# Delidding: a few observations..



## The Pook

I've ran delided CPUs for well over a year (and mllrkllr88 has three of them now ) without any issues of temps creeping up.


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## Shawnb99

I just sent mine out to be delidded, too scared to do it myself and this was my biggest concern. 

I’ll definitely will be keeping an eye on this

After having to redo it did you notice how the LM looked, did it indicate anything that could point to the issue?


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## mr2cam

I have been delidded going on a year now, no issues at all, temp hasn't changed one bit. I believe Gamers Nexus did a year long test on liquid metal and found to only lose like 1c in cooling.


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## Thingamajig

Here's my delidded processor:

I did this about 3/4 months ago, and i've just had to do the delid again because temps started to creep up to Tjunction limits.

After the delid, i got my 20c headroom back.

I'm expecting to have to redo the delid again in another 2+ months down the line, this is now the third time i've done so.


I've been keeping a log of my temperatures during idle and stress testing in this machine, i do a test immediately after delidding then again with a few weeks intervals, jotting down ambient temps as i go. (Dust is also not a factor as the machine is often very clean between checks)

Temperatures noticably increase, under the same conditions, over time, to the point of tjunction which is pretty much were i was at before i delidded in the first place.

Re-doing the delid fixes this problem straight away.



Shawnb99 said:


> I just sent mine out to be delidded, too scared to do it myself and this was my biggest concern.
> 
> I’ll definitely will be keeping an eye on this
> 
> After having to redo it did you notice how the LM looked, did it indicate anything that could point to the issue?


Nothing at all no. I do re-use the liquid metal by sucking it back into the syringe and i'm very meticulous as i undergo this whole delidding process.


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## Thingamajig

Sorry to double post but i think the questions i'll ask here are worthy of it:

With your applications of Liquid Metal, do you guys spread the TIM across the die in a thin, smooth coating? This is how i apply liquid metal. I also ensure it's on it thick enough so the surface of the TIM is smooth. No odd dimples or bumps on it's surface. 

When i put the IHS on, i do it entirely in one motion; Drop it squarely in place on top, then put pressure on for the sealant to set (I use the delidding tool for this and leave it for an hour), avoiding at all costs moving it once the IHS has made contact with the die/LM. If i screw up and the IHS has already made contact with the die, i redo the entire process again.

Think i could be applying too much? not enough? I'm at a loss here. What i do know is, it's deffo the delid. I just can't decipher if it's my techinque, if i'm just unlucky or if this is actually a problem alot of us arn't aware of.


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## skupples

I don't see what TIM you're using.

I'd recommend changing it to CLU or Kryonaut.

oh... i see... You didn't state which, just that its LM.

You're re-using it? Maybe that's the problem? Maybe you got a bad batch? 

Since already on LM... switch to a different brand of LM. I've been using Liquid ULTRA (not pro) for ages now, and never have this problem. 

I'd love to delid my 9700k, specially now that you can get those fancy little full copper IHSs.


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## Thingamajig

skupples said:


> I don't see what TIM you're using.
> 
> I'd recommend changing it to CLU or Kryonaut.
> 
> oh... i see... You didn't state which, just that its LM.
> 
> You're re-using it? Maybe that's the problem? Maybe you got a bad batch?
> 
> Since already on LM... switch to a different brand of LM. I've been using Liquid ULTRA (not pro) for ages now, and never have this problem.
> 
> I'd love to delid my 9700k, specially now that you can get those fancy little full copper IHSs.


I use Thermal grizzly Liquid metal and Thermal Grizzly thermal paste. Paste for IHS>Heatsink, LM for Die>IHS


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## ThrashZone

Hi,
Didn't have my redo of a silicon lottery delid go south yet 
Theirs lasted about 10 months before it fell off a cliff on quite a few cores though they leave the Intel sealant and use a boat load of LM to fill the void so it just dropped out eventually.

Not a huge deal heating gun and a couple razor blades to loosen and cut the silicone they used 
Bummer was they used a lot of silicone so it was fun to get it loose and apart.


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## skupples

I'd try Cool Labs Liquid ULTRA (not pro) or Kryonaut.

I only have experience with CLU, and I've never noticed any sort of perf. loss, up to two years.

hey you're right! Look at that... the stuff literally melted off to the bottom! That's crazy. I've never seen CLU do that.


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## ThrashZone

skupples said:


> I'd try Cool Labs Liquid ULTRA (not pro) or Kryonaut.
> 
> I only have experience with CLU, and I've never noticed any sort of perf. loss, up to two years.
> 
> *hey you're right! Look at that... the stuff literally melted off to the bottom! That's crazy. I've never seen CLU do that*.


Hi,
Referring to me ?
The LM build up was caused when flipping it off 
That is actually the side of the cpu with the puddle 
But the middle on both cap and chip looks like very little LM was on it anymore pretty much why I believe the cores near the center were crazy hot others cool :/


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## white owl

I never realized SL did such a horrid job delidding. That looks horrible.

My 4690k ran about 3 years under LM, I redid it after that only to find no improvement at all so one application is good for over 3 years. I'd imagine it would last longer than the CPU if it were done right.


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## UltraMega

What were your temps right after delidding and what are they now? What are the actual numbers?


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## white owl

UltraMega said:


> What were your temps right after delidding and what are they now? What are the actual numbers?


Me? OP? ThrashZone?


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## UltraMega

white owl said:


> Me? OP? ThrashZone?


I'm not sure what you mean by this but nowhere in this thread are the actual temperatures stated unless I am blind.

Edit: Sorry I didn't get what you were saying because I thought it was super obvious that I was asking the OP since he never said the temps. It didn't even occur to me that you would think I was asking someone else. I must be tired.


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## 66racer

I have done a lot of delids and have not had temps creep up over time, I use Coollabs liquid pro. I apply a nice layer on the die, and an oversize layer on the IHS, then reseal but only put 4-6 dots of silicone on the IHS before it goes into the reseal jig. I use rockitcool's kit, and place a USD quarter on top of the IHS before clamping down the too. On the HEDT CPU I use a USD dollar coin. 

probably have done over 200 delids in the past few years. My own personal CPU have been delidded too, no issues. I am wondering if there is not enough LM being used? The copper IHS will absorb some LM but the intel one that is still nickel plated shouldnt.


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## Thingamajig

UltraMega said:


> What were your temps right after delidding and what are they now? What are the actual numbers?


I've a 7700k, overlocked to 4.8Ghz, in an ITX rig (So expect higher than normal temps). It's watercooled and shares the same loop as a mini 1070 GPU.

I run a stress test on the CPU only - a custom test thats listed in a 7700k owners club thread on this very site.

After a successful delid, load temperatures on the CPU max at around 86c. Water temperatures at this point peak at 39c. I start these tests when i've got an ambient room temperature of 22-23c

After a few months, and i replicate this whole test, my CPU max temperature climbs up, water temperatures drop slightly. The last time I ran this test, temperatures were in the 98-101c range.


This has happend on three seperate occasions in the past and each time a delid/reseal fixed things and bought CPU temps back down to acceptable ranges.




66racer said:


> I am wondering if there is not enough LM being used? The copper IHS will absorb some LM but the intel one that is still nickel plated shouldnt.



I had no idea the copper could absorb some of the compound - makes sense considering the staining. Probably explains why I felt there was always less then what I remembered putting on it. I always thought i was being rather generous with my application but i might try putting on some more and perhaps also coating the IHS itself and see if things improve.


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## UltraMega

Thingamajig said:


> I've a 7700k, overlocked to 4.8Ghz, in an ITX rig (So expect higher than normal temps). It's watercooled and shares the same loop as a mini 1070 GPU.
> 
> I run a stress test on the CPU only - a custom test thats listed in a 7700k owners club thread on this very site.
> 
> After a successful delid, load temperatures on the CPU max at around 86c. Water temperatures at this point peak at 39c. I start these tests when i've got an ambient room temperature of 22-23c
> 
> After a few months, and i replicate this whole test, my CPU max temperature climbs up, water temperatures drop slightly. The last time I ran this test, temperatures were in the 98-101c range.
> 
> 
> This has happend on three seperate occasions in the past and each time a delid/reseal fixed things and bought CPU temps back down to acceptable ranges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had no idea the copper could absorb some of the compound - makes sense considering the staining. Probably explains why I felt there was always less then what I remembered putting on it. I always thought i was being rather generous with my application but i might try putting on some more and perhaps also coating the IHS itself and see if things improve.


If your temps are that high them you should definitely redo it, and maybe use a little more LM. Post pics of what it looks like when you open ur CPU back up. 

At those temps your CPU should be throttling so you are probably already losing performance.

I have found the best thing to do with delidding is use some clear nail polish to cover the PCB on the CPU that is close to the die, that will protect the PCB and the nail polish won't hurt anything. Then you can feel more secure that you won't mess up your CPU being more generous with the LM. Also, what LM are you using?


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## ShrimpBrime

UltraMega said:


> What were your temps right after delidding and what are they now? What are the actual numbers?


Ahem, yes sorry. Temps before where nearly identical.
2700x Lid-less PGA 4Ghz Tec cooled. 16 threads at 4Ghz.
Cinebench loaded temp, score temp and idle temp.
Removing the IHS plate did not make a big difference.


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## rluker5

Hi
My coolabs pro also tends to dry/oxidize after maybe a year if I'm running mid 1.3s for volts and it showed symptoms of not working well on my 4770k whenever I would run it over 1.5v trying to hit high clocks in benches. When the temps would start to get bad, it would look dry in the core area when I would pull the ihs off. I also never glue it back, I just let the bracket hold the ihs in place. But I do spread a pretty thin coating on the die and ihs so that might shorten the life of lm on my chips.

The 4770k I delidded in jan 2014 is still fine, and I have delidded the rest of my cpus that could benefit. It's still more than worth it too me.

Also copper does slowly soak lm up, but silver does it quickly. I tested the wettability if lm on a silver ihs I made from a bullion coin and it made a dark stain in less than a minute. Then I checked the phase diagram and silver has a bit of that liquid plus solid phase equilibrium with gallium at room temp like aluminum has. 
Without lm, the potential increase in cooling from using pure silver was more than negated vs nickel plated copper+lm. At least the coin didn't cost that much.


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## Thingamajig

UltraMega said:


> If your temps are that high them you should definitely redo it, and maybe use a little more LM. Post pics of what it looks like when you open ur CPU back up.
> 
> At those temps your CPU should be throttling so you are probably already losing performance.
> 
> I have found the best thing to do with delidding is use some clear nail polish to cover the PCB on the CPU that is close to the die, that will protect the PCB and the nail polish won't hurt anything. Then you can feel more secure that you won't mess up your CPU being more generous with the LM. Also, what LM are you using?


I use a cleaning solution each time i delid, Articsilver branded stuff i think?? A "Thermal material remover" (GREAT for removing the old silicone glue for the IHS) and a surface purifier. (I also use rubber gloves). Regarding thermal throttiling - it actually doesn't. I monitor it via "Argus monitor" (Love this program) and i get absolutely no throttling at all, but the high temps cause serious instabilities and/or even crashes. I Don't think iv'e seen it throttle until it's exceeded at least 105c


I've already done the delid using a different technique; i applied the liquid metal to both the copper IHS and the core (Being generous on the core side) and temps have decreased even greater then past applications.


However, after doing this, and booting it all up, i've ran into a bigger problem; my 1070 zotac GPU is no longer recognized. I removed the motherboard entirely and reseated every connector possible (GPU ((duh)), RAM, CPU power leads, mobo leads) and still the motherboard doesn't detect the GPU. Currently running off integrated at moment.

I'm thinking either the card has suddenly up and died, or the PCI/Mobo is fubar'ed. Either way, it's gunna be a costly fix - not having much luck am i?

I've ordered a very cheap PCI-E gpu to run a a test to determine what has failed. I'm going to hazard a guess it's mobo as thats the only thing possibly disturbed in what i've been doing. dont understand it either as i'm rediculously thorough and take my time with any work on my main rig. Bloody typical huh?


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## UltraMega

Check for bent pins or minor debris in the CPU socket. If your gpu is not being recognized after taking the CPU out and putting it back in, you may have bent or blocked one of the pins in the socket that carries the PCIe lane signal.


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## rluker5

Also try with your old, stock ihs again. I also have one of those unplated copper ihs's from rockit and I shaved the bottom down a bit since I wanted to make sure the copper contacted my silicon well. It could be a touch thicker like mine was and elastically bend a pin or two a bit too far so it doesn't contact.
I also don't use it since, while it did help temps a bit, I was worried that I would have more lm related maintenance with it. Mine seemed to soak up lm even after I intentionally stained it. But it is beginning to sound like I could also reduce my maintenance by switching from coolabs pro to coolabs ultra as well.


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