# Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion



## cstkl1

*Download Links*

Intel Data Sheet 12th Gen









655258-001.pdf


PDF File



1drv.ms





Benchmate 











https://dl.benchmate.org/bm-0.10.9.0-preview1.exe


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## cstkl1

3dmark runs - RTX 3080 | 6400C361T

PR 13203








I scored 13 203 in Port Royal


Intel Core i9-12900KF Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 x 1, 32614 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com





TS 20636 (20292|22837)








I scored 20 636 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-12900KF Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 x 1, 32614 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com





FS - 42722 (49602|44669|20290)








I scored 42 722 in Fire Strike


Intel Core i9-12900KF Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 x 1, 32614 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com


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## Gandyman

I have a m14h and 12900k reserved. Uncertain about how to get ddr5 in aus, no one has been able to get me any info


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## cstkl1

Gandyman said:


> I have a m14h and 12900k reserved. Uncertain about how to get ddr5 in aus, no one has been able to get me any info


ddr5 chip shortage. most reviewers are using micron 4800 kit.


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## Betroz

Good luck to those who will be going for ADL from the start :

*DDR5 memory, according to MSI, will cost 50 to 60 percent more than DDR4 memory.*








DDR5 memory, according to MSI, will cost 50 to 60 percent more than DDR4 memory.


Memory manufacturers are hard at work supplying new modules to retailers while motherboard manufacturers steadily unveil their plans for the next-generation Intel 600 series chipsets. ...




www.guru3d.com





Yikes...


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## kairi_zeroblade

Betroz said:


> Good luck to those who will be going for ADL from the start :
> 
> *DDR5 memory, according to MSI, will cost 50 to 60 percent more than DDR4 memory.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DDR5 memory, according to MSI, will cost 50 to 60 percent more than DDR4 memory.
> 
> 
> Memory manufacturers are hard at work supplying new modules to retailers while motherboard manufacturers steadily unveil their plans for the next-generation Intel 600 series chipsets. ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.guru3d.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yikes...


I am hugging my b-die kit right now..hahaha..*hope *DDR4 boards come out as an alternative/viable solution..


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## Gandyman

Australian prices are going to be crazy ... maximus hero at 1200 AUD, formula at 1800 AUD and extreme at 2400 AUD =x ... Anyone in the market for a kidney?


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## eeroo94

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451105188643672069


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## 2500k_2

400 wt . Not bad.


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## Denvys5

300W SSE? Isnt that insane? Comparing to ambient cooling clocks, its harder than CML could do... Its more than X299 could do... 3175X... maybe...like 4.5gig allcore?


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## fray_bentos

Gandyman said:


> Australian prices are going to be crazy ... maximus hero at 1200 AUD, formula at 1800 AUD and extreme at 2400 AUD =x ... Anyone in the market for a kidney?


Try this guy, 'Heaviest' kidneys removed in high-risk operation


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## Section31

Betroz said:


> Good luck to those who will be going for ADL from the start :
> 
> *DDR5 memory, according to MSI, will cost 50 to 60 percent more than DDR4 memory.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DDR5 memory, according to MSI, will cost 50 to 60 percent more than DDR4 memory.
> 
> 
> Memory manufacturers are hard at work supplying new modules to retailers while motherboard manufacturers steadily unveil their plans for the next-generation Intel 600 series chipsets. ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.guru3d.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yikes...


expected.


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## Section31

cstkl1 said:


> ddr5 chip shortage. most reviewers are using micron 4800 kit.


I suspected the chip shortage would be on ram side. CPU and mobo shouldn't be bad though, Just matter of waiting and paying for the ram. In Canada, that will be hell, Newegg is only one that carries that high speed ram.


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## cstkl1

Section31 said:


> I suspected the chip shortage would be on ram side. CPU and mobo shouldn't be bad though, Just matter of waiting and paying for the ram. In Canada, that will be hell, Newegg is only one that carries that high speed ram.


boise, idaho not that far away....


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## Section31

cstkl1 said:


> boise, idaho not that far away....


I might have to try sourcing some component from HK if ram shortage is real lol.


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## jayfkay

Spoiler






cstkl1 said:


>





All these Dies.... do we have any knowledge whatsoever which one of these are going to perform? If those new Samsung B-Dies are anything like their predecessors, their 4800 Kit might easily reach 6600+.




kairi_zeroblade said:


> *hope *DDR4 boards come out as an alternative/viable solution..


theyve been known to exist since weeks. Asus, MSI and ASRock had their lineup leaked already too. DDR4 alternatives are always a tad cheaper and the high end boards are all DDR5.
I honestly think, considering everything we know, that having superclocked DDR4 B-Dies might be quite superior to DDR5 for a while.


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## Section31

jayfkay said:


> All these Dies.... do we have any knowledge whatsoever which one of these are going to perform? If those new Samsung B-Dies are anything like their predecessors, their 4800 Kit might easily reach 6600+.
> 
> 
> 
> theyve been known to exist since weeks. Asus, MSI and ASRock had their lineup leaked already too. DDR4 alternatives are always a tad cheaper and the high end boards are all DDR5.
> I honestly think, considering everything we know, that having superclocked DDR4 B-Dies might be quite superior to DDR5 for a while.


We will find out pretty soon lol.


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## airisom2

I would consider Alder lake if there was a 12900k without the little cores.


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## jayfkay

You can disable the little cores, not the big ones tho.


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## airisom2

jayfkay said:


> You can disable the little cores, not the big ones tho.


But you can't do the same for the price jump. Not much point in paying for something I'm not going to use.


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## jayfkay

Overclocked Intel i9-12900K Beats Ryzen 5950X But at a Huge Power Cost!


We've already seen more than a few benchmarks leak online suggesting that the Intel i9-12900K is going to help the firm retain its position as the King (or Queen if you prefer) of the single-core performance stakes. The results, however, were not quite so encouraging in terms of multi-core...



www.eteknix.com


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## RobertoSampaio

Waiting for November 4th! lol


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## cstkl1

jayfkay said:


> All these Dies.... do we have any knowledge whatsoever which one of these are going to perform? If those new Samsung B-Dies are anything like their predecessors, their 4800 Kit might easily reach 6600+.
> 
> 
> 
> theyve been known to exist since weeks. Asus, MSI and ASRock had their lineup leaked already too. DDR4 alternatives are always a tad cheaper and the high end boards are all DDR5.
> I honestly think, considering everything we know, that having superclocked DDR4 B-Dies might be quite superior to DDR5 for a while.


waiting for high bin hynix. this might be very expensive as hynix has huge variation

go ddr5 , no such thing as "superclocked ddr4" .. dont expect a asus prime to do 3866c14- 1T


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## ozlay

airisom2 said:


> I would consider Alder lake if there was a 12900k without the little cores.


Isn't that the 12600k?


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## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> dont expect a asus prime to do 3866c14- 1T


I don't know how 3866 but 3733 cr1 is possible on b560 asus prime in Gear 1


Spoiler: 3733cr1 prime


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## Techie007

ozlay said:


> airisom2 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would consider Alder lake if there was a 12900k without the little cores.
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't that the 12600k?
Click to expand...

No, it only has six P-cores, so you lose two. Your best bet would be the i7-12700k CPU; you would get all eight P-cores and only four E-cores. Think of it as a CPU that can handle all your background tasks and services with E-cores so that all eight P-cores are fully available for multithreaded work/rendering/processing/encoding. However, I do understand the sentiment about the i9; just like with 11th-gen, it feels like Intel gimped out on the i9 to where it's nothing more than a glorified i7 instead of actually having more actual/P cores!


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## jayfkay

+4 gravemont cores, 0.3 ghz boost frequency and bigger l3 cache.
but in the multicore geekbench the difference was rather marginal (26k vs 23k)


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## carlhil2

Little cores are overclockable.


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## Techie007

I wonder if it has two Vcore rails... If not, that was a major oversight; but if so, OH BOY here comes the fun with nailing down a stable overclock on both sets of cores with their different multipliers and voltages, and trying to figure out which one was responsible for any random crashes!


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## cstkl1

Techie007 said:


> I wonder if it has two Vcore rails... If not, that was a major oversight; but if so, OH BOY here comes the fun with nailing down a stable overclock on both sets of cores with their different multipliers and voltages, and trying to figure out which one was responsible for any random crashes!


its not hard.

asus tends to make boards noob friendly


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## Tehone

Section31 said:


> I might have to try sourcing some component from HK if ram shortage is real lol.


im outside spokane and coeur d alene, id be down to grab it for you, or you can have it shipped here then you come grab it as long as you have your passport


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## Nizzen

Can't wait to benchmark 12900k. The question is if I can get a lga 1700 bracket for my EK waterblocks in time....


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## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Can't wait to benchmark 12900k. The question is if I can get a lga 1700 bracket for my EK waterblocks in time....


no need

Retail cpu and boards are he in MY. No MRSP on the cpu and boards yet.

Intel cpu MY mrsp = usd mrsp normally


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## Nizzen

Looks like G.skill is using Samsung for DDR 5:
I hope these samsung IC is overclocking like crazy, like ddr4 b.die 

"At this point, G.Skill has only announced that the DDR5-6600 versions of its Trident Z5 and Trident Z5 RGB will be available in 32GB kits (2x16GB), all of which use Samsung ICs. The company even posted a screenshot showing validation of the memory kits at full speed to back up its claims."


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## epic1337

jayfkay said:


> +4 gravemont cores, 0.3 ghz boost frequency and bigger l3 cache.
> but in the multicore geekbench the difference was rather marginal (26k vs 23k)


its actually quite close to the increase in thread count no?
a 20% increase in thread count and 6% increase in clock speed resulted in a ~13% increase in multi-threaded performance.

whats curious however is how E-cores can contribute towards multi-thread performance without robbing the P-cores of power and heat budget.


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## 2500k_2

Guys, I have bad news for you. Alderlake will be very hot.
Here in the picture is a section of the BIOS ms z690 Unify-X
cpu current limit *512 A


Spoiler: z690














*

for comparison on the 10th and 11th generation *256 A


Spoiler: z590














*
Icc max is too big. in such stress tests as Linx, which fully loads the processor by 100 percent, there will be very high heat dissipation
(you can calculate it yourself P max = Icc max * Vcore load)

Perhaps I am mistaken and such a large Iccmax will be used only in a single-core boost, and when all cores are loaded, its limit will be automatically reduced by the internal processor regulators.
But still, I wanted to test the stability of the processor normally, and not just cinebench or "only games". LinX is a great tool that will immediately show problems without long 24/7 tests. Intel uses it themselves.


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## airisom2

With Zen3D coming in a few months, it probably won't beat AL in single thread, but multithread will most likely be AMD's with all of that cache. It'll also consume a lot less power, it's on a mature platform with DDR4 at its peak, and it has good 3rd party options to dial the system in. 

E cores on AL are just a gimmick on desktop systems, and without Gracemont, Intel can't compete with AMD in multithread and be within a reasonable TDP, if you can call 300w+ on a mainstream platform reasonable. PCIe 5.0 boards won't be cheap, DDR5 is expensive and unoptimized, and Intel's 10nm aka 7 is HOTTT. It won't be cheap taming those temperatures. 

AL will be nice for benchmarkers since that single thread is really nice for scores, but that's about it imo. All other use-cases, Zen3D is a better overall option.


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## Section31

airisom2 said:


> With Zen3D coming in a few months, it probably won't beat AL in single thread, but multithread will most likely be AMD's with all of that cache. It'll also consume a lot less power, it's on a mature platform with DDR4 at its peak, and it has good 3rd party options to dial the system in.
> 
> E cores on AL are just a gimmick on desktop systems, and without Gracemont, Intel can't compete with AMD in multithread and be within a reasonable TDP, if you can call 300w+ on a mainstream platform reasonable. PCIe 5.0 boards won't be cheap, DDR5 is expensive and unoptimized, and Intel's 10nm aka 7 is HOTTT. It won't be cheap taming those temperatures.
> 
> AL will be nice for benchmarkers since that single thread is really nice for scores, but that's about it imo. All other use-cases, Zen3D is a better overall option.


Intel always like that. It gives us reason for us crazy watercoolers to exist. Why else do you need caselabs sma8a cases with multiple 560mm rads and external radiator setups.


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## JSHamlet234

2500k_2 said:


> Guys, I have bad news for you. Alderlake will be very hot.
> Here in the picture is a section of the BIOS ms z690 Unify-X
> cpu current limit *512 A
> 
> 
> Spoiler: z690
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2529643
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> for comparison on the 10th and 11th generation *256 A
> 
> 
> Spoiler: z590
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2529644
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Icc max is too big. in such stress tests as Linx, which fully loads the processor by 100 percent, there will be very high heat dissipation
> (you can calculate it yourself P max = Icc max * Vcore load)
> 
> Perhaps I am mistaken and such a large Iccmax will be used only in a single-core boost, and when all cores are loaded, its limit will be automatically reduced by the internal processor regulators.
> But still, I wanted to test the stability of the processor normally, and not just cinebench or "only games". LinX is a great tool that will immediately show problems without long 24/7 tests. Intel uses it themselves.


That's just maxed out motherboard settings, not the spec of the chip. Look at what the power limit is set to.


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## OC-NightHawk

airisom2 said:


> But you can't do the same for the price jump. Not much point in paying for something I'm not going to use.


Maybe at some point it will end up like integrated graphics and there will be the equivalent of the f model for this feature?


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## Section31

Nizzen said:


> Can't wait to benchmark 12900k. The question is if I can get a lga 1700 bracket for my EK waterblocks in time....


Optimus is lga1700 ready.


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## RobertoSampaio

Section31 said:


> Intel always like that. It gives us reason for us crazy watercoolers to exist. Why else do you need caselabs sma8a cases with multiple 560mm rads and external radiator setups.


I think if you use all the MB resources, LLC, AC_LL, DC_LL, OCTVB, Adaptive voltage, By core usage, C-states, VF curves....
You can get very nice results with low temps...
For my 10900K a 280mm AIO is perfect....

I can't wait for the 12900k... LOL


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## 2500k_2

Just look at this VRM . As far as I can see there is no connector for iGpu / So all phases feed the processor Cores.
















Does everyone already have a chiller?


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## ozlay

Will there be an all little core version?


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## Section31

cstkl1 said:


> waiting for high bin hynix. this might be very expensive as hynix has huge variation
> 
> go ddr5 , no such thing as "superclocked ddr4" .. dont expect a asus prime to do 3866c14- 1T


I agree also. Eagerly awaiting alderlake. 

The only thing holding me back is the custom keyboard scene lol. It’s like gpu scene but people resell the things like hot potatoes (always new custom groupbuy, etc) but you don’t lose money on it in general at the high end.


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## Section31

ozlay said:


> Will there be an all little core version?


There are kf models
12900k. - 8 golden cove plus 8 gracemont
12700k - 8 golden cove plus 4 gracemont
12600k - 6 golden plus 4 gracemont
12400 - 6 golden
Under is i don’t remember. Probably some in i3 lineup i assume


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## Nizzen

Section31 said:


> Optimus is lga1700 ready.


I actually preordered EK lga 1700 waterblock today


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## Nizzen

2500k_2 said:


> Just look at this VRM . As far as I can see there is no connector for iGpu / So all phases feed the processor Cores.
> View attachment 2529683
> 
> View attachment 2529684
> 
> Does everyone already have a chiller?


Apex has no igpu for even better performance.
Apex ♡


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## D-EJ915

Apex getting more and more unnecessary shields every revision lol.


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## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Apex has no igpu for even better performance.
> Apex ♡


if u see the apex etc board. theres a button









press .. the gpu pcie lock switch released.

active backplate issue solved

another thing other aib will copy from now on.


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## chibi

cstkl1 said:


> if u see the apex etc board. theres a button
> View attachment 2529730
> 
> 
> press .. the gpu pcie lock switch released.
> 
> active backplate issue solved
> 
> another thing other aib will copy from now on.


Very convenient. Nice open area beside the internal USB-C port too. I can't tell you how many times I clench when I take a long flat head to the PCI-E lock to unlatch my gpu, LOL.


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## Section31

chibi said:


> Very convenient. Nice open area beside the internal USB-C port too. I can't tell you how many times I clench when I take a long flat head to the PCI-E lock to unlatch my gpu, LOL.


i always loved apex. my x299 apex was nice


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## cstkl1

chibi said:


> Very convenient. Nice open area beside the internal USB-C port too. I can't tell you how many times I clench when I take a long flat head to the PCI-E lock to unlatch my gpu, LOL.


lets see how many aib copy a simple thing

its on all rog boards so far..


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## Section31

cstkl1 said:


> lets see how many aib copy a simple thing
> 
> its on all rog boards so far..


Indeed. Apex was always the reasonable priced high end board. Basically near/as good as the top tier asus mobo but without rgb/etc stuff to reduce costs.


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## chibi

Only thing missing from Apex is thunderbolt on the i/o panel. Having to use a pcie card for thunderbolt is a bit inconvenient.


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## cstkl1

chibi said:


> Only thing missing from Apex is thunderbolt on the i/o panel. Having to use a pcie card for thunderbolt is a bit inconvenient.


??? how did u see that.,


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## chibi

cstkl1 said:


> ??? how did u see that.,


When comparing with current ASUS z590, you will find the boards such as Extreme/Hero XIII will have the Lightning symbol by their USB-C connector. This is Thunderbolt 4.0.

I looked at the current leak of the z690 APEX and did not find it. Cross referencing the past Apex models, they did not have them either. My Apex XI and XIII does not have Thunderbolt connectivity.


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## cstkl1

chibi said:


> When comparing with current ASUS z590, you will find the boards such as Extreme/Hero XIII will have the Lightning symbol by their USB-C connector. This is Thunderbolt 4.0.
> 
> I looked at the current leak of the z690 APEX and did not find it. Cross referencing the past Apex models, they did not have them either. My Apex XI and XIII does not have Thunderbolt connectivity.
> 
> View attachment 2529745


ic. btw its maximus z690 no more roman numerals.


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## fray_bentos

jayfkay said:


> All these Dies.... do we have any knowledge whatsoever which one of these are going to perform? If those new Samsung B-Dies are anything like their predecessors, their 4800 Kit might easily reach 6600+.
> 
> 
> 
> theyve been known to exist since weeks. Asus, MSI and ASRock had their lineup leaked already too. DDR4 alternatives are always a tad cheaper and the high end boards are all DDR5.
> I honestly think, considering everything we know, that having superclocked DDR4 B-Dies might be quite superior to DDR5 for a while.


Except you might be running DDR4 with the crappy latency of 11th Gen. Even the higher freq DDR5 latencies shown so far look poor. I do worry that gaming performance is going to be held back due to IMC implementation as was the case with 11th Gen. Soaring CPU-Z and other CPU benchmark scores, but little to show on the gaming side.


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## cstkl1

fray_bentos said:


> Except you might be running DDR4 with the crappy latency of 11th Gen. Even the higher freq DDR5 latencies shown so far look poor. I do worry that gaming performance is going to be held back due to IMC implementation as was the case with 11th Gen. Soaring CPU-Z and other CPU benchmark scores, but little to show on the gaming side.


dont worry about fps.. not a apples to apples comparison.
go ddr5. go 1T


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## musician

fray_bentos said:


> Except you might be running DDR4 with the crappy latency of 11th Gen. Even the higher freq DDR5 latencies shown so far look poor. I do worry that gaming performance is going to be held back due to IMC implementation as was the case with 11th Gen. Soaring CPU-Z and other CPU benchmark scores, but little to show on the gaming side.


You really can´t compare DDR4 vs DDR5 that way. This just sounds like you were not there while transition like DDR2 to DDR3, or DDR3 to DDR4 etc. Every new generation has increased latency. Yet the performance is night and day.


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## fray_bentos

musician said:


> You really can´t compare DDR4 vs DDR5 that way. This just sounds like you were not there while transition like DDR2 to DDR3, or DDR3 to DDR4 etc. Every new generation has increased latency. Yet the performance is night and day.


You are correct about DDR2 to DDR3, because in those days, data throughput (not latency), was the bottleneck. In contrast, there was no "night and day" difference from DDR3 to DDR4 until 2-3 years after the launch of DDR4.



cstkl1 said:


> dont worry about fps.. not a apples to apples comparison.
> go ddr5. go 1T


Whut? FPS is _THE_ apples to apples comparison for a gamer.


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## musician

fray_bentos said:


> You are correct about DDR2 to DDR3, because in those days, data throughput (not latency), was the bottleneck. In contrast, there was no "night and day" difference from DDR3 to DDR4 until 2-3 years after the launch of DDR4.
> 
> 
> 
> Whut? FPS is _THE_ apples to apples comparison for a gamer.


This is new architecture, large cache etc. Hold your assumptions till real gaming benches.


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## cstkl1

fray_bentos said:


> You are correct about DDR2 to DDR3, because in those days, data throughput (not latency), was the bottleneck. In contrast, there was no "night and day" difference from DDR3 to DDR4 until 2-3 years after the launch of DDR4.
> 
> 
> 
> Whut? FPS is _THE_ apples to apples comparison for a gamer.


ok what games u want? the fps.


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## ScomComputers

I am looking forward to it....the packaging is beautiful !


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## ScomComputers

12600K....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451899009786789890


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## dagget3450

I'll never pretend to understand why people even give a care about "packaging".(any brand)

You going to put the box on display and take it to bed at night?

Some people just are perfect for marketing...


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## Falkentyne

ScomComputers said:


> 12600K....
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451899009786789890


What the hell that's faster than a 11900k......


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## Nizzen

This is not Guru3d forums.....
On topic starts here ----》


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## i9forever

domdtxdissar said:


> Right on topic


Good effort, but considering Alder Lake use poor DDR4 in the videos, it says really nothing. With the DDR5 the Alder Lake is gonna smokes everything.


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## jayfkay

The lows look pretty worrying, but the bench didn't specify which windows is used and doesn't show average FPS at the end :/ 
And so we wait for better benchmarks. 


i9forever said:


> it says really nothing.


thats just ignorant tho


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## geriatricpollywog

I’m thinking of picking up a DDR4 board and 12700K for LN2.


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## JSHamlet234

GPU usage was 95% or higher for the duration of those game benchmarks. I wonder what the results would have been with a stronger graphics card.


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## cstkl1

JSHamlet234 said:


> GPU usage was 95% or higher for the duration of those game benchmarks. I wonder what the results would have been with a stronger graphics card.


what video are you talking about?
that video above?? its a fake


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## JSHamlet234

cstkl1 said:


> what video are you talking about?


All of them, most of the time.


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## cstkl1

JSHamlet234 said:


> All of them, most of the time.


all fake. got to be silly for a person to post it here thinking it was real.


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## JSHamlet234

cstkl1 said:


> all fake.


The GPU utilization is the giveaway. It just doesn't correlate with the frame rate differences when it should.


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## cstkl1

JSHamlet234 said:


> The GPU utilization is the giveaway. It just doesn't correlate with the frame rate differences when it should.


hint the internet still think timespy cpu score is 17k.. and amd guys talking about 19k etc..on oced..

its like a LOL..

nda day 1 gonna be fun
ddr5 not even at its limit yet


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## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> ddr5 not even at its limit yet


By the time really good DDR5 kits arrive, the Z690/ADL plattform is old and replaced


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## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> By the time really good DDR5 kits arrive, the Z690/ADL plattform is old and replaced


what is "good ddr5? 

limit and good are two diff things.


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## cstkl1

ADATA DDR5-4800 And XPG LANCER RGB DDR5 Memory Starts From RM620 – Pokde.Net


ADATA is first to the line with the ADATA DDR5-4800 in Malaysia, with the XPG LANCER RGB DDR5 set to come at a later date.




pokde.net





16gb one stick myr 620. 1usd = 4.2 myr
so usd 147 per stick..


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## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> what is "good ddr5?
> 
> limit and good are two diff things.


The first DDR5 kits have horrible timings! By the time we see 4800 or 6400 kits with good timings, I bet that Meteor Lake and Zen 4 are out.


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## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> The first DDR5 kits have horrible timings! By the time we see 4800 or 6400 kits with good timings, I bet that Meteor Lake and Zen 4 are out.


and y are so sure they are horrible?

what trfc are u running?


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## i9forever

domdtxdissar said:


> Right on topic
> My own comments: Seems like 12900k aren't all that much faster then 10900k (?)
> I think AMD should have no problem handling Alder Lake with a +15% in games increase using v-cache 3dnow! if these numbers are real..


Those videos are fake.


----------



## Betroz

cstkl1 said:


> and y are so sure they are horrible?
> 
> what trfc are u running?


Yes, I get your point. I don't know how Alder Lake performs yet, so I don't really know if the memory speed and timings are a real problem... Am I not allowed to have an opinion here?


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> Yes, I get your point. I don't know how Alder Lake performs yet, so I don't really know if the memory speed and timings are a real problem... Am I not allowed to have an opinion here?


"The first DDR5 kits have horrible timings! By the time we see 4800 or 6400 kits with good timings, I bet that Meteor Lake and Zen 4 are out."

thats a opinion? and a bet? 

are we not allowed to understand a person stating something.. the public itself dont even know??🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔


----------



## carlhil2

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452203998455468035


----------



## Nizzen

carlhil2 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1452203998455468035


*Idle* with 5950x and 3090 with 7 fans and waterpump is 245-255w 😅


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Nizzen said:


> *Idle* with 5950x and 3090 with 7 fans and waterpump is 245-255w 😅


How much goe´s to GPU?That is really high.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> *Idle* with 5950x and 3090 with 7 fans and waterpump is 245-255w 😅


idle system should be same as a typical 10900k.. 160w ish for adl with 7 fans+ 2xd5 + ampere card


----------



## PhoenixMDA

My CML has under 20W, RTX3080 32W, i think that are under 80W with board/ram without cooling.
ca. 30W for DDC pump´s and under 10W for 34 fans in silent,make´s arround 120W.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

223 watts at the wall on Rocket Lake + 3090 with only 3 of 4 D5 pumps turned on.


----------



## Section31

Going to be fun time getting components you want


----------



## Nizzen

PhoenixMDA said:


> My CML has under 20W, RTX3080 32W, i think that are under 80W with board/ram without cooling.
> ca. 30W for DDC pump´s and under 10W for 34 fans in silent,make´s arround 120W.


Don't think, look at the actual total draw from the wall with a "kill a watt/watt meter"


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Don't think, look at the actual total draw from the wall with a "kill a watt/watt meter"


ddr5 will be the topic.

who will write a guide?

whats the best way to show 1T vs 2T?

in rkl 3866 g1 2t traded blows with 5k g2 1T
3866 g1 1T domniated g2


----------



## chibi

cstkl1 said:


> in rkl 3866 g1 2t traded blows with 5k g2 1T
> 3866 g1 1T domniated g2


That's true, but somewhat unfair comparison. Not a lot of people can get 3866 1t g1 in rkl. That's the top 0.1% imo.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

chibi said:


> Not a lot of people can get 3866 1t g1 in rkl. That's the top 0.1%* imo*.


you have to believe in yourself


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> you have to believe in yourself


yup. only way to go. lol
or buy rams that can do it..


----------



## IronAge

No DDR5 required. 


MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4 LGA 1700 Intel Z690 SATA 6Gb/s ATX Intel Motherboard @ newegg.ca


----------



## ogider

Is Intel pulling out the crowbar after all? Alder Lake is now allowed up to 241 watts in PL1 ex factory, but for what? | igor'sLAB


Disclaimer: The following article is machine translated from the original German, and has not been edited or checked for errors. Thank you for understanding!




www.igorslab.de


----------



## JSHamlet234

ogider said:


> Is Intel pulling out the crowbar after all? Alder Lake is now allowed up to 241 watts in PL1 ex factory, but for what? | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> Disclaimer: The following article is machine translated from the original German, and has not been edited or checked for errors. Thank you for understanding!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de


Good. They're getting ahead of the tech tubers who insisted on testing RKL with a 125W power limit.


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## PhoenixMDA

Nizzen said:


> Don't think, look at the actual total draw from the wall with a "kill a watt/watt meter"


That's my cml 24/7 5,1/4,7/[email protected]@1,55V rtx3080, 3xnvme, soundcard, ddc3.2+ddc3.25, 7x140mm noiseblocker rgb(case) and 27xArtic P14 Pwmst (mora´s) an the tastatur display what you see. Idle to(min powerstate 5%)800mhz 115-120w, 100% 3700mhz 122-127W.
For all the things i think that is ok, the measuring device is exact, it´s a Christ.
https://www.distrelec.de/de/wattmet...MIqqz9s-Hl8wIVzuh3Ch0DuABOEAQYASABEgJDk_D_BwE


----------



## Nizzen

I Ordered this:
*G.Skill TridentZ Z5 RGB DDR5-5600 BK C36 DC - 32GB*







G.Skill TridentZ Z5 RGB DDR5-5600 BK C36 DC - 32GB | Billig


5 321,00 kr Minne (RAM), 32 GB: 2 x 16 GB (Dual Channel), DIMM 288-pin, DDR5, 5600 MHz / PC5-44800, CL36-36-36-76, 1.2 V, ikke-bufret, ECC, svart med RGB.




www.proshop.no





Abit cheaper than

*G.Skill Ripjaws V*
DDR4, sett, 32 GB: 2 x 16 GB, DIMM 288-pin, 4000 MHz / PC4-32000, CL16, 1.4 V

Looks like DDR 5 is pretty cheap? Atleast not too bad....

Haven't seen 6400 kit for preorder yet, but 5600 kit should do it the first week


----------



## Talon2016

JSHamlet234 said:


> Good. They're getting ahead of the tech tubers who insisted on testing RKL with a 125W power limit.


Finally Intel is wising up! None of the power limiting BS that Anandtech and Gamers Nexus do. If they test contrary to these SPECS they are testing out of SPEC and their review is invalid. Intel is finally shutting them up and doing what they asked and instead of embracing it they seem to be fighting it because they know it will show higher performance lol.


Nizzen said:


> I Ordered this:
> *G.Skill TridentZ Z5 RGB DDR5-5600 BK C36 DC - 32GB*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.Skill TridentZ Z5 RGB DDR5-5600 BK C36 DC - 32GB | Billig
> 
> 
> 5 321,00 kr Minne (RAM), 32 GB: 2 x 16 GB (Dual Channel), DIMM 288-pin, DDR5, 5600 MHz / PC5-44800, CL36-36-36-76, 1.2 V, ikke-bufret, ECC, svart med RGB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.proshop.no
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abit cheaper than
> 
> *G.Skill Ripjaws V*
> DDR4, sett, 32 GB: 2 x 16 GB, DIMM 288-pin, 4000 MHz / PC4-32000, CL16, 1.4 V
> 
> Looks like DDR 5 is pretty cheap? Atleast not too bad....
> 
> Haven't seen 6400 kit for preorder yet, but 5600 kit should do it the first week


Love to find a US link.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Talon2016 said:


> Finally Intel is wising up! None of the power limiting BS that Anandtech and Gamers Nexus do. If they test contrary to these SPECS they are testing out of SPEC and their review is invalid. Intel is finally shutting them up and doing what they asked and instead of embracing it they seem to be fighting it because they know it will show higher performance lol.
> 
> 
> Love to find a US link.


All the GSkill kits will be on Newegg and we should get the top bins before the EU.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> I Ordered this:
> *G.Skill TridentZ Z5 RGB DDR5-5600 BK C36 DC - 32GB*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.Skill TridentZ Z5 RGB DDR5-5600 BK C36 DC - 32GB | Billig
> 
> 
> 5 321,00 kr Minne (RAM), 32 GB: 2 x 16 GB (Dual Channel), DIMM 288-pin, DDR5, 5600 MHz / PC5-44800, CL36-36-36-76, 1.2 V, ikke-bufret, ECC, svart med RGB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.proshop.no
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abit cheaper than
> 
> *G.Skill Ripjaws V*
> DDR4, sett, 32 GB: 2 x 16 GB, DIMM 288-pin, 4000 MHz / PC4-32000, CL16, 1.4 V
> 
> Looks like DDR 5 is pretty cheap? Atleast not too bad....
> 
> Haven't seen 6400 kit for preorder yet, but 5600 kit should do it the first week


seems priced same as ddr4 DR current pricing.


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> All the GSkill kits will be on Newegg and we should get the top bins before the EU.


ask dis dude
@GSKILL SUPPORT


----------



## carlhil2

I ordered the Foundation block for the 12900k. hope it does the job. my first mainstream since the 4790k. I am excited...


----------



## cstkl1

carlhil2 said:


> I ordered the Foundation block for the 12900k. hope it does the job. my first mainstream since the 4790k. I am excited...


avoid kryo extreme even kryo ..


----------



## geriatricpollywog

cstkl1 said:


> avoid kryo extreme even kryo ..


KPx is all I use on my K|NGP|N


----------



## carlhil2

Intel Core i5 @ 4500 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


[bhgfiz] Validated Dump by Anonymous (2021-10-26 06:34:44) - MB: Asus ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO - RAM: 32768 MB




valid.x86.fr


----------



## cstkl1

putting aside synthetics and power

what games or software performance is paramount vs zen for a person to decide its a good adl is a cpu.
since we know whea, bsod, usb disconnects .. nobody cares about such things...

what do the community cares about?


----------



## iraff1

I'm really interested in how this thing is going to be cooled, i hear its a hot one, conventional coolers probably won't do a good job if you try to overclock, no AIO can handle 300w?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

cstkl1 said:


> putting aside synthetics and power
> 
> what games or software performance is paramount vs zen for a person to decide its a good adl is a cpu.
> since we know whea, bsod, usb disconnects .. nobody cares about such things...
> 
> what do the community cares about?


I’m not a competitive gamer so 1440 and 4K Ultra where the FPS is around 100-144.


----------



## Nizzen

iraff1 said:


> I'm really interested in how this thing is going to be cooled, i hear its a hot one, conventional coolers probably won't do a good job if you try to overclock, no AIO can handle 300w?


300w on 11900k is no problem on 360/420 aio. Who are playing prime95 avx2 24/7 on a mainstream plattform anyway 
Internet said Rocketlake was going to be hot like lava... Ended up cooler than 9900k and 10900k
... Even cooler than Ryzen 5800x....


----------



## Betroz

Nizzen said:


> 300w on 11900k is no problem on 360/420 aio.


300W load on such an AIO is close to the limit, at least with something like the Arctic Freezer 2 360 AIO with stock ~1700 rpm fans and NORMAL room temp


----------



## JSHamlet234

iraff1 said:


> I'm really interested in how this thing is going to be cooled, i hear its a hot one, conventional coolers probably won't do a good job if you try to overclock, no AIO can handle 300w?


It depends on how thermally dense the chip is and how well heat gets from the die to the IHS and from the IHS to the cold plate. In other words, we won't know until someone tries it and has the HWINFO64 screens to prove it.


----------



## domdtxdissar

cstkl1 said:


> putting aside synthetics and power
> 
> what games or software performance is paramount vs zen for a person to decide its a good adl is a cpu.
> since we know whea, bsod, usb disconnects .. nobody cares about such things...
> 
> what do the community cares about?


i care about the "ultimate gaming performance", if a top tuned Alder Lake platform is substantially faster than a top tuned Zen3 (v-cache) in games, its a win in my book...

If it cant deliver this, its a failure since its released one year after (my opinion).. And i'm looking forward to seeing the official benchmarks for this 

But please dont show me a P1=P2 ="244watts"(or whatever it is) vs "125w" stock zen3 and call it a win, this would be a joke on *overclock.net *

Lastly, i dont want to beat a dead horse, but some ppl were praising Rocket Lake as the fastest gaming platform before it got released, only to see it fall on its face once we started to compare real gaming numbers for tuned systems... And i want to remind, some scrubs were even recommending/telling ppl to buy memory to run highspeed 4600-5200MT/s gear2 instead of 3866-4000 MT/s gear1 for gen11.. We all saw how that worked out in the end, and i never saw those very same ppl even admiting they were wrong when the proof were right in there face.

I fear we will have a repeat with these ddr5 recommendations.. I have no doubt ddr5 will be faster than ddr4 in the end, but ddr5 will need atleast 6-12 months before this happen, and by that time we will hopefully have gen13, otherwise i fear it will be slaughter again when Zen4 releases.

Food for thought


----------



## ViTosS

domdtxdissar said:


> i care about the "ultimate gaming performance", if a top tuned Alder Lake platform is substantially faster than a top tuned Zen3 (v-cache) in games, its a win in my book...
> 
> If it cant deliver this, its a failure since its released one year after (my opinion).. And i'm looking forward to seeing the official benchmarks for this
> 
> But please dont show me a P1=P2 ="244watts"(or whatever it is) vs "125w" stock zen3 and call it a win, this would be a joke on *overclock.net *
> 
> Lastly, i dont want to beat a dead horse, but some ppl were praising Rocket Lake as the fastest gaming platform before it got released, only to see it fall on its face once we started to compare real gaming numbers for tuned systems... And i want to remind, some scrubs were even recommending/telling ppl to buy memory to run highspeed 4600-5200MT/s gear2 instead of 3866-4000 MT/s gear1 for gen11.. We all saw how that worked out in the end, and i never saw those very same ppl even admiting they were wrong when the proof were right in there face.
> 
> I fear we will have a repeat with these ddr5 recommendations.. I have no doubt ddr5 will be faster than ddr4 in the end, but ddr5 will need atleast 6-12 months before this happen, and by that time we will hopefully have gen13, otherwise i fear it will be slaughter again when Zen4 releases.
> 
> Food for thought


Post your HZD bench if possible


----------



## geriatricpollywog

domdtxdissar said:


> i care about the "ultimate gaming performance", if a top tuned Alder Lake platform is substantially faster than a top tuned Zen3 (v-cache) in games, its a win in my book...
> 
> If it cant deliver this, its a failure since its released one year after (my opinion).. And i'm looking forward to seeing the official benchmarks for this
> 
> But please dont show me a P1=P2 ="244watts"(or whatever it is) vs "125w" stock zen3 and call it a win, this would be a joke on *overclock.net *
> 
> Lastly, i dont want to beat a dead horse, but some ppl were praising Rocket Lake as the fastest gaming platform before it got released, only to see it fall on its face once we started to compare real gaming numbers for tuned systems... And i want to remind, some scrubs were even recommending/telling ppl to buy memory to run highspeed 4600-5200MT/s gear2 instead of 3866-4000 MT/s gear1 for gen11.. We all saw how that worked out in the end, and i never saw those very same ppl even admiting they were wrong when the proof were right in there face.
> 
> I fear we will have a repeat with these ddr5 recommendations.. I have no doubt ddr5 will be faster than ddr4 in the end, but ddr5 will need atleast 6-12 months before this happen, and by that time we will hopefully have gen13, otherwise i fear it will be slaughter again when Zen4 releases.
> 
> Food for thought


I know it might seem “cool” to buy a Zen 3 processor, go to Intel threads and post screenshots of games exceeding every monitor’s refresh rate. But trust me, there is nothing “cool” about losing a competitive match due to BSODs or USB drop-outs. That’s why friends don’t let friends buy Zen 3. If you are unsure if you are buying a Zen 3, a dead giveaway is the red box. Always look for the blue box when shopping for a CPU.


----------



## cstkl1

domdtxdissar said:


> i care about the "ultimate gaming performance", if a top tuned Alder Lake platform is substantially faster than a top tuned Zen3 (v-cache) in games, its a win in my book...
> 
> If it cant deliver this, its a failure since its released one year after (my opinion).. And i'm looking forward to seeing the official benchmarks for this
> 
> But please dont show me a P1=P2 ="244watts"(or whatever it is) vs "125w" stock zen3 and call it a win, this would be a joke on *overclock.net *
> 
> Lastly, i dont want to beat a dead horse, but some ppl were praising Rocket Lake as the fastest gaming platform before it got released, only to see it fall on its face once we started to compare real gaming numbers for tuned systems... And i want to remind, some scrubs were even recommending/telling ppl to buy memory to run highspeed 4600-5200MT/s gear2 instead of 3866-4000 MT/s gear1 for gen11.. We all saw how that worked out in the end, and i never saw those very same ppl even admiting they were wrong when the proof were right in there face.
> 
> I fear we will have a repeat with these ddr5 recommendations.. I have no doubt ddr5 will be faster than ddr4 in the end, but ddr5 will need atleast 6-12 months before this happen, and by that time we will hopefully have gen13, otherwise i fear it will be slaughter again when Zen4 releases.
> 
> Food for thought


so those games you posted before. is that it??
pretty impressive btw u did all that work. with whea and kb/mouse dc just to come to intel thread.. but nevermind

so sotr, hzd, f1 2020, fc6 ???

3dmark timespy cpu score... but this will be unfair to amd .. might nerf to P core only . so 16 vs a 32.. will try that.. that might be challenging.

so is that it?? nothing more?? 

dont worry about ddr5. that problem is more on user trying to understand the ram oc. they wont have anybody to copy. 

anything else? anybody else?


----------



## Falkentyne

Minecraft.


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> I know it might seem “cool” to buy a Zen 3 processor, go to Intel threads and post screenshots of games exceeding every monitor’s refresh rate. But trust me, there is nothing “cool” about losing a competitive match due to BSODs or USB drop-outs. That’s why friends don’t let friends buy Zen 3. If you are unsure if you are buying a Zen 3, a dead giveaway is the red box. Always look for the blue box when shopping for a CPU.


orange bro. also wonder what would happen if i go post the same-thing in amd thread

scratch that. we already know.


----------



## acoustic

Falkentyne said:


> Minecraft.


Nightmare fuel


----------



## Elrick

0451 said:


> I know it might seem “cool” to buy a Zen 3 processor, go to Intel threads and post screenshots of games exceeding every monitor’s refresh rate. But trust me, there is nothing “cool” about losing a competitive match due to BSODs or USB drop-outs. That’s why friends don’t let friends buy Zen 3.


Completely correct.

In the end, it's all about reliability here, no one wants failed attempts during any hardcore Gaming. Which on the AMD side is quite normal and accepted.

But the 'Hate Intel propaganda' is far more important to them, even when they're losing in every Game currently being sold. Seems their obtuse 'ideology' is far more important, in these pathetic times......


----------



## 2500k_2

Top ASUS VRM / Mby Alder Lake 🔥🔥🔥.

It seems to me that it is better not to overclock Alder Lake cores without a chiller.


----------



## Talon2016

2500k_2 said:


> View attachment 2530152
> 
> Top ASUS VRM / Mby Alder Lake 🔥🔥🔥.
> 
> It seems to me that it is better not to overclock Alder Lake cores without a chiller.


So HERO board doesn't get PCIE 5.0 NVME slots on board?


----------



## Nizzen

Talon2016 said:


> So HERO board doesn't get PCIE 5.0 NVME slots on board?


Read again, if you need to ask


----------



## Talon2016

Nizzen said:


> Read again, if you need to ask


Yes but what is a Hyper M.2? Is that an expansion card that Asus sells separately? I assume that it goes into the PCIE x16 slot and then reduces the top PCIE slot bandwidth. While the other boards are getting a PCIE 5.0 nvme slot on board. I just want to make sure I am reading this correctly.


----------



## Falkentyne

Talon2016 said:


> Yes but what is a Hyper M.2? Is that an expansion card that Asus sells separately? I assume that it goes into the PCIE x16 slot and then reduces the top PCIE slot bandwidth. While the other boards are getting a PCIE 5.0 nvme slot on board. I just want to make sure I am reading this correctly.


Wasn't the hyper m.2 a PCIE add-in card, sort of like the Thunderbolt add-in cards for Z390 and Z490?


----------



## cstkl1

Talon2016 said:


> So HERO board doesn't get PCIE 5.0 NVME slots on board?


its from the gpu. so u can always use a card

but makes u wonder.. is raptor lake going to have something special?


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

Man those are looking sexy.. (Motherboards)

either ways, anybody heard about the non-overclockable and overclockable DDR5 kits?? there will be kits where the PMIC is programmable upto 1.435v (for now, who knows) for overclocking..and the regular ones which can't be overvolted/overclocked..

damn..this platform switch is gonna be pricey and spicy..


----------



## cstkl1

kairi_zeroblade said:


> Man those are looking sexy.. (Motherboards)
> 
> either ways, anybody heard about the non-overclockable and overclockable DDR5 kits?? there will be kits where the PMIC is programmable upto 1.435v (for now, who knows) for overclocking..and the regular ones which can't be overvolted/overclocked..
> 
> damn..this platform switch is gonna be pricey..


high dram mode. 
but ppl need to be able to cool that.


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

cstkl1 said:


> high dram mode.
> but ppl need to be able to cool that.


Yeah according to the article I read, cooling is the major issue for those overclockable kits..I also saw a Benchmark video of a "DDR5 Alder Lake" playing SOTR and its around 5-7 fps better than a RKL system on DDR4.. (no extra details were revealed just the GPU used)


----------



## cstkl1

kairi_zeroblade said:


> Yeah according to the article I read, cooling is the major issue for those overclockable kits..I also saw a Benchmark video of a "DDR5 Alder Lake" playing SOTR and its around 5-7 fps better than a RKL system on DDR4.. (no extra details were revealed just the GPU used)


sotr rkl is fine now with denuvo drm removed.

@sugi0lover just did a few benches 

theres no real benchmark video. all fake. access to ddr5 is not as widespread as ppl think.


----------



## carlhil2

An overclocked, tuned ADL system should be pretty fast in almost everything. the prices aren't bad coming from $1000+ chips also. my 10980xe about to get the boot.Lolz..


----------



## carlhil2

12900k will hold me til SPR-X is released. that's the chip I am more interested in..


----------



## IronAge

ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Extreme Glacial Intel LGA 1700 EATX Gaming Motherboard, EK Ultrablock, 24+1 Power Stages, PCIe 5.0, WiFi 6E, 10 Gb and 2.5 Gb Ethernet, five M.2, Thunderbolt 4 : Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories


Buy



www.amazon.co.uk





2K Brexit £ 









ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Formula Intel LGA 1700 ATX Motherboard, 20+1 Power Stages, PCIe 5.0, 10 Gb Ethernet, WiFi 6E, USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 Front-Panel Connector, Dual Thunderbolt 4 and Aura Sync : Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories


Buy



www.amazon.co.uk





900 £









ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Apex Intel LGA 1700 ATX Gaming Motherboard, 24+0 Power Stages, PCIe 5.0, WiFi 6E, 2.5 Gb Ethernet, five M.2 with Backplate Heatsinks, Thunderbolt 4 and Aura Sync : Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories


Buy



www.amazon.co.uk





800 £









ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO, LGA 1700, E-ATX, 128BG DDR5, 4DIMM,HDMI,THUNDERBOLT4 : Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories


Buy



www.amazon.co.uk





600 £


----------



## gtz

carlhil2 said:


> An overclocked, tuned ADL system should be pretty fast in almost everything. the prices aren't bad coming from $1000+ chips also. my 10980xe about to get the boot.Lolz..
> View attachment 2530167
> View attachment 2530168


I'll take your 10980XE if the price is right.


----------



## carlhil2

gtz said:


> I'll take your 10980XE if the price is right.


Damn, too late. I will be selling it local to a guy who buys my old chips and takes advantage of the MC Replacement Plan because he is shady like that. LOL. he bought my 7960x also..


----------



## ogider

I wonder if it's related to the premiere of alder 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453260958466465796


----------



## cstkl1

ogider said:


> I wonder if it's related to the premiere of alder
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453260958466465796


he hits trolling . say bad news so ppl would read.


----------



## carlhil2

Twitter Trolls trying their best to keep ADL sales down. it won't work...


----------



## cstkl1

carlhil2 said:


> Twitter Trolls trying their best to keep ADL sales down. it won't work...


nah its just a vague statement so he get hits. and then a vague answer

so bait with bad news


----------



## IronAge

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453195027128127490


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1453195027128127490


fake news again.

not true. on the point 2/3

first one is obvious


----------



## cstkl1

remind u guys again ddr5 is really hard to get

so just not anybody has them. so ignore tweets unless its a dude with huge influence. 
anybody starts with bad news topic but content vague. ignore 

better u guys wait for linus etc


----------



## phillyman36

Not the ddr5 kits I want but grabbed a pair just to be safe.









Crucial 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 4800 (PC5 38400) Desktop Memory Model CT2K16G48C40U5 - Newegg.com


Buy Crucial 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 4800 (PC5 38400) Desktop Memory Model CT2K16G48C40U5 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com












Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR5 4800 (PC5 38400) Desktop Memory Model CT2K8G48C40U5 - Newegg.com


Buy Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR5 4800 (PC5 38400) Desktop Memory Model CT2K8G48C40U5 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## IronAge

Some Geil DDR5 and Teamgroup Kits already shipped out by Amazon in Europe, actually i know sb who already got his Geil Kit.

Supplies are very low though.


----------



## cstkl1

phillyman36 said:


> Not the ddr5 kits I want but grabbed a pair just to be safe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crucial 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 4800 (PC5 38400) Desktop Memory Model CT2K16G48C40U5 - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy Crucial 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 4800 (PC5 38400) Desktop Memory Model CT2K16G48C40U5 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR5 4800 (PC5 38400) Desktop Memory Model CT2K8G48C40U5 - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy Crucial 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR5 4800 (PC5 38400) Desktop Memory Model CT2K8G48C40U5 with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com


well. actually grab whatever u can. test the cpu


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> Some Geil DDR5 and Teamgroup Kits already shipped out by Amazon in Europe, actually i know sb who already got his Geil Kit.
> 
> Supplies are very low though.


so far the most impressive build is that 10layer pcb by giga. but not binned high and not sure the pmic has high dram mode.


----------



## phillyman36

cstkl1 said:


> well. actually grab whatever u can. test the cpu


Thats what im doing. Hopefully I can grab some better ram via pre order and cancel the Micron ones. Do we know what time the event/preorders is supposed to start EST?


----------



## acoustic

Any word on pricing on ASUS Z690? I'm hoping we don't see prices go even more stupid than we seen with Z590, but I'm not holding my breath. ASUS has jacked prices up on everything for the past year .. that profit margin, even with the tariffs, must be insane.

I have a buddy who is interested in my 10900K, board, and RAM, and since I build and maintain his rig for him, he usually pays me pretty well - I nearly broke even going from my 9900K to 10900K. I'm considering ADL, but I'm really wanting to wait for either 13th Gen and go all out on it, or wait for HEDT. Looking at the APEX leaked specs, there's no PCIE5.0 SSD slots, and ADL is still only 20 PCIE lanes from all leaks. I don't see that changing.


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

acoustic said:


> Any word on pricing on ASUS Z690? I'm hoping we don't see prices go even more stupid than we seen with Z590, but I'm not holding my breath. ASUS has jacked prices up on everything for the past year .. that profit margin, even with the tariffs, must be insane..


In general speaking even with AMD boards Asus has really jacked up the prices..


----------



## acoustic

kairi_zeroblade said:


> In general speaking even with AMD boards Asus has really jacked up the prices..


Yup. Every single product they sell went up significantly.


----------



## IronAge

acoustic said:


> Looking at the APEX leaked specs, there's no PCIE5.0 SSD slots, and ADL is still only 20 PCIE lanes from all leaks. I don't see that changing.


IO wise ADL is much stronger than a 10900K sitting on a Z590 motherboard.



Spoiler


----------



## Talon2016

Ordered the Z690 Hero from Newegg.com since Apex is nowhere to be seen yet. Lucky Asus is including the Hyper drive card for M.2 which is nice to see.









ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Hero(WiFi 6E) LGA 1700(Intel®12th&13th Gen) ATX gaming motherboard(PCIe 5.0,DDR5, 20+1 90A power stages,2.5Gb LAN,Bluetooth V5.2,2x Thunderbolt 4 ports,5xM.2/NVMe SSD) - Newegg.com


Buy ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Hero(WiFi 6E) LGA 1700(Intel®12th&13th Gen) ATX gaming motherboard(PCIe 5.0,DDR5, 20+1 90A power stages,2.5Gb LAN,Bluetooth V5.2,2x Thunderbolt 4 ports,5xM.2/NVMe SSD,Front panel USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 Type-C connector) with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once...




www.newegg.com





Grabbed some 5200 Dominator CL38 Plats last night from Best Buy.






Best Buy: CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM RGB 32GB (2PK x 16GB) 5200MHz DDR5 C38 DIMM Desktop Memory Black CMT32GX5M2B5200C38


Shop CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM RGB 32GB (2PK x 16GB) 5200MHz DDR5 C38 DIMM Desktop Memory Black at Best Buy. Find low everyday prices and buy online for delivery or in-store pick-up. Price Match Guarantee.




www.bestbuy.com





Just need my 12900K order now and I'll be good to go.


----------



## acoustic

IronAge said:


> IO wise ADL is much stronger than a 10900K sitting on a Z590 motherboard.


That doesn't really change anything. It's still only 20 PCIE lanes and IMO, that's disappointing, especially with the insane costs of chip+mobo these days. I want all my devices running of CPU PCIE lanes, not a latency-ridden mobo PCH.


----------



## phillyman36

Talon2016 said:


> Ordered the Z690 Hero from Newegg.com since Apex is nowhere to be seen yet. Lucky Asus is including the Hyper drive card for M.2 which is nice to see.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Hero(WiFi 6E) LGA 1700(Intel®12th&13th Gen) ATX gaming motherboard(PCIe 5.0,DDR5, 20+1 90A power stages,2.5Gb LAN,Bluetooth V5.2,2x Thunderbolt 4 ports,5xM.2/NVMe SSD) - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Hero(WiFi 6E) LGA 1700(Intel®12th&13th Gen) ATX gaming motherboard(PCIe 5.0,DDR5, 20+1 90A power stages,2.5Gb LAN,Bluetooth V5.2,2x Thunderbolt 4 ports,5xM.2/NVMe SSD,Front panel USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 Type-C connector) with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grabbed some 5200 Dominator CL38 Plats last night from Best Buy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Best Buy: CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM RGB 32GB (2PK x 16GB) 5200MHz DDR5 C38 DIMM Desktop Memory Black CMT32GX5M2B5200C38
> 
> 
> Shop CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM RGB 32GB (2PK x 16GB) 5200MHz DDR5 C38 DIMM Desktop Memory Black at Best Buy. Find low everyday prices and buy online for delivery or in-store pick-up. Price Match Guarantee.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bestbuy.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just need my 12900K order now and I'll be good to go.


Ordered these but release date seems to be end of November








G.SKILL Ripjaws S5 Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 5200 Desktop Memory Model F5-5200U4040A16GX2-RS5K - Newegg.com


Buy G.SKILL Ripjaws S5 Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 5200 Desktop Memory Model F5-5200U4040A16GX2-RS5K with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com




ordered this thanks to you








ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Hero(WiFi 6E) LGA 1700(Intel®12th&13th Gen) ATX gaming motherboard(PCIe 5.0,DDR5, 20+1 90A power stages,2.5Gb LAN,Bluetooth V5.2,2x Thunderbolt 4 ports,5xM.2/NVMe SSD) - Newegg.com


Buy ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Hero(WiFi 6E) LGA 1700(Intel®12th&13th Gen) ATX gaming motherboard(PCIe 5.0,DDR5, 20+1 90A power stages,2.5Gb LAN,Bluetooth V5.2,2x Thunderbolt 4 ports,5xM.2/NVMe SSD,Front panel USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 Type-C connector) with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once...




www.newegg.com




got these just to get it up and running








OLOy Blade 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR5 4800 (PC5 38400) Desktop Memory Model ND5U0848400BRLDE - Newegg.com


Buy OLOy Blade 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR5 4800 (PC5 38400) Desktop Memory Model ND5U0848400BRLDE with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## IronAge

acoustic said:


> That doesn't really change anything. It's still only 20 PCIE lanes and IMO, that's disappointing, especially with the insane costs of chip+mobo these days. I want all my devices running of CPU PCIE lanes, not a latency-ridden mobo PCH.


When you are worried about latency you should get an Intel Optane 905 with PCIe 3.0 x4.  

PCH has x8 DMI 4.0, doubled bandwidth compared to even Z590 + 11900K, so will see no big difference running a SSD via CPU or PCH Lanes.


----------



## carlhil2

Intel priced ADL to be the 5900x/5800x and 5600x competitors. smart move. the 12900k might beat the 5950x in some MT apps but the 5950x with it's 32 threads is just simply the stronger chip at MT. feel bad for the other 3 Zen3 chips though...


----------



## Talon2016

Zen 3 or 3D chips gonna be a tough sell to new customers with ADL on the market and priced this competitively. Why would you buy into a dead platform without PCIE 5.0 and DDR5? Z690 will support Raptor Lake and maybe even beyond if they stick to LGA 1700.


----------



## acoustic

IronAge said:


> When you are worried about latency you should get an Intel Optane 905 with PCIe 3.0 x4.
> 
> PCH has x8 DMI 4.0, doubled bandwidth compared to even Z590 + 11900K, so will see no big difference running a SSD via CPU or PCH Lanes.


This has nothing to do with 11900, 10900, Z590 or Z490. When they're asking $600+ for the chip, we should be getting more than 20 PCIE lanes. The mobos are $500+ and, for the most part, won't have PCIE5.0 M.2 slots outside of the ASUS DIMM.2 slot, which I wouldn't use. For the pricing, we should be getting more than we are.


----------



## phillyman36

My Amd x570 with the 5900x has given me the most headaches lol. Constant 40 memory post codes. Usb disconnects. Trying to figure out all the settings in the bios. Im back to Intel for now.


----------



## acoustic

phillyman36 said:


> My Amd x570 with the 5900x has given me the most headaches lol. Constant 40 memory post codes. Usb disconnects. Trying to figure out all the settings in the bios. Im back to Intel for now.


You aren't the only one.


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> This has nothing to do with 11900, 10900, Z590 or Z490. I'm a little annoyed at the chip being $600+ and comes with a measly 20 PCIE lanes. The mobos are $500+ and, for the most part, won't have PCIE5.0 M.2 slots outside of the ASUS DIMM.2 slot, which I wouldn't use. For the pricing, we should be getting more than we are.


16 gen 5 , 4 gen 4 + 8x dmi gen 4..

measly??

dats must have made you FURIOUS on x570 etc bro.

if anything u may question intel y 16 gen 5 instead of 32 gen 4..

bandwidth wise its not measly


----------



## Nizzen

acoustic said:


> This has nothing to do with 11900, 10900, Z590 or Z490. When they're asking $600+ for the chip, we should be getting more than 20 PCIE lanes. The mobos are $500+ and, for the most part, won't have PCIE5.0 M.2 slots outside of the ASUS DIMM.2 slot, which I wouldn't use. For the pricing, we should be getting more than we are.


If you don't like it, don't buy it 

I still waiting for a x299 successor. I want the "best" in multithread AND the "best" in singlethread on one plattform. One system to rule them all


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> 16 gen 5 , 4 gen 4 + 8x dmi gen 4..
> 
> measely??
> 
> dats must have made you FURIOUS on x570 etc bro.
> 
> if anything u may question intel y 16 gen 5 instead of 32 gen 4..


Brotha .. who gives a **** about AMD? lol. **** X570 and Zen.

I do agree, though. I'd rather have seen full PCIE4.0 with more lanes instead of PCIE5.0 at all.



Nizzen said:


> If you don't like it, don't buy it
> 
> I still waiting for a x299 successor. I want the "best" in multithread AND the "best" in singlethread on one plattform. One system to rule them all


Fair enough, and I probably won't. I'm also on the boat for X299 successor. However, I don't think it's outrageous to question the pricing of these products, especially the motherboards, when we aren't even being given PCIE5.0 M.2 slots on a $600+ board like the APEX, outside of the DIMM.2 slot, which I don't think too many would use, especially with it being so close to the DIMM slots.

I'm not hating on ADL - I'm still considering plopping the $$ down for it - but let's not act like a little criticism is the end of the world.


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> Brotha .. who gives a *** about AMD? lol. *** X570 and Zen.
> 
> I do agree, though. I'd rather have seen full PCIE4.0 with more lanes instead of PCIE5.0 at all.
> 
> 
> 
> Fair enough, and I probably won't. I'm also on the boat for X299 successor. However, I don't think it's outrageous to question the pricing of these products, especially the motherboards, when we aren't even being given PCIE5.0 M.2 slots on a $600+ board like the APEX, outside of the DIMM.2 slot, which I don't think too many would use, especially with it being so close to the DIMM slots.


what benchmark do u need to see as x299 successor? single threaded adl is god

so which?
@Nizzen 

also . which?


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> what benchmark do u need to see as x299 successor? single threaded adl is god
> 
> so which?


I'm considering HEDT for the PCIE lanes, mainly, and hopefully similar longevity as X299. X299 successor is referring to the HEDT platform successor, not performance.


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> what benchmark do u need to see as x299 successor? single threaded adl is god
> 
> so which?
> @Nizzen
> 
> also . which?


It's not about benchmark, but I want 4x pci-e x16, quad/octa channel memory etc.... Yes the full package for a Workstation/gamer combined. Just like my 4 years! old 7980xe x299


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> I'm considering HEDT for the PCIE lanes, mainly, and hopefully similar longevity as X299. X299 successor is referring to the HEDT platform successor, not performance.


so 2x thunderbolt 3, 10gig nic , 2.5 nic
3x gen 4 nvme via pch, 1 from cpu
pletora of usb c, 3.0 etc


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> It's not about benchmark, but I want 4x pci-e x16, quad/octa channel memory etc.... Yes the full package for a Workstation/gamer combined. Just like my 4 years! old 7980xe x299


ok now u two started making sense. hmm 120gb /s from dual channel tough. nearing 110 possible


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> ok now u two started making sense. hmm 120gb /s from dual channel tough. nearing 110 possible


octa channel DDR5 .. bandwidth would be crazy!!

Back to ADL .. you think we'll be able to de-lid and run direct-die on this thing?


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> octa channel DDR5 .. bandwidth would be crazy!!
> 
> Back to ADL .. you think we'll be able to de-lid and run direct-die on this thing?


thats what i been asking ppl since apex has low sp caps. its perfect for direct die. 

this time arnd nobody delided their es cpu


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> ok now u two started making sense. hmm 120gb /s from dual channel tough. nearing 110 possible


My very OLD rig:
3-way sli
16x hdd (some hidden behind)
12x stk ssd,
2x psu
Areca ix 28 port raidkontroller


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> thats what i been asking ppl since apex has low sp caps. its perfect for direct die.
> 
> this time arnd nobody delided their es cpu


With the wattage and current these chips are pushing, I think it'll be better than ever. Hopefully someone will do it quickly .. I think derbauer usually tries to de-lid very soon after he starts releasing videos.


----------



## carlhil2




----------



## Talon2016

Are you a human?







www.newegg.com







Built for the Next Generation of Gaming | Newegg.com



Got mine!


----------



## phillyman36

Wouldnt let me check out tried several time


----------



## Talon2016

phillyman36 said:


> Wouldnt let me check out tried several time


Dang man that sucks.

EDIT: It's back, keep checking. It should come back in and out of stock over next few hours. 



phillyman36 said:


> Wouldnt let me check out tried several time











Intel Core i9-12900K 3.2 GHz 16-Core LGA 1700 Processor


Buy Intel Core i9-12900K 3.2 GHz 16-Core LGA 1700 Processor featuring 16 Cores & 24 Threads, 3.2 GHz P-Core Clock Speed, 5.2 GHz Maximum Turbo Frequency, LGA 1700 Socket, 30MB Cache Memory, Dual-Channel DDR5-4800 Memory, Integrated Intel UHD 770 Graphics, Hybrid Core Architecture, Unlocked for...




www.bhphotovideo.com


----------



## Spiriva

I got this combo:


----------



## frantatech

I am about to preorder mine 12900K! 
Now the question is, 12900K vs 12900KF. I don´t really need the iGPU, but which one will have better bin 🤔 Lottery begun


----------



## chibi

frantatech said:


> I am about to preorder mine 12900K!
> Now the question is, 12900K vs 12900KF. I don´t really need the iGPU, but which one will have better bin 🤔 Lottery begun


Get both and bin the keeper! 😄 

Sorry don't mean to be a bad influence, haha.


----------



## phillyman36

Talon2016 said:


> Dang man that sucks.
> 
> EDIT: It's back, keep checking. It should come back in and out of stock over next few hours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K 3.2 GHz 16-Core LGA 1700 Processor
> 
> 
> Buy Intel Core i9-12900K 3.2 GHz 16-Core LGA 1700 Processor featuring 16 Cores & 24 Threads, 3.2 GHz P-Core Clock Speed, 5.2 GHz Maximum Turbo Frequency, LGA 1700 Socket, 30MB Cache Memory, Dual-Channel DDR5-4800 Memory, Integrated Intel UHD 770 Graphics, Hybrid Core Architecture, Unlocked for...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.bhphotovideo.com


Dude I love you I said that with a straight face. I got my order in thank you.


----------



## Kana Chan

Intel 12th Gen Core Alder Lake for Desktops: Top SKUs Only, Coming November 4th







www.anandtech.com




Die thinned in 10th/11th gen ( thicker IHS )
Die thinned + Solder thinned in 12th gen ( even thicker IHS )
More BCLK options?


----------



## IronAge

I am really glad Asus chose SP-Caps for Apex VRM, makes it 1st choice for me.


----------



## ogider

12900k purchased with -10% voucher  Less than I paid for 10900k at start. But mainboard prices are crazy high.


----------



## Nizzen

ogider said:


> 12900k purchased with -10% voucher  Less than I paid for 10900k at start. But mainboard prices are crazy high.


----------



## phillyman36

Yeah the mobo was a good amount(i expected it to be tho) the 5900x will pay my Alder lake rent lol
Am a little disappointed only 1 lan port tho but oh well.


----------



## Spiriva

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2530198



Hehe i placed an order from komplett too. Rather one to many then one to few


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## cstkl1




----------



## phillyman36

You all going air cooling or water cooling? I don't really overclock so i may use either my Noctua d15, or u14s over my galahad 360 aio. (I have a strong fear of aio leaking lol)


----------



## acoustic

phillyman36 said:


> You all going air cooling or water cooling? I don't really overclock so i may use either my Noctua d15, or u14s over my galahad 360 aio. (I have a strong fear of aio leaking lol)


I'm pretty sure DDR5 is going to need watercooling for heavy OCing, at least for the first year. Maybe some more temperature resistant/lower voltage sticks come out later on..


----------



## cstkl1

Spoiler














ready to be wall hung as the best ddr4 could do.

learned alot. every theories was rechecked.


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2530202
> 
> 
> ready to be wall hung as the best ddr4 could do.
> 
> learned alot. every theories was rechecked.


Looking forward to the DDR5 adventure..


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> Looking forward to the DDR5 adventure..


if i could get some good ones. 

this gonna be a costly binning 

wish they had 16gb kits.


----------



## frantatech

Pre order done 
(the price is in CZK)


----------



## phillyman36

acoustic said:


> I'm pretty sure DDR5 is going to need watercooling for heavy OCing, at least for the first year. Maybe some more temperature resistant/lower voltage sticks come out later on..


I'm not going to overclock. (was never my strong suit anyway) Let the stock clocks do their thing so i hope im good lol


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> if i could get some good ones.
> 
> this gonna be a costly binning
> 
> wish they had 16gb kits.


Shouldn't be too hard to re-sell the sticks you don't want!

Microcenter will have the chips Nov. 04, and they typically have the APEX on release day. I may end up grabbing a board and chip, as long as I'm home and not traveling for work ..


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> Shouldn't be too hard to re-sell the sticks you don't want!
> 
> Microcenter will have the chips Nov. 04, and they typically have the APEX on release day. I may end up grabbing a board and chip, as long as I'm home and not traveling for work ..


apex has never been ever launched on day 1 except z270 i think.

that board will be normally harder to get than cpu or ram for first few months.

reselling hmm. true.


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> apex has never been ever launched on day 1 except z270 i think.
> 
> that board will be normally harder to get than cpu or ram for first few months.
> 
> reselling hmm. true.


Could have sworn they had Z490 and Z590 APEX release day1?

I guess I'm wrong!


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> Could have sworn they had Z490 and Z590 APEX release day1?
> 
> I guess I'm wrong!


normally a month later apex but limited stock , ocf somewhere during the the half cycle and dark just before the next thing. 

later two has to play catchup . 

i hope tachyon and unify X can be good this time. so much buildup on z590 and then nothing.


----------



## ogider

anyone remember if z590 -A Strix was ok as a mainboard? Moderate cpu OC (good vrm) and good memory OC is my req.
Im Thinking about ddr4 z690 mainboard.


----------



## cstkl1

ogider said:


> anyone remember if z590 -A Strix was ok as a mainboard? Moderate cpu OC (good vrm) and good memory OC is my req.
> Im Thinking about ddr4 z690 mainboard.


asus optimem is not a gimmick.

so check which version that board comes with and compare previous z590 board that had same optimem version. thats the ref point of what the board can do

we had multiple ppl with hero doing 4x8gb 3866c14 and even z490 formula doing well on 3866c14 for rkl.


----------



## cstkl1

@IronAge 
u saw this? 


https://promotion.asus.com/de/de/intel-z690


----------



## iraff1

**** it, pulled the plug too, i wanna get in on the fun 








i guess my 5950x will become my overkill unraid server if this thing is good, if not, welp, **** me... there ain't no thread director on unraid anytime soon so it won't do good there..


----------



## acoustic

iraff1 said:


> **** it, pulled the plug too, i wanna get in on the fun
> View attachment 2530208
> 
> i guess my 5950x will become my overkill unraid server if this thing is good, if not, welp, **** me... there ain't no thread director on unraid anytime soon so it won't do good there..


What did the Extreme run you? lol


----------



## chibi

I'm guessing the new Extreme will be around 1.4k CAD when they release. This gen is insane with current pricing. If you thought z590 was bad, it gets better/worse?! Haha


----------



## iraff1

acoustic said:


> What did the Extreme run you? lol


just 0.025 btc! (nearly 1500$)


----------



## D-EJ915

cstkl1 said:


> @IronAge
> u saw this?
> 
> 
> https://promotion.asus.com/de/de/intel-z690


would be nice if asus usa did things like this lol, only msi seems to


----------



## acoustic

iraff1 said:


> just 0.025 btc! (nearly 1500$)


unbelievable..


----------



## HyperMatrix

0451 said:


> I’m thinking of picking up a DDR4 board and 12700K for LN2.


I'm doing a DDR4 board as well. Currently set on the ASUS ROG Strix Z690-A Gaming WiFi D4. Figure if there's any substantial improvement to DDR5 down the road I can swap out mobos then. Or perhaps switch to new platform depending on how long it takes. As for the 12700k though, not sure I'd drop the 4 efficiency cores as well as the extra cache on the 12900k. Nor the boost clocks. No idea how binning works for them.



0451 said:


> I know it might seem “cool” to buy a Zen 3 processor, go to Intel threads and post screenshots of games exceeding every monitor’s refresh rate. But trust me, there is nothing “cool” about losing a competitive match due to BSODs or USB drop-outs. That’s why friends don’t let friends buy Zen 3. If you are unsure if you are buying a Zen 3, a dead giveaway is the red box. Always look for the blue box when shopping for a CPU.





phillyman36 said:


> My Amd x570 with the 5900x has given me the most headaches lol. Constant 40 memory post codes. Usb disconnects. Trying to figure out all the settings in the bios. Im back to Intel for now.


Bought a 5950x for my workstation. Get freeze/hang/resets almost every day. No OC/PBO. Sometimes happens more than once a day. As soon as ADL arrives, I'm switching my gaming PC over to the 12900k and moving my 11900k into my work computer. Not touching AMD again for a while.


----------



## 2500k_2

2500k_2 said:


> View attachment 2530152
> 
> Top ASUS VRM / Mby Alder Lake 🔥🔥🔥.
> 
> It seems to me that it is better not to overclock Alder Lake cores without a chiller.


I will supplement my previous post. Complete list of asus board specifications.



https://www.asus.com/microsite/motherboard/Intel-Alder-Lake-Z690-H670-B660/websites/download/ASUS_Z690_Full_Specs.pdf


----------



## IronAge

https://www.evga.com/articles/01523/Introducing-the-EVGA-Z690/


----------



## geriatricpollywog

IronAge said:


> https://www.evga.com/articles/01523/Introducing-the-EVGA-Z690/


Finally the good stuff.


----------



## D-EJ915

2500k_2 said:


> I will supplement my previous post. Complete list of asus board specifications.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.asus.com/microsite/motherboard/Intel-Alder-Lake-Z690-H670-B660/websites/download/ASUS_Z690_Full_Specs.pdf


hero: thunderbolt
aorus master: 10gbe
seems like a tough decision if you need both lol


----------



## HyperMatrix

If anyone finds a DDR4 motherboard with 10Gbe and PCIe 5.0 x4 NVMe, please share. I haven't been able to find one since every top end board from the manufacturers I normally look at are DDR5. Really seems like a missed opportunity for one manufacturer to have made a top end DDR4 board and taken all the sales across the board. Either that or I'm completely wrong about how bad DDR5 is going to be for gaming. Waiting for benchmarks.


----------



## 2500k_2

IronAge said:


> https://www.evga.com/articles/01523/Introducing-the-EVGA-Z690/


Good news. waiting for video from Luumi / The zX90 Evga finally comes out on time. Asus apex will have a competitor at the start.


----------



## mouacyk

HyperMatrix said:


> If anyone finds a DDR4 motherboard with 10Gbe and PCIe 5.0 x4 NVMe, please share. I haven't been able to find one since every top end board from the manufacturers I normally look at are DDR5. Really seems like a missed opportunity for one manufacturer to have made a top end DDR4 board and taken all the sales across the board. Either that or I'm completely wrong about how bad DDR5 is going to be for gaming. Waiting for benchmarks.


Unless you are planning to run Windows 11, I would worry more about Windows 10 not discerning between P and E cores.


----------



## HyperMatrix

mouacyk said:


> Unless you are planning to run Windows 11, I would worry more about Windows 10 not discerning between P and E cores.


Been running Windows 11 for 4 months now.


----------



## xarot

Extreme Glacial more expensive here than old ROG Dominus…lol


----------



## acoustic

IronAge said:


> https://www.evga.com/articles/01523/Introducing-the-EVGA-Z690/


**** yeah, EVGA actually releasing on time!


----------



## Nizzen

acoustic said:


> **** yeah, EVGA actually releasing on time!


*In stock 2023 😆

I already ordered z690 Apex, because Apex never let me down.

Big tnx to Shamino and Safedisk


----------



## D-EJ915

acoustic said:


> **** yeah, EVGA actually releasing on time!


lol they already said late this year so fat chance on time https://forums.evga.com/FindPost/3488758


----------



## cstkl1

btw i always update first page on interesting stuff.


----------



## sugi0lover

32GB DDR5-6800 CL38-38-38-76 was announced...wow~
https://www.gskill.com/community/15...ew-Extreme-Speed-at-DDR5-6800-with-Trident-Z5


----------



## 2500k_2

sugi0lover said:


> 32GB DDR5-6800 CL38-38-38-76 was announced...wow~
> https://www.gskill.com/community/15...ew-Extreme-Speed-at-DDR5-6800-with-Trident-Z5


from datasheet z690 Tachyon
DDR5-7000 40-40-40-80 1.5v AORUS ARS32G70D5


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> 32GB DDR5-6800 CL38-38-38-76 was announced...wow~
> https://www.gskill.com/community/15...ew-Extreme-Speed-at-DDR5-6800-with-Trident-Z5


smells like samsung


----------



## bscool

Edit already posted


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> @cstkl1 Let me know if you dont want this posted here and Ill delete it. I thought it might be helpful for those wondering about delidding.


its already on the main post bro like 12hrs ago

i keep the main post updated for ppl to refer and also not to waste time looking through the thread. anything that everybody would find interesting will be ln the first 3 post


----------



## cstkl1

so anything u guys want "pin" or want removed from first three post. just say it out ppl. 

adl has alot of learning curve from cpu tech and ram. so will keep it all easy to refer.


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

for those who previously opened threads asking if they should wait for alder lake or just go straight buy a Zen 3 or Zen 3 B2 or yet Zen 3D, I think the launch speaks for itself, pretty sure the windows 11 update for the L3 cache bug would just give the Ryzen platform a modest 2-3% performance uplift every where else, pretty much ADL is affordable (with the i9 comparable to the 5900X price) and there's DDR4 support as well if you don't want to be an early adopter for DDR5..

I like what intel has to offer despite 10nm (though this one was their retake on 10nm), I have an 11th gen Laptop (Tigerlake) and the feature set it has is almost identical to the ADL (except off course the E and P Core clusters), I am getting more battery out of the Tigerlake over the Cezanne laptop (***!ng AMD didn't have support for Ryzen Master or any way to undervolt or change the limits)..this is an honest course of feedback from my 2 weeks of use, also Intel does better on Matlab for me vs Ryzen's..

damn seems everyone is in line for the pre-order, currently local advise is "its coming soon"..lol..(the itch)

_edit: I am not a fanboi of any sort..lol_


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> so anything u guys want "pin" or want removed from first three post. just say it out ppl.
> 
> adl has alot of learning curve from cpu tech and ram. so will keep it all easy to refer.


Asus z690 have a very important "feature"

‐-------
"All of the Z690 motherboards from ASUS also feature mounting holes that are compatible with CPU coolers designed for the LGA 1200 or LGA 1700 sockets."


----------



## 2500k_2

Nizzen said:


> Asus z690 have a very important "feature"
> 
> ‐-------
> "All of the Z690 motherboards from ASUS also feature mounting holes that are compatible with CPU coolers designed for the LGA 1200 or LGA 1700 sockets."


This is very good, but many people will get a very important "feature" "bad hold on the old cooler mount. And this will be a frequent complaint from users.


----------



## cstkl1

@Nizzen 
you are gonna have so much fun on this cpu

also atm checking with few reviewers the SP quality of retail is about the same as ES. 

we dont want what happen with rkl and later on with cml to repeat. must hold intel accountable for K cpu yields.


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> This is very good, but many people will get a very important "feature" "bad hold on the old cooler mount. And this will be a frequent complaint from users.


Z height the problem for aios


----------



## acoustic

Yes, my


cstkl1 said:


> @Nizzen
> you are gonna have so much fun on this cpu
> 
> also atm checking with few reviewers the SP quality of retail is about the same as ES.
> 
> we dont want what happen with rkl and later on with cml to repeat. must hold intel accountable for K cpu yields.


Yes, my SP67 10900K would like to have some words with Intel


----------



## Elrick

Check out the pricing here in Convict Town;









Shop Intel LGA1700


Shop Intel LGA1700




www.ple.com.au





Actually thought it would be a lot more but looks quite affordable even up to the 16 core model. Now that's a real i9 Model for sure, just having difficulty choosing between the lowly 12700K or the top flight 12900K.

Damn, looks good despite our own worthless Monopoly Money Standard.......


----------



## ScomComputers

Was it already ?
Intel's new Core i9-12900K on LN2: world OC records broken at 6.8GHz


----------



## IronAge

12900K delid atfer he killed the CPU with a screw dropping on the powered up mobo.


----------



## Spiriva

Nizzen said:


> Asus z690 have a very important "feature"
> 
> ‐-------
> "All of the Z690 motherboards from ASUS also feature mounting holes that are compatible with CPU coolers designed for the LGA 1200 or LGA 1700 sockets."


That is a really good feature. Specially since EK wount ship the new blocks till "late november".


----------



## Nizzen

Spiriva said:


> That is a really good feature. Specially since EK wount ship they new blocks till "late november".


True! I ordered EK block, but have to wait. They even haven't got the brackets ready for backward compatibility with LGA 1200 blocks. They want money, not giving "free stuff" out too early.
A bit sad, but normal for business 😐

Asus saves the day again


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

_me drooling over the pre-orders here, because I still have to wait for an announcement locally.._


----------



## WebsterRKL

How does Gskill 6800Mhz CL38 DDR5 compare and contrast to Gskill 5866Mhz CL21 DDR4?

Does anyone really know this early?


----------



## cstkl1

WebsterRKL said:


> How does Gskill 6800Mhz CL38 DDR5 compare and contrast to Gskill 5866Mhz CL21 DDR4?
> 
> Does anyone really know this early?
> 
> View attachment 2530287


ignore everything that not 1t

this using an older runmemtestpro gui... and its still slow compared to proper tuned ddr5.


----------



## Betroz

@Nizzen
No Apex for you


cstkl1 said:


> ignore everything that not 1t


So all your memory profiles run with 1t?


----------



## Nizzen

Betroz said:


> @Nizzen
> No Apex for you
> 
> So all your memory profiles run with 1t?


I ordered Apex and Hero.
Hero because it was in stock, so I have something to do while waiting for Apex


----------



## cstkl1

Betroz said:


> @Nizzen
> No Apex for you
> 
> So all your memory profiles run with 1t?


😁


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> ignore everything that not 1t
> 
> this using an older runmemtestpro gui... and its still slow compared to proper tuned ddr5.


Ignore anything else than from "OCN people"


----------



## WebsterRKL

Nizzen said:


> I ordered Apex and Hero.
> Hero because it was in stock, so I have something to do while waiting for Apex


Z690 Hero looks pretty darn good, although that dot matrix display, yea I'd never use that.

Shaking my head why - with the Z690 Apex aesthetic this gen, none of the lines seem to flow together, but I guess that's not so important for an XOC board. Was really hoping the Z690 Apex would be EATX (like the other XOC board makers) with some serious X-cuts in the PCB for extra coolness, oh well.

Extreme, Extreme Glacial, Hero, all look so nice. 

Here's full specs:

https://www.asus.com/us/site/mother...60/websites/download/ASUS_Z690_Full_Specs.pdf


----------



## acoustic

I loved my EVGA Z390 DARK.. might go with the Z690 DARK..


----------



## SuperMumrik

What board would be my best bet for some high speed ddr4 b-die sticks? Input would be appreciated.

Dunno when my apex will arrive(4-10th of November estimated though) and I refuse to order those 4800 sticks so I'll try my luck on ddr4 while I wait😁


----------



## Nizzen

SuperMumrik said:


> What board would be my best bet for some high speed ddr4 b-die sticks? Input would be appreciated.
> 
> Dunno when my apex will arrive(4-10th of November estimated though) and I refuse to order those 4800 sticks so I'll try my luck on ddr4 while I wait😁







__





MPG Z690 EDGE WIFI DDR4







www.msi.com





5200mhz +


----------



## SuperMumrik

Nizzen said:


> 5200mhz +


Nice looks as well 😝
To bad that there's no 2x dimm ddr4 boards


----------



## cstkl1

SuperMumrik said:


> Nice looks as well 😝
> To bad that there's no 2x dimm ddr4 boards











GIGABYTE Z690I AORUS ULTRA DDR4 LGA 1700 Intel Z690 Mini-ITX Motherboard with DDR4, Dual M.2, PCIe 5.0, USB 3.2 Gen2X2 Type-C, WiFi 6, Intel 2.5 GbE LAN - Newegg.com


Buy GIGABYTE Z690I AORUS ULTRA DDR4 LGA 1700 Intel Z690 Mini-ITX Motherboard with DDR4, Dual M.2, PCIe 5.0, USB 3.2 Gen2X2 Type-C, WiFi 6, Intel 2.5 GbE LAN with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## SuperMumrik

I hate Gigabutt, but **** it 🤣
Upon closer inspection it wasn't in stock after all 🙄


----------



## WebsterRKL

acoustic said:


> I loved my EVGA Z390 DARK.. might go with the Z690 DARK..


I'm still using one of those - 5.8Ghz 8086K Per Core on Noctua air.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

cstkl1 said:


> GIGABYTE Z690I AORUS ULTRA DDR4 LGA 1700 Intel Z690 Mini-ITX Motherboard with DDR4, Dual M.2, PCIe 5.0, USB 3.2 Gen2X2 Type-C, WiFi 6, Intel 2.5 GbE LAN - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy GIGABYTE Z690I AORUS ULTRA DDR4 LGA 1700 Intel Z690 Mini-ITX Motherboard with DDR4, Dual M.2, PCIe 5.0, USB 3.2 Gen2X2 Type-C, WiFi 6, Intel 2.5 GbE LAN with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com


Yes! This should be available at Microcenter. Best thing is I can return it within 30 days if 4000c13 is not possible. I’ll probably bin 5 CPUs again. I really want to do a mini ITX build with my external MO-RA.


----------



## Talon2016

Well my 12900K has landed. Unfortunately have to wait for board and ram so no testing. At least I don't need to worry about finding one though. Hoping to grab a second one from Microcenter on launch day for binning. 



http://imgur.com/a/ClrFBjW


----------



## acoustic

Talon2016 said:


> Well my 12900K has landed. Unfortunately have to wait for board and ram so no testing. At least I don't need to worry about finding one though. Hoping to grab a second one from Microcenter on launch day for binning.
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/ClrFBjW


De-lid it. 

Awesome! Hope it's a great bin!!


----------



## WebsterRKL

Z690 Apex - Massive oversized post code display and chipset heatsink.

Who's buying?


----------



## D-EJ915

Are DDR5 dimm slots all surface mount? even on the cheapo msi boards they have them.

msi posted a pic of the delidded 6 core here too at about 48:30


----------



## 12700KF

WebsterRKL said:


> Z690 Apex - Massive oversized post code display and chipset heatsink.
> 
> Who's buying?


I am


----------



## geriatricpollywog

WebsterRKL said:


> Z690 Apex - Massive oversized post code display and chipset heatsink.
> 
> Who's buying?
> 
> View attachment 2530357
> 
> 
> View attachment 2530358


If you are staying with your 16gb DDR4 kit, you’ll need a DDR4 board. If I was getting a DDR5 board I would wait for a server grade PCB from EVGA or ASRock. I don’t like having to update my bios all the time and lose my profiles. And unless you have a 3090 or plan on getting a 3090ti for your typewriter, don’t even bother!


----------



## WebsterRKL

12700KF said:


> I am


Apex Z690 looking much improved from those first two press photos.

Arrives with a PCIe 5.0 riser card (exclusive to the Apex board) yet only mounts a single PCIe 5.0 M.2 NVMe SSD. 

Wow, does a PCIe 5.0 M.2 SSD need that much heatsink? Run that hot?


----------



## WebsterRKL

0451 said:


> If you are staying with your 16gb DDR4 kit, you’ll need a DDR4 board. If I was getting a DDR5 board I would wait for a server grade PCB from EVGA or ASRock. I don’t like having to update my bios all the time and lose my profiles. And unless you have a 3090 or plan on getting a 3090ti for your typewriter, don’t even bother!


Know exactly what you mean, use to think if I offloaded bios profile values to a USB drive, I could easily layer them back on after a new bios was updated/flashed/installed, but found out it doesn't work that way. Darn it, Asus new bios will not accept older bios profiles. I learned the hard way.

*Really excited for you guys buying Alder Lake*, but I'm having to sit out on the sidelines and wait for Raptor. Some of the new features will carry over so keeping my eyes wide open to all the greatness unfolding, but I won't be buying my 1st DDR5 mem kit until - this time next year.

Ho hum, makes me sad. 

But DDR5 should be more mature by then...

Unfortunately (or fortunately) typewriter builds don't need to be upgraded every gen.


----------



## 12700KF

WebsterRKL said:


> Know exactly what you mean, use to think if I offloaded bios profile values to a USB drive, I could easily layer them back on after a new bios was updated/flashed/installed, but found out it doesn't work that way. Darn it, Asus new bios will not accept older bios profiles. I learned the hard way.
> 
> *Really excited for you guys buying Alder Lake*, but I'm having to sit out on the sidelines and wait for Raptor. Some of the new features will carry over so keeping my eyes wide open to all the greatness unfolding, but I won't be buying my 1st DDR5 mem kit until - this time next year.
> 
> Ho hum, makes me sad.
> 
> But DDR5 should be more mature by then...
> 
> Unfortunately (or fortunately) typewriter builds don't need to be upgraded every gen.


I have no fear to be early DDR5 and ADL adopter. Apex SP caps field gives me strength  And I think 🙏 DDR5 performance progress will go up much smoother and faster than with DDR3 > DDR4 transition.


----------



## cstkl1

12700KF said:


> I have no fear to be early DDR5 and ADL adopter. Apex SP caps field gives me strength  And I think 🙏 DDR5 performance progress will go up much smoother and faster than with DDR3 > DDR4 transition.


ddr5 depending on chipset. its good day 1 compared to ddr3/4 start. cant comment on ddr2 cause my entreee on oc own dough was 800cl3 kits..


----------



## carlhil2

DDR5 for me. no way am I limiting myself with DDR4 because I prefer the Apex. I game at 4k. I should be ok. can't wait to OC those e-cores though...


----------



## cstkl1

carlhil2 said:


> DDR5 for me. no way am I limiting myself with DDR4 because I prefer the Apex. I game at 4k. I should be ok. can't wait to OC those e-cores though...


@Nizzen

betcha asrock etc all will play the waiting game to see what apex can do..
cause atm.. seriously i dont see how they can compete...

be it cpu or ram.

glad to be proven wrong.. by actual users ...


----------



## iraff1

Intel Core i9-12900K Used 2.3x Power than the Ryzen 9 5950X in Official Benchmarks, Lacked the Win 11 L3 Cache Fix | Hardware Times


Intel announced its Alder Lake-S desktop processors the other day, with benchmarks claiming a 30% increase in gaming performance compared to the fastest AMD CPU. The average delta between the Core i9-12900K and the Ryzen 9 5950X varies between 11-16%, however. And on top of that, there’s a...




www.hardwaretimes.com





gonna be real interesting to see the real benchmarks


----------



## cstkl1

iraff1 said:


> Intel Core i9-12900K Used 2.3x Power than the Ryzen 9 5950X in Official Benchmarks, Lacked the Win 11 L3 Cache Fix | Hardware Times
> 
> 
> Intel announced its Alder Lake-S desktop processors the other day, with benchmarks claiming a 30% increase in gaming performance compared to the fastest AMD CPU. The average delta between the Core i9-12900K and the Ryzen 9 5950X varies between 11-16%, however. And on top of that, there’s a...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hardwaretimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gonna be real interesting to see the real benchmarks


yeah the smackdown in gaming in 2nd post.


----------



## 2500k_2

Useful information from the MSI presentation








MSI Talks Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake CPU Dies, Hot Spots, Best Cooling Configurations, DDR5 Temperatures, Power, Cost, & More


MSI has shared a lot of details in their recent Insider episode of Livestreams regarding Intel's 12th Gen Alder Lake CPUs,




wccftech.com





Bing - Apex 14 Inspection


----------



## Astral85

WebsterRKL said:


> Z690 Apex - Massive oversized post code display and chipset heatsink.
> 
> Who's buying?
> 
> View attachment 2530357
> 
> 
> View attachment 2530358


Guess Asus learnt from Z590 chipset temperatures.


----------



## HyperMatrix

cstkl1 said:


> yeah the smackdown in gaming in 2nd post.


The problem with most gaming benchmarks is that they focus on maximum cpu throughput. Meaning they want to see how many frames a CPU is able to prepare when not GPU bound. But this ignores GPU bound scenarios which do gain a lot more from higher clocked CPUs with lower memory latency. So for anyone playing at 4K....99% of gaming benchmarks out in the wild are completely meaningless. Getting higher frames at 1080p doesn't translate into higher performance at 1440p or 4K. A cpu could get lower frames at 1080p and higher frames at 4K compared to another cpu.


----------



## napata

HyperMatrix said:


> The problem with most gaming benchmarks is that they focus on maximum cpu throughput. Meaning they want to see how many frames a CPU is able to prepare when not GPU bound. But this ignores GPU bound scenarios which do gain a lot more from higher clocked CPUs with lower memory latency. So for anyone playing at 4K....99% of gaming benchmarks out in the wild are completely meaningless. Getting higher frames at 1080p doesn't translate into higher performance at 1440p or 4K. A cpu could get lower frames at 1080p and higher frames at 4K compared to another cpu.


If you're truly GPU bound then CPU doesn't matter. There are some exceptions but in general resolution has no impact on CPU performance.


----------



## 2500k_2

iraff1 said:


> Intel Core i9-12900K Used 2.3x Power than the Ryzen 9 5950X in Official Benchmarks, Lacked the Win 11 L3 Cache Fix | Hardware Times
> 
> 
> Intel announced its Alder Lake-S desktop processors the other day, with benchmarks claiming a 30% increase in gaming performance compared to the fastest AMD CPU. The average delta between the Core i9-12900K and the Ryzen 9 5950X varies between 11-16%, however. And on top of that, there’s a...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.hardwaretimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gonna be real interesting to see the real benchmarks


Alder Lake should outperform 5950x / 11900k and 10900k regardless of memory type and Windows.
If this is not the case, I will be desperately disappointed.
(I still think you need at least 6400 ddr5 Gear 2 to excel Gear 1 ddr4)



HyperMatrix said:


> The problem with most gaming benchmarks is that they focus on maximum cpu throughput. Meaning they want to see how many frames a CPU is able to prepare when not GPU bound. But this ignores GPU bound scenarios which do gain a lot more from higher clocked CPUs with lower memory latency. So for anyone playing at 4K....99% of gaming benchmarks out in the wild are completely meaningless. Getting higher frames at 1080p doesn't translate into higher performance at 1440p or 4K. A cpu could get lower frames at 1080p and higher frames at 4K compared to another cpu.


That is why I would like to see the Alderlake tests in SOTR in the minimum resolution to see the CPU Bound.
Intel themselves called this game the weakest side of Alderlake. If you guys show "95 cpu game" more than 5950x / 10900k then other games will win. I look forward to your results guys!


Spoiler: 720p 10900k sotr

















Spoiler: 10900k sotr


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> Alder Lake should outperform 5950x / 11900k and 10900k regardless of memory type and Windows.
> If this is not the case, I will be desperately disappointed.
> (I still think you need at least 6400 ddr5 Gear 2 to excel Gear 1 ddr4)
> 
> 
> 
> That is why I would like to see the Alderlake tests in SOTR in the minimum resolution to see the CPU Bound.
> Intel themselves called this game the weakest side of Alderlake. If you guys show "95 cpu game" more than 5950x / 10900k then other games will win. I look forward to your results guys!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 720p 10900k sotr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2530379
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 10900k sotr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2530380


is that it?


----------



## HyperMatrix

napata said:


> If you're truly GPU bound then CPU doesn't matter. There are some exceptions but in general resolution has no impact on CPU performance.


Not true unless you’re rendering frames in advance like with triple buffering. Take a look at average 1080p game fps benchmark results compared to 4K game fps benchmark results. You’ll see the FPS advantage shift from AMD 5900/5950x at 1080p to Intel 11900k at 4K. We’re talking about small differences here but the general shift confirms it. That’s why I kept the 5950x for my work computer and used the 11900k on my $10K gaming PC.


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> is that it?


This is a test for alder lake
and ddr5.
I hope he will show a better result, and not as it came out of the rocket lake.


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> This is a test for alder lake
> and ddr5.
> I hope he will show a better result, and not as it came out of the rocket lake.


if that's the case go and order a 12900k


----------



## phillyman36

Wound up getting these directly from Corsair. Should have early next week.





DOMINATOR® PLATINUM RGB First Edition 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 DRAM 5200MHz C36 Memory Kit — Black


Push the limits of performance with CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM RGB DDR5 Memory optimized for Intel®, taking advantage of higher frequencies and greater capacities of DDR5, precisely controlled via CORSAIR iCUE software.




www.corsair.com


----------



## IronAge

Better buy Trident Z5 5600, they are supposed to have Samsung DDR5, and Samsung is on the higher bins as well.


----------



## phillyman36

IronAge said:


> Better buy Trident Z5 5600, they are supposed to have Samsung DDR5, and Samsung is on the higher bins as well.


I have these on pre order as well but will probably cancel them since they dont come out until late November.








G.SKILL Ripjaws S5 Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 5200 Desktop Memory Model F5-5200U4040A16GX2-RS5K - Newegg.com


Buy G.SKILL Ripjaws S5 Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) DDR5 5200 Desktop Memory Model F5-5200U4040A16GX2-RS5K with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com





If the Gskill Z5 were out I would have grabbed those. After reviews are out if it makes a difference maybe later ill grab some Gskill. Just need to get up and running.


----------



## IronAge

yeah, its probably better to grab what you can get ahold of, or probably end without DRR5 for weeks with a Mobo and CPU sitting on your desk.


----------



## iraff1

IronAge said:


> yeah, its probably better to grab what you can get ahold of, or probably end without DRR5 for weeks with a Mobo and CPU sitting on your desk.


I hope my stuff becomes a little delayed, it gives me time to cancel if alder lake ends up being a heating element needing 500w to outperform the competition in any meaningful way, i mean i can still operate on my 5950x while i wait!


----------



## Nizzen

iraff1 said:


> I hope my stuff becomes a little delayed, it gives me time to cancel if alder lake ends up being a heating element needing 500w to outperform the competition in any meaningful way, i mean i can still operate on my 5950x while i wait!


It's the memory tuning that wil fix the performance on Alder Lake, not the cpu overclocking 
I can't wait to pump 1,4v+ into Samsung DDR5


----------



## carlhil2

Will use this til the Apex becomes available


----------



## carlhil2

.....


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> It's the memory tuning that wil fix the performance on Alder Lake, not the cpu overclocking
> I can't wait to pump 1,4v+ into Samsung DDR5


1.4?? 
1.6 is fine.


----------



## WebsterRKL

Z690 Apex @30:56


----------



## Falkentyne

ICCMAX is 280A for 8+8 and 240A for 8+4
Max VID is 1.52v + IMVP9 offset capability (offset command unlisted) + 200mv = 1.72v
DC Loadline default: 1.1 mOhm (8+8)
AC Loadline: Same as DCLL
DC LL Default: 1.7 mOhm (8+4)

Looks like 8+0 cores is 200 amps then.


----------



## ogider

-https://twitter.com/9550pro/status/1454086320301568005


----------



## Nizzen

Waiting memory, while waiting for g.skill...


----------



## carlhil2

I will wait to see what Microcenter has for ram when I go buy the 12900k on the 4th. I pre-ordered the Hero. will hold me down til Apex. will be giving my setup to my nephew once SPR-X hits anyways..


----------



## iraff1

ogider said:


> View attachment 2530442
> 
> -https://twitter.com/9550pro/status/1454086320301568005


Ouch, 10180 points in cine20 at 241watts? push 200watts into a 5950x and you get 12000-12500 points in cine20. Was really hoping alder would deliver both king performance in multithread and single, looks like its just going to be single again, but by a quiet large margin i think. I wonder how it translates into for us who are more on the creator side of things rather then gaming.


----------



## carlhil2

People seem to forget, 5950x has 32 threads. 12900k has 24 with the help of 8 low-clocked e-cores. it's actually the 5900x competitor...


----------



## Nizzen

iraff1 said:


> Ouch, 10180 points in cine20 at 241watts? push 200watts into a 5950x and you get 12000-12500 points in cine20. Was really hoping alder would deliver both king performance in multithread and single, looks like its just going to be single again, but by a quiet large margin i think. I wonder how it translates into for us who are more on the creator side of things rather then gaming.


We have threadripper for cinebench....


----------



## cstkl1

iraff1 said:


> Ouch, 10180 points in cine20 at 241watts? push 200watts into a 5950x and you get 12000-12500 points in cine20. Was really hoping alder would deliver both king performance in multithread and single, looks like its just going to be single again, but by a quiet large margin i think. I wonder how it translates into for us who are more on the creator side of things rather then gaming.


think mention before 
5950x 16 core the only one that threatens
but its weaker 16 cores with large caching

i wouldnt use this cpu for work type use


----------



## cstkl1

carlhil2 said:


> People seem to forget, 5950x has 32 threads. 12900k has 24 with the help of 8 low-clocked e-cores. it's actually the 5900x competitor...


that 5900x been dusted and laid waste. 

so only 5950x


----------



## ogider

Some interesting things learned from yesterday's MSI show

ddr5 related









MSI Talks Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake CPU Dies, Hot Spots, Best Cooling Configurations, DDR5 Temperatures, Power, Cost, & More


MSI has shared a lot of details in their recent Insider episode of Livestreams regarding Intel's 12th Gen Alder Lake CPUs,




wccftech.com


----------



## PhoenixMDA

2500k_2 said:


> This is a test for alder lake
> and ddr5.
> I hope he will show a better result, and not as it came out of the rocket lake.


It's ok to compare but i think with a actually win version and gpu driver, the cml is not able to get such high result's under normal conditions.and with HT.
In daily OC it's arround 300-315FPS in real with HT.


----------



## phillyman36

Newegg business still has a pre order option up






NeweggBusiness - Intel Core i9-12900K - Core i9 12th Gen Alder Lake 16-Core (8P+8E) 3.2 GHz LGA 1700 125W Intel UHD Graphics 770 Desktop Processor - BX8071512900K


Buy Intel Core i9-12900K - Core i9 12th Gen Alder Lake 16-Core (8P+8E) 3.2 GHz LGA 1700 125W Intel UHD Graphics 770 Desktop Processor - BX8071512900K with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.neweggbusiness.com


----------



## phillyman36

Does anyone know when Newegg ships pre orders? Will they ship it a day or 2 before so people get it on the day it goes on sale?(4th)


----------



## 2500k_2

phillyman36 said:


> Does anyone know when Newegg ships pre orders? Will they ship it a day or 2 before so people get it on the day it goes on sale?(4th)




__
https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/qhsbrp


----------



## phillyman36

2500k_2 said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/qhsbrp


lol Unfortunately my cpu wasn't shipped early. Just wonder what they usually do.


----------



## JSHamlet234

2500k_2 said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/qhsbrp


----------



## carlhil2

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454196826807193601


----------



## D-EJ915

phillyman36 said:


> Wound up getting these directly from Corsair. Should have early next week.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DOMINATOR® PLATINUM RGB First Edition 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 DRAM 5200MHz C36 Memory Kit — Black
> 
> 
> Push the limits of performance with CORSAIR DOMINATOR PLATINUM RGB DDR5 Memory optimized for Intel®, taking advantage of higher frequencies and greater capacities of DDR5, precisely controlled via CORSAIR iCUE software.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.corsair.com


those have overclock pmic while some others on their site have extreme oc pmic wonder what the difference is for daily vs bleeding edge stability lol


----------



## HyperMatrix

carlhil2 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454196826807193601
> View attachment 2530488


I think a lot of this depends on what DDR4 ram you have now, and what DDR5 ram is available to buy. There is no way I can accept that the current 4800-5200MHz CL40 sets on sale now can match 4000 CL14 for gaming.


----------



## carlhil2

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1454052387858038795


----------



## cstkl1

HyperMatrix said:


> I think a lot of this depends on what DDR4 ram you have now, and what DDR5 ram is available to buy. There is no way I can accept that the current 4800-5200MHz CL40 sets on sale now can match 4000 CL14 for gaming.


think u dont get it.
there is two memory controllers on adl

ddr4 uses one and ddr5 uses two
intel datasheet on 12th gen out.
updated on 2nd post for download

its not a apples to apples comparison


----------



## 2500k_2

*Z690 Apex*
NEWEGG








ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Apex (WiFi 6E) LGA 1700(Intel®12th&13th Gen) ATX gaming motherboard (PCIe® 5.0, DDR5,24+0 power stages,DDR5,5x M.2,1xPCIe 5.0 M.2) - Newegg.com


Buy ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Apex (WiFi 6E) LGA 1700(Intel®12th&13th Gen) ATX gaming motherboard (PCIe® 5.0, DDR5,24+0 power stages,DDR5,5x M.2,1xPCIe 5.0 M.2,USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 front-panel connector with Quick Charge 4+ Support) with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you...




www.newegg.com


----------



## D-EJ915

tachyon mem page has some more memory kits listed









Z690 AORUS TACHYON (rev. 1.0) Support | Motherboard - GIGABYTE Global


Lasting Quality from GIGABYTE.GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ motherboards bring together a unique blend of features and technologies that offer users the absolute ...




www.gigabyte.com


----------



## WebsterRKL

Only guessing in usd:

Glacial $1799
Extreme $999 - a one thousand dollar motherboard  (I paid $389 for my M5E in 2012)
Formula $699
Apex $649
Hero $599

Only guessing


----------



## HyperMatrix

cstkl1 said:


> think u dont get it.
> there is two memory controllers on adl
> 
> ddr4 uses one and ddr5 uses two
> intel datasheet on 12th gen out.
> updated on 2nd post for download
> 
> its not a apples to apples comparison


And that would help in a situation where you’re bottlenecked and the system can’t keep up with requests. But it doesn’t do anything to shorten the time from request to delivery. That’s why the only memory benchmark leaks we’ve seen have had very high latency.

I admit that you know far more than I do about memory, but I still haven’t seen anything that would show an increase in performance in situations where the system is not backed up and waiting on additional requests to be put through. And I would like to see it. I’m not 100% set in my beliefs. But I need a reason to change them. So if you guys are hiding some benchmarks somewhere, showing DDR5 4800 CL40 beating DDR4 4000 CL14, please share them. I’ve been dying to see something


----------



## D-EJ915

WebsterRKL said:


> Only guessing in usd:
> 
> Glacial $1799
> Extreme $999 - a one thousand dollar motherboard
> Formula $699
> Apex $649
> Hero $599
> 
> Only guessing


prices are all listed on newegg man lol

2k
1099
800
720
600


----------



## cstkl1

HyperMatrix said:


> And that would help in a situation where you’re bottlenecked and the system can’t keep up with requests. But it doesn’t do anything to shorten the time from request to delivery. That’s why the only memory benchmark leaks we’ve seen have had very high latency.
> 
> I admit that you know far more than I do about memory, but I still haven’t seen anything that would show an increase in performance in situations where the system is not backed up and waiting on additional requests to be put through. And I would like to see it. I’m not 100% set in my beliefs. But I need a reason to change them. So if you guys are hiding some benchmarks somewhere, showing DDR5 4800 CL40 beating DDR4 4000 CL14, please share them. I’ve been dying to see something


thats the ironic part. 
show me z590 tuf/strix mobo doing 4000c14

alot of ppl here never bench rkl but making light of how hard gear 1 is 

only two ppl are stable daily in the world. 
@sugi0lover @0451 
1T only one person. thats me on 3866c13..

you guys seem to think it was silicon lottery with comments like adl running 4000c14 etc.

why are u reading into the internet benchmarkd.. these guys dont know anything on memory oc. 

cause they dont have anybody to copy


----------



## WebsterRKL

D-EJ915 said:


> prices are all listed on newegg man lol
> 
> 2k
> 1099
> 800
> 720
> 600


Oh my God, they are soaking us. even Asus and Newegg are soaking us!

This is HORRIFIC!


----------



## HyperMatrix

cstkl1 said:


> thats the ironic part.
> show me z590 tuf/strix mobo doing 4000c14
> 
> alot of ppl here never bench rkl but making light of how hard gear 1 is
> 
> only two ppl are stable daily in the world.
> 1T only one person. you guys seem to think it was silicon lottery with comments like adl running 4000c14 etc.


Ok same question but with 3600c13 and 4800c17. Or even 4000c14 in gear 2. Are you saying that small difference allows DDR4 to surpass some DDR5 sticks? I’m trying to look for specific ways in which DDR5 4800-5200 which you defended, could surpass high end DDR4, when we’re talking about a non-bottlenecked situation like gaming. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just saying I having seen any proof, and I’d like to. And I’m saying this genuinely. I preordered a DDR4 motherboard. If I can see that DDR5 will have lower latency and be better for gaming, then I will cancel my preorder and get a DDR5 board.

I’ve heard all the theories around DDR5. But the only leaks I’ve seen show horrible latency. Much higher than even DDR4 4000C14 in gear 2. I’m looking for information as to how DDR5 would be superior in the scenario I mentioned, which is what gaming would fall under. This isn’t a situation where I want to be right and I want you to be wrong. I’m just looking for some sort of proof to help myself and many others who are stuck not knowing which way to go.


----------



## cstkl1

HyperMatrix said:


> Ok same question but with 3600c13 and 4800c17. Or even 4000c14 in gear 2. Are you saying that small difference allows DDR4 to surpass some DDR5 sticks? I’m trying to look for specific ways in which DDR5 4800-5200 which you defended, could surpass high end DDR4, when we’re talking about a non-bottlenecked situation like gaming. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just saying I having seen any proof, and I’d like to. And I’m saying this genuinely. I preordered a DDR4 motherboard. If I can see that DDR5 will have lower latency and be better for gaming, then I will cancel my preorder and get a DDR5 board.
> 
> I’ve heard all the theories around DDR5. But the only leaks I’ve seen show horrible latency. Much higher than even DDR4 4000C14 in gear 2. I’m looking for information as to how DDR5 would be superior in the scenario I mentioned, which is what gaming would fall under. This isn’t a situation where I want to be right and I want you to be wrong. I’m just looking for some sort of proof to help myself and many others who are stuck not knowing which way to go.


3600c13 is garbage and it will trade blows with ddr4 4800c17 and i dont do 4800-5200 ddr5 even with mismatch badly bin chipset stickd. 

already told everybody here. with that sotr satirical replies. go adl ddr5 

as for ram chipset oc etc. depends on the user right. that part i get if ppl want to wait to copy others. .. go ddr4

but stating something like in my hands ddr4 will beat ddr5 like comment.. its implying that that person is smarter than the rog team. that the rog team should xoc ln2 on ddr4. like dat fella who started a adl ddr4 oc thread. 

adl cpu has more oc features that might not be possible on low end boards.

so its like even cpu you are limiting your learning possibilities.


----------



## D-EJ915

DDR5 works differently than previous DDR types so it's pointless to look at the specs and try to compare.


----------



## HyperMatrix

D-EJ915 said:


> DDR5 works differently than previous DDR types so it's pointless to look at the specs and try to compare.


I was looking at benchmarks and comparing. Regardless of how they work, the resulting benchmarks should show the gains. Too many people saying 100% for sure all DDR5 is better than the best DDR4 without explaining why or accounting for the benchmark leaks showing worse latency, regardless of “specs” and the difference in the way they work. No point arguing though. We’ll find out one way or another next week.


----------



## cstkl1

some facts

DDR4 - rkl

Gear 2 5k c17-17-17-28 ..280
1T vs 2 T
78k vs 66k read
1T tm5 percycle time 3 min something. forgot lol. 

gear 1 3866 c13-14-14-14 ..218
1T vs 2T 
63.5k vs 62.7k read
but the difference is this one
tm5 per cycle time 
1T 10-15% faster and = 5kc17 gear 2 1T

any advantage 5kc17 had was GG vs gear 1 1T

DDR5 - adl
gear 2 behaves like ddr4 gear 1 

not apples to apples comparison. this is what i meant. ppl who didnt do rkl will find it harder on adl.

tm5 per cycle time 32gb ddr5 my oc atm 1T almost =16gb 3866c13 1T on rkl

thats almost 2X
thats on a bad mismatch chipset sticks.


----------



## cstkl1

so comments like ddr4 gear 2 4000, 
ddr4 cheapo boards doing 2T 4000
or 3600 ddr4 gear 1.. its like watching that youtuber framechaser.. keep posting videos stating facts and changing his mind everytime 
on the next video.


----------



## WebsterRKL

cstkl1 said:


> so comments like ddr4 gear 2 4000,
> ddr4 cheapo boards doing 2T 4000
> or 3600 ddr4 gear 1.. its like watching that youtuber framechaser.. keep posting videos stating facts and changing his mind everytime
> on the next video.


why some of us overclockers make 1.6m per year and some of us just tinkle.


----------



## cstkl1

WebsterRKL said:


> So you don't know anything about this and you are the king.


dont know about? king of? 

ddr5 start is way better than what ppl think. 
ppl are too engrossed in aida latency numbers . not saying its lower than ddr4 on this software but its lower than what ppl are assuming here. 

dont even know is the software atm a good tool to measure latency of ddr5

ddr5 behaves differently .. its seriously not a apples to apples to comparison so hence the use of
tm5 1usmusV3 cycle time which cpu, nvme even counts. so that boost also encompasses adl ipc.


----------



## clinnenb

cstkl1 said:


> dont know about? king of?
> 
> ddr5 start is way better than what ppl think.
> ppl are too engrossed in aida latency numbers . not saying its lower than ddr4 on this software but its lower than what ppl are assuming here.
> 
> dont even know is the software atm a good tool to measure latency of ddr5
> 
> ddr5 behaves differently .. its seriously not a apples to apples to comparison so hence the use of
> tm5 1usmusV3 cycle time which cpu, nvme even counts. so that boost also encompasses adl ipc.


The key in DDR latency is to look at the latency in time, not clocks. For the same number of clocks, as the frequency increases, the amount of time at the core & the real world decreases.


----------



## cstkl1

clinnenb said:


> The key in DDR latency is to look at the latency in time, not clocks. For the same number of clocks, as the frequency increases, the amount of time at the core & the real world decreases.


how does the two imc of adl plays a role in this? 

any insight etc.

scratch insight. you can tell us the fact.


----------



## clinnenb

cstkl1 said:


> how does the two imc of adl plays a role in this?
> 
> any insight etc.
> 
> scratch insight. you can tell us the fact.


Each CPU's MC architecture can have slight changes in the internal latencies. The main user-controllable factor here is gearing (G4, G2, G1), where the internal logic is geared at a ratio to the DDR physical/electrical IO signals. The higher gear will have effectively the same latency as it's 'neighbor' at 2x the freq:
4800G2 ~=2400G1, but with 2x the theoretical bandwidth.


----------



## cstkl1

clinnenb said:


> Each CPU's MC architecture can have slight changes in the internal latencies. The main user-controllable factor here is gearing (G4, G2, G1), where the internal logic is geared at a ratio to the DDR physical/electrical IO signals. The higher gear will have effectively the same latency as it's 'neighbor' at 2x the freq:
> 4800G2 ~=2400G1, but with 2x the theoretical bandwidth.


so y cant we use ddr5 gear 1? clock too high??

also does the two mc on adl for ddr5 have any impact on performance?


----------



## Kana Chan

Are you doing any testing on the integrated graphics?


----------



## cstkl1

Kana Chan said:


> Are you doing any testing on the integrated graphics?


isnt it just the same as rkl?


----------



## cstkl1

MSI confirms there are two die variants of Alder Lake-S desktop CPUs - VideoCardz.com


Intel 12th Gen Core “Alder Lake-S” desktop series feature two die types At the Innovation event, Intel confirmed it will launch as many as 60 SKUs based on Alder Lake silicon. What was not said is how many different types of processors there are exactly. During an MSI Insider stream, the company...




videocardz.com


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> thats the ironic part.
> alot of ppl here never bench rkl but making light of how hard gear 1 is
> 
> only two ppl are stable daily in the world.
> @sugi0lover @0451
> 1T only one person. thats me on 3866c13..


I'm also running 2x16 GB 4000 MHz gear 1 2T 100 MHz BCLK 14-15-15-15 on Apex Z590.

You should have mentioned that only going back to only 2x8 GB made it possible for you to run 3866 MHz gear 1 1T and that at unknown (to the majority) BCLK and voltages and on Apex Z590.


----------



## clackersx

I believe MSI often has interesting info or a better description or visual presentation of stuff when a new platform comes out and they do their livestreams. Eg hotspot, die config, pcie5, etc

Which I find surprising as I expect nothing but marketing and sales from everyone.

Just watch the two Asus videos so far and compare it to the MSI… Asus seems like 100% marketing, “we did this” “we implemented this” without really saying or explaining anything at the same time.

@cstkl1 The memory/controller improvements you are talking about, do they apply to DDR4 too? MSI seems to suggest there are improvements over RKL, two mem controllers on DDR4 too but cannot go into detail until after launch. I thought I read or saw that two MC was only for DDR5.
Around 1:01:30 



 pic attached of the section in video.

I checked out the data sheets but didn’t notice anything jump at me, I think I need to check previous gen data sheets to compare. I want to take some time to read them properly.


----------



## WebsterRKL

OMG!  $2000USD

And it's drop dead beautiful!


----------



## cstkl1

clackersx said:


> I believe MSI often has interesting info or a better description or visual presentation of stuff when a new platform comes out and they do their livestreams. Eg hotspot, die config, pcie5, etc
> 
> Which I find surprising as I expect nothing but marketing and sales from everyone.
> 
> Just watch the two Asus videos so far and compare it to the MSI… Asus seems like 100% marketing, “we did this” “we implemented this” without really saying or explaining anything at the same time.
> 
> @cstkl1 The memory/controller improvements you are talking about, do they apply to DDR4 too? MSI seems to suggest there are improvements over RKL, two mem controllers on DDR4 too but cannot go into detail until after launch. I thought I read or saw that two MC was only for DDR5.
> Around 1:01:30
> 
> 
> 
> pic attached of the section in video.
> 
> I checked out the data sheets but didn’t notice anything jump at me, I think I need to check previous gen data sheets to compare. I want to take some time to read them properly.
> View attachment 2530563


good find. imc info part only from was rumourered.

as for fact. page 83 of data-sheet com-firms its
as what msi stated..

nda. on bios/cpu only on 4th. 

as for what they can do etc. if its not 1T. not interested.

as for msi ddr4. its good they try something after the terrible rkl hype of their boards.


----------



## cstkl1

WebsterRKL said:


> OMG!  $2000USD
> 
> And it's drop dead beautiful!


ekwb selling usd 999. 
thats pretty cheap


----------



## clackersx

cstkl1 said:


> good find. imc info part only from was rumourered.
> 
> as for fact. page 83 of data-sheet com-firms its
> as what msi stated..
> 
> nda. on bios/cpu only on 4th.
> 
> as for what they can do etc. if its not 1T. not interested.
> 
> as for msi ddr4. its good they try something after the terrible rkl hype of their boards.


I interpreted the datasheet wrong, seems obvious and clear now I read it for the 5th time.

“After launch” is when MSI will go into detail on the changes and explain the performance difference on DDR4 from RKL and the dual MC as well all the expected benchmarks and oc Etc.

That won’t be till the 10th, which seems like an eternity after the NDA/launch, every man and his dog will have a review and tech breakdown out before then. 
I’ll still watch the MSI livestream on the 10th, just in case it has some interesting info or tips.

Id still love to see some SSD benchmarks if someone is wanting ideas on what to test on ADL.
QD1 stuff, not just high QD and sequential. Maybe some RAID0 configs.


----------



## ogider

Intel Alder Lake: Gaming Performance Benchmarks - Why an AMD Radeon RX 6900XT makes more sense instead of an NVIDIA RTX A6000 or GeForce RTX 3090 | igor'sLAB


Disclaimer: The following article is machine translated from the original German, and has not been edited or checked for errors. Thank you for understanding!




www.igorslab.de


----------



## cstkl1

ogider said:


> Intel Alder Lake: Gaming Performance Benchmarks - Why an AMD Radeon RX 6900XT makes more sense instead of an NVIDIA RTX A6000 or GeForce RTX 3090 | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> Disclaimer: The following article is machine translated from the original German, and has not been edited or checked for errors. Thank you for understanding!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de


3/11 . on the 3rd post.


----------



## Shawnb99

WebsterRKL said:


> OMG!  $2000USD
> 
> And it's drop dead beautiful!


We have very different definitions of beautiful. I think that's one of the ugliest things I've every seen. I want to rip my eyes out and never look at it again. Sadly I may end grabbing the non Glacier model.


----------



## cstkl1

Shawnb99 said:


> We have very different definitions of beautiful. I think that's one of the ugliest things I've every seen. I want to rip my eyes out and never look at it again. Sadly I may end grabbing the non Glacier model.


think glacial from ek cheaper than extreme
usd 999


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

cstkl1 said:


> as for msi ddr4. its good they try something after the terrible rkl hype of their boards.


I thought the MEG Godlike ones are for world record feats?? (overkill construction)


----------



## cstkl1

kairi_zeroblade said:


> I thought the MEG Godlike ones are for world record feats?? (overkill construction)


think that was many moons ago


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

cstkl1 said:


> think that was many moons ago


OOF!!..hahaha.. 🤣


----------



## HyperMatrix

cstkl1 said:


> think glacial from ek cheaper than extreme
> usd 999


That's just the price for the monoblock. Not including motherboard. It's also not sold separately despite a price being shown.


----------



## cstkl1

HyperMatrix said:


> That's just the price for the monoblock. Not including motherboard. It's also not sold separately despite a price being shown.


its the price of the board with block by definition

whats throwing ppl off is the product naming


----------



## HyperMatrix

cstkl1 said:


> its the price of the board with block by definition
> 
> whats throwing ppl off is the product naming


If you’re seeing this and think it includes the motherboard, you are mistaken. If you’re seeing a listing somewhere else that includes the motherboard, please share the link. Because at $999 I would definitely buy that board.


----------



## cstkl1

HyperMatrix said:


> If you’re seeing this and think it includes the motherboard, you are mistaken. If you’re seeing a listing somewhere else that includes the motherboard, please share the link. Because at $999 I would definitely buy that board.
> 
> View attachment 2530594


and whats the 2nd pic
and whats the learn more which details spec of the board on EK website

y is a block worth usd 999 but cannot be bought. y is it on the shop with wishlist??

so either its 999 for it or typo missing 1999


----------



## cstkl1

ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Hero(WiFi 6E) LGA 1700(Intel®12th&13th Gen) ATX gaming motherboard(PCIe 5.0,DDR5, 20+1 90A power stages,2.5Gb LAN,Bluetooth V5.2,2x Thunderbolt 4 ports,5xM.2/NVMe SSD) - Newegg.com


Buy ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Hero(WiFi 6E) LGA 1700(Intel®12th&13th Gen) ATX gaming motherboard(PCIe 5.0,DDR5, 20+1 90A power stages,2.5Gb LAN,Bluetooth V5.2,2x Thunderbolt 4 ports,5xM.2/NVMe SSD,Front panel USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 Type-C connector) with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once...




www.newegg.com





hero usd 599


----------



## HyperMatrix

cstkl1 said:


> and whats the 2nd pic
> and whats the learn more which details spec of the board on EK website
> 
> y is a block worth usd 999 but cannot be bought. y is it on the shop with wishlist??
> 
> so either its 999 for it or typo missing 1999


The second pic is showing what it would look like on the board. Hence why the board has been darkened in that picture. There is no typo on the price as the item is not available for individual sale. Why they’ve listed it with a $999 price at all….you’ll have to email them and ask. Maybe it’s a way to give the block some value as well as show off what they’re making and selling. But I assure you, it’s not $999 for the board and block together.


----------



## carlhil2

https://valid.x86.fr/5d35ij


----------



## cstkl1

HyperMatrix said:


> The second pic is showing what it would look like on the board. Hence why the board has been darkened in that picture. There is no typo on the price as the item is not available for individual sale. Why they’ve listed it with a $999 price at all….you’ll have to email them and ask. Maybe it’s a way to give the block some value as well as show off what they’re making and selling. But I assure you, it’s not $999 for the board and block together.


ok ok. fair enough.


----------



## cstkl1

carlhil2 said:


> https://valid.x86.fr/5d35ij
> 
> 
> View attachment 2530596


win 10?

ures? 813 kindda low. hmm the 5.2 was loaded properly?

2T so slow.


----------



## carlhil2

Nah, not me. just posted for the values. looks to be stock at 4.9Ghz all cores maybe with DDR4?


----------



## cstkl1

carlhil2 said:


> Nah, not me. just posted for the values. looks to be stock at 4.9Ghz all cores maybe with DDR4?


most probably the single thread boost clock not showing.


----------



## carlhil2

cstkl1 said:


> most probably the single thread boost clock not showing.


I want big cores at 5.2Ghz and little cores at 4.2Ghz as far as the all cores OC for 24/7 use. not including uncore/ram OC. coming from SKL ipc performance should be impressive..


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> win 10?
> 
> ures? 813 kindda low. hmm the 5.2 was loaded properly?
> 
> 2T so slow.
> 
> View attachment 2530597


cfg 1Usmus made with errors.
Please use "Universal" ( faster ) or "Absolute" ( slower but hard)


https://anonfiles.com/L9M4JbR6uf/absolutnew_cfg




https://anonfiles.com/NdM4J9R7u9/Universal2_LMhz_cfg



That's why I asked you if there were any problems with the apex from cr1.
Gear 2 + cr2 is destructive.


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> cfg 1Usmus made with errors.
> Please use "Universal" ( faster ) or "Absolute" ( slower but hard)
> 
> 
> https://anonfiles.com/L9M4JbR6uf/absolutnew_cfg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://anonfiles.com/NdM4J9R7u9/Universal2_LMhz_cfg
> 
> 
> 
> That's why I asked you if there were any problems with the apex from cr1.
> Gear 2 + cr2 is destructive.


no.
its not like ddr4 gear 2 1T vs 2T
its exactly like ddr4 gear 1 1T vs 2T


----------



## cstkl1

@2500k_2 

hci, aida wont see a significant the diff between 1t vs 2T gear 2 ddr5

exactly like ddr4 gear 1. hence y hoping that intel techical dude who posted here to answer. 
but dude just gave an answer we already knew back im rkl ddr4..

ddr5 behaving differently.


----------



## cstkl1

Most of Gigabyte's Intel Z690 Motherboards Only Features Two Audio Jacks


Although we're going to try and cover all the newly launched Intel Z690 based motherboards more thoroughly before the retail availability date, we had a quick look already on what's on offer and we were struck by something rather odd when it comes to Gigabyte, most of their new boards only have...




www.techpowerup.com





what up with this..


----------



## ScomComputers

World's Fastest Intel Alder Lake
Premier : 2021. nov. 4


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

I have optimus block for 10900k. Will it fit Alder Lake or I need to buy a different mounting kit?


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

Thanh Nguyen said:


> I have optimus block for 10900k. Will it fit Alder Lake or I need to buy a different mounting kit?


if you're gonna use an Asus board, they say the LGA1200 brackets/mounting mechanisms should still work..


----------



## sblantipodi

is there someone that understood how frequency works now with 2 bank kit and with 4 bank kit?


----------



## Nizzen

sblantipodi said:


> is there someone that understood how frequency works now with 2 bank kit and with 4 bank kit?


Wait a few days


----------



## cstkl1

Thanh Nguyen said:


> I have optimus block for 10900k. Will it fit Alder Lake or I need to buy a different mounting kit?


no prob bitspower mystic black

which is a very big block.


----------



## cstkl1

sblantipodi said:


> is there someone that understood how frequency works now with 2 bank kit and with 4 bank kit?


bad. if you are talking about oc. and chipset specific. 1T can forget it.
highest oc daily wait for safedisk when he is free .. he will oc the extreme board

so maybe when chipset gets better


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

cstkl1 said:


> he will oc the extreme board


or they already did?? NDA seems to be in the way of revealing the results we've been wanting to see.. 🤣


----------



## cstkl1

kairi_zeroblade said:


> or they already did?? NDA seems to be in the way of revealing the results we've been wanting to see.. 🤣


he is prep ln2. rog team always day 1..


----------



## Arni90

HyperMatrix said:


> Ok same question but with 3600c13 and 4800c17. Or even 4000c14 in gear 2. Are you saying that small difference allows DDR4 to surpass some DDR5 sticks? I’m trying to look for specific ways in which DDR5 4800-5200 which you defended, could surpass high end DDR4, when we’re talking about a non-bottlenecked situation like gaming. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just saying I having seen any proof, and I’d like to. And I’m saying this genuinely. I preordered a DDR4 motherboard. If I can see that DDR5 will have lower latency and be better for gaming, then I will cancel my preorder and get a DDR5 board.
> 
> I’ve heard all the theories around DDR5. But the only leaks I’ve seen show horrible latency. Much higher than even DDR4 4000C14 in gear 2. I’m looking for information as to how DDR5 would be superior in the scenario I mentioned, which is what gaming would fall under. This isn’t a situation where I want to be right and I want you to be wrong. I’m just looking for some sort of proof to help myself and many others who are stuck not knowing which way to go.


DDR5 has a lot of changes under the hood to improve bandwidth. Even if the theoretical limit is similar between high-clocked DDR4 and low-clocked DDR5, the effective bandwidth is different thanks to more bank groups, per-bank refresh, and smaller memory channels.

As for the higher latency, that's probably caused in part by an increase in burst length combined with the reduction in memory channel width. But what does it really matter? Even an L1 access wastes 4-5 cycles of execution time, what actually matters is that the CPU manages to load whatever data is needed before it stalls due to 100+ cycle memory accesses.


----------



## cstkl1

Arni90 said:


> DDR5 has a lot of changes under the hood to improve bandwidth. Even if the theoretical limit is similar between high-clocked DDR4 and low-clocked DDR5, the effective bandwidth is different thanks to more bank groups, per-bank refresh, and smaller memory channels.
> 
> As for the higher latency, that's probably caused in part by an increase in burst length combined with the reduction in memory channel width. But what does it really matter? Even an L1 access wastes 4-5 cycles of execution time, what actually matters is that the CPU manages to load whatever data is needed before it stalls due to 100+ cycle memory accesses.


@Jwick found a bug on aida

effects in ddr4 rkl etc all

try bclk oc. watch the result.

lol. i am doing 200 for SS lol.


----------



## carlhil2

@5.1 all cores: https://valid.x86.fr/2ryieb


----------



## HyperMatrix

carlhil2 said:


> @5.1 all cores: https://valid.x86.fr/2ryieb
> View attachment 2530656


Interesting thing in this vs. that 4888MHz one a couple page back is that was DDR4 3600C18 1T (I assume gear 1?). This one is DDR5 4800C40 2T. If we take a look at clock speeds we see 5100MHz is a 4.3% increase in clocks vs 4888MHz. But single core performance goes up only 2.6%. Of course there are a ton of other variables that could be affecting the scores so what I'm saying is mostly just wishful thinking rather than fact. Haha. Hope to see more benchmark leaks to determine if I need to cancel my DDR4 board preorder and buy DDR5. 

Although taking a further look, there's also the matter of the DDR4 scores being on Windows 10 and the DDR5 scores being on Windows 11. Just to muddy things up a bit.


----------



## carlhil2

HyperMatrix said:


> Interesting thing in this vs. that 4888MHz one a couple page back is that was DDR4 3600C18 1T (I assume gear 1?). This one is DDR5 4800C40 2T. If we take a look at clock speeds we see 5100MHz is a 4.3% increase in clocks vs 4888MHz. But single core performance goes up only 2.6%. Of course there are a ton of other variables that could be affecting the scores so what I'm saying is mostly just wishful thinking rather than fact. Haha. Hope to see more benchmark leaks to determine if I need to cancel my DDR4 board preorder and buy DDR5.
> 
> Although taking a further look, there's also the matter of the DDR4 scores being on Windows 10 and the DDR5 scores being on Windows 11. Just to muddy things up a bit.


Beats my ST score at 4.7Ghz by almost 59%, I'll take it. LOL..


----------



## D-EJ915

cstkl1 said:


> Most of Gigabyte's Intel Z690 Motherboards Only Features Two Audio Jacks
> 
> 
> Although we're going to try and cover all the newly launched Intel Z690 based motherboards more thoroughly before the retail availability date, we had a quick look already on what's on offer and we were struck by something rather odd when it comes to Gigabyte, most of their new boards only have...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.techpowerup.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what up with this..


no one uses surround anymore is probably why, most mini boards don't have them anyway.



Thanh Nguyen said:


> I have optimus block for 10900k. Will it fit Alder Lake or I need to buy a different mounting kit?


It works on hedt hole spacing so it'll work on 1700.


----------



## Falkentyne

carlhil2 said:


> @5.1 all cores: https://valid.x86.fr/2ryieb
> View attachment 2530656


Load voltage (full load minimum vcore) needed for this after vdroop? The 1.322v is the idle voltage.
I assume bios voltage set, loadline calibration are NDA though so I don't expect a response for a few days...


----------



## 12700KF

clackersx said:


> I believe MSI often has interesting info or a better description or visual presentation of stuff when a new platform comes out and they do their livestreams. Eg hotspot, die config, pcie5, etc
> 
> Which I find surprising as I expect nothing but marketing and sales from everyone.
> 
> Just watch the two Asus videos so far and compare it to the MSI… Asus seems like 100% marketing, “we did this” “we implemented this” without really saying or explaining anything at the same time.
> 
> @cstkl1 The memory/controller improvements you are talking about, do they apply to DDR4 too? MSI seems to suggest there are improvements over RKL, two mem controllers on DDR4 too but cannot go into detail until after launch. I thought I read or saw that two MC was only for DDR5.
> Around 1:01:30
> 
> 
> 
> pic attached of the section in video.
> 
> I checked out the data sheets but didn’t notice anything jump at me, I think I need to check previous gen data sheets to compare. I want to take some time to read them properly.
> View attachment 2530563


Hmm, what I saw:
MSI copy ASUS Q-latch M.2 drive mounting mechanism
MSI copy ASUS and implemented something like ASUS SP rating for CPU.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

82c at 5.1ghz. What kinda cooling we need for this one?


----------



## D-EJ915

12700KF said:


> Hmm, what I saw:
> MSI copy ASUS Q-latch M.2 drive mounting mechanism
> MSI copy ASUS and implemented something like ASUS SP rating for CPU.


lol, easy mounting m.2 been in server space for ages now, consumer brands like asus are just now implementing it. It is good though, not sure why anyone thought those small screws were a good idea.

example: Dell EMC PowerEdge R740 Installation and Service Manual | Dell US


----------



## ZealotKi11er

So what is the easiest way to bin a intel cpu these days. I used to look at vmin for 3770K and usually the ones with lower vmin could OC much higher.


----------



## 2500k_2

12700KF said:


> Hmm, what I saw:
> MSI copy ASUS Q-latch M.2 drive mounting mechanism
> MSI copy ASUS and implemented something like ASUS SP rating for CPU.


it was a long time ago. in rocketlake


----------



## 12700KF

D-EJ915 said:


> lol, easy mounting m.2 been in server space for ages now, consumer brands like *asus* are *just now* *implementing it*. It is good though, not sure why anyone thought those small screws were a good idea.
> 
> example: Dell EMC PowerEdge R740 Installation and Service Manual | Dell US


Not true. For example the Rocket Lake Strix Z590-F has it already. So ASUS has it since RL at consumer segment at least.


----------



## 2500k_2

Thanh Nguyen said:


> 82c at 5.1ghz. What kinda cooling we need for this one?


LN2


----------



## ldt

carlhil2 said:


> @5.1 all cores: https://valid.x86.fr/2ryieb
> View attachment 2530656


What kind of ICs that Kingston used in this memory ? My order on its way but don't known what it is ? hope it used hynix ICs


----------



## cstkl1

ldt said:


> What kind of ICs that Kingston used in this memory ? My order on its way but don't known what it is ? hope it used hynix ICs


6400 should be doable 

atm dont worry about tcl/twcl. focus on 2nd/third + rtl


----------



## D-EJ915

12700KF said:


> Not true. For example the Rocket Lake Strix Z590-F has it already. So ASUS has it since RL at consumer segment at least.


What's not true? it has been in server segment since M.2 came out. If it makes you feel better to believe Asus came up with it then have fun I guess lol.


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> 6400 should be doable
> 
> atm dont worry about tcl/twcl. focus on 2nd/third + rtl


does the asus bios z690 have access to the tRC?


----------



## 12700KF

D-EJ915 said:


> What's not true? it has been in server segment since M.2 came out. If it makes you feel better to believe Asus came up with it then have fun I guess lol.


Did you see the bold text? I was not talking about server segment at all. But you said Asus implenting it just now. And it´s not true, they have it since RL. Is it clear now? lol


----------



## D-EJ915

12700KF said:


> Did you see the bold text? I was not talking about server segment at all. But you said Asus implenting it just now. And it´s not true, they have it since RL. Is it clear now? lol


I mean that's great but msi is not copying asus feature since it was never an asus designed feature, whole point was to clear that up but I guess my wording was not clear enough. It is still nice that server features are migrating down to consumer more, been using M.2 latches like this and other styles for several years now and it is a lot more convenient.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Anyone know where to pre order gskill ddr5 in the US?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Anyone know where to pre order gskill ddr5 in the US?


Newegg seems to be the primary distributor. I won't buy any DDR5 until GSkill starts selling gold DIMMs. They are announcing a new fastest kit every week.


----------



## clackersx

12700KF said:


> Hmm, what I saw:
> MSI copy ASUS Q-latch M.2 drive mounting mechanism
> MSI copy ASUS and implemented something like ASUS SP rating for CPU.


Thats strange, I saw some interesting or useful non brand specific information on the new platform and a sprinkling of technical explanations hidden in boring marketing on the MSI video, at least comparative to the two Asus videos which seemed more like pure marketing.

Maybe I fell asleep and imagined it all though? they were super long videos.


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> does the asus bios z690 have access to the tRC?


trc is math based.


----------



## cstkl1

clackersx said:


> Thats strange, I saw some interesting or useful non brand specific information on the new platform and a sprinkling of technical explanations hidden in boring marketing on the MSI video, at least comparative to the two Asus videos which seemed more like pure marketing.
> 
> Maybe I fell asleep and imagined it all though? they were super long videos.


msi skirted nda. make that conclusion when its lifted.


----------



## cstkl1

@Nizzen
would u daily this ?


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2530690
> 
> @Nizzen
> would u daily this ?


I see a BSOD in my future...


----------



## nexxusty

HyperMatrix said:


> That's just the price for the monoblock. Not including motherboard. It's also not sold separately despite a price being shown.


Lol, no.

Nobody is selling a $1K monoblock. Not even EK.


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2530690
> 
> @Nizzen
> would u daily this ?


No, because of afraid of OCD...

4999.4 and 3199.6 🤯😵


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> No, because of afraid of OCD...
> 
> 4999.4 and 3199.6 🤯😵


that one nothing...

the bclk 200 bro...
adl seems to be easy any bclk to u want..


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> that one nothing...
> 
> the bclk 200 bro...
> adl seems to be easy any bclk to u want..


when the bus is overclocked, the speed of execution of AVX instructions drops. Compare Gflops in Linx / 5.0 * 100 and 2.5 * 200. the speed of L1 cache also drops.
or Intel has made innovations. If this is so, then it is understandable why there are no b660 and 12400 boards. They would have spoiled sales.


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> when the bus is overclocked, the speed of execution of AVX instructions drops. Compare Gflops in Linx / 5.0 * 100 and 2.5 * 200. the speed of L1 cache also drops.
> or Intel has made innovations. If this is so, then it is understandable why there are no b660 and 12400 boards. They would have spoiled sales.


no diff gflops infact a bit higher and u cannot use aida.. cause bugged.. the scores will be world record.

but overall no diff vs 100


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> no diff gflops infact a bit higher and u cannot use aida.. cause bugged.. the scores will be world record.
> 
> but overall no diff vs 100


good news


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> good news


but i wish i could get an answer on that DDR5 behaviour.


----------



## cstkl1

Game list to test
SOTTR
HZD
F1 2020
FC6

anymore that has in game benchmark


----------



## Groove2013

Singlecore perf difference boosts FPS really a lot in Hitman 3.
But no idea if it has in-game benchmark.


----------



## Groove2013

Hitman 3 is more sensitive to single core perf than Far Cry 6 and much more than F1 2021.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> Hitman 3 is more sensitive to single core perf than Far Cry 6 and much more than F1 2021.


need a 5950x or rkl oc/tuned benchmark with game settings used. so can validate


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Therse are games with built in benchmark that I know so far.
Metro Exodus, F1, Far Cry 6, Rainbow Six Siege, Borderland 3, Dirt 5, Shadow of Mordor, Strange Brigade, Crysis, GTA 5, Assassin Creed Vahalla, Shadow of Tomb Raider,Grid 2019, CS Go, Watch Dogs Legion.


----------



## Groove2013

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Therse are games with built in benchmark that I know so far.
> Metro Exodus, F1, Far Cry 6, Rainbow Six Siege, Borderland 3, Dirt 5, Shadow of Mordor, Strange Brigade, Crysis, GTA 5, Assassin Creed Vahalla, Shadow of Tomb Raider,Grid 2019.


Grid 2019 is the most sensitive to single core perf improvements.


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> Game list to test
> SOTTR
> HZD
> F1 2020
> FC6
> 
> anymore that has in game benchmark


If it's not difficult to test, please:
Photoworks in Aida64 (large memory bandwidth of ddr5 should show itself well)
And Linx 0.9.11 task 35000 is interesting to compare Gflops 16c 24t (all cores) vs 8c 16t (performance cores only) at the same frequency from the same memory settings.
(if I am not mistaken then when turning off E-cores, you can turn on avx-512 on the remaining 8 productive cores.)


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

cstkl1 said:


> adl seems to be easy any bclk to u want..


separate clock gen for Bclock?


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> If it's not difficult to test, please:
> Photoworks in Aida64 (large memory bandwidth of ddr5 should show itself well)
> And Linx 0.9.11 task 35000 is interesting to compare Gflops 16c 24t (all cores) vs 8c 16t (performance cores only) at the same frequency from the same memory settings.
> (if I am not mistaken then when turning off E-cores, you can turn on avx-512 on the remaining 8 productive cores.)


this atm.. hmm the avx 512 thing. theres some story on it. @Falkentyne . it might be revoked.


----------



## cstkl1

kairi_zeroblade said:


> separate clock gen for Bclock?


as per previous intel cpu 

just the ease of that 200 was insane. bump sa. done.


----------



## 12700KF

kairi_zeroblade said:


> separate clock gen for Bclock?


There is Shamino1978 post about Intel vs BCLK:
(2) Overclocking 11700k/11900k results, bins and discussion | Page 265 | Overclock.net
_"bclk oc got a bad name because platforms keep going back and forth between coupled and decoupled
since Skylake: all intel mainstream cpus bclk decoupled from pcie
intel hedt: coupled so far

amd: AM4: coupled except summit ridge's short-lived special "eclk mode 2" which can decouple bclk from pcie.

so all intel mainstream can easily use bclk without worries."_


And as @cstkl1 confirmed, it apply to ADL as well, so it´s great!


----------



## geriatricpollywog

I’d like to see some 1440 and 2160 benches at ultra settings. I don’t run anything at 1080 low. The point would be to see if a faster CPU makes a difference at the resolutions I use.


----------



## Shawnb99

0451 said:


> I’d like to see some 1440 and 2160 benches at ultra settings. I don’t run anything at 1080 low. The point would be to see if a faster CPU makes a difference at the resolutions I use.


Yeah same. 1080 benchmarks are meaningless to me. Let’s see how much improvement I see at 4k


----------



## Nizzen

Shawnb99 said:


> Yeah same. 1080 benchmarks are meaningless to me. Let’s see how much improvement I see at 4k


If it's 100% gpubound, there is no difference anyway 

I'm playing games in 3440x1440, so it's a bit of both with 3090


----------



## carlhil2

I am just hoping for higher minimums at 4k...


----------



## Nizzen

carlhil2 said:


> I am just hoping for higher minimums at 4k...


Buy better gpu, if min fps is a problem in 4k


----------



## Spiriva

I got these today:










The shop i bought from in Sweden apperently sent out a few ddr5 packs before november 4, by misstake.
To bad they didnt send the cpu/mobo too 

Im looking to buy some faster G.Skill later on, these will do for now.


----------



## carlhil2

Nizzen said:


> Buy better gpu, if min fps is a problem in 4k


Lol. nah, I will hold on to my 2080Ti til next round....


----------



## Talon2016

Spiriva said:


> I got these today:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The shop i bought from in Sweden apperently sent out a few ddr5 packs before november 4, by misstake.
> To bad they didnt send the cpu/mobo too
> 
> Im looking to buy some faster G.Skill later on, these will do for now.


Picked up the same kit from Best Buy 2 days ago. I just need my motherboard and I am ready to go. Got the Apex on order from Newegg.


----------



## phillyman36

This is what I have so far. Ram came today. I also got a notice from Newegg that my pre order for the 12900k is delayed. Didn't say how long so I might have to hit Microcenter Thursday.


----------



## sniperpowa

phillyman36 said:


> View attachment 2530782
> 
> 
> 
> phillyman36 said:
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2530782
> 
> 
> This is what I have so far. Ram came today. I also got a notice from Newegg that my pre order for the 12900k is delayed. Didn't say how long so I might have to hit Microcenter Thursday.
> This is what I have so far. Ram came today. I also got a notice from Newegg that my pre order for the 12900k is delayed. Didn't say how long so I might have to hit Microcenter Thursday.
Click to expand...




phillyman36 said:


> View attachment 2530782
> 
> 
> This is what I have so far. Ram came today. I also got a notice from Newegg that my pre order for the 12900k is delayed. Didn't say how long so I might have to hit Microcenter Thursday.


I got that same email twice from Newegg. Trying to see if I can get it elsewhere. My apex is ordered haven’t received an email for that delay just yet.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Not sure its real or fake





i9 12900K vs Ryzen 9 5950X vs Ryzen 9 5900X RTX 3090 TEST IN 10 GAMES_哔哩哔哩_bilibili


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ubMYhIsh5U&t=478s外网刚看到的 真假未知, 视频播放量 12698、弹幕量 24、点赞数 65、投硬币枚数 1、收藏人数 10、转发人数 27, 视频作者 逝空物语, 作者简介 游戏 数码 硬件软体 一站式UP ，相关视频：CPU天梯图，这次你又站在哪呢？山顶、山脚还是...，CPU游戏性能对比测试 Intel i9-9900K vs AMD 5900X vs i9-10900K vs 5950X，5950X vs 11900K vs 5900x vs Core 10900K 游戏测试，Ryzen 5...




m.bilibili.com


----------



## phillyman36

@sniperpowa Yeah I got it 2x as well. My ram appears to be a First Edition. Number 149 and 150 are numbered in the sticks.


----------



## Falkentyne

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Not sure its real or fake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 12900K-哔哩哔哩_Bilibili
> 
> 
> bilibili是国内知名的视频弹幕网站，这里有及时的动漫新番，活跃的ACG氛围，有创意的Up主。大家可以在这里找到许多欢乐。
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.bilibili.com


Your link goes nowhere. Check it.


----------



## cstkl1

errr alot of the 4k ultra high etc etc comments

isnt a 11400 + 4x16gb ddr3200 with b560 with rtx 3090 enough?


----------



## HyperMatrix

cstkl1 said:


> errr alot of the 4k ultra high etc etc comments
> 
> isnt a 11400 + 4x16gb ddr3200 with b560 with rtx 3090 enough?


…no. I got a noticeable performance bump going from 10900k to 11900k at 4K Ultra. People too often discount the value of higher cpu performance on frame pacing and minimum fps. That’s why you saw the 11900k lose to the 5900x/5950x at 1080p but win out at 4K.


----------



## Nizzen

HyperMatrix said:


> …no. I got a noticeable performance bump going from 10900k to 11900k at 4K Ultra. People too often discount the value of higher cpu performance on frame pacing and minimum fps. That’s why you saw the 11900k lose to the 5900x/5950x at 1080p but win out at 4K.


How much? We want to see, so we don't need to test ourself


----------



## ViTosS

4k my friend with a 7900x and 4x8GB 3200CL16 RAM scores exactly the same as me in the same GPU clocks (same GPU)


----------



## cstkl1

HyperMatrix said:


> …no. I got a noticeable performance bump going from 10900k to 11900k at 4K Ultra. People too often discount the value of higher cpu performance on frame pacing and minimum fps. That’s why you saw the 11900k lose to the 5900x/5950x at 1080p but win out at 4K.


i will be frank about this

in vermintide 2 2 1440p max capframeX 5 games run legend bot solo runs..

even though the avg was 9 fps higher than my 11900k which was like 10 fps higher than my 10900k

the 1% and 0.1%.. 11900k a champion by 10fps difference.
the 12900k stock = 11900k oced average

but the value of the cpu comes from power draw. idle 100w less and in game its more like 10900k 90-100w vs 140-150w on 11900k oced.

also slight unfair comparison cause for 11900k to shine we need to do manual oc to attain high cache which result in cstate off.


----------



## cstkl1

https://dl.benchmate.org/bm-0.10.9.0-preview1.exe












updated 2nd post


----------



## HyperMatrix

Nizzen said:


> How much? We want to see, so we don't need to test ourself


Too late for that now. It’s 12900k time. But from what I recall I was getting between 5-10% higher fps in Cyberpunk 2077 with the 11900k. You can look up game fps average benchmarks from anywhere that compared performance at 4K Ultra for the 11900k. You’ll see on average of games Ryzen was better at 1080p. If it were just a superior CPU and that’s all that mattered, it should have carried through to higher resolutions. But as resolution went up and games were more GPU bound, the 11900k won out in fps averages.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

cstkl1 said:


> i will be frank about this
> 
> in vermintide 2 2 1440p max capframeX 5 games run legend bot solo runs..
> 
> even though the avg was 9 fps higher than my 11900k which was like 10 fps higher than my 10900k
> 
> the 1% and 0.1%.. 11900k a champion by 10fps difference.
> the 12900k stock = 11900k oced average
> 
> but the value of the cpu comes from power draw. idle 100w less and in game its more like 10900k 90-100w vs 140-150w on 11900k oced.
> 
> also slight unfair comparison cause for 11900k to shine we need to do manual oc to attain high cache which result in cstate off.


So 11900K beats 12900K in .1 and .01% low in Vermintide 1080p?


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> So 11900K beats 12900K in .1 and .01% low in Vermintide 1080p?


no 1440p max .. gpu hitting 450watts at time and cpu like almost fully loaded at times.

not sure its a cstate or win 11 vs win 10 thing.

and its 1% and 0.1% low


----------



## Daniel M

Ordered the Kingston DDR5 32GB 5200Mhz kit from a smaller shop. They emailed me this morning saying they're hoping for it to arrive by end of week. 

I might be going to Microcenter Thursday morning. Hoping NewEgg Business ships my 12900k and Amazon ships the Hero board.


----------



## AngryLobster

Daniel M said:


> Ordered the Kingston DDR5 32GB 5200Mhz kit from a smaller shop. They emailed me this morning saying they're hoping for it to arrive by end of week.
> 
> I might be going to Microcenter Thursday morning. Hoping NewEgg Business ships my 12900k and Amazon ships the Hero board.


What's you're ETA from Amazon on the Hero? Mine shows November 8th and I thought I ordered super early just as it was listed.


----------



## cstkl1

also another note.. i dont have the pch drivers official ones yet..


----------



## Daniel M

AngryLobster said:


> What's you're ETA from Amazon on the Hero? Mine shows November 8th and I thought I ordered super early just as it was listed.


I also show the 8th. Hoping they're being overly cautious like they were with my 10900k.


----------



## ldt

Daniel M said:


> Ordered the Kingston DDR5 32GB 5200Mhz kit from a smaller shop. They emailed me this morning saying they're hoping for it to arrive by end of week.
> 
> I might be going to Microcenter Thursday morning. Hoping NewEgg Business ships my 12900k and Amazon ships the Hero board.


How much for 32GB Kingston DDR5 , It's hard to find DDR5 now


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Not sure its real or fake
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i9 12900K vs Ryzen 9 5950X vs Ryzen 9 5900X RTX 3090 TEST IN 10 GAMES_哔哩哔哩_bilibili
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ubMYhIsh5U&t=478s外网刚看到的 真假未知, 视频播放量 12698、弹幕量 24、点赞数 65、投硬币枚数 1、收藏人数 10、转发人数 27, 视频作者 逝空物语, 作者简介 游戏 数码 硬件软体 一站式UP ，相关视频：CPU天梯图，这次你又站在哪呢？山顶、山脚还是...，CPU游戏性能对比测试 Intel i9-9900K vs AMD 5900X vs i9-10900K vs 5950X，5950X vs 11900K vs 5900x vs Core 10900K 游戏测试，Ryzen 5...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m.bilibili.com


Bilibili was in the past ever real, that don´t look bad for for the ADL.


----------



## HyperMatrix

PhoenixMDA said:


> Bilibili was in the past ever real, that don´t look bad for for the ADL.


Looks fake to me. He says he's using 600MHz DDR4, along with a Z490 motherboard. The choice of an 850W PSU if running 3090 and and 12900k is also questionable. Not to mention tested on Windows 10 according to his own system info.


----------



## cstkl1

HyperMatrix said:


> Looks fake to me. He says he's using 600MHz DDR4, along with a Z490 motherboard. The choice of an 850W PSU if running 3090 and and 12900k is also questionable. Not to mention tested on Windows 10 according to his own system info.


the original vid






fake


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

Game tits?? 🤣 

that even has a video with a 5950x and 12900K using 6900xt comparison..


----------



## IronAge

https://valid.x86.fr/mx5qrf



FFS Apex.


----------



## sugi0lover

*DDR5-7000 CL40-40-40-76 32GB (2x16GB) *announced~ Wow~








G.SKILL Showcases DDR5-7000 CL40 Extreme Speed Memory - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


2 November 2021 – G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd., the world’s leading manufacturer of extreme performance memory and gaming peripherals, is thrilled to announce the achievement of DDR5-7000 CL40-40-40-76 32GB 2x16GB extreme speed, passing the Memtest stability test. 7000MTs memory...




www.gskill.com


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

sugi0lover said:


> *DDR5-7000 CL40-40-40-76 32GB (2x16GB) *announced~ Wow~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Showcases DDR5-7000 CL40 Extreme Speed Memory - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> 2 November 2021 – G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd., the world’s leading manufacturer of extreme performance memory and gaming peripherals, is thrilled to announce the achievement of DDR5-7000 CL40-40-40-76 32GB 2x16GB extreme speed, passing the Memtest stability test. 7000MTs memory...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com


In stock in 2023.


----------



## 2500k_2

sugi0lover said:


> *DDR5-7000 CL40-40-40-76 32GB (2x16GB) *announced~ Wow~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.SKILL Showcases DDR5-7000 CL40 Extreme Speed Memory - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.
> 
> 
> 2 November 2021 – G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd., the world’s leading manufacturer of extreme performance memory and gaming peripherals, is thrilled to announce the achievement of DDR5-7000 CL40-40-40-76 32GB 2x16GB extreme speed, passing the Memtest stability test. 7000MTs memory...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gskill.com


this is a new marketing strategy gskill / until the "fastest kit" arrives, they will have time to release even faster xmp / And your purchase will become outdated without having time to get into your hands. And you will have to buy and buy again


----------



## Shawnb99

Thanh Nguyen said:


> In stock in 2023.


For like 5 seconds


----------



## gecko991

Yep.


----------



## iraff1

ended up cancelling my alderlake order, got cold feet around all the fuzz around the ddr5 modules, since the modules available at launch will be trash ill rather wait and see if this platform is good and buy stuff once there are ddr5 modules available that are not trash.


----------



## phillyman36

iraff1 said:


> ended up cancelling my alderlake order, got cold feet around all the fuzz around the ddr5 modules, since the modules available at launch will be trash ill rather wait and see if this platform is good and buy stuff once there are ddr5 modules available that are not trash.


Hell if you wait some things may even be a little cheaper dependent upon when you buy them and you'll have more options. Me on the other hand I need to build a pc and get rid of my Amd stuff. No need in me buying a 11900k/10850k since those are sort of dead end streets if you know what i mean. I have very little options.


----------



## IronAge

Z690 Apex availability will be really low, no mission eazy to get one when you have to buy from an etailer in Europe, after the first wave of 12900K supplies will be low too.


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> Z690 Apex availability will be really low, no mission eazy to get one when you have to buy from an etailer in Europe, after the first wave of 12900K supplies will be low too.


when numbers come out. 
thats when its a cash grab scalping time


----------



## acoustic

IronAge said:


> Z690 Apex availability will be really low, no mission eazy to get one when you have to buy from an etailer in Europe, after the first wave of 12900K supplies will be low too.


Hoping I'll be able to walk into Microcenter to grab one .. if I make the jump.


----------



## IronAge

cstkl1 said:


> when numbers come out.
> thats when its a cash grab scalping time


Alternate.de - one of the bigger Etailers for pc parts in germany - gets 20 Apex, and has four times pre-orders, next delivery early to mid december.

12900K BOXED already sold out at some Etailers.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

So tomorrow is the day right? Cant even pre order any DDR5 yet. They’re out of stock everywhere, only Crucial 4800 is availble on Amazon.


----------



## carlhil2

Thanh Nguyen said:


> So tomorrow is the day right? Cant even pre order any DDR5 yet. They’re out of stock everywhere, only Crucial 4800 is availble on Amazon.


That's what I pre-ordered. can always upgrade ram later... $200 for 32GB is WAY cheaper than I paid for 32GB of DDR4 at 2400mhz when it first came out..


----------



## gtz

carlhil2 said:


> That's what I pre-ordered. can always upgrade ram later... $200 for 32GB is WAY cheaper than I paid for 32GB of DDR4 at 2400mhz when it first came out..


Shoot I paid 204 for a 4X4GB 2400 kit when X99 launched. These ram prices aren't bad, however the boards are. Can't believe the prices for the higher end boards. Even my Rampage VI Extreme Encore (which looks very well built) was never 1k.


----------



## carlhil2

gtz said:


> Shoot I paid 204 for a 4X4GB 2400 kit when X99 launched. These ram prices aren't bad, however the boards are. Can't believe the prices for the higher end boards. Even my Rampage VI Extreme Encore (which looks very well built) was never 1k.


 In my wife's RL build now. LOL...


----------



## gtz

carlhil2 said:


> In my wife's RL build now. LOL...
> View attachment 2530916


Correction, it was a 2133 kit I purchased 9/6/14.

But overclocked to 2666 with same timings.


----------



## 2500k_2

8300 cl52 GigabUt


----------



## carlhil2




----------



## MoW

Let the countdown begins.
Alder Lake will create another history for Intel. 
Hesitancy to buy now will lead to regrets in coming days.


----------



## cstkl1

carlhil2 said:


> View attachment 2530919


ures?
rip 5900x


----------



## carlhil2

cstkl1 said:


> ures?
> rip 5900x


Nah, from Twitter. I am getting the 12900k hopefully from MC tomorrow. have all other parts pre-ordered..


----------



## Groove2013

IronAge said:


> after the first wave of 12900K supplies will be low too.





MoW said:


> Hesitancy to buy now will lead to regrets in coming days.


It's like with Rocket Lake, where all the good chips were available only at the beginning and then, mostly bad quality chips, since the good ones were used for Alder Lake based Xeons that came out few months later.


----------



## 2500k_2




----------



## gtz

carlhil2 said:


> View attachment 2530919


Gives my 9940X a run for its money in multi core in CB20, though single thread performance will surely demolish me.










Though mine does it at 375w, running a all core OC of 4.95.

Edit:

Looks like 12700Ks are still available for pre order. Should make great chips, chances are I will order one to replace my secondary Ryzen rig to do testing with. Hopefully Intel will shed some info on the HEDT line soon.


----------



## carlhil2

gtz said:


> Gives my 9940X a run for its money in multi core in CB20, though single thread performance will surely demolish me.
> 
> View attachment 2530923
> 
> 
> Though mine does it at 375w, running a all core OC of 4.95.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Looks like 12700Ks are still available for pre order. Should make great chips, chances are I will order one to replace my secondary Ryzen rig to do testing with. Hopefully Intel will shed some info on the HEDT line soon.


 both my 7960x and 10980xe about to get beat..


----------



## cstkl1

carlhil2 said:


> both my 7960x and 10980xe about to get beat..
> View attachment 2530933
> View attachment 2530934


this cpu for gaming btw. not really meant to compete on hedt. cb etc just coincidentally strong.


----------



## carlhil2

cstkl1 said:


> this cpu for gaming btw. not really meant to compete on hedt. cb etc just coincidentally strong.


True...


----------



## roooo

After spending too much time with early RKL I swore I would not adopt ADL this soon, but that was until one hour ago. Just placed orders on 12900k, Hero & Apex as well as Kingston Fury 5200C40. Damn...


----------



## carlhil2

roooo said:


> After spending too much time with early RKL I swore I would not adopt ADL this soon, but that was until one hour ago. Just placed orders on 12900k, Hero & Apex as well as Kingston Fury 5200C40. Damn...


I said I would never go mainstream again, yet, here I am...


----------



## chibi

roooo said:


> After spending too much time with early RKL I swore I would not adopt ADL this soon, but that was until one hour ago. Just placed orders on 12900k, Hero & Apex as well as Kingston Fury 5200C40. Damn...


Bro you going hard with Hero + Apex!! I love it haha


----------



## gtz

cstkl1 said:


> this cpu for gaming btw. not really meant to compete on hedt. cb etc just coincidentally strong.


Very strong. 

I can only imagine what a 16 P core chip can do. 

This kinda feels like the a Sandy moment all over again. But this time AMD is also in the race. If it weren't for the outrages GPU shortages this would be great time for custom PCs.


----------



## acoustic

2500k_2 said:


> View attachment 2530920


Holy ****!


----------



## carlhil2

gtz said:


> Very strong.
> 
> I can only imagine what a 16 P core chip can do.
> 
> This kinda feels like the a Sandy moment all over again. But this time AMD is also in the race. If it weren't for the outrages GPU shortages this would be great time for custom PCs.


Waiting on SPR-X patiently...


----------



## acoustic

carlhil2 said:


> Waiting on SPR-X patiently...


Judging by Z690 prices, I'm scared at what ASUS will put the Rampage Extreme at lol


----------



## roooo

chibi said:


> Bro you going hard with Hero + Apex!! I love it haha


Gonna stack 'em to double bandwidth! Nope seriously - this was just for redundancy hoping that at least one will be available soon.


----------



## roooo

carlhil2 said:


> I said I would never go mainstream again, yet, here I am...


Sometimes when hauling 10+ kg worth of last-century analogue camera gear out in the forests I tend to question if this really is the right strategy....


----------



## gtz

acoustic said:


> Judging by Z690 prices, I'm scared at what ASUS will put the Rampage Extreme at lol


No joke

750 for the prime, 900 prime deluxe, 1k strix, 1.5k apex, 2k rampage.


----------



## acoustic

gtz said:


> No joke
> 
> 750 for the prime, 900 prime deluxe, 1k strix, 1.5k apex, 2k rampage.


I'll run this 10900K until it melts if that's gonna be the case, LOL.


----------



## 2500k_2

maybe not everyone here is maximalists  and you will like 12600k (all the more it is easier to cool it with an air cooler)


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> maybe not everyone here is maximalists  and you will like 12600k (all the more it is easier to cool it with an air cooler)
> View attachment 2530935


who is this that leaking?


----------



## carlhil2

Deleted. already posted by someone else. my bad...


----------



## carlhil2

cstkl1 said:


> who is this that leaking?





https://twitter.com/TweakPC


----------



## carlhil2

Apparently, TweakPC ran those on W10...


----------



## Falkentyne

Prime95 requires 30.7 beta 7 for adl...



https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=27180


----------



## Daniel M

Amazon just let me know my Z690 Hero is arriving Friday 11/5 instead of Monday 11/8!

Hoping the rest arrives for a weekend project.


----------



## acoustic

Falkentyne said:


> Prime95 requires 30.7 beta 7 for adl...
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=27180


Are you hopping on the ADL train?


----------



## MoeBen

Well .... better go grab me a 12900K to delid


----------



## carlhil2

Daniel M said:


> Amazon just let me know my Z690 Hero is arriving Friday 11/5 instead of Monday 11/8!
> 
> Hoping the rest arrives for a weekend project.


Hopefully mine is the same. . EDIT: says shipped today...


----------



## AngryLobster

My Hero shipped from Amazon this morning and says "Delivery appointment scheduled"


----------



## carlhil2

I hope MC has ram available tomorrow...


----------



## carlhil2

W11 this time with ST..


----------



## Carillo

IronAge said:


> Alternate.de - one of the bigger Etailers for pc parts in germany - gets 20 Apex, and has four times pre-orders, next delivery early to mid december.
> 
> 12900K BOXED already sold out at some Etailers.


Staus from Norway :

Proshop Norway is the only retailer(as far as i can see) that got 10 Apex... I’m unfortunately not one of the lucky ones. 12900K´s are mostly sold out.. couple of tray cpu´s left


----------



## Daniel M

carlhil2 said:


> I hope MC has ram available tomorrow...


Hopefully. I was finally able to order a set of crucial 4800 by chance from Newegg as a backup but I'd rather get a set of 5200+.


----------



## gtz

carlhil2 said:


> W11 this time with ST..
> View attachment 2530945


I wanted to see that single core score, thanks for posting.


----------



## carlhil2

That cr23 ST score is about 47% faster than SKL at same clock. the cr20 though looks low..


----------



## roooo

Carillo said:


> Staus from Norway :
> 
> Proshop Norway is the only retailer(as far as i can see) that got 10 Apex... I’m unfortunately not one of the lucky ones. 12900K´s are mostly sold out.. couple of tray cpu´s left


My boxed 12900K ordered at Alternate Germany has allegedly shipped shortly after I ordered it today.


----------



## carlhil2

Overclockers Uk..


----------



## acoustic

I'm just getting home from my mission so I may take a ride out to St. David's Microcenter tomorrow morning to check out the madness and grab a 12900K, board and RAM depending on what they have.

I wonder if there will be stupid lines for a CPU though..


----------



## carlhil2

acoustic said:


> I'm just getting home from my mission so I may take a ride out to St. David's Microcenter tomorrow morning to check out the madness and grab a 12900K, board and RAM depending on what they have.
> 
> I wonder if there will be stupid lines for a CPU though..


Man, I hope not. I am going to head over from work...


----------



## acoustic

carlhil2 said:


> Man, I hope not. I am going to head over from work...


I believe there were lines for the AMD 5000 series so I'm not expecting any different.


----------



## acoustic

carlhil2 said:


> Man, I hope not. I am going to head over from work...


If you are planning on going to the St. David's, PA location, and I do end up going tomorrow morning, I'll let you know what the stock looks like. Just shoot me a PM.


----------



## carlhil2

acoustic said:


> If you are planning on going to the St. David's, PA location, and I do end up going tomorrow morning, I'll let you know what the stock looks like. Just shoot me a PM.


Thanks for the offer but I will be going across the bridge to the Cambridge Ma MC. my boss is also my uncle so I should be able to work something out. LOL..


----------



## acoustic

carlhil2 said:


> Thanks for the offer but I will be going across the bridge to the Cambridge Ma MC...


Good luck!!


----------



## carlhil2

acoustic said:


> Good luck!!


Did you see my edit? I should be able to head over at 9...


----------



## acoustic

carlhil2 said:


> Did you see my edit? I should be able to head over at 9...


Ah, just did.

Nice man! I hope you get one. I will purchase if I can grab an APEX (no clue if MC will have stock day1) and good RAM. If not, not worried since I'll be gone for three months anyway very shortly, so will make the wait for HEDT easier.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Pre ordered Apex at Newegg, 1 12900k at Newegg and 1 at Central Computer but no Gskill ram yet.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Bought a ton of Intel stock. Post lots of benchmarks tomorrow!


----------



## acoustic

0451 said:


> Bought a ton of Intel stock. Post lots of benchmarks tomorrow!


I didn't buy a ton but I did buy some. I'm already up a $1 per share. BIG MONEY! Lol


----------



## geriatricpollywog

acoustic said:


> I didn't buy a ton but I did buy some. I'm already up a $1 per share. BIG MONEY! Lol


Lol same, $1 profit. It’s bottomed out so might as well pick some up before the Wall Street Bets Redditors figure it out and go crazy. If it does well, I’ll sell some and upgrade. It not, I’m warm and cozy with my 11th gen. Someone just posted a Cinebench result with the 12600K and it matched both the single and multicore score of a 5.3ghz 11900K. Hopefully the reviews are good tomorrow and Alder Lake flys off the shelf. I noticed a lot of people are switching from AMD. This is going to be a good launch.


----------



## 12700KF

acoustic said:


> I didn't buy a ton but I did buy some. I'm already up a $1 per share. BIG MONEY! Lol


I bought one lol. 12700KF. And I seriously hope for an above average bin. The last time when I bought one 10700K at the 1st day, it had SP 82 and was nicely overclockable.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

12700KF said:


> I bought one lol. 12700KF. And I seriously hope for an above average bin. The last time when I bought one 10700K at the 1st day, it had SP 82 and was nicely overclockable.


I bought one 10700k and it was SP110 and stable at 5.4 / benchable at 5.5. You can get lucky.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

I dont expect Alder Lake can clock high. Its all about Ram Oc now.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

What time I can publish some crazy 12900k clocks and settings? LOL... 

What time is it at Pacific time now? LOL


----------



## cstkl1

lol. u guys funny. 8 hrs. nobody noticed it.


----------



## cstkl1

Thanh Nguyen said:


> I dont expect Alder Lake can clock high. Its all about Ram Oc now.


it clocks like cml. so its high.


----------



## chibi

RobertoSampaio said:


> What time I can publish some crazy 12900k clocks and settings? LOL...
> 
> What time is it at Pacific time now? LOL


Are you some tech reviewer that gets supply from the hardware vendors themselves? Or did you just buy off the shelf from retailers?

If purchased from retailer, I wouldn't give a second thought and just post early results. But that's just me, haha.


----------



## cstkl1

chibi said:


> Are you some tech reviewer that gets supply from the hardware vendors themselves? Or did you just buy off the shelf from retailers?
> 
> If purchased from retailer, I wouldn't give a second thought and just post early results. But that's just me, haha.


u guys still havent noticed it?
8 hrs and counting. who will find it.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

My friend can do this with his 4800 kit.


----------



## cstkl1

Thanh Nguyen said:


> My friend can do this with his 4800 kit.
> View attachment 2530965


decent. focus on 2nd/third.

the timings all whack

hint. 9 hrs now. nobody noticed the game benchmark.


----------



## Talon2016

cstkl1 said:


> decent. focus on 2nd/third.
> 
> the timings all whack
> 
> hint. 9 hrs now. nobody noticed the game benchmark.


Hmm?


----------



## cstkl1

Talon2016 said:


> Hmm?


its right here.

btw this was on 6400c36

last hint, i am the TS of this thread so....


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Does anyone give 56x for light load?
54x effective clock?


----------



## cstkl1

RobertoSampaio said:


> Does anyone give 56x for light load?
> 54x effective clock?
> 
> View attachment 2530969


lol. and some still think adl a "bad ocer"


----------



## 12700KF

1st page Horizon, SOTR and more :O


----------



## cstkl1

12700KF said:


> 1st page Horizon :O


4 games. 
day 1 adl good no. with only c36 6400. 

not even my c30 or c28.. 
or later u will see ppl doing on 6600-6666 1T


----------



## AngryLobster

12700KF said:


> 1st page Horizon, SOTR and more :O


Can anyone share how those #'s compare to 11900K or 5900/5950x?


----------



## 12700KF

cstkl1 said:


> 4 games.
> day 1 adl good no. with only c36 6400.
> 
> not even my c30 or c28..
> or later u will see ppl doing on 6600-6666 1T


Yes! This is gonna be madness, the performance is there!
Thank you


----------



## RobertoSampaio

cstkl1 said:


> lol. and some still think adl a "bad ocer"


This is my 10900k.....


----------



## cstkl1

RobertoSampaio said:


> This is my 10900k.....


haha. i didnt even see properly. post lar ure crazy one.


----------



## sniperpowa

Just got me email from newegg my Apex is delayed now yay!


----------



## RobertoSampaio

cstkl1 said:


> haha. i didnt even see properly. post lar ure crazy one.


If it was my old 12900k sp101, i think would be 57000MHz


----------



## Antsu

Yep. No estimate on delivery of Apex, and the only RAM "available" are 5200Mhz C40 1.25V kits that arrive on the 8th to the retailer... Atleast I can get a CPU... 

Benchmarks looking promising, excited to get this setup running.


----------



## cstkl1

it will be insanely high with 6600-6666 c28/c30


----------



## ViTosS

cstkl1 said:


> it will be insanely high with 6600-6666 c28/c30


There are a lot of new settings into RAM OC in BIOS for DDR5 or all pretty much the same of DDR4?


----------



## cstkl1

ViTosS said:


> There are a lot of new settings into RAM OC in BIOS for DDR5 or all pretty much the same of DDR4?


more options. it be funny watching the skew/odt "theorist" on ddr5.


----------



## 1devomer

cstkl1 said:


> more options. it be funny watching the skew/odt "theorist" on ddr5.


I guess that the server and datacenter dudes are happy, for what i got, i found nothing about consumer oriented specs, when looking at the new DDR5.
Not a surprise, i guess, but i hope to be proved wrong down the line.

Memory have become an accessory part in computers, cache is the real deal in nowadays silicon age.


----------



## HyperMatrix

cstkl1 said:


> it will be insanely high with 6600-6666 c28/c30


I will concede that the latency on that 5545MHz CL34 benchmark was better than I had expected. I've sent an email requesting to cancel my DDR4 board preorder and will be joining you on the DDR5 side.


----------



## cstkl1

HyperMatrix said:


> I will concede that the latency on that 5545MHz CL34 benchmark was better than I had expected. I've sent an email requesting to cancel my DDR4 board preorder and will be joining you on the DDR5 side.


right choice. 

later u will see @RobertoSampaio and @Falkentyne madness packed guide on cpu part.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Apex board delayed. What would be a good DDR5 kit for OC?


----------



## dante`afk

After googling today for an apex, I found a store on a couple of pages on the back and got lucky ordering one.

Schedule to be delivered on Tuesday.
12900k scheduled for tomorrow and 2 more next week
Corsair 5200 CL38 arrived today.

Ultimately I'll switch to higher binned G.skill ram once that is available.


----------



## dante`afk

SoldierRBT said:


> Apex board delayed. What would be a good DDR5 kit for OC?


What I did: get whatever is available for now and wait for G.Skill with samsung chips for OC to be available.


----------



## clackersx

I changed my mind and cancelled my DDR4 board, opted for a DDR5 budget/midrange board (if you can call it that).
I prefer asus boards and i feel asus has more community support/tips/forums, i am not sure how to describe and put into words.
BUT, I went with an MSI Z690 Force. Hopefully not a mistake. Board shipped this morning from NZ, 12900KF should be sent out tomorrow. Cant find any DDR5 anywhere, i hope after NDA more options become available, havent seen any type of gskill listed anywhere in AUS so i hope i can snap something as soon as they list.


----------



## Falkentyne

RobertoSampaio said:


> If it was my old 12900k sp101, i think would be 57000MHz


I know full well what you did there Mister "SP 101"


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

cstkl1 said:


> more options. it be funny watching the skew/odt "theorist" on ddr5.


I know this guy..lmao..dang just a little more wait..

edit: OOF!! MSI DDR4 boards are on sale already..and prices are crappy ones for the Carbon (450$ rip)..just OOF..


----------



## Nizzen

Status: 
Apex and 1/3 of 12900k cpu's sendt. Already got the memory. Dominator 5200 2x16. 

G.skill 5600 preordered


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> more options. it be funny watching the skew/odt "theorist" on ddr5.


if there is no setting RTT_NOM_WR, RTT_NOM_RD, tCCD_l_WR, tCCD_l_wr2, tdllk will be disappointed


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> if there is no setting RTT_NOM_WR, RTT_NOM_RD, tCCD_l_WR, tCCD_l_wr2, tdllk will be disappointed


odt, bless whoever can figure this out. its not 3 odt. theres like 6-8 on each imc or channel. cant remember left it auto

my advice and also rog fae will tell u
just tune second/third timings for initially to get the feel of ddr5 .

then only tcl/twcl

rtl etc.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

cstkl1 said:


> decent. focus on 2nd/third.
> 
> the timings all whack
> 
> hint. 9 hrs now. nobody noticed the game benchmark.


15-20% higher as my CML SOTR do, if it is daily setting, for first DDR5 it's really great.
That can really called next gen.


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


>


Let the games begin 🤩


----------



## Falkentyne

I just bought SOTTR definitive edition + extras on Steam for $13. Couldn't handle dealing with the Epic version for free on Amazon Prime.


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

why do you only test on SOTTR game?? I don't really get it..its kinda old now (though the recent update) there are other DX12 games out there (newer) that can be used as well.. (if its just gonna be a DX12 shoot out)


----------



## roooo

cstkl1 said:


> (...)


Thanks for the results!
This might be a bit early to judge, but as with your Vermintide results I saw other gaming benchmarks where 0.1% was significantly lower for ADL compared to RKL. If this holds, what do you think could be a reason? Mem latency? E-Cores interfering? In general - do you expect E-cores to be detrimental for maximum gaming performance?


----------



## SneakySloth

LTT posted their review early by mistake.



http://imgur.com/a/r9lOl2L


Images aren't mine. Credit to RZeroXX from r/intel


----------



## geriatricpollywog

SneakySloth said:


> LTT posted their review early by mistake.
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/r9lOl2L
> 
> 
> Images aren't mine. Credit to RZeroXX from r/intel


Those lows!


----------



## roooo

In case those ones have not been spotted yet - though already released on 3 November...


----------



## Nizzen

roooo said:


> In case those ones have not been spotted yet - though already released on 3 November...


Fake videoes....


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> Fake videoes....


Are they?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

roooo said:


> Are they?


Benchmark videos are fake unless a person is speaking to the camera and there’s hardware in the background.


----------



## roooo

This might be a real review:



https://pcper.com/2021/11/intel-core-i9-12900k-powered-falcon-northwest-talon-review/


----------



## roooo

0451 said:


> Benchmark videos are fake unless a person is speaking to the camera and there’s hardware in the background.


K...I had audio off...


----------



## Betroz

SneakySloth said:


> LTT posted their review early by mistake.


It looks like the 12600K is the most sensible option for gamers. The 12900K is of course faster, but it has a much higher power draw aswell, and higher temps. The temps that the 12900K hit during the Blender Gooseberry benchmark was disturbingly high...but thankfully temps during gaming is fine though. I guess a 360mm AIO is a good idea for a 12900K as a minimum.


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

Betroz said:


> but it has a much higher power draw aswell


who saves power on a desktop?? 🤣 also we're on OCN.. 🤣 (if the sole reason is the higher heat, then I am sorry I do not have heating issues nor do I foresee having 1)


----------



## nikolaus85

kairi_zeroblade said:


> who saves power on a desktop??  also we're on OCN..


all the trolls amd fanboys care about power saving on pc

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

nikolaus85 said:


> all the trolls amd fanboys care about power saving on pc
> 
> Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


prejudice?? I own both platforms..sorry to say and break your expectations that I am a fanboi of some sort..I am also buying Alder Lake FYI..I don't care about power consumption (who does anyway on a desktop??, I even feed my 5900x 210W just to get it running higher frequencies for what I would expect)..me wants those benchmark scores and those giggle hertz..


----------



## nikolaus85

kairi_zeroblade said:


> prejudice?? I own both platforms..sorry to say and break your expectations that I am a fanboi of some sort..I am also buying Alder Lake FYI..I don't care about power consumption (who does anyway on a desktop??, I even feed my 5900x 210W just to get it running higher frequencies for what I would expect)..me wants those benchmark scores and those giggle hertz..


in fact i was not talking about you....i do agree with you

Inviato dal mio RMX1971 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## Betroz

kairi_zeroblade said:


> who saves power on a desktop?


That was not my point either. Performance per watt tells us a lot about how efficient Alder Lake is. Not everyone have a custom loop or chilled water you know...


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Betroz said:


> Not everyone have a custom loop or chilled water you know...


Nobody's perfect.


----------



## iraff1

not gonna be good pr for intel releasing a chip that eats energy meanwhile they virtue signal about how efficient they are hehe

the 12600K looks like a good deal though, budget gamers will be happy!


----------



## phillyman36

Even though I got emails saying my cpu and mobo pre order was delayed they Newegg just charged me for both of them. The Asus z690 Hero was charge around 3am EST and the 12900k was charged around 4am. both EST shipping is today which means I will have tomorrow.

I'm still going to go to Microcenter to look around since I'm off.


----------



## mongoled

iraff1 said:


> not gonna be good pr for intel releasing a chip that eats energy meanwhile they virtue signal about how efficient they are hehe
> 
> the 12600K looks like a good deal though, budget gamers will be happy!


There are budget motherboards ????

What would "budget" be in Intel 12xxx series be ?

400 $$ 

??


----------



## iraff1

mongoled said:


> There are budget motherboards ????
> 
> What would "budget" be in Intel 12xxx series be ?
> 
> 400 $$
> 
> ??


You're right, didn't think about the boards costing so much this time around


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

Betroz said:


> That was not my point either. Performance per watt tells us a lot about how efficient Alder Lake is. Not everyone have a custom loop or chilled water you know...


its 10nm...what would you expect from a power consumption standpoint vs what's the latest trend (7nm) with the huge difference in fabrication and architecture you'd really don't want to spill out the term "power consumption" I am just glad Intel (finally) catches up and gives competition back..its a win win for us consumers if the other camp lowers prices and everything else goes down as well..


----------



## napata

On the budget topic, when is B660 supposed to release? Still this year or early 2022?



kairi_zeroblade said:


> its 10nm...what would you expect from a power consumption standpoint vs what's the latest trend (7nm) with the huge difference in fabrication and architecture you'd really don't want to spill out the term "power consumption" I am just glad Intel (finally) catches up and gives competition back..its a win win for us consumers if the other camp lowers prices and everything else goes down as well..


It's Intel 7 and it's named that way as it's supposted to be on par with TSMC's 7nm node.


----------



## cstkl1

10 odt per imc. 

gambate 💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪💪


----------



## cstkl1

skews values from 0-255
so again 
gambate


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> Thanks for the results!
> This might be a bit early to judge, but as with your Vermintide results I saw other gaming benchmarks where 0.1% was significantly lower for ADL compared to RKL. If this holds, what do you think could be a reason? Mem latency? E-Cores interfering? In general - do you expect E-cores to be detrimental for maximum gaming performance?


rkl cache needs cstate off and was win 10

whats impressive on adl is power during gaming, idle. 

theres other stuff which u can learn more from @Falkentyne guide.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Ops....


----------



## jeiselramos

cstkl1 said:


>


F1 2020 or 2021? 

Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## cstkl1

jeiselramos said:


> F1 2020 or 2021?
> 
> Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


2020.


----------



## 2500k_2

ddr4 3600 16 16 gear 1 vs ddr5 4800 40 40 gear 2








SoTR / GPU boung 6800xt


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

napata said:


> It's Intel 7 and it's named that way as it's supposted to be on par with TSMC's 7nm node.


since when did 10 = 7?? on par with what?? they're all different..I wouldn't really call it an Intel propaganda to stir things up but its all clear that its not on par with TSMC 7nm..


----------



## IronAge

IronAge said:


> Alternate.de - one of the bigger Etailers for pc parts in germany - gets 20 Apex, and has four times pre-orders, next delivery early to mid december.


Update on that: instead of 20 Apex they got 5 - no new ETA - Apex is the next scalping object.


----------



## jeiselramos

Around 30% more than 10900k 5.2 4533C16

Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## napata

kairi_zeroblade said:


> since when did 10 = 7?? on par with what?? they're all different..I wouldn't really call it an Intel propaganda to stir things up buts all clear that its not on par with TSMC 7nm..


10 = 7 because 7 isn't 7. Simple, right? All node names are just marketing nowadays. Intel's naming was the closest to reality but it's bad marketing when everyone fakes their naming for marketing and you don't so Intel said "screw it we'll follow the rest". Intel 7 has the same density as TSMC's 7nm so it's on par. That's why it's called Intel 7.


----------



## weleh

kairi_zeroblade said:


> who saves power on a desktop?? 🤣 also we're on OCN.. 🤣 (if the sole reason is the higher heat, then I am sorry I do not have heating issues nor do I foresee having 1)


What do you do for a living? Do you work with a computer or do you just game?

If you're a coder or a designer/engineer who compiles a ****ton of code or renders a bunch of ****, having to deal with a 240W 24/7 CPU isn't fun at all.
You need to broaden your use case my dude, efficiency is obviously a very important metric for everyone that actually does work with these CPUs for a living.


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

weleh said:


> What do you do for a living? Do you work with a computer or do you just game?


I use the PC for a living and gaming..hahaha



weleh said:


> If you're a coder or a designer/engineer who compiles a **ton of code or renders a bunch of **, having to deal with a 240W 24/7 CPU isn't fun at all.
> You need to broaden your use case my dude, efficiency is obviously a very important metric for everyone that actually does work with these CPUs for a living.


I am a prgrammer, I do Matlab works (right now)..and for what I do *Time *is rather important than saving power, that is why I go all out, its better for me to finish the computations faster and earlier than me trying to save some juice and do the work 3x longer..

Efficiency won't be synonymous to better performance my dude..you either balance both or sacrifice 1 for what you really want..

sorry my dude, peace out dude..



napata said:


> 10 = 7 because 7 isn't 7. Simple, right? All node names are just marketing nowadays. Intel's naming was the closest to reality but it's bad marketing when everyone fakes their naming for marketing and you don't so Intel said "screw it we'll follow the rest". Intel 7 has the same density as TSMC's 7nm so it's on par. That's why it's called Intel 7.


----------



## 1devomer

kairi_zeroblade said:


> I use the PC for a living and gaming..hahaha
> 
> 
> 
> I am a prgrammer, I do Matlab works (right now)..and for what I do *Time *is rather important than saving power, that is why I go all out, its better for me to finish the computations faster and earlier than me trying to save some juice and do the work 3x longer..


Because you work alone maybe, and you are computer knowledgeable?
I have worked in companies where there are rooms full of workstation, not the same i guess.


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

1devomer said:


> Because you work alone maybe?
> I have worked in companies where there are rooms full of workstation, not the same i guess.


yep working from home sux..


----------



## weleh

1devomer said:


> Because you work alone maybe, and you are computer knowledgeable?
> I have worked in companies where there are rooms full of workstation, not the same i guess.


Yap, some people are so far away from reality it's insane.
Then they make comments like the ones we see...

People be like "It doesn't affect me so it must not exist"


----------



## 1devomer

kairi_zeroblade said:


> yep working from home sux..


Being unemployed sux even more, but thank you for letting us know that, you have the privilege to work at home!


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

oh..never thought I'd be the prick here..lol..though I really never ran anything so low/conservative on a Desktop..

My apologies..lets just not derail the thread with all my rambling about power consumption..(3rd world country problems, with a citizen like me in it)


----------



## robertr1

kairi_zeroblade said:


> why do you only test on SOTTR game?? I don't really get it..its kinda old now (though the recent update) there are other DX12 games out there (newer) that can be used as well.. (if its just gonna be a DX12 shoot out)


Scales with just about everything so it's well optimized from that standpoint to see if diff tunes are having a positive impact.


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

robertr1 said:


> Scales with just about everything so it's well optimized from that standpoint to see if diff tunes are having a positive impact.


ok thanks for the brief explanation..gonna grab that one as well and just see the benchmark..


----------



## weleh

Just to be clear, the Horizon Zero Dawn benchmark is using lowest render scale possible right?
Judging by GPU numbers posted, this is 99,99% the case.

Edit: And SOTR too, should disclose this when posting benchmarks really...

Because if you don't disclose that, people comparing it to their own testing will see very skewed results and a much bigger difference than reality.


----------



## carlhil2

Am I the only one who doesn't put much stock in review sites that use above-spec ram in supposedly "stock vs stock" reviews?


----------



## cstkl1

carlhil2 said:


> Am I the only one who doesn't put much stock in review sites that use above-spec ram in supposedly "stock vs stock" reviews?


3200c20-20-20 vs 4800 c40

stock vs stock.


----------



## rluker5

roooo said:


> Are they?


All have the same gpu bottleneck. If your gpu is 99%, that is all of the frames you are going to get, regardless of your cpu. With gpu bottlenecked settings the different cpu were getting different fps, so not accurate.


----------



## cstkl1

MZ690 - Apex
Bios - 0096
Gskill 2x16gb @ 6400 C30-37-37-28 1T trfc 280 @1.5v
MC - 1.35v
SA - 0.85v

12900KF - SP89 - STOCK








​
12900KF - SP89 - P Core 52|50








​


----------



## RobertoSampaio

*Thanks:*

My thanks to ASUS and the entire FAE TEAM!
Special thanks to SHAMINO for all the support and for the invitation that allowed me to join the ROG MAXIMUS test team.
My sincere thanks to Falkentyne and Cstkl1 for their help during testing.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some results with high frequencies and high effective clocks.

MB: ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME
CPU: 12900K (ES) - SP-91
AIO: AF-II - 420mm


Core Configuration:

1P core - 5800MHz,
2P core - 5700MHz,
3P core - 5700MHz,
4P core - 5500MHz,
5P core - 5500MHz,
6P core - 5300MHz,
7P core - 5300MHz,
8P core - 5300MHz.

1E core - 4300MHz
2E core - 4300MHz
3E core - 4200MHZ
4E core - 4200MHz
5E core - 4100MHz
6E core - 4100MHz
7E core - 4000MHz
8E core - 4000MHz

Full Load P51x/E40x/R36x - [email protected] - 202W - Temp - 80sC

LLC#1
AC_LL = 0.6
DC_LL = 1.7
VmaxStress = Enable
Voltage Optimization = Enable
OCTVB = +2Boost Asus Profile
Adaptive voltage = 1.458v
VF#6 - Negative offset 40mv
VF#7 - Positive offset 20mv
VF#11 - Positive offset 146mv
IA VR Voltage limit = 1500mv
C-states = enable


----------



## roooo

rluker5 said:


> All have the same gpu bottleneck. If your gpu is 99%, that is all of the frames you are going to get, regardless of your cpu. With gpu bottlenecked settings the different cpu were getting different fps, so not accurate.


True, I was a bit superficial thus didn't even look at GPU load...


----------



## 1devomer

RobertoSampaio said:


> Full Load P51x/E40x/R36x - [email protected] - 202W - Temp - 80sC


What does that mean, what is the load you pushed through?
Is it P95 and synthetic bench or a gaming bench, i don't get it sorry?


----------



## cstkl1

1devomer said:


> What does that mean, what is the load you pushed through?
> Is it P95 and synthetic bench or a gaming bench, i don't get it sorry?


octvb


----------



## 1devomer

cstkl1 said:


> octvb


The cpu is driven by the Thermal Velocity boost, right?
But i wanted to know what kind of load he put on, to get these effective clocks.

We are still getting the monitoring bug of 0°C as minimum T°?


----------



## cstkl1

1devomer said:


> The cpu is driven by the Thermal Velocity boost, right?
> But i wanted to know what kind of load he put on, to get these effective clocks.


hold on for @Falkentyne guide.. a lot of roberto did also is explained there


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I think 0C is not a "bug"...
It happens when the core is parked.

It's not a synthetic load... 
But you can benchmark with any load...
The temps in OCTVB will "tell" the CPU if it is free to run the frequency.


----------



## 1devomer

RobertoSampaio said:


> I think 0C is not a "bug"...
> It happens when the core is parked.


I don't think that because a core is being parked, he should sit at 0°.
It should sit at the T° of the nearby silicon instead.

Same thing with the minimum core load, i want to know how the load is shared and what are the most/less core used.

And again sorry for the ignorance about TVB and so on, i disable everything as soon i get my hand on things.
But i still didn't understand what you used as load to test, care to explain please, what means_ "Full Load P51x/E40x/R36x"?_


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Full load
P cores @ 5100MHz
E cores @ 4000KHz
Ring @ 3600 MHz

This is my full load configuration...
That I think any regular CPU can run...

The OCTVB drives the high frequencies when it's possible.


----------



## domdtxdissar

Cant say i'm super impressed by Alder Lake, hopefully this will get better with time.

*cstkl1 *tuned Alderlake at Cl36 6400MT/s vs tuned Zen3
*Horizon Zero Dawn 1080p favor performance:*

Average fps = 307fps vs 294 fps = Alder lake is 4.4% faster
95% = 223fps vs 212fps = Alder lake is 5.1% faster
99% = 197fps vs 193fps = Alder lake is 2% faster.
 
*Shadow of the tomb raider 1080p lowest:*

Average fps = 361fps vs 353fps = Alder lake is 2.2% faster
95% = 266fps vs 246fps = Alder lake is 8% faster
99% = 247fps vs 246fps = TIE
 
*F1 2020 1080p low:*

Average fps = 528fps vs 490fps = Alder lake is 7.7% faster
 
*Farcry 6 1080p ultra:*

Average fps = 185ps vs 162fps = Alder lake is 14% faster

Given that these are game titles that historically Intel has done very well in, I do not know if Intel should be too happy with Alder Lake, especially if AMD can deliver on the promise of + 15% with v-cache around Christmas season ... Looking forward to see more reveiews in other game titles 

Have also seen some hints that today's "lowend" ddr4 is faster on Alder Lake than the ddr5 memory sold today, as predicted.


----------



## 1devomer

RobertoSampaio said:


> Full load
> P cores @ 5100MHz
> E cores @ 4000KHz
> Ring @ 3600 MHz
> 
> This is my full load configuration...
> That I think any regular CPU can run...
> 
> The OCTVB drives the high frequencies when it's possible.


So you didn't run P95 on it, that what i was asking.
Thank you for the explanations.


----------



## 1devomer

domdtxdissar said:


> [...]especially if AMD can deliver on the promise of + 15% with v-cache *around a 50 bench workloads*[...]


Corrected for you, it's not like you will have 15% more perfs all around with the V-cache.
But rather an isometric mean of 15% better performances, when assessing the performances with the SPEC suite.

Intel did the same, it comes out that ADL perfs are boosted by 19%, isometric mean across multiples workloads, compared to previous generations.
I found it stupid personally and a bit deceptive, from both Intel and AMD, to put it in this way, but i digress i guess.


----------



## iraff1

Do you guys think the AMD "v-cache" cpus will actually give higher single thread performance or just a boost in gaming but maintain the same single thread performance in other workloads?

12900 seems to be sort of what i expected, it is very fast and capable, but to a price of massive heat exaust, as someone who renders a lot of have long 10 hour + sessions where my cpu is at 100% i feel it may be hard to keep this thing cool. Not sure what to make of it, i will wait and see how the alderlake develops and how it holds up a few months from now.

Definitely cool to see that AMD and INTEL is now in a head to head battle for the top spot once more, this is great for all of us, innovation will accellerate!


----------



## iraff1

cstkl1 said:


> MZ690 - Apex
> Bios - 0096
> Gskill 2x16gb @ 6400 C30-37-37-28 1T trfc 280 @1.5v
> MC - 1.35v
> SA - 0.85v
> 
> 12900KF - SP89 - STOCK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 12900KF - SP89 - P Core 52|50
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


Nice! How are the modules holding up heat wise? Is the PMIC on the chip going to be a problem you think?


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## cstkl1

iraff1 said:


> Nice! How are the modules holding up heat wise? Is the PMIC on the chip going to be a problem you think?


i dont know.. i slapped on ram block day 1
👹. @Nizzen ruined me. 🥺


----------



## firewrath9

pog


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

domdtxdissar said:


> Cant say i'm super impressed by Alder Lake, hopefully this will get better with time.
> 
> *cstkl1 *tuned Alderlake at Cl36 6400MT/s vs tuned Zen3
> 
> *Horizon Zero Dawn 1080p favor performance:*
> 
> Average fps = 307fps vs 294 fps = Alder lake is 4.4% faster
> 95% = 223fps vs 212fps = Alder lake is 5.1% faster
> 99% = 197fps vs 193fps = Alder lake is 2% faster.
> 
> *Shadow of the tomb raider 1080p lowest:*
> 
> Average fps = 361fps vs 353fps = Alder lake is 2.2% faster
> 95% = 266fps vs 246fps = Alder lake is 8% faster
> 99% = 247fps vs 246fps = TIE
> 
> *F1 2020 1080p low:*
> 
> Average fps = 528fps vs 490fps = Alder lake is 7.7% faster
> 
> *Farcry 6 1080p ultra:*
> 
> Average fps = 185ps vs 162fps = Alder lake is 14% faster
> 
> Given that these are game titles that historically Intel has done very well in, I do not know if Intel should be too happy with Alder Lake, especially if AMD can deliver on the promise of + 15% with v-cache around Christmas season ... Looking forward to see more reveiews in other game titles
> 
> Have also seen some hints that today's "lowend" ddr4 is faster on Alder Lake than the ddr5 memory sold today, as predicted.


Remember only you and me able to hit 353fps in Shadow of Tomb Raider. Majority of people hit low 310 or so. Meanwhile Alder Lake has a hard wall at 5.1ghz P-core for most people, so now it all comes down to Mem OC. Who has the best kit and best config will come out at the top.


----------



## cstkl1

@safedisk @shamino1978 and the rest all in here.


----------



## cstkl1

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Remember only you and me able to hit 353fps in Shadow of Tomb Raider. Majority of people hit low 310 or so. Meanwhile Alder Lake has a hard wall at 5.1ghz P-core for most people, so now it all comes down to Mem OC. Who has the best kit and best config will come out at the top.


hard wall p 5.1?? where u heard that?


----------



## dante`afk

underwhelming reviews.

Kinda regret buying into the hype 

anyone wants some 12900k and and an apex ?


----------



## weleh

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Remember only you and me able to hit 353fps in Shadow of Tomb Raider. Majority of people hit low 310 or so. Meanwhile Alder Lake has a hard wall at 5.1ghz P-core for most people, so now it all comes down to Mem OC. Who has the best kit and best config will come out at the top.


You mean only you and cstkl ran lowest resolution render scale, SMT off, etc?

Meanwhile everyone else just posting legit benchmarks and being like holy **** my CPU is 100 frames slower...


----------



## cstkl1

few notes.. 
ram xmp now are very very loose 

clear example is 
twr 100 + on ddr5

i am 16 just for comparison 

while ddr4 twr tight vs xmp is like 8-10 vs 24

one good example is to see aida read, write, copy and how far apart they are. 

its fast, efficient, no whea , usb working cpu that delivers in GAMING. if you are pure gaming.. no background etc. just run P core oc. 

not sure the effect of 12700k 25mb vs 12900k 30mb.

good luck guys in making your decision. i am expecting scalping later on.


----------



## roooo

dante`afk said:


> underwhelming reviews.
> 
> Kinda regret buying into the hype
> 
> anyone wants some 12900k and and an apex ?


Hehe...well if there were top-end Z690 DDR4 mainboards, decision would be easy - at least until DDR5 has matured a bit and is widely available.


----------



## Carillo

Ok


----------



## safedisk

*ROG MAXIMUS Z690 Series Bios 0702 UPDATE*

1. Improve system performance

ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO BIOS 0702

ROG MAXIMUS Z690 FORMULA BIOS 0702

ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX BIOS 0702

ROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME BIOS 0702

ROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME GLACIAL BIOS 0702


----------



## cstkl1

3dmark runs - RTX 3080 | 6400C361T

PR 13203








I scored 13 203 in Port Royal


Intel Core i9-12900KF Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 x 1, 32614 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com





TS 20636 (20292|22837)








I scored 20 636 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-12900KF Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 x 1, 32614 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com





FS - 42722 (49602|44669|20290)








I scored 42 722 in Fire Strike


Intel Core i9-12900KF Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 x 1, 32614 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## MoeBen

Got lucky ! … still cant find a decent board and temporary set of ddr5


----------



## gtz

cstkl1 said:


> 3dmark runs - RTX 3080 | 6400C361T
> 
> PR 13203
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 13 203 in Port Royal
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900KF Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 x 1, 32614 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TS 20636 (20292|22837)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 20 636 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900KF Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 x 1, 32614 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FS - 42722 (49602|44669|20290)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 42 722 in Fire Strike
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900KF Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 x 1, 32614 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


23k timespy cpu score, damn.


----------



## maltamonk

Feels like deja vu. Didn't we basically have the same thread with the rocket lake launch?


----------



## roooo

maltamonk said:


> Feels like deja vu. Didn't we basically have the same thread with the rocket lake launch?


Good morning and welcome, it's Groundhog Day!


----------



## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> Got lucky ! … still cant find a decent board and temporary set of ddr5


atleast this time safer to delid.. check debauer vid first ya
think you rip the first retail rlk cpu right...


----------



## MoeBen

cstkl1 said:


> atleast this time safer to delid.. check debauer vid first ya
> think you rip the first retail rlk cpu right...


I had 2 11700k's 1 died but not because of delid .... this time I will wait … gotta try that optimus block and see if it's cool enough (ROFL)


----------



## sniperpowa

cstkl1 said:


> 3dmark runs - RTX 3080 | 6400C361T
> 
> PR 13203
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 13 203 in Port Royal
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900KF Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 x 1, 32614 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TS 20636 (20292|22837)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 20 636 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900KF Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 x 1, 32614 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FS - 42722 (49602|44669|20290)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 42 722 in Fire Strike
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900KF Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 x 1, 32614 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


Wow is that ambient cooling?


----------



## Shawnb99

cstkl1 said:


> atleast this time safer to delid.. check debauer vid first ya
> think you rip the first retail rlk cpu right...


Was the 10xx and 11xx series hard to delid cause the 9900k was surprisingly easy.


----------



## gerardfraser

Cancelled pre orders for me on 12900K,z690,ram, keeping 360 AIO will come in useful soon.Good luck to people with the new gear.


----------



## cstkl1

Shawnb99 said:


> Was the 10xx and 11xx series hard to delid cause the 9900k was surprisingly easy.


only 11 because of the smd..


----------



## cstkl1

sniperpowa said:


> Wow is that ambient cooling?


yes. just plain old wc in humid hot malaysia. all easy to achieve


----------



## MoeBen

dante`afk said:


> underwhelming reviews.
> 
> Kinda regret buying into the hype
> 
> anyone wants some 12900k and and an apex ?


Would gladly take that apex off your hand, sir !


----------



## carlhil2

I don't gaf about none of that noise. I am going to disable e-cores and OC the snot out of the p-cores with it's avx512..


----------



## rluker5

cstkl1 said:


> 3dmark runs - RTX 3080 | 6400C361T
> 
> PR 13203
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 13 203 in Port Royal
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900KF Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 x 1, 32614 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TS 20636 (20292|22837)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 20 636 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900KF Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 x 1, 32614 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FS - 42722 (49602|44669|20290)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 42 722 in Fire Strike
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900KF Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 x 1, 32614 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


But the reviewers are saying overclocking doesn't get you anything. You must have one of those fancy mobos that come with an extra 1150 cpu socket.


----------



## 1devomer

xV Slayer said:


> Wait @cstkl1 hyped up a Intel CPU launch and it was meh? I am surprised. Totally.


Hehehe! 

And you would not have a successful launch, without our preferred XOC dudes being backed by corps, making drama over the sample quality and LN2 max validations.






Advertising and XOC drama, at its finest, still it isn't worse than what AMD have the habit to pull out!

(Laugh in Professional Hardware Reviewers from 20 years ago)


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

and the hype suddenly went downhill huh??..


----------



## 1devomer

kairi_zeroblade said:


> and the hype suddenly went downhill huh??..


To be honest, in my opinion, the hype was never that high.
If you are an Intel customer, you don't need to be hyped so much.
You just switch platform, that's all, nothing to do with the level of hype AMD needs and pulled off.

I switched back from AMD to Intel, and if i had the money and there were cheap Z690 motherboards available (around 150e).
I would have waited and switched too, alongside a 12600K.

Still the overclocked 10600K i got instead, is still far enough, to be able to play very comfortably at 1080p.


----------



## xV Slayer

kairi_zeroblade said:


> and the hype suddenly went downhill huh??..


The hype was all crap as usual from @cstkl1 and @Falkentyne. I was ready to finally move on from my 10900k/9900k for my gaming rigs. Why would I spend $2000 for 5-8% boost in FPS?


----------



## .651955

xV Slayer said:


> The hype was all crap as usual from @cstkl1 and @Falkentyne. I was ready to finally move on from my 10900k/9900k for my gaming rigs. Why would I spend $2000 for 5-8% boost in FPS?


You can still re-sell the 10900k/9900k/9th and 10th generation boards to re-coup a large portion of costs.


----------



## 2500k_2

carlhil2 said:


> I don't gaf about none of that noise. I am going to disable e-cores and OC the snot out of the p-cores with it's avx512..
> View attachment 2531022


disabling small cores will give you only 3-4-5 degrees.


----------



## Talon2016

12900K/Hero combo up and running. 

Got an SP87 on first draw, is this decent? Second chip coming tomorrow.


----------



## Shawnb99

Grabbed a 12900k and hoping for a Asus Extreme but don't like my chances.


----------



## MoeBen

Talon2016 said:


> 12900K/Hero combo up and running.
> 
> Got an SP87 on first draw, is this decent? Second chip coming tomorrow.


If we go by RL SP numbers, Yea that's pretty good


----------



## MoeBen

xV Slayer said:


> The hype was all crap as usual from @cstkl1 and @Falkentyne. I was ready to finally move on from my 10900k/9900k for my gaming rigs. Why would I spend $2000 for 5-8% boost in FPS?


If you wanna perceive it like that, sure .... but you would still be on a 7700K if it was all that mattered ...


----------



## 1devomer

MoeBen said:


> If you wanna perceive it like that, sure .... but you would still be on a 7700K if it was all that mattered ...


I wouldn't push that far.

Even if the 7700k is still a very capable cpu, especially when overclocked, it is quite limited when the software is build up, to take advantage of more cores.
Nowadays, mid/high end gpu are being quite limited by a 7700k, in modern gaming titles with decent multithreading implementation.


----------



## MoeBen

1devomer said:


> I wouldn't push that far.
> 
> Even if the 7700k is still a very capable cpu, especially when overclocked, it is quite limited when the software is build up, to take advantage of more cores.
> Nowadays, mid/high end gpu are being quite limited by a 7700k, in modern gaming titles with decent multithreading implementation.


Time for a 12600k


----------



## sniperpowa

cstkl1 said:


> yes. just plain old wc in humid hot malaysia. all easy to achieve


Awesome score My best 10900k cpu score 18,600 cant wait to start benching this thing. Guess I'll put my ln2 pot on it once I learn the platform!


----------



## xV Slayer

MoeBen said:


> If you wanna perceive it like that, sure .... but you would still be on a 7700K if it was all that mattered ...


That is not true at all. I made the jump from a 5930k to a 10900k. $2000 is not worth such a small performance increase at all.


----------



## cstkl1

sniperpowa said:


> Awesome score My best 10900k cpu score 18,600 cant wait to start benching this thing. Guess I'll put my ln2 pot on it once I learn the platform!


stock is 21.6k timespy cpu score


----------



## MoeBen

xV Slayer said:


> That is not true at all. I made the jump from a 5930k to a 10900k. $2000 is not worth such a small performance increase at all.


Performance ain't the only factor .... performance is subjective


----------



## thebski

Ordered a 12900K, and have an Asus Apex on preorder. Only thing I'm missing is DDR5, which will hopefully be available before 2022. I'm excited to play with something new. Been a while since my 9900K. Looks like pretty good single threaded gains for the first time in years from Intel.


----------



## rluker5

MoeBen said:


> If you wanna perceive it like that, sure .... but you would still be on a 7700K if it was all that mattered ...


Or a 5775c  But I game 4k, and it is a lot harder to max out a cpu at that.
Speaking of the 7700k, That's what I think Raptor Lake will be like, with Alder being the 6700K. My next upgrade will be Raptor and there should be more mobo, ram availability and refinements.
Sure the following gens will get bigger cores, but I think that there are only so many calculations per second that you can do per a given node, and the efficiency gains per step are shrinking.

That's one reason I like these small cores. As a casual user who's primary pc purpose is entertainment, I expect these small cores will keep the power use around what I have now if not better. ADL already matches Zen3 in per frame gaming efficiency, and that's worst case scenario with 100% max framerate. Probably beats it significantly in all lighter use efficiency. Really only loses where you would want a threadripper instead of either ADL or Zen3. Wonder if servers are going to use any small cores for their efficiency? Or if Arm is still a concern for x86 replacement?


----------



## AngryLobster

Pretty underwhelmed. I am running 5950x and wanted to move to Intel for better 0.1 and 1% lows. Not sure if it's worth it based on reviews so far.


----------



## Daniel M

Went to Microcenter (Tustin) this morning and was able to grab a 12900k. Their DDR5 selection was nonexistent and this was 10 minutes before they officially open. Only a 16GB Crucial 4800 kit.

So I'm waiting for the Hero from Amazon tomorrow or Monday. Newegg 32GB Crucial kit is shipping today. Newegg Bussiness 12900k also shipping today. EKWB bracket arrived this morning.

Hopefully I'll have a fun weekend project if it all comes in tomorrow.

Edit: USPS is going to deliver the Hero board today. Fingers crossed it looks like newegg shipped the RAM with same day delivery.


----------



## HyperMatrix

rluker5 said:


> All have the same gpu bottleneck. If your gpu is 99%, that is all of the frames you are going to get, regardless of your cpu. With gpu bottlenecked settings the different cpu were getting different fps, so not accurate.


I’m sick and tired of hearing this lie. It’s a lie. It’s not true. It’s completely false. And asides from that, higher cpu performance also results in better 1% lows and more consistent frame times. 100% GPU utilization means there’s little fps to gain, not no fps to gain. And again you end up with a smoother and more consistent experience. 



dante`afk said:


> underwhelming reviews.
> 
> Kinda regret buying into the hype
> 
> anyone wants some 12900k and and an apex ?



Haha if only you were in Canada. Would love that Apex board


----------



## 12700KF

Yay my APEX + CPU is on the way, I will get them tomorrow. Can´t wait to join you guys! Benchmarks are pretty exciting, even better while we are moving to the DDR5 platform. I have enough of the DDR4 era already and it will get obsolete soon or later anyway.
Stability + game crown at home


----------



## HyperMatrix

To those who are underwhelmed by alderlake…keep something in mind. A large part of it is the lack of high end DDR5. So the cpu performance gains are there but are being held back and hidden by memory latency. You can say it’s stock DDR4 vs stock DDR5. That’s true but it’s still a significant latency difference between the two which is what’s most important in gaming. And we see new faster ram being announced every week or two at this point. Although with none to be found for purchase.


----------



## AngryLobster

Ram will provide what? 3% more performance @ an additional $100-150 premium for faster kits right now. I'm judging performance available currently and it's inconsistent across different reviews so I dunno what to conclude. Gamersnexus has really poor lows, Hardwareunboxed shows big leads that aren't there on Anandtech, etc.

By the time DDR5 matters for most we will be at Zen4/Raptor Lake.


----------



## Spiriva

AngryLobster said:


> By the time DDR5 matters for most we will be at Zen4/Raptor Lake.


I wouldnt want a AMD system if they threw it after me. So much rubbish!


----------



## Daemon_xd

some Russian 12700k benchmarks with ddr4 and ddr5.
Managed to order 12900k but now luck with Apex or DDR5. Can order Hero but it will arrive only on November 16 and no sight of DDR5 in Russia unfortunately


----------



## rluker5

HyperMatrix said:


> I’m sick and tired of hearing this lie. It’s a lie. It’s not true. It’s completely false. And asides from that, higher cpu performance also results in better 1% lows and more consistent frame times. 100% GPU utilization means there’s little fps to gain, not no fps to gain. And again you end up with a smoother and more consistent experience.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haha if only you were in Canada. Would love that Apex board


----------



## 2500k_2

Msi a pro ddr4 + 12900k / we do not sell only micron ddr5. and she is terrible /because I'm sorry I can't support you.


----------



## 1devomer

AngryLobster said:


> Ram will provide what? 3% more performance @ an additional $100-150 premium for faster kits right now. I'm judging performance available currently and it's inconsistent across different reviews so I dunno what to conclude. Gamersnexus has really poor lows, Hardwareunboxed shows big leads that aren't there on Anandtech, etc.
> 
> By the time DDR5 matters for most we will be at Zen4/Raptor Lake.


That's why you wait the opinion and reviews of all the dudes and dudetes that ordered a cpu on the forum.
So they can provide a more accurate view on what's going on, get some benchmarks, check if there are bugs, etc, etc.
The usual routine.

Rubbish media, as influencers on utube, don't provide an accurate view of the product being sold, nowadays!


----------



## KyloRen

Here in Canada ddr5 is nowhere to be found, and all of the z690 ddr4 boards are trash. Why couldn't any mobo manufacturers make a decent mid to high end ddr4 boards for this generation? That could have encouraged more people to buy adl, just slot in their old high end ddr4 with new cpu and mobo and good to go. Imo it was a mistake pushing people to all go for ddr5.


----------



## .651955

rluker5 said:


> View attachment 2531027


I see that these results are at 4k. Is the performance gap larger at 1080p/1440p?


----------



## nievz

Seeing the reviews, glad to be rocking a good binned 5800x at this point in time with CO at -25 on all cores, gives me patience to wait on Raptor Lake when DDR5 is cheaper and faster, and hopefully Intel will be on 7nm or 5nm which should yield better power efficiency and trading blows with Zen4.

EDIT: looks like Raptor Lake will stay on 10nm so I wouldn't count on a cooler and power efficient CPU, Meteor Lake 7nm in 2023.


----------



## Falkentyne

Um guys.

My 1% FPS lows improved by 9% in SOTTR Trial benchmark, going from 5200 XMP Auto subs at 40/40/40/76, to 5400 @ 36-37-37-48 tightened subs. And 12% average FPS improvement.

If you did this with 6800 CL36 memory, you're probably looking at 30% min 1% lows improvement vs Jedec.


----------



## 1devomer

nievz said:


> Seeing the reviews, glad to be rocking a good binned 5800x at this point in time with CO at -25 on all cores, gives me patience to wait on Raptor Lake when DDR5 is cheaper and faster, and hopefully Intel will be on 7nm or 5nm which should yield better power efficiency and trading blows with Zen4.
> 
> EDIT: looks like Raptor Lake will stay on 10nm so I wouldn't count on a cooler and power efficient CPU, Meteor Lake 7nm in 2023.


You will see Intel coming back to the power efficiency scene, when the new High Numerical Aperture scanner (the machine that manufacture the chips) are finished.
Which are planed for 2023/2024, at this point and going on, smaller nodes will not be an issue anymore for Intel.
Since they will be able to steamroll 7/5nm in very high volumes, lower nodes for premium stuff!


----------



## HyperMatrix

rluker5 said:


> View attachment 2531027


You’re literally confirming what I said.


----------



## fluidwire

Falkentyne said:


> Um guys.
> 
> My 1% FPS lows improved by 9% in SOTTR Trial benchmark, going from 5200 XMP Auto subs at 40/40/40/76, to 5400 @ 36-37-37-48 tightened subs. And 12% average FPS improvement.
> 
> If you did this with 6800 CL36 memory, you're probably looking at 30% min 1% lows improvement vs Jedec.


Is there any other normal forum where you are active?
Admin on this forum is hard AMD fanboy, hard to discuss anything here. AMD fanboys are trolling over the Intel section...


----------



## geriatricpollywog

rluker5 said:


> View attachment 2531027


Thank you! This is what I was looking for.

See you guys at Raptor Lake launch!

Now should I sell my Intel stock…


----------



## nievz

Falkentyne said:


> Um guys.
> 
> My 1% FPS lows improved by 9% in SOTTR Trial benchmark, going from 5200 XMP Auto subs at 40/40/40/76, to 5400 @ 36-37-37-48 tightened subs. And 12% average FPS improvement.
> 
> If you did this with 6800 CL36 memory, you're probably looking at 30% min 1% lows improvement vs Jedec.


How are your FPS in Warzone and BF5 MP compared to 11900K? By any chance you play these games?


----------



## 1devomer

0451 said:


> Thank you! This is what I was looking for.
> 
> See you guys at Raptor Lake launch!
> 
> Now should I sell my Intel stock…


Intel stock was a buy until a couple of days ago, when it got down to 48$.
I'm mad at myself for not having these 240K$, to be able to get 5K Intel shares, these give back pretty good money (Intel managers if you heard me).
And to be honest, if you would have a stake at Intel, you would not be here, at this point!


----------



## geriatricpollywog

1devomer said:


> Intel stock was a buy until a couple day ago, when it got down to 48$.
> I'm mad at myself for not having these 240K$, to be able to get 5K Intel shares, these give back pretty good money.
> And to be honest, if you would have a stake at Intel, you would not be here, at this point!


I paid $49.57 average share price. Just debating whether I should dump it.


----------



## 1devomer

0451 said:


> I paid $49.57 average share price. Just debating whether I should dump it.


You are not getting back enough each quarter?


----------



## phillyman36

Got a tracking number for everything. Weird thing is the gskill s5 ram that wasnt supposed to come in until 11/26 shipped as well so I have 2 sets of ddr5 ram sheesh.


----------



## iraff1

Anyone have any idea when the gskill 6400 ram goes on sale? Gskill have not even listed these on their website yet so i guess they want to milk everyone on garbago ram kits and then release the good ones so you have to pay twice?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

1devomer said:


> You are not getting back enough each quarter?


I just bought it 2 days ago. I haven’t had it for a quarter.


----------



## nievz

Daemon_xd said:


> some Russian 12700k benchmarks with ddr4 and ddr5.
> Managed to order 12900k but now luck with Apex or DDR5. Can order Hero but it will arrive only on November 16 and no sight of DDR5 in Russia unfortunately


For some reason, the GPU utilization on ALD is pretty low.


----------



## roooo

Falkentyne said:


> Um guys.
> 
> My 1% FPS lows improved by 9% in SOTTR Trial benchmark, going from 5200 XMP Auto subs at 40/40/40/76, to 5400 @ 36-37-37-48 tightened subs. And 12% average FPS improvement.


What kit is this?


----------



## 1devomer

0451 said:


> I just bought it 2 days ago. I haven’t had it for a quarter.


So why do you want to sell them, Intel is not a company to buy shares to play with.
It's usually holding on long term and increasing slowly your stash.


----------



## roooo




----------



## dante`afk

assuming one has already a 10900k/11900k/5900x/5950x, you essentially pay 1500$ for 4-15% more performance in gaming. Depending then on the CPU, you even lose performance in MC workloads.

hell yea


----------



## rluker5

HyperMatrix said:


> You’re literally confirming what I said.


IKR?
There is even this one program Riva Tuner something that you can use to limit your framerate, much like a gpu bottleneck would, only whatever you arbitrarily set. Like I could run CP2077 at 1080p med, set it to 20fps and I would not be able to tell the difference in performance between my 780ti and my 3080. Imagine - a program that makes a 780ti as fast as a 3080.

That saves you all of the work to overload your gpu so much that you can't tell the difference between a faster and slower cpu. Crazy stuff.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

dante`afk said:


> assuming one has already a 10900k/11900k/5900x/5950x, you essentially pay 1500$ for 4-15% more performance in gaming. Depending then on the CPU, you even lose performance in MC workloads.
> 
> hell yea


If the 4-15% is at 1080p low, it might be worthwhile if you are a competitive gamer with a 300hz monitor. Since I have a 100hz 3440/1440 monitor, it looks like performance will be the same as 11900K.


----------



## dante`afk

yea, no one plays at the resolution nowadays, we're all at 1440p or even 4k, 1% better fps for 1500$ more. 😂

DDR5 does nothing.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

dante`afk said:


> yea, no one plays at the resolution nowadays, we're all at 1440p or even 4k, 1% better fps for 1500$ more. 😂
> 
> DDR5 does nothing.


It might scale with the next gen of GPUs. But for now, unless you have a 3090, 6900XT or plan on getting a 3090ti, don’t bother.


----------



## sblantipodi

Hi guys, I'm pretty worried about the 12900K, I have ordered it but reading the reviews it seems that without overclocking,
with the 241W default, CPU reaches 90°+C and sometimes 100°C even with a 360mm AIO.

Is this possible? How can I use a CPU without even overclocking it if I can't cool it with a good 360mm AIO?

Am I missing something?


----------



## 1devomer

dante`afk said:


> yea, no one plays at the resolution nowadays, we're all at 1440p or even 4k, 1% better fps for 1500$ more. 😂
> 
> DDR5 does nothing.


Nobody said that one should upgrade, if already owning one-year-old or two-year-old cpu, it is nonsense.
The real question is, what is the best advice for the people that own tree or more years old cpu, and want to upgrade.
And it is too early to be able to provide a meaningful answer to that question.

About the resolution, you are mostly gpu bound at 2K/4K, so dunno, what is the reasoning behind?!
DDR5 will not do anything in a gpu bound scenario, nor the DDR4 did anything in a gpu bound scenario neither.

Just you know it as a fact, the vast majority of the world still play at 1080p and lower.


----------



## .651955

sblantipodi said:


> Hi guys, I'm pretty worried about the 12900K, I have ordered it but reading the reviews it seems that without overclocking,
> with the 241W default, CPU reaches 90°+C and sometimes 100°C even with a 360mm AIO.
> 
> Is this possible? How can I use a CPU without even overclocking it if I can't cool it with a good 360mm AIO?
> 
> Am I missing something?


I wonder if that was on stock voltage or not. Could probably bring those temperatures down by a good margin with an undervolt, delid/liquid metal.


----------



## rluker5

sblantipodi said:


> Hi guys, I'm pretty worried about the 12900K, I have ordered it but reading the reviews it seems that without overclocking,
> with the 241W default, CPU reaches 90°+C and sometimes 100°C even with a 360mm AIO.
> 
> Is this possible? How can I use a CPU without even overclocking it if I can't cool it with a good 360mm AIO?
> 
> Am I missing something?


Depends what you will use it for. If you are planning on prime95ing it 24/7 you will need a pretty good cooling setup. If you want to game with it, check the reviews, it uses same power under load as Ryzen. I imagine disabling e cores and running 512 benchmarks will get pretty toasty as well.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

It has approximately the same die size and power consumption as Comet Lake so expect the same temperatures on equivalent cooling. I’m not expecting good stability as a result. Rocket Lake has a large die and easy to cool despite power consumption.


----------



## HyperMatrix

rluker5 said:


> IKR?
> There is even this one program Riva Tuner something that you can use to limit your framerate, much like a gpu bottleneck would, only whatever you arbitrarily set. Like I could run CP2077 at 1080p med, set it to 20fps and I would not be able to tell the difference in performance between my 780ti and my 3080. Imagine - a program that makes a 780ti as fast as a 3080.
> 
> That saves you all of the work to overload your gpu so much that you can't tell the difference between a faster and slower cpu. Crazy stuff.


This cpu is clearly not made for people like you.


----------



## Daniel M

My hero arrived. Now I'm wishing I had bought the RAM kit Microcenter had this morning...


----------



## fluidwire

dante`afk said:


> assuming one has already a 10900k/11900k/5900x/5950x, you essentially pay 1500$ for 4-15% more performance in gaming. Depending then on the CPU, you even lose performance in MC workloads.
> 
> hell yea


I have 10850K and yet I still gladly paid 1500$ to have the best performance the best stability gaming CPU.
HELL YEA

(how many more AMD trolls will come into this thread ...?)


----------



## warbucks

I picked up a Z690 Hero and 12900k today. Just need to find ram...which might be awhile from the looks of it.


----------



## Falkentyne

5200 mhz XMP stock settings auto subs (CL40-40-40-76), 5.2 ghz all cores. SOTTR benchmark latest build










5400 mhz CL36-37-37-42, 5.2 all cores


----------



## acoustic

Nice.


----------



## dante`afk

1devomer said:


> The real question is, what is the best advice for the people that own tree or more years old cpu, and want to upgrade.


12600k is the real winner here


----------



## ogider

-https://www.3dcenter.org/news/alder-lake-launchreviews-die-spiele-performance-im-ueberblick


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Falkentyne said:


> 5200 mhz XMP stock settings auto subs (CL40-40-40-76), 5.2 ghz all cores. SOTTR benchmark latest build
> 
> View attachment 2531049
> 
> 
> 5400 mhz CL36-37-37-42, 5.2 all cores
> 
> View attachment 2531050


While a good result, this is on par with 11900K.


----------



## HyperMatrix

Well this appears to be a popular board…


----------



## geriatricpollywog

HyperMatrix said:


> Well this appears to be a popular board…
> 
> View attachment 2531061


Wait for the XOC boards.


----------



## gerardfraser

KyloRen said:


> Here in Canada ddr5 is nowhere to be found, and all of the z690 ddr4 boards are trash. Why couldn't any mobo manufacturers make a decent mid to high end ddr4 boards for this generation? That could have encouraged more people to buy adl, just slot in their old high end ddr4 with new cpu and mobo and good to go. Imo it was a mistake pushing people to all go for ddr5.


I am in Canada ,there is DDR5 to be found. Price went up almost $100 bucks today for some reason. 

Well when I ordered this awhile back was $269 for 32GB DDR5 Canadian, Amazon Canada. 
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B0...c&pd_rd_w=3LZWU&pd_rd_wg=50VXE&ref_=pd_gw_unk

Here are some in stock in Canada 4800/5200
https://www.canadaram.com/DDR5.htm

Also newegg Canada has DDR4 5333Mhz but sold out of the under $200 Canadian DDR4 5066Mhz


----------



## geriatricpollywog

How is my 11900K #12 in the 8-thread CPU profile test 😂😂

DDR5?
P Cores?
10nm?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Falkentyne said:


> 5200 mhz XMP stock settings auto subs (CL40-40-40-76), 5.2 ghz all cores. SOTTR benchmark latest build
> 
> View attachment 2531049
> 
> 
> 5400 mhz CL36-37-37-42, 5.2 all cores
> 
> View attachment 2531050


How the heck the other guy get 361fps? Going from 5400 to 6400 gains 60fps?


----------



## Falkentyne

Thanh Nguyen said:


> How the heck the other guy get 361fps? Going from 5400 to 6400 gains 60fps?


k


----------



## gtz

Falkentyne said:


> Not just frequency but timings and command rate too.
> 
> 6600 1T command rate, CL36. He has hynix dimms.
> I'm limited by micron. And 2T. Micron can't do 1T.
> 
> You saw I gained 33 FPS between the two settings. Going from 5400 2T to 6600 1T with tight subs can easily be 60 FPS more.
> 
> I couldn't post with trdrd_sg=12 / trdrd_dg=8 / twrwr_sg=12 / twrwr_dg=8 like he could. I had to use auto for those just to POST. So that hurts me even more.


So hynix over micron.

Any Samsung info?


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Shawnb99 said:


> Grabbed a 12900k and hoping for a Asus Extreme but don't like my chances.


buy through Optimus , chances drop even further 😄


----------



## Antsu

Falkentyne said:


> 5200 mhz XMP stock settings auto subs (CL40-40-40-76), 5.2 ghz all cores. SOTTR benchmark latest build
> 
> View attachment 2531049
> 
> 
> 5400 mhz CL36-37-37-42, 5.2 all cores
> 
> View attachment 2531050


Thank you for these. Lower end Micron XMP DDR5 + 12900K = 5.5 CORE / 5.0 RING 9900KS + 4400 16-16-16 with super tight subs. I guess it's finally time to retire the old dog and try to get my hands on some DDR5. Seems to be impossible to get...








PS. Anybody try some DDR4 for fun? Actually considering getting a ASUS Z690-A DDR4 to hold me over until Sammy delivers the good stuff.


----------



## cstkl1

btw on synthethic try 3dmark FS for adl. 

thats where the insanity of adl gpu scores show. P core only oc is even bigger


----------



## ViTosS

Antsu said:


> Thank you for these. Lower end Micron XMP DDR5 + 12900K = 5.5 CORE / 5.0 RING 9900KS + 4400 16-16-16 with super tight subs. I guess it's finally time to retire the old dog and try to get my hands on some DDR5. Seems to be impossible to get...
> View attachment 2531074
> 
> 
> PS. Anybody try some DDR4 for fun? Actually considering getting a ASUS Z690-A DDR4 to hold me over until Sammy delivers the good stuff.


Update your game version
5.0 Core / 4.9 Ring 10900k + 4400 16-17-17 for reference


----------



## cstkl1

aida bug. lol

also bclk 200 is stable


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## kairi_zeroblade

60fps with just memory tweaking wut!!??


----------



## Falkentyne

kairi_zeroblade said:


> 60fps with just memory tweaking wut!!??


I got 33 FPS increase in SOTTR just going from XMP 5200 auto timiings/subs to 5400 tightened subs+primaries.


----------



## .651955

Falkentyne said:


> I got 33 FPS increase in SOTTR just going from XMP 5200 auto timiings/subs to 5400 tightened subs+primaries.


How are the BFV performance differences? iirc, SOTTR and BFV are two titles that really value high frequency over timings right?


----------



## centvalny

Micron seize the day. Hynie and Sammie..nowhere to be found they will be back in time for xmas


----------



## Falkentyne

IntoTheOC613 said:


> How are the BFV performance differences? iirc, SOTTR and BFV are two titles that really value high frequency over timings right?


Too busy studying and working to test that, I'm sorry.


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

centvalny said:


> Micron seize the day. Hynie and Sammie..nowhere to be found
> View attachment 2531093


Aida 64 bug on L3?? that seems high (forgive me if it sounded sarcastic and too harsh)


----------



## cstkl1

centvalny said:


> Micron seize the day. Hynie and Sammie..nowhere to be found
> View attachment 2531093


that bandwidth and latency bugged bro.. with that bclk oc.


----------



## cstkl1

kairi_zeroblade said:


> Aida 64 bug on L3?? that seems high (forgive me if it sounded sarcastic and too harsh)


its doing a multiplication on bclk

so all result aida is based on bclk 100 : real, bclk 200 .. 2x all bandwidth and 1/2 on latency approximately


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## Shawnb99

Can we buy it yet?


----------



## cstkl1

Shawnb99 said:


> Can we buy it yet?


??
@GSKILL SUPPORT


----------



## centvalny

cstkl1 said:


> that bandwidth and latency bugged bro.. with that bclk oc.


Oh did not know that. I will re run it.


----------



## cstkl1

centvalny said:


> Oh did not know that. I will re run it.


go 200bclk bro for fun. lol


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Thanh Nguyen said:


> How the heck the other guy get 361fps? Going from 5400 to 6400 gains 60fps?


SOT gain more from ram, it don´t look that the pure CPU power really limited in that case.
In other game´s i think the difference are much higher.


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

why are you ripping off screenshots..lol..I tend to forget the values I saw..lol..is there still an NDA of some sort..lol..


----------



## 2500k_2

5.4 480wt in prime / not bad 12900k


----------



## PhoenixMDA

kairi_zeroblade said:


> *why are you ripping off screenshots..lol*..I tend to forget the values I saw..lol..is there still an NDA of some sort..lol..


If you mean me because of 5120x1440 + fhd keyboard display if i make a screenshot.


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

PhoenixMDA said:


> If you mean me because of 5120x1440 + fhd keyboard display if i make a screenshot.


nope..but yeah kinda its kinda small for my eyes to read..hahaha..the previous page had a screenshot that was now gone and I was trying to compare the timings and latency and stuff..lmao..


----------



## PhoenixMDA

That's not important, 361FPS AVG has shown with ADL and i think later with better DDR5 more is possible that's is a really good performance gain.
For the first DDR5 is that really good and the power consumtion at gaming is also great.


----------



## MoeBen

KyloRen said:


> Here in Canada ddr5 is nowhere to be found, and all of the z690 ddr4 boards are trash. Why couldn't any mobo manufacturers make a decent mid to high end ddr4 boards for this generation? That could have encouraged more people to buy adl, just slot in their old high end ddr4 with new cpu and mobo and good to go. Imo it was a mistake pushing people to all go for ddr5.


 Found a plug for ddr5 canadaRAM ... and newegg got z690 aorus master in stock managed to order one


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

REEP!!

12900K here is 900$ KF less 50$
12700K here is 560$ KF less 60$
12600K here is 370$ KF less 60$

damn Asia..


----------



## cstkl1

kairi_zeroblade said:


> REEP!!
> 
> 12900K here is 900$ KF less 50$
> 12700K here is 560$ KF less 60$
> 12600K here is 370$ KF less 60$
> 
> damn Asia..


y asia? its ure local intel distro hiking the price or your tax 
intel cpu in MY always usd mrsp. AMD distro always inflated mrsp.


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

cstkl1 said:


> y asia? its ure local intel distro hiking the price or your tax
> intel cpu in MY always usd mrsp. AMD distro always inflated mrsp.


There is no local Intel distro, its 3rd party..

there is no difference here with a scalper and a legit seller, I buy my stuff from abroad since its cheaper (by alot) I have to find an external supplier for the 12th gen in case..damn local prices are hyped..


----------



## dante`afk

AT/DE has the apex for MRSP.









ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Apex Gaming Mainboard Sockel Intel LGA1700


.ci{padding:.5em!important}.c-comparison-table-main-cell{background:#1d1d1d!important;border-left:#1d1d1d!important;border-right:#1d1d1d!important}.c…




webshop.asus.com





why the f does asus have no american webshop?


----------



## morph.

The burning question I have, do KF's oc better than K's in general due to no IGPU etc...?


----------



## dante`afk

no


----------



## cstkl1

dante`afk said:


> AT/DE has the apex for MRSP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Apex Gaming Mainboard Sockel Intel LGA1700
> 
> 
> .ci{padding:.5em!important}.c-comparison-table-main-cell{background:#1d1d1d!important;border-left:#1d1d1d!important;border-right:#1d1d1d!important}.c…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> webshop.asus.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why the f does asus have no american webshop?


before that
y doesnt asus has one in the region where most of its earning comes from? 
y


----------



## IronAge

dante`afk said:


> AT/DE has the apex for MRSP.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Apex Gaming Mainboard Sockel Intel LGA1700
> 
> 
> .ci{padding:.5em!important}.c-comparison-table-main-cell{background:#1d1d1d!important;border-left:#1d1d1d!important;border-right:#1d1d1d!important}.c…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> webshop.asus.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why the f does asus have no american webshop?


need an apex ? i get one too much. trade Apex for two Kits of Trident Z5 5600C36.


----------



## iraff1

question to you non professional overclockers who don't get cpu samples for free, how do you bin cpus? Will retailers allow you to open and use a cpu and then return it based on "it didn't overclock good" ?


----------



## dante`afk

IronAge said:


> need an apex ? i get one too much. trade Apex for two Kits of Trident Z5 5600C36.


I have one coming but wont be here until next weekend, can't wait 

it's funny how our thinking process is, if there is new hardware, we want IT NOW, YESTERDAY.

No tomorrow


----------



## HyperMatrix

iraff1 said:


> question to you non professional overclockers who don't get cpu samples for free, how do you bin cpus? Will retailers allow you to open and use a cpu and then return it based on "it didn't overclock good" ?


That’s a terrible thing to do. I usually buy a few and sell them second hand for a minimal loss.


----------



## SuperMumrik

First cpu and motherboard are here. DDR4 testing with @Carillo this weekend. APEX arrives on Monday, but I could only get some Fury sticks that should be here sometime next week.


----------



## Shawnb99

iraff1 said:


> question to you non professional overclockers who don't get cpu samples for free, how do you bin cpus? Will retailers allow you to open and use a cpu and then return it based on "it didn't overclock good" ?


No where will return it for that reason. You commit fraud and say it doesn’t work or has issues instead…. Don’t do that


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## domdtxdissar

cstkl1 said:


>


Are ddr4 3600 MT/s really the limit for gear1 on Alder Lake ? Every ddr4 setup running above 3600MT/s are using gear2..

Also alittle strange he didnt test faster ddr4 than 4266, something like ~5000 MT/s if gear 2 really is required for anything above ddr4 3600.

Think i need to see more tests with ddr4 vs ddr5 before i make up my mind 

_edit_

Also gimped ddr4 XMP CL16 timings from 3000 to 3800 MT/s and CL18 for 4266 MT/s dont look all that good when he is comparing against allmost the most expensive ddr5 memory on the market right now lol..


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I'm playing with E-cores....


----------



## sugi0lover

The Korean web site did live 12900K binning broadcast today.
Here is the result passing CineR23 3times.

MB: Z690 Apex (Open Case)
Z73 Water Cooler


----------



## Shawnb99

Only way to see the SP number is with an Asus board?


----------



## sugi0lover

Shawnb99 said:


> Only way to see the SP number is with an Asus board?


Afaik, yes!


----------



## sugi0lover

Here are two 12900Ks posted in Korean website.

[Z690 Apex,
ignore temp becuase he used AMD water block just to see SP]









[Z690 Asus Strix A]


----------



## weleh

iraff1 said:


> question to you non professional overclockers who don't get cpu samples for free, how do you bin cpus? Will retailers allow you to open and use a cpu and then return it based on "it didn't overclock good" ?


In the EU, any purchase online can be returned within 15 day window so Amazon and other e-tailers are good for this.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Now waiting for direct die kit.


----------



## nievz

Until DDR5 speeds improve, doesn't it makes sense to use DDR4 with tight timings on ALD because anything pass 3800mhz will run in Gear 2 which results in higher latency? Although, has anybody tried running DDR4 3800mhz CL14 on Gear 1, can ALD easily handle this?


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> Here are two 12900Ks posted in Korean website.
> 
> [Z690 Apex,
> ignore temp becuase he used AMD water block just to see SP]
> View attachment 2531146
> 
> 
> [Z690 Asus Strix A]
> View attachment 2531145


inform the guy. if he enters au feature. he will see SP of P and E core seperately


----------



## cstkl1

nievz said:


> Until DDR5 speeds improve, doesn't it makes sense to use DDR4 with tight timings on ALD because anything pass 3800mhz will run in Gear 2 which results in higher latency? Although, has anybody tried running DDR4 3800mhz CL14 on Gear 1, can ALD easily handle this?


strix A no problem 4000c14


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

@Falkentyne I ran your SOTTR bench settings on mine with my Radeon GPU..on my Default settings (this is not yet my Benching settings), I did get the same score as you did..  so how come you lost FPS on lower DDR5 frequency/settings??


----------



## Spiriva

iraff1 said:


> question to you non professional overclockers who don't get cpu samples for free, how do you bin cpus? Will retailers allow you to open and use a cpu and then return it based on "it didn't overclock good" ?


You live in EU/Sweden, so yes that is exactly what you can do. In fact you dont have to say anything, just return it and order a new.


----------



## Falkentyne

kairi_zeroblade said:


> View attachment 2531158
> 
> 
> View attachment 2531157
> 
> 
> @Falkentyne I ran your SOTTR bench settings on mine with my Radeon GPU..on my Default settings (this is not yet my Benching settings), I did get the same score as you did..  so how come you lost FPS??


How am I supposed to know? I barely run benchmarks.


----------



## nievz

cstkl1 said:


> strix A no problem 4000c14


Hmmm... i'm still deciding on DDR5. What made you choose DDR4?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Falkentyne said:


> How am I supposed to know? I barely run benchmarks.


6900XT is faster than 3090FE at 1080p.


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

0451 said:


> 6900XT is faster than 3090FE at 1080p.


we're both CPU bound with the settings he used, GPU bound was 0%, also I use 6800XT...I barely saw a 6900XT locally..


----------



## 1devomer

kairi_zeroblade said:


> we're both CPU bound with the settings he used, GPU bound was 0%, also I use 6800XT...I barely saw a 6900XT locally..


Your bad faith is growing larger lately, and/or you simply need glasses, learn how to read numbers and maybe some math!

12900K/3090









5900X/6800XT


----------



## RobertoSampaio

cstkl1 said:


> inform the guy. if he enters au feature. he will see SP of P and E core seperately


Like this....


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

1devomer said:


> Your bad faith is growing larger lately, and/or you simply need glasses, learn how to read numbers and maybe some math!
> 
> 12900K/3090
> View attachment 2531160
> 
> 
> 5900X/6800XT
> View attachment 2531162


then why his total frames are lesser when he was running a slower DDR5?? bad faith?? on what?? I saw those numbers, but the totality of the benchmark made it confusing..

edit: I am referring to this post: Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion


----------



## 1devomer

kairi_zeroblade said:


> then why his total frames are lesser when he was running a slower DDR5?? bad faith?? on what?? I saw those numbers, but the totality of the benchmark made it confusing..
> 
> edit: I am referring to this post if his: Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion


Yeah, whatsoever!


----------



## dante`afk

kairi_zeroblade said:


> View attachment 2531158
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Falkentyne I ran your SOTTR bench settings on mine with my Radeon GPU..on my Default settings (this is not yet my Benching settings), I did get the same score as you did..  so how come you lost FPS on lower DDR5 frequency/settings??



you gotta mention here as well that the AMD driver puts a certain amount of default load on the gpu whereas the nvidia driver doesnt, which causes the min FPS to be better than a comparable nvidia cpu.


----------



## Shawnb99

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Now waiting for direct die kit.


I've already requested one from Rockitcool


----------



## Carillo

Bought the cheapest D4 motherboard on the market while waiting for DDR5 for the Apex. Asus Prime z690M 5,3ghz. Good old R15


----------



## Exilon

Any difference in performance between max ring clock P-cores only vs max ring clock all cores enabled? For example in GB5 ST?


----------



## dante`afk

Shawnb99 said:


> I've already requested one from Rockitcool


u requested something that is not available?


----------



## Antsu

Carillo said:


> Bought the cheapest D4 motherboard on the market while waiting for DDR5 for the Apex. Asus Prime z690M 5,3ghz. Good old R15
> View attachment 2531174


Nice! Very tempted to pull the trigger on this combo and wait for DDR5 to mature a few months. R15 looking good, finally a solid 20% increase over the 250pts my 8700K scored on single core. Keep the benches coming!


----------



## Shawnb99

dante`afk said:


> u requested something that is not available?


It's called asking for when it's available


----------



## Nizzen

iraff1 said:


> question to you non professional overclockers who don't get cpu samples for free, how do you bin cpus? Will retailers allow you to open and use a cpu and then return it based on "it didn't overclock good" ?


14 days free return komplett.no LOL

Buy 20 cpu's take the best 😅


----------



## Carillo

Exilon said:


> Any difference in performance between max ring clock P-cores only vs max ring clock all cores enabled? For example in GB5 ST?


The efficiency cores actually helps out. Only had 30 mins today. Will update you tomorrow.


----------



## Falkentyne

sugi0lover said:


> The Korean web site did live 12900K binning broadcast today.
> Here is the result passing CineR23 3times.
> - MB: Z690 Apex
> View attachment 2531143


Uh.....yeah.
My QS SP91 (Big cores SP99, small cores SP74? I forgot what the small cores are) needs 1.285v LLC7 (1.234v load) to pass R23 3x at 5200 P/4000E cores and reaches 96C max DTS temp
(Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360).

@RobertoSampaio 's QS chip, which is either SP91 or SP92, but his big cores are SP101 (he's using a Liquid Freezer II 420 with custom mount with springs and bolts, perfect pressure but MX-4 thermal paste) can't even do this test at 5.2 P/4.0P. He reaches 100C and BSOD's at 1.280v bios set LLC7. 5.1P/4.0E works but overheats (gets too hot) but he gets 29000 R23 score.

@cstkl1 (SP89 QS) is sleeping, AFK or having dreams about 6600 1T in safedisk's computer lab, so I want to see what his can do.

Either the QS chips are worse binned than retail or the Koreans are using 15C ambient temps...


----------



## iraff1

Nizzen said:


> 14 days free return komplett.no LOL
> 
> Buy 20 cpu's take the best 😅


Hah, if you can open the box without making it look like it is opened i guess? Or do they even take returns for opened items? Imagine buying a brand new 12900 only to receive a opened package lol, i'd be mad.


----------



## xarot

Carillo said:


> Bought the cheapest D4 motherboard on the market while waiting for DDR5 for the Apex. Asus Prime z690M 5,3ghz. Good old R15
> View attachment 2531174


That's a VERY nice score for single thread. Love my 7980XE setup too much though. 

@Nizzen retiring the 7980XE yet? Hehe.


----------



## dante`afk

Nizzen said:


> 14 days free return komplett.no LOL
> 
> Buy 20 cpu's take the best 😅


 pretty ****ty behavior if you do this.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Falkentyne said:


> Uh.....yeah.
> My QS SP91 (Big cores SP99, small cores SP74? I forgot what the small cores are) needs 1.285v LLC7 (1.234v load) to pass R23 3x at 5200 P/4000E cores and reaches 96C max DTS temp
> (Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360).
> 
> @RobertoSampaio 's QS chip, which is either SP91 or SP92, but his big cores are SP101 (he's using a Liquid Freezer II 420 with custom mount with springs and bolts, perfect pressure but MX-4 thermal paste) can't even do this test at 5.2 P/4.0P. He reaches 100C and BSOD's at 1.280v bios set LLC7. 5.1P/4.0E works but overheats (gets too hot) but he gets 29000 R23 score.
> 
> @cstkl1 (SP89 QS) is sleeping, AFK or having dreams about 6600 1T in safedisk's computer lab, so I want to see what his can do.
> 
> Either the QS chips are worse binned than retail or the Koreans are using 15C ambient temps...


Take a look at the core temps at idle and you can imagine the room temp...


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I was testing the 12900k e-cores only.... 40x...
The cpuz MT score, using just the e-cores, is almost the score of my 10900k stock running 20T....

The e-cores are monsters!


----------



## GSKILL SUPPORT

cstkl1 said:


> ??
> @GSKILL SUPPORT


The first Trident Z5 kits should be available for purchase in the upcoming weeks. NewEgg.com typically has new products available first so that is likely the best place to keep a look out.


----------



## TheSteez

GSKILL SUPPORT said:


> The first Trident Z5 kits should be available for purchase in the upcoming weeks. NewEgg.com typically has new products available first so that is likely the best place to keep a look out.


When are the good bins going to come out? For example, bins with 10ns memory access latency or less.


----------



## rulik006

domdtxdissar said:


> Are ddr4 3600 MT/s really the limit for gear1 on Alder Lake ? Every ddr4 setup running above 3600MT/s are using gear2...


i2hard 12700k QS run at 3700
Weird fact that DDR4 in 4266c18 is better than 3600c16 G1 and this is the second review with similar results
ADL does well in Gear2 and has no performance degradation compared to RKL and junk ryzen fabric


----------



## gtz

RobertoSampaio said:


> I was testing the 12900k e-cores only.... 40x...
> The cpuz MT score, using just the e-cores, is almost the score of my 10900k stock running 20T....
> 
> The e-cores are monsters!


So the e cores are comparable to a 4.6-4.9 Skylake? That is impressive.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

gtz said:


> So the e cores are comparable to a 4.6-4.9 Skylake? That is impressive.


with a little exaggeration of mine.... Lol


----------



## Spiriva

iraff1 said:


> Hah, if you can open the box without making it look like it is opened i guess? Or do they even take returns for opened items? Imagine buying a brand new 12900 only to receive a opened package lol, i'd be mad.


If you order a product online you have the right to "try it out", that means open the box and test it. Ofc its not very 'nice' to buy many cpus and open the boxes and look for the best, but you can.
The shop will most likely sell the returned cpu´s etc in pre-builds so the customer who buys it will never know he got a 'used' cpu.


----------



## gtz

RobertoSampaio said:


> with a little exaggeration of mine.... Lol


It's in line with what another review I read. Basically has the performance of a non hyper threaded Skylake. So it is believable.

Sapphire Rapids X is going to be a monster, hopefully the entry chip would be 1K for X699 (or whatever Intel will call it).


----------



## Nizzen

xarot said:


> That's a VERY nice score for single thread. Love my 7980XE setup too much though.
> 
> @Nizzen retiring the 7980XE yet? Hehe.


Never lol 😆

Too many systems here now with 3x 1200k arriving and apex and hero z690 😂


----------



## Shawnb99

Spiriva said:


> If you order a product online you have the right to "try it out", that means open the box and test it.


I don't know of a single store that would allow that here.


----------



## sugi0lover

Falkentyne said:


> Uh.....yeah.
> My QS SP91 (Big cores SP99, small cores SP74? I forgot what the small cores are) needs 1.285v LLC7 (1.234v load) to pass R23 3x at 5200 P/4000E cores and reaches 96C max DTS temp
> (Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360).
> 
> @RobertoSampaio 's QS chip, which is either SP91 or SP92, but his big cores are SP101 (he's using a Liquid Freezer II 420 with custom mount with springs and bolts, perfect pressure but MX-4 thermal paste) can't even do this test at 5.2 P/4.0P. He reaches 100C and BSOD's at 1.280v bios set LLC7. 5.1P/4.0E works but overheats (gets too hot) but he gets 29000 R23 score.
> 
> @cstkl1 (SP89 QS) is sleeping, AFK or having dreams about 6600 1T in safedisk's computer lab, so I want to see what his can do.
> 
> Either the QS chips are worse binned than retail or the Koreans are using 15C ambient temps...


According to the video, they said ambient temp is twenty something C and they are running air conditioner.
Anyway, I also thought the idle temps of cores were low considering the ambient temp they said.
Maybe the location of system is close to AC?
They also had one QS and that bench guy who had QS for a while said those retail 12900ks they tested were a lot better than QS one. Maybe his QS was bad one, only one sample~


----------



## sugi0lover

[ASUS TurboV Core V1.10.19]

support Intel Z690 and below platform.
fix alder lake E-core disabled issue.
support windows 11

TurboV_Core_1.10.19.zip


----------



## acoustic

Spiriva said:


> If you order a product online you have the right to "try it out", that means open the box and test it. Ofc its not very 'nice' to buy many cpus and open the boxes and look for the best, but you can.
> The shop will most likely sell the returned cpu´s etc in pre-builds so the customer who buys it will never know he got a 'used' cpu.


...no, you don't have a right to return a product based off it not being a good bin..


----------



## gerardfraser

Well I am an idiot,I know there is no difference in PC gaming but I can not wait to play test games at 1080p on low settings.

After cancelling my 12900K,motherboard,ram yesterday ,I went out to the computer store today and bought 12900k,motherboard blah blah but I can not install,still waiting on 1700 bracket for AIO 360mm.Good news bought one of those fancy M.2 7000MB/s drives which also make no difference in PC gaming. Hurry up and release something new AMD so I can sell this crap.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Playing around with the Strix d4 [email protected]/4.3Ghz
SP90 according to the uefi
(Aida license stopped working)


----------



## pipeclock

Because I missed 12900K, and new order has unknown delivery time, just sharing SP value of my 12700K which I was able to buy. Maybe it´s time to disable my 47 SP E-Cores lol. 72 SP for P-Cores is at least average I guess, considering it´s just 12700K. Anyway, overal SP 63 rating does not sound too much optimistic  Just playing with BIOS atm and trying to get familiar with the settings.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

SuperMumrik said:


> Playing around with the Strix d4 [email protected]/4.3Ghz
> SP90 according to the uefi
> (Aida license stopped working)
> View attachment 2531247


P53x E43x ?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

SuperMumrik said:


> Playing around with the Strix d4 [email protected]/4.3Ghz
> SP90 according to the uefi
> (Aida license stopped working)
> View attachment 2531247


Very nice bandwidth! Looks like DDR4 is the way to go if you already have a kit.


----------



## SuperMumrik

RobertoSampaio said:


> P53x E43x ?


Yup


----------



## kairi_zeroblade

is the SP rating now (ADL) more consistent across all batches for retail?? or there is still some random crap out there..

@SuperMumrik nice DDR4 runs and nice OC there..


----------



## RobertoSampaio

SuperMumrik said:


> Yup


It's impossible to me anything higher than p51x e40x... Temps are too high....

What is your vcore for p53/e43 ?


----------



## SuperMumrik

RobertoSampaio said:


> What is your vcore for p53/e43 ?


1.38 llc5, but this is not what I would consider dayli settings until I get a direct die block


----------



## dante`afk

@SuperMumrik whats your cooling setup and temps?


----------



## SuperMumrik

dante`afk said:


> @SuperMumrik whats your cooling setup and temps?


This was with 15C water for consistency while trying to dial in memory. I had mid 60s on cores during cb, but that's all the cpu testing I've done so far. 
This board is giving me a hard time with memory training (it's no apex, that's for sure). 

Will be using my mo-ra when testing/benchmarks are done 👌


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Like I said before ADL has a hard wall at 5.1-5.2 due to temp. We need direct die block for this cpu.


----------



## cstkl1

he


SuperMumrik said:


> This was with 15C water for consistency while trying to dial in memory. I had mid 60s on cores during cb, but that's all the cpu testing I've done so far.
> This board is giving me a hard time with memory training (it's no apex, that's for sure).
> 
> Will be using my mo-ra when testing/benchmarks are done 👌


try manually dialing in rtl


----------



## Falkentyne

You guys need to start stress testing your so-called "dailies" in a real program. Stockfish chess engine on all threads.
Let's watch your overclocks crash and burn.

Get the AVX2 version here





Stockfish - Open Source Chess Engine


Stockfish is a powerful and open source chess engine.




stockfishchess.org





Or you can get the BMI2 version on the development page under "Haswell" (no idea if BMI2 is harder than AVX2).
Stockfish Development Versions ;Modern computers is the avx2 one

Then download Arena UCI client and install it. Then go to engine management and load the EXE for the engine in there directly.
under the "Engines" menu. 
Then you need to configure the engine for more than 1 thread. You can save the parameters after.
You can see the # of threads it's running on in the engine output area.
Then you can activate, pause or deactivate the engine.

Prepare to get some clock watchdog timeouts.


Arena Chess GUI


----------



## Spiriva

acoustic said:


> ...no, you don't have a right to return a product based off it not being a good bin..


Here in the freeworld (Europe) its your right by law to do that. You dont need a reason to return a product. Anything you buy online (execption toiletries etc) you have the right to try and return for a full refund within 14 days of buying the produkt.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Spiriva said:


> Here in the freeworld (Europe) its your right by law to do that. You dont need a reason to return a product. Anything you buy online (execption toiletries etc) you have the right to try and return for a full refund within 14 days of buying the produkt.


Here in the _real_ free world where you can legally carry a firearm, Microcenter and most other retailers offer 30 day returns, no questions asked. Newegg sometimes gets around this by offering software bundles. You can’t return a CPU if it came with an antivirus download code.


----------



## HyperMatrix

Spiriva said:


> Here in the freeworld (Europe) its your right by law to do that. You dont need a reason to return a product. Anything you buy online (execption toiletries etc) you have the right to try and return for a full refund within 14 days of buying the produkt.


Right. And by doing so, you're either causing a loss to the retailer out of your abuse of this "right," or if they just pass the used CPUs on to others, you end up robbing other customers of the potential to get an equal random chance at a binned CPU. Because you felt you had a "right" to pick out the best of the lot at no cost to you and to hell with anyone else who may be affected as a result. 

It's also not a "free world" if the retailer isn't "free" to deny a return of 20 CPUs that someone bought, opened, used, and devalued with the intention of returning them all after finding the right binned CPU for themselves. You're just happy that in this unfair system, you're the one who benefits.


----------



## safedisk

Hynix Memory is a good choice for users who want performance
so i like hynix 

ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX 1T 6600 30-37-37-28 1.48v

Aida64 Latency 49.3ns
Geekbench3 Multi Memscore 13438


----------



## geriatricpollywog

safedisk said:


> View attachment 2531271
> 
> View attachment 2531272
> 
> View attachment 2531273
> 
> 
> Hynix Memory is a good choice for users who want performance
> so i like hynix
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX 1T 6600 30-37-37-28 1.48v
> 
> Aida64 Latency 49.3ns
> Geekbench3 Multi Memscore 13438


Thank you for sharing! If you don’t mind my asking, which kits have you played with and how do they compare?


----------



## Antsu

safedisk said:


> View attachment 2531271
> 
> View attachment 2531272
> 
> View attachment 2531273
> 
> 
> Hynix Memory is a good choice for users who want performance
> so i like hynix
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX 1T 6600 30-37-37-28 1.48v
> 
> Aida64 Latency 49.3ns
> Geekbench3 Multi Memscore 13438


Holy smokes! Can't wait for the day us immortals get to enjoy such sticks. Hope that day is soon.


----------



## cstkl1

safedisk said:


> View attachment 2531271
> 
> View attachment 2531272
> 
> View attachment 2531273
> 
> 
> Hynix Memory is a good choice for users who want performance
> so i like hynix
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX 1T 6600 30-37-37-28 1.48v
> 
> Aida64 Latency 49.3ns
> Geekbench3 Multi Memscore 13438


he finally free to meet the regular folks after all xoc..

crazy ram, crazy board ... meets one of the best ram ocers in the world. 💪


----------



## sugi0lover

got my 12900K + Z690 Apex... time to oc~~~ but no ddr5


----------



## ogider

0451 said:


> Very nice bandwidth!


yea 67k with 3800? Very nice idd.


----------



## skullbringer

domdtxdissar said:


> Are ddr4 3600 MT/s really the limit for gear1 on Alder Lake ? Every ddr4 setup running above 3600MT/s are using gear2..
> 
> Also alittle strange he didnt test faster ddr4 than 4266, something like ~5000 MT/s if gear 2 really is required for anything above ddr4 3600.
> 
> Think i need to see more tests with ddr4 vs ddr5 before i make up my mind
> 
> _edit_
> 
> Also gimped ddr4 XMP CL16 timings from 3000 to 3800 MT/s and CL18 for 4266 MT/s dont look all that good when he is comparing against allmost the most expensive ddr5 memory on the market right now lol..


ddr4 imc is very similar to rkl, so you might get up to 3866 out of it but it's a roll of the dice.

I'm a lot more surprised that ddr5 5400 still works in gear 1, like then why did everyone else bench with ddr5 in gear2? reviewers to lazy to do anything but load xmp


----------



## cstkl1

skullbringer said:


> ddr4 imc is very similar to rkl, so you might get up to 3866 out of it but it's a roll of the dice.
> 
> I'm a lot more surprised that ddr5 5400 still works in gear 1, like then why did everyone else bench with ddr5 in gear2? reviewers to lazy to do anything but load xmp


??? gear 1 ddr5.. ??


----------



## ThinbinJim

cstkl1 said:


>


How much performance is lost when e-cores are used and the ring downclocks from 4.7ghz to 3.6ghz? Seems crazy to me that the P-cores operate at 4.9ghz while the ring is only at 3.6ghz even if only one E-core is loaded.


----------



## cstkl1

ThinbinJim said:


> How much performance is lost when e-cores are used and the ring downclocks from 4.7ghz to 3.6ghz? Seems crazy to me that the P-cores operate at 4.9ghz while the ring is only at 3.6ghz even if only one E-core is loaded.


that one he is wrong or not explained clearly
stock
cstate on, ringdown auto, cache min/max auto
when p core loaded cache is 47 when E is loaded 36. u can see it in on anybodies aida


----------



## skullbringer

cstkl1 said:


> ??? gear 1 ddr5.. ??


check der8auer's video


----------



## phillyman36

The rest of my things came yesterday. Put it all together. Love it so far though haven't had it up and running for long. Probably the only time my rig will be at full load is when I convert a video to dvd and that only takes like 5 to 10 minutes. Rest of the time I'm just on the internet or playing games like Fortnite and since I don't try to sustain high overclock I don't think my power consumption will be high all the time. The Amd is getting torn apart and gonna be sold. Microcenter has the 12700k on sale for 400 so after I get my car serviced I'm might grab one for a second rig. Just cant decide on if I should get a ddr4 board and use memory I had in the Amd rig(send my gskill ram back to Newegg) or if I should keep the gksill and grab a ddr5 board.


----------



## ThinbinJim

cstkl1 said:


> when p core loaded cache is 47 when E is loaded 36. u can see it in on anybodies aida


That's what he said in the video as far as I'm aware. Do you know how much that 1.1ghz downclock impacts the P-cores' 1T performance?


----------



## cstkl1

skullbringer said:


> check der8auer's video












*DDR4 4266/3800 is gear 2, 3600,3000 in gear 1

all ddr5 is gear 2 .. check skatterbench video. he explains y


----------



## cstkl1

ThinbinJim said:


> That's what he said in the video as far as I'm aware. Do you know how much that 1.1ghz downclock impacts the P-cores' 1T performance?


only latency 3-4ns.


----------



## skullbringer

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2531288
> 
> 
> *DDR4 4266/3800 is gear 2, 3600,3000 in gear 1
> 
> all ddr5 is gear 2 .. check skatterbench video. he explains y


lol you just wrote something else than what is in the screenshot
if what der8auer meant to say that only 3600 and 3000 were gear 1, why not write: "ddr4 3000 and ddr4 3600 gear 1, rest gear 2" ????


----------



## MaghX

Its obvious that "rest Gear 1" is about ddr4 only


----------



## sugi0lover

I shared this video because it was interesting to me.
Especially for gaming, 11th gen + Gear 1 4000c14 is better than 12th gen + DDR5 4800.


----------



## skullbringer

MaghX said:


> Its obvious that "rest Gear 1" is about ddr4 only


yeah no, that's not how english works, or for that matter any language expressing such logic. but I digress, probably just a misunderstanding of his with his editor then. it's obviously an error and can cause misinformation.


----------



## MaghX

Well, we are not a google robots, its a technical video for people with at least minimal knowledge about this topic, thats why it is obvious for everyone.

But from pure language perspective you are right, it can be a misleading simplification


----------



## HyperMatrix

sugi0lover said:


> I shared this video because it was interesting to me.
> Especially for gaming, 11th gen + Gear 1 4000c14 is better than 12th gen + DDR5 4800.
> 
> View attachment 2531289
> 
> View attachment 2531290
> 
> View attachment 2531292


That's only the conclusion at 1080p. Otherwise 1440p on average is higher fps. And I'd assume 4K would be the same. And all of this is with really really bad non-overclocked DDR5 memory. As others have posted here, huge gains are to be had from OC'ing your memory to reduce latency. There may be a case for DDR4 12900K. But not DDR4 11900K.


----------



## 2500k_2

safedisk said:


> View attachment 2531271
> 
> View attachment 2531272
> 
> View attachment 2531273
> 
> 
> Hynix Memory is a good choice for users who want performance
> so i like hynix
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX 1T 6600 30-37-37-28 1.48v
> 
> Aida64 Latency 49.3ns
> Geekbench3 Multi Memscore 13438


Greetings, great result! very impressive. But let me ask you? why you set tRAS <tRCD.
This is not entirely logical in terms of processes in memory. I'm not sure that the motherboard has applied such a value.
could you take a small test out of your configuration?
for example run super pi on your settings and tras = tRCD + tRTP( 12) (the minimum possible tras in ddr5) . will there be a big difference?
i'm just not sure if the motherboard really applied such a low tRC
it should be tRCD + tRTP (12 nCK min for ddr5) + tRP = 37 + 12 + 37 = 86 (in your case)
Perhaps APEX is a very smart motherboard and it fixes some timings?


----------



## propa

Here are my i9 12900K ASUS Z690-E Gaming Wifi @5,4 and 5,1 GHz all Cores 

Asus BIOS SP 86 Rating 

CPU-Z


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> Greetings, great result! very impressive. But let me ask you? why you set tRAS <tRCD.
> This is not entirely logical in terms of processes in memory. I'm not sure that the motherboard has applied such a value.
> could you take a small test out of your configuration?
> for example run super pi on your settings and tras = tRCD + tRTP( 12) (the minimum possible tras in ddr5) . will there be a big difference?
> i'm just not sure if the motherboard really applied such a low tRC
> it should be tRCD + tRTP (12 nCK min for ddr5) + tRP = 37 + 12 + 37 = 86 (in your case)
> Perhaps APEX is a very smart motherboard and it fixes some timings?


its a rkl/adl thingy
gear 1 14, gear 2 28

but i can run 28-37-35-26..


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> its a rkl/adl thingy
> gear 1 14, gear 2 28
> 
> but i can run 28-37-35-26..


Does this thing make a profit?
If so, it is very good, but it is possible that the motherboard uses other values (correcting to the minimum possible). I'm just asking to check.


----------



## Groove2013

2500k_2 said:


> Does this thing make a profit?
> If so, it is very good, but it is possible that the motherboard uses other values (correcting to the minimum possible). I'm just asking to check.


Yes, more performance.
I run 3960 MHz (1:1) on 11900K with 14-15-15-*15*-229-2T no problems.
tRC reported is 30.


----------



## 2500k_2

Groove2013 said:


> Yes, more performance.
> I run 3960 MHz (1:1) on 11900K with 14-15-15-*15*-229-2T no problems.
> tRC reported is 30.


in your case tras = trcd
in case of safedisk tras <trcd


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> Does this thing make a profit?
> If so, it is very good, but it is possible that the motherboard uses other values (correcting to the minimum possible). I'm just asking to check.


49.3ns. 

atm i dont have adl working timings


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> in your case tras = trcd
> in case of safedisk tras <trcd


gear 2 tras 2x 
even on rkl. max 26-28


----------



## Groove2013

2500k_2 said:


> in your case tras = trcd
> in case of safedisk tras <trcd


Anyways, it works and brings constantly more megapixels in Aida64 PhotoWorxx.


----------



## sugi0lover

My friend just started binning 12900K.


----------



## anta777

Gear 2 or Gear 4 or Gear 1
tRASmin=tRCD+tRTP
for DDR5 tRASmin=tRCD+12


----------



## anta777

SimpleTable for DDR5 (first version)
simpletable2forDDR5.xlsx

Note to the table:
tCL can be set to any even from the interval 22-66,
tWR is a multiple of 6 from the interval 48-96,
tRTP to choose from 12,14,15,17,18,20,21,23,24,
CCDL select from the interval 8-16,
CCDLWR is always 4 times larger than CCDL, interval 32-64.


----------



## ThinbinJim

sugi0lover said:


> My friend just started binning 12900K.
> View attachment 2531308


I hope he has an Asus board and shares the SP and clock/voltage of each sample. Hard to tell how 12900K's clock now that SiliconLottery.com has closed down


----------



## sugi0lover

ThinbinJim said:


> I hope he has an Asus board and shares the SP and clock/voltage of each sample. Hard to tell how 12900K's clock now that SiliconLottery.com has closed down


He has Z690 Apex and will share SP.


----------



## iraff1

phillyman36 said:


> The rest of my things came yesterday. Put it all together. Love it so far though haven't had it up and running for long. Probably the only time my rig will be at full load is when I convert a video to dvd and that only takes like 5 to 10 minutes. Rest of the time I'm just on the internet or playing games like Fortnite and since I don't try to sustain high overclock I don't think my power consumption will be high all the time. The Amd is getting torn apart and gonna be sold. Microcenter has the 12700k on sale for 400 so after I get my car serviced I'm might grab one for a second rig. Just cant decide on if I should get a ddr4 board and use memory I had in the Amd rig(send my gskill ram back to Newegg) or if I should keep the gksill and grab a ddr5 board.
> 
> View attachment 2531287


Half your idle power draw is rgb


----------



## iraff1

safedisk said:


> View attachment 2531271
> 
> View attachment 2531272
> 
> View attachment 2531273
> 
> 
> Hynix Memory is a good choice for users who want performance
> so i like hynix
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX 1T 6600 30-37-37-28 1.48v
> 
> Aida64 Latency 49.3ns
> Geekbench3 Multi Memscore 13438


Very nice, but i read that Gskills 6400 MHZ Cl36 memory modules are built with samsung? 

From: https://www.gskill.com/community/15...ounces-Flagship-Trident-Z5-Family-DDR5-Memory


> *(13 October 2021)* – G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd., the world’s leading manufacturer of extreme performance memory and gaming peripherals, is thrilled to announce the newest extreme performance DDR5 memory, the *Trident Z5 RGB* and *Trident Z5* series, tailor-made for the upcoming next-gen Intel platform. Designed for flagship performance and engineered with high-quality, hand-screened memory ICs, the Trident Z5 family DDR5 memory kits will launch at speeds up to DDR5-6400. At the peak of the memory specification stack stands the ultra-low-latency *DDR5-6400 CL36-36-36-76 16GBx2* memory kit, constructed with high-performance *Samsung DDR5* memory IC


Are these not the same modules? Or will we have to play the silicone lottery with gskill ddr5 too where some are sk hynix and some are samsung?


----------



## 1devomer

pipeclock said:


> Because I missed 12900K, and new order has unknown delivery time, just sharing SP value of my 12700K which I was able to buy. Maybe it´s time to disable my 47 SP E-Cores lol. 72 SP for P-Cores is at least average I guess, considering it´s just 12700K. Anyway, overal SP 63 rating does not sound too much optimistic  Just playing with BIOS atm and trying to get familiar with the settings.


The lower SP maybe comes from the P-core 4 and 6 voltage.
If you look carefully, the internal voltage tables set these cores at 1.38v, instead 1.34v for the other cores.
It seems that half of the P-cores are better, than the other side half.

Please set us know how the cpu behave and overclock.



Falkentyne said:


> You guys need to start stress testing your so-called "dailies" in a real program. Stockfish chess engine on all threads.
> Let's watch your overclocks crash and burn.
> 
> Get the AVX2 version here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stockfish - Open Source Chess Engine
> 
> 
> Stockfish is a powerful and open source chess engine.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stockfishchess.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or you can get the BMI2 version on the development page under "Haswell" (no idea if BMI2 is harder than AVX2).
> Stockfish Development Versions ;Modern computers is the avx2 one
> 
> Then download Arena UCI client and install it. Then go to engine management and load the EXE for the engine in there directly.
> under the "Engines" menu.
> Then you need to configure the engine for more than 1 thread. You can save the parameters after.
> You can see the # of threads it's running on in the engine output area.
> Then you can activate, pause or deactivate the engine.
> 
> Prepare to get some clock watchdog timeouts.
> 
> 
> Arena Chess GUI


Can you guys grab some retail samples, to keep testing?
What is the daily you guys could get out with your QS sample?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

sugi0lover said:


> He has Z690 Apex and will share SP.


Tell him when he has sp100+. Pm me what he wants for the chip and I will pay.


----------



## carlhil2

I have everything but ram. won't get here til Wednesday. buzzkill. Lol.


----------



## Shawnb99

ThinbinJim said:


> I hope he has an Asus board and shares the SP and clock/voltage of each sample. Hard to tell how 12900K's clock now that SiliconLottery.com has closed down


As well as temps. Interested to see how hot the lower bins run as I'm unlucky and I know I'll end up with one


----------



## cstkl1

binning some retail next week. i find my ES weird. 0.85 sa for 6400c28/c30


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> binning some retail next week. i find my ES weird. 0.85 sa for 6400c28/c30


As always.. very impressive job getting freq that high with low timings


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> As always.. very impressive job getting freq that high with low timings


no its not i dont want it go up. auto = unstable

its one my issue for 6600.


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> no its not i dont want it go up. auto = unstable
> 
> its one my issue for 6600.


6400 c28 is pretty solid with beginner DDR5, imo! I'm sure you'll get it even higher. I'm glad we were right that it wouldn't be a repeat of DDR3->DDR4


----------



## obiwansotti

Is anyone getting legit P-Core overclocks? Can we force 1 core to 5.4?

Do we have to overclock all of them to because we don't have preferred cores?

Getting the most out of single threaded performance will be my main goal, but It doesn't seem like any of the reviews covered overclocking for ST performance.


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> 6400 c28 is pretty solid with beginner DDR5, imo! I'm sure you'll get it even higher. I'm glad we were right that it wouldn't be a repeat of DDR3->DDR4


i am not even using a kit.
just two sticks that has same xmp.
one even has led on it.


obiwansotti said:


> Is anyone getting legit P-Core overclocks? Can we force 1 core to 5.4?
> 
> Do we have to overclock all of them to because we don't have preferred cores?
> 
> Getting the most out of single threaded performance will be my main goal, but It doesn't seem like any of the reviews covered overclocking for ST performance.


@RobertoSampaio 
your que


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> i am not even using a kit.
> just two sticks that has same xmp.
> one even has led on it.


LOL .. ram OC god


----------



## SuperMumrik

Anyone got a link for a working asrock timing config? 😊


----------



## Carillo

Asus z690m Prime  it's not Apex, that's for damn sure


----------



## dante`afk

obiwansotti said:


> Is anyone getting legit P-Core overclocks? Can we force 1 core to 5.4?
> 
> Do we have to overclock all of them to because we don't have preferred cores?
> 
> Getting the most out of single threaded performance will be my main goal, but It doesn't seem like any of the reviews covered overclocking for ST performance.


read the other thread from @Falkentyne , you can set it up like 2x 54, 3x52 and 3x51


----------



## cstkl1

anta777 said:


> Gear 2 or Gear 4 or Gear 1
> tRASmin=tRCD+tRTP
> for DDR5 tRASmin=tRCD+12


maybe too blunt and spiteful... so atleast wont see anymore of this.


----------



## cstkl1

anta777 said:


> SimpleTable for DDR5 (first version)
> simpletable2forDDR5.xlsx
> 
> Note to the table:
> tCL can be set to any even from the interval 22-66,
> tWR is a multiple of 6 from the interval 48-96,
> tRTP to choose from 12,14,15,17,18,20,21,23,24,
> CCDL select from the interval 8-16,
> CCDLWR is always 4 times larger than CCDL, interval 32-64.


i would ignore this but hey up to u guys.


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> LOL .. ram OC god


nah. think something off with this cpu. gonna test vs retail


----------



## Groove2013

I would have disabled E cores and thus no problems with win 10 scheduler (no need for win 11), better P cores OC and ring bus and easier OC in general.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> I would have disabled E cores and thus no problems with win 10 scheduler (no need for win 11), better P cores OC and ring bus and easier OC in general.


thats for pure performance because of cache but dont underestimate that little fella. 

i can game now with almost no lost in fps while downloading some games in steam at 800mbps etc.


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> thats for pure performance because of cache but dont underestimate that little fella.
> 
> i can game now with almost no lost in fps while downloading some games in steam at 800mbps etc.


This is good - physically eliminates the possibility of background processes to run on P cores, interfering with games and thus resulting in lower FPS and higher and not so stable frametimes.
So no need to set affinity with Lasso for different stuff, to exclude from using same threads as games.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> This is good - physically eliminates the possibility of background processes to run on P cores, interfering with games and thus resulting in lower FPS and higher and not so stable frametimes.
> So no need to set affinity with Lasso for different stuff, to exclude from using same threads as games.


u loose the cache boost during this time though


----------



## Betroz

What we need know is a CPU with 16 P-cores and 16 E-cores running on a 5nm process....but that is probably like 3 years in the future, at least on the desktop plattform from Intel


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> u loose the cache boost during this time though


You mean the additional L2 of E cores?


----------



## Groove2013

Groove2013 said:


> This is good - physically eliminates the possibility of background processes to run on P cores, interfering with games and thus resulting in lower FPS and higher and not so stable frametimes.
> So no need to set affinity with Lasso for different stuff, to exclude from using same threads as games.


Unless a game uses E cores as well, in addition to P cores.


----------



## sniperpowa

Trying to find ram is beyond frustrating. I got two 12900k's and Apex yet I can't find ram anywhere.......


----------



## gtz

Betroz said:


> What we need know is a CPU with 16 P-cores and 16 E-cores running on a 5nm process....but that is probably like 3 years in the future, at least on the desktop plattform from Intel


Hopefully sapphire rapids brings this soon. That is what I'm waiting for to move on from X299. Once B&H gets some more stock I will be building a 12700K as my secondary system.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> You mean the additional L2 of E cores?


the cache boost on auto depends whether P core or E cores being loaded.


----------



## Falkentyne

So I downloaded Star Wars Jedi whatever it was (on Origin), loaded it no problem.
For Honor: Loaded it no problem.
SOTTR: loaded it no problem.

So what's up with that "so-called" compatibility chart?


----------



## TheSteez

Falkentyne said:


> So I downloaded Star Wars Jedi whatever it was (on Origin), loaded it no problem.
> For Honor: Loaded it no problem.
> SOTTR: loaded it no problem.
> 
> So what's up with that "so-called" compatibility chart?


I know that EA patched the starwars game the other day to make it work. Can't comment on the other games/companies but it looks like they did the same.


----------



## Groove2013

Falkentyne said:


> SOTTR: loaded it no problem.
> 
> So what's up with that "so-called" compatibility chart?


This


----------



## Frozburn

Found a pretty good test here


----------



## Falkentyne

Groove2013 said:


> This


I was under the impression that this was games crashing or refusing to load.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

Falkentyne said:


> So I downloaded Star Wars Jedi whatever it was (on Origin), loaded it no problem.
> For Honor: Loaded it no problem.
> SOTTR: loaded it no problem.
> 
> So what's up with that "so-called" compatibility chart?


I have seen by user crossbone HWL that at this point ac valhalla don´t work, see here, he is testing something.
Benchmarks - crossbone


----------



## Groove2013

Falkentyne said:


> I was under the impression that this was games crashing or refusing to load.


Probably also games having poor perf on win 11 with ADL in general or vs. Win 10.


----------



## napata

HyperMatrix said:


> That's only the conclusion at 1080p. Otherwise 1440p on average is higher fps. And I'd assume 4K would be the same. And all of this is with really really bad non-overclocked DDR5 memory. As others have posted here, huge gains are to be had from OC'ing your memory to reduce latency. There may be a case for DDR4 12900K. But not DDR4 11900K.


The conclusion is true for 1440p as well, unless I'm misreading the table? I wonder what's up with FC6's 1% lows on AL. I saw similar terrible 1% lows for it in another review.


----------



## gerardfraser

Well my moves continue to be bad. Got some parts and no bracket on 2 different AIO 360MM coolers.Time I get the brackets,AMD would have released there new CPU.I would even pay for overnight shipping on either CPU cooler.


----------



## Daniel M

Rebuilt with the Hero and 12900k. 

My Microcenter 12900k has SP 88 (Big SP 98 / Small SP 70).

Newegg 12900k has SP83 (Big SP 92 / Small SP 65).


----------



## HyperMatrix

napata said:


> The conclusion is true for 1440p as well, unless I'm misreading the table? I wonder what's up with FC6's 1% lows on AL. I saw similar terrible 1% lows for it in another review.


Well "technically" I wasn't lying. I was just looking at the average FPS numbers to make myself feel better. Haha. At 1080p the 11900k wins 5 out of 7 games. At 1440p the 12900k wins 4 out of 7. But yeah. 1% lows which are the most important are brutal across the board for the 12900k with slow DDR5 memory. I'm 100% confident that with the faster DDR5 memory releasing this year, the numbers will completely change. Once you get your DDR5 memory latency down to around 50ns, you should be well ahead of DDR4 in every metric.


----------



## Bilco

Anyone know any places where you can order DDR 5 currently or that might be receiving some in the near future?


----------



## sblantipodi

what about CPU temp?
What are the max tempat 240W with a 360mm AIO?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

sblantipodi said:


> what about CPU temp?
> What are the max tempat 240W with a 360mm AIO?



I Dont know if 12900k retail will be the same of QS... but...

What I can tell you is: Its not possible to compare the Watt/Temp of the 10900k and 11900k with ADL.

I guess the 10nm construction processes difficult the heat tranference.
But in the 12900k we are talking about high efficiency (processing power / watt)

200W on 10900K / 11900K is not as hot as on 12900K...
And 200 W on the 12900K is a lot of processing power.

Obviously I'm talking about real power (Vcore*AMPs)

For a processing power of 28,000 points at R-23 (about 200 W), temperatures are around 90°C in my QS sample. 
Vcore 1.16v - VRM 175A


----------



## sugi0lover

some samples posted in Korean PC community. Here are SPs of 12900K

made in China (4 samples) : 68, 71, 63, 66
made in Vietnam (6 samples) : 91, 92, 77, 86, 83, 90
dont't know (6 samples) : 93, 79, 84, 83, 90, 96
16 12900Ks of my friend's are all made in China, and he hasn't started binning yet.


----------



## Luggage

RobertoSampaio said:


> I Dont know if 12900k retail will be the same of QS... but...
> 
> What I can tell you is: Its not possible to compare the Watt/Temp of the 10900k and 11900k with ADL.
> 
> I guess the 10nm construction processes difficult the heat tranference.
> But in the 12900k we are talking about high efficiency (processing power / watt)
> 
> 200W on 10900K / 11900K is not as hot as on 12900K...
> And 200 W on the 12900K is a lot of processing power.
> 
> Obviously I'm talking about real power (Vcore*AMPs)
> 
> For a processing power of 28,000 points at R-23 (about 200 W), temperatures are around 90°C in my QS sample.


So it’s basically the “the 5800X is really hot”-problem. All the power in a very small area.


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> some samples posted in Korean PC community. Here are SPs of 12900K
> 
> made in China (4 samples) : 68, 71, 63, 66
> made in Vietnam (6 samples) : 91, 92, 77, 86, 83, 90
> dont't know (6 samples) : 93, 79, 84, 83, 90, 96
> 16 12900Ks of my friend's are all made in China, and he hasn't started binning yet.


china ones must see v/f. they tend to be weird. sp cannot be totally trusted.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Where can I check the individual sp rating? How can I check origin country of this one? 
Tnx 😊


----------



## sugi0lover

SuperMumrik said:


> Where can I check the individual sp rating? How can I check origin country of this one?
> Tnx 😊
> 
> 
> View attachment 2531364


V : China, X : Vietnam, L : Malaysia
Yours(V134....) , made in China, 2021 Week 34

and, only ASUS board can check SP rating.


----------



## SuperMumrik

sugi0lover said:


> and, only ASUS board can check SP rating.


Yeah, I know. I got an Strix-A D4 board atm, but I can't find individual sp rating for the P and E cores. There seems to only be an general SP rating (for both combined) in the main tab


----------



## sugi0lover

cstkl1 said:


> thats for pure performance because of cache but dont underestimate that little fella.
> 
> i can game now with almost no lost in fps while downloading some games in steam at 800mbps etc.


very good even for multi jobs~


----------



## sugi0lover

SuperMumrik said:


> Yeah, I know. I got an Strix-A D4 board atm, but I can't find individual sp rating for the P and E cores. There seems to only be an general SP rating (for both combined) in the main tab


Go to 'Extreme Tweaker\AI Features'


----------



## SuperMumrik

sugi0lover said:


> Go to 'Extreme Tweaker\AI Features'


You are awesome! Tnx! 
It says 98/75


----------



## Falkentyne

SuperMumrik said:


> You are awesome! Tnx!
> It says 98/75


Assuming this is SP89-91 global?


----------



## Groove2013

Stock CPUs with DDR4 3200 CL14.


----------



## sugi0lover

Falkentyne said:


> Assuming this is SP89-91 global?


I think this is how global SP calculated.
(P core SP 98 x 16 Threads + E core SP 75 x 8 Threads) / 24 Threads = SP 90


----------



## HyperMatrix

sugi0lover said:


> some samples posted in Korean PC community. Here are SPs of 12900K
> 
> made in China (4 samples) : 68, 71, 63, 66
> made in Vietnam (6 samples) : 91, 92, 77, 86, 83, 90
> dont't know (6 samples) : 93, 79, 84, 83, 90, 96
> 16 12900Ks of my friend's are all made in China, and he hasn't started binning yet.


Just bought 2 at a retail store. K and KF. Both Chinese. Guess I’m selling these without even opening.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Falkentyne said:


> Assuming this is SP89-91 global?


90 yes, but it's Chinese so it can't be trusted
@sugi0lover was spot on


----------



## roco_smith

Spiriva said:


> If you order a product online you have the right to "try it out", that means open the box and test it. Ofc its not very 'nice' to buy many cpus and open the boxes and look for the best, but you can.
> The shop will most likely sell the returned cpu´s etc in pre-builds so the customer who buys it will never know he got a 'used' cpu.


😪


----------



## SuperMumrik

Groove2013 said:


> Stock CPUs with DDR4 3200 CL14.


Hopefully I get my apex up and running next week. I will compare some canned benchmarks vs d4 4000c15 then

D4 gaming is surprisingly fast on adl btw


----------



## cstkl1

adl ram impact

2nd/3rd timings > tcl/twcl

frequency impact on latency
in rkl we noticed in gear 1 3866 | gear 2 5kc17 and above latency wont go down much going above this frequency

in adl latency is still scaling down even up to 6800. based on some SS seems so even at 7000.

RTL in asus boards you can set them by yourself.
you need to enabled rtl algo. learning rtl for your ram chipset tcl can help u overcome training for higher frequency clock / lower tcl etc.

cmd a difficult topic so i would concentrate on 2nd/third and frequency


----------



## Daniel M

Is Intel XTU working for anyone?

fails to start for me every time.


----------



## cstkl1

SuperMumrik said:


> Hopefully I get my apex up and running next week. I will compare some canned benchmarks vs d4 4000c15 then
> 
> D4 gaming is surprisingly fast on adl btw


remember 2nd/3rd timings + frequency



SuperMumrik said:


> 90 yes, but it's Chinese so it can't be trusted
> @sugi0lover was spot on


China u mean,
Chinese is race.

if its possible can we see your v/f?
5.3 | 43 is impressive


----------



## SuperMumrik

cstkl1 said:


> if its possible can we see your v/f?
> 5.3 | 43 is impressive


I'll grab a pic tomorrow.
Well.. As I said, it's not doable as dayli settings before I get a direct die block.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

For me It's not so easy to make e-cores run stable at 43x or higher....
You can do the flowing test...
Select win 11 economy power plan and restart.
Window will redirect load to the e-cores keeping p cores "unloaded"...
I can't boot into the windows with E42x and e-cores specific adaptive voltage < 1.35v.


----------



## sugi0lover

Another friend of mine bought 20 12900k and I will share SPs of his.


----------



## ThinbinJim

cstkl1 said:


> china ones must see v/f. they tend to be weird. sp cannot be totally trusted.


Asus Bios fix incoming for these chips? Or not fixable?


----------



## cstkl1

ThinbinJim said:


> Asus Bios fix incoming for these chips? Or not fixable?


the v/f is based on vid request for that particular cpu

the one not trusted is the factory in china where the cpu came out..
this is based on what happen with CML/RKL. we had incredible cpus that the sp said differently. and then we saw the v/f ..it was like some frequency had a weird vid that threw out the SP math weights.


----------



## ThinbinJim

cstkl1 said:


> the v/f is based on vid request for that particular cpu
> 
> the one not trusted is the factory in china where the cpu came out..
> this is based on what happen with CML/RKL. we had incredible cpus that the sp said differently. and then we saw the v/f it was like some frequency that had a weird vid that threw out the SP math weights.


Yikes, so the VID can be said to be overvolted on China chips? I hope at least the binning is comparable to MY, Vietnam or US

Edit: I see what you mean there
On standard 10900Ks, the 5.2ghz and 5.3ghz VID are the same values but on 'weird' 10900Ks, the 5.3ghz VID are higher than the 5.2ghz VID. This can make the weird 10900Ks have lower SPs.


----------



## GtiJason

safedisk said:


> View attachment 2531271
> 
> View attachment 2531272
> 
> 
> 
> Hynix Memory is a good choice for users who want performance
> so i like hynix
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX 1T 6600 30-37-37-28 1.48v
> 
> Aida64 Latency 49.3ns
> Geekbench3 Multi Memscore 13438




__
https://www.reddit.com/r/reactiongifs/comments/4be8a0


----------



## roooo

My current 12900k is a Chinese batch with SPs P94 and E68. Haven't done extensive testing, but running P-cores only at [email protected] in MS Flight Simulator Win10 worked out well so far. This is with DDR4 on Strix Gaming D4.


----------



## Majek

Hi, 

I missed the information on Chinese 10900k's reporting SP incorrectly. My new 12900k is a 'V' batch too. 

So are China-manufactured cpus somehow faulty or have inferior silicone quality based on historical CML/RTL data?


----------



## cstkl1

double post


----------



## cstkl1

Majek said:


> Hi,
> 
> I missed the information on Chinese 10900k's reporting SP incorrectly. My new 12900k is a 'V' batch too.
> 
> So are China-manufactured cpus somehow faulty or have inferior silicone quality based on historical CML/RTL data?


cml
vietnam had a famous SP63 that that could be anything
china ones for example you might have a bad vid 5.3 but a 5.1/4.8 vid that gave sp 100 run for its money

so china ones we tend to test more than just look at sp values. 

@SuperMumrik E core for example is incredible


----------



## Majek

cstkl1 said:


> cml
> vietnam had a famous SP63 that that could be anything
> china ones for example you might have a bad vid 5.3 but a 5.1/4.8 vid that gave sp 100 run for its money
> 
> so china ones we tend to test more than just look at sp values.
> 
> @SuperMumrik E core for example is incredible


OK, I see. Thanks a lot for the reply, Cstkl1! I won't be able to read SP anyway once my DDR5 sticks get here as I went with Gigabyte Aorus Master for the motherboard.

Thanks!


----------



## Benni231990

hello!

iam so confused my 12900k has a ring LLC Clock from 3600 underload when E and P cores are used and never boost to 4700 when i have AUTO in the bios and from my 9900k i now when you clock the cache higher you may get a few more fps

so what ring LLC clock you have? i tired 4400 but it isnt stable in games


----------



## SuperMumrik

cstkl1 said:


> if its possible can we see your v/f?











This RTL menu is not like CML at all
Can I have a crash course?


----------



## sugi0lover

SPs of 12900K my friend binned so far...

Made in China : 72, 71, 89
Made in Vietnam : 82, 88, 89, 90, 103


----------



## cstkl1

SuperMumrik said:


> View attachment 2531398
> 
> This RTL menu is not like CML at all
> Can I have a crash course?
> View attachment 2531400





SuperMumrik said:


> View attachment 2531398
> 
> This RTL menu is not like CML at all
> Can I have a crash course?
> View attachment 2531400


before that. pretty baller 1.56 mc voltage..


----------



## acoustic

Seems like usually chips made out of Vietnam always seem to have higher SP. Not just for ADL.

Will keep this in mind when HEDT comes out..


----------



## SuperMumrik

cstkl1 said:


> before that. pretty baller 1.56 mc voltage..


Yeah, that MC seems to go hand in hand with dram voltage..
Might be geared towards D5 voltages?
EDIT: And backed it down to 1.48 as I can't get 4kc14 going anyway


----------



## roooo

Done some first quick tests. Disabled E-cores as I probably won't need them anyway. Went with the HowTo by @Falkentyne and @RobertoSampaio in the other thread - thanks a Million for that! 

12900K SP85(94/68), Asus Strix-A Gaming D4, F4-3800C14D-32 @ 3600-16-16-16-36 (conservative).

BIOS:
Per-Core 54-54-54-53-53-51-51-51
TVB+2, Voltage Optimizations = enabled
Adaptive Voltage = 1.450
LLC = 1
AC-Loadline = 0.60
AC-Loadline = 1.70
Voltage Cap = 1.49

Win10 CB-R23 MT stable for 3 runs (21061) and ST stable for 1 run (2162), but didn't try any longer yet. Temps in MT won't go higher than 71C, in ST stayed below 66C, this is with an Alphacool Eisbaer Extreme + additional 420 rad at roughly 20C ambient.


----------



## Exilon

Isn't ASUS SP just based on the VID scaling burned into the chip at manufacture? Vietnam and China have no Intel fabs so it's the packaging and binning that's done there.

What are the WWs of the Chinese and Vietnam samples?


----------



## Bocraft

sugi0lover said:


> SPs of 12900K my friend binned so far...
> 
> Made in China : 72, 71, 89
> Made in Vietnam : 82, 88, 89, 90, 103
> 
> View attachment 2531404





sugi0lover said:


> SPs of 12900K my friend binned so far...
> 
> Made in China : 72, 71, 89
> Made in Vietnam : 82, 88, 89, 90, 103
> 
> View attachment 2531404


How much is the sp103 for sale? I'm interested. The price is negotiable


----------



## Talon2016

I've had 2 Chinese 12900K both from Newegg.

SP 86 and SP85.


----------



## Groove2013

So unfortunate one can't bin IMCs, due to DDR5 shortage and unavailability of very good DDR5.
Because it's RAM that will make the difference and not so much 100-200 MHz higher cores frequency.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

roooo said:


> Done some first quick tests. Disabled E-cores as I probably won't need them anyway. Went with the HowTo by @Falkentyne and @RobertoSampaio in the other thread - thanks a Million for that!
> 
> 12900K SP85(94/68), Asus Strix-A Gaming D4, F4-3800C14D-32 @ 3600-16-16-16-36 (conservative).
> 
> BIOS:
> Per-Core 54-54-54-53-53-51-51-51
> TVB+2, Voltage Optimizations = enabled
> Adaptive Voltage = 1.450
> LLC = 1
> AC-Loadline = 0.60
> AC-Loadline = 1.70
> Voltage Cap = 1.49
> 
> Win10 CB-R23 MT stable for 3 runs (21061) and ST stable for 1 run (2162), but didn't try any longer yet. Temps in MT won't go higher than 71C, in ST stayed below 66C, this is with an Alphacool Eisbaer Extreme + additional 420 rad at roughly 20C ambient.
> 
> View attachment 2531423



Enable the e cores 42x4 41x6 40x8

And try to run +2 boost octvb profile.


----------



## fray_bentos

cstkl1 said:


> remember 2nd/3rd timings + frequency
> 
> 
> China u mean,
> Chinese is race.
> 
> if its possible can we see your v/f?
> 5.3 | 43 is impressive


No. Chinese means a person OR thing from China. Native English speaker.


----------



## Carillo

12900K tray, Vietnam edition! Asus Prime don't share SP rating, so guess i find out next week when Apex arrives


----------



## SuperMumrik

Did some DDR4 benches on my 12900k to make some comparisons when I get DDR5 sticks
All games tested with highest preset (100% res scale, etc)

Updated with 8/16 vs 16/24 also 






ADL D4 vs D5 tråden


Sikkert mange som lurer på om de skal gå for DDR4 ettersom det er kul umulig å få tak i (skikklige) D5 brikker. Får forhåpentligvis DDR5 brikker ila neste uke slik at jeg kan gjøre en rask sammenligning. Test setup med Stock win 11 pro fra z490: 12900k(8c/16t)@5.3Ghz / 5Ghz ring 16GB [email protected] 3...



www.diskusjon.no


----------



## fortecosi

12700K, just basic CPU-Z Bench, OCTVB +1, XMP. I like the performance!


----------



## sugi0lover

Bocraft said:


> How much is the sp103 for sale? I'm interested. The price is negotiable


No for sale. He is going to keep it.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

sugi0lover said:


> No for sale. He is going to keep it.


Everything has a price.


----------



## ldt

cstkl1 said:


> View attachment 2531084
> 
> 
> aida bug. lol
> 
> also bclk 200 is stable


Can you share me BIOS 0096 for the Apex , Thank You !


----------



## Bocraft

sugi0lover said:


> No for sale. He is going to keep it.


2500 usd ok？


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Bocraft said:


> 2500 usd ok？


He probably asks for 5200 usd.


----------



## BattlePhenom

This guy is hitting 5.5ghz on most of his P-cores. His SP is 93.


----------



## cstkl1

ldt said:


> Can you share me BIOS 0096 for the Apex , Thank You !


0702 is the final version of it. 0096 just a bugfix bios of a older bios.


----------



## ldt

cstkl1 said:


> 0702 is the final version of it. 0096 just a bugfix bios of a older bios.


Thank you !


----------



## RobertoSampaio

BattlePhenom said:


> This guy is hitting 5.5ghz on most of his P-cores. His SP is 93.


Mine is SP91
3 cores 5.8Ghz
8 cores 5.7GHz

😜


----------



## BattlePhenom

RobertoSampaio said:


> Mine is SP91
> 3 cores 5.8Ghz
> 8 cores 5.7GHz
> 
> 😜
> 
> View attachment 2531456


Very nice! You really have to throw a lot of voltage at it though. Is that 5.7ghz all core w/ E-cores enabled and is that on a custom loop?


----------



## ViTosS

RobertoSampaio said:


> Mine is SP91
> 3 cores 5.8Ghz
> 8 cores 5.7GHz
> 
> 😜
> 
> View attachment 2531456


Now run some Cinebench R23 to see if you can mantain 5.7Ghz all P-Cores stable.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

BattlePhenom said:


> This guy is hitting 5.5ghz on most of his P-cores. His SP is 93.





BattlePhenom said:


> Very nice! You really have to throw a lot of voltage at it though. Is that 5.7ghz all core w/ E-cores enabled and is that on a custom loop?


No, this is not for full load...
It's like the video you posted...
By core usage and OCTVB.
No need a custom loop for this...


----------



## ViTosS

RobertoSampaio said:


> No, this is not for full load...
> It's like the video you posted...
> By core usage and OCTVB.
> No need a custom loop for this...


Have you tried sync all cores or something like that during full load? How far did you get with your sample and AF 420mm? I mean, what minimum full load voltage you need for let's say 5.0 or 5.1Ghz all cores? And how are the temperatures? I'm curious to that because I saw a guy playing Warzone all stock with an ROG AIO 360mm and the temps were 75-82c just gaming stock lol


----------



## sugi0lover

A little more detail of Sp103


----------



## RobertoSampaio

ViTosS said:


> Have you tried sync all cores or something like that during full load? How far did you get with your sample and AF 420mm? I mean, what minimum full load voltage you need for let's say 5.0 or 5.1Ghz all cores? And how are the temperatures? I'm curious to that because I saw a guy playing Warzone all stock with an ROG AIO 360mm and the temps were 75-82c just gaming stock lol


Full load (R-23)
P-51x / E-40x @ Vcore = 1.15v ~200W
Core temps ~90C


----------



## sugi0lover

One of the best daily ocers I know posted his first 12900K result.
impressive with the cheapest ddr5 ram kits.

Dram 6200, 1.35v VDDQ 1.2


----------



## Nizzen

Bocraft said:


> 2500 usd ok？


Why not buy 100 cpu's yourself


----------



## CallMeODZ

Nizzen said:


> Why not buy 100 cpu's yourself



need a forklift to carry the pallet of cpus to return to amazon


----------



## cstkl1

Bocraft said:


> 2500 usd ok？


....


----------



## Bocraft

Nizzen said:


> Why not buy 100 cpu's yourself


Haha, My friend receives about 500 12900K Oems every week, and 4% of the cpus are larger than 91SP，One of the best cpus in this week's 500 has an SP of 99.


----------



## Bocraft

cstkl1 said:


> sp 100 u want 2.5k usd?


103sp Or higher


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Curious why people are willing to pay so much for a high SP processor. Is it about being the best?


----------



## sugi0lover

Bocraft said:


> Haha, My friend receives about 500 12900K Oems every week, and 4% of the cpus are larger than 91SP，One of the best cpus in this week's 500 has an SP of 99.


The post about Dram 6200, 1.35v VDDQ 1.2 is also another SP103 12900K. I already saw two 103 SPs.


----------



## cstkl1

sp 93 retail vietnam X131U835


----------



## iraff1

can someone explain why sp matters at all? is there some kind of warranty that the cpu will overclock good based on the sp value?


----------



## nievz

Any feedback on the Z690 Aorus Master? Seems to be as good in terms of hardware as other $600+ competitors.


----------



## cstkl1

iraff1 said:


> can someone explain why sp matters at all? is there some kind of warranty that the cpu will overclock good based on the sp value?


its just a indicator. not a certainty . just gives higher probability.


----------



## sugi0lover

It seems like DDR4 Gear 1 4000+ is a lot easier with 12th Gen.
This guy couldn't even boot 3866Mhz before and now he is at 4100Mhz with the same Gskill 4000 CL15 Ram kit.


----------



## Carillo

sugi0lover said:


> One of the best daily ocers I know posted his first 12900K result.
> impressive with the cheapest ddr5 ram kits.
> 
> Dram 6200, 1.35v VDDQ 1.2
> View attachment 2531467
> 
> 
> View attachment 2531468
> 
> 
> View attachment 2531469


Nice! What ram kit is this ?


----------



## sugi0lover

Carillo said:


> Nice! What ram kit is this ?


It's Hynix DDR5 4800 Cl40 basic kit.


----------



## MaghX

What about typical SP range for i5 and i7?


----------



## Carillo

Anyone tried the KF552C40BBK2-32 Kingston Hyper beast 5200 cl40 ? Micron or Hynix ? Receiving a kit this week. Only kit available in Norway right now


----------



## sugi0lover

Another friend of mine binned 20 12900ks all made in china.
89,89,88,87,86,86, and all other 13 he doesn't even want to mention SPs.


----------



## Majek

sugi0lover said:


> Another friend of mine binned 20 12900ks all made in china.
> 89,89,88,87,86,86, and all other 13 he doesn't even want to mention SPs.


So the remaining 13 were so bad that he did not want to bother providing the SPs?


----------



## therealjustin

Any word on binned i7's and their SP? Every 12700K I have seen is V batch, including my own.


----------



## nievz

sugi0lover said:


> Another friend of mine binned 20 12900ks all made in china.
> 89,89,88,87,86,86, and all other 13 he doesn't even want to mention SPs.


where do they see the SP? On the box? Or do they have to boot up each one?


----------



## Carillo

nievz said:


> where do they see the SP? On the box? Or do they have to boot up each one?


you need Asus Strix or Maximus to see SP rating in bios


----------



## Majek

nievz said:


> where do they see the SP? On the box? Or do they have to boot up each one?


They need to boot them up on Asus main boards which use Silicone Prediction algorithm. 

@sugi0lover - can your friend shed light on the lowest SP he's seen? I won't return mine as I've already opened the box, plus with my luck even if I got a Vietnamese batch it would be worse than my Chinese one. 

I am just hoping people like Falkentyne or cstkl1 will come up with the way of predicting bins based on Vids for non-Asus boards like in the past.


----------



## coolice

Carillo said:


> Anyone tried the KF552C40BBK2-32 Kingston Hyper beast 5200 cl40 ? Micron or Hynix ? Receiving a kit this week. Only kit available in Norway right now


Micron
Hynix/Samsung are holding up for binning by dram module maker I believe


----------



## cstkl1

Majek said:


> They need to boot them up on Asus main boards which use Silicone Prediction algorithm.
> 
> @sugi0lover - can your friend shed light on the lowest SP he's seen? I won't return mine as I've already opened the box, plus with my luck even if I got a Vietnamese batch it would be worse than my Chinese one.
> 
> I am just hoping people like Falkentyne or cstkl1 will come up with the way of predicting bins based on Vids for non-Asus boards like in the past.


intel binned the 12900ks pretty tight. 

basically what u see is what u get


----------



## Majek

cstkl1 said:


> intel binned the 12900ks pretty tight.
> 
> basically what u see is what u get


Yup, but I am on Aorus Master, so no SP. 
Or do you mean that just checking how far the chip actually oc's is the only way to check on non-asus boards?


----------



## sugi0lover

Majek said:


> So the remaining 13 were so bad that he did not want to bother providing the SPs?


From 79 to below 85


----------



## Majek

sugi0lover said:


> From 79 to below 85


Thank you!


----------



## Benni231990

Carillo said:


> Anyone tried the KF552C40BBK2-32 Kingston Hyper beast 5200 cl40 ? Micron or Hynix ? Receiving a kit this week. Only kit available in Norway right now


i have the kingston kit and i could overclock it to 5600 with CL36-39-39-60 with 1,35v

but i have zero experience with DDR5 overclock i only set the VDD voltage to 1,35 and set 5600 thats it can anybody share his bios settings for his DDR5 overclock maybe my ram is getting higher when i set other options in the bios


----------



## Carillo

coolice said:


> Micron
> Hynix/Samsung are holding up for binning by dram module maker I believe


Do you


Benni231990 said:


> i have the kingston kit and i could overclock it to 5600 with CL36-39-39-60 with 1,35v
> 
> but i have zero experience with DDR5 overclock i only set the VDD voltage to 1,35 and set 5600 thats it can anybody share his bios settings for his DDR5 overclock maybe my ram is getting higher when i set other options in the bios


Thanks! What motherboard ? Can you please screen shot CPU-z SPD ?


----------



## Benni231990

i have a STRIX F and yes is make stability test and full gaming test no errors or bluescreens


----------



## Carillo

Carillo said:


> Do you
> 
> 
> Thanks! What motherboard ? Did you stability test it ?





Benni231990 said:


> i have a STRIX F and yes is make stability test and full gaming test no errors or bluescreens
> 
> View attachment 2531494


Thanks  have you tried higher voltages ? If it scales ?


----------



## Benni231990

yes i tried 1,43 but no boot with higher as 5600

so i dont now my ram cant any more or i must set a new option in the bios or change something additionally


----------



## Carillo

Benni231990 said:


> yes i tried 1,43 but no boot with higher as 5600
> 
> so i dont now my ram cant any more or i must set a new option in the bios or change something additionally


 Thanks for the info. I will receive this kit and Apex this week. So I will for sure try everything 😂 will keep you all updated


----------



## ThinbinJim

Finally got mine installed - China chip produced week 35
Average SPs but I can live with that


----------



## sugi0lover

Mr. Jeon, the great daily ocer, shared his ram oc 6200 CL28 with his hynix 4800 CL40 ram kit.

- VDD : 1.42v , VDDQ : 1.2v , MC :1.12v


----------



## anta777

a lot of timing errors


----------



## sugi0lover

anta777 said:


> a lot of timing errors


Then, your help fixing them will be appreciated. DDR5 is new to us anyway.


----------



## acoustic

Pretty good latency, imo, for 6200 28-36-36. You guys are doing great stuff with DDR5!


----------



## Nizzen

anta777 said:


> a lot of timing errors


But hey, it works 😁

I need to learn DDr5, so I can't wait for some D5 tips from you 
I have Dominator 5200...


----------



## anta777

*sugi0lover*
My first simpletest for DDR5:
simpletable2forDDR5.xlsx

Note to the table:
tCL can be set to any even from the interval 22-66,
tWR is a multiple of 6 from the interval 48-96,
tRTP to choose from 12,14,15,17,18,20,21,23,24,
CCDL select from the interval 8-16,
CCDLWR is always 2 times larger than CCDL, interval 16-32,
CCDLWR2 is always 4 times larger than CCDL, interval 32-64
WRWRsg (in bios)=CCDLWR , but not CCDLWR2.
In Jedec (JESD79-5A) p.44 typo.

tRASmin for DDR5=tRCD+tRTP, tRTPmin=12
tRASmin=tRCD+12 !!!!
,


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> Then, your help fixing them will be appreciated. DDR5 is new to us anyway.


the great ram ocer used the 6200 preset
and mod it abit
which still loose in some areas.


----------



## safedisk

0451 said:


> Thank you for sharing! If you don’t mind my asking, which kits have you played with and how do they compare?


Hello
This kit is xmp 6000


----------



## fortecosi

Guys please, if I use just OCTVB +1 profile, do I need to adjust Vcore or some else voltage manually according to it, or may I just left the voltage on auto?


----------



## safedisk

iraff1 said:


> Very nice, but i read that Gskills 6400 MHZ Cl36 memory modules are built with samsung?
> 
> From: https://www.gskill.com/community/15...ounces-Flagship-Trident-Z5-Family-DDR5-Memory
> 
> 
> Are these not the same modules? Or will we have to play the silicone lottery with gskill ddr5 too where some are sk hynix and some are samsung?


Maybe we can distinguish it by the memory spec haha


----------



## safedisk

ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX DDR5 OC

6400 1T 30-38-38-28 Performance Good Setting
VDD VDDQ 1.435v
NO heatsink MB use so vrm and pch hot

SK HYNIX Green Power


----------



## shamino1978

fortecosi said:


> Guys please, if I use just OCTVB +1 profile, do I need to adjust Vcore or some else voltage manually according to it, or may I just left the voltage on auto?


the pt of tvb boost is to trade temp for voltage, so that you boost by having the right temp and not by adding voltage.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

fortecosi said:


> Guys please, if I use just OCTVB +1 profile, do I need to adjust Vcore or some else voltage manually according to it, or may I just left the voltage on auto?


Read this... Tell me if you not understand...









ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...


Disclaimer ! These settings and methods are outside Intel's specifications, just like any other overclocking method. ---------------------------------------------------- For Z790/13900K click here Introduction: In a world increasingly concerned with natural resources, the watchword is...




www.overclock.net


----------



## cstkl1

initial impression vietnan retail is NUTS.

prime avx off stable 5.1 = [email protected] LLC4
so if yours is 1.299
set 1.3 LLc4 vmin 1.1v for 5.1

5.3 cb23 vmin 1.24
5.2 cb23 vmin 1.16-1.16
the cpu vmin of retail adl cpu makes cml vmin a joke.

also now my sa working properly

ES cpu like an alien cpu in comparison


----------



## rulik006

safedisk said:


> SK HYNIX Green Power


Hynix for now doing better than Samsung, impressive
Interesting, how good will be binned ic's


----------



## cstkl1

rulik006 said:


> Hynix for now doing better than Samsung, impressive
> Interesting, how good will be binned ic's


ddr5
second/third timings more important


----------



## ThinbinJim

ThinbinJim said:


> View attachment 2531495
> 
> 
> Finally got mine installed - China chip produced week 35
> Average SPs but I can live with that


So I've been playing around with the 12900k in a 8c/16t (no E-cores) to compare against my old 9900ks.
This CPU is a pretty fun overclocker. It puts my KS to shame in terms of v/f curve - in prime95 smallfft avx2, it runs on a measly 1.13v at 5ghz, and with a ring of 4.7ghz no less!  Though I have to add that the chip is really leaky. It pulls about 15% more power (205W Vs 240W package power with a calibrated DC loadline) at the same load voltage as the KS in p95. Temps are barely under control despite this, probably because the intel lapped the die even further on 12th gen. Thankfully, the 12900K is significantly more efficient in real-world avx loads that don't hammer the L1 and cores.
Also, this is not new information; the stock vf curve is set-up to be very aggressive to accommodate the vdroop caused by E-cores. After turning off the E-cores it is possible to run 0.01mOhm AC Loadline and still be able to run smallfft avx2 at stock LLC 3 (Asus, 1.10mOhm), at 5ghz. Basically, there's a lot of undervolting or overclocking headroom once the E-cores are turned off.


----------



## Falkentyne

ThinbinJim said:


> So I've been playing around with the 12900k in a 8c/16t (no E-cores) to compare against my old 9900ks.
> This CPU is a pretty fun overclocker. It puts my KS to shame in terms of v/f curve - in prime95 smallfft avx2, it runs on a measly 1.13v, and with a ring of 4.7ghz no less!  Though I have to add that the chip is really leaky. It pulls about 15% more power at the same load voltage as the KS. Temps are barely under control despite this, probably because the intel lapped the die even further on 12th gen.
> Also, this is not new information; the stock vf curve is set-up to be very aggressive to accommodate the vdroop caused by E-cores. After turning off the E-cores it is possible to run 0.01mOhm AC Loadline and still be able to run smallfft avx2 at stock LLC 3 (Asus, 1.10mOhm). Basically, there's a lot of undervolting or overclocking headroom once the E-cores are turned off.


You didn't give us the core clocks...


----------



## ThinbinJim

Falkentyne said:


> You didn't give us the core clocks...


I've edited my post


----------



## SuperMumrik

Finally..







New vs old


----------



## cstkl1

SuperMumrik said:


> Finally..
> View attachment 2531554
> 
> New vs old
> View attachment 2531555


btw i feel current apex pcb is thicker. do u?


----------



## SuperMumrik

cstkl1 said:


> btw i feel current apex pcb is thicker. do u?


Both are 1.64mm ish, but there are some small variations around the pcb


----------



## Nizzen

Mr. Bin 😅


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Nizzen said:


> Mr. Bin 😅


I was thinking to buy these memories....


----------



## Nikos4Life

😍 but no RAM 😅


----------



## sblantipodi

is there someone who was able to build a 12900K rig and can tell me what temp to expect with a 360mm?
should I expect 90°C without overclock as many reviewers shown?


----------



## sblantipodi

RobertoSampaio said:


> I Dont know if 12900k retail will be the same of QS... but...
> 
> What I can tell you is: Its not possible to compare the Watt/Temp of the 10900k and 11900k with ADL.
> 
> I guess the 10nm construction processes difficult the heat tranference.
> But in the 12900k we are talking about high efficiency (processing power / watt)
> 
> 200W on 10900K / 11900K is not as hot as on 12900K...
> And 200 W on the 12900K is a lot of processing power.
> 
> Obviously I'm talking about real power (Vcore*AMPs)
> 
> For a processing power of 28,000 points at R-23 (about 200 W), temperatures are around 90°C in my QS sample.
> Vcore 1.16v - VRM 175A


this means that this CPU can't be used even without OC.
if you hit 90°C in the winter, it will throttle on summer.

I'm sad for this, already ordered a 12900K


----------



## cstkl1

sblantipodi said:


> this means that this CPU can't be used even without OC.
> if you hit 90°C in the winter, it will throttle on summer.
> 
> I'm sad for this, already ordered a 12900K


?? 
gaming the temps and power are low. lower than rkl/cml


----------



## Nikos4Life

Does anybody knows if the EK DELTA TEC 2.0 works with Alder Lake? (1700).

if it works maybe it could be a thing to get this little beast some cool moments 😅


----------



## cstkl1

what happen to msi/giga?? all dead?
ace, godlike, unify , unify X
no oc result from both

asrock and evga given . small guys. might close shop tommorow. but the other two?


----------



## cstkl1

Nikos4Life said:


> Does anybody knows if the EK DELTA TEC 2.0 works with Alder Lake? (1700).
> 
> if it works maybe it could be a thing to get this little beast some cool moments 😅


octvb works superbly on adl. so yes u can use it for gaming since gaming loads are very low.


----------



## cstkl1

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/qoyph7


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/qoyph7


Imagine buying anything else than Asus MB for 12900k 😜


----------



## phillyman36

sblantipodi said:


> is there someone who was able to build a 12900K rig and can tell me what temp to expect with a 360mm?
> should I expect 90°C without overclock as many reviewers shown?


the highest i have ever seen my 12900k go is 70c when converting a video. Im using a Galahad aio 360. Temps are fine under normal usage.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Why not test different brands? Then we can compare notes. Or you can be boring and only buy Asus.


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> Why not test different brands? Then we can compare notes. Or you can be boring and only buy Asus.


the simplest answer y change bracket etc? 

y be stupid to buy mobos that cant even get the mounting holes to support older cooler??


----------



## geriatricpollywog

cstkl1 said:


> the simplest answer y change bracket etc?
> 
> y be stupid to buy mobos that cant even get the mounting holes to support older cooler??


Does Asus have different mounting holes than other brands? I plan on getting a DDR4 board and reusing my Optimus and EK blocks. If Asus is the only board compatible then I’ll get a Strix.


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> Does Asus have different mounting holes than other brands? I plan on getting a DDR4 board and reusing my Optimus and EK blocks. If Asus is the only board compatible then I’ll get a Strix.


can just use back your old cooler. bracket also. 

dude its time to unleash ure ek delta X evo


----------



## geriatricpollywog

cstkl1 said:


> can just use back your old cooler. bracket also.
> 
> dude its time to unleash ure ek delta X evo


Waiting for a 200w Intel CPU. Like that’s ever going to happen 😂


----------



## morph.

sblantipodi said:


> this means that this CPU can't be used even without OC.
> if you hit 90°C in the winter, it will throttle on summer.
> 
> I'm sad for this, already ordered a 12900K


Completely different workload scenarios.. the 90degrees that tech tubers hit was full load 100% stress test it's not what "normal" use case people will have for things such as games... Unless perhaps you are running 1080p res. But even then I'll go out on a limb and say you won't be flat-lining all the cores on the 12900k for gaming to output that much heat on the cpu.

If you look back on previous iterations of 11900k/10900k they all do hit 90 degrees with max stress test work loads or rendering/encoding.


----------



## morph.

cstkl1 said:


> can just use back your old cooler. bracket also.
> 
> dude its time to unleash ure ek delta X evo


Agreed that the asus mobo sockets holes are nicely backwards compatible.

However, I have a Velocity 2 on order. I believe the contact will be a bit more optimal and the situated cooling engine of the cold plate will be more optimally designed for the architect/die placement under the IHS of the 12900k and or even the curvature of the 12900k's IHS without the need of lapping it.


----------



## Spiriva

12900k, z690 hero, sp88


----------



## Hiikeri

iraff1 said:


> can someone explain why sp matters at all? is there some kind of warranty that the cpu will overclock good based on the sp value?


It doesnt, It wont actually matter when OCing and its only placebo from Asus MB owners.. 

Never believed that 2021 someones still chasing them until i see these pseudo chasers on this thread... :/

SP is only calculated from CPU stock VID -voltage and has nothing to do how good or bad is prosessor to overclock, and i tell later why.

Yes, high SP rank CPU only needs lower voltage on default ja overclocking and of course, it wont make so much heat = lower temperature.

And then we go to the facts,
lower VID means that silicon has less voltage "leaking" when power switches on the chip and after that it must be move out from cores (=heat) to IHS and from chip point of view its harder with less "leaking" silicone, getting rid off from heat.

"Better/more solid silicone" keeps a heat more or less more inside core.

Vice versa, when silicone is weaker (VID is higher) then CPU is easier to release its temperature load ja for us, users, its easier to keep CPU temp at lower levels.

For that reason some low SP rank processors overclocking better than high SP rank processors when using max Cpu usage apps like an Prime95 or AVX XTU for stability test.

LN2 or He benchmarking is different story becouse they can suck all temp from Cpu.

But with +Celsius+ cooling solutions, Air/Water there is no reason to chase, has ever needed to find Cpu /w high SP rank.

Why any other Mobo manufactures wont add similar measuring system to their MBs? Marketing absolutely will love it? More nice marketing lines... 

'Cause its pointless thing, sad to see that Asus still uses it on theirs MBs...so childish...Plz, someone send a email to Asus CEO on that great marketing engineer work.

2500usd SP103+. 😂

My 12900K is now on local post office, if my chip are ~SP150 i can sell it 1500usd or change it to 2pcs 12900K what-ever their mystic SP rank is, even at 70 is totally accepted.


----------



## satinghostrider

0451 said:


> Why not test different brands? Then we can compare notes. Or you can be boring and only buy Asus.


Maybe people don't wanna take a risk with surprises? Asus have been generally very stable out of the box. Community driven testing means problems gets solved faster because more people are involved pushing and using the platform. The last thing you want is sitting on a problem you can't solve on launch day with no one knowing what's the cause. It's different with Asus because people can test and if there is really an issue, there is an avenue for it to be relayed to Asus quickly and a fix will be imminent.


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> what happen to msi/giga?? all dead?
> ace, godlike, unify , unify X
> no oc result from both
> 
> asrock and evga given . small guys. might close shop tommorow. but the other two?


they don't seem to be available. I don't see any of the good boards from MSI on the market or available to purchase - only backorder. Only boards I see are the low-end MPG Carbon etc ; equivalent to the STRIX boards.


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> Waiting for a 200w Intel CPU. Like that’s ever going to happen 😂


its a gaming cpu. the power on this is in gaming is arnd or less than cml. 200w is plenty for 5.3-5.5ghz all core gaming (depends on silicon lottery )


----------



## cstkl1

acoustic said:


> they don't seem to be available. I don't see any of the good boards from MSI on the market or available to purchase - only backorder. Only boards I see are the low-end MPG Carbon etc ; equivalent to the STRIX boards.


something odd happening right. msi and giga are day 1 aib competing with asus.

and this time asus has all boards launched day 1.

its like they got caught unawares msi especially and was doing soft launch or something.

giga we have all their boards except tachy on day 1. maybe the cooler support is their problem


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> something odd happening right. msi and gig are day 1 aib competing with asus.
> 
> and this time asus has all boards launched day 1.
> 
> its like they got caught unawares msi especially and was doing soft launch or something.
> 
> giga we have all their boards except tachy on day 1.


yeah it's strange. I'm not sure how MSI did for Z590, but I stand by my Z490 ACE - great board and it's been a great overclocker .. really well built. not perfect, but no mobo is.

hopefully they get their stuff out. The MEG ACE packs a really good value purchase vs the APEX.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Spiriva said:


> 12900k, z690 hero, sp88
> 
> View attachment 2531622


I think with a max core VID of 1.501 you can go to 5,600MHz with a SP88...


----------



## Arni90

Hiikeri said:


> It doesnt, It wont actually matter when OCing and its only placebo from Asus MB owners..
> 
> Never believed that 2021 someones still chasing them until i see these pseudo chasers on this thread... :/
> 
> For that reason some low SP rank processors overclocking better than high SP rank processors when using max Cpu usage apps like an Prime95 or AVX XTU for stability test.


I've always had the impression that improving the cooling will have a greater impact on my overclocking results than aiming for a super-binned chip, and a MO-RA3 always seems to put me in the top end of performance, even if I'm not at the absolute top.

As for SP-rating, my 11900K dropped down to 78 from 84 with the latest 1202 BIOS for the M13 Apex. It still overclocks the same


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> something odd happening right. msi and giga are day 1 aib competing with asus.
> 
> and this time asus has all boards launched day 1.
> 
> its like they got caught unawares msi especially and was doing soft launch or something.
> 
> giga we have all their boards except tachy on day 1. maybe the cooler support is their problem


And Gigabyte launched one of their Z690 boards with an _AUGUST_ beta bios, that didn't support NVME drives...

Yikes...


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/qoyph7


----------



## D-EJ915

Falkentyne said:


> And Gigabyte launched one of their Z690 boards with an _AUGUST_ beta bios, that didn't support NVME drives...
> 
> Yikes...
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/qoyph7


evga behaviour lol

newegg also has apex in stock again


----------



## dante`afk

newegg has the apex in stock ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Apex (WiFi 6E) LGA 1700 (Intel 12th Gen) ATX Gaming Motherboard (PCIe 5.0, DDR5, 24+0 Power Stages, DDR5, 5x M.2, 1x PCIe 5.0 M.2, PCIe 5.0 Hyper M.2 Card Bundled) - Newegg.com


----------



## geriatricpollywog

dante`afk said:


> newegg has the apex in stock ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 Apex (WiFi 6E) LGA 1700 (Intel 12th Gen) ATX Gaming Motherboard (PCIe 5.0, DDR5, 24+0 Power Stages, DDR5, 5x M.2, 1x PCIe 5.0 M.2, PCIe 5.0 Hyper M.2 Card Bundled) - Newegg.com


This board NEEDS a dual bios switch considering how often Asus releases hotfixes.


----------



## fortecosi

Hiikeri said:


> Why any other Mobo manufactures wont add similar measuring system to their MBs? Marketing absolutely will love it? More nice marketing lines...
> 
> 'Cause its pointless thing, sad to see that Asus still uses it on theirs MBs...so childish...Plz, someone send a email to Asus CEO on that great marketing engineer work.


Actually MSI has implemented some sort of the measuring system to "tell" bad, average and good silikon quality. At least I saw it in a MSI Z690 MB release video posted here.


----------



## BattlePhenom

For a second I saw the "V" and thought "Nice! Vietnam." Oh well.

Now I need Mobo and some Trident Z5.

Does anyone know if Asus is selling LGA 1700 brackets/adapters for Ryujin 360?


----------



## cstkl1

[email protected] Retail - 53|42
2x16gb 6400C30-37-37-28-1T 280

3dmark PR - 13224








I scored 13 224 in Port Royal


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 x 1, 32614 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com





3dmark TS - 20704 (20353 | 22947)








I scored 20 704 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 x 1, 32614 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## HyperMatrix

D-EJ915 said:


> evga behaviour lol
> 
> newegg also has apex in stock again


Unfortunately they’re still keeping my Canadian preorder as a preorder. Guess they didn’t like that shipping was just $11 when I ordered vs. their new price of $34. Probably hoping we cancel our preorders.


----------



## Kana Chan

0451 said:


> Waiting for a 200w Intel CPU. Like that’s ever going to happen 😂


 EK has a new one coming out on November 10 that supports 250W ( version 1 was only 200W )


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Kana Chan said:


> EK has a new one coming out on November 10 that supports 250W ( version 1 was only 200W )


Link? I already have the new EVO which is actually only 200w. I tried to return due to false advertising since the website claims “50w more of cooling power” but EK didn’t understand my English so I gave up.


----------



## Kana Chan

EK-QuantumX Delta TEC EVO - Copper + Nickel


EK-QuantumX Delta TEC EVO is the 2nd generation of cryo-cooling water block that is made in collaboration with Intel®. It is a unique cooling solution for enthusiasts who are seeking consistent system performance and ultimate overclocking on unlocked 11th and 10th Gen Intel® Core™ desktop...




www.ekwb.com






> EK-QuantumX Delta TEC EVO is the 2nd generation of cryo-cooling water block that is made in collaboration with Intel®. It brings in further improvements to the design, most notably an even more powerful TEC plate allowing over 50W more of cooling power. The TEC plate is now soldered to the bottom of the water block that goes over the CPU, improving contact and transfer of cooling to the block and eventually the CPU.


 I think the first one was 200W so -> 250W or so


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Kana Chan said:


> EK-QuantumX Delta TEC EVO - Copper + Nickel
> 
> 
> EK-QuantumX Delta TEC EVO is the 2nd generation of cryo-cooling water block that is made in collaboration with Intel®. It is a unique cooling solution for enthusiasts who are seeking consistent system performance and ultimate overclocking on unlocked 11th and 10th Gen Intel® Core™ desktop...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.ekwb.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the first one was 200W so -> 250W or so


No, I thought the same thing because of their marketing. It’s the exact same peltier but now it’s soldered to the block instead of thermal paste. “50w more of cooling power” is a lie. It pulls 200w.


----------



## nievz

phillyman36 said:


> the highest i have ever seen my 12900k go is 70c when converting a video. Im using a Galahad aio 360. Temps are fine under normal usage.


where did you get the mounting for your Galahad?


----------



## fortecosi

nievz said:


> where did you get the mounting for your Galahad?


Asus 1700 boards mounting holes are backward compatible with socket 1200.


----------



## BattlePhenom

HyperMatrix said:


> Unfortunately they’re still keeping my Canadian preorder as a preorder. Guess they didn’t like that shipping was just $11 when I ordered vs. their new price of $34. Probably hoping we cancel our preorders.


You and me both. Preordered as soon as the MB popped up on Memexpress on Oct.29th. I'm not in a huge hurry since I'm looking for 6600 CL36 kit.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

fortecosi said:


> Asus 1700 boards mounting holes are backward compatible with socket 1200.


I keep hearing this but isn’t the mounting hole pattern Intel spec so all motherboard brands should be backwards compatible?


----------



## Groove2013

0451 said:


> I keep hearing this but isn’t the mounting hole pattern Intel spec so all motherboard brands should be backwards compatible?


No. Only Asus.


----------



## Daniel M

0451 said:


> I keep hearing this but isn’t the mounting hole pattern Intel spec so all motherboard brands should be backwards compatible?


The Asus boards have two sets of mounting holes. LGA 15xx and LGA 1700.


----------



## nievz

Groove2013 said:


> No. Only Asus.


This is great. I see what they did with the holes. I'd go with Asus then for sure.


----------



## Falkentyne

fortecosi said:


> Asus 1700 boards mounting holes are backward compatible with socket 1200.


Even though the mounting hole SIZES are socket 1200 compatible, unless you're using _nuts and bolts_ to screw in the heat block to the backplate, you're going to run into mounting issues on many cooling solutions because the Z-height of the IHS and the entire socket is lower (relative to the motherboard). 

As I'm sure you well know, most mounting solutions are designed so that you won't overtighten the cooler and end up overcompressing and damaging the pins in the socket (look at what happens to some people who use direct die, without a proper DD mount, for instance) due to excessive downwards pressure. If the cooling solution is designed for a specific mounting pressure and then the screws stop turning after a forced thread stop on 115x/1200, you're going to have issues with balance or contact with S1700 with these coolers. The NH-D15, for example, will absolutely NOT work in S1700 without the 1700 mounting kit because there will be imbalance and improper pressure, causing overheating since the IHS will sit lower relative to the Y axis.

Coolers that use adjustable bolts and nuts without a fixed stop will be most compatible (Usually these are custom loops).

Oddly enough, one thing which will work on at least several cooling solutions is using the _Noctua_ 115x backplate with some AIO's, without using the Noctua supplied spacers. The bolt threads should reach through the holes on the blocks and you can hand screw the cooler on with the thumb screws, which would work whether you used the 1700 version of the Secufirm mount or the 115x version, if and only if the 1151 version worked with that AIO previously (the total max height of the bolt to the backplate is the same, just the length of the threads are different, which won't matter with an AIO).

A notable example is the Eisbaer AIO (using the Eisbaer extreme 280 or RGB AIO with the Secufirm 2 backplate should work on both 1151/1200 and 1700 on either version of the Noctua backplate.

I also am 80% sure that this will also work with the Liquid Freezer II coolers as well (just use the noctua backplate with them), if the ends of the bolts don't stick up too high (you need the Noctua thumbscrews to fully attach and push down on the Liquid Freezer block).

Someone with a LF II and a Secufirm2 backplate sitting around should try it and see if it works.


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## sugi0lover

Another SP103 made in China... Until now 3 SP103 12900k~
(Edit : Vietnam not China)
This one's P SP is higher than the other SP103's P 114, E 80.
He is going to use it for himself~ No sale!

Update: one guy got 103 out of 8 12900k binned
the other guy got 103 out of 7 12900k binned.
Lucky guys


----------



## Bilco

Has anyone tried to mount a Phantek glacier c350i to any motherboards? I reached out to phantex and they pretty much told me I'm SOL and that it isn't compatible and would have a mounting kit released for it to mount lga 1700. Kinda disappointed.



Falkentyne said:


> Even though the mounting hole SIZES are socket 1200 compatible, unless you're using _nuts and bolts_ to screw in the heat block to the backplate, you're going to run into mounting issues on many cooling solutions because the Z-height of the IHS and the entire socket is lower (relative to the motherboard).
> 
> As I'm sure you well know, most mounting solutions are designed so that you won't overtighten the cooler and end up overcompressing and damaging the pins in the socket (look at what happens to some people who use direct die, without a proper DD mount, for instance) due to excessive downwards pressure. If the cooling solution is designed for a specific mounting pressure and then the screws stop turning after a forced thread stop on 115x/1200, you're going to have issues with balance or contact with S1700 with these coolers. The NH-D15, for example, will absolutely NOT work in S1700 without the 1700 mounting kit because there will be imbalance and improper pressure, causing overheating since the IHS will sit lower relative to the Y axis.
> 
> Coolers that use adjustable bolts and nuts without a fixed stop will be most compatible (Usually these are custom loops).
> 
> Oddly enough, one thing which will work on at least several cooling solutions is using the _Noctua_ 115x backplate with some AIO's, without using the Noctua supplied spacers. The bolt threads should reach through the holes on the blocks and you can hand screw the cooler on with the thumb screws, which would work whether you used the 1700 version of the Secufirm mount or the 115x version, if and only if the 1151 version worked with that AIO previously (the total max height of the bolt to the backplate is the same, just the length of the threads are different, which won't matter with an AIO).
> 
> A notable example is the Eisbaer AIO (using the Eisbaer extreme 280 or RGB AIO with the Secufirm 2 backplate should work on both 1151/1200 and 1700 on either version of the Noctua backplate.
> 
> I also am 80% sure that this will also work with the Liquid Freezer II coolers as well (just use the noctua backplate with them), if the ends of the bolts don't stick up too high (you need the Noctua thumbscrews to fully attach and push down on the Liquid Freezer block).
> 
> Someone with a LF II and a Secufirm2 backplate sitting around should try it and see if it works.


You think the mentioned cooler above would be safe with nuts? I have a calibrated torque wrench I could use to get somewhat accurate pressure.


----------



## sblantipodi

phillyman36 said:


> the highest i have ever seen my 12900k go is 70c when converting a video. Im using a Galahad aio 360. Temps are fine under normal usage.


What about during a cinebench for example?


----------



## sblantipodi

morph. said:


> Completely different workload scenarios.. the 90degrees that tech tubers hit was full load 100% stress test it's not what "normal" use case people will have for things such as games... Unless perhaps you are running 1080p res. But even then I'll go out on a limb and say you won't be flat-lining all the cores on the 12900k for gaming to output that much heat on the cpu.
> 
> If you look back on previous iterations of 11900k/10900k they all do hit 90 degrees with max stress test work loads or rendering/encoding.


I do rendering with my processor and code compiling and I feel that rendering and code compiling are completely normal tasks 😁
If this is true, you'll see my processor for sale soon.


----------



## clackersx

Falkentyne said:


> And Gigabyte launched one of their Z690 boards with an _AUGUST_ beta bios, that didn't support NVME drives...
> 
> Yikes...
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/qoyph7


I am certain Gigabyte just had RST/RAID enabled by default, which is pretty dumb (possibly some kinda broken/hidden setting which caused it to be always enabled).
User manual states you must download and load a driver during windows install (Intel RST VMD Controller)

Usually with RST/RAID enabled, the nvme drive will not show in the bios/uefi at all (unless you enter the RST/RAID menu)

The driver is required when RST/RAID mode is enabled, even if there are no RAID arrays configured.


Its dumb to have enabled by default as it is another point of failure (potential driver issue), the drive MAY not be transferable to another build/motherboard AND unless things change, it won't be usable with Microsoft DirectStorage in the future (as it wont be the standard microsoft nvme controller driver)


----------



## roooo

Falkentyne said:


> A notable example is the Eisbaer AIO (using the Eisbaer extreme 280 or RGB AIO with the Secufirm 2 backplate should work on both 1151/1200 and 1700 on either version of the Noctua backplate.


I can confirm that the Alphacool XPX block which is used for example in the Eisbaer extreme and did a great job on 1200 does work very well with the default backplate on a 1700 Strix-A Gaming D4.


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> Mr. Bin 😅


Errmmm...if that soft drink can in the last pic suggests you're gonna jump out of some stratosphere balloon with all that gear soon, please drop us a line so anyone in the area might have a chance to grab and save some of those components!


----------



## Falkentyne

Bilco said:


> Has anyone tried to mount a Phantek glacier c350i to any motherboards? I reached out to phantex and they pretty much told me I'm SOL and that it isn't compatible and would have a mounting kit released for it to mount lga 1700. Kinda disappointed.
> 
> 
> 
> You think the mentioned cooler above would be safe with nuts? I have a calibrated torque wrench I could use to get somewhat accurate pressure.


I'm not an engineer. You have to find this out for yourself.


----------



## BenchAndGames

Falkentyne said:


> Even though the mounting hole SIZES are socket 1200 compatible, unless you're using _nuts and bolts_ to screw in the heat block to the backplate, you're going to run into mounting issues on many cooling solutions because the Z-height of the IHS and the entire socket is lower (relative to the motherboard).
> 
> As I'm sure you well know, most mounting solutions are designed so that you won't overtighten the cooler and end up overcompressing and damaging the pins in the socket (look at what happens to some people who use direct die, without a proper DD mount, for instance) due to excessive downwards pressure. If the cooling solution is designed for a specific mounting pressure and then the screws stop turning after a forced thread stop on 115x/1200, you're going to have issues with balance or contact with S1700 with these coolers. The NH-D15, for example, will absolutely NOT work in S1700 without the 1700 mounting kit because there will be imbalance and improper pressure, causing overheating since the IHS will sit lower relative to the Y axis.
> 
> Coolers that use adjustable bolts and nuts without a fixed stop will be most compatible (Usually these are custom loops).
> 
> Oddly enough, one thing which will work on at least several cooling solutions is using the _Noctua_ 115x backplate with some AIO's, without using the Noctua supplied spacers. The bolt threads should reach through the holes on the blocks and you can hand screw the cooler on with the thumb screws, which would work whether you used the 1700 version of the Secufirm mount or the 115x version, if and only if the 1151 version worked with that AIO previously (the total max height of the bolt to the backplate is the same, just the length of the threads are different, which won't matter with an AIO).
> 
> A notable example is the Eisbaer AIO (using the Eisbaer extreme 280 or RGB AIO with the Secufirm 2 backplate should work on both 1151/1200 and 1700 on either version of the Noctua backplate.
> 
> I also am 80% sure that this will also work with the Liquid Freezer II coolers as well (just use the noctua backplate with them), if the ends of the bolts don't stick up too high (you need the Noctua thumbscrews to fully attach and push down on the Liquid Freezer block).
> 
> Someone with a LF II and a Secufirm2 backplate sitting around should try it and see if it works.


I did this test myself:

1) Tested the 12700k with NH-D15 (LGA 1200 Mounting kit) on Asus ROG Strix Z690-A
But I had to turn the cooler 90º because normal position dosent fit properly due the VRM heatsinks
Now for the presure it was everything ok, actually I took a good look at the CPU and cold plate from the cooler after I remove it and the thermal paste was spread very uniform, no gaps.

2) 12700k with NH-D15 (the special LGA 1700 Mounting kit adapter) on Asus TUF Z690
Fit perfectly in any position without any issues.
The presure its still the same as with the older kit, or at least same on looking at the IHS and cold plate, technically im sure there is difference, but im not able to test it.


----------



## iraff1

Hiikeri said:


> It doesnt, It wont actually matter when OCing and its only placebo from Asus MB owners..
> 
> Never believed that 2021 someones still chasing them until i see these pseudo chasers on this thread... :/
> 
> SP is only calculated from CPU stock VID -voltage and has nothing to do how good or bad is prosessor to overclock, and i tell later why.
> 
> Yes, high SP rank CPU only needs lower voltage on default ja overclocking and of course, it wont make so much heat = lower temperature.
> 
> And then we go to the facts,
> lower VID means that silicon has less voltage "leaking" when power switches on the chip and after that it must be move out from cores (=heat) to IHS and from chip point of view its harder with less "leaking" silicone, getting rid off from heat.
> 
> "Better/more solid silicone" keeps a heat more or less more inside core.
> 
> Vice versa, when silicone is weaker (VID is higher) then CPU is easier to release its temperature load ja for us, users, its easier to keep CPU temp at lower levels.
> 
> For that reason some low SP rank processors overclocking better than high SP rank processors when using max Cpu usage apps like an Prime95 or AVX XTU for stability test.
> 
> LN2 or He benchmarking is different story becouse they can suck all temp from Cpu.
> 
> But with +Celsius+ cooling solutions, Air/Water there is no reason to chase, has ever needed to find Cpu /w high SP rank.
> 
> Why any other Mobo manufactures wont add similar measuring system to their MBs? Marketing absolutely will love it? More nice marketing lines...
> 
> 'Cause its pointless thing, sad to see that Asus still uses it on theirs MBs...so childish...Plz, someone send a email to Asus CEO on that great marketing engineer work.
> 
> 2500usd SP103+. 😂
> 
> My 12900K is now on local post office, if my chip are ~SP150 i can sell it 1500usd or change it to 2pcs 12900K what-ever their mystic SP rank is, even at 70 is totally accepted.


Thanks for the explanation, interesting that asus includes this and its become a thing among overclockers to the point where they are ready to pay 4x retail to get "SP103" with no real warranty of any good performance at all :


----------



## cstkl1

iraff1 said:


> Thanks for the explanation, interesting that asus includes this and its become a thing among overclockers to the point where they are ready to pay 4x retail to get "SP103" with no real warranty of any good performance at all :


whats hilarious is ppl making assumptions of the past to be always be true. 

atm sp is true and has merit. 

the sp thing was part of ai prediction to auto oc. it gets better every year depending on binning by intel etc. 

the idea is to have a stock like overclock.


----------



## Hiikeri

BenchAndGames said:


> I did this test myself:
> 
> 1) Tested the 12700k with NH-D15 (LGA 1200 Mounting kit) on Asus ROG Strix Z690-A
> But I had to turn the cooler 90º because normal position dosent fit properly due the VRM heatsinks
> Now for the presure it was everything ok, actually I took a good look at the CPU and cold plate from the cooler after I remove it and the thermal paste was spread very uniform, no gaps.
> 
> 2) 12700k with NH-D15 (the special LGA 1700 Mounting kit adapter) on Asus TUF Z690
> Fit perfectly in any position without any issues.
> The presure its still the same as with the older kit, or at least same on looking at the IHS and cold plate, technically im sure there is difference, but im not able to test it.


Theres a list for Asus Z690 MBs...
Several ASUS Z690 & B660 Motherboards not compatible with Noctua coolers
Compability issues only with Asus boards.

All Rog Strix mobos /w VRM heatsink problem..
Z690-G Gaming WIFI motherboard is incompatible because the cooler overhangs the top PCIe x16 slot, preventing users from using the Gen 5 slot on the motherboard.

Nice design from Asus. 😆


----------



## 七海nana7mi

safedisk said:


> View attachment 2531271
> 
> View attachment 2531272
> 
> View attachment 2531273
> 
> 
> Hynix Memory is a good choice for users who want performance
> so i like hynix
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX 1T 6600 30-37-37-28 1.48v
> 
> Aida64 Latency 49.3ns
> Geekbench3 Multi Memscore 13438


good


----------



## Bocraft

These high SP 12900K are all from China


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Bocraft said:


> View attachment 2531682
> 
> View attachment 2531684
> 
> View attachment 2531683
> These high SP 12900K are all from China


Country of origin never mattered. But next generation people will still speculate.


----------



## Huseyinbaykal

Please. Need advice
I have 5950x - asus dark hero - gskill royal elite 3600 cl14-14-14-34 16x2 ram kit. 
I want to use intel for years. Should I switch to 12900k?
Also should I get ddr5 or use my own ddr4 kit with it? Cant find any review with cl14 3600 ram kits for 12900k. Please give me some advice


----------



## Bocraft

Hiikeri said:


> It doesnt, It wont actually matter when OCing and its only placebo from Asus MB owners..
> 
> Never believed that 2021 someones still chasing them until i see these pseudo chasers on this thread... :/
> 
> SP is only calculated from CPU stock VID -voltage and has nothing to do how good or bad is prosessor to overclock, and i tell later why.
> 
> Yes, high SP rank CPU only needs lower voltage on default ja overclocking and of course, it wont make so much heat = lower temperature.
> 
> And then we go to the facts,
> lower VID means that silicon has less voltage "leaking" when power switches on the chip and after that it must be move out from cores (=heat) to IHS and from chip point of view its harder with less "leaking" silicone, getting rid off from heat.
> 
> "Better/more solid silicone" keeps a heat more or less more inside core.
> 
> Vice versa, when silicone is weaker (VID is higher) then CPU is easier to release its temperature load ja for us, users, its easier to keep CPU temp at lower levels.
> 
> For that reason some low SP rank processors overclocking better than high SP rank processors when using max Cpu usage apps like an Prime95 or AVX XTU for stability test.
> 
> LN2 or He benchmarking is different story becouse they can suck all temp from Cpu.
> 
> But with +Celsius+ cooling solutions, Air/Water there is no reason to chase, has ever needed to find Cpu /w high SP rank.
> 
> Why any other Mobo manufactures wont add similar measuring system to their MBs? Marketing absolutely will love it? More nice marketing lines...
> 
> 'Cause its pointless thing, sad to see that Asus still uses it on theirs MBs...so childish...Plz, someone send a email to Asus CEO on that great marketing engineer work.
> 
> 2500usd SP103+. 😂
> 
> My 12900K is now on local post office, if my chip are ~SP150 i can sell it 1500usd or change it to 2pcs 12900K what-ever their mystic SP rank is, even at 70 is totally accepted.


Intel every generation of CPU, I will buy the best physical high price! The higher the SP score, the better the CPU overclocking potential. 9900K 120SP / 9900KS 105SP / 10900K 126SP / 11900K 104SP. You don't understand this behavior because you don't have money


----------



## 七海nana7mi

this made in chian 12900k


----------



## Hiikeri

Bocraft said:


> Intel every generation of CPU, I will buy the best physical high price! The higher the SP score, the better the CPU overclocking potential. 9900K 120SP / 9900KS 105SP / 10900K 126SP / 11900K 104SP. You don't understand this behavior because you don't have money


If you have SP80 and SP100 CPUs, you can OC them both example allcore 5.3Ghz at same cooling solution. SP100 doesnt mean that you can OC it higher, example 5.4Ghz.

If you wanna higher OC, just buy Single Stage Phase Change subzero cooling unit and then you can overclock SP70 processor to 5.8Ghz.


----------



## acoustic

七海nana7mi said:


> View attachment 2531690
> 
> 
> this made in chian 12900k


88c in bios lol .. no cooler attached while binning ?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

acoustic said:


> 88c in bios lol .. no cooler attached while binning ?


Probably counterfeit 😂 

I take back what I said about country not mattering. Buy Vietnamese or Malaysian.


----------



## roooo

acoustic said:


> 88c in bios lol .. no cooler attached while binning ?


When throughput counts...


----------



## Bocraft

sugi0lover said:


> The post about Dram 6200, 1.35v VDDQ 1.2 is also another SP103 12900K. I already saw two 103 SPs.


If any of your friends are interested in selling 103SP, please feel free to contact me. Of course, I also look at about 500 12900K sp's every week. If there is a higher one, I will not need the 103SP CPU.


----------



## 七海nana7mi

Hiikeri said:


> If you have SP80 and SP100 CPUs, you can OC them both example allcore 5.3Ghz at same cooling solution. SP100 doesnt mean that you can OC it higher, example 5.4Ghz.
> 
> If you wanna higher OC, just buy Single Stage Phase Change subzero cooling unit and then you can overclock SP70 processor to 5.8Ghz.


sp100 i can oc 5.4ghz all core aio，but sp80 not can，high sp cpu have too low voltage，high sp cpu performance under ln2 is more obvious.
ur remarks seem to say oc meaningless.


----------



## roooo

0451 said:


> I take back what I said about country not mattering. Buy Vietnamese or Malaysian.


You mean because as of now there will be no high SP Chinese chips left on the market?!


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> You mean because as of now there will be no high SP Chinese chips left on the market?!


its tray cpus.


----------



## 七海nana7mi

草稿
保存汇票
[/QUOTE]


acoustic said:


> 88c in bios lol .. no cooler attached while binning ?


when u have hundreds of CPUs in ur hand, u simply don't have time to install the radiator for inspection
of course, if u don't even know that too high atemperature will reduce the frequency
i have nothing to say


----------



## 七海nana7mi

.


----------



## cstkl1

@七海nana7mi
@Bocraft
use bios 0702.

previous bios has a bug that can load older cpu sp etc instead of the new one... happens either via profile or safeboot etc.


----------



## 七海nana7mi

cstkl1 said:


> @七海nana7mi
> @Bocraft
> use bios 0702.
> 
> previous bios has a bug that can load older cpu sp etc instead of the new one... happens either via profile or safeboot etc.












u say this？
i konw
i have 690apex 0702 and 0096 bios
safedisk give me
now i use 0096


----------



## 七海nana7mi

cstkl1 said:


> @七海nana7mi
> @Bocraft
> use bios 0702.
> 
> previous bios has a bug that can load older cpu sp etc instead of the new one... happens either via profile or safeboot etc.


。


----------



## cstkl1

七海nana7mi said:


> View attachment 2531693
> 
> 
> u say this？
> i konw
> i have 690apex 0702 and 0096 bios
> safedisk give me
> now i use 0096


no

its a bug. say u put sp80 cpu A 
then u put another cpu B and it loaded safeboot or something like load profile or something 

the v/f still cpu A

0702 fixed this.


----------



## cstkl1

dont use 0096 when binning. thats the one with safeboot bug.


----------



## 七海nana7mi

cstkl1 said:


> dont use 0096 when binning. thats the one with safeboot bug.


when i choose test cpu time, i use 0702 bios
ok i konw 0096bug 
thanks brother


----------



## cstkl1

Huseyinbaykal said:


> Please. Need advice
> I have 5950x - asus dark hero - gskill royal elite 3600 cl14-14-14-34 16x2 ram kit.
> I want to use intel for years. Should I switch to 12900k?
> Also should I get ddr5 or use my own ddr4 kit with it? Cant find any review with cl14 3600 ram kits for 12900k. Please give me some advice


ddr4 with adl on gaming is better than zen. 

adl not meant for productivity like work. its just a coincidence its strong at it but uses alot of power for those kind of task
gaming power and idle its lower than zen 

depends on what u want. a whea, usb working cpu that delivers the fps you expect from your gpu 

or ...


----------



## 七海nana7mi

air boot
checking sp will be much faster
no heat sink is required to enter bios


----------



## roooo

七海nana7mi said:


> View attachment 2531696
> 
> 
> air boot
> checking sp will be much faster
> no heat sink is required to enter bios


Damn, I have short hair.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Does anyone know if Heatkiller IV Pro block works in the Z690 Apex or do I need the LGA 1700 mounting kit?


----------



## Spiriva

Atm im testing 5.4ghz all cores, (sp 88) @ 1.385v, llc 6

So far so good.


----------



## Forsaken1

Lets try this1 baby!!!


0451 said:


> Why not test different brands? Then we can compare notes. Or you can be boring and only buy Asus.


Right on brother.The more the merrier.


----------



## dante`afk

SoldierRBT said:


> Does anyone know if Heatkiller IV Pro block works in the Z690 Apex or do I need the LGA 1700 mounting kit?


it works but pressure is not optimal, you ultimately need their 1700 kit or put yourself some extra washers on each screw to increase pressure


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Anyone have any information on when the Z690 Aorus Pro DDR4 variant will become available? That board seems like a strong value.

Also, has Optimus said how their Signature V2 blocks will fit LGA1700? Maybe need a new mounting kit there as well?


----------



## Forsaken1

0451 said:


> Country of origin never mattered. But next generation people will still speculate.


Give me the center of the die..........0000


----------



## Forsaken1

cletus-cassidy said:


> Anyone have any information on when the Z690 Aorus Pro DDR4 variant will become available? That board seems like a strong value.
> 
> Also, has Optimus said how their Signature V2 blocks will fit LGA1700? Maybe need a new mounting kit there as well?


Optimus says v2 will fit.Maybe mods needed on asus board with flaky mounting holes.Let you know v2 in route.
No pro or ultra ddr4 in stock in states.Its on my radar.

Side note.Apex in stock at the egg.


----------



## HyperMatrix

Forsaken1 said:


> Optimus says v2 will fit.Maybe mods needed on asus board with flaky mounting holes.Let you know v2 in route.
> No pro or ultra ddr4 in stock in states.Its on my radar.


V2 doesn't use springs to apply pressure. It's direct pressure from how much you tighten the screws. So there shouldn't be any mounting issues there. Just crank it like soulja boy.


----------



## Esenel

SoldierRBT said:


> Does anyone know if Heatkiller IV Pro block works in the Z690 Apex or do I need the LGA 1700 mounting kit?


Let's see.
Screws fully tightened.
But no RAM to test yet 🙃 
Their Upgrade Kit is ordered though.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

HyperMatrix said:


> V2 doesn't use springs to apply pressure. It's direct pressure from how much you tighten the screws. So there shouldn't be any mounting issues there. Just crank it like soulja boy.


I have two V2s -- one that I ordered 2 years ago came with a backplate for LGA1200 with springs. The other I ordered 3 months ago and did not have the backplate and no springs as you said. I might need a conversion kit for the older one....


----------



## SoldierRBT

Esenel said:


> Let's see.
> Screws fully tightened.
> But no RAM to test yet 🙃
> Their Upgrade Kit is ordered though


Thank you very much. That's good enough to turn it on and check SP. I got Z690 APEX and 2 12900Ks to test. I was able to order a single 4800C40 stick. Should be here by the end of the week.


----------



## Carillo

Hiikeri said:


> It doesnt, It wont actually matter when OCing and its only placebo from Asus MB owners..
> 
> Never believed that 2021 someones still chasing them until i see these pseudo chasers on this thread... :/
> 
> SP is only calculated from CPU stock VID -voltage and has nothing to do how good or bad is prosessor to overclock, and i tell later why.
> 
> Yes, high SP rank CPU only needs lower voltage on default ja overclocking and of course, it wont make so much heat = lower temperature.
> 
> And then we go to the facts,
> lower VID means that silicon has less voltage "leaking" when power switches on the chip and after that it must be move out from cores (=heat) to IHS and from chip point of view its harder with less "leaking" silicone, getting rid off from heat.
> 
> "Better/more solid silicone" keeps a heat more or less more inside core.
> 
> Vice versa, when silicone is weaker (VID is higher) then CPU is easier to release its temperature load ja for us, users, its easier to keep CPU temp at lower levels.
> 
> For that reason some low SP rank processors overclocking better than high SP rank processors when using max Cpu usage apps like an Prime95 or AVX XTU for stability test.
> 
> LN2 or He benchmarking is different story becouse they can suck all temp from Cpu.
> 
> But with +Celsius+ cooling solutions, Air/Water there is no reason to chase, has ever needed to find Cpu /w high SP rank.
> 
> Why any other Mobo manufactures wont add similar measuring system to their MBs? Marketing absolutely will love it? More nice marketing lines...
> 
> 'Cause its pointless thing, sad to see that Asus still uses it on theirs MBs...so childish...Plz, someone send a email to Asus CEO on that great marketing engineer work.
> 
> 2500usd SP103+. 😂
> 
> My 12900K is now on local post office, if my chip are ~SP150 i can sell it 1500usd or change it to 2pcs 12900K what-ever their mystic SP rank is, even at 70 is totally accepted.


Sounds like you're the guy that got the only SP 45 chip Intel have released .


----------



## Forsaken1

This is not rocket science.If your on air or water a high sp chip may be beneficial .If on chilled water or above I’ll take a leaky one all day.
Center of die is more beneficial then sp rating.


----------



## CENS

Some guys will never understand the value of SP: Binning is winning.


----------



## fortecosi

Hiikeri said:


> It doesnt, It wont actually matter when OCing and its only placebo from Asus MB owners..
> 
> Never believed that 2021 someones still chasing them until i see these pseudo chasers on this thread... :/
> 
> SP is only calculated from CPU stock VID -voltage and has nothing to do how good or bad is prosessor to overclock, and i tell later why.
> 
> Yes, high SP rank CPU only needs lower voltage on default ja overclocking and of course, it wont make so much heat = lower temperature.
> 
> And then we go to the facts,
> lower VID means that silicon has less voltage "leaking" when power switches on the chip and after that it must be move out from cores (=heat) to IHS and from chip point of view its harder with less "leaking" silicone, getting rid off from heat.
> 
> "Better/more solid silicone" keeps a heat more or less more inside core.
> 
> Vice versa, when silicone is weaker (VID is higher) then CPU is easier to release its temperature load ja for us, users, its easier to keep CPU temp at lower levels.
> 
> For that reason some low SP rank processors overclocking better than high SP rank processors when using max Cpu usage apps like an Prime95 or AVX XTU for stability test.
> 
> LN2 or He benchmarking is different story becouse they can suck all temp from Cpu.
> 
> But with +Celsius+ cooling solutions, Air/Water there is no reason to chase, has ever needed to find Cpu /w high SP rank.
> 
> Why any other Mobo manufactures wont add similar measuring system to their MBs? Marketing absolutely will love it? More nice marketing lines...
> 
> 'Cause its pointless thing, sad to see that Asus still uses it on theirs MBs...so childish...Plz, someone send a email to Asus CEO on that great marketing engineer work.
> 
> 2500usd SP103+. 😂
> 
> My 12900K is now on local post office, if my chip are ~SP150 i can sell it 1500usd or change it to 2pcs 12900K what-ever their mystic SP rank is, even at 70 is totally accepted.




Unveiling the revolutionary MSI Z690 motherboards - YouTube
For people saying it´s only ASUS feature, watch at 27:40, MSI has some sort of silicon quality measure as well.


----------



## clackersx

fortecosi said:


> Unveiling the revolutionary MSI Z690 motherboards - YouTube
> For people saying it´s only ASUS feature, watch at 27:40, MSI has some sort of silicon quality measure as well.


oh no, you are going to upset everyone.










But yes, same kinda thing, different number scale though. Would need someone to test a bunch on Asus and the same on MSI to figure out what Asus number matches what MSI number.


----------



## CENS

On that note I need to find the guy in this forum that sold me his SP98 11900k that I was able to break all the WR with on the EVGA Z590 Dark. I want to send him a gift and give back. He is the true hero.


----------



## JSHamlet234

Has anyone played with the 12700K yet? I wonder how that bin actually does in practice.


----------



## Shonk

Still waiting on 2 x 32 GB Crucial 4800 Dual Rank DDR5
They refunded me 15% though so dropped price from £351 to £298.xx
They also gave me a code for a Free Crucial X6 500GB Yesterday

Note how i had to mod the case to fit the motherboard


----------



## cstkl1

Esenel said:


> Let's see.
> Screws fully tightened.
> But no RAM to test yet 🙃
> Their Upgrade Kit is ordered though.
> View attachment 2531712
> 
> View attachment 2531710
> 
> View attachment 2531711
> 
> View attachment 2531713


so close to the dimm slots. 
same as z590 A
i had to dremel my bits premium summit to use the supercool ram block


----------



## D-EJ915

cstkl1 said:


> so close to the dimm slots.
> same as z590 A
> i had to dremel my bits premium summit to use the supercool ram block


man giga likes to put ram slots so close together, can't even put some sticks into tachyon with heatspreaders installed lol. same issue asrock had before but at least they space them out more now.


----------



## cstkl1

D-EJ915 said:


> man giga likes to put ram slots so close together, can't even put some sticks into tachyon with heatspreaders installed lol. same issue asrock had before but at least they space them out more now.


on asus z590 extreme. couldnt install 4 royals. so expecting z690 extreme the same issue. anyway now the cpu top bracket been dremeled. no issue.


----------



## dante`afk

@*Shonk*

wow you even got your arctic kit. I'm waiting for shipment since last Friday, getting mad AF calling them every day and they promise it'll be shipped on the day I called, still waiting -_-


----------



## Shonk

got 2 sets..


----------



## cstkl1

@sugi0lover 

retail is god
2nd/third timings close to ddr4 level

retail can run ecore -10 from P
so 52|42 vmin 1.16 prime95 small fft avx disable stable


----------



## sugi0lover

12900K (SP 103) @5.4Ghz . CineR23 for 10 min

LLC4, 1.43v
Cooling : Mora 360
Temp : 23.7C~25C


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> 12900K (SP 103) @5.4Ghz . CineR23 for 10 min
> 
> LLC4, 1.43v
> Cooling : Mora 360
> Temp : 23.7C~25C
> 
> View attachment 2531759


Thanks! This is the kind of data we need to compare SP rating with actual performance.


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> Thanks! This is the kind of data we need to compare SP rating with actual performance.


comin


fortecosi said:


> Unveiling the revolutionary MSI Z690 motherboards - YouTube
> For people saying it´s only ASUS feature, watch at 27:40, MSI has some sort of silicon quality measure as well.


again asus sp is part of ai overclock. 
it started with v:f vid. 

so whatever feature other aib are just copying for marketing to push sales.


----------



## jerrytsao

SoldierRBT said:


> Does anyone know if Heatkiller IV Pro block works in the Z690 Apex or do I need the LGA 1700 mounting kit?


Works pretty well on Hero, will compare the temp when 1700 kit arrives, which was shipped from watercool.de yesterday.


----------



## Spiriva

This is my cpu. 12900k (sp88, made in china), 5.4ghz all core. LLC 6, i have the volt set to 1.41V in bios, cpu-z seem to report 1.385V tho.
E-cores at 4.1ghz.

I got 2x 480 rads with 16x Noctua NF-A12x25 fans in push/pull.


----------



## Esenel

jerrytsao said:


> Works pretty well on Hero, will compare the temp when 1700 kit arrives, which was shipped from watercool.de yesterday.
> 
> View attachment 2531765
> 
> View attachment 2531767


Benefit from Apex.
You can install the Heatkiller in the supposed direction due to the flat caps 
(Hope these are caps left of the CPU).


----------



## Spiriva

Is there any sort of recommendation from Intel what V not to cross for 24/7 use? I can run 5.5ghz on all cores but it needs ~1.450V to be "game/3dmark stable" at those speed.
I have not tested Cinebench r23 at 5.5 yet tho.


----------



## mattxx88

CENS said:


> Some guys will never understand the value of SP: Binning is winning.


im cheking every day hwbot and hwluxx marketplace waiting your bin scraps


----------



## Nizzen

Esenel said:


> Benefit from Apex.
> You can install the Heatkiller in the supposed direction due to the flat caps
> (Hope these are caps left of the CPU).


I think Apex means "benefits" i some languages. It must be 😁

There is just benefits with Apex 😎


----------



## shamino1978

edit: (for ddr4 bios)


----------



## CENS

mattxx88 said:


> im cheking every day hwbot and hwluxx marketplace waiting your bin scraps


haha if all goes well, I can check my chips on the weekend


----------



## roooo

Did anyone have the chance to do tests with the 4800C40 Kingston ValueRam DDR5 kit (KVR48U40BS8K2-32) which appears to be the only DDR5 currently available in Germany? Any infos on what chips are used?


----------



## Hulk1988

Its time for Samsung RAM OC 










Lets see how far I can push it. 7000-8000 would be nice


----------



## nievz

Guys how's Gigabyte BIOS for ADL? On Zen3 it's WHEA fest, USB dropouts etc. Appreciate feedback.


----------



## Groove2013

nievz said:


> Guys how's Gigabyte BIOS for ADL? On Zen3 it's WHEA fest. Appreciate feedback.


It sucks.


----------



## fray_bentos

Shonk said:


> Still waiting on 2 x 32 GB Crucial 4800 Dual Rank DDR5
> They refunded me 15% though so dropped price from £351 to £298.xx
> They also gave me a code for a Free Crucial X6 500GB Yesterday
> 
> Note how i had to mod the case to fit the motherboard
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2531747
> 
> 
> View attachment 2531748
> 
> 
> View attachment 2531749
> 
> 
> View attachment 2531750
> 
> 
> View attachment 2531751


Loving all these ADL build pics with empty DDR5 RAM slots.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Last run with Strix before I swap to Apex


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> I think Apex means "benefits" i some languages. It must be 😁
> 
> There is just benefits with Apex 😎


lol


fray_bentos said:


> Loving all these ADL build pics with empty DDR5 RAM slots.


----------



## sblantipodi

is there some saints who can tell me what temperature to expect with a 360mm on a 12900K no Overclock with the "default TDP of 240W"?


----------



## mattxx88

Hulk1988 said:


> Its time for Samsung RAM OC
> 
> View attachment 2531774
> 
> 
> Lets see how far I can push it. 7000-8000 would be nice


Do you think F5-5600u3636c16 would mount Samsung too?


----------



## cstkl1

sblantipodi said:


> is there some saints who can tell me what temperature to expect with a 360mm on a 12900K no Overclock with the "default TDP of 240W"?


silicon lottery + mobo accuracy in delivering correct vcore 

thats the reason for sp, ai feature, octvb etc
get the max out of the cpu with good thermals. 









ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...


So where would you start step by step ? Do I start there : LLC, AC_LL & DC_LL: ?




www.overclock.net


----------



## Hulk1988

mattxx88 said:


> Do you think F5-5600u3636c16 would mount Samsung too?


If 40s have it I guess 36s have it as well. I would be surprised if the manifactur chip for the 5600 GSKILL Series would be a lottery as well.


----------



## CENS

Anyone has a updated TurboV Core? Friends PC is crashing when opening it...


----------



## cstkl1

CENS said:


> Anyone has a updated TurboV Core? Friends PC is crashing when opening it...











ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...


So where would you start step by step ? Do I start there : LLC, AC_LL & DC_LL: ?




www.overclock.net





tools link


----------



## CENS

Thx bro, he is already using that one damn. Any special drivers like Intel ME or similar you need? Or known incompatibility with OS?


----------



## sblantipodi

cstkl1 said:


> silicon lottery + mobo accuracy in delivering correct vcore
> 
> thats the reason for sp, ai feature, octvb etc
> get the max out of the cpu with good thermals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...
> 
> 
> So where would you start step by step ? Do I start there : LLC, AC_LL & DC_LL: ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


but what are the range of those CPUs?
is it possible that there are some CPUs that hit throttle in summer while running stock?


----------



## sugi0lover

finally here, my stupid SP80 12900K ...









[53/42/45, 1.330v llc7]


----------



## cstkl1

CENS said:


> Thx bro, he is already using that one damn. Any special drivers like Intel ME or similar you need? Or known incompatibility with OS?


eh i just use ac update drivers uninstalled it with uninstalled. clear cmos

turbo V just need asus com services


----------



## cstkl1

sblantipodi said:


> but what are the range of those CPUs?
> is it possible that there are some CPUs that hit throttle in summer while running stock?


stock shouldnt. the cpu not hot gaming

btw i game stock.

asus has a ai cooling scoring that adjust the vcore to keep it stable

octvb roberto guide has tvb voltage optimization which helps reduce the vcore based on temps.

all this features were designed to help 4 season issues


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Spiriva said:


> Is there any sort of recommendation from Intel what V not to cross for 24/7 use? I can run 5.5ghz on all cores but it needs ~1.450V to be "game/3dmark stable" at those speed.
> I have not tested Cinebench r23 at 5.5 yet tho.


Intel will always recommend running to specifications...
We never do that...LOL...And Intel knows it.
Heat and current will degrade the CPU.
So, if you want your CPU running for decades, follow the specifications.
If your voltage is 1.50v, and you keep the CPU cool and with low power most of the time, it will survive.


----------



## ilmazzo

cstkl1 said:


> silicon lottery + mobo accuracy in delivering correct vcore
> 
> thats the reason for sp, ai feature, octvb etc
> get the max out of the cpu with good thermals.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...
> 
> 
> So where would you start step by step ? Do I start there : LLC, AC_LL & DC_LL: ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


great non response!!!!


----------



## cstkl1

ilmazzo said:


> great non response!!!!


if a person could respond.. he must be "seer of the ages"..

even gandalf cant give an exact answer


----------



## carlhil2

fray_bentos said:


> Loving all these ADL build pics with empty DDR5 RAM slots.


Here, have another. LOL..


----------



## dante`afk

sugi0lover said:


> 12900K (SP 103) @5.4Ghz . CineR23 for 10 min
> 
> LLC4, 1.43v
> Cooling : Mora 360
> Temp : 23.7C~25C
> 
> View attachment 2531759


this is excellent, I'd imagine 5-10c better temps with delid.




Spiriva said:


> This is my cpu. 12900k (sp88, made in china), 5.4ghz all core. LLC 6, i have the volt set to 1.41V in bios, cpu-z seem to report 1.385V tho.
> E-cores at 4.1ghz.
> 
> I got 2x 480 rads with 16x Noctua NF-A12x25 fans in push/pull.


load stable?


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> stock shouldnt. the cpu not hot gaming
> 
> btw i game stock.
> 
> asus has a ai cooling scoring that adjust the vcore to keep it stable
> 
> octvb roberto guide has tvb voltage optimization which helps reduce the vcore based on temps.
> 
> all this features were designed to help 4 season issues


Playing BF V 1 hour. 12900k per core (looks like 5.1 all core in BF V)
Hottest core is 61c with Arctic AIO and 25c ambient.


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Playing BF V 1 hour. 12900k per core (looks like 5.1 all core in BF V)
> Hottest core is 61c with Arctic AIO and 25c ambient.


yeah. this cpu superb on gaming.


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> 25c ambient.


In Norway?! May I suggest you open the windows at least once per week for 5min, otherwise I'll be concerned as to how long you will keep on posting here...


----------



## mongoled

No 12600k results by OC net members ??

Im interested to see a CB23 with only P cores enabled at default settings to see the score ...


----------



## carlhil2

That other pic didn't do justice to the missing ram.


----------



## roooo

carlhil2 said:


> That other pic didn't do justice to the missing ram.
> View attachment 2531809


So sad. Like a Lamborghini without tires ... :-(


----------



## carlhil2

roooo said:


> So sad. Like a Lamborghini without tires ... :-(


Amazon charged me last night. supposedly for today delivery. Crucial til better is released..


----------



## roooo

carlhil2 said:


> Amazon charged me last night. supposedly for today delivery. Crucial til better is released..


I have a kit of Kingston Value 4800C40 lying here but could not be bothered to disassemble my current 12900+DDR4 build yet. Good luck with the delivery!


----------



## Krawk

Do I do a core i9-12900k or a core i9-12900kf?
I use a RTX3080Ti for graphics so if I can find one, do I go the kf version instead just because I won't use the integrated gpu portion? Some of the benchmarking sites seem to show there are differences between the two and there should not be really. Does the integrated gpu also add instruction sets that make compressing video better?


----------



## roooo

I guess it's too early to draw conclusions for ADL in this regard. Would you give us some links for those benchmarking sites?

Personally, if performance is expected to be equal, I'd factor in the resale value, which should be higher for the K version. With the last generations (CML, RKL) I did not see any benefits with the KF, but that's just me.


----------



## rulik006

Krawk said:


> Do I do a core i9-12900k or a core i9-12900kf?
> I use a RTX3080Ti for graphics so if I can find one, do I go the kf version instead just because I won't use the integrated gpu portion? Some of the benchmarking sites seem to show there are differences between the two and there should not be really. Does the integrated gpu also add instruction sets that make compressing video better?


12700K


----------



## roooo

Krawk said:


> Do I do a core i9-12900k or a core i9-12900kf?





rulik006 said:


> 12700K


She: "Honey - if you had to, would you chose me or the other girl?" He: "Um...football?!"


----------



## Spiriva

dante`afk said:


> this is excellent, I'd imagine 5-10c better temps with delid.
> load stable?


It works in games/3dmark. I havent tried cinebench (and alike) yet. 
5.5ghz all core needs ~1.450V


----------



## rulik006

roooo said:


> She: "Honey - if you had to, would you chose me or the other girl?" He: "Um...football?!"


People want buy 12900k, but for real they don't need it


----------



## WebsterRKL

You gents are doing an amazing job! Woohoo! 

12900K
1) Is 5.3Ghz All-Core possible on air as a daily? 
2) Is 5.5Ghz Per Core (Single-Core) possible on air under any circumstances?

Is anyone even running good air? lol


----------



## cstkl1

WebsterRKL said:


> You gents are doing an amazing job! Woohoo!
> 
> 12900K
> 1) Is 5.3Ghz All-Core possible on air as a daily?
> 2) Is 5.5Ghz Per Core (Single-Core) possible on air under any circumstances?
> 
> Is anyone even running good air? lol


1) yes. sp 103 in Greenland. lol. 
2) yes with the caveat above

but in all seriousness. once ppl start getting better chipset. y even oc..


----------



## roooo

WebsterRKL said:


> You gents are doing an amazing job! Woohoo!
> 
> 12900K
> 1) Is 5.3Ghz All-Core possible on air as a daily?
> 2) Is 5.5Ghz Per Core (Single-Core) possible on air under any circumstances?
> 
> Is anyone even running good air? lol


Nope, most of us are running bad air! 🙃 

As far as my experience with an SP85 chip goes: Unlikely, if you do not have a very capable chip. I'm running a custom loop with 420 and 360 rads and Noctua industrial fans and 53/55 are not stable under all circumstances.


----------



## WebsterRKL

Whoops. This post went to the wrong thread, lol 

Never have too many windows open... 

I'm trying to help a guy with a fan duct mod open air to internal chassis mod- Noctua Cooler to panel door, sorry about that fellas.


----------



## roooo

That's what window managers are for...


----------



## roooo

cstkl1 said:


> but in all seriousness. once ppl start getting better chipset. y even oc..


LOL...someone pinch me - was it really you asking that?!


----------



## WebsterRKL

roooo said:


> LOL...someone pinch me - was it really you asking that?!


For benching and values and hobby aspect - keep on OC'ing lol.

But I understand what cstkl1 means. For a daily, I began simply running my RKL CPU at stock since the CPU OC adds almost no improved responsiveness above and beyond the superhigh Hynix DJR 5866Mhz CL21 DDR4 profile - adding even 5.1Ghz CPU simply adds more heat to manage.

*Not certain if the same is true with ADL.*

At least I think that's what cstkl1 "might" mean - under certain circumstances. lol 

Carry on Good Gents, and wishing you the Best Of Luck!


----------



## roooo

Yeah I think I got his point so was rather joking ;-)

In terms of responsiveness - I'm using Linux 99% of the time and there's plenty of options for tweaking using specific kernels tuned for responsiveness instead of throughput. It is a lot more fun working under such environment than under Windows. When I'm running scientific calculations with all cores fully loaded, I can still switch windows and perform other tasks without noticing any lag and though these kernels are not optimized for throughput, the CPU performance penalty is marginal. And with these calculations, O/C impact is definitely there because it does matter if the calc takes for example 4 and a half or 5 hours. Under Windows, the high performance is only relevant for me for casual gaming.


----------



## nievz

Why do ASUS boards have the lowest VRM temps compared to more beefy VRM from MSI and Gigabyte? Are they pumping less voltage by defaults?


----------



## Carillo

cstkl1 said:


> [email protected] Retail - 53|42
> 2x16gb 6400C30-37-37-28-1T 280
> 
> 3dmark PR - 13224
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 13 224 in Port Royal
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 x 1, 32614 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3dmark TS - 20704 (20353 | 22947)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 20 704 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 x 1, 32614 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


What batchnumber does this chip have ? Have tested two Vietnam chips, both SP80 :/


----------



## geriatricpollywog

nievz said:


> Why do ASUS boards have the lowest VRM temps compared to more beefy VRM from MSI and Gigabyte? Are they pumping less voltage by defaults?
> 
> View attachment 2531846


VRM temp doesn’t matter! Smart power stages are rated to 125C. What matters is how hot a CPU runs on the motherboard.

My CPU ran cooler on my Maximus 13 Apex than it did on my MSI Z490 Unify.

My CPU ran cooler on my ASRock Z590 OC Formula than it did on my Maximus 13 Apex.

Higher VRM switching frequency causes the VRM to run hotter but CPU to run cooler.


----------



## roooo

Carillo said:


> What batchnumber does this chip have ? Have tested two Vietnam chips, both SP80 :/


What are yours? My Chinese SP85 is V136J515.


----------



## Carillo

roooo said:


> What are yours? My Chinese SP85 is V136J515.


X141J925

I have a new china chip just arrived, not tested V138I889


----------



## roooo

0451 said:


> Higher VRM switching frequency causes the VRM to run hotter but CPU to run cooler.


Talking of which - the Strix-A D4 allows to set VRM switching frequency but there is no dropdown with presets as with my Apex Z590. Any suggestions about a sensible setting, this also @RobertoSampaio and @Falkentyne? Or is it best left on auto?


----------



## Carillo

roooo said:


> Talking of which - the Strix-A D4 allows to set VRM switching frequency but there is no dropdown with presets as with my Apex Z590. Any suggestions about a sensible setting, this also @RobertoSampaio and @Falkentyne? Or is it best left on auto?


500KHz if your VRM's can handle it


----------



## roooo

Carillo said:


> 500KHz if your VRM's can handle it


Yeah that's a bit awkward because AFAIK it's not specified in what units (Hz, kHz, ?) the frequency should be set...or I did no read properly... 
I think I had it on 800 kHz on the Apex/11900k.


----------



## skullbringer

Anyone know what a "T" suffix to the batch number means?
V134J500
V134J365T
both are 12900k boxed


----------



## Nizzen

skullbringer said:


> Anyone know what a "T" suffix to the batch number means?
> V134J500
> V134J365T
> both are 12900k boxed


t-bag? 😂


----------



## roooo

skullbringer said:


> Anyone know what a "T" suffix to the batch number means?
> V134J500
> V134J365T
> both are 12900k boxed


If the SP is lower than 60, you may guess an abbreviation ...
Seriously - no idea.


----------



## Arni90

roooo said:


> Talking of which - the Strix-A D4 allows to set VRM switching frequency but there is no dropdown with presets as with my Apex Z590. Any suggestions about a sensible setting, this also @RobertoSampaio and @Falkentyne? Or is it best left on auto?


Barring weird BIOS/VRM quirks, just max out the frequency.
16 power stages shouldn't have an issue with ~300A max power draw, even at 1 MHz


----------



## Spiriva

Does AIDA64 memory benchmark work for you? Latency says 0.0, is got the latest beta version of Aida64 "6.50.5806 Beta"


----------



## WebsterRKL

roooo said:


> If the SP is lower than 60, you may guess an abbreviation ...
> Seriously - no idea.


T-suffix is for "turd" CPU and SP.


----------



## Nizzen

Spiriva said:


> Does AIDA64 memory benchmark work for you? Latency says 0.0, is got the latest beta version of Aida64 "6.50.5806 Beta"


Works in win 10 only for DDR 5


----------



## Cuthalu

Are Z690 DDR4 motherboards supposed to have vccsio-setting? If so, what's it named on Gigabyte boards?


----------



## D-EJ915

CENS said:


> Thx bro, he is already using that one damn. Any special drivers like Intel ME or similar you need? Or known incompatibility with OS?


I think it does require ME from using it before. I know I had an issue like this when I moved an ssd from Z390 to Z490.



nievz said:


> Why do ASUS boards have the lowest VRM temps compared to more beefy VRM from MSI and Gigabyte? Are they pumping less voltage by defaults?


different programming on vrm controllers


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> What batchnumber does this chip have ? Have tested two Vietnam chips, both SP80 :/


post it here few days ago.


----------



## MoeBen

12900K Corsair 360 AIO Cheap Crucial DDR5 ..... im happy


----------



## Talon2016

MoeBen said:


> View attachment 2531872
> 
> 
> 12900K Corsair 360 AIO Cheap Crucial DDR5 ..... im happy


Nice! How far can you push your ram?


----------



## MoeBen

Talon2016 said:


> Nice! How far can you push your ram?


 It's a 4800 set so far running at 5000 ... trying 5200 in a few mins


----------



## GRABibus

Spiriva said:


> Does AIDA64 memory benchmark work for you? Latency says 0.0, is got the latest beta version of Aida64 "6.50.5806 Beta"


The best latencies I’ve ever seen


----------



## geriatricpollywog

MoeBen said:


> View attachment 2531872
> 
> 
> 12900K Corsair 360 AIO Cheap Crucial DDR5 ..... im happy


Thanks for sharing! Would you please post Cinebench R20 with full HWInfo64?


----------



## sugi0lover

It may be just a coincidence. So please don't generalize.
Two Sp 103 and this SP97 all out of the same Vietman week 31.
(Edit: 2 Sp103 posted here before, no new 103)
The other SP 103. No specific info!


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> It may be just a coincidence. So please don't generalize.
> Two Sp 103 and this SP97 out of Vietman week 31.
> View attachment 2531878


Lucky find! 2 out of how many? What’s your sample size?


----------



## MoeBen

0451 said:


> Thanks for sharing! Would you please post Cinebench R20 with full HWInfo64?


Oh Sure :


----------



## warbucks

Spoke with James at Rockitcool yesterday. He said they should have a delid/relid kit and direct die frame available within the next few weeks for the 12th gen cpus.


----------



## sugi0lover

0451 said:


> Lucky find! 2 out of how many? What’s your sample size?


Not mine. from my friends. I posted thses before.
One 103 out of 7 12900ks (not the same week)
The other 103 out of 8 12900ks (not the same week)
And i don't have enough data, but heard many SP 90s out of vietnam week 31.Please don't generalize.


----------



## 七海nana7mi

my friend sent me，this is most outrageous thing ihave ever seen


----------



## MoeBen




----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> Not mine. from my friends. I posted thses before.
> One 103 out of 7 12900ks (not the same week)
> The other 103 out of 8 12900ks (not the same week)
> And i don't have enough data, but heard many SP 90s out of vietnam week 31.Please don't generalize.


Wow! When I go to my neighborhood Microcenter this weekend I will definitely look for “Made in Vietnam” on the box before I go to the checkout line.


----------



## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> View attachment 2531883


first giga SS.


----------



## MoeBen

cstkl1 said:


> First giga SS.


Yup... Miss that SP Prediction From Asus  but overall Solid Board


----------



## acoustic

MoeBen said:


> Yup... Miss that SP Prediction From Asus  but overall Solid Board


Have they made any updates to the BIOS layout? I know that's one of the biggest issues most people have had with Gigabyte .. and the poor memory OCing on DDR4. Hoping they turn it around .. we definitely need more competition to reel in ASUS going banana's with the pricing.


----------



## MoeBen

acoustic said:


> Have they made any updates to the BIOS layout? I know that's one of the biggest issues most people have had with Gigabyte .. and the poor memory OCing on DDR4. Hoping they turn it around .. we definitely need more competition to reel in ASUS going banana's with the pricing.


Unfortunately no .... I still hate the bios layout with every cell I have


----------



## cstkl1

MoeBen said:


> Yup... Miss that SP Prediction From Asus  but overall Solid Board


cpu oc i think most boards arnd the same
asus has more options for benching, gaming, hardcore enthusiast stable

its ram where we need to see all their xmps
msi seems interested in winning CES inmovation award rather than day 1 sales

giga very quiet.


----------



## ViTosS

MoeBen said:


> Oh Sure :
> 
> View attachment 2531880


Interesting how the E-Cores are so precisely close core to core delta and the P-Cores huge deviation, maybe delid can help with that?


----------



## WebsterRKL

Why doesn't someone startup a simple North American SP binning business for profit? SL is gone.

If SP means so much, give us 13900Ks and 14900Ks - high binned for next gen.


----------



## MoeBen

ViTosS said:


> Interesting how the E-Cores are so precisely close core to core delta and the P-Cores huge deviation, maybe delid can help with that?


Until I get proper delid tool ... won't gamble a 12900K


----------



## cstkl1

WebsterRKL said:


> Why doesn't someone startup a simple North American SP binning business for profit? SL is gone.
> 
> If SP means so much, give us 13900Ks and 14900Ks - high binned for next gen.


SL conjob over. restart a new con? 

SP atm on this gen really aligned to the cpu. so far. 

bound to have batches that will defy this.


----------



## WebsterRKL

cstkl1 said:


> SL conjob over. restart a new con?
> SP atm on this gen really aligned to the cpu. so far.
> bound to have batches that will defy this.


I felt SL guy extremely honest, oh well maybe just me. but at least he searched for the upper tier.

Is SP binning the future and only way - or do I buy next gen from Der8auer-CaseKing?


----------



## cstkl1

WebsterRKL said:


> I felt SL guy extremely honest, oh well maybe just me. but at least he searched for the upper tier.
> 
> Is SP binning the future and only way - or do I buy next gen from Der8auer-CaseKing?


i dont think so. he scouts the net seeing how ppl test and copies without actually coming up his own way. very vague on his testing and very conditional. 


atm way ram are so scarce. personal opinion just get the cpu enjoy its ipc and gaming low power use.

the other day was benching sottr, then F1 2020. looked good. then realized i had 3 games open in the background. lol


----------



## Falkentyne

WebsterRKL said:


> Why doesn't someone startup a simple North American SP binning business for profit? SL is gone.
> 
> If SP means so much, give us 13900Ks and 14900Ks - high binned for next gen.


The entire problem is you to be RICH to do that.
Not everyone on these forums is rich (even though from some of the stuff some people buy, a LOT of you guys are literally made out of money).
Not only do you need to be rich, you need to be able to re-sell all the opened CPU's that are average, without losing too much money. Which means you need enough high bins to COVER the loss of the ones you will have to eat the cost of from the low bins. And who in their right mind is going to intentionally buy a low SP CPU?

You would need a really kickass business management method to handle that. Sure you may get one out of 15 SP-100 CPU's and all the others are SP-79, you sell the SP-100 for $1400, then each SP79 you sell for a $50 loss unless it's unopened otherwise no one would want them, so in other words you need tray chips, and if it's pre-tested, you need to sell them to people who don't know or don't care about bins. Then you made no profit whatsoever from your SP100...

You would have to get volume pricing from Intel and then sell them as tray OEM at cost...

This isn't something some average random user is going to be able to do without company logistics...


----------



## WebsterRKL

Ok Cool. 

What about those of us who want to buy a pre-binned CPU for Raptor and Meteor, has that become parallel to buying a pre-built?

Pre bin = Pre built

Do we purchase 20CPUs and return within 30day window - the slow motion duds and t-suffix turds?


----------



## WebsterRKL

Falkentyne said:


> The entire problem is you to be RICH to do that.
> Not everyone on these forums is rich (even though from some of the stuff some people buy, a LOT of you guys are literally made out of money).
> Not only do you need to be rich, you need to be able to re-sell all the opened CPU's that are average, without losing too much money. Which means you need enough high bins to COVER the loss of the ones you will have to eat the cost of from the low bins. And who in their right mind is going to intentionally buy a low SP CPU?
> 
> You would need a really kickass business management method to handle that. Sure you may get one out of 15 SP-100 CPU's and all the others are SP-79, you sell the SP-100 for $1400, then each SP79 you sell for a $50 loss unless it's unopened otherwise no one would want them, so in other words you need tray chips, and if it's pre-tested, you need to sell them to people who don't know or don't care about bins. Then you made no profit whatsoever from your SP100...
> 
> You would have to get volume pricing from Intel and then sell them as tray OEM at cost...
> 
> This isn't something some average random user is going to be able to do without company logistics...


So I'll need to buy Raptor Lake pre-binned from CaseKing (Der8auer) with a German proxy buyer, dayum. 

CaseKing refuses to ship to USA.


----------



## WebsterRKL

And while we're on the topic, why doesn't some small group begin to bin SP and IMC in North America?

Wishful thinking maybe, but why doesn't anyone bin IMC?


----------



## cstkl1

WebsterRKL said:


> And while we're on the topic, why doesn't some small group begin to bin SP and IMC in North America?
> 
> Wishful thinking maybe, but why doesn't anyone bin IMC?


imc = good rams = good ocer

the time requires to test imc takes very long. when its over say the best imc = 10x retail price. would ppl pay bro?


----------



## WebsterRKL

Ok, so the Intel Processor IMC is no longer a variable at all? 

That's cool, one less thing to worry about!


----------



## cstkl1

WebsterRKL said:


> Ok, so the Intel Processor IMC is no longer a variable at all?
> 
> That's cool, one less thing to worry about!


no idea. sample size small


----------



## WebsterRKL

cstkl1 said:


> no idea. sample size small


Whoa! Spoken like a true scientist who attended an actual university! Bonus Points! 

Holy Mother of God (LIke)! 

The new MSI Z690 GodLike EEE-ATX!


----------



## D-EJ915

WebsterRKL said:


> Whoa! Spoken like a true scientist who attended an actual university! Bonus Points!
> 
> Holy Mother of God (LIke)!
> 
> The new MSI Z690 GodLike EEE-ATX!


at this point is it a motherboard or a cpu frame lol


----------



## WebsterRKL

D-EJ915 said:


> at this point is it a motherboard or a cpu frame lol


The high-end as pointless and useless as the low-end. 

A shipload of MSI GodLikes headed to United Arab Emirates.


----------



## Exilon

What exactly is this voltage on a DDR4 Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite motherboard? I thought VDDQ was tied to VDD








but my Gigabyte board has a separate DRAM voltage sensor reading 1.5V


----------



## Spiriva

Nizzen said:


> Works in win 10 only for DDR 5


Ah okay, thnx man!


----------



## 911gt3

roooo said:


> Yeah I think I got his point so was rather joking ;-)
> 
> In terms of responsiveness - I'm using Linux 99% of the time and there's plenty of options for tweaking using specific kernels tuned for responsiveness instead of throughput. It is a lot more fun working under such environment than under Windows. When I'm running scientific calculations with all cores fully loaded, I can still switch windows and perform other tasks without noticing any lag and though these kernels are not optimized for throughput, the CPU performance penalty is marginal. And with these calculations, O/C impact is definitely there because it does matter if the calc takes for example 4 and a half or 5 hours. Under Windows, the high performance is only relevant for me for casual gaming.



What kernels are you running? I'm on 5.15.1 mainline.

As for the IP question get the k. My old 3770k is now running as a cloujd server with 8drives in raid6. No GPU, removed the videos card and just use the onboard. My 11900k is now at my office running VMs while I design a database., it's GPU is in my new 12900k rig. It's SP 81, running 5.3/4.0 at 1.39v on an Asus Maximum z690 Hero. Running 3NVME drives on the PCH using Linux raid and I have a hardware SATA raid card in it with 2 SSD caching and 6 2tb drives in Raid5 backing up my cloud. 

So what I am saying is most people only ever have one gaming rig and removing the GPU frees up PCIe lanes for future use say as a home server.


----------



## roooo

911gt3 said:


> What kernels are you running? I'm on 5.15.1 mainline.


5.14.0-17.1-liquorix-amd64. Tried 5.15.1 but performance was somewhat lower. I'm running / vs. /home as well as VBoxes on two different Optanes, so that adds to the responsiveness. I was hoping we're gonna see Optane DC Persistent Memory in the end-user market, but it appears that's gonna stay wishful thinking.... :-(


----------



## safedisk

ROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME DDR5 OC TEST
6200 32-37-37-28 2T 1.4v

Performance settings are very stable
Memory no air cooling so temp hot 63c but HCI still run haha


----------



## GtiJason

WebsterRKL said:


> So I'll need to buy Raptor Lake pre-binned from CaseKing (Der8auer) with a German proxy buyer, dayum.
> 
> CaseKing refuses to ship to USA.


They used to ship to the US, at least pre pandemic. You had to get in contact with a sales agent first though


----------



## Nizzen

WebsterRKL said:


> Whoa! Spoken like a true scientist who attended an actual university! Bonus Points!
> 
> Holy Mother of God (LIke)!
> 
> The new MSI Z690 GodLike EEE-ATX!
> 
> View attachment 2531896


Epic fail with cover over DDR5 slots. Delta fan under the cover anyone?


----------



## MaghX

WebsterRKL said:


> Wishful thinking maybe, but why doesn't anyone bin IMC?


hmm, is there any correlation between asus SP and IMC bin?
Maybe not even direct, but statistically IMC will be better with high SP?


----------



## Cuthalu

Exilon said:


> What exactly is this voltage on a DDR4 Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite motherboard? I thought VDDQ was tied to VDD
> View attachment 2531898
> 
> but my Gigabyte board has a separate DRAM voltage sensor reading 1.5V


That's "Dram vdd/vddq" on bios. Auto seems to overvolt it quite a bit, mine was 1.4v on auto on scuffed 3400 xmp with 4*8gb bdie. Btw, can you manually set trefi and boot? My Gaming X DDR4 refuses to do anything with manual value even if it's the same as auto value.


----------



## Nizzen

WebsterRKL said:


> And while we're on the topic, why doesn't some small group begin to bin SP and IMC in North America?
> 
> Wishful thinking maybe, but why doesn't anyone bin IMC?


Because there is no FAST memory to bin with! We binned 8086 for memory OC, but 10900k imc often was good enough for the kits we had. Many 10900k did 4700c17 with good enough memorykit.


----------



## cstkl1

MaghX said:


> hmm, is there any correlation between asus SP and IMC bin?
> Maybe not even direct, but statistically IMC will be better with high SP?


not enough ram for ppl to test to make that conclusion for adl

but generally true for rkl/cml sp90-100


----------



## GRABibus

MoeBen said:


> Oh Sure :
> 
> View attachment 2531880


The single core performance is just more amazing than the multithread one 😊


----------



## anubis1127

Cuthalu said:


> That's "Dram vdd/vddq" on bios. Auto seems to overvolt it quite a bit, mine was 1.4v on auto on scuffed 3400 xmp with 4*8gb bdie. Btw, can you manually set trefi and boot? My Gaming X DDR4 refuses to do anything with manual value even if it's the same as auto value.


I'm using Z690 Elite AX DDR4, and can manually set trefi, and boot. 










That is when I can actually get memory settings to POST, seems very finicky, many of my XMP DDR4 kits are failing to even POST with just XMP set out of the box.


----------



## sugi0lover

My first 12th gen OC.
My 12900K is only SP80 and DDR5 is the cheapest one Hynix 4800 CL40.
I am going to change the higher SP 12900K soon, and get the high spec DDR5 when it's available.
For a while, here is the result.

CPU : 12900K (SP80) / P Cores 5.3Ghz / E Cores 4.2Ghz / Cache 4.5Ghz
Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
Ram OC : 6200Mhz-30-35-35-28-268-2T (Gear 2)
MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0702)
Voltages : CPU 1.335v / VDD 1.390v / VDDQ 1.300v / MC 1.200v / SA Auto


----------



## roooo

Question to the experts: are VF curves read from the CPU or calculated 'live' by the BIOS? That is, if let's say I set a CPU throttle temperature of 30C in BIOS (just hypothetical) and slap in a new CPU, then the new CPU should be throttled from the start. Will this influence the VF data shown?


----------



## Nizzen

sugi0lover said:


> My first 12th gen OC.
> My 12900K is only SP80 and DDR5 is the cheapest one Hynix 4800 CL40.
> I am going to change the higher SP 12900K soon, and get the high spec DDR5 when it's available.
> For a while, here is the result.
> 
> CPU : 12900K (SP80) / P Cores 5.3Ghz / E Cores 4.2Ghz / Cache 4.5Ghz
> Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
> Ram OC : 6200Mhz-30-35-35-28-268-2T (Gear 2)
> MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0702)
> Voltages : CPU 1.335v / VDD 1.390v / VDDQ 1.300v / MC 1.200v / SA Auto
> 
> View attachment 2531957
> 
> 
> View attachment 2531960
> 
> 
> View attachment 2531959


Nice job!
Where did you get the Hynix DDR 5 from?


----------



## sugi0lover

Nizzen said:


> Nice job!
> Where did you get the Hynix DDR 5 from?


Thanks for your kind words~ 
Hynix DDR5 is for sale in Korean PC stores. 
For 2 16GB Rams, USD 406 (10% Tax included)


----------



## acoustic

roooo said:


> Question to the experts: are VF curves read from the CPU or calculated 'live' by the BIOS? That is, if let's say I set a CPU throttle temperature of 30C in BIOS (just hypothetical) and slap in a new CPU, then the new CPU should be throttled from the start. Will this influence the VF data shown?


They're set numbers by Intel on the CPU itself.


----------



## Bocraft




----------



## Bocraft




----------



## Nizzen

So how does Optane 900p pci-e 3.0 work on Alder Lake and windows 11?
4k Random read @QD=1 -> 342MB/s


----------



## roooo

Nizzen said:


> So how does Optane 900p pci-e 3.0 work on Alder Lake and windows 11?
> 4k Random read @QD=1 -> 342MB/s
> 
> 
> View attachment 2531971


Thats pretty pretty decent, didn't test under ADL yet but with 900p Win10 RKL I only got like 317MB/s....


----------



## MoeBen

GRABibus said:


> The single core performance is just more amazing than the multithread one 😊


indeed ... but I think raptor lake will change that


----------



## ThinbinJim

Nizzen said:


> So how does Optane 900p pci-e 3.0 work on Alder Lake and windows 11?
> 4k Random read @QD=1 -> 342MB/s
> 
> 
> View attachment 2531971


Win11 has worse QD1 performance on my 905p
260MBps to 190MBps on my 9900k from win10 to win11
My 12900k does around 290MBps with the 905p on win11, haven't tried win10.

I'm running my 905p through a u.2 to pcie adapter plugged into the chipset x4 lanes if that matters.


----------



## anubis1127

Does Aida64 Extreme v6.50.5800 Cache and Memory Benchmark, specifically the latency test, work with Alder Lake and Windows 11 with DDR4? I can't seem to get it to run the Latency test, get the message about it not being optimized for the CPU. 

Verified VBS turned off, any other OS, or BIOS settings I could be missing? Also tested beta .5806 with same result.


----------



## Nizzen

anubis1127 said:


> Does Aida64 Extreme v6.50.5800 Cache and Memory Benchmark, specifically the latency test, work with Alder Lake and Windows 11 with DDR4? I can't seem to get it to run the Latency test, get the message about it not being optimized for the CPU.
> 
> Verified VBS turned off, any other OS, or BIOS settings I could be missing? Also tested beta .5806 with same result.
> 
> View attachment 2531977


Try to turn on, then off like I did. Worked for me.


----------



## MoeBen

Still on a Cheap AIO ... but my 12900K seems decent benching at 5.4/5.5 P cores no sweat ... Running Toasty but still impressive


----------



## anubis1127

Nizzen said:


> Try to turn on, then off like I did. Worked for me.


Thanks for the suggestion, tried turning VBS on, reboot, turn off, reboot, but no luck here still.


----------



## Exilon

anubis1127 said:


> I'm using Z690 Elite AX DDR4, and can manually set trefi, and boot.
> 
> View attachment 2531934
> 
> 
> That is when I can actually get memory settings to POST, seems very finicky, many of my XMP DDR4 kits are failing to even POST with just XMP set out of the box.


Yeah I have the same board and I had to drop by kits by 133 to get it to boot on the same primary timings, and secondary timings are looser as well.

Serves me right for going Gigabyte after the poor memory OC experience with previous Gigabyte boards lol.


----------



## Exilon

Speaking of Gigabyte boards, does anyone know the LLC ohms for their standard/low/medium/high/turbo/extreme?


----------



## Esenel

Let's start.
But had to borrow the DDR5.

SP84.


----------



## 七海nana7mi

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for your kind words~
> Hynix DDR5 is for sale in Korean PC stores.
> For 2 16GB Rams, USD 406 (10% Tax included)


only Samsung v05pcb 6vb bcqk in China sell，now
i think thisperformance no good
my rok friend has bought 16*4 for me，yesterday send，i think this will good performance，hynix ddr5 not sold in china.


----------



## roooo

Esenel said:


> Let's start.
> But had to borrow the DDR5.
> 
> SP84.
> 
> View attachment 2531989
> 
> View attachment 2531990
> 
> View attachment 2531988


Could be worse  
What batch is it?


----------



## Esenel

roooo said:


> Could be worse
> What batch is it?


----------



## cstkl1

m


七海nana7mi said:


> only Samsung v05pcb 6vb bcqk in China sell，now
> i think thisperformance no good
> my rok friend has bought 16*4 for me，yesterday send，i think this will good performance，hynix ddr5 not sold in china.


pmic - high dram works?


----------



## 七海nana7mi

cstkl1 said:


> m
> 
> pmic - high dram works?


Samsung v05 bcp，dram voltage only up to 1.435v
but，in spite of,it's still more powerful than electronic junk like micron.


----------



## Falkentyne

Exilon said:


> Speaking of Gigabyte boards, does anyone know the LLC ohms for their standard/low/medium/high/turbo/extreme?


You need to calculate it yourself if they still have VR VOUT and Current IOUT on fixed vcore (not adaptive).
C-states disabled.

Set idle, look at VR VOUT and Current IOUT. Reference that with Bios fixed vcore set, and start with your bios fixed voltage setting for the initial value (e.g. 0 amps).

(I believe gigabyte fixed mode is the correct setting; Override mode i think changes VID not vcore).

Look at load, look at VR VOUT load and current IOUT. at idle and then at full load.
Convert V to mV

and use the formula V=I * R 
with R=resistance (LLC) as your unknown.
That's the most you can do here.


----------



## kmellz

Fun has arrived! Now.. just waiting for the fun to begin >____> Will HOPEFULLY get the 1700 bracket next week, until then probably gonna play around with the RAM a bit.
12700kf, strix z690-a D4, Corsair 32GB 4600MHz CL18 Vengeance RGB RT
RAM seems interesting, brand new kit(?) with nice timings and volt for that speed, at a decent price, for sweden at least.


----------



## MoeBen

Cleaned up Post Custom loop Setup
12900K @ 5.2P 4.2E 24H Stable Temps Bellow 78C (Corsair Aio)
32GB Crutial DDR5 4800 @ 5200
Aorus Z690 Master
750W PLAT Psu
Waiting on a 6800XT

hopefully ill squeeze a bit more juice with the loop


----------



## Carillo

Still waiting for DDR5


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Carillo said:


> Still waiting for DDR5
> 
> View attachment 2532026


Is that Gear 1? SR or DR? Did you limit maximum memory?


----------



## Carillo

0451 said:


> Is that Gear 1? SR or DR? Did you limit maximum memory?


Gear 1, SR, NO limits... G.skill F4-4800C17D-16GTRG


----------



## domdtxdissar

Carillo said:


> Still waiting for DDR5
> 
> View attachment 2532026


Very nice 
I actually think that will perform better in games than all the ddr5 memory on sale today, even when the ddr5 memory its max tuned to ~6400-6600 MT/s with tightened timings


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Thread updated...









ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...


Disclaimer ! These settings and methods are outside Intel's specifications, just like any other overclocking method. ---------------------------------------------------- For Z790/13900K click here Introduction: In a world increasingly concerned with natural resources, the watchword is...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Antsu

Carillo said:


> Gear 1, SR, NO limits... G.skill F4-4800C17D-16GTRG


Impressive. Any chance for some gaming benchmarks? It's getting harder every day to resist the urge to buy a DDR4 board... I have a 4800C17 kit coming that I ordered a long time ago, I was going to cancel it but seeing this and knowing my local shop has that exact board and 12900K's in stock... Damn.


----------



## sugi0lover

Carillo said:


> Still waiting for DDR5
> 
> View attachment 2532026


Very nice. Ram stable setting? Or bench setting?


----------



## ViTosS

Carillo said:


> Still waiting for DDR5
> 
> View attachment 2532026


Nice! Would be cool to see a comparison between your DDR4 setup and @cstkl1 DDR5 setup in game benchmarks


----------



## Skinnered

I dont know if any of you play games with this cpu, but I tried Far Cry 5/6 reshade rtgi, Skyrim Skse64, SE enb+reshade rtgi reshade, but I all get is geen screens of deaths. Any experience the same?
These are not listed as incompatible
Testing more soon.


----------



## Carillo

Antsu said:


> Impressive. Any chance for some gaming benchmarks? It's getting harder every day to resist the urge to buy a DDR4 board... I have a 4800C17 kit coming that I ordered a long time ago, I was going to cancel it but seeing this and knowing my local shop has that exact board and 12900K's in stock... Damn.


Thanks  Yeah the Micron kits available on the market right now, is sad... And my Apex is just laying around doing nothing... I will do som benchmarks. What do you want to see ?


----------



## Carillo

sugi0lover said:


> Very nice. Ram stable setting? Or bench setting?


Thanks  70% HCI so far... working on stability


----------



## Carillo

domdtxdissar said:


> Very nice
> I actually think that will perform better in games than all the ddr5 memory on sale today, even when the ddr5 memory its max tuned to ~6400-6600 MT/s with tightened timings


Thanks man. I agree


----------



## geriatricpollywog

This is great news for DRR4! @Carillo you’re the man! I’m going to try both the Strix and Gigabyte itx


----------



## sniperpowa

just need some ddr5 lol. I bought a cheap msi z690 pro put some bdie I had laying around in it.


----------



## carlhil2

Just a quick OC. will get busy over weekend. didn't touch ram/cache yet. China chip. SP 82, 91 for P-cores..


----------



## sniperpowa

I scored 21 978 in Time Spy 
Timespy on a $200 board haven’t started playing with the timings yet. Hate not having a cmos button lol.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sniperpowa said:


> I scored 21 978 in Time Spy
> Timespy on a $200 board haven’t started playing with the timings yet. Hate not having a cmos button lol.
> View attachment 2532098


I can probably top this overall score with my 11900K. Not with a $200 board though. Were you running dry ice for your 10900K score?









I scored 21 941 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## GSKILL SUPPORT

GSKILL SUPPORT said:


> The first Trident Z5 kits should be available for purchase in the upcoming weeks. NewEgg.com typically has new products available first so that is likely the best place to keep a look out.


Listings have popped up, however they show OOS, so for now may be best to get on the Auto-Notify list:









gskill z5 | Newegg.com


Search Newegg.com for gskill z5. Get fast shipping and top-rated customer service.




www.newegg.com


----------



## geriatricpollywog

GSKILL SUPPORT said:


> Listings have popped up, however they show OOS, so for now may be best to get on the Auto-Notify list:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gskill z5 | Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Search Newegg.com for gskill z5. Get fast shipping and top-rated customer service.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com


Thank you!


----------



## RobertoSampaio

One core to 57x









3 cores to 58x
All core to 57x










😎😎😎😎










ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...


Disclaimer ! These settings and methods are outside Intel's specifications, just like any other overclocking method. ---------------------------------------------------- For Z790/13900K click here Introduction: In a world increasingly concerned with natural resources, the watchword is...




www.overclock.net


----------



## sniperpowa

0451 said:


> I can probably top this overall score with my 11900K. Not with a $200 board though. Were you running dry ice for your 10900K score?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 21 941 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


I can top it too I wasn’t going for high gpu score. My 10900k was on ln2. My 11900k scores close to yours on cpu score I never spent much time tweaking it I hit 15,300sh cpu score. I’m sure I could put a pot back on the gpu only and score pretty high.with a untuned. Near 21k cpu score.


----------



## safedisk

ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX DDR5 OC TEST (G.SKILL Samsung Kit)
6400 36-36-36-55 1T 1.35v

samsung ic is still strong


----------



## dante`afk

I'd love to see some tests with this ram at stock vs OCd with tight timings (games, synthetics)


----------



## Exilon

sniperpowa said:


> I scored 21 978 in Time Spy
> Timespy on a $200 board haven’t started playing with the timings yet. Hate not having a cmos button lol.
> View attachment 2532098


What I did was wire the case reset button to the CMOS clear jumper.


----------



## coolice

Exilon said:


> What exactly is this voltage on a DDR4 Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Elite motherboard? I thought VDDQ was tied to VDD
> View attachment 2531898
> 
> but my Gigabyte board has a separate DRAM voltage sensor reading 1.5V


2 voltage rails from FIVR, source from VCCIN_AUX

VDDQ TX
VCCSA

+VDD2, commonly known as DRAM voltage goes to DRAM IC and CPU on DDR4
while on DDR5, goes into CPU only, DDR5 IC takes VDD/VDDQ from PMIC


----------



## carlhil2

2 cores at 5.5Ghz/6 cores at 5.2Ghz..


----------



## Zyther

safedisk said:


> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX DDR5 OC TEST (G.SKILL Samsung Kit)
> 6400 36-36-36-55 1T 1.35v
> 
> samsung ic is still strong


Think the ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO would be able to pull off these memory OCs?


----------



## cstkl1

Zyther said:


> Think the ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO would be able to pull off these memory OCs?


apex is apex
hero is hero
hero not apex

apexs makes dreams come true.


----------



## Bocraft

ok 104sp 118p core


----------



## 七海nana7mi

Bocraft said:


> View attachment 2532119
> 
> ok 104sp 118p core


even with sp104 made in china
those people won't spend money it either


----------



## Exilon

Anyone else having trouble getting some apps to launch with UHD 770 enabled? Seems like Geekbench 5 doesn't like it.

And oh gawd, the pains of OCing with a $260 Gigabyte motherboard in 2021: no calibrated VR OUT, no documentation on LLC ohms. Reduced to working blind with the VID and guesstimating against a wall meter . For a 12900K, LLC standard = 1.1 and LLC low ~ 0.9 by my guess. Gigabyte auto's DC_LL to 0.9 by default but it's fixed there instead of moving with their LLC setting.

The UEFI layout painful enough that at this point I'm just applying an OC TVB based overclock through XTU.


----------



## Bocraft




----------



## jerrytsao

105/117/83, damn son...


----------



## fortecosi

Guys I will get finally the 12900K today. In my country, almost all Intel CPU´s selling here are made in China, so I expect that the my 12900K will be made in China. I know SP is pure lottery, but is China CPU´s SP rating OK, underrated or overrated?


----------



## cstkl1

fortecosi said:


> Guys I will get finally the 12900K today. In my country, almost all Intel CPU´s selling here are made in China, so I expect that the my 12900K will be made in China. I know SP is pure lottery, but is China CPU´s SP rating OK, underrated or overrated?


seems same as vietnam. silicon lottery on batch


----------



## roooo

Bocraft said:


> View attachment 2532122
> 
> View attachment 2532121


Mind telling us what batches these are?


----------



## dante`afk

yea, interesting that all 3 you got are so high


----------



## Bocraft

1000 cpus, sp100+ only 3


----------



## roooo

Bocraft said:


> 1000 cpus, sp100+ only 3


Um...let me do the math... 100SP divided by 1000 CPUs multiplied by 3 CPUs equals .... 0.3 SP ?!?!


----------



## cstkl1

Bocraft said:


> 1000 cpus, sp100+ only 3


do u have total list bro, of numbers etc put 
above 100-105, 95-99, 90-94, 80-89, below 80
so ppl can guess the probability of hitting a sp


----------



## roooo

cstkl1 said:


> so ppl can guess the probability of hitting a sp


You mean so they can figure out if they need to bin 79 or 276 CPUs to have a higher chance in getting a SP96? 🙃 My take: the type of sampling defies a helpful statistical analysis....


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> You mean so they can figure out if they need to bin 79 or 276 CPUs to have a higher chance in getting a SP96? 🙃 My take: the type of sampling defies a helpful statistical analysis....


no. if ppl only see here ppl keep saying sp 90 etc rtc every post, then the get screwed sp 69..

dude will feel bad luck etc. but with that data we can understand whats norm

if not everybody will be chasing asking y their cpu cant fo this amount of ghz etc

msi did a good sampling for cml so ppl could manage their expectation


----------



## Bocraft

1000 cpus
100-105 only 3
91-99 About 7%-8% 
71-79 About 15%

91-99 5% is the data of the top 500, and the proportion of these 500 has increased recently


----------



## Bocraft

No more detailed information is collected, only such a rough range.


----------



## roooo

Bocraft said:


> 1000 cpus
> 100-105 only 3
> 91-99 About 5%
> 71-79 About 15%


Wow that's bitter...


----------



## roooo

cstkl1 said:


> no. if ppl only see here ppl keep saying sp 90 etc rtc every post, then the get screwed sp 69..


Got ya. Is it possible to make one _post_ in this thread writable for every user, so everyone can add his SP and batch? Or do we need a separate list / provider for that?


----------



## dante`afk

does anyone know if the arctic 420 freezer II fits without the LGA 1700 kit?

My apex should arrive finally today but the Kit not until next week :O


----------



## roooo

dante`afk said:


> does anyone know if the arctic 420 freezer II fits without the LGA 1700 kit?
> My apex should arrive finally today but the Kit not until next week :O


Not sure but as Arctic appear to even provide these mounting kits for free if you provide proof of CPU purchase, I suspect it won't properly fit without.


----------



## cstkl1

roooo said:


> Got ya. Is it possible to make one _post_ in this thread writable for every user, so everyone can add his SP and batch? Or do we need a separate list / provider for that?


think thats a bad idea. cause in the past ppl only post good stuff. it will skew ppl expectation


----------



## IronAge

A m8 of mine Wheelchair got two different retail 12900K, the early V-Batch week 35 shows this V.F Curve::










The second one with younger X-Batch week 41 shows this V:F Curve::










Funny ?! He wants an explanation.


----------



## roooo

IronAge said:


> A m8 of mine Wheelchair got two different 12900K,
> 
> The early V_Batch Week 35 shows this V.F Curve::
> 
> The second one with younger X-Batch Week 41 shows this V:F Curve::
> 
> Funny ?! He wants an explanation.


Two times the same pic - or am I missing sth?!


----------



## IronAge

Yeah copy & paste error - fixed.


----------



## roooo

IronAge said:


> Yeah copy & paste error - fixed.


No idea, my SP85 V136... has the 5300 VF points as well...


----------



## IronAge

roooo said:


> No idea, my SP85 V136... has the 5300 VF points as well...


Early Batch as well, maybe you could remove the picture quote please ? THX.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Saying 3 out of 1000 are sp100+ is a great way to sell sp100 CPUs.


----------



## Carillo

Two 12900K's so far..... 1 Sp80(Vietnam), and one Sp79(Kina)


----------



## ThinbinJim

IronAge said:


> A m8 of mine Wheelchair got two different retail 12900K, the early V-Batch week 35 shows this V.F Curve::
> 
> 
> 
> The second one with younger X-Batch week 41 shows this V:F Curve::
> 
> 
> 
> Funny ?! He wants an explanation. [/IMG]


No wonder early rumors about 12900K reported about 5.3ghz clock.
Are these even comparable? If all 12900Ks run at 5.2ghz stock anyway, wouldn't the 5.3ghz VID chips interpolate to a lower VID?

Like for your week 35:
53x: 1.378v
48x: 1.209v
Highest VID at stock 5.2ghz clock (without ACDC LL) = [(1.378-1.209)/(53-48) x 4 bins] + 1.209 = 1.3442VID


----------



## cstkl1

ThinbinJim said:


> No wonder early rumors about 12900K reported about 5.3ghz clock.
> Are these even comparable? If all 12900Ks run at 5.2ghz stock anyway, wouldn't the 5.3ghz VID chips interpolate to a lower VID?
> 
> Like for your week 35:
> 53x: 1.378v
> 48x: 1.209v
> Highest VID at stock 5.2ghz clock (without ACDC LL) = [(1.378-1.209)/(53-48) x 4 bins] + 1.209 = 1.3442VID


5.3ghz is rare stable. cb23 prehaps.


----------



## Skinnered

Is there allready a guide or anyone who can share some specific settings to archieve a stable overclock for an Aorus Z690 Master with a 12900rk and corsair ddr 5200 c38.

The board or memory arn't very stable when tighten or enhance setting.
For example, if I use the gamerprofile under cpu upgrade, I get a green screen of death and a clock watchdog timeout.

I am new to Alderlake oc'ing and know nothing how to treat this platform ans e and p cores.


----------



## ThinbinJim

cstkl1 said:


> 5.3ghz is rare stable. cb23 prehaps.


Not talking about OCing mate
As you noted earlier, some chips can have weird VID
His China chip have VID points for 53x while the later batch Vietnam chip have VID points for 52x


----------



## IronAge

cstkl1 said:


> 5.3ghz is rare stable. cb23 prehaps.


And i got V134J500 12900K, won't be able to check before sunday though.


----------



## acoustic

cstkl1 said:


> no. if ppl only see here ppl keep saying sp 90 etc rtc every post, then the get screwed sp 69..
> 
> dude will feel bad luck etc. but with that data we can understand whats norm
> 
> if not everybody will be chasing asking y their cpu cant fo this amount of ghz etc
> 
> msi did a good sampling for cml so ppl could manage their expectation


the depression i had with my SP63 10900K .. sad boy hours


----------



## cstkl1

ThinbinJim said:


> Not talking about OCing mate
> As you noted earlier, some chips can have weird VID
> His China chip have VID points for 53x while the later batch Vietnam chip have VID points for 52x


oh u talking about those in v/f.. its not vid for 5.3

@RobertoSampaio your forte


----------



## RobertoSampaio

cstkl1 said:


> oh u talking about those in v/f.. its not vid for 5.3
> 
> @RobertoSampaio your forte


I need to see a pic....


----------



## roooo

Double post - removed. Duh!


----------



## roooo

RobertoSampaio said:


> I need to see a pic....


Check Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion


----------



## sugi0lover

got new SP93 12900K and did some tests with gear 2 1T 

○ CPU : 12900K (SP93) / P Cores 5.4Ghz / E Cores 4.3Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz 
○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40 
○ Ram OC : 6200Mhz-28-35-35-28-268-1T (Gear 2) 
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0702) 
○ Voltages : CPU 1.380v / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.435v / MC 1.200v / SA Auto 
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself is inside the room.


----------



## roooo

sugi0lover said:


> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself is inside the room.


Lol...


----------



## roooo

I have my whole PC in the cooler corridor with DP and USB extension...nice'n'quiet in the living room...


----------



## sugi0lover

roooo said:


> Lol...


I want my pc clean and visible to my eyes, so only mora is out on balcony.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Are DDR5 Samsung timings similar to Hynix or they use different values?


----------



## 七海nana7mi

sugi0lover said:


> got new SP93 12900K and did some tests with gear 2 1T
> 
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP93) / P Cores 5.4Ghz / E Cores 4.3Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz
> ○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 6200Mhz-28-35-35-28-268-1T (Gear 2)
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0702)
> ○ Voltages : CPU 1.380v / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.435v / MC 1.200v / SA Auto
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself is inside the room.
> 
> View attachment 2532154
> 
> 
> View attachment 2532155
> 
> 
> View attachment 2532156


can u skip pmic get higher dram voltage？


----------



## RobertoSampaio

roooo said:


> Check Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion


***... Any other CPU like that?
Weird...


----------



## ThinbinJim

RobertoSampaio said:


> ***... Any other CPU like that?
> Weird...


My v-batch week 35 is the same:









hwinfo64 also reads the max oc ratio as 53x:









@SuperMumrik 's V-batch week 34 has the normal 52x vid for some reason


----------



## Exilon

sugi0lover said:


> got new SP93 12900K and did some tests with gear 2 1T
> 
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP93) / P Cores 5.4Ghz / E Cores 4.3Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz
> ○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 6200Mhz-28-35-35-28-268-1T (Gear 2)
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0702)
> ○ Voltages : CPU 1.380v / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.435v / MC 1.200v / SA Auto
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself is inside the room.


Wow, that ring clock is nuts.


----------



## skullbringer

Anyone know what the Scroll Lock Workaround BIOS setting is for the Apex?


----------



## roooo

RobertoSampaio said:


> ***... Any other CPU like that?
> Weird...


You mean the V/F only going up to 5200?


----------



## 911gt3

roooo said:


> 5.14.0-17.1-liquorix-amd64. Tried 5.15.1 but performance was somewhat lower. I'm running / vs. /home as well as VBoxes on two different Optanes, so that adds to the responsiveness. I was hoping we're gonna see Optane DC Persistent Memory in the end-user market, but it appears that's gonna stay wishful thinking.... :-(


Cool, I'll give that kernel a try. Love VMs at work I'm running Windows Server in a VM as my database backend (really copy of our real VM backend) and a Win10 VM where I'm developing the database. On my old rig I ran a Win10 VM to set the RGB on my Corsair AIO since it was controlled thru USB. On this rig I'm running an Artic Freezer II 420, which runs cool but would run even cooler if it didn't have a big 8 drive rack right behind it. Without the rack the temps drop 3-5C.

I can't seem to get stable in Handbrake. Very stable with s-tui. At some voltages, particularly using offset, I get USB issues. Right now it's set for 1.4314 but running at 1.46 for some reason, pulling 232 watts. Thats 54/5c, 53/Allc, and 43/3, 42/5, 41/Allc. 

Anyone else having Handbrake issues with overclocks?


----------



## Forsaken1

Anyone with a week 32 or earlier?


----------



## Esenel

IronAge said:


> And i got V134J500 12900K, won't be able to check before sunday though.


That's funny.
Keep me posted.
But last time I checked it was still here :-D


----------



## skullbringer

Esenel said:


> That's funny.
> Keep me posted.
> But last time I checked it was still here :-D
> View attachment 2532186


you know it's funny, me too


----------



## Skinnered

Whats sp, silicon asci prediction?, how can I check this? Is this asus bios only?


----------



## anubis1127

Skinnered said:


> Whats sp, silicon asci prediction?, how can I check this? Is this asus bios only?


Yes, Asus only, and specifically Asus Maximus boards AFAIK.


----------



## IronAge

skullbringer said:


> you know it's funny, me too


bought from nbb too ? 



anubis1127 said:


> Yes, Asus only, and specifically Asus Maximus boards AFAIK.


No, recent Strix gens got it too, first Strix with prediction i bought has been a X299 Strix II / S2066 Refresh.


----------



## dante`afk

finally board is here, now I can test ^^


----------



## cstkl1

Intel i9 - 12900k - SP93 @ 53|42 - 45
MZ690A - Bios 0702
Gskill 2x16gb 6400C30-37-37-28-1T 280 @1.5
MC/SA - 1.4/1.4









inside casing. 
gonna delid and bare die this.. 5.2 daily is fine but 5.3.. need baredie for daily


----------



## Exilon

Didn't Intel pull AVX512 and TVB pretty late in the game? I wonder if that's why I have around -75mV of undervolt margin between 48-53x. All these early 12900K batches binned and VIDs fused with AVX512 and 5.3 TVB in mind...


----------



## SoldierRBT

12900K SP86 5.1/4.2GHz - 4GHz E-Cores
This is Samsung 6000C32 profile. My kit is 5600C36. Currently testing stability 1.40v VDD/VDDQ. Tried to improve timings/frequency but it doesn’t seem to like any changes.








EDIT:
1.40v VDD/VDDQ Auto IO/SA voltages


----------



## sugi0lover

My friend's SP 103 12900K

M/B: Z690 Maximus Extreme
CPU: 12900K SP103 (P55/E43/C45)
Voltage: 1.4v LLC6
Water Temp : 22C
5.5Ghz requires only 306W, wow!


----------



## Hulk1988

I am trying to get my 12900KF OC but how do I make sure to have stable clock rate? I have it on 5.6 GHZ running for 3 seconds and then it drops to 5.3 GHZ directly. I have disabled the Intel Thermal Limitation in the Bios and running it with Level 6.

What settings I need to change to disable the watt limitations?  thank you all!


----------



## skullbringer

IronAge said:


> bought from nbb too ?


CSV.de - the last of the late shippers, had it preordered and still only received it 6 days after launch, yikes...

V134J500 - SP87 (Big 96, Small 70) - LinpackXtreme 10G stable @ 1.199 Vmin socket - x51 P, x41 E, x41 C
(1.4 Vcore set with LLC4, Z690 Apex BIOS 0096)


----------



## RobertoSampaio

This it's a very nice tool:









Process Lasso Now Supports Intel Alder Lake CPUs, Could Address Performance Issues


Lasso gives users control over efficiency and performance core prioritization




www.tomshardware.com


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> got new SP93 12900K and did some tests with gear 2 1T
> 
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP93) / P Cores 5.4Ghz / E Cores 4.3Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz
> ○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 6200Mhz-28-35-35-28-268-1T (Gear 2)
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0702)
> ○ Voltages : CPU 1.380v / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.435v / MC 1.200v / SA Auto
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself is inside the room.
> 
> View attachment 2532154
> 
> 
> View attachment 2532155
> 
> 
> View attachment 2532156


Thank you so much for your detailed and transparent reporting! My MO-RA is also on the patio.


----------



## IronAge

0451 said:


> Thank you so much for your detailed and transparent reporting! My MO-RA is also on the patio.


Qualified for sugi0lover lover club.


----------



## sugi0lover

stabilized 6200 C30 1T with latency of 49.5ns (CMO below)

[CMO file]





Z690Apex_6200C301T.CMO







drive.google.com





○ CPU : 12900K (SP93) / P Cores 5.4Ghz / E Cores 4.3Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz
○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 6200Mhz-30-35-35-26-268-1T (Gear 2)
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0702)
○ Voltages : CPU 1.380v / VDD 1.400v / VDDQ 1.300v / MC 1.18125v / SA Auto
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself is inside the room.


----------



## xarot

skullbringer said:


> Anyone know what the Scroll Lock Workaround BIOS setting is for the Apex?


Are you seeing that in bios or asking what setting it could be there? Thinking it could be related to the Denuvo workaround.


----------



## SuperMumrik

sugi0lover said:


> stabilized 6200 C30 1T with latency of 49.5ns (CMO below


Damn man, this is impressive! Could I bother you to run a maxxmem 2 bench?


----------



## cstkl1

@Nizzen
jdec police incoming. gonna be arresting ppl all around the world.


----------



## fortecosi

Finally 12900K aboard 
Batch V135I742, Made in China
SP 79 (P-cores SP 86, E-cores SP 65)

V/F in the screenshot:


----------



## anta777

sugi0lover said:


> stabilized 6200 C30 1T with latency of 49.5ns


only 11 significant mistakes were made when tuning memory,
big success

tWR=1,935 ns - this is a real masterpiece for centuries
RDRDdg=7 and WRWRdg=7 do not reach him


----------



## cstkl1

@owikh84 
whats ure v/f and batch bro?


----------



## sugi0lover

SuperMumrik said:


> Damn man, this is impressive! Could I bother you to run a maxxmem 2 bench?


never ran this bench before. I don't know if it's good or not.


----------



## skullbringer

xarot said:


> Are you seeing that in bios or asking what setting it could be there? Thinking it could be related to the Denuvo workaround.


I'm looking for the setting in the bios. And yes, it is for the denuvo workaround, but with default bios settings it does not work, so still needs enabling somehow.

other vendor bios call it something like "legacy game compatibility" or "scoll lock workaround" but search in apex bios does not turn up anything...


----------



## SuperMumrik

sugi0lover said:


> never ran this bench before. I don't know if it's good or not.


Tnx!
Not really sure what it tells, but here is a screen from my **** micron d5 kit vs my d4.
What I do know is that my d4 setup is killing my d5 setup in gaming performance


----------



## owikh84

cstkl1 said:


> @owikh84
> whats ure v/f and batch bro?


While waiting for Z690 Extreme and DDR5 to be available, I will be using the Strix Z690-A and DDR4 for the time being 










12900K
Batch V135I164, Made in China
SP 91 (P-cores SP 98, E-cores SP 78)










12900KF
Batch V139I871, Made in China
SP 87 (P-cores SP 96, E-cores SP 71)


----------



## cstkl1

owikh84 said:


> While waiting for Z690 Extreme and DDR5 to be available, I will be using the Strix Z690-A and DDR4 for the time being
> 
> View attachment 2532236
> 
> 
> 12900K
> Batch V135I164, Made in China
> SP 91 (P-cores SP 98, E-cores SP 78)
> View attachment 2532239
> 
> 
> 
> 12900KF
> Batch V139I871, Made in China
> SP 87 (P-cores SP 96, E-cores SP 71)
> View attachment 2532240


yeah so china and vietnam same lottery

wah kf box like second class citizen lol.


----------



## fortecosi

Ops sorry, because I just learned how to capture proper BIOS screen, here is the "real" screenshot:

12900K
Batch V135I742, Made in China
SP 79 (P-cores SP 86, E-cores SP 65)


----------



## sugi0lover

Next goal to stabilize this setup... 









bug~


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> Next goal to stabilize this setup...
> View attachment 2532255
> 
> 
> bug~
> View attachment 2532257


give chance to the "best of ddr4"
to beat this

but you can see right bro how bad xmp is
example
ddr4 xmp twr/trtp 24/12 vs tunes arnd 8-
10/6
ddr5 xmp 100/48 vs 8-10/6 yours lower

but just from this ..damn obvious the flaw.

ddr4 we know the end game
ddr5 is just beginning and its very good.


----------



## dante`afk

12900KF
V138J779


















12900k
V134J892



















12900k
V135H749


----------



## cstkl1

dante`afk said:


> 12900KF
> V138J779
> 
> View attachment 2532283
> View attachment 2532285
> 
> 
> 
> 12900k
> V134J892
> 
> View attachment 2532287
> 
> View attachment 2532288
> 
> 
> 
> 12900k
> V135H749
> 
> View attachment 2532289
> 
> View attachment 2532291


so
84,89,84

so far nobody unlucky like rkl on later batches sp 50s

hope intel doesnt do that again.


----------



## skullbringer

cstkl1 said:


> so
> 84,89,84
> 
> so far nobody unlucky like rkl on later batches sp 50s
> 
> hope intel doesnt do that again.


wdym I have an SP 43 11900K 😂


----------



## Groove2013

skullbringer said:


> wdym I have an SP 43 11900K 😂


My 11900K first had SP59 (Apex Z590), then with newer BIOS SP 50 and with the latest BIOS SP 45 )))
But it runs no problem at 5.150/4.550 GHz cores/cache at barely under 1.3 V (load) in Prime95 (non-AVX) using EK-AiO 280 Elite D-RGB, doing less than 90°C peak and average slightly under 80°C + 3960 MHz CL14 gear 1.


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> My 11900K first had SP59 (Apex Z590), then with newer BIOS SP 50 and with the latest BIOS SP 45 )))
> But it runs no problem at 5.150/4.550 GHz cores/cache at barely under 1.3 V (load) in Prime95 (non-AVX) using EK-AiO 280 Elite D-RGB, doing less than 90°C peak and average slightly under 80°C + 3960 MHz CL14 gear 1.


this time no concreate proof yet but.. there is imc binning for adl

its pretty big margin this time. my findings. not definitive yet. still need larger sample size.


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> this time no concreate proof yet


What do you mean?


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


> What do you mean?


one friend higher SP couldnt boot 4k dr kit

i couldnt do 6600 1T on another cpu AT all bsod.


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> one friend higher SP couldnt boot 4k dr kit
> 
> i couldnt do 6600 1T on another cpu AT all bsod.


Rocket Lake's IMC isn't any better.
Some could barely do 3600 MHz, while others were running 3866 MHz or even 39XX-4000 MHz gear 1.

Just that frequency range is higher, due improved IMC and DDR5 and thus gives the impression, that differences in IMC quality on Alder Lake are even bigger than on Rocket Lake.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I think the fixed voltage will be dead soon...









Intel Raptor Lake's Digital Linear Voltage Regulator (DLVR) could reduce CPU power up to 25% - VideoCardz.com


Intel DLVR can provide up to 7% more performance with 21% lower voltage An interesting thread has recently appeared on Reddit. It covers the concept of the Digital Linear Voltage Regulator (DLVR) which might be used with the upcoming Intel Raptor Lake CPU series. Intel Raptor Lake Digital...




videocardz.com


----------



## 911gt3

dante`afk said:


> does anyone know if the arctic 420 freezer II fits without the LGA 1700 kit?
> 
> My apex should arrive finally today but the Kit not until next week :O


Fits on my Asus board. One caveat, the thick paper/cardstock sticky washers that go under the standoffs will cause the poor contact unless you tighten them down real good. I was overheating in simple stress tests, tightened those down then reinstalled the water block and I'm running much better temps now, typically well under 80C whereas before I was thermal throttling.


----------



## Antsu

RobertoSampaio said:


> I think the fixed voltage will be dead soon...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Raptor Lake's Digital Linear Voltage Regulator (DLVR) could reduce CPU power up to 25% - VideoCardz.com
> 
> 
> Intel DLVR can provide up to 7% more performance with 21% lower voltage An interesting thread has recently appeared on Reddit. It covers the concept of the Digital Linear Voltage Regulator (DLVR) which might be used with the upcoming Intel Raptor Lake CPU series. Intel Raptor Lake Digital...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> videocardz.com


Damn. I guess I do have to give up my dinosaur habits sometime.


----------



## Falkentyne

911gt3 said:


> Fits on my Asus board. One caveat, the thick paper/cardstock sticky washers that go under the standoffs will cause the poor contact unless you tighten them down real good. I was overheating in simple stress tests, tightened those down then reinstalled the water block and I'm running much better temps now, typically well under 80C whereas before I was thermal throttling.


Those paper washers are less than 1/10th of a mm thick. They have nothing to do with poor contact whatsoever.
The standoffs themselves however will cause pressure issues. You're using the 1151 standoffs on 1700. Arctic themselves explain that the 1700 standoffs are 1mm shorter than the 1151 standoffs, so that's the cause of your contact problem, not the completely flat (and not thick at all) paper washers. Also the backplate itself can be a problem because it's not designed for the 1700 back metal bracket, so you may have balance issues as well with how you screw the standoffs into it and how flat it can sit.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

It's possible to use some coils


----------



## dante`afk

yea it's super tight on the apex and the screws don't even go through the bracket, I'll wait for the Kit to arrive.

.


----------



## 911gt3

Falkentyne said:


> Those paper washers are less than 1/10th of a mm thick. They have nothing to do with poor contact whatsoever.
> The standoffs themselves however will cause pressure issues. You're using the 1151 standoffs on 1700. Arctic themselves explain that the 1700 standoffs are 1mm shorter than the 1151 standoffs, so that's the cause of your contact problem, not the completely flat (and not thick at all) paper washers. Also the backplate itself can be a problem because it's not designed for the 1700 back metal bracket, so you may have balance issues as well with how you screw the standoffs into it and how flat it can sit.


I assure you they are much more than 0.1mm which would be normal #50 paper. These are more like 90-120# paper. I'll mic the matrix when I get a chance.

When I installed the standoffs I made them finger tight. After heat issues I used a hand driver, which squished them down and the problem went away. In any event Artic is offering free 1700 kits with CPU proof of purchase. My kit is on the way.

EDIT: the washers are 0.216mm (0.0085") In any event it made a difference tightening everything up. I used the standoffs Artic recommended in their online tutorial. I will have to see how the new kit performs.


----------



## Exilon

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1459470943051472897
So the ring multiplier also changing the frequency inside the E-core clusters which is why ring is default 3.6 when they're powered up.

The atom L2 voltage is supplied by a FIVR. Has anyone found a way to query what voltage it's sending? I wonder if the high ring clock overclocks are being seen on boards that can overvolt the atom L2?

This is similar to the gear 1 frequency cap we're seeing on different motherboards. 3200-4000 is a huge range in IMC capability that's caused by motherboard firmware. I have to think the 4000-4600 ring clock ceiling we're seeing is the same deal here.


----------



## kmellz

dante`afk said:


> yea it's super tight on the apex and the screws don't even go through the bracket, I'll wait for the Kit to arrive.
> 
> .
> View attachment 2532316


Was planning on checking out my new board (strix z690-a D4 ) with LF2 and 1200 kit tomorrow since 1700 kits seem slow to arrive.. so you're saying it's not just possibly bad contact, it doesn't work at all?


----------



## Falkentyne

911gt3 said:


> I assure you they are much more than 0.1mm which would be normal #50 paper. These are more like 90-120# paper. I'll mic the matrix when I get a chance.
> 
> When I installed the standoffs I made them finger tight. After heat issues I used a hand driver, which squished them down and the problem went away. In any event Artic is offering free 1700 kits with CPU proof of purchase. My kit is on the way.
> 
> EDIT: the washers are 0.216mm (0.0085") In any event it made a difference tightening everything up. I used the standoffs Artic recommended in their online tutorial. I will have to see how the new kit performs.


The reason they made a difference is in how close you got the standoffs to the board. Remember the "proper" 1700 standoffs are a full 1mm shorter than the 1151 standoffs. So you already are going to have less mounting pressure even if the 1151 socket holes are present on 1700. and then you have a "balance" problem with the 1151 backplate on 1700. so if you manage to yeet the tightness of the standoffs, you end up increasing the pressure.

Asus tested the LF II coolers with the 1151 kit on 1700 and had difficulties getting a proper mount because of the Z-height.

On 1151 (I used the Liquid Freezer II 360 on both Z490 and Z590), you dont have any problems at all with mounting pressure. It just works.


----------



## 911gt3

Falkentyne said:


> The reason they made a difference is in how close you got the standoffs to the board. Remember the "proper" 1700 standoffs are a full 1mm shorter than the 1151 standoffs. So you already are going to have less mounting pressure even if the 1151 socket holes are present on 1700. and then you have a "balance" problem with the 1151 backplate on 1700. so if you manage to yeet the tightness of the standoffs, you end up increasing the pressure.
> 
> Asus tested the LF II coolers with the 1151 kit on 1700 and had difficulties getting a proper mount because of the Z-height.
> 
> On 1151 (I used the Liquid Freezer II 360 on both Z490 and Z590), you dont have any problems at all with mounting pressure. It just works.



I get what you are saying, and I am waiting on the kit. However Artic's website recommends the 1200/115x for the install. That's what I used and now the CPU runs cool.

PCH temps on the other hand... I'm seeing 80c just sitting in the bios.


----------



## 911gt3

What are you guys seeing for PCH temps? I'm seeing 80+C sitting in the bios.

Trying to diagnose handbrake locking this thing up. Everything else works great. 

Is there a PCH voltage I can tweak? 

For reference I have four NVMe drives connected to the PCH using the Hyper M.2_card and both bottom slots. I did that because three can run gen 4 for Linux raid. The drives don't run hot but the PCH sure does.


----------



## Falkentyne

911gt3 said:


> What are you guys seeing for PCH temps? I'm seeing 80+C sitting in the bios.
> 
> Trying to diagnose handbrake locking this thing up. Everything else works great.
> 
> Is there a PCH voltage I can tweak?
> 
> For reference I have four NVMe drives connected to the PCH using the Hyper M.2_card and both bottom slots. I did that because three can run gen 4 for Linux raid. The drives don't run hot but the PCH sure does.


What motherboard?


----------



## 911gt3

Falkentyne said:


> What motherboard?


Asus Maximum Z690 Hero

I found the PCH voltages and moved them from auto to locked at the spec voltage, which reduced the temp to around 60C


----------



## dante`afk

kmellz said:


> Was planning on checking out my new board (strix z690-a D4 ) with LF2 and 1200 kit tomorrow since 1700 kits seem slow to arrive.. so you're saying it's not just possibly bad contact, it doesn't work at all?


the kit comes with mounting clips which appear to be shorter the ones for the 1200/115x/2066, 2011(-3) sockets. thus they should fit I guess


----------



## raad11

Can you access things like Memory Controller Voltage in the BIOS for the Asus Z690-A ROG Strix Gaming WiFi D4? I see CPU System Agent Voltage, but nothing for the memory controller or anything like VCCIO.

I'm trying to stabilize 3900-4000 MHz in Gear 1. System will boot into Windows, even function for a while, then randomly reboot (whole system shuts off and starts back up by itself).

It set SA at 1.345v by itself. Which is actually lower than I think it would need.

Is there some menu I'm missing, or is there a custom BIOS which allows access to these things?


----------



## shamino1978

raad11 said:


> Can you access things like Memory Controller Voltage in the BIOS for the Asus Z690-A ROG Strix Gaming WiFi D4? I see CPU System Agent Voltage, but nothing for the memory controller or anything like VCCIO.
> 
> I'm trying to stabilize 3900-4000 MHz in Gear 1. System will boot into Windows, even function for a while, then randomly reboot (whole system shuts off and starts back up by itself).
> 
> It set SA at 1.345v by itself. Which is actually lower than I think it would need.
> 
> Is there some menu I'm missing, or is there a custom BIOS which allows access to these things?


Mem controller is dram voltage on ddr4


----------



## raad11

shamino1978 said:


> Mem controller is dram voltage on ddr4


I'm not sure I understand. My DRAM voltage is set to 1.6 and shows up in HWinfo as such. But in HWinfo I also see "VDDQ TX Voltage" and "IVR TX VDDQ" at 1.2v. Is that not the memory controller or what would have been called VCCIO previously?


----------



## raad11

Also, does Asus Multicore Enhancement still overclock the Turbo ratios? The description implies it just takes off all temp/power/current limits when set to Enabled.


----------



## raad11

cstkl1 said:


> one friend higher SP couldnt boot 4k dr kit
> 
> i couldnt do 6600 1T on another cpu AT all bsod.


What seems to be the upper limit range for DDR4 Gear 1? How many people have you seen hitting 4000? I can boot 3900 single rank kit (2x8GB). I can also try 2 x dual rank or 4 x single rank (2x16 or 4x8) of the same RAM. Which would be less stressful for the IMC?


----------



## raad11

RAM was tuned on my 9900K on Z390 Aorus Master (4x8GB). I put two sticks in the Z690 board and copied over all the timings verbatim. Latency fluctuates a little but has been mid-40s (didn't get below 44ns though). I may squeeze out a better latency score by overclocking cache since mine is almost always at 3600MHz.

Memory was run in XMP mode in the above graph (bandwidth was 69-70GB/s read) for the 4400CL17 run.

The game is Overwatch, 1080p, Ultra details. I think the GPU boost was affected by temps or something in one of the stock/XMP runs.

If I could get it stable at this I'd be happy, but it does randomly reboot. I guess I could try just retuning memory manually. May be a timing somewhere that doesn't work.


----------



## cstkl1

raad11 said:


> What seems to be the upper limit range for DDR4 Gear 1? How many people have you seen hitting 4000? I can boot 3900 single rank kit (2x8GB). I can also try 2 x dual rank or 4 x single rank (2x16 or 4x8) of the same RAM. Which would be less stressful for the IMC?


my es 12900 kf on strix D4 no issue 4000 
dr 2x16gb 

4x8gb is archaic. current rkl/adl rank, doesbt give much advantage over SR . the SR on rkl has been tuned by intel ucode and asus to a point theres no diff. ADL looks like needs more work but atm its not a priority as adl already chart topping even on stock cpu


----------



## SoldierRBT

I still don't know what I'm doing.
12900K 5.1/4.2 - 4.0 6133MHz 32-35-35-52 1T 1.42 VDD/VDDQ


----------



## raad11

cstkl1 said:


> my es 12900 kf on strix D4 no issue 4000
> dr 2x16gb
> 
> 4x8gb is archaic. current rkl/adl rank, doesbt give much advantage over SR . the SR on rkl has been tuned by intel ucode and asus to a point theres no diff. ADL looks like needs more work but atm its not a priority as adl already chart topping even on stock cpu


Do you use 100:100 or 100:133 BCLKRAM frequency? I just tried 4000 with 100:133 and it booted (and then rebooted randomly lol).

I'd be fine with single rank but I want 32 gigs...


----------



## Relent

ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4 user here

I cant boot with 4000 DDR4, vdimm to 1.57 and CPU System Agent Voltage to 1.35 

2x16 DR, kit can do 4133-14-15-15-32 @ 1.58


----------



## RobertoSampaio

911gt3 said:


> Asus Maximum Z690 Hero
> 
> I found the PCH voltages and moved them from auto to locked at the spec voltage, which reduced the temp to around 60C


Where is this voltage and what voltage did you set?


----------



## Groove2013

Matzito said:


> ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4 user here
> 
> I cant boot with 4000 DDR4, vdimm to 1.57 and CPU System Agent Voltage to 1.35
> 
> 2x16 DR, kit can do 4133-14-15-15-32 @ 1.58


1.35 SA is not much. Try 1.45.
Also try 1.61 VDIMM instead of 1.57.


----------



## Groove2013




----------



## Carillo

Carillo said:


> Still waiting for DDR5
> 
> View attachment 2532026












This is what i managed so far. Dropped it down to 4200 cl14.15.15.35, but still Gear 1 😀


----------



## cstkl1

Groove2013 said:


>


lol even after nda over still blackout
even after no show in hwbot still hide and seek?


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> lol even after nda over still blackout
> even after no show in hwbot still hide and seek?


Good question.


----------



## cstkl1

Carillo said:


> View attachment 2532367
> 
> 
> This is what i managed so far. Dropped it down to 4200 cl14.15.15.35, but still Gear 1 😀


by this we can see the all core coverage speed lower than rkl.

the imc totally diff


----------



## Groove2013

Carillo said:


> View attachment 2532367
> 
> 
> This is what i managed so far. Dropped it down to 4200 cl14.15.15.35, but still Gear 1 😀


In HWiFO64 you can right click on Memory Clock -> Customize values and change Multiply to 2 and click on Set, so RAM frequency is displayed as 4190 MHz, instead of 2095 MHz. It's easier to read like this for everybody.


----------



## Groove2013

Good news guys!
There is still no ASRock Timing Configurator that works with Z690.
BUT!

MSI Dragon Ball 1.0.0.08 for Z690 boards works just fine with my Apex Z590 (non-MSI).

So it should also work no problems with Asus Z690 and Gigabyte/ASRock Z690 boards to display timings.


----------



## Relent

SP 91 (P-cores SP 101, E-cores SP 73)

Hmm somehow I disabled e-cores and HT but CPU stays locked at 3.2ghz

(ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4)


----------



## SuperMumrik

Groove2013 said:


> So it should also work no problems with Asus Z690 and Gigabyte/ASRock Z690 boards to display timings.


Tnx for this. Works like a charm on z690 Apex


----------



## xarot

skullbringer said:


> I'm looking for the setting in the bios. And yes, it is for the denuvo workaround, but with default bios settings it does not work, so still needs enabling somehow.
> 
> other vendor bios call it something like "legacy game compatibility" or "scoll lock workaround" but search in apex bios does not turn up anything...


I don't have the Apex or any other board yet, but is it released yet in latest BIOS?









Intel: These 50+ PC Games Are Incompatible With 'Alder Lake' CPUs Due to DRM


The chip giant has outlined workarounds, but some require going into your PC's BIOS settings. We tried it, but failed to find the necessary function.




me.pcmag.com





_The problem, at least in the early going: We tried the workaround on both an MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi (the board on which we tested the initial Alder Lake chips) and on an Asus ROG Maximus Z690 Hero we reviewed, but failed to find any Legacy Game Compatibility Mode on either motherboard BIOS. We reached out to the two motherboard makers, and to Intel, for help. Asus was the first to respond via a spokesperson:_


> _"Regarding Legacy Game Mode, this should be included in a future BIOS update...we have 0705 coming up and a couple of others scheduled for release. [We will] check with our HQ to see if this feature will be included in 0705." _


----------



## skullbringer

xarot said:


> I don't have the Apex or any other board yet, but is it released yet in latest BIOS?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel: These 50+ PC Games Are Incompatible With 'Alder Lake' CPUs Due to DRM
> 
> 
> The chip giant has outlined workarounds, but some require going into your PC's BIOS settings. We tried it, but failed to find the necessary function.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> me.pcmag.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _The problem, at least in the early going: We tried the workaround on both an MSI MPG Z690 Carbon WiFi (the board on which we tested the initial Alder Lake chips) and on an Asus ROG Maximus Z690 Hero we reviewed, but failed to find any Legacy Game Compatibility Mode on either motherboard BIOS. We reached out to the two motherboard makers, and to Intel, for help. Asus was the first to respond via a spokesperson:_


cheers, I'm on 0096 and latest non-xoc is 0702 iirc, so we'll have to wait it seems


----------



## coolice

raad11 said:


> I'm not sure I understand. My DRAM voltage is set to 1.6 and shows up in HWinfo as such. But in HWinfo I also see "VDDQ TX Voltage" and "IVR TX VDDQ" at 1.2v. Is that not the memory controller or what would have been called VCCIO previously?











Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion


I scored 21 978 in Time Spy Timespy on a $200 board haven’t started playing with the timings yet. Hate not having a cmos button lol.




www.overclock.net


----------



## raad11

coolice said:


> Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion
> 
> 
> I scored 21 978 in Time Spy Timespy on a $200 board haven’t started playing with the timings yet. Hate not having a cmos button lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


So there's no way to increase the voltage going to the imc specifically? These things aren't in the BIOS for the ROG Striz Z690-A


----------



## Lord Alzov

/


----------



## Lord Alzov

0451 said:


> I can probably top this overall score with my 11900K. Not with a $200 board though. Were you running dry ice for your 10900K score?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 21 941 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-11900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


My 10900k 16452 CPU on water not cold lol.
21533
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-10900K Processor,Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MEG Z490 UNIFY (MS-7C71) (3dmark.com)


----------



## sugi0lover

my another oc stabilization~
Even thought Hynix CL40 ram kit is the most basic DDR5, it is great for OC.

○ CPU : 12900K (SP93) / P Cores 5.4Ghz / E Cores 4.3Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz
○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 6400Mhz-32-37-37-26-300-1T (Gear 2)
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0096)
○ Voltages : CPU 1.380v / VDD 1.400v / VDDQ 1.300v / MC 1.18125v / SA Auto
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself is inside the room.


----------



## Talon2016

Have we figured out why some have a VID table for 5300mhz and some 5200mhz?

My SP86 has only 5200mhz while the SP83 has 5300mhz.

Also I’ve now opened 3 12900K.

SP86, 85, and 83.
All from China.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Lord Alzov said:


> My 10900k 16452 CPU on water not cold lol.
> 21533
> NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-10900K Processor,Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MEG Z490 UNIFY (MS-7C71) (3dmark.com)


Here is my 12700K, not even cold.

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7-12700K Processor,ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. TUF GAMING Z690-PLUS WIFI D4 (3dmark.com)


----------



## carlhil2

Playing around with this chip. @4.2Ghz, e-cores disabled, this thing is a beast. GC cores are no joke.


----------



## 911gt3

RobertoSampaio said:


> Where is this voltage and what voltage did you set?


Under Tweakers Paradise in my Asus bios, PCH 1.05 set to 1.05 and PCH 0.82 set to 0.82. They were both auto. So basically I just locked it at the recommended voltages and didn't allow auto to decide. PCH is running cooler. 60-75C. It needs a fan on it I think. The way my case is setup there's not much airflow in that area.


----------



## asdkj1740

still waiting for the upcoming version of prime95 that allows the number of threads to be set as 24.
msi gigabyte got it already.


----------



## Dingdong630

I just got my 12900kf and for now a gigabyte elite ddr4 board can’t find any Ddr5 ram.

mid there a way to find out the binning on my chip ?


----------



## 1devomer

911gt3 said:


> Under Tweakers Paradise in my Asus bios, PCH 1.05 set to 1.05 and PCH 0.82 set to 0.82. They were both auto. So basically I just locked it at the recommended voltages and didn't allow auto to decide. PCH is running cooler. 60-75C. It needs a fan on it I think. The way my case is setup there's not much airflow in that area.


My Asus AMD X370-F board come with a metal sticker on top of the chipset heatsink, guess what hides under the sticker, some rough fins cut into the aluminum.

My TUF Z590-Plus Gaming, have a plastic cover on the chipset heatsink, that i obviously removed.
The heatsink is the same as the one found on boards like the AMD A520-M TUF.

Now, here are the heatsinks of the Z690 Hero.









As you can see, there are no fins on the chipset heatsink, it only relies on the thermal mass of the piece of aluminum.
Furthermore, the led backplate glued on top of the assembly, is in some ways insulating the chipset heatsink.
So even if you would put a fan on top, on top of what?

Unfortunately, overheating chipsets can lead to issues, as some laptop users have experienced.
On some laptops, the chipset is left without heatskink overheating, especially when doing heavy I/O tasks.
So dunno if you are running both NVME slots, in addition to some SATA drives, but having the chipset going over 80°, on such board is certainly a miss.


----------



## Falkentyne

Talon2016 said:


> Have we figured out why some have a VID table for 5300mhz and some 5200mhz?
> 
> My SP86 has only 5200mhz while the SP83 has 5300mhz.
> 
> Also I’ve now opened 3 12900K.
> 
> SP86, 85, and 83.
> All from China.


Is one KF and one K?
Or are they both K?

There's some..."hearsay" that the 5300 point is actually supposed to be the 5200 point and that the duplicated V/F points between 4800 and 5300 are reserved for some later SKU (RPL? who knows or something), but I really don't know. On CML, the second to last point and the last point were the same unless you were using an "OC ratio" higher than the stock OC ratio by silicon.
Really hard to say what's going on.
I think the V/F might actually be the "load vmin" or something, so a 5.3 ghz 1.289v point on the v/f (showing on v/f 8, 9 and 10) is actually 5.2 ghz 1.289v vmin, but I could probably be 200% utterly wrong about that so just ignore me. I don't know what I'm talking about.


----------



## Falkentyne

911gt3 said:


> Under Tweakers Paradise in my Asus bios, PCH 1.05 set to 1.05 and PCH 0.82 set to 0.82. They were both auto. So basically I just locked it at the recommended voltages and didn't allow auto to decide. PCH is running cooler. 60-75C. It needs a fan on it I think. The way my case is setup there's not much airflow in that area.


What were the auto voltages for PCH 1.05 and PCH 0.82 reading at in HWinfo64 (latest version or latest beta build 7.15.4615?), before you manually changed them?
If you can reboot and check, would just take you like 2 minutes (probably longer to update your hwinfo64 to the latest beta build, after downloading the 7.14 version first then updating the beta build into c:\program files\hwinfo64
PCH 1.05 is "PCH" and PCH 0.82 is "VIN9". or at least I think it's VIN9.


----------



## kmellz

So, had a legendary moment of "stop being a stupid idiot" and remembered I still have my old lf 2 280 here waiting for a friend!
Mounted the 1200 kit, and just tried a bit to see how the block fit. Seemed to get "good" contact with the cpu, course since these standoffs are longer the temps will likely be worse. It seems to probably cover the whole cpu, and seems centered. And I forgot to check 100%, but it doesn't seem like the block hits anything/blocks anything? As per their warning about having to remove a cover for it to work (z690-a gaming wifi d4).
And no, I didn't test with thermal paste to check, was just a quickie. Will report back tomorrow with temps/disaster!


----------



## rluker5

RobertoSampaio said:


> This it's a very nice tool:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Process Lasso Now Supports Intel Alder Lake CPUs, Could Address Performance Issues
> 
> 
> Lasso gives users control over efficiency and performance core prioritization
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.tomshardware.com


Thanks for pointing that out. Have used that before. One of the comments on that page found another notable point:
WHY IS NO ONE TESTING THIS?? Intel i9-12900K & i5-12600K P Core & E Core Benchmarks - YouTube
That tester is using a 3080.
Windows has a thread scheduler that works with Intel's hardware core scheduler, but Nvidia drivers also have a multicore enhancement for games that spreads the load across cores according to Nvidia rules. I bet that is screwing things up for Alder. I have a 3080 so this matters for me. 
At least until Nvidia adjusts their drivers for better Alder compatibility.


----------



## Talon2016

Falkentyne said:


> Is one KF and one K?
> Or are they both K?
> 
> There's some..."hearsay" that the 5300 point is actually supposed to be the 5200 point and that the duplicated V/F points between 4800 and 5300 are reserved for some later SKU (RPL? who knows or something), but I really don't know. On CML, the second to last point and the last point were the same unless you were using an "OC ratio" higher than the stock OC ratio by silicon.
> Really hard to say what's going on.
> I think the V/F might actually be the "load vmin" or something, so a 5.3 ghz 1.289v point on the v/f (showing on v/f 8, 9 and 10) is actually 5.2 ghz 1.289v vmin, but I could probably be 200% utterly wrong about that so just ignore me. I don't know what I'm talking about.


They were all K SKU retail packages.


----------



## SoldierRBT

12900K 5.1/4.2 - 4GHz E-cores 6133MHz 32-35-35-52 1T (Samsung). This is daily stable 1.34v LLC4. Still GPU Bound with a 3080 FE. There's more room for improvement with higher clocks and better sticks (Hynix). Settings: 1080p Lowest AA off









For reference my daily system 10900K 5.3/4.9 4600 17-17 DR RTX 3090


----------



## Relent

raad11 said:


> So there's no way to increase the voltage going to the imc specifically? These things aren't in the BIOS for the ROG Striz Z690-A


Can you boot with ddr4 3900-4000 gear 1?

I have the same board, no luck


----------



## Falkentyne

Did anyone gain any increase in bare vmin absolute minimum vcore stability by increasing CPU PLL Voltage and Ring PLL voltage by 100-110mv together?
(either with or without also increasing system agent voltage?), either with all cores enabled or P-cores only enabled? (e.g. 0.900v-1.00v?)


----------



## TheSteez

Falkentyne said:


> Did anyone gain any increase in bare vmin absolute minimum vcore stability by increasing CPU PLL Voltage and Ring PLL voltage by 100-110mv together?
> (either with or without also increasing system agent voltage?), either with all cores enabled or P-cores only enabled? (e.g. 0.900v-1.00v?)


Sorry if i'm asking in the wrong place but does that work on the z490 apex xii also? my vf/points aren't stable on adaptive voltage with llc 4(recommended setting) with .01/.01 loadlines. power limits maxed out etc.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

12700K is only slightly better than 11900k in this bench


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Talon2016 said:


> Have we figured out why some have a VID table for 5300mhz and some 5200mhz?
> 
> My SP86 has only 5200mhz while the SP83 has 5300mhz.
> 
> Also I’ve now opened 3 12900K.
> 
> SP86, 85, and 83.
> All from China.


I think I know why...

Do you know which is the newest?

Intel was going to launch the 12900k with a maximum frequency of 5300MHz, and I don't know why it decided to reduce the frequency to 5200MHz.
So I believe the older (and the ES and QS) CPUs are that with the max VF curve at 53x while the newer ones are already being manufactured with the maximum VF curve of 52x.

Let's see which type of CPU will prevail.


----------



## Dingdong630

That’s 5.1 all p cores at 1.265 volts
Don’t have sp rating using a cheap 200 ddr4 board.
How is it compare to others?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Dingdong630 said:


> View attachment 2532446
> That’s 5.1 all p cores at 1.265 volts
> Don’t have sp rating using a cheap 200 ddr4 board.
> How is it compare to others?


12700K Tuf DDR4


----------



## Dingdong630

0451 said:


> 12700K Tuf DDR4
> View attachment 2532447


What voltage you running ?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Dingdong630 said:


> What voltage you running ?


Vid=vcore with the settings provided by @cstkl1: ac 0.39 dc 1.1 llc3.


----------



## Dingdong630

0451 said:


> Vid=vcore with the settings provided by @cstkl1: ac 0.39 dc 1.1 llc3.


Wonder what kind of sp rating I got


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Dingdong630 said:


> Wonder what kind of sp rating I got


What’s your cooling system like? I’ve noticed temperature makes a huge difference regardless of SP.


----------



## Dingdong630

0451 said:


> What’s your cooling system like? I’ve noticed temperature makes a huge difference regardless of SP.


Full water cooling set up 420 & 280 rad


----------



## Relent

I lost the silicon lottery with the memory controller guys, my CPU is SP 101/73 but I cant post above 3700mhz tried multiple voltages


----------



## cstkl1

Matzito said:


> I lost the silicon lottery with the memory controller guys, my CPU is SP 101/73 but I cant post above 3700mhz tried multiple voltages


sp 91. 

mobo/bios?


----------



## 911gt3

Falkentyne said:


> What were the auto voltages for PCH 1.05 and PCH 0.82 reading at in HWinfo64 (latest version or latest beta build 7.15.4615?), before you manually changed them?
> If you can reboot and check, would just take you like 2 minutes (probably longer to update your hwinfo64 to the latest beta build, after downloading the 7.14 version first then updating the beta build into c:\program files\hwinfo64
> PCH 1.05 is "PCH" and PCH 0.82 is "VIN9". or at least I think it's VIN9.


I'm running linux so no way to install HWinfo64. I am able to monitor voltages, if I can find their MSR address. Been searching online all day for them. I think I have the right one for Vcore 0x198, at least it seems to be right.


----------



## 911gt3

1devomer said:


> My Asus AMD X370-F board come with a metal sticker on top of the chipset heatsink, guess what hides under the sticker, some rough fins cut into the aluminum.
> 
> My TUF Z590-Plus Gaming, have a plastic cover on the chipset heatsink, that i obviously removed.
> The heatsink is the same as the one found on boards like the AMD A520-M TUF.
> 
> Now, here are the heatsinks of the Z690 Hero.
> View attachment 2532419
> 
> 
> As you can see, there are no fins on the chipset heatsink, it only relies on the thermal mass of the piece of aluminum.
> Furthermore, the led backplate glued on top of the assembly, is in some ways insulating the chipset heatsink.
> So even if you would put a fan on top, on top of what?
> 
> Unfortunately, overheating chipsets can lead to issues, as some laptop users have experienced.
> On some laptops, the chipset is left without heatskink overheating, especially when doing heavy I/O tasks.
> So dunno if you are running both NVME slots, in addition to some SATA drives, but having the chipset going over 80°, on such board is certainly a miss.


Is that where the PCH is? I figured it was under the aluminum plate down by the bottom front of the board near the lowest two m.2 slots.


----------



## sniperpowa

Lord Alzov said:


> My 10900k 16452 CPU on water not cold lol.
> 21533
> NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-10900K Processor,Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MEG Z490 UNIFY (MS-7C71) (3dmark.com)


My 10900kf scores 17k on ambient loop. Tune your ram definitely missing out on score. My best is 18,646 it number 5 for 10900k timespy cpu score. Got my 12900k to 21,500 on my 200 dollar ddr4 board. Hopefully get some z5 for the apex when it drops! I scored 22 138 in Time Spy


----------



## Relent

cstkl1 said:


> sp 91.
> 
> mobo/bios?


ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4 BIOS 0605 (latest)

vdimm to 1.55-1.61 and CPU System Agent Voltage to 1.35-1.45

2x16 DR, kit that can do 4133-14-15-15-32


----------



## IronAge

RobertoSampaio said:


> I think I know why...
> 
> Do you know which is the newest?
> 
> Intel was going to launch the 12900k with a maximum frequency of 5300MHz, and I don't know why it decided to reduce the frequency to 5200MHz.
> So I believe the older (and the ES and QS) CPUs are that with the max VF curve at 53x while the newer ones are already being manufactured with the maximum VF curve of 52x.
> 
> Let's see which type of CPU will prevail.


12900K with Batches up to week 36 comfirmed with max Turbo Boost 53x, 12900K from week 38 and up confirmed with max Turbo Boost 52x.

So either in week37 or week38 of assembly Intel changed to 52x, looking for a 12900K/KF sample from week 37 now..

Late ES also got 53x, but max Turbo Boost is set for 52x in intel specification sheets:









Produktspezifikationen


Kurzübersicht mit Spezifikationen, Funktionen, Preise, Kompatibilität, Design-Infos, Bestellcodes, SPEC-Codes und mehr.




ark.intel.com





so 53x is just another (small) bonus for the early adopters.


----------



## skullbringer

Matzito said:


> ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4 BIOS 0605 (latest)
> 
> vdimm to 1.55-1.61 and CPU System Agent Voltage to 1.35-1.45
> 
> 2x16 DR, kit that can do 4133-14-15-15-32


DR B-die might just be lacking any optimizations yet. My SR kits all do above 4000 pretty easily, DR hasn't booted anything above jedec, though I didn't try lower than 3800...

bios updates will hopefully help that


----------



## cstkl1

Matzito said:


> ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4 BIOS 0605 (latest)
> 
> vdimm to 1.55-1.61 and CPU System Agent Voltage to 1.35-1.45
> 
> 2x16 DR, kit that can do 4133-14-15-15-32


update to 0707


----------



## sniperpowa

Dingdong630 said:


> View attachment 2532446
> That’s 5.1 all p cores at 1.265 volts
> Don’t have sp rating using a cheap 200 ddr4 board.
> How is it compare to others?


I’m guessing we have the same board lol. It takes me 1.3v for all pcores @5.2. I did 5.3 @ 1.4v ran a little hot scored over 30k


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Matzito said:


> I lost the silicon lottery with the memory controller guys, my CPU is SP 101/73 but I cant post above 3700mhz tried multiple voltages


You have to believe in yourself.


----------



## owikh84

12900K SP 91
52 | 41 Auto vCore LLC4
ROG Strix Z690-A
2x16GB DDR4-4000 CL17-17-17-37-2T Gear1 @ 1.40v










Hmm, not happy with my custom loop.
Ambient 30C


----------



## Falkentyne

See if increasing core PLL voltage + Ring PLL voltage to 1.00v helps stability on ambient cooling any (Default=0.900v)


----------



## 911gt3

owikh84 said:


> 12900K SP 91
> 52 | 41 Auto vCore LLC4
> ROG Strix Z690-A
> 2x16GB DDR4-4000 CL17-17-17-37-2T Gear1 @ 1.40v
> 
> View attachment 2532450
> 
> 
> Hmm, not happy with my custom loop.
> Ambient 30C


I'm seeing temps like that with an Artic Freezer 420 at 1.43 volts in search of getting Phoronix Blender benchmark to run without crashing. Handbrake gives me issues too. But mines at 5.4/5c 5.3/AllC 4.2/3c 4.1/5c and 4.0/AllC on the e-cores. If I drop everything by 1 I'm stable and running under 85C most of the time. 

Very tempted to install Win11 on a spare NVME and run HWinfo64 and Cinebench to sort this out. 

May have damaged my motherboard though. Overtightened the standoffs and now men channel A won't post. Move both sticks to B and it will. Picking up another board tomorrow, but I see copper under the standoffs. Should have waited for the right Artic brackets. This happened when I tried rotating the block 90 degrees to see if it would cover the IHS better, it does but temps did not change.


----------



## ThinbinJim

owikh84 said:


> 12900K SP 91
> 52 | 41 Auto vCore LLC4
> ROG Strix Z690-A
> 2x16GB DDR4-4000 CL17-17-17-37-2T Gear1 @ 1.40v
> 
> View attachment 2532450
> 
> 
> Hmm, not happy with my custom loop.
> Ambient 30C


Die sense or socket sense? Have Asus brought the die sense vcore sensor to the strix lineup yet?


----------



## safedisk

*ROG MAXIMUS Z690 Series Beta Bios 0801 UPDATE*

1. Improve system performance
2. Update microcode C-0 Stepping

ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO BETA BIOS 0801

ROG MAXIMUS Z690 FORMULA BETA BIOS 0801

ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX BETA BIOS 0801

ROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME BETA BIOS 0801

ROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME GLACIAL BETA BIOS 0801


*ROG STRIX Z690 Series Beta Bios 0801 UPDATE*

1. Improve system performance
2. Update microcode C-0 Stepping

ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI BETA BIOS 0801

ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4 BETA BIOS 0801

ROG STRIX Z690-E GAMING WIFI BETA BIOS 0801

ROG STRIX Z690-F GAMING WIFI BETA BIOS 0801

ROG STRIX Z690-G GAMING WIFI BETA BIOS 0801

ROG STRIX Z690-I GAMING WIFI BETA BIOS 0801


----------



## safedisk

ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX DDR5 OC

SA 1.35
Memory Controller 1.5
HCI VDD 1.48
HCI VDDQ 1.48
GB3 VDD 1.54
GB3 VDDQ 1.54

6600 30-37-37-30 1T HCI 100% PASS
AIDA64 Latency 48ns

6666 30-37-37-28 1T GB3 MEM SCORE 14003

DDR5 Very strong
Looking forward to gaming performance
company's internet is slow, so it takes time to download Steam 😂
I will try it later


----------



## 1devomer

911gt3 said:


> Is that where the PCH is? I figured it was under the aluminum plate down by the bottom front of the board near the lowest two m.2 slots.


Yep, here is a better picture of the heatsink, chipset on the board, from this review.
The m.2 slots have their own separate heatsink, consisting of an aluminum plate with thermal pads.










As an engineering note, Asus could cut some rough fins onto the internal side of the cooler, the one facing the motherboard.
Since the heated air rise, it could help the chipset heat dissipation further, especially if the top heatsink assembly is flat, covered by something.
The bottom case and/or gpu airflow, could slip under the heatsink where the rough fins are, avoiding hot hair stagnation.

It should please everyone, great look and proper heat dissipation.
Overheating chipsets could lead to issues or degraded I/O performances, as the review points out.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

0451 said:


> Vid=vcore with the settings provided by @cstkl1: ac 0.39 dc 1.1 llc3.


I sent him these configs... LOL

Try AC_LL 0.25

It is easy to understand this way....LOL
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

*Understanding LLC, AC_LL & DC_LL:*

Let's first understand load lines:

For this, didactically, we will exchange the electric current for a flow of water.












Our goal is to adjust the circuit so that the tanks remain at the same levels at all times, regardless of LOAD.

The resistance to the passage of water in the “Load Line” piping is physical and intrinsic to its construction.
_(This is the physical wire from the VRM to the CPU)._

As the LOAD varies all the time, the CPU tank level tends to get higher or lower than the VRM tank in an uncontrolled way.

So let's take control !

For that we have 2 pumps: the LLC pump and the AC_LL pump.

The first thing to do is to choose an LLC pump that will compensate for losses in the load line pipe.
_(This is the VRM impedance characteristic, which determines the voltage drop as current flows)._
Ideally, the pump should be neither too strong nor too weak.

We have 8 LLC pumps to choose from.
Pumps #7 and #8 are very strong and are not viable for daily use. So we have six pumps left.
It seems to me a good idea to choose an intermediate pump, #3 for example, but we can choose any one of these 6 pumps, as long as we make adjustments in the control circuit.

All this control will be done by the CPU, so we must inform which pump we choose through the DC_LL parameter. This way, the value of DC_LL (milliohms) must match the value of LLC (milliohms) chosen so that the CPU does all the calculations correctly.

The next pump to choose is AC_LL.
_(This is the load variation compensation component)._

This parameter makes the CPU, upon perceiving an increase in the water flow to the LOAD, to increase the VID value sent to the VRM, in order to anticipate the losses that this flow increase could cause. Therefore, the VRM uses the LLC and AC_LL pumps to fulfill the CPU VID request.

So if we have a stronger LLC pump, we can use a weaker AC_LL pump and vice versa.

Some combinations are not recommended, for example: two weak pumps or two strong pumps.

All this game can be done according to the desired goals.

*Comparison with fixed voltage:*













Bye bye level control.... 😂
You will need to run all the time with some "fat" voltage to be stable for while the flow comes...


----------



## asdkj1740

is the latest aida64 fpu stress test (with avx) strong enough to prove the stability of cpu oc?
for non avx testings, c23 multi ??


----------



## ogider

IronAge said:


> 12900K with Batches up to week 36 comfirmed with max Turbo Boost 53x, 12900K from week 38 and up confirmed with max Turbo Boost 52x.


is there any preliminary data for 12900k, what can be more or less expected when reading the batch number? last digits after the week of production


----------



## sblantipodi

is there someone who knows where to get DDR5 in europe?


----------



## asdkj1740

1devomer said:


> Yep, here is a better picture of the heatsink, chipset on the board, from this review.
> The m.2 slots have their own separate heatsink, consisting of an aluminum plate with thermal pads.
> 
> View attachment 2532460
> 
> 
> As an engineering note, Asus could cut some rough fins onto the internal side of the cooler, the one facing the motherboard.
> Since the heated air rise, it could help the chipset heat dissipation further, especially if the top heatsink assembly is flat, covered by something.
> The bottom case and/or gpu airflow, could slip under the heatsink where the rough fins are, avoiding hot hair stagnation.
> 
> It should please everyone, great look and proper heat dissipation.
> Overheating chipsets could lead to issues or degraded I/O performances, as the review points out.


asus uses thick thermal pad for chipset cooling.
some asus models also got thermal pad on the back of the PCB for better chipset heat dissipation through the pcb backplate.

gigabyte uses super thin thermal pad (looks even similar to thermal paste) for chipset cooling.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

For those who want to know about interpolation....


*Interpolation:*

In mathematics, linear interpolation is a method of curve fitting using linear polynomials to construct new data points within the range of a discrete set of known data points.

We can use interpolation to find a voltage between two VF points, or between the last VF point and the adaptive voltage.

So let take as an example the following VF curve with an OC frequency of 5700MHz:













The 5100MHz VID is in some place between VF#6 (1184) and VF#7 (1299)

To find the estimated 5100MHz VID we will apply the following formula:

_5100_VID = (VF#7_VID - VF#6_VID ) / (VF#7_freq - VF#6_freq) * _(5100 - _VF#6_freq_) + _VF#6_VID_
5100_VID = (1299 - 1184) / (5300 - 4800) * (5100 - 4800) + 1184
5100_VID = (115) / (500) * (300) + 1184
5100_VID = 1253mv

So the estimated VID for 5100MHz will be 1253mv

If you apply a negative offset of 50mv to VF#6 you must use the new VF#6_VID value to find the new 5100_VID
So, in this case, the new 5100_VID is 1245mv.
You can increase or decrease the 5100_VID by changing the VF#6 offset or the VF#7 offset.

Attention here because if you decide to change VF#7 this will have an effect on the interpolation of VF#7 to the adaptive voltage.

The voltage that will be applied at the maximum OC frequency will be the adaptive voltage or VF #11 (whichever is higher).

In this example, the Adaptive is higher than VF#11
Adaptive = 1458
VF#11 + offset = 1445

So now let's find the estimated 5500_VID with a 20mv positive offset applied to VF#7:
VF#7 = 1299
VF#7+offset = 1299+20 = 1319mv

_5500_VID = (Adaptive- VF#7_VID+offset) / (OC_Freq - VF#7_freq) * _(5500 - _VF#7_freq_) + _VF#7_VID+offset
5500_VID = (1458 - 1319) / (5700 - 5300) * (5500 - 5300) + 1319
5500_VID = 1389mv_














The interpolation is a linear curve, as you can see below.













More information about "adaptive voltage", "By core usage" and OCTVB:









ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...


Disclaimer ! These settings and methods are outside Intel's specifications, just like any other overclocking method. ---------------------------------------------------- For Z790/13900K click here Introduction: In a world increasingly concerned with natural resources, the watchword is...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Rena Ryugu

Has anybody managed to push their 12900k to 12000cb for r20 or 32000cb for r23?


----------



## raad11

I was having a problem with my Z690-A ROG Strix D4 (random reboots) so I got another, and that one seems to have no issues. Weird. I noticed some slight discrepancies in the performance and saw the second one was running at 99.8MHz BCLK in HWinfo64 which was maddeningly knocking like 6-12 MHz off all the clocks. I put 100.2 for BCLK in BIOS and now HWinfo64 reads 100.0 and all the clocks are what they were on other boards.

Weird, no? I see some of you in your screenshots are also showing 99.8 BCLK in HWinfo64.

I wonder if the random reboots had anything to do with the LGA1200 NH-D15S I put on there. I forgot who it was, maybe Linus TT, who showed a case of hardware problems like crashes/reboots just from having the heatsink tightened all the way which was random. So I wonder if an ill-fitting LGA1200 cooler could've caused it.

Anyway, going to LGA1700 brackets with NH-D15S (and Kryonaut paste because it's easier to clean up and I'll have to remove it again soon) from LGA1200 NH-D15S with SYY-157 dropped temps by 5-6 degrees (peak 84 C at end of Cinebench MT run vs 89-90 C before). It was using more wattage on the LGA1700 brackets too (251 watts according to UPS vs 241 before). Ambient is like 22-24 C.

So at 250 watts or under, you don't really need an AIO if you're just gaming? It should peak 90-95 C under Cinebench/Blender/Handbrake I think if you run it at full load for several minutes.


----------



## sugi0lover

having a little fun with 3DMark CPU Profile at water temp 19C








I scored 0 in CPU Profile


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com























[Edit: [email protected] 5.5Ghz vs [email protected]]


----------



## skullbringer

sugi0lover said:


> having a little fun with 3DMark CPU Profile at water temp 19C
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 0 in CPU Profile
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2532468
> 
> 
> View attachment 2532469


how are you cooling 1.39 Vmin, liquid metal between ihs and block?


----------



## sugi0lover

skullbringer said:


> how are you cooling 1.39 Vmin, liquid metal between ihs and block?


No. Just normal thermal paste. 
Hwinfo was on after 3dmark and on while cpuz bench.


----------



## Rena Ryugu

sugi0lover said:


> having a little fun with 3DMark CPU Profile at water temp 19C
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 0 in CPU Profile
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2532468
> 
> 
> View attachment 2532469


Looks cool. How much will you sell that chip for?


----------



## dante`afk

his mora is sitting outside on the balcony.

with cold temps you'll do well as well.


----------



## SoldierRBT

safedisk said:


> View attachment 2532101
> 
> 
> View attachment 2532102
> 
> 
> View attachment 2532103
> 
> 
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX DDR5 OC TEST (G.SKILL Samsung Kit)
> 6400 36-36-36-55 1T 1.35v
> 
> samsung ic is still strong


Hi, sorry to bother you. I was wondering if you could share this profile. I'm having trouble above 6133 Samsung sticks. 

Thank you


----------



## cstkl1

i9-12900k @ 52|41|44 
Asus MZ690 Apex - Bios 0702
Asus Strix 3080ti OC

PR - 15019








I scored 15 019 in Port Royal


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com





TS - 22541| 23087








I scored 22 621 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com





FS - 55549 | 44854 | 21055








I scored 46 306 in Fire Strike
 

Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## ObviousCough

My 12600k does 51/41 at 1.4v in a Gigabyte Z690i Aorus Ultra with the extremely broken F3 bios. i only did some R23 and cpu-z due to completely unstable memory.

Made in Vietnam. Batch: X140K290

I'll do some real benchmarking when my MSI board gets here at the end of the week.


----------



## raad11

Got 20042 Timespy CPU with the Asus MC Boost on the default optimized (not enabled or disabled) and RAM at 3900C14 Gear 1. Everything else stock.


----------



## famich

Hello, guys : 12900K Batch*V36J679


----------



## famich

Made in China


----------



## nmkr

tested my small rocket on ambient

ASUS APEX Z690
12600K - SP 55

53/46 - 42 small - 1.470bios / ~ 1.300 load with 24c watertemp











that cpu also did 6.6ghz+ R20 on LN2








noizemaker`s Cinebench - R20 score: 8013 cb with a Core i5 12600K (6P)


The Core i5 12600K (6P) @ 6661MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R20 benchmark. noizemakerranks #14 worldwide and #10 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org


----------



## Arni90

0451 said:


> You have to believe in yourself.


I prefer to believe in Shamino's magic BIOSes 😀


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Arni90 said:


> I prefer to believe in Shamino's magic BIOSes 😀


I’m not convinced releasing the board with a beta bios and fixing it later counts as magic, but Shamino’s workarounds for high ram OC on Asus’s low end 6-layer PCBs is magic.


----------



## Relent

Tested 0707 and was able to boot 4000 but I was getting lot of errors and bsods

Now testing BIOS 0801 with the following results:

No post with DR4000
No post with DR4133-14-15-15-32 1.35/1.57
Completed TestMem5 extreme with DR4133-16-16-16-36 1.35/1.57
13 min Testing TestMem5 extreme with DR4133-15-16-16-36 1.35/1.57


----------



## Spiriva

sugi0lover said:


> having a little fun with 3DMark CPU Profile at water temp 19C
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 0 in CPU Profile
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2532469
> 
> 
> [Edit: [email protected] 5.5Ghz vs [email protected]]


On spot 8 is me on the list


----------



## raad11

Just messing around, used 'AI Optimized' for Core Ratios, LLC on 2 with AC/DC LL set to 0.46 and 1.46, set SVID Behavior to Typical (tried Best Case and it worked for like an hour before crashing), and set TVB to +1 bin boost.









I scored 0 in CPU Profile


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 16384 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com





Cinebench R20 hit like 10980-something, really close to 11k (it was TVB-throttled since I set max package temp to 89 C and it hit that), single core was 822

Interestingly, temps didn't even hit 80 C in the 3d Mark CPU Profile test... maybe because it was only running it on the P-Cores and not E-Cores?

I'll properly OC it later after I figure out all the guides Falkentyne/Roberto/cst posted. I have a ROG Strix which doesn't have that voltage max thing, but it does have 'CPU Core Auto Voltage Cap'... can I set that to 1.5V and it works similarly?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

raad11 said:


> Just messing around, used 'AI Optimized' for Core Ratios, LLC on 2 with AC/DC LL set to 0.46 and 1.46, set SVID Behavior to Typical (tried Best Case and it worked for like an hour before crashing), and set TVB to +1 bin boost.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 0 in CPU Profile
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti x 1, 16384 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cinebench R20 hit like 10980-something, really close to 11k (it was TVB-throttled since I set max package temp to 89 C and it hit that), single core was 822
> 
> Interestingly, temps didn't even hit 80 C in the 3d Mark CPU Profile test... maybe because it was only running it on the P-Cores and not E-Cores?
> 
> I'll properly OC it later after I figure out all the guides Falkentyne/Roberto/cst posted. I have a ROG Strix which doesn't have that voltage max thing, but it does have 'CPU Core Auto Voltage Cap'... can I set that to 1.5V and it works similarly?


It is not the same...
Do not use it.... It will destabilize your oc.

Voltage cap limit voltage no matter if CPU is asking for a higher voltage. If it happen, system crash because CPU will try to run at a high frequency without enough voltage.

IA VR voltage limit limits the voltage, but when CPU ask a voltage higher than the limit, CPU is informed that it will not be possible and CPU down clock until the voltage is below the set limit, and system still stable.

The IA VR voltage limit is not necessary... You can survive without it....
I will ask Shamino about the possibility of this knob in strix...

The Asus AI works very well!

You can try it using

LLC#3
DC_LL 1.1
AC_LL 0.25 (you can try 0.2 if you have a good CPU)

It will cool down the CPU at full load

Voltage auto and run AI.

After AI tuned the system test full load and ST....


----------



## sugi0lover

. Wrong post. Please delete this.


----------



## kmellz

So, sadly it was a disaster 😂
Used the 1200 mounting for my lf2 as it seemed to have worked at least ok for others, was hoping for ok temps until correct kit, but for me, not so much!
Currently running with 1P/1E core enabled, at 1500 mhz 
At least the mobo and new ram looks nice!
Gonna try and shorten the standoffs a bit tomorrow maybe, and call arctic and see how the 1700 kit deliveries are going..


----------



## raad11

My bad, I updated to 0801 bios and now all those things are in there! Memory controller voltage, the IA VR Voltage Limit thing (not the cap but the one in Roberto's guide). Awesome!

So another weird thing happened. My first Z690-A ROG Strix D4 board started randomly rebooting (like hitting reset switch, no BSODs) and wouldn't stop. So I got another one. That one ran without zero issues for probably 20 hours, until I started testing overclocks, then I got some BSODs, so then I drew back down to default settings and... it started randomly restarting as well. ***! 

That was on 0605 BIOS so I updated to the 0801 beta BIOS.

My case is a Phanteks P500A and PSU is a brand new Corsair RM1000x which gave zero issues on my old Z390 Aorus Master. I also have the proper Noctua LGA1700 mounting bracket, so I'd be really surprised if it's a short. And the behavior doesn't sound like a short.

I'm hoping the BIOS update will resolve that as well. I'm not ready to splurge on DDR5 or an even more expensive board yet.


----------



## raad11

Wow, new BIOS is really pushing the VDDQ TX voltage. It was always 1.2v before, but now that it's manually adjustable, on "Auto" it is at 1.35v in HWinfo64 (4400CL17 XMP Gear 2).


----------



## raad11

RobertoSampaio said:


> It is not the same...
> Do not use it.... It will destabilize your oc.
> 
> Voltage cap limit voltage no matter if CPU is asking for a higher voltage. If it happen, system crash because CPU will try to run at a high frequency without enough voltage.
> 
> IA VR voltage limit limits the voltage, but when CPU ask a voltage higher than the limit, CPU is informed that it will not be possible and CPU down clock until the voltage is below the set limit, and system still stable.
> 
> The IA VR voltage limit is not necessary... You can survive without it....
> I will ask Shamino about the possibility of this knob in strix...
> 
> The Asus AI works very well!
> 
> You can try it using
> 
> LLC#3
> DC_LL 1.1
> AC_LL 0.25 (you can try 0.2 if you have a good CPU)
> 
> It will cool down the CPU at full load
> 
> Voltage auto and run AI.
> 
> After AI tuned the system test full load and ST....


This worked like a charm. At 5.1GHz full load all core (well 5090 cuz of weird BCLK) Cinebench R20 multithreaded, it stayed in the mid-high 80 C range, actually under 87. Scored 11020. On air! (NH-D15S)

But then during Aida cache/memory test, it BSOD with driver overran stack buffer. Not sure if due to memory oc or CPU oc...


----------



## raad11

Does "AI Optimized" automatically use TVB? Or do you have to enable that separately?


----------



## sugi0lover

My ram block for 12900K is cuplex kryos NEXT VARIO and it has contact pressure problem?
If it's true, I am happy because the temp will be lower with proper bracket.












So 1700 - Wasserkühlung - Aqua Computer Forum


----------



## RobertoSampaio

raad11 said:


> Does "AI Optimized" automatically use TVB? Or do you have to enable that separately?


It will select "by core" but no OCTVB boost.


----------



## Dingdong630

What is the lowest voltage you guys can run 5.1 all core I can do 5.1 at 1.27 volts with e cores enabled


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Dingdong630 said:


> What is the lowest voltage you guys can run 5.1 all core I can do 5.1 at 1.27 volts with e cores enabled


Full load P51x/E40x 
1.16v


----------



## Dingdong630

RobertoSampaio said:


> Full load P51x/E40x
> 1.16v


Damn what sp rating you have ?


----------



## Mr.Vegas

Whats up Guys, I have my 12900K incoming [upgrading from 5950x] and wonder about cooling.
I have old Heatkiller IV block and ordered the new backplate and springs.

Anyone here with Heatkiller IV Pro block [with the new LGA1700 springs and back-plate]
Hows your temps?

Also i found this new Corsair block, it has twice the water channels vs previous non pro models, 110+ channels vs 60
Anyone here with the new CORSAIR Hydro X Series XC7 RGB PRO? Hows your temps?


----------



## gerardfraser

Dingdong630 said:


> What is the lowest voltage you guys can run 5.1 all core I can do 5.1 at 1.27 volts with e cores enabled


52 5 P-core
51 3 P-core
40 E-core
41 Ring
CPU 1.165v
SA 1.20v running DDR4 Dual Rank 3866Mhz - Need SA 1.35 for DDR4 Dual Rank 4000Mhz
Noctua - NH U12A chromax Black Air Cooler hitting 82°C Batch # on mine V136J515


----------



## Dingdong630

gerardfraser said:


> 52 5 P-core
> 51 3 P-core
> 40 E-core
> 41 Ring
> CPU 1.165v
> SA 1.20v running DDR4 Dual Rank 3866Mhz - Need SA 1.35 for DDR4 Dual Rank 4000Mhz
> Noctua - NH U12A chromax Black Air Cooler hitting 82°C


damn i must have a bad chip V138J779 12900kf


----------



## gerardfraser

Dingdong630 said:


> damn i must have a bad chip V138J779 12900kf


Nah your good,you literally have one of the fastest CPU around.Also the it is the internet,grass is not always greener but someone will have a higher binned CPU. Batch # on mine V136J515


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Dingdong630 said:


> damn i must have a bad chip V138J779 12900kf


I think we are talking about Vcore.... And you VID... and not tuned the loadlines.


----------



## Dingdong630

RobertoSampaio said:


> I think we are talking about Vcore.... And you VID...


oh no for sure i got vcore set in bios to 1.265 to get stable all core 5.1


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Dingdong630 said:


> oh no for sure i got vcore set in bios to 1.265 to get stable all core 5.1


Fixed voltage?
What is your MB?


----------



## Dingdong630

RobertoSampaio said:


> Fixed voltage?


yup


----------



## Dingdong630

RobertoSampaio said:


> Fixed voltage?
> What is you MB?


you have discord ? mind adding me Starlord#5979


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Dingdong630 said:


> you have discord ? mind adding me Starlord#5979


I'm not home now...

For Asus MB
Do the following...

LLC#3

AC_LL = 0.25
DC_LL= 1.1

Voltage AUTO

Test


----------



## Dingdong630

RobertoSampaio said:


> I'm not home now...
> 
> 
> Do the following...
> 
> LLC#3
> 
> AC_LL = 0.25
> DC_LL= 1.1
> 
> Voltage AUTO
> 
> Test


Using currently a MSI Pro motherboard until evga z690 dark / classified is coming out.
where can i find ac_ll and dc_ll
What should i use on core then?


----------



## sugi0lover

Dingdong630 said:


> What is the lowest voltage you guys can run 5.1 all core I can do 5.1 at 1.27 volts with e cores enabled


I am at work atm. so this is the pic I had.

SP 93
P cores 5.3 / E Cores 4.2 / Cache 4.5
1.25v(llc7), water temp 23
CineR23 30642. Power 243W

Weird thing is idle temp of cores is sometimes lower than water temp, maybe the location of monitoring?


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> I am at work atm. so this is the pic I had.
> 
> SP 93
> P cores 5.3 / E Cores 4.3 / Cache 4.5
> 1.25v(llc7), water temp 23
> CineR23 30642. Power 243W
> 
> Weird thing is idle temp of cores is sometimes lower than water temp, maybe the location of monitoring?
> 
> View attachment 2532545


yeah i get around the same 1.24-1.25


----------



## Dingdong630

sugi0lover said:


> I am at work atm. so this is the pic I had.
> 
> SP 93
> P cores 5.3 / E Cores 4.2 / Cache 4.5
> 1.25v(llc7), water temp 23
> CineR23 30642. Power 243W
> 
> Weird thing is idle temp of cores is sometimes lower than water temp, maybe the location of monitoring?
> 
> View attachment 2532545










What do I need to ad there?


----------



## destylock

What’s considered and good overclock settings for 

CPU SA
CPU L2
Cache Ratio

is it worth over locking cache or leaving on auto?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Dingdong630 said:


> View attachment 2532546
> What do I need to ad there?


I don't know the MSI LLC impedance...

And looking at the photo, the MSI load line values are not in milliohms...


----------



## Dingdong630

RobertoSampaio said:


> I don't know the MSI LLC impedance...
> 
> And looking at the photo, the MSI load line values are not in milliohms...


Yeah it’s hard to tell but I’ll figure it out.

what exactly do I need to change in the bios
All core ratio?
Vcore ?
Load line ? (1 is the highest highest for oc)
Fixed voltage?


----------



## Dingdong630

Delete this


----------



## Dingdong630

Dingdong630 said:


> Yeah it’s hard to tell but I’ll figure it out.
> 
> what exactly do I need to change in the bios
> All core ratio?
> Vcore ?
> Load line ? (1 is the highest highest for oc)
> Fixed voltage?


----------



## acoustic

RobertoSampaio said:


> I don't know the MSI LLC impedance...
> 
> And looking at the photo, the MSI load line values are not in milliohms...


Every 1 number on MSI is .01mOhm

1=.01
10=.10
100=1.0


----------



## RobertoSampaio

The basics are here...

You need to find a way to use Asus MB concepts in MSI MB











ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...


Disclaimer ! These settings and methods are outside Intel's specifications, just like any other overclocking method. ---------------------------------------------------- For Z790/13900K click here Introduction: In a world increasingly concerned with natural resources, the watchword is...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Falkentyne

acoustic said:


> Every 1 number on MSI is .01mOhm
> 
> 1=.01
> 10=.10
> 100=1.0


MSI has always used 1/100 mohm for their AC/DC Loadlines, including in their laptops.
so MSI value divided by 100= Asus value.
MSI "100" = 100/100=1 mOhm=Asus value.

So in that above screenshot, "80" = 80/100 =0.8 mOhm.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Falkentyne said:


> MSI has always used 1/100 mohm for their AC/DC Loadlines, including in their laptops.
> so MSI value divided by 100= Asus value.
> MSI "100" = 100/100=1 mOhm=Asus value.
> 
> So in that above screenshot, "80" = 80/100 =0.8 mOhm.


The problem is to know the LLCs impedance...


----------



## 911gt3

RobertoSampaio said:


> It is not the same...
> Do not use it.... It will destabilize your oc.
> 
> Voltage cap limit voltage no matter if CPU is asking for a higher voltage. If it happen, system crash because CPU will try to run at a high frequency without enough voltage.
> 
> IA VR voltage limit limits the voltage, but when CPU ask a voltage higher than the limit, CPU is informed that it will not be possible and CPU down clock until the voltage is below the set limit, and system still stable.
> 
> The IA VR voltage limit is not necessary... You can survive without it....
> I will ask Shamino about the possibility of this knob in strix...
> 
> The Asus AI works very well!
> 
> You can try it using
> 
> LLC#3
> DC_LL 1.1
> AC_LL 0.25 (you can try 0.2 if you have a good CPU)
> 
> It will cool down the CPU at full load
> 
> Voltage auto and run AI.
> 
> After AI tuned the system test full load and ST....


This sure dropped my temps and CPU voltage in Ubuntu. Maybe too low on the voltage as I got a crash running blender benchmark. Which way do I adjust these to allow a little more voltage? Higher mOhms or lower? Assuming higher since you mentioned 0.2 with a good CPU. Mines only binned at 81 so I tried 0.25


----------



## Exilon

Increase AC_LL to get more voltage. Think of AC_LL as a scaling factor for the VID.

I find it quite silly that these motherboards don't automatically set DC_LL to the correct number based on their LLC.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

It's not perfect, but it's a way to understand them...

Let's first understand load lines:

For this, didactically, we will exchange the electric current for a flow of water.














Our goal is to adjust the circuit so that the tanks remain at the same levels at all times, regardless of LOAD.

The resistance to the passage of water in the “Load Line” piping is physical and intrinsic to its construction.
_(This is the physical wire from the VRM to the CPU)._

As the LOAD varies all the time, the CPU tank level tends to get higher or lower than the VRM tank in an uncontrolled way.

So let's take control !

For that we have 2 pumps: the LLC pump and the AC_LL pump.

The first thing to do is to choose an LLC pump that will compensate for losses in the load line pipe.
_(This is the VRM impedance characteristic, which determines the voltage drop as current flows)._
Ideally, the pump should be neither too strong nor too weak.

We have 8 LLC pumps to choose from.
Pumps #7 and #8 are very strong and are not viable for daily use. So we have six pumps left.
It seems to me a good idea to choose an intermediate pump, #3 for example, but we can choose any one of these 6 pumps, as long as we make adjustments in the control circuit.

All this control will be done by the CPU, so we must inform which pump we choose through the DC_LL parameter. This way, the value of DC_LL (milliohms) must match the value of LLC (milliohms) chosen so that the CPU does all the calculations correctly.

The next pump to choose is AC_LL.
_(This is the load variation compensation component)._

This parameter makes the CPU, upon perceiving an increase in the water flow to the LOAD, to increase the VID value sent to the VRM, in order to anticipate the losses that this flow increase could cause. Therefore, the VRM uses the LLC and AC_LL pumps to fulfill the CPU VID request.

So if we have a stronger LLC pump, we can use a weaker AC_LL pump and vice versa.

Some combinations are not recommended, for example: two weak pumps or two strong pumps.

All this game can be done according to the desired goals.

*Comparison with fixed voltage:*













Bye bye level control.... 😂
You will need to run all the time with some "fat" voltage to be stable while the flow comes...


----------



## Lurifaks

kmellz said:


> So, sadly it was a disaster 😂
> Used the 1200 mounting for my lf2 as it seemed to have worked at least ok for others, was hoping for ok temps until correct kit, but for me, not so much!
> Currently running with 1P/1E core enabled, at 1500 mhz
> At least the mobo and new ram looks nice!
> Gonna try and shorten the standoffs a bit tomorrow maybe, and call arctic and see how the 1700 kit deliveries are going..



Thank you for testing!

I was waiting to see how it went for you 

Then I continue to use the Corsair AIO with lga1200 kit, until the lf2 kit arrives


----------



## 1devomer

RobertoSampaio said:


> It's not perfect, but it's a way to understand them...
> 
> Let's first understand load lines:
> 
> For this, didactically, we will exchange the electric current for a flow of water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our goal is to adjust the circuit so that the tanks remain at the same levels at all times, regardless of LOAD.
> 
> The resistance to the passage of water in the “Load Line” piping is physical and intrinsic to its construction.
> _(This is the physical wire from the VRM to the CPU)._
> 
> As the LOAD varies all the time, the CPU tank level tends to get higher or lower than the VRM tank in an uncontrolled way.
> 
> So let's take control !
> 
> For that we have 2 pumps: the LLC pump and the AC_LL pump.
> 
> The first thing to do is to choose an LLC pump that will compensate for losses in the load line pipe.
> _(This is the VRM impedance characteristic, which determines the voltage drop as current flows)._
> Ideally, the pump should be neither too strong nor too weak.
> 
> We have 8 LLC pumps to choose from.
> Pumps #7 and #8 are very strong and are not viable for daily use. So we have six pumps left.
> It seems to me a good idea to choose an intermediate pump, #3 for example, but we can choose any one of these 6 pumps, as long as we make adjustments in the control circuit.
> 
> All this control will be done by the CPU, so we must inform which pump we choose through the DC_LL parameter. This way, the value of DC_LL (milliohms) must match the value of LLC (milliohms) chosen so that the CPU does all the calculations correctly.
> 
> The next pump to choose is AC_LL.
> _(This is the load variation compensation component)._
> 
> This parameter makes the CPU, upon perceiving an increase in the water flow to the LOAD, to increase the VID value sent to the VRM, in order to anticipate the losses that this flow increase could cause. Therefore, the VRM uses the LLC and AC_LL pumps to fulfill the CPU VID request.
> 
> So if we have a stronger LLC pump, we can use a weaker AC_LL pump and vice versa.
> 
> Some combinations are not recommended, for example: two weak pumps or two strong pumps.
> 
> All this game can be done according to the desired goals.
> 
> *Comparison with fixed voltage:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bye bye level control.... 😂
> You will need to run all the time with some "fat" voltage to be stable while the flow comes...


Maybe i'm missing something, but to me, it is the normal way for a cpu to operate, can't really make a connection with the fixed core thing, without dedicated AC_LLC.

As pointed out by a comment above, AC_LLC is a parameter that should be automatically configured based on the cpu silicon quality.

I completely understand the way cpu manufacturers want to maximize profits by adding more sophisticated control algorithm.

But to me, this show two things.
Either the cpu and/or vrm telemetry have become too slow, the I²C, SMBus are not fast enough to cope with fast transient loads?
Either this is a way to mitigate the bin variation between the samples?

If i check any other semiconductor datasheet, the binning curve is fairly constant over time, avoiding constant power delivery changes of customers designs.
Which would translate in a fairly stable AC_LLC, that could be applied to many samples without issues.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

RobertoSampaio said:


> I sent him these configs... LOL
> 
> Try AC_LL 0.25
> 
> It is easy to understand this way....LOL
> '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
> 
> *Understanding LLC, AC_LL & DC_LL:*
> 
> Let's first understand load lines:
> 
> For this, didactically, we will exchange the electric current for a flow of water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our goal is to adjust the circuit so that the tanks remain at the same levels at all times, regardless of LOAD.
> 
> The resistance to the passage of water in the “Load Line” piping is physical and intrinsic to its construction.
> _(This is the physical wire from the VRM to the CPU)._
> 
> As the LOAD varies all the time, the CPU tank level tends to get higher or lower than the VRM tank in an uncontrolled way.
> 
> So let's take control !
> 
> For that we have 2 pumps: the LLC pump and the AC_LL pump.
> 
> The first thing to do is to choose an LLC pump that will compensate for losses in the load line pipe.
> _(This is the VRM impedance characteristic, which determines the voltage drop as current flows)._
> Ideally, the pump should be neither too strong nor too weak.
> 
> We have 8 LLC pumps to choose from.
> Pumps #7 and #8 are very strong and are not viable for daily use. So we have six pumps left.
> It seems to me a good idea to choose an intermediate pump, #3 for example, but we can choose any one of these 6 pumps, as long as we make adjustments in the control circuit.
> 
> All this control will be done by the CPU, so we must inform which pump we choose through the DC_LL parameter. This way, the value of DC_LL (milliohms) must match the value of LLC (milliohms) chosen so that the CPU does all the calculations correctly.
> 
> The next pump to choose is AC_LL.
> _(This is the load variation compensation component)._
> 
> This parameter makes the CPU, upon perceiving an increase in the water flow to the LOAD, to increase the VID value sent to the VRM, in order to anticipate the losses that this flow increase could cause. Therefore, the VRM uses the LLC and AC_LL pumps to fulfill the CPU VID request.
> 
> So if we have a stronger LLC pump, we can use a weaker AC_LL pump and vice versa.
> 
> Some combinations are not recommended, for example: two weak pumps or two strong pumps.
> 
> All this game can be done according to the desired goals.
> 
> *Comparison with fixed voltage:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bye bye level control.... 😂
> You will need to run all the time with some "fat" voltage to be stable for while the flow comes...


Thanks for this explanation. I will definitely need to read it a few times.

Here is my 12700K vid after running CB R23 with AC LL set to 0.25 and DC LL set to 1.1 using auto core voltage and 5.0 all core:


----------



## acoustic

Falkentyne said:


> MSI has always used 1/100 mohm for their AC/DC Loadlines, including in their laptops.
> so MSI value divided by 100= Asus value.
> MSI "100" = 100/100=1 mOhm=Asus value.
> 
> So in that above screenshot, "80" = 80/100 =0.8 mOhm.


Yep, that's what I was saying. Though I'm reading your post as if you're correcting me, but it could just be I just woke up and my eyes are still blurry/brain is still slow. Lol


----------



## Bobbylee

Don't know how you guys are hitting 30k on r23, is anyone able to offer some tips? Here's where I am currently, stable but HOT


----------



## Forsaken1

^^^^
Scores are normal/good.Much above your score
is chilled water or other.


----------



## owikh84

ThinbinJim said:


> Die sense or socket sense? Have Asus brought the die sense vcore sensor to the strix lineup yet?


No idea, there's no option to choose between die/socket sense in the BIOS either. 
I also want to know about this.


----------



## Bobbylee

Forsaken1 said:


> ^^^^
> Scores are normal/good.Much above your score
> is chilled water or other.


Thanks for confirming, yeah my loop is hot, I have a 3090 mining so waters always around 30c.
I managed to get 29.2k with latest 0801 bios, no other changes.

also any idea why my bus clock frequencies seem to be running 99.8 rather than 100 I set in bios?


----------



## acoustic

RobertoSampaio said:


> The problem is to know the LLCs impedance...


Easy to calculate though! Set voltage to Adaptive/Auto, VCC Sense, and make VID match VR VOUT.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

acoustic said:


> Easy to calculate though! Set voltage to Adaptive/Auto, VCC Sense, and make VID match VR VOUT.


Yes... I know how to do it... But it's not so easy to explain that...
I'll write about this when I have some time...


----------



## SuperMumrik

Did a few "CPU profile" runs @5.5/4.5/4.5
Apex allowed me to run e-cores @4.5Ghz, but I could not beat my 4.4 e-core run on strix-a.
Oh well, lets hope I'm able to snag a nice ram kit someday


----------



## acoustic

RobertoSampaio said:


> Yes... I know how to do it... But it's not so easy to explain that...
> I'll write about this when I have some time...


If my dumbass was able to figure it out from your lesson on it in the 10900K thread, I think everyone else can too LOL


----------



## Carillo

2 more  Week 36 Kina. 🤞 . Anyone share the same batch number ?


----------



## carlhil2

Is this too high or am I just buggin'? not mine. mine run at 1.041


----------



## cstkl1

carlhil2 said:


> Is this too high or am I just buggin'? not mine. mine run at 1.041
> View attachment 2532611


mine ES 0.85 and retail 0.95 daily


----------



## carlhil2

cstkl1 said:


> mine ES 0.85 and retail 0.95 daily


Yeah, I run a little higher for my gaming profile with e-cores disabled.


----------



## OCmember

@Carillo Was your memory stable with that 40.9ns latency?


----------



## 1devomer

Someone asked how to assess the AVX2 stability, here is a good tool for that.

@Falkentyne suggested assessing the AVX2 the stability, with the chess engine StockFish, known to be used also as a cpu benchmark.
You can get StockFish AVX2 here, one also needs the chess graphical user interface, able to run the chess engine, available here.

Then:
-Extract Arena chess GUI.
-Extract the StockFish engine into the Arena chess GUI engine folder.
-Run Arena chess GUI, go to the _Engines_ tab, _Install New Engine._
-Select the StockFish engine from the engine folder.
-Then _Engine _tab again, _Manage_.
-Load Stockfish, remove the other existing loaded engines.
-Always in the _Engine Management_, _go to the UCI _tab.
-Set your *n° of thread *with _the CPU Cores Settings, _at the bottom_._
-_Apply_, now go to the _Levels _tab, click on _Infinite_.
-Launch the test with the double arrows icon, or going into the _Game _tab, clicking onto _Demo_.
-To stop the test, there is a small cross icon, or into the Game tab,_ Stop Calculating_.
(-If _Infinite _is too heavy, one can try the _Blitz Levels_.)

The cpu will try to compute the next player move for an infinite amount of time, the raw cpu heat output is quite low, compared to the power used in this test.
In my case, Prime95 AVX draw 200Watt, StockFish AVX2 185Watt, Prime95 NO AVX 167Watt, CB R23 AVX 166Watt.
But the StockFish L0 error detection rate is quite high, compared to other test, altogether with running relatively cool cpu T°, compared to the output power.

My current 10600k will output L0 errors on AVX2 _Infinite _Level at 5Ghz, still it is able to deal with the daily and gaming tasks, without crashing or outputting L0 errors.


----------



## Carillo

Carillo said:


> 2 more  Week 36 Kina. 🤞 . Anyone share the same batch number ?


Identical batch numbers. One was SP79 and the other ?  Christmas came early :


----------



## kmellz

Lurifaks said:


> Thank you for testing!
> 
> I was waiting to see how it went for you
> 
> Then I continue to use the Corsair AIO with lga1200 kit, until the lf2 kit arrives


I actually got it working now!
Was overthinking it way too much, sure I could have messed around with the standoffs... but the problem was actually that I had done a too thin application of thermalpaste, it would have been fine with the new mount, but with this one there was too much space left still.
So bought a temporary paste and applied a generous amount, running 8P/4E now, albeit not with all the boosting and normal max speeds etc, but plenty fine till the 1700 kit arrives!

So now I can have some fun with memory oc until then.


----------



## skullbringer

2nd chip seems quite a bit better


Nizzen said:


> t-bag? 😂


you're not wrong... SP 93

so China... SP 96 P-Core needs 1.199 Vmin for x51 in LinpackXtreme 10G. this SP 101 P-Core needs 1.162 Vmin for x52 

this spread for a 5 point delta in P-core SP hopefully isn't representative...


----------



## famich

Carillo said:


> 2 more  Week 36 Kina. 🤞 . Anyone share the same batch number ?


Hi.I got V136J679


----------



## 911gt3

RobertoSampaio said:


> It's not perfect, but it's a way to understand them...
> 
> Let's first understand load lines:
> 
> For this, didactically, we will exchange the electric current for a flow of water.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our goal is to adjust the circuit so that the tanks remain at the same levels at all times, regardless of LOAD.
> 
> The resistance to the passage of water in the “Load Line” piping is physical and intrinsic to its construction.
> _(This is the physical wire from the VRM to the CPU)._
> 
> As the LOAD varies all the time, the CPU tank level tends to get higher or lower than the VRM tank in an uncontrolled way.
> 
> So let's take control !
> 
> For that we have 2 pumps: the LLC pump and the AC_LL pump.
> 
> The first thing to do is to choose an LLC pump that will compensate for losses in the load line pipe.
> _(This is the VRM impedance characteristic, which determines the voltage drop as current flows)._
> Ideally, the pump should be neither too strong nor too weak.
> 
> We have 8 LLC pumps to choose from.
> Pumps #7 and #8 are very strong and are not viable for daily use. So we have six pumps left.
> It seems to me a good idea to choose an intermediate pump, #3 for example, but we can choose any one of these 6 pumps, as long as we make adjustments in the control circuit.
> 
> All this control will be done by the CPU, so we must inform which pump we choose through the DC_LL parameter. This way, the value of DC_LL (milliohms) must match the value of LLC (milliohms) chosen so that the CPU does all the calculations correctly.
> 
> The next pump to choose is AC_LL.
> _(This is the load variation compensation component)._
> 
> This parameter makes the CPU, upon perceiving an increase in the water flow to the LOAD, to increase the VID value sent to the VRM, in order to anticipate the losses that this flow increase could cause. Therefore, the VRM uses the LLC and AC_LL pumps to fulfill the CPU VID request.
> 
> So if we have a stronger LLC pump, we can use a weaker AC_LL pump and vice versa.
> 
> Some combinations are not recommended, for example: two weak pumps or two strong pumps.
> 
> All this game can be done according to the desired goals.
> 
> *Comparison with fixed voltage:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bye bye level control.... 😂
> You will need to run all the time with some "fat" voltage to be stable while the flow comes...


Excellent! I have found in my 51 years on this world that explaining electricity in terms of water flow is the easiest way to get a novice to understand. Current = volume of water, voltage = water pressure, Ohms = restriction to flow, Watts is water power (volume * pressure), switches are valves, etc.


----------



## Carillo

OCmember said:


> @Carillo Was your memory stable with that 40.9ns latency?


no 🤣


----------



## Frozburn

Overclocking gods, can you give me any info about this chip based on its batch number? Where does it stand? Don't have a cooler atm so I can't test it.


----------



## Carillo

Frozburn said:


> Overclocking gods, can you give me any info about this chip based on its batch number? Where does it stand? Don't have a cooler atm so I can't test it.
> 
> View attachment 2532633


Yes you can. Hair-dryer


----------



## 86Jarrod

Carillo said:


> 2 more  Week 36 Kina. 🤞 . Anyone share the same batch number ?


I have a V136J566 sp 79 trash. Waiting on a KF coming fri


----------



## Carillo

12900k's tested so far:

V136J516 SP79
V138I889 SP79
X141J925 SP80 
V136J516 SP90 

Receiving 3 more retail 12900k's tomorrow


----------



## IronAge

I am afraid of putting things together since i have a bad premonition concerning SP.


----------



## shrimpmaster

I have no way to check my SP since I have TUF bios, but my 12700k requires 1.18vmin at 4.8Ghz to pass linpack xtreme 10G. If i drop voltage by only 20mv it crashes within a few minutes.
Keep in mind i'm using tuned DDR4 and have e cores enabled.

Everyone here seems to have good chips, and i'm seriously considering getting a new 12700k, I think this is the worse result here.
Should I? I don't think I can get a worse chip than this.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Is anyone running "by core" + OCTVB profile with the 0801 bios?


----------



## shrimpmaster

RobertoSampaio said:


> Is anyone running "by core" + OCTVB profile with the 0801 bios?


Well, I'm running stock + OCTVB +2. Bios 0801 z690 tuf.. But it's because my chip is really bad that isn't even worth to OC.
Everyone here showing their 5.1ghz 1.17v...
While I need 1.18vmin at just 4.8ghz for linpack xtreme 10G... 😥


----------



## RobertoSampaio

shrimpmaster said:


> Well, I'm running stock + OCTVB +2. Bios 0801 z690 tuf.. But it's because my chip is really bad that isn't even worth to OC.
> Everyone here showing their 5.1ghz 1.17v...
> While I need 1.18vmin at just 4.8ghz for linpack xtreme 10G... 😥


Did you tuned the load lines?
Which MB do you have?
Tell me the
LLC#
AC_LL
DC_LL
You are running...


Is it possible to share your bios.txt file?


----------



## IronAge

@shrimpmaster

Linpack puts extreme load on the CPU, it uses AVX2 and FMA3 AFAIK, last time i used it with Haswell to stress my CPUs.

Why not just use CB23 like most people do for better comparison ?

*Somebodys 12900K with the same batch as my 12900K has SP107 for the P-Cores*, it would ruin my day if mine has less than 90.


----------



## shrimpmaster

RobertoSampaio said:


> Did you tuned the load lines?
> Which MB do you have?
> Tell me the
> LLC#
> AC_LL
> DC_LL
> You are running...
> 
> 
> Is it possible to share your bios.txt file?


Asus z690 TUF, 0801 bios.

LLC4
AC_LL auto
DC_LL auto

DDR4 3866mhz gear 1, tuned (~600gflops linpack xtreme)
Manual vcore: 1.27v(linpack xtreme 10g vcore drops to 1.18v).
Sync all cores: 48.


@IronAge 
For cinebench r23 5ghz minimum load voltage is 1.26v, less than that crashes fast.


----------



## Bobbylee

RobertoSampaio said:


> Did you tuned the load lines?
> Which MB do you have?
> Tell me the
> LLC#
> AC_LL
> DC_LL
> You are running...
> 
> 
> Is it possible to share your bios.txt file?


I had issues on 0801, not following settings for tvb, tuf Wi-Fi ddr4, llc 1, acll 0.6 dcll 1.7


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Bobbylee said:


> I had issues on 0801, not following settings for tvb, tuf Wi-Fi ddr4, llc 1, acll 0.6 dcll 1.7


Yes... Im' checking this....


----------



## destylock

shrimpmaster said:


> Asus z690 TUF, 0801 bios.
> 
> LLC4
> AC_LL auto
> DC_LL auto
> 
> DDR4 3866mhz gear 1, tuned (~600gflops linpack xtreme)
> Manual vcore: 1.27v(linpack xtreme 10g vcore drops to 1.18v).
> Sync all cores: 48.
> 
> 
> @IronAge
> For cinebench r23 5ghz minimum load voltage is 1.26v, less than that crashes fast.


What SP is that ?
I get 5.3 all core Cinebench at 1.24vcore.


----------



## shrimpmaster

destylock said:


> What SP is that ?
> I get 5.3 all core Cinebench at 1.24vcore.


Exactly... I don't know SP, TUF bios doesn't have it, only Strix does.


----------



## IronAge

V137J322 (SP 92 P-Cores / SP 69 E-Cores)

So from Week 38 and up the final 52x ratio applies @ stock with Turbo Boost Max 3.0 enabled.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

destylock said:


> What SP is that ?
> I get 5.3 all core Cinebench at 1.24vcore.


Wow!
Nice results...
How about temps?
Full load P-53x and how about e-cores full load?
Are you running by core or synched?


----------



## Carillo

Does MSI have some kind of SP rating on they´re boards now ? Anyone with MSI ?


----------



## owikh84

12900K SP 91
52 | 41 
ROG Strix Z690-A | BIOS 0707 (0801 Gear1 won't boot at DDR4-4000+)
2x16GB DDR4-4000 CL17-17-17-37-2T Gear1 @ 1.40v

Auto vCore
LLC3 AC/DC 0.25/1.1
vid reduced from 1.25v (AC/DC 0.39/1.1) to 1.22v, core temps also went down by 7C.


----------



## destylock

RobertoSampaio said:


> Wow!
> Nice results...
> How about temps?
> Full load P-53x and how about e-cores full load?
> Are you running by core or synched?


Im using your guide lol,

53x8 and 41x8 temps about peaks from like 80-92 at like 250 watts.
It’s 1.24 vcore measured in hwinfo, vid is higher.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

destylock said:


> Im using your guide lol,
> 
> 53x8 and 41x8 temps about peaks from like 80-92 at like 250 watts.
> It’s 1.24 vcore measured in hwinfo, vid is higher.


😂😂😂

It's true... 
Sorry, I'm talking to a lot of people at the same time...LOL

So try to apply an +1 or +2 boost profile...


----------



## destylock

RobertoSampaio said:


> 😂😂😂
> 
> It's true...
> Sorry, I'm talking to a lot of people at the same time...LOL
> 
> So try to apply an +1 or +2 boost profile...


I already have +2, it goes to 5.7 single core.

All core full load at 5.3

I will lower it to All core 5.2 though. 5.3 is finicky sometimes, it's stable then it's not. I don't feel like playing with all the other voltages to get it stable 24/7

So I will do 52x8,53x6,55x3 with +2 Boost profile.


----------



## destylock

deleted


----------



## Exilon

acoustic said:


> Easy to calculate though! Set voltage to Adaptive/Auto, VCC Sense, and make VID match VR VOUT.


How many boards even have calibrated VR out? Without that you're going to have to guess by VRM amps from a clamp meter.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

destylock said:


> I already have +2, it goes to 5.7 single core.
> 
> All core full load at 5.3
> 
> I will lower it to All core 5.2 though. 5.3 is finicky sometimes, it's stable then it's not. I don't feel like playing with all the other voltages to get it stable 24/7
> 
> So I will do 52x8,53x6,55x3 with +2 Boost profile.


You did better than me... LOL...
It is cool that my guide helped you...

5700Mhz is a very nice OCTVB!
And full load p51x or p52x is great!


----------



## Rena Ryugu

SuperMumrik said:


> Did a few "CPU profile" runs @5.5/4.5/4.5
> Apex allowed me to run e-cores @4.5Ghz, but I could not beat my 4.4 e-core run on strix-a.
> Oh well, lets hope I'm able to snag a nice ram kit someday


Could you reach 32000 in r23 or 12000 in r20 with that setting?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Rena Ryugu said:


> Could you reach 32000 in r23 or 12000 in r20 with that setting?


For reach high scores like that you need a brutal full load configuration and a heavy cooler solution...

We are overclocking the TVB... It's for single thread results...


----------



## Forsaken1

These chips are infernos when overclocking.Even on sub ambient❄.Need to set up the pot
56P 43E.Chilled Water.
$230 mobo meet 12900k.


----------



## gerardfraser

Carillo said:


> Does MSI have some kind of SP rating on they´re boards now ? Anyone with MSI ?


MSI MEG motherboards to use CPU Force 2 to estimate if you have a Good/Bad CPU for overclocking. Similar to SP on ASUS Motherboards.
CPU Force 2:


Lower the score, lower Vcore for stability. Better overclocking capability
Score cannot be compared between different segments. For example, an i9-12900k scored 95 is not better than a 98 i7-12700K
CPU force can identify the physique of the CPU (overclocking potential)


----------



## raad11

I haven't oc-ed yet on it, but I can boot into 4100 in Gear 1 on 0801 (Strix Z690-A WiFi D4). Not stable enough for my liking, I'm tuning around 3900 or 4000 then trying to OC the CPU.

This BIOS seemingly fixed my random reboots from 0605 which I experienced on two different motherboards (same model).

Roberto, do you make these BIOSes? Do you work for Asus or know them or something?


----------



## cstkl1

i9-12900k - SP93
MZ690 Apex - 0702
G.Skill 2x16gb 6400 c28-37-37-28 280 1T @1.55v
SA|txvddq|MC - 0.9v|1.45v|1.45v


----------



## RobertoSampaio

raad11 said:


> I haven't oc-ed yet on it, but I can boot into 4100 in Gear 1 on 0801 (Strix Z690-A WiFi D4). Not stable enough for my liking, I'm tuning around 3900 or 4000 then trying to OC the CPU.
> 
> This BIOS seemingly fixed my random reboots from 0605 which I experienced on two different motherboards (same model).
> 
> Roberto, do you make these BIOSes? Do you work for Asus or know them or something?


I don't work for asus... but i would like to... lol
Shamino from Asus invited me to join the Z690 platform test team.


----------



## Exilon

I've tried using OCTVB to do a +1 and +2 for light multi-thread workloads like gaming but the power cost is too great for the gain. Almost double power for 4% more frequency in Apex. I feel like that's why Intel dropped it at the last minute.


----------



## raad11

So now that I can change VDDQ TX voltage, what's safe 24/7 values for this and VCCSA on this board? It went to 1.35 on both itself with faster RAM, but is above 1.4 safe or ok? I think the highest I had on my old Z390 was 1.36-1.38 for VCCIO/VCCSA, but I may need 1.42-1.44 to get the memory oc I want on this one.


----------



## Relent

raad11 said:


> So now that I can change VDDQ TX voltage, what's safe 24/7 values for this and VCCSA on this board? It went to 1.35 itself with faster RAM, but is above 1.4 safe or ok? I think the highest I had on my old Z390 was 1.36-1.38, but I may need 1.42-1.44 to get the memory oc I want on this one.


Is the VDDQ voltage below system agent? have you tried 1.35 and 1.35?

I can do 4133-15-16-16 with these two


----------



## raad11

Matzito said:


> Is the VDDQ voltage below system agent? have you tried 1.35 and 1.35?
> 
> I can do 4133-15-16-16 with these two


Yeah, it was on 1.35 for both automatically. I am trying for CL14. I got it at 4000 14-16-16 with 1.38/1.38 for both, I'm pushing for 14-15-15 now. It will do 3900 14-15-15-28 at 1.35/1.35 auto (didn't try lowering it).


----------



## shamino1978

RobertoSampaio said:


> Yes... Im' checking this....


remove or up vr voltage limit
it is already clipping me in the bios at 1500, i set to 1650 and no more clipping.


----------



## Relent

raad11 said:


> Yeah, it was on 1.35 for both automatically. I am trying for CL14. I got it at 4000 14-16-16 with 1.38/1.38 for both, I'm pushing for 14-15-15 now. It will do 3900 14-15-15-28 at 1.35/1.35 auto (didn't try lowering it).


Might be the CPU bin, I have a kit that can do 4133-c14 but is not possible with Alder Lake, also 4000c14 not possible (tried very high and low voltages)

BIOS 0707 (can do 4000 but not stable)
BIOS 0801 (cant do 4000)


----------



## raad11

Matzito said:


> Might be the CPU bin, I have a kit that can do 4133-c14 but is not possible with Alder Lake, also 4000c14 not possible (tried very high and low voltages)


Is 1.45/1.45 for VDDQ and VCCSA safe tho


----------



## TheSteez

RobertoSampaio said:


> I don't work for asus... but i would like to... lol
> Shamino from Asus invited me to join the Z690 platform test team.


That's pretty cool. I'd love to work in IT doing stuff like this. Do you know what the payscale is by chance?


----------



## Relent

raad11 said:


> Is 1.45/1.45 for VDDQ and VCCSA safe tho


Interesting, do you have a source?


----------



## raad11

Matzito said:


> Interesting, do you have a source?


Sorry, I'm asking, not telling lol. Is it safe?


----------



## Bilco

Any info on any ddr5 releases states side? I've been hawking the common sites but don't see any. Heard there may be some releases soon.


----------



## HiLuckyB

Only DDR5 I've seen is on ebay for $800-$1,200...
I'm sitting here with a useless 12900KF, MSI DDR5 motherboard because of it.


----------



## IronAge

HiLuckyB said:


> Only DDR5 I've seen is on ebay for $800-$1,200...
> I'm sitting here with a useless 12900KF, MSI DDR5 motherboard because of it.


Scalpers delight, just buy DDR4 board for temporary usage then ? I have one 32GB DDR5-4800 DC Kit left that i could pass to sb who is in need.


----------



## Cuthalu

raad11 said:


> Is 1.45/1.45 for VDDQ and VCCSA safe tho


This is what I'm wondering, too. During Z390 era, AFAIK, 1.25 v was the upper limit for safe 24/7 voltage. And what's safe for MC?


----------



## HiLuckyB

IronAge said:


> Scalpers delight, just buy DDR4 board for temporary usage then ? I have one 32GB DDR5-4800 DC Kit left that i could pass to sb who is in need.


I would like to just buy any 32gb DDR5 kit I can get, And I can always upgrade to something faster later. Swapping motherboards is to much work lol.
So if someone is looking to sell a 32gb kit, And ship in the US let me know!


----------



## RobertoSampaio

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
ALERT !
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''​
A problem with adaptive voltage control was detected in Asus beta BIOS 0801

It is recommended to revert to 0702


Download link:









ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...


Disclaimer ! These settings and methods are outside Intel's specifications, just like any other overclocking method. ---------------------------------------------------- For Z790/13900K click here Introduction: In a world increasingly concerned with natural resources, the watchword is...




www.overclock.net


----------



## owikh84

RobertoSampaio said:


> ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
> ALERT !
> ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''​
> A problem with adaptive voltage control was detected in Asus BIOS 0801
> 
> It is recommended to revert to 0702
> 
> 
> Download link:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...
> 
> 
> Disclaimer ! These settings and methods are outside Intel's specifications, just like any other overclocking method. ---------------------------------------------------- For Z790/13900K click here Introduction: In a world increasingly concerned with natural resources, the watchword is...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


How about 0707? Any problem?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

owikh84 said:


> How about 0707? Any problem?


0707 is OK... the issue is with beta 0801.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

The problem in beta 0801 affects adaptive voltage for some frequencies.


----------



## Dingdong630

Forsaken1 said:


> These chips are infernos when overclocking.Even on sub ambient❄.Need to set up the pot
> 56P 43E.Chilled Water.
> $230 mobo meet 12900k.
> 
> View attachment 2532716


How did you figure out how good your chip is?


----------



## roooo

Early X-mas here as well with a V135I529, though I can't say I was unhappy with my previous SP85


----------



## SoldierRBT

Can anyone with Z690 Apex board test 1.40v set Vcore with LLC4/LLC5? 2 other friends and me are getting 50mv less idle voltage before LLC. Just wondering if it's normal. Both of my Z390/Z490 Apex would idle at 1.385v in Windows with 1.40v vcore


----------



## roooo

SoldierRBT said:


> Can anyone with Z690 Apex board test 1.40v set Vcore with LLC4/LLC5? 2 other friends and me are getting 50mv less idle voltage before LLC. Just wondering if it's normal. Both of my Z390/Z490 Apex would idle at 1.385v in Windows with 1.40v vcore


Sorry - still on Strix-A D4....

BTW...the pix in your post don't zoom out...intentional?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

SoldierRBT said:


> Can anyone with Z690 Apex board test 1.40v set Vcore with LLC4/LLC5? 2 other friends and me are getting 50mv less idle voltage before LLC. Just wondering if it's normal. Both of my Z390/Z490 Apex would idle at 1.385v in Windows with 1.40v vcore
> View attachment 2532810
> 
> View attachment 2532811


It all depends on SVID if AC_LL and DC_LL are in AUTO... 
And the idle frequency....
If you want to override the voltage, I recommend you at least to inform the CPU which LLC you are using...
And the other people you are going to compare voltages shall do the same...

For LLC#4 use DC_LL =.0.98
For LLC#5 use DC_LL = 0.73


----------



## SoldierRBT

roooo said:


> Sorry - still on Strix-A D4....
> 
> BTW...the pix in your post don't zoom out...intentional?


No idea. Right click on the image and select Open image in a new tab



RobertoSampaio said:


> It all depends on SVID if AC_LL and DC_LL are in AUTO...
> If you want to override the voltage, I recommend you at least to inform the CPU which LLC you are using...
> And the other people you are going to compare voltages shall do the same...


Yes, AC_LL and DC_LL are on auto. Tested LLC4 and LLC5 and getting same 50mv less before LLC.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

SoldierRBT said:


> No idea. Right click on the image and select Open image in a new tab
> 
> 
> Yes, AC_LL and DC_LL are on auto. Tested LLC4 and LLC5 and getting same 50mv less before LLC.


If you let them AUTO it will depend on the SVID you selected...
Are you syncing all cores?


----------



## raad11

RobertoSampaio said:


> The problem in beta 0801 affects adaptive voltage for some frequencies.


Is it a problem if on Stock/Auto?

And is 0707 okay for the Z690-A Strix D4? I forgot which, but there was a problem with one of the BIOSes for this board? May have been an earlier 070 BIOS...


----------



## SoldierRBT

RobertoSampaio said:


> If you let them AUTO it will depend on the SVID you selected...
> Are you syncing all cores?


Yes, all cores fixed 5.1/4.2ghz - 4ghz ecores. SVID is on auto in BIOS


----------



## roooo

raad11 said:


> Is it a problem if on Stock/Auto?
> 
> And is 0707 okay for the Z690-A Strix D4? I forgot which, but there was a problem with one of the BIOSes for this board? May have been an earlier 070 BIOS...


The issue was with 0801 IIRC.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

raad11 said:


> Is it a problem if on Stock/Auto?
> 
> And is 0707 okay for the Z690-A Strix D4? I forgot which, but there was a problem with one of the BIOSes for this board? May have been an earlier 070 BIOS...


I don't think so... but you can't fine control the interpolation of the adaptive voltage for frequencies above 5200MHz...
If you are not playing with an extreme high frequency and voltages, you probably will not feel the issue...
But it's highly recommended rolling back to 0702.
It's not clear yet if it is an ucode issue or an interpolation issue.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

SoldierRBT said:


> Yes, all cores fixed 5.1/4.2ghz - 4ghz ecores. SVID is on auto in BIOS


Synched P51x/E40x ring auto?


----------



## SoldierRBT

RobertoSampaio said:


> Synched P51x/E40x ring auto?


Ring is 4.2ghz


----------



## cstkl1

that scroll lock legacy game thing pretty cool

it puts the ecores to sleep.


----------



## Falkentyne

SoldierRBT said:


> Can anyone with Z690 Apex board test 1.40v set Vcore with LLC4/LLC5? 2 other friends and me are getting 50mv less idle voltage before LLC. Just wondering if it's normal. Both of my Z390/Z490 Apex would idle at 1.385v in Windows with 1.40v vcore
> View attachment 2532810
> 
> View attachment 2532811


Didn't I already tell you in the last reply that this is exactly how it's supposed to be?
My Z690 Extreme is exactly like this.
The BIOS puts a very light load on the chip. I mentioned this in my last message. It's like you just ignored me or something or maybe you were not satisfied with my answer and you wanted double confirmation? That's not healthy....
Even windows "idle" is not really idle unless C-states are enabled. 15mv vdroop in windows is normal for LLC5 when doing nothing.. LLC3 could even have 40mv vdroop just at "idle".

The only person who actually had a problem was someone who used LLC8 and had 40mv vdroop in BIOS/windows (which means LLC8 was not working at all or there was some other strange problem).


----------



## RobertoSampaio

SoldierRBT said:


> Ring is 4.2ghz


P51x/E40x/R42x
It is a high ring clock to stabilize...

If you want to try a suggestion....

Let the ring AUTO for now, set these configs below and tell me if it run better.

VMaxStress = Enable
VotageOtimization = Enable
Voltage = AUTO (do not use voltage override)
LLC#3
AC_LL = 0.25
DC_LL = 1.1

If it is stable, lower VF#6 reducing Vcore until stable.


----------



## destylock

Is the ring ratio worth overclocking ?

Also should I manually set my SA,L2 voltage manually instead of auto ?


----------



## SoldierRBT

Falkentyne said:


> Didn't I already tell you in the last reply that this is exactly how it's supposed to be?
> My Z690 Extreme is exactly like this.
> The BIOS puts a very light load on the chip. I mentioned this in my last message. It's like you just ignored me or something or maybe you were not satisfied with my answer and you wanted double confirmation? That's not healthy....
> Even windows "idle" is not really idle unless C-states are enabled. 15mv vdroop in windows is normal for LLC5 when doing nothing.. LLC3 could even have 40mv vdroop just at "idle".
> 
> The only person who actually had a problem was someone who used LLC8 and had 40mv vdroop in BIOS/windows (which means LLC8 was not working at all or there was some other strange problem).


The problem is I'm getting 50mv less in Windows LLC4/LLC5 when doing nothing instead of 15mv vdroop like you say (please check photos). If it was 15mv, it would be the same as my Z390/Z490 Apex which I consider normal. I already talked to that person he's not getting 40mv at LLC8, only 19mv (he explains this situation better in his post with LLC4). He's already RMA'd the board. 

Anyways, looking for results from Z690 Apex boards.


----------



## Forsaken1

Dingdong630 said:


> How did you figure out how good your chip is?


A good way to check chips is to run it.
Basic test.Set max volts on cpu your comfortable with.Load line 3 give or take.Play with SA volts.Run memory loose.Up multi till crash on boot.Back multi down one.All core test on light light.Progress into heavy work loads.Then try and figure how to keep cpu from throttling.

Short time on chip.Do not know where it will fall.Water was not to cold dew point issues.Think it might have 57p on proper water chilled.In windows at 57p all core.Time will tell.


----------



## Falkentyne

SoldierRBT said:


> The problem is I'm getting 50mv less in Windows LLC4/LLC5 when doing nothing instead of 15mv vdroop like you say (please check photos). If it was 15mv, it would be the same as my Z390/Z490 Apex which I consider normal. I already talked to that person he's not getting 40mv at LLC8, only 19mv (he explains this situation better in his post with LLC4). He's already RMA'd the board.
> 
> Anyways, looking for results from Z690 Apex boards.


I never got 15mv vdroop. I was only quoting your example.
The only time it was 15mv was with LLC7.

I know already some examples.
1.50v bios set + llc3=1.439v windows
1.455v bios set+llc3=1.403v windows.
1.30v bios set llc3 =1.243v or 1.255v windows. Sorry i don't remember the exact value.


----------



## gerardfraser

Dingdong630 said:


> How did you figure out how good your chip is?


I think I read you have a MSI Motherboard. 
MSI MEG motherboards to use CPU Force 2 to estimate if you have a Good/Bad CPU for overclocking. Similar to SP on ASUS Motherboards.
CPU Force 2:


Lower the score, lower Vcore for stability. Better overclocking capability
Score cannot be compared between different segments. For example, an i9-12900k scored 95 is not better than a 98 i7-12700K
CPU force can identify the physique of the CPU (overclocking potential)
I do not know what you want to do on the MSI Motherboard with your chip but I made a thread with adaptive voltage on MSI Motherboard,where you can get those high CPU clocks
(25) 12900K Overclock 5400Mhz With MSI Adaptive Voltage and AVX Offset Air Cooling | Overclock.net


----------



## skullbringer

12900K - SP93 (P 103) - E cores disabled
53/51 @ 1.217 Vmin (1.400 Vcore + LLC4)
CB R23 - Micron Rev A go BRRRRR!!! 









skullbringer`s Cinebench - R23 Multi Core with BenchMate score: 22089 cb with a Core i9 12900K (8P)


The Core i9 12900K (8P) @ 5300MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Cinebench - R23 Multi Core with BenchMate benchmark. skullbringerranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org


----------



## Carillo

Carillo said:


> 12900k's tested so far:
> 
> V136J516 SP79
> V138I889 SP79
> X141J925 SP80
> V136J516 SP90
> 
> Receiving 3 more retail 12900k's tomorrow


Update : 

Got the last 3 12900k's . They came from same vendor, with the same batchnumber : 

(1) V134K008 SP 79 
(2) V134K008 SP 88
(3) V134K008 SP 91   

So that leaves me with one SP 88 and one SP90 that i don't need. DM me with an offer if you are interested  

Sp 88 chip has P97/E72 
Sp 90 chip has P98/E76


----------



## raad11

Hm, yeah 0707 results in better FPS than 0801 when overclocked with AI Optimized, definitely something going on there at the high frequencies/light loads.

I know this is not as on topic, but curious if anyone would know if the looser timings of DDR4-4000 14-16-16-29 are worth it over DDR4-3900 14-15-15-28 ? The 100MHz jump more than makes up for the drop in those secondaries or are the tighter secondaries the better bet? Tertiaries all the same between them.


----------



## Bilco

IronAge said:


> Scalpers delight, just buy DDR4 board for temporary usage then ? I have one 32GB DDR5-4800 DC Kit left that i could pass to sb who is in need.


Pm'd

Also, DDR5 in stock State's side on newegg as of 3:10 EST:






Are you a human?







www.newegg.com





Lol, gone in 5 minutes and my initial payment was declined by my bank.... GG 🤬🤬🤬


----------



## raad11

raad11 said:


> Hm, yeah 0707 results in better FPS than 0801 when overclocked with AI Optimized, definitely something going on there at the high frequencies/light loads.
> 
> I know this is not as on topic, but curious if anyone would know if the looser timings of DDR4-4000 14-16-16-29 are worth it over DDR4-3900 14-15-15-28 ? The 100MHz jump more than makes up for the drop in those secondaries or are the tighter secondaries the better bet? Tertiaries all the same between them.


Ok this is weird af. I'm getting virtually the same or better latency at 4100 15-15-15-34 than 4000 14-16-16-29... framerate in game is better at 4100C15 too.

Is this expected or a quirk of the board or BIOS or.... ? I can't see the full RTL/IOL timings in MSI Dragon ball or whatever it's called and there's no Asrock Timing Configurator for Z690 yet, right? So I'm not sure what's going on. Even then I'd expect the board to train tighter timings at lower frequencies.


----------



## kmellz

1700 kit arrived today! Got to it and temps are good, idles between 26-30C full idle, 21C ambient. Currently messing around with the top end, ran a 5.2ghz P / 4ghz E, ring 4000mhz all core r23 just now which was.. a bit too high lol. Still finished though, 24k points. The ring OC might have pushed the temp up a ton though, gonna test lowering it again.
Edit: Wasn't the ring, was just 5.2 pushing the voltage to reeeally high levels, 5.1 all core was totally fine. 24.7k points
Edit: And sp 85 total, 95 P cores 57 e cores... yikes

Seem to have gotten a good IMC too, at least from shorter testing, not done any full stability testing yet.










4200mhz gear 1  RAM sadly isn't super spec for low timings, not gonna complain on those results though

Also, have been getting some random reboots, black screen into restart, no windows has crashed etc. From the AMD side I'm used to that meaning too low vcore usually, same here on intel?


----------



## raad11

kmellz said:


> 1700 kit arrived today! Got to it and temps are good, idles between 26-30C full idle, 21C ambient. Currently messing around with the top end, ran a 5.2ghz P / 4ghz E, ring 4000mhz all core r23 just now which was.. a bit too high lol. Still finished though, 24k points. The ring OC might have pushed the temp up a ton though, gonna test lowering it again.
> Edit: Wasn't the ring, was just 5.2 pushing the voltage to reeeally high levels, 5.1 all core was totally fine. 24.7k points
> Edit: And sp 85 total, 95 P cores 57 e cores... yikes
> 
> Seem to have gotten a good IMC too, at least from shorter testing, not done any full stability testing yet.
> 
> View attachment 2532844
> 
> 
> 4200mhz gear 1  RAM sadly isn't super spec for low timings, not gonna complain on those results though
> 
> Also, have been getting some random reboots, black screen into restart, no windows has crashed etc. From the AMD side I'm used to that meaning too low vcore usually, same here on intel?


That's great! I can only make it to 4100 in Gear 1 (at CL 16, didn't bother trying at slower timings). I'd try to tighten timings down, even dropping to 4100 or 4000 if necessary.

I had random reboots on an older BIOS, but not 0707. May want to check VCCSA and VDDQ voltages, because I don't know how high 'Auto' goes, but probably not high enough for 4200 in Gear 1 maybe...

Unless you're manually setting VCore, then that could also be it.


----------



## Carillo

Finally  4300 Cl14 1T Gear 1 stable  I needed a MSI board for that


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Carillo said:


> Finally  4300 Cl14 1T Gear 1 stable  I needed a MSI board for that
> 
> View attachment 2532858


I was going to trade up from a Tuf to a Strix but damn, MSI is just competing with itself at this point. I’ll pick up an MPG Edge at Microcenter before word gets out. Whoever is writing the bios for MSI… I hope they are well compensated.


----------



## owikh84

Carillo said:


> Finally  4300 Cl14 1T Gear 1 stable  I needed a MSI board for that


Nice! Do you have any 2x16GB B-die DR to test?


----------



## raad11

Carillo said:


> Finally  4300 Cl14 1T Gear 1 stable  I needed a MSI board for that
> 
> View attachment 2532858


That's awesome! What voltages are you running on SA and memory controller?


----------



## cptclutch

Would it be stupid to go from a 10900K at 5.2ghz all core to a 12600K? I wanted to wait for a bit but most of my games are still single core bound and I could pretty much swap for no cost with a 300$ 12600 and an MSI DDR4 board. Not really doing much multicore work.


----------



## cstkl1

cptclutch said:


> Would it be stupid to go from a 10900K at 5.2ghz all core to a 12600K? I wanted to wait for a bit but most of my games are still single core bound and I could pretty much swap for no cost with a 300$ 12600 and an MSI DDR4 board. Not really doing much multicore work.


cache


----------



## geriatricpollywog

cptclutch said:


> Would it be stupid to go from a 10900K at 5.2ghz all core to a 12600K? I wanted to wait for a bit but most of my games are still single core bound and I could pretty much swap for no cost with a 300$ 12600 and an MSI DDR4 board. Not really doing much multicore work.


12700K is the best choice for DDR4 gaming since you get all 8 P-cores and you’ll be disabling the e-cores anyway for latency. 10900K and 12600K both have 20MB cache. 12700K has 25MB. 12900K has 30MB.


----------



## gecko991

Just snagged a 12700K.


----------



## Exilon

Meh, I keep the E-cores on. With W11 it seems like a wash on average whether a game is faster or slower with the ring pushed to 4.2 and whenever I have to run multicore or have stuff in the background, it's a one-sided slaughter.


----------



## sugi0lover

Carillo said:


> Finally  4300 Cl14 1T Gear 1 stable  I needed a MSI board for that
> 
> View attachment 2532858


This is great. Can you share some more details like voltages, sub timings and etc? 
How about SOTTR bench?


----------



## raad11

Trying 2 dual rank DIMMs is a big yikes. Huge diff from 2 single rank. And I haven't even tried running any memory tests yet, the situation may be worse than what simply posts.

That's unfortunate. If that doesn't change with a new BIOS or something down the line I may return everything before the holiday return deadline (end of Jan). I can't have my personal computer with less than 32GB of RAM. And I don't want to spend the extra on DDR5 at the moment. Oh well.

Four single rank was even worse FWIW

Edit: This is the ROG Strix Z690-A D4, I'll post an update after experimenting with voltage and running some memory tests for errors


----------



## Relent

raad11 said:


> Trying 2 dual rank DIMMs is a big yikes. Huge diff from 2 single rank. And I haven't even tried running any memory tests yet, the situation may be worse than what simply posts.
> 
> That's unfortunate. If that doesn't change with a new BIOS or something down the line I may return everything before the holiday return deadline (end of Jan). I can't have my personal computer with less than 32GB of RAM. And I don't want to spend the extra on DDR5 at the moment. Oh well.
> 
> Four single rank was even worse FWIW
> 
> Edit: This is the ROG Strix Z690-A D4, I'll post an update after experimenting with voltage and running some memory tests for errors


I have an spare b-die 2x8GB SR kit (I havent tested it), I should be doing better than my 2x16GB DR (lot of issues with my strix, one day stable the other day not stable)


----------



## menko2

0451 said:


> 12700K is the best choice for DDR4 gaming since you get all 8 P-cores and you’ll be disabling the e-cores anyway for latency. 10900K and 12600K both have 20MB cache. 12700K has 25MB. 12900K has 30MB.


I see in some reviews and benchmarks in YouTube that at 4K games get around 10fps more with a 12900k over a 10900k with a RTX 3090.

Also the min fps and the frametime are better with the 12900k.

Is it accurate those results with z690 ddr4 motherboards and a 12900k?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

menko2 said:


> I see in some reviews and benchmarks in YouTube that at 4K games get around 10fps more with a 12900k over a 10900k with a RTX 3090.
> 
> Also the min fps and the frametime are better with the 12900k.
> 
> Is it accurate those results with z690 ddr4 motherboards and a 12900k?


Can you link the videos? My initial thought is that the 12900K has a 200mhz higher boost clock with stock settings. On my all-core overclocked 12700K, 5.2 all core is completely stable.


----------



## skullbringer

menko2 said:


> I see in some reviews and benchmarks in YouTube that at 4K games get around 10fps more with a 12900k over a 10900k with a RTX 3090.
> 
> Also the min fps and the frametime are better with the 12900k.
> 
> Is it accurate those results with z690 ddr4 motherboards and a 12900k?


yup, can confirm. margins become smaller at higher resolutions ofc, but the 12900k is always faster in gaming, also when "just" on ddr4









Core Wars: Alder, Rocket & Comet Lake at the RAM limit - benchmarks and gaming with DDR4 3733c14 Gear 1 | igor'sLAB


The new memory controller with DDR5 support is known to be one of the biggest changes in the 12th generation Intel Core CPUs. But DDR4 is also still supported – assuming an appropriate motherboard…




www.igorslab.de


----------



## geriatricpollywog

12700K @ 5.6 with MO-RA on the patio. HT OFF, E-cores OFF

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i7-12700K Processor,ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. TUF GAMING Z690-PLUS WIFI D4 (3dmark.com)


----------



## geriatricpollywog

For now until I upgrade to an MSI board...

Those minimums!

DDR4 yo


----------



## SuperMumrik

menko2 said:


> Also the min fps and the frametime are better with the 12900k.
> 
> Is it accurate those results with z690 ddr4 motherboards and a 12900k?


Yeah, I can confirm it to. Framerate stability on ADL is incredible.
Arguably, even better on DDR4 (if micron chips is you're only option).


----------



## ogider

Someone with arctic liquid freezer 2 checked if there is a difference in the cpu temperature when we mount the block in a different direction?
Like that










Or that


----------



## JoeRambo

0451 said:


> I’ll pick up an MPG Edge at Microcenter before word gets out. Whoever is writing the bios for MSI… I hope they are well compensated.


Same, Edge on the way already. I had amazing experience with Z490 Unify, and horrible experience with Gigabyte after that - so i had no question about which MB to go with for Z690. And reading forums around - boy I was right.
In fact the only dissapointment for me, is paying too little, i wish they had Z690 Unify DDR4 model.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

JoeRambo said:


> Same, Edge on the way already. I had amazing experience with Z490 Unify, and horrible experience with Gigabyte after that - so i had no question about which MB to go with for Z690. And reading forums around - boy I was right.
> In fact the only dissapointment for me, is paying too little, i wish they had Z690 Unify DDR4 model.


I had a great experience with the Z490 Unify as well.

My 1st Z590 board was the Asus Maximus 13 Apex. Was not impressed with the overclocking or feature set for the price. I upgraded to the AsRock Z590 OC Formula and never looked back. I wish AsRock would release a Z690 OC Formula DDR4 Edition. Like that’s ever going to happen 🤣


----------



## Carillo

owikh84 said:


> Nice! Do you have any 2x16GB B-die DR to test?


Sorry, not at this point :/


----------



## Carillo

raad11 said:


> That's awesome! What voltages are you running on SA and memory controller?


SA is 1,45  rest is auto


----------



## Carillo

sugi0lover said:


> This is great. Can you share some more details like voltages, sub timings and etc?
> How about SOTTR bench?


Yeah  im @ work. Will post later. WIll aslo do some D4 vs D5 benchmark comparison


----------



## menko2

0451 said:


> I had a great experience with the Z490 Unify as well.
> 
> My 1st Z590 board was the Asus Maximus 13 Apex. Was not impressed with the overclocking or feature set for the price. I upgraded to the AsRock Z590 OC Formula and never looked back. I wish AsRock would release a Z690 OC Formula DDR4 Edition. Like that’s ever going to happen 🤣


I always use Asus as motherboard. The best DDR4 from them is the Strix model.

Do you recommend it for a 12900k and 2x16gb b-die? I'll get the 12900k because of the better binning over the 12700k.

The Z690 Strix doesn't look bad but I rather check with you guys.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

menko2 said:


> I always use Asus as motherboard. The best DDR4 from them is the Strix model.
> 
> Do you recommend it for a 12900k and 2x16gb b-die? I'll get the 12900k because of the better binning over the 12700k.
> 
> The Z690 Strix doesn't look bad but I rather check with you guys.


I have a 12700K so I can’t comment on binning of 12900K. My Asus Tuf DDR4 is impressive but can’t match MSI results.

Unfortunately my local neighborhood Microcenter is loaded with Asus motherboards but not MSI.


----------



## menko2

0451 said:


> I have a 12700K so I can’t comment on binning of 12900K. My Asus Tuf DDR4 is impressive but can’t match MSI results.


More than CPU overclock speed I think the IMC is more important for a good ram overclock for gaming at 4k.
I have a dual rank 2x16gb Samsung b-die.

For DDR4 overclock will be better the MSI or the Asus motherboard?


----------



## sniperpowa

If only someone would make a overclock oriented ddr4 z690 with post code, safeboot etc. I’d love a z690 apex ddr4 especially with the horrible ram selection and non existent ddr5.


----------



## GtiJason

RobertoSampaio said:


> I don't think so... but you can't fine control the interpolation of the adaptive voltage for frequencies above 5200MHz...
> If you are not playing with an extreme high frequency and voltages, you probably will not feel the issue...
> But it's highly recommended rolling back to 0702.
> It's not clear yet if it is an ucode issue or an interpolation issue.


True, but bios 0702 also has bug where it will not apply DRAM V set in bios. I'd use 0707, 0006 or 0801* ( but not for Heavy OC/BenchingHWBot etc)
Edit: On Strix Z690-A Gaming wifi D4 board


----------



## Mad1137

Hey guys , got my new 12900k and it's SP84 , it's mean I got bad CPU ?? And how I can Oc my to all cores 51 I don't know about new CPU nothing


----------



## cstkl1

Mad1137 said:


> Hey guys , got my new 12900k and it's SP84 , it's mean I got bad CPU ?? And how I can Oc my to all cores 51 I don't know about new CPU nothing


@Nizzen sensei told me once
sp doesnt matter when u
delid/direct die/slap on mora. 

i concur.


----------



## Mad1137

cstkl1 said:


> @Nizzen sensei told me once
> sp doesnt matter when u
> delid/direct die/slap on mora.
> 
> i concur.


Em ))) no understand you mate


----------



## lolhaxz

Mad1137 said:


> Em ))) no understand you mate


What he is saying is that SP (generally a good INDICATOR) effectively is calculated from the approximate VID(s) required to maintain vmin (ie, higher SP, lower vcore) you will require to maintain a certain clock under load (assuming you can reach said clock) - a lower SP CPU will likely require a higher voltage. More voltage = more heat, not only does it become uncoolable, higher temperatures reduces stability - especially near the edge, when you are straddling the edge, even 10c matters.

Delidding basically makes normally uncoolable voltages quite manageable, I would also concur .

It appears around mid 70's is a "bad" roll of the dice, average is probably 80's, 90's needing quite a lot more luck and 100's quite unlikely.

I would not be discouraged by SP tho however without testing it... it's still very early days yet to draw any real conclusion on the absolute reliability of the SP indication.


----------



## Mad1137

lolhaxz said:


> What he is saying is that SP (generally a good INDICATOR) effectively dictates the approximate vmin you will require to maintain a certain clock under load (assuming you can reach said clock) - a lower SP CPU will likely require a higher voltage. More voltage = more heat, not only does it become uncoolable, higher temperatures reduces stability - especially near the edge, when you are straddling the edge, even 10c matters.
> 
> Delidding basically makes normally uncoolable voltages quite manageable, I would also concur .


Ah ok ) SP84 it's mean average right? Or it's bad 
)


----------



## lolhaxz

Mad1137 said:


> Ah ok ) SP84 it's mean average right? Or it's bad
> )


Edited my post - I would suggest its above average from looking at 2-3 12900K's myself and reading peoples input.

Unless you are prepared to go buy another 5-10 of them, I would say you should be quite pleased with 84... but again, remember, it's just a indication - it guarantees absolutely nothing.


----------



## roooo

Consider it average or even a bit above...


----------



## Nizzen

cstkl1 said:


> @Nizzen sensei told me once
> sp doesnt matter when u
> delid/direct die/slap on mora.
> 
> i concur.


Delid unlocked 10900k sp64 and sp87 to new levels, even the imc 

Lower max temp is king


----------



## Mad1137

lolhaxz said:


> Edited my post - I would suggest its above average from looking at 2-3 12900K's myself and reading peoples input.
> 
> Unless you are prepared to go buy another 5-10 of them, I would say you should be quite pleased with 84... but again, remember, it's just a indication - it guarantees absolutely nothing.


Thx ) also please , you know which voltage I can use for 5.1 P cores ?) Or average voltage , so I can try


----------



## lolhaxz

Nizzen said:


> Delid unlocked sp64 and sp87 to new levels, even the imc


We don't even know when the CPU's are "binned" / VID's are set.

I would argue it's plausible that TIM/soldering/application imperfections could potentially have an impact on the VID's - and thus delidding (to a marginal extent) re-rolls the dice.

2 cents thought of the day anyway.

My DD/delidded SP80 10900K @ 5.4G P95 80K stable at 1.32v load says hi.


----------



## roooo

Mad1137 said:


> Thx ) also please , you know which voltage I can use for 5.1 P cores ?) Or average voltage , so I can try


Check Roberto's great HowTo on that: ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...


----------



## Dingdong630

Should I keep looking for a better bin? Sp 80


----------



## roooo

Dingdong630 said:


> Should I keep looking for a better bin? Sp 80


I definitely would because your G/F might quit if you don't.... 

Seriously - depends on what you wanna do and how good your cooling is. SP80 isn't too great, so probably don't expect to run all-core 52x or high single-core TVB boosts like 56..57x without issues.


----------



## pumex

sugi0lover said:


> It seems like DDR4 Gear 1 4000+ is a lot easier with 12th Gen.
> This guy couldn't even boot 3866Mhz before and now he is at 4100Mhz with the same Gskill 4000 CL15 Ram kit.


Nice! I have the same motherboard. What exactly RAM did you use? What other RAM kits should I consider for gear 1?


----------



## sugi0lover

current bench result with my SP93 12900K.
I got 1% GPU Bound???
Anyway, I am gonna get higher SP 12900K tomorrow and see whether I can go higher.


----------



## SuperMumrik

sugi0lover said:


> current bench result with my SP93 12900K.
> I got 1% GPU Bound???
> Anyway, I am gonna get higher SP 12900K tomorrow and see whether I can go higher.


This was with DDR5 6400c30?

Here is my DDR4 [email protected] c15


----------



## sugi0lover

SuperMumrik said:


> This was with DDR5 6400c30?
> 
> Here is my DDR4 [email protected] c15
> View attachment 2532981


DDR5 6400 CL32 1T (oced from Hynix 4800 CL40)
Like the 11th gen, it seems like gear1 is great for gaming.


----------



## SuperMumrik

sugi0lover said:


> DDR5 6400 CL32 1T (oced from Hynix 4800 CL40)
> Like the 11th gen, it seems like gear1 is great for gaming.


Yeah, it really seems that way.
Here is my rather sad [email protected] on Apex for comparison 











This makes me wonder what @Carillo can do with 4300c14 1t....


----------



## raad11

Ok so the timings I got stable (tm5 anta777 3 cycles passed):

3900 14-15-15-28 (Auto/Auto for VCCSA and VDDQ TX, which was 1.35/1.35) - 2 x single rank
4000 14-16-16-29 (1.39/1.39) - 2 x single rank
4100 15-15-15-28 (1.43/1.43) - 2 x single rank

4000 14-16-16-29 (1.43/1.43) - 2 x dual rank (aida64 bandwidth actually 1GB/s slower than 2xSR in same configuration, latency slightly worse as well)

Can't get 4100 to pass for DR yet

All memory is b-die, at CR 2T, and SR and DR versions of same G.Skill Ripjaws 4400CL17 kit. Tertiaries same for all runs.

Not sure how high is safe for the voltages

EDIT: Mobo is ROG Strix Z690-A D4, 0707 BIOS, w/12900K

EDIT #2:

Can't get 4100 2xDR to boot at CL15 at all. Tried up to 1.46/1.46 for voltages.

Was able to dial 2xDR 4000 14-16-16-29 voltage down to 1.41/1.41 and pass 3 cycles of tm5 w/anta777


----------



## raad11

How are MSI boards for overclocking CPU? Same kind of options as Asus? Temp threshold, VR limit, etc? Do they have any of the stuff from Maximus boards like core voltage suspension?


----------



## bscool

@raad11 

It would be nice if you mention MB, bios version, cpu(hardware spec) etc so people know what hardware you are talking about instead of having to search your old posts to find out what you are using.

Making a post without the hardware used is kind of useless and then people search your old posts for what you "might" be currently using.


----------



## bscool

0451 said:


> I have a 12700K so I can’t comment on binning of 12900K. My Asus Tuf DDR4 is impressive but can’t match MSI results.
> 
> Unfortunately my local neighborhood Microcenter is loaded with Asus motherboards but not MSI.


From what I have seen you have one the better CPU and DR mem OCs on a z690 DDR4 MB. The MSI that I have seen faster than your were SR, unless I missed something?

I am curious though for you to get an MSI and see what you think. I have a Strix A on order but might just get a MSI to compare also.


----------



## Madness11

Eh i dont understand this cpu ... Put all P cores 5.1 and put 1,95v . Crush after runing bench .. Guys help )


----------



## Revv23

raad11 said:


> How are MSI boards for overclocking CPU? Same kind of options as Asus? Temp threshold, VR limit, etc? Do they have any of the stuff from Maximus boards like core voltage suspension?


Bios looks easier than Asus imo. 

Debauer just did a 12 series oc guide on YouTube and used an msi board in his example.


I'm looking at msi to replace my ASRock that can't to ddr4 3000mt but I don't know which one to grab. Sounds like even the cheapest are doing great.


----------



## raad11

raad11 said:


> Ok so the timings I got stable (tm5 anta777 3 cycles passed):
> 
> 3900 14-15-15-28 (Auto/Auto for VCCSA and VDDQ TX, which was 1.35/1.35) - 2 x single rank
> 4000 14-16-16-29 (1.39/1.39) - 2 x single rank
> 4100 15-15-15-28 (1.43/1.43) - 2 x single rank
> 
> 4000 14-16-16-29 (1.43/1.43) - 2 x dual rank (aida64 bandwidth actually 1GB/s slower than 2xSR in same configuration, latency slightly worse as well)
> 
> Can't get 4100 to pass for DR yet
> 
> All memory is b-die, at CR 2T, and SR and DR versions of same G.Skill Ripjaws 4400CL17 kit. Tertiaries same for all runs.
> 
> Not sure how high is safe for the voltages
> 
> EDIT: Mobo is ROG Strix Z690-A D4, 0707 BIOS, w/12900K
> 
> EDIT #2:
> 
> Can't get 4100 2xDR to boot at CL15 at all. Tried up to 1.46/1.46 for voltages.
> 
> Was able to dial 2xDR 4000 14-16-16-29 voltage down to 1.41/1.41 and pass 3 cycles of tm5 w/anta777


2x8GB single rank









2x16GB dual rank









latency was usually mid-45ns range on several runs, got a fast one that time

Game performance (Overwatch 1080p Ultra) was 1-2% less in some spots (during dips or steep slopes) compared to same timings with 2 single rank, so not too bad of a hit. It was closer to 3900 14-15-15-28 2x8GB single rank's performance. The best results I had were with 4100 15-15-15-28 2x8GB single rank which was about 1% faster than 4000 14-16-16-29 2x8GB single rank during the dips in framerate. So, overall about a 2 to 2.5% drop from going from best SR config to dual rank.


----------



## JoeRambo

raad11 said:


> So, overall about a 2 to 2.5% drop from going from best SR config to dual rank.


Can you show the MSI Dragon screen with latencies? I don't feel like there is enough difference in primaries to make such big difference for between DR/SR. Maybe some _DR tertiarry is high?


----------



## bscool

@raad11 is that with e cores disabled?


----------



## Relent

Guys any new bios from asus?

0707 has been hell for me, I get random shutdowns and memory oc not stable (0801 works better for me but I read here that has voltage problems)

Asus Strixz690-A


----------



## raad11

JoeRambo said:


> Can you show the MSI Dragon screen with latencies? I don't feel like there is enough difference in primaries to make such big difference for between DR/SR. Maybe some _DR tertiarry is high?











I keyed all those timings in manually so nothing except RTL should have changed. On 2xSR, it just showed 69 for one of the fields.


bscool said:


> @raad11 is that with e cores disabled?


E-cores were enabled. The AI Optimizer was using 54/51 and 41 for e-cores.

Though, weird thing, now 3DMark crashes hard with the AI Optimizer's values whereas it didn't before with the single rank sticks. It is the CPU oc that's making it crash (clock watchdog timeout one time, total freeze another) since removing it allows it to run fine, but I was able to run 3DMark without a problem before with same AI Optimized CPU oc and mem oc. So, maybe a new BIOS will fix that and meantime I have to run stock or manually OC the CPU.


----------



## yoyo711

Hi all

Just ordered an I9 12900k and looking to buy a motherboard for I9 12900k what is the best MB for under $340, Asus, or gigabit?

what about this?

gigabyte z690 aorus pro

Please let me know

Thank you very much!!


----------



## bscool

@raad11 I dont have a board yet. I have a 12900kf.

But from what I have seen others post with e cores enables you cant run cache that high. From your #s it is looking good. I have a MSI z690 and Asus Z690 on order and I think I am going to cancel the MSI. I have had both MSI and Asus the last few gens and prefer Asus.


----------



## yoyo711

bscool said:


> @raad11 I dont have a board yet. I have a 12900kf.
> 
> But from what I have seen others post with e cores enables you cant run cache that high. From your #s it is looking good. I have a MSI z690 and Asus Z690 on order and I think I am going to cancel the MSI. I have had both MSI and Asus the last few gens and prefer Asus.



Thanks for reply what is different for 12900kf vs 12900k?
and what kind Asus Z690 bord you are going to get?

Thanks


----------



## bscool

yoyo711 said:


> Thanks for reply what is different for 12900kf vs 12900k?
> and what kind Asus Z690 bord you are going to get?
> 
> Thanks


F just means no integrated graphics.

I am going with Strix A D4

Both the MSI A and Srtix are on Amazon so easy return if there are any problems. Says a week or two for the Strix but it said the same for the 12900kf and I was going to cancel it and here it showed up a week early.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Guys, I have access to 10x 12900K and 10x Dom 5200. Best way to bin?


----------



## destylock

ZealotKi11er said:


> Guys, I have access to 10x 12900K and 10x Dom 5200. Best way to bin?


Where did you get those Dom modules in Canada ? Still trying to find some lol

Get an Asus Board and bin using SP values. For ram its alot longer to tweak/bin ram.


----------



## raad11

raad11 said:


> Though, weird thing, now 3DMark crashes hard with the AI Optimizer's values whereas it didn't before with the single rank sticks. It is the CPU oc that's making it crash (clock watchdog timeout one time, total freeze another) since removing it allows it to run fine, but I was able to run 3DMark without a problem before with same AI Optimized CPU oc and mem oc. So, maybe a new BIOS will fix that and meantime I have to run stock or manually OC the CPU.


It's basically started crashing under any kind of OC, even though before it even completed memory tests and benchmarks. I tried adding some adaptive voltage offset, upping vccsa/vddq, changing llc, nothing. I turned it back to llc 3, everything on auto with AI Optimizer, what I had it on while benching the memory and game after having tested the memory on stock settings. And it BSOD anyway.

So I stepped away, apparently it rebooted, and now went into Windows and is running with no problems, even running 3DMark CPU Profile test with no crashes.

WEIRD.

Up until this point I had no issues with 0707. No issues at all with the single rank sticks in there (overclocked without problems). No problems at stock (asus mc disabled) with DR sticks. Problems began when oc-ing with DR sticks in there. And now problem went away on its own for time being.

Got #9 and #10 on Leaderboard for 1 thread and 2 thread though! With the oc-ed 2x16GB RAM.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> current bench result with my SP93 12900K.
> I got 1% GPU Bound???
> Anyway, I am gonna get higher SP 12900K tomorrow and see whether I can go higher.
> 
> View attachment 2532978


Do you mind sharing your settings? My score is low for 5.5 core 4133c14 mem. I have HT off, e-cores disabled, and RE-Bar ON.


----------



## raad11

bscool said:


> @raad11 I dont have a board yet. I have a 12900kf.
> 
> But from what I have seen others post with e cores enables you cant run cache that high. From your #s it is looking good. I have a MSI z690 and Asus Z690 on order and I think I am going to cancel the MSI. I have had both MSI and Asus the last few gens and prefer Asus.


Sorry I was wrong, it's running 40/38 on e-cores when on AI overclock (40 highest, 38 on all 8 under most load presumably). Cache looks like 4.7 which is the default for P-Cores. It drops to 3.6 most of the time though I see in hwinfo, so it hasn't oc-ed the cache.


----------



## Carillo

So, here is the SOTTR 4300 cl14 1T results


----------



## Relent

Carillo said:


> So, here is the SOTTR 4300 cl14 1T results
> 
> View attachment 2533082


Very nice..

VCCSA and VDDQ?


----------



## acoustic

Whoever grabbed the only Z690 APEX in St. David's Microcenter ..

..|.,

lol


----------



## raad11

raad11 said:


> It's basically started crashing under any kind of OC, even though before it even completed memory tests and benchmarks. I tried adding some adaptive voltage offset, upping vccsa/vddq, changing llc, nothing. I turned it back to llc 3, everything on auto with AI Optimizer, what I had it on while benching the memory and game after having tested the memory on stock settings. And it BSOD anyway.
> 
> So I stepped away, apparently it rebooted, and now went into Windows and is running with no problems, even running 3DMark CPU Profile test with no crashes.
> 
> WEIRD.
> 
> Up until this point I had no issues with 0707. No issues at all with the single rank sticks in there (overclocked without problems). No problems at stock (asus mc disabled) with DR sticks. Problems began when oc-ing with DR sticks in there. And now problem went away on its own for time being.
> 
> Got #9 and #10 on Leaderboard for 1 thread and 2 thread though! With the oc-ed 2x16GB RAM.


So the problem eventually came back, happened even at lower RAM speed (DDR4-3200). So it seemingly has nothing to do with the RAM except that it started when I installed dual rank memory.

It seems to be the TVB. I tried setting everything, including LLC and AC_LL/DC_LL all to Auto, and it managed to get through a Timespy run but hard froze right after it finished. AI Optimizer w/TVB just seems to have broke when I installed dual rank memory.

So AI Optimizer would OC to 54/51 heavy/light then TVB on Auto (with Voltage Optimizations and VMaxStress both Enabled) would add a +1 to boost it to 5.5 on light loads.

With TVB disabled, it boosts to 54/51 and no crashes so far, did multiple 3DMark tests.

Weird.

Tonight I'll try putting the single rank memory back in and see if TVB starts functioning again.

Can anyone else with an Asus ROG Strix Z690-A D4 on bios 0707 (or any, I suppose) with dual rank memory (I have 2x16GB) confirm if TVB is working for them, both with manual OC and AI Optimizer?


----------



## Falkentyne

raad11 said:


> So the problem eventually came back, happened even at lower RAM speed (DDR4-3200). So it seemingly has nothing to do with the RAM except that it started when I installed dual rank memory.
> 
> It seems to be the TVB. I tried setting everything, including LLC and AC_LL/DC_LL all to Auto, and it managed to get through a Timespy run but hard froze right after it finished. AI Optimizer w/TVB just seems to have broke when I installed dual rank memory.
> 
> So AI Optimizer would OC to 54/51 heavy/light then TVB on Auto (with Voltage Optimizations and VMaxStress both Enabled) would add a +1 to boost it to 5.5 on light loads.
> 
> With TVB disabled, it boosts to 54/51 and no crashes so far, did multiple 3DMark tests.
> 
> Weird.
> 
> Tonight I'll try putting the single rank memory back in and see if TVB starts functioning again.
> 
> Can anyone else with an Asus ROG Strix Z690-A D4 with dual rank memory (I have 2x16GB) confirm if TVB is working for them, both with manual OC and AI Optimizer?


@shamino1978 is this similar to the bug that was reported by @RobertoSampaio ?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

What is the best board for ddr4 now? Thanks.


----------



## Revv23

Thanh Nguyen said:


> What is the best board for ddr4 now? Thanks.


It seems like just about any MSI board not only competes with but beats even the most expensive boards out there from other brands. Asus is in second. 

Gigabyte is not good, and ASROCK is total trash

I suspect as time goes on bios updates will level the playing field.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Revv23 said:


> It seems like just about any MSI board not only competes with but beats even the most expensive boards out there from other brands. Asus is in second.
> 
> Gigabyte is not good, and ASROCK is total trash
> 
> I suspect as time goes on bios updates will level the playing field.


How about cpu block? Does it fit the optimus sig block?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Revv23 said:


> It seems like just about any MSI board not only competes with but beats even the most expensive boards out there from other brands. Asus is in second.
> 
> Gigabyte is not good, and ASROCK is total trash
> 
> I suspect as time goes on bios updates will level the playing field.


There is not enough data to say whether Asus or MSI is better, especially with dual rank sticks. I’ll be comparing both once I get an MSI board.



Thanh Nguyen said:


> How about cpu block? Does it fit the optimus sig block?


I’m currently using my old EK Supremacy EVO block with the EK LGA 1700 backplate.

My Optimus sig fits my Tuf D4, but not with my preferred installation method, which is using EK mounting hardware. It should work fine with Optimus hardware


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Most 12900k can do what with ddr4? 4000 cl13 1t?


----------



## SoldierRBT

Wonder what you guys can post on each dimm Z690 APEX. First slot posts 6666MHz, 2nd slot 7200MHz. That's 500MHz difference. I used Raw MHz profile 1.40 IO/SA 1.45v VDD/VDDQ/VDDQ TX


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Do higher SP Alder Lake CPUs sustain higher P-core overclocks?

Cooling is all that seems to matter.


----------



## sugi0lover

0451 said:


> Do you mind sharing your settings? My score is low for 5.5 core 4133c14 mem. I have HT off, e-cores disabled, and RE-Bar ON.


I have gpu bound (GPU fps so low), so I am going to re-run this weekend with the new 12900K.
Anyway, my settings for that bench.
P cores 5.5Ghz, E Cores 4.5Ghz, Cache 4.6Ghz, HT off, e-cores enabled, RE-Bar On, Water temp 23~27C


----------



## Nizzen

SoldierRBT said:


> Wonder what you guys can post on each dimm Z690 APEX. First slot posts 6666MHz, 2nd slot 7200MHz. That's 500MHz difference. I used Raw MHz profile 1.40 IO/SA 1.45v VDD/VDDQ/VDDQ TX


We are waiting for hynix/samsung d5....
Rocking trash Dominators D5 😅


----------



## Revv23

Thanh Nguyen said:


> How about cpu block? Does it fit the optimus sig block?


NM


----------



## Dingdong630

Omg yes i got one!


----------



## Revv23

0451 said:


> There is not enough data to say whether Asus or MSI is better, especially with dual rank sticks. I’ll be comparing both once I get an MSI board.
> 
> 
> I’m currently using my old EK Supremacy EVO block with the EK LGA 1700 backplate.
> 
> My Optimus sig fits my Tuf D4, but not with my preferred installation method, which is using EK mounting hardware. It should work fine with Optimus hardware


I look forward to hearing your results - I think youll be the 1st one with both ddr4 boards. 

I was just basing from what ive seen in this thread.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Dingdong630 said:


> View attachment 2533101
> Omg yes i got one!


link?


----------



## Dingdong630

SoldierRBT said:


> link?


Sold out 
TEAMGROUP T-Force Delta RGB DDR5 32GB Kit (2x16GB) 6400MHz (PC5-51200) CL40 Desktop Memory Module Ram (Black) for Z690 - FF3D532G6400HC40BDC01 TEAMGROUP T-Force Delta RGB DDR5 32GB Kit (2x16GB) 6400MHz (PC5-51200) CL40 Desktop Memory Module Ram (Black) for Z690 - FF3D532G6400HC40BDC01 at Amazon.com


----------



## HiLuckyB

I've not seen any DDR5 on Amazon 🤔
I'm still trying to find some that's not $900+ on eBay..


----------



## RobertoSampaio

My new Bios setting:

P-57x3/55x5/53x8
E-42x4/41x6/40x8

Manual 2 Bins OCTVB +10ºC


----------



## geriatricpollywog

RobertoSampaio said:


> My new Bios setting:
> 
> P-57x3/55x5/53x8
> E-42x4/41x6/40x8
> 
> Manual 2 Bins OCTVB +10ºC
> 
> View attachment 2533111


Can OCTVB be set this high on a Tuf DDR4 board with a 12700K if the silicon is good enough?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

0451 said:


> Can OCTVB be set this high on a Tuf DDR4 board with a 12700K if the silicon is good enough?


You need to try,
But I think so....


----------



## Relent

RobertoSampaio said:


> My new Bios setting:
> 
> P-57x3/55x5/53x8
> E-42x4/41x6/40x8
> 
> Manual 2 Bins OCTVB +10ºC
> 
> View attachment 2533111


Nice, how do you cool it?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Matzito said:


> Nice, how do you cool it?


You can Overclock the TVB with a 280mm AIO...
You will need a huge cooler for full load, not for light loads...
My Full load is P51x/E40x/R36 @1,15v - 200W


----------



## dante`afk

testing the water with babysteps with @RobertoSampaio 's guide


----------



## mattskiiau

Hey sorta new making my way through these posts.

Do we need to set DC_LL and AC_LL if using fixed voltage all core? Or that just for the per core usage method?

Is there a quick and dirty all core OC guide floating around by chance? Looking for a place to start.


----------



## cstkl1

mattskiiau said:


> Hey sorta new making my way through these posts.
> 
> Do we need to set DC_LL and AC_LL if using fixed voltage all core? Or that just for the per core usage method?
> 
> Is there a quick and dirty all core OC guide floating around by chance? Looking for a place to start.


the stock Loadline is fine

these ac/dc LL octvb is just to push the envelope for gaming. but take note this not a superstable or guarantee of anything. Just like testing ram you have to test its viability for your use case. 

just like ram oc always know your cpu first ( v/f, vid etc etc)


----------



## dante`afk

is it somehow possible to have allcore like 52 or 53 instead of 51? how?


----------



## Relent

Is anyone getting BSODS on Battlefield 2042? all other games run fine


----------



## raad11

If you set AI Tuner or whatever that first option in the Asus BIOS is to "Manual" and then leave it at 100.0000 for BCLK, it may be running it at 99.8. Just leave it on Auto in that case and it will run at proper 100 so all your clocks aren't down by ~12 or so.


----------



## raad11

Matzito said:


> Is anyone getting BSODS on Battlefield 2042? all other games run fine


Are you running an overclock? Is TVB enabled?


----------



## cstkl1

raad11 said:


> Are you running an overclock? Is TVB enabled?


try testing cb r15

r15 more stressfull and requires higher vcore for adl than r23. no idea y 

@sugi0lover .. my prediction correct lol.


----------



## Exilon

I swapped from an Aorus Elite to ASUS Strix D4 and wow, the UEFI has so many more features.

I assume the ACDC to LLC synchronization is working, so I just need to set DC_LL to get VID to match the die sense voltage with LLC set to Auto?


----------



## Falkentyne

cstkl1 said:


> try testing cb r15
> 
> r15 more stressfull and requires higher vcore for adl than r23. no idea y
> 
> @sugi0lover .. my prediction correct lol.


"Certain" SSE2 instructions seem to require more vcore than AVX (unless the AVX instructions run hotter when you are already at stability limits from high temps).
R15, R20 and R23 seem to have the same heat output and R15 does not use AVX (R20 uses AVX1, unsure if R23 uses AVX1 or AVX2).
Just because a program uses AVX does not mean it's going to make your overclocked CPU run at 100C (not everything is small FFT AVX prime95 (adl compatible version 30.7 build 9) 

On P-cores only (E-cores disabled) the vmin for passing Cinebench R15= Vmin for "repeatedly" passing Minecraft (launcher loading screen->main menu) at 5 second 100% burst load without a random BSOD when loading MC. (note that both do not use AVX).

However prime95 small FFT AVX is far more stressful than AVX disabled, so the type of instruction or how it fits in the cache (or accesses main memory, which uses a lot less heat/current) also matters.


----------



## mattskiiau

Any issues running 12900k at LLC5/6 on Asus 24/7? Or recommended not passing LLC4?
Running stable: 5.1ghz all core, 1.3v in BIOS, LLC5, drops to 1.25v~


----------



## Falkentyne

mattskiiau said:


> Any issues running 12900k at LLC5/6 on Asus 24/7? Or recommended not passing LLC4?
> Running stable: 5.1ghz all core, 1.3v in BIOS, LLC5, drops to 1.25v~


These boards have overbuilt VRM's so you might as well just test it out yourself--you'll get faster results than asking others, because such tests take hours to do reliably.
You will need to find your absolute minimum "vmin die sense vcore" that you need to pass a certain stress test without crashing or BSOD'ing, at a certain LLC (like LLC4), but have the voltage so borderline that just 18mv less vcore (to be reasonable; the sensor is 9mv resolution) will result in a crash without you having to wait hours for it to happen randomly.
Perhaps you may get the best results testing prime95 30.7 build 9 (30.7 is required for ADL compatibility).

Finding such a point is extremely time consuming, and you can't expect others to do this work for you.
If you have a volticon board you can use that device to check the transients. Or you can use vlatch if your board supports that (remember to reset it with the onboard jumper or use hwinfo to reset it if EC support is enabled--but do keep in mind that there are latency and hitching issues to polling the EC, so using the V-latch OLED readout on an OLED board (Maximus Extreme) is the best option "if possible".

Anyway once you find your absolute vmin at LLC3 (or 4), then you need to reduce vcore and increase LLC (e.g. to 6) and see if your vmin has a penalty from the stronger LLC and rougher transient voltage dips.

On CML and CFL, using a very aggressive LLC was a way to help reduce or avoid the "parity error" issue on those chips, (still very unknown why, but since CPU Core and CPU Cache voltages are linked together, LLC may affect the voltages supplying the caches (L1? L2? L3 unless L3 is linked to VCCIO on those chips) differently than it affects the core itself). However this increases the chances of L0 errors from general instability from the worse transients.

I have no idea whatsoever what happens on ADL. You're on your own here.


----------



## Exilon

Exilon said:


> I swapped from an Aorus Elite to ASUS Strix D4 and wow, the UEFI has so many more features.
> 
> I assume the ACDC to LLC synchronization is working, so I just need to set DC_LL to get VID to match the die sense voltage with LLC set to Auto?


Messed around with the ASUS board a bit and got it stable on
AC_LL 0.6 (manual), DC_LL 1.09 (Auto from LLC3)
with 52x on favored cores, 51x all-core TVB under 60C, and 50x all-core TVB under 70C

Aorus Elite was maxed out on 3466CL15 but the Strix D4 can do 3733CL15 on four sticks of mediocre B-die at 1.45v DRAM and 1.45v VDDQ with 1.25v SA.

Additionally, E-core cluster L2 overvolt is working on this board. With CPU L2 set to 1.25V, I am able to hit 4.3GHz ring where 4.2GHz was the limit before.

Edit: Currently at 4.4GHz ring with E-cores enabled with 1.3V E-core L2 voltage and this wasn't even bootable on the Aorus Elite.


----------



## Nizzen

Matzito said:


> Is anyone getting BSODS on Battlefield 2042? all other games run fine


Level 48 and no bsod with 12900k and 5400mhz ddr5. Played sinced day 1


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Level 48 and no bsod with 12900k and 5400mhz ddr5. Played sinced day 1


because these guys all doing shorcuts octvb bro

theres alot of things on the cpu they havent really tested.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Interpolation, Specific Adaptive Voltage and Vcore Prediction tool update to V1.02

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""










CPU Voltage Tool


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## raad11

Exilon said:


> Messed around with the ASUS board a bit and got it stable on
> AC_LL 0.6 (manual), DC_LL 1.09 (Auto from LLC3)
> with 52x on favored cores, 51x all-core TVB under 60C, and 50x all-core TVB under 70C
> 
> Aorus Elite was maxed out on 3466CL15 but the Strix D4 can do 3733CL15 on four sticks of mediocre B-die at 1.45v DRAM and 1.45v VDDQ with 1.25v SA.
> 
> Additionally, E-core cluster L2 overvolt is working on this board. With CPU L2 set to 1.25V, I am able to hit 4.3GHz ring where 4.2GHz was the limit before.
> 
> Edit: Currently at 4.4GHz ring with E-cores enabled with 1.3V E-core L2 voltage and this wasn't even bootable on the Aorus Elite.


How high can you go with VDDQ or do you feel is safe to go?


----------



## jayfkay

Is it safe to say that when you game on 4K, the increase in performance is miniscule over RKL or even CML, even with overclocked ddr5?
Like 3-6% for avg fps and maybe 5-10% lows in a best case scenario?

OC.net removed the function where it showed posted thread media on the right at all times, sadly, otherwise I could quickly check the posted benchmarks for myself.


----------



## raad11

jayfkay said:


> Is it safe to say that when you game on 4K, the increase in performance is miniscule over RKL or even CML, even with overclocked ddr5?
> Like 3-6% for avg fps and maybe 5-10% lows in a best case scenario?
> 
> OC.net removed the function where it showed posted thread media on the right at all times, sadly, otherwise I could quickly check the posted benchmarks for myself.


CML is faster than RKL in gaming. But yeah, at 4k it's GPU bound, so I doubt there will be much if any difference if there's no other applications open.


----------



## sugi0lover

new 12900K in my hand
Edit : no sale


----------



## ZealotKi11er

destylock said:


> Where did you get those Dom modules in Canada ? Still trying to find some lol
> 
> Get an Asus Board and bin using SP values. For ram its alot longer to tweak/bin ram.


CC. SP higher is better?


----------



## Majek

Does anyone else get 0C temperature reading on some cores, on their 12900k in HWInfo? 

I remember this having been an issue with 11900k and I can see that this is also happening for my 12900k.


----------



## destylock

ZealotKi11er said:


> CC. SP higher is better?


Damn you must have some connections, when I went there they told me that they only sell them as bundles and yes higher SP = higher OC potential


----------



## Forsaken1

Majek said:


> Does anyone else get 0C temperature reading on some cores, on their 12900k in HWInfo?
> 
> I remember this having been an issue with 11900k and I can see that this is also happening for my 12900k.



Trying to figure out if it’s random trigger or other.Temp reports correctly at times.


----------



## Majek

Forsaken1 said:


> Trying to figure out if it’s random trigger or other.Temp reports correctly at times.


OK, thanks! So it's not only me...


----------



## Relent

raad11 said:


> Are you running an overclock? Is TVB enabled?


Yes, following @RobertoSampaio settings (we have similar sp and good bad cores)

Cinebench, halo, vanguard, warzone all good 
Except BF 2024


----------



## destylock

BF2042 is pegging the CPU. Seems like being stable in BF2042 means stability lol.


----------



## acoustic

Grabbed a 12700K and an ASUS TUF Z690. Let's see how this goes.. it cost me less than a new 10900K and MSI z490 ACE to replace my current setup that is plagued with issues.

I'm going to RMA my board and chip and sell the replacements. Let's see how Gear1 handles


----------



## Nizzen

destylock said:


> BF2042 is pegging the CPU. Seems like being stable in BF2042 means stability lol.


BF 2042 is using like 100% on 8 cores on 12900k ! Stressing the whole system at once. That's why a game can trigger errors sometimes, but not a ram test and cpu test alone. Even Battlefield V multiplayer in 1 hour is a very good stresstest


----------



## WebsterRKL

sugi0lover said:


> new 12900K in my hand
> Edit : no sale
> 
> View attachment 2533401
> 
> 
> View attachment 2533402


It's a 96th percentile, top 4% Intel Processor, only 4 out of 100 - Golden Wonka Ticket - Holy Moly!


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Matzito said:


> Yes, following @RobertoSampaio settings (we have similar sp and good bad cores)
> 
> Cinebench, halo, vanguard, warzone all good
> Except BF 2024


Like I always say... 
The best test is to use the PC.... 

I don't care about heavy stress test that test my cooler system... LOL.

It's easy to be stable at a full load...
The problem is the "idle to load to idle" cycle.... 

If you use a fixed voltage and sync all cores all become easy... 
The CPU will not try to go to high frequencies after a heavy load an been hot... 

This is the problem... CPU hot and free of load to go to high frequencies.... 

This situation will say if your oc is stable....


----------



## sugi0lover

tested the new 12900K SP103 and it's crazy.
For CineR23,
- water temp 18~19C / max CPU package temp 73C / max Vcore Power 266W
○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / P Cores 5.5Ghz / E Cores 4.3Ghz / Cache 4.5Ghz
○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 6400Mhz-32-37-37-26-290-1T (Gear 2)
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0801)
○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.290v(llc7) / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.400v / MC 1.23125v / SA Auto
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.










You can check the bios setup at the latter part.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> tested the new 12900K SP103 and it's crazy.
> For CineR23,
> - water temp 18~19C / max CPU package temp 73C / max Vcore Power 266W
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / P Cores 5.5Ghz / E Cores 4.3Ghz / Cache 4.5Ghz
> ○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 6400Mhz-32-37-37-26-290-1T (Gear 2)
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0801)
> ○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.290v(llc7) / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.400v / MC 1.23125v / SA Auto
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.
> 
> View attachment 2533415
> 
> 
> You can check the bios setup at the latter part.


Can you run 3DMark CPU profile test with the SP103 and see where it maxes out?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

sugi0lover said:


> tested the new 12900K SP103 and it's crazy.
> For CineR23,
> - water temp 18~19C / max CPU package temp 73C / max Vcore Power 266W
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / P Cores 5.5Ghz / E Cores 4.3Ghz / Cache 4.5Ghz
> ○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 6400Mhz-32-37-37-26-290-1T (Gear 2)
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0801)
> ○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.290v(llc7) / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.400v / MC 1.23125v / SA Auto
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.
> 
> View attachment 2533415
> 
> 
> You can check the bios setup at the latter part.


I would push it to 61x4 - 59x6 - 57x8 (2Boost)


----------



## geriatricpollywog

How long do you guys think it will be before DDR5 catches up to DDR4 in gaming?


----------



## Exilon

Anyone with a Strix D4 seeing 99.75 base clock? It's fluctuating between 99.75 or 99.76 so the reading seems valid but I have base clock set to 100 in the bios.


----------



## cstkl1

0451 said:


> How long do you guys think it will be before DDR5 catches up to DDR4 in gaming?


it already has. dont refer to noobs. 

so far it took SR 4300c14 1T to beat 6400 1T. it was the 1T in gear 1 that made the diff for ddr4.

6600-6666 only @safedisk atm can test this

need better better bins.


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> tested the new 12900K SP103 and it's crazy.
> For CineR23,
> - water temp 18~19C / max CPU package temp 73C / max Vcore Power 266W
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / P Cores 5.5Ghz / E Cores 4.3Ghz / Cache 4.5Ghz
> ○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 6400Mhz-32-37-37-26-290-1T (Gear 2)
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0801)
> ○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.290v(llc7) / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.400v / MC 1.23125v / SA Auto
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.
> 
> View attachment 2533415
> 
> 
> You can check the bios setup at the latter part.


bios 0802 has better tuning for hynix. try it.
now i can boot easy [email protected]


----------



## SoldierRBT

Got a 12900KF today X139M096 SP91 (SP100 P-cores/SP74 E-cores). R23 vmin 1.146v 5.2/4.2GHz - 4GHz ecores 6000C32 Temp: 71C 245W.
Decent chip. All I need now is Hynix kit


----------



## RobertoSampaio

sugi0lover said:


> new 12900K in my hand
> Edit : no sale
> 
> View attachment 2533401
> 
> 
> View attachment 2533402


@sugi0lover


Please, take a pic of the BIOS VF curve page...I'll simulate some voltages....
Your CPU has 3 best cores !!!!  Amazing...!


----------



## RobertoSampaio

@sugi0lover

This is a simulation of my system running...
I'd like to simulate yours...


----------



## SuperMumrik

cstkl1 said:


> it already has


While that might be true, you'll definitely need some unobtainable Hynix or Samsung ic's. Micron chips don't hold a candle to b-dies in gaming scenarios


----------



## raad11

0451 said:


> How long do you guys think it will be before DDR5 catches up to DDR4 in gaming?


It can now. It's just a matter of expense and how popular it gets. I'm not going to DDR5 until they have 8000 XMP kits, probably AM5 and Meteor Lake or whatever next Intel platform is. DDR4, for the money, gives great bang for the buck at the moment.


----------



## raad11

Exilon said:


> Anyone with a Strix D4 seeing 99.75 base clock? It's fluctuating between 99.75 or 99.76 so the reading seems valid but I have base clock set to 100 in the bios.


Turn 'Ai Tuner' to 'Auto'. The first option in the AI Tweaker BIOS menus. See if that fixes it.


----------



## raad11

Matzito said:


> Yes, following @RobertoSampaio settings (we have similar sp and good bad cores)
> 
> Cinebench, halo, vanguard, warzone all good
> Except BF 2024


Try turning off thermal velocity boost and check again. If still unstable, try turning off OC and then see. Play with options until it runs so you can see where the problem is.


----------



## WebsterRKL

And now we pause Alder Lake for a moment - for something truly beautiful. 

Every Highly-Overclocked "typewriter build" deserves a premium keyboard. 

Just arrived today - from heaven.  $400USD with overnight.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

destylock said:


> Damn you must have some connections, when I went there they told me that they only sell them as bundles and yes higher SP = higher OC potential


Yes it was bundle, hero/12900k/ddr5/aio


----------



## sugi0lover

RobertoSampaio said:


> @sugi0lover
> 
> 
> Please, take a pic of the BIOS VF curve page...I'll simulate some voltages....
> Your CPU has 3 best cores !!!!  Amazing...!


Here it is!


----------



## Forsaken1

WebsterRKL said:


> And now we pause Alder Lake for a moment - for something truly beautiful.
> 
> Every Highly-Overclocked "typewriter build" deserves a premium keyboard.
> 
> Just arrived today - from heaven.  $400USD with overnight.
> 
> View attachment 2533436
> 
> View attachment 2533437
> View attachment 2533438
> View attachment 2533439
> View attachment 2533440
> View attachment 2533441


Happy ending included?Nice board.


----------



## Falkentyne

WebsterRKL said:


> And now we pause Alder Lake for a moment - for something truly beautiful.
> 
> Every Highly-Overclocked "typewriter build" deserves a premium keyboard.
> 
> Just arrived today - from heaven.  $400USD with overnight.
> 
> View attachment 2533436
> 
> View attachment 2533437
> View attachment 2533438
> View attachment 2533439
> View attachment 2533440
> View attachment 2533441


Please explain how that's worth $400??

That had better have old style IBM Model F (Not model M) Switches and back layer with NKRO or I'd never pay that much money for a keyboard.


----------



## Bilco

Has anyone gotten a 1700 adapter plate from ekwb and installed their velocity waterblock? I am unsure which instruction set to follow. The 20xx standoffs work so I assume I'm supposed to go with that set of instructions?

Figured it out, for those who are wondering its the 20XX instructions - use those stand offs with washers.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Falkentyne said:


> Please explain how that's worth $400??
> 
> That had better have old style IBM Model F (Not model M) Switches and back layer with NKRO or I'd never pay that much money for a keyboard.


It doesn’t even have numpad keys. Guess we have an aspiring author, not a programmer.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

sugi0lover said:


> Here it is!
> View attachment 2533449


P51x/E40x with Vcore=1.09v... LOL


----------



## Falkentyne

0451 said:


> It doesn’t even have numpad keys. Guess we have an aspiring author, not a programmer.


I'm not trying to be a cheap ass.
But if I'm going to spend $400 for a freaking KEYBOARD--regardless of how many rich customers with tons of money are out there--I want it to feel, sound and be just as hefty as an IBM Model F, with modern USB type C technology, NKRO and programmability. Topre is great and all but it's not an IBM Model F.

I know how hard it is to make proper buckling(?) spring stuff (I haven't really cared about keyboards for a few years now, my Ducky Shine 6 is still working fine), but seriously...at a price like that...might as well go big or go home.


----------



## mattskiiau

SoldierRBT said:


> Got a 12900KF today X139M096 SP91 (SP100 P-cores/SP74 E-cores). R23 vmin 1.146v 5.2/4.2GHz - 4GHz ecores 6000C32 Temp: 71C 245W.


Bruh.. I think I got real unlucky or I'm doing something wrong.
*SP:* 93 P / 73 E
*R32 vmin*: 1.28v 5.1/4.2Ghz / 4GHz E.
*Temps*: 230w / 78c / 192amps

Sad.


----------



## TheSteez

mattskiiau said:


> Bruh.. I think I got real unlucky or I'm doing something wrong.
> *SP:* 93 P / 73 E
> *R32 vmin*: 1.28v 5.1/4.2Ghz / 4GHz E.
> *Temps*: 230w / 78c / 192amps
> 
> Sad.


Are you on auto voltage?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I use this one... made in 2012... LOL


----------



## mattskiiau

TheSteez said:


> Are you on auto voltage?


No this is my lowest fixed voltage that won't BSOD me with extended runs on R23
BIOS voltage fixed at 1.35 with LLC5


----------



## TheSteez

mattskiiau said:


> No this is my lowest fixed voltage that won't BSOD me with extended runs on R23
> BIOS voltage fixed at 1.35 with LLC5


Is the ring on auto or do you have a manual ring multiplier set? What BSOD is it?


----------



## mattskiiau

TheSteez said:


> Is the ring on auto or do you have a manual ring multiplier set? What BSOD is it?


Set to 4.2Ghz, getting WHEA_UNCORRECTABLE_ERROR which I assume is core or uncore


----------



## Falkentyne

mattskiiau said:


> No this is my lowest fixed voltage that won't BSOD me with extended runs on R23
> BIOS voltage fixed at 1.35 with LLC5


Set the cache to x36 and E cores to x37 and test this again.
If the P-cores are unstable you usually only get a hard lockup or clock_watchdog_timeout (0x101)
0x124 (uncorrectable WHEA) or irql not less or equal or memory management/systems service exception BSOD's are usually something related to the E cores or Ring.


----------



## sugi0lover

ran 3DMark CPU Profile with 12900K (SP103) 
5.6Ghz requires only vcore 1.300v (llc7)
I will try 5.7Ghz later and let you know~

For CPU Profile,
- water temp 19C / max CPU package temp 65C / max Vcore Power 218W
○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / P Cores 5.6Ghz / E Cores 4.3Ghz / Cache 4.5Ghz
○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 6400Mhz-32-37-37-26-290-1T (Gear 2)
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0801)
○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.300v(llc7) / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.400v / MC 1.23125v / SA Auto
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.


----------



## mattskiiau

Falkentyne said:


> Set the cache to x36 and E cores to x37 and test this again.


Dropped Ring to 3.6 and E to 3.7.
Also dropped voltage on load from 1.28v to 1.25v to try.. Instant watchdog BSOD in R23
😭


----------



## Exilon

raad11 said:


> Turn 'Ai Tuner' to 'Auto'. The first option in the AI Tweaker BIOS menus. See if that fixes it.


Yeah that fixed it.


----------



## lolhaxz

0451 said:


> How long do you guys think it will be before DDR5 catches up to DDR4 in gaming?


IMO-

Kits that can exceed or meet "sekret" B-Die are literally SKU'd out already and there are a few people with them floating around giving some insight - just lacking availability at the moment. The micron kits (such as he has) are a real poor example of DDR5 short-term future performance... I suspect it will only be a matter of a month or two.

It sure won't require "DDR5-8000" to beat on DDR4 b-die.

To have the crappiest day-one IC's meeting the performance of the absolute best of the previous generation on day one (still requires good IMC, good board, near suicide tuning (for normies) on DDR4 side), I think it speaks for itself.

I mean here in NZ you can buy the micron kits readily (of which all of them are), there's 17+ in stock at one retailer right now as I type ... admittedly they're $300 USD (32GB) but so can be decent B-die.

If you already have an expensive DDR4 kit and know that your upgrading every generation or two, then sure, it might make sense to buy DDR4 - otherwise, I would definitely roll with DDR5, or even wait a month or two for GA (maybe not the US ) of decent DDR5 kits.


----------



## Falkentyne

mattskiiau said:


> Dropped Ring to 3.6 and E to 3.7.
> Also dropped voltage on load from 1.28v to 1.25v to try.. Instant watchdog BSOD in R23
> 😭


Wait.
Please tell me your exact bios settings.
You are using fixed voltage right?
tell me your fixed vcore bios set (manual), Loadline calibration level, sync all cores core ratio and cache ratio (if applicable)..

And what motherboard is this??
I went through all your posts. Nowhere anywhere have you even once told anyone what motherboard you have! You just said "I have an Asus".

Please.

I am assuming you used these settings. I also assume you have a MAXIMIUS board since you mentioned CPU current limit (amps).
I just used :

x51 sync all cores (P cores)
x37 sync all E cores
x36 Ring ratio.

1.350v bios set fixed vcore
LLC: Level 5.

I ran Cinebench R23...with these settings, load vcore was 1.208v-1.217v.
There's absolutely no way you would be at 1.250v-1.280v load. That's completely impossible.
This is a 12900k CPU right???  Something is wrong with the information you are supplying. Your results are not possible.

I even found an older post by you.

"
Any issues running 12900k at LLC5/6 on Asus 24/7? Or recommended not passing LLC4?
Running stable: 5.1ghz all core, 1.3v in BIOS, LLC5, drops to 1.25v~ "

1.30v bios -->1.25v load @ LLC5 isn't possible on R20/R23 etc..your load vmin is going to be lower than this...maybe in some game which doesn't stress the cores...

If you have a phone, mind posting your bios settings screenshot pictures? Just the tweaker menu with the core ratio settings, cache ratio settings, cpu vcore voltage mode and values, and Digi+ VRM with your LLC level you set.

Then when you get in windows, post a screenshot of your HWinfo sensors, with your CPU Core, Cache and ring ratios showing, as well as idle vcore and load vcore. Since I have c-states disabled, my load vcore is my vmin, since it won't drop to 0.750v, so here is an example.

idle and load frequency:










idle and load temps:










Idle and load vcore (cstates disabled).
(minimum vcore is the load vcore).


----------



## mattskiiau

Falkentyne said:


> Please tell me your exact bios settings.


Thanks for taking your time to write back to me, I really do appreciate it.
Here is a link with the screenshots you requested.


http://imgur.com/a/Q3VN27c


----------



## acoustic

My lack of knowledge with RKL mem OC is costing me big time right now. I have no idea what the hell I'm doing LOL


----------



## Falkentyne

mattskiiau said:


> Thanks for taking your time to write back to me, I really do appreciate it.
> Here is a link with the screenshots you requested.
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/Q3VN27c


Ok that explains a lot.
Definitely would have saved a lot of time if you had told us at the very beginning you had a ROG Strix and not a maximus.
The Maximus boards have die sense voltage (accurate to within 9mv of real measured voltage with hardware tools from the VRM).

Ok so your Strix does not have die sense voltage. You have socket sense so accurate voltage measurements are not possible without probing the board with hardware tools (or using something like Elmor's EVC2SX device, which is beyond my knowledge). In most cases, the vcore you see is going to be above the "True" vcore. Nothing you can do about this.

Your real voltage under load when you ran Cinebench R23 was probably about 1.208v. That's guessing from my own test.

Your chip SP is 86. I tested your exact settings at 5.1 ghz on a QS 12900k, and had no problems. However an SP86 CPU "should" be able to pass R23 at 1.350v bios set + LLC5 @ 5.1 ghz, I would "think". 

At 5.2 ghz, with your exact settings, I passed 4 runs, then BSOD on the 5th run. 1.208v load (die sense reading) is too low for 5.2 ghz
Mine needs about 1.225v-1.234v probably (for 5.2 ghz CB R23), which is probably about bios set-->1.375v set + LLC5.

First try 1 of 2 things.

First, try your 1.350v bios set + LLC5 like before, BUT
In digi+VRM, change "Power phase control to Extreme, Power Duty Control to Extreme, and VRM switching Frequency (spread spectrum)=disabled and switching frequency to 800 khz.
If 800 khz is not possible, set it to the highest value available.

Does this help??

Try 5.1 ghz again (1.350v bios set, LLC5) with the VRM settings I mentioned.

Do you BSOD?

If yes...

Try 1.375v bios set + LLC5 for your 5.1 ghz. This should pass, I hope.


----------



## sugi0lover

This is my friend's result with hynix 4800 cl40 ram.
Hynix is very good for oc.


----------



## cstkl1

SuperMumrik said:


> While that might be true, you'll definitely need some unobtainable Hynix or Samsung ic's. Micron chips don't hold a candle to b-dies in gaming scenarios


its rolling out soon. 

microns were garbage even in ddr4.


----------



## mattskiiau

Falkentyne said:


> Try 5.1 ghz again (1.350v bios set, LLC5) with the VRM settings I mentioned.


Thanks Falk. 
The settings above seemed to allow me to pass R23 without BSOD. Voltage on load is 1.29v (socket sense)
However, I've become thermal limited at that point, waiting for the new Corsair standoffs still.

I'm able to pass R23 with 5.0Ghz P, 4.0 Ring / 4.0 E @ 1.22v load on LLC5 with much less heat so I guess for now I'll push RAM and optimize around this.


----------



## Falkentyne

mattskiiau said:


> Thanks Falk.
> The settings above seemed to allow me to pass R23 without BSOD. Voltage on load is 1.29v (socket sense)
> However, I've become thermal limited at that point, waiting for the new Corsair standoffs still.
> 
> I'm able to pass R23 with 5.0Ghz P, 4.0 Ring / 4.0 E @ 1.22v load on LLC5 with much less heat so I guess for now I'll push RAM and optimize around this.


So it was the Power Phase, Power Duty and Switching Frequency settings that allowed you to pass R23 at the same voltage that was instant BSOD before?
Or did you also raise the vcore at the same time as you changed the VRM phase settings?


----------



## mattskiiau

Falkentyne said:


> So it was the Power Phase, Power Duty and Switching Frequency settings that allowed you to pass R23 at the same voltage that was instant BSOD before?
> Or did you also raise the vcore at the same time as you changed the VRM phase settings?


I believe it was the VRM settings that allowed me to pass. I left the BIOS voltage at 1.35 as suggested.


----------



## Falkentyne

mattskiiau said:


> I believe it was the VRM settings that allowed me to pass. I left the BIOS voltage at 1.35 as suggested.


I always max out the VRM Settings on every motherboard.
The only exception were the Z390 boards with IR 35201 voltage controllers, because for some reason, higher switching frequency was _MORE_ unstable than the lowest setting of 300 khz (this was discussed in both the Z390 Gigabyte thread and the Maximus 11 threads, as they both used the same controller).


----------



## cstkl1

new bios 1.65v no issue


----------



## Section31

cstkl1 said:


> its rolling out soon.
> 
> microns were garbage even in ddr4.


I am using micron till i get ahold of samsung gskill. Every generation always one item in short supply (exclude gpu), last time it was cpu shortage. This year its ram shortage lol.


----------



## Falkentyne

Plus the best boards to buy right now are all DDR5 boards.
Do any of the DDR4 boards have die sense (VR VOUT)?
And some don't even have a post code or safe boot button...or have one but not the other...


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Falkentyne said:


> Plus the best boards to buy right now are all DDR5 boards.
> Do any of the DDR4 boards have die sense (VR VOUT)?
> And some don't even have a post code or safe boot button...or have one but not the other...


I would gladly pay for a better DDR4 board. On the other hand, it’s kind of fun showing up $500+ boards with my sub $300 board. Die sense and safe boot would be VERY nice to have. 

As would a rear IO bios switch and a backplate. Then again even the Apex doesn’t have those 😂


----------



## WebsterRKL

When even typewriter build guys like me, believe Alder Lake is SO DAMN BORING!

IT's Boring! Beyond Belief! 

Alder Lake is so boring!


----------



## lolhaxz

It's almost like it's suddenly a revelation that a cheaper board will perform very similarly to a high end board?

I've had 2 low-end boards blow input filtering capacitors now across several (recent) generations - granted it was while running heavy loads for 1-2 hours at a time... People focus too much on the spec sheets of these VRM's and things, the real world is very different - doesn't matter if the VRM can deliver XXXX amps at XX theoretical watts if the components around it are not matched correctly.... it's endurance can also be affected by your power supply too for example; all of that to say... it's a whole package thing really.

I would argue to some extent, it's more about longevity and convenience, once (twice?) bitten twice shy.

If you are just playing games, not abusing it and stuff and not wanting that last 1% - buy the cheap board.


----------



## raad11

0451 said:


> I would gladly pay for a better DDR4 board. On the other hand, it’s kind of fun showing up $500+ boards with my sub $300 board. Die sense and safe boot would be VERY nice to have.
> 
> As would a rear IO bios switch and a backplate. Then again even the Apex doesn’t have those 😂


Overall I'm happy with the ROG Strix but yeah, this isn't their lowest end board and is kind of advertised for overclocking too. Die sense should become more of a standard. And those LED code things. I keep forgetting my previous boards (Maximus, Aorus Master) were all top end, because their price at the time (200-300) is now too low lol


----------



## mongoled

WebsterRKL said:


> When even typewriter build guys like me, believe Alder Lake is SO DAMN BORING!
> 
> IT's Boring! Beyond Belief!
> 
> Alder Lake is so boring!


I've bought solely AMD for my personal rigs the first being an AMD 1.4Ghz Thunderbird in the year 2000 and this is the first time I'm tempted in buying an Intel rig because of all performance and because of all the tweaking options that are available.

How can anyone who values these two attributes find Alderlake boring I dont know

🤷


----------



## marti69

cstkl1 said:


> new bios 1.65v no issue
> View attachment 2533469


where did you get bios 802? is not listed on asus website?


----------



## D-EJ915

marti69 said:


> where did you get bios 802? is not listed on asus website?


Shamino posted here









[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


Guys anyone knows of a utility that works in w7 and w8.1 to change core ratio and bclk ? turbov does not wotk for me the one posted at hwbot , for Asus Strix D4 wifi ? the octool in roberto thread. click intel|control




www.overclock.net


----------



## sugi0lover

While updating to 0802, I got SP96 bug, so I flashed to 0231 and lol~~


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> While updating to 0802, I got SP96 bug, so I flashed to 0231 and lol~~
> View attachment 2533483
> 
> 
> View attachment 2533484


ezflash or bios flashback

@shamino1978


----------



## mattxx88

Falkentyne said:


> Ok that explains a lot.
> Definitely would have saved a lot of time if you had told us at the very beginning you had a ROG Strix and not a maximus.
> The Maximus boards have die sense voltage (accurate to within 9mv of real measured voltage with hardware tools from the VRM).
> 
> Ok so your Strix does not have die sense voltage. You have socket sense so accurate voltage measurements are not possible without probing the board with hardware tools (or using something like Elmor's EVC2SX device, which is beyond my knowledge). In most cases, the vcore you see is going to be above the "True" vcore. Nothing you can do about this.
> 
> Your real voltage under load when you ran Cinebench R23 was probably about 1.208v. That's guessing from my own test.
> 
> Your chip SP is 86. I tested your exact settings at 5.1 ghz on a QS 12900k, and had no problems. However an SP86 CPU "should" be able to pass R23 at 1.350v bios set + LLC5 @ 5.1 ghz, I would "think".
> 
> At 5.2 ghz, with your exact settings, I passed 4 runs, then BSOD on the 5th run. 1.208v load (die sense reading) is too low for 5.2 ghz
> Mine needs about 1.225v-1.234v probably (for 5.2 ghz CB R23), which is probably about bios set-->1.375v set + LLC5.
> 
> First try 1 of 2 things.
> 
> First, try your 1.350v bios set + LLC5 like before, BUT
> In digi+VRM, change "Power phase control to Extreme, Power Duty Control to Extreme, and VRM switching Frequency (spread spectrum)=disabled and switching frequency to 800 khz.
> If 800 khz is not possible, set it to the highest value available.
> 
> Does this help??
> 
> Try 5.1 ghz again (1.350v bios set, LLC5) with the VRM settings I mentioned.
> 
> Do you BSOD?
> 
> If yes...
> 
> Try 1.375v bios set + LLC5 for your 5.1 ghz. This should pass, I hope.


I have a strix board and SP86 12900k, mine can pass cb23 with a reported voltage (hwinfo64) of 1.22v and this settings:
LLC#2
DC_LL = 1.46
AC_LL = 0.46
TVB enabled



i'm going to test 5.2ghz 1.3 now with LLC3 settings, but it pulls 240+w

@mattskiiau i can give you mine settings if you want to try

btw, i got still sometimes 0° bug on hwinfo


----------



## Falkentyne

mattxx88 said:


> I have a strix board and SP86 12900k, mine can pass cb23 with a reported voltage (hwinfo64) of 1.22v and this settings:
> LLC#2
> DC_LL = 1.46
> AC_LL = 0.46
> TVB enabled
> 
> 
> 
> i'm going to test 5.2ghz 1.3 now with LLC3 settings, but it pulls 240+w
> 
> @mattskiiau i can give you mine settings if you want to try
> 
> btw, i got still sometimes 0° bug on hwinfo


Can you use fixed vcore mode please?
Your board does not have "die sense" vcore readings, so it's impossible to relate the vcore you see on your hwinfo sensor to "real" vcore. Socket sense vcore readings are always going to be higher than die sense readings. Your real vcore is probably around 1.19v if I take the test I did with using @mattskiiau 's exact setting on my Maximus Extreme, testing 1.350v bios set, LLC=level 5, and running R23 at 5.1 (sync all cores), x37 E-cores, x36 cache ratio. This gave me a die sense load voltage of 1.208v-1.217v.

I tried this exact same setting at 5.2 ghz sync all cores, but it BSOD's with a clock watchdog timeout on the 4th run of R23


----------



## mattxx88

Falkentyne said:


> Can you use fixed vcore mode please?
> Your board does not have "die sense" vcore readings, so it's impossible to relate the vcore you see on your hwinfo sensor to "real" vcore. Socket sense vcore readings are always going to be higher than die sense readings. Your real vcore is probably around 1.19v if I take the test I did with using @mattskiiau 's exact setting on my Maximus Extreme, testing 1.350v bios set, LLC=level 5, and running R23 at 5.1 (sync all cores), x37 E-cores, x36 cache ratio. This gave me a die sense load voltage of 1.208v-1.217v.
> 
> I tried this exact same setting at 5.2 ghz sync all cores, but it BSOD's with a clock watchdog timeout on the 4th run of R23


what llc with fixed vcore?


----------



## Falkentyne

mattxx88 said:


> what llc with fixed vcore?


Didn't I write it in my post?


----------



## mattxx88

Falkentyne said:


> Didn't I write it in my post?


sorry, I'm doing too many things at once at work 😅
roger


----------



## morph.

mattskiiau said:


> Bruh.. I think I got real unlucky or I'm doing something wrong.
> *SP:* 93 P / 73 E
> *R32 vmin*: 1.28v 5.1/4.2Ghz / 4GHz E.
> *Temps*: 230w / 78c / 192amps
> 
> Sad.


Out of curiosity which retailer did you get that CPU from and what sort of cooling are u running?


----------



## cstkl1

mattskiiau said:


> Bruh.. I think I got real unlucky or I'm doing something wrong.
> *SP:* 93 P / 73 E
> *R32 vmin*: 1.28v 5.1/4.2Ghz / 4GHz E.
> *Temps*: 230w / 78c / 192amps
> 
> Sad.


its fine dude. your temps are good,


----------



## mattskiiau

morph. said:


> Out of curiosity which retailer did you get that CPU from and what sort of cooling are u running?


From PCCG. Corsair h115i Capelix without the new standoffs


----------



## ZealotKi11er

What water blocks are you guys running for 12900K? I am still using a old EK Supreme HF. I looked at the new LGA1700 blocks from EK and they are crazy expensive. Do they give substantial cooling performance.


----------



## mattxx88

Falkentyne said:


> Can you use fixed vcore mode please?
> Your board does not have "die sense" vcore readings, so it's impossible to relate the vcore you see on your hwinfo sensor to "real" vcore. Socket sense vcore readings are always going to be higher than die sense readings. Your real vcore is probably around 1.19v if I take the test I did with using @mattskiiau 's exact setting on my Maximus Extreme, testing 1.350v bios set, LLC=level 5, and running R23 at 5.1 (sync all cores), x37 E-cores, x36 cache ratio. This gave me a die sense load voltage of 1.208v-1.217v.
> 
> I tried this exact same setting at 5.2 ghz sync all cores, but it BSOD's with a clock watchdog timeout on the 4th run of R23


51x fix vcore:


52x fix vcore:


at 52x mine also crashed after 5 mins "Unexpected kernel mode trap"

Strix report 1.27/6V under full load


----------



## ChaosAD

ZealotKi11er said:


> What water blocks are you guys running for 12900K? I am still using a old EK Supreme HF. I looked at the new LGA1700 blocks from EK and they are crazy expensive. Do they give substantial cooling performance.


I am using an old XSPC Raystorm. I thought of getting the new EK Quantum Velocity2 but i haven't seen any reviews yet and i don't really think it will justify the 125 euros + shipping. So i ll wait for the LGA1700 bracket that XSPC is going to release early next month, or so they said.


----------



## dante`afk

ZealotKi11er said:


> What water blocks are you guys running for 12900K? I am still using a old EK Supreme HF. I looked at the new LGA1700 blocks from EK and they are crazy expensive. Do they give substantial cooling performance.


EK = mediocre to garbage quality for premium price
Watercool/Aquacomputer = superior German engineering quality for normal price.


----------



## acoustic

What are you guys runnin for VDDQ voltage? I'm on a DDR4 board, but I'm seeing Auto set it to 1.35v. What is safe?


----------



## Bilco

Just threw everything together and booted it up for the first time. SP89 on the 0231 bios. Got a kit of Kingston Fury 32gb 5200c40. I selected the 5400 Micron profile and set the frequency to 5400 manually and I am getting some weird behavior on reboot and shut down... the motherboard doesn't seem to shut down all the way. I lose video signal but the board will sit there with all lights fans/pump spun up sitting there with a happy A0 post code... guessing this is something to do with the bios version or micron 5400 profile? 

I am thinking of going to 802 for the bios version but then I saw Sugi0's post :X Is it safe enough to hop on and how should I flash it?


----------



## Bilco

dante`afk said:


> EK = mediocre to garbage quality for premium price
> Watercool/Aquacomputer = superior German engineering quality for normal price.


Aren't all the blocks within 2-3C of one another or less in tests?


----------



## raad11

Bilco said:


> I am thinking of going to 802 for the bios version but then I saw Sugi0's post :X Is it safe enough to hop on and how should I flash it?


What post?


----------



## dante`afk

Bilco said:


> Aren't all the blocks within 2-3C of one another or less in tests?


they are, but there have been enough reports/pics of how products look like when they get delivered from EK. And you have the premium price you pay there as well.


----------



## roooo

ZealotKi11er said:


> What water blocks are you guys running for 12900K? I am still using a old EK Supreme HF. I looked at the new LGA1700 blocks from EK and they are crazy expensive. Do they give substantial cooling performance.


Alphacool Eisblock XPX Deep Black non-Aurora version. Did a great job with RKL and does so with ADL without the need for additional brackets or tweaks.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I am hitting 93c with R23 10-min at stock. Ambient is 29C.


----------



## Bilco

raad11 said:


> What post?


this one: 


sugi0lover said:


> While updating to 0802, I got SP96 bug, so I flashed to 0231 and lol~~
> View attachment 2533483
> 
> 
> View attachment 2533484


----------



## dante`afk

ZealotKi11er said:


> I am hitting 93c with R23 10-min at stock. Ambient is 29C.


240mm or air? not adequate cooling.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

dante`afk said:


> 240mm or air? not adequate cooling.



2x360 RAD.
Also my other 12900K with 360 AIO hitting about the same thing, 91C but with 22C ambient.


----------



## Carillo

ZealotKi11er said:


> I am hitting 93c with R23 10-min at stock. Ambient is 29C.


Sounds strange... I'm hitting only high 60's low 70's with only ONE radiator ( 1987 Mitsubishi space wagon radiator and BMW M4 electric waterpump )


----------



## Exilon

acoustic said:


> What are you guys runnin for VDDQ voltage? I'm on a DDR4 board, but I'm seeing Auto set it to 1.35v. What is safe?


Boards automatically set it to match DRAM voltage in XMP profiles but from experimenting they don't need to match.

I'm running 1.40V with 1.50V DRAM right now, 4 passes of MemTest86 clean

Other voltages I've tried:
1.30V doesn't train
1.45V with exact same timings doesn't pass MemTest86
1.5-V doesn't train


----------



## Exilon

Falkentyne said:


> Plus the best boards to buy right now are all DDR5 boards.
> Do any of the DDR4 boards have die sense (VR VOUT)?
> And some don't even have a post code or safe boot button...or have one but not the other...


I have the Strix D4 and it has an option to automatically set DC_LL to match LLC so the VID is calibrated to the die sense. VRM power matches package power closely so I assume it's working.

It doesn't have a post code but the four CPU/RAM/GPU/boot are enough to figure out what is wrong. When POST fails by reset, it boots with default settings. I upgraded from a Z390 with safe boot and 7-seg display and I don't miss them.


----------



## Daniel M

Bilco said:


> Has anyone gotten a 1700 adapter plate from ekwb and installed their velocity waterblock? I am unsure which instruction set to follow. The 20xx standoffs work so I assume I'm supposed to go with that set of instructions?
> 
> Figured it out, for those who are wondering its the 20XX instructions - use those stand offs with washers.


Edit: LGA 1151/1200 not 1500…
the directions I followed said to use the LGA 1200 standoffs with springs.

Seems to work well. I missed the part about springs first time around….


----------



## Exilon

Daniel M said:


> the directions I followed said to use the LGA 1500 standoffs with springs.
> 
> Seems to work well. I missed the part about springs first time around….


You mean LGA 1200/1151 standoffs?

@Bilco, I used the LGA1200 instructions. It's a 1-for-1 backplate swap.


----------



## SoldierRBT

I don't recommend 0801 bios. It crashes even at stock clocks in latest prime95 for ADL. Went back to 0702 and it's stable at same settings.


----------



## Daniel M

Exilon said:


> You mean LGA 1200/1151 standoffs?
> 
> @Bilco, I used the LGA1200 instructions. It's a 1-for-1 backplate swap.


Yes got the number wrong lol


----------



## acoustic

Exilon said:


> Boards automatically set it to match DRAM voltage in XMP profiles but from experimenting they don't need to match.
> 
> I'm running 1.40V with 1.50V DRAM right now, 4 passes of MemTest86 clean
> 
> Other voltages I've tried:
> 1.30V doesn't train
> 1.45V with exact same timings doesn't pass MemTest86
> 1.5-V doesn't train


Got this answer regarding VDDQ from Shamino:


> tx vddq is fivr'ed , its almost impossible to use too much voltage on fivr rails since they trip early. you're pretty much maxed out at that 1.6v, theres a vdroop and you're more doing around 1.55v real. fivr rails never ever really do much above 1.6v even when you raise vccin to 3v lol no matter what u set.
> theoretically this should be the same level as dram voltage but in practice it may not always be the case plus the fact that one may do higher dram voltage than 1.6v which is more than its capable of .


I'm basically offsetting as Shamino said the .05v to match my VDIMM. I'm currently testing 1.52v VDIMM @ 1.6v VDDQ, but I will try 1.57v VDQQ (which would give me roughly 1.52v VDDQ per Shamino's post) once I finish tweaking.


----------



## asdkj1740

Bilco said:


> Just threw everything together and booted it up for the first time. SP89 on the 0231 bios. Got a kit of Kingston Fury 32gb 5200c40. I selected the 5400 Micron profile and set the frequency to 5400 manually and I am getting some weird behavior on reboot and shut down... the motherboard doesn't seem to shut down all the way. I lose video signal but the board will sit there with all lights fans/pump spun up sitting there with a happy A0 post code... guessing this is something to do with the bios version or micron 5400 profile?
> 
> I am thinking of going to 802 for the bios version but then I saw Sugi0's post :X Is it safe enough to hop on and how should I flash it?


what exact model is your ram kit? 16*2 in one pack?


----------



## xarot

Couldn’t keep up with the thread. How’s Asus Prime Z690-P D4 overclockability with 12900K for 24/7 clocks? Board has 8+4 pin but dunno about VRM quality and its cooling.


----------



## asdkj1740

xarot said:


> Couldn’t keep up with the thread. How’s Asus Prime Z690-P D4 overclockability with 12900K for 24/7 clocks? Board has 8+4 pin but dunno about VRM quality and its cooling.


even matx prime p with less vcore power stages is capable to handle ~250w.








Обзор материнской платы ASUS Prime Z690M-Plus D4 GreenTech_Reviews


Обзор и тестирование материнской платы ASUS Prime Z690M-Plus D4




greentechreviews.ru


----------



## ObviousCough

The MSI PRO Z690-A isn't letting me disable the E cores on my 12600k.

I went into the bios and tried disabling all of them individually. Then i tried setting the number of active cores to 1 and disabling it. Still showed up at 6+1. I bumped up the enabled E cores to 2 while keeping the first one still set as disabled and cpu-z showed 6+2.












Is there another setting somewhere else i am missing?


----------



## Forsaken1

ObviousCough said:


> The MSI PRO Z690-A isn't letting me disable the E cores on my 12600k.
> 
> I went into the bios and tried disabling all of them individually. Then i tried setting the number of active cores to 1 and disabling it. Still showed up at 6+1. I bumped up the enabled E cores to 2 while keeping the first one still set as disabled and cpu-z showed 6+2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there another setting somewhere else i am missing?


You have a active E core in bios setting.


----------



## ObviousCough

Where?

It's clearly set to [Disabled] in the advanced cpu menu as shown above. 


1 is the lowest number i can set. Then i go above and disable it in the per core setting.


----------



## acoustic

ObviousCough said:


> Where?
> 
> It's clearly set to [Disabled]


Can you set "Active E-Cores" to [Disabled]? Because currently, it shows [1]


----------



## ObviousCough

Nope. 

1 is the lowest and the rest are for more or all.

The only way i see to disable them is in the "per E-core control" sub menu


----------



## D-EJ915

ObviousCough said:


> The MSI PRO Z690-A isn't letting me disable the E cores on my 12600k.
> 
> I went into the bios and tried disabling all of them individually. Then i tried setting the number of active cores to 1 and disabling it. Still showed up at 6+1. I bumped up the enabled E cores to 2 while keeping the first one still set as disabled and cpu-z showed 6+2.
> 
> 
> Is there another setting somewhere else i am missing?







shows here it has "enabled and dis all e-core" at like 43 min or so, don't use the 2nd option for active e-cores.


----------



## acoustic

D-EJ915 said:


> shows here it has "enabled and dis all e-core" at like 43 min or so, don't use the 2nd option for active e-cores.


Nice find!


----------



## mattskiiau

mattxx88 said:


> @mattskiiau i can give you mine settings if you want to try


I'd love to try if you can throw me your settings!
Thank you


----------



## mattskiiau

Exilon said:


> I have the Strix D4 and it has an option to automatically set DC_LL to match LLC so the VID is calibrated to the die sense.


What is this option called on the Strix D4?


----------



## ObviousCough

D-EJ915 said:


> shows here it has "enabled and dis all e-core" at like 43 min or so, don't use the 2nd option for active e-cores.




















i set them all to disabled and they all show up









Intel Core i5 @ 5187.31 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


[zmeu0u] Validated Dump by ObviousCough (2021-11-20 23:03:03) - MB: MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4(MS-7D25) - RAM: 32768 MB




valid.x86.fr





i cleared cmos, i tried reflashing bios from a fresh downloaded version. E-cores won't go away.


----------



## D-EJ915

ObviousCough said:


> i set them all to disabled and they all show up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core i5 @ 5187.31 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
> 
> 
> [zmeu0u] Validated Dump by ObviousCough (2021-11-20 23:03:03) - MB: MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4(MS-7D25) - RAM: 32768 MB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> valid.x86.fr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i cleared cmos, i tried reflashing bios from a fresh downloaded version. E-cores won't go away.


looks like your bios is different for some reason, see if you can send support ticket for them to update it for you. I've done this for gigabyte and they did for me, not sure about msi.


----------



## HiLuckyB

There's a good chance if you don't have the highest end MSI MB they probably didn't include it in the Bios. They seem to really cut the Bios down from what I seen. I have a MPG Z690 Carbon ready to go as soon as my kit of ddr5 gets here Monday or Tuesday.


----------



## ObviousCough

My Z590 Unify-X is on RMA right now, it smoked out my apartment while idling on the desktop one day. If MSI does right by me on it i'm getting a Z690 Unify-X for DDR5. I have a ton of high end DDR4 to play with though and not being able to max out my cache because the E-cores are there is a bummer.


----------



## neteng101

ObviousCough said:


> i cleared cmos, i tried reflashing bios from a fresh downloaded version. E-cores won't go away.


Try the 1.13 beta bios with legacy game compatibility mode posted by TechPowerUp. It has an option in Per E-Core Control to set to Enabled and Dis All E-Core.


----------



## Forsaken1

Per-E Core Control Enabled
E-Core 0-X Disabled.
Save & exit.

It must look like this before save & exit.


----------



## Falkentyne

ObviousCough said:


> Where?
> 
> It's clearly set to [Disabled] in the advanced cpu menu as shown above.
> 
> 
> 1 is the lowest number i can set. Then i go above and disable it in the per core setting.


Found the Divide by Zero bios bug.


----------



## Exilon

mattskiiau said:


> What is this option called on the Strix D4?


I don't recall the exact name but it's right under the vcore LLC setting.
Enable it, set your LLC, and then go change DC_LL to Auto.

LLC3 sets my DC_LL to 1.09mOhm after I do this.


----------



## acoustic

Exilon said:


> I don't recall the exact name but it's right under the vcore LLC setting.
> Enable it, set your LLC, and then go change DC_LL to Auto.
> 
> LLC3 sets my DC_LL to 1.09mOhm after I do this.


The option you're thinking of is called "Sync VRM Loadline to ACDC Loadline" or something along those lines.


----------



## gerardfraser

ObviousCough said:


> The MSI PRO Z690-A isn't letting me disable the E cores on my 12600k.
> 
> I went into the bios and tried disabling all of them individually. Then i tried setting the number of active cores to 1 and disabling it. Still showed up at 6+1. I bumped up the enabled E cores to 2 while keeping the first one still set as disabled and cpu-z showed 6+2.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there another setting somewhere else i am missing?


You got the wrong setting. it is this,


----------



## Falkentyne

acoustic said:


> The option you're thinking of is called "Sync VRM Loadline to ACDC Loadline" or something along those lines.


I would strongly advise not using that setting unless you know precisely what you're doing.
First, this setting is ignored if LLC is set on "Auto".

Kingfaris enabled that at 5.2 ghz and got close to 1.6v idle at 5.2 ghz on his 12somethinghundred K (idk if he has a 12900k, 12700k or 12600k) at LLC3 or 4 or something, as that set ACLL to either 1.1 mohms (the mohms value for LLC3) or 0.98 mohms (the LLC value for LLC4).

Setting AC Loadline to 1.1 mohms is the highest value per intel specification and is usually reserved for the worst possible chips. This is what SVID Behavior: Intel Fail Safe sets AC/DC to if you have AC/DC itself on auto. Worst Case Scenario sets AC/DC somewhere around 0.9 mohms. (worst case scenario--you have weak chips requiring high voltage for an OC). Even if LLC is set to level 3, this may give you 1.55-1.6v at idle--the higher the set clock and VID for that frequency, the higher the base voltage will be if you use a high ACLL.

ACLL behavior is very different on Z490 and newer than it was on Z390 and older. It controls native VID boosting behavior via pcode but on Z390 and older it's based on current the CPU is actually pulling, which means it can get countered too quickly by "inrush current" (violent transient), causing a quick BSOD at a high OC, as the VRM can't adjust fast enough to give the CPU what it needs, while it works very well (Z390 and older) for stable balanced loads like Prime95 small FFT and Cinebench.

On z490 and newer, ACLL seems to communicate to the VRM what the CPU initially wants depending more on some sort of offset value (via some unknown formula) and temp scaling, rather than by actual current. This change in functionality may have been required for V/F and Pcode support through SVID.
So in this regard this is more useful, especially with regard to c-states and so on. But I can think of 0 good reasons to set ACLL any higher than 0.6 mOhms.

Ideally you want to keep AC Loadline between 0.1 mohms-0.6 mOhms and adjust the LLC and V/F point offsets so your idle vcore and load vcore are not too far away from each other. Pcode will handle the rest.

(oddly enough I found some strange behavior with crashing E cores (uncorrectable WHEA, followed by hardware full reset shutdown) with Stockfish chess engine and a too low ACLL value, even though the load vcore was far more than what stockfish needed to be fully stable at 4.9 ghz (tested with manual set vcore to get 1.112v at 4.9 ghz load, while ACLL 0.40 with LLC3+ Auto vcore+sync all cores (x49) would randomly cause a complete freeze then complete AC power shutdown! (Vcore load = 1.146v, which was enough to pass prime95 small FFT FMA3 with flying colors!).
Then it turned back on again automatically and windows event log showed an "uncorrectable WHEA Error had occurred". 
ACLL 0.45 prevented that. No time to investigate such shenanigans right now, but I can't reproduce this at all with E cores disabled. I even found a decent setting for a low idle voltage (cstates disabled) at 5.2 ghz P cores only just to show that the P cores were not responsible for this:

ACLL/DCLL = 0.1 mohms (set manually, note, NOT 0.01 mohms!), LLC: Level 6, VF #7-#11 offsets: -0.04v (negative), 5.2 ghz sync all cores (E cores disabled), Cache ratio 48.

Quick test passed Stockfish chess engine on 16 threads at 1.261v load die sense. Idle voltage was 1.332v, which is a lot nicer than idling at 1.412v by setting fixed bios set vcore 1.455v + LLC4, which gave me the same 1.261v at load. If stockfish randomly BSOD's with clock watchdog timeout (unstable P cores), I could just reduce the V/F 7-11 offsets to -0.03. But I have no time to waste time testing that all day.


----------



## 2500k_2

ObviousCough said:


> i set them all to disabled and they all show up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core i5 @ 5187.31 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
> 
> 
> [zmeu0u] Validated Dump by ObviousCough (2021-11-20 23:03:03) - MB: MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4(MS-7D25) - RAM: 32768 MB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> valid.x86.fr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i cleared cmos, i tried reflashing bios from a fresh downloaded version. E-cores won't go away.








Beta/MP - Google Drive







drive.google.com




1) update the BIOS to version 113.
2) turn off cores as in the screenshot
3) .....
4) Profit


Spoiler: bios


----------



## Exilon

Falkentyne said:


> Kingfaris enabled that at 5.2 ghz and got close to 1.6v idle at 5.2 ghz on his 12somethinghundred K (idk if he has a 12900k, 12700k or 12600k) at LLC3 or 4 or something, as that set ACLL to either 1.1 mohms (the mohms value for LLC3) or 0.98 mohms (the LLC value for LLC4).


Then set AC_LL manually and keep DC_LL on auto. Not hard


----------



## Bilco

asdkj1740 said:


> what exact model is your ram kit? 16*2 in one pack?


Yes: KF552C40BBK2-32


----------



## Falkentyne

Exilon said:


> Then set AC_LL manually and keep DC_LL on auto. Not hard


Did you really just say that to me?
Holy crap, dude...
Like way to ignore everything I wrote and turn it into a personal ad hominem attack.

You are on my block list now.


----------



## ogider

edit


----------



## asdkj1740

messing around with per core oc and adaptive voltage. single p core 5.4g, all p cores 5.1g.
cannot get all p cores = 5ghz under prime95 sffts avx, even with avx offset used.
avx offset is very strange to me too, i need to set it at 4 to try making all p cores stay at 5g under p95 sffts avx, but a lot of times one or two cores may go up to 5.1ghz, resulting in a huge voltage jump compared to the voltage when all p core = 5g.


----------



## cstkl1

i9-12900k - SP93
MZ690 Apex - Bios 0802
Gskill 2x16gb 6400 28-37-37-28-1T 280 @1.55
SA/MC/txvdd1 - 0.9|1.45|1.45


----------



## dante`afk

whats txvdd1 and MC?

can't wait to get my hands on some gskill ram sometime


----------



## cstkl1

dante`afk said:


> whats txvdd1 and MC?
> 
> can't wait to get my hands on some gskill ram sometime


typo
txvddq and Memory controller voltage

new bios really really good

broke 1:18 on tm5 to 1:17


----------



## dante`afk

IVR Transmitter VDDQ Voltage this one?


----------



## cstkl1

dante`afk said:


> IVR Transmitter VDDQ Voltage this one?


yup


----------



## dante`afk

anyone seen any noticeable improvements by disabling ring down and setting ring to like 4 or 4.5 ? 
How would you work on that to get it stable, CPU L2 voltage?


----------



## cstkl1

dante`afk said:


> anyone seen any noticeable improvements by disabling ring down and setting ring to like 4 or 4.5 ?
> How would you work on that to get it stable, CPU L2 voltage?


cache auto P core load is 47 
scroll lock is 46

so... y oc cache at all with p+e


----------



## Jbgough123

Couple questions regarding the gskill ram. Is it ever coming to Canada lol? Also are the current 5600 and 6000 kits using Samsung??? Or is that being saved for the 6400-6600 kits? Sucks sitting on this z690 hero and 12700k with no ram, I've searched low and high even for some corsair dominator but really wanted to hold out or get some solid gskill ram.

Cstk is the ram you're posting those pictures of the current 5600 or 6000mhz available to public or different stuff all together? Noticed the part number didn't match up to there current 5600 or 6000 kits.


----------



## sugi0lover

OC 6400 CL30 1T with Hynix 4800C40

○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / P Cores 5.5Ghz / E Cores 4.3Ghz / Cache 4.5Ghz
○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 6400Mhz-30-37-37-26-280-1T (Gear 2)
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0802)
○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.340v(llc7) / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.435v / MC 1.300v / SA Auto
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.


----------



## ObviousCough

2500k_2 said:


> Beta/MP - Google Drive
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1) update the BIOS to version 113.
> 2) turn off cores as in the screenshot
> 3) .....
> 4) Profit
> 
> 
> Spoiler: bios
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2533648


MUCH PROFIT!

Bios update did the trick!

Thank you!




edit: and now i can run at least 4000 in gear 1 when i was stuck at 3600 on the pervious bios


----------



## Exilon

dante`afk said:


> anyone seen any noticeable improvements by disabling ring down and setting ring to like 4 or 4.5 ?
> How would you work on that to get it stable, CPU L2 voltage?


Yes, increase CPU L2 voltage to overclock ring with E-cores active.
I was able to stabilize 4.3 ring at 1.3V

But if you change the ratio, the ring will no longer go to 47 with E-cores parked so that's a trade off you're going to have to test.


----------



## Falkentyne

So bios 0802 for Apex/Extreme seems to allow you to disable specific P and E cores. And my AVX512 is still there. Intel will take AVX512 from my P cores from my cold, bony fingers.
Thank you @shamino1978


----------



## morph.

mattskiiau said:


> From PCCG. Corsair h115i Capelix without the new standoffs


Was your batch made in Vietnam or China my 12900k pre-order still looks to be in limbo might just pull the trigger with pccg and cancel the pre-order...

still need ram though sigh...
Got my Z690 Formula board and EKWB Velocity 2 Waterblock sitting here...


----------



## Imprezzion

So, cheap 4800C40 RAM will OC quite well lol? I was going to just get a Strix-A D4 with a 12900K with my B-Die 4400C17 or whatever gear 1 can do. (4000C15?) but I can get 4800C40 pretty decently well here lol.. So I might be able to get DDR5 and OC that to like 6000C38 or whatever.

My god, the choices...


----------



## digitalfrost

Does any1 have an idea how to set the AC_LL and DC_LL on MSI Boards (It's called CPU Lite Load there). I tried the values suggested in this thread Maximus Z690 and Alder Lake: Modern CPU's require... but this just results in much higher vcore than VID.

It seems MSI does things differently.


----------



## acoustic

digitalfrost said:


> Does any1 have an idea how to set the AC_LL and DC_LL on MSI Boards (It's called CPU Lite Load there). I tried the values suggested in this thread Maximus Z690 and Alder Lake: Modern CPU's require... but this just results in much higher vcore than VID.
> 
> It seems MSI does things differently.


MSI LLC is different from ASUS, and unless they finally added Die Sense, it's kind of hard to precisely match your DC_LL to your LLC.

You will have to tune it manually - or at least you can get it pretty close. Here's how I was doing it on my MSI Z490 ACE with a 10900K - should be the same.

Set your vCORE to Auto, LLC to whatever you want to run it at, and set CPU Lite Load to Advanced - set AC and DC to 1. Go into Windows, run CB23, and see how much different your VR VOUT is compared to your CPU VID.

If the VID is _higher_ than your VR VOUT, you need to INCREASE DC_LL.

If the VID is _lower_ than your VR VOUT, you need to DECREASE DC_LL

You want your VID to match your VR VOUT. It's not an exact science since VR VOUT will be slightly higher than the actual voltage, but it's a lot better than running your DC_LL at 1. Once you have it tuned, your CPU Package Power should be a bit more accurate.


----------



## Falkentyne

digitalfrost said:


> Does any1 have an idea how to set the AC_LL and DC_LL on MSI Boards (It's called CPU Lite Load there). I tried the values suggested in this thread Maximus Z690 and Alder Lake: Modern CPU's require... but this just results in much higher vcore than VID.
> 
> It seems MSI does things differently.


MSI values are in 1/100 mohm (or more precisely, x / 100 mohm where x is the value you enter.
asus values are in mohm directly
so 100 on msI = 1 on asus.
1 on MSI = 0.01 on Asus.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

New OCTool_ADL1121 released...

Fixed OCTVB and HW-info conflict.










Asus Tools


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## digitalfrost

Falkentyne said:


> MSI values are in 1/100 mohm (or more precisely, x / 100 mohm where x is the value you enter.
> asus values are in mohm directly
> so 100 on msI = 1 on asus.
> 1 on MSI = 0.01 on Asus.


Sorry I should've been more clear. I understand that. I set DC_LL to 170 and AC_LL to 60 on my MSI (with default LLC=Auto), which results in overvolting (Vcore higher than VID). The board defaults to 80/80. If I lower it much, I get much worse performance in benchmarks. If it lower it more, it becomes unstable.
However, if it set both values to 1 (so 0.01 on Asus), I have the lowest Vcore, good benchmark results and everything's stable? It's very strange.



acoustic said:


> MSI LLC is different from ASUS, and unless they finally added Die Sense, it's kind of hard to precisely match your DC_LL to your LLC.
> 
> You will have to tune it manually - or at least you can get it pretty close. Here's how I was doing it on my MSI Z490 ACE with a 10900K - should be the same.
> 
> Set your vCORE to Auto, LLC to whatever you want to run it at, and set CPU Lite Load to Advanced - set AC and DC to 1. Go into Windows, run CB23, and see how much different your VR VOUT is compared to your CPU VID.
> 
> If the VID is _higher_ than your VR VOUT, you need to INCREASE DC_LL.
> 
> If the VID is _lower_ than your VR VOUT, you need to DECREASE DC_LL
> 
> You want your VID to match your VR VOUT. It's not an exact science since VR VOUT will be slightly higher than the actual voltage, but it's a lot better than running your DC_LL at 1. Once you have it tuned, your CPU Package Power should be a bit more accurate.


Thanks. Unfortunately, my board doesn't even have VR VOUT, I only have the Vcore reading. But using that, I kept AC_LL at 1 and increased by DC_LL until it tracked the VID while still having minimal Vdroop. Seems to be a good setting, I can tell my temps are lower.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

digitalfrost said:


> Sorry I should've been more clear. I understand that. I set DC_LL to 170 and AC_LL to 60 on my MSI (with default LLC=Auto), which results in overvolting (Vcore higher than VID). The board defaults to 80/80. If I lower it much, I get much worse performance in benchmarks. If it lower it more, it becomes unstable.
> However, if it set both values to 1 (so 0.01 on Asus), I have the lowest Vcore, good benchmark results and everything's stable? It's very strange.
> 
> Thanks. Unfortunately, my board doesn't even have VR VOUT, I only have the Vcore reading. But using that, I kept AC_LL at 1 and increased by DC_LL until it tracked the VID while still having minimal Vdroop. Seems to be a good setting, I can tell my temps are lower.


I think when you decide to set any load line, you should set all of them...
If you set AC_LL, DC_LL and let LLC AUTO I think you will have a problem...
These 3 loadlines shall be set together... and they are interdependent.
The LLC chosen will define the DC_LL, and for these LLC and DC_LL you need to find the lowest AC_LL to be stable.

Intel's spec recommends AC_LL=DC_LL, and there's a reason for this...

I'll try to explain.

The impedance of a load line is a fixed value that theoretically we cannot change.

It is the resistance of the "wire" that carries energy from the power supply to the load.
So this value is intrinsic to the project.
Since it is fixed, loadline values should be informed to CPU, so that loadline losses are compensated.

However, VRMs have a parameter that "changes" the output impedance of this power supply (VRM LLC).
So we have a new impedance variable that is added to the "wire" impedance.

The physical resistance of the load lines (wire) varies around 1mohm... That's why the intel standard is LLC#3 (1.1mhom).
In this condition, using LLC#3, AC_LL=1.1 and DC_LL=1.1 we would be complying with Intel's specifications...
However, this condition is established for a unknown scenario (A good motherboard or crap one).
So these configurations are a condition that guarantees the functioning of the CPU on any motherboard.

As we buy motherboards of excellent quality, and with lots of features, and our intention is to overclock using the lowest possible voltage, we changed these LLs in order to adjust the voltage to the minimum values.
We can do this using any LLC, AC_LL and DC_LL...
It only gets easier if we use these settings to our advantage.


----------



## Falkentyne

digitalfrost said:


> Sorry I should've been more clear. I understand that. I set DC_LL to 170 and AC_LL to 60 on my MSI (with default LLC=Auto), which results in overvolting (Vcore higher than VID). The board defaults to 80/80. If I lower it much, I get much worse performance in benchmarks. If it lower it more, it becomes unstable.
> However, if it set both values to 1 (so 0.01 on Asus), I have the lowest Vcore, good benchmark results and everything's stable? It's very strange.
> 
> Thanks. Unfortunately, my board doesn't even have VR VOUT, I only have the Vcore reading. But using that, I kept AC_LL at 1 and increased by DC_LL until it tracked the VID while still having minimal Vdroop. Seems to be a good setting, I can tell my temps are lower.


I have no way of knowing the answer to this.
How did it become unstable? What were the symptoms, errors or problems? 
What was the LLC (Loadline calibration) set to? Was it set to Auto? Or a specific "Mode" setting??

This might be annoying, but what happens if you lower DCLL by itself while ACLL is locked at 80? 
Does that cause any change in benchmarks or stability? (it shouldn't)

When ACLL was 1 and DCLL was whatever, raising DCLL higher didn't affect anything except the VID?

When you said you lowered ACLL and it made you more unstable, setting ACLL to the lowest value (1) should have been an instant BSOD....


----------



## sniperpowa

ZealotKi11er said:


> What water blocks are you guys running for 12900K? I am still using a old EK Supreme HF. I looked at the new LGA1700 blocks from EK and they are crazy expensive. Do they give substantial cooling performance.


I run optimus sig. temps are great


----------



## acoustic

digitalfrost said:


> Thanks. Unfortunately, my board doesn't even have VR VOUT, I only have the Vcore reading. But using that, I kept AC_LL at 1 and increased by DC_LL until it tracked the VID while still having minimal Vdroop. Seems to be a good setting, I can tell my temps are lower.


When doing this testing, do not leave LLC on AUTO - set it to LLC Mode 4 or Mode 5 - those will be your ideal LLC. Remember, any time you change your LLC, you will need to re-tune your DC_LL to match the new impedance of the LLC. Once you have it dialed in, just remember the values. On Z490, for LLC Mode 4, I ran DC_LL 21 to match my VR VOUT and VID. On Mode 3, I ran DC_LL 14.

I strongly suggest setting an LLC rather than letting the board set it through AUTO.

DC_LL at 170 is very high (170 = 1.70mOhm), but what likely is happening is that LLC AUTO is setting a very low LLC (mode 7 or mode 8, possibly no LLC at all which is possible on MSI)

*reminder*, MSI LLC is opposite of ASUS LLC. Mode 1 is your STRONGEST impedance on MSI, while on ASUS it is your weakest -- LLC 8 is your WEAKEST impedance on MSI, while on ASUS it is your strongest.

If you only have the VCORE reading, then MSI has changed their VRM from Z490. I don't have an MSI board this gen, but I spent a LOT of time learning their BIOS on Z490, so if you have any questions feel free to PM me. I really liked my Z490 ACE, but it died on me and so I went to an ASUS TUF to hold me over until Sapphire Rapids comes out in Q3 2022.

@Falkentyne Question for you brotha:

What settings are you using to determine silicon quality? I'm on a 12700K, ASUS TUF PLUS D4 -- I believe it was LLC5, 5.1 P All-Core / 3.7 E All-Core / 3.6 Cache, right? Find vmin on CB23; I found mine at 1.265v, 1.325v BIOS on an ASUS TUF PLUS D4 -- how's that stacking up, even compared to the 12900K's you've seen?


----------



## Falkentyne

acoustic said:


> When doing this testing, do not leave LLC on AUTO - set it to LLC Mode 4 or Mode 5 - those will be your ideal LLC. Remember, any time you change your LLC, you will need to re-tune your DC_LL to match the new impedance of the LLC. Once you have it dialed in, just remember the values. On Z490, for LLC Mode 4, I ran DC_LL 21 to match my VR VOUT and VID. On Mode 3, I ran DC_LL 14.
> 
> I strongly suggest setting an LLC rather than letting the board set it through AUTO.
> 
> DC_LL at 170 is very high (170 = 1.70mOhm), but what likely is happening is that LLC AUTO is setting a very low LLC (mode 7 or mode 8, possibly no LLC at all which is possible on MSI)
> 
> *reminder*, MSI LLC is opposite of ASUS LLC. Mode 1 is your STRONGEST impedance on MSI, while on ASUS it is your weakest -- LLC 8 is your WEAKEST impedance on MSI, while on ASUS it is your strongest.
> 
> If you only have the VCORE reading, then MSI has changed their VRM from Z490. I don't have an MSI board this gen, but I spent a LOT of time learning their BIOS on Z490, so if you have any questions feel free to PM me. I really liked my Z490 ACE, but it died on me and so I went to an ASUS TUF to hold me over until Sapphire Rapids comes out in Q3 2022.
> 
> @Falkentyne Question for you brotha:
> 
> What settings are you using to determine silicon quality? I'm on a 12700K, ASUS TUF PLUS D4 -- I believe it was LLC5, 5.1 P All-Core / 3.7 E All-Core / 3.6 Cache, right? Find vmin on CB23; I found mine at 1.265v, 1.325v BIOS on an ASUS TUF PLUS D4 -- how's that stacking up, even compared to the 12900K's you've seen?


I use Stockfish chess engine. If stockfish passes, nothing outside of Prime95 (ADL version 30.7 build 9 on their forums) small FFT FMA3 will crash the computer, and you aren't cooling prime95 small FFT FMA3 at higher than 5.1 ghz without some powerful watercooling.

Stockfish requires like 40-50mv higher die-sense Vmin to not BSOD than Cinebench R23 or gaming (Seems to apply almost the same to E cores disabled vs enabled), so I don't game at my stockfish settings at higher voltages/frequency. If I don't care about stockfish, I loop R23 for awhile at a lower voltage and if that passes, that's my game stable profile.


----------



## orbitech

Can someone inform me what is a safe PMIC value for 24/7, the upper limit to use?


----------



## gerardfraser

10 Minute Cinebench test and does not mean anything
CPU Override manual 1.20v
LLC Mode 2
52 P-core
40 E-core
41- Ring
Multi score- was 29228,just took screen while running
DDR4 Dual Rank 32GB Gear 1 3866 SA-1.20v
Msi Pro z-690-A


----------



## acoustic

Nice!


----------



## Arni90

gerardfraser said:


> 10 Minute Cinebench test and does not mean anything
> CPU Override manual 1.20v
> LLC Mode 2
> 52 P-core
> 40 E-core
> 41- Ring
> Multi score- was 29228,just took screen while running
> DDR4 Dual Rank 32GB Gear 1 3866 SA-1.20v
> Msi Pro z-690-A


Wow, the 12900K I received can't even do that below 1.30V VCore
At 1.20V VCCSA and 1.20V VDDQ the highest I can boot in gear 1 with dual rank B-die is DDR4-3600
Same MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4, and core temps at 1.20V VCore are well below 80C on all cores

It couldn't even pass at 51 P / 39 E with this voltage, but it looks like 50 P / 38 E is stable at that VCore and LLC for me.
Batch number is V135I200


----------



## marti69

need help with corsair dominator ddr5 5200 cl 38 my board is maximus z690 hero cant oc rams to 5400mhz even if raised ram voltages to 1.35...any advice ?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Arni90 said:


> Wow, the 12900K I received can't even do that below 1.30V VCore
> At 1.20V VCCSA and 1.20V VDDQ the highest I can boot in gear 1 with dual rank B-die is DDR4-3600
> Same MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4, and core temps at 1.20V VCore are well below 80C on all cores
> 
> It couldn't even pass at 51 P / 39 E with this voltage, but it looks like 50 P / 38 E is stable at that VCore and LLC for me.
> Batch number is V135I200


What are you cooling it with?


----------



## mattxx88

marti69 said:


> need help with corsair dominator ddr5 5200 cl 38 my board is maximus z690 hero cant oc rams to 5400mhz even if raised ram voltages to 1.35...any advice ?


Rise to 1.4 both vdd and vddq


----------



## gerardfraser

Arni90 said:


> Wow, the 12900K I received can't even do that below 1.30V VCore
> At 1.20V VCCSA and 1.20V VDDQ the highest I can boot in gear 1 with dual rank B-die is DDR4-3600
> Same MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4, and core temps at 1.20V VCore are well below 80C on all cores
> 
> It couldn't even pass at 51 P / 39 E with this voltage, but it looks like 50 P / 38 E is stable at that VCore and LLC for me.
> Batch number is V135I200


For my Dual Rank Gear 1 can do CL14 4000+Mhz with higher SA Voltage of 1.45v *12900K Batch* *# V136J515*

Sub timing not adjusted,I play PC Games at 4K,so Ram speed is not important to me
* *


----------



## Arni90

0451 said:


> What are you cooling it with?


Alphacool Eisblock XPX and a MO-RA3


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Arni90 said:


> Alphacool Eisblock XPX and a MO-RA3


Have you removed your block and checked the mounting pressure? All the paste should be smooshed out. I feel like your temps should be much better.


----------



## Nikos4Life

Quite possible someone has already asked this but:

I am using 12900K + Asus extreme + 3090 and:

1xM2 in PCIe 5.0 slot

2xM2 in 4.0 slots

1xM2 using ASUS DIMM2 slot

My GPU is running accordingly to GPUZ in 4.0 @8x.

Did I misunderstood ASUS manual? Or [email protected] should be possible?

I read in the manual the following:

“M.2_1 shares bandwidth with PCIEX16(G5)_2. When M.2_1 is enabled, PCIEX16(G5)_2 will be disabled.”









Can I expect worse performance or should it be as if it was running [email protected]?

I can remove one M2 if needed but I can not find anything related to the GPU link.


----------



## marti69

mattxx88 said:


> Rise to 1.4 both vdd and vddq


dosnt seem to help much at 1.43v ob both i hardly get 5400mhz anything above wont boot whats wrong with corsair ddr5 ?


----------



## Arni90

0451 said:


> Have you removed your block and checked the mounting pressure? All the paste should be smooshed out. I feel like your temps should be much better.


You might be mixing me up with @gerardfraser, my temps are more than 10C lower than his at 1.20V VCore with P-cores at 50 and E-cores at 40

Raising PLL for VCore and Ring helped ever so slightly, but I still need 1.28V VCore at LLC2 (comparable to LLC7 on ASUS) to pass 5.2 GHz continuously in R23


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Nikos4Life said:


> Quite possible someone has already asked this but:
> 
> I am using 12900K + Asus extreme + 3090 and:
> 
> 1xM2 in PCIe 5.0 slot
> 
> 2xM2 in 4.0 slots
> 
> 1xM2 using ASUS DIMM2 slot
> 
> My GPU is running accordingly to GPUZ in 4.0 @8x.
> 
> Did I misunderstood ASUS manual? Or [email protected] should be possible?
> 
> I read in the manual the following:
> 
> “M.2_1 shares bandwidth with PCIEX16(G5)_2. When M.2_1 is enabled, PCIEX16(G5)_2 will be disabled.”
> View attachment 2533801
> 
> 
> Can I expect worse performance or should it be as if it was running [email protected]?
> 
> I can remove one M2 if needed but I can not find anything related to the GPU link.


I understood the same...
And my 3080 is [email protected] too... LOL.


----------



## D-EJ915

Nikos4Life said:


> Quite possible someone has already asked this but:
> 
> I am using 12900K + Asus extreme + 3090 and:
> 
> 1xM2 in PCIe 5.0 slot
> 
> 2xM2 in 4.0 slots
> 
> 1xM2 using ASUS DIMM2 slot
> 
> My GPU is running accordingly to GPUZ in 4.0 @8x.
> 
> Did I misunderstood ASUS manual? Or [email protected] should be possible?
> 
> I read in the manual the following:
> 
> “M.2_1 shares bandwidth with PCIEX16(G5)_2. When M.2_1 is enabled, PCIEX16(G5)_2 will be disabled.”
> 
> Can I expect worse performance or should it be as if it was running [email protected]?
> 
> I can remove one M2 if needed but I can not find anything related to the GPU link.


M.2_1 says it uses bandwidth from x16_2 so it would be the same if you filled x16_2 which will set x16_1 to x8 bandwidth.

M.2_2 is the spare x4 Gen4 lanes from the CPU.


----------



## Falkentyne

Arni90 said:


> You might be mixing me up with @gerardfraser, my temps are more than 10C lower than his at 1.20V VCore with P-cores at 50 and E-cores at 40
> 
> Raising PLL for VCore and Ring helped ever so slightly, but I still need 1.28V VCore at LLC2 (comparable to LLC7 on ASUS) to pass 5.2 GHz continuously in R23


What did you raise PLL for core and ring to?
How exactly did that help?


----------



## sugi0lover

This is my ddr5 ram cover which my friend made it for me. He's an engineer and spent about USD 500 to make it.


----------



## acoustic

I have a terrible chip. That is all.

Halo Infinite is a god-tier stress test


----------



## gerardfraser

acoustic said:


> I have a terrible chip. That is all.
> 
> Halo Infinite is a god-tier stress test


Yeah but can you hit 180+ Watts playing Shadow Of The Tomb Raider. I love it


----------



## 911gt3

acoustic said:


> I have a terrible chip. That is all.
> 
> Halo Infinite is a god-tier stress test


Mines only SP81, tempted to roll the dice on another.


----------



## mattskiiau

morph. said:


> Was your batch made in Vietnam or China my 12900k pre-order still looks to be in limbo might just pull the trigger with pccg and cancel the pre-order...


I bought mine when it was in stock on monday, got it a few days later. 
Mines made in china


----------



## Arni90

Falkentyne said:


> What did you raise PLL for core and ring to?
> How exactly did that help?


1.005V for both

It allowed me to go from 1.30V to 1.28V in R23 while retaining stability


----------



## Falkentyne

Arni90 said:


> 1.005V for both
> 
> It allowed me to go from 1.30V to 1.28V in R23 while retaining stability


Nice find.
I think 1.020v helped me slightly too but it's hard to say. Since I'm at basically 100C anyway when trying to run stockfish when overclocked. (5.2 ghz all cores enabled (E cores x37, Ring x36) with Stockfish needs about 1.270v load and is 100C or slightly higher (!), while 5.2 ghz with P-cores only (ring x48) needs about 1.261v-1.270v load.
Stockfish is much easier to run at 5.1 ghz all cores (I forgot the vmin though).

My tests are with Stockfish Chess engine since I use stockfish for studying and stockfish is a very heavy AVX2/BMI2 load. (not as heavy as Prime95 30.7 build9 small FFT FMA3..that's just outrageous).

In my tests, if I can pass stockfish (all threads) without BSOD, I can also pass OCCT CPU tests easily also (SSE and AVX).
But for gaming and cinebench, I can get away with 40mv lower vcore than Stockfish needs!


----------



## Arni90

Falkentyne said:


> Nice find.
> I think 1.020v helped me slightly too but it's hard to say. Since I'm at basically 100C anyway when trying to run stockfish when overclocked. (5.2 ghz all cores enabled (E cores x37, Ring x36) with Stockfish needs about 1.270v load and is 100C or slightly higher (!), while 5.2 ghz with P-cores only (ring x48) needs about 1.261v-1.270v load.
> Stockfish is much easier to run at 5.1 ghz all cores (I forgot the vmin though).
> 
> My tests are with Stockfish Chess engine since I use stockfish for studying and stockfish is a very heavy AVX2/BMI2 load. (not as heavy as Prime95 30.7 build9 small FFT FMA3..that's just outrageous).
> 
> In my tests, if I can pass stockfish (all threads) without BSOD, I can also pass OCCT CPU tests easily also (SSE and AVX).
> But for gaming and cinebench, I can get away with 40mv lower vcore than Stockfish needs!


Raising PLL was based on your recommendation a few days ago actually.

At any rate, what prompted this was how much more voltage I need to do the same benchmark as gerardfraser, and my conclusion is that I have a significantly worse bin than he does.

My 12900K won't even POST dual rank B-die above 3733, and 3733 will only post occasionally.


----------



## acoustic

gerardfraser said:


> Yeah but can you hit 180+ Watts playing Shadow Of The Tomb Raider. I love it





911gt3 said:


> Mines only SP81, tempted to roll the dice on another.


It seems that I need 1.45v SA to run 4000CL15 GR1 game stable. I can pass TM5 and HCI MemTestPro @ 1.31v, but Halo Infinite will CTD or hard-lock the PC at anything below 1.45v. I crashed last night at 1.425v, bumped to 1.45v and just went through an entire match which is the first time I've done that since I bought the damn chip LOL.

Honestly don't feel like I'm demanding a lot to run 4000 CL15 in Gear1 here. I understand it's a 12700K and thus the binning was not going to be in my favor, but this is an atrocious IMC if this is really the case..

I'm not sure how these "newer" (RKL and ADL) chips handle SA voltage. Is 1.45v daily safe?


----------



## sugi0lover

*Just testing linx to see gflops
12900k 5.3/4.3/4.3 + 6400c301t
residual is not right... 







*


----------



## skullbringer

sugi0lover said:


> *Just testing linx to see gflops
> 12900k 5.3/4.3/4.3 + 6400c301t
> residual is not right...
> View attachment 2533857
> *


Can this version of LinX actually use the Ecore properly? 
I've noticed with LinpackXtreme 1.1.5 that with E cores off it performs slightly better, ~625 GFlops at 51/48 in 10GB, problem size 35000


----------



## sugi0lover

skullbringer said:


> Can this version of LinX actually use the Ecore properly?
> I've noticed with LinpackXtreme 1.1.5 that with E cores off it performs slightly better, ~625 GFlops at 51/48 in 10GB, problem size 35000


Yes. If i turn e cores off, aroud 640 gflops.


----------



## Forsaken1

*GIGABYTE’s DRM fix tool.





"Enjoy The Game!" with Intel® 12th Gen. Processors featuring GIGABYTE’s DRM fix tool | News - GIGABYTE Global


Nov. 19th, 2021 –Gigabyte Technology, one of the top global manufacturers of motherboards, graphics cards, and hardware solutions, announced today the...




www.gigabyte.com




*


----------



## cstkl1

Forsaken1 said:


> *GIGABYTE’s DRM fix tool.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Enjoy The Game!" with Intel® 12th Gen. Processors featuring GIGABYTE’s DRM fix tool | News - GIGABYTE Global
> 
> 
> Nov. 19th, 2021 –Gigabyte Technology, one of the top global manufacturers of motherboards, graphics cards, and hardware solutions, announced today the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.gigabyte.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


= asus legacy game scroll lock


----------



## gtz

Just curious, could dual 420mm rads tame this little beast. Thinking of getting one but just curious if I could do a all core 5.3 on the big cores under heavy loads.


----------



## cstkl1

gtz said:


> Just curious, could dual 420mm rads tame this little beast. Thinking of getting one but just curious if I could do a all core 5.3 on the big cores under heavy loads.


5.3 on any sp i think direct die is the answer to that. the situation almost similar to cml where most ppl were 51-52 and then direct die.. 53-54 daily.


----------



## sugi0lover

ran 3DMark FireStrike, will some other 3DMark tests later









I scored 47 449 in Fire Strike


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## Carillo

Hi 
Is there anyone who can answer the relationship between the cpu's IMC and MC voltage when using DDR4? I read a place that someone thought that MC corresponded to IO voltage, and then I think that 1.7v dram like i use.. would have killed my IMC quite quickly ... But it is still alive and well ?


----------



## shamino1978

Carillo said:


> Hi
> Is there anyone who can answer the relationship between the cpu's IMC and MC voltage when using DDR4? I read a place that someone thought that MC corresponded to IO voltage, and then I think that 1.7v dram like i use.. would have killed my IMC quite quickly ... But it is still alive and well ?


Dram voltage has always been fed to the cpu since forever, its only on ddr5 that its not so the confusion is only caused by these new terminologies.


----------



## Carillo

shamino1978 said:


> Dram voltage has always been fed to the cpu since forever, its only on ddr5 that its not so the confusion is only caused by these new terminologies.


 Thanks


----------



## shamino1978

Carillo said:


> Thanks


Well a lil exagerated heh. Since the imc , but even before that its fed to the northbridge


----------



## sniperpowa

Having strange issue on z690 strix-a d4 my gpu is only able to run in x8 mode. Bios is set to where it should run x16. I have 1 m.2 in m.2-1 slot. Should have 20 lanes if I’m correct so I should be in x16. Under system agent is says x8 can’t figure out how to get x16 never had this problem before don’t know if it’s a bios issue or what.


----------



## ObviousCough

sniperpowa said:


> Having strange issue on z690 strix-a d4 my gpu is only able to run in x8 mode. Bios is set to where it should run x16. I have 1 m.2 in m.2-1 slot. Should have 20 lanes if I’m correct so I should be in x16. Under system agent is says x8 can’t figure out how to get x16 never had this problem before don’t know if it’s a bios issue or what.


Asus forces you to x8 mode when using M.2_1


----------



## sniperpowa

ObviousCough said:


> Asus forces you to x8 mode when using M.2_1


Never had that happen on z590


----------



## sniperpowa

ObviousCough said:


> Asus forces you to x8 mode when using M.2_1


I moved it to second slot still stuck in x8 lol. Edit I even took the ssd out and have nothing but 1 gpu in the first slot pcie5.0 slot. Bios says x8. I have it in auto mode not x8 x8. Says full pcie x16 but is stuck in x8.


----------



## MaghX

I have occupied m2_1, m2_3 and m2_4, still x16 for gpu on strix-a


----------



## Falkentyne

sniperpowa said:


> I moved it to second slot still stuck in x8 lol. Edit I even took the ssd out and have nothing but 1 gpu in the first slot pcie5.0 slot. Bios says x8. I have it in auto mode not x8 x8. Says full pcie x16 but is stuck in x8.


Do you have anything in the second PCIE slot? Even a x1 soundcard will drop the GPU to x8. (to avoid that, put x1 soundcards in the x4 slot).

Remove the GPU.
Spray Deoxit D5 into the slot. Clean GPU pins with Deoxit D5.
If you have no Deoxit, clean the pins as best you can with the purest isopropyl you have.
Reinsert the GPU and make sure it's completely inserted all the way firmly and evenly.
Check PCIE link speed.


----------



## MaghX

Falkentyne said:


> Do you have anything in the second PCIE slot? Even a x1 soundcard will drop the GPU to x8


Not in this case, second pcie slot is connected to chipset so x16 is always available for gpu.
Clean pins is a good idea


----------



## Falkentyne

MaghX said:


> Not in this case, second pcie slot is connected to chipset so x16 is always available for gpu.
> Clean pins is a good idea


I had my 3090 FE at x4 once because I did a "framechasers" job inserting the card in the slot.
When I did a Falkentyne job it was back at x16.


----------



## fray_bentos

WebsterRKL said:


> And now we pause Alder Lake for a moment - for something truly beautiful.
> 
> Every Highly-Overclocked "typewriter build" deserves a premium keyboard.
> 
> Just arrived today - from heaven.  $400USD with overnight.
> 
> View attachment 2533436
> 
> View attachment 2533437
> View attachment 2533438
> View attachment 2533439
> View attachment 2533440
> View attachment 2533441


I'd end up killing someone if I was forced to use that. No print screen, home, end, up, down, left, or right (without using an alt key), control in the wrong place/missing and a tiny return key. No thanks.


----------



## acoustic

Didn't hear anything, but what are we considering "safe" system agent voltages? It looks like I'm gonna have to run 1.45v SA for 4000cl15 gr1 and I'm a little concerned about the SA being so high

Ok I'm over it. Crashes even at 1.45v .. bringing all this **** back to microcenter tomorrow. I'm done lol


----------



## Benni231990

guys what frequenz do you use for clock by core?

i use:

P1-2 / 5,4GHZ
P3-4 / 5.3GHZ
P5-6 / 5,2GHZ
P7-8 / 5,1GHZ

E1-8 / 4,1GHZ

vcore is 1,341

SP 83


----------



## sniperpowa

Falkentyne said:


> Do you have anything in the second PCIE slot? Even a x1 soundcard will drop the GPU to x8. (to avoid that, put x1 soundcards in the x4 slot).
> 
> Remove the GPU.
> Spray Deoxit D5 into the slot. Clean GPU pins with Deoxit D5.
> If you have no Deoxit, clean the pins as best you can with the purest isopropyl you have.
> Reinsert the GPU and make sure it's completely inserted all the way firmly and evenly.
> Check PCIE link speed.


I’ll try the cleaning. No I don’t have anything connected to this board.


----------



## mattskiiau

cstkl1 said:


> = asus legacy game scroll lock


I don't have a scroll lock key on my KB, what now?


----------



## D-EJ915

mattskiiau said:


> I don't have a scroll lock key on my KB, what now?


complain to intel who had the genius idea to do this method lol Why Can Digital Rights Management (DRM) Crash Some Games on 12th Gen...

on-screen keyboard should have it though (osk.exe) you can run from windows-r box.


----------



## mattskiiau

D-EJ915 said:


> (osk.exe)


Thanks for the tip! Can't believe I didn't think of that.


----------



## dante`afk

apex users: is the second lower PCIe slot compatible with running a 3090? my card does not fit into the upper because of active backplate and the huge motherboard passive cool frame below the CPU is blocking it.

all of my 3 PSUs are tripping if I insert my card on the bottom slot and no successful boot


/edit - nvm figured it out, bykski block shorted my card lul.


----------



## D-EJ915

dante`afk said:


> apex users: is the second lower PCIe slot compatible with running a 3090? my card does not fit into the upper because of active backplate and the huge motherboard passive cool frame below the CPU is blocking it.
> 
> all of my 3 PSUs are tripping if I insert my card on the bottom slot and no successful boot


It works fine it will just be x8 gen4 instead of x16


----------



## acoustic

0003 BIOS for ASUS TUF D4 dropped my required SA significantly.. went from crashing in Halo Infinite @ 1.45v SA to 2hr stable so far at 1.38v. may be able to go lower.. was previously running 0707 after failure to find stability on 0002 -- highly recommend anyone having issues stabilizing 4000+ gr1 to try the new bios


----------



## Exilon

So that means you're running 4000 g1 successfully now then?


----------



## Dingdong630

Anyone knows where I can get asus oc tool?


----------



## GtiJason

acoustic said:


> 0003 BIOS for ASUS TUF D4 dropped my required SA significantly.. went from crashing in Halo Infinite @ 1.45v SA to 2hr stable so far at 1.38v. may be able to go lower.. was previously running 0707 after failure to find stability on 0002 -- highly recommend anyone having issues stabilizing 4000+ gr1 to try the new bios


I'm having the exact opposite happening to me on 0003. I'm 12 hours in and I'm pretty sure I just went through each and every actually binned (since z370, A2 pcb, DR and SR) B Die I own.
The only kit I have had any luck with is the one good non G.Skill kit I have, the SR 4000c14-15 @ 1.55v OLOY RGB Blade bios 0707. All of my other kits are G.Skill and all are fairly high xmp bins, all of which easily do 4800c14-13, 5066c15 and 4220c12-11 (SR) and 3900c12-11-18-180-1T - 4k+ Cold IMC MAX on RKL (DR)
I can't even boot xmp on Gear auto,1,2 SR 4000c15, 4133c17, 4400c16, 4600c19, 4800c17 or DR 4000c16-19, 4266c17-18 and 4400c17-18 DR on this new bios
Must be an error by the guy behid the keyboard thing or G.Skill thing. Obviously I have flashed and reflashed the bios and before you go and say the memory kits are degraded I can promise you they are not. Even my first kit of 3600c16 Nov 2015 A0 RJ V BDie still does 4133c12 on MOCF at 1.895v 1.25v SA 1.3v IO, exact same as the day I figured it out in 2016
Quick edit, the last 2 hours I went to chilled water 13-14C H2O temps to help the IMC out and no change
I have LN2 waiting but it is intended for Team Cup and I only have 25L or so
Not complaining, just sharing my exp. but my board may have an issue. It takes ungodly long to post or boot no matter what


----------



## GtiJason

Dingdong630 said:


> Anyone knows where I can get asus oc tool?











Asus Tools


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## Carillo

acoustic said:


> 0003 BIOS for ASUS TUF D4 dropped my required SA significantly.. went from crashing in Halo Infinite @ 1.45v SA to 2hr stable so far at 1.38v. may be able to go lower.. was previously running 0707 after failure to find stability on 0002 -- highly recommend anyone having issues stabilizing 4000+ gr1 to try the new bios


Agree! 4000mhz++ 1T was not even able to boot on Strix using 0707, but now 4133 14.14.14.28 1T gear 1 is HCI stable using 0003.


----------



## mongoled

Carillo said:


> Agree! 4000mhz++ 1T was not even able to boot on Strix using 0707, but now 4133 14.14.14.28 1T gear 1 is HCI stable using 0003.


Very nice


----------



## owikh84

Carillo said:


> Agree! 4000mhz++ 1T was not even able to boot on Strix using 0707, but now 4133 14.14.14.28 1T gear 1 is HCI stable using 0003.


Nice! Mind to share your dram voltage, SA, VDDQ?


----------



## Dingdong630

GtiJason said:


> Asus Tools
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


Thx


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I have my extreme running with m2-1, m2-2 and m2-3 so I think it's correct that my 3080 is running @gen4 x8... Right?


----------



## acoustic

GtiJason said:


> I'm having the exact opposite happening to me on 0003. I'm 12 hours in and I'm pretty sure I just went through each and every actually binned (since z370, A2 pcb, DR and SR) B Die I own.
> The only kit I have had any luck with is the one good non G.Skill kit I have, the SR 4000c14-15 @ 1.55v OLOY RGB Blade bios 0707. All of my other kits are G.Skill and all are fairly high xmp bins, all of which easily do 4800c14-13, 5066c15 and 4220c12-11 (SR) and 3900c12-11-18-180-1T - 4k+ Cold IMC MAX on RKL (DR)
> I can't even boot xmp on Gear auto,1,2 SR 4000c15, 4133c17, 4400c16, 4600c19, 4800c17 or DR 4000c16-19, 4266c17-18 and 4400c17-18 DR on this new bios
> Must be an error by the guy behid the keyboard thing or G.Skill thing. Obviously I have flashed and reflashed the bios and before you go and say the memory kits are degraded I can promise you they are not. Even my first kit of 3600c16 Nov 2015 A0 RJ V BDie still does 4133c12 on MOCF at 1.895v 1.25v SA 1.3v IO, exact same as the day I figured it out in 2016
> Quick edit, the last 2 hours I went to chilled water 13-14C H2O temps to help the IMC out and no change
> I have LN2 waiting but it is intended for Team Cup and I only have 25L or so
> Not complaining, just sharing my exp. but my board may have an issue. It takes ungodly long to post or boot no matter what


Hmm .. I think you may have an IMC issue. I'm assuming you're manually setting your ODTs? I have noticed that the TUF D4 (maybe this applies to the STRIX as well) is terrible at training ODTs. I manually set to 80-60-60 and it greatly helped stability. I go from an error in HCI MemTestPro in first 2min to no errors at 800% right now (it's still running as I type this). The Auto settings on these DDR4 boards are atrocious .. I've been trying to manually set everything as much as I can, within my knowledge.

I'm running:

12700K @ 5.1 P / 3.7 E / 3.6 Cache @ 1.325v LLC5 -- 1.55 VDIMM / 1.55V VDDT / 1.38V SA -- GSKILL Royal 4000CL16 @ 1.4 XMP @ 400015-15-15-30 / 65535 tREFI / with a couple tuned secondary and tertiary timings. Still in the process of testing.



Carillo said:


> Agree! 4000mhz++ 1T was not even able to boot on Strix using 0707, but now 4133 14.14.14.28 1T gear 1 is HCI stable using 0003.


Nice! I may try getting down to 1T, but I couldn't get it to POST on 0707 or 0002! May have to give it another whirl.



owikh84 said:


> Nice! Mind to share your dram voltage, SA, VDDQ?


I shared mine above. I believe I have a subpar IMC, but this 0003 BIOS has been a godsend for reducing SA voltage.


----------



## acoustic

Exilon said:


> So that means you're running 4000 g1 successfully now then?


Sorry, missed this post!

Yes! 4000 GR1 very stable. I am going to find my minimum SA voltage for this setting and then work from there. As I mentioned previously (and was getting so frustrated that I was about to refund the chip and motherboard!) I was having issues with Halo Infinite even at 1.45v SA. No matter what I did, I simply could not stabilize 4000 GR1. I had even dropped down to 3866 and was still having issues. The strangest part is that my stress-tests were passing, but I couldn't play one full match of Halo Infinite. Thus far, seems like a great game for stress-testing an OC! I get very good CPU wattage pull while playing and it seems to stress the IMC as well.


----------



## asdkj1740

RobertoSampaio said:


> I have my extreme running with m2-1, m2-2 and m2-3 so I think it's correct that my 3080 is running @gen4 x8... Right?


you can check that on gpuz. but yes, it should be gen5x8 in gen4x8 mode.


----------



## Carillo

owikh84 said:


> Nice! Mind to share your dram voltage, SA, VDDQ?


SA-- 1,34V, VVDQ-- Auto( will check when i get home) SP91 chip

EDIT : 1,60V dram


----------



## kmellz

Was having some random reboots, initially thought it was the cpu, but it seems it might have been the memory.
Running 4100mhz gear 1 atm and no reboots so far, increased the cpu to 51 p cores again and we'll see if it crashes.
Also updated to the new beta for d4 strix, so if everything is stable I'm gonna give higher speed a try again!


----------



## sugi0lover

all 3DMark tests result with 12900K + RTX 3090

[FireStrike Normal]








I scored 47 334 in Fire Strike


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com













[FireStrike Extreme]








I scored 27 677 in Fire Strike Extreme


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com












[FireStrike Ultra]








I scored 15 032 in Fire Strike Ultra


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com













[Time Spy Normal]








I scored 23 020 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com













[Time Spy Extreme]








I scored 11 635 in Time Spy Extreme


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com













[Wild Life Normal]








I scored 135 044 in Wild Life


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com













[Wild Life Extreme]








I scored 52 226 in Wild Life Extreme


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com













[Night Raid]








I scored 96 891 in Night Raid


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com













[CPU Profile]








I scored 0 in CPU Profile


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## sniperpowa

Falkentyne said:


> Plus the best boards to buy right now are all DDR5 boards.
> Do any of the DDR4 boards have die sense (VR VOUT)?
> And some don't even have a post code or safe boot button...or have one but not the other...


I have a z690 apex but ram is not available so im stuck on a ddr4 strix. Kind of dont have options lol


----------



## sniperpowa

acoustic said:


> 0003 BIOS for ASUS TUF D4 dropped my required SA significantly.. went from crashing in Halo Infinite @ 1.45v SA to 2hr stable so far at 1.38v. may be able to go lower.. was previously running 0707 after failure to find stability on 0002 -- highly recommend anyone having issues stabilizing 4000+ gr1 to try the new bios


Where is this bios?


----------



## eeroo94

sniperpowa said:


> Where is this bios?











[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


Good luck getting replacement DDR5. I would seriously consider picking up a DDR4 board and memory. For all you know the problem could be with the board, this way you rule everything out. Also, stupid question but was the memory in question on the QVL? Is there a new BIOS? Have you tried the...




www.overclock.net


----------



## SoldierRBT

How do I know if this is good IMC? 6000C32 (Samsung profile) needs 1.05v SA 1.175v MC. Is there any other voltage related to IMC?


----------



## cstkl1

SoldierRBT said:


> How do I know if this is good IMC? 6000C32 (Samsung profile) needs 1.05v SA 1.175v MC. Is there any other voltage related to IMC?
> View attachment 2534042


since adl has rkl traits
so imc quality
and ram chipset quality at play bro


----------



## sugi0lover

Good work from my friend with his sp97 12900k and hynix 4800c40 ram!


----------



## neteng101

Think I have my daily OC settings... 5.0P, 4.0E, 4.3R with memory at 3400-18-1N G1. Can't get the 4 sticks to even boot at 3600 Gear 1, but 3400 allows me to get decent tight timings for the budget RAM I have. 5.1P, 4.0E, 4.5R boots but looks like I would need to add enough voltage that makes it not feasible to push further, trying to keep power draw in check for CPU cooling. Core 1.275V E-Core 1.25V SA on Auto, could probably drop SA to 1.30V too.


----------



## cptclutch

Been trying to look up the best lower cost DDR4 board and it seems like the MSI Pro is the way to go? The jump to the Strix is over 100$ and I'm trying to save money with the swap from my 10900k. Would be pairing it with a 12700k and looking to OC a bit as I have a custom loop. Could also do the 12600k with the Strix but I'd imagine nobody here would be recommending that haha


----------



## acoustic

cptclutch said:


> Been trying to look up the best lower cost DDR4 board and it seems like the MSI Pro is the way to go? The jump to the Strix is over 100$ and I'm trying to save money with the swap from my 10900k. Would be pairing it with a 12700k and looking to OC a bit as I have a custom loop. Could also do the 12600k with the Strix but I'd imagine nobody here would be recommending that haha


You could go with the TUF maybe? I'm running one.. don't see much difference. Both are crap boards with minimal features.


----------



## kingofblog

Can a 12900k running p95-small-AVX2 (P-core only) be cooled with only ambient methods? Some reviews say the i9 already throttles in CineBench, and others claim it can be undervolted 100 mV. My SP is 78 for what its worth. I still don't have a working LGA1700 heatsink to test for myself.


----------



## morph.

sugi0lover said:


> all 3DMark tests result with 12900K + RTX 3090
> 
> [FireStrike Normal]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 47 334 in Fire Strike
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534012
> 
> 
> [FireStrike Extreme]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 27 677 in Fire Strike Extreme
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534014
> 
> [FireStrike Ultra]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 15 032 in Fire Strike Ultra
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534015
> 
> 
> [Time Spy Normal]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 23 020 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534016
> 
> 
> [Time Spy Extreme]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 11 635 in Time Spy Extreme
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534017
> 
> 
> [Wild Life Normal]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 135 044 in Wild Life
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534018
> 
> 
> [Wild Life Extreme]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 52 226 in Wild Life Extreme
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534019
> 
> 
> [Night Raid]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 96 891 in Night Raid
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534020
> 
> 
> [CPU Profile]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 0 in CPU Profile
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534021


Very nice! Just curious what OC method are you doing? I'm assuming adaptive cf curve with per core usage? I might have to pick your brain on it once I get my hands on ddr5 and redo my loop.


----------



## sugi0lover

morph. said:


> Very nice! Just curious what OC method are you doing? I'm assuming adaptive cf curve with per core usage? I might have to pick your brain on it once I get my hands on ddr5 and redo my loop.


Thanks for your comment! I use the traditional method, fixed voltages per all cores fixed. I uploaded my profile(cmo file) somewhere here, so you can see the bios setting if you use Apex.
or you can check my video and see bios setup.


----------



## mattskiiau

sugi0lover said:


> fixed voltages per all cores fixed.


Very nice! 
Do you run this voltage/LLC/ghz as your daily settings or do you dial it down?


----------



## sugi0lover

mattskiiau said:


> Very nice!
> Do you run this voltage/LLC/ghz as your daily settings or do you dial it down?


For 5.5ghz daily use, i put 1.33v (llc7) to be conservative.


----------



## mattskiiau

sugi0lover said:


> (llc7)


I thought LLC7 was nasty. 
Either way I am jealous!


----------



## Arni90

cptclutch said:


> Been trying to look up the best lower cost DDR4 board and it seems like the MSI Pro is the way to go? The jump to the Strix is over 100$ and I'm trying to save money with the swap from my 10900k. Would be pairing it with a 12700k and looking to OC a bit as I have a custom loop. Could also do the 12600k with the Strix but I'd imagine nobody here would be recommending that haha


The MSI Pro is pretty solid, you'll never see the VRM overheat and the DDR4 memory overclocking seems to be similar to more expensive MSI variants


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Please support skatterbencher’s channel since he’s the only youtuber that effectively teaches overclocking.


----------



## Techie007

mattskiiau said:


> sugi0lover said:
> 
> 
> 
> (llc7)
> 
> 
> 
> I thought LLC7 was nasty.
Click to expand...

For ASUS, LLC7 is aggressive. For MSI, it is relaxed.


----------



## MikeS3000

Anybody on here upgrade from a Ryzen 5000 processor? I'm pretty happy with my 5900x but getting the itch to play around with new hardware. Any tangible benefits to buying a 12900k?


----------



## gerardfraser

MikeS3000 said:


> Anybody on here upgrade from a Ryzen 5000 processor? I'm pretty happy with my 5900x but getting the itch to play around with new hardware. Any tangible benefits to buying a 12900k?


I went from AMD 5800X to Intel 10850K to 12900K and for my use case no difference at all in PC Gaming at 4K,editing video or just using 7Zip. 
Just like buying new stuff. I do run my 12900K @ 5400Mhz and it is great for the E-Peen monster growth but still no difference in anything I can notice.


----------



## neteng101

0451 said:


> Please support skatterbencher’s channel since he’s the only youtuber that effectively teaches overclocking.


So the one thing I didn't get out of that is undervolting - it would seem my overclock is actually an undervolt - given what he discovered for the VF curve of the 12700k I'm way below. Did not pick a mode, left it on Auto and I believe the BIOS is operating in override mode since the Vcore is locked in and only adjusts depending on load for LLC.

I'm guessing that's what Adaptive+Offset is for - negative offset for voltage. Should the Vcore be set to a value before the offset is applied in this instance? In his example the Vcore would then be set to something higher than 1.36V, and the offset can be set to something like -0.1V at the max OC ratio you'd run at what Vcore adaptive is set to minus 0.1V?


----------



## MikeS3000

gerardfraser said:


> I went from AMD 5800X to Intel 10850K to 12900K and for my use case no difference at all in PC Gaming at 4K,editing video or just using 7Zip.
> Just like buying new stuff. I do run my 12900K @ 5400Mhz and it is great for the E-Peen monster growth but still no difference in anything I can notice.


I hear ya. It's almost like a small rental fee if you sell your old hardware as the recent hardware holds it value pretty well. My wife is looking for a Christmas gift for me so maybe it's time to switch back to team blue.


----------



## acoustic

Back to crashing every 4min in Halo Infinite - cannot figure out what the hell this chip wants!!! Very frustrating. Same settings that worked fine when I flashed 0003 bios now are doing the crashing thing.

This is getting old tbh. 4000 Gear1 should not be this much of an issue .. nor should we be receiving IMCs this bad in quality..


----------



## fray_bentos

acoustic said:


> Back to crashing every 4min in Halo Infinite - cannot figure out what the hell this chip wants!!! Very frustrating. Same settings that worked fine when I flashed 0003 bios now are doing the crashing thing.
> 
> This is getting old tbh. 4000 Gear1 should not be this much of an issue .. nor should we be receiving IMCs this bad in quality..


Shouldn't it? I thought the ADL IMC design/characteristics are more RKL-like than CML-like.


----------



## acoustic

fray_bentos said:


> Shouldn't it? I thought the ADL IMC design/characteristics are more RKL-like than CML-like.


Yes they are very much RKL-like ; but I don't get the inconsistency. I had GR1 1800% HCI MemTestPro stable, and now it's not stable anymore despite matching my timings back up and retraining to get it exactly the same. Ton of inconsistency which may be due to the immature BIOS/platform.. There seems to be too large of a range in quality of IMC, though .. 4000 should be fairly standard at this late in DDR4s lifespan in my opinion, and after maturity of the RKL IMC. I understand why RKL was the way it is, as it was the first iteration of what we see on ADL -- but that's why I'm a bit disappointed/frustrated at what I'm struggling with here.


----------



## sugi0lover

Techie007 said:


> For ASUS, LLC7 is aggressive. For MSI, it is relaxed.


Thanks for the info. What llc do you recommend?


----------



## Falkentyne

neteng101 said:


> So the one thing I didn't get out of that is undervolting - it would seem my overclock is actually an undervolt - given what he discovered for the VF curve of the 12700k I'm way below. Did not pick a mode, left it on Auto and I believe the BIOS is operating in override mode since the Vcore is locked in and only adjusts depending on load for LLC.
> 
> I'm guessing that's what Adaptive+Offset is for - negative offset for voltage. Should the Vcore be set to a value before the offset is applied in this instance? In his example the Vcore would then be set to something higher than 1.36V, and the offset can be set to something like -0.1V at the max OC ratio you'd run at what Vcore adaptive is set to minus 0.1V?


There are three things here.
1) CPU's stock voltage.
2) Vmin.
3) Undervolt.

Apparently, the CPU's "stock voltage" is what the CPU requests at load, (at a given workload), which depends on some magical balance between the CPU's own base VID (related to the v/f points), AC/DC Loadline settings, which are resistance values in milliohms (or POSSIBLY _ONLY_ the AC Loadline setting--this still needs to be determined), the Loadline Calibration setting (a resistance value in milliohms), and the VF point or interpolated V/F point is for the frequency in question, combined with Thermal velocity boost voltage optimizations being enabled (TVB).

What determines whether the CPU's "stock" load voltage is correct seems to be the "CEP IA" setting (Current Excrusion Protection).. CEP seems to want the CPU's load voltage to be no lower than 10mv of the V/F point for that frequency. If the load voltage is lower, you have "too much" vdroop and CEP will "EDP" throttle you (phantom throttling) to limit your current draw as CEP "thinks" the CPU is getting too little vcore.

CEP can apparently follow what you set manual offsets to, on the V/F curve, since CEP only cares about the V/F points and the loadlines which tries to 'reach' the V/F point in question.

Vmin is the absolute MINIMUM load voltage required for stability. The problem with vmin is this depends on your workload. Vmin for something like Stockfish chess engine may be 1.195v @ 5.1 ghz--any lower and you get a random BSOD, while vmin for Cinebench R23 30 minute loop may be 1.160v.

Your "guardband" is the voltage distance between the "CEP" setting it wants, and the vmin of your designated workload.
Now one could say that your true guardband is the worst case scenario between the vmin of the heaviest workload you can apply on the CPU (e.g. Prime95 30.7 build 9, Small FFT AVX2 (FMA3), which is the ADL compatible version), and the CEP setting at which it won't throttle at.

Your "undervolt" is how much you can reduce the CEP "desired" voltage, via using V/F points negative offsets, down to your vmin.

The big question here, which I have no time to test, is whether DC Loadline itself affects what CEP wants or not. Maybe @shamino1978 can check that if he has extra time in his very busy schedule. Intel documents say that AC Loadline is the CPU's power supply and DC Loadline is the CPU's power measurements. (and predicted loadline vdroop slope). But does CEP take DCLL's value into account for phantom throttling or not?

DC Loadline has absolutely no effect on your vmin (as far as I'm aware). Nor does it affect your load voltage. Now Eitan (an intel engineer) claims that "die sense is inaccurate", but I have my tinfoil hat on there.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Falkentyne said:


> There are three things here.
> 1) CPU's stock voltage.
> 2) Vmin.
> 3) Undervolt.
> 
> Apparently, the CPU's "stock voltage" is what the CPU requests at load, (at a given workload), which depends on some magical balance between the CPU's own base VID (related to the v/f points), AC/DC Loadline settings, which are resistance values in milliohms (or POSSIBLY _ONLY_ the AC Loadline setting--this still needs to be determined), the Loadline Calibration setting (a resistance value in milliohms), and the VF point or interpolated V/F point is for the frequency in question, combined with Thermal velocity boost voltage optimizations being enabled (TVB).
> 
> What determines whether the CPU's "stock" load voltage is correct seems to be the "CEP IA" setting (Current Excrusion Protection).. CEP seems to want the CPU's load voltage to be no lower than 10mv of the V/F point for that frequency. If the load voltage is lower, you have "too much" vdroop and CEP will "EDP" throttle you (phantom throttling) to limit your current draw as CEP "thinks" the CPU is getting too little vcore.
> 
> CEP can apparently follow what you set manual offsets to, on the V/F curve, since CEP only cares about the V/F points and the loadlines which tries to 'reach' the V/F point in question.
> 
> Vmin is the absolute MINIMUM load voltage required for stability. The problem with vmin is this depends on your workload. Vmin for something like Stockfish chess engine may be 1.195v @ 5.1 ghz--any lower and you get a random BSOD, while vmin for Cinebench R23 30 minute loop may be 1.160v.
> 
> Your "guardband" is the voltage distance between the "CEP" setting it wants, and the vmin of your designated workload.
> Now one could say that your true guardband is the worst case scenario between the vmin of the heaviest workload you can apply on the CPU (e.g. Prime95 30.7 build 9, Small FFT AVX2 (FMA3), which is the ADL compatible version), and the CEP setting at which it won't throttle at.
> 
> Your "undervolt" is how much you can reduce the CEP "desired" voltage, via using V/F points negative offsets, down to your vmin.
> 
> The big question here, which I have no time to test, is whether DC Loadline itself affects what CEP wants or not. Maybe @shamino1978 can check that if he has extra time in his very busy schedule. Intel documents say that AC Loadline is the CPU's power supply and DC Loadline is the CPU's power measurements. (and predicted loadline vdroop slope). But does CEP take DCLL's value into account for phantom throttling or not?
> 
> DC Loadline has absolutely no effect on your vmin (as far as I'm aware). Nor does it affect your load voltage. Now Eitan (an intel engineer) claims that "die sense is inaccurate", but I have my tinfoil hat on there.


I think (it's just a feeling)... If CEP algo uses the VID for it calculations, seems natural that if DC_LL "change the way" that CPU calculate VID, DC_LL will interfere in the CEP algo... But it just my logic feeling...


----------



## Techie007

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for the info. What llc do you recommend?


Totally depends on what your hardware needs for stability—I couldn't credibly tell you exactly which LLC be best for your board + CPU + overclock. Just note that on ASUS, higher LLC results in better stability with more heat, while on MSI, you have to lower the LLC to achieve that result (their scales are reversed). That's an impressive Cinebench score you've got there! As it looks like you're using an MSI board, if you encounter any stability issues with this overclock, you could try dropping your LLC from 7 to 6 and see if that helps.


----------



## Benni231990

Techie007 said:


> For ASUS, LLC7 is aggressive. For MSI, it is relaxed.


i use LCC7 on my strix F and its not agressiv i have idle 1.341-1350 and under load i have 1.331 its perfect


----------



## destylock

Benni231990 said:


> i use LCC7 on my strix F and its not agressiv i have idle 1.341-1350 and under load i have 1.331 its perfect


Full load 1.331volt? How much power does it draw at full load 1.33v?


----------



## Falkentyne

Benni231990 said:


> i use LCC7 on my strix F and its not agressiv i have idle 1.341-1350 and under load i have 1.331 its perfect


Please remember that your Strix does NOT have die sense!
What you see for your load voltage is going to be HIGHER than your actual true load voltage!
How much? No idea. A rough estimate is about 40mv or so, and I mean "rough." Because it also changes with resistance as well.
You can actually test this out yourself.

Set your system to a very low frequency. Set 4.7 ghz, sync all cores (cache, ring at stock please), set your vcore to 1.20v manual (override). Set your LLC to level 8.
Level 8 is a 0 mohm vdroop, meaning your "RMS" voltage should be the same at idle and at load, to the same value set in the BIOS. But of course your transients will be awful but we don't care about this.

Download Prime95 30.7 build 9.



https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=27180


Download HWinfo64 and go to sensors only and bring up the vcore reading. (NOT VID, Vcore).
Look at your vcore when idle.

Run the stress test and choose the first setting: "Disable AVX2 and AVX", by checking the boxes that say disable AVX2 and AVX1. choose "Large FFT". Press start.
Look at the vcore at load. It will probably have risen. That's a false reading. The rise is due to power plane impedance. If you set 1.20v, it should read 1.20v.

Stop the test. Then do "Small FFT", disable AVX2 and AVX again. Start it. Watch the vcore read.
Record the vcore and stop the test.

Now choose "AVX2" (FMA3). Uncheck all the disable boxes (you can't choose AVX2 if you have AVX1 disabled, etc) so just remove the checkboxes.
Start the test. Notice the vcore.
Most likely, you will have seen the vcore RISE higher in AVX2 than you did in large FFT (AVX disabled) or small FFT (AVX disabled).

If it was showing 1.28v, the real vcore read would be 1.20v.

Actually your oscilloscope graph would look something like this. Note that those large spikes would not actually be recorded on the vcore sensor as they happen far too fast to be captured by the Super I/O sensor chip.


----------



## Malinkadink

Lots of posts, whats the TLDR for bins on these chips? I have a 12700k on z690i right now at 5ghz/4gz and 1.3v but I've decided to go with atx over itx so i have a strix ddr4 board sitting waiting for a case as the fractal torrent sent to me had 6 broken front panel clips lol. I may try pushing the cpu further since I'll have much better cooling for it in the larger case with airflow, but even if i decide to stay at 5P/4E its still a massive leap over my 7700k that i ran at 4.8ghz.


----------



## Benni231990

destylock said:


> Full load 1.331volt? How much power does it draw at full load 1.33v?


i have about 277-281 watt


----------



## Exilon

RobertoSampaio said:


> I think (it's just a feeling)... If CEP algo uses the VID for it calculations, seems natural that if DC_LL "change the way" that CPU calculate VID, DC_LL will interfere in the CEP algo... But it just my logic feeling...


Based on my testing at AC_LL = 0.55, DC_LL and VID has no effect on CEP throttling. 

AC_LL = 0.55, DC_LL = 0.01, LLC3 => throttling 23%
AC_LL = 0.55, DC_LL = 0.01, LLC4 => throttling 4%
AC_LL = 0.55, DC_LL = 0.01, LLC5 => throttling 0%
AC_LL = 0.55, DC_LL = 0.73, LLC5 => throttling 0%
AC_LL = 0.55, DC_LL = 1.7, LLC5 => throttling 0%


----------



## Exilon

fray_bentos said:


> Shouldn't it? I thought the ADL IMC design/characteristics are more RKL-like than CML-like.


ADL has two of them working in concert according to Igor's article with Kingston, unlike RKL where one handled both 64-bit channels.








DDR5 Deep Dive – Kingston im exklusiven Interview zum neuen Arbeitsspeicher-Standard und viele Beispiele aus der Praxis | Seite 2 | igor´sLAB


Die Grundlegenden Änderungen zum neuen DDR5 Arbeitsspeicher-Standards wurden ja bereits um den Launch der Intel Alder Lake CPUs zu Genüge beleuchtet, wenn auch manchmal nicht ganz korrekt.




www.igorslab.de














It explains why I'm getting 50% more 2R1W bandwidth than on Coffee Lake with the same B-die kit at the same speed.. How was Comet Lake vs Rocket Lake IMC efficiency at the same speed?


----------



## sugi0lover

CPU-Z bench with 12900K 5.7Ghz

○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / P Cores 5.7Ghz / E Cores 4.4Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz
○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 6400Mhz-30-37-37-26-280-1T (Gear 2)
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0802)
○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.380v(llc7) / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.430v / MC 1.300v / SA Auto
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Exilon said:


> Based on my testing at AC_LL = 0.55, DC_LL and VID has no effect on CEP throttling.
> 
> AC_LL = 0.55, DC_LL = 0.01, LLC3 => throttling 23%
> AC_LL = 0.55, DC_LL = 0.01, LLC4 => throttling 4%
> AC_LL = 0.55, DC_LL = 0.01, LLC5 => throttling 0%
> AC_LL = 0.55, DC_LL = 0.73, LLC5 => throttling 0%
> AC_LL = 0.55, DC_LL = 1.7, LLC5 => throttling 0%


Are you testing with voltage override?
I'm asking because AC_LL 0.55 and LLC#5 will provide a very high voltage...
What load did you used?


----------



## kmellz

Was still getting some reboots, testing with slightly more voltage and most secondary/tertiary dram timings on auto, also using 133:100 instead


----------



## famich

sugi0lover said:


> CPU-Z bench with 12900K 5.7Ghz
> 
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / P Cores 5.7Ghz / E Cores 4.4Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz
> ○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 6400Mhz-30-37-37-26-280-1T (Gear 2)
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0802)
> ○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.380v(llc7) / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.430v / MC 1.300v / SA Auto
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.
> View attachment 2534269
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534270


Most probably a top binned piece- 1-2% of all CPUs having been produced 
Luck of the draw or an ample amount to sort from?

What I have seen here and elsewhere , most are SP 70-85


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## rluker5

famich said:


> Most probably a top binned piece- 1-2% of all CPUs having been produced
> Luck of the draw or an ample amount to sort from?
> 
> What I have seen here and elsewhere , most are SP 70-85


Obviously. And great cooling. But the guy knows what he is doing and is putting a lot of effort into getting the maximum performance possible out of his setup.
I will be quite happy if I can get 3/4 the oc he can with my as of yet unknown sp 12700k when my backordered Hynix DDR5 hopefully ships on 12-7.

He is also being generous with oc details and I will gratefully use them as a guide to the direction to take. He doesn't have to be, he is choosing to share what he found works best.


----------



## famich

rluker5 said:


> Obviously. And great cooling. But the guy knows what he is doing and is putting a lot of effort into getting the maximum performance possible out of his setup.
> I will be quite happy if I can get 3/4 the oc he can with my as of yet unknown sp 12700k when my backordered Hynix DDR5 hopefully ships on 12-7.
> 
> He is also being generous with oc details and I will gratefully use them as a guide to the direction to take. He doesn't have to be, he is choosing to share what he found works best.
> [/QUOTE
> 
> Great, no hard feelings, it is always like that in every CPU release. I got /5500/5300 in games, CPU is working perfectly, my point-)


----------



## Exilon

RobertoSampaio said:


> Are you testing with voltage override?
> I'm asking because AC_LL 0.55 and LLC#5 will provide a very high voltage...
> What load did you used?


Strix D4. I'm wondering if your motherboard has some non-Intel spec changes out of the box like overvolting enabled. 
Intel spec for 12900K is 1.1/1.1 AC/DC LL and with those settings I get 1.33v CB23 loaded at 280W.
0.55/1.1 gets me 1.22v VID and 225W in the same workload.


----------



## deceptiv23

What’s been the highest sp score posted on 12900k so far? Thought mine was good with 95 but seen a 103 here so far


----------



## carlhil2

I am licking my chops for SPR chips. GC cores are simply beasts...


----------



## Exilon

carlhil2 said:


> I am licking my chops for SPR chips. GC cores are simply beasts...


Never underestimate the interconnect fabric's ability to let you down. 🙃


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Exilon said:


> Strix D4. I'm wondering if your motherboard has some non-Intel spec changes out of the box like overvolting enabled.
> Intel spec for 12900K is 1.1/1.1 AC/DC LL and with those settings I get 1.33v CB23 loaded at 280W.
> 0.55/1.1 gets me 1.22v VID and 225W in the same workload.


I have a 12900k QS.... I don't know if there is any difference from retail, but for me it's impossible to run r23 with more than 200W... If I do I have temp throttling.
With vcore at 1.16v I temps are around 100C.
My limit is P51x/E40x/R36x @ 1.16v


----------



## Exilon

RobertoSampaio said:


> I have a 12900k QS.... I don't know if there is any difference from retail, but for me it's impossible to run r23 with more than 200W... If I do I have temp throttling.
> With vcore at 1.16v I temps are around 100C.
> My limit is P51x/E40x/R36x @ 1.16v


1.16v 100c is very strange but I figured out why our AC_LL are so different. It's TVB VO.
I just disabled TVB VO and reduced AC_LL to 0.25 + LLC4 and I'm getting 1.18v VID, 210W, and max 79C









I'm going to play around with VO disabled and LLC4 to see if it's better than the LLC3 .55 AC VO enabled configuration. VO enabled pulls the low load VID too low to be stable on desktop idle at 0.50AC. So far with VO disabled, I can get full load to be 40mV lower with 0.25AC but it remains to be seen if mixed workload power characteristics are any better. I guess PCMark trace tests would be a good way to compare.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Exilon said:


> 1.16v 100c is very strange but I figured out why our AC_LL are so different. It's TVB VO.
> I just disabled TVB VO and reduced AC_LL to 0.25 + LLC4 and I'm getting 1.18v VID, 210W, and max 79C
> View attachment 2534332
> 
> 
> I'm going to play around with VO disabled and LLC4 to see if it's better than the LLC3 .55 AC VO enabled configuration. VO enabled pulls the low load VID too low to be stable on desktop idle at 0.50AC. So far with VO disabled, I can get full load to be 40mV lower with 0.25AC but it remains to be seen if mixed workload power characteristics are any better. I guess PCMark trace tests would be a good way to compare.



I heard people saying retail run colder...
I can't understand how could be so colder.
We are talking about power... If I had a different ihs, ok... But it's the same...

If I sync all P cores 51x. Sync all e cores to 40x and let ring auto, I need vcore 1.16v to be stable running r23... +/-210w... My temps are around 100C... No matter my LLC or AC_LL... I need 1.16v...

The problem could be the room temp... I have 30C room temp... And water is about 35C.... So it could make difference even running a af-ii 420mm.

If any of you can do this test for me...
Run p51/e40/r36 at 1.16 vcore and tell me the temps...


----------



## Exilon

RobertoSampaio said:


> The problem could be the room temp... I have 30C room temp... And water is about 35C.... So it could make difference even running a af-ii 420mm.












87C with water temp 30C at 235W on an EK Velocity block. Might be mounting pressure or contact?










79C at 214W with 27C water, so approximately 4.2W/C on my setup.


----------



## acoustic

RobertoSampaio said:


> I heard people saying retail run colder...
> I can't understand how could be so colder.
> We are talking about power... If I had a different ihs, ok... But it's the same...
> 
> If I sync all P cores 51x. Sync all e cores to 40x and let ring auto, I need vcore 1.16v to be stable running r23... +/-210w... My temps are around 100C... No matter my LLC or AC_LL... I need 1.16v...
> 
> The problem could be the room temp... I have 30C room temp... And water is about 35C.... So it could make difference even running a af-ii 420mm.
> 
> If any of you can do this test for me...
> Run p51/e40/r36 at 1.16 vcore and tell me the temps...


How can you tell water temp on an artic AIO? I didn't know there was a water temp sensor in it.

I couldn't run p51/e40 at 1.16 even if I wanted to lol


----------



## sugi0lover

rluker5 said:


> Obviously. And great cooling. But the guy knows what he is doing and is putting a lot of effort into getting the maximum performance possible out of his setup.
> I will be quite happy if I can get 3/4 the oc he can with my as of yet unknown sp 12700k when my backordered Hynix DDR5 hopefully ships on 12-7.
> 
> He is also being generous with oc details and I will gratefully use them as a guide to the direction to take. He doesn't have to be, he is choosing to share what he found works best.


Thanks for your kind words! I think this community is for sharing not for competing, so I try to contribute since I also get lots of help from cstkl1 and other great guys here.



deceptiv23 said:


> What’s been the highest sp score posted on 12900k so far? Thought mine was good with 95 but seen a 103 here so far


One guy binned 1000 12900K and his best 12900ks are SP 103, 104, 105. He posted here before.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

acoustic said:


> How can you tell water temp on an artic AIO? I didn't know there was a water temp sensor in it.
> 
> I couldn't run p51/e40 at 1.16 even if I wanted to lol


Im using a temp sensor connected to the radiator....

But I think I have 2 problems...
I my Kryonaut Extreme is over... So I used mx4...
and I'll check the pump.
I remember I was running 210w about 85C before... But my room temp was 25 and water 30C



EDITED

I was reading some old messages and I saw a r23 result I posted with hw-info max temp at 85C.... I think I know the problem...

AF-II have the pump, the VRM fan and radiator fan sharing the same wire...

When I moved the MB to the case I remove the radiator fans from the same connector/wire, and connected to the CPU fan header... And connected the AF-II pump and VRM fan to the MB pump header...

I think the MB pump header is not running the pump at full speed... So the water flow is reduced...

This weekend I'll check all these wires and headers... And check if AF-II pump is running full speed...

I remember I did a test months ago and if the pump is not running at full speed when CPU goes to full load, CPU temps rises a lot...


----------



## Exilon

Exilon said:


> I'm going to play around with VO disabled and LLC4 to see if it's better than the LLC3 .55 AC VO enabled configuration. VO enabled pulls the low load VID too low to be stable on desktop idle at 0.50AC. So far with VO disabled, I can get full load to be 40mV lower with 0.25AC but it remains to be seen if mixed workload power characteristics are any better. I guess PCMark trace tests would be a good way to compare.


Basically VO and LLC work in opposite directions. As load increases, VO wants to increase voltage while loadline wants to decrease it, but VO is fixed in magnitude.
Results with LLC2-4 and VO on/off running the PCMark10 suite. 
*VO off, AC 0.25, LLC4








VO on, AC 0.55, LLC3*








*VO on, AC 0.65, LLC2







*

Observations with CB23 stable configurations:
1. VO off LLC3 results in +80-90mV additional VID in low-medium load situations but -40mV in CB23. So 1.38v at low load turbo but 1.18v in CB23 multi-core.
2. VO on LLC3 requires overvolting CB23 load to maintain low load stability because VO pulls VID too low at 30-40C
3. VO on LLC2 allows lower CB23 voltage without downsides of VO off but higher loads are unstable because LLC is too weak.

If Raptor Lake gives us separate CEP VF curves and VO VT curves, the VID + VO + CEP curves combined would be a powerful tool for tuning. Right now VO and CEP seem more likely to get in your way.


----------



## deceptiv23

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for your kind words! I think this community is for sharing not for competing, so I try to contribute since I also get lots of help from cstkl1 and other great guys here.
> 
> 
> One guy binned 1000 12900K and his best 12900ks are SP 103, 104, 105. He posted here before.


how you even bin 1000 lol- I guess 95 after two tries is good and shouldn’t bother for More


----------



## kingofblog

SP78 is just awful... I couldn't undervolt by even 50 mV (instant crash). Games run fine (2x fps vs HEDT i9-7900X!), but basically every all-core workload thermal throttles. Silicon Lottery shut down ages ago, so where else can one buy guaranteed high-SP CPUs?


----------



## sugi0lover

For Hynix 4800CL40 + the 12th gen, it's hard to generalize since I can see only a couple of results from Korean PC community,
but this is average oc with Hynix 4800C40 ram I can see. FYI, it's not my oc result.

- Hynix 4800cl40(16*2) oced to 6400cl34 2T (vdd 1.4v, vddq 1.31v=)


----------



## gerardfraser

RobertoSampaio said:


> If any of you can do this test for me...
> Run p51/e40/r36 at 1.16 vcore and tell me the temps...


Done this a couple days ago. Hope it helps out

Retail Intel 12900k With Enermax LIQMAX III 360 ARGB
MSI Pro z60-A DDR4
CPU 1.20v LLC Mode 2
P-Core 5200
E-Core 40
Ring 41
10 Minute Cinebench 23 Max 234 Watts
Max CPU Temperature 88°C



Another runfor anyone interested
CPU 1.16v LLC Mode 2 + Adaptive voltage+offset
P-Core 5100
E-Core 40
Ring auto
10 Minute Cinebench 23 Max 170 Watts
Max CPU Temperature 80°C


----------



## sugi0lover

One guy posted his 12900K SP101.


----------



## mattxx88

RobertoSampaio said:


> I have a 12900k QS.... I don't know if there is any difference from retail, but for me it's impossible to run r23 with more than 200W... If I do I have temp throttling.
> With vcore at 1.16v I temps are around 100C.
> My limit is P51x/E40x/R36x @ 1.16v


Roman is your friend 






delid it


----------



## ViTosS

sugi0lover said:


> CPU-Z bench with 12900K 5.7Ghz
> 
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / P Cores 5.7Ghz / E Cores 4.4Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz
> ○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 6400Mhz-30-37-37-26-280-1T (Gear 2)
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0802)
> ○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.380v(llc7) / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.430v / MC 1.300v / SA Auto
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.
> View attachment 2534269
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534270


Would love to see that setup (CPU + RAM OC) running BF 2042, I'm struggling to get 144fps with my kit in heavy enemies area, I think your combination can easily surpass 200fps maybe...


----------



## mattxx88

ViTosS said:


> Would love to see that setup (CPU + RAM OC) running BF 2042, I'm struggling to get 144fps with my kit in heavy enemies area, I think your combination can easily surpass 200fps maybe...


OT i did several tests with bf 2042, you shouldn't struggle about it
it's not an issue of our systems, it's a server side issue, EA should increase his hardware to better manage servers with 128 players


----------



## ViTosS

mattxx88 said:


> OT i did several tests with bf 2042, you shouldn't struggle about it
> it's not an issue of our systems, it's a server side issue, EA should increase his hardware to better manage servers with 128 players


Game is really bad optimized, but in fact there is a bottleneck and the 12900k is king in that game (check Hardware Unboxed video), but I never saw an 12900k with DDR4 ou DDR5 heavily tuned like guys have here running the game, I get 150-160fps most of the time (with GPU bottlenecked at 85%), but sometimes I have low as 135ish and GPU at 75%...


----------



## sugi0lover

ViTosS said:


> Would love to see that setup (CPU + RAM OC) running BF 2042, I'm struggling to get 144fps with my kit in heavy enemies area, I think your combination can easily surpass 200fps maybe...


Sorry, unfortunately I don't have that game.


----------



## mattxx88

ViTosS said:


> Game is really bad optimized, but in fact there is a bottleneck and the 12900k is king in that game (check Hardware Unboxed video), but I never saw an 12900k with DDR4 ou DDR5 heavily tuned like guys have here running the game, I get 150-160fps most of the time (with GPU bottlenecked at 85%), but sometimes I have low as 135ish and GPU at 75%...


mine 12900k is 5,2ghz allcore, i play 4k high refresh and got many improvements over warzone vs mine previous config (144 stable, all settings at minimum + dlss and nvidia reflex)
on bf barely improvements over my old 9900ks on 128players server
try joining an empty server, you'll see your framerate boosting a lot and being very stable, this makes me suppose it's a server side issue when populated server


----------



## ViTosS

mattxx88 said:


> mine 12900k is 5,2ghz allcore, i play 4k high refresh and got many improvements over warzone vs mine previous config (144 stable, all settings at minimum + dlss and nvidia reflex)
> on bf barely improvements over my old 9900ks on 128players server
> try joining an empty server, you'll see your framerate boosting a lot and being very stable, this makes me suppose it's a server side issue when populated server


There is no issue at all, that's how MP games are coded, more the players in the map, less GPU usage, that's why like Warzone the mode with 100 players you have higher GPU usage than the mode with 150 players, same thing goes to BF since BF is BF in PC I think, BFV if you play 16x16 your GPU usage is higher, if you play 32x32 your GPU usage tend to be lower, not simple like that having 128 players in the map and the same GPU usage as with bots or with no enemy at all, this things will never change.


----------



## iraff1

sugi0lover said:


> One guy posted his 12900K SP101.
> 
> View attachment 2534393
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534394


I always get excited when i see this type of stuff, then i get a quick reality check when i see the temps, yep thats another non real usecase scenario


----------



## orbitech

@gerardfraser I'm sure you've mentioned it before but may I ask what SP?


----------



## rluker5

famich said:


> Great, no hard feelings, it is always like that in every CPU release. I got /5500/5300 in games, CPU is working perfectly, my point-)


I've got none. TBH I really just wanted an opportunity to state my appreciation for all of the details sugi0lover was putting out after coming back to this thread and seeing that he was still improving his top end performance. 
Also glad you qualified that oc to games. I will be cooling limited so I plan on having different oc for games and heavy power use benches. When my DDR5 shows up at least  I even got lucky enough to get my preorder in on the 12th and the modules I ordered went live on the website on the 23rd or 24th (There was a link from the manufacturer, but the store listing was otherwise hidden)


sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for your kind words! I think this community is for sharing not for competing, so I try to contribute since I also get lots of help from cstkl1 and other great guys here.


Thank you! 
You are kind of lucky. To get the chance to kick butt on a cpu release with so much "new" that it seems like most reviewers don't know where to start with oc. It's a complicated cpu


----------



## Cuthalu

LLC is extremely aggressive on Msi Z690 Pro D4 (Aadaptive + offset voltage mode). Even with the lowest value (llc8, tried 1 too to be sure, it was severely worse) it keeps adding more volt with more stress. Single core around 1.18v, cpuz stress 1.23v and C23 multi 1.25v. Is there any way to make the voltage drop slightly instead with higher load? It's impossible to hit power targets for cooling while having good low load stability. Any more negative offset and the system instantly crashes upon Win login.


----------



## Arni90

Cuthalu said:


> LLC is extremely aggressive on Msi Z690 Pro D4 (Aadaptive + offset voltage mode). Even with the lowest value (llc8, tried 1 too to be sure, it was severely worse) it keeps adding more volt with more stress. Single core around 1.18v, cpuz stress 1.23v and C23 multi 1.25v. Is there any way to make the voltage drop slightly instead with higher load? It's impossible to hit power targets for cooling while having good low load stability. Any more negative offset and the system instantly crashes upon Win login.


VCC or socket sense? I'm not seeing "added" voltage with VCC, but socket sense will "add" voltage because of the increasing voltage drop over the socket.


----------



## gerardfraser

orbitech said:


> @gerardfraser I'm sure you've mentioned it before but may I ask what SP?


Sorry I have no clue,got the cheapest MSI Pro z-690 DDR4.


----------



## cstkl1

rluker5 said:


> I've got none. TBH I really just wanted an opportunity to state my appreciation for all of the details sugi0lover was putting out after coming back to this thread and seeing that he was still improving his top end performance.
> Also glad you qualified that oc to games. I will be cooling limited so I plan on having different oc for games and heavy power use benches. When my DDR5 shows up at least  I even got lucky enough to get my preorder in on the 12th and the modules I ordered went live on the website on the 23rd or 24th (There was a link from the manufacturer, but the store listing was otherwise hidden)
> 
> Thank you!
> You are kind of lucky. To get the chance to kick butt on a cpu release with so much "new" that it seems like most reviewers don't know where to start with oc. It's a complicated cpu


there is reason y "reviewers" dont step into the forum. its not a complicated cpu. 

think about it.

hint "rkl" wasnt bad.


----------



## Cuthalu

Arni90 said:


> VCC or socket sense? I'm not seeing "added" voltage with VCC, but socket sense will "add" voltage because of the increasing voltage drop over the socket.


VCC. Is there any other setting that could indirectly affect LLC behavior? Do you have 114 bios?

Edit: identical voltage response with socket and vcc.


----------



## sugi0lover

Cinebench R23 passing 32K

○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / P Cores 5.6Ghz / E Cores 4.4Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz 
○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40 
○ Ram OC : 6400Mhz-30-37-37-26-280-1T (Gear 2) 
○ MB : Z690 Apex 
○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.400v(llc7) / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.435v / MC 1.300v / SA Auto 
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I changed the thermal compound from MX4 to Kryonaut Extreme
The temperature dropped 13°C.

So lets try a new Settings:

Adaptive: 1450mv
LLC#1
DC_LL: 1.75
AC_LL: 0.6

P-57x3 - 55x5 - 53x8
E-42x4 - 41x6 - 40x8

Asus OCTVB +2 boost profile modified:
55x +10C
53x +20C

Full Load P-51x/E-40x/R-36x
Vcore 1154mv - 200W
[email protected] - [email protected]

DDR5-4800














































Running r23









Idle:









Vcore running R23









Runnig CPU-Z


----------



## CallMeODZ

RobertoSampaio said:


> I changed the thermal compound from MX4 to Kryonaut Extreme
> *The temperature dropped 13°C.*



Press *X* to doubt


----------



## RobertoSampaio

RobertoSampaio said:


> I have a 12900k QS.... I don't know if there is any difference from retail, but for me it's impossible to run r23 with more than 200W... If I do I have temp throttling.
> With vcore at 1.16v I temps are around 100C.
> My limit is P51x/E40x/R36x @ 1.16v


X


----------



## acoustic

RobertoSampaio said:


> X


You had a bad mount before. I'm sure you don't think there is actually a 13c difference due to the thermal paste lol


----------



## sugi0lover

CPU-Z Single 5.9Ghz

[Edit : more details]


----------



## CallMeODZ

RobertoSampaio said:


> X


the 8 mounting holes give some more flex to mounting
currently, i have a bad mount but im not too worried. will fix it when i put in my final radiator later 

i could feel more tension on one of the thumbscrews because the post was slightly askew


----------



## RobertoSampaio

acoustic said:


> You had a bad mount before. I'm sure you don't think there is actually a 13c difference due to the thermal paste lol


Believe or not... I'm using coils... It was not a mount problem.

I think this MX4 was fake or I dont know...
Temp dropped 13C


----------



## acoustic

Springs can still have pressure issues my brother, but at least you fixed your issue.


----------



## Relent

deceptiv23 said:


> What’s been the highest sp score posted on 12900k so far? Thought mine was good with 95 but seen a 103 here so far


I have SP 91 (101/73)

Btw guys i have 57x1 55x5 and 53x8 but CPU gets down to 51x is there any way to avoid this? (My computer is just for gaming)


----------



## gerardfraser

Relent said:


> I have SP 91 (101/73)
> 
> Btw guys i have 57x1 55x5 and 53x8 but CPU gets down to 51x is there any way to avoid this? (My computer is just for gaming)


Turbo ratio all the same 57 or whatever.
Adaptive voltage + offset + LLC
Set Turbo ratio AVX offset limit for temperature under heavy loads for each core,bob yours uncle.I have BIOS screens if you have MSI Motherboard in this section of Intel
My settings
55 P-core
40 E-coe
41 Ring
SOTTR 5500Mhz


----------



## Relent

gerardfraser said:


> Turbo ratio all the same 57 or whatever.
> Adaptive voltage + offset + LLC
> Set Turbo ratio AVX offset limit for temperature under heavy loads for each core,bob yours uncle.I have BIOS screens if you have MSI Motherboard in this section of Intel
> My settings
> 55 P-core
> 40 E-coe
> 41 Ring
> SOTTR 5500Mhz


Wow 5.5 Ghz Impresive what settings do you have? Unfurtenatelly I have an Asus Strix, but i'll do my best to translate for similar settings. (I have good SP and cooler)


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

iraff1 said:


> I always get excited when i see this type of stuff, then i get a quick reality check when i see the temps, yep thats another non real usecase scenario


Like some people sell their chip at crazy clock but didn’t tell you the water temp and you cant run his advertised clock.


gerardfraser said:


> Turbo ratio all the same 57 or whatever.
> Adaptive voltage + offset + LLC
> Set Turbo ratio AVX offset limit for temperature under heavy loads for each core,bob yours uncle.I have BIOS screens if you have MSI Motherboard in this section of Intel
> My settings
> 55 P-core
> 40 E-coe
> 41 Ring
> SOTTR 5500Mhz


benchmark plz


----------



## gerardfraser

Relent said:


> Wow 5.5 Ghz Impresive what settings do you have? Unfurtenatelly I have an Asus Strix, but i'll do my best to translate for similar settings. (I have good SP and cooler)


Here are my BOIOS setting and they will be same for you
2 set-My BIOS Settings


https://postimg.cc/HrMcJCq3




https://postimg.cc/06q6DBxv




https://postimg.cc/06dzf02w




https://postimg.cc/tZBY0R6R




https://postimg.cc/KkGRs3Rs










adaptivevoltage 04 — Postimages







postimg.cc







Thanh Nguyen said:


> Like some people sell their chip at crazy clock but didn’t tell you the water temp and you cant run his advertised clock.
> benchmark plz


BIOS settings above so under any heavy workload the BIOS downclocks.

This was done on Air cooling NH-U12A chromax.Black a week or two ago

Cinebench23 Single-2190


Spoiler


----------



## sugi0lover

Someone left a message to run superposition 720P LOW.
Since I don't have any account for superposition, I can't register my score to the board.
But it seems like my score is #1 (58379) and I ran hwinfo togeter that got me score a little lower than it should be.

- Max Water Temp : 22C (5.7Ghz works fine under 25C)
○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / P Cores 5.7Ghz / E Cores 4.4Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz
○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 6400Mhz-30-37-37-26-280-1T (Gear 2)
○ MB : Z690 Apex 
○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.500v(llc7) / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.435v / MC 1.300v / SA Auto
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.


----------



## Exilon

Well, I had an interesting debug session with x265 earlier today. I switched from my old x265 stress test videos to several hours of game recordings because the 12900K was chewing through the old test videos too quickly. The new videos have a lot of movement and contrast so it was using up to 10% more power and a lot more variable than the LTT YouTube video rips I used to use. 

I was getting failed encodes and ended up testing cores, memory, and finally ring. This was the only workload I was able to reproduce this problem in and looking at task manager it shouldn't be a big surprise why:









My 4.3 ring OC was bombing out because the L2 cluster voltage was cycling like this: 









Even 4.2 at 1.3v wasn't stable with 1 failure in 3 hours of encoding. Trying 4.2 at 1.35v now and so far looking better.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

sugi0lover said:


> Someone left a message to run superposition 720P LOW.
> Since I don't have any account for superposition, I can't register my score to the board.
> But it seems like my score is #1 (58379) and I ran hwinfo togeter that got me score a little lower than it should be.
> 
> - Max Water Temp : 22C (5.7Ghz works fine under 25C)
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / P Cores 5.7Ghz / E Cores 4.4Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz
> ○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 6400Mhz-30-37-37-26-280-1T (Gear 2)
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex
> ○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.500v(llc7) / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.435v / MC 1.300v / SA Auto
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.
> View attachment 2534540


How about a realistic 30c+ water temp?


----------



## sugi0lover

Thanh Nguyen said:


> How about a realistic 30c+ water temp?


Everyone has different surroundings and setups. That is my realistic temp without any bench focused setup. I can't get my temp above 30c unless I stop the pump and I can guess it's gonna 5.4~5.5ghz passing cine r23 at 30c+.


----------



## Antsu

Thanh Nguyen said:


> How about a realistic 30c+ water temp?


Why do you keep complaining about this, like it's somehow cheating if your ambient isn't boiling? If you want to live in a sauna, it's your choice. I prefer 20C ambient, and I have a dedicated CPU loop so my CPU water is about the same as sugi0 without any ****ery. My GPU rad is next to a (bareily open) window and the water temp can drop to 10C @ 300W load, that is something I wouldn't present as "daily settings", even tho it is that for me.


----------



## Nizzen

Testing for aio lovers:
Arctic Aio in BF2042
Played 2 hours without any problems. SP 89. All core 5.5ghz and "cheap" cores at 4.4ghz. HT= on
Apex z690 and Dominator 5200 @ 5400 micron oc profile

One picture from yesterday with 5.4ghz, that is the sweetspot for voltage/frequency


----------



## Relent

Yeah, I tried changing the settings but I still drop to 5.1ghz in Halo Infinite/Vanguard

Any idea what might cause this?












































































Disabled E-Cores because I just game with this computer


----------



## Exilon

Exilon said:


> Well, I had an interesting debug session with x265 earlier today. I switched from my old x265 stress test videos to several hours of game recordings because the 12900K was chewing through the old test videos too quickly. The new videos have a lot of movement and contrast so it was using up to 10% more power and a lot more variable than the LTT YouTube video rips I used to use.
> 
> I was getting failed encodes and ended up testing cores, memory, and finally ring. This was the only workload I was able to reproduce this problem in and looking at task manager it shouldn't be a big surprise why:
> 
> My 4.3 ring OC was bombing out because the L2 cluster voltage was cycling like this:
> View attachment 2534547
> 
> 
> Even 4.2 at 1.3v wasn't stable with 1 failure in 3 hours of encoding. Trying 4.2 at 1.35v now and so far looking better.


Interestingly enough, if I set manual voltage 1.35v to CPU L2, the L2 cache voltage doesn't scale up and down with E-core load so it can keep up with the ring at 43x. I might even try 44x if the entire encode queue passes.









This isn't like the other manual voltage modes where it's just locked at the set voltage. I assume it's because CPU L2 is a FIVR output, there are additional power saving mechanisms allowing the L2 voltage to power down.


----------



## 911gt3

RobertoSampaio said:


> Believe or not... I'm using coils... It was not a mount problem.
> 
> I think this MX4 was fake or I dont know...
> Temp dropped 13C
> 
> View attachment 2534531


I'm running a 420 Arctic and my LGA1700 brackets came in today. Gonna install them Sunday using kryonaut. I'll let you know what my temps looks like.


----------



## 911gt3

Antsu said:


> Why do you keep complaining about this, like it's somehow cheating if your ambient isn't boiling? If you want to live in a sauna, it's your choice. I prefer 20C ambient, and I have a dedicated CPU loop so my CPU water is about the same as sugi0 without any ****ery. My GPU rad is next to a (bareily open) window and the water temp can drop to 10C @ 300W load, that is something I wouldn't present as "daily settings", even tho it is that for me.


I'm running an Artic Liquid Freezer 2 420mm and at idle my core temps track right about with my room temp of 19-21C, package runs about 22-25C. Room is about 19-20C (basement). Sugi0lover is running a custom loop with a 420, not at all shocked by his temps. I barely break 82C running a linux stress test at 230 watts 5.2P, 3.9E, no memory overclock. That's as fast as Ive been able to get my SP 83 CPU and remain stable in Blender and Handbrake.


----------



## ChaosAD

Is it safe to mount my Raystorm cpu block on the Apex without the LGA1700 bracket. At the moment i dont care for optimal performance, just want to set it up and run.


----------



## sugi0lover

Relent said:


> Yeah, I tried changing the settings but I still drop to 5.1ghz in Halo Infinite/Vanguard
> 
> Any idea what might cause this?
> 
> View attachment 2534571
> 
> View attachment 2534572
> 
> View attachment 2534573
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534574
> 
> View attachment 2534575
> View attachment 2534576
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534577
> 
> View attachment 2534578
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534579
> 
> 
> Disabled E-Cores because I just game with this computer


not sure this helps, but this is my setup.


----------



## Relent

sugi0lover said:


> not sure this helps, but this is my setup.
> View attachment 2534593


I changed your settings with justTurbo enabled but doesn't work for me.

The moment I start OCCT my CPU insta 5.1ghz


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Testing for aio lovers:
> Arctic Aio in BF2042
> Played 2 hours without any problems. SP 89. All core 5.5ghz and "cheap" cores at 4.4ghz. HT= on
> Apex z690 and Dominator 5200 @ 5400 micron oc profile
> 
> One picture from yesterday with 5.4ghz, that is the sweetspot for voltage/frequency


u took da rig to da ski lodge right.. 
arctic aio + god.


----------



## sugi0lover

another round of superposition benchmark 720P
○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / P Cores 5.8Ghz / E Cores 4.5Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz
○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 6400Mhz-30-37-37-26-280-1T (Gear 2)
○ MB : Z690 Apex 
○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.500v(llc7) / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.435v / MC 1.300v / SA Auto
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.


----------



## lolhaxz

SP85 China 12900K - seems to require about 1.225v or there abouts at 52x P, 3.9 E, 3.9 R (haven't tested E or R yet) to maintain a few hours Prime95 v30.7 B9 stability through SmallFFT non-AVX.

It will do 10-15 minutes at significantly less voltage, ie 1.18v - so those who test with Prime95 (probably not many these days) - it needs a good 30-60 minutes.

Temps hitting around 80-90C at this voltage, seems tapped out at 52X (for this load-type anyway) - SVID = Best case, Offset mode +0.05mv, LLC 5... sits at about 1.36v idle when not clocked down doing nothing.











PCH seems a bit toasty at 65C?

Normally I would never go for the extreme board (massive waste of money) haha, but no Apex to be seen and for some reason they had it on a $300 discount..


----------



## dragn09

so i read that the strix-a doesnt have cpu sense for the vcore. how much do i have then with 1,45v and llc6? hwinfo64 shows 1,43 under load


----------



## sniperpowa

I’ve bought 4 12900k’s so far all China sp79, sp81 and sp81. Got another coming in a day all my 10th and 11th gen good bins are Vietnam not sure how to get lucky with 12th gen pretty bad luck so far.


----------



## sugi0lover

Here is my friend's posting. He also has SP103 12900K.
He is learning 'by core OC' from RobertoSampaio's posting and his cooling is normal.

CPU: 12900K sp103
M/B: Z690 Apex 0802
RAM: Hynix 6200 CL30 1T oc
E Core /Cache : 4.3 / 4.4
P Core : 57x3, 55x5, 54x8
Voltage : Adaptive 1.46 (LLC5)
Etc : Intel Velocity Boost +2 , VF Point 11: +0.5v


----------



## asdkj1740

lolhaxz said:


> SP85 China 12900K - seems to require about 1.225v or there abouts at 52x P, 3.9 E, 3.9 R (haven't tested E or R yet) to maintain a few hours Prime95 v30.7 B9 stability through SmallFFT non-AVX.
> 
> It will do 10-15 minutes at significantly less voltage, ie 1.18v - so those who test with Prime95 (probably not many these days) - it needs a good 30-60 minutes.
> 
> Temps hitting around 80-90C at this voltage, seems tapped out at 52X (for this load-type anyway) - SVID = Best case, Offset mode +0.05mv, LLC 5... sits at about 1.36v idle when not clocked down doing nothing.
> 
> View attachment 2534607
> 
> 
> 
> PCH seems a bit toasty at 65C?
> 
> Normally I would never go for the extreme board (massive waste of money) haha, but no Apex to be seen and for some reason they had it on a $300 discount..


asus z590 z690 pch temps are not great. it is common, i guess no worries.


----------



## dragn09

sniperpowa said:


> I’ve bought 4 12900k’s so far all China sp79, sp81 and sp81. Got another coming in a day all my 10th and 11th gen good bins are Vietnam not sure how to get lucky with 12th gen pretty bad luck so far.


i have a i9 kf with 87sp and i9 k with 93sp. both X so vietnam i think


----------



## bscool

ChaosAD said:


> Is it safe to mount my Raystorm cpu block on the Apex without the LGA1700 bracket. At the moment i dont care for optimal performance, just want to set it up and run.


It should work but a proper bracket or spacer/washer mods will help temps. I had a Raystorm install on z690 Strix A D4 and temps were high as it didn't have enough pressure. I put on an Artic Cooling AIO with 1700 brackets and dropped temps around 15c under load.

I didn't mess around with adding washer/spacers on Raystorm and the backplate doesn't sit right so it was a temp setup anyway. But I think with the right pressure from spacers it would work fine.


----------



## CENS

getting there


----------



## CENS

and since folks usually interested in Aida64


----------



## acoustic

First person I've seen with the Z690 DARK. Really nice results! How's the BIOS?


----------



## cstkl1

CENS said:


> and since folks usually interested in Aida64
> View attachment 2534643


ln2 right. but what with the bad latency???
was about to ask u on fb..

really nice write/copy.. insane actually


----------



## CENS

acoustic said:


> First person I've seen with the Z690 DARK. Really nice results! How's the BIOS?


I'm still on a pre-release bios, but is rly solid. No weird glitches no hick-ups. Safe-boot button works flawless and fast, it's a bit different than asus' implementation. Say you had 7000mhz working but failed booting 7200mhz, you hit safe boot and you go straight back to the working 7000mhz no tedious retraining.


----------



## acoustic

CENS said:


> I'm still on a pre-release bios, but is rly solid. No weird glitches no hick-ups. Safe-boot button works flawless and fast, it's a bit different than asus' implementation. Say you had 7000mhz working but failed booting 7200mhz, you hit safe boot and you go straight back to the working 7000mhz no tedious retraining.


that is pretty slick. Glad to see EVGA back in the game after being non-existent for Z590!!


----------



## CENS

cstkl1 said:


> ln2 right. but what with the bad latency???
> was about to ask u on fb..
> 
> really nice write/copy.. insane actually


My priority is on the geekbench score, that's what I optimized for, gave that same profile a quick run down aida64.


----------



## CENS

acoustic said:


> that is pretty slick. Glad to see EVGA back in the game after being non-existent for Z590!!


I wouldn't exactly say non-existent, definitely late to the party, but we made damn sure we were looking sharp.


----------



## acoustic

CENS said:


> I wouldn't exactly say non-existent, definitely late to the party, but we made damn sure we were looking sharp.
> View attachment 2534645
> 
> View attachment 2534644


The Z590 DARK came out way too late to be relevant, imo. I loved my Z390 dark though!


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Relent said:


> Yeah, I tried changing the settings but I still drop to 5.1ghz in Halo Infinite/Vanguard
> 
> Any idea what might cause this?
> 
> View attachment 2534571
> 
> View attachment 2534572
> 
> View attachment 2534573
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534574
> 
> View attachment 2534575
> View attachment 2534576
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534577
> 
> View attachment 2534578
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534579
> 
> 
> Disabled E-Cores because I just game with this computer



What is the highest frequency you can run below 90C?


----------



## cstkl1

CENS said:


> I wouldn't exactly say non-existent, definitely late to the party, but we made damn sure we were looking sharp.
> View attachment 2534645
> 
> View attachment 2534644


non-existent = daily oc = bad or noshow
even ocf has better results.


----------



## rulik006

CENS said:


> I'm still on a pre-release bios, but is rly solid. No weird glitches no hick-ups. Safe-boot button works flawless and fast, it's a bit different than asus' implementation. Say you had 7000mhz working but failed booting 7200mhz, you hit safe boot and you go straight back to the working 7000mhz no tedious retraining.


Where you bought Z690 dark?
Even Luumi didnt post any content with this


----------



## famich

Sorry,guys, where in the BIOS can Isee SP of P Cores and Ecore separately ? Thanks


----------



## bscool

famich said:


> Sorry,guys, where in the BIOS can Isee SP of P Cores and Ecore separately ? Thanks


Under AI Features tab


----------



## CENS

rulik006 said:


> Where you bought Z690 dark?
> Even Luumi didnt post any content with this


I'm part of EVGA's OC team like Luumi and Biso. I just don't do youtube. Luumi's gear is on the way, I bet he'll post soon


----------



## dante`afk

@sugi0lover @cstkl1 since you guys are the onlye one's here with high clock tight timings ram,

could you run the following please?

Download Dota2 (free) on steam
Download CapframeX
Downlaod this replay: https://filehorst.de/download.php?file=ezusAetx
Must be pasted into: X: \ Steam \ steamapps \ common \ dota 2 beta \ game \ dota \ replays \
Before starting DotA 2 you have to go to the start options (Steam library, DotA2 -> right click -> property "
Insert the following under launch options: "+ fps_max 999" without the "

Use the following settings:










And then log the FPS for 60s between 20:15 and 21:15 in the player view (selectable at the top right) = eveN



CapframeX will show them like this under comparison:


----------



## rulik006

CENS said:


> It's sponsored. I'm OC team EVGA like Luumi and Biso. I just don't do youtube. Luumi's gear is on the way, I bet he'll post soon


ah, so others need to wait half a year, as always


----------



## cstkl1

dante`afk said:


> @sugi0lover @cstkl1 since you guys are the onlye one's here with high clock tight timings ram,
> 
> could you run the following please?
> 
> Download Dota2 (free) on steam
> Download CapframeX
> Downlaod this replay: https://filehorst.de/download.php?file=ezusAetx
> Must be pasted into: X: \ Steam \ steamapps \ common \ dota 2 beta \ game \ dota \ replays \
> Before starting DotA 2 you have to go to the start options (Steam library, DotA2 -> right click -> property "
> Insert the following under launch options: "+ fps_max 999" without the "
> 
> Use the following settings:
> 
> View attachment 2534658
> 
> 
> And then log the FPS for 60s between 20:15 and 21:15 in the player view (selectable at the top right) = eveN
> 
> 
> 
> CapframeX will show them like this under comparison:
> 
> View attachment 2534659


thats very complicated.


----------



## CENS

rulik006 said:


> ah, so others need to wait half a year, as always


come one dude. Currently testing the limits so it's all smooth for daily settings. It's not unusual that special XOC mobos take a bit longer. But when has EVGA ever been ready so early in the lifecycle? Production is ramped, I hear availability starts december.


----------



## famich

bscool said:


> Under AI Features tab


Many thanks


----------



## sniperpowa

dragn09 said:


> i have a i9 kf with 87sp and i9 k with 93sp. both X so vietnam i think


My 11900k is sp90 does 5.3ghz all core. My 10900kf is sp97 does 5.5ghz on ambient. These 12900k’s are upsetting me as an overclocker. Can’t stabilize 5.3ghz 4 chips purchased no luck I’d be happy with a sp90. I got a apex and no ddr5 nothing but junk ram becomes available. Seems everyone on here has high 80+ sp.


----------



## cstkl1

sniperpowa said:


> My 11900k is sp90 does 5.3ghz all core. My 10900kf is sp97 does 5.5ghz on ambient. These 12900k’s are upsetting me as an overclocker. Can’t stabilize 5.3ghz 4 chips purchased no luck I’d be happy with a sp90. I got a apex and no ddr5 nothing but junk ram becomes available. Seems everyone on here has high 80+ sp.


my sp93 max 5.3 viet
my sp89 does 5.5 china

but my sp93 does magical ram timings on 2nd/3rd. 

so delid baredie .. will bring it back to 5.5. also this is what holding me back posting sotr on retail cpu.


----------



## sniperpowa

cstkl1 said:


> my sp93 max 5.3 viet
> my sp89 does 5.5 china
> 
> but my sp93 does magical ram timings on 2nd/3rd.
> 
> so delid baredie .. will bring it back to 5.5. also this is what holding me back posting sotr on retail cpu.


Still significantly higher than my three tries. You got ddr5 too I’m stuck with ddr4 and it’s obvious that manufactures didn’t put much effort into ddr4 boards. You can’t find one with even post codes. I’m stuck staring at my apex in the box and I ordered everything on release.


----------



## LionAlonso

Is there any difference in 12900K vs 12900KF in cpu bin?

or its the same (meaning it comes to the luck of draw)


----------



## CallMeODZ

edit out - thread moved 3 pages




rulik006 said:


> ah, so others need to wait half a year, as always


evga release boards just as a platform about to die. give them a break
they are still trying to fix all the 3090's that broke in new world


----------



## cstkl1

sniperpowa said:


> Still significantly higher than my three tries. You got ddr5 too I’m stuck with ddr4 and it’s obvious that manufactures didn’t punch much effort into ddr4 boards. You can’t find one with even post codes. I’m stuck staring at my apex in the box and I ordered everything on release.


its coming like really soon. the ddr4 boards.. just like rkl requires a very good cpu+ram first
even then with how daisy chain topology is ... you cant stabilize like 2dimm.

here my take as to why. just my opinion.
in all my years of ocing ram. i find SA voltage to be my bane. too little, performance less, too high bsod... and ram is so influenced by it to a point ppl actually tune their timings arnd it rather than what chipset can do.

then 2dimm boards alleviates this stress and you actually can get better timings and stability.

in rkl we could actually oc the ram chipset limit but bdie being bdie. you need a fantastic cpu + ram. learned alot on limits of ddr4

now z690 4dimm boards. i think they are superb for ppl who game. 5600-5900x really lost here. d4 boards + 12600/12700/12900k are priced competitively.

d4 not for ocers who wants to push the ipc of adl.


----------



## sugi0lover

dante`afk said:


> @sugi0lover @cstkl1 since you guys are the onlye one's here with high clock tight timings ram,
> 
> could you run the following please?
> 
> Download Dota2 (free) on steam
> Download CapframeX
> Downlaod this replay: https://filehorst.de/download.php?file=ezusAetx
> Must be pasted into: X: \ Steam \ steamapps \ common \ dota 2 beta \ game \ dota \ replays \
> Before starting DotA 2 you have to go to the start options (Steam library, DotA2 -> right click -> property "
> Insert the following under launch options: "+ fps_max 999" without the "
> 
> Use the following settings:
> 
> View attachment 2534658
> 
> 
> And then log the FPS for 60s between 20:15 and 21:15 in the player view (selectable at the top right) = eveN
> 
> 
> 
> CapframeX will show them like this under comparison:
> 
> View attachment 2534659


I hope I did it right. Please check the video whether I did something wrong.


----------



## LionAlonso

LionAlonso said:


> Is there any difference in 12900K vs 12900KF in cpu bin?
> 
> or its the same (meaning it comes to the luck of draw)


Anyone knows?


----------



## Mad1137

Hm guys , change my Corsair h150i capellix, to ek aio 360 elite . In bios show 134pts cooling .... Corsair 166.. what I m doing wrong ??? Really sad ..


----------



## bscool

Mad1137 said:


> Hm guys , change my Corsair h150i capellix, to ek aio 360 elite . In bios show 134pts cooling .... Corsair 166.. what I m doing wrong ??? Really sad ..


Do you have 1700 mounting kit or add spacer/washer to 1151 kit? I dropped 15c getting lga 1700 mounting kit on AIO vs Raystorm on LGA 1151. I didn't add spacers so Raystorm didn't have proper mounting pressure.

Edit and the way the EK is made you can't really add washers as the standoff are the stoppers so without proper mounting kit that is an issue.


----------



## dante`afk

Nizzen said:


> Testing for aio lovers:
> Arctic Aio in BF2042
> Played 2 hours without any problems. SP 89. All core 5.5ghz and "cheap" cores at 4.4ghz. HT= on
> Apex z690 and Dominator 5200 @ 5400 micron oc profile
> 
> 
> 
> One picture from yesterday with 5.4ghz, that is the sweetspot for voltage/frequency


can you share bios txt?




sugi0lover said:


> I hope I did it right. Please check the video whether I did something wrong.
> View attachment 2534691


thx!


----------



## bscool

@Mad1137 Also take the cooler rating in bios with a grain of salt, go by temps in Windows under load. That is what matters but I am sure the issue is lack of mounting pressure as 1700 z height is lower.

Also check pump speed. You really need to know all of this to compare set up to set up and fan speed etc. Can just throw it in and compare.


----------



## ChaosAD

bscool said:


> It should work but a proper bracket or spacer/washer mods will help temps. I had a Raystorm install on z690 Strix A D4 and temps were high as it didn't have enough pressure. I put on an Artic Cooling AIO with 1700 brackets and dropped temps around 15c under load.
> 
> I didn't mess around with adding washer/spacers on Raystorm and the backplate doesn't sit right so it was a temp setup anyway. But I think with the right pressure from spacers it would work fine.


Thank you so much for your answer. I emailed XSPC and they replied that the LGA1700 bracket will be available early December for shipping. So i wait my stick of DDR5 on Monday and cant wait for a new block or the new bracket delivery. Other than that shall i go for the XSPC bracket or buy the new EK Velocity2 block? Decisions...


----------



## Mad1137

bscool said:


> @Mad1137 Also take the cooler rating in bios with a grain of salt, go by temps in Windows under load. That is what matters but I am sure the issue is lack of mounting pressure as 1700 z height is lower.
> 
> Also check pump speed. You really need to know all of this to compare set up to set up and fan speed etc. Can just throw it in and compare.


Ye mate , in windows and games temp fine ( maximum 60c ) cb23 around 88 .. but why bios show this . First time when I mount it's show around 168 ... Bios lie


----------



## dante`afk

guess my CPU is dead.

after trying to change the vcore via Asus Vcore, it defaulted to 0.600 after hitting apply. PC shut down, board shows 00 even after cmos reset button


----------



## mattskiiau

Falkentyne said:


> Please remember that your Strix does NOT have die sense!
> What you see for your load voltage is going to be HIGHER than your actual true load voltage!


Does this comment stay true for idle voltage as well?
Eg. Idling at 1.314v, I could technically be less than 1.3v?


----------



## rulik006

dante`afk said:


> guess my CPU is dead.
> after trying to change the vcore via Asus Vcore, it defaulted to 0.600 after hitting apply. PC shut down, board shows 00 even after cmos reset button


First blood!
cpu is cold or heating up?


----------



## kmellz

dante`afk said:


> guess my CPU is dead.
> 
> after trying to change the vcore via Asus Vcore, it defaulted to 0.600 after hitting apply. PC shut down, board shows 00 even after cmos reset button


try a bios flashback


----------



## Exilon

mattskiiau said:


> Does this comment stay true for idle voltage as well?
> Eg. Idling at 1.314v, I could technically be less than 1.3v?


It's less true at lower power. The higher the current, the more divergence there is between the sensor and real voltage delivered to the CPU.
If you want VID to reflect actual die voltage, you need to set DC_LL correctly or let the motherboard do it:

IA AC Load Line [#.#] //Set this to a fixed number or it'll do AC = DC per Intel spec (1.7/1.46/1.1/.97 for LLC1-4) which is a lot of voltage at idle.
TVB Voltage Optimizations [Enabled] //Setting this to [Disabled] requires you to reduce AC load line significantly since it will apply an additional 30-100mV over [Enabled]

IA DC Load Line [Auto] //Auto is required to let the motherboard set this
CPU Load-line Calibration [Level #] //set this to 2-4 if you're using adaptive voltage
Synch ACDC Loadline with VRM Loadline [Enabled] //turns on sync between ACDC loadline and LLC for [Auto]


----------



## mattskiiau

Exilon said:


> It's less true at lower power. The higher the current, the more divergence there is between the sensor and real voltage delivered to the CPU.
> If you want VID to reflect actual die voltage, you need to set DC_LL correctly or let the motherboard do it:
> 
> IA AC Load Line [#.#] //Set this to a fixed number or it'll do AC = DC per Intel spec (1.7/1.46/1.1/.97 for LLC1-4) which is a lot of voltage at idle.
> TVB Voltage Optimizations [Enabled] //Setting this to [Disabled] requires you to reduce AC load line significantly since it will apply an additional 30-100mV over [Enabled]
> 
> IA DC Load Line [Auto] //Auto is required to let the motherboard set this
> CPU Load-line Calibration [Level #] //set this to 2-4 if you're using adaptive voltage
> Synch ACDC Loadline with VRM Loadline [Enabled] //turns on sync between ACDC loadline and LLC for [Auto]


Dang, I didn't wanna have to go into that much effort just to get proper read outs. 
I suppose I'll just chill on the OC until I move to a better mobo with die sense and DDR5. 

Thank you for your response though.


----------



## PhoenixMDA

dante`afk said:


> guess my CPU is dead.
> 
> after trying to change the vcore via Asus Vcore, it defaulted to 0.600 after hitting apply. PC shut down, board shows 00 even after cmos reset button


That's really....you can only use guarantee and hope that it give's no problem's.
I never use oc software after i has lost my 9900k gold chip at the same way, because of software isue but on asrock board.


----------



## sugi0lover

dante`afk said:


> guess my CPU is dead.
> 
> after trying to change the vcore via Asus Vcore, it defaulted to 0.600 after hitting apply. PC shut down, board shows 00 even after cmos reset button


hope you solved the problem.
I also never use vcore and memtweak to change anything after booting. I run those apps just to see bios input values.


----------



## Paul Fleming

Hi guys
Using a strix z690 and a 12900k but can't get turbo vcore to change cpu voltage .
Have to use intel tool which I hate .
Any ideas what is going on 
Also , anyone seen any good OC guides for this platform.
This is a bit different to say the least 😵


----------



## Exilon

Paul Fleming said:


> Hi guys
> Using a strix z690 and a 12900k but can't get turbo vcore to change cpu voltage .
> Have to use intel tool which I hate .
> Any ideas what is going on
> Also , anyone seen any good OC guides for this platform.
> This is a bit different to say the least 😵


Go into BIOS, set adaptive voltage and then change AC loadline. Up to increase voltage, down to decrease voltage. Start with AC 0.7 + DC 1.1 + LLC3 and adjust from there.


----------



## cstkl1

Exilon said:


> Go into BIOS, set adaptive voltage and then change AC loadline. Up to increase voltage, down to decrease voltage. Start with AC 0.7 + DC 1.1 + LLC3 and adjust from there.


crazy running ac 0.7 with llc3


----------



## cstkl1

Paul Fleming said:


> Hi guys
> Using a strix z690 and a 12900k but can't get turbo vcore to change cpu voltage .
> Have to use intel tool which I hate .
> Any ideas what is going on
> Also , anyone seen any good OC guides for this platform.
> This is a bit different to say the least 😵


check @RobertoSampaio octvb thread. asus oc tools.


----------



## Mad1137

bscool said:


> @Mad1137 Also take the cooler rating in bios with a grain of salt, go by temps in Windows under load. That is what matters but I am sure the issue is lack of mounting pressure as 1700 z height is lower.
> 
> Also check pump speed. You really need to know all of this to compare set up to set up and fan speed etc. Can just throw it in and compare.


Ye ,I use lga 1700 upgrade kit .


----------



## Exilon

cstkl1 said:


> crazy running ac 0.7 with llc3


Intel default SVID is AC 1.1 with LLC3 (DC 1.1).
It's only crazy if you turned voltage optimizations off which increases voltages by 1.5mV per 1C from TjMax, meaning around +100mV while idle.


----------



## dante`afk

kmellz said:


> try a bios flashback



didnt help.

rip


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Exilon said:


> Go into BIOS, set adaptive voltage and then change AC loadline. Up to increase voltage, down to decrease voltage. Start with AC 0.7 + DC 1.1 + LLC3 and adjust from there.


LLC#3, DC_LL=1.1 you can set AC_LL to 0.3, without any change in VF curves...
Bad CPUs maybe 0.35
Good CPUs maybe 0.2


----------



## cstkl1

Exilon said:


> Intel default SVID is AC 1.1 with LLC3 (DC 1.1).
> It's only crazy if you turned voltage optimizations off which increases voltages by 1.5mV per 1C from TjMax, meaning around +100mV while idle.


die sense
stock 0.36/1.1 LL3 IA limit = 5.2/5.3 v/f
4900 vmin AVX2 1.08

running 0.7 that will end up 1.2v atleast.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Sorry... I was thinking 51x...


----------



## cstkl1

RobertoSampaio said:


> LLC#3, DC_LL=1.1 you can set AC_LL to 0.3, without any change in VF curves...
> Bad CPUs maybe 0.35
> Good CPUs maybe 0.2


0.2 = hci / ram error a confirmed thing.
pushing edge of ram stability.. it effects ram stability.



RobertoSampaio said:


> Sorry... I was thinking 51x...


5.1 avx 2 stable 1.14vmin .


CENS said:


> come one dude. Currently testing the limits so it's all smooth for daily settings. It's not unusual that special XOC mobos take a bit longer. But when has EVGA ever been ready so early in the lifecycle? Production is ramped, I hear availability starts december.


@Jwick have u been getting the support u need from XOC passed down.. or just emails reply who are u etc?


----------



## Exilon

SP78 12900K here needs 0.58/1.1 with voltage optimization enabled for CB23 stable at 1.2v
I don't see how you can possibly run default vf curve on 0.35/1.1 with a bad CPU unless voltage optimization was disabled. By default/auto it should be in the enabled state on a Strix board.


----------



## cstkl1

Exilon said:


> SP78 12900K here needs 0.58/1.1 with voltage optimization enabled for CB23 stable at 1.2v
> I don't see how you can possibly run default vf curve on 0.35/1.1 with a bad CPU unless voltage optimization was disabled. By default/auto it should be in the enabled state on a Strix board.


cpu at stock 4.9 or?


----------



## cstkl1

@Exilon
humour me

try this llc3 ac 0.36, dc 1.1 ia limit = ure 5.2/5.3 v/f

stock whats your min vid on load with sync 49? r23?


----------



## HvacGuru

Exilon said:


> SP78 12900K here needs 0.58/1.1 with voltage optimization enabled for CB23 stable at 1.2v
> I don't see how you can possibly run default vf curve on 0.35/1.1 with a bad CPU unless voltage optimization was disabled. By default/auto it should be in the enabled state on a Strix board.


Sp78 needs 1.36v optimization enabled for 5.2


----------



## Exilon

cstkl1 said:


> cpu at stock 4.9 or?





cstkl1 said:


> @Exilon
> humour me
> 
> try this llc3 ac 0.36, dc 1.1 ia limit = ure 5.2/5.3 v/f
> 
> stock whats your min vid on load with sync 49? r23?


At optimized defaults w/modified llc/ac/dc settings, P-cores are at 4.8 because of AVX offset and I'm seeing 1.15v, but this is barely stable for CB23. x265 handbrake is not stable. I love this 12900K🙃


----------



## kingofblog

Can anyone provide instructions on how to undervolt Asus Z690 STRIX-A/D4? Editing "V/f Point #6" and setting an offset does nothing. Setting a global voltage offset does nothing. No change in HWiNFO VID, no change in temperature, and no change in wall power.

Please provide screenshot of BIOS showing what settings to change and what version to use.


----------



## cstkl1

Exilon said:


> At optimized defaults w/modified llc/ac/dc settings, P-cores are at 4.8 because of AVX offset and I'm seeing 1.15v, but this is barely stable for CB23. x265 handbrake is not stable. I love this 12900K🙃


dont oc your ram. leave sa = offset auto

hmm i wonder is it because of better powerdelivery and socket of apex etc..


----------



## cstkl1

kingofblog said:


> Can anyone provide instructions on how to undervolt Asus Z690 STRIX-A/D4? Editing "V/f Point #6" and setting an offset does nothing. Setting a global voltage offset does nothing. No change in HWiNFO VID, no change in temperature, and no change in wall power.
> 
> Please provide screenshot of BIOS showing what settings to change and what version to use.


try this llc3 ac 0.36, dc 1.1 ia limit = ure 5.2/5.3 v/f

set ac that u can pass everything and limit IA

test stock cpu everything auto first no xmp


----------



## kingofblog

> ia limit = ure 5.2/5.3 v/f


@cstkl1 What does this mean? Complete sentences, please...


----------



## cstkl1

kingofblog said:


> @cstkl1 What does this mean? Complete sentences, please...


----------



## Paul Fleming

Sorted with turbo v core
was using the wrong version lol.
Thanks for the guides .


----------



## 911gt3

911gt3 said:


> I'm running a 420 Arctic and my LGA1700 brackets came in today. Gonna install them Sunday using kryonaut. I'll let you know what my temps looks like.


Installed my replacement Rog Maximus Z690 Hero (damaged the old one with the standoffs cutting thru the little washers) and my next Artic LGA1700 kit. Interesting results, running blender CPU only BMW benchmark, which has been mostly crashes for this CPU I was pulling just under 270 watts. Temp blipped up to 91 once but stayed around 85-88C for most of the test. I've not been able to pull that many watts at that low of a temp so far. For coolers I look at watts as that's the best indication of the heat that needs dissipated. Essentially the new mounting kit is good for a 5-7C drop. I'll start playing around with some higher clocks and see what it will do. My 420 is NOT ideally mounted. It's in front of the case with an 8 drive removeable try rack right behind it loaded with my hardware raid array. Without the rack I can drop another 1-2C. I was also wrong in a previous comment, my SP is 81, not 83.


----------



## sugi0lover

ran SOTTR bench, from 362fps (6400c321t) to 368fps (6400c301t).
Now, I can forget about Gear1 DDR4 and focus on getting DDR5 better.


----------



## Frozburn

sugi0lover said:


> ran SOTTR bench, from 362fps (6400c321t) to 368fps (6400c301t).
> Now, I can forget about Gear1 DDR4 and focus on getting DDR5 better.
> View attachment 2534770
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534771


Really nice. What CPU speed and vcore is that? What do you get on this same test with DDR4?


----------



## xarot

Been trying experiment manual voltage for some Vcore testing with Prime95 SmallFFTs, but getting a BSOD within from a few seconds to a minute regardless of voltage (1.225 to 1.36) already at "stock" 4.9. Using NH-D15S for testing only though, but temps don't yet go through the roof. Tried Asus LLC3 to the highest LLC setting. Any other settings I need to tackle when trying for manual voltage? At stock XMP SmallFFTs work fine, just quite toasty. Prime Z690 D4 mobo.


----------



## sugi0lover

Frozburn said:


> Really nice. What CPU speed and vcore is that? What do you get on this same test with DDR4?


P 55, E 43, C45, but even when I OCed P to 57, it didn't make the difference until I oc ram a liitle more.
The other guy with Gear1 DDR4 4300Mhz-14-15-15-30-1T(latency 40.8ns) posted his 366fps here before.


----------



## Frozburn

sugi0lover said:


> P 55, E 43, C45, but even when I OCed P to 57, it didn't make the difference until I oc ram a liitle more.
> The other guy with Gear1 DDR4 4300Mhz-14-15-15-30-1T(latency 40.8ns) posted his 366fps here before.


Thank you for the info. Amazing. What Vcore is that? I don't see it in your post unless I am blind.


----------



## sugi0lover

Frozburn said:


> Thank you for the info. Amazing. What Vcore is that? I don't see it in your post unless I am blind.


bios input 1.34v (llc7), I posted the setting when I posted 6400 CL30 1T stabilization here.


----------



## cptclutch

Arni90 said:


> The MSI Pro is pretty solid, you'll never see the VRM overheat and the DDR4 memory overclocking seems to be similar to more expensive MSI variants


Thanks, just picked up a 12700k and the MSI PRO DDR4 for $525. Considering I'll be able to get that for my 10900k and motherboard I'm pretty excited!

Is anyone running an Intel Optimus foundation block on these? It's listed as comparable so I'm hoping I can use it no problem.


----------



## Jwick

cstkl1 said:


> 0.2 = hci / ram error a confirmed thing.
> pushing edge of ram stability.. it effects ram stability.
> 
> 
> 5.1 avx 2 stable 1.14vmin .
> 
> @Jwick have u been getting the support u need from XOC passed down.. or just emails reply who are u etc?


yea, luumi did reply and he provided me with alex(bios rnd) and vince email. none of them replied. well alex did reply but he replied asking who i am.. still nothing from them abt what i asked.. sigh.. at least in asus u can hit up cstkl1/shamino/safedisk etc and they will be more than happy to help. evga seems like a ghost town imo. and bios updates/microcode is very VERY SLOW. the latest bios is still on microcode 40 sigh(RKL).


----------



## cstkl1

Jwick said:


> yea, luumi did reply and he provided me with alex(bios rnd) and vince email. none of them replied. well alex did reply but he replied asking who i am.. still nothing from them abt what i asked.. sigh..


thats the xoc @CENS must be talking about that makes users realize
"who am i"
lol.


----------



## Carillo

sugi0lover said:


> ran SOTTR bench, from 362fps (6400c321t) to 368fps (6400c301t).
> Now, I can forget about Gear1 DDR4 and focus on getting DDR5 better.
> View attachment 2534770
> 
> 
> View attachment 2534771


Nice! I will do a rerun using Windows 10 and 60hz


----------



## sugi0lover

Carillo said:


> Nice! I will do a rerun using Windows 10 and 60hz


Thanks. Win 10 22000 is actually win 11.


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> P 55, E 43, C45, but even when I OCed P to 57, it didn't make the difference until I oc ram a liitle more.
> The other guy with Gear1 DDR4 4300Mhz-14-15-15-30-1T(latency 40.8ns) posted his 366fps here before.


must try later c28.. but afaik 6600 the one will beat it hands down .. should he 37x fps

@safedisk .. time u supersaiyan 6666c30 this bro.


----------



## lolhaxz

sugi0lover said:


> bios input 1.34v (llc7), I posted the setting when I posted 6400 CL30 1T stabilization here.


I presume when you are posting such things - these are effectively "suicide" runs right?

P 55, E 43, C45 @ 1.34v LLC7 -- Heavy load stable? [ie, not just one Cbench run for example]


----------



## cstkl1

lolhaxz said:


> I presume when you are posting such things - these are effectively "suicide" runs right?
> 
> P 55, E 43, C45 @ 1.34v LLC7 -- Heavy load stable?


its sucide while god blows on his rad bro
4c on korea, no fans needed.


----------



## sugi0lover

lolhaxz said:


> I presume when you are posting such things - these are effectively "suicide" runs right?
> 
> P 55, E 43, C45 @ 1.34v LLC7 -- Heavy load stable? [ie, not just one Cbench run for example]


Thanks for your concern. 
But I know what I am doing. Heavy load very stable.


----------



## skullbringer

CENS said:


> I'm still on a pre-release bios, but is rly solid. No weird glitches no hick-ups. Safe-boot button works flawless and fast, it's a bit different than asus' implementation. Say you had 7000mhz working but failed booting 7200mhz, you hit safe boot and you go straight back to the working 7000mhz no tedious retraining.


does it have a retry button this gen?


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for your concern.
> But I know what I am doing. Heavy load very stable.


jdec i think stupid

6400c28 dram voltage 1.55, vddq 1.45
sa stock 0.928, mc voltage set stock 1.16

so theres literally no need for the two voltage

edit mc stock is 1.1v testing.,


----------



## josephimports

cptclutch said:


> Thanks, just picked up a 12700k and the MSI PRO DDR4 for $525. Considering I'll be able to get that for my 10900k and motherboard I'm pretty excited!
> 
> Is anyone running an Intel Optimus foundation block on these? It's listed as comparable so I'm hoping I can use it no problem.


Yes my block fit, no issues.


----------



## Mad1137

Guys , in cb23 , 97c on 1 core it's ok ? All auto . Ek 360 aio


----------



## Carillo

Mad1137 said:


> Guys , in cb23 , 97c on 1 core it's ok ? All auto . Ek 360 aio


Unless your room is 50-60C , my guess there is something wrong with you cooling if you are running stock with 360 AIO...... Have you checked the contact surface between the cooler and IHS ?


----------



## bscool

Mad1137 said:


> Ye ,I use lga 1700 upgrade kit .


Where did you get the lga 1700 kit for EK AIO? I tried to order one but it said not available until December.

EK-AIO LGA1700 upgrade kit

Edit and to give you something to compare I did a couple minute run of CB23 and hit 72c max when 12900kf set to auto on z690 Strix X. AIO LF 2 420.


----------



## matique

Exilon said:


> At optimized defaults w/modified llc/ac/dc settings, P-cores are at 4.8 because of AVX offset and I'm seeing 1.15v, but this is barely stable for CB23. x265 handbrake is not stable. I love this 12900K🙃


Hi five man on the sp78 lol. Thinking of getting another one since it probably can't get worse than this, and sell this off.

I had to do LLC 3, 1.1 DC / 0.25 AC to get it stable. LLC1&2 not stable at all in games.


----------



## Mad1137

Carillo said:


> Unless your room is 50-60C , my guess there is something wrong with you cooling if you are running stock with 360 AIO...... Have you checked the contact surface between the cooler and IHS ?


Yes check.. all fine , thermal fine .. idk what is is


----------



## Mad1137

bscool said:


> Where did you get the lga 1700 kit for EK AIO? I tried to order one but it said not available until December.
> 
> EK-AIO LGA1700 upgrade kit


Just order with aio


----------



## bscool

Mad1137 said:


> Just order with aio


I already have had(in build for other people) 2 of the EK 360s and have a 420 Artic now. The Artic is around 25c less than your temps when I just did a run to test so something is off with yours.


----------



## 911gt3

Mad1137 said:


> Guys , in cb23 , 97c on 1 core it's ok ? All auto . Ek 360 aio



Do you have the right mount?

I was running my Artic 420 with the 1200 mounts. Temps were high. Last night got the proper mounts installed. Nice drop in temps. I pushed it to settings I know have not been stable in search of watts to test the CPU around 290+ watts I get into the mid 90's but to get there I have to run the Blender CPU only BMW benchmark. FWIW my SP81 CPU crashes at 52P/40E at 1.520v. BUT It's stable in everything else I do, including a Handbrake run I've been using to test. At more normal voltage and 51/39 its stable in everything and barely gets past 80C pulling, ironically, right around TDP of 240 watts.

TL : DR I estimate the with the proper mounts I've dropped about 10C and I THOUGHT I had good contact with the LGA1200 mount, clearly I didn't. Mounting makes a difference.


----------



## kingofblog

@cstkl1

What is the point of setting IA VR Voltage Limit? Doesn't that just cap your frequency?

I set ACLL=0.36 and DCLL=1.1 per your suggestion, and it does lower the VID reading in HWiNFO, but not the ASUS-reported "Vcore". Power consumption/temperature are still the same, but I do see that the CPU package power and EC "Vcore power" reading now match, whereas there was a 10% discrepancy before.

How does the ASUS VR firmware decide the output voltage? It seems to disregard the SVID request, or else it has its own algorithm, as VID is now lower than "Vcore".

HWiNFO64 while running Prime95:









EDIT: Changing ACLL seems to have an influence on Vcore. ACLL 0.35->0.25 results in Vcore 1.394 -> 1.37, and ACLL 0.25->0.15 drops it further to 1.35. I also found that setting the voltage mode to "offset" works (BIOS reported voltage drops proportionally), although offsets don't work in "adaptive" mode. Global voltage offsets make the single-core turbo frequency unstable though, so this isn't a viable approach.

EDIT2: I set ACLL to 0.05 and it passes a quick loadtest. I achieved my goal of reducing the power consumption in all-core loads, but I still don't understand why this works, but offset voltage and V/f points don't. @RobertoSampaio


----------



## D-EJ915

Jwick said:


> yea, luumi did reply and he provided me with alex(bios rnd) and vince email. none of them replied. well alex did reply but he replied asking who i am.. still nothing from them abt what i asked.. sigh.. at least in asus u can hit up cstkl1/shamino/safedisk etc and they will be more than happy to help. evga seems like a ghost town imo. and bios updates/microcode is very VERY SLOW. the latest bios is still on microcode 40 sigh(RKL).


evga support is special unfortunately, the SR-3 doesn't boot with some cards inserted and they ghosted me in my support requests. Their RMA support is great but the rest is nonexistent. Gigabyte board missing bifurcation? support gives custom bios in like 1 week, evga says can't do it sorry and shows up randomly like 1 yr later lol. It's a shame but I guess to be existed with a small company.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Some 3DMark









I scored 47 297 in Fire Strike


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com













I scored 23 193 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com













I scored 16 334 in Port Royal


Intel Core i7-12700K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## Mad1137

bscool said:


> I already have had(in build for other people) 2 of the EK 360s and have a 420 Artic now. The Artic is around 25c less than your temps when I just did a run to test so something is off with yours.


Hm .. now I need some help mate ) now check bios cooler show 170 pts .. I staring worry


911gt3 said:


> Do you have the right mount?
> 
> I was running my Artic 420 with the 1200 mounts. Temps were high. Last night got the proper mounts installed. Nice drop in temps. I pushed it to settings I know have not been stable in search of watts to test the CPU around 290+ watts I get into the mid 90's but to get there I have to run the Blender CPU only BMW benchmark. FWIW my SP81 CPU crashes at 52P/40E at 1.520v. BUT It's stable in everything else I do, including a Handbrake run I've been using to test. At more normal voltage and 51/39 its stable in everything and barely gets past 80C pulling, ironically, right around TDP of 240 watts.
> 
> TL : DR I estimate the with the proper mounts I've dropped about 10C and I THOUGHT I had good contact with the LGA1200 mount, clearly I didn't. Mounting makes a difference.


Yes , got 1700 kit all mounting well I check . Idk why I got this temps in benchs


----------



## dante`afk

sugi0lover said:


> hope you solved the problem.
> I also never use vcore and memtweak to change anything after booting. I run those apps just to see bios input values.


I think it even killed my board. I put another cpu today in and while this time all goes on, code still remains at 00.


----------



## Mad1137

911gt3 said:


> Do you have the right mount?
> 
> I was running my Artic 420 with the 1200 mounts. Temps were high. Last night got the proper mounts installed. Nice drop in temps. I pushed it to settings I know have not been stable in search of watts to test the CPU around 290+ watts I get into the mid 90's but to get there I have to run the Blender CPU only BMW benchmark. FWIW my SP81 CPU crashes at 52P/40E at 1.520v. BUT It's stable in everything else I do, including a Handbrake run I've been using to test. At more normal voltage and 51/39 its stable in everything and barely gets past 80C pulling, ironically, right around TDP of 240 watts.
> 
> TL : DR I estimate the with the proper mounts I've dropped about 10C and I THOUGHT I had good contact with the LGA1200 mount, clearly I didn't. Mounting makes a difference.


Share ur voltage , on auto settings please  coz I start guessing, I have some issue with my system


----------



## cstkl1

dante`afk said:


> I think it even killed my board. I put another cpu today in and while this time all goes on, code still remains at 00.


hopefully your board died. u can rma that.
and your high bin cpu survived..


----------



## sugi0lover

0451 said:


> Some 3DMark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 47 297 in Fire Strike
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 23 193 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 16 334 in Port Royal
> 
> 
> Intel Core i7-12700K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


Your GS is awesome^^


----------



## cstkl1

edit


----------



## cstkl1

kingofblog said:


> @cstkl1
> 
> What is the point of setting IA VR Voltage Limit? Doesn't that just cap your frequency?
> 
> I set ACLL=0.36 and DCLL=1.1 per your suggestion, and it does lower the VID reading in HWiNFO, but not the ASUS-reported "Vcore". Power consumption/temperature are still the same, but I do see that the CPU package power and EC "Vcore power" reading now match, whereas there was a 10% discrepancy before.
> 
> How does the ASUS VR firmware decide the output voltage? It seems to disregard the SVID request, or else it has its own algorithm, as VID is now lower than "Vcore".
> 
> HWiNFO64 while running Prime95:
> View attachment 2534846
> 
> 
> EDIT: Changing ACLL seems to have an influence on Vcore. ACLL 0.35->0.25 results in Vcore 1.394 -> 1.37, and ACLL 0.25->0.15 drops it further to 1.35. I also found that setting the voltage mode to "offset" works (BIOS reported voltage drops proportionally), although offsets don't work in "adaptive" mode. Global voltage offsets make the single-core turbo frequency unstable though, so this isn't a viable approach.
> 
> EDIT2: I set ACLL to 0.05 and it passes a quick loadtest. I achieved my goal of reducing the power consumption in all-core loads, but I still don't understand why this works, but offset voltage and V/f points don't. @RobertoSampaio


this the advantage of extreme/apex
u can see vlatch max and set the IA required


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> Your GS is awesome^^


Thanks! In FS and TS I just look at frame rate for GT1 and GT2.


----------



## cstkl1

@snakeeyes111 
come show your scores dude


----------



## cstkl1

i9-12900k -SP93
Asus MZ690 Apex - 0802
Gskill 2x16gb 6400 c28-37-37-28-1T 280
Asus Strix Rtx 3080ti stock


----------



## Mad1137

Guys , what voltage need for the 5.1 on all cores ?


----------



## CENS

skullbringer said:


> does it have a retry button this gen?


No need for retry here. Hit reset and it retries immediately. But usually it retries much faster and more often on it's own, than most other boards since z490.


----------



## snakeeyes111

Result not found







www.3dmark.com













Result not found







www.3dmark.com













Result not found







www.3dmark.com













I scored 54 597 in Fire Strike


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com






Last runs with cold water ~7°C


----------



## cstkl1

snakeeyes111 said:


> Result not found
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Result not found
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Result not found
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 54 597 in Fire Strike
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last runs with cold water ~7°C


nice bro.. imagine if u had a 6600-6666c28...
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥


----------



## 911gt3

Mad1137 said:


> Guys , what voltage need for the 5.1 on all cores ?


I have my adaptive set to 1.4500 and am stable in all tests at 5.1P/3.9E on my low binned SP81 chip. I've been as high as 1.52 in search of stability at 5.2/4.0. This is with zero AVX offset. My chip is actually stable below 1.45. I believe my Asus bios recommended 1.373 for my present settings. I had hoped with a 420mm Artic AIO I could squeeze 5.2 out of this thing but no luck so far. I look at watts and the difference between 5.1 and 5.2 all core can be as much as 50+ greater under heavy loads like Blender benchmark which corresponds to a heck of a lot more heat.


----------



## Farva0066

LionAlonso said:


> Is there any difference in 12900K vs 12900KF in cpu bin?
> 
> or its the same (meaning it comes to the luck of draw)


Based on silicon lottery's binning results from 10th gen, I think it is safe to assume KF's are also lower bins on 12th gen too.

Think about it -- something screwed up on the silicon and let to the graphics being disabled as a result. It's not a stretch to assume this quality problem impacts the overall quality --- even if the chip can hit the advertised speeds.

Proved true for 10th gen. I would spend the few extra $ (or wait) for a nonF if I were you.


----------



## owikh84

Velocity2 is 2-3C better than my old Supremacy EVO.

12900K SP 91 @ 5.2P/ 4.1E/ Cache Auto
LLC3 AC LL 0.25/ DC LL 1.1
Strix Z690-A | BIOS 0803
2x16GB G.Skill F4-4000C17D-32GTRSB @ 4000 CL15-15-15-35-2T Gear1

EK-Velocity2 Plexi+Nickel
2x 360mm RX360
12x GT 1850rpm
Ambient: 28C


----------



## mattxx88

Mad1137 said:


> Guys , what voltage need for the 5.1 on all cores ?


my sp86 can close cb23 at 1.18v under load, for daily i keep it 1.225 and no issue atm (6h bf2042 the best stress i did on it)
tonight i might mount the new baby i got from @CENS 
let's see what it can do


----------



## Mad1137

911gt3 said:


> I have my adaptive set to 1.4500 and am stable in all tests at 5.1P/3.9E on my low binned SP81 chip. I've been as high as 1.52 in search of stability at 5.2/4.0. This is with zero AVX offset. My chip is actually stable below 1.45. I believe my Asus bios recommended 1.373 for my present settings. I had hoped with a 420mm Artic AIO I could squeeze 5.2 out of this thing but no luck so far. I look at watts and the difference between 5.1 and 5.2 all core can be as much as 50+ greater under heavy loads like Blender benchmark which corresponds to a heck of a lot more heat.


Ur temps in benchs ?? (Cb23 , blender )


----------



## kingofblog

SP78, V/f curve for 4.8 GHz is 1.275 V and 5.3 GHz is 1.39 V.


----------



## Antsu

Finally got my 12900K up and running... aaand it's SP 81. Oh well, my 9900KS was real nice on the first lotto so I had it coming, might purchase another coupon when I jump to DDR5.
87P 69E to be exact, did some very very quick testing after a long day. Mount could be better, but even my dud could do (HT&e-cores off) 5400/5000 in CB R15 at 1.47V LLC5. For RAM, 4266 1:1 booted but games insta CTD on auto secondaries no matter what voltages I throw at it, I think 4000-4133 is the limit for this one.


----------



## fray_bentos

Farva0066 said:


> Based on silicon lottery's binning results from 10th gen, I think it is safe to assume KF's are also lower bins on 12th gen too.
> 
> Think about it -- something screwed up on the silicon and let to the graphics being disabled as a result. It's not a stretch to assume this quality problem impacts the overall quality --- even if the chip can hit the advertised speeds.
> 
> Proved true for 10th gen. I would spend the few extra $ (or wait) for a nonF if I were you.


Except the 10900KF binned better than 10900K on silicon lottery:





Historical Binning Statistics


Historical binning statistics from Silicon Lottery




siliconlottery.com


----------



## GtiJason

geriatricpollywog said:


> Some 3DMark
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 47 297 in Fire Strike
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 23 193 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 16 334 in Port Royal
> 
> 
> Intel Core i7-12700K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


Wow, you killed it my friend !
Looks like you only running chilled water but beating guys on Lin, good job


----------



## geriatricpollywog

GtiJason said:


> Wow, you killed it my friend !
> Looks like you only running chilled water but beating guys on Lin, good job
> View attachment 2534993


Thanks. I have 13 foot hoses on my MO-RA so I put it outside in the cold on those runs.


----------



## Revv23

Antsu said:


> Finally got my 12900K up and running... aaand it's SP 81. Oh well, my 9900KS was real nice on the first lotto so I had it coming, might purchase another coupon when I jump to DDR5.
> 87P 69E to be exact, did some very very quick testing after a long day. Mount could be better, but even my dud could do (HT&e-cores off) 5400/5000 in CB R15 at 1.47V LLC5. For RAM, 4266 1:1 booted but games insta CTD on auto secondaries no matter what voltages I throw at it, I think 4000-4133 is the limit for this one.



sorry for noob question can anyone point me to where i learn what sp# is>


----------



## darth_meh

Revv23 said:


> sorry for noob question can anyone point me to where i learn what sp# is>


I'm not sure if I've seen a formal definition for SP, but I think it stands for Silicon Purity. It's an estimate of how well the CPU will overclock (i.e. run a lower voltage/higher clock speeds). I believe it's ASUS specific as well. Generally the higher the SP, the better the CPU will overclock. The highest I've seen for 12900Ks so far is 103. Mine is 90, which is like a B+ . Low to mid-80's is probably average.


----------



## 911gt3

Mad1137 said:


> Ur temps in benchs ?? (Cb23 , blender )



Can't run CB as I'm running Linux. Blender isn't stable yet at 5.2/4.0 but it is at 5.1/3.9. Seeing high 80's with occasional spikes into the low 90's running Handbrake. It's not at all tuned and my rad has an 8 drive rack right behind it so not the best airflow. My cooler does score 175 in my Asus bios which is pretty good from what I gather. The drive rack has a raid array in it. Did some tests with it removed and got 1-3C lower temps. Anything over 250 watts and I'm in the 80's. I was in the 90's before I got the proper mount. My CPU is only SP81 so I guess I shouldn't expect much but I sure would be happy with a tune that ran 5.2/4.0 for a daily driver.


----------



## 911gt3

911gt3 said:


> Can't run CB as I'm running Linux. Blender isn't stable yet at 5.2/4.0 but it is at 5.1/3.9. Seeing high 80's with occasional spikes into the low 90's running Handbrake. It's not at all tuned and my rad has an 8 drive rack right behind it so not the best airflow. My cooler does score 175 in my Asus bios which is pretty good from what I gather. The drive rack has a raid array in it. Did some tests with it removed and got 1-3C lower temps. Anything over 250 watts and I'm in the 80's. I was in the 90's before I got the proper mount. My CPU is only SP81 so I guess I shouldn't expect much but I sure would be happy with a tune that ran 5.2/4.0 for a daily driver.


Ran Blender BMW CPU only bencmark. Score was 76.63. 5.1P/3.8E Cache auto, Adaptive voltage 1.373. Max watts 270.2. Max package temp 92, averaged about 89 for the duration of the test. E cores definitely have more headroom as they were running in the 60's and 70's for the test.

I want to build a custom loop but I don't think it's worth it on my silicon. I plan to get a 13900k when they come out and figure I'll do a loop then once all the waterblocks get sorted out, DDR5 become more available etc. I do need to play around with AC_LL, DC_LL etc but need to find the time to read thru this thread again for guidance. Currently running LL4.


----------



## cstkl1

darth_meh said:


> I'm not sure if I've seen a formal definition for SP, but I think it stands for Silicon Purity. It's an estimate of how well the CPU will overclock (i.e. run a lower voltage/higher clock speeds). I believe it's ASUS specific as well. Generally the higher the SP, the better the CPU will overclock. The highest I've seen for 12900Ks so far is 103. Mine is 90, which is like a B+ . Low to mid-80's is probably average.


sp 105 the max ever so far.


----------



## Mad1137

kingofblog said:


> SP78, V/f curve for 4.8 GHz is 1.275 V and 5.3 GHz is 1.39 V.


1.39 .. I guess it's 100c in benchs right ?)


----------



## Mad1137

And also ,how u get the lowest temps ... I try 5ghz with 1.3 and it's around 85 ... Sad my life  can't find good oc for me


----------



## kingofblog

Yes, even stock 4.9 GHz can't complete multi-core benchmarks without throttling. If you only care about games, it doesn't matter. Thermal throttle will protect you from crashing, and you can push 5.2-5.3 in-game.


----------



## Mad1137

kingofblog said:


> Yes, even stock 4.9 GHz can't complete multi-core benchmarks without throttling. If you only care about games, it doesn't matter. Thermal throttle will protect you from crashing, and you can push 5.2-5.3 in-game.


Hm . I just want stable with 5.1 on all cores , but don't know how find the good settings . Which LLC, voltage and etc


----------



## kingofblog

If you just type in 51 for your all-core multiplier, there is a very high probability that it will work, since the factory V/f curve already covers that point, and the firmware will automatically boost your VID to compensate for droop. As I mentioned, you won't be able to run certain multi-core workloads without throttling, but this is also true at stock.


----------



## Mad1137

Ye , and it's sad . I got SP84 . That's why can't push 5.1 . It's my opinion, may he I m wrong . But I think I can find some options . I need to know what LLC to use. And other Bios settings


----------



## cstkl1

Mad1137 said:


> Ye , and it's sad . I got SP84 . That's why can't push 5.1 . It's my opinion, may he I m wrong . But I think I can find some options . I need to know what LLC to use. And other Bios settings


dont give up first. let the hynix kits roll in. see how your imc first. 

if thats bad then can lament on the on cpu.


----------



## Mad1137

cstkl1 said:


> dont give up first. let the hynix kits roll in. see how your imc first.
> 
> if thats bad then can lament on the on cpu.


I no understand u bro  explain please


----------



## cstkl1

Mad1137 said:


> I no understand u bro  explain please


adl has imc quality diff. sp doesnt guarantee it

ram oc increases ipc which gives more performance than cpu oc.


----------



## Mad1137

cstkl1 said:


> adl has imc quality diff. sp doesnt guarantee it
> 
> ram oc increases ipc which gives more performance than cpu oc.


How I can check it? Or what numbers put in bios ) I have Samsung memory


----------



## cstkl1

Mad1137 said:


> How I can check it? Or what numbers put in bios ) I have Samsung memory


atm. u got to see vs others on the same board. 

sample size too small unless u have few cpus to test and also few rams to test.


----------



## mattskiiau

Anyone running a daily OC using override voltage and OCTVB? Any downsides to doing it this way?

Currently testing:
5.1ghz P all core, LLC5, 1.33v BIOS, OCTVB +2.
Cinebench passes no problems as it downclocks to 5.1Ghz and my stable override voltage. 
Been playing BF2042 and getting average of 5.22Ghz with <60c temps.

Will giving more voltage increase the average?


----------



## Mad1137

mattskiiau said:


> Anyone running a daily OC using override voltage and OCTVB? Any downsides to doing it this way?
> 
> Currently testing:
> 5.1ghz P all core, LLC5, 1.33v BIOS, OCTVB +2.
> Cinebench passes no problems as it downclocks to 5.1Ghz and my stable override voltage.
> Been playing BF2042 and getting average of 5.22Ghz with <60c temps.
> 
> Will giving more voltage increase the average?


What is ur SP score ?)


----------



## digitalfrost

Mad1137 said:


> Guys , what voltage need for the 5.1 on all cores ?


My 12700KF does it at ~1.3v without AVX offset. If not for AVX I think I could do ~1.25v.



Farva0066 said:


> Think about it -- something screwed up on the silicon and let to the graphics being disabled as a result. It's not a stretch to assume this quality problem impacts the overall quality --- even if the chip can hit the advertised speeds.


🤦‍♂️ Wish I knew this before buying, it makes so much sense. They hardly differ in price. I went with the KF since I didn't need integrated graphics.

That said, I'm happy with my OC.


----------



## mattskiiau

Mad1137 said:


> What is ur SP score ?)


Mine is an average chip. SP86.


----------



## Mad1137

mattskiiau said:


> Mine is an average chip. SP86.


And u can pass the cn23 and other benchs ? Coz I just put 5.1 on P cores ,1.3 and llc4 ? Or I need some more options ??? Tell me pls


----------



## ScomComputers

Hi guys, is there any description of what and how the AC LL and DC LL settings affect what and how to adjust what, a link please?
Thank you very much !


----------



## Mad1137

mattskiiau said:


> Anyone running a daily OC using override voltage and OCTVB? Any downsides to doing it this way?
> 
> Currently testing:
> 5.1ghz P all core, LLC5, 1.33v BIOS, OCTVB +2.
> Cinebench passes no problems as it downclocks to 5.1Ghz and my stable override voltage.
> Been playing BF2042 and getting average of 5.22Ghz with <60c temps.
> 
> Will giving more voltage increase the average?


I try ur settings , it's work . Can I use this for daily gamings ?)


----------



## Mad1137

mattskiiau said:


> Anyone running a daily OC using override voltage and OCTVB? Any downsides to doing it this way?
> 
> Currently testing:
> 5.1ghz P all core, LLC5, 1.33v BIOS, OCTVB +2.
> Cinebench passes no problems as it downclocks to 5.1Ghz and my stable override voltage.
> Been playing BF2042 and getting average of 5.22Ghz with <60c temps.
> 
> Will giving more voltage increase the average?


Bcoz voltage is 1.43 (5.3ghz) sad


----------



## mattxx88

mattskiiau said:


> Anyone running a daily OC using override voltage and OCTVB? Any downsides to doing it this way?
> 
> Currently testing:
> 5.1ghz P all core, LLC5, 1.33v BIOS, OCTVB +2.
> Cinebench passes no problems as it downclocks to 5.1Ghz and my stable override voltage.
> Been playing BF2042 and getting average of 5.22Ghz with <60c temps.
> 
> Will giving more voltage increase the average?


Did the settings I gave you not work?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

*About E-cores*

There is no VF curve for the E-colors. So how can I know the minimum voltage for each e-core frequency?
First, you need to sync all e-cores to 40x.
In Windows, select the power plan "Power Saver" and run r23. Write down the VID of the e-cores.
If you want to know the VID for 41x, 42x, etc, synchronize all e-cores and repeat the test.

The full load VID of the P-cores must be sufficient for the E-cores, otherwise the system will crash.
So if you run P51x/E41x you need to be sure the Vcore will keep e-cores with enough voltage.

Specific adaptive e-core voltages = 1299mv


----------



## digitalfrost

Not bad for a 12700KF on air right?


----------



## Revv23

cstkl1 said:


> sp 105 the max ever so far.





darth_meh said:


> I'm not sure if I've seen a formal definition for SP, but I think it stands for Silicon Purity. It's an estimate of how well the CPU will overclock (i.e. run a lower voltage/higher clock speeds). I believe it's ASUS specific as well. Generally the higher the SP, the better the CPU will overclock. The highest I've seen for 12900Ks so far is 103. Mine is 90, which is like a B+ . Low to mid-80's is probably average.


So it's set by the board reading the cpu or we think its set by intel and the board is able to read it?


----------



## Arni90

Revv23 said:


> So it's set by the board reading the cpu or we think its set by intel and the board is able to read it?


VID is set by Intel, ASUS uses some hidden scale to gauge SP from that.


----------



## cstkl1

Revv23 said:


> So it's set by the board reading the cpu or we think its set by intel and the board is able to read it?


the sp thing is asus cpu rating to assist ai oc 

it wasnt never meant for binning. so happen it has merit for ppl to do binning

it populates a table via vid request on the cpu prebin vid table by intel.

so with ai cooler training constantly. mobo uses this to get the best stability for users with diff coolers and especially ppl who live in 4 season countries. it adjusts cpu voltages so ppl can game hassle free.

msi copying as usual but wrong reasons


----------



## bscool

@Mad1137 Did you ever remove you cooler and check your mount or repaste? 

You temps you posted the other day are out of line with what you should be seeing. You were hitting 97c or something on defaults running R23. I am 20c+ lower on Artic 420 AIO running R23 on defaults with 12900kf in Strix A dr4.

Check pump speed, fan speed, cpu and block contact etc, case airfolw. Do the basics.


----------



## Exilon

Different workloads dramatically increase CPU L2 voltage required for ring overclocking stability with E-cores enabled.

For 4.3GHz
Cinebench R23 - stock 1.1V 
Gaming - 1.25V
Handbrake x265 slow - impossible

For 4.2GHz
Handbrake x265 slow - 1.375V+, still testing 1.39V. FIVR is hitting its limit, I think...
The E-cores L2 cache erroring out looks entirely like memory errors so this is the last thing I'd tune just for sanity's sake.


----------



## GtiJason

digitalfrost said:


> My 12700KF does it at ~1.3v without AVX offset. If not for AVX I think I could do ~1.25v.
> 
> 🤦‍♂️ Wish I knew this before buying, it makes so much sense. They hardly differ in price. I went with the KF since I didn't need integrated graphics.
> 
> That said, I'm happy with my OC.











Intel's Core i9-9900KF May Overclock Better Than 9900K


Welcome to the Core i9-9900KF. Yes, this is not a typo. The eight-core 16-thread Core i9-9900KF is the newest mainstream processor from Team Intel. And versus the 9900K, it may overclock better.




www.tomshardware.com


----------



## Ichirou

Is the MSI MPG Z690 EDGE WIFI DDR4 good enough for the 12900k for RAM overclocking or is there a potentially better board? (Just bought Carillo's binned CPU)


----------



## GtiJason

ScomComputers said:


> Hi guys, is there any description of what and how the AC LL and DC LL settings affect what and how to adjust what, a link please?
> Thank you very much !











ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...


Disclaimer ! These settings and methods are outside Intel's specifications, just like any other overclocking method. ---------------------------------------------------- For Z790/13900K click here Introduction: In a world increasingly concerned with natural resources, the watchword is...




www.overclock.net







https://skatterbencher.com/2021/11/04/alder-lake-overclocking-whats-new/





https://skatterbencher.com/2021/11/20/skatterbencher-30-intel-core-i9-12900k-overclocked-to-5500-mhz/





https://skatterbencher.com/2021/11/30/skatterbencher-32-intel-core-i5-12600kf-overclocked-to-5500-mhz/











Maximus Z690 and Alder Lake: Modern CPU's require...


Asus Z690, Maximus series and Alder Lake: The best tools for the best FPS. First, let me start by thanking Shamino @ ROG Asus for allowing me and the other testers to put this exciting new hardware through its paces and experiment with the new overclocking features and architecture changes, and...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

Ichirou said:


> Is the MSI MPG Z690 EDGE WIFI DDR4 good enough for the 12900k for RAM overclocking or is there a potentially better board? (Just bought Carillo's binned CPU)


I'm currently in the process of setting my system up with that exact board - full custom loop in an Enthoo Pro II including 4*8 B die under water. FWIW when I enabled XMP on my memory the board trained it without issue in G1, the memory is binned for 4000 C16 @ 1.4 VDIMM so I'd say that's pretty good. I haven't done any real testing yet, just a couple of quick runs to verify everything was actually working before tearing it all apart to install waterblocks etc. I can give you an update if you're interested, just let me know.


----------



## Ichirou

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> I'm currently in the process of setting my system up with that exact board - full custom loop in an Enthoo Pro II including 4*8 B die under water. FWIW when I enabled XMP on my memory the board trained it without issue in G1, the memory is binned for 4000 C16 @ 1.4 VDIMM so I'd say that's pretty good. I haven't done any real testing yet, just a couple of quick runs to verify everything was actually working before tearing it all apart to install waterblocks etc. I can give you an update if you're interested, just let me know.


It would actually be my first foray into the world of MSI, especially since ASUS boards for the 12th Gen are stupid overpriced for comparable specs.

But I've always heard good things about its RAM overclocking capabilities, and it would be a nice new experience to gain more knowledge about different brands in general.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Have you tested this benchmark?

I like it...
I need to rise a bit my voltages to pass...






ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser


Benchmark results for an ASUS System Product Name with an Intel Core i9-12900K processor.



browser.geekbench.com


----------



## Frozburn

How much voltage (VCSSA) is considered safe for daily OC? Also, what's the deal with timer resolution tools and Alder Lake? I set it to 0.5ms and it goes back to 1ms whenever it wants. Does that not matter anymore? Appreciate any info on this since I couldn't find any (timer resolution / alder lake)


----------



## Exilon

RobertoSampaio said:


> Have you tested this benchmark?
> 
> I like it...
> I need to rise a bit my voltages to pass...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser
> 
> 
> Benchmark results for an ASUS System Product Name with an Intel Core i9-12900K processor.
> 
> 
> 
> browser.geekbench.com


For stability testing, I've found that 1080p x265 slow preset video encoding in handbrake is extremely comprehensive. It pulls a lot of power but also cycles through many loaded states constantly. My CB23, Prime95 large FFT, and game stable overclock fell over trying to transcode 3 hours of video to HEVC.


----------



## mattskiiau

Is the Asus Z690 Strix-A D4 missing VCCIO? Unable to find it in BIOS or hwinfo.
Can only find SA.
Or am I still thinking about Gigabyte BIOS or old terminology?


----------



## bscool

mattskiiau said:


> Is the Asus Z690 Strix-A D4 missing VCCIO? Unable to find it in BIOS or hwinfo.
> Can only find SA.
> Or am I still thinking about Gigabyte BIOS or old terminology?


Just VDDQ 1.5 and SA 1.45v needed for mem oc as far as I know on ddr4 z690 or that all I use for 4133c15 DR b die.


----------



## neteng101

Exilon said:


> For stability testing, I've found that 1080p x265 slow preset video encoding in handbrake is extremely comprehensive.


Not seeing this preset in Handbrake? Closest preset I can find is H.265 MKV 1080p30?


----------



## Antsu

bscool said:


> Just VDDQ 1.5 and SA 1.45v needed for mem oc as far as I know on ddr4 z690 or that all I use for 4133c15 DR b die.


I have1.45 SA and 1.45 VDDQ for 4133c14 SR, I'll let you know if my IMC burns to the ground, but it won't.  Starting to hit the limit of this chip, timings pretty much all tightened and 4266 just wasn't happening. Maybe a future BIOS will allow that, but realisticly I just need to buy a new sample.








EDIT: Thanks @bscool for posting your full timings in the ASUS owners thread, made me remember I loosened tWRRD's when troubleshooting, managed to improve AIDA a bit:









PS. Don't feel sad if you can't get DDR5 yet. I have no trouble waiting for it to mature a bit, this run was on my daily settings  (okay okay, +100Mhz on CPU... )


----------



## Exilon

neteng101 said:


> Not seeing this preset in Handbrake? Closest preset I can find is H.265 MKV 1080p30?


Take the 1080p one








and change it to keep source frame rate.


----------



## sugi0lover

Antsu said:


> View attachment 2535154


Good job. I already posted this before on page 105. can't register to the scoreboard because only paid version allows.


----------



## Antsu

sugi0lover said:


> Good job. I already posted this before on page 105. can't register to the scoreboard because only paid version allows.
> View attachment 2535158


Damn. Looks like I need a new sample. xD


----------



## sugi0lover

Antsu said:


> Damn. Looks like I need a new sample. xD
> View attachment 2535160


With SP81, that's great. What kind of cooling do you use? I saw your result and your vga temp is really low, min/max 1/10C. crazy~
My water temp is 18C as you can see my video, that made my vga temp over 30C. envy of your cooling.


----------



## Mad1137

bscool said:


> @Mad1137 Did you ever remove you cooler and check your mount or repaste?
> 
> You temps you posted the other day are out of line with what you should be seeing. You were hitting 97c or something on defaults running R23. I am 20c+ lower on Artic 420 AIO running R23 on defaults with 12900kf in Strix A dr4.
> 
> Check pump speed, fan speed, cpu and block contact etc, case airfolw. Do the basics.


Ye , I check . All looks fine . But idk why temps so high . I change already 4 thermal paste . In games temp very good . In bech very hot )


----------



## lolhaxz

What are people seeing for lowest short term stable vcore under Prime95 AVX at 5.2GHz? (ie, where it doesn't just crap itself immediately)








Needing about 1.22v but only holding 5.15GHz average or there abouts (cooling doesn't really permit testing it for long durations) - Cooling (just a EK Velocity V1 with LGA1200 mounting on a regular ol custom loop tapping out at >330W)

VCore = Offset mode +30mv
SVID = Best case
LLC = 5

53x4, 52x8

SP91+ able to pull it off? guess you would need to be in the 1.15v territory which appears to be around SP90ish - seems quite accurate indicator this generation bar burned in AVX gaurdband which seems to nearish zero on this CPU, ie 2.0x has 5-10mv impact at most.


----------



## Antsu

sugi0lover said:


> With SP81, that's great. What kind of cooling do you use? I saw your result and your vga temp is really low, min/max 1/10C. crazy~
> My water temp is 18C as you can see my video, that made my vga temp over 30C. envy of your cooling.


GPU and CPU on separate loops, GPU rad is by a window that was fully open at the time because I was doing some GPU benching earlier. It was like -10C last night so my room being ~18C and those temperatures mixing my GPU idled at ~1C 

CPU is on single D5 + 420x45 loop with no ****ery about placement, just sucking in ambient air. Also I am running my old copper block that has been used for direct die for years now (thing has probably absorbed a tube of Conductonaut at this point) with the LGA 1200 bracket so getting a new block might help. Your setup is sick bro, mine is not that good for 24/7 because if I leave the rad outside it will freeze when not running AND my loop will condensate. if I want ~10C water that means my rad will push 10C air to my room making it cold af


----------



## RobertoSampaio

lolhaxz said:


> What are people seeing for lowest short term stable vcore under Prime95 AVX at 5.2GHz? (ie, where it doesn't just crap itself immediately)
> View attachment 2535172
> 
> Needing about 1.22v but only holding 5.15GHz average or there abouts (cooling doesn't really permit testing it for long durations) - Cooling (just a EK Velocity V1 with LGA1200 mounting on a regular ol custom loop tapping out at >330W)
> 
> VCore = Offset mode +30mv
> SVID = Best case
> LLC = 5
> 
> 53x4, 52x8
> 
> SP91+ able to pull it off? guess you would need to be in the 1.15v territory which appears to be around SP90ish - seems quite accurate indicator this generation bar burned in AVX gaurdband which seems to nearish zero on this CPU, ie 2.0x has 5-10mv impact at most.


Do you really believe your CPU is running 330W?

If you set "LLC=5" , "voltage offset" and SVID "BEST SCENARIO" your CPU will make a big mess with power calculations, voltages limits, stress conditions, etc. 
All power and protections algos will be crazy.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Edited.


----------



## lolhaxz

RobertoSampaio said:


> Do you really believe your CPU is running 330W?
> 
> If you set "LLC=5" , "voltage offset" and SVID "BEST SCENARIO" your CPU will make a big mess with power calculations, voltages limits, stress conditions, etc.
> All power and protections algos will be crazy.


Yes - it's about correct, within 15-30W atleast. Why would you think it would be _massively_ incorrect?

I can verify checking AX1200i PSU output power total - reported VRM power or package power (tends to be higher) = approximately idle power draw... sure even the AX1200i measurements are approximate also... but we're not performing rocket science here. 

Not sure why you are asking this question however?


----------



## mgkhn

after 20 days finally got this babies


----------



## RobertoSampaio

lolhaxz said:


> Yes - it's about correct, within 15-30W atleast. Why would you think it would be _massively_ incorrect?
> 
> I can verify checking AX1200i PSU output power total - reported VRM power or package power (tends to be higher) = approximately idle power draw... sure even the AX1200i measurements are approximate also... but we're not performing rocket science here.
> 
> Not sure why you are asking this question however?


If you are unsing LLC#5, change only DC_LL to 0.7 and test again.


----------



## sugi0lover

RobertoSampaio said:


> Have you tested this benchmark?
> 
> I like it...
> I need to rise a bit my voltages to pass...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser
> 
> 
> Benchmark results for an ASUS System Product Name with an Intel Core i9-12900K processor.
> 
> 
> 
> browser.geekbench.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2535145


[My Geekbench 5 bench]
○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / P Cores 5.6Ghz / E Cores 4.4Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz
○ VGA : RTX 3090 Strix
○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 6400Mhz-30-37-37-26-280-1T (Gear 2)
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0803)
○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.440v / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.435v / MC 1.300v / SA Auto
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.






ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser


Benchmark results for an ASUS System Product Name with an Intel Core i9-12900K processor.



browser.geekbench.com













Edit


----------



## ogider

MSI Cashback started also for z690 boards

uk link as an example






Christmas Deals 2021| Gaming Components, Gaming Desktop, Creation and Business PCs and monitor .| MSI


Find the perfect Christmas gift, every Gaming or Business & Productivity components you need and want with the best offer




uk.msi.com





Promotion Period: 01/12/2021 - 31/12/2021
Redemption Period: 01/12/2021 - 28/01/2022

*All products must be claimed after 14 days of your purchased date

*Exclusive to Z690 motherboards, the cashback is valided from 27th October to 31st December, 2021


----------



## ObviousCough

Anyone hitting near 300blck on Z690 yet?

200 seems pretty easy.


----------



## skullbringer

anyone else seeing a static 1x core clock multi offset on the p cores when avx512 is enabled (auto on bios versions after at least 0096)?

shows as IA: Max Turbo Limit Yes and p cores clocking down by 100 MHz momentarily in HWInfo64

to avoid any confusion, it's not a temp issue, still happens at 32x p cores with 1.0Vcore, at 36 C and 67 W, throttling to 3.1 GHz

edit: board is Z690 apex


----------



## ChaosAD

I use an Apex with 0702 bios. I did some oc today and managed to be stable at P51/E41 with 1.15v. Now if i set to adaptive, no matter what i change the VF6 at, i always get 1.17v and cant go lower. Am i doing something wrong here? I use LLC4 with the recommended AC_LL/DC_LL


----------



## Bilco

dante`afk said:


> I think it even killed my board. I put another cpu today in and while this time all goes on, code still remains at 00.


What did you do // settings you run to kill them?


----------



## CENS

if anyone draws an sp96+ chip that you don't need the extra millivolts headroom that it provides... I make you a really good offer.


----------



## neteng101

Exilon said:


> Take the 1080p one
> View attachment 2535156
> 
> and change it to keep source frame rate.


Excellent - I had that one selected but left out the keep source frame rate. I have 1.25v on my E-L2 but on a 12700k, 4.3 ring... ran that yesterday for almost 30 minutes encoding without any errors. My source file is X264 1080p MKV, not sure what frame rate. It does an excellent job of hammering away at the cores and I can see those load changes as well. Maybe the extra E-core cluster on the ring of the 12900k makes it harder to overclock the ring, or just your particular CPU... I tried 4.5 once but didn't really experiment much, wasn't stable/usable and I think I bumped up to 1.3v there.


----------



## gerardfraser

CENS said:


> if anyone draws an sp96+ chip that you don't need the extra millivolts headroom that it provides... I make you a really good offer.


I have a good chip and no attachment to the chip whatsoever. No ASUS board to tell the ASUS SP.I can say I have ran it at 5700Mhz all core but of course I could not cool it on an air cooler running cinebench,so I just run 5400Mhz/5500Mhz all core for my gaming clocks.

CPU-z Benchmark @ 5400Mhz was on air cooler Temperature hit 96°C from what I remember


Spoiler







57 P-core
40 E-core
41 Ring


Spoiler







PC games all core 5500Mhz with on screen display Forza 5,Far Cry 6,Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order,Shadow Of The Tomb Raider


Spoiler























10 Min Cinebench23 Run did not try lower voltage-
vCore 1.16
51 P-core
40 E-core
Auto Ring


Spoiler







Dual Rank Gear 1 CL14 4000Mhz


Spoiler


----------



## Exilon

On a Strix D4, I'm getting random shutdowns at idle with -40mV on VF#7 at with 5.2GHz 1-2c TVB at AC_LL 0.53 and DC_LL 1.1

With -40mV offset removed, VID peaks at 1.46V but shutdowns stop. 

Hmm... thinking about whether the 5.2 is worth it.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Exilon said:


> On a Strix D4, I'm getting random shutdowns at idle with -40mV on VF#7 at with 5.2GHz 1-2c TVB at AC_LL 0.53 and DC_LL 1.1
> 
> With -40mV offset removed, VID peaks at 1.46V but shutdowns stop.
> 
> Hmm... thinking about whether the 5.2 is worth it.


TIP:
Always use a negative offset in VF#6 and a positive offset in VF#7 to calibrate the full load voltage.
And I didn't understand what is "5.2GHz 1-2c TVB"


----------



## ViTosS

Someone with OCed 12900k and heavily tuned DDR5 or even DDR4 please record a 1080p all low gameplay of BF 2042, breakthrough mode btw, never seen that yet on youtube, only people with crap XMP performing not much different from a 10900k or 11900k. Also Warzone 150 players mode would be good to see too


----------



## kingofblog

skullbringer said:


> anyone else seeing a static 1x core clock multi offset on the p cores when avx512 is enabled (auto on bios versions after at least 0096)?
> 
> shows as IA: Max Turbo Limit Yes and p cores clocking down by 100 MHz momentarily in HWInfo64
> 
> to avoid any confusion, it's not a temp issue, still happens at 32x p cores with 1.0Vcore, at 36 C and 67 W, throttling to 3.1 GHz
> 
> edit: board is Z690 apex


Using Z690 STRIX-A D4 and not seeing this. Tried p95 AVX-512 and my own custom workload and got the same 50x multiplier I set as my all-core frequency. I haven't tested the factory frequency curve (i.e. "enforce all limits").


----------



## HyperMatrix

I had bought a couple 12900Ks at launch. Both were Chinese. Didn’t have a mobo to test. Called around and asked a few shops if they had some Vietnam chips in stock based on the reporting done in this thread. Found one place that had a 12900KF in stock from Vietnam. Grabbed it. Finally received mobo. SP91 on the chip. P-Core SP 101. E-Core SP 73.

Big Thanks for the heads up on the Chinese chips!


----------



## LionAlonso

Any way to measure the SP of the chip if you dont have a rog board?


----------



## Kana-Maru

I've had my Alder Lake PC built since around Nov 8th, but focused on mostly stock benchmarks with a little overclocking and undervolting. I got lucky and was able to get everything I needed during the preorder phase. In the past week I started to mess around with the UEFI\BIOS settings. TONS of new things to learn and so far so good. I just finished my article on my ADL Undervolting Deep Dive results and increasing performance to make it more power efficient. This is what I ended up with after playing around with it for about a week:

*CPU:* i9-12900K - P cores stock (4.9Ghz - 5.1Ghz ) - E-Cores @ 4Ghz
*vCore Load:* 1.11v (down from stock = 1.27v)
*vCore (Idle):* 0.7v
---
*CPU Package Temps:* 66c (down from 79c = stock)
*E-Core Temps:* 54c
---
*CPU Package Wattage:* 184 watts (down from 224 watts = stock)
*Total System Power Under Load (wall outlet):* 275 watts (down from 368 watts = stock)
---
*DRAM:* DRR5-4800Mhz _overclocked to_ *5600Mhz*

Tested for stability in Cinebench R23 stress test, Prime95 Torture Tests (maximum heat), y-cruncher memory and AVX benchmarks\stress test. I'm waiting for my LGA1700 brackets to be delivered before I start overclocking. I've been playing around and learning a lot of things on my own since I'm coming from the 1st Gen X58.

The article has more information and deep dives in to the micro-architecture and other improvements. Overall I'm highly impressed with Alder Lake. I'm tweaking the P-Cores to have them drop down to 4.7Ghz - 4.9Ghz, but so far 4.9Ghz has been the sweet spot under full loads @ 1.11v.

I have it paired with my RTX 3080 Ultra Liquid Cooled which is also very efficient. In games like Halo: Infinite and CoD: WarhacksZone I can limit my GPU PL and still get great frames with only around 360-400 watts pulling from the wall. I haven't really benchmarked the gaming side just yet since I've been so busy lately.


----------



## marti69

sugi0lover said:


> [My Geekbench 5 bench]
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / P Cores 5.6Ghz / E Cores 4.4Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz
> ○ VGA : RTX 3090 Strix
> ○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 6400Mhz-30-37-37-26-280-1T (Gear 2)
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0803)
> ○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.440v / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.435v / MC 1.300v / SA Auto
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS System Product Name - Geekbench Browser
> 
> 
> Benchmark results for an ASUS System Product Name with an Intel Core i9-12900K processor.
> 
> 
> 
> browser.geekbench.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2535196
> 
> 
> Edit


very good chip bro,wher did you get bios 803?


----------



## cstkl1

i9-12900k - SP93
Asus MZ690 Apex - 00093
Gskill 2x16gb 6666 36-39-39-28 2T 280 @1.55
SA|tx vddq|mc - 0.9|1.45|1.45


----------



## matique

cstkl1 said:


> i9-12900k - SP93
> Asus MZ690 Apex - 00093
> Gskill 2x16gb 6666 36-39-39-28 2T 280 @1.55
> SA|tx vddq|mc - 0.9|1.45|1.45


Have you played around with the Samsung 5600c36 sticks?


----------



## cstkl1

matique said:


> Have you played around with the Samsung 5600c36 sticks?


you got to ask @safedisk

what he told me during early days testing. understanding voltage pairing for samsung is critical . so thats what you need to start with.


----------



## matique

cstkl1 said:


> you got to ask @safedisk
> 
> what he told me during early days testing. understanding voltage pairing for samsung is critical . so thats what you need to start with.


yeah i saw his bench of 6400c36 at 1.35v. I needed 1.42v to stabilise that, and that's with secondaries and tertiaries untouched.


----------



## Techie007

Kana-Maru said:


> I just finished my article on my ADL Undervolting Deep Dive results and increasing performance to make it more power efficient.


Nice writeup! I would be curious to see how your figures compare between DDR4 and DDR5 if you ever feel like running such a comparison. Also worth noting, you repeatedly (page 1 & 2) used the term "micro-seconds" when milliseconds would have been correct; and on page 4, it should have simply been "2.02 seconds" (or 2019 milliseconds).


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

mgkhn said:


> after 20 days finally got this babies
> 
> View attachment 2535195


FLEXING king Golf R + most rare ram on earth LOL

GZ my brother,yours is the first i seen in the forum


----------



## cstkl1

Kana-Maru said:


> I've had my Alder Lake PC built since around Nov 8th, but focused on mostly stock benchmarks with a little overclocking and undervolting. I got lucky and was able to get everything I needed during the preorder phase. In the past week I started to mess around with the UEFI\BIOS settings. TONS of new things to learn and so far so good. I just finished my article on my ADL Undervolting Deep Dive results and increasing performance to make it more power efficient. This is what I ended up with after playing around with it for about a week:
> 
> *CPU:* i9-12900K - P cores stock (4.9Ghz - 5.1Ghz ) - E-Cores @ 4Ghz
> *vCore Load:* 1.11v (down from stock = 1.27v)
> *vCore (Idle):* 0.7v
> ---
> *CPU Package Temps:* 66c (down from 79c = stock)
> *E-Core Temps:* 54c
> ---
> *CPU Package Wattage:* 184 watts (down from 224 watts = stock)
> *Total System Power Under Load (wall outlet):* 275 watts (down from 368 watts = stock)
> ---
> *DRAM:* DRR5-4800Mhz _overclocked to_ *5600Mhz*
> 
> Tested for stability in Cinebench R23 stress test, Prime95 Torture Tests (maximum heat), y-cruncher memory and AVX benchmarks\stress test. I'm waiting for my LGA1700 brackets to be delivered before I start overclocking. I've been playing around and learning a lot of things on my own since I'm coming from the 1st Gen X58.
> 
> The article has more information and deep dives in to the micro-architecture and other improvements. Overall I'm highly impressed with Alder Lake. I'm tweaking the P-Cores to have them drop down to 4.7Ghz - 4.9Ghz, but so far 4.9Ghz has been the sweet spot under full loads @ 1.11v.
> 
> I have it paired with my RTX 3080 Ultra Liquid Cooled which is also very efficient. In games like Halo: Infinite and CoD: WarhacksZone I can limit my GPU PL and still get great frames with only around 360-400 watts pulling from the wall. I haven't really benchmarked the gaming side just yet since I've been so busy lately.


think u should hold off writing about ddr5 until u see what 1T hynix does.


----------



## HyperMatrix

Seems like IMC on my 12900KF is shoddy. Can't get above 3733MHz stable in Gear 1. And even then, can't do it with 1T timings.  Good performance with stock settings and TVB auto-OC though. Just too bad about memory options. Are these limitations with DDR4 indicative of performance with DDR5 as well? Because considering the clocks I'm getting with this CPU I may switch to a DDR5 motherboard once I can get my hands on some of the higher end modules.

Edit: Was finally able to get 4000MHz CL15 to run in Gear 1. Limited to 2T timing unfortunately. And still stability testing to make sure it's actually good for 24/7 gaming.


----------



## sugi0lover

marti69 said:


> very good chip bro,wher did you get bios 803?


Thanks. Here is 0803 bios posting.








[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


My 4000CL15 GR1 went from stable to not stable in Halo Infinite, so I'm back to the drawing board. I have no idea what changed - I matched everything as it was, but there must be a value I cannot see that retrained after a boot-up and ruined it. My IMC seems extremely finicky.. I can't post at...




www.overclock.net


----------



## sugi0lover

Good news for cuplex kyros users like me!
Finally my temp will be better.


----------



## sugi0lover

always focused on 1T, today did test-run of 2T. 
2T is a lot easier than 1T. 
○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / P Cores 5.5Ghz / E Cores 4.3Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz 
○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40 
○ Ram OC : 6666Mhz-30-37-37-28-290-2T (Gear 2) 
○ MB : Z690 Apex 
○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.340v(llc7) / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.435v / MC 1.300v / SA Auto 
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> always focused on 1T, today did test-run of 2T.
> 2T is a lot easier than 1T.
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / P Cores 5.5Ghz / E Cores 4.3Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz
> ○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 6666Mhz-30-37-37-28-290-2T (Gear 2)
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex
> ○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.340v(llc7) / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.435v / MC 1.300v / SA Auto
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.
> View attachment 2535300


nice. was just clearing 6600c28 going back up 6666c28 hci 
but..  it just barely equal to 6400c28 1T in actual performance 

coming soon. 
some mobos do not need garbage concepts . they fullfill dreams . 










going back to 6600 1T. learned few things..


----------



## cstkl1

dreams do come true

i9- 12900k - SP 93
Asus MZ690 Apex - 0093
Gskill 2x16gb 6666 28-39-39-28-296 2T


----------



## Kana-Maru

Techie007 said:


> Nice writeup! I would be curious to see how your figures compare between DDR4 and DDR5 if you ever feel like running such a comparison. Also worth noting, you repeatedly (page 1 & 2) used the term "micro-seconds" when milliseconds would have been correct; and on page 4, it should have simply been "2.02 seconds" (or 2019 milliseconds).


Thanks I appreciate it. I might do a few comparisons to DDR4 actually, but it seems like it might be a pain since there are so many different builds and setups. I'll see what I can do if I can get more free time. I've updated the article to reflect milliseconds and seconds, sorry about that. I've been trying to get this one out the door and I was behind by roughly a week. If you want to see my "stock" deep-dive be sure to check out the initial article which contains a little more information about the micro-architecture. 



cstkl1 said:


> think u should hold off writing about ddr5 until u see what 1T hynix does.


Nah I will probably still write about it because I'm pretty sure I won't be buying those. The pricing are just ridiculous for DDR5 especially on the high-end. I can think of better places to put that money. I'm happy with my 4800Mhz overclocked to 5600Mhz and I haven't even got deep into DDR5 overclocking just yet. I got them for around $220.00. My focus has been making Alder Lake power efficient for the most part while I wait on my LGA1700 brackets.


----------



## mgkhn

now i can finally check my sp of 12900kf tray. sp98( big sp107, small sp81)


----------



## rahimdamji29

my 12700k is something else.... I swear usually id think this was someones total BS... i dont have an asus board so no SP rating. but my chip does 5.2ghz on p cores at 1.28 fixed vcore.... here is CPU PROFILE I scored 0 in CPU Profile .... anyone have the same results here? this is on a gigabyte aorus z690i ddr4


----------



## Glottis

I just noticed Intel updated Alder Lake Denuvo compatibility list.









[Updated] Games Updated for DRM Issue with 12th Gen Intel®...


Lists games and OSs affected, provides release map for fixes for games with DRM software that can’t recognize 12th Gen Intel® Core™ Processors.




www.intel.com





They claim that the new Windows update for Win10 and 11 fixes most of the games that were previously on the list. Does anyone know which update Intel is referring to? I just manually checked for updates on my Win10 and there was nothing. My winver is 19044.1387.


----------



## cstkl1

Glottis said:


> I just noticed Intel updated Alder Lake Denuvo compatibility list.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Updated] Games Updated for DRM Issue with 12th Gen Intel®...
> 
> 
> Lists games and OSs affected, provides release map for fixes for games with DRM software that can’t recognize 12th Gen Intel® Core™ Processors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.intel.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They claim that the new Windows update for Win10 and 11 fixes most of the games that were previously on the list. Does anyone know which update Intel is referring to? I just manually checked for updates on my Win10 and there was nothing. My winver is 19044.1387.


nfs heat works now


----------



## rahimdamji29

you know whats really ironic? gigabyte gave Outriders free with purchase of z690 Gigabyte motherboard.... LMAO The drm fix doesnt work.... Disabling ecores doesnt work! they gave a free game that you cant even play on your new z690 and 12th gen intel chip! i really hope they resolve the issues soon


----------



## gtz

cstkl1 said:


> nfs heat works now


I really enjoy that game, reminds me a lot of midnight club.

Sorry of track


----------



## IronAge

mgkhn said:


> now i can finally check my sp of 12900kf tray


calling for @CENS probably he has something to offer for that cpu. 💰

what week ist this cpu from ?


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

IronAge said:


> calling for @CENS probably he has something to offer for that cpu. 💰
> 
> what week ist this cpu from ?


 We are located in Turkey and unfortunately there isnt a " market " for golden bins in this country.


----------



## mgkhn

IronAge said:


> calling for @CENS probably he has something to offer for that cpu. 💰
> 
> what week ist this cpu from ?


 Vietnam 40th week (x140)


----------



## IronAge

Streamroller said:


> We are located in Turkey and unfortunately there isnt a " market " for golden bins in this country.


but there is a global market, probably you can ship a little CPU from turkey to germany.  

AFAIK @CENS is looking for a sp100+ CPU for extreme overclocking benchmark records


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

IronAge said:


> but there is a global market, probably you can ship a little CPU from turkey to germany.
> 
> AFAIK @CENS is looking for a sp100+ CPU for extreme overclocking benchmark records


Well I cant speak for my brother but i am sure if you give him a "irresistible " offer who knows


----------



## dante`afk

yea he probably has already PMs from cens and Thanh


----------



## RobertoSampaio

So far, GeekBench 5 is the best SW for adjusting VF curves, Adaptive Voltage and OCTVB curves...
If you think your OCTVB is stable, I suggest you use GeekBeanck 5 for testing. I had a surprise...
ST and MT with "light to full to light" loads with different processing files and algorithms are very realistic and will put your CPU in a crazy load sequence.
I'm talking to the developers, proposing some changes, and maybe we'll have a discount for anyone who thinks it's worth paying for the full version.



Roberto_Sampaio's Profile - Geekbench Browser



I'm running full load P51x/E41x/R36x


----------



## jomama22

kairi_zeroblade said:


> he's just like somebody also on the AMD side..feels everyone here(and there) depends on him for memory OC (wants to be treated like a God, and be put on top of a pedestal), its a steep learning curve but eventually everyone has the capacity to learn it as there are guides and other people out there who share and care..
> 
> peace out and sorry for the OT..


Lol I know exactly who you're talking about. People and their complex's....


----------



## sugi0lover

One of three guys who have SP103 got higher SP one. [No sale for him]









Edit

















I scored 26 374 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## geriatricpollywog

rahimdamji29 said:


> my 12700k is something else.... I swear usually id think this was someones total BS... i dont have an asus board so no SP rating. but my chip does 5.2ghz on p cores at 1.28 fixed vcore.... here is CPU PROFILE I scored 0 in CPU Profile .... anyone have the same results here? this is on a gigabyte aorus z690i ddr4


Here’s my old 12700K, sp68 which is grade D
Running with HT off and e-cores disabled.









I scored 0 in CPU Profile


Intel Core i7-12700K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## owikh84

sugi0lover said:


> It may be just a coincidence. So please don't generalize.
> Two Sp 103 and this SP97 all out of the same Vietman week 31.
> (Edit: 2 Sp103 posted here before, no new 103)
> The other SP 103. No specific info!


I have two 12900K's Vietnam week 31 here, both are X131J834. SP89 and SP79 😆
A friend of mine also has week 31, batch X131K190 and it's SP100.


----------



## matique

owikh84 said:


> I have two 12900K's Vietnam week 31 here, both are X131J834. SP89 and SP79 😆
> A friend of mine also has week 31, batch X131K190 and it's SP100.


heh mine is batch x131k191 and i got a sp78. Batch numbers really don't matter much at all.


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

Anybody else have high core to core temp deltas? I'm seeing ~65 C on one core, ~ 75 C on the rest during ~240 watt rendering runs. Starting to think I should dig out my torque driver and try a remount.


----------



## mattxx88

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> Anybody else have high core to core temp deltas? I'm seeing ~65 C on one core, ~ 75 C on the rest during ~240 watt rendering runs. Starting to think I should dig out my torque driver and try a remount.


me too, but i manged a mod to my Magnitude backplate, so i hope its a mount issue


----------



## Dead_Bot_42

mattxx88 said:


> me too, but i manged a mod to my Magnitude backplate, so i hope its a mount issue


Guess I'll try a remount when I get home then. I'm using an Alphacool XPX block which was listed as compatible on their site. Not too impressed with the mounting method in general if I'm honest.


----------



## HyperMatrix

Dead_Bot_42 said:


> Anybody else have high core to core temp deltas? I'm seeing ~65 C on one core, ~ 75 C on the rest during ~240 watt rendering runs. Starting to think I should dig out my torque driver and try a remount.


I have the same problem. I was assuming it was due to the Optimus mount not having a backplate and me over tightening and causing the motherboard to flex. Let us know how the remount goes.


----------



## IronAge

owikh84 said:


> I have two 12900K's Vietnam week 31 here, both are X131J834. SP89 and SP79 😆
> A friend of mine also has week 31, batch X131K190 and it's SP100.


early retail batches, unitl your post oldest retail ADL i read about been from week #32.

i bet the the viertnam batches have V:F Points for 53x Ratio too (@stock) ?


----------



## owikh84

IronAge said:


> early retail batches, unitl your post oldest retail ADL i read about been from week #32.
> 
> i bet the the viertnam batches have V:F Points for 53x Ratio too (@stock) ?


Yes you're right. Both have 53x:


----------



## sugi0lover

ran Shadow of the Tombraider Benchmark for someone's request.
○ 2560 x 1440 ○ DX12 ○ Highest Setting
[Spec]
○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / P Cores 5.6Ghz / E Cores 4.4Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz (HT On)
○ Ram OC : 6400Mhz-30-37-37-26-280-1T (Gear 2)


----------



## jomama22

HyperMatrix said:


> I have the same problem. I was assuming it was due to the Optimus mount not having a backplate and me over tightening and causing the motherboard to flex. Let us know how the remount goes.


Its genuinely all on the CPU. Have tested multiple chips and each vary. Have had some have every pcore and ecore be nearly the same, have some that have a hot p5 and cold p1. Some have larger variation between the ecore clusters.

This is after multiple seats of each CPU as well. No change. Using an Optimus.

Ihs flatness plays a role but think it's more to just do with how leaky a specific core is. One cpu I tested was insanely cool, like 5* core and package temp cooler than every other one at the exact same voltage/power. Resat that one 3 times just to be sure.


----------



## xl_digit

still nothing is working with XMP2 -> i know 2 other people with the Z690 Apex + *Gskill F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK
all of theme have the same issue -> System post is no problem, but massiv crashes when testing memory in Windows (TestMem5)*

i already raised VDD + VDDQ in steps of 0.1V from 1.3V to 1.4V and SA / IMC from 1.1 to 1.25 nothing helps to get stability.

i testet BIOS 0702/0802/0803/0804 and the 0093 already.

*this is so disapointing.

@safedisk / @shamino1978 can you please give advices and have a focus to this problem.








*


----------



## Brandur

Hello everyone,

I recently swapped my Dominator First Edition Kit with G.Skill 6000Mhz CL36 and even with the latest Beta-Bios (0093 and 0804), I can't get them stable with XMP, even with Voltages tuned. I was realy happy getting a G.Skill Kit and now I am a bit disappointed, that I can't get them stable with XMP .

I have a 12900k and an Asus Apex.


----------



## TomCom205

xl_digit said:


> still nothing is working with XMP2 -> i know 2 other people with the Z690 Apex + *Gskill F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK
> all of theme have the same issue -> System post is no problem, but massiv crashes when testing memory in Windows (TestMem5)*
> 
> i already raised VDD + VDDQ in steps of 0.1V from 1.3V to 1.4V and SA / IMC from 1.1 to 1.25 nothing helps to get stability.
> 
> i testet BIOS 0702/0802/0803/0804 and the 0093 already.
> 
> *this is so disapointing.
> 
> @safedisk / @shamino1978 can you please give advices and have a focus to this problem.
> 
> View attachment 2535457
> *


Same Problem here ... finally found the Sticks but they don't seem to work well.


----------



## Frozburn

Is 5.1Ghz on 1.170v good? LLC is default, 44 ring, 41 E cores. Haven't messed much with it.

5.3ghz stable on 1.31 with 44 ring and 42 E. Also, does anyone know what the best CPU waterblock is in EU as of right now? I'm thinking of getting that watercool.de block but maybe EK's new block is better. Currently using a 420 Arctic since there's no blocks in my country yet.

Did a benchmark on 1080p low shadow of the tomb raider, 325 FPS with a 3080 FTW3 @ 2100 / 700 memory (awful memory on this one) and 4000 14 14 14 32 374 CR2 dual rank. CR1 doesn't work at all for me, but maybe I'm doing something wrong. Is this FPS about where it should be with this?


----------



## LionAlonso

Frozburn said:


> Is 5.1Ghz on 1.170v good? LLC is default, 44 ring, 41 E cores. Haven't messed much with it.
> 
> 5.3ghz stable on 1.31 with 44 ring and 42 E. Also, does anyone know what the best CPU waterblock is in EU as of right now? I'm thinking of getting that watercool.de block but maybe EK's new block is better. Currently using a 420 Arctic since there's no blocks in my country yet.
> 
> Did a benchmark on 1080p low shadow of the tomb raider, 325 FPS with a 3080 FTW3 @ 2100 / 700 memory (awful memory on this one) and 4000 14 14 14 32 374 CR2 dual rank. CR1 doesn't work at all for me, but maybe I'm doing something wrong. Is this FPS about where it should be with this?


What motherboard u have?
The 1.170v is reading with vdroop or input in bios?
Anyways its very good yes.


----------



## Frozburn

LionAlonso said:


> What motherboard u have?
> The 1.170v is reading with vdroop or input in bios?
> Anyways its very good yes.


Can't remember what vdroop really was, been a long time.

In HWwinfo64 it's using 1.170 and bios is 1.160. LLC is default. Haven't played with it yet, maybe I should.


----------



## LionAlonso

Frozburn said:


> Can't remember what vdroop really was, been a long time.
> 
> In HWwinfo64 it's using 1.170 and bios is 1.160. LLC is default. Haven't played with it yet, maybe I should.


If it pass cb23 and geekbench i would say its golden or near golden.


----------



## Frozburn

LionAlonso said:


> If it pass cb23 and geekbench i would say its golden or near golden.


I left it getting smashed on Cinebench 23 for an hour

Forgot to answer about the motherboard. It's the cheap MSI Z690-A Pro non WiFi (DDR4)


----------



## skullbringer

what's up with the crashing at the end of heavy loads, have seen it quite a bit with this platform, is there a reliable workaround?


----------



## jomama22

skullbringer said:


> what's up with the crashing at the end of heavy loads, have seen it quite a bit with this platform, is there a reliable workaround?


Transients, too low ac_ll, too aggressive tvboc temperatures/clocks, to high LLC.


----------



## rahimdamji29

geriatricpollywog said:


> Here’s my old 12700K, sp68 which is grade D
> Running with HT off and e-cores disabled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 0 in CPU Profile
> 
> 
> Intel Core i7-12700K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


there is no way that was a all core oc... mine is all core static oc...


----------



## dante`afk

after my sp103 (Pcores) cpu died, I got another 3, but all garbo 80/80/84.

ordered another 3x KF, first one arrived, X31...earliest i've ever seen here eh?


----------



## IronAge

dante`afk said:


> after my sp103 (Pcores) cpu died, I got another 3, but all garbo 80/80/84.
> 
> ordered another 3x KF, first one arrived, X31...earliest i've ever seen here eh?


One page backwards ...









Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion


Anybody else have high core to core temp deltas? I'm seeing ~65 C on one core, ~ 75 C on the rest during ~240 watt rendering runs. Starting to think I should dig out my torque driver and try a remount.




www.overclock.net


----------



## RobertoSampaio

dante`afk said:


> after my sp103 (Pcores) cpu died, I got another 3, but all garbo 80/80/84.
> 
> ordered another 3x KF, first one arrived, X31...earliest i've ever seen here eh?


How did the CPU die?


----------



## dante`afk

RobertoSampaio said:


> How did the CPU die?











Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion


Is there any difference in 12900K vs 12900KF in cpu bin? or its the same (meaning it comes to the luck of draw)




www.overclock.net


----------



## Zyther

Is this a decent chip?
I’m new to asus boards. I’m guessing Big SP is for P cores and Small SP is for E cores?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

dante`afk said:


> guess my CPU is dead.
> 
> after trying to change the vcore via Asus Vcore, it defaulted to 0.600 after hitting apply. PC shut down, board shows 00 even after cmos reset button


I didn't understand... Where you set the voltage? And what voltage?


----------



## Falkentyne

dante`afk said:


> after my sp103 (Pcores) cpu died, I got another 3, but all garbo 80/80/84.
> 
> ordered another 3x KF, first one arrived, X31...earliest i've ever seen here eh?


Dante dude save your money man. Come on.
Unless you are reselling those chips at -$50 cost don't throw your money away.
You can do a LOT of nice things with cash. Like play in a chess tournament...
+100 mhz isn't worth it.


----------



## dante`afk

RobertoSampaio said:


> I didn't understand... Where you set the voltage? And what voltage?


in asus vcore to 1.360, when hitting apply it switched to 0.600v, shut down, code 00.


----------



## Falkentyne

You can use AVX Guardbands to adjust AVX VID scaling under AVX workloads, which only works on Auto/Adaptive or offset voltage modes. I have no idea how useful this might be to someone but maybe someone somewhere can make use of it.
Not completely sure but I think the default guardband value is 0, which means no scaling at all. 100 is 1.0x, which is usually either a 30mv or 40mv VID boost under AVX workloads, and 50 would be 50%, or half that (e.g. 25mv or 30mv VID boost). I have no idea if SSE workloads would trigger this effect. While VID will respond to this in fixed vcore (manual override) modes, this feature is completely useless if using fixed Vcore).


----------



## HyperMatrix

Falkentyne said:


> You can do a LOT of nice things with cash. *Like play in a chess tournament...*


How much do I pay so I don't have to do this?


----------



## domdtxdissar

Can anyone give the "quicksort says" benchmark a run ? Alder Lake should own in it thanks to the strong singlethread IPC and high clockspeed

Download @ http://www.sanmayce.com/Quicksort_says_rev8.zip 

Bench took 1hour and 15 min for me, but should quite abit faster on AL..


----------



## RobertoSampaio

dante`afk said:


> in asus vcore to 1.360, when hitting apply it switched to 0.600v, shut down, code 00.


It makes no sense to me... Or I didn't understand...


----------



## LionAlonso

Can anyone test with his stable oc the occt benchmark?
it crashes in multiple avx for me but the thing is 10 min loop cb23 is stable so idk…
OCCT small extrem and avx also gives bsod almost instantly.


----------



## Exilon

Frozburn said:


> I left it getting smashed on Cinebench 23 for an hour





LionAlonso said:


> it crashes in multiple avx for me but the thing is 10 min loop cb23 is stable so idk…


CB23 doesn't test nearly enough. Cinebench algorithm is very branch and L2 cache heavy so it doesn't put enough stress on CPU execution units, ring OC, and IMC.
CB23 10-minute loop is decent enough for screening a CPU OC configuration but except to have to add 20-50mV and/or drop multipliers to be fully stable in something like Realbench for x265 encoding.


----------



## Zyther

Zyther said:


> View attachment 2535525
> 
> Is this a decent chip?
> I’m new to asus boards. I’m guessing Big SP is for P cores and Small SP is for E cores?


Anyone ?


----------



## Frozburn

Exilon said:


> CB23 doesn't test nearly enough. Cinebench algorithm is very branch and L2 cache heavy so it doesn't put enough stress on CPU execution units, ring OC, and IMC.
> CB23 10-minute loop is decent enough for screening a CPU OC configuration but except to have to add 20-50mV and/or drop multipliers to be fully stable in something like Realbench for x265 encoding.


I will try that. Where is this x265? I see H.264 Video Encoding in Realbench. Is there a specific setting I need to turn on?


----------



## GtiJason

RobertoSampaio said:


> It makes no sense to me... Or I didn't understand...


It died in OS while using TurboVCore software. Tried setting 1.360v, hit apply and it showed VCore at .600 and then was dead. 00 post code


Frozburn said:


> I will try that. Where is this x265? I see H.264 Video Encoding in Realbench. Is there a specific setting I need to turn on?


Download version 2.3 from here





Hardware museum







hw-museum.cz


----------



## Frozburn

GtiJason said:


> It died in OS while using TurboVCore software. Tried setting 1.360v, hit apply and it showed VCore at .600 and then was dead. 00 post code
> 
> Download version 2.3 from here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hardware museum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hw-museum.cz


Thanks


----------



## Falkentyne

dante`afk said:


> in asus vcore to 1.360, when hitting apply it switched to 0.600v, shut down, code 00.





GtiJason said:


> It died in OS while using TurboVCore software. Tried setting 1.360v, hit apply and it showed VCore at .600 and then was dead. 00 post code
> 
> Download version 2.3 from here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hardware museum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hw-museum.cz


How does 0.600v kill a CPU _and_ a motherboard?
Even if it overflows, isn't the highest vcore you can set without LN2 mode= 1.7v?
If such a condition happened, I think the board should be sent back to Asus so they can find out what happened. Because it's theoretically possible such a thing can happen to another board.


----------



## dante`afk

that's at least the only thing I saw happen before it shut down. @even on the hwluxx forum saw similiar behavior lately, when using asus vcore the bclk would jump on its own to 350 after changing different values before applying, luckily he did not hit apply.

I send and replaced the motherboard with the shop I bought it from. I experienced asus support twice so far in my life, and I'd never approach them again if I have the choice. Their products and their support are two different quality categories.


----------



## Ichirou

dante`afk said:


> that's at least the only thing I saw happen before it shut down. @even on the hwluxx forum saw similiar behavior lately, when using asus vcore the bclk would jump on its own to 350 after changing different values before applying, luckily he did not hit apply.
> 
> I send and replaced the motherboard with the shop I bought it from. I experienced asus support twice so far in my life, and I'd never approach them again if I have the choice. Their products and their support are two different quality categories.


So, it's only when Vcore is changed via software, and not BIOS?


----------



## lolhaxz

Cinebench R15 is a good test (atleast best I've found so far, as per some other suggestions) - 1.23v (die-sense) required for 5.2GHz P / 4.1GHz E / 4.1GHz R, auto looping for 15 minutes (ie, many back to back runs) ... even Prime95 does not require this vcore.

You definitely want to run quite a few back to back tests tho because it often won't crash till the 5th-6th run.

+0.015mv offset mode on CPU (VLatch ALL max 1.350v) - LLC5, AC 0.01... that results in 1.224v rising to 1.234v from TVB voltage optimization during the run.... no offset = crash after 5-6 runs, so it's probably still quite close to it's edge at +15mv... but as mentioned, passes 15minutes loop with a variable delay of 1-4 seconds between runs.

Sits at about 83C, water 29C

Next I shell test R15 loop with mid-heavy GPU usage in the background, I bet that will also rise vcore requirements due to the transients from the GPU.


----------



## cstkl1

Zyther said:


> View attachment 2535525
> 
> Is this a decent chip?
> I’m new to asus boards. I’m guessing Big SP is for P cores and Small SP is for E cores?


i find sp 87-89 has quite strong imc. atm this more important

so test that.


----------



## Zyther

cstkl1 said:


> i find sp 87-89 has quite strong imc. atm this more important
> 
> so test that.


Stronger then higher SPs ?
Haha I don’t think I’ll play the lottery with chips but will be good to see what I can get out of this. 

Unsure how far I could push the imc with my current ram. I just purchased the only kit I could find in stock which also happened to be the cheapest: Crucial 16GB Kit (2 x 8GB) DDR5-4800 UDIMM | CT2K8G48C40U5 | Crucial.com

I’ll replace it once gskill becomes more available


----------



## jomama22

Falkentyne said:


> How does 0.600v kill a CPU _and_ a motherboard?
> Even if it overflows, isn't the highest vcore you can set without LN2 mode= 1.7v?
> If such a condition happened, I think the board should be sent back to Asus so they can find out what happened. Because it's theoretically possible such a thing can happen to another board.


Its an under flow/overflow error in whatever data they sent to the address to change voltage. My guess is underflow that rolls over to the top end of the voltage range for the cpu but the bottom range of turboV. Did this on my 5950x, same happened, .6v then instant shutdown to 00. I got lucky though and cpu was fine after pulling the power cable from the psu for a few minutes.


----------



## GtiJason

dante`afk said:


> that's at least the only thing I saw happen before it shut down. @even on the hwluxx forum saw similiar behavior lately, when using asus vcore the bclk would jump on its own to 350 after changing different values before applying, luckily he did not hit apply.
> 
> I send and replaced the motherboard with the shop I bought it from. I experienced asus support twice so far in my life, and I'd never approach them again if I have the choice. Their products and their support are two different quality categories.


This is happening to me a lot, aka the crazy 350 bclk thing. If I open TurboV solo and make changes solo I can get at minimum 3 separate applies while the software is open.
If I have anything else open that might be using SMBus, SPI or I2C possibly this happens almost right away


----------



## Falkentyne

GtiJason said:


> This is happening to me a lot, aka the crazy 350 bclk thing. If I open TurboV solo and make changes solo I can get at minimum 3 separate applies while the software is open.
> If I have anything else open that might be using SMBus, SPI or I2C possibly this happens almost right away


Is this the same thing that happened years ago on (possibly) AMD video cards, when you had MSI Afterburner Open along with something else that polled the sensors at the same time, and it would set the vcore from like 1.25v to 1.5v (even if you didn't change voltage at all?)


----------



## Ichirou

GtiJason said:


> This is happening to me a lot, aka the crazy 350 bclk thing. If I open TurboV solo and make changes solo I can get at minimum 3 separate applies while the software is open.
> If I have anything else open that might be using SMBus, SPI or I2C possibly this happens almost right away


Is this an issue only when changing Vcore via software and not the BIOS? Just want to be safe for myself. I only ever use the BIOS anyway since I don't trust software all that much.


----------



## GtiJason

I'm not sure, I hardly change vCore in TurboV but I do use it to lower SA and change Core/uncore multi's.
I've had no bad experience with it, just like running TurboV / Formula Drive in Win XP when it bugs out I don't use it or restart if I need to

@Falkentyne I'd imagine it's something like that, I'm in W11 and assume there will be bugs like this. I don't think it's an Asus thing as I've seen it happen inASRock FD as well


----------



## Kana-Maru

Zyther said:


> Unsure how far I could push the imc with my current ram. I just purchased the only kit I could find in stock which also happened to be the cheapest: Crucial 16GB Kit (2 x 8GB) DDR5-4800 UDIMM | CT2K8G48C40U5 | Crucial.com


I have that DRAM in the 2x16GB [32GB kit] version. I have overclocked it to DDR5-5600Mhz so far so it has potential for sure. The lowest I've gotten the CAS is 34 from 5000Mhz - 5400Mhz. It'll do for now until more highly clocked DDR5 RAM becomes available and affordable.


----------



## Zyther

Kana-Maru said:


> I have that DRAM in the 2x16GB [32GB kit] version. I have overclocked it to DDR5-5600Mhz so far so it has potential for sure. The lowest I've gotten the CAS is 34 from 5000Mhz - 5400Mhz. It'll do for now until more highly clocked DDR5 RAM becomes available and affordable.


Nice, mind sharing all your values for it


----------



## therealjustin

Is there any significance to batch numbers beyond the initial letters of either "X" or "V" for 12th gen? 

My first 12700K had batch number V134I595Q, and the second that I ordered for $40 cheaper is V137J978. I haven't seen many with letters at the end like the first chip, but it likely means absolutely nothing. Wish I could test them both but I have no motherboard!


----------



## shamino1978

please dont apply changes with conflicting software such as hwinfo / cpuz, you are asking for random trouble. and the responsibility would always fall back to us but not the other 3~4 software that races for the same interface.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Doing a bit better than I was before, but still room for improvement.

12900k 5.5ghz all core e cores off
ring 49.5
mem 4179 14-15-15-28


----------



## cstkl1

geriatricpollywog said:


> Doing a bit better than I was before, but still room for improvement.
> 
> 12900k 5.5ghz all core e cores off
> ring 49.5
> mem 4179 14-15-15-28
> 
> View attachment 2535581


thats one baller of a imc.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

cstkl1 said:


> thats one baller of a imc.


Puts 11900K IMC to shame.


----------



## cstkl1

geriatricpollywog said:


> Puts 11900K IMC to shame.


it paved the way. so.. it just passed the baton bro. lol


----------



## Groove2013

With E-cores disabled, one should avoid using Win 11, until it gets fixed.

Thread Director technology, which is supposed to help the OS scheduler to distribute threads among heterogeneous cores, starts to do everything wrong when E-cores are disabled. When there are not 3 types of logical cores in Alder Lake (performance, efficient and Hyper-Threading), but only 2, it generally ceases to distinguish Hyper-Threading from physical cores. As a result, after turning off E-cores, low-threaded loads can be distributed in such a way that some pairs of threads are sent to the same core, while some physical cores remain free. As one can see on the screenshot, with the E-cores disabled and a 8-threaded task, the Windows 11 scheduler sends computing threads to the logical cores closest to each other, which are actually one physical core with Hyper-Threading support, and even constantly shuffles them.


----------



## Groove2013

For comparison, with E-Cores enabled, it shows how the same 8-threaded load falls on 8 P-cores.
In this case, each sequential pair of logical cores, representing one physical core with Hyper-Threading, is not loaded more than half, to achieve maximum performance. The last 4 cores are E-cores, they are not participating in calculation of the 8-threaded foreground problem.


----------



## Groove2013

There is only one way to combat the incorrect distribution of threads across P-cores, when RAM and cache latency hurting E-cores are disabled - to deprive Intel Thread Director technology of any influence on this process.
Unfortunately, it is impossible to disable Thread Director just like that with a switch.
BUT!
There is another option - to run Windows 10, when no E-cores are enabled, where Thread Director is simply not used.
In other words, if RAM and L3 cache performance harming E-cores are disabled on Alder Lake, the Windows 11 operating system will only harm the performance.
Windows 10 doesn't supporting Thread Director and correctly distinguishes between real and virtual cores and distributes threads over them so that ultimately the maximum level of performance is achieved.


----------



## Exilon

I expect Microsoft will fix it soon enough. 6+0 Alder Lake launches at CES.


----------



## shamino1978

Groove2013 said:


> There is only one way to combat the incorrect distribution of threads across P-cores, when RAM and cache latency hurting E-cores are disabled - to deprive Intel Thread Director technology of any influence on this process. Unfortunately, it is impossible to disable Thread Director just like that with a switch. BUT!
> There is another option - to run Windows 10, when no E-cores are enabled, where Thread Director is simply not used.
> In other words, if RAM and L3 cache performance harming E-cores are disabled on Alder Lake, the Windows 11 operating system will only harm the performance.
> Windows 10 doesn't supporting Thread Director and correctly distinguishes between real and virtual cores and distributes threads over them so that ultimately the maximum level of performance is achieved.


What I noticed on amd is that there seems to be an initial thread bias and the longer the process stays on the thread, the thread's 'score' diminishes and finally switches over to the next scoring thread while the thread then slowly recovers and finally overtakes again. This helps let the core cool down and regain its higher boost . On intel the boosting is different so h.aving the cpu guide it is good, but I think its the balance between the perf hit from context switch and temperature boosting needs to be handked well.


----------



## cstkl1

shamino1978 said:


> What I noticed on amd is that there seems to be an initial thread bias and the longer the process stays on the thread, the thread's 'score' diminishes and finally switches over to the next scoring thread while the thread then slowly recovers and finally overtakes again. This helps let the core cool down and regain its higher boost . On intel the boosting is different so h.aving the cpu guide it is good, but I think its the balance between the perf hit from context switch and temperature boosting needs to be handked well.





Groove2013 said:


> With E-cores disabled, one should avoid using Win 11, until it gets fixed.
> 
> Thread Director technology, which is supposed to help the OS scheduler to distribute threads among heterogeneous cores, starts to do everything wrong when E-cores are disabled. When there are not 3 types of logical cores in Alder Lake (performance, efficient and Hyper-Threading), but only 2, it generally ceases to distinguish Hyper-Threading from physical cores. As a result, after turning off E-cores, low-threaded loads can be distributed in such a way that some pairs of threads are sent to the same core, while some physical cores remain free. As one can see on the screenshot, with the E-cores disabled and a 8-threaded task, the Windows 11 scheduler sends computing threads to the logical cores closest to each other, which are actually one physical core with Hyper-Threading support, and even constantly shuffles them.


ghost spectre superlight has something disabled that makes P core only good,
P + E on it is terrible.


----------



## Groove2013

cstkl1 said:


> ghost spectre superlight has something disabled that makes P core only good,
> P + E on it is terrible.


On standard Win 10, P + E is also trash.
Only with P-cores you should use Win 10.

With E-cores, Win 11 is the only solution.
With P-cores only - Win 10, as for now.

No idea if or when Microsoft will fix the Scheduler on Win 11, when using it with E-cores disabled.


----------



## Sarzinski

If you aren't running professional applications and don't care about efficiency, e-cores are useless anyway.

I've tried more than just a few games with and without e-cores and the results were pretty clearly in favor of using only p-cores.

For the most part we are talking just a couple %, but some titles saw up to 8% advantage for p-cores only. So if you are a typical gamer, the increased ring speed is more important than having extra cores that aren't needed anyway. Don't forget that 8 p-cores alone already have very significant multithreaded performance.


----------



## dante`afk

12900KF

X31 SP84
V38 SP88 (97 p cores).

i'm waiting for one more delivery and then I'm done, can't be bothered to keep searching


----------



## flashkillpro

Has anybody got a good DDR4 RAM OC on a Gigabyte board? My b-die 3600mhz 16-16-16-36 XMP profile didn't even post. Luckily I was able to get it running manually at those timings, but with worse sub-timings in the bios. I left those on auto and eventually it worked. 3600mhz is the limit though right now, 3700mhz not fully stable.

Is per-core overclocking possible/useful on Gigabyte boards? I have seen that some ASUS boards can read out the VF-curve. Any way to do that on other mobos?


----------



## gtz

Exilon said:


> I expect Microsoft will fix it soon enough. 6+0 Alder Lake launches at CES.


Priced right this will be the go to gaming beast.


----------



## ObviousCough

flashkillpro said:


> Has anybody got a good DDR4 RAM OC on a Gigabyte board?


No


----------



## skullbringer

6000cl40 xmp finished tm5 [email protected] on 0806 with +0.2 offset Vsa and auto Vmc


----------



## Ichirou

Sarzinski said:


> If you aren't running professional applications and don't care about efficiency, e-cores are useless anyway.
> 
> I've tried more than just a few games with and without e-cores and the results were pretty clearly in favor of using only p-cores.
> 
> For the most part we are talking just a couple %, but some titles saw up to 8% advantage for p-cores only. So if you are a typical gamer, the increased ring speed is more important than having extra cores that aren't needed anyway. Don't forget that 8 p-cores alone already have very significant multithreaded performance.


What core/thread does the PC run in with E-cores disabled? 8/16?


----------



## Zyther

Is Big SP P cores and small SP E cores?


----------



## ChaosAD

Ichirou said:


> What core/thread does the PC run in with E-cores disabled? 8/16?


Yes P cores only is 8/16


----------



## Arni90

geriatricpollywog said:


> Doing a bit better than I was before, but still room for improvement.
> 
> 12900k 5.5ghz all core e cores off
> ring 49.5
> mem 4179 14-15-15-28
> 
> View attachment 2535581


MSI PRO Z690-A BIOS 115U3
I can finally push dual rank memory to some degree.

Dual Rank B-die DDR4-4133 @ 14-15-15-16-2T
5.39 GHz P-cores
5.05 GHz ring








Intel Core i9 12900K @ 5394.24 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


[yp3vws] Validated Dump by Arni90 (2021-12-05 03:36:47) - MB: MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4(MS-7D25) - RAM: 32768 MB




valid.x86.fr















Unfortunately, even this setup (which isn't exactly running daily-able clocks) is unable to catch single rank B-die in 1T at 4266. And there's no way to stabilize 1T at these frequencies.
My record on single rank was 358 fps, and that was with the core only running at 5.30 GHz, I'll try to push that setup a bit tomorrow to compare

It's likely that "optimal" DDR4 performance is limited to 16GB, which simply isn't sufficient for such a platform and CPU in my opinion


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Arni90 said:


> MSI PRO Z690-A BIOS 115U3
> I can finally push dual rank memory to some degree.
> 
> Dual Rank B-die DDR4-4133 @ 14-15-15-16-2T
> 5.39 GHz P-cores
> 5.05 GHz ring
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9 12900K @ 5394.24 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
> 
> 
> [yp3vws] Validated Dump by Arni90 (2021-12-05 03:36:47) - MB: MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4(MS-7D25) - RAM: 32768 MB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> valid.x86.fr
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2535668
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, even this setup (which isn't exactly running daily-able clocks) is unable to catch single rank B-die in 1T at 4266. And there's no way to stabilize 1T at these frequencies.
> My record on single rank was 358 fps, and that was with the core only running at 5.30 GHz, I'll try to push that setup a bit tomorrow to compare
> 
> It's likely that "optimal" DDR4 performance is limited to 16GB, which simply isn't sufficient for such a platform and CPU in my opinion


I see this result is at 720p. Do you have 1080p results?


----------



## Arni90

geriatricpollywog said:


> I see this result is at 720p. Do you have 1080p results?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Arni90 said:


> View attachment 2535673


I'm trying to figure out why I'm getting 10-20fps lower than I should, considering my CPU and RAM OCs. I am going to try a clean Windows 10 install.


----------



## jomama22

geriatricpollywog said:


> I'm trying to figure out why I'm getting 10-20fps lower than I should, considering my CPU and RAM OCs. I am going to try a clean Windows 10 install.


It's because you have hyper threading on


----------



## jomama22

Arni90 said:


> View attachment 2535673


I think he means 1080p and resolution modifier set to 100...


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

geriatricpollywog said:


> I'm trying to figure out why I'm getting 10-20fps lower than I should, considering my CPU and RAM OCs. I am going to try a clean Windows 10 install.


Try win 11 and u will get 10 more fps I think.


----------



## Groove2013

geriatricpollywog said:


> Doing a bit better than I was before, but still room for improvement.
> 
> 12900k 5.5ghz all core e cores off
> ring 49.5
> mem 4179 14-15-15-28
> 
> View attachment 2535581


What are your RAM timings (ASRock Timing Configurator 4.0.13)?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> What are your RAM timings (ASRock Timing Configurator 4.0.13)?



View attachment 2535689


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Getting there












jomama22 said:


> It's because you have hyper threading on


Thank you. I think this was it.


----------



## Groove2013

geriatricpollywog said:


> View attachment 2535689


Have you tried lower than 8 RDRD and WRWR? + lower than 69 RTL?
Also try RAS 15 instead of 28.


----------



## Ichirou

geriatricpollywog said:


> View attachment 2535689


Number of DIMMs, VDIMM, and capacity?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> Have you tried lower than 8 RDRD and WRWR? + lower than 69 RTL?
> Also try RAS 15 instead of 28.


Those settings don't work well on my setup.


Ichirou said:


> Number of DIMMs, VDIMM, and capacity?


I has this kit
F4-4000C14D-32GTEG-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd. (gskill.com)


----------



## Ichirou

geriatricpollywog said:


> Those settings don't work well on my setup.
> 
> I has this kit
> F4-4000C14D-32GTEG-G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd. (gskill.com)


Ah, the 4,000 CL14 kit. I see; makes sense 

How hard was it to find that unicorn in stock? Lol


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Ichirou said:


> Ah, the 4,000 CL14 kit. I see; makes sense
> 
> How hard was it to find that unicorn in stock? Lol


It was in stock on Newegg for weeks before I pulled the trigger. I binned 3 kits before finding this one.

This kit will keep me warm and cozy throughout the DDR5 winter.


----------



## Ichirou

geriatricpollywog said:


> It was in stock on Newegg for weeks before I pulled the trigger. I binned 3 kits before finding this one.
> 
> This kit will keep me warm and cozy throughout the DDR5 winter.


Looking back at PPP's price history, damn that is expensive. $535 USD per 2x16 GB. Insane.
Trying to get 64 GB would cost a bit under double the price of my kit for what would amount to barely any meaningful benefit...


----------



## ChaosAD

What is the best way to test uncore on 12900K?

Edit: If unstable, Cpu L2 Volt is for Uncore?


----------



## ogider

ChaosAD said:


> What is the best way to test uncore on 12900K?


For me....XTU with cpu test . I had bsod/error after few min with E40 43 cache


----------



## Antsu

jomama22 said:


> I think he means 1080p and resolution modifier set to 100...


I think 720p/50% should be the new standard. 1080p is starting to get GPU bottlenecked with a 3090 @ 2235Mhz...


----------



## sugi0lover

[My first try with bclk OC DDR5 - latency test]
○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / bclk 102.90 / e-cores off
○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 6585Mhz-30-37-37-26-280-1T
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0806)
○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.420v(llc7) / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.435v / MC 1.300v / SA Auto
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.





















[My first try with bclk OC DDR5 - stable setting] 
○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / bclk 101.60
○ Ram OC : 6502hz-30-37-37-26-280-1T 
○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.330v(llc7) / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.435v / MC 1.300v / SA Auto


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> [My first try with bclk OC DDR5 - latency test]
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / bclk 102.90 / e-cores off
> ○ Ram : Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 6585Mhz-30-37-37-26-280-1T
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0806)
> ○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.420v(llc7) / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.435v / MC 1.300v / SA Auto
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.
> View attachment 2535706
> 
> View attachment 2535707
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [My first try with bclk OC DDR5 - stable setting]
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / bclk 101.60
> ○ Ram OC : 6502hz-30-37-37-26-280-1T
> ○ Voltages (Bios) : CPU 1.330v(llc7) / VDD 1.435v / VDDQ 1.435v / MC 1.300v / SA Auto
> View attachment 2535708
> 
> View attachment 2535709


aida bclk bug


----------



## sugi0lover

cstkl1 said:


> aida bclk bug


Really? I keep getting around that latency. Not just one good latency. Maybe you're right.


----------



## cstkl1

sugi0lover said:


> Really? I keep getting around that latency. Not just one good latency. Maybe you're right.


think i showed before bclk 200 ..
2x ns? 2xx gb/s??


----------



## sugi0lover

cstkl1 said:


> think i showed before bclk 200 ..
> 2x ns? 2xx gb/s??


I remembered it now. That setting is direct boot from bios and I can't boot above bclk 103. 200 is impossible for me to boot at all.


----------



## sugi0lover

looks like bclk oc has aida64 bench bug.
This is normal latency with no bclk oc.


----------



## Shonk

Is everyone else getting this event log spam?


*The description for Event ID 56 from source Application Popup cannot be found. Either the component that raises this event is not installed on your local computer or the installation is corrupted.
ACPI
2*


The speed of processor 16 in group 0 is *being limited by system firmware*. The processor has been in this reduced performance state for 71 seconds since the last report.
The speed of processor 17 in group 0 is being limited by system firmware. The processor has been in this reduced performance state for 71 seconds since the last report.
The speed of processor 18 in group 0 is being limited by system firmware. The processor has been in this reduced performance state for 71 seconds since the last report.
The speed of processor 19 in group 0 is being limited by system firmware. The processor has been in this reduced performance state for 71 seconds since the last report.
The speed of processor 20 in group 0 is being limited by system firmware. The processor has been in this reduced performance state for 71 seconds since the last report.
The speed of processor 21 in group 0 is being limited by system firmware. The processor has been in this reduced performance state for 71 seconds since the last report.
The speed of processor 22 in group 0 is being limited by system firmware. The processor has been in this reduced performance state for 71 seconds since the last report.
The speed of processor 23 in group 0 is being limited by system firmware. The processor has been in this reduced performance state for 71 seconds since the last report.

i9 12900K
Z690 Aorus Master
2 x 32GB 4800 Micron DR @ 5200 36-37-37-42 1.260V
Windows 10 21H2

Base CLock = 100.30
DDR5 XMP Booster = Micron 5200 38-38-38-83-1.250
CPU Vcore = Normal
CPU Vcore Loadline Calibration = Normal
Dynamic Vcore = -0.035V
Internal VCCSA = 1.100V (Auto was 1.342V)
DRAM Vdd/VddQ = 1.260V
VDD2 CPU = 1.200V

Active Turbo Ratios
52,51,50,50,50,50,50,50
40,40,40,40,40,40,40,40

CAS = 36
tRCD = 37
TRP = 37
tRAS = 42
tRFC = 380
tRFC2 = 380
tFAW = 32


----------



## darth_meh

Shonk said:


> Is everyone else getting this event log spam?
> 
> 
> *The description for Event ID 56 from source Application Popup cannot be found. Either the component that raises this event is not installed on your local computer or the installation is corrupted.
> ACPI
> 2*
> 
> The speed of processor 16 in group 0 is *being limited by system firmware*. The processor has been in this reduced performance state for 71 seconds since the last report.


I saw those messages on my Z690 Apex and Z690 Extreme.


----------



## Shonk

Does Anyone have any experience with

"Disk has been surprised removed"

all 3 sata drives did this just now in a 700fps load screen in final fantasy 14

I presume its one of these 4 causing it

Dynamic Vcore = -0.035V
Internal VCCSA = 1.100V (Auto was 1.342V)
DRAM Vdd/VddQ = 1.260V
VDD2 CPU = 1.200V


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

sugi0lover said:


> looks like bclk oc has aida64 bench bug.
> This is normal latency with no bclk oc.
> View attachment 2535717


Gaming benchmark with this setting?


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> looks like bclk oc has aida64 bench bug.
> This is normal latency with no bclk oc.
> View attachment 2535717


5.7 GHz all-core? 5.3 GHz uncore? Damn, what kind of a golden sample did you get? SP score?

And how hard was it to get the RAM?


----------



## WebsterRKL

Ichirou said:


> 5.7 GHz all-core? 5.3 GHz uncore? Damn, what kind of a golden sample did you get? SP score?
> 
> And how hard was it to get the RAM?


5.7Ghz all-core? Naw, that's gotta be Single Thread. 

Still awesome CPU.


----------



## Ichirou

WebsterRKL said:


> 5.7Ghz all-core? Naw, that's gotta be Single Thread.
> 
> Still awesome CPU.


CPU-Z readout says 8/16 though.


----------



## Arni90

cstkl1 said:


> think i showed before bclk 200 ..
> 2x ns? 2xx gb/s??


Oh wow, you weren't joking 









Who needs DDR5 when DDR4 can achieve this?


----------



## Ichirou

Arni90 said:


> Oh wow, you weren't joking
> View attachment 2535745
> 
> 
> Who needs DDR5 when DDR4 can achieve this?


***, how? lol

Tight subtimings I'm guessing?


----------



## Arni90

Ichirou said:


> ***, how? lol
> 
> Tight subtimings I'm guessing?


180 MHz base clock

EDIT: And it's obviously not real


----------



## Ichirou

Arni90 said:


> 180 MHz base clock
> 
> EDIT: And it's obviously not real


180.0 BCLK huh... With what CPU core/cache then? All toned down?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Ichirou said:


> 5.7 GHz all-core? 5.3 GHz uncore? Damn, what kind of a golden sample did you get? SP score?
> 
> And how hard was it to get the RAM?


Sugi’s results are legit but he bins a lot of CPUs so you shouldn’t feel bad if yours can’t match.


----------



## gnasherrr

I'm missing quite a party here.
Did some couple sottr runs with my 6600 30-38 1t stable profile on 57 to 54 turbo ratio oc and 51x ring. No nis or resolution switching like certain ppl here like to do. Notice the 1080p gpu bound numbers lmao.
Gpu is 3080ti 350w 2x8pin stock on water no oc.
No idea how it ranks up to other ppls runs on ddr4 or ddr5 please let me know


----------



## geriatricpollywog

gnasherrr said:


> I'm missing quite a party here.
> Did some couple sottr runs with my 6600 30-38 1t stable profile on 57 to 54 turbo ratio oc and 51x ring. No nis or resolution switching like certain ppl here like to do. Notice the 1080p gpu bound numbers lmao.
> Gpu is 3080ti 350w 2x8pin stock on water no oc.
> No idea how it ranks up to other ppls runs on ddr4 or ddr5 please let me know
> View attachment 2535761
> 
> View attachment 2535763


Here is the DDR4 result I posted yesterday. I hope to get 360fps soon.

If you are 100% GPU bound, then there is really no point in tuning your CPU further for gaming performance. Or you need a better GPU for the 12900K.

I wouldn't worry too much about 19% since that should only affect the highs, not the lows. You should still have plenty of headroom.


----------



## gnasherrr

geriatricpollywog said:


> Here is the DDR4 result I posted yesterday. I hope to get 360fps soon.
> 
> If you are 100% GPU bound, then there is really no point in tuning your CPU further for gaming performance. Or you need a better GPU for the 12900K.
> 
> I wouldn't worry too much about 19% since that should only affect the highs, not the lows. You should still have plenty of headroom.


gotcha! no idea im just running that benchmark cuz apparently ppl use it to compare ddr4 to ddr5 often


----------



## WebsterRKL

Ichirou said:


> CPU-Z readout says 8/16 though.


All that tells me is hyperthreading is enabled. 

Not certain how CPU-Z can read the difference between all cores set at 57 profile and a Per Core user defined profile with single core set at 57 and remaining cores set to auto.

Would be amazing if 5.7Ghz all-core is possible with ambient cooling though, outstanding. 

This screenshot below, it looks like I'm running an all-core 5.5Ghz profile, every core "does indeed" hit 5.5Ghz, but not simultaneously.  It's only a single-core set to 55 and all other cores set to auto.

All-Core or Per-Core? I guess we just have to take the user's word for it.


----------



## sugi0lover

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Gaming benchmark with this setting?


I will try it later. Is p cores only with high cache in win11 better than all e cores together?


Ichirou said:


> 5.7 GHz all-core? 5.3 GHz uncore? Damn, what kind of a golden sample did you get? SP score?
> 
> And how hard was it to get the RAM?


It's SP103. Hynix is still hard to get in Korea.


WebsterRKL said:


> 5.7Ghz all-core? Naw, that's gotta be Single Thread.
> 
> Still awesome CPU.


With e cores off, all p cores (ht on) + high cache is not that hard at water temp 20c.


Arni90 said:


> Oh wow, you weren't joking
> View attachment 2535745
> 
> 
> Who needs DDR5 when DDR4 can achieve this?


Check my video. It's aida64 bug.
[Edit : screenshot added]


----------



## sugi0lover

WebsterRKL said:


> All that tells me is hyperthreading is enabled.
> 
> Not certain how CPU-Z can read the difference between all cores set at 57 profile and a Per Core user defined profile with single core set at 57 and remaining cores set to auto.
> 
> Would be amazing if 5.7Ghz all-core is possible with ambient cooling though, outstanding.
> 
> This screenshot below, it looks like I'm running an all-core 5.5Ghz profile, every core "does indeed" hit 5.5Ghz, but not simultaneously.  It's only a single-core set to 55 and all other cores set to auto.
> 
> All-Core or Per-Core? I guess we just have to take the user's word for it.
> 
> View attachment 2535788


This is all p 5.7ghz with e cores together.
With e cores off, a lot easier.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> This is all p 5.7ghz with e cores together.
> With e cores off, a lot easier.


I'm guessing you're using a water loop with MO-RA?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> I'm guessing you're using a water loop with MO-RA?


Yes. You can see my cooling description feom youtube.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> Yes. You can see my cooling description feom youtube.


Ah, missed that bit. Thanks


----------



## domdtxdissar

Arni90 said:


> Oh wow, you weren't joking
> View attachment 2535745
> 
> 
> Who needs DDR5 when DDR4 can achieve this?


Wonder if this is related to the numbers i can get with Zen3
Aida64 pretty much only "measure the performance in aida64" itself, and dont always correlate to real world performance/numbers..


----------



## Antsu

sugi0lover said:


> This is all p 5.7ghz with e cores together.
> With e cores off, a lot easier.


Man, that's sick. I need 1.57V LLC5 for 5.5Ghz 8C8T to pass SOTTR bench at ~20C or less water temp... SP81 life...


----------



## cstkl1

i9-12900k - SP93
Asus MZ690 Apex - Bios 0806
G.Skill 2x16gb 6600 28-37-37-28 280 1T @1.65
SA|txvddq|mc - 0.9 |1.45|1.45

if only could buy better rams


----------



## safedisk

xl_digit said:


> still nothing is working with XMP2 -> i know 2 other people with the Z690 Apex + *Gskill F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5RK
> all of theme have the same issue -> System post is no problem, but massiv crashes when testing memory in Windows (TestMem5)*
> 
> i already raised VDD + VDDQ in steps of 0.1V from 1.3V to 1.4V and SA / IMC from 1.1 to 1.25 nothing helps to get stability.
> 
> i testet BIOS 0702/0802/0803/0804 and the 0093 already.
> 
> *this is so disapointing.
> 
> @safedisk / @shamino1978 can you please give advices and have a focus to this problem.
> 
> View attachment 2535457
> *

















































Hello Sorry
I got the 0806 bios from shamino and tested it.
I just set xmp TM5 running doesn't seem to be a problem
you can try 0806
Thanks!









ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-0806.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## jeiselramos

cstkl1 said:


> i9-12900k - SP93
> Asus MZ690 Apex - Bios 0806
> G.Skill 2x16gb 6600 28-37-37-28 280 1T @1.65
> SA|txvddq|mc - 0.9 |1.45|1.45
> 
> if only could buy better rams


Where did you download this version of runmemtestpro?

Inviato dal mio IN2023 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## ChaosAD

Cpu L2 Volt is used for stabilizing uncore?


----------



## Smaz

Hello! Some overclocking pro could give me some easy settings for Gaming, it's the first K I have and I don't understand much about OC and when I read you I get lost. I have a 12900K with ram dd4 at 4133 cl 15 with latencys of 47ns, cooler Artic freezer 420. I would look for a stable value easy to get, I suppose that for gaming I would have to raise the monocore but if I set it to 54 after a while the pc crashes I suppose that I will have to raise some voltage. Thank you


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Most chip will do ddr4 4000c15 in gear 1 or need a binned chip guys?


----------



## neteng101

On my 2nd 12700k now - looks about the same for core/uncore OC - 5.1P, 4.0E, 4.3R - 1.30v Core, 1.25v L2-E and 5.2P all-core doesn't look achievable/worthwhile, tried up to 1.34v Core, I think this chip is a bit better but still not good enough. Might be able to do it with better cooling and even more Core voltage but doesn't seem worthwhile.


----------



## LionAlonso

Its occt avx small extreme stable at that vcore? 
seems too low for a 12700k bin.


----------



## neteng101

LionAlonso said:


> Its occt avx small extreme stable at that vcore?
> seems too low for a 12700k bin.


Still working through my stability progressions - will try it out and report back. I did try that H265 Handbrake encoding test on the other chip and some OCCT tests, can't remember which exactly.

Edit - good call, instant crash! Trying 1.34V, LLC 6 (MSI is opposite of Asus, that's a mid-low LLC, LLC 8 is lowest, I like a bit of Vdroop under load, found it to work well back when I had my 9900k). Errors after a minute - but its actually an E-core. Got more work to do.

1.36V LLC6 Core seems to be holding up, letting it run.


----------



## Brandur

safedisk said:


> View attachment 2535817
> 
> 
> View attachment 2535818
> 
> 
> View attachment 2535819
> 
> 
> View attachment 2535820
> 
> 
> View attachment 2535821
> 
> 
> 
> Hello Sorry
> I got the 0806 bios from shamino and tested it.
> I just set xmp TM5 running doesn't seem to be a problem
> you can try 0806
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-0806.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com



I just tested the 0806 Bios and keep getting BSODs, when using XMP I or II. Only when i tweak the Voltages I can get it stable for a while, until it suddenly crashes again. I am so disappointed and really don't know what to do anymore...
Edit: In your BIOS ist says IMC Voltage „Auto“ and in Hwinfo ist says IMC @ 1.35V. If I put IMC Voltage at Auto, it sets IMC Voltage to 1.1V. Did you manually set IMC Voltage?


----------



## LionAlonso

neteng101 said:


> Still working through my stability progressions - will try it out and report back. I did try that H265 Handbrake encoding test on the other chip and some OCCT tests, can't remember which exactly.
> 
> Edit - good call, instant crash! Trying 1.34V, LLC 6 (MSI is opposite of Asus, that's a mid-low LLC, LLC 8 is lowest, I like a bit of Vdroop under load, found it to work well back when I had my 9900k). Errors after a minute - but its actually an E-core. Got more work to do.
> 
> 1.36V LLC6 Core seems to be holding up, letting it run.


Yeah it happens.
Anyways im sure more than 50% of the all core OCs posted here dont pass that test.
And well… its normal, in real use that workload never happens.
I would like a way to put an avx offset like before, and not per core, because its only effective in single thread.
That way you will have lower voltage gaming and it wont crash in avx because frequency goes down.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Most chip will do ddr4 4000c15 in gear 1 or need a binned chip guys?


My SP68 12700K, Sp84 12900K and SP89 12900K could all do 4100c14 gear 1 minimum with Gskill my 4000c14 2x16 kit. RAMs are important too.


----------



## neteng101

LionAlonso said:


> Anyways im sure more than 50% of the all core OCs posted here dont pass that test.
> And well… its normal, in real use that workload never happens.


It helps to have a hammer - extreme corner case, and you can dial it back from that if you can pass it. 1.36V LLC 6 seems to do it for me. Also noticing interesting behavior - lower E-core clock is actually less stable, so more than 3 ratios difference to uncore seems to not work. I wonder if the OCCT small hammers L1-L3 cache as well.

At 1.36V LLC 6 I pushed OCCT at 5.2P 4.0E 4.3R - ran for 15 minutes then crashed. So given the need to fix the E-cores, its almost gotten me to 5.2P stable too.

With my 9900k I could not even run the OCCT Small with AVX - it was too much for my old Z370 board to handle.


----------



## Xiph

Haven't tested OCCT Small, but I expect that Alder Lake fixed beta Prime95 small is even harder. (https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=27180 )
Test it and cry!

EDIT: Checked OCCT and Prime was only few wats harder. So both good extreme tests.


----------



## LionAlonso

Xiph said:


> Haven't tested OCCT Small, but I expect that Alder Lake fixed beta Prime95 small is even harder. (https://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=27180 )
> Test it and cry!
> 
> EDIT: Checked OCCT and Prime was only few wats harder. So both good extreme tests.


I always test them but is very probable that it can crash on those test and never crash in real life....


----------



## HiLuckyB

Something odd I have found is launching Minecraft Java hits my 12900KF to around 285 watts, Which is around the same load as I get running Cinebench R15.


----------



## LionAlonso

HiLuckyB said:


> Something odd I have found is launching Minecraft Java hits my 12900KF to around 285 watts, Which is around the same load as I get running Cinebench R15.


Same for warzone


----------



## sugi0lover

This is my cooling setup with 12900K.
- Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.


----------



## HiLuckyB

I have a MSI motherboard so I don't know what SP my 12900KF made in China V138J779 is but I'm kind of maxed out at 1 core 5.3GHz, 7 at 5.2GHz, And e-cores at 4.2GHz with around 1.35-1.36v.
I was hoping for more but I've kind of hit a wall, And I would have to run a waterchiller 24/7 to push more voltage 😂
I should say that's the max for daily use and doesn't blue screen when opening Minecraft Java 🤣

If anyone has a better bin 12900K/KF they might want to sell let me know!
I wish Silicon Lottery was still Binning CPU's 🥲


----------



## Ichirou

HiLuckyB said:


> I have a MSI motherboard so I don't know what SP my 12900KF made in China V138J779 is but I'm kind of maxed out at 1 core 5.3GHz, 7 at 5.2GHz, And e-cores at 4.2GHz with around 1.35-1.36v.
> I was hoping for more but I've kind of hit a wall, And I would have to run a waterchiller 24/7 to push more voltage 😂
> I should say that's the max for daily use and doesn't blue screen when opening Minecraft Java 🤣
> 
> If anyone has a better bin 12900K/KF they might want to sell let me know!
> I wish Silicon Lottery was still Binning CPU's 🥲


Just be patient; some people here will sell binned CPUs

I just bought one from @Carillo for like, $1050 USD, SP98. Pricey, I know, but the money's not a huge concern for me.


----------



## HiLuckyB

Ichirou said:


> Just be patient; some people here will sell binned CPUs
> 
> I just bought one from @Carillo for like, $1050 USD, SP98. Pricey, I know, but the money's not a huge concern for me.


That's not to bad really. I know the amount of time it takes to find some good chips, So I don't have a problem paying for it.
I bought a binned 10980XE when they came out and that chip was not cheap 😅
If I had the time I would try to bin some, But not going to happen right now.


----------



## CallMeODZ

Ichirou said:


> Just be patient; some people here will sell binned CPUs
> 
> I just bought one from @Carillo for like, $1050 USD, SP98. Pricey, I know, but the money's not a huge concern for me.


with money to burn like that, you should pay Frame Chasers for an optimisation


----------



## safedisk

Brandur said:


> I just tested the 0806 Bios and keep getting BSODs, when using XMP I or II. Only when i tweak the Voltages I can get it stable for a while, until it suddenly crashes again. I am so disappointed and really don't know what to do anymore...
> Edit: In your BIOS ist says IMC Voltage „Auto“ and in Hwinfo ist says IMC @ 1.35V. If I put IMC Voltage at Auto, it sets IMC Voltage to 1.1V. Did you manually set IMC Voltage?


No Other Voltage all auto only vdd vddq 1.3v
I only changed the GEN speed for my 980pro and VGA (730GT Gen3 , 980PRO Gen4)
Have you tried change the memory slots on the 2stick as well?


----------



## Ichirou

HiLuckyB said:


> That's not to bad really. I know the amount of time it takes to find some good chips, So I don't have a problem paying for it.
> I bought a binned 10980XE when they came out and that chip was not cheap 😅
> If I had the time I would try to bin some, But not going to happen right now.


The main justification was that initially I swore I'd never swap off of my 8086k, but we all know that that never really happens, so since it's already a few gens back, I figured that it was all right to upgrade.

Besides, with a good bin and 8/16 P-core only, I think that'll last me quite some time. I'm not ditching my old mobo+cpu just yet in case something goes south. I probably won't upgrade again for the foreseeable future.

...See you again in a few gens


----------



## morph.

HiLuckyB said:


> I have a MSI motherboard so I don't know what SP my 12900KF made in China V138J779 is but I'm kind of maxed out at 1 core 5.3GHz, 7 at 5.2GHz, And e-cores at 4.2GHz with around 1.35-1.36v.
> I was hoping for more but I've kind of hit a wall, And I would have to run a waterchiller 24/7 to push more voltage 😂
> I should say that's the max for daily use and doesn't blue screen when opening Minecraft Java 🤣
> 
> If anyone has a better bin 12900K/KF they might want to sell let me know!
> I wish Silicon Lottery was still Binning CPU's 🥲


Have you tried lowering your e-cores to say x40 for now and see if you can take your p-cores further?


----------



## Falkentyne

HiLuckyB said:


> Something odd I have found is launching Minecraft Java hits my 12900KF to around 285 watts, Which is around the same load as I get running Cinebench R15.


Minecraft Java (loading) and Cinebench R15 require the same load vmin (with E cores disabled) to not crash/BSOD randomly on load.
Both Minecraft java and R15 do NOT use AVX instructions at all. Yet for some reason, they both seem to require slightly more load vmin to pass, than R20 and R23 do, at least with the E cores disabled.

With the E cores enabled, Minecraft Java (loading) seems to require less vcore than R15 does. No idea why that is.


----------



## HiLuckyB

Falkentyne said:


> Minecraft Java (loading) and Cinebench R15 require the same load vmin (with E cores disabled) to not crash/BSOD randomly on load.
> Both Minecraft java and R15 do NOT use AVX instructions at all. Yet for some reason, they both seem to require slightly more load vmin to pass, than R20 and R23 do, at least with the E cores disabled.
> 
> With the E cores enabled, Minecraft Java (loading) seems to require less vcore than R15 does. No idea why that is.


Happy to see it's not just me, I thought I was pretty stable until I randomly tried to open minecraft and blue screen 🤣


----------



## Ichirou

Falkentyne said:


> Minecraft Java (loading) and Cinebench R15 require the same load vmin (with E cores disabled) to not crash/BSOD randomly on load.
> Both Minecraft java and R15 do NOT use AVX instructions at all. Yet for some reason, they both seem to require slightly more load vmin to pass, than R20 and R23 do, at least with the E cores disabled.
> 
> With the E cores enabled, Minecraft Java (loading) seems to require less vcore than R15 does. No idea why that is.


So do you advise leaving at least one E-core enabled (if that's a possible option)?


----------



## Falkentyne

Ichirou said:


> So do you advise leaving at least one E-core enabled (if that's a possible option)?


I never tested such a configuration. Nor do I think even one E core active would like a x49 ring ratio.
I think my x53 P core only profile with x49 ring (either 1.500v Bios set + LLC3 for manual vcore, or adaptive voltage (left at auto as adaptive only applies if it's higher than VID and I forgot the VID anyway, 1.35+ something) with a certain ACLL + LLC3 + either negative, positive or no V/F point offsets (again I don't remember and i'm too busy with my chess) + Thermal Velocity Boost optimizations enabled--i don't have the settings in front of me since I'm usually studying chess and Stockfish likes all the E cores enabled for fastest hash rate) gives 1.323v under load in Minecraft loading. Just enough to stay under 100C but high enough vcore to not randomly hard lock or BSOD.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Hopefully still room to grow


----------



## skullbringer

safedisk said:


> Hello Sorry
> I got the 0806 bios from shamino and tested it.
> I just set xmp TM5 running doesn't seem to be a problem
> you can try 0806
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-0806.rar
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


I have the same issue with Samsung based 6000 4040, some boot no errors in tm5 and then just freeze and reset, some boot 100 errors after a few minutes, some boot finishes 2 hours of tm5 with 1-2 erros


----------



## cstkl1

skullbringer said:


> I have the same issue with Samsung based 6000 4040, some boot no errors in tm5 and then just freeze and reset, some boot 100 errors after a few minutes, some boot finishes 2 hours of tm5 with 1-2 erros


your gskill 6kc40 are samsung??


----------



## marti69

HiLuckyB said:


> I have a MSI motherboard so I don't know what SP my 12900KF made in China V138J779 is but I'm kind of maxed out at 1 core 5.3GHz, 7 at 5.2GHz, And e-cores at 4.2GHz with around 1.35-1.36v.
> I was hoping for more but I've kind of hit a wall, And I would have to run a waterchiller 24/7 to push more voltage 😂
> I should say that's the max for daily use and doesn't blue screen when opening Minecraft Java 🤣
> 
> If anyone has a better bin 12900K/KF they might want to sell let me know!
> I wish Silicon Lottery was still Binning CPU's 🥲


i have a 12900k sp91 {p core sp 99 e core sp 77} delided for sell,i hit 5.6ghz boost 2 core and 5.4ghz on all core with 1.42v llc5 on maximus z690 hero costum loop temps are around 72 75c on cinebench r23


----------



## Nizzen

So is DDR 5 worth it in any scenario over DDR 4 on AlderLake?
Looks like it:








Source:


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> So is DDR 5 worth it in any scenario over DDR 4 on AlderLake?
> Looks like it:
> View attachment 2536049


this silly right bro when they have nvenc?
y use adobe media encoder?? 



Nizzen said:


> So is DDR 5 worth it in any scenario over DDR 4 on AlderLake?
> Looks like it:
> View attachment 2536049


on other note. heard direct die block eta soon.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-12900K Processor,ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4 (3dmark.com)

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-12900K Processor,ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4 (3dmark.com)


----------



## skullbringer

cstkl1 said:


> your gskill 6kc40 are samsung??


yup, 5600 and 6000 c40 is samsung, below is micron, above like 6000c 36 is hynix afaik

btw let's call the ICs by their full name to avoid future confusion, Samsung 16 Gbit B-Die


----------



## StreaMRoLLeR

skullbringer said:


> yup, 5600 and 6000 c40 is samsung, below is micron, above like 6000c 36 is hynix afaik
> 
> btw let's call the ICs by their full name to avoid future confusion, Samsung 16 Gbit B-Die
> 
> View attachment 2536060





skullbringer said:


> yup, 5600 and 6000 c40 is samsung, below is micron, above like 6000c 36 is hynix afaik
> 
> btw let's call the ICs by their full name to avoid future confusion, Samsung 16 Gbit B-Die
> 
> View attachment 2536060


C36 5600 1.2v Gskill Z5 is Samsung aswell


----------



## SoldierRBT

skullbringer said:


> I have the same issue with Samsung based 6000 4040, some boot no errors in tm5 and then just freeze and reset, some boot 100 errors after a few minutes, some boot finishes 2 hours of tm5 with 1-2 erros


Use 0702 bios. It’s the only one that works for me for consistent stability. Change SA to 1.05v and 1.20v MC (or lower). Too much of these voltages cause freezes and BSOD. Also tweak DRAM CLK from 60-75. right number does wonder for stability and change ram to Mode 1


----------



## cstkl1

SoldierRBT said:


> Use 0702 bios. It’s the only one that works for me for consistent stability. Change SA to 1.05v and 1.20v MC (or lower). Too much of these voltages cause freezes and BSOD. Also tweak DRAM CLK from 60-75. right number does wonder for stability and change ram to Mode 1


hmm friend of mine says 0806 if he manually enters timing and voltage 6000c36 its stable. 
xmp is bugged. 

check please.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Okay I’ll try that bios later today. My kit is 5600C36 I use the asus 6000C32 profile for daily


----------



## cstkl1

SoldierRBT said:


> Okay I’ll try that bios later today. My kit is 5600C36 I use the asus 6000C32 profile for daily


1T?


----------



## SoldierRBT

cstkl1 said:


> 1T?


Yes 1T. 1.05v SA 1.15v MC 1.40v VDD/VDDQ/ TX VDDQ


----------



## matique

skullbringer said:


> yup, 5600 and 6000 c40 is samsung, below is micron, above like 6000c 36 is hynix afaik
> 
> btw let's call the ICs by their full name to avoid future confusion, Samsung 16 Gbit B-Die
> 
> View attachment 2536060












6000c36 can be samsung too  from my testing, same bin as 5600c36 tbh. Doesn't really overclock much better.


----------



## sugi0lover

matique said:


> 6000c36 can be samsung too  from my testing, same bin as 5600c36 tbh. Doesn't really overclock much better.


How much oc with 6000 cl36? I am going to get that kit this week.


----------



## matique

sugi0lover said:


> How much oc with 6000 cl36? I am going to get that kit this week.


same as 5600c36 samsung. They kind of suck, me and soldierRBT roughly doing the same daily, 6000c32, though i think his latency is lower.


----------



## Gandyman

Sorry for noob question but why are there so many 5.3 points on my v/f? 10900k had a 5.0 5.1 and 5.2 point. Do I need to manually change it somehow?


----------



## Ichirou

SoldierRBT said:


> Yes 1T. 1.05v SA 1.15v MC 1.40v VDD/VDDQ/ TX VDDQ


What is this "MC" voltage? And what did you notice when you raised VCCSA higher compared to lower? Counterproductive in terms of stability?
What would you say is a good VCCSA baseline to start from, and how did you find its optimal value?


----------



## SoldierRBT

Ichirou said:


> What is this "MC" voltage? And what did you notice when you raised VCCSA higher compared to lower? Counterproductive in terms of stability?
> What would you say is a good VCCSA baseline to start from, and how did you find its optimal value?


MC is memory controller voltage, basically IMC voltage. if you leave SA on auto with the 6000C32 profile it would be 1.25v SA. I really didn't test this much I just set default 1.05v and it's stable. MC voltage is important to set the correct value. I can pass TM5 Extreme with only 1.10v MC 6200C32 1T but sometimes may show an error restarts. 1.15v MC for my chip is stable on warm/cold boots.

DRAM CLK I think is the most important thing to set. 6200C32 1T has a 66 value already set which works perfectly with my chip. Another chip I had needed 68. Incorrect value would insta BSOD or show a lot of errors. My sticks also don't like high vdimm. 1.435v+ VDD/VDDQ/ TX VDDQ its unstable. If I these values from 1.40v-1.42v, it is stable, this is why I haven't been able to stabilize higher frequencies.


----------



## Ichirou

SoldierRBT said:


> MC is memory controller voltage, basically IMC voltage. if you leave SA on auto with the 6000C32 profile it would be 1.25v SA. I really didn't test this much I just set default 1.05v and it's stable. MC voltage is important to set the correct value. I can pass TM5 Extreme with only 1.10v MC 6200C32 1T but sometimes may show an error restarts. 1.15v MC for my chip is stable on warm/cold boots.
> 
> DRAM CLK I think is the most important thing to set. 6200C32 1T has a 66 value already set which works perfectly with my chip. Another chip I had needed 68. Incorrect value would insta BSOD or show a lot of errors. My sticks also don't like high vdimm. 1.435v+ VDD/VDDQ/ TX VDDQ its unstable. If I these values from 1.40v-1.42v, it is stable, this is why I haven't been able to stabilize higher frequencies.


Huh. Well TIL. You're the first person I saw so far that actually fiddled around with this "MC" voltage; nobody else has mentioned about it from what I can tell. It's always either VCCSA or VDDQ. 

What is DRAM CLK? Google says lower = better.


----------



## cstkl1

@SoldierRBT
dramclk 
66 is 5300 preset
68 is 5400 preset

@Ichirou

thought i told ppl here many many times after ppl been hoodwinked for years. what dram clk is.

as for the rest no comment. ddr5 has no right or wrong timing/voltage formulation cause its still new.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Ichirou said:


> Huh. Well TIL. You're the first person I saw so far that actually fiddled around with this "MC" voltage; nobody else has mentioned about it from what I can tell. It's always either VCCSA or VDDQ.
> 
> What is DRAM CLK? Google says lower = better.


Here's 1.05v SA 1.10v MC TM5 Extreme. For 100% stability in multiple restarts, I need 1.15v MC


----------



## penguin1717

Hi guys I found a way to estimate your SP rating if you do not have it in bios. Just set everything to default and read your cpu voltage at auto and cpu temps. If your voltage is lower you have a better sp rating. For now I found put that my cpu voltage at everything stock in bios is 1.296 to 1.305 at higher temps so this places my cpu at 77-79 sp rating. So that is trash bin sadly.


----------



## cstkl1

penguin1717 said:


> Hi guys I found a way to estimate your SP rating if you do not have it in bios. Just set everything to default and read your cpu voltage at auto and cpu temps. If your voltage is lower you have a better sp rating. For now I found put that my cpu voltage at everything stock in bios is 1.296 to 1.305 at higher temps so this places my cpu at 77-79 sp rating. So that is trash bin sadly.


thats not how it works. dont chase SP
clock your rams. chase imc if you need to compare.


----------



## penguin1717

cstkl1 said:


> thats not how it works. dont chase SP
> clock your rams. chase imc if you need to compare.


I do not understand. I want to check SP rating for cores not IMC. For cores core/cache voltage is important isn't it?


----------



## cstkl1

penguin1717 said:


> I do not understand. I want to check SP rating for cores not IMC. For cores core/cache voltage is important isn't it?


well adl has ipc scaling with ram first
example D4 apex legend 3440x1440 ultra etx 3090 strix stock

5.1ghz 3600c16 DR xmp -240fps
4.9ghz 3600c16 DR tightened -274fps
5.1ghz 3733c16 DR tight - 286fps
octvb +2 - 299 fps

SP has merit for chasing cpu after rams are perfect.

the owner of this rig now has 40% more fps than his previous 5900x docp with the same rams.. using less cpu power in game at arnd same temps.

ram oc requires a good cpu imc and board .


----------



## LionAlonso

cstkl1 said:


> well adl has ipc scaling with ram first
> example D4 apex legend 3440x1440 ultra etx 3090 strix stock
> 
> 5.1ghz 3600c16 DR xmp -240fps
> 4.9ghz 3600c16 DR tightened -274fps
> 5.1ghz 3733c16 DR tight - 286fps
> octvb +2 - 299 fps
> 
> SP has merit for chasing cpu after rams are perfect.
> 
> the owner of this rig now has 40% more fps than his previous 5900x docp with the same rams.. using less cpu power in game at arnd same temps.
> 
> ram oc requires a good cpu imc and board .


What are important timings for DRAM at intel?
I come from a 5900X and RN i have my DR ram at 4000 16 16 16 32 48 TRFC 340 with 1.45V ,1.2SA with 12900K
In ryzen i had it at 3800 but i could tighten secondaries (tfaw, trrds... etc....) but in intel i dont understand very good, any tips?


----------



## skullbringer

matique said:


> 6000c36 can be samsung too  from my testing, same bin as 5600c36 tbh. Doesn't really overclock much better.


ohhhh interesting, thank you for sharing!


----------



## cstkl1

LionAlonso said:


> What are important timings for DRAM at intel?
> I come from a 5900X and RN i have my DR ram at 4000 16 16 16 32 48 TRFC 340 with 1.45V ,1.2SA with 12900K
> In ryzen i had it at 3800 but i could tighten secondaries (tfaw, trrds... etc....) but in intel i dont understand very good, any tips?


turn around . dont use aida as absolute indicator. hci coverage speed + tm5 1usmusV3 cycle completion. 

u can achieve almost all gain from
ddr4 adl gear 1
trrd_sg/dg 4,4 with tfaw 16
then tighten all _dd/dr
this is where the biggest gain comes from for dr bdie.

then is the tcl with twcl pairing and reducing everything linked to it. followed by trfc, trefi, rtl.. 

if u can do cmd 1T.. that will threaten ddr5


----------



## ObviousCough

Is there anything like SpeedFan that works for Z690?


----------



## Falkentyne

ObviousCough said:


> Is there anything like SpeedFan that works for Z690?


Fancontrol on linustechtips somewhere.


----------



## cstkl1

@OLDFATSHEEP


>


guess giga cheating on cmd stretching for 1T. only asus mobo running correct 1T

in rkl msi unify used n:1 =3 as 1T right. i wonder did they use it now again. hmm

afaik memtweakit the only app that can show ppl running 1T or n:1
@Carillo
can u run memtweakit on your sr 4300 c14 1T

think we need a final answer what n:1 is.. its been years.


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> @OLDFATSHEEP
> 
> guess giga cheating on cmd stretching for 1T. only asus mobo running correct 1T
> 
> in rkl msi unify used n:1 =3 as 1T right. i wonder did they use it now again. hmm
> 
> afaik memtweakit the only app that can show ppl running 1T or n:1
> @Carillo
> can u run memtweakit on your sr 4300 c14 1T
> 
> think we need a final answer what n:1 is.. its been years.


After analyzing the buildzoid video, I can assume that cr1 is not real here.
With cl15 rtl - 69 69

For example, on msi at a frequency higher
With cl15 rtl - 67 69


Spoiler: 8*4 cr1














I once asked Shamino about the differences between 1N and N:1 n=1 on Asus boards . But unfortunately he did not answer me.
I do not know why. Perhaps if you ask him and he will tell us the difference. This will close many questions to which we have not known the answer for years.

_OptiMem III not marketing and only on it you can do this


Spoiler: 4600 _1717 Cr1 dr bdie Z490














Or so_


Spoiler: 4000 cr1















In the last picture, I do not believe in the truth of tCWL -13 / Because RPRE cannot be 1 and 2 at the same time.
Perhaps Shamino will answer what is the true tCWL used by the board in the last picture.


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> After analyzing the buildzoid video, I can assume that cr1 is not real here.
> With cl15 rtl - 69 69
> 
> For example, on msi at a frequency higher
> With cl15 rtl - 67 69
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 8*4 cr1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2536223
> 
> 
> 
> I once asked Shamino about the differences between 1N and N:1 n=1 on Asus boards . But unfortunately he did not answer me.
> I do not know why. Perhaps if you ask him and he will tell us the difference. This will close many questions to which we have not known the answer for years.
> 
> _OptiMem III not marketing and only on it you can do this
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 4600 _1717 Cr1 dr bdie Z490
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2536224
> 
> 
> 
> Or so_
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 4000 cr1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2536225
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the last picture, I do not believe in the truth of tCWL -13 / Because RPRE cannot be 1 and 2 at the same time.
> Perhaps Shamino will answer what is the true tCWL used by the board in the last picture.


hmm 15 with twcl 13 and trdwr 10 at 4k.. thats quite incredible.

buildzoidy has no clue the significance of running that stable 3866dr 1T. 

if that even remotely correct. .. then thats the board ppl should buy for ddr4 dr but his ram timing logic all messed up. 

must try again asus strix d4. 1T..
the fact it can boot.. i think can stabilize. just need time


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> hmm 15 with twcl 13 and trdwr 10 at 4k.. thats quite incredible.


yes an excellent result. but therefore I do not believe in the tCWL 13 on this screen. Most likely the apex used a different value - tCWL 14 is possible. Shamino will answer that question. He knows best. 
Odd timings have secrets we don't know


----------



## penguin1717

Hi all. Can anyone tell me is my method of predicting SP score correct or anything near. I reset everything to default settings then look at my stock voltage in bios. Mine at 30 C cpu temp is 1.296 to 1.305. I estimated that my SP score is from 77-79. Can it be determined that way? Did I really lost the lottery that bad?


----------



## Falkentyne

penguin1717 said:


> Hi all. Can anyone tell me is my method of predicting SP score correct or anything near. I reset everything to default settings then look at my stock voltage in bios. Mine at 30 C cpu temp is 1.296 to 1.305. I estimated that my SP score is from 77-79. Can it be determined that way? Did I really lost the lottery that bad?


We answered your question and you ignored the answer. Asking the same thing again twice just because you didn't approve of the answer is literally demented. There is no 'formula' we can tell you because it's based on a bunch of VF points and "possibly" also some other Asus calibrations they use, and if you don't have the V/F point plot points in your BIOS to even screenshot and post your V/F curve here, an if you can't use the Asus OCTool to plot the V/F points, well, buy a better motherboard is all we can say. 

In general, the lower your VID when you set FIXED (manual) Vcore and AC/DC loadlines to the lowest values of =1 (MSI, Gigabyte, X/100 mOhm=0.01), or 0.01 mohms (Asus), and Thermal Velocity Boost Voltage Optimizations=disabled, the better the chip is usually, but you still need a point of reference for comparison. You can look at the the VID results in windows at idle, at 4.8 ghz, 5.2 ghz and 5.3 ghz (with the E cores disabled AND C-states disabled) and then maybe compare the V/F points from what people posted in this thread and then get a very rough idea. That's the most we can tell you. TVB Voltage Optimizations must be disabled to get a proper result.

With TVB Voltage Optimizations=disabled and E cores disabled, a VID of 1.30v at 5.3 ghz (P cores synched) is usually a very good CPU sample.


----------



## penguin1717

Falkentyne said:


> We answered your question and you ignored the answer. Asking the same thing again twice just because you didn't approve of the answer is literally demented. There is no 'formula' we can tell you because it's based on a bunch of VF points and "possibly" also some other Asus calibrations they use, and if you don't have the V/F point plot points in your BIOS to even screenshot and post your V/F curve here, an if you can't use the Asus OCTool to plot the V/F points, well, buy a better motherboard is all we can say.
> 
> In general, the lower your VID when you set FIXED (manual) Vcore and AC/DC loadlines to the lowest values of =1 (MSI, Gigabyte, X/100 mOhm=0.01), or 0.01 mohms (Asus), and Thermal Velocity Boost Voltage Optimizations=disabled, the better the chip is usually, but you still need a point of reference for comparison. You can look at the the VID results in windows at idle, at 4.8 ghz, 5.2 ghz and 5.3 ghz (with the E cores disabled AND C-states disabled) and then maybe compare the V/F points from what people posted in this thread and then get a very rough idea. That's the most we can tell you. TVB Voltage Optimizations must be disabled to get a proper result.
> 
> With TVB Voltage Optimizations=disabled and E cores disabled, a VID of 1.30v at 5.3 ghz (P cores synched) is usually a very good CPU sample.


Ok I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone I am just not very experienced with oc or undervolting. Ill try your method when I get home later and tell you my vid using your method. Which voltage should I manually set when trying to read vid?


----------



## penguin1717

Also what is asus oc tool and can I use it with Tuf z690? I repeat I'm sorry if I ask dumb questions but I am just trying to learn.


----------



## Falkentyne

penguin1717 said:


> Also what is asus oc tool and can I use it with Tuf z690? I repeat I'm sorry if I ask dumb questions but I am just trying to learn.


You set the voltage your CPU is stable at to load windows.
No one can tell you what voltage to set. You need to find that out on your own.

You just need to set AC Loadline and DC Loadline to 0.01 in the BIOS (if it's there under cpu internal power management), and you must disable C-states and disable Thermal Velocity Boost Voltage Optimizations (TVB) then you can see the default VID when in windows under CPU VID for each cpu core (in hwinfo64 sensors area).
Once you get the VID values you want at x53 with the E cores disabled, be sure to set both AC and DC Loadline back to Auto.

Doesn't work on the TUF according to another person.
It's on hwbot on the Z690 Apex ADL Thread if you still want to try it. Should be somewhere on the last page here.





ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX | APEX 14


--- For Ambient behavior and DDR5 Voltage Basics there is already a perfect guide by Falkentyne in the ASUS ROG forum -> LINK -- - BCLK Buttons On the new Apex there are BCLK +/- Buttons For the onboard bclk buttons you will need to manually enable them in bios/tweakers paradise - Measurement ...



community.hwbot.org


----------



## penguin1717

Falkentyne said:


> You set the voltage your CPU is stable at to load windows.
> No one can tell you what voltage to set. You need to find that out on your own.
> 
> You just need to set AC Loadline and DC Loadline to 0.01 in the BIOS (if it's there under cpu internal power management), and you must disable C-states and disable Thermal Velocity Boost Voltage Optimizations (TVB) then you can see the default VID when in windows under CPU VID for each cpu core (in hwinfo64 sensors area).
> Once you get the VID values you want at x53 with the E cores disabled, be sure to set both AC and DC Loadline back to Auto.
> 
> Doesn't work on the TUF according to another person.
> It's on hwbot on the Z690 Apex ADL Thread if you still want to try it. Should be somewhere on the last page here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX | APEX 14
> 
> 
> --- For Ambient behavior and DDR5 Voltage Basics there is already a perfect guide by Falkentyne in the ASUS ROG forum -> LINK -- - BCLK Buttons On the new Apex there are BCLK +/- Buttons For the onboard bclk buttons you will need to manually enable them in bios/tweakers paradise - Measurement ...
> 
> 
> 
> community.hwbot.org


Ok thank you for your reply i will try that in about 8 hours when I get home and post results.


----------



## Carillo

cstkl1 said:


> @OLDFATSHEEP
> 
> guess giga cheating on cmd stretching for 1T. only asus mobo running correct 1T
> 
> in rkl msi unify used n:1 =3 as 1T right. i wonder did they use it now again. hmm
> 
> afaik memtweakit the only app that can show ppl running 1T or n:1
> @Carillo
> can u run memtweakit on your sr 4300 c14 1T
> 
> think we need a final answer what n:1 is.. its been years.


I no longer have the MSI board(ddr5 soon arriving for my Apex) , but i do run 4133 1T on my strix, but no reason to check Asus right ?


----------



## cstkl1

penguin1717 said:


> Hi all. Can anyone tell me is my method of predicting SP score correct or anything near. I reset everything to default settings then look at my stock voltage in bios. Mine at 30 C cpu temp is 1.296 to 1.305. I estimated that my SP score is from 77-79. Can it be determined that way? Did I really lost the lottery that bad?


dude. just game



Carillo said:


> I no longer have the MSI board(ddr5 soon arriving for my Apex) , but i do run 4133 1T on my strix, but no reason to check Asus right ?


asus accurate. i think msi too based the sottr performance

guess giga only


----------



## penguin1717

cstkl1 said:


> dude. just game


Yes I agree but when something is new I can't help myself I have to thinker something if there is more efficency or perofrmance to be extracted. In about month or two I will just game and leave everything as it is. If I knew TUF doesen't have SP score I would have bought Prime Z690A D4 as I have conteplated between the two but now ot is too late. Again sorry if I ask dumb questions. I'm new to all of this but thanks to you guys I learned a lot even if I am afraid to implement it sometimes


----------



## penguin1717

And the reason I would be annoyed if lost the lottery is that I already lost lottery on my last cpu 9900k and really hoped to have at least average sample this time not a bad one.


----------



## cstkl1

penguin1717 said:


> And the reason I would be annoyed if lost the lottery is that I already lost lottery on my last cpu 9900k and really hoped to have at least average sample this time not a bad one.


we get where you are coming from
but seriously just game and enjoy your comp

forums are bad for some ppl. it doesnt represent the majority but makes the real majority contemplate on things like this.


----------



## penguin1717

cstkl1 said:


> we get where you are coming from
> but seriously just game and enjoy your comp
> 
> forums are bad for some ppl. it doesnt represent the majority but makes the real majority contemplate on things like this.


I agree with all you said. I am not taking this too seriously. If it is that way I would already swapped my cpu but that is too much of a bother now. If it is a bad sample it is what it is. As I am saying in about month I will probably forget all about this and play games but now I will try to find out my vid as falken had suggested. Ty all for your inputs and time. Maybe this all conversation is not for nothing and maybe to someone else falkens suggestion will be useful also.


----------



## asdkj1740

Cooling issues with Intel’s Alder Lake - Problems with the LGA-1700 socket and a possible workaround | igor'sLAB


Badly fitting coolers, too low performance with actually good waterblocks and bent CPUs – meanwhile not only the feedback of the readers is piling up, but also very similar reports from the board…




www.igorslab.de




insane study on mounting pressure


----------



## LionAlonso

Falkentyne said:


> We answered your question and you ignored the answer. Asking the same thing again twice just because you didn't approve of the answer is literally demented. There is no 'formula' we can tell you because it's based on a bunch of VF points and "possibly" also some other Asus calibrations they use, and if you don't have the V/F point plot points in your BIOS to even screenshot and post your V/F curve here, an if you can't use the Asus OCTool to plot the V/F points, well, buy a better motherboard is all we can say.
> 
> In general, the lower your VID when you set FIXED (manual) Vcore and AC/DC loadlines to the lowest values of =1 (MSI, Gigabyte, X/100 mOhm=0.01), or 0.01 mohms (Asus), and Thermal Velocity Boost Voltage Optimizations=disabled, the better the chip is usually, but you still need a point of reference for comparison. You can look at the the VID results in windows at idle, at 4.8 ghz, 5.2 ghz and 5.3 ghz (with the E cores disabled AND C-states disabled) and then maybe compare the V/F points from what people posted in this thread and then get a very rough idea. That's the most we can tell you. TVB Voltage Optimizations must be disabled to get a proper result.
> 
> With TVB Voltage Optimizations=disabled and E cores disabled, a VID of 1.30v at 5.3 ghz (P cores synched) is usually a very good CPU sample.


Hi, could you explain what TVB voltage optimization does? 
have not found an explanation
also, if they are enabled, and you have disabled the boost profile at octvb, do they still work? 
thanks in advance


----------



## Sarzinski

skullbringer said:


> yup, 5600 and 6000 c40 is samsung, below is micron, above like 6000c 36 is hynix afaik
> 
> btw let's call the ICs by their full name to avoid future confusion, Samsung 16 Gbit B-Die
> 
> View attachment 2536060


I've seen at least 2 kits of 6000 c36 Trident Z RGBs that are Samsung.
I guess with G.Skill you really need to go for 6400 to reliably get Hynix, but I haven't seen those kits anywhere, yet. Seems to be review samples only so far.


----------



## asdkj1740

msi z690 qvl marks "samsung" and "samsung b".





MSI MEG Z690 UNIFY-X Gaming Motherboard ATX - Intel 12th Gen Processors - 19+2 Phase, DDR5, PCIe 5.0


The MEG Z690 UNIFY-X ATX motherboard features Direct 19+2 Phases and 105A SPS Power Solution, 4 x latest DDR5 DIMMs (dual channel) with Memory Boost architecture (6800+ MHz/OC), and dual steel-reinforced PCIe 5.0 x16 slot for heavy-duty GPU’s.




tw.msi.com


----------



## penguin1717

Hi all. I just tested


Falkentyne said:


> You set the voltage your CPU is stable at to load windows.
> No one can tell you what voltage to set. You need to find that out on your own.
> 
> You just need to set AC Loadline and DC Loadline to 0.01 in the BIOS (if it's there under cpu internal power management), and you must disable C-states and disable Thermal Velocity Boost Voltage Optimizations (TVB) then you can see the default VID when in windows under CPU VID for each cpu core (in hwinfo64 sensors area).
> Once you get the VID values you want at x53 with the E cores disabled, be sure to set both AC and DC Loadline back to Auto.


First of all Falkentyne thank you for your guide. I tested 3 ratios as per your guide 51x, 52x and 53x and the results are oh my where do I even start. 

51x is *1,370*v, 
52x as you have probably guessed is at *1,415*v and 
53x is at *1,460*v 

so it is easy to conclude that my P cores are absolute trash. According to this I conclude that it is possible to check how good is your CPU, at least P cores, when you see default voltage in BIOS at 49x ratio. I bet that anyone with 77-79 SP ratio CPU will have default bios voltage when they turn on PC for the fist time at around 1,296v (0,01v higher or lower) dpending on CPU temp. Using this method it is easy to estimate your SP score even if you don't have MB which supports it. In the end I lost the lottery once again . Is anyone willing to trade their average SP chip for small compensation? I'm open to offers as my 12900k is abysmal.


----------



## Ichirou

penguin1717 said:


> Hi all. I just tested
> 
> First of all Falkentyne thank you for your guide. I tested 3 ratios as per your guide 51x, 52x and 53x and the results are oh my where do I even start.
> 
> 51x is *1,370*v,
> 52x as you have probably guessed is at *1,415*v and
> 53x is at *1,460*v
> 
> so it is easy to conclude that my P cores are absolute trash. According to this I conclude that it is possible to check how good is your CPU, at least P cores, when you see default voltage in BIOS at 49x ratio. I bet that anyone with 77-79 SP ratio CPU will have default bios voltage when they turn on PC for the fist time at around 1,296v (0,01v higher or lower) dpending on CPU temp. Using this method it is easy to estimate your SP score even if you don't have MB which supports it. In the end I lost the lottery once again . Is anyone willing to trade their average SP chip for small compensation? I'm open to offers as my 12900k is abysmal.


Those certainly are some pretty abysmal numbers. That's probably somewhere in the sub-60s for SP rating.

Honestly, if you can, it might just be better to exchange the CPU with your store, if you are still in the refund period. That way, you can bin it again with a pretty decent chance of not getting another low-bin.


----------



## Falkentyne

penguin1717 said:


> Hi all. I just tested
> 
> First of all Falkentyne thank you for your guide. I tested 3 ratios as per your guide 51x, 52x and 53x and the results are oh my where do I even start.
> 
> 51x is *1,370*v,
> 52x as you have probably guessed is at *1,415*v and
> 53x is at *1,460*v
> 
> so it is easy to conclude that my P cores are absolute trash. According to this I conclude that it is possible to check how good is your CPU, at least P cores, when you see default voltage in BIOS at 49x ratio. I bet that anyone with 77-79 SP ratio CPU will have default bios voltage when they turn on PC for the fist time at around 1,296v (0,01v higher or lower) dpending on CPU temp. Using this method it is easy to estimate your SP score even if you don't have MB which supports it. In the end I lost the lottery once again . Is anyone willing to trade their average SP chip for small compensation? I'm open to offers as my 12900k is abysmal.


Have you actually tested your CPU in gaming?
Before you conclude that your P cores are bad, try using it.
Don't run a stress test as you are most likely not going to be able to cool the processor without a custom loop at >51

Try the following bios settings and see if you can play games stable. E cores disabled.

x53 sync all cores, ring down bin disabled, maximum ring ratio x48, Manual Voltage Bios set: 1.500v, LLC: level 3 (yes this is safe). Set max temperature threshold in CPU internal power management to 105C If this actually passes, try Ring ratio x49 (note, you may have to both set ring down bin=disabled and min and max ring ratio to x49, if you check in windows and it's not going past x47 or x48).

x52 sync all cores, ring down bin disabled, max ring x47, manual vcore bios set 1.410v, LLC level 4 (yes 4, not 3 this time)

x51 sync all cores, ring x47, manual vcore set 1.340v, LLC: level 4

Note:when you're finished with these if they're stable, save them as a profile. But before you re-enable the E cores, make sure you set ring down bin back to Auto, and set the ring ratios back to auto first.

A very very fast test is Java minecraft (not free, unfortunately). If you have it, try to repeatedly load the game to the main menu and exit, then load the game over and over.
Do that repeatedly. If you don't get a BSOD or a hard lock in 20 repeated load attempts, it means your CPU is game stable (at least on the P cores).
e.g. Battlefield 5 should run perfectly. You should have hwinfo64 running to check the temps.

You could also try Cinebench R15 (10 loops is good enough) but I doubt you will be able to cool the x53 setting (52 and 51 should be simple).


----------



## penguin1717

Ichirou said:


> Those certainly are some pretty abysmal numbers. That's probably somewhere in the sub-60s for SP rating.
> 
> Honestly, if you can, it might just be better to exchange the CPU with your store, if you are still in the refund period. That way, you can bin it again with a pretty decent chance of not getting another low-bin.


Sadly while I waited for my MB my refund period had passed. Maybe I'll try to sell it and take a hit. Is there anyone in EU on this forum (maybe US or Asia but know nothing about shipping) with average to good chip extra who is willing to sell or exchange it with me. I'll exchange mine dud chip and pay extra if someone is willing.


Falkentyne said:


> Have you actually tested your CPU in gaming?
> Before you conclude that your P cores are bad, try using it.
> Don't run a stress test as you are most likely not going to be able to cool the processor without a custom loop at >51
> 
> Try the following bios settings and see if you can play games stable. E cores disabled.
> 
> x53 sync all cores, ring down bin disabled, maximum ring ratio x48, Manual Voltage Bios set: 1.500v, LLC: level 3 (yes this is safe). Set max temperature threshold in CPU internal power management to 105C If this actually passes, try Ring ratio x49 (note, you may have to both set ring down bin=disabled and min and max ring ratio to x49, if you check in windows and it's not going past x47 or x48).
> 
> x52 sync all cores, ring down bin disabled, max ring x47, manual vcore bios set 1.410v, LLC level 4 (yes 4, not 3 this time)
> 
> x51 sync all cores, ring x47, manual vcore set 1.340v, LLC: level 4
> 
> Note:when you're finished with these if they're stable, save them as a profile. But before you re-enable the E cores, make sure you set ring down bin back to Auto, and set the ring ratios back to auto first.
> 
> A very very fast test is Java minecraft (not free, unfortunately). If you have it, try to repeatedly load the game to the main menu and exit, then load the game over and over.
> Do that repeatedly. If you don't get a BSOD or a hard lock in 20 repeated load attempts, it means your CPU is game stable (at least on the P cores).
> e.g. Battlefield 5 should run perfectly. You should have hwinfo64 running to check the temps.
> 
> You could also try Cinebench R15 (10 loops is good enough) but I doubt you will be able to cool the x53 setting (52 and 51 should be simple).


Thank you Falkentyne for all your effort and help. I really appreciate it. For now I think I'll just stick with stock and a little undervolt (AC LL set to 0,35 from Auto). By the way I just remembered while I was checking VID I forgot to disable C states. Does it matter cause my ratios were exactly the same as I was reading it from HWinfo (if I set it to 51x it stayed 51x it did not downclock)?


----------



## tps3443

Man, I want to like the 12900K. But I don’t even know where to start.

Where are the Evga boards at?


----------



## Falkentyne

penguin1717 said:


> Sadly while I waited for my MB my refund period had passed. Maybe I'll try to sell it and take a hit. Is there anyone in EU on this forum (maybe US or Asia but know nothing about shipping) with average to good chip extra who is willing to sell or exchange it with me. I'll exchange mine dud chip and pay extra if someone is willing.
> 
> Thank you Falkentyne for all your effort and help. I really appreciate it. For now I think I'll just stick with stock and a little undervolt (AC LL set to 0,35 from Auto). By the way I just remembered while I was checking VID I forgot to disable C states. Does it matter cause my ratios were exactly the same as I was reading it from HWinfo (if I set it to 51x it stayed 51x it did not downclock)?


C states=auto I believe auto rules is disabled if you "either" use sync all cores or a fixed multiplier (or maybe both at the same time), and enabled if the core ratio is at auto, but I'm not completely certain on that. You will have to check that for yourself. If there is no downclocking and no 0.800v idle Vcore or VID, then cpu isn't in c-state. This may also have to do with windows power plan settings as well (e.g. High or Ultimate performance).


----------



## penguin1717

Falkentyne said:


> C states=auto I believe auto rules is disabled if you "either" use sync all cores or a fixed multiplier (or maybe both at the same time), and enabled if the core ratio is at auto, but I'm not completely certain on that. You will have to check that for yourself. If there is no downclocking and no 0.800v idle Vcore or VID, then cpu isn't in c-state. This may also have to do with windows power plan settings as well (e.g. High or Ultimate performance).


I'll check it now but I do not have any hope anything will be different/better. I am little baffled how bad my CPU is. (or how bad it's default VID is). My CPU is V135 and from that series as I read there were some good CPUs. I haven't seen anyone with that bad VID anywhere online. I guess getting this bad CPU is equally rare as getting a golden sample. Let's call it a wooden sample.


----------



## Ichirou

tps3443 said:


> Man, I want to like the 12900K. But I don’t even know where to start.
> 
> Where are the Evga boards at?


Lol, I completely forgot about EVGA


----------



## tps3443

Ichirou said:


> Lol, I completely forgot about EVGA


Well, I would rather have an EVGA Dark board for Z690. I like the bios I’ve been with this bios style for a while now. So, I’d rather stick with that. I want to learn a new CPU, instead of learning a new motherboard and a new CPU.


----------



## penguin1717

Checked now and with disabled C states the CPU still downclocked. Would it made difference if CPU didn't downclock and I left system idling for let's say 5 minutes? Would that show lower VID even if the multiplier stayed the same?


----------



## iraff1

sugi0lover said:


> This is my cooling setup with 12900K.
> - Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) out on balcony. PC itself inside the room.


not sure why but this setup makes me lol, youre absolutely crazy and i love it


----------



## Shonk

I posted the other day about having problem with
2 x Crucial MX 500 1TB in raid 0 on the sata ports

anyway i have spent the last few days putting it back to stock one thing at a time

And it turns out When using VMD Raid 0 its super sensative to CPU Base Clock 100.30 is apparently just to much for the sata ports which is quite odd as it has to go over for spread spectrum anyway

It was literally the last thing i tried havnt had one drive go missing since setting Base Clock to 100.00


----------



## Falkentyne

penguin1717 said:


> Checked now and with disabled C states the CPU still downclocked. Would it made difference if CPU didn't downclock and I left system idling for let's say 5 minutes? Would that show lower VID even if the multiplier stayed the same?


If the CPU downclocked with C-states disabled, it means you have windows power management set to something awful.
set it to "high performance" or (the hidden Ultimate performance, which requires a registry tweak in windows command prompt, or the registry editor--you can google that yourself) and reboot, and it shouldn't downclock anymore.
I'm not a c-states person. The only point of C-states is when you are using per core specific overclocking with per core specific adaptive voltage (which changes the VID for the active cores!), as this feature requires c-states enabled to put the "Idle" cores to sleep (so the cores that are not idle can use the VID specified that would have been reserved for the idle core). Check robertosampiao's thread for all that stuff.


----------



## lolhaxz

For those panicing about low SP CPU...

If you _actually_ want to test how usable/coolable at stock-mild clocks a 12900K is going to be, use offset mode, +0.005mv (or auto, but careful, depending on board) and set SVID = Best case scenario or AC_LL 0.01 and LLC to something reasonable like 4 or 5.

The high(s) transients on LLC 4 and 5 are *MUCH *lower than the stupid VID's higher clocks start to push.

This will keep the delta between idle and load tighter and keep idle voltages tolerable on "low SP" CPU's.

If isn't stable with LLC5 or 6, at 51-52 then you can say you have a potatoe... you can also try upto +0.020 or 0.030mv offset...

It's _basically_ pointless "using the vdroop to your advantage" for high ratios on fewer cores because it basically will not provide you any real benefit other than sitting there watching CPU-Z with a bag of popcorn... meanwhile, drive idle VID's even higher and limit your all-core potential (or rather, what voltage you might be happy with at idle)... on a very high SP chip where the VID's stay manageable.. this is less of a big deal. (ie, not pushing 1.5v at 5.2GHz+)

Best recipe for any 12900K imo:

TVB voltage optimizations: ON
SVID: Best case scenario (the same as setting AC_LL 0.01)
LLC: 5-6 (start low first, 6 start's to over prescribe vcore at full load)
Offset mode Vcore: adjust offset to requirement, start at 0.005-0.010mv (recalibrate as you raise LLC)
DC_LL: Set to match LLC after all is said and done.
TVB Boost: after all said and done, try +1 or +2. (still seems to work very well with higher LLC's + lower vcore)

Lowest idle voltages and tightest min vcore.. and you will still be able to use TVB etc just fine.

LLC's - using typical ASUS references there.


----------



## Dingdong630

Is a sp 80 decent for some overclocking?


----------



## Ichirou

lolhaxz said:


> For those panicing about low SP CPU...
> 
> If you _actually_ want to test how usable/coolable at stock-mild clocks a 12900K is going to be, use offset mode, +0.005mv (or auto, but careful, depending on board) and set SVID = Best case scenario or AC_LL 0.01 and LLC to something reasonable like 4 or 5.
> 
> The high(s) transients on LLC 4 and 5 are *MUCH *lower than the stupid VID's higher clocks start to push.
> 
> This will keep the delta between idle and load tighter and keep idle voltages tolerable on "low SP" CPU's.
> 
> If isn't stable with LLC5 or 6, at 51-52 then you can say you have a potatoe... you can also try upto +0.020 or 0.030mv offset...
> 
> It's _basically_ pointless "using the vdroop to your advantage" for high ratios on fewer cores because it basically will not provide you any real benefit other than sitting there watching CPU-Z with a bag of popcorn... meanwhile, drive idle VID's even higher and limit your all-core potential (or rather, what voltage you might be happy with at idle)... on a very high SP chip where the VID's stay manageable.. this is less of a big deal. (ie, not pushing 1.5v at 5.2GHz+)
> 
> Best recipe for any 12900K imo:
> 
> TVB voltage optimizations: ON
> SVID: Best case scenario (the same as setting AC_LL 0.01)
> LLC: 5-6 (start low first, 6 start's to over prescribe vcore at full load)
> Offset mode Vcore: adjust offset to requirement, start at 0.005-0.010mv (recalibrate as you raise LLC)
> DC_LL: Set to match LLC after all is said and done.
> TVB Boost: after all said and done, try +1 or +2. (still seems to work very well with higher LLC's)
> 
> Lowest idle voltages and tightest min vcore.. and you will still be able to use TVB etc just fine.
> 
> LLC's - using typical ASUS references there.


How would this instruction change for the manual flat Vcore people? And for high SP chips?


----------



## kingofblog

I posted this in some other threads, but for anyone thinking of disabling E-cores, be warned that this will overvolt your P-cores! The fix is to cap your max ring ratio to 44x.

More info:








[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


I actually see the same thing whether I change multiplier in XTU or BIOS. The VID and Vcore are exactly the same for 49x, 50x, and 51x, which doesn't seem right. I do observe a different VID for 52x, but it's only 25 mV higher. @Exilon @Falkentyne I figured this one out. I disabled E-cores...




www.overclock.net












[Official] Intel Z690 / Z790 DDR4 Daily Memory Overclock


i have to agree regarding the unrelieable post behavior of the MSI MPG. I ended up buying the Strix and i am 100% happy now. MSI would be a good Mainboard if the BIOS would not be crappy. i had to learn the hard way. Next time i will buy ASUS Mainboard at first. What also annoyed me was the odd...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Ichirou

kingofblog said:


> I posted this in some other threads, but for anyone thinking of disabling E-cores, be warned that this will overvolt your P-cores! The fix is to cap your max ring ratio to 44x.
> 
> More info:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread
> 
> 
> I actually see the same thing whether I change multiplier in XTU or BIOS. The VID and Vcore are exactly the same for 49x, 50x, and 51x, which doesn't seem right. I do observe a different VID for 52x, but it's only 25 mV higher. @Exilon @Falkentyne I figured this one out. I disabled E-cores...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Official] Intel Z690 / Z790 DDR4 Daily Memory Overclock
> 
> 
> i have to agree regarding the unrelieable post behavior of the MSI MPG. I ended up buying the Strix and i am 100% happy now. MSI would be a good Mainboard if the BIOS would not be crappy. i had to learn the hard way. Next time i will buy ASUS Mainboard at first. What also annoyed me was the odd...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


This sounds like a BIOS issue, if anything. Can anyone else attest to it?


----------



## kingofblog

Ichirou said:


> This sounds like a BIOS issue, if anything. Can anyone else attest to it?


I think this is more likely to be a CPU ucode (more precisely, P-code, power controller) issue. I did a YOLO undervolt of the cache to -200 mV so that the voltage would always be limited by core instead of ring, and it hasn't crashed yet. It needs more time to confirm stability though.


----------



## ldt

Nizzen said:


> I Ordered this:
> *G.Skill TridentZ Z5 RGB DDR5-5600 BK C36 DC - 32GB*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.Skill TridentZ Z5 RGB DDR5-5600 BK C36 DC - 32GB | Billig
> 
> 
> 5 321,00 kr Minne (RAM), 32 GB: 2 x 16 GB (Dual Channel), DIMM 288-pin, DDR5, 5600 MHz / PC5-44800, CL36-36-36-76, 1.2 V, ikke-bufret, ECC, svart med RGB.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.proshop.no
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Abit cheaper than
> 
> *G.Skill Ripjaws V*
> DDR4, sett, 32 GB: 2 x 16 GB, DIMM 288-pin, 4000 MHz / PC4-32000, CL16, 1.4 V
> 
> Looks like DDR 5 is pretty cheap? Atleast not too bad....
> 
> Haven't seen 6400 kit for preorder yet, but 5600 kit should do it the first week


Hi bro, Does it use samsung ICs ( Or samsung B die ICs ) How about overclocking ability ? Thank you !


----------



## Falkentyne

kingofblog said:


> I think this is more likely to be a CPU ucode (more precisely, P-code, power controller) issue. I did a YOLO undervolt of the cache to -200 mV so that the voltage would always be limited by core instead of ring, and it hasn't crashed yet. It needs more time to confirm stability though.


How do you undervolt the cache?


----------



## jomama22

kingofblog said:


> I think this is more likely to be a CPU ucode (more precisely, P-code, power controller) issue. I did a YOLO undervolt of the cache to -200 mV so that the voltage would always be limited by core instead of ring, and it hasn't crashed yet. It needs more time to confirm stability though.


There is literally a warning in the bios that using a fixed cache rate may overvolt the CPU.


----------



## kingofblog

Falkentyne said:


> How do you undervolt the cache?


Set ring/cache voltage mode to adaptive and the voltage offset to a huge negative number. The ring voltage setting exists in the main overclocking page of ASUS BIOS and can also be tuned in XTU. On my CPU, the ring-core mismatch is 140 mV, but I went ahead and set the ring offset to -200 mV. This ensures that the real voltage is governed by the core VID. If this isn't stable, you have to use a smaller undervolt and clip the max ring ratio instead. 4.9 GHz core is the worst-case scenario for ring stability, as higher ratios will gradually provide more voltage to the ring (max ratio is 47x).



jomama22 said:


> There is literally a warning in the bios that using a fixed cache rate may overvolt the CPU.


It has nothing to do with a "fixed" cache ratio. The default ring offset is -2, i.e. 2 bins lower than core, but -2 needs more volts than the core! So if core is 4.5 and cache is 4.3, the core is running at the 4.8 voltage. Same with stock 4.9 all-core boost and 4.7 cache: core is running at the voltage for 5.2 GHz single-core boost.


----------



## Falkentyne

kingofblog said:


> Set ring/cache voltage mode to adaptive and the voltage offset to a huge negative number. The ring voltage setting exists in the main overclocking page of ASUS BIOS and can also be tuned in XTU. On my CPU, the ring-core mismatch is 140 mV, but I went ahead and set the ring offset to -200 mV. This ensures that the real voltage is governed by the core VID. If this isn't stable, you have to use a smaller undervolt and clip the max ring ratio instead. 4.9 GHz core is the worst-case scenario for ring stability, as higher ratios will gradually provide more voltage to the ring (max ratio is 47x).
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with a "fixed" cache ratio. The default ring offset is -2, i.e. 2 bins lower than core, but -2 needs more volts than the core! So if core is 4.5 and cache is 4.3, the core is running at the 4.8 voltage. Same with stock 4.9 all-core boost and 4.7 cache: core is running at the voltage for 5.2 GHz single-core boost.


Eh? Ring voltage exists?
If you mean L2 cache voltage, that's the Atom cores. You can't change that if the E cores are disabled. It's 0.004v no matter what you try to set it to if the E cores are disabled.

Do you think you can take a screenshot of what you're referring to? Because I'm extremely confused. I mean I am very, _very_ confused. I'm sorry.


----------



## kingofblog

Falkentyne said:


> Eh? Ring voltage exists?
> If you mean L2 cache voltage, that's the Atom cores. You can't change that if the E cores are disabled. It's 0.004v no matter what you try to set it to if the E cores are disabled.
> 
> Do you think you can take a screenshot of what you're referring to? Because I'm extremely confused. I mean I am very, _very_ confused. I'm sorry.


Yes, it exists. In ASUS BIOS, it is labeled "cache voltage" (not L2, just "cache") and located at the bottom of the "AI Tweaker" menu, near the other voltages. In XTU, it is labeled "Performance Cores Cache Voltage" and "Performance Cores Cache Voltage Offset" (bizarre name). The ring voltage obeys the same adaptive voltage algorithm as the core. It has a target voltage for overclocking, and a global V/f offset.

Your confusion may stem from the fact that there is no separate power plane for the ring. It shares the same voltage as the P-core and E-core, but the PCU calculates the requested VID based on the max of the VID tables across the three domains. You can read back the VID table for the ring by disabling ring down-bin and adjusting the core ratio from 4.7 and below. When the ring and core V/f tables are aligned, there is no need to change ring settings, because the core voltage will be dominant, but on ADL with E-core disabled, for some reason the ring downbin offset is misaligned.


----------



## Falkentyne

kingofblog said:


> Yes, it exists. In ASUS BIOS, it is labeled "cache voltage" (not L2, just "cache"). In XTU, it is labeled "Performance Cores Cache Voltage" and "Performance Cores Cache Voltage Offset" (bizarre name). There is no separate power plane for the ring. It shares the same voltage as the P-core and E-core, but the PCU calculates the requested VID based on the max of the VID table for those three domains. You can read back the VID table for the ring by disabling ring down-bin and adjusting the core ratio from 4.7 and below.


My bios doesn't say that.
it says "Core/Cache voltage", Maximus Z690 Extreme.

If you can take a screenshot with an example of what you did or changed it would help....


----------



## kingofblog

Falkentyne said:


> My bios doesn't say that.
> it says "Core/Cache voltage", Maximus Z690 Extreme.
> 
> If you can take a screenshot with an example of what you did or changed it would help....


I am using XTU to override this. I need to check the BIOS menu after I finish stress-testing to see what this option is called. For reference, I am on STRIX-A.









EDIT:



Ichirou said:


> Hasn't cache always needed more Vcore in general compared to the core? Pretty sure that hasn't changed for several generations now.
> Going +0.1 MHz on the core requires significantly less to stabilize than +0.1 MHz on the cache.


Yes, the ring has always needed more voltage than the core for a given multiplier, but the V/f curves have historically been set up so that the ring is automatically set to a ratio matching the core's voltage need, since the core draws more power. What is going on in ADL is that the offset is too low, so that the core is instead overvolted to the ring's V/f needs. Note that this is not the case when E-cores are enabled, because then E-cores are the limiting factor for voltage (E-core 4 GHz requires way more volts than ring).


----------



## Ichirou

kingofblog said:


> Set ring/cache voltage mode to adaptive and the voltage offset to a huge negative number. The ring voltage setting exists in the main overclocking page of ASUS BIOS and can also be tuned in XTU. On my CPU, the ring-core mismatch is 140 mV, but I went ahead and set the ring offset to -200 mV. This ensures that the real voltage is governed by the core VID. If this isn't stable, you have to use a smaller undervolt and clip the max ring ratio instead. 4.9 GHz core is the worst-case scenario for ring stability, as higher ratios will gradually provide more voltage to the ring (max ratio is 47x).
> 
> 
> It has nothing to do with a "fixed" cache ratio. The default ring offset is -2, i.e. 2 bins lower than core, but -2 needs more volts than the core! So if core is 4.5 and cache is 4.3, the core is running at the 4.8 voltage. Same with stock 4.9 all-core boost and 4.7 cache: core is running at the voltage for 5.2 GHz single-core boost.


Hasn't cache always needed more Vcore in general compared to the core? Pretty sure that hasn't changed for several generations now.
Going +0.1 MHz on the core requires significantly less to stabilize than +0.1 MHz on the cache.


----------



## jomama22

It sounds like you're just setting core voltage and reducing the ring clock so as not to crash. The ring gets it's voltage from the same fivr so yeah...


----------



## kingofblog

jomama22 said:


> It sounds like you're just setting core voltage and reducing the ring clock so as not to crash. The ring gets it's voltage from the same fivr so yeah...


No! There is a separate V/f table built into the CPU for ring. The VID request is set to max(Pcore, Ecore, ring). You can try it for yourself by using the method I described in my previous post: disable ring downbin and see what that does to your VID. Try to set a negative offset to your core voltage: it won't do anything, because the ring VID is higher.



https://skatterbencher.com/2021/03/30/rocket-lake-overclocking-whats-new/#Ring_down-bin_More_Aggressive



EDIT:

@Falkentyne I took a look at the ASUS menu and I was indeed mistaken. There is only the option to set adaptive voltage for both cache and core simultaneously, which would be fine if the ring downbin offset were set correctly, but it's not. XTU however can tune the ring voltage just fine.

As for stability, I completed three passes of custom x264 stress test with no checksum error and -140 mV ring offset (effectively setting ring back to core voltage, 1.26 VID). Power consumption is 20% lower. This suggests that the behavior is a ucode bug that can be fixed by Intel.

EDIT2:

When using XTU to set the cache voltage offset, you need to first decrease the cache frequency by one and then increase it back. Otherwise, XTU will program the OC mailbox in the wrong sequence and make your system freeze. Classic Intel software development.


----------



## lolhaxz

Ichirou said:


> How would this instruction change for the manual flat Vcore people? And for high SP chips?


For manual vcore... its not applicable - it's specific purpose is to lower requested VID(s) and compensating for the droop with LLC - you are effectively overriding all of this.

You'd have a hard time convincing me there is ever a time you _need_ manual v-core... except some very specific circumstances. (but of course, you can do what you like )

For high SP chips? You could argue you might have a little more VID to use up so you can lay off the LLC, but this comes down to whatever magical number you want to pluck out of the air and call a "safe voltage" .. I personally prefer to keep it around <= 1.425v or there abouts.... but even 1.45-1.5v idle and 1.35v 350W+ full savage load have proved themselves pretty safe in the past on 14nm

You ultimately always end up hitting that same area of vcore concern, it's just you might be 100MHz higher in the frequency range before it happens... ie where you want to start increasing vmin with no more idle vcore headroom.

There's nothing special about a high SP chip perse, it just means it has lower voltage requirements across the clock range (generally).. all the same things applies, you just talking about shifting the vcore requirements say, 30-50mv downward.

I personally cannot see any benefit at all in running LLC below 5 (ASUS), atleast on the two CPU's i've tested and on my board, you do not gain any additional vmin in dropping LLC - on a crappier board, perhaps this holds some credence, it was definitely demonstratable on say 9900/10900K era. .. but even then, it tended to "run for longer", but still not be "stable" versus just upping the LLC and having a lower VID (or AC_LL, effectively "amplifying" the VID). If anything on this gen, I can easily demonstrate LLC4 being demonstrably worse than LLC5 in terms of tuning them both to the exact same vmin. LLC5 will be more stable.

Keep in mind VID is ultimately contextual to quite a few different settings.


----------



## Falkentyne

kingofblog said:


> No! There is a separate V/f table built into the CPU for ring. The VID request is set to max(Pcore, Ecore, ring). You can try it for yourself by using the method I described in my previous post: disable ring downbin and see what that does to your VID. Try to set a negative offset to your core voltage: it won't do anything, because the ring VID is higher.
> 
> 
> 
> https://skatterbencher.com/2021/03/30/rocket-lake-overclocking-whats-new/#Ring_down-bin_More_Aggressive
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> @Falkentyne I took a look at the ASUS menu and I was indeed mistaken. There is only the option to set adaptive voltage for both cache and core simultaneously, which would be fine if the ring downbin offset were set correctly, but it's not. XTU however can tune the ring voltage just fine.
> 
> As for stability, I completed three passes of custom x264 stress test with no checksum error and -140 mV ring offset (effectively setting ring back to core voltage, 1.26 VID). Power consumption is 20% lower. This suggests that the behavior is a ucode bug that can be fixed by Intel.
> 
> EDIT2:
> 
> When using XTU to set the cache voltage offset, you need to first decrease the cache frequency by one and then increase it back. Otherwise, XTU will program the OC mailbox in the wrong sequence and make your system freeze. Classic Intel software development.


Ok I understand what you're talking about and I've seen this myself. You try to set a large v/f negative point offset on adaptive voltage and it stops going down, e.g. you set vf points 5-11 all to -0.07 at x53 P core ratio, but the VID stops going down at -0.05, for example. (I guess the same thing applies for setting a large global negative offset as well).

But this does _NOT_ change the core voltage independently from the ring voltage, so that has to be made clear because it's confusing. I know on Throttlestop, at least on Kaby Lake, Skylake and CFL, using Serial VID (SVID), you can change the CPU core and cache voltages separately, which is VID, not voltage control (Throttlestop can only communicate via SVID). But I remember this causing strange results depending on what workload you were running, e.g. I forgot what I found out, it was years ago, but I think it was something like, if you set a "global" cache voltage (VID) higher than the Core voltage, it would use the higher of the two voltages when running AVX instructions. But I remember it acting differently if you set core "VID" lower than Cache VID, versus Cache VID lower than Core VID. But I don't remember anymore what the results were. I may have posted it in the Throttlestop thread over on notebookreview a few years ago, or on the MSI GT73VR laptop section, but you would have to search for that. This was on Kaby lake era chips (7820HK), but I do remember that the AMI menu "Overclocking Performance Menu" allowed you to change "Override" and "Adaptive" voltages, but changing Override voltage was simply a VID override. (this is the same thing that Gigabyte calls "Override" vcore on their Z490 boards (this changes the global VID directly for that core multiplier), while "Fixed" vcore is the manual direct vcore method). It also has no effect on if the core is actually going to be stable or not at that frequency. I'm not sure, on those old Kaby Lake/Skylake/Coffee Lake AMI Bioses, if there was a separate tab for "cache" or "Uncore", although Uncore was often called System Agent voltage (only changeable via offset with SVID access). But I know throttlestop had access to changing core and cache global VID's separately back then (but again, it didnt perform the way you wanted it to and was a bit useless).


Maybe for low ratios like x50 or x51, sure, you have room, but for x52 or x53 on sync P cores...if your chip isn't golden you are going to need the volts.

So you're talking about reducing the _core_ voltage to what the ring v/f point is. But I fail to see how that helps when you're trying to overclock the P cores to x52, x53, etc. Because if you're trying to use a x53 all P core multiplier at the x48 ring VID, that may not be stable. But I guess this makes sense if you're trying to use a x50 P core multiplier with a x48 ring ratio and you are getting too much volts on adaptive vcore. That does make sense now.

But I fail to understand why you are limiting yourself to x50 on the P cores. Unless you're using cooling from 10 years ago, you should be able to cool that easily. Even on my lackluster QS, I can manage to stabilize Stockfish at x52 on P cores (E cores are off) and x48 or maybe x49 ring even if I'm flirting with 100C (1.270v die-sense load voltage). Although Stockfish is faster with the E cores enabled (e.g. x51 with x40 on the E cores) since it can use over 32 threads. But gaming is different for sure if it's not using every single thread available!


----------



## kingofblog

Falkentyne said:


> Ok I understand what you're talking about and I've seen this myself. You try to set a large v/f negative point offset on adaptive voltage and it stops going down, e.g. you set vf points 5-11 all to -0.07 at x53 P core ratio, but the VID stops going down at -0.05, for example. (I guess the same thing applies for setting a large global negative offset as well).
> 
> But this does _NOT_ change the core voltage. It also has no effect on if the core is actually going to be stable or not at that frequency. Maybe for low ratios like x50 or x51, sure, you have room, but for x52 or x53 on sync P cores...if your chip isn't golden you are going to need the volts.
> 
> So you're talking about reducing the _core_ voltage to what the ring v/f point is. But I fail to see how that helps when you're trying to overclock the P cores to x52, x53, etc. Because if you're trying to use a x53 all P core multiplier at the x48 ring VID, that may not be stable. But I guess this makes sense if you're trying to use a x50 P core multiplier with a x48 ring ratio and you are getting too much volts on adaptive vcore. That does make sense now.
> 
> But I fail to understand why you are limiting yourself to x50 on the P cores. Unless you're using cooling from 10 years ago, you should be able to cool that easily. Even on my lackluster QS, I can manage to stabilize Stockfish at x52 on P cores (E cores are off) and x48 or maybe x49 ring even if I'm flirting with 100C (1.270v die-sense load voltage). Although Stockfish is faster with the E cores enabled (e.g. x51 with x40 on the E cores) since it can use over 32 threads. But gaming is different for sure if it's not using every single thread available!


First of all, I don't want to overclock. I want to run stock frequencies in a power-efficient way, and this is impossible with the incorrect ring downbin offset overvolting my core. Second, even if I were overclocking, it is impossible to run the worst-case thermal workload at 5.0 GHz, let alone 5.2, on an AIO. This means that you need working thermal throttling to boost further in light workloads, but thermal throttling can't work if the ring is controlling the VID. Consider this worked example:


Code:


Core    Core V      Ring Downbin    Ring    Ring V      Resolved V
52      1.396       -2              47      1.394       1.396
51      1.351       -2              47      1.394       1.394
50      1.305       -2              47      1.394       1.394
49      1.25        -2              47      1.394       1.394
48      1.217       -2              46      1.35        1.35

The voltages are specific to my CPU and LLC3, but it is the trend that matters. If you ever get thermal throttling, the PCU will force your clocks all the way down to 48x, because all higher ratios require the ring voltage for 47x, which is higher than the core voltage. So unless you can ensure that every possible workload can be cooled at whatever the stock voltage for 52x is, you need to solve the ring-offset mismatch! Look at the hypothetical V/f response if we could set the downbin to -5:


Code:


Core    Core V      Ring Downbin    Ring    Ring V      Resolved V
52      1.396       -2              47      1.394       1.396
51      1.351       -2              46      1.35        1.351
50      1.305       -2              45      1.296       1.305
49      1.25        -2              44      1.252       1.252
48      1.217       -2              43      1.217       1.217

Now, the voltage is smoothly scaling with frequency, and you will always be at the optimal voltage and frequency, no matter how intense of a workload you are running.

Lastly, it is not possible to overclock the Gear1 memory controller to the highest frequency without capping your package power. Otherwise, the IMC will get too hot and cause data errors. To limit package power, you need to throttle, and that won't work if the VIDs are messed up!


----------



## penguin1717

Hi, it's me again with my wooden sample 12900k. As I am baffled with how poor my cpu VID is I am in a little doubt that for 51x ratio you need 1.37v according to reading VID in windows when setting TVB off and AC/DC LLs to 0.01 (best case scenario) can someone eith acces to v/f point offset readout in bios compare it to readout in windows via Hwinfo. I would be really grateful. Maybe in widnows VID is read differently than in BIOS but I have no way of checking it.


----------



## kingofblog

penguin1717 said:


> Hi, it's me again with my wooden sample 12900k. As I am baffled with how poor my cpu VID is I am in a little doubt that for 51x ratio you need 1.37v according to reading VID in windows when setting TVB off and AC/DC LLs to 0.01 (best case scenario) can someone eith acces to v/f point offset readout in bios compare it to readout in windows via Hwinfo. I would be really grateful. Maybe in widnows VID is read differently than in BIOS but I have no way of checking it.


Do you have E-cores disabled? If so, turn them back on (see previous 10 posts for details).


----------



## penguin1717

kingofblog said:


> Do you have E-cores disabled? If so, turn them back on (see previous 10 posts for details).


Yes I had them off when I was checking VID. But with E cores on my cpu VID should be only higher not lower if I am not wrong or?


----------



## kingofblog

penguin1717 said:


> Yes I had them off when I was checking VID. But with E cores on my cpu VID should be only higher not lower if I am not wrong or?


There is a bug or design flaw in the power control firmware. If you disable E-cores, it will increase your cache/ring ratio so much that the core voltage needs to increase. Leave one E-core on when trying to read your V/f curve.


----------



## penguin1717

kingofblog said:


> There is a bug or design flaw in the power control firmware. If you disable E-cores, it will increase your cache/ring ratio so much that the core voltage needs to increase. Leave one E-core on when trying to read your V/f curve.


Ok I did not know that. You learn something new every day. In about 9 hours I will be home and post results. By the way I have same goal as you as I am trying to run stock clocks in a more power efficient way as stock voltages are crazy IMO.


----------



## kingofblog

penguin1717 said:


> Ok I did not know that. You learn something new every day. In about 9 hours I will be home and post results.


No worries, mate! I learned this today too.


----------



## GtiJason

cstkl1 said:


> dude. just game
> 
> 
> asus accurate. i think msi too based the sottr performance
> 
> guess giga only


This is what I get on MSI, MemTweakIT shows N:1T when using Real 1N and 1N from bios. So I'm not sure if it is actually 1T or not


----------



## cstkl1

GtiJason said:


> This is what I get on MSI, MemTweakIT shows N:1T when using Real 1N and 1N from bios. So I'm not sure if it is actually 1T or not
> View attachment 2536407
> 
> View attachment 2536406


looks like same as rkl again.


----------



## Nizzen

Looks like Alder Lake is pretty good in FPS per WATT in gaming compared to zen 3 
It's like 24% difference in PUBG 4k and almost 40% in 1080p compared to 5950x


----------



## penguin1717

kingofblog said:


> No worries, mate! I learned this today too.


Hi king, I tried testing VID with E cores enabled and it produced same results. Reading with HWinfo I got 52x VID of 1,415. Can someone with access to V/F point offset be kind enough to read VID from BIOS and then try to read VID from HW info when setting AC/DC LL 0,01. I would be extremely grateful.


----------



## kingofblog

penguin1717 said:


> Hi king, I tried testing VID with E cores enabled and it produced same results. Reading with HWinfo I got 52x VID of 1,415. Can someone with access to V/F point offset be kind enough to read VID from BIOS and then try to read VID from HW info when setting AC/DC LL 0,01. I would be extremely grateful.


52x VID of 1.4 V is in the normal range. What is your VID for 48x-51x? For SP P-86, the V/f is 1.236 V 48x and 1.376 V 53x.


----------



## LionAlonso

kingofblog said:


> 52x VID of 1.4 V is in the normal range. What is your VID for 48x-51x? For SP P-86, the V/f is 1.236 V 48x and 1.376 V 53x.


And VID 49x of the sp-86?


----------



## kingofblog

LionAlonso said:


> And VID 49x of the sp-86?


12900k only has VID for 48x and 53x (which isn't even a stock frequency). To get the in-between points, use linear interpolation.


----------



## penguin1717

kingofblog said:


> 52x VID of 1.4 V is in the normal range. What is your VID for 48x-51x? For SP P-86, the V/f is 1.236 V 48x and 1.376 V 53x.


My 53x VID is 1,46 V which is way lower than 86 SP. It's like theese are not the same product. Mine feels more like 12900 than 12900k.


----------



## kingofblog

penguin1717 said:


> My 53x VID is 1,46 V which is way lower than 86 SP. It's like theese are not the same product. Mine feels more like 12900 than 12900k.


Well, if you look at the bright side, you are getting 0.45 mV per bin, so if you back it down to 4.8 GHz, you're at the same 1.235 V as me. You could have a reasonably efficient CPU at a still very fast 4.8-5.0 GHz. Spent your time tuning memory instead of cores; it's more important for performance anyway. If you can get 2 GHz IMC frequency (post history says you're using DDR4?), you'll still have a great chip on your hands.


----------



## penguin1717

kingofblog said:


> Well, if you look at the bright side, you are getting 0.45 mV per bin, so if you back it down to 4.8 GHz, you're at the same 1.235 V as me. You could have a reasonably efficient CPU at a still very fast 4.8-5.0 GHz. Spent your time tuning memory instead of cores; it's more important for performance anyway. If you can get 2 GHz IMC frequency (post history says you're using DDR4?), you'll still have a great chip on your hands.


Yeah I agree but I am dissapointed that I can't have two cores boost to 52x without 1.36v. That is with undervolt. Is there a way I can lower voltage for 52X and 51x multiplier and leave 49x as is?


----------



## kingofblog

penguin1717 said:


> Yeah I agree but I am dissapointed that I can't have two cores boost to 52x without 1.36v. That is with undervolt. Is there a way I can lower voltage for 52X and 51x multiplier and leave 49x as is?


Yeah, you can. Go into the V/f curve menu and adjust the data point for 48x and 53x (points 6 and 7). As noted before, you need E-core enabled, or else V/f editing will do nothing (restricted by ring VID). The voltages for 49-52x are calculated by linear interpolation from the 48x and 53x VIDs. You can lower the VID for 53x until the interpolated VID for 52x is to your liking. This will also progressively lower the VIDs for 49-51x, but because voltage requirement increases super-linearly, you will still be safe for 49-51x.

According to your post history, you are using a TUF D4, and I am using a STRIX-A D4. If for any reason the V/f curve settings are missing on your board, you can use the Intel XTU and change the V/f curve from software. For some bizarre reason, XTU locks this out unless you leave your SA voltage on adaptive, but you can easily work around this by using SA voltage offset instead of manual voltage.


----------



## penguin1717

kingofblog said:


> Yeah, you can. Go into the V/f curve menu and adjust the data point for 48x and 53x (points 6 and 7). As noted before, you need E-core enabled, or else V/f editing will do nothing (restricted by ring VID). The voltages for 49-52x are calculated by linear interpolation from the 48x and 53x VIDs. You can lower the VID for 53x until the interpolated VID for 52x is to your liking. This will also progressively lower the VIDs for 49-51x, but because voltage requirement increases super-linearly, you will still be safe for 49-51x.
> 
> According to your post history, you are using a TUF D4, and I am using a STRIX-A D4. If for any reason the V/f curve settings are missing on your board, you can use the Intel XTU and change the V/f curve from software. For some bizarre reason, XTU locks this out unless you leave your SA voltage on adaptive, but you can easily work around this by using SA voltage offset instead of manual voltage.


Thank you for your input. The problem I have with v/f curve is that when I lower 53x via v/f curve it still stays the same so the peaks are still around 1.35 v for just two cores. Like it is not working for peak voltages. I'll test some more today. Other thing, can I set power phases to extreme and vrm switching frequency to extreme? Would it be bad for my MB? I don't care about power consumption.


----------



## kingofblog

penguin1717 said:


> Thank you for your input. The problem I have with v/f curve is that when I lower 53x via v/f curve it still stays the same so the peaks are still around 1.35 v for just two cores. Like it is not working for peak voltages. I'll test some more today. Other thing, can I set power phases to extreme and vrm switching frequency to extreme? Would it be bad for my MB? I don't care about power consumption.


Did you test editing V/f curve with E-cores enabled? I remember that there were some quirks with this and you might have to also set points 8 through 11 to the same negative offset.


----------



## penguin1717

kingofblog said:


> Did you test editing V/f curve with E-cores enabled? I remember that there were some quirks with this and you might have to also set points 8 through 11 to the same negative offset.


Yes I have before and it didn't scale. Maybe my highs are just transients even if I am on LLC3. Will it be bad for my MB if I set vrm and power phases to extreme?

Also can someone test their vid in windows witth ac/dc ll set to 0.01 then compare it to v/f voltage in bios. On my board tuf z690 I have v/f offset menu but don't have voltages at those points. I would like to verify that the readout is the same In bios and in windows with HwInfo as I doubt my chip si that bad. I mean I know it's not very good but that bad?!?!


----------



## GtiJason

Does this look legit to you guys ? I went to several Best Buys today looking for a Vietnam batch since they all had 1 12900k in stock. They were all China batch but I decided to test my luck anyways since I only have an average to poor 12700Kf with lousy IMC. Been busy the last 10 hours but finally sat down before bed to take a look at the cpu. I had very little expectations but really care about MC first and foremost. Very tired and gotta work in the AM but this kinda blew my mind . No time to test but if not bugged both P and E look great to me since I always have to buy binned cpu's since my luck has been terrible since Haswell


----------



## skullbringer

GtiJason said:


> Does this look legit to you guys ? I went to several Best Buys today looking for a Vietnam batch since they all had 1 12900k in stock. They were all China batch but I decided to test my luck anyways since I only have an average to poor 12700Kf with lousy IMC. Been busy the last 10 hours but finally sat down before bed to take a look at the cpu. I had very little expectations but really care about MC first and foremost. Very tired and gotta work in the AM but this kinda blew my mind . No time to test but if not bugged both P and E look great to me since I always have to buy binned cpu's since my luck has been terrible since Haswell
> 
> View attachment 2536648


yeah looks like a very good chip, though SP does not say much about IMC quality


----------



## geriatricpollywog

All that matters is cooling. Fight me.


----------



## BattlePhenom

So, AVX offset apparently doesn't work at all on my board. Asus Strix-A D4 on 0707. 

I tried to by pass it by using XTU. Using R20 or R23 it didn't do anything whether set to 1 or 2. 

Anyone else experience this?


----------



## Arni90

BattlePhenom said:


> So, AVX offset apparently doesn't work at all on my board. Asus Strix-A D4 on 0707.
> 
> I tried to by pass it by using XTU. Using R20 or R23 it didn't do anything whether set to 1 or 2.
> 
> Anyone else experience this?


AVX offset is referenced against each core's multiplier limit. If you run 2 cores at 5.5 GHz, and 8 cores at 5.2 GHz, then you would need an AVX offset of 4 to even see it trigger during Cinebench


----------



## BattlePhenom

Arni90 said:


> AVX offset is referenced against each core's multiplier limit. If you run 2 cores at 5.5 GHz, and 8 cores at 5.2 GHz, then you would need an AVX offset of 4 to even see it trigger during Cinebench


I had that thought as well. My top 2 cores are at 5.4 and my bottom 2 are 5.1. I set the offset up to 6 and it still stuck to 5.1 never touched 5 in minimums. It's definitely not working as intended.


----------



## LionAlonso

BattlePhenom said:


> So, AVX offset apparently doesn't work at all on my board. Asus Strix-A D4 on 0707.
> 
> I tried to by pass it by using XTU. Using R20 or R23 it didn't do anything whether set to 1 or 2.
> 
> Anyone else experience this?


You know its per core right? Its a bit useless if you have high single core perf…


----------



## satinghostrider

GtiJason said:


> Does this look legit to you guys ? I went to several Best Buys today looking for a Vietnam batch since they all had 1 12900k in stock. They were all China batch but I decided to test my luck anyways since I only have an average to poor 12700Kf with lousy IMC. Been busy the last 10 hours but finally sat down before bed to take a look at the cpu. I had very little expectations but really care about MC first and foremost. Very tired and gotta work in the AM but this kinda blew my mind . No time to test but if not bugged both P and E look great to me since I always have to buy binned cpu's since my luck has been terrible since Haswell
> 
> View attachment 2536648


Nice! What week is this if you don't mind?


----------



## asdkj1740

Arni90 said:


> AVX offset is referenced against each core's multiplier limit. If you run 2 cores at 5.5 GHz, and 8 cores at 5.2 GHz, then you would need an AVX offset of 4 to even see it trigger during Cinebench


but i cannot even lock the frequency back to 4.9g at 5.1g all core fixed voltage oc by setting avx offset to 2.
some p cores go up to 5.1g causing crashing in p95 sffts avx2 test.


----------



## BattlePhenom

LionAlonso said:


> You know its per core right? Its a bit useless if you have high single core perf…


That's why I tried setting an even higher offset and no dice. I tried using an offset of 1 on a 5.2 all-core earlier and it wasn't working then either and subsequently crashed my system when testing R23. Again, it's not doing anything on my bios and MB. I'm leaning towards this being a bios bug.


----------



## CENS

Z690 DARK is ready: #1 hwbot result R20


----------



## BattlePhenom

Current benchmark and game stable on a 360 aio sp83,
5.4-5.1P 4.0E 4.2R DDR4 4000 c17 Gear 1



























There's still more in the tank, but thermals are spicy at 5.2. I'm hoping liquid metal will help vs Arctic MX-4.


----------



## Larkonian

BattlePhenom said:


> So, AVX offset apparently doesn't work at all on my board. Asus Strix-A D4 on 0707.
> 
> I tried to by pass it by using XTU. Using R20 or R23 it didn't do anything whether set to 1 or 2.
> 
> Anyone else experience this?


Isn't this normal behavior? AVX offset only triggers on heavy workloads with Alder Lake.

So on my system, Cinebench never triggers the offset but the second part of Linpack (the AVX workload) or Prime95 will trigger the offset almost all the time.

I watched a Youtube video on it here: Alder Lake Overclocking: AVX-512 & AVX Offset


----------



## OffBeatViBE

With avx offset what kind of all core overclocks were you guys able to get ?


----------



## kingofblog

CineBench doesn't use AVX, as defined by the power control firmware. AVX offset is triggered when the *256-bit FMAC* is uttilized. CineBench contains only *128-bit* instructions. You can see it for yourself with Intel VTune.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Including the basics from my 12 binned 12900K/KFs for science. Hope this helps us build toward a sense of the distribution:

*Model**Manufactured**Batch**Big SP**Small SP**SP*12900KChinaV136J542103819512900KChinaV133J541102749212900KFVietnamX131J87199769112900KFVietnamX131K10696768912900KFVietnamX132M37298698812900KChinaV137I31295718712900KChinaV135I63696708712900KFVietnamX139M09696678612900KChinaV136J54292668312900KVietnamX142H40389628212900KVietnamX142H40390688212900KChinaJ136J542886881


----------



## GtiJason

satinghostrider said:


> Nice! What week is this if you don't mind?


Pretty sure its V135, but I can confirm later. All the cpu's (3) I saw at 3 Best Buys were all V134 or 135


----------



## owikh84

cletus-cassidy said:


> Including the basics from my 12 binned 12900K/KFs for science. Hope this helps us build toward a sense of the distribution:
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Model**Manufactured**Batch**Big SP**Small SP**SP*12900KChinaV136J542103819512900KChinaV133J541102749212900KFVietnamX131J87199769112900KFVietnamX131K10696768912900KFVietnamX132M37298698812900KChinaV137I31295718712900KChinaV135I63696708712900KFVietnamX139M09696678612900KChinaV136J54292668312900KVietnamX142H40389628212900KVietnamX142H40390688212900KChinaJ136J542886881


Thanks for the efforts.
Interestingly the best and worst chips are from the same batch


----------



## satinghostrider

cletus-cassidy said:


> Including the basics from my 12 binned 12900K/KFs for science. Hope this helps us build toward a sense of the distribution:
> 
> *Model**Manufactured**Batch**Big SP**Small SP**SP*12900KChinaV136J542103819512900KChinaV133J541102749212900KFVietnamX131J87199769112900KFVietnamX131K10696768912900KFVietnamX132M37298698812900KChinaV137I31295718712900KChinaV135I63696708712900KFVietnamX139M09696678612900KChinaV136J54292668312900KVietnamX142H40389628212900KVietnamX142H40390688212900KChinaJ136J542886881


Ok this is immensely helpful.
I have 1 week 36 and 2 week 37. And another one otw from Newegg that's coming that is most likely week 4x. Problem is I can only open 1. This is like Russian roulette lol.


----------



## satinghostrider

Hmmmm...Life Changing decisions...


----------



## cletus-cassidy

owikh84 said:


> Thanks for the efforts.
> Interestingly the best and worst chips are from the same batch


Agreed. I couldn’t see any patterns. I’m stopping and keeping the SP 95 as I doubt I will find much better without really spending a ton of money.


----------



## Talon2016

My 12900K binning results based on the 4 chips I purchased. 

Chip 1: China
SP 86 Overall
SP 95 P Cores
SP 70 E Cores

Chip 2: China
SP 85 Overall
SP 93 P Cores
SP 69 E Cores

Chip 3: China
SP 78 Overall -- Immediately sold locally and forgot to log the individual scores

Chip 4: Vietnam -- My keeper
SP 91 Overall
SP 107 P Cores
SP 71 E Cores


----------



## BattlePhenom

Larkonian said:


> Isn't this normal behavior? AVX offset only triggers on heavy workloads with Alder Lake.
> 
> So on my system, Cinebench never triggers the offset but the second part of Linpack (the AVX workload) or Prime95 will trigger the offset almost all the time.
> 
> I watched a Youtube video on it here: Alder Lake Overclocking: AVX-512 & AVX Offset


Ok, that would explain it then. It begs the question, however, of why there isn't more granularity in controlling what avx instruction sets trigger the avx offset? I can have a completely(or almost) stable oc of 5.2ghz if I can offset it by 1 when encountering a R23 or similar workload.

In terms of gaming, it probably makes the most sense to just set ratios for 53 and avoid avx related benchmarks like de8auer said. I'll cross my fingers that future bios updates will add more versatility to avx offsets.


----------



## Nizzen

Nice OC weather in Norway now 🤩😎


----------



## cstkl1

Nizzen said:


> Nice OC weather in Norway now 🤩😎
> View attachment 2536873


here me about to que for lobster burger









noticed after @safedisk post food on fb.. he does a crazy high oc hci.. today was 7000c32 tight timings.

hoping lobster burger does the trick


----------



## neurokirurgi

I got the 12900K that was picked last in CPU gym class

Batch V136J541
SP 78 Overall
SP 88 P-cores
SP 59 E-cores


----------



## Arni90

neurokirurgi said:


> I got the 12900K that was picked last in CPU gym class
> 
> Batch V136J541
> SP 78 Overall
> SP 88 P-cores
> SP 59 E-cores


It's more fun that way, makes you feel better when achieving good results


----------



## geriatricpollywog

owikh84 said:


> Thanks for the efforts.
> Interestingly the best and worst chips are from the same batch


The best ones come from the center of the wafer right? Does it work like a deck of cards where if I draw an ace, the next person is less likely to draw an ace?


----------



## Electrosoft

Batch # X141K203
SP 81 Overall
SP 90 P-Cores
SP 65 E-Cores
IMC taps out at G1 3867


----------



## bscool

Electrosoft said:


> Batch # X141K203
> SP 81 Overall
> SP 90 P-Cores
> SP 65 E-Cores
> IMC taps out at G1 3867


What MB? DR or DR? and what is the highest you have hit on mem with same MB and ram?


----------



## owikh84

geriatricpollywog said:


> The best ones come from the center of the wafer right? Does it work like a deck of cards where if I draw an ace, the next person is less likely to draw an ace?


Make sense but in the end i think nobody will ever know which units are actually coming from the center of the wafer as batch number can't tell us anything lol.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Anyone has tforce 6400? Is it a good kit? Is it hynix or ss?


----------



## owikh84

Batch # X141H551
SP 87 Overall
SP 99 P-Cores
SP 65 E-Cores

Very unbalanced SP scores for P- and E-cores. Out of the 5 chips that I bought so far, this unit not only has the highest P-core (SP99) but also the lowest E-core (SP65). 

Also, it is the only chip that can run my DDR4 B-die DR at 4133 gear1, it even boots with auto SA/VDDQ. All the previous chips were only able to boot this with just one stick installed on DIMM slot #4.


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Anyone has tforce 6400? Is it a good kit? Is it hynix or ss?


I ordered it, and it looks like GODLIKE  It must be Hynix... Waiting is boring... Maybe it's here january LOL


----------



## bscool

owikh84 said:


> Batch # X141H551
> SP 87 Overall
> SP 99 P-Cores
> SP 65 E-Cores
> 
> Very unbalanced SP scores for P- and E-cores. Out of the 5 chips that I bought so far, this unit not only has the highest P-core (SP99) but also the lowest E-core (SP65).
> 
> Also, it is the only chip that can run my DDR4 B-die DR at 4133 gear1, it even boots with auto SA/VDDQ. All the previous chips were only able to boot this with just one stick installed on DIMM slot #4.


What was the worst/lowest IMC you have had so far? for gear 1 DR b die?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Nizzen said:


> I ordered it, and it looks like GODLIKE  It must be Hynix... Waiting is boring... Maybe it's here january LOL


I saw that Kevin Wu and Clock them up hit 7000+ with that kit.


----------



## owikh84

bscool said:


> What was the worst/lowest IMC you have had so far? for gear 1 DR b die?


All chips (SP79-91) can boot 2 sticks at 4000 gear 1 DR and 4133 1T gear 1 SR.


----------



## Electrosoft

bscool said:


> What MB? DR or DR? and what is the highest you have hit on mem with same MB and ram?


Strix D4 0707
DR (Klevv 2x16GB) SR (2x8 G.Skill B-Die)
Sticks I've had for awhile that tested out on other platforms to 3800 / 4000 (Rated speeds)
XMP and manual settings
SA even @ 1.55 DR stopped @ 3733 SR @ 3867

I have another new 12900k to crack open to compare/contrast I'll be opening later tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## Ichirou

owikh84 said:


> Batch # X141H551
> SP 87 Overall
> SP 99 P-Cores
> SP 65 E-Cores
> 
> Very unbalanced SP scores for P- and E-cores. Out of the 5 chips that I bought so far, this unit not only has the highest P-core (SP99) but also the lowest E-core (SP65).
> 
> Also, it is the only chip that can run my DDR4 B-die DR at 4133 gear1, it even boots with auto SA/VDDQ. All the previous chips were only able to boot this with just one stick installed on DIMM slot #4.


I should do this and just auto the RAM at that frequency raw no rubber lol. Just to see if it'll boot at my old settings on G1.

What BIOS do you recommend? 0707 or 0806?


----------



## MikeS3000

This cracks me up with the # of people who have multiple 12900k CPUs to test. I'm the cheap ass who wen to Micro Center and picked up a 12700k for $349 and it's only an SP 73 (82 P cores and 55 E cores). It still clocks up to 5.4 ghz on 3 cores and 5.1 ghz all-core on the P cores and 4.1 ghz on the E cores. She may take a little more volage to get there, but my Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420 is doing an admirable job of keeping it aroudn 78-80c under full load.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

For those who like to play with LLC:

Why to choose a low or a high LLC?

Many like to tinker with their motherboard load-line settings to achieve better overclocking results.
But how does this setting really work and how does the voltage output change with it?
Check below to find out.

*What is Load-Line?*
The load-line setting, normally in mΩ (milliohms), determines how much the output voltage decreases when loaded. This is derived from Ohm’s Law U = R*I. The drop in output voltage is calculated as load-line * Iout (output current).
For example a load-line of 1 mΩ and output current of 100 A, dU = 0.001 Ω * 100 A = 0.100 V. At 1.300 V set-point output voltage, when loaded with 100 A the output would really be 1.300 – 0.100 = 1.200 V.
The primary reason for using a load-line in modern systems is to reduce voltage spikes (overshoot) when going from high to low output current and achieve a more predictable behavior.

Load-Line Levels or similar are profiles created by motherboard manufacturers to obfuscate and “simplify” different load-line values for users.
Another reason for these profiles is because additional VRM (Voltage Regulator Module) settings may need to adjusted along with the load-line value to keep it operating within spec.

*The LLC effect:*

The captures below show the output voltage transient behavior when loaded with about 70 A for ~150 μs.

The LLC1 capture illustrates ideal load-line behavior.

As the load-line value decreases (higher level), the line flattens and the under/overshoot spikes at start and finish become more pronounced.
The lowest voltage point at the beginning of the load transient does not improve much. In this case, using a Load-Line Level of above 3 seems questionable.
The load voltage would increase meaning higher power consumption, but the worst case lowest voltage would stay the same.

































































The graphs above are for a static voltage. Can you imagine the mess using "By core", Adaptive voltage and OCTVB?
That's why it's easier to stabilize this type of OC using a high-impedance LLC.

Credits: ElmorLabs


*About Phases:*


----------



## clackersx

Has there been any development or news on a delid tool and any more delid results or testing?
All I have seen is der8auer so far, I think. Might have missed some posts.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

clackersx said:


> Has there been any development or news on a delid tool and any more delid results or testing?
> All I have seen is der8auer so far, I think. Might have missed some posts.


Supercool computer has a delid tool.


----------



## skullbringer

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Supercool computer has a delid tool.


for ADL? where, can't find it on their webpage, maybe thai to english google translate is letting me down 

also direct core mark 7 when 👀


----------



## IronAge

Facebook







www.facebook.com





2 seconds let me google that for you.


----------



## IronAge

Nizzen said:


> I ordered it, and it looks like GODLIKE  It must be Hynix... Waiting is boring... Maybe it's here january LOL


i got a kit of Adata XPG Lancer 6000CL40 with Hynix IC incoming monday or tuesday.

Trident Z5 5600CL36 and Trident Z5 6000CL40 already sitting on my Desk.

DDR5 shortage what ? can't hear you.


----------



## Nizzen

IronAge said:


> i got a kit of Adata XPG Lancer 6000CL40 with Hynix IC incoming monday or tuesday.
> 
> Trident Z5 5600CL36 and Trident Z5 6000CL40 already sitting on my Desk.
> 
> DDR5 shortage what ? can't hear you.


Maybe you are grabbing them before retail shops


----------



## HiLuckyB

clackersx said:


> Has there been any development or news on a delid tool and any more delid results or testing?
> All I have seen is der8auer so far, I think. Might have missed some posts.


I actually have a delid 12900K coming my way. I bought it from a forum member who modified a 1200 delid tool to work on 1700.
This CPU at 5.6GHz on 2 cores, 5.4GHz all core 1.42-1.43v with 22-24c water temp was hitting 71-75c in R23. It had liquid metal under the IHS, And kryaunot extreme to the CPU block.
I should have it later this week, And hopefully I can match those temps with my custom loop


----------



## Electrosoft

Electrosoft said:


> Batch # X141K203
> SP 81 Overall
> SP 90 P-Cores
> SP 65 E-Cores
> IMC taps out at G1 3867





bscool said:


> What MB? DR or DR? and what is the highest you have hit on mem with same MB and ram?





Electrosoft said:


> Strix D4 0707
> DR (Klevv 2x16GB) SR (2x8 G.Skill B-Die)
> Sticks I've had for awhile that tested out on other platforms to 3800 / 4000 (Rated speeds)
> XMP and manual settings
> SA even @ 1.55 DR stopped @ 3733 SR @ 3867
> 
> I have another new 12900k to crack open to compare/contrast I'll be opening later tonight or tomorrow.


Cracked open the new one.

SP 82 Overall
SP 94 P-Cores
SP 58 E-Cores

Does 4000 no problem and runs cooler and pulls less at stock (~242w vs ~217w) CB23 even at 4000 @ 1.3 SA (I'll see if I can lower this even more). That first SP 81 was a slog amongst slogs.


----------



## sblantipodi

am I the only one interested in AVX2 and AVX OC?


----------



## mgkhn

cletus-cassidy said:


> Including the basics from my 12 binned 12900K/KFs for science. Hope this helps us build toward a sense of the distribution:
> 
> *Model**Manufactured**Batch**Big SP**Small SP**SP*12900KChinaV136J542103819512900KChinaV133J541102749212900KFVietnamX131J87199769112900KFVietnamX131K10696768912900KFVietnamX132M37298698812900KChinaV137I31295718712900KChinaV135I63696708712900KFVietnamX139M09696678612900KChinaV136J54292668312900KVietnamX142H40389628212900KVietnamX142H40390688212900KChinaJ136J542886881


i have one shot with X140K883 tray 12900kf and it has SP98 with 107 p / 81 e finally my chance turns on 12th gen


----------



## morph.

Starting to dabble with overclocking the 12900k now that everything is mostly set up on my system whats the acceptable vid/vcore range for the 12900k? Not the most extreme voltages but the balance between not prematurely killing it too quickly and having some longevity with it as well as I'm not going for a super world record just a very solid overclock with my custom loop. I've been looking around and can't seem to see anything definitive about this I guess it's the challenge with a new platform.

My 12900k with my moderate oc currently runs tops out at around 1.49v guess I'm after a little peace of mind seems high but the new platform and all.

For instance, I didn't really push past 1.38v on the 11900k.


----------



## HiLuckyB

If you keep a CPU for years probably want to stay under 1.4v, But I don't think vcore is what is going to kill a Intel CPU. They seem to hold up to higher vcore just fine if you keep the temps under control.


----------



## Ichirou

HiLuckyB said:


> If you keep a CPU for years probably want to stay under 1.4v, But I don't think vcore is what is going to kill a Intel CPU. They seem to hold up to higher vcore just fine if you keep the temps under control.


The tried and tested formula is to keep Intels under 1.40V for longevity, only easing into the 1.40-1.50V range once you deem it EOL and are planning to upgrade.
_Or you can throw 2V at it and LN2 just to see what happens _


----------



## HiLuckyB

Most of these 12900K/KF are going to stop you 1.35-1.4v because of heat, Unless you have a really nice CPU.
I have a 12900KF right now that barley does 5.2GHz at 1.36-1.375v at 94-96c.
With the delided 12900K I have coming I'm going to probably run it 1.4-1.45v because the temps are much more under control.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Are you talking about VID or Vcore?


----------



## Ichirou

HiLuckyB said:


> Most of these 12900K/KF are going to stop you 1.35-1.4v because of heat, Unless you have a really nice CPU.
> I have a 12900KF right now that barley does 5.2GHz at 1.36-1.375v at 94-96c.
> With the delided 12900K I have coming I'm going to probably run it 1.4-1.45v because the temps are much more under control.


I highly doubt a delid is enough to reduce heat by that much; Intel CPUs now use solder, after all. Difference would only be by a few C.
What's more significant is whether it is binned and requires much less voltage to begin with.


----------



## sugi0lover

My god~~ SP108 12900K


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> My god~~ SP108 12900K
> View attachment 2537181


Are you still buying more CPUs to bin? Lol


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Are you still buying more CPUs to bin? Lol


No, one guy posted it at Korean PC community, and I am waiting for his reply if he wants to sell it.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> No, one guy posted it at Korean PC community, and I am waiting for his reply if he wants to sell it.


How many CPUs do you have already? And how high are their SP values?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> How many CPUs do you have already? And how high are their SP values?


I have bought only 4 12900K myself, SP80, 93, 97, 103 and currently have SP 97 and 103.
Many of my friends are still binning 12900K and I have friend's chance to get one from them.


----------



## morph.

RobertoSampaio said:


> Are you talking about VID or Vcore?


CORE-VID in my instance getting my wires crossed fkn noob mistake lol

But also curious as to the ideal/safe vcore range too sub 1.4v still?


----------



## j o e

without having to read through all these pages, what's this sp you guys speak of?


----------



## Ichirou

morph. said:


> CORE-VID in my instance getting my wires crossed fkn noob mistake lol
> 
> But also curious as to the ideal/safe vcore range too sub 1.4v still?


12the Gen is still too new to know for sure; it's not even been a few months since the 12900K was released. You'll have to decide what is "safe" yourself.

You could actually run the PC stock, stress test it, and track the Vcore max that it ends up using in HWInfo. That should give a rough ballpark for what the default Intel voltage spec is, and what is likely to have been tested as "safe" by them. Intel provides a three year warranty to back that voltage as well.

Of course, a bad motherboard voltage oversupply or a constant workstation 100% load use might cause problems over the long run, but probably not common enough on stock settings to cause too many RMAs.


j o e said:


> without having to read through all these pages, what's this sp you guys speak of?


TL;DR: Quality of CPU. Higher = better. Average bin is somewhere like, 60-80.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

morph. said:


> CORE-VID in my instance getting my wires crossed fkn noob mistake lol
> 
> But also curious as to the ideal/safe vcore range too sub 1.4v still?


VID is not a good parameter to compare as you can change LLC, DC_LL, AC_LL and your VCore and power will change. 
You need to be careful with POWER / TIME.
1 minute running 250W is not the same thing as 2 minutes running 125W, thinking about degradation.

If you are running "By core", OCVTB and adaptive voltage, it is perfectly normal to have a 1.50V Vcore at high frequencies and light loads.
If you set a voltage override, AC_LL will be turned off, but it is necessary to adjust DC_LL according to LLC for CPU power calculations.

About CPU Vcore, if you run light loads with 1.50v for 10 years, it will be less aggressive than running 10hs of R23 or P95.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

deleted


----------



## morph.

RobertoSampaio said:


> VID is not a good parameter to compare as you can change LLC, DC_LL, AC_LL and your VCore and power will change.
> You need to be careful with POWER / TIME.
> 1 minute running 250W is not the same thing as 2 minutes running 125W, thinking about degradation.
> 
> If you are running "By core", OCVTB and adaptive voltage, it is perfectly normal to have a 1.50V Vcore at high frequencies and light loads.
> If you set a voltage override, AC_LL will be turned off, but it is necessary to adjust DC_LL according to LLC for CPU power calculations.
> 
> About CPU Vcore, if you run light loads with 1.50v for 10 years, it will be less aggressive than running 10hs of R23 or P95.


Yeah I'm going down the per core usage route as I did with my 11900k. I just wanted to get going quickly before I start digesting the vast amount of information with overclocking alderlake. I've scanned through your guide/falkentyres/skatterbench's/dera8leur but it will definitely take a little bit of time for me to absorb/understand it all.

What svid behaviour would you select? (I was just fooling around and changed it from auto to best-case scenario and the voltages seemed to spike a bit more than I expected).
Yeah currently have my LLC on #3 I know your guide shows you use #1. My sp is 84, P cores were up in the 95's if I recall.

Ah yes also the long/short duration power limit settings I traditionally have them maxed out is this dangerous now?

Here's what HWinfo has shown with me just browsing/light load/wfh office apps: I'm still yet to optimise it properly as it can take some time definitely feeling like its running a bit high at the moment.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

morph. said:


> Yeah I'm going down the per core usage route!
> 
> What svid behaviour would you select? (I was just fooling around and changed it from auto to best-case scenario and the voltages seemed to spike a bit more than I expected).
> Yeah currently have my LLC on #3 I know your guide shows you use #1. My sp is 84, P cores was up in the 95's if I recall.
> 
> Heres what HWinfo has shown with me just browsing/light load/wfh office apps: I'm still yet to optimise it properly as it can take some time.
> 
> View attachment 2537187



This is a LLC#1










And this is LLC#3










And this is a LLC#6










LLC have nothing to do with SP or stability...

"Svid behaviour" is a setting "package" of AC_LL and DC_LL.
The "best scenario" will set them to 0.01. It's not a good idea... It's unrealistic an impedance of 0.01 mhom
When we define an SVID and change other parameters to stabilize the system, we are compensating for an error with another error.
When we select "trained", Asus AI OC will change AC_LL and DC_LL dynamically. Use this when you are overclocking with AI.

The best is to understand the load lines and configure them for what we want to do...

If you take a look to the CPU data sheet you will find this:










So when we buy a branded computer, we assume that the manufacturer has made these adjustments.

When we decide to build our own PC, we need to do it ourselves.

So we need to choose a LLC and set the correct DC_LL

In your case, you have a high VID and a high Vcore... you can adjust them better 

Start from the beginning:

What do you want?


Do benchmarks -> set an aggressive LLC, set an override voltage, synchronize all cores, use DL_LL to cheat CPU power calculations, and run the benchmark.
Use PC for important work -> do not remove limits and set default LLC, DC_LL and AC_LL settings.
Best performing in games -> use all CPU resources, adjust LLC, DC_LL and AC_LL to get high ST and MT performance.


----------



## owikh84

Ichirou said:


> I should do this and just auto the RAM at that frequency raw no rubber lol. Just to see if it'll boot at my old settings on G1.
> 
> What BIOS do you recommend? 0707 or 0806?


Should be 0808 as it allows me to boot my B-die DR easily at 4133 with any chip, but unstable except with the latest CPU that I have atm with the strongest IMC. I'm almost stable now with the 0808 at 4133 16-16-16-34-2T DR G1 @ 1.5v, just need to tighten some subtimings for extra performance. Next I will revisit 2x8GB and 4x8GB B-die as well as Hynix DJR at maybe 5333+.


----------



## Ichirou

owikh84 said:


> Should be 0808 as it allows me to boot my B-die DR easily at 4133 with any chip, but unstable except with the latest CPU that I have atm with the strongest IMC. I'm almost stable now with the 0808 at 4133 16-16-16-34-2T DR G1 @ 1.5v, just need to tighten some subtimings for extra performance. Next I will revisit 2x8GB and 4x8GB B-die as well as Hynix DJR at maybe 5333+.


Would be curious to see whether it can boot at that frequency, and what kind of voltages it requires


----------



## Agent-A01

owikh84 said:


> Should be 0808 as it allows me to boot my B-die DR easily at 4133 with any chip, but unstable except with the latest CPU that I have atm with the strongest IMC. I'm almost stable now with the 0808 at 4133 16-16-16-34-2T DR G1 @ 1.5v, just need to tighten some subtimings for extra performance. Next I will revisit 2x8GB and 4x8GB B-die as well as Hynix DJR at maybe 5333+.


What board? And did you try other bios like 0707, 0802, 0803 etc?


----------



## owikh84

Agent-A01 said:


> What board? And did you try other bios like 0707, 0802, 0803 etc?


Strix Z690-A D4. I tested all the BIOSes from 0707 to 0808. 0707 was the best BIOS previously, but now it is 0808.


----------



## bscool

owikh84 said:


> Strix Z690-A D4. I tested all the BIOSes from 0707 to 0808. 0707 was the best BIOS previously, but now it is 0808.


Did you run stability/memtest also? I just tried 808 and am getting errors with same setting I had been running on 707. Could be a fluke though and now going back to 707 I might get them. Probably going back to 707 to test anyway.


----------



## CENS

always bet on black: 15k all-in









CENS`s Geekbench3 - Multi Core score: 114119 points with a Core i9 12900K


The Core i9 12900K @ 6900MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Geekbench3 - Multi Core benchmark. CENSranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org


----------



## cstkl1

CENS said:


> View attachment 2537275
> 
> 
> always bet on black: 15k all-in


ln2 again.

show what the board actually can do. never bet on garbage. come hci, stable. daily.


----------



## CENS

it can actually do it as you can see  and I have posted ambient scores before as a matter of fact on ln2 it's much harder to get high ddr5 freq working, hence no one else was able to do it so far. Above is the highest overall 12900k score on geekbench despite lower core clocks. That says it all.

for reference: Geekbench3 - Multi Core overclocking records @ HWBOT


----------



## CENS

thats ambient (CPU), no disabling of cores or part of the chip... full blown.


----------



## cstkl1

CENS said:


> it can actually do it as you can see  and I have posted ambient scores before as a matter of fact on ln2 it's much harder to get high ddr5 freq working, hence no one else was able to do it so far. you just don't know it yet.


show us. where is the ambient scores?? 
click on profile. 
sales if cpu. thread dispute 
another ln2 lost

says support end ussr. no F given to actual end user

where is this so called ambient?


----------



## cstkl1

CENS said:


> thats ambient, no disabling of cores or part of the chip... full blown.
> View attachment 2537277


lol. dats funny cause. dat aint ambient.

come show ambient. run some hci , tm5 etc with hwinfo yourcase since you contradicted yourself.


----------



## CENS

don't act childish. You asked what the board can rly do. Then you complain that I lift the limits on the mems to challenge the board more. What?


----------



## cstkl1

CENS said:


> don't act childish. You asked what the board can rly do. Then you complain that I lift the limits on the mems to challenge the board more. What?


i asked daily. u said daily.. ambient.. then i posted what u clearly stated on fb not ambient. now you are saying i am childish?!

dude are u ok? or is this liar liar pants on fire scenario??


----------



## cstkl1

u even edited now saying ambient cpu.


----------



## CENS

the hard part is when you cool the CPU down... IMC gets worse. It's okay you can't know about this.

You asked about what the board can do. if I have better mems that can do 7000mhz tight benchmark timings fully ambient the board would still behave the same period. I can do 6667mhz fully ambient mems too. It's a matter of binning mems thats all. The board is not the limiting factor


----------



## cstkl1

CENS said:


> dude the hard part is when you cool the CPU down... IMC gets worse. you asked about what the board can do. if I have better mems that can do 7000mhz tight benchmark timings fully ambient the board would still behave the same period. so what is this about? What did you achieve? I can do 6667mhz fully ambient mems too. It's a matter of binning mems thats all.


heck if u want to post say evga achieved this ranking etc etc link to hwbot etc etc. thats fine.

but you kept changing the definition of things like "ambient" .. editing ambient cpu when we were talking about ram. 

come dude for all the hardware. post. something daily setting. z590 was garbage, atm only msi shown that they in contention and ppl are looking forward to asrock (from z590) results.
show something "ambient" 

u want to see whats difficult?? try daily oc.









this the very definition of difficult atleast on apex unless u know how to set skews/algos.


----------



## Forsaken1

CENS said:


> View attachment 2537275
> 
> 
> always bet on black: 15k all-in
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CENS`s Geekbench3 - Multi Core score: 114119 points with a Core i9 12900K
> 
> 
> The Core i9 12900K @ 6900MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the Geekbench3 - Multi Core benchmark. CENSranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hwbot.org


Keep pushin.Fanboys are pathetic.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Why you dont use geekbench 5?


----------



## cletus-cassidy

mgkhn said:


> i have one shot with X140K883 tray 12900kf and it has SP98 with 107 p / 81 e finally my chance turns on 12th gen


That kind of luck never happens to me, hence having to bin 10+.


----------



## CENS

RobertoSampaio said:


> Why you dont use geekbench 5?


good question, well it is basically down to what the benchmarking homepage hwbot gives credit for and what competitive overclockers compete in. you get points for your ranking when you do geekbench3, but gb5 you don't. As GB3 is older there is much more results and data, so you can easily compare with older gen hardware. 

That's why we still benchmark modern harware in superpi32m which is 20y+ old? I don't even know.


----------



## schuldig

cstkl1 said:


> lol. dats funny cause. dat aint ambient.
> 
> come show ambient. run some hci , tm5 etc with hwinfo yourcase since you contradicted yourself.


+1 on @CENS reply on you acting childish. 
I appreciate your work, help and input on many topics. However not accepting criticism and attacking competition in a non constructive attitude outweighs the mentioned positives.

Maybe you can watercool yourself bro? 🥶


----------



## cstkl1

this aint "binned " ram

one ram has insane droop. 
another one spd hub temp bug and hits 63c 
this is worst case scenario of different pmics, rgb and non rgb kit mixed together..what apex can do

when proper kit arrives.. thats when see best case scenarios. till then only limitation is possibly is the cpu imc. 
adl has imc binning.


----------



## cstkl1

schuldig said:


> +1 on @CENS reply on you acting childish.
> I appreciate your work, help and input on many topics. However not accepting criticism and attacking competition in a non constructive attitude outweighs the mentioned positives.
> 
> Maybe you can watercool yourself bro? 🥶


whats his input on many topic?


https://www.overclock.net/search/609507/



accepting criticism? competition?
is there something wrong with u?
am i posting ln2? am i competing hwbot?
i help end user.

32 post. are u here just to post nonsense to help a buddy who

lets check some history here for clarity
@CENS posted ln2
i asked dude post daily what the board can do
@CENS said he posted here before
then posted saying ambient
i posted his fb reply wasnt
@CENS edited now ambient cpu ln2 ram
calls me childish. trying to subvert. 

werent we talking about ambient ram ??
then stated 6666 he can do it if bin ram.
i have no clue of binned ram.. i need some of that...6666 was just me estimating the end goal of my current garbage two diff stick, pmic. 

now u sayinng 106 post here he help, gave input. saying i dont accept crictism or attacking competition

you two are changing the narrative to suit your contradictory statements


----------



## cstkl1

seriously dont care what the agenda is but
please post a obtainable daily oc a person can achieve on ram.
congrats to evga for ln2. good work evga fae team. 

atm 6800 1T on msi unify X and aqua oc is at the top.


----------



## IronAge

mgkhn said:


> i have one shot with X140K883 tray 12900kf and it has SP98 with 107 p / 81 e finally my chance turns on 12th gen


12900K with rating close to that just got sold for 1400€ / ~1600$ to "der8auer"  

(not mine, i am just observer)


----------



## mgkhn

cletus-cassidy said:


> That kind of luck never happens to me, hence having to bin 10+.


Mine turns After many years first lottery is e6300 and asus p5w dh the couple reach really high fsb without anymod


----------



## cstkl1

IronAge said:


> 12900K with rating close to that just got sold for 1400€ / ~1600$ to "der8auer"
> 
> (not mine, i am just observer)


think "phantom" korean xoc guy using a high sp also. he is attacking 3dmark


----------



## mgkhn

IronAge said:


> 12900K with rating close to that just got sold for 1400€ / ~1600$ to "der8auer"
> 
> (not mine, i am just observer)


1400€ what a good price, it's nice business


----------



## jomama22

cstkl1 said:


> heck if u want to post say evga achieved this ranking etc etc link to hwbot etc etc. thats fine.
> 
> but you kept changing the definition of things like "ambient" .. editing ambient cpu when we were talking about ram.
> 
> come dude for all the hardware. post. something daily setting. z590 was garbage, atm only msi shown that they in contention and ppl are looking forward to asrock (from z590) results.
> show something "ambient"
> 
> u want to see whats difficult?? try daily oc.
> 
> View attachment 2537281
> 
> this the very definition of difficult atleast on apex unless u know how to set skews/algos.


You always say these things. Why not actually share your timings and the skews you use? You complain about daily stable and such, well why not actually be helpful instead of using this as your personal benchmark thread?


----------



## skullbringer

IronAge said:


> Facebook
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.facebook.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 seconds let me google that for you.


lol how stupid of me to check their website and not look for a facebook live video on google /s


----------



## j o e

mgkhn said:


> i have one shot with X140K883 tray 12900kf and it has SP98 with 107 p / 81 e finally my chance turns on 12th gen


Mine just came in the mail, so is that higher sp number better?


----------



## Ichirou

j o e said:


> Mine just came in the mail, so is that higher sp number better?
> View attachment 2537331


If you have an ASUS board, just go into the BIOS and see what the SP number on the right-hand side says.
And the AI section of the BIOS tells you the individual SP values for the P- and E-cores, as they are two different sets of cores.


----------



## Agent-A01

owikh84 said:


> Strix Z690-A D4. I tested all the BIOSes from 0707 to 0808. 0707 was the best BIOS previously, but now it is 0808.


Do you have a link? I checked the last few pages to see if there was mention of a Tuf 0808 bios but didn't see anything


----------



## Ichirou

Agent-A01 said:


> Do you have a link? I checked the last few pages to see if there was mention of a Tuf 0808 bios but didn't see anything


It was provided by some ASUS rep in some page buried quite far behind, but it was intended for the Strix (not sure if it would work on the TUF).


----------



## eeroo94

Agent-A01 said:


> Do you have a link? I checked the last few pages to see if there was mention of a Tuf 0808 bios but didn't see anything











ASUS ROG Strix Z690-A Gaming WiFi D4 Thread


Just ordered this board to get away from the nightmare im having (and others too) with mem clocking on the tomahawk MSI board. I thought I saw a thread several days ago with shamino posting bioses for this board to fix mem issues, etc.. It is my understanding that 0707 is currently the bios to...




www.overclock.net


----------



## mgkhn

j o e said:


> Mine just came in the mail, so is that higher sp number better?
> View attachment 2537331


batch doesn't matter, need asus mobo to check "SP" Rating and higher numbers is good.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

j o e said:


> Mine just came in the mail, so is that higher sp number better?











You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means: Image Gallery (List View)


Browse the best of our 'You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means' image gallery and vote for your favorite!




knowyourmeme.com





You can't tell SP from the box or any way other than having an (ROG) Asus motherboard. Basically when you into the BIOS of your Asus motherboard, you'll see a SP (silicon prediction) estimate on the bottom right of your screen.


----------



## mgkhn

is hwinfo vcore reading true? (try settings for daily usage low voltage and low temps with h150i p51x + e40x) set to voltage from bios 1.24 llc4 when run cbr23 load vcore 1.11v


----------



## LionAlonso

mgkhn said:


> is hwinfo vcore reading true? (try settings for daily usage low voltage and low temps with h150i p51x + e40x) set to voltage from bios 1.24 llc4 when run cbr23 load vcore 1.11v
> 
> View attachment 2537373


Yes, its precise
Whats your sp?


----------



## mgkhn

LionAlonso said:


> Yes, its precise
> Whats your sp?


sp98 (big 107 small 81)


----------



## Gargas

12900k, Batch #V136J516 SP101 P110 / E85
Not taken the time to OC more than RAM yet.


----------



## Ichirou

Gargas said:


> 12900k, Batch #V136J516 SP101 P110 / E85
> Not taken the time to OC more than RAM yet.
> 
> View attachment 2537387


----------



## gecko991

Noice...


----------



## morph.

RobertoSampaio said:


> This is a LLC#1
> 
> View attachment 2537190
> 
> 
> And this is LLC#3
> 
> View attachment 2537191
> 
> 
> And this is a LLC#6
> 
> View attachment 2537192
> 
> 
> LLC have nothing to do with SP or stability...
> 
> "Svid behaviour" is a setting "package" of AC_LL and DC_LL.
> The "best scenario" will set them to 0.01. It's not a good idea... It's unrealistic an impedance of 0.01 mhom
> When we define an SVID and change other parameters to stabilize the system, we are compensating for an error with another error.
> When we select "trained", Asus AI OC will change AC_LL and DC_LL dynamically. Use this when you are overclocking with AI.
> 
> The best is to understand the load lines and configure them for what we want to do...
> 
> If you take a look to the CPU data sheet you will find this:
> 
> View attachment 2537194
> 
> 
> So when we buy a branded computer, we assume that the manufacturer has made these adjustments.
> 
> When we decide to build our own PC, we need to do it ourselves.
> 
> So we need to choose a LLC and set the correct DC_LL
> 
> In your case, you have a high VID and a high Vcore... you can adjust them better
> 
> Start from the beginning:
> 
> What do you want?
> 
> 
> Do benchmarks -> set an aggressive LLC, set an override voltage, synchronize all cores, use DL_LL to cheat CPU power calculations, and run the benchmark.
> Use PC for important work -> do not remove limits and set default LLC, DC_LL and AC_LL settings.
> Best performing in games -> use all CPU resources, adjust LLC, DC_LL and AC_LL to get high ST and MT performance.


Best perf gaming is my primary objective followed by strong benchmarking.

Think I got most my voltages now under control but not seemingly boosting up to 5.5

@Falkentyne @RobertoSampaio - any reccomendations on the followiung

Long Duration Package Power Limit
Package Power Time Window
Short Duration Package Power Limit
In the previous platforms I did max this out...


----------



## gecko991

Noice numbers.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

morph. said:


> Best perf gaming is my primary objective followed by strong benchmarking.
> 
> Think I got most my voltages now under control but not seemingly boosting up to 5.5
> 
> @Falkentyne @RobertoSampaio - any reccomendations on the followiung
> 
> Long Duration Package Power Limit
> Package Power Time Window
> Short Duration Package Power Limit
> In the previous platforms I did max this out...
> 
> 
> View attachment 2537398


With these voltages, you can run at least 56x...


----------



## LionAlonso

morph. said:


> Best perf gaming is my primary objective followed by strong benchmarking.
> 
> Think I got most my voltages now under control but not seemingly boosting up to 5.5
> 
> @Falkentyne @RobertoSampaio - any reccomendations on the followiung
> 
> Long Duration Package Power Limit
> Package Power Time Window
> Short Duration Package Power Limit
> In the previous platforms I did max this out...
> 
> 
> View attachment 2537398


you should have something wrong, running at those numbers u should get much more.
Also ur voltage is very high, in VID and vcore for 54x max, u dont need that much.
here is an example of my 12900k 55x 1 core and 50x all core:
u can see the lower values of VID and VCORE (more representative)
Intel Core i9 12900K @ 5000 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR (x86.fr)








And here without Hwinfo:
(888-11858)








Intel Core i9 12900K @ 5000 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


[9y9x32] Validated Dump by LIONALONSOPC (2021-12-14 03:56:31) - MB: Asus TUF GAMING Z690-PLUS D4 - RAM: 32768 MB




valid.x86.fr


----------



## morph.

@RobertoSampaio @LionAlonso cranked up 1 core usage to x56.

Tweaked the voltages a little more this is kinda a quick and dirty OC as I'm sure some of you can tell with the voltages but I'm wondering if this is a bit more in line with expectations (the max vids are now under 1.5v)? Really appreciate the assistance and extra pair of eyes with this.

CPU is an average sp84
P-core - sp95
E-core - something horrible can't remember


----------



## RobertoSampaio

morph. said:


> @RobertoSampaio @LionAlonso cranked up 1 core usage to x56.
> 
> Tweaked the voltages a little more this is kinda a quick and dirty OC as I'm sure some of you can tell with the voltages but I'm wondering if this is a bit more in line with expectations (the max vids are now under 1.5v)? Really appreciate the assistance and extra pair of eyes with this.
> 
> CPU is an average sp84
> P-core - sp95
> E-core - something horrible can't remember
> 
> View attachment 2537414


Try set 3 cores to 56x 
Are you using OCTVB?


----------



## morph.

some what i sorta loosely followed this guide


----------



## RobertoSampaio

morph. said:


> some what i sorta loosely followed this guide


Im trying to teach him too... LOL


----------



## sniperpowa

Anyone got a binned chip for sale I’ve bought 6 highest is sp84 lmao.


----------



## Ichirou

sniperpowa said:


> Anyone got a binned chip for sale I’ve bought 6 highest is sp84 lmao.
> View attachment 2537437
> 
> View attachment 2537439
> 
> View attachment 2537438


Oof. I recently bought a P-core SP98 from Carillo here. Still waiting for it in the mail. Don't really want to deal with the whole binning roulette.


----------



## morph.

sniperpowa said:


> Anyone got a binned chip for sale I’ve bought 6 highest is sp84 lmao.
> View attachment 2537437
> 
> View attachment 2537439
> 
> View attachment 2537438


big numbers for cpuz bench what cooling/clock rates are you running?


----------



## morph.

RobertoSampaio said:


> Im trying to teach him too... LOL
> 
> View attachment 2537420
> 
> 
> View attachment 2537421


@RobertoSampaio Yeah, your guide looks very comprehensive and a few things I'm finding hard to understand but will try to wrap my head around it more in the next few days when time permits.

My latest with 3 cores to 56x and OCTVB, (I didn't use the Asus octool like you just the bios TVB. How much more significant of an improvement would it be with the asus octool etc)?:


----------



## Nizzen

RobertoSampaio said:


> Im trying to teach him too... LOL
> 
> View attachment 2537420
> 
> 
> View attachment 2537421


I want to see you're boost frequency in Battlefield


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Nizzen said:


> I want to see you're boost frequency in Battlefield


I'll reset WH-info and play 30min of BFV and take a pic...


----------



## gerardfraser

RobertoSampaio said:


> I'll reset WH-info and play 30min of BFV and take a pic...


Why not just make a video and post it. Here are 5 games at 5500Mhz P-Core 4000Mhz E-Core from me.Not that it is important but I just PC game and the 12900K works fine.
Forza Horizon 5 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz 4K HDR PC Gameplay New RTSS Gauges
Forza Horizon 5 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz 4K HDR PC Gameplay New RTSS Gauges - YouTube

Cyberpunk 2077 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz 4K HDR PC Gameplay New RTSS Overlay Gauges
Cyberpunk 2077 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz 4K HDR PC Gameplay New RTSS Overlay Gauges - YouTube

Far Cry 6 12900K OverClock 5500Mhz
Far Cry 6 12900K OverClock 5500Mhz RTSS OSD New Gauges - YouTube

Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order 4K HDR 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz
Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order 4K HDR 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz - YouTube

Shadow of the Tomb Raider4K HDR PC Gameplay 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz


----------



## IronAge

Somebody on a german HW Forum got P-Cores 110 / E-Cores 82, worst Core VID 1.258V  (with Bios 0806)


----------



## jomama22

gerardfraser said:


> Why not just make a video and post it. Here are 5 games at 5500Mhz P-Core 4000Mhz E-Core from me.Not that it is important but I just PC game and the 12900K works fine.
> Forza Horizon 5 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz 4K HDR PC Gameplay New RTSS Gauges
> Forza Horizon 5 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz 4K HDR PC Gameplay New RTSS Gauges - YouTube
> 
> Cyberpunk 2077 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz 4K HDR PC Gameplay New RTSS Overlay Gauges
> Cyberpunk 2077 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz 4K HDR PC Gameplay New RTSS Overlay Gauges - YouTube
> 
> Far Cry 6 12900K OverClock 5500Mhz
> Far Cry 6 12900K OverClock 5500Mhz RTSS OSD New Gauges - YouTube
> 
> Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order 4K HDR 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz
> Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order 4K HDR 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz - YouTube
> 
> Shadow of the Tomb Raider4K HDR PC Gameplay 12900K Overclock 5500Mhz


You have literally posted this at least 10 times in 5 separate threads lmao


----------



## gerardfraser

Not true and why do you care what I post and when I post and where I post. Are you trying to pull that usa democrat stuff on me. I am Canadaian I do not care about usa and there point of view


----------



## jomama22

gerardfraser said:


> Not true and why do you care what I post and when I post and where I post. Are you trying to pull that usa democrat stuff on me. I am Canadaian I do not care about usa and there point of view


Lol what?

I can go through your post history and list them here for you if you would like.


----------



## gerardfraser

jomama22 said:


> Lol what?
> 
> I can go through your post history and list them here for you if you would like.


Are you trying to shame or something,you do not approve of my posting 12900K overclock in the 12900K overclock thread,why are you trying to tell me what to do on a forum.Why are you trying to control on what I post. I am going to drink so vodka and do my woman and watch some hockeyy and play a few PC games today,care to tell me when I can do these things also.Do I need your permission to post on this forum,well I am going to post this below,you can critique me or should I set 57/53 and be a hero like you. Get off the glue and worry about your own stuff. 

55/52 P-Core


54 Pcore


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Nizzen said:


> I want to see you're boost frequency in Battlefield


45 min playing BFV 3440x1440 all set ULTRA

Averages:
Room temp: 30C
Water temp: 38C
CPU package: 69C
CPU package power: 140W
VID: 1.31V
Vcore: 1.31V

Max:
CPU Freq.: 56x
Max Effec. clock: 49x
Max Core temp: 85C
Max CPU Package Power: 195W





















Going to test SOTTR....


----------



## Luggage

RobertoSampaio said:


> 45 min playing BFV 3440x1440 all set ULTRA
> 
> Averages:
> Room temp: 30C
> Water temp: 38C
> CPU package: 69C
> CPU package power: 140W
> VID: 1.31V
> Vcore: 1.31V
> 
> Max:
> CPU Freq.: 56x
> Max Effec. clock: 49x
> Max Core temp: 85C
> Max CPU Package Power: 195W
> 
> View attachment 2537544
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2537543
> 
> 
> 
> Going to test SOTTR....


Interesting how the highest boosting is not the highest average. Or is this just strange with my amd cppc tinted goggles?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Luggage said:


> Interesting how the highest boosting is not the highest average. Or is this just strange with my amd cppc tinted goggles?


It's really strange...
I though the average would be about 52x because the CPU ran all the time at 53x or 52x...


----------



## morph.

RobertoSampaio said:


> It's really strange...
> I though the average would be about 52x because the CPU ran all the time at 53x or 52x...


maybe due to heat generation?


----------



## Ichirou

This is why I'm part of the fixed Vcore fixed clock speed gang 

Less variance and no surprises. I know what I'm getting and pushing on the CPU.

Besides, for work reasons, having a constant "idle" core clocks higher actually helps and is very noticeable to me.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

But the question is: 

Do we need the CPU all the time at that fixed clock and voltage?

I really don't understand why "we" think "we" can do a better job with cores, voltages, frequencies ...

Probably the Intel and MBs vendors engineering are loosing their time with Turbo boost 2.0, Turbo Boost Max Technology 3.0, Enhanced Intel SpeedStep, loadlines, TVB...

Of course that we can do all this better ... LOL
We only need to sync all cores and set an override voltage. 

Intel is working on an enhanced TVB right now... 
I think I'm going to tell them this is a bullshit.. LOL

Of course I'm kidding... 

I understand that it's more comfortable to set a voltage, a frequency and not concern about AC_LL etc...
But I can do this with my 3770K... 
With a 12900K I want to understand all possibilities and explore all of them...

I want to hit 6000MHz in some cores !!!! I want that my full load frequency changes with temperature... 
I want my CPU automatically take advantage in the winter when my room temp will be 20C.
Furthermore, I want that My CPU do the correct Power calculations. 
I want to learn all of this !!!!


This is 45min of SOTTR
The 12900k run this game with only the e-cores I think... LOL


----------



## Ichirou

RobertoSampaio said:


> But the question is:
> 
> Do we need the CPU all the time at that fixed clock and voltage?
> 
> I really don't understand why "we" think "we" can do a better job with cores, voltages, frequencies ...
> 
> Probably the Intel and MBs vendors engineering are loosing their time with Turbo boost 2.0, Turbo Boost Max Technology 3.0, Enhanced Intel SpeedStep, loadlines, TVB...
> 
> Of course that we can do all this better ... LOL
> We only need to sync all cores and set an override voltage.
> 
> Intel is working on an enhanced TVB right now...
> I think I'm going to tell them this is a bullshit.. LOL
> 
> Of course I'm kidding...
> 
> I understand that it's more comfortable to set a voltage, a frequency and not concern about AC_LL etc...
> But I can do this with my 3770K...
> With a 12900K I want to understand all possibilities and explore all of them...
> 
> I want to hit 6000MHz in some cores !!!! I want that my full load frequency changes with temperature...
> I want my CPU automatically take advantage in the winter when my room temp will be 20C.
> Furthermore, I want that My CPU do the correct Power calculations.
> I want to learn all of this !!!!
> 
> 
> This is 45min of SOTTR
> The 12900k run this game with only the e-cores I think... LOL
> 
> View attachment 2537556


That's fair. To me, CPU overclocking isn't as important as RAM overclocking, so I'd rather not pour hours into learning the specifics of it 
Too much complexity = too much frustration


----------



## Nizzen

RobertoSampaio said:


> 45 min playing BFV 3440x1440 all set ULTRA
> 
> Averages:
> Room temp: 30C
> Water temp: 38C
> CPU package: 69C
> CPU package power: 140W
> VID: 1.31V
> Vcore: 1.31V
> 
> Max:
> CPU Freq.: 56x
> Max Effec. clock: 49x
> Max Core temp: 85C
> Max CPU Package Power: 195W
> 
> View attachment 2537544
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2537543
> 
> 
> 
> Going to test SOTTR....


Ingame it's like 4900mhz all p-core?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Nizzen said:


> Ingame it's like 4900mhz all p-core?


I need to learn how to record my gameplay... LOL


----------



## Ichirou

RobertoSampaio said:


> I need to learn how to record my gameplay... LOL


Pretty sure most people just use GeForce Experience or OBS with NVENC.


----------



## Forsaken1

Lock them p cores at 53 1.3v and let it rip.

AL boys get in this








Intel XTU2 Benchmark Comp


no, nada..just a mini stress test app.. :ROFLMAO: Wow I'm going to have to issue another apology to AMD because the second benchmark comp i just posted (TS bench) is mutually exclusive as well, only supports Intel processors. I swear I didn't do it on purpose! I must warn you that while I...




www.overclock.net


----------



## ViTosS

Ichirou said:


> That's fair. To me, CPU overclocking isn't as important as RAM overclocking, so I'd rather not pour hours into learning the specifics of it
> Too much complexity = too much frustration


Biggest gains in framerate today comes from memory OC and GPU OC, if you see most recent CPUs are releasing with very low OC range (considering our cooling like air/AIO/custom WC), so if you OC like 200-300Mhz won't change that much even if you are completely CPU bound with your GPU usage being bottlenecked...


----------



## ViTosS

Nizzen said:


> Ingame it's like 4900mhz all p-core?


Considering BFV uses a lot of CPU, probably the CPU stood at his full load frequency 51x or something most of the time, it may have reached more in some cores if you see he had almost 90c playing a game, so probably there was a very short moment some cores ate 53x and more with more voltage, which would explain so high core temps...


----------



## morph.

ViTosS said:


> Biggest gains in framerate today comes from memory OC and GPU OC, if you see most recent CPUs are releasing with very low OC range (considering our cooling like air/AIO/custom WC), so if you OC like 200-300Mhz won't change that much even if you are completely CPU bound with your GPU usage being bottlenecked...


There is one thing people don't really pay attention to IMHO it's important that is with CPU oc's it helps improve the fps lows and the floor gets raised.

But 100% GPU and Memory oc has the best gains with modern equipment these days for 1440p resolution and higher.

Mind you this was a nice comparison from my heavily optimised 11900k and I haven't even OC'd my ram yet its just on XMP: Result


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Ichirou said:


> Pretty sure most people just use GeForce Experience or OBS with NVENC.


I recorded BFV ... 6GB of video LOL
Now I need to learn how to cut and publish...


----------



## gerardfraser

Here is a quick Battlefield 2042 video of 24/7 CPU all Core clocks.Where I actually show all the p/e core clocks in OSD for anyone interested
5400Mhz P-Core
4000Mhz E-Core


----------



## ViTosS

morph. said:


> There is one thing people don't really pay attention to IMHO it's important that is with CPU oc's it helps improve the fps lows and the floor gets raised.
> 
> But 100% GPU and Memory oc has the best gains with modern equipment these days for 1440p resolution and higher.
> 
> Mind you this was a nice comparison from my heavily optimised 11900k and I haven't even OC'd my ram yet its just on XMP: Result


But benchmark is completely different (not talking about gaming benchmark), I can get way more fps from OCing my RAM from like usual people use 3200CL16 to 4400CL16 than keep the same 3200CL16 and increase CPU clock from 5.0 to 5.3Ghz.


----------



## morph.

ViTosS said:


> But benchmark is completely different (not talking about gaming benchmark), I can get way more fps from OCing my RAM from like usual people use 3200CL16 to 4400CL16 than keep the same 3200CL16 and increase CPU clock from 5.0 to 5.3Ghz.


I think I already said, "But 100% GPU and Memory oc has the best gains with modern equipment these days for 1440p resolution and higher."

Just pointing out people forget some/discount the benefits of raising the floor of the min fps when ocing modern cpus


----------



## marti69

morph. said:


> @RobertoSampaio Yeah, your guide looks very comprehensive and a few things I'm finding hard to understand but will try to wrap my head around it more in the next few days when time permits.
> 
> My latest with 3 cores to 56x and OCTVB, (I didn't use the Asus octool like you just the bios TVB. How much more significant of an improvement would it be with the asus octool etc)?:
> View attachment 2537474


your single core score is low for 5.6 man i get 915 score with same frequ boost.


----------



## morph.

Hey yall, whats the main differences between cb15 cbr20 cbr23 again?


----------



## morph.

marti69 said:


> your single core score is low for 5.6 man i get 915 score with same frequ boost.


I concur I think it's downclocking a bin or two once it hits a certain temp due to OCTVB. Or perhaps some background apps holding on to a thread to be active throwing the active core oc off.

What cooling and overclocking method are you using?

latest I got now is:


----------



## marti69

morph. said:


> I concur I think it's downclocking a bin or two once it hits a certain temp due to OCTVB. Or perhaps some background apps holding on to a thread to be active throwing the active core oc off.
> 
> What cooling and overclocking method are you using?
> 
> latest I got now is:
> View attachment 2537601


i have ek costum loop also my cpu is delided my sp is 98 (107 sp on pcores 82 on ecores) maximus z690 hero bios 802 vid voltage disable and fixed vcore 1.43 llc5 and i can even do 5.7 on 2 cores with 1.45v wich gives around 930point on cpuz single core bench and 5.5 all cores with ecores disabled temps around 74 75c on cinebench r23

if you have low score try switching off VBS Core Isolation.


----------



## matique

marti69 said:


> i have ek costum loop also my cpu is delided my sp is 98 (107 sp on pcores 82 on ecores) maximus z690 hero bios 802 vid voltage disable and fixed vcore 1.43 llc5 and i can even do 5.7 on 2 cores with 1.45v wich gives around 930point on cpuz single core bench and 5.5 all cores with ecores disabled temps around 74 75c on cinebench r23
> 
> if you have low score try switching off VBS Core Isolation.


What retention bracket are you using for your delid? I wasn't aware there was any that was released into the market already.


----------



## marti69

matique said:


> What retention bracket are you using for your delid? I wasn't aware there was any that was released into the market already.


im using lapped his with liquid metal.


----------



## mattxx88

RobertoSampaio said:


> I need to learn how to record my gameplay... LOL


you can use afterburner and put on osd pcore freq
i did a test las tnight, my oc isa 52x when full load + octvb enabled +1
in bf2042 freq keeps 5.3ghz most of the game, sometimes downclock to 5.2


----------



## matique

marti69 said:


> im using lapped his with liquid metal.


nicely done! What delid tool did you use?


----------



## matique

managed to improve the 5600c36 sticks a little! Same timings as before, but played with dram clk and got it to 6133c32 stable. Very happy, given the circumstances.


----------



## marti69

matique said:


> nicely done! What delid tool did you use?


a 1200 socket delid tool modified to fit 1700 cpu lol.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Nizzen said:


> I want to see you're boost frequency in Battlefield


My first video.... LOL
All game setting ULTRA


----------



## LionAlonso

RobertoSampaio said:


> My first video.... LOL
> All game setting ULTRA


U even uploaded it with HDR!! 
Not bad to be ur first one
Pretty good daily oc u got.


----------



## Luggage

Ichirou said:


> That's fair. To me, CPU overclocking isn't as important as RAM overclocking, so I'd rather not pour hours into learning the specifics of it
> Too much complexity = too much frustration


You don’t think memory OC is complex?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Luggage said:


> You don’t think memory OC is complex?


For me, OC memory is worse to understand than CPU....
I'm running my DDR5 on 4800... LOL


----------



## Nizzen

gerardfraser said:


> Here is a quick Battlefield 2042 video of 24/7 CPU all Core clocks.Where I actually show all the p/e core clocks in OSD for anyone interested
> 5400Mhz P-Core
> 4000Mhz E-Core


Try 1080p low with 200fps, and the cpu load is 100% p core


----------



## Ichirou

Luggage said:


> You don’t think memory OC is complex?





RobertoSampaio said:


> For me, OC memory is worse to understand than CPU....
> I'm running my DDR5 on 4800... LOL


To me, complex CPU overclocking feels like trying to trying to play a wooden marble maze, lol. RAM overclocking is at least pretty binary; it either works or it doesn't, and you generally go in one direction (although you _can_ overtighten some timings).


----------



## RobertoSampaio

BFV - OCTVB - 5.3GHz







SOTTR - OCTVB - 5.4GHz







PlanetSide 2 - OCTVB - 5.4GHz


----------



## geriatricpollywog

RobertoSampaio said:


> But the question is:
> 
> Do we need the CPU all the time at that fixed clock and voltage?
> 
> I really don't understand why "we" think "we" can do a better job with cores, voltages, frequencies ...
> 
> Probably the Intel and MBs vendors engineering are loosing their time with Turbo boost 2.0, Turbo Boost Max Technology 3.0, Enhanced Intel SpeedStep, loadlines, TVB...
> 
> Of course that we can do all this better ... LOL
> We only need to sync all cores and set an override voltage.
> 
> Intel is working on an enhanced TVB right now...
> I think I'm going to tell them this is a bullshit.. LOL
> 
> Of course I'm kidding...
> 
> I understand that it's more comfortable to set a voltage, a frequency and not concern about AC_LL etc...
> But I can do this with my 3770K...
> With a 12900K I want to understand all possibilities and explore all of them...
> 
> I want to hit 6000MHz in some cores !!!! I want that my full load frequency changes with temperature...
> I want my CPU automatically take advantage in the winter when my room temp will be 20C.
> Furthermore, I want that My CPU do the correct Power calculations.
> I want to learn all of this !!!!
> 
> 
> This is 45min of SOTTR
> The 12900k run this game with only the e-cores I think... LOL
> 
> View attachment 2537556


TVB is hard and confusing. And don’t you need a die sense board for it? Me want easy.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

geriatricpollywog said:


> TVB is hard and confusing. And don’t you need a die sense board for it? Me want easy.


Die sense helps to adjust load lines comparing VID and VCore.

But you can use VRM POWER and CPU PACKAGE POWER to do this. When they match, you set the DC_LL.

TVB itself is easy if you use the Asus profiles...
The major problem is not the full load adjustments, but the light load and idle voltages...


----------



## Ohim

RobertoSampaio said:


> BFV - OCTVB - 5.3GHz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SOTTR - OCTVB - 5.4GHz


What GPU do you have? You never said anything about it.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Ohim said:


> What GPU do you have? You never said anything about it.


Gigabyte Gaming OC RTX 3080 undervolted.


----------



## Ohim

RobertoSampaio said:


> Gigabyte Gaming OC RTX 3080 undervolted.


Are you sure your results are at 3440x1440? Because this is what i get in similar locations as your video


----------



## Ichirou

Ohim said:


> Are you sure your results are at 3440x1440? Because this is what i get in similar locations as your video
> 
> View attachment 2537691
> View attachment 2537692
> 
> View attachment 2537693
> View attachment 2537694


Impossible to compare two different systems as there are always too many variables to consider


----------



## Ohim

Ichirou said:


> Impossible to compare two different systems as there are always too many variables to consider


It's about a very large perf difference. He doesn\t show details, GPU , i have to ask for these. 

And yes, in an open game is impossible to have the exact same scenario but the FPS difference here is huge!


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Ohim said:


> Are you sure your results are at 3440x1440? Because this is what i get in similar locations as your video
> 
> View attachment 2537691
> View attachment 2537692
> 
> View attachment 2537693
> View attachment 2537694


All games 3440x1440 ULTRA settings.... Vsync on...
In PlanetSide I have an FPS limit of 100.
In BFV I think my the limit is 165...


----------



## Ohim

RobertoSampaio said:


> All games 3440x1440 ULTRA settings.... Vsync on...
> In PlanetSide I have an FPS limit of 100.
> In BFV I think the limit is 165...


That would explain why you don't hit 200 FPS or more but you are still below 165 FPS in the same zones which makes me wonder what is wrong in your system. That CPU is clearly way faster than mine and my 6800XT is UV from the driver.


----------



## Falkentyne

RobertoSampaio said:


> All games 3440x1440 ULTRA settings.... Vsync on...
> In PlanetSide I have an FPS limit of 100.
> In BFV I think the limit is 165...


BF5 fps limit is 200.


----------



## LionAlonso

Could be the ram? He said he had it at 4800 not tuned?


----------



## Nizzen

Falkentyne said:


> BF5 fps limit is 200.


_"Gametime_._MaxVariableFps 0 " = no cap _


----------



## dante`afk

Luggage said:


> Interesting how the highest boosting is not the highest average. Or is this just strange with my amd cppc tinted goggles?





RobertoSampaio said:


> It's really strange...
> I though the average would be about 52x because the CPU ran all the time at 53x or 52x...


pretty sure because the average effective clock in hwinfo is taking also e-cores into the calc?



RobertoSampaio said:


> But the question is:
> 
> Do we need the CPU all the time at that fixed clock and voltage?


we don't and that's why windows power plan downclocks to 500mhz.


----------



## Luggage

dante`afk said:


> pretty sure because the average effective clock in hwinfo is taking also e-cores into the calc?
> 
> 
> 
> we don't and that's why windows power plan downclocks to 500mhz.


E-cores have their own data, I’m just looking at the p-core max vs average for that core.


----------



## Exilon

TVB Voltage Optimization works against the configured TjMax right?


----------



## schuldig

Ichirou said:


> Impossible to compare two different systems as there are always too many variables to consider


let alone the unknwon differences in OS, settings, configs themselves... you're 100% right


----------



## LionAlonso

Exilon said:


> TVB Voltage Optimization works against the configured TjMax right?


It shouldnt.
Imagine u put 50 as tjmax.
It shouldnt put the voltage it would put at 100% normal TJmax
Voltage stays the same


----------



## morph.

RobertoSampaio said:


> Die sense helps to adjust load lines comparing VID and VCore.
> 
> But you can use VRM POWER and CPU PACKAGE POWER to do this. When they match, you set the DC_LL.
> 
> TVB itself is easy if you use the Asus profiles...
> The major problem is not the full load adjustments, but the light load and idle voltages...


@RobertoSampaio I'd love some clarity on some things the Temp A vs Temp B in OCTVB if you can share, please  Are A light loads and B heavy or just temperature thresholds?

For instance, temp A = 60 with 1 bin does that mean it drops 1 bin down once it hits 60 degrees and when Temp B = 70 and 1 bin at say single core. Does that mean it drops 2x the bin count accumulating the temp 1 bin drop as well at 70 degrees? or is it supposed to boost 1-2 bins and I'm crossing my wires?

The vf curve control/influences the core's vid along with LLC/ AC_LL / DC_LL any other factors that can influence or change this?

Lastly do you and if so leave svid behaviour to auto instead of the other settings?

Thanks!


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Now that I've learned how to make videos you're going to have to put up with me... LOL

I think the best OCTVB is
57x3 - 55x5 - 53x8 (+2bin)...
Full load at P51x/E40x
All games I tested run 53x..


----------



## sugi0lover

RobertoSampaio said:


> Now that I've learned how to make videos you're going to have to put up with me... LOL
> 
> I think the best OCTVB is
> 57x3 - 55x5 - 53x8 (+2bin)...
> Full load at P51x/E40x
> All games I tested run 53x..


Thanks for sharing these. Do you know how much the video recording at the same time of playing makes your fps lower?


----------



## morph.

RobertoSampaio said:


> Now that I've learned how to make videos you're going to have to put up with me... LOL
> 
> I think the best OCTVB is
> 57x3 - 55x5 - 53x8 (+2bin)...
> Full load at P51x/E40x
> All games I tested run 53x..


would love if you can assist with my query above


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for sharing these. Do you know how much the video recording at the same time of playing makes your fps lower?


Shouldn't be more than 1% with GeForce Experience; Nvidia optimized their recording engine insanely well. As long as you save it straight to an SSD, after all.


----------



## j o e

I just got my 12900k set up, I ran an aida64 gpu stress test with an instance of furmark and I’m pulling 930 watts


----------



## RobertoSampaio

morph. said:


> would love if you can assist with my query above



Svid behavior has no effect after setting AC_LL and DC_LL manually.
If you leave AC_LL and DC_LL AUTO, the svid behavior will set them.


I'll try to make OCTVB easy...
Let's use my actual manual OCTVB settings as an example:










First line is for only 1 active P-core.
So this line will be used when only 1 core (anyone) is active, and the others are parked or not loaded.
In this condition, If Core temp is < 60 this core will run 57x.
If temp is 60 to 69 this core will run 56x.
If temp is >= 70 this core will run 55x

The second line is for when 2 cores (anyone) are active and the others are sleeping or not loaded.
If temp < 56 these 2 cores will run 57x.
If temp is 56 to 65 these 2 cores will run 56x
If temp is >= 66 these 2 core will run 55x

The third line is for when 3 cores (anyone) are active and the others are sleeping or not loaded.
If temp < 52 these 3 cores will run 57x.
If temp is 52 to 61 these 3 cores will run 56x
If temp is >= 62 these 3 core will run 55x

The fourth line is for when 4 cores (anyone) are active and the others are sleeping or not loaded.
If temp < 66 these 4 cores will run 55x.
If temp is 66 to 75 these 4 cores will run 54x
If temp is >= 76 these 4 core will run 53x

So let's go to the last line....

The last line is for when all cores are active and loaded.
If temp < 72 these 8 cores will run 53x.
If temp is 72 to 81 these 8 cores will run 52x
If temp is >= 82 these 4 core will run 51x

Once understood, let's try some tricks:











You can use tempB = 100C to change the full load logic.
This way your full load will be 52x, because when 8 cores are active and loaded, and temp hit 72 the freq. will drop from 53x to 52x... and the next temp step is the TJmax.

Another trick:











You can chage the BinA (or BinB) to force 2 drops... So when temp hits 72 freq. will be 51x, and when hit 82 freq. will be 50x.

TempA is linked to BinA and TempB is Linked to BinB

You can change BinA and BinB changing the frequency more than 1 step in any position.

Another example:

This table below is an Asus +2Boost profile automatically calculated by the Asus algo for the following "by core" configuration:
58x2 - 57x3 - 55x5 - 53x8.











You can edit all the temps adding a few degrees..
+15C to the 53x8 (6,7,8 active cores)
+ 5C to the 55x5 (4 and 5 active cores)
And keep 57x3 and 58x2 untouched.










And you can try any kind of combination that you can boot... LOLOLOL

I use to test with the Asus OCTool and when I find some nice setting I write to the BIOS.

-----------------------------------

Q: "The vf curve control/influences the core's vid along with LLC/ AC_LL / DC_LL any other factors that can influence or change this?"
A: Temp, VmaxStress and Voltage Optimization.


----------



## morph.

RobertoSampaio said:


> Svid behavior has no effect after setting AC_LL and DC_LL manually.
> If you leave AC_LL and DC_LL AUTO, the svid behavior will set them.
> 
> 
> I'll try to make OCTVB easy...
> Let's use my actual manual OCTVB settings as an example:
> 
> View attachment 2537746
> 
> 
> First line is for only 1 active P-core.
> So this line will be used when only 1 core (anyone) is active, and the others are parked or not loaded.
> In this condition, If Core temp is < 60 this core will run 57x.
> If temp is 60 to 69 this core will run 56x.
> If temp is >= 70 this core will run 55x
> 
> The second line is for when 2 cores (anyone) are active and the others are sleeping or not loaded.
> If temp < 56 these 2 cores will run 57x.
> If temp is 56 to 65 these 2 cores will run 56x
> If temp is >= 66 these 2 core will run 55x
> 
> The third line is for when 3 cores (anyone) are active and the others are sleeping or not loaded.
> If temp < 52 these 3 cores will run 57x.
> If temp is 52 to 61 these 3 cores will run 56x
> If temp is >= 62 these 3 core will run 55x
> 
> The fourth line is for when 4 cores (anyone) are active and the others are sleeping or not loaded.
> If temp < 66 these 4 cores will run 55x.
> If temp is 66 to 75 these 4 cores will run 54x
> If temp is >= 76 these 4 core will run 53x
> 
> So let's go to the last line....
> 
> The last line is for when all cores are active and loaded.
> If temp < 72 these 8 cores will run 53x.
> If temp is 72 to 81 these 8 cores will run 52x
> If temp is >= 52 these 4 core will run 51x
> 
> Once understood lets try some tricks:
> 
> View attachment 2537748
> 
> 
> 
> You can use tempB = 100C to change the full load logic.
> This way your full load will be 52x, because when 8 cores are active and loaded, and temp hit 72 the freq. will drop from 53x to 52x... and the next temp step is the TJmax.
> 
> Another trick:
> 
> View attachment 2537749
> 
> 
> 
> You can chage the BinA (or BinB) to force 2 drops... So when temp hits 72 freq. will be 51x, and when hit 82 freq. will be 50x.
> 
> TempA is linked to BinA and TempB is Linked to BinB
> 
> You can change BinA and BinB changing the frequency more than 1 step in any position.
> 
> Another example:
> 
> This table below is an Asus +2Boost profile automatically calculated by the Asus algo for the following "by core" configuration:
> 58x2 - 57x3 - 55x5 - 53x8.
> 
> View attachment 2537750
> 
> 
> 
> You can edit all the temps adding a few degrees..
> +15C to the 53x8 (6,7,8 active cores)
> + 5C to the 55x5 (4 and 5 active cores)
> And keep 57x3 and 58x2 untouched.
> 
> View attachment 2537751
> 
> 
> And you can try any kind of combination that you can boot... LOLOLOL
> 
> I use to test with the Asus OCTool and when I find some nice setting I write to the BIOS.
> 
> -----------------------------------
> 
> Q: "The vf curve control/influences the core's vid along with LLC/ AC_LL / DC_LL any other factors that can influence or change this?"
> A: Temp, VmaxStress and Voltage Optimization.


Legendary response thankyou for taking the time much appreciated.

This also leads me to another question with 1, 2, 3 and 8 active cores why won't the temperature A threshold be higher since there is potentially more thermal headroom to hold the higher clock longer?

Saw some of your previous screenshots that showed I think like 49. So when 3 active cores are running the temp threshold is even lower so holding on to that peak boost becomes much more unlikely.

One more thing what is your set per core usage ratio I assume that's the baseline plus the OCTVB?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

morph. said:


> Legendary response thankyou for taking the time much appreciated.
> 
> This also leads me to another question with 1, 2 or 3 active cores why won't the temperature threshold be higher since there is potentially more thermal headroom to hold the higher clock longer?
> 
> Saw some of your previous screenshots that showed I think like 49. So when 3 active cores are running the temp threshold is even lower so holding on to that peak boost becomes much more unlikely.
> 
> One more thing what is your set per core usage ratio I assume that's the baseline plus the OCTVB?


Q: This also leads me to another question with 1, 2 or 3 active cores why won't the temperature threshold be higher since there is potentially more thermal headroom to hold the higher clock longer?
A: because we are talking about 5.7GHz... LOL. Its not easy to run 57x with high temps... You will need much more voltage and this become a snow ball... More voltage, more temp.

Q: Saw some of your previous screenshots that showed I think like 49. So when 3 active cores are running the temp threshold is even lower so holding on to that peak boost becomes much more unlikely.
A: That's the idea... 57x will be used for a very light loads... If you have a mid-load probably you will run 55x or 56x... And if the load increases, probably 54x or 55x. 

Q: One more thing what is your set per core usage ratio I assume that's the baseline plus the OCTVB? 
A: First I test the full load freq.... I found P51x/E40x is my best... So I know my last "By Core" line shall be 51x.... So I know my "by core" will be finished with 51x8
Now I'll test the highest frequency I can hit with 3 cores (once I need the same voltage for 1 or for 3 cores, I use to set the max freq. for 3 cores).
I decide the max VID I'll admit for this... and set this value to "IA VR Voltage Limit". I start with 1500mv.
So now I start to rise freq and adaptive voltage until I see the cores are hitting the 1500mv VID. At this point, I start to lower Adaptive until I'm stable.

And this is the best game I ever played... LOL. 
Rise freq, rise voltage, lower voltage, change AC_LL, change the limit, change the LLC, select best cores, test "per core adaptive voltage", Add some cores on intermediary freq., change the OCTVB temps, test, test, test...


I started that in September and hit 58x in October. At November I had 2 cores running at 59x and all hitting 58x... 
I'm proud I can say I tested all Asus's CPU features like OCTVB, load lines, adaptive voltages, By core, Voltage limits, etc.. 
All this before the official release date for Intel's Alder Lake CPU and the Asus MBs. And I can say, no doubt, Asus have the best MB for OCing. All I asked Asus, they did. 

I'll give you a spoiler... Next Bios will have a very nice feature for loadlines !!!!


----------



## Ichirou

RobertoSampaio said:


> Q: This also leads me to another question with 1, 2 or 3 active cores why won't the temperature threshold be higher since there is potentially more thermal headroom to hold the higher clock longer?
> A: because we are talking about 5.7GHz... LOL. Its not easy to run 57x with high temps... You will need much more voltage and this become a snow ball... More voltage, more temp.
> 
> Q: Saw some of your previous screenshots that showed I think like 49. So when 3 active cores are running the temp threshold is even lower so holding on to that peak boost becomes much more unlikely.
> A: That's the idea... 57x will be used for a very light loads... If you have a mid-load probably you will run 55x or 56x... And if the load increases, probably 54x or 55x.
> 
> Q: One more thing what is your set per core usage ratio I assume that's the baseline plus the OCTVB?
> A: First I test the full load freq.... I found P51x/E40x is my best... So I know my last "By Core" line shall be 51x.... So I know my "by core" will be finished with 51x8
> Now I'll test the highest frequency I can hit with 3 cores (once I need the same voltage for 1 or for 3 cores, I use to set the max freq. for 3 cores).
> I decide the max VID I'll admit for this... and set this value to "IA VR Voltage Limit". I start with 1500mv.
> So now I start to rise freq and adaptive voltage until I see the cores are hitting the 1500mv VID. At this point, I start to lower Adaptive until I'm stable.
> 
> And this is the best game I ever played... LOL.
> Rise freq, rise voltage, lower voltage, change AC_LL, change the limit, change the LLC, select best cores, test "per core adaptive voltage", Add some cores on intermediary freq., change the OCTVB temps, test, test, test...
> 
> 
> I started that in September and hit 58x in October. At November I had 2 cores running at 59x and all hitting 58x...
> I'm proud I can say I tested all Asus's CPU features like OCTVB, load lines, adaptive voltages, By core, Voltage limits, etc..
> All this before the official release date for Intel's Alder Lake CPU and the Asus MBs. And I can say, no doubt, Asus have the best MB for OCing. All I asked Asus, they did.
> 
> I'll give you a spoiler... Next Bios will have a very nice feature for loadlines !!!!


What would you say is a decent all-core clock speed without going to extreme voltages? Say, under 1.4V? And without E-cores?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Ichirou said:


> What would you say is a decent all-core clock speed without going to extreme voltages? Say, under 1.4V? And without E-cores?


This is the point...
Suppose you need Vcore= 1.20v for full load (51x).
So if you set voltage override of 1.20v you will crash...You will need more than 1.20v at idle, right?
Let's say with 1.30v you are stable, and at full load you have that 1.20v. Perfect !

So why will you sync all cores to 51x if you have 1.30V at idle? 
With 1.3 you can run all cores at 53x light loads!

But answering your question: stay below 1.55v at idle and don't go over 90C at full load.


----------



## Falkentyne

Ichirou said:


> What would you say is a decent all-core clock speed without going to extreme voltages? Say, under 1.4V? And without E-cores?


For E cores enabled:

For daily without running Stockfish: 5.1 ghz @ 1.17v load (die sense), 5.2 ghz @ 1.243v load (e.g. game stable).
For Stockfish stable: 5.1 ghz @ 1.21v load, 5.2 ghz @ 1.270v load (good luck cooling this).

Without E cores, you can probably get by with lower voltage (i forgot how much lower, maybe 20mv-30mv for game stable?), but with the E cores disabled, you need to decide if you want to be Minecraft (loading screen) stable without instant BSOD'ing on load, because for some reason, both Minecraft and Cinebench R15 seem to require slightly more load vcore to pass than Battlefield 5, or even Cinebench R20/R23. This seems to be extremely easy to test with 5.3 on P cores.

And R15 and Minecraft do NOT use AVX at all. Seems the SSE speedups and increased IPC.. @cstkl1 had a theory that R15/Minecraft needing more vcore to be stable with E cores disabled than R20/R23 was related in some way to the strange prime95 loop completion speedups when you disable AVX in the BIOS on Rocket Lake (it made the loops finish in turbo speed)...not touching that though, too busy studying chess to really deal with this now


----------



## morph.

RobertoSampaio said:


> Q: This also leads me to another question with 1, 2 or 3 active cores why won't the temperature threshold be higher since there is potentially more thermal headroom to hold the higher clock longer?
> A: because we are talking about 5.7GHz... LOL. Its not easy to run 57x with high temps... You will need much more voltage and this become a snow ball... More voltage, more temp.
> 
> Q: Saw some of your previous screenshots that showed I think like 49. So when 3 active cores are running the temp threshold is even lower so holding on to that peak boost becomes much more unlikely.
> A: That's the idea... 57x will be used for a very light loads... If you have a mid-load probably you will run 55x or 56x... And if the load increases, probably 54x or 55x.
> 
> Q: One more thing what is your set per core usage ratio I assume that's the baseline plus the OCTVB?
> A: First I test the full load freq.... I found P51x/E40x is my best... So I know my last "By Core" line shall be 51x.... So I know my "by core" will be finished with 51x8
> Now I'll test the highest frequency I can hit with 3 cores (once I need the same voltage for 1 or for 3 cores, I use to set the max freq. for 3 cores).
> I decide the max VID I'll admit for this... and set this value to "IA VR Voltage Limit". I start with 1500mv.
> So now I start to rise freq and adaptive voltage until I see the cores are hitting the 1500mv VID. At this point, I start to lower Adaptive until I'm stable.
> 
> And this is the best game I ever played... LOL.
> Rise freq, rise voltage, lower voltage, change AC_LL, change the limit, change the LLC, select best cores, test "per core adaptive voltage", Add some cores on intermediary freq., change the OCTVB temps, test, test, test...
> 
> 
> I started that in September and hit 58x in October. At November I had 2 cores running at 59x and all hitting 58x...
> I'm proud I can say I tested all Asus's CPU features like OCTVB, load lines, adaptive voltages, By core, Voltage limits, etc..
> All this before the official release date for Intel's Alder Lake CPU and the Asus MBs. And I can say, no doubt, Asus have the best MB for OCing. All I asked Asus, they did.
> 
> I'll give you a spoiler... Next Bios will have a very nice feature for load-lines !!!!


Thanks, I made some assumptions and was a bit confused with some others but this has given me clarity thankyou soo much 

This also explains why even when I run CPU z ST it's not reflecting a high ST clock score but more like x53/54 etc...


----------



## BattlePhenom

Got into the 30K club with an SP83 chip and 360 aio.
P-cores 54,54,53,53,52,52,52,52 E-cores 41 Ring 42 Vcore 1.39 
Core 7 peaks at 88c. It's looking 24/7 stable.


----------



## Xiph

I'm struggling with idle reboots. I have Strix-A + 12700k.
Reboot might happen after 15min - 5h idling without any cpu heavy apps open. It is like power cut, so nothing in event viewer, except "non healthy boot" log event.

I have tried these, but always idle reboot at some point:

auto loadline level + impedances
auto all memory settings
dropping memory frequency from 4000 -> 3800
dropping P cores from x53/x54 -> x50 and E cores from x40 -> x37
higher SA voltage
lower SA voltage
more voltage offset to vf#1-4
more voltage offset to vf#6-11
tried to limit highest 5400Mhz frequency only to 2 best cores

I have tried "optimized defaults" twice. Those were only ~2h idle sessions, but no idle crash then. Still have to test overnight to verify this stability.

OC settings are stable for multiple hours gaming, over 1h Prime small, TM5 for hours, CB23, etc...
I ended to LL#2 as LL#4 looked like unstable for light loads ( LL#4 not enough Vdroop). Maybe LL2# there is still not enough Vdroop for idle?

I'm calibrating Loadline values with Prime95 small AVX @4800Mhz.
Here is what I found for Vdroop, when comparing Prime vs Fortnite @4800Mhz: 

*LL #*​*Delta mV*​4​51​3​57​2​90​1​99​


Here are my current settings voltages / loadline:


----------



## Falkentyne

Xiph said:


> I'm struggling with idle reboots. I have Strix-A + 12700k.
> Reboot might happen after 15min - 5h idling without any cpu heavy apps open. It is like power cut, so nothing in event viewer, except "non healthy boot" log event.
> 
> I have tried these, but always idle reboot at some point:
> 
> auto loadline level + impedances
> auto all memory settings
> dropping memory frequency from 4000 -> 3800
> dropping P cores from x53/x54 -> x50 and E cores from x40 -> x37
> higher SA voltage
> lower SA voltage
> more voltage offset to vf#1-4
> more voltage offset to vf#6-11
> tried to limit highest 5400Mhz frequency only to 2 best cores
> 
> I have tried "optimized defaults" twice. Those were only ~2h idle sessions, but no idle crash then. Still have to test overnight to verify this stability.
> 
> OC settings are stable for multiple hours gaming, over 1h Prime small, TM5 for hours, CB23, etc...
> I ended to LL#2 as LL#4 looked like unstable for light loads ( LL#4 not enough Vdroop). Maybe LL2# there is still not enough Vdroop for idle?
> 
> I'm calibrating Loadline values with Prime95 small AVX @4800Mhz.
> Here is what I found for Vdroop, when comparing Prime vs Fortnite @4800Mhz:
> 
> *LL #*​*Delta mV*​4​51​3​57​2​95​1​212​
> 
> 
> Here are my current settings voltages / loadline:
> View attachment 2537806


Hard freeze/lockup: low load voltages are too low. Possibly any of the cores are crashing.
Hard lockup with no BSOD followed by a complete abnormally long power off and on sequence--E cores crashed, usually caused by a 0x124 uncorrectable WHEA error that triggered a complete hardware reset. Usually it's the E cores that cause this. the P cores will just either BSOD or just complete freeze.
A too low AC Loadline value has been known to trigger this, at load voltages that would normally be stable. May be related to the E cores having a different VID table than the p cores, even though the same vcore rail powers them. I haven't seen such behavior with the E cores disabled.


----------



## Xiph

Falkentyne said:


> Hard freeze/lockup: low load voltages are too low. Possibly any of the cores are crashing.
> Hard lockup with no BSOD followed by a complete abnormally long power off and on sequence--E cores crashed, usually caused by a 0x124 uncorrectable WHEA error that triggered a complete hardware reset. Usually it's the E cores that cause this. the P cores will just either BSOD or just complete freeze.
> A too low AC Loadline value has been known to trigger this, at load voltages that would normally be stable. May be related to the E cores having a different VID table than the p cores, even though the same vcore rail powers them. I haven't seen such behavior with the E cores disabled.


Thanks for ideas and information.

Made now some further tests:

Loadline level #2 -> #1 with new Prime 1h stable AC/DC values. Took over 1 hour until idle reboot happened. So my theory that loadline level would help goes there.
Next I disabled all E-cores. Took only 5 minute to idle reboot. So this is not E core stability problem
Next I removed all but Vf#11 offsets and increased Vf#11 offset from 0.06->0.1 and adaptive voltage from 1.314 -> 1.354. Took only 10 minutes idling for reboot.

Now I'm back Loadline level #2 and increased AC from 0.79 ohms to 0.9 ohms. Have to wait at least 1 hour idling, but last time when I increased +0.05 ohms, it didn't help idle stability and finally rebooted.
EDIT: 50 minutes and it idle rebooted again


----------



## RobertoSampaio

BattlePhenom said:


> Got into the 30K club with an SP83 chip and 360 aio.
> P-cores 54,54,53,53,52,52,52,52 E-cores 41 Ring 42 Vcore 1.39
> Core 7 peaks at 88c. It's looking 24/7 stable.
> 
> View attachment 2537791
> 
> View attachment 2537792


Try 55x2 - 54x4 - 53x6 - 52x8 !


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Direct die is here but not ready for public yet.


----------



## jomama22

Xiph said:


> Thanks for ideas and information.
> 
> Made now some further tests:
> 
> Loadline level #2 -> #1 with new Prime 1h stable AC/DC values. Took over 1 hour until idle reboot happened. So my theory that loadline level would help goes there.
> Next I disabled all E-cores. Took only 5 minute to idle reboot. So this is not E core stability problem
> Next I removed all but Vf#11 offsets and increased Vf#11 offset from 0.06->0.1 and adaptive voltage from 1.314 -> 1.354. Took only 10 minutes idling for reboot.
> 
> Now I'm back Loadline level #2 and increased AC from 0.79 ohms to 0.9 ohms. Have to wait at least 1 hour idling, but last time when I increased +0.05 ohms, it didn't help idle stability and finally rebooted.
> EDIT: 50 minutes and it idle rebooted again


Do this. Just set c-state minimum to C6 or C8 and see what happens. Had this happen at stock on 3 different 12900k's. I use C6 personally. Tvboc and such all still work.

I genuinely think it's similar to amd's low power state transition issue.


----------



## jomama22

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Direct die is here but not ready for public yet.
> 
> View attachment 2537841


Have you seen any issues with the single taller cap at the bottom of the interposer that derbaur point out during his delid? Guessing that may be the reason for your smaller block.


----------



## LionAlonso

Xiph said:


> Thanks for ideas and information.
> 
> Made now some further tests:
> 
> Loadline level #2 -> #1 with new Prime 1h stable AC/DC values. Took over 1 hour until idle reboot happened. So my theory that loadline level would help goes there.
> Next I disabled all E-cores. Took only 5 minute to idle reboot. So this is not E core stability problem
> Next I removed all but Vf#11 offsets and increased Vf#11 offset from 0.06->0.1 and adaptive voltage from 1.314 -> 1.354. Took only 10 minutes idling for reboot.
> 
> Now I'm back Loadline level #2 and increased AC from 0.79 ohms to 0.9 ohms. Have to wait at least 1 hour idling, but last time when I increased +0.05 ohms, it didn't help idle stability and finally rebooted.
> EDIT: 50 minutes and it idle rebooted again


Have you tested different PSU?


----------



## morph.

RobertoSampaio said:


> Q: This also leads me to another question with 1, 2 or 3 active cores why won't the temperature threshold be higher since there is potentially more thermal headroom to hold the higher clock longer?
> A: because we are talking about 5.7GHz... LOL. Its not easy to run 57x with high temps... You will need much more voltage and this become a snow ball... More voltage, more temp.
> 
> Q: Saw some of your previous screenshots that showed I think like 49. So when 3 active cores are running the temp threshold is even lower so holding on to that peak boost becomes much more unlikely.
> A: That's the idea... 57x will be used for a very light loads... If you have a mid-load probably you will run 55x or 56x... And if the load increases, probably 54x or 55x.
> 
> Q: One more thing what is your set per core usage ratio I assume that's the baseline plus the OCTVB?
> A: First I test the full load freq.... I found P51x/E40x is my best... So I know my last "By Core" line shall be 51x.... So I know my "by core" will be finished with 51x8
> Now I'll test the highest frequency I can hit with 3 cores (once I need the same voltage for 1 or for 3 cores, I use to set the max freq. for 3 cores).
> I decide the max VID I'll admit for this... and set this value to "IA VR Voltage Limit". I start with 1500mv.
> So now I start to rise freq and adaptive voltage until I see the cores are hitting the 1500mv VID. At this point, I start to lower Adaptive until I'm stable.
> 
> And this is the best game I ever played... LOL.
> Rise freq, rise voltage, lower voltage, change AC_LL, change the limit, change the LLC, select best cores, test "per core adaptive voltage", Add some cores on intermediary freq., change the OCTVB temps, test, test, test...
> 
> 
> I started that in September and hit 58x in October. At November I had 2 cores running at 59x and all hitting 58x...
> I'm proud I can say I tested all Asus's CPU features like OCTVB, load lines, adaptive voltages, By core, Voltage limits, etc..
> All this before the official release date for Intel's Alder Lake CPU and the Asus MBs. And I can say, no doubt, Asus have the best MB for OCing. All I asked Asus, they did.
> 
> I'll give you a spoiler... Next Bios will have a very nice feature for loadlines !!!!


Managed to go a bit better with CPU-Z now.


----------



## LionAlonso

morph. said:


> Managed to go a bit better with CPU-Z now.
> View attachment 2537847


Your effective clocks stretch.
U should have like 5.50 minimum effective for 5,6 clock speed at single core.
Try to apply more voltage or tune it a bit more.
Also cpuz score reflects that, that score is for 5.3 sc more or less.


----------



## morph.

LionAlonso said:


> Your effective clocks stretch.
> U should have like 5.50 minimum effective for 5,6 clock speed at single core.
> Try to apply more voltage or tune it a bit more.
> Also cpuz score reflects that, that score is for 5.3 sc more or less.


yeah that's correct with OCTVB its clocking down to 5.3 due to temp thresholds ill slowly raise the temp a/ temp b limits next few days which should give it another bin or two higher.


----------



## BattlePhenom

RobertoSampaio said:


> Try 55x2 - 54x4 - 53x6 - 52x8 !


That doesn't sound like a bad idea. I think I should be able to get away with bumping things up a bit w/o touching the voltage. Might try 43 on the ring and mess with memory speeds/timings. I tried 4133 cl 17 in gear 1 w/ SA of 1.42, but it crashed after a while.


----------



## Relent

Guys, I crash BSOD on Shadow of the Tomb Raider bench, they are not consisten crashes and it can run fine for 6 times in a row, is just something to happens from time to time.

Finding the problem it might be difficult using adaptive voltage because CPus wont stay at fixed 5.4ghz 

54x8
Adaptive Voltage 1.4580v LLC5


----------



## LionAlonso

Relent said:


> Guys, I crash BSOD on Shadow of the Tomb Raider bench, they are not consisten crashes and it can run fine for 6 times in a row, is just something to happens from time to time.
> 
> Finding the problem it might be difficult using adaptive voltage because CPus wont stay at fixed 5.4ghz
> 
> 54x8
> Adaptive Voltage 1.4580v LLC5


Do u crash at full load part or in light load and high boost?


----------



## Relent

LionAlonso said:


> Do u crash at full load part or in light load and high boost?


I dont know , that is very difficult to measure, sometime it can take 7 or 8 complete runs to have a crash


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Relent said:


> I dont know , that is very difficult to measure, sometime it can take 7 or 8 complete runs to have a crash


Try to pass geekbench and RealBench. I think you have the "load to idle to load" instability.


----------



## asdkj1740

the gigabyte new bios significantly reduces the auto vcore (~0.05v).


----------



## Relent

RobertoSampaio said:


> Try to pass geekbench and RealBench. I think you have the "load to idle to load" instability.


thanks, will do!


----------



## Exilon

Anyone else dealing with long idle restarts? I don't even get a BSOD, the PC just powers off and restarts if I leave it at the login screen for too long or idle overnight.

I was running 52x (1-2c) 51x (3-8c) but now I'm trying 51x (1-8c) to see if it's the 52x multiplier causing the issue.


----------



## sugi0lover

My SP got up from 103 to 104 after flashing to bios 0025. lol

















This is my friend's SP103 12900K to SP 112 after flashing to Bios 0015. 
He got his SP103 back after flashing to Bios 0025.


----------



## Relent

RobertoSampaio said:


> Try to pass geekbench and RealBench. I think you have the "load to idle to load" instability.


I couldnt! 



















































54x8 (I only game)
Adaptive Vcore 1.458

My guess is that I need to add voltage to thew V/F points?


----------



## shamino1978

Imo , the idle restarts is 90% due to voltage optimization enabled + hi light boost ratio + aggressive undervolting , just because it passes load with the lower voltage. Either disable voltage optimization and retune voltage or increase voltage.


----------



## cptclutch

Dialing in my 12700k now, stock MSI LLC at 1.38v its dropping to 1.26v under load in OCCT small. 54x2, 53x4, 52x6, 51x8. 4000mhz 18/18/18/34. Other than the Vcore the only other voltage I set was the DRAM at 1.5 and SA at 1.38. Is there anything I should focus on going forward? Seems like its doing pretty well so far. Was going to work on the timings a bit once I got the CPU OC settled.

Just got 3rd in Time Spy with the 12700k/3080 Ti. These chips are really impressive.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> My SP got up from 103 to 104 after flashing to bios 0025. lol
> View attachment 2537928
> 
> View attachment 2537929
> 
> 
> This is my friend's SP103 12900K to SP 112 after flashing to Bios 0015.
> He got his SP103 back after flashing to Bios 0025.
> View attachment 2537932


What BIOS version do you recommend? 0808 or something else?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> What BIOS version do you recommend? 0808 or something else?


I like those voltage unlocked version. I am currently using 0025.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> I like those voltage unlocked version. I am currently using 0025.


Do you have a link by any chance?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Do you have a link by any chance?


Oops. It's typo. 0021
You can check this page out.








[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


Okay so it ended up being the motherboard! Both ram sticks now work and i can also use XMP. Now do i keep the RMA Ram set that i payed for in advance and go 64GB lol i mean i just use it for gaming. If it's Samsung or Hynx RAM, you can make a killing scalping it on ebay and just keep 32 GB...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> Oops. It's typo. 0021
> You can check this page out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread
> 
> 
> Okay so it ended up being the motherboard! Both ram sticks now work and i can also use XMP. Now do i keep the RMA Ram set that i payed for in advance and go 64GB lol i mean i just use it for gaming. If it's Samsung or Hynx RAM, you can make a killing scalping it on ebay and just keep 32 GB...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Thanks my friend


----------



## Xiph

Exilon said:


> Anyone else dealing with long idle restarts? I don't even get a BSOD, the PC just powers off and restarts if I leave it at the login screen for too long or idle overnight.
> 
> I was running 52x (1-2c) 51x (3-8c) but now I'm trying 51x (1-8c) to see if it's the 52x multiplier causing the issue.


See my posts 2 pages back. I have wasted huge amount of time, when troubleshooting the idle restart problem.

And finally today (after maybe 10 days of testing to solve this) I might have breakthrough in my case: It's user error...

I had saved bios profile time ago. Then upgraded bios to newer version. Then I have loaded that old profile version and later saved new different profiles, which all are still sourced from that old profile. Usually I don't do this (load old profile to new bios), but this time I did and it was mistake! I have now started from "Load optimized defaults" and then entered all of those ~150 changes I need manually. It's running on same settings than before, but it's no more idle restarting.

Lessons to learn: Never use old profiles with new bios. It may create unsolvable hidden problems.

Also see post #2,778 from @jomama22. I tried to limit C-States to C6 and then to C4. Didn't help me, but this might help with some cases if it's idle restarting with pure stock settings.


----------



## cptclutch

Having a strange issue. Was testing and running well previously with my load Vcore was dropping to around 1.28v during OCCT small and everything was looking stable. After messing around with some other settings trying to get a few cores to 55 everything has seemingly fallen apart. The auto LCC isn't dropping the Vcore at all now and whatever I try to set manual just results in crashes were I was stable previously.

Is there any way I could have already damaged this CPU with something like a 1.38 SA voltage? Trying to revert everything back to what I had previously but seems like something is very off now and I have no idea what happened.

Edit:
So I was wrong and it seems like it's down to specific loads. OCCT small drops to 1.24v under load while CPU-Z stress keeps it at around 1.39v. I assume this is down to the AVX workloads?

Also has anyone noticed instability after turning on resizable bar? As soon I turned it on with the MSI PRO A D4 I started getting blue screens and now that its off it seems to have corrected.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I posted this in my guide thread, and I'd like to share here too...

My new BIOS 0811 settings:

By Core:
P - 57x3 - 55x6 - 53x8 (+2 OCTVB)
E - 42x3 - 41x6 - 40x8

VRM:
LLC = 1
AC_LL = 0.6
DC_LL = 1.75

Limits:
VR Volt Limit = 1540mv
Package temp limit = 90ºC

Voltages:
By Core Specific Adaptive voltage.









V/F curve offsets:

















Manual OCTVB:

















Voltage Predict:









Running R23 with a temp limit of 90ºC









Vcore running Idle:

















BFV - FPS limit 120







Voltage Tool:








Dropbox - File Deleted


Dropbox is a free service that lets you bring your photos, docs, and videos anywhere and share them easily. Never email yourself a file again!




www.dropbox.com






EDITED:

Now Testing BF-V @ P-53x/E41x


----------



## penguin1717

Hi Shamino I have Asus z690 TUF D4 and when I first flash any new bios my Auto voltage at 4.9x in bios is around 1.252 volts and when I reboot changing nothing my voltage roses to 1.305 volts. Is there a bug in bios reading default VID?


----------



## 2500k_2

Intel Core i9-12900KS pre-binned CPU with 5.2 GHz all-core frequency allegedly in the works - VideoCardz.com


Intel Core i9-12900KS, a direct response to AMD Ryzen with 3D V-Cache? Intel is preparing a new SKU offering the best performance out of all Alder Lake CPUs. Our sources claim that a new processor called Intel Core i9-12900KS is now being tested by board partners. It is basically a pre-binned...




videocardz.com




Good news for those who don't want to play the silicone lottery.
Gold foil xD


----------



## warbucks

BattlePhenom said:


> Got into the 30K club with an SP83 chip and 360 aio.
> P-cores 54,54,53,53,52,52,52,52 E-cores 41 Ring 42 Vcore 1.39
> Core 7 peaks at 88c. It's looking 24/7 stable.
> 
> View attachment 2537791
> 
> View attachment 2537792


What Vcore, VCCSA, VDDQ?


----------



## Ichirou

2500k_2 said:


> Intel Core i9-12900KS pre-binned CPU with 5.2 GHz all-core frequency allegedly in the works - VideoCardz.com
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900KS, a direct response to AMD Ryzen with 3D V-Cache? Intel is preparing a new SKU offering the best performance out of all Alder Lake CPUs. Our sources claim that a new processor called Intel Core i9-12900KS is now being tested by board partners. It is basically a pre-binned...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> videocardz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good news for those who don't want to play the silicone lottery.
> Gold foil xD


Huh. I wasn't aware that most 12900Ks cap off at around 4.8-4.9 GHz all-core. I was under the impression that most could already do 5.1-5.2 GHz all-core, as long as you're willing to pump enough Vcore. I suppose what's important is to know what kind of Vcore it requires to actually push 5.2 GHz all-core with this new prebinned chip.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Ichirou said:


> Huh. I wasn't aware that most 12900Ks cap off at around 4.8-4.9 GHz all-core. I was under the impression that most could already do 5.1-5.2 GHz all-core, as long as you're willing to pump enough Vcore. I suppose what's important is to know what kind of Vcore it requires to actually push 5.2 GHz all-core with this new prebinned chip.


Guaranteed 5.2 sounds like SP100+. I call BS unless there is a new stepping.


----------



## Exilon

shamino1978 said:


> Imo , the idle restarts is 90% due to voltage optimization enabled + hi light boost ratio + aggressive undervolting , just because it passes load with the lower voltage. Either disable voltage optimization and retune voltage or increase voltage.


Yeah, removing the 52x ratio seems to have stopped it. I tried raising AC_LL and moving back to LL3 to hit 52x but it didn't help much.

Now trying higher AC with LLC4.



Xiph said:


> Lessons to learn: Never use old profiles with new bios. It may create unsolvable hidden problems.


I tried this and it seems to have changed some Cstate settings behind the scenes. With identical power settings, the CPU no longer clocks down to 400Mhz


----------



## Falkentyne

geriatricpollywog said:


> Guaranteed 5.2 sounds like SP100+. I call BS unless there is a new stepping.


Of course it's a new a revision. The S-spec should change, but stepping is still NDA until announcement.
Yes it is SP 100+ "in overclock potential". This has been discussed in inner circles already. No it's not BS. Day one preorder for me.


----------



## asdkj1740

geriatricpollywog said:


> Guaranteed 5.2 sounds like SP100+. I call BS unless there is a new stepping.


if we can check the sp...why intel cant.. 
i guess 12900ks with >100 sp could be cooled by air cooler, lol.


----------



## Falkentyne

BTW in the new 0811 Shamino Bios, the AVX 256 instructions is capped at x51 multiplier again at x52 multiplier (idk about higher as I instant hardlock/BSOD at any higher than x52)
(Stockfish (@shamino1978 loves trolling me by calling this smallfish or bonefish), Prime95, etc). To fix this and get your x52 multiplier back, set the AVX512 offset to -1 in the BIOS (this is a new option), which restores the AVX256 instructions fixed offset workaround for >x51 multiplier.


----------



## cstkl1

i9-12900k - SP93
Asus MZ690 Apex - Bios 0806
2x16gb G.Skill 6600 28-37-37-28 1T 280 @1.65
SA|MC|txvddq = 0.9|1.55|1.55


----------



## domdtxdissar

If anyone have to balls needed 🤣 


domdtxdissar said:


> I have a feeling Alder Lake with all e-cores disabled and avx512 enabled on the p-cores will smoke (literally ) this benchmark, anyone dare to test this ?


----------



## Luggage

domdtxdissar said:


> If anyone have to balls needed 🤣


The #1 hwbot 2.5b with benchmark 8core 12900 is only running 5.1… cmon you can smoke this 






y-cruncher - Pi-2.5b overclocking records @ HWBOT


Overclocking records




hwbot.org


----------



## 2500k_2

cstkl1 said:


> i9-12900k - SP93
> Asus MZ690 Apex - Bios 0806
> 2x16gb G.Skill 6600 28-37-37-28 1T 280 @1.65
> SA|MC|txvddq = 0.9|1.55|1.55


1.65 dram vdd on bios or hw info?


----------



## cstkl1

2500k_2 said:


> 1.65 dram vdd on bios or hw info?


bios vdd
hwinfo
1st stick will be fluxing 1.6-1.62
2nd stick is 1.65

both diff pmic, one is secured/another unsecured. one rgb another not. both diff xmp voltage. so just got to work with this.


----------



## Malinkadink

12700k here, running into strange issue, OCCT and P95 both give me errors when running at stock clocks, I disabled E cores as well to see if that was an issue but same results. I'm running DDR4 xmp 3200 had to give it 1.12v on SA to not get any errors using TM5 anta777 for hours so I don't think its RAM related, I used this ram in a previous build for years without issue either. Could it just be a defective chip?

Edit: Looks like it needed even more on the SA gave it 1.2v just for good measure and no more errors with stock clocks, pretty bad chip IMC in my chip if i do say so myself, that or Asus is really being conservative with voltage for SA, i forget what the stock SA was on my z270 but I reckon it was a little above 1.0v whereas this strix board is not even giving that on auto.


----------



## Exilon

Xiph said:


> I have now started from "Load optimized defaults" and then entered all of those ~150 changes I need manually. It's running on same settings than before, but it's no more idle restarting.


Ok, so this seems to have fixed the restarts. The difference seems to be some C-state setting that isn't accessible through the GUI? I still haven't seen 400MHz P-cores or 500MHz E-cores for that matter and lowest package power is 2W higher than before.


----------



## Arni90

Luggage said:


> The #1 hwbot 2.5b with benchmark 8core 12900 is only running 5.1… cmon you can smoke this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> y-cruncher - Pi-2.5b overclocking records @ HWBOT
> 
> 
> Overclocking records
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hwbot.org


You're starting at 6th place for some reason?

I managed 62 s with ****ty Micron DDR5: Arni90`s y-cruncher - Pi-2.5b score: 1min 2sec 114ms with a Core i9 12900K (8P)


----------



## Luggage

Arni90 said:


> You're starting at 6th place for some reason?
> 
> I managed 62 s with ****ty Micron DDR5: Arni90`s y-cruncher - Pi-2.5b score: 1min 2sec 114ms with a Core i9 12900K (8P)


Ugh, didn’t see that, just looked up from my result… not a fan of how the lists are paged if you come from a result.


----------



## Exilon

Exilon said:


> Ok, so this seems to have fixed the restarts. The difference seems to be some C-state setting that isn't accessible through the GUI? I still haven't seen 400MHz P-cores or 500MHz E-cores for that matter and lowest package power is 2W higher than before.


Bah, nevermind. It just took longer and colder to restart without the deeper idle state. Time to up the voltages


----------



## Xiph

Exilon said:


> Bah, nevermind. It just took longer and colder to restart without the deeper idle state. Time to up the voltages


Actually same for me. It just took longer time until it happened again. Did you try Shamino’s proposal to disable voltage optimizations? I know that I had enabled it, so it may help. Personally can’t test until monday.


----------



## Exilon

Xiph said:


> Actually same for me. It just took longer time until it happened again. Did you try Shamino’s proposal to disable voltage optimizations? I know that I had enabled it, so it may help. Personally can’t test until monday.


I'm just adding a 20mV offset across the VF curve


----------



## cptclutch

Is it safe to run SA voltage auto? I know with 10th gen SA was pretty sensitive in terms of damaging the IMC so I’m just a bit paranoid. 
Also in terms of vcore with per core offset is it ok to run it higher into the 1.4 range as it won’t be at that when all the cores are being hit hard? Just trying to gauge where the safety limits are in terms of degradation, but I know it’s early days.


----------



## LionAlonso

cptclutch said:


> Is it safe to run SA voltage auto? I know with 10th gen SA was pretty sensitive in terms of damaging the IMC so I’m just a bit paranoid.
> Also in terms of vcore with per core offset is it ok to run it higher into the 1.4 range as it won’t be at that when all the cores are being hit hard? Just trying to gauge where the safety limits are in terms of degradation, but I know it’s early days.


By that time u probably would have the 13900k or 14900k
It doesnt really matter unless y do crazy things


----------



## dante`afk

My last 2 until KS release


----------



## Falkentyne

cptclutch said:


> Is it safe to run SA voltage auto? I know with 10th gen SA was pretty sensitive in terms of damaging the IMC so I’m just a bit paranoid.
> Also in terms of vcore with per core offset is it ok to run it higher into the 1.4 range as it won’t be at that when all the cores are being hit hard? Just trying to gauge where the safety limits are in terms of degradation, but I know it’s early days.


Is this DDR5 or DDR4?
On DDR5 you don't want a high system agent anyway. Some users have found increasing errors when they go past 1.25 VCCSA and some have found more stability reducing it to 1.05 or even 0.90v under some setups! If you yeeted your SA and are unstable on DDR5, try reducing it before throwing up the surrender flag. @dante`afk just did that. @cstkl1 had more stability on his QS at 0.9v SA than 1.2v (retail chip was different). For DDR4 you probably need more.


----------



## cptclutch

Falkentyne said:


> Is this DDR5 or DDR4?
> On DDR5 you don't want a high system agent anyway. Some users have found increasing errors when they go past 1.25 VCCSA and some have found more stability reducing it to 1.05 or even 0.90v under some setups! If you yeeted your SA and are unstable on DDR5, try reducing it before throwing up the surrender flag. @dante`afk just did that. @cstkl1 had more stability on his QS at 0.9v SA than 1.2v (retail chip was different). For DDR4 you probably need more.


Currently running DDR4 4000mhz 18/18/18/34.


----------



## Xiph

Exilon said:


> I'm just adding a 20mV offset across the VF curve


Lift from another thread: ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...

I'm using 500 VRM switching frequency and seems that idle restart problem is mostly with Strix A boards. 

Earlier I didn't find solution by rising voltages. Also with full stock settings, my system was idle stable and after I just entered my loadline and digivrm settings, it started to reboot. Of course I was expecting it was from loadline settings...


----------



## Znerk

My MSI z690 seems to auto increase the voltage no matter what I do in terms of UV. I try to put a offset VF curve voltage to get similar results like other users, but it doesn’t seem to work properly. I can apply a -0.100 or a -0.300 on x48 and get the exact same results. It does go a little down, but 0.300 and 0.100 is the exact same results. Any tips? Both beta and stable bios. My wattage in cinebench r23 with -0.300 is still over 200w which is much higher than people who use -0.065. For example on Reddit someone went down to 185w with -0.065 at the 48x. Perhaps I just need to wait for a new bios update.


----------



## ddev

Hey guys, running Asus d4 + 12900kf and have terrible issue that i still cant resolve, around the month, using different bios and settings.
So my settings: 
[email protected]/4E/4.3R SP87 360aio latest bios/win11 - LLC3, acdc 0.25/1.1, cpu voltage auto, VRM settings extreme and max out, voltage optimization off, c-state auto.
[email protected] - 1.40 sa, 1.4vq, 1.55v dram
Ram seems stable, was testing tm5 with configs a lot. Also i tried a lot of linx/linpack/aida/intelextreme/realbench and many other software that was fully stable. Everything is ok (mostly gaming and video encoding) but when i use avx2 latest prime smallfft(medium and high ffts tests are fine) or latest occt with same settings, im getting bluescreen in few seconds with watchdog timeout, meant not enough voltage. I tried to set stock ring and e cores, no matter, tried vrm settings and tried to change acdc to 0,3/0.8 and lower, making min voltage higher. One thing that i find helpfull is to set acdc auto and to set higher llc like 5, making 300w with avx 2 on stock but it works. My min voltage is around 1.16, seems like avx 2 smallffts needs around 1.28. I read a lot of posts here about prime testing and its all mostly fine here so idk whats im doing wrong. All tips and ideas to make my system work are welcome!


----------



## ddev

Znerk said:


> My MSI z690 seems to auto increase the voltage no matter what I do in terms of UV. I try to put a offset VF curve voltage to get similar results like other users, but it doesn’t seem to work properly. I can apply a -0.100 or a -0.300 on x48 and get the exact same results. It does go a little down, but 0.300 and 0.100 is the exact same results. Any tips? Both beta and stable bios. My wattage in cinebench r23 with -0.300 is still over 200w which is much higher than people who use -0.065. For example on Reddit someone went down to 185w with -0.065 at the 48x. Perhaps I just need to wait for a new bios update.


Same here, manual voltage is not working properly, i tried to set offset with manual settings and i get simply random voltage that cant be with my settings, also bluescreens all the time with heavy workload. Only thing helps me is acdc manual settings, but still i cant manage settings to get avx2 smallfft stable.


----------



## lolhaxz

ddev said:


> Hey guys, running Asus d4 + 12900kf and have terrible issue that i still cant resolve, around the month, using different bios and settings.
> So my settings:
> [email protected]/4E/4.3R SP87 360aio latest bios/win11 - LLC3, acdc 0.25/1.1, cpu voltage auto, VRM settings extreme and max out, voltage optimization off, c-state auto.
> [email protected] - 1.40 sa, 1.4vq, 1.55v dram
> Ram seems stable, was testing tm5 with configs a lot. Also i tried a lot of linx/linpack/aida/intelextreme/realbench and many other software that was fully stable. Everything is ok (mostly gaming and video encoding) but when i use avx2 latest prime smallfft(medium and high ffts tests are fine) or latest occt with same settings, im getting bluescreen in few seconds with watchdog timeout, meant not enough voltage. I tried to set stock ring and e cores, no matter, tried vrm settings and tried to change acdc to 0,3/0.8 and lower, making min voltage higher. One thing that i find helpfull is to set acdc auto and to set higher llc like 5, making 300w with avx 2 on stock but it works. My min voltage is around 1.16, seems like avx 2 smallffts needs around 1.28. I read a lot of posts here about prime testing and its all mostly fine here so idk whats im doing wrong. All tips and ideas to make my system work are welcome!


4.3 Ring is probably the problem.

Try Cinebench R15 - atleast 10 mins of looping, it'll probably crashing within a few mins tho.


----------



## ddev

lolhaxz said:


> 4.3 Ring is probably the problem.
> 
> Try Cinebench R15 - atleast 10 mins of looping, it'll probably crashing within a few mins tho.


I tried to set ring auto, getting same bluescreens.


----------



## Falkentyne

Znerk said:


> My MSI z690 seems to auto increase the voltage no matter what I do in terms of UV. I try to put a offset VF curve voltage to get similar results like other users, but it doesn’t seem to work properly. I can apply a -0.100 or a -0.300 on x48 and get the exact same results. It does go a little down, but 0.300 and 0.100 is the exact same results. Any tips? Both beta and stable bios. My wattage in cinebench r23 with -0.300 is still over 200w which is much higher than people who use -0.065. For example on Reddit someone went down to 185w with -0.065 at the 48x. Perhaps I just need to wait for a new bios update.


Are you sure you are posting the correct measurements? There's no way in hell you are going to set a V/F curve down by -0.300v!!! That's a 300mv drop. Extremely unrealistic.
When you drop a single v/f point down (keeping in mind that IIRC, any single v/f point has to be equal to or higher in final "raw" voltage than the v/f point below it (someone can correct me if I'm wrong there), eventually you run into the cache's own V/F curve, which you can't change. If either the core or cache ratio has a higher internal v/f at a certain frequency, the higher v/f always wins.
Sometimes you can go lower by reducing the v/f points below the point you're trying to change, but after you run into the ring's own VID, you need to lower the ring clock to proceed.

Please don't confuse -300v with -30mv. 30mv is -0.030v, not -0.30. -.3v is -0.300v or _300mv_. Make sure you are using the correct values.


----------



## bscool

@ddev I had mem oc 4266c16 2x16 on Striix d4 that passed multiple memory test but crashed in y cruncher in seconds. Try lowing memory oc to 4000c15 or 3886 just to test. If no more blue screen, you know mem oc is the issue. I had to lower mine down to 4133c15 to be stable in y cruncher.


----------



## Znerk

Falkentyne said:


> Are you sure you are posting the correct measurements? There's no way in hell you are going to set a V/F curve down by -0.300v!!! That's a 300mv drop. Extremely unrealistic.
> When you drop a single v/f point down (keeping in mind that IIRC, any single v/f point has to be equal to or higher in final "raw" voltage than the v/f point below it (someone can correct me if I'm wrong there), eventually you run into the cache's own V/F curve, which you can't change. If either the core or cache ratio has a higher internal v/f at a certain frequency, the higher v/f always wins.
> Sometimes you can go lower by reducing the v/f points below the point you're trying to change, but after you run into the ring's own VID, you need to lower the ring clock to proceed.
> 
> Please don't confuse -300v with -30mv. 30mv is -0.030v, not -0.30. -.3v is -0.300v or _300mv_. Make sure you are using the correct values.


Yes I am doing the exact same as here Intel Core i9-12900K FAQ – Cooler, Overclocking and More (last section about undervolt)

it has an affect, but as I am saying I’m not getting 0.300 even though I input 0.300. Something else is boosting the Volt. Tested everything, even in XTU.


----------



## ddev

bscool said:


> @ddev I had mem oc 4266c16 2x16 on Striix d4 that passed multiple memory test but crashed in y cruncher in seconds. Try lowing memory oc to 4000c15 or 3886 just to test. If not more blue screen you know mem oc is the issue. I had to lower mine down to 4133c15 to be stable in y cruncher.


Will try but what settings should i use there? i found lot of options for test.


----------



## LionAlonso

ddev said:


> Hey guys, running Asus d4 + 12900kf and have terrible issue that i still cant resolve, around the month, using different bios and settings.
> So my settings:
> [email protected]/4E/4.3R SP87 360aio latest bios/win11 - LLC3, acdc 0.25/1.1, cpu voltage auto, VRM settings extreme and max out, voltage optimization off, c-state auto.
> [email protected] - 1.40 sa, 1.4vq, 1.55v dram
> Ram seems stable, was testing tm5 with configs a lot. Also i tried a lot of linx/linpack/aida/intelextreme/realbench and many other software that was fully stable. Everything is ok (mostly gaming and video encoding) but when i use avx2 latest prime smallfft(medium and high ffts tests are fine) or latest occt with same settings, im getting bluescreen in few seconds with watchdog timeout, meant not enough voltage. I tried to set stock ring and e cores, no matter, tried vrm settings and tried to change acdc to 0,3/0.8 and lower, making min voltage higher. One thing that i find helpfull is to set acdc auto and to set higher llc like 5, making 300w with avx 2 on stock but it works. My min voltage is around 1.16, seems like avx 2 smallffts needs around 1.28. I read a lot of posts here about prime testing and its all mostly fine here so idk whats im doing wrong. All tips and ideas to make my system work are welcome!


Its normal to need more voltage for occt small avx extreme or prime.
Whats your vid when running cb23 at 5.0ghz?
And your vcore?
i also needed to bump it to pass that programs without bluescreens but may not be neccesary for a daily OC.


----------



## lolhaxz

LionAlonso said:


> Its normal to need more voltage for occt small avx extreme or prime.
> Whats your vid when running cb23 at 5.0ghz?
> And your vcore?
> i also needed to bump it to pass that programs without bluescreens but may not be neccesary for a daily OC.


Alot of the screenshots you see here in this thread are not at all stable - but perhaps stable for their use-case. Lots of stability testing programs easily require +50mv for 30+ minutes of stability verses.. a few minutes passes fine.

Point being, don't read too much into it really - find the point its stable for your application, or find the point it's stable in stability tests. You may need to back things like cache or E-Cores several ratios back for real stability - these in particular are notorious for having a large "working" but not stable window.

I personally don't tune for my use-case, I tune for stability because inevitably edge cases come along and catch you out anyway.


----------



## bscool

ddev said:


> Will try but what settings should i use there? i found lot of options for test.


I use the benchmate BenchMate version as portable app. pi2.5b



https://d1ebmxcfh8bf9c.cloudfront.net/u430252/image_id_2605700.jpg


----------



## Arni90

dante`afk said:


> My last 2 until KS release


I have some serious doubts about that 5.2 GHz rumour. Even the best samples posted here see very high voltage requirements for 5.2 GHz compared to 5.1 GHz, and I've yet to see anything more stressful than Cinebench being run at these frequencies. If Intel aims to sell these chips to consumers, they can't crash even if running Linpack or Prime95 with something like an NH-U12S. Unless it's more like 5.2 GHz with TVB, and 5.0 GHz beyond 70C.


----------



## Falkentyne

Arni90 said:


> I have some serious doubts about that 5.2 GHz rumour. Even the best samples posted here see very high voltage requirements for 5.2 GHz compared to 5.1 GHz, and I've yet to see anything more stressful than Cinebench being run at these frequencies. If Intel aims to sell these chips to consumers, they can't crash even if running Linpack or Prime95 with something like an NH-U12S. Unless it's more like 5.2 GHz with TVB, and 5.0 GHz beyond 70C.


Huh? Multiple people have posted Stockfish stable tests here at 5.2 ghz, and Stockfish requires at least 40mv more load vcore to pass than Cinebench R23. I can loop R23 for days at 1.243v load @ 5.2 ghz but Stockfish requires 1.270v. and that's 100C.

AIDA64 stress FPU doesn't heat up the cores as much as Stockfish. And if you can pass Stockfish, you can pass the OCCT AVX large and SSE Small tests easily (I have to check about AVX small).

Prime95 30.7 b9 small FFT AVX (don't even get me started about FMA3) runs miles hotter than even stockfish and will pretty much hard lock you/bsod instantly if you are just barely stockfish 30 min stable (assuming you can actually cool that test, prime95 small AVX requires probably 30+ more mv to pass than Stockfish, making it worst case scenario.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Direct die is here. Order now if u want cooler temp.


----------



## AvengedRobix

I'm satisfied.. Vcore 1.28V (LLC High drop 1.21V) 2Core 55 6 core 53 All Core 52-- E-Core 41

Intel Core i9 12900K @ 5200 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR (x86.fr)


----------



## ddev

bscool said:


> I use the benchmate BenchMate version as portable app. pi2.5b
> 
> 
> 
> https://d1ebmxcfh8bf9c.cloudfront.net/u430252/image_id_2605700.jpg


Big thanks for this bench, got unstable ring and too low voltage, set ring to 4.2 from 4.3 and voltage dc from 1.10 to 0.9, seems stable for this bench. Ram is fine here.


----------



## ddev

LionAlonso said:


> Its normal to need more voltage for occt small avx extreme or prime.
> Whats your vid when running cb23 at 5.0ghz?
> And your vcore?
> i also needed to bump it to pass that programs without bluescreens but may not be neccesary for a daily OC.


I just set a bit higher min voltage, so i get min vid 1.26 to 1.29, vcore shows 1.261 to 1.35.
But still avx2 smallfft loads getting bluescreens  Idk, even if i set avx2 offset like 2 no matter, i think something wrong with my board. Not sure how to test it fine. Will text to the asus strix topic, maybe somebody helps me with this voltage issue.


----------



## AvengedRobix

First attempt of daily profile


----------



## geriatricpollywog

AvengedRobix said:


> First attempt of daily profile
> View attachment 2538385


Temps look insanely good. Did you open HWInfo64 after Cinebench finished?


----------



## Exilon

Xiph said:


> Lift from another thread: ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...
> 
> I'm using 500 VRM switching frequency and seems that idle restart problem is mostly with Strix A boards.
> 
> Earlier I didn't find solution by rising voltages. Also with full stock settings, my system was idle stable and after I just entered my loadline and digivrm settings, it started to reboot. Of course I was expecting it was from loadline settings...


Using auto, it still fell over with my AC_LL=0.37, DC_LL=0.97 settings after 30 minutes of cooling overnight.
As shamino said, it's probably transients in heavily undervolted states with voltage optimization enabled. Maybe 500kHz is making something worse.


----------



## Electrosoft

geriatricpollywog said:


> Temps look insanely good. Did you open HWInfo64 after Cinebench finished?


I think so. The total package power max is ~32w and zero Vcore variance.


----------



## AvengedRobix

geriatricpollywog said:


> Temps look insanely good. Did you open HWInfo64 after Cinebench finished?


Yes, Sorry for the mistake, i've opened hwinfo After the bench only to see all the setting.. max temp Is 74C.. i Need to change wb, this Is old and scratched ☹


----------



## LionAlonso

Electrosoft said:


> I think so. The total package power max is ~32w and zero Vcore variance.


Also, why would someone hide effective clocks in HWinfo? XDDD


----------



## geriatricpollywog

AvengedRobix said:


> Yes, Sorry for the mistake, i've opened hwinfo After the bench only to see all the setting.. max temp Is 74C.. i Need to change wb, this Is old and scratched ☹


I need a block too. My EK Supremacy Evo isn't even flat and my Optimus Sig V2 is prone to leaks if I over-torque the nuts. Hopefully some new blocks come out for LGA1700.


----------



## AvengedRobix

geriatricpollywog said:


> I need a block too. My EK Supremacy Evo isn't even flat and my Optimus Sig V2 is prone to leaks if I over-torque the nuts. Hopefully some new blocks come out for LGA1700.


I've Just ordered a velocity2 for 1700.. 2 or 3 days 👍


----------



## AvengedRobix

LionAlonso said:


> Also, why would someone hide effective clocks in HWinfo? XDDD


Because for me interessa Number of result for hwbot.. not keep opened hwinfo 😉


----------



## Nizzen

Scaling in tombraider.
6000c30 (samsung) VS @sugi0lover 's 6400tweaked









sugi0lover 's 6400tweaked


----------



## gecko991

Waiting for my Velocity 2 and just got a 6800XT, end of the week.


----------



## xarot

12900K feels quite hard to cool even with a custom loop when loading 100% CPU. Too small die size to dissipate heat, it’s like my old hot furnace i9-7900X even when delidded? For example 10980XE is much easier to cool with my loop than 12900K even with higher power usage. 

I hope it’s just a mounting problem or chip quality. But the die size pics still tell me it’s quite a small die for all that heat anyway?


----------



## Nizzen

gecko991 said:


> Waiting for my Velocity 2 and just got a 6800XT, end of the week.


My Ek V2 on 12900k. It' actual very good and monting never has been more easy! 52c max @ 5.5ghz in BF 2042 max cpubound settings.


----------



## Nizzen

Fps in Battlefield V is crazy high with AL and DDR5 6k tweaked !

Never seen that high fps in that game before  DX12 and no config file.


----------



## domdtxdissar

Nizzen said:


> Scaling in tombraider.
> 6000c30 (samsung) VS @sugi0lover 's 6400tweaked
> View attachment 2538410
> 
> 
> sugi0lover 's 6400tweaked
> View attachment 2538412


Wrong version, you are running with DRM enabled.. You would gain ~30fps.


----------



## Ichirou

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2538418


Is that the Heatkiller tube MO-RA adapter? Does it work with non-Watercool products (i.e. does it have standard 120mm mounting holes)?


----------



## SuperMumrik

domdtxdissar said:


> Wrong version, you are running with DRM enabled.. You would gain ~30fps.


Yep, definitely. I had 335 or smt with those ****ty micron sticks(5400c34).


----------



## Nizzen

Ichirou said:


> Is that the Heatkiller tube MO-RA adapter? Does it work with non-Watercool products (i.e. does it have standard 120mm mounting holes)?


I'm using 4x 200mm fans from Noctua. Using the fan adapter/bracket from Watercool. MO-RA3 420 BRACKET FOR 180-230 MM FANS
I have no Heatkiller, just EK dual pump and "res", quick disconnects from Koolance


----------



## Nizzen

SuperMumrik said:


> Yep, definitely. I had 335 or smt with those ****ty micron sticks(5400c34).


How to downgrade the steam version?


----------



## domdtxdissar

Nizzen said:


> How to downgrade the steam version?


Did not ask me, but:


----------



## Ichirou

Nizzen said:


> I'm using 4x 200mm fans from Noctua. Using the fan adapter/bracket from Watercool. MO-RA3 420 BRACKET FOR 180-230 MM FANS
> I have no Heatkiller, just EK dual pump and "res", quick disconnects from Koolance


No I mean; how did you connect the EK Dualtop D5 and Res to the MORA?


----------



## Nizzen

Ichirou said:


> No I mean; how did you connect the EK Dualtop D5 and Res to the MORA?


Aahh, sorry... I ordered from Watercool.de, and now I see what you mean.
This is the bracket: HEATKILLER® Tube - MO-RA3 Adapter - White

PS:It's just holding the RES, but the whole thing is standing on the table


----------



## sugi0lover

Nizzen said:


> Scaling in tombraider.
> 6000c30 (samsung) VS @sugi0lover 's 6400tweaked
> View attachment 2538410
> 
> 
> sugi0lover 's 6400tweaked
> View attachment 2538412


I ran with all cores on including P cores and E cores, but HT is off.
You will get +20 fps by disabling HT.


----------



## Ichirou

Nizzen said:


> Aahh, sorry... I ordered from Watercool.de, and now I see what you mean.
> This is the bracket: HEATKILLER® Tube - MO-RA3 Adapter - White
> 
> PS:It's just holding the RES, but the whole thing is standing on the table


Oh, I didn't even see that lol. Do you know if the adapter supports 120mm or 140mm sockets? Would give me a lot of options to choose from.
What EKWB bracket do you use to hold the reservoir in place?


sugi0lover said:


> I ran with all cores on including P cores and E cores, but HT is off.
> You will get +20 fps by disabling HT.


Would the best performance be with E-cores and hyperthreading disabled? Have you tried it?


----------



## Nizzen

Ichirou said:


> Oh, I didn't even see that lol. Do you know if the adapter supports 120mm or 140mm sockets? Would give me a lot of options to choose from.
> What EKWB bracket do you use to hold the reservoir in place?
> 
> Would the best performance be with E-cores and hyperthreading disabled? Have you tried it?


I have 420 model, so standard fan mount is 140mm 
PS: I'm using cheap cores off and P-core withHT=on. Looks like the performance in battlefield games is VERY good that way. Need to test this for a while, before I go for something else. Whatever is best in Battlefield games, is best for me. Playing BF games "only".


----------



## Ichirou

Nizzen said:


> I have 420 model, so standard fan mount is 140mm
> 
> PS: I'm using cheap cores off and P-core withHT=on. Looks like the performance in battlefield games is VERY good that way. Need to test this for a while, before I go for something else. Whatever is best in Battlefield games, is best for me. Playing BF games "only".


I think you misunderstood me again 

I mean, with the *bracket*, what does it support? Are the holes aligned for 120mm? Or 140mm?
I'm considering mounting some stuff onto the MO-RA, but I don't know what the distance between the screw holes are. Watercool doesn't list any information.


----------



## Nizzen

Ichirou said:


> I think you misunderstood me again
> 
> I mean, with the *bracket*, what does it support? Are the holes aligned for 120mm? Or 140mm?
> I'm considering mounting some stuff onto the MO-RA, but I don't know what the distance between the screw holes are. Watercool doesn't list any information.


For 420 model:
MO-RA3 420 BRACKET FOR 180-230 MM

360 model for 120mm fans, 420 model for 140mm or 180-230 with bracket.


----------



## Ichirou

Nizzen said:


> For 420 model:
> MO-RA3 420 BRACKET FOR 180-230 MM
> 
> 360 model for 120mm fans, 420 model for 140mm or 180-230 with bracket.


I mean, do you know the length of the red and blue lines? (That's my question lol )


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Nizzen said:


> Fps in Battlefield V is crazy high with AL and DDR5 6k tweaked !
> 
> Never seen that high fps in that game before  DX12 and no config file.


For me, DX12 never worked properly...
Any tip?


----------



## Arni90

Falkentyne said:


> Huh? Multiple people have posted Stockfish stable tests here at 5.2 ghz, and Stockfish requires at least 40mv more load vcore to pass than Cinebench R23. I can loop R23 for days at 1.243v load @ 5.2 ghz but Stockfish requires 1.270v. and that's 100C.
> 
> AIDA64 stress FPU doesn't heat up the cores as much as Stockfish. And if you can pass Stockfish, you can pass the OCCT AVX large and SSE Small tests easily (I have to check about AVX small).
> 
> Prime95 30.7 b9 small FFT AVX (don't even get me started about FMA3) runs miles hotter than even stockfish and will pretty much hard lock you/bsod instantly if you are just barely stockfish 30 min stable (assuming you can actually cool that test, prime95 small AVX requires probably 30+ more mv to pass than Stockfish, making it worst case scenario.


My point wasn't that 5.2 GHz is unattainable with some reasonable sense of stability, even my SP84 chip can run 5.2 GHz Stockfish stable (though at 0.02V higher VCore and sub-80C core temps with E-cores enabled).

The problem I have with the 12900KS rumor, is that Intel can't sell a CPU that crashes whenever arbitrary workloads are run. Even if some moron decides to purchase a 12900K, mount a Hyper 212 as a cooler, and run fluid simulations with oneMKL all day, the CPU isn't supposed to crash. The alternatives are to sell the CPU at 5.2 GHz with TVB down to 5.0 GHz, or sell the chip as "stable in games only".


----------



## Ichirou

Arni90 said:


> My point wasn't that 5.2 GHz is unattainable with some reasonable sense of stability, even my SP84 chip can run 5.2 GHz Stockfish stable (though at 0.02V higher VCore and sub-80C core temps with E-cores enabled).
> 
> The problem I have with the 12900KS rumor, is that Intel can't sell a CPU that crashes whenever arbitrary workloads are run. Even if some moron decides to purchase a 12900K, mount a Hyper 212 as a cooler, and run fluid simulations with oneMKL all day, the CPU isn't supposed to crash. The alternatives are to sell the CPU at 5.2 GHz with TVB down to 5.0 GHz, or sell the chip as "stable in games only".


Chances are, they are just a higher SP binned 12900Ks with potentially adjusted core steppings and lower Vcore requirements, so lower heat production in general. And technically, you're not really supposed to run a 12900K on a Hyper 212 anyway. Already gets relatively toasty even with a Noctua on stock. So the CPU crashing with a Hyper 212 is well within the cards. It's Intel's responsibility to properly thermal throttle and not crash when temps get insanely high.


----------



## Falkentyne

Arni90 said:


> My point wasn't that 5.2 GHz is unattainable with some reasonable sense of stability, even my SP84 chip can run 5.2 GHz Stockfish stable (though at 0.02V higher VCore and sub-80C core temps with E-cores enabled).
> 
> The problem I have with the 12900KS rumor, is that Intel can't sell a CPU that crashes whenever arbitrary workloads are run. Even if some moron decides to purchase a 12900K, mount a Hyper 212 as a cooler, and run fluid simulations with oneMKL all day, the CPU isn't supposed to crash. The alternatives are to sell the CPU at 5.2 GHz with TVB down to 5.0 GHz, or sell the chip as "stable in games only".


Why don't we just wait and see instead of getting worked up? Wait for the chip to be released, then pull out your pitchforks. I for one plan on preordering one.


----------



## Arni90

Falkentyne said:


> Why don't we just wait and see instead of getting worked up? Wait for the chip to be released, then pull out your pitchforks. I for one plan on preordering one.


The only pitchfork I wield is pointed at rumour sites creating hype for imaginary products.


----------



## Frozburn

domdtxdissar said:


> Did not ask me, but:
> View attachment 2538448


Is the 449 the one without DRM?


----------



## Falkentyne

Arni90 said:


> The only pitchfork I wield is pointed at rumour sites creating hype for imaginary products.


Well the 12900KS is all but confirmed, and we have nothing to do except just wait for CES. Might as well enjoy our computers and games until then.


----------



## Nizzen

Ichirou said:


> I mean, do you know the length of the red and blue lines? (That's my question lol )


Make whatever holes you want. 🔫🔩


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Ichirou said:


> I mean, do you know the length of the red and blue lines? (That's my question lol )


Watercool sells everything you need for a perfect MO-RA. Unless you are passionate about fabrication, there is no need to deviate.

Watercool HEATKILLER® Tube 150, 79,95 €

Watercool Heatkiller Tube Ausgleichsbehälter Basis Montagekit, 14,95 €

MO-RA3 420 D5-DUALTOP Modul, 144,95 € (watercool.de)


----------



## Nizzen

RobertoSampaio said:


> For me, DX12 never worked properly...
> Any tip?


You need to play a bit. Shaders need to be cached. First round in every map it's cacheing. After that, everything is butter smooth. People think there is something wrong when it's "lagging/stuttering" but it's just due to shader chacheing. I'm getting higher and more stable fps with dx12 in BF V, since I used 2080ti. Only drawback, you can't use coustom config file with dx12. Atleast last time i checked. (some use configfile to make it very bright in some maps.... I'm not that hardcore like Enders and the other streamers


----------



## ansha

Anyone have any idea whats wrong with this 12600K? Huge temp difference between different cores (25C )... This is running prime @5GHZ 1.28V...

It's custom loop, already re-mounted the block once, still the same...


----------



## geriatricpollywog

ansha said:


> Anyone have any idea whats wrong with this 12600K? Huge temp difference between different cores (25C )... This is running prime @5GHZ 1.28V...
> 
> It's custom loop, already re-mounted the block once, still the same...
> 
> View attachment 2538519


Remove your waterblock and take a picture of what the paste spread looks like on the block and die.


----------



## bscool

@ansha What block and are you using the lga 1700 mounting hardware? When I was first setup z690 using Raystorm with lga1151 mounting hardware my temps were really high. Depending on the block your using if it doesnt let you get enough pressure you will have temp issues.


----------



## ansha

geriatricpollywog said:


> Remove your waterblock and take a picture of what the paste spread looks like on the block and die.


Can't take a pic right now, but it looked perfectly even across the whole ihs...



bscool said:


> @ansha What block and are you using the lga 1700 mounting hardware? When I was first setup z690 using Raystorm with lga1151 mounting hardware my temps were really high. Depending on the block your using if it doesnt let you get enough pressure you will have temp issues.


I'm using EK Supremacy EVO which was originally a x99 version but I ordered s1700 backplate and Intel mounting plate together with precise mount mounting hardware..

What is really interesting is that the coolest core is at same ~71C when running CB, while the hot cores jump by 12-13C when switching from CB to prime with AVX. This is quite inexplicable...


----------



## Ichirou

ansha said:


> Anyone have any idea whats wrong with this 12600K? Huge temp difference between different cores (25C )... This is running prime @5GHZ 1.28V...
> 
> It's custom loop, already re-mounted the block once, still the same...
> 
> View attachment 2538519





ansha said:


> Can't take a pic right now, but it looked perfectly even across the whole ihs...
> 
> 
> I'm using EK Supremacy EVO which was originally a x99 version but I ordered s1700 backplate and Intel mounting plate together with precise mount mounting hardware..
> 
> What is really interesting is that the coolest core is at same ~71C when running CB, while the hot cores jump by 12-13C when switching from CB to prime with AVX. This is quite inexplicable...


Seems about normal for me based on the CPUs I've dealt with in the past. There will always be one or two cores hotter than others, due to the nature of multiple cores/threads.

If you're concerned about an uneven spread, just use liquid metal instead of paste.


----------



## sniperpowa

So far my 5 cpus are sp 78,81,82,83,84 in that order guess I keep buying them I’ll hit 90 lol


----------



## Ichirou

sniperpowa said:


> So far my 5 cpus are sp 78,81,82,83,84 in that order guess I keep buying them I’ll hit 90 lol


LMAO


----------



## CallMeODZ

sniperpowa said:


> So far my 5 cpus are sp 78,81,82,83,84 in that order guess I keep buying them I’ll hit 90 lol


wait for the intel binned KS chips?


----------



## cptclutch

I assume I'm doing something stupid but any obvious reason why my clocks are dropping dramatically when I go from 5.1 on 8 cores to 5.2? Just changing it in the bios by going from 52x6 51x8 to 52x8 and when I do any testing its dropping to 4.8ghz.


----------



## sniperpowa

CallMeODZ said:


> wait for the intel binned KS chips?


Yeah I bought them before the announcement I’ll definitely get a ks I usually get a good chip in two to three tries this is ridiculous


----------



## OffBeatViBE

So my 12900k on Asus Z690-P D4 with Fractal Celsius S36 with 1200 brackets and it can do 5.2P/3.9E/4.2R with 1.380 bios voltage and LLC6 which underload is dropping to 1.368-1.359 and that's running R23 on a loop for like an hour. I feel like my chip is not that good or it's pretty average. Any thoughts ?


----------



## Forsaken1

OffBeatViBE said:


> So my 12900k on Asus Z690-P D4 with Fractal Celsius S36 with 1200 brackets and it can do 5.2P/3.9E/4.2R with 1.380 bios voltage and LLC6 which underload is dropping to 1.368-1.359 and that's running R23 on a loop for like an hour. I feel like my chip is not that good or it's pretty average. Any thoughts ?


Top chips run 1.3 ish volts at 5.3.
A couple for sale on HWBOT for a good price.


----------



## Ichirou

Seems to be a bit of a below average bin. Could just check the SP value in your BIOS to see. Would imagine it being somewhere in the SP 70-80 range. Can disable the E-cores to reduce Vcore consumption.


----------



## bscool

@Ichirou Did you get your binned 12900k yet? Waiting


----------



## LionAlonso

Ichirou said:


> Seems to be a bit of a below average bin. Could just check the SP value in your BIOS to see. Would imagine it being somewhere in the SP 70-80 range. Can disable the E-cores to reduce Vcore consumption.


His board doesnt have SP score.
And yeah seems a below avg chip


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> @Ichirou Did you get your binned 12900k yet? Waiting


One day... One day...


----------



## OffBeatViBE

Ichirou said:


> Seems to be a bit of a below average bin. Could just check the SP value in your BIOS to see. Would imagine it being somewhere in the SP 70-80 range. Can disable the E-cores to reduce Vcore consumption.


I don't have the ai stuff on my Asus


----------



## Exilon

Exilon said:


> Using auto, it still fell over with my AC_LL=0.37, DC_LL=0.97 settings after 30 minutes of cooling overnight.
> As shamino said, it's probably transients in heavily undervolted states with voltage optimization enabled. Maybe 500kHz is making something worse.


@Xiph phase control extreme + 500kHz seems to make it worse. Set both of them to standard/auto and no restarts with +20mV offset on VF#7


----------



## LegendaryAura

LionAlonso said:


> His board doesnt have SP score.
> And yeah seems a below avg chip


What's average for 5.2 (with e cores enabled)? 1.33?


----------



## Xiph

Exilon said:


> @Xiph phase control extreme + 500kHz seems to make it worse. Set both of them to standard/auto and no restarts with +20mV offset on VF#7


Yes, I noticed two days ago, that phase control/duty extreme -> auto fixes problem. I have since made two overnight tests, without single idle reboot. I didn't need to change any voltages to make it stable and also 500Khz is ok.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Guys, sp score on hero is the same as on apex right?


----------



## Talon2016

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Guys, sp score on hero is the same as on apex right?


Yes. SP score should not change across Strix, or any Maximus line.


----------



## OffBeatViBE

LionAlonso said:


> His board doesnt have SP score.
> And yeah seems a below avg chip


I'm not 100% sure about the voltage, I could lower it and test again, or lower my e cores or ring. But yeah pretty average I guess


----------



## Ichirou

Talon2016 said:


> Yes. SP score should not change across Strix, or any Maximus line.


There's actually a little variance between BIOS versions (as reported by someone else here), so I would assume there might be across boards as well. But it shouldn't be by a significant amount.


----------



## Frozburn

Forsaken1 said:


> Top chips run 1.3 ish volts at 5.3.
> A couple for sale on HWBOT for a good price.


That's good to know. Mine is worse: 5.3 requires 1.330v with e cores 40 and cache 44, maybe I can lower it more by reducing the cache and the e cores.


----------



## GtiJason

ansha said:


> Can't take a pic right now, but it looked perfectly even across the whole ihs...
> 
> 
> I'm using EK Supremacy EVO which was originally a x99 version but I ordered s1700 backplate and Intel mounting plate together with precise mount mounting hardware..
> 
> What is really interesting is that the coolest core is at same ~71C when running CB, while the hot cores jump by 12-13C when switching from CB to prime with AVX. This is quite inexplicable...


If the mount really is as you say (and I have no reason to doubt you) then I would say it is ****ty solder job. Only way you get 20C deviation between cores on an i5 is air bubbles


----------



## cstkl1

i9 12900k - SP93
Asus MZ690 Apex - Bios 0806
2x16gb 6600 28-37-37-28-1T @1.65v
SA | txvddq | MC - 0.9v | 1.55v | 1.55v


----------



## ChaosAD

Xiph said:


> Yes, I noticed two days ago, that phase control/duty extreme -> auto fixes problem. I have since made two overnight tests, without single idle reboot. I didn't need to change any voltages to make it stable and also 500Khz is ok.


I also noticed the same on my Apex, phase control set to extreme lead to random restarts, set back to auto make it stable again. 800khz make no difference in stability.


----------



## ansha

GtiJason said:


> If the mount really is as you say (and I have no reason to doubt you) then I would say it is ****ty solder job. Only way you get 20C deviation between cores on an i5 is air bubbles


This extreme deviation is under heavy fpu load like avx prime... "Normal" load like Cinebench is like 8-10°C so that is almost ok...


----------



## cstkl1




----------



## OffBeatViBE

Could thermal velocity boost work with disabled C states ?


----------



## Frozburn

I'm amazed these chips can run at such low voltages with all the cores enabled. Left this thing for 8 hours while I was away and 2 hours in Cinebench + a few hours of Battlefield V / 2042 1080p low. I've no idea how stable this is in some overkill benchmark but for gaming it works with no WHEA errors.


----------



## Exilon

shamino1978 said:


> Imo , the idle restarts is 90% due to voltage optimization enabled + hi light boost ratio + aggressive undervolting , just because it passes load with the lower voltage. Either disable voltage optimization and retune voltage or increase voltage.


From experimenting, a couple of us figured out that setting phase control back to standard/auto stops the restarts on Apex and Strix boards.


----------



## IronAge

OffBeatViBE said:


> Could thermal velocity boost work with disabled C states ?


AFAIK Nope.


----------



## Nizzen

Frozburn said:


> I'm amazed these chips can run at such low voltages with all the cores enabled. Left this thing for 8 hours while I was away and 2 hours in Cinebench + a few hours of Battlefield V / 2042 1080p low. I've no idea how stable this is in some overkill benchmark but for gaming it works with no WHEA errors.
> 
> View attachment 2538970


Cold cpu allways does magic


----------



## Falkentyne

Nizzen said:


> Cold cpu allways does magic



Can you tell us how to remove the alseye fans to put noctua fans on them?
Two of us asked you but you ignored both of us


----------



## Nizzen

Falkentyne said:


> Can you tell us how to remove the alseye fans to put noctua fans on them?
> Two of us asked you but you ignored both of us


Sorry, didn't see it. Too many alerts 😅

I don't have it, I just saw a few people that had modded them. Drill them out, must be pretty easy 

Ignoring won't happen again (I hope so) 😘


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Nizzen said:


> Sorry, didn't see it. Too many alerts 😅
> 
> I don't have it, I just saw a few people that had modded them. Drill them out, must be pretty easy
> 
> Ignoring won't happen again (I hope so) 😘



@Falkentyne 
I removed the alseye fans and fixed the noctua with clamps


----------



## Simkin

Just got my hands on a set of G.Skill 6000 C36 non RGB, and i have another G.Skill 6000 C36 on its way (RGB)

I saw another post here a few pages back of a G.Skill 6000 C40 set with Hynix ic, but to my understanding these 6000 sets can be both Samsung and Hynix?

Does it matter much OC wise? can my 6000 C36 sets be either of them? if so i gonna check both sets.


----------



## jomama22

Simkin said:


> Just got my hands on a set of G.Skill 6000 C36 non RGB, and i have another G.Skill 6000 C36 on its way (RGB)
> 
> I saw another post here a few pages back of a G.Skill 6000 C40 set with Hynix ic, but to my understanding these 6000 sets can be both Samsung and Hynix?
> 
> Does it matter much OC wise? can my 6000 C36 sets be either of them? if so i gonna check both sets.


I haven't seen any production gskill have hynix, the ones that were are es.


----------



## morph.

The new RAM bumped up my CPU-z score up a little...!


----------



## leonman44

I see most of the guys are using adaptive voltage and allow vdroop will there be any issue if I OC traditionally this cpu? Like if I use fixed voltage with fixed frequency, high Vrm setting and a high enough llc for no vdroop under load ?


----------



## Ichirou

leonman44 said:


> I see most of the guys are using adaptive voltage and allow vdroop will there be any issue if I OC traditionally this cpu? Like if I use fixed voltage with fixed frequency, high Vrm setting and a high enough llc for no vdroop under load ?


Nope. The people here are just trying to be cool 
I'd rather spend the time on tightening RAM than trying to optimize CPU voltages. Fixed speed fixed voltages baby.

And on the topic of RAM, I got ahold of Galax's limited edition 5,000 MHz Samsung B-die DDR4 kit, so I'll see how that performs on a 12900k.
Super expensive for 2x8 GB so it'll just be for fun.


----------



## mgkhn

Simkin said:


> Just got my hands on a set of G.Skill 6000 C36 non RGB, and i have another G.Skill 6000 C36 on its way (RGB)
> 
> I saw another post here a few pages back of a G.Skill 6000 C40 set with Hynix ic, but to my understanding these 6000 sets can be both Samsung and Hynix?
> 
> Does it matter much OC wise? can my 6000 C36 sets be either of them? if so i gonna check both sets.


there is two type gskill on market 6000c36 and 6000c40 they samsung ( F5-6000U3636E16GX2 or F5-6000U4040E16GX2 ) think "E" letter for Samsung chip. and theres "A" lettered 6000c40 kit hynix but not avaible on market


----------



## leonman44

Ichirou said:


> Nope. The people here are just trying to be cool
> I'd rather spend the time on tightening RAM than trying to optimize CPU voltages. Fixed speed fixed voltages baby.
> 
> And on the topic of RAM, I got ahold of Galax's limited edition 5,000 MHz Samsung B-die DDR4 kit, so I'll see how that performs on a 12900k.
> Super expensive for 2x8 GB so it'll just be for fun.


I am going to oc everything ! 😂
That’s also some crazy ddr4 there , I have ordered the Gskill Z5 rgb 6000mhz cl40 kits which I am waiting. And I hope they will also oc good cause as far as ram goes it seems that good ddr4s are better for gaming than stock ddr5s or even 5000-6000mhz slow kits. But I chose ddr5 anyway as my 2400mhz ddr4s are really old , a quad channel kit from the x99 platform.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

I got my hands on some Corsair Dominator Platinum 5600 C36. Anyone know if they are Hynix or Micron? Really really hoping Hynix!


----------



## Ichirou

leonman44 said:


> I am going to oc everything ! 😂
> That’s also some crazy ddr4 there , I have ordered the Gskill Z5 rgb 6000mhz cl40 kits which I am waiting. And I hope they will also oc good cause as far as ram goes it seems that good ddr4s are better for gaming than stock ddr5s or even 5000-6000mhz slow kits. But I chose ddr5 anyway as my 2400mhz ddr4s are really old , a quad channel kit from the x99 platform.


My decision to stay with DDR4 more boils down to the fact that DDR5 is expensive as-f and are basically unicorns.


----------



## Frozburn

Can you guys share your SOTR DDR4 results? Preferably 720p lowest or 1080p lowest because I am on a 3080 instead of a 3090. The max I get is 325 which seems low. Any tips? Fresh Win 11 Windows, all the background stuff is disabled, the 3080 runs at 2150 core and the 12900K is fixed at 5.3 all core.

I have tried E cores disabled and hyperthreading disabled. HAGS is off, game mode is on. I saw a picture with a 10900K getting 335 fps with a 6600 XT so no idea what's going on here.

RAM is 4000 CL14 14 14 28 CR2 Gear 1, B-die and stable.


----------



## leonman44

Ichirou said:


> My decision to stay with DDR4 more boils down to the fact that DDR5 is expensive as-f and are basically unicorns.


Well yeah , I paid a lot for mine too and In top of that I have to wait for the next restock and I can’t even enjoy my new system right now…




Frozburn said:


> Can you guys share your SOTR DDR4 results? Preferably 720p lowest or 1080p lowest because I am on a 3080 instead of a 3090. The max I get is 325 which seems low. Any tips? Fresh Win 11 Windows, all the background stuff is disabled, the 3080 runs at 2150 core and the 12900K is fixed at 5.3 all core.
> 
> I have tried E cores disabled and hyperthreading disabled. HAGS is off, game mode is on. I saw a picture with a 10900K getting 335 fps with a 6600 XT so no idea what's going on here.
> 
> RAM is 4000 CL14 14 14 28 CR2 Gear 1, B-die and stable.


Have you tried to set “prefer maximum performance” for that game in nvidias control panel for that game ? Usually leaving it as adaptive or optimal will reduce the frequency of the card when it decides it’s not needed resulting in lower max fps and more drops.

Also it’s a fresh windows 11 install VBS may be on by default and that will hurt your performance by a lot , please check if it’s disabled. But In the end of the day windows 11 will have lower max fps and bigger drops when compared to win10.


----------



## Simkin

jomama22 said:


> I haven't seen any production gskill have hynix, the ones that were are es.


Ok, it was post #2813 user cstkl1 - i see now it says F60004040A16G and G.Skill 16GB ES in the other ram slot.


----------



## Frozburn

leonman44 said:


> Well yeah , I paid a lot for mine too and In top of that I have to wait for the next restock and I can’t even enjoy my new system right now…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Have you tried to set “prefer maximum performance” for that game in nvidias control panel for that game ? Usually leaving it as adaptive or optimal will reduce the frequency of the card when it decides it’s not needed resulting in lower max fps and more drops.
> 
> Also it’s a fresh windows 11 install VBS may be on by default and that will hurt your performance by a lot , please check if it’s disabled. But In the end of the day windows 11 will have lower max fps and bigger drops when compared to win10.


I already had VBS disabled and prefer maximum performance is always on, yeah. I'm really curious why my FPS is bad. First picture is 5.3 with HT on and E cores on. Second is with both off. The game version is v1.0 build 449.0_64



















A picture from a 10900K (posted by 2500K_2) tho I've no idea what that CPU is running at or what RAM it's using but still. Higher results than a 12900K with a worse GPU.










My minimum FPS by the CPU is lower.


----------



## Ichirou

Frozburn said:


> I already had VBS disabled and prefer maximum performance is always on, yeah. I'm really curious why my FPS is bad. First picture is 5.3 with HT on and E cores on. Second is with both off. The game version is v1.0 build 449.0_64
> 
> View attachment 2539232
> 
> 
> View attachment 2539233
> 
> 
> A picture from a 10900K (posted by 2500K_2) tho I've no idea what that CPU is running at or what RAM it's using but still. Higher results than a 12900K with a worse GPU.
> 
> View attachment 2539234
> 
> 
> My minimum FPS by the CPU is lower.


Looks like higher clocked CPU and most likely tightened RAM.


----------



## Frozburn

Ichirou said:


> Looks like higher clocked CPU and most likely tightened RAM.


Most likely, yeah. Messed with the sub timings and also set the ram to 4100 CL 14 and 1080p at 50% res, now it jumped to 345 FPS on both win 10 and win 11. Think my subtimings are just garbage and need some work.


----------



## leonman44

Frozburn said:


> Most likely, yeah. Messed with the sub timings and also set the ram to 4100 CL 14 and 1080p at 50% res, now it jumped to 345 FPS on both win 10 and win 11. Think my subtimings are just garbage and need some work.
> 
> View attachment 2539266


Only thing I can think other than that is if for some reason if you have HPET enabled.


----------



## Frozburn

leonman44 said:


> Only thing I can think other than that is if for some reason if you have HPET enabled.


I have it disabled in device manager


----------



## digitalfrost

To anyone with cooling problems on this platform, Igor found out that some board/cooler combinations will bend out of the box because the retention bracket/socket assembly is too weak: Cooling issues with Intel’s Alder Lake - Problems with the LGA-1700 socket and a possible workaround | igor'sLAB


----------



## leonman44

Frozburn said:


> I have it disabled in device manager
> 
> View attachment 2539286


You can always run latencymon , let all your regular programs that opens during your system boot run in the background but nothing else , run this for a couple of minutes so we can spot if something increases your latency and uses the cpu more than it should therefore it reduces your performance. Even programs like Corsair Icue can reduce your performance. If nothing abnormal is spotted in this test then it’s purely hardware limitation and your software setup is perfect.



digitalfrost said:


> To anyone with cooling problems on this platform, Igor found out that some board/cooler combinations will bend out of the box because the retention bracket/socket assembly is too weak: Cooling issues with Intel’s Alder Lake - Problems with the LGA-1700 socket and a possible workaround | igor'sLAB


Good to know all these , the not perfect IHS is a well known issue on every CPU generation but I will check both my cpu and my motherboard, hope I won’t find anything wrong with them.


----------



## ogider

ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 HERO Motherboards Might Have A Serious Defect, Several Reports of Boards Burning Up


ASUS's ROG Maximus Z690 HERO motherboard seems to have a fatal flaw that leads to the board burning up & showing an orange light of death.




wccftech.com


----------



## leonman44

ogider said:


> ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 HERO Motherboards Might Have A Serious Defect, Several Reports of Boards Burning Up
> 
> 
> ASUS's ROG Maximus Z690 HERO motherboard seems to have a fatal flaw that leads to the board burning up & showing an orange light of death.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wccftech.com


Oh no thats the one i bought


----------



## Nizzen

ogider said:


> ASUS ROG Maximus Z690 HERO Motherboards Might Have A Serious Defect, Several Reports of Boards Burning Up
> 
> 
> ASUS's ROG Maximus Z690 HERO motherboard seems to have a fatal flaw that leads to the board burning up & showing an orange light of death.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wccftech.com


Clickbait news?
If it's a issue, no need to worry here in Norway. 5 years return if broken 🤠


----------



## Spiriva

Everything wccftech writes is pure **** anyhow.


----------



## ObviousCough

The answer is in the comment section, no stand off.


----------



## Forsaken1

cletus-cassidy said:


> I got my hands on some Corsair Dominator Platinum 5600 C36. Anyone know if they are Hynix or Micron? Really really hoping Hynix!


Samsung typically.


----------



## sugi0lover

This SP96 12900K was sold at Korean PC forum yesterday
Guys, guess how much?


----------



## Mad1137

With new bios (0811) I got not normal jumps on vdrop... Previous bios I set 5.0ghz 1.267 and got no big jumps . Now I got same settings, and vdrop till 1.198-1.195 .. why it's happen ?? All settings same . Testing in cb23 . Pls help


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Some new information about how to use "Specific Core Adaptive Voltage".









ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...


Disclaimer ! These settings and methods are outside Intel's specifications, just like any other overclocking method. ---------------------------------------------------- For Z790/13900K click here Introduction: In a world increasingly concerned with natural resources, the watchword is...




www.overclock.net


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> This SP96 12900K was sold at Korean PC forum yesterday
> Guys, guess how much?
> 
> View attachment 2539356
> View attachment 2539357
> 
> View attachment 2539358


Whatever it was, probably too much.


----------



## Mad1137

Guys some one help ?)) Pls


----------



## sugi0lover

geriatricpollywog said:


> Whatever it was, probably too much.


USD 640... I should have seen it eariler, so I could get it for my sub-system.
For SP89 12900K, I see its price around USD 580.
For SP85, around USD 520..


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> USD 640... I should have seen it eariler, so I could get it for my sub-system.
> For SP89 12900K, I see its price around USD 580.
> For SP85, around USD 520..


Not as bad as I thought then.


----------



## CallMeODZ

sub-system? you need to do a house tour sugi
i picture you at the top floor of a penthouse with mo-ra hanging out of every window

- edit here - ps merry Christmas to all those who celebrate


----------



## sugi0lover

CallMeODZ said:


> sub-system? you need to do a house tour sugi
> i picture you at the top floor of a penthouse with mo-ra hanging out of every window
> 
> - edit here - ps merry Christmas to all those who celebrate


Oh I am not that passinate^^ My friend has SP 105 for his main PC and SP103 for his sub PC.
Merry Christmas to all guys here!


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> USD 640... I should have seen it eariler, so I could get it for my sub-system.
> For SP89 12900K, I see its price around USD 580.
> For SP85, around USD 520..


Welp, I probably overpaid then, but that's just what happens to early adopters, I guess. I'll make it back in a month


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Welp, I probably overpaid then, but that's just what happens to early adopters, I guess. I'll make it back in a month


For SP108 12900K, the price was around USD 1,250, but the deal got broken because 108 was SP bug. It was actually SP84 ^^


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> For SP108 12900K, the price was around USD 1,250, but the deal got broken because 108 was SP bug. It was actually SP84 ^^


I did hear about the SP bug before. How would someone know what is the true value or not? Specific BIOS version? I paid $1,050 USD for P-core SP98 (I don't care about E-cores). As long as I'm within the ballpark for that kind of SP, I'm content.


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> I did hear about the SP bug before. How would someone know what is the true value or not? Specific BIOS version? I paid $1,050 USD for P-core SP98 (I don't care about E-cores). As long as I'm within the ballpark for that kind of SP, I'm content.


For SP103 12900K, these are SPs I got so far from the same CPU. 

Real SP: 103
Bug SP: 104, 97, 96, 93, 91, 5
It didn't matter what bios I flashed. Nowdays, I use this method to make the SP variance small or none.
Load default and save and exit. Enter into Bios and flash... This way, I had SP bug just once so far.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> For SP103 12900K, these are SPs I got so far from the same CPU.
> 
> Real SP: 103
> Bug SP: 104, 97, 96, 93, 91, 5
> It didn't matter what bios I flashed. Nowdays, I use this method to make the SP variance small or none.
> Load default and save and exit. Enter into Bios and flash... This way, I had SP bug just once so far.


So, to get the real SP, open BIOS, load defaults, save and restart, enter BIOS and flash new BIOS version?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> So, to get the real SP, open BIOS, load defaults, save and restart, enter BIOS and flash new BIOS version?


That's the best way I know. 
If you buy it from someone, ask him/her to do the process twice with different bioss and see SP match.


----------



## jomama22

sugi0lover said:


> That's the best way I know.
> If you buy it from someone, ask him/her to do the process twice with different bioss and see SP match.


Yeah, when binning multiple chips, if you loaded any profile at all that had been saved, it would have whatever sp the chip that was used to save the profile, vids and all.

On first boot up, if you had loaded optimized defaults before switching chips, it would read correctly on the first boot.


----------



## matique

7000c36 boots and benches but I couldn't stabilise. I figure someone who is more determined probably would get this stable but i have tried various combinations and it just wouldn't work. I've tried a range of 1.2v-1.35v for SA, 1.45v-1.55v for vdd/vddq/txvddq, 1.3v-1.35v for MC, done on z690i strix ITX.

Edit: just for fun, tightened it down a little to see it goes. One day, maybe.


----------



## sugi0lover

jomama22 said:


> Yeah, when binning multiple chips, if you loaded any profile at all that had been saved, it would have whatever sp the chip that was used to save the profile, vids and all.
> 
> On first boot up, if you had loaded optimized defaults before switching chips, it would read correctly on the first boot.


I know what you mean. But I don't bin cpus at all, so usually keep the same cpu all the time with that cpu profile. But without loading default, SP sometimes got changed when flasing.


----------



## Spiriva

Santa got me a EK Waterblock for the 12900k/z690, gonna be good to change it for the older EK velocity i got on my Hero z690 










Merry Xmas all!


----------



## Frozburn

Spiriva said:


> Santa got me a EK Waterblock for the 12900k/z690, gonna be good to change it for the older EK velocity i got on my Hero z690
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Merry Xmas all!


Temp comparison maybe? [emoji106]


----------



## Spiriva

Frozburn said:


> Temp comparison maybe? [emoji106]


Maybe i didnt have a perfect mount with the velocity-1, but in 3dmark cpu test it dropped from 72c to 67c running at 5.4ghz all cores @ 1.385v with the velocity-2 on it.
Ran it a couple of times just before i changed and now just after. Its about 19c in the room.










*I really like the new mount design EK have done, with the 4 screws on the backplate and none on top of the cpu block.


----------



## Frozburn

Spiriva said:


> Maybe i didnt have a perfect mount with the velocity-1, but in 3dmark cpu test it dropped from 72c to 67c running at 5.4ghz all cores @ 1.385v with the velocity-2 on it.
> Ran it a couple of times just before i changed and now just after. Its about 19c in the room.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I really like the new mount design EK have done, with the 4 screws on the backplate and none on top of the cpu block.


Yeah I am a fan of that design. Will be switching to this block soon. Thanks for numbers


----------



## IronAge

Ichirou said:


> So, to get the real SP, open BIOS, load defaults, save and restart, enter BIOS and flash new BIOS version?


Safest way i know is to erform USB Flashback with latest release Bios and after USB Flashback enter UEFI and check SP Values. 

Worked with S1200/Rocket Lake as well.


----------



## DooRules

GSKILL DDR5 on newegg.ca


----------



## bscool

IronAge said:


> Safest way i know is to erform USB Flashback with latest release Bios and after USB Flashback enter UEFI and check SP Values.
> 
> Worked with S1200/Rocket Lake as well.


Did they fix microcode update on all boards using Flashback? I know on z590 Apex it was broken and would not update microcode so you have to use EZ flash to get microcode and "accurate" sp.

Not saying any z690 boards have this issue but I wouldnt put blind faith in Flashback on any generation new or old without verifying.


----------



## IronAge

Never had that Issue with Apex Z590, when i did US Flashback MC and other ROM got updated as well.

And a m8 confirmed doing a Flashback (not from 0015) did fix wrong SP prediction with Z690 Apex as well.


----------



## bscool

IronAge said:


> Never had that Issue with Apex Z590, when i did US Flashback MC and other ROM got updated as well.
> 
> And a m8 confirmed doing a Flashback (not from 0015) did fix wrong SP prediction with Z690 Apex as well.


It is a know bug on z590 Apex with 11th gen cpu did you check the microcode?


----------



## morph.

Spiriva said:


> Maybe i didnt have a perfect mount with the velocity-1, but in 3dmark cpu test it dropped from 72c to 67c running at 5.4ghz all cores @ 1.385v with the velocity-2 on it.
> Ran it a couple of times just before i changed and now just after. Its about 19c in the room.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *I really like the new mount design EK have done, with the 4 screws on the backplate and none on top of the cpu block.


 The cooling engine of velocity 2 is designed for the 12900k for optimal cooling of where the new cpu die is as well as using some of the technology from the magnitude blocks. +1 for velocity 2!


----------



## IronAge

bscool said:


> It is a know bug on z590 Apex with 11th gen cpu did you check the microcode?


as i stated i had no issues with flashback on Z590 Apex, worked as intendend and i owned three of it, and a Hero as well.

still have one around in the retail box + two 11700K nobody wants to buy for a reasonable price.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

IronAge said:


> as i stated i had no issues with flashback on Z590 Apex, worked as intendend and i owned three of it, and a Hero as well.
> 
> still have one around in the retail box + two 12700K nobody wants to buy for a reasonable price.


Did you post a for sale thread in the classified forum?


----------



## sugi0lover

IronAge said:


> as i stated i had no issues with flashback on Z590 Apex, worked as intendend and i owned three of it, and a Hero as well.
> 
> still have one around in the retail box + two 12700K nobody wants to buy for a reasonable price.


I had flashback issue that it could't update microcode. I did wrong nomc job to 11th gen bios , flashed and that side bios never recovered from every method I know since mc was the problem and flashback never update it and I could't enter into bios at all.
And even with that sp fixed bios, and that default load exit and flash method, my sp103 got to sp104. It's not perfect. But I like it 104 ^^


----------



## morph.

Oomph +1 to my e-cores and tweaked my TVB settings per-core ratios a tad little bit more...


----------



## CptSpig

DooRules said:


> GSKILL DDR5 on newegg.ca


Picked up a kit two weeks ago F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5K. 6000 memory OC and CPU 5.5 OC on ASUS Z690 Apex.


----------



## Mad1137

Guys hello . Help me with starting OCy 12900k (85sp ) what numbers I need set ?? Pls help  most appreciated


----------



## Nizzen

Mad1137 said:


> Guys hello . Help me with starting OCy 12900k (85sp ) what numbers I need set ?? Pls help  most appreciated


Show us your v/f cure in bios  If you have Asus


----------



## Mad1137

Nizzen said:


> Show us your v/f cure in bios  If you have Asus


What show ?) I m new here  where I can find it


----------



## Fire2

any idea's guys 5.1/4.1 seems stable as with 1.2900v LL6 cant seem to get 4.2e or 5.2p. even with 1.3400v think it needs over 1.35+? I feel coolin will be an issue over this.


----------



## Hfhjfg

Fire2 said:


> any idea's guys 5.1/4.1 seems stable as with 1.2900v LL6 cant seem to get 4.2e or 5.2p. even with 1.3400v think it needs over 1.35+? I feel coolin will be an issue over this.


Try to get stability for p-cores only first. I.e. with stock e-cores/ring. Maybe your ring or e-cores are limiting your OC.


----------



## ObviousCough

The sTIM job on Alder Lake seems to be pretty terrible.

I've reapplied paste multiple times, tried rotating my water block every which way. Core 5 just wants to burn up. Looking at the bin thread, everyone else seems to be having trouble with Core 6.


----------



## snakeeyes111

I'll do both tests again. TM5 with more tested Ram and Karhu for a longer time over night. Its just a quick test. Before Karhu cant pass 200% ^^, atm it reach 1600%.


----------



## LegendaryAura

Fire2 said:


> View attachment 2539673
> 
> 
> any idea's guys 5.1/4.1 seems stable as with 1.2900v LL6 cant seem to get 4.2e or 5.2p. even with 1.3400v think it needs over 1.35+? I feel coolin will be an issue over this.


Unless you're doing it for benchmarks sake its not worth it. Mine can do 5.2/4.2/4.2 at 1.34V and i literally get 1% extra perf on benchmarks for a lot more power. I run 5.1/4.0/4.0 at 1.27 which is much more manageable.


----------



## LegendaryAura

ObviousCough said:


> The sTIM job on Alder Lake seems to be pretty terrible.
> 
> I've reapplied paste multiple times, tried rotating my water block every which way. Core 5 just wants to burn up. Looking at the bin thread, everyone else seems to be having trouble with Core 6.


For me its core 5 also. Its been this way on two 12900ks I've tested and multiple water blocks.


----------



## CallMeODZ

another gem from the industry watchdog j2c
does anyone here even know someone this has happened to?

knowing reddit someone prob tried to tac weld rgb cable to this for a mod and fire
i feel sorry for asus sometimes, all the idiots with z590 rma the hero because of PCH temps


----------



## LionAlonso

LegendaryAura said:


> Unless you're doing it for benchmarks sake its not worth it. Mine can do 5.2/4.2/4.2 at 1.34V and i literally get 1% extra perf on benchmarks for a lot more power. I run 5.1/4.0/4.0 at 1.27 which is much more manageable.


How much is your sp?


----------



## ObviousCough

I'm using an Optimus Foundation block in a custom loop, at 1.33v i shouldn't have a core hitting 91c during a 10 minute run of R23. 10900k was pulling all the power at 5.5Ghz and the temps were very manageable Intel Core i9 10900K @ 5500 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR



LegendaryAura said:


> For me its core 5 also. Its been this way on two 12900ks I've tested and multiple water blocks.


----------



## Ichirou

How does it turn out if you clock down specifically the fifth core? Or is the heat spread from the other cores still going to exacerbate it?


----------



## bscool

ObviousCough said:


> The sTIM job on Alder Lake seems to be pretty terrible.
> 
> I've reapplied paste multiple times, tried rotating my water block every which way. Core 5 just wants to burn up. Looking at the bin thread, everyone else seems to be having trouble with Core 6.


Do you know of anyone else that delidded or direct die? When I test I see a core to core difference of between 11-15c depending on load and vcore. 

Here he delidded and direct die and still 12c difference at 1:21 




It seems is more to the architecture and die layout if direct die still sees such variance.


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> Do you know of anyone else that delidded or direct die? When I test I see a core to core difference of between 11-15c depending on load and vcore.
> 
> Here he delidded and direct die and still 12c difference at 1:21
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems is more to the architecture and die layout if direct die still sees such variance.


This sort of thing doesn't really come as a surprise to me as there will always be one or two cores being pushed hard by the PC.
I can't say I've seen differences of 10C+, but 5-8C on hotter cores? Sure.

All in all, the 12th Gen is hot and needs even better cooling than before. It's time to temper expectations and try to keep temps under even 60-70C just to have that headroom for spikes.


----------



## bscool

Look at his wattage peaks. 370w+ I have never hit anything like that on my 12900k. I have seen 320w when trying to run 54 all core and I thought that was high. I am only using an AIO right now


----------



## HiLuckyB

bscool said:


> Do you know of anyone else that delidded or direct die? When I test I see a core to core difference of between 11-15c depending on load and vcore.
> 
> Here he delidded and direct die and still 12c difference at 1:21
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems is more to the architecture and die layout if direct die still sees such variance.


I have a delid SP91 12900K I'm going to be working on tonight after work. 
I just got some liquid metal, So I'll see what kind of temp spread I'll end up with.


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> Look at his wattage peaks. 370w+ I have never hit anything like that on my 12900k. I have seen 320w when trying to run 54 all core and I thought that was high. I am only using an AIO right now


Is it possible to disable individual cores like the one(s) that is/are causing problems? Sure, it's not ideal to completely kill off a core (aside from the garbage E-cores), but I'm just asking in theory.


----------



## jomama22

ObviousCough said:


> I'm using an Optimus Foundation block in a custom loop, at 1.33v i shouldn't have a core hitting 91c during a 10 minute run of R23. 10900k was pulling all the power at 5.5Ghz and the temps were very manageable Intel Core i9 10900K @ 5500 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


"1.33v" is pretty arbitrary here. What board? Is it die sense? Socket sense? LLC? Just the set voltage and not vcore? How much power is being pulled?

If it's any consolation, when testing 5.2/4.0/42x a while back, 1.34 set, ~1.51 get, LLC 4, was ~260w or so. Package temp maxed at 73 over 15 minutes, max core around 74. Ambient was 20-21. This was using an Optimus foundation as well, 2x360 rads in its own loop.


----------



## jomama22

bscool said:


> Do you know of anyone else that delidded or direct die? When I test I see a core to core difference of between 11-15c depending on load and vcore.
> 
> Here he delidded and direct die and still 12c difference at 1:21
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems is more to the architecture and die layout if direct die still sees such variance.


Said it here before, but I tested quite a few chips and only 1 had all cores be nearly identical interms of temperature through r23, was a super cool chip in general (about 5C less package temp at same voltages compared to every other chip).

Probably has to do with different leakages for each core and the actual stress being run. Running a memory stress like tm5 or occt mem will have the cores nearly identical given the same workload, so I presume there is a priority given to some cores by the thread director and/or windows.


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> Is it possible to disable individual cores like the one(s) that is/are causing problems? Sure, it's not ideal to completely kill off a core (aside from the garbage E-cores), but I'm just asking in theory.


I dont know. Never looked into it.


----------



## Ichirou

jomama22 said:


> Said it here before, but I tested quite a few chips and only 1 had all cores be nearly identical interms of temperature through r23, was a super cool chip in general (about 5C less package temp at same voltages compared to every other chip).
> 
> Probably has to do with different leakages for each core and the actual stress being run. Running a memory stress like tm5 or occt mem will have the cores nearly identical given the same workload, so I presume there is a priority given to some cores by the thread director and/or windows.


This is what I imagine as well. There will always be certain cores being pushed harder depending on workload, which might be why there are temperature deltas between cores. I wouldn't be surprised with something like a +10C difference, but 15-20C on a single core, maybe. Hence, it might be advisable to deliberately clock down that specific core, or maybe disable it altogether.


----------



## jomama22

Ichirou said:


> This is what I imagine as well. There will always be certain cores being pushed harder depending on workload, which might be why there are temperature deltas between cores. I wouldn't be surprised with something like a +10C difference, but 15-20C on a single core, maybe. Hence, it might be advisable to deliberately clock down that specific core, or maybe disable it altogether.


Meh, losing a full core isn't going to be worth it vs just reducing an oc by 100mhz if necessary.


----------



## Dinnzy

What do you guys think of this bad boy, I got her her to pass r23 at auto adaptive llc 2 55,53,51, no luck with 52 ;d


----------



## rulik006

CallMeODZ said:


> does anyone here even know someone this has happened to?


yes, on big russian channel Pro-HiTech
Their Maximus Z690 Hero turned into brick silently, without burnout


----------



## opt33

per this video all burned boards (pic right) have that one capacitor on backwards with polarity reversed.


----------



## LionAlonso

People here told about standoffs.
seems its asus fail....


----------



## ObviousCough

jomama22 said:


> "1.33v" is pretty arbitrary here. What board? Is it die sense? Socket sense? LLC? Just the set voltage and not vcore? How much power is being pulled?
> 
> If it's any consolation, when testing 5.2/4.0/42x a while back, 1.34 set, ~1.51 get, LLC 4, was ~260w or so. Package temp maxed at 73 over 15 minutes, max core around 74. Ambient was 20-21. This was using an Optimus foundation as well, 2x360 rads in its own loop.


DigitALL power is all [Auto]


















another 10 minute run was done after rotating the block 180 here's the info for that one










and here's a 3rd run screenshot for good measure













edit: here's my 10900k going balls out at 5.5GHz


----------



## CallMeODZ

if you buy the new O11 dynamic evo, you can mount the motherboard upside down and the capacitor will be in the right orientation = win?
joke. i feel sorry for all the z690 hero users who have hardtube :'(


----------



## Hfhjfg

ObviousCough said:


> DigitALL power is all [Auto]
> View attachment 2539920
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> another 10 minute run was done after rotating the block 180 here's the info for that one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and here's a 3rd run screenshot for good measure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: here's my 10900k going balls out at 5.5GHz


SA voltage looks extremely high. You probably can run it 1.1v with these settings.


----------



## bscool

Hfhjfg said:


> SA voltage looks extremely high. You probably can run it 1.1v with these settings.


he is on ddr4 gear 1. No way 1.1v will work at those clocks on z690 ddr4.


----------



## Hfhjfg

bscool said:


> he is on ddr4 gear 1. No way 1.1v will work at those clocks on z690 ddr4.


I run DDR4-3800 cl14 with 1.1 without any problems. Stable in MT5. 4000 is not so far from it. 1.1-1.2 should work fine.


----------



## bscool

Hfhjfg said:


> I run DDR4-3800 cl14 with 1.1 without any problems. Stable in MT5. 4000 is not so far from it. 1.1-1.2 should work fine.


With tight sub timings? What z690 MB? DR b die? that is good if you can. I cant run that low at 4000+ DR b die with tight subs. I have tested a lot. Strix d4

Sr can run lower voltages. Post some screenshot and benches. always interesting to see.


----------



## Hfhjfg

bscool said:


> With tight sub timings? What MB? DR b die? that is good if you can. I cant run that low at 4000+ DR b die with tight subs. I have tested a lot. Strix d4
> 
> Sr can run lower voltages.


MB is TUF Gaming, DR b-die 14-14-14-28 tRFC-280 tREFI-32000. Two sticks on 1.5 voltage.


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> One day... One day...


Dang z790 will be out by the time you get that  . I thought your post ment 1 day. I just looked at tracking again and..........nope


----------



## LegendaryAura

LionAlonso said:


> How much is your sp?


Using an MSI board so no SP score. This one is solid though. I haven't really pushed it yet because I don't have time but I'll figure out its limits eventually.


ObviousCough said:


> I'm using an Optimus Foundation block in a custom loop, at 1.33v i shouldn't have a core hitting 91c during a 10 minute run of R23. 10900k was pulling all the power at 5.5Ghz and the temps were very manageable Intel Core i9 10900K @ 5500 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


I'm using the Velocity^2 block and at 1.34V I hit 95C (on core 5) with just one 360 PE rad. Really not sure we can do much better on ambient cooling. My core 1 peaked at 82C in that same test so there is definitely something weird going on with the layout.


jomama22 said:


> "1.33v" is pretty arbitrary here. What board? Is it die sense? Socket sense? LLC? Just the set voltage and not vcore? How much power is being pulled?
> 
> If it's any consolation, when testing 5.2/4.0/42x a while back, 1.34 set, ~1.51 get, LLC 4, was ~260w or so. Package temp maxed at 73 over 15 minutes, max core around 74. Ambient was 20-21. This was using an Optimus foundation as well, 2x360 rads in its own loop.


Really not sure what to make of this, I have similar ambient temps and similar power draw but my package maxes out around 95C in R23. There's no way the block alone and a second RAD is decreasing temps by 20C.


----------



## bscool

LegendaryAura said:


> Using an MSI board so no SP score. This one is solid though. I haven't really pushed it yet because I don't have time but I'll figure out its limits eventually.
> 
> I'm using the Velocity^2 block and at 1.34V I hit 95C (on core 5) with just one 360 PE rad. Really not sure we can do much better on ambient cooling. My core 1 peaked at 82C in that same test so there is definitely something weird going on with the layout.
> 
> Really not sure what to make of this, I have similar ambient temps and similar power draw but my package maxes out around 95C in R23. There's no way the block alone and a second RAD is decreasing temps by 20C.


It sounds like you have contact issues. I get better temps with an AIO.

Whoops r20 screenshot. I thought it was cb23.

Edit added r23


----------



## LegendaryAura

bscool said:


> It sounds like you have contact issues. I get better temps with an AIO.
> 
> Whoops r20 screenshot. I thought it was cb23.
> 
> Edit added r23


Lol not sure why everyone says this...as if mounting a cooler is rocket science. I tried a supremacy block with their 1700 kit and the velocity^2 block with their "ez mount" system. Sent pics to EKWB and had a full convo with them and everything. Nothing more I can do.


----------



## bscool

LegendaryAura said:


> Lol not sure why everyone says this...as if mounting a cooler is rocket science. I tried a supremacy block with their 1700 kit and the velocity^2 block with their "ez mount" system. Sent pics to EKWB and had a full convo with them and everything. Nothing more I can do.


Well when AIO is outperforming your EK block something is wrong. As long as you are ok with your temps is all that matters. 🙃


----------



## HiLuckyB

Some CPU's are just soldered better than others, Not much you can do with that other than delid.


----------



## LegendaryAura

bscool said:


> Well when AIO is outperforming your EK block something is wrong. As long as you are ok with your temps is all that matters. 🙃


I mean I'm not sure what you're suggesting I do when you say "contact issues". Pushing down on the block doesn't change temps at all and I'm definitely closer to over tightening than I am to not tightening it enough.


----------



## bscool

LegendaryAura said:


> I mean I'm not sure what you're suggesting I do when you say "contact issues". Pushing down on the block doesn't change temps at all and I'm definitely closer to over tightening than I am to not tightening it enough.


When you remove the block and you look at the cpu and block. you can tell from the contact pattern if it is good or not making good contact.

Ex at 8:39 




The new EK velocity 2 is much larger than most blocks maybe it hits something on the MB? not sure but you should get better temps than i do with a $100 AIO.


----------



## LegendaryAura

bscool said:


> When you remove the block and you look at the cpu and block. you can tell from the contact pattern if it is good or not making good contact.
> 
> Ex at 8:39
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The new EK velocity 2 is much larger than most blocks maybe it hits something on the MB? not sure but you should get better temps than i do with a $100 AIO.


In that same video he shows that mounting pressure (abysmal mounting pressure btw) only changed temps by 5 degree C. Mine are definitely much tighter than that. Even then my idles are in the low 20s, gaming temps are in the 50s/60s (BF5 drawing 130W...while the rad is getting heat soaked by a 3090). If it was a poor mount I'd expect those temps to be way worse.


----------



## Ichirou

Hasn't there been people talking about how the IHS isn't perfectly flat, and how Core 5 in particular gets hot as hell?


----------



## bscool

.


LegendaryAura said:


> In that same video he shows that mounting pressure (abysmal mounting pressure btw) only changed temps by 5 degree C. Mine are definitely much tighter than that. Even then my idles are in the low 20s, gaming temps are in the 50s/60s (BF5 drawing 130W...while the rad is getting heat soaked by a 3090). If it was a poor mount I'd expect those temps to be way worse.


When I first setup my 12900k I was using Raystorm block and it didn't have enough contact pressure. I dropped 15c+ adding switching to the lga 1700 mount on AIO.

My idle and lighter load temps were fine. It is r20 and r23 that put high loads on I saw the biggest difference of 15-20c lower temps.


----------



## Eitan

bscool said:


> It sounds like you have contact issues. I get better temps with an AIO.
> 
> Whoops r20 screenshot. I thought it was cb23.
> 
> Edit added r23


What AIO are you using? Some of them have surprisingly decent peak performance, but they sound like a 747 taking off.


----------



## bscool

Eitan said:


> What AIO are you using? Some of them have surprisingly decent peak performance, but they sound like a 747 taking off.


Arctic 2 420. I bought used from Amazon.


----------



## Mad1137

I m using z690 hero since start , no issue . Or I should start worry ?)


----------



## Luggage

LegendaryAura said:


> In that same video he shows that mounting pressure (abysmal mounting pressure btw) only changed temps by 5 degree C. Mine are definitely much tighter than that. Even then my idles are in the low 20s, gaming temps are in the 50s/60s (BF5 drawing 130W...while the rad is getting heat soaked by a 3090). If it was a poor mount I'd expect those temps to be way worse.


Have you read this? Cooling issues with Intel’s Alder Lake - Problems with the LGA-1700 socket and a possible workaround | igor'sLAB


----------



## Eitan

bscool said:


> Arctic 2 420. I bought used from Amazon.


They're usually pretty quiet, aren't they? If they're quiet, I might grab one for my 12900k system instead of getting a block and pulling the custom loop out of my AM4 system.


----------



## bscool

Eitan said:


> They're usually pretty quiet, aren't they? If they're quiet, I might grab one for my 12900k system instead of getting a block and pulling the custom loop out of my AM4 system.


Yep I am impressed. I first got into watercooling in 2001 when we used heater cores, transmission coolers from cars as the radiator. Been water cooling since. Finally decided to try AIOs the last year or so. First couple were EK 360 AIO (I used in builds for other people) and they are good but loud fans at full tilt. This Arctic is quiet. I paid around $100 and can't complain.

Tubes are long enough I can mount it in the front of a Fractal Torrent with tubes down and still clear a 3080 ti FTW3. With tubes up it made noise as air circulated from time to time.


----------



## leonman44

Guys has anyone tested in gaming with pcores only vs pcores + e cores ?

Is there any noticeably difference in the stability of the framerates ?


----------



## rulik006

Mad1137 said:


> I m using z690 hero since start , no issue . Or I should start worry ?)


If capacitor is reversed, yes
show us a picture of yours


----------



## MikeS3000

Eitan said:


> They're usually pretty quiet, aren't they? If they're quiet, I might grab one for my 12900k system instead of getting a block and pulling the custom loop out of my AM4 system.


The Arctic LF II 420 is quiet and really good for an AIO. I've been using one since August. My 12700k pulls about 230w peak and the CPU package maxes around 81 degrees running CB23.


----------



## Ichirou

leonman44 said:


> Guys has anyone tested in gaming with pcores only vs pcores + e cores ?
> 
> Is there any noticeably difference in the stability of the framerates ?


P-core-only is virtually better in every conceivable way. The E-cores are a terrible early adoption gimmick.


----------



## leonman44

Ichirou said:


> P-core-only is virtually better in every conceivable way. The E-cores are a terrible early adoption gimmick.


What about if I am gaming and have opened in the background other programs like discord , shouldn’t these tasks get managed by e-cores only and the game itself by p-cores maintaining higher performance can pcores only ? Or it doesn’t work at all this way ?


----------



## LionAlonso

leonman44 said:


> What about if I am gaming and have opened in the background other programs like discord , shouldn’t these tasks get managed by e-cores only and the game itself by p-cores maintaining higher performance can pcores only ? Or it doesn’t work at all this way ?


Yeah but only disc wont be any difference.
If u have several programs it can make a difference


----------



## snakeeyes111

Step by step


----------



## skullbringer

Ichirou said:


> Hasn't there been people talking about how the IHS isn't perfectly flat, and how Core 5 in particular gets hot as hell?


yup, depends on how much your socket and ihs bend under installation pressure









Cooling issues with Intel’s Alder Lake - Problems with the LGA-1700 socket and a possible workaround | igor'sLAB


Badly fitting coolers, too low performance with actually good waterblocks and bent CPUs – meanwhile not only the feedback of the readers is piling up, but also very similar reports from the board…




www.igorslab.de





on my 2 china chips p-core 3 is the toastiest boy, with p-core 5 1-2 °C behind


----------



## EarlZ

skullbringer said:


> yup, depends on how much your socket and ihs bend under installation pressure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cooling issues with Intel’s Alder Lake - Problems with the LGA-1700 socket and a possible workaround | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> Badly fitting coolers, too low performance with actually good waterblocks and bent CPUs – meanwhile not only the feedback of the readers is piling up, but also very similar reports from the board…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on my 2 china chips p-core 3 is the toastiest boy, with p-core 5 1-2 °C behind


This makes me worried! Though the EKWB AIO LGA 1700 bracket kit is made up of metal it is not as huge as the one on igor's lab and has a screw in bolt instead of welded. I am looking at getting the Asus Z690-A Strix D4


----------



## geriatricpollywog

EarlZ said:


> This makes me worried! Though the EKWB AIO LGA 1700 bracket kit is made up of metal it is not as huge as the one on igor's lab and has a screw in bolt instead of welded. I am looking at getting the Asus Z690-A Strix D4


The EK 1700 bracket is a thick piece of steel. It is much thicker than the EK 1200 bracket. The Optimus block doesn’t even have a bracket.


----------



## WebsterRKL

geriatricpollywog said:


> The EK 1700 bracket is a thick piece of steel. It is much thicker than the EK 1200 bracket. The Optimus block doesn’t even have a bracket.


I'm loving my new Quantum Magnitude black nickel plexi "custom aesthetic" so very much (EKWB doesn't sell it that way).

Extremely fast typewriter builds also need lovin'


----------



## geriatricpollywog

WebsterRKL said:


> I'm loving my new Quantum Magnitude black nickel plexi "custom aesthetic" so very much (EKWB doesn't sell it that way).
> 
> Extremely fast typewriter builds also need lovin'
> 
> View attachment 2540141
> 
> View attachment 2540142
> 
> View attachment 2540143


I tried a plexi top, but metal is sturdier when plugging in the hoses with QDCs.















  








[No title]




__
geriatricpollywog


__
Nov 21, 2017












  








[No title]




__
geriatricpollywog


__
Nov 21, 2017


----------



## 2500k_2

Is ddr5 so bad? 🤣


----------



## xarot

2500k_2 said:


> Is ddr5 so bad? 🤣


Haha. I was thinking about this idea a while ago if anyone would do it, since my friend had some memory converters with his Pentium 75 already back in the day.


----------



## ogider

btw..if someone need for bench. 3x tomb raider games on epic platform for free today


----------



## GQNerd

Not bad, especially on an MSI board










*12900k*
Pcores - 5.3
Ecores - 4.1
Cache - 4.3
avg 1.29V

*MSI Pro Z690-A D4*
LL- 1
Bios 1.15

*GSkill Trident Z (4266C17)*
Running at 4000mhz C14, Gear 1, CR2
1.57V
SA - 1.375v

*EVGA 360 CLC AIO w/1700 brackets*
Debating whether or not to replace it with my EKWB block, but this is already performing lovely
_PS. No chiller was used, just a cracked window. (15c outside) - When the heat is on, CPU normally hits max temp of 95c (still not bad for an AIO)_

Just got my Strix Z690A board in, and reallllly hesitant to tear this down... BUT, I wanna see the SP rating


----------



## Hfhjfg

Miguelios said:


> Not bad, especially on an MSI board
> 
> View attachment 2540204
> 
> 
> *12900k*
> Pcores - 5.3
> Ecores - 4.1
> Cache - 4.3
> avg 1.29V
> 
> *MSI Pro Z690-A D4*
> LL- 1
> Bios 1.15
> 
> *GSkill Trident Z (4266C17)*
> Running at 4000mhz C14, Gear 1, CR2
> 1.57V
> SA - 1.375v
> 
> *EVGA 360 CLC AIO w/1700 brackets*
> Debating whether or not to replace it with my EKWB block, but this is already performing lovely
> _PS. No chiller was used, just a cracked window. (15c outside) - When the heat is on, CPU normally hits max temp of 95c (still not bad for an AIO)_
> 
> Just got my Strix Z690A board in, and reallllly hesitant to tear this down... BUT, I wanna see the SP rating


Is it "sync all cores" mode?
Static voltage or VF curve based?


----------



## GQNerd

Hfhjfg said:


> Is it "sync all cores" mode?
> Static voltage or VF curve based?


Sync all cores, manual voltage set, but kept it Adaptive
Interestingly, I set 1.3V in the BIOS, but it reports 1.37V in the OS
So I applied a -80mv with XTU


----------



## HiLuckyB

Miguelios said:


> Sync all cores, manual voltage set, but kept it Adaptive
> Interestingly, I set 1.3V in the BIOS, but it reports 1.37V in the OS
> So I applied a -80mv with XTU


My Z690 Carbon WiFi does the same. Adaptive 1.3v ends up much closer to 1.4v. I have to use a -110 to get 1.275-1.305v in windows.


----------



## Simkin

Finaly after a couple of months, my 12900K, Z690 apex and G.Skill 6000 CL36 is up and running.

My SP is 81, so its not the best, but i want to try to aim for 5.1 Ghz all core and maybe 3.9 on the E-Cores - anyone who would like to kick me in the right direction what settings to put in the bios? Long time since i have OC any now, but i played alot around with my 5960X so im not a total stranger to OC.


----------



## snakeeyes111

Someome know error 15 in tm5 ? Voltage or Timing? Detected on cycle 7.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

skullbringer said:


> yup, depends on how much your socket and ihs bend under installation pressure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cooling issues with Intel’s Alder Lake - Problems with the LGA-1700 socket and a possible workaround | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> Badly fitting coolers, too low performance with actually good waterblocks and bent CPUs – meanwhile not only the feedback of the readers is piling up, but also very similar reports from the board…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on my 2 china chips p-core 3 is the toastiest boy, with p-core 5 1-2 °C behind


Did you ever get your memory OC reboot issue sorted out? Bios?


----------



## ThinbinJim

skullbringer said:


> yup, depends on how much your socket and ihs bend under installation pressure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cooling issues with Intel’s Alder Lake - Problems with the LGA-1700 socket and a possible workaround | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> Badly fitting coolers, too low performance with actually good waterblocks and bent CPUs – meanwhile not only the feedback of the readers is piling up, but also very similar reports from the board…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on my 2 china chips p-core 3 is the toastiest boy, with p-core 5 1-2 °C behind


Interesting quirk regarding chips packaged in china. My p-core 3 is 3C hotter than p-core 5 in p95 avx.


----------



## Arni90

cletus-cassidy said:


> Did you ever get your memory OC reboot issue sorted out? Bios?


CPU standby and PLL termination to 1.20V in tweakers paradise and Digi+ VRM


----------



## Nizzen

Arni90 said:


> CPU standby and PLL termination to 1.20V in tweakers paradise and Digi+ VRM


What setting did you set that helped abit on lower Vcore? 
Can't remember...


----------



## Cpfan1

Not really releated but i know that someone in this thread can answer me on this:

In case of vccio and vccsa, should i trust bios or hwinfo? Hwinfo shows 1.408 for sa and i have 1.37 in bios. Motherboard im using is the maximus apex xii.


----------



## Nizzen

Cpfan1 said:


> Not really releated but i know that someone in this thread can answer me on this:
> 
> In case of vccio and vccsa, should i trust bios or hwinfo? Hwinfo shows 1.408 for sa and i have 1.37 in bios. Motherboard im using is the maximus apex xii.


Maybe vdrop 
I trust hwinfo enough 

What I don't trust is other than myself


----------



## leonman44

Is my capacitor soldered ok ? It seems different


----------



## Arni90

Cpfan1 said:


> Not really releated but i know that someone in this thread can answer me on this:
> 
> In case of vccio and vccsa, should i trust bios or hwinfo? Hwinfo shows 1.408 for sa and i have 1.37 in bios. Motherboard im using is the maximus apex xii.


BIOS for what you set.
HWiNFO to see if there's no massive discrepancy between SET and GET (20% or more).

If you want to know what voltage is actually applied, you need soldering skills, and a very good oscilloscope.


----------



## Arni90

Nizzen said:


> What setting did you set that helped abit on lower Vcore?
> Can't remember...


Core and ring PLL voltage to 1.005V, but it was just a hair. Nothing significant


----------



## fortecosi

leonman44 said:


> View attachment 2540322
> 
> Is my capacitor soldered ok ? It seems different


The polarity is right, IMO you are fine.


----------



## Simkin

G.Skill 6000 CL36 - XMP 1 bsod on startup

XMP 2 boots, stable for a little while, tried a quick BF4 launch and Aida64 bench - but then it started bsod, reboot and bsod again in Windows (Windows 11) had to set ram back to stock.

i usually don’t use XMP, but this does not seem promising ?

Think I’m gonna send back my SP81 12900K and hope for a better one.


----------



## Nizzen

Simkin said:


> G.Skill 6000 CL36 - XMP 1 bsod on startup
> 
> XMP 2 boots, stable for a little while, tried a quick BF4 launch and Aida64 bench - but then it started bsod, reboot and bsod again in Windows (Windows 11) had to set ram back to stock.
> 
> i usually don’t use XMP, but this does not seem promising ?
> 
> Think I’m gonna send back my SP81 12900K and hope for a better one.


0046 bios?


----------



## satinghostrider

I tried both my 6000c36 kits and 6000c40 kits and 0046 still has issues. I don't know why every boot is so inconsistent. Surely my SP84 CPU can't be the cause of memory failing TM5 on even XMP. 

Tried BIOS 0010, 0015, 0811 and 0046. All doesn't work consistently and properly for me. Leaving it at Jedec spec is the only thing that works. I've got a RAM cooler so heat is not the issue. Moreover, it's always failing within the first 2 to 3 mins.

Not sure where to go from here.


----------



## Nizzen

satinghostrider said:


> I tried both my 6000c36 kits and 6000c40 kits and 0046 still has issues. I don't know why every boot is so inconsistent. Surely my SP84 CPU can't be the cause of memory failing TM5 on even XMP.
> 
> Tried BIOS 0010, 0015, 0811 and 0046. All doesn't work consistently and properly for me. Leaving it at Jedec spec is the only thing that works. I've got a RAM cooler so heat is not the issue. Moreover, it's always failing within the first 2 to 3 mins.
> 
> Not sure where to go from here.


Try manuel VccSA = 0.95v


----------



## dragn09

i compared the die sense voltage on an apex screenshot with the result of dividing the power draw by the amps from the asus embedded controller readings and its exactly the same. so i guess i can use that same method on my socket sense strix-a to know the true voltage?


----------



## Simkin

Nizzen said:


> 0046 bios?


0811


----------



## Nizzen

Simkin said:


> 0811


Try the new testbios 








ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-0046.rar


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## digitalfrost

I found an interesting condition that showed me my overclocks were not quite as stable as I tought. I use madVR with NGU scaling HOW TO - Set up madVR for Kodi DSPlayer & External Players. Even on low settings it puts quite a bit of load on both CPU and GPU.

Sometimes I have multiple streams running at the same time, some TV series in the foreground and a twitch stream in the background. My GPU will use ~100W and the CPU will consume ~60W when playing 4k.

This heats up the case by a bit over time and I've had the video player crash. System is stable otherwise, hours of gaming, multiple runs of Geekbench etc, everything works, just not this.


----------



## satinghostrider

Nizzen said:


> Try manuel VccSA = 0.95v


Tried 0.95v-1v. No go.


----------



## marti69

loocking to buy a high sp 12900k (sp 103 or so) if someone is selling plz pm


----------



## TomCom205

marti69 said:


> loocking to buy a high sp 12900k (sp 103 or so) if someone is selling plz pm


Over all SP103 Ranking not seen yet. 
I was also trying to get a better CPU but out of 7 I had only SP94 and SP88 and the SP88 was better so far reaching a higher Frequency.
I guess still very hard to find.


----------



## owikh84

TomCom205 said:


> Over all SP103 Ranking not seen yet.
> I was also trying to get a better CPU but out of 7 I had only SP94 and SP88 and the SP88 was better so far reaching a higher Frequency.
> I guess still very hard to find.


Let me guess, the SP88 chip has higher P-core SP?


----------



## TomCom205

owikh84 said:


> Let me guess, the SP88 chip has higher P-core SP?


Yes but "only" SP97 at PCores and SP71 at the ECores.


----------



## Nizzen

TomCom205 said:


> Yes but "only" SP97 at PCores and SP71 at the ECores.


Sp 88 is atleast top 10 bin. Maybe top 5.


----------



## domdtxdissar

snipped from Igorslab :

*Intel completely disables AVX-512 on Alder Lake after all – Questionable interpretation of “efficiency”*

Intel is now set to disable “AVX-512” completely on all Alder Lake CPUs with an upcoming microcode update in new BIOS releases. Mainboard manufacturers were able to make the supposedly disabled instruction set available at launch, which resulted in a significant performance increase for the P-cores of the new CPUs. Now Intel is tightening the noose completely after all and, according to our sources, has instructed motherboard manufacturers to completely disable the “unsupported” feature.

Just in time for the launch of the new smaller CPU SKUs and motherboard chipsets at CES next week, all existing Z690 motherboards are supposed to completely disable the AVX-512 instruction set via a BIOS update. So far, we can only speculate about the motives. However, it would be logical that Intel would want to artificially create a sales argument for upcoming workstation and server products. This is because applications in the enterprise sector in particular often benefit the most from the acceleration provided by the AVX-512 instruction set. Actually completely capable “consumer” hardware should, if Intel has its way, no longer be a valid option here. To protect our sources, we do not wish to name them.


----------



## sugi0lover

12900K SP107.
Not sure this is SP bug. but the poster said it's real (P SP 120, E SP 82).
Unfortuantely, he doesn't want to sell it and there is no info except that he said all cores P 5.5, E 4.3, Cache 4.5 passed Cine 30min at 1.26v (llc7)


----------



## skullbringer

cletus-cassidy said:


> Did you ever get your memory OC reboot issue sorted out? Bios?


oh yeah, it actually had nothing to do with the memory oc, it just randomly happened less frequently when I raised the SA at first, which later turned out to be a false flag.

after all it was the Vcore VRM switching frequency set to 800 kHz, which somehow causes the VRM to completely shut off even during light loads like memtesting and really low temps. some other folks were having simlar issue with phase mode settings and also on strixx boards iirc. lowering the fsw to 700 kHz resolved the issue for me on the apex. on other maximus or strixx boards you might just want to leave all these settings on auto.

the other issue with random resets during memory training was actually to do with too high auto mc voltage at xmp 1, but shamino fixed that already in 0811


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> 12900K SP107.
> Not sure this is SP bug. but the poster said it's real (P SP 120, E SP 82).
> Unfortuantely, he doesn't want to sell it and there is no info except that he said all cores P 5.5, E 4.3, Cache 4.5 passed Cine 30min at 1.26v (llc7)
> View attachment 2540484


----------



## dante`afk

sugi0lover said:


> 12900K SP107.
> Not sure this is SP bug. but the poster said it's real (P SP 120, E SP 82).
> Unfortuantely, he doesn't want to sell it and there is no info except that he said all cores P 5.5, E 4.3, Cache 4.5 passed Cine 30min at 1.26v (llc7)
> View attachment 2540484


doesn't want to give details, secretive on his supposed superchip, sounds about right.


----------



## Ichirou

Side question since I'm planning to give away my Z390 system to the wife after the Z690 one is in place:
For long-term LLC stability, which is better? 1.34V @ LLC6, or 1.30V @ LLC7?
They both give me the same maximum Vcore used. (I can also try finding out what Vcore is necessary for LLC5, but I figured I'd pool opinions first.)
Maybe @Falkentyne could pitch in an opinion as well. I don't really know too much about the specifics of LLC.


----------



## Electrosoft

TomCom205 said:


> Over all SP103 Ranking not seen yet.
> I was also trying to get a better CPU but out of 7 I had only SP94 and SP88 and the SP88 was better so far reaching a higher Frequency.
> I guess still very hard to find.


Similar situation, Tested 4 (SP81, SP82, SP89, SP90) and the SP82 was better than the SP89 by far. SP90 outclassed all of them in every single way though but if I only had the SP82 and SP89 I would have kept the SP82 and jettisoned the SP89.


----------



## AvengedRobix

Satisfied: Intel Core i9 12900K @ 5500 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR (x86.fr)


----------



## marti69

AvengedRobix said:


> Satisfied: Intel Core i9 12900K @ 5500 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR (x86.fr)


nice is the aorus master any good in memory oc?actualy im using a maximus z690 hero but i have another z690 aorus xtreme i have not test yet.


----------



## Ichirou

marti69 said:


> nice is the aorus master any good in memory oc?actualy im using a maximus z690 hero but i have another z690 aorus xtreme i have not test yet.


Every Gigabyte motherboard sucks for the Z690 platform in terms of RAM overclocking.


----------



## marti69

Ichirou said:


> Every Gigabyte motherboard sucks for the Z690 platform in terms of RAM overclocking.


thats why i didnt put the aorus in my system but i saw on hes validation thats hes runing corsair rams at 6200 cl 32 its quite good looks same as asus results.


----------



## AvengedRobix

marti69 said:


> thats why i didnt put the aorus in my system but i saw on hes validation thats hes runing corsair rams at 6200 cl 32 its quite good looks same as asus results.


I've Vengeance 5600 C36 and run fine 6200 32-36-36 1.36V for daily.. For bench do some test on 6800 34-36-36 but not full stable


----------



## marti69

AvengedRobix said:


> I've Vengeance 5600 C36 and run fine 6200 32-36-36 1.36V for daily.. For bench do some test on 6800 34-36-36 but not full stable


wow thats impressive for a gigabyte board are your vengeance hynix chips ?


----------



## AvengedRobix

marti69 said:


> wow thats impressive for a gigabyte board are your vengeance hynix chips ?


no.. Samsung


----------



## Hfhjfg

Tuned my 12900k to stably run 5.3Ghz in CB23 at 1.27(die sense) / 1.36(socket sense). LLC=5, AC_LL=0.12.
e-cores=41, ring=39.
Cores profile 55-55-55-55-54-54-53-53
vCore for 5.5 is 1.39 (die sense) / 1.41 (socket sense)
CPU is fully stable in P95 AVX / CB23 / GB5 and in my favorite stress test - Android Studio code compilation 😁
Actually 5 minutes of compiling code in Android Studio can find instability even then P95 and GB5 are both stable. It produces not a such high load (only up to 200watts), but sometimes it switches cores frequencies like a crazy from 55 to 8 back and forth up to 10 times in a second.
Now goal is to try run 1 core at 57 + 2 cores at 56 Prime95 stable. Also don't want to exceed 1.47 volts die sense even on light load.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

skullbringer said:


> oh yeah, it actually had nothing to do with the memory oc, it just randomly happened less frequently when I raised the SA at first, which later turned out to be a false flag.
> 
> after all it was the Vcore VRM switching frequency set to 800 kHz, which somehow causes the VRM to completely shut off even during light loads like memtesting and really low temps. some other folks were having simlar issue with phase mode settings and also on strixx boards iirc. lowering the fsw to 700 kHz resolved the issue for me on the apex. on other maximus or strixx boards you might just want to leave all these settings on auto.
> 
> the other issue with random resets during memory training was actually to do with too high auto mc voltage at xmp 1, but shamino fixed that already in 0811


I was also using 800khz switching and that did it. Repped!!!


----------



## IronAge

Hfhjfg said:


> Tuned my 12900k to stably run 5.3Ghz in CB23 at 1.27(die sense) / 1.36(socket sense). LLC=5, AC_LL=0.12.


IMHO LLC5 is no good for lifetime of your CPU especially when you have extremely volatile load on different cores.


----------



## Frozburn

IronAge said:


> IMHO LLC5 is no good for lifetime of your CPU especially when you have extremely volatile load on different cores.


What's a good number for LLC? Used 7 (or maybe 6, think it was 7) on my 8700K since launch, 0 degradation. I have no real understanding of LLC.


----------



## IronAge

Depends on vendor, there is less overshoot with lower LLC levels and increased overshoot starting with LLC5 on Asus Mobos.

Asus recommends using LLC4 for OC on Alder Lake, i would not go higher for daily usage.


----------



## digitalfrost

IronAge said:


> Asus recommends using LLC4 for OC on Alder Lake, i would not go higher for daily usage.


Got a source for that?


----------



## Frozburn

IronAge said:


> Depends on vendor, there is less overshoot with lower LLC levels and increased overshoot starting with LLC5 on Asus Mobos.
> 
> Asus recommends using LLC4 for OC on Alder Lake, i would not go higher for daily usage.


Using an MSI board atm and the LLC is on auto. Will mess around with that next.


----------



## digitalfrost

Frozburn said:


> Using an MSI board atm and the LLC is on auto. Will mess around with that next.


Be aware that MSI LLC8 is ASUS LLC3 and so on.


----------



## opt33

Also MSI unifyx with most recent bios default LLC auto = no vdroop, ie mode 3. Setting 1.28 vcore bios (vccsense), 51 cpu, using cinebench R23 load to test.

LLC setting idle vs CB load
auto/3 = 1.28 idle, 1.288 load
mode 4 = 1.272 idle, 1.267 load
mode 5 = 1.272 idle, 1.262 load
mode 6 = 1.270 idle, 1.205 load (im using mode 6 as seems most reasonable and similar to what I had on asus hero board llc4)
mode 7 = 1.256 idle 1.159 load.

The progression of llc on this board seems like still in beta stage. didnt test mode 1,2 or 8.


----------



## Hfhjfg

IronAge said:


> IMHO LLC5 is no good for lifetime of your CPU especially when you have extremely volatile load on different cores.


I have max vCore around 1.4, so overshoot shouldn't be a huge problem, it's still LLC-5, not LLC-8 
The reason why I use LLC-5, not LLC-1 or LLC-2 is that LLC-1 -> LLC-3 work good only on top level motherboards. On TUF Gaming only LLC-4++ are usable for overclocking.
For example, LLC-1 on TUF requires 1.5 volts for lite load to be stable at 1.28 full load, while the LLC-5 don't go over 1.39 volts under the same settings.




opt33 said:


> Also MSI unifyx with most recent bios default LLC auto = no vdroop, ie mode 3. Setting 1.28 vcore bios (vccsense), 51 cpu, using cinebench R23 load to test.
> 
> LLC setting idle vs CB load
> auto/3 = 1.28 idle, 1.288 load
> mode 4 = 1.272 idle, 1.267 load
> mode 5 = 1.272 idle, 1.262 load
> mode 6 = 1.270 idle, 1.205 load (im using mode 6 as seems most reasonable and similar to what I had on asus hero board llc4)
> mode 7 = 1.256 idle 1.159 load.
> 
> The progression of llc on this board seems like still in beta stage. didnt test mode 1,2 or 8.


Isn't MSI's vccsense is a some kind of improved socket sense?


----------



## opt33

Hfhjfg said:


> Isn't MSI's vccsense is a some kind of improved socket sense?


My first reaction was whoever set llc modes was high, but your point of vccsense being less accurate than Asus or simply software approximated on MSI is a more likely explanation.


----------



## Ichirou

digitalfrost said:


> Got a source for that?


On ASUS Z690, the LLC setting literally says "LLC 4 - BEST FOR OVERCLOCKING" or something like that, lol. It screams for you to choose it.
I guess ASUS devs personally tested Alder Lake overclocking thoroughly, and found that LLC 4 is overall the most consistent and safe.
But nobody's stopping you from going higher, I suppose.


----------



## digitalfrost

Ichirou said:


> On ASUS Z690, the LLC setting literally says "LLC 4 - BEST FOR OVERCLOCKING" or something like that, lol. It screams for you to choose it.


Thanks.

I have a question related to singlecore boost behaviour. I have my singlecore set to 5.4Ghz, however I rarely ever see that in HWiNFO as max frequency. Now, when I change from adaptive voltage to VF curve offset and I boost the VF11 voltage, it will boost much more readily, but ofc I also need more vcore.

I know it's stable, I can see it sometimes reaches 5.4 in HWiNFO but for example in the CPU-Z singlethread benchmark, it will only boost to 5.3Ghz.

So what is affecting this boost behaviour? Is my only chance to increase voltage unnecessarily high to get it there? Why does it willingly boost to 5.4 with more vcore? Surely it cannot be temperature as temp would be higher with more vcore.


----------



## gecko991

That is interesting.


----------



## Simkin

So far my 6000 kit (G.Skill 6000 CL36 Samsung ic) seems stable bumping the voltage up to 1.35v. Have done some small adjustment on the timings, but have seen others in here with similar timings with way lower latency (50s). Im running 36-36-36-55-91 1T and tRFC 445 but my latency is still over 70 and read/write/copy is maybe not as impressive either?

Any settings i should try to lover the latency?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

New results with my Z690 Apex and DDR5

Firestrike









Time Spy



















Just kidding its DDR4


----------



## Frozburn

geriatricpollywog said:


> New results with my Z690 Apex and DDR5
> 
> Firestrike
> 
> Time Spy
> 
> View attachment 2540732
> 
> 
> Just kidding its DDR4


I only get 354. What settings on cpu and ram? I use dual rank cl14 4000 and 5.4ghz. I assume ur e cores and hyperthreading are off? Trying to increase my fps more by adjusting the subtimings which helps


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Frozburn said:


> I only get 354. What settings on cpu and ram? I use dual rank cl14 4000 and 5.4ghz. I assume ur e cores and hyperthreading are off? Trying to increase my fps more by adjusting the subtimings which helps


Correct, HT off and E cores disabled.

5.6 ghz, 4190 14-15-15-28

354 is very good for your settings. Mine might not be fully optimized.


----------



## Frozburn

geriatricpollywog said:


> Correct, HT off and E cores disabled.
> 
> 5.6 ghz, 4180 14-15-15-28
> 
> 354 is very good for your settings. Mine might not be fully optimized.


Nice OC u got there. I wonder how much fps u get on 720p lowest


----------



## Antsu

geriatricpollywog said:


> Just kidding its DDR4


DDR4 gang stronk. This is with my very bad SP81 @ 5.4/5.1 RING and daily setting RAM.











Frozburn said:


> Nice OC u got there. I wonder how much fps u get on 720p lowest


This was with 101.0 BCLK = 5454Mhz CPU and 4174Mhz RAM.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Antsu said:


> DDR4 gang stronk. This is with my very bad SP81 @ 5.4/5.1 RING and daily setting RAM.
> View attachment 2540852
> 
> 
> 
> I think this was with 101.0 BCLK = 5454Mhz CPU and 4174Mhz RAM, but it might've been daily settings too, can't remember.
> View attachment 2540853


I was running 48 ring and haven't considered raising. More to come.

Your GPU is looking a bit winded there.


----------



## Frozburn

Antsu said:


> DDR4 gang stronk. This is with my very bad SP81 @ 5.4/5.1 RING and daily setting RAM.
> View attachment 2540852
> 
> 
> 
> This was with 101.0 BCLK = 5454Mhz CPU and 4174Mhz RAM.
> View attachment 2540853


Nice one. I see you are running Windows 10 20H1, most fps there? I am on latest 11 but can dual boot 20H1 to try. My game is also 449 version. Is the newer version better?


----------



## domdtxdissar

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478079758898446337
*Intel Core i9-12900KS up to 5.5 GHz boost clock?*

The company has just posted a mysterious picture on its social media, claiming that the 12th Gen Core (Alder Lake) CPUs are already topping the ‘best CPU’ lists and are already available. However, this is not the final word, as Intel teases ‘a next stop’ at *5.5 GHz*.

In other words, this might be the first tease of the upcoming factory binned chip which we mentioned last month. The company is working on a *Core i9-12900KS* CPU with all Performance-core boost frequency at *5.2 GHz.* This is exactly what we said in our article and this is exactly what the HWINFO screenshot posted by Intel appears to show.

Furthermore, we learn that the highest boost clock of the 12900KS would be *5.5 GHz*, which is a single-core frequency. Overall, this should be the fastest Alder Lake-S CPU that will be set to compete against the upcoming AMD Ryzen 6000 CPU series with 3D V-Cache.


----------



## domdtxdissar

Do you guys think they will have a hidden water-chiller running under the table, when they are demoing unit this time also? 🤣

Reading this almost like a panic move from Intel vs v-$, the very day before we get game-benchmarks and info about it.. 😇


----------



## dante`afk

yea nothing new here, given adequate cooling, every damn 12900k can do 5.2 allcore and 5.5-5.7 single core.


----------



## Hfhjfg

domdtxdissar said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1478079758898446337
> *Intel Core i9-12900KS up to 5.5 GHz boost clock?*
> 
> The company has just posted a mysterious picture on its social media, claiming that the 12th Gen Core (Alder Lake) CPUs are already topping the ‘best CPU’ lists and are already available. However, this is not the final word, as Intel teases ‘a next stop’ at *5.5 GHz*.
> 
> In other words, this might be the first tease of the upcoming factory binned chip which we mentioned last month. The company is working on a *Core i9-12900KS* CPU with all Performance-core boost frequency at *5.2 GHz.* This is exactly what we said in our article and this is exactly what the HWINFO screenshot posted by Intel appears to show.
> 
> Furthermore, we learn that the highest boost clock of the 12900KS would be *5.5 GHz*, which is a single-core frequency. Overall, this should be the fastest Alder Lake-S CPU that will be set to compete against the upcoming AMD Ryzen 6000 CPU series with 3D V-Cache.


Can't wait to get one. Expecting KS versions will work 5.3-5.4 no hassle all cores and 5.7-5.9 single core.


----------



## Nizzen

domdtxdissar said:


> Do you guys think they will have a hidden water-chiller running under the table, when they are demoing unit this time also? 🤣
> 
> Reading this almost like a panic move from Intel vs v-$, the very day before we get game-benchmarks and info about it.. 😇


Looks like you are trying pretty hard too with all your fans and window open 😆


----------



## LegendaryAura

bscool said:


> When you remove the block and you look at the cpu and block. you can tell from the contact pattern if it is good or not making good contact.
> 
> Ex at 8:39
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The new EK velocity 2 is much larger than most blocks maybe it hits something on the MB? not sure but you should get better temps than i do with a $100 AIO.


Just want to say I did a little investigation and...it was definitely a contact issue wow. Based on Igors article I assume my mobo was bending. I usually install my waterblocks in the case and haven't had a problem. This time I didn't even fully take out my mobo I just unscrewed the top half (4/8 screws) so that it could flex freely from my case and reinstalled the waterblock. Cinebench temps dropped by 10-12C. My temps aren't as ridiculous as yours but at 280W package being in the mid 80s sounds about right now. 

What led me to this suspicion is that i noticed my motherboard did not lay flat on my case standoffs (the top half was lifted like a concave shape). I just screwed them down anyway figuring the board would straighten itself out. Guess not. 

From now on I'll definitely be mounting my water blocks outside of the case first...


----------



## sugi0lover

This my friend has SP105 12900K for his bench PC and SP103 12900K for his daily PC.
Amazing result with SP105 on custom water cooling at cold weather~
















I scored 55 248 in Fire Strike


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com




















I scored 26 838 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> This my friend has SP105 12900K for his bench PC and SP103 12900K for his daily PC.
> Amazing result with SP105 on custom water cooling at cold weather~
> View attachment 2540948
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 55 248 in Fire Strike
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2540949
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I scored 26 838 in Time Spy
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, AMD Radeon RX 6900 XT x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.3dmark.com


Good data. It would appear Firestrike prefers DDR4, Time Spy prefers DDR5, and both prefer the 6900XT over the 3090. However, the Firestrike combined score is much higher on the 3090 than 6900XT.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

@sugi0lover can your friend test Firestrike using his CPU on a DDR4 board? His combined score should improve a lot. This makes me happy as it shows a potential gaming advantage for DDR4 when both the CPU and GPU are maxed out. Or perhaps the combined test just doesn’t like the 6900XT for some reason.


----------



## sugi0lover

geriatricpollywog said:


> @sugi0lover can your friend test Firestrike using his CPU on a DDR4 board? His combined score should improve a lot. This makes me happy as it shows a potential gaming advantage for DDR4 when both the CPU and GPU are maxed out. Or perhaps the combined test just doesn’t like the 6900XT for some reason.


Unfortunately, he doesn't have DDR4 board.
I checked 3DMark site and all 6900xt seem not as high as 3090 for combined score.

[Edit]
Of all 12900K, I have the highest combined score with 6400 CL30 1t.
My memory OC is higher than that since then, but my 103 is gone for a while to my friend.


----------



## xV Slayer

Hfhjfg said:


> Can't wait to get one. Expecting KS versions will work 5.3-5.4 no hassle all cores and 5.7-5.9 single core.


You are insane.


----------



## Benni231990

i think all KS are only SP 90+ 12900k


----------



## geriatricpollywog

sugi0lover said:


> Unfortunately, he doesn't have DDR4 board.
> I checked 3DMark site and all 6900xt seem not as high as 3090 for combined score.
> 
> [Edit]
> Of all 12900K, I have the highest combined score with 6400 CL30 1t.
> My memory OC is higher than that since then, but my 103 is gone for a while to my friend.
> View attachment 2540959


It looks like you have a slightly higher combined score, but a lower physics score despite running 5.7ghz vs my 5.6ghz. I’m not sure whether the combined test is CPU, memory, or GPU limited but it runs at 90-100 fps which should be easy for a 12900k and 3090.

Hold my beer


----------



## AvengedRobix

Officially 12900KS 1 Core 5.5 All Core 5.2 and e-core 4.0.. Nothing expecial


----------



## Rena Ryugu

1.5V LLC Level 6, E Core and HT disabled, all core 5.6GHz


----------



## gecko991

Nice one. Got a KF also just waiting for the board.


----------



## Hfhjfg

AvengedRobix said:


> Officially 12900KS 1 Core 5.5 All Core 5.2 and e-core 4.0.. Nothing expecial


But default VID is 1.3 according to Intel's screenshot. This is SP 100+ CPU


----------



## cletus-cassidy

cletus-cassidy said:


> Including the basics from my 12 binned 12900K/KFs for science. Hope this helps us build toward a sense of the distribution:
> 
> *Model**Manufactured**Batch**Big SP**Small SP**SP*12900KChinaV136J542103819512900KChinaV133J541102749212900KFVietnamX131J87199769112900KFVietnamX131K10696768912900KFVietnamX132M37298698812900KChinaV137I31295718712900KChinaV135I63696708712900KFVietnamX139M09696678612900KChinaV136J54292668312900KVietnamX142H40389628212900KVietnamX142H40390688212900KChinaJ136J542886881


Updating my prior list with two new 12900Ks I found from alternate sources to the extent helpful (new entries are the bottom two). One matched the second best I've seen (SP92) and the other is the worst (SP79). I'll likely resell these but if someone is interested in the SP92 (or the SP79 ) PM me. I think I'm done now until the 12900KS comes out.


*Model**Manufactured**Batch**Big SP**Small SP**SP*12900KChinaV136J542103819512900KChinaV133J541102749212900KFVietnamX131J87199769112900KFVietnamX131K10696768912900KFVietnamX132M37298698812900KChinaV137I31295718712900KChinaV135I63696708712900KFVietnamX139M09696678612900KChinaV136J54292668312900KVietnamX142H40389628212900KVietnamX142H40390688212900KChinaJ136J542886881*12900KVietnamX142J4151027492*12900KVietnamX142K040905079

*Added 1/4/22


----------



## jomama22

geriatricpollywog said:


> @sugi0lover can your friend test Firestrike using his CPU on a DDR4 board? His combined score should improve a lot. This makes me happy as it shows a potential gaming advantage for DDR4 when both the CPU and GPU are maxed out. Or perhaps the combined test just doesn’t like the 6900XT for some reason.


Firestrike is all latency. It doesn't utilize multi-core very well so bandwidth isn't much of a concern. You would need to compare timespy extreme to get a better idea of what's going on


----------



## sugi0lover

a little more info of SP107


----------



## krotondo

This thread just made me realize how bad my 12900k is.... Just ordered another chip. This has to be one of the lowest on here, do you all think this is worth replacing?


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> a little more info of SP107
> View attachment 2541151


Yours ?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Yours ?


No, he doesn't want to sell it.


----------



## Falkentyne

krotondo said:


> This thread just made me realize how bad my 12900k is.... Just ordered another chip. This has to be one of the lowest on here, do you all think this is worth replacing?
> 
> 
> View attachment 2541157


Why didn't you just wait for the 12900KS ? Don't waste your money on lotteries. I know there are alot of rich people here, but come on...


----------



## krotondo

Falkentyne said:


> Why didn't you just wait for the 12900KS ? Don't waste your money on lotteries. I know there are alot of rich people here, but come on...


I could still return the current chip. But I guess waiting for the KS makes more sense


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Either go all-out with binning a 12900K(s) or pick up a $370 12700K from Microcenter, disable the e-cores, and put the saved money towards a 10 lb box of wild-caught king crab legs from Costco.


----------



## Ichirou

I would be genuinely curious to see how the 12900KS bins. They're not like the 8086k back in the day where it was like, top ~5% of 8700k chips.
In this case, many 12900Ks can already do 5.2 GHz all-core and probably 5.5 GHz single, so it might just be a marketing tactic or something.


----------



## Electrosoft

Ichirou said:


> I would be genuinely curious to see how the 12900KS bins. They're not like the 8086k back in the day where it was like, top ~5% of 8700k chips.
> In this case, many 12900Ks can already do 5.2 GHz all-core and probably 5.5 GHz single, so it might just be a marketing tactic or something.



All they're guaranteeing is 5.5 boost / 5.2 all core. I remember the 9900ks I picked up was inferior to my p0 9900k and fell off after 5.1 while my 9900k could do 5.2+

I suspect better baseline bins on average but there's nothing from stopping you from getting a high SP80's bin that happens to eeek out 5.5 boost / 5.2 all core and that's all Intel is guaranteeing.

You will just be binning with a slight shift upward in silicon quality so you won't have to worry about low SP80s and worse.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Finally hook up my direct die 12900k but don’t see raid option in pch . I tried to install win but it see no hard drive also but when I flash bios 0046, the exflash detects all drives. What can I do?


----------



## krotondo

geriatricpollywog said:


> Either go all-out with binning a 12900K(s) or pick up a $370 12700K from Microcenter, disable the e-cores, and put the saved money towards a 10 lb box of wild-caught king crab legs from Costco.


The more I think about it I probably won’t even notice a difference since I game at 4k with a 3090. Just knowing it could run at a lower voltage annoys me.


----------



## Ichirou

Electrosoft said:


> All they're guaranteeing is 5.5 boost / 5.2 all core. I remember the 9900ks I picked up was inferior to my p0 9900k and fell off after 5.1 while my 9900k could do 5.2+
> 
> I suspect better baseline bins on average but there's nothing from stopping you from getting a high SP80's bin that happens to eeek out 5.5 boost / 5.2 all core and that's all Intel is guaranteeing.
> 
> You will just be binning with a slight shift upward in silicon quality so you won't have to worry about low SP80s and worse.


That's what I suspect as well; chances are they would be equivalent to P-core SP 85+ chips, which aren't really all that special. Rest would just be the voltage necessary to run it.

What would be useful information however is that since Intel has to provide a warranty for them, based on what the required voltages are, we can get some clarity into what is considered a safe Vcore for daily 24/7 for the 12900K series. And Intel is providing a three year warranty for the 12900K.

So, either Intel bins it heavily with SP 95+ or something to keep voltages low, or they bin it average because they know that there's a lot of voltage headroom for the chips before they degrade.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Ichirou said:


> That's what I suspect as well; chances are they would be equivalent to P-core SP 85+ chips, which aren't really all that special. Rest would just be the voltage necessary to run it.
> 
> What would be useful information however is that since Intel has to provide a warranty for them, based on what the required voltages are, we can get some clarity into what is considered a safe Vcore for daily 24/7 for the 12900K series. And Intel is providing a three year warranty for the 12900K.
> 
> So, either Intel bins it heavily with SP 95+ or something to keep voltages low, or they bin it average because they know that there's a lot of voltage headroom for the chips before they degrade.


Guaranteeing 5.2 all core tells me this will be a total demon core. My SP89 can do 5.2 all core, but may still crash under certain benchmark conditions when water temp is not ideal.


----------



## Exilon

Their screenshot had a 4.7 ring with E-cores turboing at 4.0 so it's probably a new stepping with yield fixes and an update for the E-core clusters. We know that some launch 12900Ks were binned for 53x TVB but it was never implemented. One possible reason would be that the average voltages required to hit 5.3 TVB at Intel spec was unacceptable on the C0 stepping so it was yanked last minute.


----------



## sugi0lover

krotondo said:


> This thread just made me realize how bad my 12900k is.... Just ordered another chip. This has to be one of the lowest on here, do you all think this is worth replacing?
> 
> 
> View attachment 2541157


Cheer up man 😄


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> Cheer up man 😄
> View attachment 2541177


Aside from disabling E-cores and Hyperthreading, does ASUS BIOS let you disable individual cores?
I'm considering killing off two of the worst cores since I don't need eight cores anyway.


----------



## DeX

Ichirou said:


> Aside from disabling E-cores and Hyperthreading, does ASUS BIOS let you disable individual cores?
> I'm considering killing off two of the worst cores since I don't need eight cores anyway.


I remember off hand that it at least lets you adjust individual core ratios. (this not the the per core usage). You can assign specific cores a ratio, so you can drop your bad ones a couple x. I tried this and for example, under full load, each P-core can run at different speeds. I suppose this helps just to keep those cores heat down.


----------



## Ichirou

DeX said:


> I remember off hand that it at least lets you adjust individual core ratios. (this not the the per core usage). You can assign specific cores a ratio, so you can drop your bad ones a couple x. I tried this and for example, under full load, each P-core can run at different speeds. I suppose this helps just to keep those cores heat down.


Doesn't ASUS go by ratio per number of cores at once? Or is there a new feature that allows you to swap to individual cores now? That would certainly be much more easier to work with, since I really dislike having to deal with cores going up and down in frequency. I prefer locking them.


----------



## DeX

Ichirou said:


> Doesn't ASUS go by ratio per number of cores at once? Or is there a new feature that allows you to swap to individual cores now? That would certainly be much more easier to work with, since I really dislike having to deal with cores going up and down in frequency. I prefer locking them.


There are two settings, one where you can set 1 core usage, 2 core usage, 3 etc.etc. and set the ratios accordingly. The other setting, which is a sub menu, lets you assign locked ratios per core. So if you ran an all core stress test like CBR23, you could run them like this for example: Core 0 - 52 / Core 1 - 53 / Core 2 - 53 / Core 3 - 54 / Core 4 - 50 / Core 5 - 53.


----------



## DeX

Took a photo of the menu quick


----------



## Ichirou

DeX said:


> Took a photo of the menu quick
> View attachment 2541194
> View attachment 2541193


Very nice. This is perfect then. Allows me to fine tune the cores based on how good they are.
Does setting those take precedence over the core usage setting? Or how does it work in combination with it?
And why are there adaptive voltages? Is it because it's only doing turbo to the ratio limit, but can dip lower?


----------



## nmkr

+1 bring back ape on z690 for i3 <3


----------



## cletus-cassidy

sugi0lover said:


> No, he doesn't want to sell it.


Out of curiosity only, is this your friend that had access to thousands of CPUs to bin? How is that even possible? Reseller or OEM?


----------



## MikeS3000

sugi0lover said:


> Cheer up man 😄
> View attachment 2541177


That's almost exactly how my 12700k looks with overall SP, P-cores and E-cores. Just give it a little more juice and have fun. I'm still daily stable at 5.4 on 1-3 cores on every one of my p-cores and can run 5.5 on 6 out of 8 of the cores at 1.49v socket sense if I choose (don't run this for daily though). Seems like most of these CPUs are easily comfortable on few cores north of 5.3 so the performance gains are for every 100 mhz you go up are not that large. 5.4 to 5.5 is literally 1.5% more single core performance at the cost of a ton of voltage.


----------



## ObviousCough

/cries in SP69


----------



## marti69

hi guys are cinebench scores lower with the new bios avx512 disabled?


----------



## Hfhjfg

marti69 said:


> hi guys are cinebench scores lower with the new bios avx512 disabled?


CB23 don't even use AVX256, so no, they are not.


----------



## Electrosoft

ObviousCough said:


> /cries in SP69


Ouch, got a screen shot?


----------



## digitalfrost

ObviousCough said:


> 69


Nice.


----------



## Ichirou

12900k finally arrived here; took forever though. Carillo packaged it in a massive box but with all of the parts unboxed inside XD.
Don't mind it though; seems to have avoided customs fees that way.

Ended up getting access to a Galax RAM kit with binned 5,000 MHz Samsung B-die, so I'll see what these babies can do later. Will report back.


----------



## Lurifaks

The difference , P vs E , 12700K


----------



## Simkin

Got myself two more 12900K. My Batch #V135I200 SP81 seemed to have a real bad IMC, just from the moment i enabled XMP it would freeze in windows randomly, would crash/freeze in Cinebench R23 almost immediately, this was XMP 6000 CL36 1.35V

First out of the two i got today was also a SP81 #Batch V135I548T - but it could atleast run Cinebench for 10 min so seem to have a much better IMC.

Second was a SP88 #Batch V130I989T and it run Cinebench almost 10c cooler then both the SP81 did at stock settings (No OC on CPU) Both SP81 was in the 80's while the SP88 kept it a 75c.

Both SP81 had BIG SP89 while the SP88 has BIG SP97

So, happy SP88 owner... i hope


----------



## Ichirou

I have a question about Gear 1 specifically:
Does the quality of the RAM factor into whether or not it can be pushed harder on G1, or is it strictly the IMC that dictates what results you can achieve?

For example: If a kit can do 4,500 CL16 on G2, is the reason why it can't do it on G1 because of the RAM itself, or is it because of the IMC?
What's the science involved?

Also, does ADL Gear work similarly to Ryzen IF where although Gear 1 is preferred, you could get better performance on Gear 2 if the frequency is high enough?


----------



## ObviousCough

In my experience gear 1 success is entirely due to motherboard bios and IMC.

I think higher bandwidth from gear 2 while reaching a similar latency (~50ns) as gear 1 would be the best. just my opinion though.


----------



## nickolp1974

Got my cpu today, not great SP83, no problem with sammys at 6200cas32cr1


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> I have a question about Gear 1 specifically:
> Does the quality of the RAM factor into whether or not it can be pushed harder on G1, or is it strictly the IMC that dictates what results you can achieve?
> 
> For example: If a kit can do 4,500 CL16 on G2, is the reason why it can't do it on G1 because of the RAM itself, or is it because of the IMC?
> What's the science involved?
> 
> Also, does ADL Gear work similarly to Ryzen IF where although Gear 1 is preferred, you could get better performance on Gear 2 if the frequency is high enough?


If you are on the z690 Strix d4 good luck with gear 2. I couldnt get it working over 4600, didnt try all the bios versions on gear 2(not worth it in my opinion if you can run 4000-4266 gear 1).

And if those b die you have are single rank. Have fun. They are picky about what bios the work on. 707 and 901 worked good for me on SR and DR b die. 

901 the best though for me overall for gear 1 dr b die.


----------



## sugi0lover

cletus-cassidy said:


> Out of curiosity only, is this your friend that had access to thousands of CPUs to bin? How is that even possible? Reseller or OEM?


I have about 10 friends who bin more than 20 CPUs each at every generation. They are doing that just for hobby to get the best quality one for themselves.
They lose money by doing this because cpu becomes used one once they check SP. 
They have to sell those used ones at lower price than they bought. If it's good one like SP90, then they can sell it at the original price. But most of them are below SP90.
But they don't care about that loss, only care about getting the best one that they can be satisfied with.
Lucky for me, the chance to get the best one or the second best one is usually given to me.


----------



## CallMeODZ

sugi0lover said:


> I have about 10 friends who bin more than 20 CPUs each at every generation.



hey mate i have a question regarding this, its not on topic for please forgive me for the brief derail
when selling the used cpus, do they frequently encounter bs - like using ebay and some scumbag launches a paypal dispute claiming item does not match the description etc etc


----------



## cletus-cassidy

sugi0lover said:


> I have about 10 friends who bin more than 20 CPUs each at every generation. They are doing that just for hobby to get the best quality one for themselves.
> They lose money by doing this because cpu becomes used one once they check SP.
> They have to sell those used ones at lower price than they bought. If it's good one like SP90, then they can sell it at the original price. But most of them are below SP90.
> But they don't care about that loss, only care about getting the best one that they can be satisfied with.
> Lucky for me, the chance to get the best one or the second best one is usually given to me.


That's awesome. You have some good friends. I do that type of binning too just never seem to find the SP100+ that others do. I thought maybe they were doing way way more CPUs but it gets expensive and time consuming.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

CallMeODZ said:


> hey mate i have a question regarding this, its not on topic for please forgive me for the brief derail
> when selling the used cpus, do they frequently encounter bs - like using ebay and some scumbag launches a paypal dispute claiming item does not match the description etc etc


Usually better off selling on reddit's hardwareswap. It's actual enthusiasts most of the time and there is a pretty good reporting system for scumbags.


----------



## Ichirou

ObviousCough said:


> In my experience gear 1 success is entirely due to motherboard bios and IMC.
> 
> I think higher bandwidth from gear 2 while reaching a similar latency (~50ns) as gear 1 would be the best. just my opinion though.





bscool said:


> If you are on the z690 Strix d4 good luck with gear 2. I couldnt get it working over 4600, didnt try all the bios versions on gear 2(not worth it in my opinion if you can run 4000-4266 gear 1).
> 
> And if those b die you have are single rank. Have fun. They are picky about what bios the work on. 707 and 901 worked good for me on SR and DR b die.
> 
> 901 the best though for me overall for gear 1 dr b die.


Very well, I'll try to max out Gear 2 first of all, and then test out Gear 1 afterwards to see where that leads me.

For the Strix D4, do you have a link for 0901? I so far only have beta 0808 and 0812 BIOS files that shamino posted a while back.


----------



## bscool

@Ichirou

ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4 | ROG Strix | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global

if that doesnt work ROG-STRIX-Z690-A-GAMING-WIFI-D4-ASUS-0901.CAP


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> @Ichirou
> 
> ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4 | ROG Strix | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global
> 
> if that doesnt work ROG-STRIX-Z690-A-GAMING-WIFI-D4-ASUS-0901.CAP


Ah, so 0901 is a new official release that may even be better than 0808 and 0812. Cool.

Will get the temporarily bench system set up soon enough. In the meanwhile, will make a separate thread to share the results I achieve with the GALAX HOF kit.

Edit: Limited Edition GALAX HOF Tempest DDR4-5000 CL19 2x8 GB...


----------



## sugi0lover

CallMeODZ said:


> hey mate i have a question regarding this, its not on topic for please forgive me for the brief derail
> when selling the used cpus, do they frequently encounter bs - like using ebay and some scumbag launches a paypal dispute claiming item does not match the description etc etc


When they sell, the price is only based on SP not actual OC result since OC can be very different on different system & users. 
So unless SP is not right, no dispute.



cletus-cassidy said:


> That's awesome. You have some good friends. I do that type of binning too just never seem to find the SP100+ that others do. I thought maybe they were doing way way more CPUs but it gets expensive and time consuming.


One friend binned 20 12900ks to get his 103. 
The other binned only 5 to get his 103. just pure luck~


----------



## Simkin

Have tried the AI Overclocking on my Apex board, and it seems to be running well. But it keeps changing the max frequency, yesterday it was Light/Heavy 51/53, today it is 52/54, in Cinebench it keeps it at 5.2Ghz and 1.26v which is fine, in gaming its running 5.4 but the voltage is 1.4v, which is a little out of my comfortzone. I use a Corsair H170i 420mm AIO, so i manage to keep the temp under 90c in Cinebench but only barely.

For me, 5.1Ghz and 1.22v-ish would be enough - and would give me some headroom temp wise. Will it be much i need to fiddle around in BIOS to do?

Anyone want to give me a push in the bios? Offset / adaptive etc


----------



## nickolp1974

Any idea when the KS chips are at retailers???


----------



## Nizzen

nickolp1974 said:


> Any idea when the KS chips are at retailers???


When Intel says so.
"The _release date_ of the i9-_12900KS_ is currently unknown"


----------



## Tideman

Got my 12900K up and running in new build. It's an SP86. P-Core is 94. That about average?

At stock it tops out at 80C on core 2 in Cinebench (30min run). My H170i radiator didn't seem in the best condition so was concerned about temps but I think they're about right?


----------



## nickolp1974

Nizzen said:


> When Intel says so.
> "The _release date_ of the i9-_12900KS_ is currently unknown"


so its not imminent then?? damn


----------



## memester999

Falkentyne said:


> Hard lockup with no BSOD followed by a complete abnormally long power off and on sequence--E cores crashed, usually caused by a 0x124 uncorrectable WHEA error


Hi,
if you have any WHEA crash dumps in Windows/LiveKernelReports/WHEA corresponding to those lockups, can you please check the parameter 1 in them with WinDbg? I've had similar issues with a 12700KF - WinDbg says something about a "BOOT error".
Only happened in idle.


----------



## Hexes

Is this 12900K possibly the biggest SP impostor out there or am I just confused? Strix A Gaming shows SP90 (P99E73) in bios. At 5.1p/4.0e, LLC6 it requires 1.27v (1.29 bios set) avg. vcore to pass Cinebench R23 for one 10 min benchmark. To be stable for back-to-back 30 min runs it requires 10 ms more voltage. Liquid Freezer II 420 is starting to struggle at this point.

To pass at 5.2p/4.0e, 1.343v (1.36 bios set) was needed. Couldn't do it anymore due to temps so I disabled one P-core. Even that was already a way too much for the cooler.

This is of course socket sense, but guess the actual vcore is over 1.2v as well at this point.


----------



## MikeS3000

Simkin said:


> Have tried the AI Overclocking on my Apex board, and it seems to be running well. But it keeps changing the max frequency, yesterday it was Light/Heavy 51/53, today it is 52/54, in Cinebench it keeps it at 5.2Ghz and 1.26v which is fine, in gaming its running 5.4 but the voltage is 1.4v, which is a little out of my comfortzone. I use a Corsair H170i 420mm AIO, so i manage to keep the temp under 90c in Cinebench but only barely.
> 
> For me, 5.1Ghz and 1.22v-ish would be enough - and would give me some headroom temp wise. Will it be much i need to fiddle around in BIOS to do?
> 
> Anyone want to give me a push in the bios? Offset / adaptive etc


To lock your frequency with AI overclocking you have to lock your cooler score. It's probably set to keep training so the score will fluctuate and therefore so will the frequency.


----------



## Simkin

MikeS3000 said:


> To lock your frequency with AI overclocking you have to lock your cooler score. It's probably set to keep training so the score will fluctuate and therefore so will the frequency.


Thanks, i lowered my cooler score abit


----------



## Hfhjfg

Hexes said:


> Is this 12900K possibly the biggest SP impostor out there or am I just confused? Strix A Gaming shows SP90 (P99E73) in bios. At 5.1p/4.0e, LLC6 it requires 1.27v (1.29 bios set) avg. vcore to pass Cinebench R23 for one 10 min benchmark. To be stable for back-to-back 30 min runs it requires 10 ms more voltage. Liquid Freezer II 420 is starting to struggle at this point.
> 
> To pass at 5.2p/4.0e, 1.343v (1.36 bios set) was needed. Couldn't do it anymore due to temps so I disabled one P-core. Even that was already a way too much for the cooler.
> 
> This is of course socket sense, but guess the actual vcore is over 1.2v as well at this point.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2541445
> View attachment 2541446
> View attachment 2541447


5.2p/4.0e, 1.343v for SP100 CPU in CB23? 
It should work with much lower voltage (even for socket sense). Probably something else makes it unstable. Try to temporarely reset memory OC to see if it will work with lower voltage. Most likely it will work with 1.27 SS voltage.


----------



## LionAlonso

Hfhjfg said:


> 5.2p/4.0e, 1.343v for SP100 CPU in CB23?
> It should work with much lower voltage (even for socket sense). Probably something else makes it unstable. Try to temporarely reset memory OC to see if it will work with lower voltage. Most likely it will work with 1.27 SS voltage.


Temps are also significant, 10-15 degrees can make that difference
Nobody test 48x frequency with max undervolt, but that way even aircoolers could compare SP results.


----------



## Hexes

Hfhjfg said:


> 5.2p/4.0e, 1.343v for SP100 CPU in CB23?
> It should work with much lower voltage (even for socket sense). Probably something else makes it unstable. Try to temporarely reset memory OC to see if it will work with lower voltage. Most likely it will work with 1.27 SS voltage.


I wish that was the case but sadly doesn't seem like it. I have of course tried without memory overclock and just about every other option that I can think of, too. Just for the heck of it I just loaded optimized defaults and only changed P-cores to 51x, manual voltage 1.27v and LLC6 in AI Tweaker panel. Everything else on auto there. Crash came in a few minutes. HWiNFO vcore reading was at 1.252.

Temperatures at this point/frequency don't seem to matter much. Can happily push even 90-95 celsius without crashing as long as the minimum voltage threshold is being fed to the CPU. I started overclocking this by increasing the voltage and had low temps early on running 1.21-1.24. That didn't help unfortunately. I will have to try running 49-50x at minimum passable vcore just for fun.

Oh I remember when I was so happy seeing that SP in bios when I ran this CPU for the first time. Was thinking I will do the RAM first and then OC the CPU as it's so good so should be easy to take care of. How wrong was I.  

RAM literally took weeks but is rock stable now. At times the high SA voltage required to run those frequencies gave me a weird feeling but I thought it's just a mediocre IMC, other than that it's gotta be good. Yeah right.

Honestly it seems the SP number is about 20 points higher than it should be for whatever reason. I got a custom loop coming in with MO-RA3 420. Maybe, just maybe I could run 52x with it while some worse SP chips get there with a freaking 280 AIO or less.


----------



## Ichirou

Hexes said:


> I wish that was the case but sadly doesn't seem like it. I have of course tried without memory overclock and just about every other option that I can think of, too. Just for the heck of it I just loaded optimized defaults and only changed P-cores to 51x, manual voltage 1.27v and LLC6 in AI Tweaker panel. Everything else on auto there. Crash came in a few minutes. HWiNFO vcore reading was at 1.252.
> 
> Temperatures at this point/frequency don't seem to matter much. Can happily push even 90-95 celsius without crashing as long as the minimum voltage threshold is being fed to the CPU. I started overclocking this by increasing the voltage and had low temps early on running 1.21-1.24. That didn't help unfortunately. I will have to try running 49-50x at minimum passable vcore just for fun.
> 
> Oh I remember when I was so happy seeing that SP in bios when I ran this CPU for the first time. Was thinking I will do the RAM first and then OC the CPU as it's so good so should be easy to take care of. How wrong was I.
> 
> RAM literally took weeks but is rock stable now. At times the high SA voltage required to run those frequencies gave me a weird feeling but I thought it's just a mediocre IMC, other than that it's gotta be good. Yeah right.
> 
> Honestly it seems the SP number is about 20 points higher than it should be for whatever reason. I got a custom loop coming in with MO-RA3 420. Maybe, just maybe I could run 52x with it while some worse SP chips get there with a freaking 280 AIO or less.


@sugi0lover once described that there are cases where the SP ratings are wrong. Forgot the steps to get an accurate re-read though.


----------



## bscool

@Hexes Are you using the lga1700 mount?

I am using Strix d412900kf(DR b die) and Artic 420 also. My temps are ok.

When i had the radiator with tube up(front mounted rad) also had slightly higher temps as air occasionaly was circulating thru the loop. 

I also use liquid metal instead of regular thermal paste so probably drops temps a little also.

I dont have any temps after looping for 10min to compare temps with you just shorter runs.


----------



## Hexes

Ichirou said:


> @sugi0lover once described that there are cases where the SP ratings are wrong. Forgot the steps to get an accurate re-read though.


Yeah I remember reading about it. I bought this mobo and chip brand new from a retailer, for what it's worth. SP has been the same through all different bios versions I have flashed, countless times loading optimized defaults, resetting CMOS with the button etc. One would think that would be enough to reset the SP rating too if it was bugged somehow.



bscool said:


> @Hexes Are you using the lga1700 mount?
> 
> I am using Strix d412900kf(DR b die) and Artic 420 also. My temps are ok.
> 
> When i had the radiator with tube up(front mounted rad) also had slightly higher temps as air occasionaly was circulating thru the loop.
> 
> I also use liquid metal instead of regular thermal paste so probably drops temps a little also.
> 
> I dont have any temps after looping for 10min to compare temps with you just shorter runs.


I have the proper LGA 1700 mount. Tubes are up as it's the only way they reach the CPU. Thermal Paste is Arctic MX-5 so not optimal but not bad either. Temps are really not an issue here, it's just the wattage which at that point (~260W+) is enough to start causing trouble to the cooler over 10 mins of running Cinebench.

Crazy to see you run 53x there with that voltage. My chip at 52x would surely crash instantly.


----------



## bscool

Hexes said:


> Yeah I remember reading about it. I bought this mobo and chip brand new from a retailer, for what it's worth. SP has been the same through all different bios versions I have flashed, countless times loading optimized defaults, resetting CMOS with the button etc. One would think that would be enough to reset the SP rating too if it was bugged somehow.
> 
> 
> 
> I have the proper LGA 1700 mount. Tubes are up as it's the only way they reach the CPU. Thermal Paste is Arctic MX-5 so not optimal but not bad either. Temps are really not an issue here, it's just the wattage which at that point (~260W+) is enough to start causing trouble to the cooler over 10 mins of running Cinebench.
> 
> Crazy to see you run 53x there with that voltage. My chip at 52x would surely crash instantly.


I can cool 260watts easily. So it seems like something is off with your setup.

I have seen people with lower SP chips than yours getting as good or better temps. So I dont think it has anything to do with SP.

What bios version are you using? 901 is the best for me so far.

Looking at your voltages I would guess it is an older bios.


----------



## Hexes

bscool said:


> I can cool 260watts easily. So it seems like something is off with your setup.
> 
> I have seen people with lower SP chips than yours getting as good or better temps. So I dont think it has anything to do with SP.
> 
> What bios version are you using? 901 is the best for me so far.
> 
> Looking at your voltages I would guess it is an older bios.



This is with ~25C room temp and worse thermal paste which in this case is liquid metal vs second tier paste. Probably a few celsius there already or tens of watts. I still don't see how temp is an issue if it crashes in lower temps as well. But I can just open the window tomorrow and let -15 air pour in to cool the room only to prove a point.

Bios is 0812. Bios has had no effect on CPU overclockability for me so far. Tried all the official ones plus this beta.


----------



## Electrosoft

Hexes said:


> Yeah I remember reading about it. I bought this mobo and chip brand new from a retailer, for what it's worth. SP has been the same through all different bios versions I have flashed, countless times loading optimized defaults, resetting CMOS with the button etc. One would think that would be enough to reset the SP rating too if it was bugged somehow.
> 
> 
> 
> I have the proper LGA 1700 mount. Tubes are up as it's the only way they reach the CPU. Thermal Paste is Arctic MX-5 so not optimal but not bad either. Temps are really not an issue here, it's just the wattage which at that point (~260W+) is enough to start causing trouble to the cooler over 10 mins of running Cinebench.
> 
> Crazy to see you run 53x there with that voltage. My chip at 52x would surely crash instantly.





bscool said:


> I can cool 260watts easily. So it seems like something is off with your setup.
> 
> I have seen people with lower SP chips than yours getting as good or better temps. So I dont think it has anything to do with SP.
> 
> What bios version are you using? 901 is the best for me so far.
> 
> Looking at your voltages I would guess it is an older bios.





Hexes said:


> This is with ~25C room temp and worse thermal paste which in this case is liquid metal vs second tier paste. Probably a few celsius there already or tens of watts. I still don't see how temp is an issue if it crashes in lower temps as well. But I can just open the window tomorrow and let -15 air pour in to cool the room only to prove a point.
> 
> Bios is 0812. Bios has had no effect on CPU overclockability for me so far. Tried all the official ones plus this beta.




I'm running an SP90 with an AC LF II 420mm tubes up front mount and 5.2 CB23 tops out at ~79 with package pull @ ~261w running 901 on Strix Z690 D4. I run Kingpin thermal paste no liquid metal.

You could just have a hot chip too to add to your woes. The SP89 I had (P96/E76) was a heat monster and pulled 327w at 5.2 and thermal throttled. It also hit 85+ 5.0 pulling 260w.


----------



## Hexes

Electrosoft said:


> I'm running an SP90 with an AC LF II 420mm tubes up front mount and 5.2 CB23 tops out at ~79 with package pull @ ~261w running 901 on Strix Z690 D4. I run Kingpin thermal paste no liquid metal.
> 
> You could just have a hot chip too to add to your woes. The SP89 I had (P96/E76) was a heat monster and pulled 327w at 5.2 and thermal throttled. It also hit 85+ 5.0 pulling 260w.


Great. that's all I need right now but sounds about right! Definitely gonna sell this chip and get the KS once they become available.


----------



## Hfhjfg

Hexes said:


> Great. that's all I need right now but sounds about right! Definitely gonna sell this chip and get the KS once they become available.


btw, maybe there is 1 bad core that makes whole CPU require higher voltage? So by limiting it to run at x51 (or by disabling HT on it) you can release other cores to work at full speed. Just a theory


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Default bios setting with Supercool direct die and 23c water temp. Im not sure why the min temp in core temp is lower than water temp 😅.


----------



## HiLuckyB

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Default bios setting with Supercool direct die and 23c water temp. Im not sure why the min temp in core temp is lower than water temp 😅.
> View attachment 2541544
> 
> View attachment 2541543


I'm waiting for my Supercool direct die kit to ship. My 12900K delid is Ok until I start to get up around 300W CPU package power. Then the temps are hard to keep under control.


----------



## Nizzen

HiLuckyB said:


> I'm waiting for my Supercool direct die kit to ship. My 12900K delid is Ok until I start to get up around 300W CPU package power. Then the temps are hard to keep under control.


So you play Cinebench 24/7 😅


----------



## HiLuckyB

Nizzen said:


> So you play Cinebench 24/7 😅


I use R15 to test my overclocks, Fastest way to see if I'm close to stable. R23 will get the CPU hotter and use more power, But I can pass R23 with less vcore than with R15.
But of course day to day I won't normally push past 200 watts, Unless I open Java Minecraft. That hits the CPU almost as hard as running R15


----------



## Simkin

Tideman said:


> Got my 12900K up and running in new build. It's an SP86. P-Core is 94. That about average?
> 
> At stock it tops out at 80C on core 2 in Cinebench (30min run). My H170i radiator didn't seem in the best condition so was concerned about temps but I think they're about right?


Stock my SP88 (P 97) tops out on 75c-ish on hottest core in Cinebench R23 Multicore on my H170i Elite LCD. 5.2 All core Cinebench is pushing it to almost 90c. (This could be lowered with some voltage adjustment)

Voltage has a lot to say, I use AI OC and set a negative offset to 0.070 in bios and it drops the temps 7-8c on my 5.1 ghz all core OC.


----------



## AvengedRobix

What Is It this "supercool direct die kit"? More info please 

Inviato dal mio ONEPLUS A6013 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## CoUsT

Hexes said:


> Yeah I remember reading about it. I bought this mobo and chip brand new from a retailer, for what it's worth. SP has been the same through all different bios versions I have flashed, countless times loading optimized defaults, resetting CMOS with the button etc. One would think that would be enough to reset the SP rating too if it was bugged somehow.
> 
> 
> 
> I have the proper LGA 1700 mount. Tubes are up as it's the only way they reach the CPU. Thermal Paste is Arctic MX-5 so not optimal but not bad either. Temps are really not an issue here, it's just the wattage which at that point (~260W+) is enough to start causing trouble to the cooler over 10 mins of running Cinebench.
> 
> Crazy to see you run 53x there with that voltage. My chip at 52x would surely crash instantly.


I have 360 instead of 420 and paste that came with cooler and I get very similar temps at similar power usage. Mine are 1-5c higher and I mounted AIO on the top so understandable. I think the temp is pretty much spot on for our cooler if we don't go better paste/liquid metal and push/pull config.


----------



## satinghostrider

If anyone's keen, my 12900k SP84 runs CB R23 stock at 63 degrees tops. Full custom loop. Haven't got around to playing with OC after taking so much time to stabilise my rams.


----------



## Simkin

CptSpig said:


> Picked up a kit two weeks ago F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5K. 6000 memory OC and CPU 5.5 OC on ASUS Z690 Apex.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2539509


Could you post your bios ram voltage settings for this?


----------



## Hexes

Hfhjfg said:


> btw, maybe there is 1 bad core that makes whole CPU require higher voltage? So by limiting it to run at x51 (or by disabling HT on it) you can release other cores to work at full speed. Just a theory


I guess it's worth a try.


----------



## mattxx88

Simkin said:


> Could you post your bios ram voltage settings for this?


they're reported in the attached screen


----------



## CoUsT

I'm a bit confused when it comes to best/worst cores.

The best cores in BIOS (Strix A D4) and in Intel XTU are reversed. Which one says the true best and worst cores? Should I trust BIOS or Intel XTU?


----------



## Ichirou

CoUsT said:


> I'm a bit confused when it comes to best/worst cores.
> 
> The best cores in BIOS (Strix A D4) and in Intel XTU are reversed. Which one says the true best and worst cores? Should I trust BIOS or Intel XTU?


Trust BIOS; software-based readings don't always link up to the correct cores.


----------



## opt33

satinghostrider said:


> If anyone's keen, my 12900k SP84 runs CB R23 stock at 63 degrees tops. Full custom loop. Haven't got around to playing with OC after taking so much time to stabilise my rams.


Mine pretty much same, all stock sp93, cb 23 custom water, my Pcore cpu temps ranged from 58C-63C (except one core with poorly calibrated sensor reading 52C), delta max to min temps (to control for ambient temp differences) was ~35C average. Ie typical 3-5C higher temps compared to delidded soldered cpu (assuming similar ambients/power/settings).


----------



## Nizzen

CptSpig said:


> Picked up a kit two weeks ago F5-5600U3636C16GX2-TZ5K. 6000 memory OC and CPU 5.5 OC on ASUS Z690 Apex.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2539509


Cold is allways king 
Nice result


----------



## Tideman

Simkin said:


> Stock my SP88 (P 97) tops out on 75c-ish on hottest core in Cinebench R23 Multicore on my H170i Elite LCD. 5.2 All core Cinebench is pushing it to almost 90c. (This could be lowered with some voltage adjustment)
> 
> Voltage has a lot to say, I use AI OC and set a negative offset to 0.070 in bios and it drops the temps 7-8c on my 5.1 ghz all core OC.


Turns out I wasn't fully at stock (MCE was on auto). With that disabled and at Intel's default power limit I'm hitting only 77c max in R23. Which is odd because looking at HWInfo, nothing has changed in terms of the all core clock, voltages etc... I did switch from 0811 to 0046 though.

Also I can't get XMP stable with MCE enabled..


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Intel Confirms Upcoming Core i9-12900KS Alder Lake CPU Hits 5.5GHz At Stock Settings


Alder Lake is barely out the door and Intel is already talking about a new flagship SKU on the horizon. That would be the Core i9-12900KS with even faster clocks than the regular K model.




hothardware.com





"Speaking of which, it sounds like the Core i9-12900KS will be exclusive to Intel's OEM partners. If so, the only way to get one would be to buy a pre-built system. We'll have to wait and see, but fingers crossed it will be offered as a standalone chip too."

I really hope this is wrong.


----------



## CallMeODZ

here we have a lot of OEM listings for each cpu, it just means they come in bulk without boxes aka tray cpus
which would be a shame, as i really wanted to sell the box on ebay for $900 (joke)

hopefully, availability will be good also hope sugi's friends get their hand on some to get an idea of how wild the binning swings* between each cpu


----------



## CoUsT

I have a question regarding voltages. I have 12700KF. When I'm running all auto the voltages stay in 1.2V - 1.35V range. Upping all core ratio limit to 50x and doing -40mV on 48x and -30mV on 50x results in CPU getting 1.464V-1.466V at times on VID sensors and 1.447V on Vcore sensors. The voltage for 50x ratio in V/F curve points shows that it is supposed to be 1.328V or so at this ratio. The VID voltage is higher during idle/low load compared to full load, where it reaches around 1.4V on VID and 1.35V on Vcore after vdroop.

What is causing the voltage to go this high? I'm using LLC 3. All voltages on auto/adaptive except DRAM 1.45V and SA 1.1V. Should I take a look at something and/or tune some settings? Is this normal behavior and CPU scales voltage this high for 50x ratio? Why idle SUPPLIED voltage (VID) is higher than full load voltage - talking about VID instead of Vcore and load shouldn't impact this because it is the supplied voltage and it doesn't take vdroop into account afaik.


----------



## munternet

cletus-cassidy said:


> Updating my prior list with two new 12900Ks I found from alternate sources to the extent helpful (new entries are the bottom two). One matched the second best I've seen (SP92) and the other is the worst (SP79). I'll likely resell these but if someone is interested in the SP92 (or the SP79 ) PM me. I think I'm done now until the 12900KS comes out.
> 
> 
> *Model**Manufactured**Batch**Big SP**Small SP**SP*12900KChinaV136J542103819512900KChinaV133J541102749212900KFVietnamX131J87199769112900KFVietnamX131K10696768912900KFVietnamX132M37298698812900KChinaV137I31295718712900KChinaV135I63696708712900KFVietnamX139M09696678612900KChinaV136J54292668312900KVietnamX142H40389628212900KVietnamX142H40390688212900KChinaJ136J542886881*12900KVietnamX142J4151027492*12900KVietnamX142K040799059
> 
> *Added 1/4/22


*** is up with that bottom CPU score??
You are saying SP92 and SP79. I think you might have the collumns mixed up?


----------



## cstkl1

View attachment 2541760

Apex Bios 0021 seems fine


----------



## HvacGuru

cletus-cassidy said:


> Intel Confirms Upcoming Core i9-12900KS Alder Lake CPU Hits 5.5GHz At Stock Settings
> 
> 
> Alder Lake is barely out the door and Intel is already talking about a new flagship SKU on the horizon. That would be the Core i9-12900KS with even faster clocks than the regular K model.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hothardware.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Speaking of which, it sounds like the Core i9-12900KS will be exclusive to Intel's OEM partners. If so, the only way to get one would be to buy a pre-built system. We'll have to wait and see, but fingers crossed it will be offered as a standalone chip too."
> 
> I really hope this is wrong.


Initially, the CPU will be available to OEMs only and later on will be available for purchase by the end users. No specific time frames were given either.


----------



## FatalityXXz

STRIX D4 0605
i9-12900k
SP 79
P CORE 87
E CORE 64

Is that super bad or average/above minimum? Should be ok for light overclocking and gaming?


----------



## Ichirou

FatalityXXz said:


> STRIX D4 0605
> SP 79
> P CORE 87
> E CORE 64
> 
> Is that super bad or average/above minimum? Should be ok for light overclocking and gaming?


P-core 87 is slightly above average. Would disable the E-cores to lessen the load on the P-cores though.


----------



## Lord Alzov

FatalityXXz said:


> STRIX D4 0605
> SP 79
> P CORE 87
> E CORE 64
> 
> Is that super bad or average/above minimum? Should be ok for light overclocking and gaming?


I overclock sp77 to 5200pcore 4000e 4200cache.


----------



## bscool

FatalityXXz said:


> STRIX D4 0605
> SP 79
> P CORE 87
> E CORE 64
> 
> Is that super bad or average/above minimum? Should be ok for light overclocking and gaming?


Doesnt it help to know if you have 12900k 12700k, 12600k etc or cpu doesnt matter?

From what I know for 12900k that is a lower SP.

If 12700k a good bin.


----------



## Hfhjfg

CoUsT said:


> I have a question regarding voltages. I have 12700KF. When I'm running all auto the voltages stay in 1.2V - 1.35V range. Upping all core ratio limit to 50x and doing -40mV on 48x and -30mV on 50x results in CPU getting 1.464V-1.466V at times on VID sensors and 1.447V on Vcore sensors. The voltage for 50x ratio in V/F curve points shows that it is supposed to be 1.328V or so at this ratio. The VID voltage is higher during idle/low load compared to full load, where it reaches around 1.4V on VID and 1.35V on Vcore after vdroop.
> 
> What is causing the voltage to go this high? I'm using LLC 3. All voltages on auto/adaptive except DRAM 1.45V and SA 1.1V. Should I take a look at something and/or tune some settings? Is this normal behavior and CPU scales voltage this high for 50x ratio? Why idle SUPPLIED voltage (VID) is higher than full load voltage - talking about VID instead of Vcore and load shouldn't impact this because it is the supplied voltage and it doesn't take vdroop into account afaik.
> 
> View attachment 2541759


Try to revert voltage offsets and play with AC_LL.
Set LLC manually to 3 (if ASUS)
Set AC_LL to 0.25
Test it, if runs fine, reduce AC_LL to 0.23, test again, repeat until you find instability, then revert AC_LL to the last stable. So you find lowest stable vCore for your OC. Offsets is better to use if you want to fine tune the CPU after you find stability with AC_LL.



FatalityXXz said:


> STRIX D4 0605
> SP 79
> P CORE 87
> E CORE 64
> 
> Is that super bad or average/above minimum? Should be ok for light overclocking and gaming?


I bet it can work 5.4 on 2-3 cores and 5.1 all cores on water with a reasonable voltages.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

munternet said:


> *** is up with that bottom CPU score??
> You are saying SP92 and SP79. I think you might have the collumns mixed up?


Yes, sorry about that. Fixed it in the original: SP79, P90, E59.


----------



## nickolp1974

strange one today, had a bit of an ice bucket benching session all went well. once finished checked over everything and all was good then windows did an update, normally turn all that off but forgot now i cant get into windows, just comes up with automatic repair, restart etc, changed bios, all defaults, ran memtest from bios, pass and still goes to auto repair, ***, ideas???
it completed its update, restarted and auto repair
Apex, 12900k, Hynix


----------



## Agent-A01

nickolp1974 said:


> strange one today, had a bit of an ice bucket benching session all went well. once finished checked over everything and all was good then windows did an update, normally turn all that off but forgot now i cant get into windows, just comes up with automatic repair, restart etc, changed bios, all defaults, ran memtest from bios, pass and still goes to auto repair, ***, ideas???
> it completed its update, restarted and auto repair
> Apex, 12900k, Hynix


Tried BIOS defaults? 
It will do the auto repair if it's not even close to stability, like being too low for system agent.


----------



## nickolp1974

Agent-A01 said:


> Tried BIOS defaults?
> It will do the auto repair if it's not even close to stability, like being too low for system agent.


yes tried, the only thing i didn't check was behind the m2 drive for condensation, just odd that system updated. white light, green light and normally boot


----------



## Bilco

I seem to be getting a lot of vdroop with what I am setting in bios for vdd/vddq and what I am seeign in hwinfo64, this normal or iss there an LLC setting for ram I am missing?

I have the high voltage mode enable and have 1.45 set for VDD/VDDQ and get 1.41/1.425 respectively in hwinfo.

Also what is the tempt to stay below for the hynix ICs?

Right now my ambient is 30C and the modules are sitting at 41 and 42 respectively after 7 minutes of Karhu with EK monarch heatsinks with a corsair ram blower over them.


----------



## Ichirou

Bilco said:


> I seem to be getting a lot of vdroop with what I am setting in bios for vdd/vddq and what I am seeign in hwinfo64, this normal or iss there an LLC setting for ram I am missing?
> 
> I have the high voltage mode enable and have 1.45 set for VDD/VDDQ and get 1.41/1.425 respectively in hwinfo.
> 
> Also what is the tempt to stay below for the hynix ICs?
> 
> Right now my ambient is 30C and the modules are sitting at 41 and 42 respectively after 7 minutes of Karhu with EK monarch heatsinks with a corsair ram blower over them.


Nobody can give you a finite value for max DIMM temperature as each kit will respond to temperature differently. You'll just have to find the max yourself.
Some dies and bins might crap out around the 40s, some in the 50s, maybe some as low as the 30s.

Also, isn't that a bit overkill for RAM to both watercool and add a fan to it? Lol


----------



## Ichirou

Hfhjfg said:


> Try to revert voltage offsets and play with AC_LL.
> Set LLC manually to 3 (if ASUS)
> Set AC_LL to 0.25
> Test it, if runs fine, reduce AC_LL to 0.23, test again, repeat until you find instability, then revert AC_LL to the last stable. So you find lowest stable vCore for your OC. Offsets is better to use if you want to fine tune the CPU after you find stability with AC_LL.


Can you explain in simple terms what AC_LL or DC_LL is?


----------



## flashkillpro

Just installed my Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420 and am getting some weird temperature results. At 1.38V bios 1.36V actual, 5.2 ghz on my 12700k Cinebench R23 throttles at 105C after a few seconds, while with hyperthreading off im 86C. Both pull around 245W. Anyone else have temperatures that much lower with Hyperthreading off? I know that they are supposed to be lower but on my past systems it wasn't by this much. Somewhat strange too as they pull 245W and I can cool 265W in Intel's memory stress test.
With hyperthreading off in CB23 I get around 80C on most cores, 86 on P5 (hottest) and around 76C on P1 (coldest)

Should I reapply thermal paste or remount? I somewhat doubt that would help much as some cores seem fine and only hyperthreading is getting things out of control, although temps are a bit high overall. Could this be a bent mobo/cpu thing like Igor said?

EDIT: Made a mistake, HT ON 1.33V 5.1ghz pulls 280W so 1.38V 5.2ghz would pull even more. Still a 14-15C temperature difference between the two hottest and 2 coldest cores. That's a lot. Also seems like my Arctic 420 tops out at around 260W or so reaching 100C. Is that normal?


----------



## HvacGuru

flashkillpro said:


> Just installed my Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420 and am getting some weird temperature results. At 1.38V bios 1.36V actual, 5.2 ghz on my 12700k Cinebench R23 throttles at 105C after a few seconds, while with hyperthreading off im 86C. Both pull around 245W. Anyone else have temperatures that much lower with Hyperthreading off? I know that they are supposed to be lower but on my past systems it wasn't by this much. Somewhat strange too as they pull 245W and I can cool 265W in Intel's memory stress test.
> With hyperthreading off in CB23 I get around 80C on most cores, 86 on P5 (hottest) and around 76C on P1 (coldest)
> 
> Should I reapply thermal paste or remount? I somewhat doubt that would help much as some cores seem fine and only hyperthreading is getting things out of control, although temps are a bit high overall. Could this be a bent mobo/cpu thing like Igor said?


Put the fans on the mb fan header. Their design is stupid!


----------



## Nizzen

flashkillpro said:


> Just installed my Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420 and am getting some weird temperature results. At 1.38V bios 1.36V actual, 5.2 ghz on my 12700k Cinebench R23 throttles at 105C after a few seconds, while with hyperthreading off im 86C. Both pull around 245W. Anyone else have temperatures that much lower with Hyperthreading off? I know that they are supposed to be lower but on my past systems it wasn't by this much. Somewhat strange too as they pull 245W and I can cool 265W in Intel's memory stress test.
> With hyperthreading off in CB23 I get around 80C on most cores, 86 on P5 (hottest) and around 76C on P1 (coldest)
> 
> Should I reapply thermal paste or remount? I somewhat doubt that would help much as some cores seem fine and only hyperthreading is getting things out of control, although temps are a bit high overall. Could this be a bent mobo/cpu thing like Igor said?


Start playing games. Then look at temps


----------



## flashkillpro

Nizzen said:


> Start playing games. Then look at temps


RDR2 1080p max settings at 5.2ghz 1.38V with HT OFF is in the mid 40's except when initially loading the game I reach 59C. Very nice temps. Just wondering about all core loads even though I'll rarely ever encounter that except a bit of rendering every month or so


----------



## flashkillpro

HvacGuru said:


> Put the fans on the mb fan header. Their design is stupid!


What do you mean exactly by that? I know they have a weird design where the fans are connected to each other and also the pump and there is only one 4-pin to connect. I put the 4 pin on the CPU header. Fans are spinning, pump works too. Should I put it somewhere else?


----------



## FatalityXXz

bscool said:


> Doesnt it help to know if you have 12900k 12700k, 12600k etc or cpu doesnt matter?
> 
> From what I know for 12900k that is a lower SP.
> 
> If 12700k a good bin.


Woops edited, 12900k unfortunately


----------



## Thebc2

Finally got my system together. Looks like a decent bin, let’s see how she does.

Pairing with an Apex and Teamgroup 6400. Time to starting tweaking. Originally had an Extreme but it was DOA, glad to end up with an Apex in the end.











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## Ichirou

Delete


----------



## Thebc2

Ichirou said:


> Check to make sure your Apex isn't one of the affected boards that might catch on fire


Weren’t those heros?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## satinghostrider

Ichirou said:


> Check to make sure your Apex isn't one of the affected boards that might catch on fire


This is news to me. AFAIK only hero's were affected. Apex has been gravy since day 1 hardware wise.


----------



## Ichirou

satinghostrider said:


> This is news to me. AFAIK only hero's were affected. Apex has been gravy since day 1 hardware wise.


Oh, I might've remembered wrong. Yeah, my mistake. It's the Heros.


----------



## bscool

flashkillpro said:


> Just installed my Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420 and am getting some weird temperature results. At 1.38V bios 1.36V actual, 5.2 ghz on my 12700k Cinebench R23 throttles at 105C after a few seconds, while with hyperthreading off im 86C. Both pull around 245W. Anyone else have temperatures that much lower with Hyperthreading off? I know that they are supposed to be lower but on my past systems it wasn't by this much. Somewhat strange too as they pull 245W and I can cool 265W in Intel's memory stress test.
> With hyperthreading off in CB23 I get around 80C on most cores, 86 on P5 (hottest) and around 76C on P1 (coldest)
> 
> Should I reapply thermal paste or remount? I somewhat doubt that would help much as some cores seem fine and only hyperthreading is getting things out of control, although temps are a bit high overall. Could this be a bent mobo/cpu thing like Igor said?
> 
> EDIT: Made a mistake, HT ON 1.33V 5.1ghz pulls 280W so 1.38V 5.2ghz would pull even more. Still a 14-15C temperature difference between the two hottest and 2 coldest cores. That's a lot. Also seems like my Arctic 420 tops out at around 260W or so reaching 100C. Is that normal?


I have an Arctic 420 also. Temps are good for me.

I have cooled 300watts plus. 260 should be no problem.


What case and where is the radiator mounted? If it is tubes up and circulating air it will reduce cooling efficiency. I tested it today for myself once again and tubes up i get 2-3 c higher temps as air is circulating thru the AIO(can be heard when pump is at full speed). In a worst case it could be much worse(5-10c plus), depends on CPU location in relation to top of radiator when front mounted with tubes up. Top mounted rad shouldnt be an issues.

Even custom water loop with air in the system will not cool as well as when fully bleed.


----------



## Technodox

For an AIO, can I get away with 240mm, or is it better to go 280mm?


----------



## Ichirou

Technodox said:


> For an AIO, can I get away with 240mm, or is it better to go 280mm?


For what it's worth, the NH-D15 is _enough_ for a 12900k. So take that with a grain of salt or whatever.
It's not going to be ideal though, and won't really offer any overclocking headroom.


----------



## Mad1137

Guys , I got Ek aio elite 360 , and 12900k 5.0ghz (All P cores ) with 1.268v , I got 85c in cb23 it's ok temps ? Or my aio broken ? Pls let me know


----------



## bscool

Mad1137 said:


> Guys , I got Ek aio elite 360 , and 12900k 5.0ghz (All P cores ) with 1.268v , I got 85c in cb23 it's ok temps ? Or my aio broken ? Pls let me know


It is fairly normal, a lot depends on case and airflow in general. To me it is high but sounds normal from what some others are posting.


----------



## Mad1137

bscool said:


> It is fairly normal, a lot depends on case and airflow in general. To me it is high but sounds normal from what some others are posting.


Case Asus ROG Helios , temps in room 23-24.


----------



## bscool

Mad1137 said:


> Case Asus ROG Helios , temps in room 23-24.


From what i know that case doesnt have the best ariflow so sounds about right to me.


----------



## Mad1137

bscool said:


> From what i know that case doesnt have the best ariflow so sounds about right to me.


Not best , but not worse )) just fine , I only want to know , 85c it's ok ?) With 1.268 and 5.0


----------



## bscool

Mad1137 said:


> Not best , but not worse )) just fine , I only want to know , 85c it's ok ?) With 1.268 and 5.0


Yeah that sounds fine to me.


----------



## Nizzen

Thebc2 said:


> Finally got my system together. Looks like a decent bin, let’s see how she does.
> 
> Pairing with an Apex and Teamgroup 6400. Time to starting tweaking. Originally had an Extreme but it was DOA, glad to end up with an Apex in the end.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Nice cpu 
Can't wait for your memory oc results


----------



## flashkillpro

bscool said:


> I have an Arctic 420 also. Temps are good for me.
> 
> I have cooled 300watts plus. 260 should be no problem.
> 
> 
> What case and where is the radiator mounted? If it is tubes up and circulating air it will reduce cooling efficiency. I tested it today for myself once again and tubes up i get 2-3 c higher temps as air is circulating thru the AIO(can be heard when pump is at full speed). In a worst case it could be much worse(5-10c plus), depends on CPU location in relation to top of radiator when front mounted with tubes up. Top mounted rad shouldnt be an issues.
> 
> Even custom water loop with air in the system will not cool as well as when fully bleed.


Phanteks Evolv X front mount, front panel and dust filter were removed. Tubes up because its the only way. Yeah I believe that it is a combination of things. My 260W results look similar to yours, maybe 10-11C difference at max, but I have 2 very hot cores that are 15C hotter than the rest. This gives me the higher temps, as well as me using slightly higher voltages because of a worse i7 12700k combined with the worse radiator placement. All seems to be within the normal range though still so I can stop worrying. I am mostly a gamer too so I can keep hyperthreading off and enjoy cool temps and not worry until I can get my hands on a 12900ks. Thank you for your help!


----------



## Lord Alzov

SP 85 daily 5300P 4200E 4400CACHE.
Stress stable.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Ichirou said:


> Can you explain in simple terms what AC_LL or DC_LL is?


Here is an explanation of loadlines...









ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...


Disclaimer ! These settings and methods are outside Intel's specifications, just like any other overclocking method. ---------------------------------------------------- For Z790/13900K click here Introduction: In a world increasingly concerned with natural resources, the watchword is...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Ichirou

RobertoSampaio said:


> Here is an explanation of loadlines...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...
> 
> 
> Disclaimer ! These settings and methods are outside Intel's specifications, just like any other overclocking method. ---------------------------------------------------- For Z790/13900K click here Introduction: In a world increasingly concerned with natural resources, the watchword is...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Looked at it, but the explanation for AC_LL and DC_LL still goes way above my head. I'm not too intelligent when it comes to very technical engineering science, unfortunately.
What sort of AC_LL and/or DC_LL values should I test or stay below if I use LLC 6 or 7 on an ASUS motherboard?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Ichirou said:


> Looked at it, but the explanation for AC_LL and DC_LL still goes way above my head. I'm not too intelligent when it comes to very technical engineering science, unfortunately.
> What sort of AC_LL and/or DC_LL values should I test or stay below if I use LLC 6 or 7 on an ASUS motherboard?


In my opinion, an LLC# >= 6 should be used only when you use a voltage override and just for benchmarks proposes. LLC#7 and 8 only with LN2. 
But you can use these high LLC setting for 24/7, but be awarded you are introducing a very high voltage spikes when you go from full load to idle. 
I don't think anything higher than LLC#4 is a solution for a game overclock.

The DC_LL always should match the LLC impedance, as you can see in the CPU data sheet:








Always use this rule, so your CPU will perform the correct POWER calculations.

The AC_LL rule is: Always use AC_LL < DC_LL, so you will be undervolting the CPU under load.

If you want to use a LLC#6 or 7 use a very low AC_LL. 

My suggestion is :

LLC#1
DC_LL = 1.75
AC_LL = 0.60

LLC#2
DC_LL = 1.46
AC_LL = 0.46

LLC#3
DC_LL 1.1
AC_LL 0.25

LLC#4
DC_LL 0.98
AC_LL 0.20 

If you want to use LLC >4, use AC_LL < 0.20.


----------



## Lord Alzov

RobertoSampaio said:


> In my opinion, an LLC# >= 6 should be used only when you use a voltage override and just for benchmarks proposes. LLC#7 and 8 only with LN2.
> But you can use these high LLC setting for 24/7, but be awarded you are introducing a very high voltage spikes when you go from full load to idle.
> I don't think anything higher than LLC#4 is a solution for a game overclock.
> 
> The DC_LL always should match the LLC impedance, as you can see in the CPU data sheet:
> View attachment 2541948
> 
> Always use this rule, so your CPU will perform the correct POWER calculations.
> 
> The AC_LL rule is: Always use AC_LL < DC_LL, so you will be undervolting the CPU under load.
> 
> If you want to use a LLC#6 or 7 use a very low AC_LL.
> 
> My suggestion is :
> 
> LLC#1
> DC_LL = 1.75
> AC_LL = 0.60
> 
> LLC#2
> DC_LL = 1.46
> AC_LL = 0.46
> 
> LLC#3
> DC_LL 1.1
> AC_LL 0.25
> 
> LLC#4
> DC_LL 0.98
> AC_LL 0.20
> 
> If you want to use LLC >4, use AC_LL < 0.20.


Lol what delusion. I use LLC7 for daily overclock. For 12900k only OVERRIDE its best choice 5300 all p core 4200 e core. LLC7 SMALL drop voltage. LLC4 USLESS for overclock bcs on high frequencies u will need 1.3+v on LOAD and on LLC4 it will 1.5+ on IDLE.


----------



## Arni90

Lord Alzov said:


> Lol what delusion. I use LLC7 for daily overclock. For 12900k only OVERRIDE its best choice 5300 all p core 4200 e core. LLC7 SMALL drop voltage. LLC4 USLESS for overclock bcs on high frequencies u will need 1.3+v on LOAD and on LLC4 it will 1.5+ on IDLE.


Do you really think it's dangerous to run 1.50V idle on Alder Lake? If it was, I would probably have blown up my chip at this point 

The voltage tolerance doesn't scale that much with cooling, it's the tolerance for current that increases significantly.


----------



## Ichirou

RobertoSampaio said:


> In my opinion, an LLC# >= 6 should be used only when you use a voltage override and just for benchmarks proposes. LLC#7 and 8 only with LN2.
> But you can use these high LLC setting for 24/7, but be awarded you are introducing a very high voltage spikes when you go from full load to idle.
> I don't think anything higher than LLC#4 is a solution for a game overclock.
> 
> The DC_LL always should match the LLC impedance, as you can see in the CPU data sheet:
> View attachment 2541948
> 
> Always use this rule, so your CPU will perform the correct POWER calculations.
> 
> The AC_LL rule is: Always use AC_LL < DC_LL, so you will be undervolting the CPU under load.
> 
> If you want to use a LLC#6 or 7 use a very low AC_LL.
> 
> My suggestion is :
> 
> LLC#1
> DC_LL = 1.75
> AC_LL = 0.60
> 
> LLC#2
> DC_LL = 1.46
> AC_LL = 0.46
> 
> LLC#3
> DC_LL 1.1
> AC_LL 0.25
> 
> LLC#4
> DC_LL 0.98
> AC_LL 0.20
> 
> If you want to use LLC >4, use AC_LL < 0.20.


So try setting AC_LL to 0.20, test stability, and gradually reduce it by -0.01 until it's unstable?
Should I leave DC_LL on Auto then?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Arni90 said:


> Do you really think it's dangerous to run 1.50V idle on Alder Lake? If it was, I would probably have blown up my chip at this point
> 
> The voltage tolerance doesn't scale that much with cooling, it's the tolerance for current that increases significantly.


No problem, 1.5v at idle...


----------



## Lord Alzov

Arni90 said:


> Do you really think it's dangerous to run 1.50V idle on Alder Lake? If it was, I would probably have blown up my chip at this point
> 
> The voltage tolerance doesn't scale that much with cooling, it's the tolerance for current that increases significantly.


its not about dangerous its about temp on game man. LLC 7 5300 game voltage 1.32. LLC4 will 1.45++++ LLC7 best on APEX for overclock.


----------



## Lord Alzov

RobertoSampaio said:


> No problem, 1.5v at idle...
> 
> View attachment 2541966


But HIGH temperture on not strong game.
Can u share full datasheet? ON intel not open link.
And what about VDDQ TX maximum safe voltage?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Ichirou said:


> So try setting AC_LL to 0.20, test stability, and gradually reduce it by -0.01 until it's unstable?
> Should I leave DC_LL on Auto then?


You need to set DC_LL according the LLC# you use.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Lord Alzov said:


> its not about dangerous its about temp on game man. LLC 7 5300 game voltage 1.32. LLC4 will 1.45++++ LLC7 best on APEX for overclock.



LLC#1
DC_LL = 1.76
AC_LL = 0.6
Adaptive = 1.47v


----------



## Ichirou

RobertoSampaio said:


> You need to set DC_LL according the LLC# you use.











So for LLC 6, set it to 0.49, and for LLC 7, set it to 0.24?

And for AC_LL, just set it to 0.20, or should I try to go as low as possible?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Ichirou said:


> So for LLC 6, set it to 0.49, and for LLC 7, set it to 0.24?
> 
> And for AC_LL, just set it to 0.20, or should I try to go as low as possible?


Yes...
LLC#6 use DC_LL=0.49 and AC_LL <0.2
LLC#7 use DC_LL=0.24 abd AC_LL <0.1
AC_LL use as low as possible.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Lord Alzov said:


> But HIGH temperture on not strong game.
> Can u share full datasheet? ON intel not open link.
> And what about VDDQ TX maximum safe voltage?


Go to Technical Documentation 










Product Specifications


quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.




ark.intel.com


----------



## Ichirou

RobertoSampaio said:


> Yes...
> LLC#6 use DC_LL=0.49 and AC_LL <0.2
> LLC#7 use DC_LL=0.24 abd AC_LL <0.1
> AC_LL use as low as possible.


So what exactly does tweaking DC_ and AC_LL do? Improve voltage efficiency and allow for more overclocking headroom?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Ichirou said:


> So what exactly does tweaking DC_ and AC_LL do? Improve voltage efficiency and allow for more overclocking headroom?


If you buy a computer, it is assumed that the manufacturer has adjusted the loadlines...
When you decide to buy the board and components, you are supposed to adjust the load lines.

The LLC is a parameter that change the way the VRM will deliver voltage (and power) to the CPU.
The CPU don't know the VRM characteristics, So you need to inform to the CPU the VRM characteristics, using the DC_LL.
The AC_LL is a factor that informs the CPU to increase the VID under load.
Intel default setting are LLC = DC_LL = AC_LL = 1,1mohms. But these values are very conservative.
If you want to overclock and undervolt you can manipulate these values to achieve your objective.


----------



## Ichirou

RobertoSampaio said:


> If you buy a computer, it is assumed that the manufacturer has adjusted the loadlines...
> When you decide to buy the board and components, you are supposed to adjust the load lines.
> 
> The LLC is a parameter that change the way the VRM will deliver voltage (and power) to the CPU.
> The CPU don't know the VRM characteristics, So you need to inform to the CPU the VRM characteristics, using the DC_LL.
> The AC_LL is a factor that informs the CPU to increase the VID under load.
> Intel default setting are LLC = DC_LL = AC_LL = 1,1mohms. But these values are very conservative.
> If you want to overclock and undervolt you can manipulate these values to achieve your objective.


Are the DC_LL values you stated for the Maximus applicable to _all_ ASUS motherboards, or only that specific one?
What is the proper way to find out what value the DC_LL is for a specific LLC on a specific motherboard that might not be the Maximus?
For example, what if it is on the Strix, or on an MSI, etc?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

If your MB has the DIE voltage sensor, you 1º need to decide the LLC you will use and then adjust the DC_LL for this LLC.

Example:
Let's say you want to use LLC#5.
So you set LLC#5, and DC_LL = 0.7 and AC_LL < 0.35.
After that, you run a stress test and compare the VID to Vcore and the VRM_Power to IA_Core_Power.
If VID > Vcore at full load (or IA_Core_Power > VRM_Power) you need to rise DC_LL.
If VID < Vocre (or IA_Core_Power < VRM_Power) you need to lower DC_LL.
When VID match VCore at full load, you had adjusted the DC_LL.
These values will not match perfectly, but they will be very closer.

Look to the "VID" and "VCore" /" VRM power" and "IA_Core_power" when I run a stress test...

I'm using LLC#1 and DC_LL 1.76 (calibrated), so the CPU perform the correct calcs.











If your MB doesn't have the Die-Sense, it's not so easy...
You need to adjust DC_LL in a way that Vcore will be a few millivolts higher than VID.


----------



## Ichirou

RobertoSampaio said:


> If your MB has the DIE voltage sensor, you 1º need to decide the LLC you will use and then adjust the DC_LL for this LLC.
> 
> Example:
> Let's say you want to use LLC#5.
> So you set LLC#5, and DC_LL = 0.7 and AC_LL < 0.35.
> After that, you run a stress test and compare the VID to Vcore and the VRM_Power to IA_Core_Power.
> If VID > Vcore at full load (or IA_Core_Power > VRM_Power) you need to rise DC_LL.
> If VID < Vocre (or IA_Core_Power < VRM_Power) you need to lower DC_LL.
> When VID match VCore at full load, you had adjusted the DC_LL.
> These values will not match perfectly, but they will be very closer.
> 
> Look to the "VID" and "VCore" /" VRM power" and "IA_Core_power" when I run a stress test...
> 
> I'm using LLC#1 and DC_LL 1.76 (calibrated), so the CPU perform the correct calcs.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2541972
> 
> 
> If your MB doesn't have the Die-Sense, it's not so easy...
> You need to adjust DC_LL in a way that Vcore will be a few millivolts higher than VID.


Okay, I'm testing out my Z390 with a stress test. Haven't adjusted DC_ or AC_LL yet.
In HWInfo, the VIDs are around 1.40-1.41V (average 1.40V), while Vcore is 1.39-1.43V (average 1.39V). They fluctuate.

On idle, the current and average VID values tend to be higher than the Vcore.
Should I adjust DC_ and AC_LL in this case, or are they roughly accurate enough on Auto that I shouldn't need to?

Of course, I'll check again on Z690, but I'm just wondering about this PC for now.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Ichirou said:


> Okay, I'm testing out my Z390 with a stress test. Haven't adjusted DC_ or AC_LL yet.
> In HWInfo, the VIDs are around 1.40-1.41V (average 1.40V), while Vcore is 1.39-1.43V (average 1.39V). They fluctuate.
> 
> On idle, the current and average VID values tend to be higher than the Vcore.
> Should I adjust DC_ and AC_LL in this case, or are they roughly accurate enough on Auto that I shouldn't need to?
> 
> Of course, I'll check again on Z690, but I'm just wondering about this PC for now.


At idle and light loads, you will have VID and VCore floating around all the time. Adjust DC_LL at full load.


----------



## Ichirou

RobertoSampaio said:


> At idle and light loads, you will have VID and VCore floating around all the time. Adjust DC_LL at full load.


I actually did test it on load; I did that before idle readings 


> Okay, I'm testing out my Z390 with a stress test. Haven't adjusted DC_ or AC_LL yet.
> In HWInfo, the VIDs are around 1.40-1.41V (average 1.40V), while Vcore is 1.39-1.43V (average 1.39V). They fluctuate.


----------



## Hfhjfg

Hey folks,
What are your voltages (die sense or socket sense) for 56x and 57x?

I can run 4 cores of my CPU at 55x with 1.39 socket sense. But 56x doesn't work even with 1.44 volts socket sense. I'm on EK water, temps are bellow 60.

LLC = 5, AC_LL = 0.12, CPU is stable in CB23, P95, GB5. But as soon as I set 2 best cores to 56x for OCTVB <65 degree Celsius, it can't even pass CB23 single core test at 1.44v SS.

Should I try go beyond 1.45v for 56x-57x ?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Hfhjfg said:


> Hey folks,
> What are your voltages (die sense or socket sense) for 56x and 57x?
> 
> I can run 4 cores of my CPU at 55x with 1.39 socket sense. But 56x doesn't work even with 1.44 volts socket sense. I'm on EK water, temps are bellow 60.
> 
> LLC = 5, AC_LL = 0.12, CPU is stable in CB23, P95, GB5. But as soon as I set 2 best cores to 56x for OCTVB <65 degree Celsius, it can't even pass CB23 single core test at 1.44v SS.
> 
> Should I try go beyond 1.45v for 56x-57x ?




























By core adaptive voltage:


----------



## Hfhjfg

RobertoSampaio said:


> View attachment 2541994
> 
> View attachment 2541995
> 
> View attachment 2541996
> 
> 
> By core adaptive voltage:
> View attachment 2541999
> 
> 
> View attachment 2541998
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2541997


Thank you Roberto!
So you can run 57x for temps bellow 55 with vCore bellow 1.519? What is your real die sense vCore in CB23 1T for these settings? 🙏🏾


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Hfhjfg said:


> Thank you Roberto!
> So you can run 57x for temps bellow 55 with vCore bellow 1.519? What is your real die sense vCore in CB23 1T for these settings? 🙏🏾


Full load P-51x/E-40x/R-36x - R23 Vcore=1.17v


----------



## Falkentyne

Ichirou said:


> Okay, I'm testing out my Z390 with a stress test. Haven't adjusted DC_ or AC_LL yet.
> In HWInfo, the VIDs are around 1.40-1.41V (average 1.40V), while Vcore is 1.39-1.43V (average 1.39V). They fluctuate.
> 
> On idle, the current and average VID values tend to be higher than the Vcore.
> Should I adjust DC_ and AC_LL in this case, or are they roughly accurate enough on Auto that I shouldn't need to?
> 
> Of course, I'll check again on Z690, but I'm just wondering about this PC for now.


ACLL on Z390 is much different than on Z690 and should not be compared.
ACLL on Z390 boosts native VID by inrush current (amps * ACLL mohms) + VID. 1.6 mOhms ACLL (Intel spec for 8 core) on adaptive vcore should be perfectly safe as long as you use a relaxed loadline calibration level. Usual idle is around 1.4v at 5 ghz with a loose LLC, with full load being around 1.25-1.4v (Depending on your LLC).

Using 1.1 mohms ACLL on Z690 is instant 1.6v at idle with no load at all.


----------



## AvengedRobix

RobertoSampaio said:


> View attachment 2541994
> 
> View attachment 2541995
> 
> View attachment 2541996
> 
> 
> By core adaptive voltage:
> View attachment 2541999
> 
> 
> View attachment 2541998
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2541997


What Is It this "Intel controlla" tools? 

Inviato dal mio ONEPLUS A6013 utilizzando Tapatalk


----------



## ScomComputers

RobertoSampaio said:


> Full load P-51x/E-40x/R-36x - R23 Vcore=1.17v


*I really thank you for all your help and information!I have learned a lot from it,if you live near me I would buy you a beer ! Thank you and live long and healthy !
*


----------



## timd78

Hi guys,

Is there a way for me to find my silicon quality on a 12900k on a Gigabyte AORUS Pro DDR5?


----------



## Nizzen

timd78 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Is there a way for me to find my silicon quality on a 12900k on a Gigabyte AORUS Pro DDR5?


No. Test on a Asus maximum board, or just try the cpu LoL


----------



## RobertoSampaio

AvengedRobix said:


> What Is It this "Intel controlla" tools?
> 
> Inviato dal mio ONEPLUS A6013 utilizzando Tapatalk


It's an Asus OCing Tool for Maximus and Strix boards.
It works in a z490/z590/z690 as far I know.

You can download it here.









OCTool_ADL1121.zip


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## pitter

is cpu phase mode and vrm frequency safe if set to extreme and 500 kmh ?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

pitter said:


> is cpu phase mode and vrm frequency safe if set to extreme and 500 kmh ?


It is...
Here you will find a good explanation about phase mode and switching frequency.

Just take a look if you will have any benefit changing these parameters or if you are just going to make your VRM run hot.


----------



## Arni90

timd78 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Is there a way for me to find my silicon quality on a 12900k on a Gigabyte AORUS Pro DDR5?


Yes, find the maximum stable frequency for a given benchmark, and compare to people with similar cooling.


----------



## pitter

RobertoSampaio said:


> It is...
> Here you will find a good explanation about phase mode and switching frequency.
> 
> Just take a look if you will have any benefit changing these parameters or if you are just going to make your VRM run hot.


I use auto vcore with offaet -0.07 , this only works if phase extreme and vrm freq 500 . If i turn Auto these 2 then it freezes before windows load


----------



## digitalfrost

Apparently you can improve cooling performance by 5°C simply by using 1mm washers:









Alder Lake’s cooling problem straightened out by 5 degrees! - Simple ILM-Mod for Intel’s LGA-1700 socket | Practice | igor'sLAB


Intel's Alder Lake CPUs run hot, very hot. A few weeks ago, Igor had already identified the bending of the CPU and motherboard due to the LGA1700 socket as a potential cause for this. Today I'




www.igorslab.de


----------



## ScomComputers

Hello....
I have a question, if I use a fixed vcore OC, does it make sense to calibrate AC/DC_LL ?
Thanks for your help !


----------



## IronAge

digitalfrost said:


> Apparently you can improve cooling performance by 5°C simply by using 1mm washers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alder Lake’s cooling problem straightened out by 5 degrees! - Simple ILM-Mod for Intel’s LGA-1700 socket | Practice | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> Intel's Alder Lake CPUs run hot, very hot. A few weeks ago, Igor had already identified the bending of the CPU and motherboard due to the LGA1700 socket as a potential cause for this. Today I'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de


for boards with lousy socket and heatsink backplate, it just helps to avoid the bending when you mount a cpu.


----------



## EarlZ

How's the binning on the 12900K vs 12900KF or is it too early to tell?


----------



## sugi0lover

Some people around me are still binning 12900K and it seems like it's getting harder to get high SP 12900K.


----------



## Hfhjfg

sugi0lover said:


> Some people around me are still binning 12900K and it seems like it's getting harder to get high SP 12900K.
> View attachment 2542352


Intel holds best binned CPU to use them in upcoming KS release


----------



## Brandur

My 12900k runs stable at 5.1Ghz/4.0Ghz and I set 1.34V in Bios @LLC4 (max. VID is also 1.34V). When I run Cinebench R20, the Vcore drops to 1.172V. Is this drop dangerous and how can I avoid it? Wrong LLC or wrong Vcore in Bios?


----------



## pitter

Brandur said:


> My 12900k runs stable at 5.1Ghz/4.0Ghz and I set 1.34V in Bios @LLC4. When I run Cinebench R20, the Vcore dropps to 1.172V. Is this dropp dangerous and how can I avoid it? Wrong LLC or wrong Vcore in Bios?


why should it be dangerous ? its vdroop, if you want minimal drop try llc5 with like 1.27-1.30 and see what load you get


----------



## CENS

vdrop is perfectly normal and healthy


----------



## Brandur

So a bigger Vdroop ist not bad? Vcore (idle) is my max. VID, so this is ok? As long as load Vcore drops under idle Vcore is safe?


----------



## CENS

VID and Vcore is not the same thing. Some boards you can read VID in CPU-Z some read actual Vcore. Imho good way to check is with hwinfo tool. VID is kinda from factory to keep that simple. Vcore is what the mobo actually feeds the CPU. If you set for example 1.3v in bios manually, you get something like 1.292v in windows during idle and much lower under load. Thats normal behavior. In simple terms for the same requested voltage -> more current = lower volt. Your VRM actually needs vdroop to detect if a cpu gets load and supplies more current. Therefor more vdroop is usually better for that transient response.

So if a CPU needs lets say 1.2v during load like R20 to run 5.1GHz stable, you can either put 1.35v into bios with low LLC (Loadline calibration) level so it will droop a lot (which has it's benefits as explained earlier) or you can put 1.21v for instance into the bios with very aggressive high level LLC so you get virtually no vdroop. But that might not be the most ideal and stable combo, plus you'll get voltage spikes that you won't see in regular monitoring software. 

So no reason to be worried about high volt under idle.


----------



## Brandur

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation !


----------



## Ichirou

Was talking about it here, but, does anyone have any suggestions for how to break the 4,200 MHz RAM frequency wall on the Strix Z690-A? Definitely seems like something is wrong with my motherboard. Limited Edition GALAX HOF Tempest DDR4-5000 CL19 2x8 GB...


----------



## LionAlonso

Ichirou said:


> Was talking about it here, but, does anyone have any suggestions for how to break the 4,200 MHz RAM frequency wall on the Strix Z690-A? Definitely seems like something is wrong with my motherboard. Limited Edition GALAX HOF Tempest DDR4-5000 CL19 2x8 GB...


It could be MB of course,
But it could also be IMC, if you cant even get that frequency with loosened timings on that kit its strange.
Remember IMC bin its different from SP score, have u tried if u can tight timings a lot at gear 1? 4100 cl 14?


----------



## Ichirou

LionAlonso said:


> It could be MB of course,
> But it could also be IMC, if you cant even get that frequency with loosened timings on that kit its strange.
> Remember IMC bin its different from SP score, have u tried if u can tight timings a lot at gear 1? 4100 cl 14?


12900k P-core 98, E-core disabled

4,174 CL14 flat on Gear 1 works just fine. 4,200+ MHz on literally any fathomable setting; just doesn't boot.
Been testing out a ton of different BIOSes, no real luck.

I do seem to get some semblance of stability with VCCSA at 1.45V, but I don't think that's normal.
There's definitely something going on with the motherboard, but I can't put my finger on what.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Ichirou said:


> Was talking about it here, but, does anyone have any suggestions for how to break the 4,200 MHz RAM frequency wall on the Strix Z690-A? Definitely seems like something is wrong with my motherboard. Limited Edition GALAX HOF Tempest DDR4-5000 CL19 2x8 GB...


I also think it’s the motherboard. I can boot just under 4200 with 1.5 SA but the motherboard won’t allow me to boot anything higher than 1.5 SA.


----------



## CENS

might be IMC wall in gear1 not the mem or board. Or the IMC doesn't like that specific divider. That was often the case with Z590. Try some >4200


----------



## Ichirou

geriatricpollywog said:


> I also think it’s the motherboard. I can boot just under 4200 with 1.5 SA but the motherboard won’t allow me to boot anything higher than 1.5 SA.





CENS said:


> might be IMC wall in gear1 not the mem or board. Or the IMC doesn't like that specific divider. That was often the case with Z590. Try some >4200


Suggestions for frequencies to test? I've also tried 4,300 to no avail; loosened. Doesn't work on Gear 2 either. Also tried super loose 4,600 and 4,800.

Should I change anything in regards to VCCSA/VDDQ or any other settings, or leave everything on Auto?
DRAM Voltage will stay at 1.60V for now since that's what it's rated for at XMP. Doubt it would cause any problems anyway.

I have nothing installed on the motherboard except for the CPU and cooler, M.2 NVMe, PSU cables, and RAM.
FWIW, the CPU was prebinned and tested at 4,300 CL14 1T, but on an MSI Edge, release BIOS. So the IMC shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## ScomComputers

Hello,please help me,I have a 12900K,I use it on allcore 5200/4100,BUT under games I never see the E cores running at 4100,always 3900,in all games,why is that ?
Thank you very much for your help !
Asus Z690 Strix A D4 is the motherboard.


----------



## dante`afk

8c drop with washer mod from igorslab


__
https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/s2a1gk


----------



## shrimpmaster

Ichirou said:


> Suggestions for frequencies to test? I've also tried 4,300 to no avail; loosened. Doesn't work on Gear 2 either. Also tried super loose 4,600 and 4,800.
> 
> Should I change anything in regards to VCCSA/VDDQ or any other settings, or leave everything on Auto?
> DRAM Voltage will stay at 1.60V for now since that's what it's rated for at XMP. Doubt it would cause any problems anyway.
> 
> I have nothing installed on the motherboard except for the CPU and cooler, M.2 NVMe, PSU cables, and RAM.
> FWIW, the CPU was prebinned and tested at 4,300 CL14 1T, but on an MSI Edge, release BIOS. So the IMC shouldn't be an issue.


If it doesn't work on Gear 2 I'd say the problem is the board. Ony my z690 tuf, which is pretty much the same thing as the strix it works very well up to 4600mhz gear2, with b-die.
I also assume you're "only" using 2x16gb on the preferred slots. These boards are daisy chain and don't like to run 4 sticks at high frequencies.


----------



## Ichirou

shrimpmaster said:


> If it doesn't work on Gear 2 I'd say the problem is the board. Ony my z690 tuf, which is pretty much the same thing as the strix it works very well up to 4600mhz gear2, with b-die.
> I also assume you're "only" using 2x16gb on the preferred slots. These boards are daisy chain and don't like to run 4 sticks at high frequencies.


Yeah, the kit I have is actually a 2x8 GB B-die kit. Isn't ASUS T-Topology though?

I'm not sure what would happen if I attempt to RMA the board (they might just send it back). It seems like a more practical method would be to simply swap the board entirely and sell this one at a loss. Maybe swapping with an MSI Edge.


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> Yeah, the kit I have is actually a 2x8 GB B-die kit. Isn't ASUS T-Topology though?
> 
> I'm not sure what would happen if I attempt to RMA the board (they might just send it back). It seems like a more practical method would be to simply swap the board entirely and sell this one at a loss. Maybe swapping with an MSI Edge.


My 2 cent if it was the board you wouldnt be able to run 4200. I sent you screens of me running 4266 1t gear 1 on Strix d4.

It may be the board as in there are better and weaker samples like anyhting. You could test 100 MB of the exact same model and there is going to be some variance.

It will be intresting if you get an edge and find the same thing. You still need to test each dim and each slot to find your "weak" link on the Strix.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

dante`afk said:


> 8c drop with washer mod from igorslab
> 
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/s2a1gk


I'm thinking to try this...
What washer did you use?


----------



## Luggage

Ichirou said:


> Yeah, the kit I have is actually a 2x8 GB B-die kit. Isn't ASUS T-Topology though?
> 
> I'm not sure what would happen if I attempt to RMA the board (they might just send it back). It seems like a more practical method would be to simply swap the board entirely and sell this one at a loss. Maybe swapping with an MSI Edge.


Long time since any one made T-topology for consumer motherboards.


----------



## dante`afk

it's not my post, you need to use 1mm nylon washers.

someone else did lose the Torx screws of the LGA1700 socket retention by 1/4 and gained 5c also.


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> My 2 cent if it was the board you wouldnt be able to run 4200. I sent you screens of me running 4266 1t gear 1 on Strix d4.
> 
> It may be the board as in there are better and weaker samples like anyhting. You could test 100 MB of the exact same model and there is going to be some variance.
> 
> It will be intresting if you get an edge and find the same thing. You still need to test each dim and each slot to find your "weak" link on the Strix.


There is a possibility that my RAM sticks may be faulty, but I kind of doubt that. I'll bin and report back with the results in the Galax thread.


Luggage said:


> Long time since any one made T-topology for consumer motherboards.


Oh, I wasn't aware that ASUS dropped T-Topology. That makes swapping to an MSI Edge more promising then. (I could "exchange" it for another Strix, but I'm the kind of person who doesn't like sticking to a product once it fails once.)

If they both use Daisy Chain now, does it really matter which board I even go with?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Does anyone know when the 12900KS will release? I have 3 days to return my 12900K. I’ll probably do that and switch to Z590.


----------



## Luggage

Ichirou said:


> There is a possibility that my RAM sticks may be faulty, but I kind of doubt that. I'll bin and report back with the results in the Galax thread.
> 
> Oh, I wasn't aware that ASUS dropped T-Topology. That makes swapping to an MSI Edge more promising then. (I could "exchange" it for another Strix, but I'm the kind of person who doesn't like sticking to a product once it fails once.)
> 
> If they both use Daisy Chain now, does it really matter which board I even go with?


Since z490 Z490 motherboard guide: ROG Maximus XII and ROG Strix boards unleash the power of Intel 10th Gen Core CPUs | ROG - Republic of Gamers Global

Of course it matters; traces, shielding, design - but not as much and more with bios.


----------



## Ichirou

Luggage said:


> Since z490 Z490 motherboard guide: ROG Maximus XII and ROG Strix boards unleash the power of Intel 10th Gen Core CPUs | ROG - Republic of Gamers Global
> 
> Of course it matters; traces, shielding, design - but not as much and more with bios.


I see. So would you advise swapping motherboards, or just testing out more BIOS versions first?

I did some binning, and A2 can't do 4,200 MHz Gear 1 but B2 can do 4,300 MHz Gear 1 (unstable). CL14 is unstable while CL15 has some consistency.


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> I see. So would you advise swapping motherboards, or just testing out more BIOS versions first?
> 
> I did some binning, and A2 can't do 4,200 MHz Gear 1 but B2 can do 4,300 MHz Gear 1 (unstable). CL14 is unstable while CL15 has some consistency.


Something else i wonder if using the lga 1700 mount will matter or are you using that now? I think when at the limit even something like that may matter.


----------



## Luggage

Ichirou said:


> I see. So would you advise swapping motherboards, or just testing out more BIOS versions first?
> 
> I did some binning, and A2 can't do 4,200 MHz Gear 1 but B2 can do 4,300 MHz Gear 1 (unstable). CL14 is unstable while CL15 has some consistency.


Ask here [Official] Intel Z690 / DDR4 Daily Memory Overclock


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> Something else i wonder if using the lga 1700 mount will matter or are you using that now? I think when at the limit even something like that may matter.


This NH-D15 didn't even come with an LGA1200 mount. But for whatever reason, one of their old 115X mounts works just fine?


Luggage said:


> Ask here [Official] Intel Z690 / DDR4 Daily Memory Overclock


I totally forgot about that thread, lol. But I've more or less pinpointed the issue so far.
Definitely feels like poorly binned memory slots. I'll try fiddling with some more BIOSes, but I'm not expecting much.


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> This NH-D15 didn't even come with an LGA1200 mount. But for whatever reason, one of their old 115X mounts works just fine?
> 
> I totally forgot about that thread, lol. But I've more or less pinpointed the issue so far.
> Definitely feels like poorly binned memory slots. I'll try fiddling with some more BIOSes, but I'm not expecting much.


Yeah but that will effect mounting pressure and could make a difference in 4200 vs 4266. Not saying it will but without proper mounting pressure I wouldnt blame the MB yet.

you need lga1700 for correct pressure.

I know on past gens people talked about mounting pressure effecting mem oc and I dont think z690 would be any different.

When pushing the limits every little thing matters or can make a difference


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> Yeah but that will effect mounting pressure and could make a difference in 4200 vs 4266. Not saying it will but without proper mounting pressure I wouldnt blame the MB yet.
> 
> you need lga1700 for correct pressure.
> 
> I know on past gens people talked about mounting pressure effecting mem oc and I dont think z690 would be any different.
> 
> When pushing the limits every little thing matters or can make a difference


Hm, I've certainly never considered that possibility. I have requested an LGA1700 bracket from Noctua already, so I suppose I could hold off and retest once it arrives. It's not like I can refund this board anymore, anyway.

The bracket would be good for the MSI Edge as well, since that board would need it.


----------



## CallMeODZ

Ichirou said:


> I see. So would you advise swapping motherboards, or just testing out more BIOS versions first?







might be worth checking out his channel, iirc hes done some ddr4/690 on asus and gigabyte
could be useful tracking down the asus video and comparing notes


----------



## Hfhjfg

Finished playing with overclocking and started another exciting game - undervolting 
The goal was to reduce power consumption and voltage as much as possible but don't go below CPU's stock performance.

First results:
CB23 runs at 0.971 volts / 140 watts / core MAX temperature is 46 (average ~ 44)
Still scores 26`770

















LLC = 3
AC_LL = 0.01
pCore MAX = 48x
eCore MAX = 37x
ring MAX = 36
power limit = 150 watts

Just for fun ran Prime 95 small FFTs AVX, still below 50 degrees Celsius, but it was limited by 150 watts power limit


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Hfhjfg said:


> Finished playing with overclocking and started another exciting game - undervolting
> The goal was to reduce power consumption and voltage as much as possible but don't go below CPU's stock performance.
> 
> First results:
> CB23 runs at 0.971 volts / 140 watts / core MAX temperature is 46 (average ~ 44)
> Still scores 26`770
> 
> View attachment 2542484
> View attachment 2542485
> 
> 
> LLC = 3
> AC_LL = 0.01
> pCore MAX = 48x
> eCore MAX = 37x
> ring MAX = 36
> power limit = 150 watts
> 
> Just for fun ran Prime 95 small FFTs AVX, still below 50 degrees Celsius, but it was limited by 150 watts power limit
> View attachment 2542486


You can try the best of the 2 worlds...
Undervolt at full load and use higher voltages to set OCTVB to high frequencies...
And don't worry about high voltages at idle and light loads... take a look at the 12900k data sheet...


----------



## Hfhjfg

Thanks! 
I think I start understanding how to cook lower LLCs


----------



## ilmazzo

RobertoSampaio said:


> You can try the best of the 2 worlds...
> Undervolt at full load and use higher voltages to set OCTVB to high frequencies...
> And don't worry about high voltages at idle and light loads... take a look at the 12900k data sheet...
> 
> View attachment 2542636


Roberto a unrelated question....can you point me to where to download such documentations/white paper please? I'm interested to see if I can find documentation regarding old intel platforms like 486, Pentiums and so on.....thanks in advance!!!!!


----------



## CENS

Guys did anyone find relatively high sp vietnam chip here? like sp94+


----------



## Nizzen

CENS said:


> Guys did anyone find relatively high sp vietnam chip here? like sp94+


I've seen high vietnam and china... Looks like both have the same luck for high SP.


----------



## HellionGR

Hello everyone after a long absence i am back in the forum.
Had the chance to bin 2 cpu from the same production week i ll post the performance estimate screenshots and waiting for your feedback.
From the first look sp88 seems a proper choice same lousy e cores but slightly better pcores.
The thing that make me wonder though is the sp85 one has serial core quality allignment and better p core light/heavy score.
Dont mind the difference in cooler performance 2nd one was fast deployment ill re sit it.

Both running on APEX z690 c36 Gskill 6000 c36 and an arctic series 280 aio on top with lga1700 bracket.


----------



## DSHG87

Since which Batch / week the binnings of 12900K had to become worse? Are CPUs under 40 better?

And is it true the newer 12900K getting worse because of upcoming KS? It seems that the oldest 12900K like week 31/32 are the best.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

ilmazzo said:


> Roberto a unrelated question....can you point me to where to download such documentations/white paper please? I'm interested to see if I can find documentation regarding old intel platforms like 486, Pentiums and so on.....thanks in advance!!!!!


Go to 
Technical Documentation









Product Specifications


quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.




ark.intel.com


----------



## HellionGR

DSHG87 said:


> Since which Batch / week the binnings of 12900K had to become worse? Are CPUs under 40 better?
> 
> And is it true the newer 12900K getting worse because of upcoming KS? It seems that the oldest 12900K like week 31/32 are the best.


Got 2 44 weekers both under 90 SP also vast majority of people that i know that got 12900kf after week 40 are struggling to get a ln above average chip.My guess is after week40 provided the production rate of alderlake is very good and im guessing the yields also INTEL started binning everything above 90 SP for 12900ks.
The above statement is also market wise true if you consider the price of 12900k here in Europe dropped significantly while purchases are still on the roof.Probably a marketing strategy to add another price range product(12900ks) above the existing and remain below 700$ price ceiling.
To the friend who asked when 12900ks is gonna drop there is a rumour of February 10th release.


----------



## Lord Alzov

DSHG87 said:


> Since which Batch / week the binnings of 12900K had to become worse? Are CPUs under 40 better?
> 
> And is it true the newer 12900K getting worse because of upcoming KS? It seems that the oldest 12900K like week 31/32 are the best.


Its only your opinion lol i have FIRST 12900k first week and sp77 LOL. ITs just random. 90+SP 5% CPU


----------



## Lord Alzov

HellionGR said:


> Got 2 44 weekers both under 90 SP also vast majority of people that i know that got 12900kf after week 40 are struggling to get a ln above average chip.My guess is after week40 provided the production rate of alderlake is very good and im guessing the yields also INTEL started binning everything above 90 SP for 12900ks.
> The above statement is also market wise true if you consider the price of 12900k here in Europe dropped significantly while purchases are still on the roof.Probably a marketing strategy to add another price range product(12900ks) above the existing and remain below 700$ price ceiling.
> To the friend who asked when 12900ks is gonna drop there is a rumour of February 10th release.


No I check many batch and I didn't see the connection between Batch and sp


----------



## Thebc2

HellionGR said:


> Got 2 44 weekers both under 90 SP also vast majority of people that i know that got 12900kf after week 40 are struggling to get a ln above average chip.My guess is after week40 provided the production rate of alderlake is very good and im guessing the yields also INTEL started binning everything above 90 SP for 12900ks.
> The above statement is also market wise true if you consider the price of 12900k here in Europe dropped significantly while purchases are still on the roof.Probably a marketing strategy to add another price range product(12900ks) above the existing and remain below 700$ price ceiling.
> To the friend who asked when 12900ks is gonna drop there is a rumour of February 10th release.


I have a week 42 SP94 from Vietnam.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


----------



## dante`afk

maybe my heatkiller IV is just as good as it gets;
22c water temp. cb23 run


----------



## Nizzen

dante`afk said:


> maybe my heatkiller IV is just as good as it gets;
> 22c water temp. cb23 run
> 
> View attachment 2542885


Nice 

One core is minimum 17c. How is that possible with 22c water?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I think I figured out how Asus calculates OCTVB temperature profiles...

If you use asus "By Core" and "OCTVB profile", could you please help me and test if the spreadsheet is doing the correct temperature calculations?










ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...


This doesn't necessarily mean that is safe or that won't cause damage to the processor. Read the note below that (which was first added in the 8th/9th gen specification sheet for 8 core SKU). "The controller requires IMVP9 (whatever version) controller needs to have offset voltage capability (on...




www.overclock.net


----------



## dante`afk

Nizzen said:


> Nice
> 
> One core is minimum 17c. How is that possible with 22c water?


i dont hwinfo reading is correct


----------



## JSHamlet234

Nizzen said:


> One core is minimum 17c. How is that possible with 22c water?


Those sensors have been inaccurate at the low-end of the range for many generations.


----------



## HiLuckyB

With 18-20c water temp I see minimum of 13-14c, But my RTX 3090 idle right at the water temp.
Feels like software or the sensors don't work well on the low end like other's are saying.


----------



## CallMeODZ

my temps go crazy when i configure bios to follow scatterbenchers 5.5ghz oc's
the idle is 0 at times, something to do with adaptive voltage - i think you can find a thread here called "i just got done talking with intel" some dude returned his cpu because of it 😂thread






this feature confirmed on hero/apex so far
interested to see 12900 results :O


----------



## LionAlonso

CallMeODZ said:


> my temps go crazy when i configure bios to follow scatterbenchers 5.5ghz oc's
> the idle is 0 at times, something to do with adaptive voltage - i think you can find a thread here called "i just got done talking with intel" some dude returned his cpu because of it 😂thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this feature confirmed on hero/apex so far
> interested to see 12900 results :O


Will be patched


----------



## fray_bentos

Ichirou said:


> This NH-D15 didn't even come with an LGA1200 mount. But for whatever reason, one of their old 115X mounts works just fine?
> 
> I totally forgot about that thread, lol. But I've more or less pinpointed the issue so far.
> Definitely feels like poorly binned memory slots. I'll try fiddling with some more BIOSes, but I'm not expecting much.


LGA115X and LGA1200 have identical dimensions, that's why.


----------



## Ichirou

fray_bentos said:


> LGA115X and LGA1200 have identical dimensions, that's why.


Is there any meaningful difference in practice? Does an improper bracket really make a big difference in stability?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Push a chip to the limit with linx
5.5/4.3/4.6. 25c water. Xmp ram.


----------



## Lord Alzov

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Push a chip to the limit with linx
> 5.5/4.3/4.6. 25c water. Xmp ram.
> 
> View attachment 2543255


Its not 5500 man, its fake or -AVX offset.
On 5200mhz 4200 ecore 4400cache GFLOPS 830+ U have only 790 its not 5500 its like 5000.


----------



## Nizzen

Lord Alzov said:


> Its not 5500 man, its fake or -AVX offset.
> On 5200mhz 4200 ecore 4400cache GFLOPS 830+ U have only 790 its not 5500 its like 5000.
> View attachment 2543258


Not same settings as you?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Lord Alzov said:


> Its not 5500 man, its fake or -AVX offset.
> On 5200mhz 4200 ecore 4400cache GFLOPS 830+ U have only 790 its not 5500 its like 5000.
> View attachment 2543258


Cpuz and hwinfo show 5.5 and u said its fake. Weird.


----------



## Lord Alzov

Nizzen said:


> Not same settings as you?


He have not 5500 mhz. On 5300 its 870+ on 5200 its 830+. 5500 mhz 900+


----------



## Lord Alzov

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Cpuz and hwinfo show 5.5 and u said its fake. Weird.


Yes its fake, thats reason why u cant high FPS on tomb rider. U have gflosp like 5000mhz.


----------



## Nizzen

Lord Alzov said:


> Yes its fake, thats reason why u cant high FPS on tomb rider. U have gflosp like 5000mhz.


Does memory matter in this test? I don't know. Never testet, never will 
Maybe you can show ut with the same settings as Thanh Nguyen ?


----------



## Hfhjfg

To be fair, I can imagine 1 scenario where this is may be not fake and not -AVX offset.

If you set very low ring ratio like 8x or even 4x it can run 5.5 all cores AVX-0. But yes, gFlops will be on the level of CPU running 5.0Ghz with a normal ring ratio.


----------



## Lord Alzov

Nizzen said:


> Does memory matter in this test? I don't know. Never testet, never will





Nizzen said:


> Does memory matter in this test? I don't know. Never testet, never will
> Maybe you can show ut with the same settings as Thanh Nguyen ?


Yes i can. Its 5200 and MORE Gflops lol. I think he Overclock not from bios. And just apply setting from windows.


----------



## ObviousCough

Yesterday I learned my ring clock can run higher in windows 11 than 10.

I was doing 52P and 50 Ring for daily no problems on 11. Went back to 10 and the same stable settings were giving me IRQ bsod 
Dropped it down to 49 and no more crashing under load.


----------



## 2500k_2

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Push a chip to the limit with linx
> 5.5/4.3/4.6. 25c water. Xmp ram.
> 
> View attachment 2543255


Good result! Congratulations!
But unfortunately I think there are few gflops for 5.5 GHz. Show the EFFECTIVE frequency in HW info. Perhaps the processor lacks voltage and it throttles and resets the EFFICIENT frequency, leaving 5.5 GHz fundamental.
Alderlake has very interesting throttling.
Please test from the Effective Frequency readings. Thank you.
P.s I am inattentive. You have XMP. xD.


----------



## pitter

was wondering if its normal that only 1core stays at 66c while the rest 7cores 75-77c while cinebench load? Idle are the same


----------



## HiLuckyB

pitter said:


> was wondering if its normal that only 1core stays at 66c while the rest 7cores 75-77c while cinebench load? Idle are the same
> View attachment 2543281


Even delided with a direct die waterblock on my 12900K I have 1 core that's 10-12c lower then the rest. That core is also the one I can run higher then the rest of the cores. Like I can run 5.4GHz 1.35v but that 1 core runs just fine at 5.5GHz.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Lord Alzov said:


> Yes i can. Its 5200 and MORE Gflops lol. I think he Overclock not from bios. And just apply setting from windows.
> View attachment 2543274


I oc in the bios. Not sure what is going on.


----------



## Hfhjfg

pitter said:


> was wondering if its normal that only 1core stays at 66c while the rest 7cores 75-77c while cinebench load? Idle are the same
> View attachment 2543281


Probably it's your best core, overclock it


----------



## CallMeODZ

Thanh Nguyen said:


> I oc in the bios. Not sure what is going on.


using BCLK? when i use BCLK + adaptive vcore it drops my effective clock -2 
but BCLK + manual vcore no negative penalty (this was in cinebench 20 however)

however it could also be thermal related, i didnt have monitoring software open during the run
and one of my cores is a fat boi, gets hot and sweaty doing not much work


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

CallMeODZ said:


> using BCLK? when i use BCLK + adaptive vcore it drops my effective clock -2
> but BCLK + manual vcore no negative penalty (this was in cinebench 20 however)
> 
> however it could also be thermal related, i didnt have monitoring software open during the run
> and one of my cores is a fat boi, gets hot and sweaty doing not much work


I sync all core and use fix voltagr. R23 score seem alright. 31600 or so.


----------



## bscool

.


pitter said:


> was wondering if its normal that only 1core stays at 66c while the rest 7cores 75-77c while cinebench load? Idle are the same
> View attachment 2543281


Normal even guys I have seen direct die on 12th gen still have large variances.


----------



## mattxx88

i got a weird issue with my z690 strix i and 12900k

cannot push my cpu above 260w package power, i also borrowed my cpu to a friend with a gigabyte board and at the same freq my cpu performs better on his system:

My best CB23 - 5.2ghz - 29800 with 266w peak
His Best CB23 - 5.2ghz - 30200 with 330w peak
My best CB23 - 5.1ghz - 27800 with 218w peak
His Best CB23 - 5.1ghz - 28513 with 260w peak

other info:
i cannot try cb at 5.3, insta crash, any voltage (seems like theres a limiter somewhere)
custom loop cooling
my oc setting 55 55 54 54 53 53 53 52, completely stable everywhere

any idea?

i was ocking my ddr5 and noticed this thing in hwinfo:


may this be related to this issue?
i think i removed all limits inside bios, cpu side


----------



## sugi0lover

Nizzen said:


> Does memory matter in this test? I don't know. Never testet, never will
> Maybe you can show ut with the same settings as Thanh Nguyen ?


These factors can affect glops of Linx.
Memory OC >>> CPU Core OC >>>>>>> Cache OC.
Memory OC is the biggest factor of Gflops.
tFAW especially makes the big difference of Gflops.
If it's just xmp, tFAW must be really high, that leads to low Gflops.

WIth all tightened ram oc, it's very hard to run linx even at 5.3Ghz.
Even though residual is not right, this test by me was done at 12900k (P 53 / E 43 / Caceh 45) + ddr5 6400 CL30 1T.
I found that the reason of mismatch of residual is too high cache for my 12900K.


----------



## sugi0lover

sharing tFAW impact to Gflops test by me a long times ago with 9900K.
Everything is the same except tFAW and see how gflops differ.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> sharing tFAW impact to Gflops test by me a long times ago with 9900K.
> Everything is the same except tFAW and see how gflops differ.
> View attachment 2543368


On many kits you should be able to do tRRD_S @ 3 and tFAW @ 12 
Try it out!


----------



## cstkl1

Ichirou said:


> On many kits you should be able to do tRRD_S @ 3 and tFAW @ 12
> Try it out!


ddr5 can do trrd,trtp, tfaw 0,1 etc
so

what is there to try lol. 

lowest not always = performance.


----------



## bscool

cstkl1 said:


> ddr5 can do trrd,trtp, tfaw 0,1 etc
> so
> 
> what is there to try lol.
> 
> lowest not always = performance.


Dude ddr4 crowd misses you  or I do anyway


----------



## cstkl1

bscool said:


> Dude ddr4 crowd misses you  or I do anyway


bro 4dimm board cant fo much except cooling/better rams/cpu. 

wish they did a itx d4 or t-topo d4


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

So what I need to do? Its so weird sometimes when I run linx, ecore does not work. Sometimes the core downclock itself to 5.1. I set avx offset to auto or user specify at 0 and it does not work.


----------



## cstkl1

cstkl1 said:


> bro 4dimm board cant fo much except cooling/better rams/cpu.
> 
> wish they did a itx d4 or t-topo d4


btw sp32m wr is ddr5.


----------



## profundido

hey guys, considering upgrading to the 12900K. What are the best boards so far for a good stable daily max OC ? Are there any caveats or boards to absolutely avoid ?


----------



## Eitan

What temperatures should I be seeing on a 12900k at 5Ghz/4Ghz at 1.163v Vcore (~210w power draw) on an Arctic 360mm AIO? Ambient temperature is a consistent 22C. 

I grabbed an Arctic AIO as a last ditch attempt to avoid getting sucked back into the expensive world of custom water cooling, but I'm disappointed with the temperatures. My temps have dropped by only 3-4C compared to the NH-D15 that I was using prior to purchasing the AIO. Temperatures are in the mid 80s on the AIO, which seems really high considering my settings. I dismissed the high temperatures on the D15 as being a limitation of the cooler, but now I've still got high temperatures on a much better cooler. Could my CPU just have a bad solder between the die and IHS or something like that? I'm using the LGA1700 brackets for both coolers, so it shouldn't be a mounting pressure issue.


----------



## bscool

Eitan said:


> What temperatures should I be seeing on a 12900k at 5Ghz/4Ghz at 1.163v Vcore (~210w power draw) on an Arctic 360mm AIO? Ambient temperature is a consistent 22C.
> 
> I grabbed an Arctic AIO as a last ditch attempt to avoid getting sucked back into the expensive world of custom water cooling, but I'm disappointed with the temperatures. My temps have dropped by only 3-4C compared to the NH-D15 that I was using prior to purchasing the AIO. Temperatures are in the mid 80s on the AIO, which seems really high considering my settings. I dismissed the high temperatures on the D15 as being a limitation of the cooler, but now I've still got high temperatures on a much better cooler. Could my CPU just have a bad solder between the die and IHS or something like that? I'm using the LGA1700 brackets for both coolers, so it shouldn't be a mounting pressure issue.


What are you using to test? CB23, prime95 etc?

I have 12900kf with Arctic 420 and am in the 82c range in CB23(275w range) and 90c at 312w y cruncher. So your temps seeem a bit high. Link to my temps [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread

Could be the solder who knows. delid and find out 

Up until I saw this test I would have thoght the 360 would be within a few c of the 420 it looks like it is probably 10c+ on 12900k on 12700k it was 9c

So could also be part of 360 is just not that much better than NHd15. I think it should be better by 5-10c depending on how things are setup. And I use liquid metal instead of thermal paste and that helps a few c. Also tubes up increase my temps a 1-2c(maybe 3 c cant remember so much testing lately) as air circulated in AIO.


----------



## Nizzen

profundido said:


> hey guys, considering upgrading to the 12900K. What are the best boards so far for a good stable daily max OC ? Are there any caveats or boards to absolutely avoid ?


Everything else than Apex. Haven't seen any better average results on any other boards yet. Dimm.2 and SLI support (special bios) is nice to have too. Msi unify x in a good second place for me. Close, but no sigar 😅
Asus Apex bios support is outclassing every motherboards known to men and women 🤓🤠


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Its funny now. My cpu is sp92 but updated to 9901 and it is sp93 and today it turns to sp100.


----------



## fray_bentos

mattxx88 said:


> i got a weird issue with my z690 strix i and 12900k
> 
> cannot push my cpu above 260w package power, i also borrowed my cpu to a friend with a gigabyte board and at the same freq my cpu performs better on his system:
> 
> My best CB23 - 5.2ghz - 29800 with 266w peak
> His Best CB23 - 5.2ghz - 30200 with 330w peak
> My best CB23 - 5.1ghz - 27800 with 218w peak
> His Best CB23 - 5.1ghz - 28513 with 260w peak
> 
> other info:
> i cannot try cb at 5.3, insta crash, any voltage (seems like theres a limiter somewhere)
> custom loop cooling
> my oc setting 55 55 54 54 53 53 53 52, completely stable everywhere
> 
> any idea?
> 
> i was ocking my ddr5 and noticed this thing in hwinfo:
> 
> 
> may this be related to this issue?
> i think i removed all limits inside bios, cpu side


Could be this?









Intel completely disables AVX-512 on Alder Lake after all - Questionable interpretation of “efficiency” | News / Editorial | igor'sLAB


Intel is now set to disable "AVX-512" completely on all Alder Lake CPUs with an upcoming microcode update in new BIOS releases. Mainboard manufacturers were able to make the supposedly disabled…




www.igorslab.de





"Even if you set the CPU clock to static in the BIOS, remove all performance limits and ensure sufficient cooling, the CPU throttles itself down to 5.1 GHz when executing AVX2 instructions. It also doesn’t matter how warm the CPU runs, how much power it consumes, or what the application is called. In HWInfo the intervention of the clock limit is recognizable by “IA: Max Turbo Limit – Yes”.

Perhaps your friend's BIOS is not the latest revision and is without this 5.1 GHz AVX2 limit, and hence better performance in his board.

Hope?
"Fortunately, there are already workarounds for both of these AVX hurdles, the throttling of AVX2 and the removal of AVX-512. For example, Asus has implemented a patch in their BIOS versions for “Maximus” series motherboards that disables AVX2 throttling. The only important thing here is that the clock must already be set in the BIOS at boot time. A subsequent change via in-OS software will otherwise get caught in Intel’s catch net again. "


----------



## fray_bentos

Ichirou said:


> Is there any meaningful difference in practice? Does an improper bracket really make a big difference in stability?


There is no difference, and therefore no such thing as an "improper bracket". There are just different pins within the sockets themselves.


----------



## mattxx88

fray_bentos said:


> Could be this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel completely disables AVX-512 on Alder Lake after all - Questionable interpretation of “efficiency” | News / Editorial | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> Intel is now set to disable "AVX-512" completely on all Alder Lake CPUs with an upcoming microcode update in new BIOS releases. Mainboard manufacturers were able to make the supposedly disabled…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Even if you set the CPU clock to static in the BIOS, remove all performance limits and ensure sufficient cooling, the CPU throttles itself down to 5.1 GHz when executing AVX2 instructions. It also doesn’t matter how warm the CPU runs, how much power it consumes, or what the application is called. In HWInfo the intervention of the clock limit is recognizable by “IA: Max Turbo Limit – Yes”.
> 
> Perhaps your friend's BIOS is not the latest revision and is without this 5.1 GHz AVX2 limit, and hence better performance in his board.
> 
> Hope?
> "Fortunately, there are already workarounds for both of these AVX hurdles, the throttling of AVX2 and the removal of AVX-512. For example, Asus has implemented a patch in their BIOS versions for “Maximus” series motherboards that disables AVX2 throttling. The only important thing here is that the clock must already be set in the BIOS at boot time. A subsequent change via in-OS software will otherwise get caught in Intel’s catch net again. "


A very good tip, i'll dig deeper about this

At first glance, however, I have to make two considerations
1) mine cpu don't throttle at 51 but keeps 52
2) I believe that Asus bios 0811 is antecedent to those modifications to the AVX from part of Intel

edit: @matique Sorry to bother you buddy with tag, do you also get this problem with the z690 strix I?


----------



## opt33

profundido said:


> hey guys, considering upgrading to the 12900K. What are the best boards so far for a good stable daily max OC ? Are there any caveats or boards to absolutely avoid ?





Nizzen said:


> Everything else than Apex. Haven't seen any better average results on any other boards yet. Dimm.2 and SLI support (special bios) is nice to have too. Msi unify x in a good second place for me. Close, but no sigar 😅
> Asus Apex bios support is outclassing every motherboards known to men and women 🤓🤠


Just to add to Nizzens post, I have Unify-x, it is a great board, but bios is immature, caveats I ran into that may or may not bother you: 
1) Each time I update bios on unify-x it inactivates windows, MSI changing something that microsoft links license to so with each bios update becomes more difficult to reactivate windows 11.
2) Disabling e cores for gaming breaks sleep mode with only fix to reactivate ecores, I opted to just leave ecores enabled since I use sleep constantly.
3) There are some settings and voltages not accessible on MSI bios compared to ASUS, like pmic, vddq transmitter, not sure if helpful to change because I cant change them.
4) Others complained adaptive mode doesnt always work, I just use fixed for cpu ocing.

The first 2 issues bother me most, so posted on MSI support and sent ticket to MSI for future bios update request to fix first 2, but emailed I may hear something back in a month or 2....but probably those issues wont get fixed as more of a niche concern.


----------



## Ichirou

opt33 said:


> Just to add to Nizzens post, I have Unify-x, it is a great board, but bios is immature, caveats I ran into that may or may not bother you:
> 1) Each time I update bios on unify-x it inactivates windows, MSI changing something that microsoft links license to so with each bios update becomes more difficult to reactivate windows 11.
> 2) Disabling e cores for gaming breaks sleep mode with only fix to reactivate ecores, I opted to just leave ecores enabled since I use sleep constantly.
> 3) There are some settings and voltages not accessible on MSI bios compared to ASUS, like pmic, vddq transmitter, not sure if helpful to change because I cant change them.
> 4) Others complained adaptive mode doesnt always work, I just use fixed for cpu ocing.
> 
> The first 2 issues bother me most, so posted on MSI support and sent ticket to MSI for future bios update request to fix first 2, but emailed I may hear something back in a month or 2....but probably those issues wont get fixed as more of a niche concern.


Unironically, I might be one of the few unlucky ones to end up having to swap from ASUS to MSI because it seems like my Strix board was poorly binned with its memory traces/slots... Keeps throwing errors even with extremely loose timings, and no slots except B2 can boot at 4,200+ MHz... Prebinned 98 (now 101) P-core 12900k already pretested at 4,300 MHz CL14 1T in Gear 1...

There are quality control issues with ASUS's products this time around...


----------



## RobertoSampaio

A stranger thing is happening to my windows....
I believe it was after a Windows update...
My full load frequency is P51/E40...
When windows resumes from sleep, my full load frequencies return to stock.
Could you test it in your system?

EDITED:
it's not the last windows update... I restored a backup from December and the problem was there...
Could be the Intel ME Version 16.0.15.1620 ?


----------



## opt33

RobertoSampaio said:


> A stranger thing is happening to my windows....
> I believe it was after a Windows update...
> My full load frequency is P51/E40...
> When windows resumes from sleep, my full load frequencies return to stock.
> Could you test it in your system?


which mobo are seeing that with?

on my unify x I had seen that couple times didnt link it to sleep mode til your post. But yeah, it is sleep mode on my unify-x that when comes out of sleep one pcore is set to 51, rest 39, same as ecores, like when wakes system cant tell difference between ecores and pcores, pic left is before sleep, pic right is after waking from sleep, have windows set to high performance so cpus at max, loaded doesnt change. and cinebench scores like 400+ lower so is not hwinfo bug.

great...one more thing to track down. wish I could test sleep with ecores off.

On asus motherboards like apex does sleep mode work (ie computer and monitor awakens) with ecores disabled, ie is that bios issue or windows issue.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

opt33 said:


> which mobo are seeing that with?
> 
> on my unify x I had seen that couple times didnt link it to sleep mode til your post. But yeah, it is sleep mode on my unify-x that when comes out of sleep one pcore is set to 51, rest 39, same as ecores, like when wakes system cant tell difference between ecores and pcores, pic left is before sleep, pic right is after waking from sleep, have windows set to high performance so cpus at max, loaded doesnt change. and cinebench scores like 400+ lower so is not hwinfo bug.
> 
> great...one more thing to track down. wish I could test sleep with ecores off.
> 
> On asus motherboards like apex does sleep mode work (ie computer and monitor awakens) with ecores disabled, ie is that bios issue or windows issue.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2543498


I have A Maximus Z690 Extreme.

I'm trying to figure out if it's a Windows issue or an Intel issue since we have different MBs.
In my case the CPU is still running light loads of ST at high frequencies. The problem is only at full load.

This is my settings:









Full load @ P51/E40/R36

When windows come back from sleep, the full load is stock


----------



## Dinnzy

Has anyone gotten a 5.5 all core 5.0 ring stable e cores off game stable ;p? I’m having trouble getting 5.4, 4.8 on both adaptive and Manuel. Everything below that works like a charm though. SP 89 🙃


----------



## Ichirou

Dinnzy said:


> Has anyone gotten a 5.5 all core 5.0 ring stable e cores off game stable ;p? I’m having trouble getting 5.4, 4.8 on both adaptive and Manuel. Everything below that works like a charm though. SP 89 🙃


I think some people earlier in the thread have, but very few. High SP or high voltage and insane cooling required.
With ring lower or on auto, much more common.


----------



## Lord Alzov

Dinnzy said:


> Has anyone gotten a 5.5 all core 5.0 ring stable e cores off game stable ;p? I’m having trouble getting 5.4, 4.8 on both adaptive and Manuel. Everything below that works like a charm though. SP 89 🙃


All core have more FPS on many games.


----------



## opt33

RobertoSampaio said:


> I have A Maximus Z690 Extreme.
> 
> I'm trying to figure out if it's a Windows issue or an Intel issue since we have different MBs.
> In my case the CPU is still running light loads of ST at high frequencies. The problem is only at full load.
> 
> This is my settings:
> View attachment 2543503
> 
> 
> Full load @ P51/E40/R36
> 
> When windows come back from sleep, the full load is stock


yeah, looks like intel and/or microsoft need more time to fix bugs of using intels pcore/ecore cpu with windows. I am on win11.

I am using fixed vcore, fixed 51 multi. After sleep, all my pcores except first one downclock to same mhz as ecore. Doesnt matter light load, full load, same. tried balance power so would downclock, and still pcore max after sleep = ecores.

I set cpu to 50/ecores to 37, and resume from sleep one pcore 50, rest same as ecores 37. Im going to try stock and see if bug persists then.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

opt33 said:


> yeah, looks like intel and/or microsoft need more time to fix bugs of using intels pcore/ecore cpu with windows. I am on win11.
> 
> I am using fixed vcore, fixed 51 multi. After sleep, all my pcores except first one downclock to same mhz as ecore. Doesnt matter light load, full load, same. tried balance power so would downclock, and still pcore max after sleep = ecores.
> 
> I set cpu to 50/ecores to 37, and resume from sleep one pcore 50, rest same as ecores 37. Im going to try stock and see if bug persists then.
> View attachment 2543515


I'm trying to identify why it happens. I had 3 resume from sleep with no issue.

All others, my full load goes to P48/E38.

This is full load after resume from sleep...


----------



## opt33

2130.16.0.2387


RobertoSampaio said:


> I'm trying to identify why it happens. I had 3 resume from sleep with no issue.
> 
> All others, my full load goes to P48/E38.
> 
> This is full load after resume from sleep...


same here, this is going to annoy me til I figure out a workaround....trying different bios settings/power settings in windows. stock sleep mode works, but soon as I hit set all cores 51 my bug appears where pcores downclocked to same as ecores after waking from sleep. Your bug slightly different since using adaptive and yours returns to stock, but likely same origin, so if you figure out a fix post it, ill do same. 

as for intel me, my driver version is 2131.1.4.0 dated 7/27/21 under device manger>>intel management engine interface>>driver. msi download names it: intel me version 2130.16.0.2387

wonder if also occurs on win 10.


----------



## Bocraft

STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4 
55/43/45 1.28V R20


----------



## LegendaryAura

RobertoSampaio said:


> I'm trying to identify why it happens. I had 3 resume from sleep with no issue.
> 
> All others, my full load goes to P48/E38.
> 
> This is full load after resume from sleep...
> 
> View attachment 2543520








MSI Global English Forum


...




forum-en.msi.com





Same thing happens to me every time on the z690 edge. But its been happening since I got the board 2 months ago.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

opt33 said:


> which mobo are seeing that with?
> 
> on my unify x I had seen that couple times didnt link it to sleep mode til your post. But yeah, it is sleep mode on my unify-x that when comes out of sleep one pcore is set to 51, rest 39, same as ecores, like when wakes system cant tell difference between ecores and pcores, pic left is before sleep, pic right is after waking from sleep, have windows set to high performance so cpus at max, loaded doesnt change. and cinebench scores like 400+ lower so is not hwinfo bug.
> 
> great...one more thing to track down. wish I could test sleep with ecores off.
> 
> On asus motherboards like apex does sleep mode work (ie computer and monitor awakens) with ecores disabled, ie is that bios issue or windows issue.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2543498



Try not selecting Sleep... (select: Sleep: Never)

Select hibernate. (select the time you are used to setting)

Tell me if works.


----------



## opt33

RobertoSampaio said:


> Try not selecting Sleep... (select: Sleep: Never)
> 
> Select hibernate. (select the time you are used to setting)
> 
> Tell me if works.


I updated to latest beta bios for unify x A21 then bug was gone, I could set all cores or per core at 51 and no issue coming out of sleep. I flashed back to A10 just to make sure and bug happens every time I sleep, so just flashed back again to A21 and again no bug with sleep. Now have to reactivate windows as every time flash on this MSI board, windows thinks I changed hardware. 

I think I deleted hibernate via cmd line back when trying to get sleep mode to work with ecores disabled, i thought about that before flashing to another bios but hibernate was not visible in any power settings. However on this beta bios sleep mode still doesnt work with ecores disabled, but atleast downclocking after sleep is gone. Unfortunately MSI doesnt list any changes on beta bios, no idea what they changed.


----------



## sugi0lover

Bocraft said:


> View attachment 2543530
> 
> STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4
> 55/43/45 1.28V R20


Good job. I tested 55/43/45 before and your score is a bit low. The score should be over 12K.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> Good job. I tested 55/43/45 before and your score is a bit low. The score should be over 12K.
> View attachment 2543551


Can you provide me with ASUS TurboV Core? Thanks


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Can you provide me with ASUS TurboV Core? Thanks


Here it is~





TurboV_Core_1.10.19.zip







drive.google.com


----------



## rkneeshaw

Discovered a major performance issue using Adaptive Voltage Offsets vs fixed override vcore.

My benchmarks are warzone, and cpu-z.

Using a fixed vcore of 1.3v and a fixed x51 all core overclock, I get 200-300fps in warzone, and a score of 830+ single thread in CPU-z
Using adaptive voltage with one offset (vf point 7 = -0.060) and a fixed x53 all core overclock, I get 150-190fps in warzone, and a score of 770 single thread in CPU-z

Both overclocks pass all OCCT CPU tests with flying colors with extended runs. Zero errors.

I can't figure out why there's such a performance difference. The x53 adaptive voltage OC should beat the x51 OC all day.

MSI Z690-A Pro beta bios 1.24u2
12900k
DDR4 @ 1433c16 1.47v
Windows 10 21H1

Could this be a WIndows 10 thing? Or maybe a BIOS bug? Nobody else have this performance drop between fixed and adaptive vcore overclocks?


----------



## Ichirou

rkneeshaw said:


> Discovered a major performance issue using Adaptive Voltage Offsets vs fixed override vcore.
> 
> My benchmarks are warzone, and cpu-z.
> 
> Using a fixed vcore of 1.3v and a fixed x51 all core overclock, I get 200-300fps in warzone, and a score of 830+ single thread in CPU-z
> Using adaptive voltage with one offset (vf point 7 = -0.060) and a fixed x53 all core overclock, I get 150-190fps in warzone, and a score of 770 single thread in CPU-z
> 
> Both overclocks pass all OCCT CPU tests with flying colors with extended runs. Zero errors.
> 
> I can't figure out why there's such a performance difference. The x53 adaptive voltage OC should beat the x51 OC all day.
> 
> MSI Z690-A Pro beta bios 1.24u2
> 12900k
> DDR4 @ 1433c16 1.47v
> Windows 10 21H1
> 
> Could this be a WIndows 10 thing? Or maybe a BIOS bug? Nobody else have this performance drop between fixed and adaptive vcore overclocks?


Monitor HWInfo on another monitor and see how often it ramps up and down.
Chances are, the CPU isn't ever ramping up to the full 53x.

There's a reason why fixed clock, fixed Vcore reigns king


----------



## Bocraft

sugi0lover said:


> Good job. I tested 55/43/45 before and your score is a bit low. The score should be over 12K.
> View attachment 2543551


There are many system backgrounds, and they have not been optimized.


----------



## digitalfrost

rkneeshaw said:


> Discovered a major performance issue using Adaptive Voltage Offsets vs fixed override vcore.


Which power plan is active? Can you try if Balanced vs High Performance makes a difference?

e: Have you disabled CEP? MSI enables it by default.


----------



## rkneeshaw

Ichirou said:


> Monitor HWInfo on another monitor and see how often it ramps up and down.
> Chances are, the CPU isn't ever ramping up to the full 53x.
> 
> There's a reason why fixed clock, fixed Vcore reigns king


It’s a fixed x53 ratio. Stays at 5300 in HWinfo and never changes. 
I even went to a x51 fixed ratio with adaptive voltage, same performance issue.
Change to a fixed vcore, and boom, 100 more fps and higher cpuz scores 

this can’t be normal or else surely people would be reporting it everywhere. Must be bios bug/issue.


----------



## rkneeshaw

digitalfrost said:


> e: Have you disabled CEP? MSI enables it by default.


Holy balls I could kiss you, that was it. Back to slaying at 200-300+ fps!
CPU-z single thread benchmark is up to 860

Thanks!!


----------



## Falkentyne

rkneeshaw said:


> Discovered a major performance issue using Adaptive Voltage Offsets vs fixed override vcore.
> 
> My benchmarks are warzone, and cpu-z.
> 
> Using a fixed vcore of 1.3v and a fixed x51 all core overclock, I get 200-300fps in warzone, and a score of 830+ single thread in CPU-z
> Using adaptive voltage with one offset (vf point 7 = -0.060) and a fixed x53 all core overclock, I get 150-190fps in warzone, and a score of 770 single thread in CPU-z
> 
> Both overclocks pass all OCCT CPU tests with flying colors with extended runs. Zero errors.
> 
> I can't figure out why there's such a performance difference. The x53 adaptive voltage OC should beat the x51 OC all day.
> 
> MSI Z690-A Pro beta bios 1.24u2
> 12900k
> DDR4 @ 1433c16 1.47v
> Windows 10 21H1
> 
> Could this be a WIndows 10 thing? Or maybe a BIOS bug? Nobody else have this performance drop between fixed and adaptive vcore overclocks?


Monitoring tools won't show this, because the clock ratio itself isn't decreasing.

CEP is throttling you. This has been discussed several times by people, that MSI Bios has no option to disable CEP.
Asus disables this by default (and it can be enabled of desired).
To remove this phantom throttling, you need to either increase the AC Loadline value or increase the loadline calibration.
CEP "appears" to function based on the LOAD voltage matching the V/F point voltage, where if it drops lower, it causes phantom throttling. This only applies to adaptive or auto or offset voltage modes.
CEP seems to be bypassed when using fixed vcore.

_edit_ never mind seems someone else was first.


----------



## Alberto_It

sugi0lover said:


> Good job. I tested 55/43/45 before and your score is a bit low. The score should be over 12K.
> View attachment 2543551


Can you please explain me how have you set E-Cores up to 4.3Ghz? Fixed? By Core Usage?

Thank you! @sugi0lover


----------



## sugi0lover

Alberto_It said:


> Can you please explain me how have you set E-Cores up to 4.3Ghz? Fixed? By Core Usage?
> 
> Thank you! @sugi0lover


It's fixed, you can see how cores behave from Hwinfo during Cinebench.


----------



## Hfhjfg

sugi0lover said:


> It's fixed, you can see how cores behave from Hwinfo during Cinebench.


I am also interested in this question. Did you rise e-cores adaptive voltage/offset? L2 voltage / CPU input 1.8 / or maybe some other voltage to make them stable?

Are they Prime stable btw? or you tuned them to be stable in your daily workload only?


----------



## sugi0lover

Hfhjfg said:


> I am also interested in this question. Did you rise e-cores adaptive voltage/offset? L2 voltage / CPU input 1.8 / or maybe some other voltage to make them stable?
> 
> Are they Prime stable btw? or you tuned them to be stable in your daily workload only?


No adaptive voltages/offset. L2 voltage = auto, CPU Input 1.8 = auto.
I haven't run prime, but I guess it needs higher core voltage for Prime. But I think it's possible since I have a lot room for voltage.
That Cine test required only 1.31v(llc7). 
Atm, that SP103 CPU is not in my hands since my friends will have it for a while for his own fun oc time.


----------



## Eitan

bscool said:


> What are you using to test? CB23, prime95 etc?
> 
> I have 12900kf with Arctic 420 and am in the 82c range in CB23(275w range) and 90c at 312w y cruncher. So your temps seeem a bit high. Link to my temps [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread
> 
> Could be the solder who knows. delid and find out
> 
> Up until I saw this test I would have thoght the 360 would be within a few c of the 420 it looks like it is probably 10c+ on 12900k on 12700k it was 9c
> 
> So could also be part of 360 is just not that much better than NHd15. I think it should be better by 5-10c depending on how things are setup. And I use liquid metal instead of thermal paste and that helps a few c. Also tubes up increase my temps a 1-2c(maybe 3 c cant remember so much testing lately) as air circulated in AIO.


I'm using R23. The temperatures are after a 10 minute loop. 

Today I put the Arctic AIO and NH-D15 into my 5900X system, cranked up the voltage to increase its power draw, and compared the temperatures. The AIO ran it around 6-9C lower than the NH-D15, so it definitely can perform better. On the 12900k the temperatures are actually identical after a full 10 minute run. For the first couple of runs the AIO is cooler, but after 10 minutes they both reach identical temperatures on both the hottest P core and the package temperature. All of the E cores also hit 72c on both coolers.

What I did notice when removing the AIO from the 12900k system to put it into the 5900X system is the mounting pressure is not great even with the LGA1700 bracket. I use the same thermal compound on everything (NH2), and it was much more thinly and evenly spread on the NH-D15's coldplate than on the AIO's coldplate. The AIO's coldplate had quite a thick smearing of compound directly above where the die is located. I'll try Igor's washers under the retention mechanism method this weekend to see if that improves the situation.

I'm not at all keen to delid a soldered CPU, particularly not after seeing der8auer kill his 12900k trying to delid it.


----------



## bscool

Eitan said:


> I'm using R23. The temperatures are after a 10 minute loop.
> 
> Today I put the Arctic AIO and NH-D15 into my 5900X system, cranked up the voltage to increase its power draw, and compared the temperatures. The AIO ran it around 6-9C lower than the NH-D15, so it definitely can perform better. On the 12900k the temperatures are actually identical after a full 10 minute run. For the first couple of runs the AIO is cooler, but after 10 minutes they both reach identical temperatures on both the hottest P core and the package temperature. All of the E cores also hit 72c on both coolers.
> 
> What I did notice when removing the AIO from the 12900k system to put it into the 5900X system is the mounting pressure is not great even with the LGA1700 bracket. I use the same thermal compound on everything (NH2), and it was much more thinly and evenly spread on the NH-D15's coldplate than on the AIO's coldplate. The AIO's coldplate had quite a thick smearing of compound directly above where the die is located. I'll try Igor's washers under the retention mechanism method this weekend to see if that improves the situation.
> 
> I'm not at all keen to delid a soldered CPU, particularly not after seeing der8auer kill his 12900k trying to delid it.


I noticed the IHS on the Arctic is flat when I checked mine. the Noctua is most likely convex so it mates better with your CPU which most 12th gen are concave from ILM pressure. Its sounds like for you the washers might help. When i tried it I saw no difference but I really didnt expect to as my temps are already very good.

I think the people who will see changes/benefits from the washer mod are those seeing higher than normal temps if compared to another system/cooling setup.

Post back with your results it is always interesting to hear.


----------



## digitalfrost

I have an issue where it will not boost anymore once windows is booted. I start HWiNFO at boot so it's logging early and here we can see the CPU is boosting to 54.









However. Once everything is started if I reset the counters, 54 is never happening again. Here I completed CPU-Z and Geekbench 5 and as you can see not once during this did the CPU go over 51. Consequently my single-thread score in CPU-Z sucks (don't worry about multi that is due to the 150W TDP limit).



  





Taskmanger shows my idle CPU utilization to be hovering around 2% so it's not like there's some background task that's taking up a lot of resources.


----------



## Spock-_-

bscool said:


> What are you using to test? CB23, prime95 etc?
> 
> I have 12900kf with Arctic 420 and am in the 82c range in CB23(275w range) and 90c at 312w y cruncher. So your temps seeem a bit high. Link to my temps [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread
> 
> Could be the solder who knows. delid and find out
> 
> Up until I saw this test I would have thoght the 360 would be within a few c of the 420 it looks like it is probably 10c+ on 12900k on 12700k it was 9c
> 
> So could also be part of 360 is just not that much better than NHd15. I think it should be better by 5-10c depending on how things are setup. And I use liquid metal instead of thermal paste and that helps a few c. Also tubes up increase my temps a 1-2c(maybe 3 c cant remember so much testing lately) as air circulated in AIO.



What kind of temps do you get in a gaming scenario? I also have a Arctic 420 and am just trying to compare.

Thanks!


----------



## bscool

Spock-_- said:


> What kind of temps do you get in a gaming scenario? I also have a Arctic 420 and am just trying to compare.
> 
> Thanks!


I dont know, I have never checked.

I would guess in the 60s at times. going by what i know. depending on the game.

Edit just checked csgo since that is what I mainly play and into the 70s. I didnt think it would be that high.


----------



## opt33

digitalfrost said:


> I have an issue where it will not boost anymore once windows is booted. I start HWiNFO at boot so it's logging early and here we can see the CPU is boosting to 54.
> 
> However. Once everything is started if I reset the counters, 54 is never happening again. Here I completed CPU-Z and Geekbench 5 and as you can see not once during this did the CPU go over 51. Consequently my single-thread score in CPU-Z sucks (don't worry about multi that is due to the 150W TDP limit).
> 
> Taskmanger shows my idle CPU utilization to be hovering around 2% so it's not like there's some background task that's taking up a lot of resources.


I have msi unify x, the bios on main site is bugged in similar way for my mobo, the beta bios in msi forum fixes the issue. Mostly mine was downclocking 100% time after sleep, but did watch it downclock on its own once while running tests without prior sleep. My bug was triggered by manually typing in Pcore multi value. You can try hitting per core, not type anything mine was 52 and 51 (some msi overlock?), if that solves the issue ie dont downclock, and bug returns when manually type in value, then probably need bios fix like mine unless can work around some other way.

With beta bios, no more issues with downclocking.





MSI Global English Forum


...




forum-en.msi.com


----------



## Alberto_It

Ichirou said:


> Monitor HWInfo on another monitor and see how often it ramps up and down.
> Chances are, the CPU isn't ever ramping up to the full 53x.
> 
> There's a reason why fixed clock, fixed Vcore reigns king


Show us your Cpu Z and Cinebench R23 results


----------



## digitalfrost

opt33 said:


> With beta bios, no more issues with downclocking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MSI Global English Forum
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forum-en.msi.com


I flashed 1.24 but unforunately it still doesn't solve the problem. I also tried to use Turbo Offset mode but it doesn't help. However I found a workaround: Just install Intel XTU and set the multipliers with that, then the CPU is boosting.


----------



## Alberto_It

RobertoSampaio said:


> I have A Maximus Z690 Extreme.
> 
> I'm trying to figure out if it's a Windows issue or an Intel issue since we have different MBs.
> In my case the CPU is still running light loads of ST at high frequencies. The problem is only at full load.
> 
> This is my settings:
> View attachment 2543503
> 
> 
> Full load @ P51/E40/R36
> 
> When windows come back from sleep, the full load is stock


Very strange @RobertoSampaio, honestly I haven't checked it. I don't think that it is related to ME security patch. Could be a bios Cpu microcode issue. You know who to ask what it may depend on! I can't tag😬


----------



## opt33

digitalfrost said:


> I flashed 1.24 but unforunately it still doesn't solve the problem. I also tried to use Turbo Offset mode but it doesn't help. However I found a workaround: Just install Intel XTU and set the multipliers with that, then the CPU is boosting.


probably get fixed at some point with bios update, my beta bios with fix was just from few weeks ago.


----------



## Ichirou

@sugi0lover 
This 12900k I have went from P-core SP 98 to 101 after updating BIOS to 0812; is that normal?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> @sugi0lover
> This 12900k I have went from P-core SP 98 to 101 after updating BIOS to 0812; is that normal?


It happens but it becomes the original when I flash again.


----------



## Electrosoft

Ichirou said:


> @sugi0lover
> This 12900k I have went from P-core SP 98 to 101 after updating BIOS to 0812; is that normal?


Did your overall SP score and V/F curve change or was it just the P-Core score?


----------



## Spock-_-

bscool said:


> I dont know, I have never checked.
> 
> I would guess in the 60s at times. going by what i know. depending on the game.
> 
> Edit just checked csgo since that is what I mainly play and into the 70s. I didnt think it would be that high.


I bit the bullet and took on the danger (for the first time ever) of doing liquid metal. I was able to drop a few C off total package temp and my one hot P core seems to have been reigned in a bit. I also payed closer attention to mounting pressure this time around and I think that also helped with the more consistent temps across all the cores. Gained a couple percent in all benchmarks I’ve run so far.


----------



## sugi0lover

Electrosoft said:


> Did your overall SP score and V/F curve change or was it just the P-Core score?


All changed, overall SP, P SP, E SP, VF curve~


----------



## Ichirou

Electrosoft said:


> Did your overall SP score and V/F curve change or was it just the P-Core score?


I actually didn't really pay attention to the finer details; I was only concerned about the P-core SP score


----------



## bscool

Electrosoft said:


> Did your overall SP score and V/F curve change or was it just the P-Core score?


For me on 1001 just e core changed

901 P104 E77 total SP95
1001 P104 E70 total SP94


----------



## HellionGR

12900kf
53x all core P core
40x E cores
SP 88 / P Cores 98
V144I904

Cooling 280x AIO ARCTIC LGA 1700socket with Kryonaut max temp 100oc usually cruching high 90s in CB23.
30 minutes work on the APEX
Just set default , C32 Gskill profile 6000 VDDQ 1.435 Vmem controller 1.25
LLC 7 1.35Vcore
Remove limits and advance Plimits

Windows installation is raw only set high performance mode not done any modification to lighten services etc
also getting 100k 95.5k 94.9 54ns latency on aida64 extreme
No cache oc yet

I think ill try adaptive tvb per core after that
Mind you i dont have 5.3g Curve in bios page


----------



## rkneeshaw

HellionGR said:


> 12900kf
> 53x all core P core
> 40x E cores
> SP 88 / P Cores 98
> V144I904
> 
> Cooling 280x AIO ARCTIC LGA 1700socket with Kryonaut max temp 100oc usually cruching high 90s in CB23.
> 30 minutes work on the APEX
> Just set default , C32 Gskill profile 6000 VDDQ 1.435 Vmem controller 1.25
> LLC 7 1.35Vcore
> Remove limits and advance Plimits
> 
> Windows installation is raw only set high performance mode not done any modification to lighten services etc
> also getting 100k 95.5k 94.9 54ns latency on aida64 extreme
> No cache oc yet
> 
> I think ill try adaptive tvb per core after that
> Mind you i dont have 5.3g Curve in bios page


Nice! Any residual stability issues at all? I've got a x53 all core going and it passes my stress tests but during daily use my USB system wants to restart itself every 30-60 minutes or so.


----------



## cptclutch

Any reason CPUZ single core refuses to boost past 5.1ghz for me? Been trying everything to get my scores past 830 but it just won't do it.

Edit: Just tested cinebench and its doing the same thing running single core. Doesn't boost past 5.1 enough though I'm running 54x2 53x4 52x6 51x8.


----------



## HellionGR

rkneeshaw said:


> Nice! Any residual stability issues at all? I've got a x53 all core going and it passes my stress tests but during daily use my USB system wants to restart itself every 30-60 minutes or so.


Havent tested long term stability yet but i dont think there is a point until i complete my custom loop.Staying in everyday pc here in summer with 330W and just a custom AIO youll find yourself pretty easy bluescreened.Room temperatures rise here in July-August easy at top 20s C without AC unit.

Here is another take with slightly overclocked cache too at 4500.


----------



## digitalfrost

rkneeshaw said:


> Nice! Any residual stability issues at all? I've got a x53 all core going and it passes my stress tests but during daily use my USB system wants to restart itself every 30-60 minutes or so.


What is your gaming vcore? I run 1.475v adaptive with TVB optimizations, but now that my CPU is at 5.2ghz I average like 1.4v vcore during gaming

e: Nevermind. LLC was on auto.


----------



## HiLuckyB

So with my p-core 99 e-core 77 12900K delid, I was having problems getting a good mount and I was kind of stuck at 5.3 all core with 1 core at 5.4, With e-cores at 4.2 with around 1.3v. 

I got the supercool computer direct die waterblock and now I'm running 5.4 all core with 1 core at 5.5, With e-cores at 4.3 with around 1.35v.

Unfortunately it takes like 1.45v to do 5.5GHz all core to not crash trying to run R15, And at that point I'm pushing over 380 watts for the CPU, So it's very hard to cool without chilled water.


----------



## bscool

HiLuckyB said:


> So with my p-core 99 e-core 77 12900K delid, I was having problems getting a good mount and I was kind of stuck at 5.3 all core with 1 core at 5.4, With e-cores at 4.2 with around 1.3v.
> 
> I got the supercool computer direct die waterblock and now I'm running 5.4 all core with 1 core at 5.5, With e-cores at 4.3 with around 1.35v.
> 
> Unfortunately it takes like 1.45v to do 5.5GHz all core to not crash trying to run R15, And at that point I'm pushing over 380 watts for the CPU, So it's very hard to cool without chilled water.


Post some benches and temps


----------



## Hfhjfg

HiLuckyB said:


> So with my p-core 99 e-core 77 12900K delid, I was having problems getting a good mount and I was kind of stuck at 5.3 all core with 1 core at 5.4, With e-cores at 4.2 with around 1.3v.
> 
> I got the supercool computer direct die waterblock and now I'm running 5.4 all core with 1 core at 5.5, With e-cores at 4.3 with around 1.35v.
> 
> Unfortunately it takes like 1.45v to do 5.5GHz all core to not crash trying to run R15, And at that point I'm pushing over 380 watts for the CPU, So it's very hard to cool without chilled water.


I also was trying to run 5.5Ghz all cores just for fun. 

Try to set ring to 8x and memory to stock 2133Mhz + SA and mem voltages to defaults. So you will require much less voltage on CPU.
Then try raising ring ratio until you find the limit of your cooling solution.

P.s. in my case 8x ring + stock memory made my CPU able to run 5.5 at about 1.39 when running CB23. But for my EK waterblock even this was too much. So frequencies jumped 5.4-5.5 all the time. Water temp was about 16 oC


----------



## rkneeshaw

digitalfrost said:


> What is your gaming vcore? I run 1.475v adaptive with TVB optimizations, but now that my CPU is at 5.2ghz I average like 1.4v vcore during gaming
> 
> e: Nevermind. LLC was on auto.


Fixed it, had to add another 10mv to the vcore and 53 is stable in warzone again with no USB reconnects


----------



## HiLuckyB

bscool said:


> Post some benches and temps


Over 5 mins of R23, With 20-21c water temp. Just after I took the screen shot hottest core touched 75c.


----------



## Hfhjfg

HiLuckyB said:


> Over 5 mins of R23, With 20-21c water temp. Just after I took the screen shot hottest core touched 75c.


300watts at 70 degree Celsius? 😳
What is your cooling? Direct Die?


----------



## bscool

HiLuckyB said:


> Over 5 mins of R23, With 20-21c water temp. Just after I took the screen shot hottest core touched 75c.


Wow! Thank you


----------



## HiLuckyB

Hfhjfg said:


> 300watts at 70 degree Celsius? 😳
> What is your cooling? Direct Die?


Delid with the supercool computer direct die waterblock. You replace the IHS with the cold plate of the direct die waterblock. It's the best way to cool these CPU's.


----------



## Hfhjfg

HiLuckyB said:


> Delid with the supercool computer direct die waterblock. You replace the IHS with the cold plate of the direct die waterblock. It's the best way to cool these CPU's.


Could you drop a direct link to where you bought it?


----------



## HiLuckyB

Hfhjfg said:


> Could you drop a direct link to where you bought it?


Right now the only way to order it is to message them on there Facebook. They can sell you a delid tool, And the waterblock if you need both.
My 12900k was already delid so I didn't get there tool. They are in Thailand, But I believe they will ship to almost anywhere. I'm in the US.








Supercool computer


Supercool computer. 7,532 likes · 2 talking about this. จำหน่ายอุปกรณ์ระบายความร้อนคอมพิวเตอร์




www.facebook.com


----------



## geriatricpollywog




----------



## dragn09

5.5 allcore without hyperthreading and e-cores. i guess this game really runs better with low latency ram, my ddr5 only has 6200cl40 profile because the gigabyte master doesnt post when changing ram voltages lol


----------



## dragn09

Lord Alzov said:


> Now look at me. My Russian SU35 "NAGIBATOR 777" vs your old F16 ''FAKER"
> My 5500 7000cl30 on watercool on my room. No MO-ra OUTSIDE on WINTER LOL.
> My 5500 beats your 5700 in games.


how much power usage does your 3080ti have? your gpu stats are way higher. mine max at 400w


----------



## Lord Alzov

dragn09 said:


> how much power usage does your 3080ti have? your gpu stats are way higher. mine max at 400w


My 3080ti GALAX HOF. I use unlock bios. On game its like 450-500+.


----------



## Spock-_-

dragn09 said:


> 5.5 allcore without hyperthreading and e-cores. i guess this game really runs better with low latency ram, my ddr5 only has 6200cl40 profile because the gigabyte master doesnt post when changing ram voltages lol
> 
> View attachment 2544034



The main voltage controls are definitely broke on the Aoruss Master for DRAM. However, if you use the SPD tool and set the values in there it works fine.

Currently stable myself at 6200mhz CL30 @ 1.5v (~50c max temps) on my Samsung set with my Aorus Master


----------



## ViTosS

Can you guys run Horizon Zero Dawn benchmark too?


----------



## xarot

Any news on the 12900KS? Sold my 12900K, Z690 Hero and RAM. It was a thermal disaster even on water for me.  wondering if the KSs could run at lower voltage and wattage.


----------



## dragn09

Spock-_- said:


> The main voltage controls are definitely broke on the Aoruss Master for DRAM. However, if you use the SPD tool and set the values in there it works fine.
> 
> Currently stable myself at 6200mhz CL30 @ 1.5v (~50c max temps) on my Samsung set with my Aorus Master


doesnt work with my hynix 2x16gb, nothing posts not even 5200cl36 when i do the spd stuff


----------



## cptclutch

Any ideas on why I’m throttling in GPUZ single core? I‘ve been trying to solve this for awhile and even with an all core 5.2ghz the test starts at 850ish and drops down to 830 where it finishes. Tried every setting in the bios and windows power settings. 12700k and MSI Pro-A D4.


----------



## bscool

cptclutch said:


> Any ideas on why I’m throttling in GPUZ single core? I‘ve been trying to solve this for awhile and even with an all core 5.2ghz the test starts at 850ish and drops down to 830 where it finishes. Tried every setting in the bios and windows power settings. 12700k and MSI Pro-A D4.


What are your temps under load?


----------



## Nizzen

xarot said:


> Any news on the 12900KS? Sold my 12900K, Z690 Hero and RAM. It was a thermal disaster even on water for me.  wondering if the KSs could run at lower voltage and wattage.


Are you playing Cinebench 24/7?
Stick with your 7980xe


----------



## xarot

Nizzen said:


> Are you playing Cinebench 24/7?
> Stick with your 7980xe


Hehe actually I will keep 7980XE in main rig. 12900K thermals might be ok in games now but CB, etc allcore software usage brings very high temps. Later when games will start utilizing more cores, or even all cores at some point (not sure if they could later use both P+E or just P) the temps will start to creep up. The die is too small and they clocked the 12900K too high?


----------



## DSHG87

Hey!

Is 1.47V Vcore for two/single-threaded workload and load change to IDLE (5.5Ghz) "dangerous" or safe for 12900K? (All-Core and full load 1.22V). Afraid of degradation.


----------



## LionAlonso

DSHG87 said:


> Hey!
> 
> Is 1.47V Vcore for two/single-threaded workload and load change to IDLE (5.5Ghz) "dangerous" or safe for 12900K? (All-Core and full load 1.22V). Afraid of degradation.


Safe.


----------



## matique

mattxx88 said:


> A very good tip, i'll dig deeper about this
> 
> At first glance, however, I have to make two considerations
> 1) mine cpu don't throttle at 51 but keeps 52
> 2) I believe that Asus bios 0811 is antecedent to those modifications to the AVX from part of Intel
> 
> edit: @matique Sorry to bother you buddy with tag, do you also get this problem with the z690 strix I?


Hello. Apologies for late reply, didn't see this. On my strix, with per core oc w/ tvb, it'll always downclock to 5.1 in R23. Only when I set a static oc at 5.2, it'll then pull around 320w and maintain 5.2, with around 29.9k MT score.


----------



## Bocraft




----------



## Bocraft




----------



## Falkentyne

Old but still true.









Intel IHS CPU Heatspreader Ebenheit Intel CPU Sockel Problem







www.ocinside.de


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Bocraft said:


> View attachment 2544317


Look like a KS.... Lol...
And if you will not use the new advanced octvb feature... It's a KS... Lolol


----------



## geriatricpollywog

RobertoSampaio said:


> Look like a KS.... Lol...
> And if you will not use the new advanced octvb feature... It's a KS... Lolol


Other than SP, how do you know its a KS and not a K?


----------



## Bocraft

RobertoSampaio said:


> Look like a KS.... Lol...
> And if you will not use the new advanced octvb feature... It's a KS... Lolol


I also think it's KS.


----------



## RobertoSampaio

geriatricpollywog said:


> Other than SP, how do you know its a KS and not a K?


I'm kidding.... Lol


----------



## Nizzen

Bocraft said:


> I also think it's KS.


It's better than 99.9% of the KS's ever will be


----------



## matique

Took awhile, but i'm quite content with what my regular joe SP84 12900k could do, with limited cooling (dual 280) in a sff build. I don't think I could push it anymore (instability/lack of cooling). Learnt quite a bit from reading through this thread, from everyone's success/failures & general experience. 12900k on MSI Z690i Unify, 3090 FE, gskill trident z5 5600c36.

5.2p/4.1e/4.2ring, 6666c36 2T


















55x 1c / 54x 2-3c / 53x 4-5c / 52x 6-7c / 51x 8c









6666c36 [Gskill 5600c36]


----------



## RobertoSampaio

New MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME bios fixing the "resume from sleep" issue...









ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...


Updated: https://www.overclock.net/threads/asus-maximus-z690-extreme-i9-12900k-guide-load-lines-vf-curves-adaptive-voltage-by-core-octvb.1794957/post-28892755 Roberto in your first post on the hwinfo image I see a max package power of 140W. How can you do such a good OC with 140W only? Isn't...




www.overclock.net


----------



## dante`afk

HiLuckyB said:


> Over 5 mins of R23, With 20-21c water temp. Just after I took the screen shot hottest core touched 75c.


liquid metal or normal paste?



Bocraft said:


> View attachment 2544326


sick, what kit?


----------



## HiLuckyB

dante`afk said:


> liquid metal or normal paste?


I'm using liquid metal. It wouldn't make much sense to delid with direct die and only use normal paste. I want everything I can get 😎


----------



## Eitan

bscool said:


> I noticed the IHS on the Arctic is flat when I checked mine. the Noctua is most likely convex so it mates better with your CPU which most 12th gen are concave from ILM pressure. Its sounds like for you the washers might help. When i tried it I saw no difference but I really didnt expect to as my temps are already very good.
> 
> I think the people who will see changes/benefits from the washer mod are those seeing higher than normal temps if compared to another system/cooling setup.
> 
> Post back with your results it is always interesting to hear.


Yeah; the D15 does have a slightly convex coldplate.

The washer mod has improved my temperatures by a few degrees. Now I'm running at around 79-80c at 5Ghz after 10 minutes of R23. It also does not throttle when I push it up to 5.2Ghz, although it does run in the high 90s. E cores are enabled and run at 4Ghz.

I'm not sure if I'm going to bother trying anything else. I won't try direct die contact on an AIO, and everything else that I can do will provide no more than another degree or two of improvements.


----------



## Tsun

Please forgive if it's too basic question, but: is there any way to quickly assess CPU overclocking potential on a motherboard that is not Asus? I was thinking of comparing factory programmed V/f points, but is there any reference available to what would be considered good?


----------



## Hfhjfg

Tsun said:


> Please forgive if it's too basic question, but: is there any way to quickly assess CPU overclocking potential on a motherboard that is not Asus? I was thinking of comparing factory programmed V/f points, but is there any reference available to what would be considered good?


Very rough method: open BIOS at default settings and check CPU voltage at default 4.9 Ghz. Most BIOSes show current voltage.
It's not very accurate, but if you bin CPUs on the same motherboard it's OK.


----------



## Fire2

so far I’ve had sp82 sp80 and now today sp81…

81 and 80 seem much worse then the 82


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Hey all, selling off the remainder of my binning 12900Ks. I have an SP90 (P102, E68) CPU that, based on >1hr time playing with it, seems like it will be a good overclocker. It hit 5.2-6 ghz on adaptive voltage and ran my Samsung 5600c36 RAM at the 6000c32 Asus presets on an Apex. I included screens shots for the V/F curve points (it looks like it's one of the early version chips that has a v/f of 5.3ghz vs. 5.2ghz).

Feel free to reach out to me via PM if interested, otherwise I'll likely sell on eBay or hardwareswap.


----------



## ็HERO

Hi cletus-cassidy

CPU 12900K
I'm interested in your CPU. Would you like to sell it? and how much do you want to sell.




cletus-cassidy said:


> Hey all, selling off the remainder of my binning 12900Ks. I have an SP90 (P102, E68) CPU that, based on >1hr time playing with it, seems like it will be a good overclocker. It hit 5.2-6 ghz on adaptive voltage and ran my Samsung 5600c36 RAM at the 6000c32 Asus presets on an Apex. I included screens shots for the V/F curve points (it looks like it's one of the early version chips that has a v/f of 5.3ghz vs. 5.2ghz).
> 
> Feel free to reach out to me via PM if interested, otherwise I'll likely sell on eBay or hardwareswap.


----------



## dragn09

dragn09 said:


> 5.5 allcore without hyperthreading and e-cores. i guess this game really runs better with low latency ram, my ddr5 only has 6200cl40 profile because the gigabyte master doesnt post when changing ram voltages lol
> 
> View attachment 2544034


improvement 312fps to 343 with ram tuning: from 6000cl40 profile to 6000cl32 with sub timings all lowered. cant get it faster because my pmic has a 1.435v limit


----------



## rkneeshaw

EDIT: Nevermind. Turns out I had a Corsair RGB Hub that was dying and was shorting out my USB system, causing this instability. Removed it and things are solid as a rock again. It was coincidence that it started happening around the time I disabled CEP and that I was able to game for 4-5 hours without it crashing.

Probably a noob question here.

If I disable CEP it seems to introduce some random USB instability (USB system will reset itself, or full hang the PC). Still going to put more time on the PC to prove this, but currently I've got 4-5 hours of heavy usage and its not happening after enabling CEP, but of course my fps and performance suffers a bit.

How would I stabilize this with CEP disabled?

CEP seems to throttle based on temp and current draw according to scatter bencher.

So is this just typical overclock instability I need to work around using the traditional voltage/frequency knobs (e.g. dial back frequency or increase vcore)? Or is there another knob I could try to use to stabilize this with CEP disabled?


----------



## gtz

About to read thru this thread, the Z690 master arrives today and will be paired with a 12900KF. Gutted my X299 system a few days ago and will start building as soon as the master gets here.










Hoping a 420MM, 360MM, and thick 240MM rads will be enough to cool this thing down. Hoping to do a all core OC of 5.3 with e cores as high as I can get. 

Any quick pointers?


----------



## sugi0lover

Wrong forum. Sorry!


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Guys why I cant see sli option in nvidia control panel when i switched 2x 3090 from amd rig to the apex z690. Windows detects both cards but no sli option in the panel. Moreover, cpu cant finish r23 even I turn down to 54 ( run 55 fine before). Is it because I installed 2 m2 ssd under those cards or I need to plug 1 more 6 pin to the side of the mobo to get more power? Thanks.


----------



## fortecosi

Thanh Nguyen said:


> or I need to plug 1 more 6 pin to the side of the mobo


You should do this regardless of your current issue, Shamino said it should be always plugged in.


----------



## D-EJ915

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Guys why I cant see sli option in nvidia control panel when i switched 2x 3090 from amd rig to the apex z690. Windows detects both cards but no sli option in the panel. Moreover, cpu cant finish r23 even I turn down to 54 ( run 55 fine before). Is it because I installed 2 m2 ssd under those cards or I need to plug 1 more 6 pin to the side of the mobo to get more power? Thanks.


0072 (temporary) and 1101 (retail) are only bios with SLI key if you are not using one of those you won't be able to use SLI.


----------



## ChaosAD

fortecosi said:


> You should do this regardless of your current issue, Shamino said it should be always plugged in.


This side 6pin is for powering gpu only, right?


----------



## Falkentyne

ChaosAD said:


> This side 6pin is for powering gpu only, right?


It's apparently for giving 66W of power to the front USB 2.2 Gen 2x2 port for Quick Charge 4.0 and (apparently also) extra power to the PCIE Slots (e.g. for people running SLI, or Bios/shunt modded cards that can draw more than 100W through all of the PCIE ports combined. If the cable is not plugged in, the front USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 port only gets 27W from the motherboard. The manual seems to give conflicting information about the purpose of that connector, as on Z490 and Z590, it was only for extra power to the PCIE ports directly. (On both Z490 and Z590 maximus extreme, I had no problem pulling 100W directly through the PCIE slot on a modded RTX 3090 without the auxiliary power connectors (Molex on Z490, SATA on Z590, IIRC), but it's still a good idea to plug that cable in anyway, you have nothing to lose besides a little cable management).


----------



## cptclutch

Has anyone solved the issue that seems to be with some MSI boards where it won't boost past 5.1ghz no matter what? In hwinfo it shows my correct 5.3ghz boost clock but everything is locked at 5.1 in any benchmarks/tests. In the MSI PRO-A thread it seems like this is happening to some others. No power/thermal limits triggering in hwinfo.


----------



## gtz

Is it normal behavior for alder lake to have spikes in the vcore VID in HWInfo64 with fixed voltage? I set my 12900KF score in the BIOS at 1.275 (with Medium LLC, Aorus Z690 Master), and saw it spike to 1.4 in HWInfo64. The below screenshot was taken with HWInfo64 running during all the benchmark runs.

At 5.1P/4.1E/4.1Ring my CPU has yet to break 70c, so plenty of thermal headroom. Just worried about the spike to 1.4.

I'm hoping to stabilize a all p core OC of 5.3 and maxing out the e cores as far as I can.


----------



## Falkentyne

gtz said:


> Is it normal behavior for alder lake to have spikes in the vcore VID in HWInfo64 with fixed voltage? I set my 12900KF score in the BIOS at 1.275, and saw it spike to 1.4 in HWInfo64. The below screenshot was taken with HWInfo64 running during all the benchmark runs.
> 
> At 5.1P/4.1E/4.1Ring my CPU has yet to break 70c, so plenty of thermal headroom. Just worried about the spike to 1.4.
> 
> I'm hoping to stabilize a all p core OC of 5.3 and maxing out the e cores as far as I can.
> 
> View attachment 2545674


That spike means nothing whatsoever. TVB Voltage Optimization temp scaling (NOT the same thing as "TVB ratio clipping" or "OCTVB"), CPU Core/Cache ratios, AC and DC Loadlines all affect reported VID. Focus only on vcore on fixed voltage.


----------



## gtz

Falkentyne said:


> That spike means nothing whatsoever. TVB Voltage Optimization temp scaling (NOT the same thing as "TVB ratio clipping" or "OCTVB"), CPU Core/Cache ratios, AC and DC Loadlines all affect reported VID. Focus only on vcore on fixed voltage.


Thanks for the reply, I will keep on pushing. First full day with this system, have a lot to learn. I was a little worried about the temps after reading all the reports on bad temps. Turns out a triple rad setup is plenty.


----------



## Falkentyne

Anyone try yeeting the internal Core PLL voltage to 1.2v to see if that does anything semi useful?
(pretty sure MSI boards call this CPU SFR voltage, while Gigabyte calls it a 'trim' voltage in mv, that can only be set in offset steps, e.g. +15mv)

(yeeting PLL termination and CPU Standby voltages (both must be done at the same time or you get 00 on a cold boot) to 1.2v has been tested by Kingfaris10 as slightly improving Cache and E core OC stability a small amount. But Core and Ring PLL...¯\_(ツ)_/¯
(I haven't seen PLL Termination and CPU Standby on any MSI Bioses though).


----------



## Uksoldierboy

gtz said:


> About to read thru this thread, the Z690 master arrives today and will be paired with a 12900KF. Gutted my X299 system a few days ago and will start building as soon as the master gets here.
> 
> View attachment 2545320
> 
> 
> Hoping a 420MM, 360MM, and thick 240MM rads will be enough to cool this thing down. Hoping to do a all core OC of 5.3 with e cores as high as I can get.
> 
> Any quick pointers?


I've found Per Core usage to be a far better option than an ALL CORE OC, although i'm only using a 12600KF, it'll do 5.2 all core at 1.380, but you do miss out on performance for lightly thread stuff.

For now i've settled on 54/54/53/53/53/52 @1.4, Ecores @4.2 and cache @43


----------



## Dewmgaze

Falkentyne said:


> That spike means nothing whatsoever. TVB Voltage Optimization temp scaling (NOT the same thing as "TVB ratio clipping" or "OCTVB"), CPU Core/Cache ratios, AC and DC Loadlines all affect reported VID. Focus only on vcore on fixed voltage.


"TVB Voltage Optimizations" has no impact on vcore when vcore is manually set. Just tested it again myself to be sure.


----------



## Nizzen




----------



## Fire2

How many CPU’s did you go through before you found the sp97?


----------



## Alberto_It

Fire2 said:


> How many CPU’s did you go through before you found the sp97?


In my case the first and only time I bought my sample


----------



## schuldig

@Nizzen and @Alberto_It 
do you guys mind contributng to the binning statistics? Was it Vietnamnese (X) or Chinese (V) bin, week of production and when you purchased it?
Much appreciated 🙌


----------



## Alberto_It

schuldig said:


> @Nizzen and @Alberto_It
> do you guys mind contributng to the binning statistics? Was it Vietnamnese (X) or Chinese (V) bin, week of production and when you purchased it?
> Much appreciated 🙌


No I have only showed my Cpu SP values. It is for my personal use only

Purchased on launch day


----------



## Nizzen

schuldig said:


> @Nizzen and @Alberto_It
> do you guys mind contributng to the binning statistics? Was it Vietnamnese (X) or Chinese (V) bin, week of production and when you purchased it?
> Much appreciated 🙌


Too late;
Tray cpu and sanded 😊


----------



## Alberto_It

Nizzen said:


> Too late;
> Tray cpu and sanded 😊
> View attachment 2546216


I use the sand in summer to make castles on the beach


----------



## Nizzen

Alberto_It said:


> In my case the first and only time I bought my sample
> View attachment 2546201
> View attachment 2546201


Pay to win


----------



## dragn09

if i look at some recent posts here, why does a 107 sp p-core have a higher average vid than a 102 sp? the 102er even has 4 cores with a lower vid than the best core on the 107


----------



## Ichirou

Just popping in to mention that my CPU's P-core SP values went up after a few BIOS changes. Maybe burn-in?


----------



## satinghostrider

Ichirou said:


> Just popping in to mention that my CPU's P-core SP values went up after a few BIOS changes. Maybe burn-in?
> View attachment 2546497
> 
> View attachment 2546496


What is the latest BIOS you are flashed on?


----------



## Ichirou

satinghostrider said:


> What is the latest BIOS you are flashed on?


That was on BIOS 0812. The one that provided the best overclocking for my RAM. 2x8 GB SR B-die.
I dropped the Strix for the Edge though. A little better with more available headroom, albeit only marginally.
Can't set tRRD_S to 3 (and tFAW to 12) though.


----------



## Benni231990

holy **** how do you change the wallpaper from the bios to this girl??????


----------



## roooo

Benni231990 said:


> holy **** how do you change the wallpaper from the bios to this girl??????


That's not a wallpaper, that's a reflection.


----------



## Ichirou

Benni231990 said:


> holy **** how do you change the wallpaper from the bios to this girl??????


There's some option in the BIOS that lets you set it. The template is called "Se7en"


----------



## Exilon

So here's a fun one. I used needle nose pliers to turn the thumb screws on my EK Velocity block by another additional turn than what I could do with fingers and dropped 5C at 225W package power. Lesson here is that Alder Lake really needs a lot of mounting pressure... and thumbscrews without hex or philips screwheads are dumb.


----------



## Arni90

Looks like there's some performance to be had from delidding: Supercool Computers Direct-Die waterblock and delid tool for Intel Alder Lake Review| Intel Core i9-12900K in Pain | igor'sLAB


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Is it normal for my cpu was able to run 5.4-5.5 but not when I use sli 3090?


----------



## shadow85

What are the temps suppose to be for a stock (non-OC) 12900K with an AIO?

I have a EK Elite 360 AIO uand I am using only 3x lian li 120 SL fans in push as top mount rad. I am not using the supplied 6x EK Vadar 120s for push/pull from the AIO kit.

I think I have temp issues.
In MSI AB I have seen peak recorded temps of 90°C, although mainly it is around 60°C during load.

Maybe I have not installed somethinf correctly or applied TP properly.

Is these temps normal?


----------



## Simkin

Fire2 said:


> How many CPU’s did you go through before you found the sp97?


I have had three, and got two SP 81 and one SP 88 (P 97), i would guess you need some extreme luck or buy MANY to end up with high SP 90 😅


----------



## Vld

Hi folks,

Got a question - going to delid 12900K, what would be better :

Stock IHS + liquid metal + Optimus Foundation block
Direct die + Optimus Foundation ( or other ??? )

I’v done direct die cooling on 10/11 Gen with success, not sure bout 12 gen, is it possible ?

Thank you !


----------



## Nizzen

Vld said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> Got a question - going to delid 12900K, what would be better :
> 
> Stock IHS + liquid metal + Optimus Foundation block
> Direct die + Optimus Foundation ( or other ??? )
> 
> I’v done direct die cooling on 10/11 Gen with success, not sure bout 12 gen, is it possible ?
> 
> Thank you !


Direct die, Supercool Computer block.


----------



## Vld

Nizzen said:


> Direct die, Supercool Computer block.


How about Optimus block - possible or not ?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Vld said:


> How about Optimus block - possible or not ?


You need rockitcool direct die kit if u want to use optimus block. Optimus cant be used with supercool direct die because it already has a block on.


----------



## Vld

Thanh Nguyen said:


> You need rockitcool direct die kit if u want to use optimus block. Optimus cant be used with supercool direct die because it already has a block on.


I used to run 11900K without die frame, how you think - is it possible to do same with 12 gen ?


----------



## Hexes

Hexes said:


> Is this 12900K possibly the biggest SP impostor out there or am I just confused? Strix A Gaming shows SP90 (P99E73) in bios. At 5.1p/4.0e, LLC6 it requires 1.27v (1.29 bios set) avg. vcore to pass Cinebench R23 for one 10 min benchmark. To be stable for back-to-back 30 min runs it requires 10 ms more voltage. Liquid Freezer II 420 is starting to struggle at this point.
> 
> To pass at 5.2p/4.0e, 1.343v (1.36 bios set) was needed. Couldn't do it anymore due to temps so I disabled one P-core. Even that was already a way too much for the cooler.
> 
> This is of course socket sense, but guess the actual vcore is over 1.2v as well at this point.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2541445
> View attachment 2541446
> View attachment 2541447





Hfhjfg said:


> btw, maybe there is 1 bad core that makes whole CPU require higher voltage? So by limiting it to run at x51 (or by disabling HT on it) you can release other cores to work at full speed. Just a theory


Just to get back to this now that I have a good custom loop with Mo-Ra3 420. Well, I tested the CPU further and 5-10 degrees lower temps over the AIO didn't bring any salvation. P-cores still crash at those voltages. For the record 5.0p requires 1.225v to pass half an hour of Cinebench R23.

I also tested all cores individually. They are all exactly within 0.1v at 5.2 GHz. The best and the worst cores being slightly outliers by 0.3v-ish from next closest cores to them. Did the test by setting a minimum voltage to pass 10 mins of Cinebench. Even the best core needed 1.243v to pass which still seems a way too much for a SP99. What seems interesting is that best cores according to the VID table aren't those mentioned there in reality, at least not what comes to required voltage and overclocking.

With this custom loop I can run 5.2 all-core but getting close to its limit too. Chugs 300W of power. 

Does anyone actually have a worse CPU? Has to be a mistake with these SP numbers.


----------



## bscool

Hexes said:


> Just to get back to this now that I have a good custom loop with Mo-Ra3 420. Well, I tested the CPU further and 5-10 degrees lower temps over the AIO didn't bring any salvation. P-cores still crash at those voltages. For the record 5.0p requires 1.225v to pass half an hour of Cinebench R23.
> 
> I also tested all cores individually. They are all exactly within 0.1v at 5.2 GHz. The best and the worst cores being slightly outliers by 0.3v-ish from next closest cores to them. Did the test by setting a minimum voltage to pass 10 mins of Cinebench. Even the best core needed 1.243v to pass which still seems a way too much for a SP99. What seems interesting is that best cores according to the VID table aren't those mentioned there in reality, at least not what comes to required voltage and overclocking.
> 
> With this custom loop I can run 5.2 all-core but getting close to its limit too. Chugs 300W of power.
> 
> Does anyone actually have a worse CPU? Has to be a mistake with these SP numbers.


I know someone that has had 2 different 12900k and they are like yours maxing out at 52 all core. I think SP was in the upper 80s for both CPUs.

So I think it is kind of average for them(12900k to do 52 all core). People doing 53 all core + are rarer. The people you see onling posting top results are always a small percentage. Like IMC is also lotto. Mine can do 4266 gear 1 with DR b die ddr4. I dont do anything special just lotto. On CPU oc I can do 53 all core but it is pushing things. SP 95. P core 104 E core 77.


----------



## Hexes

bscool said:


> I know someone that has had 2 different 12900k and they are like yours maxing out at 52 all core. I think SP was in the upper 80s for both CPUs.
> 
> So I think it is kind of average for them(12900k to do 52 all core). People doing 53 all core + are rarer. The people you see onling posting top results are always a small percentage. Like IMC is also lotto. Mine can do 4266 gear 1 with DR b die ddr4. I dont do anything special just lotto. On CPU oc I can do 53 all core but it is pushing things. SP 95. P core 104 E core 77.


I think it's hard to call it average when only top of the line custom loop can actually run it at that 52x and that's 10 mins stability. For consistent Cinebench benchmarking it would be 10-20 mv more, about 1.36v which should land at ~310W. At that point it is borderline doable, if at all. Even at 51x this CPU would eat an average 280 AIO and struggle at 50x.

Sure, it is only Cinebench testing and no real world load. Cinebench just happens to be the baseline testing tool here to compare. Reasonably you could call this 51x all-core CPU at best. Either way it is very far from SP99 for P-cores.

Max for this CPU is ~4100 MHz for the RAM. That is already pushing SA to 1.45v.


----------



## HiLuckyB

I have a p-core 99, e-core 77, And until I did direct die and got the temps under 80c I could barley get 5.3GHz and 4.2GHz stable at like 85c.
Now I can run P-cores at 5.4GHz all core with 1 core at 5.5GHz, and e-cores at 4.3GHz 76-78c running R23.
It seems you really need to get the temperatures as low as you can.


----------



## Hexes

HiLuckyB said:


> I have a p-core 99, e-core 77, And until I did direct die and got the temps under 80c I could barley get 5.3GHz and 4.2GHz stable at like 85c.
> Now I can run P-cores at 5.4GHz all core with 1 core at 5.5GHz, and e-cores at 4.3GHz 76-78c running R23.
> It seems you really need to get the temperatures as low as you can.


I have to try but for 5.3 GHz this would be a way beyond 1.4v. No way coolable (~100C is my guess) even with this setup (Mo-Ra3 420, Velocity², KPx paste). Temps are 90-ish with 5.2 GHz. Yeah, Direct die this could probably hit that 5.3 GHz mark stable but pushing 90s temp-wise.

Lower temps didn't seem to help, at least not with 5.0-5.1 GHz frequencies. 5.0 GHz crashes at ~1.220v/73C max and 5.1 GHz at ~1.265v 82C.


----------



## HiLuckyB

I was delid with liquid metal under the IHS to get to 5.3 all core around 1.3v, But I needed direct die to do with liquid metal to do 5.4 with around 1.355v.
I can't get 5.5 all core stable even with 1.42v.
I will have to use my waterchiller and see if I can get the temps lower and see if this chip will become stable with lower temperatures, Because this chip definitely seems to scale with temperature.


----------



## Hexes

HiLuckyB said:


> I was delid with liquid metal under the IHS to get to 5.3 all core around 1.3v, But I needed direct die to do with liquid metal to do 5.4 with around 1.355v.
> I can't get 5.5 all core stable even with 1.42v.
> I will have to use my waterchiller and see if I can get the temps lower and see if this chip will become stable with lower temperatures, Because this chip definitely seems to scale with temperature.


Seems like that is pretty much in line what one could expect of a SP99 P-core CPU. More than 150 MHz ahead this CPU with equal voltage or requires ~0.1v less voltage to run those frequencies.


----------



## Vld

HiLuckyB said:


> I was delid with liquid metal under the IHS to get to 5.3 all core around 1.3v, But I needed direct die to do with liquid metal to do 5.4 with around 1.355v.
> I can't get 5.5 all core stable even with 1.42v.
> I will have to use my waterchiller and see if I can get the temps lower and see if this chip will become stable with lower temperatures, Because this chip definitely seems to scale with temperature.


Did you use any direct die frame, what waterblock ?


----------



## HiLuckyB

Vld said:


> Did you use any direct die frame, what waterblock ?


Supercool computer direct die waterblock. You replace the IHS with the bottom of there waterblock then bolt the top to it.
They sell it and a delid tool, Just have to message them on Facebook.


----------



## Vld

HiLuckyB said:


> Supercool computer direct die waterblock. You replace the IHS with the bottom of there waterblock then bolt the top to it.
> They sell it and a delid tool, Just have to message them on Facebook.



Thank you for info ! Seems that this is only option available atm. Damn - I really like my Optimus Foundation block ...


----------



## HiLuckyB

Supercool Computers Direct-Die waterblock and delid tool for Intel Alder Lake Review| Intel Core i9-12900K in Pain | igor'sLAB


Ever smaller manufacturing processes lead to ever higher thermal densities in CPUs and GPUs. This is one of the reasons why Intel's new Alder Lake CPUs run so hot that every air cooler almost has no…




www.igorslab.de


----------



## HiLuckyB

I believe rocket cool is working on something but, It's not out yet. You could always wait to see what the come up with. But for right now thay just have a delid tool and a copper IHS.


----------



## Vld

HiLuckyB said:


> I believe rocket cool is working on something but, It's not out yet. You could always wait to see what the come up with.


I think might try to direct die without any frame at all. I used to run 11900k this way - no problems. Next week will have some time to do experiments


----------



## Vld

Couple of findings with OC, maybe someone will find this useful. Here is my current 24/7 stable OC setup, on custom loop with Optimus Foundation, MO-RA420 + EK PE360 / 2 x D5 pumps, EK Monarch x2.

Cpu - 12900K @ 5.2 all core AVX 0
Mobo - Z690 Unify-X bios beta A.22
Ram - G.Skill 6600 34-38-38-56 2T

Temperature's in Prime95 6 hour long run, Small FFT AVX on 94 C max @ 360 W.

What I'v found out so far :

Manual voltage inputs only, I could not achieve stable OC on this board from boot to boot.
LLC 7 worked best for me, switching freq. 700, AUX load line 5
Manual Vcore 1.455
SA 0.95
CPU VDD 1.3 / VDDQ 1.45
RAM VDD / VDDQ 1.5
CPU AUX 2.0


----------



## Hfhjfg

Hexes said:


> Just to get back to this now that I have a good custom loop with Mo-Ra3 420. Well, I tested the CPU further and 5-10 degrees lower temps over the AIO didn't bring any salvation. P-cores still crash at those voltages. For the record 5.0p requires 1.225v to pass half an hour of Cinebench R23.
> 
> I also tested all cores individually. They are all exactly within 0.1v at 5.2 GHz. The best and the worst cores being slightly outliers by 0.3v-ish from next closest cores to them. Did the test by setting a minimum voltage to pass 10 mins of Cinebench. Even the best core needed 1.243v to pass which still seems a way too much for a SP99. What seems interesting is that best cores according to the VID table aren't those mentioned there in reality, at least not what comes to required voltage and overclocking.
> 
> With this custom loop I can run 5.2 all-core but getting close to its limit too. Chugs 300W of power.
> 
> Does anyone actually have a worse CPU? Has to be a mistake with these SP numbers.


Try to OC it on default memory/Ring/e-cores speeds. You can also try to set all cores 52x and check if these settings will let you to run lower voltage.

For my CPU it also requires much higher voltage to be stable at 52 when other parts run at their limits.


----------



## Hexes

Hfhjfg said:


> Try to OC it on default memory/Ring/e-cores speeds. You can also try to set all cores 52x and check if these settings will let you to run lower voltage.
> 
> For my CPU it also requires much higher voltage to be stable at 52 when other parts run at their limits.


I have tried and it doesn't help anything noticeable sadly.


----------



## mgkhn

edit: wrong section


----------



## bigfootnz

I've done gaming test with switching off E cores to see what impact will be on gaming. Most of the test were done on 1440p and just few either 1080p or 720p just for sake of test. What I've found that on 720p and 1080p, yes there can be reason to switch off E core but on 1440p I do not see any advantage, except that you can push P core 100 or 200MHz more but again that will not make any difference on 1440p or even less on 4k.

My tests was done on 52x4, 51x8 + TVB+1, E core and Ring auto, with 6400C30 2T memory with tight all timings (50-51ns in Aida)

First test 52x4, 51x8 + TVB+1, E core and Ring (3600) auto:

























































Second test was same settings 52x4, 51x8 + TVB+1, and Ring auto (4700) with E cores just disable with scroll lock:

























































Third test with E cores disabled in BIOS and 52x4, 51x8 + TVB+1, Ring (4700) auto:


----------



## Mad1137

Hey guys , please someone help me Oc my 12900k (sp85 ) I can pay for that ) via discord.. coz I have no idea why I can't make more then 5.0 ... Please someone


----------



## Paragram

I may have the record of lowest SP of 75?! lmao anyone got any lower, my P core SP is 84, I can barely OC at all its awful


----------



## Exilon

I have P-core SP 84 and I can do a TVB +2 profile for 53-51x boost outside of all-core loads without too much issue at AC/DC LL 35/98


----------



## Mad1137

Exilon said:


> I have P-core SP 84 and I can do a TVB +2 profile for 53-51x boost outside of all-core loads without too much issue at AC/DC LL 35/98


Can u share ur settings ?) I mean send ur profile from bios ) pls I got sp85 and hit more then 5.0


----------



## Hexes

Paragram said:


> I may have the record of lowest SP of 75?! lmao anyone got any lower, my P core SP is 84, I can barely OC at all its awful


How much vcore it needs to run 5.0/5.1/5.2 P-cores and with how much power? Among lowest overall SP for sure that I have seen but I bet mine is worse despite having a high SP. First look at [Official] Intel Core i9-12900K / i7-12700K P-core binning shows this CPU is among the worst if not the worst of those so far listed there. Voltage about equal but I think it will consume more power even without E-cores. Need to run that test to see.

Stumbled upon Frame Chaser's video where he is binning three 12900K CPUs. While I don't like his content nor recommend his advice to anyone, we can at least use the numbers he gets. Using these values I can do a similar test with this CPU and compare the numbers.

He has the same Asus Strix Z690-A Gaming motherboard as I have to check the SP. Before checking SP he uses MSI MPG Z690 Edge to test the CPUs with Cinebench R20 by lowering voltage 10 mv every three passes until the CPU fails. His starting point is 1.35v bios set at LLC6 (MSI) which comes out at 1.28v during benchmarking.

I tried to pick the closest LLC level to match his on Asus. This level seemed to be 5 when our voltages during bios set/idle and heavy load match. Not that this was necessary, but I just tried to get as close comparison as possible to his CPUs.

I loaded optimized defaults and after that only set LLC5, vcore 1.35v and P-cores to 52x. Everything else default. On top of that I set the pump and the radiator fans to maximum power and opened the window to cool the room a bit more. Wanted to make the temps to have as little impact as possible. Started Cinebench and instant hard lock. 1.36v set and same. 1.37v and now Cinebench runs for a while but crashes. Vcore was at ~1.31v. Continued until 1.39v which made the test to pass all three times. Vcore was 1.323v under load and temperature 82C. So what he used as a starting point voltage crashed for me instantly. Now lets get to the results.

His worst CPU, SP88 P-core, required 1.325v bios set or roughly 1.265v actual (socket sense) to pass 10 mins of CB20. His best a whopping 113 SP P-core CPU required only 1.215v bios set. You could see voltage was 1.162v under load. For the rest of the CPUs he doesn't show load voltage but the difference between load and bios set is close to 60 mv for all of them.

Then his second best CPU which is close to mine, SP96 for P-cores, required 1.290v/~1.233v. Despite being 3 points lower in SP it could pass the benchmark with about 0.09v lower vcore. This is almost exactly what I need for 5.0 GHz. Different test (CB20 vs CB23) but they are close enough. If you use his bios set values, you get pretty close to -4.375 mv per one point of SP gained. Now I don't know what are the actual values or formulas used for SP calculation but these numbers work for his three CPUs and their relation. If we apply this to my CPU the actual SP value should be ~75 for P-cores.

None of this is scientific nor very accurate so take it with a grain of salt. On top of that it's a very small sample size. Yet I think you get the idea this CPU is somehow mislabelled, broken or whatever. If you think it's just me doing something wrong by all means tell me what to try.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Hexes said:


> I tried to pick the closest LLC level to match his on Asus. This level seemed to be 5 when our voltages during bios set/idle and heavy load match. Not that this was necessary


I don’t think you can compare LLC between MSI and Asus since they are specific to individual motherboards.

And MSI boards don’t have die sense voltage so you can’t trust it.


----------



## Hexes

geriatricpollywog said:


> I don’t think you can compare LLC between MSI and Asus since they are specific to individual motherboards.
> 
> And MSI boards don’t have die sense voltage so you can’t trust it.


Strix doesn't have die sense voltage either. They are both socket sense. The voltages and power line up, that's the important part. Not LLC as in levels which are different per manufacturer as you said.


----------



## Nizzen

Do you think he bought 3, and got sp 113?
I think he bought it from e-bay or something. Prebinned 
He isn't stupid, so you could tell he wanted to try 3 different bins, just for mor clicks. He won


----------



## Hexes

Nizzen said:


> Do you think he bought 3, and got sp 113?
> I think he bought it from e-bay or something. Prebinned
> He isn't stupid, so you could tell he wanted to try 3 different bins, just for mor clicks. He won


Yeah, absolutely agreed. No, I do think he is stupid but also cunning.


----------



## LionAlonso

Hexes said:


> How much vcore it needs to run 5.0/5.1/5.2 P-cores and with how much power? Among lowest overall SP for sure that I have seen but I bet mine is worse despite having a high SP. First look at [Official] Intel Core i9-12900K / i7-12700K P-core binning shows this CPU is among the worst if not the worst of those so far listed there. Voltage about equal but I think it will consume more power even without E-cores. Need to run that test to see.
> 
> Stumbled upon Frame Chaser's video where he is binning three 12900K CPUs. While I don't like his content nor recommend his advice to anyone, we can at least use the numbers he gets. Using these values I can do a similar test with this CPU and compare the numbers.
> 
> He has the same Asus Strix Z690-A Gaming motherboard as I have to check the SP. Before checking SP he uses MSI MPG Z690 Edge to test the CPUs with Cinebench R20 by lowering voltage 10 mv every three passes until the CPU fails. His starting point is 1.35v bios set at LLC6 (MSI) which comes out at 1.28v during benchmarking.
> 
> I tried to pick the closest LLC level to match his on Asus. This level seemed to be 5 when our voltages during bios set/idle and heavy load match. Not that this was necessary, but I just tried to get as close comparison as possible to his CPUs.
> 
> I loaded optimized defaults and after that only set LLC5, vcore 1.35v and P-cores to 52x. Everything else default. On top of that I set the pump and the radiator fans to maximum power and opened the window to cool the room a bit more. Wanted to make the temps to have as little impact as possible. Started Cinebench and instant hard lock. 1.36v set and same. 1.37v and now Cinebench runs for a while but crashes. Vcore was at ~1.31v. Continued until 1.39v which made the test to pass all three times. Vcore was 1.323v under load and temperature 82C. So what he used as a starting point voltage crashed for me instantly. Now lets get to the results.
> 
> His worst CPU, SP88 P-core, required 1.325v bios set or roughly 1.265v actual (socket sense) to pass 10 mins of CB20. His best a whopping 113 SP P-core CPU required only 1.215v bios set. You could see voltage was 1.162v under load. For the rest of the CPUs he doesn't show load voltage but the difference between load and bios set is close to 60 mv for all of them.
> 
> Then his second best CPU which is close to mine, SP96 for P-cores, required 1.290v/~1.233v. Despite being 3 points lower in SP it could pass the benchmark with about 0.09v lower vcore. This is almost exactly what I need for 5.0 GHz. Different test (CB20 vs CB23) but they are close enough. If you use his bios set values, you get pretty close to -4.375 mv per one point of SP gained. Now I don't know what are the actual values or formulas used for SP calculation but these numbers work for his three CPUs and their relation. If we apply this to my CPU the actual SP value should be ~75 for P-cores.
> 
> None of this is scientific nor very accurate so take it with a grain of salt. On top of that it's a very small sample size. Yet I think you get the idea this CPU is somehow mislabelled, broken or whatever. If you think it's just me doing something wrong by all means tell me what to try.
> 
> View attachment 2547520


Temps are also a huge factor.


----------



## Hexes

LionAlonso said:


> Temps are also a huge factor.


Yes, but this CPU running 5.0 GHz crashes at ~1.22v even if I lower temps under 70C. Temps are not causing this CPU to be bad.


----------



## Exilon

Mad1137 said:


> Can u share ur settings ?) I mean send ur profile from bios ) pls I got sp85 and hit more then 5.0


Here are the relevant parts on the ASUS BIOS dump of my profile.
The +2Boost Profile automatically increments ratio limits by +2 and applies TVB derates according ASUS's algorithm.
In this case it's all-core 51x below 64C and 50x below 74C and 49x above that.













Code:


Ai Overclock Tuner [XMP I]
ASUS MultiCore Enhancement [Disabled – Enforce All limits]
SVID Behavior [Auto]
Performance Core Ratio [By Core Usage]
1-Core Ratio Limit [51]
2-Core Ratio Limit [51]
3-Core Ratio Limit [50]
4-Core Ratio Limit [50]
5-Core Ratio Limit [49]
6-Core Ratio Limit [49]
7-Core Ratio Limit [49]
8-Core Ratio Limit [49]
Efficient Core Ratio [Sync All Cores]
ALL-Core Ratio Limit [40]
IA CEP Enable [Disabled]

TVB Voltage Optimizations [Enabled]
Overclocking TVB [+2Boost Profile]

CPU Core/Cache Voltage [Adaptive Mode]
CPU Load-line Calibration [Level 4:Recommended for OC]
Synch ACDC Loadline with VRM Loadline [Enabled]
IA AC Load Line [0.35]
IA DC Load Line [Auto]

Ring Down Bin [Auto]
Min. CPU Cache Ratio [Auto]
Max. CPU Cache Ratio [42]

CPU L2 Voltage [Manual Mode]
- CPU L2 Voltage Override [1.37000]


----------



## EarlZ

Has there been any development or discovery if the batch numbers point to anything? I recently got my 12900K which I will build during the weekend and the Batch# is X131T116 made in Vietnam.


----------



## Nizzen

EarlZ said:


> Has there been any development or discovery if the batch numbers point to anything? I recently got my 12900K which I will build during the weekend and the Batch# is X131T116 made in Vietnam.


Totally random. So no


----------



## dante`afk

pretty good


----------



## sippo

dante`afk said:


> pretty good
> 
> View attachment 2548138


Is there posibility to do test in same clocks,voltage,llc and so on ?


----------



## nickolp1974

Is it worth trying the lottery again??? or will Intel be binning hard for the KS variant??


----------



## Falkentyne

nickolp1974 said:


> Is it worth trying the lottery again??? or will Intel be binning hard for the KS variant??


A few months before the 9900KS came out, the 9900K's of recent pack/batch dates around that time were mostly average to very bad overclockers, compared to chips around launch (which were anywhere between amazingly good to amazingly bad--truly random, of course if you got silicon that was cut from the middle of the wafer, you did better, but no way to know without pre-binning/testing).

So it's a pretty safe conclusion that if you want a good clocker now, it's best to NOT play the lottery--either buy pre-tested or wait for the 12900KS.
Or if you already have a chip, just keep what you have and wait for Raptor Lake, which should clock as high on average as the best 12900KS chips (remember 10900K's? The average OC on 10900K was about equal to high 9900KS chips, except you got more cores).


----------



## sugi0lover

nickolp1974 said:


> Is it worth trying the lottery again??? or will Intel be binning hard for the KS variant??


I see many people in my country are still binning 12900K and even low SP90 is rare nowadays. Most of them are low SP80 or 70.


----------



## EarlZ

I just finished building my new system and my P-Cores are SP100. I haven't started to overclock yet but I hope SP100 is good. I'm also new to Asus mobo's so I'm not sure what the SP entails.


----------



## nickolp1974

Falkentyne said:


> A few months before the 9900KS came out, the 9900K's of recent pack/batch dates around that time were mostly average to very bad overclockers, compared to chips around launch (which were anywhere between amazingly good to amazingly bad--truly random, of course if you got silicon that was cut from the middle of the wafer, you did better, but no way to know without pre-binning/testing).
> 
> So it's a pretty safe conclusion that if you want a good clocker now, it's best to NOT play the lottery--either buy pre-tested or wait for the 12900KS.
> Or if you already have a chip, just keep what you have and wait for Raptor Lake, which should clock as high on average as the best 12900KS chips (remember 10900K's? The average OC on 10900K was about equal to high 9900KS chips, except you got more cores).





sugi0lover said:


> I see many people in my country are still binning 12900K and even low SP90 is rare nowadays. Most of them are low SP80 or 70.


Thanks Guys, pretty much what i thought. Hopefully get my hands on a KS pretty soon then. Will stick with this 83, in the meantime more DDR5 tweaking!!


----------



## zkareemz

please rate my OC
I'm new to OC in general, .. so any advices or guidance to enhance my result will be more than appreciated! 

p: 55-55-54-54-53-53-52-52
e: 42-42-42-42-41-41-41-41
u: 40
vcore: 1.4v


----------



## Supershaft

Got a Sp118 12900k and gskill ddr 5 that lets me do 5.2 p cores and 4.1 e core at 1.29v.

For some reason the L3 latency test in Aida returns 65ns instead of the usual 10-15ns I would get on my previous system. Is it due to not running a fresh install or am I messing up a bios setting?


----------



## Nizzen

Supershaft said:


> Got a Sp118 12900k and gskill ddr 5 that lets me do 5.2 p cores and 4.1 e core at 1.29v.
> 
> For some reason the L3 latency test in Aida returns 65ns instead of the usual 10-15ns I would get on my previous system. Is it due to not running a fresh install or am I messing up a bios setting?


Show us bios screenshot of v/f curve and bios screen om AI


----------



## geriatricpollywog




----------



## Supershaft

So any idea about the latency issue?


----------



## matique

Supershaft said:


> View attachment 2548346
> 
> View attachment 2548345
> 
> 
> So any idea about the latency issue?


Think he meant showing your sp, but idk how you know yours is sp118 if you're on msi.


----------



## Supershaft

well the culprit appears to be some kind of program because a fresh install gives me normal scores.


----------



## dante`afk

sippo said:


> Is there posibility to do test in same clocks,voltage,llc and so on ?


its the same, just octvb in idle sometimes 5300, sometimes 5400


----------



## matique

My Rockit delid kit should be arriving soon. Hopefully nothing goes wrong, will post results when i'm done testing.


----------



## PhuCCo

matique said:


> My Rockit delid kit should be arriving soon. Hopefully nothing goes wrong, will post results when i'm done testing.


Pay attention to the little surface mount caps around the bottom edge of the IHS when doing your delid. The Rockit Cool kit doesn't hug the IHS to keep it straight when doing the shearing, and I know someone who had knocked them all off while doing 1 out of like 5 cpus. The IHS started pushing at an angle. Maybe it was user error, but after looking at my own tool it sure does look like a potential issue. I expected the top piece of the tool to have a tight fit around the sides of the IHS to stop it from trying to move crooked, but there are giant gaps all around the IHS. The only thing touching the IHS is the metal pusher on the allen screw.


----------



## firezen42

Are you referring “118” to the CPU Force 2 score (lower the better)? If that’s the case, your chip might be average… Try just set 52x multiplier in Bios and press F10, then return to Bios to see what’s the Auto voltage at 5.2GHz. This voltage is safe to run Cinebench R23 and stable for daily use. Also, it is MSI’s way to reflect silicon quality of your chip. I’ve binned three 12900K and their CPU Force 2 scores are respectively 118, 113, 98. Here’s the auto voltage at 5.2GHz for my score 98 sample. The other two samples scoring 100 respectively show 1.362V and 1.327V.


----------



## sugi0lover

Another SP103 posted at Korean PC forum~


----------



## cptclutch

Any tips on how to get my 12700k boosting past 5.1ghz? On a MSI Pro A and just can't get it past no matter what I do, including using intel XTU. Starting to loose my patience and think that something is defective.


----------



## Simkin

-----


----------



## Dinnzy

Just removed the block, have a new cpu to test also, what do you guys think of this spread ?


----------



## Hfhjfg

Dinnzy said:


> Just removed the block, have a new cpu to test also, what do you guys think of this spread ?


Looks like you were loosing 10-15 degrees Celsius because of bad coldplate contact.


----------



## EarlZ

Hfhjfg said:


> Looks like you were loosing 10-15 degrees Celsius because of bad coldplate contact.


Can you educate me on what are the things to look for in that photo to be able to tell that it was a bad contact/mount?


----------



## Dinnzy

Also my Z690 apex PCB is warped with and without the block installed, pretty sure it was flat when I made the purchase.


----------



## satinghostrider

Dinnzy said:


> Also my Z690 apex is PCB is warped with and without the block installed, pretty sure it was flat when I made the purchase.


Do you have a pic of the warp?


----------



## Huseyinbaykal

Which aio do you guys recomend for 12900k and apex?
Arctic is not compatible as they say.


----------



## Nizzen

Huseyinbaykal said:


> Which aio do you guys recomend for 12900k and apex?
> Arctic is not compatible as they say.


I used arctic 2 420 for the first weeks before I got the EK 1700 block. It was a very close fit, but it wil fit. Worked great!
Atleast one other guy here, used/using it with great sucsess 
Found a old picture from 9. November last year:
Doesn't show the close fit, but it showing that I'm using it


----------



## Huseyinbaykal

Nizzen said:


> I used arctic 2 420 for the first weeks before I got the EK 1700 block. It was a very close fit, but it wil fit. Worked great!
> Atleast one other guy here, used/using it with great sucsess


thanks for the info. Should I try it? Whic part doesnt fit? Can you describe? Is it causing any problems to the motherboard?


----------



## Nizzen

Huseyinbaykal said:


> thanks for the info. Should I try it? Whic part doesnt fit? Can you describe? Is it causing any problems to the motherboard?


It's like 0.1mm space between the bracket and the vrm heatsink 😅


----------



## bscool

Huseyinbaykal said:


> thanks for the info. Should I try it? Whic part doesnt fit? Can you describe? Is it causing any problems to the motherboard?


I am using Arctic 420 on z690 Apex, worked on Strix d4 also. Temps are on par with my Raystorm. Excellent AIO for the money.

Here is a screenshot of [email protected] that is pretty good for any AIO.

Edit and the mounting is tight as @Nizzen says and kinda janky in my opinion but it works.


----------



## Huseyinbaykal

bscool said:


> I am using Arctic 420 on z690 Apex, worked on Strix d4 also. Temps are on par with my Raystorm. Excellent AIO for the money.
> 
> Here are some screenshot of [email protected] that is pretty good for any AIO.


some users said the lga1700 backplate is hitting the cpu bracket at the back. Will this cause any issue? And there is one type of 1700 bracket right? Somewhere I read that there is a rev2 for lga 1700 bracket. Just dont want to pay something that wont work. I cant return an item if I open the box in my country 😂


----------



## bscool

Huseyinbaykal said:


> some users said the lga1700 backplate is hitting the cpu bracket at the back. Will this cause any issue? And there is one type of 1700 bracket right? Somewhere I read that there is a rev2 for lga 1700 bracket. Just dont want to pay something that wont work. I cant return an item if I open the box in my country 😂


It doesnt hit anything on mine that it shouldnt. If they didnt post pics I dont what they mean. It works for me.

Running memtest so cant move the fan but you get the idea.

It is suppose to put pressure on the MB backplate what else is the reason for a backplate?









Microsoft OneDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Online.


Store photos and docs online. Access them from any PC, Mac or phone. Create and work together on Word, Excel or PowerPoint documents.



1drv.ms


----------



## Huseyinbaykal

bscool said:


> It doesnt hit anything on mine that it shouldnt. If they didnt post pics I dont what they mean. It works for me.
> 
> Running memtest so cant move the fan but you get the idea.
> 
> It is suppose to put pressure on the MB backplate what else is the reason for a backplate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Microsoft OneDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Online.
> 
> 
> Store photos and docs online. Access them from any PC, Mac or phone. Create and work together on Word, Excel or PowerPoint documents.
> 
> 
> 
> 1drv.ms


you are awsome 👍👍👍 thanks for the photos mate.


----------



## Huseyinbaykal

This is what they say problematic but I dont know


----------



## bscool

Huseyinbaykal said:


> View attachment 2549607
> 
> This is what they say problematic but I dont know


Ok. Put on backplate BEFORE installing CPU will help with that. Should always do that if you can with lga 1700.

Otherwise it will bow out like that without a backplate or much more likely too.


----------



## Dinnzy

So after reseating, I can pass again r23 at 5.1 p, 40 e with my highest core hitting 85. Still doesn’t seem right for an sp 98 p core on a double radiator custom loop. With 12 pan push pull in a O11D. My vcore under load is 1.192 using adapative voltage. I feel like she should be able to do so much better ;p


----------



## Huseyinbaykal

bscool said:


> Ok. Put on backplate BEFORE installing CPU will help with that. Should always do that if you can with lga 1700.
> 
> Otherwise it will bow out like that without a backplate or much more likely too.


thanks for the tip mate 🙏🙏🙏


----------



## Simkin

Dinnzy said:


> So after reseating, I can pass again r23 at 5.1 p, 40 e with my highest core hitting 85. Still doesn’t seem right for an sp 98 p core on a double radiator custom loop. With 12 pan push pull in a O11D. My vcore under load is 1.192 using adapative voltage. I feel like she should be able to do so much better ;p


For comparison, my SP 97 p core at 5.1p/3.9e/4.1ring under load (Cinebench R23) is 1.208v and hitting 88-90 highest core (ambient 22c) with 420mm AIO.

A custom loop should maybe do better? But these cpu's are hot as hell.


----------



## Nizzen

Simkin said:


> For comparison, my SP 97 p core at 5.1p/3.9e/4.1ring under load (Cinebench R23) is 1.208v and hitting 88-90 highest core (ambient 22c) with 420mm AIO.
> 
> A custom loop should maybe do better? But these cpu's are hot as hell.


Hot in cinebench, cold in gaming. I'm gaming on 12900k, and playing "cinebench" with Threadripper


----------



## Simkin

Nizzen said:


> Hot in cinebench, cold in gaming. I'm gaming on 12900k, and playing "cinebench" with Threadripper


Yes, much colder in gaming 👍


----------



## Nizzen

Simkin said:


> Yes, much colder in gaming 👍


Wonder if this cpu is build for gaming 🤔
🎅


----------



## gecko991

what kind of score in R23.


----------



## sliflex

Huseyinbaykal said:


> some users said the lga1700 backplate is hitting the cpu bracket at the back. Will this cause any issue? And there is one type of 1700 bracket right? Somewhere I read that there is a rev2 for lga 1700 bracket. Just dont want to pay something that wont work. I cant return an item if I open the box in my country 😂


I had this problem with the brackets i tried everything with the first bracket, reseated a bunch of times but my chip would go to 100c on any load bigger then browsing the web. I was convinced i seated my cooler correct so i was depressed for about a week, thinking i had a (VERY) bad silicon lottery problem. until i tried another bracket   problem solved. i run 5.2 ghz on 1.25v and low-mid 70s max temps OCCT stresstest. you have to tighten it pretty firm.


----------



## D-EJ915

Huseyinbaykal said:


> View attachment 2549607
> 
> This is what they say problematic but I dont know


A lot of backplates are like this it shouldn't make a difference.


----------



## Hfhjfg

Has anyone tried to install new beta BIOS versions from ASUS?
They claim - Improve system performance and stability.


----------



## bscool

Hfhjfg said:


> Has anyone tried to install new beta BIOS versions from ASUS?
> They claim - Improve system performance and stability.


They say that with almost every bios, what else would they say decreases performance and reduces stability? 😁


----------



## EarlZ

gecko991 said:


> what kind of score in R23.


I get about 26,980 on multi-thread at stock settings with XMP Enabled. Don't know if that's low or the expected result.


----------



## Hfhjfg

EarlZ said:


> I get about 26,980 on multi-thread at stock settings with XMP Enabled. Don't know if that's low or the expected result.


Completely fine for stock settings.



bscool said:


> They say that with almost every bios, what else would they say decreases performance and reduces stability? 😁


Asked himself - answered himself.
Actually this is literally what they did in 1201 BIOS. 
Don't update (at least if you are on ASUS TUF).
Previously i was able to manage 5.4Ghz all cores OC (5.2 + 2 bins OCTVB), Now it can't even hold 5.2. Have to rollback to the previous version.


----------



## Akadaka

Simkin said:


> Yes, much colder in gaming 👍


Yeah, it's insane how hot these chips get running a benchmark than you game and it doesn't break a sweat.


----------



## Nizzen

DDR5 makes a few fps in Battlefield 2042:
6800c32 49ns
























Elden ring 1080p max settings


----------



## leonman44

Finally after all these months I got my system up and running. Started ocing this babe but I already have a question, why is llc 4 for asus recommended ? I get huge vdroop , shouldn’t i increase the llc until almost no vdroop happens ? I am over ocing using manual values and fixed frequencies.


----------



## Falkentyne

leonman44 said:


> Finally after all these months I got my system up and running. Started ocing this babe but I already have a question, why is llc 4 for asus recommended ? I get huge vdroop , shouldn’t i increase the llc until almost no vdroop happens ? I am over ocing using manual values and fixed frequencies.


Increasing LLC does reduce vdroop but also worsens transient voltage dips that happen when load changes. You also get those from windows mouse polling when you move the mouse around. Check some of actaully hardware overclocking (buildzoid's) videos on youtube. Just moving the mouse causes a violent transient voltage dip that you can NOT see on hwinfo or on any motherboard sensors whatsoever (although the Asus ROG Volticon can pick it up). The stronger the LLC, the larger those dips drop below your "steady state" voltage. When you're doing heavy loads or stress tests, those dips can cause you to BSOD if they are too large.

Lower levels of LLC reduce those dips, which means the steady state voltage that you can read on sensors is closer to your "true stable" vcore, if you move the mouse repeatedly and don't BSOD at --for example: 1.40v bios set + LLC4= 1.20v load, but if you set 1.220v set, + LLC8= 1.220v load, run move the mouse around and then BSOD after a few seconds, even though 1.220v average is higher than 1.200v average, then you have your explanation.

There's no problem whatsoever with using something like 1.420v bios set + LLC4 and dropping down to 1.20v load. 1.39v idle in windows (after normal idle droop) will do nothing bad to your CPU.


----------



## leonman44

Falkentyne said:


> Increasing LLC does reduce vdroop but also worsens transient voltage dips that happen when load changes. You also get those from windows mouse polling when you move the mouse around. Check some of actaully hardware overclocking (buildzoid's) videos on youtube. Just moving the mouse causes a violent transient voltage dip that you can NOT see on hwinfo or on any motherboard sensors whatsoever (although the Asus ROG Volticon can pick it up). The stronger the LLC, the larger those dips drop below your "steady state" voltage. When you're doing heavy loads or stress tests, those dips can cause you to BSOD if they are too large.
> 
> Lower levels of LLC reduce those dips, which means the steady state voltage that you can read on sensors is closer to your "true stable" vcore, if you move the mouse repeatedly and don't BSOD at --for example: 1.40v bios set + LLC4= 1.20v load, but if you set 1.220v set, + LLC8= 1.220v load, run move the mouse around and then BSOD after a few seconds, even though 1.220v average is higher than 1.200v average, then you have your explanation.
> 
> There's no problem whatsoever with using something like 1.420v bios set + LLC4 and dropping down to 1.20v load. 1.39v idle in windows (after normal idle droop) will do nothing bad to your CPU.


Oh I didn’t know that and I had indeed such instability issues with the 8600k using llc7 that couldn’t explain it. From the other side using a lower llc then wouldn’t increase the idle/light load temps ?

So far did a 5.1/4ghz oc using 1.27v llc 6
I couldn’t get it stable even with 1.32v at llc4.


----------



## Falkentyne

leonman44 said:


> Oh I didn’t know that and I had indeed such instability issues with the 8600k using llc7 that couldn’t explain it. From the other side using a lower llc then wouldn’t increase the idle/light load temps ?
> 
> So far did a 5.1/4ghz oc using 1.27v llc 6
> I couldn’t get it stable even with 1.32v at llc4.


Light load is not as important as you think.
And 1.32v @ LLC4 is about equivalent to 1.245v LLC6 at all core load at 5.1 ghz in something like R23. There's more than a 50mv voltage difference when you go from LLC6 to LLC4 at the exact same vcore (considering max all core load). This difference is going to be greater the heavier the load and power draw, however.
Do you have a maximus board to read die sense voltage?


----------



## leonman44

Falkentyne said:


> Light load is not as important as you think.
> And 1.32v @ LLC4 is about equivalent to 1.245v LLC6 at all core load at 5.1 ghz in something like R23. There's more than a 50mv voltage difference when you go from LLC6 to LLC4 at the exact same vcore (considering max all core load). This difference is going to be greater the heavier the load and power draw, however.
> Do you have a maximus board to read die sense voltage?


I have the Asus Z690 Hero , first time having such a good board so there are some things that actually I don’t know but most basic oc stuff is identical to to my z370 prime board.
Also the voltage report is always lower even at idling both in bios and in software. For an example I set 1.28 llc6 and it reports ~1.25V.


----------



## fortecosi

unimportant, edited


----------



## pitajax

Shonk said:


> Does Anyone have any experience with
> 
> "Disk has been surprised removed"
> 
> all 3 sata drives did this just now in a 700fps load screen in final fantasy 14
> 
> I presume its one of these 4 causing it
> 
> Dynamic Vcore = -0.035V
> Internal VCCSA = 1.100V (Auto was 1.342V)
> DRAM Vdd/VddQ = 1.260V
> VDD2 CPU = 1.200V


Hi, 
This message is due to X-box application bug, if you open device manager under disk drives (show hidden...) there has a lot of Xvd ghost drives from Xbox app.


----------



## leonman44

Guys can’t get my 5.1ghz all core oc stable in Prime95 Small FFT’s with Avx off even at 1.42V llc4.
Is this too much to ask for ? Or this is a potato chip ?


----------



## fat4l

sugi0lover said:


> I see many people in my country are still binning 12900K and even low SP90 is rare nowadays. Most of them are low SP80 or 70.


Well my 12900K is the "release date" one and its SP 90. I'm certainly not happy with this but ....I gotta wait for 12900KS  ...those must be like Sp130


----------



## Nizzen

fat4l said:


> Well my 12900K is the "release date" one and its SP 90. I'm certainly not happy with this but ....I gotta wait for 12900KS  ...those must be like Sp130


Some said on "discord" that 12900ks "ES" isn't any better than my 12900k, so maybe average 12900ks is in the 85-92 SP rating average? We have to wait and see 

I think most sp85 have no problem with 5200mhz all core and one core to 5.5ghz.Even SP80 can do that?


----------



## leonman44

Guys what stress tests do you use for stability?


----------



## Nizzen

leonman44 said:


> Guys what stress tests do you use for stability?


Playing Battlefield V and Battlefield 2042  If it's stable in 2 hours, the memory is pretty stable 
For me, this is harder than any memorytest. "Y-crouncher" is pretty good too for cpu and memory stability.


I like to run Karhu for 30min first before playing. I'm not the "running memorytest for 48h" type of guy 

If the gaming pc is stable in the games I'm playing, it's stable enough for me.


----------



## fat4l

Nizzen said:


> Some said on "discord" that 12900ks "ES" isn't any better than my 12900k, so maybe average 12900ks is in the 85-92 SP rating average? We have to wait and see
> 
> I think most sp85 have no problem with 5200mhz all core and one core to 5.5ghz.Even SP80 can do that?


hmmm interesting.
Haven't seen more than 120 P cores yet.
This video is quite good about Sp comparison:


----------



## Dinnzy

I can not pass 5.2 r23 on adaptive voltage to save my life. I pass 5.1 p 4.1 e at llc 3 1.44 IA .35 DC 1.1 and limit set to 1500. Though my hottest core is reaching 90. Any recommendations for getting 5.2 working? On a duel custom look sp 89 (p core 98) increasing the voltage does not seem to help as if I go beyond 1.44 for 5.1 I blue screen.


----------



## Nizzen

Dinnzy said:


> I can not pass 5.2 r23 on adaptive voltage to save my life. I pass 5.1 p 4.1 e at llc 3 1.44 IA .35 DC 1.1 and limit set to 1500. Though my hottest core is reaching 90. Any recommendations for getting 5.2 working? On a duel custom look sp 89 (p core 98) increasing the voltage does not seem to help as if I go beyond 1.44 for 5.1 I blue screen.


First: What do you use your computer for? Playing Cinebench 24/7? I bet it's possible for you to play every game @ 5300mhz all core all day long with ease


----------



## leonman44

5.1Ghz P-cores , 4Ghz E-cores passed all the tests in Ycruncher at 1.42V llc4 along with 6200mhz 34cas , cant do any better than this it fails the first pass even at 1.4V or 4.1ghz E-cores , i have cursed silicon. Very unhappy with my chip i should just buy it from Amazon so i could return it but now i have to live with it... Even the SP score droped from 81 to 79....
Anyone else with such bad luck?


----------



## nickolp1974

leonman44 said:


> View attachment 2550500
> 
> 
> 5.1Ghz P-cores , 4Ghz E-cores passed all the tests in Ycruncher at 1.42V llc4 along with 6200mhz 34cas , cant do any better than this it fails the first pass even at 1.4V or 4.1ghz E-cores , i have cursed silicon. Very unhappy with my chip i should just buy it from Amazon so i could return it but now i have to live with it... Even the SP score droped from 81 to 79....
> Anyone else with such bad luck?


i have SP 83 and can only run Y crucher at 5GHz 1.35v LLC4 temps are to high to go further using a 360 Lian li gallahad


----------



## leonman44

nickolp1974 said:


> i have SP 83 and can only run Y crucher at 5GHz 1.35v LLC4 temps are to high to go further using a 360 Lian li gallahad












This Cpu gets crazy hot , I am on a dual 360 custom loop and my extreme radiator is in push/pull configuration that’s why I can push that much voltage but during summer I may have to undervolt/underclock too because ambient temperature will rise more than +15c.


----------



## gtz

leonman44 said:


> View attachment 2550514
> 
> 
> This Cpu gets crazy hot , I am on a dual 360 custom loop and my extreme radiator is in push/pull configuration that’s why I can push that much voltage but during summer I may have to undervolt/underclock too because ambient temperature will rise more than +15c.


Bad luck there, I don't know what SP my 12900KF since I have a Giga Master board. But I run 24/7 5.2P/4.1E/4.3R at 1.35 vcore. Passes everything I throw at it and has yet to reach 80C.

I have ran 5.3 all core and 4.1e all core and ran 380 watts but that is just for benching at 1.41vcore, but even then I still don't hit 100C. Maybe I have a 90sp+ chip.

I am running a triple rad however. 420,360, and thick 240.










My CB20 5.3 run at 380 watts


----------



## nickolp1974

leonman44 said:


> View attachment 2550514
> 
> 
> This Cpu gets crazy hot , I am on a dual 360 custom loop and my extreme radiator is in push/pull configuration that’s why I can push that much voltage but during summer I may have to undervolt/underclock too because ambient temperature will rise more than +15c.


i shall be going the same way once i have a KS installed.


----------



## sugi0lover

*[This is very deep insight from a guy who tested a lot of 12900K (around 84)]*
Edit : To make it clear, I am not the guy who wrote this. I just translated it to English.

*1. Check SP value, P core and E core value*
-. Check the SP value based on the ASUS board and check the P-core and E-core in detail.
-. If it is SP90 or higher, it is possible to stabilize the Cinebench by about 51/41/43 in 360mm water cooling
-. When IHS removed, about 52/41/45 is also possible. (Certainly, the higher the P-core, the lower voltage, higher clock possible.)
-. Based on general SP90, it seems to be between 98 and 100 P core.
-. I saw the E-Core from the 60's to the 84's, but there doesn't seem to be much difference between the 70's and the 80's.
(Based on custom water cooling, if the E-core is stabilized by 43 at the P-core's maximum actual clock clock, it's high-end, and 42 seems to be okay.)
-. There are cases where the SP value is high but the temperature is high. In that case, the specific core temperature is high and the temperature deviation is large.
-. It has become very difficult these days to pick SP90 or higher. I'm wondering if 1 out of 10 will come out.
-. When running LINX, the cache multiplier as well as the core multiplier must be lowered to run well.
-. Based on what I have touched, it was about 40% for SP70, 56% for SP80, 4% for SP90.
-. SP100s was purchased as a biined product other than the initial stage
*2. IMC checklist (based on two memory inserted)*
-. 6400 1T bootable and not bad if Memtest runs
(Among the 7000 2T stabilized CPUs, the 6400 1T can only boot and immediately crash when running Memtest.)
-. It is very good if the 6600 1T can boot and Memtest runs.
(Mostly the 6600 1T was not easy.)
-. Most of the 2T settings were stable up to 6800 clocks, except for the really bad IMC.
-. A CPU with a good IMC will boot very well up to memory clock 7466. (stabilization is separate)
(The 6800 2T clock is also trained immediately upon booting. If training is performed in 2 or 3 times at the 6800 clock, it is related to the IMC quality)
-. From 7600 clocks, it seems to be the realm of the gods.
-. The better the IMC, the better the detailed memory timing is tightened.
Conversely, if it is bad, it is sometimes impossible to boot with the existing stabilization value.
-. SP value and IMC quality should be considered separately. SP100's also had some bad IMCs.
*3. DDR5 memory*
-. Use of Hynix module - Even if the silicon quality is bad, it is 6200 possible.
-. There is not much difference between expensive xmp memory sticks and cheap basic memory sticks. You just have to be lucky to draw.
-. Other than RGB effect for 6200 or less xmp memory, it is best to use the basic memory sticks with a heat sink.
-. Product using Samsung module - RAM timing is a little looser than Hynix, but as long as you bin it well, it's fine.
With 4 sets of xmp ram, only 1 set was capable of 6933 clocks, and 3 sets were not much different from the basic memory sticks.
-. Products using Micron Module - It's just DDR5 not for OC.

Original Link
쿨엔조이,쿨앤조이 coolenjoy, cooln, 쿨엔, 검은동네


----------



## Antsu

Nizzen said:


> Some said on "discord" that 12900ks "ES" isn't any better than my 12900k, so maybe average 12900ks is in the 85-92 SP rating average? We have to wait and see
> 
> I think most sp85 have no problem with 5200mhz all core and one core to 5.5ghz.Even SP80 can do that?


Easy to start believing bin doesn't matter when you bin CPUs like a madman on every launch, but it definitely does. My SP81 is a joke, I can't run benchmarks @ 5.5Ghz (HT & E-cores off) without winter temps. On 15C water, I instantly crash when opening a game @ 1.57V LLC5. On ~10C water I can barely pass a run of SOTTR. At 5.4Ghz 1.525V I BSOD from AIDA64 memory copy... Can't wait for a 12900KS, I'll gladly take an SP90 personally.


----------



## cptclutch

Any obvious reason CPUZ single core on my 12700k at 5.2ghz would be at 830? Seems like thats a score that people get at 5.1.


----------



## Nizzen

cptclutch said:


> Any obvious reason CPUZ single core on my 12700k at 5.2ghz would be at 830? Seems like thats a score that people get at 5.1.


Memoryspeed/performance, cache speed and maybe to many background tasks


----------



## cptclutch

Nizzen said:


> Memoryspeed/performance, cache speed and maybe to many background tasks


This is what I'm running for memory currently. Viper 4400mhz kit.


----------



## GQNerd

These are my Daily and Stable Settings, for now...

SP 88 (checked on Strix Z690-A)
P Core - 97
E Core - 69 (NICE, but meh in this scenario)

Setup:
3x 360x45mm RADs, Single XD5 pump, EKWB Velocity2 Waterblock, Kingpin 3090 Hydro Copper
MSI Unify X Board - Running at *5.3Ghz ALL CORE, 4.1 E-Core, 4.4 RING ~1.328V*
32GB 2x16GB DDR5 Kingston 6000 CL 40 (*running at 6800 28-39-39 CR1 Gear 2*)
2TB Firecuda 530 NVME

Some Results:











































*Notes:*
Any suggestions to get the RAM latency down? Want it closer to 50ns
Pcore 7 is SPICY, no matter what.. Thinking about going Direct Die in the near future

Open to any other recommendations!


----------



## Nizzen

Miguelios said:


> These are my Daily and Stable Settings, for now...
> 
> SP 88 (checked on Strix Z690-A)
> P Core - 97
> E Core - 69 (NICE, but meh in this scenario)
> 
> Setup:
> 3x 360x45mm RADs, Single XD5 pump, EKWB Velocity2 Waterblock, Kingpin 3090 Hydro Copper
> MSI Unify X Board - Running at *5.3Ghz ALL CORE, 4.1 E-Core, 4.4 RING ~1.328V*
> 32GB 2x16GB DDR5 Kingston 6000 CL 40 (*running at 6800 28-39-39 CR1 Gear 2*)
> 2TB Firecuda 530 NVME
> 
> Some Results:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Notes:*
> Any suggestions to get the RAM latency down? Want it closer to 50ns
> Pcore 7 is SPICY, no matter what.. Thinking about going Direct Die in the near future
> 
> Open to any other recommendations!


Disable e-cores, remove background tasks (disable services that is not in use), slim windows. If you aren't satisfied after doing so, buy Asus Apex, that does REAL 1t 😜


----------



## GQNerd

Nizzen said:


> Disable e-cores, remove background tasks (disable services that is not in use), slim windows. If you aren't satisfied after doing so, buy Asus Apex, that does REAL 1t 😜


Trying to keep my E cores enabled. Background tasks and windows already cleaned up.. yeah, I was wondering why I didn’t see a difference between CR1 and CR2

Not a fan of Asus BIOS’ overall.. Could only get 5.2 Allcore on Strix Z690A


----------



## geriatricpollywog




----------



## Nizzen

Miguelios said:


> Trying to keep my E cores enabled. Background tasks and windows already cleaned up.. yeah, I was wondering why I didn’t see a difference between CR1 and CR2
> 
> Not a fan of Asus BIOS’ overall.. Could only get 5.2 Allcore on Strix Z690A


Asus bioses is the best overall, so that's unlucky for you. Are you actually comparing Strix to Unify X and Apex?


----------



## GQNerd

Nizzen said:


> Asus bioses is the best overall, so that's unlucky for you. Are you actually comparing Strix to Unify X and Apex?


Not unlucky, it’s a preference.. I like MSI’s BIOS layout and options, and have had a better experience with their boards in general the last few generations.

I’m no rookie here.. Of course I’m not comparing the Strix to the Apex or Unify. I just don’t expect to achieve much better results going from the Strix to the Apex, in terms of overclocking the CPU. It probably would benefit my RAM OC though, not disputing that..

I’ve since changed my RAM settings to 7000Mhz CL30 CR2 Gear 2, so working on tightening it.

May play around with disabling E cores and increasing Ring to see how far I can push it. But that’s only for benching purposes


----------



## Groove2013

Is DDR5 6400/6600/6800 or 7000/7200 better than DDR4 4000/4133 in games?

Can't find any good comparisons.


----------



## Antsu

Groove2013 said:


> Is DDR5 6400/6600/6800 or 7000/7200 better than DDR4 4000/4133 in games?
> 
> Can't find any good comparisons.


As a very rough general rule of thumb it's pretty much tied, and you can compare the upper/lower end of DDR5 OC to upper/lower end of DDR4.


----------



## Groove2013

geriatricpollywog said:


> View attachment 2551017


What is the exact RAM kit you've bought and why are you switching to DDR5 from DDR4?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> What is the exact RAM kit you've bought and why are you switching to DDR5 from DDR4?


DDR4: G.Skill F4-4000C14D-32GTEG
Running at 4200 14-15-15-28-240

DDR5: G.Skill F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK
Running at 6800 32-40-40-28-300

I will likely return my DDR5 kit because framerate is lower in SoTR and unchanged in other games like Flight Simulator 2020 and RDR2.


----------



## Nizzen

Some games like low latency and some like high bandwidth. With good tweaked ddr5, it's possible with both 
SOTR is very random, and one background task can slow down 30fps easy is this benchmark. SOTR is much about tweaking windows too.


----------



## Groove2013

geriatricpollywog said:


> DDR4: G.Skill F4-4000C14D-32GTEG
> Running at 4200 14-15-15-28-240
> 
> DDR5: G.Skill F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK
> Running at 6800 32-40-40-28-300
> 
> I will likely return my DDR5 kit because framerate is lower in SoTR and unchanged in other games like Flight Simulator 2020 and RDR2.


Can you post nanoseconds in Aida64 with your DDR4 4200 CL14?
And maybe same, but with DDR5 6800 CL32?

Would help a lot.

Thx.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Nizzen said:


> SOTR is very random, and one background task can slow down 30fps easy is this benchmark. SOTR is much about tweaking windows too.


When did SotTR became the absolute metric regarding cpu performance? Somewhat useful, yes.. But when your OS tweaks can give you another 40fps and anyways, the benchmark seems to crap out at around 370fps give or take with Nvidia card and as far as I know both d4 and d5 are above 370.


This is [email protected] with zero os optimizations and the third motherboard on this install.. Lazy, I know..












And this is first gen d5 =)


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> Can you post nanoseconds in Aida64 with your DDR4 4200 CL14?
> And maybe same, but with DDR5 6800 CL32?
> 
> Would help a lot.
> 
> Thx.


around 51 ns on DDR5 and 43 ns on DDR4.


SuperMumrik said:


> When did SotTR became the absolute metric regarding cpu performance? Somewhat useful, yes.. But when your OS tweaks can give you another 40fps and anyways, the benchmark seems to crap out at around 370fps give or take with Nvidia card and as far as I know both d4 and d5 are above 370.
> 
> 
> This is [email protected] with zero os optimizations and the third motherboard on this install.. Lazy, I know..
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2551266
> 
> 
> And this is first gen d5 =)


SoTR might not be useful for comparing different computers with different GPUs, CPUs, and Windows optimizations.

My point is that I'm seeing 15-20fps more fps on DDR4 on the same everything. The only difference is the RAM and motherboard.


----------



## Nizzen

Antsu said:


> As a very rough general rule of thumb it's pretty much tied, and you can compare the upper/lower end of DDR5 OC to upper/lower end of DDR4.


Pleace post more game benchmarks with d4! Then we can make this forum better


----------



## SuperMumrik

geriatricpollywog said:


> My point is that I'm seeing 15-20fps more fps on DDR4 on the same everything


Fair enough, 20fps seems like a "large" discrepancy


----------



## bscool

SuperMumrik said:


> When did SotTR became the absolute metric regarding cpu performance? Somewhat useful, yes.. But when your OS tweaks can give you another 40fps and anyways, the benchmark seems to crap out at around 370fps give or take with Nvidia card and as far as I know both d4 and d5 are above 370.
> 
> 
> This is [email protected] with zero os optimizations and the third motherboard on this install.. Lazy, I know..
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2551266
> 
> 
> And this is first gen d5 =)


Benchmark Competition: Shadow of the Tomb Raider Get some ddr5 results in there. 

I went ddr5 because playing with new stuff/harware is as fun as playing a video game to me


----------



## SuperMumrik

bscool said:


> I went ddr5 because playing with new stuff/harware is as fun as playing a video game to me


I had an z690-a d4 at first, but I soon realized how boored I was from B-dies


----------



## Groove2013

geriatricpollywog said:


> around 51 ns on DDR5 and 43 ns on DDR4.


Then I have to buy Strix DDR4 mobo.

Even Sugi0lover with Hynix 7200 MHz CL30 on Apex is still at ~47 ns and that partially thanks to 5.5 GHz all cores and 5.0 GHz cache.

What I'm playing isn't restricted by DDR4 bandwidth at all, but is very sensitive to RAM responsiveness.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> Then I have to buy Strix DDR4 mobo.
> 
> Even Sugi0lover with Hynix 7200 MHz CL30 on Apex is still at ~47 ns and that partially thanks to 5.5 GHz all cores and 5.0 GHz cache.
> 
> What I'm playing isn't restricted by DDR4 bandwidth at all, but is very sensitive to RAM responsiveness.


I can't match the 47ns @sugi0lover is getting with DDR5. He possibly has better components and better RAM OC knowledge and patience.

You have an 11900k, right? If I recall correctly, you have the G.Skill 3800cl14 kit, which is one of the best B-die kits. I still have my 11900K, but I purchased a 12900K in December. I am still using my Gskill F4-4000C14D-32GTEG kit, which I used with my 11900K.

Framerates are higher on the 12900K than 11900K whether you have DDR4 or DDR5. Aida latency is not everything. You can achieve higher framerates with higher latency if your bandwidth his high enough. The 10900K can achieve low 30ns latency but can't match the 12900K in fps.


----------



## Groove2013

@


geriatricpollywog said:


> I can't match the 47ns @sugi0lover is getting with DDR5. He possibly has better components and better RAM OC knowledge and patience.
> 
> You have an 11900k, right? If I recall correctly, you have the G.Skill 3800cl14 kit, which is one of the best B-die kits. I still have my 11900K, but I purchased a 12900K in December. I am still using my Gskill F4-4000C14D-32GTEG kit, which I used with my 11900K.
> 
> Framerates are higher on the 12900K than 11900K whether you have DDR4 or DDR5. Aida latency is not everything. You can achieve higher framerates with higher latency if your bandwidth his high enough. The 10900K can achieve low 30ns latency but can't match the 12900K in fps.


Yes, 11900K and 3800 14.
But ****ty 11900K (SP45). Only its IMC is good in doing 4000 CL14 gear 1.

Sure, because 12900K perf is higher than that of 10900K.

But if using same 12900K, only changing between DDR4 and DDR5 and DDR4 gives much much lower latency, then it's DDR4, for me.

Please, post your DDR4 timings for 4200 14 on 12900K.


----------



## bscool

Groove2013 said:


> @
> Yes, 11900K and 3800 14.
> But ****ty 11900K (SP45). Only its IMC is good in doing 4000 CL14 gear 1.
> 
> Sure, because 12900K perf is higher than that of 10900K.
> 
> But if using same 12900K, only changing between DDR4 and DDR5 and DDR4 gives much much lower latency, then it's DDR4, for me.
> 
> Please, post your DDR4 timings for 4200 14 on 12900K.


Unless you hit IMC and ram lotto 4133c15 is more realistic and even that is doing good with DR b die on z690- ddr4. Some only can do 4000c15 or less.

I am talking Karhu and y cruncher, all around game stable not just benches.

12th gen is more tricky to get stable than past gens. As in it might pass every "stability test" and crash in games.


----------



## Groove2013

I always use Karhu 10000%.


----------



## bscool

Groove2013 said:


> I always use Karhu 10000%.


I am telling you that wont matter on 12th gen. You will find out.

I suppose it depends on the system but I have seen it and many other have posted the same about passing various stablity/stress tests and then crashes in games.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

bigfootnz said:


> With DDR5 you cannot use other poeple profiles like with DDR4. As with DDR5 not only timings are important but also combination of all voltages (Vdd, Vddq, SA, MC). In my opinion voltage combination is maybe even more important than timings. Every MB, RAM and CPU is different and unique. OC DDR5 is much harder then DDR4 but on other hand it is more rewarding when you managed to achive stable OC. I also think that you should not give up on DDR5, just give it another shot.


Ugh, you're probably right but DDR5 is so much work.



Groove2013 said:


> @
> Yes, 11900K and 3800 14.
> But ****ty 11900K (SP45). Only its IMC is good in doing 4000 CL14 gear 1.
> 
> Sure, because 12900K perf is higher than that of 10900K.
> 
> But if using same 12900K, only changing between DDR4 and DDR5 and DDR4 gives much much lower latency, then it's DDR4, for me.
> 
> Please, post your DDR4 timings for 4200 14 on 12900K.


My Strix D4 is in a box but I found an old screenshot of my timings from bios 0003. This was before bios 0901 was released which enabled me to boot 4300cl14 and stabilize 4200cl14. The timings should be the same.


----------



## sugi0lover

deleted because bclk oc only with aida64 result can be misleading.


----------



## bigfootnz

geriatricpollywog said:


> Ugh, you're probably right but DDR5 is so much work.


Yes, you are right it is much work. First I had Strix D4, as it was not possible to get DDR5. OC DDR4 was easy, only my ram 4266c16 wasn’t great OC as I could do only 4100 15-16-16. Then when I got DDR5, but have in mind I’ve Hero, I spent like 2 weeks OC memory until I finally figured out how to do it. I’ve found also, at least in my case, that I was able to pass TM5 and MemPro much more easier then Karhu. You can use as quick and dirty test BenchmarkMate Y-cruncher and if that pass 2-3 rounds then you should do any proper mem tests.
I’ve done tests with DDR4 4100c15 vs DDR5 6400c30 and what I’ve that with DDR5 min fps are much more higher and gaming is like smother, but again this is just my experience.


----------



## Groove2013

With E-cores off, is 12900K more power-hungry than 11900K, in synthetics?


----------



## xV Slayer

Nizzen said:


> Disable e-cores, remove background tasks (disable services that is not in use), slim windows. If you aren't satisfied after doing so, buy Asus Apex, that does REAL 1t 😜


Real 1T huh?


----------



## Nizzen

xV Slayer said:


> Real 1T huh?


Yes, did you look at the bad performance he had with 68001t with Unify-x?


----------



## Arni90

Groove2013 said:


> With E-cores off, is 12900K more power-hungry than 11900K, in synthetics?


Not even close. The 11900K could easily push 300W, while the 12900K will hit cooling limits before 250W on 8 cores.


----------



## LionAlonso

Arni90 said:


> Not even close. The 11900K could easily push 300W, while the 12900K will hit cooling limits before 250W on 8 cores.


U mean at same cooling capacities right?


----------



## GQNerd

Nizzen said:


> Yes, did you look at the bad performance he had with 68001t with Unify-x?


Are you talking about my "bad performance" with 6800 1t? lol... - please elaborate.


After swapping between 1t and 2t, I've come to the conclusion it's almost irrelevant at such high clocks.

I would hardly call my results "bad", especially with stock heatsinks


----------



## Arni90

LionAlonso said:


> U mean at same cooling capacities right?


Yes, same MO-RA3, similar water temperature.

I could easily cool a 300W power draw on my 11900K, stability started to fail around 85C core temperature at 320W.

My 12900K starts to hit cooling limits around 300W with E-cores enabled, 225W with E-cores disabled. That's with core temperatures hitting 100C.


----------



## Groove2013

Arni90 said:


> Yes, same MO-RA3, similar water temperature.
> 
> I could easily cool a 300W power draw on my 11900K, stability started to fail around 85C core temperature at 320W.
> 
> My 12900K starts to hit cooling limits around 300W with E-cores enabled, 225W with E-cores disabled. That's with core temperatures hitting 100C.


Most probably because more performance than 11900K and that on smaller DIE size than 11900K.


----------



## Nizzen

Miguelios said:


> Are you talking about my "bad performance" with 6800 1t? lol... - please elaborate.
> 
> 
> After swapping between 1t and 2t, I've come to the conclusion it's almost irrelevant at such high clocks.
> 
> I would hardly call my results "bad", especially with stock heatsinks


sugi0lover result with 6850mhz 2t:


https://www.overclock.net/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.overclock.net/attachments/f204dfdc1cb75caa08e752f32804314bf3153aae-png.2546982/



Sugi0lover 66001t result:





Google Photos







photos.google.com


----------



## GQNerd

Nizzen said:


> sugi0lover result with 6850mhz 2t:
> 
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.overclock.net/attachments/f204dfdc1cb75caa08e752f32804314bf3153aae-png.2546982/


Cool, so all I need to do is bin 50+ chips till I find a God-bin CPU, disable E cores, crank Ring, and apply BCLK OC to skew the scores... /s

Sugi gets amazing results no doubt.. but don’t call my performance bad. Show me someone who’s performance is better than mine with E cores enabled and similar frequency/timings, with stock heatsinks.

Thanks


----------



## Arni90

Nizzen said:


> sugi0lover result with 6850mhz 2t:
> 
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.overclock.net/attachments/f204dfdc1cb75caa08e752f32804314bf3153aae-png.2546982/
> 
> 
> 
> Sugi0lover 66001t result:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Google Photos
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> photos.google.com


Such poor latency, where's the sub-30 ns and 170+ GB/s


----------



## Groove2013

@Arni90 are you on 11900K or 12900K now?
Delidded? Direct DIE? Liquid metal?

Thx


----------



## Groove2013

@geriatricpollywog the 12900K you have currently, is it your first/only 12900K? SP?


----------



## Nizzen

Arni90 said:


> Such poor latency, where's the sub-30 ns and 170+ GB/s
> View attachment 2551298


Where is bclk 100mhz and memtestpro coverspeed?


----------



## Arni90

Groove2013 said:


> @Arni90 are you on 11900K or 12900K now?
> Delidded? Direct DIE? Liquid metal?
> 
> Thx


I've been on 12900K since december.
Just got a direct die kit, there's quite a significant difference when it comes to temperature.

Obviously same settings in BIOS and for memory:


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> @Arni90 are you on 11900K or 12900K now?
> Delidded? Direct DIE? Liquid metal?
> 
> Thx





Groove2013 said:


> @geriatricpollywog the 12900K you have currently, is it your first/only 12900K? SP?


It’s my 2nd 12900K. SP 89 (98/71) and MSI Force rating is 124/125. It’s above average.

My first 12900K was SP 84 which is average.


----------



## Groove2013

Arni90 said:


> Just got a direct die kit, there's quite a significant difference when it comes to temperature.


How is it called and where to get it?

Thx


----------



## bscool

Miguelios said:


> Cool, so all I need to do is bin 50+ chips till I find a God-bin CPU, disable E cores, crank Ring, and apply BCLK OC to skew the scores... /s
> 
> Sugi gets amazing results no doubt.. but don’t call my performance bad. Show me someone who’s performance is better than mine with E cores enabled and similar frequency/timings, with stock heatsinks.
> 
> Thanks


Yes and base your buying and expected OC decisions on the top oc you see online. Sure way to set yourself up for disappoointement 

Like basing your memory OC off results @safedisk posts who has accesss to the best bins or cpu and memory. And if you cant reach those OC it is because you are a "noob". 😁


----------



## Arni90

Groove2013 said:


> How is it called and where to get it?
> 
> Thx


I purchased it on Facebook: Supercool computer

You have to send a message to them, and they will reply the next workday with an estimate for when they can send a quotation. They will then send the quotation on eBay, you pay and then message back that you've paid. Which will then cause them to send whatever you've ordered.

Super sketchy, but they did deliver. I got a delid tool and direct die cooling kit, price was slightly north of 6000 THB


----------



## matique

Daily tune done! 
5.3p/4.2e/4.2r 1.24v LLC mode 5
6800c30 1.52v


----------



## Nizzen

Arni90 said:


> I purchased it on Facebook: Supercool computer
> 
> You have to send a message to them, and they will reply the next workday with an estimate for when they can send a quotation. They will then send the quotation on eBay, you pay and then message back that you've paid. Which will then cause them to send whatever you've ordered.
> 
> Super sketchy, but they did deliver. I got a delid tool and direct die cooling kit, price was slightly north of 6000 THB


Me, carillo and Mumriken bought from them about 6 times. Delivered within a few days with DHL express every time.


----------



## Gargas

Nizzen said:


> Me, carillo and Mumriken bought from them about 6 times. Delivered within a few days with DHL express every time.


I bought it as well, delivery took quite long for me, the reason given was production delays. 
Ordered 6th Jan with express shipping, product arrived 4th Feb.
reply to communication was slow about a week to reply to email each time after the initial order/payment.

They are legit and delid was uneventfully easy with the tool.

I had to 3dprint a shim to fit the outer holder-frame (black part) on the direct die water block due to the stupid placement of high capacitors all around the socket on the asus strix f boards. Running without the frame also seems to work fine though.


----------



## Arni90

Gargas said:


> I bought it as well, delivery took quite long for me, the reason given was production delays.
> Ordered 6th Jan with express shipping, product arrived 4th Feb.
> reply to communication was slow about a week to reply to email each time after the initial order/payment.
> 
> They are legit and delid was uneventfully easy with the tool.
> 
> I had to 3dprint a shim to fit the outer holder-frame (black part) on the direct die water block due to the stupid placement of high capacitors all around the socket on the asus strix f boards. Running without the frame also seems to work fine though.


The frame is just for looks.


----------



## Arni90

Nizzen said:


> Where is bclk 100mhz and memtestpro coverspeed?


Here you go 
Base frequency on P/E-cores and ring


----------



## Nizzen

Arni90 said:


> Here you go
> Base frequency on P/E-cores and ring


Nice job


----------



## Lord Alzov

Miguelios said:


> Cool, so all I need to do is bin 50+ chips till I find a God-bin CPU, disable E cores, crank Ring, and apply BCLK OC to skew the scores... /s
> 
> Sugi gets amazing results no doubt.. but don’t call my performance bad. Show me someone who’s performance is better than mine with E cores enabled and similar frequency/timings, with stock heatsinks.
> 
> Thanks


You performance very bad. Its FAKE t1 i think its real t2.
I outperform you ez.








TM5 stable.








6600t1 with 79 SP 12900kf.


----------



## bscool

Apex real 1t? Can anyone with Apex post same timings and frequency using 1t vs 2t and show the gains/difference?

I compared 1t vs 2t on Apex and saw very little difference in performance.

The way it is talked about "real 1t" I take there is some massive difference in performance.


----------



## Lord Alzov

bscool said:


> Apex real 1t? Can anyone with Apex post same timings and frequency using 1t vs 2t and show the gains/difference?
> 
> I compared 1t vs 2t on Apex and saw very little difference in performance.
> 
> The way it is talked about "real 1t" I take there is some massive difference in performance.


apex real t1


----------



## bscool

Lord Alzov said:


> apex real t1


I have Apex and see very little difference in 1t vs 2t using same timings and frequency.

What are you using to test to see the difference? 

So I can test and post results to the difference for people to see since I havent seen anyone else do it.


----------



## Falkentyne

bscool said:


> I have Apex and see very little difference in 1t vs 2t using same timings and frequency.
> 
> What are you using to test to see the difference? So I can test and post results to the difference for people to see since I havent seen anyone else do it.


This has been discussed to death already.
This isn't DDR4 where 1T matters on AIDA. This is DDR5.
1T shows huge boosts in gaming scores and in TM5 and another memory benchmark (I forgot which, Karhu or that other one) % completion rate. These gains don't show up under AIDA, which is why AIDA is almost useless now.

I know nothing about Intel MLC.


----------



## bscool

Falkentyne said:


> This has been discussed to death already.
> This isn't DDR4 where 1T matters on AIDA. This is DDR5.
> 1T shows huge boosts in gaming scores and in TM5 and another memory benchmark (I forgot which, Karhu or that other one) % completion rate. These gains don't show up under AIDA, which is why AIDA is almost useless now.
> 
> I know nothing about Intel MLC.


I have tested other than Aida64 and that is what I am saying I saw very little difference.


----------



## bscool

I mean if people have tested why not post gaming bench results of 1t vs 2t? Why is it not posted?


----------



## Lord Alzov

bscool said:


> I mean if people have tested why not post gaming bench results of 1t vs 2t? Why is it not posted?


On game LARA CROFT 6400 t1 cl28 LIKE 6800t2 cl28 or faster. On becnh tm5 6400t1 28 faster then 6933cl30 t2


----------



## bscool

Lord Alzov said:


> On game LARA CROFT 6400 t1 cl28 LIKE 6800t2 cl28 or faster. On becnh tm5 6400t1 28 faster then 6933cl30 t2











Benchmark Competition: Shadow of the Tomb Raider


I did put it in the table. Did I miss it? Perfect ;), I replied before you surely. Have you seen any high clocked gen10 results from the newest game versions without the denuvo drm crap ? If so please link them.. I know the fastest 10900k systems could hit around 270-285 cpu fps in game...




www.overclock.net





They need some more ddr5 results. It would be useful to see 1t and 2t results.


----------



## Lord Alzov

bscool said:


> Benchmark Competition: Shadow of the Tomb Raider
> 
> 
> I did put it in the table. Did I miss it? Perfect ;), I replied before you surely. Have you seen any high clocked gen10 results from the newest game versions without the denuvo drm crap ? If so please link them.. I know the fastest 10900k systems could hit around 270-285 cpu fps in game...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They need some more ddr5 results. It would be useful to see 1t and 2t results.


I have 373 fps on 6400t1


----------



## SuperMumrik

bscool said:


> Benchmark Competition: Shadow of the Tomb Raider
> 
> 
> I did put it in the table. Did I miss it? Perfect ;), I replied before you surely. Have you seen any high clocked gen10 results from the newest game versions without the denuvo drm crap ? If so please link them.. I know the fastest 10900k systems could hit around 270-285 cpu fps in game...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They need some more ddr5 results. It would be useful to see 1t and 2t results.


From my own testing (Farcry, division, R6) 7000c30 at least is faster than 6400c28 1t. I haven't tested any other frequencies so I don't know where they are "equal"


----------



## Lord Alzov

SuperMumrik said:


> From my own testing (Farcry, division, R6) 7000c30 at least is faster than 6400c28 1t. I haven't tested any other frequencies so I don't know where they are "equal"


I now use 6600cl30 t1 its faster


----------



## SuperMumrik

Lord Alzov said:


> I now use 6600cl30 t1 its faster


Yeah, I believe that, but for 6600 1t you need a godlike imc.


----------



## CptSpig

bscool said:


> Benchmark Competition: Shadow of the Tomb Raider
> 
> 
> I did put it in the table. Did I miss it? Perfect ;), I replied before you surely. Have you seen any high clocked gen10 results from the newest game versions without the denuvo drm crap ? If so please link them.. I know the fastest 10900k systems could hit around 270-285 cpu fps in game...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They need some more ddr5 results. It would be useful to see 1t and 2t results.


You asked for it and here it is 6600 1T vs 2T.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

CptSpig said:


> You asked for it and here it is 6600 1T vs 2T.
> 
> View attachment 2551490
> View attachment 2551491


No, is wrong. You must try on game LARA CROFT.


----------



## Lord Alzov

SuperMumrik said:


> Yeah, I believe that, but for 6600 1t you need a godlike imc.


No godlike. SP79 CPU complete 6600t1
Now me on sp93 cpu with lowest SA MC


----------



## bscool

I dont see many running 1t on Apex. So high clocks and 2t must make up for difference.

I would try 1t on this new Apex but it wont run 1t. Old MB does 6400 1t stable.

A friend also has new and old Apex and same thing new is not stable with 1t for him while old MB is 1t stable upto 6400.


----------



## bscool

.


----------



## CptSpig

geriatricpollywog said:


> No, is wrong. You must try on game LARA CROFT.


Tested on FarCry 6 no real difference in performance.


----------



## GQNerd

Lord Alzov said:


> You performance very bad. Its FAKE t1 i think its real t2.
> I outperform you ez.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TM5 stable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6600t1 with 79 SP 12900kf.


First, nice job!

Second, I’ve tried 2T, fake 1T, and Real 1T (it’s literally labeled that in the MSI BIOS)
Not much difference..

Third, you’re obviously running a chiller or benching outside during a blizzard.. I bet your RAM has a block on it as well….. AND you’re running a BCLK OC, you forgot to hide it on Hwinfo.


Good for you.. but I still disagree with you Asus Fanboy’s calling my results bad. I’m not on their payroll, yet.. lol jk.

But seriously, I’m not biased.. I tried Asus and MSI D4 boards first, then moved up to D5 with the Strix before settling on the Unify X. I didn’t get the Apex because it wasn’t available at the time.. I see now, apparently it’s the board to have for best RAM OC results, cool.

Still not a big enough improvement to tear my Rig down and rebuild with the Apex.. Just can’t stand ppl spewing BS about bad performance considering some newer folks may see those stupid comments and assume their stuff is garbage cause they’re not sub 50ns or something.. wtv


----------



## Lord Alzov

Miguelios said:


> First, nice job!
> 
> Second, I’ve tried 2T, fake 1T, and Real 1T (it’s literally labeled that in the MSI BIOS)
> Not much difference..
> 
> Third, you’re obviously running a chiller or benching outside during a blizzard.. I bet your RAM has a block on it as well….. AND you’re running a BCLK OC, you forgot to hide it on Hwinfo.
> 
> 
> Good for you.. but I still disagree with you Asus Fanboy’s calling my results bad. I’m not on their payroll, yet.. lol jk.
> 
> But seriously, I’m not biased.. I tried Asus and MSI D4 boards first, then moved up to D5 with the Strix before settling on the Unify X. I didn’t get the Apex because it wasn’t available at the time.. I see now, apparently it’s the board to have for best RAM OC results, cool.
> 
> Still not a big enough improvement to tear my Rig down and rebuild with the Apex.. Just can’t stand ppl spewing BS about bad performance considering some newer folks may see those stupid comments and assume their stuff is garbage cause they’re not sub 50ns or something.. wtv



I do not use a chiller, the usual temperature at my house is +28 Celsius (+82.4F). I don't use BCLK overclocking. My screenshot shows the frequency of BCLK 100MHz. My result is not unique, there are 4+ people with +- results in my discord channel, maybe a little worse. Yes, everything above 50ns is not very good overclocking.


----------



## nickolp1974

Anyone had a sniff of a KS chip yet?? thought they would be here by now


----------



## matique

Who gives a **** about 1T when 2T with higher clocks can compensate for it. I stopped venturing into 1T after stabilising 6800/7000 c30 2T.


----------



## Lord Alzov

matique said:


> Who gives a **** about 1T when 2T with higher clocks can compensate for it. I stopped venturing into 1T after stabilising 6800/7000 c30 2T.


6600T1 faster then all t2 7000


----------



## SoldierRBT

Lord Alzov said:


> You performance very bad. Its FAKE t1 i think its real t2.
> I outperform you ez.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TM5 stable.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6600t1 with 79 SP 12900kf.


What voltages you use for 6600 1T? Sticks on water? Thanks


----------



## Lord Alzov

SoldierRBT said:


> What voltages you use for 6600 1T? Sticks on water? Thanks


1.55 water


----------



## xV Slayer

Lord Alzov said:


> 6600T1 faster then all t2 7000


This guy over here acting like his settings are something everyone should be using when he is water cooling his ram to reach those timings. People like you make me laugh man.


----------



## Lord Alzov

5400 stable 24/7 MO-RA watercool+360mm radiator.
LINX STABLE.


----------



## Lord Alzov

xV Slayer said:


> This guy over here acting like his settings are something everyone should be using when he is water cooling his ram to reach those timings. People like you make me laugh man.


I laugh at people who are surprised by the water cooling system on the overclocking site.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

xV Slayer said:


> This guy over here acting like his settings are something everyone should be using when he is water cooling his ram to reach those timings. People like you make me laugh man.


Regimented doping.


----------



## xV Slayer

Lord Alzov said:


> I laugh at people who are surprised by the water cooling system on the overclocking site.


Water cooling on an overclocking website is not a surprise. Water cooling your ram sticks is.


----------



## Nizzen

xV Slayer said:


> Water cooling on an overclocking website is not a surprise. Water cooling your ram sticks is.


Watercooling dimms is the new meta.


----------



## Lord Alzov

geriatricpollywog said:


> Regimented doping.


U ask me about top100 3dmark
3DMark Fire Strike Hall of Fame
top1 3080ti
top 63


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Lord Alzov said:


> U ask me about top100 3dmark
> 3DMark Fire Strike Hall of Fame
> top1 3080ti
> top 63


That’s pretty good. I’m #30 on the HOF with DDR4 and I’m struggling to beat my DDR4 score using DDR5.


----------



## Nizzen

geriatricpollywog said:


> That’s pretty good. I’m #30 on the HOF with DDR4 and I’m struggling to beat my DDR4 score using DDR5.


Show us your Aida64 numbers with DDR5, and we tell you why  ?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Nizzen said:


> Show us your Aida64 numbers with DDR5, and we tell you why  ?


----------



## Groove2013

geriatricpollywog said:


> View attachment 2551847


Why not Unify X?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> Why not Unify X?


The Z690i Unify is what was on the shelf at my neighborhood Microcenter.

Plus, its $100 cheaper than the Unify-X ($400 instead of $500) and has the same or better memory topology (2-DIMM, 12-layer PCB).


----------



## geriatricpollywog

After comparing DDR4 to DDR5 in Firestrike and Time Spy, I found the results to be very similar. DDR4 had a slight edge in GT1/GT2 in both tests owing to somewhat colder temperatures. DDR5 had the advantage in the Firestrike CPU test while DDR5 had the advantage in the Time Spy CPU test.

A major drawback to DDR5 was stability. Although 7200cl30 was benchable, it was not TM5 stable. The highest speed I could stabilize at normal temperatures was 6800cl32. DDR4 was always stable. If I could bench it, it would pass TM5 and HCI memtest. I also observed that I could not bench the CPU past 5.5 ghz at any voltage on DDR5, while it would happily bench up to 5734mhz with DDR4. Since I was using an Asus DDR4 board and an MSI DDR5 board, it could have been the motherboard.

All parts are retail. No free samples:
DDR4 Kit: F4-4000C14D-32GTEG - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd. (gskill.com)
DDR4 Motherboard: ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4 | ROG Strix | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global (asus.com)

DDR5 Kit: F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd. (gskill.com)
DDR5 Motherboard: MSI MEG Z690I UNIFY Gaming Motherboard ITX - Intel 12th Gen - 10+1+1 Phase, DDR5, PCIe 5.0

Best DDR4 Firestrike: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-12900K Processor,ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4 (3dmark.com)
Best DDR5 Firestrike: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-12900K Processor,Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MEG Z690I UNIFY (MS-7D29) (3dmark.com)

Best DDR4 Time Spy:








I scored 23 536 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com





Best DDR5 Time Spy








I scored 23 589 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com





DDR4 Timings:









DDR5 Timings:









Firestrike DDR4:









Firestrike DDR5:









Time Spy DDR4:










Time Spy DDR5:


----------



## xV Slayer

geriatricpollywog said:


> After comparing DDR4 to DDR5 in Firestrike and Time Spy, I found the results to be very similar. DDR4 had a slight edge in GT1/GT2 in both tests owing to somewhat colder temperatures. DDR5 had the advantage in the Firestrike CPU test while DDR5 had the advantage in the Time Spy CPU test.
> 
> A major drawback to DDR5 was stability. Although 7200cl30 was benchable, it was not TM5 stable. The highest speed I could stabilize at normal temperatures was 6800cl32. DDR4 was always stable. If I could bench it, it would pass TM5 and HCI memtest.
> 
> I also observed that I could not bench the CPU past 5.5 ghz at any voltage on DDR5, while it would happily bench up to 5734mhz with DDR4. Since I was using an Asus DDR4 board and an MSI DDR5 board, it could have been the motherboard.
> 
> DDR4 Kit: F4-4000C14D-32GTEG - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd. (gskill.com)
> DDR4 Motherboard: ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4 | ROG Strix | Gaming Motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global (asus.com)
> 
> DDR5 Kit: F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RK F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd. (gskill.com)
> DDR5 Motherboard: MSI MEG Z690I UNIFY Gaming Motherboard ITX - Intel 12th Gen - 10+1+1 Phase, DDR5, PCIe 5.0
> 
> Best DDR4 Firestrike: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-12900K Processor,ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. ROG STRIX Z690-A GAMING WIFI D4 (3dmark.com)
> Best DDR5 Firestrike: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 video card benchmark result - Intel Core i9-12900K Processor,Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MEG Z690I UNIFY (MS-7D29) (3dmark.com)
> 
> DDR4 Timings:
> View attachment 2551865
> 
> 
> DDR5 Timings:
> View attachment 2551867
> 
> 
> Firestrike DDR4:
> View attachment 2551869
> 
> 
> Firestrike DDR5:
> View attachment 2551868
> 
> 
> Time Spy DDR4:
> View attachment 2551871
> 
> 
> 
> Time Spy DDR5:
> View attachment 2551870


Is that stupid tab removable on the ROG STRIX Z690-A D4?


----------



## Nizzen

Groove2013 said:


> Why not Unify X?


Because no dimm.2 

So why buy Unify X in your opinion? 
I have msi z490itx, that is a monster for it's size with 10900k


----------



## Groove2013

geriatricpollywog said:


> I could not bench the CPU past 5.5 ghz at any voltage on DDR5, while it would happily bench up to 5734mhz with DDR4.
> Since I was using an Asus DDR4 board and an MSI DDR5 board, it could have been the motherboard.


Maybe DDR5 controller is not as good as the DDR4 controller on your CPU and/or maybe DDR5 controller heats your CPU more than DDR4 controller, due to much higher DDR5 frequency.

Since you can see only CPU temp and not IMC temp, difficult to say. But I would assume that with DDR5, the CPU (IMC) runs hotter than with DDR4 and might be the reason why you can't do more than 5.5 GHz with DDR5.

Also DDR4 is better in FireStrike, but it's DX11 only (iirc), so not so well multi-threaded, while DDR5 is better in TimeSpy, since it's much better multi-threaded, thanks to DX12 and DX12 and better multi-threaded games are the feature, actually already happening now, since some time, for some well known games.

So what I would have done, for the moment, I would get rid of DDR5 6400 and its mobo and stay on DDR4 + its mobo, until 13th gen, where DDR5 modules will be even faster, IMC will be improved, mobos top DDR5 frequency will be improved and 13th gen will have even more cache and more games will be released that are more open world, populated densely with highly detailed 3D objects and high resolution textures, that will clearly take adavantage of DDR5.


----------



## 七海nana7mi

Groove2013 said:


> Maybe DDR5 controller is not as good as the DDR4 controller on your CPU and/or maybe DDR5 controller heats your CPU more than DDR4 controller, due to much higher DDR5 frequency.
> 
> Since you can see only CPU temp and not IMC temp, difficult to say. But I would assume that with DDR5, the CPU (IMC) runs hotter than with DDR4 and might be the reason why you can't do more than 5.5 GHz with DDR5.
> 
> Also DDR4 is better in FireStrike, but it's DX11 only (iirc), so not so well multi-threaded, while DDR5 is better in TimeSpy, since it's much better multi-threaded, thanks to DX12 and DX12 and better multi-threaded games are the feature, actually already happening now, since some time, for some well known games.
> 
> So what I would have done, for the moment, I would get rid of DDR5 6400 and its mobo and stay on DDR4 + its mobo, until 13th gen, where DDR5 modules will be even faster, IMC will be improved, mobos top DDR5 frequency will be improved and 13th gen will have even more cache and more games will be released that are more open world, populated densely with highly detailed 3D objects and high resolution textures, that will clearly take adavantage of DDR5.


in aida64 can look uncore correlation， and power


----------



## geriatricpollywog

xV Slayer said:


> Is that stupid tab removable on the ROG STRIX Z690-A D4?


Yes, its just velcro. I think Asus came up with it to sell aftermarket tabs. They already have an anime girl tab you can buy separately.


Groove2013 said:


> Maybe DDR5 controller is not as good as the DDR4 controller on your CPU and/or maybe DDR5 controller heats your CPU more than DDR4 controller, due to much higher DDR5 frequency.
> 
> Since you can see only CPU temp and not IMC temp, difficult to say. But I would assume that with DDR5, the CPU (IMC) runs hotter than with DDR4 and might be the reason why you can't do more than 5.5 GHz with DDR5.
> 
> Also DDR4 is better in FireStrike, but it's DX11 only (iirc), so not so well multi-threaded, while DDR5 is better in TimeSpy, since it's much better multi-threaded, thanks to DX12 and DX12 and better multi-threaded games are the feature, actually already happening now, since some time, for some well known games.
> 
> So what I would have done, for the moment, I would get rid of DDR5 6400 and its mobo and stay on DDR4 + its mobo, until 13th gen, where DDR5 modules will be even faster, IMC will be improved, mobos top DDR5 frequency will be improved and 13th gen will have even more cache and more games will be released that are more open world, populated densely with highly detailed 3D objects and high resolution textures, that will clearly take adavantage of DDR5.


No, I mean my ambient temps were lower on the DDR4 benchmarks. Not enough to warrant a 200mhz core speed discrepancy. I already suspected high gear 2 ram clocks limited CPU core speed.

I plan to return the DDR5 board and RAM. This is actually the 2nd G.Skill 6400cl32 kit I've tried and it has worse voltage tolerance than the 1st kit. Both kits did 7000cl30 at normal temps on the Z690i Unify. If you are going to buy DDR5, I think Dell green sticks (Hynix) are the way to go. I think all Hynix can do 7000cl30 from what I've seen others achieve.


Lord Alzov said:


> Try T1 6600+


1T doesn't boot down to 6200.


----------



## Groove2013

I guess I'll keep my 11900K until 13th if not 14th gen.
Because when playing games, at real settings and resolution, 12900K isn't worth the $$$ + new mobo + new delid tool + direct DIE Supercool Computer kit for marginally better FPS.
It's more than 1000€ for marginally higher FPS and then I have my 11900K and Apex Z590 simply lying around and Apex Z590 is better than Strix Z690.

Apex Z690 + current DDR5 is even worse value for $$$ than Strix DDR4 in combo with already owned DDR4.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> I guess I'll keep my 11900K until 13th if not 14th gen.
> Because when playing games, at real settings and resolution, 12900K isn't worth the $$$ + new mobo + new delid tool + direct DIE Supercool Computer kit for marginally better FPS.
> It's more than 1000€ for marginally higher FPS and then I have my 11900K and Apex Z590 simply laying around and Apex Z590 is better than Strix Z690.
> 
> Apex Z690 + current DDR5 is even worse value for $$$ than Strix DDR4 in combo with already owned DDR4.


Neither my 11900K nor my 12900K are delidded.

The 12900K is a massive generational improvement over the 11900K, but we're talking about 372 fps vs 312 fps in SoTR. If you are gaming at 300fps or lower, there is no point in upgrading from an 11900K.

Is a Z590 Apex better than a Z690 Strix? Spec-wise, yes. Performance-wise, absolutely not. The Z690 Strix can socket a 12900K and has a strong enough power delivery to hammer a 12900K with no VRM heatsink. The 4-dimm Z690 Strix can also run a DDR4 kit 300 mhz faster than any Z590 Apex at the same timings.


----------



## Nizzen

Groove2013 said:


> I guess I'll keep my 11900K until 13th if not 14th gen.
> Because when playing games, at real settings and resolution, 12900K isn't worth the $$$ + new mobo + new delid tool + direct DIE Supercool Computer kit for marginally better FPS.
> It's more than 1000€ for marginally higher FPS and then I have my 11900K and Apex Z590 simply lying around and Apex Z590 is better than Strix Z690.
> 
> Apex Z690 + current DDR5 is even worse value for $$$ than Strix DDR4 in combo with already owned DDR4.


Worth the $$$?
Nothing computer related is worth the $$$ if I ask my wife 🤣

Testing new hardware is my hobby, so I don't care about worth. New season, and old hardware goes down to the family members. So maybe my kids have overkill hardware for Fortnite and Genshin Impact 😅


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## Groove2013

@geriatricpollywog what is the waterblock and paste you're using?
1 or 2 D5 pumps?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> @geriatricpollywog what is the waterblock and paste you're using?
> 1 or 2 D5 pumps?


I use an old EK Supremacy EVO CPU block. I tested it against my Optimus Signature V2 and temps were identical.

4 x D5 pumps. Two are on my MO-RA and two are inside the case.

Paste is Kingpin Cooling KPx.


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## Groove2013

geriatricpollywog said:


> I use an old EK Supremacy EVO CPU block. I tested it against my Optimus Signature V2 and temps were identical.
> 
> 4 x D5 pumps. Two are on my MO-RA and two are inside the case.
> 
> Paste is Kingpin Cooling KPx.


So you're basically compensating for the CPU not being delidded by the fact of having 4 D5 pumps and a lot of surface area.

What is the highest temp (no windows open) in something like Prime95 you could observe with your current build and vcore?


----------



## Groove2013

Because, in first place, I would rather prefer to improve heat transfer from the DIE to the loop, instead of simply putting more pumps and increasing surface area.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> So you're basically compensating for the CPU not being delidded by the fact of having 4 D5 pumps and a lot of surface area.


No, I realize you can't compensate for poor heat transfer from the die to the water by increasing radiator capacity. The reason I don't delid is because I don't need the extra core overclock. The reason I have 4 D5 pumps is to reach 1 gallon/min flow rate with my very restrictive setup. The reason I have a lot of surface area is to silently cool a 3090 running at 500+ watts.


Groove2013 said:


> What is the highest temp (no windows open) in something like Prime95 you could observe with your current build and vcore?


My core max on Z690i Unify is 77C in a single pass of Cinebench R23 at 5.2ghz, auto llc, and core voltage set to 1.23 in bios. Room temperature is 22C. You can't compare this to your 11900K. The 12900K has a smaller die and runs hotter.



Groove2013 said:


> Because, in first place, I would rather prefer to improve heat transfer from the DIE to the loop, instead of simply putting more pumps and increasing surface area.


Yes, if you need the extra core mhz and are ok with the risk of delidding your CPU.


----------



## Super suave

Here is my Apex with a warped pcb, and spread pattern. Going to try the spacer mod next.


----------



## Falkentyne

geriatricpollywog said:


> Neither my 11900K nor my 12900K are delidded.
> 
> The 12900K is a massive generational improvement over the 11900K, but we're talking about 372 fps vs 312 fps in SoTR. If you are gaming at 300fps or lower, there is no point in upgrading from an 11900K.
> 
> Is a Z590 Apex better than a Z690 Strix? Spec-wise, yes. Performance-wise, absolutely not. The Z690 Strix can socket a 12900K and has a strong enough power delivery to hammer a 12900K with no VRM heatsink. The 4-dimm Z690 Strix can also run a DDR4 kit 300 mhz faster than any Z590 Apex at the same timings.


I think you have that backwards.
If you're gaming at ABOVE 300 FPS, there's no point in upgrading from a 11900k to a 12900k.
You can't begin to tell me that you're going to enjoy a game more at 372 FPS than at 312 FPS. That's just your brain playing "big penis" tricks on you. Large numbers look good.
The only way you're going to be able to really see some benefit to that is using a 360hz monitor with Blur Reduction enabled and trying to maintain 360 FPS. And how many people here actually own 360hz monitors? I can tell you right now the number of people who own 480hz monitors is zero, as they aren't even out yet. Since 98% of the people in this forum seem to be on 4k or something...

The lower the FPS is, the more benefit you gain from yeeting the FPS.
Going from 16ms frame time (60 FPS) to to 8.3ms frame time (120 FPS) is massive. That's double the FPS. But that's a 60 FPS increase.
However, to get the same visual eye candy boost upwards, you need to double the FPS again from 120 FPS to 240 FPS going from 8.3ms to 4.15ms frame time.
But this time the FPS increase was _120_ rather than 60. So you need a substantially greater total system improvement to keep the same wow factor.
Then the next increase is 4.15ms to 2.08ms, which is 240 FPS to 480 FPS Again you double the FPS, half the frame times, but now the increase is 240 FPS required to push this. The law of diminishing returns is hitting pretty heavily now.

Plenty of charts on blurbusters forums about this.


----------



## Groove2013

geriatricpollywog said:


> The reason I have 4 D5 pumps is to reach 1 gallon/min flow rate with my very restrictive setup. The reason I have a lot of surface area is to silently cool a 3090 running at 500+ watts.
> 
> My core max on Z690i Unify is 77C in a single pass of Cinebench R23 at 5.2ghz, auto llc, and core voltage set to 1.23 in bios. Room temperature is 22C.


1 gallon/minute = 227 liters/hour.
That's very very good with a MO-RA420 Pro and many many quick connects, as can be seen on your screen + a monster GPU in the same loop.



geriatricpollywog said:


> You can't compare this to your 11900K. The 12900K has a smaller die and runs hotter.


I know, similar problem to Ryzen 5000 - relatively small DIE and with much more power than previous gens.



geriatricpollywog said:


> Yes, if you need the extra core mhz and are ok with the risk of delidding your CPU.


Why would you leave free performance on the table, especially when you can cool it no problem.

Delidding 12th gen is much less dangerous and easier than 11th gen.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Falkentyne said:


> I think you have that backwards.
> If you're gaming at ABOVE 300 FPS, there's no point in upgrading from a 11900k to a 12900k.
> You can't begin to tell me that you're going to enjoy a game more at 372 FPS than at 312 FPS. That's just your brain playing "big penis" tricks on you. Large numbers look good.
> The only way you're going to be able to really see some benefit to that is using a 360hz monitor with Blur Reduction enabled and trying to maintain 360 FPS. And how many people here actually own 360hz monitors? I can tell you right now the number of people who own 480hz monitors is zero, as they aren't even out yet. Since 98% of the people in this forum seem to be on 4k or something...
> 
> The lower the FPS is, the more benefit you gain from yeeting the FPS.
> Going from 16ms frame time (60 FPS) to to 8.3ms frame time (120 FPS) is massive. That's double the FPS. But that's a 60 FPS increase.
> However, to get the same visual eye candy boost upwards, you need to double the FPS again from 120 FPS to 240 FPS going from 8.3ms to 4.15ms frame time.
> But this time the FPS increase was _120_ rather than 60. So you need a substantially greater total system improvement to keep the same wow factor.
> Then the next increase is 4.15ms to 2.08ms, which is 240 FPS to 480 FPS Again you double the FPS, half the frame times, but now the increase is 240 FPS required to push this. The law of diminishing returns is hitting pretty heavily now.
> 
> Plenty of charts on blurbusters forums about this.


I didn’t know there were 360hz monitors yet. I said that because I thought 300hz was the max.

The point I’m _trying _to make is that if you are GPU or refresh rate limited on an 11900K, there is no point i upgrading to a 12900K.

I just use SoTR as a benchmark tool. My monitor doesn’t go to 372 hz. There is, however, an improvement in 1% lows at 372fps vs 312fps.


----------



## Falkentyne

geriatricpollywog said:


> I didn’t know there were 360hz monitors yet. I said that because I thought 300hz was the max.
> 
> The point I’m _trying _to make is that if you are GPU or refresh rate limited on an 11900K, there is no point i upgrading to a 12900K.
> 
> I just use SoTR as a benchmark tool. My monitor doesn’t go to 372 hz. There is, however, an improvement in 1% lows at 372fps vs 312fps.


ok that I have to agree with.
And yes there are some 360hz monitors out now. The quality of them leaves something to be desired though (and the Variable Refresh Rate Strobing, Yikes....)


----------



## Super suave

is anyone using the spacer mod with a lg1700 velocity block ?


----------



## SSBrain

What's the consensus on maximum safe voltage for 1-4 cores with air cooling?

I'm aware that Intel specifies 1.72V max for steady state operation, but what does this imply exactly and under which conditions? Unfortunately this isn't entirely clear from the datasheet. From it, it sounds as if as long as the processor is below TjMax and ICCMax any operating voltage below the absolute maximum would be acceptable.


----------



## Falkentyne

SSBrain said:


> What's the consensus on maximum safe voltage for 1-4 cores with air cooling?
> 
> I'm aware that Intel specifies 1.72V max for steady state operation, but what does this imply exactly and under which conditions? Unfortunately this isn't entirely clear from the datasheet. From it, it sounds as if as long as the processor is below TjMax and ICCMax any operating voltage below the absolute maximum would be acceptable.


It's hard to say because Intel's specifications don't call for fixed vcore or changing loadline calibration in any way.
I pretty much determined that on Skylake cores, it was basically around a curve of 1.1 to 1.6 mOhms (10900k was still skylake cores) maximum of AC Loadline, and a Loadline calibration of between 1.1 to 2.1 mOhms, depending on # of cores active and generation (1.1 mOhms for 10 cores, 1.6 mOhms for 8 cores on 8th-9th gen, but 2.1 mOhms for 6 cores).
This tended to lead to about a load vcore of 1.23v at 193-245 amps at <100C for continuous operation, so if you set 1.50v manual vcore and default LLC (default LLC was equal to MAXIMUM AC Loadline for that SKU's # of cores), then you would be fine.

When the 9900k came out, there was something new called "SVID Offset", which had not been present on Z370 and cores before 9th gen., but I'm not sure who even understood how it worked. Gigabyte sure didn't, as their Z390 BIOS option to enable "SVID Offset" didn't even work correctly except on a few "test" BIOS versions, and was always disabled by default all the time. This allowed CPU VID to exceed the intel max of 1.520v, by up to 200mv, and would be requested via AC Loadline, before vdroop/LLC was factored in. But no one ever figured out whether it was safe to do this on ambient cooling or not. Asus Z390 boards enabled this option by default, which is where the talk of "Asus overvolting chips on auto vcore" rumor started surfacing.

When 10th gen came--STILL on skylake cores, the entire VRM down spec changed and now SVID Offset was not only enabled on all boards, meaning max VID was now 1.720v all the time, but the way AC Loadline affected VID was also completely changed. Previously, ACLL functioned almost like the "inverse" of vdroop, where the max ACLL would be perfectly safe to use on good cooling (e.g. 1.6 and 2.1 mOhms on 9900k and 9700k), and the LLC level should be set to the same value as the maximum ACLL. And for better quality silicon, you could reduce the ACLL to reduce heat, voltage and power draw, but LLC, if you were following strict Intel guidelines, would still be around 1.6 to 2.1 mOhms anyway.
But on 10th gen, ACLL started functioning more like an offset rather than a signal voltage based on how much current was being pulled. For example, if you set 1.6 mOhms ACLL, auto vcore and 1.6 mOhms LLC (e.g. default loadline calibration), on a 9900k, even with "SVID Offset" enabled (on a Gigabyte board), at max turbo ratio, your idle voltage would probably be about 1.4v or so.

However if you did the exact same thing on a 10900k, e.g., setting 1.1 (max) mohms ACLL for 10 cores, 1.1 mOhms LLC etc, at x51 ratio, you would get 1.65v idle(!). So ACLL no longer functioned the opposite of vdroop anymore, but seemed to ideally want to be set to the "Socket impedance" of the motherboard. This apparently seems to be somewhere between 0.3 to 0.6 mOhms or so.

The 11900k and Alder Lake chips seem to keep this same overall system. But this means that no one knows anymore an easy answer to what the 'safe' voltage is anymore. Intel gives a super brief note about "offset mode" potentially allowing vcore to be "set above 1.5v" (which is where the 1.72v limit comes from once again), but personally, I would try to keep the chips below 1.3v die sense @ 100C at their max amps draw (e.g. 200-250A). But that's just me and you're free to do what you want with your chips. I don't touch this topic anymore since ACLL's influence on "Native VID" on all cores synched is so different now.

Until someone with more money than me decides to mess with this stuff, focus on keeping your chips cool.


----------



## xV Slayer

geriatricpollywog said:


> Yes, its just velcro. I think Asus came up with it to sell aftermarket tabs. They already have an anime girl tab you can buy separately.


Please tell me you are kidding.


----------



## SSBrain

Falkentyne said:


> It's hard to say because Intel's specifications don't call for fixed vcore or changing loadline calibration in any way. [...]


Thanks for your detailed reply, sorry if I don't quote it word-for-word.

From the various datasheets (specifically section 13.2.1 for Alder Lake's) the specified core AC/DC loadline values of 1.1/1.7 mOhm are only maximum values that should not be exceeded otherwise "_power, performance, and reliability penalty are expected_". The specified minimum is 0 mOhm. Since lower values than the max are allowed, I don't think that using a less droopy VRM loadline should be outside of specifications. On the MSI A-Pro Z690 I'm using, the minimum LLC setting does not even have a VRM loadline of 1.1 mOhm (it's 0.96 mOhm). This ought to be within Intel specs.

I haven't read yet anything about using fixed voltages, but the voltage specification mentions it's for steady state operation (assumed under load or idle) and even allows 10% overshoot for 500 µs, so it may transiently reach up to 1.89V. On the other hand, in section 3.2.2 it's mentioned that "_Long-term reliability cannot be assured unless all the Low-Power Idle States are enabled_".


From tests on my current 12700K, IccMax is not a steady state value. It has to be an internal short-term peak that may not be visible from user-available hardware sensors. If you try limiting it to a relatively low value (specification value even, which for the 12700K is 240A) all-core heavy loads will trigger it even though the sustained value calculated with package power/vcore is significantly lower than that. For instance, if I load up Prime95 AVX2 on all cores at default frequencies (with a slight undervolt) I get about 190W and 1.14V. By Ohm's law this should be 166A, but apparently IccMax (240A) is already reached under these conditions.

I think most overclockers will typically use way higher (or even unlimited) IccMax values than specifications, but IccMax has the same note as voltage: "_Long term reliability cannot be assured in conditions above or below Maximum/Minimum functional limits_". Potentially this might mean that exceeding IccMax could be as damaging as using high voltages (although the effect might not be as immediate).

On the other hand IccMax does not say anything on whether there is also a maximum current value per core that should not be exceeded, but there's nothing about this in the specifications.


----------



## Falkentyne

SSBrain said:


> Thanks for your detailed reply, sorry if I don't quote it word-for-word.
> 
> From the various datasheets (specifically section 13.2.1 for Alder Lake's) the specified core AC/DC loadline values of 1.1/1.7 mOhm are only maximum values that should not be exceeded otherwise "_power, performance, and reliability penalty are expected_". The specified minimum is 0 mOhm. Since lower values than the max are allowed, I don't think that using a less droopy VRM loadline should be outside of specifications. On the MSI A-Pro Z690 I'm using, the minimum LLC setting does not even have a VRM loadline of 1.1 mOhm (it's 0.96 mOhm). This ought to be within Intel specs.
> 
> I haven't read yet anything about using fixed voltages, but the voltage specification mentions it's for steady state operation (assumed under load or idle) and even allows 10% overshoot for 500 µs, so it may transiently reach up to 1.89V. On the other hand, in section 3.2.2 it's mentioned that "_Long-term reliability cannot be assured unless all the Low-Power Idle States are enabled_".
> 
> 
> From tests on my current 12700K, IccMax is not a steady state value. It has to be an internal short-term peak that may not be visible from user-available hardware sensors. If you try limiting it to a relatively low value (specification value even, which for the 12700K is 240A) all-core heavy loads will trigger it even though the sustained value calculated with package power/vcore is significantly lower than that. For instance, if I load up Prime95 AVX2 on all cores at default frequencies (with a slight undervolt) I get about 190W and 1.14V. By Ohm's law this should be 166A, but apparently IccMax (240A) is already reached under these conditions.
> 
> I think most overclockers will typically use way higher (or even unlimited) IccMax values than specifications, but IccMax has the same note as voltage: "_Long term reliability cannot be assured in conditions above or below Maximum/Minimum functional limits_". Potentially this might mean that exceeding IccMax could be as damaging as using high voltages (although the effect might not be as immediate).
> 
> On the other hand IccMax does not say anything on whether there is also a maximum current value per core that should not be exceeded, but there's nothing about this in the specifications.


You need to look at the specs again.
DC Loadline is supposed to be loadline calibration, but it's also related to power measurements. The specs don't talk about changing DCLL, if you look at the 9th gen spec sheet you will see this directly. It talks about "reducing" ACLL to reduce power and temps, and raising ACLL if you want to be in "Point of record(?)" something. 
That's why on laptops, changing ACLL changes the CPU's power supply, but changing DC Loadline (in Intel IA VR settings) does absolutely nothing to the LLC which is completely hardwired.

Maximum DCLL is supposed to be the same as ACLL but this is where everything gets all confusing.
Please read robertosampai's ADL Loadline thread for the correct way this is supposed to work.
DCLL is used for power measurements and is supposed to be a prediction of vdroop. Intel specified vdroop is equal to the highest ACLL value for that SKU.
You find this out very easily by looking at laptops. The DC Loadline value in laptops is shown in the Intel IA VR settings and is always the highest value allowed for AC Loadline(!), but ACLL itself is often set to a lower value. Changing ACLL drastically affects the vcore (SVID) on 9th gen and older laptops as remember what I told you---ACLL is basically the inverse of vdroop, where current is predicted and vcore source is increased by mohms * Amps + Native VID.

However changing DC Loadline does absolutely nothing except throw off cpu package power reporting and the apparent VID shown. it doesn't change the actual VRM Vcore, as on laptops, Loadline calibration itself is hard wired to the VRM and LLC is not an SVID parameter. Intel's specs only deal with SVID. Not with VRM overrides. You must remember this.

So on laptops, the DC Loadline value should be set to the VRM Loadline hardwired value. And robertosampai's findings seem to prove that this also applies to our desktops even on 12th gen.
ACLL can be changed on laptops to reduce temps and power draw, provided the silicon quality is high enough. But since on 9th gen and older, ACLL boosts the initial voltage based on current draw, there's no problem whatsoever with ACLL and DCLL, for example, on an 8700K (8850H or whatever mobile equivalent that is, or HK version or 9980H etc), using a 2.1 mOhms ACLL+2.1 mOhm DCLL (1.6 mOhm for 8 core SKU). as the 2.1 mohms "boost" and "2.1 mohms droop" basically cancel each other out in a way.

On 10th gen and newer though, ACLL became drastically different. It's no longer "Native VID + ( Amps * mOhmsACLL) anymore". You can test that easily yourself on your own system.
Set ACLL to 0.01 mOhms and set DCLL to your LLC level (let's say, LLC3=1.1 mOhms so set DCLL to 1.1 mohms). Set auto vcore and set sync all cores to x49.
Boot windows and look at idle Vcore and VID. Most likely your idle vcore will be 1.15v. Of course try to run anything and you'll probably instantly BSOD but whatever. But at idle there's no load so you can record that Vcore (and look at VID also) in HWinfo64.

Then go back to BIOS and set your ACLL to 1.1 mohms. Go back and boot windows.
You are probably going to see between 1.53v to 1.6v idle. Idle.

That's clearly NOT "Amps * ACLL value + Native VID". 30 amps * 1.1 mOhms is 30 millivolts or 0.03v. Yet difference in vcore will be like 400mv. 

So the 'correct' ACLL on 10th gen and newer (as opposed to ACLL being perfectly happy on weaker chips at 1.6-2.1 mOhms on older gens and running at reasonable voltages) seems to be based more on actual motherboard socket impedance (also loosely based on the LLC as well). 

But that still doesn't help the confusion with DC Loadline. DCLL is only vdroop estimation, however Intel ALSO calls DCLL "Vdroop slope". It was actually demonstrated in a chart way back on I think the Core 2 / Conroe platforms, and this slope was intended to be a certain value. Motherboards allowing Loadline calibration changes are changing the DCLL VRM slope by accessing the VRM directly. SVID doesn't access the VRM registers to re-write them directly. BIOS does that. Changing ACLL and DCLL and CPU Multiplier ratios is all SVID stuff. Setting a "fixed" override voltage and loadline calibration level is not.


----------



## SSBrain

Falkentyne, I understand that DC Loadline affects VID and power measurements and should be set according to the VRM loadline (LLC). I'm already doing this and most of the time Vcore is the same as VID.

What I'm saying is just that the 1.1/1.7 mOhm specification is a maximum value, not a requirement. If the VRM loadline has a lower impedance (i.e. less droopy), it can still be within specifications, provided that other electrical parameters are also kept within specifications.










I was basically replying to this point:



> It's hard to say because Intel's specifications don't call for fixed vcore *or changing loadline calibration in any way.*


If by changing loadline calibration you mean using a LLC with impedance lower than 1.1/1.7 mOhm.


----------



## stahlhart

.


----------



## Ichirou

@bscool








Searching a real jack of all trades – Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake IMC binning with DDR4, DDR5 and SP values and interesting findings | Page 5 | igor'sLAB


What do you do with two Core i9-12900K trays? That's right, binning! Today we have a very special treat for you from the south of Germany. The system integrator MIFCOM has kindly provided us with a…




www.igorslab.de





TL;DR (Same hardware was used for DDR5 and DDR4, and values were normalized)
1) 12th Gen CPUs have independent CPU (P-core and E-core), and IMC (DDR4 and DDR5) binning.
2) P-core SP values are overall pretty high. E-core values are overall below average.
3) Higher P-core SP can actually result in worse IMC performance.
4) Memory frequency overclocking is heavily influenced by the CPU IMC.
5) DDR5 overclocking is much better and more well-rounded than DDR4 overclocking.
6) Average DDR5 overclocked frequency is 7,450 MHz ±100 (G2), while DDR4 is 4,133 MHz (G1).










I guess at the end of the day, it all boils down to what your goals are. High P-core SP may be good for the core clock, but it can limit the RAM, and vice versa.
Either way, it would require a lot of binning which is not ideal for the typical consumer. But at least you can alleviate that a bit by going DDR5?
If you can afford the adoption premium, that is.


----------



## Super suave

Can someone help me out ?!? I added 2x .05 mm stacked spacers, with this spread pattern do you think it was mounting pressure which caused this pattern or something else? My temps have gotten worse since I started ****ing with the chip. Also was thinking maybe my lapping was uneven ? I did it just to remove liquid metal. Maybe just more thermal paste ;p?


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Super suave said:


> Can someone help me out ?!? I added 2x .05 mm stacked spacers, with this spread pattern do you think it was mounting pressure which caused this pattern or something else? My temps have gotten worse since I started ****ing with the chip. Also was thinking maybe my lapping was uneven ? I did it just to remove liquid metal. Maybe just more thermal paste ;p?
> View attachment 2552015
> View attachment 2552016


You can experiment with different height spacers, sanding down the spacers, or stacking them. Clearly you need more spacer height on the left side of the CPU. Ace Hardware is your friend.


----------



## LionAlonso

Ichirou said:


> @bscool
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Searching a real jack of all trades – Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake IMC binning with DDR4, DDR5 and SP values and interesting findings | Page 5 | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> What do you do with two Core i9-12900K trays? That's right, binning! Today we have a very special treat for you from the south of Germany. The system integrator MIFCOM has kindly provided us with a…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TL;DR (Same hardware was used for DDR5 and DDR4, and values were normalized)
> 1) 12th Gen CPUs have independent CPU (P-core and E-core), and IMC (DDR4 and DDR5) binning.
> 2) P-core SP values are overall pretty high. E-core values are overall below average.
> 3) Higher P-core SP can actually result in worse IMC performance.
> 4) Memory frequency overclocking is heavily influenced by the CPU IMC.
> 5) DDR5 overclocking is much better and more well-rounded than DDR4 overclocking.
> 6) Average DDR5 overclocked frequency is 7,450 MHz ±100 (G2), while DDR4 is 4,133 MHz (G1).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess at the end of the day, it all boils down to what your goals are. High P-core SP may be good for the core clock, but it can limit the RAM, and vice versa.
> Either way, it would require a lot of binning which is not ideal for the typical consumer. But at least you can alleviate that a bit by going DDR5?
> If you can afford the adoption premium, that is.


It surprises me the average OC in ddr4 is 4133.
So many people in this forum with problems,
For me its easy in BIOS 807 but gives me problems in 1304.


----------



## Ichirou

LionAlonso said:


> It surprises me the average OC in ddr4 is 4133.
> So many people in this forum with problems,
> For me its easy in BIOS 807 but gives me problems in 1304.


Unlike the ASUS DDR4 boards which are a bit finnicky with their BIOSes, the ones on the MSI boards are pretty much out-of-the-box compatible with 4,300 CL14.
From personal testing even on Gear 2 on the ASUS Strix, I simply couldn't boot beyond 4,300+ MHz consistently, no matter how loose the primaries were.
On the MSI Edge, 5,000 MHz booted just fine. Sure, it wasn't stable out of the box, but it could at least boot up to that frequency.

In Igor's tests, since he used the same kit for all CPUs and on the exact same board, that rules out the possibility of the board or BIOS being the problem.
Some IMCs could run beyond 4,133 MHz while others simply couldn't.

In other news: My Trident Z Neo 3,600 CL14 kit just arrived today, so I will experiment to see whether or not it will boot higher frequencies on Gear 1 better than my Galax kit.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Ichirou said:


> Unlike the ASUS DDR4 boards which are a bit finnicky with their BIOSes, the ones on the MSI boards are pretty much out-of-the-box compatible with 4,300 CL14.
> From personal testing even on Gear 2 on the ASUS Strix, I simply couldn't boot beyond 4,300+ MHz consistently, no matter how loose the primaries were.
> On the MSI Edge, 5,000 MHz booted just fine. Sure, it wasn't stable out of the box, but it could at least boot up to that frequency.
> 
> In Igor's tests, since he used the same kit for all CPUs and on the exact same board, that rules out the possibility of the board or BIOS being the problem.
> Some IMCs could run beyond 4,133 MHz while others simply couldn't.
> 
> In other news: My Trident Z Neo 3,600 CL14 kit just arrived today, so I will experiment to see whether or not it will boot higher frequencies on Gear 1 better than my Galax kit.


Are you talking about gear 1 or gear 2 speeds? My Strix D4 does 4200cl14 stable in gear 1 and can bench 4300cl14. I’m not aware of anybody going beyond those speeds on an MSI board. I think Carillo was able to match it.


----------



## Ichirou

geriatricpollywog said:


> Are you talking about gear 1 or gear 2 speeds? My Strix D4 does 4200cl14 stable in gear 1 and can bench 4300cl14. I’m not aware of anybody going beyond those speeds on an MSI board. I think Carillo was able to match it.


Gear 2 for the 4,300+ MHz; was just a point I was making to say that the ASUS board couldn't even boot higher frequencies for me on Gear 2, which shouldn't have been a problem at all.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Ichirou said:


> Gear 2 for the 4,300+ MHz; was just a point I was making to say that the ASUS board couldn't even boot higher frequencies for me on Gear 2, which shouldn't have been a problem at all.


Oh I see.

If you have B-die, then Gear 1 is where you see the most performance. If you have Hynix DJR, then Gear 2.


----------



## bscool

Igors or @skullbringer IMC/memory testing was booting into windows and loading Hwinfo, not stability testing. Vastly different things.

So booting 4133 on ddr4 more likely 4000 mem test, y crucnher etc stable.

"I don’t test for complete stability in my IMC binning – also because it wouldn’t be feasible in terms of time – but only determine the highest clock frequency with which it is still possible to boot into Windows and open HWInfo."









Searching a real jack of all trades – Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake IMC binning with DDR4, DDR5 and SP values and interesting findings | Page 2 | igor'sLAB


What do you do with two Core i9-12900K trays? That's right, binning! Today we have a very special treat for you from the south of Germany. The system integrator MIFCOM has kindly provided us with a…




www.igorslab.de


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> Igors or @skullbringer IMC/memory testing was booting into windows and loading Hwinfo, not stability testing. Vastly different things.
> 
> So booting 4133 on ddr4 more likely 4000 mem test, y crucnher etc stable.
> 
> "I don’t test for complete stability in my IMC binning – also because it wouldn’t be feasible in terms of time – but only determine the highest clock frequency with which it is still possible to boot into Windows and open HWInfo."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Searching a real jack of all trades – Intel 12th Gen Alder Lake IMC binning with DDR4, DDR5 and SP values and interesting findings | Page 2 | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> What do you do with two Core i9-12900K trays? That's right, binning! Today we have a very special treat for you from the south of Germany. The system integrator MIFCOM has kindly provided us with a…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de


Yeah, I'm definitely feeling this myself with the Trident Neo DR 2x16 GB kit.
The voltages are totally wack compared to the SR 2x8 GB kit, and although the DR kit boots a _little _higher than the SR kit, it's not any more stable at that frequency.
I haven't stabilized it yet, but I'm calling it a night for now.

So an average of 4,133 MHz is probably worse than it seems. I imagine the IMC either ends up really good or really bad, but not much in between, for DDR4.
I'm fairly confident that my P-core 101 sample has a terrible IMC. Oh well, guess I'll just have to settle for a lower Gear 1 frequency then.
Will probably have to keep working on stabilizing a true 4,000 CL13 instead to make up for the difference.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Groove2013 said:


> 1 gallon/minute = 227 liters/hour.
> That's very very good with a MO-RA420 Pro and many many quick connects, as can be seen on your screen + a monster GPU in the same loop.
> 
> 
> I know, similar problem to Ryzen 5000 - relatively small DIE and with much more power than previous gens.
> 
> 
> Why would you leave free performance on the table, especially when you can cool it no problem.
> 
> Delidding 12th gen is much less dangerous and easier than 11th gen.


The flow meter says 330 liter/hour which makes sense. After setting up my loop, I put one end of tubing in a pot of water and the other end in an empty 1 gallon jug. It took about 49 seconds to fill the gallon jug. This means the flow rate is better than those electric showers in every hotel and Airbnb in Europe. It took about 60 seconds after I turned down the speed on all 4 pumps to 75%.

I could probably get close to 1 gallon / min using 3 pumps at 100% PWM instead of 4.


----------



## FantasmaN3D

Just a quick question because I do not seem to find the answer. These "K" CPUs can be overclocked by means of BCLK increase, that is clear. The question is, if there is no external BCLK generator, is the BCLK of the cpu linked to the PCIe/SATA Ports (which would cause a 120Mhz BCLK to scale across all devices) or the clock of the external devices are locked regardless of the cpu BCLK?

Greetings


----------



## dante`afk

as an another comparison as I stopped using my direct die;


----------



## sugi0lover

dante`afk said:


> as an another comparison as I stopped using my direct die;
> 
> View attachment 2552060


That's tempting! Is there any reason you stopped using direct die?


----------



## dante`afk

sugi0lover said:


> That's tempting! Is there any reason you stopped using direct die?


It goes between retention bracket and cpu, you have to drain your loop every time you want to switch cpus.

too much of a hassle


----------



## SuperMumrik

dante`afk said:


> too much of a hassle


Yeah, that part is a pita. I tend to spill water around the dimm slots as well so I have to dry up the motherboard beforehand


----------



## sugi0lover

dante`afk said:


> It goes between retention bracket and cpu, you have to drain your loop every time you want to switch cpus.
> 
> too much of a hassle


Thanks for sharing your result. Too bad copper plate is out of stock when I decide to get it based on your result!


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Thats why you buy the best cpu and put a direct die on. No need to switch again.


----------



## dante`afk

a block that requires you to drain your loop is a design flaw.

Luckily my board didn't die. i had water in the socket and ram slots as well because the ram block was not properly sealed as well.


----------



## Nizzen

dante`afk said:


> a block that requires you to drain your loop is a design flaw.
> 
> Luckily my board didn't die. i had water in the socket and ram slots as well because the ram block was not properly sealed as well.


It's designed to perform very good. It does that job very good. Best cooler I ever had on 10900k. Like Thahn said; one time and done


----------



## J_Lab4645

Arni90 said:


> Such poor latency, where's the sub-30 ns and 170+ GB/s
> View attachment 2551298


Absolutely Amazing- 100% performance gain from my Gskill 6000mhz 36cl @ XMPI.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Just got my 12900KS. Will throw it in the Apex after work.


----------



## SuperMumrik

cletus-cassidy said:


> work


From retailer? I would definitely like to bin a few of those for a better imc than my current 12900k 😁


----------



## yahfz

cletus-cassidy said:


> Just got my 12900KS. Will throw it in the Apex after work.


@cletus-cassidy what batch?


----------



## Super suave

So temps are still ****, thinking about taking out the spacers completely, here was my last spread pattern ;p


----------



## nickolp1974

Super suave said:


> So temps are still ****, thinking about taking out the spacers completely, here was my last spread pattern ;p
> View attachment 2552106
> 
> View attachment 2552105


lot of paste there 😲, i have the velocity 2 and i'm not keen on it to be honest, prefer the old style mounting system by far.


----------



## Ichirou

cletus-cassidy said:


> Just got my 12900KS. Will throw it in the Apex after work.
> 
> View attachment 2552095


Looking forward to seeing the SP scores and how its IMC performs


----------



## Arni90

cletus-cassidy said:


> Just got my 12900KS. Will throw it in the Apex after work.
> 
> View attachment 2552095


inb4 SP90, and TVB +2 to make 5.5 GHz single core boost


----------



## Ichirou

Arni90 said:


> inb4 SP90, and TVB +2 to make 5.5 GHz single core boost


Technically, from what I've seen here, you don't need a really high P-core SP to hit 5.5 GHz; you just need to be willing to run a high enough voltage and also be able to cool it.

What I am curious about is whether or not a turbo of 5.5 GHz is legit or not. That is, sure, Intel might've set the CPU to boost up to 5.5, but if most average consumers use their average cooling solutions, the PC would thermal throttle like 99% of the time, meaning 5.5 is never actually reached in practice.

If a true 5.5 is actually reached for any meaningful amount of time, then it would likely be a highly binned P-core SP, tested on probably a 360mm AIO or higher.


----------



## Falkentyne

Super suave said:


> So temps are still ****, thinking about taking out the spacers completely, here was my last spread pattern ;p
> View attachment 2552106
> 
> View attachment 2552105


Is the block itself being restricted from getting better contact because of the retention mechanism itself blocking it?
Is the CPU IHS sitting at the same level or below the level of the edges of the retention mechanism, which would prevent correct contact somehow?


----------



## Gadfly

cletus-cassidy said:


> Just got my 12900KS. Will throw it in the Apex after work.
> 
> View attachment 2552095


Are these for sale anywhere yet? I'd love to pick one up.


----------



## WebsterRKL

Super suave said:


> So temps are still ****, thinking about taking out the spacers completely, here was my last spread pattern ;p
> View attachment 2552106
> 
> View attachment 2552105


Interesting. Here's my last spread pattern with the EKWB Quantum Magnitude in "Goofy" orientation and Hydronaut spread to thin layer using the Thermal Grizzly silicon spatula.

Per TG instructions - still seems like an excessive amount of TIM


----------



## WebsterRKL

cletus-cassidy said:


> Just got my 12900KS. Will throw it in the Apex after work.
> 
> View attachment 2552095


Congratulations! Outstanding!


----------



## Ichirou

Gadfly said:


> Are these for sale anywhere yet? I'd love to pick one up.


According to Google, not really. Likely private sales and deals with suppliers. Early samples to reviewers, etc.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

yahfz said:


> @cletus-cassidy what batch?


It's from Vietnam, Batch #X206D717. I have an SP96 already, but it doesn't have the best IMC, so curious to see how this performs.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Gadfly said:


> Are these for sale anywhere yet? I'd love to pick one up.


I purchased from ShopBLT when it went up for preorder several weeks back. It wasn't supposed to get here until next week so I may be one of the first? I definitely overpaid but I missed out on the 8086K and 9900KS so I wanted to try one out this time.


----------



## Ichirou

cletus-cassidy said:


> It's from Vietnam, Batch #X206D717. I have an SP96 already, but it doesn't have the best IMC, so curious to see how this performs.


I'm very curious as well. Especially after Igor found that the IMCs tend to be inversely proportional to P-core SP, especially with DDR4.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Ichirou said:


> According to Google, not really. Likely private sales and deals with suppliers. Early samples to reviewers, etc.


The shipping box shows it shipped directly from Intel, and I think ShopBLT does "drop shipments" almost like a wholesaler.


Ichirou said:


> I'm very curious as well. Especially after Igor found that the IMCs tend to be inversely proportional to P-core SP, especially with DDR4.


Happy to share what I can. I won't be able to do as good of IMC testing as I'd like, as I only have some Samsung DDR5 at the moment. I do have some Hynix chips coming but won't have until next week unfortunately. I'll plan to post the SP, V/F points, etc. I also have an SP96 regular 12900K in a second machine so can do some basic comparisons, at least on the CPU side.


----------



## X909

_nervous_


----------



## Vld

Hi all,

Maybe someone has explanation to weird [email protected] i run in to.

2 month ago got Z690 Unify-X, 12900K, G.Skill 6000 CL36 ram.

Problem - in less then 2 month 2 nvme ssd died, both having Innogrit controller, 1 TB Viper 4300 and 1TB Adata S70.

With these two drives mentioned above system was not fully stable - it could run fine all tests at 5.3 ghz cpu , 6600 mem for night long, after reboot - crashes in 10 minutes stress testing.
Could not get ram to run stable higher then 6700 mhz.

After second ssd died i installed Samsung 980 Pro. Guess what - fully stable system with previos bios settings now runs stable 5.3 @ 380 W load, vcore 1.26 and ddr5 @ 6800 cl32.

So i’m wondering - could it be some sort of incompability with Innogrit controler on 12900K ?
I’m outta ideas …


----------



## nickolp1974

cletus-cassidy said:


> The shipping box shows it shipped directly from Intel, and I think ShopBLT does "drop shipments" almost like a wholesaler.
> 
> 
> Happy to share what I can. I won't be able to do as good of IMC testing as I'd like, as I only have some Samsung DDR5 at the moment. I do have some Hynix chips coming but won't have until next week unfortunately. I'll plan to post the SP, V/F points, etc. I also have an SP96 regular 12900K in a second machine so can do some basic comparisons, at least on the CPU side.


looking forward to seeing how your cpu performs but got me wondering, surely you can't be the only person with one?? no one on HWbot yet unless theres an NDA??


----------



## cletus-cassidy

nickolp1974 said:


> looking forward to seeing how your cpu performs but got me wondering, surely you can't be the only person with one?? no one on HWbot yet unless theres an NDA??


Was thinking the exact same thing. No way I'm person they shipped this to a couple of days early by accident. Did a double check on the label to make sure I'm not crazy, and nope says 12900KS.

EDIT: There we go. Intel Core i9-12900KS has shipped to first customers ahead of the embargo - VideoCardz.com


----------



## Ichirou

cletus-cassidy said:


> Was thinking the exact same thing. No way I'm person they shipped this to a couple of days early by accident. Did a double check on the label to make sure I'm not crazy, and nope says 12900KS.
> 
> EDIT: There we go. Intel Core i9-12900KS has shipped to first customers ahead of the embargo - VideoCardz.com


It's probably just the companies in question shipping out early thinking that it might take too long to ship.
And then not expecting logistics to arrive sooner than they anticipated.

It might get a bit frantic having to ship out a ton of orders on Day 1, so why not just ship ahead of time, right?


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Ichirou said:


> It's probably just the companies in question shipping out early thinking that it might take too long to ship.
> And then not expecting logistics to arrive sooner than they anticipated.
> 
> It might get a bit frantic having to ship out a ton of orders on Day 1, so why not just ship ahead of time, right?


definitely not complaining. Maybe I will have a super bin because one of the first


----------



## nickolp1974

cletus-cassidy said:


> definitely not complaining. Maybe I will have a super bin because one of the first


i'd of developed a sickness bug and left work already!!


----------



## yahfz

cletus-cassidy said:


> It's from Vietnam, Batch #X206D717. I have an SP96 already, but it doesn't have the best IMC, so curious to see how this performs.


check if it has avx-512 please.


----------



## Ichirou

yahfz said:


> check if it has avx-512 please.


It should; VideoCardz mentioned that the initial batches will still have AVX-512. But Intel is still planning to remove it later (likely on the BIOS level).
I think some motherboard companies are against it though, so they will still offer it regardless. At worst, you could probably go with an older BIOS.


----------



## yahfz

Ichirou said:


> It should; VideoCardz mentioned that the initial batches will still have AVX-512. But Intel is still planning to remove it later (likely on the BIOS level).
> I think some motherboard companies are against it though, so they will still offer it regardless. At worst, you could probably go with an older BIOS.


Im asking because i already have access to a KS and it doesn't have avx-512. 
batch from 2021.


----------



## Ichirou

yahfz said:


> Im asking because i already have access to a KS and it doesn't have avx-512.
> batch from 2021.


Old or new BIOS?

Also, you _must_ kill all the E-cores in order to use it.


----------



## Super suave

so this was with all the spacers removed and a bit more of an aggressive lap. I used xtm50 just for the mock spread, it did feel pretty dry when I was applying it, still what do you all think of these results ? I feel like I messed up with the lapping hence why there is no contact at certain parts on the cooler, time time switch out 12900ks;p


----------



## Falkentyne

Ichirou said:


> Old or new BIOS?
> 
> Also, you _must_ kill all the E-cores in order to use it.


It will NOT have AVX 512. Period. End of story. This dead horse is more than dead, doctor. It's brain is missing.
Unfortunately, RPL is unknown, but highly unlikely. Sapphire rapids will have both AVX512 and TSX.


----------



## Falkentyne

Super suave said:


> so this was with all the spacers removed and a bit more of an aggressive lap. I used xtm50 just for the mock spread, it did feel pretty dry when I was applying it, still what do you all think of these results ? I feel like I messed up with the lapping hence why there is no contact at certain parts on the cooler, time time switch out 12900ks;p
> View attachment 2552144
> 
> View attachment 2552143
> 
> View attachment 2552142


Can you please put a very thin layer of thermal paste on the actual retention bracket and then do a really quick mount, screw down, then unscrew and dismount?
Then we'll see if the bracket is blocking the contact itself (e.g. CPU sitting too low for some reason).


----------



## yahfz

Ichirou said:


> Old or new BIOS?
> Also, you _must_ kill all the E-cores in order to use it.


I know all of this, i replace microcodes myself for daily usage, it does not have avx-512.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Which competitive benchmarks use AVX-512? I imagine the 12900K non-KS will reign supreme in these (but behind the 18 core HEDT).


----------



## Super suave

Yes, my gf is going to kill me, I shall do it when I come back from dinner ;p


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Ok here are the early pics. I have little kids so won't be able to spend a ton of time with this until the weekend but can try to get some basic questions answered for folks who are interested.

@yahfz looks like AVX-512 is enabled.


----------



## Talon2016

cletus-cassidy said:


> Ok here are the early pics. I have little kids so won't be able to spend a ton of time with this until the weekend but can try to get some basic questions answered for folks who are interested.
> 
> @yahfz looks like AVX-512 is enabled.
> View attachment 2552148
> 
> View attachment 2552149
> 
> View attachment 2552147
> 
> View attachment 2552150
> View attachment 2552153




Don't think it's reading your SP correctly since the V/F curve doesn't change at all from 5.2 on. I think it's using standard 12900K scoring.

Quick, see if it can pass CB23 at 5.5Ghz all core on the P cores.

Also open up CPU-Z on desktop to see if AVX-512 is actually turning on. I doubt it is.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Talon2016 said:


> Don't think it's reading your SP correctly since the V/F curve doesn't change at all from 5.2 on. I think it's using standard 12900K scoring.
> 
> Quick, see if it can pass CB23 at 5.5Ghz all core on the P cores.
> 
> Also open up CPU-Z on desktop to see if AVX-512 is actually turning on. I doubt it is.


Oh it's probably that Asus bios bug with SP when changing CPUs. I had a regular 12900K CPU in here previously. Can change BIOS version and see what it spits out.


----------



## Falkentyne

cletus-cassidy said:


> Oh it's probably that Asus bios bug with SP when changing CPUs. I had a regular 12900K CPU in here previously. Can change BIOS version and see what it spits out.


To fix the SP:
1) USB Flashback an older BIOS (1100 series should work fine, but some people who had SP bug on regular chips said you had to go back to an even older version). 
2) Post and let it do its thing.
3) Power off and reflash the latest BIOS with flashback.

That should fix the SP.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Falkentyne said:


> To fix the SP:
> 1) USB Flashback an older BIOS (1100 series should work fine, but some people who had SP bug on regular chips said you had to go back to an even older version).
> 2) Post and let it do its thing.
> 3) Power off and reflash the latest BIOS with flashback.
> 
> That should fix the SP.


Thanks will do.


----------



## yahfz

@cletus-cassidy that doesn't mean it has AVX-512, it just means the bios can enable/disable it. If you wanna check for AVX-512 you'd need the correct microcode + ecores disabled.






MZ690A.CAP


Zippyshare.com - Free File Hosting




www49.zippyshare.com




I uploaded the latest apex bios with the avx-512 microcode here if you want.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

yahfz said:


> @cletus-cassidy that doesn't mean it has AVX-512, it just means the bios has it. If you wanna check for AVX-512 you'd need the correct microcode + ecores disabled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MZ690A.CAP
> 
> 
> Zippyshare.com - Free File Hosting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www49.zippyshare.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I uploaded the latest apex bios with the avx-512 microcode here if you want.


Got it. I'll try to check later this week.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Ok updated fixed the SP bug. Now it's reading as SP88, which at least from SP rating, is materially worse than my current SP96. Oh well.


----------



## Ichirou

cletus-cassidy said:


> Ok updated fixed the SP bug. Now it's reading as SP88, which at least from SP rating, is materially worse than my current SP96. Oh well.
> 
> View attachment 2552157
> 
> View attachment 2552159
> 
> View attachment 2552158


SP rating is useless anyway, since it's weighed down by the E-core SP rating, and the E-cores suck anyway. Just focus on the P-core SP.

P-core SP of 95 is not bad at all. Can you try seeing how high of a DDR4 1:1 G1 frequency it'll allow you to boot at?


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Ichirou said:


> SP rating is useless anyway, since it's weighed down by the E-core SP rating, and the E-cores suck anyway. Just focus on the P-core SP.
> 
> P-core SP of 95 is not bad at all. Can you try seeing how high of a DDR4 1:1 G1 frequency it'll allow you to boot at?


Don’t have a DDR4 board unfortunately. Thinking about selling since I have a 12900K dialed in already and wasn’t expecting to get it early. Someone else here might be better equipped to do early testing anyway. PM me if interested.


----------



## Falkentyne

Ichirou said:


> SP rating is useless anyway, since it's weighed down by the E-core SP rating, and the E-cores suck anyway. Just focus on the P-core SP.
> 
> P-core SP of 95 is not bad at all. Can you try seeing how high of a DDR4 1:1 G1 frequency it'll allow you to boot at?





cletus-cassidy said:


> Don’t have a DDR4 board unfortunately. Thinking about selling since I have a 12900K dialed in already and wasn’t expecting to get it early. Someone else here might be better equipped to do early testing anyway. PM me if interested.


That SP rating is almost 100% bugged because of the V/F curve.
The E core SP isn't important and that's not what is driving down the total score.
The P core SP is being driven down by the "high" VID at the 5.2 ghz point. That VID Point is almost exactly what a chip around SP 85 is supposed to have.
But you'll notice that both 5.3 and 5.5 ghz have the same VID as 5.2.

What you need to do is just test the chip.
Fastest test is just to set 1.540v bios set + LLC4. Sync all cores @ 5.5 ghz.
Run cinebench R23. Check for throttling.
If it passes without BSOD, you're looking at the equivalent of an SP 110+ chip.
If that fails, try 5.4 sync all cores at 1.540v + LLC4 in R23. If that passes that's still going to be a SP 100+ chip.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Just want to say high to all the Youtube influencers quietly lurking in this thread and waiting for 12900KS results.


----------



## bastian

cletus-cassidy said:


> Ok updated fixed the SP bug. Now it's reading as SP88, which at least from SP rating, is materially worse than my current SP96. Oh well.
> 
> View attachment 2552157


Hmm, my normal 12900k P core SP is over 100, but you have a little higher E core than me. I think I shall pass on these "binned" 12900ks and wait for Raptor Lake


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Falkentyne said:


> That SP rating is almost 100% bugged because of the V/F curve.
> The E core SP isn't important and that's not what is driving down the total score.
> The P core SP is being driven down by the "high" VID at the 5.2 ghz point. That VID Point is almost exactly what a chip around SP 85 is supposed to have.
> But you'll notice that both 5.3 and 5.5 ghz have the same VID as 5.2.
> 
> What you need to do is just test the chip.
> Fastest test is just to set 1.540v bios set + LLC4. Sync all cores @ 5.5 ghz.
> Run cinebench R23. Check for throttling.
> If it passes without BSOD, you're looking at the equivalent of an SP 110+ chip.
> If that fails, try 5.4 sync all cores at 1.540v + LLC4 in R23. If that passes that's still going to be a SP 100+ chip.


You've helped me a ton over the years, so was happy to do this. Wouldn't even post with 5.5ghz all cores @ 1.54v and LLC4.

Edit: Posted, but wouldn't complete R23.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

It did R23 5.3ghz all cores @ 1.4v set LLC4 easily, no throttling. Also did R23 5.4ghz all cores @1.5v. I'm sure it can do better on those two frequencies, but that's it for tonight.


----------



## ThinbinJim

cletus-cassidy said:


> You've helped me a ton over the years, so was happy to do this. Wouldn't even post with 5.5ghz all cores @ 1.54v and LLC4.
> 
> Edit: Posted, but wouldn't complete R23.


If you don't mind me asking, what's the E-core clocks on the KS? Is it 4.0ghz (1c-8c)?

Using the instructions @Falkentyne posted, are you able to post a cpu-z with avx512f enabled?


----------



## Falkentyne

cletus-cassidy said:


> It did R23 5.3ghz all cores @ 1.4v set LLC4 easily, no throttling. Also did R23 5.4ghz all cores @1.5v. I'm sure it can do better on those two frequencies, but that's it for tonight.


R23 @ 1.5v set + LLC4 @ 5.4 ghz is very good. That puts it firmly above SP 100 quality. That's probably around 1.32v die sense load for 5.4 ghz all cores and probably about 1.24v @ 5.3 ghz load as well.

I'm 200% sure that won't pass Stockfish on 24 threads, but that's extremely good results if it holds up.


----------



## Ichirou

Falkentyne said:


> That SP rating is almost 100% bugged because of the V/F curve.
> The E core SP isn't important and that's not what is driving down the total score.
> The P core SP is being driven down by the "high" VID at the 5.2 ghz point. That VID Point is almost exactly what a chip around SP 85 is supposed to have.
> But you'll notice that both 5.3 and 5.5 ghz have the same VID as 5.2.
> 
> What you need to do is just test the chip.
> Fastest test is just to set 1.540v bios set + LLC4. Sync all cores @ 5.5 ghz.
> Run cinebench R23. Check for throttling.
> If it passes without BSOD, you're looking at the equivalent of an SP 110+ chip.
> If that fails, try 5.4 sync all cores at 1.540v + LLC4 in R23. If that passes that's still going to be a SP 100+ chip.


Hard voltage of 1.54V, or adaptive, or? Also, which LLC would that translate to on MSI, since it's basically reversed?
Or is it just "pump enough volts to all-core 5.5 GHz"?

I'll give it a shot later on once I get off my lazy ass and actually build the water loop, lol.
But too much work stuff to have to deal with, so can't pitch in the time to do it.
I guess I could clean the radiators in the meanwhile.


----------



## Super suave

So I did what you said, paste on the the mechanisms 2 different times. Also I put in a stock 12900k also without the spacers, and it immediately throttled In r23 stock settings. Don’t know what to do anymore. The pcb on my Apex is warped and i’m starting to think I messed up something on the MB. I never throttled like this before ;d


----------



## X909

Nice to see, that Intel puts 1.498V VID. So I'm comfortable with my 1.499V VRM voltage limit. Gives me solid 5300 full load, 5400 light load, 5600 on the favorites in loads like WinRAR Bench and spikes to 5700 in idle 

Did we have a CPU here that is able to do 4300 on DDR4? Mine has an incredible SA. I run 3733 on 4 DR-DIMMs with less than 1V


----------



## SSBrain

I wonder if the 12900KS also has a 280A IccMax like the 12900K. Many are concerned about voltages but nobody usually cares about maximum current and people most often run their processors without limits in this regard. It's possible that the relatively high voltages as per specifications are ok as long as current as long as input current is also kept within specifications.


----------



## Lord Alzov

Falkentyne said:


> R23 @ 1.5v set + LLC4 @ 5.4 ghz is very good. That puts it firmly above SP 100 quality. That's probably around 1.32v die sense load for 5.4 ghz all cores and probably about 1.24v @ 5.3 ghz load as well.
> 
> I'm 200% sure that won't pass Stockfish on 24 threads, but that's extremely good results if it holds up.


ITs bad CPU not like 100sp. My 12900k sp93 can 5300 LINX/prime with AVX2.0 1.181v cinebench 5300 like 1.18v. 1.4 its cpu like sp 85-88
Also i can 5400 ALL CORE with hard stress test 1.296v


----------



## X909

This is a golden sample then.


----------



## Gadfly

X909 said:


> This is a golden sample then.


The 12900KS is just an Intel binned & overclocked golden sample 12900K. Basically, we are just paying a premium for the binning.


----------



## Nizzen

Lord Alzov said:


> ITs bad CPU not like 100sp. My 12900k sp93 can 5300 LINX/prime with AVX2.0 1.181v cinebench 5300 like 1.18v. 1.4 its cpu like sp 85-88
> Also i can 5400 ALL CORE with hard stress test 1.296v
> View attachment 2552184


You can't compare if the conditions aren't the same. Example: your temperatures seams very low. That makes a huge inpact. You have 14c minimum temp on the cpu!!

I ran 10900k 5.6ghz all core in CBr20 with a medicore cpu. Direct die and 18c water did the trick


----------



## gtz

Falkentyne said:


> R23 @ 1.5v set + LLC4 @ 5.4 ghz is very good. That puts it firmly above SP 100 quality. That's probably around 1.32v die sense load for 5.4 ghz all cores and probably about 1.24v @ 5.3 ghz load as well.
> 
> I'm 200% sure that won't pass Stockfish on 24 threads, but that's extremely good results if it holds up.


Does this apply to all chips? I have a Giga Master Z690 and don't have anyway if knowing SP rating. But my sample runs cool (well that's subjective I guess) and can do 5.3 all core with the e cores running 4.1 and ring running 4.3 with only 1.4 vcore with turbo LLC (two notches below the highest board setting).

I can also run 5.45 at 1.525 with the e cores disabled. Is there a possibility this chip is p SP100+? Might buy the cheapest Asus board just to verify.

Only testing done is looped CB23, prob not 100% stable.


----------



## Lord Alzov

Nizzen said:


> You can't compare if the conditions aren't the same. Example: your temperatures seams very low. That makes a huge inpact. You have 14c minimum temp on the cpu!!
> 
> I ran 10900k 5.6ghz all core in CBr20 with a medicore cpu. Direct die and 18c water did the trick


I run on 30c water 5300 STRESS 1.225v its best then this 12900ks also lol.


----------



## Nizzen

Lord Alzov said:


> I run on 30c water 5300 STRESS 1.225v its best then this 12900ks also lol.


I have 2x "ks" it looks like. One is SP 99 p-core and the other is 108 p-core.


----------



## X909

Gadfly said:


> The 12900KS is just an Intel binned & overclocked golden sample 12900K. Basically, we are just paying a premium for the binning.


For sure but a Alder Lake C0 that can do CB23 at 5400 Mhz all core below 1.3V VCC is exceptional I think.


----------



## Gadfly

Anyone seen anything about 12900K batch V140L670 (China)?


----------



## Lord Alzov

Gadfly said:


> Anyone seen anything about 12900K batch V140L670 (China)?


batch do nothing


----------



## geriatricpollywog

X909 said:


> Did we have a CPU here that is able to do 4300 on DDR4? Mine has an incredible SA. I run 3733 on 4 DR-DIMMs with less than 1V


That would be my SP89 (98 P core) 12900K. However, I have the top binned b-die kit which I further binned myself by taking the best of 3 kits. People refuse to acknowledge that RAM kit matters and think it’s all about the IMC.

For reference, this CPU can also benchmark 7200cl30 on DDR5 but I haven’t stabilized it.


----------



## yahfz

Lord Alzov said:


> I run on 30c water 5300 STRESS 1.225v its best then this 12900ks also lol.


30c water with cores at 18c while using manual voltage? kek
if it was adaptive i'd give it the benefit of the doubt, but not even adaptive


----------



## Lord Alzov

yahfz said:


> 30c water with cores at 18c while using manual voltage? kek
> if it was adaptive i'd give it the benefit of the doubt, but not even adaptive


Read carefully. On cold water 5300 in the LINX stress test, the voltage is 1.18V. On water 30 degrees under normal conditions, the voltage is needed above 1.225 V.


----------



## nickolp1974

All's quiet on the KS front, has the NDA police been banging on doors???


----------



## bscool

nickolp1974 said:


> All's quiet on the KS front, has the NDA police been banging on doors???


From what I have seen so far if you have a good 12900k or 12900kf not much to be gained from KS. Plus with KS you loose avx 512 if you want that. I dont use avx 512 for other than y cruncher benchmark  

I have a good 12900kf and have had some offers to buy it but I am keeping what i have. Probably buy another kf as they seem to have a higher chance of getting higher P core as high bin K get filtered to KS.

Still it will be interesting to see what happens when the "masses" have KS. Should be some crazy bins that come out or hopefully to make things fun to see some wild #s.


----------



## nickolp1974

bscool said:


> From what I have seen so far if you have a good 12900k or 12900kf not much to be gained from KS. Plus with KS you loose avx 512 if you want that. I dont use avx 512 for other than y cruncher benchmark
> 
> I have a good 12900kf and have had some offers to buy it but I am keeping what i have. Probably buy another kf as they seem to have a higher chance of getting higher P core as high bin K get filtered to KS.
> 
> Still it will be interesting to see what happens when the "masses" have KS. Should be some crazy bins that come out or hopefully to make things fun to see some wild #s.


Mine ain't that good SP83 y cruncher max is 5ghz on 360 aio, think on chilled water it manages about 5.2 iirc, I'd have to check hwbot, my memory is rubbish!! LOL got a De-Lid kit coming also but would rather do a decent cpu


----------



## bscool

nickolp1974 said:


> Mine ain't that good SP83 y cruncher max is 5ghz on 360 aio, think on chilled water it manages about 5.2 iirc, I'd have to check hwbot, my memory is rubbish!! LOL got a De-Lid kit coming also but would rather do a decent cpu


I think the biggest factor will be how much will KS go for when available. My guess it they will be scalped initially and be $1000 plus. 

Already see user from this forum posted his on ebay for $2000.









Retail Intel Core i9-12900KS - Core i9 12th Gen Special Edition | eBay


12900KS special edition CPU . Be one of the very first to use the fastest CPU available.



www.ebay.com


----------



## Nizzen

bscool said:


> I think the biggest factor will be how much will KS go for when available. My guess it they will be scalped initially and be $1000 plus.
> 
> Already see user from this forum posted his on ebay for $2000.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Retail Intel Core i9-12900KS - Core i9 12th Gen Special Edition | eBay
> 
> 
> 12900KS special edition CPU . Be one of the very first to use the fastest CPU available.
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com


2000$? I sell better chips for less 🤓


----------



## nickolp1974

bscool said:


> I think the biggest factor will be how much will KS go for when available. My guess it they will be scalped initially and be $1000 plus.
> 
> Already see user from this forum posted his on ebay for $2000.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Retail Intel Core i9-12900KS - Core i9 12th Gen Special Edition | eBay
> 
> 
> 12900KS special edition CPU . Be one of the very first to use the fastest CPU available.
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com


And it's sold!! LOL


----------



## david12900k

nickolp1974 said:


> And it's sold!! LOL


My guess is it could be a reviewer. They can't release content early if they use their Manufacturer supplied early release chip, but if they get it from a 3rd party, then they can release content


----------



## Super suave

Switched from that warped apex to a unify x and walah! Temps are way better with little fiddling, easy r23 pass keeping it under 90 so bar 1.298 @ 5.2 all core is the load voltage lvl 4 e cores off. 214589 score. It was never this easy OC on the apex, Excited to see what l can pull out of this SP 98 p core lapped piece of silicon that I have put through a beating !!


----------



## david12900k

Shopblt now says my 12900ks is delayed until April 20th...
At this point it's probably better to wait until the 13900k


----------



## geriatricpollywog

david12900k said:


> Shopblt now says my 12900ks is delayed until April 20th...
> At this point it's probably better to wait until the 13900k


If you have an ~sp88 or higher 12900K, I don’t see any reason to buy a KS.


----------



## Nizzen

Super suave said:


> Switched from that warped apex to a unify x and walah! Temps are way better with little fiddling, easy r23 pass keeping it under 90 so bar 1.298 @ 5.2 all core is the load voltage lvl 4 e cores off. 214589 score. It was never this easy OC on the apex, Excited to see what l can pull out of this SP 98 p core lapped piece of silicon that I have put through a beating !!


Now push 7000+ DDR5. This is where the fun begins 
Can't wait to see your DDR5 OC results


----------



## Bilco

david12900k said:


> Shopblt now says my 12900ks is delayed until April 20th...
> At this point it's probably better to wait until the 13900k


I'm in the same boat, what's the point of delaying the release any farther with raptor lake around the corner, 500+ chips on hand for shopblt alone, and retail samples of the KS already in circulation... Going to cancel my order.


----------



## Falkentyne

david12900k said:


> Shopblt now says my 12900ks is delayed until April 20th...
> At this point it's probably better to wait until the 13900k


Going by recent history, 9900K clocked just as good (on average) as the 8086K SE, despite having 2 more cores of heat.
10900K on average clocked just as good as the 9900KS, with 2 more cores.
13900K should then with refined binning be like a 12900KS clocking, since the P cores are the same count.
Waiting for 13900K seems like a very very smart move for people who aren't rich. IMC should be improved also.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Bilco said:


> I'm in the same boat, what's the point of delaying the release any farther with raptor lake around the corner, 500+ chips on hand for shopblt alone, and retail samples of the KS already in circulation... Going to cancel my order.


The KS will be price gouged by retailers on launch and then fall hard after a couple weeks. Even if you want a KS, it pays to wait.


----------



## david12900k

Bilco said:


> I'm in the same boat, what's the point of delaying the release any farther with raptor lake around the corner, 500+ chips on hand for shopblt alone, and retail samples of the KS already in circulation... Going to cancel my order.


What's worse is that I got my shipping notification this morning and then the delay email this afternoon. So close to getting it


----------



## gecko991

I am currently running a 12900KF on an Apex board, I can wait.


----------



## Ichirou

Let's hope that Raptor Lake has consistently better IMCs than Alder Lake... I wouldn't mind upgrading if they do.


----------



## geriatricpollywog

Ichirou said:


> Let's hope that Raptor Lake has consistently better IMCs than Alder Lake... I wouldn't mind upgrading if they do.


I hope Raptor Lake continues to improve on the DDR4 IMC since I plan on keeping my DDR4 kit after testing DDR5.


----------



## Bilco

david12900k said:


> What's worse is that I got my shipping notification this morning and then the delay email this afternoon. So close to getting it


Same


----------



## Super suave

@Nizzen 
She even booted up 6400 xmp 1st try without error, a feat that after binning 6 different 6400 g skill kits my Apex could not accomplish.


----------



## nickolp1974

bscool said:


> From what I have seen so far if you have a good 12900k or 12900kf not much to be gained from KS. Plus with KS you loose avx 512 if you want that. I dont use avx 512 for other than y cruncher benchmark
> 
> I have a good 12900kf and have had some offers to buy it but I am keeping what i have. Probably buy another kf as they seem to have a higher chance of getting higher P core as high bin K get filtered to KS.
> 
> Still it will be interesting to see what happens when the "masses" have KS. Should be some crazy bins that come out or hopefully to make things fun to see some wild #s.


Thought I'd check this myself, got a KF coming today. If the KS are gonna be silly money I'm out.


----------



## Ichirou

@bscool
Now that I've prepped the Trident Neo for a return, I'm back to playing around with my Galax kit. For some reason, the Neo _hated_ being pushed over 1.64V (would just refuse to post no matter what), while my Galax simply doesn't care. Heat stability is up to me to handle, however. So while the Neo was a bit boring to play around with, the Galax gives me a lot more headroom just for fun.

Currently seeing how far and tight I can push the kit on Gear 2, at under 1.68V, which seems to be where the kit stops throwing heat errors. I do notice some subtleties that differ between SR and DR though. Depending on the workload, they can result in vastly different "scores", where one may be stronger than the other.


----------



## 7empe

What’s your highest stable e-core frequency in y-cruncher or other heavy avx load? Vmin die-sense and SP rating for e-cores if possible? Thanks.


----------



## Groove2013

@sugi0lover hi.
Do you maybe have the latest/current version of TurboV Core?
If so, please, share.

Thx


----------



## sugi0lover

Groove2013 said:


> @sugi0lover hi.
> Do you maybe have the latest/current version of TurboV Core?
> If so, please, share.
> 
> Thx


I use the same version that other people use.
If you still need ASUS TurboV Core V1.10.19, here is the link.
ASUS TurboV Core V1.10.19 | bianbao.dev


----------



## matique

ObviousCough said:


> My 12600k does 51/41 at 1.4v in a Gigabyte Z690i Aorus Ultra with the extremely broken F3 bios. i only did some R23 and cpu-z due to completely unstable memory.
> 
> Made in Vietnam. Batch: X140K290
> 
> I'll do some real benchmarking when my MSI board gets here at the end of the week.


Has the latest bios fixed things? What max speed can you push on the aorus?


----------



## domdtxdissar

So boring around here lately, i mean show us something else than useless aida64 bandwidth numbers  

What about some game benches now that you guys have had time to optimize your systems ? 

Maybe something like: Metro Exodus 1080p low, F1 2020 1080p low, farcry 5/6 1080p ultra hd-enabled or Horizon Zero Dawn
Or some other games that have ingame benchmarks which can be used as a comparison between systems...

Give me a target for 5800x v-cache


----------



## geriatricpollywog

domdtxdissar said:


> Metro Exodus 1080p low


I have this. Enhanced Edition or vanilla? Post yours first.


----------



## domdtxdissar

geriatricpollywog said:


> I have this. Enhanced Edition or vanilla? Post yours first.


Think the Enhanced Edition is newer and more demanding on the cpu/mem (?), so that one i guess.
Anyway, the 5800x v-cache is not released yet, so i cant post numbers for it 😇


----------



## geriatricpollywog

domdtxdissar said:


> Think the Enhanced Edition is newer and more demanding on the cpu/mem (?), so that one i guess.
> Anyway, the 5800x v-cache is not released yet, so i cant post numbers for it 😇


Yeah, it's not like you have a 5950X.


----------



## domdtxdissar

geriatricpollywog said:


> Yeah, it's not like you have a 5950X.


Here are some benches from my regular zen3, but AL should beat these without much problems i would think..

I'm looking to the future with 12900K(S) vs 5800x3d, and thats why i'm asking for game benches for tweaked Alder Lake systems, so i can have something to compare against if i decide to buy one


----------



## geriatricpollywog

domdtxdissar said:


> Here are some benches from my regular zen3, but AL should bet these without much problems i would think..
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/RwxpB0T
> 
> I'm looking to the future with 12900K(S) vs 5800x3d, and thats why i'm asking for game benches for tweaked Alder Lake systems, so i can have something to compare against if decide to buy one


It looks like you did 353fps in that benchmark in that thread,

Benchmark Competition: Shadow of the Tomb Raider | Overclock.net 

I'd like to see a Metro Exodus EE thread.


----------



## nickolp1974

Anyone purchased a retail 12900ik in last 2 months and got a decent one??


----------



## Hfhjfg

nickolp1974 said:


> Anyone purchased a retail 12900ik in last 2 months and got a decent one??


If you want to increase your chances buying decent sample, consider buying 12900kf instead.


----------



## LionAlonso

Hfhjfg said:


> If you want to increase your chances buying decent sample, consider buying 12900kf instead.


Or just wait for the KS


----------



## Lord Alzov

nickolp1974 said:


> Anyone purchased a retail 12900ik in last 2 months and got a decent one??


yes


----------



## IronAge

david12900k said:


> Shopblt now says my 12900ks is delayed until April 20th...
> At this point it's probably better to wait until the 13900k


How much is it btw. ?


----------



## david12900k

IronAge said:


> How much is it btw. ?


$780.79 USD


----------



## IronAge

david12900k said:


> $780.79 USD


that is with sales tax and shipping - or without ? thanks for replying btw.


----------



## Ichirou

Falkentyne said:


> What you need to do is just test the chip.
> Fastest test is just to set 1.540v bios set + LLC4. Sync all cores @ 5.5 ghz.
> Run cinebench R23. Check for throttling.
> If it passes without BSOD, you're looking at the equivalent of an SP 110+ chip.
> If that fails, try 5.4 sync all cores at 1.540v + LLC4 in R23. If that passes that's still going to be a SP 100+ chip.


I just revisited this today. Are we to test LLC 4 because it is the level that provides the least amount of overshoot (on ASUS)?
On MSI, the BIOS provides the user with this visual as a reference (their levels also go from 1-8, but reversed).








Based on that visual, I'm guessing the modes are more or less equivalent between MSI and ASUS, but just reversed?
So Mode 4 would be roughly equivalent to LLC 4?
According to a Buildzoid video on an older MSI board which he physically used a meter to measure, he found Mode 3-4 to be basically flat.

Is it essentially: HWInfo Vcore Max = BIOS set Vcore? Or maybe at worst an extra 10 mV higher?


----------



## digitalfrost

Ichirou said:


> Based on that visual, I'm guessing the modes are more or less equivalent between MSI and ASUS, but just reversed?
> So Mode 4 would be roughly equivalent to LLC 4?


I can only speak for the Pro Z690-A, but MSI LLC levels are much steeper than ASUS, at least if you're using an 8 core CPU. MSI does not offer the very droopy 1.7mohms that ASUS does. From my testing the levels seem to be this:



Code:


ASUS                                MSI     DC_LL

LLC1: 1.7 milliohms                   
LLC2: 1.46 milliohms               
LLC3: 1.1 milliohms
LLC4: 0.98 milliohms                LLC8    90
LLC5: 0.73 milliohms                LLC7    70
LLC6: 0.49 milliohms                LLC6    53
LLC7: 0.24 milliohms                LLC5    40
LLC8: 0.01 milliohms (flat).


----------



## Ichirou

digitalfrost said:


> I can only speak for the Pro Z690-A, but MSI LLC levels are much steeper than ASUS, at least if you're using an 8 core CPU. MSI does not offer the very droopy 1.7mohms that ASUS does. From my testing the levels seem to be this:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> ASUS                                MSI     DC_LL
> 
> LLC1: 1.7 milliohms
> LLC2: 1.46 milliohms
> LLC3: 1.1 milliohms
> LLC4: 0.98 milliohms                LLC8    90
> LLC5: 0.73 milliohms                LLC7    70
> LLC6: 0.49 milliohms                LLC6    53
> LLC7: 0.24 milliohms                LLC5    40
> LLC8: 0.01 milliohms (flat).


Ah, so I should start with LLC 8 first? Like, is the goal to just eliminate overshoot altogether?
And do I need to set AC_LL and DC_LL if I use Adaptive voltage? That stuff's always confused me.


----------



## nickolp1974

LionAlonso said:


> Or just wait for the KS


depends on price, if there gonna scalp then no


----------



## nickolp1974

Lord Alzov said:


> yes


what did you get and batch?


----------



## podstanar

Hey everyone, my specs:

*CPU: *12600kf (turbo boost by usage oc: 4cores x51, 6cores x50, e-cores x41, ring x41, VCORE: VF curve (-0.020V @ x51, runs at 1.3V at max stress load), LLC: auto, enhanced turbo disabled, all power limits disabled, long duration maintained 128sec)

*RAM*: ballistix 2x16GB 3600-16-18-18-38 Kit [micron e-die] oc'ed to 3900-15-18-17-37-cr2 (VCCSA: 1.25V, VDIMM: 1.45V)

*MB*: msi z690 pro-a ddr4

*Cooler*: arctic freezer II 240


Can i push CPU more (for dailiy 24/7)? Setting even one core to x52 is unstable, didn't try with more voltage as i am not sure how safe it is. Also, if i set LLC to 5 (for example) VF curve doesn't listen anymore, and uses ~1.344V at max load. Is this bugged or i am not getting how it works? Also, i have tried adaptive and adaptive+offset, it draws over 1.4V on both, and if i set too big negative offset, it becomes unstable (freezes). What do you guys think?


----------



## david12900k

IronAge said:


> that is with sales tax and shipping - or without ? thanks for replying btw.


That's without tax or shipping. Here is the breakdown. The shipping is for 2 day shipping



Purchase Sub Total: $780.79
Estimated Shipping: 35.34
Handling: 2.00
Sales Tax: 0.00
Order Total: $818.13


----------



## borant

david12900k said:


> That's without tax or shipping. Here is the breakdown. The shipping is for 2 day shipping
> 
> 
> 
> Purchase Sub Total: $780.79
> Estimated Shipping: 35.34
> Handling: 2.00
> Sales Tax: 0.00
> Order Total: $818.13


they did not charge a tax for my boxed version. it made it for free in 3 days because of weekend:
Purchase Sub Total: $791.74
Shipping: 0.00
Handling: 2.00
Sales Tax: 0.00
Total Billed To Card: -> $793.74 <-


----------



## domdtxdissar

geriatricpollywog said:


> I have this. Enhanced Edition or vanilla? Post yours first.


So do you have any numbers to share to share with us ?


----------



## SuperMumrik

domdtxdissar said:


> So do you have any numbers to share to share with us ?


What in-game settings?


----------



## domdtxdissar

SuperMumrik said:


> What in-game settings?





domdtxdissar said:


> So boring around here lately, i mean show us something else than useless aida64 bandwidth numbers
> 
> What about some game benches now that you guys have had time to optimize your systems ?
> 
> Maybe something like: Metro Exodus 1080p low, F1 2020 1080p low, farcry 5/6 1080p ultra hd-enabled or Horizon Zero Dawn
> Or some other games that have ingame benchmarks which can be used as a comparison between systems...
> 
> Give me a target for 5800x v-cache


^^


----------



## SuperMumrik

domdtxdissar said:


> ^^
> View attachment 2552986
> 
> View attachment 2552987












Like this? Enhanced edition is kinda limited in the settings menu


----------



## bscool

domdtxdissar said:


> So do you have any numbers to share to share with us ?


Hopefully gets unbanned so he can post some. Sounds like a few people got mistakenly banned from the z690 Strix thread will all the stuff going on over there. @Falkentyne was banned also but he said it should get lifted as it was a mistake.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Benchmark is capped at 250fps(not sure why max is 356), so I don't think it will give us any useful data.
Anyway, here it is..


----------



## domdtxdissar

SuperMumrik said:


> View attachment 2552992
> 
> 
> Like this? Enhanced edition is kinda limited in the settings menu


Frack, i thought i ran the enhanced version but it seems like i must have used the regular one.. 😒
So if you would use the regular one instead, we could use the data i've already have gathered with my non 3d-cached Zen3
And this one dont seem to be capped to 250 fps either..


----------



## SuperMumrik

domdtxdissar said:


> Frack, i thought i ran the enhanced version but it seems like i must have used the regular one.. 😒
> So if you would use the regular one instead, we could use the data i've already have gathered with my non 3d-cached Zen3
> And this one dont seem to be capped to 250 fps either..


Aight, I'll install the regular version.. But first, it's leg day


----------



## Groove2013

Received my 12900K + Strix D4 + 2x16 GB 3600 MHz 14-14-14-34.

Will see how good are these specific samples.
Whether it's possible to do more than 5.2 GHz CPU, close to 5.0 GHz cache and like 4200 or 4266 MHz RAM CL14/15.


----------



## SuperMumrik

domdtxdissar said:


> Frack, i thought i ran the enhanced version but it seems like i must have used the regular one.. 😒
> So if you would use the regular one instead, we could use the data i've already have gathered with my non 3d-cached Zen3
> And this one dont seem to be capped to 250 fps either..
> View attachment 2552994


Alder lake is fast


----------



## Nizzen

AlderLake is the 400fps cpu 

Battlefield V in normal Win 11.









Haven't the exact fps from my old 10900k 5.5ghz and 4700c17 1t, but it wasn't even close to this!


----------



## domdtxdissar

SuperMumrik said:


> Alder lake is fast
> 
> View attachment 2553007


Very nice 

~27% average 99th framerate
~27% max 99th framerate
~25% minimum 99th framerate
vs my regular zen3. What cpu clockspeed did you run at ?

Lets just say 5800x3d will have its have its work cut out for it..
Actually dont think zen3 v-cache can match this.. Properly Probably need Zen4 to lay waste to AL 

Could you do more of the other game benches ?


----------



## SuperMumrik

domdtxdissar said:


> Properly need Zen4 to lay waste to AL


But then AL is old news and zen is up against Raptor Lake with it's big game cashe 😜




domdtxdissar said:


> Could you do more of the other game benches ?


Sure, if I got the games? Do you got Troy by any chance?


----------



## ObviousCough

My 12700k won't post with DDR4 channel A populated. I've tried two boards and 6 different sticks. I checked the boards and sticks with other cpus also. The problem is for sure with my i7.

Channel B has no issue going up to 4133 in Gear1.

The CPU has just been chilling in the clamshell for weeks. Last used in my Apex doing DDR5 stuff. I don't see how DDR5 stuff could have degraded my DDR4 IMC though.




ObviousCough said:


> My i7 can handle the same good timings as my i5. I probably won't get around to trying 32GB until tomorrow or tuesday.


----------



## Ichirou

ObviousCough said:


> My 12700k won't post with channel A populated. I've tried two boards and 6 different sticks. I checked the boards and sticks with other cpus also. The problem is for sure with my i7.
> 
> Channel B has no issue going up to 4133 in Gear1.
> 
> The CPU has just been chilling in the clamshell for weeks. Last used in my Apex doing DDR5 stuff. I don't see how DDR5 stuff could have degraded my DDR4 IMC though.


Not unusual. I had two 12900Ks that had trouble doing even 4,100 MHz Gear 1 stable.
DDR5 and DDR4 have two different IMC qualities, so they are irrelevant with one another.
More silicon lottery BS to have to contend with. Still binning more 12900Ks as I speak.


----------



## ObviousCough

You've misunderstood. My working CPU doesn't work any more. It had no trouble doing 4000CL14 in dual channel now it won't do 2133 in single channel. (Unless it's in channel B, then it can still do 4133)


----------



## Ichirou

ObviousCough said:


> You've misunderstood. My working CPU doesn't work any more. It had no trouble doing 4000CL14 in dual channel now it won't do 2133 in single channel. (Unless it's in channel B, then it can still do 4133)


So the IMC burned out? Ouch. Nothing you can do besides RMA then.

Strange that it works in specific channels, though. That's usually a motherboard issue.


----------



## ObviousCough

I tested it in my 4 dimm and 2 dimm board. The memory slot closest to the cpu fails to post every time. Move the stick to the furthest slot and it posts ez. Move the stick back and return to no post. 

I have no idea how this could have happened. It worked just fine with both channels before I stuck it in my Apex.


----------



## Ichirou

ObviousCough said:


> I tested it in my 4 dimm and 2 dimm board. The memory slot closest to the cpu fails to post every time. Move the stick to the furthest slot and it posts ez. Move the stick back and return to no post.
> 
> I have no idea how this could have happened. It worked just fine with both channels before I stuck it in my Apex.


Are you sure... that the CPU or RAM hasn't burnt out both of those memory slots?
Sounds like something that's hard to isolate for sure without a completely different CPU or RAM kit.


----------



## ObviousCough

I have 8 kits of DDR4 i can test with


----------



## Falkentyne

ObviousCough said:


> I tested it in my 4 dimm and 2 dimm board. The memory slot closest to the cpu fails to post every time. Move the stick to the furthest slot and it posts ez. Move the stick back and return to no post.
> 
> I have no idea how this could have happened. It worked just fine with both channels before I stuck it in my Apex.


The CPU's memory channels were working fine until you switched from a DDR4 board to a DDR5 board?
Do you remember the voltages that were being pushed into it before you noticed problems?

Does the CPU still work in both channels on your DDR5 board up to QVL validated frequency?


----------



## david12900k

Where do you guys get your CPU's for binning? Which stores allow returns of used CPU's (with thermal paste applied then cleaned)?


----------



## Nizzen

david12900k said:


> Where do you guys get your CPU's for binning? Which stores allow returns of used CPU's (with thermal paste applied then cleaned)?


Norway ftw 😎


----------



## LionS7

Guys, does anyone know why Win 11 Pro is forcing Ultimate performance power plan ? Im using 12900K @5100/4100/4100 and every power option in the bios is maxed. Is it something in the bios ? It's forcing it silent and on random situation.


----------



## Ichirou

david12900k said:


> Where do you guys get your CPU's for binning? Which stores allow returns of used CPU's (with thermal paste applied then cleaned)?


Pretty sure it depends on store. Almost every computer store in Canada no longer has returns permitted (for COVID reasons, apparently).
Most stores that do accept returns most likely won't actually check the box's contents beyond just making sure it is actually in the package.

Amazon's probably your best bet, but I know from some of my friends who have worked at Amazon that they'll blacklist you after a while. Can't abuse the system too much.
But if you have multiple stores, you can play the lottery across them, especially if you visit them in person.
It's better not to stick with the same store if a CPU is poorly binned there, anyway. Try to avoid getting the same batch for that reason alone.

There are some wholesalers and direct-to-consumer stores, but you'd have to find them yourself.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

SuperMumrik said:


> But then AL is old news and zen is up against Raptor Lake with it's big game cashe 😜
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, if I got the games? Do you got Troy by any chance?



Lets do cs go 1080p lowest setting


----------



## SuperMumrik

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Lets do cs go 1080p lowest setting


This was with DDR4, but I might give it another go
I might be able to break 1k fps


----------



## Cmarr1073

Just Fyi. Newegg has the 12900KS for sale. $799.









Intel Core i9-12900KS - Core i9 12th Gen Alder Lake 16-Core (8P+8E) 3.4 GHz LGA 1700 150W Intel UHD Graphics 770 Desktop Processor - BX8071512900KS - Newegg.com


Buy Intel Core i9-12900KS - Core i9 12th Gen Alder Lake 16-Core (8P+8E) 3.4 GHz LGA 1700 150W Intel UHD Graphics 770 Desktop Processor - BX8071512900KS with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com


----------



## ObviousCough

Falkentyne said:


> The CPU's memory channels were working fine until you switched from a DDR4 board to a DDR5 board?
> Do you remember the voltages that were being pushed into it before you noticed problems?
> 
> Does the CPU still work in both channels on your DDR5 board up to QVL validated frequency?


It was last used about two weeks ago to show how ****ty the A channel is on my Apex. I've been running my G6900 most of the time and the i7 has just been hanging around in the clamshell.

time stamped for voltages:





I'll put it back in the Apex this weekend and see if it's still working.


----------



## GtiJason

david12900k said:


> Where do you guys get your CPU's for binning? Which stores allow returns of used CPU's (with thermal paste applied then cleaned)?


What I do and most/all of my XOC friends that don't have ASUS, MSI, ASRock, Gigabyte or EVGA sponsorship do is buy what we can afford at the time, usually 3 - 5 cpu's and bin them on air quickly first. If the cpu has any signs of a strong core, IMC (some generations look for strong uncore/cache or even for a great single core) can be sold at HWBot for retail if it has something like a decent mem controller and up to around 2x retail for a ln2 scaling golden sample. CPU's that do not appeal to Overclockers at HWBot for one reason or another are sold for a 10 - 15% loss on ebay. This has been discussed several times at hwbot and in private (OCN, r/overclocking, xtremesystems etc) Team chats on discord and formerly Skype. While you will never get a universal agreement most guys I am friends with / Teammates with tend to agree that buying cpu's from a place like Amazon and returning the rejects (especially as "unopened" or "new") is a Shady practice. Most places in the US won't take open box cpu returns anyways since there is no need to open the box unless you are going to use the cpu. All relevant information such as batch number is on the box anyways if applicable. Now if you live somewhere that will accept "open box" cpu returns and then sell's them to customers at a discount open box price thats a different story and one I am not at liberty to comment on having no experience on the topic.


----------



## nickolp1974

GtiJason said:


> What I do and most/all of my XOC friends that don't have ASUS, MSI, ASRock, Gigabyte or EVGA sponsorship do is buy what we can afford at the time, usually 3 - 5 cpu's and bin them on air quickly first. If the cpu has any signs of a strong core, IMC (some generations look for strong uncore/cache or even for a great single core) can be sold at HWBot for retail if it has something like a decent mem controller and up to around 2x retail for a ln2 scaling golden sample. CPU's that do not appeal to Overclockers at HWBot for one reason or another are sold for a 10 - 15% loss on ebay. This has been discussed several times at hwbot and in private (OCN, r/overclocking, xtremesystems etc) Team chats on discord and formerly Skype. While you will never get a universal agreement most guys I am friends with / Teammates with tend to agree that buying cpu's from a place like Amazon and returning the rejects (especially as "unopened" or "new") is a Shady practice. Most places in the US won't take open box cpu returns anyways since there is no need to open the box unless you are going to use the cpu. All relevant information such as batch number is on the box anyways if applicable. Now if you live somewhere that will accept "open box" cpu returns and then sell's them to customers at a discount open box price thats a different story and one I am not at liberty to comment on having no experience on the topic.


This is definitely the most decent thing to do. We can return in the UK generally within 2 weeks and it just does not seem right to me which is why i have never done it in the past, probably why i havn't had many decent cpus. only a fairly good 4770k which i used on LN2 acquired from HiViZman, I got lucky buying a decent 7350k just the 1 sample and i purchased a used 9900k(before the KS) which i kinda knew would be good (5450mhz 1.4v iirc), very low volts, the seller didn't have a clue. I'd stopped all extreme overclocking by this point so i sold it to a top Romanian overclocker. I personally welcome cpu's such as the KS if its reasonably priced but i think they should be released at launch to stop all the "shady" goings on


----------



## Exilon

Intel Core i9-12900KS - Core i9 12th Gen Alder Lake 16-Core (8P+8E) 3.4 GHz LGA 1700 150W Intel UHD Graphics 770 Desktop Processor - BX8071512900KS - Newegg.com


Buy Intel Core i9-12900KS - Core i9 12th Gen Alder Lake 16-Core (8P+8E) 3.4 GHz LGA 1700 150W Intel UHD Graphics 770 Desktop Processor - BX8071512900KS with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!




www.newegg.com





Newegg is up. $800


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Anyone got high sp with the ks?


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Anyone got high sp with the ks?


Wait a few weeks, when many more got it


----------



## D-EJ915

Exilon said:


> Intel Core i9-12900KS - Core i9 12th Gen Alder Lake 16-Core (8P+8E) 3.4 GHz LGA 1700 150W Intel UHD Graphics 770 Desktop Processor - BX8071512900KS - Newegg.com
> 
> 
> Buy Intel Core i9-12900KS - Core i9 12th Gen Alder Lake 16-Core (8P+8E) 3.4 GHz LGA 1700 150W Intel UHD Graphics 770 Desktop Processor - BX8071512900KS with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.newegg.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Newegg is up. $800


looks like they took it down lol


----------



## ObviousCough

matique said:


> Has the latest bios fixed things? What max speed can you push on the aorus?


Newest bios F6 doesn't seem like an improvement over the previous F5b. They haven't fixed WTR_S yet, and now i'm having issues with cold booting previously rock solid settings.

This is what the bios looked like after failing to boot into windows with settings that were solid last night (It locked up so i snapped this picture)









This is what it should look like.











I'm doing 4000 while my 4 dimm msi pro-a is capable of pushing this cpu/ram to 4100












edit: i forgot to mention the most awesome part about this board: When i am pushing ram tight/hard (but still rock stable) the ethernet stops working. The Wifi chip still works though so it's not THAT big of a deal. Kind of weird though how a stable system can have issues like that. Going back to optimized defaults doesn't always bring it back either.


----------



## Bilco

D-EJ915 said:


> looks like they took it down lol


More than that, I overnighted trying to get lucky incase they didn't change the April 20th Embargo, they didn't and recalled the package:








****ing bastards.


----------



## bscool

Bilco said:


> More than that, I overnighted trying to get lucky incase they didn't change the April 20th Embargo, they didn't and recalled the package:
> View attachment 2553303
> 
> ****ing bastards.


I saw someone esle say that their package was damaged and being recalled. Funny but not funny 🙃


----------



## Bilco

bscool said:


> I saw someone esle say that their package was damaged and being recalled. Funny but not funny 🙃



just got the same thing in screwegg:










Bunch of malarkeyI think screwegg and shopblt are drop shipping and dont actually posses the item in warehouse.


----------



## david12900k

Bilco said:


> just got the same thing in screwegg:
> View attachment 2553307
> 
> 
> 
> Bunch of malarkeyI think screwegg and shopblt are drop shipping and dont actually posses the item in warehouse.


My newegg package got marked as return to sender as well. I was also hoping I could get mine before they realized, but no luck


----------



## Bilco

What i find completely ridiculous about this is that they are holding my money hostage until they get the package back... so what happens if the package gets lost on the way back to them??? You just keep my 900 dollars for something I never even had arrive in the same state that I am in?


----------



## david12900k

Bilco said:


> What i find completely ridiculous about this is that they are holding my money hostage until they get the package back... so what happens if the package gets lost on the way back to them??? You just keep my 900 dollars for something I never even had arrive in the same state that I am in?


You can just press the "Refund" button...
We all knew the embargo was moved to April 20th, this was just a mess up on their part and we were trying to take advantage of it. Now we have to wait. Oh well


----------



## Bilco

david12900k said:


> You can just press the "Refund" button...
> We all knew the embargo was moved to April 20th, this was just a mess up on their part and we were trying to take advantage of it. Now we have to wait. Oh well


You will not receive a refund until they get the box back, and if they package is lost, you will have to start a missing package claim through Newegg. Hitting that button starts the process but they will not consider processing the refund until the box that never made it to the same state as you is processed by receiving.


----------



## matique

ObviousCough said:


> Newest bios F6 doesn't seem like an improvement over the previous F5b. They haven't fixed WTR_S yet, and now i'm having issues with cold booting previously rock solid settings.
> 
> This is what the bios looked like after failing to boot into windows with settings that were solid last night (It locked up so i snapped this picture)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is what it should look like.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm doing 4000 while my 4 dimm msi pro-a is capable of pushing this cpu/ram to 4100
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: i forgot to mention the most awesome part about this board: When i am pushing ram tight/hard (but still rock stable) the ethernet stops working. The Wifi chip still works though so it's not THAT big of a deal. Kind of weird though how a stable system can have issues like that. Going back to optimized defaults doesn't always bring it back either.


Damn that board is cursed. Are you considering sending it back to gigabyte for rma?


----------



## ObviousCough

Falkentyne said:


> The CPU's memory channels were working fine until you switched from a DDR4 board to a DDR5 board?
> Do you remember the voltages that were being pushed into it before you noticed problems?
> 
> Does the CPU still work in both channels on your DDR5 board up to QVL validated frequency?



Welp, the i7 won't post in the Apex with a dimm in slot A.

So my CPU has lost the primary channel for DDR4 and DDR5 while just sitting around not doing anything. 

At least it was only an SP69 and not something great.


----------



## centvalny

Found a decent 12600K 7466 imc reg. water cooling (only one from a few chips) with X202 batch.
Gskill bin always the best


----------



## Nizzen

centvalny said:


> Found a decent 12600K 7466 imc reg. water cooling (only one from a few chips) with X202 batch.
> Gskill bin always the best


Do you use:

SenseAmp Offset Training [Disabled]
Read Timing Centering 1D [Enabled]
Round Trip Latency [Enabled]
Turn Around Timing Training [Disabled] 

?


----------



## centvalny

Nizzen said:


> Do you use:
> 
> SenseAmp Offset Training [Disabled]
> Read Timing Centering 1D [Enabled]
> Round Trip Latency [Enabled]
> Turn Around Timing Training [Disabled]
> 
> ?


No. I will try next. It just straight boot from bios using my 0086 cmo for 0070


----------



## SSBrain

Is setting a negative TjMax offset regarded as an efficient way for throttling CPU frequencies to avoid excessive temperatures? By default it's 100 °C. On my MSI Z690 A-PRO it can be lowered down to 90 °C.


----------



## nmkr

centvalny said:


> Found a decent 12600K 7466 imc reg. water cooling (only one from a few chips) with X202 batch.
> Gskill bin always the best


X202 Batch & Gskill Retails FTW


----------



## centvalny

nmkr said:


> X202 Batch & Gskill Retails FTW
> 
> View attachment 2553404


Yes, awesome X202 batch here too, 7600 air straight from bios


----------



## bscool

So the x202 batch has better IMC?

I have x202 batch 12900kf and IMC is pretty good, DR B die z690 Strix d4 4266c15-16-16 posted screens the other day.

I have it in Apex right now but havent tried max boot/bench clocks for memory. Will test later and post results.


----------



## Ichirou

centvalny said:


> Yes, awesome X202 batch here too, 7600 air straight from bios
> 
> View attachment 2553408
> 
> 
> View attachment 2553407


SP of 136? Hot damn


----------



## cletus-cassidy

david12900k said:


> Where do you guys get your CPU's for binning? Which stores allow returns of used CPU's (with thermal paste applied then cleaned)?


Buy mine at Micro Center but sell them on eBay. Don’t be a jerk and return them.


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> SP of 136? Hot damn


When you see N/A instead of voltages under SP parts, that's definitely SP bug


----------



## Carls_Car

david12900k said:


> You can just press the "Refund" button...
> We all knew the embargo was moved to April 20th, this was just a mess up on their part and we were trying to take advantage of it. Now we have to wait. Oh well


Where was this supposed 4/20 embargo reported?


----------



## Bilco

Carls_Car said:


> Where was this supposed 4/20 embargo reported?


Emails sent by shopblt. They stated they unfortunately had to push back the shipping dates "due to an unforeseen extension from Intels Embargo"


----------



## david12900k

Bilco said:


> Emails sent by shopblt. They stated they unfortunately had to push back the shipping dates "due to an unforeseen extension from Intels Embargo"


Correct, but I'm seeing on Newegg that maybe it could be April 5. Just from the "coming soon" image date on the posting that's taken down


----------



## Carls_Car

david12900k said:


> Correct, but I'm seeing on Newegg that maybe it could be April 5. Just from the "coming soon" image date on the posting that's taken down


So no one officially knows then. Because I don’t see anything on Newegg regarding a 12900KS, nor do I see anything on the web about an embargo of Apr 20.


----------



## firezen42

Carls_Car said:


> So no one officially knows then. Because I don’t see anything on Newegg regarding a 12900KS, nor do I see anything on the web about an embargo of Apr 20.


Today Intel has teased on Twitter an event on 5 April, so probably the shipment embargo will end on the same date…


----------



## sniperpowa

In already got my 12900ks been working out of town so can’t test.


----------



## Carls_Car

sniperpowa said:


> In already got my 12900ks been working out of town so can’t test.


Convenient.


----------



## Nizzen

12900ks in stock, and ready to ship 31. Mars here in Norway


----------



## Talon2016

12th Gen Intel Core i9-12900KS Launches as World’s Fastest Desktop...


Delivering up to 5.5 GHz, the 12900KS is raising the bar for desktop gamers and content creators.




www.intel.com





12900KS officially launching April 5.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Wonder what happens to the Newegg shipments that are return to sender.


----------



## david12900k

cletus-cassidy said:


> Wonder what happens to the Newegg shipments that are return to sender.


I'm in that boat. It should be delivered back to Newegg today. Don't know what will happen with my order...


----------



## cneuhauser

Hmmm... so there are a few of you holding out for the KS, makes me wonder how much of a price drop we'll see in the standard K version.

Thought I saw some marketing material that said the KS has an MSRP of $719 - $739, and Newegg posted for $799 lol. Ridiculous the amount of profit made on all of our tech components these days. The whole sale price on the processors is probably dirt cheap.


----------



## Ichirou

cneuhauser said:


> Hmmm... so there are a few of you holding out for the KS, makes me wonder how much of a price drop we'll see in the standard K version.
> 
> Thought I saw some marketing material that said the KS has an MSRP of $719 - $739, and Newegg posted for $799 lol. Ridiculous the amount of profit made on all of our tech components these days. The whole sale price on the processors is probably dirt cheap.


Binned K and KF chips will likely retain a good amount of value, especially the ones with AVX-512 support.
Retailer chips will likely remain at the same price for a while, since the KS is specifically a binned version that is priced higher.


----------



## Dinnzy

Think micro center will get the KS?


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Dinnzy said:


> Think micro center will get the KS?


Seems likely. They had the 9900KS.


----------



## SuperMumrik

domdtxdissar said:


> Could you do more of the other game benches ?


Farcry [email protected] Ultra FSR QTY


----------



## domdtxdissar

SuperMumrik said:


> Farcry [email protected] Ultra FSR QTY
> View attachment 2553641


Thanks for the run, but i'm not sure these are comparable.. (?)














VS








61sec benchmark 65sec benchmark







VS















VS








Other gameversions ?


----------



## SuperMumrik

domdtxdissar said:


> Other gameversions ?


Yeah, seems like there's been made some slight adjustments to the benchmark. Minimum and average fps have changed places etc


----------



## nickolp1974

got my KS ordered today, £749 in the UK, 7 days to wait now


----------



## sippo

my cpu isn't best, but check directdie, wattage and temp:


----------



## PhuCCo

I got a voicemail from Newegg that basically said that they know that I ordered the 12900KS, but Newegg accidentally posted the listing before embargo and are being told to gather the shipments back to California. And that it would be sent back to me on April 5th (embargo date)


----------



## Gadfly

PhuCCo said:


> I got a voicemail from Newegg that basically said that they know that I ordered the 12900KS, but Newegg accidentally posted the listing before embargo and are being told to gather the shipments back to California. And that it would be sent back to me on April 5th (embargo date)


Same here. Mine had not shipped yet, My voicemail indicated that my order was being held until April 5th.


----------



## Lord Alzov

Last stable for ALL STRESS TEST.


----------



## matique

Lord Alzov said:


> Last stable for ALL STRESS TEST.


Solid job! Congratulations.


----------



## Gadfly

Lord Alzov said:


> Last stable for ALL STRESS TEST.


Man, great job! What a fantastic result. I am hoping I can get 6400 1T running. Other than the memory voltages and timings, are you finding that any other settings/voltages help with stability? 

Thus far, other than setting SA/MC/VDD/VDDQ/TX, timings, and DRAM clock, I have everything else set to "auto"; and I am having a tough time. Just wondering if there is something I am missing.


----------



## Lord Alzov

Gadfly said:


> Man, great job! What a fantastic result. I am hoping I can get 6400 1T running. Other than the memory voltages and timings, are you finding that any other settings/voltages help with stability?
> 
> Thus far, other than setting SA/MC/VDD/VDDQ/TX, timings, and DRAM clock, I have everything else set to "auto"; and I am having a tough time. Just wondering if there is something I am missing.


I make guid for APEX for unlock MEMORY OC. From factory some apex CANT 6400+ MHZ i know how improve OC. I need time for make guid with Photo.


----------



## Gadfly

Lord Alzov said:


> I make guid for APEX for unlock MEMORY OC. From factory some apex CANT 6400+ MHZ i know how improve OC. I need time for make guid with Photo.


I would love to read it and try it. I will give you screen shots along the way if you would like. 

Большое спасибо


----------



## Nizzen

Lord Alzov said:


> Last stable for ALL STRESS TEST.


Nice job


----------



## Lord Alzov

Nizzen said:


> Nice job


I try stable this


----------



## fat4l

Has anyone tested any KS chips yet ? 


Also any good OC guide for 12thgen pls ? Thanks


----------



## Nizzen

fat4l said:


> Has anyone tested any KS chips yet ?
> 
> 
> Also any good OC guide for 12thgen pls ? Thanks


Release date : 5. april 2022


----------



## Arni90

fat4l said:


> Also any good OC guide for 12thgen pls ? Thanks


Why do you need a guide to overclock 12th gen specifically?
The only notable change from 9th gen is that you now have TVB, otherwise the cores are overclocked in exactly the same manner as on 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 11th gen


----------



## fat4l

Well my last chip was 4790K that I bought from Silicon Lottery as 5g bin.
That's 2015 haha. I was thinking that loads changed meantime?


----------



## Arni90

fat4l said:


> Well my last chip was 4790K that I bought from Silicon Lottery as 5g bin.
> That's 2015 haha. I was thinking that loads changed meantime?


VCCIN is only relevant for secondary voltages, like VCCSA and CPU-side VDDQ.
VCore is still the primary voltage for core and ring frequency.
Per-core usage is more relevant due to the increased core count.
Droopier loadlines help give more voltage at light loads so that single-core boost and TVB can improve performance.
AVX offset is now referenced against the maximum single-core multiplier, which makes it almost useless.
TVB allows you to lower the frequency at user-configurable temperature intervals.


----------



## Lord Alzov

A litl bit improve my 24/7 settings( ALL stress stable)


----------



## fat4l

Ok received my 12900ks oem just now


----------



## marti69

fat4l said:


> Ok received my 12900ks oem just now


loocking forward to see how is the sp


----------



## nickolp1974

fat4l said:


> Ok received my 12900ks oem just now


Screens or it didn't happen!


----------



## david12900k

I'm just interested to see how much range there is in the silicon quality of the 12900ks. My questions are:
How much better is the best 12900ks compared to the best 12900k, are there 12900k's that are better than the worst 12900ks, then the same for average for both


----------



## Ichirou

david12900k said:


> I'm just interested to see how much range there is in the silicon quality of the 12900ks. My questions are:
> How much better is the best 12900ks compared to the best 12900k, are there 12900k's that are better than the worst 12900ks, then the same for average for both


Well, according to Igor's Lab, DDR4/DDR5 IMC quality is not correlated with CPU core quality, so even if P-/E-core SP scores may be higher on average, it does not necessarily mean their IMCs will scale higher accordingly. You might have a P-core SP of 100-110 or even higher, but end up with a trash tier IMC.

I imagine that Intel only bins them for 5.5 GHz single-core stability, and that's it. But naturally, we can expect more than one of the cores to be able to support 5.5 GHz as well, since they'd probably be of the same batch and not too far off from other chips.

It depends entirely on what you want. Different workloads will necessitate different requirements. Higher core clock is not always better.


----------



## nickolp1974

Ichirou said:


> Well, according to Igor's Lab, DDR4/DDR5 IMC quality is not correlated with CPU core quality, so even if P-/E-core SP scores may be higher on average, it does not necessarily mean their IMCs will scale higher accordingly. You might have a P-core SP of 100-110 or even higher, but end up with a trash tier IMC.
> 
> I imagine that Intel only bins them for 5.5 GHz single-core stability, and that's it. But naturally, we can expect more than one of the cores to be able to support 5.5 GHz as well, since they'd probably be of the same batch and not too far off from other chips.
> 
> It depends entirely on what you want. Different workloads will necessitate different requirements. Higher core clock is not always better.


Binned on there V/F curve apparently


----------



## david12900k

Does anyone know what people who already have them are able to get stable in Cinebench r23 on aio or custom loop (no delid)? Hoping to get 5.4 or 5.5 all core if the silicon quality is good enough to keep temps at bay with lower voltage


----------



## fat4l

nickolp1974 said:


> Screens or it didn't happen!



Hmmmm dont trust me? Uuuu


----------



## nickolp1974

fat4l said:


> Hmmmm dont trust me? Uuuu


why is part of it blanked out????


----------



## david12900k

nickolp1974 said:


> why is part of it blanked out????


It's probably the serial number or some identifier. The only reason to blank that out would be if Intel could trace that back to someone who got an early sample and could get in trouble for breaking the embargo. That or the person is overly cautious. If you are just a consumer who got it shipped early then there would be no reason to blank that out


----------



## Ichirou

nickolp1974 said:


> why is part of it blanked out????


Not officially available retail, so probably doesn't want to be traced back.


----------



## borant

david12900k said:


> Does anyone know what people who already have them are able to get stable in Cinebench r23 on aio or custom loop (no delid)? Hoping to get 5.4 or 5.5 all core if the silicon quality is good enough to keep temps at bay with lower voltage


I received KS 3 weeks ago from ShopBLT early preorder, unfortunately I had to do the second delid to fix a hotspot and glue spill pulled one of SMDs.
Prior to that it did stable 5.4 all core in CB R23 getting about 30300 score. With custom loop temperatures were about 90 and probably 5.4 could be too much for AIO.
My regular K with SP87 does 5.2 with 29200 result and I'm in doubts is it worth it to buy KS again.


----------



## Ichirou

borant said:


> I received KS 3 weeks ago from ShopBLT early preorder, unfortunately I had to do the second delid to fix a hotspot and glue spill pulled one of SMDs.
> Prior to that it did stable 5.4 all core in CB R23 getting about 30300 score. With custom loop temperatures were about 90 and probably 5.4 could be too much for AIO.
> My regular K with SP87 does 5.2 with 29200 result and I'm in doubts is it worth it to buy KS again.


You mean, you killed the chip?


----------



## borant

Ichirou said:


> You mean, you killed the chip?


Yes, I disliked its weaker IMC from the first minute  it can be repaired, have no time for it for now


----------



## Ichirou

borant said:


> Yes, I disliked its weaker IMC from the first minute  it can be repaired, have no time for it for now


And how weak was the IMC, exactly? What could it boot up to?


----------



## borant

Ichirou said:


> And how weak was the IMC, exactly? What could it boot up to?


The "weakness" is that it was very hard to train and also required extra 10 Mv VDD comparing to K. I have no problem to boot all the way up to 7000 and never tried higher staying under 1.6V.
But with my K I can almost always boot from the first attempt with reasonable VDD/VDDQ, it is very rare when it fails to boot and I had to push Retry button. In these cases K is always got past MRC from the second attempt. But with that KS IMC I had to do multiple retries almost with any voltage or timing change. I usually tried up to 5 times before pressing Safe button.
I even thought how this KS could be frustrating to non-Maximus users without retry/safe buttons and doing frequent CMOS resets.


----------



## gecko991

Interesting.


----------



## centvalny

@borant Is it V or X batch?
V batch with 15xx and an old halo. X batch with 20xx and new square halo


----------



## digitalfrost

fat4l said:


> Ok received my 12900ks oem just now


I would be interested to know what VIDs and Vcore these KS chips go up to at stock. Could be indicative what is "safe voltage" for others. I assume the high single thread clocks will require quite some voltage.


----------



## borant

centvalny said:


> @borant Is it V or X batch?
> V batch with 15xx and an old halo. X batch with 20xx and new square halo
> View attachment 2554191
> View attachment 2554192


----------



## Mad1137

borant said:


> View attachment 2554197


What is ur Sp ?)) Send pic from bios


----------



## borant

Mad1137 said:


> What is ur Sp ?)) Send pic from bios


SP does not work properly with KS, it always show just SP88 but it works like 100+.
May be in the new BIOS Asus will fix SP calculation for KS


----------



## Mad1137

borant said:


> SP does not work properly with KS, it always show just SP88 but it works like 100+.
> May be in the new BIOS Asus will fix SP calculation for KS


Did you oc already ?) What is ur results


----------



## Nizzen

borant said:


> SP does not work properly with KS, it always show just SP88 but it works like 100+.
> May be in the new BIOS Asus will fix SP calculation for KS


Looks like your chip doesn't work at all, because we can't see any results or screenshots 
Picture, or it did not happend


----------



## fat4l

There's a new 1403 asus bios for 12900ks support. Maybe that one will show the correct sp?


----------



## IronAge

Not that much impressed.



> In terms of voltage, *I settled for 1.35 V* and started increasing the multipliers until the system got unstable. Increasing the clocks increased the heat output, so I had to dial down the voltage a little bit—the idea here is to pump as much (or little) voltage into the CPU as the cooling solution can handle as heat. At that voltage, *I was able to run at 5.3 GHz almost stable .... *












Intel Core i9-12900KS Review - The Best Just Got Better


The Intel Core i9-12900KS is the company's new flagship Alder Lake processor. After our review, we can confirm that it is the "world's fastest gaming CPU," but that comes at a price not only in terms of dollars, but increased power draw and heat output, too.




www.techpowerup.com





Review up a bit early isn't it ? cough NDA cough


----------



## RobertoSampaio

*It's very important to all of you read this before update the bios to 1403*

*DO NOT USE THE BIOS SWITCHING BUTTON IF YOU HAVE AN "OLD" BIOS IN THE SECOND BIOS SLOT.

I'm trying to contact @shamino1978 
Please wait for a Asus answer.*












[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


Maybe try the latest bios. Mine went from mediocre to absolute garbage tier, 1st slot cant even post at 4800 1t :eek: Second slot still rocking fine, benching at 6800, stable at 6600. I'm thinking about throwing it in the garbage where it belongs and getting a unify X. I have it in a stable...




www.overclock.net


----------



## xeizo

borant said:


> View attachment 2554197


It's interesting, I have a KF that also starts with V20*, all K/KF I have seen online starts with V1*

I haven't clocked it yet, still running Auto, but it boosts to 5.3 on three cores and 5.1 on the rest of the P-cores, using 4.0 on E-cores, ring boosts to 4.7. 28111 CB23 @ 86C max, 1.31V max, 278W package power, no throttling, keeps 5.0GHz straight in 3DMark

From how hard it looks to get to 29-30k CB23 I may as well call it a day and just not OC LoL 5-7% slower but generally keeping cool looks desirable to me


----------



## GtiJason

RobertoSampaio said:


> *It's very important to all of you read this before update the bios to 1403*
> 
> *DO NOT USE THE BIOS SWITCHING BUTTON IF YOU HAVE AN "OLD" BIOS IN THE SECOND BIOS SLOT.
> 
> I'm trying to contact @shamino1978
> Please wait for a Asus answer.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread
> 
> 
> Maybe try the latest bios. Mine went from mediocre to absolute garbage tier, 1st slot cant even post at 4800 1t :eek: Second slot still rocking fine, benching at 6800, stable at 6600. I'm thinking about throwing it in the garbage where it belongs and getting a unify X. I have it in a stable...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


I had almost the same thing happen on Z490 APEX. It might be caused by the new microcode for the 12900KS being on 1304 and 1401 or whatever the 2 recent ones you had on your board and jumping back to 9901 bricked the ME . To fix this I just had to put a jumper on the 2 (of 3) pins that corresponded to the bios number I wanted to flash. BIOS 1 or BIOS 2 .
After that I used a Raspberry Pi via the SPI header (CMOS, ME, jumpers, SPI header all together) with "FlashROM" as the flashing software.
I have also done this with Elmor's EVC2 but since I have older board I needed the "booster" to make it work.
Flashing via RaspPi or Arduino is really easy, there are tutorials for everything out there, just make sure you watch or read a few because things do change with newer software/hardware versions and you want to make sure you only have to do the process once if you are new as it takes a little while if you are not familiar with terminal commands to save, check, confirm checksum etc etc I do everything 3 times to make sure the checksums are 100% legit and nothing is corrupted after wiping the IC


----------



## RobertoSampaio

GtiJason said:


> I had almost the same thing happen on Z490 APEX. It might be caused by the new microcode for the 12900KS being on 1304 and 1401 or whatever the 2 recent ones you had on your board and jumping back to 9901 bricked the ME . To fix this I just had to put a jumper on the 2 (of 3) pins that corresponded to the bios number I wanted to flash. BIOS 1 or BIOS 2 .
> After that I used a Raspberry Pi via the SPI header (CMOS, ME, jumpers, SPI header all together) with "FlashROM" as the flashing software.
> I have also done this with Elmor's EVC2 but since I have older board I needed the "booster" to make it work.
> Flashing via RaspPi or Arduino is really easy, there are tutorials for everything out there, just make sure you watch or read a few because things do change with newer software/hardware versions and you want to make sure you only have to do the process once if you are new as it takes a little while if you are not familiar with terminal commands to save, check, confirm checksum etc etc I do everything 3 times to make sure the checksums are 100% legit and nothing is corrupted after wiping the IC


I need to study all this...
And Z690 Extreme dont have jumpers... It has a SW key that change the bios... And it is locked at BIOS 1.


----------



## Falkentyne

RobertoSampaio said:


> I need to study all this...
> And Z690 Extreme dont have jumpers... It has a SW key that change the bios... And it is locked at BIOS 1.


You have o o remove the front cover to see if there are any jumpers. Ask shamino if there are any under the metal front shield (e.g close to the m.2 slots).


----------



## fat4l

Falkentyne said:


> Fastest test is just to set 1.540v bios set + LLC4. Sync all cores @ 5.5 ghz.



1.54v ? isnt that too much ?



Guys in general, what kind of volts we can "safely" use for 12900K ? With LLC4 there's quite a hight drop in volts so with like 1.54v will it use like 1.4v under load? 

I'm going to be doing some testing but need to know the voltage limits on this gen.

Thx


----------



## fat4l

btw some good info from ocuk forums :






12900KS


12900KS is already on preorder here in the UK. Ocuk when are you gonna do preorder too?




forums.overclockers.co.uk






Seems like SP 105 for P cores is one of the highest found yet(not directly comparable with 12900K SP rating tho) + 12900KS seems to be comparable with about 110p core 12900K.


----------



## nickolp1974

fat4l said:


> 1.54v ? isnt that too much ?
> 
> 
> 
> Guys in general, what kind of volts we can "safely" use for 12900K ? With LLC4 there's quite a hight drop in volts so with like 1.54v will it use like 1.4v under load?
> 
> I'm going to be doing some testing but need to know the voltage limits on this gen.
> 
> Thx


out of curiosity your SP90 CPU is that global or P cores?? if global thats not bad already


----------



## Ichirou

fat4l said:


> 1.54v ? isnt that too much ?
> 
> 
> 
> Guys in general, what kind of volts we can "safely" use for 12900K ? With LLC4 there's quite a hight drop in volts so with like 1.54v will it use like 1.4v under load?
> 
> I'm going to be doing some testing but need to know the voltage limits on this gen.
> 
> Thx


Probably same rules as any past gen: Don't go past 1.40-1.45V.
The people pushing above that are just benching super high frequencies. They are not meant to be dailyed.

Setting a lower LLC is mostly to see how strong the chip is when factoring in Vdroop. Otherwise people would just set a high LLC to guarantee stability.
You can simulate the same scenario by having the BIOS on the highest LLC but setting a lower Vcore.


----------



## fat4l

nickolp1974 said:


> out of curiosity your SP90 CPU is that global or P cores?? if global thats not bad already


that is Pcores. Not that good.
I tried 5.2G all core.


1.295V LLC61.30V LLC6 (1.305v/1.27V)Vcore 1.261VVcore 1.270VMax temp core 5 75CMax temp core 5/7 77CMin temp core 1 68CMin temp core 1 68C3x R20 pass 3x R23 pass


----------



## Ichirou

A lot of people here seem to be under the impression that the KS is a godly chip, but in reality, it's really just the same as a P-core SP 100+ K/KF.
Practically all of those chips can run 55x just fine and likely not just on one single core. The issue is the cooling.

The real benefit it has is that it's pre-overclocked, meaning there is no additional tweaking necessary for the gamers out there who just plug and play.
All they need is a decent AIO. Which they probably won't have, since most gamers just use tower coolers (lol). So they'd likely be gimping their own performance.

Just watch once it releases: People are going to make lots of rants and complaints about how they're not getting the performance that's promised from the KS.


----------



## gecko991

I agree it's just a better binned chip with a slightly higher thermal.


----------



## fat4l

Well I'm yet to test my KS chip so... we will see. I need to swap my 12900k but...its all wcooled so it will take some time. Might do it today tho


----------



## fat4l

Ichirou said:


> Probably same rules as any past gen: Don't go past 1.40-1.45V.
> The people pushing above that are just benching super high frequencies. They are not meant to be dailyed.
> 
> Setting a lower LLC is mostly to see how strong the chip is when factoring in Vdroop. Otherwise people would just set a high LLC to guarantee stability.
> You can simulate the same scenario by having the BIOS on the highest LLC but setting a lower Vcore.


 Hmmm. Well my last chip was 4790K so lots changed meantime. I used to run max 1.35 or so daily.

So why we are not doing 1.35 or 1.4v and high LLC?
What's the benefit of having 1.45v in idle and 1.35 in load? Why not 1.35v everytime?(high LLC would do that).


----------



## nickolp1974

fat4l said:


> that is Pcores. Not that good.
> I tried 5.2G all core.
> 
> 
> 1.295V LLC61.30V LLC6 (1.305v/1.27V)Vcore 1.261VVcore 1.270VMax temp core 5 75CMax temp core 5/7 77CMin temp core 1 68CMin temp core 1 68C3x R20 pass3x R23 pass


Mines a P core 89. 5G 1.31v(set) LLC 4 76c max temp this is on Y cruncher with AVX512





Ichirou said:


> A lot of people here seem to be under the impression that the KS is a godly chip, but in reality, it's really just the same as a P-core SP 100+ K/KF.
> Practically all of those chips can run 55x just fine and likely not just on one single core. The issue is the cooling.
> 
> The real benefit it has is that it's pre-overclocked, meaning there is no additional tweaking necessary for the gamers out there who just plug and play.
> All they need is a decent AIO. Which they probably won't have, since most gamers just use tower coolers (lol). So they'd likely be gimping their own performance.
> 
> Just watch once it releases: People are going to make lots of rants and complaints about how they're not getting the performance that's promised from the KS.


Me personally im not expecting it to be Godly as binning would still be required but i expect it to be way better than my SP83, on a decent 360 AIO i run x50 all core, x51 is too much of a push for daily as it gets a bit noisy. I have my delid kit ready for the KS with copper top and so i'd be happy with x52 with low temps and then when i want some fun i can get the bucket out, pond pump and lots of ice with an EK velocity 2 block. With the latter method my current cpu can only manage 5450mhz on R23 water temp around 3c


----------



## Ichirou

fat4l said:


> Hmmm. Well my last chip was 4790K so lots changed meantime. I used to run max 1.35 or so daily.
> 
> So why we are not doing 1.35 or 1.4v and high LLC?
> What's the benefit of having 1.45v in idle and 1.35 in load? Why not 1.35v everytime?(high LLC would do that).


Beats me. There's some equation involved, but IMO, as long as you can keep a lid on voltage overshoot and enable the adaptive voltage settings so that it scales frequency based on load, it shouldn't be a problem over the longer run. I personally don't like Vdroop as it complicates things, but to each's own, I guess.


----------



## Arni90

Arni90 said:


> inb4 SP90, and TVB +2 to make 5.5 GHz single core boost


Called it: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-core-i9-12900ks-cpu-review
What a surprise.


----------



## david12900k

Arni90 said:


> Called it: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-core-i9-12900ks-cpu-review
> What a surprise.


The article mentioned they didn't even try to manually overclock it at all. That's really all we care about


----------



## Nizzen

david12900k said:


> The article mentioned they didn't even try to manually overclock it at all. That's really all we care about


All we care about is the SP rating on the cpu and if it can run 7000+ memory  Overclock on the cpu, is pretty dead anyway. Memory OC is where gaming performance is 

Running 5ghz all core on very low "voltage" and max the memory tweaking. That's pretty much meta now


----------



## david12900k

Nizzen said:


> All we care about is the SP rating on the cpu and if it can run 7000+ memory  Overclock on the cpu, is pretty dead anyway. Memory OC is where gaming performance is
> 
> Running 5ghz all core on very low "voltage" and max the memory tweaking. That's pretty much meta now


But that's what I mean. If my 12900k can achieve 5.2 all core at 1.3 v and this 12900ks can do 5.4 at 1.3, then it's a big win.


----------



## Arni90

Judging by the OC results here and the article about memory frequency binning on igor's lab, reaching DDR5-7200 seems to mostly be a question of motherboard quality. The IMC and memory ICs doesn't seem to have many issues.


----------



## Nizzen

david12900k said:


> But that's what I mean. If my 12900k can achieve 5.2 all core at 1.3 v and this 12900ks can do 5.4 at 1.3, then it's a big win.


5.4 all core with 1.3v load is like SP 128 

I I remember correctly, my SP 108 p-core does 5.4ghz all core @ 1.38v load. Cinebench stable at 1.32v, but not game stable that low. PS: this is with no delid, and like 90c max load


----------



## BelowAverageIQ

Just received my 12900KS. Made in China. Batch No. V202J911.

Not confident that the V batch chip is going to be any good from what I have read so far 

Will put it in the system shortly. Already have the latest Asus bios installed.

*UPDATE* Installed. I was right. SP of 84. Cores need 1.5v I am absolutely GUTTED. I have NEVER had a good chip, never. With the tens of thousands of dollars I have spent on systems and all the CPU's I have bought, not once have I had a good chip.

I am literally gutted. So much for binned chips. I did say before if Intel made the crappiest KS chip, I would get it. I was right.

F%^K my life. Had enough.


----------



## bscool

BelowAverageIQ said:


> Just received my 12900KS. Made in China. Batch No. V202J911.
> 
> Not confident that the V batch chip is going to be any good from what I have read so far
> 
> Will put it in the system shortly. Already have the latest Asus bios installed.
> 
> *UPDATE* Installed. I was right. SP of 84. Cores need 1.5v I am absolutely GUTTED. I have NEVER had a good chip, never. With the tens of thousands of dollars I have spent on systems and all the CPU's I have bought, not once have I had a good chip.
> 
> I am literally gutted. So much for binned chips. I did say before if Intel made the crappiest KS chip, I would get it. I was right.
> 
> F%^K my life. Had enough.


What MB what bios? Can you post vf screen voltages and AI screen that shows p and e core scores.

Would be interesting to see.


----------



## BelowAverageIQ

bscool said:


> What MB what bios? Can you post vf screen voltages and AI screen that shows p and e core scores.
> 
> Would be interesting to see.


Asus Hero motherboard. Bios 1403 (latest).

Here you go:




























I purchased the KS hoping to get something a LOT better than the K which I have. I lucked out on my K as well. Score for my K is 79


----------



## Mad1137

BelowAverageIQ said:


> Asus Hero motherboard. Bios 1403 (latest).
> 
> Here you go:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I purchased the KS hoping to get something a LOT better than the K which I have. I lucked out on my K as well. Score for my K is 79


Omg ... I guess all Ks start from Sp88+ ( Pcores around 98 also ) but now I know I would wait 13900k)


----------



## BelowAverageIQ

Mad1137 said:


> Omg ... I guess all Ks start from Sp88+ ( Pcores around 98 also ) but now I know I would wait 13900k)


You would expect paying a hefty premium, that the so called binned chips would actually be binned. It should have ONLY been sold as a K chip. The difference in price between a K and a KS here in Australia is AUD$400. Geez thanks for the privilege Intel.


----------



## X909

BelowAverageIQ said:


> Just received my 12900KS. Made in China. Batch No. V202J911.
> 
> Not confident that the V batch chip is going to be any good from what I have read so far
> 
> Will put it in the system shortly. Already have the latest Asus bios installed.
> 
> *UPDATE* Installed. I was right. SP of 84. Cores need 1.5v I am absolutely GUTTED. I have NEVER had a good chip, never. With the tens of thousands of dollars I have spent on systems and all the CPU's I have bought, not once have I had a good chip.
> 
> I am literally gutted. So much for binned chips. I did say before if Intel made the crappiest KS chip, I would get it. I was right.
> 
> F%^K my life. Had enough.


Ahh, come on. Test it before crying  Maybe it stays cool and can run that 5.5 Ghz stable full load...


----------



## nickolp1974

X909 said:


> Ahh, come on. Test it before crying  Maybe it stays cool and can run that 5.5 Ghz stable full load...


im guessing not, i think 5.3g all core will be a push, but it will meet intels spec of boosting to 5.5g single core


----------



## BelowAverageIQ

So far my KS can do 5.2Ghz all cores at 1.250v max package temp is 76 degrees = R15 pass

5.3Ghz all core at 1.250v = BSOD

5.3Ghz all core at 1.300v = R15 freezes

5.3Ghz all core at 1.305 = R15 error

5.3Ghz all core at 1.310 = R15 display artifacts, passes, package temp = 85 degrees

5.3Ghz all core at 1.315 = R15 passes, package temp = 85 degrees

Bios set voltage (actual VRM Core Voltage now named in bios 1403)
LLC 7


----------



## david12900k

nickolp1974 said:


> im guessing not, i think 5.3g all core will be a push, but it will meet intels spec of boosting to 5.5g single core


I keep telling people that these VID's and vf curves aren't everything. To really compare this, you need to tune the k and ks identically and see the difference. For example, set LLC 4, AC_LL, DC_LL and find the lowest voltage that you can run 5.2 GHz stable on both the k and ks. For the KS to be worth it, it either has to run the same frequency at a decently lower voltage (which means lower temps for higher frequency runs) and same frequency at a lower temp (some chips just run hotter than others it seems). If either one of those is better, then it means it's more likely to have overclocking headroom.


----------



## nickolp1974

david12900k said:


> I keep telling people that these VID's and vf curves aren't everything. To really compare this, you need to tune the k and ks identically and see the difference. For example, set LLC 4, AC_LL, DC_LL and find the lowest voltage that you can run 5.2 GHz stable on both the k and ks. For the KS to be worth it, it either has to run the same frequency at a decently lower voltage (which means lower temps for higher frequency runs) and same frequency at a lower temp (some chips just run hotter than others it seems). If either one of those is better, then it means it's more likely to have overclocking headroom.


just ran same tests with i believe the same cooler


my 12900K SP83 P92/E69

Asus apex
Lian li gallahad 360 (same cooler???)

R15 @ 5100mhz 1.3v LLC 7 86c
@5200mhz 1.36v LLC7 98c bsod


----------



## Csavez™

fat4l said:


> btw some good info from ocuk forums :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 12900KS
> 
> 
> 12900KS is already on preorder here in the UK. Ocuk when are you gonna do preorder too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forums.overclockers.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like SP 105 for P cores is one of the highest found yet(not directly comparable with 12900K SP rating tho) + 12900KS seems to be comparable with about 110p core 12900K.
> 
> View attachment 2554457


"highest found yet" ??? k pcore max. sp113.
Or is it the highest ks? I ordered it, but I'll think twice.


----------



## fat4l

Csavez™ said:


> "highest found yet" ??? k pcore max. sp113.
> Or is it the highest ks? I ordered it, but I'll think twice.


KS. the highest K i've seen was 119


----------



## Lord Alzov

BelowAverageIQ said:


> So far my KS can do 5.2Ghz all cores at 1.250v max package temp is 76 degrees = R15 pass
> 
> 5.3Ghz all core at 1.250v = BSOD
> 
> 5.3Ghz all core at 1.300v = R15 freezes
> 
> 5.3Ghz all core at 1.305 = R15 error
> 
> 5.3Ghz all core at 1.310 = R15 display artifacts, passes, package temp = 85 degrees
> 
> 5.3Ghz all core at 1.315 = R15 passes, package temp = 85 degrees
> 
> Bios set voltage (actual VRM Core Voltage now named in bios 1403)
> LLC 7


I think its trash. My sp93(103 p) can EZ 5300 1.15v R15 lol and 1.2v FULL stress STABLE CRUNCHER LINX ETC.


----------



## Lord Alzov

Nizzen said:


> 5.4 all core with 1.3v load is like SP 128
> 
> I I remember correctly, my SP 108 p-core does 5.4ghz all core @ 1.38v load. Cinebench stable at 1.32v, but not game stable that low. PS: this is with no delid, and like 90c max load


My 12900k stable 5400 all p core 4200 ecore cahche 4400.


----------



## Ichirou

BelowAverageIQ said:


> Asus Hero motherboard. Bios 1403 (latest).
> 
> Here you go:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I purchased the KS hoping to get something a LOT better than the K which I have. I lucked out on my K as well. Score for my K is 79





BelowAverageIQ said:


> So far my KS can do 5.2Ghz all cores at 1.250v max package temp is 76 degrees = R15 pass
> 
> 5.3Ghz all core at 1.250v = BSOD
> 
> 5.3Ghz all core at 1.300v = R15 freezes
> 
> 5.3Ghz all core at 1.305 = R15 error
> 
> 5.3Ghz all core at 1.310 = R15 display artifacts, passes, package temp = 85 degrees
> 
> 5.3Ghz all core at 1.315 = R15 passes, package temp = 85 degrees
> 
> Bios set voltage (actual VRM Core Voltage now named in bios 1403)
> LLC 7


_Technically_, you got what you were promised. Pretty much any P-core 90+ K/KF can already do 5.5 GHz. The issue boils down to voltage.
Nobody wants to push ridiculous volts just to achieve it, so that is why people are hoping the KS has higher binned P-core. But Intel doesn't have to guarantee you that.

It's all marketing at the end of the day. Intel's making extra margins on what is technically a reissue of the K with a higher single-core Turbo clock. XD


----------



## Hfhjfg

From the another side Intel clearly shows that it's relatively safe to use 1.5+ volts BIOS settings. 
So anyone who had doubts about setting 1.5 volts - KS has confirmed - it's safe (for 2 cores at least).


----------



## Ichirou

Hfhjfg said:


> From the another side Intel clearly shows that it's relatively safe to use 1.5+ volts BIOS settings.
> So anyone who had doubts about setting 1.5 volts - KS has confirmed - it's safe (for 2 cores at least).


Interesting observation. Or maybe they simply expect you to RMA the chip if it dies too soon.


----------



## J_Lab4645

INTEL i9-12900KS: fine print should read........(apply enough voltage and clocks achieved are only guaranteed with the proper cooling solution)

Unbelievable!


----------



## BelowAverageIQ

Lord Alzov said:


> I think its trash. My sp93(103 p) can EZ 5300 1.15v R15 lol and 1.2v FULL stress STABLE CRUNCHER LINX ETC.


I agree it is trash. Expected more with a "binned" chip and paying a hefty premium. I wanted a good sample that would sit at lower volts and lower temps. Got the opposite.

I didnt want 5.5Ghz at 1.5v and 100 degrees. Would be very happy to have had a K like yours and was expecting the KS would have been. Nope. Far from it.


----------



## Ichirou

BelowAverageIQ said:


> I agree it is trash. Expected more with a "binned" chip and paying a hefty premium. I wanted a good sample that would sit at lower volts and lower temps. Got the opposite.
> 
> I didnt want 5.5Ghz at 1.5v and 100 degrees. Would be very happy to have had a K like yours and was expecting the KS would have been. Nope. Far from it.


Refund or resell it? Should still have value since it's early.


----------



## morph.

BelowAverageIQ said:


> I agree it is trash. Expected more with a "binned" chip and paying a hefty premium. I wanted a good sample that would sit at lower volts and lower temps. Got the opposite.
> 
> I didnt want 5.5Ghz at 1.5v and 100 degrees. Would be very happy to have had a K like yours and was expecting the KS would have been. Nope. Far from it.


refund it.


----------



## BelowAverageIQ

morph. said:


> refund it.


Hey Morph, I cannot see how I could refund it. It does technically meet the specifications listed on the retailers website. If I could afford to buy and bin 10 chips, then sell the others at a loss, I would. I cant.

It was mentioned on here a number of pages back of someone buying their chips from Amazon, binning them and then sending them back. I just cannot understand how or why Amazon accepts the return. Morally it is questionable, but there are a lot worse things going on in the world.

I know it is a first world problem to be sitting here worrying about whether I can finally win the silicon lottery. Was just hoping that the KS would increase that chance for the premium price here in Australia.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and replies. I appreciate it.

Cheers


----------



## Ichirou

BelowAverageIQ said:


> Hey Morph, I cannot see how I could refund it. It does technically meet the specifications listed on the retailers website. If I could afford to buy and bin 10 chips, then sell the others at a loss, I would. I cant.
> 
> It was mentioned on here a number of pages back of someone buying their chips from Amazon, binning them and then sending them back. I just cannot understand how or why Amazon accepts the return. Morally it is questionable, but there are a lot worse things going on in the world.
> 
> I know it is a first world problem to be sitting here worrying about whether I can finally win the silicon lottery. Was just hoping that the KS would increase that chance for the premium price here in Australia.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your thoughts and replies. I appreciate it.
> 
> Cheers


You're returning a product, not stealing it. It's not like you're sending back a defective or missing product.

Most retailers (such as Amazon) have an internal policy to blacklist members after X number of returns, so it wouldn't be a sustainable practice anyway.
In order to do return-based binning, you'd have to shop at retailers that actually permit it. And many stores have barred hardware returns due to COVID.

It's much more realistic for people who are binning to buy chips and then sell the poor ones on eBay or second-hand markets.
But it does get tedious at some point.


----------



## Falkentyne

BelowAverageIQ said:


> Hey Morph, I cannot see how I could refund it. It does technically meet the specifications listed on the retailers website. If I could afford to buy and bin 10 chips, then sell the others at a loss, I would. I cant.
> 
> It was mentioned on here a number of pages back of someone buying their chips from Amazon, binning them and then sending them back. I just cannot understand how or why Amazon accepts the return. Morally it is questionable, but there are a lot worse things going on in the world.
> 
> I know it is a first world problem to be sitting here worrying about whether I can finally win the silicon lottery. Was just hoping that the KS would increase that chance for the premium price here in Australia.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your thoughts and replies. I appreciate it.
> 
> Cheers


Why do you think your chip is a bad KS?
Looks average to me.
You posted BIOS set voltages, not load "die sense" voltages.
Yes, 1.315v LOAD voltage to pass R23 at 5.3 ghz (all cores enabled, e.g E cores at x40) is EXTREMELY bad for a KS and almost below average for a 12900K.
But you mentioned bios set voltages, so your probable true load voltage is probably around 1.250v if LLC7 is set. That makes it an "average" KS and a "good" K chip, above average on K chips, and that's what KS chips are supposed to be---anywhere from above average "K" to silicon lottery winner "K". Nothing to get mad and return it over.


----------



## DungeonKeeper1

My Score is: 
SP: 92
Cooler: 172

P-Core: 102
E-Core: 73

What means the cooler score? 

Have a nice day all


----------



## Ichirou

DungeonKeeper1 said:


> My Score is:
> SP: 92
> Cooler: 172
> 
> P-Core: 102
> E-Core: 73
> 
> What means the cooler score?
> 
> Have a nice day all


Exactly what it sounds like. How good your CPU cooler is.
Water loops tend to have the highest score, and then AIOs with large radiators, and then everything else.


----------



## morph.

BelowAverageIQ said:


> Hey Morph, I cannot see how I could refund it. It does technically meet the specifications listed on the retailers website. If I could afford to buy and bin 10 chips, then sell the others at a loss, I would. I cant.
> 
> It was mentioned on here a number of pages back of someone buying their chips from Amazon, binning them and then sending them back. I just cannot understand how or why Amazon accepts the return. Morally it is questionable, but there are a lot worse things going on in the world.
> 
> I know it is a first world problem to be sitting here worrying about whether I can finally win the silicon lottery. Was just hoping that the KS would increase that chance for the premium price here in Australia.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your thoughts and replies. I appreciate it.
> 
> Cheers


Depending on your retailer you can generally return something within 14 days here in Australia. Change of mind or whatever and if its opened or used they just might charge you a restocking fee of 15% of the product's value. Check your retailer's T&C's to see what their refund policy is.


----------



## nickolp1974

@iqbelow


BelowAverageIQ said:


> Hey Morph, I cannot see how I could refund it. It does technically meet the specifications listed on the retailers website. If I could afford to buy and bin 10 chips, then sell the others at a loss, I would. I cant.
> 
> It was mentioned on here a number of pages back of someone buying their chips from Amazon, binning them and then sending them back. I just cannot understand how or why Amazon accepts the return. Morally it is questionable, but there are a lot worse things going on in the world.
> 
> I know it is a first world problem to be sitting here worrying about whether I can finally win the silicon lottery. Was just hoping that the KS would increase that chance for the premium price here in Australia.
> 
> Thanks everyone for your thoughts and replies. I appreciate it.
> 
> Cheers


In this instance i'd be with Morph and return for refund, looking at that KS binning sheet by Robert over at OCUK yours is at the bottom of the pile, well it didn't even make the list!! get it sent back and order another, it cannot be any worse. It aint bad just it aint good.


----------



## DungeonKeeper1

Ichirou said:


> Exactly what it sounds like. How good your CPU cooler is.
> Water loops tend to have the highest score, and then AIOs with large radiators, and then everything else.


Thanks.  
So it means 172pts for cooler is a good score? 
I use a heatkiller IV with 420mm Radiator.


----------



## nickolp1974

DungeonKeeper1 said:


> Thanks.
> So it means 172pts for cooler is a good score?
> I use a heatkiller IV with 420mm Radiator.


what was your cpu K, KF or KS?


----------



## DungeonKeeper1

nickolp1974 said:


> what was your cpu K, KF or KS?


12900k
All settings at stock.


----------



## Imprezzion

I saw a very cheap used 12900K locally and it makes me wanna upgrade from my 5900X. 

I wanna keep my DDR4, it's 3600C16 2x16GB B-Die that on a 10900K ran 4400 17-17-17 and on my 5900X runs 3866 15-15-15 with ease so no reason to go DDR5. 

I am doubting between the MSI Edge D4 and the Strix-A D4. I can get the MSI much (€40) cheaper. Which would you guys get? I will be OCing the 12900K to the max on custom water. 

Speaking of custom water. My current CPU block is AMD only so will need a new one of those as well. 

EK-Quantum Velocity² D-RGB - 1700 Copper + Acetal
Any good or any different suggestions?


----------



## morph.

Imprezzion said:


> I saw a very cheap used 12900K locally and it makes me wanna upgrade from my 5900X.
> 
> I wanna keep my DDR4, it's 3600C16 2x16GB B-Die that on a 10900K ran 4400 17-17-17 and on my 5900X runs 3866 15-15-15 with ease so no reason to go DDR5.
> 
> I am doubting between the MSI Edge D4 and the Strix-A D4. I can get the MSI much (€40) cheaper. Which would you guys get? I will be OCing the 12900K to the max on custom water.
> 
> Speaking of custom water. My current CPU block is AMD only so will need a new one of those as well.
> 
> EK-Quantum Velocity² D-RGB - 1700 Copper + Acetal
> Any good or any different suggestions?


velocity 2's are great Ive been using one.

6400 skhyinx ddr5 has been pretty tuneable and would match if not be better than your current ddr4 imh while giving u more throughput./


----------



## Imprezzion

morph. said:


> velocity 2's are great Ive been using one.
> 
> 6400 skhyinx ddr5 has been pretty tuneable and would match if not be better than your current ddr4 imh while giving u more throughput./


I know, but it's not worth the 400-500 that would cost me extra. DDR5 boards cost a LOT more here and DDR5, especially as fast as 6400, costs a fortune here. I can get 5200 ish cheap but still. 

I wouldn't consider an upgrade for full retail price but seeing as how I can get the board refurb (repaired RMA with full shop warranty) cheap and the CPU used for a very low price it might be worth it.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Imprezzion said:


> I am doubting between the MSI Edge D4 and the Strix-A D4


Strix-A is the better board for DR b-die sticks.


----------



## Imprezzion

SuperMumrik said:


> Strix-A is the better board for DR b-die sticks.


Is the difference worth an extra €90 tho. The Strix-A lowest in stock price is €387 while I can get the Edge for €296. Both hideously expensive for what is in all essence a mid range board but yeah not many options for S1700. Gigabyte Elite is cheap, MSI A-Pro is cheap, but I don't trust those with a 12900K at something like 5.2 P core 4.1 E core OC with no power limits under water..


----------



## SuperMumrik

Imprezzion said:


> Is the difference worth an extra €90 tho. The Strix-A lowest in stock price is €387 while I can get the Edge for €296.


It's up for you to decide, but I would say yes..
I've played with both boards and "maxing out DR" on the the MSI board is a PITA.


----------



## nickolp1974

Got my KS fingers crossed


----------



## Mad1137

nickolp1974 said:


> Got my KS fingers crossed
> View attachment 2554674


Post it bios ) when install CPU


----------



## nickolp1974

SP 90 94/82


----------



## Mad1137

nickolp1974 said:


> SP 90 94/82


Nice  lucky . Someone get here sp84 but why P cores 94....


----------



## sugi0lover

nickolp1974 said:


> SP 90 94/82


Can you share SP screen?


----------



## nickolp1974

sugi0lover said:


> Can you share SP screen?


----------



## BelowAverageIQ

nickolp1974 said:


> In this instance i'd be with Morph and return for refund, looking at that KS binning sheet by Robert over at OCUK yours is at the bottom of the pile, well it didn't even make the list!! get it sent back and order another, it cannot be any worse. It aint bad just it aint good.


Hey mate, unfortunately the retailer will only accept back goods that are unopened, unless of course it is DOA or faulty.

My only option is to sell it at a loss and buy another and take my chances.

Glad to see you got yours! SP90 very nice. Very happy for you. I was looking at your ViD tables and basically the difference between my SP84 and your SP90 is 0.020v I wonder how much that would translate to overall cooler temps.

As the embargo lifts tomorrow, I think I will stay away from all the forums, I expect their will be a lot of great KS chips showing up, with some very happy owners. Would just make me further depressed.


----------



## nickolp1974

BelowAverageIQ said:


> Hey mate, unfortunately the retailer will only accept back goods that are unopened, unless of course it is DOA or faulty.
> 
> My only option is to sell it at a loss and buy another and take my chances.
> 
> Glad to see you got yours! SP90 very nice. Very happy for you. I was looking at your ViD tables and basically the difference between my SP84 and your SP90 is 0.020v I wonder how much that would translate to overall cooler temps.
> 
> As the embargo lifts tomorrow, I think I will stay away from all the forums, I expect their will be a lot of great KS chips showing up, with some very happy owners. Would just make me further depressed.


Thanks the embargo has lifted today here the 5th is it not the 5th in Aus yet?


----------



## fat4l

it lifts today guys

BTw, this is from OCUK forum from Robert896r1

12900KS(+ some other data) binning results:








ADL Binning Mew 2022 Update


Info 2022 Update Motherboard: Maximus Z690 Hero BIOS 1403 RAM: 2x16GB Corsair 5600 Data collected by Bullshooter, Sergmann, DaGunzi and quiekMew thanks to gunzi for entering the 2022 numbers from paper :) For 2021: Motherboard: Maximus Z690 Hero BIOS 0803 RAM: 1x16GB Micron ES Data collected by ...




docs.google.com





12900KS
average P core sp 97.7

min p core sp - 88
max p core sp - 106

min total sp - 84
max total sp - 99


P.S. K and KS sp rating is not directly comparable. It looks like KS SP = K sp -10 (+-)....so 105KS = 115K


----------



## BelowAverageIQ

It is the 5th today (already late evening here in Australia). As such they made the embargo the 6th here to tie in with the 5th in USA/Europe I expect.

Mine got sent early for some reason.


----------



## fat4l

Ok guys here is my chip.

Pcore sp 100, not bad to be honest


----------



## dragn09

fat4l said:


> Ok guys here is my chip.
> 
> Pcore sp 100, not bad to be honest


lol exact like my k 100/79


----------



## Dinnzy

Micro center charging 899$ ***


----------



## fat4l

dragn09 said:


> lol exact like my k 100/79


ye well the only difference is that you cant compare KS sp with K sp 
its like saying 100km/h and 100miles/h is the same score


----------



## Dinnzy

Here’s my baby girl, ready for the disappointment;p


----------



## fat4l

Dinnzy said:


> Here’s my baby girl, ready for the disappointment;p


haha cmon, show us the mighty SP


----------



## Ichirou

Imprezzion said:


> I saw a very cheap used 12900K locally and it makes me wanna upgrade from my 5900X.
> 
> I wanna keep my DDR4, it's 3600C16 2x16GB B-Die that on a 10900K ran 4400 17-17-17 and on my 5900X runs 3866 15-15-15 with ease so no reason to go DDR5.
> 
> I am doubting between the MSI Edge D4 and the Strix-A D4. I can get the MSI much (€40) cheaper. Which would you guys get? I will be OCing the 12900K to the max on custom water.
> 
> Speaking of custom water. My current CPU block is AMD only so will need a new one of those as well.
> 
> EK-Quantum Velocity² D-RGB - 1700 Copper + Acetal
> Any good or any different suggestions?


From personal testing of both boards, don't think it really matters for memory overclocking. I prefer the MSI because the BIOS is just so much more intuitive to use.
But you're not going to hit 4,400 on Gear 1 no matter what you do. 4,266 is the realistic max, albeit with a high VCCSA and a very highly binned IMC.
4,200 and below is probably where you'd max out in terms of an acceptable VCCSA and fully stable, regardless of timings, for both SR and DR.
Both boards will boot 4,300 on SR if the CPU IMC is good enough.
If you don't mind Gear 2 because you need the bandwidth, I noticed the Edge can boot up to 5,000 MHz on Samsung dies while the Strix could not no matter what.


----------



## dante`afk

KS = Intel is laughing all their way into the bank.


----------



## Dinnzy

Dinnzy said:


> Here’s my baby girl, ready for the disappointment;p


Only have a unify x at the moment ;p I’m going to compare my previous 5.2 all cinebench voltage for reference. My other 12900k is SP 89, 98 p, I once had an Apex 💩


----------



## fat4l

from what I can see it looks like you can compare the KS and K sp score if you do K sp rating - 10 ish..


So lets say you have 110 p core K cpu, it should be the same as 100 p core KS cpu.
115 K = 105 KS
100 k = 90 KS

and so on.

Time will tell if that is correct but it looks like it.


----------



## Ichirou

fat4l said:


> from what I can see it looks like you can compare the KS and K sp score if you do K sp rating - 10 ish..
> 
> 
> So lets say you have 110 p core K cpu, it should be the same as 100 p core KS cpu.
> 115 K = 105 KS
> 100 k = 90 KS
> 
> and so on.
> 
> Time will tell if that is correct but it looks like it.


I don't think there are too many 100+ P-core SP KSes in the wild, lmao


----------



## Xeq54

Just got mine.

SP: 87
Pcore SP: 93
Ecore SP: 77

Not great, not terrible.

Though it is much better than my SP 80 12900K. KS runs at 5,2 out of the box at around 92 degrees and 260+ watts. 12900 would barely avoid throttling at [email protected]

Might re-roll the dice, return this one and get another one as in EU I can return it no problems.


----------



## fat4l

Ichirou said:


> I don't think there are too many 100+ P-core SP KSes in the wild, lmao


The same could be said about 110+ K 

Also, from the testing I posted here it looks like that out of 183 cpus tested 1/3 is above 100(100-106)...


----------



## Mad1137

So should i change my 12900k ?? Sp 85 (P cores 93) or hold to the 13900k ?? Now i got full stable 5.2 1.35


----------



## fat4l

Mad1137 said:


> So should i change my 12900k ?? Sp 85 (P cores 93) or hold to the 13900k ?? Now i got full stable 5.2 1.35


Only you know if it's worth it 

From the OC/SP rating standpoint and from the data we have so far I believe the worst KS cpu is still better than 93 P sp K cpu so you have nothing to lose, except $$.


----------



## Mad1137

fat4l said:


> Only you know if it's worth it
> 
> From the OC/SP rating standpoint and from the data we have so far I believe the worst KS cpu is still better than 93 P sp K cpu so you have nothing to lose, except $$.


Eh .... Dont know ))) shame


----------



## Ichirou

Mad1137 said:


> So should i change my 12900k ?? Sp 85 (P cores 93) or hold to the 13900k ?? Now i got full stable 5.2 1.35


Only if you want to go above 5.2 GHz all-core. So depends entirely on your goals.
But I wouldn't recommend the KS anyway. It's a pointless price premium. Just exchange K/KFs until you get a better one.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Ichirou said:


> Only if you want to go above 5.2 GHz all-core. So depends entirely on your goals.
> But I wouldn't recommend the KS anyway. It's a pointless price premium. Just exchange K/KFs until you get a better one.


Unfortunately, my experience with binning regular 12900K CPUs in both 2021 and 2022 is that the bins were much worse in 2022. Who knows if that is due to manufacturing changes, binning for 12900KS CPUs, or both. But with the last 10ish 12900K CPUs I had in Feb and March, none were better than SP85. I quit looking as it gets expensive and time consuming. Small sample size, but sharing my experience.


----------



## Ichirou

cletus-cassidy said:


> Unfortunately, my experience with binning regular 12900K CPUs in both 2021 and 2022 is that the bins were much worse in 2022. Who knows if that is due to manufacturing changes, binning for 12900KS CPUs, or both. But with the last 10ish 12900K CPUs I had in Feb and March, none were better than SP85. I quit looking as it gets expensive and time consuming. Small sample size, but sharing my experience.


I haven't binned nearly as many as you have, but I too feel the same. it gets tiring and tedious, even if the accumulated losses are not an issue.
At this point, the best bet is hoping that some retailer has older chips (the ones with AVX-512). However, apparently, the KF offers slightly better results.


----------



## fat4l

cletus-cassidy said:


> Unfortunately, my experience with binning regular 12900K CPUs in both 2021 and 2022 is that the bins were much worse in 2022. Who knows if that is due to manufacturing changes, binning for 12900KS CPUs, or both. But with the last 10ish 12900K CPUs I had in Feb and March, none were better than SP85. I quit looking as it gets expensive and time consuming. Small sample size, but sharing my experience.


Let's be honest, Intel used V/f curves to bin for 12900KS, that's essentially what SP rating is.
To me, they picked all the 12900K with P core sp of 95-100 +, this is why you cant really find any these days.
My guess would be all the 12900K with p core SP of 95 - 120 are now 12900KS.


----------



## Ichirou

fat4l said:


> Let's be honest, Intel used V/f curves to bin for 12900KS, that's essentially what SP rating is.
> To me, they picked all the 12900K with P core sp of 95-100 +, this is why you cant really find any these days.
> My guess would be all the 12900K with p core SP of 95 - 120 are now 12900KS.


Would not be surprised at all. There's no incentive for Intel to keep producing and offering higher quality K's for sale.
The KF is probably going to be the best middle-ground, as they aren't using those for the KSes. But they'll lose AVX-512 support.


----------



## Nizzen

fat4l said:


> it lifts today guys
> 
> BTw, this is from OCUK forum from Robert896r1
> 
> 12900KS(+ some other data) binning results:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADL Binning Mew 2022 Update
> 
> 
> Info 2022 Update Motherboard: Maximus Z690 Hero BIOS 1403 RAM: 2x16GB Corsair 5600 Data collected by Bullshooter, Sergmann, DaGunzi and quiekMew thanks to gunzi for entering the 2022 numbers from paper :) For 2021: Motherboard: Maximus Z690 Hero BIOS 0803 RAM: 1x16GB Micron ES Data collected by ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docs.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 12900KS
> average P core sp 97.7
> 
> min p core sp - 88
> max p core sp - 106
> 
> min total sp - 84
> max total sp - 99


Max 106 is a bit low i think  No upgrade for me


----------



## fat4l

Nizzen said:


> Max 106 is a bit low i think  No upgrade for me


Whats your P core rating then ?

Bear in mind sp rating for KS and K is not directly comparable so .... 106 KS is more likely 116 K rating


----------



## Nizzen

fat4l said:


> Whats your rating then ?
> 
> Bear in mind sp rating for KS and K is not directly comparable so .... 106 KS is more likely 116 K rating


P108 normal 12900k


----------



## Nizzen

fat4l said:


> from what I can see it looks like you can compare the KS and K sp score if you do K sp rating - 10 ish..
> 
> 
> So lets say you have 110 p core K cpu, it should be the same as 100 p core KS cpu.
> 115 K = 105 KS
> 100 k = 90 KS
> 
> and so on.
> 
> Time will tell if that is correct but it looks like it.


5.3ghz all core should be under easy 1.2v if that stand right ?


----------



## fat4l

Nizzen said:


> P108 normal 12900k


 That is pretty good K cpu.
In terms of KS that is average KS but on the other hand you can buy a KS and end up with even worse CPU  ye don't risk it hha

btw that's pretty similar to what der8auer has and he compated it to 3 KS cpus(the KS cpus he has are rather below average):


----------



## fat4l

Nizzen said:


> 5.3ghz all core should be under easy 1.2v if that stand right ?


well not sure if under 1.2v but below 1.25v for top KS should be doable (CB stable)

Here is what der8auer achieved, really depends on the chip and leakege(hotter cpus seems to OC better).
SP p cores - 1st - 105, 2nd - 89, 3rd - 93(103ish), 4th - 92(102ish) , 5th - 94(104 ish).

(His KSs are below the average so ....not that great)


----------



## nickolp1974

not for me, mines at about 1.34v LLC4 R23. Huge jump between 5.2 & 3, about 1.23v for 5.2


----------



## HyperMatrix

fat4l said:


> Whats your P core rating then ?
> 
> *Bear in mind sp rating for KS and K is not directly comparable *so .... 106 KS is more likely 116 K rating


What are you basing this on? Looking at Der8auer's video we're seeing the SP97 K use less voltage than the SP 86-88 KS, while the SP80 K used more voltage for the same 5GHz clock. The same pattern continued with their max clocks at 5.2/5.3GHz.


----------



## fat4l

HyperMatrix said:


> What are you basing this on? Looking at Der8auer's video we're seeing the SP97 K use less voltage than the SP 86-88 KS, while the SP80 K used more voltage for the same 5GHz clock.


dont look at SP, look at P core SP. Second of all it's just generalisation, every chip is different, depends on leakage etc, plus best K were in the neighbourhood of around 115 so the formula applies the best to the best chips...


----------



## HyperMatrix

fat4l said:


> dont look at SP, look at P core SP. Second of all it's just generalisation, every chip is different, depends on leakage etc...


Yes I'm aware. And my statement still stands. Where are you seeing numbers that would indicate the KS models SP rating is worth 10 more when compared to the K model? I'm not seeing anything anywhere to back that up.


----------



## fat4l

HyperMatrix said:


> Yes I'm aware. And my statement still stands. Where are you seeing numbers that would indicate the KS models SP rating is worth 10 more when compared to the K model? I'm not seeing anything anywhere to back that up.


So what are you yourself seeing then ?


----------



## Lord Alzov

fat4l said:


> Let's be honest, Intel used V/f curves to bin for 12900KS, that's essentially what SP rating is.
> To me, they picked all the 12900K with P core sp of 95-100 +, this is why you cant really find any these days.
> My guess would be all the 12900K with p core SP of 95 - 120 are now 12900KS.


This is a lie, 95-100+SP K and KF still come across


----------



## Lord Alzov

fat4l said:


> from what I can see it looks like you can compare the KS and K sp score if you do K sp rating - 10 ish..
> 
> 
> So lets say you have 110 p core K cpu, it should be the same as 100 p core KS cpu.
> 115 K = 105 KS
> 100 k = 90 KS
> 
> and so on.
> 
> Time will tell if that is correct but it looks like it.


My SP 93 KF can STRESS TEST 5400 all core 4200 e core 4400 cache 1.296v on LOAD what about your KS? 5500 all core can? Or 5400 low :?


----------



## Gadfly

Nizzen said:


> All we care about is the SP rating on the cpu and if it can run 7000+ memory  Overclock on the cpu, is pretty dead anyway. Memory OC is where gaming performance is
> 
> Running 5ghz all core on very low "voltage" and max the memory tweaking. That's pretty much meta now


Ehhh.. is it though? Assuming that your GPU is not the bottleneck, you will most likely get better game performance at 6200-1T with tighter timings than you would at 7000-2T; and even then the difference between 6400C30 2T and 7000C30 2T in games will be what? 1%-2%... at most? Even if you are one of the very few people who can tell a visual difference between 80 and 120 fps, does it really make a difference?


----------



## david12900k

Just got my 12900KS delivered. 
Made in China, Batch Number: V203H870
Have we heard anything about good/bad batches and if Vietnam made ones are better?


----------



## HyperMatrix

fat4l said:


> So what are you yourself seeing then ?


I'm not seeing the KS doing anything my KF can't do. I'd take a 116 SP K/KF over a 106 SP KS. Because your numbers make no sense.


----------



## fat4l

HyperMatrix said:


> I'm not seeing the KS doing anything my KF can't do. I'd take a 116 SP K/KF over a 106 SP KS. Because your numbers make no sense.


whats your P core sp?
If you have a high P core sp,I would say 105+ then KS wont do much.... It's jsut a better binned K


----------



## Lord Alzov

fat4l said:


> whats your P core sp?
> If you have a high P core sp,I would say 105+ then KS wont do much.... It's jsut a better binned K


SP 93 P core 103


----------



## HyperMatrix

fat4l said:


> whats your P core sp?
> If you have a high P core sp,I would say 105+ then KS wont do much.... It's jsut a better binned K


107. I know the KS is just a binned K/KF. But you were claiming that P core SP of 97 on the KS was the same as 107 on the K/KF. And again - I haven't seen anything anywhere that would suggest that.


----------



## fat4l

HyperMatrix said:


> 107. I know the KS is just a binned K/KF. But you were claiming that P core SP of 97 on the KS was the same as 107 on the K/KF. And again - I haven't seen anything anywhere that would suggest that.


lets be honest.. 107 is a pretty good bin for K chip. Roman paid 1.4K euro for 105 bin so... Did you bin it or luck of a draw?
I've got 100 p core KS, will be testing tomorrow.
You can run your chip in CB R20, and what's the lowest load volts you need for 5.2G and 5.3G all core , 1 x pass. I won't touch ecores or anything else. I'm myself looking forward to see the results. Just post them here once ready...


----------



## HyperMatrix

fat4l said:


> lets be honest.. 107 is a pretty good bin for K chip. Roman paid 1.4K euro for 105 bin so... Did you bin it or luck of a draw?
> I've got 100 p core KS, will be testing tomorrow.
> You can run your chip in CB R20, and what's the lowest load volts you need for 5.2G and 5.3G all core , 1 x pass. I won't touch ecores or anything else. I'm myself looking forward to see the results. Just post them here once ready...


I haven't done individual P core testing but I use manually set 1.38v LL6 for All-Core 5.3GHz P core 4.3GHz E core and either 4.5 or 4.6GHz cache for daily 24/7. That scores 31k in CB R23. 2 of the P cores are 1.279v vid and can do 5.7GHz for 2 core loads and can hit 5.4GHz all core with higher voltage, but too much heat that I wouldn't care to do without delidding.

I had bought 3 chips to start binning but got this one on first try. Originally had a chinese cpu. Went back to the store and asked them to exchange it for one made in Vietnam if they had one. And that was the winner right there.

Based on your SP theory, you should be able to outclock my chip since your SP 100 KS is really like an SP 110 K/KF.


----------



## fat4l

HyperMatrix said:


> Based on your SP theory, you should be able to outclock my chip since your SP 100 KS is really like an SP 110 K/KF.


We will see about that tomorrow 

But if you wont provide load voltage numbers then it's quite pointless I guess.
LIke I said....Ill be testing
R20, 1x pass
aida64 vcore under load
5.2 and 5.3G


----------



## Falkentyne

HyperMatrix said:


> I'm not seeing the KS doing anything my KF can't do. I'd take a 116 SP K/KF over a 106 SP KS. Because your numbers make no sense.


I'd take a 116 SP K/KF (does anyone even have one above 115 SP? I thought the world record SP is lower than that) over a 106 SP KS any day, because at least I get AVX 512 on it.
Safedisk posted some AVX 512 shots on his 12900KS, but he's had that chip for months. That's clearly an early sample chip, before the fuses were completely cut (e.g. before the announcement that Intel would disable it permanently).

I've seen a grand total of zero people with a retail 12900KS with AVX 512 enabled with E cores disabled. And I think that number is going to remain at zero, and any screenshots of it "enabled" are going to be meme troll photoshop jobs by people trying to be popular on the internet...


----------



## sniperpowa

Got my ks sp 97 pcore 78 e core.


----------



## HyperMatrix

Falkentyne said:


> I'd take a 116 SP K/KF (does anyone even have one above 115 SP? I thought the world record SP is lower than that) over a 106 SP KS any day, because at least I get AVX 512 on it.
> Safedisk posted some AVX 512 shots on his 12900KS, but he's had that chip for months. That's clearly an early sample chip, before the fuses were completely cut (e.g. before the announcement that Intel would disable it permanently)


Joker up top was saying that the 106 SP KS was like a 116 SP K. Hence the reference. Haha.


----------



## Falkentyne

HyperMatrix said:


> Joker up top was saying that the 106 SP KS was like a 116 SP K. Hence the reference. Haha.
> 
> View attachment 2554843


The reason why the KS has such a low SP rating is because of the 5.2 ghz VID.
The 5.2 ghz VID is higher than most K chips' 5.2 ghz VID. But on the KS, there are more points, 5.3, and 5.5 ghz, which have the same VID as 5.2 ghz. That throws off the calculation. And two VID points below 4800 mhz are missing.

That being said, I still stand by my conclusion: The worst 12900KS chips should be equal to average 12900K chips. So 100% of them should be able to run R20/R23 at 5.2 ghz on all cores, below 1.30v die sense load voltage easily.


----------



## Gargas

david12900k said:


> Just got my 12900KS delivered.
> Made in China, Batch Number: V203H870
> Have we heard anything about good/bad batches and if Vietnam made ones are better?


In my case Chinese is "fine" however it is not a KS.
12900K sp102 (Pcore sp111, Ecore sp85.)
Running daily stable 5.4p / 4.3e / 4.5 ring.
1.341-1.35 load voltage (Strix F socket sense) when running Stockfish or CB23(31128pts).


----------



## WebsterRKL

Falkentyne said:


> The reason why the KS has such a low SP rating is because of the 5.2 ghz VID.
> The 5.2 ghz VID is higher than most K chips' 5.2 ghz VID. But on the KS, there are more points, 5.3, and 5.5 ghz, which have the same VID as 5.2 ghz. That throws off the calculation. And two VID points below 4800 mhz are missing.
> 
> That being said, I still stand by my conclusion: The worst 12900KS chips should be equal to average 12900K chips. So 100% of them should be able to run R20/R23 at 5.2 ghz on all cores, below 1.30v die sense load voltage easily.


Finally, someone said it. 

Will Asus Maximus Apex bios updates for the 12900KS address the calculation/calibration delta and KS SP differential?


----------



## fat4l

Just a reminder ....... 1 1 8 p core sp (not my chip)


----------



## jomama22

For the testing that has been done, it's pretty clear sp rating partially meaningless except for far below or above the average. In derbaur's tests, two of the three KS's perform more or less the same as an 80 p core sp rated K chips at higher clock/temp ranges. 

What the tests really show is that sp rating really only starts to show some merit at low temp ranges. So really, you have to have to cooling first and foremost. Anything above 75* looping R23 is going to see a hard hit to clocks, no matter the SP score. An example of this is just looking at the tests before and after with a direct die block. Igor's lab was able to pull +275mhz from merely cooling the chip an extra 17*, allowing for high voltage levels while also reducing the needed voltage for a give clock speed.

Really, SP is pretty meaningless. You have to bench the chip to really have any idea what clocks and voltages it will run. I guess it's a fun game of trying to measure e-peen or something.


----------



## fat4l

Falkentyne said:


> To fix the SP:
> 1) USB Flashback an older BIOS (1100 series should work fine, but some people who had SP bug on regular chips said you had to go back to an even older version).
> 2) Post and let it do its thing.
> 3) Power off and reflash the latest BIOS with flashback.
> 
> That should fix the SP.


btw is the SP bug present on the newest bios 1403? or how do we know SP is reading "right" ?* cletus-cassidy's *SP dropped a lot after some reflashing...


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

I got my 12900KS X203 bin.

I'm on an evga dark board so no SP rating and it's hard to know how good my chip is. Can pass Cinebench at 5.4 GHz at 1.23V (1.20V VR VOUT in hwinfo64) under load. E cores at 4.3 and cache at 45 (haven't tried higher). My chip seems pretty good but it won't do 5.5 even with 1.31V (measured under load). Going any higher on voltage causes a few cores to hit 90C and it crashes. Increasing voltage further to 1.27V+ only lets my E cores hit an extra 100 MHz to 4.4 GHz and 2 of my P cores will do 5.5 at around 1.3V.

Core 1 and 7 will do 5.5 with other pcores at 5.4 GHz and e cores will do 4.4 GHz at 1.28V (again measured under load).

Has anyone done testing for cinebench scaling?


----------



## Falkentyne

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> I got my 12900KS X203 bin.
> 
> I'm on an evga dark board so no SP rating and it's hard to know how good my chip is. Can pass Cinebench at 5.4 GHz at 1.23V (1.20V VR VOUT in hwinfo64) under load. E cores at 4.3 and cache at 45 (haven't tried higher). My chip seems pretty good but it won't do 5.5 even with 1.31V (measured under load). Going any higher on voltage causes a few cores to hit 90C and it crashes. Increasing voltage further to 1.27V+ only lets my E cores hit an extra 100 MHz to 4.4 GHz and 2 of my P cores will do 5.5 at around 1.3V.
> 
> Core 1 and 7 will do 5.5 with other pcores at 5.4 GHz and e cores will do 4.4 GHz at 1.28V (again measured under load).
> 
> Has anyone done testing for cinebench scaling?
> View attachment 2554859


5.4 R20/R23 on all cores is a lottery winner. Good job.
Can you do R15 though?


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Decided to do an all out run. 101 BCLK 5.45 GHz with e cores at 4.35 GHz. Im pretty happy with this for just 21C ambient temps!


----------



## borant

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> I got my 12900KS X203 bin.
> 
> I'm on an evga dark board so no SP rating and it's hard to know how good my chip is. Can pass Cinebench at 5.4 GHz at 1.23V (1.20V VR VOUT in hwinfo64) under load. E cores at 4.3 and cache at 45 (haven't tried higher). My chip seems pretty good but it won't do 5.5 even with 1.31V (measured under load). Going any higher on voltage causes a few cores to hit 90C and it crashes. Increasing voltage further to 1.27V+ only lets my E cores hit an extra 100 MHz to 4.4 GHz and 2 of my P cores will do 5.5 at around 1.3V.
> 
> Core 1 and 7 will do 5.5 with other pcores at 5.4 GHz and e cores will do 4.4 GHz at 1.28V (again measured under load).
> 
> Has anyone done testing for cinebench scaling?


It seems like most US retailers sell V batch. Where did you get X batch from? Is it boxed or tray version?


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

borant said:


> It seems like most US retailers sell V batch. Where did you get X batch from? Is it boxed or tray version?


Got it from newegg. Retail box version.


----------



## morph.

My "SP84" 12900k seems pretty strong Pcore 95 & Ecore 62 shame my e core quality is letting me down a fair bit. Risky to throw down for a 12900ks as I'm running adaptive OC/boost up to 5.6ghz without issue and all core load sits around 5.3ghz... thoughts? Plus I finally got the gskill skhynix 6400 kit on order should arrive next week to replace my Sammy dimms.


----------



## morph.

fat4l said:


> Whats your P core rating then ?
> 
> Bear in mind sp rating for KS and K is not directly comparable so .... 106 KS is more likely 116 K rating


You keep saying this in this thread what basis do you have to substantiate it exactly? From a Stock standard POV I get it as the power limits are different and p0 is diffrent.

However if they both can OC up to the same OC e.g. 55x or 56x I don't see how performance would be different?


----------



## satinghostrider

morph. said:


> My "SP84" 12900k seems pretty strong Pcore 95 & Ecore 62 shame my e core quality is letting me down a fair bit. Risky to throw down for a 12900ks as I'm running adaptive OC/boost up to 5.6ghz without issue and all core load sits around 5.3ghz... thoughts? Plus I finally got the gskill skhynix 6400 kit on order should arrive next week to replace my Sammy dimms.
> 
> View attachment 2554876
> 
> 
> View attachment 2554877


I'm also having SP84 but it's 92 P-Core and 69 E-Core. Running 5.5 single core with OCTVB +2. In game is consistently 5.2-5.3. Pretty happy with it.


----------



## morph.

BelowAverageIQ said:


> So far my KS can do 5.2Ghz all cores at 1.250v max package temp is 76 degrees = R15 pass
> 
> 5.3Ghz all core at 1.250v = BSOD
> 
> 5.3Ghz all core at 1.300v = R15 freezes
> 
> 5.3Ghz all core at 1.305 = R15 error
> 
> 5.3Ghz all core at 1.310 = R15 display artifacts, passes, package temp = 85 degrees
> 
> 5.3Ghz all core at 1.315 = R15 passes, package temp = 85 degrees
> 
> Bios set voltage (actual VRM Core Voltage now named in bios 1403)
> LLC 7


your LLC looks overly high tbh, LLC4 or 5 is pretty sufficient with 12th gen.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Just tested P95. 5.3 GHz at 1.24V is the best I can get stable. Hottest core around 84C 5.4 just gets too hot and crashes .


----------



## Falkentyne

morph. said:


> My "SP84" 12900k seems pretty strong Pcore 95 & Ecore 62 shame my e core quality is letting me down a fair bit. Risky to throw down for a 12900ks as I'm running adaptive OC/boost up to 5.6ghz without issue and all core load sits around 5.3ghz... thoughts? Plus I finally got the gskill skhynix 6400 kit on order should arrive next week to replace my Sammy dimms.
> 
> View attachment 2554876
> 
> 
> View attachment 2554877


Why not wait for 13900k? You get 16 E-cores and very likely the same P core all core clocks that the 12900KS can do.
History already shows this to be a safe prediction. And you can bet your buns it will cost less than a 12900KS.

8086K=9900K all core OC (except for very bad samples and a rare or two defective chips that were not even stable at 4.8 ghz all core, like that one guys chip in the 9900k thread, Pallin or something?)

9900KS=10900K (even better. The worst 10900K's could do 5 ghz all core, only limited by vcore).


----------



## morph.

Falkentyne said:


> Why not wait for 13900k? You get 16 E-cores and very likely the same P core all core clocks that the 12900KS can do.
> History already shows this to be a safe prediction. And you can bet your buns it will cost less than a 12900KS.
> 
> 8086K=9900K all core OC (except for very bad samples and a rare or two defective chips that were not even stable at 4.8 ghz all core, like that one guys chip in the 9900k thread, Pallin or something?)
> 
> 9900KS=10900K (even better. The worst 10900K's could do 5 ghz all core, only limited by vcore).


Yeah, perhaps that is the path forward as long as I can still use my motherboard they are far too expensive these days to upgrade together with the cpu...


----------



## bigfootnz

Another average 12900ks SP90 P95 and E80. This was just quick SP check with Asus Strix Z690-A D4. There is slight possibility that SP reading is maybe incorrect due to Strix Z690-A having only 1304 BIOS and not new ones 1403. Later on I'll test min voltages for CB R20/23 and see how good this CPU is real


----------



## nickolp1974

everyones testing using various settings could someone suggest a specific set of figures and benchmark so that we can all get a clearer picture on this


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

nickolp1974 said:


> everyones testing using various settings could someone suggest a specific set of figures and benchmark so that we can all get a clearer picture on this


I just ran cinebench. Tested lowest stable voltage it would pass for 5.2 GHz, 5.3 GHz, and 5.4 GHz. Then did an all out bench. I'm open to rerunning as some sort of standardized benchmark comparison.


----------



## nickolp1974

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> I just ran cinebench. Tested lowest stable voltage it would pass for 5.2 GHz, 5.3 GHz, and 5.4 GHz. Then did an all out bench. I'm open to rerunning as some sort of standardized benchmark comparison.


I just wasn't sure on differing LLC on various boards, i presume most Asus users would use LLC 4??

cinebench R23?
Memory totally stock?
E cores 40?
cache 40?
Lowest volts at 5.2g with max power draw and max temp and load volt?
max achievable all core clock volts/power/temps??
All other setting auto???
State cooling used


----------



## nickolp1974

nickolp1974 said:


> I just wasn't sure on differing LLC on various boards, i presume most Asus users would use LLC 4??
> 
> cinebench R23?
> Memory totally stock?
> E cores 40?
> cache 40?
> Lowest volts at 5.2g with max power draw and max temp and load volt?
> max achievable all core clock volts/power/temps??
> All other setting auto???
> State cooling used


as above settings LLC4 52/40/40/4800 1.29v bios set voltage die sense **(bios is saying i need 1.363v for x52)
360 AIO Lian Li galahad












5300mhz 1.38v bios set


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

nickolp1974 said:


> I just wasn't sure on differing LLC on various boards, i presume most Asus users would use LLC 4??
> 
> cinebench R23?
> Memory totally stock?
> E cores 40?
> cache 40?
> Lowest volts at 5.2g with max power draw and max temp and load volt?
> max achievable all core clock volts/power/temps??
> All other setting auto???
> State cooling used


Cinebench R23
Z690 Dark Beta Bios .50
P cores 5.4
E cores 4.3
Cache 4.5
Lowest volts for cinebench at 5.4 GHz 1.23V (under load voltage) llc -75% which is basically flat.
Temps are high 60s to low 70s on a large custom loop with Optimus signature v2.
Memory 7000 MHz 32-39-39 1T


----------



## Nizzen

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Cinebench R23
> Z690 Dark Beta Bios .50
> P cores 5.4
> E cores 4.3
> Cache 4.5
> Lowest volts for cinebench at 5.4 GHz 1.23V (under load voltage) llc -75% which is basically flat.
> Temps are high 60s to low 70s on a large custom loop with Optimus signature v2.
> Memory 7000 MHz 32-39-39 1T


Looks pretty good 
Prebinned? Do you know SP?


----------



## nickolp1974

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Cinebench R23
> Z690 Dark Beta Bios .50
> P cores 5.4
> E cores 4.3
> Cache 4.5
> Lowest volts for cinebench at 5.4 GHz 1.23V (under load voltage) llc -75% which is basically flat.
> Temps are high 60s to low 70s on a large custom loop with Optimus signature v2.
> Memory 7000 MHz 32-39-39 1T


nice volts for 5.4

im currently testing 5.4, started 1.46v bios, crash 1.47v runs and gets half way through before crash now at 1.51v and still crashes at the same point, does not seem right?? temp until crash 88c


----------



## BelowAverageIQ

Well I bought another KS. Different retailer and different batch number. Still a V batch though.

As you know how upset I was getting an SP84............

New one is SP85 

I just cant believe how unlucky I am. Like seriously.

And to top it off, this SP85 with exact same ambient and idle temps is 5 degrees hotter when benching.

***.


----------



## nickolp1974

BelowAverageIQ said:


> Well I bought another KS. Different retailer and different batch number. Still a V batch though.
> 
> As you know how upset I was getting an SP84............
> 
> New one is SP85
> 
> I just cant believe how unlucky I am. Like seriously.
> 
> And to top it off, this SP85 with exact same ambient and idle temps is 5 degrees hotter when benching.
> 
> ***.


that is unlucky surely to get 2 of the lowest KS, shocking to be fair


----------



## bscool

On Asus I would reflash bios if checking sp. I have had the sp stuck from previous CPU. Even clearing cmos was showing old CPU SP scores.

I don't remember if it was strix d4 or apex that did it for me on z690. Edit pretty sure it was on the strix that I had that happen. Apex sp changed when switching CPUs. But something to keep in mind.


----------



## BelowAverageIQ

This SP85 is a dog compared to the SP84. The SP84 can easily do 5.3Ghz all P core and 4.0Ghz all E core with a minus offset of 0.0500v in both r15 and r23. 

This SP85 cant even do that and is 5-8 degrees hotter with same ambient. Wow. My processor life officially sucks hard core donkey d%^k.


----------



## fat4l

BelowAverageIQ said:


> This SP85 is a dog compared to the SP84. The SP84 can easily do 5.3Ghz all P core and 4.0Ghz all E core with a minus offset of 0.0500v in both r15 and r23.
> 
> This SP85 cant even do that and is 5-8 degrees hotter with same ambient. Wow. My processor life officially sucks hard core donkey d%^k.


 that's sad.


btw do you have any screens of sp ratings and vids ? are you on the newest 1403 bios ?


----------



## ThinbinJim

Falkentyne said:


> I'd take a 116 SP K/KF (does anyone even have one above 115 SP? I thought the world record SP is lower than that) over a 106 SP KS any day, because at least I get AVX 512 on it.
> Safedisk posted some AVX 512 shots on his 12900KS, but he's had that chip for months. That's clearly an early sample chip, before the fuses were completely cut (e.g. before the announcement that Intel would disable it permanently).
> 
> I've seen a grand total of zero people with a retail 12900KS with AVX 512 enabled with E cores disabled. And I think that number is going to remain at zero, and any screenshots of it "enabled" are going to be meme troll photoshop jobs by people trying to be popular on the internet...


@nickolp1974 has a really early production run X141 12900KS chip 
If he's really lucky, he might have one that doesn't have avx512 fused off.


----------



## BelowAverageIQ

fat4l said:


> btw do you have any screens of sp ratings and vids ? are you on the newest 1403 bios ?


Not yet mate, will try to get some tonight. This SP85 is bad. Same cooling, same ambient. It can only go to 5.2Ghz and 3 cores hit 100c that is NOT KS material. At best K or 12700K. Now I am REALLY pissed.


----------



## bigfootnz

Tonight I done quick CB 20/23 testing. It was done on Strix Z690-A D4 which do not have die sense reading.

First I've used 12900k SP84 P94 E64. I've set up clocks P-5.2, E-4.0 and ring 4.1. I was trying to pass CB 23, but even on 1.42 LLC6 setup in bios, this CPU was not able to pass CB 23. After that I've tried on 1.42V to drop E cores to 3.7 and ring to 3.9 but again has failed. It obvious that this CPU cannot run 5.2GHz with normal voltage.









Next I've put 12900ks SP90 P95 E80. This cpu has almost same P cores but much better E core, at least by the BIOS reading. I think that for the first time I got really good CPU. I was able to run *5.2/4.0/4.1 on 1.23V LLC6 set in BIOS*. I was shock that this CPU was able to run on such low voltage. Probably this 1.23V in BIOS is something 1.1V-1.15V die sense.









My 12900kf which I've in my current rig with SP89, P96 and E75 maybe can run 5.1 on same voltage but even that is questionable.

I'm not sure is this current SP rating on 12900ks is stuffed but I would suggest to all 12900ks owners do not measure your CPU by SP but do your own testing.

Tomorrow I'll do more testing with 5.3 and maybe even 5.4 if I'm lucky.


----------



## bigfootnz

BelowAverageIQ said:


> Not yet mate, will try to get some tonight. This SP85 is bad. Same cooling, same ambient. It can only go to 5.2Ghz and 3 cores hit 100c that is NOT KS material. At best K or 12700K. Now I am REALLY pissed.


Just try, same what I did with my CPU. Set 5.2/4.0/4.1 and with LLC6 try what is lowest voltage on which you can pass CB 20/23. That can be quick measurement of your CPU bin.


----------



## SuperMumrik

domdtxdissar said:


> Could you do more of the other game benches ?


We might need a dedicated thread at this point, but I just got Horzion Zero Dawn (your fault, but it's a good game )
I took the liberty to add CB2077 as well since it just got a canned ingame benchmark. Could you do a re-run of FarCry6 so we got matching versions?









Horizon Zero Dawn 1080p, performance preset, 50% res scale








Cyberpunk 2077, 1080p Low preset


----------



## BelowAverageIQ

Here are some screen shots. Note the voltage for stock. 1.447v at LLC3. This SP85 needs to go in the bin. I am so angry. Makes my SP84 look like a golden sample.


----------



## murkok5

.
Salute !!! What do you think it is worth changing such a 12900k version of the COP?
Several game tests.


----------



## domdtxdissar

SuperMumrik said:


> We might need a dedicated thread at this point, but I just got Horzion Zero Dawn (your fault, but it's a good game )
> I took the liberty to add CB2077 as well since it just got a canned ingame benchmark. Could you do a re-run of FarCry6 so we got matching versions?
> 
> View attachment 2554925
> 
> Horizon Zero Dawn 1080p, performance preset, 50% res scale
> View attachment 2554926
> 
> Cyberpunk 2077, 1080p Low preset


Yeah it seems like we have totally different versions of Horizon Zero Dawn also.. i benched with v1.56 vs yours v1.81

So it seems like i need to update all my game benches, just waiting for other 14m EK-Tube ZMT so i can complete my "stage two" mo-ra3 cooling loop before i give it a go 
Stage one:


http://imgur.com/a/rlI8N18


----------



## nickolp1974

ThinbinJim said:


> @nickolp1974 has a really early production run X141 12900KS chip
> If he's really lucky, he might have one that doesn't have avx512 fused off.


thought i'd check this, just tried to flash 1304 with the microcode 15 and now the bios light is just flashing constant, do i wait?????


----------



## SuperMumrik

domdtxdissar said:


> So it seems like i need to update all my game benches, just waiting for other 14m EK-Tube ZMT so i can complete my "stage two" mo-ra3 cooling loop before i give it a go
> Stage one:


What is stage two? 
I liked the sandwitched rad on back of the mora. I might copy that since I got some spare rads after going mora


----------



## nickolp1974

ThinbinJim said:


> @nickolp1974 has a really early production run X141 12900KS chip
> If he's really lucky, he might have one that doesn't have avx512 fused off.



Right gone back from 1403 to 1303 with the 15 microcode and i have no AVX512 support, but here are screens from bios, all voltages and SP's are totally different.

















and 1403


----------



## fat4l

nickolp1974 said:


> Right gone back from 1403 to 1303 with the 15 microcode and i have no AVX512 support, but here are screens from bios, all voltages and SP's are totally different.


The difference is quite interesting mate and strange as well.
Mine says 100P core on 1403 , I never tested on 1303 or any other. They said 1403 is optimized fot 12900KS so idk what to believe now 



BTW my mora 3 420 with 8x bitfenix spectre pro led "230mm"(200 in reality) here:


----------



## domdtxdissar

SuperMumrik said:


> What is stage two?
> I liked the sandwitched rad on back of the mora. I might copy that since I got some spare rads after going mora


Stage one is mo-ra3 420 and 2x6m tubing with quick connects so i can put the radiator on a different floor..
"Standalone" unit consist of radiator + integrated PSU with one on/off switch and two DDC waterpumps on the inlet and outlets mounted on the mo-ra   Not so pretty to look at, but the temps are pretty good.
The tubing is connected to the rest of my loop with leak-proof quick-connects so its easy to service/upgrade this setup at a later stange 

Stage two:
After this upgrade i had a spare Monsta Full Copper 400mm laying around which i plan to use for a separate loop for sub ambient benchmarking with its own quick-connects.
Spring water is pretty much always ~2-5 degrees in northern Norway, even in the summertime and its abundant so i dont need to feel bad about "wasting" clean drinking water

When i want to bench something i will simply disconnect/bypass the mo-ra3 radiator itself and connect the monsta rad instead, which will be left under running spring-water to cool down the rest of my loop😇
Should work the same way as putting a rad inside a "ice water bucket", only that i control how cold springwater i use to avoid condensation inside the computer.
(main watercooling loop inside computer consist of dual d5 pumps, cpu+gpu block and a 70mm thick 360mm rad in push/pull)

With everything running i have 4 waterpumps in series and should have headpressure for days, even when when running this long ~2x10m tubing to a different floor


----------



## nickolp1974

Right who knows there stuff??/

I just cant get R23 to pass at 5.4ghz i'm within temps, it gets half way through and crashes i have added an additional 80mv in 10mv intervals and still crash, it is pulling 427w!!! i only have a lowly corsair rm850x psu could this be the cause?? what kinda amps will it be pulling???

pulls 240w at 5.3 isn't that a big jump to 427w at 5.4??


----------



## Falkentyne

BelowAverageIQ said:


> This SP85 is a dog compared to the SP84. The SP84 can easily do 5.3Ghz all P core and 4.0Ghz all E core with a minus offset of 0.0500v in both r15 and r23.
> 
> This SP85 cant even do that and is 5-8 degrees hotter with same ambient. Wow. My processor life officially sucks hard core donkey d%^k.


I told you earlier that your SP84 KS is a decent chip. Not a winner but good (above average) on a "K" chip scale.. But you ignored me and wasted your money and you spent another $800 buying a true loser chip  You should have listened and kept the SP84 and enjoyed it, instead of comparing yourself to lucky people with lottery winners....


----------



## fat4l

Ok quick test of my chip.
P core SP 100.
12900KS, X chip, Vietnam.
Bios 1403

CB R20 pass, 1.23V LLC6, it was showing 1.199V under load (My board is Asus STRIX Z690-I GAMING WIFI so I guess no die sense)
For R23 and R15 I needed 1.25V bios LLC6.
That's 5.2G.

No time for now to test any further.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Nizzen said:


> Looks pretty good
> Prebinned? Do you know SP?


No this was just a retail chip from newegg. Batch X203*****. I didn't expect it to be good at all after seeing the manufacturing date. I almost returned it without opening. I'm glad I didnt lmao!


----------



## fat4l

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> No this was just a retail chip from newegg. Batch X203*****. I didn't expect it to be good at all after seeing the manufacturing date. I almost returned it without opening. I'm glad I didnt lmao!


DO you have CB 5.2 and 5.3G results ? (R20 and R23) ? Bios volts + LLC setting and what voltage it shows under load pls in hwinfo lets say. and what bios(1403?) youre running and SP photo?


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

I don't have an Asus motherboard. I'm running an EVGA Dark Z690. My minimum R20 voltage for 5.4 (w/ e cores enabled is 1.23V under load) I use a flat llc so idle and load voltages are the same. VR VOUT on hwinfo shows 1.194-1.206V during the run. 

I tested 5.2 as low as 1.125V. I did not test lower. But it'll pass r20 repeatedly at that voltage.

I did p95 testing and it passes small FFTs at 5.3 GHz 1.24V. 

Sorry I can try more tests in a few days if you want. Been super busy with life so benching times are hard to come by.


----------



## fat4l

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> I don't have an Asus motherboard. I'm running an EVGA Dark Z690. My minimum R20 voltage for 5.4 (w/ e cores enabled is 1.23V under load) I use a flat llc so idle and load voltages are the same. VR VOUT on hwinfo shows 1.194-1.206V during the run.
> 
> I tested 5.2 as low as 1.125V. I did not test lower. But it'll pass r20 repeatedly at that voltage.
> 
> I did p95 testing and it passes small FFTs at 5.3 GHz 1.24V.
> 
> Sorry I can try more tests in a few days if you want. Been super busy with life so benching times are hard to come by.


this sounds like a really good chip


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Yeah I have my friend sending me my SP 93 (103P core) 12900K so ill have a known quantity to compare it against. I wonder if it's partially the motherboard as I have 2 friends who both have the same motherboard as me and both of them are also running 5.4 on R20 (admittedly I do not know their voltages or temps). I've never known motherboard to make much of a difference in the past for cpu core overclocking but it's either that or all 3 of us lucked out on our KS chips. We all have different batches, and got them from different retailers so I'm not sure

Is there any sort of binning chart to see where chips are capable of doing? I only see people posting SP ratings which doesn't tell me anything worthwhile since I can't directly compare.


----------



## Catsonar

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> I don't have an Asus motherboard. I'm running an EVGA Dark Z690. My minimum R20 voltage for 5.4 (w/ e cores enabled is 1.23V under load) I use a flat llc so idle and load voltages are the same. VR VOUT on hwinfo shows 1.194-1.206V during the run.
> 
> I tested 5.2 as low as 1.125V. I did not test lower. But it'll pass r20 repeatedly at that voltage.
> 
> I did p95 testing and it passes small FFTs at 5.3 GHz 1.24V.
> 
> Sorry I can try more tests in a few days if you want. Been super busy with life so benching times are hard to come by.


What SP rating are we talking here? What temps did you do this with?


----------



## bigfootnz

Before going to work I done quick test 5.3/4.0/4.1 which has passed CB 23/20 at 1.28v LLC6 bios set. Temperature was mid 70s with 230W on Corsair H115i platinum. Later on when I'm back home I'll try 5.4GHz.

@nickolp1974 & @fat4l 
What I can see that my CPU is quite similar like your ones. But my SP rating is much lower. I would really appreciate if you can test what is minimum voltage needed to pass CB 23/20 for 5.2/4.0/4.1, 5.3/4.0/4.1 and if you can 5.4/4.0/4.1 using LLC6. If you have only results with lower/higher LLC that is fine as I can redo my tests.


----------



## nickolp1974

bigfootnz said:


> Before going to work I done quick test 5.3/4.0/4.1 which has passed CB 23/20 at 1.28v LLC6 bios set. Temperature was mid 70s with 230W on Corsair H115i platinum. Later on when I'm back home I'll try 5.4GHz.
> 
> @nickolp1974 & @fat4l
> What I can see that my CPU is quite similar like your ones. But my SP rating is much lower. I would really appreciate if you can test what is minimum voltage needed to pass CB 23/20 for 5.2/4.0/4.1, 5.3/4.0/4.1 and if you can 5.4/4.0/4.1 using LLC6. If you have only results with lower/higher LLC that is fine as I can redo my tests.











Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion


It seems like most US retailers sell V batch. Where did you get X batch from? Is it boxed or tray version? Got it from newegg. Retail box version.




www.overclock.net


----------



## bigfootnz

nickolp1974 said:


> Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion
> 
> 
> It seems like most US retailers sell V batch. Where did you get X batch from? Is it boxed or tray version? Got it from newegg. Retail box version.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Thanks for that, I'll play with LLC4 to measure against your CPU. I've noticed that in VF points my CPU has almost the same voltage like yours one 1.369v vs 1.364v.


----------



## BelowAverageIQ

Falkentyne said:


> I told you earlier that your SP84 KS is a decent chip. Not a winner but good (above average) on a "K" chip scale.. But you ignored me and wasted your money and you spent another $800 buying a true loser chip  You should have listened and kept the SP84 and enjoyed it, instead of comparing yourself to lucky people with lottery winners....


I know mate, I should have listened. Sorry. It is done now. I feel even worse.

Cheers


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Catsonar said:


> What SP rating are we talking here? What temps did you do this with?


I don't know SP rating. I don't have an ASUS board. Temps were just normal ambient 72f (22C).


----------



## david12900k

12900ks SP 98 - 105 P cores 85 e cores


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

david12900k said:


> View attachment 2555027
> 
> View attachment 2555028
> 
> 
> 12900ks SP 98 - 105 P cores 85 e cores


Great chip! Curious to see ur minimum load voltages for Cinebench R20/23 at 5.2,5.3,5.4 GHz respectively!


----------



## Catsonar

david12900k said:


> View attachment 2555027
> 
> View attachment 2555028
> 
> 
> 12900ks SP 98 - 105 P cores 85 e cores


Interesting, Would you be willing to sell me your chip? Seems like a good bin. Willing to give your $200 over what you paid. Let me know good Sir.


----------



## fat4l

bigfootnz said:


> Thanks for that, I'll play with LLC4 to measure against your CPU. I've noticed that in VF points my CPU has almost the same voltage like yours one 1.369v vs 1.364v.


Every manufacturers LLC setting works slighlty differently..
I only tested 5.2G so far. LLC 6 is fine for me as that's what I used on my original 12900K binning. That chip was P core SP 90, but my current 12900KS with SP P core 100 is definitelly a better chip.

What I also found is I need a little more volts for cinebench R23/R15 than for R20. You don't see that as well?... because you said _"passed CB 23/20 at 1.28v LLC6 bios set"_. Is it same for both?

I also don't change anything else in the bios except for LLC and core voltage, set P cores to 52, and XMP. Stock cache, stock e cores etc.....
Maybe PLL overvoltage would help stabilizing high clocks.. .?


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Catsonar said:


> Interesting, Would you be willing to sell me your chip? Seems like a good bin. Willing to give your $200 over what you paid. Let me know good Sir.


Not sure if you're asking me or not but my chip isn't for sale. Not atleast until I take it cold to test scaling. I hope you find a good chip!


----------



## fat4l

david12900k said:


> 12900ks SP 98 - 105 P cores 85 e cores


What is the bios ? if its 1403 then I should be a great chip, any other bios and it is reporting higher SP than 1403 would


----------



## Catsonar

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Not sure if you're asking me or not but my chip isn't for sale. Not atleast until I take it cold to test scaling. I hope you find a good chip!


$400 over what you paid? Will that do the trick?


----------



## fat4l

Btw 3 of my friends are bringing their 12900KSs to me for testing this/next week. Let's see if we can find something interesting


----------



## david12900k

fat4l said:


> What is the bios ? if its 1403 then I should be a great chip, any other bios and it is reporting higher SP than 1403 would


yep, 1403


----------



## fat4l

david12900k said:


> yep, 1403


test test test then  

CB R20, lowest load vcore for 5.2 - 5.5


----------



## david12900k

fat4l said:


> test test test then
> 
> CB R20, lowest load vcore for 5.2 - 5.5


Im gonna try to get the lowest stable 5.3 tonight. On my 12900k, i set adaptive voltage to 1.46 and then set the v/f points to where i needed them to be. Ill probably do the same here. I just did a quick 10 minute run and 5.3 Ghz @ LLC 4, 0.2 AC_LL, 0.98 DC_LL, (V/F Point 6 (5.3 GHz) at 1.38v) and it passed. Still tons more testing to do


----------



## bigfootnz

fat4l said:


> Every manufacturers LLC setting works slighlty differently..
> I only tested 5.2G so far. LLC 6 is fine for me as that's what I used on my original 12900K binning. That chip was P core SP 90, but my current 12900KS with SP P core 100 is definitelly a better chip.
> 
> What I also found is I need a little more volts for cinebench R23/R15 than for R20. You don't see that as well?... because you said _"passed CB 23/20 at 1.28v LLC6 bios set"_. Is it same for both?
> 
> I also don't change anything else in the bios except for LLC and core voltage, set P cores to 52, and XMP. Stock cache, stock e cores etc.....
> Maybe PLL overvoltage would help stabilizing high clocks.. .?


Since we all have Asus boards I assume that LLC should be same or quite similar. Your board is Strix like mine and we should have same LLC. While @nickolp1974 has Apex and his LLC could be slightly different.

In my case if I can pass 23 I can pass 20.


----------



## david12900k

fat4l said:


> test test test then
> 
> CB R20, lowest load vcore for 5.2 - 5.5


For a quick test tonight, what exact settings do you want me to punch in? Also what readings should i report back in with c23?


----------



## domdtxdissar

SuperMumrik said:


> Farcry [email protected] Ultra FSR QTY
> View attachment 2553641





SuperMumrik said:


> We might need a dedicated thread at this point, but I just got Horzion Zero Dawn (your fault, but it's a good game )
> I took the liberty to add CB2077 as well since it just got a canned ingame benchmark. Could you do a re-run of FarCry6 so we got matching versions?
> 
> View attachment 2554925
> 
> Horizon Zero Dawn 1080p, performance preset, 50% res scale
> View attachment 2554926
> 
> Cyberpunk 2077, 1080p Low preset


I got alittle bored and didn't have the patience to wait for the competed "stage2" loop, so i updated all the cpu game-benches to their newest game versions tonight:


http://imgur.com/a/TZdNAzm

Dont think there is so much more to squeeze out from regular zen3, even with sub ambient cooling.. 
But atleast i have a minimum target for my next Zen4 build 😇


----------



## fat4l

bigfootnz said:


> Since we all have Asus boards I assume that LLC should be same or quite similar. Your board is Strix like mine and we should have same LLC. While @nickolp1974 has Apex and his LLC could be slightly different.
> 
> In my case if I can pass 23 I can pass 20.


yeah if it's asus it should be fine but some have EVGA boards etc...

What I meant by R20 vs R23, see if you can run R20 even with lower volts than R23.


----------



## fat4l

david12900k said:


> For a quick test tonight, what exact settings do you want me to punch in? Also what readings should i report back in with c23?


yeah can do R23, or R20 even better I think.
5.2G
5.3G
5.4G
Just check for lowest load volts. some of us here use LLC6 so...

Let's start with
set all P cores to 5.2G, LLC6, 1.23V bios, that should give you around 1.199V under load, can pass R20? if yes, go 1.22V bios, then 1.21v etc until the windows freezes/crashes.
(We could possibly start playing with LLC4 but not sure how that scales, I guess 1.33V should give you about 1.2v?? under load)


----------



## bigfootnz

david12900k said:


> For a quick test tonight, what exact settings do you want me to punch in? Also what readings should i report back in with c23?


Can you do tests 5.2/4.0/4.0(4.1) with lowest manual voltage with LLC6 or LLC4 which you can run CB 23/20. Then try again for 5.3 and 5.4? If you could state BIOS set voltage as some boards, like mine do not have die sense. Thanks


----------



## bigfootnz

fat4l said:


> yeah if it's asus it should be fine but some have EVGA boards etc...
> 
> What I meant by R20 vs R23, see if you can run R20 even with lower volts than R23.


OK, will try that tonight. I was always trying first R23 and then R20.


----------



## gecko991

Oh yeah want to see this.


----------



## david12900k

bigfootnz said:


> Can you do tests 5.2/4.0/4.0(4.1) with lowest manual voltage with LLC6 or LLC4 which you can run CB 23/20. Then try again for 5.3 and 5.4? If you could state BIOS set voltage as some boards, like mine do not have die sense. Thanks


Do you guys just set a fixed vcore?


----------



## fat4l

I do, bios set manual voltage, + LLC, then watch load voltage in hwinfo or aida64


----------



## gecko991

Yes usually sometimes adaptive as well still testing.


----------



## david12900k

And do you guys want multi run stable or single run stable?


----------



## gecko991

I am interested in multi.


----------



## SuperMumrik

domdtxdissar said:


> Dont think there is so much more to squeeze out from regular zen3, even with sub ambient cooling..
> But atleast i have a minimum target for my next Zen4 build 😇


Good job, looking forward to your x3d testing! Did you forget about Metro? 🤫
No dimm block for those Bartx heatspreaders? And new CPU block?


----------



## david12900k

bigfootnz said:


> Can you do tests 5.2/4.0/4.0(4.1) with lowest manual voltage with LLC6 or LLC4 which you can run CB 23/20. Then try again for 5.3 and 5.4? If you could state BIOS set voltage as some boards, like mine do not have die sense. Thanks


And you guys set the vcore with "ACtual VRM Core Voltage" or "Global Core SVID Voltage". Looks like they changed the name of the CPU Core voltage setting in these new bios


----------



## bigfootnz

david12900k said:


> And you guys set the vcore with "ACtual VRM Core Voltage" or "Global Core SVID Voltage". Looks like they changed the name of the CPU Core voltage setting in these new bios


Which board you have? Stix or Maximus? 
On my Strix I set Actual VRM Core Voltage.

You can do 1-3 runs, I would like to know just min voltage to run CB and not stability test, as that takes time. Thanks


----------



## david12900k

bigfootnz said:


> Which board you have? Stix or Maximus?
> On my Strix I set Actual VRM Core Voltage.
> 
> You can do 1-3 runs, I would like to know just min voltage to run CB and not stability test, as that takes time. Thanks


Apex


----------



## gecko991

Apex here.


----------



## bigfootnz

david12900k said:


> Apex


I was under impression that they have change only on Strix, as they do not have die sense voltage.

On My Hero I still didn’t update firmware, that was reason why I thought this was only on Strix boards.

If you have extra spare time. Can you on 5.3G test what is lowest AC, with DC 0.98 and LLC4, you can pass CB23/20. Thanks


----------



## bscool

@bigfootnz Have you had a chance to see how IMC is on KS in Strix? I suppose with 1304 it is kind of difficult as it is not good for DR. 

I did a self lobotomy and bought KS so I will find out soon. May the OC gods bless it will good IMC on DDR4 and 5 

Last 12900KF does 4266 to 4300 DR on Strix so a high bar to beat or even match.


----------



## bigfootnz

bscool said:


> @bigfootnz Have you had a chance to see how IMC is on KS in Strix? I suppose with 1304 it is kind of difficult as it is not good for DR.
> 
> I did a self lobotomy and bought KS so I will find out soon. May the OC gods bless it will good IMC on DDR4 and 5
> 
> Last 12900KF does 4266 to 4300 DR on Strix so a high bar to beat or even match.


Still didn’t have time for any real OC. Only what I done is quick and dirty OC to see appropriate limits of this CPU. 
But for sure I’ll test DDR4 with 2x16 and 2x8, as I’m not sure was right call to go with DDR5. Mostly I use PC for gaming and will revisit this again. Honestly I went with DDR5 only as it was something new. But now I’ve both systems and will do more tests. My SP89 was able only to go to 4133 and nothing higher stable. I was able to boot 4266 but was not able to make it stable.

I hope your ks is better than mine, as I see now that it can be much better. But on other hand can be really average or below.


----------



## bscool

I got my kit from DIY Frontal Lobotomy

"We are currently offering a 50% discount if you order 2 of our DIY Frontal Lobotomy kits. Buy one for yourself and give the other to a loved one. They'll thank you for it (if they still remember you)."


----------



## gecko991

Noice.


----------



## david12900k

fat4l said:


> yeah can do R23, or R20 even better I think.
> 5.2G
> 5.3G
> 5.4G
> Just check for lowest load volts. some of us here use LLC6 so...
> 
> Let's start with
> set all P cores to 5.2G, LLC6, 1.23V bios, that should give you around 1.199V under load, can pass R20? if yes, go 1.22V bios, then 1.21v etc until the windows freezes/crashes.
> (We could possibly start playing with LLC4 but not sure how that scales, I guess 1.33V should give you about 1.2v?? under load)


So far stable at 1.13v set, still going lower


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

david12900k said:


> So far stable at 1.13v set, still going lower


Nice chip! Seems similiar to mine. What's ur ambient temp? And are ur e cores also enabled? If so what clocks?


----------



## Falkentyne

BelowAverageIQ said:


> I know mate, I should have listened. Sorry. It is done now. I feel even worse.
> 
> Cheers


It's fine. As you can see from your samples, you can't use SP to gauge precise accuracy on KS chips. You just have to go right down and test them for vmin (load die-sense vcore) at 5.2, 5.3 and 5.4 ghz in R23. In general, a chip with a much higher SP will be better than a chip with a much lower SP, but quality can vary quite a bit within the same SP, even if the V/F points match.

But yeah your second chip is terrible, I'm sorry about that. Definitely NOT KS worthy at all. Your first chip I would be satisfied with as long as it can do stockfish at 5.3 ghz all cores, at LOWER than 1.30v die sense load vcore without hard lock.

Can your second chip do 5.2 ghz all cores in the latest version of Prime95, small FFT with FMA3 enabled? 
Can you test that for me please?
Because if it CAN'T, you can actually return that for a refund.


----------



## david12900k

As you guys requested:
12900KS - SP 98
P-Core SP: 105
E-Core SP: 85
Bios: 1403
MB: z690 Apex
Running EK Velocity 2 waterblock with a MO-RA3 420 and 480mm (60mm thick) rad
Ambient Temp: 68.9 F

P-Cores: 52
E-Cores: 40
Cache: 40
LLC 6
Global Core SVID Voltage (Manual) (Bios Set): 1.13v

Stable for 3 Runs of C23 AND C20

1.10v Vcore Crashed instantly
1.11v Vcore crashed instantly
1.12v Vcore stable for 3 runs of C20 and 4 minutes of r23, but crashed
1.13v Vcore stable for 3 runs of C20 and 10 minutes of r23, no crashes  crashed at minute 13, next run crashed at minute 6

Max C23 Temps:
65 C on package
65 C on core 5


----------



## Ichirou

david12900k said:


> As you guys requested:
> 12900KS - SP 98
> P-Core SP: 105
> E-Core SP: 85
> Bios: 1403
> MB: z690 Apex
> Running EK Velocity 2 waterblock with a MO-RA3 420 and 480mm (60mm thick) rad
> Ambient Temp: 68.9 F
> 
> P-Cores: 52
> E-Cores: 40
> Cache: 40
> LLC 6
> Global Core SVID Voltage (Manual) (Bios Set): 1.13v
> 
> Stable for 3 Runs of C23 AND C20
> 
> 1.10v Vcore Crashed instantly
> 1.11v Vcore crashed instantly
> 1.12v Vcore stable for 3 runs of C20 and 4 minutes of r23, but crashed
> 1.13v Vcore stable for 3 runs of C20 and 10 minutes of r23, no crashes  crashed at minute 13, next run crashed at minute 6
> 
> Max C23 Temps:
> 65 C on package
> 65 C on core 5


Another golden chip.

Now time to test out the DDR5 IMC


----------



## fat4l

that is a really good chip there )))))) My chip needs 1.25v bios set llc6 to run R23.. ... w00w


----------



## david12900k

Ichirou said:


> Another golden chip.
> 
> Now time to test out the DDR5 IMC


With my apex and 12900k, I couldn't even get my gskill 6400cl32 to do 1t, so either my motherboard sucked or my 12900k sucked. Let's hope it was my 12900k and not my motherboard


----------



## Falkentyne

fat4l said:


> that is a really good chip there )))))) My chip needs 1.25v bios set llc6 to run R23.. ... w00w


He's not using "traditional" manual vcore control.
He's using SVID. This overrides the CPU VID. (I think this is similar to what Gigabyte calls "Override Mode" starting on their Z490 boards, while "Fixed" mode is the traditional fixed vcore.
I haven't messed around with the new SVID options however. But if the die sense pass is 1.14v, that's still very good. (That obviously will NOT pass Stockfish on 24 threads in any way shape or form, though).


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Apex's are often sucky. If you lived nearby I'd invite you over to test on my dark 7200 c32 at 1T boots easy. It doesn't pass geekbench but it boots easy enough. 7000 c32 1T will pass Geekbench no problem. Haven't tested to verify how stable it actually is. I doubt it's fully stable though.


----------



## david12900k

fat4l said:


> that is a really good chip there )))))) My chip needs 1.25v bios set llc6 to run R23.. ... w00w


Im hoping i can run 5.5 all core in C23. That would be pretty cool, considering Intel 7 (10nm) is still fairly new


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Falkentyne said:


> He's not using "traditional" manual vcore control.
> He's using SVID. This overrides the CPU VID. (I think this is similar to what Gigabyte calls "Override Mode" starting on their Z490 boards, while "Fixed" mode is the traditional fixed vcore.
> I haven't messed around with the new SVID options however. But if the die sense pass is 1.14v, that's still very good. (That obviously will NOT pass Stockfish on 24 threads in any way shape or form, though).


What's the difference? My board doesn't have any of this svid stuff. There's adaptive voltages but I don't see the point. Maybe I'm just old school. I just set whatever voltage it needs and let it do its thing.


----------



## david12900k

Falkentyne said:


> He's not using "traditional" manual vcore control.
> He's using SVID. This overrides the CPU VID. (I think this is similar to what Gigabyte calls "Override Mode" starting on their Z490 boards, while "Fixed" mode is the traditional fixed vcore.
> I haven't messed around with the new SVID options however. But if the die sense pass is 1.14v, that's still very good. (That obviously will NOT pass Stockfish on 24 threads in any way shape or form, though).


What setting do you want me to set for vcore in the Asus 1403 bios? there is no normal CPU vcore setting like there was in old bioses


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

david12900k said:


> Im hoping i can run 5.5 all core in C23. That would be pretty cool, considering Intel 7 (10nm) is still fairly new


Yeah try around 1.3V (load voltage) or so and depending on temps it might do it. I need a couple degrees colder I think as I've got a couple cores that hit upper 80s and if any of my cores hit 90C or so I crash instantly so I just don't have the thermal headroom to go much past 1.31V (set voltage) 5.4 passes at 1.23V with e cores at 43 but even 1.31V I can't pass 5.5 aleast with e cores enabled. I Haven't tried disabling them for R20 tests.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Apex's are often sucky. If you lived nearby I'd invite you over to test on my dark 7200 c32 at 1T boots easy. It doesn't pass geekbench but it boots easy enough. 7000 c32 1T will pass Geekbench no problem. Haven't tested to verify how stable it actually is. I doubt it's fully stable though.





Mylittlepwny2 said:


> What's the difference? My board doesn't have any of this svid stuff. There's adaptive voltages but I don't see the point. Maybe I'm just old school. I just set whatever voltage it needs and let it do its thing.


EVGA boards have always been great. Kind of disappointed that they aren't offering a DDR4 board though.
Adaptive Voltage is good if you plan to run your 12th Gen with boost/turbo clocks instead of constant all-core, so it winds down when there's no load.
It's really not complex at all. Just set the Turbo Boost clock for all cores to the same multiplier, and then enable Adaptive Voltage and set that to the same voltage you have now.
Motherboard should do the rest automatically.


----------



## david12900k

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> What's the difference? My board doesn't have any of this svid stuff. There's adaptive voltages but I don't see the point. Maybe I'm just old school. I just set whatever voltage it needs and let it do its thing.


Also, which stockfish test? I have never used that


----------



## bigfootnz

david12900k said:


> What setting do you want me to set for vcore in the Asus 1403 bios? there is no normal CPU vcore setting like there was in old bioses


Set Actual VRM Core Voltage this is regular Vcore
If you have time can you do same test but using LLC4, DC 0.98 and find lowest AC? Thanks


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ichirou said:


> EVGA boards have always been great. Kind of disappointed that they aren't offering a DDR4 board though.
> Adaptive Voltage is good if you plan to run your 12th Gen with boost/turbo clocks instead of constant all-core, so it winds down when there's no load.
> It's really not complex at all. Just set the Turbo Boost clock for all cores to the same multiplier, and then enable Adaptive Voltage and set that to the same voltage you have now.
> Motherboard should do the rest automatically.


Fair enough. Yeah I just don't mind a chip idling with higher than necessary volts. Tbh even running 5.4 GHz my chip is technically undervolted vs the stock voltages. Seriously this thing runs much hotter out of the factory for only 5.2 GHz under cinebench.

I said stockfish? I've never heard of it. Maybe my phone auto corrected cinebench?


----------



## david12900k

Im gonna jump right in and attempt to get 5.5 all core stable in r23 for 30 minutes


----------



## gecko991

Wow...


----------



## gecko991

That is noice.


----------



## GtiJason

Falkentyne said:


> I'd take a 116 SP K/KF (does anyone even have one above 115 SP? I thought the world record SP is lower than that) over a 106 SP KS any day, because at least I get AVX 512 on it.
> Safedisk posted some AVX 512 shots on his 12900KS, but he's had that chip for months. That's clearly an early sample chip, before the fuses were completely cut (e.g. before the announcement that Intel would disable it permanently).
> 
> I've seen a grand total of zero people with a retail 12900KS with AVX 512 enabled with E cores disabled. And I think that number is going to remain at zero, and any screenshots of it "enabled" are going to be meme troll photoshop jobs by people trying to be popular on the internet...


AVX512F enabled 









safedisk`s y-cruncher - Pi-1b score: 15sec 771ms with a Core i9 12900KS (8P)


The Core i9 12900KS (8P) @ 6767MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the y-cruncher - Pi-1b benchmark. safediskranks #7 worldwide and #2 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org


----------



## gecko991

Vietnam chip or China?


----------



## david12900k

Maybe someone can help me. I just set Performance cores to "By ratio" then made all of the ratios 55, but then when I get into C23, the max frequency is 54. I checked and all my AVX offsets are 0. Never happened at 5.3 all core OC on my 12900k
Im just a dumbass. I had the max power limit setting on


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

david12900k said:


> Im gonna jump right in and attempt to get 5.5 all core stable in r23 for 30 minutes


Does yours finish a run at 5.5 on r20/23? If so wow. What voltage (under load) and what are your ambient temps? 👏 👏 👏


----------



## fat4l

Falkentyne said:


> He's not using "traditional" manual vcore control.
> He's using SVID. This overrides the CPU VID. (I think this is similar to what Gigabyte calls "Override Mode" starting on their Z490 boards, while "Fixed" mode is the traditional fixed vcore.
> I haven't messed around with the new SVID options however. But if the die sense pass is 1.14v, that's still very good. (That obviously will NOT pass Stockfish on 24 threads in any way shape or form, though).


I'm a little confused here. Svid ? Do I have it? Does he have it ? I just check my load voltage in windows under vcore and thats what I do while manually setting voltage in bios. I also think my board has socket sense.
I'm confused now .....


david12900k said:


> Maybe someone can help me. I just set Performance cores to "By ratio" then made all of the ratios 55, but then when I get into C23, the max frequency is 54. I checked and all my AVX offsets are 0. Never happened at 5.3 all core OC on my 12900k
> Im just a dumbass. I had the max power limit setting on


ahaaa. maybe that affected the results for 5.2G? would be good retesting.



Asus has this option in bios - remove all limits, thats what I use when testing


----------



## david12900k

fat4l said:


> I'm a little confused here. Svid ? Do I have it? Does he have it ? I just check my load voltage in windows under vcore and thats what I do while manually setting voltage in bios. I also think my board has socket sense.
> I'm confused now .....
> 
> ahaaa. maybe that affected the results for 5.2G? would be good retesting.
> 
> 
> 
> Asus has this option in bios - remove all limits, thats what I use when testing


I didnt have this on when testing 5.2, i just use it for higher frequencies


----------



## david12900k

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Does yours finish a run at 5.5 on r20/23? If so wow. What voltage (under load) and what are your ambient temps? 👏 👏 👏


Not yet, looks like im going to have temp issues... even with custom watercooling. Im going to try to tweak it more tomorrow, but so far, even with this SP, it looks like im going to be temp limited. To hit 5.5 all core (daily), seems like someone is going to need direct die cooling (And my cooler score is 216 points in Asus)


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

david12900k said:


> Not yet, looks like im going to have temp issues... even with custom watercooling. Im going to try to tweak it more tomorrow, but so far, even with this SP, it looks like im going to be temp limited. To hit 5.5 all core (daily), seems like someone is going to need direct die cooling (And my cooler score is 216 points in Asus)


Yeah same here. 5.4 is easy enough. But I get temp limited anything past 1.31V (89-90C on my hottest core) which triggers throttling and even when I bump up TJ max to get rid of that I still crash due to heat. Alder lake is just super picky about temps. 

I'm also on a large custom loop so I feel our setups are very comparable. So what were your minimum load voltages for 5.2,5.3, and 5.4 again? Your chip seems extremely similiar to mine. Perhaps urs is even a bit better. Idk


----------



## Falkentyne

david12900k said:


> What setting do you want me to set for vcore in the Asus 1403 bios? there is no normal CPU vcore setting like there was in old bioses


It's been renamed 'Actual VRM Core Voltage'.


----------



## Falkentyne

david12900k said:


> Also, which stockfish test? I have never used that


Install


Arena Chess GUI



Download latest haswell build


Stockfish Development Versions



Extract exe and load in Arena under engine menu, 
configure # of cores (threads) in UCI setting.
Activate engine and press analyze or make moves to whatever position you want then press analyze (make sure it isn't actually trying to play against you or will stop calculating).

Enjoy watching your R23 stable CPU cry for mommy.


----------



## david12900k

All right, got 5.5 all core to pass C20. LLC 4. DC_LL .98, AC_LL .2, 1.44v set in bios, 1.305v in hwinfo. No throttling as far as i can tell. 11507 pts
Looks like it passed r23 also. 30312 points with e cores at 40


----------



## david12900k

5.5 p cores, 4.0 e cores


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

david12900k said:


> View attachment 2555073
> 
> 5.5 p cores, 4.0 e cores


Scores seem really low. I'm just over 12000 and 31500 in R23 with 5.45 GHz though granted I'm using e cores at 4.34 (101 bclk x 54 and 43 for e cores) check what's going on. I bet you're throttling or have some kind of other limit and not actually running those clocks.


----------



## david12900k

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Scores seem really low. I'm just over 12000 and 31500 in R23 with 5.45 GHz though granted I'm using e cores at 4.34 (101 bclk x 54 and 43 for e cores) check what's going on. I bet you're throttling or have some kind of other limit and not actually running those clocks.


What load line are you running?


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

david12900k said:


> What load line are you running?


-75% llc. I'm on an evga dark board so it's not directly comparable. Basically it shows very little vdroop under load. It's one setting above no vdroop. So I set 1.23V at idle and vcore shows 1.23 under load though VR VOUT (which i believe is the actual die sense voltage) shows it drop to about 1.194-1.206 under load.


----------



## sugi0lover

david12900k said:


> All right, got 5.5 all core to pass C20. LLC 4. DC_LL .98, AC_LL .2, 1.44v set in bios, 1.305v in hwinfo. No throttling as far as i can tell. 11507 pts
> Looks like it passed r23 also. 30312 points with e cores at 40


Good CPU!
For the comparison purpose bet. K and KS, I posted my result before with SP103 (P 5.5, E 4.3, C 4.5), SP changed to 104 on recent bioses.
LLC7 1.290v Bios, (1.234v at load). The water temp was 18C~19C.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> Good CPU!
> For the comparison purpose bet. K and KS, I posted my result before with SP103 (P 5.5, E 4.3, C 4.5), SP changed to 104 on recent bioses.
> LLC7 1.290v Bios, (1.234v at load). The water temp was 18C~19C.
> View attachment 2555076


Yeah score looks right! Very nice chip!


----------



## david12900k

Im going to have to go more in depth here this weekend. With LLC 4, its either too hot and throttling or crashes.
Any ideas on what settings to change to try to stabilze this or try to get the temps down a little?


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

david12900k said:


> Im going to have to go more in depth here this weekend. With LLC 4, its either too hot and throttling or crashes.
> Any ideas on what settings to change to try to stabilze this or try to get the temps down a little?


I think we just gotta reduce ambient temps. My ambient is just over 22C. I wouldn't be surprised if a 5C ambient reduction got us there. These things really are that picky. If you're just dailying the chip delidding is definitely an option! Might be able to stabilize 5.4+ on Prime 95 small ffts.


----------



## david12900k

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> I think we just gotta reduce ambient temps. My ambient is just over 22C. I wouldn't be surprised if a 5C ambient reduction got us there. These things really are that picky. If you're just dailying the chip delidding is definitely an option! Might be able to stabilize 5.4+ on Prime 95 small ffts.


Yeah I think I'm going to try to stabilize 5.4 and then go from there


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Yeah I could only get prime 95 small FFTs to run at 5.3 GHz at 1.23V. 5.4 wasn't doable due to the heat. I was already low 80s on my worst core at that voltage. E cores disabled for obvious reasons.


----------



## david12900k

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Yeah I could only get prime 95 small FFTs to run at 5.3 GHz at 1.23V. 5.4 wasn't doable due to the heat. I was already low 80s on my worst core at that voltage. E cores disabled for obvious reasons.


I didn't even think to try that. I wonder if I can pull off 5.5 with E cores disabled


----------



## Dinnzy

My KS passed r23 5.3 unify x llc 6 1.217 under load. 2 cores hit 95, the rest stayed in the 80sz 5.4 Input voltage has been 1.385 and have blue screen on both of my 2 attempts. I’m sure I could hit it, thinking it’s going to easily hit 100c though. Maybe it’s time for a mora ;p


----------



## sugi0lover

My friend benched his 12900K to compare his coming 12900KS.
-Cine 10 Min, 12900K (SP103), P53 E42 R44, 1.21v (LLC7), 1.163v at load, Water Temp 26~27.5C, 7200 CL30 Ram OC


----------



## sugi0lover

Here are 3 12900KS posted at Korean PC forum.
General SP 96, 92, 86

[SP96, P-SP 105]









[SP92]

















[SP86]


----------



## Huseyinbaykal

Is it worth anything to sell 92 big sp 12900k and buy unknown 12900ks? Just using at 5.1p/4.0e all core.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Edited double post


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Just turned e cores off. So 5.5 will run R20 with 1.29V under load with 53 on the cache. With HT disabled 5.6 runs all core with 1.3V (voltages reported under load) also for kicks and giggles I turned off HT and ran at 5.6 GHz all core. Temps barely in low 60s with 22C ambient. Might try 5.7 with a bit more voltage tomorrow.


----------



## Nizzen

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Just turned e cores off. So 5.5 will run R20 with 1.29V under load with 53 on the cache. With HT disabled 5.6 runs all core with 1.3V (voltages reported under load) also for kicks and giggles I turned off HT and ran at 5.6 GHz all core. Temps barely in low 60s with 22C ambient. Might try 5.7 with a bit more voltage tomorrow.
> View attachment 2555108
> 
> View attachment 2555107


Nice!
Is this delidded?
Too bad there is no Evga Dark Kingpin to buy in Europe. Ebay is not an option, because we have 5 years "return if broken" here in Norway. Overclockers dream return policy


----------



## IronAge

Nizzen said:


> Too bad there is no Evga Dark Kingpin to buy in Europe. Ebay is not an option, because we have 5 years "return if broken" here in Norway. Overclockers dream return policy


Not seen a Z590 Dark in any other shop than the US/CN EVGA Shop, don't think this is going to change for the Z690 DARK.

Great return policy gotto be the reason for the +100€ pricing for the Z690 Apex in norway compared to other european etailers.


----------



## Skyhopper01

I was a bit disappointed with my 12900k SP80 and decided to pick up the new 12900ks. I was hoping for a higher bin, but I got an SP90 with a P core SP of 98. Def a nice improvement. 5.3ghz is stable in all my games at around 1.32vcore. I could probably tune that a bit lower but I am going to try 5.4 and see where it lands. So far 5.3/4.2/4.2 is what I am sitting at.


----------



## SSBrain

Is there information somewhere on how to calculate the SP rating with different motherboards than ASUS?


----------



## Skyhopper01

SSBrain said:


> Is there information somewhere on how to calculate the SP rating with different motherboards than ASUS?


This video by Frame Chasers has some good insight on how you possible could determine this.


----------



## jomama22

SSBrain said:


> Is there information somewhere on how to calculate the SP rating with different motherboards than ASUS?


It's genuinely meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Really, just comparing load voltage/clocks is what's actually important.


----------



## Skyhopper01

jomama22 said:


> It's genuinely meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Really, just comparing load voltage/clocks is what's actually important.


 Its nice to have a quick way to reference between chips as to which one would be better overall using silicon prediction AI. With the High SP chips, you are basically guaranteed lower load voltage at higher clocks


----------



## SSBrain

Skyhopper01 said:


> This video by Frame Chasers has some good insight on how you possible could determine this.


After watching it, it didn't seem to go into detail on the actual calculation, other than using an Asus board.



jomama22 said:


> It's genuinely meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Really, just comparing load voltage/clocks is what's actually important.


I was just curious knowing how much the P-cores on my 12700K would score. I think I have a relatively poor CPU; the native VID at 50x (maximum default ratio for this CPU) appears to be in the 1.330–1.375V range depending on the core.


----------



## jomama22

Skyhopper01 said:


> Its nice to have a quick way to reference between chips as to which one would be better overall using silicon prediction AI. With the High SP chips, you are basically guaranteed lower load voltage at higher clocks


Meh, only on the extreme ends of the spectrum. I tested 12 12900k's between 84-96 p-core sp and they varied wildly without much consistency. Had an 88 beat a 95 in voltage and max clock. Derbaur's video shows this as well. You have to test them regardless.


----------



## david12900k

Starting to work on 12900ks 5.4 all p core/4.0 e core/Auto ring. My OC's are more geared towards daily oc'ing so i tend to stay away from high LLC values
So far have:
LLC 4
AC_LL: 0.18 (Lowest stable)
DC_LL: 0.98 (Static and set from LLC 4 impedence value on board)
Adaptive Voltage: Auto
V/F point 6 (5300): -90 mv (Still lowering this)
Vcore in HWMonitor under C23 load: 1.199v (Still lowering this)
Wattage Used (Measured in HWMonitor: 258 watts)

EDIT: I run C23 (3x30 minute runs) to determine stability.
V/F Point 6 (5300):
-90 mv failed after 25 minutes
-80 mv passed run 1, failed run 2
-70 mv in progress


----------



## Skyhopper01

david12900k said:


> Starting to work on 12900ks 5.4 all p core/4.0 e core/Auto ring. My OC's are more geared towards daily oc'ing so i tend to stay away from high LLC values
> So far have:
> LLC 4
> AC_LL: 0.18 (Lowest stable)
> DC_LL: 0.98 (Static and set from LLC 4 impedence value on board)
> Adaptive Voltage: Auto
> V/F point 6 (5300): -90 mv (Still lowering this)
> Vcore in HWMonitor under C23 load: 1.199v (Still lowering this)
> Wattage Used (Measured in HWMonitor: 258 watts)
> 
> EDIT: I run C23 (3x30 minute runs) to determine stability.
> V/F Point 6 (5300):
> -90 mv failed after 25 minutes
> -80 mv passed run 1, failed run 2
> -70 mv in progress
> [/QUOTE





david12900k said:


> Starting to work on 12900ks 5.4 all p core/4.0 e core/Auto ring. My OC's are more geared towards daily oc'ing so i tend to stay away from high LLC values
> So far have:
> LLC 4
> AC_LL: 0.18 (Lowest stable)
> DC_LL: 0.98 (Static and set from LLC 4 impedence value on board)
> Adaptive Voltage: Auto
> V/F point 6 (5300): -90 mv (Still lowering this)
> Vcore in HWMonitor under C23 load: 1.199v (Still lowering this)
> Wattage Used (Measured in HWMonitor: 258 watts)
> 
> EDIT: I run C23 (3x30 minute runs) to determine stability.
> V/F Point 6 (5300):
> -90 mv failed after 25 minutes
> -80 mv passed run 1, failed run 2
> -70 mv in progress


I tend to OC the same way. I have a different approach then most when it comes to OC stability since my system is strictly a gaming rig, but as long as everything is stable in the current game I am playing, I am happy. 5.4ghz all core is what I am going for, sounds like you have a good chip!


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Nizzen said:


> Nice!
> Is this delidded?
> Too bad there is no Evga Dark Kingpin to buy in Europe. Ebay is not an option, because we have 5 years "return if broken" here in Norway. Overclockers dream return policy


No stock chip. Out of the box using KPX paste an Optimus signature v2 block and 22C ambient temps. Lol


----------



## david12900k

Skyhopper01 said:


> I tend to OC the same way. I have a different approach then most when it comes to OC stability since my system is strictly a gaming rig, but as long as everything is stable in the current game I am playing, I am happy. 5.4ghz all core is what I am going for, sounds like you have a good chip!


Im kind of similar. 
1. Find the highest all core stable OC in a demanding benchmark (like cinebench r23). This is the base stable clock
2. Use TVB (Thermal velocity boost) to up the frequencies past that. For example, on my 12900k, i could do 5.3 all core in cinebench. Then I set the TVB profile to use +2 for 8, 7, and 6 cores, so that it ran 5.5 GHz all core if the core temps were under 70 (which i did during gaming), so while gaming, I had all core 5.5 Ghz, and in more demanding loads, it clocked down to 5.4 or 5.3 GHz depending on the load


----------



## J_Lab4645

david12900k said:


> Im kind of similar.
> 1. Find the highest all core stable OC in a demanding benchmark (like cinebench r23). This is the base stable clock
> 2. Use TVB (Thermal velocity boost) to up the frequencies past that. For example, on my 12900k, i could do 5.3 all core in cinebench. Then I set the TVB profile to use +2 for 8, 7, and 6 cores, so that it ran 5.5 GHz all core if the core temps were under 70 (which i did during gaming), so while gaming, I had all core 5.5 Ghz, and in more demanding loads, it clocked down to 5.4 or 5.3 GHz depending on the load



I just wanted to comment on your post because I did the same thing. Used CB R_23 as base stable clock. This works until you play a game or use an application that puts more stress on your cpu than CB. Had to redo my entire overclock because of that mistake. Cinebench seems to put a nice consistent load on your system but certain games will have your CPU yo'yo ing up and down at different loads eventually causing a crash or Cpu cache errors. After you're CB stable, try OCCT cpu stress tests. (SSE,AVX,AVX2) Even Linpack and see what happens. Or if you're a glutton for punishment try Falkentyne's suggestion: Stockfish. Stability is a very 'relative' term here and what one considers "stable". Finally I had a 'game' stable overclock that no games would crash in whatsoever. ....but I would intermittently get (correctable) Cache heirarchy errors. Pulled my hair out trying to figure what the hell was causing them. Turned off E-cores. All gone! So started "sync all E cores" @ x37. No problem. x38 No problem. x39 No problem. x40 and up....PROBLEM! Could benchmark and stress test all day long with no crashes or errors but certain games did not like my ecores at 40x or above. All chips may very but it seems no one is running into this problem because most gamers turn off E-cores and go for highest clocks. [My Ecores are only sp 70 so YMMV]


----------



## nickolp1974

J_Lab4645 said:


> I just wanted to comment on your post because I did the same thing. Used CB R_23 as base stable clock. This works until you play a game or use an application that puts more stress on your cpu than CB. Had to redo my entire overclock because of that mistake. Cinebench seems to put a nice consistent load on your system but certain games will have your CPU yo'yo ing up and down at different loads eventually causing a crash or Cpu cache errors. After you're CB stable, try OCCT cpu stress tests. (SSE,AVX,AVX2) Even Linpack and see what happens. Or if you're a glutton for punishment try Falkentyne's suggestion: Stockfish. Stability is a very 'relative' term here and what one considers "stable". Finally I had a 'game' stable overclock that no games would crash in whatsoever. ....but I would intermittently get (correctable) Cache heirarchy errors. Pulled my hair out trying to figure what the hell was causing them. Turned off E-cores. All gone! So started "sync all E cores" @ x37. No problem. x38 No problem. x39 No problem. x40 and up....PROBLEM! Could benchmark and stress test all day long with no crashes or errors but certain games did not like my ecores at 40x or above. All chips may very but it seems no one is running into this problem because most gamers turn off E-cores and go for highest clocks.


i generally just use Y cruncher 1B, if it passes that then its generally stable in everything i use the daily pc for, 20 odd seconds and done.


----------



## nickolp1974

Been running a few benchmarks today tunning memory and this KS id defo better than my old K, iirc max bench stable was around 6800 c30 i could boot at 7k but very slack, now i can get this netting about 14k in geekbench so far. 

edit: this is on EAYO?? Apex


----------



## Bilco

So what is the set methodology for comparing a 12900k to a 12900ks on an Apex?

Bios to 1403
voltage settings to ??? (heard of some using incorrect voltage reading here or using different type of voltage setting than standard)
start at 1.10 and increase in 0.01v increments until stable R23 for 10 minutes???
I just got my KS in the mail today and want to see how it sizes up to my Microcenter launch day 12900k SP89(Pcore 96)


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

nickolp1974 said:


> Been running a few benchmarks today tunning memory and this KS id defo better than my old K, iirc max bench stable was around 6800 c30 i could boot at 7k but very slack, now i can get this netting about 14k in geekbench so far.
> 
> edit: this is on EAYO?? Apex
> View attachment 2555145


I've been out of the loop for so long. Haven't had a chance to really see what's considered good on DDR5. Running my 12900K at 7200 c32-39-39 1T timings but I know it's not fully stable. Need to actually play n around with it one of these days and learn the ddr5 overclocking process.


----------



## david12900k

12900KS
SP 98
P core SP: 105
E core SP: 85

C23 - Stable for 30 minute run
Score (5.4/4.3): 30453
P-Cores: 5.4 Ghz
E-Cores: 4.3 Ghz
Stable 5.4 GHz (E cores 43): Bios set 1.299v (working on getting this lower) (1.208 in HWInfo)
Stable 5.4 Ghz (E cores 40): Bios set 1.284v


----------



## Nizzen

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> I've been out of the loop for so long. Haven't had a chance to really see what's considered good on DDR5. Running my 12900K at 7200 c32-39-39 1T timings but I know it's not fully stable. Need to actually play n around with it one of these days and learn the ddr5 overclocking process.


Pleace post Aida 64 memory benchmark


----------



## Lord Alzov

david12900k said:


> 12900KS
> SP 98
> P core SP: 105
> E core SP: 85
> 
> C23 - Stable for 30 minute run
> Score (5.4/4.3): 30453
> P-Cores: 5.4 Ghz
> E-Cores: 4.3 Ghz
> Stable 5.4 GHz (E cores 43): Bios set 1.299v (working on getting this lower) (1.208 in HWInfo)
> Stable 5.4 Ghz (E cores 40): Bios set 1.284v
> 
> View attachment 2555152


Throttling? I make 30600 on 5300 4200 4400 P E C. ANd 31+ on 5400 4200 4400 P E C.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Nizzen said:


> Pleace post Aida 64 memory benchmark


I want to construct my own profile first. I'm just copying and slightly modifying the Luumi 6800 profile in my bios. Once I get my hands dirty I'll be running Aida for sure and I'll post some numbers. This board is crazy man. I'm a total noob when it comes to ddr5 (I've done alot of ddr4 overclocking) and it booted 7000 1T like nothing and only a little bit of work it boots 7200 1T but crashes on geekbench 3. I've only adjusted vddq and vdimm voltages so I'm sure I can tweak things further when I have time.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Lord Alzov said:


> Throttling? I make 30600 on 5300 4200 4400 P E C. ANd 31+ on 5400 4200 4400 P E C.


Wow sounds like you also got a nice chip! What voltages do you need to pass cinebench at like 5.2? Do you know your sp rating?


----------



## jomama22

Bilco said:


> So what is the set methodology for comparing a 12900k to a 12900ks on an Apex?
> 
> Bios to 1403
> voltage settings to ??? (heard of some using incorrect voltage reading here or using different type of voltage setting than standard)
> start at 1.10 and increase in 0.01v increments until stable R23 for 10 minutes???
> I just got my KS in the mail today and want to see how it sizes up to my Microcenter launch day 12900k SP89(Pcore 96)


Just bench are you normally would...you would only be looking for improved clocks and lower voltages.


----------



## david12900k

Lord Alzov said:


> Throttling? I make 30600 on 5300 4200 4400 P E C. ANd 31+ on 5400 4200 4400 P E C.


I dont think so. Hitting 83 C max. My OS is full of bloat because its my daily OS. Razer synapse, Precision X1, tons of other programs open in the background. Thats probably whats degrading performance a little. I could get a bootable SSD and use that for cleaner runs. Its also possible i have a setting in my bios thats throttling performance a little


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Man I tried running my chip stock last night with all settings at auto. Holy **** these things run hot. The stock profile held 5.2 GHz all core on cinebench but used over 1.33V under load and ran in the high 80s and low 90s on the worst cores... anyone buying these chips really should be using a custom loop. No way even an AIO can keep these things cool without having to drop clocks a bit... damn.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Man I tried running my chip stock last night with all settings at auto. Holy **** these things run hot. The stock profile held 5.2 GHz all core on cinebench but used over 1.33V under load and ran in the high 80s and low 90s on the worst cores... anyone buying these chips really should be using a custom loop. No way even an AIO can keep these things cool without having to drop clocks a bit... damn.


Well, the K/KF already runs air coolers and most AIO coolers hot on stock, so... Can't expect much out of a 5.5 GHz turbo, lol
And Intel probably over-allocates voltages a little to make sure they run stable rather than cool.


----------



## Skyhopper01

david12900k said:


> 12900KS
> SP 98
> P core SP: 105
> E core SP: 85
> 
> C23 - Stable for 30 minute run
> Score (5.4/4.3): 30453
> P-Cores: 5.4 Ghz
> E-Cores: 4.3 Ghz
> Stable 5.4 GHz (E cores 43): Bios set 1.299v (working on getting this lower) (1.208 in HWInfo)
> Stable 5.4 Ghz (E cores 40): Bios set 1.284v
> 
> View attachment 2555152


That is a really nice bin.


----------



## Lord Alzov

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Wow sounds like you also got a nice chip! What voltages do you need to pass cinebench at like 5.2? Do you know your sp rating?











12900kf SP93


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Lord Alzov said:


> View attachment 2555162
> 
> 12900kf SP93


What was the idle voltage by chance?


----------



## jomama22

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Man I tried running my chip stock last night with all settings at auto. Holy **** these things run hot. The stock profile held 5.2 GHz all core on cinebench but used over 1.33V under load and ran in the high 80s and low 90s on the worst cores... anyone buying these chips really should be using a custom loop. No way even an AIO can keep these things cool without having to drop clocks a bit... damn.


Tbf, that's at a voltage(and then some) where it should pass everything(ignoring auto downclocking for avc loads) , not just r20/23.


----------



## Revv23

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Man I tried running my chip stock last night with all settings at auto. Holy **** these things run hot. The stock profile held 5.2 GHz all core on cinebench but used over 1.33V under load and ran in the high 80s and low 90s on the worst cores... anyone buying these chips really should be using a custom loop. No way even an AIO can keep these things cool without having to drop clocks a bit... damn.


most people wont ever be 100% on all 16cores at once. 

It runs pretty cool real world loads.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

fat4l said:


> View attachment 2554848
> 
> 
> 
> Just a reminder ....... 1 1 8 p core sp (not my chip)


Do we know any information on this chip? Clock speeds, voltages etc? What a monster


----------



## Falkentyne

Revv23 said:


> most people wont ever be 100% on all 16cores at once.
> 
> It runs pretty cool real world loads.


Stockfish will do this and chess programs run for hours when you're studying.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Do we know any information on this chip? Clock speeds, voltages etc? What a monster


Tends to be Chinese/Korean overclockers binning chips. Lots of them were spotted at those kinds of forums.


----------



## centvalny

Testing imc on this sp91chip


----------



## david12900k

I just don't get how I can run 5.4 all core at a decent stage and low (80's) temps, but I can't run 5.5 all core at all. Anyone have any tips?


----------



## gecko991

How is it acting when attempting 5.5


----------



## david12900k

gecko991 said:


> How is it acting when attempting 5.5


Not going well. 5.4 all core is easy with temps at 80. Seems like when I go up to 5.5, the temps are either way too high or when I turn down the voltage it crashes


----------



## jomama22

david12900k said:


> Not going well. 5.4 all core is easy with temps at 80. Seems like when I go up to 5.5, the temps are either way too high or when I turn down the voltage it crashes


You've more or less saturated the heat transfer of your loop. Not much you can do except for direct die/get better cooling. Just how it goes with these. Cooling is really the #1 priority for 12900xx. Someone with a worse chip can produce better clocks by merely getting 15* lower operating temps at a given voltage. Take a look at Igor's lab review of the direct die block to see how massive temp matters on these chips. 15* bought him 275mhz in y-cruncher (which is much harder on the CPU than r20/r23) on a pretty average chip (could only do ~5225 in y-cruncher previously).


----------



## Falkentyne

david12900k said:


> I just don't get how I can run 5.4 all core at a decent stage and low (80's) temps, but I can't run 5.5 all core at all. Anyone have any tips?


Hardly anyone can run a KS 5.5 ghz all core without delidding and keeping the chip VERY cold (I don't mean subzero).
Even the guy guy who posted he had a golden 12900KS can't run 5.5 ghz all core.
I think he can do it with the E cores disabled but not enabled.
I'm not talking about rich people with delidded chips running multiple 420 morads and $800 water cooling setups, or chillers...

5.4 ghz R23 stable seems achievable on good cooling, maybe even a 420mm AIO can handle it if you have a golden chip.
But 5.5 ghz, the voltage scaling required will be immense compared to 5.4 ghz.


----------



## domdtxdissar

SuperMumrik said:


> Good job, looking forward to your x3d testing! Did you forget about Metro? 🤫
> No dimm block for those Bartx heatspreaders? And new CPU block?




12900k - 190 fps
12900KS - 200 fps
5800X3D - 290 fps

Confirmed test done at 720p


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512151405615849477
_edit_
12900KS - 200 fps average
5800X3D - 231 fps average


----------



## Nizzen

Falkentyne said:


> Hardly anyone can run a KS 5.5 ghz all core without delidding and keeping the chip VERY cold (I don't mean subzero).
> Even the guy guy who posted he had a golden 12900KS can't run 5.5 ghz all core.
> I think he can do it with the E cores disabled but not enabled.
> I'm not talking about rich people with delidded chips running multiple 420 morads and $800 water cooling setups, or chillers...
> 
> 5.4 ghz R23 stable seems achievable on good cooling, maybe even a 420mm AIO can handle it if you have a golden chip.
> But 5.5 ghz, the voltage scaling required will be immense compared to 5.4 ghz.


Who care about 5.4 or 5.5ghz anyway, when the real performance is in the memory. Read; 7000mhz+ DDR5 😇


Happy Easter everyone 😊


----------



## Nizzen

domdtxdissar said:


> 12900k - 190 fps
> 12900KS - 200 fps
> 5800X3D - 290 fps
> 
> Confirmed test done at 720p
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512151405615849477
> _edit_
> 12900KS - 200 fps average
> 5800X3D - 231 fps average
> View attachment 2555220


"Just to point this out, we have 5800X3D with 228 avg FPS vs 12900KS with ~200 avg FPS."



Worthless numbers. Looks like WE have to test 5800x3d....


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Nizzen said:


> "Just to point this out, we have 5800X3D with 228 avg FPS vs 12900KS with ~200 avg FPS."
> 
> Worthless numbers. Looks like WE have to test 5800x3d....


I'm curious to see how it shakes out. So many reviewers use crap memory and slow timings as it makes a huge difference in high refresh rate gaming. So if they're gonna compare the two hopefully will employ decent ddr5 to show off 12th gen in good light.


----------



## sugi0lover

Only in 2 days after the launch of 12900KS in Korea, it's not hard to see SP95+ (genaral, not P SP) in Korean PC forum.
1 SP97, 2 SP96, 3 SP95
And they perform like SP100+ 12900K.


----------



## Nizzen

domdtxdissar said:


> 12900k - 190 fps
> 12900KS - 200 fps
> 5800X3D - 290 fps
> 
> Confirmed test done at 720p
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1512151405615849477
> _edit_
> 12900KS - 200 fps average
> 5800X3D - 231 fps average
> View attachment 2555220


Intel system: *DDR5-4800C40*

Actual epic fail.....









PRIMER resultado EN GAMING del AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D


PRIMER resultado EN GAMING del AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Tenemos el primer resultado EN GAMING del procesador AMD Ryzen 7




xanxogaming.com


----------



## RobertoSampaio

I'd like to post a warning!
Be care when proceeding a critical update! Especially firmware / BIOS updates...

Keep in mind your Overclock could not be 100% stable, and it can fail during a critical update process, especially firmware updates. 

It doesn't matter if your CPU, Memory, under voltage or any other setting looks like stable for long time... 

If you are going to proceed a critical update, there is a chance of failure... and a failure at this point will be catastrophic and a possibility of a brick event is real.

I extremely recommend every time you are going to do a BIOS update or firmware update, save your settings, load a BIOS default and use standard CPU frequencies, voltages and memory clocks during the update process.

A fault at this time can brick your MB and CPU.

Adopt a good practice of saving your BIOS settings in a free slot and load Bios default before all hardware update.

If you have a dual BIOS MB, always load BIOS defaults before and after switching from one BIOs TO the other.
I know it's no a pleasure process, and take time... but The time you will spend to umbrick your MB or RMA is much long and painful...

I hope I'm helping you with this simple advice !

You are not a beta tester, and you're supposed to have fun overclocking...

Keep safe and alive....

High voltages ad high frequencies will not burn your hardware... High power and High temps will... and a overclock failure at a critical moment will brick your MB/CPU. 

Hope I can help with these simple advices.


----------



## Falkentyne

RobertoSampaio said:


> I'd like to post a warning!
> Be care when proceeding a critical update! Especially firmware / BIOS updates...
> 
> Keep in mind your Overclock could not be 100% stable, and it can fail during a critical update process, especially firmware updates.
> 
> It doesn't matter if your CPU, Memory, under voltage or any other setting looks like stable for long time...
> 
> If you are going to proceed a critical update, there is a chance of failure... and a failure at this point will be catastrophic and a possibility of a brick event is real.
> 
> I extremely recommend every time you are going to do a BIOS update or firmware update, save your settings, load a BIOS default and use standard CPU frequencies, voltages and memory clocks during the update process.
> 
> A fault at this time can brick your MB and CPU.
> 
> Adopt a good practice of saving your BIOS settings in a free slot and load Bios default before all hardware update.
> 
> If you have a dual BIOS MB, always load BIOS defaults before and after switching from one BIOs TO the other.
> I know it's no a pleasure process, and take time... but The time you will spend to umbrick your MB or RMA is much long and painful...
> 
> I hope I'm helping you with this simple advice !
> 
> You are not a beta tester, and you're supposed to have fun overclocking...
> 
> Keep safe and alive....
> 
> High voltages ad high frequencies will not burn your hardware... High power and High temps will... and a overclock failure at a critical moment will brick your MB/CPU.
> 
> Hope I can help with these simple advices.


I want to clarify:

if you have a dual bios board that has extra firmwares that get updated, and you want to switch to the backup BIOS and the backup and the main BIOS do NOT MATCH (meaning: they are different versions), if you are using a motherboard that does extra firmware updates when switching bioses (e.g. Asus "Updating Aura LED firmware", "BIOS is updating...." (This is EC firmware update)), if possible, please load bios defaults and then save the settings before switching to the other BIOS. And if the other BIOS already has an overclock setting (meaning its impossible to load bios defaults before booting it), please switch to the BIOS with the BIOS jumper, then press the clear CMOS button before powering on the computer. It will then clear CMOS first, then it will boot the BIOS afterwards, and any firmware linked to that BIOS version will be flashed with stable CPU settings (JEDEC RAM and stock CPU clocks). A simple press of the clear CMOS button after switching to a backup BIOS with high by core usage single core overclocks should be sufficient.

Not sure if the safe boot button will serve the same purpose (never tested that on a BIOS switch before booting).

Trying to switch to a BIOS that has an active yeeted single core overclock can risk crashing the CPU during the firmware flash linked to that BIOS, leaving you with a brick, as that single core clock may not be as stable as you think, and you would obviously never try to flash a firmware with a possibly unstable CPU overclock.

If you are using sync all cores and a decently stable overclock (e.g. R23 30 minutes stable), then you should be fine, as the firmware upgrade should not crash under a single thread, but you still need to make sure you are not trying to boot to a BIOS switch with massively unstable memory clocks saved on it either--e.g. memory settings so unstable that you black screen while trying to POST, etc--that can also ruin your day when switching Bioses.

Gigabyte boards don't have an extra EC that is flashed with a dual BIOS change, as far as I know, so you should be ok with their dual bios switching.


----------



## marti69

david12900k said:


> As you guys requested:
> 12900KS - SP 98
> P-Core SP: 105
> E-Core SP: 85
> Bios: 1403
> MB: z690 Apex
> Running EK Velocity 2 waterblock with a MO-RA3 420 and 480mm (60mm thick) rad
> Ambient Temp: 68.9 F
> 
> P-Cores: 52
> E-Cores: 40
> Cache: 40
> LLC 6
> Global Core SVID Voltage (Manual) (Bios Set): 1.13v
> 
> Stable for 3 Runs of C23 AND C20
> 
> 1.10v Vcore Crashed instantly
> 1.11v Vcore crashed instantly
> 1.12v Vcore stable for 3 runs of C20 and 4 minutes of r23, but crashed
> 1.13v Vcore stable for 3 runs of C20 and 10 minutes of r23, no crashes  crashed at minute 13, next run crashed at minute 6
> 
> Max C23 Temps:
> 65 C on package
> 65 C on core 5


whats your batch number? is your cpu made in china or vietnam?


----------



## Skyhopper01

david12900k said:


> I just don't get how I can run 5.4 all core at a decent stage and low (80's) temps, but I can't run 5.5 all core at all. Anyone have any tips?


I did some more tuning on my chip and I am able to run 5.4ghz all core in gaming workloads @1.36v. I did not test cinebench as I strictly test for my use case, doubt it would pass though at voltage.


----------



## fat4l

On asus strix boards, which one do we use and what is the difference between these 2 to have a manual voltage set so we can compare the cpus? I;'m kind of confused now.

global core svid voltage or actual vrm core voltage


----------



## J_Lab4645

david12900k said:


> 12900KS
> SP 98
> P core SP: 105
> E core SP: 85
> 
> C23 - Stable for 30 minute run
> Score (5.4/4.3): 30453
> P-Cores: 5.4 Ghz
> E-Cores: 4.3 Ghz
> Stable 5.4 GHz (E cores 43): Bios set 1.299v (working on getting this lower) (1.208 in HWInfo)
> Stable 5.4 Ghz (E cores 40): Bios set 1.284v
> 
> View attachment 2555152


----------



## OffBeatViBE

Do you guys mostly do all core oc with removed power limits etc or curve oc with TVB ?
My 12900k is pretty basic chip and I remember I could barely get the following overclock stable:
[email protected]/E3.9/Ring 4.2/[email protected] gear 1(1:1)
1.370v(underload 1.350), 1.300 SA Voltage, 1.420 Dram voltage but with OCTVB I was able to get few cores running at 5.5 and 5.4 and in games Im mostly at 5.3 all core with pretty good voltage. Im wondering if I should update my bios to a newer one because I have the 2nd one released for my MB which is Asus Z690-P D4 and try all core oc again....


----------



## fat4l

Just quickly tested 5.3g...can't really get it stable.
Maybe I'm missing some setting in bios?
And not sure if we are supposed to be setting global core svid voltage or actual vrm core voltage...to set manual vcore.kinda lost now haha


----------



## sugi0lover

Three 12900KS out of Batch V203H~


























Also SP98 12900KS posted by *@david12900k *out out V203H~
But 2 12900KS out of same batch is SP 92, 87, so plz don't generalize


----------



## fat4l

Well not sure if SP means that lot anyways.. mine us 100sp p core and can't even stabilise 5.3G.....or I'm doing something wrong in bios. I jumped from 2014 4790k to now. ..so loads changed

On the other side der8auer couldn't get 5.3G CB20 stable for 2 our of his 3 kS chips so...


----------



## david12900k

Is anyone here able to get 4.3 e-cores to pass cinebench r23 for 3 runs of 30 minutes?


----------



## jomama22

fat4l said:


> Well not sure if SP means that lot anyways.. mine us 100sp p core and can't even stabilise 5.3G.....or I'm doing something wrong in bios. I jumped from 2014 4790k to now. ..so loads changed
> 
> On the other side der8auer couldn't get 5.3G CB20 stable for 2 our of his 3 kS chips so...


Again, it is all very much temperature related. My 96 p-core sp kf passes r23 with 1.26v load (die sense) with a package temp of 80* (84 highest core) @5.3. 

These chips need cooling, pure and simple. Once you break the 80-85* barrier, g/l getting another 100mhz out of it. Reducing temps also reduces the needed voltage for a given clock. Each Chip will behave differently given different temperature ranges. Lummi, for example, couldn't get past 5.4 if his package temp ever increased over 70*.

Sp is just a generalization based on some average vid from a bunch of samples. Then, some alog increases or decreases a given sp some amount based on a chips fused vid compared to that baseline average, that's it. It's a nice way of comparing VIDs, but isn't any real indication of how well a chip will clock. Some chips just hate voltage, some chips are leaky and will take all the voltage you can throw at it (given enough cooling).


----------



## david12900k

jomama22 said:


> Again, it is all very much temperature related. My 96 p-core sp kf passes r23 with 1.26v load (die sense) with a package temp of 80* (84 highest core) @5.3.
> 
> These chips need cooling, pure and simple. Once you break the 80-85* barrier, g/l getting another 100mhz out of it. Reducing temps also reduces the needed voltage for a given clock. Each Chip will behave differently given different temperature ranges. Lummi, for example, couldn't get past 5.4 if his package temp ever increased over 70*.
> 
> Sp is just a generalization based on some average vid from a bunch of samples. Then, some alog increases or decreases a given sp some amount based on a chips fused vid compared to that baseline average, that's it. It's a nice way of comparing VIDs, but isn't any real indication of how well a chip will clock. Some chips just hate voltage, some chips are leaky and will take all the voltage you can throw at it (given enough cooling).


These new KS are pretty great. Im able to run 5.4Ghz all core at 1.208v (Measured in HWInfo vcore) at 80c


----------



## jomama22

david12900k said:


> These new KS are pretty great. Im able to run 5.4Ghz all core at 1.208v (Measured in HWInfo vcore) at 80c


Yes, my chip is very much flat average compared to every 12900k/kf. Was merely making a point. And as you are having trouble getting beyond 5.4, only goes to show the issue with temperature.

You have a very good KS sample as it stands, would definitely not look at it as the norm (debauer's video and others experiences being on other places on the spectrum)


----------



## IronAge

Think we got a winner here ... not mine, from a german, UEFI 1403. Batch V204H487.


----------



## Nizzen

IronAge said:


> Think we got a winner here ... not mine, from a german, UEFI 1403. Batch V204H487.


Oooof


----------



## Bluerain

My 12900KS
Made in China
Batch:V150J430T


----------



## deceptiv23

Should I bother with the 12900ks with an early 12900k that is 95 sp and can hit 5.3 p core at 1.285? I’m assuming my chip would have just been a ks now?


----------



## david12900k

deceptiv23 said:


> Should I bother with the 12900ks with an early 12900k that is 95 sp and can hit 5.3 p core at 1.285? I’m assuming my chip would have just been a ks now?


If you can cool your 5.3 all core, keep it. My KS has SP 105 p cores and can do 5.4 all core under 80c, but I have a top 2% chip. We still don't have a ton of actual overclocking data, but a lot of KS's can't do 5.4 all core, so you would be gambling for at most +100 Mhz all core OC for $150 more


----------



## deceptiv23

Do you have to disable e cores to do that or with all cores enabled?


----------



## Ichirou

IronAge said:


> Think we got a winner here ... not mine, from a german, UEFI 1403. Batch V204H487.


What kind of garbage cooler is that dude using that chip with? LMAO


deceptiv23 said:


> Should I bother with the 12900ks with an early 12900k that is 95 sp and can hit 5.3 p core at 1.285? I’m assuming my chip would have just been a ks now?


5.4+ GHz (esp. all-core) are really only for hardcore overclockers, likely with custom waterloops. Be content with 5.2-5.3 GHz all-core.


deceptiv23 said:


> Do you have to disable e cores to do that or with all cores enabled?


Depends on what you want personally. E-cores off = less heat/higher thermal headroom for cache clock + availability of AVX-512 if your chip supports it.


----------



## david12900k

deceptiv23 said:


> Do you have to disable e cores to do that or with all cores enabled?


Nope my e cores are always on


----------



## Nizzen

Ichirou said:


> What kind of garbage cooler is that dude using that chip with? LMAO
> 
> 5.4+ GHz (esp. all-core) are really only for hardcore overclockers, likely with custom waterloops. Be content with 5.2-5.3 GHz all-core.
> 
> Depends on what you want personally. E-cores off = less heat/higher thermal headroom for cache clock + availability of AVX-512 if your chip supports it.


Binning cpu's with 4770k stock cooler from years ago, is my guess 
I did the same LOL


----------



## IronAge

Nizzen said:


> Binning cpu's with 4770k stock cooler from years ago, is my guess
> I did the same LOL


As far as i have understood he used 1700 Boxed heatsink.


----------



## Ichirou

IronAge said:


> As far as i have understood he used 1700 Boxed heatsink.


The 12900 comes with its own cooler?


----------



## IronAge

Ichirou said:


> The 12900 comes with its own cooler?


Nope, but i5 12400 does.


----------



## Ichirou

IronAge said:


> Nope, but i5 12400 does.


So the guy has both a 12400 and a godly 12900...

Ask him if his 12900 is available for sale; he probably doesn't even know it's good and will sell it for a decent premium


----------



## Gadfly

Well... My 12900KS is here. SP 86, P cores: 91, E Cores 76. I have to admit, I am really disappointed.

Vietnam, Batch X203N634, Purchased from Newegg; already requested the return and exchange. 

***


----------



## Ichirou

Gadfly said:


> Well... My 12900KS is here. SP 86, P cores: 91, E Cores 76. I have to admit, I am really disappointed.
> 
> Vietnam, Batch X203N634, Purchased from Newegg; already requested the return and exchange.
> 
> ***


Doesn't that already make it roughly equivalent to a P-core SP 95-100 chip? Don't see the point of exchanging it unless you're trying to bin more than 5.2-5.3 GHz all-core.


----------



## xarot

12900KS

SP97
P 107
E 78

Well, at least sounds more promising than SP85 12900K (almost impossible to cool on water). Same SP with UEFI 1101 and latest UEFI on MZ690E.


----------



## Ichirou

xarot said:


> 12900KS
> 
> SP97
> P 107
> E 78
> 
> Well, at least sounds more promising than SP85 12900K (almost impossible to cool on water). Same SP with UEFI 1101 and latest UEFI on MZ690E.


That's gonna let you hit 5.4 GHz at a decent voltage for sure, pretty much


----------



## deceptiv23

Newegg will let you return for refund or exchange because you got a poorer bin?

I’m not a hardcore overclocker but my sp95 12900k can do 5.3 p cores, 41 ring, and 41 e cores at 1.270v avx 0 llc4 package temp of 80c - I’m tempted to get the KS but I’m assuming my odds of getting a better chip are pretty low eh?


----------



## Gadfly

Ichirou said:


> Doesn't that already make it roughly equivalent to a P-core SP 95-100 chip? Don't see the point of exchanging it unless you're trying to bin more than 5.2-5.3 GHz all-core.


I am not buying a special edition CPU and super special edition prices just to get a mediocre piece of crap. I happily play the silicone lottery, but not when I am paying specifically not to play the lottery.


----------



## Ichirou

deceptiv23 said:


> Newegg will let you return bf or refund or exchange because you got a poorer bin?


Newegg won't allow returns; exchange only. But you gotta make an excuse.


----------



## Gadfly

deceptiv23 said:


> Newegg will let you return bf or refund or exchange because you got a poorer bin?


Yes. It doesn't do what is printed on the side of the box.


----------



## Ichirou

Gadfly said:


> I am not buying a special edition CPU and super special edition prices just to get a mediocre piece of crap. I happily play the silicone lottery, but not when I am paying specifically not to play the lottery.


You got what you were promised from Intel. A chip that can turbo up to 5.5 GHz on a single core.
They don't guarantee voltages.


----------



## Gadfly

Ichirou said:


> Newegg won't allow returns; exchange only. But you gotta make an excuse.





Ichirou said:


> You got what you were promised from Intel. A chip that can turbo up to 5.5 GHz on a single core.
> They don't guarantee voltages.


Running stock, it has not turbo'd up to 5.5 max peak was 5.3.


----------



## Ichirou

Gadfly said:


> Running stock, it has not turbo'd up to 5.5 max peak was 5.3.


Do you have an adequate cooler to actually boost up to 5.5?


----------



## Gadfly

Ichirou said:


> Do you have an adequate cooler to actually boost up to 5.5?


it was running on the test bench with an "EK elite 360mm AIO", fans in push pull.


----------



## bass junkie xl

Bluerain said:


> My 12900KS
> Made in China
> Batch:V150J430T
> View attachment 2555297
> View attachment 2555298
> View attachment 2555299


waiting on my dead rma strix z690 D4 to come today i have un opned 12900ks with your same batch from china but

My 12900KS
Made in China
Batch:V150J234T

will postthe sp but i only have bios 1304 on the strix z690 D4 dono if that changes anything


----------



## david12900k

xarot said:


> 12900KS
> 
> SP97
> P 107
> E 78
> 
> Well, at least sounds more promising than SP85 12900K (almost impossible to cool on water). Same SP with UEFI 1101 and latest UEFI on MZ690E.


Those are some great p cores!


----------



## Ichirou

Gadfly said:


> it was running on the test bench with an "EK elite 360mm AIO", fans in push pull.











Temper your expectations. The chip is working as intended. Sustained high clocks are only for people with insane water loops.
An all-core of 5.1-5.2 GHz with the occasional boosting to 5.3-5.5 GHz is more realistic for the average consumer.


----------



## Gadfly

Ichirou said:


> Temper your expectations. The chip is working as intended. Sustained high clocks are only for people with insane water loops.
> An all-core of 5.1-5.2 GHz with the occasional boosting to 5.3-5.5 GHz is more realistic for the average consumer.


Yeah no. It isn't. I am not talking about sustained high clocks while running P95 here; just doing stock, what it says it will do stock on the side of the box. Again, if it was a normal 12900k and it was a crap bin, NP, you play the lottery sometimes you win, most of the time you don't.

That isn't the case here, It is a pre-binned special edition $800 CPU that is mediocre at best that does not do what it says on the side of the box; thus it was RMA'd as defective and the replacement is on it's way. If I have to exchange 10 of them to get one that really works as intended, that is what I will do.

Once I get one that does work as intended (And Asus replaces the Z690 Apex with a bad memory slot), then it will go in the case with the massive open loop and we will see what it can do when overclocked.


----------



## -VSS-

IronAge said:


> Think we got a winner here ... not mine, from a german, UEFI 1403. Batch V204H487.


it's my processor, @ 1403 Bios SP 121 , @ Bios v0702 SP 136


----------



## Ichirou

-VSS- said:


> it's my processor, @ 1403 Bios SP 121 , @ Bios v0702 SP 136
> View attachment 2555328


Now we know which batch to look out for


----------



## Ichirou

Gadfly said:


> Yeah no. It isn't. I am not talking about sustained high clocks while running P95 here; just doing stock, what it says it will do stock on the side of the box. Again, if it was a normal 12900k and it was a crap bin, NP, you play the lottery sometimes you win, most of the time you don't.
> 
> That isn't the case here, It is a pre-binned special edition $800 CPU that is mediocre at best that does not do what it says on the side of the box; thus it was RMA'd as defective and the replacement is on it's way. If I have to exchange 10 of them to get one that really works as intended, that is what I will do.
> 
> Once I get one that does work as intended (And Asus replaces the Z690 Apex with a bad memory slot), then it will go in the case with the massive open loop and we will see what it can do when overclocked.


Must feel great to contribute to worldwide increasing electronic waste as Newegg/Intel ditches stock marked as defective.
I sure hope they test and send back the same chip over and over.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Gadfly said:


> Well... My 12900KS is here. SP 86, P cores: 91, E Cores 76. I have to admit, I am really disappointed.
> 
> Vietnam, Batch X203N634, Purchased from Newegg; already requested the return and exchange.
> 
> ***


Damn exact same batch as mine and my chip is great. Sorry to hear urs was less than desired. May the God's smile more favorably on you next time.


----------



## -VSS-

Exactly there is a problem with reading SP correctly in the BIOS,


----------



## Gadfly

Ichirou said:


> Must feel great to contribute to worldwide increasing electronic waste as Newegg/Intel ditches stock marked as defective.
> I sure hope they test and send back the same chip over and over.


Why would I feel bad about returning a defective CPU and getting it exchanged? If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at intel for not doing a better job binning CPU's.

And no, they won't. Advanced replacement on the way.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

-VSS- said:


> it's my processor, @ 1403 Bios SP 121 , @ Bios v0702 SP 136
> View attachment 2555328


Post some clocks and voltages por favor!!!


----------



## -VSS-

I have to wait a moment longer, I have to prepare the computer case


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

-VSS- said:


> I have to wait a moment longer, I have to prepare the computer case


What a specimen. Waiting with baited breath. Really making me want to get an Asus board to get some damn sp ratings on the rest of my chips.


----------



## xarot

Hmm...12900KS boost to 5.5 at stock should basically occur when no other process is messing up the clocks on the background. Wait a few minutes after a clean boot, kill everything down, run R15 single core and leave HWInfo on the background, check if any core has boosted to 5.5.


----------



## Gadfly

xarot said:


> Hmm...12900KS boost to 5.5 at stock should basically occur when no other process is messing up the clocks on the background. Wait a few minutes after a clean boot, kill everything down, run R15 single core and leave HWInfo on the background, check if any core has boosted to 5.5.


did that, core 4&5 hit @5.3, the rest hit @5.2


----------



## -VSS-

and I bought an ASUS board to check SP, SP alone is not everything but high SP is a good start


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Gadfly said:


> did that, core 4&5 hit @5.3, the rest hit @5.2


Stock was trash on my chip. Runs super hot and only maintained 5.2 at much higher volts and temps than it's capable of running 5.5 all core manually. Try running a manual OC. Start like 1.25V and see how it clocks.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Stock was trash on my chip. Runs super hot and only maintained 5.2 at much higher volts and temps than it's capable of running 5.5 all core manually. Try running a manual OC. Start like 1.25V and see how it clocks.


Doubt he'll waste time since he's hellbent on getting an SP200 chip.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Whoops double post


----------



## Falkentyne

Gadfly said:


> did that, core 4&5 hit @5.3, the rest hit @5.2


Did you test the chip?
Boost clocks are an issue with the BIOS. Asus boards are known to keep a previous chip's VID table when switching CPU's. One person even said it used the old chip's SP and VID table when he switched chips and reloaded a saved profile (so he wouldn't have to re-do memory settings).

Set your chip to the following:
5.4 ghz sync all cores (P cores: 5.4 ghz), E cores 4.0 ghz, Ring: 4.0 ghz
Actual VRM Core Voltage: 1.42v (Bios set).
LLC: Level 6

(I'm assuming you have an Asus board).
Run Cinebench R23 10 times loop.
If it passes, run R15 10 times in a row as fast as possible.

If your chip passes, you have an above average chip that had a lower than expected SP rating that performs better than indicated, and then you can see if you can lower the vcore even more.


----------



## fat4l

Ok my friend brough his chip over today.

All limits removed.

5.2G
1.23v llc6
Showing 1.99v load
CB23 pass stable

5.3G
1.31 llc6
Showing 1.27v under load
CB23 pass

SP90
P core 98
E core 76

Btw my chip is showing P core 100 but can't do 5.3G at all..... His chip 98 and can do. Hmmmm


----------



## Gadfly

Falkentyne said:


> Did you test the chip?
> Boost clocks are an issue with the BIOS. Asus boards are known to keep a previous chip's VID table when switching CPU's. One person even said it used the old chip's SP and VID table when he switched chips and reloaded a saved profile (so he wouldn't have to re-do memory settings).
> 
> Set your chip to the following:
> 5.4 ghz sync all cores (P cores: 5.4 ghz), E cores 4.0 ghz, Ring: 4.0 ghz
> Actual VRM Core Voltage: 1.42v (Bios set).
> LLC: Level 6
> 
> (I'm assuming you have an Asus board).
> Run Cinebench R23 10 times loop.
> If it passes, run R15 10 times in a row as fast as possible.
> 
> If your chip passes, you have an above average chip that had a lower than expected SP rating that performs better than indicated, and then you can see if you can lower the vcore even more.


it will not boot with those settings.


----------



## Falkentyne

Gadfly said:


> it will not boot with those settings.


You mean it won't load windows or it won't even get into BIOS?
Not getting into BIOS with those settings sounds like a very questionable CPU to me.
Good luck on the exchange.


----------



## nickolp1974

Falkentyne said:


> Did you test the chip?
> Boost clocks are an issue with the BIOS. Asus boards are known to keep a previous chip's VID table when switching CPU's. One person even said it used the old chip's SP and VID table when he switched chips and reloaded a saved profile (so he wouldn't have to re-do memory settings).
> 
> Set your chip to the following:
> 5.4 ghz sync all cores (P cores: 5.4 ghz), E cores 4.0 ghz, Ring: 4.0 ghz
> Actual VRM Core Voltage: 1.42v (Bios set).
> LLC: Level 6
> 
> (I'm assuming you have an Asus board).
> Run Cinebench R23 10 times loop.
> If it passes, run R15 10 times in a row as fast as possible.
> 
> If your chip passes, you have an above average chip that had a lower than expected SP rating that performs better than indicated, and then you can see if you can lower the vcore even more.


mine wont even do that once!!


----------



## jomama22

Gadfly said:


> Why would I feel bad about returning a defective CPU and getting it exchanged? If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at intel for not doing a better job binning CPU's.
> 
> And no, they won't. Advanced replacement on the way.


Honestly, if you're going the buy/return route, you should really just get it from best buy. Much better return policy and you don't have to deal with Newegg rma. You can return it just for not wanting it anymore and get your money back.


----------



## xarot

Is it still good trying to find highest allcore P-cores max clocks? 5.6 max bootable on NH-D15 at 1.35V and 5.5 at 1.285V. Didn't try higher, can't run any proper tests at this voltage, speed and cooling. If I remember correctly I never got my 12900K to boot to desktop at 5.4. Haven't been playing around too much yet with voltages and LLC of 12900KS.


----------



## Ichirou

xarot said:


> Is it still good trying to find highest allcore P-cores max clocks? 5.6 max bootable on NH-D15 at 1.35V and 5.5 at 1.285V. Didn't try higher, can't run any proper tests at this voltage, speed and cooling. If I remember correctly I never got my 12900K to boot to desktop at 5.4. Haven't been playing around too much yet with voltages and LLC of 12900KS.


No point unless you have a custom water loop.
A lot of CPUs will be bootable at high frequencies and high voltage, but that doesn't mean it is stable.


----------



## sugi0lover

IronAge said:


> Think we got a winner here ... not mine, from a german, UEFI 1403. Batch V204H487.


E core clock doesn't look right. Doubt sp bug or temp related?
All SP90+ 12900KS I have seen e core above 4000Mhz under prediction.

Look at this 12900ks sp bug and e core clock.
SP bug on 0703 bios Hero board. On recent bios, SP changed to 84.


----------



## xarot

Ichirou said:


> No point unless you have a custom water loop.
> A lot of CPUs will be bootable at high frequencies and high voltage, but that doesn't mean it is stable.


Thanks, yeah usually been doing this on various CPUs when trying to see what could be even possible or not, then backing off a few multipliers when trying to find a nice voltage and full stability. I guess I'll have to go and fetch my test bench with custom WC from the basement.


----------



## Falkentyne

You guys have to test your chips. Start at 5.3 ghz.
This guy has one of the lowest SP 12900KS's and look what he can do.



> *MasterRBT — Today at 3:04 PM*
> Just installed the KS. SP87
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _[_3:04 PM_]_
> 5.3/4.4 - 4.1 ecores need 1.163v underload for R23 230W. My K SP91 needs 1.190v underload


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

xarot said:


> Is it still good trying to find highest allcore P-cores max clocks? 5.6 max bootable on NH-D15 at 1.35V and 5.5 at 1.285V. Didn't try higher, can't run any proper tests at this voltage, speed and cooling. If I remember correctly I never got my 12900K to boot to desktop at 5.4. Haven't been playing around too much yet with voltages and LLC of 12900KS.


Might be a great chip. Ur just gonna be real cooling limited. So hard to test


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Falkentyne said:


> You guys have to test your chips. Start at 5.3 ghz.
> This guy has one of the lowest SP 12900KS's and look what he can do.


Yep I wish people would post voltages and clockspeeds rather than JUST sp ratings. Would be fun to get a collection of this information


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Yep I wish people would post voltages and clockspeeds rather than JUST sp ratings. Would be fun to get a collection of this information


SP ratings were accurate enough for the K/KF, but that's because ASUS already coded their initial BIOSes to account for them.
The KS is a new chip so things will be a little inaccurate except maybe on the latest BIOS.


sugi0lover said:


> E core clock doesn't look right. Doubt sp bug or temp related?
> All SP90+ 12900KS I have seen show e core above 4000Mhz under prediction.
> 
> Look at this 12900ks sp bug and e core clock.
> SP bug on 0703 bios Hero board. On recent bios, SP changed to 84.
> View attachment 2555350


Chip for sale ? lol


----------



## sugi0lover

_Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...

Fyi, I posted the comparision results of SP103 12900K, SP95 12900KS, SP96 12900KS on Cine23 10 min.
Voltages can be different from each person's setting, but this result came from one guy with the same setup.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> Fyi, I posted the comparision results of SP103 12900K, SP95 12900KS, SP96 12900KS on Cine23 10 min.
> Voltages can be different from each person's setting, but this result came from one guy with the same setup.


Great info. I'm working out a deal for an ASUS mobo right now. Hoping to upload SP ratings and voltage/clock scaling for all my chips and contribute as well.


----------



## david12900k

sugi0lover said:


> _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> Fyi, I posted the comparision results of SP103 12900K, SP95 12900KS, SP96 12900KS on Cine23 10 min.
> Voltages can be different from each person's setting, but this result came from one guy with the same setup.


Where are you guys measuring your voltages?


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Great info. I'm working out a deal for an ASUS mobo right now. Hoping to upload SP ratings and voltage/clock scaling for all my chips and contribute as well.


I wouldn't bother. It's really not that big of a deal. As long as you test the minimum Vcore required for 53/4X/4X on a few runs of CB23, it's good enough to compare to others.
An LLC value that's easy to compare to is one that has minimum Vdroop/overshoot, so the Vcore is an accurate maximum.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

@sugi0lover has anyone ever done any sort of e core SP rating vs clockspeeds etc? I know we focus alot more on P cores but I'm curious what's considered good e cores from an SP rating and also clockspeeds. Seems most well cooled 12900K/KF/KS chips will do 4.2-4.3 and some better ones do 4.4. Any idea how those clocks correlate with SP rating?


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ichirou said:


> I wouldn't bother. It's really not that big of a deal. As long as you test the minimum Vcore required for 53/4X/4X on a few runs of CB23, it's good enough to compare to others.
> An LLC value that's easy to compare to is one that has minimum Vdroop/overshoot, so the Vcore is an accurate maximum.


I just can't seem to find any sort of voltage/clockspeed scaling in correlation with SP score. I'm a stats nerd and can't curb my desire to know where all my chips land on the SP score scale. Lol.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> @sugi0lover has anyone ever done any sort of e core SP rating vs clockspeeds etc? I know we focus alot more on P cores but I'm curious what's considered good e cores from an SP rating and also clockspeeds. Seems most well cooled 12900K/KF/KS chips will do 4.2-4.3 and some better ones do 4.4. Any idea how those clocks correlate with SP rating?


SkatterBencher has found that the Vcore is shared between the P-cores, E-cores, and Cache. So the SP score simply indicates how well the cores are in relation to a specific set Vcore.

If you set 1.30V Vcore to achieve 5.2 GHz all-core frequency for your 12900K/KF P-cores, depending on how good the E-cores are, it could give you anywhere from 3.0 to 5.0 GHz for your E-cores. You can't force the E-cores to boost any higher without raising the Vcore further. (So an E-core SP of 75 might do 3.8 GHz, while an SP of 80 might do 4.3 GHz, at the same Vcore.) And since the E-cores contribute to overall heat, that limits your potential for raising the Cache clock, even if it could go higher due to the Vcore. But if we rule out heat, then the Cache could go as high as 1.30V Vcore allows.


Mylittlepwny2 said:


> I just can't seem to find any sort of voltage/clockspeed scaling in correlation with SP score. I'm a stats nerd and can't curb my desire to know where all my chips land on the SP score scale. Lol.


I'm not sure whether it's possible on EVGA, but on MSI, you can disable all but a single core and then reopen the BIOS to see the baseline Vcore readout when set to the turbo multiplier with adaptive voltage.


----------



## sugi0lover

david12900k said:


> Where are you guys measuring your voltages?


The traditional way is 'Actual VRM Core Voltages'
The new 'Global Core SVID Voltages' can be lower than the traditional way according to my friend.
I use the traditional way, so I don't know.



Mylittlepwny2 said:


> @sugi0lover has anyone ever done any sort of e core SP rating vs clockspeeds etc? I know we focus alot more on P cores but I'm curious what's considered good e cores from an SP rating and also clockspeeds. Seems most well cooled 12900K/KF/KS chips will do 4.2-4.3 and some better ones do 4.4. Any idea how those clocks correlate with SP rating?


For 12900K, SP is calculated like this, so e core sp is related to general SP.
Genaral SP = (P-SP x 16 + E-SP x 8) / 24


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ichirou said:


> SkatterBencher has found that the Vcore is shared between the P-cores, E-cores, and Cache. So the SP score simply indicates how well the cores are in relation to a specific set Vcore.
> 
> If you set 1.30V Vcore to achieve 5.2 GHz all-core frequency for your 12900K/KF P-cores, depending on how good the E-cores are, it could give you anywhere from 3.0 to 5.0 GHz for your E-cores. You can't force the E-cores to boost any higher without raising the Vcore further. (So an E-core SP of 75 might do 3.8 GHz, while an SP of 80 might do 4.3 GHz, at the same Vcore.) And since the E-cores contribute to overall heat, that limits your potential for raising the Cache clock, even if it could go higher due to the Vcore. But if we rule out heat, then the Cache could go as high as 1.30V Vcore allows.
> 
> I'm not sure whether it's possible on EVGA, but on MSI, you can disable all but a single core and then reopen the BIOS to see the baseline Vcore readout when set to the turbo multiplier with adaptive voltage.


Yeah but I think evga baseline is different from ASUS. For instance my chip by default is around .957V bios idle voltage. I've seen most people with asus boards idling at like ~1.1-1.2V. When bios is at complete default settings. So I'm not sure they are directly comparable outside of different chips in the same motherboard.


----------



## Gadfly

Falkentyne said:


> You guys have to test your chips. Start at 5.3 ghz.
> This guy has one of the lowest SP 12900KS's and look what he can do.


sure…. To run 1 pass of CB R23:

static v-core, e-cores disabled, llc 6:

5.2ghz, 1.234v

5.3ghz, will not run


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Yeah but I think evga baseline is different from ASUS. For instance my chip by default is around .957V bios idle voltage. I've seen most people with asus boards idling at like ~1.1-1.2V. When bios is at complete default settings. So I'm not sure they are directly comparable outside of different chips in the same motherboard.


Then it's easier to just find the minimum Vcore required to pass R23 at 53/4X/4X all-core. That'll be the Vcore that's required for the _worst_ P-core on your chip at 53x.
No reason to pay a few hundred just to get a board to check some numbers, which may or may not be accurate depending on the BIOS and other factors like KS, lol.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ichirou said:


> Then it's easier to just find the minimum Vcore required to pass R23 at 53/4X/4X all-core. That'll be the Vcore that's required for the _worst_ P-core on your chip.
> No reason to pay a few hundred just to get a board to check some numbers, which may or may not be accurate depending on the BIOS and other factors, lol.


I'll check tonight. I cannot remember what my minimum voltage for 5.3 was. I know for 5.4 my best chip will pass at ~1.20V (1.194-1.206 as measured from VR VOUT aka Die sense voltage on the Dark). That equates to 1.23V set voltage with -75% llc. Not sure how helpful that is. But I'll check 5.3 tonight and get back to you. I wish I could find this data to directly compare against and atleast get an approximate my SP ratings. Haha I feel so left out of all the cool kids!


----------



## sugi0lover

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> I just can't seem to find any sort of voltage/clockspeed scaling in correlation with SP score. I'm a stats nerd and can't curb my desire to know where all my chips land on the SP score scale. Lol.


[Edit] On cold day, my sp104 12900K (p115 e82) could run e 4.4 / p 5.6, but most of time I used e 4.3.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> I'll check tonight. I cannot remember what my minimum voltage for 5.3 was. I know for 5.4 my best chip will pass at ~1.20V (1.194-1.206 as measured from VR VOUT aka Die sense voltage on the Dark). That equates to 1.23V set voltage with -75% llc. Not sure how helpful that is. But I'll check 5.3 tonight and get back to you. I wish I could find this data to directly compare against and atleast get an approximate my SP ratings. Haha I feel so left out of all the cool kids!


Just be sure to do a few runs to heat up the loop, since sometimes it might pass in short bursts.

After you find your minimum Vcore, just look through some past posts to find comparable voltages, and that's roughly going to be your P-core SP.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> On cold day, my sp104 12900K (p106 e74) could run e 4.4 / p 5.6, but most of time I used e 4.3.
> View attachment 2555353


What was ambient temps? 10C?


----------



## sugi0lover

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> What was ambient temps? 10C?


Ambient temp was around 23C, but only my mora420 was out on balcony. (PC inside the room)
Don't know the temp of balcony ^^


----------



## IronAge

sugi0lover said:


> Look at this 12900ks sp bug and e core clock.
> SP bug on 0703 bios Hero board. On recent bios, SP changed to 84.


With factory Bios 0702 he had SP136, with 1403 SP121, even if there is a bug @5.5 with 1.456V LLC L4 can't be bad.
Another one got one from the same Batch @5.5 with 1.43V LLC L4.

These look a bit brighter than the few ones i have seen in the forums so far, guess we will soon see how shiny they actually are.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> On cold day, my sp104 12900K (p106 e74) could run e 4.4 / p 5.6, but most of time I used e 4.3.
> View attachment 2555353


5.6/4.4/4.6 at only 1.40V max? Damn. That seems low for P-core SP of 106? Or is there a vast difference between P-core SP of 100 and 106?


----------



## fat4l

Looking at the results so far it looks like the best 12900K are still better than 12900KS.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ichirou said:


> Just be sure to do a few runs to heat up the loop, since sometimes it might pass in short bursts.
> 
> After you find your minimum Vcore, just look through some past posts to find comparable voltages, and that's roughly going to be your P-core SP.


Yeah it'll run that all day long for just cinebench like 22C ambient. The problem is most people don't actually list what voltage they're reading and often it isn't die sense, and they don't list chip temps nor ambient temps which can dramatically affect overclocks. Most just show the bios screen of their SP rating and leave it at that. So hard to compare without apples to apples numbers.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> Ambient temp was around 23C, but only my mora420 was out on balcony. (PC inside the room)
> Don't know the temp of balcony ^^


Well your water temps were right at 12C. So likely your outside temps were just a hair under that.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Yeah it'll run that all day long for just cinebench like 22C ambient. The problem is most people don't actually list what voltage they're reading and often it isn't die sense, and they don't list chip temps nor ambient temps which can dramatically affect overclocks. Most just show the bios screen of their SP rating and leave it at that. So hard to compare without apples to apples numbers.


It doesn't need to be an exact number. You can easily narrow your P-core SP down to ranges, like 110+, 100-110, 90-100, etc.
They each have vastly different results.

For your particular chip, it's either going to be 110+ or 100-110 (more likely the former). 120+ is *extremely* rare.


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> 5.6/4.4/4.6 at only 1.40V max? Damn. That seems low for P-core SP of 106? Or is there a vast difference between P-core SP of 100 and 106?


Sorry man, Typo~


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> Sorry man, Typo~
> View attachment 2555355


Now that seems more accurate


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ichirou said:


> 5.6/4.4/4.6 at only 1.40V max? Damn. That seems low for P-core SP of 106? Or is there a vast difference between P-core SP of 100 and 106?


Man I can't get anywhere close to 1.4V under load. I've got a Mora 3 with Optimus signature block crap tons of flow (dual d5 pumps) and noctua industrial fans. And I'm bumping right up against 90C on my hottest cores at only 1.31V (1.29V die sense) under load. Granted my current room temp is around 22-23C and that will drop down to about 18-19C once I'm moved back into my actual office but still.

My chip scales insanely good until those cores hit like 91-92C and then bam it crashes. So 5.5 GHz is easy with my e cores disabled 1.28V die sense and temps in the low 80s, but with e cores enabled its just too hot. And anything more than 1.3 die sense voltage is insta crash due to heat.


----------



## IronAge

maybe asks for a delid.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Man I can't get anywhere close to 1.4V under load. I've got a Mora 3 with Optimus signature block crap tons of flow (dual d5 pumps) and noctua industrial fans. And I'm bumping right up against 90C on my hottest cores at only 1.31V (1.29V die sense) under load. Granted my current room temp is around 22-23C and that will drop down to about 18-19C once I'm moved back into my actual office but still.
> 
> My chip scales insanely good until those cores hit like 91-92C and then bam it crashes. So 5.5 GHz is easy with my e cores disabled 1.28V die sense and temps in the low 80s, but with e cores enabled its just too hot. And anything more than 1.3 die sense voltage is insta crash due to heat.


There's always some luck involved, and you might need to raise IMC voltages a bit more as well in case they're the culprit for the crashing.
You should be able to hit 100C and throttle at least a little before the PC hard errors and crashes.


----------



## Gadfly

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Yeah it'll run that all day long for just cinebench like 22C ambient. The problem is most people don't actually list what voltage they're reading and often it isn't die sense, and they don't list chip temps nor ambient temps which can dramatically affect overclocks. Most just show the bios screen of their SP rating and leave it at that. So hard to compare without apples to apples numbers.


ambient: 68’F, vcore, 1.235, llc 6 (Asus, bios set), e-cores disabled:

5.2ghz: 1.163v die sense, 73’C hottest core
5.3ghz: will not run CBR3
5.4ghz: will not boot.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ichirou said:


> It doesn't need to be an exact number. You can easily narrow your P-core SP down to ranges, like 110+, 100-110, 90-100, etc.
> They each have vastly different results.
> 
> For your particular chip, it's either going to be 110+ or 100-110 (more likely the former). 120+ is *extremely* rare.


What kind of delta temps do you see with around 1.3V (die sense voltage) under a cinebench level load? My chip seems to idle right at ambient temps (22C) which makes me think it's got good contact and even up to about 1.25V temps are fantastic. High 70s on hottest cores. Maybe low 70s very high 60s on the coolest. But past 1.31 and those 2 hot cores (especially core 4) hits 90-91C and it's game over.

Now I'm still on a stupid beta bios that definitely has bugs. But my voltages just seem so low in comparison to the temps I'm experiencing. Any suggestions or ideas?


----------



## david12900k

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> I'll check tonight. I cannot remember what my minimum voltage for 5.3 was. I know for 5.4 my best chip will pass at ~1.20V (1.194-1.206 as measured from VR VOUT aka Die sense voltage on the Dark). That equates to 1.23V set voltage with -75% llc. Not sure how helpful that is. But I'll check 5.3 tonight and get back to you. I wish I could find this data to directly compare against and atleast get an approximate my SP ratings. Haha I feel so left out of all the cool kids!


For my daily OC, so far I have the following stabilized
5.4 P / 4.3 E / Auto Ring
LLC 4, AC_LL = 0.20, DC_LL = 0.98
V/F Point 6 (5300) set to -0.08, which sets the 5.4 Frequency to 1.289v set in Bios (Shows 1.208v in HWInfo during load)
In the ASUS APEX (And maybe other boards) you can control additional turbo voltage to just the E-Cores. To stabilize 4.3 E cores for C23 (6x30 min runs), i had to set it to 1.315v set (so closer to 1.245v is my guess)
Got through 6 back to back runs of Cinebench r23 (30 minutes) with no crashes and no restarts. Temps dont go above 80 on the P cores and 67 on the E cores. 
My E cores are SP 85, which is the highest i have seen so far, so im wondering if I cant push these to 4.4 daily and crank up the voltage


----------



## bscool

No testing IMC on KS? Mine is a beast so far, 4266c15-16-16 DR b die boots easy and running Karhu now.

e core bugged on old bios though and newer bioses on Strix d4 suck for DR oc.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> What kind of delta temps do you see with around 1.3V (die sense voltage) under a cinebench level load? My chip seems to idle right at ambient temps (22C) which makes me think it's got good contact and even up to about 1.25V temps are fantastic. High 70s on hottest cores. Maybe low 70s very high 60s on the coolest. But past 1.31 and those 2 hot cores (especially core 4) hits 90-91C and it's game over.
> 
> Now I'm still on a stupid beta bios that definitely has bugs. But my voltages just seem so low in comparison to the temps I'm experiencing. Any suggestions or ideas?


Try killing off those two P-cores (so, enable 6 instead of 8 cores). See if you can push up to 1.40V.
It could just be those two cores being significantly weaker than the rest. Try isolating this way.


bscool said:


> No testing IMC on KS? Mine is a beast so far, 4266c15-16-16 DR b die boots easy and running Karhu now.
> 
> e core bugged on old bios though and newer on Strix d4 suck for DR oc.


Everyone's too concerned about CPU overclocking 
Apparently 1% lows and workstation are niches...


----------



## david12900k

bscool said:


> No testing IMC on KS? Mine is a beast so far, 4266c15-16-16 DR b die boots easy and running Karhu now.
> 
> e core bugged on old bios though and newer bioses on Strix d4 suck for DR oc.


I have been super into overclocking the CPU, but for ddr5 oc'ing I have no clue what I'm doing.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ichirou said:


> Try killing off those two P-cores (so, enable 6 instead of 8 cores). See if you can push up to 1.40V.
> It could just be those two cores being significantly weaker than the rest. Try isolating this way.
> 
> Everyone's too concerned about CPU overclocking


motherboard seems to make as much if not more of a difference than IMC does. Atleast for daily overclocks and such. When I tell people I'm running 7200 MHz 1T (Still tightening subtimings) people lose their minds. But the EVGA Dark is absolutely Hax when it comes to high frequency 1T timings and 7200 1T isn't really that special on the dark. Atleast I don't think it is. Then again so few people have the Dark so I have no one to compare against.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> motherboard seems to make as much if not more of a difference than IMC does. Atleast for daily overclocks and such. When I tell people I'm running 7200 MHz 1T (Still tightening subtimings) people lose their minds. But the EVGA Dark is absolutely Hax when it comes to high frequency 1T timings and 7200 1T isn't really that special on the dark. Atleast I don't think it is. Then again so few people have the Dark so I have no one to compare against.


Motherboard and BIOS does play a huge part in memory frequency overclocking. Many have struggled to push past 7,000 MHz on most Apexes so far.
It could just be that the Dark is that much better. But EVGA likes to stay behind a little to offer a higher quality product than its competitors.

Just from my personal experience on DDR4, ASUS Strix failed to boot above ~4,300 on Gear 2 while the MSI Edge could boot ~5,000 just fine.

But all in all, this probably means nothing once DDR5 kits are released up to 8,000 MHz. All of the boards we have now will likely become obsolete and need to be remade.


----------



## gecko991

Great board. I am running a good Apex board and have ran different types of Ram at 6600 so far with a KF.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

david12900k said:


> I have been super into overclocking the CPU, but for ddr5 oc'ing I have no clue what I'm doing.


I'm forcing myself to learn. Just started building a profile from scratch last night. Played with voltages and vddq settings and found max stable frequency I could run with auto timings and 1T. Left my PC to mem test overnight the this AM I tightened tCL, trcd, and trp to 32-39-39 respectively and then restarted my mem test and went to work. When I'm off I'll stop by and if it's still running I'll tighten a bit more and leave it testing lol


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> I'm forcing myself to learn. Just started building a profile from scratch last night. Played with voltages and vddq settings and found max stable frequency I could run with auto timings and 1T. Left my PC to mem test overnight the this AM I tightened tCL, trcd, and trp to 32-39-39 respectively and then restarted my mem test and went to work. When I'm off I'll stop by and if it's still running I'll tighten a bit more and leave it testing lol


It seems daunting at first, but memory overclocking is really not that complex. It's just time consuming.
As long as a configuration passes TM5 with some anta777 config and y-cruncher, it's good enough for field testing.
Even the 1usmus config can be enough if you know what you are doing.


----------



## sugi0lover

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> motherboard seems to make as much if not more of a difference than IMC does. Atleast for daily overclocks and such. When I tell people I'm running 7200 MHz 1T (Still tightening subtimings) people lose their minds. But the EVGA Dark is absolutely Hax when it comes to high frequency 1T timings and 7200 1T isn't really that special on the dark. Atleast I don't think it is. Then again so few people have the Dark so I have no one to compare against.


That's great Ram OC.
looking forward to see 7200 1T performance.
FYI, here is my stable 7200 2T, so it can be compared. (not for the competition purpose, but for information purpose)
_Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> That's great Ram OC.
> looking forward to see 7200 1T performance.
> FYI, here is my stable 7200 2T, so it can be compared. (not for the competition purpose, but for information purpose)
> _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


From your experience, which is better? Higher cache or E-cores on? If you had to choose between one or the other.


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> From your experience, which is better? Higher cache or E-cores on? If you had to choose between one or the other.


My only usage of PC is gaming, and I see that higher cache/e off is better for most steam games I play.


----------



## david12900k

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> I'm forcing myself to learn. Just started building a profile from scratch last night. Played with voltages and vddq settings and found max stable frequency I could run with auto timings and 1T. Left my PC to mem test overnight the this AM I tightened tCL, trcd, and trp to 32-39-39 respectively and then restarted my mem test and went to work. When I'm off I'll stop by and if it's still running I'll tighten a bit more and leave it testing lol


Tonight im gonna see how low i can get my 5.4 all core. Just got it to pass r23 at 1.190v in HWInfo


----------



## Rei23

(edit : nevermind, delete this message)


----------



## gecko991

Nice chip David12900k..


----------



## david12900k

gecko991 said:


> Nice chip David12900k..


Only pulling 248 watts at that voltage


----------



## gecko991

Noice. I am running this chip in one of my CM torture racks on liquid and Man they are powerful though can get hot even with a full tune.


----------



## gecko991

What Bios ?


----------



## david12900k

gecko991 said:


> What Bios ?


Asus Apex 1403. When I tried to set 5.5 GHz, it shot up to 360 watts


----------



## gecko991

Dam I hear ya.


----------



## gecko991

Testing different settings last night with some Corsair Dom Plat, not bad so far at 6500 but I love Gskill.


----------



## david12900k

gecko991 said:


> Testing different settings last night with some Corsair Dom Plat, not bad so far at 6500 but I love Gskill.


Yeah, I have Gskill 6400 CL32, but for the life of me, I cannot figure out a decent OC


----------



## gecko991

Start with the primary timings for basic high end then trim the subs, I had a set of there first batch 5600 that was not bad and did 6400 stock timings with a slight vcore increase.


----------



## Falkentyne

Gadfly said:


> sure…. To run 1 pass of CB R23:
> 
> static v-core, e-cores disabled, llc 6:
> 
> 5.2ghz, 1.234v
> 
> 5.3ghz, will not run


Is this the load voltage or the voltage you set in the BIOS?

If it's the load voltage, if 5.2 ghz requires 1.234v *load voltage* with E cores disabled, that's an actually defective chip. That's worse than my SP78 ES chip (it says SP92 normally but when you remove and reinsert the CPU it turns into SP78, with something like P core 93, E-cores 45 or something weird, which is something I've never seen with other people who reinserted their retail chips).
Are you sure that's LOAD voltage or BIOS SET vcore? Please clarify.


----------



## Falkentyne

Gadfly said:


> ambient: 68’F, vcore, 1.235, llc 6 (Asus, bios set), e-cores disabled:
> 
> 5.2ghz: 1.163v die sense, 73’C hottest core
> 5.3ghz: will not run CBR3
> 5.4ghz: will not boot.
> View attachment 2555356
> 
> 
> View attachment 2555359


Ok I didn't see this in your reply I quoted...didn't realize the thread ballooned into two more pages.
1.163v die sense load for 5.2 ghz with E cores disabled is a very poor KS chip, but that should be able to absolutely pass 1.250v die sense actual load @ 5.3 ghz in that case.
So 1.350v-1.40v bios set + LLC6 should get you there. But that's still a very, very poor chip. Literally the worst KS I've seen posted. I think one other user had a chip equally this bad somewhere.


----------



## fat4l

why do you test with Ecores disabled ? that makes comparing stuff even worse.


----------



## bass junkie xl

bran new 12900ks came in today batch # v137h874 
made in china 
Asus Strix z690 D4 wifi 
bios 1304 waiting for 12900ks bios

fresh bios flash 1304 
main page sp= 96

AI tweaker page sp

p core sp = 104
e core sp=80 

is this any good ?


----------



## bscool

bass junkie xl said:


> bran new 12900ks came in today batch # v137h874
> made in china
> Asus Strix z690 D4 wifi
> bios 1304 waiting for 12900ks bios
> 
> fresh bios flash 1304
> main page sp= 96
> 
> AI tweaker page sp
> 
> p core sp = 104
> e core sp=80
> 
> is this any good ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2555384
> 
> View attachment 2555386
> 
> View attachment 2555385


Now for the disappiontent when you try DR mem OC. You have DR b die right?


----------



## bass junkie xl

bscool said:


> Now for the disappiontent when you try DR mem OC. You have DR b die right?


already have g.skill royal 32gb ( 16gb x2 )
4000 cl 16-16-16-36 1.40v xmp gear 1 
@ 14-15-15-35 1.50v stable . 
44 NS 

you were saying ?

is this bin worth keeping 104 ?


----------



## bscool

bass junkie xl said:


> already have g.skill royal 32gb ( 16gb x2 )
> 4000 cl 16-16-16-36 1.40v xmp gear 1
> @ 14-15-15-35 1.50v stable .
> 44 NS
> 
> you were saying ?
> 
> is this bin worth keeping 104 ?


Yeah it looks good just with bios 1304 it limits DR mem oc. I can do 4266c15 DR on older bios with the 12900 KF and KS but on 1304 mem oc is limited to 4133c15.


----------



## bass junkie xl

bscool said:


> Yeah it looks good just with bios 1304 it limits DR mem oc. I can do 4266c15 DR on older bios with the 12900 KF and KS but on 1304 mem oc is limited to 4133c15.


yeah I read your posts , I wasn't geting a proper sp rating in bios 901 it said sp 200 and sp 189 for p cores. so I flashed to bios 1304 to get a proper sp rating on my new 12900ks 

sp 96 over all p cores 104 e cores 80 . 

I wanted to know my sp so I know to keep or sell .

is so 104 on p cores 12900 ks pretty good ? 
what's that compared to a regular 12900k
sp 104 + 10 ?? 

I just ran stock 12900ks settings with load line level 4 nothing touched and vcore was 1.32v in r15 and only hit 77c hotest core Ona 420mm AIO . seems decent so far. 

Gota get the g.skill royals 32gb 4000 c14 dialed in and stuff. 

my sp 89 p cores 12900k is getting rma I think this p core 104 12900ks I'll keep by the looks of it


----------



## bscool

bass junkie xl said:


> yeah I read your posts , I wasn't geting a proper sp rating in bios 901 it said sp 200 and sp 189 for p cores. so I flashed to bios 1304 to get a proper sp rating on my new 12900ks
> 
> sp 96 over all p cores 104 e cores 80 .
> 
> I wanted to know my sp so I know to keep or sell .
> 
> is so 104 on p cores 12900 ks pretty good ?
> what's that compared to a regular 12900k
> sp 104 + 10 ??
> 
> I just ran stock 12900ks settings with load line level 4 nothing touched and vcore was 1.32v in r15 and only hit 77c hotest core Ona 420mm AIO . seems decent so far.
> 
> Gota get the g.skill royals 32gb 4000 c14 dialed in and stuff.
> 
> my sp 89 p cores 12900k is getting rma I think this p core 104 12900ks I'll keep by the looks of it


I havent kept up with SPs but from what i do know yours is pretty good. I think to really know you have to test what it can actually do at a certain clock and how much voltage it needs. I havent messed with CPU OC much on my KS. Been playing with memory mainly.

I saw @Falkentyne posted about vcore 1.42v llc6 54/40/40 and see if it runs r23 and r15 for 10 loops each. I havent tried it yet.


----------



## Tadaschi

12900ks Batch X203N634 Vietnam from Newegg launch day
SP 96
P score 104
E score 82
Direct Die Supercool Computers
Apex bios 1403
just AI overclock and thigh mem timings on gskill ddr5 6400 CL32 all the rest default

i will try voltage later
Funny fact before direct die my score where
SP 96
P score 106
E score 80


----------



## nickolp1974

sugi0lover said:


> That's great Ram OC.
> looking forward to see 7200 1T performance.
> FYI, here is my stable 7200 2T, so it can be compared. (not for the competition purpose, but for information purpose)
> _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


do you have a cmo i could possibly test, just wanted to compare a few settings


----------



## Nizzen

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> motherboard seems to make as much if not more of a difference than IMC does. Atleast for daily overclocks and such. When I tell people I'm running 7200 MHz 1T (Still tightening subtimings) people lose their minds. But the EVGA Dark is absolutely Hax when it comes to high frequency 1T timings and 7200 1T isn't really that special on the dark. Atleast I don't think it is. Then again so few people have the Dark so I have no one to compare against.


No one still haven't seen the performance of 72001t on Dark, so we are still waiting. 
One person here posted 68001t on Msi unify x. Performance was like 60001t on Apex .

No result, and it's impossible to compare.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Nizzen said:


> No one still haven't seen the performance of 72001t on Dark, so we are still waiting.
> One person here posted 68001t on Msi unify x. Performance was like 60001t on Apex .
> 
> No result, and it's impossible to compare.


I'm working on the profile as speak. I will post some numbers once it's in a suitable situation. This is my first time overclocking ddr5 so I'm doing it piece by piece and it will take me alot more time than someone more experienced.


----------



## -VSS-

sugi0lover said:


> E core clock doesn't look right. Doubt sp bug or temp related?
> All SP90+ 12900KS I have seen e core above 4000Mhz under prediction.
> 
> Look at this 12900ks sp bug and e core clock.
> SP bug on 0703 bios Hero board. On recent bios, SP changed to 84.
> View attachment 2555350


and for me it looks like this,




















if you don't know, I know it, the fact is 121SP on the latest UEFI


----------



## sugi0lover

nickolp1974 said:


> do you have a cmo i could possibly test, just wanted to compare a few settings


Since I am using basic 4800 CL40 ram sticks, VDD and VDDQ get dropped, so I need 0.1v higher input on bios.
Anyway here it is~
M13A_72003040402T.CMO


----------



## IronAge

SP Rating with 0702 and overtemperature is worthless for 12900KS since the ratios are too low, makes zero sense to post that.


----------



## sugi0lover

-VSS- said:


> and for me it looks like this,
> 
> View attachment 2555411
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2555410
> 
> 
> if you don't know, I know it, the fact is 121SP on the latest UEFI


Thanks for sharing your input! I have no doubt about whether your screenshots are real or not.
SP136 is definitely SP bug since voltages are shown as N/A.
More than dozen 12900KS SP90+ I have seen show E-Cores higher than 4000Mhz except yours and the one I showed.
SP bug happenes even on the newest bios, no bios free of SP bug.
If your SP is not a bug, I am excited and happy for you. Can you show your p-sp and e-sp screen and V/F curve if possible?
I am really looking forward to your OC. Thanks in advance!


----------



## fat4l

bass junkie xl said:


> bran new 12900ks came in today batch # v137h874
> made in china
> Asus Strix z690 D4 wifi
> bios 1304 waiting for 12900ks bios
> 
> fresh bios flash 1304
> main page sp= 96
> 
> AI tweaker page sp
> 
> p core sp = 104
> e core sp=80
> 
> is this any good ?


You need bios 1403 mate


----------



## bass junkie xl

fat4l said:


> You need bios 1403 mate


only bios 1304 is on the Asus website. 
my board is the Strix z690 wifi D4 ddr4. 

is the 1403 bios some where else to down load ?


----------



## WebsterRKL

My Asus Cooler Rating is 184.

Hardware Labs SR-2 Multiport 280mm
(2)Noctua 140mm 2000rpm Industrials
EK Quantum Magnitude CPU block
Aquacomputer D5 PWM
Bios 1402

Is that going to be enough cooling to achieve 5.5Ghz single core stock boost with a new 12900KS? Just want to run the chip "plug and play stock" with superfast DDR5 for working...

Should I add an additional 240mm radiator?


----------



## VGeorge

WebsterRKL said:


> My Asus Cooler Rating is 184.
> 
> Hardware Labs SR-2 Multiport 280mm
> (2)Noctua 140mm 2000rpm Industrials
> EK Quantum Magnitude CPU block
> Aquacomputer D5 PWM
> Bios 1402
> 
> Is that going to be enough cooling to achieve 5.5Ghz single core stock boost with a new 12900KS? Just want to run the chip "plug and play stock" with superfast DDR5 for working...
> 
> Should I add an additional 240mm radiator?


Make sure to wait until EK releases an lga 1700 mounting kit for the magnitude. I spoke to them this week and they told me that they will be releasing one within this month.
Proper mounting is really important


----------



## J_Lab4645

sugi0lover said:


> _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> Fyi, I posted the comparision results of SP103 12900K, SP95 12900KS, SP96 12900KS on Cine23 10 min.
> Voltages can be different from each person's setting, but this result came from one guy with the same setup.




Something's up with his score if he's really doing P53 E42. R you sure? Seems it should be a lot higher? Here's my score with P52 E40, (two cores boost to x56)


----------



## nickolp1974

sugi0lover said:


> Since I am using basic 4800 CL40 ram sticks, VDD and VDDQ get dropped, so I need 0.1v higher input on bios.
> Anyway here it is~
> M13A_72003040402T.CMO


thanks for that, i am still on the dell greens so same ish basic mems


----------



## SoldierRBT

sugi0lover said:


> _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> Fyi, I posted the comparision results of SP103 12900K, SP95 12900KS, SP96 12900KS on Cine23 10 min.
> Voltages can be different from each person's setting, but this result came from one guy with the same setup.


Here's my 12900KS SP87
R23 10 min 53 E42 R44 1.181v underload Max Temp 80C


----------



## Gadfly

Falkentyne said:


> Ok I didn't see this in your reply I quoted...didn't realize the thread ballooned into two more pages.
> 1.163v die sense load for 5.2 ghz with E cores disabled is a very poor KS chip, but that should be able to absolutely pass 1.250v die sense actual load @ 5.3 ghz in that case.
> So 1.350v-1.40v bios set + LLC6 should get you there. But that's still a very, very poor chip. Literally the worst KS I've seen posted. I think one other user had a chip equally this bad somewhere.


I got it to pass 3 back to back runs of CB R23 at 5.3ghz, it required 1.267v die sense under load, so 1.355v set in V-Core, I could not get it to run at 5.4ghz, even at 1.36v die sense. It is just a very very poor chip; but the e-cores are fantastic. they ran at 4.4ghz at 1.163v die sense.

It went back to newegg this morning, and a replacement is already on the way.


----------



## sugi0lover

J_Lab4645 said:


> Something's up with his score if he's really doing P53 E42. R you sure? Here's my score with P52 E40, (two cores x56)
> 
> View attachment 2555420


As hwinfo shows, it's right. He ran Cine for 10 min not just one cycle and Cine score also depends on how background apps are running.


----------



## nickolp1974

@sugi0lover your cmo, i did score higher in Aida but i'm defo on the edge with it. I did think that clk period and dw_bwsell etc would of been set, will look into it more to hopefully stabilise a bit better for my cpu, thanks for letting me try


----------



## fat4l

Gadfly said:


> I got it to pass 3 back to back runs of CB R23 at 5.3ghz, it required 1.267v die sense under load, so 1.355v set in V-Core, I could not get it to run at 5.4ghz, even at 1.36v die sense. It is just a very very poor chip; but the e-cores are fantastic. they ran at 4.4ghz at 1.163v die sense.
> 
> It went back to newegg this morning, and a replacement is already on the way.


Was this with e cores enabled? If not could you lass that with them enabled?


----------



## IronAge

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-comments-on-alder-lakes-warping-and-bending-issues-mods-void-warranty



Washer mod voids warranty says Intel.  🍭


----------



## Dinnzy

I’ve been to busy to really play with my KS on a unify x I did pass 5.4 40 e core on auto ring on r23. I believe 1.217 was the load voltage. Input was like 1.345. Msi llc 6. My sp 98 reg p core could not achieve this. One of my cores did hit 94 and it’s on a double rad, thinking maybe adding an external 480 for ****s and giggles, thinking 5.4 is going to get hottttt.


----------



## Dinnzy

Dinnzy said:


> I’ve been to busy to really play with my KS on a unify x I did pass 5.4 40 e core on auto ring on r23. I believe 1.217 was the load voltage. Input was like 1.345. Msi llc 6. My sp 98 reg p core could not achieve this. One of my cores did hit 94 and it’s on a double rad, thinking maybe adding an external 480 for ****s and giggles, thinking 5.4 is going to get hottttt.


----------



## 7empe

SoldierRBT said:


> Here's my 12900KS SP87
> R23 10 min 53 E42 R44 1.181v underload Max Temp 80C
> View attachment 2555422
> 
> View attachment 2555423


It looks like KS has own SP rating and can't be compared to K. My 12900KF has SP 88 (P 97, E 72) and I need 1.23V die sense in CBR23 to keep P5.2 E4.2 R4.2. Heavy AVX requires even 1.28V die sense reaching up to 320W.


----------



## jomama22

7empe said:


> It looks like KS has own SP rating and can't be compared to K. My 12900KF has SP 88 (P 97, E 72) and I need 1.23V die sense in CBR23 to keep P5.2 E4.2 R4.2. Heavy AVX requires even 1.28V die sense reaching up to 320W.


And just to throw it out there, my sp 88, 96 p-core kf needs 1.15v die sense for those same clocks. Sp genuinely doesn't mean much in the grand scheme, gotta bench em.


----------



## 7empe

jomama22 said:


> And just to throw it out there, my sp 88, 96 p-core kf needs 1.15v die sense for those same clocks. Sp genuinely doesn't mean much in the grand scheme, gotta bench em.


No way... such a difference??? What cooling (I'm on 420mm thick rad)? What memory (I'm on 6400 c28 1T)?
And 1.15V for what kind of load? OCCT large AVX2 for example?


----------



## SoldierRBT

7empe said:


> It looks like KS has own SP rating and can't be compared to K. My 12900KF has SP 88 (P 97, E 72) and I need 1.23V die sense in CBR23 to keep P5.2 E4.2 R4.2. Heavy AVX requires even 1.28V die sense reaching up to 320W.


This KS is definitely better than my KF SP91 (Core P-100). Almost 40mv lower at the same clock speeds. Thing is KS runs extremely hot around 5-7C higher at the same voltage.


----------



## 7empe

SoldierRBT said:


> This KS is definitely better than my KF SP91 (Core P-100). Almost 40mv lower at the same clock speeds. Thing is KS runs extremely hot around 5-7C higher at the same voltage.


With 320W I reach the 95C already... (water temp 28C).


----------



## Gadfly

fat4l said:


> Was this with e cores enabled? If not could you lass that with them enabled?


no, and no.


----------



## jomama22

7empe said:


> No way... such a difference??? What cooling (I'm on 420mm thick rad)? What memory (I'm on 6400 c28 1T)?
> And 1.15V for what kind of load? OCCT large AVX2 for example?


That's with r23, same memory clock/timing, looping r23 maxes at 73* package temp. Avx loads require 1.2v, though admittedly, didn't try to squeeze this down or anything when I was testing it. 5.3 with same other clocks requires 1.26v for r23. Avx begins to implode from temp when I try so lol.


----------



## jomama22

SoldierRBT said:


> This KS is definitely better than my KF SP91 (Core P-100). Almost 40mv lower at the same clock speeds. Thing is KS runs extremely hot around 5-7C higher at the same voltage.


Yeah looking at others examples, looks like the chips were more selected for leakiness than vid.


----------



## jomama22

7empe said:


> With 320W I reach the 95C already... (water temp 28C).


Should add, my ambient is around 20* +- 1 depending on the day in my posts above. So that definitely plays a roll.


----------



## 7empe

jomama22 said:


> That's with r23, same memory clock/timing, looping r23 maxes at 73* package temp. Avx loads require 1.2v, though admittedly, didn't try to squeeze this down or anything when I was testing it. 5.3 with same other clocks requires 1.26v for r23. Avx begins to implode from temp when I try so lol.


According to CPU VID table which scales up to 53x, my sample requires 1.36V for 53x at AC/DC_LL 0.01. Tried up to 1.32V in CBR23 without luck.


----------



## deceptiv23

I bought a ks and got 91 sp. I wonder if it’ll be better than my k at 95.

my k does 5.3g, 4.1g, 41 ring at 1.270v and llc 4 - package temp after c23 3 runs with an open loop is 78c and score is 30,500

I had the ks ok my test bench need to put it in loop to test


----------



## 7empe

deceptiv23 said:


> I bought a ks and got 91 sp. I wonder if it’ll be better than my k at 95.
> 
> my k does 5.3g, 4.1g, 41 ring at 1.270v and llc 4 - package temp after c23 3 runs with an open loop is 78c and score is 30,500
> 
> I had the ks ok my test bench need to put it in loop to test


Road to 54x wide open if you can cool it


----------



## deceptiv23

7empe said:


> Road to 54x wide open if you can cool it


delidding is next on the list but nerve racking to do on a decent chip lol. Hoping that can help me break 5.4


----------



## david12900k

I think im calling it...
Cant get 5.5 all core to stabilize in C23 for more than 1 run with e cores enabled. Not sure exactly what the issue is. 
I started at the voltage I had for 5.4 all core and the temps were 82. Then that crashes (obviously), so i step the voltage up in increments of .001 and it keeps crashing right up to the point that it starts thermal throttling. I guess 5.5 all core under heavy loads is just not possible for this chip (unless im doing something wrong, which i may be)


----------



## jomama22

7empe said:


> According to CPU VID table which scales up to 53x, my sample requires 1.36V for 53x at AC/DC_LL 0.01. Tried up to 1.32V in CBR23 without luck.


If you're referring to the 53x in the vid table in bios, that vid is for 52x. Some early chips just had is it improperly labeled as 5.3x.


----------



## jomama22

david12900k said:


> I think im calling it...
> Cant get 5.5 all core to stabilize in C23 for more than 1 run with e cores enabled. Not sure exactly what the issue is.
> I started at the voltage I had for 5.4 all core and the temps were 82. Then that crashes (obviously), so i step the voltage up in increments of .001 and it keeps crashing right up to the point that it starts thermal throttling. I guess 5.5 all core under heavy loads is just not possible for this chip (unless im doing something wrong, which i may be)


Again, it's too hot, pure and simple. If you cooler that more it would hit 5.5 stable most likely. Much worse chips can do so.


----------



## david12900k

jomama22 said:


> Again, it's too hot, pure and simple. If you cooler that more it would hit 5.5 stable most likely. Much worse chips can do so.


Yeah, I would need to delid to go any further


----------



## 7empe

jomama22 said:


> If you're referring to the 53x in the vid table in bios, that vid is for 52x. Some early chips just had is it improperly labeled as 5.3x.


I mean testing VID in runtime by switching the P-core ratio and being on LLC8 with AC_LL 0.01. But you're right, VF curve in 1304 bios seems to be misleading because VF points #7-10 are marked as ratio 52x with VID 1314 mV while this VID is used with ratio 51x (LLC8).


----------



## 7empe

jomama22 said:


> Again, it's too hot, pure and simple. If you cooler that more it would hit 5.5 stable most likely. Much worse chips can do so.


Yes, temperature-wise I can run 55x on 3 cores and 54x on 6 cores. 8 cores can do 53x up to 74C. For higher temp I would have to push more voltage (over 1.3V die sense) which leads to even higher temperature and possibly higher voltage demands.

I read somewhere that going with delid and direct die cooling can give up to 15C less temp.


----------



## -VSS-

1.199v fpr CBr20 , water block from S775


----------



## nickolp1974

david12900k said:


> I think im calling it...
> Cant get 5.5 all core to stabilize in C23 for more than 1 run with e cores enabled. Not sure exactly what the issue is.
> I started at the voltage I had for 5.4 all core and the temps were 82. Then that crashes (obviously), so i step the voltage up in increments of .001 and it keeps crashing right up to the point that it starts thermal throttling. I guess 5.5 all core under heavy loads is just not possible for this chip (unless im doing something wrong, which i may be)


im about the same but trying to get 5.4, an extra 0.1v and it crash's at the same point as the lower voltage, im only on aio though but it is de-lidded.


----------



## Nizzen

WebsterRKL said:


> My Asus Cooler Rating is 184.
> 
> Hardware Labs SR-2 Multiport 280mm
> (2)Noctua 140mm 2000rpm Industrials
> EK Quantum Magnitude CPU block
> Aquacomputer D5 PWM
> Bios 1402
> 
> Is that going to be enough cooling to achieve 5.5Ghz single core stock boost with a new 12900KS? Just want to run the chip "plug and play stock" with superfast DDR5 for working...
> 
> Should I add an additional 240mm radiator?


Watertemp and flow is the key... more radiator doesn't help, exept you are running 100% load for a long time, and water heats up...


----------



## Talon2016

Testing a 12900KS I picked up this morning at Microcenter. It's better than my 12900K, but only slightly. Does seem like the IMC might be better though and will need to do further testing. But right now I am considering taking it right back and swapping. I paid for the 2 year warranty so I won't get any kick back over swapping the chip. I can't imagine I will end up worse off.

On Hero 1403 BIOS - SP88.

My 12900K was SP92 with P103.

Edit: IMC seems really good on these chips. My old 12900K didn't like above 6400Mhz on the Hero board. I wasn't even able to get above 6600Mhz post, and this thing boots 6800Mhz no problem with XMP I profile and stock 1.4v voltages. 1.25v IMC and 1.0 SA. Pretty great for a Hero board.


----------



## fat4l

Well still I see these KS chips are nowhere near 115SP(p core) 12900K chips


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

fat4l said:


> Well still I see these KS chips are nowhere near 115SP(p core) 12900K chips


What's one of those capable of doing?


----------



## fat4l

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> What's one of those capable of doing?


I believe they can run 5.5G CB23 with reasonable volts + R23 5.3G <1.16v load.

I think* @sugi0lover* could demonstrate that for us pls ?  5.3G, E core @ stock, cache @ stock, R23 pass stable with normal temps not mora on balcony


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

fat4l said:


> I believe they can run 5.5G CB23 with reasonable volts + R23 5.3G <1.16v load.
> 
> I think* @sugi0lover* could demonstrate that for us pls ?  5.3G, E core @ stock, cache @ stock, R23 pass stable with normal temps not mora on balcony


I mean my KS will do that. 5.5 @1.29V set (1.27 die sense) R23 all day long. 5.3 w/ E cores at 43 and 45 cache @1.12V set (1.095V die sense) at 22C ambient temps.

I think ive seen a few guys here with even better chips than mine. I don't have an Asus board yet though so have no idea on the SP rating.


----------



## sugi0lover

fat4l said:


> I believe they can run 5.5G CB23 with reasonable volts + R23 5.3G <1.16v load.
> 
> I think* @sugi0lover* could demonstrate that for us pls ?  5.3G, E core @ stock, cache @ stock, R23 pass stable with normal temps not mora on balcony


Winter is gone, so mora on balcony is 24c+ already 
Anyway I don't have P-SP115 yet, I think I can get my hands on it in a week from my friend and do all my tests. My goal is to run Cine23 30min at p 55, e 43, c 45 at water temp 25c with ram oc 7200 cl30. With ram oc that high, voltages for cores require higher though, so I am not sure if it can run under that condition.


----------



## david12900k

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> I mean my KS will do that. 5.5 @1.29V set (1.27 die sense) R23 all day long. 5.3 w/ E cores at 43 and 45 cache @1.12V set (1.095V die sense) at 22C ambient temps.
> 
> I think ive seen a few guys here with even better chips than mine. I don't have an Asus board yet though so have no idea on the SP rating.


Is that 5.5G with E cores off?


----------



## fat4l

sugi0lover said:


> Winter is gone, so mora on balcony is 24c+ already
> Anyway I don't have P-SP115 yet, I think I can get my hands on it in a week from my friend and do all my tests. My goal is to run Cine23 30min at p 55, e 43, c 45 at water temp 25c with ram oc 7200 cl30. With ram oc that high, voltages for cores require higher though, so I am not sure if it can run under that condition.


I think for us, for this thread, 10 mins of CB23 with 55x, 40x,40x and "normal" memory would be enough...just for comparison. I haven't seen any KS capable of running 5.5G or even 5.4G witch such low voltage as 115SP K cpu


----------



## david12900k

Just did a 31185 Cinebench r23 run with my 12900ks
54 p cores, 43 e cores, 44 ring
Custom loop at 22 c ambient with mora3 420 
1.208 to 1.217 v under load


----------



## gecko991

Noice.


----------



## david12900k

I tried DDR5 overclocking, and it seems like my motherboard really does suck. I see so many people running Gskill 6400 cl32 at 1T, and no matter what I tried, i could not get anything stable and I heard that 1T is really whats worth it


----------



## david12900k

Does anyone have a comprehensive DDR5 OC guide?


----------



## gecko991

Go into memory here a take a peek great info.


----------



## david12900k

gecko991 said:


> Go into memory here a take a peek great info.


Yeah, i have been looking, but havent found a good guide. If you know one, let me know. Im part of the same ddr5 thread you were in a month or 2 ago


----------



## Falkentyne

david12900k said:


> Yeah, i have been looking, but havent found a good guide. If you know one, let me know. Im part of the same ddr5 thread you were in a month or 2 ago


There isn't a guide.
Most of the main timings of DDR5 have the same overall function of DDR4, except the values you use may be higher.
There was some debate on if the limits on TRRD_S=4 and TRRD_L=6, and the TFAW=TRRD_S * 4 that were standard for low latency on DDR4 still applied to DDR5.
The TFAW formula is still the same, but a few people tested TRRD_S=8, TRRD_L=8 and TFAW=32 and found no changes in bandwidth or latency compared to 4/6/16, which may mean that that is the functional limit on DDR5 and lower values get ignored.

There was also some discussion about TRAS, like some sort of lower limit that gets ignored or causing high instability compared to a high value (with respect to either tRCD or TRP). 
All you can do is simply read the DDR5 thread and find out what people are using with their sticks, and try to find what matches your sticks the closest. In other words, don't expect a free lunch here. You need to put in the work. It's still the wild west out here.


----------



## david12900k

Falkentyne said:


> There isn't a guide.
> Most of the main timings of DDR5 have the same overall function of DDR4, except the values you use may be higher.
> There was some debate on if the limits on TRRD_S=4 and TRRD_L=6, and the TFAW=TRRD_S * 4 that were standard for low latency on DDR4 still applied to DDR5.
> The TFAW formula is still the same, but a few people tested TRRD_S=8, TRRD_L=8 and TFAW=32 and found no changes in bandwidth or latency compared to 4/6/16, which may mean that that is the functional limit on DDR5 and lower values get ignored.
> 
> There was also some discussion about TRAS, like some sort of lower limit that gets ignored or causing high instability compared to a high value (with respect to either tRCD or TRP).
> All you can do is simply read the DDR5 thread and find out what people are using with their sticks, and try to find what matches your sticks the closest. In other words, don't expect a free lunch here. You need to put in the work. It's still the wild west out here.


Im not expecting free lunch, I have been following the largest ddr5 forum thread on here for over 3 months now, reading every post. So many people have the Gskill 6400 cl32 kits and Apex. I try to use what I learn, but nothing seems to be working for me to get any comparable results. I have tried understanding voltages, timings, etc, but its like I am reading other people's experiences and then I go to apply that to my hardware and get completely different results...

Just take a look at how detailed some of my posts on there are:
*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability... 

My issue is that I can read other's experiences and try to apply that to what I am doing, but it simply doesnt work. What I would like is a full end-to-end guide from someone who knows what they are doing, so I can get a comprehensive and full understanding. Its hard to piece together random forum posts that all say different things


----------



## Ichirou

DDR5 overclocking is probably the same as DDR4. It's all a matter of AIDA testing each timing change to make sure there's an actual improvement rather than a regression.
What's more of a mystery is how much VDIMM DDR5 is safe up to. We know quality DDR4 kits can go up to 1.60V (or a bit more) with proper cooling, for a daily config. But DDR5? No idea.

I would consider jumping on the DDR5 bandwagon, but I don't really want over $1,000 worth of RAM just sitting around for no reason.


----------



## Falkentyne

david12900k said:


> Im not expecting free lunch, I have been following the largest ddr5 forum thread on here for over 3 months now, reading every post. So many people have the Gskill 6400 cl32 kits and Apex. I try to use what I learn, but nothing seems to be working for me to get any comparable results. I have tried understanding voltages, timings, etc, but its like I am reading other people's experiences and then I go to apply that to my hardware and get completely different results...
> 
> Just take a look at how detailed some of my posts on there are:
> _Official_ Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> My issue is that I can read other's experiences and try to apply that to what I am doing, but it simply doesnt work. What I would like is a full end-to-end guide from someone who knows what they are doing, so I can get a comprehensive and full understanding. Its hard to piece together random forum posts that all say different things


What I mean is there is no guide that is available. People are still trying to find out what works best. I never implied you weren't doing your homework, but most people aren't going to write a detailed guide with DDR5 still in its infancy and everyone still trying to chase timings. Everything known is either posted as stickies on the overclocking discords or on the DDR5 thread. Kingfaris had some test results but nothing as far as a precise guide. 

Of course what's his face was posting "Jedec" formulas but I'm sure you don't care about Jedec timings right ?


----------



## Ichirou

Falkentyne said:


> What I mean is there is no guide that is available. People are still trying to find out what works best. I never implied you weren't doing your homework, but most people aren't going to write a detailed guide with DDR5 still in its infancy and everyone still trying to chase timings. Everything known is either posted as stickies on the overclocking discords or on the DDR5 thread. Kingfaris had some test results but nothing as far as a precise guide.
> 
> Of course what's his face was posting "Jedec" formulas but I'm sure you don't care about Jedec timings right ?


The core principles are probably the same as DDR4; I'd be more concerned about the different voltages necessary since there are quite a few compared to before.
We had VCCSA/VCCIO or VCCSA/VDDQ (Z690), but now DDR5 has what, four or five? So it'll take some time to try to find patterns correlating each one to stability.
Best practice is to find common voltage ranges shared amongst other overclockers who have already stabilized their kits and stay within them.


----------



## gecko991

Falkentyne is correct there is no specific guide as everyone's hardware build is unique though basic stability runs are research.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

david12900k said:


> Is that 5.5G with E cores off?


So as long as I can keep my hottest core under 90C with 1.29V set then it'll pass with e cores enabled. So if ambient is at 20C or less it'll run all day. If ambient is 22C+ then that core will hit like 92C about half way through the run and cinebench will give me that error notification. It's completely temp dependant.


----------



## david12900k

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> So as long as I can keep my hottest core under 90C with 1.29V set then it'll pass with e cores enabled. So if ambient is at 20C or less it'll run all day. If ambient is 22C+ then that core will hit like 92C about half way through the run and cinebench will give me that error notification. It's completely temp dependant.


The problem is that for me, my core 5 runs 7c hotter than my other cores, which kind of sucks


----------



## Ichirou

david12900k said:


> The problem is that for me, my core 5 runs 7c hotter than my other cores, which kind of sucks


Disable that core and see how it performs after


----------



## Aurosonic

My 24/7 results so far:








And my maximum for CB23 Multi (31383):


----------



## WebsterRKL

Nizzen said:


> Watertemp and flow is the key... more radiator doesn't help, exept you are running 100% load for a long time, and water heats up...


Thanks so much, is everyone in Norway as nice as you? 

GF is looking at homes in Norway, considering relocating from Florida, the outdoor temperatures should be wonderful for overclocking. lol 

September is so close, think I'll wait and buy a 13600K as placeholder and a 13900KS 3months later, Raptor Lake and Gskill DDR5 8000Mhz mem kit.


----------



## 7empe

Can be 12900KF SP88 (P-cores 97, E-cores 72) that requires 1.234V die-sense for avx load considered a very poor sample?
P-Cores: 52x
E-Cores: 42x
Ring: 42x

It's pure P-Cores voltage requirement. E-Cores and Ring require less than that.

Worth buying KS?

While playing BF I can maintain 53x-54x using octvb.

I also have doubts regarding IMC quality. 6400 C28 1T works perfectly fine, while 6600 C28 1T is memory-wise (TM5) stable but can't stabilize OCCT Large even with stock CPU configuration. Can it be VCCSA? I'm not touching it at all (running offset mode on auto to keep 0.95V), because I only find more instabilities while increasing it.

Maybe I need some PLL voltage increase?


----------



## Gadfly

david12900k said:


> I tried DDR5 overclocking, and it seems like my motherboard really does suck. I see so many people running Gskill 6400 cl32 at 1T, and no matter what I tried, i could not get anything stable and I heard that 1T is really whats worth it


Same here. I have a 2021 Apex, and I have the dud memory slot issue. My board will not run 1T past 6200, and will not run 2T past 6400. 

The CPU and memory kit ran 6600C30 1T and 7000C32 2T in an MSI Unify X; I am just having the worst luck this generation.

I am waiting for Asus to RMA my Apex, but I have been looking real closely at some alternatives.


----------



## matique

Nizzen said:


> No one still haven't seen the performance of 72001t on Dark, so we are still waiting.
> One person here posted 68001t on Msi unify x. Performance was like 60001t on Apex .
> 
> No result, and it's impossible to compare.












7000c30 1T. Not stable obviously but i find it hard for boards to have that much a difference in performance as to 6800 1T MSI = 60001T Apex


----------



## Gadfly

matique said:


> 7000c30 1T. Not stable obviously but i find it hard for boards to have that much a difference in performance as to 6800 1T MSI = 60001T Apex


The lack of performance is likely because the memory was just running in a constant error state; not a difference between one board and the other.


----------



## fat4l

Another friend's chip tested, another average chip.











Btw good video here about K and KS sp comparison


----------



## matique

Gadfly said:


> The lack of performance is likely because the memory was just running in a constant error state; not a difference between one board and the other.


ah mine is at least tm5 1usmus stable, just not karhu/ycruncher i guess. My board/sticks can't handle 7000c30 1T stable yet as it's on air, probably need to run it on water as you definitely need to push vdd2 >1.45 and vdimm to about 1.6v to stabilise it. Maybe next time when i am not on a sff system


----------



## Gadfly

matique said:


> ah mine is at least tm5 1usmus stable, just not karhu/ycruncher i guess. My board/sticks can't handle 7000c30 1T stable yet as it's on air, probably need to run it on water as you definitely need to push vdd2 >1.45 and vdimm to about 1.6v to stabilise it. Maybe next time when i am not on a sff system


I am really looking forward to getting a decent motherboard; I'm not shooting for the moon, but 6400/6600 1T would be nice. I ordered a set of direct water coolers for the memory (water is channeled over the RAM chips themselves). So I am hoping that will help keep the temps down and allow me to run a bit lower voltage for 24/7 use. 

here is the memory cooler kit I ordered, but it isn't here yet. 

Water block RAM Direct chip DDR5 Full Copper - Direct Die : Inspired by LnwShop.com (supercoolcomputer.com)


----------



## matique

Gadfly said:


> I am really looking forward to getting a decent motherboard; I'm not shooting for the moon, but 6400/6600 1T would be nice. I ordered a set of direct water coolers for the memory (water is channeled over the RAM chips themselves). So I am hoping that will help keep the temps down and allow me to run a bit lower voltage for 24/7 use.
> 
> here is the memory cooler kit I ordered, but it isn't here yet.
> 
> Water block RAM Direct chip DDR5 Full Copper - Direct Die : Inspired by LnwShop.com (supercoolcomputer.com)


those should work awesome, though make sure to leak test it first as there were some reports of some blocks leaking  I've only used ITX boards, and so far i've not heard anything bad about the z690i unify. Personally use it and it's pretty great.


----------



## Nizzen

Gadfly said:


> I am really looking forward to getting a decent motherboard; I'm not shooting for the moon, but 6400/6600 1T would be nice. I ordered a set of direct water coolers for the memory (water is channeled over the RAM chips themselves). So I am hoping that will help keep the temps down and allow me to run a bit lower voltage for 24/7 use.
> 
> here is the memory cooler kit I ordered, but it isn't here yet.
> 
> Water block RAM Direct chip DDR5 Full Copper - Direct Die : Inspired by LnwShop.com (supercoolcomputer.com)


I have this dimm block, and it's the best there is by far 

Have fun with 1-2c delta 🤩


----------



## david12900k

I have come here to eat my words. Could not get 6400 1T (something many others can do) to work for my Apex and 12900k or 12900ks. Decided to completely "reset" my thinking and look through posts again to build a greater understanding. I realized that I had been applying settings on top of the XMP 1 and 2 presets. Decided to set it to manual and re-apply all of the settings, and i managed to get 30 minutes to pass on TM5 with 64001T (30-40-40-102), which i could not get to pass previously. I still need to completely stress test it still, but thats more than I could get than before. I still need to lower some of the timings, but right now, im just trying to get a sense of what each of the voltages do.


----------



## 7empe

david12900k said:


> I have come here to eat my words. Could not get 6400 1T (something many others can do) to work for my Apex and 12900k or 12900ks. Decided to completely "reset" my thinking and look through posts again to build a greater understanding. I realized that I had been applying settings on top of the XMP 1 and 2 presets. Decided to set it to manual and re-apply all of the settings, and i managed to get 30 minutes to pass on TM5 with 64001T (30-40-40-102), which i could not get to pass previously. I still need to completely stress test it still, but thats more than I could get than before. I still need to lower some of the timings, but right now, im just trying to get a sense of what each of the voltages do.


Let us know your results please.


----------



## MaZo

Hi, I have bought 3 for binning and this is the first one that has come to me. Made in china, how do you see it?


----------



## Ichirou

MaZo said:


> Hi, I have bought 3 for binning and this is the first one that has come to me. Made in china, how do you see it?
> 
> View attachment 2555536


Already high end chip for a KS. Refund the rest.


----------



## Lord Alzov

matique said:


> ah mine is at least tm5 1usmus stable, just not karhu/ycruncher i guess. My board/sticks can't handle 7000c30 1T stable yet as it's on air, probably need to run it on water as you definitely need to push vdd2 >1.45 and vdimm to about 1.6v to stabilise it. Maybe next time when i am not on a sff system


Can u share u bios setting on file? i can 7000cl t2 on z690i but cANT t1 6400+ boot bios on any voltages. On apex i can 6666cl30 T1.


----------



## fat4l

Hm I'm not happy with my chip....

Anyone selling any high SP 12900K?


----------



## Nizzen

fat4l said:


> Hm I'm not happy with my chip....
> 
> Anyone selling any high SP 12900K?


Is sp p-core 99 enough?


----------



## VGeorge

fat4l said:


> Hm I'm not happy with my chip....
> 
> Anyone selling any high SP 12900K?


I might be, cause I wanna try my luck with a KS.
It's a 99SP, 109 P-core and 81 E-core.
I'm not able to sell it yet. Hope you are willing to wait a bit (a couple of weeks maybe).
Btw, If you want to see what the chip can do, here you go:








[Official] Intel Core i9-12900K / i7-12700K P-core binning


This thread makes me sad. I can't even get 5.0 stable at over 1.3v with two 12700k samples. Just ran 5.0 @ 1.310vcore overnight and it crashed at hour 7. I could get a screenshot of 5.1 at 1.3v running cinebench but it will eventually BSOD This is with a custom loop and Corsair XC5, new...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Dinnzy

Compared my KS to Jufes following the same parameter, lowest I can run r20 is 5.1 ; 40e @ 1.123 under load. Bios load voltage is 1.19 msi llc 6. So guess mine is a keeper !!! Was about to swing by MC and roll again.


----------



## MaZo

Ichirou said:


> Already high end chip for a KS. Refund the rest.


Ok I will do that, thank you very much!


----------



## fat4l

VGeorge said:


> I might be, cause I wanna try my luck with a KS.
> It's a 99SP, 109 P-core and 81 E-core.
> I'm not able to sell it yet. Hope you are willing to wait a bit (a couple of weeks maybe).
> Btw, If you want to see what the chip can do, here you go:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Official] Intel Core i9-12900K / i7-12700K P-core binning
> 
> 
> This thread makes me sad. I can't even get 5.0 stable at over 1.3v with two 12700k samples. Just ran 5.0 @ 1.310vcore overnight and it crashed at hour 7. I could get a screenshot of 5.1 at 1.3v running cinebench but it will eventually BSOD This is with a custom loop and Corsair XC5, new...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


That's nice mate. I'm a bit disappointed about the KS cpus....personally I was expecting a bitj7 more.

Can you do a quick test for me pls? 
5.3G, auto e cores and cache, remove all power limits, set actual vrm voltage to the minimum you can pass R23 1-3x not 10 mins, LLC 6, and bios 1403 if you can


----------



## fat4l

Dinnzy said:


> Compared my KS to Jufes following the same parameter, lowest I can run r20 is 5.1 ; 40e @ 1.123 under load. Bios load voltage is 1.19 msi llc 6. So guess mine is a keeper !!! Was about to swing by MC and roll again.


What about 5.2 and 5.3G.

A chip I'm looking for must so 5.3G at lower than 1.27V under load(1.3-1.31v llc6). Otherwise I think its pretty average then.


----------



## Dinnzy

fat4l said:


> What about 5.2 and 5.3G.
> 
> A chip I'm looking for must so 5.3G at lower than 1.27V under load(1.3-1.31v llc6). Otherwise I think its pretty average then.


Just passed r20 at 5.3 score of 11245 load voltage 1.229 at the lowest. I’ll keep lowering it to find the floor ;p


----------



## fat4l

Dinnzy said:


> Just passed r20 at 5.3 score of 11245 load voltage 1.229 at the lowest. I’ll keep lowering it to find the floor ;p


That's nice man. What's your sp ratings ?


----------



## Dinnzy

on msi unify x I am not sure ;p here is my floor.


----------



## Dinnzy

if you are near the philadelphia micro center they still have 7 from this batch in stock!


----------



## Talon2016

Dinnzy said:


> if you are near the philadelphia micro center they still have 7 from this batch in stock!


Batch? Country made?


----------



## Dinnzy

[QUOTE="Talon2016, post: 28972491,


----------



## Talon2016

Dinnzy said:


> View attachment 2555552
> 
> [QUOTE="Talon2016, post: 28972491,


Thanks, that is my exact batch for my SP88.
Can you tell me your voltage floor for 5.1ghz, no e cores in CB20? I was able to pass at 1.093v load. Curious to see if yours is better since you don’t have SP.


----------



## jomama22

You guys should really be using r23. R20 is pretty light weight comparatively.


----------



## Skyhopper01

I was surprised at the IMC quality on the KS chips. I have an SP90 KS which is pretty average plugged into a hero board. Manually set my memory kit to 6600mhz up from 6400 without adjusting voltages. I might have to spend some more time dialing in this memory OC.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

What's


jomama22 said:


> You guys should really be using r23. R20 is pretty light weight comparatively.


They bench basically the exact same in my experience.


----------



## Falkentyne

jomama22 said:


> You guys should really be using r23. R20 is pretty light weight comparatively.


R15 is harder to pass than R20/R23 with E cores disabled. Give it a try.


----------



## Lord Alzov

7000 CR1


----------



## jomama22

Falkentyne said:


> R15 is harder to pass than R20/R23 with E cores disabled. Give it a try.


Personally have not seen that. Both r20/15 run 20-30mv higher (because the load is less) and run ~10-12C cooler in my experience.


----------



## Talon2016

My SP88 KS does 5.3/4.0 CB23 at 1.208v load. Offset voltage -30mV in BIOS with LLC4 results in that. Package power draw is 253w. 

Grabbed a second chip today at MC, absolute ****. SP86, has be to bottom tier and really is SP86. Needed 50mV more than the SP88 for same clocks.


----------



## gecko991

I think might need to grab one for testing.


----------



## fat4l

gecko991 said:


> I think might need to grab one for testing.


still a big lottery mate, I thought we all will be getting golden chips....that's far from truth


----------



## gecko991

Yes I see that, marginal gains unless seriously cooled.


----------



## Nizzen

fat4l said:


> still a big lottery mate, I thought we all will be getting golden chips....that's far from truth


Where have you been the last 15 years? 
Intel has never been cherrypicket-silicon.com nor has Amd 

Not even on 2000$ 7980xe/9980xe/10980xe


----------



## sugi0lover

Nizzen said:


> I have this dimm block, and it's the best there is by far
> 
> Have fun with 1-2c delta 🤩


Hey buddy, I have a question. So delta 1-2C means it's almost the same temp of water?
For the traditional water block, I see max ram temp under load is 7C higher than max water temp something like ram/water 30C/23C or 27C/20C or etc.
When the water temp is 25C, can I expect 27C ram temp under full load?


----------



## Nizzen

sugi0lover said:


> Hey buddy, I have a question. So delta 1-2C means it's almost the same temp of water?
> For the traditional water block, I see max ram temp under load is 7C higher than max water temp something like ram/water 30C/23C or 27C/20C or etc.
> When the water temp is 25C, can I expect 27C ram temp under full load?


Yes, difference in dimm temp and watertemp 
This block has flow over the IC's, so it's a bit thicker than other dimm blocks.


----------



## matique

Lord Alzov said:


> Can u share u bios setting on file? i can 7000cl t2 on z690i but cANT t1 6400+ boot bios on any voltages. On apex i can 6666cl30 T1.


Unfortunately for msi you need to be on same bios for bios saves to transfer properly and I've moved back to my usual bios. Use V124 for best chance for 1T. Later I'll try to see if I can find time to load that bios up and have a save file for you.

For reference here's the voltages used:
-SA 1.3
-VDD2 1.46
-CPU VDDQ 1.55
-VDIMM 1.62


----------



## centvalny

Imc testing sp91 cpu with 27c water, mem air

Valid 8240
https://valid.x86.fr/2r2zi6


Request Trial Download AIDA64 Engineer (beta) 6.60.5944 | AIDA64











7600 c32 tight secs&terts. Cpu can go higher but the other half of Gskill 6400 walled @ 7980s


----------



## Ichirou

centvalny said:


> Imc testing sp91 cpu with 27c water, mem air
> 
> Valid 8240
> https://valid.x86.fr/2r2zi6
> View attachment 2555601
> 
> 
> 7600 c32 tight secs&terts
> View attachment 2555602


Godly DDR5 IMC lol
And probably golden chip RAM, or maybe you're juicing it with 2.0V+?


----------



## centvalny

Ichirou said:


> Godly DDR5 IMC lol
> And probably golden chip RAM, or maybe you're juicing it with 2.0V+?


Imo most ks water with decent hynix air and Apex can scale it easy


----------



## sugi0lover

centvalny said:


> Imc testing sp91 cpu with 27c water, mem air
> 
> Valid 8240
> https://valid.x86.fr/2r2zi6
> 
> 
> Request Trial Download AIDA64 Engineer (beta) 6.60.5944 | AIDA64
> 
> 
> View attachment 2555601
> 
> 
> 7600 c32 tight secs&terts. Cpu can go higher but the other half of Gskill 6400 walled @ 7980s
> View attachment 2555602


Very nice. one question. I see you are using bios 0070 and its build date is 3/23/2022. I thought 0070 is older than that.
Is this modified one with 0070 bios? If so, can you share it?


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

sugi0lover said:


> Very nice. one question. I see you are using bios 0070 and its build date is 3/23/2022. I thought 0070 is older than that.
> Is this modified one with 0070 bios? If so, can you share it?


I just installed this bios just recently tonight and I am seeing how it goes. I got it from here:









Test BIOS for Maximus Z690 Apex | bianbao.dev







bianbao.dev





So far it's ok...


----------



## Nizzen




----------



## Falkentyne

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2555632
> View attachment 2555633


Nizzen, what cpu bracket is that and how do you get one of those in the USA?  Thank you!!


----------



## Nizzen

Falkentyne said:


> Nizzen, what cpu bracket is that and how do you get one of those in the USA?  Thank you!!


It will be avaiable in stores in a few weeks. Most likely here first PC Systeme & Komponenten online kaufen | CASEKING . Then other shops that sells "Thermalgrizzley /der8auer " stuff


----------



## johnksss

fat4l said:


> Hm I'm not happy with my chip....
> 
> Anyone selling any high SP 12900K?


Maybe...


----------



## matique

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2555632
> View attachment 2555633


Wonder if flattened stock IHS would work better than the rockit copper ihs. Looking forward to your testing 👍


----------



## fat4l

Nizzen said:


> Where have you been the last 15 years?
> Intel has never been cherrypicket-silicon.com nor has Amd
> 
> Not even on 2000$ 7980xe/9980xe/10980xe


This is why it's a shame siliconlottery.com is out of business
My previous chip was from them and I was sooooo happy with it. Paid 2x the price but that's what you would expect if anyone here sold any high sp chip anyway...


----------



## sugi0lover

MrTOOSHORT said:


> I just installed this bios just recently tonight and I am seeing how it goes. I got it from here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Test BIOS for Maximus Z690 Apex | bianbao.dev
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bianbao.dev
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So far it's ok...
> 
> View attachment 2555629


Can someone modify bios 0070 avx512 enabled and share? Thanks in advance!


----------



## fat4l

Nizzen said:


> View attachment 2555632
> View attachment 2555633


Are they preparing any delid tool as well?


----------



## 7empe

So I pushed my 12900KF to the clock limit achieving 30221 pts in CBR23. Clocks are gaming stable.

I think it scores better than average of SP88 (P97, E72).

*P-Cores*
Can't do 53x no matter the voltage though I tried up to 1.31V die sense - higher is not coolable. Disabling E-Cores does not help - 53x is no-can-do.
52.5x needs 30 mV more than 52x, but 52.6x requires 50 mV more than 52x - pointless for 10 MHz.

Floor load voltage for CBR23 stability (30 min loop) is following:

48x 1045 mV
49x 1081 mV
50x 1126 mV
51x 1163 mV
52x 1225 mV
52.5x 1253 mV

*E-Cores*
42x is a limit. 1.31V die sense under load is not enough even for 42.5x, they just crash.

*Ring*
Can do slightly below 43x with E-Cores, and slightly below 50x without them.









What's really intresting is that in tests made by this guy for 51x P-Cores ratio he had following floor voltage for CB:

12900KS SP100: 1172 mV (hitting 76C)
12900K SP113: 1154 mV
12900K SP96: 1217 mV

12900KF SP97 (my sample): 1163 mV is only 10 mV higher than his K SP113 and 10 mV lower than his KS SP100! Really strange  I had better thermals during the test, because for 51x during CB I reached 69C max temp (7C lower than his 12900KS SP100).


----------



## fat4l

7empe said:


> So I pushed my 12900KF to the clock limit achieving 30221 pts in CBR23. Clocks are gaming stable.
> 
> I think it scores better than average of SP88 (P97, E72).
> 
> *P-Cores*
> Can't do 53x no matter the voltage though I tried up to 1.31V die sense - higher is not coolable. Disabling E-Cores does not help - 53x is no-can-do.
> 52.5x needs 30 mV more than 52x, but 52.6x requires 50 mV more than 52x - pointless for 10 MHz.
> 
> Floor load voltage for CBR23 stability (30 min loop) is following:
> 
> 48x 1045 mV
> 49x 1081 mV
> 50x 1126 mV
> 51x 1163 mV
> 52x 1225 mV
> 52.5x 1253 mV
> 
> *E-Cores*
> 42x is a limit. 1.31V die sense under load is not enough even for 42.5x, they just crash.
> 
> *Ring*
> Can do slightly below 43x with E-Cores, and slightly below 50x without them.
> View attachment 2555651
> 
> 
> What's really intresting is that in tests made by this guy for 51x P-Cores ratio he had following floor voltage for CB:
> 
> 12900KS SP100: 1172 mV (hitting 76C)
> 12900K SP113: 1154 mV
> 12900K SP96: 1217 mV
> 
> 12900KF SP97 (my sample): 1163 mV is only 10 mV higher than his K SP113 and 10 mV lower than his KS SP100! Really strange  I had better thermals during the test, because for 51x during CB I reached 69C max temp (7C lower than his 12900KS SP100).


sometimes its about the chip and its "hard wall" mate. Once you hit it you cant push any further unless you cool the chip down. THis is why we always test not just with 5.2G coz it may look like the chip can do it ez with low volts but then again it cant do 5.3G at all, same as in your example.


----------



## OffBeatViBE

Do you guys prefer OCTVB with Curve OC or the usual all core method ? I'm just wondering how to proceed with my newly built system.


----------



## 7empe

OffBeatViBE said:


> Do you guys prefer OCTVB with Curve OC or the usual all core method ? I'm just wondering how to proceed with my newly built system.


For gaming? Absolutely go for OCTVB.
For heavy AVX computing? I would go for manual voltage and static all-core ratio for lowest possible vcore without transients occurring while switching frequencies (c-states off).


----------



## david12900k

Lord Alzov said:


> 7000 CR1


Can you share your Apex 1T settings? I still am having trouble stabilizing 6400cl32 1T on my apex


----------



## Bilco

So binning K vs KS is lowest voltage for 5.2 or 5.3 prefered, or both?

Additionally, what's the procedure for fixing the SP bug? I think I recall reading it involves reflashing and reseating the CPU or something?

I am going to flash to the 1403 Bios and test my current 12900k then the KS to see if it is worth keeping and am trying to not reseat/repast the CPU more than I have too


----------



## Nizzen

7empe said:


> For gaming? Absolutely go for OCTVB.
> For heavy AVX computing? I would go for manual voltage and static all-core ratio for lowest possible vcore without transients occurring while switching frequencies (c-states off).


Battlefield gaming: All core, because use of avx and 8 to 12 cores. Loading maps is using ALL threads. Even 36 threads on my 7980xe 😅


----------



## bscool

Bilco said:


> So binning K vs KS is lowest voltage for 5.2 or 5.3 prefered, or both?
> 
> Additionally, what's the procedure for fixing the SP bug? I think I recall reading it involves reflashing and reseating the CPU or something?
> 
> I am going to flash to the 1403 Bios and test my current 12900k then the KS to see if it is worth keeping and am trying to not reseat/repast the CPU more than I have too


If you read back just a few post it might give you more info. But just because a cpu can do a low voltage at say 52 doesnt mean it will run 54 all core. i have had 2 12900kf with p core of 101 and 104. But neither will do 54 all core on r15, 20 and 23 like my KS does.

So I think if you want high clock all core you need to test at that clock.


----------



## 7empe

Bilco said:


> So binning K vs KS is lowest voltage for 5.2 or 5.3 prefered, or both?
> 
> Additionally, what's the procedure for fixing the SP bug? I think I recall reading it involves reflashing and reseating the CPU or something?
> 
> I am going to flash to the 1403 Bios and test my current 12900k then the KS to see if it is worth keeping and am trying to not reseat/repast the CPU more than I have too


SP is re-calculated every time you do the power cycle. Just turn off psu for few minutes. No need to re-seat a cpu. I had such SP bug once and it did not disappear after reboots. I had to do the power cycle.


----------



## johnksss

Here is what i got using frame chasers method...
SP98 12900K
























SP97 12900KS


----------



## fat4l

johnksss said:


> Here is what i got using frame chasers method...
> SP98 12900K
> View attachment 2555667
> View attachment 2555668
> 
> View attachment 2555682
> 
> 
> SP97 12900KS
> View attachment 2555683
> View attachment 2555684
> 
> 
> View attachment 2555681


Can you compare 5.2 and 5.3 G and possibly 5.4g?


----------



## johnksss

fat4l said:


> Can you compare 5.2 and 5.3 G and possibly 5.4g?


Compare it to what exactly?


----------



## fat4l

To each other. The scaling . Both of your chips are pretty good so it would be interesting to see how they scale further past 5.1G


----------



## Lord Alzov

6800 CR1 !!! CL30


----------



## johnksss

fat4l said:


> To each other. The scaling . Both of your chips are pretty good so it would be interesting to see how they scale further past 5.1G


5.4G at 1.3V and lower is the scaling depending on what is being benched. Now that changes per board per llc per auto this and that and setting voltages. I ran auto vcore voltage and get a 1.288V R23 Cinebench run and others a 1.3V or 1.305V or 1.314V.

Edit:


----------



## david12900k

Lord Alzov said:


> 6800 CR1 !!! CL30


What are your voltages? Do you have a good set of starting settings I can try. I tried loosening the timings, upping voltage. Nothing seems to work for me with 6400 1t


----------



## fat4l

johnksss said:


> 5.4G at 1.3V and lower is the scaling depending on what is being benched. Now that changes per board per llc per auto this and that and setting voltages. I ran auto vcore voltage and get a 1.288V R23 Cinebench run and others a 1.3V or 1.305V or 1.314V.
> 
> Edit:
> View attachment 2555695


So which one is a better chip in your eyes ? your KS or K?


----------



## SoldierRBT

johnksss said:


> 5.4G at 1.3V and lower is the scaling depending on what is being benched. Now that changes per board per llc per auto this and that and setting voltages. I ran auto vcore voltage and get a 1.288V R23 Cinebench run and others a 1.3V or 1.305V or 1.314V.
> 
> Edit:
> View attachment 2555695


My KS SP87 can pass R23 54 E43 R45 at 1.261v underload but it's extremely hot 95C. My SP91 KF does this at 1.314v and it gets 90C.


----------



## johnksss

SoldierRBT said:


> My KS SP87 can pass R23 54 E43 R45 at 1.261v underload but it's extremely hot 95C. My SP91 KF does this at 1.314v and it gets 90C.
> View attachment 2555706


Back to back 10 runs? That is impressive. Those settings in the picture are not mine. It was based off of brother falkentyne's settings.


----------



## johnksss

fat4l said:


> So which one is a better chip in your eyes ? your KS or K?


Don't know yet as this is not my main board. My board is a Unify-X which is in RMA. So im just throwing random stuff at it for the time being.


----------



## SoldierRBT

johnksss said:


> Back to back 10 runs? That is impressive. Those settings in the picture are not mine. It was based off of brother falkentyne's settings.


The 54 E43 R45 at 1.261v run was only once. I'm not able to cool it even with MORA3 420mm 8x200mm fans... Ambient temp is 23-25C
53 E42 R44 R23 was 10 mins 80C 1.18v underload


----------



## Dinnzy

What do you all think about this mount ? This ks was giving me **** temps, the last one mounted way better. Do you think this is because I favor the hard tubing of the block on one side ?


----------



## jomama22

Dinnzy said:


> What do you all think about this mount ? This ks was giving me **** temps, the last one mounted way better. Do you think this is because I favor the hard tubing of the block on one side ?


No. Can try remounting but KS seem to be leaky chips overall.


----------



## johnksss

SoldierRBT said:


> The 54 E43 R45 at 1.261v run was only once. I'm not able to cool it even with MORA3 420mm 8x200mm fans... Ambient temp is 23-25C
> 53 E42 R44 R23 was 10 mins 80C 1.18v underload


So I tried 5.5 and this is what I get.
5.4 PC
4.1 EC
4.5 Cache


----------



## SoldierRBT

johnksss said:


> So I tried 5.5 and this is what I get.
> 5.4 PC
> 4.1 EC
> 4.5 Cache
> View attachment 2555736


Very nice. What temps? What vcore does it need for 4.3 ecores?


----------



## fat4l

johnksss said:


> So I tried 5.5 and this is what I get.
> 5.4 PC
> 4.1 EC
> 4.5 Cache
> View attachment 2555736


Can you post your bios settings pls? What settings do you change? What voltages do you adjust? Is there any trick to stabilise 5.4G I don't know of? With freidns we tested 5 KS chips, 2 of them had p cores SP 100 and 102, but could do more than 5.3G with 1.27v under load, and sctually that 100 sp one couldn't even do 5.3G reasonably lol. .

Am I missing some setting in bios I need to touch apart from vcore voltage and llc?


----------



## mmpol

I just test my 12900ks samble on unify x I got it stable in linpack at 5.3 ghz all core 1.27 v (e core disabled)under load anyone know what kinda sp it is? It not very good sample from what i read


----------



## CENS

Guys anyone has a SP95+ 12900KS for sale? Should be able to do 5.4GHz R20 on normal ambient temps...


----------



## johnksss

SoldierRBT said:


> Very nice. What temps? What vcore does it need for 4.3 ecores?


That's just it. To me that voltage is unrealistic. I'll need to run a voltage meter to know if that is true or not.

Not sure yet. I'll start on ecore later today.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

mmpol said:


> I just test my 12900ks samble on unify x I got it stable in linpack at 5.3 ghz all core 1.27 v (e core disabled)under load anyone know what kinda sp it is? It not very good sample from what i read


That's a good sample. Linpack is way harder to do than cinebench. That chip should do 5.4 extremely easy. 5.5 might even be doable depending on temps.

Lots of 12900Ks can't even do 5.2 fully stable in linpack.


----------



## bscool

SoldierRBT said:


> The 54 E43 R45 at 1.261v run was only once. I'm not able to cool it even with MORA3 420mm 8x200mm fans... Ambient temp is 23-25C
> 53 E42 R44 R23 was 10 mins 80C 1.18v underload


What block do you have? I have old Raystorm and just a 280 rad my temps are decent for what it is. Hard to compare voltages since I am on Strix d4 right now. Ill test it sometime in the Apex.

I can run r23 with less voltage but it wont run r15.


----------



## Talon2016

johnksss said:


> That's just it. To me that voltage is unrealistic. I'll need to run a voltage meter to know if that is true or not.
> 
> Not sure yet. I'll start on ecore later today.


That KS chip you got is a banger. Keep the KS and dump the K.


----------



## fat4l

Can anyone pls mention what is necessary to change in the bios to stabilise high clocks? Thanks


----------



## bscool

fat4l said:


> Can you post your bios settings pls? What settings do you change? What voltages do you adjust? Is there any trick to stabilise 5.4G I don't know of? With freidns we tested 5 KS chips, 2 of them had p cores SP 100 and 102, but could do more than 5.3G with 1.27v under load, and sctually that 100 sp one couldn't even do 5.3G reasonably lol. .
> 
> Am I missing some setting in bios I need to touch apart from vcore voltage and llc?


I wonder if it is a limit of itx MB. I am on a Strix d4 and no issues with 54 if the chip can do it. I dont set anything special in bios.

What MB have you all tried?


----------



## fat4l

bscool said:


> I wonder if it is a limit of itx MB. I am on a Strix d4 and no issues with 54 if the chip can do it. I dont set anything special in bios.
> 
> What MB have you all tried?


I wonder about that too. I tested only using my mini ITX. Maybe it's your chip 

Is thre any other voltage you set apart from llc and vcore?


----------



## bscool

fat4l said:


> I wonder about that too. I tested only using my mini ITX. Maybe it's your chip
> 
> Is thre any other voltage you set apart from llc and vcore?


No not other than for memory oc like d ram and sa/vddq.


----------



## Revv23

Falkentyne said:


> Stockfish will do this and chess programs run for hours when you're studying.


I've never even heard of those things. Why run a chess engine 24/7? 

Either way - thats why I said "most people" and not "all people." If your plan is to 100% load it 100% of the time then I agree it does put out some heat in that use case. I would probably be undervolting and even possibly downclocking it just to save on air conditioning and my electric bill.


----------



## david12900k

No matter what I did, I could not get 6400 1T stable with ANY settings. But I finally did it with EXTREMELY loose timings. I just needed something stable to start from. I will keep my progress documented.
Apex: 1403 bios
5.4p/4.3e/4.4 ring

6400 1T
CL 40,60,60,120
Stock Secondary and Tertiary Subtimings

SystemAgent: 1.2v
VDD/VDDQ: 1.5
VDDQTX: 1.5
MC: 1.3v

now that I have SOMETHING stable, im going to start dialing in the timings. Hopefully by doing this, ill learn what each of the voltages do in regards to 1T

Already have some interesting results. I wanted to see if I could step down the voltage at all
1.45 for VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX fail -> Lets try to isolate if it was just 1 of them or all of them that were unstable
1.5 VDD/VDDQ, 1.45 VDDQTX FAIL -> So VDDQTX needs more than 1.45 v confirmed
1.5 VDD 1.45 VDDQ 1.5 VDDQTX -> Maybe we can lower VDDQ? also fail.

Tried to lower CAS to 32 and it passed!
Tried lowering 2nd and 3rd timings to 39 (stock), so 32-39-39-120 and that failed with 1 error 5 mins in, gonna try more vdd/vddq/vddqtx voltage


----------



## Revv23

Nizzen said:


> "Just to point this out, we have 5800X3D with 228 avg FPS vs 12900KS with ~200 avg FPS."
> 
> 
> 
> Worthless numbers. Looks like WE have to test 5800x3d....



This looks like the same overlay from the people that showed DDR5 having like a 25% increase in gaming performance before ADL was launched. I would be skeptical until we see more.


----------



## SoldierRBT

johnksss said:


> That's just it. To me that voltage is unrealistic. I'll need to run a voltage meter to know if that is true or not.
> 
> Not sure yet. I'll start on ecore later today.


I think voltage is correct (die sense). Just changed thermal paste, dropped ecores to x41 and can pass R23 1.225v 81C


----------



## Dinnzy

johnksss said:


> Don't know yet as this is not my main board. My board is a Unify-X which is in RMA. So im just throwing random stuff at it for the time being.


What was wrong with the unify x?


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

SoldierRBT said:


> I think voltage is correct (die sense). Just changed thermal paste, dropped ecores to x41 and can pass R23 1.225v 81C
> View attachment 2555756


Nice chip! How high do your e cores clock? What's ur chips SP rating?


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

johnksss said:


> Here is what i got using frame chasers method...
> SP98 12900K
> View attachment 2555667
> View attachment 2555668
> 
> View attachment 2555682
> 
> 
> SP97 12900KS
> View attachment 2555683
> View attachment 2555684
> 
> 
> View attachment 2555681


Good clear info here! ~1.1V under load for 5.1 GHz is extremely good! Nice chip!


----------



## sugi0lover

sharing OC result of my friend's

12900KS SP96 (P108, E72)
CinR23 30 Min pass
all cores P54 / E43 / C45
7200-30-42-42-28-340-2T
Max Water Temp 28.9C
Vcore voltage under load : 1.261 (LLC7) , it can be lowered further but he wants the seup to be conservative.










[Edit] SP screen


----------



## gecko991

Noice work.


----------



## fat4l

all those lucky guys with 5.4G chips..


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> sharing OC result of my friend's
> 
> 12900KS SP96 (P108, E72)
> CinR23 30 Min pass
> all cores P54 / E43 / C45
> 7200-30-42-42-28-340-2T
> Max Water Temp 28.9C
> Vcore voltage under load : 1.261 (LLC7) , it can be lowered further but he wants the seup to be conservative.
> 
> View attachment 2555764


That's a 108 P core rated KS? Hmm seems like more voltage for 5.4 than I would have expected but obviously still a KILLER chip! What p core rating do you expect a similiar 12900K would have? 115ish?


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

fat4l said:


> all those lucky guys with 5.4G chips..


I thought urs did 5.4?


----------



## david12900k

I still can't figure out 5.5 all core with E cores on. May try with E cores off this weekend


----------



## sugi0lover

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> That's a 108 P core rated KS? Hmm seems like more voltage for 5.4 than I would have expected but obviously still a KILLER chip! What p core rating do you expect a similiar 12900K would have? 115ish?


Yes 12900KS below. As I said, his cpu voltage can be lowered, but he wants conservative voltage not minimum voltage as Summer is coming.
I posted his test with this CPU and 12900K (P115) and P115 requires 0.04v lower than KS 108 P-SP CPU.
I am going to have SP103 K this week and I will post some result.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

david12900k said:


> I still can't figure out 5.5 all core with E cores on. May try with E cores off this weekend


Get ur temps down. Ur cpu seems really similiar to mine. Mine will do 5.5 all day without e cores on because i can run 1.32V (1.306V die sense) and my hottest core only hits like 83C. But with e cores at that same voltage it hits like 92C and it will crash at 5.5. If I get my ambient temp down below 20C it passes (just barely). 

My buddy is running like 1.35V (again die sense) to hit 5.5 all core and he's not even hitting 88C. He's on an ek velocity2 1700 block. I ordered one of those this past weekend to try out. I'm hoping since maybe it's designed for lga 1700 and has the back plate that it can drop my temps a few C vs my Optimus Signature block.

Fingers crossed. But try getting ur temps down and it'll do it for sure.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> Yes 12900KS below. As I said, his cpu voltage can be lowered, but he wants conservative voltage not minimum voltage as Summer is coming.
> I posted his test with this CPU and 12900K (P115) and P115 requires 0.04v lower than KS 108 P-SP CPU.
> I am going to have SP103 K this week and I will post some result.
> View attachment 2555775


Awesome love to hear it! I ordered an ASUS Strix A D4 board yesterday. So I should have my sp rating soon. And I can also play with ddr4


----------



## johnksss

SoldierRBT said:


> Very nice. What temps? What vcore does it need for 4.3 ecores?


I have to let you know when I re run that bench. i was on my way out the door at the time. Also my temps are going to be different as I have a water chiller.



fat4l said:


> Can you post your bios settings pls? What settings do you change? What voltages do you adjust? Is there any trick to stabilise 5.4G I don't know of? With freidns we tested 5 KS chips, 2 of them had p cores SP 100 and 102, but could do more than 5.3G with 1.27v under load, and sctually that 100 sp one couldn't even do 5.3G reasonably lol. .
> 
> Am I missing some setting in bios I need to touch apart from vcore voltage and llc?


You can use just auto and LLC6 and see if it will let you bench @5.4 then go from there.



Talon2016 said:


> That KS chip you got is a banger. Keep the KS and dump the K.


I wont really know till it's on my Unify-X board. It might say I dont like dual slot memory. LOL



fat4l said:


> Can anyone pls mention what is necessary to change in the bios to stabilise high clocks? Thanks


When you find the answer, please let me know!



SoldierRBT said:


> I think voltage is correct (die sense). Just changed thermal paste, dropped ecores to x41 and can pass R23 1.225v 81C
> View attachment 2555756


Messing around with LLC can trick voltage into what ever you basically want it to say. It can not trick a voltage meter attached to voltage points on the board. Just my 2 cents on what I saw in the 30 minutes of testing it out.



Dinnzy said:


> What was wrong with the unify x?


The reset light, cpu light and the board still had power when it was suppose to be completely off. The OC module was also still on. I sent it in for RMA and they got it and said they repaired it and sent it back. What it looked like was the clean it a tiny bit and put it in a new box and sent it back. So I called and they are taking it back and giving me another one. Suffice it to say I did not power that board on with my shiny new parts for shyts and giggles! Broke it back down and sent it back with paid shipping from MSI.


----------



## sugi0lover

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Awesome love to hear it! I ordered an ASUS Strix A D4 board yesterday. So I should have my sp rating soon. And I can also play with ddr4


looking forward to your result. One point to mention is that his 7200 CL30 Ram OC definitely requires higher core voltages than lower Ram OC result. 
You should also consider this ^^


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> looking forward to your result. One point to mention is that his 7200 CL30 Ram OC definitely requires higher core voltages than lower Ram OC result.
> You should also consider this ^^


Hmm yeah I haven't tested I just run mine at 7000 (7200 1T no longer fully stable on this new bios.) Haven't had time to troubleshoot why yet, and also I haven't finished my ram profile yet. Have basically no time at the moment. Hoping to be done with this house soon enough.


----------



## sugi0lover

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Hmm yeah I haven't tested I just run mine at 7000 (7200 1T no longer fully stable on this new bios.) Haven't had time to troubleshoot why yet, and also I haven't finished my ram profile yet. Have basically no time at the moment. Hoping to be done with this house soon enough.


And here is my opinion. I don't think CPUs can be compared based on voltage unless they are tested under the one same setup.
Even with the same MB brand, people use different way of setup of voltages, llc, global, vram and etc, so voltages can be misleading sometimes.
Also different maker MBs show different voltages. For example, from my experience before with EVGA Dark, the same CPU I used showed lower voltages but used higher power consumption and temp than the other maker MB, that lead me think it actually was using higher voltage when matched to the other MB...misleading. I am not sure 12th Dark voltages are like that or not though.
So my way of judging CPU is what's the max OC it can reach under the normal temp over 20C. This is just one man's opinion though.
Anyway thanks for all your inputs and info~


----------



## david12900k

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Get ur temps down. Ur cpu seems really similiar to mine. Mine will do 5.5 all day without e cores on because i can run 1.32V (1.306V die sense) and my hottest core only hits like 83C. But with e cores at that same voltage it hits like 92C and it will crash at 5.5. If I get my ambient temp down below 20C it passes (just barely).
> 
> My buddy is running like 1.35V (again die sense) to hit 5.5 all core and he's not even hitting 88C. He's on an ek velocity2 1700 block. I ordered one of those this past weekend to try out. I'm hoping since maybe it's designed for lga 1700 and has the back plate that it can drop my temps a few C vs my Optimus Signature block.
> 
> Fingers crossed. But try getting ur temps down and it'll do it for sure.


That's the block I have


----------



## david12900k

sugi0lover said:


> looking forward to your result. One point to mention is that his 7200 CL30 Ram OC definitely requires higher core voltages than lower Ram OC result.
> You should also consider this ^^


What do you mean by this? CPU core voltage affects mem oc?


----------



## sugi0lover

david12900k said:


> What do you mean by this? CPU core voltage affects mem oc?


I mean Ram OC affects Core voltages 😊
Usually, higher Ram OC requires higher core voltages.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> And here is my opinion. I don't think CPUs can't be compared based on voltage unless they are tested under the one same setup.
> Even with the same MB brand, people use different way of setup of voltages, llc, global, vram and etc, so voltages can be misleading sometimes.
> Also different maker MBs show different voltages. For example, from my experience before with EVGA Dark, the same CPU I used showed lower voltages but used higher power consumption and temp than the other maker MB, that lead me think it actually was using higher voltage when matched to the other MB...misleading. I am not sure 12th Dark voltages are like that or not though.
> So my way of judging CPU is what's the max OC it can reach under the normal temp over 20C. This is just one man's opinion though.
> Anyway thanks for all your inputs and info~


A very reasonable take. I'll know more once my ASUS mobo arrives and I can compare. I'll be sure to update. But my friend and I are both using the Dark mobo with same LLC. So we should be fairly comparable. Obviously some CPUs run hotter than others and that is what cannot be accounted for.


----------



## david12900k

sugi0lover said:


> I mean Ram OC affects Core voltages 😊
> Usually, higher Ram OC requires higher core voltages.


Maybe thats my issue. I have been trying 6400 1T and nothing seems to be working. Maybe i just need to up my core voltage?


----------



## sugi0lover

david12900k said:


> Maybe thats my issue. I have been trying 6400 1T and nothing seems to be working. Maybe i just need to up my core voltage?


If your cores/cache are stable without ram oc much, you need higher voltage for ram oc.
Especially high e-cores and cache sometimes be the reason of unstable ram oc, so I recommend lowering e-core 42/ cache 43 and try your ram oc there.


----------



## david12900k

sugi0lover said:


> If your cores/cache are stable without ram oc much, you need higher voltage for ram oc.
> Especially high e-cores and cache sometimes be the reason of unstable ram oc, so I recommend lowering e-core 42/ cache 43 and try your ram oc there.


That is interesting. I am running e cores at 43 and cache at 44, so i will try to lower those. Thank you for the advice


----------



## Ichirou

david12900k said:


> That is interesting. I am running e cores at 43 and cache at 44, so i will try to lower those. Thank you for the advice


Lock all of your P- and E-cores and Cache to like 20x multiplier and test to see whether or not the IMC will boot a higher frequency.
If not, then no point in wasting time; either the IMC or the board won't let you POST higher.

High quality P-cores =/= guaranteed high quality DDR5 IMC. Igor's Lab found that out themselves when they binned the chips.
You could have a high P-core SP of 110+ but have a trash tier IMC. There is no correlation from what they've discovered.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Finally Had a chance to play with my CPU a bit more. Heres the max I can do at 22C ambient. Over 400 watts power draw! But she does 5.5!


----------



## domdtxdissar

Nizzen said:


> Intel system: *DDR5-4800C40*
> 
> Actual epic fail.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PRIMER resultado EN GAMING del AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D
> 
> 
> PRIMER resultado EN GAMING del AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Tenemos el primer resultado EN GAMING del procesador AMD Ryzen 7
> 
> 
> 
> 
> xanxogaming.com


Well this aint much better, but some more "even" numbers: AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Zen3 CPU has finally been tested in games

The bad:


> The website has put 5800X3D against Alder Lake system using the same memory type: DDR4-3200 CL14. Those are clearly not ideal specs for a high-end system, no matter if powered by Zen3 or Alder Lake architecture, but at least it is consistent across testing. Furthermore, gaming tests are performed using GeForce RTX 3080 Ti Founders Edition, so no more comparison between different models of GPUs.


The good:








Full "review" with 1080p *and* 720p numbers @ XanxoGaming 

_edit_

*Bonus: The Witcher 3 – Intel Core i9-12900K DDR4-3600 CL14 data*
To check if there was any scalability with this title in particular, we installed *4 DIMMs of DDR4-3600 CL14* kits in our system. _There was definitely an improvement over 3200C14_ so next step is benchmark *12900K DDR5-6200 C40*.








Too bad they only tested with slowish 3200MT/s..
Should have used dd4 @ 3800 for x3d and ddr5 @ 6800 for AL

Other (official) reviews in 2 days..


----------



## Hfhjfg

domdtxdissar said:


> Other (official) reviews in 2 days..


While I can understand making CPU tests in 720p, I would make tests at least in 1080p. And to be real, at least in 2k with high to ultra graphics settings.
720p / low graphics settings can't be considered as real-life CPU tests, since no one from top-tier CPU buyers will use 12900ks/5800x with these settings.

If they want to compare CPUs they need to test in CPU-specific workloads (rendering, code compilation, etc)
If they want to compare CPUs in gaming workloads, they need to be real. Who of 12900ks/5800x users will care about 720p or even 1080p?

p.s. also agree, testing ddr4 3200 is the facepalm


----------



## fat4l

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> I thought urs did 5.4?


No mate. 5.3 g with 1.27v under load ..that's rather crap cpu. I already returned it.


----------



## david12900k

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Finally Had a chance to play with my CPU a bit more. Heres the max I can do at 22C ambient. Over 400 watts power draw! But she does 5.5!
> View attachment 2555804


Nice!!


----------



## david12900k

Ichirou said:


> Lock all of your P- and E-cores and Cache to like 20x multiplier and test to see whether or not the IMC will boot a higher frequency.
> If not, then no point in wasting time; either the IMC or the board won't let you POST higher.
> 
> High quality P-cores =/= guaranteed high quality DDR5 IMC. Igor's Lab found that out themselves when they binned the chips.
> You could have a high P-core SP of 110+ but have a trash tier IMC. There is no correlation from what they've discovered.


It boots just fine. It's just that I can't


Ichirou said:


> Lock all of your P- and E-cores and Cache to like 20x multiplier and test to see whether or not the IMC will boot a higher frequency.
> If not, then no point in wasting time; either the IMC or the board won't let you POST higher.
> 
> High quality P-cores =/= guaranteed high quality DDR5 IMC. Igor's Lab found that out themselves when they binned the chips.
> You could have a high P-core SP of 110+ but have a trash tier IMC. There is no correlation from what they've discovered.


For me the problem isnt being able to boot a higher frequency, but simply run the XMP frequency with command rate 1T. Here is what I did:
I tried EVERY setting I could think of the run the stock timings at 6400 1T on my Gskill 6400 cl32 kit, but nothing would pass TM5

Finally decided "Screw it" and ran with extremely loose timings and this is what happened:
Tried 6400 1T @ 40-60-60-120. 1.2 SA, 1.5 VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX, 1.3MC = PASS
Tried lowering VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX to 1.45, FAIL
So now I have a stable setting. I first tried lowering CL to 32 and that pass
Then I tried lowering the 2 middle timings to 39 (which is stock) so CL 32-39-39-120 at 1.2 SA, 1.5 VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX and 1.3 MC = FAIL

Here is what is frustrating me, I tried so many voltages to get CL 32-39-39-120 stable, but nothings seems to work:
Tried Upping voltages to 1.53v for VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX, didnt work
Tried upping voltages to 1.6 v for VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX, didnt work
Tried upping MC to 1.35, fail
Tried lowering MC to 1.275 fail
Tried lowering MC to 1.25 fail
Tried upping SA to 1.25 fail
Tried lowering SA to 1.15 fail
Tried lowering SA to 1.05 fail
Tried lowering SA to .95 fail

Tried using CL 32-42-42-120 fail

At this point, I dont know how to stabilize those middle to timings... anyone have any ideas?


----------



## SuperMumrik

domdtxdissar said:


> *Bonus: The Witcher 3 – Intel Core i9-12900K DDR4-3600 CL14 data*


Numbers don't add up though. Can't make my 12900k perform that bad in witcher even if I really tried


----------



## murkok5

СуперМумрик said:


> Хотя цифры не складываются. Я не могу заставить мои 12900k работать так плохо в Ведьмаке, даже если я очень постараюсь
> [/ЦИТИРОВАТЬ]
> так же


----------



## AdamK47

I've had my 12900KS for a week now. Enjoying it so far.

Tried disabling Enhanced TVB for a more traditional overclock. 5.2GHz all PCore is all I can get Prime95 stable no matter what voltage or LLC.

Keeping Enhanced TVB enabled and enabling "Enhanced Muli-Core Performance Mode" (Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Master) will allow me to run 5.3GHz all PCore stable with 5.4GHz when the CPU is within the threshold that TVB allows it. It doesn't apply any additional voltage or increase LLC, yet remains stable.

I think I'll keep it this way. 5.3/5.4 and runs cooler compared to my 12900K at 5.1GHz.


----------



## johnksss

sugi0lover said:


> And here is my opinion. I don't think CPUs can be compared based on voltage unless they are tested under the one same setup.
> Even with the same MB brand, people use different way of setup of voltages, llc, global, vram and etc, so voltages can be misleading sometimes.
> Also different maker MBs show different voltages. For example, from my experience before with EVGA Dark, the same CPU I used showed lower voltages but used higher power consumption and temp than the other maker MB, that lead me think it actually was using higher voltage when matched to the other MB...misleading. I am not sure 12th Dark voltages are like that or not though.
> So my way of judging CPU is what's the max OC it can reach under the normal temp over 20C. This is just one man's opinion though.
> Anyway thanks for all your inputs and info~


Very well said!


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

david12900k said:


> It boots just fine. It's just that I can't
> 
> For me the problem isnt being able to boot a higher frequency, but simply run the XMP frequency with command rate 1T. Here is what I did:
> I tried EVERY setting I could think of the run the stock timings at 6400 1T on my Gskill 6400 cl32 kit, but nothing would pass TM5
> 
> Finally decided "Screw it" and ran with extremely loose timings and this is what happened:
> Tried 6400 1T @ 40-60-60-120. 1.2 SA, 1.5 VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX, 1.3MC = PASS
> Tried lowering VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX to 1.45, FAIL
> So now I have a stable setting. I first tried lowering CL to 32 and that pass
> Then I tried lowering the 2 middle timings to 39 (which is stock) so CL 32-39-39-120 at 1.2 SA, 1.5 VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX and 1.3 MC = FAIL
> 
> Here is what is frustrating me, I tried so many voltages to get CL 32-39-39-120 stable, but nothings seems to work:
> Tried Upping voltages to 1.53v for VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX, didnt work
> Tried upping voltages to 1.6 v for VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX, didnt work
> Tried upping MC to 1.35, fail
> Tried lowering MC to 1.275 fail
> Tried lowering MC to 1.25 fail
> Tried upping SA to 1.25 fail
> Tried lowering SA to 1.15 fail
> Tried lowering SA to 1.05 fail
> Tried lowering SA to .95 fail
> 
> Tried using CL 32-42-42-120 fail
> 
> At this point, I dont know how to stabilize those middle to timings... anyone have any ideas?


More vddqtx. ASUS boards seem to want that to be very high. System agent has also helped me stabilize higher ddr5 frequencies.


----------



## Lord Alzov

david12900k said:


> It boots just fine. It's just that I can't
> 
> For me the problem isnt being able to boot a higher frequency, but simply run the XMP frequency with command rate 1T. Here is what I did:
> I tried EVERY setting I could think of the run the stock timings at 6400 1T on my Gskill 6400 cl32 kit, but nothing would pass TM5
> 
> Finally decided "Screw it" and ran with extremely loose timings and this is what happened:
> Tried 6400 1T @ 40-60-60-120. 1.2 SA, 1.5 VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX, 1.3MC = PASS
> Tried lowering VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX to 1.45, FAIL
> So now I have a stable setting. I first tried lowering CL to 32 and that pass
> Then I tried lowering the 2 middle timings to 39 (which is stock) so CL 32-39-39-120 at 1.2 SA, 1.5 VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX and 1.3 MC = FAIL
> 
> Here is what is frustrating me, I tried so many voltages to get CL 32-39-39-120 stable, but nothings seems to work:
> Tried Upping voltages to 1.53v for VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX, didnt work
> Tried upping voltages to 1.6 v for VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX, didnt work
> Tried upping MC to 1.35, fail
> Tried lowering MC to 1.275 fail
> Tried lowering MC to 1.25 fail
> Tried upping SA to 1.25 fail
> Tried lowering SA to 1.15 fail
> Tried lowering SA to 1.05 fail
> Tried lowering SA to .95 fail
> 
> Tried using CL 32-42-42-120 fail
> 
> At this point, I dont know how to stabilize those middle to timings... anyone have any ideas?


USe my CMO file.


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/947983428823957564/963506824273887363/6400.CMO


----------



## david12900k

Lord Alzov said:


> USe my CMO file.
> 
> 
> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/947983428823957564/963506824273887363/6400.CMO


Where is the cmo file?
Oh the link didn't render for me


----------



## fat4l

Finally I found a good chip  SP 102 p cores.
Can pass R20 and R23, at 5.4G with all cores enabled, at 1.38V LLC6 = 1.341V under load(socket sense).
I guess that's ok right ?  

5.4G @ 1.38 LLC6 = 1.341V load (cooling is a problem, cores getting to 97C lol)
5.3G @ 1.27 LLC6 = 1.243V load (max temp 79C)
5.2G @ 1.20 LLC6 = 1.172V load (Max temp 71C)


----------



## Ichirou

fat4l said:


> Finally I found a good chip  SP 102 p cores.
> Can pass R20 and R23, at 5.4G with all cores enabled, at 1.38V LLC6 = 1.341V under load(socket sense).
> I guess that's ok right ?
> 
> 5.4G @ 1.38 LLC6 = 1.341V load (cooling is a problem, cores getting to 97C lol)
> 5.3G @ 1.27 LLC6 = 1.243V load (max temp 79C)
> 5.2G @ 1.20 LLC6 = 1.172V load (Max temp 71C)


"Okay" is subjective; it all depends on what multipliers and voltage you want your CPU to run at.
It might be cool to chase after numbers, but once you get around to _actually using the PC_, what you've spent your time to do doesn't really matter since you'd probably lock your CPU to a lower multiplier anyway for longevity.

Not enough emphasis is put into memory overclocking, IMHO. A significant amount of performance gains can be had there.
Most 12900s can hit 5.3 GHz just fine with enough voltage and cooling, but not all of them can achieve high RAM frequencies due to IMC quality. And that is hard to bin.

All else held equal, I can assure you that the one with the better memory overclock will achieve more performance than the one without, assuming both use the exact same CPU multipliers.


----------



## david12900k

Lord Alzov said:


> USe my CMO file.
> 
> 
> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/947983428823957564/963506824273887363/6400.CMO


What is ASUS Enhanced Memory Profile?


----------



## david12900k

Lord Alzov said:


> USe my CMO file.
> 
> 
> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/947983428823957564/963506824273887363/6400.CMO


Your CMO would not boot for me. Im going to just take the DRAM related settings and see if I can apply those by themselves


----------



## xarot

How do you cool these things? Seems like switching from NH-D15 to custom loop EK XE360+DDC+EK block (both solutions having 1700 mounts) the switch didn't help dramatically. Cooling issues quite seemingly start once the CPU just pushes enough wattage through the tiny die and the heat cannot escape quick enough. By default with limits removed my 12900KS reached even 285W and reaching insane temperatures. 

Now trying adaptive -50 mV and Intel default limits but temps are still high. Quite disappointed with the thermals. Techspot review said the 12900KS is even more difficult to cool than 12900K which was already very hard with my SP85 12900K that I sold. Tbh while not a fair comparison but this chip is much harder to cool than my W-3175X that could push easily 500~600W+ when overclocking but using only paste under IHS on a huge die.

Should I try delid next?


----------



## Ichirou

xarot said:


> How do you cool these things? Seems like switching from NH-D15 to custom loop EK XE360+DDC+EK block (both solutions having 1700 mounts) the switch didn't help dramatically. Cooling issues quite seemingly start once the CPU just pushes enough wattage through the tiny die and the heat cannot escape quick enough. By default with limits removed my 12900KS reached even 285W and reaching insane temperatures.
> 
> Now trying adaptive -50 mV and Intel default limits but temps are still high. Quite disappointed with the thermals. Techspot review said the 12900KS is even more difficult to cool than 12900K which was already very hard with my SP85 12900K that I sold. Tbh while not a fair comparison but this chip is much harder to cool than my W-3175X that could push easily 500~600W+ when overclocking but using only paste under IHS on a huge die.
> 
> Should I try delid next?


Not enough radiators. You need a _lot_.


----------



## domdtxdissar

SuperMumrik said:


> Numbers don't add up though. Can't make my 12900k perform that bad in witcher even if I really tried


*AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Review - The Magic of 3D V-Cache*










> Things look different when it comes to gaming. It seems games are an ideal workload for higher cache sizes, which is probably why AMD has been shipping their Ryzen processors with relatively large caches compared to Intel even though cache takes up a lot of silicon die area, which costs money. Averaged over our 10 games at the CPU-bottlenecked 720p resolution, the Ryzen 7 5800X3D can gain an impressive 10% in performance over its 5800X counterpart. This is enough to make it the fastest gaming CPU right behind the Intel Core i9-12900K and i9-12900KS. Considering Intel's Alder Lake comes with a new and improved core architecture, runs almost 1 GHz higher, and has faster DDR5 memory, this is an impressive achievement. It also means Intel has defended their "World's fastest Gaming Processor" claim, but differences are minimal when looking at the averages. Individual games will show vastly different results, though. The highlights here are Borderlands 3 and Far Cry 5. Borderlands 3, which has been extremely CPU limited in all our testing, gains an enormous 43% (!!) in FPS. Far Cry 5 is the most memory-sensitive title in our test suite; +35%, wow! The rest of our games do gain some FPS, but differences aren't as big. You're probably wondering why Counter-Strike CS:GO is only 5% faster. I suspect it's because the game's hot data already fits into the cache of most processors, so the larger L3 cache doesn't have as much of an effect.


It is worth noting that TPU ran 5800X3D with 2x 16GB DDR4- *3600MT/s 16-20-20-34 GDM* memory and Alder Lake CPUs with 2x 16GB DDR5-6000 (36-36-36-76 2T / Gear 2.

I would say this is very bad timings for 3600MT/s speeds nowadays.. 3800 16-16-16-32 would have been a much more "even" benchmark against AL on ddr5 6000 CL36
For a comparison, with my current rig i run *3800MT/s 13-14-12-22 *real T1

Oh well.. 2 more days to official benchmarks


----------



## xarot

Ichirou said:


> Not enough radiators. You need a _lot_.


I see. But even 285W doesn't sound a whole lot of thermal load alone for a good thick radiator, the water temp doesn't really have the time to rise .


----------



## Electrosoft

xarot said:


> How do you cool these things? Seems like switching from NH-D15 to custom loop EK XE360+DDC+EK block (both solutions having 1700 mounts) the switch didn't help dramatically. Cooling issues quite seemingly start once the CPU just pushes enough wattage through the tiny die and the heat cannot escape quick enough. By default with limits removed my 12900KS reached even 285W and reaching insane temperatures.
> 
> Now trying adaptive -50 mV and Intel default limits but temps are still high. Quite disappointed with the thermals. Techspot review said the 12900KS is even more difficult to cool than 12900K which was already very hard with my SP85 12900K that I sold. Tbh while not a fair comparison but this chip is much harder to cool than my W-3175X that could push easily 500~600W+ when overclocking but using only paste under IHS on a huge die.
> 
> Should I try delid next?


Did you pick up the 12900ks in the hopes of having a cooler running chip versus your 12900k SP85? If so, how does it run when you set it to 12900k spec compared to your previous 12900k 4.9 all core?


----------



## Nizzen

domdtxdissar said:


> *AMD Ryzen 7 5800X3D Review - The Magic of 3D V-Cache*
> View attachment 2555879
> 
> 
> It is worth noting that TPU ran 5800X3D with 2x 16GB DDR4- *3600MT/s 16-20-20-34 GDM* memory and Alder Lake CPUs with 2x 16GB DDR5-6000 (36-36-36-76 2T / Gear 2.
> 
> I would say this is very bad timings for 3600MT/s speeds nowadays.. 3800 16-16-16-32 would have been a much more "even" benchmark against AL on ddr5 6000 CL36
> For a comparison, with my current rig i run *3800MT/s 13-14-12-22 *real T1
> 
> Oh well.. 2 more days to official benchmarks


3800 is "max" on 5800x3d, so 7200 would be fair


----------



## domdtxdissar

Nizzen said:


> 3800 is "max" on 5800x3d, so 7200 would be fair


Yes ok 😇


----------



## xarot

Electrosoft said:


> Did you pick up the 12900ks in the hopes of having a cooler running chip versus your 12900k SP85? If so, how does it run when you set it to 12900k spec compared to your previous 12900k 4.9 all core?


Something like that yeah, but unfortunately that was months ago, didn't have my 12900K for long and didn't take any proper notes. I guess the results I am seeing are quite expected, have to check how delidding could help with the temps.


----------



## Nizzen

xarot said:


> I see. But even 285W doesn't sound a whole lot of thermal load alone for a good thick radiator, the water temp doesn't really have the time to rise .


Delid is the cure, like on 7980xe


----------



## Nizzen

domdtxdissar said:


> Yes ok 😇
> View attachment 2555880
> View attachment 2555881
> View attachment 2555882


Safedisk says:


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ichirou said:


> Not enough radiators. You need a _lot_.


What he's describing is not as much radiators as it is thermal transfer. First would be to use some good thermal paste and check your CPU contact and make sure its making contact across the whole IHS. If that doesnt fix it, I would look at trying a new block. EK isn't always the best known for having great blocks. I'm about to try a new EK Velocity 2 block I've heard some people have great reviews about. I'm currently using my old Optimus Signature V2 block and it seems to cool up to about 350w no problems. At max OC I'm hitting 425w and hitting mid 90s on my hottest cores so it does ultimately have its limits. But 285w is absolutely coolable. Shouldn't be that difficult.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> What he's describing is not as much radiators as it is thermal transfer. First would be to use some good thermal paste and check your CPU contact and make sure its making contact across the whole IHS. If that doesnt fix it, I would look at trying a new block. EK isn't always the best known for having great blocks. I'm about to try a new EK Velocity 2 block I've heard some people have great reviews about. I'm currently using my old Optimus Signature V2 block and it seems to cool up to about 350w no problems. At max OC I'm hitting 425w and hitting mid 90s on my hottest cores so it does ultimately have its limits. But 285w is absolutely coolable. Shouldn't be that difficult.


Maybe it's better to just LM the entire IHS with the waterblock and expect to replace the blocks every so often... Maybe when the coolant's changed.
Or sand the waterblock in hopes that it can be reused.


----------



## Aurosonic

I've a problem runnin XTU Benchmark with 12900k. XTU 2.0 runs just fine with 10643 score, but XTU 1 starts and then immediatly stops for some reason. Lowering CPU freq. doesn't help. Any ideas what could be the issue ? I'm using latest 7.7.0.12 ver.


----------



## jomama22

domdtxdissar said:


> Yes ok 😇
> View attachment 2555880
> View attachment 2555881
> View attachment 2555882


Think it more concerning that a 12700k is $370 and 2.5% behind and can have core OC and just as well of mem OC. It's a cool chip but it doesn't make sense to get one compared to Intel's midrange/high end atm. 

Will have to wait an see how well fclk OC'ing goes with that much cache slapped on it.


----------



## sugi0lover

Another great oc (not my oc) to share~

12900K (SP104 / P117 / E77, delided)
P55 / E43 / C45 (all cores)
CineR23 10 Min pass
Vcore 1.296v under load (1.36 llc7 Bios Input)
G.skill 6400 C32 oc to 7200 C32, VDD 1.5 / VDDQ 1.47 / TX 1.45 / SA 1.05
Max Water Temp 27.5C

[OC result - Cine score is a little lower because hwinfo was running at the same time]









[Without Hwinfo, Cine score got better]


----------



## Aurosonic

sugi0lover said:


> [OC result - Cine score is a little lower because hwinfo was running at the same time]


You can always get maximum scores if running CB23 with realtime priority


----------



## EEE-RAY

So I unboxed a 12900ks yesterday and it says SP 93. So another average chip. That’s life.

I am seeing bios VIDs ranging from 1.46 and 1.488! That seems insanely high for regular use - is it typical for these KS editions?


----------



## bscool

EEE-RAY said:


> So I unboxed a 12900ks yesterday and it says SP 93. So another average chip. That’s life.
> 
> I am seeing bios VIDs ranging from 1.46 and 1.488! That seems insanely high for regular use - is it typical for these KS editions?


My KS is p98 e80 SP92. I take the SP with a grain of salt. The IMC on my KS is slightyl better than 2 KFs I had for ddr5 and for dd4 it is on par with the best I have doing DR bdie 4266c15 gear 1. So depends what you want.

Also my KS will do 54 all core where neither of my higher P core 101 and 104 KF CPUs can run 54 all core and pass r15, 20 and 23.


----------



## EEE-RAY

bscool said:


> My KS is p98 e80 SP92. I take the SP with a grain of salt. The IMC on my KS is slightyl better than 2 KFs I had for ddr5 and for dd4 it is on par with the best I have doing DR bdie 4266c15 gear 1. So depends what you want.
> 
> Also my KS will do 54 all core where neither of my higher P core 101 and 104 KF CPUs can run 54 all core and pass r15, 20 and 23.


My KS is almost identical! 99 p core 80 e core. What are your vids like? I had an absolute dog of a K with SP80 and had trouble getting any stability at 6400 ddr5, so not too unhappy. Hopefully this chips silicon quality is overall better and I can get my ram stable and under volt a bit to reduce heat (yes it’s an oxymoron with 12900ks but I am still going to try).


----------



## david12900k

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> More vddqtx. ASUS boards seem to want that to be very high. System agent has also helped me stabilize higher ddr5 frequencies.


Im working on finding the lowest voltage for 5.5 all core with e cores disabled


----------



## bscool

EEE-RAY said:


> My KS is almost identical! 99 p core 80 e core. What are your vids like? I had an absolute dog of a K with SP80 and had trouble getting any stability at 6400 ddr5, so not too unhappy. Hopefully this chips silicon quality is overall better and I can get my ram stable and under volt a bit to reduce heat (yes it’s an oxymoron with 12900ks but I am still going to try).


Apex bios 1403

12900ks


----------



## david12900k

david12900k said:


> Im working on finding the lowest voltage for 5.5 all core with e cores disabled


12900KS 5.5 All Core E cores disabled - LLC4
Bios Set: 1.324 + .055v, load in HWInfo 1.323v : temps in high 80's low 90's during run: C23: 22874
Going to try going lower
I really want to delid now

My Core #1 stays at 82c @ 5.5 GHz, so if I want to oc one core super high, thats the one


----------



## EEE-RAY

How much more heat/OC margin did you get by disabling E-core?


----------



## david12900k

EEE-RAY said:


> How much more heat/OC margin did you get by disabling E-core?


I wasn't able to hit 5.5 with E cores on but I could with E cores on. Temps went from 95-100c to 85-95c


----------



## BelowAverageIQ

bscool said:


> Also my KS will do 54 all core where neither of my higher P core 101 and 104 KF CPUs can run 54 all core and pass r15, 20 and 23.


Wow nice. My KS is SP92 (P99, E78) and cannot get 5.4 all core with E disabled at any voltage. Any tips? Was using LLC 7 on an Asus Hero, G.skill 6000Mhz DDR5

Cheers


----------



## Dinnzy

Switched my loop to soft tubing hoping to make switching out CPU’s faster… on my first few startups I was getting resets, I was thinking maybe it was a short from a screw?!? Well on the 4th reboot I got the msi your cpu is overheating error instantly and I realized no water was getting to the block… I feel so stupid, the block actually felt incredibly hottttt. my pride and joy 5.3 at 1.22 underload in r20 can no longer pass the same settings. My temps also seem quite higher, do you think I fried this ****er or could a bad mount actually effect the voltage needed under load? If she done I’ll just go roll again at MC🙃


----------



## bscool

BelowAverageIQ said:


> Wow nice. My KS is SP92 (P99, E78) and cannot get 5.4 all core with E disabled at any voltage. Any tips? Was using LLC 7 on an Asus Hero, G.skill 6000Mhz DDR5
> 
> Cheers


No, I didnt do anything special. On Strix d4 I just set llc6 and static vcore 1.38v pcore 54, 3 core 42 cache 45. I think it is lotto.


----------



## DungeonKeeper1

Intel Core i9-12900KS im Test 

Powerconsumption of a ks is like out of hell. 
Up to 70% more as a Standard 12900k. 

In autumn ryzen 7000 is coming and i think then AMD is much more faster and power efficient. First tests shows ryzen 3d is faster. 

Im looking forward what raptor lake would bring.


----------



## SuperMumrik

domdtxdissar said:


> I would say this is very bad timings for 3600MT/s speeds nowadays.. 3800 16-16-16-32 would have been a much more "even" benchmark against AL on ddr5 6000 CL36


I'd like to argue that ADL on 6000c36 is even worse compared to the potential..

However, 5800x3d seems to better than expected and it's a drop in upgrade on my Strix B550 mobo so I might get one to play around with 😀


----------



## EEE-RAY

Throttling question - as I am running some stress tests it says in hwinfo that cores 4 and 5 throttled (those are the best cores that go to 5.5). From what I can see they only hit a peak of 91C - they weren't even the hottest cores. Does "throttling" in this situation means that its limiting boost clocks due to temp or are the cores hitting the TJMAX without displaying the temp in HWinfo?


----------



## BelowAverageIQ

bscool said:


> No, I didnt do anything special. On Strix d4 I just set llc6 and static vcore 1.38v pcore 54, 3 core 42 cache 45. I think it is lotto.


I think you are right, VERY much a lotto. Strange that two very similar SP chips behave so differently. I know SP is not everything and did see that with the SP84 I had, which was 5 degrees cooler at same volts and speeds.

As I mentioned, I tried 5.4 all P core (E cores disabled) from 1.310v to 1.400v LLC 7 which would boot ok and browse ok, but when running Cinebench R15 or R23 could not finish/freeze.

Was not expecting to run it at 5.4Ghz as a daily setting, but wanted to see if I could get there. Nope. Sigh.

Glad you have a great chip.

Cheers


----------



## Ichirou

BelowAverageIQ said:


> I think you are right, VERY much a lotto. Strange that two very similar SP chips behave so differently. I know SP is not everything and did see that with the SP84 I had, which was 5 degrees cooler at same volts and speeds.
> 
> As I mentioned, I tried 5.4 all P core (E cores disabled) from 1.310v to 1.400v LLC 7 which would boot ok and browse ok, but when running Cinebench R15 or R23 could not finish/freeze.
> 
> Was not expecting to run it at 5.4Ghz as a daily setting, but wanted to see if I could get there. Nope. Sigh.
> 
> Glad you have a great chip.
> 
> Cheers


Should honestly be content with 5.3 GHz all-core. 5.4+ is really just for benching and is not a realistic daily multiplier.
Unless you have some P-core 110+ (K/KF) or 100+ (KS) that can let you do 5.4 all-core under 1.35V, it's not worth it.


----------



## david12900k

Ichirou said:


> Should honestly be content with 5.3 GHz all-core. 5.4+ is really just for benching and is not a realistic daily multiplier.
> Unless you have some P-core 110+ (K/KF) or 100+ (KS) that can let you do 5.4 all-core under 1.35V, it's not worth it.


Only a few of us can do that. 1.33v set, 1.217 under load 5.4 all core. Takes roughly SP 103 p cores to do 5.4 all core daily it seems. I have so 105 p cores


----------



## BelowAverageIQ

Ah thanks guys. Yeah my Pcores are only 99. Oh well. Was more interested to see if it could do it. So far 5.3Ghz at 1.315 (bios) seems ok. Still getting to 90 degrees on some cores though at test with E cores enabled. Not really after benchmarks.

Probably going to drop it to 5.2Ghz all Pcore at 1.215 (bios) for everyday and get the temps a bit lower.

Cheers


----------



## fat4l

Guys guys guys look what I just found 

O yeah












Ok a quick test at 5.3 and 5.4G

All core enabled.
5.3 R23 1.225v load voltage
5.4 R23 1.305v load voltage
That's socket sense so die sense would be even lower

Finally a good chip.


----------



## david12900k

fat4l said:


> Guys guys guys look what I just found
> 
> O yeah
> 
> View attachment 2555938
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok a quick test at 5.3 and 5.4G
> 
> All core enabled.
> 5.3 R23 1.225v load voltage
> 5.4 R23 1.305v load voltage
> 
> Finally a good chip.


Hell yeah. Welcome to the 105 p core club


----------



## Dinnzy

Can a bad mount effect the needed load voltage if a prior OC is not working ?


----------



## fat4l

From my experience its the chip itself. There's a big difference between the KS chips. One would think otherwise as there are supposed to be binned by intel and still the difference is massive. I had some that could only do 5.2G and now I've got one that can do 5.4G easy.


----------



## fat4l

BTw guys, whats the difference bwtween between die sense and socke sense volts ? is there any general rule about that ? Could someone with asus Maximus Motherboard test that for me ? 
Lets say set 1.3V in bios with LLC6, set sensing to Socket sense, test under load and see what it gives you, then change to die sense in bios and test again what it gives u under load.
THx


Btw Silicon lottery says this:








Intel Core i9 10900K @ 5.2GHz Boxed Processor


Intel Core i9 10900K Overclocked and Binned CPU.




siliconlottery.com




Vcore under heavy load @ 1.400V BIOS, 1.310V Socket Sense, 1.210V Die Sense. (LLC3) = >>>>> 0.1V difference ? Could it be?


----------



## 7empe

fat4l said:


> BTw guys, whats the difference bwtween between die sense and socke sense volts ? is there any general rule about that ? Could someone with asus Maximus Motherboard test that for me ?
> Lets say set 1.3V in bios with LLC6, set sensing to Socket sense, test under load and see what it gives you, then change to die sense in bios and test again what it gives u under load.
> THx
> 
> 
> Btw Silicon lottery says this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9 10900K @ 5.2GHz Boxed Processor
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9 10900K Overclocked and Binned CPU.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> siliconlottery.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vcore under heavy load @ 1.400V BIOS, 1.310V Socket Sense, 1.210V Die Sense. (LLC3) = >>>>> 0.1V difference ? Could it be?


No difference. It is the same voltage but measured at two different places: at the socket or at the chip. Voltage drop between socket and die is natural. Every obstacle on the current path from the VRM to the CPU will cause voltage to drop. If you're intrested in the chip voltage requirement you should always look at the die sense value - it is simply the most accurate voltage that gets to your CPU.


----------



## fat4l

7empe said:


> No difference. It is the same voltage but measured at two different places: at the socket or at the chip. Voltage drop between socket and die is natural. Every obstacle on the current path from the VRM to the CPU will cause voltage to drop. If you're intrested in the chip voltage requirement you should always look at the die sense value - it is simply the most accurate voltage that gets to your CPU.


That's exaclty what I want to do but don;t have any ability to test it as my Strix board does not support die sense. THat is the reason I want to know approximately what is the die sense voltage vs socket sense voltage difference so I can approximately manually calculate it ?


----------



## Ichirou

david12900k said:


> Only a few of us can do that. 1.33v set, 1.217 under load 5.4 all core. Takes roughly SP 103 p cores to do 5.4 all core daily it seems. I have so 105 p cores





BelowAverageIQ said:


> Ah thanks guys. Yeah my Pcores are only 99. Oh well. Was more interested to see if it could do it. So far 5.3Ghz at 1.315 (bios) seems ok. Still getting to 90 degrees on some cores though at test with E cores enabled. Not really after benchmarks.
> 
> Probably going to drop it to 5.2Ghz all Pcore at 1.215 (bios) for everyday and get the temps a bit lower.
> 
> Cheers


Yeah, point was just that 5.4+ GHz is not a realistic daily multiplier to run at unless the chip is binned well enough to not use much voltage.
5.3 GHz and below is much more normal. 12th Gen is still too new, and the rate of degradation is unknown.
Best not to risk a good chip until a year or two passes to see how things pan out. Unless you're planning to get another CPU and don't care.


----------



## Nizzen

Ichirou said:


> Yeah, point was just that 5.4+ GHz is not a realistic daily multiplier to run at unless the chip is binned well enough to not use much voltage.
> 5.3 GHz and below is much more normal. 12th Gen is still too new, and the rate of degradation is unknown.
> Best not to risk a good chip until a year or two passes to see how things pan out. Unless you're planning to get another CPU and don't care.


Question is: Who play cinebench 24/7 on a overclocked 12900k? 5.4ghz is easy in most games. I playing "cinebench" on Threadripper, and playing games on 12900k


----------



## 7empe

fat4l said:


> That's exaclty what I want to do but don;t have any ability to test it as my Strix board does not support die sense. THat is the reason I want to know approximately what is the die sense voltage vs socket sense voltage difference so I can approximately manually calculate it ?


I think it will be hard to give you precise answer. It can be anywhere between 50-120 mV. Board specific thing.


----------



## Gargas

Dinnzy said:


> Can a bad mount effect the needed load voltage if a prior OC is not working ?


Yes, definitely a bad mount can make a difference, for me a 10c improvement was about 27mv less load voltage and 18w less power draw running cb23 @5.5.

It made it possible for my cpu to run cb23 @5.6 as well.

Your cpu is likely fine.


----------



## fat4l

7empe said:


> I think it will be hard to give you precise answer. It can be anywhere between 50-120 mV. Board specific thing.


Hmm. ok and do we know where measuring points on my mobo is ? I could use multimeter to test it  
and what is the die sense volt limits for 12900KS? safe voltage 24/7 OC


----------



## Ichirou

fat4l said:


> and what is the die sense volt limits for 12900KS? safe voltage 24/7 OC


That's the thing. Nobody knows.
But you should be safe under 1.30-1.35V daily; probably not die sense.


----------



## Gadfly

david12900k said:


> No matter what I did, I could not get 6400 1T stable with ANY settings. But I finally did it with EXTREMELY loose timings. I just needed something stable to start from. I will keep my progress documented.
> Apex: 1403 bios
> 5.4p/4.3e/4.4 ring
> 
> 6400 1T
> CL 40,60,60,120
> Stock Secondary and Tertiary Subtimings
> 
> SystemAgent: 1.2v
> VDD/VDDQ: 1.5
> VDDQTX: 1.5
> MC: 1.3v
> 
> now that I have SOMETHING stable, im going to start dialing in the timings. Hopefully by doing this, ill learn what each of the voltages do in regards to 1T
> 
> Already have some interesting results. I wanted to see if I could step down the voltage at all
> 1.45 for VDD/VDDQ/VDDQTX fail -> Lets try to isolate if it was just 1 of them or all of them that were unstable
> 1.5 VDD/VDDQ, 1.45 VDDQTX FAIL -> So VDDQTX needs more than 1.45 v confirmed
> 1.5 VDD 1.45 VDDQ 1.5 VDDQTX -> Maybe we can lower VDDQ? also fail.
> 
> Tried to lower CAS to 32 and it passed!
> Tried lowering 2nd and 3rd timings to 39 (stock), so 32-39-39-120 and that failed with 1 error 5 mins in, gonna try more vdd/vddq/vddqtx voltage


That are some really high voltages for just 6400 1T, What do your timings look like? What MB is this on? Samsung IC's, or Hynix? Is your memory air cooled? Do you have a fan blowing on the DIMMS (If not, add one, it makes a HUGE difference)? 

You shouldn't need that much SA, or anywhere near that much VDD/VDDQ/TX. MC, 1.3v is high, but maybe that is what you need. MC voltage tends to sweet spot, more is not always better. I sweet spot at 1.19373v to 1.212v on MC, if I try to run 1.3v MC I will get errors all over the place, I also find that SA voltage set to say 1.2v will lead to errors I don't get running SA stock. Just as is the case with MC, Running more SA is not always better. Each CPU will have a slightly different stock SA value. On the Asus boards set your SA to "Offset" and leave the Offset value to "Auto". It should be around 0.94v to 0.96v. Mine defaults to 0.938v for 6400C30 2T I can leave it stock at 1.212v MC, or run +0.020v and run MC at 1.19373v.

You should also be careful with VDDQTX, that is an internal CPU voltage; I have no direct knowledge of what is safe and what isn't, but I have seen some guidance suggesting that 1.45v is the upper limit of what would be considered safe for long term use (Think it was a Buildzoid video)

Also, DDR5 spec calls out that VDD/VDDQ should be the same, and that at boot there should be no more than a 50mv difference between the two. If I recall there is also a limit on the difference between the two in operation, but I don't remember what is is, 300mv maybe? Supposedly, exceeding those limits could damage the memory.

So I would try this:

6400C30 1T
1.45/1.45/1.45 VDD/Q/TX
SA: Offset, Auto

Then for MC try, these Key voltage points:

1.138, 1.156, 1.175, 1.193, 1.212v, 1.231v, 1.250v, etc. (+3 steps or about +18mv)


----------



## Gadfly

Ichirou said:


> Maybe it's better to just LM the entire IHS with the waterblock and expect to replace the blocks every so often... Maybe when the coolant's changed.
> Or sand the waterblock in hopes that it can be reused.


This is why nickel plated blocks exist. You don't have to sand or replace the blocks if they are nickel plated.


----------



## Gadfly

DungeonKeeper1 said:


> Intel Core i9-12900KS im Test
> 
> Powerconsumption of a ks is like out of hell.
> Up to 70% more as a Standard 12900k.
> 
> In autumn ryzen 7000 is coming and i think then AMD is much more faster and power efficient. First tests shows ryzen 3d is faster.
> 
> Im looking forward what raptor lake would bring.


It absolutely isn't faster... Not to mention you have to deal with all of AMD's bullshit.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ran this with my new ram profile. Had to drop to 7000 1T to get full stability. Still happy with this setup overall so far.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Ran this with my new ram profile. Had to drop to 7000 1T to get full stability. Still happy with this setup overall so far.
> View attachment 2555989


Y cruncher?


----------



## Gadfly

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Ran this with my new ram profile. Had to drop to 7000 1T to get full stability. Still happy with this setup overall so far.
> View attachment 2555989


How much VDD/VDDQ are you running? Are you really running 3.8V?


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Y cruncher?


Havent tried y cruncher. This is a KS chip so it doesnt have AVX 512. = Neutered. Ive got other 12900Ks for that bench. Unfortunately none of them are as good as this one.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Gadfly said:


> How much VDD/VDDQ are you running? Are you really running 3.8V?


3.8V on what? Im sure thats an error. VDDQ is like 1.255. Memory at 1.61V


----------



## Gadfly

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> 3.8V on what? Im sure thats an error. VDDQ is like 1.255. Memory at 1.61V


Look at the DIMMS in HWinfo in your SS.

That said, holy [email protected]#, running 70001T at VDD 1.61v... Pure awesome.


----------



## Nizzen

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Ran this with my new ram profile. Had to drop to 7000 1T to get full stability. Still happy with this setup overall so far.
> View attachment 2555989


Aida64?


----------



## postem

Gadfly said:


> It absolutely isn't faster... Not to mention you have to deal with all of AMD's bullshit.


That is a thing i dont get, i was on 12700K, nearing 195W, changed for a 12900K, i as expecting it nearing 240W that is the limit, but doing cinebench 23 and realbench, at least hwinfo is around 200W.
No amp caps, its on auto asus limits, so 4024W, only prime95 manages to suprass 200W. Running at stock + TVB+2. 
On regular use (not hammering like cb), i hardly hit 150W. All **** people cry about alder lake inefficiency is bullshit.

At cinebench, doing around 1.15v on cb23, using default asus typical svid behaviour. My 12700K was doing 1.2v+. 12900K looks like much more efficient than 12700k.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Nizzen said:


> Aida64?


49.1ish with e cores enabled. Still tweaking. Not really sure what's considered good. Need to performance test further


----------



## Nizzen

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> 49.1ish with e cores enabled. Still tweaking. Not really sure what's considered good. Need to performance test further


Don't worry about a few ns up or down. That's just a background service or two 
Stripped down windows and closed explorer isn't very real life, but just benchmark fun 😊


----------



## Lord Alzov

Improve cruncher on 5400


----------



## david12900k

Gadfly said:


> That are some really high voltages for just 6400 1T, What do your timings look like? What MB is this on? Samsung IC's, or Hynix? Is your memory air cooled? Do you have a fan blowing on the DIMMS (If not, add one, it makes a HUGE difference)?
> 
> You shouldn't need that much SA, or anywhere near that much VDD/VDDQ/TX. MC, 1.3v is high, but maybe that is what you need. MC voltage tends to sweet spot, more is not always better. I sweet spot at 1.19373v to 1.212v on MC, if I try to run 1.3v MC I will get errors all over the place, I also find that SA voltage set to say 1.2v will lead to errors I don't get running SA stock. Just as is the case with MC, Running more SA is not always better. Each CPU will have a slightly different stock SA value. On the Asus boards set your SA to "Offset" and leave the Offset value to "Auto". It should be around 0.94v to 0.96v. Mine defaults to 0.938v for 6400C30 2T I can leave it stock at 1.212v MC, or run +0.020v and run MC at 1.19373v.
> 
> You should also be careful with VDDQTX, that is an internal CPU voltage; I have no direct knowledge of what is safe and what isn't, but I have seen some guidance suggesting that 1.45v is the upper limit of what would be considered safe for long term use (Think it was a Buildzoid video)
> 
> Also, DDR5 spec calls out that VDD/VDDQ should be the same, and that at boot there should be no more than a 50mv difference between the two. If I recall there is also a limit on the difference between the two in operation, but I don't remember what is is, 300mv maybe? Supposedly, exceeding those limits could damage the memory.
> 
> So I would try this:
> 
> 6400C30 1T
> 1.45/1.45/1.45 VDD/Q/TX
> SA: Offset, Auto
> 
> Then for MC try, these Key voltage points:
> 
> 1.138, 1.156, 1.175, 1.193, 1.212v, 1.231v, 1.250v, etc. (+3 steps or about +18mv)


I tried what you suggested:
6400 CL 30-39-39-102 1T
1.45/1.45/1.45 VDD/Q/TX
SA Offset Auto
MC: I tried the steps you used 1.138, ...... 1.35 (where i last ended).
All failed tm5 within 10 minutes

Looking at these values, it seems like I have already tried these settings at one point or another


----------



## cletus-cassidy

I know several guys were looking for a higher SP 12900KS. I have an SP94 (P102, E78). PM me if interested.


----------



## jomama22

Nizzen said:


> Question is: Who play cinebench 24/7 on a overclocked 12900k? 5.4ghz is easy in most games. I playing "cinebench" on Threadripper, and playing games on 12900k


Tbf, for a quick and dirty performance determination it's nice. Gives you a decent idea of what tvb may provide I suppose.


----------



## jomama22

Gadfly said:


> Also, DDR5 spec calls out that VDD/VDDQ should be the same, and that at boot there should be no more than a 50mv difference between the two. If I recall there is also a limit on the difference between the two in operation, but I don't remember what is is, 300mv maybe? Supposedly, exceeding those limits could damage the memory.


That is not true fyi:









And yes, this applies to negative numbers, aka, vdd being higher than vddq.


----------



## sugi0lover

My freind oced a little further with his 12900KS P SP 108, and it's not delided one. amazing KS.

CPU : 12900KS (SP96 P108 E72)
CineR23 10 Min pass
DRAM: TeamGroup 6000 C38 1.25v
M/B: Z690 Apex Bios 0070
OC : CPU P55 E43 R45 / Ram 7200 C30-42-42-28
Core voltage : 1.323v under load (1.34v Global Bios Input)
Max Water Temp : 25.3C
Max CPU Package Power : 320W


----------



## david12900k

sugi0lover said:


> My freind oced a little further with his 12900KS P SP 108, and it's not delided one. amazing KS.
> 
> CPU : 12900KS (SP96 P108 E72)
> CineR23 10 Min pass
> DRAM: TeamGroup 6000 C38 1.25v
> M/B: Z690 Apex Bios 0070
> OC : CPU P55 E43 R45 / Ram 7200 C30-42-42-28
> Core voltage : 1.323v under load (1.34v Global Bios Input)
> Max Water Temp : 25.3C
> Max CPU Package Power : 320W
> 
> View attachment 2556023


damn, im jealous of the 5.5 all core


----------



## sugi0lover

david12900k said:


> damn, im jealous of the 5.5 all core


Can you show your oc result with hwinfo? so people may give some advice/opinion to your setup for the improvement.


----------



## david12900k

sugi0lover said:


> My freind oced a little further with his 12900KS P SP 108, and it's not delided one. amazing KS.
> 
> CPU : 12900KS (SP96 P108 E72)
> CineR23 10 Min pass
> DRAM: TeamGroup 6000 C38 1.25v
> M/B: Z690 Apex Bios 0070
> OC : CPU P55 E43 R45 / Ram 7200 C30-42-42-28
> Core voltage : 1.323v under load (1.34v Global Bios Input)
> Max Water Temp : 25.3C
> Max CPU Package Power : 320W
> 
> View attachment 2556023


Does your friend use Multicore Enhancement Auto, Enabled, or Disabled?


----------



## Bilco

Is the "global bios input" voltage just the vcore bios setting?

I finally got around to testing for 5.3ghz all core on my sp89(96pcore) 12900k
I was not able to run R23 with the following settings
e-core 41
p-core 53
bios vcore: 1.47v
llc: 4
dc_ll: 0.98
ac_ll: 0.20
IA VR 1550mv

disabling e-cores with the following settings above i was able to run R23 once, second run crashed
load voltage was 1.299

Should I have DC_LL = AC_LL while running these tests or is this fine?

I am going to go and see what the floor is for 5.2ghz now but this doesn't seem that great for 5.3 unless I am doing something wrong out of ignorance.


----------



## sugi0lover

david12900k said:


> Does your friend use Multicore Enhancement Auto, Enabled, or Disabled?


Enabled



Bilco said:


> Is the "global bios input" voltage just the vcore bios setting?
> 
> I finally got around to testing for 5.3ghz all core on my sp89(96pcore) 12900k
> I was not able to run R23 with the following settings
> e-core 41
> p-core 53
> bios vcore: 1.47v
> llc: 4
> dc_ll: 0.98
> ac_ll: 0.20
> IA VR 1550mv
> 
> disabling e-cores with the following settings above i was able to run R23 once, second run crashed
> load voltage was 1.299
> 
> Should I have DC_LL = AC_LL while running these tests or is this fine?
> 
> I am going to go and see what the floor is for 5.2ghz now but this doesn't seem that great for 5.3 unless I am doing something wrong out of ignorance.


Global Bios input is just vcore bios setting.
According to the test I have seen, 'Global Core SVID Voltage" bios input can be 0.04v lower than "Actual VRM Core voltage' bios input, so it may be misleading.
But the voltages on hwinfo64 are exactly the same if the gap is 0.04v. Here is the test result posted at Korean PC forum.

[LLC7 / Die Sense / Global Core SVID Voltage 1.24v bios input]










[LLC7 / Die Sense / Actual VRM Core Voltage 1.28 bios input]


----------



## Ichirou

Just noticed that on the QVL lists for the MSI Edge and the ASUS Strix (DDR4), the max frequency that the Strix will support on 4x16 GB is 3,600 MHz.
On the other hand, the QVL list for the MSI Edge claims to support _dozens_ of different 4x16 (64 GB) kits between 4,000 to 4,400 MHz (Single Rank).

Of course, these are obviously Gear 2 frequencies (with Gear 1 subject to IMC limitation), but perhaps there is a chance MSI is using T-Topology?
Probably not, but at least we know that a failure to boot would not be due to the motherboard but the CPU IMC instead.
Nobody here uses more than 32 GB of RAM on Z690, so it will be interesting to test and share my results to those who need high capacity for workstation purposes.

I'm just waiting on a 12900 with a binned DDR4 IMC to arrive in the mail, and then I'll let you all know. @bscool


----------



## Bilco

sugi0lover said:


> Enabled
> 
> 
> Global Bios input is just vcore bios setting.
> According to the test I have seen, 'Global Core SVID Voltage" bios input can be 0.04v lower than "Actual VRM Core voltage' bios input, so it may be misleading.
> But the voltages on hwinfo64 are exactly the same if the gap is 0.04v. Here is the test result posted at Korean PC forum.
> 
> [LLC7 / Die Sense / Global Core SVID Voltage 1.24v bios input]
> View attachment 2556037
> 
> 
> 
> [LLC7 / Die Sense / Actual VRM Core Voltage 1.28 bios input]
> View attachment 2556038


So is it best to use "Global core SVID voltage" or "Actual VRM core voltage" or does it not really matter between the two?


----------



## sugi0lover

Bilco said:


> So is it best to use "Global core SVID voltage" or "Actual VRM core voltage" or does it not really matter between the two?


It seems it doesn't matter since actual voltages are the same. But If lower voltage input makes you feel better, then global


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> My freind oced a little further with his 12900KS P SP 108, and it's not delided one. amazing KS.
> 
> CPU : 12900KS (SP96 P108 E72)
> CineR23 10 Min pass
> DRAM: TeamGroup 6000 C38 1.25v
> M/B: Z690 Apex Bios 0070
> OC : CPU P55 E43 R45 / Ram 7200 C30-42-42-28
> Core voltage : 1.323v under load (1.34v Global Bios Input)
> Max Water Temp : 25.3C
> Max CPU Package Power : 320W
> 
> View attachment 2556023


Mine runs around the same voltage but pulls nearly 100w less. Damn that thing is efficient. Pretty sure mine is also really leaky. Should bode well for LN2 use here soon!


----------



## Bilco

sugi0lover said:


> It seems it doesn't matter since actual voltages are the same. But If lower voltage input makes you feel better, then global


What do you have your DC//AC//IA VR voltage limit set to for llc7 if you dont mind me asking?


----------



## sugi0lover

Bilco said:


> What do you have your DC//AC//IA VR voltage limit set to for llc7 if you dont mind me asking?


My friend and I usually don't set anything there. auto~


----------



## Bilco

sugi0lover said:


> My friend and I usually don't set anything there. auto~


Works for me, do you run llc7 for your current 24/7 config?


----------



## david12900k

sugi0lover said:


> My friend and I usually don't set anything there. auto~


I have been focusing on a daily game stable OC. Let me re apply my C23 settings and ill post a screenshot with HWINFO on the screen


----------



## sugi0lover

Bilco said:


> Works for me, do you run llc7 for your current 24/7 config?


Yes, many of my friends and I use llc7 for 24/7.



david12900k said:


> I have been focusing on a daily game stable OC. Let me re apply my C23 settings and ill post a screenshot with HWINFO on the screen


Good~


----------



## Ichirou

Bilco said:


> Works for me, do you run llc7 for your current 24/7 config?


As long as you monitor Vcore overshoot to make sure it's not too high, max LLC is just fine. It's okay to drop down, it's just not okay to shoot up by too much.
But the benefit of max LLC providing better stability makes things so much easier for overclocking.

Plus, with adaptive voltage and some other enhancements, you don't have to run at a set high Vcore 24/7. Vcore will lower depending on load accordingly.


----------



## Falkentyne

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Mine runs around the same voltage but pulls nearly 100w less. Damn that thing is efficient. Pretty sure mine is also really leaky. Should bode well for LN2 use here soon!


That 100W less isn't really 100W less.
You're reading CPU Package Power. CPU Package Power is a function of CPU VID * whatever internal register (MSR) reports amps, not what the CPU is actually pulling. You can make your CPU report it's using 100W, 50W or even 400W just by manipulating VID, without temps or vcore changing one bit.

Asus EC in HWinfo64 (if you have a Maximus or Strix board) should report the CPU's real current draw. I'm not sure if the Asus OCTool program can report the amps draw unless you have the engineering version which has a small menu which reports IOUT and VR OUT.


----------



## david12900k

sugi0lover said:


> Yes, many of my friends and I use llc7 for 24/7.
> 
> 
> Good~


This is my OC:
SP 98 - P 105 - E 85
Running 54P/43E/43 ring
LLC 4
Runs pretty cool under load
It doesnt draw much power and isnt too hot, but when I try to run 5.5, the heat is just too much and it crashes.
I dont understand how my 54 can run so efficiently but 55 is impossible


----------



## Bilco

Ichirou said:


> As long as you monitor Vcore overshoot to make sure it's not too high, max LLC is just fine. It's okay to drop down, it's just not okay to shoot up by too much.
> But the benefit of max LLC providing better stability makes things so much easier for overclocking.
> 
> Plus, with adaptive voltage and some other enhancements, you don't have to run at a set high Vcore 24/7. Vcore will lower depending on load accordingly.


yea, I followed another users guide for initial AL OCing and I noticed absurdly high vcore(1.46-1.51) when not under heavy load boosting to 5.5ghz... 

I only saw these frequencies at the desktop and never really ever in game.

Guess I'll see if I can get 5.3Pcore with e-core around 4.0 on this LLC. The droop at llc4 was so extreme.


----------



## Ichirou

david12900k said:


> This is my OC:
> SP 98 - P 105 - E 85
> Running 54P/43E/43 ring
> LLC 4
> Runs pretty cool under load
> It doesnt draw much power and isnt too hot, but when I try to run 5.5, the heat is just too much and it crashes.
> I dont understand how my 54 can run so efficiently but 55 is impossible
> View attachment 2556052


Stability is not guaranteed over 85C. Has been like that for Intel for quite some time.


Bilco said:


> yea, I followed another users guide for initial AL OCing and I noticed absurdly high vcore(1.46-1.51) when not under heavy load boosting to 5.5ghz...
> 
> I only saw these frequencies at the desktop and never really ever in game.
> 
> Guess I'll see if I can get 5.3Pcore with e-core around 4.0 on this LLC. The droop at llc4 was so extreme.


High Vcore is fine when the PC isn't on load.


----------



## sugi0lover

david12900k said:


> This is my OC:
> SP 98 - P 105 - E 85
> Running 54P/43E/43 ring
> LLC 4
> Runs pretty cool under load
> It doesnt draw much power and isnt too hot, but when I try to run 5.5, the heat is just too much and it crashes.
> I dont understand how my 54 can run so efficiently but 55 is impossible
> View attachment 2556052


It looks nothing wrong with your setup. From my experience, there is a point that requires a lot higher voltage to increase 100Mhz.
For example, only 0.04v may be needed from (5.2 to 5.3 or 5.3 to 5.4), but 5.4 to 5.5 may require 0.1v higher. In that case, 5.5 is the point.
My SP95 (P105) was like that. My previous SP104 (P115)'s point was 5.5 to 5.6.
Unless you really lower your temp, the big increase in voltage may be needed for your cpu 5.5.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

david12900k said:


> This is my OC:
> SP 98 - P 105 - E 85
> Running 54P/43E/43 ring
> LLC 4
> Runs pretty cool under load
> It doesnt draw much power and isnt too hot, but when I try to run 5.5, the heat is just too much and it crashes.
> I dont understand how my 54 can run so efficiently but 55 is impossible
> View attachment 2556052


85 on ur e cores is damn good! Can you do 4.4 GHz on them?


----------



## xarot

Which block do you think works best for 12900KS? Looking at the EK Velocity V2 1700 currently, but got some other/older blocks in house. Optimus Foundation in my current X299 rig, then I have older ones like EK Supremacy EVO, Heatkiller IV, Alphacool XP3 etc in other PCs or storage. Not really looking to even OC yet, but not to restrict the power settings. Having trouble getting anything really repeatedly stable due to the excess heat. 

Btw for the Maximus Z690 Extreme board, every time I change some settings related to power or memory it looks like it's good to power down the whole rig and switch off PSU power, then boot again. If I don't do this stress tests usually fail instantly, but when I do this everything is stable. Same trick worked on some early X99 boards. Normal? Thinking if I should ditch the whole Extreme board and get something else. It doesn't seem to like my G.Skill 6000 CL36 kit and need a lot of manual voltage tuning. Latest BIOS.

Already ordered Rockit delid kit trying to tame the heat issue.


----------



## fat4l

david12900k said:


> This is my OC:
> SP 98 - P 105 - E 85
> Running 54P/43E/43 ring
> LLC 4
> Runs pretty cool under load
> It doesnt draw much power and isnt too hot, but when I try to run 5.5, the heat is just too much and it crashes.
> I dont understand how my 54 can run so efficiently but 55 is impossible
> View attachment 2556052


could you test for me, 2 scenarios pls ?
Set actual v core voltage in bios to 1.2 and 1.3V and for each voltage then set once die sense and once socket sense in bios, and test under load and post hwinfo pls?
This way we should have 4 voltage points to compare.
1.2V LLC4 - die sense + socket sense
1.3V LLC4 - die sense + socket sense
Set cores to 50x lets say. We are not testing stability

All I wanna see is the difference pls 

edit://
actually, LLC4, I guess we need 1.4V as well as the vdroop is high.
Culd you do all 3? 1.2 1.3 and 1.4 ?THx


----------



## sippo

xarot said:


> Which block do you think works best for 12900KS? Looking at the EK Velocity V2 1700 currently, but got some other/older blocks in house. Optimus Foundation in my current X299 rig, then I have older ones like EK Supremacy EVO, Heatkiller IV, Alphacool XP3 etc in other PCs or storage. Not really looking to even OC yet, but not to restrict the power settings. Having trouble getting anything really repeatedly stable due to the excess heat.
> 
> Btw for the Maximus Z690 Extreme board, every time I change some settings related to power or memory it looks like it's good to power down the whole rig and switch off PSU power, then boot again. If I don't do this stress tests usually fail instantly, but when I do this everything is stable. Same trick worked on some early X99 boards. Normal? Thinking if I should ditch the whole Extreme board and get something else. It doesn't seem to like my G.Skill 6000 CL36 kit and need a lot of manual voltage tuning. Latest BIOS.
> 
> Already ordered Rockit delid kit trying to tame the heat issue.











Direct Die INTEL GEN12


Direct Die INTEL GEN12




www.supercoolcomputer.com





Using this I'm able to cool CPU to 80, with CPU power draw at 400W.
Custom loop.

12900k 95 P-Core CPU. Prime95


----------



## fat4l

sippo said:


> Direct Die INTEL GEN12
> 
> 
> Direct Die INTEL GEN12
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.supercoolcomputer.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using this I'm able to cool CPU to 80, with CPU power draw at 400W.
> Custom loop.
> 
> 12900k 95 P-Core CPU. Prime95
> 
> View attachment 2556082


Are you happy with this product ? I was already looking at it yesterday. So far I ordered rockitcool delid kit which should be with me this week.
I also heard EK should be doing some direct die stuff, but not sure when. Atm i've got velocity 2 but not sure if ill be able to use it with any direct die bracket EKWB is preparing.


----------



## sippo

fat4l said:


> Are you happy with this product ? I was already looking at it yesterday. So far I ordered rockitcool delid kit which should be with me this week.
> I also heard EK should be doing some direct die stuff, but not sure when. Atm i've got velocity 2 but not sure if ill be able to use it with any direct die bracket EKWB is preparing.


Cleaning die after delid: debit card, and after that polish (same as I use sometimes for car to polish scratches) paper towel - and i get mirror on cpu

Mounting - easy
Performance - great
Dismounting - tricky - you need to get rid of water in block


----------



## fat4l

sippo said:


> Cleaning die after delid: debit card, and after that polish (same as I use sometimes for car to polish scratches) paper towel - and i get mirror on cpu
> 
> Mounting - easy
> Performance - great
> Dismounting - tricky - you need to get rid of water in block


good stuff.
Did you heat up the cpu before delid to melt the indium solder ? 

How much C degrees did you drop after delid ?(I guess you are using liquid metal paste now ye?)


----------



## david12900k

1.3v set socket sense: 1.181v in HWInfo under load
1.3v set die sense: 1.128


----------



## david12900k

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> 85 on ur e cores is damn good! Can you do 4.4 GHz on them?


I havent really tested. My guess is probably not unless I pump a TON of voltage into it.


----------



## sippo

fat4l said:


> good stuff.
> Did you heat up the cpu before delid to melt the indium solder ?
> 
> How much C degrees did you drop after delid ?(I guess you are using liquid metal paste now ye?)


heat up - no
liquid metal - yes
heatkiller and 5.2G - up to 90C, almost 300W
direct die 5.4G up to 90C - almost 400W


----------



## EEE-RAY

Can I ask some advice re: odd instability on a 12900ks

When I run prime 95 small FFTs in full stock (all intel limits enforced) I have no issues.
But when I limit all core ratio to like 50 or 52 (leaving every other settings the same) I get hard locks and bluescreens within seconds in prime 95. Not even errors, just instant blue screen/hard lock <1 minute.

The VID/Vcore in the same in both (because power limited).

I don't think its the ram, I've tested it at >2000% memtest and its been stable for month.
Its not the cooler, the temps are fine and I've tried a new cooler.

Is there a reason why limiting the peak core ratio to 52 across all cores would cause drastic instability? I would have thought the actual freqency/vcore curve would remain the same (supported by the fact that both settings have the same vcore/vid under load in P95).


----------



## david12900k

EEE-RAY said:


> Can I ask some advice re: odd instability on a 12900ks
> 
> When I run prime 95 small FFTs in full stock (all intel limits enforced) I have no issues.
> But when I limit all core ratio to like 50 or 52 (leaving every other settings the same) I get hard locks and bluescreens within seconds in prime 95. Not even errors, just instant blue screen/hard lock <1 minute.
> 
> The VID/Vcore in the same in both (because power limited).
> 
> I don't think its the ram, I've tested it at >2000% memtest and its been stable for month.
> Its not the cooler, the temps are fine and I've tried a new cooler.
> 
> Is there a reason why limiting the peak core ratio to 52 across all cores would cause drastic instability? I would have thought the actual freqency/vcore curve would remain the same (supported by the fact that both settings have the same vcore/vid under load in P95).


what setting are you using to "limit" peak core ratio? If you are using the "sync all cores" and setting that to 52, you aren't limiting the core ratios, you are setting the all core frequency to 52, and stock voltage may not support that. If you want to limit ratios you have to use the "Specific performance core" menu and set the ratio limit on Asus boards


----------



## EEE-RAY

Hang on a minute, so if I use the sync all core setting to get to 52, thats totally different from if I went and limited each core to 52 on the per core screen?

Also, the question still remains why would 5.2ghz all core be unstable? Thats the 12900ks stock clocks.


----------



## bscool

EEE-RAY said:


> Hang on a minute, so if I use the sync all core setting to get to 52, thats totally different from if I went and limited each core to 52 on the per core screen?
> 
> Also, the question still remains why would 5.2ghz all core be unstable? Thats the 12900ks stock clocks.


Intels spec of 52 is only for certain loads/time and then it clocks back according to type of load like avx and time etc.

Have HWinfo open when you run it and look at CPU power packages, voltages, clocks etc

I just updated to a new bios on Strix d4 so I ran Asus defaults vs MCE disabled(Intel Specs) on 12900ks and you can see the difference in just a few seconds of P95 small fft.

It would take some pretty heavy duty cooling to cool small fft 52 all core.


----------



## david12900k

EEE-RAY said:


> Hang on a minute, so if I use the sync all core setting to get to 52, thats totally different from if I went and limited each core to 52 on the per core screen?
> 
> Also, the question still remains why would 5.2ghz all core be unstable? Thats the 12900ks stock clocks.


It may not be in prime95... i cant know without seeing your bios exactly what you set. Also depends on temps and avx. Yes, setting the sync all core sets the actual frequency, not limit it. Like I said, depending on what motherboard you are using, in ASUS bios, you can go into "Specific Performance Core" menu and set the max frequencies there


----------



## david12900k

EEE-RAY said:


> Hang on a minute, so if I use the sync all core setting to get to 52, thats totally different from if I went and limited each core to 52 on the per core screen?
> 
> Also, the question still remains why would 5.2ghz all core be unstable? Thats the 12900ks stock clocks.


To be more specific, the Performance Core Multipliers setting (the sync all core one), tells the CPU "Here is what frequencies I want you to run at. Override stock frequency behavior (with the exception of thermal throttling and avx offset). The "Specific Performance Core" menu allows you to cap max ratios per core


----------



## EEE-RAY

So if I use sync all core to override stock frequency behavior, if my all core ratio is within intel's all core turbo ratio for the CPU, would it follow intels freq/V curve?


----------



## david12900k

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> 85 on ur e cores is damn good! Can you do 4.4 GHz on them?


I wish i could push these. It seems that when I try to set additional voltage on the E-cores, it appears the voltage I set there does not do anything. I set the e cores to 1.45 and it wasnt any more stable than before. IM thinking that the voltage the E-cores get is actually the voltage I set in the v/f curve and the additional voltage settings to just the e cores only work if the voltage set there is less than the voltage of the P cores. SO to run 4.4 on E cores, I would have to pump up the voltage of the p cores also


----------



## david12900k

EEE-RAY said:


> So if I use sync all core to override stock frequency behavior, if my all core ratio is within intel's all core turbo ratio for the CPU, would it follow intels freq/V curve?


Its a little complicated. If you JUST set the Sync All Cores, that should just affect the frequency and yes, it should still use the v/f curve. If you also modify voltage settings, then it gets complicated


----------



## EEE-RAY

So I did some tests. The "sync all core" function gives a different auto voltage at e.g. 5.2ghz all core than if I set the core limit to 5.2 ghz each core. So less voltage, and in P95 especially given that it hits the power limits of 241, less auto v core means higher auto clocks. It was like 0.95V at 4.9-5ghz. So much less V core at what should be the same frequency --> catastrophic crash. OTOH


----------



## Ichirou

david12900k said:


> I wish i could push these. It seems that when I try to set additional voltage on the E-cores, it appears the voltage I set there does not do anything. I set the e cores to 1.45 and it wasnt any more stable than before. IM thinking that the voltage the E-cores get is actually the voltage I set in the v/f curve and the additional voltage settings to just the e cores only work if the voltage set there is less than the voltage of the P cores. SO to run 4.4 on E cores, I would have to pump up the voltage of the p cores also


Vcore on Z690 is linked between the P-cores, E-cores, and Cache.
The iGPU is powered separately now, but nobody uses that anyway.


----------



## Nizzen

sippo said:


> Cleaning die after delid: debit card, and after that polish (same as I use sometimes for car to polish scratches) paper towel - and i get mirror on cpu
> 
> Mounting - easy
> Performance - great
> Dismounting - tricky - you need to get rid of water in block


That's why I used quick disconnects direct on this block on my 10900k


----------



## ManniX-ITA

Can someone with Alder Lake please test the latest version?

I would need the tracelog*.txt and dump*.txt files in the bench dir.

Thx









Release v1.0.22 Alpha · mann1x/BenchMaestro


v1.0.22 Alpha Fix: Bug preventing metrics display with CPUMiner




github.com


----------



## DSHG87

My 12900K*S* @ stock takes (IDLE) up tp 1.43V (Vcore, HWiNFO). Singlecore 5,5Ghz 1.39V and Allcore 5,2GHz 1,29V. ASUS TUF Z690 PLUS D4 with 1404 BIOS. (VID after installing CPU und loaded defaults was 1,341V @ 5200MHz.

What do you think, voltages are okay? Binning good or bad? Boxed-CPU Batch V150.


----------



## david12900k

DSHG87 said:


> My 12900K*S* @ stock takes (IDLE) up tp 1.43V (Vcore, HWiNFO). Singlecore 5,5Ghz 1.39V and Allcore 5,2GHz 1,29V. ASUS TUF Z690 PLUS D4 with 1404 BIOS. (VID after installing CPU und loaded defaults was 1,341V @ 5200MHz.
> 
> What do you think, voltages are okay? Binning good or bad? Boxed-CPU Batch V150.


Its a little bit hard to know if its a good cpu on just the stock settings. Try to lower the voltage as much as you can on 5.2 GHz all core and then report the load voltage (in HWInfo) during a stress test


----------



## Dancop

I think this KS is not the worst


----------



## DSHG87

Is that your 12900KS? What voltages did you have @ stock and out of the box?


----------



## david12900k

Dancop said:


> I think this KS is not the worst


What kind of cooling?


----------



## Nizzen

Dancop said:


> I think this KS is not the worst


Nice! Must be best of 400? 
Good to see you back in buisness 😁


----------



## fat4l

Dancop said:


> I think this KS is not the worst


Rly good mate . SP screen?


----------



## Electrosoft

Ichirou said:


> Just noticed that on the QVL lists for the MSI Edge and the ASUS Strix (DDR4), the max frequency that the Strix will support on 4x16 GB is 3,600 MHz.
> On the other hand, the QVL list for the MSI Edge claims to support _dozens_ of different 4x16 (64 GB) kits between 4,000 to 4,400 MHz (Single Rank).
> 
> Of course, these are obviously Gear 2 frequencies (with Gear 1 subject to IMC limitation), but perhaps there is a chance MSI is using T-Topology?
> Probably not, but at least we know that a failure to boot would not be due to the motherboard but the CPU IMC instead.
> Nobody here uses more than 32 GB of RAM on Z690, so it will be interesting to test and share my results to those who need high capacity for workstation purposes.
> 
> I'm just waiting on a 12900 with a binned DDR4 IMC to arrive in the mail, and then I'll let you all know. @bscool


I can't even get 4x8 past 3600 on my D4 Strix. I can do 2x8 4133 and 2x16 4000.

These are G.Skill B-die sticks.


----------



## Ichirou

Electrosoft said:


> I can't even get 4x8 past 3600 on my D4 Strix. I can do 2x8 4133 and 2x16 4000.
> 
> These are G.Skill B-die sticks.


Yeah, from what I can tell, the Strix is better with two DIMMs. It makes me wonder whether the Edge uses T-Topology now, due to all of the quad DIMM kits it supports (on Gear 2).

On the QVL list for the Strix, not a single Samsung die reaches high frequencies even on Gear 2. But there are tons that do on the Edge.
I found this out first hand when I tested my Samsung B-die on both the Strix and Edge. I could boot 5,000+ on the Edge, but it wouldn't budge past 4,300 or so on the Strix (Gear 2).


----------



## Dancop

fat4l said:


> Rly good mate . SP screen?


97/105/82
Custom water loop
And it's 1 out of 1 from the store! No binning this time


----------



## Raphie

Can someone explain to me why my stock 12900K doesn't get higher than 50x multiplier? 
Everything is on auto as I like it to downclock when not under full load, but it doesn't peak to 51x? just 50x max? Thoughts?


----------



## fat4l

Dancop said:


> 97/105/82
> Custom water loop
> And it's 1 out of 1 from the store! No binning this time


thats called proper luck 
I had to bin 8 to get sp 96/105/79.. but I know ppl binning many more to get worse cpus 

Anyway what was the 55x bios volt settings ? llc + volts


----------



## david12900k

fat4l said:


> thats called proper luck
> I had to bin 8 to get sp 96/95/79.. but I know ppl binning many more to get worse cpus
> 
> Anyway what was the 55x bios volt settings ? llc + volts


I read that higher sp chips are more likely to "leak" voltage. That is that some chips get super hot and use tons of power


----------



## Dancop

fat4l said:


> thats called proper luck
> I had to bin 8 to get sp 96/95/79.. but I know ppl binning many more to get worse cpus
> 
> Anyway what was the 55x bios volt settings ? llc + volts


1403/auto/1.290v


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

DSHG87 said:


> My 12900K*S* @ stock takes (IDLE) up tp 1.43V (Vcore, HWiNFO). Singlecore 5,5Ghz 1.39V and Allcore 5,2GHz 1,29V. ASUS TUF Z690 PLUS D4 with 1404 BIOS. (VID after installing CPU und loaded defaults was 1,341V @ 5200MHz.
> 
> What do you think, voltages are okay? Binning good or bad? Boxed-CPU Batch V150.


Run some cinebench. Start like 1.25V (load voltage, might need to set a bit higher to compensate for your droop) and test max speed. Good chips will do 5.4 easily. Decent chips will do 5.3. More average samples will do 5.2.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

david12900k said:


> I read that higher sp chips are more likely to "leak" voltage. That is that some chips get super hot and use tons of power


High SP numbers basically means the cores were binned by Intel and assigned lower VID tables. Leakage can vary from chip to chip and even core to core. But I've seen a few high SP rated chips that don't scale well with temps. It's all luck of the draw.


----------



## fat4l

DSHG87 said:


> My 12900K*S* @ stock takes (IDLE) up tp 1.43V (Vcore, HWiNFO). Singlecore 5,5Ghz 1.39V and Allcore 5,2GHz 1,29V. ASUS TUF Z690 PLUS D4 with 1404 BIOS. (VID after installing CPU und loaded defaults was 1,341V @ 5200MHz.
> 
> What do you think, voltages are okay? Binning good or bad? Boxed-CPU Batch V150.


This is my experience, on asus boards, Go with 1.31V bios with LLC6, that should give you 1.27V under load socket sense(not die sense), if you can pass both R20 and R23 at 5.3G all cores enabled then you have "ok" chip. If you fail this, then it's below average. However that should still be better than any average 12900K.

When I was testing, 5 chips had a limit of 1.27v load socket sense @5.3G, all those were SP p cores of 95-101. That 101 wasn't any better. I had one with 100 p core, that one could not even do 5.3G at all.

Don't get me wrong, 5.3G at 1.27G socket sense is not bad, but if you are looking for something special, then you gotta find something that will do it with 1.225V load socket sense.
You need to be looking at Vcore not VID.

All that above is for KS chips.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

fat4l said:


> This is my experience, on asus boards, Go with 1.31V bios with LLC6, that should give you 1.27V under load socket sense(not die sense), if you can pass both R20 and R23 at 5.3G all cores enabled then you have "ok" chip. If you fail this, then it's below average. However that should still be better than any average 12900K.
> 
> When I was testing, 5 chips had a limit of 1.27v load socket sense @5.3G, all those were SP p cores of 95-101. That 101 wasn't any better. I had one with 100 p core, that one could not even do 5.3G at all.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, 5.3G at 1.27G socket sense is not bad, but if you are looking for something special, then you gotta find something that will do it with 1.225V load socket sense.
> You need to be looking at Vcore not VID.
> 
> All that above is for KS chips.


Yeah Vid makes things really confusing for alot of people. At the end of the day what ultimately matters is actual voltage under load. My particular chip can do 5.3 GHz in Cinebench R20/23 at 1.16V set or 1.13V die sense (I'm not sure if my mobo does socket sense). I know my chip is pretty good. I'd guess around a 105 p core based on other chips ive seen. So someone can use that as a point of reference if they don't have access to their SP rating.


----------



## Wilco183

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Run some cinebench. Start like 1.25V (load voltage, might need to set a bit higher to compensate for your droop) and test max speed. Good chips will do 5.4 easily. Decent chips will do 5.3. More average samples will do 5.2.


And not to feel excluded, there's the bottom most tier like my 12900k that can't run 5.2 CB23 MT set to Asus AI Optimized with 167 cooler rating. SP 82 (91/65). Just venting...and very much enjoy reading about the good chips and their abilities here.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Wilco183 said:


> And not to feel excluded, there's the bottom most tier like my 12900k that can't run 5.2 CB23 MT set to Asus AI Optimized with 167 cooler rating. SP 82 (91/65). Just venting...and very much enjoy reading about the good chips and their abilities here.


I found an SP80 when I was binning 12900Ks. Man was that chip a turd. Yeah there are definitely some chips that are below average. 5.1 is basically doable on all 12900Ks for cinebench as long as you have good cooling. My condolences.


----------



## EEE-RAY

fat4l said:


> This is my experience, on asus boards, Go with 1.31V bios with LLC6, that should give you 1.27V under load socket sense(not die sense), if you can pass both R20 and R23 at 5.3G all cores enabled then you have "ok" chip. If you fail this, then it's below average. However that should still be better than any average 12900K.
> 
> When I was testing, 5 chips had a limit of 1.27v load socket sense @5.3G, all those were SP p cores of 95-101. That 101 wasn't any better. I had one with 100 p core, that one could not even do 5.3G at all.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, 5.3G at 1.27G socket sense is not bad, but if you are looking for something special, then you gotta find something that will do it with 1.225V load socket sense.
> You need to be looking at Vcore not VID.
> 
> All that above is for KS chips.


When you do this test in what is your power limit? Mine is set to 241 watts I am downclocking under load, which i am guessing invalidates the test.

Edit are E cores included in this test too or disabled?


----------



## david12900k

I found a video made back in december which had a TON of great info on Alder Lake V/F curves


----------



## Wilco183

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> I found an SP80 when I was binning 12900Ks. Man was that chip a turd. Yeah there are definitely some chips that are below average. 5.1 is basically doable on all 12900Ks for cinebench as long as you have good cooling. My condolences.


Well it meets Intel specs, but just don't see it having a place under the hood when doing my next project of building a custom loop. I need a better reason though to buy a KS for replacement. Don't suppose there's a way to throttle it out of its misery without harming other hardware?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

I lent my friend sp98 12900k and now I dont have apex mobo. How can I check if its still my chip? Sp 106/84.


----------



## splmann

Got my 12900KS 
SP91
P-Core SP 98
E-Core SP 77

Cinebench R23 @ 5.3Ghz Bios Vcore 1.3 LLC6 (socket sense)













This is the Vcore under Load running Cinebench R23


----------



## fat4l

EEE-RAY said:


> When you do this test in what is your power limit? Mine is set to 241 watts I am downclocking under load, which i am guessing invalidates the test.
> 
> Edit are E cores included in this test too or disabled?


Power limits all removed, so its like 4096W or something like that.

E cores enabled.


----------



## fat4l

splmann said:


> Got my 12900KS
> SP91
> P-Core SP 98
> E-Core SP 77
> 
> Cinebench R23 @ 5.3Ghz Bios Vcore 1.3 LLC6 (socket sense)
> 
> View attachment 2556280
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the Vcore under Load running Cinebench R23
> View attachment 2556281


Thats VID, Vcore is located further down the bottom 

Should look like that:









It correlates exactly with what I tested, P core SP of about 95-100(KS chip) with 1.30-1.31 Bios LLC6(Asus) should give you a pass in R20/R23 @ 5.3G and should be about 1.27V socket sense.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

To be honest I expected a bit higher. Just goes to show ya SP number is only part of the equation. Can run 5.5 w/ e cores at 4.4 on R20 easy enough.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> To be honest I expected a bit higher. Just goes to show ya SP number is only part of the equation. Can run 5.5 w/ e cores at 4.4 on R20 easy enough.
> View attachment 2556311








david12900k said:


> I wish i could push these. It seems that when I try to set additional voltage on the E-cores, it appears the voltage I set there does not do anything. I set the e cores to 1.45 and it wasnt any more stable than before. IM thinking that the voltage the E-cores get is actually the voltage I set in the v/f curve and the additional voltage settings to just the e cores only work if the voltage set there is less than the voltage of the P cores. SO to run 4.4 on E cores, I would have to pump up the voltage of the p cores also


So your chip is a bit better than mine by SP rating. I'm a 96 103/82. You can't get 5.5 to run or 4.4 to run on your ecores? Seems like you should be able to get it to run there! Try running a fixed voltage and see how it responds I wonder if your vid table OC isn't hampering ur performance to an extent?


----------



## david12900k

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> So your chip is a bit better than mine by SP rating. I'm a 96 103/82. You can't get 5.5 to run or 4.4 to run on your ecores? Seems like you should be able to get it to run there! Try running a fixed voltage and see how it responds I wonder if your vid table OC isn't hampering ur performance to an extent?


After watching that video last night I was thinking the same thing


----------



## Aurosonic

Done with my mediocre SP91 12900k. Used Adaptive + By Core + V/F Curve + OCTVB for my 24/7. System solid stable and ready for daily use.
Happy with single core perfomance especially.

*MB:* Asus Apex Z690 (11.2021) Bios 1403

*CPU:* Intel i9 12900k (delided, polished)

57-57-56-56-55-55-54-54 AVX Offset to 5300

*DDR5:* 2x16 Hynix OEM 4800 C40 @ 6400 C28-38-38-56 1T


----------



## dragn09

Aurosonic said:


> Done with my mediocre SP91 12900k. Used Adaptive + By Core + V/F Curve + OCTVB for my 24/7. System solid stable and ready for daily use.
> Happy with single core perfomance especially.
> 
> *MB:* Asus Apex Z690 (11.2021) Bios 1403
> 
> *CPU:* Intel i9 12900k (delided, polished)
> 
> 57-57-56-56-55-55-54-54 AVX Offset to 5300
> 
> *DDR5:* 2x16 Hynix OEM 4800 C40 @ 6400 C28-38-38-56 1T
> 
> View attachment 2556329


what are your load voltages for allcore and single?


----------



## Aurosonic

dragn09 said:


> what are your load voltages for allcore and single?


I'm using LLC3

AVX Load between ~1.217-1.243 , P-cores jumps between 5200-5300 (sometimes one signle core at 5400) | single core load at 5700 ~ 1.558-1.563 | Non AVX Load at 5400 ~ 1.320


----------



## fat4l

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> To be honest I expected a bit higher. Just goes to show ya SP number is only part of the equation. Can run 5.5 w/ e cores at 4.4 on R20 easy enough.
> View attachment 2556311


Another nice one. What is the settings then?voltage limits llc? And how do you cool it?


----------



## fat4l

Double post


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

fat4l said:


> Another nice one. What is the settings then?voltage limits llc? And how do you cool it?


5.5 GHz p core. 4.4 GHz E cores. 1.35V. On a big custom loop.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> To be honest I expected a bit higher. Just goes to show ya SP number is only part of the equation. Can run 5.5 w/ e cores at 4.4 on R20 easy enough.
> View attachment 2556311


So you still fetched an ASUS just for the SP score...
Now enjoy taking a loss reselling the board back out =\


----------



## fat4l

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> 5.5 GHz p core. 4.4 GHz E cores. 1.35V. On a big custom loop.


LLC ? or is 1.35 load voltage ? if so is that socker or die sense ?


I'm still tempted to bin more cpus  I've got mine 96/105/79 but still..... Maybe ...but maybe.....theres something waiting from 105-110 P core range


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ichirou said:


> So you still fetched an ASUS just for the SP score...
> Now enjoy taking a loss reselling the board back out =\


No I wanted a ddr4 board anyways. Plus I bought it used for a good deal. And once I'm done with it I'll put one of my trash tier 12900Ks on it and upgrade my plex server.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

fat4l said:


> LLC ? or is 1.35 load voltage ? if so is that socker or die sense ?


Llc -75%. Load Voltage is about 1.325V die sense.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> No I wanted a ddr4 board anyways. Plus I bought it used for a good deal. And once I'm done with it I'll put one of my trash tier 12900Ks on it and upgrade my plex server.


Ah, so that's not a DDR5 board. I see.
How many 12900s did you bin to test? Might want to try to resell them now while they still have value.
I binned some myself, but I never kept more than one on the side. Don't want too many sitting around and losing value.

On a side note, strangely enough, it feels like the 12900KS is either really good... or really bad. And not really in between. Odd.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ichirou said:


> Ah, so that's not a DDR5 board. I see.
> How many 12900s did you bin to test? Might want to try to resell them now while they still have value.
> I binned some myself, but I never kept more than one on the side. Don't want too many sitting around and losing value.


A friend and I got 10 chips between the two of us. But I was waiting for the Dark board to launch and he had to RMA his APEX like 4 times before getting steeped in a work crisis and I ended up purchasing a new house and having to remodel. So neither of us have been particularly active. I think after today he is off for the next 2 weeks so he will likely start benching much more actively. I'm probably 2 weeks out from finishing up with the remodel and will hopefully have more time after we're done. He has most of the chips right now.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> A friend and I got 10 chips between the two of us. But I was waiting for the Dark board to launch and he had to RMA his APEX like 4 times before getting steeped in a work crisis and I ended up purchasing a new house and having to remodel. So neither of us have been particularly active. I think after today he is off for the next 2 weeks so he will likely start benching much more actively. I'm probably 2 weeks out from finishing up with the remodel and will hopefully have more time after we're done. He has most of the chips right now.


Well you've scored a good chip anyway, so it's really a matter of helping your friend get a good one as well.
And then the rest could be sold brand new unopened, I suppose. Or refunded if store policy allows.


----------



## fat4l

We need to bin more guys  I feel it... theres SP 110P hiding somewhere


----------



## Ichirou

fat4l said:


> We need to bin more guys  I feel it... theres SP 110P hiding somewhere


It seems silly how people are spending hundreds more $$$ just to bin a chip that can run an extra 100-200 MHz daily at similar voltages...
I can understand that if IMC quality scales linearly, but that's not the case here.

12900KS still remains ridiculously overpriced for what it offers: a slightly better lottery.


----------



## Electrosoft

Ichirou said:


> It seems silly how people are spending hundreds more $$$ just to bin a chip that can run an extra 100-200 MHz daily at similar voltages...
> I can understand that if IMC quality scales linearly, but that's not the case here.
> 
> 12900KS still remains ridiculously overpriced for what it offers: a slightly better lottery.


Law of diminishing returns is in full effect but for those that enjoy the chase and extracting everything as much as possible regardless of cost the heart wants what the heart wants.....


----------



## Nizzen

Electrosoft said:


> Law of diminishing returns is in full effect but for those that enjoy the chase and extracting everything as much as possible regardless of cost the heart wants what the heart wants.....


When we start posting in this forum, we already know we are pushing "Law of diminishing returns"

The pursiut of performance 🤓🤙

That is why we like this place


----------



## J_Lab4645

Aurosonic said:


> Done with my mediocre SP91 12900k. Used Adaptive + By Core + V/F Curve + OCTVB for my 24/7. System solid stable and ready for daily use.
> Happy with single core perfomance especially.
> 
> *MB:* Asus Apex Z690 (11.2021) Bios 1403
> 
> *CPU:* Intel i9 12900k (delided, polished)
> 
> 57-57-56-56-55-55-54-54 AVX Offset to 5300
> 
> *DDR5:* 2x16 Hynix OEM 4800 C40 @ 6400 C28-38-38-56 1T
> 
> View attachment 2556329



1. Somebody knows what they're doing
2. You have an excellent cooling setup
3. Impressive as hell.......yes take a bow.


----------



## Bilco

Is that ASUS tool I see in some of the screenshots able to change the vcore on the fly in windows reliably? I'm drooling at the though of the time I would save avoiding the reboot into bios every 0.01v increment.


----------



## Ichirou

Bilco said:


> Is that ASUS tool I see in some of the screenshots able to change the vcore on the fly in windows reliably? I'm drooling at the though of the time I would save avoiding the reboot into bios every 0.01v increment.


Yeah, ASUS Turbo VCore works.


----------



## Nizzen

Ichirou said:


> Yeah, ASUS Turbo VCore works.


We have adroid app too, for tweaking from the phone on Apex  🤟


----------



## Bilco

Ichirou said:


> Yeah, ASUS Turbo VCore works.


Good to know, going to grab that now. I was using it to change some settings on launch day, but i remember reading some settings not sticking or being displayed correctly...

Speaking of settings not sticking, I am setting the vcore to 1.3v//1.28v with LLC7 but underload the CPU seems to be ignoring it and is still pulling 1.32v. Am I missing a setting here?

Edit: Nvm figured it out, was looking at VID instead of vcore, going to grab another coffee


----------



## fat4l

Ichirou said:


> Yeah, ASUS Turbo VCore works.


Does this actually work on Strix too ? Never tried  

btw ..why is "post" or ..before the post so slow ? On my old Z97, when I turned the system on, it was sooooo quick. Now with this platform, I turn it on, i wait....wait..wait....then the post appears and then windows starts to load. But that time before monitor turns on.....beforethe post ...takes ages ... Do we know why and how to speed it up ?


----------



## Falkentyne

Ichirou said:


> It seems silly how people are spending hundreds more $$$ just to bin a chip that can run an extra 100-200 MHz daily at similar voltages...
> I can understand that if IMC quality scales linearly, but that's not the case here.
> 
> 12900KS still remains ridiculously overpriced for what it offers: a slightly better lottery.


That's why I'm playing it smart and waiting for Raptor Lake.
No point paying $800 for 200 more mhz and no AVX512 when I can pay maybe $700 for 200 more mhz and double the E cores and no AVX512.


----------



## Ichirou

fat4l said:


> Does this actually work on Strix too ? Never tried
> 
> btw ..why is "post" or ..before the post so slow ? On my old Z97, when I turned the system on, it was sooooo quick. Now with this platform, I turn it on, i wait....wait..wait....then the post appears and then windows starts to load. But that time before monitor turns on.....beforethe post ...takes ages ... Do we know why and how to speed it up ?


Yes. I used it myself on the Strix.

POST speeds depend on training algorithm. That's one of the reasons why I prefer the Edge much more than the Strix; it sometimes trains insanely fast.
It seems like the BIOS can easily figure out whether or not some settings will boot. it doesn't try to throw you in for a long loop.
The only time you get stuck on a black screen is if some timing is _too_ tight and the RAM full on freezes the BIOS, but that's not really the board's fault.


----------



## fat4l

Ichirou said:


> Yes. I used it myself on the Strix.
> 
> POST speeds depend on training algorithm. That's one of the reasons why I prefer the Edge much more than the Strix; it sometimes trains insanely fast.
> It seems like the BIOS can easily figure out whether or not some settings will boot. it doesn't try to throw you in for a long loop.
> The only time you get stuck on a black screen is if some timing is _too_ tight and the RAM full on freezes the BIOS, but that's not really the board's fault.


i also saw theres PPL voltage in that Asus turbo V core. Do we change it ? I remember it helped to stabilize high clocks on older platforms.


----------



## Ichirou

fat4l said:


> i also saw theres PPL voltage in that Asus turbo V core. Do we change it ? I remember it helped to stabilize high clocks on older platforms.


Don't think I've heard of anyone here fiddling around with anything but the common voltages.


----------



## Bilco

Able to stably run R23 for 10min+ clocked at 5.2P/4.0E on this SP89(95P-core) 12900k with the following settings:
LLC7 
vbois 1.27
load vcore 1.217 
Temp spread on P-cores: 75-82C, only one of those cores was at 75, the rest were 79-82C.

5.3 wouldnt happen with ecores enabled unless they were downclocked... I didnt find the lower limit here because I didn't see the value in have them off or set that low.
tried LLC7, 5.3P/4.0E with the following:
1.36 vcore - crashed instantly
1.38 vcore - crashed after a bit
1.4v vcore - ran, but tempts hit 90-100C and it was downclocking most cores to 5.2-5.1 with 1-2 cores sputtering around 5.3.

Doesn't look like this chip will realistically run 5.3, but seems pretty decent at 5.2? Think it's worth the performance and time to open this 12900KS sitting on my desk?


----------



## Ichirou

Bilco said:


> Able to stably run R23 for 10min+ clocked at 5.2P/4.0E on this SP89(95P-core) 12900k with the following settings:
> LLC7
> vbois 1.27
> load vcore 1.217
> Temp spread on P-cores: 75-82C, only one of those cores was at 75, the rest were 79-82C.
> 
> 5.3 wouldnt happen with ecores enabled unless they were downclocked... I didnt find the lower limit here because I didn't see the value in have them off or set that low.
> tried LLC7, 5.3P/4.0E with the following:
> 1.36 vcore - crashed instantly
> 1.38 vcore - crashed after a bit
> 1.4v vcore - ran, but tempts hit 90-100C and it was downclocking most cores to 5.2-5.1 with 1-2 cores sputtering around 5.3.
> 
> Doesn't look like this chip will realistically run 5.3, but seems pretty decent at 5.2? Think it's worth the performance and time to open this 12900KS sitting on my desk?


Depends entirely on if you really need that 5.3-5.4 GHz. (Any further is just benchmarking territory and not realistic.)
But voiding a return policy or potentially reducing its resale value just for an extra 100-200 MHz is a pretty poor gamble.

It's entirely your call.


----------



## fat4l

Bilco said:


> Able to stably run R23 for 10min+ clocked at 5.2P/4.0E on this SP89(95P-core) 12900k with the following settings:
> LLC7
> vbois 1.27
> load vcore 1.217
> Temp spread on P-cores: 75-82C, only one of those cores was at 75, the rest were 79-82C.
> 
> 5.3 wouldnt happen with ecores enabled unless they were downclocked... I didnt find the lower limit here because I didn't see the value in have them off or set that low.
> tried LLC7, 5.3P/4.0E with the following:
> 1.36 vcore - crashed instantly
> 1.38 vcore - crashed after a bit
> 1.4v vcore - ran, but tempts hit 90-100C and it was downclocking most cores to 5.2-5.1 with 1-2 cores sputtering around 5.3.
> 
> Doesn't look like this chip will realistically run 5.3, but seems pretty decent at 5.2? Think it's worth the performance and time to open this 12900KS sitting on my desk?


"Most" KS chips should be 5.3G capable but of course you may have a dud as well. Also you can have a golden chip .... Anything over 105 P core I will buy 

PS the worst KS I've seen is probably 84/88P/76E


----------



## david12900k

So maybe one of you knows. I am able to run Cinebench R23 for 3x30 minute runs with 54 P cores and 43 E cores with ring at 43 at 1.208v under load. This is my daily setup and im running LLC 4. I have started getting random crashes in game and I cant narrow down what the issue is. i tried upping the voltage quite a few times, but i still get random crashes. I cant figure it out. Has anyone had issues with this? Right now im testing LLC 7 to see if its a voltage stability issue


----------



## fat4l

I would try to oc only the p cores, leave everything as was before andgo from there, then add e cores oc if all is ok, then cache. Then if you know what that is, test only that, that means if its the cache, then lower P to 53 and E to 42 to make that is not affecting it and check ingame.


----------



## sugi0lover

david12900k said:


> So maybe one of you knows. I am able to run Cinebench R23 for 3x30 minute runs with 54 P cores and 43 E cores with ring at 43 at 1.208v under load. This is my daily setup and im running LLC 4. I have started getting random crashes in game and I cant narrow down what the issue is. i tried upping the voltage quite a few times, but i still get random crashes. I cant figure it out. Has anyone had issues with this? Right now im testing LLC 7 to see if its a voltage stability issue


Have you tried this?
[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


----------



## david12900k

sugi0lover said:


> Have you tried this?
> [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


Very interesting. I did not know about this. I will give it a try


----------



## Ichirou

david12900k said:


> So maybe one of you knows. I am able to run Cinebench R23 for 3x30 minute runs with 54 P cores and 43 E cores with ring at 43 at 1.208v under load. This is my daily setup and im running LLC 4. I have started getting random crashes in game and I cant narrow down what the issue is. i tried upping the voltage quite a few times, but i still get random crashes. I cant figure it out. Has anyone had issues with this? Right now im testing LLC 7 to see if its a voltage stability issue


Need to isolate the game as a factor (try multiple games) and also be clear as to what kind of crashes they are (to desktop, or BSOD, or black screen).
You'll also need to monitor temps, since anything over 85C for any lengthy period of time is not guaranteed to be stable.

Also, if the RAM's overclocked in any way with an air cooled GPU, that can be grounds for issues with the GPU throwing additional heat on the RAM in game.
In the meanwhile, try raising VCCSA; that tends to cure a lot of issues, especially if your RAM is overclocked.


----------



## david12900k

Ichirou said:


> Need to isolate the game as a factor (try multiple games) and also be clear as to what kind of crashes they are (to desktop, or BSOD, or black screen).
> You'll also need to monitor temps, since anything over 85C for any lengthy period of time is not guaranteed to be stable.
> 
> Also, if the RAM's overclocked in any way with an air cooled GPU, that can be grounds for issues with the GPU throwing additional heat on the RAM in game.
> In the meanwhile, try raising VCCSA; that tends to cure a lot of issues, especially if your RAM is overclocked.


So far its Overwatch and World of Tanks. Crashed every 1-2 games pretty consistently. They were all BSOD's. Temps are fine, CPU temps never go above 50c and GPU never goes above 55c (water cooled). RAM has been stable when running XMP with stock CPU and with my old 12900k. So far (2 hours) of using 300 Mhz VRM Switching Frequency as mentioned in the above comment and still no crashes. Will test through tonight and hopefully this solves my issues. The only thing I changed in my bios was the switching frequency


----------



## centvalny

Same batch as my sp91

















Imc is decent not special


----------



## david12900k

centvalny said:


> Same batch as my sp91
> View attachment 2556438
> 
> View attachment 2556439
> 
> 
> Imc is decent not special
> View attachment 2556440


really nice chip? is it leaky with voltage?


----------



## centvalny

david12900k said:


> really nice chip? is it leaky with voltage?


Im not sure. How to test it?


----------



## david12900k

centvalny said:


> Im not sure. How to test it?


You have the same P-Core sp that i do (105). Mine does 1.208v under load for 5.4 Ghz on the P-Cores. Can you run 5.5 Ghz without thermal throttling?


----------



## centvalny

david12900k said:


> You have the same P-Core sp that i do (105). Mine does 1.208v under load for 5.4 Ghz on the P-Cores. Can you run 5.5 Ghz without thermal throttling?


Will do. This one gotta go cold next.


----------



## Ichirou

david12900k said:


> So far its Overwatch and World of Tanks. Crashed every 1-2 games pretty consistently. They were all BSOD's. Temps are fine, CPU temps never go above 50c and GPU never goes above 55c (water cooled). RAM has been stable when running XMP with stock CPU and with my old 12900k. So far (2 hours) of using 300 Mhz VRM Switching Frequency as mentioned in the above comment and still no crashes. Will test through tonight and hopefully this solves my issues. The only thing I changed in my bios was the switching frequency


What were the actual BSOD error codes?


----------



## david12900k

So still no crashes 4 hours later, i think this was the solution. I wonder if this was the issue with my DRAM OC?


----------



## Ichirou

david12900k said:


> So still no crashes 4 hours later, i think this was the solution. I wonder if this was the issue with my DRAM OC?


If you give me the BSOD error codes, I'd be able to tell you.
Use BlueScreenView/WhoCrashed to see history


----------



## Ketku-

Hello guys! 
I am new overclocking user with 12900K+Apex+6400CL32 G.Skill

So are what are best programs test OC stress/stable in these day with CPU AlderLake?


----------



## Ichirou

Ketku- said:


> Hello guys!
> I am new overclocking user with 12900K+Apex+6400CL32 G.Skill
> 
> So are what are best programs test OC stress/stable in these day with CPU AlderLake?


Everyone tests something different. For me, I've never had stability issues after running the CPU through Intel's Processor Diagnostic Tool for a few loops coupled with some extreme 3DMark tests. y-cruncher is good for error testing, and TM5 if you memory overclock.

Rest is just real world testing in the applications or games you use or play.


----------



## ManniX-ITA

BenchMaestro - CPU & GPU benchmarking and Tools Utility


Here's my very own benching and tools utility, hope you enjoy! Will be a constant Work in Progress of course :p https://github.com/mann1x/BenchMaestro Since it's made by someone that runs lots of benchmarks, there are some neat features: ConfigTag: name your configuration, will be part of the...




www.overclock.net





I'd love to see some results from Alder Lake guys, it's fully supported now 

You can post your results here:








BenchMaestro - Post your results


Here's the thread to share your results. Be sure to compare scores only if you are using the same runtime!




www.overclock.net







Ketku- said:


> So are what are best programs test OC stress/stable in these day with CPU AlderLake?


Best overall is y-cruncher:


y-cruncher - A Multi-Threaded Pi Program



Select 1 component stress tester, 7 enable all tests, 0 start stress-testing

The only other useful stress tester is the xmr-stak-rx monero miner.
It can stress the ring and memory even better than y-cruncher.
Can detect instabilities than can slip through y-cruncher.

You can use BenchMaestro and run it with a runtime over 900 seconds.

But the ultimate way to stress with xmr-stak-rx is to setup your own account and mining for real (even with a fake wallet address).
The benchmark mode is a little less heavier than the real workload.
If you can pass at least 15 minutes it's a good validation, better over 1 hour.


----------



## Raphie

Would like to add Karhu Ram test for at least 10.000% coverage, even better 12h, seen Karhu crap out where everything else passed.


----------



## fat4l

centvalny said:


> Same batch as my sp91
> View attachment 2556438
> 
> View attachment 2556439
> 
> 
> Imc is decent not special
> View attachment 2556440


another great chip I guess  i wanna see 105+ tho and buy it then


----------



## centvalny

fat4l said:


> another great chip I guess  i wanna see 105+ tho and buy it then


Good sp but imc just ok


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

centvalny said:


> Good sp but imc just ok


How can you tell? What process do you bin IMC with?


----------



## centvalny

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> How can you tell? What process do you bin IMC with?


My sp91 valid 8270 single channel and 7600 quad air. This one struggling even for 7800 but 7466 quad is doable.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

david12900k said:


> So still no crashes 4 hours later, i think this was the solution. I wonder if this was the issue with my DRAM OC?


U need to pass linx to say your oc is stable.


----------



## DSHG87

fat4l said:


> This is my experience, on asus boards, Go with 1.31V bios with LLC6, that should give you 1.27V under load socket sense(not die sense), if you can pass both R20 and R23 at 5.3G all cores enabled then you have "ok" chip. If you fail this, then it's below average. However that should still be better than any average 12900K.
> 
> When I was testing, 5 chips had a limit of 1.27v load socket sense @5.3G, all those were SP p cores of 95-101. That 101 wasn't any better. I had one with 100 p core, that one could not even do 5.3G at all.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, 5.3G at 1.27G socket sense is not bad, but if you are looking for something special, then you gotta find something that will do it with 1.225V load socket sense.
> You need to be looking at Vcore not VID.
> 
> All that above is for KS chips.


So all I need to do ist Load optimized defaults in BIOS, remove all Limits and set P-cores to 53x and Vcore to 1.31V LL6? Rest stock?


----------



## Ichirou

centvalny said:


> My sp91 valid 8270 single channel and 7600 quad air. This one struggling even for 7800 but 7466 quad is doable.


What board and RAM do you use? It seems most people get stuck at 7000 MHz at best.


----------



## centvalny

Ichirou said:


> What board and RAM do you use? It seems most people get stuck at 7000 MHz at best.


Apex both ram slots did 8k


----------



## Ichirou

centvalny said:


> Apex both ram slots did 8k


Definitely sounds like you hit the lottery then. I haven't heard of anyone else here getting even remotely close to that.
What RAM kit do you have?


----------



## Gadfly

Ichirou said:


> Definitely sounds like you hit the lottery then. I haven't heard of anyone else here getting even remotely close to that.
> What RAM kit do you have?


my 11/2021 apex one slot will run 7600, and the other 6400… :/


----------



## fat4l

DSHG87 said:


> So all I need to do ist Load optimized defaults in BIOS, remove all Limits and set P-cores to 53x and Vcore to 1.31V LL6? Rest stock?


yes, you can also set VRM switching frequency to 300. Thats it


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> U need to pass linx to say your oc is stable.


No.
There is no stable, just degree of stable in given enviroment. Eviroment depends on temperature, load etc....


----------



## J_Lab4645

I know most of you here are binning the KS to find "the one" for max All-core OC but I was interested to see how these chips compared to the regular K. Since BB offers a 30 day full refund policy, I thought what the hey, why not buy a few and see what's up. It won't cost me anything but time spent. After testing 3 KS's, these chips are so inconsistent that I would recommend binning for every damn potential purchaser; not just Overclockers. First off- just running Asus default (Auto) everything in bios sets the KS to these defaults. P52 x8, E40 x8, LLC=3, DC 1.1, AC .60. .....With a full custom loop, All chips race to the 90's C or higher with these 'default' settings. I can't imagine running these 'default' settings on air. I mean....***!? So using LLC3, DC 1.1, AC .40 drops temps 10C. At least now we're in the low 80's max. Ran CB_R23 for 30 minutes on each chip. All Pass. Now offset VF Pt #5 (5200mhz) until CB crashes. Chip #1, SP87, P95, E72. CB crash at (-.60mv) offset. Chip#2, SP90, P96, E78. CB crash at (-90mv) offset. Chip #3, SP84, P91, E70. Crash at (-70mv) offset. Now lets run some AVX, AVX2 and see whats up. Chip #2 and Chip #3 both passed all AVX/AVX2 hammering at a minimum (-50mv) offset. Chip #1 failed at any offset but finally passed AVX/AVX2 at (no offset). Temps were unacceptable so Chip #1 going back for Refund. Next lets try max OC for 2 "best" cores. Chip #3- setting two best cores to anything above x55 (after setting appropriate Adaptive voltage) skyrockets temps on Pcores to 100C. Chip #2- set 2 best cores to x57 at 1.45 Adpt V and we're dancing! Two best cores don't go over 68C at x57! ......WT flying F is going on!? This is a 30C difference in temp on OC'ing the 2 best cores. I'll take it! So as what was said previously, take SP ratings with a grain of salt. You really have to test every damn chip for what you are looking for and want to achieve. I want to finalize this with your RAM. Chip #1 and #3 just ran no problem whatsoever with my 'default' XMPI settings on my MB. (Gskill F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5K) Ran MemTest5 and Karhu for 3 hours and nada. But Chip #2 was flying out memory errors with the same settings. I spent 5 hours dialing in SA voltage on that particular chip to achieve stability. Chip #2 (the best performer) absolutely loves 1.3v SA and nothing else! Riddle me that one? Here's chip#2 CB_R23 results @ Pcores x52, Ecores x40, (2 boosting to x57). All KS's require binning!!! They are not created equal at all. One last final edit- I will say an average KS is better than a really good K. I currently have a Sp89, P100,E70 K. Running my K at P52,E40 I absolutely cannot run AVX/AVX2 without high temps and/or crash. Average KS will run this no problemo.


----------



## fat4l

J_Lab4645 said:


> I know most of you here are binning the KS to find "the one" for max All-core OC but I was interested to see how these chips compared to the regular K. Since BB offers a 30 day full refund policy, I thought what the hey, why not buy a few and see what's up. It won't cost me anything but time spent. After testing 3 KS's, these chips are so inconsistent that I would recommend binning for every damn potential purchaser; not just Overclockers. First off- just running Asus default (Auto) everything in bios sets the KS to these defaults. P52 x8, E40 x8, LLC=3, DC 1.1, AC .60. .....With a full custom loop, All chips race to the 90's C or higher with these 'default' settings. I can't imagine running these 'default' settings on air. I mean....***!? So using LLC3, DC 1.1, AC .40 drops temps 10C. At least now we're in the low 80's max. Ran CB_R23 for 30 minutes on each chip. All Pass. Now offset VF Pt #5 (5200mhz) until CB crashes. Chip #1, SP87, P95, E72. CB crash at (-.60mv) offset. Chip#2, SP90, P96, E78. CB crash at (-90mv) offset. Chip #3, SP84, P91, E70. Crash at (-70mv) offset. Now lets run some AVX, AVX2 and see whats up. Chip #2 and Chip #3 both passed all AVX/AVX2 hammering at a minimum (-50mv) offset. Chip #1 failed at any offset but finally passed AVX/AVX2 at (no offset). Temps were unacceptable so Chip #1 going back for Refund. Next lets try max OC for 2 "best" cores. Chip #3- setting two best cores to anything above x55 (after setting appropriate Adaptive voltage) skyrockets temps on Pcores to 100C. Chip #2- set 2 best cores to x57 at 1.45 Adpt V and we're dancing! Two best cores don't go over 68C at x57! ......WT flying F is going on!? This is a 30C difference in temp on OC'ing the 2 best cores. I'll take it! So as what was said previously, take SP ratings with a grain of salt. You really have to test every damn chip for what you are looking for and want to achieve. I want to finalize this with your RAM. Chip #1 and #3 just ran no problem whatsoever with my 'default' XMPI settings on my MB. (Gskill F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5K) Ran MemTest5 and Karhu for 3 hours and nada. But Chip #2 was flying out memory errors with the same settings. I spent 5 hours dialing in SA voltage on that particular chip to achieve stability. Chip #2 (the best performer) absolutely loves 1.3v SA and nothing else! Riddle me that one? Here's chip#2 CB_R23 results @ Pcores x52, Ecores x40, (2 boosting to x57). All KS's require binning!!! They are not created equal at all.
> View attachment 2556622


Very true sir. There's still a big difference between a dud KS and a king KS


----------



## Gadfly

fat4l said:


> "Most" KS chips should be 5.3G capable but of course you may have a dud as well. Also you can have a golden chip .... Anything over 105 P core I will buy
> 
> PS the worst KS I've seen is probably 84/88P/76E


that was my KS, lol


----------



## Dancop

[email protected] load 19 degrees water. 
Coretemp shows the previous values with 1.38+v
It had 92 degrees max


----------



## jomama22

J_Lab4645 said:


> I know most of you here are binning the KS to find "the one" for max All-core OC but I was interested to see how these chips compared to the regular K. Since BB offers a 30 day full refund policy, I thought what the hey, why not buy a few and see what's up. It won't cost me anything but time spent. After testing 3 KS's, these chips are so inconsistent that I would recommend binning for every damn potential purchaser; not just Overclockers. First off- just running Asus default (Auto) everything in bios sets the KS to these defaults. P52 x8, E40 x8, LLC=3, DC 1.1, AC .60. .....With a full custom loop, All chips race to the 90's C or higher with these 'default' settings. I can't imagine running these 'default' settings on air. I mean....***!? So using LLC3, DC 1.1, AC .40 drops temps 10C. At least now we're in the low 80's max. Ran CB_R23 for 30 minutes on each chip. All Pass. Now offset VF Pt #5 (5200mhz) until CB crashes. Chip #1, SP87, P95, E72. CB crash at (-.60mv) offset. Chip#2, SP90, P96, E78. CB crash at (-90mv) offset. Chip #3, SP84, P91, E70. Crash at (-70mv) offset. Now lets run some AVX, AVX2 and see whats up. Chip #2 and Chip #3 both passed all AVX/AVX2 hammering at a minimum (-50mv) offset. Chip #1 failed at any offset but finally passed AVX/AVX2 at (no offset). Temps were unacceptable so Chip #1 going back for Refund. Next lets try max OC for 2 "best" cores. Chip #3- setting two best cores to anything above x55 (after setting appropriate Adaptive voltage) skyrockets temps on Pcores to 100C. Chip #2- set 2 best cores to x57 at 1.45 Adpt V and we're dancing! Two best cores don't go over 68C at x57! ......WT flying F is going on!? This is a 30C difference in temp on OC'ing the 2 best cores. I'll take it! So as what was said previously, take SP ratings with a grain of salt. You really have to test every damn chip for what you are looking for and want to achieve. I want to finalize this with your RAM. Chip #1 and #3 just ran no problem whatsoever with my 'default' XMPI settings on my MB. (Gskill F5-6000U3636E16GX2-TZ5K) Ran MemTest5 and Karhu for 3 hours and nada. But Chip #2 was flying out memory errors with the same settings. I spent 5 hours dialing in SA voltage on that particular chip to achieve stability. Chip #2 (the best performer) absolutely loves 1.3v SA and nothing else! Riddle me that one? Here's chip#2 CB_R23 results @ Pcores x52, Ecores x40, (2 boosting to x57). All KS's require binning!!! They are not created equal at all. One last final edit- I will say an average KS is better than a really good K. I currently have a Sp89, P100,E70 K. Running my K at P52,E40 I absolutely cannot run AVX/AVX2 without high temps and/or crash. Average KS will run this no problemo.
> View attachment 2556622


Yeah, got to test them. Currently testing an sp90/97/76 ks atm. Does 5.5 @ 1.32v die sense, hottest core hits 87, package 85 or so, in r23. Only 2 cores go into the 80s, 4 in the 70's and 2 stay in the upper 60s. 

It's quite an odd chip in that it pulls substantially less power than my kf at the same voltage: p-cores only, [email protected] 1.269 load voltage on the KF =~315w KS 5.4 @ 1.269v(it will go lower but just for comparison) =~ 230w.

Have one more to test so we'll see how that goes, but this is a really good chip in the limited time I've messed with it. SP really doesn't mean much with these.


----------



## david12900k

Just did a 31457 point run on Cinebench R23 with 55 P cores and 43 e cores. I think i may be able to pull off a stable 55 oc after all. I will still need a lot of work to get it stable though
Was able to have it go 5 runs in a row without crash, crash on 6th

I was pretty unstable at 1.288 under load. At 1.305, I'm in the 90's which I think is also causing instability. It might be a very fine line to get stability between these. Perhaps impossible


----------



## Electrosoft

12900ks
SP94
P102
E79
X205L654
Asus Strix D4
1403 BIOS
Best Buy launch day first wave


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Electrosoft said:


> 12900ks
> SP94
> P102
> E79
> X205L654
> Asus Strix D4
> 1403 BIOS
> Best Buy launch day first wave
> 
> View attachment 2556712


Damn. That is quite the consistency across your Vid table!


----------



## Ichirou

jomama22 said:


> Yeah, got to test them. Currently testing an sp90/97/76 ks atm. Does 5.5 @ 1.32v die sense, hottest core hits 87, package 85 or so, in r23. Only 2 cores go into the 80s, 4 in the 70's and 2 stay in the upper 60s.
> 
> It's quite an odd chip in that it pulls substantially less power than my kf at the same voltage: p-cores only, [email protected] 1.269 load voltage on the KF =~315w KS 5.4 @ 1.269v(it will go lower but just for comparison) =~ 230w.
> 
> Have one more to test so we'll see how that goes, but this is a really good chip in the limited time I've messed with it. SP really doesn't mean much with these.


The V/F curves and VIDs were probably rush estimated by Intel and not really accurately calculated.


----------



## fat4l

Dancop said:


> [email protected] load 19 degrees water.
> Coretemp shows the previous values with 1.38+v
> It had 92 degrees max


you need to get Hailea going


----------



## Dancop

fat4l said:


> you need to get Hailea going


Ln2 next week maybe


----------



## Mappi75

12900KS SP88 here, runs in CB23 at max. 89 degrees

now i'am running this cpu with a CPU Core Voltage offset: -0,15500v
wondering that this high value is possible...

this will end in a max. temp of 69 degrees!
(need more testing if its 1000% stable).

This temp is like my 12700K (SP65 at default) - before which was max. 68 degrees in CB23.


----------



## sugi0lover

I got the new P-core SP 115 12900K and oced at water temp 26C (Summer is coming)
I usually turn e-cores off but wanted to test what this SP103 12900K can do with everything on.

[OC setup - Cine23 10 Min pass]
○ CPU : 12900K (SP103, P115, E79) / all cores (P 5.5Ghz , E 4.3Ghz, Cache 4.5Ghz)
○ Ram : KLEVV Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 7200Mhz-30-40-40-26-305-2T
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0070)
○ Voltages (actual under load) : Vcore 1.279v / VDD 1.665v / VDDQ 1.590v / VDDQ TX 1.54 / MC 1.208v / SA 0.944v
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM)


























You can see the real-time voltages,clocks, and temps during Cine23.


----------



## fat4l

sugi0lover said:


> I got the new P-core SP 115 12900K and oced at water temp 26C (Summer is coming)
> I usually turn e-cores off but wanted to test what this SP103 12900K can do with everything on.
> 
> [OC setup - Cine23 10 Min pass]
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP103, P115, E79) / all cores (P 5.5Ghz , E 4.3Ghz, Cache 4.5Ghz)
> ○ Ram : KLEVV Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 7200Mhz-30-40-40-26-305-2T
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0070)
> ○ Voltages (actual under load) : Vcore 1.279v / VDD 1.665v / VDDQ 1.590v / VDDQ TX 1.54 / MC 1.208v / SA 0.944v
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM)
> View attachment 2556761
> 
> View attachment 2556756
> 
> View attachment 2556757
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the real-time voltages,clocks, and temps during Cine23.


Is this delidded mate? Impressive chip!


----------



## sugi0lover

fat4l said:


> Is this delidded mate? Impressive chip!


Not yet. But maybe soon or direct die...


----------



## david12900k

sugi0lover said:


> Not yet. But maybe soon or direct die...


Damn, imagine what it will do delidded. Nice chip


----------



## gecko991

Impressive chip no doubt.


----------



## Ketku-

@sugi0lover nice chip mate!  What llc you running that and what others you chance settings @ digi+ vrm? Starting too oc, so new with OC AlderLake but my chip SP is over 100 and have Apex+G.skill 6400 CL32 too. 

Last time oced 10900K+Apex+G.Skill 4400 CL17 and thats was other world.


----------



## sugi0lover

Ketku- said:


> @sugi0lover nice chip mate!  What llc you running that and what others you chance settings @ digi+ vrm? Starting too oc, so new with OC AlderLake but my chip SP is over 100 and have Apex+G.skill 6400 CL32 too.
> 
> Last time oced 10900K+Apex+G.Skill 4400 CL17 and thats was other world.


Here it is. looking forward to your OC result~


----------



## Ketku-

sugi0lover said:


> Here it is. looking forward to your OC result~
> View attachment 2556775
> 
> View attachment 2556776


Thank you mate.  What style you oced Vcore, V/F Curve, Manual voltage or Adaptive? Sorry for asking stupid questions, but so new with this AlderLake.
I happy with memory oc voltages and know what a do them. But CPU Vcore is new style for me. Thats why i ask what kind type you using with CPU


----------



## sugi0lover

Ketku- said:


> Thank you mate.  What style you oced Vcore, V/F Curve, Manual voltage or Adaptive? Sorry for asking stupid questions, but so new with this AlderLake.
> I happy with memory oc voltages and know what a do them. But CPU Vcore is new style for me. Thats why i ask what kind type you using with CPU


I am used only to manual voltage, so I use manual.


----------



## david12900k

I wish the e cores and p cores ran on different voltage rails...


----------



## fat4l

sugi0lover said:


> Here it is. looking forward to your OC result~
> View attachment 2556775
> 
> View attachment 2556776


CPU input voltage LLC 3, does it do anything if changed to anything else ? 

Do you also disable all C states, downlclocks(speedstep) etc ? Can we have the screen too ?


----------



## MaZo

MaZo said:


> Hi, I have bought 3 for binning and this is the first one that has come to me. Made in china, how do you see it?
> 
> View attachment 2555536


Newbie question... How can I check the IMC quality of my processor? Can I pass some test for it? Thank you very much.


----------



## fat4l

MaZo said:


> Newbie question... How can I check the IMC quality of my processor? Can I pass some test for it? Thank you very much.


so how was the OC going ? Can you run 5.4 or 5.5g in R20?


----------



## MaZo

fat4l said:


> so how was the OC going ? Can you run 5.4 or 5.5g in R20?


I haven't used fixed frequencies on all cores so far. I've used AI OC+TVB+ABT to get the 5.7 boost. I attach screenshots. This way it runs smoothly on CB23.


----------



## fat4l

MaZo said:


> I haven't used fixed frequencies on all cores so far. I've used AI OC+TVB+ABT to get the 5.7 boost. I attach screenshots. This way it runs smoothly on CB23.
> View attachment 2556810
> 
> View attachment 2556809
> 
> View attachment 2556808


Try running 5.4G, 1.34V(or less) LLC6, or possibly 5.5G if cooling is sufficient


----------



## MaZo

fat4l said:


> Try running 5.4G, 1.34V(or less) LLC6, or possibly 5.5G if cooling is sufficient


Ok, I'll try with 5.4, I only have an AIO... So I don't dare with more... It's quite hot in the south of Spain right now


----------



## Ichirou

MaZo said:


> Newbie question... How can I check the IMC quality of my processor? Can I pass some test for it? Thank you very much.


Simple: Just check how high of a frequency of RAM it is capable of booting and stabilizing. Differs depending on if you are using DDR4 or DDR5.
For DDR4, being able to stabilize 4,133+ MHz on Gear 1. For DDR5, being able to stabilize 7,000+ MHz. For boot-only, expect a few hundred MHz above the stable frequency.
From that point, the lower the IMC voltages required, the better.


----------



## jomama22

Ichirou said:


> Simple: Just check how high of a frequency of RAM it is capable of booting and stabilizing. Differs depending on if you are using DDR4 or DDR5.
> For DDR4, being able to stabilize 4,133+ MHz on Gear 1. For DDR5, being able to stabilize 7,000+ MHz. For boot-only, expect a few hundred MHz above the stable frequency.
> From that point, the lower the IMC voltages required, the better.


Honestly this gen, for ddr5, you're gonna be limited by the motherboard more than anything. Suggest looking at Igor's lab ddr5 compilation. With a binned motherboard and 30 CPUs, average max boot was 7400. Lowest was like 7200.


----------



## sugi0lover

fat4l said:


> CPU input voltage LLC 3, does it do anything if changed to anything else ?
> 
> Do you also disable all C states, downlclocks(speedstep) etc ? Can we have the screen too ?


I can share my cmo (bios) profile if you want it after the work tonight.


----------



## philippark4242

Carillo said:


> Finally  4300 Cl14 1T Gear 1 stable  I needed a MSI board for that
> 
> View attachment 2532858


wow unbelived yesterday i try 4267mhz cl16 16 28 240 1.625v your 4300 cl14 is very fantastic


----------



## Ichirou

jomama22 said:


> Honestly this gen, for ddr5, you're gonna be limited by the motherboard more than anything. Suggest looking at Igor's lab ddr5 compilation. With a binned motherboard and 30 CPUs, average max boot was 7400. Lowest was like 7200.


That is a good point; it seems that most people here can't really boot beyond 7,200 MHz on most boards.
Igor's binned board was cherry picked by safedisk so that it wouldn't be a factor that holds back a CPU's IMC.


----------



## Ichirou

philippark4242 said:


> wow unbelived yesterday i try 4267mhz cl16 16 28 240 1.625v your 4300 cl14 is very fantastic
> View attachment 2556870


I'm pretty sure you don't need that much VDIMM for those timings. Is it a poorly binned kit?
I think you might want to dial back to 4,200 MHz for daily. Try to keep under 1.40V for VCCSA.
4,300 MHz needs a very well binned IMC. Not much you can do if it just doesn't work.


----------



## Ketku-

Interesting asking, how many using Asus AiOC, TVB vs Manual overclock?


----------



## MaZo

Ketku- said:


> Interesting asking, how many using Asus AiOC, TVB vs Manual overclock?


Im using AI OC+TVB+ABT to get the 5.7 boost for 3 cores.


----------



## Ketku-

If you honestly think, then does it make sense to switch to 12900K vs 12900KS. I was wondering if I would give a chance with the idea and replace my 12900K with 12900KS ?
What that sounds really if think.. Any sense?


----------



## MaZo

Ketku- said:


> If you honestly think, then does it make sense to switch to 12900K vs 12900KS. I was wondering if I would give a chance with the idea and replace my 12900K with 12900KS ?
> What that sounds really if think.. Any sense?


My experience with 12900K is that with AIOC+TVB I didn't get more than 5.5 on two cores. For me it has been an improvement.


----------



## Ketku-

MaZo said:


> My experience with 12900K is that with AIOC+TVB I didn't get more than 5.5 on two cores. For me it has been an improvement.


This is quite true and certainly a realistic truth. Just wondering but if it makes any sense for myself to switch to 12900K vs 12900KS, is the clocking method AiOc, TVB or Manual.


----------



## fat4l

MaZo said:


> My experience with 12900K is that with AIOC+TVB I didn't get more than 5.5 on two cores. For me it has been an improvement.


yes but your chip is not just some average chip  , anyway have you tried 5.4G manual, LLC6 1.34V or 5.3G LLC6 1.26v ? have you also tested the extra 2 you ordered ?


----------



## MaZo

fat4l said:


> yes but your chip is not just some average chip  , anyway have you tried 5.4G manual, LLC6 1.34V or 5.3G LLC6 1.26v ? have you also tested the extra 2 you ordered ?


Finally I have not tested the other two chips. When you told me in the forum that 106 SP in P-core is a golden chip, I directly returned the other two.

I have not yet done the test with the fixed frequencies in all the cores. I will try to do it today. What is the field in bios where I have to put the voltage to establish it fixed and not change?


----------



## fat4l

MaZo said:


> Finally I have not tested the other two chips. When you told me in the forum that 106 SP in P-core is a golden chip, I directly returned the other two.
> 
> I have not yet done the test with the fixed frequencies in all the cores. I will try to do it today. What is the field in bios where I have to put the voltage to establish it fixed and not change?


Senc all P cores to either 54 or 53.
digi vrm = there you have cpu loadline calibration LLC set to 6.
then in the main window(ai tweaker) where you select xmp and all that, you have "actual vrm core voltage", set to manual and then for 54x = 1.34v, or for 53x 1.26v.
Go to windows, and run CB R20 and see if you can pass, if yes then try lower volts, lets say 1.33V or 1.25V etc.
Ez. Btw not selling your chip ?


----------



## MaZo

fat4l said:


> Senc all P cores to either 54 or 53.
> digi vrm = there you have cpu loadline calibration LLC set to 6.
> then in the main window(ai tweaker) where you select xmp and all that, you have "actual vrm core voltage", set to manual and then for 54x = 1.34v, or for 53x 1.26v.
> Go to windows, and run CB R20 and see if you can pass, if yes then try lower volts, lets say 1.33V or 1.25V etc.
> Ez. Btw not selling your chip ?


Thanks for the instructions!

I don't sell it, I was lucky that I got a 106 with the first chip I tried, but it may be that I never get another one like it. I will not tempt fate


----------



## sugi0lover

fat4l said:


> CPU input voltage LLC 3, does it do anything if changed to anything else ?
> 
> Do you also disable all C states, downlclocks(speedstep) etc ? Can we have the screen too ?


Here it is~





554345_7200c30.CMO







drive.google.com


----------



## affxct

Hey guys, I have the opportunity to upgrade my SP 81 (P 91, E 62) to an SP 96 (P 106, E 78), for a fairly reasonable price. Do you guys know of any means of gauging AVX-512 capability based on batch numbers? His batch number was V140I168. Mine is V134I690 and it supports 512 (obviously).


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

12900KS
SP98
P-core 104
E-core 88
V150J355 batch
Asus Strix D4
1404 BIOS
Got it on the launch day.









Still playing with this chip. Now daily running all core 5.4GHz, ring 5.2GHz, 1.42V LLC5, DR 4133 14-15-15 @1.6V, SA 1.44V.


----------



## Ichirou

affxct said:


> Hey guys, I have the opportunity to upgrade my SP 81 (P 91, E 62) to an SP 96 (P 106, E 78), for a fairly reasonable price. Do you guys know of any means of gauging AVX-512 capability based on batch numbers? His batch number was V140I168. Mine is V134I690 and it supports 512 (obviously).





Ketku- said:


> If you honestly think, then does it make sense to switch to 12900K vs 12900KS. I was wondering if I would give a chance with the idea and replace my 12900K with 12900KS ?
> What that sounds really if think.. Any sense?


Are you a normal person looking to just have a chip to use on a regular basis? Don't upgrade.
Are you a hardcore overclocker who wants an extra 100-200 MHz no matter what and don't mind paying an extra few hundred? Go ahead.

AVX-512 performs similarly on pretty much any chip that has it. It just works the chip harder and hotter. It's not going to be "better or worse" between chips with it.

If you are planning to bin chips, just know that you're going to be in for some losses. If you budget allows for it, go ahead, but otherwise, be content with 5.2-5.3 all core.
Keep in mind that you'll also need really good cooling just to do 5.2-5.3 all core already. So that's an extra expense.


----------



## affxct

Ichirou said:


> Are you a normal person looking to just have a chip to use on a regular basis? Don't upgrade.
> Are you a hardcore overclocker who wants an extra 100-200 MHz no matter what and don't mind paying an extra few hundred? Go ahead.
> 
> AVX-512 performs similarly on pretty much any chip that has it. It just works the chip harder and hotter. It's not going to be "better or worse".
> 
> If you are planning to bin chips, just know that you're going to be in for some losses. If you budget allows for it, go ahead, but otherwise, be content with 5.2-5.3 all core.
> Keep in mind that you'll also need really good cooling just to do 5.2-5.3 all core already. So that's an extra expense.


It's going to cost me 50 bucks... 😬 Where I live there's no market for binned stuff and he's downgrading because he's selling the chip for a bargain and no one wants it. With my cash he can price drop. 

I want AVX-512 for y-cruncher fun and because it's just nice to have. AVX3 does not run hotter than AVX2 on ADL for some strange reason. 

Please please please don't take this the wrong way, but I wasn't really asking if it was a good idea. I kinda just was hoping someone with greater knowledge on batches could let me know about the 512 thing.


----------



## Ketku-

@Ichirou i am regular oc man, with playing games and overcloking my computer. Have high end Custom Loop (2x XE480, 1x CE420 1xSE240) in 1000D Corsair.

Thats why i ask, is it worth change my 12900K to KS. When i hobby something, never thinking money.  but still think this uprage, is it worth or no.


----------



## Groove2013

@OLDFATSHEEP is it 1.42 V in the BIOS or under load? Pime95 with or without AVX, Lynx or CB23 stable?


----------



## Ichirou

affxct said:


> It's going to cost me 50 bucks... 😬 Where I live there's no market for binned stuff and he's downgrading because he's selling the chip for a bargain and no one wants it. With my cash he can price drop.
> 
> I want AVX-512 for y-cruncher fun and because it's just nice to have. AVX3 does not run hotter than AVX2 on ADL for some strange reason.
> 
> Please please please don't take this the wrong way, but I wasn't really asking if it was a good idea. I kinda just was hoping someone with greater knowledge on batches could let me know about the 512 thing.


Paying an extra $50 for that upgrade in core quality is good. AVX-512 is not that important to have, as barely anything uses it.
I'd say do it _if_ you can trade it. If you have to resell your chip, you're probably going to take a loss as there aren't really any buyers for your low end chip.
So it would probably amount to like another $100-150 in cost to upgrade.


Ketku- said:


> @Ichirou i am regular oc man, with playing games and overcloking my computer. Have high end Custom Loop (2x XE480, 1x CE420 1xSE240) in 1000D Corsair.
> 
> Thats why i ask, is it worth change my 12900K to KS. When i hobby something, never thinking money.  but still think this uprage, is it worth or no.


If you can sell your chip without taking too big of a loss, and if you are willing to go through the lottery again (the KS doesn't guarantee a golden chip, as some people here have discovered), then sure.
Frankly, you'll probably be able to fetch a binned KS for a reasonable price second-hand on online sites like this one if you just wait a little longer, as some people will part with them.


----------



## affxct

Ichirou said:


> Paying an extra $50 for that upgrade in core quality is good. AVX-512 is not that important to have, as barely anything uses it.
> I'd say do it _if_ you can trade it. If you have to resell your chip, you're probably going to take a loss as there aren't really any buyers for your low end chip.
> So it would probably amount to like another $100-150 in cost to upgrade.
> 
> If you can sell your chip without taking too big of a loss, and if you are willing to go through the lottery again (the KS doesn't guarantee a golden chip, as some people here have discovered), then sure.
> Frankly, you'll probably be able to fetch a binned KS for a reasonable price second-hand on online sites like this one if you just wait a little longer, as some people will part with them.


He and I pretty much just discussed it and he was cool with my currency equivalent of $50. I wouldn't really have jumped through hoops for this. My current chip is stable in IBT V2 @ 1.3V and y-cruncher's in-built stress test @ 1.31V with ASRock LLC2 (+-50mV droop) for 5.0P/4.7R. It's fairly meh but sufficient for daily. I'm kinda just hoping for something like 5.25 with BCLK at the same/similar voltages. 

That and I'm hoping the new IMC plays nicer with my current kit, as my current one hates it. It did fine enough with two previous kits I've owned in terms of daily'able OCs with rocksolid stability, but one was a Z5 kit that saw a stick die and the other was a kit of XPGs that had mismatched DIMMs and super weird training as a result. 

My current kit of XPGs can't maintain reboot stability with any decent OC and I don't know what it'd take to get a decent stable OC out of it so I'm hoping this chip just behaves totally differently. I don't even particularly need this IMC to be insane, it just needs to behave differently enough so that I can problem solve a daily OC a different way because nothing I've tried thus far has worked. Such a horrible bin of S16B tbh.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> @OLDFATSHEEP is it 1.42 V in the BIOS or under load? Pime95 with or without AVX, Lynx or CB23 stable?


1.42V is the Bios set. Only tested R23 for 30min. I think it would be too hot for P95 since I’m only having a thin 360 rad now.


----------



## Ichirou

affxct said:


> He and I pretty much just discussed it and he was cool with my currency equivalent of $50. I wouldn't really have jumped through hoops for this. My current chip is stable in IBT V2 @ 1.3V and y-cruncher's in-built stress test @ 1.31V with ASRock LLC2 (+-50mV droop) for 5.0P/4.7R. It's fairly meh but sufficient for daily. I'm kinda just hoping for something like 5.25 with BCLK at the same/similar voltages.
> 
> That and I'm hoping the new IMC plays nicer with my current kit, as my current one hates it. It did fine enough with two previous kits I've owned in terms of daily'able OCs with rocksolid stability, but one was a Z5 kit that saw a stick die and the other was a kit of XPGs that had mismatched DIMMs and super weird training as a result.
> 
> My current kit of XPGs can't maintain reboot stability with any decent OC and I don't know what it'd take to get a decent stable OC out of it so I'm hoping this chip just behaves totally differently. I don't even particularly need this IMC to be insane, it just needs to behave differently enough so that I can problem solve a daily OC a different way because nothing I've tried thus far has worked. Such a horrible bin of S16B tbh.


CPU IMC is not linked to CPU core quality. Igor's Lab has already found that out themselves after binning several dozen chips.
So if your goal is to get a good IMC, then you might get sorely disappointed. The IMC quality does not scale linearly. You can have good ones with bad cores, and vice versa.

If I've understood you correctly, you're on DDR4, so be content already if you can manage 4,000-4,133 MHz stable on Gear 1.
Most chips should be able to do 4,000 MHz at the very least with Samsung B-die, with 16 or 32 GB kits.

A frequency over 4,133 MHz requires some pretty thorough binning which is separate from the CPU cores.
The majority of overclockers don't put too high of an emphasis on the IMC, so it is not easy to find them for sale, unless it has been explicitly tested for you.
I've personally tested three chips so far and had mixed results. None of which could do even 4,100 MHz stable, even if some could boot up to 4,133 MHz.


----------



## affxct

Ichirou said:


> CPU IMC is not linked to CPU core quality. Igor's Lab has already found that out themselves after binning several dozen chips.
> So if your goal is to get a good IMC, then you might get sorely disappointed. The IMC quality does not scale linearly. You can have good ones with bad cores, and vice versa.
> 
> The majority of overclockers don't put too high of an emphasis on the IMC, so it's not easy to bin them.
> If I've understood you correctly, you're on DDR4, so be content already if you can manage 4,000-4,133 MHz stable on Gear 1.
> Most chips should be able to do 4,000 MHz at the very least with Samsung B-die, with 16 or 32 GB kits.
> A frequency over 4,133 MHz requires some pretty thorough binning which is separate from the CPU cores.


I actually mentioned but it isn't the quality I'm looking for. I read the article a bit ago. I pretty much just need _different_. Not necessarily god tier but just a different IMC. I'm on D5, pretty much the only reason I got ADL was out of boredom and hoping for an exciting experience. If I was on D4 I'd probably have hoped for 4000C14 and been pleased with that. A friend of mine can't do higher than 3800 on his 12700K and it's been a nightmare for both of us to tune.


----------



## Ichirou

affxct said:


> I actually mentioned but it isn't the quality I'm looking for. I read the article a bit ago. I pretty much just need _different_. Not necessarily god tier but just a different IMC. I'm on D5, pretty much the only reason I got ADL was out of boredom and hoping for an exciting experience. If I was on D4 I'd probably have hoped for 4000C14 and been pleased with that. A friend of mine can't do higher than 3800 on his 12700K and it's been a nightmare for both of us to tune.


4,000 MHz on a 12700K is already a golden IMC for that CPU, actually. So I wouldn't be disappointed with 3,800 MHz.

DDR5 is weighed down by motherboard quality as well, so that plays a role in your memory overclocking capabilities.
Good boards start from around 6,600+ MHz bootable? 7,000+ is binned board territory.
It doesn't seem like the CPU IMC plays too big of a factor in the bootable frequency, since Igor's Lab found that most chips could boot above 7,000 MHz on a binned Apex.
So I'd start with swapping out the motherboard, if anything. If cost is a factor, try the MSI MEG line. Top-end for much less than the popular competitors.


----------



## affxct

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> 1.42V is the Bios set. Only tested R23 for 30min. I think it would be too hot for P95 since I’m only having a thin 360 rad now.


Have you ever had an R23-stable OC crash on you for daily?


----------



## affxct

Ichirou said:


> 4,000 MHz on a 12700K is already a golden IMC for that CPU, actually. So I wouldn't be disappointed with 3,800 MHz.
> 
> DDR5 is weighed down by motherboard quality as well, so that plays a role in your memory overclocking capabilities.
> Good boards start from around 6,600+ MHz bootable? 7,000+ is binned board territory.
> It doesn't seem like the CPU IMC plays too big of a factor in the bootable frequency, since Igor's Lab found that most chips could boot above 7,000 MHz.
> 
> I'd start with swapping out the motherboard, if anything. If cost is a factor, try the MSI MEG line. Top-end for much less than the popular competitors.


Board availability and distributor variance is a MAJOR issue here in South Africa. D5 can be had for dirt cheap and ADL chips have reasonable VAT markups (15%) relative to USA. With boards however, it's quite a crapshoot. I grabbed the Taichi for just under $500, and the Unify (non-X) currently sells for like 800. The Apex sells for 1000. 

It's not really max bootable data rate that's bothering me though tbh. The 6-layer Z690-F I previously owned could boot 6800Mbps with my old kit of Z5 6000C36s (the one that went bad), and I'd be content with 6200C30 on S16B for daily. The Taichi _should_ be able to daily 6200C30 or even up to 6600C36 without issue tbh (would probably require 1.575V with my current kit though). Binning for Hynix is something I'm definitely not going to do though haha. It seems our country is cursed with S16B batches anyway. It's just that this particular kit and my particular chip just do not mesh. 

The Z5s and my old Lancer kit landed on numerous IBT/TM5 stable OCs with reboots factored. This current kit just seems to hate this CPU/board. Unfortunately the kit does XMP and a slightly tuned XMP+ profile just fine, so I wouldn't be able to RMA it like i did with my very first dud kit of Z5 5600C36. Whenever I have to mess with the VDD2 drive voltage to drive higher than XMP VDD/VDDQ voltage signals, it kinda all goes out the window - something that wasn't an issue with the other two kits. Hoping this new 12900K just plays nicer with this particular set of ICs as it's damn near impossible to sell D5 here. Seriously 0 demand for anything ADL-related right now.


----------



## Ichirou

affxct said:


> Board availability and distributor variance is a MAJOR issue here in South Africa. D5 can be had for dirt cheap and ADL chips have reasonable VAT markups (15%) relative to USA. With boards however, it's quite a crapshoot. I grabbed the Taichi for just under $500, and the Unify (non-X) currently sells for like 800. The Apex sells for 1000. It's not really max bootable data rate that's bothering me either.
> 
> The 6-layer Z690-F I previously owned could boot 6800Mbps with my old kit of Z5 6000C36s (the one that went bad), and I'd be content with 6200C30 on S16B for daily. Binning for Hynix is something I'm definitely not going to do and it seems our country is cursed with S16B batches. It's just that this particular kit with my particular chip just do not mesh.
> 
> The Z5s and my old Lancer kit landed on numerous IBT/TM5 stable OCs with reboots factored. This current kit just seems to hate this CPU/board. Unfortunately the kit does XMP and a slightly tuned XMP+ profile just fine. Whenever I have to mess with the VDD2 drive voltage to drive higher than XMP VDD/VDDQ voltage signals, it kinda all goes out the window - something that wasn't an issue with the other two kits.


You might be better off ordering parts second-hand online instead of buying retail then, if availability is an issue.
More and more people are going to part with binned CPUs/RAM kits/boards in the coming days. Don't play around with the lottery and accumulate losses.


----------



## affxct

Ichirou said:


> You might be better off ordering parts second-hand online instead of buying retail then, if availability is an issue.
> More and more people are going to part with binned CPUs/RAM kits/boards in the coming days. Don't play around with the lottery and accumulate losses.


This SP 96 12900K is a fairly cheap W to be honest so I'll definitely have to go with it. My current board was a reasonable price and will have to do for the moment. My current kit will also have to do, as there's no way I'd be able to sell it for anything reasonable (so too with my board for that matter). 

Amazon may have been a good option (too late for that now), but trying to order via Ebay and dealing with the South African postal service is basically a fool's errand. You're going to have your stuff broken or stolen 90% of the time, and that's after how every many months it takes for it to even get through customs. As nice as cheap binned Apex's when Z790 drops sounds, it still wouldn't be worth entertaining our postage service. 

There will be a few cheap Apex's and Unify-X's offloaded in a few months so I'll likely scrape one up, along with a better set of ICs once D5 prices settle. I'm just hoping this IMC allows me to land 6600C36 or 6200C30 at the very least. Would be pleased with that for daily use.


----------



## Ichirou

affxct said:


> This SP 96 12900K is a fairly cheap W to be honest so I'll definitely have to go with it. My current board was a reasonable price and will have to do for the moment. My current kit will also have to do, as there's no way I'd be able to sell it for anything reasonable (so too with my board for that matter).
> 
> Amazon may have been a good option (too late for that now), but trying to order via Ebay and dealing with the South African postal service is basically a fool's errand. You're going to have your stuff broken or stolen 90% of the time, and that's after how every many months it takes for it to even get through customs. As nice as cheap binned Apex's when Z790 drops sounds, it still wouldn't be worth entertaining our postage service.
> 
> There will be a few cheap Apex's and Unify-X's offloaded in a few months so I'll likely scrape one up, along with a better set of ICs once D5 prices settle. I'm just hoping this IMC allows me to land 6600C36 or 6200C30 at the very least. Would be pleased with that for daily use.


Worth a shot, but I don't really think the CPU is the issue. Also, it would cost more than $50 if you can't get rid of your current chip at break even.


----------



## affxct

Ichirou said:


> Worth a shot, but I don't really think the CPU is the issue. Also, it would cost more than $50 if you can't get rid of your current chip at break even.


Nah like I said, he and I are just trading XD. If the entire process would've cost me too much money or time, I would've dropped it tbh. At the end of the day it's just an extra 150MHz in AVX stress tests, realistically. 

I don't think the IMC on my current chip is bad, it's just not happy with this kit. I think at the very least the problem solving will be different. Could maybe land an OC with a different run of voltage changes.


----------



## Ichirou

affxct said:


> Nah like I said, he and I are just trading XD. If the entire process would've cost me too much money or time, I would've dropped it tbh. At the end of the day it's just an extra 150MHz in AVX stress tests, realistically.
> 
> I don't think the IMC on my current chip is bad, it's just not happy with this kit. I think at the very least the problem solving will be different. Could maybe land an OC with a different run of voltage changes.


I am fairly confident that IMC quality doesn't dictate what kinds of dies it plays well with. It simply determines how high of a frequency a chip can boot and stabilize, and how low the IMC voltages are required to do so. That may or may not influence things, but your board's definitely playing a role.

Still, upgrading it for $50 to get better cores is a good trade nonetheless.


----------



## affxct

Ichirou said:


> I am fairly confident that IMC quality doesn't dictate what kinds of dies it plays well with. It simply determines how high of a frequency a chip can boot and stabilize, and how low the IMC voltages are required to do so. That may or may not influence things, but your board's definitely playing a role.
> 
> Still, upgrading it for $50 to get better cores is a good trade nonetheless.


Mmm I would say that that makes sense, but some IMCs react differently to primary timings and subtimings, and generally, I don't see RAM OCs carry over between systems. By this point I'm convinced that the intricacies within the memory subsystem are so vast that situations like these do occur. It would also explain why certain kits pass XMP validation, but don't train on every system, as with why the washer mod breaks D5 training on some systems (my 12900K/Z690-F as well), and not on others. MRC is just so weird that I can't bring myself to believe it's that cut and dry. Pair that with all the D5 weirdness and the vast differences in uncore, drive and transmitter voltage requirements - I'm pretty hopeful. I think there's something else underlying affecting this. If not, then surely I would've had some form of an OC reboot-stable by now.


----------



## Groove2013

@Carillo What's the exact model of your RAM (4300 14-15-15) and what's the voltage you're running it at (HWiNFO reported)?


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> @Carillo What's the exact model of your RAM (4300 14-15-15) and what's the voltage you're running it at (HWiNFO reported)?


RAM quality is not as important as IMC quality if the goal is 4,300 MHz on Gear 1. You can just ramp up VDIMM to make up the difference.
Virtually all bootable 4,300 MHz kits are Single Rank, though. So 2x8 GB Samsung B-die. Not your 2x16 GB kit.
@bscool managed to boot 4,300 MHz 2x16 GB Dual Rank on a golden IMC, however. But that's an insane 1% outlier case.
For 2x16 GB Dual Rank, 4,266 MHz stable is pretty much the best most people can achieve with a binned IMC.
(All of this is assuming 1.45V VCCSA or less. You _might_ be able to force a higher frequency with 1.50V+ VCCSA, but that's not realistic or advisable.)


----------



## Groove2013

@Ichirou I'm well aware of single rank being able to run higher voltage and being less difficult for the IMC and that the IMC is the most important part here. But still wanted to know the model and voltage.


----------



## centvalny

Testing single core ks water, mem air


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> @Ichirou I'm well aware of single rank being able to run higher voltage and being less difficult for the IMC and that the IMC is the most important part here. But still wanted to know the model and voltage.


It's most likely the 4,000 CL14 or 4,800 CL17 2x8 GB SR kit, rated at 1.55V.
There were some tighter binned kits (even lower voltage) years in the past, but they are looong gone into obscurity.
There really aren't many kits better than the 3,600 CL14 kit, besides the 3,800 CL14 kit.


----------



## Groove2013

@Ichirou I have both 2×16 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 and 2×16 3600 14-14-14-34 1.45.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> @Ichirou I have both 2×16 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 and 2×16 3600 14-14-14-34 1.45.


The only better one from that point would be the 4,000 CL14 or 4,800 CL17 kits. But they're unicorns.
Only the people who bought them at release have them, pretty much. I did find one on eBay a month or so ago, but it went for like, $600+ USD, so I didn't bite. It's gone already.
But it's really nothing special. It's the same as the 3,600 flat-14 kit, except that the 3,600 kit needs more VDIMM at 4,000 MHz.
Still, for 4,300 Gear 1, you'll want to go with 2x8 SR. DR is insanely difficult.


----------



## Groove2013

@Ichirou I would have been super happy if I could do 4200 MHz 14-15 or 15-15 2×16.


----------



## Groove2013

@Ichirou 2×16 4800 17-19-19-39 1.6 XMP B-DIE still available in EU.








G.Skill RipJaws V schwarz DIMM Kit 16GB, DDR4-4800, CL17-19-19-39 ab € 249,00 (2023) | Preisvergleich Geizhals EU


✔ Preisvergleich für G.Skill RipJaws V schwarz DIMM Kit 16GB, DDR4-4800, CL17-19-19-39 ✔ Produktinfo ⇒ Typ: DDR4 DIMM 288-Pin • Takt: 4800MHz • Module: 2x 8GB • JEDEC: PC4-38400U… ✔ Speicher ✔ Testberichte ✔ Günstig kaufen




geizhals.eu












G.Skill Trident Z Royal gold DIMM Kit 16GB, DDR4-4800, CL17-19-19-39 ab € 360,80 (2023) | Preisvergleich Geizhals EU


✔ Preisvergleich für G.Skill Trident Z Royal gold DIMM Kit 16GB, DDR4-4800, CL17-19-19-39 ✔ Produktinfo ⇒ Typ: DDR4 DIMM 288-Pin • Takt: 4800MHz • Module: 2x 8GB • JEDEC: PC4-38400U… ✔ Speicher ✔ Testberichte ✔ Günstig kaufen




geizhals.eu


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> @Ichirou I would have been super happy if I could do 4200 MHz 14-15 or 15-15 2×16.


That needs both a VDIMM increase and a binned IMC.
4,200 CL14 is pretty much impossible under 1.60V VDIMM, even with the tightest kits. 4,200 CL15 is more realistic and can be done under 1.60V.
But then you have to deal with binning the IMC.

Before you deal with getting better RAM, what frequency can your CPU boot to begin with?
Just try something like, flat-18 on your primaries, auto everything else, and see how high it can boot, up to 1.40-1.45V VCCSA.
If you can't even boot 4,200 or above, there's no point to binning RAM. You're IMC limited.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> That needs both a VDIMM increase and a binned IMC.
> 4,200 CL14 is pretty much impossible under 1.60V VDIMM, even with the tightest kits. 4,200 CL15 is more realistic and can be done under 1.60V.
> But then you have to deal with binning the IMC.
> 
> Before you deal with getting better RAM, what frequency can your CPU boot to begin with?
> Just try something like, flat-18 on your primaries, auto everything else, and see how high it can boot, up to 1.40-1.45V VCCSA.
> If you can't even boot 4,200 or above, there's no point to binning RAM. You're IMC limited.


My 12900K P-cores SP89 could boot 4200 14-14-14, although errors in Karhu.
My 12900KS P-cores SP 99 can only boot 4133 MHz 14-15-15.

I know about binning RAM kits vs. IMC.
My 3600 14-14 manufactured in Jan. 2022 has difficulties to boot >4000 MHz and can't do uneven timings like 14-15, 15-16 or 17-18, past 4000 MHz.
Only 14-14, 15-15, 16-16 or 17-17 and 18-18 work.
Only at max 4000 MHz it can do uneven timings, like 14-15.

My 3800 14-16 manufactured in Jan. 2021 can do any timings at any frequency and can support max up to 1.61 V (HWiNFO64). higher than that results in errors.


----------



## david12900k

deleted - No crossposting


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> My 12900K P-cores SP89 could boot 4200 14-14-14, although errors in Karhu.
> My 12900KS P-cores SP 99 can only boot 4133 MHz 14-15-15.
> 
> I know about binning RAM kits vs. IMC.
> My 3600 14-14 manufactured in Jan. 2022 has difficulties to boot >4000 MHz and can't do uneven timings like 14-15, 15-16 or 17-18, past 4000 MHz.
> Only 14-14, 15-15, 16-16 or 17-17 and 18-18 work.
> Only at max 4000 MHz it can do uneven timings, like 14-15.
> 
> My 3800 14-16 manufactured in Jan. 2021 can do any timings at any frequency and can support max up to 1.61 V (HWiNFO64). higher than that results in errors.


I bought and tested out the 3,600 flat-14 2x16 GB DR kit myself and refunded it, because it would not boot at any voltage over 1.64V. The batch was March 2022.
It could boot up to 4,133, but errored because my IMC was too weak. Didn't matter how loose the timings were. VCCSA was maxed out.

The errors you got in Karhu were probably because your tRCD is too tight. Even at 4,000 MHz, a tRCD of 14 is already super tight and needs to be an insanely good bin.
There's a reason why even the 4,000 CL14 kit is sold at 14-15-15-XX.

I like my 2x8 GB Galax kit for its ability to boot well over 1.70V. The only limitation is heat. It's binned well enough to do 4,000 14-15-15-XX at 1.55V.


david12900k said:


> So I thought i had my daily setup stable, but there is an issue. I tried OCCT for the first time to make sure the daily 54 p core, 43 e core (XMP 1) was stable. It turns out that it was throwing a bunch of errors (CPU - 9 error(s) found on physical core #3) - kind of errors. I turned the XMP off to default (4800 Mhz) and no errors. Again, the XMP and manual ram OC's had passed TM5, so im confused. So I have been trying to stabilize this.
> Im running the Gskill 6400cl32 kit. Any advice on how to get XMP stable?


Can you pass y-cruncher? If not, raise IMC voltages. Also, try lowering Cache clock.


----------



## Groove2013

david12900k said:


> So I thought i had my daily setup stable, but there is an issue. I tried OCCT for the first time to make sure the daily 54 p core, 43 e core (XMP 1) was stable. It turns out that it was throwing a bunch of errors (CPU - 9 error(s) found on physical core #3) - kind of errors. I turned the XMP off to default (4800 Mhz) and no errors. Again, the XMP and manual ram OC's had passed TM5, so im confused. So I have been trying to stabilize this.
> Im running the Gskill 6400cl32 kit. Any advice on how to get XMP stable?
> 
> Also if I reset all bios settings to defaults and just put on XMP 1 or XMP 2 it throws these errors


Cross-posting is forbidden.

You've posted exactly same message in Intel DDR5 thread already at the same time.


----------



## david12900k

Groove2013 said:


> Cross-posting is forbidden.
> 
> You've posted exactly same message in Intel DDR5 thread already.


didnt realize that wasnt allowed. Ill remove one of them


----------



## david12900k

Ichirou said:


> Can you pass y-cruncher? If not, raise IMC voltages. Also, try lowering Cache clock.


It failed on the default bios settings (with only XMP1 and XMP2 enabled), so cache should already be at 37 i think


----------



## Ichirou

david12900k said:


> It failed on the default bios settings (with only XMP1 and XMP2 enabled), so cache should already be at 37 i think


Try lowering core clock as well. Just to isolate the issue.
If it passes, you didn't give it enough Vcore to stabilize.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> The errors you got in Karhu were probably because your tRCD is too tight. Even at 4,000 MHz, a tRCD of 14 is already super tight and needs to be an insanely good bin.
> There's a reason why even the 4,000 CL14 kit is sold at 14-15-15-XX.


It was able to post at 14-14-14. That's what you asked me.

4133 14-15-15 or 15-15-15 not possible at max 33-34°C on sticks (140 mm Vardar fan 1900 rpm).
4133 14-15-15 was 16000% Karhu stable when the window was open and sticks were slightly under 30°C.

If only I could find 2×16 GB B-DIE sticks that can do more than 1.61 V...


----------



## david12900k

Ichirou said:


> Try lowering core clock as well. Just to isolate the issue.
> If it passes, you didn't give it enough Vcore to stabilize.


my 5.4 all core OC is only at 1.208 v under load (read in hwinfo). Maybe thats the problem? ill try lowering the p cores to 40
This is also happening without any CPU OC at all (default bios settings except for XMP 1)

setting p cores to 40 and e cores to 20 still throws the errors


----------



## Groove2013

@Ichirou not the first time I hear Galax sticks doing >1.6 V no problem.

I will replace the original RGB bling bling aluminium heatsinks with thermal pads by copper ones, that don't require pads, but thermal paste instead - better heat transfer.

Also one friend also installed 1.5 mm thermal pads on RAM PCB as well, not only 0.5 mm on memory chips, like it's usually the case.
And his RAM sticks (on air) stay around 30°C max since then, because sticks' PCB itself also consists of copper layers and heat from memory chips gets distributed across the sticks' PCB as well, thus not only memory chips should be able to transfer the heat to the heatsink, but sticks' PCB should also be able to transfer the heat to the heatsink.


----------



## Groove2013

@Ichirou I suppose your Galax HoF is 2×8 GB only, so not what one should buy nowadays, imho.

I think I will try to buy another 2×16 3600 14-14-14-34 1.45 XMP and hope it's better than my 2×16 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 XMP.

But there is also 2×16 4000 16-16-16-36 1.4 XMP, which, at least at XMP, is better than 3600 CL14, since it's 11.2 ns, instead of 11.28 ns and that at only 1.4 V, instead of 1.45 V.

14×1.45÷3600×2000=11.28 ns
16×1.40÷4000×2000=11.20 ns


----------



## fat4l

What do you guys think about the chip NIK has ?


He can do 5.5G all cores enabled 1.279v die sense but water temp 18C, max core temp 76C...R20 pass.

Or 5.55G 1.341V die sense 84C max temp R20 pass.

5.4G is apparently 1.19v die sense water temp 22C.
It's 12900KS 94/102/78.

I don't know how to compare it with my chip 96/105/79 as my water temp is 28C haha so I can't really do 5.5G as it's too hot but with delid and direct die it could be possible no? Have no idea guys. I do R20 5.4G 1.305v socket sense water temp 28C. Any ideas?


His 5.5G


----------



## centvalny

fat4l said:


> What do you guys think about the chip NIK has ?
> 
> 
> He can do 5.5G all cores enabled 1.279v die sense but water temp 18C, max core temp 76C...R20 pass.
> 
> Or 5.55G 1.341V die sense 84C max temp R20 pass.
> 
> 5.4G is apparently 1.19v die sense water temp 22C.
> It's 12900KS 94/102/78.
> 
> I don't know how to compare it with my chip 96/105/79 as my water temp is 28C haha so I can't really do 5.5G as it's too hot but with delid and direct die it could be possible no? Have no idea guys. I do R20 5.4G 1.305v socket sense water temp 28C. Any ideas?


Unless you are actively looking for the ultimate 7K+ ks r20 on ln2 then sp96+ ks should be good for any task on ambient cooling. Spend $$ on better board and binning ram.
Just my 2c


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> It was able to post at 14-14-14. That's what you asked me.
> 
> 4133 14-15-15 or 15-15-15 not possible at max 33-34°C on sticks (140 mm Vardar fan 1900 rpm).
> 4133 14-15-15 was 16000% Karhu stable when the window was open and sticks were slightly under 30°C.
> 
> If only I could find 2×16 GB B-DIE sticks that can do more than 1.61 V...





Groove2013 said:


> @Ichirou not the first time I hear Galax sticks doing >1.6 V no problem.
> 
> I will replace the original RGB bling bling aluminium heatsinks with thermal pads by copper ones, that don't require pads, but thermal paste instead - better heat transfer.
> 
> Also one friend also installed 1.5 mm thermal pads on RAM PCB as well, not only 0.5 mm on memory chips, like it's usually the case.
> And his RAM sticks (on air) stay around 30°C max since then, because sticks' PCB itself also consists of copper layers and heat from memory chips gets distributed across the sticks' PCB as well, thus not only memory chips should be able to transfer the heat to the heatsink, but sticks' PCB should also be able to transfer the heat to the heatsink.





Groove2013 said:


> @Ichirou I suppose your Galax HoF is 2×8 GB only, so not what one should buy nowadays, imho.
> 
> I think I will try to buy another 2×16 3600 14-14-14-34 1.45 XMP and hope it's better than my 2×16 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 XMP.
> 
> But there is also 2×16 4000 16-16-16-36 1.4 XMP, which, at least at XMP, is better than 3600 CL14, since it's 11.2 ns, instead of 11.28 ns and that at only 1.4 V, instead of 1.45 V.
> 
> 14×1.45÷3600×2000=11.28 ns
> 16×1.40÷4000×2000=11.20 ns


Yeah, I found out first-hand that G.Skill DIMMs are hit or miss in terms of maximum voltage.
It kind of puzzled me when my kit (the one you have) just full on _refused_ to boot above 1.64V. I would've been okay with it overheating, but full on not booting? Perplexing.
tRCD is heat sensitive, which is why it is hard to bin. They probably need to be watercooled in order to actually be viable.

Apparently the Team Xtreem kits use nicely binned Samsung B-die as well, so you might want to consider trying theirs instead. They have better heatspreaders too.
They might allow you to boot higher, since I think the voltage limitation is software, not hardware.

The 4,000 CL16 kits are apparently not as well binned as the 3,600 CL14. I wouldn't bother.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> Yeah, I found out first-hand that G.Skill DIMMs are hit or miss in terms of maximum voltage.
> 
> The 4,000 CL16 kits are apparently not as well binned as the 3,600 CL14. I wouldn't bother.


I had 2 32 GB 4000 CL14 kits and they also couldn't do more than 1.61-1.63 V.

But 16-16-16-36 at 4000 and 1.4 is just slightly more difficult than 14-14-14-34 at 3600 and 1.45, so not so sure about them being not as well binned as 3600 CL14.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> Apparently the Team Xtreem kits use nicely binned Samsung B-die as well, so you might want to consider trying theirs instead.


32 GB 3600 14-15 1.45 not available in EU...


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> I had 2 32 GB 4000 CL14 kits and they also couldn't do more than 1.61-1.63 V.
> 
> But 16-16-16-36 at 4000 and 1.4 is just slightly more difficult than 14-14-14-34 at 3600 and 1.45, so not so sure about them being not as well binned as 3600 CL14.


It sounds like a G.Skill limitation, then. You'll have to test different brands. There are a few off-brands.

I just go by what people have said in the past with regards to 4,000 CL16. You can try them out if you want. But I wouldn't expect much.

tRCD of 14 is hard to bin in general. Some DIMMs can just fail to boot it all together. So at least you know that the tRCD has been binned.


Groove2013 said:


> 32 GB 3600 14-15 1.45 not available in EU...


Unfortunate. You could check eBay, I guess.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> tRCD of 14 is hard to bin in general. Some DIMMs can just fail to boot it all together. So at least you know that the tRCD has been binned.


But doesn't it also depend on frequency?
Lets imagine 4000 16-16 can't do 3866-4000 14-14, but will then will be able to do 3600-3733 14-14?

Same for 3600 14-14. It sure does 3600 14-14, but not sure it will still do 14-14 at 3800-4000.

Or you want to say that if it does 3200 or 3600 14-14, then it will do 3800-4000 14-14, provided DRAM voltage is high enough and sticks can tolerate the voltage fed to them?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

affxct said:


> Have you ever had an R23-stable OC crash on you for daily?


Yup once only when I'm ocing the ring. For core freq, 30min loop is enough.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> But doesn't it also depend on frequency?
> Lets imagine 4000 16-16 can't do 3866-4000 14-14, but will then will be able to do 3600-3733 14-14?
> 
> Same for 3600 14-14. It sure does 3600 14-14, but not sure it will still do 14-14 at 3800-4000.
> 
> Or you want to say that if it does 3200 or 3600 14-14, then it will do 3800-4000 14-14, provided DRAM voltage is high enough and sticks can tolerate the voltage fed to them?


Well yes, tRCD scales with frequency as well.
What I meant is that, if Kit A can go as low as tRCD 14, but Kit B can only go as low as tRCD 15, that means that Kit B will be much less likely to do tRCD 14 at 4,000+ MHz compared to Kit A.
So when you buy a kit that already has tRCD 14, you know for sure that the tRCD has been binned already and the kit is much more heat tolerant than its tRCD 15 brothers. It has a much higher chance of doing tRCD 14 at 4,000 MHz.

tCAS is much less strict as you can pump more voltage to pull it down. The only requirement being that you would need good cooling, since it needs a steep voltage jump to reach tCAS 13. Or to raise frequency while keeping tCAS at 14.

I could pass y-cruncher with 4,400 CL14 on my Galax kit with over 1.70V VDIMM, on Gear 2. Couldn't do TM5 though, as it was overheating.


----------



## Groove2013

ok, I guess I will try my luck again with another 2×16 3600 14-14 kit.


----------



## Bilco

OH man, that vid table looks rough... 
Vietnam batch X206D717
Gonna start testing this. I think the 12900k I had was able to do 5.2 llc7 @1.217 under load... This better be able to best that!


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> ok, I guess I will try my luck again with another 2×16 3600 14-14 kit.


I wouldn't advise it. I'd be more focused on trying to get a better CPU IMC, if anything. You're only going to end up with similar results.


----------



## BelowAverageIQ

Interesting article from Igor's Lab. They mention that intel has modified the heatspreader on the KS cpu's......... SP numbers indicative of what users have reported here, in a batch sample of 30.

Intel’s finest crowbar selection - Core i9-12900KS binning and OC comparison with 12900K/KF | igor'sLAB (igorslab.de)


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> I wouldn't advise it. I'd be more focused on trying to get a better CPU IMC, if anything. You're only going to end up with similar results.


I'll buy 2 more 12900KS. That's the max I would go for.

My 2×16 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 XMP was doing 4000 14-15-15-*15* on my 11900K at 1.611 V VDIMM.
It probably didn't need as much VDIMM, but I started with 1.7 V and was lowering it until it passed 10000% Karhu.
I was looking for max, but still safe VDIMM, to have lowest possible tRFC, which is 234.


----------



## Ichirou

BelowAverageIQ said:


> Interesting article from Igor's Lab. They mention that intel has modified the heatspreader on the KS cpu's......... SP numbers indicative of what users have reported here, in a batch sample of 30.
> 
> Intel’s finest crowbar selection - Core i9-12900KS binning and OC comparison with 12900K/KF | igor'sLAB (igorslab.de)


The SP scores between the K/KF and KS are kind of apples and oranges, since they don't translate to the same real-world performance at the same values.
It does seem that the E-cores are overall better, though. And you're slightly more likely to get a better DDR5 IMC, assuming your motherboard doesn't limit you first.
I don't think the P-cores are necessarily better, though. But I guess you could say that you have a better changes of getting a decent chip.
Sucks that the reviewer skipped on the DDR4 IMC. And yeah, no AVX-512 support, as expected.

TL;DR: It's another lottery. One that costs a significant amount more. But with slightly better chances.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> I'll buy 2 more 12900KS. That's the max I would go for.
> 
> My 2×16 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 XMP was doing 4000 14-15-15-*15* on my 11900K at 1.611 V VDIMM.
> It probably didn't need as much VDIMM, but I started with 1.7 V and was lowering it until it passed 10000% Karhu.
> I was looking for max, but still safe VDIMM, to have lowest possible tRFC, which is 234.


1.61V isn't amazing, but acceptable. tRAS isn't all that meaningful once you get below 25 or so. I think it gets ignored and implicitly rounded up after a certain point.
But really, that's already a good enough kit. Just use that. Loosen tCAS and raise frequency.

I don't think you should just buy a ton of CPUs and sit on them. It's not a race. Resell some and then play the lottery again.
Alternative, you could wait for someone to sell a binned CPU and then just buy that.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> 1.61V isn't amazing, but acceptable. tRAS isn't all that meaningful once you get below 25 or so. I think it gets ignored and implicitly rounded up after a certain point.
> But really, that's already a good enough kit. Just use that. Loosen tCAS and raise frequency.
> 
> I don't think you should just buy a ton of CPUs and sit on them. It's not a race. Resell some and then play the lottery again.
> Alternative, you could wait for someone to sell a binned CPU and then just buy that.


I will see on my 99 SP P-cores KS whether it can do more than 1.611 V VDIMM.

I finally found the max frequency and primaries it can do - 4100 15-15-15-*15*.
4133 is highest it can boot, but 14-15 or 15-15 gives errors.
I think it's better for me to keep it at CL15 4100 than trying to do 4133 15-16 or 16-16.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> I will see on my 99 SP P-cores KS whether it can do more than 1.611 V VDIMM.
> 
> I finally found the max frequency and primaries it can do - 4100 15-15-15-*15*.
> 4133 is highest it can boot, but 14-15 or 15-15 gives errors.
> I think it's better for me to keep it at CL15 4100 than trying to do 4133 15-16 or 16-16.











I'm not sure how many chips you've binned, but I've tried three K's so far, and they boiled down to 2x 4,133 and 1x 4,100 in terms of max bootable.
I imagine that even on the KS, the binning results will be similar.

Considering how the largest percentile exists at 4,133 being the max bootable, I think you should be content if you can stabilize 4,100.
For me, no matter how much I tried, I couldn't even stabilize 4,100 MHz. Didn't matter how loose the timings were. The IMCs were just that weak.

I'm waiting on a chip that's tested to boot up to 4,300 MHz for both SR and DR, so we'll see how things turn out once I receive it.
The cores on the chip itself are above average; not a super high bin. But I'm not looking to daily 5.4+ GHz like most people here are, lol.

Let me know how the IMC on your KS turns out


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> Considering how the largest percentile exists at 4,133 being the max bootable, I think you should be content if you can stabilize 4,100.
> For me, no matter how much I tried, I couldn't even stabilize 4,100 MHz. Didn't matter how loose the timings were. The IMCs were just that weak.


I've done 4100 15-15 at SA and VDDQ TX 1.5 V.
Now that I have the frequency and primaries, I will see to what I can lower each of them both.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> I've done 4100 15-15 at SA and VDDQ TX 1.5 V.
> Now that I have the frequency and primaries, I will see to what I can lower each of them both.


1.50V for VCCSA? That's not ideal. Max should be 1.40V. Buildzoid has stated (for past generations) that 1.40V should be the max daily.
VDDQ, in my experience with both the Strix and Edge, didn't seem to help. So I just left it at Auto.


----------



## gecko991

Agreed.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> I'm not sure how many chips you've binned, but I've tried three K's so far, and they boiled down to 2x 4,133 and 1x 4,100 in terms of max bootable.
> I imagine that even on the KS, the binning results will be similar.
> 
> Considering how the largest percentile exists at 4,133 being the max bootable, I think you should be content if you can stabilize 4,100.
> For me, no matter how much I tried, I couldn't even stabilize 4,100 MHz. Didn't matter how loose the timings were. The IMCs were just that weak.
> 
> I'm waiting on a chip that's tested to boot up to 4,300 MHz for both SR and DR, so we'll see how things turn out once I receive it.
> The cores on the chip itself are above average; not a super high bin. But I'm not looking to daily 5.4+ GHz like most people here are, lol.
> 
> Let me know how the IMC on your KS turns out


Set "initial bclk frequency" to 97 or so, you might boot higher freq.


----------



## EEE-RAY

What is the Tjunction max for 12900ks?

it says on the official intel ark it is 90C but afaik it been 100c for my sample before it throttles.








Product Specifications


quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.




ark.intel.com


----------



## Groove2013

EEE-RAY said:


> What is the Tjunction max for 12900ks?
> 
> it says on the official intel ark it is 90C but afaik it been 100c for my sample before it throttles.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Product Specifications
> 
> 
> quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ark.intel.com


It's 100°C for all 12th gen non-KS and 90°C for KS.


----------



## xarot

Anyone delidded 12900KS yet?


----------



## sugi0lover

What 12900KS can't do better than 12900K 
I simulated my 12900K to see AVX-512 difference.
Everything is the same, both e core off, except AVX-512 enabled/disabled.

[AVX-512 disabled like 12900KS - 67.904s]









[AVX-512 enabled - 52.857s]


----------



## Nizzen

sugi0lover said:


> What 12900KS can't do better than 12900K
> I simulated my 12900K to see AVX-512 difference.
> Everything is the same, both e core off, except AVX-512 enabled/disabled.
> 
> [AVX-512 disabled like 12900KS - 67.904s]
> View attachment 2557096
> 
> 
> [AVX-512 enabled - 52.857s]
> View attachment 2557097


Good 12900k is worth more than good 12900k*s*  🤟


----------



## sugi0lover

Nizzen said:


> Good 12900k is worth more than good 12900k*s*  🤟


I had a choice bet. K(P-SP 115) and KS(P-SP 108) and my pick was K. No regret


----------



## Dinnzy

Does anyone have stable 5.4 ks all core settings on a unify x? I was following builzoids template he posted a while ago using llc 6. My third KS is better then my first 2 as far as the 5.1 floor for r23. 1.219 @ 1.295 input. Max core temp single core hitting 82, Av = 66z If I plug in 1.4 she just dies ;ppp I want to believe, and want to believe that I don’t need go bin the last 2 my MC center has. Also I’m going to delid my sp 98 p core 12900k and see where I can go with that even though previously she OCD like ****, I blame the warped IHS. Help meeeee I just want to pass 5.4 r23 once and I will be happy 😊


----------



## fat4l

xarot said:


> Anyone delidded 12900KS yet?


Linus haha


----------



## fat4l

sugi0lover said:


> I had a choice bet. K(P-SP 115) and KS(P-SP 108) and my pick was K. No regret


Haha ill take his 108 KS


----------



## LionAlonso

philippark4242 said:


> wow unbelived yesterday i try 4267mhz cl16 16 28 240 1.625v your 4300 cl14 is very fantastic
> View attachment 2556870


What bios?


----------



## Xeq54

Soo, ordered another one. Seems to be quite a lot better than the previous one This time its:
SP 93 (old 87)
Pcore 101 (old 93)














Its interesting that the new 93 has different markings on the IHS, different batches too - Both made in China.

Will be returning the old one.


----------



## fat4l

Xeq54 said:


> Soo, ordered another one. Seems to be quite a lot better than the previous one This time its:
> SP 93 (old 87)
> Pcore 101 (old 93)
> View attachment 2557119
> View attachment 2557120
> 
> 
> Its interesting that the new 93 has different markings on the IHS, different batches too - Both made in China.
> 
> Will be returning the old one.


The circle on the ihs indicates an old batch. New one us with Square logo


----------



## fat4l

Ok the delid tool is here. Thanks Rockitcool


----------



## gecko991

Thinking about getting one myself.


----------



## VGeorge

fat4l said:


> View attachment 2557150
> 
> 
> Ok the delid tool is here. Thanks Rockitcool


I wanna get that too. Unfortunately they don't ship from Europe so that means import taxes...
Are you gonna relid your 12900 or are you going for direct die cooling?


----------



## Ichirou

What's the temperature differences between stock IHS, copper IHS, and direct die?


----------



## fat4l

VGeorge said:


> I wanna get that too. Unfortunately they don't ship from Europe so that means import taxes...
> Are you gonna relid your 12900 or are you going for direct die cooling?


I'm in the Europe.. United Kingdom. Didn't pay any taxes as its below the tax value. 

What I can do is I can delid the chip and then sell it to you and send it to Greece. 

I'm going direct die with supercool computer block.


----------



## fat4l

Ichirou said:


> What's the temperature differences between stock IHS, copper IHS, and direct die?


Igor tested direct die. I think it was 16C


----------



## VGeorge

Ichirou said:


> What's the temperature differences between stock IHS, copper IHS, and direct die?


Iirc from watching Linus' video, I think he saw an 8-10C difference between stock and copper IHS (the CPU was drawing a bit more power with the copper IHS).


----------



## Ichirou

VGeorge said:


> Iirc from watching Linus' video, I think he saw an 8-10C difference between stock and copper IHS (the CPU was drawing a bit more power with the copper IHS).


So copper IHS is -10C, while direct die is -16C?


----------



## VGeorge

fat4l said:


> I'm in the Europe.. United Kingdom. Didn't pay any taxes as its below the tax value.
> 
> What I can do is I can delid the chip and then sell it to you and send it to Greece.
> 
> I'm going direct die with supercool computer block.


You are too kind my good sir. I will have to wait for my KS and see if it's worthy haha
But again, thank you for your offer. Hope everything goes smoothly! Don't forget to share the results with us


----------



## Electrosoft

Ichirou said:


> So copper IHS is -10C, while direct die is -16C?


Linus didn't lock in a static Vcore so with the Copper IHS providing better cooling it was drawing more power providing better clocks so his figure isn't entirely accurate but still shows the copper IHS is superior assuming the STIM wasn't too much of a culprit. He didn't retest both a delidded stock IHS w/ LM vs the copper IHS w/ LM.


----------



## Ichirou

Electrosoft said:


> Linus didn't lock in a static Vcore so with the Copper IHS providing better cooling it was drawing more power providing better clocks so his figure isn't entirely accurate but still shows the copper IHS is superior assuming the STIM wasn't too much of a culprit. He didn't retest both a delidded stock IHS w/ LM vs the copper IHS w/ LM.


I'm definitely interested in a copper IHS for the 12th Gen this time. I would consider direct die, but you have to deal with removing the bracket and manually adjusting the standoff height and all that sort of jazz, which complicates things.

A 10C drop is already insanely good as it is. Is Rockit the only store providing it? It's out of stock right now.

Alternatively, I guess I could just do the classic same-IHS but with LM. But I don't have a delid kit for that.


----------



## Gadfly

Well, I am pretty happy with my new 12900KS. SP94, 103P, 77E.

I set up my normal bin test, core voltage static, sync all cores, E cores 4.0ghz, Cache left stock, LLC 7 (Asus Apex, bios 0070), everything else in bios default/auto. I then run a 2 min loop of CB R23 and record the die sense voltage required to complete the loop, and the temp of the hottest core (test bench has an EK 360mm AIO). Here are the results:


5.3ghz: 1.181v, 75'C
5.4ghz: 1.243v, 85'C
5.5ghz: 1.243v, 84'C
5.6ghz: 1.314v, 96'C

The result for 5.5ghz is not an error or typo; and I retested both 5.4 and 5.5 several times. The result was the same, they both required 1.243v to pass, and 5.5 ran 1-2'C cooler than 5.4ghz (got me). I did not attempt 5.7ghz, as I was already on the ragged edge of what my 360mm AIO could handle; I'm just shocked that 5.6ghz passed at all.

I have not tested the e-cores or running a higher cache; but I am pretty happy and can't wait to get it under water in the case once the motherboard situation is resolved.


----------



## gecko991

Noice vcore.


----------



## acoustic

Ichirou said:


> So copper IHS is -10C, while direct die is -16C?


I saw a ~12c drop on my hottest core when I did the Copper IHS. CoolLabs Liquid Pro on the die->IHS, KPx on the IHS->HKIV Pro


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

fat4l said:


> View attachment 2557150
> 
> 
> Ok the delid tool is here. Thanks Rockitcool


I wish I could delid and use on LN2. Unfortunately got to do either or! 😞


----------



## david12900k

You guys aren't going to believe it. I was having ram problems and every time I oc'd even a little over stock it would throw errors in OCCT. Tried everything, resetting bios, clear CMOS.

You wanna know what fixed it? Switching my ram sticks to each other's slots. I hate computers sometimes.


----------



## gecko991

Good one david.


----------



## sugi0lover

david12900k said:


> You guys aren't going to believe it. I was having ram problems and every time I oc'd even a little over stock it would throw errors in OCCT. Tried everything, resetting bios, clear CMOS.
> 
> You wanna know what fixed it? Switching my ram sticks to each other's slots. I hate computers sometimes.


This is the must-do procedure for RAM OC. good to hear your problem got solved.


----------



## Dinnzy

I passed r23 with my 12900ks at 5.3 40 1.25 auto ring load voltage 1.25 and temps on 3 cores touching 91 what do you are the changes of 5.4? On unify x llc 6.


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> What's the temperature differences between stock IHS, copper IHS, and direct die?


This is what I saw from Frame Chaser's test video.


----------



## Gadfly

Dinnzy said:


> I passed r23 with my 12900ks at 5.3 40 1.25 auto ring load voltage 1.25 and temps on 3 cores touching 91 what do you are the changes of 5.4? On unify x llc 6.


is that bios voltage or die sense voltage in hwinfo while under load?


----------



## Dinnzy

Gadfly said:


> is that bios voltage or die sense voltage in hwinfo while under load?


Die sense


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> This is what I saw from Frame Chaser's test video.
> View attachment 2557235


For the stock IHS, is that with or without LM?
And what is the "Super" IHS? The one by that Thai guy, with the direct die kit?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> For the stock IHS, is that with or without LM?
> And what is the "Super" IHS? The one by that Thai guy, with the direct die kit?


Both stock IHS and Copper IHS are delided.
Yes, Super IHS is direct die kit.
Here is the original video.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> Both stock IHS and Copper IHS are delided.
> Yes, Super IHS is direct die kit.
> Here is the original video.


Oh, so the direct die kit doesn't need the bracket to be removed? It's just a full custom direct die IHS with a waterblock?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Oh, so the direct die kit doesn't need the bracket to be removed? It's just a full custom direct die IHS with a waterblock?


Waterblock directly contacted to core. nothing in between.


----------



## centvalny

sugi0lover said:


> Waterblock directly contacted to core. nothing in between.


Wow interesting! I wanna try it


----------



## Nizzen

sugi0lover said:


> Waterblock directly contacted to core. nothing in between.


It's a good reason we used this on 10900k. Now I care more about memory, so dropped direct die from Supercool computers this time. Using the Supercool Ddr5 block instead. Only block that have flow over the momory IC. Thai guys are awsome


----------



## sugi0lover

Nizzen said:


> It's a good reason we used this on 10900k. Now I care more about memory, so dropped direct die from Supercool computers this time. Using the Supercool Ddr5 block instead. Only block that have flow over the momory IC. Thai guys are awsome


I ordered one myself this time . I will post the result when I install it.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> Waterblock directly contacted to core. nothing in between.


Reminds me of the days with direct die frames.
I wonder if they'll be made for the 12th Gen as well, so the Supercool IHS isn't proprietary.
Or maybe somebody with a 3D printer could design a direct die frame for us.


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Reminds me of the days with direct die frames.
> I wonder if they'll be made for the 12th Gen as well, so the Supercool IHS isn't proprietary.
> Or maybe somebody with a 3D printer could design a direct die frame for us.


It seems EK is ready to jump into this business.


----------



## fat4l

Gadfly said:


> Well, I am pretty happy with my new 12900KS. SP94, 103P, 77E.
> 
> I set up my normal bin test, core voltage static, sync all cores, E cores 4.0ghz, Cache left stock, LLC 7 (Asus Apex, bios 0070), everything else in bios default/auto. I then run a 2 min loop of CB R23 and record the die sense voltage required to complete the loop, and the temp of the hottest core (test bench has an EK 360mm AIO). Here are the results:
> 
> 
> 5.3ghz: 1.181v, 75'C
> 5.4ghz: 1.243v, 85'C
> 5.5ghz: 1.243v, 84'C
> 5.6ghz: 1.314v, 96'C
> 
> The result for 5.5ghz is not an error or typo; and I retested both 5.4 and 5.5 several times. The result was the same, they both required 1.243v to pass, and 5.5 ran 1-2'C cooler than 5.4ghz (got me). I did not attempt 5.7ghz, as I was already on the ragged edge of what my 360mm AIO could handle; I'm just shocked that 5.6ghz passed at all.
> 
> I have not tested the e-cores or running a higher cache; but I am pretty happy and can't wait to get it under water in the case once the motherboard situation is resolved.


This is some impressive numbers...almost unbelievable 😄😅😇


----------



## fat4l

sugi0lover said:


> It seems EK is ready to jump into this business.
> View attachment 2557256


I already contacted EK about it. They said this:


----------



## sugi0lover

fat4l said:


> This is some impressive numbers...almost unbelievable 😄😅😇


It's good info, but it could be much better/useful info with hwinfo and cine score screenshots.


----------



## acoustic

sugi0lover said:


> This is what I saw from Frame Chaser's test video.
> View attachment 2557235


He had a poor mount of the IHS to the die, or block to die, with the Copper IHS if he's getting the same temps. There's no way. Frame Chasers does really shoddy work and if this is the info he's trying to push then that only confirms it. I must be a unicorn for seeing a 10c drop on hottest core stock vs copper IHS


----------



## Ketku-

What you guys think about this, my friend was ask this: He own 12900K SP86 (P95 E61) and think if try 12900KS, sense or not? He has Apex+6000 G.Skill and good Custom Loop.

I wasent know good answer, so i decide ask in here..


----------



## acoustic

Ketku- said:


> What you guys think about this, my friend was ask this: He own 12900K SP86 (P95 E61) and think if try 12900KS, sense or not? He has Apex+6000 G.Skill and good Custom Loop.
> 
> I wasent know good answer, so i decide ask in here..


Nope. If you want a new chip at this point just wait for Raptor Lake. Waste of $$


----------



## david12900k

acoustic said:


> Nope. If you want a new chip at this point just wait for Raptor Lake. Waste of $$


Agreed. Raptor lake is rumored to have 5.8.ghz boost, better power delivery (which some speculate will reduce temps), and at least 15% better ipc


----------



## Ketku-

david12900k said:


> Agreed. Raptor lake is rumored to have 5.8.ghz boost, better power delivery (which some speculate will reduce temps), and at least 15% better ipc


True, i tell friend that. 



acoustic said:


> Nope. If you want a new chip at this point just wait for Raptor Lake. Waste of $$


True!


----------



## david12900k

Ketku- said:


> What you guys think about this, my friend was ask this: He own 12900K SP86 (P95 E61) and think if try 12900KS, sense or not? He has Apex+6000 G.Skill and good Custom Loop.
> 
> I wasent know good answer, so i decide ask in here..


I dont think asking here is a very good idea. The reality is that most of us see overclocking as a hobby. And that means we are willing to spend the extra money on things that would not make sense for the average user or even an enthusiast, and make decisions that arent financially smart for the vast majority of people.

Your friend should wait for Raptor Lake (late Q3 of this year) if they are wanting an upgrade for their 12900k.


----------



## david12900k

Oh and not to mention Raptor Lake will have significantly better DDR5 performance (along with z790 boards and chipsets)


----------



## Nizzen

david12900k said:


> Oh and not to mention Raptor Lake will have significantly better DDR5 performance (along with z790 boards and chipsets)


Most performance is in the memory, so all you need is a MB that does 7000+ ddr5 😇


----------



## Ketku-

david12900k said:


> I dont think asking here is a very good idea. The reality is that most of us see overclocking as a hobby. And that means we are willing to spend the extra money on things that would not make sense for the average user or even an enthusiast, and make decisions that arent financially smart for the vast majority of people.
> 
> Your friend should wait for Raptor Lake (late Q3 of this year) if they are wanting an upgrade for their 12900k.


Haha mate, i am the overclocker too and my things is not any sense


----------



## acoustic

Nizzen said:


> Most performance is in the memory, so all you need is a MB that does 7000+ ddr5 😇


Hopefully we get better QC with Z790.


----------



## david12900k

acoustic said:


> Hopefully we get better QC with Z790.


As with any first generation of a new standard, the early ddr5 days are/were a little rocky, but I'm confident that with z790 that will change. DDR5 development has moved SO fast. In under a year we are already up to 6400 MT/s being sold as the xmp frequency. I think next year with z790 enabling faster speeds we will see some insane speeds that will truly put DDR4 to shame. Plus both Motherboard and ram companies have now had the technology in the wild for 8 months, so they have a much larger dataset to learn from


----------



## mmpol

Guys Im binning ks cpus on msi unify x what sp would be for p core for cpu that do linpack stable at 1.22 v all core 5.3 ghz under load 90 degree max?


----------



## nickolp1974

xarot said:


> Anyone delidded 12900KS yet?


yep, still cant get 5.4g


----------



## fat4l

nickolp1974 said:


> yep, still cant get 5.4g


So what was your improvement?


----------



## nickolp1974

fat4l said:


> So what was your improvement?


not a lot!! but i think i have an issue heres a quick run, reckon i need to re do LM, im on Lian li gallahad 360, also using the copper IHS


----------



## Gadfly

nickolp1974 said:


> not a lot!! but i think i have an issue heres a quick run, reckon i need to re do LM, im on Lian li gallahad 360, also using the copper IHS
> View attachment 2557302


wait, you are running this with an AIO? What is you die sense voltage under load?


----------



## nickolp1974

Gadfly said:


> wait, you are running this with an AIO? What is you die sense voltage under load?


Yes aio, the pic is during benchmark, 1.42v set LLC4, die sense, shows 1.376v in cpuz idle and 1.217-1.234v under load


----------



## Ichirou

@Groove2013 4,300 MHz Gear 1 bootable chip is here, but realistic daily is probably in the 4,200-4,266 MHz range. Can't boot any higher than 4,300.
It's not an insanely golden IMC like safedisk or Carillo's, but it's still a very good one. I might be able to stabilize 4,300 if I throw 1.50V VCCSA at it, but that's obviously not ideal.

At 4,266 MHz, I can stabilize y-cruncher with 1.45V VCCSA, while TM5 with anta777 is stable at less.
Going to keep testing things out, like seeing if I can push my RAM harder.


----------



## fat4l

nickolp1974 said:


> not a lot!! but i think i have an issue heres a quick run, reckon i need to re do LM, im on Lian li gallahad 360, also using the copper IHS
> View attachment 2557302


did it reduce the temps at all for you ?


----------



## nickolp1974

fat4l said:


> did it reduce the temps at all for you ?


yes upto 5.2ghz, only about -8c, just about to try stock IHS, as you can see my temp spread is not very consistent. I posted earlier in the thread about strange behaviour, requiring loads more voltage to get to that 5.4 mark with temps still good, this is currently with a different mount. I would just get insta shutdown,restart, no blue screen but with kernal41 power in event viewer, got that a fair bit but i assume thats just from OC or can something else cause this??


----------



## Dinnzy

Anyone in Philadelphia P.A with a lg1700 delid tool ?


----------



## fat4l

nickolp1974 said:


> yes upto 5.2ghz, only about -8c, just about to try stock IHS, as you can see my temp spread is not very consistent. I posted earlier in the thread about strange behaviour, requiring loads more voltage to get to that 5.4 mark with temps still good, this is currently with a different mount. I would just get insta shutdown,restart, no blue screen but with kernal41 power in event viewer, got that a fair bit but i assume thats just from OC or can something else cause this??


maybe that is the limit of the chip..theres always a "hard wall"  

What's you sp ratings ?


----------



## nickolp1974

fat4l said:


> maybe that is the limit of the chip..theres always a "hard wall"
> 
> What's you sp ratings ?


90 94/82

typical ran out of LM so gotta wait to re run here's a pic of 53 1st time round


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> @Groove2013 4,300 MHz Gear 1 bootable chip is here, but realistic daily is probably in the 4,200-4,266 MHz range. Can't boot any higher than 4,300.
> It's not an insanely golden IMC like safedisk or Carillo's, but it's still a very good one. I might be able to stabilize 4,300 if I throw 1.50V VCCSA at it, but that's obviously not ideal.
> 
> At 4,266 MHz, I can stabilize y-cruncher with 1.45V VCCSA, while TM5 with anta777 is stable at less.
> Going to keep testing things out, like seeing if I can push my RAM harder.


I hope it's not just 16 GB.
I always use Karhu for frequency and timings and Prime95 for voltages.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> @Groove2013 4,300 MHz Gear 1 bootable chip is here, but realistic daily is probably in the 4,200-4,266 MHz range. Can't boot any higher than 4,300.
> It's not an insanely golden IMC like safedisk or Carillo's, but it's still a very good one. I might be able to stabilize 4,300 if I throw 1.50V VCCSA at it, but that's obviously not ideal.
> 
> At 4,266 MHz, I can stabilize y-cruncher with 1.45V VCCSA, while TM5 with anta777 is stable at less.
> Going to keep testing things out, like seeing if I can push my RAM harder.


@bscool my KS has a really garbage IMC, since even in gear 2 it can't boot higher than 4266 MHz, even at 17-19-19-39.
In gear 2, after 4266 MHz, 4300 are simply missing. It's directly 4400 MHz, unlike in gear 1, where you have 3700, 3900, 4100, 4300, 4500, 4700.
In gear 2 you have only 3600, 3800, 4000, 4200, 4400, 4600, 4800.

Could but 4266 15-15-15-35 and now checking whether it's 10000% Karhu stable with max DRAM voltage my sticks can take, since the only limit now is VDIMM, because SA and VDDQ TX are IMC related and in gear 2 with both at 1.5 V and only half of IMC frequency, I don't think it limits anything.

This way, without IMC limiting me, I can see what my sticks can really do.

If 4266 15-15-15-35 will do 10000% Karhu, without errors, then I will know that my sticks can do it with their max VDIMM and anything else will be IMC limit then.

4266 *14*-15-15-35 - no boot.
4266 15-15-15-*15* - no boot.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> @bscool my KS has a really garbage IMC, since even in gear 2 it can't boot higher than 4266 MHz, even at 17-19-19-39.
> In gear 2, after 4266 MHz, 4300 are simply missing. It's directly 4400 MHz, unlike in gear 1, where you have 3700, 3900, 4100, 4300, 4500, 4700.
> In gear 2 you have only 3600, 3800, 4000, 4200, 4400, 4600, 4800.
> 
> Could but 4266 15-15-15-35 and now checking whether it's 10000% Karhu stable with max DRAM voltage my sticks can take, since the only limit now is VDIMM, because SA and VDDQ TX are IMC related and in gear 2 with both at 1.5 V and only half of IMC frequency, I don't think it limits anything.
> 
> This way, without IMC limiting me, I can see what my sticks can really do.
> 
> If 4266 15-15-15-35 will do 10000% Karhu, without errors, then I will know that my sticks can do it with their max VDIMM and anything else will be IMC limit then.
> 
> 4266 *14*-15-15-35 - no boot.
> 4266 15-15-15-*15* - no boot.


If you have an ASUS motherboard, not being able to boot over 4,266 MHz on Gear 2 might be a board issue. I experienced the same thing when I used the Strix myself.
After I swapped to the MSI Edge, I could boot up to 5,000 MHz just fine on Samsung B-die. It wasn't TM5 stable, but it could pass y-cruncher.

In the meanwhile, still doing some tests.


----------



## cletus-cassidy

Ichirou said:


> @Groove2013 4,300 MHz Gear 1 bootable chip is here, but realistic daily is probably in the 4,200-4,266 MHz range. Can't boot any higher than 4,300.
> It's not an insanely golden IMC like safedisk or Carillo's, but it's still a very good one. I might be able to stabilize 4,300 if I throw 1.50V VCCSA at it, but that's obviously not ideal.
> 
> At 4,266 MHz, I can stabilize y-cruncher with 1.45V VCCSA, while TM5 with anta777 is stable at less.
> Going to keep testing things out, like seeing if I can push my RAM harder.


Apologies if you posted before, but do you have some screen shots of your DDR4 mem timings/voltages? I'm playing around with the same board plus dual rank 2x16GB b-die and would love a starting point.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> If you have an ASUS motherboard, not being able to boot over 4,266 MHz on Gear 2 might be a board issue. I experienced the same thing when I used the Strix myself.
> After I swapped to the MSI Edge, I could boot up to 5,000 MHz just fine on Samsung B-die. It wasn't TM5 stable, but it could pass y-cruncher.
> 
> In the meanwhile, still doing some tests.


More than 10000% Karhu RAM Test done at 4266 15-15-15-35 gear 2 1.586 V.

So sticks can handle this for sure.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> If you have an ASUS motherboard, not being able to boot over 4,266 MHz on Gear 2 might be a board issue. I experienced the same thing when I used the Strix myself.
> After I swapped to the MSI Edge, I could boot up to 5,000 MHz just fine on Samsung B-die. It wasn't TM5 stable, but it could pass y-cruncher.
> 
> In the meanwhile, still doing some tests.


Do you think, that if the board is limiting gear 2 frequency, could it also be limiting gear 1 frequency?
Or if does 4266 gear 2, should it also be able to do 4266 gear 1, provided sticks and IMC can handle that?
I can buy MSI Edge no problem.

And your bootable 4300 MHz, is it with 16 or 32 GB?


----------



## Ichirou

cletus-cassidy said:


> Apologies if you posted before, but do you have some screen shots of your DDR4 mem timings/voltages? I'm playing around with the same board plus dual rank 2x16GB b-die and would love a starting point.


@bscool can fill you in; he stabilized 4,266 2x16 GB DR. I only have SR DIMMs right now.


Groove2013 said:


> Do you think, that if the board is limiting gear 2 frequency, could it also be limiting gear 1 frequency?
> Or if does 4266 gear 2, should it also be able to do 4266 gear 1, provided sticks and IMC can handle that?
> I can buy MSI Edge no problem.
> 
> And your bootable 4300 MHz, is it with 16 or 32 GB?


I didn't find Gear 1 frequencies to be limited by the motherboard. Just the IMC. RAM shouldn't be a major issue.

Once I stabilize Samsung B-die SR, I will move onto higher capacities, likely with Micron B-die for 64 GB daily.


Groove2013 said:


> More than 10000% Karhu RAM Test done at 4266 15-15-15-35 gear 2 1.586 V.
> 
> So sticks can handle this for sure.


2x8 GB SR set to 4,266 MHz @ 14-17-14-30-1T Gear 2 is stable in TM5 and y-cruncher. (This kit I have has a poorly binned tRCD.)
On Gear 1, I can only pass y-cruncher with VCCSA at 1.50V. In TM5, I still get some errors; but much less than if I were to drop VCCSA to 1.45V. So an IMC weakness.
(This is with the P-cores at 47x, E-cores off, and Cache at 40x. Max Vcore at ~1.20V HWInfo)

If I loosen it to 15-17-15-36-1T, I can pass TM5 as well as y-cruncher on Gear 1, at only 1.45V VCCSA. It seems that as you tighten tCL, VCCSA needs to be raised as well.

It's evident that safedisk/Carillo's IMCs are the most golden possible that can do 4,300+ 14-15-15-XX-1T stable, while mine has mixed results at 4,300 MHz.
Even when loosened with VCCSA at 1.50V, I can't pass y-cruncher. So I guess for this particular chip, 4,266 MHz is the most realistic max stable frequency.
AIDA64 benches work at 4,300 MHz, but that's about it.

I'll test out lowering frequency but increasing capacity later. Even 1.45V for VCCSA isn't ideal, so that's the next logical step anyway.


----------



## centvalny

Probly max limit with ambient cooling
Imc Intel Core i9 12900KS @ 5598.66 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> I didn't find Gear 1 frequencies to be limited by the motherboard. Just the IMC. RAM shouldn't be a major issue.


Maybe because your mobo is not Asus, but MSI.
Don't know whether I should try MSI Edge or another KS instead.

Who knows, maybe it's my sticks.
I've already seen few 3200 CL14 sticks topping out at only 3600 MHz.


Ichirou said:


> 2x8 GB SR set to 4,266 MHz @ 14-17-14-30-1T Gear 2 is stable in TM5 and y-cruncher.
> On Gear 1, I can only pass y-cruncher with VCCSA at 1.50V. In TM5, I still get some errors; but much less than if I were to drop VCCSA to 1.45V. So an IMC weakness.


1T at such frequency in gear 1 is due to 16 GB only. 32 GB 1T you can forget at such frequency.


----------



## Groove2013

@Ichirou I have time to return my Asus Strix board not later than saturday and CPU not later than the beginning of the next week.
So I don't know what should I do.


----------



## DSHG87

Is it really possible, 1.19V for 4,8GHz?


----------



## fat4l

So how many ppl in here can actually run CB20 at 5.5g with all ecores enabled?


----------



## david12900k

fat4l said:


> So how many ppl in here can actually run CB20 at 5.5g with all ecores enabled?


I can finish a single run, but after a ton of testing, I'm not sure I'm ever going to get 5.5 stable with e-cores enabled


----------



## david12900k

fat4l said:


> So how many ppl in here can actually run CB20 at 5.5g with all ecores enabled?


After all of my ram issues, I'm now re-validating all of my stable OC settings, and I may try 55 again, but I wasn't able to stabilize 55 the last time


----------



## IronAge

Thermalright LGA1700-BCF, un accessoire pour empêcher les processeurs Alder Lake-S de plier - Accessoires


Depuis plusieurs jours, la polémique à propos des processeurs, et sockets associés, Intel Alder Lake-S qui plient quand on ver..., actualité 80999




www.cowcotland.com





Intel ILM bending failure creates demand for bending corrector frame.


----------



## dante`afk

KS are no unicorn, having an average K and looking to get a good KS is like finding a needle in a haystack, performance difference is literally obsolete.

not worth my time


----------



## bscool

Edit


----------



## fat4l

david12900k said:


> After all of my ram issues, I'm now re-validating all of my stable OC settings, and I may try 55 again, but I wasn't able to stabilize 55 the last time


Let's see  I wasn't able to do it with my chip. I tried up to extra 0.09V under load I needed for 5.4G but nah...
What is the voltage you need for a single run of R20?

I'm getting one golden chip from NIK soon (it was posted already from Germany) so let's see what I can do with it.


----------



## J_Lab4645

david12900k said:


> After all of my ram issues, I'm now re-validating all of my stable OC settings, and I may try 55 again, but I wasn't able to stabilize 55 the last time



I've binned 4 KS: LLC6, Socket Sense, Px53, Ex40 (Results below indicate lowest Stable V)
Memory Gskill 6000, 36/36/36/76 XMPI (Apex Z690)

#1 SP87, P95, E72 Bios V=1.34 Vcore(load) = 1.32
#2 SP90, P96, E78 Bios V=1.33 Vcore(load) = 1.30
#3 SP84, P91, E70 Bios V=1.33 Vcore(load) = 1.305
#4 SP88, P94, E76 Bios V=1.30 Vcore(load) = 1.27

.....Now running all chips at default Px52, Ex40 (AVX ,AVX2) OCCT stress tests
LLC3, AC .60, DC 1.1, No offsets.
........You're joking right!? TjMax- Kaboom immediately on ALL

Now running same LLC3 but [email protected] .40. + max offset at VFpt #5 (5200) I could get away with before crash (AVX/AVX2)
LLC3, AC .40, DC 1.1
#1 Passed at (0) offset
#2 Passed at (-50mv) offset
#3 Passed at (-50mv) offset
#4 Passed at (-90mv) offset

#1 Didn't test any further- Back for refund
#2 (Best SP) Intermittent memory issues galore but boosted two best cores to x57 no problemo.
#3 Rock solid but couldn't boost above x55 on 2 cores without SKY-High temps
#4 No memory issues whatsoever, boost to x57 on 2 cores and runs P52, E40 with LLC3, AC .35, DC 1.1 Rock solid AVX, AVX2 (Coolest running most stable chip out of the bunch)

So if you're binning by SP #'s alone.......It doesn't make sense. Chip #4 which I kept and returned the rest runs about 6-8C cooler than the rest at the same damn settings. ***!?
Also, (as some of you may be experiencing) One of my chips (best SP90) had just random crashes and memory testing proved it. One day I got through an hour of MemTest5/Karhu and then other times after cold boot, Couldn't pass 5 minutes of it. Tried adjusting SA and found 'the best' setting but it didn't stand the test of time. Chips #3, #4 no memory issues at all. Ran MemTest5/Karhu overnight with NADA!? ALL chips tested I ran the same exact XMP I memory settings. It was just Chip #2 needed SA at perfection....and even that (over time) didn't end up working out.

Lastly, for those USA users. Best Buy currently offers a 30day return policy (if you're a member) on KS's or 15 day (if you're not). Every time I check Newegg vs Best Buy for i9-12900KS. Newegg has plenty of stock, but Best Buy runs out immediately after they post ANY. What does that tell you? Newegg has a (Replacement Only Policy on CPU's) compared to Best Buy's no questions asked refund policy. No wonder Best Buy is selling out ASAP while Newegg is offering discounts on the KS. I don't know if this will happen or not but if you're binning KS's through BB, I'd return them ASAP after you've tested the dud's. My prediction (and I'm only guessing) is that BB in the next few weeks/months is going to get a bombardment of KS CPu's back after a lot of us have binned their 'quality' and may revoke the refund policy. Do I have a crystal ball? Nope! But if you're binning from BB, it's something to think about. GL


----------



## J_Lab4645

For those of you holding SP scores as gospel- Have at it!

Golden Intel Core i9-12900KS - Core i9 12th Gen Alder Lake _P-Core SP102_ 735858513289 | eBay


----------



## assist726

IronAge said:


> Thermalright LGA1700-BCF, un accessoire pour empêcher les processeurs Alder Lake-S de plier - Accessoires
> 
> 
> Depuis plusieurs jours, la polémique à propos des processeurs, et sockets associés, Intel Alder Lake-S qui plient quand on ver..., actualité 80999
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.cowcotland.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel ILM bending failure creates demand for bending corrector frame.


Funnily enough I bought one of these as I was see poor contact with my thermal paste, and in the process of installing accidentally destroyed the pins on my motherboard


----------



## assist726

J_Lab4645 said:


> For those of you holding SP scores as gospel- Have at it!
> 
> Golden Intel Core i9-12900KS - Core i9 12th Gen Alder Lake _P-Core SP102_ 735858513289 | eBay


It seems that there's much more active of a 2nd hand binning market in China and there's quite a lot more listening for high SP chips at a low price than this too


----------



## Hfhjfg

DSHG87 said:


> Is it really possible, 1.19V for 4,8GHz?
> 
> View attachment 2557362


Even 0.975 is possible for 4.8 all cores


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> Maybe because your mobo is not Asus, but MSI.
> Don't know whether I should try MSI Edge or another KS instead.
> 
> Who knows, maybe it's my sticks.
> I've already seen few 3200 CL14 sticks topping out at only 3600 MHz.
> 
> 1T at such frequency in gear 1 is due to 16 GB only. 32 GB 1T you can forget at such frequency.





Groove2013 said:


> @Ichirou I have time to return my Asus Strix board not later than saturday and CPU not later than the beginning of the next week.
> So I don't know what should I do.


Well yes, 1T hammers the IMC pretty hard, so I imagine it wouldn't be easy to run on Dual Rank.
But you shouldn't be capped off at 3,600 MHz anyway. It might be a BIOS issue. Ask @bscool

I wouldn't advise swapping the motherboard. Again, I've tested out both the Strix and the Edge. The differences are extremely minor.
It is most likely the CPU IMC being weak. Unless your chip can boot at least 4,200-4,266 MHz, don't expect to be able to stabilize even 4,133 MHz.
And the vast majority of chips can only boot up to 4,133 MHz max, so... That equates to a maximum stable frequency of probably 4,000 MHz.
4,000 MHz was a frequency I could stabilize on all four chips just fine, at Gear 1. Even on the weakest one which could only boot 4,100 MHz.

The DDR4 IMC is strangely difficult to bin. DDR5 is much more predictable, as the frequency is largely limited by motherboard, not IMC.
Higher P-core SP =/= guaranteed higher quality DDR4 IMC.
Most people here have moved onto DDR5, so there aren't really any "FS: 4,300 MHz Gear 1 Boot IMC 12900K" for sale.

I've found that bootable frequency is kind of binary; even if your max frequency is X but you only need a very low VCCSA to boot it (e.g. 1.25V or less),
it doesn't matter how much VCCSA you throw at the chip, it simply won't boot any higher.


----------



## Groove2013

@Ichirou I'm thinking of getting rid of the mobo and the KS and get back to my 11900K and Z590 Apex.
Now that I think of it, it's not worth close to 900€ for such a CPU with so many quirks and a mid range 4 slots mobo with no useful buttons and BIOS settings, like separate BCLK, that costs close to Apex Z590 price + all the bending of mobos, sockets, CPUs, trash/"alpha" BIOS versions and us being literally laboratory rats for our own money, a lot of money.

Will just use the KS now to see whether my 3800 14-16-16-36 can do 14-14-14-34, so I know whether it's my RAM not being able to go lower than 14-15-15 or it's the IMC.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> @Ichirou I'm thinking of getting rid of the mobo and the KS and get back to my 11900K and Z590 Apex.
> Now that I think of it, it's not worth close to 900€ for such a CPU with so many quirks and a mid range 4 slots mobo with no useful buttons and BIOS settings, like separate BCLK, that cost close to Apex Z590 price + all the bending of mobos, sockets, CPUs, trash/"alpha" BIOS versions.
> 
> Will just use the KS now to see whether my 3800 14-16-16-36 can do 14-14-14-34, so I know whether it's my RAM not being able to go lower than 14-15-15 or it's the IMC.


I had the same discussion with @bscool before, and he strongly advised against going back to Z590. According to benchmarks, Z690 beats it in every possible way.
He has several Z590 chips and IIRC boards as well, so he's not new to the scene.

I assure you, it is a CPU IMC weakness. But that in itself is a lot of trouble too, since it means you'd have to bin a ton of chips just to get more than 4,000 MHz stable on Gear 1.
DDR5 is significantly easier as long as you get a decently high end board, but going DDR5 costs so much more for the same performance...

For you, since 4,000 MHz Gear 1 is pretty much guaranteed, you might be better off binning chips for better P-cores and clocking those cores up instead.
There will be tons of binned KS chips available for sale in the coming days by people offloading them from their binning.


----------



## nickolp1974

centvalny said:


> Probly max limit with ambient cooling
> Imc Intel Core i9 12900KS @ 5598.66 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
> View attachment 2557356
> 
> 
> View attachment 2557357


some good numbers on that CPU/mem/MB combo


----------



## centvalny

nickolp1974 said:


> some good numbers on that CPU/mem/MB combo


Thank you. Hope it will scale up more in xoc settings.


----------



## nickolp1974

centvalny said:


> Thank you. Hope it will scale up more in xoc settings.


fingers crossed. I miss those days, but not the frustration!! condensation on the memory usually the cause of that but i believe the heater thing helps a lot with that which i never got to try.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> I assure you, it is a CPU IMC weakness.
> 
> 4,000 MHz Gear 1 is pretty much guaranteed


I hope so. I could buy 2-3 KS more then.
I really like Asus BIOS layout and wouldn't want to change it for MSI.
My SP99 P-cores KS does 4100 MHz 15-15-15 10000% Karhu stable.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> I hope so. I could buy 2-3 KS more then.
> I really like Asus BIOS layout and wouldn't want to change it for MSI.
> My SP99 P-cores KS does 4100 MHz 15-15-15 10000% Karhu stable.


That's honestly good enough of a chip. I wouldn't swap it out, really. Just stick to 4,100 MHz and push the cores harder

P-core SP of 99 is very close to ~105, which is what most people here have. It would only need slightly more Vcore for the same clocks.


----------



## Groove2013

@Ichirou my SP89-91 P-cores 12900K could boot 4200 MHz 14-14-14 on BIOS 0901 for Strix D4.

Current KS SP99 P-cores can boot max 4133 MHz 15-15-15, but it's BIOS 140X, since older BIOSes not compatible with KS. So no comparison apples to apples.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> @Ichirou my SP89-91 P-cores 12900K could boot 4200 MHz 14-14-14 on BIOS 0901 for Strix D4.
> 
> Current KS SP99 P-cores can boot max 4133 MHz 15-15-15.


Oof, that first chip had a decent DDR4 IMC but the rest of it was bad. I can understand why you swapped it out.
The max bootable frequency of 4,133 MHz is standard. That means only 4,000-4,100 is the max stable. But that's good enough, really.

Again, refer to this chart:








Round the frequencies that are available due to a BCLK increase, down.

19 out of 30 chips boot up to ~4,133, so 63.3%. These can do 4,000-4,100 MHz stable.
Group 4,200 to 4,266 together, so 8 out of 30 chips or 26.7%. These can stabilize up to 4,133, maybe 4,200 MHz.
And lastly 4,300+ for 3 out of 30 chips, or 10%. These can stabilize up to 4,200-4,266 MHz, rarely 4,300 MHz.

That means you have a 2/3 chance of hitting a generic chip, 1/4 chance of hitting a decent chip, and 1/10 chance of hitting a golden IMC.
Hence, the maximum stable frequency on Gear 1 for most people is 4,133 MHz. Dual Rank being slightly harder.

Even if you do get a golden IMC, you need to push a high VCCSA (1.40V+) to stabilize 4,266+ MHz, which is not ideal.
Hence, 4,200 MHz is pretty much the max daily frequency no matter what.

Therefore, the DDR4 IMC is not worth the effort to bin. You're better off binning the P-cores, or waiting for someone to sell a binned IMC.


----------



## centvalny

nickolp1974 said:


> fingers crossed. I miss those days, but not the frustration!! condensation on the memory usually the cause of that but i believe the heater thing helps a lot with that which i never got to try.


Yeah the heaters for cpu and ram sockets are needed especially benching in the summer


----------



## Groove2013

@Ichirou what I would have liked is 4133 14-15-15 or 4200 14-15-15 or 15-15-15. I'm not looking for 4266, since it's then 15-16-16 or 16-16-16, which sucks.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> @Ichirou what I would have likes is 4133 14-15-15 or 4200 14-15-15 or 15-15-15. I'm not looking for 4266, since it's then 15-16-16 or 16-16-16, which sucks.


Yeah, it doesn't seem that tightening the timings on 4,266 is based on VDIMM anymore; the IMC is really getting pushed hard.
You'd really need to score with that 6.7% chance of getting an insane IMC (the one that safedisk/Carillo have) which can stabilize 14-15-15-XX at 4,300 MHz.

I've yet to test what I can achieve on 4,200 MHz, but I don't think CL14 should be difficult with this chip at the same VCCSA.
That does imply that you probably need to score a 4,200-4,300 MHz bootable chip to do the frequencies and timings that you desire, though.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> insane IMC that safedisk/Carillo have, which can stabilize 14-15-15-XX at 4,300 MHz.


Is that 32 GB or 16?


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> Is that 32 GB or 16?


Those are 2x8 GB DIMMs. 2x16 GB is a unicorn which you'd be incredibly lucky if you could stabilize with any timings at 4,300 MHz.
Realistic max stable for tightened DR (2x16 GB) kits is 4,266 MHz.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> Those are 2x8 GB DIMMs. 2x16 GB is a unicorn which you'd be incredibly lucky if you could stabilize with any timings at 4,300 MHz.
> Realistic max stable for tightened DR (2x16 GB) kits is 4,266 MHz.


4200 max, since 4266 it's then 16 instead of 15...


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> 4200 max, since 4266 it's then 16 instead of 15...


Well, I meant if we are disregarding timings. But some people may need more bandwidth, depending on their workloads.


----------



## Groove2013

I'm now measuring ns in Aida64 between my stable 4100 15-15-15, not stable 4133 14-15-15 and 4200 15-15-15.


----------



## Groove2013

@Ichirou at stable 4100 15-15-15 it's 0.6-0.7 ns slower than at unstable 4200 15-15-15.

4133 14-15-15 gives same ns as 4200 15-15-15.


----------



## fat4l

J_Lab4645 said:


> For those of you holding SP scores as gospel- Have at it!
> 
> Golden Intel Core i9-12900KS - Core i9 12th Gen Alder Lake _P-Core SP102_ 735858513289 | eBay


Well I can sell my chip sp 105 for p cores haha , 96/105/79. 











assist726 said:


> It seems that there's much more active of a 2nd hand binning market in China and there's quite a lot more listening for high SP chips at a low price than this too


Which sites are they selling it on then? I'm fishing for an uber high SP chip. Thanks


----------



## Groove2013

fat4l said:


> Which sites are they selling it on then? I'm fishing for an uber high SP chip. Thanks


Hi SP with trash or mediocre memory controller...

You pay only for P-cores SP.
E-cores and especially the IMC aren't binned.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> @Ichirou at stable 4100 15-15-15 it's 0.6-0.7 ns slower than at unstable 4200 15-15-15.
> 
> 4133 14-15-15 gives same ns as 4200 15-15-15.


Yeah, stick with 4,133 CL14. Easier on the IMC and overall better because of CL. But if it's unstable, then do 4,100 CL14.


----------



## Groove2013

@Ichirou I can make up for ns loss in Aida64 with my 4100 CL15 vs. 4200 CL15, bumping up cores/cache from 5.2/5.1 GHz to 5.4/5.3.
So it results in 41.8-42 ns.

But would still have prefered to do something like 41 ns or like 40.8 ns with 4200 CL14/15.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> Yeah, stick with 4,133 CL14. Easier on the IMC and overall better because of CL. But if it's unstable, then do 4,100 CL14.


As already said, I can only do 4100 15-15-15.
4100 *14*-15-15, 4100 15-15-*14*, 4133 *14*-15-15 or 4200 15-15-15 results in errors.

4133 14-15-15 would have been easier on the IMC while resulting in same ns as 4200 15-15-15, with slightly lower bandwidth.

But 4200 15-15-15 or who knows, maybe 14-15-15, would have provided lowest ns at the same time as highest bandwidth.

So I guess I keep this chip and buy 2-3 more KS, to see whether I spot one with better IMC and not worse, if not better, cores.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> As already said, I can only do 4100 15-15-15.
> 4100 *14*-15-15, 4100 15-15-*14*, 4133 *14*-15-15 or 4200 15-15-15 results in errors.
> 
> 4133 14-15-15 would have been easier on the IMC while resulting in same ns as 4200 15-15-15, with slightly lower bandwidth.
> 
> But 4200 15-15-15 or who knows, maybe 14-15-15, would have provided lowest ns at the same time as highest bandwidth.
> 
> So I guess I keep this chip and buy 2-3 more KS, to see whether I spot one with better IMC and not worse, if not better, cores.


That'll probably lead to disappointment or accumulated losses, but good luck.
I tried binning a few 12900Ks myself, to no avail. It's the resale that is more difficult than the actual act of binning.

This chip I have now is a KF with 99/61 P/E. The E-cores are really poor, so much so that I'd rather leave them disabled. They only make it harder to stabilize. No AVX-512.
I like the IMC though, so I'll probably stick with it after some tests with my Micron B-die kit. I might retest the E-cores once I have a good RAM overclock dialed in.


----------



## sugi0lover

This 12900KS is only SP90, but imc is strong.
7600 CL32 Geekbench~


----------



## david12900k

Just finished stability testing my daily OC:
12900KS SP 98 on Asus Apex Bios version 1403
Pcore SP: 105
Ecore SP: 85

54 P cores, 43 E cores, 43 Cache
LLC 7

5400 @ 1.2495v set in bios, 1.225v under load in HwInfo - I could go lower with this, but had to bump it up a few mV to get 43 e cores and 43 cache completely stable

V/F Offsets as Follows:
PT4: - 0.014
PT5: - 0.202
PT6: - 0.150
PT7: + 0.001

Stability Testing:
Cinebench R23: 10 runs of the 30 minute stress test back to back
OCCT: AVX2 large (4 runs of 1 hour)
Prime95avx (1 hour of small fft's)

Over-all wasnt too hard to stabilize. With e-cores at 40, I can run at 1.208v under load.
This OC will the the base of my daily OC. The next step is to start configuring OCTVB so that I can hit some higher frequencies while under light loads (gaming). My normal 12900k could do 5.5 all core in games, so im sure i can push this KS further.
I also need to start trying to OC my ram, now that I fixed the instability issue


----------



## centvalny

Groove2013 said:


> Hi SP with trash or mediocre memory controller...
> 
> You pay only for P-cores SP.
> E-cores and especially the IMC aren't binned.


Now I can say that KS imc mostly decent but to be able to scale up 7400+ ambient you need capable board and ram kit.


----------



## Ichirou

@Groove2013 Managed to pass y-cruncher with 4,266 MHz @ 14-17-15-36-2T. (Changed 1T to 2T.) 1.45V VCCSA. But TM5 failed.
Will see if I can stabilize that, as well as any semblance of stability at 4,300 MHz.

@centvalny Sadly, nobody here or even at Igor's Lab bothered to test and see what the DDR4 IMC is like on KS chips. Only DDR5. I am genuinely curious.
If most of them can boot high frequencies on DDR4, a KS might actually be a good investment, even if it doesn't have AVX-512.


----------



## Carillo

Groove2013 said:


> @Carillo What's the exact model of your RAM (4300 14-15-15) and what's the voltage you're running it at (HWiNFO reported)?


Water-cooled F4-4800C17D-16GTRG. Its a long time ago now, i actually dont remember voltages. But around 1,6 i guess.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

I have 12900KS 75 E cores and 105 on P cores. Is this worth keeping? Total SP rating 94.


----------



## david12900k

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I have 12900KS 75 E cores and 105 on P cores. Is this worth keeping? Total SP rating 94.


I would say it's worth keeping. 105 P cores is really good generally. You should test if it's a leaky chip or not. By that I mean some chips can hit high frequencies, but they draw a ton of wattage so they can be hard to cool


----------



## fpoetz

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I have 12900KS 75 E cores and 105 on P cores. Is this worth keeping? Total SP rating 94.


Hello TheNaitsyrk, I will buy a 12900KS and every bit of more performance is good for my working tasks. So if you think of selling it, I would be interested. What price you would expect?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

david12900k said:


> I would say it's worth keeping. 105 P cores is really good generally. You should test if it's a leaky chip or not. By that I mean some chips can hit high frequencies, but they draw a ton of wattage so they can be hard to cool


It's currently delidded, and it's being cooled by a dedicated loop of 4x 480mm and 1x 240mm XE rads from EK and 2x D5 pumps and LM everywhere. There is 45 Noctua Industrial 3000RPM fans hooked to 5x QC Octos, so I can defo test. Is my 105 P-Core 12900KS in top 1%?





￼


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> It's currently delidded, and it's being cooled by a dedicated loop of 4x 480mm and 1x 240mm XE rads from EK and 2x D5 pumps and LM everywhere. There is 45 Noctua Industrial 3000RPM fans hooked to 5x QC Octos, so I can defo test. Is my 105 P-Core 12900KS in top 1%?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ￼


Pretty much any KS with a P-core SP over 100+ is a keeper.
I don't think anyone here has reported in with a P-core SP of over 110+ yet.
The E-cores are whatever.

There isn't really a top 1% because the KS feels rather binary. It's either above or below 100. Good or bad.


----------



## fat4l

Yeah it's hard to say 100% if a 105 is bad or good. Looking at the number alone yes it's perfect buy one chip is different from another one. Leaky or not. That is the question. Look at der8auers KS video and compare. All his 3 chips are around the same SP but only one can do 5.3G and there even 1 with higher sp that the one that can do 5.3G but that one tops at 5.2G. Also the scaling is a problem. At 5.1G one chip is better but when you push it the cards may turn around and the chip that requires more voltage at 5.1G now requires less voltage at 5.3G etc....

I'm now waiting for my new chip from NIK to come and I'll see. He was claiming 5.5G r20 1.279V so let's see. And that is I believe 102 p cores.


----------



## david12900k

fat4l said:


> Yeah it's hard to say 100% if a 105 is bad or good. Looking at the number alone yes it's perfect buy one chip is different from another one. Leaky or not. That is the question. Look at der8auers KS video and compare. All his 3 chips are around the same SP but only one can do 5.3G and there even 1 with higher sp that the one that can do 5.3G but that one tops at 5.2G. Also the scaling is a problem. At 5.1G one chip is better but when you push it the cards may turn around and the chip that requires more voltage at 5.1G now requires less voltage at 5.3G etc....
> 
> I'm now waiting for my new chip from NIK to come and I'll see. He was claiming 5.5G r20 1.279V so let's see. And that is I believe 102 p cores.


sp far any SP p core 103+ can hit 5.4 all core if using a custom loop. From all the SP's that I have seen so far


----------



## Ichirou

fat4l said:


> Yeah it's hard to say 100% if a 105 is bad or good. Looking at the number alone yes it's perfect buy one chip is different from another one. Leaky or not. That is the question. Look at der8auers KS video and compare. All his 3 chips are around the same SP but only one can do 5.3G and there even 1 with higher sp that the one that can do 5.3G but that one tops at 5.2G. Also the scaling is a problem. At 5.1G one chip is better but when you push it the cards may turn around and the chip that requires more voltage at 5.1G now requires less voltage at 5.3G etc....
> 
> I'm now waiting for my new chip from NIK to come and I'll see. He was claiming 5.5G r20 1.279V so let's see. And that is I believe 102 p cores.


It's possible that Intel only estimated the V/F curve/VID values of the cores on the KS this time around, which leads to inaccurate SP scores on ASUS boards.
However, I'd still put a lot of faith into a high P-core SP value, as it is still something to work with. 105 is still going to be better than 95.

Not everyone here is constantly swapping chips to try to achieve 5.4-5.5 GHz all-core daily...


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> It's possible that Intel only estimated the V/F curve/VID values of the cores on the KS this time around, which leads to inaccurate SP scores on ASUS boards.
> However, I'd still put a lot of faith into a high P-core SP value, as it is still something to work with. 105 is still going to be better than 95.
> 
> Not everyone here is constantly swapping chips to try to achieve 5.4-5.5 GHz all-core daily...


I'll test it today and see how it does. From what you guys said 105 is Hella amazing for 12900KS.


----------



## fat4l

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I'll test it today and see how it does. From what you guys said 105 is Hella amazing for 12900KS.


Yeah it should be. Test and let us know 
My 96/105/79 can do 5.3g with 1.26V bios llc6 asus board, or 5.4g 1.34v bios llc6. Test this with r23 cinebench and see. This gives you some guidance. Where did you buy it from btw?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

fat4l said:


> Yeah it should be. Test and let us know
> My 96/105/79 can do 5.3g with 1.26V bios llc6 asus board, or 5.4g 1.34v bios llc6. Test this with r23 cinebench and see. This gives you some guidance. Where did you buy it from btw?


Scan.co.uk


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I'll test it today and see how it does. From what you guys said 105 is Hella amazing for 12900KS.


Yeah, the KS is an easier chip for consumers to bin due to the higher likelihood of getting a good chip. The only disadvantage is that it does not have AVX-512 support.
The chip makes up for that with better E-cores overall, though.

Arguably, a better golden chip to have would be a K/KF with a P-core SP of 110+ and AVX-512 support. Ramp up the Cache for strong P-core performance.
But depending on how one sees it, AVX-512 might not be as useful as having E-cores.

It all depends on use-case. With the E-cores enabled, the Cache can't be clocked as high as it gets unstable earlier.


----------



## david12900k

Ichirou said:


> Yeah, the KS is an easier chip for consumers to bin due to the higher likelihood of getting a good chip. The only disadvantage is that it does not have AVX-512 support.
> The chip makes up for that with better E-cores overall, though.
> 
> Arguably, a better golden chip to have would be a K/KF with a P-core SP of 110+ and AVX-512 support. Ramp up the Cache for strong P-core performance.
> But depending on how one sees it, AVX-512 might not be as useful as having E-cores.
> 
> It all depends on use-case. With the E-cores enabled, the Cache can't be clocked as high as it gets unstable earlier.


Yeah, at 54 p cores/ 43 e cores at 1.225v load, I can only clock my cache to 44. 45 is unstable. I think I could up the voltage but I don't see a point trading temps for 100 Mhz cache


----------



## Ichirou

david12900k said:


> Yeah, at 54 p cores/ 43 e cores at 1.225v load, I can only clock my cache to 44. 45 is unstable. I think I could up the voltage but I don't see a point trading temps for 100 Mhz cache


It boils down to the decade-old argument of whether or not you are a gamer, really.

Games don't use as many cores, so even if you have a ton of them, many are just parked. In the case of the 12th Gen, that would be the E-cores (and maybe up to two P-cores?).
Hence (assuming the P-cores are clocked the same), having a higher cache (and perhaps AVX-512) will lead to higher performance.

Generations differ, but you can expect a 300-500 MHz increase in cache to translate to an extra 100 MHz in core performance.
So somebody with a 47-49x set for their cache would have performance that's more like 55x on their P-cores compared to your config, with significantly less heat (and issues with stability).


----------



## david12900k

Ichirou said:


> It boils down to the decade-old argument of whether or not you are a gamer, really.
> 
> Games don't use as many cores, so even if you have a ton of them, many are just parked. In the case of the 12th Gen, that would be the E-cores (and maybe up to two P-cores?).
> Hence (assuming the P-cores are clocked the same), having a higher cache (and perhaps AVX-512) will lead to higher performance.
> 
> Generations differ, but you can expect a 300-500 MHz increase in cache to translate to an extra 100 MHz in core performance.
> So somebody with a 47-49x set for their cache would have performance that's more like 55x on their P-cores compared to your config, with significantly less heat (and issues with stability).


The issue is OCTVB, where I can clock my cores to 55 or even 56 all core if the temp is under 70c. So saving some temp for slightly slower cache may help significantly


----------



## Ichirou

david12900k said:


> The issue is OCTVB, where I can clock my cores to 55 or even 56 all core if the temp is under 70c. So saving some temp for slightly slower cache may help significantly


I'm pretty sure the E-cores produce much more heat than the cache does...

Not too many games use more than six cores right now (except really modern ones), so in theory, one potentially strong config would be to kill off the E-cores, two weakest P-cores, and clock the other P-cores and the cache as high as possible. It wouldn't need as much Vcore and it wouldn't produce a ton of heat.

Couple it with an insanely good RAM setup, and that'll push performance even higher.


----------



## david12900k

david12900k said:


> The issue is OCTVB, where I can clock my cores to 55 or even 56 all core if the temp is under 70c. So saving some temp for slightly slower cache may help significantly


For my use case (warzone) it seems like having e cores enabled produces better performance.


----------



## Ichirou

david12900k said:


> For my use case (warzone) it seems like having e cores enabled produces better performance.


Warzone is one of the few games that use a lot of cores, so it makes sense. But if you play more than just one game, it would no longer be true overall.

I can only speak in general, not for specific games. And of course, if one is running a workstation, more cores would likely be better.


----------



## LazyGamer

david12900k said:


> For my use case (warzone) it seems like having e cores enabled produces better performance.


COD should run on a potato... like Counter-Strike but with better textures.

(j/k, never did get alone with COD, I'm from the Battlefield branch of gaming)

Still, surprising to see an advantage there!


----------



## Nikster

My good 12900Ks run easy r20 5,58 @1,35v with watercooling 



sp 94


----------



## fat4l

Nikster said:


> My good 12900Ks run easy r20 5,58 @1,35v with watercooling
> 
> 
> 
> sp 94


Welcome on these forums NIK  good chip that one too


----------



## Huseyinbaykal

Which one you guys prefer? 98sp 107p 81e KF or 89sp 97p 75e KS? Which one should be keeper?


----------



## SuperMumrik

Huseyinbaykal said:


> Which one you guys prefer? 98sp 107p 81e KF or 89sp 97p 75e KS? Which one should be keeper?


They will perform within 100Mhz of each other. I would take the one with the strongest IMC


----------



## J_Lab4645

david12900k said:


> The issue is OCTVB, where I can clock my cores to 55 or even 56 all core if the temp is under 70c. So saving some temp for slightly slower cache may help significantly



david12900k- You absolutely need to put that chip on Ebay for $5K. I had no idea how many benchmark queens are out there. I put up my i9-12900k P99,E70 and got $600 back. I used it for 5 months and broke even! After binning 4 KS's I returned 3 for full refund but kept the 2nd to the worst SP 86 and my temps are 8C cooler running P53,E40 than my stock K at P51,E38. Lots of people wanting max SP ratings. Get it while the gettings good. Sell that to the idiot benchmark Queens and profit! This won't last.


----------



## Ichirou

J_Lab4645 said:


> david12900k- You absolutely need to put that chip on Ebay for $5K. I had no idea how many benchmark queens are out there. I put up my i9-12900k P99,E70 and got $600 back. I used it for 5 months and broke even! After binning 4 KS's I returned 3 for full refund but kept the 2nd to the worst SP 86 and my temps are 8C cooler running P53,E40 than my stock K at P51,E38. Lots of people wanting max SP ratings. Get it while the gettings good. Sell that to the idiot benchmark Queens and profit! This won't last.


How do you sell it on eBay, factoring in all of the fees and commissions eBay charges? What did you sell that 12900K for?


----------



## david12900k

J_Lab4645 said:


> david12900k- You absolutely need to put that chip on Ebay for $5K. I had no idea how many benchmark queens are out there. I put up my i9-12900k P99,E70 and got $600 back. I used it for 5 months and broke even! After binning 4 KS's I returned 3 for full refund but kept the 2nd to the worst SP 86 and my temps are 8C cooler running P53,E40 than my stock K at P51,E38. Lots of people wanting max SP ratings. Get it while the gettings good. Sell that to the idiot benchmark Queens and profit! This won't last.


I would but I kind of like having an overkill chip myself even though I'm just using it for gaming. It's the process of refining an overclock that I like.


----------



## Ichirou

david12900k said:


> I would but I kind of like having an overkill chip myself even though I'm just using it for gaming. It's the process of refining an overclock that I like.


At this point, I'm genuinely curious what Raptor Lake is like.
If it ends up being a better version of the KS with a better IMC, so many people are gonna flip, lol.


----------



## david12900k

Ichirou said:


> At this point, I'm genuinely curious what Raptor Lake is like.
> If it ends up being a better version of the KS with a better IMC, so many people are gonna flip, lol.


Honestly just watching Intel innovate after way too much time on 14nm is so fun to watch. Im very excited for the next 1-3 years. Raptor lake is rumored to hit 58 on 1-2 cores and there was a very loose rumor (probably not confirmed) that it may be able to hit 54 all core due to an enhanced power delivery system which is more efficient.

Found the power delivery leak. Intel Raptor Lake's Digital Linear Voltage Regulator (DLVR) could reduce CPU power up to 25% - VideoCardz.com
Basically 7% performance bump for 21% lower voltage. Imagine running everything at -160mV. Then add in a new P core with higher IMC and a better solution for E core power delivery and we are going to have a beast of a chip


----------



## WebsterRKL

Ichirou said:


> At this point, I'm genuinely curious what Raptor Lake is like.
> If it ends up being a better version of the KS with a better IMC, so many people are gonna flip, lol.


YUPPS. I'm awaiting the great and glorious Raptor Lake also, improved IMC for certain. 

I need 8000MHz CL32 for my work build lol. 

just kidding...










D5 pump house is external and 'round back like an outhouse.  lolol


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Some initial testing.
Memory: 6600 CL32 will drop lower.
E cores: 43x
P cores: 57, 57, 55, 55, 55, 55, 55, 54 (I can get last one to 55 for sure) some cores will go up to 56.

Temps are high because I applied LM like crap will change for Kyronaut Extreme to see if it gets better. Voltages are only 1.32V for everything.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Some initial testing.
> Memory: 6600 CL32 will drop lower.
> E cores: 43x
> P cores: 57, 57, 55, 55, 55, 55, 55, 54 (I can get last one to 55 for sure) some cores will go up to 56.
> 
> Temps are high because I applied LM like crap will change for Kyronaut Extreme to see if it gets better. Voltages are only 1.32V for everything.
> View attachment 2557709


Very good chip. That's a keeper.


----------



## fat4l

Btw for those who wonder how sp rating is calculated its 
SP= (P.SP X 2 + E.SP)/3


----------



## DSHG87

DSHG87 said:


> My 12900K*S* @ stock takes (IDLE) up tp 1.43V (Vcore, HWiNFO). Singlecore 5,5Ghz 1.39V and Allcore 5,2GHz 1,29V. ASUS TUF Z690 PLUS D4 with 1404 BIOS. (VID after installing CPU und loaded defaults was 1,341V @ 5200MHz.
> 
> What do you think, voltages are okay? Binning good or bad? Boxed-CPU Batch V150.


I quote myself now.

Today I am getting an other KS. What do you think; change my working KS or not?


----------



## affxct

How do you guys think an SP 96 (P 106, E 78) 12900K compares to an average KS? More or less equal right?


----------



## Ketku-

affxct said:


> How do you guys think an SP 96 (P 106, E 78) 12900K compares to an average KS? More or less equal right?


I think atleast half 12900KS tray or boxed are bad than you K.. i don't think it makes sense to buy KS.


----------



## affxct

Ketku- said:


> I think atleast half 12900KS tray or boxed are bad than you K.. i don't think it makes sense to buy KS.


Ahh interesting. I definitely wasn't planning to buy one (they aren't for sale here anyway), I'm waiting for this one in shipping because I traded my old 12900K and a bit of cash for this. I watched the FrameChasers video and Der8auer's. It's kinda hard to gauge how the SP ratings transfer between the two. It seems as though KS owners have been getting sick results. Not sure what to expect from this one tbh.


----------



## Ketku-

affxct said:


> Ahh interesting. I definitely wasn't planning to buy one (they aren't for sale here anyway), I'm waiting for this one in shipping because I traded my old 12900K and a bit of cash for this. I watched the FrameChasers video and Der8auer's. It's kinda hard to gauge how the SP ratings transfer between the two. It seems as though KS owners have been getting sick results. Not sure what to expect from this one tbh.


Der8auer was little disappointed to KS, he "binned" K was better than KS.. Here in finland have much KS stock, but only few buyer.. 
All know that is not so good, if own average K then not good idea buy KS. This way i think


----------



## sugi0lover

affxct said:


> How do you guys think an SP 96 (P 106, E 78) 12900K compares to an average KS? More or less equal right?


You can get some ideas from the article below. I see many people in Korean PC forum experience the same as the article says.








Intel’s finest crowbar selection - Core i9-12900KS binning and OC comparison with 12900K/KF | igor'sLAB


The Intel Core i9-12900KS has been on the market for a few weeks now and is, at least on paper, actually just an even more highly selected variant of the i9-12900K with a slightly higher clock and…




www.igorslab.de


----------



## warbucks

Ichirou said:


> At this point, I'm genuinely curious what Raptor Lake is like.
> If it ends up being a better version of the KS with a better IMC, so many people are gonna flip, lol.


Why would they flip? Folks buying this stuff know there is always something new right around the corner.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Fellas. After delid it's running much hotter than before, even at stock it gets to 95c. Before delid it was 65-70, no idea what I am doing wrong. Got the custom IHS etc


----------



## fat4l

sugi0lover said:


> You can get some ideas from the article below. I see many people in Korean PC forum experience the same as the article says.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel’s finest crowbar selection - Core i9-12900KS binning and OC comparison with 12900K/KF | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> The Intel Core i9-12900KS has been on the market for a few weeks now and is, at least on paper, actually just an even more highly selected variant of the i9-12900K with a slightly higher clock and…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de


And what kind of chips are pll in Korea finding? Is there any forums like this one?


----------



## fat4l

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Fellas. After delid it's running much hotter than before, even at stock it gets to 95c. Before delid it was 65-70, no idea what I am doing wrong. Got the custom IHS etc


What custom ihs? Probably bad contact mate


----------



## sugi0lover

fat4l said:


> And what kind of chips are pll in Korea finding? Is there any forums like this one?


12900KS, 
The forum language is Korean. Some good OC results I posted here were brought from there.
Anyway, here is the link.
쿨엔조이,쿨앤조이 coolenjoy, cooln, 쿨엔, 검은동네


----------



## Dinnzy

My local Micro center just got 15 more in stock today! On Monday I’m going to delid my SP 98 p core regular K and hopefully that will be better then my KS and I’ll return that and then wait for raptor lake 🙃


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

fat4l said:


> What custom ihs? Probably bad contact mate


Checked the contact and it's fine.

It's so weird. Even if I drop voltage to 1.25V temps stay the same.


----------



## Ichirou

If the goal is to bin chips at this point in time, it is not worth binning the K's. Most of the good K's are being reserved for the KS's.
Hence, you should be binning the KS's. However, if that is too expensive, bin the KF's instead. They are not being used for the KS's.

Overall, from what I've observed, even though the likelihood of getting a good chip is better on the KS, it is still not amazing.
Unless you have a feasible method of parting with your chips if they don't turn out to be good, you shouldn't be binning.
Instead, wait for Raptor Lake for at least some guaranteed minimum standard in terms of both core and IMC quality.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Found the problem.

Motherboard was running the CPU at 1.45V. had to change it in BIOS, not even XTU could override. It was touching 95c but not quite throttling impressive.


----------



## fat4l

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Found the problem.
> 
> Motherboard was running the CPU at 1.45V. had to change it in BIOS, not even XTU could override. It was touching 95c but not quite throttling impressive.


Oh wow haha. Any results from dekid then?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

fat4l said:


> Oh wow haha. Any results from dekid then?


Not sure yet. I give the CPU 1.45V in BIOS via VRM setting and it refuses to do 5.4 all core now whereas it did 5.7 on 2 cores 5.5 on 4 and 54 in 2 before.

Need to investigate more.

Washer mod helped with temps as well because I was trial and erroring it so I'll do it again. I'm not on thermal goop so I'll swap it for LM shortly.


----------



## Nikster

Ks is better then K, better binning and imc


----------



## Ketku-

Nikster said:


> Ks is better then Ks, better binning and imc


What you mean?  KS to KS?

Its not worth upgrade average 12900K to 12900KS


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Its weird with Apex the voltage always drop from what you set in bios but with EVGA, I dont know why voltage goes up from what I set in bios sometimes.


----------



## Ichirou

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Its weird with Apex the voltage always drop from what you set in bios but with EVGA, I dont know why voltage goes up from what I set in bios sometimes.


Different motherboards and BIOS handles voltages differently.
You mitigate Vdroop/overshoot by adjusting LLC.


----------



## acoustic

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Its weird with Apex the voltage always drop from what you set in bios but with EVGA, I dont know why voltage goes up from what I set in bios sometimes.


Sounds like too high LLC? I'm assuming you have manual set AC_LL/DC_LL?


----------



## Ketku-

I have been trying to think and justify to myself why I would buy 12900KS even though I have a good 12900K. There is no point in that exchange.

Because that 12900KS can't be found / used in my own use, even though I do Overclocking.


----------



## jomama22

Ichirou said:


> Pretty much any KS with a P-core SP over 100+ is a keeper.
> I don't think anyone here has reported in with a P-core SP of over 110+ yet.
> The E-cores are whatever.
> 
> There isn't really a top 1% because the KS feels rather binary. It's either above or below 100. Good or bad.


Lol no. 97 p-core chilli have happily runs [email protected] 1.35v and 5.5 @ 1.3.

Sp genuinely means very little. there are others with higher p-core who can't run 5.5...


----------



## Ichirou

jomama22 said:


> Lol no. 97 p-core chilli have happily runs [email protected] 1.35v and 5.5 @ 1.3.
> 
> Sp genuinely means very little. there are others with higher p-core who can't run 5.5...


There are some inconsistent readings among the KS chips compared to the K/KF chips from what people have found.
It's probably because of Intel quickly estimating the V/F curves/VIDs and generalizing them.
It's still going to be a better bet to get a chip that is over 100 than under. Not that you shouldn't test the chips out regardless.


----------



## LazyGamer

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Found the problem.
> 
> Motherboard was running the CPU at 1.45V. had to change it in BIOS, not even XTU could override. It was touching 95c but not quite throttling impressive.


XTU is a mess when it comes to dialing in an overclock - really for more than anything other than initial exploration.

(and make sure that you use CPU-Z for voltage - XTU rather stupidly only reads VID)


----------



## Ketku-

I want see how many K or KS can pass Linpack Extreme 5.3-5.5 with tight timings memory settings. Not many  When Linpack pass residuals, then can say its stable not Cinebench....


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Ketku- said:


> I want see how many K or KS can pass Linpack Extreme 5.3-5.5 with tight timings memory settings. Not many  When Linpack pass residuals, then can say its stable not Cinebench....


Even direct die almost get toasted in linx at 5.3ghz.


----------



## J_Lab4645

Ichirou said:


> How do you sell it on eBay, factoring in all of the fees and commissions eBay charges? What did you sell that 12900K for?



After Ebay fees, got $550 back. Paid $575 for the chip in Dec 2021 and beat it to hell. The Pcores could clock to x53 but wasn't stable in anything but CB_R23. The IMC was average as I would have intermittent memory errors unless memory was clocked below 6000mhz. Could easily clock 2 cores to x57 but best AVX/AVX2 on that chip was P51E38 for full stability. What I keep barking is that SP alone doesn't mean you have a "golden" chip. It just means your VID table to achieve certain clocks are lower. But as anyone who has binned several K's or KS's this doesn't necessarily mean "better". Aren't we all going for "highest" clocks with "lowest" temperatures? I've had chips that used more V. for the best clocks but temps were lower. Some of these "high" SP chips can clock to the moon, (but at what cost)? The temps to achieve the high clocks can be unacceptable. If some of you out there have high SP chips and are achieving high clocks (albeit with lower temps) then consider yourself 'lotto' winners. ALSO.......if you go ahead and blindly buy high SP without testing.....you could get an absolutely "crap" IMC with that highly binned chip. Is it still worth it? Only the buyer can so say.


----------



## J_Lab4645

david12900k said:


> I would but I kind of like having an overkill chip myself even though I'm just using it for gaming. It's the process of refining an overclock that I like.



I get it, but even Johnny Depp is suffering the consequences of having a "Queen" that ends up not being worth it over time. 

I apologize, but this is just coming from my Ex-stockbroker days when I would insist on a client selling a particular asset when the "gettin's good" , only to have them tell me "hell no" and then watch the asset fall 50% in the next year or so and then I sold their holdings at a loss. We all have what we hold dear. Its only you to decide.


----------



## david12900k

J_Lab4645 said:


> I get it, but even Johnny Depp is suffering the consequences of having a "Queen" that ends up not being worth it over time.
> 
> I apologize, but this is just coming from my Ex-stockbroker days when I would insist on a client selling a particular asset when the "gettin's good" , only to have them tell me "hell no" and then watch the asset fall 50% in the next year or so and then I sold their holdings at a loss. We all have what we hold dear. Its only you to decide.


That really only matters if the cost justified it. I really don't need the extra $$$ that badly


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

My dudes does the copper IHS from Rockitcool fit 12900KS? I cleaned indium from it and used it as "custom IHS" and temps went down 25c and is no longer throttling.

I reapplied that copper IHS maybe 10 times and no luck... The stock IHS seems to be fine though


----------



## sippo

Ketku- said:


> I want see how many K or KS can pass Linpack Extreme 5.3-5.5 with tight timings memory settings. Not many  When Linpack pass residuals, then can say its stable not Cinebench....


What settings for linpack to be sure that is stable?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

sippo said:


> What settings for linpack to be sure that is stable?


Does not matter. At least 10 runs and all residuals must be the same.


----------



## sippo

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Does not matter. At least 10 runs and all residuals must be the same.


----------



## sippo

sippo said:


> View attachment 2557883


I think settings are important


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

sippo said:


> View attachment 2557883


What cpu is that?if 12900k Why gflop is too low for 5.4?


----------



## sippo

Thanh Nguyen said:


> What cpu is that?if 12900k Why gflop is too low for 5.4?


used settings for 2gb, on 8gb is going to 600 but one test takes about 30sec

12900k


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Some results:
Haven't touched cache overclocking yet hence why multi score is bit low but is this good otherwise?
2 cores: 5.8Ghz
1 core: 5.7Ghz
3 cores: 5.6Ghz
1 core 5.5Ghz
1 core 5.4Ghz
Then all E-Cores 4.4 except for last one which is 4.3 nothing will push that one to 4.4.

RAM is 6800 CL30, 38, 38, 42 T2 1.5V.

Temps don't go past 75c on any core.
Running 5x 480mm XE rads with all slots taken by 3000RPM Noctua fans and 2x D5 pumps and 5L of coolant


----------



## fat4l

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Some results:
> Haven't touched cache overclocking yet hence why multi score is bit low but is this good otherwise?
> 2 cores: 5.8Ghz
> 1 core: 5.7Ghz
> 3 cores: 5.6Ghz
> 1 core 5.5Ghz
> 1 core 5.4Ghz
> Then all E-Cores 4.4 except for last one which is 4.3 nothing will push that one to 4.4.
> 
> RAM is 6800 CL30, 38, 38, 42 T2 1.5V.
> 
> Temps don't go past 75c on any core.
> Running 5x 480mm XE rads with all slots taken by 3000RPM Noctua fans and 2x D5 pumps and 5L of coolant
> 
> View attachment 2557894
> 
> View attachment 2557896
> View attachment 2557897
> 
> View attachment 2557895


And how did you approach which core to clock the highest etc and how did you test it and did you set all core voltages manually or just on eset voltage?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

fat4l said:


> And how did you approach which core to clock the highest etc and how did you test it and did you set all core voltages manually or just on eset voltage?


Trial and error, all use same voltage, I could refine it a little better in BIOS this is just using XTU but voltage is like 1.41V. Once I figure out highest each clock OC I will then start taking care of Cache / Ring or whatever that is called. Still learning.


----------



## david12900k

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Some results:
> Haven't touched cache overclocking yet hence why multi score is bit low but is this good otherwise?
> 2 cores: 5.8Ghz
> 1 core: 5.7Ghz
> 3 cores: 5.6Ghz
> 1 core 5.5Ghz
> 1 core 5.4Ghz
> Then all E-Cores 4.4 except for last one which is 4.3 nothing will push that one to 4.4.
> 
> RAM is 6800 CL30, 38, 38, 42 T2 1.5V.
> 
> Temps don't go past 75c on any core.
> Running 5x 480mm XE rads with all slots taken by 3000RPM Noctua fans and 2x D5 pumps and 5L of coolant
> 
> View attachment 2557894
> 
> View attachment 2557896
> View attachment 2557897
> 
> View attachment 2557895


Thats an amazing chip. What voltages are you running for this?


----------



## acoustic

TheNaitsyrk said:


> My dudes does the copper IHS from Rockitcool fit 12900KS? I cleaned indium from it and used it as "custom IHS" and temps went down 25c and is no longer throttling.
> 
> I reapplied that copper IHS maybe 10 times and no luck... The stock IHS seems to be fine though


The Die is the same on the 12900KS, so no reason the Copper IHS shouldn't benefit. I have the Copper IHS on my 12700K and it worked great. I'm not sure what could be causing such poor results, especially if the stock IHS works fine. I'm assuming you've cleaned the glue off the chip as much as possible for a clean surface?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

david12900k said:


> Thats an amazing chip. What voltages are you running for this?


1.41V I think in BIOS it's set to 1.475V but it's lower otherwise its weird this gen where you set it in BIOS at supposedly large voltage but it's much lower in OS. Still lots of tweaking to do.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

acoustic said:


> The Die is the same on the 12900KS, so no reason the Copper IHS shouldn't benefit. I have the Copper IHS on my 12700K and it worked great. I'm not sure what could be causing such poor results, especially if the stock IHS works fine. I'm assuming you've cleaned the glue off the chip as much as possible for a clean surface?


I did. I reapplied it so many times it's crazy. I might need to sand down the rim a bit to get it to fit better or something...


----------



## Ichirou

J_Lab4645 said:


> After Ebay fees, got $550 back. Paid $575 for the chip in Dec 2021 and beat it to hell. The Pcores could clock to x53 but wasn't stable in anything but CB_R23. The IMC was average as I would have intermittent memory errors unless memory was clocked below 6000mhz. Could easily clock 2 cores to x57 but best AVX/AVX2 on that chip was P51E38 for full stability. What I keep barking is that SP alone doesn't mean you have a "golden" chip. It just means your VID table to achieve certain clocks are lower. But as anyone who has binned several K's or KS's this doesn't necessarily mean "better". Aren't we all going for "highest" clocks with "lowest" temperatures? I've had chips that used more V. for the best clocks but temps were lower. Some of these "high" SP chips can clock to the moon, (but at what cost)? The temps to achieve the high clocks can be unacceptable. If some of you out there have high SP chips and are achieving high clocks (albeit with lower temps) then consider yourself 'lotto' winners. ALSO.......if you go ahead and blindly buy high SP without testing.....you could get an absolutely "crap" IMC with that highly binned chip. Is it still worth it? Only the buyer can so say.


Oh, so you essentially sold your bad chips for a little loss on eBay then. I suppose I should try that as well, since I have one sitting around collecting dust.


----------



## acoustic

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I did. I reapplied it so many times it's crazy. I might need to sand down the rim a bit to get it to fit better or something...


I'm not sure. I have never had a bad product from RockItCool, but there is always potential the Copper IHS you received is defective in some way.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Trial and error, all use same voltage, I could refine it a little better in BIOS this is just using XTU but voltage is like 1.41V. Once I figure out highest each clock OC I will then start taking care of Cache / Ring or whatever that is called. Still learning.


You won the lottery for the chip itself; all that's left is figuring out the IMC, which is separately binned. Most people can't even get more than 55-56x on individual cores.
Cache isn't rocket science. You just raise it until it's unstable. Try for at least 40x.


----------



## david12900k

TheNaitsyrk said:


> 1.41V I think in BIOS it's set to 1.475V but it's lower otherwise its weird this gen where you set it in BIOS at supposedly large voltage but it's much lower in OS. Still lots of tweaking to do.


How do you manage to cool that? I run at 1.36v and the thermals are crazy and im using a custom loop


----------



## Ichirou

I've just been informed by an internal source (of whom I cannot name) that Intel designates specific batches to issue to each company (and perhaps even store/city/state/country/etc.) for recordkeeping and warranty purposes. That means that unless returns and exchanges are handled locally by the retailer you buy your chip from (i.e. if they RMA directly with Intel and don't just exchange it on the spot), they actually _cannot_ accept your chip if it is not a designated batch of their company's.

What this means is that if you are still binning chips, it may be helpful to stick with companies and/or stores that others have successfully binned high end chips from. And for those who do have a high end chip, it will be helpful for you to share exactly where you bought yours from.

Of course, since there are obviously thousands of batches, it's still going to be a lottery in the end, but it may be possible to find a pattern for which stores do and do not offer golden chips, in case Intel has done some sort of deliberate cherry picking for customers of specific companies.

(In other news, that same source personally swapped out a 12900K X202 chip for me, so I am going to see what it can do.)


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

david12900k said:


> How do you manage to cool that? I run at 1.36v and the thermals are crazy and im using a custom loop


Your loop is very weak, my one is open air and massive:


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> You won the lottery for the chip itself; all that's left is figuring out the IMC, which is separately binned. Most people can't even get more than 55-56x on individual cores.
> Cache isn't rocket science. You just raise it until it's unstable. Try for at least 40x.


Do I need to raise cache voltage or something like that?


----------



## david12900k

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Your loop is very weak, my one is open air and massive:
> View attachment 2557916


Im running a MO-RA3 420 and a 480mm rad


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

david12900k said:


> Im running a MO-RA3 420 and a 480mm rad


That's weak imo. How many L of liquid and fans you have? My surface area is: 2160mm and that's just for the CPU and it also has two pumps. GPU has the exact same loop but separate.
420 MORA and 480mm rad is 1740mm and I assume you have GPU in that loop and just one D5 pump right? What fans and block are you using? I have Optimus Signature V2 Full Metal block that's lapped for max flatness as well and CPU is delidded and polished.

So yeah not so weak but your flow may be low and you probably introduce heat to the loop by having all hooked up to just one loop and / or your CPU block is not flat and is not good at cooling like the Velocity series.


----------



## david12900k

TheNaitsyrk said:


> That's weak imo. How many L of liquid and fans you have? My surface area is: 2160mm and that's just for the CPU and it also has two pumps. GPU has the exact same loop but separate.
> 420 MORA and 480mm rad is 1740mm and I assume you have GPU in that loop and just one D5 pump right? What fans and block are you using? I have Optimus Signature V2 Full Metal block that's lapped for max flatness as well and CPU is delidded and polished.
> 
> So yeah not so weak but your flow may be low and you probably introduce heat to the loop by having all hooked up to just one loop and / or your CPU block is not flat and is not good at cooling like the Velocity series.


Nope, thats CPU only. So its 1740mm with 3x D5 pumps and i think its around 1.9L. MO-RA3 uses 8xNoctua 200mm fans and im using the EK Velocity2. Nothing is lapped, but i have pretty great flow


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Your loop is very weak, my one is open air and massive:
> View attachment 2557916


Man your pc is ugly as F.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Man your pc is ugly as F.


I like it, each to their own. It cooled 10980XE 5.1Ghz all core OC whilst it was eating 650W with ease. It's an open bench change stuff on the fly and quick connects.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Do I need to raise cache voltage or something like that?


The P-cores, E-cores, and Cache all share the same Vcore, so aside from temps (or IMC instability), there is no reason not to max out all of them.
Just raise the Cache clock gradually until your stress tests become unstable, and dial it back down. That's all you really need to do.
With a golden chip like yours, it should reach at least 43-45x easy, even with the E-cores on.


----------



## david12900k

Ichirou said:


> The P-cores, E-cores, and Cache all share the same Vcore, so aside from temps (or IMC instability), there is no reason not to max out all of them.
> Just raise the Cache clock gradually until your stress tests become unstable, and dial it back down. That's all you really need to do.
> With a golden chip like yours, it should reach at least 43-45x easy, even with the E-cores on.


Can confirm. I'm able to hit 44 cache with 1.217v under load


----------



## acoustic

What did I just read lmao


----------



## Ketku-

sippo said:


> What settings for linpack to be sure that is stable?


6-8gb and 10run atleast, AlderLake going tight timings memory 800+ gflops thats for sure.  Because my 10900K 5.1/4.8 was 660gflops.

I think many AlderLake stay 5.1-5.2ghz max Linpack Extreme stable. Cinebench stable can get easy anyone  when i get my memory water parts and start OC again, then i put my AlderLake Linpack Extreme stable as always my computer is that program stable + Tm5 Extreme.


----------



## Med

Nikster said:


> My good 12900Ks run easy r20 5,58 @1,35v with watercooling
> 
> 
> 
> sp 94


What temperatures look like?


----------



## Ketku-

sippo said:


> View attachment 2557883


So you can see, Package Watt goes so high -> you temps are pretty high few core. When you add more memory, then i can say byebye wont go stable 

LinX / Linpack Extreme are the heaviest Stable Test what i know. Thats why only maybe few can pass it 5.3ghz with tight memory settings. Next question is how many need them? It’s up to the person to do what the machine wants to do. If you’re just playing and browsing the web, then you hardly need to be Linpack Extreme stable.

The stable machine of the Cinebench works just fine, I don't underestimate it, but it only allows higher watches to be put on. Personally, I've always liked to keep my lineup Linpack Extreme + Tm5 Extreme stable. In reality, I’m certainly not going to strain the lineup as much as those programs do, I’m the ones who play but use it normally. So for myself, the stability of Cinebech would also suffice.


----------



## Ichirou

@Groove2013
Tested a RAM kit with a better binned tRCD.
~4,266 MHz @ 15-16-15-35-1T and tight subtimings passes with flying colours at 1.45V VCCSA.
(My poorer binned RAM kit can achieve nearly the same results, but tRCD must be 17 instead of 16.)

With 1.40V VCCSA and VDDQ on Auto, I can run 14-16-15-35-2T stable at 4,200 MHz.
At 4,266 MHz, CL14 can't get stable in TM5 no matter what. y-cruncher is fine, though.

4,300 MHz is not stable in any way due to IMC weakness. Doesn't matter how loose I make the timings, even at 1.50V VCCSA.


----------



## nickolp1974

TheNaitsyrk said:


> My dudes does the copper IHS from Rockitcool fit 12900KS? I cleaned indium from it and used it as "custom IHS" and temps went down 25c and is no longer throttling.
> 
> I reapplied that copper IHS maybe 10 times and no luck... The stock IHS seems to be fine


there defo different, im sure mine causes issues. what i did notice, if you dont put any TIM on the die the copper ihs will spin quite freely where as the stock one will not. Im yet to test stock ihs with LM as only just got some more.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

david12900k said:


> Nope, thats CPU only. So its 1740mm with 3x D5 pumps and i think its around 1.9L. MO-RA3 uses 8xNoctua 200mm fans and im using the EK Velocity2. Nothing is lapped, but i have pretty great flow


You are using a moboblock? That's why it's hot.


----------



## Groove2013

Can someone tell me which slot is better for testing one RAM stick individually at a time, A or B?

Thx


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> Can someone tell me which slot is better for testing one RAM stick individually at a time, A or B?
> 
> Thx


No way to know because memory slots are individually binned.
But the two primary slots will (most likely) be the strongest on any motherboard.

On a side note, as a minor update to my previous testing: 14-16-15-35-*1T *is stable on 4,200 MHz at 1.40V VCCSA.
Still tightening further.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> No way to know because memory slots are individually binned.
> But the two primary slots will (most likely) be the strongest on any motherboard.
> 
> On a side note, as a minor update to my previous testing: 14-16-15-35-*1T *is stable on 4,200 MHz at 1.40V VCCSA.
> Still tightening further.


@bscool tested slot A2 and B2 on my Strix D4 and slot A2 can't boot more than 4200 MHz, while slot B2 can boot 4300 MHz, with same stick.

Could buying another Strix D4 potentially help in that regard?
Since @bscool Strix D4 boots 4300 MHz both sticks no problem.
Ok, booting both sticks can be IMC.
But only booting (not stable) still only one and same stick should work at same frequency?
Or it can alao be IMC weakness on that specific channel?

I can't even boot more than 4266 MHz gear 2 with both sticks.


----------



## Nikster

R23 5,[email protected],28v 



P core 103 e cores 78

For sell 🙃


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Nikster said:


> R23 5,[email protected],28v
> 
> 
> 
> P core 103 e cores 78
> 
> For sell 🙃


Can u do with 30c water instead of your magic water?


----------



## Nikster

Maybe then 1,3v core, but with 25c run easy


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

fat4l said:


> So how many ppl in here can actually run CB20 at 5.5g with all ecores enabled?


 I can run this all day long if were using Cinebench as a proxy for stability. 5.5 GHz p cores with 4.4 GHz e cores @1.33V set that droops to 1.296V die sense voltage. Hottest core at 90C in an 18C ambient room. Stock IHS with an Optimus Signature V2 block and KPX paste.


----------



## Groove2013

AIDA64 receives preliminary support for Alder Lake-X HEDT/Xeon CPUs - VideoCardz.com


Intel rumored to launch Alder Lake-X series Release notes for the upcoming AIDA64 Extreme Beta suggest Intel might be developing a new X-Series CPUs. There are still more question than answers about Intel’s upcoming Intel HEDT platform. Officially, Intel has not mentioned its Sapphire Rapids-X...




videocardz.com


----------



## fat4l

Nikster said:


> R23 5,[email protected],28v
> 
> 
> 
> P core 103 e cores 78
> 
> For sell 🙃


R20 the same 1.279v?

also, you tried something like this:

2 cores: 5.8Ghz
2 cores: 5.7Ghz
2 cores: 5.6Ghz
2 cores: 5.5Ghz
?


----------



## Nikster

fat4l said:


> R20 the same 1.279v?
> 
> also, you tried something like this:
> 
> 2 cores: 5.8Ghz
> 2 cores: 5.7Ghz
> 2 cores: 5.6Ghz
> 2 cores: 5.5Ghz
> ?


Allcore 5,5


----------



## Groove2013

Groove2013 said:


> AIDA64 receives preliminary support for Alder Lake-X HEDT/Xeon CPUs - VideoCardz.com
> 
> 
> Intel rumored to launch Alder Lake-X series Release notes for the upcoming AIDA64 Extreme Beta suggest Intel might be developing a new X-Series CPUs. There are still more question than answers about Intel’s upcoming Intel HEDT platform. Officially, Intel has not mentioned its Sapphire Rapids-X...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> videocardz.com


Hope no E-cores and no *mesh* there, but only more P-cores, still with *ring bus* and even more L3 cache.

+ bigger DIE = better heat transfer/distribution.


----------



## fat4l

Guys do you have a direct link to Asus Turbo V core we can use on strix boards? thanks


----------



## digitalfrost




----------



## acoustic

Groove2013 said:


> Hope no E-cores and no *mesh* there, but only more P-cores, still with *ring bus* and even more L3 cache.
> 
> + bigger DIE = better heat transfer/distribution.


Ring Bus has already shown it struggles with too many cores. I'm not sure how many more P-Cores they can push before it becomes a mess similar to the 10900K, unless they've come up with some new ideas.

I'm very interested in ADL-X though, Mesh or Ring Bus be damned. More cache, more P-Cores, and hopefully better DDR5 support.


----------



## Groove2013

acoustic said:


> Ring Bus has already shown it struggles with too many cores. I'm not sure how many more P-Cores they can push before it becomes a mess similar to the 10900K, unless they've come up with some new ideas.
> 
> I'm very interested in ADL-X though, Mesh or Ring Bus be damned. More cache, more P-Cores, and hopefully better DDR5 support.


Mesh is super slow, like max 3.3 GHz? no - thx. Bye bye low ns in Aida64 with mesh instead of ring bus.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> @bscool tested slot A2 and B2 on my Strix D4 and slot A2 can't boot more than 4200 MHz, while slot B2 can boot 4300 MHz, with same stick.
> 
> Could buying another Strix D4 potentially help in that regard?
> Since @bscool Strix D4 boots 4300 MHz both sticks no problem.
> Ok, booting both sticks can be IMC.
> But only booting (not stable) still only one and same stick should work at same frequency?
> Or it can alao be IMC weakness on that specific channel?
> 
> I can't even boot more than 4266 MHz gear 2 with both sticks.


It is true that because memory slots are binned by motherboard manufacturers as well, sometimes some slots can be of better/poorer quality than others.
However, I'm more leaning towards the IMC simply not being able to take two sticks over one.


fat4l said:


> Guys do you have a direct link to Asus Turbo V core we can use on strix boards? thanks


Paging @sugi0lover 


acoustic said:


> Ring Bus has already shown it struggles with too many cores. I'm not sure how many more P-Cores they can push before it becomes a mess similar to the 10900K, unless they've come up with some new ideas.


This is true. As soon as you turn on the E-cores, it becomes that much harder to stabilize the IMC with the same Ring clock.
And even more so if the E-cores are poorly binned.


----------



## acoustic

Groove2013 said:


> Mesh is super slow, like max 3.3 GHz? no - thx. Bye bye low ns in Aida64 with mesh instead of ring bus.


I wouldn't worry too much about AIDA. It's a terrible benchmark.

While latency is higher, Skylake-X performed extremely well in terms of general memory performance, especially when tuned.

The Mesh could be 2.2Ghz for all I care; what matters is the performance in applications, not inaccurate, easy-to-manipulate synthetic benchmarks.

I'm curious what Intel will do though. I think it would do well in terms of ADL-X being a "successor' to move away from Mesh. Maybe not necessarily Ring Bus, but something else.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> It is true that because memory slots are binned by motherboard manufacturers as well, sometimes some slots can be of better/poorer quality than others.
> However, I'm more leaning towards the IMC simply not being able to take two sticks over one.


I think you might not have paid enough attention to what I wrote.
I said that with only *one* stick, the same *one* stick that has no problems to do 4300 MHz in slot B2, this same *one* stick can't boot more than 4200 MHz in slot A2.
Not even talking about 2 sticks at the same time.
I only said that @bscool can boot both his 16 GB sticks at 4300 and stable 4266, not me.
For me, I was talking only about 1 stick at a time, in different slots.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> I think you might not have paid enough attention to what I wrote.
> I said that with only *one* stick, the same *one* stick that has no problems to do 4300 MHz in slot B2, this same *one* stick can't boot more than 4200 MHz in slot A2.
> Not even talking about 2 sticks at the same time.
> I only said that @bscool can boot both his 16 GB sticks at 4300 and stable 4266, not me.
> For me, I was talking only about 1 stick at a time, in different slots.


Then that is a memory slot binning issue. Not common, but it does happen.
I think one of the biggest and most recent cases are the people here who bought launch day Z690 Apexes and couldn't boot over 6,400-6,600.

You could try swapping out your motherboard if you want. But based on my experience thus far, _even if you can boot 4,300 just fine_, you'll be IMC limited at around the 4,200-4,266 MHz mark. So whether or not you really want to play around with that extra 66-100 MHz is up to you.

_One_ of the reasons why I swapped to the MSI Edge from the Strix was because of how some managed to easily boot 4,300 MHz Gear 1 with it, and how its QVL list seemed promising with its support for a lot of high frequency kits, as well as quad DIMM setups. Setups which the Strix QVL does not list.

However, as I have tested out both boards, I can tell you, with confidence, that the differences are very, _very_ minor. More of an environmental difference than an efficiency one.
It is your call at the end of the day. But you will definitely take a loss on a new board unless you're buying it second-hand.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> Then that is a memory slot binning issue. Not common, but it does happen.
> I think one of the biggest and most recent cases are the people here who bought launch day Z690 Apexes and couldn't boot over 6,400-6,600.
> 
> You could try swapping out your motherboard if you want. But based on my experience thus far, _even if you can boot 4,300 just fine_, you'll be IMC limited at around the 4,200-4,266 MHz mark. So whether or not you really want to play around with that extra 66-100 MHz is up to you.
> 
> _One_ of the reasons why I swapped to the MSI Edge from the Strix was because of how some managed to easily boot 4,300 MHz Gear 1 with it, and how its QVL list seemed promising with its support for a lot of high frequency kits, as well as quad DIMM setups. Setups which the Strix QVL does not list.
> 
> However, as I have tested out both boards, I can tell you, with confidence, that the differences are very, _very_ minor. More of an environmental difference than an efficiency one.
> It is your call at the end of the day. But you will definitely take a loss on a new board unless you're buying it second-hand.


I don't need 4300 2x16.
If it can do 4266 15-16-16 or 4200 15-15-15, it's more than fine for me then.

Just want to make sure it's not the IMC.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> I don't need 4300 2x16.
> If it can do 4266 15-16-16 or 4200 15-15-15, it's more than fine for me then.
> 
> Just want to make sure it's not the IMC.


It can be the IMC as well. And in general it tends to be a IMC limitation rather than a memory slot limitation.

From my findings, 4,200 CL15 is easy to stabilize with a reasonable VCCSA, for a daily config. But that's 2x8 GB. I think 2x16 GB should be fine as well.

tRCD of 15 will be hard at 4,200 MHz (or more). That depends on RAM binning and extreme RAM cooling. Might be possible with watercooled DIMMs.
I got close to being able to run tRCD at 15, but it would eventually succumb to heat. This is with two dedicated fans blowing on the better binned kit, which also has a larger heatspreader.

4,200-4,266 MHz 15-16-XX-XX-1T should be a more realistic daily at up to 1.40V VCCSA, depending on IMC.


----------



## fat4l

ok i have this asus turbo v core now.
Version v1.10.19 ... is this the last one ?


The question I have is , how to enable per core oc ? it's greyed out and I can only control all cores at the same time.
(Group Tuning)


----------



## xarot

Direct die, CPU lapping, custom copper IHS, now custom socket stuff...all this reminds me of early Skylake-X days in a really negative way. Tried all of that crap till they finally bothered to even properly solder the CPUs. Also saw der8auer mentioning possible problems with RAM detection due to socket pressure issues...oh wait this reminds of the 1800€ Dominus Extreme on my shelf (no latch mechanish on LGA3647, waterblock screwed directly on top of the CPU that's floating on pins only).


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> It can be the IMC as well. And in general it tends to be a IMC limitation rather than a memory slot limitation.
> 
> From my findings, 4,200 CL15 is easy to stabilize with a reasonable VCCSA, for a daily config. But that's 2x8 GB. I think 2x16 GB should be fine as well.
> 
> tRCD of 15 will be hard at 4,200 MHz (or more). That depends on RAM binning and extreme RAM cooling. Might be possible with watercooled DIMMs.
> I got close to being able to run tRCD at 15, but it would eventually succumb to heat. This is with two dedicated fans blowing on the better binned kit, which also has a larger heatspreader.
> 
> 4,200-4,266 MHz 15-16-XX-XX-1T should be a more realistic daily at up to 1.40V VCCSA, depending on IMC.


I will first rebuy same Strix D4 board, to see whether it solves A2 RAM slot frequency being lower than B2 RAM slot.

What's the trmp of your sticks when stressing them and what's the DRAM voltage?


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> I will first rebuy same Strix D4 board, to see whether it solves A2 RAM slot frequency being lower than B2 RAM slot.
> 
> What's the trmp of your sticks when stressing them and what's the DRAM voltage?


I'd see if you could exchange your board first, if the store you bought yours from allows it.
I don't have a temperature meter to know since both kits I'm using are not G.Skill, but I just know from experience that they are overheating.
I'm running them at or over 1.60V, like I do with my Micron B-die kits. Familiar territory to me.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> I'd see if you could exchange your board first, if the store you bought yours from allows it.
> I don't have a temperature meter to know since both kits I'm using are not G.Skill, but I just know from experience that they are overheating.
> I'm running them at or over 1.60V, like I do with my Micron B-die kits. Familiar territory to me.


no active cooling of sticks by a fan?


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> no active cooling of sticks by a fan?


As I mentioned in post #5,182, I have two dedicated fans blowing directly onto the sticks. It's not my first rodeo.
tRCD 15 is way too hard to cool at 4,200+ MHz. You need to watercool the DIMMs; maybe even LN2. And that's assuming a kit with very well binned tRCD.

Again: *14*-16-15-35-*1T *is stable on 4,200 MHz at 1.40V VCCSA. That is probably the best daily Gear 1 config achievable with a golden IMC.
4,266 MHz is possible if tCL is loosened to 15. And 2x16 GB DR should work as well, although tCL and/or CR might need to be loosened.
_(The ones with 4,300 MHz stable are using an insanely binned IMC with most likely 1.50V VCCSA and also insanely binned and cooled RAM.)_

I will commence with quad DIMM tests later to see what I can achieve on this motherboard.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> The P-cores, E-cores, and Cache all share the same Vcore, so aside from temps (or IMC instability), there is no reason not to max out all of them.
> Just raise the Cache clock gradually until your stress tests become unstable, and dial it back down. That's all you really need to do.
> With a golden chip like yours, it should reach at least 43-45x easy, even with the E-cores on.


Which option is that on ASUS mobos?


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Which option is that on ASUS mobos?


Scroll down a bit, below the primary core/memory settings and above the voltage settings. It's the minimum and maximum cache clock.
Just set them both to the same value of 40x or more. Push them up gradually until the CPU gets unstable in stress tests.
You shouldn't need to do anything else, unless you've manually overclocked your RAM.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> Scroll down a bit, below the primary core/memory settings and above the voltage settings. It's the minimum and maximum cache clock.
> Just set them both to the same value of 40x or more. Push them up gradually until the CPU gets unstable in stress tests.
> You shouldn't need to do anything else, unless you've manually overclocked your RAM.


I did manually overclock my RAM. I enabled XMP, changed latency and increased voltage.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I did manually overclock my RAM. I enabled XMP, changed latency and increased voltage.


I mean, beyond XMP. If you didn't manually increase the frequency and/or tighten the timings, it's of no concern.
But if you did, then you may need to push the IMC voltages a little higher as you raise the Cache clock.

Again, if all you did was basically XMP, don't worry about it.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> I mean, beyond XMP. If you didn't manually increase the frequency and/or tighten the timings, it's of no concern.
> But if you did, then you may need to push the IMC voltages a little higher as you raise the Cache clock.
> 
> Again, if all you did was basically XMP, don't worry about it.


Okay so I need to raise voltage.

XMP enabled 6400, then changed to 6800.

Then I went into subtimings and lowered them all.

Then I enabled high voltage mode for RAM and put it as 1.5V.

What is it called again on ASUS mobo the IMC voltages?


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Okay so I need to raise voltage.
> 
> XMP enabled 6400, then changed to 6800.
> 
> Then I went into subtimings and lowered them all.
> 
> Then I enabled high voltage mode for RAM and put it as 1.5V.
> 
> What is it called again on ASUS mobo the IMC voltages?


First maximize your Cache clock. You won't need to boost the IMC voltages until you're at the brink of stability.
That is, your chip might be able to do up to, say, 44x right now as-is. But for 45x, if raising Vcore doesn't help, _then_ it might be due to an IMC limitation.
There's like, four or five different IMC voltages to have to deal with for DDR5, which is actually not my forte. Somebody else here will have to fill in.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> First maximize your Cache clock. You won't need to boost the IMC voltages until you're at the brink of stability.
> That is, your chip might be able to do up to, say, 44x right now as-is. But for 45x, if raising Vcore doesn't help, _then_ it might be due to an IMC limitation.
> There's like, four or five different IMC voltages to have to deal with for DDR5, which is actually not my forte. Somebody else here will have to fill in.


Yeah no matter what I raise it to it crashes.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Yeah no matter what I raise it to it crashes.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Yeah no matter what I raise it to it crashes.


Run a random stress test and tell me what the Cache clock currently maxes out at, in HWInfo.
If I'm not wrong, since you have it on Auto, it's probably something really low like 35x or worse.

You might have to dial down your E-cores just to stabilize a higher Cache. Or maybe even the P-cores.
You want to be at at least 40x Cache. Any lower, and it's going to weigh on your chip a bit.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> Run a random stress test and tell me what the Cache clock currently maxes out at, in HWInfo.
> If I'm not wrong, since you have it on Auto, it's probably something really low like 35x or worse.
> 
> You might have to dial down your E-cores just to stabilize a higher Cache. Or maybe even the P-cores.
> You want to be at at least 40x Cache. Any lower, and it's going to weigh on your chip a bit.


Okay so I did XTU cache OC instead for now and it seems to behave when I raise its voltage. Trying for 43 now


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Okay so I managed to get it stable with high voltage for now but I'm trying to understand why my Cinebench score is so low with such clocks, I seen people get better scores with lower clocks:


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Okay so I managed to get it stable with high voltage for now but I'm trying to understand why my Cinebench score is so low with such clocks, I seen people get better scores with lower clocks:
> 
> View attachment 2558020
> 
> View attachment 2558019
> 
> View attachment 2558018


Probably because XTU collides against and takes precedence over certain BIOS settings, at least from my experience. It's not that great to rely on.
Run HWInfo and check to see whether or not you are actually getting the clocks you put in.

Plus, that's the core clock ratio you use when X number of cores are active. It's not Per Core.
So if Cinebench is running all eight cores at once, it's only doing 54x for all of them.

Also, Cache Voltage doesn't exist for Z690. It's shared with the Vcore. And 1.325V seems high for VCCSA on DDR5.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> Probably because XTU collides against and takes precedence over certain BIOS settings, at least from my experience. It's not that great to rely on.
> Run HWInfo and check to see whether or not you are actually getting the clocks you put in.
> 
> Plus, that's the core clock ratio you use when X number of cores are active. It's not Per Core.
> So if Cinebench is running all eight cores at once, it's only doing 54x for all of them.
> 
> Also, Cache Voltage doesn't exist for Z690. It's shared with the Vcore. And 1.325V seems high for VCCSA on DDR5.


I am getting those clocks, CPU-Z, Core Temp, Windows all report it right and single core matches a good score.

Haven't checked it against all core Cinebench run though.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> Probably because XTU collides against and takes precedence over certain BIOS settings, at least from my experience. It's not that great to rely on.
> Run HWInfo and check to see whether or not you are actually getting the clocks you put in.
> 
> Plus, that's the core clock ratio you use when X number of cores are active. It's not Per Core.
> So if Cinebench is running all eight cores at once, it's only doing 54x for all of them.
> 
> Also, Cache Voltage doesn't exist for Z690. It's shared with the Vcore. And 1.325V seems high for VCCSA on DDR5.


Ah I see, so even though it's set to have certain cores at certain speeds, it will only run all core as low as the weakest link right? It being 5.4Ghz


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I am getting those clocks, CPU-Z, Core Temp, Windows all report it right and single core matches a good score.





TheNaitsyrk said:


> Ah I see, so even though it's set to have certain cores at certain speeds, it will only run all core as low as the weakest link right? It being 5.4Ghz


Use HWInfo for the most accurate reading.
XTU does not have a Per Core mode, IIRC. You have to do it in the BIOS.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> Use HWInfo for the most accurate reading.
> XTU does not have a Per Core mode, IIRC. You have to do it in the BIOS.


Will copy those settings over to BIOS from XTU. I will do per core voltage adjustment and get the last core to 5.5 as well.

Cache OC doesn't seem to have impact in Cinebench though.


----------



## sugi0lover

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Will copy those settings over to BIOS from XTU. I will do per core voltage adjustment and get the last core to 5.5 as well.
> 
> Cache OC doesn't seem to have impact in Cinebench though.


Cache OC has impact in latency. You should check your latency with your setup.


----------



## LazyGamer

Ichirou said:


> XTU does not have a Per Core mode, IIRC.


It's there, but your previous comment about precedence applies too.

You can't really be certain whether the board is responding to XTU or the BIOS, especially at the extremes where limiters in one or the other apply.



Ichirou said:


> Use HWInfo for the most accurate reading.


I've seen HWINFO read inaccurate data only once so far - and that was with some memory auto-adjustment feature MSI has. HWINFO reported memory running at 6400 (as did a few other software suites), but CPU-Z had it correct at a much lower speed. Knocked the wind out of the excitement.


----------



## Tadaschi

david12900k said:


> Just finished stability testing my daily OC:
> 12900KS SP 98 on Asus Apex Bios version 1403
> Pcore SP: 105
> Ecore SP: 85
> 
> 54 P cores, 43 E cores, 43 Cache
> LLC 7
> 
> 5400 @ 1.2495v set in bios, 1.225v under load in HwInfo - I could go lower with this, but had to bump it up a few mV to get 43 e cores and 43 cache completely stable
> 
> V/F Offsets as Follows:
> PT4: - 0.014
> PT5: - 0.202
> PT6: - 0.150
> PT7: + 0.001
> 
> Stability Testing:
> Cinebench R23: 10 runs of the 30 minute stress test back to back
> OCCT: AVX2 large (4 runs of 1 hour)
> Prime95avx (1 hour of small fft's)
> 
> Over-all wasnt too hard to stabilize. With e-cores at 40, I can run at 1.208v under load.
> This OC will the the base of my daily OC. The next step is to start configuring OCTVB so that I can hit some higher frequencies while under light loads (gaming). My normal 12900k could do 5.5 all core in games, so im sure i can push this KS further.
> I also need to start trying to OC my ram, now that I fixed the instability issue


Great settings.
i do have a similar sp96 p104 e 82, 
your settings are
54 P cores, 43 E cores, 43 Cache
LLC 7

5400 @ 1.2495v set in bios, 1.225v under load in HwInfo - I could go lower with this, but had to bump it up a few mV to get 43 e cores and 43 cache completely stable

V/F Offsets as Follows:
PT4: - 0.014
PT5: - 0.202
PT6: - 0.150
PT7: + 0.001
what is your system agent voltage and cache voltage?
do you did any other changes over the digi vrm?


----------



## david12900k

Tadaschi said:


> Great settings.
> i do have a similar sp96 p104 e 82,
> your settings are
> 54 P cores, 43 E cores, 43 Cache
> LLC 7
> 
> 5400 @ 1.2495v set in bios, 1.225v under load in HwInfo - I could go lower with this, but had to bump it up a few mV to get 43 e cores and 43 cache completely stable
> 
> V/F Offsets as Follows:
> PT4: - 0.014
> PT5: - 0.202
> PT6: - 0.150
> PT7: + 0.001
> what is your system agent voltage and cache voltage?
> do you did any other changes over the digi vrm?


System Agent and cache voltages are both Auto. I used to change some settings in Digi + vrm, but now I only change the LLC for my daily oc


----------



## Groove2013

@Ichirou could stabilize one 16 GB stick in B2 slot at 4200 MHz 15-15-15-35 at 1.55625 V (BIOS).
Now checking the 2nd stick at same frequency and primaries, to see the voltage it will require for that.

4266 I was able to stabilize at 1.62500 V (BIOS) at 15-18-18-38.
But when I tried to do 15-15-15-35 or 15-16-16-36, it wasn't possible.

Anyways, 4200 15-15-15-35 results in same ns in Aida64 as lets say if I would have stabilized 4266 15-16-16-36, but at much much lower DRAM voltage than 4266.

4200 *14*-15-15-35 also requires a very high DRAM voltage, way above 1.6 V - not worth it.


----------



## Groove2013

Groove2013 said:


> @Ichirou could stabilize one 16 GB stick in B2 slot at 4200 MHz 15-15-15-35 at 1.55625 V (BIOS).
> Now checking the 2nd stick at same frequency and primaries, to see the voltage it will require for that.
> 
> 4266 I was able to stabilize at 1.62500 V (BIOS) at 15-18-18-38.
> But when I tried to do 15-15-15-35 or 15-16-16-36, it wasn't possible.
> 
> Anyways, 4200 15-15-15-35 results in same ns in Aida64 as lets say if I would have stabilized 4266 15-16-16-36, but at much much lower DRAM voltage than 4266.
> 
> 4200 *14*-15-15-35 also requires a very high DRAM voltage, way above 1.6 V - not worth it.


Prime95 will most probably need a slightly higher DRAM voltage than Karhu RAM Test.

Also if one of both sticks is worse than the other, regarding DRAM voltage needed to run stable, the better stick will have to run at the voltage of the worst stick, since when both sticks installed, same voltage is applied to both.


----------



## Groove2013

Groove2013 said:


> @Ichirou could stabilize one 16 GB stick in B2 slot at 4200 MHz 15-15-15-35 at 1.55625 V (BIOS).
> Now checking the 2nd stick at same frequency and primaries, to see the voltage it will require for that.
> 
> 4266 I was able to stabilize at 1.62500 V (BIOS) at 15-18-18-38.
> But when I tried to do 15-15-15-35 or 15-16-16-36, it wasn't possible.
> 
> Anyways, 4200 15-15-15-35 results in same ns in Aida64 as lets say if I would have stabilized 4266 15-16-16-36, but at much much lower DRAM voltage than 4266.
> 
> 4200 *14*-15-15-35 also requires a very high DRAM voltage, way above 1.6 V - not worth it.


I think 2x16 3600 14-14-14-34 could, potentially, help me achieve 4200 *14*-15-15 or 4266 15-*15*-*15*, since they have newer/better memory chips that don't require as high voltage as my 2x16 3800 14-16-16-36 from January 2021 + they 100% can do tRCD and tRP 14.

So I will, probably, still have to go towards 1.6 V or maybe just slightly above that, but these sticks might allow me to achieve tighter timings, while not having to run like 1.65+ or 1.7+ V DRAM.


----------



## Ichirou

@Groove2013 I didn't particularly like the 3,600 flat-14 2x16 GB DR kit, so I refunded it after a week of playing around with it.
For me, it wouldn't boot above 1.64V VDIMM. I recall that it needed 1.58V just to do 4,000 14-15-15-XX-1T. Not ideal. March 2022 batch.


----------



## Groove2013

@Ichirou do you know whether required DRAM voltage might be higher for the same stick, depending on RAM slot used or when both/all slots are populated with sticks?


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> @Groove2013 I didn't particularly like the 3,600 flat-14 2x16 GB DR kit, so I refunded it after a week of playing around with it.
> For me, it wouldn't boot above 1.64V VDIMM. I recall that it needed 1.58V just to do 4,000 14-15-15-XX-1T. Not ideal. March 2022 batch.


Well, you're too used to single rank sticks.
For dual rank it's generally normal to top out at the voltage you mentioned.
And 1.58 V for just 4000, it might be due to 1T, which is very very hard for dual rank and generally one can't even do 4000 MHz with DR, when 1T.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> @Ichirou do you know whether required DRAM voltage might be higher for the same stick, depending on RAM slot used or when both/all slots are populated with sticks?


The VDIMM required shouldn't be affected by the slot it is in, or by how many sticks are in.
You do need to use the VDIMM of the worst stick, though. And VCCSA will need to be raised accordingly.


Groove2013 said:


> Well, you're too used to single rank sticks.
> For dual rank it normal to top out at the voltage you mentioned.
> And 1.58 V for just 4000, it might be due to 1T, which very very hard for dual rank and generally one can't even do 4000 MHz with DR, when 1T.


Yeah, I overclock RAM for fun, and there wasn't much to be had with that kit. So I refunded it.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> The VDIMM required shouldn't be affected by the slot it is in, or by how many sticks are in.
> You do need to use the VDIMM of the worst stick, though. And VCCSA will need to be raised accordingly.


VCCSA required is higher when there is a stick that requires a higher VDIMM?


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> VCCSA required is higher when there is a stick that requires a higher VDIMM?


More VCCSA is required when there are more DIMMs installed, or when the IMC is getting hammered harder with more performance, or when there are more cores/cache involved, etc.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> More VCCSA is required when there are more DIMMs installed, or when the IMC is getting hammered harder with more performance, or when there are more cores/cache involved, etc.


Well, that's logical.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> Use HWInfo for the most accurate reading.
> XTU does not have a Per Core mode, IIRC. You have to do it in the BIOS.


Yeah I just checked CPU reporting and all cores go to 5.4Ghz indeed. If I do per core in BIOS it should behave properly in Cinebench right? I don't want to seek another CPU really...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> @Ichirou do you know whether required DRAM voltage might be higher for the same stick, depending on RAM slot used or when both/all slots are populated with sticks?


According to the manual, A2 should be better than B2, ofc it also depends on the CPU-slot contact, like whether your CPU base is bent or not.


----------



## Groove2013

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> According to the manual, A2 should be better than B2, ofc it also depends on the CPU-slot contact, like whether your CPU base is bent or not.
> View attachment 2558037


I know like 5 other people that have same experience with Alder Lake, where B(2) slot consistently boots at higher frequency than A(2), although A(2) is closer...

Haven't checked whether CPU base is bent or not.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> I know like 5 other people that have same experience with Alder Lake, where B(2) slot consistently boots at higher frequency than A(2), although A(2) is closer...


It also depends on different boards. My 1st Strix-A D4 did boot higher freq with B2. But my second Strix-A D4 boots higher with A2.

The CPU-Slot contact is also very important. ADL pcb is very likely to be bent, thus you need to adjust your slot lock and the waterblock to get the best contact.


----------



## Groove2013

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> It also depends on different boards. My 1st Strix-A D4 did boot higher freq with B2. But my second Strix-A D4 boots higher with A2.
> 
> The CPU-Slot contact is also very important. ADL pcb is very likely to be bent, thus you need to adjust your slot lock and the waterblock to get the best contact.


what was the frequency for each of both slots it could boot on the mobo with B2 being the highest?

what are the frequencies for both slots of your current Strix D4, where A2 is boots highest?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> what was the frequency for each of both slots it could boot on the mobo with B2 being the highest?
> 
> what are the frequencies for both slots of your current Strix D4, where A2 is boots highest?


On my 1st Strix-A, I've tried 4500 SR, but that slot failed soon and just refused to boot any freq, so I returned it.

On my 2nd Strix-A, the highest A2 freq is 4400, but is much much more stable than my 1st Strix-A


----------



## Groove2013

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> On my 1st Strix-A, I've tried 4500 SR, but that slot failed soon and just refused to boot any freq, so I returned it.
> 
> On my 2nd Strix-A, the highest A2 freq is 4400, but is much much more stable than my 1st Strix-A


and B2 frequency?

Might simply remove CPU retention mechanism and press down the CPU only with the waterblock itself.


----------



## Groove2013

@OLDFATSHEEP so nothing to do with one channel weaker than the other on the CPU itself.
Only from mobo to mobo slots variation then.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> @OLDFATSHEEP so nothing to do with one channel weaker than the other on the CPU itself.
> Only from mobo to mobo slots variation then.


The highest freq 4500, that I mentioned with my 1st Strix-A, was B2.

I don't know if that was caused by a malfunctioning B2, once a motherboard design is fixed, all the same boards should behave the same way, no variations.

One slot weaker than the other was caused by the PCB layout, according to the manual I believe A2 should be stronger than B2.


----------



## Groove2013

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> The highest freq 4500, that I mentioned with my 1st Strix-A, was B2.


I understood this.
But you said than on your current Strix A2 does 4400.

And I'm asking what's the frequency B2 does on your current Strix D4, so the 2nd Strix D4, not the 1st, where it did 4500.


----------



## Groove2013

Each stick tested separately (2×16 3800 14-16) on my Strix D4 Z690, resulted in 4200 15-15-15 at 1.544 V in the best slot (B2), for each of both sticks.
Both sticks doing exactly same voltage - no discrepancy between both sticks, regarding the voltage.
4266 also works, but with higher primaries.

But when I put one stick in slot A2, at 4200 15-15-15 1.544 V, it barely boots into Windows, not even always.
And when I start Karhu, almost instantly errors or blue screen.

So this is the mobo preventing me from doing 4200-4266 MHz CL15, with only slot A2 or both slots populated.

with 3600 14-14 sticks and a board with both RAM slots functioning (equally) well, I might be able to 4200 14-15-15 or 14-15-14.


----------



## fat4l

Guys in asus turbov core. How to enable per core multiplier? The option for group setting is greyed out for me. Any idea? Thanks


----------



## Groove2013

fat4l said:


> Guys in asus turbov core. How to enable per core multiplier? The option for group setting is greyed out for me. Any idea? Thanks


works only in the BIOS. TurboV Core allows only to do all cores frequency.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Is anyone able to run their 12900KS in Cinebench R15/20/23 at 5.5Ghz with E cores OCed and Enabled?

I went through the thread and it seems that nobody can do it.

I thought my chip sucks ass because it can't do 5.5Ghz all core so I was wondering if it's just me or is my chip still "pretty golden" for it doing 5.4Ghz while temps are barely touching 70c.


----------



## fat4l

There is some ppl that can do 5.5G.
I myself am now waiting for a chip that is supposed to do it. It should be delivered this week. So let's see


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

fat4l said:


> There is some ppl that can do 5.5G.
> I myself am now waiting for a chip that is supposed to do it. It should be delivered this week. So let's see


Ah I see. I guess that happens on very rare occasions as I noticed only two people on this thread can do it.


----------



## Groove2013

Somebody, finally tell this guy he has a golden sample, since he's been seeking recognition on so many occasions recently.
Even asked whether the chip is any good, showing screens with high SP etc (obviously knowing that it is).
Also on occasion showing ho many big rads he has for CPU only and not forgetting to mention how many liters of coolant fits inside, how many pumps and super fast fans there are and that he has exactly same setup for GPU only.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> I understood this.
> But you said than on your current Strix A2 does 4400.
> 
> And I'm asking what's the frequency B2 does on your current Strix D4, so the 2nd Strix D4, not the 1st, where it did 4500.


The same 4400, and so does dual-channel case. I haven't figured out why it cant do 4500 now.


----------



## Groove2013

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> The same 4400, and so does dual-channel case. I haven't figured out why it cant do 4500 now.


so each slot (separately) maxes out at 4400 MHz right now, right?

then I wonder why you're doing only 4100 MHz with both sticks.

SA/VDDQ TX being the limit at 1.44 V?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

fat4l said:


> There is some ppl that can do 5.5G.
> I myself am now waiting for a chip that is supposed to do it. It should be delivered this week. So let's see


What kind of LLC do I need to run to attempt 5.5Ghz? I saw most people who run 5.5 have the CPU eat 350W +. 

My one never got past 240W so maybe that's the problem?

Should I try LLC 6 or something like that?


----------



## fat4l

TheNaitsyrk said:


> What kind of LLC do I need to run to attempt 5.5Ghz? I saw most people who run 5.5 have the CPU eat 350W +.
> 
> My one never got past 240W so maybe that's the problem?
> 
> Should I try LLC 6 or something like that?


If its that high that's suggests a leaky chip..which generally scales better with volts and cooling


----------



## Ichirou

@Groove2013 OLDFATSHEEP is pretty much reiterating the same experience I had with my Strix.

On Gear 2, all slots just wouldn't boot past a certain frequency with Samsung B-die, no matter what. Now, mine were worse with them capping off at like, 4,300 MHz or so, but the point stands. As soon as I swapped to the MSI Edge, I could boot up to 5,000 MHz just fine, albeit they were not stable due to a weak IMC (at the time).

On Gear 1, the experience will be what I've been telling you about for the last long while. 90% an IMC limitation.
You might be super unlucky and get some poorly binned memory slots, but they shouldn't hold you back from a potential 4,200-4,266 MHz stable, if the IMC is strong enough.

The max VCCSA you should use daily is 1.40V. But the universal limit is 1.52V. For testing purpose, it's safe to go over. But I wouldn't advise dailying it.

I wouldn't swap the board. I'd advise you to keep binning CPUs until one has a strong enough IMC.

In other news, _this_ golden IMC chip I have will not boot 4,000 CL13 no matter what. I tried reusing my previous kit and a profile that I saved. No dice.
It seems that the IMC can dictate whether or not CL13 can be booted. Never thought that it would be a possible limitation, but it is.


TheNaitsyrk said:


> What kind of LLC do I need to run to attempt 5.5Ghz? I saw most people who run 5.5 have the CPU eat 350W +.
> 
> My one never got past 240W so maybe that's the problem?
> 
> Should I try LLC 6 or something like that?


LLC doesn't really matter for the purpose of overclocking; the load voltage will always be the final measure for stability.
For simplicity sake, just leave it at a high enough LLC that minimizes Vdroop/overshoot and figure out the voltage you need.
You can lower LLC and increase Vcore afterwards.


----------



## centvalny

Max core on water ambient. Imc can go higher


----------



## Ichirou

centvalny said:


> Max core on water ambient. Imc can go higher
> View attachment 2558090
> View attachment 2558091


Load voltage for that 5.9 GHz core?


----------



## Dinnzy

Can someone on a unify x please share the KS 5.4 or 5.5 or 6.9 god settings they are using pweassseeee :[


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> @Groove2013 OLDFATSHEEP is pretty much reiterating the same experience I had with my Strix.
> 
> On Gear 2, all slots just wouldn't boot past a certain frequency with Samsung B-die, no matter what. Now, mine were worse with them capping off at like, 4,300 MHz or so, but the point stands. As soon as I swapped to the MSI Edge, I could boot up to 5,000 MHz just fine, albeit they were not stable due to a weak IMC (at the time).
> 
> On Gear 1, the experience will be what I've been telling you about for the last long while. 90% an IMC limitation.
> You might be super unlucky and get some poorly binned memory slots, but they shouldn't hold you back from a potential 4,200-4,266 MHz stable, if the IMC is strong enough.
> 
> The max VCCSA you should use daily is 1.40V. But the universal limit is 1.52V. For testing purpose, it's safe to go over. But I wouldn't advise dailying it.
> 
> I wouldn't swap the board. I'd advise you to keep binning CPUs until one has a strong enough IMC.
> 
> In other news, _this_ golden IMC chip I have will not boot 4,000 CL13 no matter what. I tried reusing my previous kit and a profile that I saved. No dice.
> It seems that the IMC can dictate whether or not CL13 can be booted. Never thought that it would be a possible limitation, but it is.
> 
> LLC doesn't really matter for the purpose of overclocking; the load voltage will always be the final measure for stability.
> For simplicity sake, just leave it at a high enough LLC that minimizes Vdroop/overshoot and figure out the voltage you need.
> You can lower LLC and increase Vcore afterwards.


Yep thanks for this. Anything I am doing to this CPU makes it not boot run even a second of Cinebench at 5.5... that's sad.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Yep thanks for this. Anything I am doing to this CPU makes it not boot run even a second of Cinebench at 5.5... that's sad.


Isolate the issue. Kill off the E-cores entirely, set the cache clock to 40x, and then do an all-core of 55x.
Set Vcore to manual or adaptive, and set it to like, 1.40-1.45V. ASUS LLC 6-7 is fine for now.
Set your RAM overclock back to XMP only, in case it might be a factor (i.e. if it was never stable to begin with).
If you want to be even more aggressive with pinpointing the issue, disable 2-4 of your P-cores entirely. It should kill off the weakest ones by default.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> Isolate the issue. Kill off the E-cores entirely, set the cache clock to 40x, and then do an all-core of 55x.
> Set Vcore to manual or adaptive, and set it to like, 1.40-1.45V. ASUS LLC 6-7 is fine for now.
> Set your RAM overclock back to XMP only, in case it might be a factor (i.e. if it was never stable to begin with).
> If you want to be even more aggressive with pinpointing the issue, disable 2-4 of your P-cores entirely. It should kill off the weakest ones by default.


No dice. Straight up fails in CB23. I guess this CPU is just not 5.5Ghz capable.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> No dice. Straight up fails in CB23. I guess this CPU is just not 5.5Ghz capable.


Unfortunate. Some others here have had similar experiences; they have gotten chips that just won't play ball at overly high multipliers.
Have you tried disabling some of the P-cores?


----------



## nickolp1974

fat4l said:


> If its that high that's suggests a leaky chip..which generally scales better with volts and cooling


mine hits just shy of 440w at 5.4g which it wont complete cinebench R23, no chance of cooling that on an AIO LOL


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> Unfortunate. Some others here have had similar experiences; they have gotten chips that just won't play ball at overly high multipliers.
> Have you tried disabling some of the P-cores?


It's a lost game at this point. I will sell the chip. Someone will appreciate it.

I'll keep looking for something better.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> It's a lost game at this point. I will sell the chip. Someone will appreciate it.
> 
> I'll keep looking for something better.


What was the chip's SP rated for, again? You could probably fetch a good price on it.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> What was the chip's SP rated for, again? You could probably fetch a good price on it.


94 SP overall, 104 P cores 75 E cores.

It does 4.3 E cores and 5.4 P cores no problem though and it's not hot.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> 94 SP overall, 104 P cores 75 E cores.
> 
> It does 4.3 E cores and 5.4 P cores no problem though and it's not hot.


You could probably eBay that for a starting price of around 1,000-1,200 GBP, shipping included.
Make Best Offer available, and cover shipping to most places.
Also try local and online markets and whatnot.

But I advise getting a new chip first, so you aren't left hanging in case you can't find a better one.
5.4 GHz all-core is still an insanely good chip, especially as a daily one. 5.5+ GHz daily isn't really realistic for most people.


----------



## centvalny

It will be hard for any ks chip to run full cores @ 5.5g with only ambient water. You need at least 15c or colder constant water temp. Be realistic and do not chase the smoke. Even ln2 bencher looking for those magic 7k r20 chip mostly still looking, only a few lucky one found it.


----------



## Ichirou

centvalny said:


> It will be hard for any ks chip to run full cores @ 5.5g with only ambient water. You need at least 15c or colder constant water temp.


A top-binned KS and no E-cores enabled might work. Maybe with a ton of radiators.


----------



## centvalny

A friend test sp 96 with p108 max 6940 r20 ln2 and another sp 91 max 6980 r20. Go figure...


----------



## Falkentyne

TheNaitsyrk said:


> 94 SP overall, 104 P cores 75 E cores.
> 
> It does 4.3 E cores and 5.4 P cores no problem though and it's not hot.


I don't get it.
What is your fascination with 5.5 ghz?
Is it going to suddenly make you an e-sports winner or something?
Your CPU is already close to golden. You're not trying to compete for world records on the bot, are you?

Just enjoy your very way above average chip and have fun with it until Raptor Lake. This isn't the last CPU Intel will make...


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> so each slot (separately) maxes out at 4400 MHz right now, right?
> 
> then I wonder why you're doing only 4100 MHz with both sticks.
> 
> SA/VDDQ TX being the limit at 1.44 V?


4400 is only bootable with SR. For DR its 4266. 4133 is relative conservative but I can still get 72K copy and 41ns latency.

So now im running 4133 14-15 DR. Now SA=1.4V, VDDQ=1.45V. You may just regard VDDQ for DDR4 as IO2.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> @Groove2013 OLDFATSHEEP is pretty much reiterating the same experience I had with my Strix.
> 
> On Gear 2, all slots just wouldn't boot past a certain frequency with Samsung B-die, no matter what. Now, mine were worse with them capping off at like, 4,300 MHz or so, but the point stands. As soon as I swapped to the MSI Edge, I could boot up to 5,000 MHz just fine, albeit they were not stable due to a weak IMC (at the time).
> 
> On Gear 1, the experience will be what I've been telling you about for the last long while. 90% an IMC limitation.
> You might be super unlucky and get some poorly binned memory slots, but they shouldn't hold you back from a potential 4,200-4,266 MHz stable, if the IMC is strong enough.
> 
> The max VCCSA you should use daily is 1.40V. But the universal limit is 1.52V. For testing purpose, it's safe to go over. But I wouldn't advise dailying it.
> 
> I wouldn't swap the board. I'd advise you to keep binning CPUs until one has a strong enough IMC.
> 
> In other news, _this_ golden IMC chip I have will not boot 4,000 CL13 no matter what. I tried reusing my previous kit and a profile that I saved. No dice.
> It seems that the IMC can dictate whether or not CL13 can be booted. Never thought that it would be a possible limitation, but it is.


Probably due to BIOS. 0807-1304 were not quite good for the mem oc. 1404 has improved a lot.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

nickolp1974 said:


> mine hits just shy of 440w at 5.4g which it wont complete cinebench R23, no chance of cooling that on an AIO LOL


Yep 440w for mine too at around 1.38V set (1.35V die sense). Manages to squeak out 5.525/4.422. Hottest core hitting about 98C... shes toasty.


----------



## acoustic

Falkentyne said:


> I don't get it.
> What is your fascination with 5.5 ghz?
> Is it going to suddenly make you an e-sports winner or something?
> Your CPU is already close to golden. You're not trying to compete for world records on the bot, are you?
> 
> Just enjoy your very way above average chip and have fun with it until Raptor Lake. This isn't the last CPU Intel will make...


Literally makes no sense lmao


----------



## gecko991

Agreed.


----------



## T.Sharp

I'm sure many of you guys saw the LGA 1700 frame that Der8auer released, to prevent the IHS from bending. I just found out that Thermalright has been producing them for a while, and they're only $10.

9.38US $ 33% OFF|Thermalright LGA17XX BCF Red/Gray/Black Intel 12th CPU Bending Corrector Frame With TF7 1g Thermal Paste| | - AliExpress


----------



## Ichirou

T.Sharp said:


> I'm sure many of you guys saw the LGA 1700 frame that Der8auer released, to prevent the IHS from bending. I just found out that Thermalright has been producing them for a while, and they're only $10.
> 
> 9.38US $ 33% OFF|Thermalright LGA17XX BCF Red/Gray/Black Intel 12th CPU Bending Corrector Frame With TF7 1g Thermal Paste| | - AliExpress


Sounds a little too good to be true. Also, that aluminum is not too appealing...


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

centvalny said:


> It will be hard for any ks chip to run full cores @ 5.5g with only ambient water. You need at least 15c or colder constant water temp. Be realistic and do not chase the smoke. Even ln2 bencher looking for those magic 7k r20 chip mostly still looking, only a few lucky one found it.


Just depends on silicon quality AND heat dissipation. Some chips have solder bubbles, other chips start off really well but end up scaling worse with voltage than others. There's just so many factors more than just SP rating.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Just depends on silicon quality AND heat dissipation. Some chips have solder bubbles, other chips start off really well but end up scaling worse with voltage than others. There's just so many factors more than just SP rating.


It doesn't help that the SP ratings on the KS are significantly more inaccurate than they are on the K/KF chips. Intel probably only loosely estimated the VIDs.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

It doesn't help that the SP ratings on the KS are significantly more inaccurate than they are on the K/KF chips. Intel probably only loosely estimated the VIDs.
[/QUOTE]
Where have you heard that? I mean SP ratings should always be taken either a grain of salt as they arent gospel. But they are quite predictive. But they're just a useful first metric when binning and for best results you still gotta test each chip. But I haven't heard anything suggesting the VID tables on the KS chips are less accurate. Got any sources? I'm curious to learn more.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Where have you heard that? I mean SP ratings should always be taken either a grain of salt as they arent gospel. But they are quite predictive. But they're just a useful first metric when binning and for best results you still gotta test each chip. But I haven't heard anything suggesting the VID tables on the KS chips are less accurate. Got any sources? I'm curious to learn more.


The SP ratings for the K/KF chips have been largely accurate from from people have tested. P-core SP of 110+ is consistently golden, 100+ is good, anything below is just... meh.
But for the KS, although a P-core SP of 100+ is "golden" in comparison, there is a lot of variance in terms of achievable results. And below 100 is just a weird mixture.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Yeah between my friends and I we have a sample size of like 6 KS chips. P cores 105,103, 97, 91, 90, 88.
The 103 is the best chip of the 6, atleast on water. 5.5 with 4.4 on the e cores. The 105 is only marginally better than the 97. Both max out at 5.4 and 4.3 on the e cores but the 105 needs less voltage. The 103 and 105 both seem to use the exact same voltages per clock but the 103 seems to scale better with voltage.

The other 3 chips are much worse. The 90 will barely do 5.4 (e cores at 43) with around 1.325V set, but the 91 and 88 both get stuck at 5.3 and e cores at 42.

All in all SP rating is decently accurate but certainly isn't the end all be all for cpu quality. Maybe you're right about loose vid tables.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Yeah between my friends and I we have a sample size of like 6 KS chips. P cores 105,103, 97, 91, 90, 88.
> The 103 is the best chip of the 6, atleast on water. 5.5 with 4.4 on the e cores. The 105 is only marginally better than the 97. Both max out at 5.4 and 4.3 on the e cores but the 105 needs less voltage. The 103 and 105 both seem to use the exact same voltages per clock but the 103 seems to scale better with voltage.
> 
> The other 3 chips are much worse. The 90 will barely do 5.4 (e cores at 43) with around 1.325V set, but the 91 and 88 both get stuck at 5.3 and e cores at 42.
> 
> All in all SP rating is decently accurate but certainly isn't the end all be all for cpu quality. Maybe you're right about loose vid tables.


It's just a quick and dirty tool to bin CPUs, and gives ASUS an edge over their competitors as many will want to buy and use their boards just to do that.
I'm kind of surprised that other competitors haven't bothered to implement it into their BIOSes yet. It's not really rocket science, and I doubt it is patented.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ichirou said:


> It's just a quick and dirty tool to bin CPUs, and gives ASUS an edge over their competitors as many will want to buy and use their boards just to do that.
> I'm kind of surprised that other competitors haven't bothered to implement it into their BIOSes yet. It's not really rocket science, and I doubt it is patented.


It's coming. MSI and Gigglebyte both have something similiar now. And I hear EVGA will have one with the next chipset. Not sure about ASRock as I don't use their stuff.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> It's coming. MSI and Gigglebyte both have something similiar now. And I hear EVGA will have one with the next chipset. Not sure about ASRock as I don't use their stuff.


I would hope so. They're most likely losing a lot of sales just because of how important the SP rating is for binning CPUs efficiently.
Even if it's not the end-all of binning, it's still a very strong metric that can be used for comparison purposes.

MSI doesn't have anything of the sort right now. It's hypothetically possible to find the VIDs by enabling each core one-by-one and checking the BIOS, but the accuracy is questionable. Still better to field test.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Ichirou said:


> I would hope so. They're most likely losing a lot of sales just because of how important the SP rating is for binning CPUs efficiently.
> Even if it's not the end-all of binning, it's still a very strong metric that can be used for comparison purposes.
> 
> MSI doesn't have anything of the sort right now. It's hypothetically possible to find the VIDs by enabling each core one-by-one and checking the BIOS, but the accuracy is questionable. Still better to field test.


Its only on MEG, called "CPU Force".


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> You could probably eBay that for a starting price of around 1,000-1,200 GBP, shipping included.
> Make Best Offer available, and cover shipping to most places.
> Also try local and online markets and whatnot.
> 
> But I advise getting a new chip first, so you aren't left hanging in case you can't find a better one.
> 5.4 GHz all-core is still an insanely good chip, especially as a daily one. 5.5+ GHz daily isn't really realistic for most people.


What I will do in this case, is keep it for now. Buy some more check them and keep the better one and I might do it few times to see if I can get something good.


----------



## bscool

Strix d4 DR b die 4600. Depend on sticks, some sticks run geat 2 easier I saw the same thing on z590 Apex and Unify X. 

Gskill 4000c14 2x16 do not like gear 2 but the 44000c17 kit boots gear 2 easier. 4000c16-16-16 kits also worked better in gear 2 on z590 for me than the 4000c14 kit.

These are loose timings just showing it runs 4600 DR. Nothing special set in bios other than sa/vddq and dram voltages manually. They might be able to be set lower but just set them there and booted to test.


----------



## SSBrain

Most here have focused on all-core loads, but what is the absolute maximum voltage you guys would use for 1/2- core loads below default IccMax? My 12700K (which doesn't clock high as easily as with the 12900K/KS) can hit 5400 MHz on 1 core, but it needs something like 1.575V. Even though Intel specifies 1.72V as the maximum core voltage while all other parameters are also in check, it seems really too high even for me, so I normally run it with lower 1/2-core frequencies.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Yep 440w for mine too at around 1.38V set (1.35V die sense). Manages to squeak out 5.525/4.422. Hottest core hitting about 98C... shes toasty.
> View attachment 2558174


Before I give up, could you share your BIOS settings with me? I can't get the CPU to pull many watts not sure I'm doing right things in the BIOS


----------



## centvalny

Test 5700 and 7600


----------



## sugi0lover

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Before I give up, could you share your BIOS settings with me? I can't get the CPU to pull many watts not sure I'm doing right things in the BIOS


I shared my setup and cmo below just in case you need it.


sugi0lover said:


> I got the new P-core SP 115 12900K and oced at water temp 26C (Summer is coming)
> I usually turn e-cores off but wanted to test what this SP103 12900K can do with everything on.
> 
> [OC setup - Cine23 10 Min pass]
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP103, P115, E79) / all cores (P 5.5Ghz , E 4.3Ghz, Cache 4.5Ghz)
> ○ Ram : KLEVV Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 7200Mhz-30-40-40-26-305-2T
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0070)
> ○ Voltages (actual under load) : Vcore 1.279v / VDD 1.665v / VDDQ 1.590v / VDDQ TX 1.54 / MC 1.208v / SA 0.944v
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM)
> View attachment 2556761
> 
> View attachment 2556756
> 
> View attachment 2556757
> 
> 
> 
> You can see the real-time voltages,clocks, and temps during Cine23.





sugi0lover said:


> Here it is~
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 554345_7200c30.CMO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

sugi0lover said:


> I shared my setup and cmo below just in case you need it.


I tried it but not very accurately I think. I am using Z690 Formula will the settings from CMO accept on my mobo?


----------



## sugi0lover

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I tried it but not very accurately I think. I am using Z690 Formula will the settings from CMO accept on my mobo?


Oh. Sorry. I thought your mb is apex. It's not compatible with formula.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I tried it but not very accurately I think. I am using Z690 Formula will the settings from CMO accept on my mobo?


Could you give me a pointer on what to config to get my CPU to pull / best chance of stability for 5.5? It's a personal need.

I wanted an Apex but all models were 2021 with issues so I went for something more useful with TB ports etc.


----------



## sugi0lover

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Could you give me a pointer on what to config to get my CPU to pull / best chance of stability for 5.5? It's a personal need.
> 
> I wanted an Apex but all models were 2021 with issues so I went for something more useful with TB ports etc.


I will save my profile as text file tonight and send it to you, so you can read all my bios setups.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Before I give up, could you share your BIOS settings with me? I can't get the CPU to pull many watts not sure I'm doing right things in the BIOS


Im using a Z690 Dark motherboard so my bios settings wont be completely applicable to you. I just reran the test with hwinfo open so you can see my voltages etc. VR VOUT is die sense voltage and Vcore is obviously my Vcore that was set in bios. Clocks and stuff are visible for your perusal. 1st Pic is my "daily" 5.5/4.4 GHz OC 1.33V set in bios. 2nd pic is absolute max OC. 5.54/4.422 with 100.75 BCLK and 1.4V set. I use very little (around 30 mV) of droop probably similiar to your LLC6. Hope this was helpful


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Im using a Z690 Dark motherboard so my bios settings wont be completely applicable to you. I just reran the test with hwinfo open so you can see my voltages etc. VR VOUT is die sense voltage and Vcore is obviously my Vcore that was set in bios. Clocks and stuff are visible for your perusal. 1st Pic is my "daily" 5.5/4.4 GHz OC 1.33V set in bios. 2nd pic is absolute max OC. 5.54/4.422 with 100.75 BCLK and 1.4V set. I use very little droop probably similiar to your LLC6. Hope this was helpful
> View attachment 2558218
> 
> View attachment 2558217


Appreciate it. I'll give it a shot.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Im using a Z690 Dark motherboard so my bios settings wont be completely applicable to you. I just reran the test with hwinfo open so you can see my voltages etc. VR VOUT is die sense voltage and Vcore is obviously my Vcore that was set in bios. Clocks and stuff are visible for your perusal. 1st Pic is my "daily" 5.5/4.4 GHz OC 1.33V set in bios. 2nd pic is absolute max OC. 5.54/4.422 with 100.75 BCLK and 1.4V set. I use very little droop probably similiar to your LLC6. Hope this was helpful
> View attachment 2558218
> 
> View attachment 2558217


I think I may be able to pull it if I shove another 150W into the CPU to achieve 100mhz on each E and P cores. It's literally just for me to know it's a good chip that's all. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I think I may be able to pull it if I shove another 150W into the CPU to achieve 100mhz on each E and P cores. It's literally just for me to know it's a good chip that's all. Fingers crossed.


Just add more voltage then. That's the only way. Also I'm not sure the ASUS and EVGA mobos report the same power draw. My chips always pull alot more power on my evga boards vs my asus boards and they seem to score higher for the same clocks as well. So not sure what that's about.

Your chip is very good. Most 12900Ks struggle to do 5 2 GHz on cinebench. 5.4 is very very good. Esp with e cores at 4.3. Not many chips can do that.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Just add more voltage then. That's the only way. Also I'm not sure the ASUS and EVGA mobos report the same power draw. My chips always pull alot more power on my evga boards vs my asus boards and they seem to score higher for the same clocks as well. So not sure what that's about.
> 
> Your chip is very good. Most 12900Ks struggle to do 5 2 GHz on cinebench. 5.4 is very very good. Esp with e cores at 4.3. Not many chips can do that.


It's okay. I try to aim for the best.


----------



## fat4l

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Im using a Z690 Dark motherboard so my bios settings wont be completely applicable to you. I just reran the test with hwinfo open so you can see my voltages etc. VR VOUT is die sense voltage and Vcore is obviously my Vcore that was set in bios. Clocks and stuff are visible for your perusal. 1st Pic is my "daily" 5.5/4.4 GHz OC 1.33V set in bios. 2nd pic is absolute max OC. 5.54/4.422 with 100.75 BCLK and 1.4V set. I use very little (around 30 mV) of droop probably similiar to your LLC6. Hope this was helpful
> View attachment 2558218
> 
> View attachment 2558217


looking rly good.
Have you tried maxing out individual cores ?


----------



## Groove2013

bscool said:


> Strix d4 DR b die 4600. Depend on sticks, some sticks run geat 2 easier I saw the same thing on z590 Apex and Unify X.
> 
> Gskill 4000c14 2x16 do not like gear 2 but the 44000c17 kit boots gear 2 easier. 4000c16-16-16 kits also worked better in gear 2 on z590 for me than the 4000c14 kit.
> 
> These are loose timings just showing it runs 4600 DR. Nothing special set in bios other than sa/vddq and dram voltages manually. They might be able to be set lower but just set them there and booted to test.


So if one can't boot like more than 4266 or 4300 MHz in gear 2, there is a probability that it's not the motherboard or IMC, but sticks model dependent then.


----------



## Groove2013

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Probably due to BIOS. 0807-1304 were not quite good for the mem oc. 1404 has improved a lot.


0901 is the best, if you have a K(F).
1404 is slightly worse than 0901 in that regard, but it's the only choise if you have a KS.


----------



## david12900k

sugi0lover said:


> I shared my setup and cmo below just in case you need it.


I saw you set your AC_LL and DC_LL to 0.01. It was my understanding that in general, we should try to keep the DC_LL equal to the impedance of the LLC value (SO for LLC 7, DC_LL should be 0.24). Why did you do it this way?


----------



## sugi0lover

david12900k said:


> I saw you set your AC_LL and DC_LL to 0.01. It was my understanding that in general, we should try to keep the DC_LL equal to the impedance of the LLC value (SO for LLC 7, DC_LL should be 0.24). Why did you do it this way?


I read somewhere that 0.5 & below is good for lowering voltages and temp. I haven't tested it myself but 0.01 works fine without any problem for my system, so I keep it that way.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

fat4l said:


> looking rly good.
> Have you tried maxing out individual cores ?


Yeah any and all my cores individually will do 5.6 but only 1 of them can run at 5.6 during all core workloads on something like Cinebench. Kinda odd but I'm not complaining.


----------



## bscool

Groove2013 said:


> So if one can't boot like more than 4266 or 4300 MHz in gear 2, there is a probability that it's not the motherboard or IMC, but sticks model dependent then.


From what I have seen. I dont really mess with gear 2 just tried it as I put the 4400c17 sticks in to see how they do with 1404 bios/KS and I know from testing in the past they booted gear 2 easier than other sticks like the 4000c14 kit.


----------



## Ichirou

Does anyone here have their old 9th Gen direct die frame? Apparently, it could work for the 12th Gen as well. Would like to hear from anyone regarding whether that is true.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> Does anyone here have their old 9th Gen direct die frame? Apparently, it could work for the 12th Gen as well. Would like to hear from anyone regarding whether that is true.


it's absolutely not, for many obvious reasons.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> it's absolutely not, for many obvious reasons.


I wouldn't immediately discount it until it's been tested. Somebody else on Reddit has, albeit apparently it needs to be tightened extremely hard.
In the past, the 7th Gen frame could be used for another generation or two, so we might have a similar scenario here.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> I wouldn't immediately discount it until it's been tested. Somebody else on Reddit has, albeit apparently it needs to be tightened extremely hard.
> In the past, the 7th Gen frame could be used for another generation or two, so we might have a similar scenario here.


no, since physically impossible.


----------



## Ichirou

Did some 4x8 GB SR Samsung B-die tests.
If I just plug in an extra set of DIMMs into the other channel, no matter what I do (e.g. low frequency, Gear 2), it will not boot.
However, if I use MSI's Memory Try It! presets instead, it will train and boot.
The 3,600 MHz preset (the standard for four DIMMs this generation) will boot on Gear 1. I can't boot at any higher of a frequency, however.
I tried Gear 2 as well, and didn't get any meaningful results. It was pretty much hard locked for me at 3,600 MHz.
Although the QVL states that 4x8 GB SR is possible up to 4,133 MHz, that wasn't the case for me. It might've been due to me trying to use mixed kits.

I will test my 4x16 GB Micron B-die kit later to see if there is a difference because of it being a different die altogether, and not mixed kits.
There is a chance that the second channel slots might be garbage, but I kind of doubt it. I think it's really just a Samsung B-die limitation.
That's probably why you don't really see them with high frequency on Z690 motherboard QVLs.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Guys, what's the max safest voltage I can stick into my CPU using LLC4? I had 1.475V set in BIOS LLC4 and temps are very very low somewhat, but I don't know if voltage isn't killing the chip being so high. Or setting it 1.475V in BIOS makes it run less volts in actual OS.


----------



## SSBrain

@TheNaitsyrk
Many here will have different opinions, but my thinking is that any voltage up to the Intel-specified maximum value will be fine if overshoot and maximum current are also within specifications, and temperatures kept below the thermal throttling limit.

Here's the catch, though: while the Intel-specified maximum core voltage is much higher than what most people would use (1.72V as the absolute max, +10% overshoot max for 500 µs), the maximum current (IccMax) is relatively low compared to typical overclocking values, which means that current throttling (EDP / Electrical Design Point throttling) is almost certainly guaranteed in heavy overclocking scenarios.

Using the CPU with higher currents than specifications but lower voltages will result in an undefined condition where it might still slowly degrade it over time, although how quickly nobody knows exactly, which is how a "commonly accepted" maximum safe value of ~1.40-1.45V came to exist—and that's probably what other users will reply.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

SSBrain said:


> @TheNaitsyrk
> Many here will have different opinions, but my thinking is that any voltage up to the Intel-specified maximum value will be fine if overshoot and maximum current are also within specifications, and temperatures kept below the thermal throttling limit.
> 
> Here's the catch, though: while the Intel-specified maximum core voltage is much higher than what most people would use (1.72V as the absolute max, +10% overshoot max for 500 µs), the maximum current (IccMax) is relatively low compared to typical overclocking values, which means that current throttling (EDP / Electrical Design Point throttling) is almost certainly guaranteed in heavy overclocking scenarios.
> 
> Using the CPU with higher currents than specifications but lower voltages will result in an undefined condition where it might still slowly degrade it over time, although how quickly nobody knows exactly, which is how a "commonly accepted" maximum safe value of ~1.40-1.45V came to exist—and that's probably what other users will reply.


Gotcha. So if my actual voltage in let's say HWInfo isn't going past 1.45V then I'm fine?

Because obviously in BIOS it's set to 1.475 but it's less in actual runs I believe.


----------



## SSBrain

For actual voltage applied to the CPU under load you have to look at "Vcore" or better "VR VOUT" if you have it listed in HWInfo. These are supposed to show the output from real voltage sensors.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

SSBrain said:


> For actual voltage applied to the CPU under load you have to look at "Vcore" or better "VR VOUT" if you have it listed in HWInfo. These are supposed to show the output from real voltage sensors.


Gotcha. If that will say let's say 1.35V or 1.4V I can increase it a bit more in BIOS because I would still be between the safe values of 1.4V - 1.45V for the CPU I suppose as read via HWInfo?


----------



## splmann

sugi0lover said:


> I will save my profile as text file tonight and send it to you, so you can read all my bios setups.


Hi can you send it also to me ? 

many thanks


----------



## SSBrain

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Gotcha. If that will say let's say 1.35V or 1.4V I can increase it a bit more in BIOS because I would still be between the safe values of 1.4V - 1.45V for the CPU I suppose as read via HWInfo?


If you can cool the CPU with 1.40–1.45V for all-core loads I would say go for it, but keep again in mind that there's no empirical data on CPU degradation behind this "commonly accepted value". Other overclockers may have different opinions and consider 1.4V as the safe maximum.

For what it's worth, on my own i7-12700K I currently use up to about 1.52V for 2-core loads at 5.3 GHz and air cooling (yes, not a good CPU compared to the various i9-12900K/KS found around here). I don't think it will degrade since there are other limits in place, but will see over time.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

SSBrain said:


> If you can cool the CPU with 1.40–1.45V for all-core loads I would say go for it, but keep again in mind that there's no empirical data on CPU degradation behind this "commonly accepted value". Other overclockers may have different opinions and consider 1.4V as the safe maximum.
> 
> For what it's worth, on my own i7-12700K I currently use up to about 1.52V for 2-core loads at 5.3 GHz and air cooling (yes, not a good CPU compared to the various i9-12900K/KS found around here). I don't think it will degrade since there are other limits in place, but will see over time.


I see. Thanks for this. Yeah my CPU isn't that good, it needs a fair bit of voltage for 5.4 (it's not hot) but yeah. I already placed it on eBay hope it sells. Delid should help it sell. Surprisingly it does 5.8Ghz on 2 cores but I just can't get it stable for the love of God using per core OC. Nothing is working so I just give up. It won't fail in single core but it will in multi every time.


----------



## matique

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I see. Thanks for this. Yeah my CPU isn't that good, it needs a fair bit of voltage for 5.4 (it's not hot) but yeah. I already placed it on eBay hope it sells. Delid should help it sell. Surprisingly it does 5.8Ghz on 2 cores but I just can't get it stable for the love of God using per core OC. Nothing is working so I just give up. It won't fail in single core but it will in multi every time.
> View attachment 2558413


Facing a similar situation lol. This is for TVB on MSI. I set a 57x all core ratio, and use tvb to set conditions. for 8-core load <50c = 56x, >50c <60c = 55x, >60c = 54x. It would do this perfectly fine for cinebench etc under all core load. But because i'm delidded, in game i am under 50c for all cores. This would proc it to go 56x on all cores and I would proceed to crash in game. In the end I gave up and now run a static 54x all core 1.4v LLC6, adaptive voltage with an offset of -0.06v. Under all core load i'm at 1.25v i think.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

matique said:


> Facing a similar situation lol. This is for TVB on MSI. I set a 57x all core ratio, and use tvb to set conditions. for 8-core load <50c = 56x, >50c <60c = 55x, >60c = 54x. It would do this perfectly fine for cinebench etc under all core load. But because i'm delidded, in game i am under 50c for all cores. This would proc it to go 56x on all cores and I would proceed to crash in game. In the end I gave up and now run a static 54x all core 1.4v LLC6, adaptive voltage with an offset of -0.06v. Under all core load i'm at 1.25v i think.


My one is about the same. The only thing that truly works is XTU where 2 cores boost 5.8 no problem and other cores are 5.4 I can't do anything else. Or BIOS static 5.4 4.3 46 Cache


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

matique said:


> Facing a similar situation lol. This is for TVB on MSI. I set a 57x all core ratio, and use tvb to set conditions. for 8-core load <50c = 56x, >50c <60c = 55x, >60c = 54x. It would do this perfectly fine for cinebench etc under all core load. But because i'm delidded, in game i am under 50c for all cores. This would proc it to go 56x on all cores and I would proceed to crash in game. In the end I gave up and now run a static 54x all core 1.4v LLC6, adaptive voltage with an offset of -0.06v. Under all core load i'm at 1.25v i think.


Currently relidding it as well but last time I tried it didn't end so well. Temps were higher than the stock IHS so I'll keep on trying maybe I can get it right.


----------



## S4squatch

After about two weeks of tinkering with the settings I think I have found a good very very mild OC for my needs. First of all here is my system in a Define R6 cooled using Noctua fans and NH-D15 cooler. Ambient temperature in my room 22-24°C depending on the day.









My settings now:
P: 53x1 – 52x2 – 51x4 – 50x8
E: 40x8
Full load @ P-50x/E-40x
PL1 and PL2 power limits at stock 241W.
SVID behavior AUTO
Global adaptive voltage + 0.010V (Prime95 needed this, otherwise gave rounding errors after about an hour)
Memory: 6200 MT/s 30-39-39-71 1.435V

Karhu 24h:









Cinebench R23 60min:









Aida64 8h:









Prime95 blend 2h (will hit temp and power limits --> slight down clocks). I am OK with this because in normal usage it will never hit this hard.









Finally I let Cyberpunk run overnight in a CPU intensive scene for 7h. Case door closed for this test.









By the way, I find it odd that the minimum core temps are showing readings well below ambient. Why is this? Is it a bug in HWinfo or a calibration error or something in the CPU.


----------



## fat4l

They just shipped my supercool direct die block...wooo000t


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Gotcha. So if my actual voltage in let's say HWInfo isn't going past 1.45V then I'm fine?
> 
> Because obviously in BIOS it's set to 1.475 but it's less in actual runs I believe.
> View attachment 2558412


I wouldn't go above 1.40V for 12th Gen. 12th Gen needs like 0.1V less compared to previous generations to achieve the same clocks, so long as the chip is at least average.
Most people here try to keep it under 1.25-1.35V max.

12th Gen uses 10nm like the previous generation, and there is not enough empirical evidence thus far about long-term degradation for either generation.
I'd play it safe and not try to daily 5.5+ GHz. Nobody here's actually doing that outside of simply benchmarking.


----------



## Tadaschi

fat4l said:


> They just shipped my supercool direct die block...wooo000t


I have one and it is amazing, i already delid and had the rockit copper ihs before, the supercool direct die drop 10C over the copper. 12900ks P5.4 E4.2 R4.0 max 84C Cinebench r23 10min
The trick with direct die to keep the temp really low is flow rate. I keep 176 l/h that is D5 100% with 2 360 rads and EKWB 3090 with active backplate
have fun


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

fat4l said:


> They just shipped my supercool direct die block...wooo000t


Where can I buy this?

I sold my CPU for the same price I bought it for via eBay so I can take some new shots at this.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Where can I buy this?
> 
> I sold my CPU for the same price I bought it for via eBay so I can take some new shots at this.


It's some Thai web store. Pretty sure this:








Direct Die


Direct Die




www.supercoolcomputer.com





My only peeve is that the maker of it pretty much has a monopoly for now, as there is no generic direct die frame available yet.
That means you _have_ to get his (arguably ugly) watercooling block, and cannot use your own. It also takes a month or more to ship, assuming there is stock.
And you don't know what the quality of the blocks are either. They could end up breaking/leaking in the future.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Ichirou said:


> That means you _have_ to get his (arguably ugly) watercooling block, and cannot use your own. It also takes a month or more to ship, assuming there is stock.
> And you don't know what the quality of the blocks are either. They could end up breaking/leaking in the future


Looks are definitely subjective, but the performance is unmatched.
Still running my direct-die block trouble free on my 10900k (and on my 12900k). I'd argue that supercool's nickel plating is among the most durable as well.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

I just noticed that CPU during multi core loads only eats 1.305V on all core load. My setting in BIOS is 1.475V. why is that? At idle it will eat like 1.439V but during bench it will eat only 1.305? Shouldn't it eat more? Perhaps that's why my OC is failing?


----------



## Bruce Wayne

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I just noticed that CPU during multi core loads only eats 1.305V on all core load. My setting in BIOS is 1.475V. why is that? At idle it will eat like 1.439V but during bench it will eat only 1.305? Shouldn't it eat more? Perhaps that's why my OC is failing?
> View attachment 2558484


Did you check temperature while Cinebenching? Maybe your CPU is throttling?


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I just noticed that CPU during multi core loads only eats 1.305V on all core load. My setting in BIOS is 1.475V. why is that? At idle it will eat like 1.439V but during bench it will eat only 1.305? Shouldn't it eat more? Perhaps that's why my OC is failing?
> View attachment 2558484


There's a mathematical formula involved in regards to Vcore on idle, on load, and LLC.
If you just want the most simplest approach to overclocking, set LLC to max for zero Vdroop/overshoot.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> There's a mathematical formula involved in regards to Vcore on idle, on load, and LLC.
> If you just want the most simplest approach to overclocking, set LLC to max for zero Vdroop/overshoot.


So LLC7 let's say at 1.375? As a good first test?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Oh yes my relid finally worked as well. Which is good. No idea what was wrong


----------



## CENS

does anyone have a KS with p-cores sp103-105 willing to sell? (must not be delidded)


----------



## sugi0lover

fat4l said:


> They just shipped my supercool direct die block...wooo000t


Can you tell me when you ordered it? I am still waiting for it.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> So LLC7 let's say at 1.375? As a good first test?


The primary concern of LLC is voltage overshoot. You don't want to burn the chip from the voltage spiking up too much.
Vdroop isn't as much of aconcern because... the voltage just drops. So that only leads to instability at most.

You're free to max out LLC so long as you monitor the maximum Vcore that's being used in HWInfo. If it doesn't spike over your set Vcore by too much, it's fine.
But ideally, you want the on-load Vcore usage to be pretty much what you set.

Different motherboards handle LLC differently, so you'll have to test each LLC setting to see what yours ends up as.
I personally keep LLC at a setting that flattens Vcore, or only goes above by a little. So that's typically max, or a step or two below.
Turn on adaptive voltage, as well as BIOS settings to scale Vcore usage based on load and not constantly at your set Vcore, and you're golden.


----------



## nickolp1974

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Guys, what's the max safest voltage I can stick into my CPU using LLC4? I had 1.475V set in BIOS LLC4 and temps are very very low somewhat, but I don't know if voltage isn't killing the chip being so high. Or setting it 1.475V in BIOS makes it run less volts in actual OS.


With your superior cooling 1.7v with ease


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

nickolp1974 said:


> With your superior cooling 1.7v with ease


This chip is really weird... I don't think I'll be happy with it. Keep on binning.


----------



## SSBrain

If you're using an Asus Z690 board, LLC4 should imply a VRM impedance of 0.98 mOhm, which in simple terms means that voltage should naturally decrease with load by 0.098V for every 100 Amps of current into the CPU.

Assuming CPU-Z readings are correct (which might not be the case) and fixed voltages, for voltage to drop from 1.475V to 1.305V it means that the CPU was using 173A of current on average and 225.8W at 1.305V under load.

Other values I found listed (will not be the same for every motherboard vendor):



> LLC1: 1.75 milliohms
> LLC2: 1.46 milliohms
> LLC3: 1.1 milliohms
> LLC4: 0.98 milliohms
> LLC5: 0.73 milliohms
> LLC6: 0.49 milliohms
> LLC7: 0.24 milliohms
> LLC8: 0.01 milliohms (flat).


----------



## fat4l

Ichirou said:


> I wouldn't go above 1.40V for 12th Gen. 12th Gen needs like 0.1V less compared to previous generations to achieve the same clocks, so long as the chip is at least average.
> Most people here try to keep it under 1.25-1.35V max.
> 
> 12th Gen uses 10nm like the previous generation, and there is not enough empirical evidence thus far about long-term degradation for either generation.
> I'd play it safe and not try to daily 5.5+ GHz. Nobody here's actually doing that outside of simply benchmarking.


U mean 1.4v under load right ?


----------



## fat4l

sugi0lover said:


> Can you tell me when you ordered it? I am still waiting for it.


14.4.22 , shipped yesterday ..so after 13 days


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

fat4l said:


> 14.4.22 , shipped yesterday ..so after 13 days


I just bought it too with fast shipping. Might be worth it.


----------



## jomama22

sugi0lover said:


> Can you tell me when you ordered it? I am still waiting for it.


Mine just shipped yesterday as well. Ordered mine April 7th from his webstore.


----------



## 050

Got my 12900KS installed, looks like the sp is 91 (96p, 81e). I ran it with MCE disabled and it hits 240w appropriately and ~1.32-1.34v during an all core r23 load. The loop is decent but only 240+360 rad so it does saturate during the 10m r23 run and temps just touch 100c. During standard use and gaming however, it seems perfectly fine so that's good - can't really make the loop bigger without a completely different case and design. Using a corsair xc7 pro (fins 'horizontal') with Noctua nt-h2 and it seems pretty decent so far. I also haven't done any washer mod or anything to the socket.










Are these VIDs high? I am guessing it is the estimate of what it would take to run each of the cores at 5500. 4 and 5 are the best cores (and makes sense, they have the lower VIDs.)

Based on this, does this seem like a pretty decent chip or is an sp of 96 low for the 12900ks? I have read that the 12900k sp ratings are a little bit different.


----------



## jomama22

050 said:


> Got my 12900KS installed, looks like the sp is 91 (96p, 81e). I ran it with MCE disabled and it hits 240w appropriately and ~1.32-1.34v during an all core r23 load. The loop is decent but only 240+360 rad so it does saturate during the 10m r23 run and temps just touch 100c. During standard use and gaming however, it seems perfectly fine so that's good - can't really make the loop bigger without a completely different case and design. Using a corsair xc7 pro (fins 'horizontal') with Noctua nt-h2 and it seems pretty decent so far. I also haven't done any washer mod or anything to the socket.
> 
> View attachment 2558728
> 
> 
> Are these VIDs high? I am guessing it is the estimate of what it would take to run each of the cores at 5500. 4 and 5 are the best cores (and makes sense, they have the lower VIDs.)
> 
> Based on this, does this seem like a pretty decent chip or is an sp of 96 low for the 12900ks? I have read that the 12900k sp ratings are a little bit different.


You need to test it. SP really doesn't mean much and shouldn't have any weight put on it.


----------



## MikeS3000

Ichirou said:


> The primary concern of LLC is voltage overshoot. You don't want to burn the chip from the voltage spiking up too much.
> Vdroop isn't as much of aconcern because... the voltage just drops. So that only leads to instability at most.
> 
> You're free to max out LLC so long as you monitor the maximum Vcore that's being used in HWInfo. If it doesn't spike over your set Vcore by too much, it's fine.
> But ideally, you want the on-load Vcore usage to be pretty much what you set.
> 
> Different motherboards handle LLC differently, so you'll have to test each LLC setting to see what yours ends up as.
> I personally keep LLC at a setting that flattens Vcore, or only goes above by a little. So that's typically max, or a step or two below.
> Turn on adaptive voltage, as well as BIOS settings to scale Vcore usage based on load and not constantly at your set Vcore, and you're golden.


I think though the problem with high llc is that you're not going to observe these spikes without an oscilloscope. Buildzoid has made some videos on this in the past where lower LLC is actually beneficial to stability and longevity of your hardware.


----------



## acoustic

Ichirou said:


> The primary concern of LLC is voltage overshoot. You don't want to burn the chip from the voltage spiking up too much.
> Vdroop isn't as much of aconcern because... the voltage just drops. So that only leads to instability at most.
> 
> You're free to max out LLC so long as you monitor the maximum Vcore that's being used in HWInfo. If it doesn't spike over your set Vcore by too much, it's fine.
> But ideally, you want the on-load Vcore usage to be pretty much what you set.
> 
> Different motherboards handle LLC differently, so you'll have to test each LLC setting to see what yours ends up as.
> I personally keep LLC at a setting that flattens Vcore, or only goes above by a little. So that's typically max, or a step or two below.
> Turn on adaptive voltage, as well as BIOS settings to scale Vcore usage based on load and not constantly at your set Vcore, and you're golden.


You won't see the issues of high LLC in software because the transients are so fast. LLC that flattens is too much, imo. vDroop is healthy for the chip and you should have some.


----------



## SSBrain

By using adaptive voltages and setting AC Loadline to the same impedance of the VRM loadline (i.e. the LLC) it's possible to have a flat voltage response at lower LLC setting.

For example if the LLC setting used has an impedance of 0.40 mOhm, one would also set AC/DC at 0.40 mOhm, and then adjust final voltages only using VF offsets (instead of tweaking AC Loadline as usually done).

However, I don't know if this actually yields advantages in terms of transient voltage spikes.


----------



## assist726

Picked up a binned 12900KS recently and can hit 5.4P 4.2E all core CB23 30146 score @ 1.29V 76C 300W according to HWInfo

6x360x60mm custom loop + Z690 Unify X

Few questions I have:

The 300W seems much higher than normal as I see others in the 250W range, is this something to be worried about?

It seems like I should have the thermal headroom to hit 5.5P but no matter what I do with the voltage it just crashes as soon as I start Cinebench, any suggestions for what other settings I should play around with to make this work?


----------



## assist726

fat4l said:


> Well I can sell my chip sp 105 for p cores haha , 96/105/79.
> 
> View attachment 2557435
> 
> 
> Which sites are they selling it on then? I'm fishing for an uber high SP chip. Thanks


Ahhh sorry for the late reply, it's an app called XianYu. You would need a chinese bank account if you wanted to purchase anything unfortunately


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

assist726 said:


> Picked up a binned 12900KS recently and can hit 5.4P 4.2E all core CB23 30146 score @ 1.29V 76C 300W according to HWInfo
> 
> 6x360x60mm custom loop + Z690 Unify X
> 
> Few questions I have:
> 
> The 300W seems much higher than normal as I see others in the 250W range, is this something to be worried about?
> 
> It seems like I should have the thermal headroom to hit 5.5P but no matter what I do with the voltage it just crashes as soon as I start Cinebench, any suggestions for what other settings I should play around with to make this work?


Hard to determine ur headroom based solely on voltage as most mobos don't measure it via socket sense. Most chips won't do 5.5 GHz even with p cores disabled much less when running the e cores simultaneously. Try disabling e cores and see if you the temp reduction allows you to push voltages enough to run 5.5 GHz. Then re-enable the e cores and see if you can run that level of voltage with e cores enabled.

It's just a temp problem. If you can't run a desired frequency at about 1.33V (diensense) then you probably just can't run it.

I will say, 300w is NOTHING. You probably need alot more voltage. For my chip to consistsntly pass R23 at 5.5 w/ e cores at 4.4 I need 1.335V set (~1.30V die sense) when under load which makes my CPU run in excess of 400w.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

assist726 said:


> Picked up a binned 12900KS recently and can hit 5.4P 4.2E all core CB23 30146 score @ 1.29V 76C 300W according to HWInfo
> 
> 6x360x60mm custom loop + Z690 Unify X
> 
> Few questions I have:
> 
> The 300W seems much higher than normal as I see others in the 250W range, is this something to be worried about?
> 
> It seems like I should have the thermal headroom to hit 5.5P but no matter what I do with the voltage it just crashes as soon as I start Cinebench, any suggestions for what other settings I should play around with to make this work?


You may try the volts core by core to find the correct vid table.


----------



## assist726

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Hard to determine ur headroom based solely on voltage as most mobos don't measure it via socket sense. Most chips won't do 5.5 GHz even with p cores disabled much less when running the e cores simultaneously. Try disabling e cores and see if you the temp reduction allows you to push voltages enough to run 5.5 GHz. Then re-enable the e cores and see if you can run that level of voltage with e cores enabled.
> 
> It's just a temp problem. If you can't run a desired frequency at about 1.33V (diensense) then you probably just can't run it.
> 
> I will say, 300w is NOTHING. You probably need alot more voltage. For my chip to consistsntly pass R23 at 5.5 w/ e cores at 4.4 I need 1.335V set (~1.30V die sense) when under load which makes my CPU run in excess of 400w.


Yes I've tried increments of 0.2 all the way up to 1.4V set. From what I've read most people suggest loadline level 8 which drops off the most towards the right side of the graph, not sure if this is worth playing around with?

I was trying to say 300W seemed high for 1.29V 5.4, not overall.


----------



## assist726

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> You may try the volts core by core to find the correct vid table.


How would I go about doing this? Check volts core by core + single core assigned benchmark?


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

assist726 said:


> Yes I've tried increments of 0.2 all the way up to 1.4V set. From what I've read most people suggest loadline level 8 which drops off the most towards the right side of the graph, not sure if this is worth playing around with?
> 
> I was trying to say 300W seemed high for 1.29V 5.4, not overall.


Yeah what matters is the voltage maintained under load. 1.4V set with an 80mV droop is the same as 1.35V with a 30 mV droop. Both result in 1.32V load voltage. If you're crashing In something then more voltage is what you need. Voltage is the cure for instability. But obviously more voltage means more power draw which means more heat. Eventually it becomes uncoolable. All about threading the needle.

My strix board doesn't have a die sense voltage and definitely has ALOT more vdroop than my Z690 Dark board. The dark I set 1.335V for 5.5 (~1.30 die sense) where as the Asus I have to set over 1.45V to generate the same level of heat and get the same scores. 

Also pay attention to scores. Static voltages seem to score much better in things like cinebench. If I run default settings in bios and then use XTU to run 5.5 GHz it uses less voltage, and alot less power (340w or so) but it also scores far worse. 30500ish vs 31900+ when I run static voltages where the cpu pulls upwards of 420w. 

Ymmv but make sure ur scores are lining up correctly.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

assist726 said:


> How would I go about doing this? Check volts core by core + single core assigned benchmark?


Yep, try one core at a time, and leave other cores at 800MHz or such.


----------



## SSBrain

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Also pay attention to scores. Static voltages seem to score much better in things like cinebench. If I run default settings in bios and then use XTU to run 5.5 GHz it uses less voltage, and alot less power (340w or so) but it also scores far worse. 30500ish vs 31900+ when I run static voltages where the cpu pulls upwards of 420w.


Results changing depending on whether you've set Adaptive or fixed voltages sound like they could be the effect of CEP / "Current Excursion Protection" being enabled, which throttles the CPU down if load voltage is considered to be too low. Keep in mind that it's not the same as "Overcurrent Protection". Also, reported CPU package power is likely to be inaccurate, even hugely so, if you haven't set up DC Loadline correctly to match the LLC setting used.

As for die / socket voltage sense, I think the latter is meant to be used when one wants to match readings with those that can be measured on the back of the motherboard with a multimeter.


----------



## affxct

Can we do higher than 51X multiplier in AVX workloads now, or is there still a bug?


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

affxct said:


> Can we do higher than 51X multiplier in AVX workloads now, or is there still a bug?


Definitely can do AVX at over 51x multipliers now.


----------



## affxct

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Definitely can do AVX at over 51x multipliers now.


Do you perhaps know what changed? 🤔


----------



## fat4l

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Yeah what matters is the voltage maintained under load. 1.4V set with an 80mV droop is the same as 1.35V with a 30 mV droop. Both result in 1.32V load voltage. If you're crashing In something then more voltage is what you need. Voltage is the cure for instability. But obviously more voltage means more power draw which means more heat. Eventually it becomes uncoolable. All about threading the needle.
> 
> My strix board doesn't have a die sense voltage and definitely has ALOT more vdroop than my Z690 Dark board. The dark I set 1.335V for 5.5 (~1.30 die sense) where as the Asus I have to set over 1.45V to generate the same level of heat and get the same scores.
> 
> Also pay attention to scores. Static voltages seem to score much better in things like cinebench. If I run default settings in bios and then use XTU to run 5.5 GHz it uses less voltage, and alot less power (340w or so) but it also scores far worse. 30500ish vs 31900+ when I run static voltages where the cpu pulls upwards of 420w.
> 
> Ymmv but make sure ur scores are lining up correctly.


When you compared strix vs dark, so settings did u have to use on strix(bios voltage + llc and load voltage socket sense under load?) to run 55x wit hall cores enabled?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

fat4l said:


> 14.4.22 , shipped yesterday ..so after 13 days


How long did it take for it to be shipped? I paid extra for the fastest delivery as well. Also, did you get a confirmation email as well by any chance because I didn't.


----------



## fat4l

I just got my new chip here.
Can do R20/R23, with 26C water
5.3G 1.25V bios LLC6, 1.217v socket sense(asus)
5.4G 1.32V bios LLC6, 1.279v socket sense(asus)
5.5G 1.43V bios LLC6, 1.385v socket sense(asus)

At 5.5G I'm getting to 92C so ... Will need to delid + direct die soon 

Finally a chip that can do 5.5G. (p sp is 102 only but its better than my p 105).




TheNaitsyrk said:


> How long did it take for it to be shipped? I paid extra for the fastest delivery as well. Also, did you get a confirmation email as well by any chance because I didn't.


13 days after clearing the payment. I used fast shipping too.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

fat4l said:


> I just got my new chip here.
> Can do R20/R23, with 26C water
> 5.3G 1.25V bios LLC6, 1.217v socket sense(asus)
> 5.4G 1.32V bios LLC6, 1.279v socket sense(asus)
> 5.5G 1.43V bios LLC6, 1.385v socket sense(asus)
> 
> At 5.5G I'm getting to 92C so ... Will need to delid + direct die soon
> 
> Finally a chip that can do 5.5G. (p sp is 102 only but its better than my p 105).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 13 days after clearing the payment. I used fast shipping too.


I see. I just bought it now and yeah I paid PayPal credit so in case anything happens I'm backed up.

Edit: did you get a confirmation email when you purchased? I didn't get anything.

Where did you get such chip? I'm basically binning myself now.

Thanks for the setting for the OC as well. Ill try then out as baseline for 5.5Ghz chip


----------



## fat4l

I was binning myself too but couldn't get a chip that could do 5.5g. Not I just need to cool it down and delid it and use liquid metal plus direct die so we can do it even with less volts.
The best I found was 5.4G 1.335V llc6 1.305 socket sense r20 pass. Couldn't do 5.5G ..maybe only I if cooled it down


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

fat4l said:


> I just got my new chip here.
> Can do R20/R23, with 26C water
> 5.3G 1.25V bios LLC6, 1.217v socket sense(asus)
> 5.4G 1.32V bios LLC6, 1.279v socket sense(asus)
> 5.5G 1.43V bios LLC6, 1.385v socket sense(asus)
> 
> At 5.5G I'm getting to 92C so ... Will need to delid + direct die soon
> 
> Finally a chip that can do 5.5G. (p sp is 102 only but its better than my p 105).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 13 days after clearing the payment. I used fast shipping too.


Curious what kind of power draw you were seeing there? Temps sound similar to mine maybe ur 2-3C warmer on temps.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

fat4l said:


> I was binning myself too but couldn't get a chip that could do 5.5g. Not I just need to cool it down and delid it and use liquid metal plus direct die so we can do it even with less volts.
> The best I found was 5.4G 1.335V llc6 1.305 socket sense r20 pass. Couldn't do 5.5G ..maybe only I if cooled it down


Where did you get a binned chip from?

Also, I bought another sample but obviously chances rather low for a good sample but I'll give it a couple of tries


----------



## fat4l

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Where did you get a binned chip from?
> 
> Also, I bought another sample but obviously chances rather low for a good sample but I'll give it a couple of tries


from NIK from germany


----------



## fat4l

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Curious what kind of power draw you were seeing there? Temps sound similar to mine maybe ur 2-3C warmer on temps.


not really sure as that was just a quic krun before work  will test tomorrow again maybe if I have time


----------



## sugi0lover

hope my coming direct die kit let y-cruncher below 52s.
At the moment, this is what my pc can do at normal water temp.

[Hwinfo ran a little after y-cruncher to check the water temp]


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> hope my coming direct die kit let y-cruncher below 52s.
> At the moment, this is what my pc can do at normal water temp.
> 
> [Hwinfo ran a little after y-cruncher to check the water temp]
> View attachment 2558914


What batch is your 12900K?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> What batch is your 12900K?


X131K199


----------



## Exilon

How high have you guys tried setting CPU L2 voltage with E-cores on? I'm currently running 1.4V for ring at 4.4GHz and it hasn't bombed out on me yet, but we'll see if that holds.


----------



## david12900k

Has anyone seen any of the new Thermal Grizzly 12th Gen Contact frames available for purchase? I saw one on a german website, but they dont ship to the US. Thermal Grizzly High Performance Cooling Solutions - CPU Contact Frame

It claims it can lower temps up to 7c, so that might be enough to stabilize 5.5 all core OC on my 12900ks


----------



## Ichirou

david12900k said:


> Has anyone seen any of the new Thermal Grizzly 12th Gen Contact frames available for purchase? I saw one on a german website, but they dont ship to the US. Thermal Grizzly High Performance Cooling Solutions - CPU Contact Frame
> 
> It claims it can lower temps up to 7c, so that might be enough to stabilize 5.5 all core OC on my 12900ks


Why not just delid?
And there are knockoff frames available on AliExpress.


----------



## marti69

i did a direct die but with an ekwaterblock i removed the cpu socket holder temps are great now

12900ks sp87 (p sp93) :/
1.27v in bios llc7 1.224v load
5.4ghz p pcore 4.3ghz E core


----------



## david12900k

Ichirou said:


> Why not just delid?
> And there are knockoff frames available on AliExpress.


Delid is a lot more risky in my opinion. With the socket at least you aren't touching the CPU at all


----------



## sugi0lover

Since direct die kit is not coming any soon, My 12900K got delided. 
At water temp 25, the max core temp is only 75C. I think voltages can be a little lower.
hope direct die drop it to below 70C.

[CineR23 10Min Pass]
○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / P Cores 5.5Ghz / E Cores 4.3Ghz / Cache 4.5Ghz 
○ Ram : Klevv Hynix 4800 CL40 
○ Ram OC : 7200Mhz-30-41-40-26-305-2T (Gear 2) 
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0090)
○ Voltages (Unde load) : Vcore 1.261v / VDD 1.665v / VDDQ 1.590v / VDDQ TX 1.54 / MC 1.314v / SA 1.136v 
○ Water Temp : 25C
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro


----------



## Ichirou

marti69 said:


> i did a direct die but with an ekwaterblock i removed the cpu socket holder temps are great now
> 
> 12900ks sp87 (p sp93) :/
> 1.27v in bios llc7 1.224v load
> 5.4ghz p pcore 4.3ghz E core
> 
> View attachment 2558959
> View attachment 2558960


How did you do your delid without a die frame? Would like to know.


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> How did you do your delid without a die frame? Would like to know.


My friend has Rockit delid tool, so he did it for me.


----------



## marti69

sugi0lover said:


> Since direct die kit is not coming any soon, My 12900K got delided.
> At water temp 25, the max core temp is only 75C. I think voltages can be a little lower.
> hope direct die drop it to below 70C.
> 
> [CineR23 10Min Pass]
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP103) / P Cores 5.5Ghz / E Cores 4.3Ghz / Cache 4.5Ghz
> ○ Ram : Klevv Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 7200Mhz-30-41-40-26-305-2T (Gear 2)
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0090)
> ○ Voltages (Unde load) : Vcore 1.261v / VDD 1.665v / VDDQ 1.590v / VDDQ TX 1.54 / MC 1.314v / SA 1.136v
> ○ Water Temp : 25C
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro
> 
> View attachment 2558962


great chip unfortunatly for me i have bad 12900ks sp 87 (p core93) but its nice to see that direct die helps a lot here another shot with 5.5ghz pcore 4.4ghz ecores my water temp is 26c costum loop on a 1000d 1.35v on bios llc7 1.304v under load (i coundnt do even 5.4ghz at any voltage before deliding)


----------



## sugi0lover

marti69 said:


> great chip unfortunatly for me i have bad 12900ks sp 87 (p core93) but its nice to see that direct die helps a lot here another shot with 5.5ghz pcore 4.4ghz ecores my water temp is 26c costum loop on a 1000d 1.35v on bios llc7 1.304v under load (i coundnt do even 5.4ghz at any voltage before deliding)
> View attachment 2558965
> View attachment 2558966


Good job! Your water temp is 26c and your minimum core temps are below 20c. How?


----------



## marti69

sugi0lover said:


> Good job! Your water temp is 26c and your minimum core temps are below 20c. How?


thank you, i have no idea why apex gives this readings below ambient


----------



## sugi0lover

marti69 said:


> thank you, i have no idea why apex gives this readings below ambient
> View attachment 2558968
> 
> View attachment 2558969


Interesting. Maybe direct die thing? I will test the temps when I have direct die. Keep up the good work! 👍


----------



## marti69

sugi0lover said:


> Interesting. Maybe direct die thing? I will test the temps when I have direct die. Keep up the good work! 👍


thank you bro, im looking to buy a binned 12900ks p core 100+ im curious to see how better it will get with a better chip


----------



## sugi0lover

marti69 said:


> thank you bro, im looking to buy a binned 12900ks p core 100+ im curious to see how better it will get with a better chip


My friend has P Sp 108 12900KS and it needs 0.03v higher for the same clock than mine.


----------



## S4squatch

sugi0lover said:


> Interesting. Maybe direct die thing? I will test the temps when I have direct die. Keep up the good work! 👍


Mine does the same. I am on air using NH-D15. Ambient 23C some cores show like 16C or 20C low temps. So confusing. I am running APEX, no delid or anything.


----------



## marti69

sugi0lover said:


> My friend has P Sp 108 12900KS and it needs 0.03v higher for the same clock than mine.


you have the best 12900k i have seen lol.


----------



## SoldierRBT

sugi0lover said:


> My friend has P Sp 108 12900KS and it needs 0.03v higher for the same clock than mine.


Do you know what yours needed for R23 10min P53 E42 R44 before delid? Your friend Sp 108 I believe it was 1.199v max temp 78C. My SP87 needs 1.181v 80C.

Waiting for the thermal grizzly cpu contact frame to improve temps a little more and push 5.4GHz with comfortable temps.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> X131K199


Question: Does anyone at your Korean forums have any information about 12900K Batch X202?


----------



## fat4l

Delid almost finished hihi


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

So Amazon sent me a used CPU. You can see marks on the IHS from when it was installed. It was just resealed. I can return it at the least easily.

Sample: 90 P-Cores and 76 E-Cores. Literally bottom of the bottom.


----------



## SSBrain

By any chance, are the marks a grid-like pattern?


----------



## sugi0lover

marti69 said:


> you have the best 12900k i have seen lol.


Thanks, but I have seen some other good 12900K like SP104 (I owned it before) and SP105 (a guy at Korean PC forum).



SoldierRBT said:


> Do you know what yours needed for R23 10min P53 E42 R44 before delid? Your friend Sp 108 I believe it was 1.199v max temp 78C. My SP87 needs 1.181v 80C.
> 
> Waiting for the thermal grizzly cpu contact frame to improve temps a little more and push 5.4GHz with comfortable temps.


At water temp 27.5C, max package temp was 74C with 1.163v load voltage.
Here is the post I did before.
*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...




Ichirou said:


> Question: Does anyone at your Korean forums have any information about 12900K Batch X202?


Nope. Many people gave up binning 2022 12900K, so no info I have seen.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

SSBrain said:


> By any chance, are the marks a grid-like pattern?


No just on the IHS wings you can see it's been installed.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

marti69 said:


> thank you bro, im looking to buy a binned 12900ks p core 100+ im curious to see how better it will get with a better chip


SP rating isn't super accurate. Especially on 12900KS chips. I binned 3 chips 

Best SP 96 (103 p core and 82 e core I think it was) does 5.5/4.4 all day long on water with 1.335V set (1.305 die sense). Seems to be a very good sample that will be going on LN2 soon. I've seen chips with higher ratings not be able to do these same clocks. 

My SP 90 chip (96 p core and 78 e core) was actually my worst chip. Barely does 5.4 at like 1.35V (1.32 die sense) and e cores only at 4.2. It would need to be downclocked to 5.3 GHz for daily use due to the the voltage and heat. Stability at 5.4 is too borderline.

My sp 88 chip (93 p core and 76 e core) did 5.4/4.3 at around 1.32V (1.29V die sense). So don't get too caught up in sP rating. If your chip does 5.5 rest assured thats about as good as it gets. I've never seen anyone run 5.6 GHz without the aid of atleast somewhat chilled water, or disabling Hyper Threading.


----------



## sugi0lover

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> SP rating isn't super accurate. Especially on 12900KS chips. I binned 3 chips
> 
> Best SP 96 (103 p core and 82 e core I think it was) does 5.5/4.4 all day long on water with 1.335V set (1.305 die sense). Seems to be a very good sample that will be going on LN2 soon. I've seen chips with higher ratings not be able to do these same clocks.
> 
> My SP 90 chip (96 p core and 78 e core) was actually my worst chip. Barely does 5.4 at like 1.35V (1.32 die sense) and e cores only at 4.2. It would need to be downclocked to 5.3 GHz for daily use due to the the voltage and heat. Stability at 5.4 is too borderline.
> 
> My sp 88 chip (93 p core and 76 e core) did 5.4/4.3 at around 1.32V (1.29V die sense). So don't get too caught up in sP rating. If your chip does 5.5 rest assured thats about as good as it gets. I've never seen anyone run 5.6 GHz without the aid of atleast somewhat chilled water, or disabling Hyper Threading.


This is 56/43/45 at water temp 23C after delid.
I got error around 8 min, but I am sure it will pass with some adjustments.


----------



## Electrosoft

TheNaitsyrk said:


> So Amazon sent me a used CPU. You can see marks on the IHS from when it was installed. It was just resealed. I can return it at the least easily.
> 
> Sample: 90 P-Cores and 76 E-Cores. Literally bottom of the bottom.


Same thing happened to me from Amazon when I bought a 12900k. Someone had meticulously resealed it just enough. And yep, it was trash too.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> So Amazon sent me a used CPU. You can see marks on the IHS from when it was installed. It was just resealed. I can return it at the least easily.
> 
> Sample: 90 P-Cores and 76 E-Cores. Literally bottom of the bottom.





Electrosoft said:


> Same thing happened to me from Amazon when I bought a 12900k. Someone had meticulously resealed it just enough. And yep, it was trash too.


Amazon probably sent them back out since it would be too expensive to just toss the CPUs into a palette, or waste time with RMAs.
I would imagine that being one of the biggest retailers of PC hardware, tons of people are binning CPUs with them. So not the best store to rely on, especially with their lax return policy.


sugi0lover said:


> Thanks, but I have seen some other good 12900K like SP104 (I owned it before) and SP105 (a guy at Korean PC forum).


I guess any combined SP score of 100+ for the 12900K is considered absolute golden? Or P-core SP of 110+. Even moreso if there is AVX-512


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Amazon probably sent them back out since it would be too expensive to just toss the CPUs into a palette, or waste time with RMAs.
> I would imagine that being one of the biggest retailers of PC hardware, tons of people are binning CPUs with them. So not the best store to rely on, especially with their lax return policy.
> 
> I guess any combined SP score of 100+ for the 12900K is considered absolute golden? Or P-core SP of 110+. Even moreso if there is AVX-512


All combined SP of 100+ I have seen have P SP above 110+, so I think it' golden core-wise. But I saw even with core golden chip has so so imc.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> All combined SP of 100+ I have seen have P SP above 110+, so I think it' golden core-wise. But I saw even with core golden chip has so so imc.


How many chips have you binned so far? Did you buy your current one from someone else, or was it a personal bin?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> How many chips have you binned so far? Did you buy your current one from someone else, or was it a personal bin?


I bought only one 12900K and it was SP80. After that, I have bought good binned ones from people/friends paying some premium $.
The current one is from my friend who sold it after he got his 12900KS P SP 108.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> I bought only one 12900K and it was SP80. After that, I have bought good binned ones from people/friends paying some premium $.
> The current one is from my friend who sold it after he got his 12900KS P SP 108.


What did you do with the extras? Resold them?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> What did you do with the extras? Resold them?


Yes. All of binned ones went to other friends at cheaper price I paid. There is a long waiting list


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> Yes. All of binned ones went to other friends at cheaper price I paid. There is a long waiting list


Oof. So how much did you pay extra for a golden chip, in total? Enough to buy another chip or two?


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> This is 56/43/45 at water temp 23C after delid.
> I got error around 8 min, but I am sure it will pass with some adjustments.
> View attachment 2559001


Ur delidded. And with minimum temps below your claimed water temps? Curious.

Either way 5.6 ain't happening on any chips without delidding or a chiller, a massive custom loop with reasonably cool water temps AND a monster 1/1000 level Gold tier chip lol. Being able to do 5.5 is still a great result and indicative of probably a top 1% CPU.


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Oof. So how much did you pay extra for a golden chip, in total? Enough to buy another chip or two?


l haven't counted, but one person offered me around USD 4500 for this chip, but I need it myself.



Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Ur delidded. And with minimum temps below your claimed water temps? Curious.
> 
> Either way 5.6 ain't happening on any chips without delidding or a chiller, a massive custom loop with reasonably cool water temps AND a monster 1/1000 level Gold tier chip lol. Being able to do 5.5 is still a great result and indicative of probably a top 1% CPU.


You can see some of hwinfo results that minimum core temps are a couple of degree below water temp. It may be the hwinfo thing, or location of T-sensor. It's not uncommon.
I completely agree with what you said above. I just wanted to show delided cpu can do 5.6Ghz.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> l haven't counted, but one person offered me around USD 4500 for this chip, but I need it myself.
> 
> 
> You can see some of hwinfo results that minimum core temps are a couple of degree below water temp. It may be the hwinfo thing, or location of T-sensor. It's not uncommon.
> I completely agree with what you said above. I just wanted to show delided cpu can do 5.6Ghz.





> $4,500


Maybe you should tell them to wait a bit (while you secretly bin another chip =P)

So in your opinion, what is considered a golden chip max Vcore for 5.2-5.4 GHz all core?
I don't have an ASUS anymore, so I have to rely on HWInfo readings. Water loop is slowly getting set up, so I'll be able to properly bench my chip soon.


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Maybe you should tell them to wait a bit (while you secretly bin another chip =P)
> 
> So in your opinion, what is considered a golden chip max Vcore for 5.2-5.4 GHz all core?
> I don't have an ASUS anymore, so I have to rely on HWInfo readings. Water loop is slowly getting set up, so I'll be able to properly bench my chip soon.


IMHO, all cores 5.4Ghz ones are golden chip already. Good luck to your OC journey~


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> IMHO, all cores 5.4Ghz ones are golden chip already. Good luck to your OC journey~


Oh, well that makes things simple then. As long as 5.4 GHz all-core is stable, I can call the chip golden?
Is it hard to boot that on most chips or something? Not a cooling issue?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Oh, well that makes things simple then. As long as 5.4 GHz all-core is stable, I can call the chip golden?
> Is it hard to boot that on most chips or something? Not a cooling issue?


It's just my opinion not fact  
5.4Ghz all cores, cine23 at least 30min pass, water temp around 25 or above
I see most chips fail at the above condition.


----------



## sugi0lover

Like we know, SP doesn't tell everything.
This 12900KS is only SP90 (P98/E75) and see how it performs even though it's delidded.
Especially, E cores and Cache are unsually good (not my result)

APEX 0086Bios / P55 / E44 / Ring 47 / Ram 7200 C32 / Vcore 1.39 LLC7


----------



## fat4l

Finally the whole delid done now.
The glue removal took hours and is painful af...especially around those capacitors. That is the hardest part.

Now all clear, die polished, clean nail polish applied to capacitors.... all there's left is liquid metal application and supercool computers direct die block which should come in 2 days I believe.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> Like we know, SP doesn't tell everything.
> This 12900KS is only SP90 (P98/E75) and see how it performs even though it's delidded.
> Especially, E cores and Cache are unsually good (not my result)
> 
> APEX 0086Bios / P55 / E44 / Ring 47 / Ram 7200 C32 / Vcore 1.39 LLC7
> View attachment 2559006
> 
> 
> View attachment 2559007


Yep seems similar to my chip but my cache maxes out at 45 fully stable when e cores are enabled. 46 and even 47 will pass in cinebench but it's not fully stable.

Pretty crazy


----------



## sugi0lover

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Yep seems similar to my chip but my cache maxes out at 45 fully stable when e cores are enabled. 46 and even 47 will pass in cinebench but it's not fully stable.
> 
> Pretty crazy


Initially after checking SP, the owner didn't even want to touch it


----------



## Ichirou

@sugi0lover Out of curiosity, what wattage do you pull at 5.5 GHz all-core, and what PSU are you using for it?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> @sugi0lover Out of curiosity, what wattage do you pull at 5.5 GHz all-core, and what PSU are you using for it?


Hwinfo shows max cpu package power 300.3W and my psu is Corsair AX1600i.


----------



## Ketku-

Ichirou said:


> @sugi0lover Out of curiosity, what wattage do you pull at 5.5 GHz all-core, and what PSU are you using for it?


I want see same watts/results Linpack Extreme.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> Hwinfo shows max cpu package power 300.3W and my psu is Corsair AX1600i.


Have you tested with any actual hardware? I've heard the Apex underreports power draw significantly. I've tested with both hardware and software and my CPU pulls upwards of 400w around 1.3V (die sense) and 5.5/4.4 GHz. If I'm going for broke and pushing her for all she's got 1.36V (die sense under load) 5.55/4.44 GHz I've seen over 440w on just cpu draw with total system draw at around 540w from the wall which roughly lines up.

My chip might very well be leaky and yours is delidded so will have lower temps and be a bit more efficient, But I'd be surprised if it's actually pulling 30% more power than yours.


----------



## sugi0lover

Ketku- said:


> I want see same watts/results Linpack Extreme.


Linx depends heavily on Ram OC. At my current Ram OC, it's not possible to pass Linx at 55/43/45 + 7200CL30.


----------



## sugi0lover

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Have you tested with any actual hardware? I've heard the Apex underreports power draw significantly. I've tested with both hardware and software and my CPU pulls upwards of 400w around 1.3V (die sense) and if I'm going for broke and pushing her for all she's got 1.36V (die sense under load) I've seen over 440w on just cpu draw with total system draw at around 540w from the wall which roughly lines up.


I think I can use AX1600i app to see the power consumption. I will let you know and update this post when I get the result.


----------



## Ketku-

sugi0lover said:


> Linx depends heavily on Ram OC. At my current Ram OC, it's not possible to pass Linx at 55/43/45 + 7200CL30.


Yea i know it, thats why i say. Those oc what you use, cant pass. I belive 5.2ghz is hard pass even linx with tight memory settings.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ketku- said:


> Yea i know it, thats why i say. Those oc what you use, cant pass. I belive 5.2ghz is hard pass even linx with tight memory settings.


I've passed 20 rounds of linpack extreme at 5.3 with 6800 30-39-39 1T. Currently working on a 6933 30-39-39-28 1T profile. I'll retest once I'm up and running fully. Also prime 95 stable at 5.3 @1.24V (1.21V die sense) e cores disabled and hyper threading enabled.


----------



## sugi0lover

Ketku- said:


> Yea i know it, thats why i say. Those oc what you use, cant pass. I belive 5.2ghz is hard pass even linx with tight memory settings.


So what's the point? My oc is bad? Most of people here are using Cine and it's their choice what software they choose to use. Just enjoy what you have!


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> So what's the point? My oc is bad? Most of people here are using Cine and it's their choice what software they choose to use. Just enjoy what you have!


Some people want prime 95 stable. And think the rest of us must also be prime 95 stable. Most of us don't ever stress our CPUs that hard. Personally if my OC can easily survive 3-4 passes of R23 then it's good enough for me and I've never once crashed in all my years. I usually find the minimum voltsge needed to pass R23 and add maybe 25-35 mV onto the vcore to give myself some margin for error to account for changes in ambient temps.


----------



## sugi0lover

I connect the monitoring usb of AX1600i and ran CineR23.
Corsair AX 1600i reports power consumption including all other components, like GPU. I am not certain what's the real power consumption of CPU itself.
Anyway here it is!

Max CPU Package Power : 295.198W
Corsair AX 1600i
 Max PSU Total Power 396.000W


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> I connect the monitoring usb of AX1600i and ran CineR23.
> Corsair AX 1600i reports power consumption including all other components, like GPU. I am not certain what's the real power consumption of CPU itself.
> Anyway here it is!
> 
> Max CPU Package Power : 295.198W
> Corsair AX 1600i
> Max PSU Total Power 396.000W
> View attachment 2559016


Interesting I'd have expected more power draw. Your score is also a bit low though. I noticed if I use adaptive voltages with a negative offset my score also drops and so does my power usage. How are you clocking it? Static or adaptive?

At those same clocks I'm right around 31700ish using a static oc.


----------



## sugi0lover

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Interesting I'd have expected more power draw. Your score is also a bit low though. I noticed if I use adaptive voltages with a negative offset my score also drops and so does my power usage. How are you clocking it? Static or adaptive?
> 
> At those same clocks I'm right around 31700ish using a static oc.


I paid attention to other people's package power consumption and load voltages. Asus seems similar.
I use static OC.
Cine Score is the same as yours when I don't run Hwinfo and a couple of CPU-Zs.









[Edit] There is an option called CPU Current Reporting. If it sets to 150%, package power consumtion reports very high.
Anything like in your bios?


----------



## Ichirou

Personally, I just test stability to Intel's Processor Diagnostic Tool looped for a good 15 minutes or so.
I don't think I've ever caught any instability outside of memory-related ones if the CPU can pass that.

However, y-cruncher and perhaps some other stress tests will have different requirements, so they might not necessarily pass.
It tends to boil down to an IMC issue in that case, though.

At the end of the day, as long as you're stable with the programs and/or games you use the PC for, it's all good.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> I paid attention to other people's package power consumption and load voltages. Asus seems similar.
> I use static OC.
> Cine Score is the same as yours when I don't run Hwinfo and a couple of CPU-Zs.
> 
> View attachment 2559020


Yeah without those I'm right around 31900. But you're close enough. When I use adaptive I lose like 1000 points. It's weird.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Yeah without those I'm right around 31900. But you're close enough. When I use adaptive I lose like 1000 points. It's weird.


Probably warm up by CPU. It has to go from a low multiplier to a high one, albeit so fast you can't humanly notice it.
But that tiny bit can make up for the 1000 points. And sometimes, depending on the program, it might wind down/up at random intervals.
A flat Vcore forces the CPU to run on load regardless. Or enabling High Performance with 100% processor state. That can sometimes work.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ichirou said:


> Probably warm up by CPU. It has to go from a low multiplier to a high one, albeit so fast you can't humanly notice it.
> But that tiny bit can make up for the 1000 points. And sometimes, depending on the program, it might wind down/up at random intervals.
> A flat Vcore forces the CPU to run on load regardless. Or enabling High Performance with 100% processor state. That can sometimes work.


Yeah even when running with high performance power plan. The cpu pulls 100w less and runs cooler as well. It's really odd.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> SP rating isn't super accurate. Especially on 12900KS chips. I binned 3 chips
> 
> Best SP 96 (103 p core and 82 e core I think it was) does 5.5/4.4 all day long on water with 1.335V set (1.305 die sense). Seems to be a very good sample that will be going on LN2 soon. I've seen chips with higher ratings not be able to do these same clocks.
> 
> My SP 90 chip (96 p core and 78 e core) was actually my worst chip. Barely does 5.4 at like 1.35V (1.32 die sense) and e cores only at 4.2. It would need to be downclocked to 5.3 GHz for daily use due to the the voltage and heat. Stability at 5.4 is too borderline.
> 
> My sp 88 chip (93 p core and 76 e core) did 5.4/4.3 at around 1.32V (1.29V die sense). So don't get too caught up in sP rating. If your chip does 5.5 rest assured thats about as good as it gets. I've never seen anyone run 5.6 GHz without the aid of atleast somewhat chilled water, or disabling Hyper Threading.


I can agree. My SP104 chip can't really do 5.4 P-Cores and 4.3 on E-Cores.
When I give it like 1.45V LLC4 and voltage in CPU-Z is like 1.305V it can only do 8min of CB23. I don't want to increase voltage further as I don't want to degrade the chip. I kept it in case I can't find anything better.

I also tried 1.35V LLC6 and that wasn't happy also. Might need to go to 1.375-1.4V at LLC6 to get it stable 5.4 4.3


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> I paid attention to other people's package power consumption and load voltages. Asus seems similar.
> I use static OC.
> Cine Score is the same as yours when I don't run Hwinfo and a couple of CPU-Zs.
> View attachment 2559020
> 
> 
> [Edit] There is an option called CPU Current Reporting. If it sets to 150%, package power consumtion reports very high.
> Anything like in your bios?
> View attachment 2559021


Super weird. So i reran using a droopier llc. And it seems to run better this way than my almost flat settings. I can set 1.39V in bios and it droops down to about 1.29V and I dont lose points and it runs cooler! Might need to experiment with this more. Power draw is reduced but still around 390w.


----------



## Ketku-

sugi0lover said:


> So what's the point? My oc is bad? Most of people here are using Cine and it's their choice what software they choose to use. Just enjoy what you have!


Not bad mate  Its nice. Yea most of use cine23 

I love use Linx/Linpack Extreme cpu and Tm5 Extreme memory. Ofcourse Cinebench/gaming too is enough for stable


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Holy ****. With -25% droop instead of -75% im able to droop Vcore to 1.37V and it droops all the way down to 1.27V under load. "Only" pulls 378w but max core temp is 80C. Most cores mid to high 70s. Previously I had to set 1.335V and it would droop to about 1.305V and temps would be about 10C hotter and about 420w consumption. Itll pass this all day long. Can even drop to 1.36 but itll crash after 2-3 runs. Still this chip keeps surprising me.


----------



## Nizzen

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Holy ****. With -25% droop instead of -75% im able to droop Vcore to 1.37V and it droops all the way down to 1.27V under load. "Only" pulls 378w but max core temp is 80C. Most cores mid to high 70s. Previously I had to set 1.335V and it would droop to about 1.305V and temps would be about 10C hotter and about 420w consumption. Itll pass this all day long. Can even drop to 1.36 but itll crash after 2-3 runs. Still this chip keeps surprising me.
> View attachment 2559026


Almost 32k 😎👌


----------



## SSBrain

@Mylittlepwny2: could you make a brief test if you have time? If effective load voltage was 1.27V and reported power was 378W, the average current should be 378 / 1.27 = 297.63A. If you set the maximum processor current (IccMax) to 300A in BIOS, do you get current/EDP throttling (as also reported by HWInfo) in the same tests?

My hypothesis is that you will, because as far as I have seen IccMax does not operate on _average_ current, but on _peak_ current which can be significantly higher than the average value that can be calculated in this way.

According to Intel datasheets for 12th gen processors, the absolute maximum IccMax for i9-12900K processors should be 280A.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

SSBrain said:


> @Mylittlepwny2: could you make a brief test if you have time? If effective load voltage was 1.27V and reported power was 378W, the average current should be 378 / 1.27 = 297.63A. If you set the maximum processor current (IccMax) to 300A in BIOS, do you get current/EDP throttling (as also reported by HWInfo) in the same tests?
> 
> My hypothesis is that you will, because as far as I have seen IccMax does not operate on _average_ current, but on _peak_ current which can be significantly higher than the average value that can be calculated in this way.
> 
> According to Intel datasheets for 12th gen processors, the absolute maximum IccMax for i9-12900K processors should be 280A.


Yes I definitely get throttling when I set iccmax to 300A. Basically chokes CPU down to 5 GHz all core and power draw caps at 306w.


----------



## SSBrain

Thanks for confirming that on your configuration. Another idea if you're curious to see what is the actual peak current under full-load could be slowly increasing IccMax until you don't get EDP throttling anymore. My prediction: it might take around 450-500A.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

SSBrain said:


> Thanks for confirming that on your configuration. Another idea if you're curious to see what is the actual peak current under full-load could be slowly increasing IccMax until you don't get EDP throttling anymore. My prediction: it might take around 450-500A.


It stops somewhere between 350 and 400A at this voltage.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Nizzen said:


> Almost 32k 😎👌


There ya go lol. Probably get another 100ish points if I were using my benching OS but wanted to break 32k w/ hwinfo open lol. Man its crazy how hard I gotta push her for that last 50 MHz. An extra 110 mV beyond what I have to run for 5.5. This is right on the very edge. Only 433w of power draw lol


----------



## SSBrain

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> It stops somewhere between 350 and 400A at this voltage.


Good, it's not as high as I expected, although I just realized you're using Cinebench for testing. Pure in-cache AVX loads like Prime95 should trigger the current limit hard; that's where I observed more than 50% higher peak currents than average current in my tests.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

SSBrain said:


> Good, it's not as high as I expected, although I just realized you're using Cinebench for testing. Pure in-cache AVX loads like Prime95 should trigger the current limit hard; that's where I observed more than 50% higher peak currents than average current in my tests.


Of that I have no doubt. Prime 95 is insane lol.


----------



## SSBrain

True. And something I have been wondering is whether heavy overclocks using Prime95 as the main test tool may be slowly degrading the CPU even at what would be normally considered safe voltages, due to these current peaks largely exceeding specification values.


----------



## fat4l

For me at 5.5g and 4g e cores i was pulling about 290W.

Also when I removed my block so I can delid the chip I did not have proper contact with the block for whatever reason...only left side was like properly touching the chip... that's prolly why my temps were not that great. Never happened to me before


----------



## sugi0lover

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> There ya go lol. Probably get another 100ish points if I were using my benching OS but wanted to break 32k w/ hwinfo open lol. Man its crazy how hard I gotta push her for that last 50 MHz. An extra 110 mV beyond what I have to run for 5.5. This is right on the very edge. Only 433w of power draw lol
> View attachment 2559028


Good job. I guess your KS will be better than mine once delidded.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> Good job. I guess your KS will be better than mine once delidded.
> View attachment 2559033


Maybe. Maybe not. But mine isn't getting delidded lol. Gonna be going on ln2 here next week. Praying she can do close to 7 GHz!


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Where do you guys remove limits in BIOS for the chip? ASUS mobo only.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Where do you guys remove limits in BIOS for the chip? ASUS mobo only.


They should be disabled the moment you set a static voltage.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

53/43/45 direct die and linx pushes the cpu to its knee. Starting water temp is 26c and up to 32c after 400w dumps into a loop.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> There ya go lol. Probably get another 100ish points if I were using my benching OS but wanted to break 32k w/ hwinfo open lol. Man its crazy how hard I gotta push her for that last 50 MHz. An extra 110 mV beyond what I have to run for 5.5. This is right on the very edge. Only 433w of power draw lol
> View attachment 2559028


So what exactly did you change compared to before?


----------



## affxct

Picture 1:
5.2P/4.0E/4.2R @ 1.3V LLC2
Picture 2:
5.1P/4.7R @ 1.2V LLC2

LLC2 yields 50mV of droop under heavy load

Was the $50 upgrade worth it for the SP 96?
Absofreakinlutely.

These aren't anything too exceptional given that I'm on an AIO, but I got some fairly decent daily'able OCs out of my new SP 96 chip. I must say, comparing it to my SP 81 shows quite a stark contrast in clock speed capability. I also managed R23 at 5.3/3.9/4.1 but the score was kinda mediocre because my chip runs in the 90s with 1.35V set with 50mV of droop under R23's load. I'll probably try a few 5.3P AVX-512 y-cruncher runs later on, but I need to get some Hynix sticks and get some decent memory tuning first. The kit that I'm currently on is disastrously bad. So much worse than the kit of Z5 that died on me.


----------



## Alberto_It

Hello everyone! I haven't entered this forum for a few months. I own an Asus z690 Apex and a 12900k with SP99. As bios version I have *1101* release. Last Friday I ordered the following DDR5 memory *G.Skill Trident F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RS* (SK hynix Chips)

They are compatible with Z690 Apex?

Currently I have the kit G.Skill Trident F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RK and with XMP1 profile they works smooth like butter

Thanks in advance for your help


----------



## Ichirou

Alberto_It said:


> Hello everyone! I haven't entered this forum for a few months. I own an Asus z690 Apex and a 12900k with SP99. As bios version I have *1101* release. Last Friday I ordered the following DDR5 memory *G.Skill Trident F5-6400J3239G16GX2-TZ5RS* (SK hynix Chips)
> 
> They are compatible with Z690 Apex?
> 
> Currently I have the kit G.Skill Trident F5-6000J3636F16GX2-TZ5RK and with XMP1 profile they works smooth like butter
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help


Yes.


----------



## affxct

Ichirou said:


> Yes.


Inb4 2021 bad QC DIMM slots 😬


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ichirou said:


> So what exactly did you change compared to before?


Just changed llc from -75% to -25%. And once I did that I need -30 mV to maintain 5.5. Temps dropped about 10C as a result. 1.37V set now droops to about 1.3V or 1.27V die sense (vs 1.33V/1.30V die sense) and it's more stable than before. Probably due to the reduced power draw (378w vs 416w) and temps. Super weird but this is much better.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Just changed llc from -75% to -25%. And once I did that I need -30 mV to maintain 5.5. Temps dropped about 10C as a result. 1.37V droops to about 1.269V and it's more stable than before. Probably due to the reduced power draw and temps. Super weird.


BIOS probably overallocating Vcore on low loads when LLC is high. Leads to unnecessary power draw, which leads to more issues.
There are some people out there who advocate next to no LLC, but the usual consensus is that the best spot to be is somewhere in the middle for a good balance.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ichirou said:


> BIOS probably overallocating Vcore on low loads when LLC is high. Leads to unnecessary power draw, which leads to more issues.
> There are some people out there who advocate next to no LLC, but the usual consensus is that the best spot to be is somewhere in the middle for a good balance.


Yeah I've always defaulted to setting my mobos to the bare minimum amount of LLC that I can while still having a tiny bit of droop. May have to rethink this going forward...


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Yeah I've always defaulted to setting my mobos to the bare minimum amount of LLC that I can while still having a tiny bit of droop. May have to rethink this going forward...


It's all personal preference. Some people like sugilover prefer to keep things simple: they max out LLC for the most accurate reading. What you set is what you get. (Unless max LLC isn't flat and causes overshoot; that would be another issue that's manufacturer based.)

You can always find the Vcore on load at max LLC, and then introduce Vdroop with a lower LLC afterwards, and adjust accordingly. You know the necessary load Vcore, so you know how much higher to set the Vcore.

Alternatively, rely on your motherboard's various adaptive voltage options. They're usually optimized to properly ramp up/down depending on load, for maximum efficiency. I'm not sure how EVGA handles it, but ASUS and MSI do a good job. Saves on power consumption over the long run.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ichirou said:


> It's all personal preference. Some people like sugilover prefer to keep things simple: they max out LLC for the most accurate reading. What you set is what you get. (Unless max LLC isn't flat and causes overshoot; that would be another issue that's manufacturer based.)
> 
> You can always find the Vcore on load at max LLC, and then introduce Vdroop with a lower LLC afterwards, and adjust accordingly. You know the necessary load Vcore, so you know how much higher to set the Vcore.
> 
> Alternatively, rely on your motherboard's various adaptive voltage options. They're usually optimized to properly ramp up/down depending on load, for maximum efficiency. I'm not sure how EVGA handles it, but ASUS and MSI do a good job. Saves on power consumption over the long run.


I don't use adaptive voltages. Likely never will. Seems to make scores worse and frankly efficiency isn't something I'm at all concerned about. EVGA has done very little to make adaptive voltages easy to adjust. There also is no option within bios to turn on Intel stock settings or limits. I get the sense it's not something they are very concerned about. 

I see very little reason to bother with adaptive voltages tbh. Even if I were to daily this system, with a static vcore I still get very low idle power draw if I ever bother to change my power plan from high performance lol.


----------



## SSBrain

The reason for the worse scores with adaptive voltages was possibly CEP (Current Excursion Protection) being enabled. It works only with adaptive voltages and throttles the CPU when it thinks it is being undervolted too much, promoting stability at the expense of performance. This was discussed in the forum by Falkentyne, here are a few comments:


ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...
ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...
MSI z690 Edge V/F offset hard capped at -0.199?

By setting the AC loadline to the same impedance of the VRM loadline (which depends on the LLC setting) it is possible to get a flat voltage response with load as with the highest LLC settings, so that could be a reason for using it besides better idle power consumption. Voltages would then be tweaked using VF points, which can admittedly be a bit laborious if you want to optimize the entire voltage-frequency curve.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

SSBrain said:


> The reason for the worse scores with adaptive voltages was possibly CEP (Current Excursion Protection) being enabled. It works only with adaptive voltages and throttles the CPU when it thinks it is being undervolted too much, promoting stability at the expense of performance. This was discussed in the forum by Falkentyne, here are a few comments:
> 
> 
> ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...
> ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...
> MSI z690 Edge V/F offset hard capped at -0.199?
> 
> By setting the AC loadline to the same impedance of the VRM loadline (which depends on the LLC setting) it is possible to get a flat voltage response with load as with the highest LLC settings, so that could be a reason for using it besides better idle power consumption. Voltages would then be tweaked using VF points, which can admittedly be a bit laborious if you want to optimize the entire voltage-frequency curve.


There's undoubtedly some truth to what you say. I'm not smart enough with all this and I don't have the desire to absolutely optimize my chip to turn nth degrees to maximize performance/ watt. But it is cool that those of you who do have the option. The EVGA bios is much much more simple than the ASUS bios when it comes to these things. I have the ability to add a manual offset to the stock vid table at only a few points 5500 MHz, 5200 MHz, and a few others. I haven't bothered to touch it. I'm old fashioned and lazy I guess lol. This chip will never be dailied. My main rig just got my 5950x hand me down and likely I dont need to upgrading it for a long time considering I really play games very infrequently.


----------



## DSHG87

I just played AoE II DE with my 12900KS @ stock and wondering about VCore. Max. 1.48 (Socket sense) and average 1.42V. Most of time between 1.38 and 1.46V. Is that really normal and no problem for the CPU?


----------



## Ichirou

DSHG87 said:


> I just played AoE II DE with my 12900KS @ stock and wondering about VCore. Max. 1.48 (Socket sense) and average 1.42V. Most of time between 1.38 and 1.46V. Is that really normal and no problem for the CPU?


Stock settings? You'll be covered with Intel's three-year warranty. Besides, you're just gaming, not running some sort of 24/7 production workload.


----------



## DSHG87

Yes, stock settings. Under full load like Cinebench Vcore is between ~1.26 and 1.34V (4.9-5.2GHz allcore)

SoTTR ~1.38 - 1.44V, GTA IV ~1.42 - 1.46V.

AMD said, up to 1.5V is "by design" for Ryzen 5000. Why cant Intel say what Voltages (range) is normal and safe?


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

DSHG87 said:


> Yes, stock settings. Under full load like Cinebench Vcore is between ~1.26 and 1.34V (4.9-5.2GHz allcore)
> 
> SoTTR ~1.38 - 1.44V, GTA IV ~1.42 - 1.46V.
> 
> AMD said, up to 1.5V is "by design" for Ryzen 5000. Why cant Intel say what Voltages (range) is normal and safe?


The CPU at auto will be perfectly fine provided you keep it cool. Voltage (within reason) doesn't kill CPUs. Current does. And high temps speed up the process. As stated above you've got a 3 year warranty. I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Holy ****. With -25% droop instead of -75% im able to droop Vcore to 1.37V and it droops all the way down to 1.27V under load. "Only" pulls 378w but max core temp is 80C. Most cores mid to high 70s. Previously I had to set 1.335V and it would droop to about 1.305V and temps would be about 10C hotter and about 420w consumption. Itll pass this all day long. Can even drop to 1.36 but itll crash after 2-3 runs. Still this chip keeps surprising me.
> View attachment 2559026


How do you keep your temps in check at 400W? I have my massive amount of rads, I lapped my custom IHS to be flat and the cooler lapper again as well, LM between CPU IHS and die and LM on top of IHS and between the cooler. At 300W I get high 90s.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> How do you keep your temps in check at 400W? I have my massive amount of rads, I lapped my custom IHS to be flat and the cooler lapper again as well, LM between CPU IHS and die and LM on top of IHS and between the cooler. At 300W I get high 90s.


How much total radiator space do you have? Most people run at least a MO-RA, plus a super binned chip. That's 1,260 worth of radiator alone.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

TheNaitsyrk said:


> How do you keep your temps in check at 400W? I have my massive amount of rads, I lapped my custom IHS to be flat and the cooler lapper again as well, LM between CPU IHS and die and LM on top of IHS and between the cooler. At 300W I get high 90s.


I just have an Optimus Signature V2 heatsink. Same heatsink I used to use on my 10980Xe before I lapped it and got a 2nd one with a flat cold plate. Just using KPX thermal paste. I have not lapped or delidded my chip yet. Contact is pretty good though. Radiator isn't that important on something like cinebench because you're primary limiting factor is heat transfer from the IHS to the water. More radiator capacity only helps to keep your water temps in check over sustained runs. I do have 2 mora 3 radiators though but only 1 of them is actually hooked up right now since I'm not benching GPUs.

Honestly make sure you're measuring power consumption with actual hardware and not just relying on software. Also some chips are leakier than others which causes them to pull more power than others. I think my particular sample is very leaky. Hopefully this bodes well when I take it cold.


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> I just have an Optimus Signature V2 heatsink. Same heatsink I used to use on my 10980Xe before I lapped it and got a 2nd one with a flat cold plate. Just using KPX thermal paste. I have not lapped or delidded my chip yet. Contact is pretty good though. Radiator isn't that important on something like cinebench because you're primary limiting factor is heat transfer from the IHS to the water. More radiator capacity only helps to keep your water temps in check over sustained runs. I do have 2 mora 3 radiators though but only 1 of them is actually hooked up right now since I'm not benching GPUs.
> 
> Honestly make sure you're measuring power consumption with actual hardware and not just relying on software. Also some chips are leakier than others which causes them to pull more power than others. I think my particular sample is very leaky. Hopefully this bodes well when I take it cold.


IMHO, LM isn't really necessary nor meaningful between the IHS and waterblock. The difference is a single degree with Kryonaut. _Maybe_ 2C at absolutely extreme wattages.
But of course, that also depends on how well your paste job is, since you need to have maximum contact as well.
The real gains are when you use LM between the die and IHS, or direct die. That's where you start saving 5-10C or more.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ichirou said:


> IMHO, LM isn't really necessary nor meaningful between the IHS and waterblock. The difference is a single degree with Kryonaut. _Maybe_ 2C at absolutely extreme wattages.
> But of course, that also depends on how well your paste job is, since you need to have maximum contact as well.
> The real gains are when you use LM between the die and IHS, or direct die. That's where you start saving 5-10C or more.


Yeah I really don't bother with it outside of direct die for CPUs and GPUs. Use good old kpx for all things minus sub zero gpu where I use thermal grizzley extreme.


----------



## 050

I have an sp 91 (96p 81e) 12900ks that I think I am going to return and try to get a better chip - I was thinking it was fine and I just needed to dial things in but I tested running at stock on a z690-e strix (optimized defaults, asus MCE disabled) the system crashed while stress testing stock using the intel xtu standard stress test. It was power limited (makes sense) and was only ~80c so I don't think it crashed for thermal reasons. When loading up optimized defaults, the bios shows core voltage at 1.412v.









Anything else to consider or should I just return it for one that doesn't crash at stock? Is it unreasonable to expect that XTU stress test is passed at stock (with appropriate cooling?)


----------



## Dinnzy

Has anyone been successful with modding a lg1700 velocity 2 for direct die?


----------



## Ichirou

Dinnzy said:


> Has anyone been successful with modding a lg1700 velocity 2 for direct die?


There's no direct die frame out yet, so everyone's SOL. Sucks that the only means for a direct die is some rubberband fix, or that proprietary Thai waterblock.


----------



## DSHG87

050 said:


> I have an sp 91 (96p 81e) 12900ks that I think I am going to return and try to get a better chip - I was thinking it was fine and I just needed to dial things in but I tested running at stock on a z690-e strix (optimized defaults, asus MCE disabled) the system crashed while stress testing stock using the intel xtu standard stress test. It was power limited (makes sense) and was only ~80c so I don't think it crashed for thermal reasons. When loading up optimized defaults, the bios shows core voltage at 1.412v.
> View attachment 2559116
> 
> 
> Anything else to consider or should I just return it for one that doesn't crash at stock? Is it unreasonable to expect that XTU stress test is passed at stock (with appropriate cooling?)


What max. voltages and VIDs do you have in hwinfo in Windows after single and multicore benchmarks and some gaming? Is it like mine up to 1.48V Vcore and 1.475V VID?

I have my second KS here and both, first and this, could not pass XTU AVX2 Test. Keep in mind, the KS is still not official supported by XTU.


----------



## 050

DSHG87 said:


> What max. voltages and VIDs do you have in hwinfo in Windows after single and multicore benchmarks and some gaming? Is it like mine up to 1.48V Vcore and 1.475V VID?
> 
> I have my second KS here and both, first and this, could not pass XTU AVX2 Test. Keep in mind, the KS is still not odficial supported by XTU.


1.407-1.43v VID in XTU running the non-avx stress test, with the power limiting (stock) causing some cores to drop to 4.7-4.8ghz at times and at that point they were at ~1.094v VID. Not the worst voltages but when I try to tune any sort of oc on the z690-e the voltages either jump up when I enable TVB to ~1.47-1.48 or if I set v/f point offsets to bring them under control it still takes around 1.36v to run 5.2ghz in the xtu stress. I was getting irritated trying to stabilize that since the xtu stress kept failing after a couple hours with what seemed like good voltages, so I tried it stock and saw that it still failed.

What do you mean that it isn't officially supported by xtu?


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

050 said:


> 1.407-1.43v VID in XTU running the non-avx stress test, with the power limiting (stock) causing some cores to drop to 4.7-4.8ghz at times and at that point they were at ~1.094v VID. Not the worst voltages but when I try to tune any sort of oc on the z690-e the voltages either jump up when I enable TVB to ~1.47-1.48 or if I set v/f point offsets to bring them under control it still takes around 1.36v to run 5.2ghz in the xtu stress. I was getting irritated trying to stabilize that since the xtu stress kept failing after a couple hours with what seemed like good voltages, so I tried it stock and saw that it still failed.
> 
> What do you mean that it isn't officially supported by xtu?


What kind of cooling are you using? These things pull ALOT of power and will NOT maintain 5.2 GHz all core without an undervolt and/or a custom loop. Mine at stock will pull nearly 350w at completely stock settings on prime 95. No way any aio will ever dissipate that level of heat below 90C which is where these cpus start to downclock to reduce temps.

Try running an undervolt. You can easily do it with XTU. I've only played with it a couple times but you should have quite a bit of voltage headroom. Try like a -50mV offset and see if that helps ur temps. I know on my chip Ive run it all the way down to a -140mV offset and it was still stable for 10+ minutes of prime 95 before I stopped the test. Ymmv


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> I just have an Optimus Signature V2 heatsink. Same heatsink I used to use on my 10980Xe before I lapped it and got a 2nd one with a flat cold plate. Just using KPX thermal paste. I have not lapped or delidded my chip yet. Contact is pretty good though. Radiator isn't that important on something like cinebench because you're primary limiting factor is heat transfer from the IHS to the water. More radiator capacity only helps to keep your water temps in check over sustained runs. I do have 2 mora 3 radiators though but only 1 of them is actually hooked up right now since I'm not benching GPUs.
> 
> Honestly make sure you're measuring power consumption with actual hardware and not just relying on software. Also some chips are leakier than others which causes them to pull more power than others. I think my particular sample is very leaky. Hopefully this bodes well when I take it cold.


I have 5x 480mm for CPU alone, and also Sig V2 lapped.

My custom IHS wasn't flat. I lapped that as well, temps got bit better, checked this morning and there is still only 50% contact on the IHS. I either need to keep on lapping the cooler or I need to reapply the cooler.


----------



## SSBrain

DSHG87 said:


> [...] AMD said, up to 1.5V is "by design" for Ryzen 5000. Why cant Intel say what Voltages (range) is normal and safe?


Many i9-12900KS samples posted earlier have shown built-in VIDs for the highest turbo ratios above 1.5V, so the processor should be expected to use under stock conditions voltages around this level for few-cores workloads, if thermally sustainable and within current limits.










Furthermore, Intel datasheets suggest that voltages up to 1.72V under steady state conditions are within specifications for desktop processors ("S-processor line"), so ~1.5V should be within safety margins provided that other thermal and electrical specifications are obeyed. 

It's not clear whether 1.72V are actually an "absolute maximum rating" (AMR), although it most likely not a long-term operating point. In electronic datasheets, AMRs generally define operating points above which the effect on processor reliability and functionality is immediate, while here they refer to "long-term reliability", but they mention the same for current as well (IccMax).


----------



## 050

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> What kind of cooling are you using? These things pull ALOT of power and will NOT maintain 5.2 GHz all core without an undervolt and/or a custom loop. Mine at stock will pull nearly 350w at completely stock settings on prime 95. No way any aio will ever dissipate that level of heat below 90C which is where these cpus start to downclock to reduce temps.
> 
> Try running an undervolt. You can easily do it with XTU. I've only played with it a couple times but you should have quite a bit of voltage headroom. Try like a -50mV offset and see if that helps ur temps. I know on my chip Ive run it all the way down to a -140mV offset and it was still stable for 10+ minutes of prime 95 before I stopped the test. Ymmv


It’s a custom loop with 600mm of rad, and the thermals didn’t seem to be an issue really. Sitting around 80c at the 241w limit doesn’t bother me at all, crashing on the xtu non avx stress test at stock settings does. I expect the processor will drop clocks a bit due to power limits but if I’m going to overclock it I may as well start from a stable base, right?


----------



## SSBrain

DSHG87 said:


> I have my second KS here and both, first and this, could not pass XTU AVX2 Test. Keep in mind, the KS is still not official supported by XTU.


One issue is that nowadays many consumer motherboards do not really use default fail-safe settings, and as a result CPUs may not always be stable under intensive loads, even stock. This may give the appearance that the processor is faulty.

I had this happening with a previous B560 Gigabyte motherboard and an i7-11700K I owned, and in the end I solved it with a higher LLC setting than the default proposed value.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I have 5x 480mm for CPU alone, and also Sig V2 lapped.
> 
> My custom IHS wasn't flat. I lapped that as well, temps got bit better, checked this morning and there is still only 50% contact on the IHS. I either need to keep on lapping the cooler or I need to reapply the cooler.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2559124


Oh nevermind, I just pressed the block against the CPU and screwed in evenly from each corner temps are now good, 1.28V 65C max. 5.3Ghz P 4.3Ghz E 45 Cache 6800 CL30 Mem. Will try for 5.4Ghz at the very least. With better temps it should finally behave.


----------



## Simkin

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> What kind of cooling are you using? These things pull ALOT of power and will NOT maintain 5.2 GHz all core without an undervolt and/or a custom loop. Mine at stock will pull nearly 350w at completely stock settings on prime 95. No way any aio will ever dissipate that level of heat below 90C which is where these cpus start to downclock to reduce temps.
> 
> Try running an undervolt. You can easily do it with XTU. I've only played with it a couple times but you should have quite a bit of voltage headroom. Try like a -50mV offset and see if that helps ur temps. I know on my chip Ive run it all the way down to a -140mV offset and it was still stable for 10+ minutes of prime 95 before I stopped the test. Ymmv


Pretty much this. 5.1 all core heavy load is what my 420mm AIO can handle, barely.

Im running 30mV undervolt on AI OC. SP88 with P core 97.


----------



## Ketku-

Where i can find new LinX/Linpack Extreme? I lost programs, because new Windows 10 install.


----------



## SSBrain

This one?








Linpack Xtreme (1.1.5) Download


Linpack is a benchmark and the most aggressive stress testing software available today. Best used to test stability of overclocked PCs. Linpack tends




www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Ketku-

SSBrain said:


> This one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Linpack Xtreme (1.1.5) Download
> 
> 
> Linpack is a benchmark and the most aggressive stress testing software available today. Best used to test stability of overclocked PCs. Linpack tends
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.techpowerup.com


Yep, only i think. Will it work anymore with AlderLake or is it only LinX?


----------



## SSBrain

The Linux version which I have been using works with my i7-12700K. The only issue compared to other stress tools is that you cannot choose which AVX instructions to use; it will always use the highest available.


----------



## sugi0lover

This is the max OC I can do at the moment before direct die kit.

P56/E44/C46 at max water temp 25C.
10 Min long Cine got my score lower than normal score of 32,400+
I will compare this result with direct die when I have it.

[OC setup - CineR23 10min pass]
○ CPU : 12900K (SP103, P115, E79) / all cores (P 5.6G , E 4.4G, Cache 4.6G)
○ Ram : KLEVV Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 7200Mhz-30-41-40-28-305-2T
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0090)
○ Voltages (actual under load) : Vcore 1.350v / VDD 1.665v / VDDQ 1.590v / VDDQ TX 1.54 / MC 1.314v / SA 1.136v 
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) 









[Edit : Normal Cine Score without running hwinfo]










[You can check real time voltages, temps and etc]


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> This is the max OC I can do at the moment before direct die kit.
> 
> P56/E44/C46 at max water temp 25C.
> 10 Min long Cine got my score lower than normal score of 32,200+
> I will compare this result with direct die when I have it.
> 
> [OC setup - CineR23 10min pass]
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP103, P115, E79) / all cores (P 5.6G , E 4.4G, Cache 4.6G)
> ○ Ram : KLEVV Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 7200Mhz-30-41-40-28-305-2T
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0090)
> ○ Voltages (actual under load) : Vcore 1.350v / VDD 1.665v / VDDQ 1.590v / VDDQ TX 1.54 / MC 1.314v / SA 1.136v
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM)
> View attachment 2559142
> 
> 
> [Normal Cine score with Hwinfo running at the same time]
> View attachment 2559143
> 
> 
> [You can check real time voltages, temps and etc]


How much did this chip cost you from your friend in Korea? Just so we have an idea of what the best golden chip costs


----------



## fat4l

sugi0lover said:


> This is the max OC I can do at the moment before direct die kit.
> 
> P56/E44/C46 at max water temp 25C.
> 10 Min long Cine got my score lower than normal score of 32,200+
> I will compare this result with direct die when I have it.
> 
> [OC setup - CineR23 10min pass]
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP103, P115, E79) / all cores (P 5.6G , E 4.4G, Cache 4.6G)
> ○ Ram : KLEVV Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 7200Mhz-30-41-40-28-305-2T
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0090)
> ○ Voltages (actual under load) : Vcore 1.350v / VDD 1.665v / VDDQ 1.590v / VDDQ TX 1.54 / MC 1.314v / SA 1.136v
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM)
> View attachment 2559142
> 
> 
> [Normal Cine score with Hwinfo running at the same time]
> View attachment 2559143
> 
> 
> [You can check real time voltages, temps and etc]


Rly good ! 

What fans do you have on MORA?


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> This is the max OC I can do at the moment before direct die kit.
> 
> P56/E44/C46 at max water temp 25C.
> 10 Min long Cine got my score lower than normal score of 32,200+
> I will compare this result with direct die when I have it.
> 
> [OC setup - CineR23 10min pass]
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP103, P115, E79) / all cores (P 5.6G , E 4.4G, Cache 4.6G)
> ○ Ram : KLEVV Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 7200Mhz-30-41-40-28-305-2T
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0090)
> ○ Voltages (actual under load) : Vcore 1.350v / VDD 1.665v / VDDQ 1.590v / VDDQ TX 1.54 / MC 1.314v / SA 1.136v
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM)
> View attachment 2559142
> 
> 
> [Normal Cine score with Hwinfo running at the same time]
> View attachment 2559143
> 
> 
> [You can check real time voltages, temps and etc]


Very nice! I thought you were already delidded! Maybe 5.7 will be doable after delid!


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Very nice! I thought you were already delidded! Maybe 5.7 will be doable after delid!


Geriatric did 5.7 GHz before, IIRC. Pretty early on, too.
Here: Benchmark Competition: Shadow of the Tomb Raider


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ichirou said:


> Geriatric did 5.7 GHz before, IIRC. Pretty early on, too.
> Here: Benchmark Competition: Shadow of the Tomb Raider


I meant for cinebench. 5.7 is pretty easy for stuff like Tomb Raider. But 5.7 for cinebench without a chiller would be massively impressive!


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> I meant for cinebench. 5.7 is pretty easy for stuff like Tomb Raider. But 5.7 for cinebench without a chiller would be massively impressive!


I mean, chances are, if you can do 5.5-5.6 GHz all-core, some of those cores could probably be raised higher with a Per Core setting.
The cores don't all need the exact same Vcore, after all. The better ones should be able to go higher.


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> How much did this chip cost you from your friend in Korea? Just so we have an idea of what the best golden chip costs


My friend and I usually give special price to each other since we are close. We don't want to tell our low price since it may affect the other people's deals. Anyway the below is the recent sold price for 12900KS P SP 104 about USD 1600. That one is lower than my friend's ks P SP 108 and mine is better than KS P Sp108. So you can do the math and guess 










fat4l said:


> Rly good !
> 
> What fans do you have on MORA?


9 140mm arctic cooler. I used EK ones and all broke in 2 years.


Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Very nice! I thought you were already delidded! Maybe 5.7 will be doable after delid!


It's delidded recently but not direct die yet.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> My friend and I usually give special price to each other since we are close. We don't want to tell our low price since it may affect the other people's deals. Anyway the below is the recent sold price for 12900KS P SP 104 about USD 1600. That one is lower than my friend's ks P SP 108 and mine is better than KS P Sp108. So you can do the math and guess
> View attachment 2559186
> 
> 
> It's delidded recently but not direct die yet.


Got it. So on average anywhere from $1,000-2,000 USD, or maybe even more in some cases. Basically depending on how golden a chip is.

Did you delid and relid with LM on the same IHS? Or copper IHS? Any meaningful gains?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Got it. So on average anywhere from $1,000-2,000 USD, or maybe even more in some cases. Basically depending on how golden a chip is.
> 
> Did you delid and relid with LM on the same IHS? Or copper IHS? Any meaningful gains?


Yes pretty much that range. The guy offered me USD 4,500 is a automatic stock dealing programmer. He said even 0.01s is important for that program.
My other friend did delid job for me and he compared the original and copper ihs during delid job and coppper ihs was only 2c lower according to his test.
Since I decided to use direct die, I just use original ihs atm.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> Yes pretty much that range. The guy offered me USD 4,500 is a automatic stock dealing programmer. He said even 0.01s is important for that program.
> My other friend did delid job for me and he compared the original and copper ihs during delid job and coppper ihs was only 2c lower according to his test.
> Since I decided to use direct die, I just use original ihs atm.


How much better was LM on relidded original IHS compared to non-LM?
2C for the copper IHS sounds like it is within margin of error.


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> How much better was LM on relidded original IHS compared to non-LM?
> 2C for the copper IHS sounds like it is within margin of error.


about 10C~ he did lots of comparison tests by reapplying lots of lm with both ihs. Sometimes original was better and other times copper is better.
Copper ihs being 2C lower than the original ihs was based on the best result for both.


----------



## 050

Well sadly after returning my previous chip and getting a new one (from a newer batch), I got an all-around worse chip - sp87 p92 e78 (previous was sp91, p96 e81 and I thought that was mid-low end.) Annoying!









I'll just have to test it and see if it works any better for me!


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> about 10C~ he did lots of comparison tests by reapplying lots of lm with both ihs. Sometimes original was better and other times copper is better.
> Copper ihs being 2C lower than the original ihs was based on the best result for both.


So in theory, direct die would be about -20C less than stock? That sounds pretty insane.

Would you say that direct die is necessary, or is a relid with LM good enough?
How were the temps when you tested chips that weren't as golden as the one you have now?


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> My friend and I usually give special price to each other since we are close. We don't want to tell our low price since it may affect the other people's deals. Anyway the below is the recent sold price for 12900KS P SP 104 about USD 1600. That one is lower than my friend's ks P SP 108 and mine is better than KS P Sp108. So you can do the math and guess
> View attachment 2559186
> 
> 
> 9 140mm arctic cooler. I used EK ones and all broke in 2 years.
> 
> It's delidded recently but not direct die yet.


Lol I really like my cpu, but if someone offered me $2000 for it I don't think I could say no! 🤣😂


----------



## Ichirou

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Lol I really like my cpu, but if someone offered me $2000 for it I don't think I could say no! 🤣😂


sugi turned down $4,500...


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Ichirou said:


> I mean, chances are, if you can do 5.5-5.6 GHz all-core, some of those cores could probably be raised higher with a Per Core setting.
> The cores don't all need the exact same Vcore, after all. The better ones should be able to go higher.


To be honest on heavier workloads like cinebench frequency scaling gets stupid terrible. On my own chip 5.4 all core needs 70 mV more voltage than 5.3 GHz. And 5.5 needs about 140 mV more than 5.4. And to squeeze out 5.55, I need yet another another 110 mV. The frequency scaling with voltage is so far past the diminishing returns phase. I mean my chip is pretty damn good. Sugis might be better but I don't think even his would do 5.6 all core at stock ambient cooling before delidding. I don't think any chips will do 5.7 all core in something like cinebench with HT and E cores enabled without a delid and chilled water. That's so far beyond the standard deviation that I'm not sure such a God bin is possible. A chip that could do 5.6 (if it even exists) with stock ambient temps and IHS would already be a what 1/10000 type of bin? I mean it would have to have p cores well over SP120 I would think considering not all SP110+ chips can even do 5.5. And those are already rare as hens teeth. I've never even heard of a stock one doing 5.6 so it must needs be incredibly rare. So 5.7 just seems too far out there.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> about 10C~ he did lots of comparison tests by reapplying lots of lm with both ihs. Sometimes original was better and other times copper is better.
> Copper ihs being 2C lower than the original ihs was based on the best result for both.


I'm curious you seem to know alot of people binning these chips. How rare are 5.4 chips? Top 15%? 5.5 chips? Top 3%? Any ideas?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> So in theory, direct die would be about -20C less than stock? That sounds pretty insane.
> 
> Would you say that direct die is necessary, or is a relid with LM good enough?
> How were the temps when you tested chips that weren't as golden as the one you have now?


I saw the test result about 15C less than stock.

I don't think there is one right answer for your Q. It really depends on what he/she wants.
Even though I don't have any interest in competing with other people, I always want to see the limit of what I have.
It may be better or worse than other systems, but I don't care about that. The competition is always bet. what I could do yesterday and what I can do today.
For your other Q, temps of other chips were honest. Higher voltages, higher temps.


----------



## sugi0lover

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> I'm curious you seem to know alot of people binning these chips. How rare are 5.4 chips? Top 15%? 5.5 chips? Top 3%? Any ideas?


Lots of binning people just check SP and don't run the actual OC.
Not to mention 5.5, for 5.4 chips (e cores on), I have not seen not even 10 samples so far under these conditions, all cores on, normal temp, 30min Cine pass and Ram OC to certain degree.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> Lots of binning people just check SP and don't run the actual OC.
> Not to mention 5.5, for 5.4 chips (e cores on), I have not seen not even 10 samples so far under these conditions, all cores on, normal temp, 30min Cine pass and Ram OC to certain degree.


Oh maybe 5.4 chips are even rarer than I thought. I know of the 3 KS chips I bought all of them could reach 5.4 but the worst one was definitely not able to pass more than 1 or 2 runs of cinebench before crashing. And it needed ALOT of voltage to do it. The other one needed alot more voltage than my 5.5 chip but it was definitely more manageable at 5.4 than the worst chip. The e cores only did 4.2 however.


----------



## david12900k

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Oh maybe 5.4 chips are even rarer than I thought. I know of the 3 KS chips I bought all of them could reach 5.4 but the worst one was definitely not able to pass more than 1 or 2 runs of cinebench before crashing. And it needed ALOT of voltage to do it. The other one needed alot more voltage than my 5.5 chip but it was definitely more manageable at 5.4 than the worst chip. The e cores only did 4.2 however.


Can your 5.5 pass 30 mins in R23? Thats really good. Im trying to get the Thermal Grizzley Contact Frame. For some reason, my 5.4 all core just doesnt want to do 5.5 stable. I can get it a few minutes into R23, but it crashes every time. I dont know if its temps or what...


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> Lots of binning people just check SP and don't run the actual OC.
> Not to mention 5.5, for 5.4 chips (e cores on), I have not seen not even 10 samples so far under these conditions, all cores on, normal temp, 30min Cine pass and Ram OC to certain degree.


Now I can see why you consider 5.4 GHz all-core to already be a golden chip.

@Mylittlepwny2 I imagine that the chips that can do 5.5+ GHz all-core are Top 1%. But since millions of chips are being made and sold, that's still a large population.
It's just that most people who do have Top 1% chips either don't overclock, don't overclock heavily, don't have an adequate cooling solution, or don't publicize their results.
So it ends up looking more like the Top 0.1% instead.

In my case though, I'm more concerned about a good IMC than a good chip to overclock with. I'm fine with 5.2-5.3 GHz all-core, so long as the max load voltage is in the 1.30V range.

*In other news, does anyone want to let me borrow/resell their delid kit? I can pay for the shipping, and a nominal fee if you require.*
Don't really want to buy a brand new one, and I've heard some stories of the kit never even arriving to customers. Shoot me a message if so.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Remember 10900k sp126( only 1 in the world I guess). So there must be 1 like that for 12900k but maybe its in an OEM built.


----------



## Ichirou

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Remember 10900k sp126( only 1 in the world I guess). So there must be 1 like that for 12900k but maybe its in an OEM built.


Binning CPUs is basically like buying scratch cards. There's always going to be winning cards out there, but there's no knowing who will find them (or when or where), assuming they are even found at all.

For all we know, maybe some random person has a SP 130 in some cheap build with a crappy $20 air cooler.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

david12900k said:


> Can your 5.5 pass 30 mins in R23? Thats really good. Im trying to get the Thermal Grizzley Contact Frame. For some reason, my 5.4 all core just doesnt want to do 5.5 stable. I can get it a few minutes into R23, but it crashes every time. I dont know if its temps or what...


Yeah it can pass 30 mins of R23. And now that I'm using more vdroop it only needs about 1.28V under load to do it so the hottest core never exceeds 83C. Most other cores are upper 70s. 10C and 35w less than my previous OC profile.


----------



## DSHG87

050 said:


> Well sadly after returning my previous chip and getting a new one (from a newer batch), I got an all-around worse chip - sp87 p92 e78 (previous was sp91, p96 e81 and I thought that was mid-low end.) Annoying!
> View attachment 2559193
> 
> 
> I'll just have to test it and see if it works any better for me!


Tell me please, are you reaching 1.5V in Windows @ stock? What VIDs/voltages do you have in HWiNFO after recording some time?


----------



## 050

DSHG87 said:


> Tell me please, are you reaching 1.5V in Windows @ stock? What VIDs/voltages do you have in HWiNFO after recording some time?


I ran XTU stress test and it stopped the test (saying test failed) in ~15 min at stock, Vcore went as high as 1.456v but that may have been after the test failed and it was idling. The paste application was good/reasonable when I removed the block but the chip got up to 97c under the stress test load when the previous one was only hitting ~90c. Most cores were only in the high 80s-low 90s, but cores 5 and 7 hit 98 and 99c respectively. The max VIDs for the P cores were 1.446, 1.412, 1.432, 1.447, 1.421, 1.421, 1.421, 1.421. 

During the stress test I reset hwinfo64 to get a spread of what voltages it sees - vcore under load ranged from 1.279 to 1.439v.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> Now I can see why you consider 5.4 GHz all-core to already be a golden chip.
> 
> @Mylittlepwny2 I imagine that the chips that can do 5.5+ GHz all-core are Top 1%. But since millions of chips are being made and sold, that's still a large population.
> It's just that most people who do have Top 1% chips either don't overclock, don't overclock heavily, don't have an adequate cooling solution, or don't publicize their results.
> So it ends up looking more like the Top 0.1% instead.
> 
> In my case though, I'm more concerned about a good IMC than a good chip to overclock with. I'm fine with 5.2-5.3 GHz all-core, so long as the max load voltage is in the 1.30V range.
> 
> *In other news, does anyone want to let me borrow/resell their delid kit? I can pay for the shipping, and a nominal fee if you require.*
> Don't really want to buy a brand new one, and I've heard some stories of the kit never even arriving to customers. Shoot me a message if so.


Since I delidded my chip and fixed my IHS. I started over with the OC.
In BIOS I gave the chip 1.475V but actual core voltage is 1.33V in Windows. I haven't touched RAM OC at all, but LLC4 1.475V BIOS 1.33V actual 5.4Ghz P and 4.3Ghz E passed 30 min of Cinebench 3 times therefore I consider it stable. Temps never went over 80c.


----------



## philippark4242

wow surprise~ yesterday i try it cl14 4300~ but not easy












yesterday i finished 4300 cl15 straight


----------



## Ichirou

philippark4242 said:


> View attachment 2559212
> 
> 
> wow surprise~ yesterday i try it cl14 4300~
> 
> View attachment 2559213
> 
> 
> yesterday i finished 4300 cl15 straight


Damn nice, you have a golden DDR4 IMC. Do you have a HWInfo readout? What P-core SP?


----------



## SSBrain

050 said:


> Well sadly after returning my previous chip and getting a new one (from a newer batch), I got an all-around worse chip - sp87 p92 e78 (previous was sp91, p96 e81 and I thought that was mid-low end.) Annoying!
> View attachment 2559193
> 
> 
> I'll just have to test it and see if it works any better for me!


What was the worst 12900KS observed so far in this thread? I'm curious to see how high Intel is willing to go for the VID of the worst cores in these processors. 1.533V is the highest I recall.


----------



## DSHG87

I dont have ROG Board, but I havent seen worse VIDs in Windows so far than mine.


----------



## SSBrain

While core VIDs as observed in Asus motherboards (or derived by isolating cores via BIOS settings on other motherboards) define a target voltage, actually requested/displayed values that can be observed in monitoring software depend also on motherboard settings like C-states, TVB voltage optimization, IA AC/DC Loadline, etc.


----------



## DSHG87

It is all set to Auto. So LLC is 3, TVB Voltage optimization ist enabled, ABT is enabled, Multicore Enhancement is disabled and limits are set to 241/150/56.


----------



## SSBrain

AC Loadline in particular has a major effect on load voltages, when Adaptive voltages (usually employed with Auto voltage settings) are used. On some motherboards it can be set particularly high by default, while on others it can even be too low by default and cause instabilities.

This is also assuming that the DC loadline has been set correctly; if not, which is likely the case after changing LLC from default values, true voltages (actually applied to the CPU) may differ significantly from VID. So, you should also check out "Vcore" or "VR VOUT" on HWInfo. It might show lower, higher or the same values as Core VID.


----------



## DSHG87

I dont know where to find VR Out?


----------



## SSBrain

If it's missing it means that don't have it on your motherboard. In any case, Vcore from motherboard sensors is sufficient for knowing that actual voltages (looking at their maximum values) are in rough agreement with core VIDs.


----------



## fat4l

Guys just some heads up...

My direct die block was supposed to be delivered today. They(dhl) just sent me a message my address was wrong. Yes it was. The guy in Thailand screwed it up. If you have the block on order recheck what address he put in and fix on time. Now I gotta wait one more day for redelivery lol.


----------



## DSHG87

SSBrain said:


> If it's missing it means that don't have it on your motherboard. In any case, Vcore from motherboard sensors is sufficient for knowing that actual voltages (looking at their maximum values) are in rough agreement with core VIDs.


So I do have a really bad KS?


----------



## SSBrain

DSHG87 said:


> So I do have a really bad KS?


I think it will be hard to tell until you start tweaking voltages and see how low you can go. Your voltages can still be a matter of your motherboard using high values for a reason or another (e.g. high AC Loadline setting as I mentioned) rather than a case of a low-quality processor.

There's also a way for knowing the "native" core VID / the highest VIDs per core on other motherboards; Skatterbencher described it in detail here:


https://skatterbencher.com/2021/11/25/skatterbencher-31-intel-core-i7-12700k-overclocked-to-5400-mhz/#Vf_Curve_P-core


----------



## DSHG87

Thanks. But that seems to be for MSI, my Asus dont have Lite Load Control as needed for that tutorial.


----------



## SSBrain

DSHG87 said:


> Thanks. But that seems to be for MSI, my Asus dont have Lite Load Control as needed for that tutorial.


The method is general. There should be a menu for setting up AC/DC loadlines on your board as well. It should be in mOhm directly, so instead of "1" as instructed there, "0.01" should be configured.


----------



## DSHG87

And LLC 8 MSI must be set to 1 on Asus?


----------



## SSBrain

On MSI motherboards LLC8 is the lowest (droopiest) setting, so that should be set up correspondingly on ASUS, according to SkatterBencher's instructions.


----------



## DSHG87

Thanks!

But just for my information; those voltages my KS takes (1.485V max. and ~1.40-1.46V ingame / 1.27-1.36V full load like Cinebench) arent a problem? (degradation, lifespan?)


----------



## jomama22

Electrosoft said:


> Same thing happened to me from Amazon when I bought a 12900k. Someone had meticulously resealed it just enough. And yep, it was trash too.


Not sure why they would even reseal it. They would accept an open return anyway lol


----------



## jomama22

sugi0lover said:


> Like we know, SP doesn't tell everything.
> This 12900KS is only SP90 (P98/E75) and see how it performs even though it's delidded.
> Especially, E cores and Cache are unsually good (not my result)
> 
> APEX 0086Bios / P55 / E44 / Ring 47 / Ram 7200 C32 / Vcore 1.39 LLC7
> View attachment 2559006
> 
> 
> View attachment 2559007


Yup, almost exactly the same as my best KS so far (SP 90 as well, p-core 97, does nearly the same voltage for 5.5). SP means nothing for ks


----------



## SSBrain

DSHG87 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> But just for my information; those voltages my KS takes (1.485V max. and ~1.40-1.46V ingame / 1.27-1.36V full load like Cinebench) arent a problem? (degradation, lifespan?)


I think others have already mentioned that it's the combination of voltages+current+temperatures that matters, not one thing alone except for extreme values. Given the fused VID of some 12900KS samples, Intel seems to think that for few-cores and/or light loads at least 1.5V are fine. All-core load will require more current and generate more heat, so voltages will of course be lower to keep things in check. 1.36V at full load for programs like Cinebench seem quite reasonable.

I cannot give an authoritative answer on whether degradation will occur or how fast.


----------



## fat4l

Someone said IHS on KS is different than normal one... here is the pic


----------



## Ichirou

Good news for people wanting a direct die frame without having to rely on the proprietary direct die solution from Supercool:


> Hi,
> 
> We love direct to die and that was my first thought when the 12th gen came out.
> I ran into a big problem right off the bat.
> The CPU die is very thin at 0.43mm (about the thickness of 4 to 5 sheets of printer paper).
> This means that what ever material the direct to die frame is made of will need to support the pressure needed to get good contact on all pins. This pressure is 105 to 160 pounds.
> Aluminum is never going to work. Steel may not work so that leaves titanium. Which may work.
> 
> However, I am a very small shop (1 man) making a very niche product and with the flood of orders since the 12th gen came out, I’m struggling to keep up and almost no time to devote to developing a direct to die frame.
> I have hired another worker but she is in the training phase now so actually requires more attention! She just completed her first week and I see that she is smart, hard worker and should get up to speed quickly.
> Once she is able to handle the kit assembly, packing and shipping, I’ll be able to devote time to developing a direct to die.
> In preparation I have ordered a bunch of new materials. 4140 chromoly steel, hardened tool steel and titanium.
> 
> So, if it can be made, I will make it. Just takes time.
> 
> I did make some prototype backplates and that eliminates the bending issue. We use them on all of our test benches and have shipped a few to customers to test.
> 
> Anyway, stay tuned.
> Thanks,
> James
> Rockit Cool


----------



## 050

I went back through the last 40-50 pages of the thread and grabbed data from any Asus bios screenshots of the vid/sp score page that people have posted and put it into a quick spreadsheet. It is worth noting that a) 16 samples is not a lot and b) There's probably some confirmation bias in what people think is worth posting (especially here). I also recognize that the SP score is not the end of the line defining word on how a chip overclocks. That said:











Here's the VID Min, Max, and average plotted vs P-core SP Score:












Spoiler: [S]Plots - VID Min, Max, AVG [/S] Error in data alignment; plots left up for clarity. Refer to corrected plot























Here's The first chart augmented with trend lines and the associated equations. Interestingly, from this small sample size, it looks like the maximum vid trends down as p-core sp score increases, while the minimum is fairly evenly distributed.


Spoiler: Error chart - data misaligned!















Edit: I realized that the data was off by one point in the previous graphs! I have corrected it and here's the new plot:


----------



## Ichirou

050 said:


> I went back through the last 40-50 pages of the thread and grabbed data from any Asus bios screenshots of the vid/sp score page that people have posted and put it into a quick spreadsheet. It is worth noting that a) 16 samples is not a lot and b) There's probably some confirmation bias in what people think is worth posting (especially here). I also recognize that the SP score is not the end of the line defining word on how a chip overclocks. That said:
> 
> View attachment 2559235
> 
> 
> 
> Here's the VID Min, Max, and average plotted vs P-core SP Score:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Plots - VID Min, Max, AVG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2559236
> 
> View attachment 2559237
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's The first chart augmented with trend lines and the associated equations. Interestingly, from this small sample size, it looks like the maximum vid trends down as p-core sp score increases, while the minimum is fairly evenly distributed.
> View attachment 2559238


You didn't really need to do that... It's pretty well-known at this point that the VIDs (and SP scores) are loosely allocated to the KS chips. So loose that people need to manually overclock just to see the exact maximum clocks their chips can handle, and at what Vcore setting.

The K/KF chips are much more exact, however.

Overall, if you are _still_ relying on SP scores, then know that a P-core SP of 100+ for the KS is "good", and below it is likely "bad". But to what extent? That depends on testing.
For the K/KF, the groups are pretty clearly divided at 110+, 100+, and below 100, being golden, above average, and meh, accordingly.


----------



## 050

Ichirou said:


> You didn't really need to do that... It's pretty well-known at this point that the VIDs (and SP scores) are loosely allocated to the KS chips. So loose that people need to manually overclock just to see the exact maximum clocks their chips can handle, and at what Vcore setting.
> 
> The K/KF chips are much more exact, however.
> 
> Overall, if you are _still_ relying on SP scores, then know that a P-core SP of 100+ for the KS is "good", and below it is likely "bad". But to what extent? That depends on testing.
> For the K/KF, the groups are pretty clearly divided at 110+, 100+, and below 100, being golden, above average, and meh, accordingly.


Oh yeah I certainly didn't _need_ to I just wanted to see the additional data. From this small sample size it was interesting to see how in some chips there's a significantly tighter cluster of VIDs across the cores while others have a pair of significantly better cores and a collection of much worse ones. 

Overall I wanted to get some perspective on how "bad" as a baseline a p-core 92 score with VID readouts of 1.533v is...

Actually as I type this I realized I have an error in those plots!! The 1.533v is mis-assigned to the 98 score... one sec.









Here is the corrected plot, I'll update that post!


----------



## SSBrain

Can you plot the trendline with the average between VID Min and VID Max?

But the SP rating formula might take into account not just the min and max, but also other cores as well.


----------



## Ichirou

050 said:


> Oh yeah I certainly didn't _need_ to I just wanted to see the additional data. From this small sample size it was interesting to see how in some chips there's a significantly tighter cluster of VIDs across the cores while others have a pair of significantly better cores and a collection of much worse ones.
> 
> Overall I wanted to get some perspective on how "bad" as a baseline a p-core 92 score with VID readouts of 1.533v is...
> 
> Actually as I type this I realized I have an error in those plots!! The 1.533v is mis-assigned to the 98 score... one sec.
> View attachment 2559243
> 
> 
> Here is the corrected plot, I'll update that post!


FYI, you're mixing the P-core SP and global SP scores together in the same chart.
The E-cores need a different amount of Vcore. They're only linked to the P-cores by the maximum Vcore you give the chip.


----------



## 050

Ichirou said:


> FYI, you're mixing the P-core SP and global SP scores together in the same chart.
> The E-cores need a different amount of Vcore. They're only linked to the P-cores by the maximum Vcore you give the chip.


I plotted those over the P-core SP rather than the overall SP; is that what you're referring to? No global SP scores are used in those plots but here's one plotting P-core stats vs calculated ((2*P)+E)/3 SP global score:











SSBrain said:


> Can you plot the trendline with the average between VID Min and VID Max?
> 
> But the SP rating formula might take into account not just the min and max, but also other cores as well.


Here's the average added back in with a trend line:









Unfortunately I do not have a much larger set of data points but imo the high r-squared value on the VID average trend line seems to indicate that all of the variation in VID average is linked to the p-core score - or, to flip that around, it seems like the p-core score may be overall derived from the average VID for the p-cores rather than from the extreme highs or lows in the list though they do correlate as well. Perhaps not useful, but interesting!


----------



## SSBrain

The points are quite tight with the average of min/max VID, so that could possibly be the base for the P-cores rating.


----------



## 050

SSBrain said:


> The points are quite tight with the average of min/max VID, so that could possibly be the base for the P-cores rating.


I was just noticing the same thing and had just finished editing the post to include that. I suspect you are correct but it would be nice to have a thousand or so chips to pull data from!


----------



## 050

Most people probably don't care as much for the E-cores as the P-cores, but here's the E-core VID vs the E-core SP score:









Similar to the correlation of P-core Average VID with P-core score, the E-core score seems derived from the E-core VID value. If it isn't it at least correlates very well! It is just a single voltage value instead of the set (for each core) in the p-cores so this makes some sense. There's really only so much it could be based off of.


----------



## SSBrain

If anything, from this data one could derive an equation that could be used on non-ASUS motherboards. Perhaps with some investigation a correction value for other processors could be found as well.


----------



## Falkentyne

fat4l said:


> Someone said IHS on KS is different than normal one... here is the pic


BTW, I remember now from my testing on the Z390 Aorus Master, the lower switching frequency settings didn't do a thing at extremely droopy LLC settings. 
Going from 500 khz to 300 khz was most obvious on LLC: Turbo (= LLC6 on Asus), although it obviously worked on Extreme and Ultra Extreme (LLC7 and 8), but the transient penalties (higher vmin needed) from using such super aggressive LLC's made using them not worth it to begin with. So if people are testing lower sw freq with LLC2 or LLC3 on Z690 and getting no decent results, that's why. Just taking a guess there.


----------



## fat4l

050 said:


> Most people probably don't care as much for the E-cores as the P-cores, but here's the E-core VID vs the E-core SP score:
> View attachment 2559249
> 
> 
> Similar to the correlation of P-core Average VID with P-core score, the E-core score seems derived from the E-core VID value. If it isn't it at least correlates very well! It is just a single voltage value instead of the set (for each core) in the p-cores so this makes some sense. There's really only so much it could be based off of.


Here mate over 190 cpus  

Time to make new graphs 









ADL Binning Mew 2022 Update


Info 2022 Update Motherboard: Maximus Z690 Hero BIOS 1403 RAM: 2x16GB Corsair 5600 Data collected by Bullshooter, Sergmann, DaGunzi and quiekMew thanks to gunzi for entering the 2022 numbers from paper :) For 2021: Motherboard: Maximus Z690 Hero BIOS 0803 RAM: 1x16GB Micron ES Data collected by ...




docs.google.com


----------



## 050

fat4l said:


> Here mate over 190 cpus
> 
> Time to make new graphs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADL Binning Mew 2022 Update
> 
> 
> Info 2022 Update Motherboard: Maximus Z690 Hero BIOS 1403 RAM: 2x16GB Corsair 5600 Data collected by Bullshooter, Sergmann, DaGunzi and quiekMew thanks to gunzi for entering the 2022 numbers from paper :) For 2021: Motherboard: Maximus Z690 Hero BIOS 0803 RAM: 1x16GB Micron ES Data collected by ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docs.google.com


Well hot dang, thank you that's very interesting! I will have to put a few plots together with this - can't do anything about the spread/standard deviation of the vids since that's missing but I will take a look at this for sure. Very cool!


----------



## SSBrain

fat4l said:


> Here mate over 190 cpus
> 
> Time to make new graphs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADL Binning Mew 2022 Update
> 
> 
> Info 2022 Update Motherboard: Maximus Z690 Hero BIOS 1403 RAM: 2x16GB Corsair 5600 Data collected by Bullshooter, Sergmann, DaGunzi and quiekMew thanks to gunzi for entering the 2022 numbers from paper :) For 2021: Motherboard: Maximus Z690 Hero BIOS 0803 RAM: 1x16GB Micron ES Data collected by ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docs.google.com


Too bad there's no sheet for 12700K CPUs. I think mine should have a P-core SP rating of 72-73 or thereabouts.


----------



## fat4l

owwwwww got an offer now .... 5.6G (1.36v load volts) capable KS(18C cold water), SP98/P105/E85 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I already delided my chip...and now this...wrrrr.

Maybe someone here in the UK is interested in 5.5G capable cpu(before delid), delided ? I could sell my cpu and buy that one potentially


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Found my 5.4 instability... CL was slightly too low. Changed from 30 to 32 and bam, works 24/7 10 30min CB23 runs back to back never going past 80c.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

fat4l said:


> owwwwww got an offer now .... 5.6G (1.36v load volts) capable KS(18C cold water), SP98/P105/E85 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I already delided my chip...and now this...wrrrr.
> 
> Maybe someone here in the UK is interested in 5.5G capable cpu(before delid), delided ? I could sell my cpu and buy that one potentially


I am interested. Depending on the price?


----------



## Ichirou

fat4l said:


> Here mate over 190 cpus
> 
> Time to make new graphs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADL Binning Mew 2022 Update
> 
> 
> Info 2022 Update Motherboard: Maximus Z690 Hero BIOS 1403 RAM: 2x16GB Corsair 5600 Data collected by Bullshooter, Sergmann, DaGunzi and quiekMew thanks to gunzi for entering the 2022 numbers from paper :) For 2021: Motherboard: Maximus Z690 Hero BIOS 0803 RAM: 1x16GB Micron ES Data collected by ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docs.google.com


Hm, that spreadsheet seems to imply that the 12900K mostly gives garbage chips, while the KF (low sample size) and KS generally have a much higher chance of giving a good chip. The KS does seem to be pretty much binary, as I suspected. It's either good or bad.
It also seems like batch number doesn't matter, since there are both good and bad chips in a batch. But some batches are overall better/worse than others.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

fat4l said:


> owwwwww got an offer now .... 5.6G (1.36v load volts) capable KS(18C cold water), SP98/P105/E85 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I already delided my chip...and now this...wrrrr.
> 
> Maybe someone here in the UK is interested in 5.5G capable cpu(before delid), delided ? I could sell my cpu and buy that one potentially


I messaged you. Just realised you messaged me before. Couldn't see that section.


----------



## Ichirou

Does anyone know whether or not HWInfo reports the same VIDs as the ones shown in the SP readings of ASUS boards?


----------



## 050

Here's a plot of the data from that spreadsheet (exempting a few points where voltages were not recorded, etc):









This is for the data on the 12900KS page. 
The 89 P-SP chip in there... ouch. Over 1.55v for the worst VID. That's unfortunate.


Here's the spread between best VID and worst VID for those chips - Interesting that it seems fairly flat, perhaps with a lump in the middle where some of the core is "good" and some is "bad" - vs the ends where all of the core is either "good" or "bad", relatively speaking.


----------



## Ichirou

050 said:


> Here's a plot of the data from that spreadsheet (exempting a few points where voltages were not recorded, etc):
> View attachment 2559276
> 
> 
> This is for the data on the 12900KS page.
> The 89 P-SP chip in there... ouch. Over 1.55v for the worst VID. That's unfortunate.
> 
> 
> Here's the spread between best VID and worst VID for those chips - Interesting that it seems fairly flat, perhaps with a lump in the middle where some of the core is "good" and some is "bad" - vs the ends where all of the core is either "good" or "bad", relatively speaking.
> View attachment 2559277


While you're doing this sort of work anyway, could you help me out for a second?

Can you post a screenshot of your SP score page, and also a screenshot of HWInfo's requested VIDs when the chip is run at 55x all-core?
Don't need to put on any load, so slap on enough Vcore just to boot it up and get a reading. I just want to see how the VIDs in the BIOS and in HWInfo correlate.

I have a feeling that users of non-ASUS boards should be able to guesstimate their P-core SP scores from the VIDs read in HWInfo.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

My dudes with great pleasure I can announce that my chip started doing 5.5 and 4.4 on all cores with ram at 6800CL30 and VID is at 1.51 but core voltage at 1.35V. temps are mid 80's.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> My dudes with great pleasure I can announce that my chip started doing 5.5 and 4.4 on all cores with ram at 6800CL30 and VID is at 1.51 but core voltage at 1.35V. temps are mid 80's.
> View attachment 2559284
> View attachment 2559285


Could you provide an HWInfo and SP score readout?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> Could you provide an HWInfo and SP score readout?


I will after it passes Cinebench R23 for at least 30 min


----------



## 050

Ichirou said:


> While you're doing this sort of work anyway, could you help me out for a second?
> 
> Can you post a screenshot of your SP score page, and also a screenshot of HWInfo's requested VIDs when the chip is run at 55x all-core?
> Don't need to put on any load, so slap on enough Vcore just to boot it up and get a reading. I just want to see how the VIDs in the BIOS and in HWInfo correlate.
> 
> I have a feeling that users of non-ASUS boards should be able to guesstimate their P-core SP scores from the VIDs read in HWInfo.


I am in-between chips at the moment but that is an interesting idea for sure. Once I get another one installed I will look at that!


----------



## digitalfrost

I'm confused HWiNFO cannot read per core VIDs, can it?

e: Damn I found it  it was folded in.


----------



## Ichirou

digitalfrost said:


> I'm confused HWiNFO cannot read per core VIDs, can it?


Don't think it really matters, since the Vcore used in the system is shared across all cores.
So the VID would request the highest amount of Vcore (likely by the worst core), which is what matters.

@050 Thank you. It's mostly because of this chart you made:








If my theory is correct, by averaging out the VIDs read by HWInfo, it should be possible to gain a rough estimate for what a chip's P-core SP is on a non-ASUS board, so long as the CPU is running an all-core of the max turbo multiplier (52x for K/KF or 55x for KS).

The SP scores are derived from Intel's VIDs at the end of the day, so it shouldn't be too far off. And based on your chart, the average VIDs seem to be relatively linear in terms of how they scale with P-core SP. Your chart is for KS chips, but it shouldn't be difficult to find someone else with a similar average VID to see what their P-core SP is for K/KF chips.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> Don't think it really matters, since the Vcore used in the system is shared across all cores.
> So the VID would request the highest amount of Vcore (likely by the worst core), which is what matters.
> 
> @050 Thank you


HWInfo crashes my Cinebench R23. Warning message comes up it regarding crashing because I'm opening the sensors. I'll try Cinebench R23 without it and then few single runs with it on so I can show you.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> HWInfo crashes my Cinebench R23. Warning message comes up it regarding crashing because I'm opening the sensors. I'll try Cinebench R23 without it and then few single runs with it on so I can show you.


Can you give a raw HWInfo readout before running R23? You can provide the on-load one afterwards.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Take this anyone who claims Intel 7 isn't efficient! Fully 30 minutes R23 tested (took screenshot during another run) and power draw doesn't hit 180w








. 1.06V set droops down to about 1.0V die sense under load. 4.9 P cores and 3.9 e cores with 40 on the cache with 2 Core loads boosting up to 5.2 GHz (basically imitating stock 12900K settings with a voltage reduction).


----------



## 050

Finally, third try is the charm! Got myself what seems to be exactly the chip I want to play with - SP96, P106 E79










Hooray! Now to testing. Booting up everything looks great stock and the VIDs are reasonable, temps are good.



Ichirou said:


> Don't think it really matters, since the Vcore used in the system is shared across all cores.
> So the VID would request the highest amount of Vcore (likely by the worst core), which is what matters.
> 
> @050 Thank you. It's mostly because of this chart you made:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If my theory is correct, by averaging out the VIDs read by HWInfo, it should be possible to gain a rough estimate for what a chip's P-core SP is on a non-ASUS board, so long as the CPU is running an all-core of the max turbo multiplier (52x for K/KF or 55x for KS).
> 
> The SP scores are derived from Intel's VIDs at the end of the day, so it shouldn't be too far off. And based on your chart, the average VIDs seem to be relatively linear in terms of how they scale with P-core SP. Your chart is for KS chips, but it shouldn't be difficult to find someone else with a similar average VID to see what their P-core SP is for K/KF chips.


I set the multiplier to sync all cores, 55. I did not change anything else so it is running on the default for the z690-e strix (LL4) and auto voltage.
Looks like the VID goes up over 1.57v! That's actually kind of surprising, I would have thought it would track well with the VIDs listed in the table in the bios. This is at idle - the system booted up no problem but I don't want to run these voltages all the time, for sure.










Here's more shots of HWINO64 at idle:


Spoiler: HWINFO































Vcore actually got as high as 1.55v so that's pretty wild. Not gonna load that up, my cooling loop would not suffice even if it were stable.

Applying Asus AI overclocking and +2 TVB (Because I want to leave it testing for a bit as a first try):









Under a cinebench r23 load it is running well so far (~28600 score or so) and staying cool (ish) at a peak of 93c on the package. 
With these settings the Vcore got as high as 1.350v so no worries there. Looking forward to seeing how I can tune things manually!


----------



## Ichirou

050 said:


> View attachment 2559306
> 
> Finally, third try is the charm! Got myself what seems to be exactly the chip I want to play with - SP96, P106 E79
> 
> View attachment 2559300
> 
> 
> Hooray! Now to testing. Booting up everything looks great stock and the VIDs are reasonable, temps are good.
> 
> 
> 
> I set the multiplier to sync all cores, 55. I did not change anything else so it is running on the default for the z690-e strix (LL4) and auto voltage.
> Looks like the VID goes up over 1.57v! That's actually kind of surprising, I would have thought it would track well with the VIDs listed in the table in the bios. This is at idle - the system booted up no problem but I don't want to run these voltages all the time, for sure.
> 
> View attachment 2559302
> 
> 
> Here's more shots of HWINO64 at idle:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: HWINFO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2559304
> 
> View attachment 2559305
> 
> View attachment 2559303
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vcore actually got as high as 1.55v so that's pretty wild. Not gonna load that up, my cooling loop would not suffice even if it were stable.
> 
> Applying Asus AI overclocking and +2 TVB (Because I want to leave it testing for a bit as a first try):
> View attachment 2559307
> 
> 
> Under a cinebench r23 load it is running well so far (~28600 score or so) and staying cool (ish) at a peak of 93c on the package.
> With these settings the Vcore got as high as 1.350v so no worries there. Looking forward to seeing how I can tune things manually!


Hm, guess my theory is wrong then. Oh well.
A P-core SP of 106 is insanely high. Even sugi0lover's friend's golden chip is P-core 108, and that's only a little behind his chip.
Of course, the SP might be miscalculated (as is the case with many KS chips), so you'd have to find out how strong your own chip is.
Try 55x all-core at like, 1.35-1.40V max, manual voltage, at like, LLC 6-7, and work your way down.


----------



## Gadfly

sugi0lover said:


> Can you tell me when you ordered it? I am still waiting for it.


I ordered March 30, and it arrived yesterday.


----------



## sugi0lover

Gadfly said:


> I ordered March 30, and it arrived yesterday.


Thanks for the update! I ordered Apr 18, so I guess I have to wait for a while.
If you can, please share your direct die experience with us.


----------



## sugi0lover

Another good 12900KS SP sample posted today (98/106/82)
P SP is a little lower than my friend's P SP 108.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Any cpu can do y cruncher or linx at 5.5ghz without turning off E core and HT and on 25c-30c water?


----------



## 050

Wow that's quite the sample! It also demonstrates the 4-4 clustering of VIDs, interesting. Nice!


----------



## Gadfly

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for the update! I ordered Apr 18, so I guess I have to wait for a while.
> If you can, please share your direct die experience with us.


Well …. Funny thing, I didn’t really order it. The order I received was meant to be two memory water block kits, I got one water block kit and one direct die kit. So …. If he ever responds to my emails; It most likely will be returned; or I will just pay him for it as long as he sends me my other memory block kit and sell it. 

I swear…. I have have more issues this generation than I have had in 30 years of being a hardware overclocking junkie. Defective board, defective cpu, missing orders, wrong orders, 

Good news is the water block kit appears to be very well made.


----------



## Gadfly

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Any cpu can do y cruncher or linx at 5.5ghz without turning off E core and HT and on 25c-30c water?



My 12900KS runs 5.5/4.3 stable at 1.283v vcore (under load), It will run 5.6 stable with no ecores, but I thermally limited on my test bench was it only has an EK 360 AIO. I have not tried linux yet, but it is occt/Aida/Y-cruncher stable.

I have it all apart right now moving my bench over to a small loop. As soon as I get it all put back together I’ll post some screens.


----------



## Gadfly

sugi0lover said:


> Another good 12900KS SP sample posted today (98/106/82)
> P SP is a little lower than my friend's P SP 108.
> View attachment 2559314


Pretty sure the KS scores differently than the K/KF even on the latest bios. SP P 108 on a KS is more like a 115+ on a K/KF


----------



## sugi0lover

Gadfly said:


> Pretty sure the KS scores differently than the K/KF even on the latest bios. SP P 108 on a KS is more like a 115+ on a K/KF


Yes. SP of 12900KS is equal to SP of 12900K + at least 5. My friend tested 12900K P SP115 and 12900KS P 108 and 115 K required 0.04v lower than 108 KS under the same system. But that's just two samples, so no generalization.


----------



## xarot

I have P107/E78 but I have still a lot of problems cooling the chip so haven't had any chance to really try any overclocking. Yesterday I tried new EK Velocity2 1700 block and included it into my main PC loop with 480 45nm+360 60mm+360 27mm radiator space, in CB23 loop the temp still goes up to 95c on hottest core.  This is with the enforce all limit settings and mostly everything is still at stock. I have tried a few different pastes, paste application methods, two waterblocks with 1700 mounts, two different WC loops, NH-D15s, two motherboards (Maximus Extreme DDR5 and Z690-P DDR4). Nothing helps. It looks like once the chip pulls more than 220W the dissipation from the chip itself doesn't really work anymore. Paste spread is very inconsistent. Delid kit incoming from China.

From what I've read from various reviews, 12900KS is the "give me all you can against the set thermal temperature and I will deliver" type of chip. If I remove all limits setting, it will turn into a thermal disaster, as power consumption can go well over 300W. In my country they built 15000 euro PC with two loops, 2xEK XE 360 only for the 12900KS with Maximus Extreme Glacial mobo, in CB23 their highest core temperature went quickly up to 96c without any "overclock" so hmm...

Btw that mounting mechanism to tighten the screws from the flip side of the motherboard with the EK Velocity 2 absolutely sucks.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> Could you provide an HWInfo and SP score readout?


As promised:


----------



## sugi0lover

Someone did his personal review of 12th gen bending preventive frame from ThermalRight.
His result is amazing. 8C decreased from the original frame.
I know some other people ordered this frame, so I will share other results when posted.

same thermal / same Enermax 240/ same CineR23 10 min


----------



## SSBrain

050 said:


> This is for the data on the 12900KS page.
> The 89 P-SP chip in there... ouch. Over 1.55v for the worst VID. That's unfortunate.


That's anyway good to know for those concerned about voltages. There might even be worse samples requiring somewhat higher voltages, although there has to be some voltage margin from the upper limit.


----------



## satinghostrider

sugi0lover said:


> Someone did his personal review of 12th gen bending preventive frame from ThermalRight.
> His result is amazing. 8C decreased from the original frame.
> I know some other people ordered this frame, so I will share other results when posted.
> 
> same thermal / same Enermax 240/ same CineR23 10 min
> View attachment 2559350
> 
> View attachment 2559340


Hey Sugi,

When you get yours, could you also advise how much torque you need for those screws interms of turns or something?
Derbauer one has a marking on the frame and he adjusts 90 degrees turns to tighten and that is it.
Since this frame does not have such a marking, perhaps you could let us know how much you tighten so that it gives ppl like me an idea so I can also get one to install on mine.

Thanks Sugi!


----------



## sugi0lover

satinghostrider said:


> Hey Sugi,
> 
> When you get yours, could you also advise how much torque you need for those screws interms of turns or something?
> Derbauer one has a marking on the frame and he adjusts 90 degrees turns to tighten and that is it.
> Since this frame does not have such a marking, perhaps you could let us know how much you tighten so that it gives ppl like me an idea so I can also get one to install on mine.
> 
> Thanks Sugi!


Oh, I am going to use direct die kit frame, so I am not gonna use that one. 
If there is any info for your Q, I will let you know. I will ask the guy who reviewed it.


----------



## Nizzen

xarot said:


> I have P107/E78 but I have still a lot of problems cooling the chip so haven't had any chance to really try any overclocking. Yesterday I tried new EK Velocity2 1700 block and included it into my main PC loop with 480 45nm+360 60mm+360 27mm radiator space, in CB23 loop the temp still goes up to 95c on hottest core.  This is with the enforce all limit settings and mostly everything is still at stock. I have tried a few different pastes, paste application methods, two waterblocks with 1700 mounts, two different WC loops, NH-D15s, two motherboards (Maximus Extreme DDR5 and Z690-P DDR4). Nothing helps. It looks like once the chip pulls more than 220W the dissipation from the chip itself doesn't really work anymore. Paste spread is very inconsistent. Delid kit incoming from China.
> 
> From what I've read from various reviews, 12900KS is the "give me all you can against the set thermal temperature and I will deliver" type of chip. If I remove all limits setting, it will turn into a thermal disaster, as power consumption can go well over 300W. In my country they built 15000 euro PC with two loops, 2xEK XE 360 only for the 12900KS with Maximus Extreme Glacial mobo, in CB23 their highest core temperature went quickly up to 96c without any "overclock" so hmm...
> 
> Btw that mounting mechanism to tighten the screws from the flip side of the motherboard with the EK Velocity 2 absolutely sucks.


Direct die is the key. Just like with 7980xe 
Direct die cooling pretty much "unlocket" all 10900k i tested. Even sp 63 ran Cinebench r20 @ 5.5ghz on water
Sp86 did loop 5.6ghz using supercool computer direct die block.


----------



## xarot

Nizzen said:


> Direct die is the key. Just like with 7980xe
> Direct die cooling pretty much "unlocket" all 10900k i tested. Even sp 63 ran Cinebench r20 @ 5.5ghz on water
> Sp86 did loop 5.6ghz using supercool computer direct die block.


I have Thermalright bending preventing bracket incoming and Rockit delid kit. I hope it could tame the chip a bit..just seems to be taking a few weeks at minimum for them to arrive.


----------



## EarlZ

Will those anti bend frames work with AIO's?


----------



## satinghostrider

EarlZ said:


> Will those anti bend frames work with AIO's?


I don't see why it would not you're only replacing the socket mechanism. The AIO mounting connects to the 4 outer holes which is not used by this new bracket.


----------



## Falkentyne

sugi0lover said:


> Someone did his personal review of 12th gen bending preventive frame from ThermalRight.
> His result is amazing. 8C decreased from the original frame.
> I know some other people ordered this frame, so I will share other results when posted.
> 
> same thermal / same Enermax 240/ same CineR23 10 min
> View attachment 2559350
> 
> View attachment 2559340


Is the frame made out of aluminum or something else? Aluminum means liquid metal cant touch it...


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Falkentyne said:


> Is the frame made out of aluminum or something else? Aluminum means liquid metal cant touch it...


Cover it in conformal coating where it counts haha


----------



## sugi0lover

satinghostrider said:


> Hey Sugi,
> 
> When you get yours, could you also advise how much torque you need for those screws interms of turns or something?
> Derbauer one has a marking on the frame and he adjusts 90 degrees turns to tighten and that is it.
> Since this frame does not have such a marking, perhaps you could let us know how much you tighten so that it gives ppl like me an idea so I can also get one to install on mine.
> 
> Thanks Sugi!


I asked him and he tightened it at the maximum with his fingers.


EarlZ said:


> Will those anti bend frames work with AIO's?


Yes. The guy of the review I posted used AIO.


Falkentyne said:


> Is the frame made out of aluminum or something else? Aluminum means liquid metal cant touch it...


----------



## satinghostrider

sugi0lover said:


> I asked him and he tightened it at the maximum with his fingers.
> 
> Yes. The guy of the review I posted used AIO.
> 
> 
> 
> https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005004199664661.html?_randl_currency=USD&_randl_shipto=US&src=google&memo1=freelisting&albch=rmkt&acnt=576-373-4425&albcp=16529822815&albag=&slnk=&trgt=&plac=&crea=&netw=x&device=m&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_rmkt&gclid=Cj0KCQjwyMiTBhDKARIsAAJ-9Vu6NjVOoWnENDya_raK7zGNJOFKb9FDc4CXizq_pgagPd7uesXht3waAgD0EALw_wcB&aff_fcid=cee97cfc17bf48eb90d4f9fc131c6efa-1651655846146-08090-UneMJZVf&aff_fsk=UneMJZVf&aff_platform=aaf&sk=UneMJZVf&aff_trace_key=cee97cfc17bf48eb90d4f9fc131c6efa-1651655846146-08090-UneMJZVf&terminal_id=bbd850ab789b4c3eb0ceb734ccf2007e&afSmartRedirect=y
> 
> 
> View attachment 2559362


Thanks Sugi!


----------



## owikh84

I did not see any improvement with washer mod or anti bend bracket (LZMod from Taobao China).


----------



## sugi0lover

owikh84 said:


> I did not see any improvement with washer mod or anti bend bracket (LZMod from Taobao China).
> 
> View attachment 2559368
> 
> 
> View attachment 2559367
> 
> 
> View attachment 2559363


Thanks for sharing the info.
These are some samples of this kind frame.
One sample has even negative effect.


----------



## fat4l

Aaaaaaand it's here


----------



## david12900k

sugi0lover said:


> Someone did his personal review of 12th gen bending preventive frame from ThermalRight.
> His result is amazing. 8C decreased from the original frame.
> I know some other people ordered this frame, so I will share other results when posted.
> 
> same thermal / same Enermax 240/ same CineR23 10 min
> View attachment 2559350
> 
> View attachment 2559340


This is why I am hopeful that the frame will help me. My cores 4,5,6 all get very hot, which might be the result of bending if those cores are all close together


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

david12900k said:


> This is why I am hopeful that the frame will help me. My cores 4,5,6 all get very hot, which might be the result of bending if those cores are all close together


My one is ordered as well, waiting for it to arrive. Maybe will let me push my cores to 5.6. hoping for mid 70s temps.


----------



## sugi0lover

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Any cpu can do y cruncher or linx at 5.5ghz without turning off E core and HT and on 25c-30c water?


Here it is!
55/43/45 at water temp 26C


----------



## david12900k

TheNaitsyrk said:


> My one is ordered as well, waiting for it to arrive. Maybe will let me push my cores to 5.6. hoping for mid 70s temps.


I'm cautiously optimistic. It seems that I cannot get stable 5.5 all core from 1.27v to 1.33v under load. I think the issue is temps over 90c causing instability it seems the most stable for me was around 1.294v to 1.305, and my 3 hottest cores stayed from 90-94c and I have heard that over 90 can lead to instability. So if the contact frame really does lower the peak core temps on those cores 3-4 c, then I think that will really help with stability.


----------



## david12900k

TheNaitsyrk said:


> My one is ordered as well, waiting for it to arrive. Maybe will let me push my cores to 5.6. hoping for mid 70s temps.


Also where did you order it? I only see it on German websites and they aren't shipping to the US


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

david12900k said:


> Also where did you order it? I only see it on German websites and they aren't shipping to the US


Supercool computer website. Google for it, it's a Thai website.








Direct Die


Direct Die




www.supercoolcomputer.com


----------



## xarot

If you had that Supercool block installed, can you remove it just like you removed any other direct-die block? Or is it screwed down so that you need to be extra careful with water spills?

Saw a pic where the CPU+IHS is first installed with original mobo bracket and then the block is tightened on top of that. How it could be ever removed like that unless you screwed it off with mobo in your hands and upside down so the water will not spill on the mobo.


----------



## fat4l

its screwed down....you need to get rid of all water that is inside before disassembling it


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

fat4l said:


> its screwed down....you need to get rid of all water that is inside before disassembling it


Got quick connects just for this, lovely.


----------



## matique

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Got quick connects just for this, lovely.


Even with quick disconnects it will not help. After disconnecting with qdc, there will still be water in the block. When you remove the block the water will still come out and leak onto mobo. Only way is to remove the liquid all the way I think.


----------



## dragn09

fat4l said:


> Aaaaaaand it's here


did you get a shipping email? i ordered a month ago and nothing after the payment confirmation


----------



## Gadfly

matique said:


> Even with quick disconnects it will not help. After disconnecting with qdc, there will still be water in the block. When you remove the block the water will still come out and leak onto mobo. Only way is to remove the liquid all the way I think.


This is correct; quick disconnects will not help; but I did come up with a way to remove the block without draining the loop. 

What you have to do is put the screws though the back plate to the CPU clamping frame in backwards (which might require some engineering on your part), so that you can unscrew the CPU clamping frame from the back of the motherboard and the entire water block will lift off the board complete with the CPU clamping frame. 

That said, I wouldn't recommend it. There is a lot of tension on the two halves of the CPU clamping frame; and it could easily damage the board, socket, etc. when it releases. Sadly none of the Solid CPU clamping frames will work with the direct die block; which would have helped


----------



## Gadfly

dragn09 said:


> did you get a shipping email? i ordered a month ago and nothing after the payment confirmation


I did, it was about 5 weeks after I ordered. He does not respond to any emails.


----------



## Ketku-

sugi0lover said:


> Here it is!
> 55/43/45 at water temp 26C
> View attachment 2559379


Mate what Water Sensor you using? Only asking, curious because mine is aquacomputer and dont know it good.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for sharing the info.
> These are some samples of this kind frame.
> One sample has even negative effect.
> View attachment 2559370


Yeah, der8auer found that it largely depends on whether or not the frame itself was bad in the first place. So really depends on motherboard binning.
I mean, the bracket itself is pretty cheap on AliExpress, so it is at least worth a shot. But obviously, if you have plans for other things, it's probably not important.

At this point, the choice is either direct die, or LM with IHS and probably this. So depends on what you decide.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

matique said:


> Even with quick disconnects it will not help. After disconnecting with qdc, there will still be water in the block. When you remove the block the water will still come out and leak onto mobo. Only way is to remove the liquid all the way I think.


I am installed on a bench not a case, I just tilt the bench, remove one quick connect and let it all drain.


----------



## fat4l

dragn09 said:


> did you get a shipping email? i ordered a month ago and nothing after the payment confirmation


Yes. After 2 weeks after the payment


----------



## OffBeatViBE

Is the liquid freezer II 360 good on the lga 1700 ? 
I'm currently using Celsius S36 but its nearly 4 years old and im using the 1200 brackets and want to upgrade...


----------



## Ichirou

OffBeatViBE said:


> Is the liquid freezer II 360 good on the lga 1700 ?
> I'm currently using Celsius S36 but its nearly 4 years old and im using the 1200 brackets and want to upgrade...


If you want to be safe, at least 380mm or better.


----------



## domdtxdissar

SuperMumrik said:


> We might need a dedicated thread at this point, but I just got Horzion Zero Dawn (your fault, but it's a good game )
> I took the liberty to add CB2077 as well since it just got a canned ingame benchmark. Could you do a re-run of FarCry6 so we got matching versions?
> 
> View attachment 2554925
> 
> Horizon Zero Dawn 1080p, performance preset, 50% res scale
> View attachment 2554926
> 
> Cyberpunk 2077, 1080p Low preset


Have finally completed my first game comparison between my maxed 5950x, my 5800x3d and golden samples Alderlake cpus @ ~5.6/5.7ghz 7200MT/s



http://imgur.com/a/TZdNAzm

 vs


http://imgur.com/a/ahnY3nl


*Shadow of the Tomb Raider: 1080p lowest:*

5950x @ ~5100/5000mhz = 353fps average cpu game
12900k @ 5750mhz 4300MT/s CL14 = 373fps average cpu game
5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 402fps average cpu game

*Horizon Zero Dawn: 1080p performance preset, lowest res scale:*

5950x @ ~5100mhz = 301fps average cpu game
12900k @ 5580mhz 7160MT/s CL30 = 321fps average cpu game
5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 313fps average cpu game

*F1 2020 1080p low dx11: Australia benchmark location and dry weather:*

5950x @ ~5100mhz = 490 average fps
5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 555 average fps

*Farcry6 1080p ultra, HD-texture enabled, FSR QTY:*

5950x @ ~5100mhz = 163 average fps
12900k @ 5580mhz 7160MT/s CL30 = 203 average fps
5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 176 average fps

*Cyberpunk 2077: 1080p low *

5950x @ ~5100mhz = 252 average fps
12900k @ 5580mhz 7160MT/s CL30 = 304 average fps
5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 268 average fps

Final Fantasy XV 1080p low: (game engine limited, results with grain of salt)

5950x @ ~5100mhz = 23426 score
12900k @ ~5700mhz(?) = 23585 score
5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 23489 score

Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker 1440p maximum: (game engine limited, results with grain of salt)

5950x @ ~5100mhz = 30553 score
12900k @ ~5700mhz(?) = 33891 score
5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 33764 score

HardwareLux Counter-Strike: Global Offensive benchmark settings: (only scale with clockspeed it seems)

12900k @ 5500mhz 4133MT/s CL16 = 954 fps
5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 716 fps
Max tuned Alderlake beats out Zen3 in games, but i have to say i'm pretty impressed by the5800x3 
...Considering zero binning/golden samples are required for 5800x3d and they dont scale with memory, so you can use a cheapo x470 together with 3200/3600MT/s memory for nice "low-end gaming machine".

Would also be very nice if someone could add results for 12600k etc 

_edit_
Added some of the Alder lake screens:


----------



## SuperMumrik

domdtxdissar said:


> Max tuned Alderlake beats out Zen3 in games, but i have to say i'm pretty impressed by the5800x3
> ...Considering zero binning/golden samples are required for 5800x3d and they dont scale with memory you, so you can use a cheapo x470 together with 3200/3600MT/s memory for nice "low-end gaming machine".


Good job! 5800x3d is definitely a very strong gaming cpu. I am still tempted to get one for my strix B550.
Could you do metro as well? I am really curious

I got a 12600k I my hands, but haven't gotten around to test it yet


----------



## domdtxdissar

SuperMumrik said:


> Good job! 5800x3d is definitely a very strong gaming cpu. I am still tempted to get one for my strix B550.
> Could you do metro as well? I am really curious
> 
> I got a 12600k I my hands, but haven't gotten around to test it yet


Will add metro tomorrow, sleep and work first


----------



## sugi0lover

Ketku- said:


> Mate what Water Sensor you using? Only asking, curious because mine is aquacomputer and dont know it good.


My waterblock is Aquacomputer, and my water temp readiing on hwinfo comes from separate T sensor since hwinfo can't read aqua block temp.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Hello 32k club.
Managed to raise BCLK a bit and reached 32k.

Once I get direct die I'll try 5.6.


----------



## rluker5

So I came across a new dial for some to turn for those using only P-cores and Windows 11.
It turns down the boost clock (and volts) using a windows power plan option. Really only useful if you wanted to reduce the heat your cpu was putting out without changing your bios profile or using any non native overclocking software.

It installs like other hidden power plan options by copy/pasting the line : powercfg -attributes SUB_PROCESSOR 75b0ae3f-bce0-45a7-8c89-c9611c25e100 -ATTRIB_HIDE into a command/powershell/terminal box (your choice, I think all 3 work).
Then you just set your max desired frequency in a power plan (I set up a new one just for this). One of the bigger problems is the max frequency you set is like 25% bigger than you get I.E. 6300 set gets 4900 with my pc, 6000 set gets 4700, 5300 set gets 4100, etc. Also if you have your e-cores enabled a lot of things just don't work in Windows power plans, but I haven't checked this one yet so maybe?

Here's what it looks like messing with it on my pc:









This didn't seem like it deserved a thread but I wanted to put it out there.

Also nabbed a couple more power plan unlocks while browsing for them and they don't seem to do as much (some it's hard to tell f they are doing anything  ) so I'll toss them in a spoiler.


Spoiler



powercfg -attributes SUB_PROCESSOR 12a0ab44-fe28-4fa9-b3bd-4b64f44960a6 -ATTRIB_HIDE perf decrease threshold
powercfg -attributes SUB_PROCESSOR 06cadf0e-64ed-448a-8927-ce7bf90eb35d -ATTRIB_HIDE perf increase threshold
powercfg -attributes SUB_PROCESSOR 45bcc044-d885-43e2-8605-ee0ec6e96b59 -ATTRIB_HIDE perf boost policy
powercfg -attributes SUB_PROCESSOR 465e1f50-b610-473a-ab58-00d1077dc418 -ATTRIB_HIDE perf increase policy
powercfg -attributes SUB_PROCESSOR be337238-0d82-4146-a960-4f3749d470c7 -ATTRIB_HIDE perf boost mode
powercfg -attributes SUB_PROCESSOR 40fbefc7-2e9d-4d25-a185-0cfd8574bac6 -ATTRIB_HIDE perf decrease policy
powercfg -attributes SUB_PROCESSOR 75b0ae3f-bce0-45a7-8c89-c9611c25e100 -ATTRIB_HIDE max frequency
powercfg -attributes SUB_PROCESSOR 3b04d4fd-1cc7-4f23-ab1c-d1337819c4bb -ATTRIB_HIDE allow throttle states


----------



## Nizzen

domdtxdissar said:


> Have finally completed my first game comparison between my maxed 5950x, my 5800x3d and golden samples Alderlake cpus @ ~5.6/5.7ghz 7200MT/s
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/TZdNAzm
> 
> vs
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/ahnY3nl
> 
> 
> *Shadow of the Tomb Raider: 1080p lowest:*
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100/5000mhz = 353fps average cpu game
> 12900k @ 5750mhz 4300MT/s CL14 = 373fps average cpu game
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 402fps average cpu game
> 
> *Horizon Zero Dawn: 1080p performance preset, lowest res scale:*
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 301fps average cpu game
> 12900k @ 5700mhz 7200MT/s = 321fps average cpu game
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 313fps average cpu game
> 
> *F1 2020 1080p low dx11: Australia benchmark location and dry weather:*
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 490 average fps
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 555 average fps
> 
> *Farcry6 1080p ultra, HD-texture enabled, FSR QTY:*
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 163 average fps
> 12900k @ 5700mhz 7200MT/s (?)= 203 average fps
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 176 average fps
> 
> *Cyberpunk 2077: 1080p low *
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 252 average fps
> 12900k @ 5700mhz 7200MT/s = 304 average fps
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 268 average fps
> 
> Final Fantasy XV 1080p low: (game engine limited, results with grain of salt)
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 23426 score
> 12900k @ 5700mhz = 23585 score
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 23489 score
> 
> Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker 1440p maximum: (game engine limited, results with grain of salt)
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 30553 score
> 12900k @ 5700mhz = 33891 score
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 33764 score
> 
> HardwareLux Counter-Strike: Global Offensive benchmark settings: (only scale with clockspeed it seems)
> 
> 12900k @ 5500mhz 4133MT/s CL16 = 954 fps
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 716 fps
> Max tuned Alderlake beats out Zen3 in games, but i have to say i'm pretty impressed by the5800x3
> ...Considering zero binning/golden samples are required for 5800x3d and they dont scale with memory you, so you can use a cheapo x470 together with 3200/3600MT/s memory for nice "low-end gaming machine".
> 
> Would also be very nice if someone could add results for 12600k etc
> 
> _edit_
> Added some of the Alder lake screens:
> View attachment 2559455
> View attachment 2559461
> 
> View attachment 2559457
> View attachment 2559458


Same OS too? Spectre on both?


----------



## Dinnzy

So I Threw a copper IHS and liquid metal on my SP 89 12900k ( 98 p core ) here are the VIDs which I got when I had an Apex.(now on unify x) I mostly used adaptive voltage llc 4. 5.2 was the max I could get stable on R23, temps always hit the 90s. Switched to a Stock KS on launch, not sure the SP on an unify x. the little bugger can do 5.3 easy at around 1.385 llc 6 override mode. 2 cores hit 93. I’m on a triple “thick” rad custom loop. So I even just put in 6, 3000 rpm fans just for fun (now deft) in anticipation of my delided 12900k. Immediately my previous 5.3 setting crashed while benchmarking. I’m able to get 5.2 all stable easily and those temps do not get above 76 for R20. R23 for ****s and giggles I set up an adaptive all core OC at llc 7 @ 1.46 input voltage, hottest core was 86 and most of them stayed in the 70s. I thought; **** this average bad mofo maybe can do 5.3 since my thermal headroom seemed pretty good. Nope cannot get it close. This KS is better, and I really was hoping deliding would narrow the gap. I was thinking I should try reseating the RockItCool IHS and reapply liquid metal on the die. Also I did not glue down the IHS, it seemed pretty centered. Though breathren, what would you do ? I am not as good with the Msi bios, any help would be much appreciated.


----------



## domdtxdissar

Nizzen said:


> Same OS too? Spectre on both?


No my old Spectre install is bloated at this point, so i made a new win10 install for the 5800x3d runs..
(earlier when i did the 5950x runs the spectre install were pretty slim)

And i have no control over the Alder Lake windows installs, but those runs are cherry picked super golden samples with the highest scores i could find.. (binned cores+binned IMC+super cooling+best of the best memory) But feel free to improve the AL numbers if you can 

For this to be a even more fair comparison of "maxed out gaming systems" i would need a new motherboard with an external clockgen so i could run the 5800x3d at ~4900mhz instead of 4450mhz, but i dont think that would change the outcome much in the end either.. Alder Lake should still come out on top.


----------



## Nizzen

domdtxdissar said:


> No my old Spectre install is bloated at this point, so i made a new win10 install for the 5800x3d runs..
> (earlier when i did the 5950x runs the spectre install were pretty slim)
> 
> And i have no control over the Alder Lake windows installs, but i think those runs are cherry picked super golden samples with the highest scores only.. (binned cores+binned IMC+super cooling+best of the best memory) But feel free to improve the AL numbers if you can
> 
> For this to be a even more fair comparison of "maxed out gaming systems" i would need a new motherboard with an external clockgen so i could run the 5800x3d at ~4900mhz instead of 4450mhz, but i dont think that would change the outcome much in the end either.. Alder Lake should still come out on top.


Nice job


----------



## SuperMumrik

domdtxdissar said:


> And i have no control over the Alder Lake windows installs, but i think those runs are cherry picked super golden samples with the highest scores only.. (binned cores+binned IMC+super cooling+best of the best memory) But feel free to improve the AL numbers if you can


Just to clarify.
My 12900k system was "only" running 5577 Mhz non avx clocks(used my ycruncher profile) and 7161MT/s cl30 memory. Core clock doesn't really make any meaningful difference though.

Quite old and bloated win11, but with spectre disabled. I could most certainly improve with a custum win 10 ISO, but outside of SotTR I don't think it would be anything to write home about..

As for binning, the cpu is only decent IMO. I was planning to bin a KS, but life got in its way 😅 Maybe in one months time when my schedule is cleared I might try to get an "upgrade". Still got a complete 12600k system in boxes laying around..


----------



## SSBrain

This will probably not be easily accomplished by many, but I found that Linux kernel compilation under slightly power-limited conditions is a much more effective stability test than Prime95, LinpackXtreme or rendering with Blender or Cinebench.


----------



## Shonk

Does anyone know about VF Point Offsets in detail i have wondered this for a while

I presume it follows the green curve
e.g. with a 50mv offset at 6-11 it can be well over a 50mv offset in the curve
where as if it followed the red line each Multiplier will only be at a max 50mv undervolted
e.g. at 49x or 50x it may be close to 75mv undervolted in the green curve


----------



## Gadfly

Shonk said:


> Does anyone know about VF Point Offsets in detail i have wondered this for a while
> 
> I presume it follows the green curve
> e.g. with a 50mv offset at 6-11 it can be well over a 50mv offset in the curve
> where as if it followed the red line each Multiplier will only be at a max 50mv undervolted
> e.g. at 49x or 50x it may be close to 75mv undervolted in the green curve
> View attachment 2559537


Have you read this guide?

ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load Lines, VF Curves, Adaptive Voltage, By Core & OCTVB | Overclock.net

Even if you don't have an Asus ROG board, the concepts apply to all 12th gen's. My take away is basically you want to use adaptive voltage and per-core performance, and then use the combo of core offsets/V/F point offsets. @RobertoSampaio made an fantastic voltage calculator tool for excel that you can download here:

Dropbox - CPU Voltage Tool - Simplify your life


----------



## SSBrain

Voltages are linearly interpolated between each VF point. So for the graph to be correct you should plot a straight line from VF Point 6 to VF Point 7-11. Furthermore, the baseline voltage for any ratio above the default maximum ratio is the voltage of the default maximum ratio.

Here is an example with my own settings, on a low-quality i7-12700K with a default maximum ratio of 50x. Blue is the 'native' VF curve.


----------



## domdtxdissar

domdtxdissar said:


> Have finally completed my first game comparison between my maxed 5950x, my 5800x3d and golden samples Alderlake cpus @ ~5.6/5.7ghz 7200MT/s
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/TZdNAzm
> 
> vs
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/ahnY3nl
> 
> 
> *Shadow of the Tomb Raider: 1080p lowest:*
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100/5000mhz = 353fps average cpu game
> 12900k @ 5750mhz 4300MT/s CL14 = 373fps average cpu game
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 402fps average cpu game
> 
> *Horizon Zero Dawn: 1080p performance preset, lowest res scale:*
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 301fps average cpu game
> 12900k @ 5580mhz 7160MT/s CL30 = 321fps average cpu game
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 313fps average cpu game
> 
> *F1 2020 1080p low dx11: Australia benchmark location and dry weather:*
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 490 average fps
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 555 average fps
> 
> *Farcry6 1080p ultra, HD-texture enabled, FSR QTY:*
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 163 average fps
> 12900k @ 5580mhz 7160MT/s CL30 = 203 average fps
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 176 average fps
> 
> *Cyberpunk 2077: 1080p low *
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 252 average fps
> 12900k @ 5580mhz 7160MT/s CL30 = 304 average fps
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 268 average fps
> 
> Final Fantasy XV 1080p low: (game engine limited, results with grain of salt)
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 23426 score
> 12900k @ ~5700mhz(?) = 23585 score
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 23489 score
> 
> Final Fantasy XIV: Endwalker 1440p maximum: (game engine limited, results with grain of salt)
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 30553 score
> 12900k @ ~5700mhz(?) = 33891 score
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 33764 score
> 
> HardwareLux Counter-Strike: Global Offensive benchmark settings: (only scale with clockspeed it seems)
> 
> 12900k @ 5500mhz 4133MT/s CL16 = 954 fps
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 716 fps
> Max tuned Alderlake beats out Zen3 in games, but i have to say i'm pretty impressed by the5800x3
> ...Considering zero binning/golden samples are required for 5800x3d and they dont scale with memory, so you can use a cheapo x470 together with 3200/3600MT/s memory for nice "low-end gaming machine".
> 
> Would also be very nice if someone could add results for 12600k etc
> 
> _edit_
> Added some of the Alder lake screens:
> View attachment 2559455
> View attachment 2559461
> 
> View attachment 2559457
> View attachment 2559458





SuperMumrik said:


> Good job! 5800x3d is definitely a very strong gaming cpu. I am still tempted to get one for my strix B550.
> Could you do metro as well? I am really curious
> 
> I got a 12600k I my hands, but haven't gotten around to test it yet


Metro Exodus Benchmark: 1080p low:

5950x @ ~5100mhz = 322 average fps
12900k @ 5580mhz 7160MT/s CL30 = 408 average fps
5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 338 average fps
5800x3d @ 4450mhz, dx11 = 524 average fps



























Metro Exodus Enhanced Benchmark: 1080p low:

12900k @ 5580mhz 7160MT/s CL30 = 250 average fps
5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 237 average fps















Still waiting for 12600k results =)

_edit_
Hmm the frametimes for the 5800x3d look much better, no ?


----------



## SuperMumrik

domdtxdissar said:


> Metro Exodus Benchmark: 1080p low:
> 
> 5950x @ ~5100mhz = 322 average fps
> 12900k @ 5580mhz 7160MT/s CL30 = 408 average fps
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz = 338 average fps
> 5800x3d @ 4450mhz, dx11 = 524 average fps


Nice job! Did not expect DX11 to be faster then DX12 though(and by a huge margin)😲


----------



## nickolp1974

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Maybe. Maybe not. But mine isn't getting delidded lol. Gonna be going on ln2 here next week. Praying she can do close to 7 GHz!


Should scale pretty well considering the high-ish leakage


----------



## Shonk

SSBrain said:


> Voltages are linearly interpolated between each VF point. So for the graph to be correct you should plot a straight line from VF Point 6 to VF Point 7-11. Furthermore, the baseline voltage for any ratio above the default maximum ratio is the voltage of the default maximum ratio.
> 
> Here is an example with my own settings, on a low-quality i7-12700K with a default maximum ratio of 50x. Blue is the 'native' VF curve.


That doesnt answer my question on if the vf point taken is the offset vf point or non offset for the 48x ratio +
hence why i did a rough graph to explain what i mean


----------



## SSBrain

On the i9-12900K, which I'm guessing you have, the maximum default VF point (VF7-11) is at a ratio of 52x.

If you set VF7-11 to 53x (+1), the 50 mV offset will be relatively to the original voltage at 52x. Therefore, at 52x the voltage difference will be greater than 50 mV. See graph below.

At VF6 (48x) the voltage difference will be 50 mV because the VF6 ratio remains the same (48x). See graph again.

In practice things may be more complicated due to implementation details in the various motherboards and other factors, but this is the theory.


----------



## Shonk

SSBrain said:


> On the i9-12900K, which I'm guessing you have, the maximum default VF point (VF7-11) is at a ratio of 52x.
> 
> If you set VF7-11 to 53x (+1), the 50 mV offset will be relatively to the original voltage at 52x. Therefore, at 52x the voltage difference will be greater than 50 mV. See graph below.
> 
> At VF6 (48x) the voltage difference will be 50 mV because the VF6 ratio remains the same (48x). See graph again.
> 
> In practice things may be more complicated due to implementation details in the various motherboards and other factors, but this is the theory.


Its a release chip with a 53x VF7-11

Oh and btw question still not answered i know at 53x it will be 50mv and 48x it will be 50mv
but i asked about 49-52 maybe look again at the graph i did


----------



## penguin1717

Hi all. I have 12900ks and z690 tuf gaming MB which doesn't have acces to SP rating. By using method of determining VID via HwInfo I got these values:









I got these values by setting P cores to All core ratio of 55x, disabling E cores, setting max cache ratio to 8x, disabling TVB optimizations, disabling C states, setting LLC to level 1 (Asus), and setting AC loadline to 0.01. DC loadline is set to auto so it matches LLC level.

Can anyone with acces to SP ratings check voltages in BIOS via extreme tweaker and check them this way in Hwinfo I described so we can know if this is correct method of checking VID on boards without SP ratings? I would be very grateful and I'm sure it would help many others in simillar situation.

Thank you in advance.


----------



## fat4l

guys, not sure who it was but there was a person with dual MORA in here. Anyone knows who ? I'm thinking of doing the same, put them in parallel ....but how to join them together ?


----------



## penguin1717

fat4l said:


> guys, not sure who it was but there was a person with dual MORA in here. Anyone knows who ? I'm thinking of doing the same, put them in parallel ....but how to join them together ?


Hey fat4l I see you have 12900ks and ROG board. Could you test the VID as I described in previous post? It will take 10 minutes of your time and you would really help me and others with boards without SP rating.


----------



## fat4l

I can't atm as my system is still disassembled xD


----------



## penguin1717

fat4l said:


> I can't atm as my system is still disassembled xD


Ok thanks anyway. Can anyone other do the test? It's only 10 minutes of your time and it would help me/us a lot.


----------



## Gadfly

DSHG87 said:


> Yes, stock settings. Under full load like Cinebench Vcore is between ~1.26 and 1.34V (4.9-5.2GHz allcore)
> 
> SoTTR ~1.38 - 1.44V, GTA IV ~1.42 - 1.46V.
> 
> AMD said, up to 1.5V is "by design" for Ryzen 5000. Why cant Intel say what Voltages (range) is normal and safe?


If it is stock, it is normal and safe.


----------



## Gadfly

penguin1717 said:


> Ok thanks anyway. Can anyone other do the test? It's only 10 minutes of your time and it would help me/us a lot.


My KS; SP 93 (103 p-core, 77 e-core) is 1.484 VID @ 5.5ghz. So that should be pretty close.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Hey guys, currently on KP so dont know the sp but my chip do 5.4ghz r20 and downclock to 5.3ghz for y cruncher and linx needs 1.35v. What is the sp u guys think it is? Thanks.


----------



## z390e

penguin1717 said:


> Ok thanks anyway. Can anyone other do the test? It's only 10 minutes of your time and it would help me/us a lot.











ADL Binning Mew 2022 Update


Info 2022 Update Motherboard: Maximus Z690 Hero BIOS 1403 RAM: 2x16GB Corsair 5600 Data collected by Bullshooter, Sergmann, DaGunzi and quiekMew thanks to gunzi for entering the 2022 numbers from paper :) For 2021: Motherboard: Maximus Z690 Hero BIOS 0803 RAM: 1x16GB Micron ES Data collected by ...




docs.google.com





at the bottom of that spreadsheet he lists a ton of bin info just click which CPU you want to see them for, not sure if you can cross-reference them to get them aligned with your non-SP board. Let me know if it does


----------



## penguin1717

First of all thank you guys for your inputs. 

I would still like that someone goes into BIOS and take a screenshot of vid voltages in extreme tweaker, AI tuner and check them this way I described. This takes only 10 minutes of your time and a lot of us would have proof if this is a correct method of doing this. This would answer a few questions like is setting DC loadline to Auto rather than setting it to 0.01 correct (I think it is because if DC loadline doesen't match LLC level VID is missreported). Also other question is why my VIDs are so unifrom? I know some of you guys can do this and this is not much work (10 minutes top).

Please consider doing this in the name of science.


----------



## SSBrain

Why not do it via BIOS-reported voltages? You can selectively disable P-cores so that you can get the VID of one core at a time, using the same procedure; it won't take that long if you're only doing it at the maximum ratio.


----------



## penguin1717

SSBrain said:


> Why not do it via BIOS-reported voltages? You can selectively disable P-cores so that you can get the VID of one core at a time, using the same procedure; it won't take that long if you're only doing it at the maximum ratio.


I will do that later in the day but I'm still not sure which is the correct way regarding DC loadline. If setting it to Auto is vorrect or setting it to 0.01.

I'll test it later in the day and post results. Maybe it won't make a difference.


----------



## SSBrain

DC loadline should normally have no effect on the voltages in BIOS, since it's typically showing _measured_ voltages instead of reported ones. It might slightly differ from the actual internal core VID, reading somewhat higher especially with socket sense, but such difference will be low during idle conditions. 

If you want to read reported VIDs In the OS via HWinfo, then DC loadline needs to be precisely set according to the LLC setting used, which is not always easy to accomplish. I don't think Auto will do a good job with that.


----------



## penguin1717

OK. I'll try that later today when I'm free and post here results. Ty for your reply.


----------



## SSBrain

Note that using the highest LLC setting available (i.e. the less droopy one) should in principle make things easier as it is often intended to configure a VRM loadline impedance of 0.01 Ohm, minimizing the effect of the VRM on load voltages. This means that AC and DC loadline could then be both set to 0.01 Ohm. However, even so you might still see a small difference between Vcore and VID in idle in the OS via HWinfo.

By doing so I observed a 5 mV difference between Vcore and VID in idle at 5 Ghz (maximum default ratio for the 12700K) on my configuration in idle in Windows. All P-cores seemed to have the same VID in idle, unlike after enabling them one by one and looking at the voltage in BIOS. C-states were disabled, TVB optimization disabled, AVX Guardband set to 0, Ring to 8x and E-cores disabled, voltage mode set to Advanced Offsets with all offsets set to 0, Windows power plan set to high performance.

Following this, I think it's faster to simply look at voltages in BIOS.


----------



## penguin1717

Thank you for your reply. I'll try that later in the day and post results.


----------



## owikh84

12900KS Batch V150J404
SP90
P-core 96
E-core 80
Maximus Z690 HERO | BIOS 1403

















12900KS Batch V150J471
SP87
P-core 97
E-core 68
Maximus Z690 HERO | BIOS 1403


----------



## SSBrain

One thing I don't understand in these ASUS ROG UEFI BIOS screenshots is why the voltage for the highest VID is different in the "Extreme Tweaker\V/F Point Offset" screen compared to the "Extreme Tweaker\AI Features" screen despite the voltage offset being 0. Is it factoring TVB voltage optimizations or other voltage corrections?


----------



## Dinnzy

What do you guys think about this copper ihs contact with lg1700 velocity 2? Just delided my ks and want to improve from my last attempt, I’m no expert however that contact and spread pattern seems awful? Should I just go liquid metal also on the IHS? Edit* very off center actually if you look at the underside of the ihs.


----------



## penguin1717

Hi guy. I tested all my cores in BIOS using method suggested by SSBrain and I got these values.at 55X:
P0* 1,492 *
P1* 1,483 (maybe little lower)*
P2 *1,456*
P3* 1,456 (maybe little higher)*
P4* 1,483*
P5* 1,483 (maybe little lower)*
P6*1,492 (maybe little lower)*
P7* 1,492*

It is important to note that BIOS can only show values off about 9mv so if it is value between 1,492 and 1,483 it will constantly shift between these values. I think this may indicate that the fused VID is let's say 1,488 which should be in line with HwInfo readings. According to this I speculate that my P-core SP rating is in 97-99 range. so values in HwInfo are not that different from values I got via this method so if you want to read VID values in OS via HwInfo you should set DC loadline to match your LLC level.

Thank you SSbrain for your time and valuable info and I hope this will be of use for someone in the future.


----------



## SSBrain

@penguin1717: from the previously posted big list of 12900KS scores the relationship between P-cores score and the average of worst and best VID (in mV) is:



Code:


-0.1749492250731x + 356.048765271046

Therefore,

(1492 + 1456) / 2 = 1474 mV
P-score = -1474 * 0.1749492250731 + 356.048765271046 = *98.2*


----------



## fat4l

Ok my system is finally assembled.

I have to tell you this delid + liquid metal+ supercool direct ide is insane.
I do R20 pass 5.5G, all cores enabled, 1.355V LLC6 bios, 1.314V load socket sense which is about 1.255V die sense.
Temps = Max core 67C, min core 59C, water temp 28C.

Really recommend it ! 
(I'm selling the delid tool on ebay UK if anyone is interested from UK)

BTW how much should I be pushing max for 5.6G? I tried 1.45V bios LLC6 and that freezed during R20 













Temps breakdown:


----------



## snakeeyes111

274W 5.5ghz all cores enable in r20 .

Golden sample for watercooling. My reach over 300 with 5.3 🤣


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

*fat4l*

The temps are great, but the score is not @5.5Ghz.

Mine @5.1Ghz:


----------



## fat4l

MrTOOSHORT said:


> *fat4l*
> 
> The temps are great, but the score is not @5.5Ghz.
> 
> Mine @5.1Ghz:
> 
> View attachment 2560120


It varies..on task etc...that was just a quick run


----------



## snakeeyes111

Then show a 5.5 score with running hwinfo 😉.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

fat4l said:


> It varies..on task etc...that was just a quick run


Tried 4.3 e core and 4.5 ring. That score seem a little bit low for 5.5.


----------



## CENS

Score is way too low, same as power consumption. Something is throttling.


----------



## SSBrain

Possibly CEP (Current Excursion Protection) was left enabled. It transparently throttles the CPU when on Adaptive Voltage mode the configured voltage is too low, promoting system stability. This causes abnormally low power consumption and low performance, and it's difficult to tell otherwise that this sort of throttling is acting.


----------



## fat4l

Yeah will do that once I'm back home. At work atm. I will kill all unnecessary apps too. Also my mems are just ar XMP and that's it...

Now..we gotta work on 5.6G  max volts we can really use?


----------



## fat4l

SSBrain said:


> Possibly CEP (Current Excursion Protection) was left enabled. It transparently throttles the CPU when on Adaptive Voltage mode the configured voltage is too low, promoting system stability. This causes abnormally low power consumption and low performance, and it's difficult to tell otherwise that this sort of throttling is acting.


Where do I turn this off? I'm on asus strix board .I selected to remove all limits ... hmmmm


----------



## Arni90

I would expect a score above 12000 or so at 5.5 GHz, I barely broke 12K at 5.46/4.35


----------



## SSBrain

fat4l said:


> Where do I turn this off? I'm on asus strix board .I selected to remove all limits ... hmmmm


It should be "IA CEP Enable" under "Extreme Tweaker". I don't have one of these boards to personally check. This is a screenshot from the Internet.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

I believe 5.4ghz /4.3 e core 4.5 ring hit 11k9 r20 at 350w.


----------



## sugi0lover

fat4l said:


> Yeah will do that once I'm back home. At work atm. I will kill all unnecessary apps too. Also my mems are just ar XMP and that's it...
> 
> Now..we gotta work on 5.6G  max volts we can really use?


When can I get my direct die? 


sugi0lover said:


> This is the max OC I can do at the moment before direct die kit.
> 
> P56/E44/C46 at max water temp 25C.
> 10 Min long Cine got my score lower than normal score of 32,400+
> I will compare this result with direct die when I have it.
> 
> [OC setup - CineR23 10min pass]
> ○ CPU : 12900K (SP103, P115, E79) / all cores (P 5.6G , E 4.4G, Cache 4.6G)
> ○ Ram : KLEVV Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 7200Mhz-30-41-40-28-305-2T
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0090)
> ○ Voltages (actual under load) : Vcore 1.350v / VDD 1.665v / VDDQ 1.590v / VDDQ TX 1.54 / MC 1.314v / SA 1.136v
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM)
> View attachment 2559142
> 
> 
> [Edit : Normal Cine Score without running hwinfo]
> View attachment 2559228
> 
> 
> 
> [You can check real time voltages, temps and etc]


----------



## fat4l

SSBrain said:


> It should be "IA CEP Enable" under "Extreme Tweaker". I don't have one of these boards to personally check. This is a screenshot from the Internet.
> 
> View attachment 2560133


Will try that tomorrow 


Do you all test it like that..with that thingy disabled?


----------



## fat4l

sugi0lover said:


> When can I get my direct die?


Hmmm not sure haha. He is out of stock.
Also he didn't send me any cable to connect rgb haha. He is sending it to me now


----------



## Dinnzy

Finally did it, need to play with the voltage more to lower temps. Definitely need to he direct die kit. 5.5 was gaming stable on warzone, never thought I’d see the day.


----------



## vannak

Has anyone (else) tried to sand their CPU convex-ish to compensate for the stock 1700 bracket bend? Basically I just lapped it, and then sanded off the Top, Left, and Bottom edges. I've gone through 4 rounds of sanding, applying cooler, running for a day, and repeat. Asus mobo thinks I've done a god job. I'm getting a tube of some nice paste in today so I'll probably be going in for round 5 this afternoon. Are there any resources or posts by people going into this kind of thing, or guides? I've just been kind of winging this so far.


----------



## SSBrain

If you're into risky/extreme solutions, another one to completely avoid ILM-caused bending could be mounting the cooler on the CPU without any ILM at all, relying only on cooler pressure to secure the CPU on the socket. A major disadvantage however is that it the CPU will certainly get stuck on the cooler after removing it again (due to suction cup effect by the thermal paste) and you will have to be very careful not to damage socket contact pins in the process. It might also possibly only work well (safely) with the CPU in horizontal position.

I don't know if anybody has tried this yet.


----------



## vannak

SSBrain said:


> If you're into risky/extreme solutions, another one to completely avoid ILM-caused bending could be mounting the cooler on the CPU without any ILM at all, relying only on cooler pressure to secure the CPU on the socket. A major disadvantage however is that it the CPU will certainly get stuck on the cooler after removing it again (due to suction cup effect by the thermal paste) and you will have to be very careful not to damage socket contact pins in the process. It might also possibly only work well (safely) with the CPU in horizontal position.
> 
> I don't know if anybody has tried this yet.


From what I've seen on delidding videos, there's some capacitors or similar under the IHS that make that a bit tough to workout unless you machine the cold plate down a bit, so that's probably a bit much for me. Might work with a CPU water block cut for that in a custom water loop though. Right now my plan is to get one of those aftermarket non-lever brackets I've seen floating around, get a fresh copper IHS, and liquid metal the die and cooler. I think that sounds pretty optimal for a build without a custom water loop.

BTW thanks a lot for those 12700k vf curves a few pages back!


----------



## SSBrain

For clarity, I was not referring to the heat spreader (IHS / Integrated Heat Spreader) on the CPU itself, but the mounting frame (ILM / Integrated Loading Mechanism) on the motherboard. It is possible to remove the latter entirely without affecting cooler compatibility, although I wouldn't recommend it due to the issues I mentioned (and possibly others I haven't thought about yet).


----------



## 050

I played around and tested some things and it looks like 1.225v-1.234v Vcore under load at llc3 (also previously tested at llc2) is nice and stable for my chip at 5.2ghz all core in r23 and that has the advantage of running at a nice cool 80c - I think that's a decent daily driver configuration. sp-p of 106 but not delided or anything, just a custom liquid loop. I then have TVB all configured so it generally runs 5.4-5.6 on lighter loads, up to a peak of 5.8ghz. I have seen effective clock rates on the cores up to 5600 Mhz so far, but not higher yet. What sorts of _effective_ clock rates are you guys seeing compared to the maximum turbo? It seems like it'd just take a while to sample at the right time to catch extra high effective clocks.
I am getting 28686 all core at 5.2ghz (e cores 4 at 4.2 and 4 at 4.1, haven't really tuned these yet) and 2098 single core in r23, at default windows priority. If I set it to high priority I get 29468 mc at 5.2ghz and 2114 sc score.


----------



## vannak

Ah alright that makes sense. This seems like a decent idea but I'd be worried about those delicate pins and the jostling my cooler can do when loosening the bracket. I think at minimum I'd want some nvme style securing mechanism, just something to rotate over the corners of the CPU. ATM, I generally unlatch the tension arm once the CPU cooler is installed and vertical.


----------



## jomama22

vannak said:


> Has anyone (else) tried to sand their CPU convex-ish to compensate for the stock 1700 bracket bend? Basically I just lapped it, and then sanded off the Top, Left, and Bottom edges. I've gone through 4 rounds of sanding, applying cooler, running for a day, and repeat. Asus mobo thinks I've done a god job. I'm getting a tube of some nice paste in today so I'll probably be going in for round 5 this afternoon. Are there any resources or posts by people going into this kind of thing, or guides? I've just been kind of winging this so far.


Debauer's new bracket includes a tool to do this so that the ihs is sanded down to be flat with respect to however the ihs is shaped in the motherboard.


----------



## Dinnzy

Is 1.298 load voltage r20, 5.4, 4.2 ecore 4.2 pretty good ;p? Hottest core 86. Just curious what Sp that might translate to. Can’t pass R23 at this voltage though ;p that is till I get my “supercomputer” block


----------



## sugi0lover

I saw 7 users' reviews about 12th Gen bending preventive frame, all cheap ThermalRight one.
The temp got lowered around 4C ~15C individually. 15C lowered temp result is kind hard to believe, but he showed comparing captue shots. 
No one has negative effect yet.

Another post said that ihs of recent barch 12900KS got thicker. It seems like Intel did something.
Left : early batch 12900KS, Right : recent batch 12900KS


----------



## 050

sugi0lover said:


> Another post said that ihs of recent barch 12900KS got thicker. It seems like Intel did something.


Interesting, I wonder if the extra thermal mass on the newer batch ihs will benefit transient temp spikes, or if the thinner ihs is better for overall heat dissipation due to a shorter thermal path (provided other thin-ihs issues don't offset that or are mitigated).


----------



## sugi0lover

050 said:


> Interesting, I wonder if the extra thermal mass on the newer batch ihs will benefit transient temp spikes, or if the thinner ihs is better for overall heat dissipation due to a shorter thermal path (provided other thin-ihs issues don't offset that or are mitigated).


He said that idle temp of thicker ihs 12900KS is 3~4C higher. no mention about full load temp and I asked about the full load temp at the same power consumption and I will let you know if answered.


----------



## EEE-RAY

If I run auto voltages does the mobo follow intel fail safe fused voltages?

I am running my CPU at 5 ghz all core and auto voltage. I've been lately getting crashes in multiple games during high load moments (mainly when loading stuff).

I tested P95 and sure enough it crashes catastrophically (either blue screen or just hard restart).
Under small FFTs AVX my die-sense vcore is about 1.084-1.101. Blender is about 1.137.
Are these voltages about right for a 12900KS at 5GHZ?

If so does this mean I have an absolute turd of a chip that is unstable at intel's stock VF curve?

EDIT: LLC is 4 and power consumption is 260watts under P95. I've tested a manual voltage for 5.2Ghz all core and I can pass CR23 at 1.181V load die sense (1.385V set in bios/LLC4). I can't test P95 at 5.2 ghz because I instantly overheat.


----------



## SSBrain

EEE-RAY said:


> If I run auto voltages does the mobo follow intel fail safe fused voltages?


I don't think this is the case, since in the end voltages still largely depend on your motherboard. It could be that default settings might not be correcting voltages up enough for the droop under load. I had this issue on a previous B560 Gigabyte motherboard I owned for both a relatively bad i7-11700K and a moderately good i9-11900.


----------



## EEE-RAY

Yeah fair enough that makes sense. Very odd though I've always thought the default V/F curve would be very conservative. In the past I've always been able to undervolt a bit from the default VF curve. I've never actually had to put a positive offset to run a CPU within in its specs. In run an apex board.


----------



## SSBrain

The default VF curve can be considered a fail-safe baseline. However, under load actual voltages may end up being lower than such baseline depending on motherboard settings, and the CPU might end up being unstable as a result—more likely so if you're running on air cooling.

You shouldn't have to add a global positive voltage offset. Instead of a positive voltage offset you could increase the AC Loadline parameter on your motherboard. That is the current (i.e. load) -based voltage correction I mentioned earlier which is usually set at the discretion of motherboard manufacturers. It only works with Auto voltages.

If I recall correctly, assuming you mean you have an ASUS z690 Apex board, on ASUS there are presets for this setting under the "SVID Behavior" option. Or, you can set it more directly in another screen. The screenshots below are for older motherboards but I think the menus have remained more or less the same.


----------



## fat4l

Guys can it be that 1 cpu is showing 2 very different SP numbers in 2 different motherboards?


----------



## EEE-RAY

SSBrain said:


> The default VF curve can be considered a fail-safe baseline....


Wow! I've always thought that motherboard auto VID curve reflected intels fail safe.

Just to clarify (please ELI5!), SVID behavior is the motherboard's own VID setting, note intels.
And LLC is completely separate and reflects how aggressively the board defends the VID?

I notice that for SVID have the options of Auto/typical/worst/intel fail safe/trained
Auto appears = trained and gives 1.09V under load - crash
Intel fail safe appears = worst and gives nearly +100mv on top of auto - power draw hits 300W!
Typical gives a vcore under load of about 1.14

Which of these best reflects the default V/F intel programmed into the chip? Do intel program V/F curves based on chip quality or does is it a flat curve that they give to every chip?

TL : DR are my crashes due to my board undercooking my auto vcore based on its estimation of my chips quality?


----------



## SSBrain

EEE-RAY said:


> TL : DR are my crashes due to my board undercooking my auto vcore based on its estimation of my chips quality?


Possibly, but it's just a hypothesis.



EEE-RAY said:


> Just to clarify (please ELI5!), SVID behavior is the motherboard's own VID setting, note intels. And LLC is completely separate and reflects how aggressively the board defends the VID?


The baseline voltage used by the motherboard is still the built-in VF curve. Actual load voltages however will change from it due to various factors:


With load, voltage _decreases_ proportionally to current, depending on the LLC setting. The default LLC should have an impedance of 1.1 mOhm, that is, it causes voltage to _decrease_ by 110 mV for every 100 A of current into the CPU.
The SVID behavior setting regulates how much voltage should _increase_ with load, counterbalancing the droopiness of the LLC. The "best-case scenario" setting does not correct for load at all, while the "Intel's Failsafe" setting should add 110 mV for every 100A of current into the CPU, at least on 8 P-core processors. Alternatively, this setting can be more directly configured through the AC Loadline setting as I mentioned earlier.
Voltages may be further corrected with additional offsets on top of this load-based correction (which you tried earlier).
The "TVB Optimization" setting can correct voltage _down_ with temperature (lower temperatures = lower voltages).
The "AVX Guardband voltage" setting will correct voltage _up_ if AVX instructions are executed.

Thus, after all these corrections, the final voltage may differ from the CPU-fused VF curve. Keep in mind that SVID behavior settings have an effect only for Adaptive voltages (the "Auto" voltage setting should set these by default).



EEE-RAY said:


> Which of these best reflects the default V/F intel programmed into the chip? Do intel program V/F curves based on chip quality or does is it a flat curve that they give to every chip?


Intel does program VF curves depending on chip quality. They are not flat voltages, but different voltage points depending on frequency. Every core also has its own VF curve.

In theory, by setting Adaptive voltage with Auto voltage target, zero voltage offset, setting AVX Guardband voltage to 0, TVB Optimization disabled, and setting the LLC and IA AC Loadline (indirectly configured with the "SVID Behavior" setting on ASUS) to the same impedance (or _slope_), you could have actual load voltages very close to the fused VF-curve, but they might be too high for many users.

But you can find a more complete explanation of these topics in the opening post of this thread here:








ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...


Disclaimer ! These settings and methods are outside Intel's specifications, just like any other overclocking method. ---------------------------------------------------- For Z790/13900K click here Introduction: In a world increasingly concerned with natural resources, the watchword is...




www.overclock.net


----------



## EEE-RAY

Many thanks for that writeup.
That seems very complicated.

I remember once upon a time overclocking was as simple as setting 1.3V and increasing FSB to 400Mhz and boom, a 50% OC on q6600 =/

(yes I am aware those times are never coming back)


----------



## SSBrain

You can still use a high-ish LLC setting, setting fixed/overridden voltages and call it a day like many prefer doing, although large overclocks aren't really possible anymore.

However, overall better efficiency is achieved by using adaptive voltages, which are the Intel default. In that case it makes sense to learn how they work, also to debug issues where default settings by the motherboard may not be appropriate, like you probably observed.

In alternative, enabling CEP (Current Excursion Protection) should increase stability at the cost of performance under high load scenarios. I think I recall reading that it's disabled by default on ASUS motherboards. Other motherboards have it enabled by default.


----------



## EEE-RAY

I completely agree, I need to really dig deep and learn it all works.

I just mentally haven't moved away from the days when defaults on any chip/board combo had huge amounts of headroom. Components these days running so close to the edge out of the box was something I was conceptually aware of but didn't really realise until now.

Good learning process.


----------



## fat4l

I tried disabling CEP ... makes no difference. Still not pulling over 300w...
Oced ecores to 4.3g . 11800 R20. What else could it be or what scores we should have in R20 5.5g?


----------



## SSBrain

In HWInfo, open the drop-down list under "IA Limit Reasons" and see if there's anything that activates ("Yes") while you're benchmarking.


----------



## sugi0lover

fat4l said:


> I tried disabling CEP ... makes no difference. Still not pulling over 300w...
> Oced ecores to 4.3g . 11800 R20. What else could it be or what scores we should have in R20 5.5g?


For P 5.5G, E 4.3G, R20 score should be around 12100 pts.


----------



## fat4l

sugi0lover said:


> For P 5.5G, E 4.3G, R20 score should be around 12100 pts.
> View attachment 2560240
> 
> 
> View attachment 2560241


Well that us crazy mem settings haha 7200mhz cl30..mine is 6200mhz cl36 all xmp untouched 

May be the case?


----------



## fat4l

SSBrain said:


> In HWInfo, open the drop-down list under "IA Limit Reasons" and see if there's anything that activates ("Yes") while you're benchmarking.
> 
> View attachment 2560238


Will have a look into it but I think its all NO the whole time afaik. I'm pulling about 280W ...maybe its the motherboard? It's just strix mini itx


----------



## SSBrain

Another possibility is simply that you haven't configured the DC Loadline setting yet, which will make reported Core VIDs differ from Vcore under load (while benchmarking). They might for example show lower values than Vcore. If this is the case, power measurements will be incorrect (lower).

EDIT: this shouldn't normally affect performance, however.


----------



## sugi0lover

fat4l said:


> Well that us crazy mem settings haha 7200mhz cl30..mine is 6200mhz cl36 all xmp untouched
> 
> May be the case?


RAM OC barely impact Cine Score, but Ram OC makes CPU require higher voltage.
Seems like there is bottleneck somewhere. hope you find the solution soon~


----------



## jomama22

sugi0lover said:


> I saw 7 users' reviews about 12th Gen bending preventive frame, all cheap ThermalRight one.
> The temp got lowered around 4C ~15C individually. 15C lowered temp result is kind hard to believe, but he showed comparing captue shots.
> No one has negative effect yet.
> 
> Another post said that ihs of recent barch 12900KS got thicker. It seems like Intel did something.
> Left : early batch 12900KS, Right : recent batch 12900KS
> View attachment 2560220
> 
> 
> View attachment 2560221


It's just a visual thing as some KS' come with the outer edge bezelled. You can see the left has the bezel while the right does not. Looking in person (have one of each as well) and they are the same height.


----------



## z390e

I looked over the list of binning that Bullshooter, Sergmann DaGunzi and quiekMew and found some interesting info for their 12900KS and 12900k









ADL Binning Mew 2022 Update


Info 2022 Update Motherboard: Maximus Z690 Hero BIOS 1403 RAM: 2x16GB Corsair 5600 Data collected by Bullshooter, Sergmann, DaGunzi and quiekMew thanks to gunzi for entering the 2022 numbers from paper :) For 2021: Motherboard: Maximus Z690 Hero BIOS 0803 RAM: 1x16GB Micron ES Data collected by ...




docs.google.com





12900KS
Lowest SP 84
Lowest P-Core SP 88
Lowest E-Core SP 65

Highest SP 99
Highest P-Core 106
Highest E-Core 87

The one 12900KS CPU with 99 SP 106 P-core and 87 e -core has the highest scores for both P and E of the ~175 cpus they binned.

12900K
Lowest SP 76
Lowest P-Core SP 83
Lowest E-Core SP 56

Highest SP 96
Highest P-Core 107
Highest E-Core 78

Interesting to see that the KS has much better e-cores and only somewhat better p-cores.


----------



## 050

Somewhat makes intuitive sense if the p-cores have fairly limited room for improvement vs the e-cores having somewhat more room for improvement, running at lower clocks and such. Interesting though!


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

z390e said:


> I looked over the list of binning that Bullshooter, Sergmann DaGunzi and quiekMew and found some interesting info for their 12900KS and 12900k
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ADL Binning Mew 2022 Update
> 
> 
> Info 2022 Update Motherboard: Maximus Z690 Hero BIOS 1403 RAM: 2x16GB Corsair 5600 Data collected by Bullshooter, Sergmann, DaGunzi and quiekMew thanks to gunzi for entering the 2022 numbers from paper :) For 2021: Motherboard: Maximus Z690 Hero BIOS 0803 RAM: 1x16GB Micron ES Data collected by ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> docs.google.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 12900KS
> Lowest SP 84
> Lowest P-Core SP 88
> Lowest E-Core SP 65
> 
> Highest SP 99
> Highest P-Core 106
> Highest E-Core 87
> 
> The one 12900KS CPU with 99 SP 106 P-core and 87 e -core has the highest scores for both P and E of the ~175 cpus they binned.
> 
> 12900K
> Lowest SP 76
> Lowest P-Core SP 83
> Lowest E-Core SP 56
> 
> Highest SP 96
> Highest P-Core 107
> Highest E-Core 78
> 
> Interesting to see that the KS has much better e-cores and only somewhat better p-cores.


12900K and 12900KS p cores cannot be directly compared. The 12900KS has higher boost frequencies and the vid table is adjusted to account for that. The general rule of thumb was to add about 8-10 points on to the p core values of the KS to account for this. So a 100 p core sp rating on a KS is somewhere in the neighborhood of a 108 p core 12900K.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

sugi0lover said:


> For P 5.5G, E 4.3G, R20 score should be around 12100 pts.
> View attachment 2560240
> 
> 
> View attachment 2560241


Can confirm 12100+ pts on R20 with 5.5 p cores and 4.3 e cores all day long. 11800ish is closer to 5.3/4.3 I would expect. I can test it once my board gets back from RMA.


----------



## fat4l

Hmmm interesting that. How much windows can affect it? It's not any bench windows or anything like that. Win 11


----------



## dragn09

i had 1k more score couple days ago after closing everything including services like aquasuite


----------



## Luggage

dragn09 said:


> i had 1k more score couple days ago after closing everything including services like aquasuite


Aquasuite is brilliant but quite the hog on cpu, gpu and ram latency.


----------



## nickolp1974

Dinnzy said:


> What do you guys think about this copper ihs contact with lg1700 velocity 2? Just delided my ks and want to improve from my last attempt, I’m no expert however that contact and spread pattern seems awful? Should I just go liquid metal also on the IHS? Edit* very off center actually if you look at the underside of the ihs.
> View attachment 2560043
> 
> View attachment 2560042
> View attachment 2560044


your IHS is upside down


----------



## z390e

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> 12900K and 12900KS p cores cannot be directly compared. The 12900KS has higher boost frequencies and the vid table is adjusted to account for that. The general rule of thumb was to add about 8-10 points on to the p core values of the KS to account for this. So a 100 p core sp rating on a KS is somewhere in the neighborhood of a 108 p core 12900K.


Agreed 100% they arent the same and it has been beaten to death on these boards. 

Just to point out, I wasn't comparing them, I was pointing out the range and variances in their binning. For example the difference between top P and top E on KS is 20 points and on the K it is 30 points. Or that the range of scores on K is 20 vs KS at 15 showing even tighter binning. No comparison, just interesting to see some of the details from some of the only public binning data available. 

Comparing those binned CPUs vs one another like that P106 KS and that P107K would be really interesting but I haven't seen a single site or user posting that type of detailed analysis.


----------



## z390e

dragn09 said:


> i had 1k more score couple days ago after closing everything including services like aquasuite


if you watch the video Luumi posted of one of his top scores you can he is using task manager to manage running processes, even looks like he is turning off explorer @ 0:40. For top scores I'd imagine you want as bare bones install as possible, telemetry turned off etc etc


----------



## sugi0lover

z390e said:


> Agreed 100% they arent the same and it has been beaten to death on these boards.
> 
> Just to point out, I wasn't comparing them, I was pointing out the range and variances in their binning. For example the difference between top P and top E on KS is 20 points and on the K it is 30 points. Or that the range of scores on K is 20 vs KS at 15 showing even tighter binning. No comparison, just interesting to see some of the details from some of the only public binning data available.
> 
> Comparing those binned CPUs vs one another like that P106 KS and that P107K would be really interesting but I haven't seen a single site or user posting that type of detailed analysis.


I posted this before comparing P115 K vs P108 KS.
He did some other tests too under the same system and P115 K needed 0.04v lower than P108 KS, so I bought P115 K from him.


sugi0lover said:


> My friend has 12900K (SP103), 12900KS (SP96, 95) and this is the comparison with CineR23 10 min.
> 
> 
> 12900KS SP95 (P105 E76)
> P53 E42 R44 1.26v, Max Temp 79C
> View attachment 2555268
> 
> 
> 
> 12900KS SP96 (P108 E72)
> P53 E42 R44 1.25v, Max Temp 77C
> View attachment 2555269
> 
> 
> 
> 12900K SP103 (P115 E79)
> P53 E42 R44 1.21v, Max Temp 74C
> View attachment 2555270


----------



## Ichirou

KS vs K comparison is quite simple: E-cores are overall better, and P-cores are more likely to be better, especially compared to recent K batches.
Other factors are still pretty much a hit or miss, like DDR4/DDR5 IMC.

KF is the chip to go with if your goal is budget, since it seems to have slightly better binning than the K. The IMC seems to be overall better as well.
Maybe the good K chips are being reserved for the KSes. Or maybe not. Only Intel knows.

Or just wait for Raptor Lake.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

My direct die kit arrived. I'll be trying it soon.


----------



## chentj1988

hi there. I bought a 12900k from my friend. He was using Z690 formula, same as me. After I install his cpu into my Z690 Formula, I have different VID value as his. The best core arrangement also different, but the SP are the same. Anyone has idea why is this happening? Thanks I’m advance!


----------



## SSBrain

I don't have an Asus motherboard but in some of the 'washer mod' tests made in the past I have occasionally observed small differences (a few mV) in load voltages after reseating the CPU into the motherboard socket. I wonder if core VIDs are also affected to some extent by socket impedance and so on.


----------



## chentj1988

SSBrain said:


> I don't have an Asus motherboard but in some of the 'washer mod' tests made in the past I have occasionally observed small differences (a few mV) in load voltages after reseating the CPU into the motherboard socket. I wonder if core VIDs are also affected to some extent by socket impedance and so on.


Thanks for your quick reply. Could it be my psu problem? And before this I had problem with my wall plug. My wall plug shares same cable with my Aircond, one day I burnt my Circuit Breaker at main switch, the technician changed to bigger Ampere Circuit Breaker. Could it be not enough electric supplied into my system?

so my best bet is to reseat my CPU?


----------



## fat4l

SSBrain said:


> In HWInfo, open the drop-down list under "IA Limit Reasons" and see if there's anything that activates ("Yes") while you're benchmarking.
> 
> View attachment 2560238


Hi mate, just had a look. and its YES.
Any idea how to fix that ?


here:


----------



## SSBrain

chentj1988 said:


> Thanks for your quick reply. Could it be my psu problem?


I don't think it's related. The power that goes into the CPU when the Core VIDs are retrieved is minimal.



> so my best bet is to reseat my CPU?


It's just a possible idea and I don't know if others have observed the same phenomenon. To potentially avoid too much hassle for nothing perhaps wait if others can confirm this too.



fat4l said:


> Hi mate, just had a look. and its YES.
> Any idea how to fix that ?


Thermal Velocity Boost (TVB)—assuming that is what enables in your case (you aren't showing the entire list of limit reasons)—decreases core frequency if core temperature exceeds a certain threshold, which might not happen right away when benchmarking with water cooling. The obvious solution for preventing this behavior then is disabling TVB in BIOS, but then stability might be affected.


----------



## david12900k

Thermal Grizzly Alder Lake Contact Frame shipped from overclockers.uk. Hoping the few degrees difference will help me stabilize 5.5 all core


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

david12900k said:


> Thermal Grizzly Alder Lake Contact Frame shipped from overclockers.uk. Hoping the few degrees difference will help me stabilize 5.5 all core


I wonder if this would work with the direct die kit from Supercool. Would allow to take the entire thing off without having to drain.


----------



## Gadfly

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I wonder if this would work with the direct die kit from Supercool. Would allow to take the entire thing off without having to drain.


It does not. 

The TG contact frame pushes down on the small lip on the outside edge of the stock IHS. It will not work with the SC direct die block, or even the aftermarket IHS kits. 

I can think of two possible solitons to be able to remove the direct die block without draining. First is if you screw down the stock CPU retention frame in a manner that allows you to release the entire stock CPU retention frame from the back of the motherboard. For example, use a smaller diameter screws that will pass though the backplate and retain them with a washer and nut on the back side of the board. That would allow you to remove the nuts and separate the stock CPU retention frame from the board with the direct die block fully assembled. My concern is that there is a lot of tension on that CPU retention frame and when you start to release CPU retention frame it is going to release that tension and could easily damage the board/CPU/Scoket; So I personally don't think it is a good idea, but it could work. 

Second, you could completely remove the stock CPU retention frame and try to use the direct die block to push the CPU into the socket, but I am not sure how well that would work; or how much the SC's 3d printed plastic LGA 1700 retention block will flex when you put it under that much tension. The SC block is designed so that the stock CPU retention frame is applying all the pressure, and the LGA 1700 block is just there for looks and to make sure the block doesn't slide around at all. It is not designed to put any contact force on the block itself like a traditional water block. In looking at it, I am pretty sure it will flex a lot, but in theory at least, it could work.

I have always been a big fan of direct die cooling, and wish Intel and AMD never started putting IHS back on CPU's from the factory. SC computer direct die block works great and all, but IMHO, using the stock CPU retention frame is a design flaw and they really should have designed a direct die CPU frame that allows the block to be removed from the CPU without draining the loop. I have been water cooling long enough to know that you never get all the water out of blocks when you drain a loop; and no matter how much you blow air though it, move it around, etc. there will always be water left in the block, and it is going to spill when you take that block apart.


----------



## Ichirou

Welcome to the world of getting hard baited into buying proprietary cooling solutions. Monopolies are hated in the world for a reason.
Supercool is the first to commercialize direct die for Z690, so they are profiting hard.

Also, invest in QDCs.


----------



## bscool

chentj1988 said:


> hi there. I bought a 12900k from my friend. He was using Z690 formula, same as me. After I install his cpu into my Z690 Formula, I have different VID value as his. The best core arrangement also different, but the SP are the same. Anyone has idea why is this happening? Thanks I’m advance!
> View attachment 2560382
> 
> View attachment 2560381


Are you using the same bios versions? That can change the VID tables.

And even if you are using the same bios is can be different if you flash from a newer bios back to an old one. On Strix d4 as an example I need to flash 0223, 707 then 901 if I flashed one of the newer bios versions and want to go back to bios 901 and have VID table like it was originally.

Basically I would not worry about them being different. If it works and is stable that is what matters.


----------



## chentj1988

bscool said:


> Did either of you update or change bios versions? That can change the VID tables.











I flash to 0711 & 0803 and this is what I got. The ranking arrangement is different. My core 6 used to be 2nd best, in older bios it’s 2nd worse. And the P-Core SP is different with the seller too but the vid value is the same. 
Anyway it does not really affect much in my OC. I got 29k R23 with 5.2ghz all core manual 1.26v llc6 in both bios. I think I should just ignore it.


----------



## bscool

chentj1988 said:


> View attachment 2560394
> 
> I flash to 0711 & 0803 and this is what I got. The ranking arrangement is different. My core 6 used to be 2nd best, in older bios it’s 2nd worse. And the P-Core SP is different with the seller too but the vid value is the same.
> Anyway it does not really affect much in my OC. I got 29k R23 with 5.2ghz all core manual 1.26v llc6 in both bios. I think I should just ignore it.


 I edit my post above but Ill cut it here

And even if you are using the same bios is can be different if you flash from a newer bios back to an old one. On Strix d4 as an example I need to flash 0223, 707 then 901 if I flashed one of the newer bios versions and want to go back to bios 901 and have VID table like it was originally.

Basically I would not worry about them being different. If it works and is stable that is what matters.


----------



## Ichirou

chentj1988 said:


> View attachment 2560394
> 
> I flash to 0711 & 0803 and this is what I got. The ranking arrangement is different. My core 6 used to be 2nd best, in older bios it’s 2nd worse. And the P-Core SP is different with the seller too but the vid value is the same.
> Anyway it does not really affect much in my OC. I got 29k R23 with 5.2ghz all core manual 1.26v llc6 in both bios. I think I should just ignore it.


P-core SP of 112 is golden; you shouldn't hesitate to push it to 5.4-5.5 GHz. Otherwise, you are probably wasting that performance.
You could also sell it for $1,200+ USD, buy another chip, and pocket the difference as profit.
Practically any 12900 K/KF/KS will run 5.2 GHz all-core without any difficulty.


----------



## chentj1988

I’m going to try to achieve 5.4-5.5ghz once my thermalright bracket arrive. 5.3ghz all core gives me 30k r23 but at 95+C. Compare to my old 12900k SP87 (99P 63E), this pre-binned chip is 10C cooler with better performance. I might consider selling it off if the offer is good cause I’m pretty bad in OC though.


----------



## Ichirou

chentj1988 said:


> I’m going to try to achieve 5.4-5.5ghz once my thermalright bracket arrive. 5.3ghz all core gives me 30k r23 but at 95+C. Compare to my old 12900k SP87 (99P 63E), this pre-binned chip is 10C cooler with better performance. I might consider selling it off if the offer is good cause I’m pretty bad in OC though.
> View attachment 2560401


With that P-core SP, you can get at least $1,200 USD for it. I wouldn't hesitate to start selling it at $1,500 USD.
Better sooner than later, because once Raptor Lake comes out, the value will drop.


----------



## chentj1988

I will definitely let go if someone offer me $1500. I feel I’m not good enough to keep this. Do drop me a PM if anyone interested.


----------



## bscool

I think to really get the big bucks people will want to see what it actually does. Like can it run 54 or 55 for CB 23, CB20, CB15 etc. Maybe not but no way I would blind buy a cpu for that much. Big SP helps but only so much.


----------



## Ichirou

chentj1988 said:


> I will definitely let go if someone offer me $1500. I feel I’m not good enough to keep this. Do drop me a PM if anyone interested.





bscool said:


> I think to really get the big bucks people will want to see what it actually does. Like can it run 54 or 55 for CB 23, CB20, CB15 etc. Maybe not but no way I would blind buy a cpu for that much. Big SP helps but only so much.


Should be easy to pass it off on eBay for $1,500 USD, with Best Offer available and screenshots of the ASUS BIOS with the SP scores.
Even if somebody tries to chop down the price, it would only be a few hundred off. So still a huge profit.
But I don't know how accessible eBay is for @chentj1988, since he is in Malaysia. Could try local markets instead, as cash is much easier to deal with, and buyers could physically witness him booting up the PC with the SP values on the screen.
Since he is thermally limited, it'll be impossible for him to test even beyond 5.3 GHz, so raw SP values would be the primary selling point.
One thing to check, however, is whether or not it has AVX-512 support. That should be easy enough to determine, and could sway some buyers.


----------



## fat4l

SSBrain said:


> Thermal Velocity Boost (TVB)—assuming that is what enables in your case (you aren't showing the entire list of limit reasons)—decreases core frequency if core temperature exceeds a certain threshold, which might not happen right away when benchmarking with water cooling. The obvious solution for preventing this behavior then is disabling TVB in BIOS, but then stability might be affected.


Yeah I see now. I will open it up with the arrow to see. Thermal velocity boost is disabled so not sure why it's showing at all???


----------



## chentj1988

5.4ghz (1.305v) all core Manual1.31v llc8 multi core R23 but thermal throttling.  I can run Dota 2 without problem with this 5.4ghz. I set short duration to 260w but it wont help. Guess I will never get pass 5.4ghz without proper cooling. Not sure bout the potential of this CPU but i think it can go even higher if thermal is not the bottleneck of it.


----------



## chentj1988

Ichirou said:


> One thing to check, however, is whether or not it has AVX-512 support. That should be easy enough to determine, and could sway some buyers.


Yes there’s avx512 in my bios. What’s this for? 😅


----------



## Ichirou

chentj1988 said:


> Yes there’s avx512 in my bios. What’s this for? 😅


AVX-512 will show up in the BIOS even if the chip doesn't have it; you have to actually activate it and check whether or not it shows up on the PC.
You can check by running HWiNFO and looking at the Features section in the Summary page. AVX-512 will be highlighted green if it's active.
You _need_ to disable the E-cores, or AVX-512 is always disabled.

Essentially, AVX-512 allows the CPU to run much faster in a variety of different workloads when the E-cores are disabled. So more efficient P-cores.


----------



## chentj1988

Ichirou said:


> AVX-512 will show up in the BIOS even if the chip doesn't have it; you have to actually activate it and check whether or not it shows up on the PC.
> You can check by running HWiNFO and looking at the Features section in the Summary page. AVX-512 will be highlighted green if it's active.
> You _need_ to disable the E-cores, or AVX-512 is always disabled.
> 
> Essentially, AVX-512 allows the CPU to run much faster in a variety of different workloads when the E-cores are disabled. So more efficient P-cores.


Nope it’s not supported.


----------



## Gadfly

Ichirou said:


> P-core SP of 112 is golden; you shouldn't hesitate to push it to 5.4-5.5 GHz. Otherwise, you are probably wasting that performance.
> You could also sell it for $1,200+ USD, buy another chip, and pocket the difference as profit.
> Practically any 12900 K/KF/KS will run 5.2 GHz all-core without any difficulty.


For a 12900K/KF, yes that is pretty golden. 

But SP 112 on a K/FK is a pretty average / slightly above average KS. A KS with a score of 100+ on the P cores is pretty equivalent of SP 112 K/KF. I Purchased 4 KS CPU's and 2 were over 100 on the P cores, and one was 98 (one was defective). Still, a KS at P 98, is roughly the same as an SP 112 K/KF. 

The only way that CPU will sell for much more than a new KS is if you can show that it will run 5.6 all core at reasonable voltages as the overwhelming majority of 12900KS will run 5.4 @ 1.3-1.325v vcore (under load) and 5.5 ghz @ 1.35-1.375v vcore (again, under load).

So if he can show a 5.6/4.4ghz @ 1.38v or under while loaded, someone will buy it for big money; but it if is only running 5.4/4.3 at 1.3v+ then most likely $850-$950.


----------



## Gadfly

chentj1988 said:


> 5.4ghz (1.305v) all core Manual1.31v llc8 multi core R23 but thermal throttling.  I can run Dota 2 without problem with this 5.4ghz. I set short duration to 260w but it wont help. Guess I will never get pass 5.4ghz without proper cooling. Not sure bout the potential of this CPU but i think it can go even higher if thermal is not the bottleneck of it.


What is the minimum core voltage you need to pass R23 at 5.4ghz on the P cores and 4.3ghz E cores? Not what is set in the bios, but what is the actual core voltage on the cores under load.

If you are thermally throttling try 5.3/4.3


----------



## Ichirou

chentj1988 said:


> Nope it’s not supported.


Did you disable the E-cores first? AVX-512 does not support the E-cores, and will remain disabled if they are active.


Gadfly said:


> For a 12900K/KF, yes that is pretty golden.
> 
> But SP 112 on a K/FK is a pretty average / slightly above average KS. A KS with a score of 100+ on the P cores is pretty equivalent of SP 112 K/KF. I Purchased 4 KS CPU's and 2 were over 100 on the P cores, and one was 98 (one was defective). Still, a KS at P 98, is roughly the same as an SP 112 K/KF.
> 
> The only way that CPU will sell for much more than a new KS is if you can show that it will run 5.6 all core at reasonable voltages as the overwhelming majority of 12900KS will run 5.4 @ 1.3-1.325v vcore (under load) and 5.5 ghz @ 1.35-1.375v vcore (again, under load).
> 
> So if he can show a 5.6/4.4ghz @ 1.38v or under while loaded, someone will buy it for big money; but it if is only running 5.4/4.3 at 1.3v+ then most likely $850-$950.


Welp, looks like there is some depreciation going on already, with more and more KSes out in the wild. The KSes are overall easier to bin, after all.
That makes it even more imperative to have AVX-512 support, since the KS (and newer K/KFs) does not have it.


----------



## chentj1988

1.252v underload 5.3/4.3 passed. I tried lower 10mv and r23 shows error message. I guess my sample is quite good but not the godlike type. I’m keen to keep this cpu. The temp is so much better than my SP87 12900k.


----------



## Ichirou

chentj1988 said:


> 1.252v underload 5.3/4.3 passed. I tried lower 10mv and r23 shows error message. I guess my sample is quite good but not the godlike type. I’m keen to keep this cpu. The temp is so much better than my SP87 12900k.


P-core SP of 110+ on a K/KF is golden. You can probably do 5.4-5.5 with up to 1.35-1.40V Vcore. But you'd need to be able to cool it.
If you temporarily disable the E-cores, that'll give you some thermal headroom.


----------



## Gadfly

chentj1988 said:


> 1.252v underload 5.3/4.3 passed. I tried lower 10mv and r23 shows error message. I guess my sample is quite good but not the godlike type. I’m keen to keep this cpu. The temp is so much better than my SP87 12900k.


hmm... Looks like you are still throttling a little bit somewhere, that CB R23 score is pretty low for 5.3/4.3. Here is my SP 94 (P 103 / E 77) 12900KS, 5.3/4.3, loaded MB defaults, only set llc at -50% droop (EVGA), and static clocks at 5.3/4.3. (Default cache/ring, memory on defaults); full fat Windows 11 Pro, normal priority.

1.230v v-core under load, 360mm AIO

If we go by the “KS P score + 10 points = K/KF” rule, I am at 113 p core, and ran a full 20mv lower than your 112 CPU. I think that in all reality a +15/20 to the P score is a little more accurate. Not trying to discourage you here. You won the lottery, 100% hands down; but I think the days for $1000+ K/KF CPU’s are pretty much over, especially if they don’t have AVX512 support.

I’d keep that CPU, radically improve your cooling system, and win.


----------



## Nizzen

I like 7000mhz on the memory more than all core 5.5ghz. Gaming performance is in the memory performance 

I have Threadripper for Cinebench


----------



## Gadfly

Nizzen said:


> I like 7000mhz on the memory more than all core 5.5ghz. Gaming performance is in the memory performance
> 
> I have Threadripper for Cinebench


same here, but I am having trouble with 7000C30 1T, 6800C30 1T was a breeze, but finding the right combo to run 7000C30 1T at voltages and temps that are 24/7 friendly is proving to be a challenge.

mind posting your 24/7 memory timings and voltages?

Here is where I am at currently, almost stable... Will pass y-cruncher 2.5b on a loop, but will kick out a few errors on a 1 hour pass of TM5. I might have to do some tuning on my sub-timings and loosen things up a bit and get the voltage back down below 1.55v.

Mem VDD: 1.6v
MemVDDQ: 1.55v
VDD2 (MC on Asus): 1.55v
VDDQ TX (IVR on Asus): 1.35v
SA: Auto (0.943v)










Here is my 6800C301T fully stable profile:

Mem VDD: 1.52v
MemVDDQ: 1.52v
VDD2 (MC on Asus): Auto (1.5v)
VDDQ TX (IVR on Asus): 1.35v
SA: Auto (0.943v)


----------



## chentj1988

Nahhh I like the way you explain it. I’m not here for making money or competition. I’m here to learn. So assume I want to do 5.3ghz for daily usage, my Vmin is 1.252v, what’s your recommended voltage & llc setting in my bios? Assume I ignore the thermal throttling problem in stress test. And what else I can do to decrease my temp? I ordered thermalright cpu bracket. Not sure if it helps. My system is water looped with 3 360 radiators.


----------



## Ichirou

chentj1988 said:


> Nahhh I like the way you explain it. I’m not here for making money or competition. I’m here to learn. So assume I want to do 5.3ghz for daily usage, my Vmin is 1.252v, what’s your recommended voltage & llc setting in my bios? Assume I ignore the thermal throttling problem in stress test. And what else I can do to decrease my temp? I ordered thermalright cpu bracket. Not sure if it helps. My system is water looped with 3 360 radiators.


LLC is up to you, but for ASUS, 4 is more or less ideal for a daily system. You may have to raise Vcore to compensate for the Vdroop. (It's fine to do so; don't think too hard about it.)
Kill the E-cores, and you'll have more thermal headroom. Otherwise, not much you can do besides better cooling.


----------



## chentj1988

Ichirou said:


> LLC is up to you, but for ASUS, 4 is more or less ideal for a daily system. You may have to raise Vcore to compensate for the Vdroop. (It's fine to do so; don't think too hard about it.)
> Kill the E-cores, and you'll have more thermal headroom. Otherwise, not much you can do besides better cooling.


I will probably disable the E-core as my main purpose is to play game with it. Need to spend more time test out the setting. Did you delid your 12900? Is it worth it?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Gadfly said:


> same here, but I am having trouble with 7000C30 1T, 6800C30 1T was a breeze, but finding the right combo to run 7000C30 1T at voltages and temps that are 24/7 friendly is proving to be a challenge.
> 
> mind posting your 24/7 memory timings and voltages?
> 
> Here is where I am at currently, almost stable... Will pass y-cruncher 2.5b on a loop, but will kick out a few errors on a 1 hour pass of TM5. I might have to do some tuning on my sub-timings and loosen things up a bit and get the voltage back down below 1.55v.
> 
> Mem VDD: 1.6v
> MemVDDQ: 1.55v
> VDD2 (MC on Asus): 1.55v
> VDDQ TX (IVR on Asus): 1.35v
> SA: Auto (0.943v)
> 
> View attachment 2560456
> 
> 
> Here is my 6800C301T fully stable profile:
> 
> Mem VDD: 1.52v
> MemVDDQ: 1.52v
> VDD2 (MC on Asus): Auto (1.5v)
> VDDQ TX (IVR on Asus): 1.35v
> SA: Auto (0.943v)
> 
> View attachment 2560457


Why tm5 extreme is only 27m? At least 1 hour. And y cruncher for 7000c30 is kinda low. Not sure because u run 5.2 core and 2600 ring or what.


----------



## Ichirou

chentj1988 said:


> I will probably disable the E-core as my main purpose is to play game with it. Need to spend more time test out the setting. Did you delid your 12900? Is it worth it?


@sugi0lover knows much more about the differences of Stock vs Relid Liquid Metal vs Direct Die, but it essentially goes from Stock > -10C > -17C (total values). So it's worth it.


----------



## acoustic

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Why tm5 extreme is only 27m? At least 1 hour. And y cruncher for 7000c30 is kinda low. Not sure because u run 5.2 core and 2600 ring or what.


I'd imagine he's trying to test the ram and making sure his ring clock isn't causing any crashes, and forgot to set it back before running the tests lol

Probably part of the reason his Y Cruncher is looking weird.


----------



## bscool

59s is pretty normal score for 52 p core clocks on y cruncher with e cores enabled.

You need to disable e cores and use avx to get sub 56s.

Ring at 2600 I would guess is because he is not running static clocks and some power saving feature enabled in Windows. Mine will show 3600 when not using static clocks on some runs using High Performance Power Plan.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

5.3/4.3/4.5. I remember sugi with his golden chip hit 55s at 5.5ghz.


----------



## Gadfly

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Why tm5 extreme is only 27m? At least 1 hour. And y cruncher for 7000c30 is kinda low. Not sure because u run 5.2 core and 2600 ring or what.


that depends entirely on which profile you run. The 1usmus v3 heats the memory up a lot hotter than the old Anita extreme or even absolute. I generally run tm5 for 30 min to run the memory hot and then HCI to over 1500% which is at least 12 hours.

y-chruncher was cpu all stock with other things running, like xtu, hwinfo, etc.


----------



## Gadfly

Thanh Nguyen said:


> 5.3/4.3/4.5. I remember sugi with his golden chip hit 55s at 5.5ghz.
> 
> View attachment 2560487


Nice run. I remember that run even at 5.5 he was running a stripped out OS to get 55s.


----------



## Gadfly

bscool said:


> 59s is pretty normal score for 52 p core clocks on y cruncher with e cores enabled.
> 
> You need to disable e cores and use avx to get sub 56s.
> 
> Ring at 2600 I would guess is because he is not running static clocks and some power saving feature enabled in Windows. Mine will show 3600 when not using static clocks on some runs using High Performance Power Plan.


Ring was stock; so 3800 ghz on the 7000c30, and 4.5 on the 6800c30 run. (It is in the SS, not sure where he got 2600)

TBH, I wasn’t really going for speed, just using it as a stability checker. Pretty sure I had hwinfo, xtu, EVGA’s in OS OC tool, note pad, Aida 64 etc. all open and full fat Win 11 pro.

I shocked it was below 60s to be honest….


----------



## sugi0lover

Gadfly said:


> Nice run. I remember that run even at 5.5 he was running a stripped out OS to get 55s.


Nope, I don't have any stripped OS installed. I have two normal windows. One for Overclock test, so it's okay if that windows got crashed. The other windows is for normal usage once the setup is stable on the test Window.


----------



## Ichirou

@bscool Holy cow. I actually managed to boot 4,000 MHz with four DIMMs on Gear 1. Terrible timings, but it's a start.








Gonna see if I can tighten these bad boys to any meaningful extent.


----------



## bscool

Here is a run using Arctic 420 AIO and Karhu stable mem oc and hitting 55s, it is throttling so with better cooling would do better. OS regular Win 10 iso and install.

In the y cruncher thread @sugi0lover is hitting 52s.









Punish it with y-cruncher







www.overclock.net


----------



## Gadfly

sugi0lover said:


> Nope, I don't have any stripped OS installed. I have two normal windows. One for Overclock test, so it's okay if that windows got crashed. The other windows is for normal usage once the setup is stable on the test Window.


Are you running with avx512 for those times? Really impressive. Nice job


----------



## sugi0lover

Gadfly said:


> Are you running with avx512 for those times? Really impressive. Nice job


Thanks! With E cores on, avx512 can't be active, so it was run without avx512. For E cores off, 52s record, avx512 can be active, so it was enabled for that e cores off run.


----------



## chentj1988

Ohh this guy has the same problem as me. Seems like Asus motherboard might bugged out if you change CPU.


cletus-cassidy said:


> Oh it's probably that Asus bios bug with SP when changing CPUs. I had a regular 12900K CPU in here previously. Can change BIOS version and see what it spits out.


----------



## EarlZ

I'm trying to play with some undervolting on my 12900K and I cant seem to find a similar setting that is found in XTU which is Core Voltage Offset and I am using an Asus Z690 Strix D4. Can anyone point me to the right setting name on this mobo?


----------



## fat4l

Well here it is ....max turbo limits ??


----------



## SSBrain

Max turbo limit simply means that the highest frequency the processor can go has been reached. If it's lower than what you configured, possibly it could have to do with AVX instructions (used during Cinebench) which by default on the 12900K can go to 51x maximum. I'm not sure about the KS model. You might have to check out AVX offsets on your motherboard to work around this limit. Perhaps you're better off asking other users who have this or similar Asus motherboards in this regard.



https://skatterbencher.com/2021/11/04/alder-lake-overclocking-whats-new/#AVX2_Negative_Ratio_Offset_Per_Core


----------



## Ichirou

@mike7877 @bscool @Groove2013 Stabilized 4,000 MHz Gear 1 with 4x8 GB Samsung B-die Single Rank, on the MSI Edge:








It was not easy. VDIMM could probably go lower; VCCSA is most likely tacked at that value (and that's with a binned DDR4 IMC).
Two mixed Samsung B-die kits from different manufacturers (Galax and Team Group), so the RTLs are displaced.

Those are pretty much the tightest timings I can slap on these DIMMs in 4x8 configuration. In 2x8, I can tighten them even further for both kits.
tCL is basically impossible at 15, and many of the other primaries/secondaries can be tightened further, but they will fail y-cruncher.
_(Haven't tested higher multipliers or with E-cores on because it's only running with an NH-D15 for now... Water loop will come in a few weeks.)_

If anyone's been hoping to run quad DIMMs on Gear 1, there is certainly hope.
I don't know whether the MSI Edge is Daisy Chain or T-Topology, but it's certainly feeling like a T-Topo to me right now. Or good enough to be one.
And for those curious, on Gear 2, it can boot 4x8 with Samsung B-die up to 4,400 MHz. 4,533 will POST but fail to reach Windows. With 2x8, max is 5,000+ MHz.
I expect even better results with my Micron B-die 4x16 GB kit once I actually get around to testing it.


----------



## fat4l

SSBrain said:


> Max turbo limit simply means that the highest frequency the processor can go has been reached. If it's lower than what you configured, possibly it could have to do with AVX instructions (used during Cinebench) which by default on the 12900K can go to 51x maximum. I'm not sure about the KS model. You might have to check out AVX offsets on your motherboard to work around this limit. Perhaps you're better off asking other users who have this or similar Asus motherboards in this regard.
> 
> 
> 
> https://skatterbencher.com/2021/11/04/alder-lake-overclocking-whats-new/#AVX2_Negative_Ratio_Offset_Per_Core


Yeah it's always at 5.5G...never drops below. I never configured loadline stuff thats maybe why the its not showing the right watts...I set llc to 6 and left the rest at auto...

Also avx offsets are 0


Does anyone know what's the right settings for LLC4 or LLC6? Ia ac ia dc?


----------



## SSBrain

This was in another thread on the Asus Maximus Z690 which should use the same LLC settings. You should adjust IA DC loadline according to these values for correct power and VID readings:



> LLC1: 1.75 milliohms
> LLC2: 1.46 milliohms
> LLC3: 1.1 milliohms
> LLC4: 0.98 milliohms
> LLC5: 0.73 milliohms
> LLC6: 0.49 milliohms
> LLC7: 0.24 milliohms
> LLC8: 0.01 milliohms (flat).


IA *A*C Loadline on the other hand will affect load voltages so you shouldn't change it from its current setting unless you want to actually change your voltages. However it only has an effect with Adaptive/Auto voltages.









ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...


Disclaimer ! These settings and methods are outside Intel's specifications, just like any other overclocking method. ---------------------------------------------------- For Z790/13900K click here Introduction: In a world increasingly concerned with natural resources, the watchword is...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

fat4l said:


> Yeah it's always at 5.5G...never drops below. I never configured loadline stuff thats maybe why the its not showing the right watts...I set llc to 6 and left the rest at auto...
> 
> Also avx offsets are 0
> 
> 
> Does anyone know what's the right settings for LLC4 or LLC6? Ia ac ia dc?


Tried avx offset 1. Somehow with avx offset 0 cpu will clock down more.


----------



## fat4l

SSBrain said:


> This was in another thread on the Asus Maximus Z690 which should use the same LLC settings. You should adjust IA DC loadline according to these values for correct power and VID readings:
> 
> 
> 
> IA *A*C Loadline on the other hand will affect load voltages so you shouldn't change it from its current setting unless you want to actually change your voltages. However it only has an effect with Adaptive/Auto voltages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...
> 
> 
> Disclaimer ! These settings and methods are outside Intel's specifications, just like any other overclocking method. ---------------------------------------------------- For Z790/13900K click here Introduction: In a world increasingly concerned with natural resources, the watchword is...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


So basically if I use manual voltage...I should not worry?


----------



## SSBrain

AC Loadline is only used for Adaptive voltage. Your manual voltage should be obeyed.

However the motherboard may or may not use the DC Loadline to adjust power readings for voltage settings other than Adaptive. I don't know how Asus motherboards behave in this regard, you should try.


----------



## sugi0lover

I couldn't wait for the waterblock for the high level 3090 Ti, so I bought 3090 Ti XTREME WATERFORCE.
Here are some 3DMark World Rankings based on all kinds of CPUs and one 3090 Ti.
○ CPU : 12900K all cores (P 5.7Ghz / E 4.4Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz)
○ VGA : 3090 Ti XTREME WATERFORCE
○ Ram OC : 7200Mhz-30-41-40-28-305-2T (Gear 2)
○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0090)
○ Ambient Temp : 23~27C
○ Cooling : Mora 420 Pro (CPU, RAM) , VGA AIO


----------



## fat4l

sugi0lover said:


> I couldn't wait for the waterblock for the high level 3090 Ti, so I bought 3090 Ti XTREME WATERFORCE.
> Here are some 3DMark World Rankings based on all kinds of CPUs and one 3090 Ti.
> ○ CPU : 12900K all cores (P 5.7Ghz / E 4.4Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz)
> ○ VGA : 3090 Ti XTREME WATERFORCE
> ○ Ram OC : 7200Mhz-30-41-40-28-305-2T (Gear 2)
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0090)
> ○ Ambient Temp : 23~27C
> ○ Cooling : Mora 420 Pro (CPU, RAM) , VGA AIO
> View attachment 2560514
> View attachment 2560515
> View attachment 2560516
> View attachment 2560517
> View attachment 2560518
> View attachment 2560519
> View attachment 2560520


Great mate lol. What kind of temps are you hitting on that 3090ti?


----------



## fat4l

SSBrain said:


> AC Loadline is only used for Adaptive voltage. Your manual voltage should be obeyed.
> 
> However the motherboard may or may not use the DC Loadline to adjust power readings for voltage settings other than Adaptive. I don't know how Asus motherboards behave in this regard, you should try.


Generally speaking...all of you guys are testing with win 11?


----------



## sugi0lover

fat4l said:


> Great mate lol. What kind of temps are you hitting on that 3090ti?











I scored 24 125 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 Ti x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com




You can see the temp of CPU & VGA.


----------



## SSBrain

fat4l said:


> Generally speaking...all of you guys are testing with win 11?


I generally do testing on Linux since it's the OS that I use the most, although sometimes I boot onto Windows since there is currently support for a greater number of motherboard sensors via HWInfo64. 

Stress tools like Prime95, Y-cruncher, Blender, Linpack Xtreme are also available on Linux. Additionally, lately I've found that compiling large applications stresses the CPU like no other program.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

sugi0lover said:


> I couldn't wait for the waterblock for the high level 3090 Ti, so I bought 3090 Ti XTREME WATERFORCE.
> Here are some 3DMark World Rankings based on all kinds of CPUs and one 3090 Ti.
> ○ CPU : 12900K all cores (P 5.7Ghz / E 4.4Ghz / Cache 4.6Ghz)
> ○ VGA : 3090 Ti XTREME WATERFORCE
> ○ Ram OC : 7200Mhz-30-41-40-28-305-2T (Gear 2)
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex (Bios 0090)
> ○ Ambient Temp : 23~27C
> ○ Cooling : Mora 420 Pro (CPU, RAM) , VGA AIO
> View attachment 2560514
> View attachment 2560515
> View attachment 2560516
> View attachment 2560517
> View attachment 2560518
> View attachment 2560519
> View attachment 2560520


How did you manage to get 5.7 on your CPU? Overvolt or just P cores?


----------



## Gadfly

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks! With E cores on, avx512 can't be active, so it was run without avx512. For E cores off, 52s record, avx512 can be active, so it was enabled for that e cores off run.


Nice my man, looks like I have a target to match


----------



## sugi0lover

TheNaitsyrk said:


> How did you manage to get 5.7 on your CPU? Overvolt or just P cores?


[Update] typo : Cine =》 3DMark
5.7 for 3DMark or Game bench is not hard for my CPU.
As I mentioned, all cores P 5.7Ghz, E 4.4Ghz, Cache 4.6Ghz.
That's how the physics scores are high.


----------



## Gadfly

chentj1988 said:


> Ohh this guy has the same problem as me. Seems like Asus motherboard might bugged out if you change CPU.


just reset bios, and it will re-calc


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

sugi0lover said:


> 5.7 for Cine or Game bench is not hard for my CPU.
> As I mentioned, all cores P 5.7Ghz, E 4.4Ghz, Cache 4.6Ghz.
> That's how the physics scores are high.


What voltages?


----------



## sugi0lover

TheNaitsyrk said:


> What voltages?


I put 1.44v at bios (llc7), so the load voltage should be below 1.40v.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

sugi0lover said:


> I put 1.44v at bios (llc7), so the load voltage should be below 1.40v.


Ah okay that explains a lot


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> I put 1.44v at bios (llc7), so the load voltage should be below 1.40v.


How's you manage to cool it


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> How's you manage to cool it


brought Mora420 Pro into the room and set room A/C to 23C. I don't have any other cooling.
3DMark CPU Part is not that hard since it is very short.


----------



## Ichirou

The Corsair 6,200 MHz CL36 seems to have better binned Hynix ICs than the G.Skill 6,400 MHz CL32. Can reach up to 8,000+ MHz.
But Igor's Lab claims that their sample was crap, so it is probably a lottery. Maybe someone here could buy a kit to test?


----------



## Nizzen

Ichirou said:


> The Corsair 6,200 MHz CL36 seems to have better binned Hynix ICs than the G.Skill 6,400 MHz CL32. Can reach up to 8,000+ MHz.
> But Igor's Lab claims that their sample was crap, so it is probably a lottery. Maybe someone here could buy a kit to test?


Not better, just luck of draw. "silicon lottery" 

G.skill 6400 on water. My friend tested.








8000 easy with one stick G.skill 6400c32


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

New 12900KS (batch V150J405) 5.3GHz 1.2v load:


----------



## Ichirou

MrTOOSHORT said:


> New 12900KS (batch V150J405) 5.3GHz 1.2v load:
> 
> View attachment 2560590
> View attachment 2560592
> View attachment 2560593


KS with a P-core SP of 110? I think that's the absolute highest seen yet.
You're definitely going to have to test 5.5+ GHz for us. Even @sugi0lover with his 108 chip can do 5.5-5.7 GHz all-core.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Tried 5.5 1.4v LLC7, no go. But only set it up just over an hour ago.

5.4GHz is a go though quickly. Coming from my old chip @5.1Ghz max, this chip is a beast. I am happy with it already.


----------



## Ichirou

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Tried 5.5 1.4v LLC7, no go. But only set it up just over an hour ago.
> 
> 5.4GHz is a go though quickly. Coming from my old chip @5.1Ghz max, this chip is a beast. I am happy with it already.


Thermal throttling? Or the chip just doesn't want to play ball at 5.5 GHz?


----------



## EarlZ

sugi0lover said:


> I asked him and he tightened it at the maximum with his fingers.
> 
> Yes. The guy of the review I posted used AIO.
> 
> View attachment 2559362


I cant find any information on your post if this is compatible with AIO.


----------



## sugi0lover

EarlZ said:


> I cant find any information on your post if this is compatible with AIO.


It's just a replacement of the original frame. I see more than 20 reviews about this frame recently
and I haven't seen anyone including people with AIO having any compatibility issue so far.


----------



## sugi0lover

MrTOOSHORT said:


> New 12900KS (batch V150J405) 5.3GHz 1.2v load:
> 
> View attachment 2560590
> View attachment 2560592
> View attachment 2560593


Hey pal, how did your AI Festures show P0 Frequency 5400 and P1 Frequency 5100 instead of 5500 and 5200?
Whatever actual clock people set, the screen I have seen shows 5500 and 5200 for 12900KS.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Won't do R23 at 5.5, even 1.425v LLc7. But 5.4GHz 1.3v LLC7 no problem.

I seen the 5400-5100 too was wondering myself compared to other 12900ks cpus.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Won't do R23 at 5.5, even 1.425v LLc7. But 5.4GHz 1.3v LLC7 no problem.
> 
> I seen the 5400-5100 too was wondering myself compared to other 12900ks cpus.
> 
> View attachment 2560619


What kind of cooling are you using? Also any idea what ur voltage is drooping to under load? Any idea if die sense voltage?


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

1.243v according to cpuz while watching it. My cooling is just a 480mm x 60mm of rad in a 800d. Sig v2 cpu block.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

MrTOOSHORT said:


> 1.243v according to cpuz while watching it. My cooling is just a 480mm x 60mm of rad in a 800d. Sig v2 cpu block.


You should have no problem hitting 5.5 on p cores w/ e cores enabled atleast at 4.2. Try a bit higher voltage. Mine needs about 1.27V under load (so 1.375V set in bios) and temps in high 70s or low 80s on hottest core. Urs has better p cores than mine. I'm using same block as you. A 480mm should be more than sufficient for the cpu though it really isn't a factor unless running more long term stress tests. A couple runs of cinebench won't saturate your water temps too much.


----------



## fat4l

Any one in Coventry UK (or close) who I could come to and test the SP rating of the cpu? I can't test in mine anymore


----------



## jomama22

MrTOOSHORT said:


> 1.243v according to cpuz while watching it. My cooling is just a 480mm x 60mm of rad in a 800d. Sig v2 cpu block.


What bios are you using? I have a feeling that's an incorrect sp reading. 

My SP p core of 97 hits 5.5 @ 1.32v, my sp p core 102 hits 5.5 @ 1.29v.

But I can't stress enough, SP is meaningless anyway.


----------



## centvalny

MrTOOSHORT said:


> New 12900KS (batch V150J405) 5.3GHz 1.2v load:
> 
> View attachment 2560590
> View attachment 2560592
> View attachment 2560593


Just set all stock and reboot to bios. Good V150 ks


----------



## Gadfly

jomama22 said:


> What bios are you using? I have a feeling that's an incorrect sp reading.
> 
> My SP p core of 97 hits 5.5 @ 1.32v, my sp p core 102 hits 5.5 @ 1.29v.
> 
> But I can't stress enough, SP is meaningless anyway.


Wouldn’t say meaningless, as Intel programmed the vid tables they way they did based on bin testing; but I would say it isn’t the be all end all. What a chip will do is ultimately what matters most, and there are a lot of variables.

For example I had no problem running 5.5/4.3/4.5 on my Apex at under 1.3v under load, and could even pass CB R23 at 5.6ghz but in my Dark kingpin that same cpu requires 1.32v to run 5.4/4.3/4.5 , and won’t run 5.5 at all, seemingly at any voltage.

I have no idea why there is such a big difference between the two boards. (Though I feel it is most likely some kind of power limit?)


----------



## Ichirou

Gadfly said:


> Wouldn’t say meaningless, as Intel programmed the vid tables they way they did based on bin testing; but I would say it isn’t the be all end all. What a chip will do is ultimately what matters most, and there are a lot of variables.
> 
> For example I had no problem running 5.5/4.3/4.5 on my Apex at under 1.3v under load, and could even pass CB R23 at 5.6ghz but in my Dark kingpin that same cpu requires 1.32v to run 5.4/4.3/4.5 , and won’t run 5.5 at all, seemingly at any voltage.
> 
> I have no idea why there is such a big difference between the two boards. (Though I feel it is most likely some kind of power limit?)


According to the recent Corsair overclocking competition, the EVGA BIOS is still in its infancy and has some kinks. The Apex reigns above all, and surprisingly the Gigabyte Tachyon is a close second.


----------



## jomama22

Ichirou said:


> According to the recent Corsair overclocking competition, the EVGA BIOS is still in its infancy and has some kinks. The Apex reigns above all, and surprisingly the Gigabyte Tachyon is a close second.


The Corsair test really only mattered for round one and round two. Round 3 used y-cruncher and the kingpin doesn't have an avx512 toggle nor the appropriate microcode to run it competitively.

Look at the competition yourself and you'll see there is basically no difference between the 3 and just coms down to who has better binned components.

Also, let's not forget how you need a proper running apex and Tachyon in the first place which is a crap shoot at retail. In the same vein, the KP more or less just became available which is kinda meh.


----------



## jomama22

12900KS SP 94 (P102, 78 E) on Kingpin, PCores only.
5.6/52 r23 load @ 1.4v (vcore), 1.373v (VR Out), 1.45v (multimeter). You take your pick of what is right lol.










Loops stable in r23 for an hour. More just to show the core temps using the direct die.

I'll upload an e-core enabled soon enough.


----------



## Gadfly

jomama22 said:


> The Corsair test really only mattered for round one and round two. Round 3 used y-cruncher and the kingpin doesn't have an avx512 toggle nor the appropriate microcode to run it competitively.
> 
> Look at the competition yourself and you'll see there is basically no difference between the 3 and just coms down to who has better binned components.
> 
> Also, let's not forget how you need a proper running apex and Tachyon in the first place which is a crap shoot at retail. In the same vein, the KP more or less just became available which is kinda meh.


Which is fine, but doesn’t explain why my dark KP requires so much in additional voltage to run the same clocks on the same components vs the Apex.

Not that 100mhz less and 50mv more is a deal breaker; the dark KP runs memory really well. I am sure once I move from the AIO on the bench to the custom loop in the case it will be fine.


----------



## jomama22

Gadfly said:


> Which is fine, but doesn’t explain why my dark KP requires so much in additional voltage to run the same clocks on the same components vs the Apex.
> 
> Not that 100mhz less and 50mv more is a deal breaker; the dark KP runs memory really well. I am sure once I move from the AIO on the bench to the custom loop in the case it will be fine.


I am really not sure. It's hard for me to compare as I put the direct die on my chip when I set up the KP. The voltage reading are different between the two though, that's for sure. Was talking to @SoldierRBT about it and they noticed around a 30mv higher voltage (using vr out I believe) for the same clocks, but the temps were the same, which, 30 mv will give you a few degrees difference.

Maybe comparing cpu package power makes more sense. I feel like its the same thing as between socket vs die, but I really am not sure.


----------



## jomama22

Same cpu as above 5.6/4.4/46:








4.5 on the ecores is close, but got error when running (literally first time i'v turned them on) so 4.4 it is. Maybe could go higher with cache but just set it to 46 to see.

~400w total. P-core temps don't really change with E-cores. Same voltage as last post.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

jomama22 said:


> Same cpu as above 5.6/4.4/46:
> View attachment 2560694
> 
> 4.5 on the ecores is close, but got error when running (literally first time i'v turned them on) so 4.4 it is. Maybe could go higher with cache but just set it to 46 to see.
> 
> ~400w total. P-core temps don't really change with E-cores. Same voltage as last post.


What voltage and llc u set in bios?


----------



## jomama22

Thanh Nguyen said:


> What voltage and llc u set in bios?


1.4v set, llc -75%.

for those interested, here's 5.4/4.3/46 @ 1.215v set, get 1.215 (vcore) 1.189 (vr out):


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

jomama22 said:


> 1.4v set, llc -75%.
> 
> for those interested, here's 5.4/4.3/46 @ 1.215v set, get 1.215 (vcore) 1.189 (vr out):
> View attachment 2560697


Weird why i set 1.4v 75% llc but core vid is only 1.35v. You are at almost 1.5v.


----------



## Gadfly

jomama22 said:


> 1.4v set, llc -75%.
> 
> for those interested, here's 5.4/4.3/46 @ 1.215v set, get 1.215 (vcore) 1.189 (vr out):
> View attachment 2560697


Remind me, are you running direct die?


----------



## jomama22

Gadfly said:


> Remind me, are you running direct die?


Yeah, I put it on when I set up the kingpin. When I match CPU package power to what the Apex reported for 5.4/50, chip runs 20C cooler, core avg drop is like 18C. I didn't bottom out the voltage at 5.4 on the Apex as I merely used it to test the 5.5 voltage requirement before my kingpin got here so I don't have a good voltage comparison (also possible the direct die block would have affect that anyway).


----------



## jomama22

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Weird why i set 1.4v 75% llc but core vid is only 1.35v. You are at almost 1.5v.


Vid is based on the clock set not the voltage set.


----------



## sugi0lover

jomama22 said:


> Same cpu as above 5.6/4.4/46:
> View attachment 2560694
> 
> 4.5 on the ecores is close, but got error when running (literally first time i'v turned them on) so 4.4 it is. Maybe could go higher with cache but just set it to 46 to see.
> 
> ~400w total. P-core temps don't really change with E-cores. Same voltage as last post.


Nice job. Direct die is crazy. Your 400W temp is lower than my 345W temp 😅
really looking forward to direct die now.


----------



## Gadfly

jomama22 said:


> Yeah, I put it on when I set up the kingpin. When I match CPU package power to what the Apex reported for 5.4/50, chip runs 20C cooler, core avg drop is like 18C. I didn't bottom out the voltage at 5.4 on the Apex as I merely used it to test the 5.5 voltage requirement before my kingpin got here so I don't have a good voltage comparison (also possible the direct die block would have affect that anyway).


Wow.

I have the block was a bit nervous to use it.

Guess I should buy a de-lid tool and some gallium.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

jomama22 said:


> Vid is based on the clock set not the voltage set.


Can u do 5.5ghz with y cruncher and linx?


----------



## fat4l

Don't this those watts are all correct. Now I reset my bios. .. any throttling is a NO now...CB scores 11750 now... strange...reset of bios...more 1k points


----------



## z390e

what online retailer has NEW non-already-binned 12900KS for sale?

dont want to buy from reseller who already binned them and now selling the trash SP ones


----------



## Alberto_It

Hi to everyone, someone can help me to adjust my Oc profile? I have an Aio cooler so I can't claim your scores in CB23 

My bios and latest score


----------



## 050

Wow those direct die temps are incredible, 400w at 80c? That is truly wild. And what a chip!


----------



## jomama22

z390e said:


> what online retailer has NEW non-already-binned 12900KS for sale?
> 
> dont want to buy from reseller who already binned them and now selling the trash SP ones


BestBuy



Gadfly said:


> Wow.
> 
> I have the block was a bit nervous to use it.
> 
> Guess I should buy a de-lid tool and some gallium.


I was a bit nervous as well but it's really not bad. I used the rockitcool delid tool. I just heated up the chip with a hairdryer on full blast for like 5 min (while it was sitting in the bottom half on the delid kit, so I didn't have to touch the chip will it was hot), put the tool together and started turning the screw. Since it's hot, you don't get the hard pop/shock of the ihs breaking free like when done cold, it just slowly releases. You'll know it's breaking free when you hear the adhesive tearing/ripping and then turning the screw becomes light. At that point I just took the tool apart to check how stick the ihs was still. I had to put it back together, do like 1-2 full rotations on the screw again, then take it apart and the ihs could just be lifted off.

The annoying/most dangerous part was scraping all the adhesive off. Just take your time (the kit comes with a wooden dowel which makes this pretty easy) and then clean up with some rubbing alcohol. The solder remover and flitz polish that come with the kit work really really well in getting the die nice and clean.


----------



## jomama22

5.6/4.4/47 run without hwinfo open:


----------



## jomama22

sugi0lover said:


> Nice job. Direct die is crazy. Your 400W temp is lower than my 345W temp 😅
> really looking forward to direct die now.


Here is a kind of "apples to apples" so to speak. Not sure how the apex and KP compare in terms of reported voltage and power output (I also may have a leakier chip) but here is a run close to what you run now:
5.6/4.4/46 @ 1.36V set, under load get: 1.36v (vcore), 1.327 (vr out)
Ambient temp: 21C
cpu package power: 375w


----------



## Alberto_It

jomama22 said:


> Here is a kind of "apples to apples" so to speak. Not sure how the apex and KP compare in terms of reported voltage and power output (I also may have a leakier chip) but here is a run close to what you run now:
> 5.6/4.4/46 @ 1.36V set, under load get: 1.36v (vcore), 1.327 (vr out)
> Ambient temp: 21C
> cpu package power: 375w
> View attachment 2560718


Can you share your bios profile?


----------



## jomama22

Alberto_It said:


> Can you share your bios profile?


It's a kingpin board, won't do you any good.


----------



## Alberto_It

jomama22 said:


> It's a kingpin board, won't do you any good.


Thanks


----------



## jomama22

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Can u do 5.5ghz with y cruncher and linx?


Yes. Voltages aren't minimized or anything, nor is this score all that good for reasons:


----------



## matique

Can't do 5.5 on my build, but here's my temps for 358w, 1.28v under load. 5.4/4.3/4.4. Delidded 12900k, Rockit copper IHS, Optimus Sig V2.


----------



## Gadfly

jomama22 said:


> It's a kingpin board, won't do you any good.


I'll take a copy of your profile, bios 1.09?


----------



## chentj1988

The latest 2022 Apex Z690 have any problem OC memory? I heard pre-2022 version have issue with memory OC. Can someone confirm this? Thanks.


----------



## gecko991

I have an 2021 Apex and can Clock Mem no problem though I might be lucky. Tried three different kinds so far all of which could go beyond 6500.


----------



## bscool

chentj1988 said:


> The latest 2022 Apex Z690 have any problem OC memory? I heard pre-2022 version have issue with memory OC. Can someone confirm this? Thanks.


2022 Apex is good. Can you find one? Last I saw someone on here posted something from [email protected] Asus posted about z690 Apex is no longer produced.

From what I have seen 2022 Apex will do 7000/y cruncher/Karhu stable with good CPU and ram where getting a 2021 that can run 7000 Karhu stable is like hitting the lotto. Most 2021 Apex will be in the 6400 to 6600 Karhu stable range.

I have 2021 Apex and 2022 Apex and 2022 is much easier to run 7000+


----------



## gecko991

Pretty much it seems this replaced a bad Hero board the Cap flip **** though I got lucky with this board.


----------



## Gadfly

bscool said:


> 2022 Apex is good. Can you find one? Last I saw someone on here posted something from [email protected] Asus posted about z690 Apex is no longer produced.
> 
> From what I have seen 2022 Apex will do 7000/y cruncher/Karhu stable with good CPU and ram where getting a 2021 that can run 7000 Karhu stable is like hitting the lotto. Most 2021 Apex will be in the 6400 to 6600 Karhu stable range.
> 
> I have 2021 Apex and 2022 Apex and 2022 is much easier to run 7000+


Asus told me they could not replace my RMA’d Apex because the Apex was discontinued; so they bought it back from me.


----------



## Gadfly

gecko991 said:


> I have an 2021 Apex and can Clock Mem no problem though I might be lucky. Tried three different kinds so far all of which could go beyond 6500.


A “bad” Apex will have issues stabilizing anything above 6400-6600. Mine could boot 7200, but nothing would make it run stable at 6600 or higher.


----------



## Ichirou

The Apex got killed off that soon, huh. What is it being replaced with?


----------



## chentj1988

bscool said:


> 2022 Apex is good. Can you find one? Last I saw someone on here posted something from [email protected] Asus posted about z690 Apex is no longer produced.
> 
> From what I have seen 2022 Apex will do 7000/y cruncher/Karhu stable with good CPU and ram where getting a 2021 that can run 7000 Karhu stable is like hitting the lotto. Most 2021 Apex will be in the 6400 to 6600 Karhu stable range.
> 
> I have 2021 Apex and 2022 Apex and 2022 is much easier to run 7000+


China Taobao apps. Something like Amazon but it’s built for china. They sell binned chip too. 12900ksP-Core sp 108 cost around $1800. The Apex motherboard cost around $800. But looks limited availability.


----------



## Ichirou

chentj1988 said:


> China Taobao apps. Something like Amazon but it’s built for china. They sell binned chip too. 12900ksP-Core sp 108 cost around $1800. The Apex motherboard cost around $800. But looks limited availability.


Got a link to that chip? Am curious to see it.


----------



## chentj1988

-Deleted-


----------



## Ichirou

chentj1988 said:


> https://m.tb.cn/h.fslmNoH?tk=OoMS2k2RlmW
> 
> 
> View attachment 2560761


Oh wow, that form of marketing the chips is so clear and concise. Much better than what we have here.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Do they ship to the US?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

fat4l said:


> Any one in Coventry UK (or close) who I could come to and test the SP rating of the cpu? I can't test in mine anymore


Me, I don't mind helping.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Just bought an EVGA Dark Z690 to go with my new 12900ks I hope to get it by Friday for the long weekend. Was stuck @6600Mhz memory with my Apex, hope to get more with the new board.

Frustrating having TM5 fail time after time, boot after to boot. Hope those problems are long gone.


----------



## Ichirou

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Just bought an EVGA Dark Z690 to go with my new 12900ks I hope to get it by Friday for the long weekend. Was stuck @6600Mhz memory with my Apex, hope to get more with the new board.
> 
> Frustrating having TM5 fail time after time, boot after to boot. Hope those problems are long gone.
> 
> View attachment 2560790


They got fixed with 2022 revisions, but that's not really much of a solution. Can only RMA, but apparently they don't even send out new Apexes anymore.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Ichirou said:


> They got fixed with 2022 revisions, but that's not really much of a solution. Can only RMA, but apparently they don't even send out new Apexes anymore.


Believe me, I know. I'm glued to these forums and others regarding the matter. If you don't mind 64-6600Mhz max memory clocks, Apex is a great board. Couldn't even get 6400 1T just to be decent in scores.


----------



## Gadfly

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Just bought an EVGA Dark Z690 to go with my new 12900ks I hope to get it by Friday for the long weekend. Was stuck @6600Mhz memory with my Apex, hope to get more with the new board.
> 
> Frustrating having TM5 fail time after time, boot after to boot. Hope those problems are long gone.
> 
> View attachment 2560790


when u are up and running hit me up, I will send you some saved bios profiles with some good base settings for 7000C32 1T.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Gadfly said:


> when u are up and running hit me up, I will send you some saved bios profiles with some good base settings for 7000C32 1T.


Thanks😊


----------



## z390e

Waiting for my 12900KS to arrive, is there a current process for non-Asus board owners to identify relative SP values?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Does temperature affect overclock all that much? I had mobo swap (water damage) put some TG on the CPU and temps soared to 97C as expected and 5.5 and 4.4 no longer passes. I assume when I LM and temps are again at 82C or so, it should allow me to pass CB23 easily like before?


----------



## Nizzen

z390e said:


> Waiting for my 12900KS to arrive, is there a current process for non-Asus board owners to identify relative SP values?


Looping CB 20 @ 5.5ghz on watercooling with 20c watertemp without delidding the chip, then it's a very good chip 
SP 110+


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Does temperature affect overclock all that much? I had mobo swap (water damage) put some TG on the CPU and temps soared to 97C as expected and 5.5 and 4.4 no longer passes. I assume when I LM and temps are again at 82C or so, it should allow me to pass CB23 easily like before?


Even 5-7’C will make a difference let alone 15’C. So yes you should be good to go back at 82’C.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Yeah I had a disaster ladies and gentlemen, I assembled my loop again after applying LM to my 3090 Strix, and a friend pinged me on Facebook and I forgot to seal the GPU block with the plug (Active Backplate is there too) and then I turned PC on and jet of liquid shot at the mobo and I instantly turned it off. Everything lived except the mobo. I was insured via Scan Protect at scan.co.uk and they replaced it free of charge.


----------



## jomama22

Nizzen said:


> Looping CB 20 @ 5.5ghz on watercooling with 20c watertemp without delidding the chip, then it's a very good chip
> SP 110+


My sp 90/p 97 chip did this without an issue so I really wouldn't be putting weight into that lol.


----------



## Gadfly

z390e said:


> Waiting for my 12900KS to arrive, is there a current process for non-Asus board owners to identify relative SP values?


No, only Asus has the SP ratings.


----------



## SSBrain

On an unrelated note, I can confirm that the CPU appears to works also without ILM, although I haven't observed clearly better temperatures compared to using 1mm washers. This should avoid ILM-caused deformation completely.

I'm certain the CPU will remain stuck to the cooler (Noctua NH-D15S) and will probably have to be heated up a bit to be removed from it. A hair dryer should be enough.












EDIT: out of curiosity I tried removing the cooler and of course the CPU got stuck on it. I just had to slide it a bit to take it out, at least with the paste used (fresh Arctic MX-4). Some care needed, though.


----------



## Ichirou

z390e said:


> Waiting for my 12900KS to arrive, is there a current process for non-Asus board owners to identify relative SP values?


Run 5.2-5.3 GHz all-core on R23, find the lowest Vcore, and compare to others in this thread.


SSBrain said:


> On an unrelated note, I can confirm that the CPU appears to works also without ILM, although I haven't observed clearly better temperatures compared to using 1mm washers. This should avoid ILM-caused deformation completely.
> 
> I'm certain the CPU will remain stuck to the cooler (Noctua NH-D15S) and will probably have to be heated up a bit to be removed from it. A hair dryer should be enough.
> 
> Probably not work the risk, though. In the process I found that the washers can be installed on the top side without issue, so there is no need to disassemble everything for that (it could be done one screw at a time).
> 
> View attachment 2560877
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: out of curiosity I tried removing the cooler and of course the CPU got stuck on it. I just had to slide it a bit to take it out, at least with the paste used (fresh Arctic MX-4). Some care needed, though.
> 
> View attachment 2560881


You managed to direct die the chip? Mind giving exact instructions how?

In other news: massive mic drop. 4x16 GB (64 GB) 4,000 CL14 on Gear 1:








@bscool @Raphie @Taraquin @s1rrah @mike7877


----------



## SSBrain

Ichirou said:


> You managed to direct die the chip? Mind giving exact instructions how?


I'm not doing direct-die cooling. I just removed the Independent Loading Mechanism (ILM, see photo) which bends the CPU's Integrated Heat Spreader (IHS), as often mentioned in past discussions. This means that there's no need to use washers or to purchase special frames to prevent this bending issue. On the other hand, safely removing the cooler whenever needed will become trickier.


----------



## s1rrah

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Yeah I had a disaster ladies and gentlemen, I assembled my loop again after applying LM to my 3090 Strix, and a friend pinged me on Facebook and I forgot to seal the GPU block with the plug (Active Backplate is there too) and then I turned PC on and jet of liquid shot at the mobo and I instantly turned it off. Everything lived except the mobo. I was insured via Scan Protect at scan.co.uk and they replaced it free of charge.


How did the LM work on your 3090? Any significant gain?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

s1rrah said:


> How did the LM work on your 3090? Any significant gain?


Haven't had chance to test. Mobo died.


----------



## VGeorge

Hey everyone
My delid-relid kit is coming in a few days and I was searching for ways to glue back the IHS.
I wanted to ask your opinion too. Do you think I should even glue the IHS or not, and what do you suggest I should use as an adhesive?


----------



## Ichirou

VGeorge said:


> Hey everyone
> My delid-relid kit is coming in a few days and I was searching for ways to glue back the IHS.
> I wanted to ask your opinion too. Do you think I should even glue the IHS or not, and what do you suggest I should use as an adhesive?


Just use the retention bracket lol


----------



## 050

VGeorge said:


> Hey everyone
> My delid-relid kit is coming in a few days and I was searching for ways to glue back the IHS.
> I wanted to ask your opinion too. Do you think I should even glue the IHS or not, and what do you suggest I should use as an adhesive?


Not personal experience but looking around it seems to be 50/50 on regluing or not - personal preference.

If you do re-glue it, almost any standard silicone adhesive should do the trick.


----------



## acoustic

I'd use high-temp silicone adhesive.

I didn't use any adhesive when I replaced my IHS with the RockItCool Copper IHS. I applied LM, let it rest for a few minutes, and then held the IHS down while I locked the ILM down. Worked fine, no movement.


----------



## Gadfly

VGeorge said:


> Hey everyone
> My delid-relid kit is coming in a few days and I was searching for ways to glue back the IHS.
> I wanted to ask your opinion too. Do you think I should even glue the IHS or not, and what do you suggest I should use as an adhesive?


I personally never re-glue the IHS; just use the CPU retention bracket.


----------



## VGeorge

Ichirou said:


> Just use the retention bracket lol





050 said:


> Not personal experience but looking around it seems to be 50/50 on regluing or not - personal preference.
> 
> If you do re-glue it, almost any standard silicone adhesive should do the trick.





acoustic said:


> I'd use high-temp silicone adhesive.
> 
> I didn't use any adhesive when I replaced my IHS with the RockItCool Copper IHS. I applied LM, let it rest for a few minutes, and then held the IHS down while I locked the ILM down. Worked fine, no movement.





Gadfly said:


> I personally never re-glue the IHS; just use the CPU retention bracket.


Thanks for the responses everyone! It looks like I won't be reglueing either


----------



## CENS

Anyone here found good KS that he would be willing to sell?


----------



## Falkentyne

VGeorge said:


> Hey everyone
> My delid-relid kit is coming in a few days and I was searching for ways to glue back the IHS.
> I wanted to ask your opinion too. Do you think I should even glue the IHS or not, and what do you suggest I should use as an adhesive?


Use four small drops of RTV silicone in each corner.


----------



## VGeorge

Falkentyne said:


> Use four small drops of RTV silicone in each corner.


Thanks for the response!
Honestly, I read the suggestions from the other guys and also watched Buildzoid's video on mounting delided CPUs like an hour ago and decided not to reglue it lol
If I choose to do so, I'll do it your way.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

I resealed my one using RTV silicone, works like a charm if you intend to leave it that way.


----------



## Falkentyne

VGeorge said:


> Thanks for the response!
> Honestly, I read the suggestions from the other guys and also watched Buildzoid's video on mounting delided CPUs like an hour ago and decided not to reglue it lol
> If I choose to do so, I'll do it your way.


Using a single small drop in each corner is enough to prevent the IHS from moving and shifting around, while being little enough to not create any extra height off the core to IHS contact, and it makes future removal with your fingers easy (sometimes you find that your LM application isn't ideal, like your core min and max temp deltas from coldest to hottest core is too great or has gotten worse with time). It's important to use small drops, because RTV expands when it dries, which many people may not be aware of. Never use a full ring of it like the black intel sealant, etc.

One thing I did to try to preserve LM durability over time is to use a 1500 grit dry sandpaper and wipe the underside of the IHS and the top of the core with it with a bunch of strokes, to make the surface less smooth (make sure you fully clean the surface after doing this, BEFORE applying LM!!). Liquid metal actually hates smooth surfaces. It adheres better to surfaces that have a slight roughness to it, as then the LM can stick into the microvalleys better. You can test this out on any metal spare (non aluminum) surface by testing a fully polished versus a 'buffed' surface of the same item, then drop a dab of liquid metal (after cleaning the buffed surface of course!), and try spreading it around with a lint free wiper (lip gloss applicators are GREAT for spreading LM). https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085XXXPMM/

You'll notice that on the buffed surface, LM will spread almost effortlessly. On the fully polished surface, it will be very difficult to get LM to "wet" the surface, and even after it eventually starts wetting, you may see 'dry spots' as the LM starts sticking to itself rather than the surface! Those "dry spots" that appear on fully polished surfaces are what causes your core temp deltas to skyrocket with time. I tested this extensively with a delidded and resealed 9900k, so I'm speaking from experience.

Hope that makes sense.


----------



## Alberto_It

Hi, one my friend have got the Z690 Hero, I'm helping him to make a Oc profile. 

I can't find the IA VR Voltage Limit on the bios. Where is it located?


----------



## IronAge

@Alberto_It 

Extreme Tweaker\Digi+ VRM


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> Run 5.2-5.3 GHz all-core on R23, find the lowest Vcore, and compare to others in this thread.
> 
> You managed to direct die the chip? Mind giving exact instructions how?
> 
> In other news: massive mic drop. 4x16 GB (64 GB) 4,000 CL14 on Gear 1:
> View attachment 2560882
> 
> @bscool @Raphie @Taraquin @s1rrah @mike7877


Unfortunately my KS tops out at max 4000 MHz CL14 gear 1, despite SP 99 P-cores, whereas my K could do 4133 MHz CL14 gear 1, but had SP 89 P-cores.

Might also be related to current Strix D4 BIOS being worse than BIOS 0901 for max RAM frequency.
But the problem is that KS can work (properly) only on the current/latest Strix D4 BIOS.

this is what I'm testing now with Karhu RAM Test using my 2×16 Trident Z Neo 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 V XMP (January 2021).


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> Unfortunately my KS tops out at max 4000 MHz CL14 gear 1, despite SP 99 P-cores, whereas my K could do 4133 MHz CL14 gear 1, but had SP 89 P-cores.
> 
> Might also be related to current Strix D4 BIOS being worse than BIOS 0901 for max RAM frequency.
> But the problem is that KS can work (properly) only on the current/latest Strix D4 BIOS.
> 
> this is what I'm testing now with Karhu RAM Test using my 2×16 Trident Z Neo 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 V XMP (January 2021).


you could try 0001 BIOS


----------



## Groove2013

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> you could try 0001 BIOS


is this something newer than 1404?
haven't seen it.
do you have a link to it?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Falkentyne said:


> Using a single small drop in each corner is enough to prevent the IHS from moving and shifting around, while being little enough to not create any extra height off the core to IHS contact, and it makes future removal with your fingers easy (sometimes you find that your LM application isn't ideal, like your core min and max temp deltas from coldest to hottest core is too great or has gotten worse with time). It's important to use small drops, because RTV expands when it dries, which many people may not be aware of. Never use a full ring of it like the black intel sealant, etc.
> 
> One thing I did to try to preserve LM durability over time is to use a 1500 grit dry sandpaper and wipe the underside of the IHS and the top of the core with it with a bunch of strokes, to make the surface less smooth (make sure you fully clean the surface after doing this, BEFORE applying LM!!). Liquid metal actually hates smooth surfaces. It adheres better to surfaces that have a slight roughness to it, as then the LM can stick into the microvalleys better. You can test this out on any metal spare (non aluminum) surface by testing a fully polished versus a 'buffed' surface of the same item, then drop a dab of liquid metal (after cleaning the buffed surface of course!), and try spreading it around with a lint free wiper (lip gloss applicators are GREAT for spreading LM). https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085XXXPMM/
> 
> You'll notice that on the buffed surface, LM will spread almost effortlessly. On the fully polished surface, it will be very difficult to get LM to "wet" the surface, and even after it eventually starts wetting, you may see 'dry spots' as the LM starts sticking to itself rather than the surface! Those "dry spots" that appear on fully polished surfaces are what causes your core temp deltas to skyrocket with time. I tested this extensively with a delidded and resealed 9900k, so I'm speaking from experience.
> 
> Hope that makes sense.


I polished my Rockitcool IHS with Fritz polish and LM sticks super well.


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> is this something newer than 1404?
> haven't seen it.
> do you have a link to it?


Could pm your email, I can send it to you. It is older than 1404, but may work in certain situations.


----------



## Groove2013

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Could pm your email, I can send it to you. It is older than 1404, but may work in certain situations.


How old is it? older than 0901? better/same than/as 0901?


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

Groove2013 said:


> How old is it? older than 0901? better/same than/as 0901?


Haven't compared it to 0901. In my case both 1404 and 0001 can run DR bdie @4300C15.


----------



## s1rrah

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Haven't had chance to test. Mobo died.


dango. So it goes. Let me know when you have a moment to test. I've tried it in the past but saw no gains worth noting. I always go back to thinking about it though as LM works so well on other "bare die" applications such as laptops, etc.


----------



## Groove2013

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Haven't compared it to 0901. In my case both 1404 and 0001 can run DR bdie @4300C15.


please, pm it to me here.


----------



## Groove2013

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Haven't compared it to 0901. In my case both 1404 and 0001 can run DR bdie @4300C15.


because if I'm able to 4133 14-15, like I was able to do with BIOS 0901, instead of only 4000 14-15 currently with BIOS 1403, it would be enough for me.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> Unfortunately my KS tops out at max 4000 MHz CL14 gear 1, despite SP 99 P-cores, whereas my K could do 4133 MHz CL14 gear 1, but had SP 89 P-cores.
> 
> Might also be related to current Strix D4 BIOS being worse than BIOS 0901 for max RAM frequency.
> But the problem is that KS can work (properly) only on the current/latest Strix D4 BIOS.
> 
> this is what I'm testing now with Karhu RAM Test using my 2×16 Trident Z Neo 3800 14-16-16-36 1.5 V XMP (January 2021).


CPU IMC, as I've mentioned before. BIOS doesn't change much. After testing four different chips so far on both the Strix and Edge (most BIOSes), it's a real thing.
I've even tested BIOS 0003, which safedisk used before to boot 4,333 CL14. Didn't help.

If your chip can boot 4,300 MHz with any RAM, it will likely be able to do so on basically any BIOS or board. Those chips will do up to 4,200-4,266 MHz stable.
There are chips that are even more tightly binned and can boot beyond 4,300 MHz (likely with much less VCCSA) but those are Top 0.1%.
Unfortunately, the P-core SP provides no guarantee of IMC quality. You have to keep binning and also be willing to settle for a worse P-core SP chip.

This chip I have that can boot 4,300 MHz isn't the absolute best bin. P-core SP of 99 on a KF.
Strangely enough, you are actually _more_ likely to score a nice IMC with a _worse_ P-core SP chip. Ironic how that goes.

I could do 4,000 14-15-15-XX-1T on both 2x8 and 2x16 on all four of the chips, with enough voltage. It's going beyond 4,000 that is a hassle.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> CPU IMC, as I've mentioned before. BIOS doesn't change much. After testing four different chips so far on both the Strix and Edge (most BIOSes), it's a real thing.
> I've even tested BIOS 0003, which safedisk used before to boot 4,333 CL14. Didn't help.
> 
> If your chip can boot 4,300 MHz with any RAM, it will likely be able to do so on basically any BIOS or board. Those chips will do up to 4,200-4,266 MHz stable.
> There are chips that are even more tightly binned and can boot beyond 4,300 MHz (likely with much less VCCSA) but those are Top 0.1%.
> Unfortunately, the P-core SP provides no guarantee of IMC quality. You have to keep binning and also be willing to settle for a worse P-core SP chip.
> 
> This chip I have that can boot 4,300 MHz isn't the absolute best bin. P-core SP of 99 on a KF.
> Strangely enough, you are actually _more_ likely to score a nice IMC with a _worse_ P-core SP chip. Ironic how that goes.
> 
> I could do 4,000 14-15-15-XX-1T on both 2x8 and 2x16 on all four of the chips, with enough voltage. It's going beyond 4,000 that is a hassle.


then you haven't paid attention to what I wrote.

With BIOS 0901 4133 CL14 works, but with 1404 only 4000 CL14 possible. all the hardware is same. just different BIOS versions.
@bscool can confirm that for sure. and not only him.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> then you haven't paid attention to what I wrote.
> 
> With BIOS 0901 4133 CL14 works, but with 1404 only 4000 CL14 possible. all the hardware is same. just different BIOS versions.
> @bscool can confirm that for sure. and not only him.


BIOS 0901 is the best BIOS for K/KF, yes.
However, I have a friend using 1404 and he can boot 4,300 MHz just fine with his P-core 104 KS chip.
Your IMC just isn't strong enough.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> BIOS 0901 is the best BIOS for K/KF, yes.
> However, I have a friend using 1404 and he can boot 4,300 MHz just fine with his P-core 104 KS chip.
> Your IMC just isn't strong enough.


again. on 0901 it worked at 4133 CL14.
just that SP reading is wrong, locked frequency for E-cores and problems with uncore to go past 4.5-4.6 GHz with E-cores off.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> again. on 0901 it worked at 4133 CL14.
> just that SP reading is wrong, locked frequency for E-cores and problems with uncore to go past 4.5-4.6 GHz with E-cores off.


Might be bad training then. Have you locked in stable RTTs yet?
BIOS 1404 boots up to 4,300 MHz just fine, so it shouldn't be a factor.


----------



## Groove2013

I will wait for 13900K. don't want to bin any KS anymore.
4000 CL14 is not what I would have wanted, but it's fine, with 42.3 ns in Aida.

6 MB L3 cache more and improved cores and IMC is better than another KS, trying to do 4133-4300 MHz.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> I will wait for 13900K. don't want to bin any KS anymore.
> 4000 CL14 is not what I would have wanted, but it's fine, with 42.3 ns in Aida.
> 
> 6 MB L3 cache more and improved cores and IMC is better than another KS, trying to do 4133-4300 MHz.


That's fair. And that's a smart decision. The KS is ridiculously overpriced.
I may or may not try out Raptor Lake once it's out; hard to say. I managed to get 4x16 GB working at 4,000 MHz, which was my goal to begin with.
And P-core SP of 99 is not bad for a KF, which will be cooled with a MO-RA.

Currently testing to see how hard I can push these DIMMs on this IMC.


----------



## bscool

Groove2013 said:


> then you haven't paid attention to what I wrote.
> 
> With BIOS 0901 4133 CL14 works, but with 1404 only 4000 CL14 possible. all the hardware is same. just different BIOS versions.
> @bscool can confirm that for sure. and not only him.


I did get 4266c15-16-16 stable with 12900ks on bios 1404. I had to set ODTs for it to boot. I think I set 80/48/40.

I dont have the Strix running right now to check exact setting but from memory I think that is what I used.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

After recovering from mobo flood, all back working. 5.5P 4.4E works again.

Just a random run. Temps average: 80c. Pre-direct die.


----------



## Ichirou

@bscool @mike7877 @Groove2013 @s1rrah @Taraquin @Raphie 
*4x16 GB (64 GB)* Micron B-die @ *4,000 CL14 Gear 1* is fully stable in TM5 and y-cruncher.
Maximum of *1.66V VDIMM, and 1.30V VCCSA.*

(Also, the same kit can boot 4,300 MHz Gear 1.)

I'm currently running anta777 ABSOLUT, but that'll take a million years on 64 GB, so I'll be back later with results.
After that, I'm going to try pushing frequency even higher on CL14. Only max 1.30V VCCSA so far? God damn.

Looking forward to running this under water


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Oh yes I managed to boot and test my ram. Got G-Skill 4x16GB DDR5 6400Mhz CL32 sticks on Z690 Formula and 5600Mhz seems to be stable with all sticks in whilst 5.5 4.4 GHz OC is applied.

Excuse the subtimings, just testing for now.


----------



## jomama22

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Oh yes I managed to boot and test my ram. Got G-Skill 4x16GB DDR5 6400Mhz CL32 sticks on Z690 Formula and 5600Mhz seems to be stable with all sticks in whilst 5.5 4.4 GHz OC is applied.
> 
> Excuse the subtimings, just testing for now.
> View attachment 2561247


I have to ask: why wouldn't you get a 2x23 kit. Definitely cheaper and I imagine much easier to run/get higher clocks out of?


----------



## satinghostrider

Ichirou said:


> BIOS 0901 is the best BIOS for K/KF, yes.
> However, I have a friend using 1404 and he can boot 4,300 MHz just fine with his P-core 104 KS chip.
> Your IMC just isn't strong enough.


I'm on 9902 and flawless so far too. Afraid to try anything newer with all the mixed reviews.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

jomama22 said:


> I have to ask: why wouldn't you get a 2x23 kit. Definitely cheaper and I imagine much easier to run/get higher clocks out of?


Denser sticks are harder to run


----------



## SuperMumrik

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Denser sticks are harder to run


Nope, that's not correct. 2*32GB hynix sticks would be better


----------



## DSHG87

Has anyone here had a 12900KS that has reached 1.5V or more in Windows @ stock?

There were some that had VIDs of up to 1.54V in the BIOS. Were such high values then also displayed in e.g. HWiNFO? Are the values between BIOS and Windows @ stock similar?


----------



## Solohuman

On RKL atm, but thinking of going to ADL in the very near future. I have one specific question to the enthusiasts on here with ADL on DDR4, how high in RAM frequency can one get it stable with gear 2 nowadays? 
I have no interest in going to DDR5 for at least another 12 months atm. 
Thanks in advance!


----------



## bscool

Solohuman said:


> On RKL atm, but thinking of going to ADL in the very near future. I have one specific question to the enthusiasts on here with ADL on DDR4, how high in RAM frequency can one get it stable with gear 2 nowadays?
> I have no interest in going to DDR5 for at least another 12 months atm.
> Thanks in advance!


Depending on Samsung, Hynix, SR or Dr etc I have seen from 4266 to 5333 in gear 2.

Most run gear 1 on ADL since many can run 4000+(4133 to 4266) in gear 1 so latency is around 8 to 10ns lower vs gear 2.


----------



## Solohuman

bscool said:


> Depending on Samsung, Hynix, SR or Dr etc I have seen from 4266 to 5333 in gear 2.
> 
> Most run gear 1 on ADL since many can run 4000+(4133 to 4266) in gear 1 so latency is around 8 to 10ns lower vs gear 2.


Thanks, this is with 32GB kits?


----------



## bscool

Solohuman said:


> Thanks, this is with 32GB kits?


With 32g it depends if hynix, samsung b die etc. From what I have seen b die will do 4266 to 4400 in gear 2. Hynix might do 4600+.

Not many are running gear 2 since such a big hit on latency so not much data.

To run high clocks like 5000+ it will take single rank.

There is a z690 ddr4 thread that has peoples memory OC. I have not seen many gear 2 Karhu/memtest run though [Official] Intel Z690 / DDR4 Daily Memory Overclock


----------



## Ichirou

Solohuman said:


> Thanks, this is with 32GB kits?


For 32 GB, get 2x16 GB Samsung B-die DR and run it in Gear 1.
For more than 32 GB, get 4x16 GB Micron B-die and run it in Gear 1.
For maximum bandwidth, get 5,000+ MHz Hynix DJR and run it in Gear 2.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

SuperMumrik said:


> Nope, that's not correct. 2*32GB hynix sticks would be better


So it's not like DDR4 where 32GB sticks would not OC at all?

I also bought 16GB ones because they're highly binned. If in the future I get quad channel mobo or something I'm ready. Also, 64GB is ok with me for now, matches my laptop.


----------



## bscool

TheNaitsyrk said:


> So it's not like DDR4 where 32GB sticks would not OC at all?
> 
> I also bought 16GB ones because they're highly binned. If in the future I get quad channel mobo or something I'm ready. Also, 64GB is ok with me for now, matches my laptop.


MB topology matter and z690 is daisy chain topology and works best/easiest with 2 sticks. I have seen people running 2x32 at 6000 to 6400.

I dont think I have seen anyone get past 5600 Karuhu/memtest stable with 4x16 and that takes a lot of work and luck. Most are stuck in the 4400 to 5200 range with 4x16 from what I have seen.


----------



## Groove2013

bscool said:


> MB topology matter and z690 is t topology and works best/easiest with 2 sticks. I have seen people running 2x32 at 6000 to 6400.
> 
> I dont think I have seen anyone get past 5600 Karuhu/memtest stable with 4x16 and that takes a lot of work and luck. Most are stuck in the 4400 to 5200 range with 4x16 from what I have seen.


you mean Daisy Chain...


----------



## bscool

Groove2013 said:


> you mean Daisy Chain...


Yeah I edit it


----------



## kaese5128

Falkentyne said:


> Ok that explains a lot.
> Definitely would have saved a lot of time if you had told us at the very beginning you had a ROG Strix and not a maximus.
> The Maximus boards have die sense voltage (accurate to within 9mv of real measured voltage with hardware tools from the VRM).
> 
> Ok so your Strix does not have die sense voltage. You have socket sense so accurate voltage measurements are not possible without probing the board with hardware tools (or using something like Elmor's EVC2SX device, which is beyond my knowledge). In most cases, the vcore you see is going to be above the "True" vcore. Nothing you can do about this.
> 
> Your real voltage under load when you ran Cinebench R23 was probably about 1.208v. That's guessing from my own test.
> 
> Your chip SP is 86. I tested your exact settings at 5.1 ghz on a QS 12900k, and had no problems. However an SP86 CPU "should" be able to pass R23 at 1.350v bios set + LLC5 @ 5.1 ghz, I would "think".
> 
> At 5.2 ghz, with your exact settings, I passed 4 runs, then BSOD on the 5th run. 1.208v load (die sense reading) is too low for 5.2 ghz
> Mine needs about 1.225v-1.234v probably (for 5.2 ghz CB R23), which is probably about bios set-->1.375v set + LLC5.
> 
> First try 1 of 2 things.
> 
> First, try your 1.350v bios set + LLC5 like before, BUT
> In digi+VRM, change "Power phase control to Extreme, Power Duty Control to Extreme, and VRM switching Frequency (spread spectrum)=disabled and switching frequency to 800 khz.
> If 800 khz is not possible, set it to the highest value available.
> 
> Does this help??
> 
> Try 5.1 ghz again (1.350v bios set, LLC5) with the VRM settings I mentioned.
> 
> Do you BSOD?
> 
> If yes...
> 
> Try 1.375v bios set + LLC5 for your 5.1 ghz. This should pass, I hope.


With your suggested digi+VRM settings my 12900k runs now stable on 5.1GHZ (ASUS ROG STRIX E-GAMING). THX !


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

new board finally arrived and had a chance to check out my 12600K! I think I lucked out here as well! 5.5 on the p cores and 4.2 on the e cores! 12600KS anybody? Lol


----------



## matique

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> View attachment 2561320
> new board finally arrived and had a chance to check out my 12600K! I think I lucked out here as well! 5.5 on the p cores and 4.2 on the e cores! 12600KS anybody? Lol


Definitely lucked out man, nice bin right there. My 12900k can't even reliably maintain 8pcore at 5.5


----------



## xarot

SSBrain said:


> On an unrelated note, I can confirm that the CPU appears to works also without ILM, although I haven't observed clearly better temperatures compared to using 1mm washers. This should avoid ILM-caused deformation completely.
> 
> I'm certain the CPU will remain stuck to the cooler (Noctua NH-D15S) and will probably have to be heated up a bit to be removed from it. A hair dryer should be enough.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2560877
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: out of curiosity I tried removing the cooler and of course the CPU got stuck on it. I just had to slide it a bit to take it out, at least with the paste used (fresh Arctic MX-4). Some care needed, though.
> 
> View attachment 2560881



Thanks for sharing, thought of trying this, but then decided to delid my 12900KS. I had the W-3175X and C621 board, actually as crazy it may sound since 3647 socket doesn't have anything to hold the CPU down, if you use a Noctua cooler you install CPU on the backside of the cooler with paste first and screw down everything on the mobo.  So the idea is roughly the same as this just backwards.


----------



## Nizzen

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> View attachment 2561320
> new board finally arrived and had a chance to check out my 12600K! I think I lucked out here as well! 5.5 on the p cores and 4.2 on the e cores! 12600KS anybody? Lol


"Luck" 🤭 

My 12900k is "luck" too 😇


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

New Dark Z690 board...


----------



## david12900k

12900KS on Z690 Apex Bios 1403
Just got my Thermal Grizzly Contact frame. Seems to have dropped general temps 2-3 degrees C, but dropped my core 5 and 6 temps by ~7 C each. I have been running 5.4 all core 4.3 e cores at 1.215 v under load. Even with the temp drop, I still cannot seem to stabilize 5.5 all core.
Im running LLC7 and stepped up the manually set core voltage in bios from 1.34 (1.255v under load in windows) up to 1.39 v (1.323v under load in windows).
I even tried disabling E cores and still cannot get 5.5 all core stable.
Maybe my chip just cant do 5.5 all core

If there are any specific settings you guys have found to try to stabilize this, let me know

Edit: Disabling 2 P cores (letting ASUS BIOS decide which ones to disable allows me to pass 30 minutes of C23, so maybe its just 1 or 2 of my cores that dont like 5.5 GHz? Its hard to tell if its the bad cores being disabled or the fact that now power is only going to 6 vs 8 cores thats letting it pass)


----------



## Ichirou

It almost kind of seems like direct die might not even be necessary if you have a relidded IHS on liquid metal and one of those custom contact frames.

Sure, you might be able to do -17C with LM and direct die, but when you can do around -12 to -15C with the contact frame (YMMV), the difference in cost makes up for it.
Plus, there's no knowing how good or bad Supercool's direct die waterblock is compared to the tried and tested competition, so a good waterblock making perfect contact with the IHS might even bridge that gap some more.

I'm not saying that direct die is worse; I'm just saying that the gains from it compared to the contact frame with a good CPU waterblock would likely be very minor.
I guess at this point in time, anyone who doesn't want to rely on the proprietary direct die block by Supercool should use the custom contact frame.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

Nizzen said:


> "Luck" 🤭
> 
> My 12900k is "luck" too 😇


Well it ain't anything but luck lol. I bought 1 chip at my local best buy since I saw 1 sitting on the shelf. Decided on a whim to buy it! Pretty happy I did lol


----------



## Arni90

TheNaitsyrk said:


> So it's not like DDR4 where 32GB sticks would not OC at all?
> 
> I also bought 16GB ones because they're highly binned. If in the future I get quad channel mobo or something I'm ready. Also, 64GB is ok with me for now, matches my laptop.


If you have a 4 DIMM Z690 board, 2 DIMM slots are there for looks, the other 2 are used for memory.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

david12900k said:


> 12900KS on Z690 Apex Bios 1403
> Just got my Thermal Grizzly Contact frame. Seems to have dropped general temps 2-3 degrees C, but dropped my core 5 and 6 temps by ~7 C each. I have been running 5.4 all core 4.3 e cores at 1.215 v under load. Even with the temp drop, I still cannot seem to stabilize 5.5 all core.
> Im running LLC7 and stepped up the manually set core voltage in bios from 1.34 (1.255v under load in windows) up to 1.39 v (1.323v under load in windows).
> I even tried disabling E cores and still cannot get 5.5 all core stable.
> Maybe my chip just cant do 5.5 all core
> 
> If there are any specific settings you guys have found to try to stabilize this, let me know
> 
> Edit: Disabling 2 P cores (letting ASUS BIOS decide which ones to disable allows me to pass 30 minutes of C23, so maybe its just 1 or 2 of my cores that dont like 5.5 GHz? Its hard to tell if its the bad cores being disabled or the fact that now power is only going to 6 vs 8 cores thats letting it pass)


Try tightening your LLC for a bit less droop. And try upping your vrm switching frequency. I know llc on the dark board makes a difference in terms of stability and voltage needed. I can't imagine it wouldn't make a difference on the Asus board.


----------



## Gadfly

MrTOOSHORT said:


> New Dark Z690 board...
> 
> View attachment 2561337


nice, but don’t bother with 2T. The DKP runs 1T so well there is no point in running 2T.

set CPU vddq to 1.35v, and send pmic turbo to mode 4.


----------



## Gadfly

david12900k said:


> 12900KS on Z690 Apex Bios 1403
> Just got my Thermal Grizzly Contact frame. Seems to have dropped general temps 2-3 degrees C, but dropped my core 5 and 6 temps by ~7 C each. I have been running 5.4 all core 4.3 e cores at 1.215 v under load. Even with the temp drop, I still cannot seem to stabilize 5.5 all core.
> Im running LLC7 and stepped up the manually set core voltage in bios from 1.34 (1.255v under load in windows) up to 1.39 v (1.323v under load in windows).
> I even tried disabling E cores and still cannot get 5.5 all core stable.
> Maybe my chip just cant do 5.5 all core
> 
> If there are any specific settings you guys have found to try to stabilize this, let me know
> 
> Edit: Disabling 2 P cores (letting ASUS BIOS decide which ones to disable allows me to pass 30 minutes of C23, so maybe its just 1 or 2 of my cores that dont like 5.5 GHz? Its hard to tell if its the bad cores being disabled or the fact that now power is only going to 6 vs 8 cores thats letting it pass)


Just need more voltage, lots of chips need more than 1.32v on ambient to run 5.5ghz


----------



## jomama22

Gadfly said:


> nice, but don’t bother with 2T. The DKP runs 1T so well there is no point in running 2T.
> 
> set CPU vddq to 1.35v, and send pmic turbo to mode 4.


I found CPU vddq needs to be set quite low for 7000, 1.25v to be precise. Testing 7100 now and the sweet spot is 1.325.

Going to high just causes instability.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Thanks for the tips. I have to say this board is great. Even just the boot up in 5 secs is great. Apex, like 25-30 seconds.


----------



## Ichirou

*4,133 MHz CL14 1T Gear 1 stabilized with 4x16 GB (64 GB) Micron B-die. ~1.66V VDIMM and 1.34V VCCSA.*
44.7ns latency when run at 48x cache.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

The little 12600K that could! Managed to get the e cores to pass at 4.3! Who says you cant OC on a budget?


----------



## Gadfly

jomama22 said:


> I found CPU vddq needs to be set quite low for 7000, 1.25v to be precise. Testing 7100 now and the sweet spot is 1.325.
> 
> Going to high just causes instability.


it also depends on what you have the pmic turbo mode set at, for mode 4, it normally won’t even post below 1.33v.

there is zero documentation on what those turbo modes do, just that mode 4 works really well on Hynix.


----------



## jomama22

Gadfly said:


> it also depends on what you have the pmic turbo mode set at, for mode 4, it normally won’t even post below 1.33v.
> 
> there is zero documentation on what those turbo modes do, just that mode 4 works really well on Hynix.


Turbo mode 4 locks vddq CPU at 1.35 and higher.

Don't use the turbo modes at these lower frequencies. It's a genuine waste and makes your life harder. I didn't use any for my 7000.


----------



## VGeorge

Falkentyne said:


> Using a single small drop in each corner is enough to prevent the IHS from moving and shifting around, while being little enough to not create any extra height off the core to IHS contact, and it makes future removal with your fingers easy (sometimes you find that your LM application isn't ideal, like your core min and max temp deltas from coldest to hottest core is too great or has gotten worse with time). It's important to use small drops, because RTV expands when it dries, which many people may not be aware of. Never use a full ring of it like the black intel sealant, etc.
> 
> One thing I did to try to preserve LM durability over time is to use a 1500 grit dry sandpaper and wipe the underside of the IHS and the top of the core with it with a bunch of strokes, to make the surface less smooth (make sure you fully clean the surface after doing this, BEFORE applying LM!!). Liquid metal actually hates smooth surfaces. It adheres better to surfaces that have a slight roughness to it, as then the LM can stick into the microvalleys better. You can test this out on any metal spare (non aluminum) surface by testing a fully polished versus a 'buffed' surface of the same item, then drop a dab of liquid metal (after cleaning the buffed surface of course!), and try spreading it around with a lint free wiper (lip gloss applicators are GREAT for spreading LM). https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085XXXPMM/
> 
> You'll notice that on the buffed surface, LM will spread almost effortlessly. On the fully polished surface, it will be very difficult to get LM to "wet" the surface, and even after it eventually starts wetting, you may see 'dry spots' as the LM starts sticking to itself rather than the surface! Those "dry spots" that appear on fully polished surfaces are what causes your core temp deltas to skyrocket with time. I tested this extensively with a delidded and resealed 9900k, so I'm speaking from experience.
> 
> Hope that makes sense.


Thanks so much for the advice! You convinced me lol
I guess I'll be buying 1500 grit sandpaper and RTV silicone


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ladies and gents, mostly gents.

I can wholeheartedly tell you something you already knew. 2 extra sticks of ram in my PC worked, yes. However, PC could hardly tell the difference between iGPU and GPU. Took two off and back to normal.

On the other hand, direct die is installed. And temps dropped massively: 70c max 1 core rest 60-65c.

4.4Ghz E cores and 5.5Ghz P cores.

Trying for 5.6 now.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Although, 5.6 is a no no.
Sadly.

Tried LLC6 and LLC7 and 1.4V Die and Socket sense and doesn't pass. 

Not bad at 5.5Ghz though below 70c.


----------



## Groove2013

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Although, 5.6 is a no no.
> Sadly.
> 
> Tried LLC6 and LLC7 and 1.4V Die and Socket sense and doesn't pass.
> 
> Not bad at 5.5Ghz though below 70c.


MO-RA3 rad?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Groove2013 said:


> MO-RA3 rad?


This:
When you zoom in you can see package temperature at R23 loop on the USB C display. Bios voltage 1.38V, Die Sense in Windows shows as 1.305V.


----------



## sugi0lover

TheNaitsyrk said:


> View attachment 2561571
> 
> Ladies and gents, mostly gents.
> 
> I can wholeheartedly tell you something you already knew. 2 extra sticks of ram in my PC worked, yes. However, PC could hardly tell the difference between iGPU and GPU. Took two off and back to normal.
> 
> On the other hand, direct die is installed. And temps dropped massively: 70c max 1 core rest 60-65c.
> 
> 4.4Ghz E cores and 5.5Ghz P cores.
> 
> Trying for 5.6 now.
> View attachment 2561572
> 
> View attachment 2561570
> 
> View attachment 2561569


Thanks for sharing! My direct die kit just got shipped.
Anyway, I thought direct die kit has its own frame, but it seems like I need the original frame as well. Is this right?


----------



## jomama22

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for sharing! My direct die kit just got shipped.
> Anyway, I thought direct die kit has its own frame, but it seems like I need the original frame as well. Is this right?


It just uses the stock frame. Can't use aftermarket frames with it.


----------



## matique

TheNaitsyrk said:


> This:
> When you zoom in you can see package temperature at R23 loop on the USB C display. Bios voltage 1.38V, Die Sense in Windows shows as 1.305V.
> View attachment 2561583
> View attachment 2561584


It's so ridiculous but i love it. It's like trying to summon an OC god. Might as well watercool that ram too!


----------



## Agent-A01

david12900k said:


> Just got my Thermal Grizzly Contact frame.


Where did you buy it?


----------



## call303

TheNaitsyrk said:


> This:
> When you zoom in you can see package temperature at R23 loop on the USB C display. Bios voltage 1.38V, Die Sense in Windows shows as 1.305V.


I really thought i had seen it all, until i saw this. Is this really a cascade of 10 radiators ? are they actively cooled ? what make are they? 
what are those wired clamps attached to the two outmost rads? PSU for fans?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

call303 said:


> I really thought i had seen it all, until i saw this. Is this really a cascade of 10 radiators ? are they actively cooled ? what make are they?
> what are those wired clamps attached to the two outmost rads? PSU for fans?


Basically I used tablet gooseneck holders to cool the entire mobo area. They're 2x 140mm 3000 RPM Noctua fans.

There's two fans behind ram blowing onto the RAM as well, so doesn't really need active cooling it's got plenty of airflow.


sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for sharing! My direct die kit just got shipped.
> Anyway, I thought direct die kit has its own frame, but it seems like I need the original frame as well. Is this right?


No worries, I can defo daily drive 5.5Ghz and 4.4Ghz OC without a sweat. Yesterday it passed 2x R23 30min runs without a sweat.

I will also say that it also uses less wattage now, with Optimus V2 block it was using 330W to be stable and now only 285W.

Sad it can't do 5.6 or 5.7 but obviously, maybe I can cram more voltage or something along the lines again and keep trying.


matique said:


> It's so ridiculous but i love it. It's like trying to summon an OC god. Might as well watercool that ram too!


There is 45 fans at the back of these rads, all 3000 RPM Noctua industrials.

The rads are EK 480mm XE rads 60mm thick (x8) and two are 240mm XE rads 60mm thick also (2x)
10L of coolant, 5L per loop.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for sharing! My direct die kit just got shipped.
> Anyway, I thought direct die kit has its own frame, but it seems like I need the original frame as well. Is this right?


Everything you need comes with the kit. The black frame is literally just RGB and is not essential.


----------



## Gadfly

jomama22 said:


> Turbo mode 4 locks vddq CPU at 1.35 and higher.
> 
> Don't use the turbo modes at these lower frequencies. It's a genuine waste and makes your life harder. I didn't use any for my 7000.


I will check it out. Personally I have not had any issues at 7000-7200 1T with cpu vddq at 1.35v and mode 4.

i have not tried out any higher speeds (memory on air) I am running 7000C32 at 1.54v Vdd, 1.52v vddq, 1.35v cpu vddq, and 1.55v vdd2; hoping I can get 7200 1T stable

I’ll turn off mode 4 and see if I can lower CPU VDDQ. Hopefully that will also allow me to lower Mem VDD/VDDQ further.


----------



## Nizzen

Agent-A01 said:


> Where did you buy it?


I bought mine from Overclockers.co.uk


----------



## Gadfly

Nizzen said:


> I bought mine from Overclockers.co.uk


got mine at titan rig, it arrived on Thursday, saw 2-4’C improvement overall, but -8’C on the hottest 2 cores.

I am pretty happy with that.


----------



## Ichirou

*4,133 MHz CL14 1T Gear 1 @ 4x16 GB (64 GB) is now TM5 ABSOLUT stable with 1.61V VDIMM and 1.34V VCCSA (set in BIOS)*
The PC seems to be receptive to 4,200 CL14 1T, so I will be trying to stabilize that as well.


----------



## Agent-A01

Nizzen said:


> I bought mine from Overclockers.co.uk


Not many options in the states unfortunately. Can't find any 



Gadfly said:


> got mine at titan rig, it arrived on Thursday, saw 2-4’C improvement overall, but -8’C on the hottest 2 cores.
> 
> I am pretty happy with that.


I've been checking them every couple days. Stock is always = 0.


----------



## Ichirou

Agent-A01 said:


> Not many options in the states unfortunately. Can't find any
> 
> 
> 
> I've been checking them every couple days. Stock is always = 0.


Just buy the Thermalright bracket off of AliExpress. It's the exact same thing.


----------



## Agent-A01

Ichirou said:


> Just buy the Thermalright bracket off of AliExpress. It's the exact same thing.


I've seen 2 reviews so far that shown it hasn't helped at all in temps. Fluke? Who knows but I'll wait for more data or just buy the thermal grizzly one.


----------



## david12900k

Agent-A01 said:


> I've seen 2 reviews so far that shown it hasn't helped at all in temps. Fluke? Who knows but I'll wait for more data or just buy the thermal grizzly one.


I just did my Thermal Grizzly Contact Frame on my 12900ks. Around 7C drop on my hottest core, and 2-3C drop in over all package temps


----------



## Ichirou

Agent-A01 said:


> I've seen 2 reviews so far that shown it hasn't helped at all in temps. Fluke? Who knows but I'll wait for more data or just buy the thermal grizzly one.


Even der8auer found with the Thermal Grizzly that it's not a guaranteed drop. It depends entirely on how good or bad your IHS is.
A friend of mine managed to drop Vcore by 0.04V and remain stable on the exact same settings (on 55x/51x P-core/ring) just by using the Thermalright bracket.


----------



## z390e

TheNaitsyrk said:


> There is 45 fans at the back of these rads, all 3000 RPM Noctua industrials.


The best part that shows the commitment.


----------



## Gadfly

david12900k said:


> I just did my Thermal Grizzly Contact Frame on my 12900ks. Around 7C drop on my hottest core, and 2-3C drop in over all package temps


pretty much identical to my results.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Temps are lower on the Dark vs Apex. I did the washer mod on the Apex, not on the Dark. 5.3GHz on the Dark, around 82'C load running y-cruncher. Apex, would be just over 100'C.

Not sure if the 90' turn of the socket helps on the Dark vs traditional LGA sockets.


----------



## sugi0lover

Agent-A01 said:


> I've seen 2 reviews so far that shown it hasn't helped at all in temps. Fluke? Who knows but I'll wait for more data or just buy the thermal grizzly one.


In Korea, lots of people have bought Thermalright frame and reivewed it. More than 20 reviews show good results.


----------



## Ichirou

*4,200 CL14 1T Gear 1 stabilized with 4x16 GB (64 GB) Micron B-die at 1.64V VDIMM and 1.40V VCCSA.*

But not too happy about the AIDA results. Either there's insane diminishing returns, or I had to loosen a few timings that really hurt bandwidth.
44.4ns over 44.7ns latency... And the RWC speeds seem to be within margin of error.
Doesn't make sense to daily this config over the 4,133 MHz one, especially with the increased VCCSA. But just throwing it out there that it is possible.

I did find out that I can pass y-cruncher 2.5b at 51/48 P-core/Cache with 1.27V VDIMM though. Not the greatest but not the worst.
I think I'm done for now. Not even going to waste time testing ABSOLUT, since it's just a sidegrade. Don't feel compelled to push the IMC or RAM any harder.


----------



## owikh84

owikh84 said:


> I did not see any improvement with washer mod or anti bend bracket (LZMod from Taobao China).
> 
> View attachment 2559368
> 
> 
> View attachment 2559367
> 
> 
> View attachment 2559363


Previously the same anti-bend frame (LZmod from Taobao China) was tested on my ITX rig powered by 12900K + Z690I Unify + EK-Elite AIO 360mm. Again, I did not see any thermal impact on my 12900KS + Z690 Hero + custom loop in my open-air test bench either. In my opinion, the bracket might help in preventing the IHS from bending, but it does not really provide any improvement on my CPU temps.










ILM - R23 MT 29,835; CPU package 237.523w
LZmod Bracket - R23 MT 29,826; CPU package 237.135w


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

z390e said:


> The best part that shows the commitment.


Cooling is like beyond amazing, but the power consumption isn't. At idle it's like 300W at load it's 550-600W (45 fans use about 200W constantly), if GPU was also full at 100%, then around 1200W.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

matique said:


> Even with quick disconnects it will not help. After disconnecting with qdc, there will still be water in the block. When you remove the block the water will still come out and leak onto mobo. Only way is to remove the liquid all the way I think.


Actually not true, I can take the mobo out, remove the quick connect and make it drain in the sink, then remove it safely. The only tricky part is having mobo upside down above the sink to drain it, but shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

sugi0lover said:


> I put 1.44v at bios (llc7), so the load voltage should be below 1.40v.


I will try this for my CPU now that it's direct die. What mobo you using?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

jomama22 said:


> 5.6/4.4/47 run without hwinfo open:
> View attachment 2560716


What's the voltage? / Chip SP?


----------



## jomama22

TheNaitsyrk said:


> What's the voltage? / Chip SP?


For 1hr stable in R23:








Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion


New 12900KS (batch V150J405) 5.3GHz 1.2v load:




www.overclock.net













Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion


Same cpu as above 5.6/4.4/46: 4.5 on the ecores is close, but got error when running (literally first time i'v turned them on) so 4.4 it is. Maybe could go higher with cache but just set it to 46 to see. ~400w total. P-core temps don't really change with E-cores. Same voltage as last post.




www.overclock.net





Ring runs stable at 47, just didn't have it set to that above.

For just min voltage run:








Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion


Same cpu as above 5.6/4.4/46: 4.5 on the ecores is close, but got error when running (literally first time i'v turned them on) so 4.4 it is. Maybe could go higher with cache but just set it to 46 to see. ~400w total. P-core temps don't really change with E-cores. Same voltage as last post.




www.overclock.net





Apparently, the Apex reports ~30mv less with it's die sense than compared to the VR OUT on the kingpin for the same clocks/temps (I did not test this myself but other users reported/have noted it), so take that as you will.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

jomama22 said:


> For 1hr stable in R23:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion
> 
> 
> New 12900KS (batch V150J405) 5.3GHz 1.2v load:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion
> 
> 
> Same cpu as above 5.6/4.4/46: 4.5 on the ecores is close, but got error when running (literally first time i'v turned them on) so 4.4 it is. Maybe could go higher with cache but just set it to 46 to see. ~400w total. P-core temps don't really change with E-cores. Same voltage as last post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ring runs stable at 47, just didn't have it set to that above.
> 
> For just min voltage run:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion
> 
> 
> Same cpu as above 5.6/4.4/46: 4.5 on the ecores is close, but got error when running (literally first time i'v turned them on) so 4.4 it is. Maybe could go higher with cache but just set it to 46 to see. ~400w total. P-core temps don't really change with E-cores. Same voltage as last post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently, the Apex reports ~30mv less with it's die sense than compared to the VR OUT on the kingpin for the same clocks/temps (I did not test this myself but other users reported/have noted it), so take that as you will.


Last one, what's the LLC? I assume LLC8 because 375W.


----------



## jomama22

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Last one, what's the LLC? I assume LLC8 because 375W.


I'm on a kingpin and using -25% with vcore set at 1.4v (for the full r23 stable run), which is basically 0 droop when comparing what I set and what I get for vcore, but VR OUT droops to 1.371v. The min voltage run was set with 1.36v.

Also, LLC doesn't affect power at all. It only affects the load voltage compared to the set voltage by having different amounts of voltage droop. More droop just helps with transients in the voltage in a high-to-low or low-to-high load scenario.

I can set a much higher droop LLC, use a higher set voltage, and if matching the load voltage, will have the exact same power output. I personally don't do this because I don't really feel like having 1.45v going through the CPU at idle and during most gaming (as I run a very GPU bound setup).

I will also add, generally speaking, a higher droop LLC (on an apex the lower the LLC number, the higher the droop) will allow for lower load voltage for a given clock because of the reduction in the transient spikes mentioned above. The transients on a low-to-high load scenario could have voltage falling below a stable voltage, resulting in a crash. Because of the reduction in the min and max voltage of the transients, you can help stabilize a given clock at a lower load voltage.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

jomama22 said:


> I'm on a kingpin and using -25% with vcore set at 1.4v (for the full r23 stable run), which is basically 0 droop when comparing what I set and what I get for vcore, but VR OUT droops to 1.371v. The min voltage run was set with 1.36v.
> 
> Also, LLC doesn't affect power at all. It only affects the load voltage compared to the set voltage by having different amounts of voltage droop. More droop just helps with transients in the voltage in a high-to-low or low-to-high load scenario.
> 
> I can set a much higher droop LLC, use a higher set voltage, and if matching the load voltage, will have the exact same power output. I personally don't do this because I don't really feel like having 1.45v going through the CPU at idle and during most gaming (as I run a very GPU bound setup).
> 
> I will also add, generally speaking, a higher droop LLC (on an apex the lower the LLC number, the higher the droop) will allow for lower load voltage for a given clock because of the reduction in the transient spikes mentioned above. The transients on a low-to-high load scenario could have voltage falling below a stable voltage, resulting in a crash. Because of the reduction in the min and max voltage of the transients, you can help stabilize a given clock at a lower load voltage.


I see, but what's your LLC equivalent to? If I stuck LLC7 1.44V I won't kill my chip right? Slight droop will make it go to 1.4V I think
Or LLC8 and 1.4V exactly to see if I can attempt 5.6.


----------



## SSBrain

Since when, by the way, CB23 became a standard for system stability? I find that overclock settings that appear to be stable with it (or with similar workloads like Blender 3D) cannot really be considered fully stable everywhere else.


----------



## jomama22

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I see, but what's your LLC equivalent to? If I stuck LLC7 1.44V I won't kill my chip right? Slight droop will make it go to 1.4V I think
> Or LLC8 and 1.4V exactly to see if I can attempt 5.6.


I mean, the chip hasn't been out long enough for anyone to know at what voltage degradation begins to take it's toll. 1.44v at idle is probably fine (and I believe is within what Intel uses at stock anyway, would have to check, easy enough to do). 

It's really just up to you with what you are comfortable with. I just have my LLC set the way I do because it works for me. The kingpin LLC I'm using is probably llc7 if I had to guess.


----------



## matique

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Actually not true, I can take the mobo out, remove the quick connect and make it drain in the sink, then remove it safely. The only tricky part is having mobo upside down above the sink to drain it, but shouldn't be an issue.


hence why i said liquid has to be fully removed from the block _(you needing to drain it upside down in the sink), _before you remove the block_. _Other than this inconvenience the direct die kit is pretty alright and gives great temps it seems.


----------



## matique

SSBrain said:


> Since when, by the way, CB23 became a standard for system stability? I find that overclock settings that appear to be stable with it (or with similar workloads like Blender 3D) cannot really be considered fully stable everywhere else.


Don't think anyone uses r23 as a stability benchmark... I do occt + ycruncher + strenuous cpu games like apex/warzone to make sure the CPU is up to par.


----------



## Lord Alzov

Full stable 5400 mhz P core all stress. 12900KF sp93
A little bit enthusiasm
To begin with, I scalped the processor. Intel solder does crookedly and with a margin, part of the solder is on the textolite.








Next, I dissolved the solder from the crystal, knowing that the solder is Indium-based, I dropped a mixture of galium-indium-tin (it's the same LM) into it. After that, I polished the crystal with a polish from CYBERBLOOD. SMD elements were varnished with heat-resistant varnish.








Next, it was necessary to level and polish the lid, used sharpening stones for knives, having cut 400-1000-6000, at the end he polished with a polish. The lid is curved, here is a photo of the beginning of grinding, it can be seen that the edges are filled up, where the socket frame clamps the processor.








Leveled it from the top, and then from the bottom, an intermediate option before polishing and coating silver-nickel-indium.








Then, with the help of BLACK MAMBA from cyberblood, I covered the lid with a silver-nickel-indium alloy. It turned out very carefully, then I cleaned off the sealant, applied the press under and on the lid, and that's it.
















VIDEO


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/868106796915630101/975357350263271424/IMG_1075.mov


----------



## jomama22

SSBrain said:


> Since when, by the way, CB23 became a standard for system stability? I find that overclock settings that appear to be stable with it (or with similar workloads like Blender 3D) cannot really be considered fully stable everywhere else.


Depends on your use case. I don't do any demanding workloads except for gaming and thus, looping r23 hasn't been an issue for me. Definitely not what I would use for critical work environments by any means. If you have situations that necessitate higher stability, then by all means using something more sever. 

What works for some doesn't work for everyone. I have no need to run prime95 small fft with huge workgroups. If I were to encounter a crash in something, then I'll bump the voltage up a bit and go from there.


----------



## Ketku-

What do you think should be changed to my 12900K (P95 E65) to 12900KS?

I haven't tried to overclock with my Apex yet, but honest opinion does it make sense to switch to a KS model for my K?

Money doesn’t matter because this is a pure hobby for me and a joy to build.


----------



## Nizzen

Ketku- said:


> What do you think should be changed to my 12900K (P95 E65) to 12900KS?
> 
> I haven't tried to overclock with my Apex yet, but honest opinion does it make sense to switch to a KS model for my K?
> 
> Money doesn’t matter because this is a pure hobby for me and a joy to build.


Performance in games is in the memory performance, so run "stock" cpu and maximum memory overclock 

With 5.4 all core OC with 12900k I got 35% more performance in Battlefield 2042 with 7000c30 tweaked VS 4800mhz XMP ( Dell green Hynix 4800 2x16 ddr5)

35% is like 3-4 cpu generations in gaming performance


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I see, but what's your LLC equivalent to? If I stuck LLC7 1.44V I won't kill my chip right? Slight droop will make it go to 1.4V I think
> Or LLC8 and 1.4V exactly to see if I can attempt 5.6.


The age-old consensus has always been to stay under 1.40V on load for longevity.
That could probably be stretched up to 1.45V with a strong water loop, but even then, you're playing with fire.
If you value your chip, don't try to daily high voltages. Only bench.


----------



## Ketku-

Nizzen said:


> Performance in games is in the memory performance, so run "stock" cpu and maximum memory overclock
> 
> With 5.4 all core OC with 12900k I got 35% more performance in Battlefield 2042 with 7000c30 tweaked VS 4800mhz XMP ( Dell green Hynix 4800 2x16 ddr5)
> 
> 35% is like 3-4 cpu generations in gaming performance


So you are that mind, not buying KS?


----------



## Nizzen

Ketku- said:


> So you are that mind, not buying KS?


Yes! Normal K will be more worth used if you are selling it due to AVX 512 support 
13900k "soon"


----------



## Agent-A01

sugi0lover said:


> In Korea, lots of people have bought Thermalright frame and reivewed it. More than 20 reviews show good results.


Links? I can use google translate


----------



## Ketku-

Nizzen said:


> Yes! Normal K will be more worth used if you are selling it due to AVX 512 support
> 13900k "soon"


But mate, KS is maybe better stock better than my K


----------



## Ichirou

Ketku- said:


> What do you think should be changed to my 12900K (P95 E65) to 12900KS?
> 
> I haven't tried to overclock with my Apex yet, but honest opinion does it make sense to switch to a KS model for my K?
> 
> Money doesn’t matter because this is a pure hobby for me and a joy to build.


Honestly, I'd test the IMC on that chip before swapping it out for a KS.
If it has a very strong IMC (boots 4,300+ Gear 1 on DDR4 or 7,000+ on DDR5), I'd just keep it and clock it higher, with water cooling.


----------



## Ketku-

Ichirou said:


> Honestly, I'd test the IMC on that chip before swapping it out for a KS.
> If it has a very strong IMC (boots 4,300+ Gear 1 on DDR4 or 7,000+ on DDR5), I'd just keep it and clock it higher, with water cooling.


Yea, i belive it. My pc is "high end" custom loop  So no problem with water temps or others..
All water cooled, rams too. So what you prefer? My chip P95 E65 or try luck and buy 1 KS + Thermal Grizzly CPU Frame?
Here in finland are in stock, so few day and get it them home.


----------



## Ichirou

Ketku- said:


> Yea, i belive it. My pc is "high end" custom loop  So no problem with water temps or others..
> All water cooled, rams too. So what you prefer? My chip P95 E65 or try luck and buy 1 KS + Thermal Grizzly CPU Frame?
> Here in finland are in stock, so few day and get it them home.


As I said, test the IMC first. If you can boot over 4,300 MHz Gear 1 on DDR4 or 7,000+ MHz on DDR5, I'd say keep it and push it harder.
If not, then swap it out.


----------



## Ketku-

Ichirou said:


> As I said, test the IMC first. If you can boot over 4,300 MHz Gear 1 on DDR4 or 7,000+ MHz on DDR5, I'd say keep it and push it harder.
> If not, then swap it out.


Okey mate, what timings best way test it staight? Mean the head timings. 

G.skill sk hynix 6400 32-39-39-102 is the base XMP.


----------



## Ichirou

Ketku- said:


> Okey mate, what timings best way test it staight? Mean the head timings.
> 
> G.skill sk hynix 6400 32-39-39-102 is the base XMP.


7,000 MHz with tCL at 30; rest can be loose for now


----------



## Ketku-

Ichirou said:


> 7,000 MHz with tCL at 30; rest can be loose for now


Thank you mate.  Need tommorrow or in near days test it.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> *4,133 MHz CL14 1T Gear 1 @ 4x16 GB (64 GB) is now TM5 ABSOLUT stable with 1.61V VDIMM and 1.34V VCCSA (set in BIOS)*
> The PC seems to be receptive to 4,200 CL14 1T, so I will be trying to stabilize that as well.


how is 1T possible, because SR sticks, although 2 of them per channel?
and also how is it possible to do 4133 with 4 sticks despite Daisy Chain?

or is it all possible due to higher RCD and RP?

if 4 sticks really work well, despite Daisy Chain, then I could buy 4 SR sticks, since they tolerate higher voltage than DR and try my luck as well.


----------



## Ketku-

What are safe/max daily voltages IMC, VCCSA, IVR TX VDDQ, VDD and VDDQ?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

I can say though that at the very least 5.50Ghz passes fine, score should be higher it's Windows 11.









Also, if someone is interested, I can trade my chip + 2x16GB of GSkill 6400 CL32 Hynix RAM for a chip that can do 5.6. longshot but maybe someone will accept haha


----------



## Nizzen

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I can say though that at the very least 5.50Ghz passes fine, score should be higher it's Windows 11.
> View attachment 2561783
> 
> 
> Also, if someone is interested, I can trade my chip + 2x16GB of GSkill 6400 CL32 Hynix RAM for a chip that can do 5.6. longshot but maybe someone will accept haha


My old 10900k with Supercool direct die block:
Haven't seen many done 5600mhz on water with 10900k. Supercool unlocked the average chip. SP 87


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> how is 1T possible, because SR sticks, although 2 of them per channel?
> and also how is it possible to do 4133 with 4 sticks despite Daisy Chain?
> 
> or is it all possible due to higher RCD and RP?
> 
> if 4 sticks really work well, despite Daisy Chain, then I could buy 4 SR sticks, since they tolerate higher voltage than DR and try my luck as well.


It's more of a Micron B-die specific thing. That particular DDR4 die is the least taxing on the IMC by far.
I've already tried 4x8 GB Samsung B-die SR already; didn't get very far with it (4,000 MHz 16-18-18-XX stable...)
No other die will come close to what Micron B-die 16 GB DIMMs can achieve for high capacity *and *strong performance. 64 GB is ridiculous with these settings.

Unfortunately, no Micron B-die 4x16 GB kits exist anymore. You have to buy two sets of 2x16 GB Micron B-die. From Crucial or Corsair.
In store would be better, since you can make sure the two kits are from the same batch to improve compatibility.
If you only need 2x16 GB, I am confident you would be able to run 4,200-4,300 MHz CL14-15 1T stable with enough VDIMM on Micron B-die, even if your IMC is weak.

4,200 CL14 1T is "stable" as well, but I'm experiencing bootable VDIMM limitations. Might be a BIOS issue on the MSI. Tried latest so far, and no change.


----------



## Groove2013

more than 47 ns in Aida is a little bit too much for me.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> more than 47 ns in Aida is a little bit too much for me.


I got 44.4ns with 48x cache. If I go with 40x cache, it's more like 46.7ns.

Update: Managed to figure out why I was getting bad scores at 4,200 CL14. Was a VDIMM issue on boot. Fixed and going to push these babies further now.
Comparison of scores below. Managed to boost bandwidth by about 1,000 MB/s across the board.
Latency isn't accurate because the cache is running at 47x instead of 48x, and tRCD and tRP were raised by +1.


----------



## Nizzen

Testing Adaptive "voltage" +1 on adaptive v-core

Watertemp is about dimm temperature. Using grizzly contact frame.
Not delidded cpu.

Load was looping CB 23.


----------



## sugi0lover

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I will try this for my CPU now that it's direct die. What mobo you using?


Apex


Agent-A01 said:


> Links? I can use google translate











쿨엔조이,쿨앤조이 coolenjoy, cooln, 쿨엔, 검은동네


pc,컴퓨터, 하드웨어,CPU오버클럭,VGA쿨러,오버클럭,PC튜닝,케이스튜닝,cpu,vga



coolenjoy.net












퀘이사존


퀘이사존은 하드웨어, 게임, 취미 활동을 모두 아우르는 종합 커뮤니티를 표방합니다.




quasarzone.com


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

I don't know... 
I said I would stop chasing CPUs once I achieved 5.5Ghz.

Now that I did (and it's not high voltage to achieve with low temps), I'm still looking for another that can do 5.6Ghz and I can't stop. 

Ugh, should I just call it quits and be happy with something that almost does 5.6Ghz? 

Or be happy with it and wait for 13th gen?

I assume mobos will be same.


----------



## ViTosS

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I can say though that at the very least 5.50Ghz passes fine, score should be higher it's Windows 11.
> View attachment 2561783
> 
> 
> Also, if someone is interested, I can trade my chip + 2x16GB of GSkill 6400 CL32 Hynix RAM for a chip that can do 5.6. longshot but maybe someone will accept haha


Nice, does anyone know why the core #1 always use to be way lower temperature than the others? It seems like a common thing I've seen when people with 12900k post their core by core temperatures when running some stress test, and even going direct die doesn't seem to ''solve'' that, so it's not a problem of bad solder or IHS not 100% flat surface etc.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

ViTosS said:


> Nice, does anyone know why the core #1 always use to be way lower temperature than the others? It seems like a common thing I've seen when people with 12900k post their core by core temperatures when running some stress test, and even going direct die doesn't seem to ''solve'' that, so it's not a problem of bad solder or IHS not 100% flat surface etc.


Good question.


----------



## DSHG87

Does Asus OCTVB work with 12600K?


----------



## sugi0lover

TheNaitsyrk said:


> View attachment 2561571
> 
> Ladies and gents, mostly gents.
> 
> I can wholeheartedly tell you something you already knew. 2 extra sticks of ram in my PC worked, yes. However, PC could hardly tell the difference between iGPU and GPU. Took two off and back to normal.
> 
> On the other hand, direct die is installed. And temps dropped massively: 70c max 1 core rest 60-65c.
> 
> 4.4Ghz E cores and 5.5Ghz P cores.
> 
> Trying for 5.6 now.
> View attachment 2561572
> 
> View attachment 2561570
> 
> View attachment 2561569


Is upper hole inlet? And lower hole outlet?


----------



## jomama22

sugi0lover said:


> Is upper hole inlet? And lower hole outlet?


Center hole is inlet, offset hole is outlet.


----------



## vannak

ViTosS said:


> Nice, does anyone know why the core #1 always use to be way lower temperature than the others? It seems like a common thing I've seen when people with 12900k post their core by core temperatures when running some stress test, and even going direct die doesn't seem to ''solve'' that, so it's not a problem of bad solder or IHS not 100% flat surface etc.


I have also noticed this on my 12700k, core #1, the second core, is cool. If I had to guess, maybe the hyperthread cores are just reversed, so down the chip it goes like "1/0, 3/2, 5/4, 7/6, [E-cores]"


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I don't know...
> I said I would stop chasing CPUs once I achieved 5.5Ghz.
> 
> Now that I did (and it's not high voltage to achieve with low temps), I'm still looking for another that can do 5.6Ghz and I can't stop.
> 
> Ugh, should I just call it quits and be happy with something that almost does 5.6Ghz?
> 
> Or be happy with it and wait for 13th gen?
> 
> I assume mobos will be same.


You're infected with the itch to want to push your chip further. It's an addiction. I suggest you try not to compare yourself to sugi or others who could hit 5.6 GHz, and just focus on other things instead, like GPU or RAM overclocking. Otherwise you're just going to accumulate more and more losses as you try to bin a 5.6 GHz chip that you'd never be able to daily anyway since it would run at voltages deep into degradation territory. It would only be for bragging rights since you'd just bench it for a few hours and then dial it back in the end. It's not worth it.


----------



## centvalny

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I don't know...
> I said I would stop chasing CPUs once I achieved 5.5Ghz.
> 
> Now that I did (and it's not high voltage to achieve with low temps), I'm still looking for another that can do 5.6Ghz and I can't stop.
> 
> Ugh, should I just call it quits and be happy with something that almost does 5.6Ghz?
> 
> Or be happy with it and wait for 13th gen?
> 
> I assume mobos will be same.


The next logical step is to go colder on your cpu and jump to 6Ghz+ playing field


----------



## WebsterRKL

Any of you totally amazing gents buying Raptor Lake 13900K and Z790 Apex?

Can we anticipate DDR5 reaching 7000Mhz by launch September October?


----------



## warbucks

WebsterRKL said:


> Any of you totally amazing gents buying Raptor Lake 13900K and Z790 Apex?
> 
> Can we anticipate DDR5 reaching 7000Mhz by launch September October?


I'll be grabbing a 13900k for sure. I'll wait on the board and see what the differences really are given Z690 should still support Raptor Lake. I think we'll see 7000Mhz kits end of summer. Supposedly a new revision of hynix is floating around.


----------



## WebsterRKL

warbucks said:


> I'll be grabbing a 13900k for sure. I'll wait on the board and see what the differences really are given Z690 should still support Raptor Lake. I think we'll see 7000Mhz kits end of summer. Supposedly a new revision of hynix is floating around.


Thanks so much, hope there's a dedicated 13900K thread, new Hynix revision sounds so tempting, my work apps love Hynix high-bandwidth. Recently moved my RKL build from Noctua good air to simple custom AIO (no res) in preparation for Raptor Lake. 

Here's my water loop:

Find any flaws or shortcomings unable to cope with an eventual and long term 13900KS running at stock, no overclock - please feel free to roast me over an open fire. lol 

I can still make improvements before September...









Fastest Typewriter Build on Planet Earth lol - adds...


The "before" image utilizing the extremely large Noctua NH-P1 passive heatsink in active configuration: Components already in parts drawer - no need to purchase: 40 to 60 Bitspower Deluxe White "Ultimate" fittings, 45degree 90degree 60degree rotaries, triple rotary-snake, passthroughs, stop...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Alberto_It

Someone can please explain me how to calculate the values on Thermal Velocity Boost per cores? Thanks


----------



## OLDFATSHEEP

WebsterRKL said:


> Any of you totally amazing gents buying Raptor Lake 13900K and Z790 Apex?
> 
> Can we anticipate DDR5 reaching 7000Mhz by launch September October?


Oloy has already planned 7000 but not yet on the market.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> You're infected with the itch to want to push your chip further. It's an addiction. I suggest you try not to compare yourself to sugi or others who could hit 5.6 GHz, and just focus on other things instead, like GPU or RAM overclocking. Otherwise you're just going to accumulate more and more losses as you try to bin a 5.6 GHz chip that you'd never be able to daily anyway since it would run at voltages deep into degradation territory. It would only be for bragging rights since you'd just bench it for a few hours and then dial it back in the end. It's not worth it.


I have one last attempt. I have SP96 chip (binned) and I will see if that one can do it, if not I will not be chasing 5.6 again as it will be too expensive and I may not be able get it anyways. I just know this was my best shot at it.


----------



## Groove2013

OLDFATSHEEP said:


> Oloy has already planned 7000 but not yet on the market.
> View attachment 2561950











G.SKILL Showcases DDR5-7000 CL40 Extreme Speed Memory - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.


2 November 2021 – G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd., the world’s leading manufacturer of extreme performance memory and gaming peripherals, is thrilled to announce the achievement of DDR5-7000 CL40-40-40-76 32GB 2x16GB extreme speed, passing the Memtest stability test. 7000MTs memory...




www.gskill.com


----------



## centvalny

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I have one last attempt. I have SP96 chip (binned) and I will see if that one can do it, if not I will not be chasing 5.6 again as it will be too expensive and I may not be able get it anyways. I just know this was my best shot at it.


Buy a good cpu pot, LN2 dewar with good vacuum and pcb heater. Start with cheaper dry ice and once you get some stable good cold settings then go LN2.
It will be lotsa fun seeing cpu do 6 6+ghz running


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

centvalny said:


> Buy a good cpu pot, LN2 dewar with good vacuum and pcb heater. Start with cheaper dry ice and once you get some stable good cold settings then go LN2.
> It will be lotsa fun seeing cpu do 6 6+ghz running


I'm good, I want things fast 24/7 not 10 min.


----------



## centvalny

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I'm good, I want things fast 24/7 not 10 min.


Then you need to bin more ks


----------



## Nizzen

WebsterRKL said:


> Any of you totally amazing gents buying Raptor Lake 13900K and Z790 Apex?
> 
> Can we anticipate DDR5 reaching 7000Mhz by launch September October?


Clock'EM UP guys got T-force 7000mhz es kit about 1 month ago, so it can't be too far away 

PS: This is the guys came with Supercool computer watercooling stuff


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

centvalny said:


> Then you need to bin more ks


But I literally said that I got SP96 one with 105P cores now to try again....


----------



## Nizzen

TheNaitsyrk said:


> But I literally said that I got SP96 one with 105P cores now to try again....


What speed do you get with 4x16GB ddr5 Hynix on Formula? Tnx for answer


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Nizzen said:


> What speed do you get with 4x16GB ddr5 Hynix on Formula? Tnx for answer


5600Mhz was stable CL30, or 6800 CL30 with 2 sticks.

The RAM I have is on QVL list but not in 4x16GB config, the only one that's on QVL is 4000 or 4400 Corsair DDR5 kit nothing else, so your experience may vary.


----------



## Nizzen

TheNaitsyrk said:


> 5600Mhz was stable CL30, or 6800 CL30 with 2 sticks.


That's pretty good! 
Tnx!


----------



## centvalny

TheNaitsyrk said:


> But I literally said that I got SP96 one with 105P cores now to try again....


 Got my sp98 can do 7g r20 cold but cold boot bug at -140c. So it is not perfect.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

TheNaitsyrk said:


> 5600Mhz was stable CL30, or 6800 CL30 with 2 sticks.





centvalny said:


> Got my sp98 can do 7g r20 cold but cold boot bug at -140c. So it is not perfect.
> View attachment 2561953


Well done, but I don't do LN.


----------



## Groove2013

EKWB has been working on a Direct DIE CPU block for some time already


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Groove2013 said:


> EKWB has been working on a Direct DIE CPU block for some time already


If my direct die won't be good for 13 series, then I might snag theirs for sure.


----------



## david12900k

Hey guys, i have been compiling a list of ASUS bios settings that can help sustain higher OC's. Does anyone else know of any settings to modify? Things like VRM Switching Speed to 500 or 300, disabling c states, trying to utilize lower LLC's, etc


----------



## sugi0lover

I installed the direct die kit, but the temp is not much lowered from delided + liquid. Maybe I installed incorrectly.
Anyway, 55/43/45 at load voltage 1.234v to pass Cine at water temp 24C.









[update]
56/44/46 at load voltage 1.323v at water temp 25C.


----------



## Spit051261

Did 6969MHz @1.625v on my SP85 12900k, should have gone higher .
Interesting thing ,couldn't get GTL tool to work on Windows 8 so had to boot into Windows at that speed at -195 
Good job no cold bug on this baby.
Fun and games at benching .


----------



## jomama22

sugi0lover said:


> I installed the direct die kit, but the temp is not much lowered from delided + liquid. Maybe I installed incorrectly.
> Anyway, 55/43/45 at load voltage 1.234v to pass Cine at water temp 24C.
> View attachment 2561985
> 
> 
> [update]
> 56/44/46 at load voltage 1.323v at water temp 25C.
> View attachment 2561987


Could just be leaky cores. Temps are relatively close to mine given the same clocks (and basically the same voltage) for 5.6. Guessing the reported package power just isn't all that accurate tbh.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

ARE u guys lapping your chips ? I just got my 12700k, and it has a fair dip, with a straight-edge across the short axis. Not very much along the long axis. I'm thinking of getting of those CPU brackets from Thermalright, just for the sake of reducing any long term bending, and lack of pin, and HS contact that it might have down the road.

I have a very un-used, and very fine sharpening stone, but it's probably not flat enough, IDK, I should check it with the ruler too.

I assume people make sure the chip works 1st.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

sugi0lover said:


> I installed the direct die kit, but the temp is not much lowered from delided + liquid. Maybe I installed incorrectly.
> Anyway, 55/43/45 at load voltage 1.234v to pass Cine at water temp 24C.
> View attachment 2561985
> 
> 
> [update]
> 56/44/46 at load voltage 1.323v at water temp 25C.
> View attachment 2561987


It's all correct. My temps are about same as yours.


----------



## sugi0lover

jomama22 said:


> Could just be leaky cores. Temps are relatively close to mine given the same clocks (and basically the same voltage) for 5.6. Guessing the reported package power just isn't all that accurate tbh.


Thanks for your input.
What I mean is that my direct die got me only 4~5c lower temp comparing delidded setup. I thought it was going to decrease more temp. But it's okay.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks for your input.
> What I mean is that my direct die got me only 4~5c lower temp comparing delidded setup. I thought it was going to decrease more temp. But it's okay.


That's already very good. People claiming they got 7C less or so was probably a mismeasurement or an environmental difference.
This is why I feel that the custom bend bracket could probably offer similar performance at a much lower cost and also allow people to reuse their own CPU waterblocks, which are most likely engineered better than what Supercool provides.
You should test the bracket and your own waterblock and see what the difference is. It's only like, $10 on AliExpress.


----------



## Spit051261

Got a link for the AliExpress bracket


----------



## Ichirou

Spit051261 said:


> Got a link for the AliExpress bracket











9.15US $ 57% OFF|Thermalright Lga17xx-bcf Intel12 Generation Cpu Bending Correction Fixing Buckle Lga1700/1800 Buckle Fix Substitute Cnc Aluminum - Fans & Cooling - AliExpress


Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com




www.aliexpress.com


----------



## jomama22

Ichirou said:


> That's already very good. People claiming they got 7C less or so was probably a mismeasurement or an environmental difference.
> This is why I feel that the custom bend bracket could probably offer similar performance at a much lower cost and also allow people to reuse their own CPU waterblocks, which are most likely engineered better than what Supercool provides.
> You should test the bracket and your own waterblock and see what the difference is. It's only like, $10 on AliExpress.


It should be noted that this better temperature comes from the coldplate style. If you have a convex coldplate, you will see little to no difference in temps, as has been shown over and over.

If you have a flat coldplate, you will get temps that basically represent what a convex coldplate already does.

You aren't going to get within 10C with a bracket vs delid/direct die. It's just not happening.

Go take a look at Igor's lab testing of the brackets.

The main advantage of direct die is the ability to cool high voltage/high power. The higher you go, the better it will be compared to any other means.

Also, it is possible I may have been slightly incorrect as his temps may seem a bit higher than I would expect, but that difference is most likely down to the chip itself. Testing many K and KS, hottest core can vary by 10C given the exact same voltage. My current chip is the coolest I have used out of the 20 chips tested.

As a refresher, this is with 21C ambient, 23C water with basically the same exact voltage (1.327 vs 1.325, VR VOUT is the same as Asus "die sense" (the voltage output by the voltage controller):









Reported CPU package power is also 50w more in my bench, but who knows how accurate that is.


----------



## Spit051261

Ichirou said:


> 9.15US $ 57% OFF|Thermalright Lga17xx-bcf Intel12 Generation Cpu Bending Correction Fixing Buckle Lga1700/1800 Buckle Fix Substitute Cnc Aluminum - Fans & Cooling - AliExpress
> 
> 
> Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aliexpress.com


Thanks bro


----------



## Ichirou

@sugi0lover What is the Vcore scaling like past 5.2-5.3 GHz? How much more Vcore is needed for each +100 MHz on average?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> @sugi0lover What is the Vcore scaling like past 5.2-5.3 GHz? How much more Vcore is needed for each +100 MHz on average?


Here is the quick test at water temp around 25C. For P 5.5Ghz+, I adjusted E cores and Cache for my actual usage.


----------



## zaniop

Hi guys,

I tried to overclock my 12700K, to see if I was lucky... After having a rather bad 9900K..

Here are my settings:

12700K
Z690 edge wifi ddr4
4x8gb trident Z RGB 3600 CL16 (4x8, because my old motherboard was T topology (Z390 Aorus Master) and I kept my kit)

*CPU Settings*


P-Core Ratio Apply Mode : *All Core*
P-Core Ratio : *50*
E-Core Ratio Apply Mode : *All Core*
E-Core Ratio : *40*
CPU Ratio Offset When Running AVX : *0*
Ring Ratio : *40*
CPU Cooler Tuning : *Water Cooled (PL 4096W)*



*DRAM Setting*

- XMP Profile 1
*DDR4 3600Mhz 16-16-16-36 @1.35V*
- CPU IMC : DRAM Clock : *Gear 1*


_*Voltage Setting*_

- DigitALL Power
CPU Loadline Calibration Control : *Mode 3*

CPU Core Voltage Mode : *Override Mode*
CPU Core Voltage : *1.200*
CPU SA Voltage Mode : *Override Mode*
CPU SA Voltage : *1.250*
DRAM Voltage : *1.350*

I ran Cinebench R23 30min (~24400 pts), OCCT 1h small data AVX2 (no error). I played video games all day, Currently the PC is on for 9h.

What do you think? Is it rahter a good CPU?


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> Here is the quick test at water temp around 25C. For P 5.5Ghz+, I adjusted E cores and Cache for my actual usage.
> View attachment 2562164


Thanks sugi. So once you got past 5.3 GHz, there was a jump in Vcore, and then another major jump past 5.5 GHz.
I assume the jumps differ per chip and happen at random? Or is there some discernable pattern for when they happen?
Does killing off the E-cores help in reducing that jump, or not really?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Thanks sugi. So once you got past 5.3 GHz, there was a jump in Vcore, and then another major jump past 5.5 GHz.
> I assume the jumps differ per chip and happen at random? Or is there some discernable pattern for when they happen?
> Does killing off the E-cores help in reducing that jump, or not really?


No problem. Your assumption is correct. different chip at random. 
Killing off E-cores will lower those voltages, but I guess the jump pattern for my chip will be similar.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Just took off my direct die using quick connects. Effortless. 10 min job.


----------



## sugi0lover

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Just took off my direct die using quick connects. Effortless. 10 min job.
> View attachment 2562208
> 
> View attachment 2562209
> 
> View attachment 2562207


I have the same way you did, so the water doesn't spill into the CPU side much when you use qd?
Then it should be really easy to disassemble.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

sugi0lover said:


> I have the same way you did, so the water doesn't spill into the CPU side much when you use qd?
> Then it should be really easy to disassemble.
> View attachment 2562210


You actually made it harder for yourself. Once you disconnect you will still have coolant there, you need to have tube run from the block so whatever is in the block can escape as well.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

sugi0lover said:


> I have the same way you did, so the water doesn't spill into the CPU side much when you use qd?
> Then it should be really easy to disassemble.
> View attachment 2562210


I didn't even have a drop of spillage as there weren't any coolant. People here told me I couldn't do this... Took 10 min.


----------



## sugi0lover

TheNaitsyrk said:


> You actually made it harder for yourself. Once you disconnect you will still have coolant there, you need to have tube run from the block so whatever is in the block can escape as well.


Not that hard since I don't need to take any coolant out. I just need to disconnect that CPU part, take MB out and put it upside down and take direct die out.
I did it once already.
Anyway, I don't have any plan to change the 12th gen anymore utill the 13th gen releases. Good job of yours!


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

sugi0lover said:


> Not that hard since I don't need to take any coolant out. I just need to disconnect that CPU part, take MB out and put it upside down and take direct die out.
> I did it once already.
> Anyway, I don't have any plan to change the 12th gen anymore utill the 13th gen releases. Good job of yours!


Thanks! Me too. This SP96 chip I'm replacing should do the job I want I think or at very least do same job and run cooler.


----------



## spin5000

Difficult to search through 302 (so far) pages. Can some of you give your thoughts about the IMC / memory controller on the 12700K VS 12900K VS 12900KS?

I really want to run a set of 32 GB (2x 16 GB) G.Skill 4000 MHz CL16 or CL14 in gear 1.


----------



## sugi0lover

spin5000 said:


> Difficult to search through 302 (so far) pages. Can some of you give your thoughts about the IMC / memory controller on the 12700K VS 12900K VS 12900KS?
> 
> I really want to run a set of 32 GB (2x 16 GB) G.Skill 4000 MHz CL16 or CL14 in gear 1.


It doesn't deal with 12700K, but you can get some ideas about 12900K vs 12900KS.








Intel’s finest crowbar selection - Core i9-12900KS binning and OC comparison with 12900K/KF | igor'sLAB


The Intel Core i9-12900KS has been on the market for a few weeks now and is, at least on paper, actually just an even more highly selected variant of the i9-12900K with a slightly higher clock and…




www.igorslab.de


----------



## MikeS3000

spin5000 said:


> Difficult to search through 302 (so far) pages. Can some of you give your thoughts about the IMC / memory controller on the 12700K VS 12900K VS 12900KS?
> 
> I really want to run a set of 32 GB (2x 16 GB) G.Skill 4000 MHz CL16 or CL14 in gear 1.


In most cases the 12700k will have a weaker IMC and may not reach DDR 4000 gear 1. My 12700k would boot at 3900 but was really only stable at 3800 speed. Most 12900K and 12900KS should do 4000+.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Gents. I too have reached 5.6Ghz OC. 1.425V on CCL6.

Actual core voltage is 1.403V during runs and temps in mid 70s. It passed couple of Cinebench runs with ease so I know I can stabilise this.
5.6Ghz P cores.
4.4Ghz E cores.
46 Cache
6800Mhz CL30 memory.
Direct die.
















Still got some voltage headroom and about 8c more I can sacrifice.
Woohoo!


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Score looks like a 5.4GHz 12900k though.


----------



## jomama22

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Gents. I too have reached 5.6Ghz OC. 1.425V on CCL6.
> 
> Actual core voltage is 1.403V during runs and temps in mid 70s. It passed couple of Cinebench runs with ease so I know I can stabilise this.
> 5.6Ghz P cores.
> 4.4Ghz E cores.
> 46 Cache
> 6800Mhz CL30 memory.
> Direct die.
> View attachment 2562225
> View attachment 2562226
> 
> 
> Still got some voltage headroom and about 8c more I can sacrifice.
> Woohoo!


That 31000 is severely low. I don't go below 32000 even with a bunch of stuff open.

Would run using hwinfo to get proper voltage as well.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

jomama22 said:


> That 31000 is severely low. I don't go below 32000 even with a bunch of stuff open.
> 
> Would run using hwinfo to get proper voltage as well.


There is stuff open in the background...

I'm also on Windows 11 where scores are lower.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

TheNaitsyrk said:


> There is stuff open in the background...
> 
> I'm also on Windows 11 where scores are lower.


Closed background stuff and did high priority, 400 points better than my 5.5Ghz SP94 chip. I will try Windows 10, should get 32300 or so.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

I did high priority and bam, I have A LOT of random shiz in the background believe me.

Windows 11 also slows it down.

I should get 32300 on Windows 10. I'll post once I'm back on 10.


----------



## Ichirou

spin5000 said:


> Difficult to search through 302 (so far) pages. Can some of you give your thoughts about the IMC / memory controller on the 12700K VS 12900K VS 12900KS?
> 
> I really want to run a set of 32 GB (2x 16 GB) G.Skill 4000 MHz CL16 or CL14 in gear 1.


I can answer this question as I've tested four different 12900s with DDR4.
Trying to boot 4,000+ on anything less than a 12900 is a hit or miss. But on any 12900, even really bad samples, 4,000 CL14 Gear 1 should be easy to run.
It's going above 4,000 that is a hit or miss and requires a binned 12900 DDR4 IMC.
(And quad DIMMs requires an even stronger IMC, but that's irrelevant in your case.)


TheNaitsyrk said:


> Gents. I too have reached 5.6Ghz OC. 1.425V on CCL6.
> 
> Actual core voltage is 1.403V during runs and temps in mid 70s. It passed couple of Cinebench runs with ease so I know I can stabilise this.
> 5.6Ghz P cores.
> 4.4Ghz E cores.
> 46 Cache
> 6800Mhz CL30 memory.
> Direct die.
> View attachment 2562225
> View attachment 2562226
> 
> 
> Still got some voltage headroom and about 8c more I can sacrifice.
> Woohoo!


So... Even after convincing yourself to settle for 5.5 GHz and pooling the advice of people here... You still decided to buy a binned 5.6 GHz chip for... bragging rights?


----------



## bscool

spin5000 said:


> Difficult to search through 302 (so far) pages. Can some of you give your thoughts about the IMC / memory controller on the 12700K VS 12900K VS 12900KS?
> 
> I really want to run a set of 32 GB (2x 16 GB) G.Skill 4000 MHz CL16 or CL14 in gear 1.


Just giving you a small sample size I have helped a few people oc memory on z690 dddr4 using 12700k and I have had a few 12900 kf, k and ks myself and they all could do 4000c14 with DR b die in gear 1. Obviously there will be some that can do a little less and some a little more.

MB used was z690 Strix d4 for all that I helped and what I have myself.

Edit actually 1 of the 12700k could do SR @4000c14 but with DR only 4000c15-15-15.


----------



## AlderPuddle

I have been reading more about oc lately and found that keeping your cpu on high voltages may decrease it's lifespan. My voltage is curently at 1.412 V at idle (only Mozilla and Spotify opened). Is this ok on long term ? If it isn't then what setting should I change in bios ? Thx


----------



## z390e

5.3 with auto E-cores works OK for me, but I am still trying to dial in the e-core OC, I can make it do any of the memtests at 5.3/4.2 but R20 fails at 4.2 for a few hours of testing until I hit 1.4 target voltage and stopped for today.


----------



## Ichirou

AlderPuddle said:


> I have been reading more about oc lately and found that keeping your cpu on high voltages may decrease it's lifespan. My voltage is curently at 1.412 V at idle (only Mozilla and Spotify opened). Is this ok on long term ? If it isn't then what setting should I change in bios ? Thx
> 
> View attachment 2562266


Idle is fine. Load, might not be due to degradation, especially without good cooling. Not enough information is known right now.


----------



## sugi0lover

a little fun with y-cruncher with e cores on/Win 11. hard to get into 54s...
Maybe Win10 can make it possible?
[Edit]
I have never run anything on Win10 with the 12th gen, but I see people are still running Win10 with the 12th gen. Win10 is better for benching?


----------



## WebsterRKL

Nizzen said:


> Clock'EM UP guys got T-force 7000mhz es kit about 1 month ago, so it can't be too far away
> 
> PS: This is the guys came with Supercool computer watercooling stuff


Hoping my build is Raptor Lake ready


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> a little fun with y-cruncher with e cores on/Win 11. hard to get into 54s...
> Maybe Win10 can make it possible?
> [Edit]
> I have never run anything on Win10 with the 12th gen, but I see people are still running Win10 with the 12th gen. Win10 is better for benching?
> View attachment 2562288


Should be possible. W10 is just better in every way right now. Use a custom OS, and you'll get even lower numbers.
Isn't AVX-512 better than the E-cores, though? I believe you found that out yourself before.
Here is an example result for gaming on W10:


----------



## WebsterRKL

Me:
1) Inaudibility while working
2) Pleasing build aesthetics
3) Raw mind-blowing performance

You excellent gents:
1) Raw mind-blowing performance
2)
3)


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Should be possible. W10 is just better in every way right now. Use a custom OS, and you'll get even lower numbers.
> Isn't AVX-512 better than the E-cores, though? I believe you found that out yourself before.
> Here is an example result for gaming on W10:


Thanks for the info! I know that my AVX-512 setup is almost 51s, so it's faster. Just tested with e-cores on.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Fresh build of Windows 10 Pro.

Bios voltage 1.435V, Voltage during run is: 1.430V 5.6G P cores 4.4G E cores 46 Cache Memory 6800Mhz CL30
First run temps: slightly below 70c.
After 30 min mid 70s.


----------



## Alberto_It

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Fresh build of Windows 10 Pro.
> 
> Bios voltage 1.435V, Voltage during run is: 1.430V 5.6G P cores 4.4G E cores 46 Cache Memory 6800Mhz CL30
> First run temps: slightly below 70c.
> After 30 min mid 70s.
> 
> View attachment 2562329


Very good score! Congrats 🤟💪😎


----------



## jomama22

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Fresh build of Windows 10 Pro.
> 
> Bios voltage 1.435V, Voltage during run is: 1.430V 5.6G P cores 4.4G E cores 46 Cache Memory 6800Mhz CL30
> First run temps: slightly below 70c.
> After 30 min mid 70s.
> 
> View attachment 2562329


Can you do a run with this same settings with all pages of hwinfo open? 1.43v under load seems really high.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

jomama22 said:


> Can you do a run with this same settings with all pages of hwinfo open? 1.43v under load seems really high.


It is 5.6 after all. 
HWInfo crashes my PC so can't.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

jomama22 said:


> Can you do a run with this same settings with all pages of hwinfo open? 1.43v under load seems really high.


Never mind. I checked anyway and it's 1.369V via HWinfo. Die sense.


----------



## Nizzen

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Never mind. I checked anyway and it's 1.369V via HWinfo. Die sense.
> View attachment 2562333


Show everything


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Nizzen said:


> Show everything


Is there a way to stabilise cache? 47 passes most of time but sometimes errors out.


----------



## Groove2013

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Is there a way to stabilise cache? 47 passes most of time but sometimes errors out.


disable E-cores and do >5.0 GHz cache


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Is there a way to stabilise cache? 47 passes most of time but sometimes errors out.


Boost Vcore, boost IMC voltage.
The E-cores weigh on the cache, making it suck ass, as it is shared with the E-cores, which are much worse than the P-cores.
That's part of the reason why most people can't push it too high with the E-cores on.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> Boost Vcore, boost IMC voltage.


maybe L2 voltage boost to like 1.4 V or slightly below?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> Boost Vcore, boost IMC voltage.
> The E-cores weigh on the cache, making it suck ass, as it is shared with the E-cores, which are much worse than the P-cores.
> That's part of the reason why most people can't push it too high with the E-cores on.


I'll see when I boost IMC voltage whether it will let me do higher setting.


----------



## bscool

Groove2013 said:


> maybe L2 voltage boost to like 1.4 V or slightly below?


I have used higher L2 and it helps with high cache and e core enabled. I think I went up to around 1.35v. Not sure what a safe limit is.


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> I have used higher L2 and it helps with high cache and e core enabled. I think I went up to around 1.35v. Not sure what a safe limit is.











Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion


Testing for aio lovers: Arctic Aio in BF2042 Played 2 hours without any problems. SP 89. All core 5.5ghz and "cheap" cores at 4.4ghz. HT= on Apex z690 and Dominator 5200 @ 5400 micron oc profile One picture from yesterday with 5.4ghz, that is the sweetspot for voltage/frequency




www.overclock.net




Somebody else here did the same; 1.35V on the L2 voltage helped stabilize


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion
> 
> 
> Testing for aio lovers: Arctic Aio in BF2042 Played 2 hours without any problems. SP 89. All core 5.5ghz and "cheap" cores at 4.4ghz. HT= on Apex z690 and Dominator 5200 @ 5400 micron oc profile One picture from yesterday with 5.4ghz, that is the sweetspot for voltage/frequency
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somebody else here did the same; 1.35V on the L2 voltage helped stabilize


I'll do that. Thanks a lot!


----------



## Nizzen

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Is there a way to stabilise cache? 47 passes most of time but sometimes errors out.


Higher v-core maybe. Same lane, and L2, like they said upstairs


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion
> 
> 
> Testing for aio lovers: Arctic Aio in BF2042 Played 2 hours without any problems. SP 89. All core 5.5ghz and "cheap" cores at 4.4ghz. HT= on Apex z690 and Dominator 5200 @ 5400 micron oc profile One picture from yesterday with 5.4ghz, that is the sweetspot for voltage/frequency
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Somebody else here did the same; 1.35V on the L2 voltage helped stabilize


I set it at 1.25V from 1.05v default and it's now stable easily.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

On ASUS mobos where can I find IMC voltage?


----------



## bscool

TheNaitsyrk said:


> On ASUS mobos where can I find IMC voltage?


Isnt it under advanced memory voltages at the very bottom of extreme tweaker page? I dont have ddr5 board hooked up to look so going by memory. Also might be able to use search in bios to find it.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

bscool said:


> Isnt it under advanced memory voltages at the very bottom of extreme tweaker page? I dont have ddr5 board hooked up to look so going by memory. Also might be able to use search in bios to find it.


The voltage for IMC is currently 1.385V (auto), if I even stick 1.4V text turns purple, is that safe? I could stick it at 1.45V?


----------



## Nizzen

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Never mind. I checked anyway and it's 1.369V via HWinfo. Die sense.
> View attachment 2562333


You showing vid, not real voltage? Looks like cpu is throtteling. Look at effective clock... show everything in hwinfo, then it's better to see what's gong on


----------



## Alberto_It

Nizzen said:


> You showing vid, not real voltage? Looks like cpu is throtteling. Look at effective clock... show everything in hwinfo, then it's better to see what's gong on


he's a shy guy  😃


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Nizzen said:


> You showing vid, not real voltage? Looks like cpu is throtteling. Look at effective clock... show everything in hwinfo, then it's better to see what's gong on


Nothing is throttling. Yesterday I put 1.46V on purpose LLC6 in BIOS and only had max temp of 82 on P cores.

Each score was coming out at 32150-32400.

It was pushing 1.385v- 1390v through CPU.

Don't forget I have Z690 Formula not Apex so it may show voltage differently, it shows voltage only where I sent the screenshot. CPU-Z started measuring properly as well and it matches.

I can show it once I'm at home, but you'll not see any difference between me or anyone who's got 5.6


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Alberto_It said:


> he's a shy guy  😃


Just very busy


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

FYI, if anyone is interested I have SP94 12900KS for sale. P-Cores 104, E-Cores 75.

It can do 5.5Ghz P-Cores and 4.4Ghz E-cores and Cache 46. On my 4 slot mobo it did 6800Mhz CL30 with ease. Passed Cinebench R23 3x 30min stress test loops with those settings.

Looking for £900 if anyone is interested.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

FYI, my software is misreporting because my scores are well over 32100, yet Windows Task Manager states it's 5.2? Which isn't possible to get 32000+ on 5.2Ghz or it's average of all cores.
HWInfo obviously lies about average core clock. CPU-Z and Core Temp seem to show it properly during runs.









Here I showed all cores under load.


----------



## jomama22

TheNaitsyrk said:


> FYI, my software is misreporting because my scores are well over 32100, yet Windows Task Manager states it's 5.2? Which isn't possible to get 32000+ on 5.2Ghz or it's average of all cores.
> HWInfo obviously lies about average core clock. CPU-Z and Core Temp seem to show it properly during runs.
> View attachment 2562401
> 
> 
> Here I showed all cores under load.
> 
> View attachment 2562402


Hwinfo isn't lying about anything. Average core clocks will report 5000 because, well, 4400 (8 cores) + 5600 (8 cores) / 2 = 5000.

Not sure why you would use task manager for anything beyond usage.

I only wanted to see all the pages of hwinfo to see what voltages, powers, etc of the chip, that's all. The more info you put out for others making comparisons, the better.

Also, I wouldn't just be changing MC voltage all willy nilly, causes instability way too much to do that.

You should really be focusing on memory timings and stability of you want the actual benefit from this platform. Clock speed really doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things and doesn't provide nearly the uplift that memory tuning does. 

Lastly, that sp94 chip is not worth 900 pounds, or roughly $1150. You should also clarify it is delided and has 0 warranty.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

jomama22 said:


> Hwinfo isn't lying about anything. Average core clocks will report 5000 because, well, 4400 (8 cores) + 5600 (8 cores) / 2 = 5000.
> 
> Not sure why you would use task manager for anything beyond usage.
> 
> I only wanted to see all the pages of hwinfo to see what voltages, powers, etc of the chip, that's all. The more info you put out for others making comparisons, the better.
> 
> Also, I wouldn't just be changing MC voltage all willy nilly, causes instability way too much to do that.
> 
> You should really be focusing on memory timings and stability of you want the actual benefit from this platform. Clock speed really doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things and doesn't provide nearly the uplift that memory tuning does.
> 
> Lastly, that sp94 chip is not worth 900 pounds, or roughly $1150. You should also clarify it is delided and has 0 warranty.


It's already been sold but thanks.

Also don't translate pounds to dollars because it has 0 meaning. 

Retail 12900KS here is £750. 
Retail US is 750 USD.
750 USD is £592....


----------



## bscool

TheNaitsyrk said:


> The voltage for IMC is currently 1.385V (auto), if I even stick 1.4V text turns purple, is that safe? I could stick it at 1.45V?


I dont know what is safe. I usually just use auto and it sets it from 1.32 to 1.385 range depending on clocks.


----------



## Ichirou

The Golden Rule: Stay at max 1.40V for everything, lol

Seems like the 12900s are rapidly depreciating in value. Must be people getting rid of their overstock of binned chips collecting dust and people not wanting cash to gradually depreciate.
Plus, Raptor Lake is coming along, so that'll hit prices even more.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> The Golden Rule: Stay at max 1.40V for everything, lol
> 
> Seems like the 12900s are rapidly depreciating in value. Must be people getting rid of their overstock of binned chips collecting dust and people not wanting cash to gradually depreciate.
> Plus, Raptor Lake is coming along, so that'll hit prices even more.


I don't know about that, it just came out.

And I can't find any binned ones anywhere myself. I only sold mine because I was lucky to buy another one that does what I need.


----------



## Groove2013

@bscool still want a 12900KS that can do 4200 14-15-15 or 4200 15-15-15 2×16.


----------



## Groove2013

like the one of @geriatricpollywog that does 4200 14-15-15.
Absolute beast.

No max tuned/binned DDR5 comes close to it, FPS-wise.


----------



## bscool

Groove2013 said:


> like the one of @geriatricpollywog that does 4200 14-15-15.
> Absolute beast.
> 
> No max tuned/binned DDR5 comes close to it, FPS-wise.


Even guys running 7000c30? What game?

I have seen guys on discord compare and they are so close depending on game it dosnt matter. Within a few percent.


----------



## jomama22

Groove2013 said:


> like the one of @geriatricpollywog that does 4200 14-15-15.
> Absolute beast.
> 
> No max tuned/binned DDR5 comes close to it, FPS-wise.


Yeah, no, this is just wrong.


----------



## Groove2013

bscool said:


> Even guys running 7000c30? What game?
> 
> I have seen guys on discord compare and they are so close depending on game it dosnt matter. Within a few percent.


many different games.
considering the price of one DDR5 kit + binning of several + binning of several IMCs + the need of a Unify X, Apex or Kingpin and binning them + water to cool DDR5 and its voltage regulator on each stick, it makes 0 sense to go DDR5 + >$600€ mobo.

also in many games, such binned and OC'ed to the max DDR5 is still behind, close, on par or only marginally better than DDR4.

because not many games benefit from additional RAM badwidth, but most/all of them benefit from better RAM responsiveness.

And if your DDR4 IMC and DDR4 sticks are good, even a MSI A Pro board will be enough to do 4133-4300 MHz gear 1, although it won't have the best on-board sound, passive cooling of several M.2, not that many and not that fast USB ports and no RGB or error code screen or safe boot/retry buttons.


----------



## bscool

I agree ddr4 combi is cheaper and they are close in performance. I have both ddr4 and ddr5 z690 because I like to play around and mess with stuff.


----------



## Groove2013

bscool said:


> I agree ddr4 combi is cheaper and they are close in performance. I have both ddr4 and ddr5 z690 because I like to play around and mess with stuff.


that's fair enough.
but people buying DDR5 solely for "higher" FPS...


----------



## jomama22

Groove2013 said:


> many different games.
> considering the price of one DDR5 kit + binning of several + binning of several IMCs + the need of a Unify X, Apex or Kingpin and binning them + water to cool DDR5 and its voltage regulator on each stick, it makes 0 sense to go DDR5 + >$600€ mobo.
> 
> also in many games, such binned and OC'ed to the max DDR5 is still behind, close, on par or only marginally better than DDR4.
> 
> because not many games benefit from additional RAM badwidth, but most/all of them benefit from better RAM responsiveness.
> 
> And if your DDR4 IMC and DDR4 sticks are good, even a MSI A Pro board will be enough to do 4133-4300 MHz gear 1, although it won't have the best on-board sound, passive cooling of several M.2, not that many and not that fast USB ports and no RGB or error code screen or safe boot/retry buttons.


So you are just changing your stance to "because it's cheaper" lol.

I'm really not sure what point you are even trying to make anymore.


----------



## Groove2013

hoing from my Apex Z590 to Strix Z690, I must admit slightly missing safe boot/retry buttons and error code screen of the Apex, but other than that...
SP reading, all relevant CPU and RAM related settings are present in the BIOS, on-board sound, passive M.2 cooling are also equivalent and VRM is not a problem at all for a max OC'ed 12900KS.


----------



## bscool

But how many people can run DR over 4133c15? I would bet there are more people running ddr5 6800 to 7000c30 than people run z690 4133+ Karhu/y cruncher etc stable.

It takes a lot of luck/binning on ddr4 also to be able to run 4133+ and good memory.


----------



## Groove2013

bscool said:


> But how many people can run DR over 4133c15? I would bet there are more people running ddr5 6800 to 7000c30 than people run z690 4133+ Karhu/y cruncher etc stable.
> 
> It takes a lot of luck/binning on ddr4 also to be able to run 4133+ and good memory.


still easier and cheaper to achieve than DDR5 towards or past 7000, since no need for Apex/Kingpin/Unify X, no water for RAM, although binning of CPU IMC and RAM kits.
but no need to bin mobos, cheapest Z690 DDR4 can do it and most B-DIE DDR4 will do 4200 CL15, if 14 not possible, so no need to bin as many of them as DDR5 Hynix kits.


----------



## Groove2013

what irritates me a lot, is that DDR5 kits have thermal pads on memory chips only, but nothing to evac heat from the voltage regulator on the sticks, athough G.Skill and others sell them as high end stuff, meant for OC, which they know very well requires to increase the voltage, using original heatsinks...


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

I


Groove2013 said:


> what irritates me a lot, is that DDR5 kits have thermal pads on memory chips only, but nothing to evac heat from the voltage regulator on the sticks, athough G.Skill and others sell them as high end stuff, meant for OC, which they know very well requires to increase the voltage, using original heatsinks...


I have two Noctua fans pointed at my RAM and they're both at 1.55V. max temp according to HWInfo is 33c.


----------



## Groove2013

also newest G.Skill Trident Z5 6600 CL34 1.4 V XMP is a real joke, since it's same as 6400 CL32 1.4 V XMP, so 0 binning.
lets increase the frequency by 200 MHz, but also worsen CL by 2, at same voltage = same stuff, but for even higher price, to further milk majority of pеople that have 0 idea.

If it was 6600, but also CL32 and same voltage, as 6400, or even CL30 or 28, would have been understandable.


----------



## jomama22

Groove2013 said:


> I wouldn't be against DDR5, if it could beat DDR4 in responsiveness or reach DDR4 responsiveness, while having substantially higher bandwidth, but that's not the case and will never be.
> 
> DDR4 3200 CL14 was able to beat DDR3 2400 CL10 not only in bandwidth, but also in responsiveness.
> not even talking about 4200 CL14 - 4600/4700 CL16/17.
> 
> DDR5 7600 CL32, that almost nobody can reach is still way way behind good DDR4, in responsiveness, despite the bandwidth.


I am assuming by "responsiveness" you mean latency? If that is the case, I don't think you know how memory subsystems work nor even why ddr5 has a latency deficit anyway (p.s. it doesn't matter because of how ddr5 sends it's 64bit blocks). 

Anyone who decides to tune ddr4 to the level you describe can also time ddr5 to that same level. I posted my sottr results before. I avg 374 with 6400 1T 28-37-37-28, I averaged 386 with 7000 1T 30-41-41-28, compared to the 374 the 4200 score that guy got. So a good 3% increase. No binned Imc/dimms. 




Groove2013 said:


> still easier and cheaper to achieve than DDR5 towards or past 7000, since no need for Apex/Kingpin/Unify X, no water for RAM, although binning of CPU IMC and RAM kits.
> but no need to bin mobos, cheapest Z690 DDR4 can do it and most B-DIE DDR4 will do 4200 CL15, if 14 not possible, so no need to bin as many of them as DDR5 Hynix kits.


You realize just about every kit of hynix will do 7000c30? You can get cheap (less that $250) hynix kits that will easily do it. You do not need to bin dimms to do that.

Literally no one has ever said it made sense to get ddr5 over ddr4 if money is a concern. I'm pretty sure every publication and tuner has said to get ddr4 if you are on a budget.

It's like you are yelling in a mirror to convince yourself you are correct.


----------



## Groove2013

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I
> 
> I have two Noctua fans pointed at my RAM and they're both at 1.55V. max temp according to HWInfo is 33c.


if we put aside rpm and noise level of these fans, sure )))


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Groove2013 said:


> if we put aside rpm and noise level of these fans, sure )))


They're running at 900rpm


----------



## jomama22

Groove2013 said:


> also newest G.Skill Trident Z5 6600 CL34 1.4 V XMP is a real joke, since it's same as 6400 CL32 1.4 V XMP, so 0 binning.
> lets increase the frequency by 200 MHz, but also worsen CL by 2, at same voltage = same stuff, but for even higher price, to further milk majority of prople that have 0 idea.
> 
> If it was 6600, but also CL32 and same voltage, as 6400, or even CL30 or 28, would have been understandable.


What is your deal? DDR4 totally didn't do this right? nope, never, definitely not like it hasn't been around for 9 years with dozens of chip and pcb iterations or anything.

And most ddr5 dimms have thermal pads on the VRM...


----------



## Groove2013

jomama22 said:


> Anyone who decides to tune ddr4 to the level you describe can also time ddr5 to that same level. I posted my sottr results before. I avg 374 with 6400 1T 28-37-37-28, I averaged 386 with 7000 1T 30-41-41-28, compared to the 374 the 4200 score that guy got. So a good 3% increase. No binned Imc/dimms.
> 
> You realize just about every kit of hynix will do 7000c30? You can get cheap (less that $250) hynix kits that will easily do it. You do not need to bin dimms to do that.


Oh, so you're able to achieve this using one of the cheapest Z690 mobos?
you're telling me that everybody using Apex or Kingpin is able to do 7000 MHz and that at 1T, with no mobo or CPU IMC binning?

7000 1T, with no IMC and mobo binning, is a lot of luck - I can tell you this.
and most probably an Apex, Kingpin or Unify X.

~10 FPS more, in just 1 specific game, for so so much more $$$, when we're talking about hundreds of FPS...
I wouldn't even call this an achievement.


----------



## Groove2013

jomama22 said:


> What is your deal? DDR4 totally didn't do this right? nope, never, definitely not like it hasn't been around for 9 years with dozens of chip and pcb iterations or anything.


Doesn't matter if it was the same with DDR4, back then.
I'm looking at the current situation, today.

and, like I already said, DDR5 won't catch up DDR4 responsiveness wise, ever.

the only thing that can happen is that there will be more powerful (per core) CPUs, that will this way negate/overcome the lack of DDR5 responsiveness and won't support DDR4 anyways + next gen games, that will benefit more and more from higher RAM bandwidth, due to more, more detailed 3D objects and a lot of high resolution textures.

but now, it's the first time in history, that it's possible to compare DDR4, very good DDR4 on good enough DDR4 boards to current top DDR5 and that, using exactly the same CPU model/architecture/generation.

when i7-6700K came out and still was supporting DDR3 as well as DDR4, there were only few, very low end mobos, thst were supporting DDR3, low power and low frequency DDR3.


----------



## SoldierRBT

Groove2013 said:


> Oh, so you're able to achieve this using one of the cheapest Z690 mobos?
> you're telling me that everybody using Apex or Kingpin is able to do 7000 MHz and that at 1T, with no mobo or CPU IMC binning?
> 
> 7000 1T, with no IMC and mobo binning, is a lot of luck - I can tell you this.
> and most probably an Apex, Kingpin or Unify X.
> 
> ~10 FPS more, in just 1 specific game, for so so much more $$$, when we're talking about hundreds of FPS...
> I wouldn't even call this an achievement.


Not sure what's the point of your posts. Are you trying to justify your purchase or just can't afford a Z690/DDR5 platform? 

We'd appreciate if you could share performance/screenshots of your system.


----------



## Groove2013

but sure, early adpoters of anything, that pay whatever it costs them, for something very beta, if not alpha quality/performance, are and will always be needed, to refine/improve products and bring down their cost for the majority.


----------



## Groove2013

SoldierRBT said:


> Not sure what's the point of your posts. Are you trying to justify your purchase or just can't afford a Z690/DDR5 platform?
> 
> We'd appreciate if you could share performance/screenshots of your system.


I can buy no problem Apex/Kingpin mobo and needed Hynix kit, but in what I'm doing, it's not worth it, like at all.


----------



## Groove2013

will wait for 14th or 15th gen, before going DDR5. these CPUs should be able to compensate for lack of DDR5 responsiveness (vs. DDR4), despite noticably higher bandwidth.

Raptor still supports DDR4, although not Z790 mobos.
and B760 mobos maybe also not anymore.
just cheapo H chipset boards?

might be a good reason to have a good Z690 DDR4 mobo, for Raptor.


----------



## jomama22

Groove2013 said:


> Oh, so you're able to achieve this using one of the cheapest Z690 mobos?
> you're telling me that everybody using Apex or Kingpin is able to do 7000 MHz and that at 1T, with no mobo or CPU IMC binning?
> 
> 7000 1T, with no IMC and mobo binning, is a lot of luck - I can tell you this.
> and most probably an Apex, Kingpin or Unify X.
> 
> ~10 FPS more, in just 1 specific game, for so so much more $$$, when we're talking about hundreds of FPS...
> I wouldn't even call this an achievement.


Again, as I said, no one has ever said to buy ddr5 if your budget doesn't allow for it or if you want to save money.

Also, glad you can tell me how much luck it was with all the ddr5 you have tuned. With the Kingpin, I genuinely have no doubt just about everyone of those boards can do 7000 1t stable. Also, just about every 12900k/ks can do 7000+ as shown by Igor's lab here: Intel’s finest crowbar selection - Core i9-12900KS binning and OC comparison with 12900K/KF | Page 2 | igor'sLAB
The short of it, they tested 30 12900k's and 30 12900ks's and guess what, they could all do over 7200.

So I'll ask again, what is your whole point here? You just randomly decide to go on a rant about ddr5 for no reason at all. Your claims of performance and binning are just plain false so the only thing your rant even stands to matter is price, which, again, no one disagrees with.


----------



## Groove2013

jomama22 said:


> Your claims of performance are just plain false.


Depending on game, it's marginally better, same or even worse.
So no, not false.


----------



## Groove2013

would have switched to DDR5, if it was always better, and not just in selected titles and that only marginally.

it's not about cost.


----------



## jomama22

Groove2013 said:


> Depending on game, it's marginally better, same or even worse.
> So no, not false.


So did you have some weird expectations that ddr5 would always be better than ddr4 or something? Did you think it would somehow make a massive difference in in performance to begin with? This is what I'm not understanding. Did you have some massive expectation for a brand new memory type? If that's the case, then you really don't understand how these types of transitions work.

Also,
You said in reference to 4200cl14:


Groove2013 said:


> No max tuned/binned DDR5 comes close to it, FPS-wise.


Which is wrong.

And then continually moved the goal posts to fit your narrative, which at this point is just price.


----------



## Groove2013

jomama22 said:


> You said in reference to 4200cl14:
> 
> Which is wrong.
> 
> And then continually moved the goal posts to fit your narrative, which at this point is just price.


I said it and stand on it.

I also said, that it's not the matter of cost, but how it performs in general and not just in few selected titles.

so stop trying to twist my words as if it's now, suddenly, only about the cost, since it isn't and I said it several times already.

and no, I don't expect much from the beginning of DDR5.
just goes to show it's still far from beneficial to move to it, yet.

not more, not less.

just waste of money, to barely/technically/marginally surpass DDR4, in games.

if it's about having new toys to play/experiment with, it's another thing.


----------



## Spit051261

jomama22 said:


> Again, as I said, no one has ever said to buy ddr5 if your budget doesn't allow for it or if you want to save money.
> 
> Also, glad you can tell me how much luck it was with all the ddr5 you have tuned. With the Kingpin, I genuinely have no doubt just about everyone of those boards can do 7000 1t stable. Also, just about every 12900k/ks can do 7000+ as shown by Igor's lab here: Intel’s finest crowbar selection - Core i9-12900KS binning and OC comparison with 12900K/KF | Page 2 | igor'sLAB
> The short of it, they tested 30 12900k's and 30 12900ks's and guess what, they could all do over 7200.
> 
> So I'll ask again, what is your whole point here? You just randomly decide to go on a rant about ddr5 for no reason at all. Your claims of performance and binning are just plain false so the only thing your rant even stands to matter is price, which, again, no one disagrees with.


That's actually very true as far as the Kingpin Z690 goes .
Myself and friend can easily boot 7000 1T CL30
I am using T force 6400 and he is using G Skill 6400 , both Hynix.
Base Clock overclocking is also amazing on these boards for non K chips


----------



## jomama22

Groove2013 said:


> I said it and stand on it.
> 
> I also said, that it's not the matter of cost, but how it performs in general and not just in few selected titles.
> 
> so stop trying to twist my words as if it's now, suddenly, only about the cost, since it isn't and I said it several times already.
> 
> and no, I don't expect much from the beginning of DDR5.
> just goes to show it's still far from beneficial to move to it, yet.
> 
> not more, not less.
> 
> just waste of money, to barely/technically/marginally surpass DDR4, in games.
> 
> if it's about having new toys to play/experiment with, it's another thing.


Welp your wrong on the performance front. You are claiming max tweak ddr5 can't touch 4200cl14, which is laughable at best. You have 0 proof of this at all. The only proof you have is SoTTR, which I can physically show you loses by 3% with my "maxed tuned" ddr5, which isn't even the best out there. I am willing to bench any game you want to compare to 4200cl14, but wait, you don't even have 4200cl14 ram to do any tests with.

So even worse, you are just spouting your own performance assumptions based on what one user has as their ram, and of the one canned bench they provide, they lose.

I'm not twisting your words at all. They are YOUR words.


----------



## Exilon

E-cores being tied to VCC makes them difficult to tune separately. Just tune P-cores how you want and then raise E-core multiplier until crash and back off by 1-2x. 
More interesting is raising the FIVR L2 voltage to OC the ring, although it seems 42-44x is the limit depending on silicon lottery on the E-core L2 clusters


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

z390e said:


> What an odd comment. As someone with no dog in this fight, let me provide some unbiased feedback.
> 
> You have 15+ DDR5 (which you don't have) arguments in the last 25 comments in this ADL thread, while being aware of the DDR5 OC thread, and in neither thread have you posted a single bit of evidence supporting a single claim you have made. In this thread you have only made argumentative and challenging comments to other users here impugning their work or hardware and implying _they_ made poor purchases with_ their_ money.
> 
> I'd be less personally offended by your blatant rule violation if you were actually having this episode over in the DDR5 thread. Since you are having it here, I reported you. I've now wasted a good 5 minutes reading your posts and responding to you now.
> 
> ...
> 
> *For everyone else actually on topic*, how far are most of you pushing your e-cores? I see a lot of people disabling them for certain tests or AVX512 but I don't see a lot of discussion about e-core OC, are most people just focusing on p-cores?


My ones are 4.4 almost passing 4.5. 1.35V. Bios 1.435V LLC6 Asus mobo.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Guys, is it worth keeping GSkill 6400 CL32 RAM 4x16GB? I was thinking stuff that comes out soon might be quad channel or something along the lines.








G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB Series (Intel XMP) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR5 6400 CL32-39-39-102 1.40V Dual Channel Desktop Memory F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK (Matte Black) at Amazon.com


Buy G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB Series (Intel XMP) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR5 6400 CL32-39-39-102 1.40V Dual Channel Desktop Memory F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK (Matte Black): Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases



www.amazon.com


----------



## Nizzen

Groove2013 said:


> like the one of @geriatricpollywog that does 4200 14-15-15.
> Absolute beast.
> 
> No max tuned/binned DDR5 comes close to it, FPS-wise.


Close? Show us, and we wil try


----------



## Nizzen

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Guys, is it worth keeping GSkill 6400 CL32 RAM 4x16GB? I was thinking stuff that comes out soon might be quad channel or something along the lines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB Series (Intel XMP) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR5 6400 CL32-39-39-102 1.40V Dual Channel Desktop Memory F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK (Matte Black) at Amazon.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB Series (Intel XMP) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR5 6400 CL32-39-39-102 1.40V Dual Channel Desktop Memory F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK (Matte Black): Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com


Keep 2x 16GB and wait for 2x32GB hynix


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Nizzen said:


> Keep 2x 16GB and wait for 2x32GB hynix


Really tempted to leave it though haha


----------



## Alberto_It

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Really tempted to leave it though haha












Ops


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Alberto_It said:


> View attachment 2562457
> 
> 
> Ops


Yeah I have two sets of this haha, just thinking if I should leave them for upcoming quad channel mobos if there will be any I can always sell it later


----------



## bscool

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Guys, is it worth keeping GSkill 6400 CL32 RAM 4x16GB? I was thinking stuff that comes out soon might be quad channel or something along the lines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB Series (Intel XMP) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR5 6400 CL32-39-39-102 1.40V Dual Channel Desktop Memory F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK (Matte Black) at Amazon.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB Series (Intel XMP) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR5 6400 CL32-39-39-102 1.40V Dual Channel Desktop Memory F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK (Matte Black): Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com


Unless you are buying th gskill for the looks the Kingston 6000c40($217) if around half the price and will do 7000c30. I have the gskill 6400c32(I paid $650) and the Kingston is a better bin. It is still lucl/lotto with any kit but to me the Gskill is not worth twice the price.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

bscool said:


> Unless you are buying th gskill for the looks the Kingston 6000c40($217) if around half the price and will do 7000c30. I have the gskill 6400c32(I paid $650+) and the Kingston is a better bin. It is still lucl/lotto with any kit but to me the Gskill is not worth twice the price.


My little Z690 Formula maxes out at 6800 CL30 so I will keep it just because I like the looks and selling at a loss is not worth it now.


----------



## DSHG87

Hey Guys!

I just installed new 12900KS on an ASRock Z690. After the first boot before BIOS Update it said "Vcore 1.685V". After the update 1.081V. Could this have damaged the CPU? I did this because on ASRock Website it says:










Btw, this seems to be an early Sample; X141 Batch


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

DSHG87 said:


> Hey Guys!
> 
> I just installed new 12900KS on an ASRock Z690. After the first boot before BIOS Update it said "Vcore 1.685V". After the update 1.081V. Could this have damaged the CPU? I did this because on ASRock Website it says:
> 
> View attachment 2562467
> 
> 
> Btw, this seems to be an early Sample; X141 Batch


Don't think so, each mobo acts differently could be a spike.

Guys, look at this RAM from Corsair: https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categ...-RGB-DDR5-Memory---Black/p/CMT32GX5M2X6600C32

Thoughts?


----------



## Nizzen

DSHG87 said:


> Hey Guys!
> 
> I just installed new 12900KS on an ASRock Z690. After the first boot before BIOS Update it said "Vcore 1.685V". After the update 1.081V. Could this have damaged the CPU? I did this because on ASRock Website it says:
> 
> View attachment 2562467
> 
> 
> Btw, this seems to be an early Sample; X141 Batch


No. 

The current is too low to make a damage/degrade.


----------



## Nizzen

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Don't think so, each mobo acts differently could be a spike.
> 
> Guys, look at this RAM from Corsair: https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categ...-RGB-DDR5-Memory---Black/p/CMT32GX5M2X6600C32
> 
> Thoughts?


Most likely same bin as G.skill 6600c34. Nothing special


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Nizzen said:


> Most likely same bin as G.skill 6600c34. Nothing special


My 6400 CL32 has 32-39-39-102 and this one is 32-39-39-76? Does it make a difference (the 76 vs 102) on my one?


----------



## Nizzen

TheNaitsyrk said:


> My 6400 CL32 has 32-39-39-102 and this one is 32-39-39-76? Does it make a difference (the 76 vs 102) on my one?


Both will most likely OC to 7000+ c30 anyway. Silicon lottery is real, so even the cheap Beast 6000 Hynix can do better or worse than 6400c32 and this 6600c32.


----------



## jeiselramos

bscool said:


> Unless you are buying th gskill for the looks the Kingston 6000c40($217) if around half the price and will do 7000c30. I have the gskill 6400c32(I paid $650) and the Kingston is a better bin. It is still lucl/lotto with any kit but to me the Gskill is not worth twice the price.


My Kingston require ≈1.55 for 6600C30 2T
Not the best bin at all


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

jeiselramos said:


> My Kingston require ≈1.55 for 6600C30 2T
> Not the best bin at all


My RAM is not bad, it's just I have quad socket mobo doesn't help. I have another set I need to test.


----------



## bscool

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Don't think so, each mobo acts differently could be a spike.
> 
> Guys, look at this RAM from Corsair: https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categ...-RGB-DDR5-Memory---Black/p/CMT32GX5M2X6600C32
> 
> Thoughts?


I just cringe a little bit about rgb ram because unless you leave it on rainbow running any kind of software takes a hit to benchmarks. i know it doesnt matter in actual use but need every ns for that adia64 

Gskill software is pretty low overhead but in the past using Corsairs software it was bad, a huge install and a hit to latency. Maybe it has gotten better. I guess you can use the MB software but it is usually not much better.

I am tempted to see if they are binned to the max already like the gskill 4000c14 kits. Must resist...............


----------



## bscool

jeiselramos said:


> My Kingston require ≈1.55 for 6600C30 2T
> Not the best bin at all


My gskill 6400c32 needs that to run a similar clocks but I cant run tcl 30 need to go to 32 over 6400 or unstable with tighter subs.

Have you used any other ddr5 thats better or to compare? I only have 2 kits so a small sample size.


----------



## jeiselramos

bscool said:


> My gskill 6400c32 needs that to run a similar clocks but I cant run tcl 30 need to go to 32 over 6400 or unstable with tighter subs.
> 
> Have you used any other ddr5 thats better or to compare? I only have 2 kits so a small sample size.


Not yet, I've gskill 6000C36 (Samsung) which does 6400C32 tight with ≈1.43, never tried to push them and the Kingston one


----------



## ilmazzo

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Guys, is it worth keeping GSkill 6400 CL32 RAM 4x16GB? I was thinking stuff that comes out soon might be quad channel or something along the lines.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB Series (Intel XMP) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR5 6400 CL32-39-39-102 1.40V Dual Channel Desktop Memory F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK (Matte Black) at Amazon.com
> 
> 
> Buy G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB Series (Intel XMP) 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin SDRAM DDR5 6400 CL32-39-39-102 1.40V Dual Channel Desktop Memory F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK (Matte Black): Memory - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases
> 
> 
> 
> www.amazon.com


I thought that DDR5 were already "double channel" (2x32bit trasnfer instead of 1x64bit) so a 4 dimm setup like yours is already "acting" like a "4 channel DDR4 setup" .... cheers


----------



## fat4l

Guys...what's like the max 24/7 socket sense value we can use? 1.4V under load?


----------



## Nizzen

fat4l said:


> Guys...what's like the max 24/7 socket sense value we can use? 1.4V under load?


What you are able to cool  That's the max. 1.35v+ load is hard to cool without delid. Thogh it depends on what load you are doing. Only games, and you can go higher.
Personally I don't play Cinebench with 12900k. Playing games only. Have other cpu's for rendering. Read 3090 gpu's


----------



## satinghostrider

My Fury Kit 6000 can run 6800C32 at 1.5V. Before you all start comparing on lottery with one another, remember 4 DIMM boards probably needs more voltage than 2 DIMM boards to run the same speeds. I also have the 6400C32 kit and the Kingston Fury 6000C40 kit turned out to be the better bin, runs cooler as well. Both kits non-RGB and the temp difference is almost 5 degrees under 1usmus TM5 stress testing.

I honestly don't think the G.Skills are worth the price anymore for the high bins with no PMIC thermal pads. Even the cheaper Fury DDR5 kits have PMIC thermals pads. And the design of the heatspreader is such if you run an active fan over it, air goes into the ram modules due to the ventilated fin design on that heatspreader.


----------



## fat4l

Nizzen said:


> What you are able to cool  That's the max. 1.35v+ load is hard to cool without delid. Thogh it depends on what load you are doing. Only games, and you can go higher.
> Personally I don't play Cinebench with 12900k. Playing games only. Have other cpu's for rendering. Read 3090 gpu's


I got delid and direct die so no issues with temps.


So?


----------



## Nizzen

fat4l said:


> I got delid and direct die so no issues with temps.
> 
> 
> So?


Go high or go home 

You will find the wall pretty fast, when 100mhz require extra 0.1v


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

What do you guys think if AMD 7000 chips? Will they be much better than 12th gen Intel?


----------



## SuperMumrik

TheNaitsyrk said:


> What do you guys think if AMD 7000 chips? Will they be much better than 12th gen Intel?


Hold my beer!!


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

SuperMumrik said:


> Hold my beer!!
> View attachment 2562653


Any news from the all-knowing ball?


----------



## Nizzen

Groove2013 said:


> Raptor will have even higher frequency than Alder and that with more powerful cores, altough still on same 10 nm + 36 MB L3 cache, instead of 30 currently, and 16 E-cores.


16 cores to disabled instead of 8 🤣


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

You pay for the e core and you have to turn off it to get the performance you want.


----------



## Alberto_It

Version 1505
2022/06/02 11.22 MBytes
ROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME BIOS 1505
"1. Improve DRAM stability



https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/BIOS/ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-EXTREME-ASUS-1505.zip



Versione 1505
2022/06/02 10.9 MBytes
ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX BIOS 1505
"1. Improve DRAM stability



https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/BIOS/ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-1505.zip




Versione 1505
2022/06/02 11.12 MBytes
ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO BIOS 1505
"1. Improve DRAM stability



https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/BIOS/ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-HERO-ASUS-1505.zip



Version 1505
2022/06/02 10.91 MBytes
ROG MAXIMUS Z690 FORMULA BIOS 1505
"1. Improve DRAM stability 



https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/BIOS/ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-FORMULA-ASUS-1505.zip


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Alberto_It said:


> Version 1505
> 2022/06/02 11.22 MBytes
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME BIOS 1505
> "1. Improve DRAM stability
> 
> 
> 
> https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/BIOS/ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-EXTREME-ASUS-1505.zip
> 
> 
> 
> Versione 1505
> 2022/06/02 10.9 MBytes
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX BIOS 1505
> "1. Improve DRAM stability
> 
> 
> 
> https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/BIOS/ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-1505.zip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Versione 1505
> 2022/06/02 11.12 MBytes
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO BIOS 1505
> "1. Improve DRAM stability
> 
> 
> 
> https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/BIOS/ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-HERO-ASUS-1505.zip


No Formula?


----------



## Alberto_It

TheNaitsyrk said:


> No Formula?


Yes i update now


----------



## Nizzen

Posted one week ago 

ROG MAXIMUS Z690 Series Beta Bios 1505

01. Improve system performance.
ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO BETA BIOS 1505
https://drive.google.com/.../1f.../view...
ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO EVA BETA BIOS 1505
https://drive.google.com/.../1YjfZRyLzfFbvV1Nnhan.../view...
ROG MAXIMUS Z690 FORMULA BETA BIOS 1505
https://drive.google.com/.../1CtzLniKy5RjvToIrK7W.../view...
ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX BETA BIOS 1505
https://drive.google.com/.../19AzhxZoYF.../view...
ROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME BETA BIOS 1505
https://drive.google.com/.../12iHwLkyfv8Ff6rrxxD1.../view...
ROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME GLACIAL BETA BIOS 1505
https://drive.google.com/.../1a0Iw9E1dvh8HITr.../view...


----------



## Alberto_It

Nizzen said:


> Posted one week ago
> 
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 Series Beta Bios 1505
> 
> 01. Improve system performance.
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO BETA BIOS 1505
> https://drive.google.com/.../1f.../view...
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 HERO EVA BETA BIOS 1505
> https://drive.google.com/.../1YjfZRyLzfFbvV1Nnhan.../view...
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 FORMULA BETA BIOS 1505
> https://drive.google.com/.../1CtzLniKy5RjvToIrK7W.../view...
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 APEX BETA BIOS 1505
> https://drive.google.com/.../19AzhxZoYF.../view...
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME BETA BIOS 1505
> https://drive.google.com/.../12iHwLkyfv8Ff6rrxxD1.../view...
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME GLACIAL BETA BIOS 1505
> https://drive.google.com/.../1a0Iw9E1dvh8HITr.../view...


_


Spoiler



BETA


_


----------



## Nizzen

Last Msi Unify X beta bios:


20. may 2022 







MEG Z690 UNIFY-XA42.rar







drive.google.com


----------



## sniperpowa

I took my 12900ks on ln2 for about three sessions last week. Probably my favorite chip cold. Went up to 7.1 on all pcores and ran r23 at 6.7/6.6 pcores and 5.3 e cores.


----------



## jeiselramos

Nizzen said:


> Last Msi Unify X beta bios:
> 
> 
> 20. may 2022
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MEG Z690 UNIFY-XA42.rar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


They set round trip latency enable by default
On the previous bios a.30 was disable


----------



## Solohuman

Groove2013 said:


> what is far more interesting for me is more powerful and faster P-cores, better IMC and 20% more L3.


Yep, a gamers dream. Reckon I'll hold out before upgrading again & raptor lake is it! 
Thinking the bugs of a hybrid architecture running in windows 11 will be lessened some what.


----------



## sugi0lover

For those who may have interested in current prices of binned 12900KS in Korean used market, the below 12900KS price is about USD 700.


----------



## nickolp1974

sugi0lover said:


> For those who may have interested in current prices of binned 12900KS in Korean used market, the below 12900KS price is about USD 700.
> View attachment 2562908


jeez, judging by that my KS is worth about $200


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> For those who may have interested in current prices of binned 12900KS in Korean used market, the below 12900KS price is about USD 700.
> View attachment 2562908


Wow, massive depreciation. What about binned K/KF's with AVX-512?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Wow, massive depreciation. What about binned K/KF's with AVX-512?


hard to see binned K/KF with AVX-512 anymore.
The below one was sold at USD 1200 two days ago by my friend.
I had this CPU 6 months ago.









The other 12900K SP91 (P104 E 65) got sold at USD 510.
The price is dropping rapidly.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> hard to see binned K/KF with AVX-512 anymore.
> The below one was sold at USD 1200 two days ago by my friend.
> I had this CPU 6 months ago.
> View attachment 2562911
> 
> 
> The other 12900K SP91 (P104 E 65) got sold at USD 510.
> The price is dropping rapidly.


Maybe people are trying to liquidate because of Raptor Lake coming out soon, and don't want to sit on too many binned chips.
That's probably a good thing for people who _do_ want binned chips, since they'll be able to buy top bins for cheap.
Thanks for informing


----------



## sugi0lover

I just ran quick test with Linx since it's not necessary for my usage. 
The last cycle ended with an error but I don't mind LOL.
Gflops is over 900.
○ Cores : all cores (P 5.4Ghz, E 4.3Ghz, Cache 4.3Ghz) 
○ Ram OC : 7200Mhz-30-41-40-28-310-2T 
○ MB : Z690 Apex 
○ Voltages (actual at load) : Core 1.217v / Sa 1.15v

[This is with Hwinfo running, so Gflops is around 890] 










[This is without Hwinfo running, so Gflops is over 900]


----------



## fat4l

sugi0lover said:


> hard to see binned K/KF with AVX-512 anymore.
> The below one was sold at USD 1200 two days ago by my friend.
> I had this CPU 6 months ago.
> View attachment 2562911
> 
> 
> The other 12900K SP91 (P104 E 65) got sold at USD 510.
> The price is dropping rapidly.


What was the difference between that cpu and the one you have now?


----------



## sugi0lover

fat4l said:


> What was the difference between that cpu and the one you have now?


maybe IMC


----------



## chentj1988

sugi0lover said:


> I just ran quick test with Linx since it's not necessary for my usage.
> The last cycle ended with an error but I don't mind LOL.
> Gflops is over 900.
> ○ Cores : all cores (P 5.4Ghz, E 4.3Ghz, Cache 4.3Ghz)
> ○ Ram OC : 7200Mhz-30-41-40-28-310-2T
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex
> ○ Voltages (actual at load) : Core 1.217v / Sa 1.15v
> 
> [This is with Hwinfo running, so Gflops is around 890]
> View attachment 2562935
> 
> 
> 
> [This is without Hwinfo running, so Gflops is over 900]
> View attachment 2562937


Mind to share your Memory subtiming? 🤤


----------



## sugi0lover

chentj1988 said:


> Mind to share your Memory subtiming? 🤤


No problem!


----------



## chibi

Anyone have a link to the MEG z690 Unify ITX latest beta bios? Thank you


----------



## spin5000

jomama22 said:


> Lastly, that sp94 chip is not worth 900 pounds, or roughly $1150. You should also clarify it is delided and has 0 warranty.





TheNaitsyrk said:


> It's already been sold but thanks.
> 
> Also don't translate pounds to dollars because it has 0 meaning.


Really? So that 12900KS on eBay isn't yours since you supposedly sold it? It's delided, from England, and has the exact same overall, p-core, and e-core SP ratings as yours


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

spin5000 said:


> Really? So that 12900KS on eBay isn't yours since you supposedly sold it? It's delided, from England, and has the exact same overall, p-core, and e-core SP ratings as yours


The buyer retracted. But I have 6 watchers now so shouldn't be long.


----------



## fat4l

sugi0lover said:


> maybe IMC


and in terms of OC ? was it kind of the same ? 

BTW on your forum,s is there any interesting KS chips capable of 5.6G or any SP 105+ p core KS chips ?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Tried all core 5.6Ghz stable 10 runs CB R23 in continuous loop. Added two cores to make single core even better to 5.8Ghz (will try 5.9)


----------



## sugi0lover

fat4l said:


> and in terms of OC ? was it kind of the same ?
> 
> BTW on your forum,s is there any interesting KS chips capable of 5.6G or any SP 105+ p core KS chips ?


I saw a couple of P SP 105+ KS. This is the highest P SP KS I saw, which my friend owns.


----------



## fat4l

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Don't think so, each mobo acts differently could be a spike.
> 
> Guys, look at this RAM from Corsair: https://www.corsair.com/uk/en/Categ...-RGB-DDR5-Memory---Black/p/CMT32GX5M2X6600C32
> 
> Thoughts?


This one is being delivered soon


----------



## fat4l

sugi0lover said:


> I saw a couple of P SP 105+ KS. This is the highest P SP KS I saw, which my friend owns.
> View attachment 2563025


 yeah but any for sale ?  the market for high binned KS chips seems to be pretty low


----------



## sugi0lover

fat4l said:


> yeah but any for sale ?  the market for high binned KS chips seems to be pretty low


Not high binned one for sale. The one I posted below P SP 104 KS got sold quickly.
High binned KS chips got sold very well since the price has decreased so much.


sugi0lover said:


> For those who may have interested in current prices of binned 12900KS in Korean used market, the below 12900KS price is about USD 700.
> View attachment 2562908


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

fat4l said:


> This one is being delivered soon


I trust GSkill more haha


----------



## Nizzen

chibi said:


> Anyone have a link to the MEG z690 Unify ITX latest beta bios? Thank you








MEG Z690I UNIFY141.rar







drive.google.com


----------



## chibi

Nizzen said:


> MEG Z690I UNIFY141.rar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


Official MSI now has v142 for Unify ITX. I think this one is newer.






MSI MEG Z690I UNIFY Gaming Motherboard ITX - Intel 12th Gen - 10+1+1 Phase, DDR5, PCIe 5.0


The MEG Z690I UNIFY mini-ITX motherboard unlocks the full potential of the Intel Z690 chipset by combining elite hardware system support and an ultra-compact layout to create an outstanding mini-ITX platform for overclocking or extreme gaming.




www.msi.com


----------



## satinghostrider

Just setup a KS for a customer.

Was pleasantly shocked with the recent KS I got.
Realised both sets I have is Vietnam CPUs.
SP97 (BIOS : Official 1505)
P-Core : 106
E-Core : 82

Hard Lesson : Staff did washer mod for 2022 Glacial. Memory XMP kept boot cycling.
Removed the washer and all back to normal.
View attachment 2563119


----------



## affxct

Okay, so I finally got an Apex after an eternity XD.

I flashed the 0061 modded 0x15 ucode version via EZFlash because I was hoping it'd give me a prompt offering to flash the secondary chip as well. Unfortunately it didn't, however EZFlash didn't seem to mind the modded BIOS file.

The board is a Nov 2021 version, but upon inspection, solder joints looked good and the etching looked better than in the picture that Skullbringer put up on Igor's Lab that gave an example of common M0EAY0 bad QC.

Not too sure why it was returned as XMP 6400Mbps seems to be stable on 0061. I need help though guys. This board doesn't have warranty and it would be near impossible for me to get another one; from what I understand there's an ME conflict that causes your board to essentially brick itself if you flick to the secondary BIOS. I have 0061 ucode15 on the primary, but not sure how to get it onto secondary.

Would it work if I turned the PSU off, pushed the BIOS switch (terrible mechanism btw), and then turned the PSU on and used Q-Flash to do the second one before booting? What do you guys think?


----------



## IronAge

Push Button while PSU is on and System Powered Down, Powerup and enter UEFI / EZflash.

When it freezes during flash of an area do not use PSU switch but hold Power Button until it shuts down and power up again and stay calm, it can pickup / recover the flash.

(that happened today with my Apex since i forgot to restore defaults before flashing. I flashed 2nd Bios from 9902 to 0061)


----------



## chentj1988

IronAge said:


> Push Button while PSU is on and System Powered Down, Powerup and enter UEFI / EZflash.
> 
> When it freezes during flash of an area do not use PSU switch but hold Power Button until it shuts down and power up again and stay calm, it can pickup / recover the flash.
> 
> (that happened today with my Apex since i forgot to restore defaults before flashing.)


Which Apex bios version is the best for RAM Oc? Any suggestion?


----------



## affxct

IronAge said:


> Push Button while PSU is on and System Powered Down, Powerup and enter UEFI / EZflash.
> 
> When it freezes during flash of an area do not use PSU switch but hold Power Button until it shuts down and power up again and stay calm, it can pickup / recover the flash.
> 
> (that happened today with my Apex since i forgot to restore defaults before flashing. I flashed 2nd Bios from 9902 to 0061)


I ended up using Flackback before powering up on the secondary chip. The update worked and I checked to see if I could enter BIOS. I indeed could, and the primary is still fine. I think the best thing to do is not power up the moment you hit the BIOS switch. I totally guessed it and by no means was I certain of the outcome. I'm thankful it worked though and I hope it helps someone else.

For clarification:
Received board from Amazon warehouse. Board had 0090 on BIOS #1. #2 presumably had the release BIOS. Used EZFlash within UEFI to go from 0090->0061, and then used Q-Flash Flashback to go from retail BIOS->0061 on the second chip.


----------



## affxct

chentj1988 said:


> Which Apex bios version is the best for RAM Oc? Any suggestion?


1304/0061

Use the modded versions if you own a 512 chip.


----------



## IronAge

chentj1988 said:


> Which Apex bios version is the best for RAM Oc? Any suggestion?


People with a good Apex told me 0086 was good for achieving 7000+ with Hynix IC and I seen good results with 9902 in hwbot forum posts.

I will switch from G7400 (which does not post with more than 6666) and try if my unopened 12900K will post with 6800.

I have my doubts since it is a 2021-11, but DIMM slot soldering points look better than the ones of the first Apex I bought @3rd of November, at least I got the Cashback for that after over 2 1/2 monthes and sending three emails to promotion team.


----------



## Nizzen

chentj1988 said:


> Which Apex bios version is the best for RAM Oc? Any suggestion?


0061 looks to be the best, because it's done by Asus inhouse overclocker  But best for him, doesn't mean best for everyone.

BIOS Ver. 0061

fix minor bugs and increase memory overclock capability.

fix ivr vddq voltage can’t set issue.



ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-0061.CAP

With My Apex, I can do 7000+ on pretty much every bios


----------



## chentj1988

Nizzen said:


> 0061 looks to be the best, because it's done by Asus inhouse overclocker  But best for him, doesn't mean best for everyone.
> 
> BIOS Ver. 0061
> 
> fix minor bugs and increase memory overclock capability.
> 
> fix ivr vddq voltage can’t set issue.
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-0061.CAP


Im going to try 0086 and also 0061. Im currently using 1403, my problem is that even if I pass the tm5 test today, tomorrow I might fail the same setting. My apex can Post at 7000 Cr1/2, but to make it stable it looks like impossible. And G.Skill has awkward temperature.


----------



## Nizzen

chentj1988 said:


> My apex can post at 7000mhz, but to get it stable it is pain in ass. Currently using 1403. My problem is that even today if I passed the TM5 test, tomorrow I might fail the same timing. Not sure is it my motherboard problem or my Ram problem, but
> 
> Im going to try 0086 and also 0061. Im currently using 1403, my problem is that even if I pass the tm5 test today, tomorrow I might fail the same setting. My apex can Post at 7000 Cr1/2, but to make it stable it looks like impossible. And G.Skill has awkward temperature.


When the memory settings is stable, do a full shutdown. Go into bios and turn on fastboot. This makes the MB not train the memory every boot  This does the trick for many that has first stable setting, then after boot has unstable settings.


Some "pro" tips:

SenseAmp Offset Training [Disabled]
Read Timing Centering 1D [Enabled]
Round Trip Latency [Enabled]
Turn Around Timing Training [Disabled]


----------



## IronAge

Nizzen said:


> With My Apex, I can do 7000+ on pretty much every bios


seems like you somehow earned it, also seems like a fair game to brag about your cherry picked sample and mock about buyers of mediocre retail boards.


----------



## Nizzen

IronAge said:


> seems like you somewhow earned it, also seems like a fair game to brag about your cherry picked sample and mock about buyers of mediocre retail boards.


Sorry for everything <3


----------



## IronAge

Nizzen said:


> Sorry for everything <3


no offence dude, i appreciate your posts helping users, at the same time i sometimes feel like the donkey.


Spoiler














that guy represents Asus product marketing.


----------



## affxct

On the initial 0090 BIOS my board shipped with, the XMP (that my Taichi passed Linpack with EZ), hard locked on the Apex (I didn't have time to test my new Hynix with my new downgraded SP i9 so I ran XMP for like 8 days on my Taichi). On 0061 I was able to use the PC for like 5 hours with no hitches, but it error'd out in y-cruncher N64.

The auto values of VCCSA/VDD2 on the Taichi and Apex are vastly different, yet I know the kit is good for it. So what then? Ship the Apex back off to UK and complain? I mean the Taichi is still sitting in the corner as my friend hasn't purchased it off me yet.

No, just as with my Z690-F and the weeks it took to get it to behave the way in which I wanted it to, this Apex will be no different.

Just stay positive guys. You will find the correct values. It's all just a matter of that drive rail being interpreted correctly once that voltage hits the data pins. For some reason Asus boards don't really know how to figure it out, but you can force them to.


----------



## centvalny

fat4l said:


> This one is being delivered soon


Good if it boot up 7466c32 ambient any voltages


----------



## satinghostrider

9902 works well for me so far.
If you have a KS, you probably need later versions.


----------



## spin5000

Which ASUS motherboards give an SP rating on 12th gen Intel? Is it true it's only ASUS motherboards with "ROG" in their title?
I heard that MSI and/or Gigabyte offer this too now. Is it with all their boards? Only certain lines?
If MSI and/or Gigabyte do offer this, are the SP ratings comparable to ASUS or is it possible for one company's MB to label a chip as, let's say, average, while another company's MB labels the same chip great?

P.S. Looking for a DDR4 Z690 board to go with my 12900KS.


----------



## bscool

spin5000 said:


> Which ASUS motherboards give an SP rating on 12th gen Intel? Is it true it's only ASUS motherboards with "ROG" in their title?
> I heard that MSI and/or Gigabyte offer this too now. Is it with all their boards? Only certain lines?
> If MSI and/or Gigabyte do offer this, are the SP ratings comparable to ASUS or is it possible for one company's MB to label a chip as, let's say, average, while another company's MB labels the same chip great?
> 
> P.S. Looking for a DDR4 Z690 board to go with my 12900KS.


The only z690 ddr4 I know of that offers SP from Asus is Strix d4.

MSI rating is dependent on CPU temps also from what I have heard so even throws in more variables. Gigabyte uses bisciuts I think? None of them can be compared.

Even on Asus a lower SP cpu might actually OC better in actual tesing than a higher SP. But SP gives you an idea of what to expect.


----------



## Ichirou

spin5000 said:


> Which ASUS motherboards give an SP rating on 12th gen Intel? Is it true it's only ASUS motherboards with "ROG" in their title?
> I heard that MSI and/or Gigabyte offer this too now. Is it with all their boards? Only certain lines?
> If MSI and/or Gigabyte do offer this, are the SP ratings comparable to ASUS or is it possible for one company's MB to label a chip as, let's say, average, while another company's MB labels the same chip great?
> 
> P.S. Looking for a DDR4 Z690 board to go with my 12900KS.


Only ASUS boards provide SP scores right now.

MSI _kind of_ has a means to allow you to estimate silicon quality, but it's really not that great. However, the BIOS does tell you what your strongest cores are, so that's something.
You'd save more time just running it through Cinebench or y-cruncher to find the minimum Vcore needed to be stable.


----------



## spin5000

OK, and does any one know if the inexpensive DDR4 boards like the MSI Pro Z690-A will limit my 12900KS and RAM overclock compared to higher-end MBs like the Asus ROG Strix D4, MSI MPG Edge, Gigabyte Aorus Pro, etc.?

I'm planning on either purchasing 32GB (2x 16GB) dual-rank B-die 4000 MHz 16-16-16-36 1.45v or 4400 MHz 17-18-18-38 1.50v. My goal is to overclock/tighten to at least 4000 14-15-15-35 but will settle for Cl15. If the 12900KS IMC & MB can handle above 4000 in gear 1 mode, then I'll try higher (eg. 4133, 4266, 4400) but if 4000 is the max, then I'm aiming for 4000 @ 14-15-15-35. Will the lower-end boards like the MSI Pro Z690-A hold me back compared to the higher-end ones I mentioned above?

And what about for CPU overclocking?


----------



## bscool

spin5000 said:


> OK, and does any one know if the inexpensive DDR4 boards like the MSI Pro Z690-A will limit my 12900KS and RAM overclock compared to higher-end MBs like the Asus ROG Strix D4, MSI MPG Edge, Gigabyte Aorus Pro, etc.?
> 
> I'm planning on either purchasing 32GB (2x 16GB) dual-rank B-die 4000 MHz 16-16-16-36 1.45v or 4400 MHz 17-18-18-38 1.50v. My goal is to overclock/tighten to at least 4000 14-15-15-35 but will settle for Cl15. If the 12900KS IMC & MB can handle above 4000 in gear 1 mode, then I'll try higher (eg. 4133, 4266, 4400) but if 4000 is the max, then I'm aiming for 4000 @ 14-15-15-35. Will the lower-end boards like the MSI Pro Z690-A hold me back compared to the higher-end ones I mentioned above?


MSI A is a good MB for DDR4 DR b die memory OC.

IMC will most likely be the limit/weak link.


----------



## Ichirou

spin5000 said:


> OK, and does any one know if the inexpensive DDR4 boards like the MSI Pro Z690-A will limit my 12900KS and RAM overclock compared to higher-end MBs like the Asus ROG Strix D4, MSI MPG Edge, Gigabyte Aorus Pro, etc.?
> 
> I'm planning on either purchasing 32GB (2x 16GB) dual-rank B-die 4000 MHz 16-16-16-36 1.45v or 4400 MHz 17-18-18-38 1.50v. My goal is to overclock/tighten to at least 4000 14-15-15-35 but will settle for Cl15. If the 12900KS IMC & MB can handle above 4000 in gear 1 mode, then I'll try higher (eg. 4133, 4266, 4400) but if 4000 is the max, then I'm aiming for 4000 @ 14-15-15-35. Will the lower-end boards like the MSI Pro Z690-A hold me back compared to the higher-end ones I mentioned above?
> 
> And what about for CPU overclocking?


I've tested five different 12900's so far and all of them will do 4,000 CL14 stable. It's going above that will be the issue.
Motherboard shouldn't hold you back; it mostly boils down to the IMC.


----------



## spin5000

Thanks.
Unfortunately, due to MSI and ASUS both using plagued-with-problems ALC4080 USB audio or low-end ALC897, it looks like I'm stuck with only 4 motherboard options: Gigabyte Aorus Elite, Gigabyte Gaming X, and the "v2" versions of both. These boards have the ALC1220 audio which the other high-end boards SHOULD have used. It's basically equivalent to the ALC4080 but isn't plagued with problems due to not being USB. It's the sole reason I upgraded from my previous Z590 Aorus Ultra (ALC4080) to the Z590 Aorus Master (ALC1220) and I can't believe the digital optical out problems with ALC4080/4082 still continue from Z590 to Z690 - what a joke! Realtek should have never went with USB!

Sorry for the rant.

That leads me to the following: I've read about quite a few people having DDR4 RAM issues with the Z690 Gigabyte boards from 5-7 months ago with regards to speeds. Have those issues been resolved? Can I expect to do dual-rank B-die 4000 Mhz C14 with my 12900KS on Gigabyte boards like I can with ASUS & MSI? Or do the Gigabyte and low RAM speeds issue still exist today with current BIOSs?


----------



## bscool

spin5000 said:


> Thanks.
> Unfortunately, due to MSI and ASUS both using plagued-with-problems ALC4080 USB audio or low-end ALC897, it looks like I'm stuck with only 4 motherboard options: Gigabyte Aorus Elite, Gigabyte Gaming X, and the "v2" versions of both. These boards have the ALC1220 audio which the other high-end boards SHOULD have used. It's basically equivalent to the ALC4080 but isn't plagued with problems due to not being USB. It's the sole reason I upgraded from my previous Z590 Aorus Ultra to the Z590 Aorus Master and I can't believe the digital optical out problems with ALC4080/4082 still continue from Z590 to Z690 - what a joke.
> 
> Sorry for the rant.
> 
> That leads me to the following: I've read about quite a few people having DDR4 RAM issues with the Z690 Gigabyte boards from 5-7 months ago. Have those issues been resolved? Can I expect to do dual-rank 4000 Mhz C14 with my 12900KS on Gigabyte boards like I can with ASUS & MSI?


I havent kept up lately but from what I have seen I wouldnt count on it. I have never seen anyone on Gigabyte z690 running that with DR. Maybe there are but I havent seen it.

I have seen some 4000 gear 1 but I think they were looser timings like c16 maybe c15.


----------



## satinghostrider

spin5000 said:


> Thanks.
> Unfortunately, due to MSI and ASUS both using plagued-with-problems ALC4080 USB audio or low-end ALC897, it looks like I'm stuck with only 4 motherboard options: Gigabyte Aorus Elite, Gigabyte Gaming X, and the "v2" versions of both. These boards have the ALC1220 audio which the other high-end boards SHOULD have used. It's basically equivalent to the ALC4080 but isn't plagued with problems due to not being USB. It's the sole reason I upgraded from my previous Z590 Aorus Ultra (ALC4080) to the Z590 Aorus Master (ALC1220) and I can't believe the digital optical out problems with ALC4080/4082 still continue from Z590 to Z690 - what a joke! Realtek should have never went with USB!
> 
> Sorry for the rant.
> 
> That leads me to the following: I've read about quite a few people having DDR4 RAM issues with the Z690 Gigabyte boards from 5-7 months ago with regards to speeds. Have those issues been resolved? Can I expect to do dual-rank B-die 4000 Mhz C14 with my 12900KS on Gigabyte boards like I can with ASUS & MSI? Or do the Gigabyte and low RAM speeds issue still exist today with current BIOSs?


What problems are you having with ALC4080? I have absolutely no issues with them thus far. I am aware there is some static on Optical out on the latest driver posted on Asus forums but the one listed on the website works fine so far for me.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

I'd just buy a audio PCI-e card and done deal. That's my plan at least.


----------



## Nizzen

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I'd just buy a audio PCI-e card and done deal. That's my plan at least.


Usb dac/amp is allways the best. 
3090 gpu, 12900k binned cpu, 7000mhz ddr5 and integrated audio? No f. Way 🤣

I'm using Schiit Jotunheim dac and Focal Elear headphones.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Nizzen said:


> Usb dac/amp is allways the best.
> 3090 gpu, 12900k binned cpu, 7000mhz ddr5 and integrated audio? No f. Way 🤣
> 
> I'm using Schiit Jotunheim dac and Focal Elear headphones.


I'm not an audiophile, I'm fine with dedicated audio. X299 EVGA Dark had an amazing integrated audio this Z690 Formula is beyond crap in audio dept.


----------



## ajolly

What's the max voltage people are seeing out of AI tweaker? Just installed this KS, and I think I got unlucky with the bin: 
SP 87, p-core 92.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

ajolly said:


> What's the max voltage people are seeing out of AI tweaker? Just installed this KS, and I think I got unlucky with the bin:
> SP 87, p-core 92.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2563203


Yeah it's not great.


----------



## z390e

Got 5.3 dialed in much lower voltage override setting still have a lot of room, temps staying low 80s with Liquid Freezer AIO 420. Not sure how much change in temps I will see when I move to direct die + soft tubed custom rig + chiller.


----------



## IronAge

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Yeah it's not great.


would not keep it, that's not what you spend ~800$ for, has ~50mV on top of the better samples, not to speak of the pearls.


----------



## Simkin

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I'd just buy a audio PCI-e card and done deal. That's my plan at least.


Using Sound Blaster AE-9 PCIe myself. Amazing card in both gaming and music. Positioning in gaming is awesome, great card for music aswell, can power up to 600Ohm headset. (Im using DT1770 Pro 250Ohm and Philips X2HR)

In the Sound Blaster control panel you can adjust alot audio wise, but also alot of adjustments to microphone aswell. Nice bonus is the control module on the desktop to connect two headsets and two mic.


----------



## Ichirou

spin5000 said:


> Thanks.
> Unfortunately, due to MSI and ASUS both using plagued-with-problems ALC4080 USB audio or low-end ALC897, it looks like I'm stuck with only 4 motherboard options: Gigabyte Aorus Elite, Gigabyte Gaming X, and the "v2" versions of both. These boards have the ALC1220 audio which the other high-end boards SHOULD have used. It's basically equivalent to the ALC4080 but isn't plagued with problems due to not being USB. It's the sole reason I upgraded from my previous Z590 Aorus Ultra (ALC4080) to the Z590 Aorus Master (ALC1220) and I can't believe the digital optical out problems with ALC4080/4082 still continue from Z590 to Z690 - what a joke! Realtek should have never went with USB!
> 
> Sorry for the rant.
> 
> That leads me to the following: I've read about quite a few people having DDR4 RAM issues with the Z690 Gigabyte boards from 5-7 months ago with regards to speeds. Have those issues been resolved? Can I expect to do dual-rank B-die 4000 Mhz C14 with my 12900KS on Gigabyte boards like I can with ASUS & MSI? Or do the Gigabyte and low RAM speeds issue still exist today with current BIOSs?


Just use a proper DAC (and amp if necessary). Don't rely on onboard solutions. Good ones can be had under $100.


----------



## xGeNeSisx

Finally started playing with overclocking my 12600k on an MSI z690 Pro-A DDR4. I was able to hit 5.3ghz, but there is a very large voltage increase necessary when compared to 5.2ghz. Hitting 85-90C max isn't worth it along with needing 1.3-1.32V. When I decide to delid and potentially go direct die I will revisit higher clock speeds. 5.2ghz is possible on 1.24V and I'm working on getting that lower. Temps are between 65-70C which is not too bad. I have overclocked E-cores and cache freq to 4.2ghz, it seems 4.4ghz on both would require an increase in voltage which isn't really worth it. Maybe I'll play with e-cores and cache a bit more and then work on tightening my DRAM timings. I have 32gb (2x16gb) of Corsair 3600mhz DDR4 CL18. From my previous experience, Corsair sticks don't do well when trying to achieve a higher frequency, so I'll stick to tightening timings.


----------



## SuperNuts

Hi all, I have not overclocked a system since ddr3. Looks like this new platform just overclocks via core ratio multiplier, is that right? I have an ASUS z690-e along with g.skill ddr 5 pc6400 RAM (F5-6400J3239G16GA2-TZ5RK). XMP is not stable with the RAM at 6400mhz, but is stable at 6000mhz with AI overclocking. I have read that the 12900kf IMC is advertised at 4800mhz, but I see a lot of people able to achieve 6400. What gives, what do I need to change to get my RAM stable at 6400mhz? Is it possible to OC the IMC or something? Again reading around it seems like I have not a golden tier but a top tier chip, so I think it should be capable of getting to 6400mhz and maybe higher? My SP score is 97. Liquid Arctic Freeze II AIO if that matters at all, temps are good ~23-26c idle.


----------



## ajolly

IronAge said:


> would not keep it, that's not what you spend ~800$ for, has ~50mV on top of the better samples, not to speak of the pearls.


Sadly I bought it two months ago, just life got in the way and I had not had time to install it before now. 

Is there a max daily OC vcore suggested, assuming if I can get the heat down? I've got it connected to a nexxxos 1260 supernova, and I could add a chiller if needed. 
Alternatively: Is SP / AI-OC influenced by mount quality? I did a mild washer mod on it for the install. 

Have not gotten it to run at xmpp levels either, but thats likely because of the 128gb of ram.


----------



## SoldierRBT

ajolly said:


> What's the max voltage people are seeing out of AI tweaker? Just installed this KS, and I think I got unlucky with the bin:
> SP 87, p-core 92.
> 
> 
> View attachment 2563203


You need to test it. SP doesn't mean much. My KS is also SP87 and it does 10 min R23 53 E42 R44 1.181v underload Max Temp 80C on stock IHS. I had another SP89 which was very bad. 

If it's average just do direct die, it'll perform like a SP100


----------



## warbucks

SoldierRBT said:


> You need to test it. SP doesn't mean much. My KS is also SP87 and it does 10 min R23 53 E42 R44 1.181v underload Max Temp 80C on stock IHS. I had another SP89 which was very bad.
> 
> If it's average just do direct die, it'll perform like a SP100


This right here. I have a SP81 KS and I can hit 6800CL30 without any issues including tight secondary/teritiary timings on my Unify-X. I'm testing CL28 right now. It'll do 5.2 all core daily with reasonable voltage, 4.1 e-cores and 4.2 cache. You really need to test your chips and not base it solely off of SP score.


----------



## MaZo

Hello,

I currently have this overclock setting in my 12900KS for everyday use (gaming mostly) with AIO cooler:


































I would like to ask you if you see something that is wrong or if it could be improved... The voltages are adaptive... Would it be better to set it fixed for example?

Thanks.


----------



## nickolp1974

MaZo said:


> Hello,
> 
> I currently have this overclock setting in my 12900KS for everyday use (gaming mostly) with AIO cooler:
> 
> View attachment 2563262
> 
> View attachment 2563265
> 
> View attachment 2563266
> 
> View attachment 2563267
> 
> 
> I would like to ask you if you see something that is wrong or if it could be improved... The voltages are adaptive... Would it be better to set it fixed for example?
> 
> Thanks.


can you run cinebench R23 and post results with those settings??


----------



## Nizzen

MaZo said:


> Hello,
> 
> I currently have this overclock setting in my 12900KS for everyday use (gaming mostly) with AIO cooler:
> 
> View attachment 2563262
> 
> View attachment 2563265
> 
> View attachment 2563266
> 
> View attachment 2563267
> 
> 
> I would like to ask you if you see something that is wrong or if it could be improved... The voltages are adaptive... Would it be better to set it fixed for example?
> 
> Thanks.


Try Battlefield 2042 2 hours and repport back temps with Hwinfo open  Most likely it will throttle. If not, you are one lucky person


----------



## z390e

@MaZo Those settings seem incredibly optimistic, imo, download Benchmate and run CB23 with those settings, and click 'Save Result' in Benchmate after, then post the picture here.






BenchMate







benchmate.org


----------



## MaZo

Nizzen said:


> Try Battlefield 2042 2 hours and repport back temps with Hwinfo open  Most likely it will throttle. If not, you are one lucky person


So far I haven't seen thermal throttling in the ones I've played, but I'll test with heavier games and check.
Thanks.


----------



## MaZo

z390e said:


> @MaZo Those settings seem incredibly optimistic, imo, download Benchmate and run CB23 with those settings, and click 'Save Result' in Benchmate after, then post the picture here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BenchMate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> benchmate.org


I have it set up like this for gaming. I don't think I can pass CB with the AIO I have installed on it. Also where I live it is quite hot at this time. I prefer to settle for it to work in games and not risk trying CB... If one day I put custom+direct die on it, I'll try it


----------



## ObviousCough

My 12900KS did multiple passes of R23 at 1.2v


















It may be a while before i can play with the IMC 





edit: Got my 30 minute stability run done. All i've done is set 1.2v override in the bios and enable XMP. Everything else is Auto/stock.


----------



## Falkentyne

affxct said:


> Okay, so I finally got an Apex after an eternity XD.
> 
> I flashed the 0061 modded 0x15 ucode version via EZFlash because I was hoping it'd give me a prompt offering to flash the secondary chip as well. Unfortunately it didn't, however EZFlash didn't seem to mind the modded BIOS file.
> 
> The board is a Nov 2021 version, but upon inspection, solder joints looked good and the etching looked better than in the picture that Skullbringer put up on Igor's Lab that gave an example of common M0EAY0 bad QC.
> 
> Not too sure why it was returned as XMP 6400Mbps seems to be stable on 0061. I need help though guys. This board doesn't have warranty and it would be near impossible for me to get another one; from what I understand there's an ME conflict that causes your board to essentially brick itself if you flick to the secondary BIOS. I have 0061 ucode15 on the primary, but not sure how to get it onto secondary.
> 
> Would it work if I turned the PSU off, pushed the BIOS switch (terrible mechanism btw), and then turned the PSU on and used Q-Flash to do the second one before booting? What do you guys think?


You switch between primary and secondary just by pressing the bios 'switch' pushbutton with the PSU powered on in the back (but the system powered off)
It's the Embedded Controller that controls which BIOS is active. On older boards, you could override it with an onboard jumper (usually for hardware force flashing with an Elmor or SPI device) without the button (only for emergency hardware flash).


----------



## affxct

Falkentyne said:


> You switch between primary and secondary just by pressing the bios 'switch' pushbutton with the PSU powered on in the back (but the system powered off)
> It's the Embedded Controller that controls which BIOS is active. On older boards, you could override it with an onboard jumper (usually for hardware force flashing with an Elmor or SPI device) without the button (only for emergency hardware flash).


I just went for the flash on the second chip and thankfully nothing bad happened. I imagine it's to do with me not attempting to boot with that far older BIOS. I went straight for Q-Flash.


----------



## sugi0lover

I had clock down at P 5.5 / E 4.3 / C 4.3 running Linx, but set P 5.6 and Avx512 -1 makes it run P 5.5.
My water temp is too high to run Linx for the long period, but Gflops is over 900 even with Hwinfo running together.


----------



## ObviousCough

1175mv for 5.2GHz. What a monster.









Intel Core i9 12900KS @ 5200 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR


[9tjhvz] Validated Dump by cope (2022-06-08 19:34:36) - MB: MSI MEG Z690 UNIFY-X (MS-7D28) - RAM: 32768 MB




valid.x86.fr


----------



## DSHG87

Hey, I have another 12900KS on MSI Z690 A Pro. Somebody knows, If Vcore in HWiNFO is Die or Socket-sense? And what is VIN3? Its always a bit higher than VCore.


----------



## sugi0lover

ObviousCough said:


> 1175mv for 5.2GHz. What a monster.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9 12900KS @ 5200 MHz - CPU-Z VALIDATOR
> 
> 
> [9tjhvz] Validated Dump by cope (2022-06-08 19:34:36) - MB: MSI MEG Z690 UNIFY-X (MS-7D28) - RAM: 32768 MB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> valid.x86.fr


Considering that low temp, that chip is not that highly binned one 


sugi0lover said:


> Here is the quick test at water temp around 25C. For P 5.5Ghz+, I adjusted E cores and Cache for my actual usage.
> View attachment 2562175


----------



## ObviousCough

I haven't found the minimum voltage yet 


The testing i've been able to do has been very light. Tomorrow i'll do some more.


----------



## Nelfhunt

DSHG87 said:


> Hey, I have another 12900KS on MSI Z690 A Pro. Somebody knows, If Vcore in HWiNFO is Die or Socket-sense? And what is VIN3? Its always a bit higher than VCore.


It is Not die sense for sure.
It´s either Socket sense or VCC sense, depends what you have set in BIOS. IIRC VCC sense is set as default.


----------



## chentj1988

I bought a P-core SP105 Ks few days ago, and currently using 57/57/56/56/55/55/53/53. Not yet delided and using thermal paste now. Adaptive -0.075v LLC6 passed 10 mins R23. Compare with my P-core SP110 12900k, this is another level... Below is tested with high priority. I have all the delid tools, was wondering how much will it improves by delidding and Liquid Metal. Any idea? Does it improve my Vmin as well?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> I bought a P-core SP105 Ks few days ago, and currently using 57/57/56/56/55/55/53/53. Not yet delided and using thermal paste now. Adaptive -0.075v LLC6 passed 10 mins R23. Compare with my P-core SP110 12900k, this is another level... Below is tested with high priority. I have all the delid tools, was wondering how much will it improves by delidding and Liquid Metal. Any idea? Does it improve my Vmin as well?
> 
> View attachment 2563373


Delid will improve everything. Lower power consumption too due to cooler chip. My one does 5.6 all core and two cores are 5.8Ghz. Could probably do 3 cores to 5.8Ghz. 5.9Ghz goes too but needs slightly more volts than 1.35V to run so I left it at 5.8


----------



## chentj1988

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Delid will improve everything. Lower power consumption too due to cooler chip. My one does 5.6 all core and two cores are 5.8Ghz. Could probably do 3 cores to 5.8Ghz. 5.9Ghz goes too but needs slightly more volts than 1.35V to run so I left it at 5.8


You are using direct cooling? If yes, how much delta improvement you got? My goal is to do 2x 5.8, 6x 5.5 with llc6 for daily gaming. Was wondering if I can do this without direct cooling kit.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> You are using direct cooling? If yes, how much delta improvement you got? My goal is to do 2x 5.8, 6x 5.5 with llc6 for daily gaming. Was wondering if I can do this without direct cooling kit.


Yes, I got 10c lower. Without direct die depends on your cooling.


----------



## sugi0lover

saw this is how to tell AVX512.


----------



## DSHG87

Something is wrong here. My 12900KS only reaches 4.5GHz Allcore (241W) and 25.000 Cinebench R23 (and bad VIDs, HWinFO up to 1.55V). Temps are okay. My other KS with 241W limit boosts up to 5.2GHz as it schould be (28.500).

Testet both in the same build.


----------



## xGeNeSisx

Has anyone combined the Rockitcool copper IHS with a socket retention mod like the ones from Thermalright/Grizzly? I saw in a review that the copper IHS is larger and had issues when used alongside a replacement ILM. I can't really find any more information regarding this.

Reconfigured my OC settings with 12600k and MSI Z690 PRO-A DDR4. Moved from mode 3 to mode 4 and used lower AC/DC_LL values of 10 and 20 respectively. Voltage is set to adaptive offset with a negative offset of 0.40mV. Vcore is set to 1.345 in BIOS, end result is ~1.28-1.29V being delivered under load. I was able to cut down on overall voltage with a lower LLC setting and refined AC/DC loadline settings. Passed OCCT 1h and am testing again after raising E-cores and ring to 4.0ghz. Seems stable, but still testing it out. 

Unfortunately, my IMC on the 12600k doesn't seem too great. I am running 3600mhz DDR4 at CL18 and cannot tighten timings or run a higher frequency. It appears that my SA voltage is already very high in XMP. Reported voltage is 1.35, so I have no headroom to increase it.


----------



## DSHG87

Oldest Batch? 12900KS X141


----------



## bscool

DSHG87 said:


> Oldest Batch?


Did you check if it has AVX512 if you have old u code?

According to @sugi0lover post Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion if that is accurate it should. Would be a rare 12900ks to have avx512.


----------



## xGeNeSisx

I revamped my settings on my 12600k and MSI Z690, and was able to drop my voltage required for 5.2ghz to 1.28V. It appears I am now able to overclock the RAM. I was able to hit 3800 stable at 19-23-23-45 G1 and am now testing 4000 19-23-23-45 G2 as G1 would not boot. Right now I have SA at 1.35, VDDQ at 1.30, and DRAM voltage at 1.45 and can work on voltages after I determine the max frequency I can achieve. I have always been terrible at overclocking DDR4 and was virtually incapable of taking my kit past stock XMP 3200 on my last Skylake build. Very pleased now that I am figuring it out and making some headway.

With my new settings I can probably work the SA voltage down a bit. While I was trying to get higher frequencies to post the board automatically set 3800 to SA to 1.45 momentarily until I corrected it. Lesson learned to not leave it on auto at higher frequencies.

If I can get my Corsair Vengeance from 3600 CL18 to 4000+ with decent timings, I will be thrilled
Edit: Intended to post this in DDR4 thread


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> Did you check if it has AVX512 if you have old u code?
> 
> According to @sugi0lover post Overclocking ADL - 12900k etc results, bins and discussion if that is accurate it should. Would be a rare 12900ks to have avx512.


Maybe it's an early engineering sample that escaped their warehouse? Or early reviewer sample.
Would be rare and highly valuable if it is also highly binned. But I imagine the same applies for a highly binned K/KF as well.


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> Maybe it's an early engineering sample that escaped their warehouse? Or early reviewer sample.
> Would be rare and highly valuable if it is also highly binned. But I imagine the same applies for a highly binned K/KF as well.


I have seen a screenshot of KS with avx512 (safedisk). Not sure if there are others.









safedisk`s y-cruncher - Pi-1b score: 15sec 771ms with a Core i9 12900KS (8P)


The Core i9 12900KS (8P) @ 6767MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the y-cruncher - Pi-1b benchmark. safediskranks #7 worldwide and #2 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org


----------



## sugi0lover

DSHG87 said:


> Oldest Batch?


The batch number (X141....) tells this KS was manufactued in Week41 2021.
I haven't seen any official KS that manufactured in 2021, so this KS is highly likely ES.


----------



## Ichirou

@bscool @sugi0lover
Yeah, I imagine that it's an engineering sample. Makes sense since safedisk works for ASUS internally.








You can see in CPU-Z that AVX-512F is listed. So it did have AVX-512 support... for some time.
And if you take a look at the Top 5 for the y-cruncher 1b rankings, they _all_ have AVX-512F.
So these are most likely all early samples, or engineering samples.

I imagine that at some point in time in the future, some overclockers will sell their 2021 KS chips, which will be a good time to grab them.


----------



## bscool

sugi0lover said:


> The batch number (X141....) tells this KS was manufactued in Week41 2021.
> I haven't seen any official KS that manufactured in 2021, so this KS is highly likely ES.


Here is another for sale on ebay.









Intel Core i9-12900KS Processor (2.5GHz-5.5GHz 16 Cores LGA 1700) BX8071512900KS for sale online | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Intel Core i9-12900KS Processor (2.5GHz-5.5GHz 16 Cores LGA 1700) BX8071512900KS at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





If they were ES theN I wouldnt think they would have boxes.

When I have seen ES I thought they show ES on the IHS.

Edit IHS show INtel Confidential on ES when I look them up online.


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> Here is another for sale on ebay.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-12900KS Processor (2.5GHz-5.5GHz 16 Cores LGA 1700) BX8071512900KS for sale online | eBay
> 
> 
> Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Intel Core i9-12900KS Processor (2.5GHz-5.5GHz 16 Cores LGA 1700) BX8071512900KS at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
> 
> 
> 
> www.ebay.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If they were ES they I wouldnt think they would have boxes.
> 
> When I have seen ES I thought they show ES on the IHS.
> 
> Edit IHS show INtel Confidential on ES when I look them up online.


Hm. I wonder if anyone's willing to take a bet to see whether or not it's a AVX-512 chip with a good bin?


----------



## Ichirou

I just noticed @TheNaitsyrk 's chip as well. It seems to have a circle on it?
If you're here, mind checking the batch number? It might support AVX-512, which would probably make it even more golden than your current 56x chip, lol.

Imagine if all this time he's been binning chips, he tosses aside a rare AVX-512 enabled chip just because.


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> Hm. I wonder if anyone's willing to take a bet to see whether or not it's a AVX-512 chip with a good bin?


I was tempted but already have too much junk sitting around 

I am guessing it is not a good bin or he wouldnt be selling it anyway. So what good is a low bin KS with avx512. Just get a good k/kf with avx512 for less $ is my thinking.


----------



## Zaudi

sugi0lover said:


> The batch number (X141....) tells this KS was manufactued in Week41 2021.
> I haven't seen any official KS that manufactured in 2021, so this KS is highly likely ES.


I had 6 times 12900KS boxed CPUs‘ here, 4 of them with V150 Batch
Each higher than (Asus SP Core) P-Core 98 (104 and 106)
The two other: V202.

12 Tray 12900KS were all X206 and X208
and bader than P-Core 98.



But I did never checked avx512.
I will do it later today, after work.
V150 P-Core 104 is still here.


----------



## DSHG87

sugi0lover said:


> The batch number (X141....) tells this KS was manufactued in Week41 2021.
> I haven't seen any official KS that manufactured in 2021, so this KS is highly likely ES.


No, it is a boxed CPU, no ES.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> I just noticed @TheNaitsyrk 's chip as well. It seems to have a circle on it?
> If you're here, mind checking the batch number? It might support AVX-512, which would probably make it even more golden than your current 56x chip, lol.
> 
> Imagine if all this time he's been binning chips, he tosses aside a rare AVX-512 enabled chip just because.


I will have a look when at home no problem.


----------



## sugi0lover

This is Prime95 Small FFTs (AVX enabled) for 1 hour pass.
Anyway, prime is easier than Linx with Ram OC tightened.
From P 5.5Ghz with AVX enabled, my system has 100mhz clock down, so I set P 5.6Ghz to run 5.5Ghz at Prime95 AVX enabled.

[System Setup]
○ CPU : 12900K Direct Die (SP103, P115, E79) / all cores (P 5.5G , E 4.3G, Cache 4.5G)
○ Ram : KLEVV Hynix 4800 CL40
○ Ram OC : 7200Mhz-30-41-40-28-310-2T
○ MB : Z690 Apex
○ Voltages (actual under load) : Vcore 1.288v / VDD 1.665v / VDDQ 1.590v / VDDQ TX 1.54 / MC 1.332v / SA 1.150v 
○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM) 









[Real-Time]


----------



## DSHG87

My X141 KS is running on a MSI Motherboard. Is it okay to test the CPU with lower CPU Lite Load Function? Default is 9.


----------



## Talon2016

DSHG87 said:


> My X141 KS is running on a MSI Motherboard. Is it okay to test the CPU with lower CPU Lite Load Function? Default is 9.


Did you check it for AVX 512?


----------



## DSHG87

I did not flash to older BIOS yet. With newest, there ist no AVX512 in CPU-Z after disabling E-Cores. For my MSI PRO Z690 A DDR4 there are only 2(?) BIOS to flash with KS support


----------



## Ichirou

DSHG87 said:


> I did not flash to older BIOS yet. With newest, there ist no AVX512 in CPU-Z after disabling E-Cores. For my MSI PRO Z690 A DDR4 there are only 2(?) BIOS to flash with KS support


I don't know about the PRO, but the EDGE has AVX-512 support on BIOS versions 1.30 and 1.44, which are both for the KS.


----------



## DSHG87

What Vcore for the 12900KS 5.2GHz allcore would be really good?

1.2V for 5.2 P-Core and 4.0 E-Core seems to be stable.


----------



## z390e

@DSHG87 if you run CB23 or CB20 from Benchmate what does it score? For 5.3g I found my floor is ~1.3v, havent tried to find the floor for 5.2 yet but am curious what you find.

edit @sugi0lover have you seen anyone with a higher pcore chip than yours? wow that thing is a beauty


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> I just noticed @TheNaitsyrk 's chip as well. It seems to have a circle on it?
> If you're here, mind checking the batch number? It might support AVX-512, which would probably make it even more golden than your current 56x chip, lol.
> 
> Imagine if all this time he's been binning chips, he tosses aside a rare AVX-512 enabled chip just because.












Looks like the old one may support AVX512.


----------



## DSHG87

@z390e

CB R23 29500 @ 5.2/4.0 1.2V and max. 95° ~250W


----------



## 050

Was looking back through my photos and my 12900ks with sp-p of 106 is also the older IHS markings design (at least, it doesn't have the qr-code like square section at the bottom and the newer square logo.

















I will have to look into if it has AVX512 capability but I'm running an Asus strix z690-e so I am not certain if that's something I'd have to go back to an older bios for. Interesting.








It isn't lit up in hwinfo64 (makes sense) but what is the set of parameters needed to activate it? Just disabling the E cores or something else/more?

Thanks!


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> View attachment 2563510
> 
> 
> Looks like the old one may support AVX512.


Better plop it in and give it some test runs in various benchmarks then.
Would recommend it over your current chip, tbh.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> Better plop it in and give it some test runs in various benchmarks then.
> Would recommend it over your current chip, tbh.


I have no use for AVX 512


----------



## Ichirou

050 said:


> Was looking back through my photos and my 12900ks with sp-p of 106 is also the older IHS markings design (at least, it doesn't have the qr-code like square section at the bottom and the newer square logo.
> View attachment 2563520
> 
> View attachment 2563521
> 
> 
> I will have to look into if it has AVX512 capability but I'm running an Asus strix z690-e so I am not certain if that's something I'd have to go back to an older bios for. Interesting.
> View attachment 2563522
> 
> It isn't lit up in hwinfo64 (makes sense) but what is the set of parameters needed to activate it? Just disabling the E cores or something else/more?
> 
> Thanks!


Kill the E-cores and enable it in the BIOS. Newer BIOS might have it locked off.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I have no use for AVX 512


Well, at least you can revise your eBay listing and mark its compatibility for AVX-512, with proof. Can sell it for a much higher price.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> Well, at least you can revise your eBay listing and mark its compatibility for AVX-512, with proof. Can sell it for a much higher price.


That I will try to do.


----------



## sugi0lover

z390e said:


> @DSHG87 if you run CB23 or CB20 from Benchmate what does it score? For 5.3g I found my floor is ~1.3v, havent tried to find the floor for 5.2 yet but am curious what you find.
> 
> edit @sugi0lover have you seen anyone with a higher pcore chip than yours? wow that thing is a beauty


This is the one I saw the highest P SP 12900K. He posted it here somewhere and I remember he binned a thousand 12900K s to get this.
But there has been no post of the real performance of this chip though.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

sugi0lover said:


> This is the one I saw the highest P SP 12900K. He posted it here somewhere and I remember he binned a thousand 12900K s to get this.
> But there has been no post of the real performance of this chip though.
> View attachment 2563528


That is amazing.


----------



## bscool

050 said:


> Was looking back through my photos and my 12900ks with sp-p of 106 is also the older IHS markings design (at least, it doesn't have the qr-code like square section at the bottom and the newer square logo.
> View attachment 2563520
> 
> View attachment 2563521
> 
> 
> I will have to look into if it has AVX512 capability but I'm running an Asus strix z690-e so I am not certain if that's something I'd have to go back to an older bios for. Interesting.
> View attachment 2563522
> 
> It isn't lit up in hwinfo64 (makes sense) but what is the set of parameters needed to activate it? Just disabling the E cores or something else/more?
> 
> Thanks!


I can switch the u code for you if you want. Let me know which bios or you can do it yourself. It is easy and you can flash it via EZ flash. I know it works on Apex not sure about Strix. (12900k) Patching older ucode to restore AVX512

If it doesnt work you will need to use Flashback with a non modded bios on it so have that ready also on another system or available.


----------



## Ichirou

I just tested out the Thermalright bracket myself, with the EK Velocity waterblock. 12900KF P-core SP 99, 52/50 core/cache (E-cores disabled).
I had the exact same results with and without the bracket compared to the stock one, when I left all settings exactly the same.

*However, I was able to pass y-cruncher for both the main and component test with 0.02V less Vcore using the Thermalright bracket.*

For $10, this was an insanely worthwhile upgrade. Highly recommend it. It's at worst a sidegrade. I was skeptical at first, but not anymore.
@bscool @sugi0lover


----------



## chentj1988

bscool said:


> I can switch the u code for you if you want. Let me know which bios or you can do it yourself. It is easy and you can flash it via EZ flash. I know it works on Apex not sure about Strix. (12900k) Patching older ucode to restore AVX512
> 
> If it doesnt work you will need to use Flashback with a non modded bios on it so have that ready also on another system or available.


You mean as long as your chip has that "logo", you can flash the U code and make it AVX-512 availble?


----------



## bscool

chentj1988 said:


> You mean as long as your chip has that "logo", you can flash the U code and make it AVX-512 availble?


Yeah if the CPU has avx512 available. It is still up in the air if KS actually has avx512 since no one has shown it other than safedisks KS. 

We need someone to test their KS with the O and see if it is true for KS with O also.


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> Yeah if the CPU has avx512 available. It is still up in the air if KS actually has avx512 since no one has shown it other than safedisks KS.
> 
> We need someone to test their KS with the O and see if it is true for KS with O also.


Well, all of the other overclockers high up on the list on HWBOT also have AVX-512 enabled chips, so I imagine it is available.
The question is whether or not they're actually usable on retail samples and not only engineering samples.


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> Well, all of the other overclockers high up on the list on HWBOT also have AVX-512 enabled chips, so I imagine it is available.
> The question is whether or not they're actually usable on retail samples and not only engineering samples.


But they are not KS cpus are they? the ones I looked at were not ks.

If you have link to other KS. I didnt see them.


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> But they are not KS cpus are they? the ones I looked at were not ks.
> 
> If you have link to other KS. I didnt see them.


Oh, you're right. They're all K/KF's. Hmm.
I'll look through some of the lower ones.


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> .


Yeah that as not KS, K or KF.


----------



## sugi0lover

I posted what someone posted at my region PC forum, and it seems like the original source is the below.








Overclocker explains how to quickly distinguish Intel Alder Lake CPU with AVX512 support - VideoCardz.com


Intel Alder Lake CPUs with AVX512 have a different logo The AVX512 support for Alder Lake CPUs is an interesting topic in its own. In short, the new series of desktop CPUs were listed with AVX512 instruction support in developer guide for Alder Lake series. According to this guide, initially...




videocardz.com


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> Yeah that as not KS, K or KF.


Looked through the y-cruncher rankings with specific KSes. Seems like it's only safedisk so far.
Do any other benchmarks use AVX-512?


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> Looked through the y-cruncher rankings with specific KSes. Seems like it's only safedisk so far.
> Do any other benchmarks use AVX-512?


I dont know. That is the only one that i know of, but I dont know much about avx512 or what uses it.

Video which I am guessing is the source for this info

Edit I see @sugi0lover linked also


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> I posted what someone posted at my region PC forum, and it seems like the original source is the below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Overclocker explains how to quickly distinguish Intel Alder Lake CPU with AVX512 support - VideoCardz.com
> 
> 
> Intel Alder Lake CPUs with AVX512 have a different logo The AVX512 support for Alder Lake CPUs is an interesting topic in its own. In short, the new series of desktop CPUs were listed with AVX512 instruction support in developer guide for Alder Lake series. According to this guide, initially...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> videocardz.com


Too bad the 12900 is in a yellow box, lol
And even if we do know which chips have AVX-512, we don't know how well binned they are.


----------



## chentj1988

I just delided, temp improved by 6C. For those warrior who delided, did you use liquid metal as median for your ihs and waterblock? Or thermal paste? If you use liquid metal, what are the improvement of temperature LM vs thermal paste?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> I just delided, temp improved by 6C. For those warrior who delided, did you use liquid metal as median for your ihs and waterblock? Or thermal paste? If you use liquid metal, what are the improvement of temperature LM vs thermal paste?


Another 5c, then direct die (for me) another 10c.


----------



## DSHG87

All I have to do to test AVX512 on my MSI z690 is to disable the E-Cores and flash an older BIOS, right? Or is there a special option?

My KS now is stable with CPU Lite Load Mode 2. Highest voltage for stock settings ist around 1.35V (5.5GHZ TVB included) and (se picture below) max 1.25V for 5.2GHz allcore. Seems to be ok?


----------



## chentj1988

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Another 5c, then direct die (for me) another 10c.
> View attachment 2563557


That’s huge…. Damn… did you put your motherboard horizontally or vertically? Isn’t it quite risky if the motherboard is vertically as the LM will concentrate at bottom part? I’m extremely tempted but the last time I tried, the LM is concentrated at bottom part. Looks like using ThermalRight cpu bracket a better choice to do LM.


----------



## Ichirou

chentj1988 said:


> That’s huge…. Damn… did you put your motherboard horizontally or vertically? Isn’t it quite risky if the motherboard is vertically as the LM will concentrate at bottom part? I’m extremely tempted but the last time I tried, the LM is concentrated at bottom part. Looks like using ThermalRight cpu bracket a better choice to do LM.


LM between the IHS and cooler is really unnecessary. It's a maximum ~3C difference under very ideal conditions.









Too many risks involved with using LM that it's just not worth it. Delid LM and direct die are much more significant in reducing temps.


----------



## chentj1988

Ichirou said:


> LM between the IHS and cooler is really unnecessary. It's a maximum ~3C difference under very ideal conditions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too many risks involved with using LM that it's just not worth it. Delid LM and direct die are much more significant in reducing temps.


That’s my main concern too. I did tried but it was so scary because the LM will just concentrate at the bottom part of ihs. I did use fingernail paint the electronic component but still scary as hell. By the way I read about you used ThermalRight cpu bracket and have improvement on the Vmin, I have the same bracket too. The last time I tried actually I installed the “cpu socket shield” at the back there wrongly (Reversed). Lol… as result I had 3C worse temperature. Do you think I should retry? I already delided anyway.


----------



## DSHG87

Flashed older BIOS, deaktivated E-Cores and then appeared option "AVX 512 support" in BIOS. Enabled, but CPU-Z and HWiNFO don't show it. Maybe a Windows Update blocks it? Or is it a problem i had the newest BIOS flashed (wit new CPU microcode)?


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> LM between the IHS and cooler is really unnecessary. It's a maximum ~3C difference under very ideal conditions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too many risks involved with using LM that it's just not worth it. Delid LM and direct die are much more significant in reducing temps.


That is on older chips running less wattage. Look at the temps I had on the chip I sent you. Much lower than what you have and I was using LM on IHS. 

You dont think that played a role in my temps being so much lower than what you have?


----------



## chentj1988

bscool said:


> That is on older chips running less wattage. Look at the temps I had on the chip I sent you. Much lower than what you have and I was using LM on IHS.
> 
> You dont think that played a role in my temps being so much lower than what you have?


Can quote the temps post of yours? Thanks!


----------



## bscool

chentj1988 said:


> Can quote the temps post of yours? Thanks!


It is a 12900kf I sent to @Ichirou



https://www.overclock.net/attachments/y-cruncher_pi-2-5b_73-183-jpg.2553498/





https://d1ebmxcfh8bf9c.cloudfront.net/u430252/image_id_2667432.jpg


----------



## chentj1988

bscool said:


> It is a 12900kf I sent to @Ichirou
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/attachments/y-cruncher_pi-2-5b_73-183-jpg.2553498/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://d1ebmxcfh8bf9c.cloudfront.net/u430252/image_id_2667432.jpg


Both comparison are (delid LM + thermal paste) vs (delid LM + LM)? Sorry a bit confuse here


----------



## bscool

chentj1988 said:


> Both comparison are (delid LM + thermal paste) vs (delid LM + LM)? Sorry a bit confuse here


Not delidded, just LM on both run. Different ram and voltages/wattage in each run.

From the runs I have seen his temps are much higher but he is on a different MB so maybe that is part of the reason also. He is up around 90c+ from what i know but he is also running a different version of y cruncher than I used.

It would be intersting to see what temps he gets if he sets the same clocks as I ran in those runs.


----------



## chentj1988

bscool said:


> Not delidded, just LM on both run. Different ram and voltages/wattage in each run.
> 
> From the runs I have seen his temps are much higher but he is on a different MB so maybe that is part of the reason also. He is up around 90c+ from what i know but he is also running a different version of y cruncher than I used.
> 
> It would be intersting to see what temps he gets if he sets the same clocks as I ran in those runs.


Now I have no reason for not trying it. Thanks for the info I will get back here after trying


----------



## chentj1988

Ichirou said:


> LM between the IHS and cooler is really unnecessary. It's a maximum ~3C difference under very ideal conditions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Too many risks involved with using LM that it's just not worth it. Delid LM and direct die are much more significant in reducing temps.


You are right about thermal paste (Thermal Grizzly Extreme) vs Liquid Metal (Grizzly) on delided chip. Around 3C improvement (5.4ghz 270w 1.243v 79C peak vs 82C peak 10 runs r23 multi). Manage to lower the voltage by around 10mv. But the GrizzlyExtremely itself is a very good thermal paste. Not really worth the hassle in my opinion. Guess the next big thing is the Direct Die Kit but it’s ugly.



bscool said:


> Not delidded, just LM on both run. Different ram and voltages/wattage in each run.
> 
> From the runs I have seen his temps are much higher but he is on a different MB so maybe that is part of the reason also. He is up around 90c+ from what i know but he is also running a different version of y cruncher than I used.
> 
> It would be intersting to see what temps he gets if he sets the same clocks as I ran in those runs.


Liquid Metal is not that worth it in my case. A good Thermal Paste will do the job.


----------



## bscool

DSHG87 said:


> Flashed older BIOS, deaktivated E-Cores and then appeared option "AVX 512 support" in BIOS. Enabled, but CPU-Z and HWiNFO don't show it. Maybe a Windows Update blocks it? Or is it a problem i had the newest BIOS flashed (wit new CPU microcode)?


Sounds like it doesnt have it then.

You are on MSI so not sure how it works. Maybe someone on Asus will try it.

I was just looking back threw an older Discord 12900ks talk and somemone has a 12900ks with the 0 on the IHS and no avx512.


----------



## chentj1988

Got myself top 11 in HWbot R23 Single Core with 5.8ghz 1.395v. ^^


----------



## Nizzen

I'm impressed anyone have time to wait for r23 singlecore benchmark 🤭


----------



## chentj1988

Nizzen said:


> I'm impressed anyone have time to wait for r23 singlecore benchmark 🤭


Usually I do 10 rounds of multi core to ensure my OC is stable for daily usage / gaming. Then do 30 mins of OCCT. Rarely do single core though but isn’t that single core is what makes 12900 more special than AMDs


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> That’s huge…. Damn… did you put your motherboard horizontally or vertically? Isn’t it quite risky if the motherboard is vertically as the LM will concentrate at bottom part? I’m extremely tempted but the last time I tried, the LM is concentrated at bottom part. Looks like using ThermalRight cpu bracket a better choice to do LM.


My PC is a bench always flat, GPU has LM and it's vertical and it's all good.

LM has high surface tension it won't spill over. Don't add too much like, it can't pool


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> Got myself top 11 in HWbot R23 Single Core with 5.8ghz 1.395v. ^^
> View attachment 2563578
> 
> View attachment 2563579


Got it too.


----------



## chentj1988

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Got it too.
> View attachment 2563581


Nice… our chips are quite similar I guess. I ran it at 1.395v but after that I just stop doing it, don’t feel like abuse the chip. Now doing 57/57/57/55/55/55/54/54 daily


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> Nice… our chips are quite similar I guess. I ran it at 1.395v but after that I just stop doing it, don’t feel like abuse the chip. Now doing 57/57/57/55/55/55/54/54 daily


All core will only be 54 though, not quite the same haha.

Try all cores 56x. LLC6 1.46V. it will be 1.365ish V under load, should be able to cool it. Also try E cores enabled at 4.4 GHz.


----------



## chentj1988

TheNaitsyrk said:


> All core will only be 54 though, not quite the same haha.
> 
> Try all cores 56x. LLC6 1.46V. it will be 1.365ish V under load, should be able to cool it. Also try E cores enabled at 4.4 GHz.


Im not using direct die cooling, that’s why I don’t want to push anymore. Anyway how much Vload improvement you got from delid + direct? Let’s say For 5.4ghz.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> Im not using direct die cooling, that’s why I don’t want to push anymore. Anyway how much Vload improvement you got from delid + direct? Let’s say For 5.4ghz.


I did this without direct die. Direct die just improved temps. Try it, nothing will happen if it fails.


----------



## chentj1988

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I did this without direct die. Direct die just improved temps. Try it, nothing will happen if it fails.


Cant. I’m already 90c+ at 300w. My cooling ain’t that good. Furthermore I’m living in Malaysia. The best Water temp I got is 26C.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> Cant. I’m already 90c+ at 300w. My cooling ain’t that good. Furthermore I’m living in Malaysia. The best Water temp I got is 26C.


Ah okay. 90c is 5c away from Tjmax. Fair enough.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> Cant. I’m already 90c+ at 300w. My cooling ain’t that good. Furthermore I’m living in Malaysia. The best Water temp I got is 26C.


What's your CPU SP rating?


----------



## chentj1988

TheNaitsyrk said:


> What's your CPU SP rating?


12900ks sp96 P105 E80. I think we are about the same.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> 12900ks sp96 P105 E80. I think we are about the same.


Oh yes exactly same chip SP wise.


----------



## chentj1988

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Oh yes exactly same chip SP wise.


how bout your vid?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> how bout your vid?


Wow identical chips basically


----------



## Ichirou

Is 22,015 points on R23 more or less what is expected with the P-cores at around 53/52x with E-cores off? @sugi0lover
That's with my y-cruncher main+stress test stable config. 5x 5.3 GHz and 3x 5.2 GHz. Cache at 50x. 1.36V Vcore.

*Edit*: With 6x 5.4 GHz and 2x 5.3 GHz at 1.45V, I managed to get 22,353. But can't get a single 5.5 GHz core even at 1.51V Vcore. 12900KF P-SP 99 chip.
Not going to bother testing any further since I don't think it will let me.


----------



## chentj1988

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Wow identical chips basically
> View attachment 2563596


😂😂😂 almost a clone


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> 😂😂😂 almost a clone


Just go overkill on cooling like me problem solved 

My P104 SP94 chip will also be direct die
My P105 SP96 chip already under direct die


----------



## 050

I disabled the e cores and enabled avx-512 in the bios (1403) but it is still grey in the hwinfo64 summary - either my chip doesn’t have it or it requires an older bios/micro code. I’ll have to test that at some later point. Anyone know which bios for the asus strix z690-e would be old enough? Thanks!


----------



## Ichirou

050 said:


> I disabled the e cores and enabled avx-512 in the bios (1403) but it is still grey in the hwinfo64 summary - either my chip doesn’t have it or it requires an older bios/micro code. I’ll have to test that at some later point. Anyone know which bios for the asus strix z690-e would be old enough? Thanks!


Really hard for anyone to say. I'd suggest just testing every single KS-compatible BIOS, starting from the very first one.
Hell, you could even use a non-KS BIOS temporarily, as it should still function, albeit not 100% properly.


----------



## chentj1988

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Just go overkill on cooling like me problem solved
> 
> My P104 SP94 chip will also be direct die
> My P105 SP96 chip already under direct die
> View attachment 2563603


Damn we have same motherboard too. Your setup is insane lol. Probably gonna get myself a direct cooling kit from supercools


----------



## Ichirou

chentj1988 said:


> Damn we have same motherboard too. Your setup is insane lol. Probably gonna get myself a direct cooling kit from supercools


You'll need to buy a delid kit as well, since apparently Supercool doesn't provide it for free anymore.


----------



## chentj1988

Ichirou said:


> You'll need to buy a delid kit as well, since apparently Supercool doesn't provide it for free anymore.


I already delided, but not yet direct cooling lol… cause the supercools direct kit looks damn ugly 😂 just order from the official website anyway. Gonna give it a try.


----------



## Ichirou

chentj1988 said:


> I already delided, but not yet direct cooling lol… cause the supercools direct kit looks damn ugly 😂 just order from the official website anyway. Gonna give it a try.


Yes, it is incredibly ugly. And that is why I refuse to buy it. I'll wait until RockIt Cool offers a direct die frame and use my own water block. I'm patient.


----------



## warbucks

I picked up another 12900KS today.... Much better than my other one.


----------



## Ichirou

warbucks said:


> I picked up another 12900KS today.... Much better than my other one.
> 
> View attachment 2563612


That is very highly binned. P-SP 107-110 is a top golden bin for the KS.
Where did you get this one? And what was the other chip that you had?


----------



## warbucks

Ichirou said:


> That is very highly binned. P-SP 107-110 is a top golden bin for the KS.
> Where did you get this one? And what was the other chip that you had?


Picked it up at Memory Express today. My other KS was a SP81; however, I can run 6800CL30 really tight with it.


----------



## z390e

What type of vcore are people at for all core 5.4 on 12900KS?

I can run every benchmark under the sun with no errors at all core 5.3 @ 1.304v but I cannot get all core 5.4 at even 1.4v override.


----------



## Ichirou

z390e said:


> What type of vcore are people at for all core 5.4 on 12900KS?
> 
> I can run every benchmark under the sun with no errors at all core 5.3 @ 1.304v but I cannot get all core 5.4 at even 1.4v override.


Core quality differs per chip. Some cores might just be so bad that they refuse to do 5.4 GHz no matter what.
You'll have to bin each core separately to rank them from best to worst and overclock them individually.
ASUS helps with letting you figure out what the core order is, but that's only based on VIDs, so doing your own test is always best.

Simply run 5.3 GHz all-core at 1.30V Vavg, and then set it to Per Core instead of all-core and raise each one individually. Test y-cruncher.
Rank them based on which ones pass/fail/get some of the way.

For my KF, my cores are ranked as so (manually tested, from *best *to worst): *3, 1, 6/7, 2,* 0, 4/5.
My cores 4 and 5 absolutely refuse to do 5.4 GHz, no matter the Vcore.


----------



## z390e

@Ichirou thanks, looks like I have my weekend plans now


----------



## warbucks

Ichirou said:


> Yes, it is incredibly ugly. And that is why I refuse to buy it. I'll wait until RockIt Cool offers a direct die frame and use my own water block. I'm patient.


I have the supercool direct die block. I got the nickel version. Here are some pics. I wouldn't hold out for rockitcool to make a direct die frame. I've talked to the owner and because the cpu die is so thin, this makes it impossible to do direct to die using their usual technique from the previous CPUs since they have to make the aluminum thinner than 0.43mm.

Once the aluminum is that thin, it bends and distorts very easy and can’t get good contact with the pins before it starts to deform.




Spoiler: pics


----------



## Ichirou

warbucks said:


> I have the supercool direct die block. I got the nickel version. Here are some pics. I wouldn't hold out for rockitcool to make a direct die frame. I've talked to the owner and because the cpu die is so thin, this makes it impossible to do direct to die using their usual technique from the previous CPUs since they have to make the aluminum thinner than 0.43mm.
> 
> Once the aluminum is that thin, it bends and distorts very easy and can’t get good contact with the pins before it starts to deform.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: pics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2563619
> 
> View attachment 2563620


I've contacted James as well, and he said that he was testing out various alternatives to aluminum: "4140 chromoly steel, hardened tool steel and titanium". So it's not impossible.
I really dislike the look of the block, so it's a no from me. Besides, unless you are on the absolute brink trying to daily 55-56x all-core at 1.45V+, you don't need it over a delid anyway. (That's disregarding the fact that you'd need to bin a chip strong enough to even bother with it in the first place.)

In other news, I think I'm done overclocking on this 12900KF. Don't think I can get any further without a delid.
5x 5.3 GHz and 3x 5.2 GHz at 1.36V load Vcore with 50x cache, and RAM at 4,133 MHz CL14 1T Gear 1 with 1.35V VCCSA.
And based on Cinebench findings, the best it could do was 6x 5.4 GHz and 2x 5.3 GHz under sane voltages (~1.45V max load Vcore) anyway. Nothing more.
But I did manage to push my RAM overclock harder. 156% over my previous 142% on Z390 (which was easily beaten by some Ryzen 5000 users at the time)


----------



## warbucks

Ichirou said:


> I've contacted James as well, and he said that he was testing out various alternatives to aluminum: "4140 chromoly steel, hardened tool steel and titanium". So it's not impossible.
> I really dislike the look of the block, so it's a no from me. Besides, unless you are on the absolute brink trying to daily 55-56x all-core at 1.45V+, you don't need it over a delid anyway. (That's disregarding the fact that you'd need to bin a chip strong enough to even bother with it in the first place.)
> 
> In other news, I think I'm done overclocking on this 12900KF. Don't think I can get any further without a delid.
> 5x 5.3 GHz and 3x 5.2 GHz at 1.36V load Vcore with 50x cache, and RAM at 4,133 MHz CL14 1T Gear 1 with 1.35V VCCSA.
> And based on Cinebench findings, the best it could do was 6x 5.4 GHz and 2x 5.3 GHz under sane voltages (~1.45V max load Vcore) anyway. Nothing more.
> But I did manage to push my RAM overclock harder. 156% over my previous 142% on Z390 (which was easily beaten by some Ryzen 5000 users at the time)


Impossible using the previous technique yes. He's been trying all kinds of different metals without any luck so I highly doubt we'll see one as it's just too thin. 

I would love for him to make their own direct die block. I think they could deliver something really nice although I'm more of a function over form kind of guy so looks don't really matter all that much to me. I'd rather performance.


----------



## Ichirou

warbucks said:


> Impossible using the previous technique yes. He's been trying all kinds of different metals without any luck so I highly doubt we'll see one as it's just too thin.
> 
> I would love for him to make their own direct die block. I think they could deliver something really nice although I'm more of a function over form kind of guy so looks don't really matter all that much to me. I'd rather performance.


What I would like to see are current CPU waterblock makers offering "conversion blocks" that replace the bottoms of existing blocks to allow for direct die similar to Supercool's method. Or at least making new waterblocks with a similar direct die concept.

I've always been one to dislike monopolies due to proprietary products, and considering that Supercool _doesn't even offer delid kits anymore_, that's more cost to the end-user as they need to source not one but two separate parts just to direct die. (And since only RockIt Cool offers delid kits now, it's become some weird unintended consortium of monopolies).

There were rumours about EKWB making a direct die block, but it seems to have gone silent after several months of no news now.
I'm sure that as time goes by, there will be more direct die solutions. I highly doubt that Supercool's going to be the only possible option for the future.


----------



## xGeNeSisx

Ichirou said:


> What I would like to see are current CPU waterblock makers offering "conversion blocks" that replace the bottoms of existing blocks to allow for direct die similar to Supercool's method. Or at least making new waterblocks with a similar direct die concept.
> 
> I've always been one to dislike monopolies due to proprietary products, and considering that Supercool _doesn't even offer delid kits anymore_, that's more cost to the end-user as they need to source not one but two separate parts just to direct die. (And since only RockIt Cool offers delid kits now, it's become some weird unintended consortium of monopolies).
> 
> There were rumours about EKWB making a direct die block, but it seems to have gone silent after several months of no news now.
> I'm sure that as time goes by, there will be more direct die solutions. I highly doubt that Supercool's going to be the only possible option for the future.


Want to delid my 12600k, but having only one place offer delid kits is kind of ridiculous. After ordering the kit + something to cover the caps + LM it will come out to nearly $100 for a delid. Hard to justify at that price right now, but RockitCool is the only game in town unfortunately.

I don't have much interest in going direct die, but I don't 100% trust SC blocks. I know others vouch for it, and I'm sure it's fine. I would just prefer a more established manufacturer. Margins probably just aren't there for EKWB or anyone else to seriously pursue a product.


----------



## Ichirou

xGeNeSisx said:


> Want to delid my 12600k, but having only one place offer delid kits is kind of ridiculous. After ordering the kit + something to cover the caps + LM it will come out to nearly $100 for a delid. Hard to justify at that price right now, but RockitCool is the only game in town unfortunately.
> 
> I don't have much interest in going direct die, but I don't 100% trust SC blocks. I know others vouch for it, and I'm sure it's fine. I would just prefer a more established manufacturer. Margins probably just aren't there for EKWB or anyone else to seriously pursue a product.


Precisely what I think. I'm against monopolies in general, and it isn't really necessary to direct die unless you absolutely need that last 7C or so that delidding cannot provide.

It would've made more sense if Supercool continued to provide their own delid kits alongside the direct die blocks, but now that they no longer offer them, the value isn't there.
You have to pay like $140 +shipping for both the block and the delid kit combined. So that ends up being more like $180+ USD.

Anyone who has ever watercooled in the past is left dead in the water because they can't reuse their own CPU waterblocks, especially those with expensive ones like Optimus.
Sure, delidding sounds like a decent compromise, but the cost for it has increased this time around and RockIt Cool themselves is having issues meeting demand.

The Thermalright bracket was great value though. Managed to drop the Vcore necessary by 0.02V for only $10. That's really significant, and is like, ~4C lower already.


----------



## sugi0lover

warbucks said:


> I have the supercool direct die block. I got the nickel version. Here are some pics. I wouldn't hold out for rockitcool to make a direct die frame. I've talked to the owner and because the cpu die is so thin, this makes it impossible to do direct to die using their usual technique from the previous CPUs since they have to make the aluminum thinner than 0.43mm.
> 
> Once the aluminum is that thin, it bends and distorts very easy and can’t get good contact with the pins before it starts to deform.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: pics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2563619
> 
> View attachment 2563620


Looking good! How did you get Nickel version? I don't see they sell it at homepage.


----------



## warbucks

sugi0lover said:


> Looking good! How did you get Nickel version? I don't see they sell it at homepage.


I asked him if he had a nickel version through his Facebook page. He said he was in the process of making a batch at the time.


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Is 22,015 points on R23 more or less what is expected with the P-cores at around 53/52x with E-cores off? @sugi0lover
> That's with my y-cruncher main+stress test stable config. 5x 5.3 GHz and 3x 5.2 GHz. Cache at 50x. 1.36V Vcore.
> 
> *Edit*: With 6x 5.4 GHz and 2x 5.3 GHz at 1.45V, I managed to get 22,353. But can't get a single 5.5 GHz core even at 1.51V Vcore. 12900KF P-SP 99 chip.
> Not going to bother testing any further since I don't think it will let me.


Here you go!
It's Win11 and the load voltage is 1.13v for 199W fyi.


----------



## chentj1988

Ichirou said:


> Core quality differs per chip. Some cores might just be so bad that they refuse to do 5.4 GHz no matter what.
> You'll have to bin each core separately to rank them from best to worst and overclock them individually.
> ASUS helps with letting you figure out what the core order is, but that's only based on VIDs, so doing your own test is always best.
> 
> Simply run 5.3 GHz all-core at 1.30V Vavg, and then set it to Per Core instead of all-core and raise each one individually. Test y-cruncher.
> Rank them based on which ones pass/fail/get some of the way.
> 
> For my KF, my cores are ranked as so (manually tested, from *best *to worst): *3, 1, 6/7, 2,* 0, 4/5.
> My cores 4 and 5 absolutely refuse to do 5.4 GHz, no matter the Vcore.


You can try to use Asus AIOC and find your max baseline for each cores. It was pretty handy and accurate.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> Here you go!
> It's Win11 and the load voltage is 1.13v for 199W fyi.
> View attachment 2563628


Thanks so much sugi! I really appreciate you taking the time to test this out for me.
Yeah, it does seem like 53x all-core is more or less around that score. Yours is a little better, because I had to set three P-cores to 52x instead.
And my chip obviously isn't as highly binned as yours, so the Vcore on load isn't anywhere near as good, lol...

How much does the RAM affect R23? Is there a major difference between 7,200 MHz and something standard like 6,400 MHz (same timings)?
Side question: What are prices like in Korea for binned chips now? Are they still dropping rapidly?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Thanks so much sugi! I really appreciate you taking the time to test this out for me.
> Yeah, it does seem like 53x all-core is more or less around that score. Yours is a little better, because I had to set three P-cores to 52x instead.
> And my chip obviously isn't as highly binned as yours, so the Vcore on load isn't anywhere near as good, lol...
> 
> How much does the RAM affect R23? Is there a major difference between 7,200 MHz and something standard like 6,400 MHz (same timings)?
> Side question: What are prices like in Korea for binned chips now? Are they still dropping rapidly?


No problem! Ram OC almost doesn't affect Cine Score at all.
P SP 105 12900K at USD 610 and P SP 104 12900KS at USD 680 got sold recently.
IMC is more important than core, but no one mentioned when selling their chips.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> No problem! Ram OC almost doesn't affect Cine Score at all.
> P SP 105 12900K at USD 610 and P SP 104 12900KS at USD 680 got sold recently.
> IMC is more important than core, but no one mentioned when selling their chips.


Damn, they're really dropping fast... I wonder at what price it'll stop dropping?
I'm sure at some point it can't go any lower because it shouldn't be cheaper than previous gen chips...
Are those being sold on Korean forums, or in marketplaces like local eBay or second-hand?

Edit: Even in the US, in retail store, 12900KS goes for $780 USD...


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Damn, they're really dropping fast... I wonder at what price it'll stop dropping?
> I'm sure at some point it can't go any lower because it shouldn't be cheaper than previous gen chips...
> Are those being sold on Korean forums, or in marketplaces like local eBay or second-hand?


The Korean forum I saw those deals from is one of the biggest PC forums in my region and it has its own market session.
I see people posting that place and bigger marketplace at the same time. 
And some people sell unopened and new 12900KS at under USD 600, I don't know why though.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> The Korean forum I saw those deals from is one of the biggest PC forums in my region and it has its own market session.
> I see people posting that place and bigger marketplace at the same time.
> And some people sell unopened and new 12900KS at under USD 600, I don't know why though.


I think it's because of overclockers who buy a lot of chips at once, and when they find a good one, they figure there is no point to waste time testing out the other ones and they can't refund it to the store, so they just sell it. And because of so many people selling at once, everyone's competing for a lower price. Nobody wants to leave cash lying around depreciating, after all. Especially with Raptor Lake coming.

I think once Raptor Lake hits, prices will get even lower, and many overclockers who immediately jump to 13th Gen will quickly sell their top binned 12th Gens. It's unfortunate that we don't really have a big marketplace over here, though.


----------



## z390e

If the P SP 104 is getting sold what are these binners keeping?


----------



## Ichirou

z390e said:


> If the P SP 104 is getting sold what are these binners keeping?


Only P-SP 107+ for KS or P-SP 113+ for K/KF I'm guessing.
But they're taking heavy losses on all of the bad chips as well. So anything not at least P-SP 100+ for KS or P-SP 105+ for K/KF has to be sold at a heavy loss.


----------



## sugi0lover

z390e said:


> If the P SP 104 is getting sold what are these binners keeping?


He keeps his P-SP 103 KS because he said that its imc is better.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> He keeps his P-SP 103 KS because he said that its imc is better.


Good point. IMC is so much more important than core quality. A difference of a few P-SP is only what, a little Vcore?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Good point. IMC is so much more important than core quality. A difference of a few P-SP is only what, a little Vcore?


Yes. Vcore just needs a little higher if core qulaity is not great. But imc quality limits what ram oc you can do regardless of voltages.


----------



## 050

How do you assess imc quality- just test ram ocs for stability? Could be prohibitively time consuming for them to test just to list on the chips they’re selling. Or is there a “score” like the sp ratings?


----------



## sugi0lover

050 said:


> How do you assess imc quality- just test ram ocs for stability? Could be prohibitively time consuming for them to test just to list on the chips they’re selling. Or is there a “score” like the sp ratings?


That's the hard part. Ram OC depends on the combination of IMC, MB, and Ram, so it's hard to tell what's the bottleneck.
There is no indication like SP either. So once imc is proven by ram oc result, people pay more for that chip since you now only need to focus on MB and Ram.


----------



## bscool

sugi0lover said:


> That's the hard part. Ram OC depends on the combination of IMC, MB, and Ram, so it's hard to tell what's the bottleneck.
> There is no indication like SP either. So once imc is proven by ram oc result, people pay more for that chip since you now only need to focus on MB and Ram.


What is the weakest IMC you have had? I see you have been runing 7000 to 7200 for a while did you have any cpu/IMC that would only do say 6600 or 6800 stable?


----------



## sugi0lover

bscool said:


> What is the weakest IMC you have had? I see you have been runing 7000 to 7200 for a while did you have any cpu/IMC that would only do say 6600 or 6800 stable?


I know SP doesn't matter, but my SP80 could do only 6400 max.


----------



## z390e

delete


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

So does the 12gen OC well compared to other gen's ? I know they use a lot of power. How easy is it to burn 1 out ?


----------



## Nizzen

Kaltenbrunner said:


> So does the 12gen OC well compared to other gen's ? I know they use a lot of power. How easy is it to burn 1 out ?


Easy to oc if cooling is good enough. Though, memory oc is where gaming performance is 
All core 5.3 and 6600mhz+ tweaked is where meta is 
Tweak memory before cpu oc


----------



## ajolly

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Just go overkill on cooling like me problem solved


I saw your post on reddit!
I'll take your overkill and raise you -


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

ajolly said:


> I saw your post on reddit!
> I'll take your overkill and raise you -
> View attachment 2563714
> View attachment 2563715


Okay but that's super inconvenient I use all PC parts. I cool a PC not a car


----------



## Groove2013

overkill pumps for just 1 MO-RA3 420 Pro )))

or overkill radiators )))


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Groove2013 said:


> overkill pumps for just 1 MO-RA3 420 Pro )))
> 
> or overkill radiators )))


This is overkill I can agree on.


----------



## Groove2013

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Okay but that's super inconvenient I use all PC parts. I cool a PC not a car


that's super convenient )))


----------



## CptSpig

Groove2013 said:


> overkill pumps for just 1 MO-RA3 420 Pro )))
> 
> or overkill radiators )))





TheNaitsyrk said:


> This is overkill I can agree on.


Easier to use one of these and way colder!


----------



## centvalny

7600 benchable tight air, cpu ambient and 8k single will do for imc test


----------



## Ichirou

Performance preview of Intel Core i9-13900 with 24-cores has been published by SiSoftware - VideoCardz.com


Intel Core i9-13900 test results emerge A preview of the upcoming Intel 13th Gen Core CPU called Core i9-13900 has been published over at SiSoftware. One should note that this is not a typical review based on actual hardware testing, but rather, an aggregation of existing results in the...




videocardz.com




This doesn't look good for Raptor Lake...
Supposedly better cache and more E-cores, with a better baseline for DDR5 IMC. That's about it.
One would assume that the P-cores are better binned, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Good for multi-core workloads, but I imagine AMD will catch up in no time with Ryzen 7000 if the gains from ADL are that marginal.


----------



## CENS

That must be some kind of early ES running at 3.7 GHz for P-Cores. Add like 40% you end up at ~5.2GHz so you can add 40% to whatever benchmark numbers they show.


----------



## Spiriva

Ichirou said:


> Good for multi-core workloads, but I imagine AMD will catch up in no time with Ryzen 7000 if the gains from ADL are that marginal.


I imagine Ryzen 7000 will be pure **** and blue screen whole day long, specially when running the memory on docp.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

CptSpig said:


> Easier to use one of these and way colder!
> View attachment 2563749


Chillers? No thanks


----------



## Ichirou

Chillers aren't really even all that necessary when the main issue of cooling is heat transfer from the die, not water temps


----------



## CptSpig

Ichirou said:


> Chillers aren't really even all that necessary when the main issue of cooling is heat transfer from the die, not water temps


Really? What transfers heat better warm water or cold water? If cold water is useless might as well be on air.


----------



## Ichirou

CptSpig said:


> Really? What transfers heat better warm water or cold water? If cold water is useless might as well be on air.


If water temps get so high that they'd exhibit a problem like that, there are bigger problems to deal with rather than getting a chiller, lol


----------



## jomama22

Spiriva said:


> I imagine Ryzen 7000 will be pure **** and blue screen whole day long, specially when running the memory on docp.


It funny how you had a bad experience with AMD and so it must be true. Same can be said for all of those with DDR5 issues and alder lake. Guess both next gen chips will be **** then.


----------



## warbucks

Ichirou said:


> If water temps get so high that they'd exhibit a problem like that, there are bigger problems to deal with rather than getting a chiller, lol





Ichirou said:


> Chillers aren't really even all that necessary when the main issue of cooling is heat transfer from the die, not water temps


Anything besides air cooling isn't necessary but were at overclock.net for a reason. In search of maximum performance and some folks will do whatever is needed to squeak out every ounce of performance they can.


----------



## gecko991

I run Thermochill rads in my CM Stacker cases not a problem for even the 12900.


----------



## bigfootnz

Did anyone notice this on MSI board with Vcore voltage readout? On Unify-X if I select socket sense, for which I was under impresion that it should be almost the same like Asus Vrout, min voltage which is needed for example 5.2Ghz is like 0.08v higher on MSI, even that power is the same. 

I've done comparison between Unify-X and Hero:
For example for 5.2/4.0/4.1 doing y-cruncher (these are minimum voltages to be y-cruncher stable):
Hero Vcore is 1.154v and total PSU power (Corsair PSU read out) 370W
Unify Vcore is 1.215v and total PSU power 370W, and slightly lower temperature average
For 5.3/4.0/4.1
Hero is 1.205v and 430W
Unify is 1.285v and 420W, again slightly lower temp. 

I know that older models, or MSI Ace X570 has VRout which is same like Asus Vcore, but this mother board do not have it.

Did anybody else noticed this? Does anyone have more info about MSI Vcore read?


----------



## anibalrz

Every ks should achieve 5.4 all cores like this or i have a good bin ? Im new on this


----------



## Nizzen

anibalrz said:


> View attachment 2563796
> 
> View attachment 2563797
> 
> Every ks should achieve 5.4 all cores like this or i have a good bin ? Im new on this


Looks like slow result? E-cores off?


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

jomama22 said:


> It should be noted that this better temperature comes from the coldplate style. If you have a convex coldplate, you will see little to no difference in temps, as has been shown over and over.
> 
> If you have a flat coldplate, you will get temps that basically represent what a convex coldplate already does.
> 
> You aren't going to get within 10C with a bracket vs delid/direct die. It's just not happening.
> 
> Go take a look at Igor's lab testing of the brackets.
> 
> The main advantage of direct die is the ability to cool high voltage/high power. The higher you go, the better it will be compared to any other means.
> 
> Also, it is possible I may have been slightly incorrect as his temps may seem a bit higher than I would expect, but that difference is most likely down to the chip itself. Testing many K and KS, hottest core can vary by 10C given the exact same voltage. My current chip is the coolest I have used out of the 20 chips tested.
> 
> As a refresher, this is with 21C ambient, 23C water with basically the same exact voltage (1.327 vs 1.325, VR VOUT is the same as Asus "die sense" (the voltage output by the voltage controller):
> View attachment 2562065
> 
> 
> Reported CPU package power is also 50w more in my bench, but who knows how accurate that is.


Curious before you delidded your chip what kinds iv clocks, voltages, and temps did you see?


----------



## BoredErica

Is anyone here willing to help benchmark alder lake CPUs for Elder Scrolls: Oblivion? It's 1 DL for ini file and save file. (Ini is set to read only, so even if you launch via launcher, the graphical settings won't be altered by it.) Then just load in, give it 2-3s for FPS to settle, and record FPS.









258 KB file on MEGA







mega.nz














It could really use some Alder Lake love. :^)


----------



## anibalrz

Nizzen said:


> Looks like slow result? E-cores off?


Yes , ecores off


----------



## jomama22

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Curious before you delidded your chip what kinds iv clocks, voltages, and temps did you see?


I didn't really test it much other than seeing what max p-core clock it would hit on an Apex and at what voltage(did [email protected], temps like 80C or something). Hard to compare the reported voltages between Apex and Dark. From what a few have noticed here and hwbot, Apex reports ~30mv lower vcore than the Dark's VR VOUT given the same chip for same stability and temps. With the delid/dark, I can run 5.5 at 1.24 VR VOUT if I remember correctly, will have to test again. 

The reported package power is also different between the boards. Either the Dark reports high or the Apex reports low as their difference is quite large (upwards of 50w) yet still giving the same temps, which makes it pretty much incomparable.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

jomama22 said:


> I didn't really test it much other than seeing what max p-core clock it would hit on an Apex and at what voltage(did 5[email protected], temps like 80C or something). Hard to compare the reported voltages between Apex and Dark. From what a few have noticed here and hwbot, Apex reports ~30mv lower vcore than the Dark's VR VOUT given the same chip for same stability and temps. With the delid/dark, I can run 5.5 at 1.24 VR VOUT if I remember correctly, will have to test again.
> 
> The reported package power is also different between the boards. Either the Dark reports high or the Apex reports low as their difference is quite large (upwards of 50w) yet still giving the same temps, which makes it pretty much incomparable.


Interesting my findings have been similiar. Though having tested multiple 12900K and 12900KS chips there definitely is a variance in leakage. Most chips will output roughly 350-375w with about ~1.3V (as measured by VR VOUT). But most of my best clocking chips seem to be leaky and output more like 400w at that same level of voltage. Core temps can be extremely varied and don't necessarily reflect the power draw of the chip.


----------



## jomama22

Mylittlepwny2 said:


> Interesting my findings have been similiar. Though having tested multiple 12900K and 12900KS chips there definitely is a variance in leakage. Most chips will output roughly 350-375w with about ~1.3V (as measured by VR VOUT). But most of my best clocking chips seem to be leaky and output more like 400w at that same level of voltage. Core temps can be extremely varied and don't necessarily reflect the power draw of the chip.


Mine is reporting 375w @ 1.327v in r23 and 400w at 1.37v.

Yeah, notice the same core temp variation between multiple chips as well. Both my best K and KS have been the ones with the coolest max core temp. Didn't pay much attention to power tbh as it's not something I was concerned about lol.

One thing I did notice was that matching the Dark's VR VOUT to what the apex' vcore would report resulted in much higher reported package power on the dark, compared to the Apex.

Power density is becoming so huge that at ambient temps, I don't think having leaky chips is the way to go anymore. Going sub 0 will probably still benefit though.


----------



## Mylittlepwny2

jomama22 said:


> Mine is reporting 375w @ 1.327v in r23 and 400w at 1.37v.
> 
> Yeah, notice the same core temp variation between multiple chips as well. Both my best K and KS have been the ones with the coolest max core temp. Didn't pay much attention to power tbh as it's not something I was concerned about lol.
> 
> One thing I did notice was that matching the Dark's VR VOUT to what the apex' vcore would report resulted in much higher reported package power on the dark, compared to the Apex.
> 
> Power density is becoming so huge that at ambient temps, I don't think having leaky chips is the way to go anymore. Going sub 0 will probably still benefit though.


The odd thing is my leakiest chips run about the same temps or even cooler than my non leaky chips. It's super weird. But my K is SUPER leaky and runs cooler at higher volts than any of my other chips despite pulling between 25-50w more.


----------



## Kaltenbrunner

So I just got 23,850 as my new high score in CBR23, w/ an i7-12700k

WHat kind of scores do u folks get at stock and OCed ?? I'm forgetting tho, I had a lot of overheating last week, so I was closer to 16k. So the real jump was not as big as it seems from an OC and better thermals.

Now I wish I had the KF version, the iGPU is huge. There's more tweaking and better thermals to follow yet.


----------



## tubs2x4

Kaltenbrunner said:


> So I just got 23,850 as my new high score in CBR23, w/ an i7-12700k
> 
> WHat kind of scores do u folks get at stock and OCed ?? I'm forgetting tho, I had a lot of overheating last week, so I was closer to 16k. So the real jump was not as big as it seems from an OC and better thermals.
> 
> Now I wish I had the KF version, the iGPU is huge. There's more tweaking and better thermals to follow yet.
> View attachment 2563854


you have stuff running in background? i get same score on 12700kf after 10 min run at 4.9/3.9/3.9 at 77-80C
with your 5.1/4.0/4/0 should be over 24k for sure but who knows things weird sometimes


----------



## chentj1988

tubs2x4 said:


> you have stuff running in background? i get same score on 12700kf after 10 min run at 4.9/3.9/3.9 at 77-80C
> with your 5.1/4.0/4/0 should be over 24k for sure but who knows things weird sometimes


Basically just kill off the Lighting service and other rgb software in task manager. Close unnecessary programs. Then set priority to High. The score difference could be 5-10%.


----------



## chentj1988

Finally got my KS stable at 6600 CL28-38-38-36. Cant believe my Formula did it. Going to try if this is stable for daily.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> Finally got my KS stable at 6600 CL28-38-38-36. Cant believe my Formula did it. Going to try if this is stable for daily.
> 
> View attachment 2563880


Could you show me your BIOS ram settings? I am running Z690 Formula also and the exact same RAM.


----------



## chentj1988

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Could you show me your BIOS ram settings? I am running Z690 Formula also and the exact same RAM.


Try it. We have very similar gear. And I’m using 1505. My timing still can tighten a bit and also vddq can be lower I think. The Formula really surprise me. I can’t do it on my Apex


----------



## Falkentyne

Ichirou said:


> I think it's because of overclockers who buy a lot of chips at once, and when they find a good one, they figure there is no point to waste time testing out the other ones and they can't refund it to the store, so they just sell it. And because of so many people selling at once, everyone's competing for a lower price. Nobody wants to leave cash lying around depreciating, after all. Especially with Raptor Lake coming.
> 
> I think once Raptor Lake hits, prices will get even lower, and many overclockers who immediately jump to 13th Gen will quickly sell their top binned 12th Gens. It's unfortunate that we don't really have a big marketplace over here, though.


You would think it would better for overclockers if Intel released the KS chips at the same time as the regular K chips, but charged 50% more money, that way you get the most lifespan out of the money invested, but perhaps there are logistical problems with supply, and difficulty binning due to lack of refinements in the fabbing process.

A KS chip always seems to come out right around the time the first ES samples of the next product line start leaking with limited data, and that always seems to hurt KS sales because some people prefer waiting. Or was the gap between 9900K and 10900K--9900KS larger?


----------



## Ichirou

*4,000 CL13 1T at 4x16 GB.*
Only managed to boot into this once before the BIOS gave up ever training it again. Seems like it can't train 67/69 on the RTLs no matter what.
CL13 by default trains to 65/67, and CL14 to 69/71. Not sure how I landed this one instance; might've been a BIOS bug or dumb luck.
Tried everything to get 67/69 again, but to no avail. Already tried several hundred times. Maybe a BIOS hack might allow me to force it to 67/69?


----------



## Falkentyne

Ichirou said:


> Performance preview of Intel Core i9-13900 with 24-cores has been published by SiSoftware - VideoCardz.com
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-13900 test results emerge A preview of the upcoming Intel 13th Gen Core CPU called Core i9-13900 has been published over at SiSoftware. One should note that this is not a typical review based on actual hardware testing, but rather, an aggregation of existing results in the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> videocardz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This doesn't look good for Raptor Lake...
> Supposedly better cache and more E-cores, with a better baseline for DDR5 IMC. That's about it.
> One would assume that the P-cores are better binned, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
> Good for multi-core workloads, but I imagine AMD will catch up in no time with Ryzen 7000 if the gains from ADL are that marginal.


8700K (8086K), 9900K and 10900K were all skylake cores.
9900K with the +2 cores was no worse than 8086K unless you got a REALLY bad sample, and in many cases, disabling 2 cores let you go past 8086K on non terrible samples.
10900K with the +2 cores was always better than 9900KS

Raptor Lake should be every bit as good as 12900 KS. I expect the P cores to be on average like an average 12900KS, and not unreasonable to expect 5.5 ghz on all cores (Don't expect to be running LinX/Linpack/Y-cruncher at that speed though, without a delid).

Intel's binning doesn't get WORSE over time on the same process...


----------



## chentj1988

Falkentyne said:


> 8700K (8086K), 9900K and 10900K were all skylake cores.
> 9900K with the +2 cores was no worse than 8086K unless you got a REALLY bad sample, and in many cases, disabling 2 cores let you go past 8086K on non terrible samples.
> 10900K with the +2 cores was always better than 9900KS
> 
> Raptor Lake should be every bit as good as 12900 KS. I expect the P cores to be on average like an average 12900KS, and not unreasonable to expect 5.5 ghz on all cores (Don't expect to be running LinX/Linpack/Y-cruncher at that speed though, without a delid).
> 
> Intel's binning doesn't get WORSE over time on the same process...


Do you think the 13900 is OC friendly? As E-Core scales badly with voltage.


----------



## Ichirou

chentj1988 said:


> Do you think the 13900 is OC friendly? As E-Core scales badly with voltage.


Well, Raptor Lake's primary focus _are_ the E-cores, so I would imagine that they would be much better binned than ADL.


----------



## nickolp1974

Anyone tested the Rock-it copper vs Stock IHS + Contact frame?? got both but someone may save me the time


----------



## ajolly

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Okay but that's super inconvenient I use all PC parts. I cool a PC not a car


That's all PC parts other than the heat exchanger, and that just separates out the two sides of the loop to make maintenance easier.

Also its half cooling my PC< half cooling the room (so I can run the ac in my bedroom rather than in my living room, since PTAC ac's are loud AF)


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

ajolly said:


> That's all PC parts other than the heat exchanger, and that just separates out the two sides of the loop to make maintenance easier.
> 
> Also its half cooling my PC< half cooling the room (so I can run the ac in my bedroom rather than in my living room, since PTAC ac's are loud AF)


Eh I'll pass. Looks jank as heck (not that my PC doesn't but still)


----------



## david12900k

I decided I am going to try the rockit-cool delid service. I'll be sending in my 12900ks and get it delidded with liquid metal. Hopefully it will let me break the 5.5 all core barrier


----------



## Ichirou

nickolp1974 said:


> Anyone tested the Rock-it copper vs Stock IHS + Contact frame?? got both but someone may save me the time


@sugi0lover knows someone who did, extensively. It's practically placebo between the Copper and Stock IHS. Mostly marketing gimmick. Use whichever you want.

But as for the Thermalright frame, I managed to pull down the minimum Vcore by 0.02V. The temps remained the same at the same Vcore, though.


david12900k said:


> I decided I am going to try the rockit-cool delid service. I'll be sending in my 12900ks and get it delidded with liquid metal. Hopefully it will let me break the 5.5 all core barrier


Would not advise; somebody on Reddit reported that RockIt Cool lost their KS in the mail. Better to just do it yourself.


----------



## chentj1988

nickolp1974 said:


> Anyone tested the Rock-it copper vs Stock IHS + Contact frame?? got both but someone may save me the time


The thermalright frame did not improve my temp, but improved my Ram OC by a lot.


----------



## david12900k

Ichirou said:


> Would not advise; somebody on Reddit reported that RockIt Cool lost their KS in the mail. Better to just do it yourself.


I just looked it up. Looks like Rockit cool had an issue with an order mixup. The latest update said that Rockit-cool was going to redirect the guys package and have it delivered. I'm going to DM the user and see what ended up happening. I have only heard good things about Rockit cool delid service and I don't trust myself


----------



## Ichirou

david12900k said:


> I just looked it up. Looks like Rockit cool had an issue with an order mixup. The latest update said that Rockit-cool was going to redirect the guys package and have it delivered. I'm going to DM the user and see what ended up happening. I have only heard good things about Rockit cool delid service and I don't trust myself


It's really... not that hard. Just use a hair dryer to very thoroughly heat up the chip that's placed inside the kit beforehand, and then tighten a screw. It will pop off eventually.
Then you just do clean-up for the the solder with the Quicksilver kit, and also scrape off the black glue. Apply liquid metal very sparsely without making a glorious mess of it, and you're all good.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

david12900k said:


> I just looked it up. Looks like Rockit cool had an issue with an order mixup. The latest update said that Rockit-cool was going to redirect the guys package and have it delivered. I'm going to DM the user and see what ended up happening. I have only heard good things about Rockit cool delid service and I don't trust myself


Just do it yourself. If you're in UK I can do it for free.... I have the delid kit.

So simple. I was afraid too, just heat up the chip with hair dryer for 40 seconds and then slowly but firmly twist until you hear popping off sounds. Then it's done.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Just do it yourself. If you're in UK I can do it for free.... I have the delid kit.
> 
> So simple. I was afraid too, just heat up the chip with hair dryer for 40 seconds and then slowly but firmly twist until you hear popping off sounds. Then it's done.


The hard part is scraping the old glue off, lol


----------



## sugi0lover

wrong forum.. so sorry!


----------



## chentj1988

Just tested on impact of 100mhz E-Cores on R23.
5.4/4.2/4.4 - 30,925
5.4/4.3/4.5 - 31,149

Run 3 rounds for each test with Real Time priority and the average are about the same. About 250 points increment, in exchange of 2C and Additional 10w. Not bad


----------



## LancerB1

Hi guys.

My catch today is 12900KF BOX #batch V152H762 

SP96
P-Core SP 108
Oh... It is for sale


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

I might test today to see what 8 P cores at 5.6Ghz can do on their own. Would anyone be interested to see the CB15, 20 and 23 benchmarks of such thing?


----------



## gecko991

Absolutely.


----------



## Ichirou

LancerB1 said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> My catch today is 12900KF BOX #batch V152H762
> 
> SP96
> P-Core SP 108
> Oh... It is for sale


Nice, although you probably want to get rid of that quick since 12900 prices are dropping rapidly from oversaturated market and people waiting for Raptor Lake.


----------



## chentj1988

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I might test today to see what 8 P cores at 5.6Ghz can do on their own. Would anyone be interested to see the CB15, 20 and 23 benchmarks of such thing?


By direct cooling right? Yes yes… Would be nice if you include the settings of your Vcore & LLC too. I tried to boot 5.8ghz using Auto Vcore and LLC6 it bsod when posting to window. I’m still waiting for my supercool direct die kit.


----------



## Alberto_It

LancerB1 said:


> Hi guys.
> 
> My catch today is 12900KF BOX #batch V152H762
> 
> SP96
> P-Core SP 108
> Oh... It is for sale


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> By direct cooling right? Yes yes… Would be nice if you include the settings of your Vcore & LLC too. I tried to boot 5.8ghz using Auto Vcore and LLC6 it bsod when posting to window. I’m still waiting for my supercool direct die kit.


Will do when I'm back home


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

I can say right away the voltage during run will be 1.341V as recorded on Vcore by HWInfo.


----------



## chentj1988

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I can say right away the voltage during run will be 1.341V as recorded on Vcore by HWInfo.


My KS has Vload/Vmin of 1.252v @5.4ghz LLC6 (passed 10 R23 multi). But I daily it with 1.37v LLC6 57x3 55x3 54x2 (Vload 1.27v).
Anyway did you adjust your V/F point offset?I see you been running 58 x 2 for daily. Mind share your setting? 😊😊


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> My KS has Vload/Vmin of 1.252v @5.4ghz LLC6 (passed 10 R23 multi). But I daily it with 1.37v LLC6 57x3 55x3 54x2 (Vload 1.27v).
> Anyway did you adjust your V/F point offset?I see you been running 58 x 2 for daily. Mind share your setting? 😊😊


There isn't anything to share.

I don't load offsets. It's all static. 1.44V in BIOS LLC6 becomes 1.341V during load in Windows 10.
3 cores 5.8Ghz and rest 5.6Ghz so multi all core is still 5.6Ghz but if I run games or single core stuff it's 5.8Ghz most of the time.
I can see you got your two cores set to 5.4Ghz, that means all cores will run at that speed. They all follow slowest cores. So setting cores to a spectrum like that doesn't give you any favours.

Try to keep them all the same, except for 3 which would be your main performance increase in games and single core tasks.


----------



## chentj1988

TheNaitsyrk said:


> There isn't anything to share.
> 
> I don't load offsets. It's all static. 1.44V in BIOS LLC6 becomes 1.341V during load in Windows 10.
> 3 cores 5.8Ghz and rest 5.6Ghz so multi all core is still 5.6Ghz but if I run games or single core stuff it's 5.8Ghz most of the time.
> I can see you got your two cores set to 5.4Ghz, that means all cores will run at that speed. They all follow slowest cores. So setting cores to a spectrum like that doesn't give you any favours.
> 
> Try to keep them all the same, except for 3 which would be your main performance increase in games and single core tasks.


I set lowest 2 cores to 5.4 because I want it to run 5.4 all core. But I probably will set it to 57x3 54x5 because like you said the 55x3 seems no impact also. Btw what’s your Vcore when you run single core at 5.8?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> I set lowest 2 cores to 5.4 because I want it to run 5.4 all core. But I probably will set it to 57x3 54x5 because like you said the 55x3 seems no impact also. Btw what’s your Vcore when you run single core at 5.8?


Not sure, it's static so I assume it's 1.341V also. It's my 3 strongest cores.


----------



## david12900k

Here is what the Thermal Grizzly Contact frame thermal paste pattern looks like. I know, I used way too much thermal paste. Looks like it results in pretty good contact.
I'm using the EK Velocity2 block


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> There isn't anything to share.
> 
> I don't load offsets. It's all static. 1.44V in BIOS LLC6 becomes 1.341V during load in Windows 10.
> 3 cores 5.8Ghz and rest 5.6Ghz so multi all core is still 5.6Ghz but if I run games or single core stuff it's 5.8Ghz most of the time.
> I can see you got your two cores set to 5.4Ghz, that means all cores will run at that speed. They all follow slowest cores. So setting cores to a spectrum like that doesn't give you any favours.
> 
> Try to keep them all the same, except for 3 which would be your main performance increase in games and single core tasks.





chentj1988 said:


> I set lowest 2 cores to 5.4 because I want it to run 5.4 all core. But I probably will set it to 57x3 54x5 because like you said the 55x3 seems no impact also. Btw what’s your Vcore when you run single core at 5.8?


Do your motherboards not have a per core mode?
MSI does, and I'm pretty sure ASUS does as well. Let's you set specific multipliers to each core, which are not linked to active core count.
Specific cores don't get clocked down when there are more/less cores active.

On this average 12900KF that I have, five of the cores are set to 53x while three are set to 52x, and they are running on max load at all times.


----------



## chentj1988

Ichirou said:


> Do your motherboards not have a per core mode?
> MSI does, and I'm pretty sure ASUS does as well. Let's you set specific multipliers to each core, which are not linked to active core count. So you don't get clocked down.
> 
> On this average 12900KF I have, five of the cores are set to 53x while three are set to 52x, and they are running on max load at all times.


Yeap I set 57/57/57/55/55/55/54/54 mine previously, but I think I should set it with 2 frequency only because most games are running All cores. My current setting is 57/57/57/54/54/54/54/54. My final goal is to run it 58x2 55x6 when I receive my direct kit. But interested to know if 1.4v @ 5.8ghz single core under load is dangerous to the system or not


----------



## sugi0lover

chentj1988 said:


> Yeap I set 57/57/57/55/55/55/54/54 mine previously, but I think I should set it with 2 frequency only because most games are running All cores. My current setting is 57/57/57/54/54/54/54/54. My final goal is to run it 58x2 55x6 when I receive my direct kit. But interested to know if 1.4v @ 5.8ghz single core under load is dangerous to the system or not


If your oc goal is for better gaming, I think it's better to focus on ram oc than cores oc 😊 
From my experiece, core oc doesn't make much difference in gaming once your oc is already above 5.3Ghz all cores.


----------



## chentj1988

sugi0lover said:


> If your oc goal is for better gaming, I think it's better to focus on ram oc than cores oc 😊
> From my experiece, core oc doesn't make much difference in gaming once your oc is already above 5.3Ghz all cores.


Actually I’m preparing for 4090. Switching from Ddr4 to Ddr5 with the same 12900 had boost my 3090 usage to 99%. Previously it was hovering around 85-90%. As far as I know, tight ram timing helps Low Fps a lot. But when 4090 is out, I wonder if my 12900ks can keep up the 4090 or not. That’s why I’m still testing the limit of the cpu.


----------



## sugi0lover

chentj1988 said:


> Actually I’m preparing for 4090. Switching from Ddr4 to Ddr5 with the same 12900 had boost my 3090 usage to 99%. Previously it was hovering around 85-90%. As far as I know, tight ram timing helps Low Fps a lot. But when 4090 is out, I wonder if my 12900ks can keep up the 4090 or not. That’s why I’m still testing the limit of the cpu.


I understand. For 4090/Ti, my plan is the 13th Gen + close to 8000Mhz Ram OC


----------



## Raphie

Just ordered my 12900ks from Amazon as well, lets see if it‘s binning makes a difference with my g-skill 6400/32
I want 6800/cl30 too. This should carry me over until raptor lake cpu upgrade.


----------



## chentj1988

sugi0lover said:


> I understand. For 4090/Ti, my plan is the 13th Gen + close to 8000Mhz Ram OC


The hunt of Golden Sample 13900ks + IMC continues when 4090 out 😂. Is Ocing a hot trend in Korea? There’s a guy called Bisobiso from Korea top 3Dmark Timespy ranking too. Do people sell golden sample GPU in Korea too?


----------



## sugi0lover

chentj1988 said:


> The hunt of Golden Sample 13900ks + IMC continues when 4090 out 😂. Is Ocing a hot trend in Korea? There’s a guy called Bisobiso from Korea top 3Dmark Timespy ranking too. Do people sell golden sample GPU in Korea too?


Hunting must go on 😊. I see many people binning and ocing in Korea. I talked to Biso a couple of times. 
I see this cpu is on sale currently. SP104 (P115 E82) 12900K, but he is selling it as a whole PC not just CPU.


Spoiler: SP104














The PC is on sale here for USD 3,700 


https://cafe.naver.com/joonggonara/924678139


----------



## chentj1988

-deleted-


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> I understand. For 4090/Ti, my plan is the 13th Gen + close to 8000Mhz Ram OC





sugi0lover said:


> Hunting must go on 😊. I see many people binning and ocing in Korea. I talked to Biso a couple of times.
> I see this cpu is on sale currently. SP104 (P115 E82) 12900K, but he is selling it as a whole PC not just CPU.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: SP104
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2564534
> 
> 
> 
> The PC is on sale here for USD 3,700
> 
> 
> https://cafe.naver.com/joonggonara/924678139


That's a really nice system. Seller isn't making much profit at all after factoring GPU and other parts price.
What's your SP for your chip again? Wasn't it very similar?


----------



## Groove2013

EKWB Velocity 2 CPU block + DDD 4.2 and small reservoir - all-in-one )









EKWB unveils EK-Quantum Velocity2 Kinetic DDC 4.2 for AM4/5 and LGA1700 sockets | Club386


A pump/water-block/reservoir combo for compact enthusiast builds.




www.club386.com


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> EKWB Velocity 2 CPU block + DDD 4.2 and small reservoir - all-in-one )
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EKWB unveils EK-Quantum Velocity2 Kinetic DDC 4.2 for AM4/5 and LGA1700 sockets | Club386
> 
> 
> A pump/water-block/reservoir combo for compact enthusiast builds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.club386.com


Kinda cool, although largely optional. And price would not be really great. Would like a transparent version though.


----------



## z390e

chentj1988 said:


> The hunt of Golden Sample 13900ks + IMC continues when 4090 out 😂. Is Ocing a hot trend in Korea? There’s a guy called Bisobiso from Korea top 3Dmark Timespy ranking too. Do people sell golden sample GPU in Korea too?


biso biso top of almost all the 3dmark tests but dont see them on HwBot

Can't wait for Raptor lake, so tantalizing just reading recent articles

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-raptor-lake-benchmark-sisoftware


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> That's a really nice system. Seller isn't making much profit at all after factoring GPU and other parts price.
> What's your SP for your chip again? Wasn't it very similar?


My chip is SP103, P115, E79. I had SP104 for a while and had some brief time with SP105.
I prefer my current SP103 because this one has better imc than SP104 and 105.
I don't know how good that new SP104's imc is since he has no mention or post about it.
My imc can do the below no problem, so I stick with my current one until the 13th gen comes out.


sugi0lover said:


> I haven't tried Ram OC for a while since I couldn't do 7400 CL30 atm.
> Today, I had some fun with bclk oc and got stable with Karhu 10000%.
> I don't use e-cores for my gaming usage, so e cores off. E cores on/off doesn't affect my ram stability at all.
> Hwinfo64 ran only with Cinebench to check voltages, wattage and temp.
> 
> [System Setup]
> ○ CPU : 12900K Direct Die (SP103, P115, E79) / all cores (P 5.6G , E off , Cache 5.3G)
> ○ Ram : KLEVV Hynix 4800 CL40
> ○ Ram OC : 7333Mhz-30-41-40-28-310-2T
> ○ MB : Z690 Apex
> ○ Voltages (actual under load) : Vcore 1.341v / VDD 1.665v / VDDQ 1.590v / VDDQ TX 1.54 / MC 1.332v / SA 1.120v / VPP 1.905v
> ○ Cooling : MORA 420 Pro (CPU, VGA, RAM)
> 
> View attachment 2564380
> 
> 
> [Edit : Aida64 Bench = bclk oc got better performance than it actually is]
> View attachment 2564394


----------



## wadec22

Have a 12900ks on the way.

Currently I'm using an alphacool eisbaer black extreme. Think that's good enough or should I expand with an additional rad?


----------



## Ichirou

wadec22 said:


> Have a 12900ks on the way.
> 
> Currently I'm using an alphacool eisbaer black extreme. Think that's good enough or should I expand with an additional rad?


You'll want at least a good 380mm.


----------



## gecko991

I think I need a KS chip.


----------



## Ichirou

gecko991 said:


> I think I need a KS chip.


Better off waiting for Raptor Lake or buying a binned KS that'll get liquidated soon by someone going for Raptor Lake.


----------



## Raphie

I need to build my son a gaming rig, so whether I put a 300€ ADL in or my 12900k doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things. So I’m happy spending the extra 400€, give him a faster rig, sorting out myself as well while at it 
the KS should at least be as good, if not I’ll send it back (not sure if Amazon refunds opened CPU’s as I never see B stocks)


----------



## VGeorge

Hi everyone,
I'll be selling my SP99 12900K if anyone's interested.
The subscores if I recall correctly (it's not in my system right now) are 109 for the P-Cores and 82 for the E-Cores. Here's what it can do in CB23:








[Official] Intel Core i9-12900K / i7-12700K P-core binning


This thread makes me sad. I can't even get 5.0 stable at over 1.3v with two 12700k samples. Just ran 5.0 @ 1.310vcore overnight and it crashed at hour 7. I could get a screenshot of 5.1 at 1.3v running cinebench but it will eventually BSOD This is with a custom loop and Corsair XC5, new...




www.overclock.net












[Official] Intel Core i9-12900K / i7-12700K P-core binning


This thread makes me sad. I can't even get 5.0 stable at over 1.3v with two 12700k samples. Just ran 5.0 @ 1.310vcore overnight and it crashed at hour 7. I could get a screenshot of 5.1 at 1.3v running cinebench but it will eventually BSOD This is with a custom loop and Corsair XC5, new...




www.overclock.net




I will of course install it again to run some more tests and take a screenshot of all three scores.


----------



## xGeNeSisx

Seems the Thermalright ILM replacement helped temps. Also finally got EK Quantum backplate that is compatible with supremacy EVO block to sit flush. Previously couldnt get the standoffs to thread properly and this was leading to poor contact. Seems to have knocked 5-10C off temps, but I need to test it in stress tests. Just did some gaming as a general test. I want to see if the temp savings have lessened required Vcore as a few others have reported, even if it's just 20 mV.


----------



## Raphie

Let the game begin….


----------



## xGeNeSisx

After stress testing, I can confirm that Thermalright bracket along with better block backplate mounting knocked temps down by an average of 7C! 12600k, 1.32V V-core, P-cores 5.2ghz turbo ratio on all cores, 4.0ghz E-cores, 4.0ghz ring bus. Hitting 55-60C stress testing now instead of 65-67C+. Idle temps are now 25C instead of 30C. I didn't think I would have such an improvement and thought my cooler would be fine. Guess I was mistaken. I installed it mainly to protect the board and chip and didn't really expect such drastic results on package temperatures. Excellent value at $5 shipped on AliExpress after new user discount and shipping was only 3 weeks. I'd recommend it to anyone overclocking, at worst it will lead to marginal or no improvement. It will avoid warping the board and IHS over time and looks far better than stock ILM imo.


----------



## tubs2x4

xGeNeSisx said:


> After stress testing, I can confirm that Thermalright bracket along with better block backplate mounting knocked temps down by an average of 7C! 12600k, 1.32V V-core, P-cores 5.2ghz turbo ratio on all cores, 4.0ghz E-cores, 4.0ghz ring bus. Hitting 55-60C stress testing now instead of 65-67C+. Idle temps are now 25C instead of 30C. I didn't think I would have such an improvement and thought my cooler would be fine. Guess I was mistaken. I installed it mainly to protect the board and chip and didn't really expect such drastic results on package temperatures. Excellent value at $5 shipped on AliExpress after new user discount and shipping was only 3 weeks. I'd recommend it to anyone overclocking, at worst it will lead to marginal or no improvement. It will avoid warping the board and IHS over time and looks far better than stock ILM imo.


Does the stock backplate stay in motherboard when you take stock clamp off? Or do you have to tape it or put something underneath to keep it to the motherboard while you swap clamps out?


----------



## Falkentyne

tubs2x4 said:


> Does the stock backplate stay in motherboard when you take stock clamp off? Or do you have to tape it or put something underneath to keep it to the motherboard while you swap clamps out?


Good question, can someone answer this?


----------



## bscool

Falkentyne said:


> Good question, can someone answer this?


It will fall off if you dont have something holding it in place. I just leave my backplate from the Arctic AIO or Raystorm on and it hold it in place.


----------



## xGeNeSisx

bscool said:


> It will fall off if you dont have something holding it in place. I just leave my backplate from the Arctic AIO or Raystorm on and it hold it in place.


Yep this is exactly what I did, EK backplate kept it in place. Some electrical tape on the back will make it easier to mount. I'd do that or find a volunteer to hold it while you drop in the clean CPU, unscrew ILM and remove, then place bracket and tighten in X pattern to ensure even mounting


----------



## chentj1988

Theres a sp107 on sales at china market. The vid table looks sick though.


----------



## z390e

When you live in an area that sees literally 20c ambient temperature swings, what is a good rule for OC'ing these chips. If ambient is decent my KS can handle as low as 1.302 but if ambients are at their worst it barely does 1.318 override.


----------



## sugi0lover

I see some people having problem with Thermalright bracket or something similar when they remove the Thermalright bracket.
CPU will be lifted along when bracket is removed, so the cpu dropped to the cpu socket damaging cpu pins.
One guy's cpu died by this.
It's highly recommended that you put your finger into cpu to secure it while removing the bracket.


----------



## david12900k

sugi0lover said:


> I see some people having problem with Thermalright bracket or something similar when they remove the Thermalright bracket.
> CPU will be lifted along when bracket is removed, so the cpu dropped to the cpu bracket damaging cpu pins.
> One guy's cpu died by this.
> It's highly recommended that you put your finger into cpu to secure it while removing the bracket.


My 12900ks completely came out with the bracket and I did not realize for like 20 seconds. Could have been bad


----------



## Raphie

I still fail to see how the bracket can do anything on a A brand 8 layer board with half decent backplate
the clamp mechanism lever can be secured with one finger, the frame can’t be bend by hand even in a vice you’ll have to apply some serious wrenching to bend it. Then the socket itself stays as is and can’t bend with 8 layer board and metal backplate (some boards even have their own intergrated frames as well.
the premise of the frame is 360degr. equal pressure, but that’s already happening through the socket supporting the cpu back.
Maybe I’m missing something. But the pressures applied are not in bending territory at least on MSI boards. Taking my D15 of I also saw an equal spread pattern of paste, no concave or uncovered area in the middle.


----------



## satinghostrider

chentj1988 said:


> Theres a sp107 on sales at china market. The vid table looks sick though.
> View attachment 2564689












SP97 12900KS Vietnam VID
106 P-Core 82 E-Core


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

satinghostrider said:


> View attachment 2564708
> 
> 
> SP97 12900KS Vietnam VID
> 106 P-Core 82 E-Core


Pretty good, can defo do 5.6Ghz on Pcores.


----------



## chentj1988

satinghostrider said:


> View attachment 2564708
> 
> 
> SP97 12900KS Vietnam VID
> 106 P-Core 82 E-Core


Nice… The one I posted was sold just now


----------



## sugi0lover

Recent high SP 12900KS I have seen in this week~



Spoiler: SP98 12900KS



[Unfortunately P-Core SP is not that high considering very high general SP98]













Spoiler: SP95 12900KS



[P-Core SP is good considering general SP is 95]


----------



## acoustic

Time to start binning chips for E cores LOL


----------



## chentj1988

sugi0lover said:


> Recent high SP 12900KS I have seen in this week~
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: SP98 12900KS
> 
> 
> 
> [Unfortunately P-Core SP is not that high considering very high general SP98]
> View attachment 2564710
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: SP95 12900KS
> 
> 
> 
> [P-Core SP is good considering general SP is 95]
> View attachment 2564711


That SP98 with 84E could be very good… maybe he can run 5.5/4.5/4.7 with Vload voltage. Lol…


----------



## warbucks

sugi0lover said:


> Recent high SP 12900KS I have seen in this week~
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: SP98 12900KS
> 
> 
> 
> [Unfortunately P-Core SP is not that high considering very high general SP98]
> View attachment 2564710
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: SP95 12900KS
> 
> 
> 
> [P-Core SP is good considering general SP is 95]
> View attachment 2564711


I picked up a new KS two weeks ago:


----------



## chentj1988

warbucks said:


> I picked up a new KS two weeks ago:
> 
> 
> View attachment 2564739


You just put everyone into silent mode because you are lucky as f. Lol… Congrats and that’s a clean ViD table!


----------



## Wilco183

chentj1988 said:


> You just put everyone into silent mode because you are lucky as f. Lol… Congrats and that’s a clean ViD table!


I really enjoy seeing these chip success screenshots...gives me hope for the next round. Mine has a couple of similarities though: core ranking is sequential 0-7, and my overall SP is the same as that one's e core SP lol.


----------



## chentj1988

Wilco183 said:


> I really enjoy seeing these chip success screenshots...gives me hope for the next round. Mine has a couple of similarities though: core ranking is sequential 0-7, and my overall SP is the same as that one's e core SP lol.


My sincere advice to you, if you are casual PC enthusiast like me, just stick with what you got. I got myself a SP100 12900k and a SP96 12900ks. It was fun for having good chip, you probably got better temp and score than others, other than that the performance increment is basically not worth the bucks you spent. Unless if you are extreme OC who aiming for daily 5.5ghz+ all Pcore with good cooling solution. Else it’s definitely not worth it to aim for high SP chip.

In the end of the day, after months of playing voltages and frequencies, I found that Asus AIOC with -0.075mv is the most practical OC for my chip. Lol…


----------



## sugi0lover

Wilco183 said:


> I really enjoy seeing these chip success screenshots...gives me hope for the next round. Mine has a couple of similarities though: core ranking is sequential 0-7, and my overall SP is the same as that one's e core SP lol.


You may have seen this 12900KS I posted. This is the highest P-Core SP 12900KS I have seen, which my freind owns.


Spoiler: P-SP 108 12900KS


----------



## chentj1988

sugi0lover said:


> You may have seen this 12900KS I posted. This is the highest P-Core SP 12900KS I have seen, which my freind owns.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: P-SP 108 12900KS
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2564787


Wonder if there’s any 1.413v x 8 cores exist. But it seems like the vid table does not guarantee good Vload and IMC. The lottery beneath the lottery. 😂


----------



## sugi0lover

warbucks said:


> I picked up a new KS two weeks ago:
> 
> 
> View attachment 2564739


I have never seen that all Core VIDs are exactly the same unless it's SP bug. If it's not SP bug, very interesting that this pattern of vids exists.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Highest I've seen is my own, SP99, p110. 

Cooling isn't up to task(480mm) so I leave it @5.3GHz.


----------



## sugi0lover

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Highest I've seen is my own, SP99, p110.
> 
> Cooling isn't up to task(480mm) so I leave it @5.3GHz.
> 
> View attachment 2564789


Your 12900KS looks weird as all other 12900KS show P0 Frequency 5500Mhz, P1 Frequency 5200Mhz  
Does it still show like that on the newest bios?


----------



## chentj1988

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Highest I've seen is my own, SP99, p110.
> 
> Cooling isn't up to task(480mm) so I leave it @5.3GHz.
> 
> View attachment 2564789


Maybe Asus motherboard can’t handle your chip that’s why it shows 5400/5100 vid table instead of 5500/5200. Out of calculation 😂


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

I'm on the Dark now, Apex on the shelf.

Couldn't say why it's weird.


----------



## snakeeyes111

If it Show 5.4, its sp Bug.


----------



## Alberto_It

My 12900k have got better E-Cores


----------



## wadec22

Got my KS installed last night. Running stock on my MSI z690 edge wifi. 2, 280mm rads. Stock bench had one of the 5.5ghz cores throttle at 96c. Temps ranged 89-96c on the p cores.

That normal or should I reseat the cpu block? Guessing I can tame it a bit by taking msi voltages off auto as well.

Oh, im running latest BIOS too


----------



## jomama22

I'll just remind everyone again that SP is very nearly meaningless with the KS skew and no, they are not comparable to the K sp values. People have had sp96 with 104 p-core not be able to do 5.6 allcore with direct die block which my sp 94/p-core 102 has 0 issues doing it. I also had a SP 90/p-core 97 that had no issues doing 5.5 without direct die block (and possibly 5.6 with).

You need to actually bench the chip, not spout sp scores.


----------



## matique

Never really ventured into the 5.5 range properly because I always thought it was unstable but lo and behold, it was just a matter of finding the right voltage/llc range. 1.48v LLC6 MSI. 5.5p AVX512 paired with 7040c30.

YC 1b:








matique`s y-cruncher - Pi-1b score: 18sec 383ms with a Core i9 12900K (8P)


The Core i9 12900K (8P) @ 5508.4MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the y-cruncher - Pi-1b benchmark. matiqueranks #37 worldwide and #31 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org





YC 2.5b:








matique`s y-cruncher - Pi-2.5b score: 52sec 888ms with a Core i9 12900K (8P)


The Core i9 12900K (8P) @ 5500.5MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the y-cruncher - Pi-2.5b benchmark. matiqueranks #9 worldwide and #9 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org


----------



## david12900k

I sent my 12900KS SP 98 (P-SP 105, E-SP 85) to Rockit Cool to get it Delidded. Since im using the Thermal Grizzly Contact frame, I elected to keep the stock IHS. They did some data collection before and after and sent me the raw dumps of CSV data. I compiled the temps for before vs after. The top data are the numbers for Averages and the bottom data are the numbers for maximums.
*NOTE: I dont know which software they used to test, what cooler, etc. It did appear that whatever stress test they ran was stock for stock and also caused a LOT of thermal throttling stock.
When I get it back on Monday, I will be able to compare to the numbers I got before I sent it in for a more direct comparison:

AVERAGES:

StatPre-DelidPost-DelidDifference ValueDifference %Package Temperature99.7517483​94.013986​5.73776224​5.75204179​Package TDP243.294978​269.538883​-26.243906​-10.786867​P-Core 0 Temperature92.8444056​87.3601399​5.48426573​5.90694259​P-Core 1 Temperature91.0437063​84.8409091​6.2027972​6.81298846​P-Core 2 Temperature95.4772727​90.4702797​5.00699301​5.24417263​P-Core 3 Temperature94.6468531​88.9982517​5.6486014​5.96808157​P-Core 4 Temperature96.8881119​92.1451049​4.74300699​4.89534464​P-Core 5 Temperature99.527972​93.2674825​6.26048951​6.29018093​P-Core 6 Temperature98.9300699​93.7395105​5.19055944​5.24669541​P-Core 7 Temperature99.3951049​93.4143357​5.98076923​6.01716678​

MAXIMUMS:

StatPre-DelidPost-DelidDifference ValueDifference %Package Temperature100​96​4​4​Package TDP277.9705​282.72​-4.7495​-1.7086345​P-Core 0 Temperature96​90​6​6.25​P-Core 1 Temperature93​87​6​6.4516129​P-Core 2 Temperature97​92​5​5.15463918​P-Core 3 Temperature96​90​6​6.25​P-Core 4 Temperature100​93​7​7​P-Core 5 Temperature100​95​5​5​P-Core 6 Temperature100​96​4​4​P-Core 7 Temperature100​95​5​5​

I really am going to have to wait to get the CPU back and do my own testing and comparison. I have a feeling these numbers were skewed a little low (as in the delid will make a bigger difference than this is showing) because the chip thermal throttled in the stock test, so it caps the max values it can go vs the delid


----------



## Ichirou

*Okay everyone, I may be the very first one here to experience a genuine case of degradation.*
_(For reference, my CPU is running with five cores at 53x and three cores at 52x, all E-cores disabled, and 50x cache.)_

I was doing some testing to see if I could push my chip (12900KF) further in y-cruncher.
*Previously, my rock stable config needed 1.36V Vcore on load to pass the component stress test with all tests enabled.*
This was enough Vcore to pass it no matter how many times I ran the test over the past two or so months.

*However, after running the CPU at 1.37-1.38V on load for only a few hours total (some cores peaked 95-100C), I can no longer pass the test at 1.36V on load.*
I reloaded and used the exact same profile as my stable config. I even reflashed the BIOS twice and did plenty of SFC scans to rule out corruption. Retried several times.

*I now need 1.365V on load to pass y-cruncher's component stress test.*
_(I also tested it with VCCSA and VDDQ raised to 1.40V and 1.60V from 1.35V and 1.50V, but I can still pass with what I had previously. So they are fine.)_

If anyone has been wondering about degradation for the 12th Gen, there is now some evidence to work off of. It's not much, but it's a start.
This generation must not be as friendly as previous ones, if degradation already happens in the upper 1.35-1.40V range.
*Keep your temps under 85-90C at most. Even less if possible.*


----------



## SuperMumrik

Ichirou said:


> Keep your temps under 85-90C at most. Even less if possible


Supercool computer direct-die block FTW😎


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Try clearing the mobo. Turn off pc, turn off psu, unplug it. Press the power button a few times. Then press it again but hold for about 5 seconds. Put plug back into psu, turn it on, turn PC on. See if the old overclock is ok in Y-cruncher.


----------



## affxct

Ichirou said:


> *Okay everyone, I may be the very first one here to experience a genuine case of degradation.*
> _(For reference, my CPU is running with five cores at 53x and three cores at 52x, all E-cores disabled, and 50x cache.)_
> 
> I was doing some testing to see if I could push my chip (12900KF) further in y-cruncher.
> *Previously, my rock stable config needed 1.36V Vcore on load to pass the component stress test with all tests enabled.*
> This was enough Vcore to pass it no matter how many times I ran the test over the past two or so months.
> 
> *However, after running the CPU at 1.37-1.38V on load for only a few hours total (some cores peaked 95-100C), I can no longer pass the test at 1.36V on load.*
> I reloaded and used the exact same profile as my stable config. I even reflashed the BIOS twice and did plenty of SFC scans to rule out corruption. Retried several times.
> 
> *I now need 1.365V on load to pass y-cruncher's component stress test.*
> _(I also tested it with VCCSA and VDDQ raised to 1.40V and 1.60V from 1.35V and 1.50V, but I can still pass with what I had previously. So they are fine.)_
> 
> If anyone has been wondering about degradation for the 12th Gen, there is now some evidence to work off of. It's not much, but it's a start.
> This generation must not be as friendly as previous ones, if degradation already happens in the upper 1.35-1.40V range.
> *Keep your temps under 85-90C at most. Even less if possible.*


I assume you mean 1.37-1.38 socket sense (like what the Z690-A would report). That kinds makes sense tbh. Last night I was thinking about this very thing because the chip that I traded for currently has its best OC results at 1.375V set with around 1.225V load Vcore (die sense). That'd be around 1.3V socket sense, and it maxed at 92c. Probably a bit eerily close to the edge. 

But yeah, I'd have assumed that for 1.35V one would want to stay at around 80-85 under an AVX load, and for 1.4V or close to it at load, I'd have personally stayed at 70-75 on a serious cooling setup i.e., I don't think above 1.35 load Vcore is a good idea in general, it's just far too warm for most setups tbh. Sometimes the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.

I mean, at the very least it's only 5mV. It might be wise to drop to a 1.3-1.325 load Vcore daily if you're maxing at 95-100 though. I say that purely because 1.365 is nearing that 1.37-1.38V range again.


----------



## jomama22

Ichirou said:


> *Okay everyone, I may be the very first one here to experience a genuine case of degradation.*
> _(For reference, my CPU is running with five cores at 53x and three cores at 52x, all E-cores disabled, and 50x cache.)_
> 
> I was doing some testing to see if I could push my chip (12900KF) further in y-cruncher.
> *Previously, my rock stable config needed 1.36V Vcore on load to pass the component stress test with all tests enabled.*
> This was enough Vcore to pass it no matter how many times I ran the test over the past two or so months.
> 
> *However, after running the CPU at 1.37-1.38V on load for only a few hours total (some cores peaked 95-100C), I can no longer pass the test at 1.36V on load.*
> I reloaded and used the exact same profile as my stable config. I even reflashed the BIOS twice and did plenty of SFC scans to rule out corruption. Retried several times.
> 
> *I now need 1.365V on load to pass y-cruncher's component stress test.*
> _(I also tested it with VCCSA and VDDQ raised to 1.40V and 1.60V from 1.35V and 1.50V, but I can still pass with what I had previously. So they are fine.)_
> 
> If anyone has been wondering about degradation for the 12th Gen, there is now some evidence to work off of. It's not much, but it's a start.
> This generation must not be as friendly as previous ones, if degradation already happens in the upper 1.35-1.40V range.
> *Keep your temps under 85-90C at most. Even less if possible.*


Would genuinely more attribute that to just the chip breaking in than anything else. Even at very low voltage levels (like 1.1v), given a small amount of runtime, there will be wear to the various layers of copper and silicon on an atomic level.

This is all accounted for with stock voltage levels and hence why large amounts of undervolting can be achieved on every chip produced.


----------



## Ichirou

MrTOOSHORT said:


> Try clearing the mobo. Turn off pc, turn off psu, unplug it. Press the power button a few times. Then press it again but hold for about 5 seconds. Put plug back into psu, turn it on, turn PC on. See if the old overclock is ok in Y-cruncher.


I've gone as far as reflashing the BIOS twice, lol. I know what I am doing 
y-cruncher only passes at 1.365V+ now. I retested 1.360V after testing both 1.370V and 1.365V in a row to rule out any randomness.


affxct said:


> I assume you mean 1.37-1.38 socket sense (like what the Z690-A would report). That kinds makes sense tbh. Last night I was thinking about this very thing because the chip that I traded for currently has its best OC results at 1.375V set with around 1.225V load Vcore (die sense). That'd be around 1.3V socket sense, and it maxed at 92c. Probably a bit eerily close to the edge.
> 
> But yeah, I'd have assumed that for 1.35V one would want to stay at around 80-85 under an AVX load, and for 1.4V or close to it at load, I'd have personally stayed at 70-75 on a serious cooling setup i.e., I don't think above 1.35 load Vcore is a good idea in general, it's just far too warm for most setups tbh. Sometimes the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.
> 
> I mean, at the very least it's only 5mV. It might be wise to drop to a 1.3-1.325 load Vcore daily if you're maxing at 95-100 though. I say that purely because 1.365 is nearing that 1.37-1.38V range again.


I was testing maximums just to see what I can do. I'm obviously not running y-cruncher 24/7, especially the component stress test. I just didn't think that it would happen this quickly.


jomama22 said:


> Would genuinely more attribute that to just the chip breaking in than anything else. Even at very low voltage levels (like 1.1v), given a small amount of runtime, there will be wear to the various layers of copper and silicon on an atomic level.
> 
> This is all accounted for with stock voltage levels and hence why large amounts of undervolting can be achieved on every chip produced.


This is another possibility as well, yes. But I've already pinpointed the lowest Vcore and LLC I can run on this chip for the core multipliers I set.
Again, it's not much to go on, and it is just one sample, but it does provide some introductory insight.


----------



## affxct

Ichirou said:


> I was testing maximums just to see what I can do. I'm obviously not running y-cruncher 24/7, especially the component stress test. I just didn't think that it would happen this quickly.


I totally get that. Back when I had that crappy IMC, crappy thermal resistance, crappy scaling SP 81 I always used to complain about; I one day decided to give BCLK OCing a go. I only ran 1.4V-1.425V L4-L5 (50mV-80mV AVX droop) for around 3 hours with tests crashing within seconds. Somehow later than night it seemed that my previous OC needed 10mV extra. I made mention of it on the BZ Discord as well. 

I can't be certain, but I'm pretty sure I degraded the chip by 10mV tbh. This is all relative to that Z690-F. Its voltage regulation is awful compared to that of the Taichi and Apex, so testing on the Taichi yielded good results in general, but oddly it would always seem like a seemingly doable OC would always need 10mV on top. So 1.3V would always fail late and need 1.31. Kinda odd.


----------



## Ichirou

affxct said:


> I totally get that. Back when I had that crappy IMC, crappy thermal resistance, crappy scaling SP 81 I always used to complain about; I one day decided to give BCLK OCing a go. I only ran 1.4V-1.425V L4-L5 (50mV-80mV AVX droop) for around 3 hours with tests crashing within seconds. Somehow later than night it seemed that my previous OC needed 10mV extra. I made mention of it on the BZ Discord as well. I can't be certain, but I'm pretty sure I degraded the chip by 10mV tbh.


Definitely sounds like a similar situation to mine. Naturally, 1.380V isn't much, but when you're hammering the chip with that voltage at 95-100C, that's going to exacerbate the problem.
These thinner 7nm processes are clearly not as durable as their former 14nm thicker ones.


----------



## affxct

Ichirou said:


> Definitely sounds like a similar situation to mine. Naturally, 1.380V isn't much, but when you're hammering the chip with that voltage at 95-100C, that's going to exacerbate the problem.
> These thinner 7nm processes are clearly not as durable as their former 14nm thicker ones.


Kinda inevitable tbh. Same reason I'm not super convinced that H16M at 1.6-1.65V is safe XD. 

Begs the question, how come D4 dudes are daily'ing up to 1.45 SA and how come us D4 dudes are daily'ing up to 1.55 TX VDDQ. Mmmmmmm.


----------



## Nizzen

affxct said:


> Kinda inevitable tbh. Same reason I'm not super convinced that H16M at 1.6-1.65V is safe XD.
> 
> Begs the question, how come D4 dudes are daily'ing up to 1.45 SA and how come us D4 dudes are daily'ing up to 1.55 TX VDDQ. Mmmmmmm.


I was daily 1.52 SA on z490 Apex and 10900k 🤭 4700c17 1t


----------



## Ichirou

affxct said:


> Kinda inevitable tbh. Same reason I'm not super convinced that H16M at 1.6-1.65V is safe XD.
> 
> Begs the question, how come D4 dudes are daily'ing up to 1.45 SA and how come us D4 dudes are daily'ing up to 1.55 TX VDDQ. Mmmmmmm.


Probably because on some boards, 1.45V SA is the automatic max SA voltage that boards can allocate up to. I had it happen on both the Strix and Edge.
I imagine that it's intended for compatibility on Gear 1, and it is probably safe... as long as the RAM is on XMP or only lightly overclocked.
DDR4 and DDR5 differs, so memory voltages cannot really be compared.

As for VDDQ (on DDR4), ASUS themselves stated that up to 1.60V is safe due to the nature of how the FIVR rail works.
If it's too high, it'll trip and fail to boot long before you can cause any actual problems.

Personally, I try to stay with 1.35V VCCSA and 1.50V VDDQ. So close to the top, but not quite.
For 4,133 CL14 1T Gear 1 with 4x16 GB, I need at least 1.35V VCCSA (it won't pass y-cruncher below), and 1.50V VDDQ (haven't tested 1.46-1.49V yet, but 1.45V doesn't work).


----------



## affxct

Ichirou said:


> Probably because on some boards, 1.45V SA is the automatic max SA voltage that boards can allocate up to. I had it happen on both the Strix and Edge.
> I imagine that it's intended for compatibility on Gear 1, and it is probably safe... as long as the RAM is on XMP or only lightly overclocked.
> 
> I imagine that DDR4 and DDR5 differs, so the memory voltages cannot really be compared.
> 
> As for VDDQ, ASUS themselves stated that up to 1.60V is safe due to the nature of how the FIVR rail works.
> If it's too high, it'll trip and fail to boot long before you can cause any actual problems.
> 
> Personally, I try to stay with 1.35V VCCSA and 1.50V VDDQ. So close to the top, but not quite.
> For my 4,133 CL14 1T Gear 1 config with 4x16 GB, I need at least 1.35V VCCSA (it won't pass y-cruncher below it), and 1.50V VDDQ (I haven't tested 1.46-1.49V yet, but 1.45V doesn't work).


Damn, this is actually good to know. So I can literally jam 1.6V Transmitter DQ through my chip and that's that? That's actually awesome to know.


----------



## affxct

Nizzen said:


> I was daily 1.52 SA on z490 Apex and 10900k 🤭 4700c17 1t


How cold do you usually run your stuff?


----------



## Ichirou

affxct said:


> Damn, this is actually good to know. So I can literally jam 1.6V Transmitter DQ through my chip and that's that? That's actually awesome to know.


DDR4 and DDR5 VDDQ might differ. That detail is accurate for DDR4 only.
However, since the FIVR rail would trip long before any damage is done, I don't see why it shouldn't apply for DDR5 as well.

I imagine it works like an electrical fuse tripping. If the power is too high, it just goes nope.


----------



## Ichirou

affxct said:


> How cold do you usually run your stuff?


My 12900KF isn't delidded yet, so it's not in its optimal state.
Maximum that this 1260+1080 radiator waterloop can handle is up to around 1.38V Vcore before I start hitting 100C on some cores. That's around ~320W on load.

However, that's with y-cruncher component stress test temps. Not the much more sane tests like R23, which I can test up to ~1.45V just fine.
On idle or low loads, the CPU sits in the 20C range.

The RAM is under water, and I haven't put the GPU into the loop yet since I'm still using it in my secondary machine.


----------



## affxct

Ichirou said:


> DDR4 and DDR5 VDDQ might differ. That detail is accurate for DDR4 only.
> However, since the FIVR rail would trip long before any damage is done, I don't see why it shouldn't apply for DDR5 as well.
> 
> I imagine it works like an electrical fuse tripping. If the power is too high, it just goes nope.


AFAIK the IMCs on ADL are the exact same IMCs and the only difference is that with D4, each IMC only talks to one of the channels, and with D5 the IMCs can address the D5 sub-channels and there's interleaving. TX should be the exact same rail, but with D4 the value is never quite as high as with D5, just as how with D5, you don't need tons of SA until you get to D5-7400+. The VDD2 voltage on D5 boards comes from the board itself anyway and is just used to boost signal I think.


----------



## Ichirou

affxct said:


> AFAIK the IMCs on ADL are the exact same IMCs and the only difference is that with D4, each IMC only talks to one of the channels, and with D5 the IMCs can address the D5 sub-channels and there's interleaving. TX should be the exact same rail, but with D4 the value is never quite as high as with D5, just as how with D5, you don't need tons of SA until you get to D5-7400+. The VDD2 voltage on D5 boards comes from the board itself anyway and is just used to boost signal I think.


They're not the same IMCs. Igor's Lab debunked that. They're two different IMCs altogether.
If you have a good DDR4 IMC, you might not have a good DDR5 one, and vice versa. And they don't necessarily scale with CPU P-core quality either.
That's why some hardcore binners opt to keep weaker P-core chips because their IMCs are stronger.

VCCSA on Gear 2 even on DDR4 tends to stay pretty low until you get around 4,600-4,800 MHz or more. It's still higher than DDR5, though.


----------



## affxct

Ichirou said:


> They're not the same IMCs. Igor's Lab debunked that. They're two different IMCs altogether.
> If you have a good DDR4 IMC, you might not have a good DDR5 one, and vice versa. And they don't necessarily scale with CPU P-core quality either.
> That's why some hardcore binners opt to keep weaker P-core chips because their IMCs are stronger.
> 
> VCCSA on Gear 2 even on DDR4 tends to stay pretty low until you get around 4,600-4,800 MHz or more. It's still higher than DDR5, though.


So here's the thing. The performance with D5 and D4 aren't comparable, yes. But they didn't necessarily show any evidence of there being two different memory technology subsystems on the chip. I also just don't think it's likely. ADL already uses a dual IMC approach. So what? They put four different IMCs on a single package with two TX rails and two uncore rails? I mean if the performance is measured with SA and TX scaling for data rates then logically that means that there should be two of each?

I think more than likely the two memory controllers address both memory technologies and the reason that you can't assume a chip will do well in both is because of stuff like cache quality and the stress that the cache rail puts on uncore affecting how high you need to run uncore to clock the IMC higher. With TX it could be down to other factors. I don't think there are two different IMCs for D4 and D5 though, I genuinely don't think Intel would've made the effort to support D4 if that's what it would've taken.

The reason it's easy and cheap for them to do is because they only need one group of IMC transistors that can address the two different memory technologies in such a nifty way that kinda eliminates the issue. Then there's VDD2 to just help signal integrity with D5. I think this is partially why AMD ditched D4 support. They probably just couldn't find a way to implement it like Intel has.

ADL definitely has two different memory controllers, but both D4 and D5 use both. One for channel A and one for channel B. I think the TX scaling and SA scaling are just due to other factors and that's why the results are not symmetrical.


----------



## david12900k

Ichirou said:


> Definitely sounds like a similar situation to mine. Naturally, 1.380V isn't much, but when you're hammering the chip with that voltage at 95-100C, that's going to exacerbate the problem.
> These thinner 7nm processes are clearly not as durable as their former 14nm thicker ones.


Is it possible your ambient temps have gone up and reduced your cooling ability? Chips can run at lower voltage if they are cooled more


----------



## affxct

david12900k said:


> Is it possible your ambient temps have gone up and reduced your cooling ability? Chips can run at lower voltage if they are cooled more


Knowing him he's defs considered it. It is what it is, chip degraded and that's that. We should all learn from it.


----------



## Ichirou

david12900k said:


> Is it possible your ambient temps have gone up and reduced your cooling ability? Chips can run at lower voltage if they are cooled more


Ambient's still more or less the same, and I was retesting 1.360V in the night. Chip's definitely degraded.
It might be why the 12900KS is locked to (IIRC) 95C Tjmax instead of the 12900K/KF's 100C Tjmax, by default. Intel might've noticed degradation during internal testing.


----------



## Nizzen

affxct said:


> How cold do you usually run your stuff?


Direct die and 30c water.


----------



## affxct

Nizzen said:


> Direct die and 30c water.


Ahh that makes sense. That definitely helps with longevity running high voltages.


----------



## z390e

ignore, missed later posts


----------



## Ichirou

Just reporting that my chip degraded again and raised the Vcore requirement to 1.370V after only a handful of y-cruncher runs yesterday. (Previously 1.365V, increased from 1.360V.)
This is getting pretty scary, NGL. Definitely not going to run y-cruncher much, if at all, anymore.


----------



## chentj1988

Ichirou said:


> Just reporting that my chip degraded again and raised the Vcore requirement to 1.370V after only a handful of y-cruncher runs yesterday. (Previously 1.365V, increased from 1.360V.)
> This is getting pretty scary, NGL. Definitely not going to run y-cruncher much, if at all, anymore.


To Be honest I have the same issue with my first 12900k too. The chip had been degraded by 100mhz at the same voltage, I sold it and get myself a better pre-binned one. I think it’s good idea to keep the cpu running below 1.3v and 85C under load.


----------



## Nizzen

Ichirou said:


> Just reporting that my chip degraded again and raised the Vcore requirement to 1.370V after only a handful of y-cruncher runs yesterday. (Previously 1.365V, increased from 1.360V.)
> This is getting pretty scary, NGL. Definitely not going to run y-cruncher much, if at all, anymore.


I play games with 12900k. 
Abusing threadripper with everything else


----------



## JSHamlet234

Ichirou said:


> Ambient's still more or less the same, and I was retesting 1.360V in the night. Chip's definitely degraded.
> It might be why the 12900KS is locked to (IIRC) 95C Tjmax instead of the 12900K/KF's 100C Tjmax, by default. Intel might've noticed degradation during internal testing.


Well, none of this should be news to anyone. Degradation is caused by high current + high voltage + high temperature. 100C on something like a laptop CPU is probably OK because the electrical limits are so low. On a desktop CPU that's guzzling down current, I would not want to be anywhere near 100C or even 95C for very long. There's always a chance for new technology to change things, but as you've confirmed, that is not the case here.


----------



## Ichirou

chentj1988 said:


> To Be honest I have the same issue with my first 12900k too. The chip had been degraded by 100mhz at the same voltage, I sold it and get myself a better pre-binned one. I think it’s good idea to keep the cpu running below 1.3v and 85C under load.





JSHamlet234 said:


> Well, none of this should be news to anyone. Degradation is caused by high current + high voltage + high temperature. 100C on something like a laptop CPU is probably OK because the electrical limits are so low. On a desktop CPU that's guzzling down current, I would not want to be anywhere near 100C or even 95C for very long. There's always a chance for new technology to change things, but as you've confirmed, that is not the case here.


Yeah, I'm certainly discovering this for myself. This 7nm process is not at all friendly with overly high temps.
I'd recommend people to stay below 80-85C at the very most, and under 1.30-1.35V max for this generation. And don't hammer the chip with 90C+ stress tests.
y-cruncher's main test should be enough for daily stability for most people, while staying under sane temperatures.


----------



## affxct

Ichirou said:


> Yeah, I'm certainly discovering this for myself. This 7nm process is not at all friendly with overly high temps.
> I'd recommend people to stay below 80-85C at the very most, and under 1.30-1.35V max for this generation. And don't hammer the chip with 90C+ stress tests.
> y-cruncher's main test should be enough for daily stability for most people, while staying under sane temperatures.


It's a really good 10nm. It's probably not as sensitive as TSMC N7.


----------



## Groove2013

affxct said:


> AFAIK the IMCs on ADL are the exact same IMCs and the only difference is that with D4, each IMC only talks to one of the channels, and with D5 the IMCs can address the D5 sub-channels and there's interleaving. TX should be the exact same rail, but with D4 the value is never quite as high as with D5, just as how with D5, you don't need tons of SA until you get to D5-7400+. The VDD2 voltage on D5 boards comes from the board itself anyway and is just used to boost signal I think.





affxct said:


> So here's the thing. The performance with D5 and D4 aren't comparable, yes. But they didn't necessarily show any evidence of there being two different memory technology subsystems on the chip. I also just don't think it's likely. ADL already uses a dual IMC approach. So what? They put four different IMCs on a single package with two TX rails and two uncore rails? I mean if the performance is measured with SA and TX scaling for data rates then logically that means that there should be two of each?
> 
> I think more than likely the two memory controllers address both memory technologies and the reason that you can't assume a chip will do well in both is because of stuff like cache quality and the stress that the cache rail puts on uncore affecting how high you need to run uncore to clock the IMC higher. With TX it could be down to other factors. I don't think there are two different IMCs for D4 and D5 though, I genuinely don't think Intel would've made the effort to support D4 if that's what it would've taken.
> 
> The reason it's easy and cheap for them to do is because they only need one group of IMC transistors that can address the two different memory technologies in such a nifty way that kinda eliminates the issue. Then there's VDD2 to just help signal integrity with D5. I think this is partially why AMD ditched D4 support. They probably just couldn't find a way to implement it like Intel has.
> 
> ADL definitely has two different memory controllers, but both D4 and D5 use both. One for channel A and one for channel B. I think the TX scaling and SA scaling are just due to other factors and that's why the results are not symmetrical.


you were actually right man!
Alder Lake doesn't have 2 different memory controllers, one for DDR4 and one for DDR5.

Here is a screen of the BIOS of my Asus Strix Z690 D4 (DDR4) and as one can see, it says controller 0, for 1st memory channel and controller 1, for 2nd memory channel.

so yes, there are 2 memory controllers, but both can do DDR4 and DDR5.

just that each memory channel uses one memory controller.
@Esenel @Ichirou @bscool @IronAge @Raphie @snakeeyes111 @TurricanM3 @dante`afk @PhoenixMDA


----------



## affxct

Groove2013 said:


> you were actually right man!
> Alder Lake doesn't have 2 different memory controllers, one for DDR4 and one for DDR5.
> 
> Here is a screen of the BIOS if my Asus Strix Z690 D4 (DDR4) and as one can see, it says controller 0, for 1st memory channel and controller 1, for 2nd memory channel.
> 
> so yes, there are 2 memory controllers, but both can do DDR4 and DDR5.
> 
> just that each memory channel uses ine memory controller.
> @Ichirou @bscool @IronAge @Raphie


I find it properstrous that you guys think Intel would've given us two whole memory controllers for free. Come on now guys, this is Intel we're talking about XD. They would've sold a 12900K D4, a 12900K D5, and a 12900K+ .


----------



## snakeeyes111

Groove2013 said:


> just that each memory channel uses one memory controller.


Both Controller use both dimms. Its Not Controller 1 for dimm a and 2 for dimm b 😉


----------



## affxct

snakeeyes111 said:


> Both Controller use both dimms. Its Not Controller 1 for dimm a and 2 for dimm b 😉


The important take-away is that the two memory controllers are used for both D4 and D5, and they're the only two controllers present on within the silicon.


----------



## jomama22

This has been known since launch. Not sure why it's a surprise to anyone:


----------



## jomama22

affxct said:


> It's a really good 10nm. It's probably not as sensitive as TSMC N7.


This is just not true at all. There is a reason Ryzen can, at stock, pull up to 1.5v on the core...


----------



## affxct

jomama22 said:


> This is just not true at all. There is a reason Ryzen can, at stock, pull up to 1.5v on the core...


XD I'm pretty sure if you ran an ADL core up to 1.5V it'd do just fine. However, you ever speak to someone who let's their Ryzen chip go up to 1.5V with an older AGESA and see how their silicon is doing after 2 years? I spoke to a dude who's friend's 3600X degraded after like a year of running at PBO. It apparently degraded by like 50-100mV. I think it might've actually been 100. I was on a 5950X for a short while a month ago and even with a really decent PBO CO setup, that chip was not going above 1.45V even with 1 core active. 

AMD updated the boost table for good reason. The same person I mentioned earlier explained something to me and it made a lot of sense. If you look at AMD's marketing and their site, all of their products display an "up to" boost value, but the only value guaranteed is base clock, whereas Intel's boost values are specifically 5.2 for a single core on a 12900K with TVB, and 4.9 all-core under heavy load.

There are probably a lot of 2-3 year old Zen 2/3 chips that are boosting 50-100MHz lower than they were initially.


----------



## jomama22

affxct said:


> XD I'm pretty sure if you ran an ADL core up to 1.5V it'd do just fine. However, you ever speak to someone who let's their Ryzen chip go up to 1.5V with an older AGESA and see how their silicon is doing after 2 years? I spoke to a dude who's friend's 3600X degraded after like a year of running at PBO. It apparently degraded by like 50-100mV. I think it might've actually been 100. I was on a 5950X for a short while a month ago and even with a really decent PBO CO setup, that chip was not going above 1.45V even with 1 core active.
> 
> AMD updated the boost table for good reason. The same person I mentioned earlier explained something to me and it made a lot of sense. If you look at AMD's marketing and their site, all of their products display an "up to" boost value, but the only value guaranteed is base clock, whereas Intel's boost values are specifically 5.2 for a single core on a 12900K with TVB, and 4.9 all-core under heavy load.
> 
> There are probably a lot of 2-3 year old Zen 2/3 chips that are boosting 50-100MHz lower than they were initially.


I mean, you can literally watch debauer's video on it. Running 1.45v for a year straight looping tse CPU bench(go to the results to hear it from him, 5800x:0mv degredation, 5600x's: 20mv and 40mv):






Or you can take my word of using a 5950x for a year with pbo, running over 1.5v at times, and having no discernable degredation, and I very much beat the crap out of that CPU (ran well over 1.55v with pbo).

My entire point is that TSMC N7 isn't sensitive and isn't somehow worse than Intel. I said nothing of Intel at all.


----------



## affxct

jomama22 said:


> I mean, you can literally watch debauer's video on it. Running 1.45v for a year straight looping tse CPU bench(go to the results to hear it from him, 5800x:0mv degredation, 5600x's: 20mv and 40mv):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or you can take my word of using a 5950x for a year with pbo, running over 1.5v at times, and having no discernable degredation, and I very much beat the crap out of that CPU (ran well over 1.55v with pbo).
> 
> My entire point is that TSMC N7 isn't sensitive and isn't somehow worse than Intel. I said nothing of Intel at all.


Eh you didn't read my reply XD. The boost table has changed and I already know of a chip that degraded at PBO. The Der8auer results are interesting, but idk what LLC he used. That would be a fairly big factor. He never informed us of what the actual load voltage was. Do not for one second tell me that an air cooler can cool a 1.45 load AVX 5800X XD.


----------



## jomama22

affxct said:


> Eh you didn't read my reply XD. The boost table has changed and I already know of a chip that degraded at PBO. The Der8auer results are interesting, but idk what LLC he used. That would be a fairly big factor. He never informed us of what the actual load voltage was. Do not for one second tell me that an air cooler can cool a 1.45 load AVX 5800X XD.


Watch the video. It's is 1.45v get. You can literally see it in hwinfo.




He also has a video on the setup itself from when he started it.

Sorry, but I'll trust his judgement more than yours.


----------



## affxct

jomama22 said:


> Watch the video. It's is 1.45v get. You can literally see it in hwinfo.
> 
> He also has a video on the setup itself from when he started it.
> 
> Sorry, but I'll trust his judgement more than yours.


An air cooler can cool a 5800X with a 1.45V AVX load Vcore? 🤔

I have a simple question. Would you or do you know of anyone that has feasibly run a 5950X with a 1.3V load AVX Vcore for a daily? Last year I had some settings on a 5900X that weren't even near as aggressive as that, and I got screamed at by like 10 different Ryzen dudes on a different forum. Even setting 1.35V on Ryzen is shunned because of how many random people have reported degradation.

I'm not going to convince you and you're not going to convince me. What I'm saying is not exactly dissimilar to what the concensus online is. Sometimes the concensus is true because it materializes in practice whether there are those who try to disprove it or not. However, 1.45V AVX load Vcore on a 5800X would run extremely hot and I really don't know how an air cooler could handle that - genuinly. I seriously doubt that can be accurate.

Other than that the boost table thing isn't made up. I was planning on downgrading from ADL and I picked up some Zen stuff for dirt cheap. I updated the board I had to the latest AGESA because I read of some bugs dudes were struggling with on some earlier versions. I noticed my chip was cutting off its own boosts at 1.45 and on the forum for X570 Master owners, it was mentioned by a few users that the boost table has been slashed. It's _not_ totally clear why that is, but it's kinda curious, don't you think?


----------



## jomama22

affxct said:


> An air cooler can cool a 5800X with a 1.45V AVX load Vcore? 🤔
> 
> I have a simple question. Would you or do you know of anyone that has feasibly run a 5950X with a 1.3V load AVX Vcore for a daily? Last year I had some settings on a 5900X that weren't even near as aggressive as that, and I got screamed at by like 10 different Ryzen dudes on a different forum. Even setting 1.35V on Ryzen is shunned because of how many random people have reported degradation.
> 
> I'm not going to convince you and you're not going to convince me. What I'm saying is not exactly dissimilar to what the concensus online is. Sometimes the concensus is true because it materializes in practice whether there are those who try to disprove it or not. However, 1.45V AVX load Vcore on a 5800X would run extremely hot and I really don't know how an air cooler could handle that - genuinly. I seriously doubt that can be accurate.


You clearly didn't watch the videos not read what I wrote. Just actually watch them.

It ran on a loop for 1 year use tse (time spy extreme) with a load voltage of 1.45v.

The cinebench tests are the baseline readings of the chips for what clock/voltage it will run at.

Degredation is checked by running cinebench after 1 year given the same clocks/voltage as before the tests.

That's it.

No one said anything about running 1.45v in cinebench.

Also, different chips will degrade differently, that is a known fact. Different internal resistance, causing higher temps, will increase this degredation.


----------



## affxct

jomama22 said:


> You clearly didn't watch the videos. Just actually watch them nor did you even read what I wrote.
> 
> It ran on a loop for 1 year use tse (time spy extreme) with a load voltage of 1.45v.
> 
> The cinebench tests are the baseline readings of the chips for what clock/voltage it will run at.
> 
> Degredation is checked by running cinebench after 1 year given the same clocks/voltage as before the tests.
> 
> That's it.
> 
> No one said anything about running 1.45v in cinebench.


I watched it on launch last year because I was still daily'ing Zen. Ok with regards to your last statement fair enough, but that's what I initially implied i.e., I said that 1.45V wasn't the AVX load (Cine) voltage and that we don't know what the LLC was. AVX loads are the only ones that generally intimate electromigration. Low current loads are kinda a nothing burger.

Let's be totally clear on this. Ichirou's chip degraded between 1.365-1.38V (as reported by him) in y-cruncher stress test, one of the heaviest AVX loads one can run. Most forum users including myself utilize this test as well, but with more reasonable AVX Vcore ("get") figures of around 1.2-1.3 (socket sense), as well as Linpack, IBT V2 and P95.

Most users stress test socket sense value load AVX Vcore figures of 1.2-1.3 depending on how aggro they want to go for their daily. 1.3V socket sense load Vcore is doable on a 360 (barely), more so on a 420, and easily on a good custom loop (not going to pretend like I know what constitutes a good loop, but let's just assume it's affective). Overall though, unless your chip is constantly going well over 95c and you have a crappy sample, there's no way you're degrading at 1.3V load heavy AVX Vcore, like no effing way on a 12900K.

Up to I'd say even 1.35 AVX load Vcore in something like LinX, P95, y-cruncher, or IBT V2 can be done on ADL if temps are managed (sub 90c). At 1.35V AVX load Vcore ADL-S chips begin to destabilize thus you won't make any OC headway above 90c anyway (reported on the AHOC Discord early into ADL's lifespan), so if you couldn't cool it safely at that high of a Vcore, you were likely to heat crash anyway, but in the case of Ichirou, sometimes the heat crash doesn't come early enough and you end up eating some degradation due to electromigration.

Ok, I don't have evidence of which lithography has more resistance to oxide breakdown, and I'm not an expert on silicon and electrical traces so idk, maybe Zen chips were optimized for 1.55V Vcore spikes 🤷‍♂️, but I sure as hell do not hear of many dudes running the AVX stress tests I mentioned above on the 5900X and 5950X at Vcore figures we do, and safely at that.

1.225 die sense/1.3 socket sense load AVX Vcore, on the 12900K however, is very safe. I myself have run hours of IBT V2 at up to 110c (not recommended) on my 12900K with a cap of 1.3V socket sense load AVX Vcore with 0 degradation whatsoever (unsurpsingly). I ate around 5-10mV later on because I was a dufus and tried to force my crappy SP 81 chip to 5.1GHz @ 1.35V load AVX Vcore on the bad 360 AIO I had at the time. If I was on a loop with sub 90c temps then it very likely would've been totally fine. A bunch of dudes with highly binned 12900Ks and KSs have been running around 1.35V load Vcore in R23 with adequate cooling without much issue. I'm not sure if that sentiment can be echoed by 5950X users (not to say that it's necessarily a good thing that 12th gen chips can run this high).

If you're talking about stuff like gaming and 3DMark, come on now dude. You could legit run a 12900K at 1.5V in games and benchmarks if the temps are in the 50s and 60s.

Lastly I would like to say that I did read everything you wrote. It would be kinda hard to argue with you if I hadn't . I mean how would I even have known you were talking about Der8auer or the fact that he tested a 5800X XD. I did however know he tested one 5800X, two 5600Xs, on three Strix B550-F samples that were sponsored by Asus, he used Corsair MP510s, and he used Noctua air coolers for longevity reasons (he said he didn't want one of the AIOs to die).


----------



## affxct

@jomama22
"It's a really good 10nm. It's probably not as sensitive as TSMC N7."

This is all I said initially, not that N7 is somehow prone to degradation or anything like that. I'm not even sure what the contrast is between the two nodes or which is more durable. All I do know is that ADL-S under heavy AVX stress tests can be run fairly high fairly safely, whereas most Zen users tend to to have to stay well below the figures we do, and for that reason I made my statement.

If you can provide a screenshot of your 5950X running y-cruncher stress test with all the heavy AVX tests enabled, running at 1.365-1.38V load Vcore at a reasonably high all-core frequency (not like 3GHz or something silly), and handling it better than Ichirou's chip - you'll have proven me completely wrong. To make it fair, feel free to disable two of your worst cores perhaps. I feel like that's somewhat reasonable. By that point it will be true that N7 is more durable than Intel 7.

Update: Scratch that disable two core thing. I reckon disable 8 whole cores and make it an 8 core. Also socket sense ey. Die sense 1.365 would be unreal XD. Defs don't do that.


----------



## david12900k

Rockit Cool Delid Service Review:
I decided to send my 12900KS (SP 98, P-SP: 105, E-SP: 85) to Rockit Cool to have them delid it and apply liquid metal. Since I have the Thermal Grizzly Contact Frame, the Rockit Cool Copper IHS will not work, so I had them re apply the stock IHS.
I sent it out on Tuesday and they received it on Thursday. They sent it out on Friday and I got it on Monday. So from send to receive was 6 days (I had to use my 8700k computer for gaming that week)

Before the delid, I was running 54/43/44 P/E/Ring and at 54 all core, I was on 1.217 vcore under load @ 84c max package temp over 30 minutes (21c ambients) with full loop.
After I got it delidded, I put it back in and loaded up the exact same settings as before the delid and got a max of 72c on the package (12c less!)

Trying for 5.5 GHz all core. Before the delid, I could NOT get 5.5 GHz to work at all. I tried everything. After the delid, I am able to get 3x30 mins runs of Cinebench R23 with 5.5 GHz @ 1.296v (and i am still in the process of finding the minimum voltage for 5.5 @ LLC7). I suspect I can go lower probably down to 1.28v but I am still dialing things in. After that, i will lower LLC and go lower.

Just for fun, I went into Battlefield 2042 and was getting max of 46 c on the p cores during the game, which I know battlefield isnt cpu intensive, but its still funny to watch 5.5 all core in gaming under 50c. I am hopeful I can get 5.7 all core in gaming loads with OCTVB

Anyways, 100% I would recommend the Rockit Cool Delid Service if you want that 100-200MHz bump in performance and colder temps


----------



## affxct

david12900k said:


> Rockit Cool Delid Service Review:
> I decided to send my 12900KS (SP 98, P-SP: 105, E-SP: 85) to Rockit Cool to have them delid it and apply liquid metal. Since I have the Thermal Grizzly Contact Frame, the Rockit Cool Copper IHS will not work, so I had them re apply the stock IHS.
> I sent it out on Tuesday and they received it on Thursday. They sent it out on Friday and I got it on Monday. So from send to receive was 6 days (I had to use my 8700k computer for gaming that week)
> 
> Before the delid, I was running 54/43/44 P/E/Ring and at 54 all core, I was on 1.217 vcore under load @ 84c max package temp over 30 minutes (21c ambients) with full loop.
> After I got it delidded, I put it back in and loaded up the exact same settings as before the delid and got a max of 72c on the package (12c less!)
> 
> Trying for 5.5 GHz all core. Before the delid, I could NOT get 5.5 GHz to work at all. I tried everything. After the delid, I am able to get 3x30 mins runs of Cinebench R23 with 5.5 GHz @ 1.296v (and i am still in the process of finding the minimum voltage for 5.5 @ LLC7). I suspect I can go lower probably down to 1.28v but I am still dialing things in. After that, i will lower LLC and go lower.
> 
> Just for fun, I went into Battlefield 2042 and was getting max of 46 c on the p cores during the game, which I know battlefield isnt cpu intensive, but its still funny to watch 5.5 all core in gaming under 50c. I am hopeful I can get 5.7 all core in gaming loads with OCTVB
> 
> Anyways, 100% I would recommend the Rockit Cool Delid Service if you want that 100-200MHz bump in performance and colder temps


Wait, the stock IHS with the contact frame is cooling better than the copper IHS did by itself? 🤔


----------



## david12900k

affxct said:


> Wait, the stock IHS with the contact frame is cooling better than the copper IHS did by itself? 🤔


I did not say that.
The Delid service offered by Rockit Cool comes with the Delid, application of liquid metal (or what ever TIM), and then re-lid with the Rockit Cool Copper IHS. I already was using the Thermal Grizzly Contact frame, and Rockit Cool informed me that their Copper IHS was not compatible with the Contact Frame. I saw benchmarks online that the Copper IHS was only 1 c cooler than the stock IHS once delidded (frame chasers on youtube), so I elected to keep the stock IHS so I could keep using my Thermal Grizzly Contact Frame. I have never installed the Copper IHS onto my CPU

I did not test with Delidded + Copper IHS


----------



## affxct

david12900k said:


> I did not say that.
> The Delid service offered by Rockit Cool comes with the Delid, application of liquid metal (or what ever TIM), and then re-lid with the Rockit Cool Copper IHS. I already was using the Thermal Grizzly Contact frame, and Rockit Cool informed me that their Copper IHS was not compatible with the Contact Frame. I saw benchmarks online that the Copper IHS was only 1 c cooler than the stock IHS once delidded (frame chasers on youtube), so I elected to keep the stock IHS so I could keep using my Thermal Grizzly Contact Frame. I have never installed the Copper IHS onto my CPU
> 
> I did not test with Delidded + Copper IHS


Ahhhh. Never mind, I thought you had the copper IHS initially.


----------



## domdtxdissar

affxct said:


> I'm not going to convince you and you're not going to convince me. What I'm saying is not exactly dissimilar to what the concensus online is. Sometimes the concensus is true because it materializes in practice whether there are those who try to disprove it or not. However, 1.45V AVX load Vcore on a 5800X would run extremely hot and I really don't know how an air cooler could handle that - genuinly. I seriously doubt that can be accurate.


And the same people will tell you that you should not run ddr4 b-die memory above 1500mv. Sometimes the "consensus online" dont mean jackshit..
Even my stock gskill d4 dualrank memory run at 1.55v stock, and i have been running my bdie way over that for years without any degradation. (cooling is the important word here)



affxct said:


> This is all I said initially, not that N7 is somehow prone to degradation or anything like that. I'm not even sure what the contrast is between the two nodes or which is more durable. All I do know is that ADL-S under heavy AVX stress tests can be run fairly high fairly safely, whereas most Zen users tend to to have to stay well below the figures we do, and for that reason I made my statement.
> 
> If you can provide a screenshot of your 5950X running y-cruncher stress test with all the heavy AVX tests enabled, running at 1.365-1.38V load Vcore at a reasonably high all-core frequency (not like 3GHz or something silly), and handling it better than Ichirou's chip - you'll have proven me completely wrong. To make it fair, feel free to disable two of your worst cores perhaps. I feel like that's somewhat reasonable. By that point it will be true that N7 is more durable than Intel 7.


i realize its not me you asked, but i have been running multiple zen cpus very hard over the years without any detectable degradation
Here is a example where i'm running y-cruncher and linpack xtreme at 340-350watt on my 5950x without problems.(cooled by custom watercooling)













If i dig around in my screenhot-folders i can find pictures of me running multiple different stress-tests such as y-cruncher all tests, OCCT and prime95 with and without avx for over 300w, for over 1 hour durations.

The reason people on reddit dont (should not) run above ~1300mv (static oc) on their Zen3 cpus is because they cant cool it with their 50$ air cooler.. Just like with Alder Lake, Zen3 is very temperature dependent and you get a regression on stable clockspeed with too high vcore/temps. (the limit is actually only 70degrees when running stock PBO before fit limits starts to be enforced)

Both Alder Lake and Zen3 are what we enthusiasts on this forum call "overvolted" as there no point to run too high vcore when you cant cool it and/or are PPT limited anyway.. Actually only ~1350mv get- is needed for ~5ghz on single core on a semi-light load, with a good zen sample, and thats why the cpu boosting mechanics got changed on the later agesa's. (above 1.2.0.3). Average Joe with bad/normal cooling get higher average sustained clocks with the newer AMD agesa's. (limited to 1425mv max above 140 edc)

Not to be rude, but Ichirou's opinion on this matter dont mean much in this regard when we have both the scientific tests results from derbauer, and my own and others experiences actally overclocking and using Zen3 cpu's.


----------



## affxct

domdtxdissar said:


> And the same people will tell you that you should not run ddr4 b-die memory above 1500mv. Sometimes the "consensus online" dont mean jackshit..
> Even my stock gskill d4 dualrank memory run at 1.55v stock, and i have been running my bdie way over that for years without any degradation. (cooling is the important word here)
> 
> 
> i realize its not me you asked, but i have been running multiple zen cpus very hard over the years without any detectable degradation
> Here is a example where i'm running y-cruncher and linpack xtreme at 340-350watt on my 5950x without problems.(cooled by custom watercooling)
> View attachment 2565472
> View attachment 2565473
> 
> If i dig around in my screenhot-folders i can find pictures of me running multiple different stress-tests such as y-cruncher all tests, OCCT and prime95 with and without avx for over 300w, for over 1 hour durations.
> 
> The reason people on reddit dont (should not) run above ~1300mv (static oc) on their Zen3 cpus is because they cant cool it with their 50$ air cooler.. Just like with Alder Lake, Zen3 is very temperature dependent and you get a regression on stable clockspeed with too high vcore/temps. (the limit is actually only 70degrees when running stock PBO before fit limits starts to be enforced)
> 
> Both Alder Lake and Zen3 are what we enthusiasts on this forum call "overvolted" as there no point to run too high vcore when you cant cool it and/or are PPT limited anyway.. Actually only ~1350mv get- is needed for ~5ghz on single core on a semi-light load, with a good zen sample, and thats why the cpu boosting mechanics got changed on the later agesa's. (above 1.2.0.3). Average Joe with bad/normal cooling get higher average sustained clocks with the newer AMD agesa's. (limited to 1425mv max above 140 edc)
> 
> Not to be rude, but Ichirou's opinion on this matter dont mean much in this regard when we have both the scientific tests results from derbauer, and my own and others experiences actally overclocking and using Zen3 cpu's.


These two screenshots do not show y-cruncher stress test running with a 1.365+ load Vcore. I don't mean to be rude, but that's kinda the challenge I laid out (8 cores only is fine). Most of what you said is totally fine and I agree that a decent chip probably doesn't need more than 1.35 to boost to 5GHz. My point is still that N7 is probably a little bit less durable than Intel 7. That was my initial comment that sparked all the outrage - no more, no less. Until someone puts up a screenshot of a 5800X (trying to be lenient here because a lot of dudes disable E-cores), operating at 1.365+ load voltage in y-cruncher stress test, I'm not really convinced of anything.

On the basis simply that everything Der8auer did in that video is doable on any and every 12900K sample. CB R20 was not running at 1.45V load AVX socket sense (or die sense) Vcore on air, there's just no way and I'm not hearing it - it also seems as though that other dude went back on this and said apparently the AVX Vcore at load wasn't 1.45, which is good and fair. With all due respect though, I don't care what this whole 'get' terminology is or what you type in in BIOS. It just doesn't really clarify enough. Whatever the load Vcore on your sensor readout is during the brunt of the AVX workload is - that's where the damage happens.

Ichirou's 12900K got taken out in y-cruncher stress test at 1.365-1.38 (different tests) load AVX Vcore and idk the test probably ran for an hour or something. A LinX running at 1.35V load Vcore (while the test is going, 1.35 shows in the sensor of VR Out) will suffice. Guys I made a very innocent comment and I didn't say the difference was drastic or that Intel 7 is much less degradable. I got blasted for it and now I have to either risk my stance or blindly agree. If someone can show their Zen 3 chip running at those values listed above then I'll fully concede that I was wrong about Zen 3 degradation and safe voltages. Maybe I am wrong, and I certainly hope I am.

I would absolutely love love love to see a 5900X or 5950X doing LinX calculations or y-cruncher BKT with 1.35V in the real-time V OUT sensor. Like it would genuinely make my day because I honestly can't fathom it. Not going to mention just yet what I used to daily and what my findings were because I sincerely want you guys to prove me wrong. It would honestly be so freakin' cool.

With all this said, if you already know you can't run y-cruncher stress test or LinX with 1.365+ on the VR out sensor safely, then please do not attempt it. The reason why I am using this value is because if the new info brought to the fore is accurate, then a value that Intel 7 clearly could not sustain should at least be runnable on TSMC N7 safely for at least a few 10s of minutes. I feel like that's not an utterly crazy thing to say.

I'm just confused that Zen users aren't aware that when 12th gen users run 3DMark we often go up to 1.5V set (before Vdroop), and certain auto OC algos like ROG AI Tuner and Intel IABT auto-overvolt us well above 1.45V during actual loads. ROG AI tuner thought my first 12900K could do 5.4G in COD Vang at some ludicrous voltage. I've never seen my chip peg 90c in a video game before that.

PS: Please no one be that guy that starts running these Zen tests with some sort of exotic cooling. A reasonable custom loop is fine, although I think Ichirou uses a 420 and his i9 probs would've enjoyed a little bit more cooling in the situation.


----------



## domdtxdissar

affxct said:


> These two screenshots do not show y-cruncher stress test running with a 1.365+ load Vcore. I don't mean to be rude, but that's kinda the challenge I laid out (8 cores only is fine). Most of what you said is totally fine and I agree that a decent chip probably doesn't need more than 1.35 to boost to 5GHz. My point is still that N7 is probably a little bit less durable than Intel 7. That was my initial comment that sparked all the outrage - no more, no less. Until someone puts up a screenshot of a 5800X (trying to be lenient here because a lot of dudes disable E-cores), operating at 1.365+ load voltage in y-cruncher stress test, I'm not really convinced of anything.
> 
> On the basis simply that everything Der8auer did in that video is doable on any and every 12900K sample. CB R20 was not running at 1.45V load AVX socket sense (or die sense) Vcore on air, there's just no way and I'm not hearing it - it also seems as though that other dude went back on this and said apparently the AVX Vcore at load wasn't 1.45, which is good and fair. With all due respect though, I don't care what this whole 'get' terminology is or what you type in in BIOS. It just doesn't really clarify enough. Whatever the load Vcore on your sensor readout is during the brunt of the AVX workload is - that's where the damage happens.
> 
> Ichirou's 12900K got taken out in y-cruncher stress test at 1.365-1.38 (different tests) load AVX Vcore and idk the test probably ran for an hour or something. A LinX running at 1.35V load Vcore (while the test is going, 1.35 shows in the sensor of VR Out) will suffice. Guys I made a very innocent comment and I didn't say the difference was drastic or that Intel 7 is much less degradable. I got blasted for it and now I have to either risk my stance or blindly agree. If someone can show their Zen 3 chip running at those values listed above then I'll fully concede that I was wrong about Zen 3 degradation and safe voltages. Maybe I am wrong, and I certainly hope I am.
> 
> I would absolutely love love love to see a 5900X or 5950X doing LinX calculations or y-cruncher BKT with 1.35V in the real-time V OUT sensor. Like it would genuinely make my day because I honestly can't fathom it. Not going to mention just yet what I used to daily and what my findings were because I sincerely want you guys to prove me wrong. It would honestly be so freakin' cool.
> 
> With all this said, if you already know you can't run y-cruncher stress test or LinX with 1.365+ on the VR out sensor safely, then please do not attempt it. The reason why I am using this value is because if the new info brought to the fore is accurate, then a value that Intel 7 clearly could not sustain should at least be runnable on TSMC N7 safely for at least a few 10s of minutes. I feel like that's not an utterly crazy thing to say.
> 
> I'm just confused that Zen users aren't aware that when 12th gen users run 3DMark we often go up to 1.5V set (before Vdroop), and certain auto OC algos like ROG AI Tuner and Intel IABT auto-overvolt us well above 1.45V during actual loads. ROG AI tuner thought my first 12900K could do 5.4G in COD Vang at some ludicrous voltage. I've never seen my chip peg 90c in a video game before that.
> 
> PS: do not be that guy and start running these Zen tests with some sort of exotic cooling - a reasonable custom loop is fine, although I think Ichirou uses a 420 and his i9 probs would've enjoyed a little bit more cooling in the situation.


Ill run it when i get home from work in 6 hours.


----------



## affxct

domdtxdissar said:


> Ill run it when i get home from work in 6 hours.


Sorted then. Just to confirm:

y-cruncher component stress tester/LinX
1.365V+ in your board's most accurate VRM Vcore output sensor while the workload is at full blast
Running at a respectable all-core clock speed deserving of the Vcore value, so as to not fudge the results 
No exotic cooling
8 cores/16 threads (or more)
No weird power limiting features enabled that we'd never use for OCing
I don't want to waste your time or effort so I just have to restate the conditions. But yeah I'd honestly love to see it. I didn't think it could be done and if you can set the record straight it would be kinda awesome.

I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but to produce those results you'd have to either max out your LLC setting while setting +-1.36V in BIOS, or run a good LLC but from like a 1.45V starting point. That for y-cruncher stress test or LinX is going to be a lot of Vcore. Alas, I assume you know what you're doing.


----------



## JSHamlet234

affxct said:


> Eh you didn't read my reply XD. The boost table has changed and I already know of a chip that degraded at PBO. The Der8auer results are interesting, but idk what LLC he used. That would be a fairly big factor. He never informed us of what the actual load voltage was. Do not for one second tell me that an air cooler can cool a 1.45 load AVX 5800X XD.


FWIW, if you read the comments, I asked him how he was able to run Prime 95 at 1.45v with an air cooler and his exact reply was "AVX was disabled ofc"


----------



## affxct

JSHamlet234 said:


> FWIW, if you read the comments, I asked him how he was able to run Prime 95 at 1.45v with an air cooler and his exact reply was "AVX was disabled ofc"


Ohk that kinda adds more reasonable context. IIRC we never saw him change LLC either and Asus Auto is usually L3.


----------



## domdtxdissar

affxct said:


> Sorted then. Just to confirm:
> 
> y-cruncher component stress tester/LinX
> 1.365V+ in your board's most accurate VRM Vcore output sensor while the workload is at full blast
> Running at a respectable all-core clock speed deserving of the Vcore value, so as to not fudge the results
> No exotic cooling
> 8 cores/16 threads (or more)
> No weird power limiting features enabled that we'd never use for OCing
> I don't want to waste your time or effort so I just have to restate the conditions. But yeah I'd honestly love to see it. I didn't think it could be done and if you can set the record straight it would be kinda awesome.
> 
> I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but to produce those results you'd have to either max out your LLC setting while setting +-1.36V in BIOS, or run a good LLC but from like a 1.45V starting point. That for y-cruncher stress test or LinX is going to be a lot of Vcore. Alas, I assume you know what you're doing.


----------



## affxct

domdtxdissar said:


> View attachment 2565492


Just two questions; why 4GHz all-core, and secondly, how did you only hit 85c? I stipulated a reasonable frequency because underclocking is an easy way to dump heat.


----------



## domdtxdissar

affxct said:


> Just two questions; why 4GHz all-core, and secondly, how did you only hit 85c?


Are you trying to move goal posts now ?


----------



## affxct

domdtxdissar said:


> Are you trying to move goal posts now ?


No, if you check my initial post I stipulated a reasonable frequency XD. Who runs a 5800X at 4GHz all-core, and you have the added benefit of more die space to disperse heat. The 5800X objectively runs cooler with 8 cores than 8 i9 P-cores do. You didn't have to underclock your chip like that XD. It's as if you thought no one would notice.

You don't find 4GHz alarmingly low? Do you think 12900K users run this test at 4GHz? I kinda don't think you even daily 4GHz with all 16 active, but hey, maybe you run 16 cores at sub 4GHz? Do you? I asked you to do this for genuine scientific reasons and so that it can serve as a point of reference. This isn't even an OC for someone who owns a 5800X. All this proves is with a good underclock and amazing cooling, this can be done. Like sub 85c. Come on dude.


----------



## affxct

domdtxdissar said:


> Are you trying to move goal posts now ?


"Running at a respectable all-core clock speed deserving of the Vcore value, so as to not fudge the results"

............

Dude I didn't just add that in. That's been there since like 8 hours ago. I made everything crystal because I didn't want what just happened to happen. Now you've wasted your time and all we know is that a heavily underclocked 5950X with a CCX disabled can be run at high load Vcore when temps are ice cold.

Update: I wasn't thinking of this but I just noticed there was a PPT reading. You hit 190W. Dude 190W. Like what, you're trying to prove N7 is stronk running at 190W worth of current load. Loose math but 190/1.375 = 138A. Dude no one's chip is degrading at 140, screw it let's say 150A even though you didn't draw nearly that much.


----------



## Nizzen

domdtxdissar said:


> Are you trying to move goal posts now ?


Try 2ghz 🤣


----------



## affxct

@domdtxdissar 

I sincerely hope you took this up to actually gather some useful data and not simply to try and prove me wrong. That would've been utterly pointless dude. Let's give you the benefit and say you had no clue what to clock it to or how many cores to disable (I did say you could disable 8). If you started the test and noticed mmm at 4GHz with 8 cores I'm only pulling like 140A TDC and basically 0 heat or power, mmm maybe I should add some cores and some clock speed to actually hit a respectable current and power output? I'm not going to go and ask Ichirou how much his 12900K with 5.5 on at least 3/8 cores was drawing but I can imagine it wasn't 140A.


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## affxct

Nizzen said:


> Try 2ghz 🤣


I dunno who this is directed at but I genuinely was looking forward to have my mind blown. Not whatever this turned into. Like ye... Idk disappointment. I like being shown the impossible. That screenshot actually made me excited.


----------



## Nizzen

affxct said:


> I dunno who this is directed at but I genuinely was looking forward to have my mind blown. Not whatever this turned into. Like ye... Idk disappointment. I like being shown the impossible. That screenshot actually made me excited.


He has a binned b2 5950x, so if he's running 4ghz, maybe it's on the edge. 

I'm on vaccation, so can't try my 5950x b1.


----------



## domdtxdissar

affxct said:


> No, if you check my initial post I stipulated a reasonable frequency XD. Who runs a 5800X at 4GHz all-core, and you have the added benefit of more die space to disperse heat. The 5800X objectively runs cooler with 8 cores than 8 i9 P-cores do. You didn't have to underclock your chip like that XD. It's as if you thought no one would notice.
> 
> You don't find 4GHz alarmingly low? Do you think 12900K users run this test at 4GHz? I kinda don't think you even daily 4GHz with all 16 active, but hey, maybe you run 16 cores at sub 4GHz? Do you? I asked you to do this for genuine scientific reasons and so that it can serve as a point of reference. This isn't even an OC for someone who owns a 5800X. All this proves is with a good underclock and amazing cooling, this can be done. Like sub 85c. Come on dude.


You really dont want to eat your own words and admit you were wrong it seems  








What, do you expect me to run 5200mhz allcore on a watercooled Zen3 ? I'm done with this nonsens..


----------



## affxct

Nizzen said:


> He has a binned b2 5950x, so if he's running 4ghz, maybe it's on the edge.
> 
> I'm on vaccation, so can't try my 5950x b1.


I had a 5950X a few weeks ago. I wouldn't have minded disabling a CCX and doing this myself as well (on a 360 though), but I genuinely don't think the heat will be manageable past a certain clock speed. I dunno, it's possible that only one CCX of a 5950X allows for really cool operation, but it would have to be tested. Either way a 5800X doesn't draw as much power as a 12900K with 8 P-cores. If he ran this test at like 4.7/4.75/4.8 locked and was drawing at least 280W-300W, while happily doing 1.375V load then I would've been pretty impressed. Especially if that's a safe thing to do.


----------



## affxct

domdtxdissar said:


> You really dont want to eat your own words and admit you were wrong it seems
> View attachment 2565499
> 
> What, do you expect me to run 5200mhz allcore on a watercooled Zen3 ? I'm done with this nonsens..


Dude it's a matter of current and power. You're trying to prove the N7 node is more resilient than Intel's 10nm. What are you degrading with your current output? Do whatever it takes. Add some more cores. Take a blowtorch to your IHS. 

And again, there you go. That pretty much explains it. You're just trying to one up me. No worries dude if that's what you want, you win. I award you this virtual trophy 🏆. You came to shut me up because you absolutely couldn't stand someone saying that Intel 7 is probably a bit more resilient than N7. For what reason I do not know.


----------



## z390e

domdtxdissar said:


> What, do you expect me to run 5200mhz allcore on a watercooled Zen3 ? I'm done with this nonsens..


No but I think he wants this to be an apples to apples comparison. We are talking degradation that started after @Ichirou posted about his. If he had run his processor and it never pulled above 228w like your screenshot does, I doubt we would even have this argument, because he wouldn't have seen degradation.

In your screenshot your CPU package power is Maximum: 228w

Im pulling down 335w just running R23 on ADL with an AIO and a not-great-binned chip. You are running at roughly 33% less power with your chip.


----------



## affxct

z390e said:


> No but I think he wants this to be an apples to apples comparison. We are talking degradation that started after @Ichirou posted about his. If he had run his processor and it never pulled above 228w like your screenshot does, I doubt we would even have this argument, because he wouldn't have seen degradation.
> 
> In your screenshot your CPU package power is Maximum: 228w
> 
> Im pulling down 335w just running R23 on ADL with an AIO and a not-great-binned chip. You are running at roughly 33% less power with your chip.


Inevitably nothing will come of this, which is why I decided to drop it. Part of why I told him to disable cores is because I wasn't sure how bad it'd be if someone tried to use all 16 for the above and I didn't want to actually see someone's chip degrade. I guess in the end I played myself. It is what it is. 

This is the second time now that I've made a one liner out of pocket statement, and then ended up getting into an argument that I lose by default. I won't be posting much from now on for that reason, nothing good seems to come of it.


----------



## z390e

@affxct fwiw @domdtxdissar knows his stuff so it seems to me like this is more a case of just people not really communicating well, I think we all agree that these ADL chips run hot and I don't really think any of us are that surprised about degradation in OC'd ones at the end of the day

I think if we all sat down and really talked it through we are all really agreeing here


----------



## affxct

z390e said:


> @affxct fwiw @domdtxdissar knows his stuff so it seems to me like this is more a case of just people not really communicating well, I think we all agree that these ADL chips run hot and I don't really think any of us are that surprised about degradation in OC'd ones at the end of the day
> 
> I think if we all sat down and really talked it through we are all really agreeing here


I can tell he knows his stuff. I'm pretty sure he knew exactly what he was agreeing to and what could be possibly done with the correct values. I'm pretty sure he wasn't too thrilled to go back and add some more clocks to push temps to somewhat questionable levels. But again, it is what it is; I'm done, truly.

Part of why I hate tech conflicts so much is because I thought this was a space for learning and overall niceness. At least that's the vibe I get from most of the techtubers and I guess it's not really sensible to carry that over to the OC space in fairness. I came from a different hobby/pass time that was about as toxic as it gets, and I thought I had left that sort of atmosphere behind.

If I've learnt anything it's that people don't want your opinions or your advice. Inevitably they'll argue with you until they put you down and they'll twist your words and misconstrue as much as possible to make you out to be a heretic.


----------



## chentj1988

-Deleted-


----------



## Falkentyne

Spoiler






affxct said:


> These two screenshots do not show y-cruncher stress test running with a 1.365+ load Vcore. I don't mean to be rude, but that's kinda the challenge I laid out (8 cores only is fine). Most of what you said is totally fine and I agree that a decent chip probably doesn't need more than 1.35 to boost to 5GHz. My point is still that N7 is probably a little bit less durable than Intel 7. That was my initial comment that sparked all the outrage - no more, no less. Until someone puts up a screenshot of a 5800X (trying to be lenient here because a lot of dudes disable E-cores), operating at 1.365+ load voltage in y-cruncher stress test, I'm not really convinced of anything.
> 
> On the basis simply that everything Der8auer did in that video is doable on any and every 12900K sample. CB R20 was not running at 1.45V load AVX socket sense (or die sense) Vcore on air, there's just no way and I'm not hearing it - it also seems as though that other dude went back on this and said apparently the AVX Vcore at load wasn't 1.45, which is good and fair. With all due respect though, I don't care what this whole 'get' terminology is or what you type in in BIOS. It just doesn't really clarify enough. Whatever the load Vcore on your sensor readout is during the brunt of the AVX workload is - that's where the damage happens.
> 
> Ichirou's 12900K got taken out in y-cruncher stress test at 1.365-1.38 (different tests) load AVX Vcore and idk the test probably ran for an hour or something. A LinX running at 1.35V load Vcore (while the test is going, 1.35 shows in the sensor of VR Out) will suffice. Guys I made a very innocent comment and I didn't say the difference was drastic or that Intel 7 is much less degradable. I got blasted for it and now I have to either risk my stance or blindly agree. If someone can show their Zen 3 chip running at those values listed above then I'll fully concede that I was wrong about Zen 3 degradation and safe voltages. Maybe I am wrong, and I certainly hope I am.
> 
> I would absolutely love love love to see a 5900X or 5950X doing LinX calculations or y-cruncher BKT with 1.35V in the real-time V OUT sensor. Like it would genuinely make my day because I honestly can't fathom it. Not going to mention just yet what I used to daily and what my findings were because I sincerely want you guys to prove me wrong. It would honestly be so freakin' cool.
> 
> With all this said, if you already know you can't run y-cruncher stress test or LinX with 1.365+ on the VR out sensor safely, then please do not attempt it. The reason why I am using this value is because if the new info brought to the fore is accurate, then a value that Intel 7 clearly could not sustain should at least be runnable on TSMC N7 safely for at least a few 10s of minutes. I feel like that's not an utterly crazy thing to say.
> 
> I'm just confused that Zen users aren't aware that when 12th gen users run 3DMark we often go up to 1.5V set (before Vdroop), and certain auto OC algos like ROG AI Tuner and Intel IABT auto-overvolt us well above 1.45V during actual loads. ROG AI tuner thought my first 12900K could do 5.4G in COD Vang at some ludicrous voltage. I've never seen my chip peg 90c in a video game before that.
> 
> PS: Please no one be that guy that starts running these Zen tests with some sort of exotic cooling. A reasonable custom loop is fine, although I think Ichirou uses a 420 and his i9 probs would've enjoyed a little bit more cooling in the situation.






I already know about this degradation thing with ADL and previous chips but I intentionally have stayed out of this argument, since everyone disagrees with me anyway and everyone who disagrees are rich or very well to do people with extremely powerful cooling solutions. I have no reason to state my findings here, since (almost) no one cares anyway. But I will say Ichirou and affxct should not be insulted or flamed for posting their results. I went through this same crap years ago and left these forums for quite awhile after that. Then I came back and noticed a lot more people were agreeing with my findings yet not a single person who insulted me way back ever--ever apologized. So people simply don't deserve the results from other people's hard work, since in their world, it's a myth.

Anyway, done with this topic.

Waiting for Raptor Lake.


----------



## acoustic

affxct said:


> Inevitably nothing will come of this, which is why I decided to drop it. Part of why I told him to disable cores is because I wasn't sure how bad it'd be if someone tried to use all 16 for the above and I didn't want to actually see someone's chip degrade. I guess in the end I played myself. It is what it is.
> 
> This is the second time now that I've made a one liner out of pocket statement, and then ended up getting into an argument that I lose by default. I won't be posting much from now on for that reason, nothing good seems to come of it.


I'm not sure you "lost" any argument. Some don't seem to understand the factors that cause degradation. If anything, you're spot-on right.

Intel's 10nm process is not directly comparable to TSMC 7nm. Intel 10nm is not necessarily larger than TSMC 7nm just because one is 10, and the other is 7.

What causes degradation? Current, voltage, and temperature. You can run 1.5v no problem 24/7 if the current is low. With low current, you'd likely have low temperatures as well. If you're running high current, with high voltage, the risk of degradation decreases with low temperatures, but it's still possible. No one truly knows where that line is drawn, we just guesstimate based off old **** like "keep it under 80-90c."

What Ichirou is experiencing with his chip could have been chip "settling". It's not uncommon for a newer chip to do this. Running Y-Cruncher is a massive current load; combined with 90c+, I don't think this is a surprise if it did degrade. It's not the voltage specifically that killed it, it's a combination of the 3; current, voltage, temperature


----------



## fray_bentos

david12900k said:


> AVERAGES:
> 
> StatPre-DelidPost-DelidDifference ValueDifference %Package Temperature99.7517483​94.013986​5.73776224​5.75204179​Package TDP243.294978​269.538883​-26.243906​-10.786867​P-Core 0 Temperature92.8444056​87.3601399​5.48426573​5.90694259​P-Core 1 Temperature91.0437063​84.8409091​6.2027972​6.81298846​P-Core 2 Temperature95.4772727​90.4702797​5.00699301​5.24417263​P-Core 3 Temperature94.6468531​88.9982517​5.6486014​5.96808157​P-Core 4 Temperature96.8881119​92.1451049​4.74300699​4.89534464​P-Core 5 Temperature99.527972​93.2674825​6.26048951​6.29018093​P-Core 6 Temperature98.9300699​93.7395105​5.19055944​5.24669541​P-Core 7 Temperature99.3951049​93.4143357​5.98076923​6.01716678​


Recommended reading: "Significant figures for dummies".


----------



## Falkentyne

I installed the Thermalright anti-bending bracket for S1700 for my 12900K ES (that I had previously lightly sanded down to flatness).
Splendid results, although only a 2C temp drop compared to the frankenstein method I had to use before to get LM to work. Probably would have been a bigger drop if I were comparing stock paste to stock paste. One thing I noticed was, with the unaltered chip, and the stock retention mechanism, there is BARELY any headroom at all for liquid metal to work (regular thick paste like TFX or SYY-157 or Cyrofuze is fine), because there is literally almost no elevation above the socket bracket for the IHS, and that's at complete stock. So any warping at all, depending on cpu/board configuration (regardless of what block or cooler you're using) can cause results anywhere between no problem to big problem.

Now if you sand the IHS down to flatness (even the least amount of sanding possible), you could wind up with a no contact problem if you use LM. The Thermalright (and der8auer) brackets completely solve that problem, and you can see that by the IHS being clearly raised above the height of the custom frame retention bracket, with non OCD room left to spare, and a brand new stock chip (never installed) will do even better.

Temps are now better (a few C) with the TM bracket and homemade Galinstan (+ LFII 360), than they were with the stock ILM + 0.2mm Indium pad+LM sandwich (which was required because the LM barely made any contact with the IHS-heat block at all), because the lightly sanded CPU was literally completely flush with the ILM edges.
With the stock ILM, I had to use a 0.2mm indium pad+LM just to get proper contact pressure and Stockfish ran at 91C.
With the Thermalright bracket, I just used direct LM, without the gap filler indium pad and it was 89C. That's a giant win, as the indium pad was basically fused to the bottom of the LFII 360, and I had to soak it in "Quicksilver" (whatever that stuff rockitcool sells) to soften it, let it sit for awhile and then scrape it with a scraper and then sandpaper to get that mess off. (the CPU was much easier to clean, quick sandpaper wipe and alcohol and it was ready to go).


----------



## Lord Alzov

acoustic said:


> I'm not sure you "lost" any argument. Some don't seem to understand the factors that cause degradation. If anything, you're spot-on right.
> 
> Intel's 10nm process is not directly comparable to TSMC 7nm. Intel 10nm is not necessarily larger than TSMC 7nm just because one is 10, and the other is 7.
> 
> What causes degradation? Current, voltage, and temperature. You can run 1.5v no problem 24/7 if the current is low. With low current, you'd likely have low temperatures as well. If you're running high current, with high voltage, the risk of degradation decreases with low temperatures, but it's still possible. No one truly knows where that line is drawn, we just guesstimate based off old **** like "keep it under 80-90c."
> 
> What Ichirou is experiencing with his chip could have been chip "settling". It's not uncommon for a newer chip to do this. Running Y-Cruncher is a massive current load; combined with 90c+, I don't think this is a surprise if it did degrade. It's not the voltage specifically that killed it, it's a combination of the 3; current, voltage, temperature


No degradation. USe 12900k on 108c long time. And run without IHS lol.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Quick one my dudes. I am playing Elden Ring now. CPU nice and cold at 5.6Ghz at the moment.

However, 3 cores are set to 5.8Ghz. 

In game it doesn't seem to be using the 5.8Ghz (game is limited to 60Hz though)

As soon as I leave the game, I can see it boosting to 5.8Ghz.

What do you guys think?


----------



## Nizzen

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Quick one my dudes. I am playing Elden Ring now. CPU nice and cold at 5.6Ghz at the moment.
> 
> However, 3 cores are set to 5.8Ghz.
> 
> In game it doesn't seem to be using the 5.8Ghz (game is limited to 60Hz though)
> 
> As soon as I leave the game, I can see it boosting to 5.8Ghz.
> 
> What do you guys think?


You can use mod to get unlocket fps 

Try Battlefield V multiplayer to see if the cpu is nice and cold still 
I'd love to see 5.8ghz in that game!


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Nizzen said:


> You can use mod to get unlocket fps
> 
> Try Battlefield V multiplayer to see if the cpu is nice and cold still
> I'd love to see 5.8ghz in that game!


I'm more concerned about it not boosting to 5.8Ghz and according to CPU-Z and Core Temp it just stays 5.6Ghz all P core instead.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Quick one my dudes. I am playing Elden Ring now. CPU nice and cold at 5.6Ghz at the moment.
> 
> However, 3 cores are set to 5.8Ghz.
> 
> In game it doesn't seem to be using the 5.8Ghz (game is limited to 60Hz though)
> 
> As soon as I leave the game, I can see it boosting to 5.8Ghz.
> 
> What do you guys think?


Use Per Core, not Turbo.


----------



## david12900k

Nizzen said:


> You can use mod to get unlocket fps
> 
> Try Battlefield V multiplayer to see if the cpu is nice and cold still
> I'd love to see 5.8ghz in that game!


I'm currently testing out 5.7 GHz all core using OCTVB so in games my 12900KS does 5.7 GHz all core and in heavy workloads it does 5.5 GHz all core.
Did a bunch of stability testing and no crashes.
So far for gaming, 2 days of BF 2042, war thunder, overwatch, warzone, and World of tanks, and no crashes.

I'll run this setup for a week to make sure it's still stable and then dial in the per core multipliers.

The thing im trying to be cautious about is voltage. Under AVX workloads, my 5.5 GHz all core will use 1.27v under load at a max of 82c.
In BF2042, it will be 5.7 GHz all core at 1.359v, but everything stays under 55c (45c max in game). and im only drawing 160 watts. I was tinkering and most games were stable at 1.324v, but i was getting freezing during loading of rounds and at the end of rounds, so i can probably reduce the voltage a little more


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> Use Per Core, not Turbo.


It's per core.


----------



## Falkentyne

TheNaitsyrk said:


> It's per core.


You have to lock affinity with process lasso to a specific core and prevent threads from being put on other cores.
If windows manages it it's going to spread the load across multiple cores. You're never going to see 5.8 ghz in any game unless you lock the cores/threads and set affinity. And it's possible you're not going to be fully stable, but ymmv.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> It's per core.





Falkentyne said:


> You have to lock affinity with process lasso to a specific core and prevent threads from being put on other cores.
> If windows manages it it's going to spread the load across multiple cores. You're never going to see 5.8 ghz in any game unless you lock the cores/threads and set affinity. And it's possible you're not going to be fully stable, but ymmv.


Different motherboards handle Per Core differently, so some tinkering is necessary.
The Per Core mode on MSI Z690 boards are perfectly accurate: whatever multiplier you set to whichever core is constantly set to that multiplier regardless of load or how it is spread.
Very easy for me to fine tune and max out individual cores at specific Vcore settings.

For example, my 12900KF has five cores at 53x and three cores at 52x in Per Core mode, at 1.37V y-cruncher stable. 50x cache.
The cores are constantly at this setting, no matter what. It's not based on how many cores are currently in use.

Unfortunately, MSI does suffer from Intel's AVX2 throttling, so a BCLK overclock is necessary to override that.
Not hard, if you know what you're doing. But does require manual tweaking.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Falkentyne said:


> You have to lock affinity with process lasso to a specific core and prevent threads from being put on other cores.
> If windows manages it it's going to spread the load across multiple cores. You're never going to see 5.8 ghz in any game unless you lock the cores/threads and set affinity. And it's possible you're not going to be fully stable, but ymmv.


Ah I see so my only option is to task manager, find game in processes and right click set affinity to realtime?


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Ah I see so my only option is to task manager, find game in processes and right click set affinity to realtime?


You need to experiment. Each motherboard is different.


----------



## sugi0lover

Falkentyne said:


> You have to lock affinity with process lasso to a specific core and prevent threads from being put on other cores.
> If windows manages it it's going to spread the load across multiple cores. You're never going to see 5.8 ghz in any game unless you lock the cores/threads and set affinity. And it's possible you're not going to be fully stable, but ymmv.


I didn't have any problem with traditional manual all cores P5.8/E4.5/C4.6 in DOTA2 with my old CPU.
I have better CPU than that now, so I will try your method if it works.


Spoiler: P5.8 / E4.5 / C4.6


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> I didn't have any problem with traditional manual all cores P5.8/E4.5/C4.6 in DOTA2 with my old CPU.
> I have better CPU than that now, so I will try your method if it works.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: P5.8 / E4.5 / C4.6


What SP scores were on that chip? And what Vcore was that running at?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> What SP scores were on that chip? And what Vcore was that running at?


SP 103 (P 114, E82). It was more than a half year ago, so I don't remember vcore exactly, but I am sure vcore under load was below 1.42v.
After all, DOTA2 is not that CPU intensive.


----------



## david12900k

sugi0lover said:


> SP 103 (P 114, E82). It was more than a half year ago, so I don't remember vcore exactly, but I am sure vcore under load was below 1.42v.
> After all, DOTA2 is not that CPU intensive.


1.4v under a light gaming load should be fine for chip safety, right?


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> SP 103 (P 114, E82). It was more than a half year ago, so I don't remember vcore exactly, but I am sure vcore under load was below 1.42v.
> After all, DOTA2 is not that CPU intensive.


In your experience, between y-cruncher stable and just game stable, how much of a Vcore difference is there, on average?
Like, if DOTA2 stable was 1.42V, what do you think it would've needed to pass y-cruncher?


david12900k said:


> 1.4v under a light gaming load should be fine for chip safety, right?


Up to 1.45V should be fine on a 12900 if the temps are never particularly high, like under 60-70C.
Not really advisable to go above, though.

If it's any indication, I experienced degradation at 1.37-1.38V at 95C+ after a few hours. So scale that down accordingly as you raise Vcore further.
(That's with a full load 300W+ hammering the CPU.)


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> In your experience, between y-cruncher stable and just game stable, how much of a Vcore difference is there, on average?
> Like, if DOTA2 stable was 1.42V, what do you think it would've needed to pass y-cruncher?


I have never tested those voltages things in detail, but I see game use CPU under 200W, but y-cruncher easily use over 300W even at lower clock. very big gap here.


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> I have never tested those voltages things in detail, but I see game use CPU under 200W, but y-cruncher easily use over 300W at lower clock. very big gap here.


Ah, hm. 200W is a whole third less wattage. Definitely a big gap.

What sort of game(s) do you use to decide if an overclock is "game stable"? What's the most intensive one you use to test?


----------



## tubs2x4

Ichirou said:


> Ah, hm. 200W is a whole third less wattage. Definitely a big gap.
> 
> What sort of game(s) do you use to decide if an overclock is "game stable"? What's the most intensive one you use to test?


Cb23 if is stable likely good enough for gaming.


----------



## Ichirou

tubs2x4 said:


> Cb23 if is stable likely good enough for gaming.


10 minutes? 30 minutes?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Ah, hm. 200W is a whole third less wattage. Definitely a big gap.
> 
> What sort of game(s) do you use to decide if an overclock is "game stable"? What's the most intensive one you use to test?


Since core clock doesn't make a big difference in gaming, I don't focus on core clock 
Just 5.5Ghz for 5 consective y-cruncher passing is good enough for every games I play. I think 30min cine passing is also good enough for testing cores for the most games.
I focus a lot more on Ram OC because that makes difference in gaming. For testing my ram oc stability, I pass 10000% Karhu / 10 cycyes of TM5 extreme / 1000% HCI.


----------



## tubs2x4

Ichirou said:


> 10 minutes? 30 minutes?


Well I’ll put it like this all I ever did was 10 min and never crashed in game with blue screen like I do in cb23 if something is off.
I did that with my old 5820k for undervolting it when kids got my old computer and their gaming sessions have never had any issues.(been months running like that) As well as the 12700 now I do the same thing.
if you do real heavy load like ycruncher (I found the first time I tried that ha) I need like 30mv more for that benchnot to crash but honestly like one fella said you tune your computer for your needs. If you bench for high scores then you tune for that… if you game mostly you tune your system to be stable for that. To each their own. Everyone has an opinion on that. But cb23 I think loads cpu enough to find problems with overclock in a 10 min run. You just have to try it and see what happens with your system.


----------



## Nizzen

Ichirou said:


> 10 minutes? 30 minutes?


Try Battlefield V and 2042 for a few hours. If that's stable, you got gamestable 

Battlefield don't like unstable cpu and ram.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> I experienced degradation at 1.37-1.38V at 95C+ after a few hours. So scale that down accordingly as you raise Vcore further.
> (That's with a full load 300W+ hammering the CPU.)


Found 1.288 V avg. as well as min. Vcore for 5.2 GHz all cores (P-cores SP99 / E-cores off) and default 4.7 GHz cache for my crap 12900K*S* as completely stable, after completing a full run (almost 12 hours) of Prime95 (custom / FFTs in-place / non-AVX).

no delid or Direct DIE, only using liquid metal between IHS and waterblock of my aluminium 280×27 mm EK-AiO D-RGB Elite.

max. peak temp of the hottest core after almost 12 hours was 89°C and 78°C for the coolest (room temp 25-26°C).
max. avg. temp of the hottest core after almost 12 hours was 82° and 73°C for the coolest (room temp 25-26°C).

that's with max RAM OC of what my crap IMC allows, namely 2×16 GB 4000 MHz 14-15-14-28-2N-228 gear 1 1.603 V VDIMM.

max. peak amperage after almost 12 hours was 173 A and 156 A avg.
max. peak powerdraw after almost 12 hours was 228 W and 213 W avg.

SA and VDDQ TX are higher than what they will be later, because I'm sure the min. stable SA and VDDQ TX for Karhu 10.000% and full run of TM5 Absolut is lower than what Prime95 would require.

CPU SVID, cache SVID and L2 SVID are all set to 1.35 V (BIOS), just in case.
will see to what I'll be able to lower them all individually, once I've found min stable Vcore for 5.2/5.1 GHz P-cores/cache.

Will now increase cache from default 4.7 GHz to 5.1 GHz and rerun almost 12 hours of Prime95 (custom / FFTs in-place / non-AVX), to see by how much I will have to increase Vcore for it to be stable.


----------



## Groove2013

started Prime95 with same 5.2 GHz and same 1.288 V Vcore, but cache 5.1 GHz, instead of default 4.7 GHz, and insta BSOD.
will increase Vcore until 5.1 GHz cache is stable in Prime95.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> started Prime95 with same 5.2 GHz and same 1.288 V Vcore, but cache 5.1 GHz, instead of default 4.7 GHz, and insta BSOD.
> will increase Vcore until 5.1 GHz cache is stable in Prime95.


One loop of y-cruncher's component stress test with all options enabled is infinitely faster and more accurate than any other stress test and needs more Vcore than all the others.


----------



## Nizzen

@sugi0lover is currently 1. Place in Intel Open OC 🤩


----------



## Lord Alzov

Ichirou said:


> In your experience, between y-cruncher stable and just game stable, how much of a Vcore difference is there, on average?
> Like, if DOTA2 stable was 1.42V, what do you think it would've needed to pass y-cruncher?
> 
> Up to 1.45V should be fine on a 12900 if the temps are never particularly high, like under 60-70C.
> Not really advisable to go above, though.
> 
> If it's any indication, I experienced degradation at 1.37-1.38V at 95C+ after a few hours. So scale that down accordingly as you raise Vcore further.
> (That's with a full load 300W+ hammering the CPU.)


I use 12900KF 1.45v 5400 with 80-100C no degradation LOL and i RUN FEW time CPU withount IHS or with watercool with OFF PUMP LOL NO degradation. I THINK YOU LIE. I use PRIMe 94 400+WATT stress testing
LOOK AT THIS 5500 LINX 432 WATT no degradation


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/947983428823957564/993550780424536074/8554387630539120891.mp4


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> One loop of y-cruncher's component stress test with all options enabled is infinitely faster and more accurate than any other stress test and needs more Vcore than all the others.


have set the cache to only 5.0 GHz back from 5.1 previously, because it was requiring towards 1.35 V Vcore min./avg. and I don't want to run it at such voltage.

so now testing 5.0 GHz cache at same 1.288 V Vcore min./avg. that I previously found as being stable for 5.2/4.7 GHz P-cores/cache.

I think it might pass without further increasing Vcore from what it is now.
we will see.


----------



## z390e

Lord Alzov said:


> I use 12900KF 1.45v 5400 with 80-100C no degradation LOL and i RUN FEW time CPU withount IHS or with watercool with OFF PUMP LOL NO degradation. I THINK YOU LIE. I use PRIMe 94 400+WATT stress testing
> LOOK AT THIS 5500 LINX 432 WATT no degradation
> 
> 
> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/947983428823957564/993550780424536074/8554387630539120891.mp4



1. You said you have a 12900KF. That video shows a 12900KS. Is that your video or someone elses? What are you trying to show with it? That you can run a benchmark?
2. That video shows temperatures, but shows no time running, so could have been started at any time and isn't a real indicator.
3. Thats one test for an unknown time amount. @Ichirou is implying he was pushing his chip hard all the time.

You want to shut everyone up? Run y-cruncher on a loop for 24-96hours and post your HWInfo then of temps, and ideally it also won't have the GT Limit Reasons and Ring Limit reasons your HWInfo shows.


----------



## Lord Alzov

z390e said:


> 1. You said you have a 12900KF. That video shows a 12900KS. Is that your video or someone elses? What are you trying to show with it? That you can run a benchmark?
> 2. That video shows temperatures, but shows no time running, so could have been started at any time and isn't a real indicator.
> 3. Thats one test for an unknown time amount. @Ichirou is implying he was pushing his chip hard all the time.
> 
> You want to shut everyone up? Run y-cruncher on a loop for 24-96hours and post your HWInfo then of temps, and ideally it also won't have the GT Limit Reasons and Ring Limit reasons your HWInfo shows.


ITs video my friends,People wrote that above 300 watts of consumption, the CPU is already degraded, I showed that 432 watts 1.5VID does not degrade anything, it's written by finished noobs with hands out of the ass, who got good iron, and they don't know what to do with it.


----------



## z390e

you showed video for 10s to prove degradation @Ichirou said occurred over more than a year is false?

I think you are not seeing the ocean from the beach and missing the argument

No one is saying it is guaranteed, people saying it _can_ happen. You posting 10s video of it not happening to you is like fire department saying "Oh? No fire here, call back later." when someone calls about a fire at their house.

If I say your 12900KF only at 5.5ghz? You must be noob, people at 6.6ghz, you would say "well not same argument, they have LN2". Same thing here. They aren't the same argument.

People are saying degradation can happen. Not that it is guaranteed. This is in line with what the actual vendor (Intel) is saying also. Read their spec. Thats why the t-junction for the 12900ks is 100c









Product Specifications


quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.




ark.intel.com


----------



## Groove2013

Groove2013 said:


> have set the cache to only 5.0 GHz back from 5.1 previously, because it was requiring towards 1.35 V Vcore min./avg. and I don't want to run it at such voltage.
> 
> so now testing 5.0 GHz cache at same 1.288 V Vcore min./avg. that I previously found as being stable for 5.2/4.7 GHz P-cores/cache.
> 
> I think it might pass without further increasing Vcore from what it is now.
> we will see.


@Ichirou have finished testing uncore and 5.0 GHz, unlike 5.1, allowed me to keep Vcore at same 1.288 V (min. and avg. under load in HWiNFO when testing with Prime95), that I previously have found to be stable for 5.2/4.7 GHz cores/cache.

could have done 5.1 GHz cache at slightly less than 1.35 V(load), 5.2 GHz cache past 1.35 V (load), 5.3 GHz cores with less than 1.4 V (load) and 5.4 GHz around 1.4 V or slightly more (load), after delidding/Direct DIE, but since Rocket Lake is too close and my IMC is not as good as I would have wanted it to be, I don't delid/Direct DIE. so I will keep it at 5.2/5.0 GHz cores/cache until I switch to a 13900K(S).


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> @Ichirou have finished testing uncore and 5.0 GHz, unlike 5.1, allowed me to keep Vcore at same 1.288 V (min. and avg. under load in HWiNFO when testing with Prime95), that I previously have found to be stable for 5.2/4.7 GHz cores/cache.
> 
> could have done 5.1 GHz cache at slightly less than 1.35 V(load), 5.2 GHz cache past 1.35 V (load), 5.3 GHz cores with less than 1.4 V (load) and 5.4 GHz around 1.4 V or slightly more (load), after delidding/Direct DIE, but since Rocket Lake is too close and my IMC is not as good as I would have wanted it to be, I don't delid/Direct DIE. so I will keep it at 5.2/5.0 GHz cores/cache until I switch to a 13900K(S).


That's with your 12900KS? Those numbers look similar to what I can achieve on this average bin 12900KF I have... Doesn't seem right.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> That's with your 12900KS? Those numbers look similar to what I can achieve on this average bin 12900KF I have... Doesn't seem right.


yes, KS with SP99 P-cores and that's in Prime95 (non-AVX), on my AiO and no delid or Direct DIE.
25-27°C room temp.


----------



## Groove2013

if I select AVX in Prime95 or even worse AVX2/FMA3, Vcore will have to go way higher and impossible to cool for me.


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> yes, KS with SP99 P-cores and that's in Prime95 (non-AVX), on my AiO and no delid or Direct DIE.
> 25-27°C room temp.


That's the thing. I have a KF with P-SP 99, which is effectively 7 points worse than your P-SP 99 KS. This chip's also not delidded or direct die.
And that's being tested in y-cruncher's component stress test, which is much harder than anything P95 offers.
I do have a massive custom water loop, but that's only allows me to reach up to ~1.40V before I get thermal throttled. Similar ambient temps.

I think your AIO is what's holding you back. I can do 52-53/50 (core/cache, no E-cores) at 1.37V load (used to be 1.36V, until it degraded).
Five of the cores can do 53x, and three can do 52x.

Your chip should be able to do much better than mine.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> I think your AIO is what's holding you back. I can do 52-53/50 (core/cache, no E-cores) at 1.37V load (used to be 1.36V, until it degraded).
> Five of the cores can do 53x, and three can do 52x.


it's an EK AiO 280×27 mm aluminium )))


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> it's an EK AiO 280×27 mm aluminium )))


Any chance of getting that upgraded? If not, you're going to struggle with Raptor Lake as well, which means future CPU upgrades are pointless.


----------



## Groove2013

Ichirou said:


> Any chance of getting that upgraded? If not, you're going to struggle with Raptor Lake as well, which means future CPU upgrades are pointless.


sure, I can no problem do that, but haven't done that, yet.
what is your waterblock, how many pumps and how many and which rads (size/thickness)?


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> sure, I can no problem do that, but haven't done that, yet.
> what is your waterblock, how many pumps and how many and which rads (size/thickness)?


You can survive on an Arctic 420mm, if you want to stick with an AIO solution. Wouldn't need the space or investment for a custom water loop that way.
Mine's not the absolute best compared to what others like @sugi0lover have, but it's an EK Velocity, two D5 pumps (will be three soon), and MO-RA 420 + Bykski 1080 radiator.
(That's equivalent to 3x420mm and 3x360mm. Ambient temps average around 25C, and max water temp is 30C at the worst, but usually 29C during testing.)
It's good enough (without delidding or direct die) to cool up to 1.38V or about 300W in y-cruncher's component stress test. But I can test up to 1.45V in R23.


----------



## Groove2013

@Ichirou GPU also in the loop? GPU model?


----------



## Ichirou

Groove2013 said:


> @Ichirou GPU also in the loop? GPU model?


Not yet in the loop. I only have one GPU right now (no backup), and I need to use it for work on my Z390 machine.


----------



## chentj1988

Ichirou said:


> You can survive on an Arctic 420mm, if you want to stick with an AIO solution. Wouldn't need the space or investment for a custom water loop that way.
> Mine's not the absolute best compared to what others like @sugi0lover have, but it's an EK Velocity, two D5 pumps (will be three soon), and MO-RA 420 + Bykski 1080 radiator.
> (That's equivalent to 3x420mm and 3x360mm. Ambient temps average around 25C, and max water temp is 30C at the worst, but usually 29C during testing.)
> It's good enough (without delidding or direct die) to cool up to 1.38V or about 300W in y-cruncher's component stress test. But I can test up to 1.45V in R23.


I got my KS installed with Supercools direct kit. I think maybe you can consider it. I think the seller improved the product. The ARGB is actually not that bad compared to my Ekwb velocity 2. At first I was worried 😅. The only issue I had was putting the IHS on it. To be honest I broke 1 of the 4 capacitor (not sure it’s resistor or capacitor or etc) at the bottom left side of the chip. Luckily I could solder it back by replacing it with another new 12100f as spare parts.

It sounds scary but it was purely my personal problem. I’m so bad at doing such handcraft thingy 😂. But in overall the whole thing helped me improved my temperature for like 15C and 50mv. And also direct die cooling seems more efficient in high temperature cooling. I think it’s definitely worth to delid and direct die it if you plan to keep the chip for long. I’m glad that my KS survived lol 😆.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> I got my KS installed with Supercools direct kit. I think maybe you can consider it. I think the seller improved the product. The ARGB is actually not that bad compared to my Ekwb velocity 2. At first I was worried 😅. The only issue I had was putting the IHS on it. To be honest I broke 1 of the 4 capacitor (not sure it’s resistor or capacitor or etc) at the bottom left side of the chip. Luckily I could solder it back by replacing it with another new 12100f as spare parts.
> 
> It sounds scary but it was purely my personal problem. I’m so bad at doing such handcraft thingy 😂. But in overall the whole thing helped me improved my temperature for like 15C and 50mv. And also direct die cooling seems more efficient in high temperature cooling. I think it’s definitely worth to delid and direct die it if you plan to keep the chip for long. I’m glad that my KS survived lol 😆.


Near death experience damn. 

I have ordered another direct die kit from Supercool but it never arrived and since they never reply (I messaged them via e-mail and website form 18 days ago) and still nothing. Even raising dispute via Paypal did nothing. Had to escalate the issue to Paypal so now working on my refund. Such a shame.


----------



## chentj1988

@sugi0lover The king will always r


TheNaitsyrk said:


> Near death experience damn.
> 
> I have ordered another direct die kit from Supercool but it never arrived and since they never reply (I messaged them via e-mail and website form 18 days ago) and still nothing. Even raising dispute via Paypal did nothing. Had to escalate the issue to Paypal so now working on my refund. Such a shame.


Ordered by 12 June, received by around 28th June. I also filed a refund at PayPal. The thing is don’t use this frame holder (Photo below), manually sit the IHS and you will be fine. The supercool IHS is slightly bigger than stock IHS. Manually apply the IHS and you will be fine!

Btw the Argb is broken. ***… lol… I ordered 200mm argb strips and gonna replace it myself. 😅


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> @sugi0lover The king will always r
> 
> 
> Ordered by 12 June, received by around 28th June. I also filed a refund at PayPal. The thing is don’t use this frame holder (Photo below), manually sit the IHS and you will be fine. The supercool IHS is slightly bigger than stock IHS. Manually apply the IHS and you will be fine!
> 
> Btw the Argb is broken. ***… lol… I ordered 200mm argb strips and gonna replace it myself. 😅
> View attachment 2566256


I already have one, just ordered a backup. Never showed up, no tracking no nothing...


----------



## chentj1988

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I already have one, just ordered a backup. Never showed up, no tracking no nothing...


That is their style. I even find them in Facebook and Line, telegram. No reply at all.
Anyway I tried with your setting 58/56 1.435v llc6, it just won’t pass R23. I didn’t try to push it further but your chip should perform better than mine. 👍🏻👍🏻


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> That is their style. I even find them in Facebook and Line, telegram. No reply at all.
> Anyway I tried with your setting 58/56 1.435v llc6, it just won’t pass R23. I didn’t try to push it further but your chip should perform better than mine. 👍🏻👍🏻


Aww it doesn't pass? My one passed CB23 30min 3x so I consider it stable enough.

Try 1.465V (still safe but don't go over this)

What are your temps? That could be the cause.

Just to be safe, I added another 480mm rads worth, so total 12 rads and it's equivalent to 4800mm of rad space haha just to be on the safe side.


----------



## chentj1988

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Aww it doesn't pass? My one passed CB23 30min 3x so I consider it stable enough.
> 
> Try 1.465V (still safe but don't go over this)
> 
> What are your temps? That could be the cause.
> 
> Just to be safe, I added another 480mm rads worth, so total 12 rads and it's equivalent to 4800mm of rad space haha just to be on the safe side.


I’m using 240 + 360 + 360, cooling 3090 and cpu. Well I think I just have to accept what my chip capable of. My water temp max lowest is 28C. It is 365 hot summer day here. I have to live with the ambient temperature here so yeah basically that’s it for me.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> I’m using 240 + 360 + 360, cooling 3090 and cpu. Well I think I just have to accept what my chip capable of. My water temp max lowest is 28C. It is 365 hot summer day here. I have to live with the ambient temperature here so yeah basically that’s it for me.


How hot does your CPU get at the 5.5/4/4 46? After 30 min Cinebench R23?


----------



## chentj1988

I didn’t try but 5.5ghz only can pair with 4.3. It won’t work if 5.5/4.4 for my chip. 5.5/4.3/4.5 Cinebench r23 if run at Vlow is around 75C for 10 mins.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

chentj1988 said:


> I didn’t try but 5.5ghz only can pair with 4.3. It won’t work if 5.5/4.4 for my chip. 5.5/4.3/4.5 Cinebench r23 if run at Vlow is around 75C for 10 mins.


Ah okay same temps as mine. Will it really not pass 5.6? That's strange... I guess every chip is different.


----------



## Alberto_It

New bios for Asus Z690 boards









[OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


The thread is mostly abandoned by Asus, what did you expect? Recommend everyone to join the trainwreck?




www.overclock.net


----------



## chentj1988

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Ah okay same temps as mine. Will it really not pass 5.6? That's strange... I guess every chip is different.


Yeah… every chip is dif. Some people with low SP might be able to do 5.7ghz, just that they need higher voltage.


----------



## Nizzen

chentj1988 said:


> Yeah… every chip is dif. Some people with low SP might be able to do 5.7ghz, just that they need higher voltage.


Yep! My SP63 10900k ran 5.6ghz in cinebench on water. Not many sub SP 90 did that. Had better imc on a sp 87, so I used that instead for 4700c17 1t.


----------



## jomama22

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Ah okay same temps as mine. Will it really not pass 5.6? That's strange... I guess every chip is different.


I mean, you literally had a 100+ p-core ks not do that...


----------



## ajolly

Falkentyne said:


> You have to lock affinity with process lasso to a specific core and prevent threads from being put on other cores.
> If windows manages it it's going to spread the load across multiple cores. You're never going to see 5.8 ghz in any game unless you lock the cores/threads and set affinity. And it's possible you're not going to be fully stable, but ymmv.


Speaking of core locking, anyone else notice weirdness with thread scheduling on win 10 vs win 11? From what I've seen Win 10 is much better about thread scheduling than 11, 11 does not seem to prioritize using the preferred P cores. On 10 it likes to keep E cores active, and one or two P cores (the preferred ones), letting it boost to higher single core speeds.

ParkCore on windows 10 lets you set different power rules for E vs P cores, but it doesnt seem to work on Win 11 effectively. 
From Bitsum (who make process lasso/park core): "The P/E cores selection is disabled in Windows 11 because Win11 doesn't honor distinct settings for P and E cores. In contrast, Windows 10 does honor distinct settings for each."


----------



## chentj1988

jomama22 said:


> I mean, you literally had a 100+ p-core ks not do that...


Well the SP value is still a good reference for chip quality, at least the Vmin should be better than lower SP. The IMC and Max achievable frequency are another RNG for high sp chip. For South East Asia people ambient is always our problem here. So to me it’s actually worth to get good SP chip so my system will run cooler despite high ambient temp here.


----------



## jomama22

chentj1988 said:


> Well the SP value is still a good reference for chip quality, at least the Vmin should be better than lower SP. The IMC and Max achievable frequency are another RNG for high sp chip. For South East Asia people ambient is always our problem here. So to me it’s actually worth to get good SP chip so my system will run cooler despite high ambient temp here.


I realize all of that. Was making the reply to them specifically to that comment basically implying all of that.


----------



## Nikster

Hi, i search a Apex 2022, please pm on me, pay good 🎱


----------



## Simkin

Nikster said:


> Hi, i search a Apex 2022, please pm on me, pay good 🎱


Why. Apex Z790 is probably here in a short time.


----------



## Simkin

Just out of curiosity.

Anyone playing Fortnite here on 12900K, RTX 30 series card, DDR5 and Windows 11?

I have so much crashes and performance issues with this game its ridiculous.


----------



## david12900k

Simkin said:


> Just out of curiosity.
> 
> Anyone playing Fortnite here on 12900K, RTX 30 series card, DDR5 and Windows 11?
> 
> I have so much crashes and performance issues with this game its ridiculous.


Are any of your components overclocked?


----------



## Simkin

david12900k said:


> Are any of your components overclocked?


Yes. AI OC, running 5.1Ghz P-core and 3.8ghz E-core in Fortnite. DDR5 @ 6200 CL32

My RTX 3090 FE running a mild 100Mhz OC on Core and 250Mhz on Memory

Have tried putting my 12900K @ stock and also the memory stock @ 4800Mhz, did not help.


----------



## Ichirou

Simkin said:


> Yes. AI OC, running 5.1Ghz P-core and 3.8ghz E-core in Fortnite. DDR5 @ 6200 CL32
> 
> My RTX 3090 FE running a mild 100Mhz OC on Core and 250Mhz on Memory
> 
> Have tried putting my 12900K @ stock and also the memory stock @ 4800Mhz, did not help.


Do you get problems in any other games?

If not, Fortnite just sucks.


----------



## Simkin

Ichirou said:


> Do you get problems in any other games?
> 
> If not, Fortnite just sucks.


Fortnite is the only game thats behave like this, it most probably suck, but i suspect Windows 11, as i have read people switch back to Windows 10 from 11 and it have stopped the crashing.

But, just wanted to see if anyone in here playing it on latest 12th gen and Windows 11.


----------



## tubs2x4

Simkin said:


> Fortnite is the only game thats behave like this, it most probably suck, but i suspect Windows 11, as i have read people switch back to Windows 10 from 11 and it have stopped the crashing.
> 
> But, just wanted to see if anyone in here playing it on latest 12th gen and Windows 11.


Maybe completely wipe Fortnite and and reinstall? Something corrupt in it maybe.


----------



## david12900k

Simkin said:


> Yes. AI OC, running 5.1Ghz P-core and 3.8ghz E-core in Fortnite. DDR5 @ 6200 CL32
> 
> My RTX 3090 FE running a mild 100Mhz OC on Core and 250Mhz on Memory
> 
> Have tried putting my 12900K @ stock and also the memory stock @ 4800Mhz, did not help.


Try putting everything at stock (CPU, ram, and graphics card). Does it still crash?


----------



## Spit051261

Not a K but a KS managed 7272 on pifast.
A lot faster than I managed with a K (7000).


----------



## david12900k

Simkin said:


> Fortnite is the only game thats behave like this, it most probably suck, but i suspect Windows 11, as i have read people switch back to Windows 10 from 11 and it have stopped the crashing.
> 
> But, just wanted to see if anyone in here playing it on latest 12th gen and Windows 11.


I can tell you that I have had no issues using a 12900k and 12900KS on fortnite. And i know a ton of other people with alder lake that also play fornite with no issues.

Im not saying that there isnt maybe a problem with your setup, but that it does not seem to be a widespread problem


----------



## Falkentyne

Simkin said:


> Just out of curiosity.
> 
> Anyone playing Fortnite here on 12900K, RTX 30 series card, DDR5 and Windows 11?
> 
> I have so much crashes and performance issues with this game its ridiculous.


Never had any crashes on Fortnite with this system configuration. Try checking your RAM stability at stock. You may not be as stable as you think.
Run OCCT memory test and some y-cruncher and some Prime95 Large FFT's.


----------



## satinghostrider

Simkin said:


> Yes. AI OC, running 5.1Ghz P-core and 3.8ghz E-core in Fortnite. DDR5 @ 6200 CL32
> 
> My RTX 3090 FE running a mild 100Mhz OC on Core and 250Mhz on Memory
> 
> Have tried putting my 12900K @ stock and also the memory stock @ 4800Mhz, did not help.


Try bumping your L2 cache in BIOS to 1.15V and see if you crash. Set it to manual and key in 1.15V. See if it still crashes.


----------



## Simkin

david12900k said:


> Try putting everything at stock (CPU, ram, and graphics card). Does it still crash?


Yes, i tried that earlier.



david12900k said:


> I can tell you that I have had no issues using a 12900k and 12900KS on fortnite. And i know a ton of other people with alder lake that also play fornite with no issues.
> 
> Im not saying that there isnt maybe a problem with your setup, but that it does not seem to be a widespread problem


Found this one, seesm like im not the only one

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/FortNiteBR/comments/raw2oz



Falkentyne said:


> Never had any crashes on Fortnite with this system configuration. Try checking your RAM stability at stock. You may not be as stable as you think.
> Run OCCT memory test and some y-cruncher and some Prime95 Large FFT's.


You playing on Windows 10 or 11? DX11 or DX12?



satinghostrider said:


> Try bumping your L2 cache in BIOS to 1.15V and see if you crash. Set it to manual and key in 1.15V. See if it still crashes.


Its already at 1.15v


----------



## SuperMumrik

Simkin said:


> Its already at 1.15v


Try to kill of the e-cores to exclude the l2 voltage altogether. 

Fortnite should not have any issues with adl and win11. 
To be honest, ADL is annoyingly stable 😉


----------



## Simkin

Re-installed Fortnite today, have not had any crash so far, played some hours, seems to run smoother also, but dx12 is still a laggy mess, so using dx11.


----------



## z390e

Wow, some really nice ADL scores from users in this thread over on the Intel Open right now on HWBot. Shows who is putting their $ where their mouth is   






Overclocking, overclocking, and much more! Like overclocking.


HWBOT is a site dedicated to overclocking. We promote overclocking achievements and competitions for professionals as well as enthousiasts with rankings and a huge hardware database.




hwbot.org





Don't want to steal anyones thunder of revealing their scores but holy crap some of you are really pushing things to great places!!!!


----------



## matique

Congratulations Sugi on winning rookie league for cpu freq! Another 12900k in the bag


----------



## sugi0lover

matique said:


> Congratulations Sugi on winning rookie league for cpu freq! Another 12900k in the bag


I haven't submitted my better scores yet since there are still many days left 
Anyway thanks a lot for you and this forum members!


----------



## matique

sugi0lover said:


> I haven't submitted my better scores yet since there are still many days left
> Anyway thanks a lot for you and this forum members!


Here I am barely hitting 5950, while you have a 6050 sub with better scores to come 😂 that chip is wild, with the direct die cooling too. Don't think I'll get my mora in time to compete. I'd say I did pretty decent with just a mini itx build with dual 280.


----------



## z390e

sugi0lover said:


> I haven't submitted my better scores yet since there are still many days left
> Anyway thanks a lot for you and this forum members!


I remember a certain former oc member getting upset at how each of your components was at S tier while the rest of us hope even one of ours is 😆 My own reaction was more being impressed at the time, dedication, luck, and skill it takes to:

Know which components it will take to reach the highest levels
Find the components at that quality tier just to be able to put it together
Afford it once they are found lol
Configure it correctly and oc each component almost to its limit
Its awesome to see what a real system can do that takes a massive crap on 99.99% of the youtube "BEST GAMING PC EVER BUILT OMG" streamer vids and I think you (and the other high scorers) should be respected and congratulated for the effort and skill it takes to reach those levels.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

BIOS update for Z690 Formula...

We're getting new CPUs soon definitely confirmed and it will work with Z690.

Version 1601
2022/07/08 10.75 MBytes
ROG MAXIMUS Z690 FORMULA BIOS 1601
"1.Update Microcode for next generation Intel Processors.

Before running the USB BIOS Flashback tool, please rename the BIOS file (MZ690F.CAP) using BIOSRenamer."
DOWNLOAD


----------



## david12900k

z390e said:


> I remember a certain former oc member getting upset at how each of your components was at S tier while the rest of us hope even one of ours is 😆 My own reaction was more being impressed at the time, dedication, luck, and skill it takes to:
> 
> Know which components it will take to reach the highest levels
> Find the components at that quality tier just to be able to put it together
> Afford it once they are found lol
> Configure it correctly and oc each component almost to its limit
> Its awesome to see what a real system can do that takes a massive crap on 99.99% of the youtube "BEST GAMING PC EVER BUILT OMG" streamer vids and I think you (and the other high scorers) should be respected and congratulated for the effort and skill it takes to reach those levels.


Agreed. To find good bins for all components seems like the key to success. I'm having trouble with my z690 Apex which can't oc ram past 6400 it seems. That or im just an idiot who doesn't know how to Oc ddr5 which is also possible


----------



## Ichirou

david12900k said:


> Agreed. To find good bins for all components seems like the key to success. I'm having trouble with my z690 Apex which can't oc ram past 6400 it seems. That or im just an idiot who doesn't know how to Oc ddr5 which is also possible


You have a 2021 Apex. That's all it is. Gotta get a 2022 one.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> BIOS update for Z690 Formula...
> 
> We're getting new CPUs soon definitely confirmed and it will work with Z690.
> 
> Version 1601
> 2022/07/08 10.75 MBytes
> ROG MAXIMUS Z690 FORMULA BIOS 1601
> "1.Update Microcode for next generation Intel Processors.
> 
> Before running the USB BIOS Flashback tool, please rename the BIOS file (MZ690F.CAP) using BIOSRenamer."
> DOWNLOAD


I'd be surprised if Raptor Lake got skipped, lol


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> I'd be surprised if Raptor Lake got skipped, lol


What I mean is we're getting very near release date when BIOS for them comes out

I also heard there is no IPC increase, it's just 8 extra E cores which make the entire thing hotter for no reason.

I will stick with my 12900KS that's well binned for sure.


----------



## Nelfhunt

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I also heard there is no IPC increase, it's just 8 extra E cores which make the entire thing hotter for no reason.


All I can say is Your source is wrong.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Nelfhunt said:


> All I can say is Your source is wrong.











Intel Core i9-13900K Raptor Lake 5.5 GHz CPU Benchmarks Leak Out: 10% Faster Than Core i9-12900K In Single-Core & A Massive 35% Gain In Multi-Threaded Tests


Intel Core i9-13900K Raptor Lake CPU at 5.5 GHz offers a huge performance increase over its predecessor, the 12900K in leaked benchmarks.




wccftech.com





"At the same clocks, the Raptor Lake chip offers virtually no performance improvement which means that the Raptor Cove cores aren't delivering any architectural IPC uplifts and the main performance benefits come from the higher clock speeds and increased cache layout. "


----------



## Nizzen

Gg


----------



## Hfhjfg

If 13900k will have the same IPC performance, it will be as useless as 11900k was.

But I still think new p-cores will bring IPC uplift as well as increased core clocks. 

Will be nice to see +15% IPC and stock 5.5 all cores


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Hfhjfg said:


> If 13900k will have the same IPC performance, it will be as useless as 11900k was.
> 
> But I still think new p-cores will bring IPC uplift as well as increased core clocks.
> 
> Will be nice to see +15% IPC and stock 5.5 all cores


That would be great. I'm just happy my highly binned 12900KS will be relevant for a while longer.

I think it will be harder to clock it as high as 12900KS because 16 E cores will heat up that chip when Ocing like you wouldn't believe.


----------



## Raphie

Me too, when just “more of the same” the KS will do just fine.


----------



## spin5000

Hi every one. Got a 12900KS recently. Where should I start in terms of OC'ing? I just finished my DDR4 RAM OC'ing so am now onto CPU. I'm not using e-cores. Is 5.3 GHz all-core, 5.4 6-core, 5.5 GHz 4-core, 5.6 GHz 2-core fairly realistic with the average 12900KS? Cooling is good but not amazing with an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 upgraded w/ Phanteks T30 fans. Also using the Thermaltake ILM replacement thing - used it since day 1 so as to not give the CPU any chance of bending from the stock ILM.

Also, I may - apparently according to some users - have a "golden" IMC since I can not only post, not only boot to WIndows, but even run the PC normally without seeming issues with 32 GB (2x 16 GB), dual-rank, B-die sticks @ 4300 MHz, gear1, 16-16-16-32 (and tuned subtimings). Let's say it is a golden IMC, does that translate into a higher chance of being able to run very high cache (AKA ring, uncore) frequencies or should I just stick to aiming for the typical 4.9 - 5.0 most ppl with e-cores disabled run? Also, does the rule still apply where cache should not be closer than 100 - 200 MHz from the CPU core clock or is it different with Alder Lake?

MB: MSI Z690 Edge DDR4


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

spin5000 said:


> Hi every one. Got a 12900KS recently. Where should I start in terms of OC'ing? I just finished my DDR4 RAM OC'ing so am now onto CPU. I'm not using e-cores. Is 5.3 GHz all-core, 5.4 6-core, 5.5 GHz 4-core, 5.6 GHz 2-core fairly realistic with the average 12900KS? Cooling is good but not amazing with an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 upgraded w/ Phanteks T30 fans. Also using the Thermaltake ILM replacement thing - used it since day 1 so as to not give the CPU any chance of bending from the stock ILM.
> 
> Also, I may - apparently according to some users - have a "golden" IMC since I can not only post, not only boot to WIndows, but even run the PC normally without seeming issues with 32 GB (2x 16 GB), dual-rank, B-die sticks @ 4300 MHz, gear1, 16-16-16-32 (and tuned subtimings). Let's say it is a golden IMC, does that translate into a higher chance of being able to run very high cache (AKA ring, uncore) frequencies or should I just stick to aiming for the typical 4.9 - 5.0 most ppl with e-cores disabled run? Also, does the rule still apply where cache should not be closer than 100 - 200 MHz from the CPU core clock or is it different with Alder Lake?
> 
> MB: MSI Z690 Edge DDR4


It's pointless setting cores like this. Games will clock to lowest 5.3Ghz all core anyway, it's good to find highest all core you can get, and then get 3 or 2 top cores to highest frequency they'll allow you. So e.g. when you use Photoshop it will take advantage of it.

I for instance have it at 5.6Ghz all core and 3 of the cores are 5.8Ghz.

Your cooling won't let you go that high I think though.

Cache and IMC is two separate things I believe. I run mine at 46. You can run it higher if you disable E cores.

To make sure RAM is stable memtest86 it.


----------



## Ichirou

spin5000 said:


> Hi every one. Got a 12900KS recently. Where should I start in terms of OC'ing? I just finished my DDR4 RAM OC'ing so am now onto CPU. I'm not using e-cores. Is 5.3 GHz all-core, 5.4 6-core, 5.5 GHz 4-core, 5.6 GHz 2-core fairly realistic with the average 12900KS? Cooling is good but not amazing with an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 upgraded w/ Phanteks T30 fans. Also using the Thermaltake ILM replacement thing - used it since day 1 so as to not give the CPU any chance of bending from the stock ILM.
> 
> Also, I may - apparently according to some users - have a "golden" IMC since I can not only post, not only boot to WIndows, but even run the PC normally without seeming issues with 32 GB (2x 16 GB), dual-rank, B-die sticks @ 4300 MHz, gear1, 16-16-16-32 (and tuned subtimings). Let's say it is a golden IMC, does that translate into a higher chance of being able to run very high cache (AKA ring, uncore) frequencies or should I just stick to aiming for the typical 4.9 - 5.0 most ppl with e-cores disabled run? Also, does the rule still apply where cache should not be closer than 100 - 200 MHz from the CPU core clock or is it different with Alder Lake?
> 
> MB: MSI Z690 Edge DDR4


Set the board to Per Core mode and individually find the best multipliers for each core.

The cache (ring) shares Vcore with the P/E-cores, so simply run it as high as you can before y-cruncher gets unstable and throws errors/crashes.
Also, to pass y-cruncher, you might need to raise VCCSA.


TheNaitsyrk said:


> It's pointless setting cores like this. Games will clock to lowest 5.3Ghz all core anyway, it's good to find highest all core you can get, and then get 3 or 2 top cores to highest frequency they'll allow you. So e.g. when you use Photoshop it will take advantage of it.
> 
> I for instance have it at 5.6Ghz all core and 3 of the cores are 5.8Ghz.
> 
> Your cooling won't let you go that high I think though.
> 
> Cache and IMC is two separate things I believe. I run mine at 46. You can run it higher if you disable E cores.
> 
> To make sure RAM is stable memtest86 it.


MSI boards allow you to force individual cores to run at whatever multipliers you want them to be. They don't downclock based on core count usage, when set to Per Core mode.

You can do something wacky like 52/54/53/55/51/52/54/53 just fine so long as the cores can run at those multipliers with the Vcore you throw at it.
But only in Per Core mode. They won't clock down.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> Set the board to Per Core mode and individually find the best multipliers for each core.
> 
> The cache (ring) shares Vcore with the P/E-cores, so simply run it as high as you can before y-cruncher gets unstable and throws errors/crashes.
> Also, to pass y-cruncher, you might need to raise VCCSA.
> 
> MSI boards allow you to force individual cores to run at whatever multipliers you want them to be. They don't downclock based on core count usage, when set to Per Core mode.
> 
> You can do something wacky like 52/54/53/55/51/52/54/53 just fine so long as the cores can run at those multipliers with the Vcore you throw at it.
> But only in Per Core mode. They won't clock down.


Ah you learn something new every day! Thanks.

No idea how to enable this on my ASUS mobo, wish I could. But 5.6Ghz all core and 5.8Ghz 3 core is no slouch so still happy.


----------



## satinghostrider

Ichirou said:


> Set the board to Per Core mode and individually find the best multipliers for each core.
> 
> The cache (ring) shares Vcore with the P/E-cores, so simply run it as high as you can before y-cruncher gets unstable and throws errors/crashes.
> Also, to pass y-cruncher, you might need to raise VCCSA.
> 
> MSI boards allow you to force individual cores to run at whatever multipliers you want them to be. They don't downclock based on core count usage, when set to Per Core mode.
> 
> You can do something wacky like 52/54/53/55/51/52/54/53 just fine so long as the cores can run at those multipliers with the Vcore you throw at it.
> But only in Per Core mode. They won't clock down.


Just curious, for you to run high ring, does stability get affected if you set it SA to auto or you have to set a manual SA by fine-tuning it. Cause I'm currently at 6800c32 with SA set to Auto and it's been rock stable with 4.2Ghz ring. Am just looking to see how to increase my ring slightly from here.


----------



## Ichirou

satinghostrider said:


> Just curious, for you to run high ring, does stability get affected if you set it SA to auto or you have to set a manual SA by fine-tuning it. Cause I'm currently at 6800c32 with SA set to Auto and it's been rock stable with 4.2Ghz ring. Am just looking to see how to increase my ring slightly from here.


When I reached the maximum stable I could get my ring to, I noticed that the cores would simply start to struggle beyond that. Weird cases of instability. Raising Vcore and VCCSA didn't seem to help. 

If you have your E-cores on, raise L2 voltage to 1.35V


----------



## satinghostrider

Ichirou said:


> When I reached the maximum stable I could get my ring to, I noticed that the cores would simply start to struggle beyond that. Weird cases of instability. Raising Vcore and VCCSA didn't seem to help.
> 
> If you have your E-cores on, raise L2 voltage to 1.35V


Mine is set to 1.152V. Anything more seems to make Cinebench R23 unstable. I have ****ty E-cores at 69 rating. But have a pretty good IMC. Sucks...


----------



## Ichirou

satinghostrider said:


> Mine is set to 1.152V. Anything more seems to make Cinebench R23 unstable. I have ****ty E-cores at 69 rating. But have a pretty good IMC. Sucks...


Maybe just don't use them then? Lol 
Or disable half of them.


----------



## spin5000

What sort of CPU test scores are 12600 / 12700 / 12900 K/KF/KS owners getting in the CPU tests in 3DMark Vantage, 3DMark 06, and the current 3D Mark's CPU profile? In some of the tests in 06 and Vantage, I'm getting slower results with my 12900KS than with my previous 11900KF.

I also got a warning upon installation of 3DMark 06 and others saying my CPU doesn't support SSE instructions nor MMX. I never got those pop-ups with 11900KF, 10900K, 9700KF, and 8700K. I created another thread about this. Is my 12900KS damaged?


----------



## Ichirou

spin5000 said:


> What sort of CPU test scores are 12600 / 12700 / 12900 K/KF/KS owners getting in the CPU tests in 3DMark Vantage, 3DMark 06, and the current 3D Mark's CPU profile? In some of the tests in 06 and Vantage, I'm getting slower results with my 12900KS than with my previous 11900KF.
> 
> I also got a warning upon installation of 3DMark 06 and others saying my CPU doesn't support SSE instructions nor MMX. I never got those pop-ups with 11900KF, 10900K, 9700KF, and 8700K. I created another thread about this. Is my 12900KS damaged?


Maybe it's outdated.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

13900k gaming perf is almost the same as 12900kf on bilibili. Not worth to upgrade but will upgrade. 😅


----------



## Ichirou

Thanh Nguyen said:


> 13900k gaming perf is almost the same as 12900kf on bilibili. Not worth to upgrade but will upgrade. 😅


There are already 13900K leaks out?

Nevermind, found it:








Intel Core i9-13900K pre-production sample tested, 10% faster than Core i9-12900K in single-core tests - VideoCardz.com


Intel Core i9-13900K up to 10% faster than i9-12900K in single-core Intel Raptor Lake desktop processor has now been fully reviewed ahead of launch. This sample is obviously not the production unit that will go to market in Q4 this year, but a qualification sample, which is often considered near...




videocardz.com





*TL;DR: Better binned 12900KS with more E-cores.*


----------



## Falkentyne

Ichirou said:


> There are already 13900K leaks out?
> 
> Nevermind, found it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-13900K pre-production sample tested, 10% faster than Core i9-12900K in single-core tests - VideoCardz.com
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-13900K up to 10% faster than i9-12900K in single-core Intel Raptor Lake desktop processor has now been fully reviewed ahead of launch. This sample is obviously not the production unit that will go to market in Q4 this year, but a qualification sample, which is often considered near...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> videocardz.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *TL;DR: Better binned 12900KS with more E-cores.*


I was aware of this. That's why I skipped 12900 Keep Spending edition.


----------



## spin5000

I followed Skatter Bencher's video on getting 5.7 single core overclock however my cores, while being 100% stable at 5.3 GHz all-core, will never go above 5.4 GHz even on a single core load. I went into the TVB options and I raised the downclocks from -1 @ 35 degrees and another -1 at 50 degrees higher and higher. It didn't help. I then changed it to 90 and 95 degrees respectively but no cores will ever go above 5.4 GHz. I have it set to 1 & 2 core loads: 5.7 GHz, 3 & 4 core loads: 5.5 GHz, 5 & 6 core loads, 5.4 GHz, 7 & 8 core loads: 5.3 GHz.

I had this working great with my 11900KF and Gigabyte Aorus Ultra (and then Master) board with my 11900KF going between 5.24 GHz and 5.44 GHz exactly like how I set it. My 12900KS & MSI Edge DDR4 setup seems to be ignoring my settings of 5.7 and 5,5 GHz and won't ever go above 5.4 even on a 1-core load, even if that 1-core load is very cool (eg. 45 deg C).

I know the single-core load is mostly just for benchmarks but A. I have a lot of games where I do see a lot of frequencies above the all-core frequency (when it's working properly), B. on principle, it should be doing what I set it to do.


----------



## Ichirou

spin5000 said:


> I followed Skatter Bencher's video on getting 5.7 single core overclock however my cores, while being 100% stable at 5.3 GHz all-core, will never go above 5.4 GHz even on a single core load. I went into the TVB options and I raised the downclocks from -1 @ 35 degrees and another -1 at 50 degrees higher and higher. It didn't help. I then changed it to 90 and 95 degrees respectively but no cores will ever go above 5.4 GHz. I have it set to 1 & 2 core loads: 5.7 GHz, 3 & 4 core loads: 5.5 GHz, 5 & 6 core loads, 5.4 GHz, 7 & 8 core loads: 5.3 GHz.
> 
> I had this working great with my 11900KF and Gigabyte Aorus Ultra (and then Master) board with my 11900KF going between 5.24 GHz and 5.44 GHz exactly like how I set it. My 12900KS & MSI Edge DDR4 setup seems to be ignoring my settings of 5.7 and 5,5 GHz and won't ever go above 5.4 even on a 1-core load, even if that 1-core load is very cool (eg. 45 deg C).
> 
> I know the single-core load is mostly just for benchmarks but A. I have a lot of games where I do see a lot of frequencies above the all-core frequency (when it's working properly), B. on principle, it should be doing what I set it to do.


User Per Core mode for the MSI Edge. And BCLK overclock it so that it doesn't get AVX2 throttled.

The SkatterBencher guides are misleading; if you look at the HWiNFO readouts, he never hits his proclaimed clocks for any meaningful amount of time.


----------



## spin5000

Ichirou said:


> User Per Core mode for the MSI Edge.


 I don't understand the Per Core overclocking. It looks like it's to limit the cores. For example, on my previous 11900KF and Gigabyte board, I limited two cores to never go above 5.2 GHz no matter what. This is a great feature to limit weaker cores but when I enable this on the MSI board, I can't find how to set the frequency of the core clocks depending on how many cores are loaded (eg. 5.7 GHz 1 core load, 5.5 GHz 4 core load, 5.4 GHz 6 core load, etc.)?



Ichirou said:


> And BCLK overclock it so that it doesn't get AVX2 throttled.


I'm using OCCT with just SSE, no AVX for these tests. Having said that, in order to avoid AVX2 throttling, why resort to BLCK overclocking which can potentially bring about other complications and instabilities due to it overclocking much more than just the CPU, when you can simply set AVX offset to 0 (which I've done, I never run AVX offsets)?



Ichirou said:


> The SkatterBencher guides are misleading; if you look at the HWiNFO readouts, he never hits his proclaimed clocks for any meaningful amount of time.


Not only does SkatterBencher's settings not hit the proclaimed clocks for any meaningful amount of time for me, they don't hit the clocks at all. Even when set to 5.7 GHz 1-2 core loads and 5.5 GHz 3-4 core loads, my system never goes above 5.4 GHz, ever.

SkatterBencher's TVB curve is set to downclock each core ratio by 1 at 35 degrees then another 1 at 50 degrees so I can understand why people don't hit those high clocks (temps) but I kept increasing the TVB curve eventually all the way up to 90 and 95 degrees so, unless my CPU or a specific core is hitting 90 degrees C, it should not downclock. Yet it still won't go past 5.4 GHz even on a 1 core, 1 thread load - that's the weird part. Something else must be interfering.

EDIT: I disabled all the TVB options including TVB itself, I'm finally getting cores going up to 5.5 Ghz now. Weird! However, I still cannot reach 5.7 or even 5.6 GHz even on a 1 core / 1 thread load. There's something else interfering.

EDIT 2: I also disabled Turbo Boost 3.0 but it didn't help.


----------



## Ichirou

spin5000 said:


> I don't understand the Per Core overclocking. It looks like it's to limit the cores. For example, on my previous 11900KF and Gigabyte board, I limited two cores to never go above 5.2 GHz no matter what. This is a great feature to limit weaker cores but when I enable this on the MSI board, I can't find how to set the frequency of the core clocks depending on how many cores are loaded (eg. 5.7 GHz 1 core load, 5.5 GHz 4 core load, 5.4 GHz 6 core load, etc.)?
> 
> I'm using OCCT with just SSE, no AVX for these tests. Having said that, in order to avoid AVX2 throttling, why resort to BLCK overclocking which can potentially bring about other complications and instabilities due to it overclocking much more than just the CPU, when you can simply set AVX offset to 0 (which I've done, I never run AVX offsets)?
> 
> 
> 
> Not only does SkatterBencher's settings not hit the proclaimed clocks for any meaningful amount of time for me, they don't hit the clocks at all. Even when set to 5.7 GHz 1-2 core loads and 5.5 GHz 3-4 core loads, my system never goes above 5.4 GHz, ever.
> 
> SkatterBencher's TVB curve is set to downclock each core ratio by 1 at 35 degrees then another 1 at 50 degrees so I can understand why people don't hit those high clocks (temps) but I kept increasing the TVB curve eventually all the way up to 90 and 95 degrees so, unless my CPU or a specific core is hitting 90 degrees C, it should not downclock. Yet it still won't go past 5.4 GHz even on a 1 core, 1 thread load - that's the weird part. Something else must be interfering.
> 
> EDIT: I disabled all the TVB options including TVB itself, I'm finally getting cores going up to 5.5 Ghz now. Weird! However, I still cannot reach 5.7 or even 5.6 GHz even on a 1 core / 1 thread load. There's something else interfering.
> 
> EDIT 2: I also disabled Turbo Boost 3.0 but it didn't help.


Per Core forces each core to constantly run at your set clocks no matter what. There's no turbo involved. It's _always_ at those clocks.

AVX offset set to 0 doesn't override Intel's forced 51x AVX2 downclocking. It's stupid, I know. It's fixed on ASUS boards, but on MSI boards, you need to BCLK overclock over it.
(This takes precedence over Per Core mode as well.)


----------



## spin5000

Ichirou said:


> Per Core forces each core to constantly run at your set clocks no matter what. There's no turbo involved. It's _always_ at those clocks.


I'm not sure I understand. How can I make 1-2 core loads clock at 5.7 GHz, 3-4 core loads at 5.5 GHz, etc. etc. using this method? If I I'm understanding correctly, this will set a particular core (eg. core 2) to a specific frequency regardless of whether there's a 1 core load, 4 core load, etc. What's the point of that? I don't see how that will accomplish anything or help me with my problem of my cores not up-clocking properly...



Ichirou said:


> AVX offset set to 0 doesn't override Intel's forced 51x AVX2 downclocking. It's stupid, I know. It's fixed on ASUS boards, but on MSI boards, you need to BCLK overclock over it.
> (This takes precedence over Per Core mode as well.)


This doesn't apply to me with my MSI Z690 12900KS setup nor my Z590 Gigabyte 11900KF setup. I'm literally stress-testing OCCT set to AVX2 on all 8 c / 16 t at 5.3 GHz right now as I'm typing this. Frequencies never budge below 5.3 GHz (which is what I have my all-core frequency set to). Where did you get this info from?


----------



## Ichirou

spin5000 said:


> I'm not sure I understand. How can I make 1-2 core loads clock at 5.7 GHz, 3-4 core loads at 5.5 GHz, etc. etc. using this method? If I I'm understanding correctly, this will set a particular core (eg. core 2) to a specific frequency regardless of whether there's a 1 core load, 4 core load, etc. What's the point of that? I don't see how that will accomplish anything or help me with my problem of my cores not up-clocking properly...
> 
> This doesn't apply to me with my MSI Z690 12900KS setup nor my Z590 Gigabyte 11900KF setup. I'm literally stress-testing OCCT set to AVX2 on all 8 c / 16 t at 5.3 GHz right now as I'm typing this. Frequencies never budge below 5.3 GHz (which is what I have my all-core frequency set to). Where did you get this info from?


I'm on the MSI Edge as well. In my personal experience testing in y-cruncher, I get clocked down to 51x unless I BCLK overclock. Perhaps a newer BIOS has corrected that.
BCLK overclocking is safe so long as you pull down the multipliers to the cores, ring, and memory. Equates to the same results.

Per Core mode will allow you to consistently run above 5.5 GHz. All other modes are inconsistent. That is why I'm suggesting it.


----------



## spin5000

Ichirou said:


> I'm on the MSI Edge as well. In my personal experience testing in y-cruncher, I get clocked down to 51x unless I BCLK overclock. Perhaps a newer BIOS has corrected that.
> BCLK overclocking is safe so long as you pull down the multipliers to the cores, ring, and memory. Equates to the same results.


Unless something has changed, BCLK overclocking can also affect GPU's PCI-E, M.2 drives, and who knows what else.

I've never experienced this AVX2 downclocking with a 10900K, 11900KF, and 12900KS on 2 different brands of motherboards (Gigabyte and MSI) and 4 different motherboard models and probably 7 - 10 BIOS versions between them _as long as AVX / AVX2 offset is set to 0_. If it's still happening after setting offset to 0, then I'm guessing it's down to some other setting like Turbo 3.0, TVB, power limits, temp limits, etc.



Ichirou said:


> Per Core mode will allow you to consistently run above 5.5 GHz. All other modes are inconsistent. That is why I'm suggesting it.


You mean consistently run 5.5 GHz on all cores during an all-core load? Impossible for me. All-core loads, 5.3 GHz is my limit (with reasonable voltages) or else I'm unstable. I'm looking to run 1-2 core loads @ 5.7 GHz, 3-4 core loads @ 5.5 GHz, 5-6 core-loads @ 5.4 GHz, and 7-8 core-loads @ 5.3 GHz. If I set my cores to run @ 5.7 GHz or 5.5 GHz all-core, the CPU would probably melt, lol. You probably need sub-zero cooling to run a 12900KS stable @ 5.7 GHz on all cores during an all-core load, lol. Maybe I'm not understanding you.


----------



## Ichirou

spin5000 said:


> Unless something has changed, BCLK overclocking can also affect GPU's PCI-E, M.2 drives, and who knows what else. Like I said, I've never experienced this AVX2 downclocking with a 10900K, 11900KF, and 12900KS on 2 different brands of motherboards (Gigabyte and MSI) and 4 different motherboards and probably 7 - 10 BIOS between them. As long as you have AVX / AVX2 offset set to 0, your system shouldn't downclock during AVX2 loads. If it is, then it's not because AVX2 is detected but most likely down to some other setting like Turbo 3.0, TVB, power limits, temp limits, etc. crap.
> 
> You mean consistently run 5.5 GHz on all cores during an all-core load? All-core loads, I 5.3 GHz is my limit (with reasonable voltages) or else I'm unstable. So how can I run consistently more than 5.3 GHz using all-core. I'm not sure I'm understanding. As I mentioned earlier, I'm looking to run 1-2 core loads clock @ 5.7 GHz, 3-4 core loads @ 5.5 GHz, 5-6 core-loads @ 5.4 GHz, and 7-8 core-loads @ 5.3 GHz. If I set my cores to run @ 5.7 GHz or 5.5 GHz all-core, the CPU would probably melt, lol. You probably need sub-zero cooling to run a 12900KS stable @ 5.7 GHz on all cores during an all-core load, lol. Maybe I'm not understanding you.











Intel is reportedly disabling AVX-512 instruction set on Alder Lake CPUs


When Intel introduced the Intel 12th Gen Core/Alder Lake desktop processors to the public, the chipmaker never mentioned its products would support the AVX-512 instruction set. However,...




www.techspot.com






> Intel 12th-Gen Core processors will most likely employ the AVX2 instruction set as an alternative. Unlike AVX-512, Intel limits AVX2 to a maximum frequency of 5.1GHz regardless of power limits, BIOS settings, and thermal headroom, limiting the maximum performance it can offer. Intel never explained AVX2's limitations, but we believe they may be an attempt to prevent hardware degradation.


But anyhow, you can set one or two cores to 5.7 GHz if you wish. I'm not telling you to do all-core. Just Per Core. That's literally a specific multiplier per core.
You can do something crazy like 53/54/53/56/52/57/53/54, and in that exact order.

Try y-cruncher and let me know if it clocks you down to 51x or not. I'm curious now.


----------



## spin5000

Ichirou said:


> Intel is reportedly disabling AVX-512 instruction set on Alder Lake CPUs
> 
> 
> When Intel introduced the Intel 12th Gen Core/Alder Lake desktop processors to the public, the chipmaker never mentioned its products would support the AVX-512 instruction set. However,...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.techspot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Try y-cruncher and let me know if it clocks you down to 51x or not. I'm curious now.


Thanks for that, I wonder if that's just speculation or fact or maybe Intel was just considering it but didn't go through with it? I've tried OCCT large and medium FFTs w/ AVX2 enabled. 5.3 GHz for 1 hour straight each test, no fluctuation.



Ichirou said:


> But anyhow, you can set one or two cores to 5.7 GHz if you wish. I'm not telling you to do all-core. Just Per Core. That's literally a specific multiplier per core.
> You can do something crazy like 53/54/53/56/52/57/53/54, and in that exact order.


Right but, if I'm understanding this per-core setting, it simply sets a specific core to a specific multiplier no matter what. Therefore those cores will boost to those frequencies even during an all-core load which is crazy. My CPU can't boost to 5.7 GHz with all 8 cores loaded, even with just 2 or 3 of the cores at 5.7 GHz...I highly, highly doubt it. Let's say I'm stable at an all-core load, all-core OC of 5.3 GHz, or let's say I may be able to squeeze a few good cores to 5.4 GHz (and the rest at 5.3 GHz) during an all-core load, how is this going to help achieve 1-2 core loads at, for example, 5.7 GHz?

This is a good setting if you want to limit some weaker cores so that they don't clock too high. For example, let's say I can get away with a 1 and 2 core load of 5.8 GHz, and a 2 and 3 core load of 5.6 GHz but I know that cores 0,1, and 2 crash above 5.5 GHz (even on just a 1-core load, all three of those cores are weak and will crash above 5.5 GHz), then I can set those three cores to 5.5 GHz while the remaining 5 cores are free to boost to the maximum boost set. I can see this setting being used for that. I did the same with my 11900KF and Gigabyte board. I had it set to 6-8 core loads of 5.2 GHz, 4-5 core loads @ 5.3 GHz, and 1-3 core loads @ 5,4 GHz. I then also set a 5.2 GHz limit for two of the weaker cores (can't remember which ones) so that even during a 1-3 core load where the clocks of the loaded cores should go to 5.4 GHz, those two specific weaker cores would still never go above 5.2 GHz (but the remaining cores would boost to the 5.4 of course).


EDIT: Maybe I'm being misunderstood. When I say 5.7 GHz for 1-2 core loads, I don't mean I want cores 1 and 2 to be at 5.7 Ghz. What I mean is, when the CPU has only 1 or 2 cores loaded (regardless which core it is) - like for example in a single core benchmark - I'd like those particular cores (regardless which one) to go to 5.7 GHz.

EDIT 2: Just ran Y-Cruncher. 5.3 GHz all cores.


----------



## Ichirou

spin5000 said:


> Thanks for that, I wonder if that's just speculation or fact or maybe Intel was just considering it but didn't go through with it? I've tried OCCT large and medium FFTs w/ AVX2 enabled. 5.3 GHz for 1 hour straight each test, no fluctuation.
> 
> Right but, if I'm understanding this per-core setting, it simply sets a specific core to a specific multiplier no matter what. Therefore those cores will boost to those frequencies even during an all-core load which is crazy. My CPU can't boost to 5.7 GHz with all 8 cores loaded, even with just 2 or 3 of the cores at 5.7 GHz...I highly, highly doubt it. Let's say I'm stable at an all-core load, all-core OC of 5.3 GHz, or let's say I may be able to squeeze a few good cores to 5.4 GHz (and the rest at 5.3 GHz) during an all-core load, how is this going to help achieve 1-2 core loads at, for example, 5.7 GHz?
> 
> This is a good setting if you want to limit some weaker cores so that they don't clock too high. For example, let's say I can get away with a 1 and 2 core load of 5.8 GHz, and a 2 and 3 core load of 5.6 GHz but I know that cores 0,1, and 2 crash above 5.5 GHz (even on just a 1-core load, all three of those cores are weak and will crash above 5.5 GHz), then I can set those three cores to 5.5 GHz while the remaining 5 cores are free to boost to the maximum boost set. I can see this setting being used for that. I did the same with my 11900KF and Gigabyte board. I had it set to 6-8 core loads of 5.2 GHz, 4-5 core loads @ 5.3 GHz, and 1-3 core loads @ 5,4 GHz. I then also set a 5.2 GHz limit for two of the weaker cores (can't remember which ones) so that even during a 1-3 core load where the clocks of the loaded cores should go to 5.4 GHz, those two specific weaker cores would still never go above 5.2 GHz (but the remaining cores would boost to the 5.4 of course).
> 
> 
> EDIT: Maybe I'm being misunderstood. When I say 5.7 GHz for 1-2 core loads, I don't mean I want cores 1 and 2 to be at 5.7 Ghz. What I mean is, when the CPU has only 1 or 2 cores loaded (regardless which core it is) - like for example in a single core benchmark - I'd like those particular cores (regardless which one) to go to 5.7 GHz.
> 
> EDIT 2: Just ran Y-Cruncher. 5.3 GHz all cores.


OCCT isn't actually that great in general. Pales in comparison to y-cruncher for the CPU and TM5 anta777 for RAM.

But yeah, I get what you want now. During single-core loads, you want 5.7 GHz on one core, and something low for the rest, maybe like 5.0-5.2 GHz or something.
But in multicore loads, you want something like 5.3-5.5 GHz all-core.

Can't really help you out then. Per Core's the only mode I know for full control over my PC. Turbo Mode kind of works, but also suffers from a similar issue as yours in my testing.


----------



## spin5000

Ichirou said:


> OCCT isn't actually that great in general. Pales in comparison to y-cruncher for the CPU and TM5 anta777 for RAM.


I like OCCT for CPU testing because you can set the tests to a 1 core load, 2 core load, etc. You can also set the exact cores you want loaded for those tests or if you want it to continuously change cores. So you can set it to run a 2-core load, and then set it to only run that 2-core load on, say, cores 3 and 7 if you'd like. Or you can have it automatically change the cores throughout the 2-core-load test. It's pretty awesome for finding max overclocks at different core-loads, as well as max overclocks for each core (ie. finding weaker and stronger cores). If you set it to extreme (instead of normal) and small FFTs, it can detect errors, or crash your system very quickly. I also like how you can set it to SSE, AVX, AVX2, AVX-512 (if CPU supports it), or auto which does all, and also set it to small, medium, or large FFTs. Y-Cruncher, TM5 anta777 & Usmus, and Linpack Xtreme are awesome 

*If it wasn't for OCCT*, I probably would never have been able to fine tune my 11900KF to run 7-8 core-loads @ 5.2 GHz, 3-6 core-loads @ 5.3 GHz, 1-2 core-loads @ 5.4 GHz, along with also limiting cores 4 and 5 (the weakest) to 5.2 (ie. they'll never go above 5.2 GHz even on a 1-core load).



Ichirou said:


> But yeah, I get what you want now. During single-core loads, you want 5.7 GHz on one core, and something low for the rest, maybe like 5.0-5.2 GHz or something.
> But in multicore loads, you want something like 5.3-5.5 GHz all-core.
> 
> Can't really help you out then. Per Core's the only mode I know for full control over my PC. Turbo Mode kind of works, but also suffers from a similar issue as yours in my testing.


MSI's per-core implementation doesn't seem to make sense unless it can also be used in combination with different core frequencies depending on the amount of cores loaded... and it doesn't seem like MSI is able to do that unfortunately which is pretty sad. I thought that was a pretty basic feature nowadays.

I'll give you an example of what I mean:








In the above picture, you can see I have different CPU core multipliers depending on the load. You can see (left column) that I have 1-2 core loads @ 5.4 GHz, 3-6 core loads @ 5.3 GHz, and 7-8 core (ie. all-core) loads @ 5.2 GHz.








The above picture shows that I have limited cores 4 and 5 to 5.2 GHz because they are weaker cores that I couldn't get stable over 5.2 GHz regardless if it's an all-core load, 5 core load, or even a single core load, cores 4 and 5 will never go above 5.2 GHz while the rest are free up to 5.4 GHz (since that's the highest any core will ever run since my 1-3 core loads are set to 5.4 GHz).

With the MSI Edge DDR4, I'm trying to do what I've done in picture 1, set the amount of cores used depending on the amount of core load (or "active" as Gigabyte calls it). Intel does this stock with the 12900KS as, I'm sure we all know, it's default boost during a 1-core load is 5.5 GHz (if all it's dumb boost algorithms allow it depending on temperature, current, etc.). Then, upon further testing of each individual core, I'd like to limit any weaker cores that I may find like I've done in picture 2. Right now, I'm not even concerned with pic 2 (limiting weaker cores), I'm just trying to do what I did in pic 1: specifying frequency depending on cores loaded (or "active").


----------



## Ichirou

spin5000 said:


> I like OCCT for CPU testing because you can set the tests to a 1 core load, 2 core load, etc. You can also set the exact cores you want loaded for those tests or if you want it to continuously change cores. So you can set it to run a 2-core load, and then set it to only run that 2-core load on, say, cores 3 and 7 if you'd like. Or you can have it automatically change the cores throughout the 2-core-load test. It's pretty awesome for finding max overclocks at different core-loads, as well as max overclocks for each core (ie. finding weaker and stronger cores). If you set it to extreme (instead of normal) and small FFTs, it can detect errors, or crash your system very quickly. I also like how you can set it to SSE, AVX, AVX2, AVX-512 (if CPU supports it), or auto which does all, and also set it to small, medium, or large FFTs. Y-Cruncher, TM5 anta777 & Usmus, and Linpack Xtreme are awesome
> 
> *If it wasn't for OCCT*, I probably would never have been able to fine tune my 11900KF to run 7-8 core-loads @ 5.2 GHz, 3-6 core-loads @ 5.3 GHz, 1-2 core-loads @ 5.4 GHz, along with also limiting cores 4 and 5 (the weakest) to 5.2 (ie. they'll never go above 5.2 GHz even on a 1-core load).
> 
> MSI's per-core implementation doesn't seem to make sense unless it can also be used in combination with different core frequencies depending on the amount of cores loaded... and it doesn't seem like MSI is able to do that unfortunately which is pretty sad. I thought that was a pretty basic feature nowadays.
> 
> I'll give you an example of what I mean:
> View attachment 2566885
> 
> In the above picture, you can see I have different CPU core multipliers depending on the load. You can see (left column) that I have 1-2 core loads @ 5.4 GHz, 3-6 core loads @ 5.3 GHz, and 7-8 core (ie. all-core) loads @ 5.2 GHz.
> View attachment 2566886
> 
> The above picture shows that I have limited cores 4 and 5 to 5.2 GHz because they are weaker cores that I couldn't get stable over 5.2 GHz regardless if it's an all-core load, 5 core load, or even a single core load, cores 4 and 5 will never go above 5.2 GHz while the rest are free up to 5.4 GHz (since that's the highest any core will ever run since my 1-3 core loads are set to 5.4 GHz).
> 
> With the MSI Edge DDR4, I'm trying to do what I've done in picture 1, set the amount of cores used depending on the amount of core load (or "active" as Gigabyte calls it). Intel does this stock with the 12900KS as, I'm sure we all know, it's default boost during a 1-core load is 5.5 GHz (if all it's dumb boost algorithms allow it depending on temperature, current, etc.). Then, upon further testing of each individual core, I'd like to limit any weaker cores that I may find like I've done in picture 2. Right now, I'm not even concerned with pic 2 (limiting weaker cores), I'm just trying to do what I did in pic 1: specifying frequency depending on cores loaded (or "active").


Yeah, that's Turbo Mode on MSI boards. Does the same thing. 

There is no need for limiting cores to specific maximum frequencies, since as of Z690, the CPUs already internally know which cores are the best to worst. At least, according to Intel VIDs...


----------



## Nelfhunt

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Intel Core i9-13900K Raptor Lake 5.5 GHz CPU Benchmarks Leak Out: 10% Faster Than Core i9-12900K In Single-Core & A Massive 35% Gain In Multi-Threaded Tests
> 
> 
> Intel Core i9-13900K Raptor Lake CPU at 5.5 GHz offers a huge performance increase over its predecessor, the 12900K in leaked benchmarks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wccftech.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "At the same clocks, the Raptor Lake chip offers virtually no performance improvement which means that the Raptor Cove cores aren't delivering any architectural IPC uplifts and the main performance benefits come from the higher clock speeds and increased cache layout. "


Well, I am sorry. If this is true, you were right about it.


----------



## centvalny

Sp98 KS 7G R20


----------



## BigHilo

A question to the MSI users out there ... How can I read the stock VID of my 12900KF?
After years of Asus and Gigabyte boards, I'm running my CPU on an MSI Z690I Unfiy (ITX).

From what I know (which, granted, is not that much ;-)), it _should_ be possible to see (frequency dependent) requested VID of the CPU in HWInfo64 by setting:
1. Voltage Override
2. AC Loadline = DC Loadline = 1
3. C-States off
4. TVBO off

Alas, HWInfo64 keeps on showing the (approximate) override voltage I set in the UEFI ...
E.g. UEFI 1.2V override voltage => constant HWInfo64 1.19V VID regardless of frequency or current load.
(At the same time, the Nuvoton NCT6687D 'VCore' sensor behaves as expected and shows the expected VDroop under load).

Anybody got an idea or a hint what I might be doing wrong ?


----------



## digitalfrost

BigHilo said:


> A question to the MSI users out there











MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4/WIFI Owners Thread


Well I am done trying to help,you will not even try anything I suggested,well good luck As if you've even begun to help in the first place. If someone with a fktone of posts says there's a bug, then proceeds to list an affecting, SPECIFIC setting, then you'd best assume first thing he'd done...




www.overclock.net





I think you should be using Adaptive Voltage instead.


----------



## BigHilo

digitalfrost said:


> MSI PRO Z690-A DDR4/WIFI Owners Thread
> 
> 
> Well I am done trying to help,you will not even try anything I suggested,well good luck As if you've even begun to help in the first place. If someone with a fktone of posts says there's a bug, then proceeds to list an affecting, SPECIFIC setting, then you'd best assume first thing he'd done...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you should be using Adaptive Voltage instead.


Thx a lot! That was a shove in the right direction.  ... and I was able to confirm what my overclocking tries suggested - six below average P-Cores with about 1.36V P0 VID at 5.2 GHz and two total brick cores with 1.42V VID at 5.2 GHz. Judging from other people's screenshots this would be about SP80 for the P-Cores. -.-


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Looks like my CPU is no longer stable at 5.6.

Before it was passing 3x 30min Cinebench runs R23 without sweat and now it fails even in a single test almost right away.

I suppose it's due to the heatwave... 30c ambient in the room.


----------



## z390e

hmm hope its not degradation @TheNaitsyrk


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

z390e said:


> hmm hope its not degradation @TheNaitsyrk


I don't think it is. It was running 1.35V during stress tests, and I barely turned the PC on since my posting spree here. Very weird.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Looks like my CPU is no longer stable at 5.6.
> 
> Before it was passing 3x 30min Cinebench runs R23 without sweat and now it fails even in a single test almost right away.
> 
> I suppose it's due to the heatwave... 30c ambient in the room.





TheNaitsyrk said:


> I don't think it is. It was running 1.35V during stress tests, and I barely turned the PC on since my posting spree here. Very weird.


Sounds like thermals then.

Have you ever bothered to stabilize y-cruncher with it?
If not, that's what game stable does to you.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> Sounds like thermals then.
> 
> Have you ever bothered to stabilize y-cruncher with it?
> If not, that's what game stable does to you.


I avoid that because yours degraded.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Okay, I let PC sit in a room with an open window overnight.

My the OC is stable again as night was a little colder although temps are very similar.

About 80c average on P cores
About 58C average on E cores

Voltage at this time 1.376V according to CPU-Z and HWInfo.

It's set to LLC6 1.463V (turns into 1.376V).

Wattage 344W.

Ambient in the room: 25c.

Runs the 30 min test no problem, but yesterday it would fail in the first 5 seconds of the test hmm

EDIT: Failed after 10 min but event viewer said to update firmware CPU speed was being limited or something.

Updated to 1603 from 1403 and so far it runs okay.

Average temps 71c for the entire chip (E-cores and P-Cores combined).


----------



## acoustic

344W continuous load and high core temps is enough to cause degradation. Limiting to 1.35v doesn't mean you were safe. 80c on the P cores doesn't sound too bad, but then again no one really knows where the walls are with the Intel 7 node.

I'd guess it was likely the higher ambient. Slightly higher temps could have caused you to require another click up of vCore


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

acoustic said:


> 344W continuous load and high core temps is enough to cause degradation. Limiting to 1.35v doesn't mean you were safe. 80c on the P cores doesn't sound too bad, but then again no one really knows where the walls are with the Intel 7 node.
> 
> I'd guess it was likely the higher ambient. Slightly higher temps could have caused you to require another click up of vCore


It definitely must've been temps. I don't think voltage degrades much if at all, as long as you keep the chip cool. 

When I game at 5.6 Ghz max temp of the CPU is 40c in e.g. Elden Ring.

Also, PC was mostly off, I don't use it often for it to degrade like this. I will keep testing.

Ichirou chip degraded due to temps I believe.


----------



## acoustic

It's not one or the other. It's a combination of voltage, wattage, and temperature. One without the others is typically fine, outside of extremes.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

acoustic said:


> It's not one or the other. It's a combination of voltage, wattage, and temperature. One without the others is typically fine, outside of extremes.


The fact that it runs after BIOS update, indicates it's not degraded because as I said, PC was not on for a month.


----------



## acoustic

TheNaitsyrk said:


> The fact that it runs after BIOS update, indicates it's not degraded because as I said, PC was not on for a month.


Your claim that Ichirou degraded his chip due to "voltage" is incorrect. It's a combination of wattage, voltage, and temps. He's said himself he was pushing Y-Cruncher (high wattage) while running upper limits of vCore combined with high core temps.

I'm not saying your chip degraded, but I am saying it's possible at 344W if other elements are also high, such as core temperatures.

It's important to know what factors can cause it in order to avoid it.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> What combination? PC was not on. How can something degrade whilst off?
> 
> Before this I ran 10980XE 5.1Ghzx 1.34V and it was eating 650W, nothing degraded. Ran it for 2 years on X299 Dark.
> 
> There are people here who ran 12900K / S at 450W+ and nothing degraded also.


None of those people ran that at 95C+ for hours nonstop


----------



## Zarok77

12900kf SP102 and SP115 for P-cores only


----------



## acoustic

Zarok77 said:


> 12900kf SP102 and SP115 for P-cores only


What batch is this chip? Curious if it was produced after the KS release or if you found a gem


----------



## Zarok77

acoustic said:


> What batch is this chip? Curious if it was produced after the KS release or if you found a gem


Forgot to read the batch n. Will post it after removing the cooler.

was purchased prior KS 👍


----------



## acoustic

Zarok77 said:


> Forgot to read the batch n. Will post it after removing the cooler.
> 
> was purchased prior KS 👍


Gotcha! Nice chip, enjoy it


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

If it's to any interest to anybody:

5.5Ghz OC doesn't hold also, but that's because:

28c ambient room temp in my tiny room with no good ventilation.

As soon as I put portable AC in the room, 5.6Ghz became stable again.

However, 5.6Ghz would be stable in games like no problem with old settings.

Looks like KS is very sensitive to temps as someone mentioned before, even 5C matters.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

TheNaitsyrk said:


> If it's to any interest to anybody:
> 
> 5.5Ghz OC doesn't hold also, but that's because:
> 
> 28c ambient room temp in my tiny room with no good ventilation.
> 
> As soon as I put portable AC in the room, 5.6Ghz became stable again.
> 
> However, 5.6Ghz would be stable in games like no problem with old settings.
> 
> Looks like KS is very sensitive to temps as someone mentioned before, even 5C matters.


Even my massive cooler that's best case scenario won't push it below 80c (where it's stable).

Perhaps it's worth looking into chillers, or just accept the fact that during summer I need to dial down OC.


----------



## Kashtan

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Just go overkill on cooling like me problem solved
> 
> My P104 SP94 chip will also be direct die
> My P105 SP96 chip already under direct die
> View attachment 2563603


What is fans in your`s rig?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Kashtan said:


> What is fans in your`s rig?


I have 42x Noctua Industrial 3000RPM 120mm and 2x Noctua Industrial 3000RPM 140mm and 3x Noctua 5000RPM 40mm for RAM cooling.


----------



## postem

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I have 42x Noctua Industrial 3000RPM 120mm and 2x Noctua Industrial 3000RPM 140mm and 3x Noctua 5000RPM 40mm for RAM cooling.
> View attachment 2567313
> View attachment 2567316
> View attachment 2567317
> 
> View attachment 2567315
> 
> View attachment 2567314


If you had all the hassle to make such gigantic radiator (no criticism i find it awesome), why you didnt just get a water chiller or even a phase cooler? It would certainly net better results, going sub room temps.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

postem said:


> If you had all the hassle to make such gigantic radiator (no criticism i find it awesome), why you didnt just get a water chiller or even a phase cooler? It would certainly net better results, going sub room temps.


I don't want to kill my hardware with condensation thank you very much. Don't say that I can control it, one slip up and it's all dead. Although tempted to get it for short bursts with quick connects.


----------



## postem

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I don't want to kill my hardware with condensation thank you very much. Don't say that I can control it, one slip up and it's all dead. Although tempted to get it for short bursts with quick connects.


Yes I get your point I stayed 4 years on noctua due to even fear with WC. Anyway you can use a chiller and let it run at 20c, it wouldn't condensate, I was suggesting sub room temps and not subzero or near zero


----------



## chentj1988

Omg are we still in the degradation topic after 2 weeks 😅 It is summer now and welcome to South East Asia OC season. It is 30C whole year here. Chill…


----------



## postem

chentj1988 said:


> Omg are we still in the degradation topic after 2 weeks 😅 It is summer now and welcome to South East Asia OC season. It is 30C whole year here. Chill…


I guess i can call that lucky here in BRA summer is around 40


----------



## Kashtan

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I have 42x Noctua Industrial 3000RPM 120mm and 2x Noctua Industrial 3000RPM 140mm and 3x Noctua 5000RPM 40mm for RAM cooling.
> View attachment 2567313
> View attachment 2567316
> View attachment 2567317
> 
> View attachment 2567315
> 
> View attachment 2567314


Nice work.
Any info about delta temps on CPU and GPU? 1 degrees?


----------



## z390e

@PLATOON TEKK had a writeup in one of the threads about all the Koolance chillers he has in his house and IIR he stated that managing dew point was his biggest challenge.


----------



## yzonker

Well unless you live in a swamp, you don't need to go anywhere near the dew point with a chiller to beat an infinite number of radiators. I paid $500 for the 1/4hp chiller I have which isn't much, if any, more than a large external rad with fans and other accessories. I use it for gaming occasionally. It's kinda fun to play games at 500w with the core at 30C.


----------



## chentj1988

postem said:


> I guess i can call that lucky here in BRA summer is around 40


Well at least you gonna  during winter.


----------



## ViTosS

Intel 12900K Delid and Direct Die Cooling with EKWB – Update! - KitGuru


Since our first EKWB direct die cooling video was published a few months ago, EK and ourselves have




www.kitguru.net


----------



## Ichirou

ViTosS said:


> Intel 12900K Delid and Direct Die Cooling with EKWB – Update! - KitGuru
> 
> 
> Since our first EKWB direct die cooling video was published a few months ago, EK and ourselves have
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.kitguru.net


About time... Took them FOREVER.

So, I'm a bit confused here. Did EK make the direct die frame proprietary or something?
Does the "EK-Quantum Velocity² Direct Die – 1700 Upgrade Kit" work with any waterblock, or strictly theirs?



https://www.kitguru.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/P1004676-copy.jpg


----------



## z390e

yzonker said:


> Well unless you live in a swamp, you don't need to go anywhere near the dew point with a chiller to beat an infinite number of radiators. I paid $500 for the 1/4hp chiller I have which isn't much, if any, more than a large external rad with fans and other accessories. I use it for gaming occasionally. It's kinda fun to play games at 500w with the core at 30C.


why not both???


----------



## Nizzen

Ichirou said:


> About time... Took them FOREVER.
> 
> So, I'm a bit confused here. Did EK make the direct die frame proprietary or something?
> Does the "EK-Quantum Velocity² Direct Die – 1700 Upgrade Kit" work with any waterblock, or strictly theirs?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.kitguru.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/P1004676-copy.jpg


LoL, available after 12 series is eol  

Supercool ftw


----------



## yzonker

z390e said:


> why not both???


I have both actually. I just set my fan curves to stop the fans at 23C so the rads are not working against the chiller when the water goes sub ambient.


----------



## sugi0lover

ran Linx 10 Cycles with A/C Max on.
Hwinfo was on after Linx for higher Gflops.

12900K (SP103, Direct-Die) : all cores P 5.5Ghz, E 4.3Ghz, Cache 4.3Ghz
Ram : 7200Mhz-30-41-40-28-310-2T
MB : Z690 Apex

Personally, Gflops over 900 is very satisfactory^^


----------



## Ichirou

Nizzen said:


> LoL, available after 12 series is eol
> 
> Supercool ftw


It'll probably work for the 13th Gen as well, assuming Intel adopts the same dimensions and design of the 12th Gen.
At least EK's faster than RockIt Cool right now, and has more consistent manufacturing.

The only question is: Why is EK is trying to make it proprietary? The direct die frame itself doesn't look like it's proprietary.

Can anyone clue in as to whether the frame could be made universal to any waterblock?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Anyone could tell me which chiller would be best?

I was looking at AlphaCool one with 9L tank and built in pump.


----------



## SuperMumrik

Ichirou said:


> Can anyone clue in as to whether the frame could be made universal to any waterblock?


The only way this could be universal is if the die are "above/or taller" then the frame. 
Seems to me that you'll need to sand it down to make it universal and that's a really douche move from EK.

Supercool computer FTW!


----------



## warbucks

Ichirou said:


> It'll probably work for the 13th Gen as well, assuming Intel adopts the same dimensions and design of the 12th Gen.
> At least EK's faster than RockIt Cool right now, and has more consistent manufacturing.
> 
> The only question is: Why is EK is trying to make it proprietary? The direct die frame itself doesn't look like it's proprietary.
> 
> Can anyone clue in as to whether the frame could be made universal to any waterblock?


The die size of raptor lake will most definitely change in size given they're adding eight additional e-cores.


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> It'll probably work for the 13th Gen as well, assuming Intel adopts the same dimensions and design of the 12th Gen.
> At least EK's faster than RockIt Cool right now, and has more consistent manufacturing.
> 
> The only question is: Why is EK is trying to make it proprietary? The direct die frame itself doesn't look like it's proprietary.
> 
> Can anyone clue in as to whether the frame could be made universal to any waterblock?


Has to be custom waterblock like that because SMD is height of die. I suppose you could "dremel/cnc" notches into your own block if you are adventurous.

time stamp 10:40 and 15:08


----------



## Ichirou

bscool said:


> Has to be custom waterblock like that because SMD is height of die. I suppose you could "dremel/cnc" notches into your own block if you are adventurous.
> 
> time stamp 10:40 and 15:08


So due to the design of the CPU itself, the frame needs to be at a higher height than the CPU die (to avoid touching the other parts), which means you'd have to factor in that height increase by designing a water block with a base that sinks inwards?

Sounds like it'll be impossible for anyone to direct die ADL with a waterblock that isn't Supercool or EK, then...


----------



## yzonker

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Anyone could tell me which chiller would be best?
> 
> I was looking at AlphaCool one with 9L tank and built in pump.


@PLATOON TEKK is the person to ask. Super helpful and always willing to talk about chillers. My guess is the Koolance chillers are the best since that's what he uses. lol Literally has the entire house plumbed for water cooling with several of those in the basement. They're spendy though which is why I don't have one.

If you are looking at this one,









Alphacool Eiszeit 2000 Chiller - black


The Alphacool “Eiszeit” is a compressor cooler with a maximum cooling power of 1500W. Unlike most so-called Chillers or circulating coolers, the Eiszeit has a high-performance integrated pump. Highlights Integrated pump with...




www.aquatuning.co.uk





Definitely don't want it as the page states,

*"The temperature can NOT be set below 20 ° C. "*

That would completely take you out of sub ambient benching unless you just have no interest in that (unless you hotwire it to run continuously at least). I have this one, but not necessarily because it's the best. Just affordable and easily purchased,



Amazon.com


----------



## yzonker

Oh and look what showed up at my door. I know it's kinda late in the game for 12th gen, but hopefully I can swap to a 13900k next year if I want to.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

yzonker said:


> @PLATOON TEKK is the person to ask. Super helpful and always willing to talk about chillers. My guess is the Koolance chillers are the best since that's what he uses. lol Literally has the entire house plumbed for water cooling with several of those in the basement. They're spendy though which is why I don't have one.
> 
> If you are looking at this one,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alphacool Eiszeit 2000 Chiller - black
> 
> 
> The Alphacool “Eiszeit” is a compressor cooler with a maximum cooling power of 1500W. Unlike most so-called Chillers or circulating coolers, the Eiszeit has a high-performance integrated pump. Highlights Integrated pump with...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aquatuning.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely don't want it as the page states,
> 
> *"The temperature can NOT be set below 20 ° C. "*
> 
> That would completely take you out of sub ambient benching unless you just have no interest in that (unless you hotwire it to run continuously at least). I have this one, but not necessarily because it's the best. Just affordable and easily purchased,
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com


In UK sadly.

I don't think I can get Koolance one in UK.

Also, I fixed my OC in the heatwave.

Had to raise max temp in BIOS to 105 for tests to pass.

I wouldn't run Cinebench now for long periods though due to heat. Games and standard work only.


----------



## acoustic

What case @yzonker ?


----------



## yzonker

acoustic said:


> What case @yzonker ?


Phantecs Evo Pro 2. Seems like it'll work for what I want. I've been cramped up in an old mid-tower for a long time (Corsair 450d).


----------



## acoustic

I'm thinking about ditching my 011 XL for the Pro 2. Lian Li has been a no-show with zero updates on the V3000+


----------



## Alberto_It

yzonker said:


> Oh and look what showed up at my door. I know it's kinda late in the game for 12th gen, but hopefully I can swap to a 13900k next year if I want to.
> 
> View attachment 2567412


Finding an Evga Z690 Dark in Europe is like finding a unicorn


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Alberto_It said:


> Finding an Evga Z690 Dark in Europe is like finding a unicorn


Sadly true. Normally I would've bought Z690 Kingpin, but since I couldn't and with Apex issues I got Formula and I'm happy with it tbh.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

yzonker said:


> @PLATOON TEKK is the person to ask. Super helpful and always willing to talk about chillers. My guess is the Koolance chillers are the best since that's what he uses. lol Literally has the entire house plumbed for water cooling with several of those in the basement. They're spendy though which is why I don't have one.
> 
> If you are looking at this one,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alphacool Eiszeit 2000 Chiller - black
> 
> 
> The Alphacool “Eiszeit” is a compressor cooler with a maximum cooling power of 1500W. Unlike most so-called Chillers or circulating coolers, the Eiszeit has a high-performance integrated pump. Highlights Integrated pump with...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aquatuning.co.uk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Definitely don't want it as the page states,
> 
> *"The temperature can NOT be set below 20 ° C. "*
> 
> That would completely take you out of sub ambient benching unless you just have no interest in that (unless you hotwire it to run continuously at least). I have this one, but not necessarily because it's the best. Just affordable and easily purchased,
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon.com


Is there a possibility of showing me one I can buy in UK? I don't mind spending the money, just want it to get cold.


----------



## CptSpig

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Anyone could tell me which chiller would be best?
> 
> I was looking at AlphaCool one with 9L tank and built in pump.


I can't tell you which is best because I have not tried any others than the one I own. Koolance EXC-800 Portable 800W Recirculating Liquid Chiller. It works great and keeps the temperature constant. As long as you keep the temperature above the dew point you will get no condensation. The noise can irritate some people it sounds like a
refrigerator when running. If you want to bench mark you can get the water really cold for some great scores. Good luck with whatever you decide.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

CptSpig said:


> I can't tell you which is best because I have not tried any others than the one I own. Koolance EXC-800 Portable 800W Recirculating Liquid Chiller. It works great and keeps the temperature constant. As long as you keep the temperature above the dew point you will get no condensation. The noise can irritate some people it sounds like a refrigerator when running. If you want to bench mark you can get the water really cold for some great scores. Good luck with whatever you decide.


What do you think about Hailea? They don't come with pumps. Almost as if I only have the option to go with the AlphaCool one...


----------



## CptSpig

TheNaitsyrk said:


> What do you think about Hailea? They don't come with pumps. Almost as if I only have the option to go with the AlphaCool one...


Not sure but here is a link to a review for the Hailea HC-500A.


----------



## Lord Alzov

Test 9 russian thermal grease and russian liquid metal


----------



## yzonker

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Is there a possibility of showing me one I can buy in UK? I don't mind spending the money, just want it to get cold.


I don't know what is available there. In regards to your other post, the chiller doesn't have to have a pump. The water cooling pumps we use work fine. The chillers do work better with more flow, so multiple pumps definitely help some.


----------



## ViTosS

Do you guys think those Phanteks T30 fans is a good investment? I've seen they outperform Noctua by a lot (5c at least) for radiator usage in AIOs.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

TheNaitsyrk said:


> What do you think about Hailea? They don't come with pumps. Almost as if I only have the option to go with the AlphaCool one...


Unless you put a chiller in a different location, it is a very bad idea to put it in the same computer room. Do you plan to use it for benchmark only or for 24/7? I use it for 24/7 for a few months and I gave up. The heat and noise of the chiller dump to your room make it a bad place to use a computer. If for benchmark, I think you can check out penguin glycol chiller which can do negative temp. For 24/7, I think you only need a mora and a portable ac blow directly to it.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Unless you put a chiller in a different location, it is a very bad idea to put it in the same computer room. Do you plan to use it for benchmark only or for 24/7? I use it for 24/7 for a few months and I gave up. The heat and noise of the chiller dump to your room make it a bad place to use a computer. If for benchmark, I think you can check out penguin glycol chiller which can do negative temp. For 24/7, I think you only need a mora and a portable ac blow directly to it.


Only benchmarking. I have my 10 rads for 24/7


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

yzonker said:


> I don't know what is available there. In regards to your other post, the chiller doesn't have to have a pump. The water cooling pumps we use work fine. The chillers do work better with more flow, so multiple pumps definitely help some.


I don't know if my 2x D5 can handle: 2x quick connects, 6 radiators, CPU block and a chiller. Hmm.


----------



## Nizzen

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I don't know if my 2x D5 can handle: 2x quick connects, 6 radiators, CPU block and a chiller. Hmm.


After I got the Mo-Ra radiator with 4x 200mm fans, no more MANY radiators for me. Using 2x D5 and have 8x quick disconnects in one loop. One Mo-Ra is enough for everything easy.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Nizzen said:


> After I got the Mo-Ra radiator with 4x 200mm fans, no more MANY radiators for me. Using 2x D5 and have 8x quick disconnects in one loop. One Mo-Ra is enough for everything easy.


For me the extra ones helped. Keep temperature steadier, doesn't heat up at all, and just stays at the same temp all the time due to so many L of coolant

Just want a chiller which plugs into the CPU directly, bypasses the rads for benching purposes. I have a spare D5 pump from EKWB I can use too which is neat.


----------



## Nizzen

TheNaitsyrk said:


> For me the extra ones helped. Keep temperature steadier, doesn't heat up at all, and just stays at the same temp all the time due to so many L of coolant
> 
> Just want a chiller which plugs into the CPU directly, bypasses the rads for benching purposes. I have a spare D5 pump from EKWB I can use too which is neat.


Bypass chiller IS king


----------



## yzonker

TheNaitsyrk said:


> For me the extra ones helped. Keep temperature steadier, doesn't heat up at all, and just stays at the same temp all the time due to so many L of coolant
> 
> Just want a chiller which plugs into the CPU directly, bypasses the rads for benching purposes. I have a spare D5 pump from EKWB I can use too which is neat.


That's the best way anyway to maximize flow for the chiller. If you look at the specs for the one I have, the recommended flow rate is much higher than normal PC loop flow rates.

With lower flow, my chiller will hit a wall around 6C. I use plain distilled water (with additives), so I have wondered if it is freezing up. Flow doesn't seem to fall off but it may be forming a layer of ice. Just a theory, but something definitely changes. 

And if you don't mind the extra noise during benching, these PMP-500s will easily beat a D5 and are not too expensive.





__





PMP-500 Pump, G 1/4 BSP


The Koolance PMP-500 offers a high flow rate and very high static head pressure at just 12V. A mounting bracket is included. Maximum Flow Rate: 16L/m



koolance.com





But those do make a somewhat annoying high pitch whine, so be warned if you consider getting one.

Although maybe those aren't readily available for you either.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

yzonker said:


> That's the best way anyway to maximize flow for the chiller. If you look at the specs for the one I have, the recommended flow rate is much higher than normal PC loop flow rates.
> 
> With lower flow, my chiller will hit a wall around 6C. I use plain distilled water (with additives), so I have wondered if it is freezing up. Flow doesn't seem to fall off but it may be forming a layer of ice. Just a theory, but something definitely changes.
> 
> And if you don't mind the extra noise during benching, these PMP-500s will easily beat a D5 and are not too expensive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PMP-500 Pump, G 1/4 BSP
> 
> 
> The Koolance PMP-500 offers a high flow rate and very high static head pressure at just 12V. A mounting bracket is included. Maximum Flow Rate: 16L/m
> 
> 
> 
> koolance.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But those do make a somewhat annoying high pitch whine, so be warned if you consider getting one.
> 
> Although maybe those aren't readily available for you either.


Can't buy those in UK.


----------



## Lord Alzov

Nizzen said:


> After I got the Mo-Ra radiator with 4x 200mm fans, no more MANY radiators for me. Using 2x D5 and have 8x quick disconnects in one loop. One Mo-Ra is enough for everything easy.


I have MO-ra +2x radiator. 1 mora It's not enough for me.
In Russia it is very hot From May to November +30-35 and one pestilence gives a high delta in a quiet mode.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Lord Alzov said:


> I have MO-ra +2x radiator. 1 mora It's not enough for me.
> In Russia it is very hot From May to November +30-35 and one pestilence gives a high delta in a quiet mode.


Very understandable.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

It seems as though, this £400 chiller will be more than enough. Old review but i7-980X at 5.0Ghz eats near 500W so my 330W i9 will be perfect for it.

Just need to find an external molex to wall power adapter for my D5 pump. They recommend 1000L to 3000L pump and my one is 1500L per hour so it should be plenty, especially without radiators just the block.









Hailea HC-500A Water Chiller Review | bit-tech.net


Want to overclock your CPU to 5GHz? Then you'll need a water chiller (aka, a fridge)




www.bit-tech.net


----------



## jayfkay

I have a potentially silly question.
With a VID of around 1.3V for my 12600k, what sort of overclocks can I expect? Probably not much, right?
Or rather, what sort of voltages do I likely have to push if I want to, say, run 5.1ghz on 2 cores and 4.9 on the other 4?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

jayfkay said:


> I have a potentially silly question.
> With a VID of around 1.3V for my 12600k, what sort of overclocks can I expect? Probably not much, right?
> Or rather, what sort of voltages do I likely have to push if I want to, say, run 5.1ghz on 2 cores and 4.9 on the other 4?


Best thing to do, is increase voltage until temperature becomes a problem, then back off a bit so that temps is like max 85c and then keep increasing core clock until it's not stable, then back off 100Mhz for stability and done. Max voltage (in Windows) I recommend is 1.4v. Don't go past that, not that you'll be able to cool it anyway


----------



## jayfkay

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Best thing to do, is increase voltage until temperature becomes a problem, then back off a bit so that temps is like max 85c and then keep increasing core clock until it's not stable, then back off 100Mhz for stability and done. Max voltage (in Windows) I recommend is 1.4v. Don't go past that, not that you'll be able to cool it anyway


Thanks. I was about to edit my post, the VID is 1.3 for 4.9 Ghz. Not too promising, is it? Is there a stress test that will quickly reveal stability issues without having to wait 1-2+ hours? I just use OCCT or prime95 rn


----------



## Ichirou

jayfkay said:


> Thanks. I was about to edit my post, the VID is 1.3 for 4.9 Ghz. Not too promising, is it? Is there a stress test that will quickly reveal stability issues without having to wait 1-2+ hours? I just use OCCT or prime95 rn


Yes. y-cruncher's component stress test with all tests enabled.
Harder to pass than virtually anything else, and only takes 20 minutes.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

jayfkay said:


> Thanks. I was about to edit my post, the VID is 1.3 for 4.9 Ghz. Not too promising, is it? Is there a stress test that will quickly reveal stability issues without having to wait 1-2+ hours? I just use OCCT or prime95 rn


Use Cinebench R23 and loop it for 30 min, or just do single runs that will reveal right away if your CPU OC is stable. If it's really unstable, it will fail right away, but it can also fail 20 min into the test or even when you run 3rd 30min test it may randomly fail.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Use Cinebench R23 and loop it for 30 min, or just do single runs that will reveal right away if your CPU OC is stable. If it's really unstable, it will fail right away, but it can also fail 20 min into the test or even when you run 3rd 30min test it may randomly fail.


You really shouldn't promote Cinebench as a stress test, because it isn't...

Use y-cruncher.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> You really shouldn't promote Cinebench as a stress test, because it isn't...
> 
> Use y-cruncher.


I wouldn't use something that isn't a realistic scenario for a PC.

Didn't you run y-cruncher and CPU degraded?


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I wouldn't use something that isn't a realistic scenario for a PC.
> 
> Didn't you run y-cruncher and CPU degraded?


Cinebench has never been a stress test. Use realbench or blender at least.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Cinebench has never been a stress test. Use realbench or blender at least.


I am happy with Cinebench, I make sure 3x 30min passes. Every application I am using haven't failed at all yet, gaming rendering and so on.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I wouldn't use something that isn't a realistic scenario for a PC.
> 
> Didn't you run y-cruncher and CPU degraded?


"Realistic scenario" is subjective. "Game stable" doesn't apply for everyone.

Anyone who uses their PC for work would fall more under the category of "mission critical" and should not risk any instability ever.
Virtually any form of rendering, encoding, heavy computation could necessitate more resources than what a "game stable" PC provides.

The last thing you want is data or work getting corrupted and being lost.

I did indeed degrade my CPU with y-cruncher, but that was entirely my fault. I let it run for an extremely long duration at a high wattage just to find my chip's architectural limits.
This is similar to rendering something for several hours nonstop, as most projects need that much time at the very least.

But that is not to say that the next person cannot be more conservative and run their chip with a less intensive overclock for longevity.

It all depends on use-case. But suggesting Cinebench as a "realistic" stability test isn't entirely accurate.
FWIW, when I tried Cinebench, I could push my chip another 50-100W beyond 300W and around 0.05-0.10V more without much difficulty.
It's just an entirely different test altogether.


----------



## Nizzen

Ichirou said:


> "Realistic scenario" is subjective. "Game stable" doesn't apply for everyone.
> 
> Anyone who uses their PC for work would fall more under the category of "mission critical" and should not risk any instability ever.
> Virtually any form of rendering, encoding, heavy computation could necessitate more resources than what a "game stable" PC provides.
> 
> The last thing you want is data or work getting corrupted and being lost.
> 
> I did indeed degrade my CPU with y-cruncher, but that was entirely my fault. I let it run for an extremely long duration at a high wattage just to find my chip's architectural limits.
> This is similar to rendering something for several hours nonstop, as most projects need that much time at the very least.
> 
> But that is not to say that the next person cannot be more conservative and run their chip with a less intensive overclock for longevity.
> 
> It all depends on use-case. But suggesting Cinebench as a "realistic" stability test isn't entirely accurate.
> FWIW, when I tried Cinebench, I could push my chip another 50-100W beyond 300W and around 0.05-0.10V more without much difficulty.
> It's just an entirely different test altogether.


Work mission critical: Company is buying Supermicro motherboard etc....

If I'm satisfied with the stability of my own computers, I'm satisfied 
I don't care about others computers


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Ichirou said:


> "Realistic scenario" is subjective. "Game stable" doesn't apply for everyone.
> 
> Anyone who uses their PC for work would fall more under the category of "mission critical" and should not risk any instability ever.
> Virtually any form of rendering, encoding, heavy computation could necessitate more resources than what a "game stable" PC provides.
> 
> The last thing you want is data or work getting corrupted and being lost.
> 
> I did indeed degrade my CPU with y-cruncher, but that was entirely my fault. I let it run for an extremely long duration at a high wattage just to find my chip's architectural limits.
> This is similar to rendering something for several hours nonstop, as most projects need that much time at the very least.
> 
> But that is not to say that the next person cannot be more conservative and run their chip with a less intensive overclock for longevity.
> 
> It all depends on use-case. But suggesting Cinebench as a "realistic" stability test isn't entirely accurate.
> FWIW, when I tried Cinebench, I could push my chip another 50-100W beyond 300W and around 0.05-0.10V more without much difficulty.
> It's just an entirely different test altogether.


If it's mission critical, you don't overclock dude.


----------



## Ichirou

TheNaitsyrk said:


> If it's mission critical, you don't overclock dude.


I used to say the same, but supposing one does choose to overclock, they shouldn't do a half-baked job of it. _shrug_


----------



## stahlhart

Ichirou said:


> You really shouldn't promote Cinebench as a stress test, because it isn't...
> 
> Use y-cruncher.












Don't own a 12900K, but walking the talk anyway.


----------



## z390e

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Cinebench has never been a stress test. Use realbench or blender at least.


Any test that uses the CPU to render graphics to test its functionality just seems stupid because 99% of games will never allow your CPU to render graphics at that level for that long.

This is why I like y-cruncher as well.

If you don't want to run y-cruncher, and want a CPU "test" try converting an h265 mkv file to h264 mp4 file using ffmpeg, it will stress the **** out of your CPU, is an actual real-world use case, and while it is graphic-based, your monitor isn't rendering the graphics on screen during the test.



TheNaitsyrk said:


> I am happy with Cinebench, I make sure 3x 30min passes. Every application I am using haven't failed at all yet, gaming rendering and so on.


What game is going to use your CPU to render graphics for 90 straight minutes in a day?



TheNaitsyrk said:


> If it's mission critical, you don't overclock dude.


Sometimes the critical mission is to overclock though.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

z390e said:


> Any test that uses the CPU to render graphics to test its functionality just seems stupid because 99% of games will never allow your CPU to render graphics at that level for that long.
> 
> This is why I like y-cruncher as well.
> 
> If you don't want to run y-cruncher, and want a CPU "test" try converting an h265 mkv file to h264 mp4 file using ffmpeg, it will stress the **** out of your CPU, is an actual real-world use case, and while it is graphic-based, your monitor isn't rendering the graphics on screen during the test.
> 
> 
> 
> What game is going to use your CPU to render graphics for 90 straight minutes in a day?
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes the critical mission is to overclock though.


I respectfully disagree. If you want reliability you don't touch BIOS at all. Plus, if you need to OC to get something usable, that's when you need to upgrade.

Although yes, converting a file is a real world scenario and I agree that would be a good test as well.

So far I rendered in blender, converted some videos, did some 3D modelling, did some gaming (not much though), lots of Photoshop and not a single BSOD, except when it was 40C outside. Nothing is mission critical so I'm happy the way it is at the moment.


----------



## Kris57

Hello all. New member and new 12900ks owner here. I have read up on here from April on since the KS release I was after a bit of advice please. I would like to get a rough idea on my chip quality as i'm using a unify x so no sp indicator. Is there a simple way to calc the quality of my chip? I'm not expecting golden its just I normally lose any silicon lottery lol so would settle for an average / good ks. My cooler is artic freezer 2 360 with thermal right frame. So far running r23 with ecores disabled I can set 54 on my 4 coolest cores and 53 on my warmest 4 with 50 cache but I need 1.36v llc2 to run. Only 1 core sometimes peaks to 100c a second but in general the temps are fine at late 80's. Sorry its a bit long but any help is appreciated and thanks for reading


----------



## Ichirou

Kris57 said:


> Hello all. New member and new 12900ks owner here. I have read up on here from April on since the KS release I was after a bit of advice please. I would like to get a rough idea on my chip quality as i'm using a unify x so no sp indicator. Is there a simple way to calc the quality of my chip? I'm not expecting golden its just I normally lose any silicon lottery lol so would settle for an average / good ks. My cooler is artic freezer 2 360 with thermal right frame. So far running r23 with ecores disabled I can set 54 on my 4 coolest cores and 53 on my warmest 4 with 50 cache but I need 1.36v llc2 to run. Only 1 core sometimes peaks to 100c a second but in general the temps are fine at late 80's. Sorry its a bit long but any help is appreciated and thanks for reading


As @sugi0lover once said, any chip that can run 54x all-core stable can be considered golden. Anything less and it's just an average chip.


----------



## Kris57

Ichirou said:


> As @sugi0lover once said, any chip that can run 54x all-core stable can be considered golden. Anything less and it's just an average chip.


Would that statment still stand if ecores are disabled going for the all core 5.4?


----------



## z390e

Ichirou said:


> As @sugi0lover once said, any chip that can run 54x all-core stable can be considered golden. Anything less and it's just an average chip.



_cries because one lousy p-core wont do 5.4 at low vcore_


----------



## Ichirou

Kris57 said:


> Would that statment still stand if ecores are disabled going for the all core 5.4?


E-core quality vastly differs per chip, so it's not a factor for consideration. It's strictly the P-cores.


----------



## yzonker

I've tried reading through a lot of this thread, but haven't really been able to come to a firm conclusion. What is a typical (not exceptional chips, just typical) stable full load (like ycruncher) voltage at 5.2 or 5.3 all core? 

And then at least with my KP board, it's confusing what the true vcore voltage is. Somewhere I read it was "VR Out". There's also a vcore # in the EVGA section in HWINFO. I ended up in the 1.24-1.27v range depending on which # I look at (5.2 all core).


----------



## Kris57

Thanks for the replies. 1.36v to get 4 cores 5.4 and 4 at 5.3 stable on a KS seems average. I have my concerns it was already opened buying from Amazon as the one of the black sticky labels looked tampered with and going by the speeds I'm wondering if it was tested already hence asking on here for advice which is appreciated.


----------



## z390e

yzonker said:


> I've tried reading through a lot of this thread, but haven't really been able to come to a firm conclusion. What is a typical (not exceptional chips, just typical) stable full load (like ycruncher) voltage at 5.2 or 5.3 all core?
> 
> And then at least with my KP board, it's confusing what the true vcore voltage is. Somewhere I read it was "VR Out". There's also a vcore # in the EVGA section in HWINFO. I ended up in the 1.24-1.27v range depending on which # I look at (5.2 all core).


I'd try running y-cruncher 1b in benchmate and then comparing that score against what others on HWBot have for that same CPU. Its not a great system but can give you some sort of idea of whats out there. 

My recollection was the scores were all over. Someone had like 445w @ 5.4 @ 1.65v and 100c that was just ridiculous. For me I pulled down about 340w @ 5.3 with temps around 80c but I have AVX -2. There is a thread for it









Punish it with y-cruncher


I can't run y-cruncher as it errors out with the "Coefficient is too large" error on this CPU (i7-8086k). Site says that it's something to do about an unstable OC, but I'm confident that that is not the case. I'm leaning towards some sort of bug with AVX on this CPU. I'll have to try it again...




www.overclock.net





Also, Im not sure what the exact value for VROut in HWInfo is on the Dark, but vcore in BIOS definitelty translates to CPU Vcore under the EVGA section. My recollection was VROut was a more precise voltage reading but I think that it was board dependent? IDK.


----------



## stahlhart

yzonker said:


> I've tried reading through a lot of this thread, but haven't really been able to come to a firm conclusion. What is a typical (not exceptional chips, just typical) stable full load (like ycruncher) voltage at 5.2 or 5.3 all core?
> 
> And then at least with my KP board, it's confusing what the true vcore voltage is. Somewhere I read it was "VR Out". There's also a vcore # in the EVGA section in HWINFO. I ended up in the 1.24-1.27v range depending on which # I look at (5.2 all core).


Back in the day there would be scoreboard threads here where members would validate their results/performance against realistic assessments of stability and stress resilience -- everyone would have to pass the same test or test with the same parameters, and post them in a consistent format, so that there would be a level playing field that would weed out individuals making specious claims without backing them up, or having a thorough understanding of how scores should be defined and agreed to. The OP would maintain charts on the first page, and the participation would be significant. I miss those days. I never had any hope of finishing anywhere near the top, but it was always fun to participate, and I think that the results were a good representation of how well average processors / GPUs fared (taking into account differences in build such as custom loops, etc.). You still got the occasional golden part, but at least it was measured objectively.

I suppose you can still do this at really stringent places like HWBOT, but here it was always more towards community building and camaraderie than serious hardcore competition. We probably just don't have the same level of forum participation any longer, which is unfortunate.


----------



## Zarok77

acoustic said:


> What batch is this chip? Curious if it was produced after the KS release or if you found a gem


Update with 12gen thermal right bracket and had a look: batch V144J p-cores sp 115 e-cores sp76


----------



## Zarok77

running r20 5.5g p-cores 1.35v temp max out around lo 80's with 360mm ek radiator and ek waterblock, ddc pump low speed


----------



## xarot

Ichirou said:


> As @sugi0lover once said, any chip that can run 54x all-core stable can be considered golden. Anything less and it's just an average chip.


What is the baseline of stability here for 54x all-core stability?

Just got to finally test my TG frame but I have TR frame here as well. Passing single runs of CB15 and CB23 at least with 54x P-core and 43x E-cores just fine. But that's likely far away from any real stability.

After installing the frame I was surprised my temps dropped over 10c on cores and chip can now eat at least 285W just fine on simple 360mm loop. Before that the temps were a headache even at 241W. Feels like the chip has now finally been unlocked after delid and the frame. Shame on Intel.


----------



## Ichirou

xarot said:


> What is the baseline of stability here for 54x all-core stability?
> 
> Just got to finally test my TG frame but I have TR frame here as well. Passing single runs of CB15 and CB23 at least with 54x P-core and 43x E-cores just fine. But that's likely far away from any real stability.
> 
> After installing the frame I was surprised my temps dropped over 10c on cores and chip can now eat at least 285W just fine on simple 360mm loop. Before that the temps were a headache even at 241W. Feels like the chip has now finally been unlocked after delid and the frame. Shame on Intel.


Being able to do 30m of R23 is enough to fall under that category. If you need mission critical, use y-cruncher. It'll still work, but need much more Vcore and cooling.


----------



## z390e

For baseline stability I run y-cruncher 1b @xarot 

Where did you get your TG frame? I have been on pre-order on mine no date in sight


----------



## Ichirou

z390e said:


> For baseline stability I run y-cruncher 1b @xarot
> 
> Where did you get your TG frame? I have been on pre-order on mine no date in sight


Just buy the Thermalright frame for $10 on AliExpress. It's literally the same thing, since TG copied it.


----------



## yzonker

Ichirou said:


> Just buy the Thermalright frame for $10 on AliExpress. It's literally the same thing, since TG copied it.


It's on Amazon too for those in the US anyway. That's where I got mine.


----------



## Ichirou

yzonker said:


> It's on Amazon too for those in the US anyway. That's where I got mine.


Probably going to be more expensive on Amazon than on AliExpress.


----------



## yzonker

Ichirou said:


> Probably going to be more expensive on Amazon than on AliExpress.


It is but much much slower and it's not an expensive part either way.


----------



## stahlhart

z390e said:


> For baseline stability I run y-cruncher 1b @xarot
> 
> Where did you get your TG frame? I have been on pre-order on mine no date in sight


I got mine from Titan Rig, but I had to set up notification and wait a couple of weeks for restocking.


----------



## xarot

z390e said:


> For baseline stability I run y-cruncher 1b @xarot
> 
> Where did you get your TG frame? I have been on pre-order on mine no date in sight


I bought the TG frame from Jimm's, a local store in Finland. But it's actually owned by CaseKing Germany so probably that's why I got it so early.

Ordered the TR frame from Ali before May and it arrived around 2 weeks ago. Eek.


----------



## matique

Ichirou said:


> Just buy the Thermalright frame for $10 on AliExpress. It's literally the same thing, since TG copied it.


TG came up with it first, TR was just faster to market. But yeah they perform similarly.


----------



## AnthonyTTaylor

I hope I can get some help here,
I followed a lot of you articles RobertoSampaio, however I'm running into when I OC to
55x,55x,54x,54x,53x,53x,52x,52x
LLC 3 with DC_LL 1.1 AC_LL 0.25
AVX512 offset 0

Running any benchmark,CPUZ, Cinebench R20, my coreclock goes down to 5.1Ghz and thermals are in the mid 70's.

Is the AC_LL too low causing throttling?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

AnthonyTTaylor said:


> I hope I can get some help here,
> I followed a lot of you articles RobertoSampaio, however I'm running into when I OC to
> 55x,55x,54x,54x,53x,53x,52x,52x
> LLC 3 with DC_LL 1.1 AC_LL 0.25
> AVX512 offset 0
> 
> Running any benchmark,CPUZ, Cinebench R20, my coreclock goes down to 5.1Ghz and thermals are in the mid 70's.
> 
> Is the AC_LL too low causing throttling?


What motherboard?


----------



## Zarok77

Here my ambient run r23 good comparison with other high binned 12900k/kf or KS
cpu is NOT delidded/direct die


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Zarok77 said:


> Here my ambient run r23 good comparison with other high binned 12900k/kf or KS
> cpu is NOT delidded/direct die


What are E-cores set as? Try using priority so that entire CPU is focused on Cinebench.


----------



## Zarok77

TheNaitsyrk said:


> What are E-cores set as? Try using priority so that entire CPU is focused on Cinebench.


e-cores are set to 4.2. Could use priority to get higher score but core temp won't work correctly, usage should be 100% with r23 workload. Is your cpu delidded ?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Zarok77 said:


> e-cores are set to 4.2. Could use priority to get higher score but core temp won't work correctly, usage should be 100% with r23 workload. Is your cpu delidded ?


Run once without priority to see temps, then run again just to see how high you can score with priority that's all
Try E-cores 4.3Ghz, what's your voltage?

My CPU is delidded and on direct die cooling. Now at 5.6Ghz all core and 4.4Ghz E-cores.


----------



## Zarok77

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Run once without priority to see temps, then run again just to see how high you can score with priority that's all
> Try E-cores 4.3Ghz, what's your voltage?
> 
> My CPU is delidded and on direct die cooling. Now at 5.6Ghz all core and 4.4Ghz E-cores.


It makes no difference if running realtime priority tbh, the cb benchmark is designed to do 100% usage on all cores available 👍.

Oh yeah ir doing that on 10th gen, basically replacing the stock ihs with rawee's dd ihs + lm. Great combo mate, may my chip could do 5.8g that way, but i would never delid this chip .

Looking forward to see if others i9 12gen can run 31k ambient r23 🙂


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Zarok77 said:


> It makes no difference if running realtime priority tbh, the cb benchmark is designed to do 100% usage on all cores available 👍.
> 
> Oh yeah ir doing that on 10th gen, basically replacing the stock ihs with rawee's dd ihs + lm. Great combo mate, may my chip could do 5.8g that way, but i would never delid this chip .
> 
> Looking forward to see if others i9 12gen can run 31k ambient r23 🙂


I only asked for priority to see the score which would be best it can be.


----------



## yzonker

TheNaitsyrk said:


> I only asked for priority to see the score which would be best it can be.


It depends on how bloated the OS is. On my daily driver OS setting CB to high priority does increase the score slightly (~200pts). On my bench OS install it doesn't make much difference though.


----------



## gamervivek

Getting 12C temp difference between the two favored cores(4&5) and the next-highest temperature core(7). The Core VIDs are also too high and every core seems to hit 5GHz. This on Z690 TUF.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

yzonker said:


> It depends on how bloated the OS is. On my daily driver OS setting CB to high priority does increase the score slightly (~200pts). On my bench OS install it doesn't make much difference though.


Realtime is better. I get on average 32300 with priority, without 32090ish


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

TheNaitsyrk said:


> Realtime is better. I get on average 32300 with priority, without 32090ish


And how many gflops u get with linx?


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Thanh Nguyen said:


> And how many gflops u get with linx?


I didnt do any other benchmarks I have 0 clue about.


----------



## sugi0lover

Thanh Nguyen said:


> And how many gflops u get with linx?


For P5.5/E4.3 with high ram OC, gflops is around 910.
For P5.6, gflops will be around 920, but I can't run it during the summer.
But Linx Gflops depends heavily on Ram OC.



sugi0lover said:


> ran Linx 10 Cycles with A/C Max on.
> Hwinfo was on after Linx for higher Gflops.
> 
> 12900K (SP103, Direct-Die) : all cores P 5.5Ghz, E 4.3Ghz, Cache 4.3Ghz
> Ram : 7200Mhz-30-41-40-28-310-2T
> MB : Z690 Apex
> 
> Personally, Gflops over 900 is very satisfactory^^
> View attachment 2567386


----------



## stahlhart

For perspective, and I just wanted to see what results I'd get and how well the build would handle it.


----------



## yzonker

Finally got my machine up and running and tuned at least reasonably well. TS run just for the CPU score. Not bad, not amazing. I think it's just an average bin. 5.5/4.3 

I may be able to improve it, but need more time to fine tune. 

CPU: 24407









I scored 23 880 in Time Spy


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




 www.3dmark.com


----------



## gecko991

Noice.


----------



## MIXEDGREENS

__





TardCarnival`s XTU 2.0 score: 8532 marks with a Core i7 12700K


The Core i7 12700K @ 5190MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the XTU 2.0 benchmark. TardCarnivalranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org





24th 'fastest' 12700k with quick and filthy overclock. 52 pcore 39 ecore 44 cache 4000MT ddr4. Higher on cache or ecores lowers score. Unstable as hell, watchdog timeout almost guaranteed by the third run of xtu benchmark.

Is ecore L2 voltage on a different plane? If not it looks like I'm maxed.


----------



## stahlhart

MIXEDGREENS said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TardCarnival`s XTU 2.0 score: 8532 marks with a Core i7 12700K
> 
> 
> The Core i7 12700K @ 5190MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the XTU 2.0 benchmark. TardCarnivalranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hwbot.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 24th 'fastest' 12700k with quick and filthy overclock. 52 pcore 39 ecore 44 cache 4000MT ddr4. Higher on cache or ecores lowers score. Unstable as hell, watchdog timeout almost guaranteed by the third run of xtu benchmark.
> 
> Is ecore L2 voltage on a different plane? If not it looks like I'm maxed.












Best I was able to get -- nice work...


----------



## Ichirou

MIXEDGREENS said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TardCarnival`s XTU 2.0 score: 8532 marks with a Core i7 12700K
> 
> 
> The Core i7 12700K @ 5190MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the XTU 2.0 benchmark. TardCarnivalranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hwbot.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 24th 'fastest' 12700k with quick and filthy overclock. 52 pcore 39 ecore 44 cache 4000MT ddr4. Higher on cache or ecores lowers score. Unstable as hell, watchdog timeout almost guaranteed by the third run of xtu benchmark.
> 
> Is ecore L2 voltage on a different plane? If not it looks like I'm maxed.


The E-cores share Vcore with the P-cores, but each multiplier still requires a certain amount to be met.
CLOCK_WATCHDOG is 99% of the time too low Vcore.


----------



## sugi0lover

Some people have already seen this, but it's useful when you decide which socket frame to buy.
I have never heard Feng Zao fiberglass Frame, but it seems that is the best one.








CPU temperatures within limits? - Thermal Grizzly, Thermalright, Jeyi and Feng Zao LGA1700 frames in comparison test | Page 6 | igor'sLAB


Intel's Alder Lake CPUs with their LGA1700 and Independent Loading Mechanism (ILM) including the bending problem have been around for 9 months now. The successor CPUs aka Raptor Lake might not be long…




www.igorslab.de


----------



## z390e

glad I have a .06 torque wrench tbh after reading that and waiting for my frame to arrive


----------



## matique

sugi0lover said:


> Some people have already seen this, but it's useful when you decide which socket frame to buy.
> I have never heard Feng Zao fiberglass Frame, but it seems that is the best one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CPU temperatures within limits? - Thermal Grizzly, Thermalright, Jeyi and Feng Zao LGA1700 frames in comparison test | Page 6 | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> Intel's Alder Lake CPUs with their LGA1700 and Independent Loading Mechanism (ILM) including the bending problem have been around for 9 months now. The successor CPUs aka Raptor Lake might not be long…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de












I got it around same time as skull. It's pretty nice to use, screwholes has a bottom out so you know you are at the right tension when you can't turn with much force. Only con would be it is hard to clean.


----------



## ViTosS

I guy I know got this 12900ks SP, first I thought it was BIOS SP bug, but he said he updated BIOS and the SP kept the same, I never saw an CPU with this high SP


----------



## Ichirou

ViTosS said:


> I guy I know got this 12900ks SP, first I thought it was BIOS SP bug, but he said he updated BIOS and the SP kept the same, I never saw an CPU with this high SP
> 
> View attachment 2569076
> 
> View attachment 2569077


If it's new, it might be an early sample Raptor Lake chip that was made for Alder Lake.
I'm sure Intel is still making Alder Lake chips, just not as many as before. At this point in time, I'd believe it.
Ask your friend what the batch number is, and we'll probably know.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

ViTosS said:


> I guy I know got this 12900ks SP, first I thought it was BIOS SP bug, but he said he updated BIOS and the SP kept the same, I never saw an CPU with this high SP
> 
> View attachment 2569076
> 
> View attachment 2569077


Ask him if he can do 5.5ghz all p cores under 1v. If yes, the sp maybe right.


----------



## sugi0lover

ViTosS said:


> I guy I know got this 12900ks SP, first I thought it was BIOS SP bug, but he said he updated BIOS and the SP kept the same, I never saw an CPU with this high SP
> 
> View attachment 2569076
> 
> View attachment 2569077


It looks like a bug to me since the variance of core vids is too big. 1.498~0.944.
Even the bios update, sometimes the bug still maintains. It took almost 10 times bios update for me to get the right SP.


----------



## david12900k

ViTosS said:


> I guy I know got this 12900ks SP, first I thought it was BIOS SP bug, but he said he updated BIOS and the SP kept the same, I never saw an CPU with this high SP


Pretty simple to find out. Have him find the lowest voltage he can run a static 5.5 GHz P core, 4.0 GHz E core run on Cinebench R23. Have him take a pic of HWinfo (core voltage) while the run is going.
Delidded, I can run 5.5 GHz P, 4.3 GHz E cores @ 1.27v. If he really does have a P core SP of 156, he should be able to do 5.5 GHz all core @ 1.2v easy

Im 99% sure this is a bug or else he has the best 12900KS in the entire world


----------



## gecko991

Agreed.


----------



## MIXEDGREENS

Playing around and figured I'd see what kind of effect e-cores have on ram latency. Surprised at the result and thought maybe it was mostly due to the cache being able to run full tilt, so I set it to 36x and...









I think I will be disabling my e-cores for the time being


----------



## rhyno

figured it out


----------



## rhyno

ok i thought i did. i still cant get my cache to stick , any ideas for ring ratio that wont stay ?


----------



## Alberto_It

Hey guys, I need to update the Bios of my Asus Z690 Maximus Extreme, I currently have version 1101. Is anyone so helpful as to recommend a New stable bios version for ram and CPU under overclocking?

Thanks


----------



## Nizzen

Alberto_It said:


> Hey guys, I need to update the Bios of my Asus Z690 Maximus Extreme, I currently have version 1101. Is anyone so helpful as to recommend a New stable bios version for ram and CPU under overclocking?
> 
> Thanks


Try 1701?


----------



## Alberto_It

Nizzen said:


> Try 1701?


No because I read that then windows 11 update changes it to 1720 and there are problems with ram voltages


----------



## Nizzen

Alberto_It said:


> No because I read that then windows 11 update changes it to 1720 and there are problems with ram voltages


I use 1701 on apex. Not updating here. 
Try first, then repport back


----------



## 2500k_2

del


----------



## Falkentyne

sugi0lover said:


> Some people have already seen this, but it's useful when you decide which socket frame to buy.
> I have never heard Feng Zao fiberglass Frame, but it seems that is the best one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CPU temperatures within limits? - Thermal Grizzly, Thermalright, Jeyi and Feng Zao LGA1700 frames in comparison test | Page 6 | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> Intel's Alder Lake CPUs with their LGA1700 and Independent Loading Mechanism (ILM) including the bending problem have been around for 9 months now. The successor CPUs aka Raptor Lake might not be long…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de


Where do you buy this frame? A search brings up nothing anywhere. I'm in the USA.
Links?


----------



## Ichirou

Falkentyne said:


> Where do you buy this frame? A search brings up nothing anywhere. I'm in the USA.
> Links?


I think it's only available on Taobao. Which involves its own degree of complexity to order, of course.


----------



## Yamcha2209

Hi All, any advice on trying to stabilizing ring cache on the 12900K with my chip I have it running 5.4 ghz all core with a 51 ring ratio 1.385 LLC7 on a Z690 hero mb, I am able to run 52 cache but games will randomly crash to desktop within 30 min.
any particular voltages or settings I should tinkle around in bios to achieve 52 stability


----------



## Ichirou

Yamcha2209 said:


> Hi All, any advice on trying to stabilizing ring cache on the 12900K with my chip I have it running 5.4 ghz all core with a 51 ring ratio 1.385 LLC7 on a Z690 hero mb, I am able to run 52 cache but games will randomly crash to desktop within 30 min.
> any particular voltages or settings I should tinkle around in bios to achieve 52 stability


Boost Vcore.


----------



## Yamcha2209

hahaha I was hoping to avoid that avenue, what would be the upper limit in your experience for vcore 
thank you Ichirou


----------



## Ichirou

Yamcha2209 said:


> hahaha I was hoping to avoid that avenue, what would be the upper limit in your experience for vcore
> thank you Ichirou


1.35-1.40V for sane daily. 1.45V only if you can keep everything under like, 80-85C _max_.
Anecdotally, I degraded my chip by 0.01V by hammering it with 300W at 1.38V or so for several hours nonstop in y-cruncher, at 95C+ constant.
Alder Lake is not as robust as previous generations, so be conservative.


----------



## Yamcha2209

noted I will 1.4v and see how it goes.
damn several hours @95 deg


----------



## Ichirou

Yamcha2209 said:


> noted I will 1.4v and see how it goes.
> damn several hours @95 deg


Yeah, it was an endurance test for stability. Regretted it afterwards.
Still, at least I took one for the team: there is now proven, anecdotal evidence to share about how fast these chips degrade, instead of just guesses.


----------



## Yamcha2209

you did us a solid champ lol 
I get anxious when mine touches 80 deg while installing shaders lol


----------



## affxct

Does Linpack Xtreme leverage AVX-512? I want to begin testing 1720 with ucode 15, but I want to leave it enabled in BIOS if possible. If LinX uses it then I'd have to disable though.


----------



## Hfhjfg

BIOS 1720 is broken (at least on TUF). It doesn't apply ring multiplier, always runs at 36


----------



## centvalny

Falkentyne said:


> Where do you buy this frame? A search brings up nothing anywhere. I'm in the USA.
> Links?








lga1700 bracket - Buy lga1700 bracket with free shipping on AliExpress


Quality lga1700 bracket with free worldwide shipping on AliExpress




www.aliexpress.com


----------



## Falkentyne

centvalny said:


> lga1700 bracket - Buy lga1700 bracket with free shipping on AliExpress
> 
> 
> Quality lga1700 bracket with free worldwide shipping on AliExpress
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aliexpress.com


Um.......dude.
Did you even LOOK at what you posted?

I don't need a GENERIC ALIEXPRESS SEARCH PAGE!
I already OWN two Thermalright brackets. I want the Fiberglass one. Your post did nothing except waste my time.


----------



## Alberto_It

Falkentyne said:


> Um.......dude.
> Did you even LOOK at what you posted?
> 
> I don't need a GENERIC ALIEXPRESS SEARCH PAGE!
> I already OWN two Thermalright brackets. I want the Fiberglass one. Your post did nothing except waste my time.


Sorry for the Ot, you works for Asus?


----------



## matique

Falkentyne said:


> Um.......dude.
> Did you even LOOK at what you posted?
> 
> I don't need a GENERIC ALIEXPRESS SEARCH PAGE!
> I already OWN two Thermalright brackets. I want the Fiberglass one. Your post did nothing except waste my time.



我在淘宝Lite发现了 【枫造】英特尔 12代 CPU扣具 防弯 LGA1700/1800弯曲矫正压板,一起来看! 天貓淘寶海外，花更少，買到寶！

Here ya go man  copy paste into superbuy.

Superbuy link:









Superbuy-Shopping Agent


代购，Superbuy.com,Shopping Agent, Superbuy.com




www.superbuy.com


----------



## centvalny

Falkentyne said:


> Um.......dude.
> Did you even LOOK at what you posted?
> 
> I don't need a GENERIC ALIEXPRESS SEARCH PAGE!
> I already OWN two Thermalright brackets. I want the Fiberglass one. Your post did nothing except waste my time.


Damn! I just tryin to help man! You dont have to open the link. Go find yourself


----------



## sugi0lover

Thanks to your support, I could finish INTEL OPEN OVERCLOCKING CHAMPIONSHIP well.
learned a lot from you guys and it helped me a lot~ Thanks all~


Spoiler: Ranking


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks to your support, I could finish INTEL OPEN OVERCLOCKING CHAMPIONSHIP well.
> learned a lot from you guys and it helped me a lot~ Thanks all~
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Ranking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2569776


Can you describe what the competition was about? Was it won with your golden chip on just water?


----------



## bscool

Ichirou said:


> Can you describe what the competition was about? Was it won with your golden chip on just water?


Here if you wanna see all the enteries and scores/setups etc. Intel Open Overclocking Championship @ HWBOT






Overclocking, overclocking, and much more! Like overclocking.


HWBOT is a site dedicated to overclocking. We promote overclocking achievements and competitions for professionals as well as enthousiasts with rankings and a huge hardware database.




hwbot.org










Overclocking, overclocking, and much more! Like overclocking.


HWBOT is a site dedicated to overclocking. We promote overclocking achievements and competitions for professionals as well as enthousiasts with rankings and a huge hardware database.




hwbot.org










Overclocking, overclocking, and much more! Like overclocking.


HWBOT is a site dedicated to overclocking. We promote overclocking achievements and competitions for professionals as well as enthousiasts with rankings and a huge hardware database.




hwbot.org


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Can you describe what the competition was about? Was it won with your golden chip on just water?


bscool gave you the link. There were limit on cpu clock, temp and etc, so I couldn't take much advantage of the hardware I have.
It was mostly about the tweaks, oc tips and luck. Anyway, I am glad it's finally over , so I can now focus on DDR5 A-die OC.


----------



## matique

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks to your support, I could finish INTEL OPEN OVERCLOCKING CHAMPIONSHIP well.
> learned a lot from you guys and it helped me a lot~ Thanks all~
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Ranking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2569776


Thanks for sharing some tips 😊👍was pretty fun as a first competition as well. Learnt quite a lot about benching through the competition. All the best with Adie tuning!


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> bscool gave you the link. There were limit on cpu clock, temp and etc, so I couldn't take much advantage of the hardware I have.
> It was mostly about the tweaks, oc tips and luck. Anyway, I am glad it's finally over , so I can now focus on DDR5 A-die OC.


What is A-die? The new Hynix die revision? Is it better than M-die?


----------



## tubs2x4

Ichirou said:


> What is A-die? The new Hynix die revision? Is it better than M-die?


If M was better it would have been called “The M-Team”


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> What is A-die? The new Hynix die revision? Is it better than M-die?


It's new Hynix die and I see it's stable at 7800+.








*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


6600 supported on Strix E now?! Edit: apparently not, according to G.Skill, unless 1720 BIOS makes it possible somehow.




www.overclock.net


----------



## Alberto_It

Hfhjfg said:


> BIOS 1720 is broken (at least on TUF). It doesn't apply ring multiplier, always runs at 36


Because BIOS 1720 update through Windows Update or support page have got several issues and Asus and Microsoft have are not doing nothing to fix or remove


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> It's new Hynix die and I see it's stable at 7800+.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> 6600 supported on Strix E now?! Edit: apparently not, according to G.Skill, unless 1720 BIOS makes it possible somehow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Ooh, nice. I guess DDR4 will no longer be the king of latency, unless it's something insane like 4,400 MHz Gear 1 with very tight CAS. But that needs massive binning.
Is Hynix A-die already available on the market, or are they engineering samples only?


----------



## AvengedRobix

Alberto_It said:


> Because BIOS 1720 update through Windows Update or support page have got several issues and Asus and Microsoft have are not doing nothing to fix or remove


it's a bug for every bios... same story of ring locked at 36 in the new gigabyte bios


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Ooh, nice. I guess DDR4 will no longer be the king of latency, unless it's something insane like 4,400 MHz Gear 1 with very tight CAS. But that needs massive binning.
> Is Hynix A-die already available on the market, or are they engineering samples only?


It's already available. Here is the post I made a couple of days ago.








*Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...


I don’t know what to say about that. I was told anything above 6000MHz is difficult for 4 slot boards. From my experience with this one, it seems like I just haven’t found the right voltage settings. The XMP calls for 1.4v, but that’s what 6200MHz requires to be stable. Where the 6200MHz XMP...




www.overclock.net


----------



## Ichirou

sugi0lover said:


> It's already available. Here is the post I made a couple of days ago.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Official* Intel DDR5 OC and 24/7 daily Memory Stability...
> 
> 
> I don’t know what to say about that. I was told anything above 6000MHz is difficult for 4 slot boards. From my experience with this one, it seems like I just haven’t found the right voltage settings. The XMP calls for 1.4v, but that’s what 6200MHz requires to be stable. Where the 6200MHz XMP...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net


Interesting, are these prebinned kits?


----------



## sugi0lover

Ichirou said:


> Interesting, are these prebinned kits?


I don't think so. just new die like b die of DDR4.


----------



## ScomComputers

Hfhjfg said:


> BIOS 1720 is broken (at least on TUF). It doesn't apply ring multiplier, always runs at 36


It works for me!
"In Bios 1720 they separated core & cache voltage setting, so if your _ring_ is locked to 3600 you havn't set the cache voltage. you can see it in the _ring_ limit reasons which should be set true for max voltage reached."
"*You need to disable ring down, set your min/max to the cache ratio you want and then change cache voltage from auto to manual and put the same voltage your using for vcore there.*"


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

What do you guys think of Z690i ROG Strix Z690-I Gaming Wifi?

I paid £650 to get the following: 

Z690i ROG Strix Z690-I Gaming Wifi
12700K
16GB DDR5 (I think it's 5200 or 5600, just one stick)
2TB 980 Pro Samsung NVMe

All for £650.


----------



## affxct

ScomComputers said:


> It works for me!
> "In Bios 1720 they separated core & cache voltage setting, so if your _ring_ is locked to 3600 you havn't set the cache voltage. you can see it in the _ring_ limit reasons which should be set true for max voltage reached."
> "*You need to disable ring down, set your min/max to the cache ratio you want and then change cache voltage from auto to manual and put the same voltage your using for vcore there.*"


Uhm. They actually separated the core and cache SVIDs a few BIOSs ago. 1601 definitely had it, 0082 had it too. I don't think 0061 for the Apex had it. That setting has absolutely nothing/zilch/nada to do with the ring lock. We know this for two reasons. The first is that Gig is suffering the same issue with their new microcode BIOS, and the second is that patching 1720 to use ucode 15 completely fixes it. 

I have no issue setting ring and I've only ever set/adjusted the 'Actual VRM Core Voltage' or 'Core/Cache Voltage' as it used to be called on 1003 and 0811 as well as some older Apex test BIOSs. I only attempted the ucode 15 swap out because it was suggested to me as a fix and was suggested that it did not present any issues with this particular revision. Patching ucode 15 isn't always possible as it can break stability on some revisions, but thankfully not this one.


----------



## Falkentyne

I don't believe these chips should be run at any higher than 1.245v (die sense load vcore-->250 amps+) at power virus loads for any long length of time, unless you are on a chiller or delidded. These are not 10900K 14nm chips (And I recommended people stay at 1.3v load or lower for long term on CML back then). Not even going to bother posting my findings because only @Ichirou would believe me without insulting me, but I think I did my time with multi months of daily stockfish chess testing for my chess work to know. Most people don't run these chips every day with chess engines (Cinebench is a joke, you can pass that at -40mv lower than Stockfish).


----------



## affxct

Falkentyne said:


> I don't believe these chips should be run at any higher than 1.245v at power virus loads for any long length of time, unless you are on a chiller or delidded. These are not 10900K 14nm chips (And I recommended people stay at 1.3v load or lower for long term on CML back then). Not even going to bother posting my findings because only @Ichirou would believe me without insulting me, but I think I did my time with multi months of daily stockfish chess testing for my chess work to know. Most people don't run these chips every day with chess engines (Cinebench is a joke, you can pass that at -40mv lower than Stockfish).


You're correct. The funny thing is so many dudes on this sub are rocking MORA 420s and other ridiculous cooling solutions.


----------



## Ichirou

affxct said:


> You're correct. The funny thing is so many dudes on this sub are rocking MORA 420s and other ridiculous cooling solutions.


Unironically, I too stressed my chip on a MORA 420 + added 1080mm, and it degraded by -0.01V at 1.38V or so after several hours of hammering the chip with 300W at 95C+ nonstop.

At this point, I'm kind of looking forward to the 13900K/KS because of how much better binned they are. I imagine their IMCs are much stronger too.


----------



## z390e

Falkentyne said:


> I don't believe these chips should be run at any higher than 1.245v (die sense load vcore-->250 amps+) at power virus loads for any long length of time, unless you are on a chiller or delidded.


Whats crazy is I have seen y-cruncher runs where people are pulling more than 600w through a 12900ks with relatively identical performance than my mediocre chip on an AIO. I just dont understand how these people aren't seeing huge degradation running 4x the typical max power through their chip repeatedly.


----------



## stahlhart

Falkentyne said:


> I don't believe these chips should be run at any higher than 1.245v (die sense load vcore-->250 amps+) at power virus loads for any long length of time, unless you are on a chiller or delidded. These are not 10900K 14nm chips (And I recommended people stay at 1.3v load or lower for long term on CML back then). Not even going to bother posting my findings because only @Ichirou would believe me without insulting me, but I think I did my time with multi months of daily stockfish chess testing for my chess work to know. Most people don't run these chips every day with chess engines (Cinebench is a joke, you can pass that at -40mv lower than Stockfish).


What are the parameters for which you would consider as having run this successfully? All p-cores and e-cores enabled in UCI, infinite levels, for how long?


----------



## Falkentyne

stahlhart said:


> What are the parameters for which you would consider as having run this successfully? All p-cores and e-cores enabled in UCI, infinite levels, for how long?


I don't understand your question.
I'm using 1.335v set + LLC6 @ 5.1 ghz / 4.0 E / 4.0C for stockfish. And I just don't have infinite levels, i just enter moves from opening books in Chessbase and look at what it's evaluating, and then stop the engine when there's nothing to do.


----------



## stahlhart

Falkentyne said:


> I don't understand your question.


In what context is passing Cinebench a "joke"? How do you "pass" Stockfish in a manner that isn't one?


----------



## matique

z390e said:


> Whats crazy is I have seen y-cruncher runs where people are pulling more than 600w through a 12900ks with relatively identical performance than my mediocre chip on an AIO. I just dont understand how these people aren't seeing huge degradation running 4x the typical max power through their chip repeatedly.


how does one pull 600w on YC lol even with avx512 I think the most I have ever pulled was 400w, most of the time with sensible voltages it'll be 375w or so.


----------



## z390e

matique said:


> how does one pull 600w on YC lol even with avx512 I think the most I have ever pulled was 400w, most of the time with sensible voltages it'll be 375w or so.


IDK either probably IIR the one I saw was massive vcore override to like 1.6+

Here is a max wattage 551w one I found (This one is LN2 obviously) while looking for that 605w one I saw (which was not an LN2) I cant find that one but Ill keep trying to find it.












And here is a 464w that scored lower than my chip did.










My relatively normal chip pulling 369w


----------



## fat4l

Are we guys still binning the chips ? Or we all are waiting for 13900K ?


----------



## Ichirou

fat4l said:


> Are we guys still binning the chips ? Or we all are waiting for 13900K ?


Alder Lake overclocking is largely over; people are just waiting for Raptor Lake now.


----------



## Falkentyne

fat4l said:


> Are we guys still binning the chips ? Or we all are waiting for 13900K ?


Everyone's waiting for 13900K unless they need AVX512. If the leaks are actually correct, the stock intel boost clocks will be equal to the most golden of the golden overclock clocks of 12900 Keep Spending Editions out there, with double the E cores. But no one knows at what voltage.

The only two chiphell leaks showed a 5.8 ghz all core running AIDA64 stress FPU or CPU or something and a CB run, and AIDA had a load voltage of 1.416v and Cinebench R23 showed an idle voltage of 1.524v. No idea if these are die sense or socket sense. Definitely not safe if you value the longevity of your chips.




















Then there's probably the same guy doing 6 ghz with e cores disabled and possibly hyperthreading disabled with 1.483v idle...


----------



## Zarok77

z390e said:


> IDK either probably IIR the one I saw was massive vcore override to like 1.6+
> 
> Here is a max wattage 551w one I found (This one is LN2 obviously) while looking for that 605w one I saw (which was not an LN2) I cant find that one but Ill keep trying to find it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And here is a 464w that scored lower than my chip did.
> 
> 
> My relatively normal chip pulling 369w


hey that's my benchmark ;D


----------



## Zarok77

matique said:


> how does one pull 600w on YC lol even with avx512 I think the most I have ever pulled was 400w, most of the time with sensible voltages it'll be 375w or so.


the cpu is safe and sound no degradation i can assure you


----------



## IronAge

Zarok77 said:


> the cpu is safe and sound no degradation i can assure you


What LLC Level you have used for that bench ? thx for input.


----------



## Hfhjfg

Falkentyne said:


> The only two chiphell leaks showed a 5.8 ghz all core running AIDA64 stress FPU or CPU or something and a CB run, and AIDA had a load voltage of 1.416v


Wow! 5.8Mhz all cores. Looks impressive.
I remember first leaks of 12900k testing results, they showed 12900k running at 5.3Ghz all cores. Reality was really close to these numbers. Average 12900k can run 5.2-5.3Ghz all cores / 5.4-5.5 best cores.

So if we extrapolate these leaks we can expect the next overclocking potential for 13900k:
*Average CPUs*: *5.7-5.8Ghz* all cores, *5.9-6.0Ghz* best cores
*Best CPUs*: *5.9-6.0Ghz* all cores, *6.1-6.3Ghz* best cores
on a custom water loop


----------



## Ichirou

Hfhjfg said:


> So if we extrapolate these leaks we can expect the next overclocking potential for 13900k:
> *Average CPUs*: *5.7-5.8Ghz* all cores, *5.9-6.0Ghz* best cores
> *Best CPUs*: *5.9-6.0Ghz* all cores, *6.1-6.3Ghz* best cores
> on a custom water loop


Those estimates are a bit too optimistic.
I'd say that the average 13th Gen would do 5.5-5.6 GHz all-core under 1.40V, with some cores managing up to 5.8 GHz.
Ton bins would do 5.7-5.8 GHz all-core with some cores up to 6.0 GHz under 1.40V.

The only people who managed over 6.0 GHz so far are pushing well above 1.40-1.45V, which isn't good for longevity.


----------



## 2500k_2

Falkentyne said:


> Definitely not safe if you value the longevity of your chips.


What voltage levels TxVDDQ , CPU VDD do you consider to be the maximum for long-term safe use? (not for short-term benchmarks under the chiller and a few testmeme screenshots)


----------



## Nizzen

2500k_2 said:


> What voltage levels TxVDDQ , CPU VDD do you consider to be the maximum for long-term safe use? (not for short-term benchmarks under the chiller and a few testmeme screenshots)


Isn't every cpu short therm here on Overclock.net? There is almost new cpu's out every year  Got to overclock them all


----------



## Falkentyne

2500k_2 said:


> What voltage levels TxVDDQ , CPU VDD do you consider to be the maximum for long-term safe use? (not for short-term benchmarks under the chiller and a few testmeme screenshots)


I don't memory overclock (a little over xmp but that's it. Maybe when I get Hynix agb IC I might).. Gotta ask someone good like Nizzen or cstkl1 for this.
I play Stockfish.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Nizzen said:


> Isn't every cpu short therm here on Overclock.net? There is almost new cpu's out every year  Got to overclock them all


You're most likely correct.

I just realised that new Ryzen CPUs will have single core in CB23 between 2000-2100, so same as the current 12900KS. If you have a golden sample and it's clocked 5.7-5.8Ghz on single core then 2300 almost is still beating Ryzen.

Ryzen will most likely beat Intel again in multi core, but that's fine, the 13900K sound promising.


----------



## SeMi79

centvalny said:


> lga1700 bracket - Buy lga1700 bracket with free shipping on AliExpress
> 
> 
> Quality lga1700 bracket with free worldwide shipping on AliExpress
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.aliexpress.com


Here's the link who wants the Fiberglass One ;-)
Frame Color 2 on Superbuy
For myself i decided try the very first one that milky shine aint that plastic the closer and often i look
will see in a week
underway


----------



## Zarok77

IronAge said:


> What LLC Level you have used for that bench ? thx for input.


7


----------



## Alberto_It

TheNaitsyrk said:


> You're most likely correct.
> 
> I just realised that new Ryzen CPUs will have single core in CB23 between 2000-2100, so same as the current 12900KS. If you have a golden sample and it's clocked 5.7-5.8Ghz on single core then 2300 almost is still beating Ryzen.
> 
> Ryzen will most likely beat Intel again in multi core, but that's fine, the 13900K sound promising.


Sound promising, but the 13900k can't beat in multi the Ryzen due to architecture of Cores. 
The Ryzen 7000 series have got all P-Cores


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Alberto_It said:


> Sound promising, but the 13900k can't beat in multi the Ryzen due to architecture of Cores.
> The Ryzen 7000 series have got all P-Cores


That may be true, but there is more of them now. I saw CB23 is around 42000 for 13900K now which is not bad, we will see how Ryzen 7950X does. It's all speculation anyway but interesting to see.

Makes me want to skip a gen, 12900KS still more than capable doing anything tbh.


----------



## MarkDeMark

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks to your support, I could finish INTEL OPEN OVERCLOCKING CHAMPIONSHIP well.
> learned a lot from you guys and it helped me a lot~ Thanks all~
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Ranking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 2569776


I've been wanting to ask you guys. Regarding the Geekbench5 stage3 of the competition, how did many of you get such a low score on the multi-core result? Most decent single score were all around the 2290<>2300 - but in the same range the difference between the muti-core results were so huge, like 4000<>22000. And most of you that reached the 2300 mark had very low multi-core results. While all cores had to be active, how is that?


----------



## matique

MarkDeMark said:


> I've been wanting to ask you guys. Regarding the Geekbench5 stage3 of the competition, how did many of you get such a low score on the multi-core result? Most decent single score were all around the 2290<>2300 - but in the same range the difference between the muti-core results were so huge, like 4000<>22000. And most of you that reached the 2300 mark had very low multi-core results. While all cores had to be active, how is that?


Affinity to a few cores. I had my GB5 locked to 3 pcores running a hair under 5.5. Ecores were all smashed down as low as possible in hopes of pushing up ring cache. My chip can't do more than 4600, while others did >4800. That's why GB5 multi was so low.


----------



## sugi0lover

matique said:


> Affinity to a few cores. I had my GB5 locked to 3 pcores running a hair under 5.5. Ecores were all smashed down as low as possible in hopes of pushing up ring cache. My chip can't do more than 4600, while others did >4800. That's why GB5 multi was so low.


Yes. This is the way I did. Fortunately, my chip can do more than 4800 ring with e cores on.


----------



## acoustic

What's the baseline test for a 12900K for non-ASUS binning? Trying to figure out if this 12900K is worth keeping or if I'm returning it as my 12700K fortunately did not die when my ASUS TUF D4 went _poof_


----------



## Ichirou

acoustic said:


> What's the baseline test for a 12900K for non-ASUS binning? Trying to figure out if this 12900K is worth keeping or if I'm returning it as my 12700K fortunately did not die when my ASUS TUF D4 went _poof_


Lowest Vcore on load with 30 minutes of Cinebench R23 for game stable, or must pass y-cruncher for a stricter test by raising the Vcore further.


----------



## acoustic

Ichirou said:


> Lowest Vcore on load with 30 minutes of Cinebench R23 for game stable, or must pass y-cruncher for a stricter test by raising the Vcore further.


Guess I'm trying to figure out what the average VCC sense voltage is required, since I don't have SP ratings to base things off of.


----------



## Ichirou

acoustic said:


> Guess I'm trying to figure out what the average VCC sense voltage is required, since I don't have SP ratings to base things off of.


Yes... Most people here just use 30 minutes of Cinebench to compare amongst each other.


----------



## MarkDeMark

matique said:


> Affinity to a few cores. I had my GB5 locked to 3 pcores running a hair under 5.5. Ecores were all smashed down as low as possible in hopes of pushing up ring cache. My chip can't do more than 4600, while others did >4800. That's why GB5 multi was so low.


Thanks for the clarification. It all make sense now.


----------



## Falkentyne

acoustic said:


> What's the baseline test for a 12900K for non-ASUS binning? Trying to figure out if this 12900K is worth keeping or if I'm returning it as my 12700K fortunately did not die when my ASUS TUF D4 went _poof_


If you're a masochist, Stockfish (24 threads) chess engine in Arena UCI client and BMI2 or AVX2 version of stockfish installed.


Stockfish Development Versions



Cinebench is a joke for true stability But if you can run 30 minutes of R23 without a BSOD or lockup, most of your games will be stable too. "Stable enough."
Note: you can pass R23 and still sometimes fail R15, especially with E cores disabled, means you aren't stable.


----------



## acoustic

Ichirou said:


> Yes... Most people here just use 30 minutes of Cinebench to compare amongst each other.


Lol, I get the CB23 30min test. I was trying to look through the thread to find if anyone had established what voltage for what speed is tied to what SP rating.

So far, pretty sure this chip is a poor bin - fairly certain it was made after 12900KS release based off the way the IHS was stamped.

I'm currently running 52x all-core at 1.267v VR VOUT in CB23. This is also Y-Cruncher stable.

53x is impossible to get stable for all-core use with the temps. I would need to de-lid the chip and swap my copper IHS from my 12700K over.

The Unify-X gets here tomorrow. This MEG ACE is nice, but 4-DIMM boards really are hell. I can't get above 6400, and 6200 takes 1.31v vs 1.25v that XMP requests.

Also considering just returning everything and having no PC until RPL releases in October.. but that's a long way out..


----------



## warbucks

acoustic said:


> Lol, I get the CB23 30min test. I was trying to look through the thread to find if anyone had established what voltage for what speed is tied to what SP rating.
> 
> So far, pretty sure this chip is a poor bin - fairly certain it was made after 12900KS release based off the way the IHS was stamped.
> 
> I'm currently running 52x all-core at 1.267v VR VOUT in CB23. This is also Y-Cruncher stable.
> 
> 53x is impossible to get stable for all-core use with the temps. I would need to de-lid the chip and swap my copper IHS from my 12700K over.
> 
> The Unify-X gets here tomorrow. This MEG ACE is nice, but 4-DIMM boards really are hell. I can't get above 6400, and 6200 takes 1.31v vs 1.25v that XMP requests.
> 
> Also considering just returning everything and having no PC until RPL releases in October.. but that's a long way out..


I've had two APEX, a Unify-X and the Dark Kingpin. Got rid of the two APEX boards as they were garbage(2021 prod) and kept the unify-x and dark kingpin. Unify-x hit 6800CL30 with my worst binned 12900k. It won't go any higher than that though even with my golden 12900KS. With the Dark Kingpin my golden 12900KS hit 7000CL30 no issues and I'm fairly certain it'll do 7200CL32 once I delid it.

You'll like the Unify-X, it's a great board.


----------



## acoustic

I'm super confident the Unify-X is going to make me happy. I'm going to return the 12900K I picked up and run my 12700K until RPL releases. My 12700K looks like it should be fine.. one contact on the back of the chip is grey, but I can't tell if all 12700K are like that or if it's damaged. Won't know until I fire it up in the Unify. If it's damaged, I'll just swap the 12900K for a 12900KS when I return the motherboard (and potentially the RAM) at Microcenter.

I'm not super happy with the TeamGroup T-Force 6200CL38 heatspreaders. They just feel super flimsy, and I was hitting 52c on TM5 ABSOLUT at 1.330v on the DIMM voltage. There's a set of Kingston Fury Renegade 6400CL32 to test on the way. PC is currently broken down, everything boxed up, and ready to go. Hurry up FEDEX!


----------



## Nizzen

acoustic said:


> I'm not super happy with the TeamGroup T-Force 6200CL38 heatspreaders. They just feel super flimsy, and I was hitting 52c on TM5 ABSOLUT at 1.330v on the DIMM voltage. There's a set of Kingston Fury Renegade 6400CL32 to test on the way. PC is currently broken down, everything boxed up, and ready to go. Hurry up FEDEX!











Custom RAM copper heatsinks for DDR5 / DDR4 - Bartxstore


Custom made copper RAM heatsinks for memory extreme overclocking using dry ice or LN2. Designed for DDR4 and DDR5 memory




bartxstore.com


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Am5 is up now. R5 is 5% faster than 12900k in gaming.Cant wait for Raptor Lake slide show.


----------



## acoustic

Nizzen said:


> Custom RAM copper heatsinks for DDR5 / DDR4 - Bartxstore
> 
> 
> Custom made copper RAM heatsinks for memory extreme overclocking using dry ice or LN2. Designed for DDR4 and DDR5 memory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bartxstore.com


Oh, nice link! I'm considering adding them to my loop as well.. gonna test if the Kingston kit is better than the TeamGroup, and then keep the better of the two.

12700K seems to be OK thankfully! We'll see how she does with DDR5. She was capped at 3800 on DDR4 @ 1.30v SA. I'm hoping I'll get better results out of the DDR5 IMC.

I'll grab a 13900K when they come out and drop it in, then I'm done for a long time lol. Might be a new case in the future but waiting on something that has all the features I want.


----------



## Falkentyne

acoustic said:


> I'm super confident the Unify-X is going to make me happy. I'm going to return the 12900K I picked up and run my 12700K until RPL releases. My 12700K looks like it should be fine.. one contact on the back of the chip is grey, but I can't tell if all 12700K are like that or if it's damaged. Won't know until I fire it up in the Unify. If it's damaged, I'll just swap the 12900K for a 12900KS when I return the motherboard (and potentially the RAM) at Microcenter.
> 
> I'm not super happy with the TeamGroup T-Force 6200CL38 heatspreaders. They just feel super flimsy, and I was hitting 52c on TM5 ABSOLUT at 1.330v on the DIMM voltage. There's a set of Kingston Fury Renegade 6400CL32 to test on the way. PC is currently broken down, everything boxed up, and ready to go. Hurry up FEDEX!


I've seen gray pads before. Don't know what causes them. My 9900K has a couple of them now but the chip still works fine. My 10900k had one too after awhile. What matters in the end is the actual hole the socket pins go into.


----------



## Simkin

acoustic said:


> Oh, nice link! I'm considering adding them to my loop as well.. gonna test if the Kingston kit is better than the TeamGroup, and then keep the better of the two.
> 
> 12700K seems to be OK thankfully! We'll see how she does with DDR5. She was capped at 3800 on DDR4 @ 1.30v SA. I'm hoping I'll get better results out of the DDR5 IMC.
> 
> I'll grab a 13900K when they come out and drop it in, then I'm done for a long time lol. Might be a new case in the future but waiting on something that has all the features I want.


I can keep my Team Group 6200 in the low 40's in TM5 and HCI stress test, with a fan blowing at them. I would recommend having some active cooling, whatever DDR5 ram you have. I run mine at 6200 CL32 1.39V.


----------



## Exilon

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Am5 is up now. R5 is 5% faster than 12900k in gaming.Cant wait for Raptor Lake slide show.


On their DDR5-6000 EXPO timing DDR5 for both since Zen4's memory controller is too weak to go faster. Most people here with their 12900K are already faster than Zen4 for gaming, nevermind the ones that will be running 13th gen with DDR5-7000+

Pretty weak showing for 50% more transistors on a major node jump, tbh.


----------



## acoustic

Falkentyne said:


> I've seen gray pads before. Don't know what causes them. My 9900K has a couple of them now but the chip still works fine. My 10900k had one too after awhile. What matters in the end is the actual hole the socket pins go into.


That's a relief! Yeah, it's one pad. The only reason I was concerned is that the motherboard went haywire, with no rhyme or reason as to why, so I was unsure what exactly was causing the issue and/or if it took any other components with it. The board murdered my Samsung 980 Pro it would seem .. so I need to RMA the both of them So far, system is running great with the 12700K, so the 12900K can go back, and I can grab a 13900K on release; yay!



Simkin said:


> I can keep my Team Group 6200 in the low 40's in TM5 and HCI stress test, with a fan blowing at them. I would recommend having some active cooling, whatever DDR5 ram you have. I run mine at 6200 CL32 1.39V.


I have my top rad blowing as intake over the RAM, and that used to be more than enough for B-Die up to 1.55v, but DDR5 seems to be another beast all together. I'll try the Kingston RAM, and I think I'm going to go with adding the RAM to my loop.

I'm hitting 49/48c on TM5 ABSOLUT at XMP 1.25v, so not very good temps.


----------



## acoustic

Simkin said:


> I can keep my Team Group 6200 in the low 40's in TM5 and HCI stress test, with a fan blowing at them. I would recommend having some active cooling, whatever DDR5 ram you have. I run mine at 6200 CL32 1.39V.


Popped in the Kingston Fury Renegade 6400CL32 @ 1.4v XMP - even though I went from 1.25v to 1.40v, the DIMM temp only went up half of a degree after 25min of TM5 ABSOLUT (TeamGroup gave me 49.5c @ 1.25v, Kingston @ 49.5-50c @ 1.40v)! I think the heatsinks are just poor quality/flimsy on the TeamGroup. I can feel the weight difference holding the TeamGroup and Kingston in my hands.

Definitely going to check out those Copper heatsinks and likely grab an EK Monarch. Not a fan of Barrow or Bitspower blocks.

These Kingston sticks at stock voltage do 6600 with the XMP profile loaded. I'll start tweaking over the next few days.. seems like a LOT to learn with DDR5 OCing.


----------



## RandalFlagg

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Am5 is up now. R5 is 5% faster than 12900k in gaming.Cant wait for Raptor Lake slide show.


I am kind of a lurker here trying to learn from others in this thread, but the numbers AMD posted for Zen 4 using high end motherboard, high end DDR5, and a silicon lotto winning 7950X that can do 2Ghz FCLK would lose to most of the 12900K I've seen in this thread (which mostly have high end mobo, high end ddr5). I suppose there are enthusiasts, and then there are enthusiasts.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Nizzen said:


> Custom RAM copper heatsinks for DDR5 / DDR4 - Bartxstore
> 
> 
> Custom made copper RAM heatsinks for memory extreme overclocking using dry ice or LN2. Designed for DDR4 and DDR5 memory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bartxstore.com


My TridentZ 6400Mhz CL32 4x sticks never go past like 35C but I have 3 fans on top like this (1.55V):


----------



## Nizzen

Is there any program that checking ic name on ddr5?


----------



## acoustic

Nizzen said:


> Is there any program that checking ic name on ddr5?


ASROCK Timing Cfg shows PMIC (mine shows Richtek for example), and then CPUZ shows RAM module name


----------



## Simkin

acoustic said:


> ASROCK Timing Cfg shows PMIC (mine shows Richtek for example), and then CPUZ shows RAM module name


A-Die M-Die B-Die etc dont show there.


----------



## acoustic

Simkin said:


> A-Die M-Die B-Die etc dont show there.


Ahhh I misunderstood


----------



## Nizzen

Simkin said:


> A-Die M-Die B-Die etc dont show there.


Yes, that's what I want to see 
I think I saw one posting it here a while ago...


----------



## david12900k

Im having some issues. I just flashed ASUS BIOS 1702 onto my 2021 Apex. Before this, I could update the v/f points and update the global voltage and the new values would take effect. But after flashing, it seems like when I change the v/f point values and global voltage, the changes no longer take effect. I check both the v/f point summary at the top and vcore while running c23. I can lower my points by .05 and vcore doesnt change from the previous run. The only way to get these settings to take effect is to clear CMOS and re-load the CMO. 

Can anyone else re-create this? Anyone know how to fix?


----------



## MarkDeMark

Nizzen said:


> Yes, that's what I want to see
> I think I saw one posting it here a while ago...


HWiNFO does it now. 
Check this out: Read memory device info (DRAM ICs) of a module? Now it works! | igor'sLAB


----------



## Falkentyne

david12900k said:


> Im having some issues. I just flashed ASUS BIOS 1702 onto my 2021 Apex. Before this, I could update the v/f points and update the global voltage and the new values would take effect. But after flashing, it seems like when I change the v/f point values and global voltage, the changes no longer take effect. I check both the v/f point summary at the top and vcore while running c23. I can lower my points by .05 and vcore doesnt change from the previous run. The only way to get these settings to take effect is to clear CMOS and re-load the CMO.
> 
> Can anyone else re-create this? Anyone know how to fix?


Bug in the microcode (this is Intel's fault). Gigabyte and MSI had similar problems and released updated bioses with regressed microcode.


----------



## Alberto_It

Falkentyne said:


> Bug in the microcode (this is Intel's fault). Gigabyte and MSI had similar problems and released updated bioses with regressed microcode.


1505 bios have 15 ucode?


----------



## IronAge

Exilon said:


> On their DDR5-6000 EXPO timing DDR5 for both since Zen4's memory controller is too weak to go faster. Most people here with their 12900K are already faster than Zen4 for gaming, nevermind the ones that will be running 13th gen with DDR5-7000+











ASRock X670E Motherboard Memory Training Requires Hundreds of Seconds at First Boot (updated)


Intersting, on Twiotter somebody posted a retail ASRock X670E Steel Legend motherboard, which has a sticker covering its four DDR5 DIMM slots. The sticker has some info on the ideal DIMM slot selectio...




www.guru3d.com





Many AGESA updates incoming, just history repeating.


----------



## warbucks

IronAge said:


> ASRock X670E Motherboard Memory Training Requires Hundreds of Seconds at First Boot (updated)
> 
> 
> Intersting, on Twiotter somebody posted a retail ASRock X670E Steel Legend motherboard, which has a sticker covering its four DDR5 DIMM slots. The sticker has some info on the ideal DIMM slot selectio...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.guru3d.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many AGESA updates incoming, just history repeating.


Like any new platform, updates will roll out to address issues/stability. No different than previous generations from amd/intel. Nothing new here.


----------



## IronAge

Last AM4 Ryzen Gen has been special in terms of issues due to AGESA/Firmware bugs, AMD needed way more time than usual to straighten out things.
(bad memory latency & clock rates, max Core Boost Ratios, USB connectivity bugs etc.)
Some people got so annoyed that they switched from 12/16 core Ryzen to lower core count Intel.


----------



## sulalin

DDR5-ADIE單通道風冷直開頻率8400/8533/8600/8800單單單電流風冷高達9004MHz非常強


Spoiler: ADIE


----------



## stahlhart

I really wish that there was something that could be done to improve RAM temperatures besides forcing builders to construct Rube Goldberg cooling solutions for it.


----------



## Nizzen

stahlhart said:


> I really wish that there was something that could be done to improve RAM temperatures besides forcing builders to construct Rube Goldberg cooling solutions for it.


Doing something with DDR5 temperature, is the most easy kind of cooling any hardware. How easy do you want it?


----------



## Ichirou

stahlhart said:


> I really wish that there was something that could be done to improve RAM temperatures besides forcing builders to construct Rube Goldberg cooling solutions for it.


Like we're already being forced to for these new CPUs?


----------



## david12900k

Does anyone have any links to ASUS Apex z690 beta bioses? The new microcode bug makes it such a pain to OC


----------



## Agent-A01

TheNaitsyrk said:


> My TridentZ 6400Mhz CL32 4x sticks never go past like 35C but I have 3 fans on top like this (1.55V):
> View attachment 2570714
> View attachment 2570713


What are you using to attach the 40mm fans to the memory?


----------



## Nizzen

david12900k said:


> Does anyone have any links to ASUS Apex z690 beta bioses? The new microcode bug makes it such a pain to OC


1701 bios is what you need 





ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-1701.7z







drive.google.com


----------



## david12900k

Nizzen said:


> 1701 bios is what you need
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-1701.7z
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


thanks!


----------



## david12900k

Nizzen said:


> 1701 bios is what you need
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-1701.7z
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


LOL no way. I just flashed your 1701 bios and loaded up my settings and all looked good. Went back to the bios to update some voltage settings, and it auto updated to 1720.....
***


----------



## Nizzen

david12900k said:


> LOL no way. I just flashed your 1701 bios and loaded up my settings and all looked good. Went back to the bios to update some voltage settings, and it auto updated to 1720.....
> ***


Install Win 11 ghost spectre 

No more BS and unnwanted performance drops...


----------



## david12900k

Nizzen said:


> Install Win 11 ghost spectre
> 
> No more BS and unnwanted performance drops...


I might do that. It's honestly insane to me that ASUS doesn't require the end user to click "Yes, I want to update the bios". I feel like "Automatic bios updating" should never be a thing, especially on an Apex board unless it was an opt in button and not a default


----------



## Nizzen

Error 404


----------



## IronAge

Is there a UEFI with MC which may enable AVX512 and still display correct ratios and prediction for 12900KS ? 

i bought a 12900KS with the old Logo on the HS, it is a retail 12900KS assembled week 50/2021.


----------



## IronAge

Agent-A01 said:


> What are you using to attach the 40mm fans to the memory?


Zip ties FTW, maybe sb has a 3D model for printing ...









DIMM Fan Mount by SF3DPrint


I wanted to run with overclocked DIMM memory on my computer so decided to used forced-air with a pair of 40mm fans. This assembly spans 4 rows of DIMMs. This is just a quick print to do that. The fans I used are 40x40x10mm Noctua fans and mounted them from below with the little screws they come...




www.thingiverse.com












Holder 3 fan DDR4 cooling memory by Kolyuchiy


Holder 3 fan DDR4 cooling memory




www.thingiverse.com





... and modify it for your own needs.


----------



## Ichirou

IronAge said:


> Is there a UEFI with MC which may enable AVX512 and still display correct ratios and prediction for 12900KS ?
> 
> i bought a 12900KS with the old Logo on the HS, it is a retail 12900KS assembled week 50/2021.


Nobody has a AVX-512 enabled 12900KS except for safedisk; the logo means nothing. His chip was very likely an engineering sample, since he works for ASUS.


----------



## IronAge

Tought i read somewhere until a certain production week retail 12900KS may be AVX512 enabled.  

Cheers for clearing things up.


----------



## Ichirou

IronAge said:


> Tought i read somewhere until a certain production week retail 12900KS may be AVX512 enabled.
> 
> Cheers for clearing things up.


Nope; there was speculation that early KSes with the proper logo would have it, but it's been debunked. All retail samples do not have it.
Engineering samples like safedisk's might, though. But I doubt you'll be able to buy one.


----------



## affxct

david12900k said:


> LOL no way. I just flashed your 1701 bios and loaded up my settings and all looked good. Went back to the bios to update some voltage settings, and it auto updated to 1720.....
> ***


Want me to make a ucode 15 1720 for you?


----------



## RobertoSampaio

What do you think about these memories?
Are these good for OCing?









XPG Lancer RGB DDR5-6000 2x 16 GB Review


XPG takes DDR5 one step further with its Lancer RGB kit rated for 6000 MT/s CL40. Using a stylish, modern design, XPG is blurring the lines between performance and enthusiast-grade memory. Follow along as we thoroughly test the X.M.P profile and overclock this memory kit!




www.techpowerup.com


----------



## Ichirou

RobertoSampaio said:


> What do you think about these memories?
> Are these good for OCing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> XPG Lancer RGB DDR5-6000 2x 16 GB Review
> 
> 
> XPG takes DDR5 one step further with its Lancer RGB kit rated for 6000 MT/s CL40. Using a stylish, modern design, XPG is blurring the lines between performance and enthusiast-grade memory. Follow along as we thoroughly test the X.M.P profile and overclock this memory kit!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.techpowerup.com


Get Hynix A-die; M-die is becoming a thing of the past already


----------



## RobertoSampaio

Ichirou said:


> Get Hynix A-die; M-die is becoming a thing of the past already


I need it for now... Cant wait... 
Where to buy a A-Die?


----------



## david12900k

affxct said:


> Want me to make a ucode 15 1720 for you?


If you could that would be great. If you could let me know how too that would be even better so I can learn!


----------



## affxct

david12900k said:


> If you could that would be great. If you could let me know how too that would be even better so I can learn!


It's very simple. 

Step 1:
Get MMTool and the ucode 15 file from the subthread here on OCN 
Step 2:
Load your original BIOS CAP into MMTool
Step 3:
Delete the current (new) CPU patch data
Step 4: 
Insert ucode 15 patch data
Step 5: 
Save your file


----------



## david12900k

affxct said:


> It's very simple.
> 
> Step 1:
> Get MMTool and the ucode 15 file from the subthread here on OCN
> Step 2:
> Load your original BIOS CAP into MMTool
> Step 3:
> Delete the current (new) CPU patch data
> Step 4:
> Insert ucode 15 patch data
> Step 5:
> Save your file


Hmm, dont see 0x18. Nothing is broken right now and my daily OC works. Im just gonna wait until they patch it officially. Dont wanna brick anything


----------



## affxct

david12900k said:


> Hmm, dont see 0x18. Nothing is broken right now and my daily OC works. Im just gonna wait until they patch it officially. Dont wanna brick anything


I'm confused. I can just make it for you tbh.


----------



## bscool

IronAge said:


> Is there a UEFI with MC which may enable AVX512 and still display correct ratios and prediction for 12900KS ?
> 
> i bought a 12900KS with the old Logo on the HS, it is a retail 12900KS assembled week 50/2021.


I made 1701 with u code 15 so avx 512 can be enabled. Never tried it with a KS but it is there if you want to check. [OFFICIAL] Asus Strix/Maximus Z690 Owners Thread


----------



## affxct

david12900k said:


> Hmm, dont see 0x18. Nothing is broken right now and my daily OC works. Im just gonna wait until they patch it officially. Dont wanna brick anything











Microsoft OneDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Online.


Store photos and docs online. Access them from any PC, Mac or phone. Create and work together on Word, Excel or PowerPoint documents.



1drv.ms


----------



## gecko991

Noice.


----------



## david12900k

affxct said:


> Microsoft OneDrive - Access files anywhere. Create docs with free Office Online.
> 
> 
> Store photos and docs online. Access them from any PC, Mac or phone. Create and work together on Word, Excel or PowerPoint documents.
> 
> 
> 
> 1drv.ms


Thank you. Anything I should look out for? Anything weird i should expect?


----------



## Ichirou

RobertoSampaio said:


> I need it for now... Cant wait...
> Where to buy a A-Die?


Paging @sugi0lover


----------



## Ichirou

Next generation DDR5 ICs Review: SK hynix 16 Gbit A-Die - 2x 16 GB with overclocking and gaming | Page 3 | igor'sLAB


Today I have a glimpse into the near future of RAM technology for you, and as is so often the case in the computer hardware industry, it comes from China, where SK Hynix's new DDR5 memory ICs are…




www.igorslab.de





It seems that for Igor's Hynix A-die, he could do 7,466 CL34 stable. EVGA can do up to 8,000 on one stick, while MSI falls behind a little.
Those who have an EVGA Dark will be happy to keep it 

However, sugi did better with 7800 CL32, so who knows. Luck of the draw?


----------



## Nizzen

Ichirou said:


> Next generation DDR5 ICs Review: SK hynix 16 Gbit A-Die - 2x 16 GB with overclocking and gaming | Page 3 | igor'sLAB
> 
> 
> Today I have a glimpse into the near future of RAM technology for you, and as is so often the case in the computer hardware industry, it comes from China, where SK Hynix's new DDR5 memory ICs are…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.igorslab.de
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems that for Igor's Hynix A-die, he could do 7,466 CL34 stable. EVGA can do up to 8,000 on one stick, while MSI falls behind a little.
> Those who have an EVGA Dark will be happy to keep it
> 
> However, sugi did better with 7800 CL32, so who knows. Luck of the draw?


From the seller on hwbot:
"I have 7 kits, binned from 100 sticks. The ones that made the cut are all about the same in terms of OC (a couple dimms out 100 were awful). There are two types of PMIC, crackable and non. These sticks are all crackable, and will work without limits as long as your motherboard bios supports it. (ASRock and Asus for sure and I also believe MSI currently, gigabyte not sure I assume all XOC boards will be at some point.) You need to check your real voltage as some motherboards 1.55 will = 1.53 or 1.52 etc and apply more or less. "


----------



## Ichirou

Nizzen said:


> From the seller on hwbot:
> "I have 7 kits, binned from 100 sticks. The ones that made the cut are all about the same in terms of OC (a couple dimms out 100 were awful). There are two types of PMIC, crackable and non. These sticks are all crackable, and will work without limits as long as your motherboard bios supports it. (ASRock and Asus for sure and I also believe MSI currently, gigabyte not sure I assume all XOC boards will be at some point.) You need to check your real voltage as some motherboards 1.55 will = 1.53 or 1.52 etc and apply more or less. "


I had a little discussion with the original Chinese seller of Hynix A-die, and apparently, he classifies it as "Hynix locked voltage" (which is M-die), and "Hynix unlocked voltage" (which is A-die), and that's for the 16 GB DIMMs. Costs $137 USD and $158 USD per DIMM respectively. The 32 GB DIMMs can achieve around 7,400-7,600 MHz, and cost $230 USD per DIMM.

He isn't really shipping overseas, but I think I could coax him into being willing to do so. He seems like a reasonable guy to me.

As for Splave on HWBOT, he's not really making much profit at all, factoring in his forwarder shipping and his own shipping to buyers, if $450 is for two sticks and not one. But still, that price isn't really great for only a few hundred MHz over most M-die that can hit 7,000-7,200 easy.


----------



## affxct

david12900k said:


> Thank you. Anything I should look out for? Anything weird i should expect?


Not at all really haha.


----------



## TheNaitsyrk

Agent-A01 said:


> What are you using to attach the 40mm fans to the memory?


3D printed bracket I made.


----------



## sulalin

david12900k，帖子：29027535，成員：654350 said:


> 有人有華碩 Apex z690 beta bioses 的鏈接嗎？
> [/引用]





david12900k，帖子：29027535，成員：654350 said:


> 有人有華碩 Apex z690 beta bioses 的鏈接嗎？
> [/引用]








ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-0082.rar







drive.google.com


----------



## Nizzen

sulalin said:


> ROG-MAXIMUS-Z690-APEX-ASUS-0082.rar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> drive.google.com


bianbao.dev

*Fine Granularity Refresh mode*


----------



## sulalin

Nizzen，發布：29026397，成員：343974 said:


> 是否有任何程序可以檢查 ddr5 上的 ic 名稱？
> [/引用]That should be fine


----------



## Benni231990

Nizzen said:


> Install Win 11 ghost spectre
> 
> No more BS and unnwanted performance drops...


Big Big Thanks for sharing this info you got damn right i will never install a Stock windows


----------



## Agent-A01

TheNaitsyrk said:


> 3D printed bracket I made.


Can you upload it? The one someone linked doesn't work with the strix-a board


----------



## Agent-A01

IronAge said:


> Zip ties FTW, maybe sb has a 3D model for printing ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DIMM Fan Mount by SF3DPrint
> 
> 
> I wanted to run with overclocked DIMM memory on my computer so decided to used forced-air with a pair of 40mm fans. This assembly spans 4 rows of DIMMs. This is just a quick print to do that. The fans I used are 40x40x10mm Noctua fans and mounted them from below with the little screws they come...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thingiverse.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Holder 3 fan DDR4 cooling memory by Kolyuchiy
> 
> 
> Holder 3 fan DDR4 cooling memory
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thingiverse.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... and modify it for your own needs.


Unfortunately those won't work as the strix a has this pcie button in the way. I could take it off but would require removal of the motherboard completely.


----------



## Ichirou

Agent-A01 said:


> Unfortunately those won't work as the strix a has this pcie button in the way. I could take it off but would require removal of the motherboard completely.


Buy the Corsair Vengeance fan and mount two mini Noctua fans underneath it; somebody else here did exactly that.


----------



## david12900k

I just 3d printed something today. Im going to add 2 more 40mm fans to this to make 4 total. I am too lazy to modify my tubing run from my CPU


----------



## david12900k

affxct said:


> Not at all really haha.


Huge thanks for that file. Its working as intended. Im now able to update v/f points again. Hopefully asus/intel address this in the next update


----------



## affxct

david12900k said:


> Huge thanks for that file. Its working as intended. Im now able to update v/f points again. Hopefully asus/intel address this in the next update


I'm glad I could be of service ☺


----------



## fat4l

Soooo... finally something interesting.

P core 107, will prolly test tomorrow. Let's see what this bad boy can do


----------



## Nizzen

fat4l said:


> Soooo... finally something interesting.
> 
> P core 107, will prolly test tomorrow. Let's see what this bad boy can do
> 
> 
> View attachment 2571237


Pay to win


----------



## fat4l

Ok the chip is looking solid. 

How did we say we remove all limits in bios on asus mobo so in hwinfo it does not show 'yes' to any power limits?


----------



## affxct

Do you guys all use BCLK to get 5.2GHz? I noticed during Linpack testing that the clock would dip from 5.2 to 5.1 during heavier portions. Pretty sure it's not running above 5.1 while executing AVX instructions.


----------



## fat4l

So.
5.5G possible easy with 1.33v bios llc 6, thats 1.296v load - socket sense so maybe about 1.24v die sense under load ? R20. 

This chip is insane 


Testing 5.6G.


Btw per core oc, lets say that unde light load i want 1 core to boost higher, how do we set it up?


----------



## affxct

fat4l said:


> So.
> 5.5G possible easy with 1.33v bios llc 6, thats 1.296v load - socket sense so maybe about 1.24v die sense under load ? R20.
> 
> This chip is insane
> 
> 
> Testing 5.6G.
> 
> 
> Btw per core oc, lets say that unde light load i want 1 core to boost higher, how do we set it up?


Die sense is almost exactly 75mV under socket sense from what I've observed.


----------



## Ichirou

affxct said:


> Die sense is almost exactly 75mV under socket sense from what I've observed.


What about MSI's "VCC Sense"? lol


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Benni231990 said:


> Big Big Thanks for sharing this info you got damn right i will never install a Stock windows


Do you have the link to the download because I'm getting results from 2021 and don't want to download some bs by accident.


----------



## Benni231990

here: https://ghostcloud.ml/wp1/w11-22h2-22621/

you must download Update 3 *GHOST CUSTOM WPE BOOTABLE*


----------



## fat4l

Guys,
After bios 1403, which kne should we use now? Any benefits of using a newer one than 1403?


----------



## Ichirou

fat4l said:


> Guys,
> After bios 1403, which kne should we use now? Any benefits of using a newer one than 1403?


Test it out yourself. It either allows you to overclock the CPU/RAM further, or it doesn't.


----------



## affxct

Ichirou said:


> What about MSI's "VCC Sense"? lol


VCC Sense mmm. I think that should be die sense, no? Tbh I haven't owned an MSI Intel board since Z77. I know about the Asus Die Sense/Socket Sense thing because I've been able to track load voltages with given set voltages and identical LLC settings. I'm pretty sure the Dark also uses Die Sense because the reading it spits out from VR VOUT is quite low despite set voltage. I think VCC Sense references the same sensor value, but just with a different label/naming convention. The Taichi uses Socket Sense as well for some reason.

From what I've gathered:
ASRock - Socket Sense only
EVGA - Die Sense only
ASUS Maximus - Option
MSI - Option


----------



## fat4l

affxct said:


> VCC Sense mmm. I think that should be die sense, no? Tbh I haven't owned an MSI Intel board since Z77. I know about the Asus Die Sense/Socket Sense thing because I've been able to track load voltages with given set voltages and identical LLC settings. I'm pretty sure the Dark also uses Die Sense because the reading it spits out from VR VOUT is quite low despite set voltage. I think VCC Sense references the same sensor value, but just with a different label/naming convention. The Taichi uses Socket Sense as well for some reason.
> 
> From what I've gathered:
> ASRock - Socket Sense only
> EVGA - Die Sense only
> ASUS Maximus - Option
> MSI - Option



aaaaand Asus Strix, it should be socket sense only I believe no?
Is the socket vs die sense a static 75mv ? It surely must differ per motherboard.
btw, this is from SL binning of 10900K, "Vcore under heavy load @ 1.400V BIOS, 1.310V Socket Sense, 1.210V Die Sense. LLC3"
That's 100mV. hmmm..


Anyway the question I had was this :
_"So when I set voltage manually in bios lets say to 1.4v is(is this socket sense as well?), this is actually much lower? then in windows under load(due to llc) if i see 1.35V this is socket sense so actually lower voltage, lets say 1.3v(die??)?

So realistically, I could potentially set the voltage higher in bios because the real voltage in the core is much lower ? "

Thx_


----------



## affxct

fat4l said:


> aaaaand Asus Strix, it should be socket sense only I believe no?
> Is the socket vs die sense a static 75mv ? It surely must differ per motherboard.
> btw, this is from SL binning of 10900K, "Vcore under heavy load @ 1.400V BIOS, 1.310V Socket Sense, 1.210V Die Sense. LLC3"
> That's 100mV. hmmm..
> 
> 
> Anyway the question I had was this :
> _"So when I set voltage manually in bios lets say to 1.4v is(is this socket sense as well?), this is actually much lower? then in windows under load(due to llc) if i see 1.35V this is socket sense so actually lower voltage, lets say 1.3v(die??)?
> 
> So realistically, I could potentially set the voltage higher in bios because the real voltage in the core is much lower ? "
> 
> Thx_


Okay so:
1X Z690 Apex (LLC 5)
2X Z690-F (LLC 5)

Intel Burn Test V2 (Very High/4096MB)
Apex: 1.35V Set = 1.225V Load
Z690-F: 1.35V Set = 1.3V Load

These were consistent at 1.35V; it was always 1.225 on the Apex @ LLC5 and 1.3V on the Z690-F @ L5.


----------



## fat4l

ok lads,
is there any "good guide" about how to set up thermal velocity boost ? anyone with direct die have any "good" settings to share ?

@david12900k would you mind sharing your 5.7G bios settings?


----------



## Agent-A01

Ichirou said:


> Buy the Corsair Vengeance fan and mount two mini Noctua fans underneath it; somebody else here did exactly that.


Bought the original corsair airflow(3x fans) and it works just fine on the strix board. Replaced with noctua fans = 33c~ max on b-die @ 1.53v

And side note @ everyone else.

SA voltage > 1.4 = permanent degradation of the IMC.

I cannot stabilize 4133 anymore. Used to could run it at 1.4v~ but over time that voltage requirement has increased. Now 4100 can't run even with 1.45v.
I suggest sticking to 1.35~ max.


----------



## nickolp1974

fat4l said:


> ok lads,
> is there any "good guide" about how to set up thermal velocity boost ? anyone with direct die have any "good" settings to share ?
> 
> @david12900k would you mind sharing your 5.7G bios settings?


all in here ASUS MAXIMUS Z690 EXTREME & i9-12900K GUIDE - Load...


----------



## Ichirou

Agent-A01 said:


> Bought the original corsair airflow(3x fans) and it works just fine on the strix board. Replaced with noctua fans = 33c~ max on b-die @ 1.53v
> 
> And side note @ everyone else.
> 
> SA voltage > 1.4 = permanent degradation of the IMC.
> 
> I cannot stabilize 4133 anymore. Used to could run it at 1.4v~ but over time that voltage requirement has increased. Now 4100 can't run even with 1.45v.
> I suggest sticking to 1.35~ max.


That's the same thing I've been recommending everyone else. 1.35V max daily, 1.40V+ only if treading cautiously (or you simply don't care).


----------



## Agent-A01

Ichirou said:


> That's the same thing I've been recommending everyone else. 1.35V max daily, 1.40V+ only if treading cautiously (or you simply don't care).


Yep. Plus extreme tests like y-cruncher surely aren't helping either at high SA voltage.

DDR5 people obviously don't have to deal with that problem.


----------



## david12900k

fat4l said:


> ok lads,
> is there any "good guide" about how to set up thermal velocity boost ? anyone with direct die have any "good" settings to share ?
> 
> @david12900k would you mind sharing your 5.7G bios settings?


I also recommend the guide linked above. In general, I find the highest daily-able all core frequency. For me that's 5.5 GHz all core under AVX 2 loads. Then I usually find that I can pull off a +2 TVB boost. Depending on CPU quality and cooling, I do temp 1 65, temp 2 75 with offset 1 bin at each temp. For me this lets me run all games at 5.7 GHz under load under 65c. The next step is the hardest. Once I had my all core TVB then I can experiment with the subset core tvb's (1 core, 2 core, 3 core, etc). This is harder since it's hard to test it thoroughly.


----------



## fat4l

david12900k said:


> I also recommend the guide linked above. In general, I find the highest daily-able all core frequency. For me that's 5.5 GHz all core under AVX 2 loads. Then I usually find that I can pull off a +2 TVB boost. Depending on CPU quality and cooling, I do temp 1 65, temp 2 75 with offset 1 bin at each temp. For me this lets me run all games at 5.7 GHz under load under 65c. The next step is the hardest. Once I had my all core TVB then I can experiment with the subset core tvb's (1 core, 2 core, 3 core, etc). This is harder since it's hard to test it thoroughly.


do you set manual static voltage? or adaptive ? do you use per core multiplier ?


----------



## stahlhart

Agent-A01 said:


> Yep. Plus extreme tests like y-cruncher surely aren't helping either at high SA voltage.
> 
> DDR5 people obviously don't have to deal with that problem.


Yes, 0.93V here from day one.


----------



## david12900k

fat4l said:


> do you set manual static voltage? or adaptive ? do you use per core multiplier ?


I set adaptive voltage and I set it to the highest point voltage in the v/f curve. Then I modify the values in the v/f curve


----------



## Alberto_It

@CENS I have got a brand new Z690 Dark Kingpin, can you please explain how to set the bios for a Oc profile?


----------



## CENS

Alberto_It said:


> @CENS I have got a brand new Z690 Dark Kingpin, can you please explain how to set the bios for a Oc profile?


Hi Alberto, on top left corner there is a drop down in the bios. There you can find wide selection for some base line OC profiles for you to explore.

Or you can just select sync all-core OC to 5.3GHz disable e-cores. Set 1.325 Vcore -25% LLC and enable XMP and should be good starting point!


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

This is what I've managed so far with my new Dark. The power delivery system on this thing is nuts compared to the Apex I have.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Alberto_It said:


> @CENS I have got a brand new Z690 Dark Kingpin, can you please explain how to set the bios for a Oc profile?


Here's my profile if you want to try it..

Delete the .txt off the end for it to work right.

I haven't been able to run any of the preloads they give you. They seem to run to hot for my cooling solution which is nuts. I'm still getting used to the board though so maybe eventually. I tweaked this profile really good last night.


----------



## fat4l

david12900k said:


> I set adaptive voltage and I set it to the highest point voltage in the v/f curve. Then I modify the values in the v/f curve


I find this all confusing as hell.... what will I lose if iI just used manual voltage ?


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

fat4l said:


> I find this all confusing as hell.... what will I lose if iI just used manual voltage ?



It will put out more heat is all. Adaptive will let it adjust with the activity of the cpu and reach the peak you set when needed.


----------



## hemirunner426

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> This is what I've managed so far with my new Dark. The power delivery system on this thing is nuts compared to the Apex I have.
> 
> View attachment 2572370


5400mhz all core?


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

hemirunner426 said:


> 5400mhz all core?



I have it setup to adjust speed based on core usage. 1 and 2 cores being used is 5400 then I believe 3 thru 6 5300 7 thru 8 cores active 5200. It was a good way to get more power and less heat output at the same time and it worked out well for me.


----------



## hemirunner426

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> I have it setup to adjust speed based on core usage. 1 and 2 cores being used is 5400 then I believe 3 thru 6 5300 7 thru 8 cores active 5200. It was a good way to get more power and less heat output at the same time and it worked out well for me.


Yes agreed. Depending on where you want to be in light load situations, you can probably get 56/5700mhz on 1-2 cores with reasonable temps.
Either way, looks good!


----------



## hemirunner426

fat4l said:


> I find this all confusing as hell.... what will I lose if iI just used manual voltage ?


Manual voltage will generate more heat than needed at lower frequencies. 800MHz doesn't need 1.48v to function properly, as an example.

Adaptive voltage allows the CPU to scale voltage based on frequency. Adjustments can be made to the scaling via the v/f curve. When you set, for example, 1.45v adaptive, you'll also set the last v/f #11 slot for (Max turbo frequency) with an offset voltage to achieve 1.45v at maximum turbo frequency. The #11 offset is calculated by the Adaptive Voltage subtracted by VID at slot #7.

For example, if the default VID at slot #7 is 1344mv and you want a adaptive voltage at 1480mv, the offset at #11 will be 136mv.


----------



## Alberto_It

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Here's my profile if you want to try it..
> 
> Delete the .txt off the end for it to work right.
> 
> I haven't been able to run any of the preloads they give you. They seem to run to hot for my cooling solution which is nuts. I'm still getting used to the board though so maybe eventually. I tweaked this profile really good last night.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Alberto_It said:


> View attachment 2572462


Delete the .txt and load it onto a usb stick and load the profile within the BIOS profile section, choose usb stick and load it. I was on BIOS 1.04 though that might not matter.


----------



## Alberto_It

CENS said:


> Hi Alberto, on top left corner there is a drop down in the bios. There you can find wide selection for some base line OC profiles for you to explore.
> 
> Or you can just select sync all-core OC to 5.3GHz disable e-cores. Set 1.325 Vcore -25% LLC and enable XMP and should be good starting point!


I have another question for you, how do I flash the Bios via the button behind the motherboard "Flash Bios"? 

Thanks


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Alberto_It said:


> I have another question for you, how do I flash the Bios via the button behind the motherboard "Flash Bios"?
> 
> Thanks


Someone suggested I use 1.09 or 1.12 BIOS and I went with 1.09 and I'm able to run 1t finally at 6800MHz.

I flashed to the 1.09 BIOS via windows with the included evga flash tool.


----------



## Alberto_It

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Someone suggested I use 1.09 or 1.12 BIOS and I went with 1.09 and I'm able to run 1t finally at 6800MHz.
> 
> I flashed to the 1.09 BIOS via windows with the included evga flash tool.


 On the Evga website there's 1.15 version


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Alberto_It said:


> On the Evga website there's 1.15 version


You can click show all and you'll see them all. Correction uncheck show latest driver tik box.


----------



## Alberto_It

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> You can click show all and you'll see them all. Correction uncheck show latest driver tik box.
> 
> View attachment 2572508


I have seen only now . Thank you


----------



## gfunkernaught

@yzonker hey so yeah...I think the original ek quantum velocity's standoffs might be a tad too high as I learned that the 1700 socket is about 1mm shorter than the 115x socket. May be the reason why even at 1.235v I'm hitting 100c on very heavy loads.


----------



## yzonker

gfunkernaught said:


> @yzonker hey so yeah...I think the original ek quantum velocity's standoffs might be a tad too high as I learned that the 1700 socket is about 1mm shorter than the 115x socket. May be the reason why even at 1.235v I'm hitting 100c on very heavy loads.


Yea that would do it. Sounds like you've got a good chip, just need to sort out your cooling.


----------



## gfunkernaught

yzonker said:


> Yea that would do it. Sounds like you've got a good chip, just need to sort out your cooling.


Any recommendations on a solid high quality block for the 12900k? Heatkiller?


----------



## Ketku-

Hmm, i can get Delid 12900KS 97SP (107p/78e) about 600euros. Mine 12900K chip is average atm..

What you are mind guys? Worth buy anymore?


----------



## z390e

Seems like a great deal @Ketku-


----------



## bscool

Ketku- said:


> Hmm, i can get Delid 12900KS 97SP (107p/78e) about 600euros. Mine 12900K chip is average atm..
> 
> What you are mind guys? Worth buy anymore?


I would think a 13700k will be similar performance and I would rather "play" with the new 13th gen and they are so close to being released. 13th gen "should" have a better IMC I would think also.

Unless you have enough $$ to buy both then buy away.


----------



## Ketku-

z390e said:


> Seems like a great deal @Ketku-


Its good deal yea, but that mean i need start really overclock project.  I allways been say overclock is fun, but that cant see in any games for better results. Only in benchmark


----------



## gfunkernaught

bscool said:


> I would think a 13700k will be similar performance and I would rather "play" with the new 13th gen and they are so close to being released. 13th gen "should" have a better IMC I would think also.
> 
> Unless you have enough $$ to buy both then buy away.


13900ks would be a better buy...

Also, I've read that solder is a better thermal conductor than gallium (liquid metal). So delidding isn't really necessary anymore, although my non-delidded 12900ks is hitting 100c at 1.235v, I think it's the cooler.


----------



## Hfhjfg

gfunkernaught said:


> non-delidded 12900ks is hitting 100c at 1.235v


Its because of thermal paste. Apply liquid metal and you will get -10 degrees on the same cooler.


----------



## gfunkernaught

Hfhjfg said:


> Its because of thermal paste. Apply liquid metal and you will get -10 degrees on the same cooler.


I'm using kryonaut. Liquid metal between the IHS and block will really get a -10c decrease in max load?


----------



## Nizzen

gfunkernaught said:


> I'm using kryonaut. Liquid metal between the IHS and block will really get a -10c decrease in max load?


no


----------



## Falkentyne

gfunkernaught said:


> I'm using kryonaut. Liquid metal between the IHS and block will really get a -10c decrease in max load?


Without a delid (or reseal of the IHS with liquid metal/RTV silicone etc?).
That's 4-6C depending on what kind of cooler you're using.
That's still worth it depending on if you were smart enough to do good prep work for sealing the gaps around the IHS, as this gives you a few extra voltage mv bins before you reach the 'previous' paste only temperature, which can be nice to have.

LM + Delid+reseal (with LM) is about 12C.
Full direct die is 20C+, basically limited by your cooling solution and how fast the block can transfer heat from the direct die.

The biggest improvement is also the safest--just use the thermalright anti-bend bracket. That can drop your temps as much as if you tried LM on the IHS. And if you have a bad fit, LM on the IHS could be worse than regular paste (without the bracket being used to avoid bad contact).


----------



## Hfhjfg

gfunkernaught said:


> I'm using kryonaut. Liquid metal between the IHS and block will really get a -10c decrease in max load?


I tried 3 different types of cooling configurations:
1. Delided CPU with direct die waterblock








2. Stock IHS + thermal paste
3. Stock IHS + LM









Less effective is config #2, it can dissipate up to 255watts of heat on EK Velocity waterblock. CPU starts throttling at 255watts.

Config #3 can dissipate up to 295watts of heat before it starts throttling. At 255watts it runs about 12 degrees colder compared to #2

#1 is the most effective but also the most hassleful config. I was able to run CPU at 300+ watts.

imo #3 is the best balance between cooling performance VS application complexity. The only thing to consider is to protect socket from potential LM leak. I used sticky tape for this.

P.S. by "stock IHS" i mean completely stock IHS with Intel's factory solder.


----------



## bscool

@Hfhjfg Are you on Discord? I saw a couple different people test LM vs paste in IHS on 12th gen cpus and both saw 8-10c drops.

Your rig reminds me of one of them. The one guy is Stash and he also eventually went direct die. The other guy is Alf something??


----------



## acoustic

I went back to stock IHS (had Rockitcool copper) because copper ihs didn't fit with the Thermalright frame. Temps are better with stock IHS and the frame than they were with the copper IHS.

LM on the die, KPx on ihs


----------



## gfunkernaught

Falkentyne said:


> Without a delid (or reseal of the IHS with liquid metal/RTV silicone etc?).
> That's 4-6C depending on what kind of cooler you're using.
> That's still worth it depending on if you were smart enough to do good prep work for sealing the gaps around the IHS, as this gives you a few extra voltage mv bins before you reach the 'previous' paste only temperature, which can be nice to have.
> 
> LM + Delid+reseal (with LM) is about 12C.
> Full direct die is 20C+, basically limited by your cooling solution and how fast the block can transfer heat from the direct die.
> 
> The biggest improvement is also the safest--just use the thermalright anti-bend bracket. That can drop your temps as much as if you tried LM on the IHS. And if you have a bad fit, LM on the IHS could be worse than regular paste (without the bracket being used to avoid bad contact).


I do have the thermalright contact bracket, and used the ek backplate instead of the stock backplate. The stock backplate+ek backplate doesn't make sense, as it increases distance and introduces possible bending.


----------



## gfunkernaught

Hfhjfg said:


> I tried 3 different types of cooling configurations:
> 1. Delided CPU with direct die waterblock
> View attachment 2572840
> 
> 2. Stock IHS + thermal paste
> 3. Stock IHS + LM
> View attachment 2572841
> 
> 
> Less effective is config #2, it can dissipate up to 255watts of heat on EK Velocity waterblock. CPU starts throttling at 255watts.
> 
> Config #3 can dissipate up to 295watts of heat before it starts throttling. At 255watts it runs about 12 degrees colder compared to #2
> 
> #1 is the most effective but also the most hassleful config. I was able to run CPU at 300+ watts.
> 
> imo #3 is the best balance between cooling performance VS application complexity. The only thing to consider is to protect socket from potential LM leak. I used sticky tape for this.
> 
> P.S. by "stock IHS" i mean completely stock IHS with Intel's factory solder.


I could try putting LM between the IHS and block. Option #1 seems doable but like you said a hassle, but 20c colder? Hmmm.


----------



## bscool

gfunkernaught said:


> I do have the thermalright contact bracket, and used the ek backplate instead of the stock backplate. The stock backplate+ek backplate doesn't make sense, as it increases distance and introduces possible bending.


That is your setup? I remember you, you have the gap though now between the MB and backplate since you took MB backplate off. So not as much mounting pressure with that gap between the MB and the EK backplate and rubber spacer. There is no support directly under the CPU socket now.

Sounds like they are not good as I expected.

"I think the original ek quantum velocity's standoffs might be a tad too high as I learned that the 1700 socket is about 1mm shorter than the 115x socket. May be the reason why even at 1.235v I'm hitting 100c on very heavy loads."









PSA: EKWB Quantum Velocity LGA1700 back plate *better*...


I got the back plate and also bought the Thermalright contact bracket. So the major issue with the lga1700 back plate from EKWB is that the stock screws on the ILM will not reach the back plate, as well as not thread into it. You will have to use your own screws of the same diameter as the...




www.overclock.net







https://www.overclock.net/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.overclock.net/attachments/1663116872877-png.2572083/



I have the EK back plate so I know how it works and how there is a gap and you can see it in your pic. Your temps show the proof it doesnt work well.

But if it works for you that is all that matters.


----------



## gfunkernaught

bscool said:


> That is your setup? I remember you, you have the gap though now between the MB and backplate since you took MB backplate off. So not as much mounting pressure with that gap between the MB and the EK backplate and rubber spacer. There is no support directly under the CPU socket now.
> 
> Sounds like they are not good as I expected.
> 
> "I think the original ek quantum velocity's standoffs might be a tad too high as I learned that the 1700 socket is about 1mm shorter than the 115x socket. May be the reason why even at 1.235v I'm hitting 100c on very heavy loads."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PSA: EKWB Quantum Velocity LGA1700 back plate *better*...
> 
> 
> I got the back plate and also bought the Thermalright contact bracket. So the major issue with the lga1700 back plate from EKWB is that the stock screws on the ILM will not reach the back plate, as well as not thread into it. You will have to use your own screws of the same diameter as the...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.overclock.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.overclock.net/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.overclock.net/attachments/1663116872877-png.2572083/
> 
> 
> 
> I have the EK back plate so I know how it works and how there is a gap and you can see it in your pic. Your temps show the proof it doesnt work well.
> 
> But if it works for you that is all that matters.


Right. What I did is better than ek's method, but still not good enough. Especially if you want to use the Thermalright Contact Bracket. The main issue with the EK Quantum Velocity v1 are the standoffs. They're too short, even though they barely reach the backplate with the stock ILM and backplate. That setup bends the EK backplate, and probably creates a gap between the block and IHS. I could use longer screws that are the same thread as the EK spring nuts and try to get better pressure, OR fork over $150ish on a new block.


----------



## z390e

gfunkernaught said:


> my non-delidded 12900ks is hitting 100c at 1.235v, I think it's the cooler.


What type of cooler do you have?

I can totally run CB or even y-cruncher and never hit above 90c on my Liquid Freezer 2 AIO with my current 12900KS, with significantly higher voltage.


----------



## MIXEDGREENS

Getting a lot of mileage out of my thermalright frame right out of the gate. Havent even had time to play around with it outside of a few XTU runs but my h150i is finally behaving as expected and not like a hyper 212. Can also now get 5.2ghz all core bench stable which wouldn't happen at any voltage or LLC prior.

Then I check the underside of my original retention hardware and see this:









Not impressed with MSI quality control. Surprised the thing ran at all


----------



## bscool

MIXEDGREENS said:


> Getting a lot of mileage out of my thermalright frame right out of the gate. Havent even had time to play around with it outside of a few XTU runs but my h150i is finally behaving as expected and not like a hyper 212. Can also now get 5.2ghz all core bench stable which wouldn't happen at any voltage or LLC prior.
> 
> Then I check the underside of my original retention hardware and see this:
> View attachment 2572911
> 
> 
> Not impressed with MSI quality control. Surprised the thing ran at all


What am I not seeing? The crooked little black strip?


----------



## gfunkernaught

z390e said:


> What type of cooler do you have?
> 
> I can totally run CB or even y-cruncher and never hit above 90c on my Liquid Freezer 2 AIO with my current 12900KS, with significantly higher voltage.


EK Quantum Vector (original) for 1151 but I use the 1700 back plate.

CB never pushes above 88c for me but ycruncher test #2 or 3 I forget which one hits 100c easily.


----------



## MIXEDGREENS

bscool said:


> What am I not seeing? The crooked little black strip?


Yes sir. From what I read as little as a slightly overtorqued bolt can cause failure to post. It's weird all the engineering and precision manufacturing then they phone it in on CPU retention.

Anyone hitting weird stubborn clock walls on an MSI board should probably check for it.


----------



## EarlZ

Prior to Windows 11 22H2 update I was getting 26.9K on cinebench r23 (August 16 last saved screenshto) but now im just hitting 24.1k not sure why.


----------



## Ketku-

How many going jump 13900K or stay 12900K/KS overclocking?


----------



## energie80

everyone


----------



## Ketku-

energie80 said:


> everyone


Hahah! True that mate. So i am only who stay AlderLake?  

Have two options, oc mine 12900K or i can buy 12900KS (97sp/107p/78e)


----------



## energie80

im just build a custom loop base on 12900ks....


----------



## MIXEDGREENS

Ketku- said:


> How many going jump 13900K or stay 12900K/KS overclocking?


I'll probably sell my 12700k for a 13900k. Intel is a little too good at binning nowadays


----------



## Ichirou

EarlZ said:


> Prior to Windows 11 22H2 update I was getting 26.9K on cinebench r23 (August 16 last saved screenshto) but now im just hitting 24.1k not sure why.


It’s because Windows 11 sucks. 


Ketku- said:


> How many going jump 13900K or stay 12900K/KS overclocking?





Ketku- said:


> Hahah! True that mate. So i am only who stay AlderLake?
> 
> Have two options, oc mine 12900K or i can buy 12900KS (97sp/107p/78e)


Pretty much everyone’s going to go RPL unless they don’t have the budget for it. 

Don’t bother buying any ADL at this time.


----------



## EarlZ

Ichirou said:


> It’s because Windows 11 sucks.


Interesting..


----------



## z390e

sugi0lover said:


> Thanks to your support, I could finish INTEL OPEN OVERCLOCKING CHAMPIONSHIP well.


Incredible performance, you should join the Overclock.net team, lots of great people to learn from and share knowledge with.






Overclock.net @ HWBOT


Ranked 1 at HWBOT Team League




hwbot.org


----------



## z390e

Ketku- said:


> So i am only who stay AlderLake?
> 
> Have two options, oc mine 12900K or i can buy 12900KS (97sp/107p/78e)


I stay ADL also. RL looks good, I agree, but not playing silicon lottery again until they do some binning.

I say buy 12900KS, that SP is a very good one, put on water and enjoy a great chip


----------



## Ketku-

z390e said:


> I stay ADL also. RL looks good, I agree, but not playing silicon lottery again until they do some binning.
> 
> I say buy 12900KS, that SP is a very good one, put on water and enjoy a great chip


Yea, its looks good but that is true. How many 13900K need buy to get good.. 

But mate when overclocking 12900K / KS , you cant see the results in game if playing 1440p or 4K. That is sad 
This why i thinking it.. Buy or not 12900KS. My 12900K is avegare chip. Not bad not best, but can OC good results @ Benchmarks


----------



## gfunkernaught

Ketku- said:


> Yea, its looks good but that is true. How many 13900K need buy to get good..
> 
> But mate when overclocking 12900K / KS , you cant see the results in game if playing 1440p or 4K. That is sad
> This why i thinking it.. Buy or not 12900KS. My 12900K is avegare chip. Not bad not best, but can OC good results @ Benchmarks


Benchmarks were never really standard for gaming performance and experience. For example. 3dmark, Nvidia users have to change the texture filtering to high performance to get a higher score, but me personally I prefer quality over performance in games, so I set it accordingly. But I get what you mean.


----------



## Ketku-

gfunkernaught said:


> Benchmarks were never really standard for gaming performance and experience. For example. 3dmark, Nvidia users have to change the texture filtering to high performance to get a higher score, but me personally I prefer quality over performance in games, so I set it accordingly. But I get what you mean.


Yea, true mate.  But you was get what i mean, feels overclocking not get nothing anymore to games. :/

Only time spy scores etc..


----------



## gfunkernaught

Ketku- said:


> Yea, true mate.  But you was get what i mean, feels overclocking not get nothing anymore to games. :/
> 
> Only time spy scores etc..


Yes, and that is why I will no longer skimp or buy mid-range hardware. My boss from my job, whom I've known for 20 years, told me "Just buy the fastest processor why do you bother with overclocking?". 

Because it's fun, but now processors are already maxed out when you buy them, for the most part.


----------



## z390e

gfunkernaught said:


> My boss from my job, whom I've known for 20 years, told me "Just buy the fastest processor why do you bother with overclocking?".


Why not both???


----------



## Luggage

gfunkernaught said:


> Yes, and that is why I will no longer skimp or buy mid-range hardware. My boss from my job, whom I've known for 20 years, told me "Just buy the fastest processor why do you bother with overclocking?".
> 
> Because it's fun, but now processors are already maxed out when you buy them, for the most part.


Why buy a Ferrari and only drive it in the city?


----------



## z390e

the neat thing about Overclocking is there are a lot of different ways to enjoy it

some enjoy the constant tinkering
some enjoy the competition
some just want the best performing system

so many ways to have fun its hard not dive in with both feet lol


----------



## gfunkernaught

I agree with all these points. But trying to get mid-range hardware to perform like or close to high-end hardware is a waste of time in my opinion.


Luggage said:


> Why buy a Ferrari and only drive it in the city?


More accurately:
I say buy a ferrari instead of trying to make a civic into a ferrari


----------



## MIXEDGREENS

MIXEDGREENS said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TardCarnival`s XTU 2.0 score: 8532 marks with a Core i7 12700K
> 
> 
> The Core i7 12700K @ 5190MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the XTU 2.0 benchmark. TardCarnivalranks #null worldwide and #null in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hwbot.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 24th 'fastest' 12700k with quick and filthy overclock. 52 pcore 39 ecore 44 cache 4000MT ddr4. Higher on cache or ecores lowers score. Unstable as hell, watchdog timeout almost guaranteed by the third run of xtu benchmark.
> 
> Is ecore L2 voltage on a different plane? If not it looks like I'm maxed.


Thanks to my anti-bending frame I can run XTU 2 bench without any thermal throttling. 11 more points with 1x lower e-core multiplier than previous score. 24th highest 12700k score to 22nd.






TardCarnival`s XTU 2.0 score: 8543 marks with a Core i7 12700K


The Core i7 12700K @ 5180MHzscores getScoreFormatted in the XTU 2.0 benchmark. TardCarnivalranks #44 worldwide and #31 in the hardware class. Find out more at HWBOT.




hwbot.org


----------



## gfunkernaught

Installed the Heatkiller IV Pro with the Heavy Duty Backplate, used Kryonaut, 296w and 92c, not bad.


----------



## MIXEDGREENS

Probably some stupid setting I missed but does anyone know off the top of their head why my motherboard would be forcing a 4.9ghz clock for avx2 loads despite no offset set for it? It's 4.9 whether set for 5.0 or 5.1ghz


----------



## Ichirou

MIXEDGREENS said:


> Probably some stupid setting I missed but does anyone know off the top of their head why my motherboard would be forcing a 4.9ghz clock for avx2 loads despite no offset set for it? It's 4.9 whether set for 5.0 or 5.1ghz


Intel implicitly downclocks AVX2 past a certain frequency unless the motherboard BIOS is designed to circumvent it.

Many are forced to BCLK overclock as a workaround.


----------



## MIXEDGREENS

Ichirou said:


> Intel implicitly downclocks AVX2 past a certain frequency unless the motherboard BIOS is designed to circumvent it.
> 
> Many are forced to BCLK overclock as a workaround.


****. Thanks. I swear it didn't used to and I bet I'm going to find a recent OS microcode update.


----------



## Ichirou

MIXEDGREENS said:


> ****. Thanks. I swear it didn't used to and I bet I'm going to find a recent OS microcode update.


Yeah, most people aren't even aware unless they monitor their frequencies live on HWiNFO and see many cores dropping down.
I have no idea why Intel is downclocking people. ASUS seems to have circumvented it in their boards, though.
As for MSI, I still have to use the BCLK method to break past 5.2 GHz on a 12900.


----------



## gfunkernaught

Dumb question: Are you supposed raise the ring ratio along with core ratio? I read that ring ratio is the speed of the cache and everything but the core, so I raised mine to 44 from 43. Also raised e-core to 4.2 from 4.1, left p-core at 5.2, and dropped the vcore from 1.25v to 1.24, now running ycruncher...no crashes so far. I left the house with it running and will check back later.


----------



## yzonker

gfunkernaught said:


> Dumb question: Are you supposed raise the ring ratio along with core ratio? I read that ring ratio is the speed of the cache and everything but the core, so I raised mine to 44 from 43. Also raised e-core to 4.2 from 4.1, left p-core at 5.2, and dropped the vcore from 1.25v to 1.24, now running ycruncher...no crashes so far. I left the house with it running and will check back later.


Yea I think you just raise ring as high as is stable. It definitely helps latency.


----------



## Ichirou

gfunkernaught said:


> Dumb question: Are you supposed raise the ring ratio along with core ratio? I read that ring ratio is the speed of the cache and everything but the core, so I raised mine to 44 from 43. Also raised e-core to 4.2 from 4.1, left p-core at 5.2, and dropped the vcore from 1.25v to 1.24, now running ycruncher...no crashes so far. I left the house with it running and will check back later.


The Ring Ratio is separate from the Core Ratio. Improves cache (obviously) and reduces latency. Boost it as high as you can after you're done with overclocking the P- and E-cores.
Boosting L2 Cache Voltage helps with the Ring Ratio when your E-cores are enabled.


----------



## SyneWTD

I'm ready to start buying parts for my custom loop, but need to delid first. What's the best tool right now (or options to choose from) and for a direct die block, is Supercool still the best option? Am I also understanding the product correctly to think they're attaching the soft acrylic portion of the block with direct access to water to the IHS with no sort of seal or high temp gasket....? I've been on this forum for a while and just made the effort to actually create an account!!


----------



## hemirunner426

gfunkernaught said:


> Installed the Heatkiller IV Pro with the Heavy Duty Backplate, used Kryonaut, 296w and 92c, not bad.
> View attachment 2573201


How long did you let it run full load to reach 92c?

296w is pretty damn good.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk


----------



## Ichirou

SyneWTD said:


> I'm ready to start buying parts for my custom loop, but need to delid first. What's the best tool right now (or options to choose from) and for a direct die block, is Supercool still the best option? Am I also understanding the product correctly to think they're attaching the soft acrylic portion of the block with direct access to water to the IHS with no sort of seal or high temp gasket....? I've been on this forum for a while and just made the effort to actually create an account!!


You're forced to buy the RockIt Cool delid kit (which is constantly out of stock), and wait like 1-2 months for the Supercool direct die frame and waterblock. These are only confirmed to work with the 12th Gen. The Supercool kit essentially skips the IHS.

Honestly, at this point in time, skip the 12th Gen and see what the 13th Gen has to offer. You might not even need to direct die.


----------



## SyneWTD

Ichirou said:


> You're forced to buy the RockIt Cool delid kit (which is constantly out of stock), and wait like 1-2 months for the Supercool direct die frame and waterblock. These are only confirmed to work with the 12th Gen. The Supercool kit essentially skips the IHS.
> 
> Honestly, at this point in time, skip the 12th Gen and see what the 13th Gen has to offer. You might not even need to direct die.


This one? 12th Gen Delid & Relid Kit

Who makes that clear delid tool I've seen several people use?

Also makes sense that I should wait which I might, but besides cpu, I am also mainly doing a custom loop to watercool my ram. I am going to watercool my gpu but I have a 3080 12gb rn and will prob wait to get the 4090 to watercool instead. Not sure how I can deal with watercooling my ram only and cooling the cpu later, besides just making a temporary loop.


----------



## gfunkernaught

hemirunner426 said:


> How long did you let it run full load to reach 92c?
> 
> 296w is pretty damn good.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk


It was the ycruncher test #3 I think. It reached like 88-90c almost instantly and peaked at 92c. I wasn't looking for a miracle with the Heatkiller IV Pro but it is a major improvement over the EK Quantum Velocity v1 and my attempt to mount it. The Heatkiller is very much a superior block over EK. The whole installation was easy and all the screws threaded to a final point. The EK block screws felt uneven and I could always tighten one screw more than another.


----------



## Falkentyne

gfunkernaught said:


> It was the ycruncher test #3 I think. It reached like 88-90c almost instantly and peaked at 92c. I wasn't looking for a miracle with the Heatkiller IV Pro but it is a major improvement over the EK Quantum Velocity v1 and my attempt to mount it. The Heatkiller is very much a superior block over EK. The whole installation was easy and all the screws threaded to a final point. The EK block screws felt uneven and I could always tighten one screw more than another.


Oh you mean the SFT test right?


----------



## gfunkernaught

Falkentyne said:


> Oh you mean the SFT test right?


I think so. I always run option #7 all tests, just tried to do 12 or 13 at the second step to confirm if it is test 2 or 3 but it starts at 1. But yeah definitely #2 or #3.


----------



## Ichirou

SyneWTD said:


> This one? 12th Gen Delid & Relid Kit
> 
> Who makes that clear delid tool I've seen several people use?
> 
> Also makes sense that I should wait which I might, but besides cpu, I am also mainly doing a custom loop to watercool my ram. I am going to watercool my gpu but I have a 3080 12gb rn and will prob wait to get the 4090 to watercool instead. Not sure how I can deal with watercooling my ram only and cooling the cpu later, besides just making a temporary loop.


The clear one was made by Supercool in an extremely limited first edition run, which was bundled with the kit. The dude quickly stopped producing them, though.
Now you're forced to get the one by RockIt Cool, which is constantly out of stock.

You'd have better luck buying EK's knockoff one, but again, the 13th Gen is just around the corner, making it kind of pointless now.


----------



## SyneWTD

Ichirou said:


> The clear one was made by Supercool in an extremely limited first edition run, which was bundled with the kit. The dude quickly stopped producing them, though.
> Now you're forced to get the one by RockIt Cool, which is constantly out of stock.
> 
> You'd have better luck buying EK's knockoff one, but again, the 13th Gen is just around the corner, making it kind of pointless now.


Gotcha and yes I wanna wait and see if the IMC on 13th gen is better. I can't get 4133 stable on 12th but I also havent raised voltage to 1.6 yet cuz ram starts to go above 45C.


----------



## Ichirou

SyneWTD said:


> Gotcha and yes I wanna wait and see if the IMC on 13th gen is better. I can't get 4133 stable on 12th but I also havent raised voltage to 1.6 yet cuz ram starts to go above 45C.


It should be. Most people with a 12900 got stuck at 4,000 MHz Gear 1 stable, with stronger IMCs being able to do up to 4,133 and even better ones up to 4,266 stable.
4,300+ stable is top 0.1% tier, while I have only seen a single person with a chip that could boot 4,400 MHz.

For my particular 12900KF, I can do up to 4,200 MHz CL14 stable with 4x16 GB Micron B-die, but I don't like the VCCSA required for that (about 1.40V).
I have it set to 4,133 MHz instead and 1.35V VCCSA for now.
This same chip can do 4,266 MHz stable with Samsung B-die, so long as I ignore the VCCSA required.

I'll be grabbing a 13900K on launch just to see if I can push the frequency even higher.


----------



## Thanh Nguyen

Anyone know when the new cpu is out?


----------



## Nizzen

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Anyone know when the new cpu is out?


When Intel says so....


----------



## Telstar

20th october i think


----------



## nickolp1974

Thanh Nguyen said:


> Anyone know when the new cpu is out?


too long away, i was nearly tempted by AMD but think i will stick with Raptor now


----------



## RichKnecht

I'm in the same situation. My X299 Extreme Omega took a dump and now I am running my 10980 on an old X299 Strix board which isn't working too well. I'm looking at a MSI DDR4 Tamohawk board and a 12900K so I can use my 64GB of b-die GSkill memory. I really don't think I can deal with how this rig is running for too long. I can get the MSI board and 12900K for $749 at my local Microcenter. I don't game at all and this is strictly a photo/video editing machine. Thoughts?


----------



## gfunkernaught

RichKnecht said:


> I'm in the same situation. My X299 Extreme Omega took a dump and now I am running my 10980 on an old X299 Strix board which isn't working too well. I'm looking at a MSI DDR4 Tamohawk board and a 12900K so I can use my 64GB of b-die GSkill memory. I really don't think I can deal with how this rig is running for too long. I can get the MSI board and 12900K for $749 at my local Microcenter. I don't game at all and this is strictly a photo/video editing machine. Thoughts?


I was also thinking that before I got the 12900ks. I do a lot more photo editing/multi-threaded processing than gaming now. I almost went $1k CPU but wanted to wait a bit. So far the 12900k has been good for those kinds of tasks. I do astrophotography and stacking 100s of images takes a lot of MT power. Some apps use the GPU which is nice, but CUDA programming is difficult from what I've heard. If I were to build a strictly editing machine I'd go for a higher core count, more than the 12900k.

For the ram though, is higher data transfer rate better than latency for large raw data processing?


----------



## RichKnecht

gfunkernaught said:


> I was also thinking that before I got the 12900ks. I do a lot more photo editing/multi-threaded processing than gaming now. I almost went $1k CPU but wanted to wait a bit. So far the 12900k has been good for those kinds of tasks. I do astrophotography and stacking 100s of images takes a lot of MT power. Some apps use the GPU which is nice, but CUDA programming is difficult from what I've heard. If I were to build a strictly editing machine I'd go for a higher core count, more than the 12900k.
> 
> For the ram though, is higher data transfer rate better than latency for large raw data processing?


I was thinking of the KS, but at $200 more then the K, I'm not sure I'd notice that much difference. Using a 3090Ti here and when the 10980 was on the Omega, I had no complaints.The Strix just can't handle this chip. I take 1000s of photos each week as I photograph dog shows and after this weekend's show, this machine is killing me


----------



## Ichirou

gfunkernaught said:


> I was also thinking that before I got the 12900ks. I do a lot more photo editing/multi-threaded processing than gaming now. I almost went $1k CPU but wanted to wait a bit. So far the 12900k has been good for those kinds of tasks. I do astrophotography and stacking 100s of images takes a lot of MT power. Some apps use the GPU which is nice, but CUDA programming is difficult from what I've heard. If I were to build a strictly editing machine I'd go for a higher core count, more than the 12900k.
> 
> For the ram though, is higher data transfer rate better than latency for large raw data processing?


If you're only encoding or rendering, you don't need to minimize latency. Go for higher bandwidth.


----------



## gfunkernaught

Ichirou said:


> If you're only encoding or rendering, you don't need to minimize latency. Go for higher bandwidth.


Isn't encoding a heavily parallel task? If you or anyone here is familiar with astrophotography, you'll know what I mean by stacking. Takes many many raw images, average out the pixel colors, then re-draw a final image. Sometimes, especially when the number of raws are high, this can crush a cpu. Also depends on how well the software is coded and uses the cpu. Most of the data gets loaded into memory. Drizzing is like supersampling, and I need to open multiple super-sampled images at once in photoshop, there are times when I gave 24/32GB of memory used. In those kinds of scenarios I wonder if higher bandwidth vs lower latency would help. I bought the 5600mhz over the 6200mhz kit because I figured better latency=good, but now I'm thinking maybe higher bandwidth might be better for parallel tasks and lots of data transfer from storage to cpu to ram and back.


----------



## gfunkernaught

RichKnecht said:


> I was thinking of the KS, but at $200 more then the K, I'm not sure I'd notice that much difference. Using a 3090Ti here and when the 10980 was on the Omega, I had no complaints.The Strix just can't handle this chip. I take 1000s of photos each week as I photograph dog shows and after this weekend's show, this machine is killing me


I went with KS because my local microcenter has staff that know which cpus are highly binned I swear! I remember a few years ago, one of the off-duty sales reps was requesting a specific sku. I've never got a good binned cpu from microcenter until the KS. I do remember long time ago, overclocking a Core2Duo to 4ghz! That was fun!


----------



## Ichirou

gfunkernaught said:


> Isn't encoding a heavily parallel task? If you or anyone here is familiar with astrophotography, you'll know what I mean by stacking. Takes many many raw images, average out the pixel colors, then re-draw a final image. Sometimes, especially when the number of raws are high, this can crush a cpu. Also depends on how well the software is coded and uses the cpu. Most of the data gets loaded into memory. Drizzing is like supersampling, and I need to open multiple super-sampled images at once in photoshop, there are times when I gave 24/32GB of memory used. In those kinds of scenarios I wonder if higher bandwidth vs lower latency would help. I bought the 5600mhz over the 6200mhz kit because I figured better latency=good, but now I'm thinking maybe higher bandwidth might be better for parallel tasks and lots of data transfer from storage to cpu to ram and back.


Well, you don't really have much to gain with a lower latency. For production-related software, I'd usually advise bandwidth. There's more gains to be had with a larger thoroughput.
But really, it's something you have to test and compare for yourself to know. Every use-case is different.

If there are benchmarks for your particular software online somewhere in the past with regards to memory, consult those. They will shed some light.


----------



## gfunkernaught

Ichirou said:


> Well, you don't really have much to gain with a lower latency. For production-related software, I'd usually advise bandwidth. There's more gains to be had with a larger thoroughput.
> But really, it's something you have to test and compare for yourself to know. Every use-case is different.
> 
> If there are benchmarks for your particular software online somewhere in the past with regards to memory, consult those. They will shed some light.


Yeah that's what I'm figuring out now. I may sell this 32GB kit for a 64GB higher BW later down the line.


----------



## IronAge

For productivity AMDs 7950X is the better choice, and AM5 will have a much longer life cycle. 

SB needs to whip Intels butt for disabling AVX-512.


----------



## tubs2x4

EarlZ said:


> Prior to Windows 11 22H2 update I was getting 26.9K on cinebench r23 (August 16 last saved screenshto) but now im just hitting 24.1k not sure why.


Tech yes city YouTube guy was having bad studders with new amd cpu and win 11 22h2 update. Reverted back to 21h2 and much better.


----------



## energie80

hello everyone, im new to intel platform, always used amd.
i just trying tolcock my 12900ks with a unify x and i cant go past 53x all cores overclck, any reason?


----------



## Nizzen

energie80 said:


> hello everyone, im new to intel platform, always used amd.
> i just trying tolcock my 12900ks with a unify x and i cant go past 53x all cores overclck, any reason?


You need better cooler 
Play games with 54 is often no problem. Protip: Don't play Cinebench, if you are overclocking


----------



## z390e

Nizzen said:


> You need better cooler
> Play games with 54 is often no problem.


FWIW Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420 handles 5.4 all core no problem.










It can't handle y-cruncher at AVX2 offset of 0 but it still handles 5.4 all core in games no problem, and even Cinebench.


----------



## tps3443

bscool said:


> @Hfhjfg Are you on Discord? I saw a couple different people test LM vs paste in IHS on 12th gen cpus and both saw 8-10c drops.
> 
> Your rig reminds me of one of them. The one guy is Stash and he also eventually went direct die. The other guy is Alf something??


Liquidmetal vs thermalpaste is always 11C cooler. Liquid metal consumes less power, and shows lower voltage too! 

I tested this with my bare die 11900K. This testing was done inside of a 30 minute time period. Same ambient room temps, and same water temps, and the exact same bios settings from run to run.


*Kingpin KPX Thermalpaste R23*









*LIQUID METAL R23*


----------



## z390e

For ADL it surely does seem as if Direct Die and ideally a chiller is the ideal performance setup outside of stuff like LN2/Dice/Staged etc.

My guess is (as others noted here) that the power delivery changes and temperature issues we saw in ADL are _mostly_ resolved in RL.


----------



## tps3443

z390e said:


> For ADL it surely does seem as if Direct Die and ideally a chiller is the ideal performance setup outside of stuff like LN2/Dice/Staged etc.
> 
> My guess is (as others noted here) that the power delivery changes and temperature issues we saw in ADL are _mostly_ resolved in RL.


I’ve got a awesome setup for Raptor Lake. It’s going to be cooled with a Optimus Signature V2 Nickel waterblock, 1,080x45 external copper radiator, (2) D5’s, and a 1/2HP water chiller is tied directly in to my loop for 24/7 chilling. My computer thinks it’s always winter time. 

Especially seeing the silicon is larger than 12th gen, this is going to be a fun CPU to play with.


----------



## Ichirou

tps3443 said:


> I’ve got a awesome setup for Raptor Lake. It’s going to be cooled with a Optimus Signature V2 Nickel waterblock, 1,080x45 external copper radiator, (2) D5’s, and a 1/2HP water chiller is tied directly in to my loop for 24/7 chilling. My computer thinks it’s always winter time.
> 
> Especially seeing the silicon is larger than 12th gen, this is going to be a fun CPU to play with.


Here's hoping a delidding kit is available for it as well. Or whether the 12th Gen one is confirmed to work just fine.


----------



## gfunkernaught

Chillers seem overkill for daily oc. Even 5.2ghz vs 5.4ghz is pointless unless you're benching. As long as your chip isn't hitting 100c or close to tjmax, you should be fine. I have the ks, and found the lowest possible vcore I can set for 5.2/4.2/4.3, which right now is at 1.23v, for daily oc.


----------



## tps3443

gfunkernaught said:


> Chillers seem overkill for daily oc. Even 5.2ghz vs 5.4ghz is pointless unless you're benching. As long as your chip isn't hitting 100c or close to tjmax, you should be fine. I have the ks, and found the lowest possible vcore I can set for 5.2/4.2/4.3, which right now is at 1.23v, for daily oc.


That’s the nice thing about it. I can just turn the temp up a few degrees higher than my water temp, and it won’t kick on at all. My cooling is good enough to where I don’t need a chiller.

Water chillers are like a mini fridge though. it kicks on every few minutes and runs for like 10-20 seconds at a time and turns back off. It just blends in with the room noise. My kids are way louder LOL.

If I’m feeling extreme, I run my chiller. If I’m feeling ECO OC I leave it off. It is the ultimate in flexibility. especially when it’s really hot during the summer months. I can maintain whatever temps I want, when I want to. Especially because I bench frequently. I can say F’it and go full blast by pressing a button.


----------



## gfunkernaught

tps3443 said:


> That’s the nice thing about it. I can just turn the temp up a few degrees higher than my water temp, and it won’t kick on at all. My cooling is good enough to where I don’t need a chiller.
> 
> Water chillers are like a mini fridge though. it kicks on every few minutes and runs for like 10-20 seconds at a time and turns back off. It just blends in with the room noise. My kids are way louder LOL.
> 
> If I’m feeling extreme, I run my chiller. If I’m feeling ECO OC I leave it off. It is the ultimate in flexibility. especially when it’s really hot during the summer months. I can maintain whatever temps I want, when I want to. Especially because I bench frequently. I can say F’it and go full blast by pressing a button.


I wait til the winter if I want to extreme oc and bench. Bring the effer outside to the garage. Although now I have the 1000D not sure how much I desire an outdoor winter bench...🤷


----------



## yzonker

tps3443 said:


> That’s the nice thing about it. I can just turn the temp up a few degrees higher than my water temp, and it won’t kick on at all. My cooling is good enough to where I don’t need a chiller.
> 
> Water chillers are like a mini fridge though. it kicks on every few minutes and runs for like 10-20 seconds at a time and turns back off. It just blends in with the room noise. My kids are way louder LOL.
> 
> If I’m feeling extreme, I run my chiller. If I’m feeling ECO OC I leave it off. It is the ultimate in flexibility. especially when it’s really hot during the summer months. I can maintain whatever temps I want, when I want to. Especially because I bench frequently. I can say F’it and go full blast by pressing a button.


I have my chiller and extra pump on smart plugs so I can turn them on/off at my desk. The nice thing is the chiller remembers its settings even without power.


----------



## tps3443

gfunkernaught said:


> I wait til the winter if I want to extreme oc and bench. Bring the effer outside to the garage. Although now I have the 1000D not sure how much I desire an outdoor winter bench...🤷


Yeah I’m good on all that. Just stay indoors and bench away lol. Once you go chiller you won’t go back though. I think locking to a certain water temp is probably the most useful way to run one. It’s surprising how cool these parts run with just a 68F water temp.


----------



## Ichirou

tps3443 said:


> Yeah I’m good on all that. Just stay indoors and bench away lol. Once you go chiller you won’t go back though. I think locking to a certain water temp is probably the most useful way to run one. It’s surprising how cool these parts run with just a 68F water temp.


I genuinely considered it... until I realized that I don't really have the space for it lol. The cost isn't a big deal.
And with the 13th Gen being much better, I will probably be content on just standard water cooling.


----------



## tps3443

Ichirou said:


> I genuinely considered it... until I realized that I don't really have the space for it lol. The cost isn't a big deal.
> And with the 13th Gen being much better, I will probably be content on just standard water cooling.


It’s gonna be a longggg wait. I wish they’d release these chips sooner.


----------



## Ichirou

tps3443 said:


> It’s gonna be a longggg wait. I wish they’d release these chips sooner.


One month won't hurt. Just do something else in the meanwhile.


----------



## yzonker

Ichirou said:


> One month won't hurt. Just do something else in the meanwhile.


Buy a 4090 to hold you over? 😁


----------



## Ichirou

yzonker said:


> Buy a 4090 to hold you over? 😁


I rarely game nowadays, if ever


----------



## gfunkernaught

Ya know, water chiller, a small one, some quick connect plugs, T-taps....makes me wonder...🤔🤔


----------



## tps3443

gfunkernaught said:


> Ya know, water chiller, a small one, some quick connect plugs, T-taps....makes me wonder...🤔🤔


If you are doing a CPU only. Then I’d say 1/4HP is ideal. If you are cooling CPU and GPU combined then 1/2HP is ideal. I would not use less than that.


----------



## Talon2016

tps3443 said:


> It’s gonna be a longggg wait. I wish they’d release these chips sooner.


Spend the last days with that cherry 11900K. It’s such a fun and unique CPU. Won’t be long and you’ll have your 13900K up and running and spending evenings trying to clock it the last bit.


----------



## yzonker

tps3443 said:


> If you are doing a CPU only. Then I’d say 1/4HP is ideal. If you are cooling CPU and GPU combined then 1/2HP is ideal. I would not use less than that.


1/4 HP is plenty for CPU/GPU. That's what I have (Active Aqua). It can maintain low teens with a 600w load (runs continuously). Has no trouble at all holding 20C. Just cycles on/off. The key is lots of flow for them to work efficiently. That's why I have a PMP-500 as the aux pump on the chiller. 

In fact, at least for the Active Aqua, the 1/2 HP model does not have that much more capacity according the specs (3010 vs 4020 Btu). Not sure why. At least in that brand, you have to step up to the full 1HP model to get a big increase in capacity. Flow requirements are very high for those large units though. I've wondered how much better they would really work with our relatively very low flow in our loops.


----------



## gfunkernaught

@yzonker @tps3443 So a 1/4HP chiller would be enough to cool even a large loop like mine? 2x360 and 2x480, dual pump, res, cpu + gpu blocks...The whole system is around 3L. Not sure if this matters but maybe it does: My tubes are 5/8" ID.

Btw, LOOK AT WHAT YOU'RE DOING TO ME NOW!!!


----------



## Luggage

If planning for chiller - A gentle reminder to bypass your rads while chilling below ambient or the rads will work against the chiller and heat your liquid.


----------



## tps3443

yzonker said:


> 1/4 HP is plenty for CPU/GPU. That's what I have (Active Aqua). It can maintain low teens with a 600w load (runs continuously). Has no trouble at all holding 20C. Just cycles on/off. The key is lots of flow for them to work efficiently. That's why I have a PMP-500 as the aux pump on the chiller.
> 
> In fact, at least for the Active Aqua, the 1/2 HP model does not have that much more capacity according the specs (3010 vs 4020 Btu). Not sure why. At least in that brand, you have to step up to the full 1HP model to get a big increase in capacity. Flow requirements are very high for those large units though. I've wondered how much better they would really work with our relatively very low flow in our loops.



I know some places list the BTU’s wrong.

The standard 1/4HP chiller is 2,300 BTU’s and will work fine I imagine. But trust me, the 1/2HP provides a HUGE difference either way. It’s double in size with 70%+ more power in cooling performance.


But, I will look in to your info about pumps. Is that PMP500 loud? Vibrate a lot? Thank you.


----------



## yzonker

tps3443 said:


> I know some places list the BTU’s wrong.
> 
> The standard 1/4HP chiller is 2,300 BTU’s and will work fine I suppose. But trust me, the 1/2HP provides a HUGE difference either way. It’s double in size with 70%+ more power in cooling performance.
> 
> 
> But, I will look in to your info about pumps. Is that PMP500 loud? Vibrate a lot? Thank you.
> 
> View attachment 2573874


Those numbers are straight from the manuals for the chillers. I even back calculated the numbers by using the cooling curves (temperature vs time for a given volume of water) in the same manuals and it came out close to the same ratio.


----------



## yzonker

Luggage said:


> If planning for chiller - A gentle reminder to bypass your rads while chilling below ambient or the rads will work against the chiller and heat your liquid.


It's actually fairly minimal if you turn your fans off. I just set up my fan curves to go to zero below 24C or so. The bigger loss is flow rate which hurts efficiency as I said before.


----------



## yzonker

gfunkernaught said:


> @yzonker @tps3443 So a 1/4HP chiller would be enough to cool even a large loop like mine? 2x360 and 2x480, dual pump, res, cpu + gpu blocks...The whole system is around 3L. Not sure if this matters but maybe it does: My tubes are 5/8" ID.
> 
> Btw, LOOK AT WHAT YOU'RE DOING TO ME NOW!!!


The numbers I mentioned a few posts back were with the loop running through everything. This was my previous build (AMD rig). 

2xCL480
1x360
1x280
2xD5
1xPMP-500
CPU/GPU blocks


----------



## tps3443

yzonker said:


> It's actually fairly minimal if you turn your fans off. I just set up my fan curves to go to zero below 24C or so. The bigger loss is flow rate which hurts efficiency as I said before.


Thats something I’d like to look in to. More flow rate. I only have (2) D5’s. But, I feel like it won’t help me? Maybe I’m wrong though. Even with a massive 1080x45 radiator hooked up fans off. And 700-800 watts of load sustaining 10c liquid is not hard at all. If I wrap my radiator with a thick towel, I can do a slightly better.

Power usage I am just adding GPU wattage and CPU wattage per HWInfo. Not sure what the whole system is.

I just bought 10ft of tubing and new fittings so I can go through everything and redo it all once the 13900K shows up.


----------



## gecko991

It would work fine on a solid loop with rez.


----------



## tps3443

Talon2016 said:


> Spend the last days with that cherry 11900K. It’s such a fun and unique CPU. Won’t be long and you’ll have your 13900K up and running and spending evenings trying to clock it the last bit.


Yeah it’s been a fun chip. Looking forward to trying out something different.


----------



## Ichirou

tps3443 said:


> Yeah it’s been a fun chip. Looking forward to trying out something different.


Didn't you only have it for a few months max, since you kept binning them? Lol


----------



## z390e

Pushed it to 31027 on CB23, temps still under 90c on the Liquid Freezer 420 AIO. Sitting ~1.3vcore, I have concerns pushing it much higher voltage wise with an AIO. I suspect delided/direct die this chip could do easily 5.6 all core.


----------



## Ketku-

I've thought about replacing my 12900K, even though it's an average chip. 12900KS instead, what do you think? Z690 Apex, Ram are water, Heavy Custom Loop.

That 13900K didn't interest me at all.


----------



## Ichirou

Ketku- said:


> I've thought about replacing my 12900K, even though it's an average chip. 12900KS instead, what do you think? Z690 Apex, Ram are water, Heavy Custom Loop.
> 
> That 13900K didn't interest me at all.


Get the 13900K.


----------



## energie80

Why not 13900?


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

hello, i just got an i9-12900KS (exchanged 12900K).

I just installed it and am looking at the SP scores. The P cores have an SP 97 rating, which is ok. But the E-Cores come in at SP 37??? Is this normal? It has broughty overall SP down to 77.

For reference, my previous 12900K had an overall SP of 86, P-Core 94, E-Core 68.

Should i try reinstalling the bios?


----------



## Ichirou

fitnessgrampacertest said:


> hello, i just got an i9-12900KS (exchanged 12900K).
> 
> I just installed it and am looking at the SP scores. The P cores have an SP 97 rating, which is ok. But the E-Cores come in at SP 37??? Is this normal? Should i try reinstalling the bios?


Probably outdated BIOS. Try a newer one.


----------



## fitnessgrampacertest

Ichirou said:


> Probably outdated BIOS. Try a newer one.


No thats not the problem. Im running the Latest V.2004 bios. Ive been using this Bios since it was released two weeks ago. I always keep my BIOS, ME interface, and chipset drivers up to date


----------



## Ichirou

Paging @bscool


----------



## Falkentyne

Ichirou said:


> Paging @bscool


Hi.
@bscool is busy dreaming about Z790 Apex so I took his place.
VID may be reported incorrectly on CPU's first installed in a socket. My total SP94 (which performs exactly like an SP78 should!!!) 12900k QS turns into SP78 whenever I remove the CPU from the socket and reinsert it and the BIOS says "new CPU installed." It eventually changes to SP94 again after another BIOS flash, but seeing how poorly it OC's, maybe SP78 is more accurate.

Since it's impossible for a 12900KS of any type to have an E core of 3x, it's probably the e-cores having the same VID as the P-cores, which shouldn't happen.
You can try one of three things to fix it.

1) Unplug PSU and remove the CPU from the socket and reinsert it and don't break any pins and see what happens.
2) Unplug PSU, press the clear CMOS button, remove the CPU from the socket, then press the clear CMOS button again (if it's an onboard jumper pins, short them with a jumper block, or if there is on jumper block (e.g. a LN2 jumper) on the board, use a screwdriver, just make sure you put the original jumper back where you found it), then reinsert the CPU, plug in the PSU, turn the PSU back switch on BUT NOT the motherboard power, then do clear CMOS a third time, and pray for results.
3) If you are NOT on BIOS 2004, flash back to 1 bios version, then flash forward to another BIOS version (2004 cannot be downgraded).

This is all you can do.


----------



## yzonker

Is anyone running Firestrike on Win10? I'm using a stripped down version of Win10 for benching which seems to work fine for any TS/TSE/PR, but Firestrike scores very low even on the graphics tests. It appears to be a thread director problem with it using the e-cores as disabling e-cores brings the graphics score up where it should be but of course tanks the physics score.

I've seen good scores on HWBot with a 12900k and Win10, so seems like it can work, but something is borked in my install I guess?


----------



## z390e

I dont understand how your ecores could be clocked that low unless you have the vcore for the ecores set wrong.


----------



## gecko991

Here is fire strike on windows 10.


----------



## yzonker

z390e said:


> I dont understand how your ecores could be clocked that low unless you have the vcore for the ecores set wrong.


They're clocked at 4.1. I don't get it either. And like I said, everything else seems to work fine. Maybe it has something to do with it being a stripped down version. But here's a basic ambient run I did just with my daily CPU OC (5.2/4.1/4.3) and the GPU at +210 in Win11.









I scored 44 741 in Fire Strike


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com





Then here's the run I made a while ago with everything maxed out using my chiller in Win10.









I scored 43 653 in Fire Strike


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com





Compare,









Result







www.3dmark.com


----------



## yzonker

Ok, false alarm. It's either the old driver I've been using for benching or because I did a clean install. Have to test the old one again when I get time, but this is even better than the Win11 score now.

Win10








I scored 46 067 in Fire Strike


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 10}




www.3dmark.com





Win11








I scored 44 741 in Fire Strike


Intel Core i9-12900K Processor, NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090 x 1, 32768 MB, 64-bit Windows 11}




www.3dmark.com





Edit: definitely the older driver. Score tanked again when I put it back on.


----------



## ajolly

Ichirou said:


> Get the 13900K.


How much better do we think the 13900k will be? I finally got my hands on a decent KS. Got it running at all core x54, 2core x56 without too much work, hoping I can boost that single core up without volting this too high. 








\











Freq MHz DTS C VID mv PC Eff Fr UCcode 0x1f VR Volt Limit 2500
----------------------------------------------------
5500 34 1459 55 590 Uncore 4000 IA AC LL 0.5999
5400 26 1376 54 113 Power 76.273 IA DC LL 1.7500
5400 28 1412 54 111 Current Limit 0.0000 SA AC LL 0.0000
5400 28 1412 54 121 iccmax 1023 SA DC LL 0.0000
5400 32 1411 54 113 PL1 32760 iccmax dis True
5400 28 1411 54 128 PL2 32760 TAU 33
5400 64 1417 56 5414 Memory 5200 PPP_OVR True
5500 36 1451 56 822 EE_Turbo_Dis True RTH_Dis True
4000 44 1475 40 144 Dis_Ring_EE False HWGuidedSch True
4000 28 1480 40 91 IA_CEP_Dis True Dynamic_Mem True
Full_Range_Multi False SA_Freq_OVR False
TSC_Dis_HW False Banding_Ratio 0
PVD_Ratio_thresh 0 SA_CEP_Dis True
FLL OC Mode 0 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Core Voltage Adapt 1545 Ring Voltage Adapt 0 Core PLL V 900 
Core Voltage Offset -1 Ring Voltage Offset 0 Ring PLL V 900 
L2 Voltage Adapt 0 L2 Voltage Offset 0 AVX512 Offset 1 
SA Voltage Offset 0 Ring VID 0 MC PLL V 900 
AVX Offset 0 AVX2 V Guardband 0 AVX512 V Guardband 0 
SA Voltage Manual 1150 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Turbo Ratio Limit 57, 57, 55, 54, 54, 54, 54, 54 Core OCMB Max Ratio 57 Ring Min Ratio 40 
Turbo Limit Cores 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 Ring OCMB Max Ratio 40 Ring Max Ratio 40 
Atom Ratio Limit 40, 40, 40, 40, 40, 40, 40, 40 Atom Limit Cores 255, 255, 255, 255, 255, 255, 255, 255Atom OCMB Max Ratio 0 
OS Max Ratio 34 HWP Min Ratio 43 HWP Max Ratio 255 
Max Possible Core 40 Max Possible Ring 40 UCLK 2600 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OC Lock false OC Capable true
OC Bins Unlimited FIVR Spread % 4294967040. 
BCLK Aware true FIVR FSW MHz 3803699. 
Ring Downbin Disabled true IVR Faults Disabled false 
TVB Clipping Disabled true IVR Efficiency Disabled false 
TVB V Opt Disabled true Gear Mode 2 
TVB VMax Sress Disabled true


----------



## Ketku-

Here, I'm still asking you for your opinion when the machine is fully used for gaming only..

The purpose would be to start overclocking properly as soon as the Contact Frame arrives. E-Cores enable or disable, which one are better for gaming?

Of course, if E-Cores is disabled, the Ring will go higher. Apex+12900K+G.Skill CL32 6400 is setup.


----------



## Ichirou

Ketku- said:


> Here, I'm still asking you for your opinion when the machine is fully used for gaming only..
> 
> The purpose would be to start overclocking properly as soon as the Contact Frame arrives. E-Cores enable or disable, which one are better for gaming?
> 
> Of course, if E-Cores is disabled, the Ring will go higher. Apex+12900K+G.Skill CL32 6400 is setup.


If you're a pure gamer, disable the E-cores and push the cache up.


----------



## Ketku-

Ichirou said:


> If you're a pure gamer, disable the E-cores and push the cache up.


Yea mate, i am.  Only reading internet and playing games and ofcourse overclocking.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Ketku- said:


> Yea mate, i am.  Only reading internet and playing games and ofcourse overclocking.


Depends what OS and what games you're playing as well as warzone benefits from the e-cores.


----------



## Ketku-

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Depends what OS and what games you're playing as well as warzone benefits from the e-cores.


Windows 10 ofcourse and 1440p 3080ti  Yea i hear that Warzone using them. But If want make benchmark records, ecores maybe need :/


----------



## energie80

FreeSpeechIsKnowledge said:


> Depends what OS and what games you're playing as well as warzone benefits from the e-cores.


Really? I got them disabled 😅


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Ketku- said:


> Windows 10 ofcourse and 1440p 3080ti  Yea i hear that Warzone using them. But If want make benchmark records, ecores maybe need :/


IMO just leave them on and push them as hard as you can. I run 4300 on cache 4300 on ecores and 5500 pcores with a custom per core overclock as well that scores and runs very nicely for my daily overclock.


----------



## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

energie80 said:


> Really? I got them disabled 😅


Yep.


----------



## SyneWTD

I found latency and fps to be better with e-cores disabled. With a 3080 12gb, on my 12900K I run 51x, atom disabled, 49x ring on 4000mhz bdie and get 190-230 fps - 121 render res (ex: 100 is 1080p and 133 is 1440p), and no stutters. Waiting to custom water cool to clock higher, but I have looked at using a chiller like discussed last couple pages, I was in saltwater aquarium industry the last 10 years.

Edit: ^on Warzone, and 240-260fps multi


----------



## SyneWTD

If you don't have good/great ram I could see how e-cores would help warzone, but otherwise being able to clock ring a lot higher helped with my frame timings a lot. E-cores being enabled doesn't allow you to run a high ring clock, so you have to disable them. If you could run e-cores and high ring that would be great but not possible since you're giving the ring your e-cores' available cache.


----------



## energie80

Anyone know why can’t I go past 47x on my ring? 12900ks on msi unify x, e core disabled
Even using 48x the setting is ignored, 47x still


----------



## bscool

energie80 said:


> Anyone know why can’t I go past 47x on my ring? 12900ks on msi unify x, e core disabled
> Even using 48x the setting is ignored, 47x still


What bios are you on? There was a bios release a month or two ago from all the manufactures the cache/ring wouldnt clock up.


----------



## energie80

Latest official 70 if I’m not wrong


----------



## bscool

energie80 said:


> Latest official 70 if I’m not wrong


I am pretty sure I saw there was something on the latest MSI bios you had to change to clock cache/ring up. Dont remember the setting though. Hopefully someone else on here knows. I saw it on Discord but tried to find it but couldnt.


----------



## energie80

Where on discord?


----------



## sugi0lover

energie80 said:


> Anyone know why can’t I go past 47x on my ring? 12900ks on msi unify x, e core disabled
> Even using 48x the setting is ignored, 47x still


I saw the option below to be set disabled.
oc - advanced cpu configuration - cpu under voltage protection


----------



## energie80

sugi0lover said:


> I saw the option below to be set disabled.
> oc - advanced cpu configuration - cpu under voltage protection


Great that worked 😍
Thanks


----------



## jeiselramos

energie80 said:


> Anyone know why can’t I go past 47x on my ring? 12900ks on msi unify x, e core disabled
> Even using 48x the setting is ignored, 47x still


A.70 things, a.60 works fine


----------



## energie80

Fixed


----------



## acoustic

jeiselramos said:


> A.70 things, a.60 works fine


Just have to disable under-voltage protection. See Sugi's post above yours.


----------



## energie80

It’s working now 🙏🙏🙏


----------



## Jeges

Let's get started 😉


----------



## Ichirou

Jeges said:


> Let's get started 😉
> View attachment 2575364


You got your chip early? I'm guessing it's because of your country/store/connections?


----------



## nickolp1974

Jeges said:


> Let's get started 😉
> View attachment 2575364


You under NDA?? If not, and???


----------



## Ichirou

nickolp1974 said:


> You under NDA?? If not, and???


Chances are, no actual NDA, but dude working in the store told them to keep it on the down-low.


----------



## leonman44

Can the predictions be that off ? I need 1.36v l4 for 5ghz P , 4ghz E to be stable at a simple pass on Ycruncher which most of the the tests use AVX2.

I tried using a 5.1ghz with Avx offset so I can get more performance in non avx applications of -0.1ghz but still while most of the time it would run at 5ghz on Ycruncher it would spike at 5.1ghz sometimes and crash.


----------



## Hfhjfg

leonman44 said:


> View attachment 2575604
> 
> Can the predictions be that off ? I need 1.36v l4 for 5ghz P , 4ghz E to be stable at a simple pass on Ycruncher which most of the the tests use AVX2.
> 
> I tried using a 5.1ghz with Avx offset so I can get more performance in non avx applications of -0.1ghz but still while most of the time it would run at 5ghz on Ycruncher it would spike at 5.1ghz sometimes and crash.


What is your CPU?
12900k? if so, 1.36v is overkill for 5Ghz. you probably need to reset MEM/RING/E-cores overclock first to ensure the problem is in bad P-cores


----------



## leonman44

Hfhjfg said:


> What is your CPU?
> 12900k? if so, 1.36v is overkill for 5Ghz. you probably need to reset MEM/RING/E-cores overclock first to ensure the problem is in bad P-cores


Yes it’s the 12900K , I need 1.44v for 5.1ghz same settings , I think it’s just my silicon bad. I have also set 4.2ghz for cache , 4.4 will fail.
Of course under load the voltage drops a lot with llc 4.


----------



## toncij

What about single-core R23?


----------



## Caffinator

I'm gonna stuff this 13900KF in a HTPC case with a 4090 and play minecraft on my 86" Samsung 🦍🦍🦍🦍


----------



## Falkentyne

Caffinator said:


> I'm gonna stuff this 13900KF in a HTPC case with a 4090 and play minecraft on my 86" Samsung 🦍🦍🦍🦍


Loading Minecraft over and over on a 13900K is a good stress test to see if it crashes or not.


----------



## Alberto_It

On BIOS 1.15 I set the AVX2 extension to 3 with p-core at 55,55,54,54,54,53,53,53 and E Core to 4.2 @ 1.42v With benchmarks ok, with games like Uncharted I have problems

On Cinebench 23 and CPU Z all P-Cores runs at 5.3

Suggestions?


----------



## z390e

depends what specific game and what specific problem imo


----------



## Alberto_It

z390e said:


> depends what specific game and what specific problem imo


*EVGA ELEET X1 memorize my changes on my OC profile?*


----------



## z390e

it will if you save them, you can then load the profile again

to elaborate:

you can apply any changes in Eleet and they go live instantly
also, you can save a bunch of settings into a profile and then load that profile anytime


----------



## leonman44

I just found out that anything higher than 5.1ghz will downclock my cpu to 5.1ghz during heavy avx2 loads even if I set the offset to 0 in bios.

Is that normal ?

From one side it’s convinient btw because now I can actually clock higher for non avx applications.


----------



## Tadaschi

Wow! first run of my delided 13900k 6ghz 3 cores / 5.6ghz all p cores / 4.6ghz all e cores / ring 4.5ghz
MSI Unify-X
6800 cl34
mora 3 420
hotest core max temp 87C


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## thefirstdit

Hello guys, I use AI oc, but wanna know smth. When pc idle max ferq is 5.4-5.5ghz, but when I run game ferq go down to 5.0-5.15~ghz. I love to do things in bios but can’t understand why this happens and which settings create such a result. in game temps around 60c~ on nzxt x73(yeah maybe ****ty aio but didnt had any other choise)


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## Ketku-

How many using 2103 BIOS here? Is it good..
I have Z690 Apex + 12900K, so thats why i ask. 

2004 vs 2103, differents anything?


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## z390e

thefirstdit said:


> Hello guys, I use AI oc, but wanna know smth. When pc idle max ferq is 5.4-5.5ghz, but when I run game ferq go down to 5.0-5.15~ghz. I love to do things in bios but can’t understand why this happens and which settings create such a result. in game temps around 60c~ on nzxt x73(yeah maybe ****ty aio but didnt had any other choise)



need more info

run hwinfo64 sensors, then run Cinebench r23 and post the HwInfo screen here showing vcore, temps, etc


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## themad

Ketku- said:


> How many using 2103 BIOS here? Is it good..
> I have Z690 Apex + 12900K, so thats why i ask.
> 
> 2004 vs 2103, differents anything?


I am. Basically same setup as yours (Z690 Apex, 32gb Gskill DDR5-6400, 12900k), just GPU is different and I am on Lian Li Galahad 360mm AIO. All stock, though.
I was on 1703 BIOS previously. Did the update, reset CMOS, enabled XMP1, done. No issues.
Then ran TestMem5 Absolut777, Cinebench R23, CPU-Z, y-cruncher. All good, stable as before.


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## Ketku-

What llc's people use ocing with Apex + 12900K? 7 or 8


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## Fire2

anyone ever seen an SP115 12900k?

with 133 p cores and 80 ecores?


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## Ichirou

Fire2 said:


> anyone ever seen an SP115 12900k?
> 
> with 133 p cores and 80 ecores?


@sugi0lover has one.


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## Fire2

ah cool wondered if its actually a thing or just a bug


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## FreeSpeechIsKnowledge

Fire2 said:


> ah cool wondered if its actually a thing or just a bug


You're a winner then 🏆

Mines an sp87, 97 pcore, 60 or 70 something ecore.


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## 51dueller

With all the Raptor Lake overclocking around here, I figured I'd see if I could get more out of my 12600K. With the 2014 BIOS on my ASUS Prime Z690-P WIFI D4 and latest 2020 ME, I'm now running:
P 52x6 with TVB to 5.4 ghz at 1.325v max (HWInfo 64) with load voltage typically in the 1.250-1.275v range. Using AUTO with + Offset voltage
E 40x4
Ring 4.4 ghz
32 gb DDR4 4000 18-22-22-42 gear 1 SA 1.22v

Got a cinebench 23 rating of 19069 but I thermal throttle as my Noctua D12L can't handle over 200w of load. Prime95 and Y-Cruncher stable. Age of Empires 4 is probably my newest game on my PC so I got a screenshot of Doom 2016 demo which people are more familiar with.


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## 51dueller

I decided to pull my P cores back to 50 with TVB 52 and could take out a bunch of voltage so it no longer throttles anymore.


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## asdkj1740

is 89sp for p core a bad 12900k?


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## Ketku-

asdkj1740 said:


> is 89sp for p core a bad 12900k?


Its average


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## Nizzen

asdkj1740 said:


> is 89sp for p core a bad 12900k?


Looks pretty average to me. I had 6x 12900k retail from 81 to 90 P-core


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## robalm

Anyone know if when useing adaptive vcore with minus offset will also lower the vcore when the turbo kicks in?
I use a undervolt (with adaptive vcore the rest is stock).
Stable in stresstest, but got Bsod when i used webbrowser today.


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## SyneWTD

What's the best bios for the z690 Edge DDR4 right now for ram stability?


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## Ichirou

SyneWTD said:


> What's the best bios for the z690 Edge DDR4 right now for ram stability?


What CPU? If it's pre-12900KS, use BIOS V1.22 from February.
If it's the 12900KS, use the latest.


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## SyneWTD

Ichirou said:


> What CPU? If it's pre-12900KS, use BIOS V1.22 from February.
> If it's the 12900KS, use the latest.


I have the 12900K, and have been on 1.20 (7D31v12). It reports 1.20 in bios as well

I remember trying to find 1.22 but this is the same or no?


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## Ichirou

SyneWTD said:


> I have the 12900K, and have been on 1.20 (7D31v12). It reports 1.20 in bios as well
> 
> I remember trying to find 1.22 but this is the same or no?


It's the same. If you try to flash that BIOS, it shows up as V1.22.


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## SyneWTD

Ichirou said:


> It's the same. If you try to flash that BIOS, it shows up as V1.22.


I would imagine that there would be no benefit of this other than the informational 1.22 vs 1.20 notation?


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## Ichirou

SyneWTD said:


> I would imagine that there would be no benefit of this other than the informational 1.22 vs 1.20 notation?


I think MSI just misnamed the BIOS when they created it. As long as it's the one from February, it's the one.


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## 050

For some reason "Vcore Auto Voltage Cap" seems to be influencing my v/f curves.
I'm on bios version 2103, Asus z690-E and a 12900ks. 

When I set my v/f curve points, set the vcore to "auto" and set the vcore auto voltage cap to 1.48v, I can see in hwinfo64 that the cpu boosts to 5.8ghz on (the allowed) certain p cores, and when running light single threaded loads it achieves effective clocks of roughly 5.7-5.75ghz at the highest. If I leave the v/f points the same, but raise the score auto voltage cap to 1.52v, I would expect that the extra headroom would allow for better/higher boosting but instead I see those same cores boosting to a maximum effective clock of 5.65ghz instead. 

If I set 1.48v vcore auto voltage cap and boot up to idle, it boosts to 5.8ghz on 4 cores. At 1.5v vcore auto voltage cap booted up to idle in otherwise identical conditions, it only boosts to 5.7ghz. It's like the system is re-allocating the v/f bins when it has the slightly higher ceiling on vcore voltage, but in a way that makes it boost less at least in this case.

Any idea why _raising_ the auto vcore limit/cap would cause a _less aggressive _boosting? Thermals are a non- issue, in both cases the cpu is only around 65c max.

So to get _higher_ boost clocks with the same v/f curve values set in the bios, 1.48v vcore auto voltage cap seems to boost higher faster and more actively than 1.5v vcore auto voltage cap. Is this the way it's supposed to behave?

In watching it over a few days it does appear that the auto vcore cap is allowing VIDs to go higher as it is increased, so that checks out at least.


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## fat4l

Anyone still using 12900KS ?  


Have we found anything higher than 108 for pcores ?


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## z390e

fat4l said:


> Anyone still using 12900KS ?
> 
> Have we found anything higher than 108 for pcores ?


pretty sure @MrTOOSHORT had 110 pcore on 12900KS


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