# [DSO/Bioware]Dragon Age Inquisition is using new Denuvo DRM / anti temper solution



## digiadventures

As stated in the game's EULA
Quote:


> The PC version of this Software uses Origin Online Activation and Sony DADC Austria AG's Denuvo content protection technology."


This is same protection used in Fifa 15 and Lords of the fallen, both of these games haven't been cracked yet.

SOURCE

Also confirmed in the bioware forums by bioware employee

SOURCE


----------



## XAslanX

So not only do you have to deal with the spyware that is Origin, but also performance affecting secondary DRM? As if I need another reason not to buy EA games, this just stacks on top of the pile.


----------



## HowHardCanItBe

lol when will these publishers/developers learn that DRM doesn't work and it only robs the choice and hurts those who buy it legitimately. Oh well, their loss.


----------



## digiadventures

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *5entinel*
> 
> lol when will these publishers/developers learn that DRM doesn't work and it only robs the choice and hurts those who buy it legitimately. Oh well, their loss.


Well this new drm seems to work for now, Fifa hasn't been cracked for almost two months now. Since its offline only solution, no need to customers to connect online, I belive it will be cracked eventually. But in the meantime, pirates will get impatient and simply buy dragon age 3.
Even if it lasts only a month more, it can be considered very successful.

But we will see I guess how long it lasts


----------



## Moragg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *5entinel*
> 
> lol when will these publishers/developers learn that DRM doesn't work and it only robs the choice and hurts those who buy it legitimately. Oh well, their loss.


Performance-affecting DRM does make me wonder: if it's cracked, could that give better performance with the cracked, illegal version than the official one?

Because that would really, really suck.


----------



## Cybertox

Good thing I am not buying Dragon Age. Wont have to deal with this crap.


----------



## th3illusiveman

I finish my school in early December, hopefully this game hasn't been ripped to shreds by then. This and GTA5 are the only games i care about right now.


----------



## zalbard

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XAslanX*
> 
> So not only do you have to deal with the spyware that is Origin, but also performance affecting secondary DRM?


I am yet to see any proof of this DRM affecting performance in a noticeable way. What a load of nonsense.


----------



## XAslanX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zalbard*
> 
> I am yet to see any proof of this DRM affecting performance in a noticeable way. What a load of nonsense.


Yes it is a load of nonsense that this unwanted DRM is being forced on us consumers.


----------



## Shadowarez

Yeah i have zero issues with lords of fallen. Perfect steady fps no crashes, i did buy mine on steam though.


----------



## Assirra

Seriously, DRM in DRM?
This is getting crazy.


----------



## kael13

Apparently FIFA 15 has no performance issues, so how can Lords of the Fallen's bad performance be blamed on its DRM?


----------



## BradleyW

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kael13*
> 
> Apparently FIFA 15 has no performance issues, so how can Lords of the Fallen's bad performance be blamed on its DRM?


Apparently.


----------



## dean_8486

I play fifa 15 alot and have never had any issues. I dont get the backlash of drm, as long as you are not forced to install 3rd party crap like uplay and gfwl who cares. I get the feeling alot of the community who feel so strongly have other reasons...


----------



## Leyaena

It's been said time and time again: There were a bunch of other things wrong with Lords of the Fallen, most of which have been patched and fixed by now. Everyone I asked says it runs just fine now, and is every bit as stable as it should be.

The rumour about the Denuvo DRM being to blame for the performance issues came from someone speculating on a forum, and that post being quoted and reposted as fact. Even the original poster came forward to tell everyone that it was just speculation, and it's been soundly proven that the Denuvo DRM was not to blame for any performance issues Lords of the Fallen might have had on release.

For what it's worth, I played quite a lot of Lords of the Fallen since it released, and I never had any issues with the DRM. I honestly didn't even notice it was there.

If publishers insist on having DRM to counter piracy, I vastly prefer this one over some of the other "solutions" we've seen in the past.
This one doesn't really seem to affect any legitimate customers, and from all accounts it seems like it's doing a very good job keeping its games from being cracked.


----------



## John Shepard

That's kinda worrying.
Hopefully i won't have any performance issues....


----------



## The Source

I would like to see what kind of performance impact this has on lower end systems. Those on this site generally have high end PC's so it will likely go unnoticed even if there is some minor resource hogging.

The more games that use this the more incentive there is for it to be cracked.


----------



## cyanmcleod

It was up for download for 360 days ago, I love they always blame pc when Xbox games are pirated all the time.


----------



## pbvider

DRM or not DRM after all is a EA game so no buy for me.


----------



## Defoler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XAslanX*
> 
> Yes it is a load of nonsense that this unwanted DRM is being forced on us consumers.


I wonder.
Do you have any other way for the developer to prevent his game from being cracked other than using DRM?
And do you prefer DRM or a crack you are not sure does or does not contain malicious program in it which you are unaware of?

Or do you prefer the developer to live peacefully with their game being cracked and played freely, and in turn drop those revenue losses on the legitimate customers by increasing the game price?
Or do you prefer the developer to not develop games because he can't get enough revenue because everyone are not paying the game, but download it illegally because its easy without DRM?

I love people accusing the developers. But have zero response to how they can battle piracy.

Do you like your work used freely after spending a lot of work on it?
Will you go tomorrow to your employee and say "here is half my paycheck, take it back, I don't want it"?


----------



## Digitalwolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Defoler*
> 
> I wonder.
> Do you have any other way for the developer to prevent his game from being cracked other than using DRM?
> And do you prefer DRM or a crack you are not sure does or does not contain malicious program in it which you are unaware of?
> 
> Or do you prefer the developer to live peacefully with their game being cracked and played freely, and in turn drop those revenue losses on the legitimate customers by increasing the game price?
> Or do you prefer the developer to not develop games because he can't get enough revenue because everyone are not paying the game, but download it illegally because its easy without DRM?
> 
> I love people accusing the developers. But have zero response to how they can battle piracy.
> 
> Do you like your work used freely after spending a lot of work on it?
> Will you go tomorrow to your employee and say "here is half my paycheck, take it back, I don't want it"?


Personally I would rather have an "online" component... Think like Steam/Origin or having a license based account like MMO's have. Opposed to any form of extra "stuff" on my computer. Granted I know a lot of people don't want an online solution but... its what *I* would prefer.


----------



## revro

are they really sure they wanna make a DRM that cannot be cracked? I mean if this new one really works longterm, they will lose the excuse "PC = pirates". cause then the only pirates will be the console ones lol


----------



## XAslanX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Defoler*
> 
> I wonder.
> Do you have any other way for the developer to prevent his game from being cracked other than using DRM?
> And do you prefer DRM or a crack you are not sure does or does not contain malicious program in it which you are unaware of?
> 
> Or do you prefer the developer to live peacefully with their game being cracked and played freely, and in turn drop those revenue losses on the legitimate customers by increasing the game price?
> Or do you prefer the developer to not develop games because he can't get enough revenue because everyone are not paying the game, but download it illegally because its easy without DRM?
> 
> I love people accusing the developers. But have zero response to how they can battle piracy.
> 
> Do you like your work used freely after spending a lot of work on it?
> Will you go tomorrow to your employee and say "here is half my paycheck, take it back, I don't want it"?


The CEO of CD Projekt still will not use DRM even though The Witcher 2 was pirated 4.5 million times to 1 million legal copies sold (at the time of interview). Interview here http://www.pcgamer.com/interview-cd-projekts-ceo-on-witcher-2-piracy-why-drms-still-not-worth-it/

He makes a very good point in the interview:
Quote:


> We have seen a lot of different protections, but there are only two ways you can go: Either you use light DRM, which is cracked in no time and is not a major pain for the end-user, or you go the hard way and try to super-protect the game.
> 
> Yes, it is then hard to crack, but you start messing with the operation system, the game runs much slower and - for a group of legal gamers - it will not run at all. None of these solutions really work, so why not abandon it altogether?


If there is enough effort and interest any DRM can be cracked, just depends on the complexity of it.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cyanmcleod*
> 
> It was up for download for 360 days ago, I love they always blame pc when Xbox games are pirated all the time.


you can find upward of 1 million people playing CoD on xbox live up to two weeks before it comes out. been like this since I was an xbox 360 player.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *revro*
> 
> are they really sure they wanna make a DRM that cannot be cracked? I mean if this new one really works longterm, they will lose the excuse "PC = pirates". cause then the only pirates will be the console ones lol


maybe this will rehabilitate all them criminals.


----------



## Alvarez

If you are going to put so-called uncrackable protection, you better give a demo about your game as well. There are many people who pirate games before wasting 60+USD for a crappy product. And no, i dont trust reviewers or early release videos, i need to experience it myself to avoid another Colonial Marines disaster.

I don't trust Electronic Arts due to the failure of Mass Effect 3, Dragon Age 3 and many other titles they screwed up. If they don't put a demo, then it's a dead purchase, i have enough games and very little anyway, i can wait until the Witcher 3 and happily spend money for it.

Apart from this, Ubisoft was saying the same thing for their protection back in the day, all Ubisoft games are being cracked even before actual release. Same goes for Blizzard's SC2 saga.

All games are doomed to be cracked.


----------



## RayvinAzn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Defoler*
> 
> Do you like your work used freely after spending a lot of work on it?
> Will you go tomorrow to your employee and say "here is half my paycheck, take it back, I don't want it"?


I work for tips, and I get stiffed all the time. I'm a card dealer so we're talking about big swings too - big enough that one pay period might only make a quarter as much as the next. Multi-million dollar companies can suck it the hell up and plan ahead for that crap. I don't have a team of analysts letting me know that I'm likely to have a crappy week based on inclement weather, fluctuating stock prices, or last weeks Flying Spaghetti Monster sightnings. I put a little extra away on the good days, and if I have a bad week at the wrong time I might have to take a bit out of savings. When your entire business model is based on potential sales (or in my case, potential tips), you suck it the hell up, plan ahead, and do the best you can to ensure that you minimize your chances for a miss. I don't treat my players like trash because they might be stiffs, and I can think of no reason game companies should go out of their way to treat me like a pirate. Stiffs and pirates exist; they're facts of life. Treating everyone like dirt because they do is a quick way to lose you even more money.


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RayvinAzn*
> 
> I work for tips, and I get stiffed all the time. I'm a card dealer so we're talking about big swings too - big enough that one pay period might only make a quarter as much as the next. Multi-million dollar companies can suck it the hell up and plan ahead for that crap. I don't have a team of analysts letting me know that I'm likely to have a crappy week based on inclement weather, fluctuating stock prices, or last weeks Flying Spaghetti Monster sightnings. I put a little extra away on the good days, and if I have a bad week at the wrong time I might have to take a bit out of savings. When your entire business model is based on potential sales (or in my case, potential tips), you suck it the hell up, plan ahead, and do the best you can to ensure that you minimize your chances for a miss. I don't treat my players like trash because they might be stiffs, and I can think of no reason game companies should go out of their way to treat me like a pirate. Stiffs and pirates exist; they're facts of life. Treating everyone like dirt because they do is a quick way to lose you even more money.


Agreed. When the potential customer is treated as a potential pirate that says a whole lot. If you release a quality product, the sales will come. Release a mediocre or broken product and attach it with drm, gamers will avoid it like the plague. ACU would be a fine example and i'm just mentioning the quality of the release (not familiar with drm in this game).


----------



## Yvese

I get that people don't like DRM since there's been so many that caused issues, but when one actually works like Denuvo I don't see a problem. There are virtually no drawbacks.

You can be anti-drm all you want, but when one actually works and has none of the problems previous solutions had yet you're against it, it just tells me you're either a pirate or close minded. I get that some PC gamers have been conditioned to hate DRM which the industry has themselves to blame, but this is different. If it has not been cracked for months, causes no performance issues, doesn't require you to be online, etc etc.

Where's the problem here? It's not even your traditional 'DRM' - it just prevents the .exe from being tampered with without being intrusive. It's pretty much the DRM that benefits both dev/publisher and customer, something I thought was never possible.


----------



## Ultracarpet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alvarez*
> 
> If you are going to put so-called uncrackable protection, you better give a demo about your game as well. There are many people who pirate games before wasting 60+USD for a crappy product. And no, i dont trust reviewers or early release videos, i need to experience it myself to avoid another Colonial Marines disaster.
> 
> I don't trust Electronic Arts due to the failure of Mass Effect 3, Dragon Age 3 and many other titles they screwed up. If they don't put a demo, then it's a dead purchase, i have enough games and very little anyway, i can wait until the Witcher 3 and happily spend money for it.
> 
> Apart from this, Ubisoft was saying the same thing for their protection back in the day, all Ubisoft games are being cracked even before actual release. Same goes for Blizzard's SC2 saga.
> 
> All games are doomed to be cracked.


Origin has a great game guarantee, if you don't like the game after a day, just get your money back.


----------



## chevymeister

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> Performance-affecting DRM does make me wonder: if it's cracked, could that give _better_ performance with the cracked, illegal version than the official one?
> 
> Because that would really, really suck.


GTA4 comes to mind.

Another game I won't be purchasing....Hello Witcher 3. Was looking forward to this too.


----------



## TK421

So with some research
Quote:


> This comes at the cost of 1-5% performance, as confirmed by the developers in this video http://www.twitch.tv/lotfgame/b/583496891 (skip to 13 minutes)


http://steamcommunity.com/app/265300/discussions/0/613941122641243415/


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> Do you even read/research? This DRM has virtually no draw backs, yet you have already decided to not purchase it.
> 
> It's your money, but if all it takes is a single post to persuade you that this DRM is evil without even researching it, then I'd hate to see you deal with car dealers/salesmen.


There have been issues with the drm, but there is a patch to fix them (according this article). Lords of the Fallen was cracked after a week of launch. I expect Inquistion to be cracked in the same time period. This game is way too anticipated. Good and bad I guess.


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> Do you even read/research? This DRM has virtually no draw backs, yet you have already decided to not purchase it.
> 
> It's your money, but if all it takes is a single post to persuade you that this DRM is evil without even researching it, then I'd hate to see you deal with car dealers/salesmen.
> 
> 
> 
> There have been issues with the drm, but there is a patch to fix them (according this article). Lords of the Fallen was cracked after a week of launch. I expect Inquistion to be cracked in the same time period. This game is way too anticipated. Good and bad I guess.
Click to expand...

Lords has not been cracked and there have not been any official scene releases.


----------



## Hotcarl

Anti tamper measures are hilarious, if you see a whole bunch of people complaining about Dragon Age Inquisition having weird problems, they pirated it


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> Origin has a great game guarantee, if you don't like the game after a day, just get your money back.


EA games only...


----------



## iTurn

Console gaming FTW
















Seriously though they need to think up a strat for DRM, anything that stresses the legit buyers is a fail imo, weren't there cases where Devs would put 'super mobs' in the game when it was pirated?


----------



## HowHardCanItBe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *digiadventures*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *5entinel*
> 
> lol when will these publishers/developers learn that DRM doesn't work and it only robs the choice and hurts those who buy it legitimately. Oh well, their loss.
> 
> 
> 
> Well this new drm seems to work for now, Fifa hasn't been cracked for almost two months now. Since its offline only solution, no need to customers to connect online, I belive it will be cracked eventually. But in the meantime, pirates will get impatient and simply buy dragon age 3.
> Even if it lasts only a month more, it can be considered very successful.
> 
> But we will see I guess how long it lasts
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *5entinel*
> 
> lol when will these publishers/developers learn that DRM doesn't work and it only robs the choice and hurts those who buy it legitimately. Oh well, their loss.
> 
> 
> 
> Performance-affecting DRM does make me wonder: if it's cracked, could that give _better_ performance with the cracked, illegal version than the official one?
> 
> Because that would really, really suck.
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Defoler*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *XAslanX*
> 
> Yes it is a load of nonsense that this unwanted DRM is being forced on us consumers.
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder.
> Do you have any other way for the developer to prevent his game from being cracked other than using DRM?
> And do you prefer DRM or a crack you are not sure does or does not contain malicious program in it which you are unaware of?
> 
> Or do you prefer the developer to live peacefully with their game being cracked and played freely, and in turn drop those revenue losses on the legitimate customers by increasing the game price?
> Or do you prefer the developer to not develop games because he can't get enough revenue because everyone are not paying the game, but download it illegally because its easy without DRM?
> 
> I love people accusing the developers. But have zero response to how they can battle piracy.
> 
> Do you like your work used freely after spending a lot of work on it?
> Will you go tomorrow to your employee and say "here is half my paycheck, take it back, I don't want it"?
Click to expand...

This is wrong because it's an extra layer of protection that's not need. Piracy will always exist no matter how many safeguards you put in place; just like how people commit crimes even though there are severe ramification/penalties in place. You can however, help reduce piracy by building trust with your customers, encouraging people to support your company, giving consumers more for less and giving competitive pricing for your product. Ever notice that people buy more games when there is a massive discount on? Ever wondered why? This is because there are people out there that buy games at different price points. The cheaper your games/product are, the more people will buy. Everyone loves a discount

Nevertheless, there will always be people who want stuff for free because you can't beat free with it comes to competition. You can't prevent that, but that doesn't mean you make legitimate paying customer suffer by enforcing these ridiculous security measures.

And yes there are disadvantages to this form of protection, and that's that games under this model can't be modified, meaning that mods won't be possible, which is one of the strong points of PC gaming. They have also locked down the game under my account which is not what I want.


----------



## AndroidVageta

Well as being one that prefers to try before I buy (especially these days!) this DRM seems like it's going to be a bit of a problem. Shocking really that it's taking this long to crack it...though didn't games like GTA4 have similar issues when they came out?

Speaking of trying before buying...why isn't this something for PC? I mean, if you play on a console you can rent or borrow games all day no problem...but on PC? NOPE! SCREW YOU! BUY IT OF BUG OFF!

That just seems wrong. Sure you could say "rent the game on consoles and then buy PC" but that doesn't tackle questions like performance, optimization, etc on the PC side of things.

Hmm...


----------



## dieanotherday

I think AAA titles should all be $40, $60 is too much.


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndroidVageta*
> 
> Well as being one that prefers to try before I buy (especially these days!) this DRM seems like it's going to be a bit of a problem. Shocking really that it's taking this long to crack it...though didn't games like GTA4 have similar issues when they came out?
> 
> Speaking of trying before buying...why isn't this something for PC? I mean, if you play on a console you can rent or borrow games all day no problem...but on PC? NOPE! SCREW YOU! BUY IT OF BUG OFF!
> 
> That just seems wrong. Sure you could say "rent the game on consoles and then buy PC" but that doesn't tackle questions like performance, optimization, etc on the PC side of things.
> 
> Hmm...


Does anyone remember demos? For this game I believe EA is letting you play the entire game for 6 hours before launch. You just need to become a member. Your saved progress can be transferred over. http://www.ea.com/eaaccess/news.htm


----------



## AndroidVageta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> Does anyone remember demos? For this game I believe EA is letting you play the entire game for 6 hours before launch. You just need to become a member. Your saved progress can be transferred over. http://www.ea.com/eaaccess/news.htm


Last sentence:
Quote:


> Sure you could say "rent the game on consoles and then buy PC" but that doesn't tackle questions like performance, optimization, etc on the PC side of things.


----------



## -iceblade^

Honestly, getting a PS4 for $400 with The Last of Us and GTA V on Black Friday is starting to look all the more tempting... It's like we get treated like thieves, and of course most of the time the DRM doesn't even work.


----------



## azanimefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zalbard*
> 
> I am yet to see any proof of this DRM affecting performance in a noticeable way. What a load of nonsense.


Well Ubisoft's AC:Unity apparently has DRM that affects performance pretty seriously.


----------



## biz1

why can't they just use proper DRM and run parts of the game code on servers

this offline crap tends to be problematic and is not uncrackable like server-side code

lazy devs. probably just threw their exe at denuvo or whatever and told them to wrap some DRM around it


----------



## sepiashimmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dieanotherday*
> 
> I think AAA titles should all be $40, $60 is too much.


In India, computer hardware may cost approximately $20-50 more than in US but prices of original games in India are less than what they are in US. For example, presently the PC version of Assassin's Creed: Unity is approximately $30 in India, the console version cost the same $60. But for many Indians, even $30 is a lot of money.


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-iceblade^*
> 
> Honestly, getting a PS4 for $400 with The Last of Us and GTA V on Black Friday is starting to look all the more tempting... It's like we get treated like thieves, and of course most of the time the DRM doesn't even work.


It does work. Also, most PC gamers are thieves. Go look up torrent sites of popular titles and tell me how many downloads they have. If a game isn't mainly multiplayer and you aren't a well known/popular/accepted dev, your game will be at the top of pirate sites. Heck, even if you are that kind of dev, it still gets pirated as seen by The Witcher 2.

I have my fair share of issues with certain DRM, but this one is different. Heck, I'd put it in its own category and give it its own name other than DRM since those 3 letters are so tainted that just uttering it in a sentence makes people jump to conclusions as seen by this thread.

Again, Fifa 15 and Lords of the Fallen use this DRM and have NOT been cracked. Anyone that says otherwise is lying. None of the big pirate groups have released a crack, and any that are floating around is fake and filled with malware.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *biz1*
> 
> why can't they just use proper DRM and run parts of the game code on servers
> 
> this offline crap tends to be problematic and is not uncrackable like server-side code
> 
> lazy devs. probably just threw their exe at denuvo or whatever and told them to wrap some DRM around it


Oh so you want the game to always be online? One of the main things people complain about here? Lol okay.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moragg*
> 
> Performance-affecting DRM does make me wonder: if it's cracked, could that give _better_ performance with the cracked, illegal version than the official one?
> 
> Because that would really, really suck.


Not likely, they have to break stuff with cracks which makes the program typically more unstable.


----------



## AndroidVageta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *biz1*
> 
> why can't they just use proper DRM and run parts of the game code on servers
> 
> this offline crap tends to be problematic and is not uncrackable like server-side code
> 
> lazy devs. probably just threw their exe at denuvo or whatever and told them to wrap some DRM around it


Do you work for a DRM company or something? Why would you even say any of that? You want MORE issues and problems with DRM I see...







I mean, what the hell man?


----------



## AndroidVageta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> It does work. Also, most PC gamers are thieves...


Where are you getting this information? I want to see some facts here.

Quote:


> Oh so you want the game to always be online? One of the main things people complain about here? Lol okay.


Why do you have a problem with that? You seem to think most PC gamers are pirates anyways!


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndroidVageta*
> 
> Do you work for Ubisoft? Where are you getting this information? I want to see some facts here.
> Why do you have a problem with that? You seem to think most PC gamers are pirates anyways!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sheesh..


Not hard to check torrent sites and see how many are downloaded. Or go to certain file sharing forums. If you can't search for yourself, I wont do it for you since it's against the rules.

And no, I don't have a problem with online DRM. I'm always online so it doesn't affect me. I can see why others don't like it as they may not be as fortunate. Also notice I said "one of the main things people complain about *here*".









Sheesh..


----------



## kael13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> Not hard to check torrent sites and see how many are downloaded. Or go to certain file sharing forums. If you can't search for yourself, I wont do it for you since it's against the rules.
> 
> And no, I don't have a problem with online DRM. I'm always online so it doesn't affect me. I can see why others don't like it as they may not be as fortunate. Also notice I said "one of the main things people complain about *here*".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sheesh..


Lol yeah... Or maybe look at Valve and the bucket loads of money they make through the Steam store. Legitimate PC gamers far outnumber the pirates.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> Not hard to check torrent sites and see how many are downloaded. Or go to certain file sharing forums. If you can't search for yourself, I wont do it for you since it's against the rules.
> 
> And no, I don't have a problem with online DRM. I'm always online so it doesn't affect me. I can see why others don't like it as they may not be as fortunate. Also notice I said "one of the main things people complain about *here*".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sheesh..


You clearly dont know how statistics work if you think that indicates 50% of pc gamers pirate.
I'd be more inclined to agree that 50% of pc gamers have pirated a game at one point or another, not that 50% of pc gamers are currently pirating.


----------



## Achromatis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XAslanX*
> 
> So not only do you have to deal with the spyware that is Origin, but also performance affecting secondary DRM? As if I need another reason not to buy EA games, this just stacks on top of the pile.


How is it performance affecting? I have not played any games with this Denuvo so I wouldn't know.


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> You clearly dont know how statistics work if you think that indicates 50% of pc gamers pirate.
> I'd be more inclined to agree that 50% of pc gamers have pirated a game at one point or another, not that 50% of pc gamers are currently pirating.


Where did you get this 50% number? I never gave a number. There is no way to tell, HOWEVER, I used The WItcher 2 as an example in a previous post.

Here's an interesting article - The Witcher 2 was pirated 4.5 million times. CDP said the numbers are likely worse. Those are numbers directly from CDP themselves. Sales-wise, The Witcher 2 sold 940k copies by Auguest 2011. The article is in November so we can assume they sold at least 100k inbetween. So that's 4-5 times the pirated copies compared to actual sales. Even if we subtract 940k from the 4.5 million as an argument that pirates download a game before buying, that still leaves more than 3 million pirated copies compared to sales.

These are really the only confirmed #'s we can get as I can't find anybody else giving pirated/sales statistics like CDP did for TW2. This is for a popular title and gives you an idea of just how rampant piracy is on PC. Skyrim is likely A LOT worse. Yes, Skyrim sold more, but that also means it was pirated more.

Point is, there are more pirates than legit buyers on PC.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kael13*
> 
> Lol yeah... Or maybe look at Valve and the bucket loads of money they make through the Steam store. Legitimate PC gamers far outnumber the pirates.


So because they're making loads of money through the steam store it suddenly means legit PC gamers far outnumber pirates? Nobody has exact numbers. I could show you torrent and file sharing sites with # of downloads for each game, it wouldn't matter. All we have to go by is peak player count on STEAM. We will never get sales #'s so the point is moot. I can, however, say that pirates out number legit PC gamers. Sorry, but the west is not the only people on this planet.


----------



## 970Rules

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Achromatis*
> 
> How is it performance affecting?


It's always using your hardware 'cpu" resources.
And sense majority of idiots who are for DRM are short sighted in brain use, they end up putting drm in first Main cpu thread the game running
and first cpu thread of game always heavy used more. AKA there stealing cpu time for there damn DRM on already heavy used thread.

In short it's OUR hardware, No dev has the right to put DRM in our comps period. it's not needed, all it does is steal our CPU resources , and to top it all off, the very thing DRM designed to stop, bit torrented copy, it fails to do so vast majority of the time.

They do it for there own greedy gain only , while paying costumers are the only ones suffering

So when they force there malware into our comps, damn right we be upset.


----------



## HowHardCanItBe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> You clearly dont know how statistics work if you think that indicates 50% of pc gamers pirate.
> I'd be more inclined to agree that 50% of pc gamers have pirated a game at one point or another, not that 50% of pc gamers are currently pirating.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you get this 50% number? I never gave a number. There is no way to tell, HOWEVER, I used The WItcher 2 as an example in a previous post.
> 
> Here's an interesting article - The Witcher 2 was pirated 4.5 million times. CDP said the numbers are likely worse. Those are numbers directly from CDP themselves. Sales-wise, The Witcher 2 sold 940k copies by Auguest 2011. The article is in November so we can assume they sold at least 100k inbetween. So that's 4-5 times the pirated copies compared to actual sales. Even if we subtract 940k from the 4.5 million as an argument that pirates download a game before buying, that still leaves more than 3 million pirated copies compared to sales.
> 
> These are really the only confirmed #'s we can get as I can't find anybody else giving pirated/sales statistics like CDP did for TW2. This is for a popular title and gives you an idea of just how rampant piracy is on PC. Skyrim is likely A LOT worse. Yes, Skyrim sold more, but that also means it was pirated more.
> 
> Point is, there are more pirates than legit buyers on PC.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kael13*
> 
> Lol yeah... Or maybe look at Valve and the bucket loads of money they make through the Steam store. Legitimate PC gamers far outnumber the pirates.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So because they're making loads of money through the steam store it suddenly means legit PC gamers far outnumber pirates? Nobody has exact numbers. I could show you torrent and file sharing sites with # of downloads for each game, it wouldn't matter. All we have to go by is peak player count on STEAM. We will never get sales #'s so the point is moot. I can, however, say that pirates out number legit PC gamers. Sorry, but the west is not the only people on this planet.
Click to expand...

No one denying that piracy is a problem, but it's a service/pricing problem. As mentioned above, you can't beat free, but you can compete with a competitive pricing scheme. There are different number of customers at different price point.You can bet that there are more people buying games that have a huge discount at 75% then at say 0% Those with the adequate purchasing power will buy it at full price, but there are those who are less fortunate to afford paying 60 dollars will wait for a price cut.

There is no denying the the witcher franchise has been pirated, but it has also sold well; which is why we have managed to get 3 installments of tthe game already and the PC is still the lead platform. If the game had sold poorly, we wouldn't have seen ithe parent company stay afloat, and to this day it still sells; even on the GOG site it's still selling as well as steam


----------



## DMHernandez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *biz1*
> 
> why can't they just use proper DRM and run parts of the game code on servers
> 
> this offline crap tends to be problematic and is not uncrackable like server-side code
> 
> lazy devs. probably just threw their exe at denuvo or whatever and told them to wrap some DRM around it


You weren't around for the diablo 3 launch, were you? Or when MS announced their 24-hour online checkin bit...
Always online on single player / offline games never EVER ends well for the publisher.


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *5entinel*
> 
> No one denying that piracy is a problem, but it's a service/pricing problem. As mentioned above, you can't beat free, but you can compete with a competitive pricing scheme. There are different number of audience at different price points because each of those price points has different audiences who have various purchasing powers. You can bet that there are more people buying games that have a huge discount at 75% then at say 0% Those with the adequate purchasing power will buy it at full price, but there are those who are less fortunate to afford paying 60 dollars will wait for a price cut.
> 
> There is no denying the the witcher franchise has been pirated, but it's also sold well; which is why we have managed to get 3 installments of tthe game already and the PC is still the lead platform. If the game had sold poorly, we wouldn't have seen ithe parent company stay afloat, and to this day still sells; even on the GOG site it's still selling as well as steam


Service/pricing is certainly a big part of it. I still don't understand why digital games are priced the same as retail. They should all be $29.99 - 49.99 based on amount of hours you can get, with retail being $39.99 - 59.99 to make up for costs of it being physical.

Speaking of The Witcher series, I think CDP have good service/pricing for TW3 - 10% off for everyone, with an additional 5% if/for each previous game you own. They also include goodies like the sound track, artwork, etc. They even offer a DRM free version. Unfortunately CDP is only one company. Only time will tell how successful this approach is but it's certainly a step in the right direction and is one I wish more companies did - reward customers for owning previous games. Like I said before though, I wish it was $49.99 for digital. Not that it matters to me though since I already have the collector's edition pre-ordered









Going back to this DRM though - I don't see much problems with it. It doesn't have the negatives of past DRMs ( online, securom, etc ), and it still has not been cracked. I'm sure it will be eventually, but you can't fault companies for taking advantage of it. If the DRM stays uncracked after Inquisition though, you can be sure more games will use it.


----------



## fashric

This Denuvo seems likes it works in a very similar way to Starforce. Which is bad news for pirates as I remember Splinter Cell Chaos Theory went uncracked for well over a year. I'm sure any of the big players would be delighted with their latest games staying out of reach for a fraction of that time. DRM is a very difficult subject and its easy to see good points on both sides of the argument. Personally as long as the DRM doesn't majorly inconvenience me I have no issue with it but when it starts to cause potential performance problems I definitely wouldn't be buying the game with that protection. I play a lot of Fifa 15 and have noticed no performance issues at all obviously its not the most taxing of games anyway so not really a good measurement of how much effect this Denuvo really has on performance. Just a case of wait and see.


----------



## amtbr

Whats amusing about this thread is that most of the arguments are based around the assumption that this DRM is harmful or performance impacting. When nothing has been conclusively proven. I get the knee jerk reaction to DRM, but lets face it, most of you guys LOVE DRM aka Steam. When Steam does DRM its OK, because Steam can do no wrong. When others try to protect their IP, suddenly "Its time to buy a PS4." Suddenly you feel like a thief? Give me a break. Fatalistic arguments galore in this thread.

Its a simple solution, don't buy the games.


----------



## Raghar

Considering Denuvo is exe protector, and exe protectors require quite a lot of CPU cycles to work. It's easy to see why people who are paying for games are complaining.

I don't care, I either get it as a gift, or as a free promo because I found I don't enjoy game I paid for. But, actually it affect me as well. I can get stuff with Denuvo as a free weekend promo, as a gift from unknowing relatives/friends, or as a free promo. I wouldn't install crap like Denuvo on my PC. I lost 3+ DVDs on Starforce, and I have much stricter security requirements for my PC, Denuvo violates them.

OK Denuvo is problem. And product with Denuvo shouldn't be considered fit for merchantability.


----------



## SpykeZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XAslanX*
> 
> Yes it is a load of nonsense that this unwanted DRM is being forced on us consumers.


No body is forcing anything on anyone. When are people going to understand if you want DRM to go away, you simply stop buying games from the publisher. Period. Don't do the half idiotic "oh but I like this franchise I'll buy it" crap either. No money to EA, ever again, till they get it straight. People boycotted the hell out of UBI back when they were adamant about using Starforce. Guess what happened....THEY STOPPED USING IT.


----------



## deraco96

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> Where did you get this 50% number? I never gave a number. There is no way to tell, HOWEVER, I used The WItcher 2 as an example in a previous post.
> 
> Here's an interesting article - The Witcher 2 was pirated 4.5 million times. CDP said the numbers are likely worse. Those are numbers directly from CDP themselves. Sales-wise, The Witcher 2 sold 940k copies by Auguest 2011. The article is in November so we can assume they sold at least 100k inbetween. So that's 4-5 times the pirated copies compared to actual sales. Even if we subtract 940k from the 4.5 million as an argument that pirates download a game before buying, that still leaves more than 3 million pirated copies compared to sales.
> 
> These are really the only confirmed #'s we can get as I can't find anybody else giving pirated/sales statistics like CDP did for TW2. This is for a popular title and gives you an idea of just how rampant piracy is on PC. Skyrim is likely A LOT worse. Yes, Skyrim sold more, but that also means it was pirated more.
> 
> Point is, there are more pirates than legit buyers on PC.
> So because they're making loads of money through the steam store it suddenly means legit PC gamers far outnumber pirates? Nobody has exact numbers. I could show you torrent and file sharing sites with # of downloads for each game, it wouldn't matter. All we have to go by is peak player count on STEAM. We will never get sales #'s so the point is moot. I can, however, say that pirates out number legit PC gamers. Sorry, but the west is not the only people on this planet.


Sure, but

1) Gamers may pirate a copy of Witcher 2 before they buy, or buy later, in which case it didn't matter they pirated
2) Pirates may need to download the game again if they want to install on a new system etc, while buyers do not need to buy again
3) Pirated copies may never be booted up, in which case it doesn't count imo.

I think, even with the numbers available, 50/50 would still be a good bet. I believe that in the end, only a small part does not buy a game when: 1) they have enough money to afford a legit copy 2) they really like the game.

Denuvo actually sounds like it is pretty good at what it does. I do hope it does not get in the way of possible mod support though.


----------



## Leopard2lx

*Most* people that pirate are people that would not but the game anyway, whether it's a financial problem or they just don't like the game enough to buy it, so I don't think the companies should see game piracy as a 100% loss of money because these people would probably not buy it anyway. Sure it's still not fair for them to take advantage of a product they haven't paid for, but still.... I grew up in Eastern Europe where people can't afford things as much as people in the West and everyone would pirate. I hardly had any friends that would buy games or software...ever. Now that I live in the US, I buy the games I'm interested in because I can afford it and want to support the companies that I believe deserve it. (Not you, Ubisoft!)

With that said, I'm not really against DRM, as long as it doesn't create "side effects" like bad game performance or installing all kinds of crap on my system or needs internet connection.


----------



## HMBR

well, I'm not happy about this, but I can understand... Denuvo seems to work extremely well, look at Fifa 15 (extremely popular and pirated series outside of the US) and lords of the fallen (popular title still not pirated)... performance loss is probably minimal, so it's natural to adopt it for other titles, even if 95% of the pirate users would not buy it anyway, whatever they gain (these 5%) are a little more profit they make and probably pay for the DRM...

I think this is a tough one, I wouldn't be surprised if it take years to break this DRM.

so if you want to play DAI, you have to pay the absurd prices right now, wait for sales in 6 months+... oh well, and you can pirate it on the Xbox 360 and PS3 if you have a hacked console.

also I think Denuvo is not to annoying for paying customers, it seems to be invisible,
I've seen far worse DRM methods that didn't work as well to protect against piracy, just to make the paying customers experience worse, this doesn't seem to be the case here.


----------



## tsm106

^^Ah... Mordor was cracked and released on the scene before it released retail lol.


----------



## Clocknut

when I wanted to buy a game I usually go these route.

Check reviews -> check youtube = if I still not convince, I will check for demo, if I cant find demo = I pirate it & decide if I want to buy the game or not.

I can bought a shirt from retail store, I got to try it b4 I buy.
Car can be test drive b4 i buy.
there are demo unit TV b4 i buy.

I dont get why some games/ software have no demos.


----------



## HMBR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> ^^Ah... Mordor was cracked and released on the scene before it released retail lol.


sorry I confused with another game (lords of the fallen) shadow of mordor didn't use Denuvo, that's why it was cracked.


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clocknut*
> 
> when I wanted to buy a game I usually go these route.
> 
> Check reviews -> check youtube = if I still not convince, I will check for demo, if I cant find demo = I pirate it & decide if I want to buy the game or not.
> 
> I can bought a shirt from retail store, I got to try it b4 I buy.
> Car can be test drive b4 i buy.
> there are demo unit TV b4 i buy.
> 
> I dont get why some games/ software have no demos.


I don't know why demos aren't offered for 99.9% of games either, but I can say that there's a difference between test driving a car/clothes/whatever, and pirating a game to test it - one is insured, the other is not. Physical items can always be replaced if broken/stolen. Games can not since they aren't physical. Retail games are just a disc and a booklet, extras if it's a collectors edition but the game itself has no physical form.

This certainly would be solved if all devs offered a small demo, but I think we're at the point where publishers care more about reaching a sales target than building goodwill with gamers. As seen by Unity, if they offered a demo they would have lost SO MANY sales. It sucks but that's business for you..


----------



## HMBR

some games have demos, I tested Evil Within demo on steam recently.
also Fifa 15 (the biggest "Denuvo" title)


----------



## chevymeister

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> This DRM has virtually no draw backs, yet you have already decided to not purchase it.
> 
> It's your money, but if all it takes is a single post to persuade you that this DRM is evil without even researching it, then I'd hate to see you deal with car dealers/salesmen.


DRM is evil by nature. Researching it or not, why should I be punished for purchasing their game? The concept of DRM is flawed. I've heard it was cracked anyway, even if it isn't (which I don't care) it will be eventually. This DRM also has drawbacks, I see you haven't done your research on it. You can enjoy your DRM infested games. I'll save my money and do more productive things than play games until a developer worth a damn comes along like CDPR.


----------



## XAslanX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chevymeister*
> 
> DRM is evil by nature. Researching it or not, why should I be punished for purchasing their game? The concept of DRM is flawed. I've heard it was cracked anyway, even if it isn't (which I don't care) it will be eventually. This DRM also has drawbacks, I see you haven't done your research on it. You can enjoy your DRM infested games. *I'll save my money and do more productive things than play games until a developer worth a damn comes along like CDPR.
> *
> By the way, starting your argument with an insult does nothing to prove your point.


Preach it man, and I to enjoy spending the money I save by not buying these DRM locked nickle and diming DLC/season pass games on more productive things in life that are worth my time and investment.


----------



## Shpongle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iTurn*
> 
> Console gaming FTW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously though they need to think up a strat for DRM, anything that stresses the legit buyers is a fail imo, weren't there cases where Devs would put 'super mobs' in the game when it was pirated?


There sure were, and they were hilarious. Crysis: Warhead had chicken bullets and Serious Sam 3: BFE had the invincible mini pink scorpion and at another point forced the player to spin around while looking straight up.

I'm sure there are more but those were the only ones I could think of off the top of my head.


----------



## Mopar63

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chevymeister*
> 
> DRM is evil by nature. Researching it or not, why should I be punished for purchasing their game?


I love this excuse that DRMs somehow hurt the consumer. I have not had a DRM be an issue on ANY game for so long I do not recall the last one that had an issue. DRMs are not about punishing you for buying the game but rather protecting the publisher from thieves, I mean if it causes an issue in the game play then it should be removed or fixed, but if not who cares. I mean do you complain that the bank has locks? That cars need keys?

If the DRM is not making the game bad then there is nothing wrong with them doing it. Hell most games today use STEAM as a DRM. Extra DRM is a none issue if it does not effect the game play of the game I legally bought.

The whole demo thing is a separate issue and I agree every game should have a demo.


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chevymeister*
> 
> DRM is evil by nature. Researching it or not, why should I be punished for purchasing their game? The concept of DRM is flawed. I've heard it was cracked anyway, even if it isn't (which I don't care) it will be eventually. This DRM also has drawbacks, I see you haven't done your research on it. You can enjoy your DRM infested games. I'll save my money and do more productive things than play games until a developer worth a damn comes along like CDPR.
> 
> By the way, starting your argument with an insult does nothing to prove your point.


How are you being punished? What is this particular DRM doing to punish you? And yes, I know it has drawbacks. Nothing close to previous DRMs though that require you to be online or things like Securom.

Also, how is the concept of protecting your product flawed? Yes, the IMPLEMENTATION in past DRMs were flawed. But the concept of DRM itself?

The biggest issue here is Denuvo shouldn't be called a DRM. Just being associated with those 3 letters is taboo as seen by this thread. Past implementations have tainted it, and any attempts to make it better will be met with resistance ( again, as seen by this thread ). Thus I propose a new acronym be created so we can start fresh


----------



## XAslanX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> How are you being punished? What is this particular DRM doing to punish you? And yes, I know it has drawbacks. Nothing close to previous DRMs though that require you to be online or things like Securom.
> 
> Also, how is the concept of protecting your product flawed? Yes, the IMPLEMENTATION in past DRMs were flawed. But the concept of DRM itself?
> 
> The biggest issue here is Denuvo shouldn't be called a DRM. Just being associated with those 3 letters is taboo as seen by this thread. Past implementations have tainted it, and any attempts to make it better will be met with resistance ( again, as seen by this thread ). Thus I propose a new acronym be created so we can start fresh


I have been punished by DRM with the Mass Effect install limit which I can no longer use and refuse to buy another copy because I should not have to buy a game twice, EVER. I have also been punished with Crysis Warhead on steam, I reinstalled it one day and it said I had reached the maximum amount of activations. I contacted EA to ask for more and the only thing they offered to do for me is a 15% off coupon for another copy. And now a I have an unplayable copy of Warhead sitting on my steam list mocking me at the $30 I threw away on it. So yes I have been burned by DRM as a legitimate customer and strongly against it.


----------



## Clocknut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chevymeister*
> 
> DRM is evil by nature. Researching it or not, why should I be punished for purchasing their game? The concept of DRM is flawed. I've heard it was cracked anyway, even if it isn't (which I don't care) it will be eventually. This DRM also has drawbacks, I see you haven't done your research on it. You can enjoy your DRM infested games. I'll save my money and do more productive things than play games until a developer worth a damn comes along like CDPR.
> 
> By the way, starting your argument with an insult does nothing to prove your point.


exactly the example I given in my previous post is one of the reason why piracy exist. Piracy is a service/pricing problem.

too bad many software developer fail to see this problem. Adding a DRM to stop piracy are just going to get some legit owner to pirate it. This is not going to stop.

I had a lot of fren who were once pirate until I introduce them steam. Valve has proven that service & a reasonable can reduce piracy.


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XAslanX*
> 
> I have been punished by DRM with the Mass Effect install limit which I can no longer use and refuse to buy another copy because I should not have to buy a game twice, EVER. I have also been punished with Crysis Warhead on steam, I reinstalled it one day and it said I had reached the maximum amount of activations. I contacted EA to ask for more and the only thing they offered to do for me is a 15% off coupon for another copy. And now a I have an unplayable copy of Warhead sitting on my steam list mocking me at the $30 I threw away on it. So yes I have been burned by DRM as a legitimate customer and strongly against it.


Those were past implementations though. This particular DRM does not have those issues and seems to be implemented well.

TBH, this should be called ATS for Anti-Tamper solution as they call it on their site and not DRM,


----------



## AndroidVageta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> Those were past implementations though. This particular DRM does not have those issues and seems to be implemented well.
> 
> TBH, this should be called ATS for Anti-Tamper solution as they call it on their site and not DRM,


Changing the name doesn't change what it is. If I call a pile of dog poop "Falala Dream Cream™" that doesn't make it any less crappy.


----------



## HowHardCanItBe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mopar63*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *chevymeister*
> 
> DRM is evil by nature. Researching it or not, why should I be punished for purchasing their game?
> 
> 
> 
> I love this excuse that DRMs somehow hurt the consumer. I have not had a DRM be an issue on ANY game for so long I do not recall the last one that had an issue. DRMs are not about punishing you for buying the game but rather protecting the publisher from thieves, I mean if it causes an issue in the game play then it should be removed or fixed, but if not who cares. I mean do you complain that the bank has locks? That cars need keys?
> 
> If the DRM is not making the game bad then there is nothing wrong with them doing it. Hell most games today use STEAM as a DRM. Extra DRM is a none issue if it does not effect the game play of the game I legally bought.
> 
> The whole demo thing is a separate issue and I agree every game should have a demo.
Click to expand...

Uplay/starforce/secure-rom(malware)/putting restriction on the number times I can install a game...Simicty/Diablo 3....Need I go on? DRM has proven to rob consumers of their basic consumer rights and hurt them severely, but some people are apparently okay with this which I don't understand why? If anything putting drm in a system actually means locking down the game to your account which is wrong. The people who pirated the game get to play without the inconvenience that DRM brings. I for one like to be given the choice to do whatever I want with it. Anything after I do after I have made the purchase is none of the publisher's/developer's damn business. We don't see this when consoles rent a game or buy a game second hand, so why should we have our games locked? Just my 2 cents
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amtbr*
> 
> Whats amusing about this thread is that most of the arguments are based around the assumption that this DRM is harmful or performance impacting. When nothing has been conclusively proven. I get the knee jerk reaction to DRM, but lets face it, most of you guys LOVE DRM aka Steam. When Steam does DRM its OK, because Steam can do no wrong. When others try to protect their IP, suddenly "Its time to buy a PS4." Suddenly you feel like a thief? Give me a break. Fatalistic arguments galore in this thread.
> 
> Its a simple solution, don't buy the games.


We all know steam is a form of DRM, and not all of us are a fan of it me including. Most of the games I have on steam I have gotten gifted.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> Service/pricing is certainly a big part of it. I still don't understand why digital games are priced the same as retail. They should all be $29.99 - 49.99 based on amount of hours you can get, with retail being $39.99 - 59.99 to make up for costs of it being physical.


Digital games also have less overheads and by buying digital, you also give back the developer a greater profit margin, but that like I said, it's down to pricing a problem and I personally would like the ability to resell digital games, but we let that one slip because a few people think that idea is ridiculous.
Quote:


> Speaking of The Witcher series, I think CDP have good service/pricing for TW3 - 10% off for everyone, with an additional 5% if/for each previous game you own. They also include goodies like the sound track, artwork, etc. They even offer a DRM free version. Unfortunately CDP is only one company. Only time will tell how successful this approach is but it's certainly a step in the right direction and is one I wish more companies did - reward customers for owning previous games. Like I said before though, I wish it was $49.99 for digital. Not that it matters to me though since I already have the collector's edition pre-ordered


So you agree that DRM is bad?







.
Quote:


> Going back to this DRM though - I don't see much problems with it. It doesn't have the negatives of past DRMs ( online, securom, etc ), and it still has not been cracked. I'm sure it will be eventually, but you can't fault companies for taking advantage of it. If the DRM stays uncracked after Inquisition though, you can be sure more games will use it.


Negatives are NOT in the past. Uplay still stinks, the whole diablo 3 fiasco then there was sim city nonsense....Need I go on?


----------



## villain

Denuvo isn't a DRM solution. Its purpose is to stop people from bypassing DRM like Steam or Origin. The goal is to stop piracy "in the crucial first weeks of a title's release". They have had great success so far and if they can keep it up we will see this kind of protection in many more games.

As a consumer I'm worried about privacy and performance drawbacks. There are MMOs that come with intrusive rootkits that monitor your entire system. According to this, Denuvo is a part of the game's executable and nothing extra is installed. It prevents modifications of the executable, but mods that change the game files are still possible. It might put some extra load on the CPU, but I think it won't be a big deal.


----------



## tsm106

There's a couple games on Origin that I still cannot play legitimately even though I own them, lol. Hell even EA's CS team cannot bypass or reset their own stupid DRM. I've wasted hours on numerous occasions, and they still cannot fix it. What to do? I cracked them, my own games lol. They put these stupid install limits in the DRM so it locks after X installs and you have to contact them to reset it. It's really annoying obviously.


----------



## AgnewFedaykin

Am I the only one who thinks crackers are gonna wait for an actual AAA release such as GTA V to release any crack for this? I have a feeling this silence on these new games with this DRM is a false sense of security for them.


----------



## Fickle Pickle

So long as it doesn't affect the end user experience, I don't care.


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fickle Pickle*
> 
> So long as it doesn't affect the end user experience, I don't care.


Well you're not very fickle at all.


----------



## umeng2002

The way I see it, all DRM is eventually cracked. Because of this, it only causes issues for people who give their money to devs. The solution? game demos. Patch and update game demos too. Demos for all games.


----------



## Fickle Pickle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock999*
> 
> Well you're not very fickle at all.


Well now I care...wait no I don't...but maybe?


----------



## biz1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndroidVageta*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *biz1*
> 
> why can't they just use proper DRM and run parts of the game code on servers
> 
> this offline crap tends to be problematic and is not uncrackable like server-side code
> 
> lazy devs. probably just threw their exe at denuvo or whatever and told them to wrap some DRM around it
> 
> 
> 
> Do you work for a DRM company or something? Why would you even say any of that? You want MORE issues and problems with DRM I see...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean, what the hell man?
Click to expand...

i'd rather have a game that requires internet access than some random stuff slowing down my PC, not letting people mod software, and doing who knows what else

this offline stuff is going to get cracked anyways. if they want DRM they might as well do it right instead of being lazy


----------



## dave12

I support EA/Bioware in their effort to ruin the gaming experience that they create with intrusive DRM. Anything these guys and Ubisoft do to help me remember to not give them my money is a blessing.


----------



## AndroidVageta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *biz1*
> 
> i'd rather have a game that requires internet


Why?
Quote:


> than some random stuff slowing down my PC, not letting people mod software, and doing who knows what else


So DRM which is what you just said you'd rather have?
Quote:


> this offline stuff is going to get cracked anyways. if they want DRM they might as well do it right instead of being lazy


Of course it'll get cracked and they should just not put DRM into anything to begin with.


----------



## ironhide138

....Am I the only one who doesnt really care? Game looks great


----------



## Defoler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *5entinel*
> 
> This is wrong because it's an extra layer of protection that's not need. Piracy will always exist no matter how many safeguards you put in place; just like how people commit crimes even though there are severe ramification/penalties in place. You can however, help reduce piracy by building trust with your customers, encouraging people to support your company, giving consumers more for less and giving competitive pricing for your product. Ever notice that people buy more games when there is a massive discount on? Ever wondered why? This is because there are people out there that buy games at different price points. The cheaper your games/product are, the more people will buy. Everyone loves a discount
> 
> Nevertheless, there will always be people who want stuff for free because you can't beat free with it comes to competition. You can't prevent that, but that doesn't mean you make legitimate paying customer suffer by enforcing these ridiculous security measures.
> 
> And yes there are disadvantages to this form of protection, and that's that games under this model can't be modified, meaning that mods won't be possible, which is one of the strong points of PC gaming. They have also locked down the game under my account which is not what I want.


And why is it not needed? Because pirates be pirates? This is the lamest excuse I have heard.

If piracy is absolute, and a DRM which so far have not been cracked prevent it, than isn't it the right path for them?
Pirates will be pirates, you put a wall which they can't go though, pirates don't bother you, pirates stop being pirates, you win. Isn't it the best outcome?

If someone wants the game for free, he doesn't pay the developer. So the developer has no reason to care about him. And people who say "well I pirate the game and if I like it I will buy it" is the bigges lie there is. So if someone really wants to the game, and now he has to pay no matter what, its great for the developer. He gets the money, give support to that person when needed, both side win.
You will not expect to get your car for free and than go to the dealership and demand repairs under warranty, right?

The fact that there will always be people who pirate does not mean there is no reason not to try and prevent it from happening. On the same page, you should leave your house wide open, because there are burglerers, so if they exist, than might as well give in and not lock your doors and let everyone win. Might as well even give all your stuff away for free no?

And regarding mobs, this is the full developer's choice. He decided if its ok or not. Not you. The same as a painter decide that his painting is this way and you can't decided otherwise. The same as a photographer takes a picture and you are by law not allowed to make any changes to it even if you think that instagram old age filter will be absolutely adorable on it.
Some developers are ok with it. Others are not. You can not force your wishes on the developer just because you want it so. The same as you can't go to a car manufacturer and tell them "I want this car to be 5 inches shorter" Just because it doesn't enter your driveway.


----------



## Adglu

This is from RPGcodex forums
Quote:


> "Resource monitors for RAM and CPU consumption numbers, memory viewer for trying to figure out what makes it tick and track address issues, SSD analysis tools for those delicious dead blocks and data tracking
> Wanna know average number of times parts of LotF exe code are stuffed around between RAM and HDD in the span of one hour? 150000 copy/write iterations. That's about 10000 times more than usual. DRM constantly decrypts the game code into the memory and encrypts it back. This is the most bullcrap usage of encryption software I've ever stumbled upon. And even though code chunks are quite small(couple of kilobytes per go at worst), they are all stored in one memory block. And playing the game for 4-8 hours(depends on SSD quality) means that you can say goodbye to that block."


----------



## dave12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Defoler*
> 
> If someone wants the game for free, he doesn't pay the developer. So the developer has no reason to care about him. And people who say "well I pirate the game and if I like it I will buy it" is the bigges lie there is. So if someone really wants to the game, and now he has to pay no matter what, its great for the developer. He gets the money, give support to that person when needed, both side win.
> You will not expect to get your car for free and than go to the dealership and demand repairs under warranty, right?


I dunno what this is in response to but the logic is flawed. I don't pirate anything and I don't support piracy in anyway. If my Mercedes needed to call the dealership to let the car start every time I turned the key or required a constant GPS signal to operate I would say that it was bullcrap and if I wanted to deal with this kind of bullcrap I would just get an OVI and have the authorities put these kind of restrictions on me. Not the guy I just paid to build me a convenience/recreational item.


----------



## XAslanX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adglu*
> 
> This is from RPGcodex forums
> 
> Quote:
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> "Resource monitors for RAM and CPU consumption numbers, memory viewer for trying to figure out what makes it tick and track address issues, SSD analysis tools for those delicious dead blocks and data tracking
> Wanna know average number of times parts of LotF exe code are tossed around between RAM and HDD in the span of one hour? 150000 copy/write iterations. That's about 10000 times more than usual. DRM constantly decrypts the game code into the memory and encrypts it back. This is the most bullcrap usage of encryption software I've ever stumbled upon. And even though code chunks are quite small(couple of kilobytes per go at worst), they are all stored in one memory block. And playing the game for 4-8 hours(depends on SSD quality) means that you can say goodbye to that block."
Click to expand...

Ah so it's worse than secure rom as it literally kills your SSD blocks unnecessarily faster than normal. Unless they plan on reimbursing customers for the excessive wear on their SSD's, I don't see this lasting long.


----------



## daviejams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XAslanX*
> 
> Ah so it's worse than secure rom as it literally kills your SSD blocks unnecessarily faster than normal. Unless they plan on reimbursing customers for the excessive wear on their SSD's, I don't see this lasting long.


it's a random guy on a forum saying that so I would take it with a pinch of salt

DRM is all fine and good but not when it affects performance. I'll still buy this game but not on release now


----------



## Feyris

If the drm works, go for it. If it does what ac:unity does....no thank you. Most of us who complain about prices either a) wait for steam sale or b) never touch it anyways.


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dean_8486*
> 
> I play fifa 15 alot and have never had any issues. I dont get the backlash of drm, as long as you are not forced to install 3rd party crap like uplay and gfwl who cares. I get the feeling alot of the community who feel so strongly have other reasons...


Origin is the same as Uplay.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-iceblade^*
> 
> Honestly, getting a PS4 for $400 with The Last of Us and GTA V on Black Friday is starting to look all the more tempting... It's like we get treated like thieves, and of course most of the time the DRM doesn't even work.


Worth it alone for the last of us.


----------



## dantoddd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adglu*
> 
> This is from RPGcodex forums


interesting. maybe someone with more knowledge about these things can explain to us how this works


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Defoler*
> 
> And why is it not needed? Because pirates be pirates? This is the lamest excuse I have heard.
> 
> If piracy is absolute, and a DRM which so far have not been cracked prevent it, than isn't it the right path for them?
> Pirates will be pirates, you put a wall which they can't go though, pirates don't bother you, pirates stop being pirates, you win. Isn't it the best outcome?
> 
> If someone wants the game for free, he doesn't pay the developer. So the developer has no reason to care about him. And people who say "well I pirate the game and if I like it I will buy it" is the bigges lie there is. So if someone really wants to the game, and now he has to pay no matter what, its great for the developer. He gets the money, give support to that person when needed, both side win.
> You will not expect to get your car for free and than go to the dealership and demand repairs under warranty, right?
> 
> The fact that there will always be people who pirate does not mean there is no reason not to try and prevent it from happening. On the same page, you should leave your house wide open, because there are burglerers, so if they exist, than might as well give in and not lock your doors and let everyone win. Might as well even give all your stuff away for free no?
> 
> And regarding mobs, this is the full developer's choice. He decided if its ok or not. Not you. The same as a painter decide that his painting is this way and you can't decided otherwise. The same as a photographer takes a picture and you are by law not allowed to make any changes to it even if you think that instagram old age filter will be absolutely adorable on it.
> Some developers are ok with it. Others are not. You can not force your wishes on the developer just because you want it so. The same as you can't go to a car manufacturer and tell them "I want this car to be 5 inches shorter" Just because it doesn't enter your driveway.


Because it has had a negative impact on performance going from what I've read about other games with Denuvo and therefore the game itself, costs money to implement and will be cracked eventually anyway...Most pirates who don't buy it eventually aren't going to buy the game in the first place because they either can't afford it or don't want to pay for it. They're arguably making the game worse and definitely spending more money and time on something that really isn't going to change anything or help anyone. By far the best way to beat piracy is to realize there's always going to be a subset of users who pirate and offer a better service with fair prices, how else do you think Steam managed to make Russia a viable market? Piracy was more rampant there than it is now in Australia before Steam competed with it.

As for pirates buying the game afterwards being a lie..Lol. Yup, believe that if you will. I won't be able to change your mind even if there was a way to prove it. Let me just say that if no pirates bought products after pirating them first, the music industry would be dead today..as it is most record labels are pulling profits in still.

Hell, read the post below yours: This could kill hardware just for their bottom line, even if it did increase sales for them that's completely unacceptable: EA as a company is already pulling in millions of dollars (Or well, could be if they hadn't started screwing the user over at every turn for a few years) whereas the little people buying the game are mostly only pulling $100k or so max annually. You're arguing the argument that the movie, music and now gaming industry have argued, lost and realized the best way is to compete. Hell, the gaming industry bar a few companies actually _have_ realized it.


----------



## Defoler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> Because it has had a negative impact on performance going from what I've read about other games with Denuvo and therefore the game itself, costs money to implement and will be cracked eventually anyway...Most pirates who don't buy it eventually aren't going to buy the game in the first place because they either can't afford it or don't want to pay for it. They're arguably making the game worse and definitely spending more money and time on something that really isn't going to change anything or help anyone. By far the best way to beat piracy is to realize there's always going to be a subset of users who pirate and offer a better service with fair prices, how else do you think Steam managed to make Russia a viable market? Piracy was more rampant there than it is now in Australia before Steam competed with it.
> 
> As for pirates buying the game afterwards being a lie..Lol. Yup, believe that if you will. I won't be able to change your mind even if there was a way to prove it. Let me just say that if no pirates bought products after pirating them first, the music industry would be dead today..as it is most record labels are pulling profits in still.
> 
> Hell, read the post below yours: This could kill hardware just for their bottom line, even if it did increase sales for them that's completely unacceptable: EA as a company is already pulling in millions of dollars (Or well, could be if they hadn't started screwing the user over at every turn for a few years) whereas the little people buying the game are mostly only pulling $100k or so max annually. You're arguing the argument that the movie, music and now gaming industry have argued, lost and realized the best way is to compete. Hell, the gaming industry bar a few companies actually _have_ realized it.


You still don't get it.
Pirates be pirates and the fact that they exist does not mean companies should just ignore it.
If they put a DRM (which I'm sorry, some claims does not make it performance hindering without proof) which eliminate piracy, and 10% of those who might have pirated actually go and buy the game, its a full win.
People will be angry, pissed off, but the bottom line is if the take their game away from piracy, they won, regardless of how good or bad the DRM is.

The music industry went from CDs to online with both free and premium streaming as well as cheaper albums, so music is more accessible so piracy on it got lowered, the same as DRM and online gaming reduced the piracy on some titles, but it did not disappear. The only thing it did accomplish is killing a large part of the retail market.

Steam or Uplay or Origin did not kill piracy in anyway. And the claim that people who have a game in their hands will want to buy it as well, I'm sorry, you can lol as much as you want, but that logic is flawed.
If the game has an online part and people buy the game to play with their friends, they would buy the game anyway. So killing the piracy doesn't affect them at all.
People who download the game to play a single player adventure, those are the pirated copied being prevented. And if they realise they have to pay in order to even play the single player part, eventually, they will pay for it. Either on sales or wait until they do have time. If you have the money for internet which allows you to download a 20GB game in the evening, than you can well damn pay for the game.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dave12*
> 
> I dunno what this is in response to but the logic is flawed. I don't pirate anything and I don't support piracy in anyway. If my Mercedes needed to call the dealership to let the car start every time I turned the key or required a constant GPS signal to operate I would say that it was bullcrap and if I wanted to deal with this kind of bullcrap I would just get an OVI and have the authorities put these kind of restrictions on me. Not the guy I just paid to build me a convenience/recreational item.


I would also like you go drive around with a stolen Mercedes like people go around sharing pirated games.
A Mercedes does not need a constant GPS to not be stolen (though most likely it will have one in its alarm). A video game does need a DRM to not stolen.
Unless you put your Mercedes in a busy street with the keys in the ignition for anyone to use as they please.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dantoddd*
> 
> interesting. maybe someone with more knowledge about these things can explain to us how this works


I would need to see the original post from LOTF forums.


----------



## curly haired boy

i'd prefer DRM-free, but _if this works and doesn't impact performance_, then i'd say they've managed to have their cake and eat it too - screwing over the pirates while not screwing over paying customers.


----------



## Faded

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ironhide138*
> 
> ....Am I the only one who doesnt really care? Game looks great


This right here.


----------



## Neo_Morpheus

omg not DRM, the nightmares of ghosts in the past, I only read a few pages in this thread, but its only took me a quick goggle search for a full working fifa15? DRM crack looks as easy as cracking the Blu-ray disc back in the day, so they could probably stop wasting loads of public time and money on this.


----------



## daviejams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo_Morpheus*
> 
> omg not DRM, the nightmares of ghosts in the past, I only read a few pages in this thread, but its only took me a quick goggle search for a full working fifa15? DRM crack looks as easy as cracking the Blu-ray disc back in the day, so they could probably stop wasting loads of public time and money on this.


That is fake apparently

Also wasting loads of public time and money ? It's Bioware's money and time , they can do what they want with it really


----------



## Torvi

quite hard for me to justify spending 40+gbp on a game.


----------



## villain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adglu*
> 
> This is from RPGcodex forums


Not really a reputable source, nothing to back it up and he called Denuvo a DRM. But if it's true, people who have played FIFA 15 or LOTF for 10s of hours should see a bigger number of bad blocks on their SSD than usual.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Defoler*
> 
> You still don't get it.
> Pirates be pirates and the fact that they exist does not mean companies should just ignore it.
> If they put a DRM (which I'm sorry, some claims does not make it performance hindering without proof) which eliminate piracy, and 10% of those who might have pirated actually go and buy the game, its a full win.
> People will be angry, pissed off, but the bottom line is if the take their game away from piracy, they won, regardless of how good or bad the DRM is.
> 
> The music industry went from CDs to online with both free and premium streaming as well as cheaper albums, so music is more accessible so piracy on it got lowered, the same as DRM and online gaming reduced the piracy on some titles, but it did not disappear. The only thing it did accomplish is killing a large part of the retail market.
> 
> Steam or Uplay or Origin did not kill piracy in anyway. And the claim that people who have a game in their hands will want to buy it as well, I'm sorry, you can lol as much as you want, but that logic is flawed.
> If the game has an online part and people buy the game to play with their friends, they would buy the game anyway. So killing the piracy doesn't affect them at all.
> People who download the game to play a single player adventure, those are the pirated copied being prevented. And if they realise they have to pay in order to even play the single player part, eventually, they will pay for it. Either on sales or wait until they do have time. If you have the money for internet which allows you to download a 20GB game in the evening, than you can well damn pay for the game.


No, *you* don't get it. It's going to be performance hindering regardless of how optimized it is because it's extra code running in the background making sure you're not running a cracked exe...Even if it was just comparing checksums or something that could lead to a longer startup time. In this case it's encrypting and decrypting game data as the game runs..If you don't think something that resource intensive won't affect your FPS then I'm sorry, but you have absolutely no idea what you're on about. Even if it's using AES and able to be sped up using the inbuilt instructions in modern CPUs it will still add a bit of overhead. (Want proof? Download TrueCrypt and make a drive then see if it's as fast as a normal drive. I can save you the time right now and tell you that there's a small but noticeable overhead) Plus, the fact it's made by the same guys who originally made SecuROM makes me weary enough...Were you around for SecuROM? I suggest you read up on some of the issues it had if not. There were more (unconfirmed) issues but those were pretty widespread and made a few games near-unplayable at launch...Plus what right do they have to say what I can or cannot have on my PC? For example with iso mounting software, I've long since ripped all of the retail games I have that don't just link to Steam so I don't have to worry about finding the discs/keys and have a much shorter install time.

The retail market was dying anyway, albums were overpriced for what they typically contained (ie. 3-4 good singles, a few tracks the artist tried on but didn't get as far with and a few filler tracks) and now they're more fairly priced on iTunes and the like...Plus with the music industry knowingly putting "filler tracks" (eg. Escape by Metallica) on albums and admitting it in interviews and the like a lot of people didn't want to pay for full albums but just for the songs they liked. They moved to digital with more extensive touring and are now making their money again, honestly? the music industry is way better for it, you still get the studio tracks and you get to see live performances where the energy is much better than what you get listening to a studio track. I say that as someone who is in a band and performing for a pittance too, it's way more fun touring and playing than recording or producing an album even if the stage is barely larger than the tables people are sitting at.

Really? You know that pirates don't pay for sure, do you? Because I do it, 3 of my co-workers do it, countless friends of mine do it, etc. I can't prove it without breaking the ToS but you're making a claim without proof here mate while also talking about the lack of proof of Denuvo performance issues. The fact that Steam is more successful than ever (It has 30 million more users than Xbox Live..) with piracy still being popular should speak volumes, honestly. People may pirate the games but it's because demos are barely any better than trailers for getting an idea of how the game is (eg. The Crysis demo showed just enough of the game to stay interesting for me...It wasn't too long after the point where the demo ended in the full game that I started finding Crysis a repetitive, boring game) and the only real way to get an idea of how a game plays is to get a copy first, *especially* since you can't get refunds through Steam where I mainly buy games these days.

And no, they won't see too many people buying the game because of this. I'm not a FIFA fan but I didn't by LOTF and won't be getting DA:I specifically because of this bullcrap (Even if I trusted SecuROMs developers, this anti-consumer bull needs to stop) and if the thing about this being in all future EA titles is true..well it's just yet another reason for me to continue my boycott of their games. They're giving me the middle finger by assuming I'm going to pirate and not buy the game while also trying to deceive me with trailers and demos that make the game look a lot better than it is so screw them, they just won't get anything. You're making way more assumptions than I am, and at least mine are supported by other industries moving to a digital storefront and actually getting somewhere in terms of sales...The physical market died the moment I could download the data anyway, whether I pay for it or not is irrelevant but companies need to realize that by offering their game with fair prices and DRM (eg. Steam, Origin, uPlay) online that most people will pay for it simply because most people know that's the only way to keep the industry going. Maybe you need to read up on this, because everything you're saying has been long since disproven...In fact considering EAs recent push to look better for consumers I have no idea why they're pulling such a dumb move now.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Defoler*
> 
> I would also like you go drive around with a stolen Mercedes like people go around sharing pirated games.
> A Mercedes does not need a constant GPS to not be stolen (though most likely it will have one in its alarm). A video game does need a DRM to not stolen.
> Unless you put your Mercedes in a busy street with the keys in the ignition for anyone to use as they please.


Except you can bypass an alarm still. Steam would be installing an alarm in your car, Denuvo or the SC always online crap would be like installing a GPS in your car: It's going a step too far, the alarm (Steam) stops most people (gets them to at least buy the game when it's on sale if nothing else) and the few extra stopped by the GPS (Denuvo) really aren't worth the extra cost to the company or consumer. I'm sure you're happy to get the shaft, but not all of us are.


----------



## Paladin Goo

Good thing I always thought Dragon Age sucked.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *digiadventures*
> 
> But in the meantime, pirates will get impatient and simply buy dragon age 3.


I suspect this will be the minority, quite possibly to the point where the number of sales lost to the inclusion of this DRM exceeds the number of potentially pirated copies turned into sales.

By and large, I think the idea that a pirated copy equates to a lost sale is an utter farce.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dean_8486*
> 
> I play fifa 15 alot and have never had any issues. I dont get the backlash of drm, as long as you are not forced to install 3rd party crap like uplay and gfwl who cares. I get the feeling alot of the community who feel so strongly have other reasons...


DRM is wasteful and insulting to paying customers.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Defoler*
> 
> Do you have any other way for the developer to prevent his game from being cracked other than using DRM?


Cracks exists to get around DRM. If the game doesn't have any DRM it can't be cracked.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Defoler*
> 
> And do you prefer DRM or a crack you are not sure does or does not contain malicious program in it which you are unaware of?
> Or do you prefer the developer to live peacefully with their game being cracked and played freely, and in turn drop those revenue losses on the legitimate customers by increasing the game price?
> Or do you prefer the developer to not develop games because he can't get enough revenue because everyone are not paying the game, but download it illegally because its easy without DRM?


I prefer buying DRM free games that aren't obnoxious to use.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Defoler*
> 
> I love people accusing the developers. But have zero response to how they can battle piracy.


The very idea that piracy needs to be "battled" is idiotic.

Businesses do best when they favor utilitarianism over inane ideologies. You want to bring in as much revenue as possible, so you should make as solid a product as possible (for the target audience), with as little overhead as possible, and price each license wherever the optimal profit point (# of sales vs. profit per sale) is.

It doesn't matter if some people are stealing your product if the measures needed to stop them won't increase your profits, and they usually won't. Pushing your ideal of justice at the expense of your paying customers is not going to do you any favors.

It doesn't matter if you think your product is worth sixty dollars a license, if you can sell ten times the number of licenses at fifteen dollars each.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Digitalwolf*
> 
> Personally I would rather have an "online" component... Think like Steam/Origin or having a license based account like MMO's have. Opposed to any form of extra "stuff" on my computer. Granted I know a lot of people don't want an online solution but... its what *I* would prefer.


Online only content is the only form of DRM that actually works, but it's generally bad for consumers because it removes any control they could have. An online only game lasts as long as the publisher says, and not a second longer. An online only game is generally difficult or impossible to mod without official sanction. An online only game leaves the possibility for licenses to be arbitrarily suspended.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> Not hard to check torrent sites and see how many are downloaded. Or go to certain file sharing forums.


No is questioning the existence of piracy, but a pirated copy does not equal to a lost sale. Personally, I would not be remotely surprised if piracy resulted in more sales. I have personally purchased games after hearing word-of-mouth reviews from people who stole them.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Defoler*
> 
> Pirates will be pirates, you put a wall which they can't go though, pirates don't bother you, pirates stop being pirates, you win. Isn't it the best outcome?


The best outcome, as a developer, is the one that makes you the most money. Pissing off your customers, or potential customers, is not the path to profit. Burning money on DRM snake oil is not the path to profit.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Defoler*
> 
> So if someone really wants to the game, and now he has to pay no matter what, its great for the developer. He gets the money, give support to that person when needed, both side win.


There are ten games that I have never played, and would certainly never spend one red cent on, for every single game I have purchased, because of DRM. Those are lost sales and lost profits, for developers and publishers, because they have alienated me, a potential customer with plenty of disposable time and money.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Defoler*
> 
> The fact that there will always be people who pirate does not mean there is no reason not to try and prevent it from happening. On the same page, you should leave your house wide open, because there are burglerers, so if they exist, than might as well give in and not lock your doors and let everyone win. Might as well even give all your stuff away for free no?


A fundamentally flawed analogy. A stolen physical object, or the damage done in the process of the theft, does deprive the rightful owner of their property, by definition. A bit of pirated IP does not imply a lost sale.

Furthermore, it's been well established that locked doors and other basic physical security measures are generally a deterrent to theft of physical property. There is very little evidence that suggests any sort of DRM has the effect of increasing sales.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Defoler*
> 
> And regarding mobs, this is the full developer's choice. He decided if its ok or not. Not you. The same as a painter decide that his painting is this way and you can't decided otherwise. The same as a photographer takes a picture and you are by law not allowed to make any changes to it even if you think that instagram old age filter will be absolutely adorable on it.


There is no law in any remotely free society that prevents one from making the modifications you talk about here. I can take any image I can get my hands on, short of protected state secrets or underage pornography, and do whatever the hell I see fit to do with it, as long as it's for my own personal use and I am not trying to sell it or claim it as my original work.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Defoler*
> 
> The same as you can't go to a car manufacturer and tell them "I want this car to be 5 inches shorter" Just because it doesn't enter your driveway.


This analogy is even worse than your other one. Modders don't go to a developer and demand the developer integrate their modifications into the game. Modders change a game, or car, they have already purchased. Nothing stops me from cutting apart an automobile and reassembling it however I please, and nothing should get in the way of me changing a game to suit my tastes.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Defoler*
> 
> I wonder.
> Do you have any other way for the developer to prevent his game from being cracked other than using DRM?
> And do you prefer DRM or a crack you are not sure does or does not contain malicious program in it which you are unaware of?
> 
> Or do you prefer the developer to live peacefully with their game being cracked and played freely, and in turn drop those revenue losses on the legitimate customers by increasing the game price?
> Or do you prefer the developer to not develop games because he can't get enough revenue because everyone are not paying the game, but download it illegally because its easy without DRM?
> 
> I love people accusing the developers. But have zero response to how they can battle piracy.
> 
> Do you like your work used freely after spending a lot of work on it?
> Will you go tomorrow to your employee and say "here is half my paycheck, take it back, I don't want it"?


Maybe they should institute Demo's again like they used to. Most of the time when a game is pirated it is either to try it out, or it was downloaded by someone who won't buy it in the first place. Other people download it because the crack's don't use DRM so they have no issues. You can't tell me this hasn't been proven.

Look at Spotify. There were so many music pirates before it, but they would rather pay for a solution that is convenient, than download stuff for free. So if the studios make it easier to purchase the games, there will likely be less piracy.


----------



## tconroy135

What makes even less sense to me about all this intrusive DRM, but especially online Authentication like UPlay (BTW Far Cry 4 already cracked lol) is that these resource heavy games, at least for PC, are being sold to people already willing to put a major investment in their PC.

Hell I just ordered a new card from NVIDIA so I could get a performance increase in new releases (Although it means I get Unity for free).

Also earlier someone made the point about consoles and Used Games, yet there isn't a AAA title that with all DLC won't cost PC users over 100$ upon release with resell being impossible. Console players own their game licenses, but we only rent ours.


----------



## Dienz

You guys talk about how you don't want to "deal with this crap" and how it's so "performance affecting" but you know what? You don't notice it when you play. Performance loss? is 1 or 2% off your average framerate going to hurt you so much that you have to rage about it? Come on, get real and level with yourself and everyone else. You still play the games. You still use Origin, or Uplay, or Steam, and/or own a console, etc etc etc.

Honestly, the hypocritical hyperbole bullcrap on these forums is starting to grate on my psyche. I expect better from you guys.


----------



## AndroidVageta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dienz*
> 
> Honestly, the hypocritical hyperbole bullcrap on these forums is starting to grate on my psyche. I expect better from you guys.


That goes both ways.


----------



## HowHardCanItBe

Hi guys, it would be appreciated if everyone would not publicly admitting they have pirated a game. This is because we have a strict piracy rule. Kindly also watch the profanity in here too.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dienz*
> 
> You guys talk about how you don't want to "deal with this crap" and how it's so "performance affecting" but you know what? You don't notice it when you play. Performance loss? is 1 or 2% off your average framerate going to hurt you so much that you have to rage about it? Come on, get real and level with yourself and everyone else. You still play the games. You still use Origin, or Uplay, or Steam, and/or own a console, etc etc etc.
> 
> Honestly, the hypocritical hyperbole bullcrap on these forums is starting to grate on my psyche. I expect better from you guys.


How is it hypocritical? And how do you know that it's unnoticable? Nearly all DRM that has been reported to be "unnoticable" has certianly been noticable with performance issues, bugs or even causing system wide issues. (eg. SecuROM, by the same developers as this would broke some CD/DVD drives)


----------



## ALiShaikh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Assirra*
> 
> Seriously, DRM in DRM?
> This is getting crazy.


Yo Dawg,..


----------



## MonarchX

Damn, looks like more people are going to have to buy the game. As long as this DRM actually works and doesn't mess with things like StarForce did back in the day, then it may become a new method of securing games. PC Game pirates are pissed and they have every reason to be. Dragon Ages: Inquisitions received very high review scores and seems to be an excellent game, better than Assassin's Creed: Unity, Far Cry 4, and a several other recent games. It WILL get cracked. Nothing is uncrackable.

One thing puzzles me - *does it mean that the game absolutely requires presence of internet connection?* If the answer is "No", then the wait for crack won't be long, but if the answer is "Yes", then there may be a working crack or a workaround in 2-3 months. By that time all those who badly wanted the game will probably buy it and those who didn't want it that much will move on. Either way - less piracy, more revenue to publishers and developers. It's like with Diablo III. It was cracked eventually, but by the time it happened, pirates already moved on to downloading a different game and Diablo III torrents vanished.

In the end, this DRM will deliver exactly what developers and publishers expected of it. It will prevent mass piracy in the first months of sale. Once that period is gone and the crack is released, the losses due to piracy will be minimal at best as the major interest will be lost. There is something to buying a new game ASAP and beating it real fast, before others, as if it connects you to you to others as they do exactly what you do - playing that game. Once 2-3 months pass and new games are released, playing older games becomes not-so-cool.


----------



## JunkoXan

I can adapt to a 3-5% performance loss... it's not bad at all.







if 3-5% performance makes a difference then I'll shut off MSAA and have that performance back.


----------



## hollowtek

Pass. Will wait for drm free. Seriously... Its single player. Why the hell do i want drm on a single player game.


----------



## tconroy135

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hollowtek*
> 
> Pass. Will wait for drm free. Seriously... Its single player. Why the hell do i want drm on a single player game.


If it were an online game they wouldn't need the DRM, except to protect your content from being stolen, so your point is a bit absurd.


----------



## hollowtek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tconroy135*
> 
> If it were an online game they wouldn't need the DRM, except to protect your content from being stolen, so your point is a bit absurd.


Point is Why should i need a connection to play offline.


----------



## tconroy135

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hollowtek*
> 
> Point is Why should i need a connection to play offline.


I wasn't aware that it was always online. I would assume it can be run in Origin Offline Mode.


----------



## iamhollywood5

Hey look, another $60 I get to keep in my pocket!


----------



## DOS_equis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *revro*
> 
> are they really sure they wanna make a DRM that cannot be cracked? I mean if this new one really works longterm, they will lose the excuse "PC = pirates". cause then the only pirates will be the console ones lol


I think they would still blame the PC since it takes one to crack the console titles.


----------



## JunkoXan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hollowtek*
> 
> Pass. Will wait for drm free. Seriously... Its single player. Why the hell do i want drm on a single player game.


there's going to be multiplayer as well, it's not just single player.


----------



## clerick

"Resource monitors for RAM and CPU consumption numbers, memory viewer for trying to figure out what makes it tick and track address issues, SSD analysis tools for those delicious dead blocks and data tracking.
Wanna know average number of times parts of LotF exe code are stuffed around between RAM and HDD in the span of one hour? 150000 copy/write iterations. That's about 10000 times more than usual. DRM constantly decrypts the game code into the memory and encrypts it back. This is the most bullcrap usage of encryption software I've ever stumbled upon. And even though code chunks are quite small (couple of kilobytes per go at worst), they are all stored in one memory block. And playing the game for 4-8 hours(depends on SSD quality) means that you can say goodbye to that block."

Awesome

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/the-dragon-age-inquisition-thread-ride-the-bull.75304/page-355#post-3599880


----------



## Xeio

It's too bad that's not how SSDs work at all or that might have sounded convincing.


----------



## Leopard2lx

Anyone played this yet?

I just played about 2 hours and so far it's pretty awesome. I switched to a controller because I absolutely hated the keyboard controls. Graphics and details are amazing.








Average frame rate for me seems to be around 55 fps once the prologue is complete and you actually start the game. This is at 1080p with max possible settings and MSAAx4. Quite demanding, but I can see why. The world is simply astonishing.
It took a bit to get used to the combat and it looks like there is going to be a lot to learn and explore.


----------



## Alexbo1101

That's not fair!







I can't play until midnight the 20th CET...


----------



## Yvese

It's quite amusing watching pirates complain on torrent sites for this game. We'll see how long this stays uncracked.

Anyway, the game is quite demanding @ 1440p. With all settings maxed except AA at 2x, I get a 30 fps average on the benchmark.


----------



## Alexbo1101

Guess I'm not going to play it at 4K then







.


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alexbo1101*
> 
> Guess I'm not going to play it at 4K then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


It's not just the framerate to watch out for though. My VRAM was hitting 3.9GB. Hopefully next-gen cards have 6-8GB standard


----------



## Alexbo1101

Alright, I'll stay at 1080p, minimum 60 fps here please


----------



## daviejams

hmm seems quite a demanding game from what I've read. I'll play at 1440p but I imagine I'll have to turn down some settings

Out on the 20th in the UK , I'll give it a week (in case of release problems) then buy it


----------



## jojoenglish85

i might be picking this up to play through the upcoming holiday season. I like Lords of the fallen though and still need to beat it. I guess that means i need to play it more often.


----------



## Glottis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> It's quite amusing watching pirates complain on torrent sites for this game. We'll see how long this stays uncracked.
> 
> Anyway, the game is quite demanding @ 1440p. With all settings maxed except AA at 2x, I get a 30 fps average on the benchmark.


Why are you being so smug? You never pirated? You visit torrent sites JUST to read if people are whining about game not getting cracked, for some reason I find that very hard to believe









(no, i do not promote piracy or anything with my post, just found funny how hypocritical some people are)


----------



## Clocknut

is there a possibility EA remove this DRM once the game is old enough? like -75% GOTY?


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HiTechPixel*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ultracarpet*
> 
> Origin has a great game guarantee, if you don't like the game after a day, just get your money back.
> 
> 
> 
> EA games only...
Click to expand...

I got a full refund for Watch Dogs (which i bought through Origin).......


----------



## Defoler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> ** wall of text**


We are not talking about SecuROM not past DRMs. Get back on topic.
This is about one DRM version which is said to might maybe possible have 1-5% performance hit. Some games have issues, other don't. So based on this I see zero proof that the DRM is the root of all evil.

According to a dev:
Quote:


> To be clear, Denuvo is not DRM in the sense the DRM stands for Digital Rights Management (or Dogs Reading Magazines, or whatever you prefer). There is nothing in the Denuvo stuff that has to do with accounts or release date checking, or ownership or anything like that. It is not SecuROM. It is not Steamworks. It is not Safedisc, or any of the other DRM solutions that have been in the past. Origin is the DRM for Dragon Age: Inquisition in the exact same manner and settings as it was in Mass Effect 3. Nothing has changed here.
> 
> Denuvo is anti-tamper on the executable. This has nothing to do with mods or attempts to change textures or anything like that. Trying to hack the executable to cheat in multiplayer? This is what we are talking about.


To me, and quoting a random post people keep quoting without actual proof of how this works, is zero proof that this is what is actually happening. as well as that claims that its a SSD killer and all sort of conspiracy theories.
Also adding that the first patch fixed more than half the performance issues and there is another patch coming to lords of the fallen, I doubt this is because of the DRM directly.

And the fact that you know a few people in your work who pirate games, and they might be buying other games, doesn't mean anything. If a person is pirating a single game and buy another, he still pirated that game.
And claiming that they buy the same game they pirated, I doubt it in most cases. Pirating the game as "demo" is still, pirating the game. If you didn't like it, you pirated the game. You stole it. End of story.
if you pirated the game, didn't like it, and than didn't buy it, you pirated the game. Doesn't matter if you played 5 minutes of 5 months. You are the proof that games pirated aren't being also bought. Your own words.

And you just said so your self.
If you can by pass the first layer of alarm, than that layer is useless (aka putting it on steam will stop no one). And if you can't bypass the second layer (can't get past the DRM), than that layer is the winner. And if on that same analogy you lose 2 HP for a thief proof system with 100% success rate (if its so), you win and thieves lose.
And as there no data how if at all that DRM hinders performance (especially since the kept stated lords of the fallen issues was mostly fixed in a patch to the game engine), this is a 100% legitimate reason to use it.

The fact that you don't like a DRM because you prefer to "demo" the game by pirating it (your words), is not a reason to steal and pirate a game.
The same as the fact that if you want to drive a Mercedes does not mean you are fine with stealing one for a joy ride to maybe, someday, probably not, buy one if you liked or didn't like it.


----------



## Hexa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *clerick*
> 
> "Resource monitors for RAM and CPU consumption numbers, memory viewer for trying to figure out what makes it tick and track address issues, SSD analysis tools for those delicious dead blocks and data tracking.
> Wanna know average number of times parts of LotF exe code are stuffed around between RAM and HDD in the span of one hour? 150000 copy/write iterations. That's about 10000 times more than usual. DRM constantly decrypts the game code into the memory and encrypts it back. This is the most bullcrap usage of encryption software I've ever stumbled upon. And even though code chunks are quite small (couple of kilobytes per go at worst), they are all stored in one memory block. And playing the game for 4-8 hours(depends on SSD quality) means that you can say goodbye to that block."
> 
> Awesome
> 
> http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/the-dragon-age-inquisition-thread-ride-the-bull.75304/page-355#post-3599880


So is this true or not? The poster below who I quoted said this is not how SSD's work so it shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darealist*
> 
> Can afford to pay thousand dollar worth of PC hardwares but cheap out on games through piracy and peasantry Steam sales. #pcmasterrace
> 
> Those "console peasants" are actually keeping AAA gaming alive.


Too bad console gaming has pirate copies before original release date, and they work flawlessly.

Meanwhile sensible legal users are storing cracks for cases servers would go down and theirs expensive game collection would become random encrypted data using space on theirs HDs.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> It's quite amusing watching pirates complain on torrent sites for this game. We'll see how long this stays uncracked.
> 
> Anyway, the game is quite demanding @ 1440p. With all settings maxed except AA at 2x, I get a 30 fps average on the benchmark.


I'm not sure it's amusing. I started playing with freeware/serious game development in garage games ages, and what I see now isn't that pretty. The gist of it is current cellphone nanied generation doesn't have proper skills/background to create certain kind of artistic passion. With pirates, it's different, they are playing and don't paying, but they children have grown in environment full of computer games, and some of them would have passion and money and would see no problem to voluntarily pay.

Well Team Fortress 2 is strong, as is Steam freeware promo library. (In fact some people pay for games on Steam to have them somewhere accessible, and don't care about HD/DVD failures anymore. Others because: "Hey Steam sale".) But these are unrelated things to DRM/exe crypters/copy protection absurdities.


----------



## Faded

I didn't have any noticeable performance issues when playing... its xfire enabled and looks to be pretty interesting. One thing i noticed is i was forced into DX11 mode, instead of mantle... even with that, it was smooth. 1440p at max, no MSAA.

on a side note, i knew nothing of the multiplayer part of the game... a scaled dungeon crawl for 4 people? oh man...


----------



## RagingCain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hexa*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *clerick*
> 
> "Resource monitors for RAM and CPU consumption numbers, memory viewer for trying to figure out what makes it tick and track address issues, SSD analysis tools for those delicious dead blocks and data tracking.
> Wanna know average number of times parts of LotF exe code are stuffed around between RAM and HDD in the span of one hour? 150000 copy/write iterations. That's about 10000 times more than usual. DRM constantly decrypts the game code into the memory and encrypts it back. This is the most bullcrap usage of encryption software I've ever stumbled upon. And even though code chunks are quite small (couple of kilobytes per go at worst), they are all stored in one memory block. And playing the game for 4-8 hours(depends on SSD quality) means that you can say goodbye to that block."
> 
> Awesome
> 
> http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/the-dragon-age-inquisition-thread-ride-the-bull.75304/page-355#post-3599880
> 
> 
> 
> So is this true or not? The poster below who I quoted said this is not how SSD's work so it shouldn't be an issue.
Click to expand...

No writes to SSD is A-Okay.

As far as I call tell this new "DRM" is anti-hacking/tampering and very clever. The only way to hack the executable (therefore create trainers / hacks) in my opinion is to remove it first. From a developer stand point, this should cause very little performance hiccups on modern systems. FX included.

Origin remains the actual DRM.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *5entinel*
> 
> Hi guys, it would be appreciated if everyone would not publicly admitting they have pirated a game. This is because we have a strict piracy rule. Kindly also watch the profanity in here too.


We could just use code words like copyright liberator, copyright freedom fighter, copyright jihad.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hexa*
> 
> So is this true or not? The poster below who I quoted said this is not how SSD's work so it shouldn't be an issue.


As I said, I'd need a link to the original post on LOTF forums. The bioware, and rpgcodex, sources only quoted it, but didn't link to the original. I also seen a post on Bioware forums with LOL number of read and writes to SSD, but well who would play games from SSD? I use a completely normal HDD for playing and I'm without problem with wear and tear. (It's Constellation ES.3 to be exact.)

Obviously when 100 hours of playing of DA:I would create 4+ TB reads and writes, it would reduce livespan of your SSD.


----------



## coupe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XAslanX*
> 
> Yes it is a load of nonsense that this unwanted DRM is being forced on us consumers.


Blame the crooks and don't blame the people trying to protect themselves.

As long as I don't notice it, I could care less.


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Glottis*
> 
> Why are you being so smug? You never pirated? You visit torrent sites JUST to read if people are whining about game not getting cracked, for some reason I find that very hard to believe
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (no, i do not promote piracy or anything with my post, just found funny how hypocritical some people are)


Reading pirates complain on torrent sites somehow makes me a hypocrite?







. I have the game if that's what you're wondering. The only reason I mentioned it is to check whether or not this game has been cracked, and so far it has not so clearly Denuvo is working ( as it has for Fifa 15 and LOTF )

Reading pages upon pages of complaints on various sites of people throwing tantrums they can't play for free? It's amusing. That's all.


----------



## digiadventures

Well I just read couple of posts right here in this thread how demanding the game is. 55 fps on a 980 GTX at 1080p ???
And there is no posibility that Denuvo might be responsible, right ? Well, I am not so sure...
I just find it strange that this game is so demanding, it seems more so then for example Far Cry 4 who also just released and is open world, with good graphics, and is fps.
Just a coincidence that Far Cry 4 is not using Denuvo ?

Its just 1-5 % so it can't be Denuvo, right ? I do remember for example when witcher 2 removed DRM I was getting like 20% to 50% speedup in some areas...


----------



## daviejams

I am pretty sure that folk saying that the DRM is causing performance issues are making it up

Hopefully all games start using it as it does seem to be pirate proof so far


----------



## Clairvoyant129

^Agreed.

Hope this DRM is pirate proof (doubt it) but I like seeing idiots on Pirate Bay complaining why particular games won't run.


----------



## Blaise170

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Defoler*
> 
> I wonder.
> Do you have any other way for the developer to prevent his game from being cracked other than using DRM?
> And do you prefer DRM or a crack you are not sure does or does not contain malicious program in it which you are unaware of?
> 
> Or do you prefer the developer to live peacefully with their game being cracked and played freely, and in turn drop those revenue losses on the legitimate customers by increasing the game price?
> Or do you prefer the developer to not develop games because he can't get enough revenue because everyone are not paying the game, but download it illegally because its easy without DRM?
> 
> I love people accusing the developers. But have zero response to how they can battle piracy.
> 
> Do you like your work used freely after spending a lot of work on it?
> Will you go tomorrow to your employee and say "here is half my paycheck, take it back, I don't want it"?


GOG and CD Projekt Red are the examples of what game development should be. I know tons of people that pre-ordered TW3 just because it _doesn't_ have DRM.


----------



## MonarchX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daviejams*
> 
> I am pretty sure that folk saying that the DRM is causing performance issues are making it up
> 
> Hopefully all games start using it as it does seem to be pirate proof so far


DRM did cause performance issue in the past for some people. There are so many PC spec and software combinations out there that something is bound to supposedly interfere with whichever DRM is being used. In such cases, there can be either a performance degradation, stability issues, or even game launching issues. As long as such issues do not exist, I am OK with DRM.
*
I would much rather prefer to have DRM screw pirates over, even if that affects me (not that I am a pirate of course!), instead of games being released unfinished, like Assassin's Creed - Unity.* I would prefer to have fewer games that are in excellent condition and have excellent support than have several "free" games that needed 3 more months of heavy development. Maybe then developers would take PC's seriously and optimize console ports to a much higher standard. Our PC's are capable of running all these games at 60fps+ constantly if not more, but instead we get poor coding and sub-par performance of what it COULD be. I strongly believe piracy has a *big negative impact on developers' morale and at least some negative impact on sales*. Why bother working hard to develop a game that will be *more likely stolen than bought*? Even if that has a small revenue impact, it still makes developers think twice before spending that extra hour after 5 PM to get that coding just right and right on time.


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blaise170*
> 
> GOG and CD Projekt Red are the examples of what game development should be. I know tons of people that pre-ordered TW3 just because it _doesn't_ have DRM.


I'd prefer they used Denuvo if it remains uncracked for the simple reason that it actually works against piracy so far. I want them to be rewarded for their work, not have it stolen by millions.


----------



## Xeio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hexa*
> 
> So is this true or not? The poster below who I quoted said this is not how SSD's work so it shouldn't be an issue.


As I mentioned, that post doesn't describe how SSDs work at all.

You can't write to a specific block to try and kill that block. SSDs only pretend to let you do that since they mimic hard disks. It's all being wear-leveled in the background, even on old SSDs (or even old flash drives!).


----------



## Blaise170

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> I'd prefer they used Denuvo if it remains uncracked for the simple reason that it actually works against piracy so far. I want them to be rewarded for their work, not have it stolen by millions.


If it works without hindering legitimate customers, sure.


----------



## Fickle Pickle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *digiadventures*
> 
> Well I just read couple of posts right here in this thread how demanding the game is. 55 fps on a 980 GTX at 1080p ???
> And there is no posibility that Denuvo might be responsible, right ? Well, I am not so sure...
> I just find it strange that this game is so demanding, it seems more so then for example Far Cry 4 who also just released and is open world, with good graphics, and is fps.
> Just a coincidence that Far Cry 4 is not using Denuvo ?
> 
> Its just 1-5 % so it can't be Denuvo, right ? I do remember for example when witcher 2 removed DRM I was getting like 20% to 50% speedup in some areas...


An absence of proof is not proof.


----------



## Mygaffer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *digiadventures*
> 
> Well this new drm seems to work for now, Fifa hasn't been cracked for almost two months now. Since its offline only solution, no need to customers to connect online, I belive it will be cracked eventually. But in the meantime, pirates will get impatient and simply buy dragon age 3.
> Even if it lasts only a month more, it can be considered very successful.
> 
> But we will see I guess how long it lasts


Even when it works it doesn't work. Look at the sales figures for the uncracked games versus earlier games. The vast majority of people who pirate a game like that were never going to pay full release price for it.

Those that do end up buying the game when otherwise they might have pirated it are offset, at least to some degree, by those who will not buy games with strong DRM. Not to mention that when your game runs poorly or not at all due to your DRM you damage your brand with any customers who have issues related to the DRM, whether they realize it is caused by the DRM or not. I forget which game it was, but there was a game that caused a game breaking bug if it detected a pirated version. Well no one knew it was because of the DRM so when forums were flooded with reports of this game breaking bug a lot of people who might otherwise have purchased the game didn't, and the game ended up not doing too well. I tried a little googling but can't find the article about it I read.

In any case, look at GOG.com. In most cases the least pirated version of a particular game IS the gog version. In any case the only way you can compete with piracy is to offer a better, more convenient product. Even if this DRM is unbroken today, history has shown that even the most difficult DRM gets cracked eventually.


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blaise170*
> 
> If it works without hindering legitimate customers, sure.


Been playing Inquisition for a few hours now and have not had any issues aside from one crash related to Origin


----------



## bluewr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> Been playing Inquisition for a few hours now and have not had any issues aside from one crash related to Origin


Really, my game has been pretty buggy, not as bad as assassin creed unity, but I'll wait for a major patch first.
Floating/disappearing NPC, and random crashes.


----------



## tconroy135

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bluewr*
> 
> Really, my game has been pretty buggy, not as bad as assassin creed unity, but I'll wait for a major patch first.
> Floating/disappearing NPC, and random crashes.


This is probably because AMD will run this game better before driver updates, just as NVIDA is running ACU and FC4 better than AMD. The console wars are now the GPU wars.


----------



## Herstal

I've been playing for a few hours as well - no technical issues so far, game's running nicely on ultra (minus MSAA). I had a look at the SSD load to see if there are really any Denovo-related problems, didn't see anything abnormal - less than 1GB write over ~120 minutes.


----------



## iSlayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coupe*
> 
> Blame the crooks and don't blame the people trying to protect themselves.
> 
> As long as I don't notice it, I could care less.


Uh not to defend piracy but burden of responsibility falls on those reacting. EA chose to have the DRM as a response to piracy, they didn't need to. Thus, consequences of it lay mainly in their lap.

As it is with Valve, Ubisoft, Rockstar, Konami, insert every other game Dev...


----------



## Eduardv

Many users have expressed that there is no perforamance loss adapting this DRM,which means it is posed to have great success and many games will follow on from here,FIFA 15 has no performance issues with DRM,and it hasnt been cracked yet. So i am very sorry for pirates,if you wanna play ,go pay.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iSlayer*
> 
> Uh not to defend piracy but burden of responsibility falls on those reacting. EA chose to have the DRM as a response to piracy, they didn't need to. Thus, consequences of it lay mainly in their lap.
> 
> As it is with Valve, Ubisoft, Rockstar, Konami, insert every other game Dev...


Pretty much, if EA feels the need to invest in DRM which costs a freaking fortune to licence when they could have just taken the steam route, required a (online optional) Origin account and a cd key, saved a couple million $$$ then IF this situation blows up, they deserve it.

From what Im seeing its not too big of a issue though, the DRM looks fairly benign...not that it is, that's just first appearance.


----------



## AndroidVageta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> Reading pages upon pages of complaints on various sites of people throwing tantrums they can't play for free? It's amusing. That's all.


So when I borrow my friends copy from his console, play it for free, and complete it that's OK though, right? I mean, it's not illegal so it's perfect fine to you despite the dev's and pub's not getting a penny from me. That's so much different from just pirating a game, huh?


----------



## hollowtek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coupe*
> 
> Blame the crooks and don't blame the people trying to protect themselves.
> 
> As long as I don't notice it, I could care less.


Slippery slope ... This mentality is why we have stupid stuff enforced onnl us to begin with


----------



## daviejams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hollowtek*
> 
> Slippery slope ... This mentality is why we have stupid stuff enforced onnl us to begin with


No it's because people would pirate it and steal it
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndroidVageta*
> 
> So when I borrow my friends copy from his console, play it for free, and complete it that's OK though, right? I mean, it's not illegal so it's perfect fine to you despite the dev's and pub's not getting a penny from me. That's so much different from just pirating a game, huh?


Er yes it is different , the devs would have gotten a sale from someone for the copy that has been borrowed / sold second hand

They don't get any sales from piracy

A better analogy would be stealing the game from a shop then giving it to you friend to play. No sale same as piracy


----------



## AndroidVageta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daviejams*
> 
> Er yes it is different , the devs would have gotten a sale from someone for the copy that has been borrowed / sold second hand
> 
> They don't get any sales from piracy
> 
> A better analogy would be stealing the game from a shop then giving it to you friend to play. No sale same as piracy


No, the game was originally purchased in order for the leaker to put it online. Did they steal it from Steam/Origin/UPlay? I'm sure they'd like to know how that's done!


----------



## overpass

If it doesn't access TB amounts of data while in effect, I think it is a good solution. And DA:I is not that rigorous to begin with to have the 1~5% really matter for most people.


----------



## Flames21891

When did DRM automatically become a bad thing?

I can see hating intrusive or buggy DRM, a la GFWL or UPlay. But, as far as I'm concerned, If the DRM sits quietly in the corner, doesn't keep me from playing my legitimately purchased game, doesn't ask me to log into to some extraneous BS, and doesn't cause issues with the game itself, it's perfectly OK in my book.

Denuvo seems to meet that criteria and, on top of all that, it's actually doing its job for the moment. I see no problems here.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coupe*
> 
> Blame the crooks and don't blame the people trying to protect themselves.


Yeah, cause assuming every single one of your customers is a thief, treating them as such, then implementing measures that only punish the legitimate customers is a reasonable way for them to protect themselves.

The "crooks" aren't harming my gaming experience. Indeed, the cracks put out often improve my (legitimately purchased) products considerably.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> I'd prefer they used Denuvo if it remains uncracked for the simple reason that it actually works against piracy so far. I want them to be rewarded for their work, not have it stolen by millions.


Mutually exclusive sentiments here.

A significant portion of their customers go to them because they can get good DRM free games. Increase the security against theft, alienate paying customers, lose money. No way around this. They have accepted the fact that some people will enjoy their titles without compensating them as a necessary part of doing business and retaining paying customers.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flames21891*
> 
> When did DRM automatically become a bad thing?


It's always automatically been a bad thing. People have been negatively impacted by DRM since before the term was coined. I'm well above the mean age on OCN and people have been pissed off by copy protection methods since before I was born.

I remember countless frustrations from my early days with C64 and DOS games requiring me to dig out manuals I had lost, or randomly guess words because I ran into the "on page n paragraph x, what is word that starts with the letter 'blow me'" copy protection schemes...stalling me 15 minutes into the game I spent 70 dollars on, while someone who copied the game, but had the foresight to print out a code sheet (found on a BBS), had a more enjoyable experience.

Oh how little things have changed.


----------



## KingGreasy

I haven't noticed the DRM in anyway yet. My problem with older DRM were the constant/periodic online requirements, install limits, and it breaking functionality for having some stuff they didn't like installed. Most annoying bug though is I'm a guy character and everyone adresses me with female pro-nouns. I'm five hours in and don't want to restart. The stuttering during cut-scenes isn't bad after the new Nvidia driver. Main issue though is I hate how it controls with mouse and keyboard. Hold R or Mouse1 to keep attacking is really annoying. Also targeting sucks so bad with KB/M. Everything else is great and I'm enjoying it, but this is the first RPG on PC I prefer with a gamepad. I'm using an Xbox One controller now. After now using an Xbox One controller and PS4 controller, I think the best controller would be an Xbox One controller with both sticks above the D-pad and ABXY buttons. Also a touch-pad. I can imagine using the PS4 controller on a HTPC.


----------



## staryoshi

After about 5-6 hours of playtime I've had no stability issues, great graphics performance, and I haven't heard a peep from the DRM system. It is non-intrusive and a-ok in my book. The only issue I ran into was a bug where the NPCs referred to me as a "she" instead of a "he." It was early enough in the game that I just remade my character, which fixed it, rather than waiting for a bug-fix.


----------



## Azuredragon1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *staryoshi*
> 
> After about 5-6 hours of playtime I've had no stability issues, great graphics performance, and I haven't heard a peep from the DRM system. It is non-intrusive and a-ok in my book. The only issue I ran into was a bug where the NPCs referred to me as a "she" instead of a "he." It was early enough in the game that I just remade my character, which fixed it, rather than waiting for a bug-fix.


Same here, no bugs that I have notice yet and unless someone told me that it had Denuvo DRM, I wouldn't notice it either.


----------



## darealist

Verdict: game runs great. Most problems come from those who can't run a cracked version resorting to spreading lies.


----------



## dantoddd

i am super pissed at DA: I not being available where I live


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dantoddd*
> 
> i am super pissed at DA: I not being available where I live....YET


ftfy









And yeah, I've got about 7 hours till it launches in Aus, won't matter though as i still haven't finished downloading it and I'm working tomorrow but no matter, weekend is just around the corner!


----------



## Geneaux

I find ridiculous that some people outright refuse to buy the game just because it has DRM. This is practically potential Game of the Year material here, and the only thing that is on some peoples' minds is that it came with security software. Publishers and developers lose money to pirates regardless of what chart you wanna use.


----------



## kx11

3rd party key selling website vs Origin


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kx11*
> 
> 3rd party key selling website vs Origin
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


That's nothing new tbh, Plenty of sites are selling keys for it........big difference between that and a pirated copy


----------



## azanimefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *staryoshi*
> 
> After about 5-6 hours of playtime I've had no stability issues, great graphics performance, and I haven't heard a peep from the DRM system. It is non-intrusive and a-ok in my book. The only issue I ran into was a bug where the NPCs referred to me as a "she" instead of a "he." It was early enough in the game that I just remade my character, which fixed it, rather than waiting for a bug-fix.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azuredragon1*
> 
> Same here, no bugs that I have notice yet and unless someone told me that it had Denuvo DRM, I wouldn't notice it either.


Agree'ed, i've seen no signs of some DRM boogieman screwing up the game. works fine. Origins is still junk of course. but the game works pretty close to as flawless as i'd expect for a modern game on release day. give bioware kudos. it's been a fun play and i've not even scratched the surface of it 12 hours in now. huge and fun game.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Geneaux*
> 
> I find ridiculous that some people outright refuse to buy the game just because it has DRM. This is practically potential Game of the Year material here, and the only thing that is on some peoples' minds is that it came with security software. Publishers and developers lose money to pirates regardless of what chart you wanna use.


well, if i wasn't such a fan of DA:O and been sold on the reviews for this game i would be in that boat too. I remember what a nightmare Origins made my experience with Mass Effect2 & 3; all the issues i had with those games vanishes and the games became flawless when i downloaded pirate cracks to free those games from origins. I was so ticked off about that i swore i'd never buy another EA game again.

Seems they ironed out their issues. Glad it worked out this time.


----------



## dantoddd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sgt Bilko*
> 
> ftfy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yeah, I've got about 7 hours till it launches in Aus, won't matter though as i still haven't finished downloading it and I'm working tomorrow but no matter, weekend is just around the corner!


its not a matter of YET! they've banned it in India. I live in Sri Lanka which shares the Origin Store with India. Because of the ban in India, I can't get it here as well. I was super excited for this game.


----------



## AndroidVageta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Geneaux*
> 
> Publishers and developers lose money to pirates regardless of what chart you wanna use.


Evidence? Last I check pirates buy more than those that don't. If anything it probably helps the industry more than hurts it.


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dantoddd*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Sgt Bilko*
> 
> ftfy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yeah, I've got about 7 hours till it launches in Aus, won't matter though as i still haven't finished downloading it and I'm working tomorrow but no matter, weekend is just around the corner!
> 
> 
> 
> its not a matter of YET! they've banned it in India. I live in Sri Lanka which shares the Origin Store with India. Because of the ban in India, I can't get it here as well. I was super excited for this game.
Click to expand...

Can't buy a key from Kinguin?

Can't see a reason why not tbh


----------



## sepiashimmer

Better buy Mass Effect trilogy and Dead Space trilogy before this crap gets in it.


----------



## Geneaux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *azanimefan*
> 
> well, if i wasn't such a fan of DA:O and been sold on the reviews for this game i would be in that boat too. I remember what a nightmare Origins made my experience with Mass Effect2 & 3; all the issues i had with those games vanishes and the games became flawless when i downloaded pirate cracks to free those games from origins. I was so ticked off about that i swore i'd never buy another EA game again.
> 
> Seems they ironed out their issues. Glad it worked out this time.


That was on fault of the DRM, not the game. Like anything else, you have no choice but to put your trust in the developer in that they'll be appropriately patched like anything else involving the game, or a community hotfix. It is what it is, but its just not something I find worth pirating over by any means.

Nonetheless, each to his own as they say.


----------



## dantoddd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sgt Bilko*
> 
> Can't buy a key from Kinguin?
> 
> Can't see a reason why not tbh


I'm not too familiar with third party sites. In anycase EA prices games at lower rates here. DA;I is only about 29 USD here.


----------



## MonarchX

The game runs perfectly fine on my PC! No issues with DRM! I only bench 55fps avg. and 45fps min., but the game is awesome!

It does have 1 single turn off that I wish it didn't have. The game doe not have the original Dragon Age: Origins theme and art theme. Origins was all about sadness and blood. You could easily witness that in its brownish art style, which fit perfectly with the narrative and the plot. Inquisition a bit banal/generic when it comes to its art form. Graphics are nice, but the art style is practically non-existent. Maybe things will change as I move on, but based on the screenshots I have seen - the game will continue having nice graphics, but no underlying art theme. I think Dragon Age 2 was also generic, but it had so much negativity attached to it that I never bothered playing it.


----------



## tconroy135

I've noticed the game takes quite awhile to start, but idk if it is the DRM or not...


----------



## atomicmew

nevermind


----------



## Faded

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tconroy135*
> 
> I've noticed the game takes quite awhile to start, but idk if it is the DRM or not...


I doubt it... have you looked at your memory usage while it is loading? It is loading a metric crap-ton of data... for me, it uses close to 5gb on it's own. However, once its done that initial load, I find that the following load screens are quite fast.

Now that I am about 6 hours in, I feel like I can honestly say that this game is really damn good... I've unlocked some other areas, after the first, but I haven't left the first area because there is just so much more to do. If the first zone is an indicator of the other ones, this game is going to take a long time to finish.


----------



## semitope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faded*
> 
> I doubt it... have you looked at your memory usage while it is loading? It is loading a metric crap-ton of data... for me, it uses close to 5gb on it's own. However, once its done that initial load, I find that the following load screens are quite fast.
> 
> Now that I am about 6 hours in, I feel like I can honestly say that this game is really damn good... I've unlocked some other areas, after the first, but I haven't left the first area because there is just so much more to do. If the first zone is an indicator of the other ones, this game is going to take a long time to finish.


Yeah I think the game may be worth the cash for those who've bought it. Figure they think so too and therefore put the fancy new DRM on it. Still not buying









What I am interested in is sales on PC and consoles right now. the game may be good but I am sure its not what most gamers nowadays would be committed to. Slightly more complicated than the usual fps and I think it'll give a lot of people a headache just trying to get through all that content. Makes me wonder how witcher will fare, though i suspect it will be more accessible with just one character to manage


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faded*
> 
> I doubt it... have you looked at your memory usage while it is loading? It is loading a metric crap-ton of data... for me, it uses close to 5gb on it's own. However, once its done that initial load, I find that the following load screens are quite fast.
> 
> Now that I am about 6 hours in, I feel like I can honestly say that this game is really damn good... I've unlocked some other areas, after the first, but I haven't left the first area because there is just so much more to do. If the first zone is an indicator of the other ones, this game is going to take a long time to finish.


I'm 20 hours in and I still haven't really left the first area ( hinterlands ) lol. There's so much to do it's ridiculous!

Then again I like to explore and loot anything around me. The fact that you're a submarine now with all the pinging doesn't help either


----------



## jlucio

I'm sure this DRM will boost the sales in one segment: hackers. If I were a hacker I'd be pretty happy to be the first one to crack it.


----------



## tconroy135

The game seems pretty poorly optimized. Loading taking a long time. Ugh...


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tconroy135*
> 
> The game seems pretty poorly optimized. Loading taking a long time. Ugh...


How long per load screen?

and aren't the maps quite large?


----------



## iTurn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tconroy135*
> 
> The game seems pretty poorly optimized. Loading taking a long time. Ugh...


PC or Console?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sgt Bilko*
> 
> How long per load screen?
> 
> and aren't the maps quite large?


Yep they're quite large, similar to Skyrim from what I've seen.


----------



## Xeio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sgt Bilko*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tconroy135*
> 
> The game seems pretty poorly optimized. Loading taking a long time. Ugh...
> 
> 
> 
> How long per load screen?
> 
> and aren't the maps quite large?
Click to expand...

On an SSD they're a few seconds. Interestingly exiting the game seems to be one of the slowest operations.

Probably the longest load screens I've seen in a while, but still not long enough to read all that fun lore they put on them.


----------



## Faded

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sgt Bilko*
> 
> How long per load screen?
> 
> and aren't the maps quite large?


Its the initial load that takes quite a long time... several minutes. Once that is done, any subsequent load times are a matter of seconds, for me... it only loads when moving to an entirely new map/zone. I have not experienced any loads when stepping into a cut scene or interactive conversation.

I'm not sure this is an optimization problem though, its just loading a ton of data into system memory... this game uses more memory than any game I've ever played, even skyrim with mods didn't come close to maxing out 8gb and this one sits at just over 7, for me.


----------



## Faded

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semitope*
> 
> Yeah I think the game may be worth the cash for those who've bought it. Figure they think so too and therefore put the fancy new DRM on it. Still not buying
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What I am interested in is sales on PC and consoles right now. the game may be good but I am sure its not what most gamers nowadays would be committed to. Slightly more complicated than the usual fps and I think it'll give a lot of people a headache just trying to get through all that content. Makes me wonder how witcher will fare, though i suspect it will be more accessible with just one character to manage


I just can't really tell where the DRM comes into play, or how its affecting the game... I'm not the type to discount a game for the sole point that it uses DRM, but if it's game affecting to the point that it's a hindrance, that is something else entirely.

When G4WL was kicking, it was such a hassle to get working that I would avoid playing a game I had bought BECAUSE of it... even then, I could spend the time getting the profile configured and logged in, only for the G4WL update/sync process to crash the game... THAT is unacceptable DRM, in my opinion. Something that I can't see, or requires little-to-no input, on my part, I do not care about.


----------



## JoeelMex

I dont see no problem with this type of DRM. I would buy this game on day one if I could play it. I run it Linux now full time on all of my pc's.


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tconroy135*
> 
> The game seems pretty poorly optimized. Loading taking a long time. Ugh...


Um.. on my end it loads fast to the point where I can't even read more than 2 sentences on the cards on the loading screen before it loads..

Just because it loads a little longer than you're used to doesn't mean it's poorly optimized.


----------



## Danzle

To quote myself from the LTT Forum regarding the "DRM degrades the SSD" stuff:
Quote:


> So, i did 60min of DA:I and did make befor and after screenshots. Ignore the typo~
> 
> Before:
> 
> 
> After:
> 
> 
> Next to each other:
> 
> 
> There was a total writte of 400MB if i calculatet correctly. That's 44,6GB less than the rumor spreader called out! So no danger at all just BS.


The game runs just fine for me and i play on a 2 years old gaming notebook with a 680m SLI. On High with no AA the game looks just gorgeous. Dind't Crash for the 6h+ playtime on me and had only minor grafikglitches while testing settings on ultra (flickering areas). From time to time people will pop in butt only when doing fast travel.


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Danzle*
> 
> To quote myself from the LTT Forum regarding the "DRM degrades the SSD" stuff:
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> So, i did 60min of DA:I and did make befor and after screenshots. Ignore the typo~
> 
> Before:
> 
> 
> After:
> 
> 
> Next to each other:
> 
> 
> There was a total writte of 400MB if i calculatet correctly. That's 44,6GB less than the rumor spreader called out! So no danger at all just BS.
Click to expand...

I've had a similar experience on my end


----------



## azanimefan

yeah, my hard drive doesn't get hit at all by this game. my RAM does, at times this game goes up to 6gb in ram usage.


----------



## Skillers Inc

Well I bit the bullet and picked up the game, I don't see any issues except for my game crashing during cutscenes every so often with a directx error. I resolved that but now instead of giving me an error it just freezes the game, with the audio still playing. I'm not really pushing my system all that hard but for some reason it just doesn't like this game which is sad because I do.


----------



## Penicilyn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skillers Inc*
> 
> Well I bit the bullet and picked up the game, I don't see any issues except for my game crashing during cutscenes every so often with a directx error. I resolved that but now instead of giving me an error it just freezes the game, with the audio still playing. I'm not really pushing my system all that hard but for some reason it just doesn't like this game which is sad because I do.


Did you disable Origin ingame?

That fixed all my issues (except SLI flicker on some rocks)


----------



## Skillers Inc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Penicilyn*
> 
> Did you disable Origin ingame?
> 
> That fixed all my issues (except SLI flicker on some rocks)


I have, I disabled that, turned off Ambient Inclusion, updated all of my Windows patches and have the newest drivers available. I will do some more investigating when I get home, currently at work counting down the hours until I can hook back in lol.


----------



## Danzle

I never had problems with origin or the games. I got rid of the SLI flickering with setting everything on high and turning MSAA off. Runs perfekt!


----------



## semitope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skillers Inc*
> 
> I have, I disabled that, turned off *Ambient Inclusion*, updated all of my Windows patches and have the newest drivers available. I will do some more investigating when I get home, currently at work counting down the hours until I can hook back in lol.


*chuckles*

I might buy the game at $30







well... maybe $25. Though I would rather $5


----------



## Skillers Inc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semitope*
> 
> *chuckles*
> 
> I might buy the game at $30
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> well... maybe $25. Though I would rather $5


Yeah super happy that I have 2 4GB 760's that get to do some work... Oh wait they don't.


----------



## semitope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skillers Inc*
> 
> Yeah super happy that I have 2 4GB 760's that get to do some work... Oh wait they don't.


I mean its supposed to be ambient occlusion, not inclusion.


----------



## Skillers Inc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semitope*
> 
> I mean its supposed to be ambient occlusion, not inclusion.


Sorry my brain doesn't function as well here at work. Maybe I should be banging it against the keyboard less.


----------



## ventacon

So far from what I understand is that the new DRM dosnt really effect gameplay or your system performance?
If that is the case then I would have to give the makers of it major props, I am always very afraid of new and different DRM platforms that come out. If this really does nothing to affect my systems performance then I cant really say no to buying this game.

I am sure though that it will eventually be cracked, Denuvo says it took 46 days for FIFA 14 to be cracked. I guess Lords of the Fallen is up next, I expect to see something around 40 days and with each new release the numbers slowly dwindling down to a day or two.


----------



## Ha-Nocri

I think pirates mostly come from poorer countries and I dont think they will start buying games now b/c they can't. So will devs make more money? Sure, but not by much. And the game will not be widely known b/c not as many ppl will play it.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faded*
> 
> Its the initial load that takes quite a long time... several minutes. Once that is done, any subsequent load times are a matter of seconds, for me... it only loads when moving to an entirely new map/zone. I have not experienced any loads when stepping into a cut scene or interactive conversation.
> 
> I'm not sure this is an optimization problem though, its just loading a ton of data into system memory... this game uses more memory than any game I've ever played, even skyrim with mods didn't come close to maxing out 8gb and this one sits at just over 7, for me.


Several minutes? Jeez, I'm running and ancient SSD here (Intel X-25M G2), and it runs a lot quicker than that. Yes, its super slow compared to most games... but maps are a lot bigger too.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skillers Inc*
> 
> Well I bit the bullet and picked up the game, I don't see any issues except for my game crashing during cutscenes every so often with a directx error. I resolved that but now instead of giving me an error it just freezes the game, with the audio still playing. I'm not really pushing my system all that hard but for some reason it just doesn't like this game which is sad because I do.


Im playing with a GTX760, and the most stable driver yet is the 244.65 (although I'm on W7 64). 244.75 is horrible, and the beta 244.80 is even worse. I still get occasional CTD's... but its not that bad. Before, I had done a few cutscenes like 4 times... and the damn game doesn't save AFTER a big battle, meaning that if it crashes in the cutscenes after, you gotta repeat the whole thing.


----------



## Jiiks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faded*
> 
> Its the initial load that takes quite a long time... several minutes. Once that is done, any subsequent load times are a matter of seconds, for me... it only loads when moving to an entirely new map/zone. I have not experienced any loads when stepping into a cut scene or interactive conversation.
> 
> I'm not sure this is an optimization problem though, its just loading a ton of data into system memory... this game uses more memory than any game I've ever played, even skyrim with mods didn't come close to maxing out 8gb and this one sits at just over 7, for me.


How is it using so much memory for you? Mine is below 2GB at all times. I haven't had loading times longer than few seconds either.

40hrs played so far without any issues. Great game just too many bad side quests.


----------



## adogg23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jiiks*
> 
> How is it using so much memory for you? Mine is below 2GB at all times. I haven't had loading times longer than few seconds either.
> 
> 40hrs played so far without any issues. Great game just too many bad side quests.


same thing for me too. im using a gtx 970 and and its running perfectly smooth. my ram use is only around 2gigs at the most that i have seen and im about 15 hrs into it. this is a great game, and i need to get out of these forums and start playing agin lol.


----------



## Silent Scone

Lord of the Fallen does, or at least did have issues 2 or 3 weeks ago. I had performance issues since one of the recent patches, 1.3 IIRC? Dragon Age seems to run pretty well.

People wouldn't be happy if they didn't have something to moan about. Some of the comments in here just seem like people looking for an excuse.


----------



## Faded

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Several minutes? Jeez, I'm running and ancient SSD here (Intel X-25M G2), and it runs a lot quicker than that. Yes, its super slow compared to most games... but maps are a lot bigger too.
> Im playing with a GTX760, and the most stable driver yet is the 244.65 (although I'm on W7 64). 244.75 is horrible, and the beta 244.80 is even worse. I still get occasional CTD's... but its not that bad. Before, I had done a few cutscenes like 4 times... and the damn game doesn't save AFTER a big battle, meaning that if it crashes in the cutscenes after, you gotta repeat the whole thing.


Yeah it was on my 1tb platter drive and it took a LONG time to load... I have since installed it onto an SSD and the difference is substantial. Less than a minute for the initial load and a few seconds for anything else.

The amount of memory used, the first couple days after launch, was well into the 4.5-5gb range... now, it around 2.5gb, maybe a little less. I don't know why it was using so much memory, initially.


----------



## Yvese

Been a week and it still hasn't been cracked. Looking good


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> Been a week and it still hasn't been cracked. Looking good


Yep.....good on them, this is drm i can fully accept


----------



## Azuredragon1

Got DAI on the first day, # of CTD:1, pretty good so far.


----------



## Brutuz

Well there we go. It seems the problems with other games running Denuvo may have been alleviated. I'm going to keep a close eye on it but it may be an alternative but still effective DRM for a bit.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> Been a week and it still hasn't been cracked. Looking good


I would not call wolf yet. People are quite crossed with EA as of late and I am sure the `brilliant minds` are at work just to send a message. I will buy this game when the price drops.


----------



## daviejams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*
> 
> I would not call wolf yet. People are quite crossed with EA as of late and I am sure the `brilliant minds` are at work just to send a message. I will buy this game when the price drops.


FIFA has been out for months and that has not been cracked and that uses this type of DRM

I think EA has managed it this time and I for one am pleased. You could say EA has cracked this piracy thing !


----------



## Feyris

Thats because its fifa.


----------



## Wishmaker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daviejams*
> 
> FIFA has been out for months and that has not been cracked and that uses this type of DRM
> 
> I think EA has managed it this time and I for one am pleased. *You could say EA has cracked this piracy thing* !


I will quote this when DA:I gets cracked.


----------



## daviejams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*
> 
> I will quote this when DA:I gets cracked.


Ha ! it may well get cracked but lets all cross our fingers and hope it's impossible


----------



## brucethemoose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *daviejams*
> 
> FIFA has been out for months and that has not been cracked and that uses this type of DRM
> 
> I think EA has managed it this time and I for one am pleased. *You could say EA has cracked this piracy thing* !
> 
> 
> 
> I will quote this when DA:I gets cracked.
Click to expand...

^

The only "uncrackable" DRM is multiplayer/remote streaming. If everything is local, it can and will be cracked.


----------



## DIYDeath

Of course it'll be cracked. Someone wants that trophy piece so they can brag about it. Cool thing is this DRM seems to be pretty solid so far.


----------



## semitope

Still want to know if the DRM helped them accomplish what they wanted. I played it on PS4 and am hoping the PC version is not the same. Seemed like an action RPG more than I like. The guy said he beat it on nightmare without using tactical camera...


----------



## Leopard2lx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semitope*
> 
> Still want to know if the DRM helped them accomplish what they wanted. I played it on PS4 and am hoping the PC version is not the same. Seemed like an action RPG more than I like. The guy said he beat it on nightmare without using tactical camera...


The tactical camera is completely optional. How is beating the game without using it a bad thing?
And how are you hoping the PC version is not the same? It's the same game minus the graphical differences.


----------



## semitope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopard2lx*
> 
> The tactical camera is completely optional. How is beating the game without using it a bad thing?
> And how are you hoping the PC version is not the same? It's the same game minus the graphical differences.


well, if the tactical gameplay is optional even at the hardest difficulty, something seems wrong in a DA game. That works if the game is designed around a single character, but DA seemed like it was more about controlling your party and exploiting their strengths to win. In tough fights you had to pause and plan. Without that, the other characters are just options for the player to take over.


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semitope*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Leopard2lx*
> 
> The tactical camera is completely optional. How is beating the game without using it a bad thing?
> And how are you hoping the PC version is not the same? It's the same game minus the graphical differences.
> 
> 
> 
> well, if the tactical gameplay is optional even at the hardest difficulty, something seems wrong in a DA game. That works if the game is designed around a single character, but DA seemed like it was more about controlling your party and exploiting their strengths to win. In tough fights you had to pause and plan. Without that, the other characters are just options for the player to take over.
Click to expand...

I'd rather it be an option tbh

I don't see an issue with you having a choice in how you play the game.....to me that just makes it better


----------



## semitope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sgt Bilko*
> 
> I'd rather it be an option tbh
> 
> I don't see an issue with you having a choice in how you play the game.....to me that just makes it better


to me you're doing something like excusing a game that is so easy you only need to use one button by saying you like the option of using any number of buttons you choose. It's a defect in design imo. But I realize that console gamers would have had a hard time with the game if not designed with them in mind.


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semitope*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Sgt Bilko*
> 
> I'd rather it be an option tbh
> 
> I don't see an issue with you having a choice in how you play the game.....to me that just makes it better
> 
> 
> 
> to me you're doing something like excusing a game that is so easy you only need to use one button by saying you like the option of using any number of buttons you choose. It's a defect in design imo. But I realize that console gamers would have had a hard time with the game if not designed with them in mind.
Click to expand...

All tactical view does imo is give you more time to assign tasks, ive barely used it atm.

I don't get the "one button" thing tbh...
if you think you can beat the game just with basic attacks then go ahead.


----------



## azanimefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semitope*
> 
> Still want to know if the DRM helped them accomplish what they wanted. I played it on PS4 and am hoping the PC version is not the same. Seemed like an action RPG more than I like. The guy said he beat it on nightmare without using tactical camera...


if he used the mage->EK subclass that's no impressive feat. EK is so broken there aren't words to describe it.


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semitope*
> 
> to me you're doing something like excusing a game that is so easy you only need to use one button by saying you like the option of using any number of buttons you choose. It's a defect in design imo. But I realize that console gamers would have had a hard time with the game if not designed with them in mind.


You do realize that Origins, which had a vastly superior tactics system, could literally be near auto-pilot even on Nightmare if you set up it up correctly?

Is that a defect in design? Should we blame console gamers for that too? Lol


----------



## semitope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> You do realize that Origins, which had a vastly superior tactics system, could literally be near auto-pilot even on Nightmare if you set up it up correctly?
> 
> Is that a defect in design? Should we blame console gamers for that too? Lol


set it up how? Game was hard>

Who blamed console gamers? At worst, I blame consoles.


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semitope*
> 
> set it up how? Game was hard>
> 
> Who blamed console gamers? At worst, I blame consoles.


You could set up the AI to behave based on certain conditions. It was a very sophisticated system. You could google some images of Origin's tactics menu just to give you an idea. Compared to Origins, Inquisition's tactics system is laughable.

Point is, there have always been ways to make the Dragon Age games easy even on the highest difficulty. Whether you want to exploit it is up to you.

If you're looking for Dark Souls type difficulty, this isn't that game.


----------



## Viscerous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> You could set up the AI to behave based on certain conditions. It was a very sophisticated system. You could google some images of Origin's tactics menu just to give you an idea. Compared to Origins, Inquisition's tactics system is laughable.
> 
> Point is, there have always been ways to make the Dragon Age games easy even on the highest difficulty. Whether you want to exploit it is up to you.
> 
> If you're looking for Dark Souls type difficulty, this isn't that game.


I would disagree with this actually. I would say that the difficulty of Dark Souls and Inquisition on nightmare are very similar if not a bit harder in Dragon Age. Both start out as a challenge as you get used to the game, but both become quite easy as you play more. The challenge of both games depends on skill builds. Towards the end of a lot of the Souls games I'm practically 3 shotting bosses and not losing a sliver of HP. In Inquisition I still have to use potions and pause occasionally on bosses. So much of the Souls difficulty hype comes from not being able to change difficulty. Many if not most games are harder than the Souls games if you actually increase the difficulty to the highest.


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Viscerous*
> 
> I would disagree with this actually. I would say that the difficulty of Dark Souls and Inquisition on nightmare are very similar if not a bit harder in Dragon Age. Both start out as a challenge as you get used to the game, but both become quite easy as you play more. The challenge of both games depends on skill builds. Towards the end of a lot of the Souls games I'm practically 3 shotting bosses and not losing a sliver of HP. In Inquisition I still have to use potions and pause occasionally on bosses. So much of the Souls difficulty hype comes from not being able to change difficulty. Many if not most games are harder than the Souls games if you actually increase the difficulty to the highest.


Are we talking NG+1-7 in DS? I'd say NG+0 is the tutorial. In DS2 NG+3 which is where I left off last time I played, bosses do not die anywhere near that quickly and even with full havels bosses can 2-3 shot me. Even with a maxed out 2h, hexes, etc, it takes awhile to kill. If you summon 2 people it gets even harder.


----------



## daviejams

Dark Souls is solid even on a new game









Buying this game tonight after work , never had time last night. Too busy playing ironically Dark Souls 2


----------



## Jaydev16

A pirate friend told me PES 15's been cracked. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD TELL ME ITS A LIE!


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jaydev16*
> 
> A pirate friend told me PES 15's been cracked. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD TELL ME ITS A LIE!


is PES 15 using Denuvo DRM?


----------



## Jaydev16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> is PES 15 using Denuvo DRM?


Oh, its FIFA that has Denuvo. Damn, still PES deserved it, and I'm sad its been cracked.


----------



## Raghar

Is it just me, or does have completely cracked Far Cry 4 three times as high sales?

At least people will not throw dirt on pirates.


----------



## John Shepard

Well looks like this drm thing is working so far.It'll probably get cracked eventually but it's going to take a long time.

Btw Fifa 15 and LOF still haven't been cracked.

In the long run we'll see whether this will truly effects sales.


----------



## Scorpion49

So I got bit by this DRM now, trying to troubleshoot a performance/graphics issue with the game, I moved the card back and forth between my two rigs and now I get this:


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> So I got bit by this DRM now, trying to troubleshoot a performance/graphics issue with the game, I moved the card back and forth between my two rigs and now I get this:


Too many computers? What the hell? It should be account tied, not computer tired...


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> So I got bit by this DRM now, trying to troubleshoot a performance/graphics issue with the game, I moved the card back and forth between my two rigs and now I get this:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> [/quote
> 
> 
> ]
> 
> I'd be pissed! Try contacting support? That is simply ridiculous.


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> So I got bit by this DRM now, trying to troubleshoot a performance/graphics issue with the game, I moved the card back and forth between my two rigs and now I get this:


That's Origin, not Denuvo.


----------



## Alvarez

LOL, Or]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion49*
> 
> So I got bit by this DRM now, trying to troubleshoot a performance/graphics issue with the game, I moved the card back and forth between my two rigs and now I get this:


While i have no intention to praise piracy, THIS is one of the reasons i don't care about pirates. You can't even install your game on different PCs of yours.

(I'd like to say that, I do have Steam games on both PC and i can install same game on both of them. this is just EA crap)


----------



## Twist86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amtbr*
> 
> Whats amusing about this thread is that most of the arguments are based around the assumption that this DRM is harmful or performance impacting. When nothing has been conclusively proven. I get the knee jerk reaction to DRM, but lets face it, most of you guys LOVE DRM aka Steam. When Steam does DRM its OK, because Steam can do no wrong. When others try to protect their IP, suddenly "Its time to buy a PS4." Suddenly you feel like a thief? Give me a break. Fatalistic arguments galore in this thread.
> 
> Its a simple solution, don't buy the games.


They pretty clearly stated that it does up to 5% hit on performance.....straight from the DRM creators mouth. I just wont buy the game until it's removed.....DRM only hurts the honest people as the pirates have already bypassed it on other titles this DRM is on....this game wont be any different.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Guys it worked. My friend tried to pirate the game and failed and bought the game for $80. EA Won. Now he only has HD 6870 and cant play the game lol .... Money well spend. The biggest problem with PC gaming.


----------



## iTurn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Guys it worked. My friend tried to pirate the game and failed and bought the game for $80. EA Won. Now he only has HD 6870 and cant play the game lol .... Money well spend. The biggest problem with PC gaming.


$80.00?

Edit: Ahh you're in Canada!


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Guys it worked. My friend tried to pirate the game and failed and bought the game for $80. EA Won. Now he only has HD 6870 and cant play the game lol .... Money well spend. The biggest problem with PC gaming.


How can he not play when the minimum requirements is a 4870?


----------



## iTurn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> How can he not play when the minimum requirements is a 4870?


Game is too pretty to be played on minimum


----------



## daviejams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> How can he not play when the minimum requirements is a 4870?


Maybe he only has a dual core CPU ? Don't think it runs on them

I bought it last night too , feels a bit like Skyrim or a mmo rather than a dragon age game. Pretty good and it does look lovely

Edit - I should add that I've not even noticed the DRM so I don't know what the fuss is about


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Guys it worked. My friend tried to pirate the game and failed and bought the game for $80. EA Won. Now he only has HD 6870 and cant play the game lol .... Money well spend. The biggest problem with PC gaming.


no buddy, you won.


----------



## Silent Scone

This thread makes me feel old. All these work shy live at homes coming out of the woodwork lol


----------



## The Source

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alvarez*
> 
> LOL, Or]
> While i have no intention to praise piracy, THIS is one of the reasons i don't care about pirates. You can't even install your game on different PCs of yours.
> 
> (I'd like to say that, I do have Steam games on both PC and i can install same game on both of them. this is just EA crap)


This is definitely an Origin issue. How does Origin know all these PC's are belong to the same person? I don't think it's unreasonable to have an account tied to a single machine. Otherwise people would abuse it. How does steam go about dealing with this?


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Source*
> 
> This is definitely an Origin issue. How does Origin know all these PC's are belong to the same person? I don't think it's unreasonable to have an account tied to a single machine. Otherwise people would abuse it. How does steam go about dealing with this?


I believe for steam, if you reinstall on a 'different' pc or reinstall steam on a fresh install, they will send you a verification email to the owners account. Without this verification code, you cannot install the game/steam.


----------



## The Source

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> I believe for steam, if you reinstall on a 'different' pc or reinstall steam on a fresh install, they will send you a verification email to the owners account. Without this verification code, you cannot install the game/steam.


So you can have two or more machines using the same account simultaneously?


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Source*
> 
> So you can have two or more machines using the same account simultaneously?


I havent tried two simultaneous accounts, only 1 at a time.


----------



## Xeio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Source*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> I believe for steam, if you reinstall on a 'different' pc or reinstall steam on a fresh install, they will send you a verification email to the owners account. Without this verification code, you cannot install the game/steam.
> 
> 
> 
> So you can have two or more machines using the same account simultaneously?
Click to expand...

If you log into a second computer, Steam will kick you off the first computer (not sure if it will kick you from games directly).

You can sort-of bypass this by setting the first computer to offline mode first, as long as you stay offline. I believe you can do something similar with Origin, though I don't know if DA:I specifically requires an internet connection to start the game up.


----------



## Defoler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xeio*
> 
> If you log into a second computer, Steam will kick you off the first computer (not sure if it will kick you from games directly).
> 
> You can sort-of bypass this by setting the first computer to offline mode first, as long as you stay offline. I believe you can do something similar with Origin, though I don't know if DA:I specifically requires an internet connection to start the game up.


If you are logging on both computers in the same network (as in on the gaming rig and on the HTPC at home for example), it will not kick you out, but actually connect both instances and allow you to stream from one computer to the next as well as control that game from the streamed one.
But you won't be able to run two instances of the same game. It will not allow this.


----------



## Alvarez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xeio*
> 
> If you log into a second computer, Steam will kick you off the first computer (not sure if it will kick you from games directly).
> 
> You can sort-of bypass this by setting the first computer to offline mode first, as long as you stay offline. I believe you can do something similar with Origin, though I don't know if DA:I specifically requires an internet connection to start the game up.


Correct. I have Civ V installed in both PCs and when i want to play it, well, i just play. Unlike Origin crap i dont have to contact with support to install a game, i simply download it from steam again to another PC), activate the pc if it's first download (steamguard)

That's it.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> How can he not play when the minimum requirements is a 4870?


He plays it with Medium and he said it looks very bad. He does have 2500K though.


----------



## Hotcarl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Guys it worked. My friend tried to pirate the game and failed and bought the game for $80. EA Won. Now he only has HD 6870 and cant play the game lol .... Money well spend. The biggest problem with PC gaming.


Then return it ? Origin will refund his money if he hasn't had it for very long


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hotcarl*
> 
> Then return it ? Origin will refund his money if he hasn't had it for very long


I dont think he bough it via Origin.


----------



## kx11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Guys it worked. My friend tried to pirate the game and failed and bought the game for $80. EA Won. Now he only has HD 6870 and cant play the game lol .... Money well spend. The biggest problem with PC gaming.


80$ ?

he needs to buy a key from somewhere else


----------



## JunkoXan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Guys it worked. My friend tried to pirate the game and failed and bought the game for $80. EA Won. Now he only has HD 6870 and cant play the game lol .... Money well spend. The biggest problem with PC gaming.


what I find odd is that my 7770 is around 6870 performance give or take and it plays DA:I around 40fps on medium at 1680x1050 with no AA (128-bit bus the reason for no AA). I don't see why the 6870 can't play it...


----------



## tconroy135

Playing ACU, which like DAI is mainly a Single Player Experience, it is more annoying with ACU that 75% of the gear in the game has to be obtained by playing its super dull Multiplayer.


----------



## 0m3g4

Why are people praising this? Wasn't it 2 years ago and people wanted nothing to do with drm. If this is an online drm where are the people with torches since DAI is single player?
If this drm has to talk to the internet, no thanks I will keep my money.

I want games I will be able to play once support gets dropped.


----------



## Anarion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *0m3g4*
> 
> Why are people praising this? Wasn't it 2 years ago and people wanted nothing to do with drm. If this is an online drm where are the people with torches since DAI is single player?
> If this drm has to talk to the internet, no thanks I will keep my money.
> 
> I want games I will be able to play once support gets dropped.


You can still play with Origin Offline no?


----------



## Jiiks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anarion*
> 
> You can still play with Origin Offline no?


You can indeed


----------



## VoodooFarm

Is Denuvo the DRM that kills SSD's?


----------



## Azuredragon1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VoodooFarm*
> 
> Is Denuvo the DRM that kills SSD's?


No, it has been proven that it doesn't do any harm to SSDs.


----------



## VoodooFarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azuredragon1*
> 
> No, it has been proven that it doesn't do any harm to SSDs.


do you have a source? Couldn't find anything confirming it doesnt harm them


----------



## Xeio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VoodooFarm*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Azuredragon1*
> 
> No, it has been proven that it doesn't do any harm to SSDs.
> 
> 
> 
> do you have a source? Couldn't find anything confirming it doesnt harm them
Click to expand...

Uh... do you have a source that says it _does_ cause harm to SSDs? Not sure how many refutations are going to exist for wild speculation.


----------



## Azuredragon1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VoodooFarm*
> 
> do you have a source? Couldn't find anything confirming it doesnt harm them


http://forum.bioware.com/topic/520802-denuvo-is-not-frying-your-hard-drive/


----------



## VoodooFarm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xeio*
> 
> Uh... do you have a source that says it _does_ cause harm to SSDs? Not sure how many refutations are going to exist for wild speculation.


There was a lot of talk about it harming ssd's by encrypting/decrypting game files as people were playing, something like writing 30gb every 45 minutes with what one user recorded. So because there was so much speculation on it, thats why I wanted to know if there was something confirming that it wasn't true. Is that enough of a reason to ask for a source? is that alright with you?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azuredragon1*
> 
> http://forum.bioware.com/topic/520802-denuvo-is-not-frying-your-hard-drive/


Thanks, first thing I've seen that hasn't been going crazy over it and calling it an ssd killer. Looks safe enough judging from that. I hope to hear more about it though


----------



## daviejams

One person said it was copying loads of files onto their hard disk but it was a load of made up nonsense

I've played it for 20 over the weekend, hard drives are just fine and I have not noticed any DRM effects


----------



## Wishmaker

Any encryption constantly writing on your SSD will reduce its lifespan. When I do not game, I work with tiffs / PSD`s eating 10 GB of RAM when they are open. Now a year ago, I made the mistake of putting my SCRATCH DISKS for CS5 MASTER on my Vertex 2 Drive and guess what? Constant writing on the driver broke it completely. After a fresh format and firmware updates, WEI was reporting a 3.0 performance on it. I could feel the drive was dead as performance was like running from a a Floppy.

For 6 months I am running two 840 PROS and I do not put any scratch disks on them. Now Dragon Age, surely, does not write the GB of data Master Collection does, but, rest assured there will be some wear and tear from it







.

On a closing note, no sane developer in their right mind would acknowledge that this DRM is harming SSDs. You need tangible proof and some traction from websites who are not in their pocket.


----------



## daviejams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wishmaker*
> 
> Any encryption constantly writing on your SSD will reduce its lifespan. When I do not game, I work with tiffs / PSD`s eating 10 GB of RAM when they are open. Now a year ago, I made the mistake of putting my SCRATCH DISKS for CS5 MASTER on my Vertex 2 Drive and guess what? Constant writing on the driver broke it completely. After a fresh format and firmware updates, WEI was reporting a 3.0 performance on it. I could feel the drive was dead as performance was like running from a a Floppy.
> 
> For 6 months I am running two 840 PROS and I do not put any scratch disks on them. Now Dragon Age, surely, does not write the GB of data Master Collection does, but, rest assured there will be some wear and tear from it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> On a closing note, no sane developer in their right mind would acknowledge that this DRM is harming SSDs. You need tangible proof and some traction from websites who are not in their pocket.


It's not doing that though , somebody on a forum made it up


----------



## Noviets

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daviejams*
> 
> It's not doing that though , somebody on a forum made it up


Can confirm

Had a 12MB/s Read for a split second when launching (Normal), then spent the rest of the game basically doing nothing. Nothing out of the oridnary at all.

It loads all entities when loading the zone, which is why the load times are a little longer than expected.

Absolutely loving being able to go in and out of big rooms/buildings/etc without having to load in and out of them.

I just wish the mouse movement wasnt so stuttery, having to rely oin the keyboard to look around get's a bit irritating


----------



## daviejams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Noviets*
> 
> Can confirm
> 
> Had a 12MB/s Read for a split second when launching (Normal), then spent the rest of the game basically doing nothing. Nothing out of the oridnary at all.
> 
> It loads all entities when loading the zone, which is why the load times are a little longer than expected.
> 
> Absolutely loving being able to go in and out of big rooms/buildings/etc without having to load in and out of them.
> 
> I just wish the mouse movement wasnt so stuttery, having to rely oin the keyboard to look around get's a bit irritating


The loading is a bit long , I've noticed that too. But as you say it's because it's loading in a whole level and it's not as long as say BF4 first match

Been using xbox control pad , works very well with that


----------



## digiadventures

According to 3dm piracy group, Denuvo has been broken, and they will publish the crack for Fifa 15, Lords of the fallen and Dragon age inquisition in a couple of days. If EA doesn't get them by then lol.
I have to say I am disappointed if true, this new drm didn't hold very long...


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *digiadventures*
> 
> . If EA doesn't get them by then lol.


what do you mean by that?


----------



## daviejams

hmm wait and see , might just be rubbish

Hope they have not cracked it as this piracy thing needs to stop


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *digiadventures*
> 
> According to 3dm piracy group, Denuvo has been broken, and they will publish the crack for Fifa 15, Lords of the fallen and Dragon age inquisition in a couple of days. If EA doesn't get that by then lol.
> I have to say I am disappointed if true, this new drm didn't hold very long...


I swear I heard this during the first week of release.

Until it happens it's just people looking for attention.


----------



## keikei

I have seen a lot of Inquistion torrents.


----------



## digiadventures

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> what do you mean by that?


Just joking...been thinking lately why doesnt big companies like EA put resources into tracking these hackers, and either paying them off or threatening them with jail or something.
Seems to me better strategy then DRM which is always broken. Thats where that comment comes from


----------



## daviejams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> I have seen a lot of Inquistion torrents.


All fake by the way


----------



## digiadventures

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> I swear I heard this during the first week of release.
> 
> Until it happens it's just people looking for attention.


Maybe, but news is from confirmed 3dm site, not from nobody on the internet. If they lied, they will lose all credibility in those cracker circles


----------



## Nonehxc

It hasn't been released yet, keikei. Those probably are just game files. As for Yvese opinion, the group that has cracked Denuvo has been the main driving force on the crcking scene for some years. Even past well respected scene groups(not all)have been found guilty of taking their programs and repackaging them as their own. If they say they've done it, it's done.


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nonehxc*
> 
> It hasn't been released yet, keikei. Those probably are just game files. As for Yvese opinion, the group that has cracked Denuvo has been the main driving force on the crcking scene for some years. Even past well respected scene groups(not all)have been found guilty of taking their programs and repackaging them as their own. If they say they've done it, it's done.


OK, thanks. I heard someone say, if the drm lasts more than a week, then its considered successful. Is that true?


----------



## daviejams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> OK, thanks. I heard someone say, if the drm lasts more than a week, then its considered successful. Is that true?


That is when a publisher will make their money on a game so I would yes


----------



## digiadventures

Websites have started reporting on the crack, here is the link from the same website that first reported about Dragon age using Denuvo

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/report-denuvo-drm-system-has-been-cracked/
Quote:


> 3DM has reported that it's been able to crack the latest DRM system, Denuvo, that was used in FIFA 15, Lords of the Fallen and Dragon Age: Inquisition.
> 
> Denuvo has been a great DRM system as it was able to protect FIFA 15 for two months and Lords of the Fallen for one whole month.


----------



## Fifth Horseman

crack appears to be up....most of the major big shots have their torrents up and working. From reading the comments though it is not perfect yet, a lot of people are having various issues running it, no doubt they will need to update the crack or patch it.


----------



## XAslanX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *digiadventures*
> 
> Websites have started reporting on the crack, here is the link from the same website that first reported about Dragon age using Denuvo
> 
> http://www.dsogaming.com/news/report-denuvo-drm-system-has-been-cracked/


Nice, this game may actually be worth picking up on sale now.


----------



## Somasonic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndroidVageta*
> 
> So when I borrow my friends copy from his console, play it for free, and complete it that's OK though, right? I mean, it's not illegal so it's perfect fine to you despite the dev's and pub's not getting a penny from me. That's so much different from just pirating a game, huh?


Without reading the EULA to be 100% sure I would be 99% sure that lending the game is breaking the licence agreement. If that's the case then you effectively did pirate the game.

Cheers.


----------



## keikei

I believe amazon has the game for $45 right now. Gotta love cyber monday!


----------



## Azuredragon1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> I believe amazon has the game for $45 right now. Gotta love cyber monday!


wow for 45 dollars, DAI is a steal, either way i don't regret paying 70 for this game.


----------



## tconroy135

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Somasonic*
> 
> Without reading the EULA to be 100% sure I would be 99% sure that lending the game is breaking the licence agreement. If that's the case then you effectively did pirate the game.
> 
> Cheers.


If that were the case then Gamestop et al couldn't resell the game as a used copy.

Only PC gamers are treated as if we are simply renting the game and of course people who buy digital copies of console games...


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tconroy135*
> 
> If that were the case then Gamestop et al couldn't resell the game as a used copy.
> 
> Only PC gamers are treated as if we are simply renting the game and of course people who buy digital copies of console games...


That's because there's a distinct lack of laws and regulations which keep the consumer protected on the digital front and publishers want it kept that way, publishers dont want consumers to have rights as that can infringe on shady business plans to make excessive, dishonest money.


----------



## semitope

people saying its been cracked

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/report-denuvo-drm-system-has-been-cracked/

We shall see. Some claims that the drm did nothing for sales of the games involved. Need hard numbers though.

Hmph... looks like I am late to post that. Well, I still win...


----------



## th3illusiveman

i don't get it.. Bioware make a great game with a decent storyline, amazing gameplay and almost 100 hours worth of content all while running great on most hardware and looking absolutely amazing and people still want to pirate it? What does it take to earn your money then? I get why you would do it for games like Glitchy creed and most of the garbage ports from Ubisoft but PC gamers gotta show support to the devs that port good games right.


----------



## semitope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> i don't get it.. Bioware make a great game with a decent storyline, amazing gameplay and almost 100 hours worth of content all while running great on most hardware and looking absolutely amazing and people still want to pirate it? What does it take to earn your money then? I get why you would do it for games like Glitchy creed and most of the garbage ports from Ubisoft but PC gamers gotta show support to the devs that port good games right.


I have yet to see if its good and worth it. Got my reservations


----------



## amtbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semitope*
> 
> I have yet to see if its good and worth it. Got my reservations


So what is going to tip the boat, given that there are all kinds of glowing reviews out there. The ability to pirate it?


----------



## XAslanX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semitope*
> 
> I have yet to see if its good and worth it. Got my reservations


Ditto, after the mess that was DA 2 and ruining the ME trilogy with ME3 I have my reservations about any and all future Bioware games.


----------



## Deadboy90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XAslanX*
> 
> Ditto, after the mess that was DA 2 and ruining the ME trilogy with ME3 I have my reservations about any and all future Bioware games.


SMH, DA2 and ME3 were good and great games respectively. And im playing Inquisition now and I love it like I do all Bioware games.


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XAslanX*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *semitope*
> 
> I have yet to see if its good and worth it. Got my reservations
> 
> 
> 
> Ditto, after the mess that was DA 2 and ruining the ME trilogy with ME3 I have my reservations about any and all future Bioware games.
Click to expand...

I actually liked DA2 (Characters mainly) and i loved ME3......I had no issues forking out for DA:I and even bought my wife a copy so we could play the MP.

This is a fantastic game and i have 0 regrets buying it


----------



## curly haired boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> i don't get it.. Bioware make a great game with a decent storyline, amazing gameplay and almost 100 hours worth of content all while running great on most hardware and looking absolutely amazing and people still want to pirate it? What does it take to earn your money then? I get why you would do it for games like Glitchy creed and most of the garbage ports from Ubisoft but PC gamers gotta show support to the devs that port good games right.


i was gonna say that buying a PC game is an irreversible decision, you can't return it

then i remembered that you _CAN actually return EA games on Origin_

so yeah, even the 'try before losing $60' argument doesn't hold water anymore....


----------



## semitope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amtbr*
> 
> So what is going to tip the boat, given that there are all kinds of glowing reviews out there. The ability to pirate it?


That would help. Like I said, played it a little on the ps4 and was disappointed. Still need to check the game myself

I haven't even gone on to considering dealing with origin store. Right now I am only getting the EU store with EU prices. Since forever really even with US VPNs and proxies. Dumb but I'd be buying a CDkey most likely. Easier than figuring that mess out.


----------



## Sgt Bilko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> i don't get it.. Bioware make a great game with a decent storyline, amazing gameplay and almost 100 hours worth of content all while running great on most hardware and looking absolutely amazing and people still want to pirate it? What does it take to earn your money then? I get why you would do it for games like Glitchy creed and most of the garbage ports from Ubisoft but PC gamers gotta show support to the devs that port good games right.
> 
> 
> 
> i was gonna say that buying a PC game is an irreversible decision, you can't return it
> 
> then i remembered that you _CAN actually return EA games on Origin_
> 
> so yeah, even the 'try before losing $60' argument doesn't hold water anymore....
Click to expand...

Actually i bought Watch_Dogs on Origin and got a full refund for it.......

So long as it has the little "Origin Great Game Guarantee" badge you can refund it if you wish


----------



## Deadboy90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sgt Bilko*
> 
> I actually liked DA2 (Characters mainly) and i loved ME3......I had no issues forking out for DA:I and even bought my wife a copy so we could play the MP.
> 
> This is a fantastic game and i have 0 regrets buying it


*Bro fist bump*


----------



## Lord Xeb

I am killing dragons. The DRM used in this game isn't causing me any issues.


----------



## dantoddd

I for one welcomed denuvo. It gave us a chance to see how well a game would sell without the influence of piracy. We can now get a better idea of the damage caused by piracy.


----------



## Somasonic

Me too. I want to live in the fairytale land where piracy is stopped, sales go up, quality goes up and prices come down. For now I'll just have to dream


----------



## FallenFaux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dantoddd*
> 
> I for one welcomed denuvo. It gave us a chance to see how well a game would sell without the influence of piracy. We can now get a better idea of the damage caused by piracy.


Not really, It's impossible to know how well a game would sell both with and without piracy since we can't really travel back and time and measure the opposite effect. Those people I know that prefer to pirate games are just waiting for the crack, they never have any intention of purchasing the game.


----------



## Cheezman

I'm pretty sure this guy's problem is because of the DRM: http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=440&threadid=181655&enterthread=y


----------



## SeanPoe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dantoddd*
> 
> I for one welcomed denuvo. It gave us a chance to see how well a game would sell without the influence of piracy. We can now get a better idea of the damage caused by piracy.


This isn't really true. There are people that boycot games with 'draconian' DRM or other obtrusive anti-piracy measures and refuse to buy them for that reason alone. This is especially true with the rumors going around about how denuvo drastically reduces FPS and causes other issues (e.g., crashing, freezing) which makes people even more likely to refuse to buy the game. So it wouldn't shock me to find out that Inquisition has lower-overall sales because of denuvo.


----------



## tconroy135

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Somasonic*
> 
> Me too. I want to live in the fairytale land where piracy is stopped, sales go up, quality goes up and prices come down. For now I'll just have to dream


Quality never goes up and price never comes down, profits only increase.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SeanPoe*
> 
> This isn't really true. There are people that boycot games with 'draconian' DRM or other obtrusive anti-piracy measures and refuse to buy them for that reason alone. This is especially true with the rumors going around about how denuvo drastically reduces FPS and causes other issues (e.g., crashing, freezing) which makes people even more likely to refuse to buy the game. So it wouldn't shock me to find out that Inquisition has lower-overall sales because of denuvo.


Nothing screams smart like bashing your hand with a hammer to stop that itching sensation!


----------



## digiadventures

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> i don't get it.. Bioware make a great game with a decent storyline, amazing gameplay and almost 100 hours worth of content all while running great on most hardware and looking absolutely amazing and people still want to pirate it? What does it take to earn your money then? I get why you would do it for games like Glitchy creed and most of the garbage ports from Ubisoft but PC gamers gotta show support to the devs that port good games right.


Most people who pirate it can't afford to buy it. They either live in poor third world countries or are kids whose mummy or daddy simply refuse to buy them games.
Only small number of pirates will actually buy the game when it's not available on torrent sites. Those are people who can afford it, but are thinking why should I buy when its free.
Those people are despicable, but they are minority.
This is the fact which a lot of people and some game companies / publishers doesn't seem to understand for some reason.
Piracy only hurt maybe 10-15 % of sales, those 10-15 % are those despicable people.
Rest are simply NOT LOST SALES. They will not buy the game even if it's NEVER cracked. They simple can't buy it, even if they wanted it.

Denuvo proved this exact point. DA:I sales number are not astonishing, numbers are pretty much the expected, in other words same as if crack was available from day one.


----------



## HarryPearce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *digiadventures*
> 
> Piracy only hurt maybe 10-15 % of sales


Source?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *digiadventures*
> 
> Those are people who can afford it, but are thinking why should I buy when its free.
> Those people are despicable, but they are minority


Then there are people who simply won't buy inferior products. Shame on them. DA2 vs DA1?

Also,

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/denuvo-drm-system-reportedly-cracked.html

Pirates once more killed a great game. It's all their fault. This is why we can't have nice things. like ACU and FC4 and DA2. Oh, wait...


----------



## semitope

I wonder how much the DRM cost EA to implement. Would be funny if it results in a net loss.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *digiadventures*
> 
> Most people who pirate it can't afford to buy it. They either live in poor third world countries or are kids whose mummy or daddy simply refuse to buy them games.
> Only small number of pirates will actually buy the game when it's not available on torrent sites. Those are people who can afford it, but are thinking why should I buy when its free.
> Those people are despicable, but they are minority.
> This is the fact which a lot of people and some game companies / publishers doesn't seem to understand for some reason.
> Piracy only hurt maybe 10-15 % of sales, those 10-15 % are those despicable people.
> Rest are simply NOT LOST SALES. They will not buy the game even if it's NEVER cracked. They simple can't buy it, even if they wanted it.
> 
> Denuvo proved this exact point. DA:I sales number are not astonishing, numbers are pretty much the expected, in other words same as if crack was available from day one.


Maybe, but i've seen more pirates running better than average hardware more than people running obsolete hardware.


----------



## semitope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> Maybe, but i've seen more pirates running better than average hardware more than people running obsolete hardware.


yeah, the value of the hardware makes more sense than each individual piece of software. A PC does more than a game and it takes just 10 games at $60 to reach the value of a $600 PC that you can use for everything besides gaming. etc. So its really between a fancy PC for a few years and a few games


----------



## digiadventures

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarryPearce*
> 
> Source?


There is no source, just logic.
DA:I sold around 1 million units first week.
http://www.vgchartz.com/article/252306/dragon-age-inquisition-sells-114m-units-worldwide-first-week-ps4-xbox-one-x360-ps3-pc/
Now I remember that these are pretty much the same numbers as DA2 and DA:O had.
How is this posible when cracks were available for both previous dragon age games from the launch day.
Also, Far Cry 4 which is also recently released and had crack for it available day before it was released seems to be selling BETTER then uncracked DA:I in UK
http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/gta_5/news/uk_video_game_chart_gta_5_is_the_uks_no_1_ahead_of_far_cry_4.html

So what is logical conclusion ? Its either that piracy has zero effect on sales, or very minor effect like 10-15% I mentioned.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HarryPearce*
> Then there are people who simply won't buy inferior products. Shame on them. DA2 vs DA1?


If you think product is inferior and is not worth your money, then you should not play it for free, right ?


----------



## digiadventures

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> Maybe, but i've seen more pirates running better than average hardware more than people running obsolete hardware.


It depends what do you mean by better then avarage. Avarage is 500-600 dollars pc which is minimum for gaming. People buy this once, and not just for gaming. On the other hand, I would certanly agree that people with 2000 dollars pc can afford to buy games. If they still pirate, they will buy the game if they can't pirate it. But like I said, they are minority


----------



## Fifth Horseman

I had no intentions of buying dragon age and i had not intentions of going out and buying it whether it was cracked or not. regardless now that it is cracked i still have no intentions of getting it.

Most of these pirates were never going to buy these games no matter what, so i have no idea while these companies want to waste time and money on drm. Then these same companies play the blame game and say that the pc platform is only pirates. No your sales are low because you keep releasing terrible console ports with no optimization.

The bottom line here though is, a company came out and said this is a perfect drm tool and it can not be broken, someone comes along a week and a half later and breaks their project they spent so much time on. There are no absolutes.


----------



## XAslanX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fifth Horseman*
> 
> I had no intentions of buying dragon age and i had not intentions of going out and buying it whether it was cracked or not. regardless now that it is cracked i still have no intentions of getting it.
> 
> Most of these pirates were never going to buy these games no matter what, so i have no idea while these companies want to waste time and money on drm. Then these same companies play the blame game and say that the pc platform is only pirates. No your sales are low because you keep releasing terrible console ports with no optimization.
> 
> The bottom line here though is, a company came out and said this is a perfect drm tool and it can not be broken, someone comes along a week and a half later and breaks their project they spent so much time on. There are no absolutes.


Yep, pretty much wasted money that could have been used to produce a better quality game, hope it bites them in the ass. Anything that is man made can be cracked given the amount of effort and dedication of these groups, it's a waste of everybody's time and money, consumers included.


----------



## keikei

^Vegetta got some mad skills there!


----------



## Xeio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fifth Horseman*
> 
> Most of these pirates were never going to buy these games no matter what, so i have no idea while these companies want to waste time and money on drm. Then these same companies play the blame game and say that the pc platform is only pirates. No your sales are low because you keep releasing terrible console ports with no optimization.


Most isn't all though. There are certainly some portion of users out there that pirate just to save money too.

EA and other devs/publishers probably do the math all the time, but any DRM solution that survives 2+ weeks has almost certainly paid for itself. Game sales are very front loaded. Every day the game can't be pirated early in its life is valuable to them.


----------



## Raghar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *digiadventures*
> 
> If you think product is inferior and is not worth your money, then you should not play it for free, right ?


Why not? Look at it as a sort of public protest.
Or perhaps he's playing because he's a valid target for a charity, and either he didn't get anything, or he thinks forcing charity to pay for games would be amoral.
Or he might simply think about it just as a confirmation it's really that bad.

Well, considering Alice soft released one of theirs old games as a freeware, it's actually quite strong contender with DA:I, 21 year + only of course, people might play something more interesting for free legally and boycott mediocrity. I actually wonder why DA:I isn't at least as original as the previously mentioned game.


----------



## Deadboy90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dantoddd*
> 
> I for one welcomed denuvo. It gave us a chance to see how well a game would sell without the influence of piracy. We can now get a better idea of the damage caused by piracy.


I for one welcome our new Denuvo overlords.

Sorry couldnt resist.


----------



## c0nnection

According to some "forum", this news is hogwash. I'm glad it is. I've been enjoying the whining and squirming by freeloading pirates who can't play Dragon Age Inquisition. It seems like not many are willing to buy it yet as they have Far Cry 4 as their time killer.


----------



## motsm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *c0nnection*
> 
> According to some "forum", this news is hogwash. I'm glad it is. I've been enjoying the whining and squirming by freeloading pirates who can't play Dragon Age Inquisition. It seems like not many are willing to buy it yet as they have Far Cry 4 as their time killer.


Not everyone who dislikes DRM is a pirate. I hate the idea of Denuvo, Steam, Origin, UPlay, and pretty much any DRM that came before those. With DAI having two forms of DRM; No thank you, I'll buy something else.


----------



## tconroy135

repeat


----------



## Deadboy90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *motsm*
> 
> Not everyone who dislikes DRM is a pirate. I hate the idea of Denuvo, Steam, Origin, UPlay, and pretty much any DRM that came before those. With DAI having two forms of DRM; No thank you, I'll buy something else.


I just bypassed all of it and got it for PS4.


----------



## Jaydev16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deadboy90*
> 
> I just bypassed all of it and got it for PS4.


The way they intended for it to be played.


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deadboy90*
> 
> I just bypassed all of it and got it for PS4.


Any lag on the console version?


----------



## Deadboy90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> Any lag on the console version?


Nothing serious, maybe a bit here and there. Its 30fps though but i really couldnt care less about that. Im about 15-20 hours in and still in the area around redcliffe.







. So many hours shall be dumped into this game...


----------



## semitope

Those 3dm guys definitely have something going on. Apparently beta testing

http://bbs.3dmgame.com/thread-4544696-1-1.html


----------



## Kyoujin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semitope*
> 
> Those 3dm guys definitely have something going on. Apparently beta testing
> 
> http://bbs.3dmgame.com/thread-4544696-1-1.html


Neat. Looking through their thread...seems like they think they're a week away from a release. I have no interest in playing DA:I (DA2 killed my interest) but I'd love to see this obnoxious DRM put down before it can spread further. Can't wait to see what happens.


----------



## Just a nickname

*breaking news*

Crack working for intels cpus. Official crack will come once they can make it work for amds cpus too.

The DRM did not help sales, in fact every games with denuvo sold no more aor even less than comparable games (previous DA by example).

This system is just hurting the one buying the game.


----------



## daviejams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Just a nickname*
> 
> *breaking news*
> 
> Crack working for intels cpus. Official crack will come once they can make it work for amds cpus too.
> 
> The DRM did not help sales, in fact every games with denuvo sold no more aor even less than comparable games (previous DA by example).
> 
> This system is just hurting the one buying the game.


It's not hurting anyone you don't notice it at all , we have been through this. And if anyone mentions SSD's breaking I will go into a rage

Poor news this , hope it's a bag of nonsense though


----------



## Just a nickname

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daviejams*
> 
> It's not hurting anyone you don't notice it at all , we have been through this. And if anyone mentions SSD's breaking I will go into a rage
> 
> Poor news this , hope it's a bag of nonsense though


How is it not hurting anyone? I can't play single player drm games with no internet. This is silly.


----------



## daviejams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Just a nickname*
> 
> How is it not hurting anyone? I can't play single player drm games with no internet. This is silly.


I don't see why that is the DRM's fault ? The game states as it's requirements that you need an internet connection

If you never had internet or have poor internet then you should not buy this game


----------



## yannickhk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daviejams*
> 
> It's not hurting anyone you don't notice it at all , we have been through this. And if anyone mentions SSD's breaking I will go into a rage
> 
> Poor news this , hope it's a bag of nonsense though


Nope, not non sense. Wonder how much they invested in this DRM. Lasted a whole month lol

Oh and skidrow cracked it too apparently


----------



## daviejams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yannickhk*
> 
> Nope, not non sense. Wonder how much they invested in this DRM. Lasted a whole month lol
> 
> Oh and skidrow cracked it too apparently


a month is better than it being cracked before it's out , still disappointing though


----------



## Xeio

I wonder if we'll see any pink scorpion equivalents later on.


----------



## Gunderman456

Anyone that states DRM is not hurting anyone is a shill.

I'm so fed up, that I'm revisiting older games that I've never played before. They have no DRM, are complete and refreshingly not dumbed down.

Only company that gets my money these days is GOG.com and CDProject Red.

The others can go climb a pole.


----------



## Just a nickname

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daviejams*
> 
> Personally I could not give a crap if it requires internet or not


It's ok you have your own opinion.


----------



## digiadventures

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Just a nickname*
> 
> How is it not hurting anyone? I can't play single player drm games with no internet. This is silly.


First, Denuvo anti temper is not requiring internet connection, it was designed to protect exe file from being modified, and is doing this completely offline.
Second, DA:I is offline game, it doesn't require constant internet connection to play such as for example Diablo 3.
So I dont see why are you complaining ? You will need to activate your cd key once on Origin so it will add the game to your library, but Origin does have offline mode same as Steam.


----------



## Xeio

I'm pretty sure you would need internet access to play the game with anything but a default world state. All the saves and information from previous games get loaded from Dragon Age Keep.


----------



## Herstal

DAI works fine without an internet connection, I played it offline for a bit when my modem died a few days ago.


----------



## Just a nickname

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *digiadventures*
> 
> First, Denuvo anti temper is not requiring internet connection, it was designed to protect exe file from being modified, and is doing this completely offline.
> Second, DA:I is offline game, it doesn't require constant internet connection to play such as for example Diablo 3.
> So I dont see why are you complaining ? You will need to activate your cd key once on Origin so it will add the game to your library, but Origin does have offline mode same as Steam.


Denuvo right but "real" drm nope. By the way, you still need to log-in and for that you need internutz.


----------



## daviejams

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Herstal*
> 
> DAI works fine without an internet connection, I played it offline for a bit when my modem died a few days ago.


It needs to connect to origin on start up does it not ?


----------



## Xeio

Yea, I probably should have said "start" a game in anything but the default world state.







Obviously it doesn't require constant online or anything like that.


----------



## Xeio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daviejams*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Herstal*
> 
> DAI works fine without an internet connection, I played it offline for a bit when my modem died a few days ago.
> 
> 
> 
> It needs to connect to origin on start up does it not ?
Click to expand...

You can run Origin in offline mode similar to Steam.

EDIT: Not sure how I managed to double post like that... forums being wonky, was pretty sure the first one didn't go through at all.


----------



## semitope

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daviejams*
> 
> It's not hurting anyone you don't notice it at all , we have been through this. And if anyone mentions SSD's breaking I will go into a rage
> 
> Poor news this , hope it's a bag of nonsense though


it breaks ssds though. proven









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daviejams*
> 
> The game's min requirements lists an internet connection. You are trying to play the game below min requirements


probably would sell more if that wasn't part of it. Some people literally can only play games that are strictly how it used to be in the past. Single player fully contained offline.


----------



## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semitope*
> 
> it breaks ssds though. proven


No it doesn't


----------



## -iceblade^

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xeio*
> 
> I wonder if we'll see any pink scorpion equivalents later on.


LOL that was great!


----------



## PhilWrir

Lets get this back to being professional and respectful

We can discuss the impact the DRM has on the game, but im sick of seeing it cross the line into attacking eachother over differences in philosophy or priority

Some people are concerned about the impact DRM has in principal, some are concerned about the impact it has on performance, and some arent bothered.

If you cant deal with people who hold different viewpoints than you on this in a respectful way, its probably best to avoid discussing it with them at all.


----------



## Flames21891

I still don't understand the people that turn their nose up at DRM just for being DRM.

The intrusive DRM that stops people from actually playing the game (UPlay, SecuROM activation limits, GFWL etc.) I completely understand. Something like Denuvo that sits quietly in a corner and doesn't bother people? I don't get it. People are getting riled up simply for the sake of hearing themselves talk.

DRM itself is not anti-consumer, it's the way it's implemented. If there were reports of Denuvo locking paying customers out of their game, then I would be right there with everyone on the hate train. But seeing as how it managed to keep the game from getting cracked for a whole month, and didn't screw over paying customers in the process, I don't see any reason to hate it unless you're a pirate.


----------



## Achromatis

The only problems I have with Denuvo specificallly are possible performance impacts, and compatibility issues - it just adds yet another thing into already rushed and buggy software. But I much rather just have this type of DRM over Steam or Origin, not that those "services" are ever going away now.

(Aside from their servers being trash though I much rather Origin over Steam, since it actually lets me play offline after a game installs and doesn't force me to update games.)


----------



## tubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *digiadventures*
> 
> First, Denuvo anti temper is not requiring internet connection, it was designed to protect exe file from being modified, and is doing this completely offline.
> Second, DA:I is offline game, it doesn't require constant internet connection to play such as for example Diablo 3.
> So I dont see why are you complaining ? You will need to activate your cd key once on Origin so it will add the game to your library, but Origin does have offline mode same as Steam.


Thanks! I wish I was told so earlier. Got the PS4 version instead.

Then again, my 5870 2GB + 2500K might not look and perform as well as the PS4 version.

Will probably still buy DA:I for PC when it hits $ 30 or lower. Glad to know I'll be able to play it offline w/o cracks.


----------



## sugalumps

And it has officialy been cracked and working, you can never stop them


----------



## c0nnection

No it hasn't. Good job bumping up a thread to spread misinformation.

Edit:

You are right.


----------



## sugalumps

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *c0nnection*
> 
> No it hasn't. Good job bumping up a thread to spread misinformation.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> You are right.


Hahahah that edit. Why would I say otherwise unless I checked first. Was cracked and uploaded earlier today.


----------



## Alvarez

To be precise, it's not completely cracked. DRM and so Denuvo is there, what the group had released is an emulator to bypass the denuvo and it's different according to CPU configuration of user. Other groups will probably make an universal crack for every possible combination.


----------



## Nonehxc

It's a loader. Everything it's still protected, it just tells the protection that you're a gentleman and a scholar and so you must be allowed to play. Probably has to do with CPUID...

Despite being a legit owner, I'm genuinely interested(as always) in cracking if it brings more performance or less hassle. Thank lord I'm halfway in my "official" save transfer walkthrough thorugh Dragon Age 2. I will give Bioware and 3DM time to churn out some tassty patches.


----------



## kckyle

annnnnnd it's cracked


----------



## BigMack70

I've been looking forward to playing this game. Glad to see it's cracked on sale for $40 on Amazon.


----------



## kckyle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigMack70*
> 
> I've been looking forward to playing this game. Glad to see it's cracked on sale for $40 on Amazon.


hahahaha


----------



## flowfaster

Diablo 3 what?


----------



## atomicmew

Game came out on the 18th of November. That's less than a month ;o

The DRM arms race continues to amaze me.


----------



## tconroy135

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atomicmew*
> 
> Game came out on the 18th of November. That's less than a month ;o
> 
> The DRM arms race continues to amaze me.


It worked for a long time on FIFA 15 which is definitely a heavily pirated game.


----------



## kckyle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atomicmew*
> 
> Game came out on the 18th of November. That's less than a month ;o
> 
> The DRM arms race continues to amaze me.


i'm actually quite impressed by these groups, it's really a modern day david vs Goliath, here you have couple of guys in russia or eastern europe or china exploiting and cracking drm that million dollar companies spend hundreds of thousands if not millions to develop. and the irony is it's the customers who are paying for the product that gets the short end of the stick.


----------



## sugalumps

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kckyle*
> 
> i'm actually quite impressed by these groups, it's really a modern day david vs Goliath, here you have couple of guys in russia or eastern europe or china exploiting and cracking drm that million dollar companies spend hundreds of thousands if not millions to develop. and the irony is it's the customers who are paying for the product that gets the short end of the stick.


Yup there are a good few games out there where it actualy runs better for the cracked versions, they also just double click the exe and they are off in game while we have to go through uplay and see all this store page crap etc

It's also a smaller dl(think this is the case) as they cut localization and tacked on mp out, please stop with drm. At best you delay them a few weeks but you make the millions that bought it suffer with it forever while the few thousand pirates are not affected in the end.


----------



## darealist

Glad to see pirates can finally enjoy this game with the rest of the world. A great xmas present indeed.


----------



## TwilightEscape

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugalumps*
> 
> Yup there are a good few games out there where it actualy runs better for the cracked versions, they also just double click the exe and they are off in game while we have to go through uplay and see all this store page crap etc
> 
> It's also a smaller dl(think this is the case) as they cut localization and tacked on mp out, please stop with drm. At best you delay them a few weeks but you make the millions that bought it suffer with it forever while the few thousand pirates are not affected in the end.


There's quite a few that supposedly run better cracked than legitimate. There has even been more than one occasion where a company has used a cracked file as an official patch.
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2008/07/21/ubisoft-uses-reloaded-crack-as-patch/1

While I don't mind DRM the ones that make me load up a ton of junk before it even starts is a nuisance. Redownloaded Might and Magic VI since I stopped playing it after some time and now I remember why. Has to load up Uplay and then it ends up crashing after a short period. Meanwhile another copy obtained elsewhere works flawlessly. It's just pathetic that a broken down piece of software runs better than the original that's been infected with intrusive DRM.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Let's not start with cracks. Not TOS-compliant. Closed.


----------

