightBoost)
-- There's about a 40% difference in motion clarity (1ms versus 1.4ms strobe) between one monitor's LightBoost=10% and another monitor's LightBoost=10%, at optimized Contrast settings.
-- There's more than a 100% difference in contrast ratio between my worst LightBoost monitor (VG248QE at ~450:1 contrast in strobe mode) and my best LightBoost monitor (VG278H / XL2720Z at ~900:1 contrast in strobe mode).
Quote:


> When I look at
> 
> 
> 
> , the CRT totally smokes all other screens in terms of ghosting & object sharpness. There is not much to complain, sharp like a swiss knife.


I believe you. Especially when you've got a well-calibrated FW900, measured against a suboptimally-configured LightBoost monitor. Some (but not all) LightBoost monitors manage to completely make ghosting disappear, especially when contrast is adjusted downwards slightly and when using LightBoost=10%.
Quote:


> However when it comes to *the overall motion clarity*, the fluidness of the images at real life speed, then that's hard to judge from a slow-mo vid. Logically you should get a way more fluid image with a 120Hz screen compared to an 85Hz screen. But how a ghosting 120Hz LCD matches against a nearly ghosting free 85Hz CRT, I don't know.


I already know [email protected] CRT is clearer looking than [email protected] LCD non-LightBoost. That's because CRT (often 1-2ms phosphor persistence) has shorter persistence than the LCD (8.3ms _sample-and-hold_ at 120Hz, even if the LCD uses 1ms or 2ms GtG). I'm not disagreeing with that. Motion clarity is actually proportional to persistence, not to refresh rate. That's why flicker/strobe displays (CRT, plasma, LightBoost, etc) have less motion blur than flickerfree displays.
Quote:


> In theory someone could argue that the 85Hz CRT looks better because the picture is just very sharp, while the other could argue that the blurry 120Hz LCD looks better because it pumps out 1/3rd more frames & therefore the blur is less visible. Someone could also argue that a little blur on the 120Hz kinda acts like anti-aliasing, creating a visible smoother image.


Did you ever test the LightBoost percentage settings? LightBoost defaults at 100% which is the blurriest LightBoost setting. LightBoost motion clarity becomes better if you intentionally adjust the LightBoost percentage downwards to 50% and further to 10%.

As the creator of TestUFO motion tests, it's also useful to test motion tests, as I have 15 different selectable tests at the upper-right corner.
Test these out too:

1. Ghosting test at www.testufo.com/ghosting
---- My best LightBoost monitor has more than 10x fainter ghosting than my worst LightBoost monitor.
---- Try adjusting contrast up/down while watching this. Some LightBoost monitor ghosting disappears (especially VG278H original model)
---- Try adjusting LightBoost 10% versus 100%. Observe how the dots in the UFO becomes clearer at LightBoost 10%
---- Try testing different models of LightBoost monitors. The VG278H / XL2411T / XL2420T (Rev 2.0) have less ghosting than the VG278HE (E suffix) and XL2420 (Rev 1.0).

2. Moving photo test at www.testufo.com/photo
---- It's good for comparing motion blur. Select the different photos at the top.
---- Try using ToastyX Strobelight to switch between LightBoost=10% versus LightBoost=100% while viewing a moving photo test at 1440pix/sec (or faster).

3. Also, stationary eyes/camera has different motion blur effects than a moving eye (tracking eyes on motion) or pursuit camera (tracking camera on motion).
---- See animation at www.testufo.com/eyetracking, LightBoost OFF, Brightness 100%
---- Observe how stationary eyes behave differently from moving eyes.
---- The same thing also happens with cameras too (stationary camera vs moving camera)
---- See animation at www.testufo.com/eyetracking#pattern=checkerboard, LightBoost OFF, Brightness 100%
---- Try also taking a photo of checkerboard, while keeping camera still
---- Try also taking a photo of checkerboard, while carefully waving the camera along the motion
---- Observe how stationary photo mimics stationary eyes, and how tracking camera photo mimics tracking eyes.

4. This is why I invented an inexpensive pursuit camera technique, with instructions at www.blurbusters.com/motion-tests/pursuit-camera
---- Pursuit camera sync track in ghosting tests at www.testufo.com/ghosting#separation=150&pursuit=1
---- Pursuit camera grid in moving photo tests at www.testufo.com/photo#photo=bumblebee.jpg&pps=960&pursuit=1
This makes it possible to photograph the same amount of motion blur that most human eyes see; since tracking camera is an analog for tracking eyes (motion tracking).

It would be way cool to see PCGH look into including TestUFO tests (even if not all of the above).


----------



## latexyankee

Upon trying the LIghtboost surround mod, I just recieve that a EDID Epromm was not found.

I might try the other one.

EDIt- On 2 of 3 now, wonder if it's the gpu.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *latexyankee*
> 
> Upon trying the LIghtboost surround mod, I just recieve that a EDID Epromm was not found.


Are you trying the PowerStrip method, or the Linux method?
I'm assuming you're running the EDID utilities first (before opening up your monitor) to test if the EDID is accessible by your EDID utility, before going to the trouble of opening your monitor.


----------



## latexyankee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *latexyankee*
> 
> Upon trying the LIghtboost surround mod, I just recieve that a EDID Epromm was not found.
> 
> I might try the other one.
> 
> EDIt- On 2 of 3 now, wonder if it's the gpu.


It was the GPU, Powerstrip is picky see below...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> In the obvious Blur Busters style -- for *Triple Surround LightBoost Users* using latest NVIDIA Geforce drivers: *Hardware Modification for Permanent LightBoost*, to rescue your thousand-dollar rigs that lost LightBoost capability when newer NVIDIA drivers got released.
> 
> http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/hardware-mod/
> 
> http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/hardware-mod/
> 
> This is a hardware modification of your monitor, to force LightBoost, without waiting for NVIDIA to fix the surround LightBoost problem. If you're not afraid of opening up your monitor, this allows you to fix the surround LightBoost problem issue away, without waiting. We have spent lots of hours solving this problem for you guys.


Confirmed. 100% operational. And many thanks.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Are you trying the PowerStrip method, or the Linux method?
> I'm assuming you're running the EDID utilities first (before opening up your monitor) to test if the EDID is accessible by your EDID utility, before going to the trouble of opening your monitor.


Yes I was using the Powerstrip method as powerstrip is a worthy utility to have aside from the edid write function. I've had the program installed for some time but never had motivation to register. Now that I have I'm regretting not reaping the power of all this app has to offer. Details below...

lightBOOOOOOST!

Yep it's official, if you have vg248qe surround setup you are rescued. I can confirm I am running LB while typing this. I'm sure you have read the full tutorial by now (http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/hardware-mod/) it is by no means difficult seeing as you should already have these displays with the bezels removed. If not do it now, it is, most likely , the easiest bezel to remove..period.

If you decide to use Powerstrip to read/write EDID be aware the GPU selection is picky. As it states in BlurBusters tutorial it is best to use a x86 OS and an old graphics card. I originally tried a 8400gs and a 8600gt on XP 32bit. Neither would work for me, I would recieve an error stating that a edid was not present. Knowing this was not possible considering the monitors have not been tampered with I decided to pick up a 8800GT from a local shop that robs the uneducated public for $39. The general consensus on the internet seem to agree that this is the "guaranteed" solution. After installing this card I was immediately able to access and read my EDID. This was all done on a prebuilt HP DC7900 I had in my truck converted to XPx86. I MUST STATE THAT MY NEIGHBOR WAS ABLE TO USE A 8600GT ON A CUSTOM SYSTEM BUT AS ALWAYS ..YMMV.

I would suggest a soldering iron to attempt this if possible, it will take you only seconds and save you piece of mind. My iron turned out to be dead when I fired it up ( prolly from lack of use) so I had to complete this with a model/precision blade. Sucks...don't do it if you don't have to, weather was bad, kids were asleep, 7 IPA's in the fridge leads you to do things in a manner you wouldn't on most occasions. If my Ohio State buckeyes were worth a **** I might have just went to sleep, but I was determined to tear something apart.

I digress, this is official and 100% working. Since this is a hardware mod I highly doubt there will ever be a caveat to this procedure. Run LB 24/7 in surround and stick your middle finger to Nvidia (forgive my AMD bias).

Thank god I had a couple brews in the fridge.

Thanks to Toni Wilen for bringing this modification to the public.

Thanks to everyone on OCN who are always incredibly insightful and helpful.....send PM if you have any questions or are unsure in the procedure.

Many, many- many thanks to Mark aka mdrejhon from BlurBusters. I am forever a follower and a fan for everything you have done to help the community and awareness of such issues.

Donations are forthcoming to all who helped correct this issue.

Happy Holidays


----------



## georaldc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> This is normal for LightBoost, because it uses accelerated LCD scanning during LightBoost (refreshing the panel in ~1/200sec) to allow a large blanking interval between refreshes. This is to allow the LCD pixels to finish transitions, before the backlight gets strobed.
> 
> (Information from LightBoost reverse engineering).


Interesting. Still, I wonder if there's something up with my monitor because I don't see many (or any) people complaining about the colors. In fact, I see a lot of people praising the color quality being outputted by this monitor in comparison to other displays.

I also just noticed that going up in hz makes color quality take an even greater nose dize. In 144hz, I lose the dotted artifacts from lightboost but low contrast scenes become more of a pixelated mess (kind of reminds me of macroblocking artifacts). Inversion artifacts also become way worse, especially when running at native res. The checkerboard pattern in testufo.com looks much better at lower resolutions while 1920x1080 gives me purple/green boxes


----------



## Scorpion667

I'm having an issue in Win 8.1 64bit where sometimes Lightboost doesn't come on automatically when I start the PC and I have to reinitialize screen from ToastyX menu.

I did try to uninstall my monitor from device manager then re installed with ToastyX.

Anyone had/have a similar issue? I'm on 331.82 driver.


----------



## Jack Mac

Do you unplug your computer when you turn it off? If so, that's your problem.


----------



## kskwerl

Will installing Nvidia Geforce Experience mess up my lightboost?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kskwerl*
> 
> Will installing Nvidia Geforce Experience mess up my lightboost?


No. At least not for single-monitor users.


----------



## skupples

So, i'm starting to get what I can only describe in my lack of monitor terminology as "eye banding" i don't see the banding on screen, but when I look away from the screen I see it in my eyes. AOC 2752Vh 27inch TN panels, landscape. They are set @ 30% brightness & it still occurs.


----------



## kskwerl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> No. At least not for single-monitor users.


Thhank you sir!


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> In the obvious Blur Busters style -- for *Triple Surround LightBoost Users* using latest NVIDIA Geforce drivers: *Hardware Modification for Permanent LightBoost*, to rescue your thousand-dollar rigs that lost LightBoost capability when newer NVIDIA drivers got released.
> 
> http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/hardware-mod/
> 
> http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/hardware-mod/
> 
> This is a hardware modification of your monitor, to force LightBoost, without waiting for NVIDIA to fix the surround LightBoost problem. If you're not afraid of opening up your monitor, this allows you to fix the surround LightBoost problem issue away, without waiting. We have spent lots of hours solving this problem for you guys.


First of all, thank you once again for your fine work in the lightboost field..Very much appreciated. Thank you.

My question is can I use the same bin files you have posted in the How To?

So far I've attempted this using powerstrip on a Toshiba laptop with one VG278HE connected via a VGA cable. The graphics chip is Intel 82852/82855 GM/GME and not nvidia.. I'm able to read and save the monitors own EDID inf file. I'm at the point of updating the ROM. Powerstrip found the HE's EEPROM first try. I can now select the bin file I want to update with.. Can I use the same files you have posted in the How To? I didn't want to push the go button until I found out if those files are not just for the VG248QE...If I can complete this step of re-programming I have no problems in opening up the HE and searching for the DVI ROM. I'm almost certain your answer is going to be yes, and the boards are almost identical in both monitors..

Because I prefer landscape I only debezled the center monitor and just put the side two behind the front, then use bezel corrected resolution. .. But I went to a lot of trouble of sickerflexing the metal box with the monitor mounts to the back of the lcd.. That stuff is hard as a rock. Not looking forward to prying that apart.. I never thought Id even need to get inside there.. I went the sickerflex route because the next morning after I'd debezled the night before I jumped into computer seat just in time to catch the lcd panel as it miraculously detached from the metal box right in front of me. The stock standard tape, once it gets warmed up by the monitor being on, gets a little soft.. I was lucky I didn't find it on the floor when I came down in the morning.. Or watched it happen while on the other side of the room. Now that would of really sucked..


----------



## ds84

Can i say lightboost is to be used during gaming, and for normal sufing the web and all, i can off lightboost?


----------



## Rage19420

I tried the ToastyX LB app after the latest nvidia drivers stopped working properly. I noticed that there was a FPS increase in BF4 vs LB off. Is this normal?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rage19420*
> 
> I tried the ToastyX LB app after the latest nvidia drivers stopped working properly. I noticed that there was a FPS increase in BF4 vs LB off. Is this normal?


Is this single-monitor or multiple-monitor?
Remember you sometimes need to re-run strobelight-setup whenever you upgrade your graphics drivers, or when you've unplugged your monitor from power (which clears LightBoost status, and needs re-initialization)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ds84*
> 
> Can i say lightboost is to be used during gaming, and for normal sufing the web and all, i can off lightboost?


Yes, with ToastyX Strobelight, it's easy to turn ON/OFF LightBoost.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> Because of my investment in surround I'm going to attempt this myself.. So far I've attempted this using powerstrip on a Toshiba laptop with one VG278HE connected via a VGA cable. The graphics chip is Intel 82852/82855 GM/GME and not nvidia.. I'm able to read and save the monitors own EDID inf file. I'm at the point of updating the ROM. Powerstrip found the HE's EEPROM first try. I can now select the bin file I want to update with.. Can I use the same files you have posted in the How To? I didn't want to push the go button until I found out if those files are not just for the VG248QE...


We're not sure if the VG278HE uses a write-protected EDID. You can attempt to flash without opening the monitor, and see if you get a success. (Make sure you re-read the EDID afterwards, to see if it it as the new values)

However, the EDID LightBoost values works on all LightBoost monitors that are known to be compatible with the ToastyX utilities (Custom Resolution Utilities, and Strobelight). If the .bin files worked as a software-based EDID override (via ToastyX CRU), then the same .bin files should also work as a hardware-based EDID override. While not a guarantee, the .bin files from the LightBoost Hardware Mod page, should work on any Strobelight-compatible LightBoost monitor -- because StrobeLight-setup actually installs the very same kind of EDID but in the registry (in a software-based manner). You're just installing these into the monitor's EDID ROM.

But yes, it's a non-zero risk, as if you screw up the EDID flash ROM, you might have difficulty booting up (except in VGA mode) until the EDID ROM is reflashed/fixed. As always, "proceed at your own risk".

P.S. If you need 144Hz again, you will have to manually add 144Hz back in ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility as the .bin files downloaded from Blur Busters does not have the 144Hz non-LightBoost mode, if that mode is desired. You could modify the .bin files to add other EDID modes. That said, limiting the hardware EDID flash to only LightBoost modes, does simplify things -- displays drivers have no choice but to use LightBoost compatible modes (which is precisely why it works in surround mode). You can add other modes via software, as well.


----------



## Rage19420

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Is this single-monitor or multiple-monitor?
> Remember you sometimes need to re-run strobelight-setup whenever you upgrade your graphics drivers, or when you've unplugged your monitor from power (which clears LightBoost status, and needs re-initialization)
> Yes, with ToastyX Strobelight, it's easy to turn ON/OFF LightBoost.


Single monitor Asus VG278H. I thought it was odd too, but a good kind of odd.


----------



## Jodiuh

Can someone w/ an XL2420TE and an Nvidia card test something for me?

Change the color settings for red (all 3 settings, just turn em down) and launch BF4. For me, the settings work on the desktop, but as soon as I alt tab into the game, they go back to stock.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Hey I got a question, with ToastyX's lightboost program is there any reason why it sometimes takes over 1000 passes to turn lightboost on? been happening a lot lately and its getting annoying


----------



## Wrutanks

I love the app and it has made a wonderful difference. My only complaint with it is that it uses CTRL ALT numpad values for its keybinds. Would it be possible to change this or to give us the ability to choose our own bindings for the program? I only ask because I use those bindings for my G700 mouse for the MMO games I play and its pretty much the only combination that works well.


----------



## Jack Mac

You can always exit the program, lightboost will still be enabled and if you need to adjust the brightness you can reopen the program. And the program takes a few passes if you unplug your monitor or turn it off, it's really more of an annoyance but I'd rather unplug my monitor and deal with it than waste electricity.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> You can always exit the program, lightboost will still be enabled and if you need to adjust the brightness you can reopen the program. And the program takes a few passes if you unplug your monitor or turn it off, it's really more of an annoyance but I'd rather unplug my monitor and deal with it than waste electricity.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Hey I got a question, with ToastyX's lightboost program is there any reason why it sometimes takes over 1000 passes to turn lightboost on? been happening a lot lately and its getting annoying


If you unplug your monitor, it needs to reinitialize LightBoost in your monitor.

Instead of turning off your monitor or unplugging, enable power management (Sleep Mode) in the Screensaver. I have a Kill-A-Watt and the LightBoost monitors use less than 1 watt in sleep mode; it's not necessary to unplug your monitor. Just leave your monitor on and walk away from the computer or shutdown. The monitor will go to sleep automatically.

That way, ToastyX Strobelight never has to reinitialize LightBoost after that first time. Usually turning off the monitor via the front button is okay too, but may not be on all models.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> If you unplug your monitor, it needs to reinitialize LightBoost in your monitor.
> 
> Instead of turning off your monitor or unplugging, enable power management (Sleep Mode) in the Screensaver. I have a Kill-A-Watt and the LightBoost monitors use less than 1 watt in sleep mode; it's not necessary to unplug your monitor. Just leave your monitor on and walk away from the computer or shutdown. The monitor will go to sleep automatically.
> 
> That way, ToastyX Strobelight never has to reinitialize LightBoost after that first time. Usually turning off the monitor via the front button is okay too, but may not be on all models.


How does this apply to the XL2420TX? When I turn off my monitor thru the front button it seems to enable LB upon startup fairly quick. When you say "initialize", is that the long pause you have to wait for when you install the app for the first time?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> How does this apply to the XL2420TX? When I turn off my monitor thru the front button it seems to enable LB upon startup fairly quick. When you say "initialize", is that the long pause you have to wait for when you install the app for the first time?


No, you're OK.
I'm talking about the minutes-long initialization that ToastyX Strobelight does. Some people are getting that everytime they run Strobelight. (Sometimes takes over 1000 passes).

For most of us, this only occurs once, and it never happens again.


----------



## overvolted

Having a very hard time justifying buying any G Sync enabled monitor if the display is not glossy. I don't doubt the technology, I believe for gaming it will be all that and then some. But for someone that works from the PC, reads many many documents, as well as game the thought of using anti-glare / matte display as my main display seems horrible. I have 4 extra monitors (all are very decent) that I use for work and while they do their job I would not want to be looking at them at a constant. I currently have the Samsung S23A700D as my main display, it's every bit as clear as my ipad (retina) and keeps my eye strain at a minimum, looks brilliant in games with no ghosting. My other monitors don't even come close, and while I love the thought of no screen tearing or input lag I will definitely not be touching the Asus model that is confirmed for G Sync. I don't think my eyes would ever forgive me if I did.


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> We're not sure if the VG278HE uses a write-protected EDID. You can attempt to flash without opening the monitor, and see if you get a success. (Make sure you re-read the EDID afterwards, to see if it it as the new values)
> 
> However, the EDID LightBoost values works on all LightBoost monitors that are known to be compatible with the ToastyX utilities (Custom Resolution Utilities, and Strobelight). If the .bin files worked as a software-based EDID override (via ToastyX CRU), then the same .bin files should also work as a hardware-based EDID override. While not a guarantee, the .bin files from the LightBoost Hardware Mod page, should work on any Strobelight-compatible LightBoost monitor -- because StrobeLight-setup actually installs the very same kind of EDID but in the registry (in a software-based manner). You're just installing these into the monitor's EDID ROM.
> 
> But yes, it's a non-zero risk, as if you screw up the EDID flash ROM, you might have difficulty booting up (except in VGA mode) until the EDID ROM is reflashed/fixed. As always, "proceed at your own risk".
> 
> P.S. If you need 144Hz again, you will have to manually add 144Hz back in ToastyX Custom Resolution Utility as the .bin files downloaded from Blur Busters does not have the 144Hz non-LightBoost mode, if that mode is desired. You could modify the .bin files to add other EDID modes. That said, limiting the hardware EDID flash to only LightBoost modes, does simplify things -- displays drivers have no choice but to use LightBoost compatible modes (which is precisely why it works in surround mode). You can add other modes via software, as well.


Thanks for that info mate. Another question. If I'm connected via VGA and powerstrip is finding an EEPROM. Which one of the two do you think its finding? The DVI or the HDMI rom?

*edit: I was thinking, would it be better to add a vga-DVI adapter and connect via the DVI on the monitor? Would that then guarantee the DVI eeprom to be used?


----------



## Hefner

Any monitors similar to the Eizo fg2124 on the horizon? I really want the Eizo but the lightboost mode on the monitor is 120hz only. I'd really like an IPS which has multiple lightboost settings (i.e. 85hz, 100hz, 120hz)


----------



## SeanJ76

I have owned the BenQ 2420TE for about 3 weeks now, love this monitor, went from a Xl2370 Samsung to this screen and wow what a difference !!! Colors on the BenQ are very nice, several profiles to choose from, Lightboost technology, flicker free, motion blur, are just some of the features that the Asus does not have, I've read about 10 reviews of the TE vs the 248Q and they all chose the BenQ TE over the Asus. Well worth the 269.00 bucks!


----------



## kevindd992002

What does "refresh rates are swapped" mean in the swapped version of ToastyX Beta 3? And why do you need it for 3D Vision to work?

Also, I have Beta 2 installed right now. What is the process in upgrading to Beta 3? Do I need to uninstall Beta 2 first?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> What does "refresh rates are swapped" mean in the swapped version of ToastyX Beta 3? And why do you need it for 3D Vision to work?


If "Strobing ON" turns off LightBoost and "Strobing OFF" turns on LightBoost, then this is easily fixed by re-running strobelight-setup.exe

This is to solve a 3D Vision problem (users who want to use shutter glasses while still being able to use ToastyX Strobelight). The 3D Vision drivers are extremely picky with timings, and ToastyX Strobelight uses separate timings for Strobing ON versus Strobing OFF. So Strobelight Beta 3 co-operates much better with 3D Vision.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> Thanks for that info mate. Another question. If I'm connected via VGA and powerstrip is finding an EEPROM. Which one of the two do you think its finding? The DVI or the HDMI rom?


Interesting question. Probably the DVI one, since it often handles the analog port (to support DVI-A). You can give it a try, especially if reading the EDID is successfully showing 120Hz modes, and you are able to run at 120Hz via VGA, too. A VGA-to-DVI adaptor is simply a DVI-A adaptor, but you can give it a try! (at your own risk, of course).


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> If "Strobing ON" turns off LightBoost and "Strobing OFF" turns on LightBoost, then this is easily fixed by re-running strobelight-setup.exe
> 
> This is to solve a 3D Vision problem (users who want to use shutter glasses while still being able to use ToastyX Strobelight). The 3D Vision drivers are extremely picky with timings, and ToastyX Strobelight uses separate timings for Strobing ON versus Strobing OFF. So Strobelight Beta 3 co-operates much better with 3D Vision.


If I understand correctly, you intentionally need the swapped Beta 3 version if you want to use Stereoscopic 3D together with ToastyX's software? Can't you just simply turn off LB with the normal Beta 3 version and then turn on Stereoscopic 3D in the NVIDIA Control Panel?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> If I understand correctly, you intentionally need the swapped Beta 3 version if you want to use Stereoscopic 3D together with ToastyX's software?


Correct.
Quote:


> Can't you just simply turn off LB with the normal Beta 3 version and then turn on Stereoscopic 3D in the NVIDIA Control Panel?


Yeah, but that is not the point.

What formerly happened is that if you ran strobelight-setup from Beta1 or Beta2, it completely prevented 3D Vision from working at all. This should be longer a problem with Beta 3 once you fix things by running the Beta3 strobelight-setup once to reenable 3D Vision -- you can now use LightBoost for either 2D or stereoscopic 3D.


----------



## Z Overlord

so is it safe to say there won't be any G Sync monitors that also have official nonlight boost strobing?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> so is it safe to say there won't be any G Sync monitors that also have official nonlight boost strobing?


What do you mean?

What you said seems to contradict against the information posted on October 19th:
http://www.blurbusters.com/confirmed-nvidia-g-sync-includes-a-strobe-backlight-upgrade/


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Correct.
> Yeah, but that is not the point.
> 
> What formerly happened is that if you ran strobelight-setup from Beta1 or Beta2, it completely prevented 3D Vision from working at all. This should be longer a problem with Beta 3 once you fix things by running the Beta3 strobelight-setup once to reenable 3D Vision -- you can now use LightBoost for either 2D or stereoscopic 3D.


Oh ok. So basically, what the swapped version does is it makes the 120Hz non-strobed and then makes Strobing OFF to turn on LB so that it still uses 120Hz LB?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Oh ok. So basically, what the swapped version does is it makes the 120Hz non-strobed and then makes Strobing OFF to turn on LB so that it still uses 120Hz LB?


No, that only happens if you use strobelight.exe from Beta3 with strobelight-setup.exe from Beta2 (as the last setup program you ran). Basically, don't upgrade and then directly run strobelight.exe without first running setup. If you did, you get the swapped problem. To fix this, you have to re-run strobelight-setup.exe from Beta3 in order to fix this confusing swapped ON<->OFF behavior ("Strobing ON" wrongly "LightBoost OFF"). The timings had to be swapped to fix the 3D Vision compatibility problem, and this created a confusing side effects if you forgot to run the setup. If you run beta3 setup, 120Hz becomes Strobing ON (LightBoost ON), and 121Hz becomes Strobing OFF (LightBoost OFF).

Moral of the story: In other words, everytime you upgrade Strobelight, always re-run strobelight-setup.exe ...


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> No, that only happens if you use strobelight.exe from Beta3 with strobelight-setup.exe from Beta2 (as the last setup program you ran). Basically, don't upgrade and then directly run strobelight.exe without first running setup. If you did, you get the swapped problem. To fix this, you have to re-run strobelight-setup.exe from Beta3 in order to fix this confusing swapped ON<->OFF behavior ("Strobing ON" wrongly "LightBoost OFF"). The timings had to be swapped to fix the 3D Vision compatibility problem, and this created a confusing side effects if you forgot to run the setup. If you run beta3 setup, 120Hz becomes Strobing ON (LightBoost ON), and 121Hz becomes Strobing OFF (LightBoost OFF).
> 
> Moral of the story: In other words, everytime you upgrade Strobelight, always re-run strobelight-setup.exe ...


I completely understand that. That pertains to the swapped problem though. What I was actually referring to as "swapped version" is the one posted here with an exact note of:

Note for NVIDIA 3D Vision users: Stereoscopic 3D may not enable properly unless 120 Hz is non-strobed. Here is a version with the refresh rates swapped: http://www.monitortests.com/strobelight-beta3-swapped.zip

What is that beta 3 swapped?


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> What do you mean?
> 
> What you said seems to contradict against the information posted on October 19th:
> http://www.blurbusters.com/confirmed-nvidia-g-sync-includes-a-strobe-backlight-upgrade/


well lightboost is a hack that reduces color quality, I assume this would be reduced on monitors that naturally support strobing


----------



## glenster

G-Sync monitor preview:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/64586-week-nvidias-g-sync-monitor.html


----------



## Morkai

The VG248QE with g-sync enabled has a preliminary release date in scandinavia now (23.dec.2013 - these dates are often quite close to reality).
The price is quite high - twice that of the original model. It could be an exaggerated price, but who knows.

Since the FG2421 is so much better quality in every regard except the g-sync stuff, I will not even consider this one personally.


----------



## Z Overlord

So is there a downside to G Sync? Like it sounds to good to be true, will there be any downsides or tradeoffs?


----------



## reqq

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Morkai*
> 
> The VG248QE with g-sync enabled has a preliminary release date in scandinavia now (23.dec.2013 - these dates are often quite close to reality).
> The price is quite high - twice that of the original model. It could be an exaggerated price, but who knows.
> 
> Since the FG2421 is so much better quality in every regard except the g-sync stuff, I will not even consider this one personally.


haha *** 5495 swedish kr for that... well good luck...as you said noone with a brain would choose that over fg2421, which cost 4700 in same currency.


----------



## reqq

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> So is there a downside to G Sync? Like it sounds to good to be true, will there be any downsides or tradeoffs?


gsync doesnt do anything to blur.. so for me that always run on high frame rates and never seen screen tearing, gsync doesnt do anything.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reqq*
> 
> gsync doesnt do anything to blur.. so for me that always run on high frame rates and never seen screen tearing, gsync doesnt do anything.


doesn't strobe lighting make screen tearing more noticeable? What kind of fps do you get?


----------



## JustinSane

Torn between waiting for the new BenQ XL2420Z and just buying the XL2420TE.

Question: Is the Lightboost difference between the TE and T version drastic? Because on the 2420T I own now I can't really tell a big difference with Lightboost.


----------



## mdrejhon

Yes, Blur Busters received a G-SYNC monitor too.

Here are my personal findings, Part #1: http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/preview/

The EIZO review will come out too, it is postponed a little bit later due to extra factors (since we discovered some tricks that improve its motion quality, which might solve some of the complaints posted so far), so I've shuffled the timing of reviews around.


----------



## kevindd992002

@mrejhon

What's your comment on my previous message?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> What is that beta 3 swapped?


Hmm, now I see. There might exist two different Beta3, which is a bit confusing.

It appears one Beta3 uses 120Hz for Strobing ON (LightBoost ON) and 121Hz for Strobing OFF (LightBoost OFF).
.And the other Beta3 uses 121Hz for Strobing ON (LightBoost ON) and 120Hz for Strobing OFF (LightBoost OFF).

Either way, if you choose one of the Beta3's (or switch between the Beta3's) --just make sure you re-run strobelight-setup.exe so that Strobing ON/OFF equals LightBoost ON/OFF.


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Yes, Blur Busters received a G-SYNC monitor too.
> 
> Here are my personal findings, Part #1: http://www.blurbusters.com/gsync/preview/
> 
> The EIZO review will come out too, it is postponed a little bit later due to extra factors (since we discovered some tricks that improve its motion quality, which might solve some of the complaints posted so far), so I've shuffled the timing of reviews around.


Great article. I absolutely LOVE the "virtual" fixes. It shows people who don't "see" tearing or stuttering what we're talking about, haha.


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikjadoon*
> 
> Great article. I absolutely LOVE the "virtual" fixes. It shows people who don't "see" tearing or stuttering what we're talking about, haha.


Tearing isn't too noticeable and it's really not that big of a deal to me, I'll live with it over paying $100+ for gsync and having to switch back to nvidia and lose lightboost.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> Tearing isn't too noticeable and it's really not that big of a deal to me, I'll live with it over paying $100+ for gsync and having to switch back to nvidia and lose lightboost.


G-SYNC also includes an already revealed lightboost sequel with better picture quality. Not sure if it would work on AMD, though.

But, yes, GSYNC only works on NVIDIA...


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Hmm, now I see. There might exist two different Beta3, which is a bit confusing.
> 
> It appears one Beta3 uses 120Hz for Strobing ON (LightBoost ON) and 121Hz for Strobing OFF (LightBoost OFF).
> .And the other Beta3 uses 121Hz for Strobing ON (LightBoost ON) and 120Hz for Strobing OFF (LightBoost OFF).
> 
> Either way, if you choose one of the Beta3's (or switch between the Beta3's) --just make sure you re-run strobelight-setup.exe so that Strobing ON/OFF equals LightBoost ON/OFF.


Yeah, tried both of the versions and they were exactly that. The swapped version is said to be more compatible with 3D vision because 3D is sensitive when 120Hz is set as a strobed refresh rate which brings me to my next question. How do I turn on Stereoscopic 3D when using the swapped version? Do I need to switch to non LB mode first and then turn 3D on in NVCP?


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> G-SYNC also includes an already revealed lightboost sequel with better picture quality. Not sure if it would work on AMD, though.


but can't light boost not be used on with G Sync at the same time?

Also would you say that G Sync is smoother than V Sync OFF? Also is there a performance penalty to G Sync? Like it can't somehow be processed with no computing power right?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> Also would you say that G Sync is smoother than V Sync OFF?


Much smoother (to my eyes). It looks as if the monitor is *looks always framerate-locked* 24/7 at all times (e.g. [email protected]). I am a guy sensitive to tearing, so it's quite useful.

Strobing is good for high constant max frame rates, but there will be games that never manage to go to triple-digit frame rates, so for those, LightBoost starts to look really terrible, and I prefer G-SYNC over LightBoost when framerates fall far below the triple-digits.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> Also is there a performance penalty to G Sync?


Almost none.
Quote:


> Like it can't somehow be processed with no computing power right?


The G-SYNC offloads a lot of it, and the input lag of the start of the G-SYNC scan appears to be less than 3 milliseconds (photodiode oscilloscope measurement from Direct 3D Present() of a empty framebuffer changing from black to white, to the first light coming from pixels at the top of the screen) -- no different from regular 144Hz.

Unlike VSYNC OFF, there's no refresh-splicing effect. The refresh is delivered immediately like VSYNC OFF, except at the very top of the screen, scan from top-to-bottom, rather than a splice (tearline) anywhere in the middle of the scanout.

The framerate of G-SYNC is almost identical to the frame rate of VSYNC OFF whenever you're playing at sub-144fps levels.

The only bottleneck relative to VSYNC OFF, is simply G-SYNC's 144fps cap. I really see of G-SYNC is if you're an ultra extreme FPS player that likes to play 500fps VSYNC OFF. In that rare, little case, G-SYNC will add a bit of input lag relative to those "500fps" situations. However, if you're playing games like Battlefield 3 or Battlefield 4, you're not going to get far beyond 144fps, so you won't get any noticeable latency difference from VSYNC OFF.

Competitive gamers, who play the type of games that are unable to run more than 144fps, will probably like GSYNC a lot, since the lack of VSYNC OFF stutters will make it easier to aim a headshot. My input lag calculations show that for games running sub-144fps framerates, there's no advantage to using VSYNC OFF instead of G-SYNC, if you've got a G-SYNC monitor sitting on your very desk.

In the years to come, when G-SYNC goes far beyond 144fps (e.g. 240fps, 480fps), the advantages of ultrahigh framerate VSYNC OFF will disappear over time, so the 144fps limit of GSYNC won't be a limit forever.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Much smoother (to my eyes). It looks as if the monitor is *looks always framerate-locked* 24/7 at all times (e.g. [email protected]). I am a guy sensitive to tearing, so it's quite useful.
> 
> Strobing is good for high constant max frame rates, but there will be games that never manage to go to triple-digit frame rates, so for those, LightBoost starts to look really terrible, and I prefer G-SYNC over LightBoost when framerates fall far below the triple-digits.
> Almost none.
> The G-SYNC offloads a lot of it, and the input lag of the start of the G-SYNC scan appears to be less than 3 milliseconds (photodiode oscilloscope measurement from Direct 3D Present() of a empty framebuffer changing from black to white, to the first light coming from pixels at the top of the screen) -- no different from regular 144Hz.
> 
> Unlike VSYNC OFF, there's no refresh-splicing effect. The refresh is delivered immediately like VSYNC OFF, except at the very top of the screen, scan from top-to-bottom, rather than a splice (tearline) anywhere in the middle of the scanout.
> 
> The framerate of G-SYNC is almost identical to the frame rate of VSYNC OFF whenever you're playing at sub-144fps levels.
> 
> The only bottleneck relative to VSYNC OFF, is simply G-SYNC's 144fps cap. I really see of G-SYNC is if you're an ultra extreme FPS player that likes to play 500fps VSYNC OFF. In that rare, little case, G-SYNC will add a bit of input lag relative to those "500fps" situations. However, if you're playing games like Battlefield 3 or Battlefield 4, you're not going to get far beyond 144fps, so you won't get any noticeable latency difference from VSYNC OFF.
> 
> Competitive gamers, who play the type of games that are unable to run more than 144fps, will probably like GSYNC a lot, since the lack of VSYNC OFF stutters will make it easier to aim a headshot. My input lag calculations show that for games running sub-144fps framerates, there's no advantage to using VSYNC OFF instead of G-SYNC, if you've got a G-SYNC monitor sitting on your very desk.
> 
> In the years to come, when G-SYNC goes far beyond 144fps (e.g. 240fps, 480fps), the advantages of ultrahigh framerate VSYNC OFF will disappear over time, so the 144fps limit of GSYNC won't be a limit forever.


looks like my next monitor will be a G Sync 144Hz monitor and my next GPU will be an Nvidia


----------



## reqq

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikjadoon*
> 
> Great article. I absolutely LOVE the "virtual" fixes. It shows people who don't "see" tearing or stuttering what we're talking about, haha.


right, because see something on a test image is the same as ingame experience when you have 100 other things to care about. Thats why alot of people dont care about tearing, especially at higher frames.


----------



## JackNaylorPE

THG looks at G_Sync

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/g-sync-v-sync-monitor,3699-8.html


----------



## TiezZ BE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> looks like my next monitor will be a G Sync 144Hz monitor and my next GPU will be an Nvidia


I think it also will be good for the IPS monitor (60Hz) enthousiasts who refuse to use TN panels. I understand them because everyone has their own personal preferences (good colors, good viewing angles, etc...) when it comes to choosing a monitor.


----------



## QuietGamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiezZ BE*
> 
> I think it also will be good for the IPS monitor (60Hz) enthousiasts who refuse to use TN panels. I understand them because everyone has their own personal preferences (good colors, good viewing angles, etc...) when it comes to choosing a monitor.


That would be me!

I would like this monitor with G-Sync Please.










http://www.techspot.com/news/54911-dell-readying-34-inch-219-display-with-3440-x-1440-resolution.html


----------



## TiezZ BE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuietGamer*
> 
> That would be me!
> 
> I would like this monitor with G-Sync Please.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.techspot.com/news/54911-dell-readying-34-inch-219-display-with-3440-x-1440-resolution.html


Damn that 21:9 DELL looks sweet if that would include g-sync in the future. But I can't afford a IPS monitor like that (I couldn't justify paying so much for a monitor) at this moment even without g-sync


----------



## SightUp

When G-Sync is released, and I buy one, will I still need to, be able to, have to run the Lightboost fix?


----------



## gopala33

i waiting G-Sync monitor 27inch Displayport for PC
i saw ASUS VG248QE HDMI Removed daam

i need HDMI FOR USE Console XBOX360 AND PS3 and XBOX ONE AND PS4
HDMI wont work G-Sync i dont care
G-Sync must PC only that no problem


----------



## JackNaylorPE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiezZ BE*
> 
> I think it also will be good for the IPS monitor (60Hz) enthousiasts who refuse to use TN panels. I understand them because everyone has their own personal preferences (good colors, good viewing angles, etc...) when it comes to choosing a monitor.


I have a 120 Hz Asus TN, a 144 Hz TN and a Dell IPS, a Eizo / Nanao CRT and another 8 desktop / laptop screens around the house.

There simply is no 'all around best" monitor type. The Dell rocks for photo editing and going from the Dell to the two Asus with Grandma's Thanksgiving dinner pics has granny looking like a brothel madam. But in gaming, the Dell has a washed out color appearance with the two Asus monitors giving a much more crisp, smoother, brighter and satisfying experience. Watching movies, the Dell has better facial colors but scenery looks better on the others and motion is cleaner and it's easier to see what's going on in dark scenes on the Asus w/o adjusting brightness or gamma.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiezZ BE*
> 
> I think it also will be good for the IPS monitor (60Hz) enthousiasts who refuse to use TN panels. I understand them because everyone has their own personal preferences (good colors, good viewing angles, etc...) when it comes to choosing a monitor.


I currently have an IPS panel, I'd be willing to give it up for G Sync tbh


----------



## TiezZ BE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> I currently have an IPS panel, I'd be willing to give it up for G Sync tbh


Why would you *if* you like the benefits IPS has over TN monitors??? G-sync IPS monitors are probably coming on the market in 2014. You should only go for a TN monitor if you want a more responsive monitor and play lots of fps


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiezZ BE*
> 
> Why would you *if* you like the benefits IPS has over TN monitors??? G-sync IPS monitors are probably coming on the market in 2014. *You should only go for a TN monitor if you want a more responsive monitor* and play lots of fps


bingo


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> bingo


Don't forget EIZO's 120Hz VA panel.

I have one sitting here, and it extremely hard to bet if you play games at triple-digit frame rates (playing old games like CS:GO, or a super fast card, or a mutli-GPU setup). I'm seeing IPS-like colors with the responsiveness of LightBoost. The minor dark gamma issues are a nonissue for myself (as long as the FG2421 has warmed up).


----------



## senna89

@mdrejhon .... Excuse me where is your review about Eizo







????


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> @mdrejhon .... Excuse me where is your review about Eizo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ????


It has been unavoidably juggled around, due to several things:
(1) Talk to manufacturer about the issues that came up on OCN and HardForum and need more time to test/explain these issues, (2) Unexpectedly got the GSYNC monitor with a strong deadline, (3) warranty claim on a defective i1 Display Pro

Overall, I love both monitors, but for different reasons. There are some games I prefer playing on the FG2421 (e.g. Bioshock Infinite, Turbo240, [email protected]) and games I prefer playing on the GSYNC (e.g. low-latency competitive, modern games that fluctuate framerates a lot). The "perfect" monitor will continue to elude. Keep tuned!


----------



## Deadeye

I'm more curious about this:
Quote:


> It is currently a selectable choice:
> G-SYNC Mode: Better for variable framerates (eliminate stutters/tearing, more blur)
> Strobe Mode: Better for constant max framerates (e.g. 120fps @ 120Hz, eliminates blur)


If you can only chose one of these option but not both, having G-Sync is useless for me then, i personally think Lightboost is better way to go. I hope that it's posible to have these both options in same time.


----------



## bjevers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> It has been unavoidably juggled around, due to several things:
> (1) Talk to manufacturer about the issues that came up on OCN and HardForum and need more time to test/explain these issues


Really interested to hear what Eizo says. I'm about ready to return my second unit and wait for something different because of the right edge discoloration with certain colors. It's really distracting to me.


----------



## Harrywang

If I play games like CS:GO and dota 2, what monitor would suit best me for competitive? Eizo, g sync, or asus? Or is there any monitor I should hold off till?


----------



## Deadeye

From what i understand on Linus Tech Tips, you cant have G-Sync and Lightboost in same mode. you have to choose, so no point for me get G-Sync , light boost all the way. Right know i have Benq XL2411 using Lightboost with 100hz and happy with it.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deadeye*
> 
> From what i understand on Linus Tech Tips, you cant have G-Sync and Lightboost in same mode. you have to choose, so no point for me get G-Sync , light boost all the way. Right know i have Benq XL2411 using Lightboost with 100hz and happy with it.


do you notice screen tearing easier with lightboost or do you use v sync?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> do you notice screen tearing easier with lightboost or do you use v sync?


LightBoost does make it much easier to see tearing, so LightBoost looks best with VSYNC ON.

I am hoping that someday, within a few years, we can eventually combine the two.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deadeye*
> 
> I'm more curious about this:
> If you can only chose one of these option but not both, having G-Sync is useless for me then, i personally think Lightboost is better way to go. I hope that it's posible to have these both options in same time.


LightBoost brings the CRT motion clarity miracle to LCD's, but it also has its own cons too, such as color quality, as well as looking very stuttery/jittery if you don't have triple-digit frame rates. You gotta spend more $$ for a great GPU in order to make the LightBoost motion fluidity "wow" effect outweigh the LightBoost cons.

Personally I prefer GSYNC if I'm unable to match anywhere near the "one-strobe-per-frame" required for motion fluidity nirvana. Once framerates hits framerate=Hz, I begin preferring my strobe backlights (e.g. Eizo FG2421). But getting to that nirvana is insanely expensive (e.g. GTX Titan + Eizo FG2421). Even at $400, a GSYNC experience is potentially cheaper if you play new games (how are you going to get 120fps in Battlefield 4?), and it also includes the LightBoost sequel too, that John Carmack mentioned.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Harrywang*
> 
> If I play games like CS:GO and dota 2, what monitor would suit best me for competitive? Eizo, g sync, or asus? Or is there any monitor I should hold off till?


Pick your preferred poison. Extra money will help eliminate more poisons simultaneously:

If you really hate stutters:
-- $$: GSYNC; or
-- $$: VSYNC ON with powerful GPU (GTX Titan/780 SLI) to get framerate=Hz without framedrops
_VSYNC OFF adds a slight amount of microstutters, for those super-sensitive to stutters_

If you really hate tearing:
-- $$: GSYNC; or
-- $: VSYNC ON

If you really hate input lag:
-- $$: GSYNC; or
-- $: VSYNC OFF

If you really hate motion blur:
-- $$+: LightBoost, Turbo240, BENQ Blur Reduction, or other strobe backlight, plus reasonably powerful GPU

If you really hate motion blur AND tearing AND stutters
-- $$+: LightBoost + powerful GPU (GTX Titan/780 SLI) + VSYNC ON (framerate=Hz)
_Powerful GPU will limit input lag degradation of VSYNC ON to just a few milliseconds_

If you really hate motion blur AND tearing AND stutters, but want to keep bright AND colorful AND contrasty
-- $$$$: EIZO FG2421 Turbo240 + powerful GPU (GTX Titan/780 SLI) + VSYNC ON (framerate=Hz)
_Gaming Nirvana (if you have a good panel, let the monitor warm up 45 min for good picture quality & can tolerate the input lag penalty)_


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Pick your preferred poison. Extra money will help eliminate more poisons simultaneously:
> 
> If you really hate stutters:
> -- $: GSYNC; or
> -- $$: VSYNC ON with ultrafast GPU (framerate=Hz)
> 
> If you really hate tearing:
> -- $: GSYNC; or
> -- $$: VSYNC ON with ultrafast GPU (framerate=Hz)
> 
> If you really hate input lag:
> -- $: GSYNC; or
> -- $: VSYNC OFF
> 
> If you really hate motion blur:
> -- $$: LightBoost, Turbo240, BENQ Blur Reduction, or other strobe backlight, plus reasonably powerful GPU
> 
> If you really hate motion blur AND tearing AND stutters
> -- $$: LightBoost + powerful GPU (GTX Titan/780 SLI) + VSYNC ON (framerate=Hz)
> _Powerful GPU will limit input lag degradation of VSYNC ON to just a few milliseconds_
> 
> If you really hate motion blur AND tearing AND stutters, but want to keep bright AND colorful AND contrasty
> -- $$$: Turbo240 + powerful GPU (GTX Titan/780 SLI) + VSYNC ON (framerate=Hz)
> _Gaming Nirvana (if you can tolerate the input lag penalty)_


V-Sync is noticeable, I notice the input lag that AA adds.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> V-Sync is noticeable, I notice the input lag that AA adds.


It is noteworthy that *more than half of the input lag problem of VSYNC is the sudden framerate slowdowns*:
http://www.testufo.com/stutter#demo=slowdowns
Whenever you get sudden framerate slowdowns, the VSYNC ON input lag suddenly surges during those moments. That "throws" things off for me.

But if you fix *that* part of the problem of VSYNC ON by throwing money at the problem (multiple Titan's, 780's, R9 290X's, etc), the VSYNC ON problem becomes minor enough for me. I prefer the "Nintendo platformer silky smooth panning effect" when turning / strafing / panning. VSYNC OFF (even at 300fps) can never provide that for me. When I get "perfect" VSYNC ON, the remainder of the input lag is quite tolerable, especially for enjoying solo game play. It's quite possible to play through a semi-recent game, such as Bioshock Infinite at [email protected] on a single GTX Titan staying at full framerate-refreshrate locked motion 99%+ of the time at nearly Ultra settings, if you have a GTX Titan, and bump down one or two settings (e.g. Everything Ultra, except Shadows=High instead of Ultra, View Distance=High instead of Ultra). At this point, I can't notice the input lag of VSYNC ON, and since you're playing solo....

Another solution is Adaptive VSYNC. It eliminates the sudden input lag problem of sudden framerate halvings.

Now for competitive gameplay, VSYNC OFF is usually the best -- until GSYNC came along.


----------



## Harrywang

I won't be playing with v sync on. I think I hate input lag the most.

So which monitor will be the best for me? Which has the lowest input lag?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Harrywang*
> 
> I won't be playing with v sync on. I think I hate input lag the most.
> 
> So which monitor will be the best for me? Which has the lowest input lag?


That's an automatic GSYNC recommendation for you.

Going to almost anything 120Hz/144Hz reduces input lag a lot.
That said, within the models, the 120/144Hz BENQ / ASUS are the ones with the lowest input lag (real-time scanout from input to screen, no frame buffering) -- and the G-SYNC version of the VG248QE is no different, gaining the extra pros of having a superset of ASUS VG248QE 144Hz features.


----------



## Yukon Trooper

Has Carmack confirmed future strobe-light technologies will be compatible with G-Sync? I'm assuming all that would be needed is a strobe-light flicker rate that follows refresh rate as refresh rate follows fps?


----------



## Harrywang

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> That's an automatic GSYNC recommendation for you.
> 
> Going to almost anything 120Hz/144Hz reduces input lag a lot.
> That said, within the models, the 120/144Hz BENQ / ASUS are the ones with the lowest input lag (real-time scanout from input to screen, no frame buffering) -- and the G-SYNC version of the VG248QE is no different, gaining the extra pros of having a superset of ASUS VG248QE 144Hz features.


Really gsync? But you can't use lightboost for g sync though? I am playing CS GO the most so I will be needing lightboost.

Which one has lower input lag the asus or the benq? I read on your site that the benq models are better lightboost monitors because they produce better colors.

Should I get 1 of these models or just wait for better monitors to come out in the near future?


----------



## JustinSane

I've been reading a lot of conflicting things and I just want clarification: Does having G-Sync on mean more, less, or no change in input lag at all compared to no v/g-sync?

Does that make sense?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Harrywang*
> 
> Really gsync? But you can't use lightboost for g sync though? I am playing CS GO the most so I will be needing lightboost.


Didn't know LightBoost was important -- you said input lag was the most important? LightBoost is great, as long as you're OK with the extra ~4ms of input latency that strobing requires. It'll still be far less than 60Hz, and you can still turn off LightBoost, too. If you are using an NVIDIA card anyway, the GSYNC monitors already includes the LightBoost sequel, so you can choose.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Harrywang*
> 
> Which one has lower input lag the asus or the benq? I read on your site that the benq models are better lightboost monitors because they produce better colors.


That's right. It's always the dilemma -- buy now or wait. If you're using AMD, then you won't benefitting from GSYNC, so go ahead and buy the BENQ. Then again, if you don't anticipate playing newer games (variable frame rates) or non-LightBoost, then you might not want to wait for GSYNC.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Harrywang*
> 
> Should I get 1 of these models or just wait for better monitors to come out in the near future?


It's a decision one needs to make themselves, though there's possibly good reasons to wait, depending on your needs.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> I've been reading a lot of conflicting things and I just want clarification: Does having G-Sync on mean more, less, or no change in input lag at all compared to no v/g-sync?


During GSYNC rate of 30fps-144fps, GSYNC is the same as VSYNC OFF, within a 1ms difference (the GSYNC poll time).

When you cap-out at 144fps, the input lag diverges. The monitor finally begins waiting. There's slightly less lag during VSYNC OFF 300fps than GSYNC 144fps, for example. But if you never play games at 300fps, that's not going to be important to you.

Let's for instance, take Quake Live, a game that runs at 125fps capped internally. In that game, there wouldn't be significant difference. So when playing Quake Live, at 125fps capped:

VSYNC ON:
- Quake Live renders frame
- Quake Live **WAITS** for vsync. Input lag occurs.
- Monitor displays frame

VSYNC OFF
- Quake Live renders frame
- Monitor immediately displays frame, mid-scan (splice!), creating tear

GSYNC
- Quake Live renders frame
- Monitor immediately displays frame, with new refresh cycle beginning *immediately* at the top edge, no tear.

____

The non-waiting frame rates of GSYNC is 30fps-144fps. Below 30fps, there's the re-refresh (like a DRAM self-refresh cycle) to prevent the screen from going stale. Above 144fps, you end up waiting for the previous refresh to finish, before displaying the new refresh.

In the range (30-144), there's only about ~1ms difference between GSYNC and VSYNC OFF during this frame rate range. If you never cap-out at 144fps, you don't have any waiting occuring. If you try to send more than 144fps in GSYNC mode, input lag differences does diverge because the monitor refreshes faster. But during 30fps through 144fps, there's almost no measurable latency difference between GSYNC and VSYNC OFF (~1ms, for the "is-the-monitor-ready" poll).

GSYNC actually doesn't have a regular VSYNC per se, since it's asynchronous rather than SYNChronous, so it's really actually a special kind of VSYNC OFF (that visually looks like VSYNC ON!) -- because the monitor will start refreshing *immediately* at the top edge (no tearline) rather than *immediately* in mid-scan (tearline occurs). So during 30fps-144fps range, it combines the pros of VSYNC OFF and VSYNC ON, without the cons of either. The "300fps+" players may still prefer VSYNC OFF if they love the extra few milliseconds -- the good news is GSYNC monitors support all three modes (VSYNC ON -and- VSYNC OFF -and- GSYNC).

.......

Now, let's give the situation, you're wanting to run an older game such as Counterstrike: GO or some game capable of 300fps or thereabouts.

Above 144fps, the input lag diverges between GSYNC and VSYNC OFF only because GSYNC has a 144fps framerate cap. Once you hit 144fps, it has to finally start waiting for the monitor to finish the previous refresh (much like waiting for VSYNC), so now it behaves like 144fps=144Hz VSYNC ON. Even so, this is more harmless than VSYNC ON because when framerate slows down during GSYNC below 144fps (e.g. 143fps), it will never suddenly halve to 72fps -- it will gracefully slow down. None of the jarring input lag change of sudden frame rate halvings. It is like driving a car with a continuously variable transmission (CVT), rather than a gear shifting effect. You don't feel/hear/notice gear effects. I can't tell apart 142fps, 143fps or 144fps. You do get less input lag at 300fps VSYNC OFF than 144fps VSYNC OFF, but GSYNC doesn't let you go 300fps. Even so, the theoretical maximum input lag divergence between GSYNC and VSYNC OFF is a theoretical 6.9 milliseconds (1/144sec) plus the GSYNC poll time (~1ms), if you successfully get infinite-framerate VSYNC OFF (which is impossible). In the real world, the average input lag diverence of 288fps VSYNC OFF relative to 144fps GSYNC would mathematically be an average of 1/288th of a second difference (only 1/288sec = 3.4 milliseconds extra lag (+ 1ms poll) for GSYNC 144fps versus VSYNC OFF 288fps). Most gamers, except the uber-elite competitive gamers, would not even care about that.

Even with elite competitive gamers, it doesn't matter with Quake Live....It is limited to 125fps so that's below the GSYNC cap. And when you play Battlefield 4, you ain't getting 300fps, either. Since most of the modern games you play, will not cap-out at 144fps, realistically, you won't be hitting the GSYNC 144fps limit. And 144fps isn't necessarily the final frontier for GSYNC monitors later this decade...

No idea about whether GSYNC completely mask microstutters from driver issues, but it will almost certainly reduce them at least somewhat (the monitor would cease to amplify microstutters).


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> snip


Thanks for the detailed response







. You are awesome.

I'm mainly worried about competitive fps. I'm very sensitive to input lag. I barely ever notice/bothered by screen tearing. I am sensitive to frame dips and stutters, so I'm torn. I'm thinking I'm just gonna wait for g-sync to get a new monitor anyway.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Tell your friends to stop being Nvidia fanboys and sell their TITANS for getting the real deal: 4 x R9 290X quad Crossfire - cheapper than TITAN with a little more horsepower and WAY-BETTER DRIVERS!


Are there any monitors that run (currently or in the near future) lightboost without requiring Nvidia graphics cards?

EDIT: G-SYNC isn't Nvidia dependent too is it?


----------



## Harrywang

Thanks mdrejohn for such helpful responses! Yeah I am planning on using lightboost because of how great it seems =D. So my question is which lightboost monitor has the lowest input? (sorry if I didn't make it clear)

I am using a nvidia GPU and probably won't be using gysync at all since you can't use lightboost. Again i'll be primarily playing CS GO where motion clarity is very very important as you will see the enemies much faster then they will see yuo.

Is there any monitors that are coming out that I should be looking out for?

I would get the EIZO but it cost way to much + it has higher input lag then most lightboost monitors.


----------



## kskwerl

Can anyone recommend me the best upgrade over the ASUS VG248QE? something that would be hands down better in every way without going over 600$?

I play dota 2 and skyrim LOL


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kskwerl*
> 
> Can anyone recommend me the best upgrade over the ASUS VG248QE? something that would be hands down better in every way without going over 600$?
> 
> I play dota 2 and skyrim LOL


Eizo FG2421


----------



## kskwerl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> Eizo FG2421


vs the ASUS how much of an overall difference in quality will I see? Will I be blown away in comparison?


----------



## TiezZ BE

only thing i can come up with is the Eizo FG2421 but there are some problems with it according to many users. Check the thread of that monitor and it's not better in every way, if i'm not mistaken the asus is little bit more responsive (mdrejhon knows more about this). I think you're looking for something that hasn't been inventend yet....


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kskwerl*
> 
> vs the ASUS how much of an overall difference in quality will I see? Will I be blown away in comparison?


Better colors, viewing angles, contrast, deep black levels. Order from a place with agood return policy since some people have had problems with them; personaly mine is flawless and games look stunning.


----------



## Deadeye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> LightBoost brings the CRT motion clarity miracle to LCD's, but it also has its own cons too, such as color quality, as well as looking very stuttery/jittery if you don't have triple-digit frame rates. You gotta spend more $$ for a great GPU in order to make the LightBoost motion fluidity "wow" effect outweigh the LightBoost cons.
> 
> Personally I prefer GSYNC if I'm unable to match anywhere near the "one-strobe-per-frame" required for motion fluidity nirvana. Once framerates hits framerate=Hz, I begin preferring my strobe backlights (e.g. Eizo FG2421). But getting to that nirvana is insanely expensive (e.g. GTX Titan + Eizo FG2421). Even at $400, a GSYNC experience is potentially cheaper if you play new games (how are you going to get 120fps in Battlefield 4?), and it also includes the LightBoost sequel too, that John Carmack mentioned.
> Pick your preferred poison. Extra money will help eliminate more poisons simultaneously:
> 
> If you really hate stutters:
> -- $$: GSYNC; or
> -- $$: VSYNC ON with powerful GPU (GTX Titan/780 SLI) to get framerate=Hz without framedrops
> _VSYNC OFF adds a slight amount of microstutters, for those super-sensitive to stutters_
> 
> If you really hate tearing:
> -- $$: GSYNC; or
> -- $: VSYNC ON
> 
> If you really hate input lag:
> -- $$: GSYNC; or
> -- $: VSYNC OFF
> 
> If you really hate motion blur:
> -- $$+: LightBoost, Turbo240, BENQ Blur Reduction, or other strobe backlight, plus reasonably powerful GPU
> 
> If you really hate motion blur AND tearing AND stutters
> -- $$+: LightBoost + powerful GPU (GTX Titan/780 SLI) + VSYNC ON (framerate=Hz)
> _Powerful GPU will limit input lag degradation of VSYNC ON to just a few milliseconds_
> 
> If you really hate motion blur AND tearing AND stutters, but want to keep bright AND colorful AND contrasty
> -- $$$$: EIZO FG2421 Turbo240 + powerful GPU (GTX Titan/780 SLI) + VSYNC ON (framerate=Hz)
> _Gaming Nirvana (if you have a good panel, let the monitor warm up 45 min for good picture quality & can tolerate the input lag penalty)_


Thanks, well in the future i'm looking for 27inch 1440p. I'm doing photo work so now have Dell u2412m and BenQ XL2411T. Colours on Benq is just horrible when comparing to Dell, even after calibrating with Spider3 and basICColor display 5. I'm just hoping in the future there will be PLS/IPS or similar panel for photo work and gaming 144hz. Just thinking where to go with G-Sync or Lightboost


----------



## Rickles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Are there any monitors that run (currently or in the near future) lightboost without requiring Nvidia graphics cards?
> 
> EDIT: G-SYNC isn't Nvidia dependent too is it?


There is a list on blurbusters, or google toastyX lightboost. I am running lightboost on a Benq XL2420TE with a pair of 7970s and loving it.


----------



## Jack Mac

Lightboost via ToastyX works flawlessly on my 290. Not sure if g-sync will come to AMD but idc, I don't mind tearing.


----------



## Soulfire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> LightBoost is great, as long as you're OK with the extra ~4ms of input latency that strobing requires. It'll still be far less than 60Hz.


Hey mdrejhon, this particular part of your post interested me, as a current user of a ****ty 60hz ASUS monitor who is delaying a purchase on the Eizo due to input lag concerns. I'm fine with the input lag that I have now; does that mean that, most likely, the Eizo running at 120hz strobing will have less input lag than my 60hz ASUS VG248H-P?


----------



## mutantmagnet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soulfire*
> 
> Hey mdrejhon, this particular part of your post interested me, as a current user of a ****ty 60hz ASUS monitor who is delaying a purchase on the Eizo due to input lag concerns. I'm fine with the input lag that I have now; does that mean that, most likely, the Eizo running at 120hz strobing will have less input lag than my 60hz ASUS VG248H-P?


Yes. That is what he said in a roundabout way.


----------



## kskwerl

What kind of ICC profile should I be using using lightboost on the Asus ASUS VG248QE and monitor settings etc? I feel like something is off


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Harrywang*
> 
> I would get the EIZO but it has higher input lag then most lightboost monitors.


Really? Source?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kskwerl*
> 
> Can anyone recommend me the best upgrade over the ASUS VG248QE? something that would be hands down better in every way without going over 600$?
> 
> I play dota 2 and skyrim LOL


From here:
Quote:


> Chief Blur Buster says:
> November 9, 2013 at 6:09 pm
> 
> The newer XL2420TE is currently the best LightBoost monitor for 24″ LightBoost quality. On the other hand, the VG248QE is upgradeable to GSYNC. Or you can also wait for one of any of the upcoming strobe-backlight monitors (G-SYNC low-persistence strobe mode, or EIZO FG2421 Turbo240 Mode, or BENQ Blur Reduction Mode), all of which will almost certainly have superior colors to typical LightBoost monitors.
> 
> There's always a perpetual debate between waiting and buying today - always a personal decision: Buy now or wait?


I went through the EIZO FG2421 240 thread and it seems like many many people have problems with that monitor. It also costs about $600. You could chance buying it and try to do RMA's if you get a faulty one, or you could wait till they release a v2.


----------



## CYBER-SNIPA

I have had my three FG2421's for nearly a week now and boy my eyes have never been loved so much. The picture quality, clarity and depth of colours are just amazing. Gaming wise the motion blur tech is just stunning. All three of mine were manufactured in Japan on 02/10/13. Which means that we're seeing these Japanese made screens in the EU as well now. All have no back bleed, hatching or ghosting as yet, so it looks like the have improved their quality control and initial teething problems too!!!

Also I am not getting any input lag at all, they seem just as responsive as my old Asus VE278Q every was. So I just dunno what all this input lag fuss is about? *But to get the best out of these bad boys, you must have them all connected via the Display Port outlet.* If not then the advanced features do not work and the screen functions as a 60Htz panel. Which may explain why other users have been experiencing problems with them. They may be a bit more expensive than other monitors, but just like everything in life, quality does not come cheap. And owning the best brings added satisfaction to the users experience!!!


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CYBER-SNIPA*
> 
> *But to get the best out of these bad boys, you must have them all connected via the Display Port outlet.* If not then the advanced features do not work and the screen functions as a 60Htz panel.


I'm connected by DVI, and am getting all the advanced features. You just must make sure you're using dual-link DVI, and sometimes the graphics cards have two DVI ports (one of them that don't work at 120Hz).

Glad to know you like your FG2421!


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Really? Source?


prad, TFTCentral and I have measured the input lag of Turbo240 similiarly as 18-19ms.

Here's a quote from the blurbusters site:
Quote:


> With photodiode oscillscope (time measured from Direct3D Present() to first light hitting photodiode) -- I've measured 11ms average for LightBoost and 19ms average for Turbo240. They are pretty good compared to the 60Hz alternative, however. And the color quality of Turbo240 is significantly better, much brighter, and is prefered if you really like the LightBoost effect.
> 
> Incidentially, for LightBoost, this is in comparision to 7ms lag average (~3ms for top edge of screen, ~7ms for middle, ~11ms for bottom edge of screen) for non-LightBoost. So LightBoost only has about ~4ms of extra input lag over non-LightBoost on the same monitor.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> prad, TFTCentral and I have measured the input lag of Turbo240 similiarly as 18-19ms.
> 
> Here's a quote from the blurbusters site:


Hmm, I don't know how much monitor input lag would effect me, but I do know that the difference between 5ms & 20ms latency in some online games can be pretty significant... then if you add 20ms on top of that...

Would you even recommend the Ezio for people who play competitive FPS games? This plus all the problems people are having with their Ezio's (not to mention the $600 price tag) is making me think I should just go with the next monitor that comes out with native lightboost...


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Above 144fps, the input lag diverges between GSYNC and VSYNC OFF only because GSYNC has a 144fps framerate cap. Once you hit 144fps, it has to finally start waiting for the monitor to finish the previous refresh (much like waiting for VSYNC), so now it behaves like 144fps=144Hz VSYNC ON. Even so, this is more harmless than VSYNC ON because when framerate slows down during GSYNC below 144fps (e.g. 143fps), it will never suddenly halve to 72fps -- it will gracefully slow down. None of the jarring input lag change of sudden frame rate halvings. It is like driving a car with a continuously variable transmission (CVT), rather than a gear shifting effect. You don't feel/hear/notice gear effects. I can't tell apart 142fps, 143fps or 144fps. You do get less input lag at 300fps VSYNC OFF than 144fps VSYNC OFF, but GSYNC doesn't let you go 300fps. Even so, the theoretical maximum input lag divergence between GSYNC and VSYNC OFF is a theoretical 6.9 milliseconds (1/144sec) plus the GSYNC poll time (~1ms), if you successfully get infinite-framerate VSYNC OFF (which is impossible). In the real world, the average input lag diverence of 288fps VSYNC OFF relative to 144fps GSYNC would mathematically be an average of 1/288th of a second difference (only 1/288sec = 3.4 milliseconds extra lag (+ 1ms poll) for GSYNC 144fps versus VSYNC OFF 288fps). Most gamers, except the uber-elite competitive gamers, would not even care about that.
> 
> Even with elite competitive gamers, it doesn't matter with Quake Live....It is limited to 125fps so that's below the GSYNC cap. And when you play Battlefield 4, you ain't getting 300fps, either. Since most of the modern games you play, will not cap-out at 144fps, realistically, you won't be hitting the GSYNC 144fps limit. And 144fps isn't necessarily the final frontier for GSYNC monitors later this decade...
> 
> No idea about whether GSYNC completely mask microstutters from driver issues, but it will almost certainly reduce them at least somewhat (the monitor would cease to amplify microstutters).


so 144Hz G Sync is the limit, but that's ok right? Like it's really 145Hz that is too much, 144Hz will still work just as good as say 143 or 120Hz right?


----------



## ds84

I added in strobelight into the startup folder frm my start menu. But it still does not activate at startup. What else can i do? Or do i have to throw everything in? I only threw the lightbulb icon only.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> so 144Hz G Sync is the limit, but that's ok right? Like it's really 145Hz that is too much, 144Hz will still work just as good as say 143 or 120Hz right?


More-or-less, yes.

However, attempting to do 145fps on GSYNC, would only be a tiny difference between 1/145sec and 1/144sec = (6.993ms minus 6.944ms) = only a ~49 microsecond GPU latency difference between 145fps and 144fps. So it's not too harmful to latency to attempt to try to exceed by a few frames per second. Latency difference grows the bigger the FPS goes between VSYNC OFF versus GSYNC.

That said, if you want to set a maximum fps in your game (e.g. fps_max), I suggest a slightly lower value like fps_max 142 or fps_max 143, to give some headroom below the monitor's maximum rate.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ds84*
> 
> I added in strobelight into the startup folder frm my start menu. But it still does not activate at startup. What else can i do? Or do i have to throw everything in? I only threw the lightbulb icon only.


Hmm. This is a support question that should be asked on ToastyX's forum (monitortests.com), but try running it manually first. Windows SmartScreen may have something to do with it, if you're using Windows 8.


----------



## ds84

I can run it normally, and am using wins 7 HE 64-bit. Sometimes, i see it being setup during startup. Other times, it was report to have no strobelight.


----------



## JackNaylorPE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kskwerl*
> 
> What kind of ICC profile should I be using using lightboost on the Asus ASUS VG248QE and monitor settings etc? I feel like something is off


http://pcmonitors.info/reviews/asus-vg248qe

NVidia - http://pcmonitors.info/icc/ASUS%20VG248QE%20Nvidia.icm
AMD - http://pcmonitors.info/icc/ASUS%20VG248QE%20AMD.icm
Quote:


> 1) Download the appropriate ICC profile below and save it to a suitable place -
> 
> 2) Set the monitor to 'Standard Mode' at 144Hz. The following settings were used to create the profiles but feel free to adjust if necessary -
> 
> Splendid= Standard Mode
> 
> Brightness= 24 (gave 160 cd/m2 on our unit, adjust as required)
> 
> Contrast= 75
> 
> Color Temp= User Mode
> 
> Red= 100
> 
> Green= 90
> 
> Blue= 89
> 
> 3) Follow these instructions on how to activate the ICC profile. In that article you'll also find a link to download a useful and very small utility called 'Display Profile' which you can use to toggle between ICC profiles. This is useful if you want to switch to default colour settings (essentially no ICC profile active) when running certain applications (games etc.) that don't use the profiles properly.


http://pcmonitors.info/articles/using-icc-profiles-in-windows


----------



## CYBER-SNIPA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> I'm connected by DVI, and am getting all the advanced features. You just must make sure you're using dual-link DVI, and sometimes the graphics cards have two DVI ports (one of them that don't work at 120Hz).
> 
> Glad to know you like your FG2421!


I guess my old DVI cable is not dual link? So I've ordered a new one just to test it all out!!! LOL









Q. Is there an easy way to test the frequency/signal strength of cables???

And when's that FG2421 review coming out, your loyal fan-base eagerly awaits!!!


----------



## JackNaylorPE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CYBER-SNIPA*
> 
> I guess my old DVI cable is not dual link? So I've ordered a new one just to test it all out!!! LOL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Q. Is there an easy way to test the frequency/signal strength of cables???
> 
> And when's that FG2421 review coming out, your loyal fan-base eagerly awaits!!!


Dual Link cables generally come with the 120/144 Hz monitors


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Personally I prefer GSYNC if I'm unable to match anywhere near the "one-strobe-per-frame" required for motion fluidity nirvana. Once framerates hits framerate=Hz, I begin preferring my strobe backlights (e.g. Eizo FG2421). But getting to that nirvana is insanely expensive (e.g. GTX Titan + Eizo FG2421). Even at $400, a GSYNC experience is potentially cheaper if you play new games (*how are you going to get 120fps in Battlefield 4?*), and it also includes the LightBoost sequel too, that John Carmack mentioned.


This is how:



Minimum FPS never dips below 123 even in 64man servers with a single 680 at 1300/7000

Over 50 Fraps 180s FPS captures I've only seen 117 once.

Minimum FPS is actually higher if I remove my 125FPS cap through game console.
Also the card runs cooler with cap since I'm never at 100% usage. And since it's a lightning, the LN2 BIOS keeps my GPU clocks locked, they don't jump around.

When I'm scanning my screen for headshots at Mach 3 my brain phases out graphics details. It's just scanning for geometric shapes like head and torso continuously. When you play at a high level, the moment you stop scanning to admire the scenery, you die. I'm not trying to sound like an elitist but this is what actually happens.
As such GFX are not needed for twitch games in my experience.

RTS is completely different, I spend most of my time planning and get to enjoy the GFX etc. But also in those games 120FPS at 120hz strobed is not needed.
Battlelog: udovoodoo


----------



## reqq

Ye exactly Scorpion667. Thats how people how done since the dawn of games lol. Also when mantle is out you prolly only need a 7970 to reach steady 120 fps. Mantle is out "soon" according to an AMD employe.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reqq*
> 
> Ye exactly Scorpion667. Thats how people how done since the dawn of games lol. Also when mantle is out you prolly only need a 7970 to reach steady 120 fps. Mantle is out "soon" according to an AMD employe.


Hey actually the 7970 already out performs most 680's in BF4 already. I am guessing after Mantle, the 7970 would trade blows with the 780.

Kind of regret not going AMD since Nvidia drivers have very high DPC latency. But once I stop being lazy and install my damn waterblock I doubt many 7970's will come close to my 680 at 1400Mhz.

Subjectively, 120FPS @ 120hz with Lightboost is the best gaming experience I've ever had, hands down. Feels so fluid. Unfortunately I'll have to buy a new monitor at some point as I'm starting to notice the XL2420T's flaws more and more. Inverse ghosting and sometimes trailing.

After reading many Eizo reviews they do seem amazing, don't get me wrong but the VG248QE with Lightboost is a better pick for my needs. Lower input lag at the cost of significantly worse colors and contrast than the Eizo. Even without looking at the price, it's an obvious choice to me. I just have to get Vega to remove the matte coating for me and I'll be set. Too broke now though, stupid holidays =P


----------



## Deadeye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Hmm. This is a support question that should be asked on ToastyX's forum (monitortests.com), but try running it manually first. Windows SmartScreen may have something to do with it, if you're using Windows 8.


What do you think can you do photo work with Eizo at Turbo 240hz compared to Dell U2412M?


----------



## CYBER-SNIPA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackNaylorPE*
> 
> Dual Link cables generally come with the 120/144 Hz monitors


Hence why I don't have one, but from tomorrow I surely will!!! LOL


----------



## Harrywang

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Hey actually the 7970 already out performs most 680's in BF4 already. I am guessing after Mantle, the 7970 would trade blows with the 780.
> 
> Kind of regret not going AMD since Nvidia drivers have very high DPC latency. But once I stop being lazy and install my damn waterblock I doubt many 7970's will come close to my 680 at 1400Mhz.
> 
> Subjectively, 120FPS @ 120hz with Lightboost is the best gaming experience I've ever had, hands down. Feels so fluid. Unfortunately I'll have to buy a new monitor at some point as I'm starting to notice the XL2420T's flaws more and more. Inverse ghosting and sometimes trailing.
> 
> After reading many Eizo reviews they do seem amazing, don't get me wrong but the VG248QE with Lightboost is a better pick for my needs. Lower input lag at the cost of significantly worse colors and contrast than the Eizo. Even without looking at the price, it's an obvious choice to me. I just have to get Vega to remove the matte coating for me and I'll be set. Too broke now though, stupid holidays =P


Hi, I am looking for the lowest 120hz monitor. does the vg24qe have the lowest input lag out of all the 120hz+ monitors? And yeah where I live the asus is the lowest priced 120hz+ monitor.


----------



## Hefner

Is sufficient vram important for 120hz output? What is recommended?


----------



## JackNaylorPE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CYBER-SNIPA*
> 
> Hence why I don't have one, but from tomorrow I surely will!!! LOL


Well that's generally the only reason to ya need a dual link cable ..... cause ya using 120/144 .... lotts times peeps keep using the one they got cuz its already hooked up tot he back of their PC .... and than call Tech Support for an RMA cuz it wont do 120 Hz.


----------



## CYBER-SNIPA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackNaylorPE*
> 
> Well that's generally the only reason to ya need a dual link cable ..... cause ya using 120/144 .... lotts times peeps keep using the one they got cuz its already hooked up tot he back of their PC .... and than call Tech Support for an RMA cuz it wont do 120 Hz.


LLLOOOLLLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I think using the Display Port is better and offers a higher bandwidth. So for my surround/dual SLi setup, it will be the first card powering the center screen via DP. And the second card powering the outer 2 screens, via DP and DVI-D!!!


----------



## Falkentyne

mdrejhon, hows the Bent XL2470z (or was that 2420z) coming along?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> mdrejhon, hows the Bent XL2470z (or was that 2420z) coming along?


The XL2720Z that I have is currently a beta unit that needs a firmware upgrade. I'm waiting on BENQ for the firmware upgrade before I post a review (they have asked me to wait). It won't be till January, they say.







... For now, NVIDIA also unexpectedly gave me a few G-SYNC boards as a giveaway (which you noticed already on the Blur Busters site), plus the related responsibilities are also tying up a lot of my time.

And I've got a job too -- not related to graphics/displays -- ouch!

So the XL2720Z review, realistically, isn't this month.


----------



## crun

Is there any date when G-SYNC ASUS VG248QE are coming to the market?


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Sorry if this has been asked already. Should we be expecting IPS G-SYNC monitors next year or is it only TN atm?


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Sorry if this has been asked already. Should we be expecting IPS G-SYNC monitors next year or is it only TN atm?


No one knows. Next year they are going to announce all their future plans for GSync.

Hopefully there will be. Would love to see GSync on a PA246Q...


----------



## JackNaylorPE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Sorry if this has been asked already. Should we be expecting IPS G-SYNC monitors next year or is it only TN atm?


I'm by no means sure, but IIRC blurbusters estimated maybe 2 years.....dunno the source of the information but that sticks in my head.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> No one knows. Next year they are going to announce all their future plans for GSync.
> 
> Hopefully there will be. Would love to see GSync on a PA246Q...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackNaylorPE*
> 
> I'm by no means sure, but IIRC blurbusters estimated maybe 2 years.....dunno the source of the information but that sticks in my head.


Ah ok







, thanks







DIY mod chip it is then


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackNaylorPE*
> 
> I'm by no means sure, but IIRC blurbusters estimated maybe 2 years.....dunno the source of the information but that sticks in my head.


IIRC, it was mentioned as either 2014 or 2015. Still a quite a while of waiting, it may not be 2 years, but it is several months at the absolute minimum. R&D often takes that long.


----------



## crun

What about G-SYNC 27" ? When should we expect it? First quarter of 2014 I hope?
My face is exactly 1m away from the monitor so 1080p should be definitely ok.

Also is display from Asus VG278HE any worse from the one in VG248QE? Can I mod it with the G-Sync myself (like with the VG248QE)?


----------



## VettePilot

Is it worth buying a Gsync modded asus 248qe right now or wait until they start coming from monitor manufacturers with it already installed?


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Topgearfan*
> 
> Is it worth buying a Gsync modded asus 248qe right now or wait until they start coming from monitor manufacturers with it already installed?


Wait b/c it will be cheaper IIRC.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Kind of regret not going AMD since Nvidia drivers have very high DPC latency.


wait what I thought that was AMD drivers that had that problem? Please elaborate as I was considering getting a GTX 800 series card for G Sync in 2014.


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> wait what I thought that was AMD drivers that had that problem? Please elaborate as I was considering getting a GTX 800 series card for G Sync in 2014.


Huh. I have a GTX 770 with the latest NVIDIA drivers and I'm getting between 5-20 milliseconds of DPC latency (minus the 1 millisecond Windows 8 bug in the checker utility).


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ikjadoon*
> 
> Huh. I have a GTX 770 with the latest NVIDIA drivers and I'm getting between 5-20 milliseconds of DPC latency (minus the 1 millisecond Windows 8 bug in the checker utility).


Well I remember the news section in OCN was having a field day a year ago about how bad AMD drivers were and latency and micro stuttering and such


----------



## manicmonkey

Can someone help me with an issue with Toasty Strobelight? No matter what I do I cant change to non-strobed mode except if I pull the plug out of my monitor. Even after running the strobelight setup and adding 120/100hz strobed, 121/101hz non strobed, when I reboot the refresh rates arent installed and it only shows the default 59, 60, 100, 120hz in available refresh rates :S Also when I right click on strobelight, strobing off option is greyed out. Any thoughts?

Edit: just realised it was running an older version of the program which has bugs in it, hangover logic fail lol


----------



## SeanJ76

I love my 2420TE, have had it for about 4 weeks now. The Lightboost is a fantastic feature, just have to make adjustments to the black levels to counter the Lightboost effect. I used a add on called _Strobelight-beta_ to adjust the Lightboost setting.
http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Strobelight-LightBoost-Utility-for-AMD-ATI-and-NVIDIA

As far as the color calibration goes you can enable DDC/CI technology through BenQ's menu, and adjust the colors through the Nvidia control panel via the graphic cards, or through the regular menu options. Also I recommend using a light weight color calibration add on called *ScreenBright*

http://www.softpedia.com/get/Desktop-Enhancements/Other-Desktop-Enhancements/ScreenBright.shtml


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> Well I remember the news section in OCN was having a field day a year ago about how bad AMD drivers were and latency and micro stuttering and such


Right...I have no idea what that person above saw high DPC latency with NVIDIA's drivers.


----------



## senna89

G-Synch module will be plugged in all monitors ?

Who should I contact to for it ?


----------



## TiezZ BE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> G-Synch module will be plugged in all monitors ?
> 
> Who should I contact to for it ?


Nope, just the vg248qe so far.


----------



## senna89

i speak about the stand alone kit


----------



## TiezZ BE

I was talking about the same thing if you meant the DIY kit


----------



## Pheozero

Any word on the XL2420Z/2720Z? Pricing, availability, ect...?


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pheozero*
> 
> Any word on the XL2420Z/2720Z? Pricing, availability, ect...?


when Benq will show the Gsynch edition of XL2420 ?


----------



## RyuVsJaquio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pheozero*
> 
> Any word on the XL2420Z/2720Z? Pricing, availability, ect...?


No details on price as of yet but the tentative release date is Mid January for the 2720Z. 2420Z sometime after that.


----------



## Pheozero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyuVsJaquio*
> 
> No details on price as of yet but the tentative release date is Mid January for the 2720Z. 2420Z sometime after that.


Thanks.


----------



## hamzta09

Is lightboost "safe" to run 24/7 or will it damage the monitor in any way?


----------



## karkee

I am doubting between getting an asus with gsync or the eizo foris fg2421 :/ Any advice?


----------



## ikjadoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzta09*
> 
> Is lightboost "safe" to run 24/7 or will it damage the monitor in any way?


Safe. Lightboost is just 3D mode, which all of these monitors are certified for, but just without the glasses.


----------



## Shogon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzta09*
> 
> Is lightboost "safe" to run 24/7 or will it damage the monitor in any way?


Yes it is safe. It's a feature in the monitor for 3D use, it's not the same as overclocking the monitor to get higher refresh. Least I don't imagine so.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karkee*
> 
> I am doubting between getting an asus with gsync or the eizo foris fg2421 :/ Any advice?


Tough one. The Asus+G-Sync will be cheaper vs. the Eizo, but if it were me I'd try and get the Eizo. The VA panel would give you better colors, contrast, no viewing angle distortion, but it costs a lot and some have experienced issues with it. I would still take the chance if I didn't have the Asus monitors in surround, some days I am annoyed by the contrast difference.

Also for some reason I can't get Lightboost to work with the strobelight beta with surround on, when I do it only shows 1 monitor and disables the other 2. If I set it to surround first, do the steps for the strobelight program, instead of "activate all displays", I just get black screens on boot after the windows logo resulting in a restart to safe mode and deleting strobelight.

I'm using 320.49 like I always have, DP cables on all 3 monitors, this happened to me before but I think having all my windows updates fixed it. This is a new windows format so hopefully I can find out the issue. Someone else mentioned the same issue I'm having on Toasty's forum, but he's unable to replicate the issue for now.


----------



## karkee

The do it yourself kit for the asus is already available right? I guess I can gamble once with the Eizo :>


----------



## Shogon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karkee*
> 
> The do it yourself kit for the asus is already available right? I guess I can gamble once with the Eizo :>


http://www.blurbusters.com/nvidia-confirms-diy-gsync-kits/

Sometime in January is when we will have the DIY kits. You can always wait till they release, I'm just not that good at waiting.


----------



## Concept_357

I'm looking for a new monitor for gaming and i don't want to read through the entire thread again







.

Is there a consensus yet on which monitor is the best for competitive gaming?

Looks like the Eizo strikes the best balance between performance and color, but it costs twice as much as the Asus VG248QE.

Also I heard different lightboost monitors experience varying motion clarity, with the 248 having the most amount of motion blur.

Will I notice a difference? Is it worth it to buy a more expensive BenQ? Should I wait for the G-sync VG248? GODDAMMIT SO MANY OPTIONS.


----------



## JackNaylorPE

The 248 is outstanding, one of the top performers w/ Lightboost and it's G-Sync compatible (with the aftermarket card). Not a monitor for photo editing but I'd not want anything else for gaming.

The BenQ uses the same panel as is the Asus but is subject to ghosting

http://pcmonitors.info/others/benq-xl2411t-vs-asus-vg248qe


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackNaylorPE*
> 
> The 248 is outstanding, one of the top performers w/ Lightboost and it's G-Sync compatible (with the aftermarket card). Not a monitor for photo editing but I'd not want anything else for gaming.
> 
> The BenQ uses the same panel as is the Asus but is subject to ghosting
> 
> http://pcmonitors.info/others/benq-xl2411t-vs-asus-vg248qe


I have zero _noticable_ ghosting even without lightboost on the 2420T(e)


----------



## JackNaylorPE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzta09*
> 
> I have zero _noticable_ ghosting even without lightboost on the 2420T(e)


The article is comparing the VG248QE and the XL2411T which uses the same panel. Also , as the above linked review says, some peeps are more sensitive to it than others. Does your model also use the same RTC modes ? If so, seems the same would apply.
Quote:


> Even with this intermediate mode it was clear that the overdrive on the BenQ is very aggressive and as such you get RTC (Response Time Compensation) errors and artifacts such as inverse ghosting.
> 
> LightBoost aside, the ASUS does have a slight edge here in that it has more flexible pixel overdrive options. In its intermediate settings it maintains excellent pixel responsiveness and very low levels of 'conventional trailing', whilst suffering from less inverse ghosting than the BenQ (AMA High or Premium). Not all users are bothered by this, though.


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzta09*
> 
> I have zero _noticable_ ghosting even without lightboost on the 2420T(e)


That is the key thing. The inverse ghosting (RTC errors) referred to in my review are very difficult to notice on the BenQ XL series. Most users don't notice they exist, some do notice them occasionally and find them too faint to be bothersome whilst a minority do find them bothersome. There is also a comparison between the VG248QE and XL2420TE which is worth looking at here.


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackNaylorPE*
> 
> The article is comparing the VG248QE and the XL2411T which uses the same panel. Also , as the above linked review says, some peeps are more sensitive to it than others. Does your model also use the same RTC modes ? If so, seems the same would apply.


RTC, by that, you mean the AMA? If so, then I believe so. I run mine at High, which is the default setting.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> That is the key thing. The inverse ghosting (RTC errors) referred to in my review are very difficult to notice on the BenQ XL series. Most users don't notice they exist, some do notice them occasionally and find them too faint to be bothersome whilst a minority do find them bothersome. There is also a comparison between the VG248QE and XL2420TE which is worth looking at here.


I had excessive ghosting on my old GW2750HM (VA Panel) and going from that to this, theres literally none on this one.
http://www.testufo.com/#test=ghosting

though, there are some minor trailing or whatever, looking at this:
http://www.testufo.com/#test=blurtrail

But very minor, barely any if you follow the lines with your eyes.


----------



## PCM2

Absolutely - they're nothing like strong 'conventional trailing' OR 'inverse ghosting' that you'd see on some other monitors. The PixPerAn images definitely makes it look worse than it is. I'll make sure to note this more clearly in the comparison article.


----------



## JackNaylorPE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> That is the key thing. The inverse ghosting (RTC errors) referred to in my review are very difficult to notice on the BenQ XL series. Most users don't notice they exist, some do notice them occasionally and find them too faint to be bothersome whilst a minority do find them bothersome..


With the lack of brick and mortar availability, not to mention the crappy lighting conditions and oversaturated profiles general chosen by store managers, It's unfortunate that we don't know what group we are in until the brown truck delivers the box and we set it up.


----------



## Rickles

I can notice ghosting on my XL2420TE if I am actively looking for it (like on the blur busters site) but I have not been able to notice it in game..

too busy clicking on heads.


----------



## Ka0sX

I have just sold my benq xl2411t was going to get the XL2720Z but have read that the 27" models have ghosting is that true?

If so looks like ill have to grab the XL2420TE

So HMMMMM what to do get the 27" or the 24"

All i do is play CSGO and CSS and browse the net

Thanks


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ka0sX*
> 
> I have just sold my benq xl2411t was going to get the XL2720Z but have read that the 27" models have ghosting is that true?
> 
> If so looks like ill have to grab the XL2420TE
> 
> So HMMMMM what to do get the 27" or the 24"
> 
> All i do is play CSGO and CSS and browse the net
> 
> Thanks


Blur/Ghosting is more visible on bigger monitors.
If theres more, I dont know.


----------



## kskwerl

so I just ordered another ASUS VG248QE, can I use the lightboost toasty hack on both of them at the same time? Do I just reinitialize the displays?


----------



## Rickles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kskwerl*
> 
> so I just ordered another ASUS VG248QE, can I use the lightboost toasty hack on both of them at the same time? Do I just reinitialize the displays?


Do you have 2 or 3?

I would hate to do surround or eyefinity with an even number of monitors...


----------



## Uraniumz

Just checking in here, I read a couple of pages but don't wanna catch up since I last posted. It seems Nvidia is intent on not providing the fix for surround lightboost users in their drivers still? I've been trying to sell my 780 Ti's to get some R9's to bypass this problem, but have had no luck yet, so I thought I would check in and see if there has been any progress towards a fix.


----------



## airisom2

Well my BenQ XL2720T came in, and I'm pretty impressed. Although my 5770 can't push anything at 120fps besides normal 2d browsing and old games, the difference is astounding.

I played around with Strobelight, and honestly, I don't see much of a difference between strobed and non-strobed in gaming. Tests like the ones on TestUFO are basically the only ones that really show lighboost in all of its glory. In gaming and browsing, you have to really focus on something in order to really perceive the difference. Plus, it makes stuttering more noticeable, which doesn't sit well with me. The slightly blurrier non-strobing mode is easier on the eyes when it comes to stuttering.

The color quality with Strobing on is really good, too. At first, the screen is blue-ish, but if you change the color temperature in CCC to 5800K, it seems to remove some of it. With it at 5800K, it looks pretty close to non-strobing, color accuracy-wise, but it's not as bright.

These are my calibration settings for this monitor if anyone is interested:

Picture mode: Standard

Brightness= 100
Contrast= 95
Red= 63
Green= 64
Blue= 66

Gamma= 5

Sharpness= 5

You're probably thinking why in the world did I put the brightness and contrast on 100. I mainly did it that way because it offers the highest brightness/contrast, it makes it much easier to calibrate RGB values, and the RGB accuracy scales linearly with brightness adjustment (no oversaturation and crushed colors). The result is a bright, colorful screen.

My main gripes with the monitor is that the reds aren't as red as I'd like, and the black levels aren't as good as I thought they'd be (my Planar PX2710MW has redder reds, and VA-like black levels). I also have slight light bleeding on the bottom left area. I took apart the monitor to see if it was a pressure issue, and it wasn't. Oh well, you can't have everything...yet. A 50" wide gamut OLED 4K 120Hz monitor/tv would be everything for me







Then again, this is probably the best $347 I've spent on computer components so far. Next up will be a graphics card.

EDIT: Updated color settings. I found out that I was still in game mode with the previous settings.
EDIT2: The gamma settings actually helped out with color vibrancy, and now the reds don't look as washed out as they did (as well as other colors looking slightly more vivid). It still isn't as red as I'd like it to be, though.
EDIT3: Changed contrast to 95. I saw some slight crushing on chrome's tabs.


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *airisom2*
> 
> Well my BenQ XL2720T came in, and I'm pretty impressed. Although my 5770 can't push anything at 120fps besides normal 2d browsing and old games, the difference is astounding.
> 
> I played around with Strobelight, and honestly, I don't see much of a difference between strobed and non-strobed in gaming. Tests like the ones on TestUFO are basically the only ones that really show lighboost in all of its glory. In gaming and browsing, you have to really focus on something in order to really perceive the difference. Plus, it makes stuttering more noticeable, which doesn't sit well with me. The slightly blurrier non-strobing mode is easier on the eyes when it comes to stuttering.
> 
> The color quality with Strobing on is really good, too. At first, the screen is blue-ish, but if you change the color temperature in CCC to 5800K, it seems to remove most of it. With it at 5800K, it looks pretty close to non-strobing, color accuracy-wise, but it's not as bright.
> 
> These are my calibration settings for this monitor if anyone is interested:
> 
> Picture mode: Standard
> 
> Brightness= 100
> Contrast= 100
> Red= 58
> Green= 52
> Blue= 47
> 
> Sharpness= 5
> 
> You're probably thinking why in the world did I put the brightness and contrast on 100. I mainly did it that way because it offers the highest brightness/contrast, it makes it much easier to calibrate RGB values, and the RGB accuracy scales linearly with brightness adjustment (no oversaturation and crushed colors). The result is a bright, colorful screen.
> 
> My main gripes with the monitor is that the reds aren't as red as I'd like, and the black levels aren't as good as I thought they'd be (my Planar PX2710MW has redder reds, and VA-like black levels). I also have slight light bleeding on the bottom left area. I took apart the monitor to see if it was a pressure issue, and it wasn't. Oh well, you can't have everything...yet. A 50" wide gamut OLED 4K 120Hz monitor/tv would be everything for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then again, this is probably the best $347 I've spent on computer components so far. Next up will be a graphics card.


Lightboost only works if you're at 100 PLUS FPS constant and not Sub 100.

5770 isnt enough for that.

However you might experience the major difference in CSS or CSGO if the 5770 can keep the game at a solid 120fps.
(Most can though)

For instance using Lightboost in CSGO at 120fps is crazy, everything is sharp and super smooth, no form of ghosting, motionblur or anything.
Even a 180* quick turn, no form of blur.

Why are you crushing your colors by having a contrast of 100?


----------



## airisom2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzta09*
> 
> Lightboost only works if you're at 100 PLUS FPS constant and not Sub 100.
> 
> 5770 isnt enough for that.
> 
> However you might experience the major difference in CSS or CSGO if the 5770 can keep the game at a solid 120fps.
> (Most can though)
> 
> For instance using Lightboost in CSGO at 120fps is crazy, everything is sharp and super smooth, no form of ghosting, motionblur or anything.
> Even a 180* quick turn, no form of blur.
> 
> Why are you crushing your colors by having a contrast of 100?


I was playing nfs mw (old version), and that can deliver 120fps with my card, and lightboost on vs off wasn't that big. I can see the difference, but it isn't night and day. Since I'm not a very active gamer (kinda limited with my card right now), I'll take my brightness and slightly better color accuracy.

No colors are crushed. I used (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/contrast.php) as reference for calibration, and every color band has a progressive, gradual increase in color intensity without crushing.


----------



## kskwerl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rickles*
> 
> Do you have 2 or 3?
> 
> I would hate to do surround or eyefinity with an even number of monitors...


Just 2 for now


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Only just thought of this, will G-Sync still stutter if you go below 30FPS like normal monitors do or does it remove that due to the screen and GPU refresh rates being synced?


----------



## aufkrawall

Will still stutter.
Maybe this can be reduced with an adaptive mode, who knows. 30Hz is the lower end for G-Sync.


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Only just thought of this, will G-Sync still stutter if you go below 30FPS like normal monitors do or does it remove that due to the screen and GPU refresh rates being synced?


A good question. As I understand it, it will behave like static 30Hz so you will still get stutter. At <30fps the fluidity would be pretty poor even if G-SYNC were able to work at <30Hz to be honest.


----------



## CallsignVega

If you are dropping below 30 FPS your machine is far too slow or your graphics settings are set far too high.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Keep in mind that the Ezio has higher input lag as well.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> If you are dropping below 30 FPS your machine is far too slow or your graphics settings are set far too high.


Only game that ever drops is Rift... and its craply optimized anyway lol

I was just curious thats why I asked


----------



## Jodiuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ka0sX*
> 
> I have just sold my benq xl2411t was going to get the XL2720Z but have read that the 27" models have ghosting is that true?
> 
> If so looks like ill have to grab the XL2420TE
> 
> So HMMMMM what to do get the 27" or the 24"
> 
> All i do is play CSGO and CSS and browse the net
> 
> Thanks


Where do u read this about the 27?


----------



## airisom2

My XL2720T has ghosting. I would show some pics of the PixPerAn racecar, but my fps rapidly fluctuates between 28 and 32fps with lots of lost frames when running it. Anyone know why? I'm gonna try using an older driver later to see if that fixes the problem.


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *airisom2*
> 
> My XL2720T has ghosting. I would show some pics of the PixPerAn racecar, but my fps rapidly fluctuates between 28 and 32fps with lots of lost frames when running it. Anyone know why? I'm gonna try using an older driver later to see if that fixes the problem.


Try this test, should work:

http://www.testufo.com/#test=ghosting


----------



## airisom2

I was just using that, but there's no option to save the ghosting as a picture like you can with PixPerAn.


----------



## Cyro999

How common is it to have headaches etc from lightboost strobing?

I didn't think i'd be able to run it 24/7, but i get headaches and pain in short times sometimes. Is it safe to use?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> How common is it to have headaches etc from lightboost strobing?
> 
> I didn't think i'd be able to run it 24/7, but i get headaches and pain in short times sometimes. Is it safe to use?


"_Another key consideration which doesn't affect all users but is equally relevant for both PC and console users is that the XL2420TE has a 'flicker free' backlight. Some users actually reported experiencing headaches or other visual discomfort using the ASUS, which is a typical sign of sensitivity or adverse reaction to PWM ('flicker' of the backlight). These users reported the symptoms disappearing after switching to the BenQ model_ "


----------



## Arc0s

Yes but using lightboost the light will strobe regardless of which monitor you choose.


----------



## Cyro999

Indeed the entire point of lightboost is strobing @120hz and light only being on like a quarter of the time; i'm fine using 144hz for 14 hours straight with frequent breaks if i want to, but lightboost can cause discomfort in half an hour sometimes and if i don't take a sizable break it comes right back when i turn it on


----------



## Jodiuh

I am very sensitive to PWM flicker and overall light sensitive to an extreme degree.

The 1st day I used Lb, I noticed a slight headache. But I've since used it for a month w/ no trouble.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> I am very sensitive to PWM flicker and overall light sensitive to an extreme degree.
> 
> The 1st day I used Lb, I noticed a slight headache. But I've since used it for a month w/ no trouble.


LightBoost is a low-frequency PWM strobing.
However, it is far less evil than PWM dimming because it is only one strobe per refresh -- which eliminates PWM artifacts.

And some people have eyestrain from motion blur, which can get people tired after long hours of gaming. Motion blur elimination can reduce eyestrain in a way that compensates for the eyestrain caused by flicker. Or if you were never sensitive to flicker to begin with, then LightBoost can actually reduce gaming eyestrain for some people, rather than increase. It is very person-dependant, however. If you never got eyestrain with 100Hz+ CRT's, then LightBoost or ULMB or Turbo240 can be a big boon.

Example of PWM artifacts (from www.testufo.com/ghosting when turning Brightness down to 0% in non-LightBoost mode)



This artifact sometimes creates more eyestrain, than the PWM flicker itself. It's a huge reason why many people get PWM eyestrain but little or no CRT/LightBoost eyestrain.


----------



## Jodiuh

Any more info on the eta for the new Z models in BenQs line? Will it be better than LB?


----------



## Cyro999

So i should try to get used to it a bit? Am i in any danger from induced headache etc?


----------



## Jodiuh

My friend said he got headaches for 2 weeks, then it was fine.


----------



## Cyro999

Ok thanks. I'm just a little concerned for etc seizure risk etc


----------



## Jodiuh

Well, just put some pillows and blankets down to be sure.


----------



## sterob

up until now never notice 120hz, light boost then i watched the hobbit 48fps.

If i get a monitor 120hz/light boost or g-sync monitor will i have the same experience watching video just like the hobbit 48fps?
Also how is the color production of the current 120mh/ lightboost/ g-sync monitor compare to say IPS panel monitor like dell u2711 (as i am using one)?


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sterob*
> 
> up until now never notice 120hz, light boost then i watched the hobbit 48fps.
> 
> If i get a monitor 120hz/light boost or g-sync monitor will i have the same experience watching video just like the hobbit 48fps?
> Also how is the color production of the current 120mh/ lightboost/ g-sync monitor compare to say IPS panel monitor like dell u2711 (as i am using one)?


Cant say about lightboost and all that but the colour reproduction on TN panels compared to IPS is crap, my Asus in between my 2 Dells looks out of place and more so with lightboost. I use my IPS monitors for everything and leave my Asus 144Hz just for games.

Just my


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sterob*
> 
> up until now never notice 120hz, light boost then i watched the hobbit 48fps.
> 
> If i get a monitor 120hz/light boost or g-sync monitor will i have the same experience watching video just like the hobbit 48fps?
> Also how is the color production of the current 120mh/ lightboost/ g-sync monitor compare to say IPS panel monitor like dell u2711 (as i am using one)?


Hobbit 48fps is interpolated, shows the frames twice.
Unless you somehow managed to get Peter Jackson to give you a TRUE 48fps copy on Bluray.


----------



## airisom2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sterob*
> 
> up until now never notice 120hz, light boost then i watched the hobbit 48fps.
> 
> If i get a monitor 120hz/light boost or g-sync monitor will i have the same experience watching video just like the hobbit 48fps?
> Also how is the color production of the current 120mh/ lightboost/ g-sync monitor compare to say IPS panel monitor like dell u2711 (as i am using one)?


Well, I don't totally get your post, so I'll just braindump instead







.

The u2711 will have better colors than any 120Hz+ monitor (Idk about the korean monitors).

Just changing out your monitor won't magically grant smoother video playback, like [email protected] It won't somehow upscale the framerate. It'll still be limited by whatever the source framerate is (24fps, 29.97fps, etc.).

A 120Hz monitor, however, will make everything from games (if you can keep the frames up) to desktop browsing smoother than a 60Hz monitor.

A 120Hz monitor may feel more responsive and less laggy than 60Hz. I know when I was using my Planar PX2710MW side by side my BenQ XL2720T, the BenQ made the Planar feel like it was laggy, which could either be because of a noticeable input lag difference, or the difference between 60Hz and 120Hz.

If you want to watch movies and stuff at 60fps/120fps/144fps, then check out SVP. It interpolates extra frames in the video to increase the framerate to your refresh rate. So, for instance, if you have a 24fps (or 29.97, 30fps, etc.) movie, it'll interpolate extra frames to make it 60fps for a 60Hz monitor or 120fps for a 120Hz monitor, which makes playback MUCH smoother. So yeah, 120Hz+ monitors aren't only useful for gaming. Maybe some of you guys can give it a try.


----------



## Jodiuh

The Asus 144hz has horrible colors. The BenQ XL2420TE is MUCH better. I have it between 2 Dell S-IPS and though they are different, it doesn't bother me one bit.

Also, the jump from 144hz to 120hz Lightboost is just as significant as from 60hz to 144hz, possibly more so.


----------



## senna89

The only problem of Asus is the missing gamma setting.


----------



## crabula

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> The Asus 144hz has horrible colors. The BenQ XL2420TE is MUCH better. I have it between 2 Dell S-IPS and though they are different, it doesn't bother me one bit.


The ASUS VG248QE? I bought one recently to replace my old 22" 75Hz e-IPS (Dell 2209WA) - the ASUS looks _very_ washed out in comparison, I just put it down to being a TN panel...

Is BenQ all that much better? Are there any 24" BenQs that, when using [email protected], are far better with colours than the ASUS?

I'd like something with the motion clarity of [email protected], same response & input lag as the ASUS VG248QE, but decent colours.

Maybe EIZO FG2421 "240Hz" is the way to go? Is there anything wrong with it for gaming that I'd notice, coming from the ASUS? Edit: Did some quick reading on the EIZO, seems it's hard to get a good one, and even then has some niggles.

I'd also be considering the BenQ XL2720Z, but I think 24" is as big as I want to go for 1080p - maybe they'll release a 24" version? And now that I've got LightBoost, even [email protected]~120Hz on a PLS is a no-go.

Thx


----------



## Arc0s

I had the vg248qe and bought an Eizo fg2421, I got a good one with zero problems and I'm very happy with it; great colors, contrast ratio, and great motion clarity. I suggest ordering from a place with good return policy in case you get a bad one.


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crabula*
> 
> The ASUS VG248QE? I bought one recently to replace my old 22" 75Hz e-IPS (Dell 2209WA) - the ASUS *looks very washed out in comparison*, I just put it down to being a TN panel...


washed out because have too little value of gamma and in its OSD there's not settings about.
Its not a TN problem, only VG248


----------



## 47 Knucklehead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Only game that ever drops is Rift... and its craply optimized anyway lol
> 
> I was just curious thats why I asked


You just need to leave Tempest Bay.


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> washed out because have too little value of gamma and in its OSD there's not settings about.
> Its not a TN problem, only VG248


You can adjust gamma in Nvcpl/Windows/Catalyst


----------



## sterob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzta09*
> 
> Hobbit 48fps is interpolated, shows the frames twice.
> Unless you somehow managed to get Peter Jackson to give you a TRUE 48fps copy on Bluray.


so the whatever showing in the cinema is not true 48fps? still i feel the action screens were smoother compare to other 24fps movie

However seem like 120hz monitor still doesnt have decent color reproduction yet.


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sterob*
> 
> so the whatever showing in the cinema is not true 48fps? still i feel the action screens were smoother compare to other 24fps movie
> 
> However seem like 120hz monitor still doesnt have decent color reproduction yet.


Eizo FG2421...


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzta09*
> 
> You can adjust gamma in Nvcpl/Windows/Catalyst


not all users know it.


----------



## skupples

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7627/asus-at-ces-2014


Quote:


> New at CES: The ROG SWIFT PG278Q - a 27" 1400p 120Hz Monitor for $800 with G-SYNC












now to find out if they work in surround.


----------



## hamzta09

Find it funny how Nvidia at Dreamhack Winter only showed off GSync at 60hz vs 60hz non-GSync.

Guess the difference at 120-144hz is minimal.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzta09*
> 
> Find it funny how Nvidia at Dreamhack Winter only showed off GSync at 60hz vs 60hz non-GSync.
> 
> Guess the difference at 120-144hz is minimal.


the strange part is that all info pointed towards them not coming above 1080p or 60hz any time soon.

it's either minimal, or the "demo released too early" theory is the case. Many people felt it was far too in advance for nvidia to do a tech demo, & that the only reason they did it was to throw a rench in AMD's month of glory.

It's built on the PG278Q, which means it's also PLS correct? Wasn't it also rumored that G-sync wouldn't be coming in PLS?


----------



## Arc0s

Oh man looks like I'll be replacing my monitor, AGAIN!


----------



## JackNaylorPE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> washed out because have too little value of gamma and in its OSD there's not settings about.
> Its not a TN problem, only VG248


definitely not..... I have a VG248 and a Dell IPS .... the IPs looks washed out and laggy compared tot he 248..... of course applying the ICC profile makes all the difference in the 248..... the Dell has more natural colors for photos, but the downside of that is it doesn't have the "pop" that TN has for gaming. Unfortunately, just as 99.5% of music CDs are mixed to sound good on iPhones and boom boxes and therefore can grate on the ears when listed on audiophile systems, games are designed for the "lowest common denominator" that being a $150 TN panel.


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackNaylorPE*
> 
> definitely not..... I have a VG248 and a Dell IPS .... the IPs looks washed out and laggy compared tot he 248


HAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHA


----------



## JackNaylorPE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sterob*
> 
> However seem like 120hz monitor still doesnt have decent color reproduction yet.


It would same accurate color production and gaming still remain two non compatible uses for those that are particular. If ya have both, ya not gonna do photo editing an a 144 Hz TN panel..... if ya have both, ya not gonna do gaming on an IPS.


----------



## JackNaylorPE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/7627/asus-at-ces-2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now to find out if they work in surround.


Figures..... looks like I will have to gift my 248 on my son's B'day :0

What;'s the current Vig on a $2400 loan ?


----------



## skupples

lol @ AMD's freesync... Anyone else find it fishy that A.) they did the demo on a laptop, B.) they literally have zero plans on how to/when they will be bringing it to market C.) that the anandtech review makes it sound like they slapped it together during an allnighter just to throw a rench in Nvidia's hype machine.

I'm for the first time in my life going to be holding out on any major upgrades until this current storm passes. Too many things to come with Mantle & G-sync.


----------



## CallsignVega

I have a feeling fast computers that run 120+ FPS won't benefit much from G-Sync. The real boon there will be for lower FPS, like 60 and below that have wild FPS swings.

Now, of these new panels are able to use improved strobing back-light feature of G-Sync, that could be really impressive.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *47 Knucklehead*
> 
> You just need to leave Tempest Bay.


Lol







maybe I should turn some settings down









Also the DIY mod kits must be coming soon right? really wanna try it out and see how she runs


----------



## gopala33

delete it


----------



## caenlen

when will the first gsync monitors be hitting newegg? i wanta 1080p one, cant afford the $800 one


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caenlen*
> 
> when will the first gsync monitors be hitting newegg? i wanta 1080p one, cant afford the $800 one


Nvidia showed a graph at CES 2014 with Q2 time frame and it included both 1080p and 1440p monitors.


----------



## Jodiuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crabula*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> The Asus 144hz has horrible colors. The BenQ XL2420TE is MUCH better. I have it between 2 Dell S-IPS and though they are different, it doesn't bother me one bit.
> 
> 
> 
> The ASUS VG248QE? I bought one recently to replace my old 22" 75Hz e-IPS (Dell 2209WA) - the ASUS looks _very_ washed out in comparison, I just put it down to being a TN panel...
> 
> Is BenQ all that much better? Are there any 24" BenQs that, when using [email protected], are far better with colours than the ASUS?
> 
> I'd like something with the motion clarity of [email protected], same response & input lag as the ASUS VG248QE, but decent colours.
> 
> Maybe EIZO FG2421 "240Hz" is the way to go? Is there anything wrong with it for gaming that I'd notice, coming from the ASUS? Edit: Did some quick reading on the EIZO, seems it's hard to get a good one, and even then has some niggles.
> 
> I'd also be considering the BenQ XL2720Z, but I think 24" is as big as I want to go for 1080p - maybe they'll release a 24" version? And now that I've got LightBoost, even [email protected]~120Hz on a PLS is a no-go.
> 
> Thx
Click to expand...

The XL2420TE

http://www.blurbusters.com/benq-xl2420te-best-120hz-monitor/






Then look @ the reviews on Amazon and Newegg. Lots of comparisons to the Asus.

They are coming out with an improved Z version soon.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *hamzta09*
> 
> You can adjust gamma in Nvcpl/Windows/Catalyst
> 
> 
> 
> not all users know it.
Click to expand...

Those settings do nothing for me in BF4. Reverts right back to default.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> I have a feeling fast computers that run 120+ FPS won't benefit much from G-Sync. The real boon there will be for lower FPS, like 60 and below that have wild FPS swings.
> 
> Now, of these new panels are able to use improved strobing back-light feature of G-Sync, that could be really impressive.


That's my only complaint with the XL2420TE. The top of the screen is tinted red and the bottom green. And of course, it's all washed out and the NV color settings do nothing for BF4. I'm still within my return policy and am hoping the new Z version w/ its built in strobing feature will alleviate the color issues in LB mode. That said, when I'm playing BF4, the last thing on my mind is the color, lol!


----------



## Papadope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/7627/asus-at-ces-2014
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now to find out if they work in surround.


Finally, they are going to make a nice looking monitor.







I hope the stand has height adjustments


----------



## Jodiuh

Specs look like a TN tho. $800 for a TN seems like madness.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> Specs look like a TN tho. $800 for a TN seems like madness.


I would only pay over $500 for an IPS, $800 for a TN it would need to have IPS colours with G-Sync and 0ms lag







... and even then I probably wouldnt buy it


----------



## Jodiuh

Gsync price rapage.


----------



## gopala33

ASUS ROG SWIFT PG278Q G-SYNC

sad no HDMI why i need HDMI because i need play XBOX 360 AND PS3 FOR HDMI
Displayport for PC to daam sad no HDMI


----------



## WalterWhiteGuy

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00D7IG556/sr=/qid=/ref=olp_tab_new?ie=UTF8&colid=&coliid=&condition=new&me=&qid=&seller=&sr=

About to pull the trigger


----------



## Arizonian

*Philips announces 27-inch monitor equipped with Nvidia G-Sync technology* - Tech Spot January 6, 2014

Looks like Phillips 272G5DYEB G-sync 144 Hz speculation price $650

*Philips' 27-inch monitor with NVIDIA's G-Sync tempts gamers with silky-smooth visuals* - engadget January 6, 2014


----------



## crabula

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> The XL2420TE
> 
> http://www.blurbusters.com/benq-xl2420te-best-120hz-monitor/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then look @ the reviews on Amazon and Newegg. Lots of comparisons to the Asus.
> 
> *They are coming out with an improved Z version soon*


Nice, thanks. Like you I will get the Z version if colours are good & antiblur+response+lag are acceptable.


----------



## Jodiuh

Looks like they got a product page up!

http://gaming.benq.com/gaming-monitor/xl2420z

Shouldn't be long now!


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> sad no HDMI why i need HDMI because i need play XBOX 360 AND PS3 FOR HDMI


You really need a 1440p 120hz gsync potentially strobe backlight monitor for ~720p30 content?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzta09*
> 
> Find it funny how Nvidia at Dreamhack Winter only showed off GSync at 60hz vs 60hz non-GSync.
> 
> Guess the difference at 120-144hz is minimal.


They tested it on sc2, which annoyed me. The game has massive problems with frametime inconsistencies



^scrolling map for a few seconds when fps meter reads 120fps..


----------



## Arc0s

Wait the Asus might not be TN?


----------



## gopala33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> You really need a 1440p 120hz gsync potentially strobe backlight monitor for ~720p30 content?


no i need 1080p 120hz or 144hz gsync for PC and i need HDMI Console for = 1080p60 content


----------



## CallsignVega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> *Philips announces 27-inch monitor equipped with Nvidia G-Sync technology* - Tech Spot January 6, 2014
> 
> Looks like Phillips 272G5DYEB G-sync 144 Hz speculation price $650
> 
> *Philips' 27-inch monitor with NVIDIA's G-Sync tempts gamers with silky-smooth visuals* - engadget January 6, 2014


Not sure why anyone would buy this 27" 1080P monitor when for $150 more you can get the 1440P G-Sync Asus.


----------



## TiezZ BE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Not sure why anyone would buy this 27" 1080P monitor when for $150 more you can get the 1440P G-Sync Asus.


$150 is still a reasonable difference and when running a gpu like 7870, 7950, 660(ti), 670, 760 you would lack the gpu power for 1440p so then you'd need to do another upgrade = more $


----------



## PCM2

Let's not forget some 24" G-SYNC models like the BenQ XL2420G, ViewSonic VX2457GML and AOC g2460P (model number TBC). The prices are not yet known but they should be significantly cheaper than the 27" ASUS model. Might be good options to consider. Also remember that these are just MSPR/RRPs and actual retail prices for these models may be a bit different (lower), especially in light of the ASUS model's price and it being the real standout at the moment.


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> The XL2420TE
> 
> http://www.blurbusters.com/benq-xl2420te-best-120hz-monitor/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then look @ the reviews on Amazon and Newegg. Lots of comparisons to the Asus.
> 
> They are coming out with an improved Z version soon.
> Those settings do nothing for me in BF4. Reverts right back to default.
> That's my only complaint with the XL2420TE. The top of the screen is tinted red and the bottom green. And of course, it's all washed out and the NV color settings do nothing for BF4. I'm still within my return policy and am hoping the new Z version w/ its built in strobing feature will alleviate the color issues in LB mode. That said, when I'm playing BF4, the last thing on my mind is the color, lol!


Something wrong with your PC then.
NVCPL changes work fine for me in ALL games. But gets overridden if you adjust INGAME brightness.
Make sure windows calibration is unticked as in -donotusewindowscalibration and reboot.


----------



## Jodiuh

Thanks. Where? So BF4 uses NV colors?


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> Thanks. Where? So BF4 uses NV colors?


If you have an ICC profile i.e. a windows calibration profile for your monitor you go into Controlpanel - Color Management then you click the tab Advanced, then again you click Advanced in the newly opened window and at the bottom you untick Use Windows Calibration.

If this doesnt work after you enabled Use Nvidia Settings (in NVCPL - Adjust Desktop Color Settings) then I dont know whats going on.'

On my 20T I run Brightness at 50% (monitor 20-30) and contrast 50% (monitor 50) and Gamma at 0.70-85 depends on game (monitor 4) and I use lightboost (10%) only in games where high framerates can be achieved, such as CSGO, COD, some maps in BF4.
Not in Skyrim though, due to their engine being all wonky when you turn up framerate above 60 -.-


----------



## Jodiuh

I have no ICC set.


----------



## JackNaylorPE

How to for ICC Profiles

http://pcmonitors.info/articles/using-icc-profiles-in-windows

Asus 144 Hz VG248 profiles

AMD http://pcmonitors.info/icc/ASUS%20VG248QE%20AMD.icm
nVidia http://pcmonitors.info/icc/ASUS%20VG248QE%20Nvidia.icm


----------



## Swolern

New 332.21 nvidia drivers released today finally fixed my Korean monitor OC in surround!!! I believe it is the same root issue as Lightboost Surround so hopefully that is fixed as well. http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/nvidia-geforce-332-21-whql-drivers-released


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Not sure why anyone would buy this 27" 1080P monitor when for $150 more you can get the 1440P G-Sync Asus.


seems we may of gotten a load of BS with the G-sync news of months ago.

A.) TN panel only = not true
B.) 60hz only = not true
C.) Asus only for the foreseeable future = Not true.

think i'm missing one.

oh, 800$!>!!?!>!>!>!> yeah................ no,.

@ this point it would be *much* cheaper to get an X-star & stick the module in it, if the module only costing ~200$ is true.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> New 332.21 nvidia drivers released today finally fixed my Korean monitor OC in surround!!! I believe it is the same root issue as Lightboost Surround so hopefully that is fixed as well. http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/nvidia-geforce-332-21-whql-drivers-released


Good news!
I've posted this on Blur Busters as well as Blur Busters Forums, to let even more people know. This is a lifesaver for some people. Sitting on >$1000+ surround setups that can't be fully taken advantage of.

Thanks for the tidbit!


----------



## JackNaylorPE

Weird ....using GeForce Experience says there are no new drivers and no new GFE


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackNaylorPE*
> 
> Weird ....using GeForce Experience says there are no new drivers and no new GFE


the other strange thing is that the nvidia site shows them as "331" but they are actually 332 in fine print. @least, it did today when I downloaded them.


----------



## Z Overlord

So will G Sync and strobing ever be usable at once?


----------



## bcooper21

Is it easy or hard notice difference with strobing? I tried in game a few like leauge of legends, crysis, dragon age, outlast, battle field 4 i honestly could not tell difference so i dont really see benefit for me i dont notice motion blur better or worse on or off.


----------



## CallsignVega

If you don't notice the increased motion clarity of strobing backlight, I doubt you'd notice any G-Sync improvements either.


----------



## bcooper21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> If you don't notice the increased motion clarity of strobing backlight, I doubt you'd notice any G-Sync improvements either.


Well i notice vsync lag and i also notice the increased latency of triple buffer. I also can see tearing fine idk.

I just dont notice motion clarity of it or maybe i did something wrong.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

I noticed a difference with lightboost in fast games like BF3/4 it just seemed to make it all smoother and took out the blur, thats just me tho

That is going from one of my Dells to the Asus tho so 144Hz over 60Hz is massive


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bcooper21*
> 
> Is it easy or hard notice difference with strobing? I tried in game a few like leauge of legends, crysis, dragon age, outlast, battle field 4 i honestly could not tell difference so i dont really see benefit for me i dont notice motion blur better or worse on or off.


http://testufo.com/#test=photo&photo=quebec.jpg&pps=1440&pursuit=0

Look with and without strobing.

I probably wouldn't really notice in LoL and bf4 has microstuttering issues and is generally hard to get near consistent 120fps (even if fps meter says so) but so far it's proven godly to me in CSGO and NS2 and great at times in PS2. Any test like this quickly exposes the insane difference though


----------



## Uraniumz

Just checked in, and I see that there is hope for us surround users. I am currently downloading the drivers to see if I can get back to 5760x1080 lightboosted 144hz. I've read through the comments here and over on the blurbusters forum and have yet to see a confirmation of it, and didn't see it in the footnotes of the driver. I will post back in a few to confirm for anyone looking. If this is true... I may just keep my 780 ti's and stay green. It does not alleviate the fact that Nvidia caused the problem in the first place, and it took them what,...5'ish months to fix? But it does help.......


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Good news!
> I've posted this on Blur Busters as well as Blur Busters Forums, to let even more people know. This is a lifesaver for some people. Sitting on >$1000+ surround setups that can't be fully taken advantage of.
> 
> Thanks for the tidbit!


You've been given incorrect information. It DOES NOT work in surround. It still works in triple display and single display just like before, but does not work in surround. Even with beta 4..


----------



## skupples

pathetic really.. wonder if they will have LB fixed in the drivers by the time g-sync hits. If not, they are going to have some serious poo flinging.

ohwell, @least some of these new titles are running better on these new drivers.


----------



## Uraniumz

@ Ironmaiden: Lightboost via Toasty's Strobelight has always worked in triple monitor. I would know. I have been running my 3x VG248qe's in "activate all displays" mode @120hz with lightboost working ever since it stopped working for surround with the release of the 227'ish drivers. A page back there were two claims made that the newest driver, released today, 332.xx has finally fixed the issue for using lightboost while in surround.

I do have an update. I just installed the new driver, 332.21, and I cannot get it to work. I reinstalled the refresh rates via the strobelight setup.exe, restarted (all after installing the new drivers), and although the strobelight icon is lit (in previous drivers, in surround mode, it would turn off), still no lightboost I am sure. I can truly see the difference easily, although some say the difference is negligible. I will keep screwing around with it. Is it possible the strobelight program needs a few tweaks to work with the new drivers? I am by no means a programmer.

***Edit: I just noticed there is a newer version of strobelight, out..I will try that out as well.


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Uraniumz*
> 
> @ Ironmaiden: Lightboost via Toasty's Strobelight has always worked in triple monitor. I would know. I have been running my 3x VG248qe's in "activate all displays" mode @120hz with lightboost working ever since it stopped working for surround with the release of the 227'ish drivers. A page back there were two claims made that the newest driver, released today, 332.xx has finally fixed the issue for using lightboost while in surround.
> 
> I do have an update. I just installed the new driver, 332.21, and I cannot get it to work. I reinstalled the refresh rates via the strobelight setup.exe, restarted (all after installing the new drivers), and although the strobelight icon is lit (in previous drivers, in surround mode, it would turn off), still no lightboost I am sure. I can truly see the difference easily, although some say the difference is negligible. I will keep screwing around with it. Is it possible the strobelight program needs a few tweaks to work with the new drivers? I am by no means a programmer.
> 
> ***Edit: I just noticed there is a newer version of strobelight, out..I will try that out as well.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Good news!
> I've posted this on Blur Busters as well as Blur Busters Forums, to let even more people know. This is a lifesaver for some people. Sitting on >$1000+ surround setups that can't be fully taken advantage of.
> 
> Thanks for the tidbit!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bcooper21*
> 
> Well i notice vsync lag and i also notice the increased latency of triple buffer. I also can see tearing fine idk.
> 
> I just dont notice motion clarity of it or maybe i did something wrong.


You are wasting your time. Its a nvidia programming thing. You will never get it to work mate. Nvidia broke it deliberately.. Can you imagine 1000 people in the world using free light-boost.. Now way says nvidia, we'll grab that market.. So they made lightboost broken.. And what do you know, Gsync lurks just around the corner., Funny that now isn't it..

I got really excited for a good half hour then while I scrambled to download and install only to see what I had feared.. I hate it when little boys start posting false ****.. I spose it makes them feel good for a little while.


----------



## Uraniumz

Oh I hear you on the whole market opportunity they made for themselves. I called that out a couple months ago. I thought this was too good to be true, and it looks like it is, unless we are both missing something. For those reading, Lightboost does not work on Nvidia 332.21 drivers using 3xVG248QE's via ToasyX's Strobelight utility. Its just a big bummer. I went green because of promising technology, and a small price premium, although a premium nonetheless. I spent more than $2,000 on cards and monitors (shame on me regardless lol), to be let down by lightboost being crippled purposely by Nvidia, to be let down by Shadowplay absolutely not working for me whenever I try, and be jerked around by fidning out too late in the game that G-sync won't even work with lightboost, it's one or the other.

The thing that bugs me the most is Nvidia crippled current and future lightboost users on purpose, to create a new market for themselves. I understand that it is a business, supply and demand etc... I even understand and don't blame suppliers for trying to make money on the current mining popularity of certain cards. That is business. But what I will not tolerate is a company that will go one further than the norm of making a profit before making a happy customer, and that is to turn around to that customer who bought not just on specifications, but on praise of the company itself (Nvidia) because of its previous reputation of being excellent to its customers, and try to squeeze more money out of them. I earn my paycheck in the Armed Forces, not by screwing someone and then trying to get more money to fix it for them. Nvidia has stolen my last dollar. It would be nice if it does eventually get fixed, but I will refrain from ever buying from a company that handles its customer base like a cow to be milked. Your reputation is dwindling Nvidia.


----------



## Uraniumz

On a better note, this will all hopefully push monitors that strobe independently of cards and the drivers they use. I just wish I could afford them !!!! Those 3x EIZO's look awesome.


----------



## mdrejhon

Damn. I got inconsistent reports. Well, it does work for 1440p 120Hz surround.

That said, there has been success reports via the LightBoost Hardware Modification HOWTO to get LightBoost working in triple surround mode, without needing to wait for fixed drivers.


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Uraniumz*
> 
> Oh I hear you on the whole market opportunity they made for themselves. I called that out a couple months ago. I thought this was too good to be true, and it looks like it is, unless we are both missing something. For those reading, Lightboost does not work on Nvidia 332.21 drivers using 3xVG248QE's via ToasyX's Strobelight utility. Its just a big bummer. I went green because of promising technology, and a small price premium, although a premium nonetheless. I spent more than $2,000 on cards and monitors (shame on me regardless lol), to be let down by lightboost being crippled purposely by Nvidia, to be let down by Shadowplay absolutely not working for me whenever I try, and be jerked around by fidning out too late in the game that G-sync won't even work with lightboost, it's one or the other.
> 
> The thing that bugs me the most is Nvidia crippled current and future lightboost users on purpose, to create a new market for themselves. I understand that it is a business, supply and demand etc... I even understand and don't blame suppliers for trying to make money on the current mining popularity of certain cards. That is business. But what I will not tolerate is a company that will go one further than the norm of making a profit before making a happy customer, and that is to turn around to that customer who bought not just on specifications, but on praise of the company itself (Nvidia) because of its previous reputation of being excellent to its customers, and try to squeeze more money out of them. I earn my paycheck in the Armed Forces, not by screwing someone and then trying to get more money to fix it for them. Nvidia has stolen my last dollar. It would be nice if it does eventually get fixed, but I will refrain from ever buying from a company that handles its customer base like a cow to be milked. Your reputation is dwindling Nvidia.


+1 on all that you said mate.. Have you ever seen the movie about the guy who invented the intermittent windshield wiper only to have his idea stolen buy Ford.. Excellent movie.. And this is a prime example..

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Uraniumz*
> 
> On a better note, this will all hopefully push monitors that strobe independently of cards and the drivers they use. I just wish I could afford them !!!! Those 3x EIZO's look awesome.


I think my money is being held out for the 1440p Asus 27inch monitor.. One first to see how 3 680's push it, then maybe another two a little later.. 27 over a 24 inch monitor is great and all, but 27 really does deserve a higher res.. Lets be real..

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Damn. I got inconsistent reports. Well, it does work for 1440p 120Hz surround.
> 
> That said, there has been success reports via the LightBoost Hardware Modification HOWTO to get LightBoost working in triple surround mode, without needing to wait for fixed drivers.


I've just purchased a 8800gt to see if I can get these VG's to work.. I actually bought the card a few days ago and was a little cheesed when I heard the news that the latest drivers work in surround. Alas, now all is not lost..









On a side note Mark. When I tried to flash the firmware with the Dell Laptop the graphics card in the lappy would only output to certain resolutions.. Most were not in sync with the VG. I think 1280 was the best I could use.. AND the biggy was the max the card could see was 85hz.. It was never going to see the true VG 120Hz in its lifetime.. So it never happened. Was worth a try though right? So I have a windows XP 32bit system waiting for the 8800gt to see if I can flash these VG 27's. Should be a couple of days postage.


----------



## crabula

An ASUS rep posted on an Australian forum:

"the ROG Swift PG278Q comes with a premium TN that provides the color and black levels of an eIPS panel if not better" (Link)

Firstly, AFAIK, eIPS black levels have always been the same as TN (with VA panels being vastly superior to both). Secondly, I'll believe eIPS-like colours on a TN when I see it. My last monitor was an eIPS (Dell 2209WA) and for the life of me I can't achieve anything close to it on my ASUS VG248QE.


----------



## crun

Still no news about pricing and availability of 1080p 24" G-Sync?


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crun*
> 
> Still no news about pricing and availability of 1080p 24" G-Sync?


No firm details, but confirmation that they are coming and will be coming in the not too distant future.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> Let's not forget some 24" G-SYNC models like the BenQ XL2420G, ViewSonic VX2457GML and AOC g2460P (model number TBC). The prices are not yet known but they should be significantly cheaper than the 27" ASUS model. Might be good options to consider. Also remember that these are just MSPR/RRPs and actual retail prices for these models may be a bit different (lower), especially in light of the ASUS model's price and it being the real standout at the moment.


----------



## crun

I really hope for 400-450$ MSRP


----------



## JackNaylorPE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bcooper21*
> 
> Is it easy or hard notice difference with strobing? I tried in game a few like leauge of legends, crysis, dragon age, outlast, battle field 4 i honestly could not tell difference so i dont really see benefit for me i dont notice motion blur better or worse on or off.


It may be for you one of those kinda things that ya don't notice until it's pointed out to ya...... I remember when PhysX came out, I was like "whatz the big deal ?" .... then when i s aw a side by side video and knew what to look for when it wasn't on, I missed things like leaves and paper moving when ya walked thru them, glass breaking, explosions having particles, smoke, clouds, fog, spiderwebs breaking when ya walk thru them, flags waving etc.

Check a few demos and then see if you can observe the same effects .... if not, then not worth your money to invest in tech you won't see any benefit to.


----------



## bcooper21

Ok i notice it now more that i looked at that test.

Wondering what is best tracefree setting with vg248qe right now im using 60 default is it better lower it or raise?

Also anyone know how make it turn on start up or do you need manually do it? Not big deal i turn my pc on and leave it on all day most time but would be nice.


----------



## TiezZ BE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bcooper21*
> 
> Ok i notice it now more that i looked at that test.
> 
> Wondering what is best tracefree setting with vg248qe right now im using 60 default is it better lower it or raise?
> 
> Also anyone know how make it turn on start up or do you need manually do it? Not big deal i turn my pc on and leave it on all day most time but would be nice.


Check this review:http://pcmonitors.info/reviews/asus-vg248qe
They set it to 80. (I've set mine to 80 long time ago, I think because of this review)

quote:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



"TF0 and TF20 tell a fairly similar story to the other refresh rates. TF40 has a slightly more woven appearance compared to 120Hz but not as much as at 60Hz. TF60 is quite comparable to the corresponding snapshot at 120Hz, whilst TF80 gives a slight reduction in trailing. TF100 is, again, a mess. Don't forget the vital importance of refresh rate. This is now 144Hz with the car moving extremely rapidly - there are 2.4 times as many frames crammed in each second as at 60Hz and 1.2 times as many as at 120Hz. The visible trailing is reduced further as a result and the snapshots become even less representative of what the eye sees. Also remember that these snapshots only look at a fairly limited range of pixel transitions. It's important to look more broadly at how visible trailing actually is during a wide range of different pixel transitions, between different colours and at various speeds. It also shouldn't escape your notice that obtrusive overdrive artifacts are only visible at TF100. It is good that ASUS gives such freedom to users with its Trace Free settings and that even at TF80 there are no nasty surprises in this test. slot everything together we fired up some games. This allowed us to look at pixel responses in a broad range of scenarios and assess the practical influence of the 144Hz refresh rate and very low input lag. For this testing we used a Trace Free setting of 80 as we felt that, overall, this provided the best pixel responsiveness. Trailing was reduced in some instances compared to TF60 without any particularly conspicuous overdrive artifacts being introduced."



Edit: My vg248qe automatically goes standby when there is no signal, power button is colored orange instead of blue when in standby. So you could just not power it down and use the auto standby. My windows automatically shuts down my monitor signal after 15 mins if I'm not using my pc, best to set something like that in energy settings in windows if your pc is on most of the time.
FYI: The ECO mode in monitor OSD is turned off and i'm using a displayport cable. Didn't test this with other cables.


----------



## bcooper21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiezZ BE*
> 
> Check this review:http://pcmonitors.info/reviews/asus-vg248qe
> They set it to 80. (I've set mine to 80 long time ago, I think because of this review)
> 
> quote:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> "TF0 and TF20 tell a fairly similar story to the other refresh rates. TF40 has a slightly more woven appearance compared to 120Hz but not as much as at 60Hz. TF60 is quite comparable to the corresponding snapshot at 120Hz, whilst TF80 gives a slight reduction in trailing. TF100 is, again, a mess. Don't forget the vital importance of refresh rate. This is now 144Hz with the car moving extremely rapidly - there are 2.4 times as many frames crammed in each second as at 60Hz and 1.2 times as many as at 120Hz. The visible trailing is reduced further as a result and the snapshots become even less representative of what the eye sees. Also remember that these snapshots only look at a fairly limited range of pixel transitions. It's important to look more broadly at how visible trailing actually is during a wide range of different pixel transitions, between different colours and at various speeds. It also shouldn't escape your notice that obtrusive overdrive artifacts are only visible at TF100. It is good that ASUS gives such freedom to users with its Trace Free settings and that even at TF80 there are no nasty surprises in this test. slot everything together we fired up some games. This allowed us to look at pixel responses in a broad range of scenarios and assess the practical influence of the 144Hz refresh rate and very low input lag. For this testing we used a Trace Free setting of 80 as we felt that, overall, this provided the best pixel responsiveness. Trailing was reduced in some instances compared to TF60 without any particularly conspicuous overdrive artifacts being introduced."
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: My vg248qe automatically goes standby when there is no signal, power button is colored orange instead of blue when in standby. So you could just not power it down and use the auto standby. My windows automatically shuts down my monitor signal after 15 mins if I'm not using my pc, best to set something like that in energy settings in windows if your pc is on most of the time.
> FYI: The ECO mode in monitor OSD is turned off and i'm using a displayport cable. Didn't test this with other cables.


So as long as i dont turn off my monitor? Ok i did not know this is thought the strobelight need be in task bar and it was setting in windows.


----------



## TiezZ BE

I don't use lightboost

Or what do you mean with 'strobelight' in the taskbar?


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> I got really excited for a good half hour then while I scrambled to download and install only to see what I had feared.. I hate it when little boys start posting false ****.. I spose it makes them feel good for a little while.


You got some nerve. You need to read my post again before you get your panties in a bunch, because obviously you read what you wanted to see and not what I wrote. I understand you are frustrated, but you might want to go take it out on Nvidia and not people on this forum that are actually trying to help others.







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> New 332.21 nvidia drivers released today finally fixed my Korean monitor OC in surround!!! I believe it is the same root issue as Lightboost Surround so *hopefully* that is fixed as well. http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/nvidia-geforce-332-21-whql-drivers-released


----------



## bcooper21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiezZ BE*
> 
> I don't use lightboost
> 
> Or what do you mean with 'strobelight' in the taskbar?


Yea when i went to use lightboost it linked me to that application to download thats not lightboost ***?

I might not been using it at all what do i need to do?


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bcooper21*
> 
> Yea when i went to use lightboost it linked me to that application to download thats not lightboost ***?
> 
> I might not been using it at all what do i need to do?


Strobelight = Lightboost


----------



## bcooper21

Ok now im reall confused


----------



## Jack Mac

As long as you've already set up strobelight, you don't have to run it until you shut off your monitor. My BenQ has a green 3D light that tells me that strobing is on, not sure what the ASUS has.


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> As long as you've already set up strobelight, you don't have to run it until you shut off your monitor. My BenQ has a green 3D light that tells me that strobing is on, not sure what the ASUS has.


I need to run Strobelight on my 20T(E) in order to activate it.
Note - not the installer, but the app itself.


----------



## bcooper21

I tried installer but it makes my screen really blue is this normal and is app just in task bar just as good.


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzta09*
> 
> I need to run Strobelight on my 20T(E) in order to activate it.
> Note - not the installer, but the app itself.


I do too, but that's because my entire setup is using an extension cord that I unplug when it's not in use, no real reason why, just OCD.


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bcooper21*
> 
> I tried installer but it makes my screen really blue is this normal and is app just in task bar just as good.


Installer = installs the refreshrates so you can use the app.

First you run the installer to install the Strobelight refreshrates, and make sure you pick 144hz aswell so you can toggle it on and off via the App called: Strobelight.exe (Looks like a lightbulb) - then reboot the PC, im sure it tells you to do so.

ONce booted again, start the lightbulb, and thats it.
Rightclick the lightbulb in taskbar then and pick a brightness, 10% is the best.

Use Nvidias/AMDs panel to "calibrate" monitor.


----------



## bcooper21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzta09*
> 
> Installer = installs the refreshrates so you can use the app.
> 
> First you run the installer to install the Strobelight refreshrates, and make sure you pick 144hz aswell so you can toggle it on and off via the App called: Strobelight.exe (Looks like a lightbulb) - then reboot the PC, im sure it tells you to do so.
> 
> ONce booted again, start the lightbulb, and thats it.
> Rightclick the lightbulb in taskbar then and pick a brightness, 10% is the best.
> 
> Use Nvidias/AMDs panel to "calibrate" monitor.


Thanks... i never did both lol that explains why i did not notice prob never even had it enabled fully.


----------



## Uraniumz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IronMaiden1973*
> 
> +1 on all that you said mate.. Have you ever seen the movie about the guy who invented the intermittent windshield wiper only to have his idea stolen buy Ford.. Excellent movie.. And this is a prime example..
> I think my money is being held out for the 1440p Asus 27inch monitor.. One first to see how 3 680's push it, then maybe another two a little later.. 27 over a 24 inch monitor is great and all, but 27 really does deserve a higher res.. Lets be real..
> I've just purchased a 8800gt to see if I can get these VG's to work.. I actually bought the card a few days ago and was a little cheesed when I heard the news that the latest drivers work in surround. Alas, now all is not lost..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On a side note Mark. When I tried to flash the firmware with the Dell Laptop the graphics card in the lappy would only output to certain resolutions.. Most were not in sync with the VG. I think 1280 was the best I could use.. AND the biggy was the max the card could see was 85hz.. It was never going to see the true VG 120Hz in its lifetime.. So it never happened. Was worth a try though right? So I have a windows XP 32bit system waiting for the 8800gt to see if I can flash these VG 27's. Should be a couple of days postage.


I'd be interested in your results. I read the "how to" about a week ago but myself nor my friends have a 8800gt laying around. I might buy one and try it out if I get fed up without my lightboosted goodness being gone. Its just such a dramatic change going to triplewidescreen 120hz lightboost. It was very dissapointing going back to three separate screens just to have it work. I really wasn't interested in playing anymore lol, just because I felt I had been handicapped. Its a stupid reason, but the difference was just that dramatic. And fyi I have seen that movie, it was excellent.


----------



## bcooper21

Is making your monitor more pixelated normal? With lightboost its like i can see pixels more makes it worse.

Also i cant get a color i like with lightboost and the 144hz colors were bad enough with lightboost colors are some worst i have seen in my pc gaming history.


----------



## bcooper21

Actually i think i know why i can see pixels slightly easier. My new monitor is closer to me due to the stand it cant be as far back im my head to monitor im only like 1.8 ft away from it and my eyes not sure if thats bad for you but. i have small desk and large ass monitor.

My old monitor was thiner so i was prob like like almost 1 ft closer to screen.

Maybe i should went 1440p







not that notiable just slightly if i look for it. .


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bcooper21*
> 
> Actually i think i know why i can see pixels slightly easier. My new monitor is closer to me due to the stand it cant be as far back im my head to monitor im only like 1.8 ft away from it and my eyes not sure if thats bad for you but. i have small desk and large ass monitor.
> 
> My old monitor was thiner so i was prob like like almost 1 ft closer to screen.
> 
> Maybe i should went 1440p
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not that notiable just slightly if i look for it. .


Do you have glasses?
If so, are they like zoom lenses?
If not then you shouldnt be able to see individual pixels at all unless you sit at 10cm from your screen.

And no, lightboost doesnt affect pixels like that
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bcooper21*
> 
> Is making your monitor more pixelated normal? With lightboost its like i can see pixels more makes it worse.
> 
> Also i cant get a color i like with lightboost and the 144hz colors were bad enough with lightboost colors are some worst i have seen in my pc gaming history.


Calibrate maybe?

Dunno what monitor you got but if it has a gamma setting in it then turn it to whatever has been recommended by tftcentral for instance.
If its a Benq put it at 4 and nvidias at 0.7-8


----------



## bcooper21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzta09*
> 
> Do you have glasses?
> If so, are they like zoom lenses?
> If not then you shouldnt be able to see individual pixels at all unless you sit at 10cm from your screen.
> 
> And no, lightboost doesnt affect pixels like that
> Calibrate maybe?
> 
> Dunno what monitor you got but if it has a gamma setting in it then turn it to whatever has been recommended by tftcentral for instance.
> If its a Benq put it at 4 and nvidias at 0.7-8


Yes i have glasses and they are zoom i need them to drive or see far away. Not sure the exacts or anything but most people who put them on say im blind because there so strong.

I never had it with my older monitor but like i said the display pops out more and has larger stand where last monitor i had was a really so it was about a foot farther back.


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bcooper21*
> 
> Yes i have glasses and they are zoom i need them to drive or see far away. Not sure the exacts or anything but most people who put them on say im blind because there so strong.
> 
> I never had it with my older monitor but like i said the display pops out more and has larger stand where last monitor i had was a really so it was about a foot farther back.


I know about the stand, it is indeed closer. But its not a problem, unless your desk is like 30cm and you sit 10cm from the monitor.

I sit ~40-60cm from the monitor, solid wood desk thats rather deep.

But the pixels shouldnt be poppin out.


----------



## bcooper21

Ok i figured out what it is has to do with the hz of monitor. 144hz is worst it pretty much makes pixels noticeable especially playing league if look at character protract in bottom even 3 ft away i see them.

144hz is pretty much **** gimmick.

Hooked up old monitor side by side and pixels are same in 120hz on new one and old 60hz its just the 144hz that makes image quality so bad.


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bcooper21*
> 
> Ok i figured out what it is has to do with the hz of monitor. 144hz is worst it pretty much makes pixels noticeable especially playing league if look at character protract in bottom even 3 ft away i see them.
> 
> 144hz is pretty much **** gimmick.
> 
> Hooked up old monitor side by side and pixels are same in 120hz on new one and old 60hz its just the 144hz that makes image quality so bad.


Pixels are not changed by hz.

Although I did read on one of the review sites for the ASUS version that 60hz has the best color etc and 120hz is then after that (2nd place) and then lastly is 144hz.

I got no issues with my benq tho. But the pixels shouldnt appear.

Or are you talking about big square blocks? Thats likely too hgih gamma.


----------



## bcooper21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzta09*
> 
> Pixels are not changed by hz.


They are with this monitor i already googled it. First thing people said change hz from 144 to 120.

Maybe its worse colors than make pixels easier to see idk but when i look right up close at monitor switch to 144hz to 120hz the pixels are better.

This is my monitor .

https://www.asus.com/Monitors_Projectors/VG248QE/


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bcooper21*
> 
> They are with this monitor i already googled it. First thing people said change hz from 144 to 120.
> 
> Maybe its worse colors than make pixels easier to see idk but when i look right up close at monitor switch to 144hz to 120hz the pixels are better.
> 
> This is my monitor .
> 
> https://www.asus.com/Monitors_Projectors/VG248QE/


Do you have a camera that could take a picture close up on both modes?!


----------



## Cyro999

You gotta calibrate properly. Pixels don't pop out any more for me than on my previous monitor of similar PPI


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

I love how everyones complaining about the colours of each monitor, when once you turn lightboost on the colours go all screwy anyway









The Asus isnt to bad once its calibrated, still over saturated tho like 99% of TNs


----------



## bcooper21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> You gotta calibrate properly. Pixels don't pop out any more for me than on my previous monitor of similar PPI


I did that used this person settings






144hz Settings:
Brightness: 24
Contrast: 60
Red: 100
Green: 95
Blue: 84
Trace Free: 40

Plus
ICC Profile he linked


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bcooper21*
> 
> I did that used this person settings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 144hz Settings:
> Brightness: 24
> Contrast: 60
> Red: 100
> Green: 95
> Blue: 84
> Trace Free: 40
> 
> Plus
> ICC Profile he linked


Did you go to lagom.nl and do the black level, contrast and white tests?

Did you actually install the ICC profile AND apply it?


----------



## bcooper21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzta09*
> 
> Did you go to lagom.nl and do the black level, contrast and white tests?
> 
> Did you actually install the ICC profile AND apply it?


Yes because i could see colors change when i did but i did not go to lagom.nl


----------



## DesertRat

GSYNC kit for VG248QE _looks_ available, but I cannot for the life of me get it to take my money. Tried Firefox, chrome, and ie trying to place the order. Just loads back to the cart screen.

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/diy

Guess I'll try and order it again tonight after work.


----------



## Z Overlord

Ok Source Engine game players (CSGO, CSS, TF2) as well as anyone who plays any comp in any multiplayer game: Do you think 27" might be too much screen space for comp or just plain ol' serious gaming? I currently have a 24" and I honestly think much more space would be too much to track and might be disadvantageous for gaming. I also wonder if HUD elements might become too small (of course custom HUDs can change this).

Thoughts?


----------



## Cyro999

Personally i think I'd rather have 22" 1080p than 24" and would definitely shy away from 27" - it seems too big when your face is a few feet from the monitor. If you're sat like 3-5 feet away though, it's maybe better.


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Personally i think I'd rather have 22" 1080p than 24" and would definitely shy away from 27" - it seems too big when your face is a few feet from the monitor. If you're sat like 3-5 feet away though, it's maybe better.


Its perfectly fine. Depends on how far away you sit.
I like the bigger size then you dont have to lean towards monitor in order to focus on whats between your crosshair. (i.e. easier to see if enemy is coming at that 1mm doorway or not)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> Ok Source Engine game players (CSGO, CSS, TF2) as well as anyone who plays any comp in any multiplayer game: Do you think 27" might be too much screen space for comp or just plain ol' serious gaming? I currently have a 24" and I honestly think much more space would be too much to track and might be disadvantageous for gaming. I also wonder if HUD elements might become too small (of course custom HUDs can change this).
> 
> Thoughts?


How far away do you sit right now.
Why would the hud get smaller? BIgger monitor = bigger everything, unless the resolution is higher.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzta09*
> 
> Why would the hud get smaller? BIgger monitor = bigger everything, unless the resolution is higher.


Oh I assumed that was given. 2560x1440 27" vs 1920x1080 24"


----------



## bcooper21

Does installing gsync lock out your monitor settings? I watched install video after guy could only change res, hz, and mode.

I guess all tweaks must be done in Nvidia control panel and not monitor menu is it just as good and will it always keep the settings?

Also what is likely hood of doing dmg to monitor taking it apart more or less sensitive than a computer? I never touched inside of one but if i follow guides is should be ok?

Thinkinging of buying the kit any day now.


----------



## bcooper21

27" is to large for completive gaming. If you look at all lcs and esports they dont use over 24" takes longer to look at parts of maps and screen unless your have large desk maybe then its better.


----------



## senna89

cut..


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bcooper21*
> 
> 27" is to large for completive gaming. If you look at all lcs and esports they dont use over 24" takes longer to look at parts of maps and screen unless your have large desk maybe then its better.


Heard of peripheral vision?

In CS you basicly stare at your crosshair 24/7 and just use peripheral for everything else.


----------



## bcooper21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzta09*
> 
> Heard of peripheral vision?
> 
> In CS you basicly stare at your crosshair 24/7 and just use peripheral for everything else.


Then why get bigger screen if your looking at one spot its not better its more expensive.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bcooper21*
> 
> Then why get bigger screen if your looking at one spot its not better its more expensive.


You didn't understand what he said, did you?


----------



## skupples

It's all about distancing.


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

I know this is getting annoying but... are the damn DIY kits out yet? I want one!









Thanks


----------



## Cyro999

They're out in some places


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

What places? the only one I know of that was gonna have them was Overload Computer, but they havent gotten them in yet









Edit, Oh I see the Nvidia store has them but it doesnt look like they ship to Aus, anywhere else have them yet?


----------



## Cyro999

The order site in US came up a little while ago IIRC, and also recently, scan.co.uk put their "we'll use g-sync upgrade kit then send the monitor to you" vg248qe version up as available instead of pre-order.

I'm not paying ~£166 (~$275) to sacrifice a lot of capability on the monitor for gsync though. If it was assured that strobe mode + gsync would work or full money back, i might have considered it


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> *Important questions :*
> 
> I saw a video where shows how install the DIY Kit, and i notice that the kit replace all elettronics of the monitor, remains only the panel with backlight.
> 
> .


i think these are much more important questions
someone can answer please ?


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> The order site in US came up a little while ago IIRC, and also recently, scan.co.uk put their "we'll use g-sync upgrade kit then send the monitor to you" vg248qe version up as available instead of pre-order.
> 
> I'm not paying ~£166 (~$275) to sacrifice a lot of capability on the monitor for gsync though. If it was assured that strobe mode + gsync would work or full money back, i might have considered it


Ah thanks









I thought it was gonna be more around the $200 mark







thats making me not wanting to bother with it now

Edit, Also would G Sync play nice if you only have 1 G Synced monitor to game on and 2 normal monitors sitting idle or would the GPU not like that kinda set up?


----------



## Cyro999

I'm sure it'll probably be ~200 us dollars, however that doesn't really matter for people in the UK and Australia >.>

I'm not sure how gsync would work with multi monitor - i think fine, as long as you're only gaming on one


----------



## Aesthethc

Can someone confirm for me if G-Sync 120hz will be smoother than Lightboost 120hz? From my understanding G-sync matters when you are dipping under your 60fps but if i already have 120hz lightboost is there any benefit upgrading to a Gsync 120hz monitor?


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> i think these are much more important questions
> someone can answer please ?


If you're happy to have a mess of PCBs and cables hanging out and not having everything sealed up inside the monitor then go ahead. The G-SYNC DIY kit for the VG248QE is designed specifically for the VG248QE. It wouldn't fit in the chassis of other 144Hz monitors, the DP, power connectors, LVDS etc. wouldn't line up correctly and may not even reach where they need to on the G-SYNC PCB. All in all you're better waiting for the manufacturers to implement and integrate G-SYNC in their 'G-SYNC ready' monitors. I also hope they give you something a bit better in the way of an OSD and perhaps apply their own little tweaks to make sure these G-SYNC monitors aren't just clones of one another.


----------



## Cyro999

Lightboost vastly reduces motion blur, while g-sync holds the monitor refresh until a frame is ready if frame takes longer than refresh interval (8.34ms on 120hz) but shorter than 33.3ms - they do different things, gsync should remove percieved stutter caused by tearing and some caused by frametime variance, my preference would be lightboost 120hz on what i call "good" engines and g-sync on stuff like battlefield 4 (where there are microstutter issues to some extent) or planetside 2 (where fps can be expected to be far far below triple digit due to cpu limits on haswell @4.7ghz taking you below 60fps for extended periods of time)

Of course, strobe backlight gsync is king.. if/when it's ready


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> I'm sure it'll probably be ~200 us dollars, however that doesn't really matter for people in the UK and Australia >.>
> 
> I'm not sure how gsync would work with multi monitor - i think fine, as long as you're only gaming on one


Yeah $200 is fine for US, for Aus, NZ, UK etc once currency conversion and shipping comes into it your looking at what... $250 - $300 or more? bit unfair seeing here in Aus were paying nearly $1000 for the 780 TIs









I hope it does work well without putting more stress on the GPU then normal, if not then it wouldnt be worth it in the slightest from my point of view


----------



## Aesthethc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Lightboost vastly reduces motion blur, while g-sync holds the monitor refresh until a frame is ready if frame takes longer than refresh interval (8.34ms on 120hz) but shorter than 33.3ms - they do different things, gsync should remove percieved stutter caused by tearing and some caused by frametime variance, my preference would be lightboost 120hz on what i call "good" engines and g-sync on stuff like battlefield 4 (where there are microstutter issues to some extent) or planetside 2 (where fps can be expected to be far far below triple digit due to cpu limits on haswell @4.7ghz taking you below 60fps for extended periods of time)
> 
> Of course, strobe backlight gsync is king.. if/when it's ready


So G-sync is hardware v-sync and strobed G-sync is not out yet? So if your GPU already puts out more than 120fps @ 120hz then G-Sync is practically useless? Ive never had stutter or tearing since im using a 120hz monitor.

So basically until there is a "strobing" Gsync there is no reason to upgrade at all to a new monitor? And if you do the gsync mod.... that will completely remove strobing? As in, you cant switch between Gsync mode and Lightboost mode easily ?


----------



## senna89

*Important questions :*

I saw a video where shows how install the DIY Kit, and i notice that the kit replace all elettronics of the monitor, remains only the panel with backlight.
Quote:


> 1 ) But ......... *if Asus VG248QE, Benq XL2420TE, AOC G2460 and Philips 242G5 use the same panel, the same DIY kit available now will be compatible with all this models ?*


Quote:


> 2 ) And ..... *if yes, if you install this DIY kit whit same panel for both monitors this means that all this products will become the same ( same elettronics + same panel )* where the difference will be only the cover and the backlight spec ?
> 
> For example the "_Asus VG248QE G-Synch_" will be almost same to "_Benq XL2420G_" only whitout flicker free features ?


Quote:


> 3 ) And the special features like flicker-free on Benq for example with DIY kit will be delete ?


.


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> If you're happy to have a mess of PCBs and cables hanging out and not having everything sealed up inside the monitor then go ahead. The G-SYNC DIY kit for the VG248QE is designed specifically for the VG248QE. It wouldn't fit in the chassis of other 144Hz monitors, the DP, power connectors, LVDS etc. wouldn't line up correctly and may not even reach where they need to on the G-SYNC PCB. All in all you're better waiting for the manufacturers to implement and integrate G-SYNC in their 'G-SYNC ready' monitors. I also hope they give you something a bit better in the way of an OSD and perhaps apply their own little tweaks to make sure these G-SYNC monitors aren't just clones of one another.


Ok but the image quality will be the same to the others product Benq, Viewsonic, Philis ecc ?
The gamma setting missing in the Asus will be fixed by this new card and new OSD ?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> So if your GPU already puts out more than 120fps @ 120hz then G-Sync is practically useless?


If all of your frames take ~8.4ms, then g-sync is essentially just v-sync. There's an inherant variability in game engines though, and even if FPS meter says 140 for example, you can have many frametimes not fast enough to meet a static 120hz monitor refresh. If a frame takes 9.4ms instead of ~8.34ms, g-sync will just wait 1ms longer before refreshing the screen - instead of the current alternatives, which are: Wait another 8.34ms and hit the next refresh cycle (vsync) OR cut into the frame ~13% of the way into refresh cycle, tearing the screen 13% down and losing the top 13% of that frame as it'll never be displayed

Frames actually look like this, if you look deeper than an averaged FPS display:



That's a rather good engine - many are worse, with more variance. Battlefield 4 is terrible for this, at least on some settings.
Quote:


> Ive never had stutter or tearing since im using a 120hz monitor.


You just won't really see tearing often without it pointed out (tbh i don't see it as much on this monitor as my last) but light perceived stutters caused by it should be annoying, it's worse around low FPS, and when you're almost but not quite at the refresh rate of your monitor (~45-50fps on 60hz screen on one of the scenes of heaven 4.0 had lots of tear-stutters for me before when it was panning.. but it's fine on this monitor, same hardware and fps)

If you really don't see it, it may take just looking at a gsync monitor vs a regular one. This tech will benefit me because i notice some stuff like this sometimes - but it's a question of how much, and i fully expect a big crowd of people to not even see a difference, as it's not the biggest thing in the world, it's "just" a quality of life tech. It'll affect gameplay less than backlight strobe, IMO. However, quality of life is not necessarily a bad thing.
Quote:


> So basically until there is a "strobing" Gsync there is no reason to upgrade at all to a new monitor? And if you do the gsync mod.... that will completely remove strobing? As in, you cant switch between Gsync mode and Lightboost mode easily ?


You should be able to switch between g-sync and lightboost mode, AFAIK. Gsync modded vg248qe loses a lot of monitor settings though. You >CANNOT< right now use both strobing and variable refresh rate (gsync) at the same time, AFAIK


----------



## Aesthethc

Thanks for the refresh, i already know plenty of this as ive lurked this thread for a very long time now









But my main concerns now is

1) I dont use any of the monitors features
2) I just use lightboost 120hz
3) I play Medium Settings and Ultra Mesh with some AA and i average 120+ when flying (i am a helicopter pilot).
4) Will G-sync DIY chip be available for the VG278HE? If so, will i be able to keep lightboost? Is there an easy switch between G-sync and Lightboost where ill use Lightboost when flying and then switch it over to Gsync when im playing infantry and the textures are a lot more detailed?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> 4) Will G-sync DIY chip be available for the VG278HE?


As far as i know, no. It could even be entirely exclusive to the vg248qe
Quote:


> Is there an easy switch between G-sync and Lightboost where ill use Lightboost when flying and then switch it over to Gsync when im playing infantry and the textures are a lot more detailed?


You could play in windowed fullscreen and use toastyX lightboost tool to enable/disable strobing, but since g-sync is a dropdown in the GPU driver where forcing vsync on is etc.. wouldn't surprise me if it requires a game restart to turn gsync on


----------



## Aesthethc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> As far as i know, no. It could even be entirely exclusive to the vg248qe
> You could play in windowed fullscreen and use toastyX lightboost tool to enable/disable strobing, but since g-sync is a dropdown in the GPU driver where forcing vsync on is etc.. wouldn't surprise me if it requires a game restart to turn gsync on


Thanks for your input, ill be looking around some more for additional info when its released.

Im not prepared to spend a whole bunch of money on a monitor that will give me no additional benefit when i can just buy a new GPU or something and get gains from that....


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> Ok but the image quality will be the same to the others product Benq, Viewsonic, Philis ecc ?
> The gamma setting missing in the Asus will be fixed by this new card and new OSD ?


If you're looking at monitors with G-SYNC integrated in then I am quite confident the manufacturers will have their own tweaks done to the G-SYNC board. BenQ's XL2420G/XL2720G, for example, includes 'Low Blue Light' presets, a flicker free backlight and 'three new gaming modes'. Plus they have their S-Switch. To me this suggests they will have a more complete OSD system compared to the DIY-modded VG248QE. And that there are additional 'BenQ electronics' or BenQ-specific tweaks made to the G-SYNC electronics.


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> If you're looking at monitors with G-SYNC integrated in then I am quite confident the manufacturers will have their own tweaks done to the G-SYNC board. BenQ's XL2420G/XL2720G, for example, includes 'Low Blue Light' presets, a flicker free backlight and 'three new gaming modes'. Plus they have their S-Switch. To me this suggests they will have a more complete OSD system compared to the DIY-modded VG248QE. And that there are additional 'BenQ electronics' or BenQ-specific tweaks made to the G-SYNC electronics.


ok








but the gamma issue of Asus depends by its elettronic card and OSD settings, whit GSynch card this can be fixed or you think will keep the same profiles ?


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> ok
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but the gamma issue of Asus depends by its elettronic card and OSD settings, whit GSynch card this can be fixed or you think will keep the same profiles ?


Good question... It should look different with the G-SYNC DIY board because you've ripped out all the ASUS electronics. But whether it will look better, I don't know!


----------



## senna89

Ah ok, thank you PCM2








gentlemen like ever
im waiting your review about


----------



## TiezZ BE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bcooper21*
> 
> Does installing gsync lock out your monitor settings? I watched install video after guy could only change res, hz, and mode.
> 
> I guess all tweaks must be done in Nvidia control panel and not monitor menu is it just as good and will it always keep the settings?
> 
> Also what is likely hood of doing dmg to monitor taking it apart more or less sensitive than a computer? I never touched inside of one but if i follow guides is should be ok?
> 
> Thinkinging of buying the kit any day now.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1455771/first-hand-experiences-with-g-sync/20#post_21529842
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Good news, there's now a way to adjust color on the VG248QE G-SYNC monitor, by using an external app controlling the monitor's adjustments:
> G-SYNC monitor color adjustment HOWTO
> 
> It also even works inside video games, too!


----------



## TiezZ BE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> Good question... It should look different with the G-SYNC DIY board because you've ripped out all the ASUS electronics. But whether it will look better, I don't know!


Do you know anything about the release date of the DIY kit in europe?


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiezZ BE*
> 
> Do you know anything about the release date of the DIY kit in europe?


Unfortunately not.


----------



## bcooper21

So what is difference in display port? Never had any experience with it but from what i under stand its the future will once we move past 1080p tvs since hdmi cant display 4k. The nvidia gsync only supports it at least in DIY kit is it better quality than dlink div or will you not notice any difference?


----------



## bcooper21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiezZ BE*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1455771/first-hand-experiences-with-g-sync/20#post_21529842


So nvidia control panel does not work why do i need use app in theory nvidia control panel should work or not in games?


----------



## TiezZ BE

DP


----------



## TiezZ BE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bcooper21*
> 
> So nvidia control panel does not work why do i need use app in theory nvidia control panel should work or not in games?


I don't know if adjusting color etc in NV control panel will work, but I assume that you can control the monitor itself when using this app (through the DP cable). I'd rather control my monitor instead of the output of the graphics card through NV control panel.

FYI: DP isn't THE future, you mention current HDMI1.4 can't support 4K TV's, but HDMI 2.0 is coming and will solve this problem for TV's.
But DP is pretty good (better than HDMI) imo, they're also improving and are more or less 1 step ahead of HDMI (bandwith wise) and manufacturers don't have to pay royalty fees for installing DP connections in devices.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> is it better quality than dlink div or will you not notice any difference?


DVI, HDMI and Displayport are lossless, digital connections. They're all the same (perfect) quality


----------



## bcooper21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> DVI, HDMI and Displayport are lossless, digital connections. They're all the same (perfect) quality


So no difference from what i under stand display port is royalty free so alot new stuff is using it.

Also according to searches

It has the highest bandwidth so can support higher resolutions like 4K or a possible 1440p @120hz

So guess new 1440p 120hz from asus will display port.


----------



## EPiiKK

Im using Strobelight on benq XL2411T i absolutely love the lightboost in cs:go!
Only issue is that i forget to turn it on sometimes....
Is there any way of getting lightboost to start with windows?


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EPiiKK*
> 
> Im using Strobelight on benq XL2411T i absolutely love the lightboost in cs:go!
> Only issue is that i forget to turn it on sometimes....
> Is there any way of getting lightboost to start with windows?


Add it to autostart


----------



## EPiiKK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzta09*
> 
> Add it to autostart











Ofc, what a noob am i


----------



## Pheozero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bcooper21*
> 
> So no difference from what i under stand display port is royalty free so alot new stuff is using it.
> 
> Also according to searches
> 
> It has the highest bandwidth so can support higher resolutions like 4K or a possible 1440p @120hz
> 
> So guess new 1440p 120hz from asus will display port.


It only has DP as a connection. Everything else is USB 3.0


----------



## bcooper21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EPiiKK*
> 
> Im using Strobelight on benq XL2411T i absolutely love the lightboost in cs:go!
> Only issue is that i forget to turn it on sometimes....
> Is there any way of getting lightboost to start with windows?


Copy to app into start up folder.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EPiiKK*
> 
> Im using Strobelight on benq XL2411T i absolutely love the lightboost in cs:go!
> Only issue is that i forget to turn it on sometimes....
> Is there any way of getting lightboost to start with windows?


You got question answered, but that makes me wonder: Is it just me that doesn't want to run strobe backlight 12 hours a day? I've used it for a couple weeks in certain games - but it feels like a terrible idea to run it literally constantly - no headache problems etc?


----------



## EPiiKK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> You got question answered, but that makes me wonder: Is it just me that doesn't want to run strobe backlight 12 hours a day? I've used it for a couple weeks in certain games - but it feels like a terrible idea to run it literally constantly - no headache problems etc?


I havent tried yet


----------



## Rickles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> You got question answered, but that makes me wonder: Is it just me that doesn't want to run strobe backlight 12 hours a day? I've used it for a couple weeks in certain games - but it feels like a terrible idea to run it literally constantly - no headache problems etc?


I run it 24/7 on my main monitor and have 2 other monitors for everything else.


----------



## Cyro999

And no issues? Hm, guess i didn't have any for a while, but it was a pain at first


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> And no issues? Hm, guess i didn't have any for a while, but it was a pain at first


Do you have good eyesight? I know sitting infront of a monitor without glasses/contacts combined with less than good eyesight can lead to migraines, headaches, tense feeling in face. Especially if youre used to a particular monitor and you go to another monitor with different lighting, size etc.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Do you have good eyesight? I know sitting infront of a monitor without glasses/contacts combined with less than good eyesight can lead to migraines, headaches, tense feeling in face.


I'm short sighted, but my vision is at least average at a few feet, maybe even above average. I'd need glasses to meet a driving test requirement of reading a number plate from like 20 meters though

I might not have issues now, but i did at first (and i used lightboost at higher brightness then, like 50-100% - i use 10% now)


----------



## Uraniumz

Thought I'd chime in. I run lightboost 24/7 and haven't had a single headache. I wear contacts because I have horrible vision. Its hands down the smoothest experience, and you certainly don't appreciate it until you step back down to 60hz or 120 without lightboost. Then the effect is really noticeable.


----------



## Scorpion667

I also use lightboost 24/7 no issues


----------



## Rickles

For me, I am starting to think that most of my headaches from gaming were due to blur, I haven't had any with lightboost. I usually use 100%, but when I remember to I switch to 10%.

I wear glasses/contacts.


----------



## Jack Mac

I can't use my monitor without LB, I love it. I do 30% because it's a balance between 10 and 50%.


----------



## Z Overlord

I wish Asus would make a 24" version of their ROG Swift monitor. It seems like the perfect monitor, but 27" is just too big.


----------



## Connolly

A question for any fellow Eizo FG2421 owners:

Do you notice any flicker when in strobe mode at all? It's barely perceivable, but when on the desktop or anything with a reasonably plain background I can now notice a very small amount, just enough to be annoying now that I know it's there. I've had the monitor for over a month now and only noticed it for the first time last night, I'm wondering if it has always been there or if it's a new defect.

Any feedback appreciated.

Edit: Feel free to point out that this is a perfectly normal side effect of having strobe mode enabled, I just assumed that the "flicker free technology" that Eizo boasted of would be referring to this.


----------



## PCM2

Strobe backlights by their vary nature 'flicker'. Some people are sensitive to it, others aren't. The behaviour is very similar to a CRT set to the same refresh rate (120Hz). Look at the EIZO using your peripheral vision (to the side of the monitor) when using Turbo240 and compare with Turbo240 disabled. 'Flicker free' can only ever refer to a monitor with a constantly illuminated backlight - i.e. the EIZO with Turbo240 disabled, not using PWM to modulate brightness (or using a very high frequency at low brightness).


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Uraniumz*
> 
> I'd be interested in your results. I read the "how to" about a week ago but myself nor my friends have a 8800gt laying around. I might buy one and try it out if I get fed up without my lightboosted goodness being gone. Its just such a dramatic change going to triplewidescreen 120hz lightboost. It was very dissapointing going back to three separate screens just to have it work. I really wasn't interested in playing anymore lol, just because I felt I had been handicapped. Its a stupid reason, but the difference was just that dramatic. And fyi I have seen that movie, it was excellent.


Well, today I have decided to pull the pin on 2d Surround. For the time being anyway. Technology just isnt good enough yet..

The 8800gt arrived and I installed it. Got the old PC up and running and started having problems. XP was needing this done for the drivers to be installed. It wanted that done for Powerstrip to be installed. And then there was this, and then that.. .. And then I got to thinking.. If I cant play current a near future games at a solid 120Hz for Lightboost, whats the point of doing the mod?!?. Lightboost and 2d surround worked excellent for BF3 but times moving on and BF4 for one needs more power and so will other games too.

So I ran some tests. First was 2d surround. (remember no lightboost) For BF4 on the campaign, with Ultra settings and everything maxed in the nvidia CP the most I could get was around 50-60 steady frames. It looked really choppy and for a FPS shooter was basically not playable for me.. In order for me to have this particular game running at 120Hz was to set everything to "crap" setting. (low) and lowest settings in the nvidia CP. Even then there would be dips from 120 down to 100 and back up.. And often enough to be a little annoying if Lightboost was indeed running. .. I then ran BF4 in the campaign on Ultra and nvidia CP maxed but on just a single monitor and with the three 680's now SLIed. AND with lightboost on, something that couldn't be done on the span display..

Now can I say ****. People!.. When you have a game FULLY locked at 120Hz.. And I mean locked that it never moves.. Lightboost is like looking at pure CRT.. I can honestly say I've never used lightboost properly the way it should be until this test day.. When I first tried a single monitor Lightboost test ages ago when lightboost worked in surround as well, I only had two 680's. I then got another 680 for surround and just sat on that 24/7.. I never tried single monitor in tri SLI.. This is a game changer.. I played through the same level in BF4 on the single monitor and lightboost and then back to back played the same level but in triple span display.. The game play didn't even match up. I wouldn't even rate then in the same group. The peripheral view of 2d surround (which is frankly the whole reason you want it) is totally negated by the drastic lowering of eye candy and the constant dips from 120.. To run a good game on high or ultra settings while using 2d surround needs more VRAM than a single monitor (duh I know). And from what I've experienced in games like BF3, BF4, Crysis, Drift 3 that they all used more than 3 gig of vram when you canked the eye candy settings.. Now to me that means the only cards on the market today are the Titan 6Gb and the 680 4Gb..

So I'm now about to sell my two VG278HEs and sit on this single VG278H and use lightboost for a few months with a solid 120Hz locked, until the Asus 1440p is released and get one of those. Cant wait for a 27" with 1440p and a gamer.. Its what the 27" niche is missing..


----------



## Canis-X

How does one fully lock their FPS at 120 other than using VSYNC (which introduces mouse input lag)?


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X*
> 
> How does one fully lock their FPS at 120 other than using VSYNC (which introduces mouse input lag)?


Rivatuner Statistics Server that comes with Afterburner/PrecisionX.

Open it and you can limit FPS in any game you want, individually, or globally for all fo them.


----------



## EPiiKK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X*
> 
> How does one fully lock their FPS at 120 other than using VSYNC (which introduces mouse input lag)?


fps_max 121

if i put it to 120 it stays at 119 all the time...


----------



## Canis-X

Is this really needed though? Is there any benefit to locking in the fps to 120 when using LB (or not)?

Also, what are the best settings to use (monitor OCD, nVidia, etc...)?


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X*
> 
> Is this really needed though? Is there any benefit to locking in the fps to 120 when using LB (or not)?


Less tearing. (I nevern otice any)
Less fps fluctuations.
Less GPU strain.

Better imo.


----------



## CallsignVega

I believe the trick they were mentioning if using V-Sync on at 120 Hz, was set your FPS max in RivaTuner statistics server or the game itself to 118. This reduces the input lag of V-Sync. Always make sure triple buffering is on when able to further reduce input lag.


----------



## Canis-X

Ok, so let me see if I got this right..... If I am using LB (120), I should use V-SYNC and then use FPS Max in RivaTuner Statistics Server (118). Is it a must to using V_SYNC if using LB or can it be left off? I heard some say yes, but have also heard some say no you don't need it at all so I was curious. I do notice that with LB enabled (120) some eye strain occur.....not quite sure how to explain it but the picture looks a bit "off" so I was wondering if I was over looking the Max FPS locking and/or V_SYNC as part of the LB experience.

Also, what settings do you use CallsignVega (Monitor OSD, LB, nVidia or otherwise)?


----------



## EPiiKK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EPiiKK*
> 
> fps_max 121
> 
> if i put it to 120 it stays at 119 all the time...


Lol i thought this is the cs:go club thread. Had too many tabs on, sorry! That command only works in valve games like cs:go and and Dota2


----------



## jderbs

I have a surround setup and since Nvidia has broken surround+LB with all of their latest drivers I was wondering if there's a way to just have LB on my center screen? Is there a particular method I can use to at least have where all the action is LB enabled and still enjoy my surround?

PS screw you and your gsync nvidia.


----------



## Canis-X

AH, Really!? The current drivers broke it!? Meh.....


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X*
> 
> AH, Really!? The current drivers broke it!? Meh.....


Every driver since like September surround+LB has been broken. Instantly crashes your pc or drivers.


----------



## bcooper21

Lightboost still work with gsync installed? Just wondering because gsync seems to replace everything in monitor besides actual panel.


----------



## IronMaiden1973

The way I understood lightboost was that the hardware all works in sync to its utter best if set at 120hz.. I think, and I remember reading this somewhere, that 110hz and 100hz actually look worse in testing because of the hardware characteristics. They have been included in strobelight beta to give more options to those with rigs that cant stay at 120hz but can stay at 110 or 100Hz.. Fluctuating either up in fps (using v-sync off and just using lightboost) or down in fps still produces lightboost style gameplay but not at its perfect level. I could be totally wrong on all that though.. Mark can help on this I'm sure.

My settings for lightboost at 120hz on a Asus VG278H :
In Nvidia CP: V-sync: on, triple buffer: on, *Prefered refresh rate: highest available*,
In Nvidia CP desktop color settings: Brightness: 55, Contrast 47, Gamma: 1.20-1.30, Digital Brightness: 55
Monitor OSD: For color I'm using the user mode and have Red: 100, Green: 100, Blue: 100, Contrast: 70, Lightboost: 10% (which is usually one notch above fully off)

By setting the prefered refresh rate to highest available, turning vsync on, turning triple buffering on to minimise mouse lag, having your resolution set to 120Hz (and most importantly have a pc that wants to push past 120 fps in games) will give your pc a "locked" 120hz.. There will be zero screen tearing and your fps will not go past 120 and because of the power of the pc should never dip below 120 either.. "locked"?

This is an excellent place to read all about Lightboost guys.. I've seen a lot of questions been asked and I know the answers are here. In the Lightboost FAQ.

http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost-faq/

I thought this was very interesting..

"Photodiode oscilloscope test:
LightBoost OSD setting at 100% = 2.4 millisecond strobes
LightBoost OSD setting at 10% = 1.4 millisecond strobes

I am testing new motion tests. It's amazing to see an ASUS VG278H (a 2ms TN LCD) shatter the pixel persistence barrier with an actual measured Motion Picture Response Time (MPRT) of 1.4ms. Truly, modern strobe backlights are amazing! CRT-style motion clarity is now here today on LCD.

Although TN color is not very good, the motion is more than 10x sharper than a 60 Hz LCD (TN or IPS) due to 1.4ms strobes instead of 16.7ms frames (1/60sec) due to the sample-and-hold effect. Strobe backlights do not suffer from backlight diffusion effects (found in older scanning backlights), and thus have no upper limiting factor in motion blur elimination. Motion blur is shown to be accurately directly proportional to strobe length. Such short strobe lengths yields a high-definition motion experience where fast video game pans look exactly as sharp as stationary images.

The new 1ms monitors are better due to reduced crosstalk - the BENQ XL2411T (which I also own) and the ASUS VG248QE have the clearest LightBoost motion. Ghosting tests have shown less than 0.5% leakage of frames between refreshes; and there is less 3D crosstalk on these panels than for polarized 3D (which is _very_ surprising). Although I prefer to play 2D without the motion blur; it's much easier on my eyes.

*If you do not care about color, but want the world's sharpest fast motion on a non-CRT display, there is no commercially available display other than a LightBoost display today. Actual measured MPRT's shattering the pixel persistence barrier!*

Hopefully this technology arrives on IPS and PVA panels within a few years!"

So if you can, always set lightboost to 10% on the monitor..


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Although TN color is not very good, the motion is more than 10x sharper than a 60 Hz LCD (TN or IPS) due to 1.4ms strobes instead of 16.7ms frames (1/60sec)


12x !









16.667/1.4 = 11.905


----------



## TiezZ BE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> 12x !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 16.667/1.4 = 11.905


----------



## shedokan

Any improvements/updates regarding the colours/settings on VG248QE with LB? eliminate the red crimson tint etc? I haven't been following this thread for some months


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> 12x !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 16.667/1.4 = 11.905


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiezZ BE*


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> 12x !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 16.667/1.4 = 11.905


Yep.

Even that's not the final frontier, with some future adjustable-persistence strobe backlights.

The BENQ XL2720Z with the fixed firmware, has BENQ Blur Reduction capable of adjustable persistence (strobe lengths) all the way down to ~0.5ms through some undocumented adjustments that I'll publicize. The picture is dim -- you only get 25cd/m2 brightness. Here, it is much dimmer than LightBoost 10%. However, it is the first LCD I've ever seen with sub-millisecond measured persistence. That said, wait until the XL2720Z with the fixed firmwares comes out, first -- there's a strobe phase timing bug, currently, with the BENQ XL2720Z, that I have discovered and reported to BENQ already. If any of you are looking to get the XL2720Z, wait until the fixed firmware is in the monitors.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Yep.
> 
> Even that's not the final frontier, with some future strobe backlights.
> 
> The BENQ XL2720Z with the fixed firmware, is capable of strobe lengths all the way down to ~0.5ms through some undocumented adjustments that I'll publicize. The picture is dim -- you only get 25cd/m2 brightness. Here, it is much dimmer than LightBoost 10%. However, it is the first LCD I've ever seen with sub-millisecond measured persistence. That said, wait until the XL2720Z with the fixed firmwares comes out, first -- there's a strobe phase timing bug, currently, with the BENQ XL2720Z, that I have discovered and reported to BENQ already. If any of you are looking to get the XL2720Z, wait until the fixed firmware is in the monitors.


Daayum.

10% lightboost isn't too dim for me, even in lit room on vg248qe - what's strobe lengh then do you know? (for vg248qe @10%) I know of the cd/m2 scale, but i have no actual picture of what it should look like at any given level.

I'd love to see the difference between ~0.5ms and ~1.4ms, but compared to a random 60hz tn, lightboost @10% is godly. On tests like the moving picture with writing on testufo, it's somewhat easy to read the writing until the picture is moving too fast to comfortably track (1920px+/second), but getting closer and closer to "perfect" is appealing


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jderbs*
> 
> I have a surround setup and since Nvidia has broken surround+LB with all of their latest drivers I was wondering if there's a way to just have LB on my center screen? Is there a particular method I can use to at least have where all the action is LB enabled and still enjoy my surround?
> 
> PS screw you and your gsync nvidia.


Just tried the old method of manually enabling LB on one monitor with CRU and then editing all the resolutions via the nvidia control panel and it's still no dice. Surround just won't enable with any monitor having LB enabled.

SERIOUSLY **** nvidia right about now.


----------



## jderbs

*I JUST GOT SURROUND+LB TO WORK ON 332.21 WHQL DRIVERS*

I originally just wanted to get LB on my center monitor only because I've started playing a lot of CS:GO. When I did the following steps it was magically enabled on all of my monitors when surround was enabled.

Here's what I did (make sure your nvidia ctrl panel is set to Active All Displays, not surround)

1) Forget the strobelight program, it's useless in this application. You have to have CRU.exe. If you can figure it out with strobelight, cool.
2) Use CRU.exe to manually edit ALL of your monitors' Product IDs to ACI27F8
3) Leave all of the default resolutions there for your monitors and add this to only your main monitor's resolutions manually

4) Close down CRU and restart your computer
5) Open CRU and ensure that all of your monitors have the new product ID and the new resolution is on your main monitor
6) Use Windows to set all of your monitors to 60hz
7) Open Nvidia control panel and start the configuration for surround. If you followed this properly the ****ty nvidia drivers should be tricked into thinking everything is fine with the monitors and you haven't messed with their IDs. I think that's how nvidia is trying to shut us down.
8) Run through the surround setup
9) Set your "surround" to 120hz
10) Boom - Lightboost surround on all of your monitors

This was driving me crazy. If it doesn't work for some of you, I might have to add steps to add custom resolutions to the nvidia control panel as well.

EDIT:

After further testing I can't get around this being undone once you reboot or shutdown your pc. You don't need to do the entire process again, but you have to disable surround and then re-enable it. A pain in the butt for now. If anyone can figure out a quick workaround that'd be awesome.


----------



## Uraniumz

Definitely trying this the second I get home. I miss my LB something fierce...


----------



## jerrolds

Hey Mdrejhon - what do you think of AMD's "FreeSync" tech? Looks like it wont need any hardware changes if you have decently newer AMD GPUs and if your panel lets you control VBLANK intervals (which might just be a driver thing?)?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Looks like it wont need any hardware changes if you have decently newer AMD GPUs and if your panel lets you control VBLANK intervals


r9 series does not support dp1.3 and your current screen probably does not either


----------



## jerrolds

Really? Cuz it was demoed at CES 2014 using a Toshiba Satellite Click (tablet) which was released last year.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7641/amd-demonstrates-freesync-free-gsync-alternative-at-ces-2014
Quote:


> In the case of the Toshiba Satellite Click, the panel already supports variable VBLANK. AMD's display engines have supported variable VBLANK for a couple of generations, and that extends all the way down to APUs. The Satellite Click in question uses AMD's low cost Kabini APU, which already has the requisite hardware to support variable VBLANK and thus variable display refresh rates (Kaveri as well as AMD's latest GPUs should support it as well). AMD simply needed driver support for controlling VBLANK timing, which is present in the latest Catalyst drivers


Quote:


> If variable VBLANK control is indeed integrated into all modern AMD GPUs, that means the Xbox One and PS4 should also have support for this.


Sound like its already in new Radeon APUs and GPUs? I dont see any mention that DP1.3 is required for this. Do you have any sources?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jerrolds*
> 
> Really? Cuz it was demoed at CES 2014 using a Toshiba Satellite Click (tablet) which was released last year.
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/7641/amd-demonstrates-freesync-free-gsync-alternative-at-ces-2014
> 
> Sound like its already in new Radeon APUs and GPUs? I dont see any mention that DP1.3 is required for this. Do you have any sources?


It's common knowledge in the freesync threads, the GPU's support it, but the gpu's do not have DP1.3 support. DP1.3 is a requirement for freesync on desktop screens, but laptops/tablets/etc use another version of displayport which allows it to work - on them only. Currently it looks like we have to buy new graphics cards >and< new screens for freesync support, if/when it is ready and released properly.

I was dissapointed by the amount of hype by people not knowing these things, even a lot today don't realize it but i was skeptical before. Looks like best option for me is to sit on vg248qe for a while, and maybe there'll be a reasonable option for a new monitor soon that has strobe backlight and also gsync support for free or at a small and reasonable premium (replacing the entire pcb of a vg248qe and losing color adjustment etc for g-sync is too costly and a joke at >>$250) maybe freesync would be acceptable too, but it seems gsync has a few advantages (less buffering, hardware solution) and neither are realistically available to me or anyone without spending a bunch of money now, so we have to see how things are in q2 for g-sync, and later this year or next for dp1.3 and freesync


----------



## jerrolds

Ah i see - thanks for the heads up


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jerrolds*
> 
> Hey Mdrejhon - what do you think of AMD's "FreeSync" tech? Looks like it wont need any hardware changes if you have decently newer AMD GPUs and if your panel lets you control VBLANK intervals (which might just be a driver thing?)?


FreeSync has a lot of promise to keep this a two-horse race, especially in highly-overclockable laptop LCD's (like this laptop LCD that successfully overclocked to 180Hz). G-SYNC will probably be more popular because of the huge backing behind it right now, but if FreeSync can take advantage of these highly overclockable laptop LCD controllers, this could attract low-lag lovers, if they're able to avoid any software-based buffering (that adds latency). I did hear there was more buffering with FreeSync, but would theoretically be a simple modification to avoid eventually (I'd hope). And pressure is now upon gaming monitor makers to add VRR technology as a bullet point. I'd love it to also come to HDTVs, eventually, too.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jderbs*
> 
> *I JUST GOT SURROUND+LB TO WORK ON 332.21 WHQL DRIVERS*


Good job! Mind if I crosspost your instructions at Blur Busters? (if you haven't)
Your instructions are important to people who spent four-figure $$$$ on their setups and terribly miss their LightBoost. It's for the public good.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Good job! Mind if I crosspost your instructions at Blur Busters? (if you haven't)
> Your instructions are important to people who spent four-figure $$$$ on their setups and terribly miss their LightBoost. It's for the public good.


People will die if we don't fix their strobe backlights, plz


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Good job! Mind if I crosspost your instructions at Blur Busters? (if you haven't)
> Your instructions are important to people who spent four-figure $$$$ on their setups and terribly miss their LightBoost. It's for the public good.


Feel free, but unfortunately it's far from perfect. The LB is undone on reboot or shutdown (you have to re-enable surround using my instructions) and some applications are just not cooperative. Nvidia really tried to screw us over here.


----------



## kevindd992002

If you have the option to use DP or DVI, which is the way to go? I'm currently using dual link DVI and just noticed that my screen and GPU has DP ports.


----------



## TiezZ BE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I was dissapointed by the amount of hype by people not knowing these things, even a lot today don't realize it but i was skeptical before. Looks like best option for me is to sit on vg248qe for a while, and maybe there'll be a reasonable option for a new monitor soon that has strobe backlight and also gsync support for free or at a small and reasonable premium
> 
> 
> (replacing the entire pcb of a vg248qe and losing color adjustment etc for g-sync is too costly and a joke at >>$250) maybe freesync would be acceptable too, but it seems gsync has a few advantages (less buffering, hardware solution) and neither are realistically available to me or anyone without spending a bunch of money now, so we have to see how things are in q2 for g-sync, and later this year or next for dp1.3 and freesync


Color adjustments should be possible with the G-sync module/pcb installed. Check:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1455771/first-hand-experiences-with-g-sync/20#post_21529842

People in US/Canada can get it for 200. That still isn't cheap but I'lm probably going to get it if they don't bump up the price for the euro market.

The thing I dislike about the PCB is that I lose my HDMI port, so I can't use it anymore to connect my settop box. I didn't use my monitor a lot for that, but still, annoying...


----------



## Canis-X

Ordered my third ASUS VG248QE today. I hope the 3 monitor LB trick still works by the time it comes in and get it all setup!!


----------



## Uraniumz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jderbs*
> 
> *I JUST GOT SURROUND+LB TO WORK ON 332.21 WHQL DRIVERS*
> 
> I originally just wanted to get LB on my center monitor only because I've started playing a lot of CS:GO. When I did the following steps it was magically enabled on all of my monitors when surround was enabled.
> 
> Here's what I did (make sure your nvidia ctrl panel is set to Active All Displays, not surround)
> 
> 1) Forget the strobelight program, it's useless in this application. You have to have CRU.exe. If you can figure it out with strobelight, cool.
> 2) Use CRU.exe to manually edit ALL of your monitors' Product IDs to ACI27F8
> 3) Leave all of the default resolutions there for your monitors and add this to only your main monitor's resolutions manually
> 
> 4) Close down CRU and restart your computer
> 5) Open CRU and ensure that all of your monitors have the new product ID and the new resolution is on your main monitor
> 6) Use Windows to set all of your monitors to 60hz
> 7) Open Nvidia control panel and start the configuration for surround. If you followed this properly the ****ty nvidia drivers should be tricked into thinking everything is fine with the monitors and you haven't messed with their IDs. I think that's how nvidia is trying to shut us down.
> 8) Run through the surround setup
> 9) Set your "surround" to 120hz
> 10) Boom - Lightboost surround on all of your monitors
> 
> This was driving me crazy. If it doesn't work for some of you, I might have to add steps to add custom resolutions to the nvidia control panel as well.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> After further testing I can't get around this being undone once you reboot or shutdown your pc. You don't need to do the entire process again, but you have to disable surround and then re-enable it. A pain in the butt for now. If anyone can figure out a quick workaround that'd be awesome.


Jderbs,

I tried this out, but I could not get it to work. I have a couple questions.

Having strobelight already setup, I removed it from the startup folder, exited out of it, and used the setup.exe to restore the monitors resolutions back to default.

I then used Cru.exe to rename ALL of the monitors Product ID's it listed to ACI24F8 ( versus your ACI27F8, I assume you have the VG247QE 27" model?). I changed the three that showed as active, as well as the others listed that were named Generic PnP, 2x Nvidia Surround's, and one other one. Where I got lost was knowing which of the 3 listed as active was my main monitor, so I knew where to add the resolution. I took a stab and tried the 2nd one down. I continued following the instructions but had no luck. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Jodiuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> I wish Asus would make a 24" version of their ROG Swift monitor. It seems like the perfect monitor, but 27" is just too big.


I'm looking for the same thing. My BenQ 24TE is far from a high quality TN, lol!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> 12x !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 16.667/1.4 = 11.905
> 
> 
> 
> Yep.
> 
> Even that's not the final frontier, with some future adjustable-persistence strobe backlights.
> 
> The BENQ XL2720Z with the fixed firmware, has BENQ Blur Reduction capable of adjustable persistence (strobe lengths) all the way down to ~0.5ms through some undocumented adjustments that I'll publicize. The picture is dim -- you only get 25cd/m2 brightness. Here, it is much dimmer than LightBoost 10%. However, it is the first LCD I've ever seen with sub-millisecond measured persistence. That said, wait until the XL2720Z with the fixed firmwares comes out, first -- there's a strobe phase timing bug, currently, with the BENQ XL2720Z, that I have discovered and reported to BENQ already. If any of you are looking to get the XL2720Z, wait until the fixed firmware is in the monitors.
Click to expand...

Any news on whether or not their motion blur reduction tints like LB? How's the panel overall? Specifically with regard to gamma shifts vertically.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiezZ BE*
> 
> Color adjustments should be possible with the G-sync module/pcb installed. Check:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1455771/first-hand-experiences-with-g-sync/20#post_21529842
> 
> People in US/Canada can get it for 200. That still isn't cheap but I'lm probably going to get it if they don't bump up the price for the euro market.
> 
> The thing I dislike about the PCB is that I lose my HDMI port, so I can't use it anymore to connect my settop box. I didn't use my monitor a lot for that, but still, annoying...


The price is higher, at least on the scan.co.uk pre-installed upgrade kit, the price difference was like $270
Quote:


> Any news on whether or not their motion blur reduction tints like LB? How's the panel overall? Specifically with regard to gamma shifts vertically.


I'm not the person to ask, so question open to thread


----------



## senna89

Asus PG278Q is flicker free ?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> If you have the option to use DP or DVI, which is the way to go? I'm currently using dual link DVI and just noticed that my screen and GPU has DP ports.


Anyone?


----------



## TiezZ BE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Anyone?


Both should be just fine for a 1080p 144Hz monitor like yours (and no g-sync)

I'm now using a display port cable because I wanted a longer cable, no differences on my vg248qe with DP


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiezZ BE*
> 
> Both should be just fine for a 1080p 144Hz monitor like yours (and no g-sync)
> 
> I'm now using a display port cable because I wanted a longer cable, no differences on my vg248qe with DP


Ah, but I think the DP passes audio signal to the monitor (if the monitor has a speaker or headphone port) just like what HDMI does, right?

So if I'm using dual link DVI at 1080p 120Hz only, then it would be a waste of money to buy a good DP cable just for the sake of using DP?


----------



## TiezZ BE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Ah, but I think the DP passes audio signal to the monitor (if the monitor has a speaker or headphone port) just like what HDMI does, right?
> 
> So if I'm using dual link DVI at 1080p 120Hz only, then it would be a waste of money to buy a good DP cable just for the sake of using DP?


Yes, if forgot about that, my monitor indeed took the audio signal on the DP connection. The speakers are crap, but it is indeed possible to connect your headphones on the asus. Don't know if audio quality is affected in any way when connect it like that... Image qualtity is the same with both cables.


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Uraniumz*
> 
> Jderbs,
> 
> I tried this out, but I could not get it to work. I have a couple questions.
> 
> Having strobelight already setup, I removed it from the startup folder, exited out of it, and used the setup.exe to restore the monitors resolutions back to default.
> 
> I then used Cru.exe to rename ALL of the monitors Product ID's it listed to ACI24F8 ( versus your ACI27F8, I assume you have the VG247QE 27" model?). I changed the three that showed as active, as well as the others listed that were named Generic PnP, 2x Nvidia Surround's, and one other one. Where I got lost was knowing which of the 3 listed as active was my main monitor, so I knew where to add the resolution. I took a stab and tried the 2nd one down. I continued following the instructions but had no luck. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


I have the 24 inch model and I still rename them to ACI27F8. That's the only way it will work. In my CRU my center monitor was listed first. I don't know if that's just dumb luck or if this trick will work with ANY of the monitors being LB enabled.


----------



## Uraniumz

Alright Ill try again tomorrow. No matter the annoyance, its still worth the effort of enabling LB every time.
Hope this will work for me, and then Mdrejhon can confirm and post it for all those in the same situation. Perhaps a post over in the official debezelled monitor club thread would be in order. Many of those guys have 3x vg238qe's.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TiezZ BE*
> 
> Yes, if forgot about that, my monitor indeed took the audio signal on the DP connection. The speakers are crap, but it is indeed possible to connect your headphones on the asus. Don't know if audio quality is affected in any way when connect it like that... Image qualtity is the same with both cables.


Ah. I'm really curious if there would be any video quality differences. Any benchmarks?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Ah. I'm really curious if there would be any video quality differences. Any benchmarks?


DVI and Displayport are both digital, lossless standards. They both lose no data, they are literally perfect, so there's no way for the video signal to differ


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> DVI and Displayport are both digital, lossless standards. They both lose no data, they are literally perfect, so there's no way for the video signal to differ


Nice to hear that. So the difference in bandwidth only really comes into play for higher resolutions and surround setups?


----------



## mikeaj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Ah. I'm really curious if there would be any video quality differences. Any benchmarks?
> 
> 
> 
> DVI and Displayport are both digital, lossless standards. They both lose no data, they are literally perfect, so there's no way for the video signal to differ
Click to expand...

Just because something's digital doesn't mean that no data is lost (lossless in some usual sense), or else communications engineers would be out of jobs...

It's just with both with practical home use (especially to a computer nearby and not using some flaky cable at max distance spec) the bit error rate is practically zero and it is generally true that no data is lost and you get the same data.

DisplayPort has some forward error correction codes, but I think that's not on video data. Same for HDMI and maybe... actually, I don't know the low-level details of these display standards.

The different standards and different versions of each standards have different signalling modes (and rates) and supported resolutions and fps and whatnot. You're looking at feature set differences, really. Not quality in the sense of some kind of signal degradation resulting in the image being different.


----------



## Cyro999

Ok; i'm not expert, just heard both lossless


----------



## mikeaj

When all bits are not in error (which is what happens most of the times**), I guess you can call that "lossless" but people usually use that term with respect to data compression and not data transmission.

** for examples not, check old stories on HDMI sparklies or whatnot. Not an amazing but not a bad article:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20056502-1/why-all-hdmi-cables-are-the-same/

Hm, though that has me thinking... not sure what the failure modes on DisplayPort would look like. It is a packetized scheme, but when (or if) do they do checking etc.? and handling errors (which happen very rarely and in conditions as described above)

This is quite out of the scope of the original or even the most recent discussion though, so sorry for the derailment. Hope you guys get back on schedule.


----------



## jjpjimmy

I've been playing with 100hz lightboost vg248qe for a month and i'll report that double digit frametimes results in a stuttering game even if framerates are above refreshrate. I have to close everything to have frametimes low enough









I suppose it's already very well known, but are there any tips to reducing frametimes further?

Oh yeah, Vsync is off.

tf2 is horrendous.


----------



## TiezZ BE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Nice to hear that. So the difference in bandwidth only really comes into play for higher resolutions and surround setups?


Yes the main difference is the max bandwidth they offer, but everything you send over a digital connection like DVI or DP that doens't exceed the bandwidth of a particular connection/cable is not a problem and therefore should result in getting same quality in comparison of a connection that has a higher max bandwidth.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjpjimmy*
> 
> I've been playing with 100hz lightboost vg248qe for a month and i'll report that double digit frametimes results in a stuttering game even if framerates are above refreshrate. I have to close everything to have frametimes low enough
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose it's already very well known, but are there any tips to reducing frametimes further?
> 
> Oh yeah, Vsync is off.
> 
> tf2 is horrendous.


Increase FPS









As for a specific engine with some slow frames.. complain to developers with charts from frafsbenchviewer!


----------



## Z Overlord

when will we hear of 24" G Sync monitors?


----------



## Yukon Trooper

A handful of companies have already announced 24" G-Sync monitors, available in Q1/H1.


----------



## faction87

weird, so ive been playin with lightboost enabled with 10%, and now i notice I cant seem to change it to 100% ect.. and in game i cant either. whats goin on?


----------



## Yukon Trooper

Anyone here with the G-Sync module that could comment on minimum luminance? I had the QE last year but returned it due to the minimum luminance being too high, but apparently the G-Sync module introduces a non-PWM circuit, so I'm hoping the minimum luminance has been reduced. I like to run my monitors fairly dim without touching the Nvidia control panel.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukon Trooper*
> 
> A handful of companies have already announced 24" G-Sync monitors, available in Q1/H1.


do you think they will have that same panel that the Asus one will have that allegedly has colors comparable to eIPS?


----------



## crabula

Hi,

Is there any way to ensure you get a faultless EIZO Foris FG2421?

I'm in Sydney, Australia and there's only one shop in this city that has it, I'm guessing I'll need to either be able to keep returning it or test one in store.

Is the only fault the white vertical bar across the right hand 1/6th of the screen on greyish colours?

Cheers


----------



## Yukon Trooper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> do you think they will have that same panel that the Asus one will have that allegedly has colors comparable to eIPS?


The Asus ROG will be using a premium TN panel. While I can't say for sure, by the looks of it the Asus and BenQ G-Sync monitors will be using the same panels the current 144Hz Asus and BenQ monitors use now. I have experience with the Asus QE and BenQ TE. I can tell you the TE has better default color and better color control, but the Asus has superior uniformity in 120/144Hz mode. This is due to the internal circuitry characteristics and not the panels themselves, which I believe are the same. Of course, the G-Sync modules completely replace the circuitry so how the new G-Sync monitors will compare to each other is anyone's guess.

Honestly, I think after hardware calibration the current 144Hz displays all perform admirably. I would take a hardware calibrated TN over a non-hardware calibrated IPS any day.


----------



## crabula

Don't know if this has been mentioned but I just heard about this from someone: "The lightboost hack has been integrated into the gsync standard. So if you get a gsync monitor, it'll have the the low persistence lightboost as well." Source: http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1221869

One question, will the official lightboost work on the VG248QE if you use the G-Sync upgrade kit... I imagine it would have better colours than hackboost, and you can use it at the same time as G-Sync.

Also, according to this nvidia G-Sync upgrade guide for the VG248QE the only inputs you have after upgrade is Display Port. They don't mention DVI when they talk about the standard VG248QE though, so maybe it'll still be there.


----------



## Yukon Trooper

Yes, all G-Sync monitors have an official strobe mode, including the G-Sync module. Yes, the colors are improved. Furthermore, strobbed mode, at least on the upgrade module, can be accessed through a front panel button. Yes, Display Port only on the module upgrade.


----------



## crabula

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yukon Trooper*
> 
> Yes, all G-Sync monitors have an official strobe mode, including the G-Sync module. Yes, the colors are improved. Furthermore, strobbed mode, at least on the upgrade module, can be accessed through a front panel button. Yes, Display Port only on the module upgrade.


Awesome thanks.

I've only ever used DVI, are there any drawbacks to using DP instead?


----------



## Yukon Trooper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crabula*
> 
> I've only ever used DVI, are there any drawbacks to using DP instead?


The cables with latches on them can be a pain in the ass to remove from monitors with vertical ports.


----------



## faction87

Guys I need some help When playin rift, or bf4 while alt tabin to desktop my lighboost always changes!! its pissing me off ioono what to do uninstall it or what but it goes from 100% to 10% and i want it to stay @ 10....


----------



## Cyro999

Are you sure that they're not just changing your display mode? If you run them in windowed fullscreen, they can't do that. Fullscreen, they have to be set up properly or might override


----------



## faction87

oh how do i set it up then?


----------



## Cyro999

I need to have same display mode on desktop and game, so if it's a fullscreen game, it has to be set to [email protected] Many games set their own display modes or do their own thing, and there's a geforce driver option that forces them to use [email protected] which is not what you want, so make sure it's off, etc. Some game config files let you set them to 120hz display mode when in fullscreen (NOT a framerate limit, is just that often screen refreshes at say 60hz or 144hz when you blackscreen to tab into these programs)

Easiest is just to use windowed fullscreen


----------



## Hefner

Did anyone post about this already?

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7641/amd-demonstrates-freesync-free-gsync-alternative-at-ces-2014


----------



## TiezZ BE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hefner*
> 
> Did anyone post about this already?
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/7641/amd-demonstrates-freesync-free-gsync-alternative-at-ces-2014


Freesync threads have been locked as far as I know. I hope AMD is going to show more technical info on this. They need to make this work on desktop monitors so it can be tested by third party reviewers imo


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crabula*
> 
> Is there any way to ensure you get a faultless EIZO Foris FG2421?


Make sure you warm up your FG2421 for at least 30 minutes (60mins if it came in a cold box sitting outside in the winter).
Ghosting reduces by quite a LOT when warmed up.

The FG2421 is absolutely beautiful, and I prefer playing Bioshock Infinite (full 120fps) on a Titan in FG2421 Turbo240 strobe mode on it than LightBoost/ULMB, because of the much better color, brightness, and 5000:1 contrast ratio. For low frame rates (e.g. Battlefield 4 or Crysis 3) I prefer GSYNC, but for triple-digit frame rates and solo mode (where lag doesn't matter), I like [email protected] VSYNC ON on the Eizo FG2421, for the blurfree+stutterfree+tearfree+colorful+bright motion experience.

There are certainly a few flaws with it, but it all depends on your tolerance factor for some monitor defects. It is nicer to look at than, for example, a TN panel.


----------



## crabula

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Make sure you warm up your FG2421 for at least 30 minutes (60mins if it came in a cold box sitting outside in the winter).
> Ghosting reduces by quite a LOT when warmed up.
> 
> The FG2421 is absolutely beautiful, and I prefer playing Bioshock Infinite (full 120fps) on a Titan in FG2421 Turbo240 strobe mode on it than LightBoost/ULMB, because of the much better color, brightness, and 5000:1 contrast ratio. For low frame rates (e.g. Battlefield 4 or Crysis 3) I prefer GSYNC, but for triple-digit frame rates and solo mode (where lag doesn't matter), I like [email protected] VSYNC ON on the Eizo FG2421, for the blurfree+stutterfree+tearfree+colorful+bright motion experience.
> 
> There are certainly a few flaws with it, but it all depends on your tolerance factor for some monitor defects. It is nicer to look at than, for example, a TN panel.


I really like my VG248QE @ 120Hz+LB in TF2/CSGO/BFBC2, but was considering the FG2421 for better colours/uniformity/contrast in general but with a similar fast no-blur experience as LB120Hz for FPS gaming. Do you think the ghosting/lag/blur would be increased/bother someone who likes to play competitively and is used to LB120Hz? I don't notice any tearing with 120Hz+LB unless I look for it, and I don't mind playing with [email protected]% brightness.

I could get the EIZO and keep the ASUS for comp-gaming, but would much prefer if the EIZO can do it all, otherwise might just wait for something that can.

Cheers


----------



## IronMaiden1973

I thought this was interesting.. "Why you should not get the new Dell and ASUS 4K monitors. Just wait!"

http://www.overclock.net/t/1462022/why-you-should-not-get-the-new-asus-and-dell-4k-monitors-and-just-wait-25-jan-2014#post_21656858


----------



## Sir_Gawain

I have been getting an itch to upgrade my monitor as of late for some reason. I currently have a Samsung S23A750D which I absolutely love.....thinking of getting either a 27" 750D or 950D for the added real estate but with G-Sync on the horizon I am torn as I am leery I will get the same quality from another monitor. Anyone in here have experience with the per-mentioned Samsung monitors and have made a switch to a brand like Asus? Curious to see if any of upcoming Asus G-Sync monitors (or any past Asus monitor) can match the colors and smoothness of the 750D/950D monitors.


----------



## Jack Mac

Keep the 750D, it's one of the nicest 120Hz TN screens and dat glossy coating


----------



## Sir_Gawain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> Keep the 750D, it's one of the nicest 120Hz TN screens and dat glossy coating


I know....I havnt found anything else that can match it yet. I'd be pissed to cough up money on something to have it be inferior.


----------



## stryker7314

Can someone confirm that the G-Sync module on a VG248qe makes it PWM free, want to verify before ordering.


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stryker7314*
> 
> Can someone confirm that the G-Sync module on a VG248qe makes it PWM free, want to verify before ordering.


VG248 is just affected by evident PWM also without Lightboost.


----------



## stryker7314

Someone with G-Sync installed please do a test to check PWM. Here is one of Vega doing a test with a camera, seems simple enough-


----------



## stryker7314

Looks like I found were Chief Blur Buster mentioned this ( http://www.blurbusters.com/nvidia-confi ... sync-kits/ ). "The G-SYNC board appears to make VG248QE become PWM-free or high-PWM (5-digit KHz); as I no longer can detect PWM, so that part seems solved."

Useful info for anyone looking to purchase this, kind of a bonus to the whole G-Sync and better Strobe, it also makes the monitor PWM-free!


----------



## senna89

gsync kit not resolve the problems of backlight


----------



## stryker7314

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> gsync kit not resolve the problems of backlight


Got any data to back that statement up?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stryker7314*
> 
> Got any data to back that statement up?


He said that he could no longer detect PWM, not that it was neccesarily PWM free - i wouldn't rush in and expect it to be 100% perfect in normal operation, at least it's gone in strobe mode by nature


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stryker7314*
> 
> Got any data to back that statement up?


data ? OMG, are you study somethings of electrotechnical ?









Each LED backlight system have their specific like a min and max frequency, and changing the elettronic card you cant increase this max frequency of LED ( that depending only by % ) so if a monitor have flickers, you cant make it flicker-free









You should replace all backlight for to do what about you'r speaking.


----------



## stryker7314

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> data ? OMG, are you study somethings of electrotechnical ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Each LED backlight system have their specific like a min and max frequency, and changing the elettronic card you cant increase this max frequency of LED ( that depending only by % ) so if a monitor have flickers, you cant make it flicker-free
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should replace all backlight for to do what about you'r speaking.


You just make stuff up don't you?

Read it and weep -

Re: G-Sync and PWM [Good news: It's PWM-free]

Postby Chief Blur Buster » Yesterday, 16:05
Yes, the G-SYNC upgrade takes over all backlight driving and makes the VG248QE backlight PWM-free (or hi-PWM beyond my measuring equipment's limitations).

I did a 10KHz basic photodiode oscilloscope test, and it was flat DC. And I tested using the fast-camera-wave-and-take-photo (TFTCentral PWM test. I couldn't see any pulses.

http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=271&sid=7260f8cf98178a4dc9eced047dfc7f6f


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> Each LED backlight system have their specific like a min and max frequency


The GSYNC motherboard replacement appears to include a new LED voltage driver.

No LEDs do PWM by itself, the PWM is caused by the LED driver. PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) is simply a power supply whose voltage swings from 0 volts to full voltage, back and fourth, rapidly. Voltage pulses from a power supply! That's it. The LED doesn't know how to do PWM, that's done by the LED driver circuit (aka LED power supply). And guess where the LED driver is? Yup! Not on the panel, but on the monitor motherboard! Which is REPLACED when you upgrade to GSYNC.









It needs to do that to do the more powerful abilities, and because PWM has some nasty interference-effect *artifact* with variable refresh rate. For those not familiar with the *PWM artifact* problem, please see LCD Motion Artifacts. Viewing www.testufo.com/ghosting while Brightness=0% shows the PWM artifact on older VG248QE monitors. The problem is when doing variable refresh rate, this would happen to receive ugly temporal variances in the PWM artifact, due to the beat-frequency interplay between strobe rate versus refresh rate. Strobe/CRT familiar users will be familiar with the CRT [email protected] double image effect, or the LightBoost [email protected] double image effect. Or on old monitors, [email protected] triple-image effect, where the number of copies of images is a mathematical function of (framerate)/(flashrate). Look at www.testufo.com with LightBoost enabled, lower framerates have more copies of images. Naturally, I can understand why NVIDIA has intentionally engineered all GSYNC monitors to be PWM-free, to prevent the ugly variable-image-multiplying-effect of low-fixed-frequency PWM during variable-refresh-rate situations.

Here is Camera proof of ASUS VG248QE monitor becoming PWM-free with the G-SYNC upgrade, via my enhanced version of the TFTCentral moving camera method.

Photography Info: Casio EX-ZR200, 1/125sec exposure, non-strobed mode, camera sliding very fast horizontally on a Drylin W-1080 Camera Slider Rail (which I use for pursuit camera tests) at approximately 1 meter per second slide speed, from a focus distance of about 4" away from the monitor plane. The horizontal lines are the unblurred screendoor effect (gaps between pixels), due to the high precision of the camera rail (and confirmed not a rolling-shutter effect on HiPWM).
GSYNC monitor is set to Brightness=0%.

Without sliding:


Camera sliding very fast (on camera rail) at 1 meter per second.


(Original unretouched files, EXIF header unmodified. stationary photo & sliding photo)

Zero PWM observed at Brightness=0%. At 1 meter per second, a 1/125sec exposure (one refresh cycle) blurs the one-pixel thick line by more than 20x width. I've been able to detect 10KHz PWM using a 1 meter/second camera sliding speed, but I see zero PWM in this photo.


----------



## Scorpion667

Hey mdrejhon, were you able to test the new "better" Strobelight mode that comes with G-Sync?

I couldn't find any articles pertaining this on blurbusters, just confirmations from Nvidia that it exists lol.

I was just about to buy a modded VG248QE just for the new strobelight mode (I'm a Lightboost @ 10% 24/7 guy) but then shortly realized that may be kind of stupid.

Does it allow better contrast while strobing?


----------



## CallsignVega

Yes, it allows greater picture quality than 3D based Lightboost 1. The only thing is the pulses are not adjustable and are about ~2ms, so the motion clarity will be slightly less than Lightboost 1's 10% brightness 1.4ms.


----------



## Harrywang

Wait so a couple threads back someone said the new g sync monitors will come with official lightboost or something?

Does that mean I can have gsync AND lightboost at the same time? because that would be amazing..


----------



## Cyro999

Nope, it means they have regular/gsync and also ULMB (strobe backlight) display modes


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Installed the Lightboost strobing thing for my BenQ XL2420T and it's awesome







I only got the screen the other day and it was already really really good, then lightboost just made it even better. It's literally re-kindled my love for FPS shooters, I'm just enjoying playing BF4 so much more now!


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> Installed the Lightboost strobing thing for my BenQ XL2420T and it's awesome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only got the screen the other day and it was already really really good, then lightboost just made it even better. It's literally re-kindled my love for FPS shooters, I'm just enjoying playing BF4 so much more now!


Install all the strobe rates (100Hz strobed, 110Hz strobed, and 120Hz strobed) and play BF4 at 100Hz strobed, that's really smooth because it's not super difficult to hit 100FPS most of the time.


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*


Then the Gsync kit in the asus will fix the flickers and the gamma missing ?
And ...... can be improve also the dithering algorithm of this panels ?


----------



## Magical Eskimo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> Install all the strobe rates (100Hz strobed, 110Hz strobed, and 120Hz strobed) and play BF4 at 100Hz strobed, that's really smooth because it's not super difficult to hit 100FPS most of the time.


I'll do this as soon as I install my 780Ti when I get home


----------



## Jodiuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> Installed the Lightboost strobing thing for my BenQ XL2420T and it's awesome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only got the screen the other day and it was already really really good, then lightboost just made it even better. It's literally re-kindled my love for FPS shooters, I'm just enjoying playing BF4 so much more now!


Next step is to use 119.94 for GameTime.MaxVariableFps. Helped to minimize frame drops. I'm @ 120 FPS 90% of the time on all maps...1080P, Ultra, 2x MSAA, no AO.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> Installed the Lightboost strobing thing for my BenQ XL2420T and it's awesome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I only got the screen the other day and it was already really really good, then lightboost just made it even better. It's literally re-kindled my love for FPS shooters, I'm just enjoying playing BF4 so much more now!
> 
> 
> 
> Install all the strobe rates (100Hz strobed, 110Hz strobed, and 120Hz strobed) and play BF4 at 100Hz strobed, that's really smooth because it's not super difficult to hit 100FPS most of the time.
Click to expand...

?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magical Eskimo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> Install all the strobe rates (100Hz strobed, 110Hz strobed, and 120Hz strobed) and play BF4 at 100Hz strobed, that's really smooth because it's not super difficult to hit 100FPS most of the time.
> 
> 
> 
> I'll do this as soon as I install my 780Ti when I get home
Click to expand...

Party time!


----------



## hamzta09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> ?


100hz = 100fps = easier to maintain = more benefit.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hamzta09*
> 
> 100hz = 100fps = easier to maintain = more benefit.


I'd only drop strobe rate if fps was going to be high the vast majority of the time, but spent time under ~45-55 where triple-strobing the same frame starts to happen a lot on 120hz (you can push the number lower with 100hz)


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CallsignVega*
> 
> Yes, it allows greater picture quality than 3D based Lightboost 1. The only thing is the pulses are not adjustable and are about ~2ms, so the motion clarity will be slightly less than Lightboost 1's 10% brightness 1.4ms.


Thank you!

By the way are you running a chiller? I see you've done some light binning but those GPU clocks are off the charts.
Would love to see some pics of the rig whenever you got a minute


----------



## CallsignVega

I used to run a chiller, those clocks I can run on ambient. That current card I have ended up being faster than two different Kingpins.









Actually under a new build due to these ridiculously short high bandwidth DP1.2 connections for my 4K 60 Hz 24" and the new ROG Swift coming out. I can no longer use my long haul cables, so I must put my machine closer to the displays but I will be keeping the pumps and radiator noise and heat still in another room. Only way I can maintain my silent computing.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> I'd only drop strobe rate if fps was going to be high the vast majority of the time, but spent time under ~45-55 where triple-strobing the same frame starts to happen a lot on 120hz (you can push the number lower with 100hz)


What do you mean? Are you suggesting to keep strobe rate at 120fps even thouhh you get below 100fps in-game?

@all

Why do some people want to disable motion blur, say, in games like BF4?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> What do you mean? Are you suggesting to keep strobe rate at 120fps even thouhh you get below 100fps in-game?
> 
> @all
> 
> Why do some people want to disable motion blur, say, in games like BF4?


If some frames are faster than 10ms, yes, i'd keep 120hz strobe rate. It's not a problem IMO until you start triple-strobing some frames (which starts to happen at 25ms/frame on 120hz)

Badly implemented motion blur is terrible, many people don't want fake motion blur as it loses its usefulness when you're running the game at a performance level that's closer to real life than to limited ~24-30 or even 60fps


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> If some frames are faster than 10ms, yes, i'd keep 120hz strobe rate. It's not a problem IMO until you start triple-strobing some frames (which starts to happen at 25ms/frame on 120hz)
> 
> Badly implemented motion blur is terrible, many people don't want fake motion blur as it loses its usefulness when you're running the game at a performance level that's closer to real life than to limited ~24-30 or even 60fps


I'm not too much familiar with terms regarding the monitors. What is triple-strobing and how is it enabled?

Is the unusefulness of motion blur also effective when you are at 120fps?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> I'm not too much familiar with terms regarding the monitors. What is triple-strobing and how is it enabled?


Ideally with a strobe backlight, you would see 1 frame per strobe. This happens at perfect 120fps perfectly, with 8.333ms per frame/strobe

If a frame takes longer than that to be rendered, then your strobe backlight might activate a second time before the frame is updated, so that you would see the first frame twice. You don't really want this, it's a bad thing

If frames are taking a longer period of time, they can be shown for two, three, four strobe cycles, which looks weird/wrong. It's worst when you have some frames being displayed for uneven amounts of time:

Around 40fps:

One frame gets strobed twice - It is percieved for ~18.66ms
Next frame gets strobed three times - it is percieved for 1.5x as long
third frame gets strobed twice, 18.66ms again

^that creates irregularities in motion, and also has some weird effects on how the screen/game looks that are pretty hard to describe

Best to keep FPS up and i'd disable strobing if i was going to be bouncing around above/below ~33fps (for 100hz) or ~40fps (for 120hz)

Oh and motion blur is commonly used for two reasons:

A; To make somewhat realistic motion with a low frame rate, often 24fps for movies or 30fps for console games - not neccesary on 120fps/120hz

B; To simulate "real life" effects that mess up our vision. I disagree with implementation of this unless it's done in a very very specific way in a realism-simulating game, because a lot of people mess it up and just make a game engine that is unpleasant to use


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Ideally with a strobe backlight, you would see 1 frame per strobe. This happens at perfect 120fps perfectly, with 8.333ms per frame/strobe
> 
> If a frame takes longer than that to be rendered, then your strobe backlight might activate a second time before the frame is updated, so that you would see the first frame twice. You don't really want this, it's a bad thing
> 
> If frames are taking a longer period of time, they can be shown for two, three, four strobe cycles, which looks weird/wrong. It's worst when you have some frames being displayed for uneven amounts of time:
> 
> Around 40fps:
> 
> One frame gets strobed twice - It is percieved for ~18.66ms
> Next frame gets strobed three times - it is percieved for 1.5x as long
> third frame gets strobed twice, 18.66ms again
> 
> ^that creates irregularities in motion, and also has some weird effects on how the screen/game looks that are pretty hard to describe
> 
> Best to keep FPS up and i'd disable strobing if i was going to be bouncing around above/below ~33fps (for 100hz) or ~40fps (for 120hz)
> 
> Oh and motion blur is commonly used for two reasons:
> 
> A; To make somewhat realistic motion with a low frame rate, often 24fps for movies or 30fps for console games - not neccesary on 120fps/120hz
> 
> B; To simulate "real life" effects that mess up our vision. I disagree with implementation of this unless it's done in a very very specific way in a realism-simulating game, because a lot of people mess it up and just make a game engine that is unpleasant to use


Oh ok, so if I regularly observe that my FPS is constant to be hovering from 100~120 fps then it's safe to use 120Hz strobe, right?

Got it, so it's disable motion blur for you for 120Hz.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Oh ok, so if I regularly observe that my FPS is constant to be hovering from 100~120 fps then it's safe to use 120Hz strobe, right?
> 
> Got it, so it's disable motion blur for you for 120Hz.


Yea. 100 might be better in some cases, 120 others, depends on a few things and i don't understand perfectly


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Yea. 100 might be better in some cases, 120 others, depends on a few things and i don't understand perfectly


Hmm, but definitely the difference is not noticeable, right?


----------



## Cyro999

It will be, you want the 20% higher refresh rate and shorter strobe length of 120hz but you need to maintain faster frames on 120hz than 100 before you start strobing the same frame 2 or 3 times


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> It will be, you want the 20% higher refresh rate and shorter strobe length of 120hz but you need to maintain faster frames on 120hz than 100 before you start strobing the same frame 2 or 3 times


Oh ok. So what if you have fps that is fluctuating between 100-120 (which is not uncommon depending on where you are in the game) then what is the optimal strobe frequency?


----------



## Cyro999

120


----------



## SeanJ76

I have yet to play around with the 3d Vision on my BenQ 2420TE, someday when I have nothing to do.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeanJ76*
> 
> I have yet to play around with the 3d Vision on my BenQ 2420TE, someday when I have nothing to do.


Year and a half with this monitor and still never enabled 3D lol
I forgot its 3d capable until I saw your post


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Year and a half with this monitor and still never enabled 3D lol
> I forgot its 3d capable until I saw your post


Well vg248qe has "3d" written in a massive font on the front of the stand lol - do we need to buy 3d vision kit and certain type of glasses etc?


----------



## SightUp

I am having a problem.

I unplugged everything for a few hours while I was moving into a new room. When I hooked everything back up, started the computer, the Lightboost will no longer work.

I have rerun strobelight-setup.exe and did the reset display (uninstall) option but this had no effect.

What should I do?


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> It will be, you want the 20% higher refresh rate and shorter strobe length of 120hz but you need to maintain faster frames on 120hz than 100 before you start strobing the same frame 2 or 3 times


This is why I switched from COD to BF4 lol.
hard coded 91FPS cap is unacceptable compared to minimum 122fps that I get in BF4


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> This is why I switched from COD to BF4 lol.
> hard coded 91FPS cap is unacceptable compared to minimum 122fps that I get in BF4


bf4 actual performance is nowhere near what "min fps" says because of so many slow frames


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> bf4 actual performance is nowhere near what "min fps" says because of so many slow frames


Interesting. You are right as per fraps bench viewer:

Is it bad coding or because of EIST/C-States latency? My GPU clocks don't fluctuate at all because of lightning LN2 BIOS

Gonna experiment a bit to try and fix the slow frames.
Thinking
-disable HT
-disable C-States
-set mosfets to extreme as opposed to optimized
-try different gfx drivers

[edit] Nop, looks like poor coding. Even with all CPU power savings off, down clocking off, HT off and mosfets on full blast I get the same slow frames
Meh, at least it feels butter smooth!


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Interesting. You are right as per fraps bench viewer:
> 
> Is it bad coding or because of EIST/C-States latency? My GPU clocks don't fluctuate at all because of lightning LN2 BIOS
> 
> Gonna experiment a bit to try and fix the slow frames.
> Thinking
> -disable HT
> -disable C-States
> -set mosfets to extreme as opposed to optimized
> -try different gfx drivers
> 
> [edit] Nop, looks like poor coding. Even with all CPU power savings off, down clocking off, HT off and mosfets on full blast I get the same slow frames
> Meh, at least it feels butter smooth!


That's actually the smoothest+highest performing i've ever, ever seen for bf4, usually when people quote me "solid 120fps" it's stuff like this


----------



## littledonny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Oh ok. So what if you have fps that is fluctuating between 100-120 (which is not uncommon depending on where you are in the game) then what is the optimal strobe frequency?


100. It is well-documented that motion blur comes on strong even if your fps dip a little below the strobe rate. You need to stay above your strobe rate as much as possible.


----------



## SightUp

As much as possible? Are you saying there is a difference between getting a 120 fps on a 120hz monitor and 200 fps?


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jderbs*
> 
> *I JUST GOT SURROUND+LB TO WORK ON 332.21 WHQL DRIVERS*
> 
> I originally just wanted to get LB on my center monitor only because I've started playing a lot of CS:GO. When I did the following steps it was magically enabled on all of my monitors when surround was enabled.
> 
> Here's what I did (make sure your nvidia ctrl panel is set to Active All Displays, not surround)
> 
> 1) Forget the strobelight program, it's useless in this application. You have to have CRU.exe. If you can figure it out with strobelight, cool.
> 2) Use CRU.exe to manually edit ALL of your monitors' Product IDs to ACI27F8
> 3) Leave all of the default resolutions there for your monitors and add this to only your main monitor's resolutions manually
> 
> 4) Close down CRU and restart your computer
> 5) Open CRU and ensure that all of your monitors have the new product ID and the new resolution is on your main monitor
> 6) Use Windows to set all of your monitors to 60hz
> 7) Open Nvidia control panel and start the configuration for surround. If you followed this properly the ****ty nvidia drivers should be tricked into thinking everything is fine with the monitors and you haven't messed with their IDs. I think that's how nvidia is trying to shut us down.
> 8) Run through the surround setup
> 9) Set your "surround" to 120hz
> 10) Boom - Lightboost surround on all of your monitors
> 
> This was driving me crazy. If it doesn't work for some of you, I might have to add steps to add custom resolutions to the nvidia control panel as well.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> After further testing I can't get around this being undone once you reboot or shutdown your pc. You don't need to do the entire process again, but you have to disable surround and then re-enable it. A pain in the butt for now. If anyone can figure out a quick workaround that'd be awesome.


For whatever reason this isn't working again. I can't get CRU to stick on any monitor at all after a driver reinstall. Frustrating to say the least.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *littledonny*
> 
> 100. It is well-documented that motion blur comes on strong even if your fps dip a little below the strobe rate. You need to stay above your strobe rate as much as possible.


Now I got more confused, which is which?

Also, if I set strobe at 100Hz then should I also change the framerate cap of BF4 to just 100fps to avoid tearing (assuming I don't want vsync because of input lag) ?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *littledonny*
> 
> 100. It is well-documented that motion blur comes on strong even if your fps dip a little below the strobe rate. You need to stay above your strobe rate as much as possible.


Could i see this documentation? Still learning


----------



## littledonny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Could i see this documentation? Still learning


Maybe well-documented was a stretch. I believe either Callsignvega or mdrejhon stated it in one of these lightboost/VQ248QE threads. I have also experienced it - the motion blur difference between 80 and 120fps when using lightboost @ 120hz is very large for me.

I know mdrejhon has emphasized the importance of matching frame rate to refresh rate when using lightboost. Maybe he can chime in and give the detailed specifics he's become famous for









I do know that the biggest drawback of lower frequency strobing (like 100hz as opposed to 120hz) is the reduction in brightness.


----------



## Connolly

I've just upgraded to the mantle drivers, and wow what a difference in BF4. Beyond wildest dreams stuff... Now that I can max out my fps at 120+ in pretty much all conditions I've started to look into playing with a frame rate limiter. Should I use some third party software to limit the frames? If so, which? Should I have V-Sync On/Off? And should I be using triple buffering? If there's anything else to add, feel free.

I know this isn't officially the correct place to ask this, but I've read so many conflicting views about the subject I'd love someone to be able to give me some definitive information. I'm using a Eizo Foris FG2421 as my monitor, so don't need any advice about lightboost settings for motion clarity etc.

Edit: Also, what should I be setting the FPS limiter to, I've read anything between 118 - 121 being the sweet spot, baring in mind that I'm using a 120hz display


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *littledonny*
> 
> Maybe well-documented was a stretch. I believe either Callsignvega or mdrejhon stated it in one of these lightboost/VQ248QE threads. I have also experienced it - the motion blur difference between 80 and 120fps when using lightboost @ 120hz is very large for me.
> 
> I know mdrejhon has emphasized the importance of matching frame rate to refresh rate when using lightboost. Maybe he can chime in and give the detailed specifics he's become famous for
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do know that the biggest drawback of lower frequency strobing (like 100hz as opposed to 120hz) is the reduction in brightness.


Why would lower frequency strobing have reduction in brightness when the user sets the lightboost brightness himself?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Why would lower frequency strobing have reduction in brightness when the user sets the lightboost brightness himself?


If you strobe less often, the only way to maintain brightness is by strobing for longer (which adds motion blur)


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Connolly*
> 
> I've just upgraded to the mantle drivers, and wow what a difference in BF4. Beyond wildest dreams stuff... Now that I can max out my fps at 120+ in pretty much all conditions I've started to look into playing with a frame rate limiter. Should I use some third party software to limit the frames? If so, which? Should I have V-Sync On/Off? And should I be using triple buffering? If there's anything else to add, feel free.
> 
> I know this isn't officially the correct place to ask this, but I've read so many conflicting views about the subject I'd love someone to be able to give me some definitive information. I'm using a Eizo Foris FG2421 as my monitor, so don't need any advice about lightboost settings for motion clarity etc.
> 
> Edit: Also, what should I be setting the FPS limiter to, I've read anything between 118 - 121 being the sweet spot, baring in mind that I'm using a 120hz display


You could try using gametime.maxvariablefps 121 in user.cfg


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> If you strobe less often, the only way to maintain brightness is by strobing for longer (which adds motion blur)


When you say less often and longer, you mean turn strobing on/off?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> When you say less often and longer, you mean turn strobing on/off?


Strobe backlight is turning on and off every refresh, that's what strobe means

with 100hz and 1.5ms backlight pulses, brightness is lower than 120hz with 1.5ms backlight pulses - because there's 20 less of them per second


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Strobe backlight is turning on and off every refresh, that's what strobe means
> 
> with 100hz and 1.5ms backlight pulses, brightness is lower than 120hz with 1.5ms backlight pulses - because there's 20 less of them per second


Oh ok, gotcha. Is it noticeable though?


----------



## littledonny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> If you strobe less often, the only way to maintain brightness is by strobing for longer (which adds motion blur)


Yep. And with the upcoming ULMB, apparently strobe length is no longer adjustable.


----------



## SightUp

I know that if you get below 120fps on a 120hz you will lose the effect of LightBoost. If I have a solid, non dipping, 121fps, is that going to be any different than getting 200fps when it comes to LightBoost?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> I know that if you get below 120fps on a 120hz you will lose the effect of LightBoost. If I have a solid, non dipping, 121fps, is that going to be any different than getting 200fps when it comes to LightBoost?


Do you really "lose the effect" of LB when fps < Hz? Or would the positive effect of LB just lessen to some extent?


----------



## SightUp

It has been noted several times that even if your FPS goes down a little under your Hz, you do.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> It has been noted several times that even if your FPS goes down a little under your Hz, you do.


So you lose the whole effect of LB and it would be exactly similar to not using LB when fps < Hz?


----------



## SightUp

I do not know what % of LightBoost is lost but the blur becomes noticeable which means you might as well not be running it from the start.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Connolly*
> 
> I've just upgraded to the mantle drivers, and wow what a difference in BF4. Beyond wildest dreams stuff... Now that I can max out my fps at 120+ in pretty much all conditions I've started to look into playing with a frame rate limiter. Should I use some third party software to limit the frames? If so, which? Should I have V-Sync On/Off? And should I be using triple buffering? If there's anything else to add, feel free.
> 
> I know this isn't officially the correct place to ask this, but I've read so many conflicting views about the subject I'd love someone to be able to give me some definitive information. I'm using a Eizo Foris FG2421 as my monitor, so don't need any advice about lightboost settings for motion clarity etc.
> 
> Edit: Also, what should I be setting the FPS limiter to, I've read anything between 118 - 121 being the sweet spot, baring in mind that I'm using a 120hz display


Test with fraps and see which cap results in minimum FPS staying at or above your refresh rate

It will depend on your hardware

I have to set my cap to 125 to keep minimum fps above 120
Even capping at 124 I saw dips to 118 consistently

Play around with it


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> So you lose the whole effect of LB and it would be exactly similar to not using LB when fps < Hz?


It looks a bit weird, particularly at lower FPS but most of the effect should be intact if the majority of your frametimes are fast enough


----------



## MLJS54

My one issue with Lightboost is in certain games if I game in fullscreen the game becomes extremely "dark" at 10% brightness. My only option is to bump in the in-game gamma all the way up but that causes the game to become too washed out. Going from say 10% to 50% LB brightness does not do much either. Windowed fullscreen looks great.

Anything I can tweak in Nvidia CP to adjust for this?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> My one issue with Lightboost is in certain games if I game in fullscreen the game becomes extremely "dark" at 10% brightness. My only option is to bump in the in-game gamma all the way up but that causes the game to become too washed out. Going from say 10% to 50% LB brightness does not do much either. Windowed fullscreen looks great.
> 
> Anything I can tweak in Nvidia CP to adjust for this?


Fullscreen looks exactly the same for me as windowed fullscreen.. unless the display mode is changed by the game when switching to fullscreen


----------



## MLJS54

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Fullscreen looks exactly the same for me as windowed fullscreen.. unless the display mode is changed by the game when switching to fullscreen


This is the case for me when Lightboost is not on i.e. 144hz mode on my BenQ windowed fullscreen / actual fullscreen look exactly alike. Soon as I put on 120hz LB I can only play games in windowed. Happens in both CS:GO, SC2 and Darkfall. This happened with my other GPU as well (R9 280x).

Playing on a BenQ 2420TE


----------



## crabula

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SightUp*
> 
> I know that if you get below 120fps on a 120hz you will lose the effect of LightBoost. If I have a solid, non dipping, 121fps, is that going to be any different than getting 200fps when it comes to LightBoost?


I think I remember reading that you want your fps to be a bit above and not a multiple of the refresh rate, to keep motion clarity and not have much tearing, respectively.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Do you really "lose the effect" of LB when fps < Hz? Or would the positive effect of LB just lessen to some extent?


In my experience you get a juddery/stuttery-effect when fps is below Hz. I'd rather play with no LB than have to put up with that, it's pretty bad. Not sure exactly what my FPS was.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> This is the case for me when Lightboost is not on i.e. 144hz mode on my BenQ windowed fullscreen / actual fullscreen look exactly alike. Soon as I put on 120hz LB I can only play games in windowed. Happens in both CS:GO, SC2 and Darkfall. This happened with my other GPU as well (R9 280x).
> 
> Playing on a BenQ 2420TE


Yes, sc2 changed my display mode until i manually set it to 120hz in the game - Osu too. With CSGO and Planetside 2, i have to mess around a bit to get display mode i want - A few games don't have the option and they will change display mode when you fullscreen so you are forced to windowed fullscreen


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> It looks a bit weird, particularly at lower FPS but most of the effect should be intact if the majority of your frametimes are fast enough


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crabula*
> 
> I think I remember reading that you want your fps to be a bit above and not a multiple of the refresh rate, to keep motion clarity and not have much tearing, respectively.
> In my experience you get a juddery/stuttery-effect when fps is below Hz. I'd rather play with no LB than have to put up with that, it's pretty bad. Not sure exactly what my FPS was.


What if my fps in BF4 stays at 121 (using 121 as a cap in user.cfg) but when there are lots of enemies and other graphical features in the environment it dips to around 110, what strobe rate is best? Should I just use 110 Hz or go with 100 Hz to be sure?


----------



## Cyro999

100hz because if your FPS meter says 110 in bf4 you're almost certainly getting thousands of frames taking longer than 10ms


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> 100hz because if your FPS meter says 110 in bf4 you're almost certainly getting thousands of frames taking longer than 10ms


Gotcha. Changing the strobe rate to 100Hz would automatically change the frequency used by the BF4 application, right?


----------



## Cyro999

Probably. Maybe.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> What if my fps in BF4 stays at 121 (using 121 as a cap in user.cfg) but when there are lots of enemies and other graphical features in the environment it dips to around 110, what strobe rate is best? Should I just use 110 Hz or go with 100 Hz to be sure?


It really depends. Stick to the dominant framerate your game runs at. If you run at 120fps more than 90% of the time, stay with 120Hz LightBoost instead of 100Hz LightBoost. Especially if you play VSYNC OFF.

However, if you prefer to play VSYNC ON, and your game frequently dips below 120fps, then you definitely want to consider [email protected], since it will give you that motion clarity more often.

VSYNC ON gives better LightBoost motion clarity, but VSYNC OFF is better for competitive gameplay. Try testing out solo games (e.g. Bioshock Infinite) with VSYNC ON, since it gives some further improvement to LightBoost motion, especially if you are already running a 1000Hz mouse.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Do you really "lose the effect" of LB when fps < Hz? Or would the positive effect of LB just lessen to some extent?


[email protected] -- strong LightBoost effect
[email protected] -- noticeable LightBoost efffect
[email protected] -- somewhat noticeable LightBoost effect
[email protected] -- semi-blurry double image effect (like CRT [email protected])
[email protected] -- semi-blurry triple image effect
[email protected] -- semi-blurry quad image effect

Example: View www.testufo.com with LightBoost enabled.

So you really want to get close to *framerate = stroberate = refreshrate* for the motion clarity nirvana of strobe backlight technology. Currently, the minimum strobe rates of the four major strobe backlight technologies are as follows:

LightBoost: 100Hz minimum strobe rate
ULMB: 85Hz minimum strobe rate
EIZO Turbo240: 105Hz minimum strobe rate
BENQ Blur Reduction: 75Hz minimum strobe rate

_Note: Make sure you wait for a March-2014 manufacture date of a BENQ Z-series monitor, if you decide to get a BENQ Blur Reduction monitor_


----------



## Ryld Baenre

So I was in on this thread a long time ago and went for LB with the EDID override. Is there a simpler method that has come up since then? Whenever I install a new driver I need to go through the whole setup of 3dvision again :/ gets annoying without having the glasses and it can be so long between driver updates that I forget the correct answers (assuming they don't change them).


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> It really depends. Stick to the dominant framerate your game runs at. If you run at 120fps more than 90% of the time, stay with 120Hz LightBoost instead of 100Hz LightBoost. Especially if you play VSYNC OFF.
> 
> However, if you prefer to play VSYNC ON, and your game frequently dips below 120fps, then you definitely want to consider [email protected], since it will give you that motion clarity more often.
> 
> VSYNC ON gives better LightBoost motion clarity, but VSYNC OFF is better for competitive gameplay. Try testing out solo games (e.g. Bioshock Infinite) with VSYNC ON, since it gives some further improvement to LightBoost motion, especially if you are already running a 1000Hz mouse.
> [email protected] -- strong LightBoost effect
> [email protected] -- noticeable LightBoost efffect
> [email protected] -- somewhat noticeable LightBoost effect
> [email protected] -- semi-blurry double image effect (like CRT [email protected])
> [email protected] -- semi-blurry triple image effect
> [email protected] -- semi-blurry quad image effect
> 
> Example: View www.testufo.com with LightBoost enabled.
> 
> So you really want to get close to *framerate = stroberate = refreshrate* for the motion clarity nirvana of strobe backlight technology. Currently, the minimum strobe rates of the four major strobe backlight technologies are as follows:
> 
> LightBoost: 100Hz minimum strobe rate
> ULMB: 85Hz minimum strobe rate
> EIZO Turbo240: 105Hz minimum strobe rate
> BENQ Blur Reduction: 75Hz minimum strobe rate
> 
> _Note: Make sure you wait for a March-2014 manufacture date of a BENQ Z-series monitor, if you decide to get a BENQ Blur Reduction monitor_


Oh ok, thanks for the detailed explanation. What is the reason why vsync would produce better LB motion clarity? Would I have the same motion clarity if I just cap fps?


----------



## Jodiuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> _Note: Make sure you wait for a March-2014 manufacture date of a BENQ Z-series monitor, if you decide to get a BENQ Blur Reduction monitor_


They're selling them now on Rakuten.com. Is there something wrong w/ it?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ryld Baenre*
> 
> So I was in on this thread a long time ago and went for LB with the EDID override. Is there a simpler method that has come up since then? Whenever I install a new driver I need to go through the whole setup of 3dvision again :/ gets annoying without having the glasses and it can be so long between driver updates that I forget the correct answers (assuming they don't change them).


We're using ToastyX Strobelight - took me about 3 minutes to set up blindly, goes on/off with two clicks or a hotkey


----------



## Jetlitheone

Want a good monitor. Sick of these Korean panels with issues. Any suggestions that don't have horrible colors?


----------



## senna89

DIY KIT improve the visibility of banding effects ?


----------



## Scorpion667

SPEAKING of 120fps @ 120hz

How the heck am I getting 122FPS minimum in BF4 on low/high (mixed settings) but 100fps minimum in Hawken with ALL LOW settings at 720p? GPU usage was AVERAGING at 35%...

I got fed up with BF4 crashes/bugs so I gave the game away. I figured Hawken is pretty fun (played it before) and wow was I unimpressed with the graphics performance. The gameplay is brilliant but still.

I'm so used to playing at 120fps @ 120hz that I will straight up refuse to play at anything lower than that.

So basically my only other option is quake live or CS:GO. God damn.


----------



## socketus

I'd go see what CallSignVega is playing. Or Mr Drejon ...

yah, bf4 sucks with the non-fixes that they keep releasing fixes for !SNAP!
and like you say, there isn't much to play that takes advantage of the Lightboost. And looks good.


----------



## Cyro999

Natural Selection 2! With fast running/flying and some of the movement mechanics, it's probably one of the signature games for showing off strobe backlight






Sorry for quality, source was 50mbit and with it taking the best internet available in this half of the country about a minute to upload 3MB, couldn't do a nice vid quickly


----------



## crabula

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jetlitheone*
> 
> Want a good monitor. Sick of these Korean panels with issues. Any suggestions that don't have horrible colors?


EIZO FG2421? VA panel = far superior colours & uniformity compared to TN, not quite as accurate as IPS but still very nice, also much better contrast / black levels than both IPS/TN.

Has anti-blur mode @ 120Hz dubbed "240Hz".

Only thing is AFAIK it's a lottery to get one without defects, so either need to test one in store or make sure they'll let you keep returning if you get faulty ones.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Gives me flashbacks to playing Quake on CRT







~!


----------



## Cyro999

Do people really use 100hz strobe? I'm having some trouble adjusting downwards compared to 144hz/120hz (which seem close enough to not reaaaaally be a massive problem)


----------



## littledonny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Do people really use 100hz strobe? I'm having some trouble adjusting downwards compared to 144hz/120hz (which seem close enough to not reaaaaally be a massive problem)


What's it like? I haven't tried it, but I am planning to use sub 120hz strobing on the new 1440p ROG monitor.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *littledonny*
> 
> What's it like? I haven't tried it, but I am planning to use sub 120hz strobing on the new 1440p ROG monitor.


It's.. like being halfway between 60 and 144hz


----------



## senna89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senna89*
> 
> DIY KIT improve the visibility of banding effects ?


saying about serious things ......


----------



## Robilar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jetlitheone*
> 
> Want a good monitor. Sick of these Korean panels with issues. Any suggestions that don't have horrible colors?


Can you wait for g-sync monitors to arrive? They are by all accounts only a couple of months away.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Oh ok, thanks for the detailed explanation. What is the reason why vsync would produce better LB motion clarity? Would I have the same motion clarity if I just cap fps?


Fully maxed-out VSYNC ON is always visually the best possible motion, assuming your GPU is powerful enough to stay maxed-out. Visually-wise (not lagwise) It always blows the socks off VSYNC OFF if your framerate is maxed out. (Except for input lag, of course)

The only problem with VSYNC ON are two things:
(1) Input lag.
(2) Annoying framerate slowdowns (sudden halving of framerate#)

*Back in the old days, Nintendo (NES, Super Nintendo) and Sega games were always VSYNC ON and we never complained about input lag. VSYNC ON only became evil in the framebuffered GPU era*, where especially in 3D FPS games, VSYNC added unacceptable input lag for competitive gameplay. So we have to tolerate tearing and stutters, for the best input latency.

However, a lot of motion fluidity nuts like me (and others) prefer VSYNC ON for solo gameplay where input lag doesn't matter, because VSYNC ON LightBoost is the *only way to simultaneously get tearfree, stutterfree AND blurfree motion*. Obviously, you need a fast enough GPU to guarantee your VSYNC is always maxed out. The people who don't understand the pros/cons of VSYNC ON versus VSYNC OFF, are missing out on a wonderful toolchest of different useful tools for tradeoffs between motion quality versus input lag.

That's why I now have a GeForce Titan, and so that I can do VSYNC ON [email protected] in games like Bioshock Infinite, enjoying stutterfree/tearfree/blurfree motion on strobe-backlight displays such as NVIDIA LightBoost, Eizo Turbo240, NVIDIA ULMB, etc. (I have 6 monitors now).

Now, I agree, for competitive gameplay, you're unavoidably needing to use VSYNC OFF to gain the competitive advantage. Frame rate capping helps a lot to smooth-out the microstutters/jitters. Strobe backlights eliminate so much motion blur, that stutters/tearing can become easier to see. VSYNC ON totally fixes that, assuming your GPU is powerful enough, but there's that input lag tradeoff (which doesn't matter to me when I play solo, so obviously, VSYNC ON is my favourite when I'm not competing).


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Do people really use 100hz strobe? I'm having some trouble adjusting downwards compared to 144hz/120hz (which seem close enough to not reaaaaally be a massive problem)


For VSYNC OFF motion, it's usually best to stay at maximum refresh rate.

However, for those times when playing VSYNC ON (e.g. solo game play), it is often a lot easier to run at a lower strobe rate (85Hz or 100Hz), since perfect motion clarity occurs during VSYNC ON framerate = refreshrate = stroberate. Especially when the GPU, computer, mouse aren't microstutter weak factors (so keep your GPU powerful, mouse top quality, CPU not limiting factor). Getting motion fluidity nirvana in recent games is extremely hard to do, and often impossible with some games (e.g. Battlefield 4) and it's only easy to elimiante two out of three (stutters, tearing, motion blur). GSYNC is able to fix the first two, while LightBoost is able to fix the latter (motion blur). However, the third option (simultaneously stutterfree, tearfree, blurfree) is possible, but only with VSYNC ON fully capped-out, and that is very expensive to do (e.g. Geforce Titan/780/SLI or top-end R9 290X/CrossFire). You get the lag, alas, though.

Some of us motion fluidity nuts, who want to be able to play game tearfree/stutterfree/blurfree, will spend the extra dollar to have fast GPU, fast CPU, high quality 1000Hz mouse, strobe-backlight monitor, run slightly older games (e.g. 2 years old and older), with VSYNC ON, get the motion fluidity nirvana of simultaneously tearfree/blurfree/stutterfree operation, at least during solo gameplay (where one can tolerate a smidgen more input lag)

Someday, we might get 240fps GSYNC with strobing simultaneously, and be able to do tearfree/stutterfree/blurfree AND virtually lagless, but that's sometime into the future.

But for now, VSYNC ON framerate=stroberate, will have to do for those of us looking for the "Arcade CRT" or "Nintendo butter smooth pans" effect with zero motion blur.

In these situations, having a lower minimum stroberate is a godsend for those games that just can't keep up. Playing a game at [email protected] ULMB still has less motion blur than 144Hz-nonstrobed, and is stutterfree/tearfree as long as the game stays at 85fps -- a lot easier than a game staying at 144fps. Obviously, you got the lag tradeoff during VSYNC ON, but nothing can beat the motion perfection of capped-out VSYNC ON (visually), assuming there are no slowdowns, assuming you're very picky about motion quality.

For those that don't care as much about stutters/tearing, all of this does not matter -- but for some of us, visual artifacts are really annoying. Getting the
"Daytona USA" fluidity and "Virtua Fighter" zero-motion-blur stutterfree fluidity is more important to some of us.

It's funny how Super Nintendo and NES games used to always be VSYNC ON, but we never complained about input lag -- then input lag became a problem when 3D Accelerators got introduced in the late 90s/early 00s traced to the framebuffered architectures interacting with VSYNC ON. And most of the Internet hates VSYNC OFF, without always objectively understanding the specific pros/cons of VSYNC ON versus VSYNC OFF.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Fully maxed-out VSYNC ON is always visually the best possible motion, assuming your GPU is powerful enough to stay maxed-out. Visually-wise (not lagwise) It always blows the socks off VSYNC OFF if your framerate is maxed out. (Except for input lag, of course)
> 
> The only problem with VSYNC ON are two things:
> (1) Input lag.
> (2) Annoying framerate slowdowns (sudden halving of framerate#)
> 
> *Back in the old days, Nintendo (NES, Super Nintendo) and Sega games were always VSYNC ON and we never complained about input lag. VSYNC ON only became evil in the framebuffered GPU era*, where especially in 3D FPS games, VSYNC added unacceptable input lag for competitive gameplay. So we have to tolerate tearing and stutters, for the best input latency.
> 
> However, a lot of motion fluidity nuts like me (and others) prefer VSYNC ON for solo gameplay where input lag doesn't matter, because VSYNC ON LightBoost is the *only way to simultaneously get tearfree, stutterfree AND blurfree motion*. Obviously, you need a fast enough GPU to guarantee your VSYNC is always maxed out. The people who don't understand the pros/cons of VSYNC ON versus VSYNC OFF, are missing out on a wonderful toolchest of different useful tools for tradeoffs between motion quality versus input lag.
> 
> That's why I now have a GeForce Titan, and so that I can do VSYNC ON [email protected] in games like Bioshock Infinite, enjoying stutterfree/tearfree/blurfree motion on strobe-backlight displays such as NVIDIA LightBoost, Eizo Turbo240, NVIDIA ULMB, etc. (I have 6 monitors now).
> 
> Now, I agree, for competitive gameplay, you're unavoidably needing to use VSYNC OFF to gain the competitive advantage. Frame rate capping helps a lot to smooth-out the microstutters/jitters. Strobe backlights eliminate so much motion blur, that stutters/tearing can become easier to see. VSYNC ON totally fixes that, assuming your GPU is powerful enough, but there's that input lag tradeoff (which doesn't matter to me when I play solo, so obviously, VSYNC ON is my favourite when I'm not competing).


I completely understand what you're trying to say with VSYNC ON. My concern though is, for example BF4, if I use VSYNC OFF and just apply a framerate cap of 120fps and my system can constantly go beyond 120fps all the time then that basically has the same effect as VSYNC ON but without the extra input lag, correct?


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> I completely understand what you're trying to say with VSYNC ON. My concern though is, for example BF4, if I use VSYNC OFF and just apply a framerate cap of 120fps and my system can constantly go beyond 120fps all the time then that basically has the same effect as VSYNC ON but without the extra input lag, correct?


Not always, because you have the following effects:

1. Microstutters caused by drift between frame rate and refresh rate.
Frame rate caps are never perfect. And the refresh rate may not be perfect either.
The GPU/monitor may be running at 120.072135Hz and the frame rate cap might be running imprecisely at 120Hz +/- 0.1Hz.
VSYNC stands for Vertical Synchronization. Without synchronization to refresh rate, you've got microstutters in one form or another.

2. Stationary tearline effects.
When you set a framerate cap exactly equal to refresh rate, you can have a stationary, vibrating or slowly moving tearline. Some games may use some software-based synchronization (e.g. essentially application-based synchronization to blanking intervals). At framerates slightly lower than refresh rate ([email protected]), you have a tearline that moves upwards slowly. At framerates slightly higher than refresh rate ([email protected]), you have a tearline that moves downwards slowly.

Ironically, some games ends up having less input lag with VSYNC ON + fps_max 119, than VSYNC OFF + uncapped framerate, but they are the exception to the rule. There are so many variables that affects the entire input lag chain...

Also, some games do some software-based synchronization during VSYNC OFF, to time the page flips closer to the refresh rate. This is actually application-based "adaptive VSYNC". This would be what is happening if you see a slowly drifting tearline stop drifting when it drifts offscreen. Normally, a slowly-drifting tearline will reappear at the opposite edge of the screen.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Not always, because you have the following effects:
> 
> 1. Microstutters caused by drift between frame rate and refresh rate.
> Frame rate caps are never perfect. And the refresh rate may not be perfect either.
> The GPU/monitor may be running at 120.072135Hz and the frame rate cap might be running imprecisely at 120Hz +/- 0.1Hz.
> VSYNC stands for Vertical Synchronization. Without synchronization to refresh rate, you've got microstutters in one form or another.
> 
> 2. Stationary tearline effects.
> When you set a framerate cap exactly equal to refresh rate, you can have a stationary, vibrating or slowly moving tearline. Some games may use some software-based synchronization (e.g. essentially application-based synchronization to blanking intervals). At framerates slightly lower than refresh rate ([email protected]), you have a tearline that moves upwards slowly. At framerates slightly higher than refresh rate ([email protected]), you have a tearline that moves downwards slowly.
> 
> Ironically, some games ends up having less input lag with VSYNC ON + fps_max 119, than VSYNC OFF + uncapped framerate, but they are the exception to the rule. There are so many variables that affects the entire input lag chain...
> 
> Also, some games do some software-based synchronization during VSYNC OFF, to time the page flips closer to the refresh rate. This is actually application-based "adaptive VSYNC". This would be what is happening if you see a slowly drifting tearline stop drifting when it drifts offscreen. Normally, a slowly-drifting tearline will reappear at the opposite edge of the screen.


Ah, makes sense.

How about if I use NVIDIA-based Adaptive VSYNC, I'll get the best of both worlds, right? VSYNC OFF when fps < Hz and VSYNC ON when fps >= Hz.


----------



## littledonny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Not always, because you have the following effects:
> 
> 1. Microstutters caused by drift between frame rate and refresh rate.
> Frame rate caps are never perfect. And the refresh rate may not be perfect either.
> The GPU/monitor may be running at 120.072135Hz and the frame rate cap might be running imprecisely at 120Hz +/- 0.1Hz.
> VSYNC stands for Vertical Synchronization. Without synchronization to refresh rate, you've got microstutters in one form or another.
> 
> 2. Stationary tearline effects.
> When you set a framerate cap exactly equal to refresh rate, you can have a stationary, vibrating or slowly moving tearline. Some games may use some software-based synchronization (e.g. essentially application-based synchronization to blanking intervals). At framerates slightly lower than refresh rate ([email protected]), you have a tearline that moves upwards slowly. At framerates slightly higher than refresh rate ([email protected]), you have a tearline that moves downwards slowly.
> 
> Ironically, some games ends up having less input lag with VSYNC ON + fps_max 119, than VSYNC OFF + uncapped framerate, but they are the exception to the rule. There are so many variables that affects the entire input lag chain...
> 
> Also, some games do some software-based synchronization during VSYNC OFF, to time the page flips closer to the refresh rate. This is actually application-based "adaptive VSYNC". This would be what is happening if you see a slowly drifting tearline stop drifting when it drifts offscreen. Normally, a slowly-drifting tearline will reappear at the opposite edge of the screen.


Is it correct to assume Gsync alleviates all of these issues? How will input lag be affected by Gsync?


----------



## mistermagic

wow! amazing info!


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *littledonny*
> 
> Is it correct to assume Gsync alleviates all of these issues? How will input lag be affected by Gsync?


Yes, GSYNC solves those issues, except for motion blur.
Fortunately GSYNC also has a LightBoost sequel (even though you can't use it simultaneously with GSYNC mode).
GSYNC did not have any measurable input lag, according to tests I did.

G-SYNC: Eliminates stutters, tearing and reduces lag, but not motion blur.
LightBoost/ULMB: Eliminates motion blur, but not stutters or tearing (uinless you use fully-capped-out VSYNC ON).

So, thusly:

G-SYNC: Enhances motion quality of lower & stuttery frame rates.
LightBoost/ULMB: Enhances motion quality of higher & consistent frame rates.

There's another Overclock.net thread that CallSignVega posted that references the GSYNC Input Lag Tests. Go check it out if you haven't already.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> When you set a framerate cap *almost* exactly equal to refresh rate


Noticed a minor boo-boo I made. It is often never perfectly exact (as I explained before) so I fixed the sentence with "almost":


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Noticed a minor boo-boo I made. It is often never perfectly exact (as I explained before) so I fixed the sentence with "almost":


Ok.

How about if I use NVIDIA-based Adaptive VSYNC, I'll get the best of both worlds, right? VSYNC OFF when fps < Hz and VSYNC ON when fps >= Hz.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> How about if I use NVIDIA-based Adaptive VSYNC, I'll get the best of both worlds, right? VSYNC OFF when fps < Hz and VSYNC ON when fps >= Hz.


It's a compromise, but for NVIDIA users, it is one of the favourite compromises to get the VSYNC ON motion clarity.
It's got less input lag than VSYNC ON but more input lag than VSYNC OFF.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> It's a compromise, but for NVIDIA users, it is one of the favourite compromises to get the VSYNC ON motion clarity.
> It's got less input lag than VSYNC ON but more input lag than VSYNC OFF.


Is the decrease in input lag significant though?

Triple Buffering has way more input lag than double buffering VSYNC, right?


----------



## Threx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Yes, GSYNC solves those issues, except for motion blur.
> Fortunately GSYNC also has a LightBoost sequel (even though you can't use it simultaneously with GSYNC mode).


Someone posted this on the ROG Swift's page a week ago:
Quote:


> I've come to understand through sources at pcmonitor.info that have comfirmed this with Asus directly that this display is in fact (and unusually) an 8-bit TN panel and not 6-bit+FRC (dithering) as is typical of a TN panel.
> 
> Here's what they confirmed in total:
> 
> -8-bit color depth
> 
> -2560×1440 resolution
> 
> -up to 144hz refresh rate at native resolution
> 
> -*ULMB mode with G-sync enabled*, it is unclear whether the 8-bit color depth is effected by ULMB or not, we will have to wait and see.


Source

So if this is true, that covers all 4 aspects, right? Input lag, stutters, tearing, AND blur.


----------



## PCM2

^^
Or more correctly, source.









Somebody seems to have misinterpreted what was written. The ULMB feature is standard to all G-SYNC monitors including this one, but it *can not* be activated at the same time as G-SYNC. I will make sure this is clarified in my article.


----------



## Threx

Meh, so much for getting one's hopes up. I knew it was too good to be true.


----------



## PCM2

I know.







Whilst it would be wonderful to have a combination of variable refresh rate and strobe backlight mode (one day hopefully) this monitor is still a very interesting and unique proposition for gamers. I look forward to testing it out.


----------



## Threx

Same, looking to grab one of these and pair them with a couple GTX 870s. At first I was suspecting Maxwell to be released before June, just in time for Computex, like they did for Keplers in the past 2 years. Guess I'll have to wait til 2H.


----------



## SIDWULF

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> SPEAKING of 120fps @ 120hz
> 
> How the heck am I getting 122FPS minimum in BF4 on low/high (mixed settings) but 100fps minimum in Hawken with ALL LOW settings at 720p? GPU usage was AVERAGING at 35%...
> 
> I got fed up with BF4 crashes/bugs so I gave the game away. I figured Hawken is pretty fun (played it before) and wow was I unimpressed with the graphics performance. The gameplay is brilliant but still.
> 
> I'm so used to playing at 120fps @ 120hz that I will straight up refuse to play at anything lower than that.
> 
> So basically my only other option is quake live or CS:GO. God damn.


I would never give away a game like BF4 over bugs...I am sure they are aware of the bugs and it will be fixed. You will just have to buy it again when the bugs are fixed which is a waste of money?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SIDWULF*
> 
> I would never give away a game like BF4 over bugs...I am sure they are aware of the bugs and it will be fixed. You will just have to buy it again when the bugs are fixed which is a waste of money?


You're one of the few that won't give away the game because of bugs, no pun intended. Lots and lots of people are very disappointed because of these but I get where you're coming from, the game is good.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SIDWULF*
> 
> I would never give away a game like BF4 over bugs...I am sure they are aware of the bugs and it will be fixed. You will just have to buy it again when the bugs are fixed which is a waste of money?


Originally gave my Origin to a work buddy, then I realized I need it to play Titanfall. Needless to say I took it back

Im sorry if this was asked before, but searching came up blank. But can we use regular Lightboost or Gsync monitors? Not the new lightboost version they have, I need me some 10% LB motion clarity godmode


----------



## TiezZ BE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> You're one of the few that won't give away the game because of bugs, no pun intended. Lots and lots of people are very disappointed because of these but I get where you're coming from, the game is good.


After playing BF3 I wasn't surprised that BF4 was unfinished and full of bugs. Especially after playing the beta. EA seem to have forgotten what releasing a finished AAA game is...
Though I still enjoy it quite a lot.


----------



## Rickles

Well this was a surprise to me.

I have a 120hz Benq with a pair of ASUS 60hz on the side, so I haven't been in eyefinity lately. So just for fun I decided to see what would happen if I made an eyefinity group, even though I don't really like it.

UFO test actually works with lightboost on my main monitor!

This was really surprising to me, I mean I figure the peripheral monitors don't really need to be at 120hz, as I never focus on them and I still have the motion clarity on my main monitor. This saves me over $300 ($150+ each monitor).

Now I just wish they were all 24 inch.

This seems like a very practical economic approach to lightboost and eyefinity.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rickles*
> 
> I have a 120hz Benq with a pair of ASUS 60hz on the side, so I haven't been in eyefinity lately. So just for fun I decided to see what would happen if I made an eyefinity group, even though I don't really like it.


I wonder if mixed refresh rates works better with AMD Eyefinity than with NVIDIA Surround, because there's often been very big problems with games slowing down to the lowest-refreshrate monitor, when you try to use mixed-refresh-rate surround. Also, matching calibration of LightBoost versus non-LightBoost can be extremely tricky too.

But if AMD does a very good job of mixed-refresh-rate Eyefinity, this is an interesting option, especially with monitors that have less color shifting during strobed mode.


----------



## Rickles

Yea, i'll try out some of my games and try to snap a picture with the DSLR, now that I have a tripod.

Might not happen tonight.

Launched Chivalry Deadliest Warrior (as they just added eyefinity support) and it seemed like lightboost was still working, and the color actually looked pretty close over all three.

Also toastyX brightness settings only affect the lightboost monitor.

Anyone have suggestions of sites similar to the UFO test? I'll snap a picture of that as well.


----------



## Cyro999

I'm having some problems since i updated to driver 334.67. The last one had some stability issues for me (caused 3 driver crash loops in 2 days, one of which corrupted my LoL client and forced me to redownload four hours worth of data while i was supposed to be in the middle of a game with someone) but now i've updated, 120hz is acting weird..

I opened VLC media player, threw on 120fps video (60fps*2) and it stuttered a bit, then dropped down to ~80fps displayed. I restarted video, put it on 1.5x speed (should be 90fps) and it stuttered, then slowed while fluctuating until it held at 80fps again

I opened testufo, it had problems syncing to 120. When it got there, even when it says valid, there are stutters, weird behavior and clear double-imaging happening. Anyone else seen anything like this? I'm going to roll back 2 drivers, but it's unfortunate to have to do that

edit: Doesn't seem to be my driver, and it's still doing it.. halp, i want my strobe mode back


----------



## SightUp

Thought I should share my experience. I updated from the last beta drivers to the newest official drivers through the Nvidia Experience panel. *DO NOT DO THIS!!! Download them directly from Nvidia's website and install them off of your desktop!!!* It cause a major graphical issue after they were done installing. Picture in your head you punched your monitor. That is what my screen looked like after the drivers were installed. I waited for 10 min to make sure everything was installed because I couldn't see my screen and did a restart. Everything is fine from what I can tell, I hope. Lesson from this is bolded.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> I'm having some problems since i updated to driver 334.67. The last one had some stability issues for me (caused 3 driver crash loops in 2 days, one of which corrupted my LoL client and forced me to redownload four hours worth of data while i was supposed to be in the middle of a game with someone) but now i've updated, 120hz is acting weird..
> 
> I opened VLC media player, threw on 120fps video (60fps*2) and it stuttered a bit, then dropped down to ~80fps displayed. I restarted video, put it on 1.5x speed (should be 90fps) and it stuttered, then slowed while fluctuating until it held at 80fps again
> 
> I opened testufo, it had problems syncing to 120. When it got there, even when it says valid, there are stutters, weird behavior and clear double-imaging happening. Anyone else seen anything like this? I'm going to roll back 2 drivers, but it's unfortunate to have to do that
> 
> edit: Doesn't seem to be my driver, and it's still doing it.. halp, i want my strobe mode back


-- Try a full driver reinstall (clean all drivers, make sure everything is removed), before reinstalling drivers via a fresh download from NVIDIA
-- Did you re-run strobelight-setup.exe to reinstall the LightBoost mode?
-- Make sure you keep running in the fancy/Aero mode, not the Classic mode. Web browsers only reliably run 120fps in the fancy Windows mode
-- If using multimonitor, make sure all browser windows are on the primary monitor
-- If you are using Windows 8.1, install the 1000Hz mouse fix


----------



## Rickles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> -- Try a full driver reinstall (clean all drivers, make sure everything is removed), before reinstalling drivers via a fresh download from NVIDIA
> -- Did you re-run strobelight-setup.exe to reinstall the LightBoost mode?
> -- Make sure you keep running in the fancy/Aero mode, not the Classic mode. Web browsers only reliably run 120fps in the fancy Windows mode
> *-- If using multimonitor, make sure all browser windows are on the primary monitor*
> -- If you are using Windows 8.1, install the 1000Hz mouse fix


That is the weird thing about my eyefinity setup is I can span it over three and it clearly runs at 120 hz, the outer monitors do have a duplicate image though.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> -- If you are using Windows 8.1, install the 1000Hz mouse fix


Oh my god. I've never done this since I installed win 8.1 4 months ago. Was I playing at 125hz mouse polling this whole time???


----------



## SightUp

I personally do not do that. I like to play with 125hz because I feel I have more control and at the end of the day, am a low sensitivity gamer.

Also, I am having a problem with LightBoost here. I just reinstalled Windows 8.1, did the LightBoost fix, and installed Insurgency. However, LightBoost is not activated in the game. Any ideas why and how to fix it?


----------



## SightUp

Found the problem was I had the setting Preferred refresh rate set to Highest available. That caused it to be all screwy.


----------



## SightUp

Another issue, when I launch my game, it causes my other screen to flicker. Is that normal or should it stay the way it is at all times?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> -- Try a full driver reinstall (clean all drivers, make sure everything is removed), before reinstalling drivers via a fresh download from NVIDIA
> -- Did you re-run strobelight-setup.exe to reinstall the LightBoost mode?
> -- Make sure you keep running in the fancy/Aero mode, not the Classic mode. Web browsers only reliably run 120fps in the fancy Windows mode
> -- If using multimonitor, make sure all browser windows are on the primary monitor
> -- If you are using Windows 8.1, install the 1000Hz mouse fix


1; Will do this
2; Yea, several times with restarts
3; I have to do this anyway to get testufo to work
4; done, ty for mentioning that
5; w7 until we don't need silly fixes like that for basic operation ^.^

Thanks
Quote:


> Found the problem was I had the setting Preferred refresh rate set to Highest available. That caused it to be all screwy.


Yea this setting overrides refresh rate choice and forces you to 144hz if it's available, so no strobing


----------



## SightUp

To reiterate on my last problem...

I have two monitors. One is a 120hz monitor with LightBoost active. The other is a 60hz that I use purely for TeamSpeak, Steam, and Origin. The 60hz monitor flickers while the game is loading on the 120hz screen. What is causing this and how do I fix it?


----------



## crun

Still no news on pricing and availability of G-Sync monitors? I want 1080p 24" or 27" if it won't be too expensive (it will)


----------



## Cyro999

Uninstalling drivers etc now. Wanted to grab proof of issue before i did -










edit: Oops, didn't actually see that message (it was complaining of stutters before), will see if chrome does the same, but given issues first showed outside of browser i think it's still broken

Indeed









Sync fails which could be causing the issue - but then again, that's kinda the problem in the first place









reset both displays, uninstalled driver, re-installed 334.67, set display refresh rates, restarted, re-initialized and back to crystal clear 3000px/sec moving picture pans with fast eye tracking (or head turning)







Thanks!









It's interesting that it's so easy to see dropped frames in quite fast picture panning w/ strobe


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> -- Try a full driver reinstall (clean all drivers, make sure everything is removed), before reinstalling drivers via a fresh download from NVIDIA
> -- Did you re-run strobelight-setup.exe to reinstall the LightBoost mode?
> -- Make sure you keep running in the fancy/Aero mode, not the Classic mode. Web browsers only reliably run 120fps in the fancy Windows mode
> -- If using multimonitor, make sure all browser windows are on the primary monitor
> -- *If you are using Windows 8.1, install the* *1000Hz mouse fix*


I tried installing this one last night and it said that it was not needed on my machine. Do you have to have one of the listed games installed in order for this kb to install?


----------



## Cyro999

I'd guess you do need it, and you need to do the fix as described in that link (even if microsoft doesn't say so)

gl









If it won't actually install, hm.. i dunno (just realized what you meant)


----------



## Canis-X

Yeah, that's what I meant. The install process stops with the message and doesn't install the fix.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Canis-X*
> 
> Yeah, that's what I meant. The install process stops with the message and doesn't install the fix.


I did it last night. It works fine. Read the instructions thoroughly. After adding the registry entries I tried to install the update but it said I already had it installed (through automatic windows updates). After reboot, mouse rate checker indeed started reporting 500hz as opposed to 125 so works 100% (and feels significantly better)


----------



## Canis-X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> I did it last night. It works fine. Read the instructions thoroughly. After adding the registry entries I tried to install the update but it said I already had it installed (through automatic windows updates). After reboot, mouse rate checker indeed started reporting 500hz as opposed to 125 so works 100% (and feels significantly better)


Could you please specify which instructions you are referring to, the link is pretty long with a lot of information. In other words, somewhat confusing.


----------



## JackNaylorPE

Four computers here were upgraded to G-Sync via Geforce Experience and no issues as yet ....144H zTN, 120 Hz TN, 60 Hz IPS. 60Hz Eizo Pro CRT


----------



## G woodlogger

Due to Mantle people have forgotten the improvements to crossfire that AMD have planed, going away from AFR(alternate frame rendering), to off loading tasks to other GPU.






at 34.20

When upgrading to new GPU it will be very tempting to keep the old one for this. Especially effective for reducing the big FPS drops we have now.

This makes it much easier to get stable 120 Hz I think. So I am much more comfortable with buying something like eizo FG2421 without g-sync or free-sync. Waiting for a good 4k VA monitor that is affordable will take a loong time I think. Especially as my monitor hangs about 24" from my head, 27" is to big and heavy for my setup. And getting 4k in a light 24" will be difficult.

I hope Nvidia makes something similar as the Maxwell architecture look so promising.


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackNaylorPE*
> 
> Four computers here were upgraded to G-Sync via Geforce Experience and no issues as yet ....144H zTN, 120 Hz TN, 60 Hz IPS. 60Hz Eizo Pro CRT


----------



## Carniflex

Do you guys know if AMD latest drivers already support that new freesync thingy. I know it's supposed to work only with eDP screens (i.e., laptops) but I have managed to jury rig something together for desktop using eDP screens (Ipad 3 ones running off a 7870 DP port's)




The PCB boards are just for powering backlight, the DP signal is direct mechanical pass through from cable to ribbon without any additional electronics into the screens. So would be interesting to see if free-sync would work if the latest drivers support it already and to see if I can spot any difference. Do not know if TCon's in these screens support variable refresh rate though.


----------



## HesterDW

For some reason chrome won't recognize my XL2720T's refresh rate, but with Jriver + SVP + Lightboost I see a noticeable difference. Currently watching some F1. Lightboost makes you appreciate just how fast these guys are driving.


----------



## trhead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HesterDW*
> 
> For some reason chrome won't recognize my XL2720T's refresh rate, but with Jriver + SVP + Lightboost I see a noticeable difference. Currently watching some F1. Lightboost makes you appreciate just how fast these guys are driving.


Does that mean you're watching a Formula 1 race on tv at 30fps?


----------



## jerrolds

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trhead*
> 
> Does that mean you're watching a Formula 1 race on tv at 30fps?


HD broadcasting is 30fps isnt it? 1080p60 wasnt introduced till 2008.


----------



## HesterDW

The source footage is 29.97fps but I'm using SVP for frame interpolation effectively bumping it up to 120fps. Yes, I know it's not true 120fps but it's pretty close. My eyes can barely tell the difference.


----------



## Cyro999

Native 30fps footage looks nothing like 120, no matter what interpolation is done, by the same method that 540p content looks nothing like 1080 with upscaling

even if it looks good, native 60/120 would look worlds better


----------



## HesterDW

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Native 30fps footage looks nothing like 120, no matter what interpolation is done, by the same method that 540p content looks nothing like 1080 with upscaling
> 
> even if it looks good, native 60/120 would look worlds better


Worlds better seems like an exaggeration to me. I've played at 120fps, recorded, and watched at 120fps(frame interpolation) and true 120hz was better, but not worlds better. I don't know, it's subjective I guess. I do find frame interpolation looks horrid on a TV, but I enjoy it on a true 120hz monitor. I always get crap here for saying that.


----------



## littledonny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Native 30fps footage looks nothing like 120, no matter what interpolation is done, by the same method that 540p content looks nothing like 1080 with upscaling
> 
> even if it looks good, native 60/120 would look worlds better


Disagree. Frame interpolation is getting better and better. The real problem with interpolation is the interpolation computation latency + the need to have frame n and frame n-1 in order to make frame n-0.5.


----------



## Cyro999

Ok, i'l try to see some newer stuff! Interesting if you can use it to strobe content that it would otherwise be pointless for (strobing 30fps video 4 times per frame = still bad motion blur)


----------



## mdrejhon

For BENQ Z-series monitor users (XL2720Z, XL2411Z, XL2420Z), the free Blur Busters Strobe Utility is coming on March 12th:
http://www.blurbusters.com/benq-strobe-utility-announcement/



This utility can fix the strobe mis-timing problem on BENQ Z-series monitors, but only if you have a newer factory manufacture date (this utility WILL NOT WORK on the first shipped BENQ Z-series monitors). The monitor needs firmware that's dated mid-December or newer, in order to work with the Blur Busters Strobe Utility.

Features:

Adjustable persistence from 0.5ms to 4.0ms. Very wide strobe flash length adjustment range!
0.5ms persistence is sharper motion than LightBoost=10% (and much dimmer)
4.0ms persistence is brighter than LightBoost=100% (and slightly less clear motion)
The crosstalk adjustment can *fix the BENQ strobe mis-timing bug*
Allow even wider brightness adjustment range (make your BENQ much dimmer if BENQ is still too bright)
Enables 60Hz strobing (very flickery, not good on eyes, but it's there in case flicker-tolerant, good for 60fps stuff, including locked games and emulators
This is a Windows app like a ToastyX Strobelight, but specifically targeted to tweaking BENQ Blur Reduction.


----------



## Cyro999

That looks amazing


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Ok, i'l try to see some newer stuff! Interesting if you can use it to strobe content that it would otherwise be pointless for (strobing 30fps video 4 times per frame = still bad motion blur)


You need one flicker per frame for the zero motion blur effect -- and 30fps is too low, so you need interpolation to bring framerates above flicker fusion rate. So you're stuck with using interpolation if you're limited to 30fps.

For interpolation to be low-lag, you really need high framerates. Interpolating 30fps->60fps has lots of input lag, while interpolating 120fps->240fps has far less input lag. One frame-lookahead interpolation becomes 1/120sec (8ms lag) instead of 1/30sec (33ms lag). Until ultra high frame rates happens (and we have even-higher-refresh-rate displays), interpolation is not good for games/computers.


----------



## writer21

How is that 60hz strobing on the monitor besides the flicker? Is there a double image like when I run 60fps @ 120fps lightboost or is it very sharp?

Also how are the colors on the benq xl 2420z monitor? Can I get them looking very good after using a profile for lightboost and regular 144hz?

I would like a comparison between asus VG278HE monitor and 2420z for colors in lightboost, 144hz mode, and input lag with lightboost on and off.


----------



## Jack Mac

Does the 2420Z allow for different strobes at a time? As in it'll strobe from 75-120Hz.


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> Does the 2420Z allow for different strobes at a time? As in it'll strobe from 75-120Hz.


What you're asking for is a variable refresh rate (i.e. G-SYNC) combined with a strobe backlight? Doesn't exist yet, even with the upcoming G-SYNC models.

@ Writer

It's pretty sharp. I can't personally assess it properly and won't be looking at it in my upcoming review because I can't stand the flickering - and neither could anybody else looking at the monitor with me. 100Hz strobe performance is much more pleasing, however.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jack Mac*
> 
> Does the 2420Z allow for different strobes at a time? As in it'll strobe from 75-120Hz.


It does not support GSYNC.

However, you can run any single refresh rate from 60Hz through 144Hz with strobing. The utility now enables 60Hz strobing. There is, however, much less strobe crosstalk at lower refresh rates, so I highly recommend 120Hz or less.

Once the utility is released, we will find out exactly how much of the BENQ monitors supports the operation of this utility.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> How is that 60hz strobing on the monitor besides the flicker? Is there a double image like when I run 60fps @ 120fps lightboost or is it very sharp?
> 
> Also how are the colors on the benq xl 2420z monitor? Can I get them looking very good after using a profile for lightboost and regular 144hz?
> 
> I would like a comparison between asus VG278HE monitor and 2420z for colors in lightboost, 144hz mode, and input lag with lightboost on and off.


You wouldn't get double image with stroberate = refresh rate, like if you had 120/120 now


----------



## Z Overlord

man hardware vendors sure are taking their time with releasing G Sync monitors. More time to save money for them and/or an nvidia card I guess.


----------



## jerrolds

They need to move this tech to IPS/PLS 1440p monitors - no way im going back to TN/1080p

Then again id have to switch back to green team


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> How is that 60hz strobing on the monitor besides the flicker? Is there a double image like when I run 60fps @ 120fps lightboost or is it very sharp?


There's no double image effect at framerate == refreshrate == stroberate.

You get a double image effect when the stroberate is twice the frame rate.
You get a triple image effect when the stroberate is three times the frame rate.
etc.

Flicker at 60Hz is always a problem, however, it is available (it's there anyway there as a user option). Many people have asked for it anyway, and it's a user choice now. You will need the Blur Busters Strobe Utility in order to enable the 60Hz strobe capability.


----------



## delpy8

Hi guys Anyone know if this strobing issues have been fixed on the BenQ XL2720Z and when does rev 2 come out


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *delpy8*
> 
> Hi guys Anyone know if this strobing issues have been fixed on the BenQ XL2720Z and when does rev 2 come out


The strobe timing issue is fixable via the new *Blur Busters Strobe Utility* (released later in March). The Strobe Utility turn it from "worse than LightBoost" (strobe crosstalk, nonadjustable) to "better than LightBoost" (fix strobe crosstalk, huge range of persistence adjustment). This utility will only work on newer-firmware monitors.

As of March 5th, BENQ USA is working with Blur Busters for a solution to people who want units to be guaranteed compatible with Blur Busters Strobe Utility. Announcement forthcoming (likely sometime after Blur Busters Strobe Utility release).


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> The strobe timing issue is fixable via the new *Blur Busters Strobe Utility* (released later in March). The Strobe Utility turn it from "worse than LightBoost" (strobe crosstalk, nonadjustable) to "better than LightBoost" (fix strobe crosstalk, huge range of persistence adjustment). This utility will only work on newer-firmware monitors.
> 
> As of March 5th, BENQ USA is working with Blur Busters for a solution to people who want units to be guaranteed compatible with Blur Busters Strobe Utility. Announcement forthcoming (likely sometime after Blur Busters Strobe Utility release).


This is good news. I am very happy to hear this.


----------



## Cyro999

Is there any way to view these kinds of motion tests outside of a web browser? I view testufo stuff all of the time, but i have to do an awkward shuffle of restart system, close stuff, change windows theme, disable secondary screen, switch browser etcetc just to get it to function ^.^


----------



## Hasty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Is there any way to view these kinds of motion tests outside of a web browser? I view testufo stuff all of the time, but i have to do an awkward shuffle of restart system, close stuff, change windows theme, disable secondary screen, switch browser etcetc just to get it to function ^.^


Let me add my vote for a standalone UFO test.

Also +rep for mdrejhon for providing the community with comprehensive and right on spot information on display technologies and helping the cause of accurate motion portrayal.


----------



## MonarchX

Has anyone had any bad experience with the Eizo Foris 2421? Any backlight bleeding? Any checkerboard patterns?


----------



## neelrocker

There is a whole thread on it: http://www.overclock.net/t/1438195/eizo-new-240hz-eizo-foris-fg2421-gaming-monitor/830#post_21907437


----------



## jderbs

I know few people care, but nvidia has completely sabotaged lightboost + surround. The way it behaves there's no doubt in my mind they're specifically trying to break it. ******* ****s.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.


----------



## gopala33

Please help 27' monitor gaming

ASUS VG278H is discontinued
can't get
ASUS VG278H is batter then ASUS VG278HE

daam always can get ASUS VG278HE

ASUS VG278H color is batter then ASUS VG278HE

hard choose me monitor suitable gaming


----------



## jderbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*


Nice contribution. Useless.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jderbs*
> 
> Nice contribution. Useless.


Yours was better? Lets attack everyone who agrees with us


----------



## gopala33

please help i need monitor


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gopala33*
> 
> please help i need monitor


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gopala33*
> 
> Please help 27' monitor gaming
> 
> ASUS VG278H is discontinued
> can't get
> ASUS VG278H is batter then ASUS VG278HE
> 
> daam always can get ASUS VG278HE
> 
> ASUS VG278H color is batter then ASUS VG278HE
> 
> hard choose me monitor suitable gaming


I don't see where the hard choice is. One monitor is discontinued and you can't get it, the other is available. Buy the one that is available. VG278HE.


----------



## gopala33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> I don't see where the hard choice is. One monitor is discontinued and you can't get it, the other is available. Buy the one that is available. VG278HE.


i need good monitor suitable gaming i play alot FPS that i scared input lag display delay


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hasty*
> 
> Let me add my vote for a standalone UFO test.


I am evaluating possible options for this, but there are quite some challenges. It's much easier to maintain the UFO tests in HTML5, thanks to the new web standards.


----------



## mdrejhon

Meanwhile, for you BENQ XL2420Z / XL2720Z / XL2411Z users,
BENQ has announced a new firmware.

Monitors containing the V2 firmware installed, are necessary for compatibility with Blur Busters Strobe Utility, which just got released this week.


(Supports XL2411Z, XL2420Z and XL2720Z monitors with V2 firmwares)

This utility allows you to improve the ghosting in BENQ Blur Reduction, that has been previously reported, and turns the Z-Series from "worse than lightboost" into "better than lightboost".

TFTCentral also tests Blur Busters Strobe Utility:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_xl2720z.htm


----------



## Aussiejuggalo

Question, hows lightboost on AMD 290s?

And how do you completely remove lightboost and reset everything to normal?

Thanks


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aussiejuggalo*
> 
> Question, hows lightboost on AMD 290s?
> 
> And how do you completely remove lightboost and reset everything to normal?
> 
> Thanks


Worked perfectly on my 290 with the ToastyX strobelight utility. And to reset it you can do it via utility or just unplug your monitor.


----------



## mdrejhon

Presently, if you are shopping for a "lightboost" monitor today, I'd now steer towards either a NVIDIA GSYNC monitor, or a BENQ Z-Series monitor (Make sure it has V2 firmware preinstalled). Both are better than LightBoost. The new post-LightBoost technologies are getting much better.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Presently, if you are shopping for a "lightboost" monitor today, I'd now steer towards either a NVIDIA GSYNC monitor, or a BENQ Z-Series monitor (Make sure it has V2 firmware preinstalled). Both are better than LightBoost. The new post-LightBoost technologies are getting much better.


I feel bad for getting a vg248qe with rumor of the g-sync kits now~

I might sell it in future, what do you think?

As for strobe causing issues, headaches etc - i think i narrowed that one down to focusing tightly to read text, etc on OCN. For just playing games i seem fine. I should probably get rid of that habit but i was not aware of it before it caused me problems


----------



## Jeffgriffin54

Is the EIZO FG2421-BK 3d, both for gaming and general usage?
Thanks,
Jeffg54


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> I feel bad for getting a vg248qe with rumor of the g-sync kits now~
> 
> I might sell it in future, what do you think?


The GSYNC upgrade kits is available at http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/diy
But right now they are currently out of stock.


----------



## TiezZ BE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> The GSYNC upgrade kits is available at http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/diy
> But right now they are currently out of stock.


I've been looking almost every day on http://www.geforce.co.uk/ (that's what they recommended for the european vg248qe owners on their official site a while back) but still no GSYNC upgrade kits available for the euro based owners. I've tried to get an explanation from their support but they don't know what's up. An asus rep told me that the kit probably won't come available outside the US.

Do you have contacts with Nvidia to get a statement or something about this??


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> The GSYNC upgrade kits is available at http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/g-sync/diy
> But right now they are currently out of stock.


Yea i know, but it was somewhat of a disappointment to me i meant


----------



## GeneralNMX

How much were the DIY kits anyway? When I googled for how much it'd cost to upgrade if I got a VG248QE now, it said they were $200!! at release (which was more than the price of the whole damn monitor at one point!) so I'm hoping that was incorrect.

I almost bought the Eizo FG2421 a few times, being a huge fan of non-TN panels, but I just pre-ordered the new Oculus Rift Dev Kit (putting my old one up on eBay for a few bucks). I think one point people forget is that there are multiple attributes to a monitor, and as I grow older, I find myself getting concerned more and more by blur and other problems with persistence; however, not to the point where it's more important than other aspects, such as colour reproduction. The FG2421 seems like the best all-around monitor except for that huge price (and some QA problems, which you just need to keep in mind and make sure you buy it from a place with good return policies), but now that there's G-Sync in the game too, I'm thinking maybe I should just wait some more and keep with my old HP2465 (dual-DVI 24" with a decent VA panel, but bad display time and controller) until something better / more affordable comes along. But if it's true that ASUS has an exclusive license on G-Sync until Q3 2014, that sucks.


----------



## Cyro999

They were a silly price, if i could get one in the UK it would have translated to like 600usd for the monitor and kit

I would for a perfect solution - but come on, it's a single 1080p monitor. If G-sync/ULMB 1080p's come in costing four times as much as ok entry-level 1080p monitors, they will flop for the most part.


----------



## Hasty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GeneralNMX*
> 
> But if it's true that ASUS has an exclusive license on G-Sync until Q3 2014, that sucks.


Didn't know about this. Could you link me to a source please?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hasty*
> 
> Didn't know about this. Could you link me to a source please?


I thought that one was false?


----------



## GeneralNMX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hasty*
> 
> Didn't know about this. Could you link me to a source please?


It's just a rumor: http://wccftech.com/nvidia-g-sync-asus-monitors-brands-q3-2014/ , however it is a little upsetting that there isn't more information out there already about upcoming competing monitors with the G-Sync technology. What the rumor could refer to is that G-Sync itself isn't ready to be easily rolled out, and right now ASUS is the only one that will have ready products until around Q3. Other manufacturers could even be delaying for reasons such as proliferation of the GPUs required for G-Sync, as well as further development on accompanying software.

Either way, just a rumor...personally, I hope someone like Eizo makes a FG2422 that has non-G-Sync variable refresh rate, which I would probably pay an extra $100 for at least...though most of my wish with G-Sync is to see it on resolutions above 1080p to also help with when you can't get a solid 120Hz.


----------



## faction87

Ok so i havnt been using lightboost latley and i installed it again today and im using it @ 10% @ 120hz. My colors look strange tho are there any good color profiles or can someone help me out?thanks


----------



## faction87

also says im in 3D mode how to i change it to 2D mode??


----------



## Cyro999

Are you using toastyx strobelight to control it?


----------



## faction87

yes, i just uninstalled it to see if it removes 3d mode or what ever. can u help me


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *faction87*
> 
> also says im in 3D mode how to i change it to 2D mode??


If you're still in 2D mode and it says 3D is on, you're fine. The 3D light on my BenQ is always on.


----------



## faction87

i got asus one, my colors are messed up, says its in 3D mode i cant change anything on the monitor. can someonehelp.


----------



## Jack Mac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *faction87*
> 
> i got asus one, my colors are messed up, says its in 3D mode i cant change anything on the monitor. can someonehelp.


Lightboost does mess up colors and won't allow you to change monitor settings. That's normal, I just learned to live with it. Although, increasing digital vibrance may help a little.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mdrejhon*
> 
> Meanwhile, for you BENQ XL2420Z / XL2720Z / XL2411Z users,
> BENQ has announced a new firmware.
> 
> Monitors containing the V2 firmware installed, are necessary for compatibility with Blur Busters Strobe Utility, which just got released this week.
> 
> 
> (Supports XL2411Z, XL2420Z and XL2720Z monitors with V2 firmwares)
> 
> This utility allows you to improve the ghosting in BENQ Blur Reduction, that has been previously reported, and turns the Z-Series from "worse than lightboost" into "better than lightboost".
> 
> TFTCentral also tests Blur Busters Strobe Utility:
> http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_xl2720z.htm


There's a further tweak you can do to the Z monitors, one that makes moving text windows MUCH more pleasing (actually makes it 100% identical to lightboost) BUT causes inverse artifacts with graphics (particularly blacks), although black TEXT doesn't seem to be affected.
Set your blur reduction on and adjust with the utility, then go into the monitor menus and retoggle the AMA setting to high (even if its already on high). This will override the default AMA setting (based on a toned down version of high) for blur reduction and amplify it. This improves cursor and test ghosting by a GREAT deal, but will cause inverse ghosting on graphics (think of tracefree=100 on asus).

ANY change to the strobe or persistence will reset the AMA back to the default.

There's a higher AMA for the premium setting, although I would NOT recommend setting blur on and THEN Setting AMA to premium--the inverse artifacts become intolerable (text is fine like usual).
Although you can try setting it to premium first with blue off and THEN turn blur on (which, again, will tone down the AMA's default premium setting), YMMV on what you like.

There doesn't seem to be a way to make it IDENTICAL to lightboost for BOTH graphic and text at the same time, though (best of both worlds). It's possible that's an issue with 27" panels, as the 24" lightboost panels were clearer, also.


----------



## IronMaiden1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *faction87*
> 
> i got asus one, my colors are messed up, says its in 3D mode i cant change anything on the monitor. can someonehelp.


Try reinstalling the graphics drivers. Usually that resets all the settings that lightboost introduces and should put you back to default. Then you can change monitor setting before you reinstall toasty. Once your in lightboost you cant change any monitor settings as far as color goes..


----------



## Jodiuh

After a driver update, I am forced to reset the display w/ the tool, reboot, install the rates, then reboot. Kinda annoying...


----------



## Z Overlord

is there any g sync monitor with a release date yet? I can't find anything. I am surprised at how quiet nvidia and such are being about this


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> is there any g sync monitor with a release date yet? I can't find anything. I am surprised at how quiet nvidia and such are being about this


Its been a slow and miserable 1st quarter 2014 for G-sync. Im trying to hold out for 4k G-sync, but who knows when the heck that will be.....

I did pre-order a Oculus Dev kit 2. So i will be checking out its low persistance screen. Too bad its only at 75mhz. Maybe i will at least be able to tweak it to 90hz.









Mark, what was the lowest Hz/fps you have seen that a low persistance screen was benifitial. Its said to be pretty good with the Crystal cove/ DK2 OLED screen.


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> Its been a slow and miserable 1st quarter 2014 for G-sync. Im trying to hold out for 4k G-sync, but who knows when the heck that will be.....
> 
> I did pre-order a Oculus Dev kit 2. So i will be checking out its low persistance screen. Too bad its only at 75mhz. Maybe i will at least be able to tweak it to 90hz.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mark, what was the lowest Hz/fps you have seen that a low persistance screen was benifitial. Its said to be pretty good with the Crystal cove/ DK2 OLED screen.


To clarify for Mark, you presumably mean one with a strobe light source? The problem with that for many users is that the flickering becomes potentially very noticeable and irritating at relatively low refresh rates. Blurbusters recently published a few quick thoughts on 60Hz strobing which could be used for games consoles for example. The level of motion clarity is certainly very good there compared to a normal LCD but the flickering is a side-effect that some users won't be able to stomach. Just remember back to 60Hz CRTs if you can.


----------



## mksteez

is the BenQ XL2420Z that much better than the Asus VG248QE?


----------



## Jodiuh

I just wanted to share some experiences recently...

I went to a LAN and this fellow next to me went on about the eyes can only see 60 fps thing. Another fella backed me up, but he assured me it didn't matter. I was actually a little pushy (SORRY HOTSLANG, YOU REALLY DID ACTUALLY HELP ME TO BE A MORE CASUAL PLAYER AND NOW I GET TO SELL THE MONITOR AND USE THE MONEY TO BUY MY MOTHER A NICE CAMERA (SHE LOST HERS) because...and here's the kicker...I was clearly defending my product that I bought because if what he said was true...not the 60 fps thing, but the "I don't need Lightboost, it doesn't matter, and I don't see anything special, etc."

I showed them the moving map and they could definitely see.

But guess what? This guy destroyed us. I am talking about 6 v 1 CS:GO or even Hawken. Frankly it didn't matter the game, he was basically a super hero for PC gamers. One time I was on his team and we wrecked the other guys, haha! We made a good team!

Guess what?

I have packed my XL2420TE in the box and have been gaming on my 7 year old Dell S-IPS 2007 for a little while now. I do notice the motion blur, but it doesn't bother me one bit. What did bother me was the washed out colors, tint, vertical...we all know...the TN panel.

I don't know what I was thinking or why I believe it was more important to have a faster monitor. I do not care about my K/D or my skills or anything like that anymore I make it a point to NEVER hit tab now.

TLR
I am now of the opinion that 120hz monitors and ESPECIALLY LIGHTBOOST are not worth my time. I thank all of you for the experience and it was fun for awhile. I got super competitive. But that was actually a problem. I would actually be dissapointed when I died! Now I try my best to laugh each time I do die. It can be a little hard to transition from being an ultra competitive not nice guy that would teabag, etc (describing me here) to someone that:

1. Tries hard to watch his mouth.
2. Laughs often.
3. Ignores any negativity.
4. Has fun no matter what is going on.

This has done wonder for my overall mood w/ regard to this game. Anyway...

EVERYTHING IS AWESOME!!!!

Also, this 1440P TN from Asus for $800 now seems to be about $400 too much IMO. It feels like the industry is trying to pull $ from you when it's completely unnecessary. I hope this doesn't come across as negative, but I feel like something is...off...w/ the industry in various aspects and we as a community need to really pull together and stop feeding the monster. We are making it more and more prohibitive for gamers to join us in the PC industry.


----------



## KenjiS

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> I just wanted to share some experiences recently...
> 
> I went to a LAN and this fellow next to me went on about the eyes can only see 60 fps thing. Another fella backed me up, but he assured me it didn't matter. I was actually a little pushy (SORRY HOTSLANG, YOU REALLY DID ACTUALLY HELP ME TO BE A MORE CASUAL PLAYER AND NOW I GET TO SELL THE MONITOR AND USE THE MONEY TO BUY MY MOTHER A NICE CAMERA (SHE LOST HERS) because...and here's the kicker...I was clearly defending my product that I bought because if what he said was true...not the 60 fps thing, but the "I don't need Lightboost, it doesn't matter, and I don't see anything special, etc."
> 
> I showed them the moving map and they could definitely see.
> 
> But guess what? This guy destroyed us. I am talking about 6 v 1 CS:GO or even Hawken. Frankly it didn't matter the game, he was basically a super hero for PC gamers. One time I was on his team and we wrecked the other guys, haha! We made a good team!
> 
> Guess what?
> 
> I have packed my XL2420TE in the box and have been gaming on my 7 year old Dell S-IPS 2007 for a little while now. I do notice the motion blur, but it doesn't bother me one bit. What did bother me was the washed out colors, tint, vertical...we all know...the TN panel.
> 
> I don't know what I was thinking or why I believe it was more important to have a faster monitor. I do not care about my K/D or my skills or anything like that anymore I make it a point to NEVER hit tab now.
> 
> TLR
> I am now of the opinion that 120hz monitors and ESPECIALLY LIGHTBOOST are not worth my time. I thank all of you for the experience and it was fun for awhile. I got super competitive. But that was actually a problem. I would actually be dissapointed when I died! Now I try my best to laugh each time I do die. It can be a little hard to transition from being an ultra competitive not nice guy that would teabag, etc (describing me here) to someone that:
> 
> 1. Tries hard to watch his mouth.
> 2. Laughs often.
> 3. Ignores any negativity.
> 4. Has fun no matter what is going on.
> 
> This has done wonder for my overall mood w/ regard to this game. Anyway...
> 
> EVERYTHING IS AWESOME!!!!
> 
> Also, this 1440P TN from Asus for $800 now seems to be about $400 too much IMO. It feels like the industry is trying to pull $ from you when it's completely unnecessary. I hope this doesn't come across as negative, but I feel like something is...off...w/ the industry in various aspects and we as a community need to really pull together and stop feeding the monster. We are making it more and more prohibitive for gamers to join us in the PC industry.






FWIW I ended up coming to the same conclusion personally, the RoG Swift is very nice, and while I dont feel its "overpriced" (Keep in mind most of the IPS 27" 1440p displays WITHOUT G-sync or 120hz capability were/are $700-800) I just felt it was more money than I wanted to spend for the extra hairs of performance it would give... so I ordered the PB278Q and I've been very happy with it, Its noticably a lot smoother compared to my older Dell 2410 (and it was only 3 years old) while maintaining the same (or better) colors and contrast with a MUCH better coating on it.

What drove me to do it is that from my reading and understanding, 120hz is only really useful if you can maintain 120fps in most games, and unless you're running a VERY powerful rig that probubly isnt happening. 120fps at 1080p is harder than managing 60 at 1440p in many cases... and due to engine caps/limitations, 120fps isnt always possible. 1440p however is always there, things always look good, and VERY sharp... I noticed a HUGE difference because of the upgrade to 1440.. probubly more than i would have going to a 120hz screen

And 120fps at 1440 is going to be super difficult in AAA new releases...

Now I'm not saying 120hz is useless or stupid, its not, its awesome provided you can do the above...and for some people, who play nothing but CoD, CS or SC2 where hitting 120fps solid is easy (and important to their performance) its worth its weight in gold. But for most people? Eh its probubly not worth it

And as you said, the monitor isnt going to make you a better player of whatever, I have played on PCs for AGES with a 60hz refresh rate (Even my CRTs were) and I was, and still am, capable of handing people their rears a lot of the time...


----------



## delpy8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mksteez*
> 
> is the BenQ XL2420Z that much better than the Asus VG248QE?


I can't comment about the asus BUT I've got the BenQ XL2720Z and it's amazing. I went from an Asus PB278Q 2560x1440 and don't regret it


----------



## Jodiuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KenjiS*
> 
> FWIW I ended up coming to the same conclusion personally, the RoG Swift is very nice, and while I dont feel its "overpriced" (Keep in mind most of the IPS 27" 1440p displays WITHOUT G-sync or 120hz capability were/are $700-800) I just felt it was more money than I wanted to spend for the extra hairs of performance it would give... so I ordered the PB278Q and I've been very happy with it, Its noticably a lot smoother compared to my older Dell 2410 (and it was only 3 years old) while maintaining the same (or better) colors and contrast with a MUCH better coating on it.
> 
> What drove me to do it is that from my reading and understanding, 120hz is only really useful if you can maintain 120fps in most games, and unless you're running a VERY powerful rig that probubly isnt happening. 120fps at 1080p is harder than managing 60 at 1440p in many cases... and due to engine caps/limitations, 120fps isnt always possible. 1440p however is always there, things always look good, and VERY sharp... I noticed a HUGE difference because of the upgrade to 1440.. probubly more than i would have going to a 120hz screen
> 
> And 120fps at 1440 is going to be super difficult in AAA new releases...
> 
> Now I'm not saying 120hz is useless or stupid, its not, its awesome provided you can do the above...and for some people, who play nothing but CoD, CS or SC2 where hitting 120fps solid is easy (and important to their performance) its worth its weight in gold. But for most people? Eh its probubly not worth it
> 
> And as you said, the monitor isnt going to make you a better player of whatever, I have played on PCs for AGES with a 60hz refresh rate (Even my CRTs were) and I was, and still am, capable of handing people their rears a lot of the time...


That monitor looks AMAZING. But I have 3 matching 20" S-IPS panels. The contrast ratio is terrible, but I actually have really always enjoyed these monitors for browsing the web. So I'm going to keep mine and ignore the 5 stars, lol!

Yes, it is a pain. I had to fight w/ Hawken and it ruined the game for me. Now that I'm on 3 60hz, maybe I can do Nvidia Surround! I did this w/ Tomb Raider and had a BLAST!!!

120 FPS @ 1440P...HAHA! Good luck low details!

Agreed 100%. It is awesome. But I prefer the 3 IPS. It keeps my life simple. If a game doesn't support Nvidia Surround, it doesn't get played! Also, I don't have to worry about maintaining 120 FPS, which can be rough on a GPU.


----------



## mksteez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *delpy8*
> 
> I can't comment about the asus BUT I've got the BenQ XL2720Z and it's amazing. I went from an Asus PB278Q 2560x1440 and don't regret it


I can't decide if the BenQ at $399 is worth it


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCM2*
> 
> To clarify for Mark, you presumably mean one with a strobe light source? The problem with that for many users is that the flickering becomes potentially very noticeable and irritating at relatively low refresh rates. Blurbusters recently published a few quick thoughts on 60Hz strobing which could be used for games consoles for example. The level of motion clarity is certainly very good there compared to a normal LCD but the flickering is a side-effect that some users won't be able to stomach. Just remember back to 60Hz CRTs if you can.


Hopefully i can squeeze a little screen OC out of the VR panel and it doesnt bug me too much. Thanks for the response. +Rep.


----------



## Jodiuh

I found an interesting application for 120hz lightboost that has nothing to do w/ gaming. It's called foobar.

I'll test it out in a bit...currently on an IPS cause the BenQ has been grounded to the other room, lol!

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I might keep it, lol!


----------



## socketus

foobar ? on lightboost ? this I gotta see !!


----------



## Pheozero

Any opinions on the XL2720Z? I'm getting kinda tried of waiting for the RoG Swift.


----------



## jayfkay

Why does noone seem to bother with the fact that using Lightboost does not let you use custom settings of the monitor??? No fps mode, no black equalizer, no calibration possible (nvidia settings do not count as all games ignore them - except digital vibrance..).


----------



## Gregix

Why do u ask just after question about benq z series monitor?

Phoezero check blurbusters.com forum, there lots of users
Here is test http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_xl2720z.htm and other sites are some others reviews, so just check it out(google).
BTW now is possible to upgrade firmware of z series monitors just using linux and few command scripts....all on blurbusters site explained.


----------



## Z Overlord

is G Sync dead? Why have we not heard a single blurp about it?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> is G Sync dead? Why have we not heard a single blurp about it?


Releases are not imminent, there's a thread something like first g-sync monitor to be released in UK though.


----------



## mdrejhon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> is G Sync dead? Why have we not heard a single blurp about it?


The GSYNC flood is coming. Just wait 6-12 months.

Google "list of GSYNC monitors" -- NVIDIAs' list and BlurBusters' list show more than half a dozen models coming. Just several months delays on all of them simultaneously. It's quiet right now. But in 12 months from now, we'll have lots of GSYNC monitors from half a dozen vendors.

Right now, "better-than-60Hz" upgrade cycles are accelerated due to the large number of various motion-enhancing technologies (120Hz, 144Hz, GSYNC, FreeSync, LightBoost, ULMB, Turbo240, BENQ Blur Reduction, etc) that have arrived in the last year or two. But some of the tech is taking a bit longer (e.g. GSYNC).


----------



## airisom2

Just got the XL2720Z. Awesome monitor. I had the XL2720T prior, and the Z has slightly better colors, darker blacks, and no dithering. Blur Reduction mode is like lightboost with no color shift (just makes it darker), and allows much greater customization with Blur Buster's utility. Plus, the low persistence mode works at 144Hz.

Now, I'm stuck with it until 120Hz+ 4K comes out...it's okay, though


----------



## chicandtoast

I feel like G-sync just has a lot of competition coming it's way. V-sync, adaptive-sync, freesync. Here's an article I read recently on it.

http://toptengamer.squidoo.com/top-g-sync-monitors Do you think g-sync is dead?


----------



## TiezZ BE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chicandtoast*
> 
> I feel like G-sync just has a lot of competition coming it's way. V-sync, adaptive-sync, freesync. Here's an article I read recently on it.
> 
> http://toptengamer.squidoo.com/top-g-sync-monitors Do you think g-sync is dead?


Article says nothing new about it. V-sync and adaptive V-sync are around for a while and aren't full proof solutions. G-sync isn't quite there either btw (added input latency when fps = Hz) but has more potential for the future imo. Free sync needs to get tested by third party reviewers/users.


----------



## vanSCHYNEYDER

Hi. guys.

So, talking about XL2420T and XL2420Z.

I have one XL2420T. And Im using Strobelight w/ brightness 10% @ 120 Hz.

Its really fast, really good to play competitive games (like CS:GO).

And, now, Im thinking to buy a XL2420Z.

With XL2420Z can I have, enjoy, a input lag like the XL2420T WITH STROBELIGHT ON (brightness 10%) and keep my settings of sharpness, brightness and contrast ?

What I want is the 120 Hz + the lowest input lag possible and keep my settings, using the Standard predefinition and use my settings of sharpness, brightness and contrast, GAMMA, RGB ...

Using the Blurbusters utility, with the XL2420Z, can I setup the display and keep my settings of sharpness, brightness and contrast, GAMMA, RGB ?

And it's possible one monitor run @ DISPLAYPORT > 120Hz and one second monitor run @DVI-D > 120 Hz ?

Thanks and sorry for the long post !


----------



## Harrywang

I don't know about the dual monitor setup question, but I just recently bought the XL2411Z(exact same monitor) and let me give you a mini review

Just like you I play CS:GO and dota 2 at a relatively high level and all I can say is this is the best damn monitor on the market right now. It is even better then the ASUS ROG in many ways if you are like me and only care about low input lag and want motion blur free.

Blur reduction is amazing with the strobe utility thanks to blurbusters.com it makes this monitor a complete beast. Yes you get all ur calibrated settings but the only thing is your brightness/luminance goes down dramatically with blur reduction on. There is a complete fix though which is the VT 1502/1300 trick which you can read up about on blurbusters.com

With the fix brightness is improved by 2X so basically all the downsides of having blur reduction on is completely gone.

This is pretty much the perfect monitor for gaming. Since getting this monitor my skill has improved drastically in CS GO. Shots are so much easier to make and you win a LOT more close up battles because you get to react a lot more faster then them. It is pretty OP.

The colors on this monitor is pretty good to for a TN.

The asus vg248qe shouldn't really be an option anymore when it comes to motion blur gaming IMO. If you just take 30 mins to an hour of your time tweaking the Z series monitor i see no reason to get anything else. The ASUS rog so far has been a dissapointment with the recent review on TFT central. Even then if you are playing CS GO or anything competitive like that g sync has absolutely no effect because you should be getting high frames or TRYING to achieve high frame rates in those type of games.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Harrywang*
> 
> I don't know about the dual monitor setup question, but I just recently bought the XL2411Z(exact same monitor) and let me give you a mini review
> 
> Just like you I play CS:GO and dota 2 at a relatively high level and all I can say is this is the best damn monitor on the market right now. It is even better then the ASUS ROG in many ways if you are like me and only care about low input lag and want motion blur free.
> 
> Blur reduction is amazing with the strobe utility thanks to blurbusters.com it makes this monitor a complete beast. Yes you get all ur calibrated settings but the only thing is your brightness/luminance goes down dramatically with blur reduction on. There is a complete fix though which is the VT 1502/1300 trick which you can read up about on blurbusters.com
> 
> With the fix brightness is improved by 2X so basically all the downsides of having blur reduction on is completely gone.
> 
> This is pretty much the perfect monitor for gaming. Since getting this monitor my skill has improved drastically in CS GO. Shots are so much easier to make and you win a LOT more close up battles because you get to react a lot more faster then them. It is pretty OP.
> 
> The colors on this monitor is pretty good to for a TN.
> 
> The asus vg248qe shouldn't really be an option anymore when it comes to motion blur gaming IMO. If you just take 30 mins to an hour of your time tweaking the Z series monitor i see no reason to get anything else. The ASUS rog so far has been a dissapointment with the recent review on TFT central. Even then if you are playing CS GO or anything competitive like that g sync has absolutely no effect because you should be getting high frames or TRYING to achieve high frame rates in those type of games.


Have to agree.
For motion blur reduction, Benq wins hands down.
Only drawback to the Benq is overdrive artifacts...their AMA is just horrible compared to Asus ' tracefree--that's why lightboost on a VG248QE looks MUCH cleaner and more ghosting free than lightboost on the XL2420Z/XL2411Z, or the T versions, since we're talking about lightboost, to compare apples to apples (note: these are the EXACT SAME monitor panel as the VG248QE--the panel part numbers are --identical--), but well, until Asus comes out with their OWN motion blur reduction, with the improvements of their tracefree RTC, and increased luminance during strobing (which ULMB does NOT have), the benq wins here.

The ROG Swift is great for being a 27", and if you do NOT care about motion blur reduction at all, then you WANT this screen, as gsync (which is just adaptive vsync +variable refresh rate, tbh) gives you **ALL** of the advantages of vsync on + triple buffering WITHOUT the input lag, getting this screen because of ULMB is a bit more questionable, since as explained on TFTcentral, the luminance apparently does NOT increase during strobed mode, which makes the screen simply too dark. (Lightboost and Benq MBR add luminance during strobing on cycles, to compensate for the loss of brightness during storbing).


----------



## Gregix

Sure, but U must have Nvidia card/drivers to get g-sync working... XL2420Z/XL2411Z doesn't require this...
I know most ppl focused on pure power would use Nvidia's gfx, as they superior atm, but there is many of AMD gfx users...


----------



## MonarchX

When are they going to port G-Sync onto ULMB? It sucks having 2 different modes, where each one has major advantages and dis-advantages. We need an AIO package:

1. ULMB with response time of 0.5ms at most @ 120Hz
2. ULMB G-Sync
3. ULMB on a high quality VA panel that has at least 5000:1 native contrast ratio
4. ULMB with good service menu or OSD menu calibration controls (at least 2pt RGB WB gains + offsets and colorspace saturation & hue adjustments)
5. ULMB on a semi-glossy screen
6. 1440p 27" or 4K 28"+

Now THAT would be a killer monitor!!!


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> When are they going to port G-Sync onto ULMB?


Lots of technical challenges like maintaining a constant brightness when strobing for the same amount (or similar amount) of time, once per refresh, at a variable refresh rate etc


----------



## stren

So the swift is just too dark when running ULMB? I was hoping it would be awesome and ULMB would work with AMD even if gsync didn't. So best bet for picture quality with lightboost is still the 1080p eizo screens that Vega had?


----------



## catacavaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Lots of technical challenges like maintaining a constant brightness when strobing for the same amount (or similar amount) of time, once per refresh, at a variable refresh rate etc


would you rather have Gsync or ULMB when playing fast paced games (include your favorite game here) ?
Im asking because i've always been an IPS user and this new monitor is tempting me back to the TN land.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catacavaco*
> 
> would you rather have Gsync or ULMB when playing fast paced games (include your favorite game here) ?
> Im asking because i've always been an IPS user and this new monitor is tempting me back to the TN land.


Good for many games, counterstrike, natural selection 2 etc yea 1000%. Gsync probably better for stuff like league of legends, and it's pretty mandatory to use it for games that have microstutter issues (like starcraft 2 and heroes of the storm). Also MMO's etc you'd want g-sync, as even 120hz strobing has significant eyestrain for me if it's for more than a few hours at a time, so it's not suitable for playing 40 hours of MMO on a long weekend, even if you can maintain high FPS (modern mmo's typically are not the best at utilizing many CPU cores and have periods of very low FPS, like 30-40 in bad cases, which is far beyond unacceptable for 120hz strobing)

I don't play a ton of games, so i can't give great examples atm


----------



## Scorpion49

Hey guys, I'm trying to decide between the BenQ XL2420Z and the XL2720Z. I want to try the 144hz/ULMB now that my VG236HE is so old. I looked at other screens and have tried a few but I just can't give up the response time and smoothness associated with the high refresh rate TN panels. I was also hugely disappointed with the Eizo Foris FG2421, I tried two of them and they both had awful gamma shift/banding/light bleed that I couldn't stomach on a $600 display.

I believe the previous gen BenQ 27" had better colors than the 24" models, is that still true for this gen? Is it worth the extra $110 over the 24"?


----------



## PCM2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Hey guys, I'm trying to decide between the BenQ XL2420Z and the XL2720Z. I want to try the 144hz/ULMB now that my VG236HE is so old. I looked at other screens and have tried a few but I just can't give up the response time and smoothness associated with the high refresh rate TN panels. I was also hugely disappointed with the Eizo Foris FG2421, I tried two of them and they both had awful gamma shift/banding/light bleed that I couldn't stomach on a $600 display.
> 
> I believe the previous gen BenQ 27" had better colors than the 24" models, is that still true for this gen? Is it worth the extra $110 over the 24"?


It is still true, at least from what I've seen (one XL2720Z and two XL2420Zs). The XL2720Z's colours are richer in the 'Standard' mode at a given gamma setting then the XL2420Z, but I still feel there is a fair bit of room for improvement. Some people would argue that getting the XL2420Z and putting the money saved towards a colorimeter would be preferable. I don't generally feel ICC profiles are as desirable for games as a proper OSD-calibration, but in this case they do make an improvement on games that use them.


----------



## MakubeX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Hey guys, I'm trying to decide between the BenQ XL2420Z and the XL2720Z. I want to try the 144hz/ULMB now that my VG236HE is so old. I looked at other screens and have tried a few but I just can't give up the response time and smoothness associated with the high refresh rate TN panels. I was also hugely disappointed with the Eizo Foris FG2421, I tried two of them and they both had awful gamma shift/banding/light bleed that I couldn't stomach on a $600 display.
> 
> I believe the previous gen BenQ 27" had better colors than the 24" models, is that still true for this gen? Is it worth the extra $110 over the 24"?


ULMB is only available for G-sync monitors. BenQ's tech is very ordinarily called Blur Reduction. Not sure about the colors of the 27" vs the 24", but whichever BenQ you get make sure it has the firmware to support BlurBuster's BenQ utility.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MakubeX*
> 
> ULMB is only available for G-sync monitors. BenQ's tech is very ordinarily called Blur Reduction. Not sure about the colors of the 27" vs the 24", but whichever BenQ you get make sure it has the firmware to support BlurBuster's BenQ utility.


Yeah I meant the Blur Reduction, sorry. I'd love to have a Gsync display but those seem like they might ship on the 7th of never. I think I'll go for the 27", and I do plan to use the blurbusters utility as they should all be shipping with V2 firmware by now.


----------



## MonarchX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> Hey guys, I'm trying to decide between the BenQ XL2420Z and the XL2720Z. I want to try the 144hz/ULMB now that my VG236HE is so old. I looked at other screens and have tried a few but I just can't give up the response time and smoothness associated with the high refresh rate TN panels. I was also hugely disappointed with the Eizo Foris FG2421, I tried two of them and they both had awful gamma shift/banding/light bleed that I couldn't stomach on a $600 display.
> 
> I believe the previous gen BenQ 27" had better colors than the 24" models, is that still true for this gen? Is it worth the extra $110 over the 24"?


Where were your FG2421 units made? The ones from Germany tend to suck and the ones from Japan to be really good. I received one from Japan and aside from 2x 2-3mm strips of gamma shift on the left and on the right that I never noticed in games, there was nothing wrong with it. I have absolutely 0% light bleed. I guess its a VA panel lottery for ya, but I got lucky














.

I don't see how a TN panel would replace FG2421 though... TN panels have much worse gamma shift, usually less accurate colors (ASUS ROG has decent accuracy), but even with accurate colors their low contrast ratio makes the picture incredibly flat. ULMB is too dim to even bother. I say give FG2421 another go, but order from a different place that ships Japanese versions.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> Where were your FG2421 units made? The ones from Germany tend to suck and the ones from Japan to be really good. I received one from Japan and aside from 2x 2-3mm strips of gamma shift on the left and on the right that I never noticed in games, there was nothing wrong with it. I have absolutely 0% light bleed. I guess its a VA panel lottery for ya, but I got lucky
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I don't see how a TN panel would replace FG2421 though... TN panels have much worse gamma shift, usually less accurate colors (ASUS ROG has decent accuracy), but even with accurate colors their low contrast ratio makes the picture incredibly flat. ULMB is too dim to even bother. I say give FG2421 another go, but order from a different place that ships Japanese versions.


The FG2421 is literally the worst monitor I have ever seen. I have a no-name brand 15" TN panel from 2004 that looks better than that $600 turd. Both of mine were from Japan, and both of them supposedly made in the "good" timeframe. I use an "inferior" TN panel now and with it sitting side by side with the Eizo at least it can display the same color all the way down the screen, the FG2421 on OCN for example the top and bottom would both be varying shades of purple instead of blue with huge patches of dark and light areas from the backlight bleeding. I tried them with AMD, Nvidia and integrated Intel. I tired HDMI, I tired DP, I tried DVI. I tried limited RGB forced in windows and on the monitor.

I went through weeks of trying to get something not resembling an old plasma TV that someone ran a huge magnet over and failed. That screen is a money gamble based on the throwaways from their higher end lines, it could have paid off nicely like the Korean 27" IPS/PLS panels but they simply didn't bother making it decent. If you got one of the very, very few units with no problems then good for you, but I don't have the time or the energy to keep returning them until I get one that is acceptable.

Monitor snobs love to bag on TN panels, and frankly it gets old. Every type has its advantages and disadvantages, I personally could not care less about color accuracy or viewing angles (I don't typically try to use my monitor from 170* to the side, I plant my butt right in front of it). I want high refresh rate and good response time (something the FG2421 also does not have, it is much slower than a 120hz TN panel). Don't forget that people have varying needs, not everyone wants what you do.


----------



## glenster

"ULMB is too dim to even bother."

Chief Blur Buster correction of misinformation that mischaracterized the ROG
Swift ULMB as causing the screen to get dark:
http://forums.blurbusters.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=891&start=150


----------



## Scorpion49

So I finally got my monitor in today, I ended up getting the BenQ XL2420Z as I couldn't afford the extra for the 27". I had to turn off the black level adjustment so it didn't look like I was trying to stick my face directly onto the surface of the sun when I look at the screen, as well as bring the brightness down to 20. It looks "OK" I guess, but the colors are crap (still) compared to my 6 year old VG236HE. The AG coating isn't too heavy but it will take some getting used to after having glossy for so many years, now I just need to load up a game and try the Blur Reduction to see if its something I like.


----------



## MakubeX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> So I finally got my monitor in today, I ended up getting the BenQ XL2420Z as I couldn't afford the extra for the 27". I had to turn off the black level adjustment so it didn't look like I was trying to stick my face directly onto the surface of the sun when I look at the screen, as well as bring the brightness down to 20. It looks "OK" I guess, but the colors are crap (still) compared to my 6 year old VG236HE. The AG coating isn't too heavy but it will take some getting used to after having glossy for so many years, now I just need to load up a game and try the Blur Reduction to see if its something I like.


The colors will be crap with factory settings. You'll need to calibrate the monitor to make them better. If don't have access to a colorimeter then I would recommend looking online for calibrated icc profiles for your monitor that you can download. If nothing else, you could at least try this: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MakubeX*
> 
> The colors will be crap with factory settings. You'll need to calibrate the monitor to make them better. If don't have access to a colorimeter then I would recommend looking online for calibrated icc profiles for your monitor that you can download. If nothing else, you could at least try this: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/


I tweaked to to where it looks decent, I wasn't actually upset about that because I expected it. However, I don't know if it was worth it because the Blur Reduction mode makes me sick to my stomach, playing a game with it on for 5 minutes has me ready to throw up. I forgot I reacted that way to the Eizo FG2421 240hz mode as well.


----------



## MakubeX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> I tweaked to to where it looks decent, I wasn't actually upset about that because I expected it. However, I don't know if it was worth it because the Blur Reduction mode makes me sick to my stomach, playing a game with it on for 5 minutes has me ready to throw up. I forgot I reacted that way to the Eizo FG2421 240hz mode as well.


Yikes. And this is even after configuring the settings the Blur Busters tool and doing the 1350VT tweak? If so, then if 120hz+ gaming alone is no biggie to you, then yeah, I think you'll be better off with an IPS.


----------



## Scorpion49

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MakubeX*
> 
> Yikes. And this is even after configuring the settings the Blur Busters tool and doing the 1350VT tweak? If so, then if 120hz+ gaming alone is no biggie to you, then yeah, I think you'll be better off with an IPS.


Yeah, well I tried to configure it anyways. I can't look at those scrolling images for very long with the blur reduction on (honestly I can't tell any difference between 144hz and 120hz blur reduction anyways so it isn't a big deal). I do like the rest of the monitor, the AG coating is actually a nice addition because I have lights behind me in my room now and the non-PWM backlight is also very nice. My biggest beef with this screen is it takes FOR-EV-ER to change "resolutions". If I alt-tab or exit out of a game it takes it like 15-20 seconds to display anything again where my old one was instantaneous.


----------



## Antoniv

Hello, few questions: Does benq plan to release a manually upgradeable g-sync kit for XL2411T?

I've started using lightboost though, is it normal to have a blue/purple brightness? I can't change my settings from the control panel (brightness etc).


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Antoniv*
> 
> Hello, few questions: Does benq plan to release a manually upgradeable g-sync kit for XL2411T?
> 
> I've started using lightboost though, is it normal to have a blue/purple brightness? I can't change my settings from the control panel (brightness etc).


They are releasing GSync specific monitors this fall so I doubt it.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Antoniv*
> 
> Hello, few questions: Does benq plan to release a manually upgradeable g-sync kit for XL2411T?
> 
> I've started using lightboost though, is it normal to have a blue/purple brightness? I can't change my settings from the control panel (brightness etc).


Quote:


> Q: My colors are washed out!
> 
> You can adjust colors via nVidia Control Panel, while viewing the Lagom LCD Patterns.
> For a quick fix to make colors more saturated, and undo the LightBoost gamma bleaching effect, adjust nVidia Control Panel settings to:
> 
> nVidia Control Panel Desktop Brightness = 52%
> nVidia Control Panel Desktop Contrast = 45%
> nVidia Control Panel Desktop Gamma = 0.70


^Source: http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost-faq/ - not sure how much it applies for you, but give it a shot


----------



## Antoniv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> ^Source: http://www.blurbusters.com/zero-motion-blur/lightboost-faq/ - not sure how much it applies for you, but give it a shot


Another trick I found is increasing brightness in the game itself


----------



## Cyro999

I have no issues with brightness on minimum strobe length, the max strobe length is significantly higher brightness than what i use 24/7 iirc


----------



## Thalandros

Right so, after a very long time of looking at G-sync monitors, I've decided that it's just not worth it for me right now. The ridiculous prices some companies are charging for this little piece of hardware is insane for the panel itself. I do want to get a 144hz monitor with my new GTX 970 that I'll be getting next week though. It's used for both competitive gaming (SC2 & CS:GO) and some on-the-side gaming of single player RPGs aswell like The Witcher, the Batman games, etcetera.

I'm pretty new to everything and luckily I've had the privilege of Cyro here explaining some stuff to me. I suppose I have to choose between the newer models from Acer, the Acer GN246HLBid, Asus VG248QE, and the XL2411T from BenQ. Now BenQ has their marketed ''Blur Reduction'' while both Acer and ASUS use Lightboost. Which is most foulproof and best for the price? The Aceris a bit cheaper so I'm assuming slightly worse build quality as well, but I'm not sure if any of these monitors have a significant edge of any of the others? If so, please tell me!







Monitors in Europe are quite overpriced, they charge the same in EUR as they do in USD. =( ~€290 for both BenQ and ASUS, while I get asked €250 for the Acer model.

Thanks in advance!


----------



## neelrocker

Nvidia said they will be compatible with adaptive-sync, so I'd wait begining of next year to see new monitors.


----------



## Thalandros

Which will be compatible? I thought most any monitors would be?


----------



## neelrocker

We don't clearly know yet.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thalandros*
> 
> Which will be compatible? I thought most any monitors would be?


Only a fraction of ones shipped -after- the scaler standard is made will support it. No monitors before that time will. Also, it might not get instant or widespread support, because AMD have said IIRC that they will only support it on certain GPU's


----------



## neelrocker

Nvidia France said they have no plan (yet ?) to support adaptive-sync.
We'll have to wait to know what will finally happen...


----------



## Thalandros

So, I finally got my BenQ XL2411Z. I've got it for general purpose, but obviously mostly for gaming (RTS & games like CS:GO).

I wanted to try the Blur Reduction so I downloaded the Blurbuster's tool, set the persistence to ~3MS because it's a bit too dark for me otherwise, while the crosstalk is at the minimum.

I have a problem though; I barely notice it! When scrolling through text and focusing on one word I do, and it's pretty convenient, but it's not as earth shattering as thought the blur reduction/lightboost would be and I've yet to play a couple of competitive CS:Go matches, but am I maybe doing something wrong, or is it not a big deal at all? Where should I be looking to see optimal ''difference''?

Yes, the game is running at a solid 144hz/144fps.









Edit: I was thinking the AMA setting had something to do with it?


----------



## Falkentyne

You should use the CRU.exe edit to set the 100hz and 120hz 1920x1080 settings to a vertical total of 1500. 1350 VT shouldn't require the pixel clock patcher by ToastyX, but 1500 definitely well (the highest VT you can use is 1502, but using 1502 instead of 1500 (no visual difference anyway) can cause very very slight banding, as 1503 goes out of signal. As Chief said, using a 1500 VT gives a larger blanking interveral so the GtG transitions finish sooner, and that cuts down the size of the strobe crosstalk band (that can be very annoying if you don't use it).

That tweak doesn't work at 144 hz.

Also, never change AMA if Blur reduction is on; changing AMA after BBR is already enabled overrides the BBR custom AMA settings and can look very bad. Just keep it at high.

Also, the monitor has lightboost as well but that has to be unlocked with the 3d vision drivers; strobelight doesn't work.
VT 1149 for 120hz and VT 1138 for 100hz.


----------



## dezahp

Hey all, I just set up lightboost with the strobe utility and then also saw there is the vertical total trick. You create a custom res 1920 x 1080 with 120hz and 1350 total vertical with CRU but was wondering after that is done, what do I do to make it work with a 1024 x 768 res? I play 1024 x 768 with CSGO. I'm not sure what to input the total vertical as when making a custom 1024 x 768 res.

edit: i have a benq xl2411z


----------



## Falkentyne

VT 1500 looks better than VT 1350 but you may see a scanlines effect on the screen, and the amount will vary from panel to panel. This also happens in Lightboost mode (which does not have VT Tweaks, just the 1138/1149 VT) as Lightboost uses accelerated scanout to do similarly what the VT tweak does for benq blur reduction.

For lower resolution standard resolutions (e.g. 1024x768) to use the VT tweak, you need to enable GPU scaling so it uses the 1920x1080 VT tweak refresh rate, downscaled, as display scaling (Monitor OSD) is unreliable or nonfunctional with VT tweaks. Using display scaled lower resolutions with VT Tweaks is next to impossible as the presence of the VT tweak does strange things to the monitor scaler (notice that when using a VT tweak, the refresh rate says 60hz on the OSD? Now, go to "picture advanced->Display mode" when you are using a VT Tweak, and select Aspect (this should be GREYED OUT and NOT available at 1920x1080), or one of the 17"-19"+ screen sizes. Notice the aspect ratio is completely messed up and bizarre?

(that's because with a VT 1500 tweak, the scaler thinks the panel is using a vertical size of 1440p (height) instead of 1080...)
So you can see that display scaled custom resolutions under 1920x1080 will be problematic. Just use GPU scaling.

Note: for 4:3 resolutions, you can create a custom 1440x1080 resolution with a vertical total 1500 VT successfully, since the vertical size is the same as native (but you're still better off using GPU scaling for 1920x1080 if you are not using a VT tweak, although, for some reason, the video drivers ignore the full or 1:1 settings (this sometimes happens at 120hz but not at 100hz (if you created a 1440x1080 120hz custom res, WITHOUT a vt tweak), and the monitor thinks it's gpu scaled and the GPU thinks its display scaled)


----------



## dezahp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> VT 1500 looks better than VT 1350 but you may see a scanlines effect on the screen, and the amount will vary from panel to panel. This also happens in Lightboost mode (which does not have VT Tweaks, just the 1138/1149 VT) as Lightboost uses accelerated scanout to do similarly what the VT tweak does for benq blur reduction.
> 
> For lower resolution standard resolutions (e.g. 1024x768) to use the VT tweak, you need to enable GPU scaling so it uses the 1920x1080 VT tweak refresh rate, downscaled, as display scaling (Monitor OSD) is unreliable or nonfunctional with VT tweaks. Using display scaled lower resolutions with VT Tweaks is next to impossible as the presence of the VT tweak does strange things to the monitor scaler (notice that when using a VT tweak, the refresh rate says 60hz on the OSD? Now, go to "picture advanced->Display mode" when you are using a VT Tweak, and select Aspect (this should be GREYED OUT and NOT available at 1920x1080), or one of the 17"-19"+ screen sizes. Notice the aspect ratio is completely messed up and bizarre?
> 
> (that's because with a VT 1500 tweak, the scaler thinks the panel is using a vertical size of 1440p (height) instead of 1080...)
> So you can see that display scaled custom resolutions under 1920x1080 will be problematic. Just use GPU scaling.
> 
> Note: for 4:3 resolutions, you can create a custom 1440x1080 resolution with a vertical total 1500 VT successfully, since the vertical size is the same as native (but you're still better off using GPU scaling for 1920x1080 if you are not using a VT tweak, although, for some reason, the video drivers ignore the full or 1:1 settings (this sometimes happens at 120hz but not at 100hz (if you created a 1440x1080 120hz custom res, WITHOUT a vt tweak), and the monitor thinks it's gpu scaled and the GPU thinks its display scaled)


Sorry if I'm unable to grasp what you're saying right away, I'm still relatively new to this. So would it better to create a custom 1440x1080 res with 1500 VT and it would work with 1024 x 768? With CSGO being the only game I play in 4:3 stretched 1024 x 768 and everything else in 1920 x 1080, is it fine if I create the two 1440x1080 and 1920x1080 custom resolutions with 1500 VT?


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## Falkentyne

No, what I'm saying is there is NO reason to use 1024x768 if the game engine will accept a 1440x1080 resolution.
Both are 4:3.
Both have the exact same aspect.
1080 fits in the vertical size of a 1920x1080 screen perfectly, without distortion or interpolation, with only black bars horizontally. The image will be 1:1 with full size vertically without interpolation.
1024x768 if stretched vertically by Aspect setting, will look distorted. And 1:1 will be a tiny centered image with black bars all over.
So as long as the game will accept a 1440x1080 custom resolution (even if you have to edit ini/cfg files for it), there's no point in using 1024x768. (even without a vertical total tweak).

By creating a 1440x1080 custom resolution (Default vertical total) and enabling 'GPU scaling" in the drivers, you will be using your 1920x1080 custom settings, so a VT tweak installed at 1920x1080 will be applied to 1440x1080 since it will be scaled by the GPU. Then you don't need to worry about a VT for lower resolutions. I don't think this should be hard to understand.

If you do NOT intend on using GPU scaling, it's very difficult to create a 1024x768 custom resolution with a vertical total, due to how VTs affect the monitor scaler (Display scaling). The Benq has a built in scaler, but any VT change affects the scaler in strange ways (if you try to use the scaling options in the OSD). I temporarily tested a Display scaled 1440x1080 resolution (1440 horizontal, 1080 vertical, front porch 48 pixels 3 lines, sync width 32 pixels 5 lines, Horizontal total 2080, vertical total 1500, 100hz refresh rate, (with pixel clock patcher installed for pixel clocks higher than 330.00 MHz) and it worked fine, but that's because the vertical matches the physical screen size (1080=1080). But it's MUCH easier if you just create a 1440x1080 with STANDARD timings (without any VT change) and enable GPU scaling, then install your Vertical Total tweak for [email protected] or 120hz.


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## dezahp

Oh ok I understand. That makes a lot more sense to me now. I'll create a 1440x1080 res with CRU then and start from there.

Main reason I insisted on 1024 x 768 because CS players are used to and stick with what they've been using since cs 1.6.


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## Falkentyne

Yes I understand that. Even though this changes for CS:Go--CS Go is widescreen aware, so the hud won't be messed up when using non 4:3 resolutions, in something like CS:Source or older, using a 16:9 resolution or something newer like 21:9 completely changes the way your aiming is and how your muscle memory responds, as well as to what's on the screen in what location.

The key in these older games is the aspect ratio remaining intact.

1024x768, 1280x960, 1600x1200, 2048x1536 all keep the 4:3 aspect ratio intact (these were common /max resolutions on certain CRT's).
1440x1080 does this on a 1080p screen, but there were never any 1440x1080 monitors released. This resolution was usually used by camcorders and video recording for various purposes.

On a 1440p monitor like on the newer 27" Gsync and Freesync monitors, the resolution you must create is 1920x1440.
so 1440x1080 on 1080p screens, 1920x1440 on 1400p screens.

There was an old reddit thread here:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/2f0n87/psa_add_1440x1080_through_your_video_drivers_to/


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## Joe13

Hi, it seems I have a problem with my 980 Ti SLI and my gsync monitor. I have 38000 pts in 3dmark firestrike with my 980 Ti 2-way SLI. When I use my gsync monitor and do the same test, I have 33000 pts, 15% less, with gsync ON or OFF.
I have tried with one card and I have the same score. But when I reactivate my 2-Way SLI, I still have 15% performance loss compared with my non-GSYNC monitor.
Does anyone found the same problem? If you have a non-gsync monitor and a gsync monitor, it would be interesting to do the test with 2-way SLI


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## s1rrah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Joe13*
> 
> . But when I reactivate my 2-Way SLI, I still have 15% performance loss compared with my non-GSYNC monitor.
> Does anyone found the same problem? If you have a non-gsync monitor and a gsync monitor, it would be interesting to do the test with 2-way SLI


It's not a problem with your cards ...

I've read in multiple locations online that when benching (3DMark, etc.) ... you should disable Vsync and Gsync as they will negatively affect your score...

When running benchmarks, just run without either and this is, technically, your rigs maximum synthetic score ...

But gaming with G Sync is a far far more pleasurable experience than gaming without it ... nevermind the synthetic benchmark scores. Benching is one thing, gaming another.

Best,
Joel


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## Joe13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s1rrah*
> 
> It's not a problem with your cards ...
> 
> I've read in multiple locations online that when benching (3DMark, etc.) ... you should disable Vsync and Gsync as they will negatively affect your score...
> 
> When running benchmarks, just run without either and this is, technically, your rigs maximum synthetic score ...
> 
> But gaming with G Sync is a far far more pleasurable experience than gaming without it ... nevermind the synthetic benchmark scores. Benching is one thing, gaming another.
> 
> Best,
> Joel


Just see this post:
http://forums.evga.com/Massive-performance-hit-with-SLI-on-GSync-displays-SOLVED-Was-an-own-issue-with-PCIe-m2281481.aspx
It seems that is depends of the PCI-E version. gsync + sli need PCI-E 3.0.
And, of course, I did the benchmark with vsync et gsync OFF...


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