# Kinzu v2, Kinzu v2 Pro and Kana



## v4mp1

Which colors are available forthe Kinzu v2 and Kinzu v2 pro ?


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kimrom*
> 
> Hi everyone. I started reading this forum a while back, and a few of you have been really nice in providing suggestions, feedback and testing - thus I feel it's appropriate to give a heads up here first. This week we will soft launch a couple of new mice, initially in Asia (I am writing this from Korea). Some regions will get them sooner than others, depending on logistics and other factors, some maybe even as early as next week. In early January we will turn everything on and they should be available globally.
> The new mice being released are;
> Kinzu v2
> Kinzu v2 Pro
> Kana
> All the mice are optical. Ambidextrous. Several color spins will be released of all versions.
> The Kinzu v2 Pro is pretty much based on requests/demands/complaints/feedback from you guys. It features teflon feet and Omron switches. We listen.
> Kana uses the same formfactor as Kinzu, but it is 4% bigger overall. That puts it (literally) right in the middle between Kinzu/Sensei in terms of size, for those of you familiar with those shapes. We have upgraded the feet and switches in Kana, also based on feedback from this forum.
> I sent units for testing to Bullveyr, Skylit, Derp and Furuya. Received amazing feedback. Like really amazing. We normally focus our testing on competitive gamers, but I was very impressed with the detailed feedback we got from the 4 gentlemen mentioned above. We even found and corrected bugs that might have slipped thru the "pro's". My deepest thanks to those of the 4 who had time to help test, this is something I would for sure like to do again - both for new products but also for new firmware/software releases.
> I don't really visit this forum to sell, but I promised you guys to get feedback from people who are both knowledgeable and trusted.. And that now falls on the 4 gentlemen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As of December 14th they are free to answer any questions, that was the deal I made with them back then.
> I will try to check in as well to answer questions.
> Cheers - and thanks for all the great feedback and suggestions.


Finally some info. I will be checking out the kinzu v2 pro. The kinzu v1 has an amazing shape but I absolutely despise the sensor. I'm glad you you also included the omron switches and telfon feet unlike with the original kinzu. (unless you had the pro edition which wasn't available here in europe)

When you say you upgraded the swtiches in the kana, does that mean it features omron switchen too?
I have to say, the kana being in the middle of the pack seems pretty interesting. I've always had the feeling that the xai was too big for me, but the kinzu was a tad to small, even tho' I love the shape, not really bothersome tho'. The kana could be perfect for me.

Any info on the sensor(s) being used and how they perform or do we have to wait until the 14th for that?
I'm hoping on a; No jitter, no acceleration whatsoever, no prediction and high tracking speeds (pcs).

If that's the case, I'll be purchasing on the day of release.


----------



## h0lm

now gimme moar pics kimrom.com


----------



## jeffxx

Sounds like the perfect size for me. I'll be ordering one for sure.


----------



## Buckmoney

+1


----------



## Blizlake

I don't care what the Kana looks and what its specs are, I just can't pass up a mouse that's name is chicken in finnish


----------



## Pyroh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blizlake*
> 
> I don't care what the Kana looks and what its specs are, I just can't pass up a mouse that's name is chicken in finnish


lol









Anyways back to the thread, I have some questions which I hope you're allowed to answer:

- Which sensors are being used in these mice assuming they're different?
- What will the prices be for all these new mice?
- What will the coating be on these mice?
- Will the Kinzu v2 have the exact same shape as the original?


----------



## toopz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pyroh*
> 
> lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways back to the thread, I have some questions which I hope you're allowed to answer:
> - Which sensors are being used in these mice assuming they're different?
> - What will the prices be for all these new mice?
> - What will the coating be on these mice?
> - Will the Kinzu v2 have the exact same shape as the original?


Wait till 14th Dec! All 4 members who got those mice will answer your questions!








If they have pixart sensor its no good to me.


----------



## mikez0r

awesome news


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kimrom*
> 
> The Kinzu v2 Pro is pretty much based on requests/demands/complaints/feedback from you guys. It features teflon feet and Omron switches. We listen.
> We have upgraded the feet and switches in Kana, also based on feedback from this forum.


----------



## kaingosu

error


----------



## c4rm0

It will all depend on the sensor if the kinzu v2 pro has a great sensor i will buy it


----------



## Pyroh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *c4rm0*
> 
> It will all depend on the sensor if the kinzu v2 pro has a great sensor i will buy it


This x1000


----------



## rmp459

Thanks for the post/info OP.

I really hope they built something to give us a reason to stop making kinzuadders..







I mean it would just be great to be able to pick up a few mice that are perfect from the get-go and know I wont have any issues w/ replacements for the next few years.


----------



## HWI

Based on the fact that Bullveyr, Skylit, Derp and Furuya tested them, I expect that the sensor performance will be quite good.


----------



## Pyroh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HWI*
> 
> Based on the fact that Bullveyr, Skylit, Derp and Furuya tested them, I expect that the sensor performance will be quite good.


5 MILES PER SECOND PERFECT CONTROL SPEED HERE I COME!


----------



## glockateer

I'm quite surprised they finally went with omrons.


----------



## Vikhr

If the new Kinzu has no jittering, no/little prediction, no accel, and a reasonable perfect control speed then I will love Steelseries forever.


----------



## obi.van.kenobi

how many euros for these mice?


----------



## vocroth

I was going to make kinzuadders in bulk for selling but let's wait for the Kinzu v2 pro


----------



## ARIKOmagic

waiting patiently until 14th then


----------



## Sasuke2525

When is this mouse coming out? I'm just going to buy the Zowie AM if none are released before christmas/or close after.


----------



## powerslave

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sasuke2525*
> 
> When is this mouse coming out? I'm just going to buy the Zowie AM if none are released before christmas/or close after.


I'm more or less in the same situation: i love my DA performance,but i really miss the 1.1 shape so Zowie AM ,kinzu v2 pro or kana in the way.


----------



## Buttnose

looking forward to seeing these mice!


----------



## foppa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kimrom*
> 
> All the mice are optical. Ambidextrous. Several color spins will be released of all versions.
> The Kinzu v2 Pro is pretty much based on requests/demands/complaints/feedback from you guys. It features teflon feet and Omron switches. We listen.
> Kana uses the same formfactor as Kinzu, but it is 4% bigger overall. That puts it (literally) right in the middle between Kinzu/Sensei in terms of size, for those of you familiar with those shapes. We have upgraded the feet and switches in Kana, also based on feedback from this forum.


So Kana will feature teflon feet and omron switches like the Kinzu v2 Pro Edition??


----------



## n6378056

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *c4rm0*
> 
> It will all depend on the sensor if the kinzu v2 pro has a great sensor i will buy it


No joke I will buy 1 of every color if this is true.


----------



## thirtyseven

Interested in price/sensor performance and how they relate.


----------



## naguli

Looking forward to see picture collection of colors
Gonna get mine kinzu v2 pro during this week and for sure gonna buy kana also


----------



## Sencha

Looking forward to the Kinzu pro v2.


----------



## Nilas

Kinzu V2 pro - black is just in stock at Germany / EU:

http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/SteelSeries-Optical-Gaming-Mouse-Kinzu-V2-Pro-Edition-black::17991.html

I´m very unhappy with the Sensei, so iam looking forward to get one. Maybe i will wait for another color.


----------



## Blizlake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilas*
> 
> Kinzu V2 pro - black is just in stock at Germany / EU:
> 
> http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/SteelSeries-Optical-Gaming-Mouse-Kinzu-V2-Pro-Edition-black::17991.html


Please don't tell me they're all just in glossy colours... Gloss = bad FGS


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilas*
> 
> Kinzu V2 pro - black is just in stock at Germany / EU:
> http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/SteelSeries-Optical-Gaming-Mouse-Kinzu-V2-Pro-Edition-black::17991.html
> I´m very unhappy with the Sensei, so iam looking forward to get one. Maybe i will wait for another color.


NO! It's glossy, hopefully there's another version of it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blizlake*
> 
> Please don't tell me they're all just in glossy colours... Gloss = bad FGS


Yeah I hope they have 2 versions, one with the original coating like the kinzu v1 has. Otherwise I might have to skip this mouse which would be a shame. Let's wait and see what they announce tomorrow. If glossy is the only one they have, then I'll be getting a kana. (If it's not glossy)

But I doubt steelseries is that stupid. Plus, the mouse was sent to be reviewed by members of this forum, I'm sure the glossy issue has been brought up. Sensor wise I think it should be fine. With the input of the 4 members I think it turned out allright.


----------



## Bullveyr

I have to mention that I only got a Kinzu v2 (+ Sensei, but not a Kana) and that certainly the other guys gave more feedback.


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bullveyr*
> 
> I have to mention that I only got a Kinzu v2 (+ Sensei, but not a Kana) and that certainly the other guys gave more feedback.


So I know you are not allowed to talk about the specifics of mouse just yet (3 more hours) but is it allowed to mention a non-glossy version?


----------



## kaingosu

Kinzu V2 added to Steelseries page

http://steelseries.com/products/mice

The silver pro edition looks like IMO 1.1 SE coating


----------



## mikez0r

only difference i can fin in kinzu v2 vs kinzu v2 pro is omrom switches or is there anything else?

what switches are in the regular kinzu v2?


----------



## Vikhr

Oh god that orange and black Kinzu looks sick

Regarding the Pro and the normal one, the Pro will have Omrons (no idea which ones) and teflon feet, the non-pro will probably have TTC switches and plastic feet.

I could be wrong about the Teflon feet though, the pages for both of the Kinzu's state that they come with Teflon feet.


----------



## toopz

3200 frames per second. Pixart sensor!


----------



## foppa

Hurry up Dec. 14th!!


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikez0r*
> 
> only difference i can fin in kinzu v2 vs kinzu v2 pro is omrom switches or is there anything else?
> what switches are in the regular kinzu v2?


The differences are in:

1. The mousefeet. The kinzu v2 pro uses teflon feet, while the kinzu v2 uses plastic.
2. The switches. The kinzu v2 pro uses omron and the kinzu v2 will have TTC switches
3. The material apparently. The kinzu v2 pro only seems to come with a glossy shell, although I'm not so sure about the silver one. It looks like the intelli 1.1SE coating. Perhaps it's the same as on the sensei. The kinzu v2 has glossy shells as well, but also the classic shell like the kinzu v1.

They all use the same sensor.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vikhr*
> 
> Oh god that orange and black Kinzu looks sick
> Regarding the Pro and the normal one, the Pro will have Omrons (no idea which ones) and teflon feet, the non-pro will probably have TTC switches and plastic feet.
> I could be wrong about the Teflon feet though, the pages for both of the Kinzu's state that they come with Teflon feet.


AGREED! To bad the color is only available for the normal kinzu v2. Regardless, I'll be going for that silver kinzu v2 pro, looks like a sensei/intelli 1.1SE mix regarding the color and the coating!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> Kinzu V2 added to Steelseries page
> http://steelseries.com/products/mice
> The silver pro edition looks like IMO 1.1 SE coating


Haha, yeah that's the first thing I noticed too. It looks sick, although it seems to be a bit glossy.
http://static.hltv.org/images/galleries/4243-full/1322308512.68.jpeg
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toopz*
> 
> 3200 frames per second. Pixart sensor!


Who cares, if they tweaked it perfectly and it performs great, I'm all game. They probably adjusted the lens and fixed the little bugs hopefully!


----------



## foppa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> 
> The differences are in:
> 1. The mousefeet. The kinzu v2 pro uses teflon feet, while the kinzu v2 uses plastic.
> 2. The switches. The kinzu v2 pro uses omron and the kinzu v2 will have TTC switches
> 3. The material apparently. The kinzu v2 pro only seems to come with a glossy shell, although I'm not so sure about the silver one. It looks like the intelli 1.1SE coating. Perhaps it's the same as on the sensei. The kinzu v2 has glossy shells as well, but also the classic shell like the kinzu v1.


Both the V2 and V2 Pro pages say they are using Teflon feet.
Also, the intelli 1.1SE was a gloss finish


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *foppa*
> 
> Both the V2 and V2 Pro pages say they are using Teflon feet.
> Also, the intelli 1.1SE was a gloss finish


You are absolutely right. I was trying to comment on the reflectiveness on the silver kinzu v2 pro. But I don't remember my 1.1se being that reflective. Could just be my memory


----------



## foppa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> 
> AGREED! To bad the color is only available for the normal kinzu v2. Regardless, I'll be going for that silver kinzu v2 pro, looks like a sensei/intelli 1.1SE mix regarding the color and the coating!
> Haha, yeah that's the first thing I noticed too. It looks sick, although it seems to be a bit glossy.


I'm sure it wouldnt be too hard to put the matte shell of a v1 or the v2 on the v2 Pro.








The 1.1SE was more reflective than this, I assume it will feel like the sensei.


----------



## h0lm

This image pretty much shows they did their best to make the exact 1.1SE coating, I think.
The lighting makes it look more matte than it actually is, if you look at the left side of the mouse, see the reflection:
http://cdn-web.steelseries.com/wp-content/uploads/steelseries-kinzu-v2-pro-metallic-silver_angle-image-1.jpeg
That looks just like a 1.1SE, the perfect amount of grib for me. Definitely gonna buy this, unless Kana is released aswell with this coating.
Best mouse that ever existed: http://peecee.dk/uploads/122011/335979386_66448363f8_z.jpg


----------



## Pyroh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *h0lm*
> 
> This image pretty much shows they did their best to make the exact 1.1SE coating, I think.
> The lighting makes it look more matte than it actually is, if you look at the left side of the mouse, see the reflection:
> http://cdn-web.steelseries.com/wp-content/uploads/steelseries-kinzu-v2-pro-metallic-silver_angle-image-1.jpeg
> That looks just like a 1.1SE, the perfect amount of grib for me. Definitely gonna buy this, unless Kana is released aswell with this coating.
> Best mouse that ever existed: http://peecee.dk/uploads/122011/335979386_66448363f8_z.jpg


Is it a straight gloss coating or is there something like a grainy/sanded varnish to prevent sweating? I just really hate glossy coating


----------



## Sencha

Looking like I'll be getting a silver pro V2 kinzu.........maybe in time for christmas?....


----------



## foppa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pyroh*
> 
> Is it a straight gloss coating or is there something like a grainy/sanded varnish to prevent sweating? I just really hate glossy coating


I think it looks more grainy like the sensei personally. Depending on which version Bullveyr, Skylit, Derp and Furuya receieved they can let us know tomorrow!


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *h0lm*
> 
> Best mouse that ever existed: http://peecee.dk/uploads/122011/335979386_66448363f8_z.jpg


Good night, sweet prince.


----------



## Pyroh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *foppa*
> 
> I think it looks more grainy like the sensei personally. Depending on which version Bullveyr, Skylit, Derp and Furuya receieved they can let us know tomorrow!


I'm so excited, I just can't fight it DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD


----------



## jung1e

So how is the silver coating on the Sensei/Kinzu v2. Does it just feel like a glossy shell, but with the extra metallic grain in the gloss?


----------



## scandalous

It's passed 12 over here!!!! (CET)

Bullveyr, Skylit, Derp and Furuya where are you guys at. I need my fix!


----------



## Skylit

Kinzu V2's sensor is a Pixart PAW3305DK.

Only posting this because the product page is up.


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Kinzu V2's sensor is a Pixart PAW3305DK.
> Only posting this because the product page is up.


So,

1. What about tracking performance?
2. Does it have any positive acceleration?
3. Can you make it jitter?
3. What is the Perfect control speed at which you hit negative accel?
4. How's the build quality
5. Is the silver coating 'grained' or smooth/glossy?
6. What kind of omron switches does it use and how do they feel.
7. Does it have any double click issues?
8. Does it perform the same on all cpi steps?

What kind of issues did you notice and were fixed after?


----------



## mikez0r

i assume the Pixart PAW3305DK is an upgraded pixart sensor from the mico?

also do the kana and kinzu v2 got the same sensor?


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> 
> So,
> 1. What about tracking performance?
> 2. Does it have any positive acceleration?
> 3. Can you make it jitter?
> 3. What is the Perfect control speed at which you hit negative accel?
> 4. How's the build quality
> 5. Is the silver coating 'grained' or smooth/glossy?
> 6. What kind of omron switches does it use and how do they feel.
> 7. Does it have any double click issues?
> 8. Does it perform the same on all cpi steps?
> What kind of issues did you notice and were fixed after?


I'll answer your questions once the product has launched.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I'll answer your questions once the product has launched.


It hasn't?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kimrom*
> 
> As of December 14th they are free to answer any questions, that was the deal I made with them back then.


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I'll answer your questions once the product has launched.


Thanks!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> It hasn't?


I'm guessing the product launches officially today, as in an official statement has been made on the steelseries site. so Kim Rom probably meant that they could answer the questions after the launch on the 14th?


----------



## Luhz

Basically if the sensor specs turn out good enough (no prediction, 2m/s+ perfect control, no jittering or other issues, relatively low liftoff) I'll be buying at least 2 to start.


----------



## Jalal

-i really want to know, does it skip pixels occassionally like the mico?

-then which omrons does it have?

-and i guess the kinzu v2 normal version uses real teflon feet? would be extremly impudent otherwise.


----------



## theo87

So how is Kana guys?


----------



## powerslave

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inox*
> 
> So how is Kana guys?


and what are the difference between kinzu and kana ?
do they use the same sensor?

im just too curious


----------



## Sencha

Wake up sleepy heads







we need info LOL


----------



## v4mp1

yes, wake up!


----------



## h0lm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Wake up sleepy heads
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we need info LOL


And pictures of the kana


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Wake up sleepy heads
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we need info LOL


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v4mp1*
> 
> yes, wake up!


Ahahahahah


----------



## Sasuke2525

I want to know the price! It's also only 8AM here est, so they may not be awake if they live in the US or at work.


----------



## Bullveyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Wake up sleepy heads
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we need info LOL






(just reminded me of that brilliant sketch)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sasuke2525*
> 
> I want to know the price! It's also only 8AM here est, so they may not be awake if they live in the US or at work.


Dunno, Kim Rom didn't bill me.


----------



## agor

Time Frame for a new mouse for christmas is closing soon








Reviews!! Need em


----------



## Sencha

Bump for infos:thumb:


----------



## scandalous

From steelseries faq:

*The SteelSeries Kana is an optical, ambidextrous mouse designed for all three grip styles: palm, claw and swipe. The functionality, ergonomic button layout and size was perfected alongside SteelSeries' professional gaming teams, who also tested and validated the precision and power hidden in the Kana's modest exterior. Make no mistake; this mouse was built for consistency and accuracy even in professional tournament conditions. Designed by Gamers: SteelSeries Kana is available in two versions; the first named White1.1, while the second was selected by SteelSeries' Facebook community of more than 300,000 gamers and where 60,000 "Likes" determined the winning design, Black1.1.*

*Sensor
Frames per sec: 3600
Inches per sec: 130
CPI: 3200
Lift distance: 2mm / .08in

Physical:
Cable: 2m / 6.5ft, braided
Buttons: 6*

So it's the same sensor as the kinzu v2. But the kana does 130 inches per second compared to the kinzu v2's 65 inches per second? I wonder why that is.

And it's one side button on each side apparently. Although that was already obvious to most


----------



## merple

The Kana sounds like a good candidate to replenish my dwindling stockpile of working wmo1.1

The kinzu always felt a bit too small and the xai a touch too big, so this could be perfect for me.


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *merple*
> 
> The Kana sounds like a good candidate to replenish my dwindling stockpile of working wmo1.1
> The kinzu always felt a bit too small and the xai a touch too big, so this could be perfect for me.


I agree, I've been looking at the kinzu v2 pro all this time, but I have to say that the kana is getting more interesting every day.
The form factor is exactly the same which is really nice. But I have to say it's side buttons seem a bit weird if you ask me.

http://www.muizenshop.nl/layout/media/103601-103800/103760_1_image.jpg

On most mice, the side button stick out a bit and you press them in, but on the kana it doesn't look that way.


----------



## Sencha

Yeah it looks a little clunky almost....hard to say without using it. I have been using mice with side buttons but this time I'm going for the kinzu pro. The size and weight will feel so nice and I can do without the side buttons easy.

When I held the kinzu I loved the pure simple feel of it. With a good sensor this will be amazing IMO


----------



## jung1e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> 
> I agree, I've been looking at the kinzu v2 pro all this time, but I have to say that the kana is getting more interesting every day.
> The form factor is exactly the same which is really nice. But I have to say it's side buttons seem a bit weird if you ask me.
> http://www.muizenshop.nl/layout/media/103601-103800/103760_1_image.jpg
> On most mice, the side button stick out a bit and you press them in, but on the kana it doesn't look that way.


I think its a bonus for those people who have a problem accidentally pressing side buttons, I guess it prevents it a little more. Also it makes the mouse look more sleak with one continue contour instead of having side buttons stick out so im really looking forward to it. Also the colors are both nice. I have a white Kinzu v1 and not going to lie I miss having some side buttons


----------



## Sencha

why do you miss them? gaming or browsing...or both?


----------



## v4mp1

Whats up with this lazy "testers" ? -.-


----------



## Vikhr

Some questions for the testers when they're available:
1. Does the Pixart sensor have any acceleration?
2. Does the sensor have any prediction or jitter?
3. The spec list for the Kana and Kinzu state different tracking speeds, is this a typo or do they track differently?
4. What kind of perfect control speeds were you getting with the Kinzu and Kana?
5. As someone that loves the WMO but is getting frustrated with the low perfect control speed, would you use the Kinzu V2 over one?
6. I recently tried a IMO 1.1 and had problems with my ring finger hitting the right side button, do you experience the same problem with the Kana and/or can you turn off the side buttons?
7. What are your general opinions of each mouse and would you recommend them to avid WMO/1.1 fans?
8. Is the Kinzu V2 Pro worth getting over the normal V2?
9. How is the scroll wheel on both mice? What would you compare them to?
10. How much force is required to use the middle mouse button, I use middle mouse on my WMO for PTT.
11. Is it still possible to make Kinzuadders with the Kinzu V2?

Thanks


----------



## Sencha

+1 to those questions


----------



## krameriffic

Why are glossy coatings suddenly making a resurgence with Steelseries? All of the different models seem to be super smooth glossy plastic. Seems odd.


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krameriffic*
> 
> Why are glossy coatings suddenly making a resurgence with Steelseries? All of the different models seem to be super smooth glossy plastic. Seems odd.


Imo it's a good thing. They are offering glossy to those that like it, and at the same time they offer the grained non glossy shell to those that prefer that. Win/win right?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vikhr*
> 
> Some questions for the testers when they're available:
> 1. Does the Pixart sensor have any acceleration?
> 2. Does the sensor have any prediction or jitter?
> 3. The spec list for the Kana and Kinzu state different tracking speeds, is this a typo or do they track differently?
> 4. What kind of perfect control speeds were you getting with the Kinzu and Kana?
> 5. As someone that loves the WMO but is getting frustrated with the low perfect control speed, would you use the Kinzu V2 over one?
> 6. I recently tried a IMO 1.1 and had problems with my ring finger hitting the right side button, do you experience the same problem with the Kana and/or can you turn off the side buttons?
> 7. What are your general opinions of each mouse and would you recommend them to avid WMO/1.1 fans?
> 8. Is the Kinzu V2 Pro worth getting over the normal V2?
> 9. How is the scroll wheel on both mice? What would you compare them to?
> 10. How much force is required to use the middle mouse button, I use middle mouse on my WMO for PTT.
> 11. Is it still possible to make Kinzuadders with the Kinzu V2?
> Thanks


I asked the same questions a few pages back. It seems they won't release any info until steelseries officially launches the products.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I'll answer your questions once the product has launched.


----------



## kaingosu

"Well this has all been one big tease!" - Kramer


----------



## Pyroh

Son, I am dissapoint.


----------



## krameriffic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> "Well this has all been one big tease!" - Kramer


I can live with it, but their strategy just seems to fly in the face of the trends in mouse design in the industry as well as all personal knowledge that I have. I've never met a single person who prefers glossy mice. It's just an unpleasant material to touch, especially when you start to get sweaty.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> 
> Imo it's a good thing. They are offering glossy to those that like it, and at the same time they offer the grained non glossy shell to those that prefer that. Win/win right?


I actually don't see this. Every picture and concept art I've seen shows glossy plastic. I'm fine if they do both, but at this point they are pushing the glossy and there is no conclusive evidence to show that they are offering rubberized surfaces.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krameriffic*
> 
> I've never met a single person who prefers glossy mice


Oh hi there


----------



## Derp

I'm just waiting for a reply from Kim Rom to be completely sure that the performance of the beta mice in my hands will represent the actual product.


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krameriffic*
> 
> I've never met a single person who prefers glossy mice.


Nice to meet you.


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I'm just waiting for a reply from Kim Rom to be completely sure that the performance of the beta mice in my hands will represent the actual product.


Do you have a review ready? Or skylit.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARIKOmagic*
> 
> Do you have a review ready? Or skylit.


I personally don't have a boxed retail sample to review at this time.

There are a couple things that may or may not be changed.

Edit:

I'll have a Xornet review by this weekend though. Finals got in the way.


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krameriffic*
> 
> *I actually don't see this. Every picture and concept art I've seen shows glossy plastic. I'm fine if they do both, but at this point they are pushing the glossy and there is no conclusive evidence to show that they are offering rubberized surfaces*.


Look closer

http://steelseries.com/products/mice/steelseries-kinzu-v2
Scroll down to the pictures and select the black kinzu v2.
Or a direct link:
http://cdn-web.steelseries.com/wp-content/uploads/steelseries-kinzu-v2-rubberized-black_angle-image-1.jpeg

I'm not sure about the kinzu v2 pro yet. We'll have to wait until they reviews come in to be sure, but this looks a bit grained.
http://cdn-web.steelseries.com/wp-content/uploads/steelseries-kinzu-v2-pro-metallic-silver_angle-image-1.jpeg

Seems that you might be stuck with glossy if you want the kinzu v2 pro. Otherwise you just have to go with the kinzu v2.

But I'm sure that most people will just buy a kinzu v2 grained black and a kinzu v2 pro and switch the shells if it bothers them that much.


----------



## Vikhr

Looking forward to that Xornet review, I've been looking at one of those but I've heard so many conflicting reports about how it performs on the Talent.

Also looking forward to the info on the new SS mice.


----------



## BiGsTaR

Well, Derp said in another post he'll buy a Zowie AM anyway, so sadly I don't excpect wonders from this sensor.


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BiGsTaR*
> 
> Well, Derp said in another post he'll buy a Zowie AM anyway, so sadly I don't excpect wonders from this sensor.


Did it have something specifically to do with the sensor, or does he feel that it's to small for him?


----------



## Skylit

There's a few reasons why I haven't really commented, but ultimately, we weren't given a "date".

Prior to this thread we were told that we could answer and post our findings once the product was "officially announced". IE facebook, Twitter, Steelseries main page.

Edit: Kim also mentioned that our samples aren't "finalized" as me and derp kinda stated. Would rather give impressions on a completed product, but I can tell you how the sensor will likely perform.


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> but I can tell you how the sensor will likely perform.


And that is?


----------



## defi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> There's a few reasons why I haven't really commented, but ultimately, we weren't given a "date".
> 
> Prior to this thread we were told that we could answer and post our findings once the product was "officially announced". IE facebook, Twitter, Steelseries main page.
> 
> Edit: Kim also mentioned that our samples aren't "finalized" as me and derp kinda stated. Would rather give impressions on a completed product, but I can tell you how the sensor will likely perform.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kimrom*
> 
> As of December 14th they are free to answer any questions, that was the deal I made with them back then.


He gave you the go ahead in th OP, post the reviews!


----------



## VxO2

Does somebody know why the fps rate is that low?

I mean its half as low as the kinzu v1


----------



## dmxdex2020

I just picked up another xai off ebay practically brand new for 35 pounds. Think the xai is my favourite mouse. Good thing for me is i dont play at very low sense and i use my wrist so i dont get the acceleration issues that low sens players get.


----------



## thirtyseven

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmxdex2020*
> 
> I just picked up another xai off ebay practically brand new for 35 pounds. Think the xai is my favourite mouse. Good thing for me is i dont play at very low sense and i use my wrist so i dont get the acceleration issues that low sens players get.


Yeah, doesn't the acceleration kick in at a certain speed? Or am I off base?


----------



## Vikhr

According to Skylit's Sensei review it seems to kick in at around 40IPS.


----------



## v4mp1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Would rather give impressions on a completed product, but I can tell you how the sensor will likely perform.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> 
> And that is?


+1 xD


----------



## Sencha

Kim said you're allowed to go loud after 14th? has something else been said more recent behind the scenes?


----------



## Bullveyr

Allthough I can understand why people may prefer rubberized over glossy I don't get the big fuzz about it, it's only glossy on the top cover anyway. The parts of your hand that control the mouse are most likely not touching the top cover.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VxO2*
> 
> Does somebody know why the fps rate is that low?
> 
> I mean its half as low as the kinzu v1


Different sensor from a different company.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bullveyr*
> 
> Different sensor from a different company.


Do you feel a difference between this (Mico, Kova+ etc) and a regular Avago sensor with 6400 fps? I'm asking because i never used a Pixart sensor. Does fps have an impact on tracking quality?


----------



## foxhaze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bullveyr*
> 
> Allthough I can understand why people may prefer rubberized over glossy I don't get the big fuzz about it, it's only glossy on the top cover anyway. The parts of your hand that control the mouse are most likely not touching the top cover.


Doesn't the glossy part get a bit grimy when you're using it? It seems like it would be just like how the sides of the DA get dirty over time, but in this case, it would be the top of the mouse.


----------



## hza

I'm just wondering how all will end up regarding Kinzu v2 and Kana. Did SteelSeries do a good enough job? If it turns out they (especially Kana) don't perform that good, reputation will suffer at least. People just had too big hopes in the Kana project. I think SteelSeries wanted to protect Sensei too much, so to say.


----------



## Cek

glossy parts get dirt easily, but they areeasy to clean and they have better stickyness (depends on how much your hand sweats)


----------



## rmp459

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *foxhaze*
> 
> Doesn't the glossy part get a bit grimy when you're using it? It seems like it would be just like how the sides of the DA get dirty over time, but in this case, it would be the top of the mouse.


Well I suppose that's more of a hygiene question... washing your hands and all that. Pick up some alcohol wipes and clean it off once a week.


----------



## n6378056

Glossy finish is such a trivial issue compared to shape and sensor performance. Wet and dry sandpaper gives pretty decent feel + matt finish. Works wonders on razer products.


----------



## krameriffic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *n6378056*
> 
> Glossy finish is such a trivial issue compared to shape and sensor performance. Wet and dry sandpaper gives pretty decent feel + matt finish. Works wonders on razer products.


We know the shape though. There's no question about what we're getting on that front.

Also, I like when people attempt to trivialize the nitpicks that other people have about their mice. We're all picky about the tiniest details on here, stop deluding yourself into thinking that your details are more important that my details.


----------



## Luhz

He's right though, have you ever tried sanding down a glossy mouse?

I love the texture of the original black Kinzu, and I've been primarily using a glossy Abyssus while waiting for V2 to come out with a proper sensor.

I hated the glossy finish and sanded it down using fine grit paper, and now I don't have any problems with it at all.


----------



## Pyroh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luhz*
> 
> He's right though, have you ever tried sanding down a glossy mouse?
> I love the texture of the original black Kinzu, and I've been primarily using a glossy Abyssus while waiting for V2 to come out with a proper sensor.
> I hated the glossy finish and sanded it down using fine grit paper, and now I don't have any problems with it at all.


What grain did you use?


----------



## VxO2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bullveyr*
> 
> Allthough I can understand why people may prefer rubberized over glossy I don't get the big fuzz about it, it's only glossy on the top cover anyway. The parts of your hand that control the mouse are most likely not touching the top cover.
> Different sensor from a different company.


Still a little bit wierd that it is that low.
Since every optical(gaming) sensor had over 6000fps

When can we expect your review?
I mean the Kinzu v2 pro is out since yesterday


----------



## Pendulum

I'm interested in the Kinzu V2 in matte black.
I just have a couple questions that I have not seen 100% confirmed. (I'm currently at work and can't dig through all the pages to double check :/ )

Are the switches and or mouse feet different from the pro?
Do the gloss versions have any grit to their finish?

I'm just waiting for the Kana before I make my decesion.


----------



## jung1e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pendulum*
> 
> I'm interested in the Kinzu V2 in matte black.
> I just have a couple questions that I have not seen 100% confirmed. (I'm currently at work and can't dig through all the pages to double check :/ )
> Are the switches and or mouse feet different from the pro?
> Do the gloss versions have any grit to their finish?
> I'm just waiting for the Kana before I make my decesion.


Yeah they should be different, with regulars using plastic mouse feet and TTC switches. I assume that because this was how it was in the Kinzu v1s. Also Kim Ron did say that the PRO edition would have omron and teflon, so that may hint that the regular series do not.


----------



## ARIKOmagic

I don't understand why ss says on their web site that both the regular kinzu v1 and v2 have teflon feet?!


----------



## Gabriel Ruan

Any comparative pictures of the WMO/Kinzu? WMO feels too long, Mico, too short. What do?


----------



## Zehkul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I'm just waiting for a reply from Kim Rom to be completely sure that the performance of the beta mice in my hands will represent the actual product.


Doesn't sound like it's good, lol.


----------



## eko

I am in market for a new gaming mouse... Should I wait for Kinzu v2 Pro/Kana (it looks like it will be good for my hand and grip)? How much will we wait for the release aprox? Jan, Feb?


----------



## Bullveyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *foxhaze*
> 
> Doesn't the glossy part get a bit grimy when you're using it? It seems like it would be just like how the sides of the DA get dirty over time, but in this case, it would be the top of the mouse.


Probably but I didn't game with it long enough to really judge it.
In general I like the stickyness of glossy coating but overall I dislike it because of the more umcomfortable feel over time (one of the things I didn't like about my white EC2)
But on the Kinzu v2 it should only/mostly affect the tips of 2 fingers.

I don't have an original Kinzu but judging from the pics (I opened mine) swapping covers should work, no guarantee, the old skates at least fit
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> Do you feel a difference between this (Mico, Kova+ etc) and a regular Avago sensor with 6400 fps? I'm asking because i never used a Pixart sensor. Does fps have an impact on tracking quality?


To be honest, my "hand-o-meter" is probably not that good.
The Kinzu simply isn't my kind of mouse, too small and the lack of side buttons forces me to change my bindings too much, at least in more modern shooters, and you can't judge the feeling of a sensor in a mouse that doesn't fit.

Having more FPS is certainly a good thing but I wouldn't judge a sensor by one spec, there is much more to that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VxO2*
> 
> Still a little bit wierd that it is that low.
> Since every optical(gaming) sensor had over 6000fps
> When can we expect your review?
> I mean the Kinzu v2 pro is out since yesterday


It is indeed, at least for a modern gaming sensor.

There won't be a real review from me.


----------



## Skylit

Please understand that these are opinions of my time with beta versions and may or may not represent the final product.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vikhr*
> 
> Some questions for the testers when they're available:
> 1. Does the Pixart sensor have any acceleration? *Yes and no. It hits positive acceleration once it approaches the malfunction rate.*
> 2. Does the sensor have any prediction or jitter? *Prediction? Yes if you would like to call it that. It's lower than most early Avago based gaming sensors, but if you absolutely hate linear correction, you may get annoyed.*
> 3. The spec list for the Kana and Kinzu state different tracking speeds, is this a typo or do they track differently? *They have different variations of the same sensor.* *Kana was upgraded in terms of performance.*
> 4. What kind of perfect control speeds were you getting with the Kinzu and Kana? *Close to spec. 70~ and 135~ IPS. I wouldn't recommend the Kinzu v2 if you use a low sensitivity and swipe with your full arm.*
> 5. As someone that loves the WMO but is getting frustrated with the low perfect control speed, would you use the Kinzu V2 over one? *Yes and No. WMO has a higher max malfunction rate. Perfect control is slightly higher than the early intellimice bumped over 200hz.*
> 6. I recently tried a IMO 1.1 and had problems with my ring finger hitting the right side button, do you experience the same problem with the Kana and/or can you turn off the side buttons? *If you palm, you may accidentally hit mouse 5. Didn't experience any trouble clawing. Shape and size is almost identical to the WMO. Only thing "1.1" is the side buttons on each side.*
> 7. What are your general opinions of each mouse and would you recommend them to avid WMO/1.1 fans? *External build of the Kinzu v2 is like the original, but glossy. I didn't really care for the Kana's build, but I honestly don't have final samples to determine that. Internals aren't any thing special, but that's my opinion.*
> 8. Is the Kinzu V2 Pro worth getting over the normal V2? *Its up to you. Better mouse feet and Omron switches. My beta model used omron d2fc-f-7n on every switch, but that isn't likely on retail. The TTC 159 series is actually rated for 10m clicks according to their website.*
> 9. How is the scroll wheel on both mice? What would you compare them to? *Early beta samples used the same TTC encoder found in Kinzu v1. 2nd Kana sample was unmarked and felt slightly looser than the first.*
> 10. How much force is required to use the middle mouse button, I use middle mouse on my WMO for PTT. *Ehh. Medium-Heavy~. Wheel is the smallest on the Kinzu. Requires more pressure. Kana's is a little larger, less pressure.*
> 11. Is it still possible to make Kinzuadders with the Kinzu V2? *Still has a dual PCB main-daughter design, but I'm unsure if that will change with final retail models. the shell is also slightly modified for the newer PCB.*
> 
> *ATTN. I've been busy with School as I have finals this week. If I don't respond within a few hours I'm likely in class.*


----------



## vocroth

^

What is the perfect controll speed in m/s? And when does it start malfuntioning in m/s?


----------



## Sencha

Would I be all right with the Kinzu v2 @ 30cm/360?.......intellimouse 3.0 @ 500hz was just about ok....there was neg but I could deal with it. Thanks for taking the time Skylit


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Would I be all right with the Kinzu v2 @ 30cm/360?.......intellimouse 3.0 @ 500hz was just about ok....there was neg but I could deal with it. Thanks for taking the time Skylit


You may or may not have trouble. With large swipes, I could hit malfunction rate with similar settings.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vocroth*
> 
> ^
> What is the perfect controll speed in m/s? And when does it start malfuntioning in m/s?


A little after or around 1.8m/s and around 3.5m/s for the Kana Surface dependent. Malfunction curve seems immediate.


----------



## Mong

So the Kana does have path correction, too? -__-


----------



## v4mp1

What a shame.


----------



## Vikhr

Thank you very much for answering my questions. I may take a look at the Kana, honestly the amount of angle snapping on my old G5 didn't really bother me so I think I would be fine with what the Pixart sensor has, it's just a bit disappointing to hear that the Kinzu isn't up to snuff in terms of tracking speed.


----------



## VxO2

The kinzu and the Kana are using the the same pixart Sensor as it is in the Roccat Kova+ right?

Well no wonder why they would suck.


----------



## fasti

What's the surface (top curve) length measure from back to the start of the scrollwheel?


----------



## mikez0r

based off skylits info i think the zowie am is the way to go. If you can find one without grinding buttons.


----------



## v4mp1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikez0r*
> 
> based off skylits info i think the zowie am is the way to go. If you can find one without grinding buttons.


or the kana...


----------



## Skylit

Kana uses the -H variation of the PAW3305DK. (PAW3305DK-H) The sensor modified on the bottom to fit right into the 0.5x lens.

PS: I have pictures of the Kinzu v2, but they're not mine









Kinda wanted Derp to comment, but I guess he would like a confirmation from kimrom.


----------



## jeffxx

Looks like the trusty WMO isn't coming off my desk. Oh well.


----------



## sixxxxxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> You may or may not have trouble. With large swipes, I could hit malfunction rate with similar settings.
> A little after or around 1.8m/s and around 3.5m/s for the Kana Surface dependent. Malfunction curve seems immediate.


Sorry but if you can reiterate, are you saying the Kana has a perfect control speed of 3.5 m/s?


----------



## Vikhr

Alright, Kinzuadder it is :/


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sixxxxxx*
> 
> Sorry but if you can reiterate, are you saying the Kana has a perfect control speed of 3.5 m/s?


Minimum. Higher on certain pads. Granted Max CPI range is lower and interpolated on the 1600/3200 CPI settings.

I don't understand why 1600 CPI required interpolation though.


----------



## sixxxxxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Minimum. Higher on certain pads. Granted Max CPI range is lower and interpolated on the 1600/3200 CPI settings.
> I don't understand why 1600 CPI required interpolation though.


Holy crap, so the Kana is pretty good I take it?


----------



## end0rphine

Skylit: Do you like the Kana?


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Skylit: Do you like the Kana?


I can't give you a legitimate answer as I'm not aware of retail build quality and feel. The 2nd model I received used better ABS plastic, but I wasn't too impressed.

Removing the electrical tape over the sensor area caused the red LED light to shine through the shell. kinda tacky








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sixxxxxx*
> 
> Holy crap, so the Kana is pretty good I take it?


In terms of max IPS, it's good. I'm not really fond of the Pixart sensors though.

While it didn't bother me as much as Derp, there was a noticeable bug that would occur every so often where the cursor would randomly jump to the right. (I could feel it in game randomly) It's reproducible paint, but you have to try and wait until it kicks in. I'm not claiming anything, but it may be due to lower sensor FPS. (Older low FPS Agilent sensors used to skip fairly easily)

Is this fixed for retail? I don't know.


----------



## nlmiller0015

Skylit so would it be better to get the zowie am and do you know if there any issues with it. I had hopes for SteelSeries the only things im going to use from them now on is there gaming mouse pads


----------



## illwill

man these mice sound disappointing to say the least. steelseries is all marketing


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> While it didn't bother me as much as Derp, there was a noticeable bug that would occur every so often where the cursor would randomly jump to the right. (I could feel it in game randomly) It's reproducible paint, but you have to try and wait until it kicks in. I'm not claiming anything, but it may be due to lower sensor FPS. (Older low FPS Agilent sensors used to skip fairly easily)
> Is this fixed for retail? I don't know.


That was the question I had for Kim... In the OP he mentioned bugs that were fixed but my updated samples still have this bug.

If anyone wants to see an example then take a look at the bottom of my Mico review which is another mouse with a pixart sensor that shares the same bug. Only Pixart sensors do this.

I have been following this thread but I haven't bothered posting much because of the question above and the fact that Skylit's statements would mirror mine perfectly to the point where I would just be spamming the thread repeating the same things that have already been said.


----------



## end0rphine

So the bug happens when you press the mouse3 button? Why does it do that I wonder..


----------



## popobear

Now it really bother me ( after reading the replies by tester ) , should I buy Steelseries KANA / Kinzu v2 Pro or not , can someone help me with this


----------



## mikez0r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popobear*
> 
> Now it really bother me ( after reading the replies by tester ) , should I buy Steelseries KANA / Kinzu v2 Pro or not , can someone help me with this


i say wait till retail versions are tested and maybe these beta bugs were fixed.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> So the bug happens when you press the mouse3 button? Why does it do that I wonder..


No, I only described how I first noticed the bug while scrolling in Firefox. The jump happens when you're using the mouse regardless of which buttons you press and it doesn't just jump to the sides during vertical movements it will also jump up or down several pixels during horizontal movement.

Some might downplay this bug like they do with other tracking bugs but not me as it does trigger during perfectly normal gaming conditions. That and I'm picky as hell but I assume that's why I was voted into this thing in the first place.









But for all we know the retail versions of the Kana and KinzuV2 might have this problem fixed.


----------



## journey

Thought I'd post my impressions of a retail kinzu v2 pro as I've been following this these forums a long time. I played with it for awhile this morning at a warehouse of a major Scandinavian retailer where I work at. The thing that I was able to deduct from the ~20 mins of testing was that the sensor just feels plain weird. I really don't know how to describe this better, it's just like people have commented on other pixart sensor mouses like the mico etc. The tracking just feels a bit sloppy compared to the other mouse that was sitting at the office computer - a WMO. I didn't hit the bug skylit and derp told about but then again I used the mouse for such a short period that the bug might occur on the long run eventually - who knows. This mouse was black and I really didn't like the glossy top either so I think I'm going to pass yet another ss product.


----------



## Sencha

Not sounding good. Thanks for testing and reporting all. Going to look elsewhere. Maybe SS will sort something decent for the V3


----------



## Bullveyr

My Kinzu v2 Silver Pro came in a Retail Box, so it's fair to say that it's the final retail version.
All in all I can pretty much confirm what Skylit posted but I have a few things to add:
Quote:


> It hits positive acceleration once it approaches the malfunction rate


Mine never showed pos. accel. in any way.

Allthough the max. speeds aren't that good at least I never looked at the flloor when I swiped it too fast.









It shows less jitter (Kai.G3) than my Xai but compared to some good Avago optical it's worse.

I haven't tested for the "jump bug" with the newest FW yet, I'll do that later at home.

The pcb/internal pics are saved on my home PC, I'll post them later.


----------



## Skylit

My apologies. I was in a hurry and needed a way to describe the bug.









It isn't really positive accel so to say, but once the sensor reached it's malfunction area, my cursor randomly move for a given distance on it's own. It didn't happen all the time, but when it did, it was sure annoying.

I think Derp has also experienced this?


----------



## Sencha

So what's your overall summary. Complete fail or acceptable with flaws?


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> No, I only described how I first noticed the bug while scrolling in Firefox. The jump happens when you're using the mouse regardless of which buttons you press and it doesn't just jump to the sides during vertical movements it will also jump up or down several pixels during horizontal movement.


Derp, Skylit, Bullveyr do you guys think this can be fixed by a firmware update? I hope it's not a permanent hardware bug like the PTE lift off one.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Removing the electrical tape over the sensor area caused the red LED light to shine through the shell. kinda tacky


What electrical tape? You used the "tape fix"? What's the LOD? Is it the same for Kinzu and Kana?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> In terms of max IPS, it's good. I'm not really fond of the Pixart sensors though.


Why not? What's wrong with it (besides the bug)?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journey*
> 
> The tracking just feels a bit sloppy compared to the other mouse that was sitting at the office computer - a WMO.


Can you elaborate? What does sloppy mean ... skipping?


----------



## Jalal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> So what's your overall summary. Complete fail or acceptable with flaws?


Now that they had persnal contact with SS and so on they couldn't call it fail, they can only point out the flaws which is fine. Thus it's our job to call it that if its the case.


----------



## BiGsTaR

"What kind of perfect control speeds were you getting with the Kinzu and Kana? Close to spec. 70~ and 135~ IPS."
Well I don't realy understand it. Is it 70 IPS for perfect control and 135 IPS for malfunction speed? Or is it both perfect control just on other DPI's and Hz?


----------



## journey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *journey*
> 
> The tracking just feels a bit sloppy compared to the other mouse that was sitting at the office computer - a WMO.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you elaborate? What does sloppy mean ... skipping?
Click to expand...

The tracking is not as precise as I had hoped. Compared to the mice I use frequently at home (mainly intellimouses and deathadders) the tracking felt somewhat peculiar and it seemed to lack a feeling of control. I really cannot describe this better since English is not my native language and I don't possess the vocabulary to go into the very details of this matter. I think it has more to do with the Pixart sensors overall as I found these same subtle inconsistencies with the Mico, too. They are fine in terms of overall tracking and technical specs. but there's just something I can't put my finger on so to speak.

E. Found the quote-button.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journey*
> 
> The tracking is not as precise as I had hoped. Compared to the mice I use frequently at home (mainly intellimouses and deathadders) the tracking felt somewhat peculiar and it seemed to lack a feeling of control. I really cannot describe this better since English is not my native language and I don't possess the vocabulary to go into the very details of this matter. I think it has more to do with the Pixart sensors overall as I found these same subtle inconsistencies with the Mico, too. They are fine in terms of overall tracking and technical specs. but there's just something I can't put my finger on so to speak.
> E. Found the quote-button.


Thanks for answering! Well i guess the low fps does affect tracking after all. If it doesn't have acceleration, jitter and it doesn't skip then this is the only answer.


----------



## journey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> Thanks for answering! Well i guess the low fps does affect tracking after all. If it doesn't have acceleration, jitter and it doesn't skip then this is the only answer.


I'm going to pick up one of these Kinzu's at the end of my shift and do some thorough testing when I get home. I really want to like this mouse and I even thought it could be a worthy successor to my aging WMO but judging from the already lackluster previews I am not expecting much.

FYI the quick testing was done on a Steelseries QcK Heavy.


----------



## Derp

I finally got a hold of SS (my fault, not theirs) and they believe that my beta samples may be flawed. I should be receiving a new Kana and KinzuV2 soon so I will be able to confirm or deny that the bug still exists on the finished mice.

There's still hope, don't write these mice off just yet.


----------



## Sencha

Thanks for the update Derp. I'm still holding a little hope for the Kinzu v2. The weight and shape are just too good for me. It doesnt need to be flawless just reasonably workable.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I finally got a hold of SS (my fault, not theirs) and they believe that my beta samples may be flawed. I should be receiving a new Kana and KinzuV2 soon so I will be able to confirm or deny that the bug still exists on the finished mice.
> There's still hope, don't write these mice off just yet.


Waiting with bated breath


----------



## h0lm

Could one of you post a picture of the kana, kinzu v2, and a io1.1 next to each to compare shapes?

Also this thread is just as depressing as reading about the zowie am. It's been ten years since intellimouse came out, how difficult can it be to make a proper mouse by now.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Thanks for the update Derp. I'm still holding a little hope for the Kinzu v2. The weight and shape are just too good for me. It doesnt need to be flawless just reasonably workable.


... as 1.1/3.0 were/are.


----------



## h0lm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> ... as 1.1/3.0 were/are.


yea which is why i use them, but the build quality is ****e and i need to be able to do 1000 or 500hz pr standard.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *h0lm*
> 
> Could one of you post a picture of the kana, kinzu v2, and a io1.1 next to each to compare shapes?
> Also this thread is just as depressing as reading about the zowie am. It's been ten years since intellimouse came out, how difficult can it be to make a proper mouse by now.


I know right. Its like mouse users must have some terrible collective karma going on. Loved the Zowie AM but oh....you can't actually press the buttons LOL....damn should of done a little more testing perhaps


----------



## joypanchao

now we need more pics of those will-be-released mice

who can post some


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Sry for the spam. But seriously, the wait is killing me! I feel like cartman waiting for the nintendo wii. I even refuse to game with my mamba in fear of getting used to the weird shape(imo).


----------



## v4mp1

I bet the right side button on the kana will be annoying for palm grip users ;(

But i have done a simple trick on my old 1.1, fixed the button from the inside shell with hot glue.


----------



## krokdylz

For those who are interested in seeing the Correction of the Kinzu v2 Pro
Done with [email protected]


----------



## Sencha

Thanks for taking the time to do that. Do you own the mouse? if so how are you finding it overall. I nearly made my self like the original.....but it was too crap....I really hope I can like this mouse and deal with its short comings.


----------



## Kalashnikov

They do well on this although there's a little AC here but still be fine


----------



## krokdylz

Yeah, I just unboxed it so I can't say much right now.
And I am definately no a hardcore Tester.
I can say that I didn't feel any weirdness trackingwise so far and haven't experienced the tracking bug.
Accelerationwise i just did some swipes on my desktop and would say that midsense user like me ([email protected]) should be fine.
And as you can see the correction is by far not as hardcore as in the kinzu 1 where you could draw perfect squares with no effort


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krokdylz*
> 
> Yeah, I just unboxed it so I can't say much right now.
> And I am definately no a hardcore Tester.
> I can say that I didn't feel any weirdness trackingwise so far and haven't experienced the tracking bug.
> Accelerationwise i just did some swipes on my desktop and would say that midsense user like me ([email protected]) should be fine.
> And as you can see the correction is by far not as hardcore as in the kinzu 1 where you could draw perfect squares with no effort


Sweet I'm 30cm/360 too....lets hook up for sex. j/k

Glad you're enjoying it. Anything else you fancy posting up would be awesome. I'm living off these scraps right now


----------



## Kalashnikov

Yeah, May I ask u that how the skin of this make u feel ?It's like Kinzu Red or not ? The tracking is ok ?
Thanks


----------



## nyshak

Looks like the Zowie AM (hopefully without the button bug) is the right way for me. Thanks for the in depth reviews.


----------



## krokdylz

So, now i played a BF3 Session for 45Mins with it and didn't experience weird tracking issues or this tracking bug. (maybe really fixed ?)
I was around [email protected] cause i didn't wanna change my standard settings and had no problems with turning at all in matters of malfunction or anything.
The Grip isn't bad at all, kinda like the sensei on the sides but ofc better grip cause it is smaller and the glossy top gets grip with a little playing. (heavenly bodyfluids







)
I really can't tell if this would turn into a slippery nightmare like it does with the sensei if you really play a monstersession for hours, but for now it's really nice.
Btw. cause i didn't mention that so far, i am testing here on a Razer Goliathus Control Standard not Fragged.

EDIT: Just checked the Liftoff which is between 1 and 2 cds
you get jittery tracking with 1 cd and no tracking with 2 @ goliathus


----------



## Sencha

Sweet. My hopes have been re-kindled.


----------



## Bullveyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> Derp, Skylit, Bullveyr do you guys think this can be fixed by a firmware update? I hope it's not a permanent hardware bug like the PTE lift off one.


Unlike the PTE it shouldn't be caused by the general way the sensor works, so I guess at least theoretically it can be fixed by PixArt but I wouldn't count on it.
Quote:


> What electrical tape? You used the "tape fix"?




Iirc you can find something similar in a G9x
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jalal*
> 
> Now that they had persnal contact with SS and so on they couldn't call it fail, they can only point out the flaws which is fine. Thus it's our job to call it that if its the case.


I'll try to be nice in forums in general, so I don't like the term "fail", not because I got a free mouse from them.

The decision to use a lens on the Kinzu v2 to double the CPI but half the max. speed I call pretty fail from my POV as a gamer.
Gladly as a gamer I don't have to care that the higher CPI probably earns them more customers than they will loose because of the lower max. speed.

All in all the Kinzu v2 might be an improvement of the original one but it could have been much better (without too many effort).

Some pics of the internals (sry for the size)














Quote:


> Originally Posted by *h0lm*
> 
> Also this thread is just as depressing as reading about the zowie am. It's been ten years since intellimouse came out, how difficult can it be to make a proper mouse by now.


To be honest, many people who really love this mice would probably trash them if they were released today.


----------



## Pyroh

Can't wait for this :

http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=2173191

JEAH!


----------



## krameriffic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pyroh*
> 
> Can't wait for this :
> http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=2173191
> JEAH!


I don't know, the more I read about mice using the recent Avago series optical sensors, the more I wish that the Razer exclusive 3668/3888 was just available to everyone, particularly the companies that don't **** around with designing the other aspects of their mice. I wish they'd realize that there are people who take the guts out of a Deathadder and mod them into the shell of the Kinzu because it is seriously that good of a sensor. It's just a stupid situation all around. It's like they keep willfully making sensors that are inferior to the ones that came out years ago.


----------



## 337drew

Can a reviewer please commend on the CPI steps that each mouse uses.

I'm under the assumption that the Kinzu v2 uses the same 400/800/1600/3200 steps as the original Kinzu, and cannot be something in between like say 500CPI. Is this correct? Does the Kinzu v2 have on board memory so that after you configure the mouse via software then uninstall it?

As for the Kana, I'm under the assumption is has on board memory and can be any CPI from 400-3200 in 1CPI steps. Confirm/deny =)

Thanks guys!


----------



## Bullveyr

Kinzu v2 has only 400/800/1600/3200, don't ask why the didn't include 1200/2000/2400/2800, that should be native sensor resolutions with that lens.

The CPI you set are saved on the mouse, you don't need to have the SteelSeries Engine running.


----------



## Lee79

I miss my old Ikari Laser it was a great mouse but like most user the left mouse button switch failed double clicking with one press and when you spend a lot on a mouse and it fails after a 6 months it's not good. I will get a new Steelseries if I hear the durability is better on these new ones. It was one of my favourite mice nice shape and sensor just shame about the switches.


----------



## Skylit

If you were willing to defecate your mouse sensor and find a 0.5x pixart lens, you *might* be able to squeeze higher tracking rates out of the Kinzu v2.

400/800/1600/3200>200/400/800/1600

The registry settings are similar, just halved. I'm not sure if specific the values were "tuned" to each lens though. I'm certainly not advising anything ;D


----------



## journey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krameriffic*
> 
> I don't know, the more I read about mice using the recent Avago series optical sensors, the more I wish that the Razer exclusive 3668/3888 was just available to everyone, particularly the companies that don't **** around with designing the other aspects of their mice. I wish they'd realize that there are people who take the guts out of a Deathadder and mod them into the shell of the Kinzu because it is seriously that good of a sensor. It's just a stupid situation all around. It's like they keep willfully making sensors that are inferior to the ones that came out years ago.


Companies like SS tend to realize the fact that they really don't have to reach the whole marketing segment to make profit. Casual gamers who are blissfully oblivious to some flaws or drawbacks a product might have are by far the largest chunk of paying customers. Power users are and have always been a niche.


----------



## Skylit

I introduce the KANAZU.










Swag.

Edit: Clip fixed lift off issue.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krameriffic*
> 
> I don't know, the more I read about mice using the recent Avago series optical sensors, the more I wish that the Razer exclusive 3668/3888 was just available to everyone, particularly the companies that don't **** around with designing the other aspects of their mice. I wish they'd realize that there are people who take the guts out of a Deathadder and mod them into the shell of the Kinzu because it is seriously that good of a sensor. It's just a stupid situation all around. It's like they keep willfully making sensors that are inferior to the ones that came out years ago.


S3888 kinda is. Just need to wait for a solid firmware set for the 3090. coding isn't ez.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I introduce the KANAZU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swag.


Wait whats that?


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Wait whats that?


Kinzu w/ Kana PAW3305DK-H plastic insert and 0.5x lens. lol


----------



## Bullveyr

He changed the Kinzu lens with the one from the Kana.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bullveyr*
> 
> He changed the Kinzu lens with the one from the Kana.


Not just the lens. I had the bust open the plastic protector over the sensor itself. The 3305DK-H and 3305DK variate


----------



## VxO2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I introduce the KANAZU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Swag.
> Too bad the lift off is literally under 1 CD and only works on a couple pads.
> S3888 kinda is. Just need to wait for a solid firmware set for the 3090. coding isn't ez.


why didnt you tested precision and smoothness?
Or is the sensor that ****ed up?


----------



## VxO2

double post sry


----------



## innov

Hi, the following question is redirected towards all of you who have tested Kana:

Do you think it would be worth it for me to wait for Kana _*if*_ hypothetically that "jump" sensor bug is fixed instead of buying a Zowie EC2 as a Xmas present? I don't really care about prediction and I would be using the EC2 on 500dpi so the LOD bug is not my concern.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VxO2*
> 
> why didnt you tested precision and smoothness?
> Or is the sensor that ****ed up?


I honestly only use this program to show estimated max tracking rates.

I don't really trust it for accurate results, but it may be close









It does a good job at determining if polling is stable though







(My specific Kinzu v2 may be glitched as others apparently poll up to 9xx hz )

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *innov*
> 
> Hi, the following question is redirected towards all of you who have tested Kana:
> Do you think it would be worth it for me to wait for Kana _*if*_ hypothetically that "jump" sensor bug is fixed instead of buying a Zowie EC2 as a Xmas present? I don't really care about prediction and I would be using the EC2 on 500dpi so the LOD bug is not my concern.


Well I noticed and felt it, but it didn't really bother me as in individual. I'm not sure if it's fixable as other Pixart 3305's do the same. We'll see!

Also. I solved my pad problem. First results were with the sensor eye exposed. After swapping the plastic insert from the Kana's PAW3305DK-H and bolting it down tight, it tracks a little over 1 CD.

The KANAZU is an option if you can find a donor mouse using the PAW or PAN 3305DK-H and 0.5x lens.


----------



## VxO2

another question do you know the fps rate at the kana? with the other lens it should have twice as much fps as the kinzu right? or not?


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VxO2*
> 
> another question do you know the fps rate at the kana? with the other lens it should have twice as much fps as the kinzu right? or not?


No. The sensor architecture is designed to run at 3600 FPS.


----------



## innov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> No. The sensor architecture is designed to run at 3600 FPS.


Does the relatively low FPS have innate negative repercussions that are observable by an experienced user?


----------



## v4mp1

The questions should be, why SS is such a "crap" company.

Why the heck do we have to tune a new mouse ?

Kinzu v2 a gaming mouse with max 1,8m/s, SS are u serious ?

I dont believe that.......

SS Kinzu v2 Homepage:
Quote:


> These specs simply say that regardless of your frantic movements, the mouse will consistently deliver, especially for fast-paced FPS games.


hahahaha 4 sure ss.....


----------



## end0rphine

Skylit what mousepad did you test your kanazu on?


----------



## VxO2

for 20euros i would buy another kinzu but 45 is too much for that hardware.

I am out
gn8 guys

Thank you guys for your answers


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *innov*
> 
> Does the relatively low FPS have innate negative repercussions that are observable by an experienced user?


Early 2k FPS Agilent/Avago sensors used to "skip" with high speed motion. I'm not entirely sure if that was due max IPS limits or not.

Simply put, it's a possible factor.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Skylit what mousepad did you test your kanazu on?


Raindrop XL, QCK, HIEN KAI.G3 RED, Talent.

Little over 2.4mm on all pads after I fixed that little issue.


----------



## avinin1

Oh...another let down.


----------



## toopz

I knew that pixart sensor wasnt that good enough for gaming! I used 2 gaming mice with the same sensor. Its just doest feel right.








Use any lens or do whatever but 3200 fps wont be enough; for good gaming mouse should have atleast 6400fps or above for better tracking.
Tracking will be ***** with that sensor.

Old Kinzu had far better sensor! it had like 9200fps! only drivers/ firmware were buggy.
You could use it without drivers out of the box; with no problem; just miner prediction but tracking was nice!

Steelseries/ Kim Rom WHY??? WHY!!! Why didnt you guys used A3090 sensor with little bit of tweaking.
It is one of the best optical sensor on the market at this time.
You could have stop members on this forum to look no further in mice.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toopz*
> 
> Steelseries/ Kim Rom WHY??? WHY!!! Why didnt you guys used A3090 sensor with little bit of tweaking.
> It is one of the best optical sensor on the market at this time.
> You could have stop members on this forum to look no further in mice.


They couldn't use it with Kinzu because then a 30$ mouse would've outperformed the "great" Sensei. But they should've atleast built Kana with it.


----------



## 337drew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> They couldn't use it with Kinzu because then a 30$ mouse would've outperformed the "great" Sensei. But they should've atleast built Kana with it.


Bow to the master


----------



## Skylit

I like the Sensei's tracking quality.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journey*
> 
> Companies like SS tend to realize the fact that they really don't have to reach the whole marketing segment to make profit. Casual gamers who are blissfully oblivious to some flaws or drawbacks a product might have are by far the largest chunk of paying customers. Power users are and have always been a niche.


This. Unfortunately we are not the target audience. Although its weird that SS would give samples to forum members on here, surely they knew what their expectations/findings would be?


----------



## illwill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toopz*
> 
> Old Kinzu had far better sensor! it had like 9200fps! only drivers/ firmware were buggy.
> You could use it without drivers out of the box; with no problem; just miner prediction but tracking was nice!


Really? I've never tried one but I was under the impression it had a lot of accel that you couldn't disable


----------



## v4mp1

@Skylit, can we have more pics from kana pls ?


----------



## nyshak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> This. Unfortunately we are not the target audience. Although its weird that SS would give samples to forum members on here, surely they knew what their expectations/findings would be?


Yeah I don't understand their motives in this case too. Skylit & Co. have the highest expectations when it comes to sensor performance and the means to test it. Epic fail SS? Or did you really believe you had re-invented the wheel with the Kinzu v2 and the Kana? Well. Back to the drawing board.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyshak*
> 
> Yeah I don't understand their motives in this case too. Skylit & Co. have the highest expectations when it comes to sensor performance and the means to test it. Epic fail SS? Or did you really believe you had re-invented the wheel with the Kinzu v2 and the Kana? Well. Back to the drawing board.


I have high expectations, but I haven't necessarily claimed the sensor was bad.







I commented that I didn't care for it, but that's my opinion as individual.

Will the Kana's variation of the sensor work for a good majority of the population? Of course it will, but it isn't necessarily ground breaking if you understand where I'm coming from.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v4mp1*
> 
> @Skylit, can we have more pics from kana pls ?


Will do after my phones charged up


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I have high expectations, but I haven't necessarily claimed the sensor was bad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I commented that I didn't care for it, but that's my opinion as individual.
> Will the Kana's variation of the sensor work for a good majority of the population? Of course it will, but it isn't necessarily ground breaking if you understand where I'm coming from.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will do after my phones charged up


OK! Let's say i challenge you to a 1v1 (pick your favourite fps). Winner goes home with 1 trillion dollars ... what mouse will you use?


----------



## BiGsTaR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> OK! Let's say i challenge you to a 1v1 (pick your favourite fps). Winner goes home with 1 trillion dollars ... what mouse will you use?


I bump this question!


----------



## v4mp1

KinzuAdder! =)


----------



## BiGsTaR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v4mp1*
> 
> KinzuAdder! =)


Custom designs don't count! And KinzuAdder has no working side buttons


----------



## joypanchao

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Will do after my phones charged up


when&#8230;&#8230;

I just wanna have a look at its side button shape

please


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> OK! Let's say i challenge you to a 1v1 (pick your favourite fps). Winner goes home with 1 trillion dollars ... what mouse will you use?


Thats a good one!


----------



## end0rphine

WMO cause I've used it for years!


----------



## nyshak

@ Skylit: If I understand your review correctly, the mouse ain't what it's hyped up to be. Especially the Kinzu v2 and SS marketing BS to say it will always do its job no matter the "frantic movements".

To me, SS failed with both of these. And when it comes to the sensei you'll get a repackaged Xai sensor with so much useless stuff attached to it, its a disgrace.

Why Kim Rom came here, knowing that we aren't his target group and dishing out samples for review is beyond me









Sure, I'm happy about it as I now know that I must not buy one of these rodents.


----------



## v4mp1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyshak*
> 
> @ Skylit: If I understand your review correctly, the mouse ain't what it's hyped up to be. Especially the Kinzu v2 and SS marketing BS to say it will always do its job no matter the "frantic movements".
> To me, SS failed with both of these. And when it comes to the sensei you'll get a repackaged Xai sensor with so much useless stuff attached to it, its a disgrace.
> Why Kim Rom came here, knowing that we aren't his target group and dishing out samples for review is beyond me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, I'm happy about it as I now know that I must not buy one of these rodents.


When the Pixart left/right tracking sensor bug is fixed in the retail kana, then it could be a good choice.


----------



## jeffxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> WMO cause I've used it for years!


I've wasted so much money trying new mice and always end up with the WMO. they need a higher dpi version of it for those who use high res.


----------



## VxO2

Well Delpan from Sk got the kinzu v2 a month ago and played on a tournament with it. He just had problems with it. That says everything. The matter was on fast movements the crusor would skip randomly.
Also starix(navi) wanted to play with the kinzu v2 at WCG and he used the intelli again.

They should sit with STMicroelectronics together and build a new ******* sensor without accel.
I mean the tracking from intelli is awesome. i even liked the neg accel at 125hz
the Kinzu v1 also had exellent tracking but the accel is annoying as hell.


----------



## BiGsTaR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VxO2*
> 
> Well Delpan from Sk got the kinzu v2 a month ago and played on a tournament with it. He just had problems with it. That says everything. The matter was on fast movements the crusor would skip randomly.
> Also starix(navi) wanted to play with the kinzu v2 at WCG and he used the intelli again.
> They should sit with STMicroelectronics together and build a new ******* sensor without accel.
> I mean the tracking from intelli is awesome. i even liked the neg accel at 125hz
> the Kinzu v1 also had exellent tracking but the accel is annoying as hell.


Well, in my opinion they should just take Avago 3668/S3888 work on a LOD, and make a perfect mouse.


----------



## Skar

holy ****, did you guys notice the kinzu v2 and v2 pro prices?

just googled and found it for 39.9 for the kinzu v2 and 44.9 for v2 pro.

I was expecting somethign like 29 and 34 following the old model.


----------



## mydezi

Uhm, will this lower maxspeed bother me as i'm using my MX518 @ 1650DPI and thought about buying the Kana Oo


----------



## Pyroh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BiGsTaR*
> 
> Custom designs don't count! And KinzuAdder has no working side buttons


Why not? It's just a mouse in the end, and besides side buttons aren't really needed imo (but still quite useful).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v4mp1*
> 
> When the Pixart left/right tracking sensor bug is fixed in the retail kana, then it could be a good choice.


Indeed, but it's not when, but if with companies like SS


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VxO2*
> 
> Well Delpan from Sk got the kinzu v2 a month ago and played on a tournament with it. He just had problems with it. That says everything. The matter was on fast movements the crusor would skip randomly.
> Also starix(navi) wanted to play with the kinzu v2 at WCG and he used the intelli again.
> They should sit with STMicroelectronics together and build a new ******* sensor without accel.
> I mean the tracking from intelli is awesome. i even liked the neg accel at 125hz
> the Kinzu v1 also had exellent tracking but the accel is annoying as hell.


Source?
Accel is always referred to as a bad feature on this forum. Some people actualy do like accel(like me).
It IS a matter of taste. Not a plague that ss HAS to eradicate.


----------



## jung1e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VxO2*
> 
> Well Delpan from Sk got the kinzu v2 a month ago and played on a tournament with it. He just had problems with it. That says everything. The matter was on fast movements the crusor would skip randomly.
> Also starix(navi) wanted to play with the kinzu v2 at WCG and he used the intelli again.
> They should sit with STMicroelectronics together and build a new ******* sensor without accel.
> I mean the tracking from intelli is awesome. i even liked the neg accel at 125hz
> the Kinzu v1 also had exellent tracking but the accel is annoying as hell.


I think Delpan had problems with the Sensei and then he went back to Xai RUSE.


----------



## eko

I saw on few sites today that Kinzu Pro V2 black is now released in Europe? I just hope I will get new Kinzu/Kana as soon as it is possible... My M510 is dying more and more... I am just waiting for that peeeeeeeeeeep straight signal any moment... xD


----------



## VxO2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jung1e*
> 
> I think Delpan had problems with the Sensei and then he went back to Xai RUSE.


He played with the kinzu v2 at SEC . it wasnt the sensei or the ruse either.
beside that he switched to the ikari(look last event WCG)
before that he used the xai again thats right


----------



## LoveKnight

How long do we have to wait for the reviews of these mice? Next year huh? I still have a Steelseries 4HD mousepad and hope it can work well with these mice. Hope so!


----------



## krameriffic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARIKOmagic*
> 
> Source?
> Accel is always referred to as a bad feature on this forum. Some people actualy do like accel(like me).
> It IS a matter of taste. Not a plague that ss HAS to eradicate.


It shouldn't be built permanently into the sensor because it's easy to add positive acceleration and get nonlinear response while it's next to impossible to take nonlinear response and linearize it.


----------



## v4mp1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Will do after my phones charged up


Status?


----------



## Kalashnikov

Well, there are just some info as well as comments about the new mice of the testers so u guys please don't judge them so quick, don't judge like u used them for a long time and can't stand anymore. Wait for official products and reviews then it's ur time, testers' comments just for referencing.

Actually, at first time I really didn't give a **** on Auto Correct, Ac, Prediction and played so well with my DA/Kinzu/Xai/Sensei..., just took time to get use to them at the beginning. Later when too many pp talked about those bugs that I didn't even mention them in games, everything got bad. Focusing on them too much made me worse everyday until I finally swept them away of my mind, played like I used to. It worked and took back my sensation, my smart and accuracy. So I recommend u guys, please don't care so much on details, those are just the reference not decided factor.


----------



## oltros

http://it.donga.com/interview/7697/
http://it.donga.com/interview/7697/?page=2

(Korean) IT Donga Interviews Kim Rom


----------



## end0rphine

Google translate doesnt fare too well against korean lol.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Google translate doesnt fare too well against korean lol.


Sense two, Cana, kinju
ahahahahahaha

Silver Kinzu and white Kana look great. The sensors may not be so good, but everybody has to agree the shape and looks of Steelseries mice are the best.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I can't give you a legitimate answer as I'm not aware of retail build quality and feel. The 2nd model I received used better ABS plastic, but I wasn't too impressed.
> Removing the electrical tape over the sensor area caused the red LED light to shine through the shell. kinda tacky
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In terms of max IPS, it's good. I'm not really fond of the Pixart sensors though.
> *While it didn't bother me as much as Derp, there was a noticeable bug that would occur every so often where the cursor would randomly jump to the right.* (I could feel it in game randomly) It's reproducible paint, but you have to try and wait until it kicks in. I'm not claiming anything, but it may be due to lower sensor FPS. (Older low FPS Agilent sensors used to skip fairly easily)
> Is this fixed for retail? I don't know.


That was the bug Derp mention about the Zowie MiCO...

If they fix this on Kana. I'll go this over the Zowie AM.


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krameriffic*
> 
> It shouldn't be built permanently into the sensor because it's easy to add positive acceleration and get nonlinear response while it's next to impossible to take nonlinear response and linearize it.


True. Haven't thought of it in that way. Thx


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eko*
> 
> I saw on few sites today that Kinzu Pro V2 black is now released in Europe? I just hope I will get new Kinzu/Kana as soon as it is possible... My M510 is dying more and more... I am just waiting for that peeeeeeeeeeep straight signal any moment... xD


Didn't consider MX518/G400/G500 at all? Good mice, if you ask me.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kalashnikov*
> 
> Well, there are just some info as well as comments about the new mice of the testers so u guys please don't judge them so quick, don't judge like u used them for a long time and can't stand anymore. Wait for official products and reviews then it's ur time, testers' comments just for referencing.
> 
> Actually, at first time I really didn't give a **** on Auto Correct, Ac, Prediction and played so well with my DA/Kinzu/Xai/Sensei..., just took time to get use to them at the beginning. Later when too many pp talked about those bugs that I didn't even mentioned them in games, everything got bad. Focusing on them too much made me worse everyday until I finally swept them away of my mind, played like I used to. It worked and took back my sensation, my smart and accuracy. So I recommend u guys, don't care so much on details, those are just the reference not decided factor.


Normally I don't care about such things neither, but it was impossible for me to get used to the SteelSeries Kinzu v1 at all, honestly... And I really wanted to use it as "main mouse", it just didn't work as I wanted to.


----------



## duydangle

Really disappointed that kinzu v2 pro black only glossy


----------



## Kalashnikov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Normally I don't care about such things neither, but it was impossible for me to get used to the SteelSeries Kinzu v1 at all, honestly... And I really wanted to use it as "main mouse", it just didn't work as I wanted to.


Opposite to me, Kinzu is my main mouse


----------



## ColdRush

I have the original Kinzu and it's probably my favorite mouse. Simple and sleek, I like the matte coating too. I've been using it for a year or so now I believe, paired with a Qck Mini mouse pad









Unless I'm missing something the new Kinzu is only available as glossy, and I personally hate that. I will probably just buy a few v1s for when/if this kinzu fails on me. The sensor is good enough for me because I have my settings at exactly what I need, I've found that after a certain point the hardware no longer matters for me. It's more about skill then how fast your sensor can track, so mid range mice are good enough for me.


----------



## Kalashnikov

^
Yup.....


----------



## eko

Yes I did I used MX518 quiet few years ago, but now I want to go with SteelSeries... If it let me down I will come to Deathadder, I mean with it you can't go wrong... I want to give Kana a shot, then I will see Kinzu v2 Pro, and if those fail me, I will go with DA... : )


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ColdRush*
> 
> Unless I'm missing something the new Kinzu is only available as glossy, and I personally hate that.


http://steelseries.com/products/mice/steelseries-kinzu-v2 Black Kinzu v2 isn't glossy.


----------



## thuNDa

So I can see that the top of the kinzu v2 pro is glossy, but how are the sides?


----------



## hza

Rubber coated as far as I can see from pics.


----------



## vss vintorez

Why you call it "rubber coated" ? it's just a soft touch paint which will wear out in 2 month


----------



## hza

Isn't it the same like f.e. Xai? I've used a Xai over a year and it didn't wear out at all. Oh, and to your question. Mainly because of that. If Kinzu (v2) is different in this regard, I'm sorry.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Isn't it the same like f.e. Xai? I've used a Xai over a year and it didn't wear out at all. Oh, and to your question. Mainly because of that. If Kinzu (v2) is different in this regard, I'm sorry.


Kinzu v2 Black is the same as you are used in your XAI. (mine worn out quickly)


----------



## Sasuke2525

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARIKOmagic*
> 
> Source?
> Accel is always referred to as a bad feature on this forum. Some people actualy do like accel(like me).
> It IS a matter of taste. Not a plague that ss HAS to eradicate.


It is referred to as a bad feature because it makes you inconsistent in games.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sasuke2525*
> 
> It is referred to as a bad feature because *it makes you inconsistent in games*.


THAT IF AND ONLY IF, the acceleration is random.
In case the acceleration is fixed:
Move 1ips = 10px
Move 2ips = 20px
Move 3ips = 30px

As you see, it's no random(=inconsistent) you can predict where the cursor will be.
If your muscles can remember, not only distance but distance and speed. Accel is consistent as hell !


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> Why you call it "rubber coated" ? it's just a soft touch paint which will wear out in 2 month


it's not just some paint as far as i can see and feel.
It is something special and for me it seems that it will last forever on my kinzuadder.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> it's not just some paint as far as i can see and feel.
> It is something special and for me it seems that it will last forever on my kinzuadder.


Take a knife and grasp it xD you will see







.
It's paint. The duration depends in how much your hand sweats !


----------



## journey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> Take a knife and grasp it xD you will see
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> It's paint. The duration depends in how much your hand sweats !


I have had the Xai & Kinzu since the launch and neither of them shows any cosmetic signs of wear. On the contrary, I think the coating is one of the things SS might have pulled off just nice.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> THAT IF AND ONLY IF, the acceleration is random.
> In case the acceleration is fixed:
> Move 1ips = 10px
> Move 2ips = 20px
> Move 3ips = 30px
> As you see, it's no random(=inconsistent) you can predict where the cursor will be.
> If your muscles can remember, not only distance but distance and speed. Accel is consistent as hell !


You might wanna reconsider that. Your example is for perfect 1:1 tracking. In ips you measure the speed not the acceleration.
s = (d2 - d1)/(t2 - t1)

Acceleration is the rate of change of velocity with time:
a = (s2 - s1) / (t2 - t1)

Move 1ips = 10px
Move 2ips = 25px
Move 3ips = 40px

This is positive, fixed (not random) acceleration. It's not as bad as inconsistent acceleration, but it's still enough to mess with your aim. Sure you can get used to it, you can get used to anything, but your mind should focus on the game. You should't use your brain muscles to determine the speed you need to move your mouse in order to hit an enemy in fps.


----------



## Sasuke2525

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> THAT IF AND ONLY IF, the acceleration is random.
> In case the acceleration is fixed:
> Move 1ips = 10px
> Move 2ips = 20px
> Move 3ips = 30px
> As you see, it's no random(=inconsistent) you can predict where the cursor will be.
> If your muscles can remember, not only distance but distance and speed. Accel is consistent as hell !


You need to find a mouse that has consistent/fixed acceleration for that to work. I would rather use in-game settings if I was going to have acceleration.


----------



## Cek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> You might wanna reconsider that. Your example is for perfect 1:1 tracking. In ips you measure the speed not the acceleration.
> s = (d2 - d1)/(t2 - t1)
> Acceleration is the rate of change of velocity with time:
> a = (s2 - s1) / (t2 - t1)
> Move 1ips = 10px
> Move 2ips = 25px
> Move 3ips = 40px
> This is positive, fixed (not random) acceleration. It's not as bad as inconsistent acceleration, but it's still enough to mess with your aim. Sure you can get used to it, you can get used to anything, but your mind should focus on the game. You should't use your brain muscles to determine the speed you need to move your mouse in order to hit an enemy in fps.


so now can u tell me why almost all quakelive pros (cooller, cypher, rapha, k1llsen, avek) use acceleration?

accel is all preference, somebody likes it, somebody does not, but it should be calculated by the game engine.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> You might wanna reconsider that. Your example is for perfect 1:1 tracking. In ips you measure the speed not the acceleration.
> s = (d2 - d1)/(t2 - t1)
> Acceleration is the rate of change of velocity with time:
> a = (s2 - s1) / (t2 - t1)
> Move 1ips = 10px
> Move 2ips = 25px
> Move 3ips = 40px
> This is positive, fixed (not random) acceleration. It's not as bad as inconsistent acceleration, but it's still enough to mess with your aim. Sure you can get used to it, you can get used to anything, but your mind should focus on the game. You should't use your brain muscles to determine the speed you need to move your mouse in order to hit an enemy in fps.


I thought the accel in a mouse was not the same accel in real life... accel in a mouse is the faster YOU move the mouse the more your cursor moves.

My example was.

Move X distance with different's speeds...
1 inch per second gives you 10 pixels
Double your speed, 2 inches per second doubles your pixels... 20 pixels

am I right ?


----------



## toopz

I am afraid Kinzu 2 and Kana havent got great tracking and have lots of bugs.
Stop rubbing it in. Wait for new mouse or try Zowie AM or Logitech G300 or make your Kinzuadder.

All those who got sample aren't very happy with mouse. They do want to keep good relation with SS.
So they are not as negative as they are with the mice which they bought!
They are just commenting "Wait for retail version; Waiting for bug fixes; Trying new lens; My sample wasn't great; wanted to ask Kim Rom before I comment "

They all know sensor isn't that great what's the point keep talking about it?


----------



## hza

Yeah, but if they're right? What if SteelSeries manage to fix some flaws, at least? As I'm not overwhelmed by the performance of Kinzu v2 & Kana (from what I've read here) I won't buy any of them neither. SteelSeries' Top #1 mouse still is Xai in my opinion. I just hope SteelSeries will learn from this and do the job better next time.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toopz*
> 
> All those who got sample aren't very happy with mouse. They do want to keep good relation with SS.
> So they are not as negative as they are with the mice which they bought!
> They are just commenting "Wait for retail version; Waiting for bug fixes; Trying new lens; My sample wasn't great; wanted to ask Kim Rom before I comment "


I'm only waiting for the release samples to see if the tracking bug is still present. If the bug is still there then my review's conclusion will be a negative "do not buy" because from the moment Kim came to this forum and mentioned the word Pixart I immediately WARNED him about the bug present in the Mico.

My Kana beta samples have plastic feet with sharp edges that scratch at my pads, I basically ruined my goliathus speed pad while testing the perfect control speed of the Kana







. So plastic feet with zero glide combined with a pixel jumping bug means that there was no way in hell I would give that mouse a good review. The released Kana is supposed to have teflon feet and Steelseries claims to have fixed the jump bug so I thought it would be best to review the actual retail mouse because that's what people will be buying, not a gimped beta mouse.

I will always be honest without holding anything back, its not like I'm getting paid by them or anything.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cek*
> 
> so now can u tell me why almost all quakelive pros (cooller, cypher, rapha, k1llsen, avek) use acceleration?
> 
> accel is all preference, somebody likes it, somebody does not, but it should be calculated by the game engine.


As i said, one can get used to it. Must be the way that game calculates acceleration. All i know is there are maybe 3-4 cs pro players that use it, the rest of them hate it with a passion. And you are right, it is all preference. I'm pretty sure these days one can go pro with a ball mouse just as well. I was just stating my opinion about acceleration and how i can't think of one situation where you'd benefit from it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> I thought the accel in a mouse was not the same accel in real life... accel in a mouse is the faster YOU move the mouse the more your cursor moves.
> 
> My example was.
> 
> Move X distance with different's speeds...
> 1 inch per second gives you 10 pixels
> Double your speed, 2 inches per second doubles your pixels... 20 pixels
> 
> am I right ?


Yes, you are right! I misunderstood your post. Too little sleep







I was trying to give an example of inconsistent acceleration (found in A9500).


----------



## eosgreen

the biggest thing i hate about steelseries is the summary at the bottom of the products. its the exact same #$)$( for everything. tell us what sensor tell us something that matters

the questions you ask then answer are never answered well

" i heard in the kinzu there was built in acceleration" "will the kinzu v2 also have this"

answer - "it behaves like normal optical mice"

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN LOL. normal optical mice have prediction and no acceleration but some do so what one is it?
give definitive answers


----------



## 337drew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> " i heard in the kinzu there was built in acceleration" "will the kinzu v2 also have this"
> answer - "it behaves like normal optical mice"
> WHAT DOES THIS MEAN LOL. normal optical mice have prediction and no acceleration but some do so what one is it?
> give definitive answers


that's not exactly what the faq reads.
Quote:


> I heard that the original Kinzu had built-in acceleration; does the Kinzu v2 also have acceleration?
> 
> No, aside from the physical design, the Kinzu v2 is much different and works with a completely new sensor. It behaves as a standard optical mouse in terms of sensitivity and tracking functionality.


http://faq.steelseries.com/questions/343/I+heard+that+the+original+Kinzu+had+built-in+acceleration%3B+does+the+Kinzu+v2+also+have+acceleration%3F

seemed pretty clear to me in terms of accel. no mention of prediction though =\


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> OK! Let's say i challenge you to a 1v1 (pick your favourite fps). Winner goes home with 1 trillion dollars ... what mouse will you use?


Simple. Whichever mouse I'm using or have been using up until you challenged me. If I happened to be using the Kana or Kinzu v2 for a month straight, It would be quite silly for me to switch to another mouse in an attempt to play better for prize money.

Now I'll assume this wasn't the answer you were expecting, but it holds true to the question you asked.

What sensors do I like? _Well programmed_ Avago 30X0. 9500 does a fair job at tracking quality as long as the lens and pad are clean. Avoid it if you want consistency of cursor control.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BiGsTaR*
> 
> Well, in my opinion they should just take Avago 3668/S3888 work on a LOD, and make a perfect mouse.


Specific sensors are proprietary to RazerUSA.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kalashnikov*
> 
> Well, there are just some info as well as comments about the new mice of the testers so u guys please don't judge them so quick, don't judge like u used them for a long time and can't stand anymore. Wait for official products and reviews then it's ur time, testers' comments just for referencing.
> Actually, at first time I really didn't give a **** on Auto Correct, Ac, Prediction and played so well with my DA/Kinzu/Xai/Sensei..., just took time to get use to them at the beginning. Later when too many pp talked about those bugs that I didn't even mention them in games, everything got bad. Focusing on them too much made me worse everyday until I finally swept them away of my mind, played like I used to. It worked and took back my sensation, my smart and accuracy. So I recommend u guys, please don't care so much on details, those are just the reference not decided factor.


This. I assumed I was getting final samples.

My comments are based on mice I was strictly asked to give feedback on. I'm as confused as some of you and don't understand Kim's intentions.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyshak*
> 
> @ Skylit: If I understand your review correctly, the mouse ain't what it's hyped up to be. Especially the Kinzu v2 and SS marketing BS to say it will always do its job no matter the "frantic movements".
> To me, SS failed with both of these. And when it comes to the sensei you'll get a repackaged Xai sensor with so much useless stuff attached to it, its a disgrace.
> Why Kim Rom came here, knowing that we aren't his target group and dishing out samples for review is beyond me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, I'm happy about it as I now know that I must not buy one of these rodents.


Again, as above I honestly wasn't expecting to write my impressions based on early evaluation samples.

How do I _truly_ feel about these mice?

- Externally, I think their shapes are great. (Build quality of the Kana was lacking~)
- Internally, other companies are offering more for the money assuming the initial MSRP's are correct.

Good news? I think Kim stated they were adding Xai/Kinzu pro feet to the Kana instead of plastic like we got on the first two samples. ( I think we all b*tched about that)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toopz*
> 
> I am afraid Kinzu 2 and Kana havent got great tracking and have lots of bugs.
> Stop rubbing it in. Wait for new mouse or try Zowie AM or Logitech G300 or make your Kinzuadder.
> All those who got sample aren't very happy with mouse. They do want to keep good relation with SS.
> So they are not as negative as they are with the mice which they bought!
> They are just commenting "Wait for retail version; Waiting for bug fixes; Trying new lens; My sample wasn't great; wanted to ask Kim Rom before I comment
> 
> They all know sensor isn't that great what's the point keep talking about it?


If the G300 is anything like the G100, I don't really care for it's sensor either.









Want me to be brutally honest? Ask specific questions.


----------



## Skylit

dbl post


----------



## Skylit




----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Simple. Whichever mouse I'm using or have been using up until you challenged me. If I happened to be using the Kana or Kinzu v2 for a month straight, It would be quite silly for me to switch to another mouse in an attempt to play better for prize money.
> Now I'll assume this wasn't the answer you were expecting, but it holds true to the question you asked.
> What sensors do I like? _Well programmed_ Avago 30X0. 9500 does a fair job at tracking quality as long as the lens and pad are clean. Avoid it if you want consistency of cursor control.
> Specific sensors are proprietary to RazerUSA.
> This. I assumed I was getting final samples.
> My comments are based on mice I was strictly asked to give feedback on. I'm as confused as some of you and don't understand Kim's intentions.
> Again, as above I honestly wasn't expecting to write my impressions based on early evaluation samples.
> How do I _truly_ feel about these mice?
> - Externally, I think their shapes are great. (Build quality of the Kana was lacking~)
> - Internally, other companies are offering more for the money assuming the initial MSRP's are correct.
> Good news? I think Kim stated they were adding Xai/Kinzu pro feet to the Kana instead of plastic like we got on the first two samples. ( I think we all b*tched about that)
> If the G300 is anything like the G100, I don't really care for it's sensor either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Want me to be brutally honest? Ask specific questions.


Well,

Since the kinzu v2 pro is already available for purchase it must mean that they have already incorporated your feedback into the mouse, or left it out, or am I wrong to assume this?
Would be kind of half assed from steelseries if they released a batch full of bugs and afterwards released a new batch that fixed the bugs you pointed out.
What was the timeframe of you giving your final feedback and the product being available for purchase.

In your opinion, if they do fix the low tracking speed and the sensor 'random jump' bug, how would you rate the mouse overall?


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> 
> Well,
> Since the kinzu v2 pro is already available for purchase it must mean that they have already incorporated your feedback into the mouse, or left it out, or am I wrong to assume this?


Some. The initial Kana would have likely launched with the PAW3305DK + 1.0x lens (68 IPS) and plastic feet. I tried making it clear that a lot of people would find the max tracking rates a tad low even coming from an Intellimouse or WMO. Thus they swamped out the PAW3305DK, for the PAW3305DK-H and gave it a 0.5x lens.

In doing this, the max CPI range of 3200 wouldn't be possible. I suggested interpolation as it wouldn't have mattered. Tracking beyond 1600 CPI @ 1.0x got really bad. The 0.5x lens @ the 3200 CPI registry value (1600) isn't that great, but I was waiting for a "finished" mouse to make judgements.
Quote:


> What was the timeframe of you giving your final feedback and the product being available for purchase.


I received the initial Kana and Kinzu v2 samples in late September. Received 2nd Kana along with the Sensei mid November.
Quote:


> In your opinion, if they do fix the low tracking speed and the sensor 'random jump' bug, how would you rate the mouse overall?


Low tracking speed of the Kinzu v2 ? I'm not technically sure if that's "fixable". Avago sensors can perform well beyond specifications, but I'm unsure if that same rule applies to Pixart. In which case, the Pixart sensor does perform up to spec.

Besides the jump bug, I wasn't really impressed with the tracking "feel". Might have something to do with the magnification differences. Sensor Quality is much better @ 1.0x.


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Some. The initial Kana would have likely launched with the PAW3305DK + 1.0x lens (68 IPS) and plastic feet. I tried making it clear that a lot of people would find the max tracking rates a tad low even coming from an Intellimouse or WMO. Thus they swamped out the PAW3305DK, for the PAW3305DK-H and gave it a 0.5x lens.
> In doing this, the max CPI range of 3200 wouldn't be possible. I suggested interpolation as it wouldn't have mattered. Tracking beyond 1600 CPI @ 1.0x got really bad. The 0.5x lens @ the 3200 CPI registry value (1600) isn't that great, but I was waiting for a "finished" mouse to make judgements.


Thanks for commenting on that, I was wondering how serious steelseries took your advice, by reading that I can see that they took it very serious.
Quote:


> I received the initial Kana and Kinzu v2 samples in late September. Received 2nd Kana along with the Sensei mid November.


When you received the second kana sample, what bugs were they able to fix in the 1.5 month timeframe after you had given you feedback. I ask because since the product isn't available for purchase yet they might still be fixing bugs in the 1.5 months (november - january?) after you had given your feedback. (keeping hope alive;p)
Quote:


> Low tracking speed of the Kinzu v2 ? I'm not technically sure if that's "fixable". Avago sensors can perform well beyond specifications, but I'm unsure if that same rule applies to Pixart. In which case, the Pixart sensor does perform up to spec.
> Besides the jump bug, I wasn't really impressed with the tracking "feel". Might have something to do with the magnification differences. Sensor Quality is much better @ 1.0x.


Thanks for clearing that up. I assumed that the low tracking speed was due a bug with the mouse, but it seems that, that is just how it performs. Do you happen to know if they incorporated that 1.0x lens?


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> Thanks for commenting on that, I was wondering how serious steelseries took your advice, by reading that I can see that they took it very serious.
> 
> When you received the second kana sample, what bugs were they able to fix in the 1.5 month timeframe after you had given you feedback. I ask because since the product isn't available for purchase yet they might still be fixing bugs in the 1.5 months (november - january?) after you had given your feedback. (keeping hope alive;p)


On the Kana? Max tracking speed due to PAW3305DK-H and 0.5x lens.

1000hz was glitched @ 500hz on both the Kana and Kinzu v2. Firmware update fixed this (although my specific kinzu v2 likes to hover at 400hz and 700hz. Previously 500hz @ 500hz and 500hz @ 1000)

Quote:


> Do you happen to know if they incorporated that 1.0x lens?


Hmm? The Kinzu v2 uses the PAW3305DK with 1.0x lens. The Kana uses the PAW3305DK-H with 0.5x lens.

Pretty much the same sensor aside from the insert at the bottom.


----------



## joypanchao

http://wenku.baidu.com/view/85e3cb0879563c1ec5da715f.html

it shows PAN3305DK-H with 0.5lens's highest DPI was 1600, WHY


----------



## krameriffic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Specific sensors are proprietary to RazerUSA.


But it really makes no sense that they are proprietary for Razer. Why is every sensor from Avago since those inferior to them? Why can't they release a sensor with virtually identical specs/functionality to those under a different name and sell that to all the other companies in the world that make mice? Razer has made it clear that they want to focus on the DPI race, so they aren't releasing new models with them anymore. Maybe I just don't get the market, but it blows my mind that those sensors have existed for YEARS and they are BETTER than the current generation sensors yet they don't seem to want to make any more of them.


----------



## Jalal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> [...]
> I will always be honest without holding anything back, its not like I'm getting paid by them or anything.


Just in case someone misunderstood me pages before. I never implied any of you wouldn't be able to tell teh truth. Just said that the bad mannered stuff cant be expected by you people.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I'm only waiting for the release samples to see if the tracking bug is still present. If the bug is still there then my review's conclusion will be a negative "do not buy" because from the moment Kim came to this forum and mentioned the word Pixart I immediately WARNED him about the bug present in the Mico.
> My Kana beta samples have plastic feet with sharp edges that scratch at my pads, I basically ruined my goliathus speed pad while testing the perfect control speed of the Kana
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . So plastic feet with zero glide combined with a pixel jumping bug means that there was no way in hell I would give that mouse a good review. The released Kana is supposed to have teflon feet and Steelseries claims to have fixed the jump bug so I thought it would be best to review the actual retail mouse because that's what people will be buying, not a gimped beta mouse.
> I will always be honest without holding anything back, its not like I'm getting paid by them or anything.


So... are they saying that they had fixed the problems with Pixart ? Because, MiCO in your review looks great instead of that bug everything seems ok.
When we will know that ? (better... when will steelseries give you retail examples?)


----------



## Bullveyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I suggested interpolation as it wouldn't have mattered.


Wait I second, you suggested that they pull a Roccat Kova and fool their customers about the real CPI of the Kana?


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bullveyr*
> 
> Wait I second, you suggested that they pull a Roccat Kova and fool their customers about the real CPI of the Kana?


Quote:


> According to this test, both the Kinzu v2 and Kana seem to hit average perfect control rates of 1.74m/s or between 68 and 69 Inches per sec.
> 
> http://wenku.baidu.com/view/85e3cb08...ec5da715f.html
> 
> I found this interesting because assuming I have the correct sensor and PDF file, that's the exact tracking rate of this sensor using a 1.0x lens.
> 
> The Problem: The sensor won't be able to track anywhere near the stated 130 IPS as listed on the box if you guys want 3200 CPI Mouse. Firmware is not the issue.
> 
> The 0.5x lens is limited to 1600 CPI. Interpolation might be an option if you guys don't mind having a fake 3200 CPI step.


My initial PM. I was only concerned about max tracking rates at the time and figured they wouldn't swap the Pixart sensor to something more expensive.

I regret even getting involved with these mice at this point.


----------



## h0lm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I regret even getting involved with these mice at this point.


And all hope was lost.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Simple. Whichever mouse I'm using or have been using up until you challenged me. If I happened to be using the Kana or Kinzu v2 for a month straight, It would be quite silly for me to switch to another mouse in an attempt to play better for prize money.


I was trying to squeeze some more Kana/Kinzu informations, but you aswered those questions already. But really what mouse are you using atm from that Plethora of Mice?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krameriffic*
> 
> But it really makes no sense that they are proprietary for Razer. Why is every sensor from Avago since those inferior to them? Why can't they release a sensor with virtually identical specs/functionality to those under a different name and sell that to all the other companies in the world that make mice? Razer has made it clear that they want to focus on the DPI race, so they aren't releasing new models with them anymore. Maybe I just don't get the market, but it blows my mind that those sensors have existed for YEARS and they are BETTER than the current generation sensors yet they don't seem to want to make any more of them.


This is not true. Avago 3060/3080/3090 are not inferior to 3668/3888. The only advantage DA has is the lack of prediction, which the 3090 is also capable of. Let's not forget it took Razer many years to make DA the mouse it is today. As a personal opinion, the A3090 in the Zowie AM is just as good and could be much better if they put more effort into testing/firmwares. The way is see it they prefer to focus on adding more DPI to those flawed laser sensors and pretty lights. The "raw material" is there, but their priorities changed drastically.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> According to this test, both the Kinzu v2 and Kana seem to hit average perfect control rates of 1.74m/s or between 68 and 69 Inches per sec.
> 
> http://wenku.baidu.com/view/85e3cb08...ec5da715f.html
> 
> I found this interesting because assuming I have the correct sensor and PDF file, that's the exact tracking rate of this sensor using a 1.0x lens.
> 
> The Problem: The sensor won't be able to track anywhere near the stated 130 IPS as listed on the box if you guys want 3200 CPI Mouse. Firmware is not the issue.
> 
> The 0.5x lens is limited to 1600 CPI. Interpolation might be an option if you guys don't mind having a fake 3200 CPI step.


I'd take higher PCS @ 400/800/1600 over a "real" 3200 DPI any day. What percentage of people would use that step anyway? Maybe less than 10%.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I regret even getting involved with these mice at this point.


Why do you say that? You had the chance to "work" with, probably, the best in the business and gave feedback to what could've been the best mice ever. It's not your fault (Derp's or Bullveyr's) that it didn't go well. Maybe choosing the Pixart sensor was wrong from the beginning.


----------



## eko

Quote:


> But really what mouse are you using atm from that Plethora of Mice?


Yeah, same question from me!


----------



## Sencha

Probably all of them taped together


----------



## eko

Or he uses this? http://kids.mdbc.gov.au/__data/page/735/Pilliga_Mouse.JPG No DPI, CPI and that bull****, straight nature...







lol jk : )


----------



## journey

I've been playing with the Kinzu V2 Pro over the weekend now and I'm quite surprised to admit that I kinda like the mouse. I think the shape which is perfect for me compensates a lot.


----------



## nyshak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journey*
> 
> I've been playing with the Kinzu V2 Pro over the weekend now and I'm quite surprised to admit that I kinda like the mouse. I think the shape which is perfect for me compensates a lot.


Shape is very important, but cannot hide a bad sensor in the long run. That's why I'm happy people like Skylit did get involved with the Kinzu v2 and Kana. If nothing else, I now know that the mouse won't live up to my standards.

Ofc, if you are happy - just use it.


----------



## journey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyshak*
> 
> Shape is very important, but cannot hide a bad sensor in the long run. That's why I'm happy people like Skylit did get involved with the Kinzu v2 and Kana. If nothing else, I now know that the mouse won't live up to my standards.
> Ofc, if you are happy - just use it.


I posted a few pages ago my initial impressions of the mouse which were mainly negative. I also stated that I'm going to pick one of these up just out of curiosity and to my surprise the mouse ain't all that bad. I'm still going to go back to my IE 3.0 eventually, like always.


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journey*
> 
> I posted a few pages ago my initial impressions of the mouse which were mainly negative. I also stated that I'm going to pick one of these up just out of curiosity and to my surprise the mouse ain't all that bad. I'm still going to go back to my IE 3.0 eventually, like always.


You say that you actually kind of like the mouse now. Since your previous post, what has changed your opinion about the mouse. By that I mean, what bothered you before that doesn't bother you know.
Also when you say that the mouse isn't all that bad, what is or are the things that are flawed about the mouse or atleast bother you in some way?


----------



## journey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> 
> You say that you actually kind of like the mouse now. Since your previous post, what has changed your opinion about the mouse. By that I mean, what bothered you before that doesn't bother you know.
> Also when you say that the mouse isn't all that bad, what is or are the things that are flawed about the mouse or atleast bother you in some way?


I am still not sure whether or not the mouse I initially tested was a retail version. I ain't enthusiastic when it comes to mouse prediction and accel so I think the sensors' performance is sufficient in my use and it doesn't feel so odd now that I've had the time to test it at home with proper mousepad and settings. I find the glossy coating a bit irritating as it collects fingerprints and smutch easily and the mousewheel seems a bit loose on the inside thus making a weird sound when I swiftly move the mouse from side to side. I found the same 'feature' in my original Kinzu, too. The teflon feet didn't mate well with Goliathus & Talent so I put a set of Puretrak Glides in, now it glides smoothly.

E. And to say that I like the mouse was perhaps a bit too optimistic from my part - at least I don't loath the Kinzu anymore.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journey*
> 
> I am still not sure whether or not the mouse I initially tested was a retail version. I ain't enthusiastic when it comes to mouse prediction and accel so I think the sensors' performance is sufficient in my use and it doesn't feel so odd now that I've had the time to test it at home with proper mousepad and settings. I find the glossy coating a bit irritating as it collects fingerprints and smutch easily and the mousewheel seems a bit loose on the inside thus making a weird sound when I swiftly move the mouse from side to side. I found the same 'feature' in my original Kinzu, too. The teflon feet didn't mate well with Goliathus & Talent so I put a set of Puretrak Glides in, now it glides smoothly.
> E. And to say that I like the mouse was perhaps a bit too optimistic from my part - at least I don't loath the Kinzu anymore.


Did they fix the skipping pixels bug ?


----------



## journey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> Did they fix the skipping pixels bug ?


Seems like it, yeah. I haven't experienced any problems tracking wise since I got this mouse. This might have something to do with the updated firmware that comes with SS engine, dunno.


----------



## v4mp1

Can u do a tracking test in pbrush?


----------



## journey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v4mp1*
> 
> Can u do a tracking test in pbrush?


You mean something like this? http://i.imgur.com/MWoa6.jpg

Done on a Goliathus Control.


----------



## v4mp1

can u do a vertical line test too pls for the kinzu ?


----------



## journey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v4mp1*
> 
> can u do a vertical line test too pls for the kinzu ?


http://i.imgur.com/9hAKA.png


----------



## v4mp1

thanks journey









so u cant reproduce this pixart problem found in the mico ?

->


----------



## journey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v4mp1*
> 
> thanks journey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so u cant reproduce this pixart problem found in the mico ?
> ->


No I can't, even after frantic attempts.


----------



## innov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v4mp1*
> 
> thanks journey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so u cant reproduce this pixart problem found in the mico ?
> ->


omg is that what the bug looks like in paint, i thought it would be like a few pixels and not something as massive as that








definitely not buying kana if it has that in retail version


----------



## v4mp1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journey*
> 
> No I can't, even after frantic attempts.


Nice to hear, thanks for the effort


----------



## iZnoGouD

And will it has same price as Kinzu has?


----------



## 337drew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journey*
> 
> No I can't, even after frantic attempts.


Perfect. Then it meets my requirements...

Derp - Awaiting your review on the final product =)


----------



## Kalashnikov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *journey*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *v4mp1*
> 
> Can u do a tracking test in pbrush?
> 
> 
> 
> You mean something like this? http://i.imgur.com/MWoa6.jpg
> 
> Done on a Goliathus Control.
Click to expand...

Seems to be no prediction at all.








Keep hoping pp, give them a shot !!!


----------



## Juhisp

I don't really understand. The Kana has a high tracking speed, very little prediction and no acceleration and people are already calling it a complete failure? And what i've understood, the only problem with the Kinzu v2 is a fairly low perfect control speed, which should still be enough for everyone except very low sens fps players. (Isnt' that about the same as a WMO?) Or is there something I'm missing?

On another matter, how do the mousebuttons feel? Are the similar as on the old kinzu or more like the Xai\Sensei?


----------



## krameriffic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> This is not true. Avago 3060/3080/3090 are not inferior to 3668/3888. The only advantage DA has is the lack of prediction, which the 3090 is also capable of. Let's not forget it took Razer many years to make DA the mouse it is today. As a personal opinion, the A3090 in the Zowie AM is just as good and could be much better if they put more effort into testing/firmwares. The way is see it they prefer to focus on adding more DPI to those flawed laser sensors and pretty lights. The "raw material" is there, but their priorities changed drastically.


This is not true. I'm sorry, but the simple fact of the matter is that I can hit the control speed on every single mouse with one of the newer Avago sensors I have used. I am physically incapable of reaching it on my Deathadder 3G, 3.5G and Abyssus. I simply cannot do it. This is ultimately the most important factor for me because the control speeds on things like the Spawn are just plain BAD. I hit negative acceleration on the damn desktop with wrist-pivot mouse movement. I cannot fathom how people use these mice with truly low sensitivities. If the Deathadder wasn't such a bulky shape, I would never have to think twice about what mouse I use.

Yes, it took Razer some time to iron out LOD and jitter issues (though the jitter issue seems to persist on the Abyssus), but at least they WORKED with no adverse effects. Every fix I've seen for these Avago/Pixart sensors seems to come at a cost to control speed or LOD or something else. The whole thing is just a mess in my eyes. I should just forget the whole business of hoping that one of these companies releases a silver bullet mouse that does everything right and make a Kinzuadder.


----------



## journey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juhisp*
> 
> On another matter, how do the mousebuttons feel? Are the similar as on the old kinzu or more like the Xai\Sensei?


Buttons feel pretty good and solid. They are not as clicky as in Xai but then again they are more tactile than the ones in the original Kinzu.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krameriffic*
> 
> This is not true. I'm sorry, but the simple fact of the matter is that I can hit the control speed on every single mouse with one of the newer Avago sensors I have used. I am physically incapable of reaching it on my Deathadder 3G, 3.5G and Abyssus. I simply cannot do it. This is ultimately the most important factor for me because the control speeds on things like the Spawn are just plain BAD. I hit negative acceleration on the damn desktop with wrist-pivot mouse movement. I cannot fathom how people use these mice with truly low sensitivities. If the Deathadder wasn't such a bulky shape, I would never have to think twice about what mouse I use.
> 
> Yes, it took Razer some time to iron out LOD and jitter issues (though the jitter issue seems to persist on the Abyssus), but at least they WORKED with no adverse effects. Every fix I've seen for these Avago/Pixart sensors seems to come at a cost to control speed or LOD or something else. The whole thing is just a mess in my eyes. I should just forget the whole business of hoping that one of these companies releases a silver bullet mouse that does everything right and make a Kinzuadder.


I share the same thoughts about the DA. I can understand why many ppl like this mouse and think it's the best, cause in many ways it is. I was just saying that 3060/3080/3090 have the same potential. The 3060 in Zowie EC series has a very high malfunction speed and so does the 3080 in MX518. Ok the perfect control is not as good, but the CM Spawn is Cooler Master's fault and the Zowie AM is pretty close to DA sensor wise. I still have faith this sensor is the 3888 for the open market.
But honestly i wouldn't praise Razer for the Deathadder. Their latest sensor choices make me think DA was just a wonderful mistake (just like WMO/.1.1/3.0 from Microsoft).

PS: Kana launched http://steelseries.com/products/mice/steelseries-kana


----------



## eosgreen

gota have 2 side buttons sucks


----------



## Pyroh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> I share the same thoughts about the DA. I can understand why many ppl like this mouse and think it's the best, cause in many ways it is. I was just saying that 3060/3080/3090 have the same potential. The 3060 in Zowie EC series has a very high malfunction speed and so does the 3080 in MX518. Ok the perfect control is not as good, but the CM Spawn is Cooler Master's fault and the Zowie AM is pretty close to DA sensor wise. I still have faith this sensor is the 3888 for the open market.
> But honestly i wouldn't praise Razer for the Deathadder. Their latest sensor choices make me think DA was just a wonderful mistake (just like WMO/.1.1/3.0 from Microsoft).
> PS: Kana launched http://steelseries.com/products/mice/steelseries-kana


OOH DDD

I'm liking the black version. A lot...


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> PS: Kana launched http://steelseries.com/products/mice/steelseries-kana


They enlisted world class Doom players to test the Kana.... Doom.....


----------



## EthanNixon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *innov*
> 
> omg is that what the bug looks like in paint, i thought it would be like a few pixels and not something as massive as that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> definitely not buying kana if it has that in retail version


When, in any game, are you going to be frantically moving your cursor up and down repeatedly 10+ times?


----------



## v4mp1

I want a KanaAdder









I will build one xD

Woot Doom ? Dont mess with him  Derp!


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EthanNixon*
> 
> When, in any game, are you going to be frantically moving your cursor up and down repeatedly 10+ times?


It doesn't always require that many movements. Just a single north and then south movement can cause it to jump pixels.


----------



## end0rphine

I hope they mean quake players lol


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Are Doom players still alive?


----------



## innov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EthanNixon*
> 
> When, in any game, are you going to be frantically moving your cursor up and down repeatedly 10+ times?


When throwing grenades in tactical shooters or when using a weapon like Quake's grenade launcher that requires you to adjust your aim above the opponent for the grenade to fall in right place.

EDIT: So the OCN testers found that jump to the right bug both in Kana and Kinzu v2? If it was fixed in journey's Kinzu v2 I guess that could mean it's very likely fixed in Kana aswell. I really hope so because if it is then there isn't really other obvious flaws in Kana is there? Some of you vaguely commented (think it was Skylit) that you weren't too fond on the build quality. What did you mean by this?


----------



## eosgreen

2mm lift distance idn bout that one bit high no? whats the spawn like 1 or 1.2ish?

so is the general view of this mouse good so far? anyone have a price yet?


----------



## theo87

Have you tried DA? It tracks better than XAI at 5mm.


----------



## Pyroh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARIKOmagic*
> 
> Are Doom players still alive?


Nope, they all vanished.


----------



## krameriffic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> 2mm lift distance idn bout that one bit high no? whats the spawn like 1 or 1.2ish?
> so is the general view of this mouse good so far? anyone have a price yet?


The Spawn is like 1mm on certain firmwares. Those firmwares also bring severe reductions to the control speed, <1.5 m/s.


----------



## dmxdex2020

The xai is the best mouse i have used. Its ok for me the acceleration doesnt really effect me cause i dont play at low dpi and dont reach max high speeds.


----------



## jeffxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pyroh*
> 
> Nope, they all vanished.


http://www.zdaemon.org/


----------



## EthanNixon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmxdex2020*
> 
> The xai is the best mouse i have used. Its ok for me the acceleration doesnt really effect me cause i dont play at low dpi and dont reach max high speeds.


98% of people who actually play video games will never reach the malfunction speed, unless they are using a really bad surface. 99% of competitive gamers use a mid-high sensitivity. Less than 1% of professional players play with a very low sensitivity.


----------



## Zwiebi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krameriffic*
> 
> This is not true. I'm sorry, but the simple fact of the matter is that I can hit the control speed on every single mouse with one of the newer Avago sensors I have used. I am physically incapable of reaching it on my Deathadder 3G, 3.5G and Abyssus. I simply cannot do it.


I just compared the Abyssus and the Logitech G400 (Avago ADNS-3080E/S3095) for you:

It is true, that the Abyssus has a very good sensor (apart from the jittering), as it can perform the same with every DPI setting. I made a few test runs for you:

It can't do 400 DPI, so you have to divide the result with (450/400), which would make it 4.75 m/s.



At 1800DPI, which is the only matching resolution with Enotus, I got the same result:



At 3500DPI, it has a bit lower max speed. Again we have to adjust the result between 3500 and 3600 DPI, so the corrected max speed is 4.6 m/s.



Now for the Logitech G400:

The native resolutions of the sensor is 800 and 3600 DPI, so I tested those.

At 800 DPI, it actually has a higher max speed than the Abyssus at 4.89 m/s.



And here comes the bad thing at 3600 DPI (and at 1800), where the max speed hits a limit at 2 m/s for reasons I don't know.



To sum it up, you can say, that the Abyssus (and the DA) has a great sensor, but it is not unmatched. I agree, that it is weird, that the A3080E has limits at higher DPI, but if you are interested as a low sens gamer, than the sensor is just as fine as the one in the Abyssus.

P.s.: and I just realized, that this is a bit off topic here...


----------



## EthanNixon

I don't see how that enotus test can be regarded as any kind of test at all...

According to that, my SteelSeries Kinzu gets 17.2m/s and is 99.9% accurate...


----------



## Zwiebi

Than you probably misconfigured some settings, quite possibly the DPI step.
Many people says, that the Enotus test is unreliable, but I never had any problem with it (did some approximate testing with high speed camera to check if it measures in the correct range). Also I remember someone trustworthy on this forum said, that Enotus and the Outerspace logger is using the same backend, and I try to avoid random spikes by doing every test a couple of times.

Interesting note: I have the fixed Logitech software installed, and compared to my old results, the max speed at lower DPI are higher, while at higher DPI, are lower.


----------



## krameriffic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zwiebi*
> 
> To sum it up, you can say, that the Abyssus (and the DA) has a great sensor, but it is not unmatched. I agree, that it is weird, that the A3080E has limits at higher DPI, but if you are interested as a low sens gamer, than the sensor is just as fine as the one in the Abyssus.
> P.s.: and I just realized, that this is a bit off topic here...


If only Coolermaster could do this with the Xornet and Spawn. Sadly both of these mice malfunction for me on a casual swipe across my two monitor desktop.

Perhaps I was overzealous of saying that ALL of the new Avago sensors are bad. But I actually can't hit a maximum malfunction speed on my Abyssus or DA 1800 DPI. The maximum I hit is the limitations of my arm and the fact that I'm indoors at a relatively small desk.


----------



## Mackem

I hope the retail Kana is better, need a good palm grip mouse to replace my G500.


----------



## Zwiebi

Lol, tell me about the Spawn...


----------



## thecolin

Quote:


> If only Coolermaster could do this with the Xornet and Spawn. Sadly both of these mice malfunction for me on a casual swipe across my two monitor desktop.
> 
> Perhaps I was overzealous of saying that ALL of the new Avago sensors are bad. But I actually can't hit a maximum malfunction speed on my Abyssus or DA 1800 DPI. The maximum I hit is the limitations of my arm and the fact that I'm indoors at a relatively small desk.


I use Xornet with Handstands Grey supermat and v55 firmware and love it. Thank me later.


----------



## popobear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v4mp1*
> 
> I want a KanaAdder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will build one xD
> Woot Doom ? Dont mess with him  Derp!


Nice vamp , build one for me if you have extra time , i'll buy from u =X


----------



## yashau

I get 2.73m/sec on my Spawn on an Artisen Kai.G3 with Enotus. Is that off? Using 1800 DPI and 250 Hz.


----------



## BiGsTaR

Well I never thought it's that hard to reach 5m/s. I tested my DA 3G and at 1800DPI I had 5.03m/sec but I think it's mainly coz of my arm speed and relativley small desk limitations.
So anything above 3 m/s perfect control is enough for me.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BiGsTaR*
> 
> Well I never thought it's that hard to reach 5m/s. I tested my DA 3G and at 1800DPI I had 5.03m/sec but I think it's mainly coz of my arm speed and relativley small desk limitations.
> So anything above 3 m/s perfect control is enough for me.


Hang on 1800 DPI and 5m/s, are you twirling 720 degrees in the same spot? What's your real sensitivity?


----------



## Sencha

How well will the Kinzu v2 deal with 30cm/360? 1.1 and 3.0 were fine for me. I could deal with the neg acceleration of those. Will the Kinzu v2 really be a problem?


----------



## v4mp1

It all depends how fast u will move your mouse in a fight where u have to do a 180° turn or whatever.

It not only depends on your sensitivity.

I just looked how fast i move my mouse(kinzuadder) in BF3 with enotus, i had around of 1,77m/s in a playtime of 2h.

But it is up to you how many m/s u need.

PS: unzoomed 51cm for a 360° turn.
Zoomed 99cm for a 360° turn.

PS2: since i swapped to the kinzuadder, my k/d ratio raised up a LOT and it keeps going up xD

Edit: @ Sencha, i think u will be fine with a Kinzu v2.


----------



## vss vintorez

So the skipping pixels problem is fixed ?


----------



## c4rm0

Well after another disappointment from steel series i have ordered myself another two Microsoft intellimouse explorer 3's which should keep me going. Its amazing in this day and age of technology that i have to keep going back to a mouse that is 10-15 years old


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *c4rm0*
> 
> Well after another disappointment from steel series i have ordered myself another two Microsoft intellimouse explorer 3's which should keep me going. Its amazing in this day and age of technology that i have to keep going back to a mouse that is 10-15 years old


It's not a disappointment...
No bugs No accel No correction... AND HIGH TRACKING SPEEDS AND MEDIUM TO LOW LOD....

It's my dreamed mouse


----------



## EthanNixon

Well the test can read DPI settings incorrectly a lot, especially on the current Kinzu. My Sensei gets like 3+m/s or something, I forgot. However, I can play at 40in/360 and feel no negative acceleration, which is a really low sensitivity.


----------



## end0rphine

I'm not sure whether to trust the steelseries product page since it states that the Kana is 5g lighter than the kinzu. :??


----------



## krameriffic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EthanNixon*
> 
> Well the test can read DPI settings incorrectly a lot, especially on the current Kinzu. My Sensei gets like 3+m/s or something, I forgot. However, I can play at 40in/360 and feel no negative acceleration, which is a really low sensitivity.


At the end of the day, I have to use a mouse to know if I can tolerate the control speed on the sensor. I've seen such wacky results out of enotus that I really can't trust it.


----------



## theo87

So, what is biggest flaw of Kana for now?


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inox*
> 
> So, what is biggest flaw of Kana for now?


Still unkown, the mouse isn't available for purchase anywhere yet, so nobody can buy and test it. I don't think the guys who tested the beta samples have a final product as well.

From what I've gathered, the sensor had a few bugs, but they seem to have been fixed in the kinzu v2 retail version, so expect them to be fixed in the kana as well. And I think it was skylit who said that the build quality of the kana was pretty bad. But since that was a beta version, I'm sure they have fixed that as well, since steelseries does pretty well when it comes to build quality.

From the kinzu v2 review thread, I got the sense that the sensor actually seems to be pretty good except for it's low perfect control speed. I remember skylit saying somehing about the kana having a higher perfect control speed. If that's true, the mouse will probably be near perfect.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> 
> Still unkown, the mouse isn't available for purchase anywhere yet, so nobody can buy and test it. I don't think the guys who tested the beta samples have a final product as well.
> From what I've gathered, the sensor had a few bugs, but they seem to have been fixed in the kinzu v2 retail version, so expect them to be fixed in the kana as well. And I think it was skylit who said that the build quality of the kana was pretty bad. But since that was a beta version, I'm sure they have fixed that as well, since steelseries does pretty well when it comes to build quality.
> From the kinzu v2 review thread, I got the sense that the sensor actually seems to be pretty good except for it's low perfect control speed. I remember skylit saying somehing about the kana having a higher perfect control speed. If that's true, the mouse will probably be near perfect.


+1

If that's true I'll buy Kana in 2 colors- I'm between kana and AM... I need a review right now !!


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> +1
> If that's true I'll buy Kana in 2 colors- I'm between kana and AM... I need a review right now !!


Haha, I'm in the same boat as you. Can't decide if I'm going with kana, kinzu v2 pro or the zowie AM. I'll wait untill they've all be released globally and see what the reviews say. But my feeling says that kana will come out on top.


----------



## theo87

Definietly not kinzu, I have to decide between kana and am. But am has abit low max dpi, if max step would be 3200 I will take it without even thinking.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inox*
> 
> Definietly not kinzu, I have to decide between kana and am. But am has abit low max dpi, if max step would be 3200 I will take it without even thinking.


The AM has legit CPI on all of its settings. The latest beta Kana in my hands is only a 400-800CPI mouse, that's it. 1600 and 3200 CPI are both fake pixel skipping garbage that nobody should be using. Same thing with the Zowie Mico, 400-800CPI are fine but the 1600CPI step skips pixels.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> The AM has legit CPI on all of its settings. *The latest Kana* sample in my hands is only a 400-800CPI mouse, that's it. 1600 and 3200 CPI are both fake pixel skipping garbage that nobody should be using. Same thing with the Zowie Mico, 400-800CPI are fine but the 1600CPI step skips pixels.


Does it still have the skipping pixels bug you showed in the Zowie MiCO ? (I'm interested in 400dpi)
And.. how about the tracking speed in 400dpi 1000hz/500hz ? Higher than Deathadder ?


----------



## theo87

Every day I'm getting more coninced that I will never replace my DA Wondering if 2300DPi is going to be enough for 1920x1080


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> Does it still have the skipping pixels bug you showed in the Zowie MiCO ? (I'm interested in 400dpi)
> And.. how about the tracking speed in 400dpi 1000hz/500hz ? Higher than Deathadder ?


I still don't have the final version of either mouse.

* Edited the previous post as it was a bit confusing







.


----------



## RocKien

Why, KANA 130ips, using 0.5 times the lens, to achieve 3200DPI


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I still don't have the final version of either mouse.
> * Edited the previous post as it was a bit confusing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Let me clear one thing, the skipping pixels bug you reported in your zowie mico review only happens in dpi settings over 800 dpi ???


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> Let me clear one thing, the skipping pixels bug you reported in your zowie mico review only happens in dpi settings over 800 dpi ???


The "jump bug" happens on all CPI settings and polling rates. This is the bug that can randomly jump many pixels that SS claims to have fixed on the release mice.

The pixel skipping is the same behavior that you can see right now if you set your windows sensitivity at 8 or higher, small corrections in your lines will skip pixels. This always happens on the 1600 and 3200 CPI step but doesn't happen on the 400 and 800 CPI step. The Zowie Mico also skips pixels on its 1600 CPI step.

Here's an example from the Mico:


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> The "jump bug" happens on all CPI settings and polling rates. This is the bug that can randomly jump many pixels that SS claims to have fixed on the release mice.
> The pixel skipping is the same behavior that you can see right now if you set your windows sensitivity at 8 or higher, small corrections in your lines will skip pixels. This always happens on the 1600 and 3200 CPI step but doesn't happen on the 400 and 800 CPI step. The Zowie Mico also skips pixels on its 1600 CPI step.


edit: it's jiterry line, that sucks.

Oh thanks xD, it's matter of time... did kim rom told u if he was going to send you retail version of kana ?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> Oh thanks xD, it's matter of time... did kim rom told u if he was going to send you retail version of kana ?


They offered to send them and I replied to accept their offer. It has only been 5 days







.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> They offered to send them and I replied to accept their offer. It has only been 5 days
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


G R E A T !

So... hypotetically, if they fixed the jumping pixels bug, would you recommend the steelseries kana over the zowie AM for low sens player ? (need high ips)


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> G R E A T !
> So... hypotetically, if they fixed the jumping pixels bug, would you recommend the kana over the AM for low sens player ? (need high ips)


I'll have to wait until it gets here to answer that, the tracking might be different compared to my beta mouse. And since Zowie still hasn't provided a way for me to buy the AM in the US I still don't have experience with it to compare.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I'll have to wait until it gets here to answer that, the tracking might be different compared to my beta mouse. And since Zowie still hasn't provided a way for me to buy the AM in the US I still don't have experience with it to compare.


But the zowie am in this forum seems pretty real... no accel no predict 2.8mts tracking speed at 450dpi @ 1000hz and very low liftoff. It's pretty good.
The problem is that i need more tracking speed... how fast your beta mouse could track ¿?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> But the zowie am in this forum seems pretty real... no accel no predict 2.8mts tracking speed at 450dpi @ 1000hz and very low liftoff. It's pretty good.
> The problem is that i need more tracking speed... how fast your beta mouse could track ¿?


Skylit answered some questions about the beta mice including the perfect control speed and my results match up with his. The beta Kana's perfect control speed is quite high, right around what it's rated for (130 ips).


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Skylit answered some questions about the beta mice including the perfect control speed and my results match up with his. The beta Kana's perfect control speed is quite high, right around what it's rated for (130 ips).


The problem is for example, deathadder says 60ips and it gets more than 120 o even more...
So Kana is 3.25 mts/s ? AM is 2.9 mts/s there is not much difference...

and last question... the fps in a mouse affect presicion ?


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inox*
> 
> Every day I'm getting more coninced that I will never replace my DA Wondering if 2300DPi is going to be enough for 1920x1080


Hmm.... I'm on 400-450 cpi in every game, no matter, if it's 640x480 in CS 1.6 or 1920x1200 in Metro 2033. Never had any issues because of that, I believe.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> So Kana is 3.25 mts/s ? AM is 2.9 mts/s there is not much difference...


mts/s = m/s? meters per second? I just never heard about mts as shortcut. I know it's offtopic though.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> mts/s = m/s? meters per second? I just never heard about mts as shortcut. I know it's offtopic though.


I'm from Argentina







that's why. METER = METRO and we say mts/s.
Yes that is offtopic.

I'm just too excited about this mouse or the zowie am.


----------



## Zwiebi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *inox*
> 
> Every day I'm getting more coninced that I will never replace my DA Wondering if 2300DPi is going to be enough for 1920x1080


I use 400 DPI on desktop (1920x1200) and since 800 DPI is the native sensor resolution of the G400, I use that in game with 0.75 sens. It is perfect for me, but since you are not me, you just have to try.  You can set your DA to 1800 DPI, which is pretty close to 2300 and use it to get a feeling of it.
Also, 2300DPI, with sens 1 is equal to 18 cm/360. Try it with your DA, and see if it is acceptable to you. (And the planet is not going to explode if you use sens 1.5 ;-) )


----------



## scandalous

Some places already have the KANA for sale.

http://www.alternate.de/html/product/SteelSeries/Kana_Black/935748/?


----------



## Mizmo

multiple german shops have it since monday on stock

ordered one yesterday but not sure if i still get it this week


----------



## end0rphine

Who wants to ship a kana to me in Australia?


----------



## BiGsTaR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> The problem is for example, deathadder says 60ips and it gets more than 120 o even more...
> So Kana is 3.25 mts/s ? AM is 2.9 mts/s there is not much difference...
> 
> and last question... the fps in a mouse affect presicion ?


Anything around 3m/s is acceptable for 99.9% of players, so if Kana won't 've a skipping bug it will be as good choice as Zowie AM.

P.S. My DA reached 198 IPS in enotus. This sensor is just amazing.


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Is the kinzu v2 for sale in offline shops in Germany?


----------



## scandalous

Can someone tell me if the kinzu v2 tracks better than a ikari optical? Steelseries website states that the ikari has 40 ips, and the kinzu v2 has 61 ips.
But posts here on the forum suggest that the kinzu v2 tracks with 1.8/9 m/s while the ikari optical tracks with 2.23? m/s. So they obviously contradict.

Which of these numbers is wrong?


----------



## Mizmo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARIKOmagic*
> 
> Is the kinzu v2 for sale in offline shops in Germany?


don't know, but some online shops have it already
http://gh.de/714390?t=alle&plz=&va=b&vl=de&v=k#filterform


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> 
> Can someone tell me if the kinzu v2 tracks better than a ikari optical? Steelseries website states that the ikari has 40 ips, and the kinzu v2 has 61 ips.
> But posts here on the forum suggest that the kinzu v2 tracks with 1.8/9 m/s while the ikari optical tracks with 2.23? m/s. So they obviously contradict.
> Which of these numbers is wrong?


40 IPS is the official specification for the Avago A3060 as with 68 IPS for the PAW3305DK.

Two different brands, two different ratings. PS: Tracking better isn't just speed









Edit: Just quick tested an ikari Optical at 400 CPI via raindrop XL. Seems to hit an Average of 4.25~ m/s or 165 IPS.

Not going to doubt that as I can't get it to malfunction unless it's on a hard surface.


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> 40 IPS is the official specification for the Avago A3060 as with 68 IPS for the PAW3305DK.
> Two different brands, two different ratings. PS: Tracking better isn't just speed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: Just quick tested an ikari Optical at 400 CPI via raindrop XL. Seems to hit an Average of 4.25~ m/s or 165 IPS.
> Not going to doubt that as I can't get it to malfunction unless it's on a hard surface.


Yeah, I figured as much. I was at a friends, who has a ikari optical and I couldn't get it to malfunction no matter what... It seemed pretty weird when looking at the official specs. Too bad the kinzu v2 doesn't perform above it's rated specs.


----------



## bowflex

Hello everyone.
Just have a few questions to testers (skylit,derp and others- sorry don't know who)
You experienced pixel jump bug on some special settings or u felt it on every dpi and usb polling rate?
And a little off topic: does latest version of abyssus ( lol edition) jitter on every settings or there are some flawless.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bowflex*
> 
> Hello everyone.
> Just have a few questions to testers (skylit,derp and others- sorry don't know who)
> You experienced pixel jump bug on some special settings or u felt it on every dpi and usb polling rate?
> And a little off topic: does latest version of abyssus ( lol edition) jitter on every settings or there are some flawless.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1187517/steelseries-kinzu-v2-pro-testing

Kaingosu doesn't seem to be able to replicate the issue on his retail version.


----------



## bowflex

thanks a lot for posting that link )


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1187517/steelseries-kinzu-v2-pro-testing
> 
> Kaingosu doesn't seem to be able to replicate the issue on his retail version.


It's been about 3 days now and still no sign of the "pixel jump bug".


----------



## Sencha

Sweet. Really looking forward to the Kinzu V2 now.


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> It's been about 3 days now and still no sign of the "pixel jump bug".


Maybe you could clarify something for me. When playing cs 1.6, what settings do you use?

I'm really having doubts between the kinzu v2 and the kana. But I'm leaning more towards the kinzu v2. The low pcs is the only thing holding me back.
It has omron switches, I love the shape and I already have some corepad skates around here somewhere. But I'm having doubts if I will hit that malfunction speed.

I play with sens 2.9-3.3 and 6/11 with 400cpi. Also use the noforcecommands. Do you think I will pas the pcs with those settings? Or is there something else I haven't thought of in terms of settings? I have no idea what that equals to in cm/360.


----------



## Sencha

So your cm/360 would be what? Around 40cm?


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> So you cm/360 would be what? Around 40cm?


Not really sure, but I don't think it's that much. probably don't even go over 30. I could be mistaken tho'.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> 
> Not really sure, but I don't think it's that much. probably don't even go over 30. I could be mistaken tho'.


http://www.funender.com/quake/mouse/index.html

it says 35.5cm for sens 2.9 and 400dpi, but alot of ppl say that the wmo / imo1.1 / ime3.0 sensor has about 420dpi or even more.


----------



## jeffxx

mine measures out to around 430. it's definitely not 400.


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> http://www.funender.com/quake/mouse/index.html
> it says 35.5cm for sens 2.9 and 400dpi, but alot of ppl say that the wmo / imo1.1 / ime3.0 sensor has about 420dpi or even more.


So its unlikely that I will hit the malfunction speed on the kinzu v2 right?


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> 
> So its unlikely that I will hit the malfunction speed on the kinzu v2 right?


I use 400 DPI, 6/11 and 2.5 in-game (no CPLmousefix, no "no force" commands, only Anir's mouse fix). I have ~ 40 cm/360.
You won't hit the malfunction speed on your flick shots, but if you're used to swiping fast (like my very fast 180* turn) then you will have a problem. It really depends on your style of playing not your sensitivity.


----------



## R3aCt0r M|Nd

Any Info yet on a UK release ? I know some guys have been able to purchase the Kinzu V2 in Germany. Damn I'm so eager for the V2 or kana!


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *R3aCt0r M|Nd*
> 
> Any Info yet on a UK release ? I know some guys have been able to purchase the Kinzu V2 in Germany. Damn I'm so eager for the V2 or kana!


Seems Jan will be when its available all over. I was going to import but I dont like the look of the black gloss.....holding out for the silver.


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> I use 400 DPI, 6/11 and 2.5 in-game (no CPLmousefix, no "no force" commands, only Anir's mouse fix). I have ~ 40 cm/360.
> You won't hit the malfunction speed on your flick shots, but if you're used to swiping fast (like my very fast 180* turn) then you will have a problem. It really depends on your style of playing not your sensitivity.


Thanks for clarifying. I actually don't make that many fast swipes. It will happen occasionally if someone starts shooting at me from behind. But in terms of normal movement, I move my mouse pretty slow. I would normally compare it to my kinzu, but with that sensor I never knew what's what when it come to pos. or neg. accel. Don't think I ever made it skip tho'.

Anywho, I'll hold off untill the kana has been tested. If I'm not impressed I'll probably pick up a silver kinzu v2 pro.


----------



## R3aCt0r M|Nd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *R3aCt0r M|Nd*
> 
> Any Info yet on a UK release ? I know some guys have been able to purchase the Kinzu V2 in Germany. Damn I'm so eager for the V2 or kana!
> 
> 
> 
> Seems Jan will be when its available all over. I was going to import but I dont like the look of the black gloss.....holding out for the silver.
Click to expand...

I see, Well I'm sure I can hold out till january, I had some issues with importing when I got my zowie mico so not keen at all on that. I just hope the V2 will be good at 800 dpi

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


----------



## eko

I ordered Kinzu V2 Pro black yesterday... I will got my hands on it after I get from school... : )


----------



## Sencha

Be sure to report back your findings and views


----------



## eko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Be sure to report back your findings and views


I will... : )


----------



## popobear

Does Kana uses Omron Switches too ?


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popobear*
> 
> Does Kana uses Omron Switches too ?


No, it uses ttc switces. Only the kinzu v2 pro has them. if it did then it was insta buy for me.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> 
> No, it uses ttc switces. Only the kinzu v2 pro has them. if it did then it was insta buy for me.


Don't really know that yet until we have a retail sample of the kana, going by Kimrom's post.


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Don't really know that yet until we have a retail sample of the kana, going by Kimrom's post.


You are correct, I appologize for my previous post. I assumed it has (or had) ttc switches since it was mentioned the beta samples had them. Also the mouse reference thread has kana listed with ttc switches. But like end0rphine said, We have to wait until someone gets their hands on a retail sample.

Another thing I wanted to comment on that I didn't notice before is that the kana is actually lighter than the kinzu v2.

Steeleries has the kana listed as: 72 grams (0.16 lbs) and the kinzu as 77 grams (0.17 lbs).


----------



## digitally

so these new mouse are using TTC switches except for the pro version?


----------



## Mizmo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Don't really know that yet until we have a retail sample of the kana


i got one today. i'm not really an expert and i won't do a full review because my english isn't that good, but if you have any questions....feel free to ask


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mizmo*
> 
> i got one today. i'm not really an expert and i won't do a full review because my english isn't that good, but if you have any questions....feel free to ask


Is it good?

Where did you get it from?

Try using enotus mouse test and see how far the max tracking speed is.

How are the feet? Are they smooth, like teflon?

Draw some lines on paint and test for that pixel jumping bug.


----------



## Mizmo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Where did you get it from?
> .


alternate.de
http://gh.de/681701?t=alle&plz=&va=b&vl=de&v=l#filterform



other questions i will answer after i have used it for some hours


----------



## end0rphine

On your black kana, are the sides rubber or plastic?


----------



## Mizmo

plastic
feet are quite bad on my taito. much worse than my old Xai
minimal raster on mouse wheel, not sure if i like it
both side buttons usable (may depend on the size of your hands)


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mizmo*
> 
> plastic
> feet are quite bad on my taito. much worse than my old Xai
> minimal raster on mouse wheel, not sure if i like it
> both side buttons usable (may depend on the size of your hands)


May you please take a picture of the feet? I want to see if they were actually changed from the original samples.


----------



## Mizmo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> May you please take a picture of the feet? I want to see if they were actually changed from the original samples.


----------



## Sencha

Just post any random thoughts. Its all good for those interested in details. Many thanks


----------



## cROKODILE

Feet seem like plastic.









Fail SS.

Is the side plastic more slippery than rubber on the top?


----------



## digitally

so both kana and kinzu v2 using ttc switches while kinzu v2 pro use omron?


----------



## Mizmo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cROKODILE*
> 
> Is the side plastic more slippery than rubber on the top?


side is more sticky than top.

other pic of bottom


enotus mouse test 800dpi @1000Hz


some drawing in paint. not easy to make nice circles because of bad feet....


----------



## Derp

Are you certain that you bought the final version? When Kim Rom mentioned that they upgraded the feet I assumed it was going to be teflon, not "improved" plastic.


----------



## Skar

thats not teflon on the picture. i guess on upe.


----------



## scandalous

I really don't get steelseries...

They bring out the kinzu v2 pro, which features omron switches and teflon? feet but they put in a sensor which has a low pcs. On the other hand they bring out the kana which features non of the above but it's sensor is quite good.

What's the big deal? Why can't they make a mouse with omron switches, good build quality, and a good sensor...
Why didn't they put the kana sensor in the kinzu v2 and why didn't they put omrons and teflon on the kana?

It's like they screw up on purpose.


----------



## v4mp1

Todo list when im getting a kana in the future:

- Sodler in D2F-01F.
- Replacing the feet with Corepad Kinzu feet.

xD


----------



## Mizmo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Are you certain that you bought the final version? .


retail packaging, bought on big well known trustworthy shop + lots of other german shops have it on stock too, so yes i would assume it's the final version.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mizmo*
> 
> side is more sticky than top.
> other pic of bottom


Thanks. Looks different and updated from what I received but aren't really the same as the Kinzu V2 Pro Ed. or Sensei.

What are your impressions of the build quality? I didn't find my samples all that spectacular, but in SS' defense, I didn't have the retail product.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> 
> I really don't get steelseries...
> They bring out the kinzu v2 pro, which features omron switches and teflon? feet but they put in a sensor which has a low pcs. On the other hand they bring out the kana which features non of the above but it's sensor is quite good.
> What's the big deal? Why can't they make a mouse with omron switches, good build quality, and a good sensor...
> Why didn't they put the kana sensor in the kinzu v2 and why didn't they put omrons and teflon on the kana?
> It's like they screw up on purpose.


"Price point issue" according to one of kimrom's earlier post. I'll leave my personal feelings out of this though.

Anyway, the sensor is technically the same, although it uses a different magnification which effect's max IPS and tracking quality.

The Kinzu v2 is able to track "better" at higher CPI ranges, but isn't as good at max speed as the Kana will be able to track faster, but won't have the same level of tracking quality at values like 1600~. The 3200 CPI setting is interpolated based on recommendations I kinda regret giving.

(Seems a lot of you are happier that the Kana is able to track at high speeds though)


----------



## nyshak

It kind of makes sense that they went with more precision at higher CPI with the Kinzu. The mouse is so small that they will sell it big over in Korea for SC. You do not need high max IPS for this type of game.


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Thanks. Looks different and updated from what I received but aren't really the same as the Kinzu V2 Pro Ed. or Sensei.
> What are your impressions of the build quality? I didn't find my samples all that spectacular, but in SS' defense, I didn't have the retail product.
> "Price point issue" according to one of kimrom's earlier post. I'll leave my personal feelings out of this though.
> Anyway, the sensor is technically the same, although it uses a different magnification which effect's max IPS and tracking quality.
> The Kinzu v2 is able to track "better" at higher CPI ranges, but isn't as good at max speed as the Kana will be able to track faster, but won't have the same level of tracking quality at values like 1600~. The 3200 CPI setting is interpolated based on recommendations I kinda regret giving.
> (Seems a lot of you are happier that the Kana is able to track at high speeds though)


Makes sense. So for someone who plays with 400cpi, what would be the better choice? And if you had to choose one, which would it be?


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> 
> Makes sense. So for someone who plays with 400cpi, what would be the better choice? And if you had to choose one, which would it be?


Well isn't that the million dollar question.









I honestly can't give you a clear answer, but will say this: I tested the mice using a few different playing styles, but I was accommodated to gaming at 40-50cm~. Initially the max speed was quite low and I found my self malfunctioning every other swipe. Later that week, I raised my sensitivity to around 34/360 and while I didn't malfunction as much, it was still possible. Around a month later there was a firmware update that helped boost the max speed up by a hair, but by this point I was testing the Sensei and newer Kana and didn't really go back to the Kinzu.

My thoughts:

- I personally found the Kinzu v2 PE sample to have better build quality than the Kana's. I'm not sure if that holds true for retail.
- Between the build and plastic feet, I really didn't like using the Kana. The Kinzu PE felt like a much better product in comparison.
- The 400 CPI step on the Kinzu is more controlled. I guess the best way of explaining it would be to state that the Kana's 400 CPI value acts like 800 CPI on the Kinzu v2 and so forth. (Just slower)


----------



## Mizmo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> What are your impressions of the build quality? I didn't find my samples all that spectacular


apart from mouse feet, I think that the overall build quality is good. maybe not spectacular, but for most people it should be more than okay. only thing i noticed is that the connector where cable enters mouse body is maybe a little loose, but nothing that bad.....
i think that pressure point of side buttons is a little too soft, but that's personal preference


----------



## Jalal

Why even make a normal kinzu? Why not make the pro one standard?

edit: assumption does not replace truth. imo still too expensive though


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scandalous*
> 
> I really don't get steelseries...
> They bring out the kinzu v2 pro, which features omron switches and teflon? feet but they put in a sensor which has a low pcs. On the other hand they bring out the kana which features non of the above but it's sensor is quite good.


I have the Kinzu V2 Pro glossy black and the skates are not teflon. My guess is they're the same crappy plastic used on Kana. I just replaced them with Steelseries Glide Kinzu (same material used on Glide Xai etc) and the original ones were definitely not teflon. All the switches are Omron though.
I don't know what kimron understands by upgrading the skates on the Pro Edition version. Maybe in the beginning they didn't have skates at all and adding some terrible plastic feet looks like an upgrade. This isn't such a big deal, but i did had to spend extra $ (which also goes to Steelseries btw, maybe that's the ideea).


----------



## vss vintorez

At the end... is Kana better than zowie AM in terms of tracking speed and presicion ?


----------



## scandalous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> I have the Kinzu V2 Pro glossy black and the skates are not teflon. My guess is they're the same crappy plastic used on Kana. I just replaced them with Steelseries Glide Kinzu (same material used on Glide Xai etc) and the original ones were definitely not teflon. All the switches are Omron though.
> I don't know what kimron understands by upgrading the skates on the Pro Edition version. Maybe in the beginning they didn't have skates at all and adding some terrible plastic feet looks like an upgrade. This isn't such a big deal, but i did had to spend extra $ (which also goes to Steelseries btw, maybe that's the ideea).


Already figured that out from your kinzu v2 thread. Thanks for the info. It isn't really an issue tho', since I already have some corepad telfon feet which I bought for my first kinzu.

So the question I struggle with now is, Omron switches vs higher PCS.


----------



## yashau

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> At the end... is Kana better than zowie AM in terms of tracking speed and presicion ?


Pretty much the same on paper but the Pixart sensors 'feel' kinda weird. I always like Avago better so Zowie AM would be the choice if I were to decide between the two and the AM has better feet as well.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yashau*
> 
> Pretty much the same on paper but the Pixart sensors 'feel' kinda weird. I always like Avago better so Zowie AM would be the choice if I were to decide between the two.


That's what I'm scared of... that sense of weirdness xD, that you move and the mouse is not responding exactly where you want It may be some pixels but a lifestime gamer can feel that







.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1188509/fps-in-mouse/10#post_16009551

He explained that well, and Derp once said that more than 6000fps is ok...
In conclusion FPS in Kana (3600) will affect your aim if you come from Intellimousexplorer 3.0 (9000fps) or Sensei (12000) which have a pretty high fps range !
I think Pixart cut fps to increase IPS . The less images the process the more IPS you get and at the same time you loose 'presicion'.


----------



## Skylit

.


----------



## bowflex

One more thing - the perfect control speeds are the same for both mices and they differ just in terms of malfunction speed or kana's perfect control speed is higher then kinzu's v2?


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> [/B]
> You can't really claim that as they're 3 different sensors with completely different architectures. It's probable that low FPS makes the sensor feel weird or different, but whether it effects aim is another thing.
> In terms of max pixel processing power, the PAW3305DK(-H) is actually superior to Avago's entry level ADNS-3050 which runs at 6666~ FPS since it takes larger 32x32 pictures instead of smaller 19x19 ones.
> Avago 3050 19x19 x 6666= 2.4 Megapixels a sec
> Avago 3060/3080/3090/3668/3888/3095...etc 30x30 x 6469= 5.8 Megapixels a sec
> Avago 9500 30x30 x 11750 or 12000 or 13333 FPS = 10.5/10.8/12 Megapixels a sec.
> ST MLT 04 6000 FPS 22x22 x 6000 FPS = 2.9 Megapixels a sec.
> ST MLT 04 9000 FPS 22x22 x 9000 FPS = 4.3 Megapixels a sec
> Pixart PAW3305DK(-H) 32x32x3600 FPS = 3.7 Megapixels a sec
> I honestly can't tell the difference between the ST 6000 and 9000 and they're right between the Pixart when it comes to processing power.
> They're not "cutting FPS". They increase IPS by changing the magnification to a smaller size. The sensor with it's current firmware isn't that great via 1.0x lens.. Well compared to what other sensors are capable of.....
> The same rule could apply to Avago sensors, although Avago won't back or support lower or higher than 1.0x magnification on their 30x30 sensors.


Very interesting. What about the acceleration (positive and negative) of A9500? Can you explain what happens technically? What exactly did Steelseries do to the Sensei to diminish the negative acceleration compared to Xai? Is it only the firmware?


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Seriously skylit, you should make a thorough article explaining everything you know about mice. Kinda like the mechanical keyboard guide here on OCN.
That would be awesome


----------



## eko

Ok so I bought Kinzu V2 Pro black edition and where can I download SteelSeries Engine?

I've downloaded Sensei one and it now works perfect! Recommend Kinzu V2 Pro very very much!


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eko*
> 
> Ok so I bought Kinzu V2 Pro black edition and where can I download SteelSeries Engine?


http://steelseries.com/g/steelseries-engine


----------



## end0rphine

Please open your retail kana and take pictures to end this once and forever!!!!!!


----------



## Mizmo

sry don't really like the idea of opening my mouse......and i put the feet of my Xai on it, if i take them off again i'll need to buy new ones or glue them and don't want to do that...


----------



## bowflex

i ll double post .
for kana 130ips is perfect control speed or 130ips is malfunction speed???


----------



## end0rphine

Are the buttons nice though? Not too hard or soft?


----------



## Mizmo

as said before i think that buttons are mostly personal preference. M1-3 are comparable to Xai, side buttons are maybe little bit too soft. steps on mouse wheel have very low resistence, scrolling is very smooth and makes nearly 0 noise but because of that when you press M3 it can happen that you scroll 1 up/down.


----------



## Glymbol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EthanNixon*
> 
> I don't see how that enotus test can be regarded as any kind of test at all...
> 
> According to that, my SteelSeries Kinzu gets 17.2m/s and is 99.9% accurate...


Kinzu has acceleration, this affects results from Enotus. I think 17.2 m/s is surely a spike when the mouse pass it's malfunction speed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zwiebi*
> 
> Lol, tell me about the Spawn...]


It's very bad on your video. I can set my Spawn to be like this too, but I don't believe it's best you can get from it. The Spawn is good when used FW 32, 1800 CPI @ 250Hz on black mousepad. It has about 2.5 m/s max speed and ~1.5 mm LOD which is fine. It's light and well built (except thick cord), it has nice buttons and really good scrollwheel.

I if I were you I would be concerned about noticeable lag you got between mouse movement and actual view rotation in game.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> [/B]
> You can't really claim that as they're 3 different sensors with completely different architectures. It's probable that low FPS makes the sensor feel weird or different, but whether it effects aim is another thing.
> In terms of max pixel processing power, the PAW3305DK(-H) is actually superior to Avago's entry level ADNS-3050 which runs at 6666~ FPS since it takes larger 32x32 pictures instead of smaller 19x19 ones.
> Avago 3050 19x19 x 6666= 2.4 Megapixels a sec
> *Avago 3060/3080/3090/3668/3888/3095...etc 30x30 x 6469= 5.8 Megapixels a sec*
> Avago 9500 30x30 x 11750 or 12000 or 13333 FPS = 10.5/10.8/12 Megapixels a sec.
> ST MLT 04 6000 FPS 22x22 x 6000 FPS = 2.9 Megapixels a sec.
> ST MLT 04 9000 FPS 22x22 x 9000 FPS = 4.3 Megapixels a sec
> *Pixart PAW3305DK(-H) 32x32x3600 FPS = 3.7 Megapixels a sec*
> I honestly can't tell the difference between the ST 6000 and 9000 and they're right between the Pixart when it comes to processing power.
> They're not "cutting FPS". They increase IPS by changing the magnification to a smaller size. The sensor with it's current firmware isn't that great via 1.0x lens.. Well compared to what other sensors are capable of.....
> The same rule could apply to Avago sensors, although Avago won't back or support lower or higher than 1.0x magnification on their 30x30 sensors.


Underline: That's between Kana and Kinzu v2.. I know.

Bold: As you see the avago 3090 vs pixart, it's easier to know how much space and the direction of the movement by having double fps that's simply a fact in image processing.
I think if you make really slow movements, but really slow diagonally you'll catch what I mean.

off: how old are you btw ? that's something I wanted to know since I started to be a member of this forum.


----------



## Creizai

Don't forget to post up some pictures and your thoughts !


----------



## 161029

Awesome. But will we still be able to make Kinzuadders or will you guys make it as good as a deathadder?


----------



## f0rld

Sorry for not to ask about kinzu v2 pro edition, kinzu v2 or kana but can you give us a some kind of small-scale clue if you are planning to make a right-handed gaming mouse (shape-wise i would say something close to MS 3.0)?


----------



## bowflex

guys tell me please kana has glossy grip or not?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bowflex*
> 
> guys tell me please kana has glossy grip or not?


The top is glossy and the sides have textured plastic similar to the WMO. That's the white beta version that I have though. From the pictures it looks like the black version has a coating on the top.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> The top is glossy and the sides have textured plastic similar to the WMO. That's the white beta version that I have though. From the pictures it looks like the black version has a coating on the top.


Oh didn't know that. Previously thought the white was all gloss. Interesting though.


----------



## f0rld

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Oh didn't know that. Previously thought the white was all gloss. Interesting though.


Darn. i really hoped that kana has fully rubber coated version too. My hands are sweaty when gaming so that's why.


----------



## bowflex

so as i understood from all types of kana and kinzu v2 - only 1 model of kinzu v2 has the same grip and material which were used in xai? oh crap...
And is there a huge difference between TTC and Omron switches?


----------



## Cek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bowflex*
> 
> so as i understood from all types of kana and kinzu v2 - only 1 model of kinzu v2 has the same grip and material which were used in xai? oh crap...
> And is there a huge difference between TTC and Omron switches?


not so huge, TTCs are louder and have differnt feedback


----------



## Zhuni

If anyone sees a silver or red Kinzu V2 pro in Europe can you post up a link


----------



## Derp

A small update, It has been 12 days since Steelseries offered to send me retail mice but I still don't have them. Maybe the shipping has been delayed but many shipping days have passed in that time and I'm not going to harass them about it.

I know some people were interested to find out if Steelseries fixed the tracking bugs and It seems others who have purchased the mouse have answered those questions already but I personally can't believe them. Various other mice that were deemed bug free from other users certainly weren't bug free when I bought them.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> A small update, It has been 12 days since Steelseries offered to send me retail mice but I still don't have them. Maybe the shipping has been delayed but many shipping days have passed in that time and I'm not going to harass them about it.
> I know some people were interested to find out if Steelseries fixed the tracking bugs and It seems others who have purchased the mouse have answered those questions already but I personally can't believe them. Various other mice that were deemed bug free from other users certainly weren't bug free when I bought them.


this

also why do people LIKE the loud switches steelseries uses? i personally think the gear should never make a noise.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> this
> also why do people LIKE the loud switches steelseries uses? i personally think the gear should never make a noise.


Why do people LIKE the hard switches zowie uses?


----------



## glenn37216

glenn37216 <~ ...is patiently waiting on Derps retail mouse to decide if this is the right mouse for him .


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> A small update, It has been 12 days since Steelseries offered to send me retail mice but I still don't have them. Maybe the shipping has been delayed but many shipping days have passed in that time and I'm not going to harass them about it.
> I know some people were interested to find out if Steelseries fixed the tracking bugs and It seems others who have purchased the mouse have answered those questions already but I personally can't believe them. Various other mice that were deemed bug free from other users certainly weren't bug free when I bought them.


Happened the same to me... And I'm afraid of the feeling of presicion with my old 1.1SE. (I just feel amazingly precise in cs 1.6).
Can you describe that 'weirdness' you felt while using Kana? (some people said it's due to pixart sensors)

Just waiting for your review, then I'll decide between kana and AM...









pd: I trust your reviews Derp !


----------



## bojinglebells

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bowflex*
> 
> so as i understood from all types of kana and kinzu v2 - only 1 model of kinzu v2 has the same grip and material which were used in xai? oh crap...
> And is there a huge difference between TTC and Omron switches?


Xai grip material wears off pretty easily, I have two of them and both are starting to show wear spots where my fingers rest after less than a year with each (and even splitting use)

as _awesome_ as the coating feels when new I'm thinking about getting an alternative if only because it wears too easily


----------



## rmp459

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bojinglebells*
> 
> Xai grip material wears off pretty easily, I have two of them and both are starting to show wear spots where my fingers rest after less than a year with each (and even splitting use)
> as _awesome_ as the coating feels when new I'm thinking about getting an alternative if only because it wears too easily


I've been using my xai at work for 18 months and the only thing that is slightly worn is the steelseries logo in silver, one area of it is every so slightly faded enough to see some dark through it.


----------



## Sriracha

If Steelseries made a flagship IME 3.0 shaped mouse with the Deathadder's sensor, Xai's coating and switches, and the Sensei's lighting system then I would be sold. Besides, with the Ikari being slowly phased out, I think it's time for another right handed mouse to come along.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sriracha*
> 
> If Steelseries made a flagship IME 3.0 shaped mouse with the Deathadder's sensor, Xai's coating and switches, and the Sensei's lighting system then I would be sold. Besides, with the Ikari being slowly phased out, I think it's time for another right handed mouse to come along.


If it's a steelseries flagship, it'll most likely have the A-9500 sensor in it


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glenn37216*
> 
> glenn37216 <~ ...is patiently waiting on Derps retail mouse to decide if this is the right mouse for him .


Another business day has passed without the delivery, they might have changed their mind about sending them.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> Happened the same to me... And I'm afraid of the feeling of presicion with my old 1.1SE. (I just feel amazingly precise in cs 1.6).
> Can you describe that 'weirdness' you felt while using Kana? (some people said it's due to pixart sensors)
> Just waiting for your review, then I'll decide between kana and AM...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pd: I trust your reviews Derp !


I thought that the weird feeling stemmed from the jump bug but it might also just be the pixart sensor and its specific prediction. I wish I could describe it better though.... the tracking just feels different with the beta Kana, Kinzu v2 pro and my Mico compared to the other mice that I own.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Another business day has passed without the delivery, they might have changed their mind about sending them.
> I thought that the weird feeling stemmed from the jump bug but it might also just be the pixart sensor and its specific prediction. I wish I could describe it better though.... the tracking just feels different with the beta Kana, Kinzu v2 pro and my Mico compared to the other mice that I own.


mhmhmh, at least did your score in games dropped ?
I think they realized that this community is too much for them... it's very hard to satisfy your expectations.


----------



## glenn37216

Just heard from Kim on Twitter . Looks like the Kana hits North America in early January. So I'll probably take a chance with it since it's hard to find a mouse that fits my claw grip. Hopefully the small problems encounterd so far is either fixed or unnoticeable in the recent builds. :}

Kim Rom

@glenn37216 January.

Dec 28, 8:46 AM via Twitter for Mac

In reply to&#8230;

Glenn37216

@KimRom When does the Kana get released in North America? Looking to pre-order but I can't find a USA retailer that has them....


----------



## toopz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> mhmhmh, at least did your score in games dropped ?
> I think they realized that this community is too much for them... it's very hard to satisfy your expectations.


Dude stop asking endless questions. If you read this thread properly!
Kana Kinzu use Pixart sensor and which has some bugs.
Even if they solve those bugs tracking wont be so good because of crappy sensor.
No point keep going on and comparing this to MS3.0 or WMO because they are have far better tracking than pixart sensor.

Steelseries / Kim Rom is not here to sell or satisfying expectations of people here. I believe he is so busy and he has very little time to spend here.
They just wanted to test more of their products and try to make them better. They are here to find out if they miss something from their pro testing players.
He cant please everyone TBH. Even if Kinzu V2 or Kana hasnt been that good for people here. They will make good sell of those mice.

Steelseries is growing bigger everyday and they do make good products than Razer ****. They think more from players point of view; how their peripherals should be like.
And I think only SS can bring out your dream light weight mouse with nice sensor in future (maybe Kinzu V3 or Kana V2. Give them more time.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toopz*
> 
> Dude stop asking endless questions. If you read this thread properly!
> Kana Kinzu use Pixart sensor and which has some bugs.
> Even if they solve those bugs tracking wont be so good because of crappy sensor.
> No point keep going on and comparing this to MS3.0 or WMO because they are have far better tracking than pixart sensor.
> Steelseries / Kim Rom is not here to sell or satisfying expectations of people here. I believe he is so busy and he has very little time to spend here.
> They just wanted to test more of their products and try to make them better. They are here to find out if they miss something from their pro testing players.
> He cant please everyone TBH. Even if Kinzu V2 or Kana hasnt been that good for people here. They will make good sell of those mice.
> Steelseries is growing bigger everyday and they do make good products than Razer ****. They think more from players point of view; how their peripherals should be like.
> And I think only SS can bring out your dream light weight mouse with nice sensor in future (maybe Kinzu V3 or Kana V2. Give them more time.


Don't care what you think, I just want Derp's opinion...


----------



## end0rphine

I don't know, from what I've read the kana/kinzu isn't that bad, and I was going to replace the feet anyway..

The only obstacle I see is the 'smoothness' which is perhaps something I have to acknowledge myself when I get my hands on it. I really only want it for its' shape.


----------



## luniq

I bought a Kana few days ago and just wanted to share my impression on the mouse









First of all i have to say im not a hardcore gamer, i play tf2 occasionally and my old mouse was cheap logitech rx1000 so i i cannot really comment on the performance. But it is surely much better than my old mouse. First day I got the mouse, i test the mouse by going sniper on tf2. I rarely play sniper so im not good at it, but i found the mouse to be very precise, I could track people easier and i got quite a number of sweep headshot which i dont always get with the rx1000. Im still getting use to it though because the rx1000 had terrible acceleration. The glides could be improved, the rx1000 has less glides but it is a bit smoother on my qck pad.

On the design, the shape was the reason i get it over razer, it feels more natural to me. I had abyssus for 2 days but sold it to a friend, other than the shape it was also too small. The kana could be a little bit bigger for my hand but it is fine really. The length from the tip of my middle finger to my wrist is about 21cm if anybody wants to compare. I expected the r/l buttons to be easier to click like the abyssus but they are not, they are comparable to ordinary mice. There is 1 button on each side, they are large and i sometimes accidentally clicked the right one (i am right handed). Not too much of a problem since i dont use them.

All in all, it is a simple mouse with a good performance but with some minor stuff that can be improved. Other alternative for me was logitech mice, but they have high pitch noise coming out of their mice. I had a g500 but only used it for few days, the noise coming out of the mouse was really annoying.


----------



## Sriracha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> If it's a steelseries flagship, it'll most likely have the A-9500 sensor in it


They could release an optical and a laser version of it just like the Ikari.


----------



## Mizmo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Please open your retail kana and take pictures to end this once and forever!!!!!!


http://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/18147866-post73.html


----------



## Nopileus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mizmo*
> 
> http://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/18147866-post73.html


Let me post them properly on here, best i could do without a proper setup.

It has TTC switches for all all mouse buttons and the modeswitch, and "Kailh" switches for the sides.


----------



## 337drew

Out of curiosity, why is there tape on the inside covering the sensor? Does that serve to prevent light from bleeding through the shell?

Off topic - What mouse pad is that?


----------



## Nopileus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *337drew*
> 
> Out of curiosity, why is there tape on the inside covering the sensor? Does that serve to prevent light from bleeding through the shell?
> Off topic - What mouse pad is that?


Good question with the Tape, i have no idea.
Pad is a Zowie P-TF.

btw, i also have a Kinzu V2 Pro which has much superior feet (actually teflon), while the Kana has those plastic ones known from the original Kinzu. (Put on Corepad ones now)


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nopileus*
> 
> Let me post them properly on here, best i could do without a proper setup.
> It has TTC switches for all all mouse buttons and the modeswitch, and "Kailh" switches for the sides.


My beta Kana has the same switch layout. But the OP mentions that they upgraded the switches?


----------



## Skar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *337drew*
> 
> Out of curiosity, why is there tape on the inside covering the sensor? Does that serve to prevent light from bleeding through the shell?
> Off topic - What mouse pad is that?


pad looks like zowie g-tf


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *337drew*
> 
> Out of curiosity, why is there tape on the inside covering the sensor? Does that serve to prevent light from bleeding through the shell?
> Off topic - What mouse pad is that?
> 
> 
> 
> pad looks like zowie g-tf
Click to expand...

Nopileus opend up the mouse, so, I think he knows what mouse pad he's got.


----------



## Derp

NCIX US claims to have these mice in stock at the moment.

10 black Kana
5 white Kana
5 silver Kinzu V2


----------



## end0rphine

If they upgraded the switches prior to this, then they must have been pretty bad lol


----------



## Vikhr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> NCIX US claims to have these mice in stock at the moment.
> 10 black Kana
> 5 white Kana
> 5 silver Kinzu V2


Well then, I may just order a Kana for s*** and giggles.

If I do end up getting a Kana I'll try to post my impressions of it.

Edit: Just ordered a Black and Orange Kana, if the thing turns out to be terrible then I'll just get a Zowie AM.


----------



## jerronchua55

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nopileus*
> 
> Good question with the Tape, i have no idea.
> Pad is a Zowie P-TF.
> btw, i also have a Kinzu V2 Pro which has much superior feet (actually teflon), while the Kana has those plastic ones known from the original Kinzu. (Put on Corepad ones now)


Does the Kana or Kinzu V2 Pro feel more accurate? I think I read one of Skylit's post that whilst the Kana uses a 0.5x lens as opposed to the 1.0x lens found in the Kinzu V2 to double the perfect control speed, it actually makes the sensor feel more weird and inaccurate. Is that true?


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> My beta Kana has the same switch layout. But the OP mentions that they upgraded the switches?


Retail version has't arrived yet ?


----------



## Skar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Nopileus opend up the mouse, so, I think he knows what mouse pad he's got.


on the last picture you can see the zowie tag on the top right


----------



## hza

**Edit** I got a G-TF speed... I think I was confused by G-RF/P-RF a little bit. P-TF is just the smaller version of G-TF... So, what's wrong?


----------



## illwill

I also just ordered the Kana (white) for ****s and giggles. If it's bad I'll just put it on eBay or something


----------



## Nopileus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jerronchua55*
> 
> Does the Kana or Kinzu V2 Pro feel more accurate? I think I read one of Skylit's post that whilst the Kana uses a 0.5x lens as opposed to the 1.0x lens found in the Kinzu V2 to double the perfect control speed, it actually makes the sensor feel more weird and inaccurate. Is that true?


To me they feel about the same (both on 400dpi, ~30cm/360), i'm pretty sure that i can't hit the perfect control speed on the Kinzu so it feels just as good.
I have not tried any of them on higher dpi settings.

The Kinzu is my winner because it has good feet, weights 10grams less and has more responsive switches, even though i don't always like the sticky surface.

I actually put them both on a scale because the weight Steelseries states is false.
Kinzu V2 Pro: 77g
Kana: 87g


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nopileus*
> 
> The Kinzu is my winner because it has good feet, weights 10grams less and has more responsive switches, even though i don't always like the sticky surface.


Are you sure about this? My Kinzu V2 Pro Black came with cheap plastic skates.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1187517/steelseries-kinzu-v2-pro-testing
Can you post a picture?


----------



## Nopileus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> Are you sure about this? My Kinzu V2 Pro Black came with cheap plastic skates.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1187517/steelseries-kinzu-v2-pro-testing
> Can you post a picture?


Looks exactly like that, its black teflon. (does get more shiny when you use it)
Has much smoother glide compared to the Corepad ones on my Kana now, and doesn't stick to the surface like the original Kana feet.

The ones found on the original Kinzu and Kana are far worse.

Those "stripes" clearly show it being teflon (same as on the AM), the plastic feet have a grainy surface.


----------



## kaingosu

I don't know about Kana, but these ones felt like cheap plastic. You can clearly see the light bouncing is not the same. I used it like that for 4-5 days and the glide was terrible. I had to buy Steelseries glide Kinzu and replace the original ones. Now it glides like ice.


----------



## thuNDa

that's how the plastic-feet actually look:
http://i.imgur.com/jmcwZ.jpg


----------



## Derp

The Kinzu v2 pro's feet were definitely a step up from the junk plastic on the Kana but they didn't have the glide of other mice that have real teflon feet. Its most likely a blend. Whatever it is, on a cloth pad the Kinzu v2 pro's feet are usable, the Kana's feet definitely aren't.

The Kana's feet have a slower glide than stock WMO feet....









Again, I must note that the above opinion was formed after using beta mice.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Again, I must note that the above opinion was formed after using beta mice.


yes, you must.


----------



## Nopileus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> The Kinzu v2 pro's feet were definitely a step up from the junk plastic on the Kana but they didn't have the glide of other mice that have real teflon feet. Its most likely a blend. Whatever it is, on a cloth pad the Kinzu v2 pro's feet are usable, the Kana's feet definitely aren't.
> The Kana's feet have a slower glide than stock WMO feet....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I must note that the above opinion was formed after using beta mice.


That sounds exactly like what i experienced


----------



## eko

I use my Kinzu V2 Pro on QcK... It has blend of the teflon and plastic ones, it is okey on QcK, don't know for hard pads... It could be a little better but never mind... I can always put Kinzu glides...







Other than that mouse is great! It is a bit sweaty Joe, but other than that 10/10... Those Omrons are kick ass!


----------



## innov

Which one's buttons are harder to press, Kana's or Zowie AM's?


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *337drew*
> 
> Out of curiosity, why is there tape on the inside covering the sensor? Does that *serve to prevent light from bleeding through the shell*?
> Off topic - What mouse pad is that?


Ding. Other than that, there's really no purpose.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> The Kinzu v2 pro's feet were definitely a step up from the junk plastic on the Kana but they didn't have the glide of other mice that have real teflon feet. Its most likely a blend.


That's what i thought. They definitely don't feel like 100% PTFE.


----------



## end0rphine

So we lose either way? lol


----------



## thuNDa

I have bought, what looked/felt exactly like the corepad-skates in china for about 1,50€ per set on ebay.
So you can imagine, how much it would cost Steelseries to use 100% teflon feet for their mice.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> I have bought, what looked/felt exactly like the corepad-skates in china for about 1,50€ per set on ebay.
> So you can imagine, how much it would cost Steelseries to use 100% teflon feet for their mice.


Too much


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> So we lose either way? lol


Steelseries has a phobia about including teflon feet with their optical mice I guess. After buying the first kinzu I couldn't believe that a company could put hard plastic feet on a "gaming" mouse, it barely moved on my QCK. But I figured meh, all companies make mistakes. Then my beta Kana had hard plastic feet as well and even after taking our advice it seems that people are buying retail Kana's with similar plastic feet. I just don't get it....

I get the same feeling when Zowie manages to release two mice back to back that have a physical flaw that allows the left and right clicks to overlap each other.

Can you think of another mouse manufacturer that sells gaming mice with plastic feet? Or another company that sells mice where the left and right clicks overlap each other? I certainly can't and yet these two companies are repeating these mistakes as if its normal.

Poor decisions and poor testing.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Can you think of another mouse manufacturer that sells gaming mice with plastic feet? Or another company that sells mice where the left and right clicks overlap each other? I certainly can't and yet these two companies are repeating these mistakes as if its normal.


At least these mistakes are fixable. I can think of Logitech using non-centered sensors and Razer refusing to update that jittering firmware on Abyssus (after how many years?)







Those of us looking for a flawless mouse are doomed to disappointment.


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> At least these mistakes are fixable. I can think of Logitech using non-centered sensors and Razer refusing to update that jittering firmware on Abyssus (after how many years?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those of us looking for a flawless mouse are doomed to disappointment.


I think you nailed it perfectly with this. Every company does make flaws and will continue to make them. I do however think the Zowie **** was blown way out of proportion. The Mico supposedly has the same problem but I literally have to focus on trying to make it happen if I want them to touch which hey it happens. My old boomslang is my most loved mouse but going back to it my hand is just too small to use it effectively. I would love a boomslang the size of the Diamondback but I'm not going to cry a river.

Sucks because AM looks really good and I think alot of people will simply pass it up. Oh look guys on OC.net said it sucks because the buttons touch with a small number of people so I'll pass. Even though almost everything else is extremely good not perfect but good.

Still waiting to replace my 1.1a as my fps mouse though. So heres for hoping the Kana doesn't suck.


----------



## DeMS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> At least these mistakes are fixable. I can think of Logitech using non-centered sensors and Razer refusing to update that jittering firmware on Abyssus (after how many years?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those of us looking for a flawless mouse are doomed to disappointment.


Afaik Abyssus cannot have it's firmware updated, it's probably a ROM with no physical way to be rewritten.

If Kinzu/Kana had teflon mousefeet and used 3090 or 3060 sensor, I might consider getting one.

But now I'm sold on the AM


----------



## Sencha

I'm re-buying the AM. Even though I had the mouse button clash issue. Its a superb mouse!


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> I'm re-buying the AM. Even though I had the mouse button clash issue. Its a superb mouse!


That bug is fixed ! Make sure to get a second batch btw !!


----------



## Sencha

Yeah I'm just waiting to hear back from Zowie and Kustompcs.


----------



## innov

I think bad mousefeet is one of the least important concerns one can have about a mouse since it's so easy and cheap to change them to better ones. What I'm concerned about are the switches since changing those requires bit more skill.


----------



## sixxxxxx

For those that have the Kana, how big are the mouse feet? I'm considering picking one up, but it seems like I'll need to pick up new mouse feet.

Will feet for the Xai fit on the Kana?


----------



## journey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> I'm re-buying the AM. Even though I had the mouse button clash issue. Its a superb mouse!


I got rid of my Kinzu V2 Pro too in order to get the AM. The AM feels a lot better in every aspect not to mention that the tracking is superb.


----------



## Nopileus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sixxxxxx*
> 
> For those that have the Kana, how big are the mouse feet? I'm considering picking one up, but it seems like I'll need to pick up new mouse feet.
> Will feet for the Xai fit on the Kana?


Kinzu size


----------



## fasti

Seems like you can ~easily open the switches on Kana?

Middle and left switch are quite close, but do they open from ends? Had hard time opening switches that open from side >< and impossible if they were close each other too.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fasti*
> 
> Seems like you can ~easily open the switches on Kana?
> Middle and left switch are quite close, but do they open from ends? Had hard time opening switches that open from side >< and impossible if they were close each other too.


You can open them from the ends, like you do with omron D2FC-F-7N.


----------



## Derp

I just received the retail versions of the Kinzu V2 pro and the Kana. The pixel jumping bug is still there on the release mice and the Kana's feet are indeed the same hard plastic that have an extremely slow glide. I attached some pictures demonstrating the bug and the max tracking speeds that Enotus claims.

As you can see, I was able to get the bug to trigger on only a single north and then south movement with both mice within a minute or two of testing. None of these lines were erased or changed in any way.


----------



## 337drew

F$%K that. Way to fail Steelseries. Do you even have a QA department? Wasted my time waiting for this mouse.

Now to find a Korean retailer who'll ship me a G100...


----------



## Vikhr

Well I guess I'll just cancel that order for the Kana now...

Maybe if SS can get their act together and fix the bug then I'll give it a try but for now I guess I'm back to the IMO and possibly the AM once it pops up on Amazon.


----------



## sixxxxxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I just received the retail versions of the Kinzu V2 pro and the Kana. The pixel jumping bug is still there on the release mice and the Kana's feet are indeed the same hard plastic that have an extremely slow glide. I attached some pictures demonstrating the bug and the max tracking speeds that Enotus claims.
> As you can see, I was able to get the bug to trigger on only a single north and then south movement with both mice within a minute or two of testing. None of these lines were erased or changed in any way.


Other than the jump bug the tracking speeds are quite good on the Kana though, right? Also, hows the build quality on the Kana?

Lastly, this is kind of off topic but was the perfect control speed on the Sensei better than the Xai's (on cloth and hard pads), or was it pretty much the same? I know you and Skylit mentioned that the malfunction speed on cloth is much higher on the Sensei, but what about the perfect control speed? I've been torn between buying the Kana/Sensei/Zowie AM and can't make up my mind. Trying to decide right now.


----------



## end0rphine

Are you serious? You're looking solely at the max tracking speed when the tracking itself is fu$%ed?


----------



## sixxxxxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Are you serious? You're looking solely at the max tracking speed when the tracking itself is fu$%ed?


I'm asking because if the tracking speeds were garbage on the Kana, I wouldn't even consider it to begin with. The jump bug that's popping up is something that I'm hoping can be fixed. In all honesty I'm more looking at the Sensei and Zowie AM at this point.

And no, there's no way on earth I would buy the Kana right now.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sixxxxxx*
> 
> I'm asking because if the tracking speeds were garbage on the Kana, I wouldn't even consider it to begin with. The jump bug that's popping up is something that I'm hoping can be fixed. In all honesty I'm more looking at the Sensei and Zowie AM at this point.
> And no, there's no way on earth I would buy the Kana right now.


Honestly, the AM has great tracking, better than the sensei. On the other hand, the shape, switches and whether or not the button issue affects you is all relative. If you have a small hand, definitely the AM.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sixxxxxx*
> 
> Other than the jump bug the tracking speeds are quite good on the Kana though, right? Also, hows the build quality on the Kana?
> Lastly, this is kind of off topic but was the perfect control speed on the Sensei better than the Xai's (on cloth and hard pads), or was it pretty much the same? I know you and Skylit mentioned that the malfunction speed on cloth is much higher on the Sensei, but what about the perfect control speed? I've been torn between buying the Kana/Sensei/Zowie AM and can't make up my mind. Trying to decide right now.


Yes, the Kana's perfect control speed is wonderful but it seems Steelseries didn't follow through with our feedback. I was never too picky about build quality, even TTC switches are fine in my book as long as they work. The Kana's build quality seems fine to me but using plastic feet (Kana) and a buggy Pixart sensor prevents me from being a fan of either of these mice.

I don't like using the term perfect control speed when referring to A9500 laser mice because the acceleration isn't consistent. But yes, the Sensei tracks at a much higher speed before hitting that negative acceleration wall on cloth pads compared to my Xai. On a hard pad I can't get either mouse to show negative acceleration.

After all of this testing I prefer the Sensei out of these three mice that Steelseries sent me and I still prefer my WMO to it.

Disappointing.


----------



## Sencha

Good work Derp. May still grab one but I'll make sure its off amazon so I can return it easy.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sixxxxxx*
> 
> Other than the jump bug the tracking speeds are quite good on the Kana though, right? Also, hows the build quality on the Kana?
> Lastly, this is kind of off topic but was the perfect control speed on the Sensei better than the Xai's (on cloth and hard pads), or was it pretty much the same? I know you and Skylit mentioned that the malfunction speed on cloth is much higher on the Sensei, but what about the perfect control speed? I've been torn between buying the Kana/Sensei/Zowie AM and can't make up my mind. Trying to decide right now.


Having owned the Zowie AM and sensei I'd say go with the Zowie. Once the button are fixed (by yourself or zowie) its a far better mouse.


----------



## sixxxxxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Honestly, the AM has great tracking, better than the sensei. On the other hand, the shape, switches and whether or not the button issue affects you is all relative. If you have a small hand, definitely the AM.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Having owned the Zowie AM and sensei I'd say go with the Zowie. Once the button are fixed (by yourself or zowie) its a far better mouse.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Yes, the Kana's perfect control speed is wonderful but it seems Steelseries didn't follow through with our feedback. I was never too picky about build quality, even TTC switches are fine in my book as long as they work. The Kana's build quality seems fine to me but using plastic feet (Kana) and a buggy Pixart sensor prevents me from being a fan of either of these mice.
> I don't like using the term perfect control speed when referring to A9500 laser mice because the acceleration isn't consistent. But yes, the Sensei tracks at a much higher speed before hitting that negative acceleration wall on cloth pads compared to my Xai. On a hard pad I can't get either mouse to show negative acceleration.
> After all of this testing I prefer the Sensei out of these three mice that Steelseries sent me and I still prefer my WMO to it.
> Disappointing.


Thanks for the info, I'll probably wait until the AM comes out in the U.S. before I make a decision. I never was really bothered all too much by the accel on the Xai and I prefer the glossy coating on the Sensei but it's pretty hard to turn down superior tracking for a cheaper price (I believe the AM is $60 vs the Sensei's $90).


----------



## Sencha

Part of the reason I sent back my Sensei was the price. I just thought it wasnt worth it for what it was. Its a decent mouse but not worth the cash.


----------



## illwill

It boggles my mind how Steelseries continues to release products that are **** over and over. Plastic feet? Really? I don't care what kind of excuse Kim Rom has, there is nothing that can justify that.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I just received the retail versions of the Kinzu V2 pro and the Kana. The pixel jumping bug is still there on the release mice and the Kana's feet are indeed the same hard plastic that have an extremely slow glide. I attached some pictures demonstrating the bug and the max tracking speeds that Enotus claims.
> 
> As you can see, I was able to get the bug to trigger on only a single north and then south movement with both mice within a minute or two of testing. None of these lines were erased or changed in any way.


I used the Kinzu V2 Pro Black for 7-8 days and never triggered this bug.



This is 400 DPI/500 Hz.


----------



## ARIKOmagic

kaingosu, how do you like the kinzu v2 overall?


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sixxxxxx*
> 
> Other than the jump bug the tracking speeds are quite good on the Kana though, right? Also, hows the build quality on the Kana?
> Lastly, this is kind of off topic but was the perfect control speed on the Sensei better than the Xai's (on cloth and hard pads), or was it pretty much the same? I know you and Skylit mentioned that the malfunction speed on cloth is much higher on the Sensei, but what about the perfect control speed? I've been torn between buying the Kana/Sensei/Zowie AM and can't make up my mind. Trying to decide right now.


A clean sensei will perform up to specifications and beyond on multiple pads. (150+ IPS) I do think it cost a lot for what it is though.

I should make a list of high performance budget mice.


----------



## n6378056

I don't think your doing it right, if you line it up against something flat and only move the mouse up and down quickly you'll trigger the bug. The only thing ruining the mico IMO.

If you spam drag boxes over workers in SC2 you'll notice it almost right away.


----------



## iBzzz

Is it possible it's just a mousemat problem causing the jumping? I've seen posts on other sites where the sensor struggles with used/dirty cloth pads yet is fine on clean/hard pads. Wasn't sure if that had been tested also with the "jump" bug?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> I used the Kinzu V2 Pro Black for 7-8 days and never triggered this bug.
> 
> This is 400 DPI/500 Hz.


n6378056 is correct, if you move the mouse up and down or side to side in the same general area then it will trigger. I can do what you did as well without the bug triggering. It doesn't need to be done quickly either, these lines were drawn at a pretty slow speed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iBzzz*
> 
> Is it possible it's just a mousemat problem causing the jumping? I've seen posts on other sites where the sensor struggles with used/dirty cloth pads yet is fine on clean/hard pads. Wasn't sure if that had been tested also with the "jump" bug?


I went through this with Steelseries who asked this of me as well. I tested all CPI steps (Even the fake ones) all polling rates and on all of my pads, hard and soft. I even used it on different PC's to rule out anything weird. The reason I used my black Hien for the speed test is because it's basically brand new.

Talent (used but in good condition)
Goliathus (used)
Qck (used but in good condition)
Black Hien (new)
4HD (Used but tested on a fresh area of the pad)
CM storm AK cloth pad (old but in good condition because I never use it)

All of the pads were cleaned and the bug is present on all of them. I even use an air puffer on each mouse's lens which is meant for blowing out camera lenses before and during each test. I cannot reproduce this problem on the same pads with any other sensor and I think over the last few years I have actually used almost all of the different sensors out there.

This is a Pixart bug that I warned Steelseries about back on 8/29 before I was ever involved with the testing. The first batch had the bug, I reported it. The second batch had the bug, I reported it. Steelseries claimed to have fixed the problem and sent me the retail mice but they still have the bug.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *n6378056*
> 
> I don't think your doing it right, if you line it up against something flat and only move the mouse up and down quickly you'll trigger the bug. The only thing ruining the mico IMO.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> n6378056 is correct, if you move the mouse up and down or side to side in the same general area then it will trigger. I can do what you did as well without the bug triggering. It doesn't need to be done quickly either, these lines were drawn at a pretty slow speed.



This is up and down. However i draw the lines pretty fast so that may be the problem. Unfortunately i don't have the mouse anymore to test it again. But if this is the case i don't see it as a major flaw. I browsed the internet and played cs 1.6 for a week and the bug didn't trigger.

Is it just me or Kimrom ignored every single complaint and advice? The Kana is still using TTC and plastic skates, the bugs are still there and what annoyed me the most, even the Kinzu V2 Pro Edition skates are crap. I won't even go into details about the Pixart "feeling" and accuracy.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARIKOmagic*
> 
> kaingosu, how do you like the kinzu v2 overall?


Sold it! The shape is perfect though. The way i see it gamers with high sens used the Kinzu V1 just fine. The problem was the low malfunction speed that made the mouse unusable for low-mid sens users. Nothing changed.


----------



## Sriracha

Would the kinzu v2 have reasonable enough tracking for me if I'm planning to use it at nothing lower than 900 DPI?


----------



## Sencha

Steelseries just updated their website
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Steelseries*
> The SteelSeries Kinzu v2 was built with a hardware level Pixart jump bug which is preferred by some of the top gamers in the world. Although the jump bug has been coined as a villain in some gaming circles, it is slowly but surely becoming a valued feature for certain top gamers whom can utilize its benefits to the fullest.


trollface.jpg


----------



## end0rphine

what the.................

That's actually a slap to the groin.

Dare I say an arrow to the knee.


----------



## Sencha

Sorry just messing around


----------



## copi

hi, my first post here but i simply couldnt read through all the 60 pages, so here my question:
yesterday i got my kana (im in germany) and installed drivers ect.
i was coming from xai then sensei now kana because of the sensor.
i play at 1600 dpi, now i wonder if that is already interpolated cpi?
the software shows "dcpi" (which is nothing else but interpolation, right?) from the middle between 800 and 1600cpi already,
so does that mean everything above 800 cpi is already interpolated? im confused...


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sriracha*
> 
> Would the kinzu v2 have reasonable enough tracking for me if I'm planning to use it at nothing lower than 900 DPI?


DPI is irrelevant. If you use 800 DPI with Kinzu and 1 sens in-game, it's the same thing as using 400 DPI and 2 in-game.

http://www.funender.com/quake/mouse/index.html

Use this to calculate your real sensitivity (cm/360). If it's lower than 30-35 cm i think you will be ok. Make sure you're using 6/11 in windows, otherwise you'll have to increase/decrease the "windows sensitivity multiplier".


----------



## illwill

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> DPI is irrelevant. If you use 800 DPI with Kinzu and 1 sens in-game, it's the same thing as using 400 DPI and 2 in-game.
> http://www.funender.com/quake/mouse/index.html
> Use this to calculate your real sensitivity (cm/360). If it's lower than 30-35 cm i think you will be ok. Make sure you're using 6/11 in windows, otherwise you'll have to increase/decrease the "windows sensitivity multiplier".


Not true, even if you adjust for the same cm/360 it's not the same. Very different feeling


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *copi*
> 
> 
> the software shows "dcpi" (which is nothing else but interpolation, right?) from the middle between 800 and 1600cpi already,
> so does that mean everything above 800 cpi is already interpolated? im confused...


The Kana tracks terribly on 1600CPI. I still consider it only an 800 CPI mouse.


----------



## Skylit

Actually the 1600 step is technically "real". It's just the 3200 native step of the Pixart sensor has pretty bad tracking quality.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Actually the 1600 step is technically "real". It's just the 3200 native step of the Pixart sensor has pretty bad tracking quality.


You're right, thank you for correcting me. I really hope nobody would use it though.... I can get the Kana to track pixel to pixel if I try really hard and draw lines at higher speeds but it normally jumps pixels at lower and normal speeds. (Example is for others to see)


----------



## illwill

So I received my Kana today and don't want it. If anyone in the USA wants it pm me, $35 shipped PayPal. If nobody responds it's going on eBay. Only used it for a few minutes. It's the white version.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *illwill*
> 
> So I received my Kana today and don't want it. If anyone in the USA wants it pm me, $35 shipped PayPal. If nobody responds it's going on eBay. Only used it for a few minutes. It's the white version.


What don't u like about it?


----------



## illwill

Build quality feels cheap, mouse1 and mouse2 require too much force, the feet are absolute crap. Aiming in games seemed fine to me but I just don't like the mouse. I mainly purchased it out of curiosity.


----------



## bojinglebells

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> The Kana tracks terribly on 1600CPI. I still consider it only an 800 CPI mouse.


how is its performance at 800?

IMO 800/900 is just about the perfect DPI for me, which is why the Abyssus was so disappointing only having 450/1800/3500 for DPI options even though I've always loved that shape from Razer starting with the Salmosa.

I've been using a Xai for a long time now despite its sensor flaws because I think its shape is so very near perfect for my grip. The Kinzu feels awesome as well but the sensor and feet were terribly garbage the overall mouse was a waste even though I got it for like $16 on some crazy Newegg sale.


----------



## brainslayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kimrom*
> 
> We have upgraded the feet and switches in Kana, also based on feedback from this forum.


So Kana has Omron switches now, or what does that mean?


----------



## hza

They didn't upgrade anything afaik.


----------



## brainslayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> They didn't upgrade anything afaik.


http://steelseries.com/products/mice/steelseries-kana says that at least Teflon Glides are used under the Kana ...
Quote:


> MOUSE GLIDES
> Material: Gaming grade UPE teflon covers 16 % of mouse bottom to ensure maximum glide.


I just ordered one frome caseking.de now. I will see









Got no experience with TTC switches so far. I like Omron. I don't like Huano (AM's are too hard).


----------



## Skar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pontiuz*
> 
> http://steelseries.com/products/mice/steelseries-kana says that at least Teflon Glides are used under the Kana ...
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> MOUSE GLIDES
> Material: Gaming grade UPE teflon covers 16 % of mouse bottom to ensure maximum glide.
Click to expand...

The problem with this statement is that UPE is as far as i know not Teflon.


----------



## brainslayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skar*
> 
> The problem with this statement is that UPE is as far as i know not Teflon.


This would be fraud.
If my Kana has this crappy plastic feet, I will claim refund immediately.


----------



## hza

As I said, they did nothing.


----------



## brainslayer

Maybe the strategy is to bring out a Kana Pro Edition with Omron switches and real teflon feet to make the enthusiast people pay twice. **** that.


----------



## Jayk3

Just got my Kana, my only gripes so far is that mouse1 requires a bit too much force, though mouse2 feels fine, though I'm sure it's something ill get used to and will probably ease up over time. The default mouse feet were pretty crap, but I've swapped them with some corepad skatez.

The tracking feels pretty good coming from a Xai, the vertical skipping bug is still there, but I have to be purposefully trying pretty hard to get it to occur, and even then it doesn't happen often. As I'm mainly a cs player this I don't imagine this will ever be a problem.

Overall the build quality is nice, feels nice to hold, the side buttons are very nice imo, and it looks quite good.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bojinglebells*
> 
> how is its performance at 800?
> IMO 800/900 is just about the perfect DPI for me, which is why the Abyssus was so disappointing only having 450/1800/3500 for DPI options even though I've always loved that shape from Razer starting with the Salmosa.
> I've been using a Xai for a long time now despite its sensor flaws because I think its shape is so very near perfect for my grip. The Kinzu feels awesome as well but the sensor and feet were terribly garbage the overall mouse was a waste even though I got it for like $16 on some crazy Newegg sale.


I posted a paint image that shows the tracking at 800CPI and my post before that shows the perfect control speed that Enotus claims. If the pixel jumping bug wasn't there then it wouldn't be a bad sensor in my opinion.

EDIT: Ill post them in this post too, asking someone to dig through a thread can be annoying







.





Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pontiuz*
> 
> This would be fraud.
> If my Kana has this crappy plastic feet, I will claim refund immediately.


Yeah it kinda left me disappointed.

They claimed to have fixed the pixel jumping bug. They didn't

They claimed to have upgraded the Kana's feet. They didn't

They claimed to have upgraded the Kana's switches. They didn't.


----------



## R3aCt0r M|Nd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> The Kana tracks terribly on 1600CPI. I still consider it only an 800 CPI mouse.


This is great news! I was worrying it would track terribly at 800 CPI.

Now to find a reliable site which sells it for the UK.


----------



## Jayk3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *R3aCt0r M|Nd*
> 
> This is great news! I was worrying it would track terribly at 800 CPI.
> Now to find a reliable site which sells it for the UK.


I got mine from http://www.systo.co.uk/kana-62030.html

I would also highly recommend getting some kinzu corepad skates to put on.


----------



## nlmiller0015

Does The SS Kana Track Better than SS Diablo and does it have a good MS. IM current using 400/800 dpi on my SS Diablo mouse on the Navi Edition Qck


----------



## Oranjoose

I'm in the US and I got my retail Kana (Black version).
I won't go into too much detail now, because I plan to do a youtube video of it shortly, but just to get a couple things out there, the
switches are unbelievably loud, I mean, at least twice as loud as the Xai's or Kinzu's I've got.
On a better note, perhaps I'm not doing it right, but I haven't been able to replicate the pixart sensor bug that we've been talking about so
much on this thread.

I've done seven more canvases like this without problem.
The skates are odd. They're better than my old Kinzus' (plural possessive) on QcK but not as good as my Xais'
Weird.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oranjoose*
> 
> I'm in the US and I got my retail Kana (Black version).
> I won't go into too much detail now, because I plan to do a youtube video of it shortly, but just to get a couple things out there, the
> switches are unbelievably loud, I mean, at least twice as loud as the Xai's or Kinzu's I've got.
> On a better note, perhaps I'm not doing it right, but I haven't been able to replicate the pixart sensor bug that we've been talking about so
> much on this thread.
> 
> I've done seven more canvases like this without problem.
> The skates are odd. They're better than my old Kinzus' (plural possessive) on QcK but not as good as my Xais'
> Weird.


Do you like it?

And where did you get it from in the US?


----------



## 337drew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oranjoose*
> 
> On a better note, perhaps I'm not doing it right, but I haven't been able to replicate the pixart sensor bug that we've been talking about so
> much on this thread.


Try doing vertices lines over the same area several times. Also use the pencil tool so it shows more detail.

Thanks!


----------



## Honzik1

Hello, I have XAI (MOH) right now. Sometimes I have the problem with the double-clicks on just one click. Should I buy new Kana? Or can you recommend me any other? (Kinzu v2?) I like the shape and weight of the mouse, because with light mouse I can move very fast in FPS games. I am using Razer Destructor mousepad. Thanks for the tips!


----------



## jung1e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honzik1*
> 
> Hello, I have XAI (MOH) right now. Sometimes I have the problem with the double-clicks on just one click. Should I buy new Kana? Or can you recommend me any other? (Kinzu v2?) I like the shape and weight of the mouse, because with light mouse I can move very fast in FPS games. I am using Razer Destructor mousepad. Thanks for the tips!


Look into the ZOWIE AM. great alternative to the Xai/Kana so it seems


----------



## theo87

Beware of the shape of Zowie AM, if you are used to Xai, AM might be a problem for you.


----------



## volim

SIGH, why can't just ONE company make a mouse that has no stupid obvious flaws.

The Xai is wonderful but the Acceleration and Letdown of a Macro software is an obvious flaw

The Zowie AM seems to be great on tracking but the two switches get stuck when held down together? and you the DPI above 450 is kinda awkward

The Kana, Shotty mousefeet, switches and supposedly nothing was upgraded?

Really need a claw mouse that tracks great and has at least one side button, but ffs its always too much to ask.


----------



## end0rphine

If you're dead-set on the AM then you really don't have anything to worry about...

Buttons will be fixed and the DPI = ~480


----------



## Oranjoose

Well shoot.
Updated results:



I played for several hours last night and noticed it a few times but it never threw off my game. I feel like being able to handle the mouse
comfortably is more important than an uncommon stray mouse glitch.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oranjoose*
> 
> Well shoot.
> Updated results:
> 
> I played for several hours last night and noticed it a few times but it never threw off my game. I feel like being able to handle the mouse
> comfortably is more important than an uncommon stray mouse glitch.


My image shows it going off much faster than yours, sometimes it takes longer. During regular game play (Tf2 in this example) it goes off about twice in 1 hour so its pretty rare but I find it hard to believe it doesn't throw off your game, a jump of 20-30 pixels is not a small jump and is absolutely unacceptable in my book.


----------



## Oranjoose

@derp
I meant it doesn't throw off my game as a whole. Sure, when it happens it's a bit disorienting, and can easily disrupt gameplay for that moment


----------



## exactrevenge

Man this is def a turn off for this mouse. Just sad.


----------



## 337drew

From what I've observed Steelseries is better at marketing and creating hype than it is about making quality hardware.


----------



## innov

Why didn't they use same sensor as in Zowie AM? That's not patented for only 1 company like DeathAdder's sensor, right?


----------



## theo87

If SS would put Avago ADNS 3090 with proper lens to their new mouse, make a good quality product similar to xai it would be last mouse people ever bought. It's shooting in the feet for company.


----------



## copi

well i sold mine already after 2 days of testing and having added custom teflon feet,
i still got the originals here for anyone stating these are teflon: they arent!









coming from the sensei this mouse is not quite the right one for me,
a litte too small and feels far less highclass.

it is in fact 30 grams lighter than the sensei, which i liked, the sensor was ok
but not noticable better than the senseis.

all in all it was simply too small for my hands and the feet are a joke.


----------



## bowflex

sorry for off-topic but answer please this thread)
http://www.overclock.net/t/1196688/thermaltake-azureus#post_16136895


----------



## R3aCt0r M|Nd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jayk3*
> 
> I got mine from http://www.systo.co.uk/kana-62030.html
> I would also highly recommend getting some kinzu corepad skates to put on.


Cheers pal, will look into getting sum pads aswel.
What was the delivery like ?


----------



## Oranjoose

Here's that video I said I'd make:


----------



## HaiiYaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oranjoose*
> 
> Here's that video I said I'd make:


A great review! If only you could test the sensor more thoroughly then it would be even better


----------



## Vikhr

That was well done, I really hope that SS can fix the jump bug in the future.


----------



## iBzzz

Nice vid. I suspect they won't fix the bug tho :/


----------



## 337drew

With enough complains and negative reports I'm sure SS will either address it via firmware (if it can be done) or come out with a updated version v2/v3. loler

Either that, or they'll list it in their FAQ and sell it as a feature..


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iBzzz*
> 
> Nice vid. I suspect they won't fix the bug tho :/


I honestly don't expect them to fix it. As I have already mentioned, I warned SS about this jump bug back on 8/29 before I was sent anything. The first batch of beta mice had the bug still, it got reported. The second batch had the bug, it got reported. This isn't something that they weren't aware of. They told me that they were confident that they got rid of the bug on the retail mice but its definitely still there.

Just like the positive acceleration is something all A9500 laser mice share, I think this jump bug is something all Pixart mice will share. (My Mico has the same jump bug)


----------



## sixxxxxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oranjoose*
> 
> Here's that video I said I'd make:


Awesome video, please continue to do these.


----------



## jfuze

Is there a reason why these small SteelSeries mice do not have 2 proper side buttons?

The smaller size is way better than my uncomfortable Sensei but no side buttons is a deal breaker.


----------



## end0rphine

Save costs. Honestly I wonder what the margins are on these mice considering they cut costs on alota things.


----------



## belowthelights

I'm a noob when it comes to gaming mice and I'm in the market for an upgrade. I currently use an mx518 at 1600 dpi with finger tip grip and play mostly rts, would the Kana be a good fit for me? If not, can anyone recommend a good mouse.


----------



## end0rphine

Kana @ 1600 DPI sucks unless you wanna lower it to 800 and raise in game sensitivity.


----------



## belowthelights

Is it possible to set the zowie am to 1600 dpi (or cpi, w/e)


----------



## Vikhr

It has 450, 1150, and 2300dpi


----------



## Honzik1

Can you please show me screenshot from drivers of Kana? Thank you!


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honzik1*
> 
> Can you please show me screenshot from drivers of Kana? Thank you!






With an added bonus of the hilarious memory usage.


----------



## end0rphine

*** why is the memory usage so high lol.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> *** why is the memory usage so high lol.


A feature of the SS engine. I just opened it too, didn't even configure anything.

Someone from ESR has the same complaint with it. "EDIT: SteelseriesEngine.exe is taking up 130MB of RAM and is making my system act funny. Awesome."


----------



## Stompy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Save costs. Honestly I wonder what the margins are on these mice considering they cut costs on alota things.


The new Steelseries mice are ridiculously overpriced when compared to other companies. Look at what build quality and components you get from stuffl like the G400/MX518, CM Storm and Thermaltake mice.
While i really like the shape, the price/quality ratio is just as bad as razer and not really acceptable.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stompy*
> 
> While i really like the shape, the price/quality ratio is just as bad as razer and not really acceptable.


razer uses omron switches and teflon mousefeet tho, and the S3886 sensor shouldn't be the cheapest available either.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stompy*
> 
> The new Steelseries mice are ridiculously overpriced when compared to other companies. Look at what build quality and components you get from stuffl like the G400/MX518, CM Storm and Thermaltake mice.
> While i really like the shape, the price/quality ratio is just as bad as razer and not really acceptable.


Would you believe me if I stated that certain internals of the Logitech G400 could be considered worse or "cheaper" than the Deathadder 3.5G? Both companies find ways to cut corners. Logitech just doesn't want you to see where









*Both mice are equally great


----------



## innov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Would you believe me if I stated that certain internals of the Logitech G400 could be considered worse or "cheaper" than the Deathadder 3.5G? Both companies find ways to cut corners. Logitech just doesn't want you to see where
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Both mice are equally great


I suppose he meant the build quality relative to the price, G400 costs 15€ less than DA 3.5G so what you said is hardly surprising.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *innov*
> 
> I suppose he meant the build quality relative to the price, G400 costs 15€ less than DA 3.5G so what you said is hardly surprising.


Yep. G400 has price/performance/warranty locked down.

Wish they offered more shapes.


----------



## mrwalker

Does the Kana save settings to onboard memory and when will it be available for purchase in the US? Is the Kana as accurate as the Xai at 400dpi 1000hz?


----------



## 337drew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Yep. G400 has price/performance/warranty locked down.
> Wish they offered more shapes.


Agreed. The G400 is a solid mouse. I wish Logitech still had a small, ambidextrous, 1:1 mouse with a good sensor that I didn't have to purchase off ebay from a Korea seller.


----------



## piskooooo

This sucks, I was really excited about the White/Black Kana but it seems like such a downgrade from the Xai/Sensei. Someone should make a Kana-adder, I'd buy it


----------



## Stompy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Would you believe me if I stated that certain internals of the Logitech G400 could be considered worse or "cheaper" than the Deathadder 3.5G? Both companies find ways to cut corners. Logitech just doesn't want you to see where
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Both mice are equally great


Don't worry, i believe you.







As innov has pointed out i was talking about mice that show what is possible in terms of quality at much lower price points.
Razer uses good/decent components, its just their QA which does not fit with their price policy.
Steelseries on the other hand seems to have no problems with actual manufacturing quality, they just cut corners with component choice.


----------



## Gunkers

*EDIT REMOVED BY POSTER


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gunkers*
> 
> *Hi,*
> 
> *1.* Remove all mouse acceleration. Even though I've been used to it, it's still very finnicky. In clutch moments, my micro is off because I've extended my courser 2 pixels to far. The mouse acceleration bugs me out when playing FPSes. Due to the original configuration of the default drivers, I found my mouse pixel skipping and found it almost unplayable at times.


There shouldn't be any accel in the kinzu v2..?

Unless you're talking about the first version.


----------



## mrwalker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oranjoose*
> 
> Here's that video I said I'd make:


If the Kana was only a bit wider like the Xai and had no sensor problems like the pixel skipping bug then I'd grab it in a heartbeat (once it was available in the US that is).

That was a great review, btw.


----------



## belowthelights

You can buy it online from a number of different stores^^. I unfortunately took the plunge already before I knew that 1600 dpi sucked. Should come in tomorrow.

What I don't get is, if the deathadder has a near flawless sensor then why don't other mice use it? At the very least you would think someone would be able to create a similar sensor by now.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *belowthelights*
> 
> You can buy it online from a number of different stores^^. I unfortunately took the plunge already before I knew that 1600 dpi sucked. Should come in tomorrow.
> 
> *
> What I don't get is, if the deathadder has a near flawless sensor then why don't other mice use it? At the very least you would think someone would be able to create a similar sensor by now.*


It's a matter of sensor firmware. A lot of mice have similar IC's.


----------



## 337drew

Nice sensor.



Yep. Their software eats up memory.



I can confirm that you can definitely feel this in game. You don't even have to move the mouse up and down on the same area. It just has to be a vertical movement to feel it. I'd say expect your mouse to have a nice jump on about 1-5% of your up/down movements.

As a competitive gamer, I don't know how anyone could really get used to the jump bug. In game, it feels like someone has taken control of your mouse for a split second. The first time it happened I looked down to see if the cable was caught on something. For me, it's VERY noticeable.

It's too bad too. The mouse feels really solid. I'm not sure why people said they were flimsy. The only thing wrong that I can identify with the build quality is the wheel's light shines through the top plastic shell. It doesn't just shine through the seam, it shines right through the top shell. I'm certain that's why they covered up the sensor's LED with black tape. This thing would be glowing all sorts of pink, red, and white.



The mouse feet are fine. The edges aren't sharper than any other new mouse out there. They absolutely do not feel like a "hard" plastic. I honestly don't know if they are Teflon, I have nothing to compare them to by my trusty Logitech G3. If I had to describe how the feet feel, I'd say they feel like those flexible magnetic strip material. Again, they do not feel like hard plastic as other people have stated.

Honestly, I'll keep the mouse if there is any chance Steelseries will address this jump bug. I'm appalled that their QA dept could allow this to slip by.

Kimrom did his job as a PR guy to hype this product. I'm the sucker who bought this mouse thinking the bug wouldn't be that bad. Well, it is... Let's see if their coders can do something about this.

Steelseries - You have 14 days before I return this thing.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *337drew*
> 
> The mouse feet are fine. The edges aren't sharper than any other new mouse out there. They absolutely do not feel like a "hard" plastic. I honestly don't know if they are Teflon, I have nothing to compare them to by my trusty Logitech G3. If I had to describe how the feet feel, I'd say they feel like those flexible magnetic strip material. Again, they do not feel like hard plastic as other people have stated.


All gaming mice in the Kana's price bracket have teflon feet that glide well on all surfaces. The Kana's plastic feet have an extremely slow glide on cloth pads. My $10 WMO's stock feet have a better glide than the Kana's. So you end up adding $7 or so to the price of the Kana because you have to go out and buy your own Teflon feet.


----------



## fasti

Is the jump bug ~same for every cpi setting?

Using my xai at 400, might change after I upgrade 16:10->16:9.


----------



## R3aCt0r M|Nd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fasti*
> 
> Is the jump bug ~same for every cpi setting?
> 
> Using my xai at 400, might change after I upgrade 16:10->16:9.


I am wondering the same, and now wondering wether to buy this Kana at all...
If possible could someone bring me upto speed on the situation with both the Kana and Kinzu V2.
They both are now riddled with issues? I was under the impression that the kana malfunctioned/pixel jump bug etc at 1600cpi but was fine at 800cpi ?
And the deal with the Kinzu V2?

I've been waiting to replace this ageing copperhead for a while, I use 800dpi currently and was planning on getting the Kana very soon.
Any advice on the 2 mice chaps?

Cheers

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


----------



## bojinglebells

yeah, this is very disappointing

on the one hand Steelseries is working with some of the best mouse shapes possible for competitive finger/claw grips, on the other their quality is leaving far too much to be desired.

where's our retail "KinzuAdder"? Why can't Steelseries and/or Razer step up and finally deliver a true homerun of a product?


----------



## belowthelights

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bojinglebells*
> 
> yeah, this is very disappointing
> on the one hand Steelseries is working with some of the best mouse shapes possible for competitive finger/claw grips, on the other their quality is leaving far too much to be desired.
> where's our retail "KinzuAdder"? Why can't Steelseries and/or Razer step up and finally deliver a true homerun of a product?


It seems they just don't want to make a lot of money? You know a problem has gotten silly when people are buying your product and then replacing the sensor with your rival's product (kinzuadder, etc etc).


----------



## Zhuni

The usual hardware heaven review

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1375/pg1/steelseries-kinzu-v2-pro-edition-gaming-mouse-review-introduction.html


----------



## 337drew

Update.

My PC has been running the Steelseries engine for roughly 13 hours. I just attempted to open it via task bar notifications area link and it crashed. I'm running the most current Steelseries engine dated 12/9 (2.1.744.36699), firmware 257.

Solid product. Definitely ready for public release.


----------



## piskooooo

SS engine was even worse when it came out for the Sensei lol


----------



## belowthelights

Whelp, not that I truly believed my Kana would somehow be different from everyone elses, but the tracking does indeed feel very sloppy at 1600dpi (especially compared to 800) and the pixel jump bug is most definitely there.....on all dpi settings. Giving it about a week and mine is going back to the store for a refund.


----------



## nlmiller0015

I though Kinzu/Kana didnt skip at 400/800 dpi. If this is true im shipping both back when they come and just keep the zowie am I ordered


----------



## 337drew

It jumps at all DPIs. I wouldn't say it skips. It obnoxiously takes control of your mouse and moves your reticle/cursor w/out you wanting it to.

In related news, I've been scriming in BF3 this afternoon on the Kana and I definitely experienced the bug. It didn't get me killed, but the fact that it does something other than what you tell it to do is infuriating.


----------



## Riou

Is SteelSeries spending too much money on marketing instead of the actual product?


----------



## Vikhr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zhuni*
> 
> The usual hardware heaven review
> http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1375/pg1/steelseries-kinzu-v2-pro-edition-gaming-mouse-review-introduction.html


I wouldn't even call that a review.


----------



## 161029

I'm late to the party. Just checked and didn't notice these three were released a bit ago. Really want to know if I can make a Kana-adder or Kinzuadder v2.


----------



## belowthelights

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> I'm late to the party. Just checked and didn't notice these three were released a bit ago. Really want to know if I can make a Kana-adder or Kinzuadder v2.


I would love to know this as well. At this point I'd be willing to spend a good amount of money to make a kana-adder. Also, not to derail this topic, but does anyone know anything about Thermal Take Saphira?

http://www.ttesports.com/products/product.aspx?s=25

Looks promising, but then again so did the Kana.


----------



## Sriracha

All I'm waiting for now is an Avago equipped IME 3.0 shaped successor to the Ikari Optical. In my dreams, right...?


----------



## Skylit

^ EC1/Deathadder?


----------



## smoker91

nice ... i am going to buy kinzu pro v2 ?? wht u think ??


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Riou*
> 
> Is SteelSeries spending too much money on marketing instead of the actual product?


About that.. Just the fact that Kimrom is a marketing rep, it should have been a ss engineer coming here on OCN.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARIKOmagic*
> 
> About that.. Just the fact that Kimrom is a marketing rep, it should have been a ss engineer coming here on OCN.


Not necessarily. He can still send our "messages" to his co-workers. The Pixart sensor, the plastic skates and the TTC switches are all marketing decisions. I'm sure their engineers are perfectly capable of adding the A3090 in Kana (if Zowie did it why not SS?). The way i see it the Pixart sensor is cheaper than A3090, plastic is cheaper than teflon and TTCs are cheaper than Omrons.
That being said, my Kana is a pretty good mouse. The malfunction speed is much higher than Kinzu V2, TTCs feel better than the HUANO switches in my AM and i'm having a hard time triggering that skipping bug. Couldn't trigger it on my Kinzu V2 and now i never had a problem with it on Kana (not in-game or Paint). If it doesn't trigger under normal gaming conditions, i don't care if it exists right? Maybe is something you guys did or i don't know. I installed the Steelseries Engine, set my DPI1 400 DPI2 400, uninstalled SS Engine and i am now using the HID-compliant mouse driver in Win XP.



There you go. No jumping bug.


----------



## krameriffic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> Not necessarily. He can still send our "messages" to his co-workers. The Pixart sensor, the plastic skates and the TTC switches are all marketing decisions. I'm sure their engineers are perfectly capable of adding the A3090 in Kana (if Zowie did it why not SS?). The way i see it the Pixart sensor is cheaper than A3090, plastic is cheaper than teflon and TTCs are cheaper than Omrons.
> That being said, my Kana is a pretty good mouse. The malfunction speed is much higher than Kinzu V2, TTCs feel better than the HUANO switches in my AM and i'm having a hard time triggering that skipping bug. Couldn't trigger it on my Kinzu V2 and now i never had a problem with it on Kana (not in-game or Paint). If it doesn't trigger under normal gaming conditions, i don't care if it exists right? Maybe is something you guys did or i don't know. I installed the Steelseries Engine, set my DPI1 400 DPI2 400, uninstalled SS Engine and i am now using the HID-compliant mouse driver in Win XP.
> 
> There you go. No jumping bug.


I either never had it happen on my Mico or simply never noticed it because I used that mouse for months and months and didn't know it had an issue until I read Derp's review of it. It seems like one of those curious non-issues about the sensor to me.

That said, I am completely baffled as to why a Google product search turns up these mice on 35+ websites available to buy but they aren't on Amazon yet. I want to use my Prime subscription and have a liberal return policy if I don't like the mouse dammit.


----------



## 337drew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> Couldn't trigger it on my Kinzu V2 and now i never had a problem with it on Kana (not in-game or Paint). If it doesn't trigger under normal gaming conditions, i don't care if it exists right? Maybe is something you guys did or i don't know. I installed the Steelseries Engine, set my DPI1 400 DPI2 400, uninstalled SS Engine and i am now using the HID-compliant mouse driver in Win XP.
> 
> There you go. No jumping bug.


You had my hopes up, but it most certainly didn't work.

My Kana, which I purchased off Amazon still skips at 400DPI (set on both profiles) and polling rate 500hz. Tested in paint. Uninstalled the driver, rebooted, etc...

I felt it once in game - BF3 4v4 scrim, kharg island, shooting down mav. Felt it w/out a doubt, the same as I feel it in paint.


----------



## 337drew




----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *337drew*


Windows XP?
What mousepad do you have? I use a Corepad C1 and replaced the skates with Steelseries Glide Kinzu.


----------



## 337drew

Sorry. Windows7 x64 Ult


----------



## kaingosu

Anybody else triggering the bug on Win XP?


----------



## 337drew

Tested on my wife's Windows XP box. Didn't even install the driver. Same issue. I don't think DPI, polling rate, OS or driver has anything to do with it.

Edit: meant to type Windows XP not 7


----------



## 337drew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> What mousepad do you have? I use a Corepad C1 and replaced the skates with Steelseries Glide Kinzu.


Qck Heavy and a Raindrop XL

I'll test with a hard pad in a little bit. And let you know if that changes things.


----------



## 337drew

Tested on a Func Surface1030 pad, a blue Everglide, and plain white desk surface.

They all experience the jump bug. Happens roughly 1-5% of the time on vertical movements of the mouse.


----------



## brainslayer

Got my Kana just out of the box. I'm doing this on a qck:


As on old 1.1 fanatic the shape is perfect for me. I'm really lovin it. The 1.1 like sidebuttons are also perfect for me.
Therefore it is such a shame steelseries ruining this thing completely.

TTC switches giving you a low quality feeling. Too hard, kinda annoying. Mr. Horse would say: "No Sir, I don't like it".
Skates are a joke. This is pure impudence towards the customer.
Furthermore the real heavy jumping bug makes the kana to a full faulty product wich has to be recalled for full refund to every customer.
I'm feeling like I was cheated by steel. This was defenetly my last steelsereis product. I'm gonna burn my qck right now









Cheers


----------



## hza

And I wanted to buy a Kana half a year ago. Sorry, but build quality seems not to compete with my G500 (or the Xai I had over a Year). Besides that I wouldn't want to give jumping bug a chance to annoy me. I hope next time SteelSeries doesn't try to become even more RazerSeries.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *337drew*
> 
> They all experience the jump bug. Happens roughly 1-5% of the time on vertical movements of the mouse.




This is on a Roccat Taito mousepad. Still no sign of the bug. I had the exact experience with Kinzu V2 Pro Black, so it must be something with my setup. I don't think it can be the hardware, which leaves us to OS.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pontiuz*
> 
> Got my Kana just out of the box. I'm doing this on a qck:


That looks terrible. OS?


----------



## moblin

Have people bought the kinzu v2 already? not just prototype model?


----------



## 337drew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> Still no sign of the bug. I had the exact experience with Kinzu V2 Pro Black, so it must be something with my setup. I don't think it can be the hardware, which leaves us to OS.
> That looks terrible. OS?


Wow I can't believe you haven't triggered it. I'm stumped. What firmware is your Kana?

Driver: 2.1.774.36699
Firmware: 257


----------



## kaingosu

I remember the SS Engine said firmware 257. Can't remember the driver. It was updating when i installed the software, so it must be the lastest driver.


----------



## sixxxxxx

What switches did the Kinzu v1 use?

I keep seeing posts saying the Kana switches are hard to press and obviously they use TTC. I was under the impression the Kinzu v1 used TTC as well, but my Kinzu v1 mouse buttons were so laughably easy to press it was just a joke. The switches felt like absolute trash on the Kinzu v1 (for me) and the amount of force required to activate the switches differed massively between mouse 1 and mouse 2.


----------



## glenn37216

Apparently Kim hasn't seen this skpping issue yet in the Kana. Maybe just a bad batch went out to retail and no one caught on to it ?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glenn37216*
> 
> Apparently Kim hasn't seen this skpping issue yet in the Kana. Maybe just a bad batch went out to retail and no one caught on to it ?


He was informed about the bug before, during and after the testing.


----------



## Skylit

Even though it didn't bother me as much as Derp, the bug was present and reported during testing.

We all expected final samples, but that never happened.


----------



## krameriffic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moblin*
> 
> Have people bought the kinzu v2 already? not just prototype model?


If you Google product search you can find both in and the Kana on 30+ websites. Now, I'm not sure about the Kinzu V2 Pro.


----------



## 337drew

kaingosu has a black kana and it appears to not experience the bug. did you testers receive white kanas? i wonder if it's a coincidence.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *337drew*
> 
> kaingosu has a black kana and it appears to not experience the bug. did you testers receive white kanas? i wonder if it's a coincidence.


I have the:

White Kana (beta)
Black Kana (retail)
Silver Kinzu V2 Pro (retail)
Black Kinzu V2 Pro (beta)

All of them have the bug.


----------



## lisward

Quote:


> Thierry Deschain: Sorry to be a buzzkill, but we just cant help but doubt that you have had contact with "EVERYONE" who has purchased this mouse in Europe so far, and interviewed them about their experience with it. It's quite a task. Though, this might actually be possible if you host large gatherings around Europe for gamers who use the Kana. If that's the case, we'd love to get an invite.


Basically I commented on their Steelseries fanpage for people not to buy the Kana until they have fixed the pixel issue because from everyone I've seen in this thread and another forum complained about the jumping issue. Someone told me that only the Europeans have it now, but regardless I think it's disgusting how they went around the overclock talking about a no bull**** mouse, which I really wanted to buy, and probably will of they fix the sensor issue because it's the only mouse that met my needs with the shape and what not. Almost everyone I've seen complained about the feet and mouse switches as well. It's appalling how they refuse to acknowledge the issue.


----------



## end0rphine

Everyone should calm down. The jumping bug, feet and switches issues are fixed...

in the kana v2 hurdur


----------



## belowthelights

Don't forget the terrible tracking at any dpi above 800. This makes it unusable for rts players like myself


----------



## Honzik1

What do you think about GIGABYTE GM-M8000X? I found many good reviews (by users and servers). Good alternative for XAI?


----------



## murash

Hi guys i'm a noob here (just made my account). I have been following this thread since the first page and I wanted to give my contribution as well. so I got my SS Kana (black/orange) yesterday and I have been making this test with paint to trigger the jump bug. My mousepad is QcK+. I made the test with only two different settings because I use only 400 CPI and 500 HZ (specially while playing). Yes, it triggered couple of times but only with 800 CPI and 500 HZ settings. I have tested also with 400 CPI and 500 HZ but the jump bug hasn't occured. While playing CS 1.6 I haven't noticed yet never the jump bug. Overall, the mouse feels really good but the feet are not gliding so well as it was previously mentioned but it doesn't bother me because I consider myself as a low sensitivity gamer. I feel more and more comfortable with this mouse and I think that I will be using from now on this mouse rather than my Zowie Microsoft IO1.1 Blue which is also a great one. Btw the scroll feels good for my standards and bunny jumping works equally as good as with IO1.1.





Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit with the latest SteelSeries Engine updates.

...and sorry if my English sucks.


----------



## brainslayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> That looks terrible. OS?


Windows 7 64

I ask myself what the reasons are for those mistakes. Zowie AM with buttons rubbing on each other, Kana ... ah can't hear it anymore ^^
A fifteen dollar ten year old wmo is more reliable than a new pg mouse for about fifty euros. Think about that.

I think the problems occur when marketing and salesman try to build professional special hardware and intend to save as many costs as they can while selling as much pieces as possible.
To reach this aim you have to lower one's sights like assembling in cheap chinese factories a.s.o. The result is a low quality almost malfunctioning product.

Spend more money on quality inspection and materials - raising the price about ten dollars will maybe scare those mainstream customers, yes but there is even no mainstream product. It's all about professional gaming equipment - not a mouse for everyone and your grandma.


----------



## Skylit

Saw a retail Kinzu v2 Pro today.

-PCB and revision number match the beta version
-Retail version also has D2FC's on every switch including scroll and CPI toggle. (Kinda silly considering TTC are favored on the Kana due to "price point issues")

Nothing that I can see was changed from a hardware perspective

tl;dr uploaded firmware is identical.

~~~~

The jump bug dosen't only occur in these mice. It's more of a Pixart problem and I highly doubt it can be fixed simply by flashing firmware. Even if certain individuals don't experience it, there's a great chance it's still there.


----------



## MONVMENTVM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Saw a retail Kinzu v2 Pro today.
> 
> -PCB and revision number match the beta version
> -Retail version also has D2FC's on every switch including scroll and CPI toggle. (Kinda silly considering TTC are favored on the Kana due to "price point issues")
> 
> Nothing that I can see was changed from a hardware perspective
> 
> tl;dr uploaded firmware is identical.
> 
> ~~~~
> 
> The jump bug dosen't only occur in these mice. It's more of a Pixart problem and I highly doubt it can be fixed simply by flashing firmware. Even if certain individuals don't experience it, there's a great chance it's still there.


Cool... and does it still have that dual PCB layout? I'm asking because I got the Xai from SteelSeries before it was released for testing and while I hate its sensor I'm so accustomed to it's shape now that I can't use anything else than these WMO shapes now. That and I also have an old Deathadder 3G rev.2 somewhere lying around waiting to be put to (better) use.









From the kinzu v2 pics I've seen it also seems to be suited a little better for modding the DA into it, because the small PCB with the buttons seems a tad shorter than that of the old kinzu and it could be shortened even a little more, making more room for the DA PCB without cutting this one (that much).


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MONVMENTVM*
> 
> Cool... and does it still have that dual PCB layout? I'm asking because I got the Xai from SteelSeries before it was released for testing and while I hate its sensor I'm so accustomed to it's shape now that I can't use anything else than these WMO shapes now. That and I also have an old Deathadder 3G rev.2 somewhere lying around waiting to be put to (better) use.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From the kinzu v2 pics I've seen it also seems to be suited a little better for modding the DA into it, because the small PCB with the buttons seems a tad shorter than that of the old kinzu and it could be shortened even a little more, making more room for the DA PCB without cutting this one (that much).


Yeah, but the front PCB itself is diff than the one on the Kinzu v1 (wiring layout is new).

The Avago 2120-001 lens (20 pin Avago Optical) still fits too.


----------



## MONVMENTVM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Yeah, but the front PCB itself is diff than the one on the Kinzu v1 (wiring layout is new).
> The Avago 2120-001 lens (20 pin Avago Optical) still fits too.


You mean that it has these wires to connact to the main board instead of the 2-row connector or is the wiring of the components different? Anyway it shouldn't be a real problem right?

And great info btw. thanks


----------



## nlmiller0015

I just reliazed something on my kinzu v2 the lower the polling rate the more it jitters tested it on my cloth plad. im about to ship these back and go back to useing my corsair m60 or SS sensei


----------



## lisward

Wil Steelseries/Kimrom comment or fix the jump bug?


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> I just reliazed something on my kinzu v2 the lower the polling rate the more it jitters tested it on my cloth plad. im about to ship these back and go back to useing my corsair m60 or SS sensei


What's wrong with 1000hz?


----------



## Eluron

I've just received my black Kana, and not only the accuracy is pretty bad, but the jump bug is there.

No matter the configuration, although in some more than others:



It's a shame because I like its design, but not compensates its price and mainly its defects...


----------



## belowthelights

I opened a ticket with steelseries customer service and they mentioned nothing about fixing these issues and instead simply offered me a refund. Very disappointing but at least you can get your money back from this debacle. It's pretty mind boggling that they went ahead and released a "gaming mouse" that randomly shoots off into right field even after beta testers told them about it.


----------



## 337drew

Curious. Did you order your mouse from them directly? Wondering if they're going to provide the refund so I don't have to pay the 10% restocking fee with my vendor.

I also opened up a ticket. I included a description of how to reproduce the bug, my setup, how I've tried it on 4 different PCs with various OSes (both Win7 and XP), included several screen shots, and finally provided a link to this thread along with the other one on ESR.

I hope Kimrom comes back here to save his company's image. I expect something along the lines of "Sorry we screwed up and released a product that was sub par for the gaming community. We ignored reports from beta testers. We pushed the release of this mouse to make it in time to show at CES. This issue will be fixed in the 2nd batch. (or v2/v3 when we choose a proper sensor)." etc etc


----------



## lisward

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *337drew*
> 
> Curious. Did you order your mouse from them directly? Wondering if they're going to provide the refund so I don't have to pay the 10% restocking fee with my vendor.
> I also opened up a ticket. I included a description of how to reproduce the bug, my setup, how I've tried it on 4 different PCs with various OSes (both Win7 and XP), included several screen shots, and finally provided a link to this thread along with the other one on ESR.
> I hope Kimrom comes back here to save his company's image. I expect something along the lines of "Sorry we screwed up and released a product that was sub par for the gaming community. We ignored reports from beta testers. We pushed the release of this mouse to make it in time to show at CES. This issue will be fixed in the 2nd batch. (or v2/v3 when we choose a proper sensor)." etc etc


Guys just contact him on his twitter, it's pretty public.


----------



## glenn37216

-Sounds like to me he just doesnt give a ****.

Disappointing that he knowws about this thread but refuses to come here and acknowledge the problem at hand. ATLEAST then we could have some small hope that a fix or a new sensor could be added in Kana V2.


----------



## v4mp1

Quote:


> Disappointing that he knowws about this thread but refuses to come here and acknowledge the problem at hand. ATLEAST then we could have some small hope that a fix or a new sensor could be added in Kana V2. mad.gif


I bet he will reply with a new thread right when the Kana V2 will be ready.

Money money money.

Steelseries is crap.


----------



## 337drew




----------



## piskooooo

Just got my free Kana in the mail. The shape is perfect, weight is perfect, scroll wheel is perfect, side buttons are kinda weird but whatever. The feet are definitely plastic or something. Like someone said before there's actually spots on the mouse where the scroll wheel LED shines through and it makes it look terrible/cheap. The default back/forward browser macros didn't even work and SS engine is as bad as always so I just changed it to F5 and Backspace. I got the jump bug to activate after like 10 seconds in Paint so it's clearly not a "rumor" or people on here trying to make SS look bad. I'm still going to use the mouse until the bug messes me up because I think it's perfect outside of that. Probably shouldn't be a $50 mouse or whatever it is, the Deathadder and G400 are like $30-40 and don't have as many issues, they also have better drivers.


----------



## glenn37216

Anyone updated their Kana to the latest firmware yet?

This review was done on the 14th Jan..

......................."In addition to this we noted no pixel jumping on the latest firmware, something which was specifically tested for...."

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1380/pg1/steelseries-kana-mouse-review-introduction.html

I've heard from 2 people that are local to me and they have confirmed the latest firmware fixed their pixel jump bug. Has the latest firmware fixed anyone else's problems ? Might be some hope for the Kana after all . :}

*Fingers crossed


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glenn37216*
> 
> Anyone updated their Kana to the latest firmware yet?
> This review was done on the 14th Jan..
> ......................."In addition to this we noted no pixel jumping on the latest firmware, something which was specifically tested for...."
> http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviews/1380/pg1/steelseries-kana-mouse-review-introduction.html
> I've heard from 2 people that are local to me and they have confirmed the latest firmware fixed their pixel jump bug. Has the latest firmware fixed anyone else's problems ? Might be some hope for the Kana after all . :}
> *Fingers crossed


That review didn't mention the firmware version that they tested with. As far as I know at this time FW257 is the latest and the Kana has the jump bug with it.

Also, most reviews like that aren't really providing any information. Its advertisement, not testing. I found the same Pixart jump bug with my Zowie Mico even though all of the other reviews out there never mentioned anything about it. Before I got my retail Kana/Kinzu V2 pro people in this very thread were claiming that the bug was fixed but as I expected, it wasn't.


----------



## Skylit

"Turning the mouse over we find that there are three large, *low* friction UPE Teflon feet on the base."

Those feet look exactly like the ones I received. They're anything but low friction.

Edit: That review indicates that Steelseries is aware of the problem.


----------



## end0rphine

Want a trustable review? See skylit or derp's posts.

/end


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> "Turning the mouse over we find that there are three large, *low* friction UPE Teflon feet on the base."
> Those feet look exactly like the ones I received. They're anything but low friction.
> Edit: That review indicates that Steelseries is aware of the problem.


Whatever that UPE Teflon is(seems like there are materials other than PTFE also named Teflon), it is absolutly not what the majority of people expect from something called Teflon, and Steelseries must know that too.
So why should i buy something from a company with this obviously dishonest behaviour?


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Before I got my retail Kana/Kinzu V2 pro people in this very thread were claiming that the bug was fixed but as I expected, it wasn't.


I'm using Kana for a week now ... NO BUG. I previously owned the Kinzu V2 Pro Black and it was also bug free. Never noticed it in-game or in the 100 Paint tests i did. I mean i'm not stupid right? I know how to draw some lines and i posted most of the results here. There is no doubt these mice still have the bug, but it's funny how it doesn't trigger on my PC. Tried finding out the reason but only *337drew* was willing to help so i gave up. I've also noticed some trigger the bug more often than others. I've narrowed it down to OS, but without more reports from users i can't be sure.


----------



## belowthelights

I seriously doubt it's OS related but for what its worth I'm on windows 7 ultimate 64bit. If you indeed 100 percent don't get the jump bug then it's possible a lot of us just received mice from a bad batch. I really wish SS would comment on the issue.

If the jump bug didn't exist and the accuracy was better at 1600 dpi I would buy like 3 of these and never worry about gaming mice ever again lol. As of right now though it's useless :\


----------



## HaiiYaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> "Turning the mouse over we find that there are three large, *low* friction UPE Teflon feet on the base."
> Those feet look exactly like the ones I received. They're anything but low friction.
> Edit: That review indicates that Steelseries is aware of the problem.


Same like the old kinzu right







? They drag on clothpads but are very fast on hardpads


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> I'm using Kana for a week now ... NO BUG. I previously owned the Kinzu V2 Pro Black and it was also bug free. Never noticed it in-game or in the 100 Paint tests i did. I mean i'm not stupid right? I know how to draw some lines and i posted most of the results here. There is no doubt these mice still have the bug, but it's funny how it doesn't trigger on my PC. Tried finding out the reason but only *337drew* was willing to help so i gave up. I've also noticed some trigger the bug more often than others. I've narrowed it down to OS, but without more reports from users i can't be sure.


I have tested this on three different computers here and the bug still exists.

Windows XP 32bit (Pentium 4)
Windows Vista 64bit (Sig rig)
Windows Vista 32bit (core2duo)

Others have said that they experience the problem with windows 7 as well so I don't think this is an OS issue. No other mouse has this bug on any of these systems, just mice that use the Pixart sensor.


----------



## nlmiller0015

The people at SteelSeries who says theres no problem are Lying it so obvious. I cant really say I Hate SS cause I love there team edition mouse pads but there mice is trash, The only good mouse I seen them improve was the SS sensei


----------



## Honzik1

I switched from XAI to Gigabyte M8000X. Mouse quality feeling is much better and mouse at all is better and also drivers are much better. If you want small review, just say.


----------



## Jayk3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Before I got my retail Kana/Kinzu V2 pro people in this very thread were claiming that the bug was fixed but as I expected, it wasn't.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using Kana for a week now ... NO BUG. I previously owned the Kinzu V2 Pro Black and it was also bug free. Never noticed it in-game or in the 100 Paint tests i did. I mean i'm not stupid right? I know how to draw some lines and i posted most of the results here. There is no doubt these mice still have the bug, but it's funny how it doesn't trigger on my PC. Tried finding out the reason but only *337drew* was willing to help so i gave up. I've also noticed some trigger the bug more often than others. I've narrowed it down to OS, but without more reports from users i can't be sure.
Click to expand...

I was getting the jump bug when I first got the mouse, but I just tried to get it to happen and for some reason it seems to have fixed itself 



Not getting it at all now, I don't recall changing anything significant system-wise apart from messing around with the Steelseries engine.


----------



## copi

i gave up on the kana and got back to my sensei. didnt regret that step so far,
but if anyone is up with plans for a sensei/xaiadder, im willing to provide the hardware
and a proper payment as im double left-thumbed when it comes to fine mechanics









its just that im so courious wether the DA respawn sensor will raise my level but
im addicted to the ss shape...


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I have tested this on three different computers here and the bug still exists.
> 
> Windows XP 32bit (Pentium 4)
> Windows Vista 64bit (Sig rig)
> Windows Vista 32bit (core2duo)
> 
> Others have said that they experience the problem with windows 7 as well so I don't think this is an OS issue. No other mouse has this bug on any of these systems, just mice that use the Pixart sensor.


That's good to know, thanks!



This is 400dpi/500hz on a Mionix Propus. I think we can rule out OS, mousepad, drivers/firmware.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> The people at SteelSeries who says theres no problem are Lying it so obvious. I cant really say I Hate SS cause I love there team edition mouse pads but there mice is trash, The only good mouse I seen them improve was the SS sensei


They are lying about skates, switches and now this bug. Nothing surprises me anymore.


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> They are lying about skates, switches and now this bug. Nothing surprises me anymore.


How are they lying about the switches? Wasn't it always clear that only the kinzu v2 pro would have omron switches?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARIKOmagic*
> 
> How are they lying about the switches? Wasn't it always clear that only the kinzu v2 pro would have omron switches?


This statement claims that they upgraded the feet and the switches.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kimrom*
> 
> We have upgraded the feet and switches in Kana, also based on feedback from this forum.


They did neither. Same plastic feet. Same TTC switches.


----------



## glenn37216

Welp ,

Just got my Kana today and tried to produce the jump bug but could not. I didn't test before the firmware update nor before I installed the software. I think there was just a bad batch to go out .I'm now hearing from other's I know that just bought the mouse here @ our local Best Buy and their Kana's are good too.

For hours on end after benchmarking + stressing my cpu and resources while testing @ 1000HZ polling for the jump bug at the same time I still couldnt produce the skip.....

Tested on Win 7 64 and 32 bit
on my lan pc's (8)....

Also tested 10 mice pads , the best being the Steelseries 9hd ( for smoothness) and the worse was the Qck Heavy. (lots of drag on cloth pads....) Ordered some Kinzu feet that should be in next week to replace the "genetic" teflon ones..hope this helps eliminate the roughness a bit while on my 9HD.

Overall Very happy with the mouse...perfect for my grip and style of gameplay. Maybe just got lucky... not sure . Whatever the case I'm glad I took a chance on the KANA. :}


----------



## belowthelights

hey can you compare accuracy in paint between 800 and 1600 dpi then post the results? ^^^


----------



## 337drew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glenn37216*
> 
> Welp ,
> Just got my Kana today and tried to produce the jump bug but could not. I didn't test before the firmware update nor before I installed the software. I think there was just a bad batch to go out .I'm now hearing from other's I know that just bought the mouse here @ our local Best Buy and their Kana's are good too.


You may be right glenn. It's extremely easy to reproduce the jump bug on my Kana. Maybe there was a bad batch. After reading your comments along with others, I thought I'd give it a shot. I plugged the mouse in, installed the SS engine, and was immediately prompted with a firmware update. However, the version still showed v257. Not sure why the firmware update was even automatically applied.

Bug still exists. Super easy to reproduce.



I find it very hard to believe a company trying to sell "professional gaming gear" would even let these things out.


----------



## 337drew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *belowthelights*
> 
> hey can you compare accuracy in paint between 800 and 1600 dpi then post the results? ^^^


Sure bud.


----------



## belowthelights

Yeah but I want to see if a Kana without the jump bug has better tracking at 1600 dpi. It's a shot in the dark but I'm hoping that is also fixed.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HaiiYaa*
> 
> Same like the old kinzu right
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ? They drag on clothpads but are very fast on hardpads


Yes.

What isn't fast on hard surfaces? ;D

@ bug.

The problem is certainly hardware related as various firmware updates and PCBs remain identical. The likely scenario is that those that can't tigger the bug might draw lines differently that those that can.

To me it looks like the sensor is dropping frames with rapid motion.


----------



## h0lm

From what I've read on here there seems to be a pattern where those who have the pixelbug are using 800dpi, and those that don't are using 400 dpi.
Could you deny/confirm?


----------



## belowthelights

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *h0lm*
> 
> From what I've read on here there seems to be a pattern where those who have the pixelbug are using 800dpi, and those that don't are using 400 dpi.
> Could you deny/confirm?


I get it at 1600 dpi as well as 800 dpi.


----------



## 161029

Nothing on Kana-adder/Kinzuadder v2/Kinzuadder v2 Pro?


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Nothing on Kana-adder/Kinzuadder v2/Kinzuadder v2 Pro?


Well the kinzu shapes are the same and you're only replacing the internals; the only difference between the kinzu v1 and the kinzu v2 so what's the use. The real question is whether a kana-adder is possible.


----------



## Skylit

Kana-adder - Not possible.

Uses a single PCB. Refer to pics posted earlier in this thread


----------



## kaingosu

http://lanoc.org/images/news/2012/ces/steelseries/104.JPG



Is that a blue Kinzu?


----------



## 337drew

Looks good. WTB non glossy shell + a working sensor.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *h0lm*
> 
> From what I've read on here there seems to be a pattern where those who have the pixelbug are using 800dpi, and those that don't are using 400 dpi.
> Could you deny/confirm?


The bug triggers on all CPI and polling rate combinations.


----------



## imagran

what are the flaws of kana or its sensor? Any accel or smthing?


----------



## belowthelights

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imagran*
> 
> what are the flaws of kana or its sensor? Any accel or smthing?


You could read a few posts on any page really and find that the Kana has a bug that causes your mouse to jump pixels. Also the tracking is poor at any dpi above 800. But hey, no accel!


----------



## imagran

i know about the jump bug, but that can be fixed with software update on mouse. Any other flaws? What do u mean "poor tracking"?

How when we compare Kana to Zowie AM?

I need to choose between the two, both are in the shape of WMO sob toh will prooly suit me.


----------



## f0rld

Im looking for a new mouse since my old one (ec2 blue) lacks of something, something which i can't put into words. Im familiar with 1.1 shape (AM, kana and all the other mice which is close to 1.1, not going to buy kana since the jump bug or AM since mouse1 and mouse2 can be stuck to each other occasionally), I want an optical mouse, prediction free sensor, no positive acc built-in the sensor, any suggestions? And oh im not familiar with logitech's mice shape-wise since the shape is weird. I dont care about switches, but the original mouse feet should be atleast average in order to attract my interest.

Edit: my real sensitivy is 57,77/360, 22"/360, will i hit kinzu v2's malfunction speed easily? Guess so, sadly i can't buy the kinzu v2 pro.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Well the kinzu shapes are the same and you're only replacing the internals; the only difference between the kinzu v1 and the kinzu v2 so what's the use. The real question is whether a kana-adder is possible.


So Kinzuadder V2 and V2 Pro are possible.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Kana-adder - Not possible.
> Uses a single PCB. Refer to pics posted earlier in this thread


That's fine. As long as I can make a Kinzuadder V2 or V2 Pro.


----------



## imagran

besides the jump bug its a flawless mouse with a shape of WMO right?


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imagran*
> 
> besides the jump bug its a flawless mouse with a shape of WMO right?


If you mean the Kana, then not at 1600DPI setting.
It's as fast as 1600DPI, but moves by 2 pixels.


----------



## imagran

I use 800-1000dpi. Just Kana is more similiar to WMO judging by the size. So i am assuming there are no other flaws besides the jump bug. Accle/tracking/etc is all ok?

edit; also kana has no predicition right?


----------



## Skylit

Kana is basically a "WMO- 1.1" The only thing 1.1 about the mouse is its side buttons. The shape and size are almost identical to the Wheel Mouse Optical.

Kana has prediction by the common interpretation of how people view it. It's more of a degree factor when it comes to a plethora of sensors.


----------



## imagran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Kana is basically a "WMO- 1.1" The only thing 1.1 about the mouse is its side buttons. The shape and size are almost identical to the Wheel Mouse Optical.
> Kana has prediction by the common interpretation of how people view it. It's more of a degree factor when it comes to a plethora of sensors.


That is why i want it so badly. The only thing that stops me are people reporting some bugs and negative opinions. I can live with the bug as long as other things remain on their place.

Prediciton is biger then in EC1/2*? Its as bad as in A3060? (*Imo ec2 has much less prediction than a4tech mices using A3060)

no accel, good tracking right and its win for me ^^


----------



## Skylit

Lower.


----------



## imagran

Great then. Hope i wont be dissapointed.

Thank you for help : )


----------



## f0rld

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Kana is basically a "WMO- 1.1" The only thing 1.1 about the mouse is its side buttons. The shape and size are almost identical to the Wheel Mouse Optical.
> Kana has prediction by the common interpretation of how people view it. It's more of a degree factor when it comes to a plethora of sensors.


Do you know any mouse which meets my desires? The desires are following:
1. Prediction free sensor
2. Optical (or a sensor which malfunction speed is good enough for my RS: 57,7cm/360)
3. No sensor bugs (jump bug, built-in acc and so on)
4. Can be both ambidextrous and right-handed mouse
5. Must include rubber top or rubber side atleast


----------



## imagran

Razer Abyssus with new firmware is jitter free. I owned two and they were both ok.

Razer DA seem*ED* also OK for a long time. Now ppl are posting some strange things.

Any other mouse has some flaws which causes to eliminate it from your list.

You have to make compromises coz there is no perfect mice right now.

btw; Imo u are lucky that u are considering only the sensor, not sensor+shape as a deciding factor.


----------



## f0rld

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imagran*
> 
> Razer Abyssus with new firmware is jitter free. I owned two and they were both ok.
> Razer DA seem*ED* also OK for a long time. Now ppl are posting some strange things.
> Any other mouse has some flaws which causes to eliminate it from your list.
> You have to make compromises coz there is no perfect mice right now.
> btw; Imo u are lucky that u are considering only the sensor, not sensor+shape as a deciding factor.


Yea thanks for the suggestions, im looking for a abyssus more rather than since DA had failish / curves on the side (hopefully you got me) and the lift-off distance was too high for me since it tracked the movement when i didn't want it to do so.
Also going to borrow a G400 from my friend and test it while gaming and see if it is a worth-buying mouse or not, (giving my ec2 blue to him for the time i use his one).


----------



## imagran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *f0rld*
> 
> Yea thanks for the suggestions, im looking for a abyssus more rather than since DA had failish / curves on the side (hopefully you got me) and the lift-off distance was too high for me since it tracked the movement when i didn't want it to do so.
> Also going to borrow a G400 from my friend and test it while gaming and see if it is a worth-buying mouse or not, (giving my ec2 blue to him for the time i use his one).


deathadder lod tape fix

http://avinin1.imgur.com/deathadder_tape_fix
http://www.overclock.net/t/1078803/dem-deathadder-questions/10


----------



## Moratorius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *337drew*
> 
> It's too bad too. The mouse feels really solid. I'm not sure why people said they were flimsy. The only thing wrong that I can identify with the build quality is the wheel's light shines through the top plastic shell. It doesn't just shine through the seam, it shines right through the top shell. I'm certain that's why they covered up the sensor's LED with black tape. This thing would be glowing all sorts of pink, red, and white.


Oh my, that's a lot of light leaking there. Have you tried any quick fixes, or is it not an issue for you?


----------



## 337drew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moratorius*
> 
> Oh my, that's a lot of light leaking there. Have you tried any quick fixes, or is it not an issue for you?


I'm not taking it apart to try and fix ascetic issues when there are bigger issues with the mouse the warranty should cover. I'll be holding on to the mouse for another week or so to give Steelseries a chance to fix the issue if they can. If they don't provide me with a fix or work around on my open ticket I'm going to just return it. I'm very disappointed with the sensor bug.

My latest theory is that they may have fixed the bug in their recent production runs which is why people who've purchased them from "bigger" retailers seem to have good sensors. I purchased mine from the 1st retailer that had them for sale from Amazon. I suspect Steelseries may have shipped out and sold mice from their earlier production runs which were clearly not working. They probably just wanted to maximize their profits by selling off their beta mice figuring the odds of the average person noticing the issue was in their favor.

How else do you explain how easily myself and a few others can so easily reproduce the pixel jumping bug when others cannot? It's pretty hard NOT to notice it.


----------



## glenn37216

I strongly believe you're right drew.I tested a kana that came from Germany and it had the pixel jump bug. I haven't updated the mouse yet because its not mine but I think this proves that first batch of kanas were bad...


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *337drew*
> 
> I'm not taking it apart to try and fix ascetic issues when there are bigger issues with the mouse the warranty should cover. I'll be holding on to the mouse for another week or so to give Steelseries a chance to fix the issue if they can. If they don't provide me with a fix or work around on my open ticket I'm going to just return it. I'm very disappointed with the sensor bug.
> My latest theory is that they may have fixed the bug in their recent production runs which is why people who've purchased them from "bigger" retailers seem to have good sensors. I purchased mine from the 1st retailer that had them for sale from Amazon. I suspect Steelseries may have shipped out and sold mice from their earlier production runs which were clearly not working. They probably just wanted to maximize their profits by selling off their beta mice figuring the odds of the average person noticing the issue was in their favor.
> How else do you explain how easily myself and a few others can so easily reproduce the pixel jumping bug when others cannot? It's pretty hard NOT to notice it.


I hope you're right, I don't have anything against SS or want them to fail or anything so if this was the case then that would be great news. But I wonder why they would send me another batch of buggy mice? I was voted in to the testing and complained about the bug through THREE sets of the Kinzu v2 pro and the Kana... Wouldn't they want to make sure to send the handful of testers a set of mice from the fixed batch so that I would shut up about the bug and give the mice a thumbs up to buy?


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I hope you're right, I don't have anything against SS or want them to fail or anything so if this was the case then that would be great news. But I wonder why they would send me another batch of buggy mice? I was voted in to the testing and complained about the bug through THREE sets of the Kinzu v2 pro and the Kana... Wouldn't they want to make sure to send the handful of testers a set of mice from the fixed batch so that I would shut up about the bug and give the mice a thumbs up to buy?


This. It would be really nice if they fix this issue.


----------



## fasti

Just got this pro v2 black edition. This has the jump bug(800cpi), altough it's like 1/5 of a jump compared to what I have seen in this thread and it wasn't as common. Using this at 400, I got one jump in 5mins of trying and that jump was just about 2 pixels.

Also the mouse feet, I remember when I tested kinzu v1 and they were horrible. This doesn't seem to have same type of crappy feet. Can't really compare to my old Xai as it has pretty worn out feet, but I think these are best type of feet SS has (I think Xai had these type when fresh, but can't remember) . Works great on hard surface at least, smooth and quiet.

The glossy shell glues to my hand <3, which is nice for lifting, not sure what happens when my hand gets wet thou and it will. Atleast it's better this way than DA way of glossy sides, should be able to keep the mouse under control from griping the sides.

Anyway to make the mousewheel clicking noise (from moving the mouse around) go away? Does Kana have this same noise?

Feels nice to have a smaller mouse for my hand with proper sensor. But I miss my side buttons for mmo's ><.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fasti*
> 
> Just got this pro v2 black edition. This has the jump bug(800cpi), altough it's like 1/5 of a jump compared to what I have seen in this thread and it wasn't as common. Using this at 400, I got one jump in 5mins of trying and that jump was just about 2 pixels.
> Also the mouse feet, I remember when I tested kinzu v1 and they were horrible. This doesn't seem to have same type of crappy feet. Can't really compare to my old Xai as it has pretty worn out feet, but I think these are best type of feet SS has (I think Xai had these type when fresh, but can't remember) . Works great on hard surface at least, smooth and quiet.
> The glossy shell glues to my hand <3, which is nice for lifting, not sure what happens when my hand gets wet thou and it will. Atleast it's better this way than DA way of glossy sides, should be able to keep the mouse under control from griping the sides.
> Anyway to make the mousewheel clicking noise (from moving the mouse around) go away? Does Kana have this same noise?


Pictures!


----------



## MONVMENTVM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fasti*
> 
> Just got this pro v2 black edition. This has the jump bug(800cpi), altough it's like 1/5 of a jump compared to what I have seen in this thread and it wasn't as common. Using this at 400, I got one jump in 5mins of trying and that jump was just about 2 pixels.
> Also the mouse feet, I remember when I tested kinzu v1 and they were horrible. This doesn't seem to have same type of crappy feet. Can't really compare to my old Xai as it has pretty worn out feet, but I think these are best type of feet SS has (I think Xai had these type when fresh, but can't remember) . Works great on hard surface at least, smooth and quiet.
> The glossy shell glues to my hand <3, which is nice for lifting, not sure what happens when my hand gets wet thou and it will. Atleast it's better this way than DA way of glossy sides, should be able to keep the mouse under control from griping the sides.
> Anyway to make the mousewheel clicking noise (from moving the mouse around) go away? Does Kana have this same noise?


Well 2 pixels might be some random inconsistency if it really isn't more. Anyway I'm torn between the normal Kinzu and the Pro because I also can't decide whether I want that glossy-ness or not. I love the way the Xai feels, the DA is really horrible compared to that. Maybe you could report back after some sweaty hours of gaming of how you like it compared to the Xai.


----------



## imagran

How when we compare Kana tracking to Zowie AM tracking. Which is better? (exluding the jumo bug)


----------



## Derp

He's swiping unrealistically fast but I still find this really funny. I'm installing CS atm just to see if I can reproduce this. Has this happened to anyone else?


----------



## Vikhr

Oh boy a new "feature".


----------



## bojinglebells

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's swiping unrealistically fast but I still find this really funny. I'm installing CS atm just to see if I can reproduce this. Has this happened to anyone else?


reminds me of the days of ball mice and taking the ball out and just rolling the spinner


----------



## fasti

I would say sweat is non-issue with kinzu v2 pro, unless you don't like the sticky feeling. It's too light for it to slip anywhere and the sides won't slip so no problem.


----------



## Derp

I tried for about 5 minutes but I couldn't reproduce what was in that video.


----------



## fasti

Kinzu v2 pro's 400cpi is like 360cpi on Xai.

Also the sides are slightly worse (more slippy) than on Xai. How is it in Kana?

Does Kana move same amount with 400cpi than kinzu v2 pro with 400cpi?


----------



## Derp

Okay after moving the Kana from the top right of my pad to the bottom left I was able to reproduce that spinning from the video. But then I couldn't get it to happen again..... So the bug exists but I doubt anyone would ever encounter it during regular game-play. The pixel jump bug, that's a real issue that needs fixing.


----------



## imagran

Guys how do u rate the tracking of Kana compared to Zowie AM? Are they kinda close ?

I heard its kinda weird compared to other mices, true or not?


----------



## fasti

Mmm this sensor is making high pitch sound (for those who can still hear them). Not sure if annoying, can clearly hear it while you are relaxing with no sounds around.


----------



## piskooooo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fasti*
> 
> Mmm this sensor is making high pitch sound (for those who can still hear them). Not sure if annoying, can clearly hear it while you are relaxing with no sounds around.


oh god why did you say this now I can hear it


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *piskooooo*
> 
> oh god why did you say this now I can hear it


Good luck forgetting it.


----------



## innov

is there a PID on bottom of SS mice like in Logitechs? I wonder if we could get some sort comparison of PID's and whether the user experiences the pixel jump bug or not.


----------



## Sriracha

There's a serial on the bottom of my Xai but no PID.


----------



## kaingosu

Kana has a Model Number and a Product Number. Mine are MD: 62029 PN: 62030. Can't trigger the "jump bug".


----------



## piskooooo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> Kana has a Model Number and a Product Number. Mine are MD: 62029 PN: 62030. Can't trigger the "jump bug".


I can trigger it pretty easily and my PN is 62029. Maybe that's it?


----------



## CdnToothpaste

Isn't PID either 62029 (white) or 62030 (black/orange) for the Kana?

See:
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=63810
http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=63808

Edit: Just read Kaingosu's post, maybe not.


----------



## Skylit

The beta model I received is a 62029.

Like I said earlier, the hardware wasn't changed for production Kana or Kinzu's. I remain skeptic.


----------



## SEb47

Guys, hows the roccat kova compared to kana and kinzu v2 ? Really need a new mouse !

Thanks


----------



## fasti

Did some photoing while tweaking right and left switches.

General pics:

The top cover has 2 parts (glossy and non-glossy), but you can't really seperate them like in Abyssus to get more weight off. Quality is nice, it doesn't bend in any way.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzuv2pro_bottomcover.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzuv2pro_topcover.jpg

PCB is in a fortress:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzuv2pro_fortress.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzuv2pro_inside1.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzuv2pro_inside2.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzuv2pro_inside3.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzuv2pro_inside4.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzuv2pro_inside5.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzuv2pro_longspikes.jpg

Modifying:
This should work for other mices, just be sure that you can get the switches open ~easily. Some mices are horrible to open. Try it on some old mice if you want to practice.

Tools:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzuv2pro_tools1.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzuv2pro_tools2.jpg

Found the exact locations by moving and pushing down with those scissors, no need to replace mouse feet, at least on hard surface. The front holes are exactly at the spot where the wearing of the feet starts, so you might notice something different. Carpet knife used for cutting the hole. *Warning:* if you take the feet off, you will bend them and they won't work like they did and then you need to get replacement feets.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzuv2pro_behindscrews.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzuv2pro_frontscrews.jpg

Opened the switches from the ends with carpet knife:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzuv2pro_switchopened.jpg

The tweaked part. Just push it lightly and test after each push how it clicks. Even if you don't feel it going down, it just did.:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzuv2pro_tweakpart.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzuv2pro_rightswitch_origional.jpg -origional
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzuv2pro_rightswitch_modified.jpg -tweaked, meh bad focus...
Tweaked one is a lot different, even with little tweaking. Also the switches had origionally a totally different feeling, more different than on other mices that I have. The difference isn't from slightly different install angle, as it was clearly noticable when I opened the switches. Right click feels more harder/sharper with more sound, while left one is more smoother with less sound. I like the left one better : ) Might be the difference between the part that moves.

There is a new problem that comes after tweaking, there's more travel between switch and button. Fixed it with tape. There's a lot of tape because I was testing how the clicking would change. Also the tape might stretch in a while, so you might want to replace it if you want to keep the clicks very sensitive:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzuv2pro_tape1.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzuv2pro_tape2.jpg

Oh and when you screw everything back (8) and finally turn it around, you will notice that you forgot your mousewheel, now you have to take the whole mouse apart again.

I wouldn't recommend tweaking the middlemouse-button, because you can't "force/tape" the wheel down to the switch, and that will make it feel worse.

Just taping w/o modifying also gives some results. If you see clicking "stick down" and want to go further, you need to tweak the switches.

Pros:
- A lot less recoil when clicking
- You can tweak it to your fingers so that you can rest your fingers, but even slight push will click it.
- Less noise

Probable Cons:
- No tacticle feel?, I still feel it, but I have very sensitive fingers.
- Need to click near the scrollwheel. No problem for me.
- Switch fail faster? Every mouse I have tweaked hasn't failed yet. Used my tweaked logitech optical mouse for 10years. I don't hammer my buttons, maybe because of my fingers not really wanting to hammer. Then again the tweak allows you to push the buttons down with a lot less force.


----------



## fasti

Kinzu v2 pro is reflecting red light through the scrollwheel hole on to the lower part of the screen... Should be easy to fix by just putting some stuff in it that blocks it that way.


----------



## 161029

Not a fan of the tape. Kind of looks like you broke it and tried fixing it.


----------



## MONVMENTVM

Damn the tape looks fugly







but nice pics, they help a little figuring out if and how to do a kinzuadder with the v2 (pro).

Anyway about that tape fix you did in order to minimize the button travel: You could also either put some tiny layered pieces of tape on either the switches or on the plastic things of the buttons that actually press the switches, like seen here:


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MONVMENTVM*
> 
> Damn the tape looks fugly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but nice pics, they help a little figuring out if and how to do a kinzuadder with the v2 (pro).
> Anyway about that tape fix you did in order to minimize the button travel: You could also either put some tiny layered pieces of tape on either the switches or on the plastic things of the buttons that actually press the switches, like seen here:


This. Better than tape.


----------



## MONVMENTVM

One more possibility I was thinking of because layered tape might be too soft and change the tactile feeling:



You can also put some kind of plastic foil/sheet/whatever on top of the switch (grey box) and glue it in place (yellow dots) or tape it down (red boxes). I guess there are a lot of possibilities to solve the distance problem permanently inside the mouse itself... see what you got around and be creative







.


----------



## thuNDa

Tape over the sticks will get loose in no time in my experience(even when superglued :S), so i would go for the method of MONVMENTVM.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MONVMENTVM*
> 
> One more possibility I was thinking of because layered tape might be too soft and change the tactile feeling:
> 
> You can also put some kind of plastic foil/sheet/whatever on top of the switch (grey box) and glue it in place (yellow dots) or tape it down (red boxes). I guess there are a lot of possibilities to solve the distance problem permanently inside the mouse itself... see what you got around and be creative
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Approved by the asian.

(yes I'm asian)


----------



## Honzik1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SEb47*
> 
> Guys, hows the roccat kova compared to kana and kinzu v2 ? Really need a new mouse !
> Thanks


Gigabyte M8000X
I had Xai before. Gigabyte is much better mouse.


----------



## SEb47

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Honzik1*
> 
> Gigabyte M8000X
> I had Xai before. Gigabyte is much better mouse.


I use claw grip while sniping and Fingertip while playign assualt







M8000x is too big for me


----------



## FLYAWAY8

Can somebody make a comparison between kinzu V1 and kinzu V2 Pro sensor-wise(tracking,accuracy etc.).Why V2 has less fps compared to V1 , how this affect the quality of the mouse?What's going on with the "sensor jump bug"?Was this a bad batch or not?If not , did SS fix the problem with firmware or something?Thanks!Im sorry if my english is bad.


----------



## Keeler

Kana firmware update this week according to Kim Rom's Twitter.

https://twitter.com/#!/KimRom


----------



## 337drew

Great job Steelseries!

/clap


----------



## FLYAWAY8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Keeler*
> 
> Kana firmware update this week according to Kim Rom's Twitter.
> https://twitter.com/#!/KimRom


Thank you


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FLYAWAY8*
> 
> Can somebody make a comparison between kinzu V1 and kinzu V2 Pro sensor-wise(tracking,accuracy etc.).Why V2 has less fps compared to V1 , how this affect the quality of the mouse?What's going on with the "sensor jump bug"?Was this a bad batch or not?If not , did SS fix the problem with firmware or something?Thanks!Im sorry if my english is bad.


1) Different sensor with a different architecture.
2) FPS is common day gaming mice is more or less a marketing tool. A 9000 fps mouse with a smaller pixel ray could be considered worse than a 3600 FPS mouse with a large one. What usually matters from a technical aspect is the total image processing or megapixels/s rating formed by both fps + array size. Higher rating usually indicates a sensors CPI and max scaling abilities, but not all sensors or architectures are equal. If you like or use lower settings such as 400 CPI, you can pretty much ignore the high ratings.
3)The "bad batch" theory isn't likely. Firmware or actual hardware is more or less the cause.
4) Steelseries is apparently working on distributing a fix via firmware. Let's hope for the best.


----------



## piskooooo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> 2) FPS is common day gaming mice is more or less a marketing tool. A 9000 fps mouse with a smaller pixel ray could be considered worse than a 3600 FPS mouse with a large one. What usually matters from a technical aspect is the total image processing or megapixels/s rating formed by both fps + array size. Higher rating usually indicates a sensors CPI and max scaling abilities, but not all sensors or architectures are equal. If you like or use lower settings such as 400 CPI, you can pretty much ignore the high ratings.


What does FPS even mean with mice? I'm assuming it's marketing BS but there has to be something behind it.


----------



## h0lm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *piskooooo*
> 
> What does FPS even mean with mice? I'm assuming it's marketing BS but there has to be something behind it.


Also, I've never understood what FPS is in relation to HZ.
To my knowledge in monitors, FPS is what the computer can provide, whereas HZ is what the update rate of the monitor is.

So what are these in a mouse? I guess HZ is the polling rate, ie. the amount of times the mouse sends an update to the computer, whilst FPS is the amount of times the mouse reads the surface of the mousepad.


----------



## Luhz

FPS is the number of frames the mouse sensor captures per second of the surface which is used to calculate the movement of the mouse.

As Skylit stated, the general rule is that more megapixels/sec is better, whereas the FPS alone only tells half the story.

Basically, megapixels/sec = frames/sec * pixels/frame *

Even this isn't a guaranteed rule, but it is more helpful than looking at FPS alone.

For example, a mouse with a frame size of 16x16 pixels only captures 1/4 of the surface area that a 32x32 pixel sensor does. The general theory as a result is that the 16x16 sensor will require up to 4x the FPS in order to capture the same amount of information about the surface. In theory, this means that a 16x16 sensor at 8000FPS will have comparable performance to a 32x32 sensor at 2000FPS.


----------



## 161029

So it's like a monitor but the higher the FPS and the bigger the image it can capture, the quicker/better it can calculate.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *piskooooo*
> 
> What does FPS even mean with mice? I'm assuming it's marketing BS but there has to be something behind it.


The best way to explain this is to look up videos of professional cameras taking snapshots at high FPS values.

Assuming equal cmos sizes, a higher FPS rating will give you" better or more accurate" data and performance at higher CPI ranges. If the cmos size or area scanned is smaller, Lets say 22x22 @ 9000 FPS (4.3mp/s) vs 30x30 @ 6469 FPS (5.8mp/s) the 30x30 sensor is "superior " since it can move or push more accurate data ultimately contributing to better tracking quality at higher CPI values.

A higher FPS rating won't typically matter to the gamer that uses 400/800 CPI. Any modern day gaming sensor will push those with ease, but architecture and or firmware are also major contributors to how a sensor tracks

The the two values used above are from fairly common sensors.


----------



## MONVMENTVM

Hz = s^(-1) = 1/s (where s means second)

so for example 60 Hz = "60 * 1/s" or 60/s. Which in case of monitor refresh rates means it can show you 60 pictures per second. Therefore FPS means Frames Per Second which as you may have guessed now mathematically means Number-of-Frames/s and Hz or Hertz is simply the unit in which it is measured (so as you can see above it just means something per second). A 9000 FPS sensor therefore takes 9000 pictures of the surface per second.









Edit: holy moly... so pwned


----------



## Zackarak

I like the coating on XAI but Kinzu v2 Pro is glossy. What are the differences between Kinzu v2 and pro? I know the pro version has omron switches. How are they better than what Kinzu v2 has?


----------



## jung1e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zackarak*
> 
> I like the coating on XAI but Kinzu v2 Pro is glossy. What are the differences between Kinzu v2 and pro? I know the pro version has omron switches. How are they better than what Kinzu v2 has?


Both are omron switches like the v1 red edition. The only thing that differs would be improved sensor with less accel it seems from what I've seen. Right have I have a white kinzu lying around as its the same as the red but just with TTC instead of omrons


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MONVMENTVM*
> 
> Hz = s^(-1) = 1/s (where s means second)
> so for example 60 Hz = "60 * 1/s" or 60/s. Which in case of monitor refresh rates means it can show you 60 pictures per second. Therefore FPS means Frames Per Second which as you may have guessed now mathematically means Number-of-Frames/s and Hz or Hertz is simply the unit in which it is measured (so as you can see above it just means something per second). A 9000 FPS sensor therefore takes 9000 pictures of the surface per second.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: holy moly... so pwned


I'm only in middle school but wouldn't that be seconds to the negative first power which is...something other than the value itself?


----------



## end0rphine

My own input (kana - white)

Nice shape.
Switches are okay - loud but tacticle; loudness doesn't really affect me
Feet are horrendous - will switch these out asap
Scroll wheel is too easy to turn and not enough tactility.
Cord: wow oh wow is this stiff. Someone should tell steelseries they'd probably save more money if they just went with a flexible rubber cable - they seem to be infatuated with cutting costs anyway.

Actually abit meh. Will have to use this abit more for an extended period of time after I receive some replacement feet. Pixel jumping is present, but hasn't really affected me. Tracking is ok, feels the same as every other mouse I have including the AM.


----------



## Zackarak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jung1e*
> 
> Both are omron switches like the v1 red edition. The only thing that differs would be improved sensor with less accel it seems from what I've seen. Right have I have a white kinzu lying around as its the same as the red but just with TTC instead of omrons


I thought the Kinzu v2 used TTC and Kinzu v2 Pro omron?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> My own input (kana - white)
> Nice shape.
> Switches are okay - loud but tacticle; loudness doesn't really affect me
> Feet are horrendous - will switch these out asap
> Scroll wheel is too easy to turn and not enough tactility.
> Cord: wow oh wow is this stiff. Someone should tell steelseries they'd probably save more money if they just went with a flexible rubber cable - they seem to be infatuated with cutting costs anyway.
> Actually abit meh. Will have to use this abit more for an extended period of time after I receive some replacement feet. Pixel jumping is present, but hasn't really affected me. Tracking is ok, feels the same as every other mouse I have including the AM.


How are the side buttons? I only use side buttons when browsing. Seeing as there are one button on each side it looks kinda useless.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zackarak*
> 
> I thought the Kinzu v2 used TTC and Kinzu v2 Pro omron?


Correct.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zackarak*
> 
> How are the side buttons? I only use side buttons when browsing. Seeing as there are one button on each side it looks kinda useless.


The side buttons are a strange design. Truth be told, you can probably only *comfortably* use one side button, but sure you can use both. The design makes it so, for me anyway, I have to rest my thumb on top of the button and the rest beneath it. So half my thumb is on the button, and the other half on the ridge. This would be bad if not for the slight elasticity when pressing the side button - the button has to be depressed fairly deeply for it to register a click. It's weird and I hope I get used to it, but at the moment its uncomfortable.


----------



## Zackarak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> The side buttons are a strange design. Truth be told, you can probably only *comfortably* use one side button, but sure you can use both. The design makes it so, for me anyway, I have to rest my thumb on top of the button and the rest beneath it. So half my thumb is on the button, and the other half on the ridge. This would be bad if not for the slight elasticity when pressing the side button - the button has to be depressed fairly deeply for it to register a click. It's weird and I hope I get used to it, but at the moment its uncomfortable.


Hmm I guess I might go for kinzu v2 pro instead. Only thing I don't like is the glossy finish.


----------



## Sencha

Kinzu v2 pro is up too buy now on their website for those interested. I still really want to try one but will pick one up for sub £30 from a UK retailer.


----------



## piskooooo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Feet are horrendous - will switch these out asap


Don't the feet kind of look like they're made out of plastic? I really don't know what else they could be.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *piskooooo*
> 
> Don't the feet kind of look like they're made out of plastic? I really don't know what else they could be.


Yes definitely look and feel like plastic (looks grainy). When searching for UPE, all I could find were links to plastic manufacturing processes and products. UTFE is teflon, and until I see that on the product description, the feet are by all accounts plastic.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Correct.


Wait, so I don't have to replace the switches with other Omrons (well, do they use the better switches or is only one switch compatible with this PCB?)?









Although I kind of did want the black color they offer for the Kinzu V2 that's like the Kinzu v1. Guess I'm going with silver (or I can paint).


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jung1e*
> 
> Both are omron switches like the v1 red edition.


wrong.
The red kinzu v1 pro ed. has omron d2f-01f which are considered best switches you can get.
The kinzu v2 pro ed. has just the mainstream omron d2fc-f-7n, which you can find in the most mice anyways(if they are not from steelseries).


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> wrong.
> The red kinzu v1 pro ed. has omron d2f-01f which are considered best switches you can get.
> The kinzu v2 pro ed. has just the mainstream omron d2fc-f-7n, which you can find in the most mice anyways(if they are not from steelseries).


Wait, I don't remember a Kinzu V1 Pro.


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> wrong.
> The red kinzu v1 pro ed. has omron d2f-01f which are considered best switches you can get.
> The kinzu v2 pro ed. has just the mainstream omron d2fc-f-7n, which you can find in the most mice anyways(if they are not from steelseries).


woot! So the kinzu v1 pro has better omron switches than the kinzu v2 pro?


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Wait, I don't remember a Kinzu V1 Pro.


It exists. Just not in mainstream markets. Only in Asia.


----------



## thuNDa

http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/803343/211196030-372728987/Steelseries-Kinzu-RED-Pro-Edition-Gaming-Mouse-Free-Fast-Shipping-Original-Brand-NEW-In-Box-.html

and yes it has better switches than the v2 pro ed.(maybe the mousefeet are better too as they look like regular teflon(PTFE))


----------



## FLYAWAY8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FLYAWAY8*
> 
> Thank you


Thank you Skylit








Yes I play with 400CPI.My actual mouse is kinzu V1 and I like it except the acceleration and the scroll bug.I'm playing with low sensitivity.Does the upgrade to kinzu v2 Pro worth?


----------



## Luhz

I ordered a Kana and Kinzu V2 (non-pro), and it looks like from my courier tracking that I'll probably get them today.

I'll post pictures and tracking results once I get them. I'm certainly interested to see if I get the jump bug on both mice.


----------



## jouzeroff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luhz*
> 
> I ordered a Kana and Kinzu V2 (non-pro), and it looks like from my courier tracking that I'll probably get them today.
> I'll post pictures and tracking results once I get them. I'm certainly interested to see if I get the jump bug on both mice.


I ordered a Kana too.
I'll test the jump bug before and after updating the firmware.


----------



## Luxer

I've been using the kana on and off for about a week. I'm holding off using it 24/7 until I get the Kinzu glides in the mail.

pros:

+ good size for my small hands
+ has side buttons unlike Kinzu
+ left & right mouse buttons feel better and snappier than the Xai/Sensei

cons:

- side plastic feels cheap
- gap between the side & side button feels wierd
- side buttons feel cheap compared to xai/sensei
- you absolutely need the kinzu glides or glide tape

It feels cheap in a few areas that I mentioned, but they didn't cheap out on the sensor or the mouse buttons. The mouse buttons are better than the Xai and Sensei in my opinion. I only wish they included some glide mouse feet because it scrapes across my hard mousepads and gives a lot of resistance on cloth. I kind of hope they make a more expensive version of the Kana that has everything the Sensei has.


----------



## shin4649

Man these firmware updates really put me off from ordering other mice. Part of me still hope that the Kana or Kinzu v2 doesn't turn out to be a piece of garbage.

Other than the jump bug, and other non-sensor related issues, the Kana/Kinzu v2 still doesn't track well at 1600CPI am I right?


----------



## Luhz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shin4649*
> 
> Man these firmware updates really put me off from ordering other mice. Part of me still hope that the Kana or Kinzu v2 doesn't turn out to be a piece of garbage.
> Other than the jump bug, and other non-sensor related issues, the Kana/Kinzu v2 still doesn't track well at 1600CPI am I right?


My understanding is that the 1600CPI is interpolated on both mice, hence poorer tracking.


----------



## shin4649

Hmm I see, thanks. Does anyone know from what CPI onwards do the mice interpolate tracking input? I'm not particularly a high CPI user, but it'd be good to know.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luhz*
> 
> My understanding is that the 1600CPI is interpolated on both mice, hence poorer tracking.


No, it's interpolated on the Kana which has better tracking on the other hand at 800DPI, and it's real on the kinzu v2 which tracks only about half as good as the kana.


----------



## Luxer

I use 3200dpi for the most part on a low sensitivity, fps gaming seems to be fine for me. When you say it has poor tracking are you referring to fast swipes or something else?


----------



## SEb47

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shin4649*
> 
> Man these firmware updates really put me off from ordering other mice. Part of me still hope that the Kana or Kinzu v2 doesn't turn out to be a piece of garbage.
> Other than the jump bug, and other non-sensor related issues, the Kana/Kinzu v2 still doesn't track well at 1600CPI am I right?


Same here







If the firmware update doesnt fix the jump bug, I`ll buy a Roccat Kova asap


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luxer*
> 
> I use 3200dpi for the most part on a low sensitivity, fps gaming seems to be fine for me. When you say it has poor tracking are you referring to fast swipes or something else?


Because it tracks like absolute crap on anything above 800CPI. Steelseries even added a red DCPI bar in the drivers on anything over 800CPI.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luxer*
> 
> I use 3200dpi for the most part on a low sensitivity, fps gaming seems to be fine for me. When you say it has poor tracking are you referring to fast swipes or something else?


Which mouse you got then?








If Kana, then one post above says it all.

Also I was indeed referring to fast swipes, yea.


----------



## shin4649

So basically, in terms of tracking quality, Kana @ 800 CPI or less > Kinzu v2 @ any CPI > Kana @ anything above 800 CPI?


----------



## Luhz

Just a brief update, as I'm at work.

I ordered my mice from NCIX.com, the website didn't say the Kinzu V2 was the pro edition but that's what I got.

The mousefeet definitely are better than original Kinzu, but not as slick as those on my Abyssus. Overall though, I think I'm satisfied with the feet enough that I wouldn't change them immediately. I have an original Kinzu at work on which I swapped the original feet for the white SS WMO glides, I feel the glide on the Kinzu V2 stock is comparable to this.

In a quick test I was able to trigger the jump bug on the Kinzu V2, which is certainly disappointing. As others have said I can easily see this being a dealbreaker.

I haven't tried out the Kana at all yet, will leave that for when I get home.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Because it tracks like absolute crap on anything above 800CPI. Steelseries even added a red DCPI bar in the drivers on anything over 800CPI.


Funny thing is, thats what your cursor likely looks like in hl/quake engines using a sensitivity above 1. Just a little less jumpy.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shin4649*
> 
> So basically, in terms of tracking quality, Kana @ 800 CPI or less > Kinzu v2 @ any CPI > Kana @ anything above 800 CPI?


Kinzu v2 1600 CPI = 800 CPI kana.


----------



## fasti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Kinzu v2 1600 CPI = 800 CPI kana.


Kinzu v2 1600 cpi moves same distance as 800cpi Kana?

edit: uups quality.. but does cpi on kana and kinzu v2 move the same amount? As with Xai it's different cpi universe.


----------



## shin4649

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fasti*
> 
> Kinzu v2 1600 cpi moves same distance as 800cpi Kana?
> edit: uups quality.. but does cpi on kana and kinzu v2 move the same amount? As with Xai it's different cpi universe.


I'd assume they do, since they both use the same sensor, just that the Kana is using a 0.5x lens. I could be wrong though.


----------



## belowthelights

I wonder if it's even possible to fix the poor tracking @ 1600 cpi and jump bug through firmware updates? Can anyone speculate on that. I'm like grasping at any reason to not return my Kana because I like everything else about it lol.


----------



## Luhz

Tested out my Kana in paint and in a 30min CPMA match against bots. 400dpi/500hz.

I couldn't get the jump bug to trigger in paint with the Kana. I don't think this is something I could miss, I got it to happen with the Kinzu V2 Pro and it was very noticeable.

I don't play with the lowest sensitivities, but I didn't have any problems with control or malfunction speeds with the Kana. (2.8 sens / 400 dpi; ~37cm/360) I let Enotus run while I played and it read a maximum of 1.56m/s, so obviously I don't get that fast.

I tried the same thing on the same settings with the Kinzu V2 Pro. I only played about 10min of CPMA because I could very easily hit the malfunction speed and it was intolerable (would jump my cursor down so I would be looking at the floor). Enotus read a maximum of 1.65m/s with the Kinzu V2 Pro, but I'm guessing that's only higher than the Kana because it reads incorrectly when the mouse malfunctions.

For reference, I can play with a WMO without any issues, although I do hit the neg accel on it.

The Kinzu V2 Pro has, as far as I can tell, somewhat smoother mousefeet than the Kana. Compared to my Abyssus, I would rate them like this for speed: Abyssus > V2 Pro > Kana > Kinzu V1. I feel like the V2 Pro feet are satisfactory and wouldn't bother replacing them. I might be tempted to replace the Kana feet.

The buttons on both mice are alright, but the Kana take more force, they feel similar to the Kinzu V1 buttons.

I couldn't tell from the pictures before, but the Kana has sort of soft texture sides and a glossy top. The sides feel a lot like on my WMO, but a little smoother.

The mouse cables on my V2 Pro is a little bit more flexible than the Kana's. Both are much better than my Kinzu V1 was.

It's hard for me to decide which shape I like the best, but I think ultimately if either a Kana Pro was offered with better switches and feet or a V2 Pro with a better malfunction speed I would take either over the ones I have now. As it sits though, I'll be using the Kana since the sensor in the V2 Pro is unplayable in FPS for me.


----------



## glenn37216

Well after a day of testing my Kana the jump bug magically appeared...looks like i was wrong about this mouse after all. If the firmware that is released Friday doesnt resolve this issue im rma'ing this thing. Feels cheap anyways......


----------



## FLYAWAY8

So does the V2 Pro version has higher malfunction speed than the V1?


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> No, it's interpolated on the Kana which has better tracking on the other hand at 800DPI, and it's real on the kinzu v2 which tracks only about half as good as the kana.


Kana's 1600 CPI setting is actually real. The pixart sensor itself has trouble tracking via 3200 CPI registry (1600 Kana)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FLYAWAY8*
> 
> So does the V2 Pro version has higher malfunction speed than the V1?


from what I can remember, yes.


----------



## Derp

As far as I can tell, the new firmware that is supposed to be released later today actually does fix the jump bug on the Kana. I tried to reproduce the bug on this new firmware for quite some time but it seems to be completely fixed.

Unfortunately I haven't heard any news about a new firmware for the Kinzu V2.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> As far as I can tell, the new firmware that is supposed to be released later today actually does fix the jump bug on the Kana. I tried to reproduce the bug on this new firmware for quite some time but it seems to be completely fixed.
> Unfortunately I haven't heard any news about a new firmware for the Kinzu V2.


Aw...


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FLYAWAY8*
> 
> So does the V2 Pro version has higher malfunction speed than the V1?


Besides the strong hardware-accel and the worst prediction ever, the kinzu v1 malfunction speed seems to be quite high.
Some(Strenx) play quake at ~50cm/360° with it.


----------



## FLYAWAY8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> Besides the strong hardware-accel and the worst prediction ever, the kinzu v1 malfunction speed seems to be quite high.
> Some(Strenx) play quake at ~50cm/360° with it.


Good but I'm asking which of these two(V1 and V2) has higher malfunction speed.I have V1 I've never hit the malfunction speed so I wanna know if it's a good upgrade from V1 to V2 for me(if the sensor bug would be fixed).


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FLYAWAY8*
> 
> Good but I'm asking which of these two(V1 and V2) has higher malfunction speed.I have V1 I've never hit the malfunction speed so I wanna know if it's a good upgrade from V1 to V2 for me(if the sensor bug would be fixed).


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luhz*
> 
> I don't play with the lowest sensitivities, but I didn't have any problems with control or malfunction speeds with the Kana. (2.8 sens / 400 dpi; ~37cm/360) I let Enotus run while I played and it read a maximum of 1.56m/s, so obviously I don't get that fast.
> I tried the same thing on the same settings with the Kinzu V2 Pro. I only played about 10min of CPMA because I could very easily hit the malfunction speed and it was intolerable (would jump my cursor down so I would be looking at the floor). Enotus read a maximum of 1.65m/s with the Kinzu V2 Pro, but I'm guessing that's only higher than the Kana because it reads incorrectly when the mouse malfunctions.


----------



## Luhz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> As far as I can tell, the new firmware that is supposed to be released later today actually does fix the jump bug on the Kana. I tried to reproduce the bug on this new firmware for quite some time but it seems to be completely fixed.
> Unfortunately I haven't heard any news about a new firmware for the Kinzu V2.


That's great news. I continued testing my Kana last night and while I didn't have any issues playing games, I did spot the jump bug once in paint. For whatever reason it seems to happen much more rarely on the Kana than the Kinzu V2 to the extent that I think I would still use the Kana, but it's great to know they may have actually fixed it.

If they're on the ball, maybe we can expect Kinzu firmware to follow up after this.


----------



## SEb47

Is the firmware update out?

Sent from my Optimus 2X


----------



## f0rld

Im planning to buy a kinzu v2 pro but im a really low sensitivy player (52cm/360) and im wondering if im going to hit the kinzu v2 pro's malfunction speed ever?


----------



## jouzeroff

just received my SS Kana

After installing the SS Engine (2.1.744.36699 Kan mouse firmware 257) I've got the jump bug on every settings (400 to max - 500hz).

if no new firmware incoming to fix it => refund

...


----------



## jouzeroff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> As far as I can tell, the new firmware that is supposed to be released later today actually does fix the jump bug on the Kana. I tried to reproduce the bug on this new firmware for quite some time but it seems to be completely fixed.
> Unfortunately I haven't heard any news about a new firmware for the Kinzu V2.


what new firmware? there's no new firmware!


----------



## 337drew

Terrible isn't it? Makes me feel like the company is severely lacking in the Testing/QA department. Relying on community members (whose feedback is ignored) and pro gamers to do their testing for them is a joke.


----------



## lisward

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jouzeroff*
> 
> what new firmware? there's no new firmware!


It's coming out today.


----------



## Luhz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *f0rld*
> 
> Im planning to buy a kinzu v2 pro but im a really low sensitivy player (57cm/360) and im wondering if im going to hit the kinzu v2 pro's malfunction speed ever?


Wouldn't recommend the way it is now.

Playing at 37cm/360 I was easily hitting the malfunction speed all the time.


----------



## senna89

kana have anti-sweat surface ?


----------



## CdnToothpaste

Got my Kana a few days ago. No firmware update yet.

Few comments:
800CPI, I would say, is the ACTUAL max - hoping the firmware update somehow improves this, but tracking is bad after that...atrocious really.
I don't get the jumpbug at 800CPI, 1600 on the other hand does.
Haven't had a problem with sweat on the mouse. It has a nice smooth rubber coating, I like it.
Mouse feet are garbage. I thought I could live with them at first, but my corepads just came in and well, you really have to replace the stock ones if you get this mouse.
No comment on the scroll wheel, I have a thinkpad and never use it (trackpoint!).


----------



## MyvTeddy

I just got my SS Kinzu V2 pro and I was wondering how do you check for the firmware/if theres any updates?


----------



## lalle

sad that i can only play without drivers







when i install the kana driver, the mouse feeling is totally strange


----------



## Huff

When you install the SteelSeries Engine, it also comes with the SteelSeries Firmware Repair Tool. You can look for updates with that; check for it under the SteelSeries folder in the Start Menu.


----------



## f0rld

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luhz*
> 
> Wouldn't recommend the way it is now.
> Playing at 37cm/360 I was easily hitting the malfunction speed all the time.


Oops i calculated my sensitivy wrong, the real sensitivy is 52cm, but still it didn't help my decision which mouse should i buy.


----------



## CdnToothpaste

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Huff*
> 
> When you install the SteelSeries Engine, it also comes with the SteelSeries Firmware Repair Tool. You can look for updates with that; check for it under the SteelSeries folder in the Start Menu.


Thanks for that - I was looking for updates with the steelseries engine. Is the update out yet though? Mine just reinstalled ver. 257


----------



## jung1e

So what's the verdict on the Kana after the updated firmware?


----------



## Luhz

I've been playing Quake and League of Legends since I got my Kana on Thursday and have not had any issues with it in game whatsoever. I don't know if the bugs can be ruled out enough at this point to recommend for real competitive ($ on the line) play, but otherwise I would recommend the Kana for use at 400 or 800 dpi.


----------



## jung1e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luhz*
> 
> I've been playing Quake and League of Legends since I got my Kana on Thursday and have not had any issues with it in game whatsoever. I don't know if the bugs can be ruled out enough at this point to recommend for real competitive ($ on the line) play, but otherwise I would recommend the Kana for use at 400 or 800 dpi.


Did you swap out the feet?


----------



## Luhz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jung1e*
> 
> Did you swap out the feet?


I didn't, I didn't order any extras yet.

I would recommend swapping the feet if you want a nice glide.


----------



## innov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jung1e*
> 
> So what's the verdict on the Kana after the updated firmware?


----------



## CdnToothpaste

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jung1e*
> 
> So what's the verdict on the Kana after the updated firmware?


Don't think it's out yet.

From someone/kimrom on twitter:
Quote:


> KimRom Kim Rom
> @
> @jouzeroff But it should be coming SOON. I will kill someone over this if this in any way makes it a little more okay. Again, sorry.
> 19 hours ago
> 
> KimRom Kim Rom
> @
> @jouzeroff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ((((((( I am so sorry. I never should have trusted a programmer for a timeline (without adding a buffer). I haven't received it
> 19 hours ago


----------



## Kalashnikov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> As far as I can tell, the new firmware that is supposed to be released later today actually does fix the jump bug on the Kana. I tried to reproduce the bug on this new firmware for quite some time but it seems to be completely fixed.
> Unfortunately I haven't heard any news about a new firmware for the Kinzu V2.


Good to hear that !!! At least, SS learnt something from what Razer did with DA's firmware, I should give it a try...


----------



## belowthelights

Derp does the firmware update improve tracking at cpi above 800? /crosses fingers


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *belowthelights*
> 
> Derp does the firmware update improve tracking at cpi above 800? /crosses fingers


This is with the new firmware:


----------



## MONVMENTVM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> This is with the new firmware:


These 1600 and 3200 settings are as fake as SS's UPE "Teflon" feet :/.


----------



## Sriracha

That looks like an absolute tracking disaster.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> This is with the new firmware:


lol, that looks hilarious.


----------



## Skylit

The 1600 CPI setting is "real". Pixarts 3200 CPI registry setting is just rather poor on both mice [0.5x magnification]

I regret recommending this route as maybe people would realize that Pixart's sensors aren't as great as the hype surrounding them.


----------



## belowthelights

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> The 1600 CPI setting is "real". Pixarts 3200 CPI registry setting is just rather poor on both mice [0.5x magnification]
> I regret recommending this route as maybe people would realize that Pixart's sensors aren't as great as the hype surrounding them.


The question is, can it be improved with firmware updates. If they actually fixed the jump bug then it gives me hope they can improve the tracking.


----------



## bowflex

Yes, so can anyone completely confirm that jump bug was fixed ( with paint tests )


----------



## belowthelights

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bowflex*
> 
> Yes, so can anyone completely confirm that jump bug was fixed ( with paint tests )


Derp made a post a few pages back confirming it.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bowflex*
> 
> Yes, so can anyone completely confirm that jump bug was fixed ( with paint tests )


----------



## yzefeeR

22.01.2012 3:35 AM . I've updated my Kana mouse from the SS Repair Tool. I even redownloaded the SS Engine and reinstalled it. The jump-bug is still there. SS Engine version: 2.1.744.36699 / Kana Mouse firmware version: 257.

Is this the update? Or it isn't released yet?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yzefeeR*
> 
> 22.01.2012 3:35 AM . I've updated my Kana mouse from the SS Repair Tool. I even redownloaded the SS Engine and reinstalled it. The jump-bug is still there. SS Engine version: 2.1.744.36699 / Kana Mouse firmware version: 257.
> Is this the update? Or it isn't released yet?


The new firmware that I'm using shows up as 259 so they haven't released anything yet.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*


Yes!


----------



## murash

Hmmm...mine also shows SS Engine version: 2.1.744.36699 / Kana Mouse firmware version: 257. I have also updated the firmware via SteelSeries Firmware Repair Tool.


----------



## lisward

Is it possible for them to improve the tracking via firmware updates?


----------



## belowthelights

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lisward*
> 
> Is it possible for them to improve the tracking via firmware updates?


I really want to know this as well.


----------



## bowflex

wow thanks


----------



## Woundman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> This is with the new firmware:


Hey Derp,

What polling rate were you using for this? If you were using 1000hz, could you please redo the test with a polling rate of 125hz?

Thanks!


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *murash*
> 
> Hmmm...mine also shows SS Engine version: 2.1.744.36699 / Kana Mouse firmware version: 257. I have also updated the firmware via SteelSeries Firmware Repair Tool.


The new firmware is not available to everyone yet.
259 is the version you want.


----------



## innov

Ok I guess (=hope) we can now rule the jump bug out of the cons of this mouse. How about the buttons? People said the buttons are really loud but I am more concerned about the feel. Specifically, which one of these two, Zowie AM and SS Kana, has buttons closer to the easy to press feel of Logitech and Razer mice?


----------



## ich1ban

What are the buttons on the Kana like in relation to the Zowie AM? I have the Zowie AM and have noticed that it is not possible to spam the pistols properly in CS1.6/Source/other FPS's

Cannot shoot as fast as the IE1.1/Sensei for pistols


----------



## Luhz

I don't have the Zowie AM, but my Kana has stiffer buttons than all of my other mice (G5, TT Black, Lachesis, Abyssus, Kinzu, Kinzu V2 Pro, WMO).

Also, does anyone know what UPE stands for on the Steelseries marketing for the mousefeet? I'm guessing some kind of Polyethylene, which basically means plastic, but I've always been curious.


----------



## MONVMENTVM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luhz*
> 
> I don't have the Zowie AM, but my Kana has stiffer buttons than all of my other mice (G5, TT Black, Lachesis, Abyssus, Kinzu, Kinzu V2 Pro, WMO).
> Also, does anyone know what UPE stands for on the Steelseries marketing for the mousefeet? I'm guessing some kind of Polyethylene, which basically means plastic, but I've always been curious.


Yeah it's Ultrahigh density [...] Polyethylene. They do last longer than Teflon feet for sure, but the difference in glide is also very noticeable.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luhz*
> 
> I don't have the Zowie AM, but my Kana has stiffer buttons than all of my other mice (G5, TT Black, Lachesis, Abyssus, Kinzu, Kinzu V2 Pro, WMO).
> Also, does anyone know what UPE stands for on the Steelseries marketing for the mousefeet? I'm guessing some kind of Polyethylene, which basically means plastic, but I've always been curious.


I think they wouldn't use the trademark name "teflon", if it wasn't legal, so it can only be one of these two other materials, when it obv. is not PTFE:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teflon_%28disambiguation%29


----------



## fasti

Kinzu v2 pro Tracking and lifting is immensely better than Xai at 400cpi ~15cm/360


----------



## FLYAWAY8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fasti*
> 
> Kinzu v2 pro Tracking and lifting is immensely better than Xai at 400cpi ~15cm/360


Can you post some pictures in paint for me , I want to see the tracking on 400cpi/500hz.What about the sensor jump bug?Kana's been fixed with firmware what about the kinzu v2 pro?


----------



## Luhz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FLYAWAY8*
> 
> Can you post some pictures in paint for me , I want to see the tracking on 400cpi/500hz.What about the sensor jump bug?Kana's been fixed with firmware what about the kinzu v2 pro?


This is my V2 Pro at 400/500. Can't comment on the jump bug for sure but the last few paint tests I've done with mine it hasn't triggered.


----------



## fasti

My Kinzu v2 pro has the jump bug, but it's very rare and I haven't seen it in any mmo/fps game yet (I don't play rts). Also when it jumped (after many pages of A4 size paints), it was a very short jump, most likely I wouldn't even notice it.


----------



## FLYAWAY8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luhz*
> 
> This is my V2 Pro at 400/500. Can't comment on the jump bug for sure but the last few paint tests I've done with mine it hasn't triggered.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fasti*
> 
> My Kinzu v2 pro has the jump bug, but it's very rare and I haven't seen it in any mmo/fps game yet (I don't play rts). Also when it jumped (after many pages of A4 size paints), it was a very short jump, most likely I wouldn't even notice it.


Thanks guys


----------



## fasti

400cpi 500hz on S&S


----------



## FLYAWAY8

What about the malfunction speed , what is you're sensitivity, do you hit the malfunction speed?My sensitivity is 31.5cm/360degree the only thing that stops me from buying kinzu v2 pro is that Im affraid i will hit this speed often...


----------



## MyvTeddy

I seriously can't tell if my mouse is updated or not (or how to check for its version ;-







.

Otherwise, so far I'm having a really good time with my Kinzu V2 Pro (is there even an update for it? and whats the current firmware?) played games like league of legends (will try out FPS games later) and it's basically everything I wanted. I think I noticed a jump bug during the games.


----------



## fasti

Kinzu v2 pro 147


Slowed down on up and down movement and found bugs more easily. Started at 400cpi. Swapped to 800cpi in the end. I circled the jumps that were really off from my movement.

Not sure if those jumps, that actually make your mouse to go more upwards, are part of the jump bug or something else.

The low right corner jump went <- way, which is weird.


----------



## Luhz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FLYAWAY8*
> 
> What about the malfunction speed , what is you're sensitivity, do you hit the malfunction speed?My sensitivity is 31.5cm/360degree the only thing that stops me from buying kinzu v2 pro is that Im affraid i will hit this speed often...


You may just be on the fringe. I tested mine at 37cm/360 and I hit the malfunction speed often.

If you're going to be playing at 400/500 and 31.5cm you may be better off with the Kana, which I don't have any issues with at those settings.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MyvTeddy*
> 
> I seriously can't tell if my mouse is updated or not (or how to check for its version ;-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Otherwise, so far I'm having a really good time with my Kinzu V2 Pro (is there even an update for it? and whats the current firmware?) played games like league of legends (will try out FPS games later) and it's basically everything I wanted. I think I noticed a jump bug during the games.


You can check your firmware version by right clicking the Steelseries Engine logo on the bottom right of your windows and then click "about". Steelseries didn't say anything about a new Kinzu V2 firmware but I'm sure they're working on something.

The old Kana firmware is 257 and the one that they asked me to test drive is 259 which fixes the jump bug as far as I can tell. When they finally release the firmware it might be different.

The old Kinzu V2 pro firmware is 147 which still has the jump bug.


----------



## 337drew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fasti*


You missed at least 8 jumps =)


----------



## innov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fasti*
> 
> 
> Slowed down on up and down movement and found bugs more easily. Started at 400cpi. Swapped to 800cpi in the end. I circled the jumps that were really off from my movement.
> Not sure if those jumps, that actually make your mouse to go more upwards, are part of the jump bug or something else.
> The low right corner jump went <- way, which is weird.


This is 257 firmware yes?


----------



## cROKODILE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *337drew*
> 
> You missed at least 8 jumps =)


I noticed 15 more.


----------



## hasukka

What's the latest Kinzu v2 pro firmware? Also does the low malfunction speed vary with different mousepads? heard rumours it works great on black goliathus speed/control and dire on any mousepad with a colorful desing on it.


----------



## Luhz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> What's the latest Kinzu v2 pro firmware? Also does the low malfunction speed vary with different mousepads? heard rumours it works great on black goliathus speed/control and dire on any mousepad with a colorful desing on it.


Could be right, I tested a QCK SK Edition with mine which gave pretty disappointing malfunction rate results, maybe black pads do much better.


----------



## EthanNixon

I use both the Kana and Kinzu. More the Kana right now, since I am working on the review, but I play with a 69.27cm/360 (27~in/360) and I don't hit the malfunction speed. I've upgraded to the latest firmware (257), and I couldn't get the pixel bug to happen on 400CPI or 800CPI at 1000Hz. I could get 800CPI to replicate fairly easily before, but not now. I could never get the pixel jumping glitch to happen on 400CPI though.

I am using a SteelSeries QcK+ NaVi Edition, and am running Windows 7 64-Bit.


----------



## Luhz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EthanNixon*
> 
> I use both the Kana and Kinzu. More the Kana right now, since I am working on the review, but I play with a 69.27cm/360 (27~in/360) and I don't hit the malfunction speed. I've upgraded to the latest firmware (257), and I couldn't get the pixel bug to happen on 400CPI or 800CPI at 1000Hz. I could get 800CPI to replicate fairly easily before, but not now. I could never get the pixel jumping glitch to happen on 400CPI though.
> I am using a SteelSeries QcK+ NaVi Edition, and am running Windows 7 64-Bit.


How is the Kinzu treating you with that kind of sensitivity?


----------



## CdnToothpaste

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EthanNixon*
> 
> I use both the Kana and Kinzu. More the Kana right now, since I am working on the review, but I play with a 69.27cm/360 (27~in/360) and I don't hit the malfunction speed. I've upgraded to the latest firmware (257), and I couldn't get the pixel bug to happen on 400CPI or 800CPI at 1000Hz. I could get 800CPI to replicate fairly easily before, but not now. I could never get the pixel jumping glitch to happen on 400CPI though.
> I am using a SteelSeries QcK+ NaVi Edition, and am running Windows 7 64-Bit.


Isn't 257 the old/stock firmware? 259 is the new one that's yet to be released.


----------



## glenn37216

Derp

is it possible to post your firmware here so we can try it out ? Or are you bound to some terms where you cant share it ?


----------



## EthanNixon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luhz*
> 
> How is the Kinzu treating you with that kind of sensitivity?


I played a little deathmatch, and it seemed to fair as well as the Kana. The teflon mouse feet feel like it's a lot faster though, and I can achieve malfunction more, but that is probably to do more with the adjusted sensor than the glides.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CdnToothpaste*
> 
> Isn't 257 the old/stock firmware? 259 is the new one that's yet to be released.


Haven't the slightest idea. I plugged in my Kana, it updated through the SteelSeries software, and then I continued with my review.


----------



## hasukka

you own both, the kana and kinzu v2 pro am I right? Im looking for a mouse that has very high perfenct control/malfunction speed (so the mouse doesnt hit neg accel or start doing spastic moves when i move it fast). I tested the kinzu v2 pro at two of my mates, with qck tyloo it skipped like crazy, but with goliathus fragged edition control i couldnt hit the malfunction speed by some reason.


----------



## glenn37216

Just updated my Kana...so far so good.. no jump bug for me with the 259 firmware.









My mouse feet should be in by this Wed.. until then I think I'm going to shelve this thing . The feet are causing drag on my 9hd.


----------



## yzefeeR

My Kana still dosen't updates.


----------



## ich1ban

Thinking about soldering Omron switches into the Kana and AM, can you tell me what I would need for a simple and quick job for someone who hasn't soldered before?

Is something like this fine?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pro-30W-Soldering-Iron-Kit-Solder-Stand-Sucker-bits-Electric-AU-plug-/190622280346?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item2c61f92a9a#ht_1250wt_1163

And I will just take the Omron micro switches out of my old Intellimice 1.1?

Thanks!


----------



## glenn37216

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yzefeeR*
> 
> My Kana still dosen't updates.


i had to re-download the software to get mine to update. I've sinced sold the mouse but havent shipped it just yet. Worse tracking I've ever seen. I'm done with Steel Series mice. Too cheap for me.

- Gone back to my trusty 6yr old G3. Tracks like a beast !


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> Thinking about soldering Omron switches into the Kana and AM, can you tell me what I would need for a simple and quick job for someone who hasn't soldered before?
> Is something like this fine?
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pro-30W-Soldering-Iron-Kit-Solder-Stand-Sucker-bits-Electric-AU-plug-/190622280346?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item2c61f92a9a#ht_1250wt_1163
> And I will just take the Omron micro switches out of my old Intellimice 1.1?
> Thanks!


If you ask me, i'd say you need this for an easy and SAFE job:

-heat adjustible soldering station
-some tool which holds the pcb while you work on it (third-hand)
-solder with flux core
-desolder pump as seen on the set you wanted to get
-new microswitches

It can be difficult to desolder switches from another mouse, because some seconds too much heat can destroy the switch already.
Unfortunatly soldering isn't the piece of cake one would guess.


----------



## LoveKnight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glenn37216*
> 
> Just updated my Kana...so far so good.. no jump bug for me with the 259 firmware.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My mouse feet should be in by this Wed.. until then I think I'm going to shelve this thing . The feet are causing drag on my 9hd.


Look like there are a lot of jitters. By the way could you please check acceleration and prediction. I used to have a DeathAdder 3.5G but I did not like the shape of it so I sold it couple months ago and I am now looking for a better mouse. My candidates now are Zowie AM and newer Logitech G400







. Thanks!


----------



## belowthelights

They definitely fixed the jump bug but the tracking is still crap above 800 cpi. Hopefully they fix that.


----------



## Derp

I'm glad to see that Steelseries finally made the Kana firmware available but with an added bonus of including the Kinzu V2 firmware update along with it.

The new Kinzu V2 Pro firmware is 149

The new Kana firmware is 259

If you check the firmware and it says something lower and it refuses to update then uninstall the Steelseries engine and reinstall it with the mouse plugged in and it should update it for you. My beta Kana refused to update even after trying the firmware repair tool and checking for device/engine updates but a reinstall flashed it for me.

Now neither of these mice suffer from the jump bug.


----------



## thuNDa

Good news, then these mouses are usable at last(<=800DPI).








BTW, how were the DPI-steps above 800DPI on the Kinzu v2 then?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> Good news, then these mouses are usable at last(<=800DPI).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, how were the DPI-steps above 800DPI on the Kinzu v2 then?


1600 is fine, 3200 is fail. The Kinzu V2 Pro is still stuck with Intellimouse like perfect control speed though







.


----------



## innov

Meh, I'm finding it hard to decide between better switches (v2 pro) and better malfunction speed (Kana)


----------



## royalkilla408

So since the bug is fixed. Which mouse would you guys recommend between G400 (v2) or Kana? Which is better for low, mid, or high sensitivity? Which has better feet? Thanks!

I have the new G400 and the tracking is really good. I just like the intellimouse shape much better. Not sure to go with Kana or stick with G400.


----------



## Nivity

I have been waiting for kana since I saw it, but tbh it seems like a fail in buildquality, switches etc.

I got a question about the Kinz v2 Pro.
Can you use the "dpi" button as a "back" command like normal 5 button mouses?
On My logitech G1 the dpi button works as Back without drivers installed, is it the same for kinzu?

Can't windows without it !

Still interested in kana though, since its all glossy, been missing that since explorer, tired of all rubber crap


----------



## 337drew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *innov*
> 
> Meh, I'm finding it hard to decide between better switches (v2 pro) and better malfunction speed (Kana)


I found the D2FC-F-7Ns to be easier to control bursts in FPS games vs the TTCs. Good luck in your decision.


----------



## srftw

*GUYS DONT WORRY THE FIRMWARE HAS BEEN RELEASED.... (recently) , happy gaming guys, gotta love steelseries!*


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> 1600 is fine, 3200 is fail. The Kinzu V2 Pro is still stuck with Intellimouse like perfect control speed though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


is it possible for the v2 pro to be updated so that the perfect control speed is as good as Kana ?


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> 1600 is fine, 3200 is fail. The Kinzu V2 Pro is still stuck with Intellimouse like perfect control speed though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Those who like to play with highsens should get the kinzu v2 then, and those who like to play lowsens should get the kana.


----------



## 337drew

It's too bad the Kinzu v2 Pro only comes in a glossy finish =\


----------



## MONVMENTVM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *337drew*
> 
> It's too bad the Kinzu v2 Pro only comes in a glossy finish =\


This ^ :/


----------



## ich1ban

You could swap out the shell with the old kinzu if possible







I think a lot of ppl have the old version since they are so cheap and there is an even cheaper OEM version


----------



## MONVMENTVM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> You could swap out the shell with the old kinzu if possible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think a lot of ppl have the old version since they are so cheap and there is an even cheaper OEM version


Yeah thought about that too, but it's possible that they've changed a little internally. Otherwise the more extreme variant would be to buy a V2 and a V2 Pro, swap the shells and sell the V2 as a V2 Special Glossy Edition on ebay for twice the original price







.


----------



## EthanNixon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> you own both, the kana and kinzu v2 pro am I right? Im looking for a mouse that has very high perfenct control/malfunction speed (so the mouse doesnt hit neg accel or start doing spastic moves when i move it fast). I tested the kinzu v2 pro at two of my mates, with qck tyloo it skipped like crazy, but with goliathus fragged edition control i couldnt hit the malfunction speed by some reason.


Kana has a higher malfunction speed, I can tell with just deathmatching at various sensitivities. According to Enotus, the Kana has an average malfunction rate of 3.7m/s, which is acceptable in my opinion. I've deathmatched quite often with the Kana with a really low sensitivity and haven't noticed any malfunctions yet.

400CPI
1.5 in-game (CS:S)
6 Windows

That is a pretty low sensitivity, and I think I could go down to about 1.3/1.2 before I notice malfunction speeds.


----------



## Kalashnikov

As a fan of SS, it's hard to say this but why they can release these craps to the market. Lots of bugs, testers and feedbacks just for fun, using a bad sensor - why not 3090, are they trying to be different from the others or simply the profit ?

Sorry for the Kana's design because it's great but the inside...








Anyway, I'll wait a little more time if they fix st...


----------



## MONVMENTVM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kalashnikov*
> 
> As a fan of SS, it's hard to say this but why they can release these craps to the market. Lots of bugs, testers and feedbacks just for fun, using a bad sensor - why not 3090, are they trying to be different from the others or simply the profit ?
> Sorry for the Kana's design because it's great but the inside...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, I'll wait a little more time if they fix st...


It's pretty sure about the profit and it's also interesting to see that some companies selling their mice even at lower prices have a much higher quality than the big ones. See switches, mouse wheel encoders, feet...


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> You could swap out the shell with the old kinzu if possible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think a lot of ppl have the old version since they are so cheap and there is an even cheaper OEM version


The OEM version has no grip coating tho, just textured plastic(everywhere).


----------



## piskooooo

Maybe it's placebo but after the 259 update playing at 800cpi on the Kana feels overall smoother.


----------



## paskanmyivat

after updating firmware on Kinzu v2 Pro it got even worse









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgD5PG8ARLE
400cpi / 500hz


----------



## royalkilla408

Since they fixed the bug on the Kana... Which one would you guys pick? G400v2 or Kana? and Why?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *royalkilla408*
> 
> Since they fixed the bug on the Kana... Which one would you guys pick? G400v2 or Kana? and Why?


If you think of them both as 800CPI mice then they both have a very high perfect control speed, higher than anyone really needs. I would pick the G400 personally.

Why?

G400
$38
3 year warranty
TEFLON feet
Omron switches
Better sensor that can actually track at its higher CPI steps without skipping pixels.

Kana
$50
1 year warranty
Awful plastic feet that DO NOT glide on cloth pads
TTC switches

The Kana doesn't really seem like a good deal when you factor in the details. SS went cheap and want more money, Logitech went.... ugh.... normal? and are asking for a fair price.


----------



## chrashz

As far as i am aware new firmware has been released. The mice work fine now, it was just a small technical hitch! http://steelseries.com/support/downloads#mice find it here guys


----------



## piskooooo

The Kana feet are really bad lol, mine are starting to wear down already and I've only had the mouse for like two weeks.


----------



## Luhz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> If you think of them both as 800CPI mice then they both have a very high perfect control speed, higher than anyone really needs. I would pick the G400 personally.
> Why?
> G400
> $38
> 3 year warranty
> TEFLON feet
> Omron switches
> Better sensor that can actually track at its higher CPI steps without skipping pixels.
> Kana
> $50
> 1 year warranty
> Awful plastic feet that DO NOT glide on cloth pads
> TTC switches
> The Kana doesn't really seem like a good deal when you factor in the details. SS went cheap and want more money, Logitech went.... ugh.... normal? and are asking for a fair price.


Would have to agree with all of the above. The only remaining thing to decide is which shape is most comfortable to you.

Despite everything mentioned, I don't like the G400 shape, so I'm sticking with my Kana for now.


----------



## jung1e

Seems like AM vs G400v2 might be a better comparison at least then?


----------



## royalkilla408

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> If you think of them both as 800CPI mice then they both have a very high perfect control speed, higher than anyone really needs. I would pick the G400 personally.
> Why?
> G400
> $38
> 3 year warranty
> TEFLON feet
> Omron switches
> Better sensor that can actually track at its higher CPI steps without skipping pixels.
> Kana
> $50
> 1 year warranty
> Awful plastic feet that DO NOT glide on cloth pads
> TTC switches
> The Kana doesn't really seem like a good deal when you factor in the details. SS went cheap and want more money, Logitech went.... ugh.... normal? and are asking for a fair price.


Thanks for the reply. I love the intellimouse grip so I thought maybe I'll buy Kana, but from what you told me I'll keep my G400v2. The shape of G400 is not bad but not as nice as an intellimouse to me but I can wait till they make a Kana v2. Thanks!


----------



## HaiiYaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> If you think of them both as 800CPI mice then they both have a very high perfect control speed, higher than anyone really needs. I would pick the G400 personally.
> Why?
> G400
> $38
> 3 year warranty
> TEFLON feet
> Omron switches
> Better sensor that can actually track at its higher CPI steps without skipping pixels.
> Kana
> $50
> 1 year warranty
> Awful plastic feet that DO NOT glide on cloth pads
> TTC switches
> The Kana doesn't really seem like a good deal when you factor in the details. SS went cheap and want more money, Logitech went.... ugh.... normal? and are asking for a fair price.


In other countries than USA they are actually about the same price.

For me it wouldn't be a hard choice as I won't use 3200dpi ever so it comes down to shape and weight. Here the kana clearly wins for me.


----------



## jung1e

Seems the jump bugs fixed now with new firmware but has anyone experienced this with new firmware?




I know it was posted somewhere in this post and was just curious if anyone else still had this problem, and apparently it happens even if hes using an all black mousepad.


----------



## ich1ban

Dunno if it's related, or if anyone has noticed this -
majority of mice do not track properly when the pad is turned sideways, the only mouse i've tried that can track at high speeds when the pad is turned sideways is the Zowie AM

Mice tested - 1.1/3.0, Sensei/Xai, Kinzu
get very very low malfunction speed when the pads are turned sideways
Pads tested - QcK, Puretrak Talent, Goliathus, Titan


----------



## belowthelights

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HaiiYaa*
> 
> In other countries than USA they are actually about the same price.
> For me it wouldn't be a hard choice as I won't use 3200dpi ever so it comes down to shape and weight. Here the kana clearly wins for me.


Keep in mind that tracking is crap at 1600dpi as well which is quite a common setting for rts players. Also, these days with how big resolutions are getting you really want the option to have good tracking at higher dpi just for future proofing imo.


----------



## HaiiYaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *belowthelights*
> 
> Keep in mind that tracking is crap at 1600dpi as well which is quite a common setting for rts players. Also, these days with how big resolutions are getting you really want the option to have good tracking at higher dpi just for future proofing imo.


Resolutions aren't getting any higher for the screen sizes. For up to 26inch the resolution won't get any higher than 1920*1200pixels


----------



## Riou

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HaiiYaa*
> 
> Resolutions aren't getting any higher for the screen sizes. For up to 26inch the resolution won't get any higher than 1920*1200pixels


Apple is trying to push LCD manufacturers to build high DPI screens. I guess we will cross that bridge when the time comes for high DPI screens.


----------



## nikof

Which mouse you recommended to pick? Kinzu v2 pro edition or Kana?


----------



## Luhz

As it is right now I would only recommend Kinzu V2 to people who don't play any FPS and are therefore unlikely to ever hit it's low malfunction speed.

Anyone else deciding between these mice should get the Kana.


----------



## detto87

I think I'll go with the AM after all. Just seems to be the better package overall.

ich1ban (one user here on OCN) mentioned that of many mice inlcuding Sensei, Kinzu and Intellis, the AM was the only mouse that wasn't really affected if the pad is turned sideways. Speaks for the sensor imo. Performance seems to be perfectly good regarding the m/s, LOD and pretty much non-existent flaws.

The build quality Zowie delivers was always nice so far (had EC2 and Mico for testing purposes).
Mouse wheel seems to be easy to click (I hope that's true) and scrolling is fine, many companys still screw that up.

The only problems I think I might run into (but those are personal preferences) are the huano buttons and the narrow shape / \
Then again some users mentioned they are absolutely fine with the buttons or some prefer them to omrons.
And the shape is something where noone really had something negative to say about. So..

It's definitely worth a try, might be the mouse I waited for for quite some time.


----------



## cROKODILE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> The only problems I think I might run into (but those are personal preferences) are the huano buttons and the narrow shape / \
> Then again some users mentioned they are absolutely fine with the buttons or some prefer them to omrons.
> And the shape is something where noone really had something negative to say about. So..
> It's definitely worth a try, might be the mouse I waited for for quite some time.


Just something to get used to...


----------



## 337drew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luhz*
> 
> As it is right now I would only recommend Kinzu V2 to people who don't play any FPS and are therefore unlikely to ever hit it's low malfunction speed.
> 
> Anyone else deciding between these mice should get the Kana.


Palm grippers who use their whole arm to swipe might hit the malfunction speed (1.65m/s) on the Kinzu v2.
Claw grippers who use pivot off their wrist for horizontal movements, and use fingertips for vertical movements are unlikely to hit the malfunction speed of the Kinzu v2.
Finger tip grippers who only use their fingers, and play at a very high sensitivity are very unlikely to ever hit the malfunction speed.

Been using a Logitech G3 (1.3m/s malfunction) as a claw gripper (who pivots off my wrist) for something like 7 years and have never hit the malfunction speed in a game. I use a medium sens of about 13cm/360. When I flick my wrist once I do a 180. Playing with enotus running in the background, I do come close to the limits of my G3, but I don't feel it affects me in game because my sens is high enough to turn w/out the need for that speed of hand movement.

You can't not recommend these mice based on the sweeping generalization that everyone is a palm gripper or an extremely low sens player. =)

IMO playing with a low sens gimps you in game, but I know that's personal pref. People argue that low sens favors hit scan weapons like rail guns and sniper rifles, but I'd argue that you gimp your short range play due to slower turns limited by your arm speed. I digress... it's all personal pref, and not everyone is using the same grip, and style of swipe. You can't blindly recommend a mouse w/out knowing what kind of style they play.


----------



## detto87

And you can't generalize that fast swipe players are palm grippers.









Anyway, I see your point. Of course not everybody needs such a high malfunction rate or perfect control speed. But we're speaking about gaming grade products, even going so far by opening up mice and talking about sensor specific flaws and whatnot.

So the performance regarding speed and perfect tracking in quick movements is actually quite important. Not as much to everybody, but look at it from the other side: if every mice would have like 20m/s this would be a dead topic, so everybody could use any mouse. But as this is not the case obiously one has to give critic or praise to these different malfunction rates.


----------



## nikof

So what would be better mouse on counterstrike 1.6? Kinzu v2 Pro or kana?


----------



## thuNDa

kana!


----------



## nikof

hmm, but why not kinzu v2 pro?


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nikof*
> 
> hmm, but why not kinzu v2 pro?


because it freaks out when you move it too fast and i suppose you don't play 1.6 with highsens, do you?


----------



## Nivity

do the v2 pro really have lower malfunction then intellimouse 1.1? or explorer 3.0 etc?

How much does it differ from the normal kinzu (not pro)


----------



## Luhz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> do the v2 pro really have lower malfunction then intellimouse 1.1? or explorer 3.0 etc?
> How much does it differ from the normal kinzu (not pro)


I think Kinzu V2 has higher perfect control than a 1.1, but has lower malfunction speed.

I can play with a WMO and I get negative acceleration, which is manageable. I can't play with a Kinzu V2 because I get malfunction.

EDIT:

I installed the 149 firmware for my Kinzu V2 and it seems to have made a huge difference. I don't get the crazy malfunction problems I had before with it, and I got Enotus to read up to 2.52m/s with it using 400/1000 settings. Pretty impressed with the change.


----------



## jung1e

Do you need to keep the drivers installed to fix the jump bug?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jung1e*
> 
> Do you need to keep the drivers installed to fix the jump bug?


No.


----------



## majkool

Can someone do a photos like this one but from newer Kana revision?
http://goo.gl/U8c3M


----------



## bowflex

guys, what is lift off distance of kana?
and the second question prediction of kana is low like on abyssus (for example) or medium like on mx518 ?


----------



## Skylit

1)Around 2.5mm from what I can remember.

2) In between both of those mice.


----------



## bowflex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> 1)Around 2.5mm from what I can remember.
> 2) In between both of those mice.


Thanks for answer )


----------



## nikof

So which mouse is better to play cs 1.6? Kinzu v2 pro edition or Kana?


----------



## FLYAWAY8

Is there somebody that used kinzu V1 and now use kinzu V2 Pro?Please make a comparison about the malfunction speed on razer goliathus control if possible.Is it higher or lower?If I was not hitting the malfunction speed on V1 would I hit it on V2 Pro?Which of those two has higher perfect control speed?


----------



## nikof

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nikof*
> 
> So which mouse is better to play cs 1.6? Kinzu v2 pro edition or Kana?


Please answer quickly..


----------



## HaiiYaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nikof*
> 
> So which mouse is better to play cs 1.6? Kinzu v2 pro edition or Kana?


most likely the kana because of the higher perfect control speed


----------



## Nivity

Think ill try the kana with the corepad kinzu feat.

I love my DeathAdder to tears but its just to big and heavy.
My G400 is amazing with tracking as the old MX518 but the shape makes my hand hurt.

And tbh there is no other mouse out there thats lightweight with sidebuttons.

The Xai / Sensei are both to heavy aswell.

I would LOVE however a new Logitech G3. Or an Ambidextrous mouse with 2 sidebuttons left side and non on right.

Optical sensor like G400 with G3 body but added 1 extra button would be pure orgasm !


----------



## jung1e

What switches do the scrollwheel and side buttons do the Kana use? OR is it all TTCS all around?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jung1e*
> 
> What switches do the scrollwheel and side buttons do the Kana use? OR is it all TTCS all around?


See this post : http://www.overclock.net/t/1183274/kinzu-v2-kinzu-v2-pro-and-kana/460#post_16068273

TTC for all but the side buttons which are Kailh.


----------



## jung1e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> See this post : http://www.overclock.net/t/1183274/kinzu-v2-kinzu-v2-pro-and-kana/460#post_16068273
> TTC for all but the side buttons which are Kailh.


Thanks, and how do the Kailh switches feel?


----------



## innov

This so hard I just can't decide whether to buy Kana or Zowie AM








It's mostly about the buttons, most people say AM's switches are harder to press but they still allegedly feel better than Kana's.
Then again I got kind of scared by that one AM user who said he finds shooting pistols fast in CS 1.6 hard and fatiguing to the fingers.
I'm also sort of concerned about the / \ shape but I have no idea if it really is bad or not.

Can any verdict be made between these 2 mice?

Also, does this still happen with v. 259 FW?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT12vgOhYJk


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *innov*
> 
> This so hard I just can't decide whether to buy Kana or Zowie AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's mostly about the buttons, most people say AM's switches are harder to press but they still allegedly feel better than Kana's.


They don't. The TTCs on Kana feel better imo. They are both inferior to Omrons though, i guess it's all about personal preferences.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *innov*
> 
> I'm also sort of concerned about the / \ shape but I have no idea if it really is bad or not.


You never used an IMO 1.1? If you were fine with that one you'll have no problem with AM.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *innov*
> 
> Also, does this still happen with v. 259 FW?


It will never happen in game. That guy has ultra low sensitivity and swipes ultra fast. I can guarantee you won't hit those speeds in game, unless you have a sens like 70 cm/360.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *innov*
> 
> Can any verdict be made between these 2 mice?


No. You can compare the sensors, but shape, size and feel of switches is all about personal preferences.


----------



## 337drew

What's the hold up on the red Kinzu v2's? I wanna test drive it..


----------



## innov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> -


Thanks for your post, looks like AM is out of the question then because easy to press buttons are a big factor for me when it comes to finding a mouse comfortable to use. I guess the fight is between Kana and EC2 then since I don't mind prediction and use low dpi. Someone here claimed that Zowie had started using Huano switches on the newer EC batches, surely that's not true?


----------



## kaingosu

Actually i heard that only the first batch used Omrons. After that they all had Huano switches. Bad decision from Zowie if you ask me.


----------



## innov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> Actually i heard that only the first batch used Omrons. After that they all had Huano switches. Bad decision from Zowie if you ask me.


Is there a source or proof on this? I hope it's not true


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *innov*
> 
> Is there a source or proof on this? I hope it's not true


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DNR*
> 
> We are not using Omrons in any of our mice. We are using our own custom developed switches to ensure that we get the quality and click-feel that we want.


and
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DNR*
> 
> I just consulted with our technicians, it is correct that the first production (perhaps second as well) of EC had the Omrons because our factory got the switches mixed up in the assembly.


DNR = Danny Ramkvist. The Chief Marketing Officer of ZOWIE GEAR


----------



## innov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> DNR = Danny Ramkvist. The Chief Marketing Officer of ZOWIE GEAR


Damn. Are the Huano switches possibly different in EC1 and EC2 then since I've never heard anyone complain about their buttons being too stiff whereas that's a relatively common complaint about AM and Mico?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *innov*
> 
> Damn. Are the Huano switches possibly different in EC1 and EC2 then since I've never heard anyone complain about their buttons being too stiff whereas that's a relatively common complaint about AM and Mico?


No idea. I purchased and returned an EC2 but since it still had the wheel bug it must have been one with omrons which felt very soft in the EC2 shell.


----------



## fasti

What's the material on the side on Kana? Same as kinzu v2?

Or can you perhaps use the buttons to lift the mouse?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fasti*
> 
> What's the material on the side on Kana? Same as kinzu v2?
> Or can you perhaps use the buttons to lift the mouse?


Textured plastic on both versions of the Kana. I never had a problem lifting it.


----------



## innov

I'll be ordering a white Kana and some extra mouse feet. Are the Corepad Kinzu feet good for Kana?


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *innov*
> 
> I'll be ordering a white Kana and some extra mouse feet. Are the Corepad Kinzu feet good for Kana?


yes.


----------



## soccerwing19

So I am going to be getting a kinzu v2 pro soon. Will a QcK mouse pad work just fine with it? Also would you recommend I order extra mouse feet? If so which mouse feet would you recommend?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *innov*
> 
> I'll be ordering a white Kana and some extra mouse feet. Are the Corepad Kinzu feet good for Kana?


Yes. I put some on my black Kana and the glide is more than fixed. I'm still shocked that Steelseries refused to sell the $50 Kana with teflon feet.


----------



## innov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Yes. I put some on my black Kana and the glide is more than fixed. I'm still shocked that Steelseries refused to sell the $50 Kana with teflon feet.


Did you remove the original feet or did you place the corepads on top of them?


----------



## minimodman

anyone have issues with kana and a hien hard pad? i might pick up a kana as well.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *innov*
> 
> Did you remove the original feet or did you place the corepads on top of them?


I removed the original plastic feet and replaced them with the Corepad teflon feet.


----------



## jung1e

Also which HZ and DPI combo gave the best tracking speeds?


----------



## ich1ban

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *innov*
> 
> This so hard I just can't decide whether to buy Kana or Zowie AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's mostly about the buttons, most people say AM's switches are harder to press but they still allegedly feel better than Kana's.
> Then again I got kind of scared by that one AM user who said he finds shooting pistols fast in CS 1.6 hard and fatiguing to the fingers.
> I'm also sort of concerned about the / \ shape but I have no idea if it really is bad or not.
> Can any verdict be made between these 2 mice?
> Also, does this still happen with v. 259 FW?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT12vgOhYJk


I can take a youtube video or something if you require proof, you simply can't shoot as fast with the Huano switches in the AM. You will definitely notice the delay and it will mess with your game if you are used to spamming the USP and controlling the recoil. The delay feels weird is definitely a disadvantage.

In fact i've spammed the m1 button so much that it actually sits lower than the m2 button by half a millimetre now on my AM.


----------



## jung1e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> I can take a youtube video or something if you require proof, you simply can't shoot as fast with the Huano switches in the AM. You will definitely notice the delay and it will mess with your game if you are used to spamming the USP and controlling the recoil. The delay feels weird is definitely a disadvantage.
> In fact i've spammed the m1 button so much that it actually sits lower than the m2 button by half a millimetre now on my AM.


I would actually like to see that if its not too much of a hassle, if not thats fine too. I guess you can post it in the AM review thread


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> I can take a youtube video or something if you require proof, you simply can't shoot as fast with the Huano switches in the AM. You will definitely notice the delay and it will mess with your game if you are used to spamming the USP and controlling the recoil. The delay feels weird is definitely a disadvantage.
> In fact i've spammed the m1 button so much that it actually sits lower than the m2 button by half a millimetre now on my AM.


I can shoot just as fast with the AM. It just feels a little more tactile to me. It certainly doesn't mess with my game.


----------



## Zhuni

Just tried my AM next to all my other mice and its basically exactly the same speed for me. After using the AM for a bit my other mice buttons feel mushy though


----------



## end0rphine

yeh I can spam buttons at the same time, just requires ALOT more force. This increase in force means I need to grip harder, or the mouse will be uncontrollable due to the constant force spam, and is not ideal.


----------



## Vikhr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zhuni*
> 
> Just tried my AM next to all my other mice and its basically exactly the same speed for me. After using the AM for a bit my other mice buttons feel mushy though


It's the same for me, I pulled out my Deathadder and the main mouse buttons on that felt very mushy. I just really like the tactile feedback the switches on the AM provide, I can also click it just as fast as I could with my other mice.


----------



## Kalashnikov

So Derp, in ur point of view, is Kana good for now ? I mean did what SS do help with the bugs such as jump pixel ?
Could u show me what've been fixed and what bugs still exist now on the Kana. Thanks.


----------



## yzefeeR

So,

I've got a friend who works at a computers store in Romania who also imports SteelSeries products here in my country. Yesterday i told this friend about this situation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT12vgOhYJk and then he talked @ SteelSeries and sent me this message:

*Yes, we were aware of the issue and now it should be fixed.* Please see below:

SteelSeries has released a new version of the SteelSeries Engine to the general public.

About SSE v2.1.745
SSE v2.1.745 fixes two issues discovered with Kana and Kinzu v2 mice via a Firmware Upgrade. In particular, the two issues that have been addressed are as follows:
• Tracking issue - Moving the mouse up and down in a perfectly straight line at high speeds could cause the mouse to lose its tracking temporarily; causing the cursor to jump to the left or right.
• Scroll Wheel Jump - Scrolling the mouse wheel up or down at extremely high speeds can cause a jump in scrolling in the opposite direction

Both issues have been fixed and tested thoroughly internally and externally in beta versions.

I hope they will fix it.

Also, anyone noticed the scroll bug? Because i did. I'm happy they fixed that too.


----------



## innov

Ok I just got the white Kana







First impression is nice apart from the glide, I ordered the Corepad skates from different shop so I'll probably get those next week.
What is a good method to remove the original mouse feet clean and easy?


----------



## 337drew

1) Carefully lift the corner of the feet with a your fingernail, a knife, or a needle. Peel off the feet and discard the crappy plastic ones.

2) Use rubbing alcohol, goo gone, or acetone to remove any sticky material left over.

3) Very lightly lay the new feet in position. Do not press them down hard until you're certain they are centered, and not high on any edges. Once you're happy with the feet position, apply pressure to get a good seal.


----------



## murash

I have also ordered skates for my Kana, actually these ones http://www.puretrak.com/products/item/24. what do you think about these? good/bad glide etc? are they better than the Kana's original crappy ones?


----------



## murash

sorry, here's the link http://www.puretrak.com/products/item/24


----------



## rvdeh

does the Kana uses exactly the same TTC switches as the kinzu 1?
asking because i've had 3 kinzu's in the past with the doubleclick problem


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *murash*
> 
> sorry, here's the link http://www.puretrak.com/products/item/24


Perfect glides are terribly high friction. In fact they are the highest friction after market skates I can think of. The HD glides are a lot better......unless you like high friction.


----------



## fasti

Noticed that the gliding was a lot better with not-so-large feets. So I just put smaller there instead. Tested on top of origionals before replacing. Needed some ducttape between so the mouse wouldn't touch from the center ( DA flashback! ).

Atleast the mousefeet won't cost so much now : ) Also the mousepad should wear down slower with less surface touch.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/newbackfeet.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/newfrontfeet.jpg

Hardpad.


----------



## yzefeeR

Lol. Why would u do that?
You're smarter than a whole engineering crew.








And don't worry, a pad won't wear out so easily. I've got a QcK mini from 07 and it's still fresh.


----------



## Nivity

The LOD on kana is really junk. 4 DVD to stop tracking.

Pure useless crap sensor.


----------



## yzefeeR

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/395684_337373656284146_100000345436100_1132500_826607964_n.jpg

Played a little with the customization. Changed the scroll wheels between them. Also, changed the mousefeet.


----------



## Luxer

Would there be a way to mod a side button on the Kinzu? I love the shape for my small hands but I miss having a side button a lot.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> The LOD on kana is really junk. 4 DVD to stop tracking.
> Pure useless crap sensor.


Tape mod it.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> The LOD on kana is really junk. 4 DVD to stop tracking.
> Pure useless crap sensor.


The Kana should be a little over 2 CD's (2.5mm) on most dark (black) surfaces. Technically pretty good compared to others.

This is more of an issue on your end. Optical technology (led+lens) isn't the best when it comes to lift off distance scattered across multiple surface types and colors.


----------



## Derp

I had a few minutes with a new Roccat Taito MTW edition and the lift off distance was higher than the G400 on every color. On blue, black and grey the lift off distance of the Kana was a little over 3 DVD's and on the small part of white it was a little over 4 DVD's.


----------



## end0rphine

Oh dear the left switch on my kana seems to be double clicking already...


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Oh dear the left switch on my kana seems to be double clicking already...


Least it's not a TTC switch. 8)


----------



## v4mp1

buy some d2f-01f? xD

bought 70 of this switches, should be enough for my whole life


----------



## stickyh

Im very interested in buying a Kana since the new firmware upgrade, but i have 3 questions:
- Is the kana ok with a finger tip grip? (mostly playing rts like sc2)?
- does the plastic the kana is made, makes you sweat?
- how does it perform at 1000 dpi?


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v4mp1*
> 
> buy some d2f-01f? xD
> bought 70 of this switches, should be enough for my whole life


I would but I just don't know how to switch the switches









Maybe next time or something.. I'm not really frustrated at the moment since I'm waiting for a different mouse anyway.


----------



## belowthelights

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stickyh*
> 
> Im very interested in buying a Kana since the new firmware upgrade, but i have 3 questions:
> - Is the kana ok with a finger tip grip? (mostly playing rts like sc2)?
> - does the plastic the kana is made, makes you sweat?
> - how does it perform at 1000 dpi?


It's great for fingertip grip and the kana doesn't make my hands sweat (though, no mice do so maybe that doesn't help you) however you can't set the kana to 1000dpi. You can only set it to 450/800/1600/3200 and all dpi above 800 has terrible tracking.


----------



## eosgreen

thought it tracked well with new firmware


----------



## belowthelights

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> thought it tracked well with new firmware


Not for me. All they fixed was the jump bug. The accuracy still sucks.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> The Kana should be a little over 2 CD's (2.5mm) on most dark (black) surfaces. Technically pretty good compared to others.
> This is more of an issue on your end. Optical technology (led+lens) isn't the best when it comes to lift off distance scattered across multiple surface types and colors.


Ok, explain why it have higher LOD then my deathadder and G400, byt far.

Tried following mousepads:
SS S&S
SS 9HD
Qpad CT
Func 1030
SS Qck heavy
SS qck+ SK+Dota edition
Razer Goliathus

On EVERY single mousepad it have higher LOD then G400 + DA.

So no its not on my end, its way worse then both those mice.

So no its not good.


----------



## detto87

So to summarize the Kana has a too high LOD, accuracy is not that good, there's one user already reporting a doubleclick problem, braided too unflexible cable,... eh need I list more?

I stay the hell away from SteelSeries for a good reason.


----------



## innov

I haven't noticed the high LOD while playing yet but does that tape fix most commonly recommended for DA work with all sensors?


----------



## Nivity

The only think I like about my kana is the shape








Build quality is poor, switches are bad, feets are plastic and pure crap, the light goes through the plastic, the cable is to stiff, Lod is to high.

Don't really know why I bought it tbh







I was curious, but its way way way worse then my DA 3G, G400.
And well its not really better then any of my other 10+ mice.

And its kinda fun since the kana + feet which are a must to even use the mouse cost 75$
The G400 cost 46$.

And the G400 is better on every single point.

Sad that SS overprice their products when they have such bad quality.

But then again the sensei Fnatic edition cost 123$ so should not be suprised.


----------



## innov

I just tested and my Kana already stops tracking at 2 CD. Pad is QcK Heavy


----------



## kaingosu

Same here. I have both versions (black and white) and they stop tracking after 2 CDs on Qck+ fnatic, Goliathus Speed and Corepad C1. The switches are not that bad. Omrons would've been nice, but they still feel better than Zowie AM's Huano (same clicky sound but less force to activate). I have to say the black version feels cheaper than the white one. The travel distance of the buttons is longer and they feel a little loose. Also the scroll wheel of the black one is stiffer. There seems to be some quality differences between batches The cable is indeed stiff, but it's also thin and the skates can be replaced thus not a big problem.
The sensor is ok overall. It doesn't feel so smooth like the A3090 in Zowie AM, but it's just as accurate. I mean it doesn't have acceleration, doesn't jitter, doesn't skip, so what exactly is the problem?
I agree that Steelseries products are overpriced though, but so are Zowie's mice. Name one mouse that is not overpriced compared to G400? On the other hand there's only a few ambidextrous mice with decent optical sensors, so i can't really afford to be that picky.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> I mean it doesn't have acceleration, doesn't jitter, doesn't skip, so what exactly is the problem?


I guess more prediction causing the tracking to feel weird? In my opinion the Pixart sensor in the Kana is inferior to the G400v2's sensor in every way including LOD.



Also more LOD numbers from my Kana, a hair over 3 DVD's on a black Artisan HIEN.


----------



## innov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I guess more prediction causing the tracking to feel weird? In my opinion the Pixart sensor in the Kana is inferior to the G400v2's sensor in every way including LOD.
> 
> Also more LOD numbers from my Kana, a hair over 3 DVD's on a black Artisan HIEN.


I think the differences on tracking between g400 and kana at 800 dpi and 1000hz are so small that it really comes down to which one's shape you prefer.
I came to Kana from a predictionless G400 and I only miss two things from G400, mouse feet and more rigid scroll wheel.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I guess more prediction causing the tracking to feel weird? In my opinion the Pixart sensor in the Kana is inferior to the G400v2's sensor in every way including LOD.


The prediction is between G400 v1 and v2, which is acceptable imo. I was talking about the Zowie AM. I don't have the G400 without prediction (only v1), but Logitech did a better job with the sensor. My AM stops tracking sometimes at lower speeds than it's malfunction. I think it has something to do with it's super low LOD.
Anyway G400 is not ambidextrous. Show me an ambidextrous mouse with a better sensor than Kana.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> Show me an ambidextrous mouse with a better sensor than Kana.


You make a good point. I definitely prefer the Kana shape to the G400 but sensor performance has a higher priority with me.

Does your AM do that on solid black surfaces?


----------



## kaingosu

I haven't tried, but it does on the Goliathus Speed (also black). I will test it with Mionix Propus tomorrow. If i press down hard on the mouse it doesn't happen anymore, but i can't get used to doing that in game. Anyway i also hate the shape so Kana is a better compromise for me. Also trying the Sensei, but i still can't get used to that laser pew pew pew


----------



## MONVMENTVM

As long as the lens of the AM has the original dimensions it probably would be possible to swap it with the original one used by the 3090 mice. You'd loose the low LoD but win back the better tracking quality on different surfaces and the original CPI steps. Worth a thought imho.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> Show me an ambidextrous mouse with a better sensor than Kana.


Abyssus springs to mind right now (as long as you get one without jitter).


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MONVMENTVM*
> 
> Abyssus springs to mind right now (as long as you get one without jitter).


I refuse to believe one exists.


----------



## jung1e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> I haven't tried, but it does on the Goliathus Speed (also black). I will test it with Mionix Propus tomorrow. If i press down hard on the mouse it doesn't happen anymore, but i can't get used to doing that in game. Anyway i also hate the shape so Kana is a better compromise for me. Also trying the Sensei, but i still can't get used to that laser pew pew pew


Shape of the G400 or AM? Also which has better tracking, AM or Kana after bug fixes? And whats the best DPi and HZ for Kana if anyone knows?


----------



## ich1ban

imo AM has the best sensor on the market along with DA, although they say malfunction speed is higher in DA although AM has a far lower LOD. I can't get my AM to malfunction on a goliathus pad although malfunctions on QcK(along with pretty much all other mice I have)


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Shape of the G400 or AM? Also which has better tracking, AM or Kana after bug fixes? And whats the best DPi and HZ for Kana if anyone knows?


AM has the better shape than the G400 imo. Can't stand the latch.
Kana's Pixart sensor is subpar compared to AM's 3090.


----------



## Nivity

I love that the M1 and M2 buttons have 2 totally different sounds aswell.
M2 is like 50% louder then M1 and also abit harder to press down.

Quality on the Kana is really subpar


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I love that the M1 and M2 buttons have 2 totally different sounds aswell.
> M2 is like 50% louder then M1 and also abit harder to press down.
> Quality on the Kana is really subpar


Well the switches are different on my AM - harder left click, easier right. On my Kana they're dead even.


----------



## ich1ban

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Well the switches are different on my AM - harder left click, easier right. On my Kana they're dead even.


same with mine rofl, I thought they were the switches but when I took off the shell, and pressed the switches with my hand, they were fairly even, although the right click is softer

although when I put on the shell, the left click seems a lot louder and harder

this is after I put on the OMRONs


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Kana's Pixart sensor is subpar compared to AM's 3090.


You'll have to elaborate.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I love that the M1 and M2 buttons have 2 totally different sounds aswell.
> M2 is like 50% louder then M1 and also abit harder to press down.
> Quality on the Kana is really subpar


The Sensei that i bought one week ago is like that. Right click is louder but easier to press. Same with my Zowie AM. I don't think it has anything to do with being subpar.


----------



## Skar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Well the switches are different on my AM - harder left click, easier right. On my Kana they're dead even.


On my kana the switches are different, i think you just got lucky -.-


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> You'll have to elaborate.
> The Sensei that i bought one week ago is like that. Right click is louder but easier to press. Same with my Zowie AM. I don't think it has anything to do with being subpar.


Guess im used to my other mice where its even.

2x DA 3g
2x Logitech G400
Logitech G1
Intellimouse 1.1
2x Explorer 3.0
Logitech MX300
SS Xai
2x M518

All of em have the same amount of force to press and sound the same.

I know your trying to defend the kana but its hard to defend something that is still quite expensive compared to the likes of G400 and still its worse on every part (not counting shape because thats nothing to do with quality)

And hell I bought my DAs 3g for 40$ each, and both working flawless after few years of being used 6-8+ hours a day.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I guess more prediction causing the tracking to feel weird? In my opinion the Pixart sensor in the Kana is inferior to the G400v2's sensor in every way including LOD.
> 
> Also more LOD numbers from my Kana, a hair over 3 DVD's on a black Artisan HIEN.


nice comparision.









This should let everyone know how prediction affects mice.


----------



## jouzeroff

hi
is there any differences between
kana @ 400dpi / 500hz
and
kana @ 400dpi / 1000hz ?

Im also going to replace those horrible mouse feet with SS Glide Kinzu
are the kinzu corepad mouse skatez alot better than the SS glide?


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jouzeroff*
> 
> hi
> is there any differences between
> kana @ 400dpi / 500hz
> and
> kana @ 400dpi / 1000hz ?
> Im also going to replace those horrible mouse feet with SS Glide Kinzu
> are the kinzu corepad mouse skatez alot better than the SS glide?


after trying the SS replacement glides now too, i can say that the corepads are better and cheaper.
the SS ones are not so bad in the long run, but at first they have sharp edges where the corepads have rounded.
and here you get one set of SS-glides for about 8€ incl. shipping and two sets of corepads for ~10€ incl. shipping.
One thing is better with the SS-glides tho, and that's the sticky surface, which allows you to remove the skates and put them back on the mouse, while the corepads have one layer of some tape from 3M, which doesn't let you remove the pads again cleanly.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Guess im used to my other mice where its even.
> 2x DA 3g
> 2x Logitech G400
> Logitech G1
> Intellimouse 1.1
> 2x Explorer 3.0
> Logitech MX300
> SS Xai
> 2x M518



I also have a G400v1, G300, WMO, IMO, Zowie EC2 and CM Xornet laying around somewhere. I'm not trying to show off, just saying if you're trying to impress me think again.
I bought Kana, Sensei and Zowie AM in January and M1-M2 feel different in all of them. Maybe something is going wrong in the production process.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I know your trying to defend the kana


Yeah, you got me. I work for Steelseries.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> but its hard to defend something that is still quite expensive compared to the likes of G400 and still its worse on every part (not counting shape because thats nothing to do with quality)


The likes of G400 and what else? I agree that the G400 is worth every penny, but that's about it. I think only the Xornet comes close to this value/money. Kana's shape is much better for my grip, it's smaller, lighter and the sensor is pretty good. I'm the kind of person that finds flaws in every mouse and the only flaws i can think of are the switches (not Omron) and the plastic skates. If you don't like it, don't buy it, but that doesn't mean it's a crappy mouse.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> 
> I also have a G400v1, G300, WMO, IMO, Zowie EC2 and CM Xornet laying around somewhere. I'm not trying to show off, just saying if you're trying to impress me think again.
> I bought Kana, Sensei and Zowie AM in January and M1-M2 feel different in all of them. Maybe something is going wrong in the production process.
> Yeah, you got me. I work for Steelseries.
> The likes of G400 and what else? I agree that the G400 is worth every penny, but that's about it. I think only the Xornet comes close to this value/money. Kana's shape is much better for my grip, it's smaller, lighter and the sensor is pretty good. I'm the kind of person that finds flaws in every mouse and the only flaws i can think of are the switches (not Omron) and the plastic skates. If you don't like it, don't buy it, but that doesn't mean it's a crappy mouse.


Why would I try to impress you lol, im not 14. Im 28. And Im not the one with pictures on my mice.

The point was that I have and have tried just about every single mouse out there(yes even the once I did not mention, those are the once I still have at home), and some have way worse quality then others.
The Kana quality is bad, no matter how you spin it.

I never said you worked for ss, get of your high horse. But you have been trying to defend the kana alot in this thread.

"dont like it, dont buy it" can't you read? I have the kana aswell, so I got all the rights to talk about it.
And I can't say its worth the money (skatez + mouse) with the build quality, switches, lod, skatez.

Your entitled to your opinion aswell as I am, and I think its a crappy mouse given the cost/quality ratio.
But then again some people pay 130$for the sensei fnatic edition. (Although the coating on the fnatic is the best I ever felt on a mouse, so sickly smooth, much better then the normal sensei)


----------



## kaingosu

I'm sorry for bothering you.


----------



## fasti

If you want to use both mice (kana+kinzu v2 pro) at the same time like me (I use left hand for browsing and general use), you need to plug them in seperate usb ports. If you use usb-hub, it seems that the mice interfere with each other making the movement jerky/non operational on kinzu.

Didn't had problems with Kinzu v2 pro + Xai with usb-hub. Tried 2 different kind of usb-hub.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Why would I try to impress you lol, im not 14. Im 28. And Im not the one with pictures on my mice.
> The point was that I have and have tried just about every single mouse out there(yes even the once I did not mention, those are the once I still have at home), and some have way worse quality then others.
> The Kana quality is bad, no matter how you spin it.
> I never said you worked for ss, get of your high horse. But you have been trying to defend the kana alot in this thread.
> "dont like it, dont buy it" can't you read? I have the kana aswell, so I got all the rights to talk about it.
> *And I can't say its worth the money (skatez + mouse) with the build quality, switches, lod, skatez.*
> *Your entitled to your opinion aswell as I am, and I think its a crappy mouse given the cost/quality ratio.*
> But then again some people pay 130$for the sensei fnatic edition. (Although the coating on the fnatic is the best I ever felt on a mouse, so sickly smooth, much better then the normal sensei)


I had a similar opinion with the beta's I received. It's unfortunate that they didn't improve on this.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> You'll have to elaborate.


The LOD is higher, the prediction is higher, and the accuracy feels weird/different (to me).
Subpar was a bit harsh I guess. The Pixart seems to be just fine otherwise. No jitter or bugs (fixed) and high m/s.


----------



## eosgreen

so both mice are a bust eh. depressing


----------



## fasti

If the lod is near it's threshold (highly different mousefeet) while still moving and tracking fine, when stopped it starts to do this:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzuv2pro_randomjitter.jpg Starting from up and jittering down. Shouldn't be a problem, as I doubt there's that high mouse feets out there, I raised mine by other means to get lod more sensitive. Just funny to see it still working fine, when you move it, but when stopped...

I find Kinzu v2 pro and Kana being the best mice so far for me. My small hands rejoice.

Some Kana pics, when I tweaked the clicks on it:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kana/kana_bottom.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kana/kana_top_1.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kana/kana_top_2.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kana/kana_wheel.jpg (a very good ~noiseless wheel)
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kana/kana_inside_1.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kana/kana_inside_2.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kana/kana_inside_3.jpg
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kana/kana_inside_4.jpg

Also opened kinzu pro v2 for the last time to make these tweaks:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33200530/kinzuv2pro/kinzu_tweaks.jpg

- Some tape rounded up on top of the switches (that I tweaked to be more sensitive) to make them touch the buttons.
- Paper in the scrollwheel to prevent the noise when moving the mouse.
- Black ~paper on top of the sensor, so the red light doesn't shoot out of the scrollwheel holes into my screen. ( Kana has this by default)


----------



## fasti

The switches in kana, they have a huuuuge gap. They really feel a lot more crappier than omrom.

When I tweaked them I just decided to put 4-5layers of tape between the switch point, instead of trying to bend it. The result was kind of good. It now feels a lot better than omrom (tweaked). : )


----------



## 337drew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fasti*
> 
> - Black ~paper on top of the sensor, so the red light doesn't shoot out of the scrollwheel holes into my screen. ( Kana has this by default)


Don't you just love how SS took the time to tape the sensor so the red doesn't bleed into the mouse shell? And.... then they fail to provide a similar solution for the LED which illuminates the wheel, bleeds light through the seams, and even through the cover itself.



GJ guys!


----------



## kaingosu

The black one is fine.





I think it's the glossy paint that reflects more light.


----------



## jung1e

damn you own both colors?


----------



## end0rphine

Gota catch 'em all


----------



## 337drew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> I think it's the glossy paint that reflects more light.


I think you just took a picture from the opposite side that the wheel LED is on. =) But yah, black probably doesn't have the same problem that the white is on. Well.. It's not exactly a problem. It's just not ascetically perfect. =)


----------



## detto87

Sensor is fine and shape too. Id lile to use the Kana but have absolutely no desire to mod the entite rest of the mouse to be acceptable. Feet, cable and buttons, that's a bit too much. Plus the price point.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jung1e*
> 
> damn you own both colors?


The white version wasn't available in my country at first, so i had to buy the black one.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *337drew*
> 
> I think you just took a picture from the opposite side that the wheel LED is on. =)


Neah, the white LED reflects on both sides (at least on my specimen)








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Sensor is fine and shape too. Id lile to use the Kana but have absolutely no desire to mod the entite rest of the mouse to be acceptable. Feet, cable and buttons, that's a bit too much. Plus the price point.




That's the way i use these non-flexible cords. The highlighted area is the only point the cable touches my desk. I can still feel the extra tension compared to Zowie's cable, but not a deal breaker imo.

I made a small video comparing the switches of AM, Kana and Sensei. Sorry for the crappy phone camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Rr4gkm35T0&feature=youtu.be

Judge for yourselves. You can clearly hear the M1 sounds different than M2 on all these mice (and feel different too). I keep hearing Kana's wheel is bad, but AM's sw is worse.


----------



## LoveKnight

I am sure you have a big right hand and these mice look like tini toys when you hold them (no offence). I think the sound from Sensei is the same but I can hear the different mouse clicking sounds from Kana and AM.


----------



## fasti

Think you can change the sound coming from these mices by adjusting voltages they get. Getting highly different sounds with usb-hub vs directly to computer.


----------



## detto87

Just by the sound comparison it remembers me of the post one user has written here, stating that after getting used to the buttons on the AM most others will feel mushy. There's some truth in it.


----------



## eosgreen

i wana try this kana out but everyones like NO ITS AWFUL SENSOR BAD

godamn man i needs a mouse :/

are the kinzu and kana using the same dpi steps? 800 1600 3200?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> i wana try this kana out but everyones like NO ITS AWFUL SENSOR BAD
> godamn man i needs a mouse :/
> are the kinzu and kana using the same dpi steps? 800 1600 3200?


Just give it a try for yourself. You can always return it.

And yes, they both have 400 - 800 - 1600 - 3200 steps. The Kana has a much higher perfect control speed but acceptable tracking only at 400 and 800 CPI. The Kinzu V2 pro has a much lower perfect control speed with acceptable tracking at 400, 800 and 1600CPI.


----------



## Rafael Vale

So I think its better for me to stay with my kinzuadder and dont bother trying neither the kana or the kinzu v2.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rafael Vale*
> 
> So I think its better for me to stay with my kinzuadder and dont bother trying neither the kana or the kinzu v2.


also doesnt everyone consider the DA to be the best sensor ever? why again are we not improving on the 3888 (think its that) is there a flaw im unaware of?

off topic just pointing out that if you have a kinzu adder isnt that like premo mouse-o


----------



## soccerwing19

hey guys. im thinking about getting a Kinzu v2 (either one) because i like the simplicity and also the size seems exactly what i am looking for (i am currently using an old logitech M-BJ58), but reading through this thread, you guys seem to dive deep into the specs of the mouse itself. is this really something i should be worried about to play starcraft 2? or should i just look at ebay posts and try to get my hands on an old kinzu?

i did give the deathadder a try, but it turned out to be too big for my hand. it did move a little fast for me (had it set to i think 1600 or 1800 dpi @ 500hz) but after doing some research, i learned that i needed to also set my Windows sensitivity to its lowest for the mouse itself to use those settings the way the are supposed to be used (had it set at about mid point on windows and about 75% in starcraft 2), but i am not sure if this is true or not.

just wondering what you guys have to say. thanks


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soccerwing19*
> 
> hey guys. im thinking about getting a Kinzu v2 (either one) because i like the simplicity and also the size seems exactly what i am looking for (i am currently using an old logitech M-BJ58), but reading through this thread, you guys seem to dive deep into the specs of the mouse itself. is this really something i should be worried about to play starcraft 2? or should i just look at ebay posts and try to get my hands on an old kinzu?
> i did give the deathadder a try, but it turned out to be too big for my hand. it did move a little fast for me (had it set to i think 1600 or 1800 dpi @ 500hz) but after doing some research, i learned that i needed to also set my Windows sensitivity to its lowest for the mouse itself to use those settings the way the are supposed to be used (had it set at about mid point on windows and about 75% in starcraft 2), but i am not sure if this is true or not.
> just wondering what you guys have to say. thanks


in starcraft 51 percent is 6/11 in windows. 6/11 is considered the only way to use a mouse since its 1:1 ratio of movement aka what you move is what happens

id try setting sc2 to 51 and windows to 6/11 then come back

the kana and kinzu use 1600 dpi where as the middle setting for the deathadder is 1800. the DA is faster but by 200 dpi so maybe its perfect for you or maybe 1600 dpi is WAY too fast and then you need to try the zowie mice such as AM or EC1/2 mice which are 1k to 1150 dpi


----------



## Huff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soccerwing19*
> 
> hey guys. im thinking about getting a Kinzu v2 (either one) because i like the simplicity and also the size seems exactly what i am looking for (i am currently using an old logitech M-BJ58), but reading through this thread, you guys seem to dive deep into the specs of the mouse itself. is this really something i should be worried about to play starcraft 2? or should i just look at ebay posts and try to get my hands on an old kinzu?
> i did give the deathadder a try, but it turned out to be too big for my hand. it did move a little fast for me (had it set to i think 1600 or 1800 dpi @ 500hz) but after doing some research, i learned that i needed to also set my Windows sensitivity to its lowest for the mouse itself to use those settings the way the are supposed to be used (had it set at about mid point on windows and about 75% in starcraft 2), but i am not sure if this is true or not.
> just wondering what you guys have to say. thanks


I think you will like the Kinzu V2 Pro for Starcraft 2. Most people are complaining about the low malfunction speed. For me, using mostly my wrist to move the mouse @ 1600 dpi, I don't have an issue with this. Generally the FPS players on here are more concerned with this since many of them are using lower sensitivities/dpi. I bought the Kinzu v2 pro to replace my Zowie mico for Starcraft 2 since I was getting annoyed with the pixel bug, the same bug SteelSeries finally fixed in the last firmware update.


----------



## ich1ban

Only change your mouse DPI settings, do not change your starcraft sensitivity under 50 and over 54, anything in between is fine, this is because the game changes your windows sensitivity when you change those values. Took me a while to realize when my Windows sensitivity kept going up 1 notch from the default 6, every time SC2 opens even after I reset it back to default windows.


----------



## Limniscate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> Only change your mouse DPI settings, do not change your starcraft sensitivity under 50 and over 54, anything in between is fine, this is because the game changes your windows sensitivity when you change those values. Took me a while to realize when my Windows sensitivity kept going up 1 notch from the default 6, every time SC2 opens even after I reset it back to default windows.


50 in sc2 is not 1:1

Set it between 51 and 54, inclusive.


----------



## ich1ban

I thought it was 50 since the default sc2 settings were at 50% when first installed and it didn't change my windows sens?

Not too sure, I use 54 and 450dpi


----------



## soccerwing19

alrighty awesome! when i save up, i guess i will give the Kinzu v2 a go and see how it works out.... right now im playing on my 32" TV until i get a computer monitor. also when i did have the deathadder, i was playing on my 17" laptop screen (recently got a gaming rig which is why i have no monitor as of yet) so im guessing that could have also affected why the deathadder's speed seemed ridiculously fast for me heh... thanks again guys


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LoveKnight*
> 
> I am sure you have a big right hand and these mice look like tini toys when you hold them










Indeed. However i still feel more comfortable using small mice.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Just by the sound comparison it remembers me of the post one user has written here, stating that after getting used to the buttons on the AM most others will feel mushy. There's some truth in it.


Some ppl like MX blacks, some like reds. Same thing with the switches imo. As a personal preference the Huano and TTC both suck, while the Omrons are perfect.


----------



## stickyh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Limniscate*
> 
> 50 in sc2 is not 1:1
> Set it between 51 and 54, inclusive.


It was true before the implementation of the check box called "mouse sensitivity", now you just have to uncheck it in the sc2 options (but having a 51-54 still work the same)


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> I thought it was 50 since the default sc2 settings were at 50% when first installed and it didn't change my windows sens?
> Not too sure, I use 54 and 450dpi


default is at 51 and it goes up new steps every 5 levels

so 51 56 61 etc


----------



## Limniscate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> I thought it was 50 since the default sc2 settings were at 50% when first installed and it didn't change my windows sens?
> Not too sure, I use 54 and 450dpi


There was a thread on TeamLiquid about how 51% is actually 1:1, not 50%.


----------



## eosgreen

is there any word about steelseries making the kana not bad? damn i wanted this mouse to be good....


----------



## haccess

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> is there any word about steelseries making the kana not bad? damn i wanted this mouse to be good....


Felt the same way since I was needing a new mouse, but I ordered a G400 instead. Maybe by the time I wear this one out SS will have a Kana V2 Pro with a better sensor, omron switches and teflon feet.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *haccess*
> 
> Felt the same way since I was needing a new mouse, but I ordered a G400 instead. Maybe by the time I wear this one out SS will have a Kana V2 Pro with a better sensor, omron switches and teflon feet.


hah well i wonder if the sensor issue is firmware or not


----------



## jouzeroff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> hah well i wonder if the sensor issue is firmware or not


what sensor issue? (sorry Im late)

Anyway, No teflon feet = it feels soooo bad in CS 1.6 on a QCK+ Fnatic mousepad. I can't even figure out the right sensitivity to use.
400dpi 500hz, windowz 6/11 => ingame between 1.4 and 1.8
I mean, I don't know why but it feels like there is some kind of accel when doing some diagonal fast move...
but it's totaly irregular... sometimes happening or not :/

I've got a Xai to compare with at same dpi/hz & sense.
There is something weird. Using the Xai, I need to lower the ingame sensitivity to reproduce the exact same kana pixels/cm move.

I just ordered 2 glide kinzu

ps: sorry for my bad english -_-


----------



## eosgreen

ppl say the sensor has terrible accuracy jouzeroff


----------



## jouzeroff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> ppl say the sensor has terrible accuracy jouzeroff


only over 800dpi right?


----------



## glenn37216

1600 and 3200 dpi are terrible too. My 6 yr old G3 is 10x more accurate than the piece of **** Kana. I don't know how anyone can call themself a serious gamer using garbage like SteelSeries has produced with their mice.

-..,. from the sensor , to the feet ... to the cheap plastic housing and crappy switches....

-Kana is pure junk.


----------



## lisward

Are the Steelseries branded Kinzu replacement mouse feet teflon, because where I live I cannot get any other brands unless I ship it in. If that's not the case then I guess I'll buy corepad skatez off ebay or smth.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lisward*
> 
> Are the Steelseries branded Kinzu replacement mouse feet teflon, because where I live I cannot get any other brands unless I ship it in. If that's not the case then I guess I'll buy corepad skatez off ebay or smth.


at least they look like teflon(very shiny after some usage on clothpad), but don't have rounded edges.
I wonder which skates they use for kinzu v2 pro.


----------



## Nivity

I shelfed my kana already.
Its just a crappy mouse in all, worse tracking then my G400 + DA (which I use the most), feet is meh I bought corepad kinzu feet at once so not a concern cept the extra cost.
But meh its so flimsy, I would crush the mouse in my hand, the plastic feels so cheap.
And the buttons are just pure crap compared to all my other mice, its like playing on a really bad rubberdome keyboard when I got a bunch of mechanical beside it.

YW for the 75$ or so SS







Atleast it can shine in the mousebox In my closet.
Steelseries are really going south with their gaming products, it seems the quality is worse and worse, or its so freaking overpriced (hello sensei + sensei fnatic).
I remember when steelseries said they did not care about maxing DPI, having lights and all that crap on their products, look where they are now.
It's all about flashy useless stuff.


----------



## shin4649

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I remember when steelseries said they did not care about maxing DPI, having lights and all that crap on their products, look where they are now.
> It's all about flashy useless stuff.


You can blame Razer and consumer ignorance for that. SS is just doing what they need to to remain competitive. However, a niche group of end-users such as ourselves suffer as a result. I'll just stick to my G400 and Xai for now.


----------



## Luhz

I think the V2 Pro feet are actually Teflon. My V2 Pro feels close to my Abyssus and my Kinzu V1 with replaced feet. The Kana feet feel like the standard Kinzu plastic feet by comparison.

Personally I would order feet from somewhere else. I'm not positive that Steelseries replacement Kinzu feet are actually Teflon and I'd hate to order them and find out they're not.


----------



## Huff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luhz*
> 
> I think the V2 Pro feet are actually Teflon. My V2 Pro feels close to my Abyssus and my Kinzu V1 with replaced feet. The Kana feet feel like the standard Kinzu plastic feet by comparison.
> Personally I would order feet from somewhere else. I'm not positive that Steelseries replacement Kinzu feet are actually Teflon and I'd hate to order them and find out they're not.


Yea my Kinzu V2 Pro glides nicely on my Artisan Hayate, I was concerned about that when I bought it.. I did however just order some kinzu corepad skatez for later in the future; mainly because I ordered them along with some g100 skates. As soon as the g100 comes in I'm taking the weight out of it immediately and replacing it with new mouse skatez.


----------



## piskooooo

The Kana sensor is fine you shouldn't really be playing at 1600/3200 DPI anyway that's a bit ridiculous. The Deathadder has bad tracking at 3200 DPI along with an even higher LOD than the Kana, and both Razer and Logitech use "cheap" plastic so it just comes down to fanboyism.


----------



## hza

I don't know about Kinzu v2 Pro, but my old Kinzu feels cheaper than my G500 and also G400. Just a personal point of view though.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *piskooooo*
> 
> The Kana sensor is fine you shouldn't really be playing at 1600/3200 DPI anyway that's a bit ridiculous. The Deathadder has bad tracking at 3200 DPI along with an even higher LOD than the Kana, and both Razer and Logitech use "cheap" plastic so it just comes down to fanboyism.


ehm what.

1. The feet on my MX518, G400 and DA 3G are WAY better then my useless Kana feet.
Maybe you mean OEM logitech mice but the G400+DA is in Kanas price league, so I compare those.
And the fact that they are very popular mice overall.

2. The LOD is higher on my kana then on the other mice mentioned above.

So, no I don't agree one bit.
And the buttons are way better then DA + G400/518 then Kana.

Nothing at all to do with fanboycrap.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> ehm what.
> 1. The feet on my MX518, G400 and DA 3G are WAY better then my useless Kana feet.
> Maybe you mean OEM logitech mice but the G400+DA is in Kanas price league, so I compare those.
> And the fact that they are very popular mice overall.
> 2. The LOD is higher on my kana then on the other mice mentioned above.
> So, no I don't agree one bit.
> And the buttons are way better then DA + G400/518 then Kana.
> Nothing at all to do with fanboycrap.


i guess he meant the actual material of the shell.


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *piskooooo*
> 
> The Kana sensor is fine you shouldn't really be playing at 1600/3200 DPI anyway that's a bit ridiculous. The Deathadder has bad tracking at 3200 DPI along with an even higher LOD than the Kana, and both Razer and Logitech use "cheap" plastic so it just comes down to fanboyism.


why is 1600 dpi so bad lol. most rts players use around that.....


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> G400+DA is in Kanas price league, so I compare those.
> 2. The LOD is higher on my kana then on the other mice mentioned above.


That's hilarious.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *piskooooo*
> 
> The Kana sensor is fine you shouldn't really be playing at 1600/3200 DPI anyway that's a bit ridiculous. The Deathadder has bad tracking at 3200 DPI along with an even higher LOD than the Kana, and both Razer and Logitech use "cheap" plastic so it just comes down to fanboyism.


Not quite, although I don't think it's proper for me to comment about hardware and price point choices.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> why is 1600 dpi so bad lol. most rts players use around that.....


It's been stated before, but the 3200 registry setting and or resolution (1600 on kana) isn't exactly the greatest nor should the sensor be able to scale up that high. hardware limited factor imo.

Edit: The sensor isn't anything special without the smaller lens magnification. That's the only thing making it worth while at the cost of worse tracking quality at higher CPI levels. :\


----------



## piskooooo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> ehm what.
> 1. The feet on my MX518, G400 and DA 3G are WAY better then my useless Kana feet.
> Maybe you mean OEM logitech mice but the G400+DA is in Kanas price league, so I compare those.
> And the fact that they are very popular mice overall.
> 2. The LOD is higher on my kana then on the other mice mentioned above.
> So, no I don't agree one bit.
> And the buttons are way better then DA + G400/518 then Kana.
> Nothing at all to do with fanboycrap.


I said the plastic not the feet, the Kana feet are absolute garbage. You have to tapemod the DABE for the LOD to be acceptable, it's just as bad as the Kana.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> That's hilarious.


Yes It is, and derp said that his kana had higher lod then his g400.
So yes its really fun.

......

I don't really care what you say, my kana has higher lod then G400 and DA 3g on all my surfaces.

Cba with you anymore, trying to defend kana with your life, blocked.


----------



## 337drew

pretty sure he successfully trolled you guys with his fanboyism comment.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I don't really care what you say, my kana has higher lod then G400 and DA 3g on all my surfaces.


I was talking about 3.5G. Sure 3G is leet, but gl finding a new one. My Kanas stop at 2CD on Corepad C1 and 3CD on Qck fnatic. Not that bad really. G400's LOD is indeed lower.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Cba with you anymore, trying to defend kana with your life, blocked.


You made 21 posts and in 20 you're denigrating Kana. And you're accusing me of defending a mouse?








Right now i'm using the Sensei. Last week i used the AM to see how it feels again. I even sold my old G400 and got a v2 one. Why would i defend a mouse? I'm just stating the facts.


----------



## end0rphine

My Kana has 1CD LOD on my Hayate. Works fine. But that's with a tape fix, haven't tried without since it was hard enough putting it on


----------



## eosgreen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> My Kana has 1CD LOD on my Hayate. Works fine. But that's with a tape fix, haven't tried without since it was hard enough putting it on


whats faster hayate or hein


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> whats faster hayate or hein


Hayate. By alot.


----------



## ich1ban

When running at 400dpi, does the mouse perform better at 500hz or 1000hz? As in less jitter etc. as someone here said that at 500hz there is less jitter at higher DPIs?


----------



## Kalashnikov

You guys confuse me with those opposite ideas @[email protected]
It's hard to make a decision now.


----------



## krokdylz

Yeah, I think it is time for a very detailed review of those rodents.


----------



## lisward

Pros: Shape, design, optical sensor.

Cons: Mouse feet are glide very poorly, mouse tracking terrible for anything above 800 dpi on the Kana, many dislike the feel of the mouse switches, feels cheap

Personally I enjoy the mouse, although I use the Kana at 1600 dpi because I play primarily RTS/Action RTS games, the sensor doesn't fail for me. I really really love the shape of the mouse, and I cannot get a similar offering where I live, no Zowies and what not where I live, so it suits my purposes.


----------



## nlmiller0015

SS.png 32k .png file
 I wish the sensei had A optical sensor my zowie am track good on my qck but my sensei tracking is horrible. SS is at the top zowie at the bottom


----------



## ich1ban

I had that problem with my very first XAI, had to RMA it because it would track like that on every single cloth surface except for the 9HD hard pad... 2nd one did not do that at all.

I use the Kana now and has been good since imo. it is basically a 1.1 with default 500/1000hz and no mwheelbug


----------



## HaiiYaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> SS.png 32k .png file
> I wish the sensei had A optical sensor my zowie am track good on my qck but my sensei tracking is horrible. SS is at the top zowie at the bottom


Looks really strange. What dpi and polling rate are you at? I don't experience that at all on neither my qck fnatic edition or hayate

sensei @ 450dpi/1000hz


----------



## fasti

lod issues fixed with proper tape-trick...


----------



## thuNDa

looks like there must be an own thread for "tape-trick" once and for all...


----------



## HaiiYaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> looks like there must be an own thread for "tape-trick" once and for all...


You do one


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HaiiYaa*
> 
> You do one


done


----------



## nlmiller0015

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HaiiYaa*
> 
> Looks really strange. What dpi and polling rate are you at? I don't experience that at all on neither my qck fnatic edition or hayate
> sensei @ 450dpi/1000hz


I was using it at 1800 dpi. Im think about sending it back to SS because when I also try to lower the exact lift to 5% it wouldnt track period on my qck


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> SS.png 32k .png file
> I wish the sensei had A optical sensor my zowie am track good on my qck but my sensei tracking is horrible. SS is at the top zowie at the bottom


How old is your pad?


----------



## fasti

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> Im using it at 1800 dpi im thinking about sending it back to SS it been really giving problems in fps unlike my xai with I had for about 3 years


As many people have mentioned here.. over 800 cpi = nothing good. I'm using them with 400, and they are best what I have ever had.

I was noobing with tape-fix, it works now for lod <3


----------



## nlmiller0015

My qck pad is new and im also running it at 500 hz I also have navi edition too and it still tracks werid it tracks worst than my SS Diablo if you ask me


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fasti*
> 
> As many people have mentioned here.. over 800 cpi = nothing good. I'm using them with 400, and they are best what I have ever had.
> I was noobing with tape-fix, it works now for lod <3


I think he meant Sensei, not Kana.


----------



## fasti

My ear got tired of Kana's sound. Ohwell Xai is ok for my lefhand while having Kinzu v2 pro(quieter for some reason) on right.

Wonder how to solve the sound issue.. was able to detect ~one of the sources inside Kana, but seems like there's more.


----------



## sToBZ

Hey guys, I've been following this thread from the beggining just to see how everything goes.
I'm a CS 1.6 player, been one for about 11 years, I've always used Intelli Mouse Optical and I'm really used to it, I still have 3 spares lying around but now that Microsoft isn't making them anymore I'm starting to get a little worried that my game is going to get messed up once I run out of IMOs.
So my question for you is witch one of these mice would you recommend.
Note that I really don't do well with right handed mice only or weid shaped ones like the a4techs.
These are my settings
Ingame sensitivity 1
Win sensitivity 5
acceleration on (to make up for the negative accel of the imo)
polling rate 125 (oldschool, I know)
zoom_sensitivity_ratio 0.7
ingame resolution 640X480

Wich one of these mice would you recommend me considering my settings and the fact that I really love the shape of IMO. I've had a kinzu for about 2 months but ended up selling it because weid accel, shape-wise it was great.

10x a bunch.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sToBZ*
> 
> Hey guys, I've been following this thread from the beggining just to see how everything goes.
> I'm a CS 1.6 player, been one for about 11 years, I've always used Intelli Mouse Optical and I'm really used to it, I still have 3 spares lying around but now that Microsoft isn't making them anymore I'm starting to get a little worried that my game is going to get messed up once I run out of IMOs.
> So my question for you is witch one of these mice would you recommend.
> Note that I really don't do well with right handed mice only or weid shaped ones like the a4techs.
> These are my settings
> Ingame sensitivity 1
> Win sensitivity 5
> acceleration on (to make up for the negative accel of the imo)
> polling rate 125 (oldschool, I know)
> zoom_sensitivity_ratio 0.7
> ingame resolution 640X480
> Wich one of these mice would you recommend me considering my settings and the fact that I really love the shape of IMO. I've had a kinzu for about 2 months but ended up selling it because weid accel, shape-wise it was great.
> 10x a bunch.


Zowie AM, I also used Intellimouse Optical for ages and didnt find other mice that comfy before AM, you should also get the GS version, its basically the same as IO 1.1 but its easier to grip and it has much better optical engine inside.


----------



## Glymbol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sToBZ*
> 
> acceleration on (to make up for the negative accel of the imo)
> ...
> I've had a kinzu for about 2 months but ended up selling it because weid accel, shape-wise it was great.


You must be kidding. Do you really feel Kinzu's accel with Windows' acceleration on top of it?
Not to mention IMO's speed at 125Hz....


----------



## Zhuni

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sToBZ*
> 
> Hey guys, I've been following this thread from the beggining just to see how everything goes.
> I'm a CS 1.6 player, been one for about 11 years, I've always used Intelli Mouse Optical and I'm really used to it, I still have 3 spares lying around but now that Microsoft isn't making them anymore I'm starting to get a little worried that my game is going to get messed up once I run out of IMOs.
> So my question for you is witch one of these mice would you recommend.
> Note that I really don't do well with right handed mice only or weid shaped ones like the a4techs.
> These are my settings
> Ingame sensitivity 1
> Win sensitivity 5
> acceleration on (to make up for the negative accel of the imo)
> polling rate 125 (oldschool, I know)
> zoom_sensitivity_ratio 0.7
> ingame resolution 640X480
> Wich one of these mice would you recommend me considering my settings and the fact that I really love the shape of IMO. I've had a kinzu for about 2 months but ended up selling it because weid accel, shape-wise it was great.
> 10x a bunch.


Zowie AM


----------



## sToBZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Glymbol*
> 
> You must be kidding. Do you really feel Kinzu's accel with Windows' acceleration on top of it?
> Not to mention IMO's speed at 125Hz....


Back in the day nobody knew about polling rate or accel on/off, later I learned about them, but in time I got used to it, i tried to change the polling rate to 500Hz and accel off, but it seems so weid, And to be honest the negative accel still is there even with the accel on, so it's just a little bit better with it. All I want is a very lightweight mouse with the shape similar to the IMO that doesn't spazz out or stops moving if I move to fast and doesn't have prediction







.


----------



## ich1ban

the negative accel only makes you turn -5% and the positive on the kinzu is only +10% at most

where as leaving accel on windows and moving it fast can swipe over 100% the distance


----------



## sToBZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> the negative accel only makes you turn -5% and the positive on the kinzu is only +10% at most
> where as leaving accel on windows and moving it fast can swipe over 100% the distance


Yes but that would happen only if the mouse had no negative accel, if it has neg accel, when fast swiping it will go a little further.
Here's how accel works for me
With win accel off
If I swipe normal it takes about 20/180 degree turn
If I fast swipe it's 30+cm/180 degree turn
With win accel on

Normal swipe 20cm/180 degree turn
and 25-2cm/180 degree turn

That's my explenation for keeping the accel on when using IMO
And I know that changing the polling rate would increase the malfunction speed, but It just feels weird for me, I play well at 125, and I really don't need a mouse to go exactly at the same speed, but I don't want positive accel eighter, negative is better for me.


----------



## Glymbol

In my opinion you have two options:
1. stick to your settings and keep IMO
2. change settings completely and get mouse working at higher speed

I think after so much time with settings like yours it is better to not change anything.


----------



## sToBZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Glymbol*
> 
> In my opinion you have two options:
> 1. stick to your settings and keep IMO
> 2. change settings completely and get mouse working at higher speed
> I think after so much time with settings like yours it is better to not change anything.


I thaught about that but considering that the mice arn't made anymore, I should look for a replacement, these 3 that I have now should keep me goind for the next 5-6 years, but you never know what the future has reserved, and I do plan to play CS1.6 forever







, I'm a kid that way.

Well I guess I'll just stop slamming my mice when I get nervous and punish the desk/keyboard instead









10x guys


----------



## glenn37216

-I have a new Kana with less than 30 minutes of use. Will trade for new Dirt 3 steam key.

Email me @ [email protected] for any questions or pictures.


----------



## krokdylz

So, can someone tell me now what the flaws of the kana are ??? Cause there are a lot of different opinions and no real review, I would really appreciate it.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krokdylz*
> 
> So, can someone tell me now what the flaws of the kana are ??? Cause there are a lot of different opinions and no real review, I would really appreciate it.


- It has hard plastic feet that don't glide on cloth pads. I had to purchase some Corepad teflon skates to test the mouse properly.

- It only has acceptable tracking on the 400 and 800CPI steps.

- It has a somewhat high lift off distance.

- The sensor has prediction. More than mice like the G400v2/Spawn/DA but less than mice like the G400v1/MX518/EC2.

Those are what I consider the flaws of the Kana since the jump bug was fixed.


----------



## krokdylz

Thank you very much Derp and what do you mean with acceptable tracking ? It sounds like it would not be as good as DA for example.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krokdylz*
> 
> Thank you very much Derp and what do you mean with acceptable tracking ? It sounds like it would not be as good as DA for example.




That's what I mean (right click the image and click view)







. If you enjoy a palm grip then I would say that the DA is the better mouse even though it has flaws too.


----------



## krokdylz

Haha, i see thx. I dunno why but 3200dpi reminds me of monkey island


----------



## crazycry

kana:800cpi
OS:6/11
CS:2.5



1. Razer Mantis Speed (color)
2. Qck Mass (black) but i cut it XDDDD
3. hand
4. pillow

kana r u ready?????




400DPI
1600DPI
3200DPI
the same


----------



## imagran

what is the malf speed of kinzu and kinzuv2 pro? Does kinzu v2 pro rly uses teflon feets and omron switches?


----------



## Kalashnikov

It's a kind of weird but I've just experienced this with my Sensei vs Ruse: both of them got jump bug on my lappy. I'm so shock and start thinking about RMA, wonder why this happened to me. Then to be sure about this, I tested them on my PC and....nothing happened, everything was just fine, tracking was good as usual, no any jump bug occurred.









I checked them carefully, the jump bugs was quite easy to produce on my lappy. So anyone experienced this before? It's strange.


----------



## Kalashnikov

Holish..., it's happened even with my Kinzu, *** ?????


----------



## areus

hey guys
want to buy kinzu v2
it has ttc switches right ?

with which mouse can i compare with .. with the old kinzu switches ? do the ttc switches feel same like those of xai ? pls rply gonna buy v2 or v2 pro
: )


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *areus*
> 
> hey guys
> want to buy kinzu v2
> it has ttc switches right ?
> with which mouse can i compare with .. with the old kinzu switches ? do the ttc switches feel same like those of xai ? pls rply gonna buy v2 or v2 pro
> : )


old kinzu had also the same TTC switches.


----------



## cROKODILE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *areus*
> 
> hey guys
> want to buy kinzu v2
> it has ttc switches right ?
> with which mouse can i compare with .. with the old kinzu switches ? do the ttc switches feel same like those of xai ? pls rply gonna buy v2 or v2 pro
> : )


Go with Pro edition. It has much nicer feet on the bottom and better Omron switches.









Xai's switches are similar to Pro edition's switches.


----------



## areus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cROKODILE*
> 
> Go with Pro edition. It has much nicer feet on the bottom and better Omron switches.


thy mate !
is there any bug known bout the v2 pro ? i mean does it skip on special surface ? i will use qck heavy.
is there a known jump bug like kana and so on : )
does the mousewheel rattle when u move right and left like in this video ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_o_5Kh3Brc


----------



## R3aCt0r M|Nd

Well finally got me my Kana today, No jump bug issue thanks to the SS firmware update.
But Damn! The skates on it are HORRIBLE!
If I'm honest I didn't think it would be that bad on my QcK, Guess Derp wasn't exaggerating at all!
It's that bad on cloth mouse mats that I'm tempted to remove the skates now and use it without them until I order my corepad Kinzu skates.

I don't see any harm using the Kana without skates ?

Apart from that little issue I'm quite pleased with the sensor, then again I am coming from an Ancient Razer copperhead Lazer, hehe









I'm sure once I sort the glide issues and get use to the mouse, It will be one of the best I have owned!


----------



## nlmiller0015

I had my sensei RMAed so im waiting for a new one to be shipped. For some reason it coundnt track at the lowest exact lift but my brother own could plus it was jittering at high and low cpi setting my mouse pad new too so that was werid


----------



## RamaBot

Hi all. This is my first post.

I was waiting for the Kana for a very long time. As I am a Xai user but wanted something closer tot the IO 1.1 in shape.
But this and other threads on the net have put me off somewhat.
Anyway, it will have to wait for a few months (if they improve it ) as last week I picked up a CM Storm Xornet for £16.60 delivered.

I updated to the latest firmware right away and can say that it is a fantastic little mouse.

Omron switches.
Lovely contoured Teflon Skates that glide really well. The glide is way better than my Xai.
No Jitter - even at 2000 DPI.
Very low LOD on my Qck Pad. 1DVD. Even lower on my wooden desk.
It must have very small acceleration if any as all the tests I do with it the cursor comes back to the same spot.
Low prediction with the latest firmware.
The side buttons are small but very easy to reach ( as it is short )

But the most amazing thing is the shape. It is the most comfortable thing I have ever used. Been using it a week now and I am just in love with it.
My Xai now feels too long. I can't use it at all.

It is wider than most mice but quite short. It has a nice ridge for the ring finger. The ring finger, along with the thumb are used to lift the mouse.
My pinky does not drag at all.

I like it.


----------



## R3aCt0r M|Nd

Corepad Kinzu skates on their way!
Having to use my Kana without my mouse mats, feels fookin odd without em, Would it effect how the mouse performs if I just removed the skates now and used it with me QcK ? Don't really wanna gimp my Kana even further till the skates turn up!


----------



## yzefeeR

http://steelseries.tumblr.com/post/17730427150/firmware-updates-sensei-and-kana


----------



## kaingosu

Kana (firmware version 260):

- Fixed an intermittent issue that caused the cursor to be stuck in movement when the mouse is quickly moved off the surface.

They are trying so hard, well done Steelseries. Btw Kim Rom is a nerd. Seriously.


----------



## 161029

I have yet to see some KinzuAdders V2, unless somebody has already posted one and I missed it (very likely).


----------



## R3aCt0r M|Nd

Well an extra 7 quid makes this perfect!
Shape, Size, Sensor Its one of the best mice I have ever used.

yeah we shouldn't have to replace the skates, It should of course come with 100% Teflon but its a small price to pay in my eyes for finally finding a mouse that fits my claw grip style aswel as a decent sensor.

Finally happy!


----------



## ich1ban

Does the kana perform better at 500hz or 1000hz at 400CPI?


----------



## mrwalker

I have a few questions guys:

1. Is the jump bug on the Kana fixed yet?
2. How is the tracking at 1600 dpi and 1800 if it's available?


----------



## Vikhr

I don't own a Kana but those questions have been answered somewhere in this thread.

1. The Jump bug is fixed on both the Kana and Kinzu v2
2. There are a couple of pictures showing the tracking at 1600 and 3200 cpi and it's quite terrible. It's interpolated so it's very jittery and imprecise, 400-800 track much better in comparison. I think the Kinzu may be a little bit better at 1600+ but don't take my word for that.


----------



## ARIKOmagic

1800 dpi isnt available. It goes in steps, 400 800 1600 3200. 3200 is to be avoided like the pest.

Just got my kizu v2 pro silver, and I agree completely with R3aCt0r M|Nd, the shape is awesome it's also the only mouse to date that fits my claw crip style.


----------



## rezolve

Anyone have an opinion on moving from a DA 3.5G to a Kinzu v2 pro?

I use a pretty low sens (about 40cm for a 180) so wondering how the malfunction speed is on the kinzu pro? I'm just a bit bored with the da shape really and would like something smaller


----------



## mrwalker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vikhr*
> 
> I don't own a Kana but those questions have been answered somewhere in this thread.
> 1. The Jump bug is fixed on both the Kana and Kinzu v2
> 2. There are a couple of pictures showing the tracking at 1600 and 3200 cpi and it's quite terrible. It's interpolated so it's very jittery and imprecise, 400-800 track much better in comparison. I think the Kinzu may be a little bit better at 1600+ but don't take my word for that.


I looked a few pages back and saw that the jump bug was fixed but it's a long thread and didn't see anything about the tracking at 1800dpi. Anyway, thanks for the summary! +rep


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARIKOmagic*
> 
> 1800 dpi isnt available. It goes in steps, 400 800 1600 3200. 3200 is to be avoided like the pest.
> Just got my kizu v2 pro silver, and I agree completely with R3aCt0r M|Nd, the shape is awesome it's also the only mouse to date that fits my claw crip style.


Sweet. So the kinzu v2 is usable at 1600DPI? but 3200 is a complete right off?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rezolve*
> 
> Anyone have an opinion on moving from a DA 3.5G to a Kinzu v2 pro?
> I use a pretty low sens (about 40cm for a 180) so wondering how the malfunction speed is on the kinzu pro? I'm just a bit bored with the da shape really and would like something smaller


In my opinion the perfect control speed of the Kinzu v2 is too low for someone that uses a sensitivity that low. If you're after a smaller mouse with a higher perfect control speed than the Kinzu V2 then you would have to look at the Zowie AM or the Abyssus. There is a good chance that the Abyssus will jitter on your cloth pad though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Sweet. So the kinzu v2 is usable at 1600DPI? but 3200 is a complete right off?


Yes, 1600 and below is fine on the Kinzu V2. Stay away from 3200.


----------



## foppa

I'm using the kinzu v2 pro with the original kinzu shell and corepad skatez.
I play 1.6


----------



## Kalashnikov

Ladies they just noticed that we'll get new feet with free charge, hurry up !!!

http://c.steelseries.com/pedicure/


----------



## piskooooo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kalashnikov*
> 
> Lady they just noticed that we'll get new feet with free charge, hurry up !!!
> http://c.steelseries.com/pedicure/


Omg thanks that's too good, just filled it out.


----------



## Devil-Cross

Hello,

I followed the forum since the beginning, and now I want to buy a new Steelseries, because I have the XAI but it has big problems Firmware (Boot and laser sensor).

But I still can not decide between Kinzu.v2 Pro and Kana.

I would like your advice / opinions, knowing that I play a lot of FPS (CS: S / CS: GO/TF2/L4D etc ...), with a sensitivity of 1000 DPI, 1.0 and sensitivity in games with the Steelseries QCK + NAVI.

And your opinion as a user.

What mouse do you recommend between these two? (At accuracy, quality, bug etc ...)


----------



## HaiiYaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Devil-Cross*
> 
> Hello,
> I followed the forum since the beginning, and now I want to buy a new Steelseries, because I have the XAI but it has big problems Firmware (Boot and laser sensor).
> But I still can not decide between Kinzu.v2 Pro and Kana.
> I would like your advice / opinions, knowing that I play a lot of FPS (CS: S / CS: GO/TF2/L4D etc ...), with a sensitivity of 1000 DPI, 1.0 and sensitivity in games with the Steelseries QCK + NAVI.
> And your opinion as a user.
> What mouse do you recommend between these two? (At accuracy, quality, bug etc ...)


As you play mostly fps games, having a high perfect control speed is very important so I would go with the kana


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Sweet. So the kinzu v2 is usable at 1600DPI? but 3200 is a complete right off?


Yes.


----------



## Sencha

Thanks guys.

Amazon UK have the kinzu v2 now. Bit more expensive then else where but atleast I can buy and try and return if needs be without a hitch,.


----------



## ARIKOmagic

The horror!!!
I just got my kinzu v2 pro silver, and it doesn't work 100% on my steelseries SX mousepad.
At first the mouse could almost not track at all! Then I washed and scrubed it in hot water, and now it only stops tracking in the center of the SX where it's more shiny and worn down. I tried the kinzu v2 on my QCK and it worked without a problem. I hate too say it, because I hate razer, but I also tried it on my old diamondback BEFORE I washed and scrubed it, and it worked perfectly.
So much for SS's most expensive mouse pad.

SS on the SX: "Lifelong durability; extreme durability; Both laser and optical mice perform and track flawlessly." ...lol

Any advice?


----------



## DeMS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARIKOmagic*
> 
> The horror!!!
> I just got my kinzu v2 pro silver, and it doesn't work 100% on my steelseries SX mousepad.
> At first the mouse could almost not track at all! Then I washed and scrubed it in hot water, and now it only stops tracking in the center of the SX where it's more shiny and worn down. I tried the kinzu v2 on my QCK and it worked without a problem. I hate too say it, because I hate razer, but I also tried it on my old diamondback BEFORE I washed and scrubed it, and it worked perfectly.
> So much for SS's most expensive mouse pad.
> SS on the SX: "Lifelong durability; extreme durability; Both laser and optical mice perform and track flawlessly." ...lol
> Any advice?


The SS SX only works allright with a very limited amount of mice, and when it's new.

Mice that work flawless on it? All of the Twin-eye from Razer should work at their fullest there since it's one of the most flat surfaces you can get them to work, which helps the sensor getting the bounce back from the laser.

The rest of mice that I've tested there skip far too easily to consider it for any real use (DA3.5G, AM, Mx518, 1.1, 3.0 all end up skipping at much lower speed than on other surfaces).


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ARIKOmagic*
> 
> The horror!!!
> I just got my kinzu v2 pro silver, and it doesn't work 100% on my steelseries SX mousepad.
> At first the mouse could almost not track at all! Then I washed and scrubed it in hot water, and now it only stops tracking in the center of the SX where it's more shiny and worn down. I tried the kinzu v2 on my QCK and it worked without a problem. I hate too say it, because I hate razer, but I also tried it on my old diamondback BEFORE I washed and scrubed it, and it worked perfectly.
> So much for SS's most expensive mouse pad.
> SS on the SX: "Lifelong durability; extreme durability; Both laser and optical mice perform and track flawlessly." ...lol
> Any advice?


Asides from that what do you think about the kinzu v2?


----------



## ARIKOmagic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeMS*
> 
> The SS SX only works allright with a very limited amount of mice, and when it's new.
> Mice that work flawless on it? All of the Twin-eye from Razer should work at their fullest there since it's one of the most flat surfaces you can get them to work, which helps the sensor getting the bounce back from the laser.
> The rest of mice that I've tested there skip far too easily to consider it for any real use (DA3.5G, AM, Mx518, 1.1, 3.0 all end up skipping at much lower speed than on other surfaces).


So SS lied twice, when they say that:
SX: "Both laser and optical mice perform and track flawlessly."
Kinzu v2: "...is made to be stable on every kind of surface..."
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Asides from that what do you think about the kinzu v2?


The rubber sides are very slippery, they feel more like hard plastic than soft "gripable" rubber. I have very wide hands so I need to claw grip mices, so this cheap rubber is kind of a bummer.
Aside from that, I love the weight and shape of the mouse. And no problem tracking on the QCK.


----------



## 161029

Kind of wondering if I should get the Kinzu V2/V2 Pro and doing a Kinzuadder V2 or V2 Pro.


----------



## eosgreen

so did the latest firmware make the kana not suck


----------



## Kalashnikov

Still jump at 3200CPI...


----------



## Methoxetamine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Kind of wondering if I should get the Kinzu V2/V2 Pro and doing a Kinzuadder V2 or V2 Pro.


From what was mentioned earlier, the little hole for the sensor is different than the original Kinzu, so it might not work.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Methoxetamine*
> 
> From what was mentioned earlier, the little hole for the sensor is different than the original Kinzu, so it might not work.


That's a little disappointing.


----------



## senna89

lateral button of KANA are easy to click or not ?
i usually use lateral button of a mouse for Knife in call of duty or battlefield and i do many "Only-Knife" battle, and i'm searching a mouse whit good side button, easy to click and precise, no esitations.


----------



## f0rld

Since i have heard that you can't fly a helicopter or jet in BF3 on a low DPI mice (like my 3.0







), i have to find a mouse which is relatively cheap (around 40€ max) and the tracking quality must be extremely good at all CPI's. And of course plus for that the shape is close to IME 3.0.

Forgot to say that i will be only investing around 40€ because i must use only that specific mouse while i play BF3, but i will use IME 3.0 as a primary mouse on every other game than BF3.


----------



## chinc

how's the tracking on the kana


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *f0rld*
> 
> Since i have heard that you can't fly a helicopter or jet in BF3 on a low DPI mice (like my 3.0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), i have to find a mouse which is relatively cheap (around 40€ max) and the tracking quality must be extremely good at all CPI's. And of course plus for that the shape is close to IME 3.0.
> Forgot to say that i will be only investing around 40€ because i must use only that specific mouse while i play BF3, but i will use IME 3.0 as a primary mouse on every other game than BF3.


Deathadder? or have a look at the EC1/EC2 by Zowie.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *f0rld*
> 
> Since i have heard that you can't fly a helicopter or jet in BF3 on a low DPI mice (like my 3.0
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), i have to find a mouse which is relatively cheap (around 40€ max) and the tracking quality must be extremely good at all CPI's. And of course plus for that the shape is close to IME 3.0.
> Forgot to say that i will be only investing around 40€ because i must use only that specific mouse while i play BF3, but i will use IME 3.0 as a primary mouse on every other game than BF3.


Well G400 is the cheapest option, even if its not following the straight curve of IE,DA.
Just toggle higher DPI when you fly the jet etc, and toggle down when going off.


----------



## SonDa5

Kana Kicks Ass.


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *piskooooo*
> 
> Omg thanks that's too good, just filled it out.
> http://c.steelseries.com/pedicure/


TY SS.


----------



## yzefeeR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> Kana Kicks Ass.


True story. Haters gonna hate.


----------



## Nivity

Thats your opinion and your entitled to it for sure.

I still think the Kana blows in total.

Useless skatez, the switches ARE really bad and buildquality is subpar. (I give them some cred for the skatez replacement however)

Atm the switches are what annoys me the most, they are so hmm mushy and argh.

Still think its ******ed of SS to put useless TTC switches on the mouse, when everyone knows they just suck, and since just about everyone else uses omron, why cheap out like hell.

All in all the Kana would be a decent mouse IF they used omron like everyone else and not mushypushy ttc.

Seems the search for a smaller mice with sidebuttons will never end, maybe TT saphira can take care of the search.


----------



## piskooooo

What do you mean by mushy? How can a switch feel mushy lol


----------



## end0rphine

Doesn't feel mushy to me. Feels crisp.

Not really sure what people mean by build quality though. I always thought that was a measure of durability. It's freakin plastic like any other mouse ...

Here's my take:

Good shape. Sensor is ok for low sens - mid maybe (800 CPI). Switches are ok, Cord is slightly frustrating since it's abit stiff. Skates - amended by SS.
It's a decent mouse and hasn't screwed up in any of my games. I can only wait on durability, which I'll concede TTC aren't best for.


----------



## cROKODILE

Which you guys like more: SteelSeries Kana or Zowie AM?

They seem pretty similar mice.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Doesn't feel mushy to me. Feels crisp.


The first Kana black i bought had a larger gap between the button and the switch. I noticed the same thing on the G400 i bought around the same time, i guess it was a fault of fabrication. Most likely this is why some report the buttons on Kana feel mushy. I fixed that by adding 2-3 layers of tape on the switches. The second white version i bought had very responsive and crisp buttons out of the box.


----------



## ich1ban

the Kana does feel a lot cheaper in quality compared to more expensive mice like the AM/Sensei etc. But it is extremely light, lighter than the IO 1.1a and is better quality than it, and is what they were trying to achieve - a 1.1a replicate.


----------



## SonDa5

Coming from a Razer DA BE that I enjoyed playing with for over 6 months the Kana feel much faster to me. It's a little smaller and lighter and feels very precise. The switches feel more precise than the Razer DA BE I had. I loved the DA BE as well. I took a chance with the Kana and I'm glad I did.

I don't have a problem with the switches but I would like to see the best switches available in the Kana.

One thing that I do think needed to be ixed was the feet. SS is fixing the feet and I'm very happy with the Kana right now. Hope my new feet get here soon.


----------



## Sencha

For those with the experience with the Kinzu v2 pro and the Sensei which would you get if money was not a factor? To be used for FPS games at 30cm/360

I'd like as many as possible to chime in on this.

Many thanks


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> For those with the experience with the Kinzu v2 pro and the Sensei which would you get if money was not a factor? To be used for FPS games at 30cm/360
> I'd like as many as possible to chime in on this.
> Many thanks


You'll occasionally reach malfunction if you swipe fast via kinzu v2.

Sensei is fine in terms of max speed on most surfaces.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> You'll occasionally reach malfunction if you swipe fast via kinzu v2.
> Sensei is fine in terms of max speed on most surfaces.


I am leaning towards the Sensei as can pick one up for "cheap" at the moment.


----------



## Nivity

Get the Sensei imo, its actually a good mouse, however I dont like the surface.
The fnatic surface/sides appeal more to me, more like deathadder.

Yeah compare the plastic from lets say G400 to Kana.
the g400 is MUCH MUCH more solid.

the Kana have sharp edges, thin and quite cheap plastic.

You do know that plastic can differ a ton in quality right?

And yes the buttons do feel mushy, compare a rubberdome keyboard to mechanical.
Rubberdome are mushy and well crapdeluxe.

The Kinzu v2 Pro feels more solid, and so does the kinzu v1 in plastic quality.
And its quite fun that the kinzu v2 weighs more then kana which is bigger









Its quite a shame.
All I really want is a smaller Xai really, I would not care about the sensor.
A smaller, lighter xai with the same feel, is it to much to ask









But again, the TT Saphira might be what I have been looking for ever since the Logitech G3 mouse.
Small mouse, light weight, good switches + feet AND 2 buttons on left side. Perfect layout.
Sensor placement might be an issue but I won't call that out before I try the mouse.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Get the Sensei imo, its actually a good mouse, however I dont like the surface.
> The fnatic surface/sides appeal more to me, more like deathadder.
> Yeah compare the plastic from lets say G400 to Kana.
> the g400 is MUCH MUCH more solid.
> the Kana have sharp edges, thin and quite cheap plastic.
> You do know that plastic can differ a ton in quality right?
> And yes the buttons do feel mushy, compare a rubberdome keyboard to mechanical.
> Rubberdome are mushy and well crapdeluxe.
> The Kinzu v2 Pro feels more solid, and so does the kinzu v1 in plastic quality.
> And its quite fun that the kinzu v2 weighs more then kana which is bigger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its quite a shame.
> All I really want is a smaller Xai really, I would not care about the sensor.
> A smaller, lighter xai with the same feel, is it to much to ask
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But again, the TT Saphira might be what I have been looking for ever since the Logitech G3 mouse.
> Small mouse, light weight, good switches + feet AND 2 buttons on left side. Perfect layout.
> Sensor placement might be an issue but I won't call that out before I try the mouse.


Alrighty I'm going to assume you must have broken down the plastic to it's molecular level or have access to the fabrication process steelseries uses to make the shells in order to quantify what quality plastic they use. I'm also going to assume your Kana is made of liquid since other plastics seem to be more 'solid'. And no the buttons do not feel mushy. Minimal travel distance, same as omrons that I have. There are sharp edges on the bottom of the mouse where you don't place your grip on. Button edges are curved, more than I can say for other mice. The kinzu v2 weighs 5g less than the kana - the steelseries website information is incorrect, user reviews have it the other way around.


----------



## Skylit

I agree the Nivity about kana build, but my experience is just that of the beta mice I was provided. I suppose it's fine, but not at its suggested retail/sale price. The competition offers more.

Without cable


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I agree the Nivity about kana build, but my experience is just that of the beta mice I was provided. I suppose it's fine, but not at its suggested retail/sale price. The competition offers more.


It's the same plastic material as Xai, Sensei etc etc etc. Let's not exaggerate. The only difference is the rubberized paint on the sides. You think the Sensei is worth 80$? All Steelseries products are overpriced. So are Zowie products, Roccat, Mionix. The only companies that offer more for less money are CM Storm and Logitech, but Steelseries has that perfect shape as an advantage. I really can't find a better alternative at the moment: a medium size, perfect ambidextrous shape, optical mouse. The sensor+lens+firmware combination may not be the best, but it is above average. As for the TTC switches, it's just like saying MX Reds are better than Blacks, it's all personal preference. What exactly does the competition offer? A jittering Abyssus, a Spawn that only works at 1800 DPI, a Zowie AM that stops tracking when you're in the middle of a game and a G400 that's shaped like a brick and weighs a ton.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> It's the same plastic material as Xai, Sensei etc etc etc. Let's not exaggerate. The only difference is the rubberized paint on the sides. You think the Sensei is worth 80$? All Steelseries products are overpriced. So are Zowie products, Roccat, Mionix. The only companies that offer more for less money are CM Storm and Logitech, but Steelseries has that perfect shape as an advantage. I really can't find a better alternative at the moment: a medium size, perfect ambidextrous shape, optical mouse. The sensor+lens+firmware combination may not be the best, but it is above average. As for the TTC switches, it's just like saying MX Reds are better than Blacks, it's all personal preference. What exactly does the competition offer? A jittering Abyssus, a Spawn that only works at 1800 DPI, a Zowie AM that stops tracking when you're in the middle of a game and a G400 that's shaped like a brick and weighs a ton.


ABS plastic sure, but the design or tooling was modified for cost. This is going to sound elitist or something of that nature, but maybe I know a little too much to continue posting on forums.

The rest is just opinion as we were discussing the build, not sensors and specific issues that nearly every mouse is guilty of.

Edit: I've made it clear time and time again that the Sensei has a fairly decent profit margin, but look at the surrounding market. It's the same story. Only difference is warranty length.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> ABS plastic sure, but the design or tooling was modified for cost.


I'm looking at my white Kana right now and i can see the buttons plastic thickness is the same as Xai, so if the material is the same quality then what are we talking about? Are you referring to the sensor's LED shining through the shell? Obviously that's a design flaw, but can we really afford to be that picky? Do we really have that many options? I was under the impression that you cared more about performance than esthetics. To tell you the truth i am disappointed with the guys that provided feedback on Kinzu V2 and Kana. None of you made an actual review of these mice and i was looking forward to reading your opinions. Just saying "i don't really care for the sensor" doesn't answer my questions.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Edit: I've made it clear time and time again that the Sensei has a fairly decent profit margin, but look at the surrounding market. It's the same story. Only difference is warranty length.


Exactly my point.


----------



## Nivity

I could not care less about the led.

I have the white kana next to my xai here aswell, the Xais plastic body IS more sturdy.
I could probably crush the kana If i tried with 1 hand.

The Kanas sharp edges is something thats non existant on the xai aswell.
The black stripe, press the mousebutton down and ram your finger into the sharp edge.
The whole top part got sharp edges, something the xai does NOT have.

The buttons also feel more floating then the Xai, dno how to explain it.

And I don't really care what someone else say, the body is more flimsy then a mouse like G400.
And the buttons ARE way worse then omron buttons, but then again some people prefer rubbercrap to mechanical.

Sensor wise I don't really care, I don't play CS with super low sens, and use 800-1000dpi on all my mice.
It's doing its job, even If the lod is abit high to my taste compared to my DA3g (Stop tracking @ 1 dvd on 9HD + Goliathus speed)

And again, Im not afraid to trash mice (or any product) for their flaws, im not like most people that buy a product and MUST defend it with their life to justify their purschase.

The Kana Idea was great, It failed on some parts.
Switches, plastic could be better put together (even cheaper Kinzu is better), feet ("fixed" with replacement)
The Cord is quite horrible aswell, the stiffest cord I ever had.

Now im waiting for my TT Saphira, everything looks perfect with buttons, size, shape.
Lets see if the sensor placement will making the mouse blow or not.

Logitech G3 shape and look (Still think the G3 is sexy as fck) with 1 extra sidebutton, 500hz and 400-800 dpi toggles.

Im following the mouse progress on ESR aswell, looks perfect so far.
A must to buy one of those when he completes the process.


----------



## HaiiYaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I could not care less about the led.
> I have the white kana next to my xai here aswell, the Xais plastic body IS more sturdy.
> I could probably crush the kana If i tried with 1 hand.
> The Kanas sharp edges is something thats non existant on the xai aswell.
> The black stripe, press the mousebutton down and ram your finger into the sharp edge.
> The whole top part got sharp edges, something the xai does NOT have.
> The buttons also feel more floating then the Xai, dno how to explain it.
> And I don't really care what someone else say, the body is more flimsy then a mouse like G400.
> And the buttons ARE way worse then omron buttons, but then again some people prefer rubbercrap to mechanical.
> Sensor wise I don't really care, I don't play CS with super low sens, and use 800-1000dpi on all my mice.
> It's doing its job, even If the lod is abit high to my taste compared to my DA3g (Stop tracking @ 1 dvd on 9HD + Goliathus speed)
> And again, Im not afraid to trash mice (or any product) for their flaws, im not like most people that buy a product and MUST defend it with their life to justify their purschase.
> The Kana Idea was great, It failed on some parts.
> Switches, plastic could be better put together (even cheaper Kinzu is better), feet ("fixed" with replacement)
> The Cord is quite horrible aswell, the stiffest cord I ever had.
> Now im waiting for my TT Saphira, everything looks perfect with buttons, size, shape.
> Lets see if the sensor placement will making the mouse blow or not.
> Logitech G3 shape and look (Still think the G3 is sexy as fck) with 1 extra sidebutton, 500hz and 400-800 dpi toggles.
> Im following the mouse progress on ESR aswell, looks perfect so far.
> A must to buy one of those when he completes the process.


Well the "G3" lookalike on ESR does look interesting I just don't agree on the sensor choice. I have yet to see the avago 3050 perform great in any mouse


----------



## Sencha

One other thing. If I did get a Kinzu V2 would I have a problem on my QCK Fnatic? Asking because I've no intention of changing pads at this moment.


----------



## ich1ban

apparently they both don't track the best on colour pads, i have no problem with it on the green part of my goliathus, although qck fnatic is a lot more colourful


----------



## Sencha

Cheers dude.... I did a bit of a look around and others said the same......won't risk it.


----------



## lisward

For some reason the Kana didn't feel right in my hand, I think I wanted a mouse that was even smaller, plus I loathed those TTC switches so much, plus I don't have ready access to replacement feet, so its gliding so god awfully. Plus I play at 1.6k cpi, so yeah the tracking is very jittery and all around bad. Was thinking of getting the v2 Pro because it was smaller, but I was afraid of the god damn plastic feet again and I just don't trust SS anymore. Decided to buy an Abyssus. So happy with my purchase.

People can talk **** about Razer, say they have questionable quality, but they still do make the two most popular and best mice, Abyssus and Deathadder. Feels so much better using that mouse. Not trying to insult SS, but I'm just trying to tell you guys, there is no difference between this SS campaign going around saying that they focus on innovating products rather than making it gimmicky and flashy, and actually putting lights on the product, because in the end, it's all marketing, everything a company says and does, regardless of whether they believe in it or not, is done to get you to buy their product. Sure they don't put lights on their products and give them cute animal names, but in my eyes there's no difference between doing that and pasting names of all the pro-gaming teams they sponsor on their product.


----------



## ARIKOmagic

*deleted


----------



## 161029

So, is it confirmed if you can make a Kinzuadder V2 or not?


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lisward*
> 
> Sure they don't put lights on their products and give them cute animal names


Well they do put lights on their mice now. And the names are just as contrived as Razers. Bar the brand identity very little separated the two companies now. I just ordered the Abyssus as well after trying one out and being impressed.


----------



## SonDa5

Has anyone received new feet yet?


----------



## f0rld

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Well G400 is the cheapest option, even if its not following the straight curve of IE,DA.
> Just toggle higher DPI when you fly the jet etc, and toggle down when going off.


Ok. I have tested my friend's g400 and i experienced problems with its' high LOD, (i dont know if you agree with me but its my opinion). Is there any way to lower g400's DPI?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *f0rld*
> 
> Ok. I have tested my friend's g400 and i experienced problems with its' high LOD, (i dont know if you agree with me but its my opinion). Is there any way to lower g400's DPI?


Hit the - button near the scroll wheel to lower the DPI. If you meant lowering the LOD then you can use the tape trick. http://www.overclock.net/t/1211083/tape-trick-for-lower-liftoff-distance-lod-with-optical-mice


----------



## f0rld

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Hit the - button near the scroll wheel to lower the DPI. If you meant lowering the LOD then you can use the tape trick. http://www.overclock.net/t/1211083/tape-trick-for-lower-liftoff-distance-lod-with-optical-mice


I mean lowering the LOD. Thanks.

Oh. I got hooked to RTS-games aswell so im planning to buy a mouse which performs well in BF3 and aswell RTS-games (SC2 and WC3. I hope you all know that its good to have low DPI for FPS-games and medium or high DPI for RTS-games). Any suggestions?


----------



## Lompang

its just preference f0rld, a person can just do as well at 400 dpi than someone with 3500 dpi in a game, just depends who's behind the mouse.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *f0rld*
> 
> I mean lowering the LOD. Thanks.
> Oh. I got hooked to RTS-games aswell so im planning to buy a mouse which performs well in BF3 and aswell RTS-games (SC2 and WC3. I hope you all know that its good to have low DPI for FPS-games and medium or high DPI for RTS-games). Any suggestions?


Even if G9x have its laser its well used by korean SC2 progamers (Without shell on most)
And some Quake 3 pros use it aswell.

Although basic mice like WMO is more popular in Quake.

But then again a mouse like kinzu v2 pro or kana if you want can be used aswell, just use the dpi button to swap dpi.

And the statement about low dpi in fps games are quite wrong actually.
Some mouse perform better at higher dpi, if you can lower ingame sensitivity a good amount its just as good, if not better.

Some games are still to fast with lowest ingame sensitivity however when using a high dpi setting.


----------



## f0rld

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lompang*
> 
> its just preference f0rld, a person can just do as well at 400 dpi than someone with 3500 dpi in a game, just depends who's behind the mouse.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Even if G9x have its laser its well used by korean SC2 progamers (Without shell on most)
> And some Quake 3 pros use it aswell.
> Although basic mice like WMO is more popular in Quake.
> But then again a mouse like kinzu v2 pro or kana if you want can be used aswell, just use the dpi button to swap dpi.
> And the statement about low dpi in fps games are quite wrong actually.
> Some mouse perform better at higher dpi, if you can lower ingame sensitivity a good amount its just as good, if not better.
> Some games are still to fast with lowest ingame sensitivity however when using a high dpi setting.


So you guys say that people can still put up good results at jet dogfights in BF3, even with 400 DPi'ed mouse like IME 3.0? If yes, then i'm safe =)

and why am I sticking with 3.0, even though these mice i have been looking costs only around 30 euros? Because I'm saving money for my new PC, and i still lack out of quite much money so...


----------



## piskooooo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> Has anyone received new feet yet?


Got mine yesterday, they're a lot better.


----------



## Kalashnikov

Guys, the Kinzu Red Pro v2's SS logo is white, isn't it? I find it's black in my country (Vietnam). Can anyone explain ? Thanks.


----------



## Sencha

Isn't that just the V1 red?


----------



## kaingosu

V1's logo is also white

http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/803343/211196030-372728987/Steelseries-Kinzu-RED-Pro-Edition-Gaming-Mouse-Free-Fast-Shipping-Original-Brand-NEW-In-Box-.html


----------



## eosgreen

so lame the sensor was bad for kana im so mouse depressed lol. where art thou saphira


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> so lame the sensor was bad for kana im so mouse depressed lol. where art thou saphira


Yeah the sapphira looks like a mouse for me.

Omron (as every mouse SHOULD have)
Small and light.
2 sidebuttons on left side (thank you jesus) I still cant figure out the shape thought ;O It looks ambi but with a veeeery minor curve. Nowhere near curves like Deathadder etc hm.
A good sensor
Diamondback like buttons.
Rubber coating, the "grip" on the sides I could do without however but its fine.

However I never had a TT product(TT is quite small here in sweden) so I have no idea what quality to expect
Weight compartment is nothing for me, I hope it performs at its best without any weights.
Also the mouse seems quite high/thick and short. Not sure how it will feel in my hand.


----------



## piskooooo

I'm getting real bad double clicks with the middle mouse on my Kana.


----------



## rmp459

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Yeah the sapphira looks like a mouse for me.
> Omron (as every mouse SHOULD have)
> Small and light.
> 2 sidebuttons on left side (thank you jesus) I still cant figure out the shape thought ;O It looks ambi but with a veeeery minor curve. Nowhere near curves like Deathadder etc hm.
> A good sensor
> Diamondback like buttons.
> Rubber coating, the "grip" on the sides I could do without however but its fine.
> However I never had a TT product(TT is quite small here in sweden) so I have no idea what quality to expect
> Weight compartment is nothing for me, I hope it performs at its best without any weights.
> Also the mouse seems quite high/thick and short. Not sure how it will feel in my hand.


yea, but who thought it was a good idea for make it light up like crazy and have a dragon on it that pulses faster as you move more... i mean... seriously ? that alone is enough for me to not buy it.


----------



## Devil-Cross

I hesitate between Kana and Kinzu Pro v2 .....

Because I like the simplicity of Kinzu Pro v2 and its orientation 100% performance, but Kana has more options.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rmp459*
> 
> yea, but who thought it was a good idea for make it light up like crazy and have a dragon on it that pulses faster as you move more... i mean... seriously ? that alone is enough for me to not buy it.


Havent seen the drivers but I guess you can turn all lightning off?


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Devil-Cross*
> 
> I hesitate between Kana and Kinzu Pro v2 .....
> Because I like the simplicity of Kinzu Pro v2 and its orientation 100% performance, but Kana has more options.


To be honest I would go with kinzu v2 pro if your choice are those 2.
TTC switches are so bad compared to omron as the v2 pro have.

TTC to me is just mushy non responsive buttons.

If you dont need the sidebuttons I see no reason to buy the kana at all.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> If you dont need the sidebuttons I see no reason to buy the kana at all.


The Kana has a much higher perfect control speed if you need it. But with that higher perfect control speed comes a higher LOD and worse tracking at higher CPI.


----------



## Skar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> The buttons also feel more floating then the Xai, dno how to explain it.


I assume that was a mechanical design decision to maximize yield rate. The pre travel of the switches is artificially limited to avoid idle movement and lose buttons due to assembly/injection tolerances.
Same case with kinzuv2 pro. I dont like it personally, feels likethe switch is already half (okay, a tenth







) pressed before you click it...


----------



## SonDa5

Other than the lousy feet my Kana is doing very well in UT3. Earlier today I got accused of hacking to aim so fast. I like the Kana more than the DA. Kana is the best gaming mouse I have ever played with.


----------



## DannyJr

Probably dumb question, but can you adjust the polling rate to 125 hz with the kana?


----------



## ManiacsOfNoise

Yep, also you can adjust to 250, 500 and 1000 Hz too.


----------



## DannyJr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ManiacsOfNoise*
> 
> Yep, also you can adjust to 250, 500 and 1000 Hz too.


Thanks, was just making sure









Can anyone explain why people hate the TTC switches on the Kana so much? Are they just cheaper and break or do they also feel terrible compared to omron. I've personally never used either types of switches.

I've basically been using WMOs my whole life. I'm sure the switches on those are terrible. How do TTC and Omron switches compare to those? I can only assume they are harder than the super cheap and light WMOs, but by how much? I'm only wondering because my brother recently bought a zowie AM and i really can't stand the switches on that. WAY too stiff for me. My bro likes them alot but in things like RTS they are simply too hard. So basically i think all i've ever known is the ****tiest weak switches in the WMO and apparently some of the hardest possible in the AM. Are Omron or TTC somewhere in the middle?


----------



## Juhisp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyJr*
> 
> Thanks, was just making sure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone explain why people hate the TTC switches on the Kana so much? Are they just cheaper and break or do they also feel terrible compared to omron. I've personally never used either types of switches.
> I've basically been using WMOs my whole life. I'm sure the switches on those are terrible. How do TTC and Omron switches compare to those? I can only assume they are harder than the super cheap and light WMOs, but by how much? I'm only wondering because my brother recently bought a zowie AM and i really can't stand the switches on that. WAY too stiff for me. My bro likes them alot but in things like RTS they are simply too hard. So basically i think all i've ever known is the ****tiest weak switches in the WMO and apparently some of the hardest possible in the AM. Are Omron or TTC somewhere in the middle?


Stiffness has a lot to do with the design of the mouse shell, not just the switch. Having said that, Omrons and TTC's are definitely lighter than the Huanos (on the Zowie AM). Usually mice with TTC switches feel cheaper than mice with Omrons but that may just be because TTC's are usually used on lower end mice.

On another note, isn't the Kinzu V1 pro supposed to have Omrons? Because I just opened mine up and it had TTC's in it.


----------



## Skylit

Not sure about the white version, but the red version should.


----------



## Nivity

Been trying to get used to the mushy buttons on kana this weekend, but its impossible for me, can't stand the mushy feeling.

And the side plastic texture is weird.
Enjoy much more the glossy plastic from deathadder or rubbery like G400/Xai.

Oh well, I gave it a real try now with several games this weekend, but back in the box it goes.

The raw is abit tempting to try actually, xai texture and a tad lighter.


----------



## Vjudge

Does anyone know if the DPI and polling rate of either the kana or kinzu V2 would stay remembered by the mouse if it went from PC to a Mac? I was thinking of getting one of them for my PC but for work i need to use a Mac and from experience I've found out you can basically only use 125 hz on mac for mice to work reliably. Not a big deal if i can't use it on the mac side at all but would be nice if I could.


----------



## Vjudge

Oh, there's no Mac drivers, just to be clear.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Not sure about the white version, but the red version should.


The white version had TTC switches. The only difference between the regular Kinzu V1 and the Pro White was the glossy paint.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> The white version had TTC switches. The only difference between the regular Kinzu V1 and the Pro White was the glossy paint.


was the white version even called "pro" edition?


----------



## hza

No, just "White Special Edition"


----------



## Juhisp

That's weird because mine was the red pro version


----------



## Kalashnikov

^

That was for Red, White is not


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DannyJr*
> 
> Thanks, was just making sure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone explain why people hate the TTC switches on the Kana so much? Are they just cheaper and break or do they also feel terrible compared to omron. I've personally never used either types of switches.


I have no idea. I'm coming from a Razer Death Adder Black Edition and the only problem I am having with the Kana is the crappy feet. It's been over 2 weeks and SS still hasn't shipped me the free replacement fixed feet.









The switches work fine for me. Kana is kicking butt in UT3.


----------



## Nivity

Some people dont notice the difference between 60hz and 120hz, and some prefer rubberdome to mechanical.

Im one of those that need 120hz ,mechanical keyboard and a good mouse with omron switches.

And "kana is kicking butt in ut3" lol, you can perform well with most mice.

Ut2k4 > ut3 btw


----------



## piskooooo

My Kana went from the MMB double clicking randomly to doing it almost every other click, and now the side buttons do it sometimes.


----------



## vss vintorez

Buy a solder, teflon blue feet.

Make kana be proud of you.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I guess more prediction causing the tracking to feel weird? In my opinion the Pixart sensor in the Kana is inferior to the G400v2's sensor in every way including LOD.
> 
> Also more LOD numbers from my Kana, a hair over 3 DVD's on a black Artisan HIEN.


Hey Derp... could u do a test like that with 400 dpi on the kana ?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> Hey Derp... could u do a test like that with 400 dpi on the kana ?


----------



## kaingosu

Mine stops tracking at 2DVDs on Qck Heavy, Corepad C1 and Qpad CT Black. However the LOD is 3DVDs on Qck fnatic so i guess is best to use it with a black mousepad.
The only problem i can think of is the inconsistent polling rate. 500hz and 1000hz are unusable on my pc. 250hz is fine though.



Can you test yours and post the results (@500 and 1000)?


----------



## Nivity

Here is my Kana log figures (Without tape ofc) Reducing the stupid illumination reduces lod by 1-2mm thankfully, the illumination is just to bright, should have done a solution like Zowie AM.

Qck+ DOTA2 (Over Grey+Red Part) (worst mousepad possible for kana ;>)
Kana 4-5

9HD:
Kana 3

Qck+ SK
Kana: 4

Goliathus Speed
Kana 3

Qpad CT BF BadCompany
Kana 4

Qck Heavy
Kana 3

Can test hz when I get home from work.


----------



## ich1ban

What do you mean by reducing the illumination?


----------



## Nivity

http://www.overclock.net/t/1211083/tape-trick-for-lower-liftoff-distance-lod-with-optical-mice basicly.


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Some people dont notice the difference between 60hz and 120hz, and some prefer rubberdome to mechanical.
> Im one of those that need 120hz ,mechanical keyboard and a good mouse with omron switches.


I have 120hz display and mechanical keyboard. I like quality hardware for gaming. Kana is smooth and responsive Very fast. No problems with the switches for me. Prefer the Kana over my Razer Death Adder. Only downfall of Kana for me is the cheap feet. The glide is lacking right now. Need feet.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> I have 120hz display and mechanical keyboard. I like quality hardware for gaming. Kana is smooth and responsive Very fast. No problems with the switches for me. Prefer the Kana over my Razer Death Adder. Only downfall of Kana for me is the cheap feet. The glide is lacking right now. Need feet.


Im glad your happy with it








Im not, I still think it lacks in quality especially ttc switches.

Each to his own as I said.

And kana is not more smooth and responsive then most other mice in terms of sensor.

The shape I can understand, but performance its the same.

I prefer the Kana size/shape but deathadder for omron and quality, as I prefer G400, sensei aswell for quality and again omron especielly.

Then again I just got a MX300 and it blows all other mice out of the water, back to old school with the best shape there is on any mouse.


----------



## Nivity

For Kain.
1000hz is abit iffy on Kana when I tested it before, 500hz works better for it.
G400 does really well at 1000hz. imo.

500hz kana.png 92k .png file


1000hz kana.png 109k .png file


1000hz g400 v1.png 101k .png file


----------



## kaingosu

Thanks! 1000Hz looks exactly like mine. However the 500Hz is perfect on your pc. I still get drops to 250Hz when using Kana @500. Weird since my other mice have no problem keeping a steady 500 polling rate.


----------



## guffivarew-177

The Kinzu v2 still has problems ?

Which you advise me? Kinzu V2 or Kinzu v2 pro ? Or Kinzu V2, Kinzu v2 Pro and Kana ?

Thanks.


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I prefer the Kana size/shape but deathadder for omron and quality.


See I have the DA BE and I had no idea what type of switches it had but the Kana feel just as good in terms of the switches. I can't tell the difference. Kana does seem to move, aim and shoot faster for me.
Still no mouse feet. Sent SS a message today about the feet and they didn't respond.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> See I have the DA BE and I had no idea what type of switches it had but the Kana feel just as good in terms of the switches. I can't tell the difference. Kana does seem to move, aim and shoot faster for me.


It does move faster because it's smaller and lighter. Aim and shoot faster? Not likely. The sensor is inferior to DA, but still decent enough.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> Still no mouse feet. Sent SS a message today about the feet and they didn't respond.


Mine arrived today. It took 2 weeks from Chicago to Romania. I already replaced the skates when i bought the thing with SS Glide Kinzu, but the ones they sent seem the be just as good. If they will include these skates from now on, the feet problem is solved.


----------



## nlmiller0015

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> See I have the DA BE and I had no idea what type of switches it had but the Kana feel just as good in terms of the switches. I can't tell the difference. Kana does seem to move, aim and shoot faster for me.
> Still no mouse feet. Sent SS a message today about the feet and they didn't respond.


Maybe it because of the shape, Shape plays a factor in a person aiming abilities too


----------



## Nivity

Yeah smaller ambidextrous mouse feel more easy to drag around, and it can for sure feel "faster"
Going from MX300/G1 to a bigger mouse like G400 feels like your going from a small boob which is easy to handle to enourmous boobs that can smash melons.

I already got corepad kinzu on the kana, but filled out the form for feet just because ;>


----------



## pruik6

Has the kinzu v2 pro same accelaration as SS Sensei ? because i changed from imperator 4g to kinzu v2 pro and i dont feel missclicks so i think its very minimum the accelaration then. Also what mousepad is good for kinzu v2 pro?
I like kinu v2 very much so i go maybe SS sensei ,whats the wight difference like 40 g..


----------



## Kalashnikov

How the hell my Kana stop tracking at 2mm on Goliathus Speed ?


----------



## wongt4

Would a Kinzu v2 with its acceleration and tracking be any good for starcraft 2 and BF3? Considering buying a Kinzu v2, but idk if its really worth $42 bucks, might wait for the price to drop because its basically the same thing as the kinzu v1, but they just fixed its pixel issues. Whats a good mousepad to play sc2 on with this (that costs less than 14 bucks)


----------



## end0rphine

Kinzu v2 doesn't have any acceleration. Only problem is tracking at DPI higher than 800, or 1600 in the Kinzu's case. Unless you need a DPI higher than 1600, the kinzu v2 is fine.


----------



## Nivity

And that kinzu v2/pro have quite low malfunction speed, so lowsens gamer =* no go.

But since SC2 = high dpi that dont matter.

Same with acceleration etc, most pro sc2 players dont care about that.

Take Korea pro sc2 scene, most mice used is Logitech G1 1000dpi version and G9x without shell.

Mousepad aswell dont really matter, nestea uses a 2$ mousepad.
A ton use the small Razer goliathus speed.


----------



## pruik6

most use Logitech g1 on 5/11 windopws slider so they actuacly get 750 dpi from the 1000.
Witch is better SS sensei or kinzu v2 pro? and why

p.s BTW there is kinzu v2 pro new firmware fix tool so i let you know guys


----------



## Mizmo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> Still no mouse feet. Sent SS a message today about the feet and they didn't respond.


got mine on tuesday, took 10 days from chicago to luxembourg. depending on where you live it may take a little bit longer
very happy with it now


----------



## vss vintorez

Jump bug fixed
Sensor loop fixed
Feet fixed

It's a pretty good mouse with 3,5 mm LOD and a little bit prediction.


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mizmo*
> 
> got mine on tuesday, took 10 days from chicago to luxembourg. depending on where you live it may take a little bit longer
> very happy with it now


SS dropped the ball with my feet request problem. I was told to reorder them because they lost my order information. I was told they would shipped out right away as soon as they received my mailing address. So far it seems like it takes an extra amount of *****ing before SS customer service kicks in. Far from good customer service.

The feet on the Kana mouse are terrible. I game on a black SS Experience I2. The feet on the kana have been shredding to pieces on it and I'm sure the black powdered coated finish is suffering on wear and tear.

I hope to get the new feet within 10 days. I'm going to return the Kana to vendor if the feet don't get to me soon. The Kinzu v2 Pro interest me but it is rated at almost half of the Kana's 130 inch per second tracking rating. The aiming on the Kana is incredible. I can be running, or jump in air and find a target accurately and shoot for the kill. I think the Kana's sensor control and movement is the best I have ever used. I think I would like the Kinzu V2 PRo even more than the Kana if the Kinzu v2 Pro had the same sensor.


----------



## hza

The sensor is the same, lence is different.


----------



## wongt4

Is the Kana any worse than the Kinzu v2 Pro? I'm asking this cause the Kinzu v2 basically costs only 5 less dollars than the Kana, and considering the features the kinzu offers (3 buttons, very little customization, extremely bare) I doubt that a Kinzu v2 is worth 42 bucks. I was told that the Kana had its mouse feet issue fixed, it has a lightup mousewheel, and 2 extra buttons on the side, bigger size, and it had one small advantage in terms of tracking or something

Does the Kana also come with the omron mouse switches and does it also track alright on a cloth mousepad or should I just get myself a QcK or something. Or does anyone who have both have a preference for if the Kinzu v2 Pro or Kana is better

Tl;DR: basically whats better for Starcraft for its cost, Kana or Kinzu v2 Pro because I feel Kana comes with more for just a bit more but not sure if Kana has a large amount of problems. Also, do these two mice do well on a cloth mousepad or should I buy something like a QcK


----------



## Nivity

Since you dont use super low dpi with quick drags in starcraft kinzu v2pro will work fine.

And would be my choice for starcraft without a doubt.

Omron and smaller mouse.

And no kana dont have omron, it uses TTC.


----------



## wongt4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Since you dont use super low dpi with quick drags in starcraft kinzu v2pro will work fine.
> And would be my choice for starcraft without a doubt.
> Omron and smaller mouse.
> And no kana dont have omron, it uses TTC.


Would it be a better decision to just get the kana anyway and use it for FPS Games like BF3 as well? Really like the Kana's light up mousewheel, decorated wire but then again I like the black kinzu's glossy finish (black kana = rubberized) and white logo (fits better than a dark logo on the kana)


----------



## pruik6

Why they advice on the steelseries site that kinzuv2pro works best with Qck serie ,what is the reason behind it?
and what mouse pad you guys use with kinzu v2 pro? does it work well with hard mousepads..


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pruik6*
> 
> Why they advice on the steelseries site that kinzuv2pro works best with Qck serie ,what is the reason behind it?
> and what mouse pad you guys use with kinzu v2 pro? does it work well with hard mousepads..


It works well on any pad really, except the I-2 pads. They just want you to buy more steelseries, and maybe cover their base _in case_ it doesn't work with your pad.


----------



## Nivity

Im glad you enjoy the cable for kana ;> I hate it.

Its the stiffest cable I ever had, I can make a big rainbow with the cable and it stays that way.

Braided in cement.

Way way stiffer then all other ss mice have aswell, dont rly understand what they ahve done with the cable on kana rly.


----------



## Nivity

Many reviewers have all said that Kinzu v2 kinda need a 1 color surface, it works like crap on multicolored like qck + fnatic etc.

And ofc they say it works best with their own mousepads, would be quite weird if they said "Use our mouse with razer mousepad"


----------



## pruik6

I know that







,but why laser works better with hard surfaces and optical better with cloth?


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> The sensor is the same, lence is different.


The SS WEB site states the Kana mouse has about double the tracking rate distance as the Kinze v2 Pro.

They may be the same sensor but the Kana probably uses a higher power phase on the PCB.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pruik6*
> 
> I know that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ,but why laser works better with hard surfaces and optical better with cloth?


Optical would most likely work better with hard. It just so happens that it works pretty well on cloth as well. This is just because of the sensitivity of laser.


----------



## WarningHPB

quick question do you need to have steelseries engine running or even installed for it to remember your custom cpi settings?


----------



## iFeaR

No. ^


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> The SS WEB site states the Kana mouse has about double the tracking rate distance as the Kinze v2 Pro.
> They may be the same sensor but the Kana probably uses a higher power phase on the PCB.


No. It's just the lens magnification.


----------



## eosgreen

so have they fixed the kana sensor issues or will it be an issue that is never fixed

also why hasnt anyone tried the saphira...


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eosgreen*
> 
> so have they fixed the kana sensor issues or will it be an issue that is never fixed
> also why hasnt anyone tried the saphira...


The pixel jump is fixed yeah, unusable at higher dpi though. 400,800dpi is fine.

Regarding sapphira I dont think its out everywhere, its not out in sweden for example.


----------



## Kalashnikov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WarningHPB*
> 
> quick question do you need to have steelseries engine running or even installed for it to remember your custom cpi settings?


U need to install it once to config everything u want, then just uninstall or leave it without running on startup on Wins


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> The pixel jump is fixed yeah, unusable at higher dpi though. 400,800dpi is fine.
> Regarding sapphira I dont think its out everywhere, its not out in sweden for example.


What is wrong at with the higher DPI settings?


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> What is wrong at with the higher DPI settings?


speaking for the kana, the higher DPI-steps are not real.
at 1600dpi, it moves by 2 pixels to achieve the speed of the cursor you expect from 1600dpi, but it is half as accurate as real 1600dpi.


----------



## pruik6

you guys like the button pressure from the kinzu v2 pro?
its pretty stiff not really at start as you using it on a day but when you play couple with hoyurs with it it feels like it gonna be more stiff







,maybe its just me don't know like the shapevery much that's very good point


----------



## sToBZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pruik6*
> 
> you guys like the button pressure from the kinzu v2 pro?
> its pretty stiff not really at start as you using it on a day but when you play couple with hoyurs with it it feels like it gonna be more stiff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ,maybe its just me don't know like the shapevery much that's very good point


That's my opinion on it as well, I own a couple of IMOs and the clicks just don't feel as good, they are harder to press and the distance to press them is just too damn small, it feels like pressing on a table, i think I'm gonna take it apart and cut 1 mm or so to widen the distance between the case and the switch.


----------



## pruik6

its a pretty smart idea ,but im not so smrt and don't have the tools to do that







,maybe i must return to salmosa they is very high distance.

It looks like the perfect mouse is never gonna be in the store's for me at least.
Always some things i don't like and then i buy different mouse i have like 25 gaming mouse and allready sold 10 last years


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> speaking for the kana, the higher DPI-steps are not real.
> at 1600dpi, it moves by 2 pixels to achieve the speed of the cursor you expect from 1600dpi, but it is half as accurate as real 1600dpi.


Pixart claims the sensor has a max native CPI value of 3200, but it's not very good. 1600 CPI registry value on the Kana (3200 on kinzu) should be "real", but I suppose it's just a marketing push to get companies on board. simple price : profit margin.


----------



## pruik6

guys i have a question. I know the kinzu v2 pro and kana have different switches kinzu omron and kana think TTC.
Has anyone felt them both and can say if the kana button pressure is lighter to push down then the kinzu v2 pro?

watched some vod from SS kana most say its very hard to click not really a problem but i own allready kinzu v2 pro its a lottle bit on the heavy side to press the main buttons. So if its lighter to press i buy it


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pruik6*
> 
> guys i have a question. I know the kinzu v2 pro and kana have different switches kinzu omron and kana think TTC.
> Has anyone felt them both and can say if the kana button pressure is lighter to push down then the kinzu v2 pro?
> watched some vod from SS kana most say its very hard to click not really a problem but i own allready kinzu v2 pro its a lottle bit on the heavy side to press the main buttons. So if its lighter to press i buy it


It's harder to press than omron.


----------



## pruik6

Okay thanks for reply. I think the shell from the mouse and the distance from the button to the bottom make more different in feeling then omron and TTC.
Its a trend to make the buttons as close as possible to the bottom should be faster in theory but for me it isn't.

I not go buy a mouse again for some time im pretty happy with kinzuv2 pro its has al my needs only =the buttons little to stiff maybe i just must learn the new feelings


----------



## avinin1

*I wondered how these mice turns out(Kana and Kinzu V2 PRO):
does the jump-bug is fixed already? its randomize or you can easily manual reproduce it?
How much m/s the lowest dpi can track without show negative/positive/skipping?
[the questions are for both Kinzu v2 PRO and KANA USERS*


----------



## pruik6

i have no kinzu v2 pro jump bug. Have updated last firmware think that solved the problem.
I think lowest dpi m/s you can find somewhere in these 127 pages ^^


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> It's harder to press than omron.


Yeah that was the nr1 reason I shelled my kana, the ttc are to hard/****ty









Omron for life, can BST release his mouse soon pls :/


----------



## SonDa5

Got my replacement feet and they feel a little smoother but they are not what I was expecting. I guess I have been spoiled by my Razer Deathadder which has nice hard rounded extremely smooth feet.

The Kana replacement feet are some type of teflon tape material that is smooth but is no where near smooth as my DA feet. Also something that I don't like about them is that the edges of the Kana feet is not smooth and it rubs and catches. Also when I pulled them off of the sheet that they came on they started to come apart.

So in short the Kana is an awesome mouse other than the feet are absolute garbage. As great as the mouse feels I can't stand the terrible glide.

I used a SS Experience I2 surface and it worked great with the DA, it is the best optical gaming surface I have ever had and I don't plan on getting rid of it.

I'm going to contact the retailer and let them know of the problems I have had with the feet and see if I can exchange this mouse for something different.


----------



## Huff

I picked up a brand new Kana for $35 and plan to switch out the switches with Omron D2F-01F. I also have some corepad skatez for the Kinzu that I never used so I should have no problem with the glide. Hopefully this mouse comes close to the feel of my favorite mouse of all time, the Microsoft 1.1.


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Huff*
> 
> I picked up a brand new Kana for $35 and plan to switch out the switches with Omron D2F-01F. I also have some corepad skatez for the Kinzu that I never used so I should have no problem with the glide. Hopefully this mouse comes close to the feel of my favorite mouse of all time, the Microsoft 1.1.


Are those corepad skates a rigid teflon material or are they like tape?


----------



## Huff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> Are those corepad skates a rigid teflon material or are they like tape?


These are the mouse feet I have http://www.coregamingshop.com/skatez-for-steelseries-kinzu-v2-pro-kinzu-kana.html

I have the same corepad skatez (Teflon material) on my Abyssus & G100, and they both have a smooth glide on my cloth pads. I'll have to check out the replacement feet from Steelseries (if mine don't come with the new ones). If they are the same material as the Sensei mouse feet I don't remember not really liking the glide.


----------



## Vikhr

Do the Corepads have sharp edges like Puretrak skates or are they rounded like Hyperglides?


----------



## SonDa5

Huff where did you get Kana for $35?


----------



## Huff

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> Huff where did you get Kana for $35?


use this coupon code on the Steelseries website PXE2012, I should of mentioned this earlier. It's for PAX EAST which starts friday. Sensei for $63 USD doesn't sound too bad.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vikhr*
> 
> Do the Corepads have sharp edges like Puretrak skates or are they rounded like Hyperglides?


I'll check when I get home but I would say they are more rounded like hyperglides, although i've never had a pair of puretrak skates.


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Huff*
> 
> use this coupon code on the Steelseries website PXE2012, I should of mentioned this earlier. It's for PAX EAST which starts friday. Sensei for $63 USD doesn't sound too bad.
> I'll check when I get home but I would say they are more rounded like hyperglides, although i've never had a pair of puretrak skates.


The crappy teflon TAPE Kana feet have sharp edges and they rub bad.


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Huff*
> 
> use this coupon code on the Steelseries website PXE2012


Thanks.

I'm returning my Kana to retailer for refund and I'm going to take a look at other SS mice.

I might even get another Kana and buy some feet for it like what you are doing.

It's a shame that the Kana mouse feet are so crappy.


----------



## SonDa5

That coupon didn't work out for me. Shipping is $10.







So I ordered a Kinzu v2 Pro. Supposedly it has better feet and switches. Ordered it from Amazon instead. The Amazon price was less than SS.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SonDa5*
> 
> That coupon didn't work out for me. Shipping is $10.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So I ordered a Kinzu v2 Pro. Supposedly it has better feet and switches. Ordered it from Amazon instead. The Amazon price was less than SS.


Did you visit the north american website?


----------



## SonDa5

Yes I did. Add $10 for shipping and the price is higher than Amazon's price.


----------



## Zwiebi

Ok, a week ago, I went through the whole topic, but it is still hard to get information, so I would be most grateful if someone could answer these questions about the Kinzu v2 Pro using the latest firmware.

-They fixed the jump bug, but have they fixed the bug with multi-coloured mousepads and the same bug, when you run off the mousepad? (Looking at the ground and spinning.)

-Perfect control (read 1.7-1.8 m/s before) and malfunction speed at 400 DPI. How does it behave, when you reach malfunction speed? Just skipping or looking at the ground spinning?

-Is there any issue with the bottom of the mouse, like scrapping the mousepad (happens on both my DA and Abyssus)?

-What is the LOD on plain black cloth mousepads (Goliathus Control, QcK+)?

Thanks in advance for the answers!


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zwiebi*
> 
> -Is there any issue with the bottom of the mouse, like scrapping the mousepad (happens on both my DA and Abyssus)?


i have experience with a Deathadder and did experience the bottom hitting on soft surfaces. My experience with DA is that it works much better with a hard surface.
I also have experience with the Kana which has low feet like the Kinzu. The feet are even lower than the DA feet so I think they will bottom out on soft clothe surface.

My Kinzu V2 Pro is on its way to me right now, will follow up with your question once I get it.


----------



## Nivity

I gave away my kinzu v2 pro ;> bought one even knowing I would not be able to use it, but my mouse fetish took over me.

And It was useless for me as I thought, way to low malfunction.

No BSTs mouse is the one im looking at now, looks perfect in every way.

Regarding the Kana feet, I bought corepad when I bought the mouse knowing the feet was the worst in any mice ever.
So it glides good, but the hard TTC buttons are not for me, omron all the way.
LOD with tape is 1-2 dvd on difference surfaces, without 4-5 ;O


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zwiebi*
> 
> -They fixed the jump bug, but have they fixed the bug with multi-coloured mousepads and the same bug, when you run off the mousepad? (Looking at the ground and spinning.)


Kinzu V2 never had a "jump" or "spinning" bug. It malfunctions way before you can trigger that bug







. The problem with multi-coloured pads is that you get different LODs on different areas of the mousepad. When the mouse is on a black area you get 2CD LOD, when you move over to a red area you get 3-4CDs. Other than that there is no tracking difference.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zwiebi*
> 
> -Perfect control (read 1.7-1.8 m/s before) and malfunction speed at 400 DPI. How does it behave, when you reach malfunction speed? Just skipping or looking at the ground spinning?


Just skipping.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zwiebi*
> 
> -Is there any issue with the bottom of the mouse, like scrapping the mousepad (happens on both my DA and Abyssus)?


No there isn't. If Kinzu would have this problem, then so would Xai, Sensei etc. All Steelseries skates have the same thickness. That's a Deathadder design flaw not a general problem with mice.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I gave away my kinzu v2 pro ;> bought one even knowing I would not be able to use it, but my mouse fetish took over me.
> No BSTs mouse is the one im looking at now, looks perfect in every way.


So the malfunction speed on Kinzu V2 is your problem, but you look forward to BST's mouse? Ever tried the CM Xornet or Logitech G300? The A3050 is, like Avago said, a "Small Form Factor Entry-Gaming Optical Navigation Sensor". There is no way you can have a malfunction speed of over 2m/s with that sensor, without ruining the tracking or having a 5-6CD LOD. People expecting it to have a "Deathadder like" performance are about to be disappointed. The 3050 is weak on a hardware level, not much you can do about that.


----------



## Skylit

Kinzu v2 did have the "jump bug".

PS: Xornet firmware isn't exactly amazing and Logitech didn't really spend a whole lot of time on their variation of the sensor from my point of view. (Decent IPS and a lift off of 3mm on black surfaces. Not that bad.)

The sensor is "weak" though. 500 CPI at best if you want to up the polling past 125hz.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> Kinzu V2 never had a "jump" or "spinning" bug. It malfunctions way before you can trigger that bug
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . The problem with multi-coloured pads is that you get different LODs on different areas of the mousepad. When the mouse is on a black area you get 2CD LOD, when you move over to a red area you get 3-4CDs. Other than that there is no tracking difference.
> Just skipping.
> No there isn't. If Kinzu would have this problem, then so would Xai, Sensei etc. All Steelseries skates have the same thickness. That's a Deathadder design flaw not a general problem with mice.
> So the malfunction speed on Kinzu V2 is your problem, but you look forward to BST's mouse? Ever tried the CM Xornet or Logitech G300? The A3050 is, like Avago said, a "Small Form Factor Entry-Gaming Optical Navigation Sensor". There is no way you can have a malfunction speed of over 2m/s with that sensor, without ruining the tracking or having a 5-6CD LOD. People expecting it to have a "Deathadder like" performance are about to be disappointed. The 3050 is weak on a hardware level, not much you can do about that.


Well ofc I will wait and see the test reports from the beta testers.
But he have tested the mouse "Prototype Enotus mouse test: 5.11m/s (201 IPS) depends how fast I can physically move the mouse, I haven't been able to make it malfunction yet:"

Havent tried the Xornet, its not available here in sweden so, and the G300 was nothing for me to buy due to ******ed shape


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Kinzu v2 did have the "jump bug".


Didn't knew that. Never triggered that bug though (Kinzu or Kana) in normal gaming.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> PS: Xornet firmware isn't exactly amazing and Logitech didn't really spend a whole lot of time on their variation of the sensor from my point of view.


After seeing so many failed attempts i came to the conclusion that any method of raising IPS above the hardware possibilities of a sensor is bound to have a bad effect on tracking quality/LOD. Am i wrong?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Decent IPS and a lift off of 3mm on black surfaces. Not that bad.


Don't know about G100 but G300 had a horrible tracking. Maybe it was only the uncentered censor, but there's definitely something wrong with that combination. On the other hand Xornet "felt" just like any other superior Avago sensors, except for that low malfunction speed.


----------



## end0rphine

I thought BST also had a 3090 version prototype that he's sending out to a few beta testers simultaneously with the 3050 version.


----------



## avinin1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> I thought BST also had a 3090 version prototype that he's sending out to a few beta testers simultaneously with the 3050 version.


Doesn't really matter.
If I dont wrong when the ADNS-3060 was out it was consider as mid end sensor too, and its actually one of the best sensors you can find but prediction.
Also, all avago sensors based on the same hardware more or less but diffrents SROMs and Firmwares from another companies and some using another lens and some another interapolate thier natives and such more things that can make mouse alot worse or alot better, its all depens in the end about money.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avinin1*
> 
> Doesn't really matter.
> If I dont wrong when the ADNS-3060 was out it was consider as mid end sensor too, and its actually one of the best sensors you can find but prediction.
> Also, all avago sensors based on the same hardware more or less but diffrents SROMs and Firmwares from another companies and some using another lens and some another interapolate thier natives and such more things that can make mouse alot worse or alot better, its all depens in the end about money.


But people are arguing over the history of 3050 mice. When you compare the history of 3090 mice, it seems to have more potential for greater tracking.


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avinin1*
> 
> Doesn't really matter.
> If I dont wrong when the ADNS-3060 was out it was consider as mid end sensor too, and its actually one of the best sensors you can find but prediction.


You didn't read my post. These are Avago's words not mine:
A3050 - Small Form Factor Entry-Gaming Optical Navigation Sensor
A3060 - High Performance Optical Mouse Sensor

Maybe they label their hardware for a reason? I don't think there is such thing as a "magic" SROM or firmware. Maybe you can increase IPS through custom lens or more expensive hardware, but you really think BST is going to do that? He chose this sensor because it's cheap to begin with and i'm a little skeptical his "crew" will be able to make a firmware that Logitech and CM wasn't. It's an interesting project i have to admit, but my expectations aren't that high. Instead i think we should look forward to Roccat Savu or CM Storm Recon.


----------



## Bullveyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> I thought BST also had a 3090 version prototype that he's sending out to a few beta testers simultaneously with the 3050 version.


That is correct.


----------



## Zwiebi

Hmm, LOD seems to be a bit problematic, but if I can reduce it to 2 CD on a black cloth mousepad, it should be fine.

Performance wise, is it behaving like the WMO? (I know, it has prediction and worse cursor quality, I meant the feeling of negative acceleration, the "feeling" of reaction to movement and smoothness.)


----------



## SonDa5

Just installed the Kinzu V2 Pro and the feet are identical to the Kana. The clearance is about the same which is very low and I think they might bottom out on a soft clothe surface.

They are working fine SS I-2 glass surface.
Will need to break in the mouse but right not the switches feel just a little lighter than the Kana.


----------



## DeMS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *avinin1*
> 
> Doesn't really matter.
> If I dont wrong when the ADNS-3060 was out it was consider as mid end sensor too, and its actually one of the best sensors you can find but prediction.
> Also, all avago sensors based on the same hardware more or less but diffrents SROMs and Firmwares from another companies and some using another lens and some another interapolate thier natives and such more things that can make mouse alot worse or alot better, its all depens in the end about money.


The whole family of 3060/3080/3090 (plus custom-made parts) share more a less the same hardware, as in the changes made are small and do not make a significant change (for example one change on the package was the LED). However the 3050 doesn't share the same architecture and package, so it should be thought of as a different sensor compared to the 3060-3090 line.

If bst's offer ends up with the 3090 sensor with the latest Avago SROM I will become a costumer for sure. It would need to have impressive tracking for me to take the 3050 offering.

Back on topic, it's a shame that the Kinzu v2 has so low PCS, shape is great.

How are the "pedicured" feet?


----------



## Skylit

According to a brochure I have, A3090 is a slightly bigger IC on the X axis. Y and Z are identical. (vs 3060/3080)

I'll check this out when I get home in a week or so.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> Didn't knew that. Never triggered that bug though (Kinzu or Kana) in normal gaming.
> After seeing so many failed attempts i came to the conclusion that any method of raising IPS above the hardware possibilities of a sensor is bound to have a bad effect on tracking quality/LOD. Am i wrong?
> Don't know about G100 but G300 had a horrible tracking. Maybe it was only the uncentered censor, but there's definitely something wrong with that combination. On the other hand Xornet "felt" just like any other superior Avago sensors, except for that low malfunction speed.


1) Lets just say the bug was an inherit issue that has now been updated and fixed.

2) Logitech doesn't use Avago's LED hardware other than the sensor itself. Decent IPS and lower lift off, but cursor quality isn't great. (custom lens/led setup contributed) Default CPI range (1000-1750-2500) and 500 hz hardware polling is just too much stress for a mere 2.4 megapixel/s (cmos size x fps). 125hz allows this sensor to become very manageable though. (Less updates/s) Sadly software polling overrides don't stick.

Comparison to ST MLT 04 @ 400~ CPI. 2.9 megapixels/s @ 6000 FPS , 4.3 megaxpixel/s @ 9000 FPS.

3) Above. It's a weaker sensor when dealing with Higher CPI/Polling combinations. Native 500 CPI setting of Xornet worked considerably decent right?







(aside from random IPS jumps on specific pads)


----------



## kaingosu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Native 500 CPI setting of Xornet worked considerably decent right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (aside from random IPS jumps on specific pads)


No! The malfunction speed was too low for my needs even at 500 CPI (and you probably remember i am fine even with the MLT04). Maybe not as low as Kinzu V2, but still. Are you saying if you use the Xornet at 125 Hz you get higher PCS?


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kaingosu*
> 
> No! The malfunction speed was too low for my needs even at 500 CPI (and you probably remember i am fine even with the MLT04). Maybe not as low as Kinzu V2, but still. Are you saying if you use the Xornet at 125 Hz you get higher PCS?


I meant cursor quality as you stated.


----------



## kaingosu

Yes! Cursor quality was great @500CPI, just like any A30X0 sensor. Much better than the Pixart sensor for example. Assuming CM used Avago lens/led and the speeds were still too low, i don't think a better firmware can help this sensor reach over 3 m/s. And if you use custom lens we all know what happens.


----------



## atluu

How does the Kinzu v2 compare to the Deathadder? Where can I find the white/black at?


----------



## SonDa5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atluu*
> 
> How does the Kinzu v2 compare to the Deathadder? Where can I find the white/black at?


To me it feels faster and easier to control. It could just be the size. I also found the Kana to feel faster and easier to control, again could be the size factor.

To me the actual accuracy in movements and aiming as far as FPS gaming is concerned is better with the Kana or the Kinzu v2 Pro.

I had a Razer DA BE since it first came out. I had a regular 3500 DPI DA before.

The feet on the Razer DA BE kicked ass. Super smooth.

The feet on the Kana and the Kinzu V2 are ok but next to the DA feet the Kinzu v2 PRo and Kana feet are garbage.


----------



## pnoozi

Got my red Kinzu v2 Pro today. I'm really pleased with the mouse.

Pros
- Excellent tracking (after driver/firmware update I have not experienced malfunction issue)
- Lightweight
- Excellent scroll wheel
- Simple design (perfect design for first-person shooters, really - middle button for switching DPI, nothing excessive, no excessive buttons to accidentally press)

Cons
- A little _too_ light (wish it was more like the 90g MX518)
- CPI can only be adjusted in increments of 400

I give this mouse a 9/10

Well done SteelSeries

Tested with QcK+ mouse pad at 800 CPI.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pnoozi*
> 
> - A little _too_ light (wish it was more like the 90g MX518)


MX518 90 g?? oO


----------



## Kalashnikov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pnoozi*
> 
> .................


May I ask u what's the color of SS logo on the mouse ? I checked on SS web and it's white but found out it's black in my country - Vietnam...


----------



## pnoozi

The logo is black along with the scroll wheel, etc.

The black Kinzu v2 Pro has white instead of black.


----------



## m1hka

Sorry if it was mentioned here, but what would happen if you use lens of Kana in Kinzu v2? Is it possible and how it would affect the malfunction speed etc.?


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m1hka*
> 
> Sorry if it was mentioned here, but what would happen if you use lens of Kana in Kinzu v2? Is it possible and how it would affect the malfunction speed etc.?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1183274/kinzu-v2-kinzu-v2-pro-and-kana/180


----------



## m1hka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Bullveyr*
> 
> He changed the Kinzu lens with the one from the Kana.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not just the lens. I had the bust open the plastic protector over the sensor itself. The 3305DK-H and 3305DK variate
Click to expand...

Didn't understand the last sentence.








And what about tracking of kanazu, do you like it, any jitter or other bug?


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m1hka*
> 
> Didn't understand the last sentence.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And what about tracking of kanazu, do you like it, any jitter or other bug?


The PAW3305DK has a different plastic insert than the PAW3305DK-H. (For lens magnification) You can swap both.

I don't use either mouse. Gave two Kana's away and started a project with the Kinzu shell.


----------



## m1hka

Ok, thank you.


----------



## OneCarlos

Hi!

Simple question: Kana or G400?

I have a SS Qck and I am palm grip. I have tried G500 and I don't like it cause the click in the middle move too much to the left when I click it in stress situation. I play Dota and some FPS. I have try also the Ikari Laser and love it. It was perfect except the price.

Other question, f I order a Kana does he will come with the new teflon fleet or I will need to contact SS service to give me one?

Thank You

PS: Sorry for my bad English and first post


----------



## Nivity

Palm? G400 without any doubt.

Regarding the feet its random.
I ordered my replacement feat when the news came out, have not heard jack **** about it since then.
And Can't fill out the form again.

Friend that bought the kana few weeks ago got the same plastic junk feat aswell.

G400 is better in every single way if your going into technical.
Shape is preference however.

Wheelclick on my G400 is perfect, no wobble or anything.
The shape kinda kills my clawgrip however ;/


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Wheelclick on my G400 is perfect, no wobble or anything.
> The shape kinda kills my clawgrip however ;/


I claw my G500 pretty much. *lol*


----------



## Kalashnikov

Could I replace the Kinzu V2/Kana buttons with those used in the Kinzu Red (D2F-01F), they're great ?


----------



## yzefeeR

Yes, you can.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kalashnikov*
> 
> Could I replace the Kinzu V2/Kana buttons with those used in the Kinzu Red (D2F-01F), they're great ?


yes, but you might have to sand something off of the sticks which press on the switches, to make them fit.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kalashnikov*
> 
> Could I replace the Kinzu V2/Kana buttons with those used in the Kinzu Red (D2F-01F), they're great ?


Well if your thinking Kinzu v2 why not just go the pro version with omron.


----------



## SonDa5

Kana and Kinzu both have terrible cheap thin tape like feet. Bad slide. Now with Ikari lazer which has great glide and very comfortable for right handers.


----------



## Kalashnikov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yzefeeR*
> 
> Yes, you can.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> yes, but you might have to sand something off of the sticks which press on the switches, to make them fit.


What about the Ampe, is it match ?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Well if your thinking Kinzu v2 why not just go the pro version with omron.


Actually I did; but since I knew that the Omron buttons used in Kinzu V2 Pro is made in China and exactly the same with DA's; I changed my mind. Further, I like the Orange ;so I'll take one and replace with the Omron Japan buttons. That's no problem for me. By the way, wonder why not Omron Japan for the Pro Edition like they used to


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kalashnikov*
> 
> What about the Ampe, is it match ?


it does match if you get omron d2f-01f (01 stands for ampere)


----------



## Kalashnikov

^
Yeah, that button is exactly the one I'll take


----------



## sofia

i love Kinzu v/2 Pro more, better for playing DOTA!!


----------



## jopy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OneCarlos*
> 
> Hi!
> Simple question: Kana or G400?
> I have a SS Qck and I am palm grip. I have tried G500 and I don't like it cause the click in the middle move too much to the left when I click it in stress situation. I play Dota and some FPS. I have try also the Ikari Laser and love it. It was perfect except the price.
> Other question, f I order a Kana does he will come with the new teflon fleet or I will need to contact SS service to give me one?
> Thank You
> PS: Sorry for my bad English and first post


u can check with your local store or distributor, my country i had to collect them from the distro for the kana feet replacement, the telfon feet feels much better than the default cheap plastic.


----------



## imagran

Does Kinzu v2 (not pro) black, has the same rubber coat as kinzu v1?

I mean Kinzu v2 pro black is glossy on top and rubber on sides. The thing is that you can clearly tell that the rubber on kinzu v2 pro has way more plastic in it compared to v1 (less rubbery, more plasticishhh). I want to know if that is true for rubber version of v2 also.


----------



## NuFon

I dont think the Kinzu v2 shares the same OEM as the Xai


----------



## tehort

Is the Kinzu v2 compatible with the Omron D2FC - F - 7N?
I've got 2 spare ones that I bought to replace the ones in my MX518, if I could use them it would be great...

I`d really like the V2 Pro, but the glossy thing, it's simply "bearable"... Not great as the rubber.


----------



## Skylit

The Kinzu v2 has a different (rubber) coating than the V1. I actually think its worse, but that's me.

The Switches are compatible.


----------



## tehort

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> The Kinzu v2 has a different (rubber) coating than the V1. I actually think its worse, but that's me.
> The Switches are compatible.


Would you say much worse?


----------



## imagran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tehort*
> 
> Would you say much worse?


the rubber diffrence from v1 to v2 pro on the sides is like from new teflon feet to 50% teflon and 50% plastic feet on kinzu v2 pro (fake teflon)
but thats just my opinnion


----------



## imagran

Bump
Is it possible to chang ethe lens from Kana to Kinzu v2 pro and make mouse work correctly?


----------



## Dunan

Just wondering if it's possible to change the sensitivity on these mice? Like different from the defaults (400/800/1600 etc)


----------



## pruik6

On the kinzu v2 pro you only the sensitivity's you call in your post other mouse i dont know.
ofcourse you can do windows sens on 5 with 800 dpi you get 600dpi.
But really change in driver you cant


----------



## tehort

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *imagran*
> 
> the rubber diffrence from v1 to v2 pro on the sides is like from new teflon feet to 50% teflon and 50% plastic feet on kinzu v2 pro (fake teflon)
> but thats just my opinnion


I've had the Kinzu v2 for a few days now, if my hands are clean, it's got absolutely no grip :x
Very slippery, It gets better after a few minutes of playing though...

Also, I didn't find the feets to be as bad as it's told, swapped with some corepads but, meh... They're both pretty similar on my Puretrak.


----------



## emka

I have a Kinzu v2 pro red se.. but I really have a problem with polling rate.. On 1000hz it exceeds 999 average, and on 500 it exceeds 499 average, never happened on my Kinzu v1,IMO 1.1 or WMO. Also this happens in Mouse Movement Recorder http://i.imgur.com/DPREj.jpg

And yes I have black mousepad.. is my mouse faulty?


----------



## thecolin

anyone giving away their kinzu v2 pro?!


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thecolin*
> 
> anyone giving away their kinzu v2 pro?!


lol, mine is in the box at my shelf, would never give away stuff to randoms though ;O


----------



## Skylit

Gave mine away to friends. ;o


----------



## thecolin

i'm no random! I'm a forum lurker, but no random.







I will trade Kana for it if you want


----------



## Nivity

Also have a kana in the box at the shelf.

Like the kinzu more thought due to switches.

But quality is as always random with ss latley, mousewheel rattles. But if you press it down hard it stop the rattle for like a day.

Feels like buying cheap OEM crap last purchases with ss :/


----------



## thecolin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> lol, mine is in the box at my shelf, would never give away stuff to randoms though ;O


Nivity! Lets talk


----------



## noamn

Hello!

I got the ss kana, and I want to change the left mouse button, to a lighter one, I have a lot of experience with soldering, but I don't know how to disassemble the mouse, and what kind of switch should I get ?

I'd appreciate some advice,

Thanks in advance


----------



## tehspirit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thecolin*
> 
> i'm no random! I'm a forum lurker, but no random.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will trade Kana for it if you want


why are you giving away kana?


----------



## grandpatzer

I'm considering either Kinzu V2 or Kinzu V2 pro, do you guys recommend it for someone with small hands?

Also I have read in this thread that the kinzu has crap sensor(?), I own a Zowie AM it has ADNS-3090 which I could butcher.
I find my zowie AM to be too long and the smalles part of the AM is too thin for my grip (58mm).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oranjoose*
> 
> Here's that video I said I'd make:


I just read youre nice review, from long finger to end of palm I'm 18cm also I usually have just thumb and little finger on side of the mouse and 3 fingers on top.

Looking at youre review the Kinzu has the best feel form moving but it has crap sensor so you instead like the Kana mouse because superior sensor?

Have you tried the Sensei? It looks same size as Kana and is the flagship mouse.

I currently have a Zowie AM but it's so thin my little finger and ring finger need to be on side for whenever I lift it.


----------



## Diogenes5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grandpatzer*
> 
> I'm considering either Kinzu V2 or Kinzu V2 pro, do you guys recommend it for someone with small hands?
> Also I have read in this thread that the kinzu has crap sensor(?), I own a Zowie AM it has ADNS-3090 which I could butcher.
> I find my zowie AM to be too long and the smalles part of the AM is too thin for my grip (58mm).
> I just read youre nice review, from long finger to end of palm I'm 18cm also I usually have just thumb and little finger on side of the mouse and 3 fingers on top.
> Looking at youre review the Kinzu has the best feel form moving but it has crap sensor so you instead like the Kana mouse because superior sensor?
> Have you tried the Sensei? It looks same size as Kana and is the flagship mouse.
> I currently have a Zowie AM but it's so thin my little finger and ring finger need to be on side for whenever I lift it.


The kinzuadder is very popular among FPS enthusiasts and has more of the properties you are looking for. It uses a deathadder PCB inside a kinzu.

I don't think you can butcher a zowie AM. Zowie uses a lot of custom stuff such as their scroll wheel and their switches. Huano switches are already awful inside the AM, they would probably be deplorable inside a kinzu.

The Kinzu sensor is not THAT bad; it is just not as good as the Avago-3090 (or 3088 if you make a kinzuadder). The kana and Kinzu v2 (pro or normal edition) both use a pixart sensor that exhibits a lot of jitter at high sensitivites but is ok at low sensitivities with no acceleration (but other issues like a weird malfunction at max velocity). The Kinzu is much lighter than the AM and the Kana is almost exactly the same as the lauded IMO 3.0 ergonomically (At least to me when I used it).

Do not consider the sensei if you are a competitive gamer that's coming from the Avago-3090. The Avago 9500 is a huge downgrade in terms of accuracy.

If the zowie AM is too thin for you, look into getting a Razer Abyssus, Roccat Savu, CM Storm Spawn/Xornet/Recon, or EC2 Evo. These are all about the same size and sport the most accurate Avago sensors. The kana is not that bad either but if the AM is too thin, its likeley the kinzu will be too.

I, myself, plan to get a kinzu v2 (non-pro because for some reason they don't produced a rubberized version of the pro v2) and replace its switches to some Japanese omrons (along with replace the feet for some teflon feet). This will complement my current EC2 Evo and Death Adder BE. I want to try a smaller mouse for SC2.

Anyways, all the best to you in your hunt.


----------



## nyso

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> The kinzuadder is very popular among FPS enthusiasts and has more of the properties you are looking for. It uses a deathadder PCB inside a kinzu.
> I don't think you can butcher a zowie AM. Zowie uses a lot of custom stuff such as their scroll wheel and their switches. Huano switches are already awful inside the AM, they would probably be deplorable inside a kinzu.
> The Kinzu sensor is not THAT bad; it is just not as good as the Avago-3090 (or 3088 if you make a kinzuadder). The kana and Kinzu v2 (pro or normal edition) both use a pixart sensor that exhibits a lot of jitter at high sensitivites but is ok at low sensitivities with no acceleration (but other issues like a weird malfunction at max velocity). The Kinzu is much lighter than the AM and the Kana is almost exactly the same as the lauded IMO 3.0 ergonomically (At least to me when I used it).
> Do not consider the sensei if you are a competitive gamer that's coming from the Avago-3090. The Avago 9500 is a huge downgrade in terms of accuracy.
> If the zowie AM is too thin for you, look into getting a Razer Abyssus, Roccat Savu, CM Storm Spawn/Xornet/Recon, or EC2 Evo. These are all about the same size and sport the most accurate Avago sensors. The kana is not that bad either but if the AM is too thin, its likeley the kinzu will be too.
> I, myself, plan to get a kinzu v2 (non-pro because for some reason they don't produced a rubberized version of the pro v2) and replace its switches to some Japanese omrons (along with replace the feet for some teflon feet). This will complement my current EC2 Evo and Death Adder BE. I want to try a smaller mouse for SC2.
> Anyways, all the best to you in your hunt.


I don't recommend you the kinzu v2 if you are planning to use it to play starcraft. To play SC2 you need hight sens and the kinzu v2 jitters a lot in high dpi setthings, though the shape is completly amazing.


----------



## grandpatzer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> The kinzuadder is very popular among FPS enthusiasts and has more of the properties you are looking for. It uses a deathadder PCB inside a kinzu.
> I don't think you can butcher a zowie AM. Zowie uses a lot of custom stuff such as their scroll wheel and their switches. Huano switches are already awful inside the AM, they would probably be deplorable inside a kinzu.
> The Kinzu sensor is not THAT bad; it is just not as good as the Avago-3090 (or 3088 if you make a kinzuadder). The kana and Kinzu v2 (pro or normal edition) both use a pixart sensor that exhibits a lot of jitter at high sensitivites but is ok at low sensitivities with no acceleration (but other issues like a weird malfunction at max velocity). The Kinzu is much lighter than the AM and the Kana is almost exactly the same as the lauded IMO 3.0 ergonomically (At least to me when I used it).
> Do not consider the sensei if you are a competitive gamer that's coming from the Avago-3090. The Avago 9500 is a huge downgrade in terms of accuracy.
> If the zowie AM is too thin for you, look into getting a Razer Abyssus, Roccat Savu, CM Storm Spawn/Xornet/Recon, or EC2 Evo. These are all about the same size and sport the most accurate Avago sensors. The kana is not that bad either but if the AM is too thin, its likeley the kinzu will be too.
> I, myself, plan to get a kinzu v2 (non-pro because for some reason they don't produced a rubberized version of the pro v2) and replace its switches to some Japanese omrons (along with replace the feet for some teflon feet). This will complement my current EC2 Evo and Death Adder BE. I want to try a smaller mouse for SC2.
> Anyways, all the best to you in your hunt.


I have rep+ you sir nice information









I think my grip is "clawgrip" as in Windows 7 using little finger and thumb on sides of mouse to move it, in counterstrike I must have ringfinger also on the side with littlefinger of mouse to be able to lift it (as I stated Zowie AM is too looooong and it is 58mm wide in the thinnest spot).

I'm not a "proffessional" player I just started playing online FPS before I have played lot's of single player FPS but now I've played 100hours of CS:GO and really like it.
I'm still trying to figure out what kind of sensitivity player I'm, for most part I played 2300dpi and 2.3 in game sensitivity this I belive is insanely fast, so for a shot time now I play at 2300dpi and 1.78 in CS:GO, I had 2 one hour session of Deathmatch with 1:1 KDR my KDR used to be about 0.79 this could also be because I have improved my aim and reflexes ofcourse aswell and not because of lower sensitivity...

I'm not entirely sure why the youtube video I posted claims Kana has better sensor(?!) compared to Kinzu if it is the same exact sensor?


----------



## pruik6

Nyso its not really true ,really depends what you prefer high sens or not.
If you know marineking he plays with 800 dpi and hes pretty good


----------



## Skylit

Even if a mouse utilizes the same sensor, performance and cursor fidelity will differ based on quality surrounding hardware and firmware. I'm not exactly fond of some solutions used by a few companies.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grandpatzer*
> 
> I'm not entirely sure why the youtube video I posted claims Kana has better sensor(?!) compared to Kinzu if it is the same exact sensor?


The original Kinzu had a very low cost sensor and hardware package propped in a gaming mouse.

The V2 uses the same sensor as the kana, but it's not quite the same performance due to magnification changes offered by the main manufacturer. Refer to my sticky for an explanation.

In terms of performance, the Kinzu v2 is quite fine @ 400-1600 DPI. Max speed performance is quite low peaking out around 70 IPS.

The Kana will do fine at 400 and 800 DPI. 1600 cursor accuracy is quite messy and the 3200 range is interpolated from that "messy" setting. In terms of max speed, it will do around 130 IPS. Quite fine for most gaming situations.

Judging by your settings the Kinzu v2 will be fine.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> I, myself, plan to get a kinzu v2 and *replace its switches to some Japanese omrons* (along with replace the feet for some teflon feet).


I actually wonder if you could successfully blind test a lot of 10 or so mice of the same model (different batches) and correctly pick the ones with japan branded D2F.









I'm leaning towards a very low chance ^^


----------



## grandpatzer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> Even if a mouse utilizes the same sensor, performance and cursor fidelity will differ based on quality surrounding hardware and firmware. I'm not exactly fond of some solutions used by a few companies.
> The original Kinzu had a very low cost sensor and hardware package propped in a gaming mouse.
> The V2 uses the same sensor as the kana, but it's not quite the same performance due to magnification changes offered by the main manufacturer. Refer to my sticky for an explanation.
> In terms of performance, the Kinzu v2 is quite fine @ 400-1600 DPI. Max speed performance is quite low peaking out around 70 IPS.
> The Kana will do fine at 400 and 800 DPI. 1600 cursor accuracy is quite messy and the 3200 range is interpolated from that "messy" setting. In terms of max speed, it will do around 130 IPS. Quite fine for most gaming situations.
> Judging by your settings the Kinzu v2 will be fine.
> I actually wonder if you could successfully blind test a lot of 10 or so mice of the same model (different batches) and correctly pick the ones with japan branded D2F.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm leaning towards a very low chance ^^


Thanks for you post much appreciated









I'm still a noob when it comes to online gaming, I'm still contemplating if I should keep my Zowie AM. In CS:GO ingame sensitivity is 1.57 and I tried with DPI 2300 on my mouse, this gives me 10cm for 360.

I actually played at 1150 dpi and 1.57 ingame now it is 20cm/360 but it feels slow as hell turning around and so on, I'm used to just move my wrist only but now with 1150dpi I have to use my arm which is not necessary a bad thing, my aim might have become slightly better at the cost of having a eternity to rotate lol


----------



## Kalashnikov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> Do not consider the sensei if you are a competitive gamer that's coming from the Avago-3090. *The Avago 9500 is a huge downgrade in terms of accuracy.*


You don't say...


----------



## grandpatzer

Someone posted that the Kinzu is just as thin as Zowie AM, I don not believe this is the case.

I own the Zowie AM and in bottom it is 65mm and in the tinnest spot it is 58mm, looking at this picture the Zowie AM is 4th from 2nd row and the Kinzu is last from 2nd row, now the kinzu has much less change in wideness compared to the AM, I would guess it is 64mm in bottom and maybe 61-62mm in thinnes spot.

I can get a brand new Kinzu V1 cheap, I'm considering also buying a used Razer DA and building myself a Kinzu adder if the feel of the Kinzu is good on my hand


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I actually wonder if you could successfully blind test a lot of 10 or so mice of the same model (different batches) and correctly pick the ones with japan branded D2F.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm leaning towards a very low chance ^^


I could find them with ease actually.
the responsiveness is alot different compared to D2-FC's, it also keeps the special feeling through different mice(kinzuadder and G400 here).
It's like the D2F-01f have no travel at all until they click .


----------



## Skylit

Or so you say.







I used to think I could tell the difference too!

Then... A few different batches of Omrons changed my perpective.

Lets just say I rather cherry pick some nice D2FC branded switches over taking random D2F's for a joy ride ^^


----------



## grandpatzer

I'm trying out playing FPS games with low sensitivity on my one color standard black SS Qck pad.

My understandin on the problem with Kinzu v2 Pro is malfunction to my understanding when making big swipes with arm(?).
Currently I'm trying out 30cm/360, but I might go even lower maybe even 60cm/360.

I guess att 60cm/360 at most I would make a 180 turn so 30cm in one big fast swipe maybe causes malfunction with the Kinzu v2 pro(?)

ps. I like the matte V2 but seems like the pro version has 50% teflon and omron switch meh meh.


----------



## r0ach

No mention of the Kana DoTA2 edition yet in this thread. Anyone know if it uses omron switches? It appears to have a rubber top and same feet as Kinzu v2 pro. http://steelseries.com/products/games/dota2/steelseries-kana-dota-2-edition-bundle


----------



## grandpatzer

I'm about the order a Kinzu V2 Pro, are all 3 colors same amount of glossines?

according this youtube video the Kinzu v2 pro silver is less glossy then kana.
But I like the colors Red and black v2 pro more but if the silver is less glossy I will buy that one instead.


----------



## noamn

............ anyone?


----------



## grandpatzer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *noamn*
> 
> Hello!
> I got the ss kana, and I want to change the left mouse button, to a lighter one, I have a lot of experience with soldering, but I don't know how to disassemble the mouse, and what kind of switch should I get ?
> I'd appreciate some advice,
> Thanks in advance


My understanding is that the Omron Japan is a popular switch on these forums.
I would imagine there is screw under mouse that needs to be unscrewed, they migh be hidden.

Most likely the warranty is voided.


----------



## noamn

I switched the original LMB TTC to a microsoft wmo switch button, I also shorted the shell-travel with few pieces of sellotape, so now the distance between the shell and the switch is much shorter.


----------



## thuNDa

in my experience, the tape will not stay where it should for long time.


----------



## noamn

I added some more after i took the picture and made sure it's attached


----------



## thuNDa

it's like it gets rubbed off from frequent buttonactivation.


----------



## EliteReplay

Hi im about to get the kinzu v2 White... have a few question

1- did they resolve the issue with the jump issue in this mouse, with a firmware?
2- i just use 800-900 dpi will i be ok? Playing Starcraft2 and BF3 mostly

any thought?


----------



## WarningHPB

Yes they did it was probably the first thing they fixed that and the mouse feet and if you use less than 800dpi you should be good.

its perfect for me since i play most fps's at 400dpi


----------



## hza

Right. On a mouse you should be forced to use lowest cpi setting to "work" properly. That's logic =)


----------



## Yori99

So here's the thing (hopefully I can get a response) I used to own the original Kinzu, loved the size and shape but came to realize and understand that the sensor was beyond ****ed (excuse my french) causing acceleration so I moved on to the DA, it's an amazing mouse, has amazing traction and control but the size just doesn't suit me, I love the claw grip and have pretty massive hands and love the kinzu so my question is does the Kinzu V2/Pro have the same control as the DA? I play on 400 dpi / 500Hz and in game CSS is 1.0, so fairly low and very controlled, I play other games like HoN/D3 ect on the same settings. I have a QCK+ mousepad.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luhz*
> 
> Tested out my Kana in paint and in a 30min CPMA match against bots. 400dpi/500hz.
> I couldn't get the jump bug to trigger in paint with the Kana. I don't think this is something I could miss, I got it to happen with the Kinzu V2 Pro and it was very noticeable.
> I don't play with the lowest sensitivities, but I didn't have any problems with control or malfunction speeds with the Kana. (2.8 sens / 400 dpi; ~37cm/360) I let Enotus run while I played and it read a maximum of 1.56m/s, so obviously I don't get that fast.
> I tried the same thing on the same settings with the Kinzu V2 Pro. I only played about 10min of CPMA because I could very easily hit the malfunction speed and it was intolerable (would jump my cursor down so I would be looking at the floor). Enotus read a maximum of 1.65m/s with the Kinzu V2 Pro, but I'm guessing that's only higher than the Kana because it reads incorrectly when the mouse malfunctions.


----------



## Yori99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*


So this is basically saying playing on a low sense like I do the new kinzu is still poop? Went from a acceleration problem to a low sense problem?....


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yori99*
> 
> So this is basically saying playing on a low sense like I do the new kinzu is still poop? Went from a acceleration problem to a low sense problem?....


Simply said, yes. You could try the Kana, which is using a different lens that causes higher Malfunction Speed, altough 1600 and 3200 dpi are interpolated but that doesnt matter for low Sensers.


----------



## JustinSane

Such a shame that the Kinzu has problems like that. They look so comfortable.


----------



## woll3

IDK, but maybe its possible to swap the Lenses of Kinzu v2 and kana without a mess.


----------



## Skylit

You need to swap the inner-protector piece of the sensor itself as well. Won't work otherwise.

I actually did this prior to release. DPI steps = 200-400-800-1600 (weak 3200 DPI registry)

800 DPI reg on kana is practically the kinzus 1600.


----------



## EliteReplay

someone told me that they fixed that issue with a firmware


----------



## Phos

No they fixed an issue where once in a while the cursor would jump a bit to the side.


----------



## Yori99

So next to the DA on my settings the Kana is the runner up? How does it fare size wise compared to the Kinzu? I know it's smaller than the DA but Ithe pictures on steelseries site are weird.

How does the sensei compare to the kana?


----------



## thuNDa

heh, the kana is suited for lowsens at 800DPI, it just doesn't have real 1600/3200DPI steps.


----------



## Yori99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> heh, the kana is suited for lowsens at 800DPI, it just doesn't have real 1600/3200DPI steps.


If you read my above post I play at 400dpi on my DA 500Hz, I just want to be sure that the mouse I get to replace this works for me... I loved the kinzu but it seems they still can't make even a second version without some form of acceleration problems.







I love the size and the shape it's just ******* amazing... I however do want to replace my DA because I'm tired of the size and weight, I want to go smaller but i want something that's going to work for me, it seems like the Kana might be the right option.


----------



## EliteReplay

so im ok playing with 800dpi kinzu?


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> heh, the kana is suited for lowsens at 800DPI, it just doesn't have real 1600/3200DPI steps.


The 1600 step on the Kana is the same *native* 3200 step on the Kinzu. Just a poor registry or limited processing power at the specific resolution.

Only interpolated or fake step is the 3200 (on Kana), which takes the already bad 1600 (3200) and interpolates it.

Confusing? Yes, though I agree that both the Kana and Kinzu should be limited to 800 and 1600 (Same registry) respectively.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> The 1600 step on the Kana is the same *native* 3200 step on the Kinzu. Just a poor registry or limited processing power at the specific resolution.
> Only interpolated or fake step is the 3200 (on Kana), which takes the already bad 1600 (3200) and interpolates it.
> Confusing? Yes, though I agree that both the Kana and Kinzu should be limited to 800 and 1600 (Same registry) respectively.


YOU MEAN kinzu = 800dpi and kana = 1600dpi


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> YOU MEAN kinzu = 800dpi and kana = 1600dpi


No, I mean Kana's 800 step is = the Kinzu's 1600 in terms of cursor fidelity.

Both mice will track respectively fine till 1600 DPI (Kinzu) and 800 DPI (Kana) Max IPS is of course lower on the Kinzu. Hardware trade off of speed and resolution.


----------



## Yori99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> No, I mean Kana's 800 step is = the Kinzu's 1600 in terms of cursor fidelity.
> Both mice will track respectively fine till 1600 DPI (Kinzu) and 800 DPI (Kana) Max IPS is of course lower on the Kinzu. Hardware trade off of speed and resolution.


All fancy info but would you be able to answer my questions in the last page? :/


----------



## Phos

If you're playing at 400 dpi the Kana is probably the better option, though I don't know the exact max speed you can expect.


----------



## dachef

Is it safe to get the Kinzu? Did they fix the sensor issues?


----------



## Skylit

Yes.


----------



## dachef

The width of the Kinzu and Kana are both exactly the same 64mm but the length of are different, 124mm vs 114mm. Is the 7 mm a huge difference? I tried the Sensei and it was too big for me. I want to get either the Kinzu or the Kana. I would rather get the smaller mouse but I love how the Kana looks and the colors it comes in. I use a claw grip and use a razer imperator. I click literally to the left of the scroll wheel right where it starts. I currently use a logitech g9x without the shell.

Edit: I check wiki but I just want to double check. The Kana and Kinzu use the same sensor correct? The only real different is the size? Off top but do you guys know if they fixed the Zowie Mico sensor issue?


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dachef*
> 
> The Kana and Kinzu use the same sensor correct? The only real different is the size? Off top but do you guys know if they fixed the Zowie Mico sensor issue?


Same Sensor, different Lens, Kana has half the CPI of the Kinzu, but twice the malfunction Speed, and imo both are nearly the same to grip,

altough i find Kana more comfortable because its side go more |__|, instead of \__/ on the Kinzu.


----------



## MrFerrari

I bought a Kinzu V2 Pro, it was horrible. The tracking felt very unprecise, the scrollwheel was very flimsy and it measured very bad in every way. The pollingrate was very uneven.


----------



## dachef

Do you have experience with the Kana? What mouse did you have before you bought the Kinzu?


----------



## MrFerrari

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dachef*
> 
> Do you have experience with the Kana? What mouse did you have before you bought the Kinzu?


Zowie EC1 evo, EC2 evo, AM, Deathadder 3,5g, g400, Qpad 5k, Steelseries Xai.


----------



## EliteReplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrFerrari*
> 
> I bought a Kinzu V2 Pro, it was horrible. The tracking felt very unprecise, the scrollwheel was very flimsy and it measured very bad in every way. The pollingrate was very uneven.


well sorry for that man, but pretty much looks like you got a bad one... i have a kinzu v2 no pro edition and i love it


----------



## zulk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> well sorry for that man, but pretty much looks like you got a bad one... i have a kinzu v2 no pro edition and i love it


I had a kinzu v2 pro, and it sucked, there was sensor lag and positive accel beyond 2ms speed, there was a youtube vid showing the problem as well, the build quality was so-so, the switches and scroll wheel though felt pretty good though.


----------



## zulk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EliteReplay*
> 
> well sorry for that man, but pretty much looks like you got a bad one... i have a kinzu v2 no pro edition and i love it


I had a kinzu v2 pro, and it sucked, there was sensor lag and positive accel beyond 2ms speed, there was a youtube vid showing the problem as well, the build quality was so-so, the switches and scroll wheel though felt pretty good though. *** quad post :\


----------



## Regi

Is kimrom still with us?

I've purchased recently kana and want to provide some feedback.

About SS Engine:

- every time I launch it/expand its window, scroll wheel LED starts to glow with max. power. Even if my current profile is marked with no light/low intensity light. Seems like a bug.
- I don't switch CPI and would like to use CPI switch button as an extra utility button. But SS Engine doesn't provide such possibility.
- it will be cool to have more CPI values, not only 400-800-1600-3200.

About mouse itself:

- right side button sux. IMO it is obvious that mice for righties must have utility buttons on left side and vice versa for lefties. "Fully ambidextrous" desigin is a compromise and doesn't fully satisfy either righties nor lefties.

Mouse is nice nevertheless


----------



## Robobot

Just a quick couple of questions: Does the Kinzu V2 Pro have sensor issues at 400 dpi? And can you actually turn off the acceleration? I've heard both yes and no. Thanks!


----------



## sandywind

I love the smooth sides of the Kinzu v2, but that mouse is somewhat short and the switches of the non Pro version are hard to press. I'd like to try the Kana v2, however I fear that the side buttons make it uncomfortable for the ring finger. The side buttons have been shaped in a very smooth way, but there is an apparently wide gap around each button. Is that gap perceptible by touch? Does it hurt?


----------



## shin4649

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sandywind*
> 
> I love the smooth sides of the Kinzu v2, but that mouse is somewhat short and the switches of the non Pro version are hard to press. I'd like to try the Kana v2, however I fear that the side buttons make it uncomfortable for the ring finger. The side buttons have been shaped in a very smooth way, but there is an apparently wide gap around each button. Is that gap perceptible by touch? Does it hurt?


Definitely perceptible by touch. It doesn't hurt at all though. The only real problem I have is that the side buttons are HUGE, and because there's a gaping gap (ha-ha) around it, it's extremely easy to press it by accident with your ring finger depending on how you grip your mouse. That has been a minor issue for me though. The shape and sensor is just perfect otherwise. Although.... the surface could use some improvements. I'll probably try to Plasti Dip it or something.


----------



## reddy89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shin4649*
> 
> Definitely perceptible by touch. It doesn't hurt at all though. The only real problem I have is that the side buttons are HUGE, and because there's a gaping gap (ha-ha) around it, it's extremely easy to press it by accident with your ring finger depending on how you grip your mouse. That has been a minor issue for me though. The shape and sensor is just perfect otherwise. Although.... the surface could use some improvements. I'll probably try to Plasti Dip it or something.


Agreed. Side buttons are horrible. Either have it like the Sensei or don't have any at all. That and the sensor position needs to be centered. My only complaints about it.


----------



## sandywind

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shin4649*
> 
> it's extremely easy to press it by accident with your ring finger depending on how you grip your mouse.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reddy89*
> 
> Either have it like the Sensei or don't have any at all.


My ring finger is almost straight and touches the mouse side completely from tip to base in a palm grip. Using the CM Storm Recon, the side buttons are almost exactly under it. Would it be different with the Sensei? Buying a Sensei is also an option. I am not overly concerned about acceleration.


----------



## Bashslash

Got this as my results http://imgur.com/YxGt7o0


----------

