# Why "5.1" headphones are a scam (with pictures!)



## Shrimpykins

Is there some hard science behind this? I would think it would all be relative to the way sound reacts at different angles/directions, you can simulate the angles by setting the drivers to the very front and back of the headset and adjusting volume/angle of the driver, as for the distance I am not sure. Maybe some type of scientific principle to demonstrate other than just telling us this. I understand what you are saying but I think you would need to back it up more based on physics.


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## sintricate

I never knew how they could get away with selling "5.1" headphones. I mean, that would require 2 fronts, 2 rears, a center and a sub. It's obviously a scam... where's my center?! Where's my sub?!


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## Emmanuel

I think 5.1 headphones are not worth the money too; 5.1 sound can be done with good headphones and a sound card features that can emulate 5.1 so that for instance when you turn around in a game, the sound goes smoothly from one can to another without giving the user the feeling that one side turned off right away and the other one picked up the sound.


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## corky dorkelson

The older I get, the more I like stereo (with sub where applicable) only. I have owned some epic surround setups, but I just prefer a nice, clean, solid front stage.


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## Heady

Listening to Binaural recordings on stereo headphones is like headphones' version of 5.1 speakers. And like 3D Movies, once you listen to Binaural recordings, your stereo recordings will seem less entertaining.

Here, get a virtual haircut!


YouTube- Virtual Barber Shop (Audio...use headphones, close ur eyes)


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## allikat

Is it just me? Or are the sound channels swapped on that video? Or is it my MS lifechat messing up things? When he does the clicking, on the left and right, it comes from the other side. Yet when I do the speaker test, they come from the correct sides...


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## kyle-reece

Quote:


Originally Posted by *allikat* 
Is it just me? Or are the sound channels swapped on that video? Or is it my MS lifechat messing up things? When he does the clicking, on the left and right, it comes from the other side. Yet when I do the speaker test, they come from the correct sides...


have you tried.....wait for it.................putting your headphones on the right way?


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## _02

Quote:


Originally Posted by *kyle-reece* 
have you tried.....wait for it.................putting your headphones on the right way?

Speaker test works right so that can't be the issue.


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## citat3962

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_02* 
Speaker test works right so that can't be the issue.

Read that again... how would the outcome of the speaker test be relevent?

He's saying he put the headphones on his head left cup on right ear.


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## smoothjk

Quote:


Originally Posted by *_02* 
Speaker test works right so that can't be the issue.

Maybe your headphones are flipped the wrong way lol.







Or if you're using earphones, you have the right bud in the left ear, and vice versa.

Works great for me.


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## Kick

id say companies should invent a way for us to have 5 ears, then sell 5.1 headphones


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## litho

I would have to disagree with op to some extent. There are true 5.1 headsets like this below. He even explains how the 5.1 on this headset work.


YouTube- Psyko 5.1 Headset Review





http://www.psykoaudio.com/


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## ikillerzi

PIECE OF CRAP cheap, fake headset. I LOVE tj's vids, but this is just rediculous. He obviously never used anything other than generic ipod headphones / headphones.


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## xDuBz

OMG! that video.. i kept looking around my room hahaha!
i just got a virtual haircut









wow those headsets cost 299? or 399? :O


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## c00lkatz

I heard the virtual haircut a while ago, and that was convincing enough. 5.1 headphone/headsets are a gimmick, and nothing more. I honestly do not see how you could distinguish between a center, left, right, left rear, right rear, and a subwoofer with the drivers so close together. My stereo headphones coupled with my X-Fi Titanium provide surround sound all on their own. Now a true 5.1/7.1 home theater setup makes sense, but with the drivers just mm apart? Makes no sense to me whatsoever.


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## allikat

Quote:


Originally Posted by *smoothjk* 
Maybe your headphones are flipped the wrong way lol.








Or if you're using earphones, you have the right bud in the left ear, and vice versa.

Works great for me.

It's a Micro$oft lifechat LX-3000 headset, and it's on the right way round. Maybe it's an issue with my beta version of flash...


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## SporkofdooM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *c00lkatz* 
I heard the virtual haircut a while ago, and that was convincing enough. 5.1 headphone/headsets are a gimmick, and nothing more. I honestly do not see how you could distinguish between a center, left, right, left rear, right rear, and a subwoofer with the drivers so close together. My stereo headphones coupled with my X-Fi Titanium provide surround sound all on their own. Now a true 5.1/7.1 home theater setup makes sense, but with the drivers just mm apart? Makes no sense to me whatsoever.

The man speaks the truth


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## 06si

The psyko 5.1 isn't really comfortable because the top headband is so heavy. It feels like the headset is pushing you down. But I agree with psyko company, this isn't a movie/music headset, you're better off buying an ath700 for that.


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## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *litho* 
I would have to disagree with op to some extent. There are true 5.1 headsets like this below. He even explains how the 5.1 on this headset work.

YouTube- Psyko 5.1 Headset Review

http://www.psykoaudio.com/

That doesn't mean it's any good. That thing looks supremely uncomfortable, and would probably just give me a headache. Besides that, why are ALL the speakers in the headband? There's no way to accurately distinguish between channels with a *normal* 5.1 headset, but having the drivers mashing the top of your skull, and those audio channels pushing sound through the casing, is much worse. I'd rather get an AD900 for the price of that.


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## SilverPotato

Also, when it comes to music 99.99% is sold as stereo. Stereo, contrary to popular belief, is not simply 2 speakers, it is in fact using 2 speakers to create a feeling of being surrounded in sound (not to be confused with emulating surround sound).

To put it more simply... if your music is encoded in 2 channels, why listen to it in 6? Its like watching a DVD quality movie on a 1920x1080 screen, it looks grainy and nasty (in a bad way).

This may be off topic but as we are ranting about people assuming things they don't know I thought I'd throw something in


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## Pankie

Why does everyone so passionately bash 5.1 headsets. Not everyone uses their computer to simply listen to music and stereo audio. I love a good pair of sennheiser's, they sound amazing, I also own beats for my ipod.. But to be honest I also LOVE 5.1 headsets. I got a Razer Barracuda about a year and a half ago, and that blew me away, I used it until it broke after after an accident in the house and now own a Roccat Kave which I love more than the Barracuda's.

In games that support 5.1, I notice a huge difference in directional sound and the ability to pick it up, that may just be me... but I'm sure the people that own them love them for a reason. but for those that only listen to music / movies on a pc, maybe they're not your best choice. I don't think the good 5.1's have been marketed towards music anyway, more of a gaming utility?


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## c00lkatz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pankie* 
Why does everyone so passionately bash 5.1 headsets. Not everyone uses their computer to simply listen to music and stereo audio. I love a good pair of sennheiser's, they sound amazing, I also own beats for my ipod.. But to be honest I also LOVE 5.1 headsets. I got a Razer Barracuda about a year and a half ago, and that blew me away, I used it until it broke after after an accident in the house and now own a Roccat Kave which I love more than the Barracuda's.

In games that support 5.1, I notice a huge difference in directional sound and the ability to pick it up, that may just be me... but I'm sure the people that own them love them for a reason. but for those that only listen to music / movies on a pc, maybe they're not your best choice. I don't think the good 5.1's have been marketed towards music anyway, more of a gaming utility?

The point is you don't need 5 speakers for directional sound, even in gaming. The two stereo speakers do that all by themselves.

Not to say that all 5.1 headsets suck. They probably sound good. But the point is it's not because it has 5 speakers. It's because the speakers it does have sound 10x better than the $5 headphones/ear buds you've probably been using since you bought your first MP3 player (not "you" specifically, "you" in general).


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## ljason8eg

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pankie* 
Why does everyone so passionately bash 5.1 headsets. Not everyone uses their computer to simply listen to music and stereo audio. I love a good pair of sennheiser's, they sound amazing, I also own beats for my ipod.. But to be honest I also LOVE 5.1 headsets. I got a Razer Barracuda about a year and a half ago, and that blew me away, I used it until it broke after after an accident in the house and now own a Roccat Kave which I love more than the Barracuda's.

In games that support 5.1, I notice a huge difference in directional sound and the ability to pick it up, that may just be me... but I'm sure the people that own them love them for a reason. but for those that only listen to music / movies on a pc, maybe they're not your best choice. I don't think the good 5.1's have been marketed towards music anyway, more of a gaming utility?

Except that directional sound can be accomplished just fine with stereo headphones, and you're getting something of far better quality.

The people who own them don't know any better. They fall for marketing and hype. Just like those people who buy hybrids because they're supposedly saving the environment.


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## Pankie

Directional sound from 3 speakers in each ear is obviously better than one in each, you can't really say otherwise. I know that good stereo's emulate surround sound but at least the 5.1 headphones have multiple drivers. And I have heard good stereo headphones, and like I said they're great, but I don't find that they compare to a 5.1 headset for the indented use of the 5.1's


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## litho

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp* 
That doesn't mean it's any good. That thing looks supremely uncomfortable, and would probably just give me a headache. Besides that, why are ALL the speakers in the headband? There's no way to accurately distinguish between channels with a *normal* 5.1 headset, but having the drivers mashing the top of your skull, and those audio channels pushing sound through the casing, is much worse. I'd rather get an AD900 for the price of that.

I don't think you watched the video fully, It is meant for gaming, not music or movies. Of course it's not for you avg gamers, but they do exist, and not only they exist but they make a difference. This is why I said, I disagree with you partially. Although most 5.1 are a gimmick, there are some like the ones I posted above that are truly 5.1. Until you experience them don't bash them.


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## c00lkatz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pankie* 
Directional sound from 3 speakers in each ear is obviously better than one in each, you can't really say otherwise. I know that good stereo's emulate surround sound but at least the 5.1 headphones have multiple drivers. And I have heard good stereo headphones, and like I said they're great, but I don't find that they compare to a 5.1 headset for the indented use of the 5.1's

Play a high-quality audio sample with a good set of stereo headphones, and blindly switch to a set of 5.1 "gaming headphones" without knowing which is which. I doubt you could tell the difference. Except the stereo headphones probably have better sound quality since they probably use better drivers.


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## Pankie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *litho* 
I don't think you watched the video fully, It is meant for gaming, not music or movies. Of course it's not for you avg gamers, but they do exist, and not only they exist but they make a difference. This is why I said, I disagree with you partially. Although most 5.1 are a gimmick, there are some like the ones I posted above that are truly 5.1. Until you experience them don't bash them.


Exactly what I'm saying. For surround sound gaming, to hear around you more accurately 5.1 is delicious.. For music / plain audio stereo headphones will obviously outperform.

My friend has a pair of Sennheiser HD 800's and they sound *** amazing.. but when I go back to my headset I can hear more clearly around me and I enjoy that experience, especially in games.


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## Pankie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *c00lkatz* 
Play a high-quality audio sample with a good set of stereo headphones, and blindly switch to a set of 5.1 "gaming headphones" without knowing which is which. I doubt you could tell the difference. Except the stereo headphones probably have better sound quality since they probably use better drivers.

High quality 5.1 sample? or high quality stereo sample? There is no argument that high end stereo > high end 5.1 for sound QUALITY. The point of 5.1's are for.. surround sound..


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## chinesekiwi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pankie* 
Exactly what I'm saying. For surround sound gaming, to hear around you more accurately 5.1 is delicious.. For music / plain audio stereo headphones will obviously outperform.

My friend has a pair of Sennheiser HD 800's and they sound *** amazing.. but when I go back to my headset I can hear more clearly around me and I enjoy that experience, especially in games.

I hope he has a great (not 'good', good isn't good enough) setup for those HD800's or else they're wasting their money. And yes, I've heard HD800's (the only one in my country at the time).


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## Pankie

I don't know exactly what he has but his family is wealthy and his dad who works in the recording industry set everything up for him.. I am positive that what he has is / was top of the line at the time.


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## chinesekiwi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pankie* 
High quality 5.1 sample? or high quality stereo sample? There is no argument that high end stereo > high end 5.1 for sound QUALITY. The point of 5.1's are for.. surround sound..

But most albums are mixed in 2.0 / 2.1 setups.

Anyway, 5HV2 vs. Audio Technica AD700.

http://www.fpslabs.com/reviews/heads...h-ad700-review

Highlighting relevant to the argument parts.

Quote:

*Performance*

These headphones, as were the 5HV2 and HD555, are paired up with my X-Fi XtremeMusic. You cant have great audio if you pair your quality headsets up with garbage audio sources. Remember that. You wouldn't buy a Ferrari and then put unleaded gas in it would you? Same concept here. I am going to test these in some games, make a few comparisons, then move on to audio and movies.

*In-game*

The games of choice during this review were Team Fortress 2, Counter-Strike 1.6, Counter-Strike: Source, and Crysis. _*I have raved about good positional audio before, such as in the 5HV2 review. While the positional audio on the 5HV2 is good, it achieves this with audio having minimal depth. It is quite the experience to not only have a 6th sense of your opposition's position in game but to do so while achieving audio excellence all around. Both the Audio Technicas and the Sennheisers can provide this. It is a more well-rounded sound that the SteelSeries headset lacks.*_ In [CS] 1.6 and Source I was able to pick up details like weapon reloads and footsteps with regular accuracy half-way across the map. During Team Fortress 2 I could weed out sentry gun movement with ease even during the heat of the battle. Often during big confrontations audio can become distorted or muddied up, but while using these headphones clarity was never a problem. *While moseying around in Crysis setting off enemy alerts, their strategic communication and babble was clearly audible beyond distances that the 5HV2 could reproduce.*

I have often heard that a good set of headphones is like 'sound hacks'. These statements are pretty accurate when paired with a good sound card. You avid gamers out there owe it to yourself to try some quality cans at some point or another if you haven't. I can't promise you these headphones are going to take you from CEVO-O to the CGS World Finals when it comes to playing games, as there is only so much of an advantage hardware can give you, but you might as well take advantage where you can.

*In-game I did prefer the AD700 overall. Clarity reigned supreme with these headphones. All ranges of sound seemed more distinct, acurate, and deep. While I enjoy the added bass later on with the HD555, in-game I prefer the cleaner sound stage of the AD700. The amplified bass and explosions in-game were nice to listen to with the Sennheisers, but the Audio Technicas seemed more beneficial to game play.*

*Movies and Music*

First and foremost my new "audio tester" of choice is a copy of Star Wars with _*5.1 AC3 sound*_ at 440kbps. I loaded up the video, set the volume about half way in Windows and prepared myself. Right off the bat the depth of the sound blew me away. _*Swapping around to the 5HV2 and noticing the hollow sound was like night and day. Blaster fire details that I had never picked up before were quite impressive. John Williams' score had never sounded better in my ears. The Imperial march through the AD700 is an experience I will not soon forget. While the Sennheiser HD555 sounds great, it seemed the overall sound stage of the Audio Technicas was a bit more well rounded. The HD555, as I have mentioned, kicked a bit more bass but they weren't quite on par in the overall sound department. Of course both sets blew the 5HV2 away in this aspect as they lack a competitive level of depth or bass in the sound department.*_

Music-wise I fired up a few different songs in the 'ole Winamp to make some direct comparisons. In the duration of having these headphones I have probably listened to 50-60hrs of audio so they should be well broken-in, if a break-in period exists, and more than ready for some head-to-head comparisons. Music, like the movie and game results, saw the 5HV2 come out the loser. The 5HV2 struggles with no bass and high treble, which forces one to make adjustments within Winamp to get any decent sound. The AD700 on the other hand is fantastic. Pink Floyd has never sounded this good on my system with ANY headphones I have tried, period. Crisp audio throughout the lows and the highs, no distortion, simple top notch audio. Various instruments rang throughout the music with detail and precision. The HD555 did provide a slight bit more of a bass kick in the hip hop I listened too but it wasn't overwhelming. I used to be one those guys who kicked up the bass boost and loved extreme vibration. However now I am more of the "listen to it as it was meant to be" type. Thus, I didn't really feel the AD700 were lacking all that much bass- less than Senheisers, yes, but the overall sound clarity and quality of the AD700 more than made up for it.

*Conclusion*

The question is: Do they live up to the hype? The answer to that is a resounding yes. These headphones provide without a doubt the best audio experience I have ever enjoyed on my computer. The HD555 comes in a close second. If I was playing more music and movies through the headphones I would probably lean towards the Sennheisers for the slighter deeper bass. However my primary function on my computer other than work is gaming, and the Audio Technica ATH-AD700 takes home the prize in that area. I think I grabbed these on sale for around $105. If you are going to spend $80+ on a sound card it is absurd to not have some quality audio output to pair them up with.

The design is excellent, with the only flaw that I could discern being the non-pivoting ear cans. Other than that the comfort level is top shelf, with all contact areas being incredibly soft. Audio-wise you cant go wrong. Whether you are in-game, jamming to your music collection, or watching video on your computer- in all likelihood these are going to excel in every facet. Now I realize there isn't a mic attached to these, so you will have spend another $10 or so and get yourself a quality attachable mic, use another headset, or use a desk mic.

The AD700 is the best pair of headphones I have ever used, even out-pacing the Sennheiser HD555. The 5HV2, while a solid choice in game, isn't even in the same building when in comes to all-around audio quality. If you are in the market for a new audio solution and don't mind a touch of purple with your gaming motif, give them a shot. This is my new standard for audio excellence.


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## Pankie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* 
But most albums are mixed in 2.0 / 2.1 setups.

Anyway, 5HV2 vs. Audio Technica AD700.

http://www.fpslabs.com/reviews/heads...h-ad700-review

NO ONE is arguing that 5.1's have better raw surround. Can you please actually take the time to read what we're saying. You're referencing a stereo 2.1 audio sample.. YES a high end headset that is 2.1 will outperform. And for music, like I said, they are MUCH BETTER.

But for the intended use, 5.1's provide what they claim too and that is why people use them. Play a game with good 5.1 support and it's wonderful


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## computeruler

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heady* 
Listening to Binaural recordings on stereo headphones is like headphones' version of 5.1 speakers. And like 3D Movies, once you listen to Binaural recordings, your stereo recordings will seem less entertaining.

Here, get a virtual haircut!

YouTube- Virtual Barber Shop (Audio...use headphones, close ur eyes)

OOMG
that is the coolest thing I have ever herd in my life!!


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## Tech-Boy

But then Why do my G35's simulate Surround Sound Very well? Have You ever even tried a good surround sound headset, such as the G35?


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## chinesekiwi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *computeruler* 
OOMG
that is the coolest thing I have ever herd in my life!!

List of legally downloadable binaural recordings:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f9/leg...-links-223165/

Enjoy.


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## nitd_kim

lol, i dont really worry or care about this since im practically deaf in one ear









i turned some mp3 files into mono which sound better to me since i cant hear the other half of some music lol


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## chinesekiwi

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nitd_kim* 
lol, i dont really worry or care about this since im practically deaf in one ear









i turned some mp3 files into mono which sound better to me since i cant hear the other half of some music lol

That's a shame but you msut do what's needed.

Foobar2000 has a built-in DSP you can use 'downmix channels to mono' which does the same thing without changing the source file.


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## Pankie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Tech-Boy* 
But then Why do my G35's simulate Surround Sound Very well? Have You ever even tried a good surround sound headset, such as the G35?

G35's aren't real surround sound. It is a USB headset that does not utilize your sound card. It's like the megalodon, virtual 7.1.

We're arguing about "TRUE" 5.1 headsets, not to say that the virtual 7.1 isn't good, I haven't tried it.


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## Riou

There is no such thing as a 5.1 headphone. A lot of speakers have multiple mid-range drivers in it. You would not call those speakers a 5.1 system. The drivers need to be spaced out around you. Even my IEMs have 3 drivers in them, but they are not called 6.0.

There is some sort of sound processing involved to simulate 5.1.


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## Pankie

You don't think that these multi million dollar companies have done everything in their power to ensure that their headsets simulate 5.1. And them having the speakers at the angles of directional sound does the job? They are spaced at the proper angle and compensate for the distance..

At least argue the discusses point.

And, all "5.1" headsets have 3 in each ear.


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## Tech-Boy

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pankie* 
G35's aren't real surround sound. It is a USB headset that does not utilize your sound card. It's like the megalodon, virtual 7.1.

We're arguing about "TRUE" 5.1 headsets, not to say that the virtual 7.1 isn't good, I haven't tried it.

Ok, thanks for clearing it up.


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## JDMfanatic

Eh I just got the turtle beach HPA2.. sound quality isnt that good but its decent enough and they hook up to my astro mixamp and I had to have a headset with a mic on it without modding so it'd look good, with all those factors in mind I had to go with one of these gimmicky "gaming headsets". The sound quality isn't that great but it's not horrible either... The Astro A-40s sound like complete crap but these actually sound alright/half-decent


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## GSingh

those headphones should simply be called 6.0 headphones. not 6.0 SURROUND. just 6.0.


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## Pankie

The turtle beach ones aren't known to be that good anyway.


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## Heady

Quote:


Originally Posted by *chinesekiwi* 
List of legally downloadable binaural recordings:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f9/leg...-links-223165/

Enjoy.

Good link, it's been in my bookmarks for a while now. Even though some are at 128 kbps they are pretty entertaining and fun to listen to.


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## Derp

So which is it? Are true 5.1 headsets with three speakers in each ear superior to stereo headphones or not? (By superior i mean the sound staging for gaming) If they weren't so damn expensive i would buy a pair just to test them out and then return them if they were the same or worse compared to stereo headphones.

I see a guide about how gimmicky 5.1's are and then people defending it. But it almost seems like those who went with stereo headphones have never even tried real 5.1 headsets and vice verse.


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## Pankie

Auid, In my opinion. For sound staging.. 5.1's are better in games.. because that's what they are made for and I don't think that is arguable. What people are arguing, is that the sound quality is worse on the 5.1's, which it obviously is.. That's like comparing a sprinter and a long distance runner, they both do the same thing, but in different respects / fields.

Stereo headsets are still AMAZING in games, the sound is phenomenal, but.. the directional positioning or sound staging probably won't be quite as accurate simply because there aren't as many sources for sound.. That's it. The 5.1 headsets are still high end have have GREAT sound quality, but yes.. higher end stereo headsets will appeal to the audiophiles who can notice and crave that quality.

The 5.1's still have crisp high quality audio, but just not quite equal to the high end stereo's that specialize in that department.


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## Derp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pankie* 
Auid, In my opinion. For sound staging.. 5.1's are better in games.. because that's what they are made for and I don't think that is arguable. What people are arguing, is that the sound quality is worse on the 5.1's, which it obviously is.. That's like comparing a sprinter and a long distance runner, they both do the same thing, but in different respects / fields.

Stereo headsets are still AMAZING in games, the sound is phenomenal, but.. the directional positioning or sound staging probably won't be quite as accurate simply because there aren't as many sources for sound.. That's it. The 5.1 headsets are still high end have have GREAT sound quality, but yes.. higher end stereo headsets will appeal to the audiophiles who can notice and crave that quality.

The 5.1's still have crisp high quality audio, but just not quite equal to the high end stereo's that specialize in that department.

See that's my point, many people on this forum are basically saying that stereo headphones sound stage JUST as good as 5.1 sets while having much better sound quality.

I personally don't give a crap about sound quality, sound stage is my only interest. I guess ill just have to try a pair out for myself in the future.


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## Pankie

I have a pair of Roccat Kaves, which I LOVE. My barracuda's were sick too while they lasted but I prefer the Roccat's. They sound a lot more pure and the noise cancelling is awesome.


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## Mr_Fantasticals

Now, that's not really fair. I've owned two pairs of true 5.1 headphones, and in my experience they've been more pleasurable than my 5.1 home theater system. I've found that the headphones don't allow for other background noises and makes the game insanely immersive. And yes, the surround sound effect works magnificently. It works better than my theater setup, because I am not able to get all of my speakers an equal distance apart.

Not everybody plays games in the middle of the floor. You can knock 5.1 headphones all you want, but the truth is they're freakin' awesome. The only complaint I can think of is how fragile they are.


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## Derp

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Pankie* 
I have a pair of Roccat Kaves, which I LOVE. My barracuda's were sick too while they lasted but I prefer the Roccat's. They sound a lot more pure and the noise cancelling is awesome.

Yeah i checked the Kaves out and they look very nice but i will NEVER pay $140+ $15 shipping for some headphones.


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## Mygaffer

Regardless of your reasoning or explanations the fact is I have a pair of Turtle Beach 5.1 headphones and while the sound quality is just ok, the surround effect is definitely pronounced.

I bought them b/c I got a killer deal on them and they work great for directional audio in gaming and movies late at night. I consider myself something of an audiophile and I will definitely concede that the sound quality is only passing. But I have a real 5.1 setup through my receiver hooked up to my computer that I can contrast the surround effect from those headphones, and it is there. In games that support multi-channel sound I can tell where I am being shot at and where people are. It works.

So while I definitely agree none of them have top quality sound, at least the Turtle Beach cans proved a pretty good surround experience.

EDIT: Let me also say that the set I have, the HPA2, does have 6 drivers in each cup, on larger driver for stereo left and right, two smaller drivers in each cup, one for center and one for surround left/right, and also some kind of unit on the sides that simulates bass. They have their own usb powered amp, though they are NOT usb headphones. The amp does introduce more noise than a good quality amp.

So to sum up, from my own experience, they don't sound amazing, but the 5.1 effect is for REAL.


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## 88EVGAFTW

I absolutely love my Tritton AX51 pro headset, 4 speakers per side, and the surround is very immersive. That haircut clip was amazing





















ear secks. With the sound card I have, the bass is very responsive and strong/deep depending on the level of the woofer i choose.

http://img.bestdirect.ca/images/Trit...RI-AI713_4.jpg

I only payd 65$ for them at comic con, half off retail at the time. Now can be had for 80-100$


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## Mygaffer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *c00lkatz* 
I heard the virtual haircut a while ago, and that was convincing enough. 5.1 headphone/headsets are a gimmick, and nothing more. I honestly do not see how you could distinguish between a center, left, right, left rear, right rear, and a subwoofer with the drivers so close together. My stereo headphones coupled with my X-Fi Titanium provide surround sound all on their own. Now a true 5.1/7.1 home theater setup makes sense, but with the drivers just mm apart? Makes no sense to me whatsoever.

Spoken like someone who hasn't used a set of 5.1 cans, at least a set with multiple physical drivers.

If you use something, say the Novint Falcon, and you've tested it, and you have a frame of reference, then you can come out and call it a gimmick. If not, you are only guessing.

As I've said, I am an audiophile, and while I haven't heard one of these sets with great sound quailty, at least the HPA2 provides a very realistic 5.1 experience. This is first hand, I've owned them for over a year, and used them with games, movies, etc. Not really good for music enjoyment, but instances when you need/want multi-channel and can't wake the roommates, then these work.

Mind you, I got these for WELL less than retail, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered.

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Riou* 
There is no such thing as a 5.1 headphone. A lot of speakers have multiple mid-range drivers in it. You would not call those speakers a 5.1 system. The drivers need to be spaced out around you. Even my IEMs have 3 drivers in them, but they are not called 6.0.

There is some sort of sound processing involved to simulate 5.1.

That is not necessarily true. The HPA2 does not change the sound one iota. It hooks directly into the multi-channel outs on your soundcard and outputs exactly what your sound card is feeding each channel. There are headsets out there that simulate 5.1, but that is not what we are talking about.


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## Soggy_Popcorn

Lol, I've never used 5.1 headphones, so I can't say if their directional positioning is any better (unlike some reflexive haters on this here forum), but I did notice that this diagram is a strawman.










If the drivers are positioned close together, and aimed at the ear from afar, yes their theta will be very small. But if they are the same distance from each other, and aimed at the ear from an inch away (like real 5.1 headphone drivers are), their theta will be much larger.

Poorly painted comparison:
Attachment 135979

Therefore, your original diagram/comparison is invalid, because you moved the "drivers" farther away while keeping them closely spaced, to suit your purposes.


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## Pankie

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mr_Fantasticals* 
Now, that's not really fair. I've owned two pairs of true 5.1 headphones, and in my experience they've been more pleasurable than my 5.1 home theater system. I've found that the headphones don't allow for other background noises and makes the game insanely immersive. And yes, the surround sound effect works magnificently. It works better than my theater setup, because I am not able to get all of my speakers an equal distance apart.

Not everybody plays games in the middle of the floor. You can knock 5.1 headphones all you want, but the truth is they're freakin' awesome. The only complaint I can think of is how fragile they are.


I agree, I love mine to bits.


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## Heady

What do you guys think about this foobar "5.1 Experience" setup: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/5-...-files-447089/

I've had the link bookmarked but haven't bothered trying it out recently. This thread reminded me of it. I might give it a try this weekend.


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## Rooslin

this is a ridiculous article headsets now only use two drivers because they use dolbys new directional technology which allows for 5.1 with two drivers do some more research before you rag on something with your ridiculous pictures

buy a astro a40 headset with mixamp and then you'll realize


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## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rooslin* 
buy a astro a40 headset with mixamp and then you'll realize

Buy some real headphones and then you'll realize...


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## Socom

Lol, there is no such thing as 5.1 headsets. It is all emulated 3D. 5 satellite speakers next to my ears would hurt after while...


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## ljason8eg

5.1 with two drivers? Lol that's called 2.0...


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## Blackhawk4

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Rooslin* 

buy a astro a40 headset with mixamp and then you'll realize

Yes you'll realize that the A40s are overpriced and aren't worth the money at all.


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## trueg50

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Auld* 

I see a guide about how gimmicky 5.1's are and then people defending it. But it almost seems like those who went with stereo headphones have never even tried real 5.1 headsets and vice verse.

I owned a pair of Razor AC-1's for a while before moving to my current Sennheiser HD280's, and both sound quality and game positioning are vastly superior on my Sennheiser's. I almost feel like I am cheating in L4D/COD4 back when I had my Xtrememusic, it was so very easy to pick out where individuals were.


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## Arrec Barrwin

Quote:


Originally Posted by *nathris* 










This picture is hilarious.


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## Coma

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Heady* 
YouTube- Virtual Barber Shop (Audio...use headphones, close ur eyes)

"I just want to tell you once more, that your ability to hear where I am, as I walk around the room, is simply the amazing power of your brain."

The *ONLY* reason you need 5 speakers for a surround is because they _aren't_ right next to your ear! In addition to the depth in the sound itself, the speakers are not located at 0 distance from your ears, so you perceive more distance than there really is, which prevents the effect you get with binaural recordings (or a FPS game).

Play a FPS game with your stereo headphones. You can judge the location of objects based on the sounds they make. Same thing with the binaural recording. When provided with two inputs - your ears, using the difference in volume (simplified) between the two ears, your brain can tell a lot more information. Just like how with two eyes - your brain can judge depth, and that enables 3D video.

*That* is why 5.1 headphones are a scam: they provide a _less_ accurate soundstage than simple stereo headphones, because there are multiple speakers which don't overlap with one another.

TL;DR: Multiple speakers in a surround speaker configuration is to compensate for the distance between you and the speakers. You only have two ears. When there is no (very little) distance between you and the speakers (headphones), there is no need for multiple speakers.

And you cannot disagree. It's not a matter of opinion. Look it up - it has to do with how the brain works, and nothing else.


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## nathris

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Coma* 
"I just want to tell you once more, that your ability to hear where I am, as I walk around the room, is simply the amazing power of your brain."

The *ONLY* reason you need 5 speakers for a surround is because they _aren't_ right next to your ear! In addition to the depth in the sound itself, the speakers are not located at 0 distance from your ears, so you perceive more distance than there really is, which prevents the effect you get with binaural recordings (or a FPS game).

Play a FPS game with your stereo headphones. You can judge the location of objects based on the sounds they make. Same thing with the binaural recording. When provided with two inputs - your ears, using the difference in volume (simplified) between the two ears, your brain can tell a lot more information. Just like how with two eyes - your brain can judge depth, and that enables 3D video.

*That* is why 5.1 headphones are a scam: they provide a _less_ accurate soundstage than simple stereo headphones, because there are multiple speakers which don't overlap with one another.

TL;DR: Multiple speakers in a surround speaker configuration is to compensate for the distance between you and the speakers. You only have two ears. When there is no (very little) distance between you and the speakers (headphones), there is no need for multiple speakers.

And you cannot disagree. It's not a matter of opinion. Look it up - it has to do with how the brain works, and nothing else.


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## Coma

What the pictures in the OP should be:
:S - 5.1 speakers
:| - 5.1 headphones







- stereo headphones

The less distance there is between the speakers and your ears, and the closer the number of speakers is to the number of ears you have (I wonder how someone with 3 ears would hear things!), the more accurate the soundstage.

What you say in the OP about angles is irrelevant. Although the angle is smaller, so is the distance between you and the speakers.


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## c00lkatz

Not going to quote the whole post, but Coma...


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## legoman786

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Coma*


"I just want to tell you once more, that your ability to hear where I am, as I walk around the room, is simply the amazing power of your brain."

The *ONLY* reason you need 5 speakers for a surround is because they _aren't_ right next to your ear! In addition to the depth in the sound itself, the speakers are not located at 0 distance from your ears, so you perceive more distance than there really is, which prevents the effect you get with binaural recordings (or a FPS game).

Play a FPS game with your stereo headphones. You can judge the location of objects based on the sounds they make. Same thing with the binaural recording. When provided with two inputs - your ears, using the difference in volume (simplified) between the two ears, your brain can tell a lot more information. Just like how with two eyes - your brain can judge depth, and that enables 3D video.

*That* is why 5.1 headphones are a scam: they provide a _less_ accurate soundstage than simple stereo headphones, because there are multiple speakers which don't overlap with one another.

TL;DR: Multiple speakers in a surround speaker configuration is to compensate for the distance between you and the speakers. You only have two ears. When there is no (very little) distance between you and the speakers (headphones), there is no need for multiple speakers.

And you cannot disagree. It's not a matter of opinion. Look it up - it has to do with how the brain works, and nothing else.


Win. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## Heady




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## Mr_Nibbles

I agree with the op, but the headphone pic is very skewed. Headphones are proportionately much closer to your head than speakers. The angle at which 5.1 headphones can face your ear is much closer to a real 5.1 setup than the picture implies. But, any decent headphone can replicate the soundstage of music better than 5.1 headphones, and with better quality.

Just my 2 cents...


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## admflameberg

I agree with the op as well, I used to be a 5.1 headphone nut til I bought my first pair of real headphones the AD-700. I was thinking to my self" why was i buying into this 5.1 headphone thing when I could had used that money on better headphones" Since then I never touched another 5.1 headphone ever.


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## odis172

Say your facing 12 oclock. A sound comes from the 1 oclock direction, and you can tell that it came from 1 oclock. If you have a speaker directly on your right ear, how is it possible for the speaker to make your brain think that its producing sounds from anything other then 3 oclock. 
If it is a matter of the 2 speakers on your 2 ears working together to try and make you perceive a change in the direction of the sound, is it possible for them to produce sounds that you will perceive as coming from infront or behind, as decided by the computer? For example, with stereo headphones, can you be lead to believe that a sound is coming from 2 oclock, and a differant sound will be coming from 4 oclock?


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## XXDraconisWisherXX

that haircut thing freaked me out. so realistic.


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## TwoCables

Quote:


Originally Posted by *XXDraconisWisherXX* 
that haircut thing freaked me out. so realistic.

After the haircut audio sample, I tried it myself with surprising results. Here's what I did:

I used these microphones and strategically positioned them based on my limited experience: M-AUDIO Pulsar II Matched Pair (small diaphragm studio condenser microphones).

I plugged them into this mixer: Peavey PV8 analog mixer.

I recorded using Sony Sound Forge 7.0.

I started recording and then I grabbed a piece of cellophane and started crinkling it constantly as I moved it about while simultaneously stating exactly where it was in the room. Then I played it back, and to my amazement, it really sounded like surround sound.

But I think one of the reasons why this worked is because of how the sound waves bounced around the room depending on where I had the cellophane. I mean, I know this room very, very well, so as I sat there with my eyes closed, I literally felt like the cellophane was crinkling in that exact part of the room and I once caught myself looking to exactly where it was.

So, I think the key is partly due to audio cues with reverb, echo and other Environmental effects. The other cue is visual! That's why the haircut trick works is because they have you close your eyes and then they describe the room and everything else!

So there you have it: that's why it works.


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## admflameberg

Quote:



Originally Posted by *odis172*


Say your facing 12 oclock. A sound comes from the 1 oclock direction, and you can tell that it came from 1 oclock. If you have a speaker directly on your right ear, how is it possible for the speaker to make your brain think that its producing sounds from anything other then 3 oclock. 
If it is a matter of the 2 speakers on your 2 ears working together to try and make you perceive a change in the direction of the sound, is it possible for them to produce sounds that you will perceive as coming from infront or behind, as decided by the computer? For example, with stereo headphones, can you be lead to believe that a sound is coming from 2 oclock, and a differant sound will be coming from 4 oclock?


Yea you can it just depends on the headphones,Theres alot of headphones that can do this very well where you dont need to use dobly headphone or CMSS3D.


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## Mygaffer

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Socom* 
Lol, there is no such thing as 5.1 headsets. It is all emulated 3D. 5 satellite speakers next to my ears would hurt after while...

At least do a google search before you spout non-sense.


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## SporkofdooM

Quote:


Originally Posted by *TwoCables* 
After the haircut audio sample, I tried it myself with surprising results. Here's what I did:

I used these microphones and strategically positioned them based on my limited experience: M-AUDIO Pulsar II Matched Pair (small diaphragm studio condenser microphones).

I plugged them into this mixer: Peavey PV8 analog mixer.

I recorded using Sony Sound Forge 7.0.

I started recording and then I grabbed a piece of cellophane and started crinkling it constantly as I moved it about while simultaneously stating exactly where it was in the room. Then I played it back, and to my amazement, it really sounded like surround sound.

But I think one of the reasons why this worked is because of how the sound waves bounced around the room depending on where I had the cellophane. I mean, I know this room very, very well, so as I sat there with my eyes closed, I literally felt like the cellophane was crinkling in that exact part of the room and I once caught myself looking to exactly where it was.

So, I think the key is partly due to audio cues with reverb, echo and other Environmental effects. The other cue is visual! That's why the haircut trick works is because they have you close your eyes and then they describe the room and everything else!

So there you have it: that's why it works.

We did a few binaural experiments like that in my mixing classes, good times


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## Miked270

That virtual Hair Cut and other sound clips are proof 5.1 head phones aren't needed. I wish games would invest more of their time in creating a more immersive 3d sound environment.


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## theCanadian

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Shrimpykins* 
Is there some hard science behind this? I would think it would all be relative to the way sound reacts at different angles/directions, you can simulate the angles by setting the drivers to the very front and back of the headset and adjusting volume/angle of the driver, as for the distance I am not sure. Maybe some type of scientific principle to demonstrate other than just telling us this. I understand what you are saying but I think you would need to back it up more based on physics.

How about since the logical argument is *against* 5.1 and 7.1 headphones/headsets, you let the companies who are marking these headphones explain the physics. I've only seen one pull it off so far, and here it is.








YouTube- Psyko 5.1 Headset Review


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## Arrec Barrwin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *theCanadian*


How about since the logical argument is *against* 5.1 and 7.1 headphones/headsets, you let the companies who are marking these headphones explain the physics. I've only seen one pull it off so far, and here it is.

YouTube- Psyko 5.1 Headset Review


Good find! That is really cool, I have never seen anything like that before.


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## Pibbz

If there's 6 drivers in these headphones, on which side do you put the sub?


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## jmacguire

There are no drivers in the earcups, they run along the headband. The "subs" are in the ear cups.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/...eadset_review/

This is my opinion in my own words.

Cheers,
jmacguire (Earl Keim, author of the review)


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## balli1990

The way we perceive directionality in the real world or with a real 5.1 system is through head related transfer functions. This is how your body effects the sound transmission to your ears creating time and level differences. If multiple drivers are in a set of headphones then there are no head related transfer functions as the speakers are so close to the ears they bypass any changes your body would make with a proper 5.1 system.

Amplitude panning is used in mixing 5.1 not time based panning so that cant be it.

Monaural cues (reflections off the outer ear) will probably slightly enhance directionality but i cant see how the audio would sound like it was in the space around you rather than inside your head.

Iv never listend to 5.1 headphones so i cant comment on how good they are but i thought this might help answer some questions.

Binaural is far better as it actually codes the audio with head related transfer functions, it gives a very realistic soundscape through a pair of stereo headphones.


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