# AMD Motherboards - VRM info database



## brodie337

Is there any chance you could put down a note to say if a motherboard is mATX or not? It's near impossible to find decent mATX AM3 motherboards.


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## Doom

Great Idea.

Once the list is complete it should be stickied for all to see.


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## reflex99

We can put a note for mATX at a later time. For now, we are just working on getting it all filled in.

We should have it done in a few days


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## brodie337

Can I help?


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## yoshirama

My board:
Gigabyte
Ga-870A-UD3
8+2
None/Upgradeable (Note: mosfets and pushpin holes are arranged exactly for a Enzotech MST-88)
140W
Not sure
Not sure

8-pin

2nd Note: Standard gigabyte extra thick copper plane aids cooling.


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## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brodie337;12462756*
> Can I help?


For now, we would like to keep it to us two, but maybe at a later date, we will be able to acept help


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## brodie337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;12462768*
> For now, we would like to keep it to us two, but maybe at a later date, we will be able to acept help


Righto, just let me know if you need anything.


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## toyz72

real nice guys...i think this will be very usefull


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## kz26

Here's some info for the Gigabyte MA785GM-US2H.

Phases: 4+1
Heatsinked: No
CPU TDP: 140W
CPU power plug: 8-pin
Compatible heatsinks: MOS-C1


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## AMD2600

You can add the ASUS M4A79 Deluxe:

8+2 Phase
Heatsinked
140w support
Good Quality-Yes


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## RichardS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yoshirama;12462763*
> My board:
> Gigabyte
> Ga-870A-UD3
> 8+2
> None/Upgradeable (Note: mosfets and pushpin holes are arranged exactly for a Enzotech MST-88)


Same here and I have the same Enzotech MST-88.

The Enzotech MST-88 also fits on the Ga-770A-UD3.

This is a good idea. This should be added to the motherboard threads & clubs sticky.


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## raisethe3

Wow, such a great idea. That would help users a lot, especially when trying to decide on a board to buy.

Add ASUS M4A89GTD PRO/USB 3 for 8+2 Phase. 140w and has 8-pin plug.


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## xd_1771

I like how a lot of you are trying to help with your own info








I'm making great progress in the Gigabyte area, both sides learning quite a bit here. This is fun


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## kromar

my board is the same as the GA-790FXTA-UD5, maybe saves you some work;D


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## RichardS

You could add socket as a category (though all AM3 so far).

AM3+ soon enough!


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## AMOCO

Here's mine:
ASUS Crosshair III Formula
Phases:8+2
Heatsinked:Yes
CPU TDP:140W
CPU Power Plug:8 Pin
WaterCooled (MB-ASC3F)


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## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RichardS;12463160*
> You could add socket as a category (though all AM3 so far).
> 
> AM3+ soon enough!


we will be making a separate spreadsheet for AM2/am2+ and AM3+ when it officially comes out.


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## xd_1771

See that _completed_ Gigabyte column? (For currently-released mobos) - yeah, that's all xd


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## tout

The Biostar TA890FXE board has a 8 pin CPU plug, I see it's not filled in your chart yet.


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## reflex99

MSI done


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## LuckySe7ens

great thread! repping for the effort


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## Kvjavs

Those ASRock boards are starting to look better and better to me


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## reflex99

Just finished the ASrock sheet.

Damn they have a lot of boards


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## sLowEnd

AM2+ Board
Gigabyte GA-MA78G-DS3H (Rev 1.0)
3+1 Phase
3 transistors
Non Low RDS MOSFETs
No VRM heatsinks
ATX form factor
4-pin CPU plug
CPU TDP limit: 95W

*note
Mine has horrid voltage accuracy (actual voltage would be higher than BIOS settings. 1.325v becomes 1.375v, 1.375v becomes 1.42v...etc)


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## redhat_ownage

what is this crap?
if someone is too stupid to count chokes, then there is no reason for them to be overclocking.


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## reflex99

You would be surprised how many times a day we get asked this.

There is also other information such as the quality of the phases


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## xd_1771

It's something meant for you to go back and refer to not just for choke count but overall quality, TDP support, etc. After all sometimes I'm tired of having to go back to Newegg and have to load bandwidth-intensive for that motherboard (UBB for the lose)

On the other hand... ASUS, Gigabyte, MSI, Biostar, ASRock are all done


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## skarm

someone should try oc'ing a 140w 965 on that 2+1 asrock board


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## reflex99

Yea, we were both shocked when the asrock site said 125w.

140w would be sad


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## philhalo66

am2/am2+/am3
ECS A780GMA-ULTRA
4+1 Phase
8 Pin CPU 12V
heatsinked yes
compatible Mosfet coolers Enzotech MOS-C1 C1100 and stock
TDP 160W(overclock) 140W native.

am2/am2+/am3
ECS A740GM-M
Phase 3
heatsinked no
compatible Mosfet coolers Enzotech MOS-C1 C1100 only
4Pin CPU 12V
TDP 95W


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## foxt

Thank you very much for this effort. Very useful!

Question about the low RDS(on) column ... how do you tell the difference when looking at the device? I thought that the low RDS(on) transistors had four leads, and the traditional transistors had 3 (with one snipped)?

Example: I am looking at my Asus M4A78lt-M LE, and I see what I believe to be traditional mosfets (only two leads connected), not low RDS(on) devices. The table lists this board as low RDS(on) though ...


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## reflex99

There could be some mistakes on the spreadsheet, particularly on the rds and transistor collumns.

We are going off pictures from the manufacturer's website, so somtimes it is hard to tell.


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## antuk15

Am I right in saying that I don't think *ANY* AMD motherboard has a better, higher quality VRM lay out as the CH 4 Extreme?

It's even higher quality then the CH4 Formula..


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## Evil262

M4N75TD

8+1 Phase
140w cpu support
Heatsinked
8pin +12

Runs cool with overclocked 955BE, had it at up to 1.45v and the mosfet heatsink is cool to the touch.


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## foxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;12468056*
> There could be some mistakes on the spreadsheet, particularly on the rds and transistor collumns.
> 
> We are going off pictures from the manufacturer's website, so somtimes it is hard to tell.


No problem - Ijust wanted to make sure I correctly understand how to tell the transistors apart.

As we find updates, how do you want to handle that?


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## xd_1771

Looking at the design ASUS seems to use primarily only low RDS (on) mosfets and proper drivers consistently on their AM3 boards... I'm not too sure. There can be 1 or 2 drivers I think... I might go back to that article that damric (or who was it) told me about, that's about VRMs. If I could find it.


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## MrAMD_Fan

Very helpful thread! Thanks for all the work guys! Wish i had seen this before i bought mine, but since i got the MSI mobo and 955BE for $169.99 at frys about a year ago, i didn't really research it. I guess i will have to change my avatar soon...when the 'hawks miss the playoffs...


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## xd_1771

Yeah, Vancouver Canucks don't have to face you guys this time. I'm pretty confident the Canucks'll win the Stanley cup this year, what with Luongo having no losses for game over game on end, all the rookies scoring out of nowhere and Daniel Sedin leading league...... eh, nothing's impossible


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## foxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12468247*
> Looking at the design ASUS seems to use primarily only low RDS (on) mosfets and proper drivers consistently on their AM3 boards... I'm not too sure. There can be 1 or 2 drivers I think... I might go back to that article that damric (or who was it) told me about, that's about VRMs. If I could find it.


Is this it?
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Everything-You-Need-to-Know-About-The-Motherboard-Voltage-Regulator-Circuit/616/1


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## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *antuk15;12468090*
> Am I right in saying that I don't think *ANY* AMD motherboard has a better, higher quality VRM lay out as the CH 4 Extreme?
> 
> It's even higher quality then the CH4 Formula..


I would say that the ta890fxe has the highest quality vrms, but the CHIVe makes up for it with higher quantitiy


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## solar0987

gigabyte 870a-ud3
phases 8+2
heatsinked nb yes sb yes mosfets no
tdp 140w
cpu power 8 pin
compatible heatsink enzotech mst-88 or enzotech wmst-88<--- water block


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## winginit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;12468056*
> There could be some mistakes on the spreadsheet, particularly on the rds and transistor collumns.
> 
> We are going off pictures from the manufacturer's website, so somtimes it is hard to tell.


If I might offer a small correction on the DFI LANPARTY BI 785G-M35.... I've owned that board, and it does indeed have heatsinked VRMs....









Good job though, guys....


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## reflex99

On the website, it looks unheatsinked, but since you have actually owned it i guess that is a better source

*updated*


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## xd_1771

It's another one but that looks like a good one as well







Thanks!


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## reflex99

added a submission form to the OP.

If you don't see your board, feel free to submit it, and we will see if we can add it to the list


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## nicksasa

Added ASUS M3N78 PRO (AM2+)

I have it running in my server. It ran my 955 @ 3.8Ghz 1.41V for 2 months and the mosfet's feel cool to the touch. Only the chokes hot very hot.

Tough after that period (and it had my 7750 in it for a year) it started to make squeeling noises but that's probably because of the chokes.

Also it's best that you replace the tim under the cooler on the ASRock 890GX Extreme3 and other boards in that series. They come with pretty crappy thermal pads( I guess all boards use thermal pads ?). I still have to put some tim on there but I'll do that when i drain my loop.


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## Artikbot

Info on ASUS M2N SLI Deluxe:

Socket AM2.
Max TDP 140W.
4 phases, heatsinked.
4pin CPU power.
NB heatsinked aswell, heatpipes connected to MOSFET heatsinks.


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## coonmanx

Get this stickied. Good info!


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## un-nefer

Apart from your "phase count" column being totally misleading, I think it is a good idea.

Inform members properly, they deserve no less then the truth, especially considering the title is specific to "power phase".

My suggestion is to break that column into two and provide the true number of power phases. Perhas the columns should be named:
Advertised Phases
True Phases

Otherwise you will simply mislead members into thinking that their mobo has "8+2 phases" when in actual FACT it is almost certainly only 4+1 phases.

You also run risk of misinformation spreading as truth, and eluding members into thinking higher "phase" count is better, even though the "phase" count listed is misleading in itself.

Get the information correct from the start and everyone benefits properly from your hard work and information.

Edit: Maybe add another column that lists the actual VRM used?


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## Kvjavs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *un-nefer;12474180*
> Apart from your "phase count" column being totally misleading, I think it is a good idea.
> 
> Inform members properly, they deserve no less then the truth, especially considering the title is specific to "power phase".
> 
> My suggestion is to break that column into two and provide the true number of power phases. Perhas the columns should be named:
> Advertised Phases
> True Phases
> 
> Otherwise you will simply mislead members into thinking that their mobo has "8+2 phases" when in actual FACT it is almost certainly only 4+1 phases.
> 
> You also run risk of misinformation spreading as truth, and eluding members into thinking higher "phase" count is better, even though the "phase" count listed is misleading in itself.
> 
> Get the information correct from the start and everyone benefits properly from your hard work and information.
> 
> Edit: Maybe add another column that lists the actual VRM used?


You're free to contribute your own research. Many other members have already


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## xd_1771

I was going to PM reflex about 1-2 hours ago (stupid internet preventing me from getting to OCN somehow) about explaining in the OP that we use phases to refer to the split inductor count instead of channel count for simplicity and sake of comparison. I'm aware of this. Phase count can be a pretty important factor, though as I have said it is not necessarily the most important thing sometimes, hence I filled in the tables with other columns concerning overall quality.

I think as a good start I will put if the mobo is "split 4+1 phase" in the transistor type column.
EDIT: I have added an "Actual channelling" column to ASUS & Gigabyte, however I have doubts as to how users will respond to this... I am thinking most likely with confusion. It might be better if I just explain the split-phase theory and how it really doesn't matter anyway since I've never ever seen an 8+2 blow even if it's base 4+1. Though I've tried it out on two graphs I'm waiting on user input here.


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## reflex99

I can put a note if you want.

I was going to, but I thought to myself:

Who actually thinks of it that way?

When people think of power phases, they think of them how we have them listed, which is what is really important.


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## xd_1771

That's exactly what I'm thinking. Having to rant about split power phase is just going to confuse people, and seriously a split 4+1 -> 8+2 power phase is still much better than a non-split 4+1 and closely matches a true non-split 8+2 phase. Definitely something worth nothing, but not something that's a huge issue.


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## AK-47

LOL too true about the M4N98TD evo
extremely bad vdroop


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## reflex99

I actually had an idea.

How about if we mark the split phase ones with an asterisk (*)?

That way it will keep the table clean, but still show which are split phase.


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## xd_1771

That seems like an okay compromise. Perhaps you should link to my thread concerning what split phase is and I'll expand on that section.


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## reflex99

post up a link, and i can add it to the Op.

lets go fix the spreadsheet then.....


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## Rookie1337

This is a great thread keep up the work guys.

Not sure about this since I've read reviews on my board stating the contrary on voltage drops and rises; but from what I've seen in software (I know it's not the best/most accurate thing) there is some substantial voltage jumps (up and down) on the M4A785TD-M Evo.

Again. Great info. Keep it up.


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## CryWin

The Biostar TA790GX*E* 128M is 4+1, 140W

TA790GX is 3+1, 140W

As a side note, it seems that motherboards that did not have at least 4 phase were not bios upgraded for the Phenom II X6.


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## nicksasa

Placing a fan with low db & rpm connected to 5V does wonders.
Before aux would be 55-60°C, now chill 34°C.
(CPU Temp isn't correct, i know the core temps are within 1°C of real temps because it was like that on my old board.)

I will remove it when i replace the thermal pad.


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## reflex99

same here, I took the fan off my stock cooler, and put it over the VRMs, so much cooler now.


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## xd_1771

If I can ever find a decent 40-60MM fan I'll throw it over my MOSFET cooling, I actually run fairly warm at 60C load, near-same as CPU, but the prospect of being at closer to 30 really excites me. I've got some spare spot cools but they don't fit. To start with I removed the blue "Gigabyte" and "Ultra Durable" plates and that improves airflow a lot.


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## raisethe3

Just for correction, the M4A89GTD Pro (/USB3) has an 8+2 phase, not 6+2. I counted 10, so its has to be 8+2 right?

Even Overclockersclub review states 8+2 phase as well.

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/asus_m4a89gtd_pro_usb3/2.htm

I am not trying to sound like an *******, but just thought I point that out so it wouldn't deter readers from picking it.


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## reflex99

whoops fixed

weird that the GTD has 8+2 while the TD has 6+2.....

Why does a better board have less phases? Asus you are confuse.


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## xd_1771

The TD/USB3 has a 6+2, TD has 8+2. Both GTD variants use 8+2. Must be a slight difference somehow.


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## farmdve

My board: Gigabyte MA785GT-UD3H revision *1.0* is 4+1 phase design and has *no* heatsink on the mosfets


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## raisethe3

But the question is, why would a TD/USB3 has a 6+2 downgrade? What's the point of having a 8+2 on a regular TD in the first place? Makes no sense to me.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12488871*
> The TD/USB3 has a 6+2, TD has 8+2. Both GTD variants use 8+2. Must be a slight difference somehow.


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## reflex99

Looking at it again, the TD(non USB3) is also 6+2. Spreadsheet updated


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## Marc-Olivier Beaudoin

Would change the 890xa-ud7 to E-ATX but I'm happy im in the top 5 boards


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## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marc-Olivier Beaudoin;12502428*
> Would change the 890xa-ud7 to E-ATX but I'm happy im in the top 5 boards


it is actually XL-ATX









Updated spreadsheet.


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## Kvjavs

There's a typo with a few ECS ones near the bottom.

The ones with a typo are A885GM-A2, A885GM-M2, A875M-A.

Also I have a Foxconn A88GM Deluxe, unless you already found out for sure, I can take off the heatsinks tomorrow and see if they're lowRDS (on) or not.


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## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kvjavs;12502498*
> There's a typo with a few ECS ones near the bottom.
> 
> The ones with a typo are A885GM-A2, A885GM-M2, A875M-A.
> 
> Also I have a Foxconn A88GM Deluxe, unless you already found out for sure, I can take off the heatsinks tomorrow and see if they're lowRDS (on) or not.


What is wrong with them?


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## Marc-Olivier Beaudoin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;12502456*
> it is actually XL-ATX
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Updated spreadsheet.


yeah sorry my mistake xD . either way it's not standard and is a ***** to find a case for her . she just likes it huge









I'm still impressed by the amount of bad phase msi has .


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## Horsemama1956

Just something to add, the TA870+ revision 5.2 has a heatsink on the VRMs


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## raisethe3

For AM2/AM2+ section, add:

MSI K9N2 SLI Platinum
Phase: 4+1
Heatsink: Yes
CPU TDP: 140W
CPU power plug: 8-pin
Quality vrm= Don't know
Low RDson=Don't know
Transistors= Don't know
Form factor= ATX

Yes, I own this board.


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## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marc-Olivier Beaudoin;12502584*
> yeah sorry my mistake xD . either way it's not standard and is a ***** to find a case for her . she just likes it huge
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still impressed by the amount of bad phase msi has .


MSI has seems to have caught on. All of their 2011 boards so far are 8+2. (FXA-GD65, and Fuzion power edition)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Horsemama1956;12502626*
> Just something to add, the TA870+ revision 5.2 has a heatsink on the VRMs


updating
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raisethe3;12502632*
> For AM2/AM2+ section, add:
> 
> MSI K9N2 SLI Platinum
> Phase: 4+1
> Heatsink: Yes
> CPU TDP: 140W
> CPU power plug: 8-pin
> Quality vrm= Don't know
> Low RDson=Don't know
> Transistors= Don't know
> Form factor= ATX
> 
> Yes, I own this board.


adding


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## Kvjavs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;12502516*
> What is wrong with them?


Nevermind, how stupid of me. I thought you meant to type 785s. Just checked ECS's website and those are indeed boards... how goofy


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## xd_1771

MSI NF-750-G55 isn't an odd one out... looks like it may suffer from the same MSI VRM problems unlike what you thought reflex99. here comes the horror story... BOOM


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## BlackHoleSon

I think my board has 3+1 phases? Not sure.


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## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12526358*
> MSI NF-750-G55 isn't an odd one out... looks like it may suffer from the same MSI VRM problems unlike what you thought reflex99. here comes the horror story... BOOM


CHIV's have exploded, doesn't mean it is a bad board.

I don't see the same trend with the G55 as i see with other boards.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BlackHoleSon;12526548*
> I think my board has 3+1 phases? Not sure.


appears so


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## xd_1771

Well, I don't think the NF-750-G55 is something that is bought a lot.... we may not be seeing it just yet


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## reflex99

It is pretty popular board.

Probably has something to do with it being the less crappy of the 2 750a boards


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## Artikbot

Someone edit the first page, the M4A89GTD Pro/USB3 isn't 8+2, it's 10+2.


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## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot;12530909*
> Someone edit the first page, the M4A89GTD Pro/USB3 isn't 8+2, it's 10+2.


proof?

We both see it as 8+2.


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## koven

i thought the TA890FXE was 6+2


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## xd_1771

The official site states M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 as an 8+2. The TA890FXE looking at the board's soldering joints is a 4+2.


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## raisethe3

I agree. Its is a 8+2.







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;12533107*
> proof?
> 
> We both see it as 8+2.


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## spleenharvester

Just to add, my GF615M-P33 just smoked from a FET in the CPU regulation area. Shoulda really looked at this guide beforehand.


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## reflex99

Were you overclocking?


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## Chuckclc

Can I get confirmation that this is a 8+2 phase board from MSI? I didnt know they made them.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130565


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## reflex99

Yes it is 8+2

Msi seems to have realized that 4+1 is not good for highend boards.

Both of the boards they releleased this year are 8+2


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## xd_1771

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spleenharvester;12533697*
> Just to add, my GF615M-P33 just smoked from a FET in the CPU regulation area. Shoulda really looked at this guide beforehand.










Sucks it happened with a 95W processor
Then again it's an AM2-based 4-phase and rated 95W as Max TDP


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## reflex99

I have a 95w phenom on a similar board.

Almost 6months now of perfect opperation.


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## xd_1771

Does anyone have info on VVIKOO boards? (VVIKOO is a Japanese French board manufacutrer - caps look of good quality, but I'm not too sure about the rest of the VRM area)


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## reflex99

probably a little too obscure.


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## returned4good

This thread rules. Definitely deserving of stickiness. +1 Rep


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## Lostintyme

ASUS M4A785-M
Phases 4+1
Heatsinked: No
CPU TDP 125w
CPU power plug 8 pin

Can take an overclocked X4 955, and according to some other users, an overclocked 1055T.


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## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lostintyme;12546114*
> ASUS M4A785-M
> Phases 4+1
> Heatsinked: No
> CPU TDP 125w
> CPU power plug 8 pin
> 
> Can take an overclocked X4 955, and according to some other users, an overclocked 1055T.


added


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## Lostintyme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;12546402*
> added


Whoops, change power connector to 4 pin please.


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## returned4good

Asrock M3A770DE
AM3
Phase 4+1
Heatsinked:No
TDP:140w
Cpu pin: 8

Form submitted


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## beers

Hey, fix that M3A790GXH/128M, it has an 8 pin CPU power connector


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## moonmanas

A1+++ helpful thread indeed


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## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *beers;12547680*
> Hey, fix that M3A790GXH/128M, it has an 8 pin CPU power connector


done


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## PhillyOverclocker

Excellent job! I will be referring to this thread before making any mobo purchases from now on. Rep+

In addition to being a very valuable resource for current OCNers, this is the kind of thing that draws visitors to our site as well. I have been learning a good deal lately about the different VRMs and how much a 4+1 power phase can hinder overclocking, as well as be very dangerous to board and chip. I am glad that more of this info has been coming to light lately. I hope that motherboard manufacturers begin taking heed to using cheap mosfets and cooling.


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## reflex99

Thanks for the comment.


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## N2Gaming

I had no idea the Foxconn Destroyer was only 4*1 phase. That helps explain a lot.

Oh btw the MSI NF980-G65 is listed as a NF980-GD65 The D should not be there


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## The_Punisher

Nice work on this. I was going to add my board but I see its been taken care of. I can vouch for the accuracy of that info, I ran mine without heatsinks at 1.475v for the longest time, now that I'm on 1.55v I have heatsinks but its solid for being a budget board.


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## xd_1771

Looks like AsRock is plunging back into the stone age
I see cheaptastic VRMs on their latest AM3+ boards


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## Disturbed117

why was msi not smart enough to add 8+2 on the 890fxa








board has lots of potential too if it wasn't for 4+1


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## MightyMission

im intrigued now,after consistently abusing my sigrig 24/7 with up to 1.6v cpu and reading all the horror stories about 4+1/2 phases going up in smoke im wondering if its generalisation by association?


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## Disturbed117

depends on the quality of the vrms


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## Atomfix

Gigabyte GA-790FXTA-UD5

790FX Chipset with 140W CPU Support

8+2 Power Phase


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## Krusher33

Is it possible to see the makers of the VRM's or find documentation on which maker is supply the VRM's for certain boards?


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## coonmanx

This needs to get stickied as it is very good reference information.


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## pioneerisloud

Anybody that actually RUNS a good board, care to make me a recommendation in the sub $150 bracket (roughly)? Thread here. Wanting to take a 1055T to very very high speeds.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Ok, I've been doing research on boards lately and i've found one that supports 140W cpu. When I oc'ed and unlocked my X2 on my MSI 770-C45, CPUZ was showing a 158W Max TDP. If i want to have those same settings on my new board will the 158W max TDP be a problem for a 140W board (ASUS M4A88TD-V EVO)?

These are the settings on the MSI board. (I've since locked the cores down and dropped the multiplier)


----------



## N2Gaming

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coonmanx;12570399*
> This needs to get stickied as it is very good reference information.


This ^ I was thinking man I wish there was a thread like this a few years ago .


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MightyMission;12566800*
> im intrigued now,after consistently abusing my sigrig 24/7 with up to 1.6v cpu and reading all the horror stories about 4+1/2 phases going up in smoke im wondering if its generalisation by association?


Destroyer is very high quality, although 1.6 is a lot. I would try to keep it under that.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krusher33;12567941*
> Is it possible to see the makers of the VRM's or find documentation on which maker is supply the VRM's for certain boards?


It is not possible, even if it was, I'm not sure how to read chinese.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coonmanx;12570399*
> This needs to get stickied as it is very good reference information.


agree 110%
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud;12576795*
> Anybody that actually RUNS a good board, care to make me a recommendation in the sub $150 bracket (roughly)? Thread here. Wanting to take a 1055T to very very high speeds.


Biostar TA890FXE
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *N2Gaming;12577663*
> This ^ I was thinking man I wish there was a thread like this a few years ago .


What a great idea *hint hint*


----------



## N2Gaming

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;12578690*
> Destroyer is very high quality, although 1.6 is a lot. I would try to keep it under that.
> 
> What a great idea *hint hint*


I think the Destroyers BIOS's are designed w/this in mind to prevent premature burnouts. I have a theory that this is the primary reason we don't get a bios to support the Ph II X6 CPU's on the Destroyer mobo's.

+1 for this list.


----------



## xd_1771

I've added a new "Recommended Max TDP" column
Also we should start an AM3+ table soon. ASRock just released a platoon of AM3+ boards - not just 890FX Deluxe5 either. I found a gallery on PCGH.de full of pics of them. Oh yeah... cheap 4+1 VRM alert for anything lower than 890FX-Deluxe5


----------



## reflex99

Current boards below 890GX Extreme3 are all 4+1. Not really that much different.

Pretty high quality though. People have been running X6s in the 870 boards just fine.

And yea, AM3+ i'll get on that.


----------



## reflex99

added AM3+ sheet.

Nothing on it yet, but it will get there.


----------



## xd_1771

Really? I'm not confident in an unheatsinked 3-transistor design powering 8 cores


----------



## hunjik

thanks for the information


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


Really? I'm not confident in an unheatsinked 3-transistor design powering 8 cores


we still don't know how BD will do with power.

1 module sounds more like it will be like HT on steroids rather than 2 cores


----------



## matroska

AM3+, the one i have seen so far was the MSI Conqueror, but there isn't much info on it though...

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...ning-gpus.html


----------



## xd_1771

More AM3+ ASRock boards added!


----------



## MrAMD_Fan

Should i be worried about my board? Should i get the M4A89TD Pro/USB3? Is the 6+2 phase good enough? I don't overclock right now but.......


----------



## reflex99

The 89TD pro is a good high quality board.

Much better than the 890GXM-G65


----------



## MrAMD_Fan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;12615381*
> The 89TD pro is a good high quality board.
> 
> Much better than the 890GXM-G65


Thanks... i may pickup an open box one....


----------



## xd_1771

6+2 will be good enough to begin with, and ASUS so good quality


----------



## linkin93

How can I check what my board has so I can submit it to the list?

EDIT: Nevermind, I suck at spreadsheets, lol.


----------



## xd_1771

We already have it listed


----------



## MrAMD_Fan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12615512*
> 6+2 will be good enough to begin with, and ASUS so good quality


Good enough for a 955BE you mean? The 890GTD was $94.99 + shipping for an open box. The 890TD is $179.99 and no open box available. But now the GTD OB is OOS.....








I guess i'll save my pennies for the TD or something else.....







Thanks!
Great info on here! Go Hawks! Heh,heh


----------



## xd_1771

955BE should be quite fine








Doesn't hurt to wait by the way, better deals with come and Newegg does restock, eventually......

Eh, the Hawks... won't be in the playoffs to ruin it again for the Canucks this time around


----------



## HobieCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12616000*
> Eh, the Hawks... won't be in the playoffs to ruin it again for the Canucks this time around


Good, it's about time a Canadian team wins the cup again.


----------



## MrAMD_Fan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HobieCat;12616238*
> Good, it's about time a Canadian team wins the cup again.


Too bad the hawks are in 4th place now








on a 7 game win streak.....
don't think they can win the cup again.... tho.... heh,heh


----------



## raisethe3

Just wait for Bulldozer, I mean, we're like only few months away?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MrAMD_Fan*


Good enough for a 955BE you mean? The 890GTD was $94.99 + shipping for an open box. The 890TD is $179.99 and no open box available. But now the GTD OB is OOS.....








I guess i'll save my pennies for the TD or something else.....







Thanks!
Great info on here! Go Hawks! Heh,heh


----------



## reflex99

bulldozer is going to be fun, probably will move the AM3+ sheet to the top of the list


----------



## MrAMD_Fan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *raisethe3*


Just wait for Bulldozer, I mean, we're like only few months away?


Yeah, i thought about that but i've only had my current setup about a year and i don't typically go out and buy new stuff when it comes out. I'm a cheapskate! But perhaps i could get a AM3+ board when it comes out and use my current cpu.


----------



## reflex99

that would probably be a smart move


----------



## raisethe3

That's what I wanted to do. But problem is, there's no AM3+ boards that are out there yet.

@ASUS- Where are you CFV Gene? Lol.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MrAMD_Fan*


Yeah, i thought about that but i've only had my current setup about a year and i don't typically go out and buy new stuff when it comes out. I'm a cheapskate! *But perhaps i could get a AM3+ board when it comes out and use my current cpu*.


It is.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


that would probably be a smart move


----------



## reflex99

the 890FXA-GD65 claims AM3+ support (silkscreened on the board)

If it ends up not working with am3+, then just get up in msi's grill, and make them replace it.


----------



## MrAMD_Fan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


the 890FXA-GD65 claims AM3+ support (silkscreened on the board)

If it ends up not working with am3+, then just get up in msi's grill, and make them replace it.


I'm not in a hurry, i'm gonna skip MSI for a while i think.... good point tho'
EDIT: They are now saying Q4 2011 for BD release????? wow AMD will be way behind by then......


----------



## raisethe3

All I saw was Q2. In fact, I read on the Bulldozer blog that it was coming out in June of this year. Don't know the exact date though. I wouldn't trust it 100%.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MrAMD_Fan*


I'm not in a hurry, i'm gonna skip MSI for a while i think.... good point tho'
EDIT: *They are now saying Q4 2011 for BD release????? *wow AMD will be way behind by then......


----------



## indus

How do you know about the low RDS on mosfets.According to gigabyte marketing all their boards are low RDS with ultra durable 3 nickname.The box says 140 w cpu which i find hard to believe myself though.

I have this one http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3141#ov but your chart mentions NO low rds for mosfet.Can you clarify?

Funny thing is , with default bios settings the board sets vcore at a high 1.425 V ,i reduced it to 1.3 to bring cpu temps down by a whopping 20c.

Good thread btw.Awesome information both this and the other vrm thread.


----------



## reflex99

xd_1771 did the gigabyte list.

To me,since the mosfets only have 3 legs, usually indicates non-lowRDS(on)


----------



## xd_1771

Newer boards are low RDS (on); most older ones and a couple of new ones aren't. That one is an older one.


----------



## Dreamlane

Why is this not stickied?


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreamlane;12631518*
> Why is this not stickied?


Mods


----------



## ~CS~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreamlane;12631518*
> Why is this not stickied?


Well I'm glad it isn't.There is a lot of misinformation and misconception within this thread. I understand it's meant to be helpful,but its way to green to be considered sticky,overclock.net would loose more credibility then anything else.

For one manufacturers are very sneaky,as to how they label the phases,some boards are labeled 8+2 but are in fact 4+1 and are just using 2 chokes/filtering coils per phase,now these don't produce any current,it's just a technicality the allows a manufacturer to label the board 8+2 instead of 4+1.

And in fact there is nothing wrong with a 4+1 setup,it's also happens to be AMD reference design specification.

What should matter is quality,type and number of mosfets,which are mentioned here,however the information here is mostly speculative and not anywhere near 100% accurate.

Just keep in mind whenever you overclock you coming out of spec and need to take extra steps to protect your gear,it's ok to overclock on cheap boards,but you have to add additional cooling and just be more cautious,and in the end if the board happens to blow,don't blame it.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *~CS~;12645158*
> Well I'm glad it isn't.There is a lot of misinformation and misconception within this thread. I understand it's meant to be helpful,but its way to green to be considered sticky,overclock.net would loose more credibility then anything else.
> 
> For one manufacturers are very sneaky,as to how they label the phases,some boards are labeled 8+2 but are in fact 4+1 and are just using 2 chokes/filtering coils per phase,now these don't produce any current,it's just a technicality the allows a manufacturer to label the board 8+2 instead of 4+1.
> 
> And in fact there is nothing wrong with a 4+1 setup,it's also happens to be AMD reference design specification.
> 
> What should matter is quality,type and number of mosfets,which are mentioned here,however the information here is mostly speculative and not anywhere near 100% accurate.
> 
> Just keep in mind whenever you overclock you coming out of spec and need to take extra steps to protect your gear,it's ok to overclock on cheap boards,but you have to add additional cooling and just be more cautious,and in the end if the board happens to blow,don't blame it.


We are in the process of labeling split phase boards.

They are marked with an *.

Like I said a few times, it is still a work in progress

If you wanted to actually be constructive, you could post some corrections.

And I am considering removing the "quality" collum as it is getting difficult to put stuff there...


----------



## reflex99

Ok, some changes are being made from the sheet.

The "Good Quality VRMs" column has been removed, as like the above poster said, it was a little too subjective.

When i have time, i will get arround to replacing it with a "Confirmed board failure" column that will contain links to examples of specific board failure.

I hope this makes the list a little more clear, and less confusing.

Thoughts?

EDIT: also added a note about split phase designs


----------



## Belial

On the Biostar A770E7 you say that the chips have Low RDS(on) as "Yes?"

As the owner of the board who's just learning about VRM's through this, xd_1771, and http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Everything-You-Need-to-Know-About-The-Motherboard-Voltage-Regulator-Circuit/616/3, I can tell you that the Low RDS(on) is "NO" because the mosfet transistors are 3 leg with the center one cut.

Please change to reflect this!


----------



## Dromihetes

I think there is a confusion regarding RDS ON term and MOSFET capsules.
RDS On is a characteristic of any field effect transistor (N channel or P channel ), they all have it.

As you can see here this is the data sheet of K3919 aka NEC 2SK3919 mosfet ,the ones that i have on my 770-UD3 rev 2.0 mobo.
If you read carefully you will see that though the transistor is in a TO 252 capsule with 3 legs (one cut but the back is connected to it) ,it still features a RDS On characteristic per specific voltages.
The ones with 4 legs are incased in some other capsule and i presume they have some enhancements regarding fabrication process and RDS On characteristics.
As with any chip ,new fabrication process lowers the heat they make.

RDS ON =Drain to Source On State resistance

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:7Sudlo_ZYS4J:www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheets2/17/171458_1.pdf+K+3919+mosfet&hl=ro&gl=ro&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiuzzdZxonAbfXvpc7dIt1gp6Ck7I90FMum2LqKa95kAKj1OJKST1BLdquDbgurUGC2s4z-rqvsnrIlzpqAHv2oSj-lps0eKWuLFSTednF9-4hz5x2goT5zafnBNR4XCF5t9hjR&sig=AHIEtbQvWtXHbUWk3OV2Epk6QRX85Y-GPw


----------



## xd_1771

Near the notes section I will be adding a "MOSFET type" column On second thought I'll use the Transistor type column for that
In light of this thread shedding more info about MOSFETs themselves and which ones are good on bad (i.e. Nikos = bad)

reflex can you update the submission sheet, so that "transistor type" becomes "transistor INFO" and people can submit what type of MOSFET is on that board?
Thanks.


----------



## reflex99

When I get back home later tonight I will make some changes.

Thanks for all the input guys


----------



## reflex99

All suggestions noted, and sheet adjusted where necessary.

EDIT: also added a "resources" section to the bottom. Useful threads/information will go there.


----------



## Pentdragon

What's a "Low RDS (on)?"
I got a Asus M488TD-V EVO/USB3, how can i check? I'd like to help your project by spreading the body of knowledge.









Off topic
Quote:


> Originally Posted by DayoftheGreek View Post
> Everyone quick! SPECULATE AS HARD AS YOU CAN!!!!
> Bulldozer has 9 letters and that's greater than the 7 from i7 but bulldozer has MODULES instead of hyperthreading so that's like 9x1.75 which is greater than 7x1.5. Suck it intel! The south with rise again!


This makes me chuckle every time i read it


----------



## Belial

^ I think RDS On refers to a sort of chipset efficiency for the mosfet transistors, to reduce power consumption and therefore heat. You can tell if it's on or off by the number of 'legs' the mosfet chips have, 3 with the center one cut, or 4.

But Dromihetes post seems to indicate that newer chipsets may have just 3 legs but still have the feature because of better manufacturing processes recently, if I'm reading it right.

I'm sure you can find out about your motherboard in the table on the first thread or searching "transistor type asus xxxx", you're board has heatsinks on them so I can't tell by pics. It seems to be pretty good board with having so many phases and heatsinks?


----------



## Belial

also I think the Biostar A770E3 transistor type is 3 transistors, no drivers. If I am doing it rite, I believe this is indicative of seeing 3 identical mosfet chips per phase, as opposed to 2 mosfet chips and a third chip with 8 legs (the driver). Instead there is only 1 driver (for the entire VRM module), and I believe that 3rd mosfet chipset is doing the job of the driver instead (a way for motherboards to cut costs, from what I learned).

edit: weird there are no pics of my motherboard - biostar a770e3. on newegg reviews you see people say "oh cool it came in a different red/black color", which is what I got, but looking at the picture, I realized the VRM is totally different. On the pictured mobo, there is 2 mosfet chips (cant find the driver or 3rd chip, not sure what modulates the power) but on my red/black version, there is just 3 x 3legged mosfet chips. Also, the 'older' board version has an obvious open, round ferrite choke at the top corner (not for phase though, not sure what its for).


----------



## Belial

After reading this article:
http://www.overclock.net/amd-motherboards/959289-cpu-vrm-mosfets-transistor-discussion.html

I was like "i wonder how to identify what mosfets I have" only to see a big "NIKOS" on the mosfet chips.

T_________________________T


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Belial;12666512*
> After reading this article:
> http://www.overclock.net/amd-motherboards/959289-cpu-vrm-mosfets-transistor-discussion.html
> 
> I was like "i wonder how to identify what mosfets I have" only to see a big "NIKOS" on the mosfet chips.











It s a military grade MOSFET









I repeat ,RDS ON is the resistance that the field effect transistor -MOSFET , has between Drain and Source.

A field effect transistor has 3 pins(connectors).
One it s called Gate ,one Drain and one is Source.
The specific thing is that when you apply current to the Gate the Drain to Source path opens and becomes a resistence practically.
Depeding on the mosfet quality it goes towards 0 Ohm more or less.

If this jonction goes towards 0 Ohm then the transistor gives less heat ,at least his is what i understood.
This Drain to Source should become wide open when current is applyed not when is not powered.
The newer the MOSFET the lower this RDS On is.Less resistence means less heat delivered.

In power switching voltage supplyers ,the capcitors and the MOSFET need to have the lowest equivalent ressitance for maixmum efficiency and working low heat.

This is what i know ,i have to say that i am a simple audio amateur ,building smalll amplifiers so i m not some pro or graduate in this technical filed.
I may be mistaking in my statements here and there so take my statements with a grain of salt.

MOSFET : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOSFET


----------



## Belial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Everything-You-Need-to-Know-About-The-Motherboard-Voltage-Regulator-Circuit/616/3*
> An easy way to differentiate the two is by counting the number of available terminals. Traditional transistors have three legs, with the center leg usually cut, while transistors with low RDS(on) have four or more legs and all of them are soldered to the motherboard.


Are you mixing them up Dromihetes? I would defer to you on this matter but this article says differently. From the sound of that first post of yours, you said 'newer transistors' are better now, and this article is a year old, but this article says 3 leg doens't have RDS on and you saying they do.

From what I understand though, high vs low quality VRM is all about how much heat they produce and how much they use, from more phases meaning lower loads on each, to electrolytic capacitors not as tolerant to heat as solid capacitors. This is why I plan to put makeshift heatsinks on my mosfets on my motherboard, even though it's recommended not to overvolt/unlock on it.


----------



## Dromihetes

Belial ,have you took the time to read this data sheet ?!

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:7Sudlo_ZYS4J:www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheets2/17/171458_1.pdf+K+3919+mosfet&hl=ro&gl=ro&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiuzzdZxonAbfXvpc7dIt1gp6Ck7I90FMum2LqKa95kAKj1OJKST1BLdquDbgurUGC2s4z-rqvsnrIlzpqAHv2oSj-lps0eKWuLFSTednF9-4hz5x2goT5zafnBNR4XCF5t9hjR&sig=AHIEtbQvWtXHbUWk3OV2Epk6QRX85Y-GPw

Read the Electrical characteristics chart on the right .It s a NEC data sheet from 2005.That transistor is used on 770-UD3 v2.0 (my sample)
Look carefully you will see RDS ON specifications.
So do they have it or not ?!

The problem is the level of that RDS On ,higher or lower.Lower means better more suited for Power MOSFET
I will not say nothing about that article.

As you can see the mosfet from wikipedia there is stated that there are different MOSFETS ,take a read there as well.

The problem is the quality of this MOSFETS not necesarelly the incapsulation of them.
The 4 leged MOSFET must be something superior ,but this doesnt mean that the mosfets in TO 252 capsule are no good ,as a lot of people have mobos with them and they are working.

We need an electronics engineer over here to explain this







.

Brand counts of course







,just the fact they have 4 legs doesnt mean to much


----------



## xd_1771

I recommend a slight rename of this article:
"AMD Motherboard TDP and VRM system info"
Or something similar. I find this as a useful resource for TDP support as well as VRM info.

Low RDS (on) is a new type of MOSFET that is smaller and runs cooler.

Belial perhaps you could take a pic of your mobo and post it here for reference?


----------



## Belial

Forgive me, I literally didn't know what the difference between a PSU and a GPU was a month ago. I was sorta forced into building a computer (roommate moved his shared computer into a not-so-shared-his-bedroom when I came back from a month in Africa) and I had to make a computer that could play like a high level gaming computer for $420 or less (limit I had on credit card, I still haven't paid rent on time since January). I think I've learned a lot about computers, and starting to notice that I am sometimes more knowledgeable than forum members on tech websites. I now know how to thoroughly overclock through Bios (not BE either, thats ******ed) everything in a system, I just learned about what makes a motherboard besides "can it fit" this week (basically VRM quality), and find that I am relatively, quite knowledgeable about PC hardware.

So with that said, I'll take a look at those articles, but I may have a hard time understanding without being told 'exactly' where to read.

Now I totally dig what you are saying - if my motherboard is actually high quality and can handle me unlocking and overvolting even though it's a 3+1 with solid capacitors on the phase but many electrolytic Taiwanese OCTs, 3 legged mosfets instead of 4, and an extra mosfet instead of a driver, that's completely awesome. xd_1771 would say I'm being stupid, but I am in the process of putting makeshift heatsinks on my mosfets so I can be safe.

I don't really understand why you won't comment on the article, but as the quote shows, it states pretty clearly that 3 legged is worse than 4. You do realize I am talking about my own Biostar A770E3 motherboard, not some MSI board right? And just because it works doesn't mean it's safe, or won't blow out later. I didn't even say what kind of NIKOS chips I have. I can hardly, hardly read them, and there appears to be 3 or 4 kind all over my mobo. The mosfets say:
NIKOS
P06030BDL
SIE344B1 [sic, it's impossible to make this one out]

i really have no clue how to read that electrical chart, I'm really just learning about all of this now and my knowlege is that article I posted. But from what I read, Biostar > MSI for VRM quality, although it doesn't really matter as the motherboard company doesn't make the chipsets, capacitors, transistors, or drivers - the mobo company just selects the parts and hopefully they select a good company and configuration, and it's hard to find information about it. I think that 99% of overclockers don't even know about the VRM so it's hard to find people talking on forums about it they just go "ah sucks you blew out your motherboard, you should replace your PSU".


----------



## Dromihetes

NIKOS P06030BDL are the ones that fail on MSI mobos
NIKOS P04030BDL are the ones that crapped on my mobo and they have no data sheet ,they don t exist









As you can see Nikos imprint is not carved into the plastic capsule so it can be changed modified or whatever.
Quality manufacturers of semiconductors imprint the code into the plastic capsule ,can t be faked easy.

Also the MOSFETS are "pulsed" by another chip ,this can be different on the makers as well.
The MOSFETS can be selected by some worker before beeing installed or they can just use them ,maybe this is one of the secrets.

Practically you say your BIOSTAR works even if it has those mosfets.You will be one of the people to tell us if they work better on the BIOSTAR than on MSI ,but keep in mind that the characteristics of this Mosfets ,as niko-sem states them are not great.
You really can t compare the quality of Nikos to National Semiconductor ,Fairchild ,Renesas etc , as well as you can t compare Rubycon capacitors to Teapo.

Even if Biostar VRM > MSI VRM , what is the problem









I m just expressing my opinion ,that Nikos mosfets are not trustfull for CPU VRM incarnations and not necesarrely because they have 3 legs.
I m pretty sure that if you would like to make a custom project with some Power Mosfets involved you would choose something else instead of Nikos.








Yes ,you can use them in low temperature areas on the mobo, they may be ok ,but what if they simply have leaks (bad manufacturing) and that is the thing killing them ?
As you can see they don t go in smoke imediatelly , they need time to cook.

Edit:
http://products.niko-sem.com/index.php?action=prod_list&cat=24

As you can see P0603BDL seems to have RDS On a little higher than P0603BD

Nikos P0603BD is the one used on the 870A-G54

I see that on your mobo the MOSFETS are also installed with biger gaps between themselves ,maybe a better heat disipation per capita.


----------



## Belial

Motherboard Biostar A770E3 (that's clearly different from the one pictured on newegg - besides red/black color scheme instead of blue/yellow/orange, VRM looks different)









(Close up of VRM, the +1 is above CPU socket so the view is blocked of it).









I think it's a 3+1, of course, there's that different type of choke, as you can see (the darker one with raised letters instead of printed). There is another of that smaller choke by RAM memory. I think 3+1 is CPU+IMC right? So I have like 5 phases in total on the motherboard? So is it a 3CPU+1IMC+1RAM? Or 4CPU+1RAM? Or 3(CPU)+1(RAM)? There's 3 of those ferrite block chokes with gold letters, then another one above the socket that's blocked by the tower cooler in the 2nd picture, and then there's 2 of those smaller raised-lettering ferrite chokes, one in between the top two solid capacitors as you can see in the picture and one on the right side of the board on the side edge by the RAM. Ah, confusing ;/


----------



## Belial

yea i believe i see 0603BDL on my mosfets on the CPU VRM, but the CPU VRM drivers are 0903BDL, and the 0903BDL are also on my RAM, Northbridge, and various other places (i think everywhere but the mosfets used on the CPU).

I almost feel like your replying to posts I made in another thread lol:
http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/716746-offical-amd-athlon-ii-x3-owners-41.html

anyways hope once I put modded heatsinks on those mosfets, I'll be safe to overclock and slightly overvolt my 125w rated board o_o


----------



## xd_1771

Is there a letter "P" before this number?
What worries me is that this might be using NIKOS MOSFETs...


----------



## Belial

^ yes, there is.

There's also a big "NIKOS" on it. I already said in the earlier posts on this thread that they are crappy mosfets (I figured it out because I read a thread about bad mosfets, and I was wondering how to identify mine when I saw they were the same brand as the poster in that thread = Nikos).

I already freaked out about this :O


----------



## theamdman

Can we use c10's in sted of c1's?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835708012


----------



## xd_1771

Be sure they'll fit on, they're a bit bigger... may be useful for boards such as 880GMA-UD2H where MOSFETs are low RDS and in groups of four.


----------



## xd_1771

Looks like we'll definitely have to caution the low-end Biostar boards. The fact that this is a 3+1 makes it worse.
EDIT: Sorry bout double post here, thought I was editing a post.

Also I opened up my dad's office PC, also a Biostar 3+1 board with 2-transistor design. It's an A785GE, got it free with an Athlon II x4 630 Looked at the MOSFETs... yep, they're a NIKOS.
Oh sh-- they are everywhere
P0903BDG are the ones on the CPU VRM and all over the board
The secondary transistors which act as the drivers are P75N02LDG


----------



## reflex99

I really don't think that anything nikos is instant crap....


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;12675868*
> I really don't think that anything nikos is instant crap....


They are no instant crap.
As you can see they need some time to go boom.
On mine they needed 11 months.
My PC is 16 hours a day in stress in games mostly ,games that require processing power i also had some good airflow on most of them ,not too good on the ones that feed the NB as they are placed up , in a dead airflow area.

A PC with Nikos mosfets that is used 2-3 hours a day may last over the warranty period ,who knows.
What i ve observed on mine is that the stein themselves on the edges first , before craping out.

They simply can t stand heat in a specific amount.

Maybe people that fold would observe them crapping out faster than 11 months.

Time will tell.

Just don t leave your PC unsupervised.


----------



## LostRib

will my motherboard explode? http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=M3A785GXH/128M

I couldnt find it specifically on the spreadsheet


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LostRib;12683823*
> will my motherboard explode? http://[/QUOTE]
> It will not explod... PC on when you are not at home and thats it.


----------



## Belial

You have solid capacitors, 8 pin CPU power, and ferrite chokes, on the plus side.

On the bad side, it's 4+1 (instead of 8+1, or more phases/channels), you do not have efficient RDS on, you have an extra mosfet (3 identical chips per channel, those small chipsets) instead of a dedicated mosfet driver (better to have 2 mosfet chips and a 3rd chip that has 8 legs, which controls the mosfet voltage).

My impression is that having solid capacitors and more phases are the most important things. You should read the markets on your MOSFET chips and try to discern the quality of them. From what I understand, the differences between Mosfet chips is how hot will they get, and how well they can handle the heat, with low quality voltage regulator modules being more susceptible to heat and at the same time generating more heat.

If you go to 4 cores or unlock, maybe use heatsinks on them or get a better board. You can look up your board on google, see if people had issues with it blowing out.

How exactly are the "We Recommend" setting figured out on the table? I see boards with 'worse' specs than others being recommended for more than others - at a quick glance.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Belial;12684825*
> You have solid capacitors, 8 pin CPU power, and ferrite chokes, on the plus side.
> 
> On the bad side, it's 4+1 (instead of 8+1, or more phases/channels), you do not have efficient RDS on, you have an extra mosfet (3 identical chips per channel, those small chipsets) instead of a dedicated mosfet driver (better to have 2 mosfet chips and a 3rd chip that has 8 legs, which controls the mosfet voltage).
> 
> My impression is that having solid capacitors and more phases are the most important things. You should read the markets on your MOSFET chips and try to discern the quality of them. From what I understand, the differences between Mosfet chips is how hot will they get, and how well they can handle the heat, with low quality voltage regulator modules being more susceptible to heat and at the same time generating more heat.
> 
> If you go to 4 cores or unlock, maybe use heatsinks on them or get a better board. You can look up your board on google, see if people had issues with it blowing out.
> 
> How exactly are the "We Recommend" setting figured out on the table? I see boards with 'worse' specs than others being recommended for more than others - at a quick glance.


The chip with 8 legs is called a driver.

I am not sure how XD did it. Pretty sure it is based on brand history, and "horror stories" for the most part.


----------



## xd_1771

My money is put on the amount of channels (though this depends on the processor and how much voltage is used) as well as MOSFET quality. MOSFETs that are not low RDS usually run much hotter. Having a 3rd transistor chip is much more inefficient and cheap. Solid caps are definitely good too, but even the worst low end motherboards that might be known to blow can have solid caps and they don't make a difference.

The "We recommend" section is based on brand history and horror stories indeed, but also looks at the overall quality, i.e. if the MOSFETs are low RDS or not. You may notice what I deem to be more decent 4+1 boards (i.e. Gigabyte higher-end with low RDS, most ASUS) to be labelled "125W, OC w/cooling" while the other low-end ones (like many ASRock) are labelled "125W, no OC" or otherwise. Changes can be requested and posted here of course.


----------



## Pentdragon

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LostRib*


will my motherboard explode? http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.as...M3A785GXH/128M

I couldnt find it specifically on the spreadsheet



I had a really bad experience with Asrock M3A770 DE, maybe i was unlucky but that mobo was complete crap, i had to Clear_Cmos many times just to convince the mobo to POST.
But when my Asus was powered up the first time it POSTed right the way, i'm loving this motherboard, though it is fairly expensive it's not out of reach.


----------



## Customx3

Yo people! what board should i get?

Ive currently got an Asus m3n78-vm with an Amd Athlon II X2 215 and the kind sir above named "xd_1771" pointed out that i needed a new motherboard due to the fact that my cpu is a quad but is locked? and says i need a board that can unlock it... So do any of you guys know which board can do this and wont fry under large overclocks?


----------



## Dromihetes

For your CPU could be

Gigabyte 770-UD3 v2.x with MOSFET heatsink in case of insane overclock
Gigabyte 770T-UD3 or 770-UD3P -make sure the revision you get is VRM heatsink ready as well even if you may not need it.
Gigabyte 870-UD3
MSI 790FX-GD70


----------



## Customx3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes;12703060*
> For your CPU could be
> 
> Gigabyte 770-UD3 v2.x with MOSFET heatsink in case of insane overclock
> Gigabyte 770T-UD3 or 770-UD3P -make sure the revision you get is VRM heatsink ready as well even if you may not need it.
> Gigabyte 870-UD3
> MSI 790FX-GD70


So any of these can unlock it like he says?


----------



## xd_1771

What budget range do you propose?
Remember also, I recommended a new board, but to get a new board to be able to unlock is your choice; it's a definite possibility, but is of course a bonus.
Get anything with SB710 or above and at least a decent 4+1 VRM with heatsinks or an 8+2 VRM and you'd be fine. A 770 or 870 chipset board would be great around $100 range.


----------



## Customx3

What about this: Gigabyte GA-MA790FXT-UD5P ?

Will this be capable of unlocking it? I believe it is an 8+2, i like it and i just have one question, i dont have an 8 pin connector for the cpu, will it work with just a 4 pin for now till i can get a new psu as well? And it is the sb750 chipset i believe so as long as its above 710 its all good?


----------



## xd_1771

That'll work definitely, it'd be a great board if you can find it for a decent price.
Remember to get an Am2+ board if you wish to stick with DDR2, and AM3 if you want DDR3
You can use just a 4-pin for it, I'm pretty sure.


----------



## Customx3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12707173*
> That'll work definitely, it'd be a great board if you can find it for a decent price.
> Remember to get an Am2+ board if you wish to stick with DDR2, and AM3 if you want DDR3
> You can use just a 4-pin for it, I'm pretty sure.


The board i mentioned above is Am3 correct? and will the cpu work in either am2 or 3?


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Customx3;12707582*
> The board i mentioned above is Am3 correct? and will the cpu work in either am2 or 3?


Yes , the CPU you re talking about should run in both AM2 + and AM 3 motherboards.
On the AM2 + you will use DDR 2 and on the AM 3 mobo DDR 3 memory.

By the way , your power supply sucks , get a decent one , some cheap Chieftec properly selected , if you can t afford a Corsair or Seasonic.


----------



## xd_1771

I have to agree, I replaced two of those in my family's budget builds with better models. The power supply isn't 480W rated to begin with, it's 330W/480W peak, and the quality is mediocre.


----------



## Customx3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes;12707685*
> Yes , the CPU you re talking about should run in both AM2 + and AM 3 motherboards.
> On the AM2 + you will use DDR 2 and on the AM 3 mobo DDR 3 memory.
> 
> By the way , your power supply sucks , get a decent one , some cheap Chieftec properly selected , if you can t afford a Corsair or Seasonic.


Thank you!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12708981*
> I have to agree, I replaced two of those in my family's budget builds with better models. The power supply isn't 480W rated to begin with, it's 330W/480W peak, and the quality is mediocre.


And i plan to before i get the motherboard, i know i dont need anything really above like 500-600 watts but was looking at the Mushkin 1200w Joule, as for later upgrades i have planned... but am not sure yet, just an idea right now...


----------



## Belial

I strongly recommend the Antec Earthwatts series for PSU's. The 380 should be all you need, I went with the 430 because I'm paranoid - even with a Fermi powerhungry GPU and quadcore like I got.

The wattage of a PSU is also somewhat misleading - what is really important is how much wattage is on the 12v 'rails'. On a high quality, modern, _dependable/reputable brand_ PSU, the majority of their wattage will be on the 12v rails. On crappy PSU's, you may have less than 50% of the power on the 12v rails, meaning a 500w PSU is more like a 200W psu. So be careful when you buy. You can do a search and look up something to the effect of "12v rail wattage psu" but the calculation is amperage x 12v1 + amperage x 12v2 (assuming there is a 2nd 12v rail). That's the number you need to keep in mind - then, simply google "extreme powercalc" and figure out how much wattage you need.

But all those technical details aside, currently the Earthwatts are the only budget PSU's that are 80+ rated (ie are more than 80% efficient, to be simple about it). There really is no reason to go above 400 watts unless you are doing _both_ SLI/Crossfire 2x GPU solutions and overclocking . Basically, your GPU and CPU are the real power drains, which use the 12v rails - hence, why quality is an issue with PSU's.

IMO corsair/seasonic are unnecessary. No reason for that much power, and Antec's are better for under 500w. As for modular power supplies, those are just ridiculous, as well as ridiculously expensive. Up to you though, pretty sweet imo but not worth the price.

As for later on upgrades, just get the PSU you need, when you need it. They aren't that expensive in the scheme of things. If it really bothers you, just look up what 'possible' upgrades you'd ever need, calculate what power they need, and buy the PSU that matches. A 1200w PSu is ridiculous. Crossfire/SLI isn't that good anyways, compared to single card solutions of the same cost. You are looking at 120-160% increase in performance with that, with the average bost about 140% (read: not 2x). With a 500w PSU you'd never need to upgrade. Period.


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Customx3;12709861*
> Thank you!
> 
> And i plan to before i get the motherboard, i know i dont need anything really above like 500-600 watts but was looking at the Mushkin 1200w Joule, as for later upgrades i have planned... but am not sure yet, just an idea right now...


1200W seems a little to much.You need to get a PSU to load it in the 75%-100% to get the maximum efficiency ,50% the lowest.
I would get some Antec Signature ,Enermax ,Corsair ,Seasonic in the 650- 850W range (they are over 50 Ampers on the 12 V rail/s).
I don t think you would need more .


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Belial;12713166*
> I strongly recommend the Antec Earthwatts series for PSU's. The 380 should be all you need, I went with the 430 because I'm paranoid - even with a Fermi powerhungry GPU and quadcore like I got.
> 
> The wattage of a PSU is also somewhat misleading - what is really important is how much wattage is on the 12v 'rails'. On a high quality, modern, _dependable/reputable brand_ PSU, the majority of their wattage will be on the 12v rails. On crappy PSU's, you may have less than 50% of the power on the 12v rails, meaning a 500w PSU is more like a 200W psu. So be careful when you buy. You can do a search and look up something to the effect of "12v rail wattage psu" but the calculation is amperage x 12v1 + amperage x 12v2 (assuming there is a 2nd 12v rail). That's the number you need to keep in mind - then, simply google "extreme powercalc" and figure out how much wattage you need.
> 
> But all those technical details aside, currently the Earthwatts are the only budget PSU's that are 80+ rated (ie are more than 80% efficient, to be simple about it). There really is no reason to go above 400 watts unless you are doing _both_ SLI/Crossfire 2x GPU solutions and overclocking . Basically, your GPU and CPU are the real power drains, which use the 12v rails - hence, why quality is an issue with PSU's.
> 
> IMO corsair/seasonic are unnecessary. No reason for that much power, and Antec's are better for under 500w. As for modular power supplies, those are just ridiculous, as well as ridiculously expensive. Up to you though, pretty sweet imo but not worth the price.
> 
> As for later on upgrades, just get the PSU you need, when you need it. They aren't that expensive in the scheme of things. If it really bothers you, just look up what 'possible' upgrades you'd ever need, calculate what power they need, and buy the PSU that matches. A 1200w PSu is ridiculous. Crossfire/SLI isn't that good anyways, compared to single card solutions of the same cost. You are looking at 120-160% increase in performance with that, with the average bost about 140% (read: not 2x). With a 500w PSU you'd never need to upgrade. Period.


The CX430 missed 8+ cert by like .5%


----------



## Customx3

thanks but ive got something planned that will require extra power, but im not sure if its going ti happen so dont worry about that. but thanks for the recommendations! will look into them.


----------



## Belial

Quote:


> The CX430 missed 8+ cert by like .5%


Right. But the Antec didn't miss it, and maybe even way surpassed it - not to mention it's not just 80+ certified, it's bronze. I believe it's the only bronze at the lower wattages? And, it's cheaper.

CustomX3, most power calcs, like newegg's power calc, give inaccurate reads because they want you to buy more expensive. Extreme power calc is the best power calc I've ever seen, and if you actually calculate your power needs your self (take each component and add it up, or really just take the CPU+GPU) I'm sure you'll realize what your true power needs are.


----------



## Dromihetes

On the side note :
Antec ,doesnt make the power supply-es in their factory-es they just put a label on some Seasonic units or whatever they label.They just pick them for the market they want.
Corsair ,doesn t make power supplyes ,they just put a label on CWT or Seasonic uniits.
Chieftec doesnt make power supplyes ,Sirtec or Delta Electronics ,in best cases, make them.
Enermax is the only manufacturer to own the factoryes as well.

So Antec doesnt really control what is selling thats why they failed few years ago with capacitors on some units ,kabooming or bulging.So does Corsair.

The newer CX430 from Corsair are not rated 80% officially from my knowledge and they are not at the level of what 400CX or 450VX were.

Lower power supplyes under 500 wats tend to be treated with disrespect from serious manufacturers as the manufacturers tend to go for the value added units from the upper shelv.

So choosing a PSU from over 500+ W from a good manufacturer should help in getting proper quality and ratings.


----------



## Customx3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Belial;12719728*
> Right. But the Antec didn't miss it, and maybe even way surpassed it - not to mention it's not just 80+ certified, it's bronze. I believe it's the only bronze at the lower wattages? And, it's cheaper.
> 
> CustomX3, most power calcs, like newegg's power calc, give inaccurate reads because they want you to buy more expensive. Extreme power calc is the best power calc I've ever seen, and if you actually calculate your power needs your self (take each component and add it up, or really just take the CPU+GPU) I'm sure you'll realize what your true power needs are.


did not know that thanks!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes;12720621*
> On the side note :
> Antec ,doesnt make the power supply-es in their factory-es they just put a label on some Seasonic units or whatever they label.They just pick them for the market they want.
> Corsair ,doesn t make power supplyes ,they just put a label on CWT or Seasonic uniits.
> Chieftec doesnt make power supplyes ,Sirtec or Delta Electronics ,in best cases, make them.
> Enermax is the only manufacturer to own the factoryes as well.
> 
> So Antec doesnt really control what is selling thats why they failed few years ago with capacitors on some units ,kabooming or bulging.So does Corsair.
> 
> The newer CX430 from Corsair are not rated 80% officially from my knowledge and they are not at the level of what 400CX or 450VX were.
> 
> Lower power supplyes under 500 wats tend to be treated with disrespect from serious manufacturers as the manufacturers tend to go for the value added units from the upper shelv.
> 
> So choosing a PSU from over 500+ W from a good manufacturer should help in getting proper quality and ratings.


Definitely did not know that Thanks!


----------



## vinton13

Almighty then. It may have been asked already, but I'm too lazy to go through all those pages.

Mind linking me/ explaining what is "Low RDS"?
I'm naturally inquisitive.


----------



## xd_1771

See article in sig
Low RDS is basically a new type of MOSFET that is smaller and cooler running.


----------



## fabrizziop

Still no info on whether the M4A88TD-V EVO has Low RDS(on) MOSFETS?.

Either way, I think that board shouldn't have issues.


----------



## Customx3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


See article in sig
Low RDS is basically a new type of MOSFET that is smaller and cooler running.


And what does rds stand for?


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *fabrizziop*


Still no info on whether the M4A88TD-V EVO has Low RDS(on) MOSFETS?.

Either way, I think that board shouldn't have issues.


it should be fine.

More than likely it is low RDS(on), but sadly i do not have Xray vision, and i cannot see through the heatsink.


----------



## Customx3

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


but sadly i do not have Xray vision, and i cannot see through the heatsink.


Ah man! I was counting on you to be able to do that for us!!!


----------



## Archangelclk

Im planning to upgrade to either of these boards

Option 1 Gigabyte GA-770T-USB3 $83.65

Option 2 Gigabyte GA-870A-UD3 $99

They are within my price range, I like Gigabyte and I can pick it up locally. I am leaning to the 2nd one since it is 8+2.

The listing on the chart shows as below. I may or may not overclock as I am fine with the stock speed right now. However if I do overclock it will be only to about 3.3Ghz or something.

I am currently using a Coolit ECO Liquid Cooled CPU unit, with 2 exhaust fans at the top of case and 4 intake fans with plenty of airflow. I read the xd post on vrms but am still not too sure how to determine all the factors of the board as the one I have appears to have a bit of black squares yet it is considered crap.

Anyways thought I would make sure that the boards options below are good?

Option 1
(VRMs)4+1
Heatsinked/No
TDP support/125W
We recommend:/125W, OC w/cooling
Low RDS (on)?/Yes

Option 2
(VRMs)8+2*
Heatsinked/No
TDP support/125W
We recommend:/125W, OC w/cooling
Low RDS (on)?/Yes


----------



## Ctrl+Alt+Del

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


See article in sig
Low RDS is basically a new type of MOSFET that is smaller and cooler running.


*Low RDs is not a type of MOSFET.* saying that is like saying a high mpg car is a new type of car...wheen in fact it still has four wheels and an engine, the only difference is that it can go further on one gallon of gas compared to its lower mpg counterpart.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Customx3*


And what does rds stand for?



Quote:



Originally Posted by *vinton13*


Almighty then. It may have been asked already, but I'm too lazy to go through all those pages.

Mind linking me/ explaining what is "Low RDS"?
I'm naturally inquisitive.



RDs: static Drain-Source On-State resistance RDs(on)

RDs is a measurement taken on MOSFET's, it describes how high the operating voltages can be at and lower temperatures it can operate at. Low RDs is a condition of the drain-source resistance. These higher performing MOSFETs are commonly found in late model cars and trucks that have dual voltage rails (42V and 14V bus). They are extremely rugged(dependent on the manufacturing process of course) and thus are used in computer motherboards. They are cheap too, something like 1.99 or less depending on where and who makes them


----------



## Krusher33

Man... we're gonna learn so much from this thread we're going to make our own motherboards.


----------



## xd_1771

I would recommend adding MOSFET cooling to the 770T-USB3 before overclocking... at which point it'd end up costing the same as 870A-UD3 anyway. I recmomend you go for the 870A-UD3.

Updating the list with ASUS AM3+ board names! No details on VRM design though
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ctrl+Alt+Del;12741837*
> *Low RDs is not a type of MOSFET.* saying that is like saying a high mpg car is a new type of car...wheen in fact it still has four wheels and an engine, the only difference is that it can go further on one gallon of gas compared to its lower mpg counterpart.
> 
> RDs: static Drain-Source On-State resistance RDs(on)
> 
> RDs is a measurement taken on MOSFET's, it describes how high the operating voltages can be at and lower temperatures it can operate at. Low RDs is a condition of the drain-source resistance. These higher performing MOSFETs are commonly found in late model cars and trucks that have dual voltage rails (42V and 14V bus). They are extremely rugged(dependent on the manufacturing process of course) and thus are used in computer motherboards. They are cheap too, something like 1.99 or less depending on where and who makes them


What you say about low RDS seems very detailed and reliable, however the article I referred to for the majority of my VRM article did not describe low RDS like that... now where is that link...


----------



## xd_1771

EDIT: Wrong thread/double post, delete this


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ctrl+Alt+Del;12741837*
> 
> RDs: static Drain-Source On-State resistance RDs(on)
> 
> RDs is a measurement taken on MOSFET's, it describes how high the operating voltages can be at and lower temperatures it can operate at. Low RDs is a condition of the drain-source resistance. These higher performing MOSFETs are commonly found in late model cars and trucks that have dual voltage rails (42V and 14V bus). They are extremely rugged(dependent on the manufacturing process of course) and thus are used in computer motherboards. They are cheap too, something like 1.99 or less depending on where and who makes them


I m pretty sure that few pages ago i ve said almost the same thing









Except the things with the cars.









But anyway ,you can find good MOSFETS ,from reputable brands, at around 1 dollar with ok RDS On ,ok amperage even in continuos usage with included decoupling diode and 150 Celsius capability without going boom .And so should MSI.
Injecting Nikos junk on the market may be good for Taiwan PIB ,but not for myself









Personally i consider the article from the hardware secrets incomplete and wrong in some places ,but not beeing an engineer i can t supply proper arguments to counter it.

Anyway RDS-On is present in ANY field effect transistor (MOSFET).Maybe there is a confusion with the N-P-N and P-N-P transistors which don t have such a thing as RDS-On as they work differently ,when some people say there are MOSFETS without RDS-On characteristics.


----------



## Belial

Quote:



Man... we're gonna learn so much from this thread we're going to make our own motherboards.


lol, I'm beginning to the think the way that prebuilt PC builders like Dell, HP, especially Apple, and even custom build places are complete rip-off, sketchy *******s for just slapping together parts and stamping a name to sell to stupid people, is the same as motherboards (buy a PCB, buy some mosfets from another company, buy capacitors and NB/SD, etc).

The same as Dell doesn't really create a single part in a Dell computer, it seems to me motherboard companies don't really create a single part in the motherboard.


----------



## Ctrl+Alt+Del

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Belial*


lol, I'm beginning to the think the way that prebuilt PC builders like Dell, HP, especially Apple, and even custom build places are complete rip-off, sketchy *******s for just slapping together parts and stamping a name to sell to stupid people, is the same as motherboards (buy a PCB, buy some mosfets from another company, buy capacitors and NB/SD, etc).

The same as Dell doesn't really create a single part in a Dell computer, it seems to me motherboard companies don't really create a single part in the motherboard.


well that is the same for just about everything. Walmart sells things made in china, and those items are not or are rarely made by the company that puts their name on the box. It all boils down to the bottom dollar and because we are raising our kids in a "need the new thing" culture the big businesses keep that going with cheap electronics and the such.


----------



## reflex99

Even then, very few companies actually manufacture/assemble their own boards. I think MSI and Gigabyte are the only two that actually still do (I know for certain that Giga has their own factory, and MSIAlex, the msi rep on here, has said a few times that MSI manufactures their own stuff). I am almost certain that ASUS and eVGA both have their boards manufactured by Foxconn(i think, could be another manu.)


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;12762160*
> Even then, very few companies actually manufacture/assemble their own boards. I think MSI and Gigabyte are the only two that actually still do (I know for certain that Giga has their own factory, and MSIAlex, the msi rep on here, has said a few times that MSI manufactures their own stuff). I am almost certain that ASUS and eVGA both have their boards manufactured by Foxconn(i think, could be another manu.)


Take a look at the PCB-s MSI is using now.Even Gigabyte with the Killer board uses same PCB color (along Nikos),which i think is a marker of the fact that at least the PCB-s are made in some other place and not in their own factories.
Just an opinion of mine.

MSI problems is that with the elimination of red PCB-s concindentally also the quality has dropped.

All the black MSI mobos that i ve had died or had issues.Never had serious problems with the red ones.

I think they are going towards laptop and some other stuff in their factories.

2-3 years ago i ve red on some website ,that they (MSI) may retire from motherboard manufacturing , or maybe i remembering it wrong









So they may put the name and engineer them ,but manufacturing may take place somewhere else to get them cheaper.

I may be wrong of course.


----------



## reflex99

MSI intel boards kick ass. The AMD team, just needs to go take a look at what they are doing.

And doesn't the K9A2 plat. have a black pcb


----------



## dodger.blue

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


MSI intel boards kick ass. The AMD team, just needs to go take a look at what they are doing.


That is because there is more money to be made with Intel. AMD has a small market share even though their processors are a much better value. Somehow people are getting convinced that spending $1000 on a cpu to get a "whopping" 8-frames-per-second more is worth it. Nevermind that anything above 60fps is pointless, but who cares? (Then again, I did spend $600 on an oem Athlon X2 4400+ 939 when it was first released when I could have spent $200 less to get the 4200+ and the only difference was less L2 cache).

In any case, the real purpose for my replying to this thread was just to point out that the MSI 890FXA-GD65 is also AM3+ compatible, not to rant about poor consumerism.


----------



## Customx3

Yo ive got some money and am going to get an am3 board now probably the one i posted above, so whats some good ram to go with it? and when i unlock the cores i will probably have greater heat too!? right so i may need better cooling as mine ranges from 35c to 52c depending on temp in room.

But it will be worse with two extra cores going so what are some good coolers that will fit in the CoolerMaster Elite 310?


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;12765597*
> MSI intel boards kick ass. The AMD team, just needs to go take a look at what they are doing.
> 
> And doesn't the K9A2 plat. have a black pcb


It has , but it s my second one








The first one lasted almost 2 years ,this is the replacement.


----------



## allikat

Nothing wrong with a gigabyte MA770 board that a little mosfet cooling won't fix. I'm using one right now that used to run my unlocked 555BE at about 3.6-3.8Ghz. I didn't want to push it further because on 4+1 phases, even with some nice Ghetto mosfet cooling I didn't want it to burn. I just got an old GPU heatsink, my dremel and some thermal tape and rigged up some mini heatsinks. Worked fine. Board is now running a friend's AthlonII X4 630 entirely happily.
I've gone on to a Crosshair 3. I'm assuming from my reading of this (now huge) thread that my mosfets are not low RDS, which means they will work fine at all clocks and voltages, just be a bit warmer?


----------



## reflex99

are we talking about the MA770 or the CHIII?


----------



## xd_1771

Does anyone here have a link to prove NIKOS MOSFET 25C temperature rating?
Trying to prove something to another forum site


----------



## BadAssClocker

is this list going to hopefully updated to add the intel boards; really need to know which ones are best for each socket


----------



## reflex99

Intel boards are a whole different animal. I really don't think i have the time to go through all of them like we did for this one.

You have an SR2 though, so i really don't think it will concern you for another few years.


----------



## Jacka

Speaking of the K9A2 Platinum, it appears to have 5 phases, but what else can you tell from the following picture?


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jacka;12812002*
> Speaking of the K9A2 Platinum, it appears to have 5 phases, but what else can you tell from the following picture?


What are you asking exactly ?!
The MOSFET brand is ok.

And yes this board was (or looked) like a beast at it s arrival exactly as the 790FX-GD70 did.
Unfortunatelly X6 has arrived and MSI needs to reengineer the VRM on all future AMD boards.The new CPU-s will require also quality VRM-s.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12792049*
> Does anyone here have a link to prove NIKOS MOSFET 25C temperature rating?
> Trying to prove something to another forum site


I ve seen that on the TO-252 low voltage MOSFET page somewhere in the tables with the specs.But i m not sure i still see that anymore.
You don t need to proove anything ,the burned ones tell all the story








And the info on the niko-sem site may be useless


----------



## xd_1771

The K9A2 Platinum's MOSFETs are a cheap 3 transistor design. I'd say they're probably nearly as bad as the rest of MSI MOSFETs.


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12815170*
> I'd say they're probably nearly as bad as the rest of MSI MOSFETs.


Sorry i don t agree with you on this one.
You are comparing apples with oranges.You can t compare this mobo with the AM 3 AMD MSI mobos NOW on the market .

This board has been made/designed in 2007.The Infineon tranzistors (dated 2005) used in the final stage ,are well branded and have good characteristics and thermal disipation.They are in no way close to the Nikos crap.
CPU voltages are extremelly steady on it.
They are heasinked and this VRM with a 2007 MSI design is able to sustein 140W TDP CPU with Phenoms1/2.
As the X6 did not existed in 2007 you can t bash this board just because it is MSI.

The VRM area is extremelly cool if the heasink is properly installed from the factory.

On newegg this board had ok reviews.

The VRM design is almost identical to a Gigabyte 770-UD3 ,which is able to sustein a 140W TDP CPU-s or an unlocked 95W just well enough.

Practically what i understand is that you are saying that Nikos mosfets are good (because they work on Biostar ) and MSI mobos are crap because they are crap .

My opinion is that actual MSI AMD mobos are crappy due to the MOSFET transistors used mostly and i ll mentain this belive untill i see MSI mobos (rated 140W) without Nikos blowing up with X4 AMD CPU-s.

Regarding the design for X6 and future CPU-s we will see this year what MSI is doing as they seem to be slower in development on the AMD platform.

I repeat ,i do belive X6 cpu-s do need a more than 4+1 design ,i agree 100% with you on this one.
But for the X4 CPU-s ,some properly made 4+1 VRM-s should be ok with the condition of using proper semiconductors ,conditon not respected by MSI for their low end and middle range mobos.
That VRM design is ok for a 2007 mobo ,fair and square.

PS:When my K9A2 Platinum mobo died (i had version 2 at that time ,in the sig is a v1 replacement ,with a wider revised circu-pipe vrm heatsink) it died after one year and a half of FSB at 250 Mhz with a X2 6400+ .I don t think i ve used more than 4 months stock clocks on it.I don t blame MSI for it s death as i forced it.
A X2 6400+ heats up like Hell draws quite a good amount of ampers ,maybe even more than a 1090T.


----------



## xd_1771

Ah, they're INFINEON. Couldn't see that in the image. Sounds good, will be listing it down. However, it is still a cheap 3-transistor design and we haven't many details about the PWM controller... that might've blown it for you


----------



## BWG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kz26;12462845*
> Here's some info for the Gigabyte MA785GM-US2H.
> 
> Phases: 4+1
> Heatsinked: No
> CPU TDP: 140W
> CPU power plug: 8-pin
> Compatible heatsinks: MOS-C1


So what kind of cpu core unlocking and oc would you reccomend with this board and the X2 Pheonom II 555 BE?

Just replacing this 7750 BE.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12815170*
> The K9A2 Platinum's MOSFETs are a cheap 3 transistor design. I'd say they're probably nearly as bad as the rest of MSI MOSFETs.


I would have to disagree too.

K9A2 plat is like one of the best AM2+ boards ever. Never seen/heard of any reoccuring problems with them


----------



## Krusher33

IMO if it's just 4+1 but company says max 140W TDP, then max at 140W. I blows before then, then you'd have a case against mobo company because it does say max 140W.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krusher33;12823914*
> IMO if it's just 4+1 but company says max 140W TDP, then max at 140W. I blows before then, then you'd have a case against mobo company because it does say max 140W.


most boards that claim 140W TDP, will do that.

With the processor at stock speed, using the stock cooler

(stock cooler blows air down over the mosfet area, which makes them run cooler)


----------



## Krusher33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;12824079*
> most boards that claim 140W TDP, will do that.
> 
> With the processor at stock speed, using the stock cooler
> 
> (stock cooler blows air down over the mosfet area, which makes them run cooler)


Right, but if the VRMS are better quality or 8+1 or something, then I wouldn't concern with the 140W max.

But in this case, I wouldn't overclock a 125W chip over 140W for fear of the board crapping out.


----------



## BWG

You 2 going back and forth was enough to answer my question lol. 125 on a 125 means I am going to be abusing it a bit when oc.


----------



## AgentHydra

Any ideas about the Jetway HZ03 series? Kind of an obscure brand but I'm all for trying out new stuff. Looking around for a good cheap AM3 mATX board that has some OC headroom.


----------



## reflex99

4+1

the heatsink is promising.

Unlikey that they are lowRDS(on)

Probably a fine board, but I hear that Jetway has a high DOA rate


----------



## xd_1771

I don't believe jetway is known for good quality
They really don't make that many good sales anymore, likely meaning they have to cheap out on the majority of parts
Still the MOSFET heatsink does seem to have its place there...


----------



## reflex99

Jetway also used to make almost all of Sapphire's boards, which were usually pretty good.


----------



## xd_1771

ASRock's high end boards have now been relisted as "125W, OC w/caution" and lower end boards re-listed as such.

Reason: This

I just knew ASRock's cheapness would bite someone hard in the rear someday, but this is an 8+2 phase VRM failure... the first ever recorded


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


ASRock's high end boards have now been relisted as "125W, OC w/caution" and lower end boards re-listed as such.

Reason: This

I just knew ASRock's cheapness would bite someone hard in the rear someday, but this is an 8+2 phase VRM failure... the first ever recorded


This means that quality of the VRM should be the first to be had in mind and not necesarelly the number of phases.

It s very easy for this Asrock style brands to start trow at users 8+2 or 20+10 numbers to make them deasy (or diesy)







.

Semiconductors used should be the first elements to be looked at ,because they reflect usually the quality of the VRM.

You can t transform crap into gold no matter the alchemy procedure used.

LE:And look at the nice shiny heatsink ,useless though.
I really have the need to see what semiconductors are under it


----------



## xd_1771

Perhaps indeed, this was pretty much at its limits pushing an x6 at 1.5V.... other uses would probably be fine
It might be a loose MOSFET heatsink though (we still don't know that), if it was loose we may have nothing to blame - loose MOSFEt heatsink is worse than none at all


----------



## reflex99

God, how many times do I have to say it...

1 failure is not a trend.

If you looked at that 3dmark01 record I posted, it was supporting a 6ghz x6 through a 5+ min. Bench.

If that isn't good, idk what is.


----------



## BWG

xd 1771, he makes a good point, but I really appreciate you watching for potential issues and keeping everyone aware. Sure, 1 issue is minimal, but it is a cause for concern. What we don't know on a lot of these issues is whether the user is doing things that are not smart in the first place.

If I pump 1.5v into my X4 today and don't say anything, there surely is going to be some very high stress on my power components. Then later, when my board fries at 1.4v, I may not say, "I uh pushed 1.5v through it 2 weeks ago."

You may be the guy that spoils the fun sometimes, but I know you just don't wanna see us frying parts and losing money. Your research is very appreciated.


----------



## xd_1771

*Bump*
This needs another decent boost, perhaps an update esp. in the AM2+ section. However at the moment I have a few of my own projects kicking - including a new Google table for the VRM horror stories list with more info, and a new "List of AMD unlockable CPUs" (because there's a whole bunch of models you don't even know about)


----------



## reflex99

yea, I am extremely busy ATM, but once my life calms down a bit, i will get around the the AM2 list.

And to go along with that, i am getting an am2+ board. Foxconn destroyer


----------



## BWG

I heard a good oldie on the radio today...

Burnin down the house... lol


----------



## cloudbyday

So there are no mATX that has more than a 4+1 power phase?


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloudbyday;12905240*
> So there are no mATX that has more than a 4+1 power phase?


not right now, no.


----------



## cloudbyday

Interesting... what about Intel?


----------



## reflex99

With intel, there are many more quality uATX boards.


----------



## terence52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12841607*
> ASRock's high end boards have now been relisted as "125W, OC w/caution" and lower end boards re-listed as such.
> 
> Reason: This
> 
> I just knew ASRock's cheapness would bite someone hard in the rear someday, but this is an 8+2 phase VRM failure... the first ever recorded


great. same with asus as well. i already got part of my vrm failing to provide stable voltage on my previous m4a89gtd pro. voltage fluctuation was 0.15v @ stock.. best of all the distro at my side claimed it was FREAKING NORMAL?!. since then. gigabyte would be far better.


----------



## xd_1771

Have you tried tweaking the LLC value on yours? That might be it...
Also vDroop doesn't necessarily always point to the actual VRMs or MOSFETs


----------



## terence52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12920021*
> Have you tried tweaking the LLC value on yours? That might be it...
> Also vDroop doesn't necessarily always point to the actual VRMs or MOSFETs


no option for me to tweak thou. its just on and off on the gtd pro.
it may not be but clearly my temps fluctuating with my voltage isnt great. and just surfing the net? come on man.. anyway. giga ftw. lol/


----------



## Krusher33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *terence52;12944273*
> no option for me to tweak thou. its just on and off on the gtd pro.
> it may not be but clearly my temps fluctuating with my voltage isnt great. and just surfing the net? come on man.. anyway. giga ftw. lol/


Sometimes when you turn it on, more options becomes visible. Have you tried it?


----------



## Mitche01

Cant read the Spreadsheet from works PCs as it blocks Google Spreadsheets.

So If this info is already there - i am sorry!

ASUS M4N82 Deluxe
Socket AM2+, DDR2, Nvidia 980a chipset
Power Phase 8+1
8 pin EPS but 4 pins have a cap so arnet used
Supports 140W CPUs


----------



## Problame

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloudbyday;12905240*
> So there are no mATX that has more than a 4+1 power phase?


Correct me if I'm wrong but, aren't there boards with 4+1+2 independant memory phases?


----------



## xd_1771

The memory VRMs get power from the 24-pin connector, not the 4-pin/8-pin CPU power connector
Memory consumes little power anyway so it doesn't matter as much


----------



## Kvjavs

So would the MSI 890FXA-GD65 be "safe" to use with an x6 processor and OC? I'm considering on picking one up since it's the only 890FX board that has a layout I like.


----------



## reflex99

It has a VASTLY improved VRM design over the GD70.

So far though, it hasn't been proven. There is one member here on OCN who has one, pretty sure he had an X6 overclocked pretty high.


----------



## terence52

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Krusher33*


Sometimes when you turn it on, more options becomes visible. Have you tried it?


its on all the way :S. without it.
its boots @ 0.05v lower then what i set at idle
goes down even lower when priming.


----------



## xd_1771

The AM3+ ASRock Deluxe5 uses a DrMOS system similar to the 890FXA-GD65. Apparently Driver MOSFETs are more fragile, and Phaedrus suggests that you use a good power supply with that board.


----------



## gevans

Hello All
I'm new to the boards have not OC the new rig yet not till i get a new cooler for it
still has stock cooler but have been reading the forums trying to get so info be for
i try anyways hit this one up and not sure if i should now with my board it is a
Gigabyte GA-890GPA-UD3H


----------



## reflex99

I suggest that you make a thread in the Air Cooling forum. They could probaby give you much better advice.

http://www.overclock.net/air-cooling/

EDIT: 5k posts


----------



## BWG

Tell me when a good AM3+ hits and I will be on it! I want to take this over 4.5GHz already!


----------



## xd_1771

I've modified the list to be more friendly to ASUS boards, since they all seem to feature over current protection techniques that make it safe (though impractical) to run 125W processors even on their 3+1 boards. There is a new column called "VRM Protection?" that will now be added to all sections and confirmed where possible. On the other hand based on our observations MSI boards don't seem to have this protection, causing at least some of the failures. I'm going to be adding a section on OCP to my main "About VRMs" article soon as well.


----------



## kyuubi654

Not sure if you're still looking for boards to add to the list but here's mine









GA-M57SLI-S4 (rev 2.0)
AM2/AM2+/AM3
Phase count: 3+1
Heatsinked: No
TDP Support: 125W on AM2 / 95W on AM2+ (only exception of 125W is the Phenom X4 9750) / 95W on AM3 (no 125W support whatsoever)
Low RDS: No idea
Transistor info: No idea
CPU Power plug: 4-pin
Form factor: ATX

Quite old isn't it?









P.S.: The AM2/AM2+ MB GA-MA770-UD3/US3 has a wrong form factor written down(the CPU powerplug appears twice).


----------



## fg2chase

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kvjavs;12971285*
> So would the MSI 890FXA-GD65 be "safe" to use with an x6 processor and OC? I'm considering on picking one up since it's the only 890FX board that has a layout I like.


Yes, I have this board and have succesfully OCed my 1090T to 4.0Ghz, been running a month straight no problem.


----------



## xd_1771

On AM2 it would use 4 phases for the CPU instead of having to split it into 3+1 due to no split phase required/supported, I can see why AM2 would support 125W but AM2+ would not


----------



## rockasaur

Thanks for the great list.

1) How can I contribute?
2) My motherboard[Gigabyte GA-770TA-UD3] is true 8+2 or 4 channels?


----------



## xd_1771

It is an 8+2 with split inductor design (4+1 true channels) but that is still of very good quality.
There is a submission form you can use to submit boards, linked in the thread. I believe we already have yours though.


----------



## terence52

Hmm,. xdd. you might wanna edit the list. i have just gotten the msi 785g-e53
it is a 4+1 phrase design. 4 mosfets per channel with 1 driver, should handle some oc fine from the looks of it.


----------



## xd_1771

MSI boards are known to have their MOSFETs blow despite having heatsinks on
Be wary with that unlock... in case of MOSFET overload the board doesn't have any over current protections either

Also, I've taken a second look and it does look more like a 4+1 than 3+1, I'll update it


----------



## terence52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;13062036*
> MSI boards are known to have their MOSFETs blow despite having heatsinks on
> Be wary with that unlock... in case of MOSFET overload the board doesn't have any over current protections either
> 
> Also, I've taken a second look and it does look more like a 4+1 than 3+1, I'll update it


i just got it yesterday. the backplate cant fit my rasa. and i hope it lasts.. lol.
btw, is thermal paste on mosfets ok?


----------



## xd_1771

I'd say make sure it's non-conductive


----------



## terence52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;13067515*
> I'd say make sure it's non-conductive


yup. am using mx4, shouldnt be an issue.
thanks


----------



## terence52

i have uploaded 2 pics of my 785g-e53. lol
think i didnt see wrongly. there are 4 mosfet and one driver. hmm


----------



## xd_1771

Can you get some shots of the back of the board? Looking at the traces will prove, once and for all, 3+1 phase or 4+1 phase

Also, MSI actually using a MOSFET driver? That's a rare thing. The 4 MOSFETs might be a better thing for splitting up the power, but I'm not sure.
Are there any markings on the board to indicate that those are NIKOS MOSFETs or are they other?


----------



## reflex99

I'm gonna guess that this is the same vrm design as the NF750-G55, which is actually pretty good.


----------



## terence52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;13073314*
> Can you get some shots of the back of the board? Looking at the traces will prove, once and for all, 3+1 phase or 4+1 phase
> 
> Also, MSI actually using a MOSFET driver? That's a rare thing. The 4 MOSFETs might be a better thing for splitting up the power, but I'm not sure.
> Are there any markings on the board to indicate that those are NIKOS MOSFETs or are they other?


yup i could but i will leave that for later as i have sch







.


----------



## razr m3

I've got a ASUS M4A77TD Pro (gotta love that diarrhea colored PCB







) and it's got a phase count of 8+1, unheatsinked. What would you say is a safe voltage I could safely push through them without fear of killing them?


Spoiler: Which of these is the MOSFETs? I want to get some heatsinks but I don't know where I'd put them :p I'm thinking 2, but that's really just a guess.


----------



## terence52

ok took the pics : sorry for the blurness of the photos. my cam is bad


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *razr m3;13077335*
> I've got a ASUS M4A77TD Pro (gotta love that diarrhea colored PCB
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and it's got a phase count of 8+1, unheatsinked. What would you say is a safe voltage I could safely push through them without fear of killing them?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Which of these is the MOSFETs? I want to get some heatsinks but I don't know where I'd put them :p I'm thinking 2, but that's really just a guess.


for the most part 2.

If you want to go nuts, you can heatsink 1 as well though

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *terence52;13081816*
> ok took the pics : sorry for the blurness of the photos. my cam is bad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [IMgG]http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i434/Terence52/DSCI0183.jpg[/IMG]
> [IMgG]http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i434/Terence52/DSCI0184.jpg[/IMG]
> [IMGg]http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i434/Terence52/DSCI0185.jpg[/IMG]


i only see 4 chokes, which typically indicates 3+1


----------



## terence52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;13081835*
> for the most part 2.
> 
> If you want to go nuts, you can heatsink 1 as well though
> 
> i only see 4 chokes, which typically indicates 3+1


hmm. i can see 2 more right at the edge of the board. i doubt both are for the 4 pin


----------



## razr m3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;13081835*
> for the most part 2.
> 
> If you want to go nuts, you can heatsink 1 as well though


Would something like this or this work?


----------



## Dromihetes

terence52 if those mosfets are Nikos they will fail no matter you heatsink them.

By the way i ve finally took a look at how much would cost me to replace all the VRM Mosfets on the MSI 790XT-G45
I have found available in my country at farnell ,2 Infineon Mosfet samples ,able to cope in the MSI schematics by electrical characteristics.
One of them has identical characteristics to the ones used on the K9A2 Platinum and another one is a beautifull continuous 70 Amps at 100 Celsius and excelent thermal disipation.This baby would never die no matter what you do to it









http://ro.farnell.com/infineon/ipd060n03l-g/mosfet-n-ch-50a-30v-pg-to252-3/dp/1775575

http://ro.farnell.com/infineon/ipd053n08n3-g/mosfet-n-ch-90a-80v-pg-to252-3/dp/1775574

After making a little math i can say it s not smart to replace them via buying brand new MOSFETS.
I would need to get 15 pieces.If i get the "cheap" ones ,used on the Platinum ,i would need to pay half of the value the mobo has now at RMA.If i get the good ones ,rated at 100 Celsius , i practically pay the mobo value just to get them.








So buying the right mobo from the first place is the way to go.

MSI saved using this crap Nikos A LOT of money per fabrication .


----------



## Davidsen

I'm thinking of getting this one for my next upgrade: GIGABYTE GA-870A-USB3 (rev. 3.1)
http://www.shg.dk/Bundkort/GIGABYTE-GA-870A-USB3-%28rev.-3.1%29-bundkort-ATX-2253756.html

Which happens to have AM3+ support and 4+1 phase design. Should i worry about the power design if im planning on upgrading to a Zambezi and OC'ing?


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *razr m3;13083927*
> Would something like this or this work?


The first ones are made for VRM's, and the second are made for memory chips.

The first ones will probably fit easier.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Davidsen;13084862*
> I'm thinking of getting this one for my next upgrade: GIGABYTE GA-870A-USB3 (rev. 3.1)
> http://www.shg.dk/Bundkort/GIGABYTE-GA-870A-USB3-%28rev.-3.1%29-bundkort-ATX-2253756.html
> 
> Which happens to have AM3+ support and 4+1 phase design. Should i worry about the power design if im planning on upgrading to a Zambezi and OC'ing?


I don't have much info on that board, as like nobody has one. But, looking at it, I see that it uses lowRDS(on) mosfets, and they are in a 2+2 configuration. Judging by similar gigabyte boards, i would say it is relatively high quality.

Now, since i don't know how BD will use power, i cannot say if it will be anygood for overclocking, but for current AM3 CPUs, it should be decent, especially if you put some heatsinks on the mosfets.


----------



## razr m3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;13086133*
> The first ones are made for VRM's, and the second are made for memory chips.
> 
> The first ones will probably fit easier.


Alright, thank you









Also, any idea how much voltage I could safely pump through them without heatsinks and how much with? I would like to get my Phenom a higher overclock since I only need ~1.475 for 4GHz.


----------



## reflex99

With heatsinks I would say pretty much any thing less than 1.6 would be fine.


----------



## xd_1771

The 870A-USB3 is a quality 4+1 phase design similar to other new Gigabyte boards. Throw heatsinks on it if running high TDP [125W+] processors + OC and you'll be set

That MSI 785G board posted earlier is definitely a 3+1 design looking at the back


----------



## BWG

XD... so you remember when I ordered those heatsinks for my mosfets?

I screwed up on Amazon. I changed my address, but I did not change the address on the card I used to pay. So, they shipped them, they hit my forwarding request, and it expired, so they are back in cali.

Been like 2 weeks and I am back to square 1. lol

See any more AM3+ boards?


----------



## xd_1771

Ruh oh..... yeah a change of address prevented me from successfully ordering from Newegg.ca one time.... I prioritize ordering at NCIX over anything else now

Not much more AM3+ boards yet though MSI has announced BIOS-compatibility on their AM3 boards


----------



## xd_1771

Now that I'm clear of my big project I'll be getting back to this soon


----------



## Davidsen

Not wanting to create a new thread, i'll just ask my question here:

Im still not exactly sure if im going to buy, but kind of planning ahead.

Considering to buy the Gigabyte GA-870A-UD3 (rev. 2.0), does it matter if i buy CL9 or CL7 RAMs?


----------



## xd_1771

Depends on the speed & the price... there have been CL7 kits for same price as CL9 kits lately


----------



## Davidsen

These: Kingston HyperX 4GB DDR3 1333MHz Costs around 60$

About the only CL7 rams i could find.


----------



## xd_1771

Unless 1600Mhz... not really worth it
1600 CL9 for cheaper can match 1333 CL7
In fact there are even 1600 CL7 kits for same price or lower than that Kinsgton one. Look for G.Skill Ripjaws X DDR3 1600 CL7-8-7 for $50 after promo


----------



## Davidsen

Found Corsair XMS3 1600 CL7, priced @70$.

But would they work with a motherboard that specifies only to work with up to PC10600(1333MHz)?


----------



## BWG

Maybe. What board? If it is your M4A78, it says it only supports 1200 and that is OC. You might get much lower timings out of them since you are downclocking.


----------



## Davidsen

Board is GIGABYTE GA-870A-UD3 (rev. 2.0)

Specs says that it only supports up to 1333MHz rams.

Would it work with 1600MHz rams?


----------



## BWG

Yes, and it will run them at 1600.

EDIT: May even run higher than 1600. I don't know why AMD keeps saying 1333 on everything!


----------



## Davidsen

Alrighty, i'll try buying higher frequency cheap ram(along with the 1600MHz ones), and see if it works. Say 2000MHz?

EDIT: Can only find single ram kits upto 1800MHz, so will have to do.


----------



## BWG

I had a kit of XM3's for my Sandy Bridge machine. They were ok. G.Skill has a better kit than those XM3's. Look at mine and XD's. I picked mine up for about the same price. Look at my timings. I got the frequency up to about 1700, but have not tried anything more.

EDIT: ECO costs more and that is what he has, but we have the same timings.


----------



## Davidsen

Would be awesome to get, but the retailer i buy from doesn't sell G.Skill rams for some reason.


----------



## xd_1771

I realized you are in Greenland.
As I said get what's best for price

AMD motherboards support 1600Mhz via the (often undocumented) 8x multiplier, only past 1600 will you have to OC bus clock. On a C2 rev processor (assuming yours as with most 550 is C2) do not use more than 2 DIMMs or otherwise you'll be limited in RAM speed


----------



## BWG

When I clocked mine up to 1700 I had worse benchmark results than at 1600. I kept my HT at 2000 though and when I raised my bus speed the HT went up with it. Do you think that is why?

Should I lower my HT before I bump my bus so it does not take my HT over 2000?


----------



## 1337gpuz

Hey

Im looking to do some overclocking on my Phenom II X4 965 and was wondering if a M4A88TD-V EVO/USB3 mobo would be good and without having to worry my MOSFETS/VRM will blow up ?


----------



## xd_1771

BWG: Possibly simple RAM instability.
1337gpuz: Very good quality heatsinked 8+2, I see no reason to worry


----------



## selfsurf

If I unlock an X2 560 to an X4 B60 lightly oc it to 3.5ghz will my motherboard be able to handle it? Mind you I have put some copper on the vrms using these:


----------



## BWG

That is all going to help, but in the end, you are going to upgrade the board. I went down this road with a cheap 4+1. You might be ok with a light oc.

I could hear high pitched whinning noises coming from my socket or heatsinked mosfets after about 3 weeks. I went ahead and upgraded.


----------



## fabrizziop

M4A88TD-V EVO/USB3 has NIKOS MOSFETS!. Add it on the list, I'm uploading pictures(need to cut and resize) as soon as I have time.


----------



## reflex99

Probably still fairly high quality...


----------



## xd_1771

Bump
Looks like ASUS' 990X is going to be a 6+2 just like the M4A89TD!

I will continue updating with Am3+ mobo entries as they come out


----------



## xd_1771

This list will continue to be updated as more AM3+ boards are announced. ASUS just announced their 900 series lineup and they did provide VRM info, that has been listed!


----------



## pioneerisloud

If you guys PROMISE you'll keep that list updated and NON BIASED (looks at one of you two







) then this thread has the pio seal of approval.









Thread stickied.


----------



## reflex99

because no one in this thread with a green name is ever biased


----------



## xd_1771

Epic success rave?
Rest assured we base what we think about boards on what we see and what we know


----------



## raisethe3

Nice to see it being stickied.


----------



## AgentHydra

yay finally stickied









I was getting tired of searching for it lol


----------



## fabrizziop

Proof of M4A88TD-V EVO/USB3 Nikos MOSFETS.


----------



## reflex99

Cool?

Doesn't really prove that they are bad.


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


Cool?

Doesn't really prove that they are bad.


Yes indeed ,but when you see Nikos in the VRM area you should take caution ,even if they are heatsinked.

Simply put Nikos mosfets are a marker of the CPU VRM quality ,at least in my opinion.

As for the ones that power fans or whatever auxiliar mobo functions ,they should work thoretically just fine (like any other no name POS as long as they don t overheat).


----------



## fabrizziop

I think they won't harm anyone in this mobo, as it's 8+2 and load is split between a lot of mosfets.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dromihetes*


Yes indeed ,but when you see Nikos in the VRM area you should take caution ,even if they are heatsinked.

Simply put Nikos mosfets are a marker of the CPU VRM quality ,at least in my opinion.

As for the ones that power fans or whatever auxiliar mobo functions ,they should work thoretically just fine (like any other no name POS as long as they don t overheat).


What if nikos has more than 1 product, and the ones that Msi have used came from a bad run/product? (They might not, I havent researched it that much)

That is like saying that toyota is a bad company because the original prius was a bad car. But as we all know, toyota is not bad at all.


----------



## xd_1771

Remember ASUS boards all-around usually feature anti-VRM-blowup features such as OCP and of course that VRM heatsink








I don't believe MSI does that at all


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;13434310*
> What if nikos has more than 1 product, and the ones that Msi have used came from a bad run/product? (They might not, I havent researched it that much)
> 
> That is like saying that toyota is a bad company because the original prius was a bad car. But as we all know, toyota is not bad at all.


Go on nikosem site and find me some good MOSFETS for TO 252 ,you wont find some by looking at the RDS On values ,as they are unable to deliver RDS On to the levels other makers do.

Then go on any other site Infineon ,NEC/Renesas ,National and so on ,you will find much better ones ,but more expensive.

You will see that Nikos portofolio of good ,high amperage at 100 Celsius + good disipation MOSFETS ,for that capsule(TO 252) , is close to NULL ,so practically any Nikos MOSFET you would install does not meet the requirements for a proper cheap CPU VRM.

They simply don t make proper MOSFETS for high power applications ,whats to be said more.
Maybe to use safelly a Nikos MOSFET ,in a high amperage aplication you would need to use the MOSFETS with a different encapsulation and a big heatsink ,thing that can t be done on a motherboard.

This Nikos MOSFETS also lack an integrated protection diode (connected between D and S on the mosfet) that you can see on Infineon or NEC mosfets.

I don t think they will start makeing good semiconductors instantly ,as a semiconductor vendor needs years to become what some are now.

I have nothing against Nikos as brand ,but mobo manufacturers should use this MOSFETS where they can do the job for real.Pushing them in the CPU VRM area doesn t help no one.

Practically any user that sees Nikos MOSFETS at work should be aware of the fact that the mobo has a higher risk of failing than a motherboard with something like Infineon or Renesas.


----------



## xd_1771

I've got an A785GE with 3+1 phase w/NIKOS MOSFET powering an Athlon II x4 that worries me. However, it did survive 1 month in 40C ambient temps. It's surviving [email protected] right now. I do run the stock cooler on the Athlon II x4 as well as positive-pressure the case to enable more cool airflow coming in. Perhaps NIKOS isn't very bad after all; I wouldn't expect them to always be failing right away. This PC has not seen heavy use. In addition, this board is going to be replaced early, I'm making plans to claim an ASUS M4A785-M or similar from OCN marketplace while this A785GE gets paired with an Athlon 2650e (with ridiculously low 15W TDP) for an HTPC


----------



## BWG

That Athlon 2650e might freeze those VRM's with that low TDP! Overclock everything else to prevent feezer burn









I am bringing the comedy!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


I've got an A785GE with 3+1 phase w/NIKOS MOSFET powering an Athlon II x4 that worries me. However, it did survive 1 month in 40C ambient temps. It's surviving [email protected] right now. I do run the stock cooler on the Athlon II x4 as well as positive-pressure the case to enable more cool airflow coming in. Perhaps NIKOS isn't very bad after all; I wouldn't expect them to always be failing right away. This PC has not seen heavy use. In addition, this board is going to be replaced early, I'm making plans to claim an ASUS M4A785-M or similar from OCN marketplace while this A785GE gets paired with an Athlon 2650e (with ridiculously low 15W TDP) for an HTPC


----------



## Krusher33

I have a M4A785-M and a M4A785TD-V Evo. Both have been nice to me.


----------



## Dromihetes

The MSI-s that died with Nikos burned out were used with CPU-s that had 95 W TDP or more.A new Athlon may simply be under that.A use of a 80W TDP CPU might be considered somehow safe i think ,judging by the user reports ,but we don t know for how much time.And the CnQ feature migh help as well in keeping them cold.


----------



## Krusher33

Currently on my sig rig I have it unlocked and HWMonitor reports 130 watts. No problem thus far. Been that way for months now.


----------



## BWG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Krusher33*


Currently on my sig rig I have it unlocked and HWMonitor reports 130 watts. No problem thus far. Been that way for months now.


HW Monitor only shows the TDP of the CPU at stock. It will not show the TDP live and overclocked.


----------



## matroska

For what it's worth, CPU-Z states that my 1090T as a 130W CPU, HWMonitor states 141W while at stock and 6W when OCed. Many sites state.through the model number on the CPU, that this is a 95W CPU, including cpu-world.com, wich i always believed to have accurate info...


----------



## Dromihetes

CPU-Z is not perfect ,somehow like Hardware Monitor shows sensor readings








There is bogus info in CPU-Z ,like the TDP thing.

Who has a Gigabyte motherboard can use the Easy blabla (Saver or whatever is called) and look at the power the CPU draws.That should indicate better the real TDP.
My 720 BE is shown to take not more than ~70W in load picks and it s rated at a 95W TDP maximum by AMD.
So reality may be different in many cases.


----------



## reflex99

At stock, CPU will never reach their tdp. The TDp is the absolute max, so coming close to it would indicate a flawed chip, because it could go out of spec.

Most 95w chips will use like 60-70w at load.


----------



## BWG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dromihetes*


CPU-Z is not perfect ,somehow like Hardware Monitor shows sensor readings








There is bogus info in CPU-Z ,like the TDP thing.

Who has a Gigabyte motherboard can use the Easy blabla (Saver or whatever is called) and look at the power the CPU draws.That should indicate better the real TDP.
My 720 BE is shown to take not more than ~70W in load picks and it s rated at a 95W TDP maximum by AMD.
So reality may be different in many cases.


That's pretty interesting, tell me more. LOL!


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BWG*


That's pretty interesting, tell me more. LOL!










About what ?!


----------



## xd_1771

Hope y'all like the new name
(First act as your green-texted saviour







)

I figure it's needed to make the intention of this thread a bit more clear to people on here


----------



## reflex99

HOLY WHAT THE BALLS

who made this guy a mod.....

out of my titles >.>


----------



## xd_1771

Chuck Norris








i'd like to point out that even MSI's 8+2 may be not very good to use... just confirmed it from Tator Tot, he has blown both of the new MSI 8+2 boards on x4 965 4.4Ghz 1.45V. I will list it down as "OC with caution"

It appears they have even more serious work to do, since it seems more phases/channels isn't helping


----------



## reflex99

.....

that was on the fusion.

HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO TELL YOU.

1 failure does NOT a trend make.


----------



## xd_1771

I am aware of that; however, this is *two* failures, on new boards of similar design, on a company known for VRM problems that are not just limited to amount of phases but may be widespread over the entire system of VRMs (a VRM system is only as strong as the weakest component)


----------



## reflex99

We also have a guy with a nice 4Ghz overclock on an X6 with a healthy amount of volts.

what now?


----------



## SwishaMane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;13435881*
> Remember ASUS boards all-around usually feature anti-VRM-blowup features such as OCP and of course that VRM heatsink
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe MSI does that at all


And thats sad too, cause if they just spend the extra $1 on a self adhesive heatsink with something other then chewing gum thermal paste, they could avoid costly RMA's... more


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;13483664*
> Chuck Norris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'd like to point out that even MSI's 8+2 may be not very good to use... just confirmed it from Tator Tot, he has blown both of the new MSI 8+2 boards on x4 965 4.4Ghz 1.45V. I will list it down as "OC with caution"
> 
> It appears they have even more serious work to do, since it seems more phases/channels isn't helping


So what is used in there.Nikos or ... ????
Tell me quick as i m dieing to find out








Any Nikos chip around the area ,those with more pins ?


----------



## reflex99

Driver mosfets


----------



## xd_1771

DrMOS. They're not as fragile as the NIKOS MOSFETs I think but they're still rather fragile in nature. You'd expect it to be an improvement but not much, a lot of DrMOS boards also fail (as a trend), so there appears to be more things wrong elsewhere.


----------



## Dromihetes

There is indeed something wrong with the MSI mobos.
I m starting to think that along the quality of some semiconductors they use ,there is also a flaw in the VRM design.
Someone (some engineer) is using some wrong values for some auxiliar components or they removed some of them to cut costs.

Dr MOS is a nice concept , i see they are used for various power output and combined should sufice.
Dr MOS should of had a nice metal plate on the side up for proper heatsinking , to bad that the incapsulation is made idiotic (to make the chip cheaper i presume).

Phone them xd_1771 and tell them they need to replace the AMD mobo engineering team because they fail in making a motherboard that works safelly


----------



## reflex99

The gd70s are fine.

X6 just doesn't jell with them for some reason.


----------



## Dromihetes

I want more from MSI ,reflex99







.
The top dog mobos should of been immortal for the money you spend on them.

From the feedback forms they had last years via the MSI forums they only implemented the packing thing ,which is also bad ,some boards suffer different shocks due to the packing.


----------



## reflex99

I just acquired like $500

I want to do an experiment. I'm gonna buy a gd70, a deneb x4, and throw it under some dry ice to see if I can kill it.

I am 99% sure that it isn't because of low quality, but rather that the design was not updated for thuban.


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


I just acquired like $500

I want to do an experiment. I'm gonna buy a gd70, a deneb x4, and throw it under some dry ice to see if I can kill it.

I am 99% sure that it isn't because of low quality, but rather that the design was not updated for thuban.


Keep us up to date no matter what happens.








I hope they update the design before AMD starts making only 8x CPU -s


----------



## reflex99

It really isn't 8 cores though.

4 modules with 2 threads each.

And yea, if I have some cash left, I might get a thuban, and see how fast it dies.


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


It really isn't 8 cores though.

4 modules with 2 threads each.

And yea, if I have some cash left, I might get a thuban, and see how fast it dies.


I was not refering to this 8X cores CPU-s series








I was talking about the future








It was sarcasm towards the sslloowww development MSI is doing for AMD mobos ,just to cut some costs.
I really hope the new MSI 9xx mobos are properly made.


----------



## reflex99

They are designed properly, amd just forgot to tell them about thuban.


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


They are designed properly, amd just forgot to tell them about thuban.












No ,i think MSI is in a temporal loop when it comes to AMD mobos









In 2008 when i bought the K9A2 Platinum there very few good AM2+ AMD mobo models on the MSI page.
You could see tens of Intel based mobos and few crappy ones middle range low TDP ones for AMD.
They tend to prefer the blue side for some reason


----------



## reflex99

They have different design teams for each side.

The k9a2 and the gd70 share almost the same vrm structure, but the gd70 uses drmos.

The k9 doesn't support x6 for a good reason.


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


They have different design teams for each side.

The k9a2 and the gd70 share almost the same vrm structure, but the gd70 uses drmos.

The k9 doesn't support x6 for a good reason.


K9A2 Platinum works with X6 tru BIOS update as it s a 140W TDP mobo.I don t know if overclocking the X6 you kill it though (most probable yes).

I really hope they ll do something to enhance the AMD range of mobos or people will start looking on some other brands for AMD rigs.

My MSI KT3 Ultra 2 worked 7 years almost flawless and also had the ability to work with Bartons via a BIOS update though it wasn t a Barton native.
So in 2002/2003 the MSI team that was making AMD mobos was ok.

They can do good stuff i know it.

LE: When you enter MSI website something interesting can be observed







In the motherboard cathegory Intel is shown by default "open" ,though A is before I







.So they are inviting you to take a look at the Intel offer first








MSI is in blue this days


----------



## xd_1771

Oh yeah reflex if you actually talk to Tator Tot, he claims he also blew up the 890FXA-GD65 (not just the Fuzion) on same processor, which makes it two MSI 8+2 boards of similar design (I don't think you know this)


----------



## reflex99

he went and bought another after he killed the first one?

crazy stuff.

Why does he not tell us this. I wanna see some pics.


----------



## xd_1771

I think he wanted to test them both. We really didn't ask him that much more about it, I managed to catch him in a chat conversation somewhere and found out directly


----------



## reflex99

I wanna see some pics though.

Wanna know if it was the chokes the mosfets, what.

With my own eyes.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;13498731*
> I wanna see some pics though.
> 
> Wanna know if it was the chokes the mosfets, what.
> 
> With my own eyes.


It was the MOSFET's themselves, two have burned traces and the other two have scorch marks on them (possible from the two that were burned in the first place.)
This was on the 870.

GD65 was another story, as I actually saw the fire and one whole VRM is toasted while the adjacent ones are scorched.

This was with a Phenom II 965 C3 @ 1.475 / 4.4Ghz CPU / 3.1Ghz CPU-NB / ~1600Mhz RAM
Quote:


> Why does he not tell us this. I wanna see some pics.


Pic's can come in the future (just not right now.)

The reason I don't tell anyone about this is because I simply haven't had time. I didn't buy the GD65 though, it was supplied to me as a test (by a person, not MSI) to see if it would burn as well.

More info will come; but it' hard to post info when you've got as much responsibility on the site as I do. A long with general work & school times (after all, it is finals week.)

I plan to do a large expose once MSI releases bulldozer boards to the public. I'll be taking both 870 and 890 class boards for a whirl to see if I can make them bow to the mighty bulldozer, or to see if MSI has finally learned their lesson about being cheap on parts (more so when the cost saving difference is nil at best.)


----------



## rheicel

Quick question guys, please can you show me how to start thread here, as I have some question on my GTX460. Thanks


----------



## reflex99

go to the forum you want to post in

Look to the top left. there should be a new thread button.


----------



## rheicel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;13498855*
> go to the forum you want to post in
> 
> Look to the top left. there should be a new thread button.


Ace +1 rep for you.


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13498836*
> It was the MOSFET's themselves, two have burned traces and the other two have scorch marks on them (possible from the two that were burned in the first place.)
> This was on the 870.
> 
> GD65 was another story, as I actually saw the fire and one whole VRM is toasted while the adjacent ones are scorched.
> 
> This was with a Phenom II 965 C3 @ 1.475 / 4.4Ghz CPU / 3.1Ghz CPU-NB / ~1600Mhz RAM
> 
> Pic's can come in the future (just not right now.)
> 
> The reason I don't tell anyone about this is because I simply haven't had time. I didn't buy the GD65 though, it was supplied to me as a test (by a person, not MSI) to see if it would burn as well.
> 
> More info will come; but it' hard to post info when you've got as much responsibility on the site as I do. A long with general work & school times (after all, it is finals week.)
> 
> I plan to do a large expose once MSI releases bulldozer boards to the public. I'll be taking both 870 and 890 class boards for a whirl to see if I can make them bow to the mighty bulldozer, or to see if MSI has finally learned their lesson about being cheap on parts (more so when the cost saving difference is nil at best.)


Have you managed to kill an Intel based MSI board while overclocking ?!
I have the feeling MSI is ignoring quality when it comes to AMD users for some obscure reason.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dromihetes*


Have you managed to kill an Intel based MSI board while overclocking ?!
I have the feeling MSI is ignoring quality when it comes to AMD users for some obscure reason.


I killed 3 first gen x58 boards. (X-58 Pro-E, Eclipse SLi, & X58 Platinum SLi)

I didn't get any time to play around with later ones as I had a Foxconn Bloodrage.


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I killed 3 first gen x58 boards. (X-58 Pro-E, Eclipse SLi, & X58 Platinum SLi)

I didn't get any time to play around with later ones as I had a Foxconn Bloodrage.


Ok ,thanks for the feedback !

You are a MSI killer


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dromihetes*


Ok ,thanks for the feedback !

You are a MSI killer










I have Socket A, Socket 775, Socket 478, Socket 939, and Socket AM2/AM2+ MSI boards that have all felt the wrath of my chips (thankfully all but 1 poor old P4 lived through them.)


----------



## reflex99

I have killed my GD80, but that was more my fault that the board.

appearnently 1.7v isn't a normal load for these things. And this was under dry ice, so my insulation could have been fail too.

btw, no fire or scorch marks, just kinda stopped booting with symptoms of a vrm failure.

MSI RMA'd it fine, so i now i have a working board. (as seen in sig)

Perchance have you ever played arround with an X4 on a GD70? I wanna see if you can kill one that way since you seem to have a special skill killing them.


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


MSI RMA'd it fine, so i now i have a working board. (as seen in sig)

.


This is the thing i still like at MSI.They don t hide when it comes to RMA something.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


Perchance have you ever played arround with an X4 on a GD70? I wanna see if you can kill one that way since you seem to have a special skill killing them.


I did on the second BIOS for the board; but it wouldn't hold up to high overclocks.

It'd shut down or fail to post, but it wouldn't actually burn itself up.

Still though, I did have one that failed to start up after awhile. I don't know what did it either (DICE run as well.) RMA'd and got a new board though.


----------



## reflex99

Do you kill boards for fun?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


Do you kill boards for fun?


No, MSI just seems to have something seriously lacking on the ability to design and engineer a board that can stand up to extreme overclocking.

I've had 2 Gigabytes, 3 Asus boards, and 1 Biostar fail on me.

Though MSI & Gigabyte are the boards I've had the most experience with though. I normally go to Gigabyte with the I/O options (normally, in the price range, Gigabyte has the most number of SATA, USB, & Firewire ports.)

I've had a number of MSI boards because they used to be one of the cheapest boards when it came to high end chipsets.


----------



## xd_1771

^ Are those failures all VRM related?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


^ Are those failures all VRM related?


Biostar actually had the South Bridge fail on it. I/O functions completely dropped out.

1 Giga had a VRM failure.

Asus' were socket damage


----------



## reflex99

I think you are doin' something wrong.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;13504394*
> I think you are doin' something wrong.


Nope.

The Biostar was very old, and the two Asus boards that died were known to have bad sockets. They didn't have violent deaths though. They would just stop working is all.

It's not hard to push a board passed it's design limitations. More so, only a few years back; many boards were not designed all that well and would be considered vastly inferior to today's standards.

For that matter, I've had more first hand experience with these products and the companies then you could hope.


----------



## reflex99

That would make a lot more sense than how i originally interpreted it.


----------



## Dromihetes

They all fail ,no matter the brand ,but it s the way they do it that counts








As long as i don t need to keep a fire extinguisher near my PC it s ok.


----------



## ezhadoank

is there anyone here who wants help me choose a motherboard 890 chipset for my b55, and of course to my Zambezi later (hope








)
I want buy ASUS M4A89TD PRO ($ 170), is this already sufficient to overclock?at least for daily OC...


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ezhadoank;13505739*
> is there anyone here who wants help me choose a motherboard 890 chipset for my b55, and of course to my Zambezi later (hope
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> I want buy ASUS M4A89TD PRO ($ 170), is this already sufficient to overclock?at least for daily OC...


AsRock 890FX Deluxe 5


----------



## ezhadoank

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13506175*
> AsRock 890FX Deluxe 5


how about price???


----------



## reflex99

I think it is like $180

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157248&Tpk=deluxe5


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ezhadoank;13506587*
> how about price???


$170 after $10 mail in rebate. Free shipping to boot.


----------



## hisoo

i wana a new matherbord for my bc


----------



## Krusher33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;13504394*
> I think you are doin' something wrong.


I lol'd at that being said to Tator Tot. He may as well overclock for a living.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krusher33;13519067*
> I lol'd at that being said to Tator Tot. He may as well overclock for a living.


If I could... I so would...


----------



## reflex99

Just because i'm not an editor doesn't mean i can't be a skeptic.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;13519254*
> Just because i'm not an editor doesn't mean i can't be a skeptic.


Not to toot to the horns of those on the staff, but we don't hire Editor's unless they are highly qualified for the sections that they run.

Still, his remarks go back that I was the AMD Editor when Phenom II first came out and I had more info on Phenom II then most folks at the time.

More so to the point, I used to be the top poster in the AMD section. Since then, I've lost my ability to post as often though.


----------



## reflex99

The way you worded the post in question, it sounded like you killed all that stuff in a short amount of time, when in actuality it was over a few years.


----------



## Krusher33

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Not to toot to the horns of those on the staff, but we don't hire Editor's unless they are highly qualified for the sections that they run.

Still, his remarks go back that I was the AMD Editor when Phenom II first came out and I had more info on Phenom II then most folks at the time. 
*
More so to the point, I used to be the top poster in the AMD section.* Since then, I've lost my ability to post as often though.


I remember that too. You had a post in just about every. single. "help me overclock" type threads.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;13519582*
> The way you worded the post in question, it sounded like you killed all that stuff in a short amount of time, when in actuality it was over a few years.


Bad wording on my part.

I killed most of the MSI boards quickly. Only because I bring them up to the bed. Do some generic testing, and then test the max they can do at certain cooling levels.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krusher33;13520164*
> I remember that too. You had a post in just about every. single. "help me overclock" type threads.


Oh lord.... don't remind me... I must have been crazy


----------



## reflex99

the lesson here is:

If you spam 1 section, you can get to be editor


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


the lesson here is:

If you spam 1 section, you can get to be editor


Not at all, that's not even close to how an editor is chosen.


----------



## reflex99

'twas a joke.

And that is how most of them get there.

Namely:
-zodac
-Yourself
-Phaedrus


----------



## Tator Tot

Zodac yes, the other two, no


----------



## reflex99

debatable


----------



## Krusher33

I'm beginning to wonder what's the symptoms of board shutdowns due to VRM's overheat on ASUS. Is it similar to the CPU one?

Reason I'm thinking this is because I'm stuck at 3.4 - 3.6 ghz on my chip, unlocked or not. It shuts down during BC2 but passes Prime 95. CPU has never gets over 38 C, normally not more than 35 C (probably depending on ambient). Memory's at around 1000, NB at 2200, and HT at 1800.


----------



## Dromihetes

Take a look at your power supply first








Change that and try again.
BF BC2 = CPU+VGA stress
Prime = only CPU stress


----------



## Krusher33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes;13527324*
> Take a look at your power supply first
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Change that and try again.
> BF BC2 = CPU+VGA stress
> Prime = only CPU stress


You gave me a thought: I tried BC2 last night with CPU OC but with VGA at stock and the game ran fine. No crashes. Next time I'm gonna try a lower VGA OC and see how it goes.

But I'm still curious though: what does ASUS mobo shutdown from VRM heat limit look like... similar to CPU one perhaps?


----------



## xd_1771

The PSU should be quite adequate for that build... I'd say it's actually GPU instability with the OC
I think the ASUS limit is in the 80Cs


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;13536922*
> The PSU should be quite adequate for that build...


No , if its split rail the overcurrent protection of the PSU will kick in before the PSU reaches it s physical limits for real.
Even if theoretically may be enough power in it ,the split rail design will close that cheap PSU due to overloading on the VGA conectors rail.
My bet is on the PSU


----------



## Krusher33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dromihetes;13536997*
> No , if its split rail the overcurrent protection of the PSU will kick in before the PSU reaches it s physical limits for real.
> Even if theoretically may be enough power in it ,the split rail design will close that cheap PSU due to overloading on the VGA conectors rail.
> My bet is on the PSU


Nope, single rail design.

Inexpensive-yes. Cheap-no. I call it the Hyper 212+ of power supplies. Really quite the bang for bucks.

Let's also not forget to look at sig rig. All components don't really draw much power. I mean really it was suggested I get a 500W power supply but ended up with this one due to a shell shocker deal.

Believe me, I was quite hesitant to getting a Rosewill for a power supply. But after reading this review Tator Tot had in his guide, I knew it was too good to pass up: http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Rosewill-Green-Series-630-W-RG630-S12-Power-Supply-Review/881/1.


----------



## Dromihetes

So if it s good why you have issues that point to possible power issues ?!
If it s so good keep it .


----------



## Krusher33

How do we know if it's power issue though? When we boot back into windows, there is a bluescreen code.


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krusher33;13540041*
> How do we know if it's power issue though? When we boot back into windows, there is a bluescreen code.


Create a new topic so we discuss along more people .as this thread has other purpose.I doubt it s the mobo VRM-s.
Post the codes you get there and so on.


----------



## ezhadoank

hello there. I've bought ASRock 890 deluxe 5 a few hours ago, tomorrow i'll buy b55 and memory ram.
what should i do to my system,.I do not believe I could upgrade all of my system after a long patience.LoL
if all part of my system, i hope to u all to help me configure my new system.








anyone here can give me suggestion for my memory?


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ezhadoank*


hello there. I've bought ASRock 890 deluxe 5 a few hours ago, tomorrow i'll buy b55 and memory ram.
what should i do to my system,.I do not believe I could upgrade all of my system after a long patience.LoL
if all part of my system, i hope to u all to help me configure my new system.








anyone here can give me suggestion for my memory?


You should create a New Thread for your problem.This is a topic with something else in mind.


----------



## EvoBeardy

Any news of the MSI 990FXA-GD65 and 80 models? They seem to have the same Phase layout as eachother, and after seeing the Asus 990FX Sabretooth, I'm torn in what one to go for now.









Great work by the way guys, between this and the other information regarding motherboard MOSFET problems and the list of unlockable AMD chips, you've both done alot of work and shared it with the community.









+rep to you both.


----------



## xd_1771

And here's one on the MSI NF-750-G55 (supposed odd one out)
Granted, it was an x6 being powered, with heavy OC to 4Ghz at 1.5V. User didn't listen, with VRM (TMPIN2) temps exceeding 100C, then.... BOOM


----------



## EvoBeardy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


And here's one on the MSI NF-750-G55 (supposed odd one out)
Granted, it was an x6 being powered, with heavy OC to 4Ghz at 1.5V. User didn't listen, with VRM (TMPIN2) temps exceeding 100C, then.... BOOM


Wow, just saw that thread, that sucks.

So I'm curious, I thought most of those high TEMPIN sensors were dud or misreads, my TEMPIN1 reads 105c, lowest 102, highest of 107c. Speedfan also has this temp under _F71889F_.
TEMPIN0 is my CPU Temp (currently 24c), and I can only assume TEMPIN2 is my NB? (25c).

I'm running at stock clocks (1.34v), and have done as an x4 for the year that I've had my board, other than when I was pushing my OC on infrequent occasion and disabled logging of the high temp reading in Speedfan, so I couldn't say what it ever hit as a high.

Is this sensor actually working and legit then?
If so, should I think about replacing the stock MOSFET HS with some Enzotech MOS-C1's, just replace the thermal pad on the bottom of the current HS, or would I need to direct some air in that direct regardless of what I do to the HS?

A little concerned after reaslising the sensor I took as a dud, might actually be legit.









Thanks in advance mate.


----------



## Asmodean

Nice1 man, +1 nice to see my board is classed as decent lol ^^


----------



## linkin93

FYI The ASRock 890GX R2.0 has an 8+2 setup. Says so in the manual and on the webpage:

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.as...Specifications

Quote:



General
CPU- Support for Socket AM3+ processors
- Support for Socket AM3 processors: AMD Phenomâ„¢ II X6 / X4 / X3 / X2 (except 920 / 940) / Athlon II X4 / X3 / X2 / Sempron processors
- Supports 8-Core CPU
- Supports UCC feature (Unlock CPU Core)
*- Advanced V8 + 2 Power Phase Design*
- Supports CPU up to 140W
- Supports AMD's Cool 'n' Quiet Technology
- FSB 2600 MHz (5.2 GT/s)
- Supports Untied Overclocking Technology
- Supports Hyper-Transport 3.0 (HT 3.0) Technology


Feel free to prove me wrong though. Also been running my overclock with high-ish volts (maxes out at 1.5v) with Cool'n'Quiet disabled, with no issues.


----------



## Tator Tot

AsRock's 8x0 Extreme & Deluxe boards are solid boards.
You should be fine with any of them.

The AsRock 870 Extreme 3 is a solid board, but the only one I wouldn't recommend to use with an x6. The rest are solid boards.


----------



## VAMBA

Here's the motherboard that I have installed in my mid-range rig.









So I guess you guys do not recommended me to over-clock whatsoever?

I just recently OC'd my Athlon II X4 645 to 3.5mhz(originally 3.1mhz) by raising the FSB to 230. Based on what I've seen in this thread I believe it's best for me to downclock it to original speeds? Am I missing something?

I apologize for asking. I'm not too knowledgeable in OCing.

Thanks,
VAMBA


----------



## reflex99

Athlon II is relatively lower power part. 400MHz isnt that much.

I would say it is fine. Maybe put a fan facing the VRM area or something if you want to be safe.


----------



## VAMBA

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


Athlon II is relatively lower power part. 400MHz isnt that much.

I would say it is fine. Maybe put a fan facing the VRM area or something if you want to be safe.


Would you say I reached my OC limits at 3.5mhz?

Honestly I am afraid because all I did was raise the value of the FSB in the bios without lowering any other values.

If I want to overclock any further would you want me to return this and purchase a better motherboard, for say an ASUS motherboard?

I would rather not pay extra and change my motherboard but if it has to come down to it I am willing to pay a few extra dollars to not risk destroying my rig.


----------



## reflex99

At 3.5ghz i think the risk is minimal.


----------



## Joseph Cool

I think you're overstating the importance of mosfet heatsinks. Sure they're good to have, but you can still have a decent overclock with alot of the motherboards on the list you recommend not overclocking with. I'm currently overclocking on two of the boards on the not recommended list (MA-880GM-UD2H [email protected] 4GHz 1.45v and M4A88T-I Deluxe [email protected] 3.94GHz 1.475v) for a while now and these computers do alot of heavy lifting.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VAMBA;13582539*
> Would you say I reached my OC limits at 3.5mhz?
> 
> Honestly I am afraid because all I did was raise the value of the FSB in the bios without lowering any other values.
> 
> If I want to overclock any further would you want me to return this and purchase a better motherboard, for say an ASUS motherboard?
> 
> I would rather not pay extra and change my motherboard but if it has to come down to it I am willing to pay a few extra dollars to not risk destroying my rig.


You're fine, no need to spend more money for nothing.


----------



## reflex99

Better to spend $10 on mosfet heatsinks than $100+ on a new board


----------



## linkin93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *linkin93*


FYI The ASRock 890GX R2.0 has an 8+2 setup. Says so in the manual and on the webpage:

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.as...Specifications

Feel free to prove me wrong though. Also been running my overclock with high-ish volts (maxes out at 1.5v) with Cool'n'Quiet disabled, with no issues.


Fix it pretty please


----------



## Tator Tot

All of AsRock's Extreme4 boards are 8+2 designs.

The Extreme3 870 and Extreme3 770 are only 4+1 designs.

The Ex3 870 can handle quads without an issue, the Ex3 770 needs some MOS-C1's as it has no heatsink on the VRM's.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Joseph Cool*


(MA-880GM-UD2H [email protected] 4GHz 1.45v and M4A88T-I Deluxe [email protected] 3.94GHz 1.475v)


Ouch, both seem dangerous
880GM-UD2H: 4+1 phase with known problems, old design from Gigabyte
M4A88T-I Deluxe: Not even rated for >95W processors

Quote:



Originally Posted by *VAMBA*


So I guess you guys do not recommended me to over-clock whatsoever?

I just recently OC'd my Athlon II X4 645 to 3.5mhz(originally 3.1mhz) by raising the FSB to 230. Based on what I've seen in this thread I believe it's best for me to downclock it to original speeds? Am I missing something


Well, pioneerisloud had this board VRM-fry on him with a stock 95W TDP Athlon II x4 on stock cooler... not that that is probably going to happen all the time, but this board with these VRMs & similar designs is known to be finicky on higher TDP processors

------

Adding 990FX-UD7 to the list now that there are screenshots. It is 8+2 and Driver MOSFET, something I haven't seen before from GIGABYTE


----------



## reflex99

Like all of their top end boards have driver mosfets...

not really new.


----------



## Dromihetes

What could you expect from a simple thing as a VRM .They can t be revolutionary.
You can t reinvent the wheels ,but you can put better tires on them.
It s the quality of the components used that counts mostly.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;13594649*
> Fix it pretty please


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13595281*
> All of AsRock's Extreme4 boards are 8+2 designs.
> 
> The Extreme3 870 and Extreme3 770 are only 4+1 designs.
> 
> The Ex3 870 can handle quads without an issue, the Ex3 770 needs some MOS-C1's as it has no heatsink on the VRM's.


fixed

Mistakes happen. Sadly i am only human....


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;13597514*
> fixed
> 
> Mistakes happen. Sadly i am only human....


It's no big, I dropped off the info for a reason.

I've had all of AsRock's Extreme/Deluxe AMD boards across my bed already.

Sadly, no reviews (or pictures) can be taken, as they were ES boards. Not meant to be released to the public. Though only minor changes were made to them. They dropped the USB 3.0 internal headers from two of the boards, and changed the 870's PCIe arrangement.


----------



## reflex99

do you work for something that allows you to use all this stuff?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;13597932*
> do you work for something that allows you to use all this stuff?


I've done work with companies in this regard because my name has merrit. Either from overclocking exploits, or from my work as a reviewer, or from these forums.

Some companies watch the community, and often enough, when they want to release something to target a certain aspect of the market, they consult someone.

I've done consulting with Cooler Master, Ducky, AsRock, and others. It's almost always 0 Gain work though.
On the flipside, I get access to some products or designs (IE: mechanical drawing of a case, or pictures of a prototype) before others (even some folks in those companies) do, so I can submit my opinion and any design changes I might have in mind.


----------



## reflex99

that is pretty sick


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;13599389*
> that is pretty sick


It's rather annoying actually.

Some companies are hard to work with, others are just slow.

AsRock's been one of the best in terms of taking an idea and running with it.


----------



## reflex99

well you get to play around with a lot of stuff.

The way i understand it, it is more for their benefit than yours, so to hell with them if they don't want to hurry up.


----------



## langer1972

Sounds like a sweet gig to me.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;13599527*
> well you get to play around with a lot of stuff.
> 
> The way i understand it, it is more for their benefit than yours, so to hell with them if they don't want to hurry up.


It is just about, 100% their benefit.

I also, don't get to keep everything I use. Some ES stuff I have to send back, other stuff is keep it or toss it (no resale though, obvious reasons on that one.)


----------



## reflex99

how hard do you think it would be to get anyone to send me something to review/test/whatever?

(see sig)


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;13600053*
> how hard do you think it would be to get anyone to send me something to review/test/whatever?
> 
> (see sig)


It's all about SEO (Search Engine Optimization) and the number of hits/unique visitors you can generate.


----------



## xd_1771

So far I've got two ASRock boards (both lower end 880G) with confirmed VRM protection by shutdown. Can someone look into this? i.e. is it only ASRock AMD boards designed before split from ASUS?


----------



## linkin93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;13604022*
> So far I've got two ASRock boards (both lower end 880G) with confirmed VRM protection by shutdown. Can someone look into this? i.e. is it only ASRock AMD boards designed before split from ASUS?


Better that than them popping, hey?









I'm still sad that an 880G Extreme3 popped.


----------



## xd_1771

Hence I'm thinking, perhaps it was before ASRock split from ASUS that they had OCP? Such a failure on a board with good VRMs screams "lack of protection" to me


----------



## linkin93

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;13604763*
> Hence I'm thinking, perhaps it was before ASRock split from ASUS that they had OCP? Such a failure on a board with good VRMs screams "lack of protection" to me


I guess we'll find out sooner or later. Do the low rds ones come with protection or not?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *linkin93;13604788*
> I guess we'll find out sooner or later. Do the low rds ones come with protection or not?


They add protection with an IC. It's a component they can include, or leave out.


----------



## anotheralex

What do the colors (colours*) represent?
I did a few searches on this thread.. color, colour, green, red to try and figure out exactly what they mean but came up with nothing.
All I have figured out so far is that * means they are split phase, since it is marked in the first post.
I really like how this thread allows people to see information not often shown in newegg, tigerdirect, etc.. so for clarity-sake can someone please post a legend for the color (colour*) coding. Since I don't want to make the assumption that the green 8+2 is somehow more superior to the 8+2 in black text.


----------



## reflex99

the * is the only one that acutally means anything officially.

The colors are usually used like this:

red: lowest
orange: medium
green: best


----------



## anotheralex

Oh okay, thanks for clearing that up.
So does that mean black is just 'okay' or is it like an 'unknown' status'?


----------



## reflex99

black means i/we was/were too lazy to click the change color thingy

sometimes it can also mean above orange, but below green

xd_17 is a little less lazy than myself, so most of the parts he did are filled out properly, meanwhile mine are a little less rainbowy


----------



## anotheralex

Ah, I see, thanks for all the info!


----------



## xd_1771

Just added a Socket FM1 power phase notice to first post (i.e. how they are arranged/how it works). Hope you don't mind there reflex
(inb4 you yell in my face for editing your post







)

Also adding more FM1 boards


----------



## reflex99

get outta mah post!!!>>>asdifhajksd

lol


----------



## teflon2425

I have a GA-880GA-UD3H and your table indicates compatibility with the Enzotech MST-81. However, this heat sink does NOT fit on this board... It is too short.

It sucks too, cause I can't find these items in Australia, I have to order them from the US...


----------



## xd_1771

I remember hearing that before actually, I will be updating that.


----------



## reflex99

Did you buy that heatsink because of this thread?

Really sorry about that man......


----------



## teflon2425

Yeah, I got it cause I saw it on the list. Not a big deal, wasn't expensive, just took a month to get here... I wonder if anyone knows which Enzotech heat sink will fit it???


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *teflon2425*


Yeah, I got it cause I saw it on the list. Not a big deal, wasn't expensive, just took a month to get here... I wonder if anyone knows which Enzotech heat sink will fit it???


They make an MST-83, that is most likely the one that fits.

Most of Gigabyte's VRM Heatsinks on AMD boards use that spacing.


----------



## reflex99

you could get the mos-c1 ones, which will fit on pretty much anything


----------



## allikat

Spacing on the boards does differ, I took the mosfet heatsink off a dead MA790x-UD3P and tried it on a MA770-UD3(v2.0) and the hole spacing on the 770 was a half inch or so wider


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *allikat;13705154*
> Spacing on the boards does differ, I took the mosfet heatsink off a dead MA790x-UD3P and tried it on a MA770-UD3(v2.0) and the hole spacing on the 770 was a half inch or so wider


You should still be able to adapt it to the board.Don t give up









To bad Gigabyte doesn t sell this VRM heasinks separately.I m sure they don t install them to ease up the price ,but after you buy such board you should be able to find some heatsinks ,tailored for the VRM spacing ,from Gigabyte.


----------



## xd_1771

Just updated the Llano boards guys. Lots of low end 2+1+1 phases (boards with 4 phase are 2+1+1: 2 CPU portion, 1 GPU, 1 IMC). 2 phases for CPU!!! Sure the CPU may not consume too much of the TDP, but so I've seen it will be ridiculously overclockable (4Ghz under 1V). Phenom II was overclockable enough as a 45nm, as a 32nm... oh no. ohhh no. Pair that with low quality.... MSI appears to be using the same NIKOS MOSFET designs on lower-end boards with no change. Llano is going to be a gong show.


----------



## reflex99

These CPus are designed for laptops

All the laptops i've used don't have more than 2-3 phases on the CPU.

and we dont have any confirmation on the X+x+x design yet (if we do, i havent seen it)

The imc and the GPU could share phases, since they are on the same die after all.


----------



## Tator Tot

IMC and CPU have always been on the same die with AMD. They always have done the split power planes though.

GPU will be no different as they all use Gates.

There will be a PDF about this division soon most likely. Once Llano at least gets the paper launch.


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;13720057*
> Just updated the Llano boards guys. Lots of low end 2+1+1 phases (boards with 4 phase are 2+1+1: 2 CPU portion, 1 GPU, 1 IMC). 2 phases for CPU!!! Sure the CPU may not consume too much of the TDP, but so I've seen it will be ridiculously overclockable (4Ghz under 1V). Phenom II was overclockable enough as a 45nm, as a 32nm... oh no. ohhh no. Pair that with low quality.... MSI appears to be using the same NIKOS MOSFET designs on lower-end boards with no change. Llano is going to be a gong show.


Maybe the new fabrication process really helps in aquiering a decent ,reduced ,low cost VRM for this low-end CPU-s (or whatever they are called).I doubt most of this mobos will feature overclocking capabilities anyway.

The Nikos mosfet/firecrackers show on MSI mobos is a different business though.


----------



## matroska

Any of you guys happen to know or guesstimate a date to see this new boards on the shelves? Either FM1 or AM3+ socket? or these will probably be lanched along with the new chips?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matroska;13728488*
> Any of you guys happen to know or guesstimate a date to see this new boards on the shelves? Either FM1 or AM3+ socket? or these will probably be lanched along with the new chips?


GD80 and Sabertooth are already on store shelves. AsRock Deluxe 5 (890FX / AM3+) is also on store shelves (and has been for awihle.) They're all solid boards.


----------



## matroska

Oh, thnx!
Probably won't be long until they reach this side of the Atlantic then, more specificly Portugal








Only ones i saw for sale and only from this week on, were the Asus M5A78...


----------



## xd_1771

This is on the boards for the desktop APUs, which will use the higher TDPs/power consumption that desktop chips use.

AM3+ boards are already on the shelves, FM1 boards I'm not entirely sure. The AM3+ BD chips themselves are July-August and FM1 Llano will be sooner.


----------



## EvoBeardy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matroska;13728562*
> Oh, thnx!
> Probably won't be long until they reach this side of the Atlantic then, more specificly Portugal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only ones i saw for sale and only from this week on, were the Asus M5A78...


They've just started to flow into the UK, I've literally been checking every day. Today the Asus Sabretooth, Crosshair V Formula, M5A99X EVO and M5A97 PRO are now in stock and up on listings.

From a few days ago up until today, there was only the MSI 990FXA GD-65, GD80 and Gigabyte 990FXA-UD5 and UD7.
I imagine it won't be long before you start seeing them all.


----------



## xd_1771

So I have heard of an MSI 970A-G45. So I did a google s--hold on a minute what








Same unheatsinked 4+1 design!? That looks to have the same NIKOS MOSFETs!?
No.... NO!!!!!!









Well the arrangement looks to be different, looks like they now use 4 transistors per phase. Something to make up for the bad quality?


----------



## reflex99

I deleted all the "ZOMG DONT OVERCLOCK" stuff from the AM3+/FM1 sections because NONE OF THESE BOARDS HAVE BEEN TESTED YET.

And that design is definetly different that the old one:









EDIT: and how can you read the nikos branding from that far away? I can barely read anything with a board sitting right infront of me


----------



## xd_1771

I've got fairly well good eyes on even such images... it appears that, after looking at photos of both the 970 and A75 boards, that the MOSFETs are NIKOS, due to how the text appears to be arranged (written across in 3 or so lines); I guess you are right in that we should await testing. It should be noted that we have seen failures on two MSI 8+2 boards blow after testing, something that might not be easily predictable without such testing.


----------



## Tator Tot

I can't confirm or deny them being NIKOS MOSFETs, but the G45 should come with a Heatsink on the VRMs.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


I've got fairly well good eyes on even such images... it appears that, after looking at photos of both the 970 and A75 boards, that the MOSFETs are NIKOS, due to how the text appears to be arranged (written across in 3 or so lines); I guess you are right in that we should await testing. It should be noted that we have seen failures on two MSI 8+2 boards blow after testing, something that might not be easily predictable without such testing.


Magical things called "revisions"









Who knows at this point. MSI could have turned the whole thing arround.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


I can't confirm or deny them being NIKOS MOSFETs, but the G45 should come with a Heatsink on the VRMs.


sweet


----------



## shnur

Thanks for that list. I just got a hold of a GA-870A-UD3 for a friend's build. 
Looks pretty good so far


----------



## xd_1771

My hopes are up, but hey they managed to introduce their first 8+2 AMD board and it still showed signs of low quality despite the increased phase count...
As for the 4 transistors per phase, I'm not entirely sure if this is worse or better or how it is arranged.


----------



## z3r0_k00l75

How about as little less of whatever the [email protected] fm1 is and bringing back more of am2+/am3
I'm finding this list rather useless as I haven't got the money for an am3+ and all the info I could use has suddenly gone missing from this thread.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *z3r0_k00l75*


How about as little less of whatever the [email protected] fm1 is and bringing back more of am2+/am3
I'm finding this list rather useless as I haven't got the money for an am3+ and all the info I could use has suddenly gone missing from this thread.


We haven't got arround to completing the AM2+ sheet, since those are not the kind of boards that people are buying nowadays.

When people go to select a new motherboard, they are usually looking into newer stuff like AM3/AM3+/FM1

We have a few popular AM2+ boards on there since they were requested.

If you have a board in mind, i can go research it for you, and add it to the list.


----------



## z3r0_k00l75

wow, that was a really polite answer to my rude post. Makes me rather ashamed of myself. But if you are offering, I'd love to have the info on my 785gt-e63. Everything here I have read pretty much boils down to the "why I hate msi" thread. As someone that has 5 dead msi boards in my closet I can feel that, but this 785gt has been nothing but wonderful ever since I got it. I'm a linux enthusiast so it does benefit me to stay a couple years behind the game, both because of driver support and my wallets been light here lately. I'm finding it rather nice that I can get into the OC game without investing 1200+ in a rig. The older boards do still have popularity









edit= just what is fm1 anyway?


----------



## reflex99

FM1 is kinda the 1156 to AM3+

is is kinda just a more mainstream version. Llano will use FM1.

I'll get that info in a sec. MSI has one older design, that is used in the NF750-G55, that is rather good, which i think the E63 might use as well.

anyways, brb with that info


----------



## reflex99

Updated the sheet with the 785GT-E63, couldn't find any pics w/o the heatsink, so info is limited.

Looks to be the same design as the NF750-G55, which isn't half bad.

If you could take a pic with the heatsink off, that would be awesome.....


----------



## z3r0_k00l75

damn, 2 hours ago this request would have been so easy. I finally got my mugen 2 installed and it would literally be a complete tear-down to get to the mosfet heatsink.


----------



## z3r0_k00l75

Promise next teardown I'm gonna grab some naked board pics, just cause this board seems to be rockin;







btw this is the 7551 rev, 1.2 so it is probably better than what came b4


----------



## Tator Tot

785GT-E63 is to be avoided. NIKOS MOSFETs and the heatsink makes poor contact with the MOSFETs themselves.

No, I haven't killed it yet. I haven't OC'd it with a Thuban yet either.


----------



## z3r0_k00l75

I'm not trying to kill it lol. I dont think I'd run a 6-core thuban @ 1.5VCore on anything less than an Asus or Gigabyte high end board. But for a p2 955 @ 1.375vcore and 3.8 overclock, this seems like a great price/performance board.


----------



## z3r0_k00l75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13747538*
> 785GT-E63 is to be avoided. NIKOS MOSFETs and the heatsink makes poor contact with the MOSFETs themselves.
> 
> No, I haven't killed it yet. I haven't OC'd it with a Thuban yet either.


Damn, now I'm curious as to how I can improve the mosfet heatsink. Got any suggestions?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *z3r0_k00l75;13748440*
> Damn, now I'm curious as to how I can improve the mosfet heatsink. Got any suggestions?


Add plastic washers to it to hold it down tighter (one or two should do.)

For a quad it most likely won't be a problem (up to 4Ghz/1.45v) but I would caution against using a Hexacore


----------



## jyk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13748488*
> Add plastic washers to it to hold it down tighter (one or two should do.)
> 
> For a quad it most likely won't be a problem (up to 4Ghz/1.45v) but I would caution against using a Hexacore


Tator Tot, you reminded me:

The front page makes it a point to say: 125W+, OC w/caution (use low volts): what does "low volts" mean?

I have the ASRock 870 extreme3 motherboard. I know you mentioned you had history testing ASRock motherboards. How much can they take - I got 555 BE that I've ran up to 3.8ghz, @ 1.464v. I've tried for 3.9ghz, but was still unstable @ 1.488v. How much voltage head room is there? I've been afraid to go further, do to the warning on the front page. But as it doesn't give a specific number, I don't know if I'm under, at, or above the borderline.

Cheers,

Jyk


----------



## Tator Tot

They're cautioning the usage of low voltage because of the transitor & phase count.

Though generally low voltage would be below 1.4v, I've tested the board up to 1.5v on an x6. And it was fine.
Do note that I had an Antec Spot Cool on low, blowing onto the VRM area.


----------



## jyk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


They're cautioning the usage of low voltage because of the transitor & phase count.

Though generally low voltage would be below 1.4v, I've tested the board up to 1.5v on an x6. And it was fine. 
Do note that I had an Antec Spot Cool on low, blowing onto the VRM area.



The x6, I imagine pulls, 115-120 watts (max 125). The 555 x2 overclocked is significantly less watts. So is it the volts or the watts that is problem?

Also this:










I use the 555's original heatsink fan as additional cooling for the vrm. And then threw on an old junked heatsink fan on to the northbridge...










Actually, I made a thread about it too.

I suppose that the 555 stock hsf is similar (maybe a bit better) to the Antec Spot Cool's performance. Hopefully it helps,

Jyk


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *jyk*


Tator Tot, you reminded me:

The front page makes it a point to say: 125W+, OC w/caution (use low volts): what does "low volts" mean?

I have the ASRock 870 extreme3 motherboard. I know you mentioned you had history testing ASRock motherboards. How much can they take - I got 555 BE that I've ran up to 3.8ghz, @ 1.464v. I've tried for 3.9ghz, but was still unstable @ 1.488v. How much voltage head room is there? I've been afraid to go further, do to the warning on the front page. But as it doesn't give a specific number, I don't know if I'm under, at, or above the borderline.

Cheers,

Jyk


It is a pretty high quality board, but there is only so much you can do with 4 phases. Hence the caution. If you want to prove us wrong, great, we welcome it. As the OP says, those "ratings" are mostly subjective, as we do not have the capital to actually test most of these boards.


----------



## Tator Tot

@jyk, that's a solid solution for keeping the VRM's cool.

A x6 can draw up to 200w.

Voltage does not have a great effect on power draw. But frequency does, as frequency increases can dramatically increase the amperage draw, which then increases the power draw substantially.

Still though, a 555BE won't push that boards VRMs.


----------



## xd_1771

TDP usually takes into account heat more than power consumption, but it is mostly a reference value for cooling solutions. The Phenom II stock cooler will be able to handle 125-140W processors at stock speed, but anything less might not do it. Anything more would be redundant, allowing you to push the processor past the normal TDP value, which also brings up the power consumption by a fair bit.

A 555 BE will not push the VRMs that hard if it is remained locked to 2 cores.


----------



## jyk

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


@jyk, that's a solid solution for keeping the VRM's cool.


Thanks! That's big complement to a $3 solution








(Junked fans, a BBQ grilling rack, old window blinds parts, and a cut-up bath mat)

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


A x6 can draw up to 200w.

Voltage does not have a great effect on power draw. But frequency does, as frequency increases can dramatically increase the amperage draw, which then increases the power draw substantially. Still though, a 555BE won't push that boards VRMs.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*

A 555 BE will not push the VRMs that hard if it is remained locked to 2 cores.


That's a relief.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*

If you want to prove us wrong, great, we welcome it. As the OP says, those "ratings" are mostly subjective, as we do not have the capital to actually test most of these boards.


 I guess I'll try a bit more voltage to see if I can get to a stable 3.9 or 4.0 and report back if successful... Btw: can you add, for reference/definition of terms, the bit _*Tator Tot*_ said to the OP, about OC w/caution (use low volts) means: suggesting users to use less than 1.40v for vcore. ?

thanks again,
Jyk.


----------



## xd_1771

Yeah, basically it means don't push the vCore higher/to the extreme i.e. passing 1.5V
Most MSI 790FX-GD70 that did die with the Phenom II x4, did so at above 1.5V

1.4V should be okay


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


Yeah, basically it means don't push the vCore higher/to the extreme i.e. passing 1.5V
Most MSI 790FX-GD70 that did die with the Phenom II x4, did so at above 1.5V

1.4V should be okay


Did you find more?

The last i checked you only had one.


----------



## jyk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;13751691*
> Yeah, basically it means don't push the vCore higher/to the extreme i.e. passing 1.5V
> Most MSI 790FX-GD70 that did die with the Phenom II x4, did so at above 1.5V
> 
> 1.4V should be okay


Unfortunately, I guess I got a runty 555 BE CPU that take a lot to get stable. The motherboard auto-vcore sets at 1.43v - When I put it on manual, the lowest I can run stable is 1.37v, with LLC on, which bumps the voltage to 1.404v at idle and 1.416 on load.









BTW: I tried ocing to 3.9ghz @ 1.4625v in the BIOS w/ LLC on, vcore idles at 1.486v, Prime95 load 1.504v - froze after 1 hour of Prime95... on the flip, at least my MOSFET heatsink was still relatively cool.

I've had the processor 4 months, would have been nice to figure this out sooner, then I would have exchanged it...

Jyk


----------



## xd_1771

Well I have seen discussion about MSI 790FX boards taking the blow if you push more than 1.5V before, but I haven't actually seen examples... I am looking for them


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;13754711*
> Well I have seen discussion about MSI 790FX boards taking the blow if you push more than 1.5V before, but I haven't actually seen examples... I am looking for them


I really don't think they are a problem with X4's

I think i might see if i can convince Alex to let me borrow a sample to test some X4's with, and see if i can kill it


----------



## SpykeZ

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128416&cm_re=N82E16813128416-_-13-128-416-_-Product

My board = 790XTA = UD4

Overclocks like a dream


----------



## reflex99

I had a 790X-UD4P back in the day.

Probably my favorite board after the FXE


----------



## xd_1771

My 790XT board is a direct descendant of the 790X, and the 790XTA is another descendant. It was a killer for the price even at the time







I just wish they still sold it


----------



## EvoBeardy

You probably know this already, but the 990FXA-GD65 _is_ the 890FXA-GD65, was just checking the listing, and was surprised to see it blank still.

As you know 990 chipset is pin-for-pin compatible with 890 socket, as this was the first genuinely decent motherboard they've put out for a while IMHO, it kinda makes sense to utilize it, as consumers will want a "new" board, AM3+ and 990 will attract more than AM3 and 890. Also, this board was released so late in the game.

Black stickers instead of blue on the 890, genuine AM3+ socket, obviously different NB/SB chipsets. Otherwise, exactly the same board, same phase.









990FXA-GD65
890FXA-GD65


----------



## xd_1771

It indeed doesn't look much different... and that's a bad thing, Tator Tot actually blew one of these boards on a Phenom II x4 before... though I can imagine it would happen very rarely, if at all, I still find it a rather bad thing...


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;13777556*
> It indeed doesn't look much different... and that's a bad thing, Tator Tot actually blew one of these boards on a Phenom II x4 before... though I can imagine it would happen very rarely, if at all, I still find it a rather bad thing...


They could have upgraded or changed the MOSFETs.

It's hard to tell without the heatsink off.


----------



## EvoBeardy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13777613*
> They could have upgraded or changed the MOSFETs.
> 
> It's hard to tell without the heatsink off.


I find it hard to believe they would go to the trouble of doing that, when everything else is simply sticker replacement and changing/adding stamping on the PCB.
Even then, it's only additional AM3+ squabble, 990FXA and nVidia SLI stamping that differs.
Everything down to the Mobo stamp is the same otherwise. Not even a new revision number.

Though, anything's possible, of course.


----------



## reflex99

mosfets are also for the mostpart swappable mid-product cycle


----------



## xd_1771

It is possible, though is it really the MOSFETs that are the problem? Despite that there are 2x phases (and by extension, 2X MOSFETs) they seem to fail.
Perhaps it is the MOSFETs, but the type (Driver MOSFET).... I think they're normally known to apparently be more fragile


----------



## Tator Tot

MOSFETs are like Capacitors, some are much more tolerant to heat than others.

Choose the right components, and it really doesn't matter what your phase count or type of MOSFETs are.

Biostar's TA890FXE is a great example of that.


----------



## kevinf

Any idea why the boards with integrated graphics have 8 phase power and those without have 6? I thought the phase count is only CPU+IMC...
Does the phase count affect the north bridge power? SB,PCIe,DDR slots all have their own VRM as well correct?

---
ASUS:
M4A89TD PRO/USB3 6+2 , PCIe 16x dual AMD 890FX/SB850
M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 8+2 , PCIe 8x dual 890GX/SB850 , onboard graphics
M4A89TD PRO 6+2 Phase ,PCIe 16x dual AMD 890FX/SB850
M4A89GTD PRO 8+2 Phase ,PCIe 8x dual AMD 890GX/SB850 , onboard graphics


----------



## reflex99

northbridges have their own power phases.

This list does not include them, since it doesn't really matter that much.

I have no idea why ASUS set up their boards like that. Might have something to do with northbridge placement since it is further to the left on the FX boards.


----------



## Tator Tot

Depending if the board has an IGP, the NB is usually either a 2 or 2+2 Phase design.
1 Phase for the SB, and then 1+1 phase for the DIMM slots (1 phase per channel/2slots)


----------



## xd_1771

I think the M4A89TD boards were set up as a 6+2 to differentiate and lower cost vs. the higher end Crosshair IV boards.

With the new 900 series lineup, all ASUS boards below 990FX (I think) are a 6+2 phase now. Either way should be fine actually as long as they're heatsinked. Just one may provide somewhat more stable power than the other.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;13863822*
> I think the M4A89TD boards were set up as a 6+2 to differentiate and lower cost vs. the higher end Crosshair IV boards.
> 
> With the new 900 series lineup, all ASUS boards below 990FX (I think) are a 6+2 phase now. Either way should be fine actually as long as they're heatsinked. Just one may provide somewhat more stable power than the other.


The 6+2 Phase design from Asus will be fine for just about anything.

Asus' biggest folly is the EPU and VPU chips they add to the board, they can't get Vdroop under control with their boards without some heavy tweaking with LLC.

The power circuitry in and of itself, is fine though.


----------



## kevinf

thanks guys







that confirmed my thoughts perfectly. That being said, for the price I think im going to get a black socket AM3+ board instead of upgrading bios on those older Asus boards.

How important is Vdroop control in the BIOS? The new 990x boards are looking great, Asus M5A99X 6+2 and Gigabyte GA-990XA-UD3 8+2. Is the gigabyte one better overall, even though it doesn't have the Vdroop control that the asus one does?

Looking to OC the 965 C3 with a 4GB kit of mushkin DDR3-1600 CL7 to 4Gghz+ with OCing the ram to 1800Mhz, hopefully at CL8/9.


----------



## Tator Tot

Stable voltage is VERY important to an overclock, so controlling vdroop is very important.


----------



## darivo

hello mates.

im new on this forum (but i read you every day) and now with the new Digi+ from asus i have a question

i have now an unlocked 720BE (oced to x4 3.4 1.42vcore) paired with a MA-770T-ud3p from gigabyte (8+2 phases)

the Vdrop is killing me. on full load, i see the vcore drop from 1.42 to 1.40!!! i think its terrible and for this, im looking a new mobo upgrade.

Do you think will be a good option the new Asus (M5A97 evo or pro with 6+2 digi+VRM) or i need to move to the Gigabyte UD5 (8+2 but no LLC)????

6+2 DigiVRM will be ok for a unlocked and Oced AMD????

i will continue reading









thanks for a very interesting post!


----------



## reflex99

in history, anything labeled EVO is really not excellent for voltage regualtion. Since we haven't had any good reviews of any of the boards, i cannot really offer any other insight.

6+2 will be fine for about anything. Maybe if you wanna run like 1.8v, then you should consider something different.


----------



## darivo

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


in history, anything labeled EVO is really not excellent for voltage regualtion. Since we haven't had any good reviews of any of the boards, i cannot really offer any other insight.

6+2 will be fine for about anything. Maybe if you wanna run like 1.8v, then you should consider something different.



to be honest, 1.8v is little high for my Vendetta2









i only want to eliminate the MORTAL VDROP

you're right, i haven't see any trusted review of this new Phases... and this was my question.

in global terms of powers, is better a 990FX-UD3 or a M5a97 PRO (evo)???
M5a97 with new phases, could beat my old Ma770T-ud3p (8+2)??

i will wait for new reviews.

Thanks Reflex


----------



## Matas

M5A97 Evo review:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/M5A97_EVO/


----------



## Tator Tot

Dropping from 1.42 to 1.4 is most likely due to heat, do you have a Heatsink on the MA770T-UD3P ?

The Asus' board for the 900 Series line-up are really no different than the 800 (and some 700 Series) motherboards, so I would caution against upgrading to them.

The Sabertooth and Crosshair 990FX boards have shown to have Vdroop but LLC to counteract it, and it's not terrible Vdroop like the EVO Boards have.

My ultimate suggestion is to invest in a Heatsink for the MA770T-UD3P and then go from there.


----------



## darivo

Hi mate.

yes, i heatskined my VRM yet and vcore continues dropping


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *darivo*


Hi mate.

yes, i heatskined my VRM yet and vcore continues dropping


Well no board is perfect, so Vdroop will happen. a 20mv drop is not bad though.

Do you have a price range for a new board?


----------



## darivo

Oh i know the old Ma770t-ud3p isn't the best in the world, and 2 years ago it was at 80€!!!! (i think it was the best over the low profile market)

Now i haven't a price range defined, but i don't want to spend money for a board's features that i will never use.

I have a medium gamer system.
I never will go on Crossfire, and don't upgrade to bulldozer

i think i need a very stable and solid mainboard, which can unlock my CPU (like now)
But with better voltaje control to get my cpu stable in the Vcore (i can go to 3.6 with Vcore 1.42, but with 'casuals' droops, i dont want to set Vcore at 1.45 to be secure if the drop strikes)

Maybe i need to look at new gigabyte 990FX-ud5?; maybe wait some weeks to see the new Asrock and ECS or Biostar?

Thank you

PS: Matas thank you very much for this review, i will read it tomorrow


----------



## Tator Tot

AsRock will have a 990FX Extreme 4 out soon that should hit around $180 Mark (USD) or Gigabyte will have the 990FX-UD3 for $150 (USD)

They should be solid options for you.

Gigabyte should have a 970A-UD3 (a direct upgrade from your board) for ~$110 (USD) but it comes stock with a Heatsink now and Gigabyte's newer 8+2 Phase VRM design (only slightly different from what you have now.)


----------



## darivo

Hello All.

I had been reading the review of M5a97 from TPU and it seem a nice board.

but they didn't speak about Vdrop and Phases very much time...

also, i found in Xtremesystem Forums, a VERY NICE REVIEW of the new Gigabytes 990 series

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?272168-Gigabyte-990-boards-on-the-test-bed

as you can see, the Vcore in Bios isn't equal to the real Vcore, and while cpu is in heavy load (prime) Vcore drops too!!!
real Vcore: 1.565 idle
Set in bios: 1.525 set
under Heavy load: 1.486 Load

i know he used a very high OC, but i think is unacceptable in a high end board (990FX-ud7 is about 220€)

i think i will wait to ASrock, and then look the market (will be sabertooth a good choice?)


----------



## Tator Tot

It's impossible to negate Vdrop; more so because under load, a PSU's 12v voltage drops, then the VRM's have to take that into account and compensate, and then you have to factor in heat, resistance, and other electrical hindrances.


----------



## reflex99

it really isn't that terrible.

It is about average for high end amd boards.

If you really don't like it turn on LLC.....


----------



## voro12

Hi
IÂ´ve got an MSI 870A-G54, together with an X4 955 running at 4,1 GHz (VCore is 1,45). My graphics card is ASUS 6950 with unlocked shaders running at 1 GHz. My question is, should i decrease my clock a bit on my cpu and gpu, or can the motherboard handle it?


----------



## darivo

thanks all for the answers.

i think when you buy a high end board (about 200â‚¬) you cant see this drop and say "everything is OK"

i can assume that high load on +12 droops the Vcore, but i think LLC could be a good option to handle it.

guys,,, do you think LLC on asus boards works fine??

As Reflex says, LLC is the only option (right now)?

i never used this feature before


----------



## ronnin426850

GPU doesn't matter. Yes, I'd advise you to revert to stock volts untill you upgrade that mobo to something more reliable.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darivo;13893145*
> thanks all for the answers.
> 
> i think when you buy a high end board (about 200€) you cant see this drop and say "everything is OK"
> 
> i can assume that high load on +12 droops the Vcore, but i think LLC could be a good option to handle it.
> 
> guys,,, do you think LLC on asus boards works fine??
> 
> As Reflex says, LLC is the only option (right now)?
> 
> i never used this feature before


Well like I said, everyone has Vdroop, it's just to different degrees.

A board at that price mark with a .5v droop would be considered "bad" (but only for that price bracket)
On the other hand, if it can be corrected with LLC, then there's nothing really bad about it.

LLC was made to combat Vdroop.


----------



## reflex99

but ironically Vdroop is part of AMD/Intel spec, purposely designed to be there.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;13896291*
> but ironically Vdroop is part of AMD/Intel spec, purposely designed to be there.


It's only part of the Intel design spec, not the official AMD Design spec. Board makers (since Intel is the big dog, and doing re-designs is a pain) just include it on all boards so they don't have to spend money redesigning power circuits to eliminate Vdroop as much as possible.


----------



## reflex99

the concept remains the same >.>


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;13896966*
> the concept remains the same >.>


The point is that AMD doesn't say in it's design spec to use Vdroop; so no, the concept is not really the same. It's just a lazy attribute of board makers.


----------



## reflex99

maximizing profits like any business.


----------



## darivo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot;13896940*
> It's only part of the Intel design spec, not the official AMD Design spec. Board makers (since Intel is the big dog, and doing re-designs is a pain) just include it on all boards so they don't have to spend money redesigning power circuits to eliminate Vdroop as much as possible.


very good discussion here.

Can we say that all designs are 'obsolete', except the new ASUS LLC?


----------



## ronnin426850

Tot, I wish I could rep you. But since I can't, here's an online candy:


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darivo;13897902*
> very good discussion here.
> 
> Can we say that all designs are 'obsolete', except the new ASUS LLC?


Asus, Gigabyte, ECS, Foxconn, AsRock, & Biostar all have LLC.

It's not a new invention. It just depends on the Board/BIOS if they include it or not.


----------



## XPD541

Added my Foxcon Destroyer to the GoogleDocs list.... could not find much info on it. :/

DOES have 8-phase though....8+1 or 8+2 though, is anyone's guess. :/


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XPD541;13948084*
> Added my Foxcon Destroyer to the GoogleDocs list.... could not find much info on it. :/
> 
> DOES have 8-phase though....8+1 or 8+2 though, is anyone's guess. :/


It's only 4+1, but it can handle 140w TDP chips without fail


----------



## reflex99

I think i already had it on the sheet


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darivo;13897902*
> very good discussion here.
> 
> Can we say that all designs are 'obsolete', except the new ASUS LLC?


Actually, the ASUS LLC has a drawback - it causes voltage flugtuations.


----------



## EvoBeardy

Any of you kind people mind shedding some light into this for me at all?

Took a snap of my Mobo, the NIKOS are just above the Southbridge, the others that I have no idea what company are from, are just above the MOSFET cooler in the VRM, I'm assuming these are the ones for the RAM?

Now I'm pretty sure in my research, have seen these same Transistors under the MOSFET heatsink on either my Mobo, or a similar one that Reflex said was similar (NF980?).
I've also heard of MSI using NIKOS on unimportant area's and other ones for the important area's.
I have Version 1.2 of the Mobo, and I was hoping that meant something, Tator previously stated his one ran NIKOS, but I wanted to dig a little.









I'd take off the heatsink and check first-hand, but I dunno what to replace the thermal strip with. :S
(any pointers to that would be appreciated)


----------



## xd_1771

NIKOS can be fine when used on unimportant areas. On many of the lower-end boards (i.e. anything that is not DrMOS) NIKOS is used on the CPU VRMs, this is very dangerous.
I think if it's a thermal pad connecting the VRM heatsink, it can be reused. Might want to clarify at Air Cooling forums though.


----------



## EvoBeardy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;13969479*
> NIKOS can be fine when used on unimportant areas. On many of the lower-end boards (i.e. anything that is not DrMOS) NIKOS is used on the CPU VRMs, this is very dangerous.
> I think if it's a thermal pad connecting the VRM heatsink, it can be reused. Might want to clarify at Air Cooling forums though.


Do you know who (ON) are? I can't seem to find any information on them or specs.
I know I won't know for certain what MOSFET's supplying the CPU power are until I remove the HS, but I've seen this same (ON) MOSFET layout under the VRM HS when I was trying to find out more about my board, I didn't bookmark the page for some reason, but someone had stripped the HS and it had these all there, can't confirm if it was my Mobo or one that was sharing the same layout.

Seeing as they're used in the +1 phase, would it be safe to assume they could possibly be supplying the CPU power aswell?
I've only read of ON being used a Driver MOSFET here: -http://www.overclock.net/amd-motherboards/959289-cpu-vrm-mosfets-transistor-discussion.html (7th paragraph down).

I'm slowly trying to learn more about MOSFET's, as it's intrigues me greatly, and they are an extremely important part of the system, by all accounts.
You'll have to forgive my ignorance, I'm trying to find out more.









Thanks for the reply so far.









*EDIT:-* Okay, when I Googled "ON Semiconductor", I didn't get anything apart from things with "on" in it, lol. Just found them via _datasheetcatalog.net_, (previous searches for top semiconductor companies didn't go well finding this one, lol)

The only numbers on the MOSFET's are _933_, _48_ and _0ENG_ or _OENG_. Trying to find out more, but I don't really seem to be getting anywhere with what's imprinted.


----------



## xd_1771

That "+1" phase supplies the power to the integrated memory controller, not the CPU.

I think "(ON)" mosfets simply refer to the traditional type of MOSFET chip and transistor supply/clean design, i.e. (ON) MOSFETs as contrasted to Driver MOSFETs. I'm not entirely sure though.


----------



## EvoBeardy

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


That "+1" phase supplies the power to the integrated memory controller, not the CPU.

I think "(ON)" mosfets simply refer to the traditional type of MOSFET chip and transistor supply/clean design, i.e. (ON) MOSFETs as contrasted to Driver MOSFETs. I'm not entirely sure though.


Yeah I wasn't ever sure if the "+" phases supplied power to the IMC itself or if it went to the DIMM's in some stupidly long way, seems I read something that threw me off the IMC for some reason, thanks for clearing that up.









I saw something about RDS(on) chips tonight aswell, and the different types of MOSFETs (much more to it than I realised).
I can't find any part numbers within ON Semiconductors listings that correlate to the ones in the left picture. Flipping it upside-down, I seem to make "09NQ" possibly, but I'm closing in on a huge wall of tired right now.


----------



## Tator Tot

The 785GT-E63 is all NIKOS under the MOSFET Heatsink.


----------



## Dromihetes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EvoBeardy;13969710*
> Do you know who (ON) are? I can't seem to find any information on them or specs..


It s a taiwanese brand if i m not mistaking ,but info on their mosfets is very scarce ,as for Nikos mosfets.
Anyway only Nikos mosfets are seen to blow up around the internets ,so the ON ones may be decent for their stated specifications.
Nikos mosfets fail often to behave in conformity with their data sheets specs.Maybe manufacturing issues.


----------



## darivo

hello

which MoBo can deliver the most stable Vcore??

i´m reading a lot about Asrock, and their 890/990 Fx series.... what´s your opinion about this???

continue reading.... thanks!


----------



## Tator Tot

The 890FX Deluxe 5 / 990FX Extreme 4 are essentially the same boards.

It's a solid design and Vcore is pretty stable, but the new 990FX boards haven't been test yet though. So we don't know from them yet really.


----------



## darivo

TY Tot

i'm looking differents models of the 890 Mobo, what's is the diference between 890 Deluxe 3, 4 and 5??? (i think only deluxe 5 can handle AM3+...).
I read in the 890Fx asrock's manual that there is an option about LLC, but in one review, the writer says this about:
"In general, the board tends to overvolt vCore under load by 0.04V with ensuing 0.02V or so vDroop. For example, when we set the vCore to 1.40V, the CPU received about 1.44V when the load is light (e.g. a single Super Pi instance), but when all 6 cores were loaded fully we measured about 1.42V. Once the CPU was idle and C1E kicked in, the board lowered the vCore below 1.20V accordingly.

Unfortunately, we found neither the BIOS reading nor Windows-based software including ASRock's own OC Tuner utility correctly informs us of the actual amount of current the CPU receives. To make matters worse, the BIOS labels referring to vDroop control are highly misleading. The BIOS offers four options under "Load-line Calibration" section: Auto, Normal, Slight, Disable. We advise you to stick to "Normal" if you overclock, and to "Auto" for stock operation with TurboCore enabled, since the other two options will take your CPU to a voltage rollercoaster. "Normal" was also the most predictive of all as we exampled above, so without reliable software readings it is the only option we would take when overclocking an X6 CPU."

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3877/asrock-890fx-deluxe-full-review-and-an-investigation-of-thuban-performance-scaling/5

Thank all

PS: i'm reading in the Gigabyte GA-990FXA-Series Owners Thread/Club user who have differences in Vcore Between load and idle states.....


----------



## Tator Tot

As I've said in this thread before, almost all boards have Vdroop; it just varies between the degree.

The AsRock 890FX Deluxe 4 and 5 are the same board, but the 5 has AM3+ Support.

The AsRock 890FX Deluxe 3 is the oldest model of the board; it's got a few minor electrical differences from the Deluxe 4 (they basically made the 4 for the same performance as the 3, but cheaper to make.)

For Anandtech's review, I can say that I never had an issue navigating the UEFI. You'll really only have an issue if you don't have common sense.
As for the Vdroop + Vraise it's not as bad on the newer BIOS. You'll still drop by about 0.01v-0.02v
The increase shouldn't be more than 0.01v any more Which is solid for any high end board.

Even +/- 0.02v change isn't bad at all.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Dromihetes*


It s a taiwanese brand if i m not mistaking ,but info on their mosfets is very scarce ,as for Nikos mosfets.
Anyway only Nikos mosfets are seen to blow up around the internets ,so the ON ones may be decent for their stated specifications.
Nikos mosfets fail often to behave in conformity with their data sheets specs.Maybe manufacturing issues.


(on) is not a brand really. That is like saying that radial tires are a brand.


----------



## el gappo

Why is everything that's not an asus covered in red and can't OC?

POPYCOCK.

I had that NO OCC TA870+ board prime 95 stable at 4.6ghz for an entire day with no additional cooling. 
In fact... that board held several overclocking world records on AMD for quite a while.
http://namegt.com/tag/TA870+

No OC on the TA785 boards is also clearly a joke. Probably THE best overclocking am2+ boards available. http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=1560374


----------



## xd_1771

I was about to chime in on that. Gappo has experience and is concerned that we may not be very well considering transistor amp ratings for this list. Indeed, some changes will need to be made.

We consider this list mostly based on SAFETY and common sense for ability for the regular user. ASUS boards regularly feature VRM throttling protection as a regular feature of the PWM controller microchip, thus they are nominally safer to use. We currently do not have that much proof if this is present on motherboards by other brands.


----------



## winginit

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


Why is everything that's not an asus covered in red and can't OC?

POPYCOCK.

I had that NO OCC TA870+ board prime 95 stable at 4.6ghz for an entire day with no additional cooling. 
In fact... that board held several overclocking world records on AMD for quite a while.
http://namegt.com/tag/TA870+

No OC on the TA785 boards is also clearly a joke. Probably THE best overclocking am2+ boards available. http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=1560374


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


Why is everything that's not an asus covered in red and can't OC?

POPYCOCK.

I had that NO OCC TA870+ board prime 95 stable at 4.6ghz for an entire day with no additional cooling. 
In fact... that board held several overclocking world records on AMD for quite a while.
http://namegt.com/tag/TA870+

No OC on the TA785 boards is also clearly a joke. Probably THE best overclocking am2+ boards available. http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=1560374


don't blame me....Xd did most all of the "recommendations"










I was thinking though. Maybe a different rating system. Something like:

Good
decent
bad
NO OC

Instead of all the TDP and stuff.


----------



## el gappo

My advice would be to remove the recommendations and avoid making blanket statements with red ink and leave users to decide by adding datasheets for fets where available.

Save the red ink for warnings on problem boards *cough msi cough*


----------



## xd_1771

Actually reflex I find you're right, using the TDP as a measuring factor can actually add to confusion sometimes.
Perhaps a combination of what you say and heightened use of the "notes" section (i.e. to tell whether the board has what issues such as vDroop or what failure rate)


----------



## reflex99

Ill probably work on it later, don't really have time right now.


----------



## xd_1771

I have to be out today also. Picking up a set of Micron D9s on Craigslist today for uber cheap







that and I'm volunteering at a fair a few blocks north of me


----------



## tdbone1

is it possible to replace my VRM`s on my motherboard with a better quality VRM`s?

board in in my specs


----------



## reflex99

no, unless you are a soldering ninja, hellva good bios writer, and an electrical engineer.


----------



## mxthunder

http://www.masterslair.com/364/vdroop-and-load-line-calibration-is-vdroop-really-bad/

what do you guys think about that article ?


----------



## sid0972

is this motherboard good and stable for moderate overclocking?>

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-646-_-Product


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sid0972*


is this motherboard good and stable for moderate overclocking?>

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-646-_-Product


Yeah, but it has some heavy vdroop at high loads.


----------



## abu46

i have been using asus m4a87td evo since december
reading from the spreadsheet it uses nikos mosfets

should i replace it asap??


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *abu46*


i have been using asus m4a87td evo since december
reading from the spreadsheet it uses nikos mosfets

should i replace it asap??


Get some Heatsinks and slap them on the VRM's.

Don't worry about the NIKOS on those guys, they should be fine.


----------



## abu46

thanks
can you suggest me some good ones for my board


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *abu46;14219287*
> thanks
> can you suggest me some good ones for my board


MOS-C1's


----------



## sid0972

i bought this asus m4a88td-v evo couple of days ago, and when i power it on,it refuses to boot, and after many frustrating attempts it boots
fan and everything spins, it just doesnt give display
i have tried everything, tried without video card, changed memory slots,tried on board video, HDDs and everything is working fine
but there is one thing, RAM is incompatible, i mean, not in the qualified vendors list

is ASUS very picky with RAM?
shall i change to a qualified one?


----------



## Gyro

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sid0972*


i bought this asus m4a88td-v evo couple of days ago, and when i power it on,it refuses to boot, and after many frustrating attempts it boots
fan and everything spins, it just doesnt give display
i have tried everything, tried without video card, changed memory slots,tried on board video, HDDs and everything is working fine
but there is one thing, RAM is incompatible, i mean, not in the qualified vendors list

is ASUS very picky with RAM?
shall i change to a qualified one?



Have you tried the mem ok function?

Good luck

Gyro


----------



## sid0972

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Gyro*


Have you tried the mem ok function?

Good luck

Gyro


ya i did, the problem is the memok red led doesnt glow when it doesnt boot

but when it gloes for a second, it boots
and when i push the button for 1-2 sec, it keeps blinking and nothing happens


----------



## Gyro

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sid0972*


ya i did, the problem is the memok red led doesnt glow when it doesnt boot

but when it gloes for a second, it boots
and when i push the button for 1-2 sec, it keeps blinking and nothing happens


How long did you let it blink?
The blinking means it's searching for failsafe settings.

Gyro


----------



## sid0972

the scenario is this
what should happen under a normal start is, the memok LED should glow for 1-2 seconds, and computer should boot

but in my case, it never glows, and everything else just keep spinning, fans and hdd etc

and when i press memok switch, it keeps blinking forever
and from the manual, when it blinks, the computer should restart several times till the time correct memory timings are found
but it never starts


----------



## Gyro

I just noticed you have mixed ram, have you tried with just one set or the other,or even just one stick.

Do you get a beep/s at boot?

Gyro


----------



## sid0972

yes,if it boots, it boots only with corsair ram


----------



## darivo

are the 12 phases a new story on AMD history???

well, we can speak about new ASrock Fatality 990...
http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.as...20Professional

Premium Gold Caps (2.5 x longer life time), 100% Japan-made high-quality Conductive Polymer Capacitors
* Digital PWM Design, Advanced V12 + 2 Power Phase Design*
Supports Dual Channel DDR3 2100(OC)
Supports AMD Quad CrossFireXâ„¢, 3-Way CrossFireXâ„¢ and CrossFireXâ„¢
Supports NVIDIAÂ® Quad SLIâ„¢ and SLIâ„¢
Dual PCIE GLAN with Teaming function
Dr. Debug, Smart Switch Design: Power/Reset/Clear CMOS Switch with LED
Supports Fatal1ty XFast USB, XFast LAN technologies, Graphical UEFI
Supports Fatal1ty F-Stream, On/Off Play Technology, Turbo UCC
7.1 CH HD Audio with Content Protection (Realtek ALC892 Audio Codec), Supports THX TruStudioâ„¢
Free Bundle : 1 x 3.5mm Audio Cable, 1 x Front USB 3.0 Panel, CyberLink MediaEspresso 6.5 Trial

waiting for more info and reviews!


----------



## xd_1771

Yes I have noticed that the ASRock Fatality 990 has the largest power phase count of any AMD motherboard out there


----------



## Tator Tot

The 12 phases are not actually a new story, just new to a retail board.

It's still a branch off the standard 4+1 Phase design

In this case it's (4+1)+(4+1)+4


----------



## vladsinger

Any one know of any really good mATX AM3+ boards in the works? I haven't seen any with heatsinks on the VRMs, etc.
It's annoying because there's quite a few on the Intel side with X58 chipsets like the Asus * Gene and the evga X58 Sli Micro. 
Only the Biostar TA890GXE appears to have solid power phases in the AM3 generation, but I don't think Biostar has announced any updates yet.

I'm planning to upgrade my mobo first so I can OC my 1055T without fear of my mobo bursting into flames, and upgrade to Bulldozer later at my convenience.


----------



## raisethe3

Funny, you should go over the asusrog.com and tell them that. I even tried to get people to vote for making an AMD ROG mATX board. But you know, Intel always get the most attention. That's how it is.

http://www.asusrog.com/forums/showth...E-and-Formula-!

Quote:



Originally Posted by *vladsinger*


Any one know of any really good mATX AM3+ boards in the works? I haven't seen any with heatsinks on the VRMs, etc.
*It's annoying because there's quite a few on the Intel side with X58 chipsets like the Asus * Gene and the evga X58 Sli Micro. *
Only the Biostar TA890GXE appears to have solid power phases in the AM3 generation, but I don't think Biostar has announced any updates yet.

I'm planning to upgrade my mobo first so I can OC my 1055T without fear of my mobo bursting into flames, and upgrade to Bulldozer later at my convenience.


----------



## vladsinger

Okay, done. Let's hope we get something good.


----------



## cdoublejj

So i see no intel vrm list yet at least nothing in the search lit for "intel vrm list"
I was wondering what an ASUS PQ-EM had for phase/VRM count. Also since i see no intel list i wouldn't mind helping out possibly if it requires any pictures or vrm counting, the shop i work at sells almost exclusively Intel/asus. I wasn't sure if guys got the info from looking at the boards or what i know the spec pages don't usually list the vrm count.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj;14369119*
> So i see no intel vrm list yet at least nothing in the search lit for "intel vrm list"
> I was wondering what an ASUS PQ-EM had for phase/VRM count. Also since i see no intel list i wouldn't mind helping out possibly if it requires any pictures or vrm counting, the shop i work at sells almost exclusively Intel/asus. I wasn't sure if guys got the info from looking at the boards or what i know the spec pages don't usually list the vrm count.


It's a 4phase board.


----------



## cdoublejj

Thankx my friend installed some zalman ram sinks on the VRMs before installed the q6600 and it defiantly OCed. both the VRMs and the north bridge are rather hot was thinking we could riga tiny fan on VRMs and install a heat pipe tower cooler on the north bridge.

I was also wondering about the BIOSTAR G31-M4 478? It doesn't appear to have much meat on it as far as VRMs but, i hear they use quality transistors.


----------



## linkin93

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*


Thankx my friend installed some zalman ram sinks on the VRMs before installed the q6600 and it *defiantly* OCed. both the VRMs and the north bridge are rather hot was thinking we could riga tiny fan on VRMs and install a heat pipe tower cooler on the north bridge.

I was also wondering about the BIOSTAR G31-M4 478? It doesn't appear to have much meat on it as far as VRMs but, i hear they use quality transistors.


De-FINITE-ly

not Defiantly or Definately










Either that or it was defiant to OC


----------



## 96shox

Hey, my board, ASRock 880gm-le is one of the few ASRock boards that has VRM protection, but it is not throttling, just Shutdown. Im purely using this list for the info so I hope its accurate.

Does this mean I can pretty much run my pII x4 and OC a little without loss of performance? 
How do you know if your cpu is being throttled?


----------



## xd_1771

You might not get a loss of performance.... but you might get a random shutdown in the middle of a high load, resulting in loss of saved work.
3+1 phase not meant for quad core with ASRock, and this has been proven by someone else with experience on this board (the person who initially reported the random shutdown occurence).
I suggest you run as a dual or triple core with limited to no OC. The fact that you're running a Hyper 212+ just makes it more likely for the VRMs to get very hot.


----------



## iZZ

I'm proud to have the only decent overclocking AM2+ mobo in that list


----------



## Aryus

Hello, new to this forum ^^

can i ask something??? because something happened, i have an urge to downgrade my motherboard from TA890fxe to TA870+ rev5.2, is it a wise idea??? because I'm still use athlon x4 and I have plans for the future to upgrade to phenom x6 after bulldozer release because my budget kinda tight (will OC it to 4Ghz only no more)

thanks...


----------



## el gappo

There's nothing wrong with the board but I don't really see the point of downgrading, its only a small $$ difference isn't it?


----------



## Aryus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *el gappo;14486651*
> There's nothing wrong with the board but I don't really see the point of downgrading, its only a small $$ difference isn't it?


the difference in my place is $45 between that boards
my senior in overclocking tell me that although TA890FXE have much better component, processor performance is more easily withdrawn by ta870+ and I'm curious to test that (in the end my curiosity beats me)

after seeing the list, is low rds are a must to have to ensure CPU stability with voltage??? and the transistor in 870+ is colored by orange color, is it for us to be cautious with it??? (so I don't mess with my OC too much)

and I don't plan to add 2nd GPU in my rig, so extra pcie x16 is completely wasted
suggestion open, thanks... (still much to be learned in my age)


----------



## xd_1771

I wouldn't worry about low RDS or not; I may be revising the low RDS (on) spec sheet when I have a look at it, it seems what I read in another article about 4-legged FETS being low RDS may not necessarily be true, and I'm going to have to look at a lot of spec sheets.... but I haven't much time for it.

The third transistor as driver design I might worry about, for it seems that a lot of problematic MSIs and even some problematic Gigabytes suffer due to improper driver size (no proper driver chips), but your CPU is an Athlon II x4 at 1.42V... i wouldn't expect it to be as much a power hog as most Phenom IIs. You should be fine.


----------



## reflex99

So i am *strongly* considering removing the "we recommend" section

It is really arbitrary, and doesn't really do much.

I propose it *could* be replaced with a "recommended board" collumn. Basically this would indicate a board that one of us, a community member, or a reputable review would recommend.

So boards with unimpressive VRMs would have nothing in this box, and boards with better setups would have something there.

Thoughts?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;14566941*
> So i am *strongly* considering removing the "we recommend" section
> 
> It is really arbitrary, and doesn't really do much.
> 
> I propose it *could* be replaced with a "recommended board" collumn. Basically this would indicate a board that one of us, a community member, or a reputable review would recommend.
> 
> So boards with unimpressive VRMs would have nothing in this box, and boards with better setups would have something there.
> 
> Thoughts?


I think its a good idea


----------



## reflex99

ok, one person agrees!

Woot! time to redo some stuff!


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;14569405*
> ok, one person agrees!
> 
> Woot! time to redo some stuff!


Majority roll, eh?


----------



## reflex99

anyways, done now, I think this is better.

I didn't do the AM2+ sheet because....I don't know enough about most of those boards.


----------



## el gappo

Had a go with this board the other day, really wasn't feeling it, bios is locked out at 131 bclk







And getting there is a struggle. Will push on and try again today.










4 per phase apart from the cpu-nb phase, I don't think that will pose much of an issue but..










That heastink being screwed on so tight the end fets are on bare metal having ripped the thermal tape and the rest not making contact might do.









Nikos p0903bd + nikos p0603bd believe they are 50 and 75amp respectively.

A75MA-G55


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*












Holy cow..







Who puts those things together?? My brother can do better.


----------



## xd_1771

If you noticed I updated a bunch yesterday. The ASUS AM2+ portion is pretty much complete and the "low RDS" portion operates on a pretty much "yes only" basis until more spec sheets are read.

I noticed the changes on the "we recommend", I find that section to be a bit vague and not very informative. I would rather it be replaced with a "known for problems" column, with yes applying to the boards known for problems. Or have that alongside the "we recommend" column. I am testing this out in the MSI and Gigabyte AM3 motherboards list. The section should be complemented with a "note 4": Note that VRM failures are usually known only to occur on CPUs that have higher TDP or approach the rated TDP limit of the motherboard.

I'm also testing out the "conditional formatting" feature so that we can type in the text and it will automatically conform to a specific colour.

Might also want to have a look at this post on MSI forums. Apparently MSI is aware of the issue and telling users to refer to CPU support lists of similar motherboards in a lineup, however have not updated the actual CPU support list on the website...


----------



## el gappo




----------



## Kasp1js

Just reporting in,

Been running an unlocked x2 555 @ 3.8Ghz 1.51v with my 760GM-E51 for a month or so without issues( the board is a poor overclocker though), but I have added the stock AMD fan on the top of the vrm mosfets.

No fireworks, yet.


----------



## AMD_logic

Hi, could anyone of the vrm experts help me in this thread..

http://www.overclock.net/amd-motherb...lari-asus.html

Wanted to know if the Asus M4A87TD/USB3 will be good for my pII x4 955 be. Nothing was mentioned in the "Recommended" column..


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *AMD_logic*


Hi, could anyone of the vrm experts help me in this thread..

http://www.overclock.net/amd-motherb...lari-asus.html

Wanted to know if the Asus M4A87TD/USB3 will be good for my pII x4 955 be. Nothing was mentioned in the "Recommended" column..


Yes, it'll be ok. Still, it's 4+1, so make sure you have some air blowing at those fets or aftermarket mosfet cooling


----------



## reflex99

quote myself.....like a boss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;14590660*
> It's not bad at all. It's just that for the same price, you can get the 87TD EVO, which is a better board.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131647


----------



## AMD_logic

Thanks.. will think abt the aftermarket coolers if at all I plan to OC..!

now just to avoid double posting.. I shall continue this in the original thread here http://www.overclock.net/amd-motherb...lari-asus.html

oops: Guess its better to discuss here itself then ?

How would one compare this GA-880GA-UD3H to the Asus M4A87TD/usb3 ..


----------



## xd_1771

^ They use similar high quality 4+1 VRM designs, albeit without cooling. Note that the 870 chipset board is likely to OC better simply because of chipset (IGP chipset boards often don't OC as well).


----------



## Deathclaw

i'd like to add that i have m2n-e with phenomII 945 quad core, i did overclock it to 3.7ghz
but keep it at stock since i too wouldn't recommend ocing, because i was watching vrm's get heated with that clock, and they are warm at stock, so quad core is fine but no overclock recommended from me


----------



## xd_1771

Is your 945 the 95W or 125W?
Does the M2N-E have all 4 chokes installed or just 3?
Both have effect on VRM temperature/current capability.


----------



## Deathclaw

945 is 95W
only 3 chokes installed
it's running for over a year now with that setup


----------



## xd_1771

95W TDP is fine, though 3 phase VRM would be very constrained in current output capability vs the full 4 phase version and it would not be able to provide as much current. I'm really curious as to why ASUS released an M2N-E with only 3 phase VRM without even marking it as a different revision too....

You have never noticed any CPU throttling during 100% load, even if CPU temps happen to be low?


----------



## MightyMission

Hey guys!
Good works your doing here.
I added some info's on a couple of mobo's using google spreadhseet but they havent been added to the list?
Most notable was some sapphire am3 boards that came in 2 revisions,the first being awful by all accounts,though well sorted in regulation and cooling,and the second being a monster that had a bios to back up the electronic specs.


----------



## reflex99

The form doesn't add them to the public lists, it sends the info to another sheet that only xd and I can see. Sometimes we forget to check.....


----------



## Deathclaw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;14612652*
> 95W TDP is fine, though 3 phase VRM would be very constrained in current output capability vs the full 4 phase version and it would not be able to provide as much current. I'm really curious as to why ASUS released an M2N-E with only 3 phase VRM without even marking it as a different revision too....
> 
> You have never noticed any CPU throttling during 100% load, even if CPU temps happen to be low?


I'm pretty happy with it still, since the board is actually am2 design, and it is working in my current pc for over 5 years and it's done it's job.
All other components have been changed for upgrade reasons.

I haven't noticed any cpu throttling with 100% load, temps are good because of a good cpu cooler, but before that, on stock cooling (which i used only for a few days before getting this cooler) the temps were pretty high.
So i'd say that it's working as it should.

As for overclocking, i haven't been running it overclocked for long times, mostly because those vrm's are hot to begin with.
But overclocked at 3.5 which is perfectly stable and 3.7 which i achieved but haven't thoroughly tested did give performance boost in some games and benchmarks i tested, so i would say that there is no throttling down.


----------



## 96shox

I just got some copper heatsinks (need to cut them to size)








And I want to put them on any component that could benefit from it, especially the VRM.

Could someone specify where the VRMs (same as MOSFET??) are?


----------



## Tator Tot

MOSFET's are a specific type of part.

VRM is a generic name for something that regulated the voltage.

So the VRM's are the same as the MOSFETs in this case.


----------



## reflex99

marked in red the ones you should sink










if you have extra copper, you can sink the ones to the right of the ram slots, but it isn't necessary.


----------



## ronnin426850

Asrock is making it pretty hard to heatsink them fets, eh?..


----------



## BWG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *96shox;14619290*
> I just got some copper heatsinks (need to cut them to size)


How much were those things and where did you get them? I have never seen them before.


----------



## 96shox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;14619541*
> marked in red the ones you should sink
> 
> if you have extra copper, you can sink the ones to the right of the ram slots, but it isn't necessary.


Thank you, just what I was looking for..and Yes I should have extra so I will also put them on the pieces that look like the ones you highlighted but are near the ram.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BWG;14619841*
> How much were those things and where did you get them? I have never seen them before.


I got them from ebay for under $5 shipped








copper heatsink
another kind
copper ram heat spreader


----------



## BWG

Dang! Let me know how well they work for you. Now that's a low price!!


----------



## 96shox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BWG;14621710*
> Dang! Let me know how well they work for you. Now that's a low price!!


If I can manage cutting them down, I think they should do the job great, especially if I double up and put a heatsink on top of another.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *96shox;14624385*
> If I can manage cutting them down, I think they should do the job great, especially if I double up and put a heatsink on top of another.


I don't really think this is a good idea.. Small contact surface between bottom and top sink, no airflow at bottom sink, where it matters...


----------



## 1nstant

what does that mean ?
its on the msi http://www.overclock.net/amd-motherboards/946407-amd-motherboard-vrm-information-list.html

on the msi 990FXA-GD80


----------



## stupidcha

simply put, MSI boards aren't that great. thus that comment.

there are better boards out there. MSI can be seen as entry level thus can do entry level OC and such.


----------



## MightyMission

swiftech do some taller sinks and they recommend using pliers to cut them to shape/size,
i got a bunch of them on both my 470s and the flatter areas of the motherboards heatpipe assembly.
They do workon the 470s though they have the benefit of an intake fan blowing over them,
those short sinks will help but i think i'd rather something obstructive to airflow so you know they will have a fighting chance of dissipating some heat.
http://cdn2.specialtech.co.uk/spshop/files/detail/MC14.gif


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:



Originally Posted by *1nstant*


what does that mean ? 
its on the msi http://www.overclock.net/amd-motherb...tion-list.html

on the msi 990FXA-GD80


I have moved this into the main AMD Motherboard VRM Info thread.
It is common that DrMOS derived boards (regardless of brand) are more fragile and can fail under duress when used with extreme voltage (i.e. 1.8V under extreme cooling) - at least, this is true on the Intel side. For normal air cooling or even watercooling (as a reference I use 1.6V) these boards would be fine.


----------



## reflex99

Has gappo actually killed a GD80 yet? or are we blindly guessing again?

Quote:



Originally Posted by *stupidcha*


simply put, MSI boards aren't that great. thus that comment.

there are better boards out there. MSI can be seen as entry level thus can do entry level OC and such.


this is 100% fallse....

I present exhibit A:
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=1567243

I'd like to see entry level boards do that.


----------



## el gappo

I don't even own a gd80


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


Has gappo actually killed a GD80 yet? or are we blindly guessing again?

this is 100% fallse....

I present exhibit A:
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=1567243

I'd like to see entry level boards do that.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *el gappo*


I don't even own a gd80










in skype XD was all like

gappo says that drmos is bad because he killed boards.

care to elaborate?


----------



## el gappo

You dont need me to tell you, look at your chart


----------



## 96shox

Reflex99 I have a question for you,
My board, the 880gm-le is one of the few am3 ASRock boards that has VRM protection, in my case, shutdown.

First, I dont want to undermine your hard work but this is 100% accurate, right?

Secondly, if this is the case, I shouldn't be in any danger of frying/blowing up because my system will just shut down if temps get too high, right?

If that is the case, that means there is VRM temperature monitoring, correct?


----------



## reflex99

1. XD has done most of the research on protection

2. If it gets to the point where it has to shut down, it was probably overstressed anyways = not good.

realistically though, it shouldnt be a problem with your processor if you point a fan or something at them


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stupidcha;14626893*
> simply put, MSI boards aren't that great. thus that comment.
> 
> there are better boards out there. MSI can be seen as entry level thus can do entry level OC and such.


not always, with a quad and tri cores intel or AMD i would not suggest any OCing. popped 3 LGA775 boards in a row. 3 dead boards in row with barley any OC at all.


----------



## 96shox

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


1. XD has done most of the research on protection

2. If it gets to the point where it has to shut down, it was probably overstressed anyways = not good.

realistically though, it shouldnt be a problem with your processor if you point a fan or something at them


really? That's good to hear, I figured since my board is not even heatsinked and I have an unlocked and slightly overclocked quad I was stressing it. HWMon shows 160w TDP, but who really knows








Thanks.


----------



## reflex99

again, this is all a rough guess, but in general we don't hear a whole lot about ASRock boards failing. They are currently the number three board manufacturer in the world, so that means that people are buying them.

proceed with caution, don't go too nuts


----------



## xd_1771

The shutdown thermal protection issue on the 880GM-LE was something reported and confirmed by another user. It seems to be present on most ASRock boards of this generation. The fact that you run Hyper 212+ means the VRMs (a limited 3+1 phase) don't even get cooling.... this is a pretty risky situation to be in.

ccdoublejj seems like a trend going on here. What particular board?


----------



## vladsinger

Typo in the AM3+ tables >> "Sapphire".


----------



## soupsayer

Does anyone have any suggestions for fan(s) and mounting tips to point down on the mosfets. My rear case fan is directly over the mosfets, mounted vertically relative to the mosfets and is blowing out. The power supply fan is also blowing out and vertical, 90 degrees from the rear case fan (top of case mount power supply location)

And then of course is the CPU fan. With all these competing fans on three sides of the mosfets, I would think I'd need to mount the mosfet fan lower than all those other fans, making it fairly close to the mosfets, and also a small diameter, maybe 60mm range (or two 60mm side-by-side) in order for it to fit down there.

But it would seem tricky to mount these to anything stable. The only mounts I can see are maybe the top of the i/o ports, or maybe off the cpu fan frame.


----------



## xd_1771

Proper MOSFET cooling would best be actually be blowing onto the MOSFETs, not over it. Otherwise airflow may not be proper.


----------



## BWG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *soupsayer*


Does anyone have any suggestions for fan(s) and mounting tips to point down on the mosfets. My rear case fan is directly over the mosfets, mounted vertically relative to the mosfets and is blowing out. The power supply fan is also blowing out and vertical, 90 degrees from the rear case fan (top of case mount power supply location)

And then of course is the CPU fan. With all these competing fans on three sides of the mosfets, I would think I'd need to mount the mosfet fan lower than all those other fans, making it fairly close to the mosfets, and also a small diameter, maybe 60mm range (or two 60mm side-by-side) in order for it to fit down there.

But it would seem tricky to mount these to anything stable. The only mounts I can see are maybe the top of the i/o ports, or maybe off the cpu fan frame.


I had a pretty nice concept I built for my 785G board, but upgraded my board a few weeks later. I just took a thin piece of cardboard from a gpu box, painted it, and then mounted it 3/4 of the way down my CPU heatsinks exaust fan. This captured some of the 120mm fans air and diverted it directly onto the MOSFETS. I folded the sides of the cardboard and used 3M 2 sided clear sticky pads to mount it on the sides of the 120mm fan. I had to add some super glue on the cardboard side I stuck it too because it would not stick good enough to the paint.

It was a free mod that helped, at least I think it did.









EDIT: I also had to add a piece of wire to the middle and wrapped it around the fan bar.


----------



## Mysticality

Don't know if it says much; but got a Foxconn A79A-S running a PhII X4 955BE @ 3.8GHz. Have had it at 4.1GHz unstable. System locked up and my ZM-MFC2 showed total system usage in excess of 500W.
To think of it another way, as I sit here and type this the CPU is throttled back to 800MHz/0.98v and total system usage is roughly 180W.
Prime95 max power 3.8GHz/1.44v is 350W.

All numbers not including GPU which runs on seperate curcuit.

EDIT: Forgot to mention C2 stepping on the PhII 955.
Also have had a Ph9950BE on this exact same board; same cooling etc (system only just starting to go through major changes thanks to Bulldozer coming soon) running at 3.35GHz; 1.425v.
I only remember the numbers cause I just updated my OCN sig rig. Hadn't touched my account since '09. -facepalm-


----------



## vicciu

I also have an 880GM-LE and I have 2 questions.
1. Aproximatively at how many Watts or Amps the OverCurrentProtection will shut down the PC
2. An unlocked athlon II x3 uses more power than an x4? I ask this because both x3's and x4's have 95W TDP's
My CPU is Athlon II x3 435

Thanks in advance


----------



## reflex99

TDP is the ABSOLUTE maximum heat output of the proc.

It likely produces much less heat/uses less energy.

Unlocked X3 may be a slight bit higher power consumption, but not much.

as for the other question, i have no idea


----------



## wumpus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;14780002*
> TDP is the ABSOLUTE maximum heat output of the proc.
> 
> It likely produces much less heat/uses less energy.
> 
> Unlocked X3 may be a slight bit higher power consumption, but not much.
> 
> as for the other question, i have no idea


wiki says other wise:
Quote:


> The TDP is typically not the most power the chip could ever draw, such as by a power virus, but rather the maximum power that it would draw when running "real applications".


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power

AND the 4th core could have been deactivated because it was really leaky and very hot/power hungry. You really cant say what the chip will do man.


----------



## reflex99

If you can make a stock Athlon X3 draw 95w, at stock. i would be amazed.

EDIT:

Quote:



â€œThermal Design Power (TDP) is measured under the conditions of TCASE Max, IDD Max, and VDD=VID_VDD, and include all power dissipated on-die from VDD, VDDIO, VLDT, VTT, and VDDA.â€


amd != intel

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article169-page3.html


----------



## wumpus

if you cared to read the wiki article it also mentioned that TDP's were not always comparable. I was not comparing any TDP's so I dont even know what you are arguing either.


----------



## reflex99

I read the entire wiki article.

Including the sources, which is where i found the above.

AMD Defines TDP as the MAXIMUM possible power/heat output of the die.

not trying to fight, but you posted misinformation appearently


----------



## Tator Tot

Really, the only 3 letter acronym which means anything (on the AMD side) is ACP.

That's only use for Server chips, but they're actually measured, and binned based on that number in more of a specific sense instead of a general "Yeah this is higher than 65 but not 125, so it goes in the 95 category."


----------



## reflex99

point being, it is near impossible to get a "95w" cpu to actually draw 95w


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;14781078*
> point being, it is near impossible to get a "95w" cpu to actually draw 95w


Not really, it just depends on the load you're telling, or forcing it to run.

You can write a power virus that'll demand 100% usage out of everything; getting that to run without crashing windows would be hard.

Probably feasible in Linux.


----------



## Benz

Great work reflex99 but you should probably add some details under "Known Problems" for MSI boards 990FXA-GD80 and 990FXA-GD65.

They don't support RAM higher than 1333MHz, and they also have problems with latencies when you try to set the default ones for example 7-8-7-24.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Benz*


Great work reflex99 but you should probably add some details under "Known Problems" for MSI boards 990FXA-GD80 and 990FXA-GD65.

They don't support RAM higher than 1333MHz, and they also have problems with latencies when you try to set the default ones for example 7-8-7-24.


this is a vrm information list








might want to submit that info to the msi 990fxa board club


----------



## Intelship

Just found out my current rig is somewhat in danger of going kaboom. Can anybody vouch for any Asus motherboards?

I was looking at the ASUS M4A87TD/USB3.
Even though it's 4+1, would putting VRM heatsinks and doing a slight OC (~3.5ghz) still be dangerous?


----------



## MeBeTrollin'

Between those two - Asus M4A88T-M and Gigabyte GA-MA770T-UD3 which is better for OC with improvised VRM cooling (ghetto modded old passive heatsink from Asus 7600GS







)


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MeBeTrollin'*


Between those two - Asus M4A88T-M and Gigabyte GA-MA770T-UD3 which is better for OC with improvised VRM cooling (ghetto modded old passive heatsink from Asus 7600GS







)


GIgabyte.

The 770T-UD3 uses the same VRM design as their 790X & 790FX boards.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


GIgabyte.

The 770T-UD3 uses the same VRM design as their 790X & 790FX boards.


I thought it was the same as the K9A2 plat?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


I thought it was the same as the K9A2 plat?


K9A2-Platinum used Infineon MOSFETs to my memory, but I do not remember which models, nor the layout off the top of my head.

The 770T-UD3, 790X-UD4P, & 790FX-UD5P all use the same MOSFET design. And same components.

You can lift the heatsink off a 790X and put it on the 770T without an issue. It's also why the Enzotech heatsink works on most Gigabyte boards. 
They tend to use the same design with their Ultra Durable boards and increase the PCIe slot count, or add on some extra stuff and make it the next number up.


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Intelship;14824413*
> Just found out my current rig is somewhat in danger of going kaboom. Can anybody vouch for any Asus motherboards?
> 
> I was looking at the ASUS M4A87TD/USB3.
> Even though it's 4+1, would putting VRM heatsinks and doing a slight OC (~3.5ghz) still be dangerous?


my friend's asus has a 4+1 and decent OC we installed VRM syncs before installing the core 2 quad


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771;12670906*
> I recommend a slight rename of this article:
> "AMD Motherboard TDP and VRM system info"
> Or something similar. I find this as a useful resource for TDP support as well as VRM info.
> 
> Low RDS (on) is a new type of MOSFET that is smaller and runs cooler.
> 
> Belial perhaps you could take a pic of your mobo and post it here for reference?


Not a bad idea. When will we have an intel version?


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj;14856856*
> Not a bad idea. When will we have an intel version?


you can make one if you really want to....


----------



## cdoublejj

i had heard there was one in the works and offered my help if possible/needed.


----------



## itsgucci

Any custom heatsinks for GA-990FXA-D3's VRMs?


----------



## xd_1771

I think it uses the same mounts as some old boards that could fit (or almost fit but actually not) a certain heatsink...


----------



## allikat

I tried pulling the heatsink from a dead MA790x-UD3P and tried it on an MA770-UD3, and it didn't fit... the hole spacing was too wide. I'm pretty sure the MA770T-UD3 is just the AM3 revision of the MA770-UD3.

Edit: The AM3 version doesn't have the holes for the heatsink securing clips... odd that, since they're otherwise identical.


----------



## BWG

You could just use some thermal adheasive to attach it.


----------



## macca_dj

Crosshair v
Has any one here removed the VRM heatsink and replaced the pads with TIM and if so has there been much in the way of a temperature drop ?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *macca_dj*


Crosshair v
Has any one here removed the VRM heatsink and replaced the pads with TIM and if so has there been much in the way of a temperature drop ?


You'd most likely need to put some washers on the bottom of the board to supplement the difference in height for the heatsink.

A better idea, would be to replace the pads with better ones all together.

Phobya Thermal Pad XT's are usually pretty easy to get and are currently the best performance solutions around I do believe.


----------



## macca_dj

Thank you TatorTot,

So would it make much of a difference in Temps,


----------



## Tator Tot

I wouldn't imagine a drastic difference in temps unless Asus really used a poor thermal pad.


----------



## cdoublejj

is it possible to please add the Foxconn A74ML-K AM2+/AM3 AMD 740G, guessing it's a 4+1 or 4 phase.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj;15012019*
> is it possible to please add the Foxconn A74ML-K AM2+/AM3 AMD 740G, guessing it's a 4+1 or 4 phase.


It's an even simpler 3 phase design. Power to the IMC is derived from the 3phase circuit instead of having it's own dedicated channel.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*


is it possible to please add the Foxconn A74ML-K AM2+/AM3 AMD 740G, guessing it's a 4+1 or 4 phase.


ask and ye' shall receive


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


ask and ye' shall receive


Make sure to put it down correctlly as a 3 phase board.


----------



## reflex99

yep, i did.

you wanna have access to the sheet(s) too so you can correct stuff you see, or maybe make additions on occasion?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


yep, i did.

you wanna have access to the sheet(s) too so you can correct stuff you see, or maybe make additions on occasion?


Sure, I'll help you guys out when I can









PM me and I'll send you my gmail.


----------



## Rumilsurion

I don't know if this was the right place to ask, so sorry in advance.

Does anyone know a good aftermarket heat sink for both the VRM and North bridge chip set for the GA-990xa-UD3?

I was looking at http://www.enzotechnology.com/air_cooling.htm but I don't know if any of those will fit since they don't list support for my motherboard.

I know that the GA-990xa-UD3 already has a heat sink on the VRM.

I have gone one further by taking off the heat sinks and reapplying MX-4 thermal compound and dropping temperatures, by 8-10c. I would like to drop them even more with new heat sinks, if I could.

Would be a big help if anyone knows any website that carries after market VRM and North bridge chip set heat sinks for the GA-990xa-UD3.


----------



## Starbomba

If i were to heatsink the GA-880GM-USB3L, would i be able to unlock an x2 into an x4 safely _and_ OC to 3.8-4 GHz, or would it be too much?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Starbomba*


If i were to heatsink the GA-880GM-USB3L, would i be able to unlock an x2 into an x4 safely _and_ OC to 3.8-4 GHz, or would it be too much?


That board uses the newer 4(+1) phase design that Gigabyte has put on some of their Llano products.

It's supposed to be highly efficient but I can't tell who the MOSFET's are from. If you have it and can ID them for me, I'll let you know.

I've not had that design in hand though; so I don't know what it's abilities are.


----------



## blupupher

Well, add me to the list of MSI boards killed. My MSI 785GM-P45 died OC a x4 840 (a 95w CPU).


----------



## xd_1771

I'll take care of that this afternoon. Soz to you, bro :/


----------



## xd_1771

Today we have the first recorded 970A-G45 failure
Looks like the problems of the previous gen were passed on to the next gen, just as I had suspected. How is a massive heatsink going to help when the same transistors and lack of protection are being used...


----------



## reflex99

4GHz x6 on a $80 board....

what a fool


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


Today we have the first recorded 970A-G45 failure
Looks like the problems of the previous gen were passed on to the next gen, just as I had suspected. How is a massive heatsink going to help when the same transistors and lack of protection are being used...










Really...?

Oh wait, it's MSI.
















MSI apparently has lost all ability to maintain quality and still doesn't know how to design a power circuit to withstand the limits of overclocking.


----------



## reflex99

It has nothing to do with quality....

I'd say it's more failure to use 'fets rated high enough for the task.

One day someone is going to start a class action lawsuit....


----------



## Tator Tot

It's all about quality since it's not always the MOSFET's themselves. Especially on the old GD70's which had blow back into the chokes.

MSI's a combination of cheaped out components and poor design.

Unfortunately, Asus is the same story (but not nearly as dangerous) unless you're buying RoG or TUF boards. 
Gigabyte's cheaped out on their recent offerings as well with this Driver MOSFET shenanigans.

So far, Sapphire & Biostar have been real killers for good boards. Though, Sapphire's hard to get on this side of the pond and Biostar still doesn't know what "features" are.


----------



## xd_1771

^ failure to use quality FETs.... = failure to use quality parts.... yeah, has to do with quality








At least we knew about this before it would become a widespread issue when more people are buying these boards.

Such a shame that MSI hasn't had the decency to provide a better lower end VRM design for boards it touts for overclocking. The high end MSI AMD segment has actually improved quite a bit. The 990XA-GD55 has an 8+2 phase, allowing it to contend properly with the 990XA-UD3 and M5A99X. Apparently there is a 990FXA-GD70 soon; I am curious as to whether it will be an 890/790FX-GD70 rehash with the 4+1 phase or continue to use the higher end 8+2 phase (the latter more likely).

The design issues are so widespread, I could blame more than just the FETs. The 890GXM-G65 has seen failures despite that it uses what appear to be better, lower RDS (on) FETs. May be a choke issue no different from the GD70s as Tator Tot mentioned.


----------



## Tator Tot

990XA-GD55 uses the same poor design thats found on the 890FX-GD65. You can blow it with an x6 in the 4.4 range.


----------



## reflex99

you can kill just about any board really.......

GD65 death is not really as widespread as other models, so i wouldn't really call it bad just yet.

I really want to get one now just so i can see what i can do. RMA it to oblivion, and see if i can get a trend....

maybe that is what i will spend my monies on now.


----------



## Tator Tot

That's not true. At least Asus & Gigabyte understand limitations and prepare their boards for the event that something catastrophic could happen.

On the Mid-High end boards at least. (970 / 990X type boards.)

Biostar just over-engineers everything so you can slap some normal MOSFET heatsinks on a low end board (like mine) and clock an x6 to the heavens.

Also, the GD65 died 3 times. Once was a failure to post ever again, the other two sparked. All with the same settings which were all within AMD's guidelines as far as Voltages & Temps go.


----------



## razaice

Quick question. Can my motherboard handle my 24/7 overclock I've got going now? It's 4.2ghz at 1.55 volts. My motherboard is an 8+1.


----------



## reflex99

sure, why not


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *razaice*


Quick question. Can my motherboard handle my 24/7 overclock I've got going now? It's 4.2ghz at 1.55 volts. My motherboard is an 8+1.


Old board, reliable design. There's no reason it shouldn't unless something was wrong with the board to begin with.


----------



## itsgucci

Looking for a water block that would fit on my 990FXA-D3's MOSFETs, anyone?
Not quite sure if such a thing exists, but I'm not going ghetto and buying those small heatsinks in the 1st post that won't do anything.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *itsgucci;15239188*
> Looking for a water block that would fit on my 990FXA-D3's MOSFETs, anyone?
> Not quite sure if such a thing exists, but I'm not going ghetto and buying those small heatsinks in the 1st post that won't do anything.


Measure the hole spacing on the board's MOSFET area and then check water block websites. There probably isn't one already though.


----------



## Particle

I'm not bullish on MSI's VRMs either. Back when I was using their K9A2 Platinum, I had two or three board failures due to fried VRMs. One was actually at full stock with a 9850, iirc. Another wasn't really the VRM's fault itself, but rather the plastic retaining pin on one of the boards' VRM heatsinks broke and the spring rolled out into the VRM section, frying my PSU (but the board survived, oddly enough). In either case, it still suggests poor quality on MSI's part.


----------



## itsgucci

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


Measure the hole spacing on the board's MOSFET area and then check water block websites. There probably isn't one already though.


Was hoping there is going to be something out already, but anyways - thanks for the tip, I'll sure use it!
Will measure the spacing tomorrow and look around for any WC solutions.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Particle*


I'm not bullish on MSI's VRMs either. Back when I was using their K9A2 Platinum, I had two or three board failures due to fried VRMs. One was actually at full stock with a 9850, iirc. Another wasn't really the VRM's fault itself, but rather the plastic retaining pin on one of the boards' VRM heatsinks broke and the spring rolled out into the VRM section, frying my PSU (but the board survived, oddly enough). In either case, it still suggests poor quality on MSI's part.


K9A2 Platinum? They used INFINEON MOSFETs on those, the Platinum wasn't known to fail. Curious.


----------



## lagittaja

What matx mobo would you recommend. System I am planning to upgrade is my htpc which I have listed in my systems.
Okay so current mobo is Gigabyte's GA-MA78GM-S2H REV1.1
I want to move to DDR3 board, preferably an AM3+ just for the future considered.
Reason would mainly be the lack of memory. Yes, I could buy more DDR2 but uhm it's DDR2..
I am going to replace the ram on my sig rig -> teamgroup 2x4gb ddr3 would become free so I could put that on the htpc but I need to upgrade the mb first.
Plus I would like to oc the X2 on it but the 667 mem is holding it back.
Some would say "buy a new cpu -> no need to oc."
Nope.avi, that regor is more than enough for that htpc and I will keep it until it blows and then grab brand new cpu.
More ram is more important to me and more ram requires a mobo upgrade.

So I have already made my mind on *upgrading the mobo*, just the make and model is unclear.

I am on a budget, so that makes things difficult. 120€ max

First I was looking at a Asrock 880GMH/U3S3 for 91€ from Jimm's PC Store.
Then I heard it's vrm blows. Scratch that..

So then I looked at what gigabyte is offering. I now have a gigabyte, works like trains toilet 24/7, so I would love to keep using a GB mobo just for the heck of it.
So I found this 880GMA-USB3 rev3.1 for 115€ from same store.
Doesn't have vrm cooling, no prob I have a set of Enzotech BMR-C1 sinks collecting dust, I could use those there, are they enough?
And the mobo looks good and apparently is the only(?) recommended am3+ matx mobo for oc'ing by looking at the spreadsheet.

MSI ain't option.

E: Found that GB mobo for 82€ from mindfactory.de, I think I'll be going with that hahah








Hella good price imo so









Sent from my overclocked HTC Desire running Cool3D AceS v3


----------



## allikat

Hrm...
The 880GMA-USB3 really looks to be the best option for mATX at that store. Stick on those enzotech sinks and be happy with it.
The other real options, the Asus M5A88-M and the Asrock 880GMH-U3S3 both have 4 pin power connectors. Only the Gigabyte has an 8 pin power, which would be needed for first gen Bulldozer. I wouldn't touch MSI's AMD kit if you paid me.


----------



## Disturbed117

Looking to ditch my board asap, i hear its a time bomb with an x6. Thankfully i haven't had a failure yet lol


----------



## allikat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *disturbed117;15316863*
> Looking to ditch my board asap, i hear its a time bomb with an x6. Thankfully i haven't had a failure yet lol


MSI+AMD+overclock = ....




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=299knTdX-Wo&feature=related[/ame[/URL]]


----------



## lagittaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *allikat;15316815*
> Hrm...
> The 880GMA-USB3 really looks to be the best option for mATX at that store. Stick on those enzotech sinks and be happy with it.
> The other real options, the Asus M5A88-M and the Asrock 880GMH-U3S3 both have 4 pin power connectors. Only the Gigabyte has an 8 pin power, which would be needed for first gen Bulldozer. I wouldn't touch MSI's AMD kit if you paid me.


Exactly what I needed to hear. Since Bulldozer/whatever is coming next will be next in line for the processor in this thing after the regor fails, I think that 8pin is very much needed.
Amazon.de has good prices, I think I'll order from there when the time is right.


----------



## Criz

I like how the MSI 870A-G45 is not recommended for oc or a 125watt cpu and has not vrm heatsink + high vrm heatsink fail
when I've been using it for 1 year stock hsf on the cpu oc'ed to 4.2ghz
I now got a 990FXA-GD80 gave my old one away to a friend to help him build a pc he got a Phenom II X4 955 i overclocked it to 3.9ghz no prob.


----------



## reflex99

<!-- AME Google Spreadsheet --> https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=0Avoxk_HEpJEbdDYyU3BOenBQRWhSdkpKejFwQzBUTXc&w=100&h=1800 Google Spreadsheet

Behold! Many G54 and it's variants are on that list. 1 success story. sadly, cannot counteract tens of failures. (17 to be precise, with man others based on the same voltage regulator design)


----------



## Moparman

Can someone help me with what vrm setup my Biostar TF 8200 A2 am2+ board? Ill have a pic in a min of the vrm area.

Here is a pic.


----------



## lagittaja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Moparman;15326591*
> Can someone help me with what vrm setup my Biostar TF 8200 A2 am2+ board? Ill have a pic in a min of the vrm area.
> 
> Here is a pic.


I just woke up so I can be wrong, but that looks like a 3+1

Sent from my overclocked HTC Desire running Cool3D AceS v3


----------



## allikat

Could be 4+1.
Edit: Almost nowhere lists the power setup for this board, closest I got was teh Anandtech review which says:
Quote:


> Biostar utilizes an excellent 4-phase power delivery system along with quality capacitors throughout the board that resulted in very stable operation with everything from a 9950BE down to a BE-2400.


----------



## lagittaja

Hahah the NB on this GA-MA78GM-S2H rev1.1 sure get's toasty








3.2Ghz on the x2 240, 229mhz bus, nb 2061mhz, ddr2/667 ram beautifully running 763mhz. I know it can run 800mhz but this mb doesn't like higher bus speeds.
vcore is on auto, I can't lower it so..








E: Or damn it, was that the vrm itself? I did some research on this mb before I bought it from auction.
They were saying something about a buggy sensor.
Gotta install aida64 just to confirm, good that I bought it for use on my sig rig.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Moparman*


Can someone help me with what vrm setup my Biostar TF 8200 A2 am2+ board? Ill have a pic in a min of the vrm area.

Here is a pic.











Looks like 4 phase to me


----------



## xd_1771

3+1 phase or 4 phase depending on base design; if the hypertransport is 1000Mhz (2000MT/s) max it usually denotes AM2 base design which does not support split phase power.

TMPIN2 would be VRMs, not northbridge.... the 78GM-S2H is known for failure, but I'm surprised it gets that hot on a mere x2 240









Proof shows - out of all the boards, the MSI 870/770 series (most of which share common VRM design) have the highest failure rate compared to everything else.


----------



## lagittaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


the 78GM-S2H is known for failure, but I'm surprised it gets that hot on a mere x2 240










Hahah








Well it doesn't even have any cooling, plus I have a freezer 7 tower cooler, although there is a 38mm open frame exhaust fan on the rear right next to the vrm area so that _should_ help a little bit.
And to top that of the psu is right next to it, and the psu has 120mm intake fan.
But, I don't trust that sensor.. I clearly remember reading some stuff about buggy sensors on this particular board.
I think I'll go and try that vacuum cleaner "trick" to see if the temperature actually lowers when I suck air at high speed away from that area.
I'm gonna make a bet with myself that it doesn't lower much.
I'll try that tomorrow.
E: Now that I did a bit more digging, the sensor is not vrm. Its the northbridge, based on 40+ pages of discussion found with google. I'll confirm this tomorrow by trying to lower the temp with the vacuum









Sent from my overclocked HTC Desire running Cool3D AceS v3


----------



## xd_1771

^ Good point; should make sure at least some airflow gets there. Many older GIGABYTE 3+1 boards are known for being slouches. Good luck with the vacuum cleaner trick!


----------



## lagittaja

Quote:



Originally Posted by *xd_1771*


^ Good point; should make sure at least some airflow gets there. Many older GIGABYTE 3+1 boards are known for being slouches. Good luck with the vacuum cleaner trick!


Well not exactly as I suspected, but according to my "testing" tmpin1 is vrm and tmpin2 is nb on my board.
When I put the vacuum on the vrm area, practically as closest as I could without touching them: tmpin1 almost instadropped from 49Â°C to 42Â°C
When I put the vacuum as close as possible to the nb, normally at load the temp was 100Â°C +-5 now it was 80Â°C
I guess 780G just runs damn hot.

Sent from my overclocked HTC Desire running Cool3D AceS v3


----------



## allikat

Quote:



Originally Posted by *lagittaja*


Well not exactly as I suspected, but according to my "testing" tmpin1 is vrm and tmpin2 is nb on my board.
When I put the vacuum on the vrm area, practically as closest as I could without touching them: tmpin1 almost instadropped from 49Â°C to 42Â°C
When I put the vacuum as close as possible to the nb, normally at load the temp was 100Â°C +-5 now it was 80Â°C
I guess 780G just runs damn hot.


They can, and stock heatsinks are almost always as small as they can get away with. Sounds like you need some more case airflow to me.


----------



## Criz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


List of confirmed VRM failures

Behold! Many G54 and it's variants are on that list. 1 success story. sadly, cannot counteract tens of failures. (17 to be precise, with man others based on the same voltage regulator design)


Well from personal experience the board was stable and ran pretty cool actually I touched the Mosfets they weren't burning hot soo.. I don't know what others did but mine haven't blown since I got it early last year..


----------



## banskt

@Mods: The AM3 spreadsheet is not working

*Edit: Now its working... don't know if somebody fixed it in the meantime, or it was problem at my end.*


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *banskt;15365691*
> @Mods: The AM3 spreadsheet is not working
> 
> *Edit: Now its working... don't know if somebody fixed it in the meantime, or it was problem at my end.*


more than likely your end.

If the date or time on your computer is not set correctly, it can cause google docs to bug out sometimes.


----------



## ronnin426850

Just bumping, cause the thread is getting lost in my subs and I would like to have it near the top


----------



## linkin93

The Sapphire tab is spelled "Sappihre"


----------



## Tarun

Hi guys i need to Heatsinks for My 78LMT-S2P VRM i have hit ~3.9 Ghz but it aways restarts due to VRM protection even when i m at 3.4 Ghz with 1.425V the motherboard restarts can we make homemade VRM. the once at newegg are not available in india
Please help guys !!!!


----------



## reflex99

I think you are referring to heatsinks? Yes, you can make you own, really anything will do, as long as it is metal, and increases the surface area.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;15407065*
> I think you are referring to heatsinks? Yes, you can make you own, really anything will do, as long as it is metal, and increases the surface area.


I made my own, here be teh link with pics
http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/984905-got-myself-new-ath-2.html


----------



## blupupher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tarun;15406566*
> Hi guys i need to Heatsinks for My 78LMT-S2P VRM i have hit ~3.9 Ghz but it aways restarts due to VRM protection even when i m at 3.4 Ghz with 1.425V the motherboard restarts can we make homemade VRM. the once at newegg are not available in india
> Please help guys !!!!


You can get these copper ones or these aluminum ones from dealextreme.


----------



## Tarun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15407137*
> I made my own, here be teh link with pics
> http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/984905-got-myself-new-ath-2.html


nice work buddy but everyone dose not have a crap Graphic card







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blupupher;15407215*
> You can get these copper ones or these aluminum ones from dealextreme.


those guys do not ship too India


----------



## blupupher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tarun;15407926*
> ...
> those guys do not ship too India


Really, I thought they shipped everywhere? Sorry.


----------



## Aniket

My current mobo sucks!
Can anyone help me to choose a decent overclocking mobo under $80?
I'm upgrading my cpu to a phenomII x4 955 BE & 4gb ddr3 ram.
Only mention asus/gigabyte mobo.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Aniket*


My current mobo sucks!
Can anyone help me to choose a decent overclocking mobo under $80?
I'm upgrading my cpu to a phenomII x4 955 BE & 4gb ddr3 ram.
Only mention asus/gigabyte mobo.


Any cheapo Asus with 785 or above chipset and 4+1 phase will be perfectly fine, if you're willing to settle for moderate overclockability for less $$. 
If not, AsRock have the cheapest 8+1 mobos, still great quality.


----------



## Aniket

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*


Any cheapo Asus with 785 or above chipset and 4+1 phase will be perfectly fine, if you're willing to settle for moderate overclockability for less $$. 
If not, AsRock have the cheapest 8+1 mobos, still great quality.


I'm a moderate overclocker,may be I'll push my upcoming phenomII x4 955 maximum to 3.6ghz.
So do you think asus m4a88t-m le will be decent?
I has 2ram slots but frankly speaking,I don't need more than 2slots.
Also which ram should I buy?
4gb corsair vengeance 1600mhz or 4gb corsair xms3 1600mhz?
In my country corsair vengeance costs less than gskill ripjawsX.


----------



## Tarun

hi buddy Aniket a Asus M4A88T-M LE would do good but i guess the prices of that mobo in india is 10% to 15% more. Even i had that scrap M68 mobo 2 days ago i replaced it with a 78LMT-S2P and i must say is a mind blowing mobo just that if u overclock u have to keep a eye on the VRM temp i just need VRM cooling and i m set for ~3.7Ghz min
and as for the RAM a ripjawx costs 1850 in mumbai







grab one i m sure that u wont regret for it just check one thing out whether it supports AMD processors b`coz i have heard quiet some things about g.skill not supporting AMD cpu on the other hand a Corsair is also good u may go with any of them


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Aniket*


I'm a moderate overclocker,may be I'll push my upcoming phenomII x4 955 maximum to 3.6ghz.
So do you think asus m4a88t-m le will be decent?
I has 2ram slots but frankly speaking,I don't need more than 2slots.
Also which ram should I buy?
4gb corsair vengeance 1600mhz or 4gb corsair xms3 1600mhz?
In my country corsair vengeance costs less than gskill ripjawsX.


THat mobo is 3+1 power phase. Get 4+1 min for peace of mind.
Corsair Vengeance beats XMS3 with better voltages and way better heatsinks. I was also in the same dilemma a month ago, between vengeance and xms3, got 2x4 vengeance, don't regret it one bit







Especially for that low price.


----------



## Aniket

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850;15411437*
> THat mobo is 3+1 power phase. Get 4+1 min for peace of mind.
> Corsair Vengeance beats XMS3 with better voltages and way better heatsinks. I was also in the same dilemma a month ago, between vengeance and xms3, got 2x4 vengeance, don't regret it one bit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Especially for that low price.


What about gigabyte 880gma usb3?
Is it good?


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aniket;15417941*
> What about gigabyte 880gma usb3?
> Is it good?


That's what I was planning to get








1866 DDR3, USB3, SATA 6, 4+1 phase, stable volts. Perfect mobo IMO


----------



## Aniket

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tarun;15411188*
> hi buddy Aniket a Asus M4A88T-M LE would do good but i guess the prices of that mobo in india is 10% to 15% more. Even i had that scrap M68 mobo 2 days ago i replaced it with a 78LMT-S2P and i must say is a mind blowing mobo just that if u overclock u have to keep a eye on the VRM temp i just need VRM cooling and i m set for ~3.7Ghz min
> and as for the RAM a ripjawx costs 1850 in mumbai
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> grab one i m sure that u wont regret for it just check one thing out whether it supports AMD processors b`coz i have heard quiet some things about g.skill not supporting AMD cpu on the other hand a Corsair is also good u may go with any of them


Yah,I would go with vengeance.
Asus M4a88Tm LE(3+1 power phase) cost rs3400 & gigabyte 880GMa usb3(4+1 power phase) cost rs4800


----------



## Tarun

for moderate ocing i recommend u a 78LMT-S2P and just make sure u have a 40mm fan blowing at the VRM or if possible a 80mm fan and u are good i overclocked my X4 640 upto 3.8Ghz with that board but i can not continue bcoz it needs very high voltage(1.6+v) so i couldn't take a risk i m currently at 3.6Ghz at 1.55v that a decent overclock my that board i guess or as go with Asus M4A78LT-M if u don't have plans for Bulldozer upgrade bcoz it will take ages to reach India


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tarun;15418390*
> for moderate ocing i recommend u a 78LMT-S2P and just make sure u have a 40mm fan blowing at the VRM or if possible a 80mm fan and u are good i overclocked my X4 640 upto 3.8Ghz with that board but i can not continue bcoz it needs very high voltage(1.6+v) so i couldn't take a risk i m currently at 3.6Ghz at 1.55v that a decent overclock my that board i guess or as go with Asus M4A78LT-M if u don't have plans for Bulldozer upgrade bcoz it will take ages to reach India


Bulldozer downgrade, you mean


----------



## Aniket

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tarun*


for moderate ocing i recommend u a 78LMT-S2P and just make sure u have a 40mm fan blowing at the VRM or if possible a 80mm fan and u are good i overclocked my X4 640 upto 3.8Ghz with that board but i can not continue bcoz it needs very high voltage(1.6+v) so i couldn't take a risk i m currently at 3.6Ghz at 1.55v that a decent overclock my that board i guess or as go with Asus M4A78LT-M if u don't have plans for Bulldozer upgrade bcoz it will take ages to reach India










I'm buying an used phenomII X4 955 Black Edition(125w) in next few months and the mobo you are suggesting support upto 95w cpu at max,so it wont support the 125w phenom,if it luckily supports then also it won't give stability.
I'm mostly leaning towards gigabyte 880gm usb3 (4+1 power phase)
I'm a student,thus I can't afford i5/amd FX,
my only motive is gaming,so a phenomII x4 will be great for my budget.


----------



## jmcslob

sub for reference


----------



## Tarun

Quote:



I'm buying an used phenomII X4 955 Black Edition(125w) in next few months and the mobo you are suggesting support upto 95w cpu at max,so it wont support the 125w phenom,if it luckily supports then also it won't give stability.


*Gigabyte 78LMT-S2P* is a 780G 140w AM3+ mobo whereas* Asus M4A78LT-M * is a 125w 4 Dimm slot 780G chipset the *M4A78LTM-LE* is a 95w Mobo bro read the thing abit more carefully yaar


----------



## reflex99

rev 3.1 of the 78LMT-S2P is 4+1, and uses lowRDS(on) transistors, whereas rev 4.0 is 3+1 with traditional transistors.

I would say the rev 3.1 is a pretty decent board.


----------



## Tarun

i guess the rev 4.1 does not have the safely shutdown option then which the 3.1 has


----------



## reflex99

i don't have confirmation on that


----------



## xd_1771

The rev 3.1 has been confirmed to have shutdown based VRM protection.


----------



## Tarun

^^ + 1 to XD i personal have experienced on


----------



## Jim888

I'm looking at the Asus Sabertooth AM3+ here 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131736

anyone tested it? I tried searching the thread and Couldnt find anything conclusive.


----------



## mrcool63

its an 8+2 design clearly stated in the site.. if you want better try the asrock one with 12+2 design


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mrcool63;15506218*
> its an 8+2 design clearly stated in the site.. if you want better try the asrock one with 12+2 design


Increased Phase Count isn't indicative of quality.

On the other hand, slide a few BIOS/UEFI issues, the 990FX Fatal1ty is a pretty good board.


----------



## reflex99

updated list

Had the A990FXM-A listed as 8+2, it is actually 6+1

Also, newegg has it listed at $240...$5 more than the UD7, and $10 more than the CHV....

WTH


----------



## raisethe3

You talking about the ECS one right? If so, then yeah! I know its ridiculous.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;15506584*
> updated list
> 
> Had the A990FXM-A listed as 8+2, it is actually 6+1
> 
> Also, newegg has it listed at $240...$5 more than the UD7, and $10 more than the CHV....
> 
> WTH


----------



## Tator Tot

It's a channel issue.

ECS's boards are much better priced over in Asia. $20 or less than the UD5, Sabertooth, & Extreme 4.


----------



## reflex99

Hence i said "newegg has it listed" implying it is not ECS' problem


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


Hence i said "newegg has it listed" implying it is not ECS' problem


It's a problem on both ends.

Newegg increases price because ECS doesn't have as many units to ship to North America that Asus/Gigabyte/MSI do. 
On the other hand, ECS's MSRP price is long side the UD5, XTR4, GD65, & Evo in that $200 area. (I think it's actual MSRP may be $189.99, but I'd have to check.)


----------



## onoz

What do you experts think of the ECS A880LM-M(1.0)?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *onoz*


What do you experts think of the ECS A880LM-M(1.0)?


It's ECS's High Freq 3+1 design.

It should be more efficient than before (and thus generate less heat.) As long as the Heatsink has a good pad on it and is locked into place well, it should be a good board on it.

I would clock up a Phenom II x6 heavily on it; only because that VRM will heat up a good deal. Though it shouldn't blow under high loads either.


----------



## onoz

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*


It's ECS's High Freq 3+1 design.

It should be more efficient than before (and thus generate less heat.) As long as the Heatsink has a good pad on it and is locked into place well, it should be a good board on it.

*I would clock up a Phenom II x6 heavily on it; only because that VRM will heat up a good deal. Though it shouldn't blow under high loads either.*


You would or you wouldn't?







I might be misunderstanding what you wrote, but it seems a bit counter-intuitive. Also, what are your thoughts on this ECS motherboard compared to the M4A78LT-M?

Thanks Tator Tot!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *onoz*


You would or you wouldn't?







I might be misunderstanding what you wrote, but it seems a bit counter-intuitive. Also, what are your thoughts on this ECS motherboard compared to the M4A78LT-M?

Thanks Tator Tot!


Better VRM design than the Asus board.

I'm saying that I wouldn't overclock an x6 heavily on that board (I'd stay around 4Ghz OC if you did plan on overclocking with that board.)

On the other hand, I don't think Overclocking an x6 would over load the board, it's just the VRM's with that design in the past; could get very hot and thus were a worry for long term stability. A fan over the VRM's (like an Antec Spot Cool) would help with this greatly.


----------



## onoz

Okay, thanks a lot!


----------



## Tarun

hi guys i own a 78LMT-S2P i want to ask that can it unlock my 640's L3 cache ??? i cant see the ACC option in my BIOS ????


----------



## reflex99

added a bunch of mediocre ASRock boards to the list

985GM-GS3 FX
960GM-(G)S3 FX
N68-V(G)S3 FX
N68-GS3 FX


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:



Originally Posted by *reflex99*


added a bunch of mediocre ASRock boards to the list

985GM-GS3 FX
960GM-(G)S3 FX
N68-V(G)S3 FX
N68-GS3 FX


Wow...they're saying BD will be fine on the Good'ole 3 Phase design...

Well, they're either incredibly optimistic, incredibly stupid; or used some beefy MOSFETs on those guys.


----------



## reflex99

70a transistors right









also, can you confirm that the 
985GM-GS3 FX
960GM-(G)S3 FX

are 2+1?

They have a faster HT link, which leads me to believe they are not based on an older design. But i have been wrong before.


----------



## Tator Tot

They're both the same old 2 Transistor / 3 Phase design.

No split-plane power there.


----------



## reflex99

so i got it correct on the sheet now?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99;15563373*
> so i got it correct on the sheet now?


Yep, looks good.

All the Deluxe / Extreme boards on your AsRock AM3+ list are Low RDS(on)


----------



## reflex99

you know you can edit it too


----------



## Tator Tot

You know what, I completely forgot.


----------



## reflex99

Is Tator tot kinda an allusion to Carrot Top?


----------



## Tator Tot

Nah, first time I've been asked that actually.

I used to be "The Unnamed Tator Tot" though, that name was far too long. So I just shortened it.


----------



## xd_1771

Check this out
Another 970A-G45 failure, this time involving a snap, crackle and pop. Destroyed with a 1090T at just 300MHz above stock.


----------



## reflex99

Scumbag PC enthusiast

Buys $200 chip

uses $80 motherboard.


----------



## Tator Tot

Gigabyte's 770T-UD3P could Overclock that chip no problem, and it was $80. 
The AsRock 970 Extreme 3 could do it, and it's a ~$90 board.

Overclocking is about buying low end parts and bringing the most out of them.


----------



## Tarun

hi guys i asked u can i unlock a Athlon II X4 640 L3 cache on my 78LMT-S2P ??????????????????????


----------



## blupupher

Any idea on the MSI 785GTM-E45 (AM2+/AM3 board)? 
The MSI 785GT-E63 is on the list as good for 125w (MSI says 140 supported) even though it is a 3+1 design.

I am wanting to use a 95 w CPU (x4 830 or 840) on the e-45 model. Figured it should be safe since I will not be OC it (or maybe just whatever I can get on stock volts).

I already killed 1 MSI board with the 840 when upping volts, so a little worried about it.


----------



## Tator Tot

With a stock 125w chip it shouldn't burn but that's a low end MSI 4+1 Phase design. I wouldn't advise overclocking on it at all, or you will toast the board.

You may want to give the volts a slight 0.05v bump from stock due to load vDroop if you have a good unlocking chip.


----------



## dartuil

hello i planned to buy a 1075t but i see your thread and make me change my mind
i have a gigabyte 785gt-ud3h rev 1.0 and you said on the thread its not good for x6 damn it!! I have to buy a new mobo!
can someone show me the post with the people who had this mother board?


----------



## reflex99

you can try it if you want, it uses an older-ish 4+1 phase design, which has a couple instances of failure, hence XD marked it as not as good when he put it in the list.

I personally think it would be fine for a stock 1075T. If you add some cooling to the transistors, you could probably be fine for a modest overclock.


----------



## dartuil

hello thx








where are the transistors?
is the antec spotcool enough?


----------



## xd_1771

Overclocking a 125w is where id stay back with that board.


----------



## dartuil

im aware my mobo suck i wont overclok the x6 before i get a better mobo








stay at stock with it
no money to change mobo i have to sold the old cpu

is that ormal bios show 14.70 on my +12V?


----------



## xd_1771

May want to confirm that with a multimeter before any damage...


----------



## reflex99

Quote:



Originally Posted by *dartuil*


im aware my mobo suck i wont overclok the x6 before i get a better mobo








stay at stock with it
no money to change mobo i have to sold the old cpu

is that ormal bios show 14.70 on my +12V?


software readings are always innaccurate

you have an S12II, i wouldn't worry


----------



## dartuil

i think its a bios error too cause im stable no freeze or bsod
this thread maybe save my money i was planning to oc the 1075t to 4ghz


----------



## J.M.D

Excellent job xd_1771.

So i have a question. Is this " Low RDS(on) " much important in terms of technical aspects ?

Seems my board is out of the list on the "Low RDS(on)" column. I think it improves the conversion efficiency. Isn't it ?


----------



## reflex99

yea, they produce less heat basically.

overall more efficient

more expensive


----------



## Valnjes

There are old-new AMD+ MBO's from ASRock:
890FX Deluxe4 P1.60
770 Extreme3 P1.90

AM3+ BD support from now on,
(white socket but under AM3+ section)


----------



## cdoublejj

would the AsRock 990fx extreme 3 be okay to over clock with an 1100T?

I can't decide between the extreme 4 or the extreme 3 yet. the extreme 4 has 8+1 phase versus 4+1 and also has floppy and ide witch i could use but, don't need, my current sig has all the legacy on it. The extreme 3 has the all black/dark i'm looking for just not sure if the 4+1 is totally up to spec?


----------



## Valnjes

You could overclock, but the higher you go, that harder for the MBO would it be.


----------



## cdoublejj

sounds like cooling is important, due to Ohm's Law.


----------



## Jared2608

So since the M5A97 - Evo is a 6+2 phase board, with cooling, does that mean it would be safe to use it to overclock an FX-4100?? The board is very cheap and I don't need SLI/Crossfire, but I don't want to buy it if an OC will destroy it, lol!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jared2608*
> 
> So since the M5A97 - Evo is a 6+2 phase board, with cooling, does that mean it would be safe to use it to overclock an FX-4100?? The board is very cheap and I don't need SLI/Crossfire, but I don't want to buy it if an OC will destroy it, lol!


You shouldn't have an issue at all with the board in terms of power. The FX-8150 would even be fine for it.


----------



## Jared2608

Thanks man, much appreciated!!!


----------



## Detahmaio

Should i have a problem OCing on my sig rig board idk why but my chip won't go past 3.5


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Detahmaio*
> 
> Should i have a problem OCing on my sig rig board idk why but my chip won't go past 3.5


Probably yes. AsRock generally have good quality fets, but still 3+1 is too thin for my liking. I wouldn't OC more than 100-200Mhz on that mobo, if at all.


----------



## Maurauder

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Probably yes. AsRock generally have good quality fets, but still 3+1 is too thin for my liking. I wouldn't OC more than 100-200Mhz on that mobo, if at all.


boards not a 3+1 its a 4+1


----------



## Detahmaio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maurauder*
> 
> boards not a 3+1 its a 4+1


you think different about my mobo?


----------



## Maurauder

well the person who responded to you first said it was a 3+1 phase but it's a 4+1 phase. I have the same board. Do you have really bad vdrop on yours? With my vcore set to 1.42 in the bios...it spikes up to 1.5 under load and sits at 1.46 at idle.


----------



## Detahmaio

My vdrop isn't that bad


----------



## Maurauder

1.55v on an athlon x3 445 wouldn't be as heavy on the vrms as an x4. I wouldn't go any further than that though.


----------



## Detahmaio

so i should bring it back to a x3 instead of trying to oc 1.55v on a x4?


----------



## xd_1771

^ The M3A uses a lowish quality 4+1 phase, and I would highly recommend against pushing such insane (1.55V) voltages on the motherboard. Much less any overclocking if you don't even have any VRM cooling!


----------



## ronnin426850

Sorry about the 3+1, my mistake. Still, not advisable.


----------



## Detahmaio

fair enough


----------



## Fooliobass

Delete


----------



## Fooliobass

Delete


----------



## FragZero

I'm looking for a motherboard with decent VRM's for my 1090T

Requirements

- Able to handle 1.45-1.5V Thuban (4-4.1ghz)
- SLI = 990FX

Cheaper = better, already invested in an HX850

I'm a bit uncertain about the options

There is the UD3 which seems nice but i read there are some VRM issues with the UD-gigabyte series

Maybe the Asus Sabertooth? Only 10 euro's more expensive


----------



## lagittaja

Well got around to finally install the enzo sinks on my htpc's mobo.
Could fit only 4 of them on the vrm, they were a tad too big so I slapped the other 4 on top of the nb sink








Idle temps stayed around the same but IBT load temps dropped 9*C both on the vrm and northbridge.
Before I put that htpc together a year ago, I changed the tim on the nb. Maybe I should try and reapply the tim to see if the idle temps would drop a little.
Me not like 80+*C idle temp.. Also I gotta see if I can make the sink a little more secure, currently it's a bit wibblewobble if I press on it bcuz of dem damn idiotic pushpins...
Yes it does make contact with the chip, the sink is too hot to the touch all the time.

But it doesn't matter after all, going to swap to 1155 platform probably next january so..

Sent using Tapatalk


----------



## Catscratch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lagittaja*
> 
> Well got around to finally install the enzo sinks on my htpc's mobo.
> Could fit only 4 of them on the vrm, they were a tad too big so I slapped the other 4 on top of the nb sink
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Idle temps stayed around the same but IBT load temps dropped 9*C both on the vrm and northbridge.
> Before I put that htpc together a year ago, I changed the tim on the nb. Maybe I should try and reapply the tim to see if the idle temps would drop a little.
> Me not like 80+*C idle temp.. Also I gotta see if I can make the sink a little more secure, currently it's a bit wibblewobble if I press on it bcuz of dem damn idiotic pushpins...
> Yes it does make contact with the chip, the sink is too hot to the touch all the time.
> But it doesn't matter after all, going to swap to 1155 platform probably next january so..
> Sent using Tapatalk


I have to make a WARNING here.

DONT PUSH / MOVE / TOUCH(FIRMLY) THE NB/SB HEATSINKS WHILE COMPUTER IS RUNNING. Those clips or pins hold them may contact the board or the heatsink itself. Killed an awesome EPOX 8RDA+ board because of that :/.


----------



## Sebiale

I just wanted to ask if anyone is aware of any compatibility/stability issues with the stuff I'm using with my 890FXA-GD65? I've been having some issues, which I reported here, and Darktrooper78 says he's had similar issues which he fixed by replacing his own 890FXA-GD65. The board seems to be pretty good in the list in the OP, so I'm wondering whether it's something going on with my hardware choices, or if we're both just that unlucky.

MSI live update insists my Chipset and Audio software is out of date, even though I've downloaded and run the supposed files through live update and directly from the website multiple times with no apparent effect.


----------



## Crypto72

This is probably the most useful thread when buying a new motherboard. Here is another motherboard to add to the AM3+ list:

ASRock 880G Pro3
Phase count: 4+1
Heatsinked: Yes
CPU TDP: 140W
CPU power plug: 8 Pin
Form factor: ATX

Looking at the pictures on the manufacturer's website, it seems identical to the 890GX Pro3, so it could be that the VRMs are the same...


----------



## cdoublejj

how many phases does a gigabyte GA-M55SLI-S4 have?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128321


----------



## reflex99

3 if i had to guess


----------



## xd_1771

3-phase setup, 4 transistors per phase. But not really of very good quality - no solid caps, and it seems the same transistors used in other designs i.e. the one on the GA-MA78LMT-S2, that are not very suitable for high TDP processors


----------



## cdoublejj

guess i will throw some heat sinks on it, while i figure out what to do with it.


----------



## xd_1771

^ With the board really only supporting dual cores I don't think you are in any particular risk here. If you are going to be using anything other than the stock cooler, then you should definitely throw some heatsinks on as otherwise that leaves the VRMs totally un-cooled.


----------



## cdoublejj

I think i'll slice up one of those funky intel north bridge coolers with the really tall fins. The scary part is i would probably be the one to have some one mod in some micro code and drop in a 65watt tri core but, i have enough projects already. I'll stick to following the core 2 quad on intel 965 chipset thread.


----------



## MOOGLEYS

I have an MSI 870A-G54 FX AM3+ board with a Phenom II 960T unlocked to 6 core and overclocked to 4.0ghz using around 1.45V. Everything runs fine and the cpu never goes above 50.c under load. I was thinking of adding some small copper heatsinks to the VRM's on the board or should I just look for a different board ?


----------



## reflex99

different board would probably be best, but copper heatsinks can't hurt


----------



## xd_1771

Just swap to a different board, heatsinks won't hurt but the board might just fail anyway despite due to transistor ratings and widespread issues. It is not built to handle a 4 core at 4Ghz let alone a 6 core.

Keep the 960T at stock with the stock heatsink for now.


----------



## Aniket

I have a x4 955 BE c3
mobo- gigabyte 880gm usb3 (4+1 vrm)
I'm running @ 3.8ghz with 1.475v.
I was aiming 4ghz for achieving better benchmarking score but cant go any higher than 3.8ghz even if I bump the voltgae.
I know oc'ing on a 4+1vrm mobo beyond 3.8ghz is not recommended so should I stop at 3.8ghz?
I have no plan for changing mobo.


----------



## reflex99

it's probably fine tbh


----------



## gwertyu

did you know if the 880gm-usb3l, have auto shut down protection??? its rev 3.1 , i am planning to oc to near 3.4-3.5 with vrms coolers ofc.

also it use 4 pin cpu power plug no 8

thanks.


----------



## xd_1771

Being based directly on the GA-78LMT-S2P design I'm pretty sure it is protected.


----------



## Markeh

Can I just check the Asus M4N68T-M LE V2? It says no data. Will it be safe for a rig that's not being OC'd on a 65w Athlon II?


----------



## blupupher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Markeh*
> 
> Can I just check the Asus M4N68T-M LE V2? It says no data. Will it be safe for a rig that's not being OC'd on a 65w Athlon II?


That will be fine. That board supports up to 125w CPU's, and since your not overclocking with only a 65w cpu, you will not be putting much stress on the board.


----------



## Sebiale

I've been looking for a new mobo; I've been browsing though Newegg, but I thought I'd ask here as well.
My mobo seems to be giving me a few different issues and I've decided to replace it.
I've been wondering if anyone has any motherboards they'd recommend specifically, or any brands that are typically the best to look at it?
MSI has failed me, so I'm avoiding that brand at least.
My current mobo.

This Biostar has been kind of tempting.
Can anyone say much good about Biostar? Are they well-known or have a pretty good track record for mobo stability?


----------



## PunkX 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sebiale*
> 
> I've been looking for a new mobo; I've been browsing though Newegg, but I thought I'd ask here as well.
> My mobo seems to be giving me a few different issues and I've decided to replace it.
> I've been wondering if anyone has any motherboards they'd recommend specifically, or any brands that are typically the best to look at it?
> MSI has failed me, so I'm avoiding that brand at least.
> My current mobo.
> This Biostar has been kind of tempting.
> Can anyone say much good about Biostar? Are they well-known or have a pretty good track record for mobo stability?


Biostar boards are decent OC'ers and are of generally good quality. What's your budget for the new board?


----------



## Sebiale

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PunkX 1*
> 
> Biostar boards are decent OC'ers and are of generally good quality. What's your budget for the new board?


Between $100-200.
I'd prefer to stay between $100-150 or less if I can.


----------



## reflex99

990fxa-ud3


----------



## PunkX 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99*
> 
> 990fxa-ud3


This^^


----------



## Sebiale

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99*
> 
> 990fxa-ud3


Gigabyte is a pretty good mobo brand then I take it?


----------



## PunkX 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sebiale*
> 
> Gigabyte is a pretty good mobo brand then I take it?


Indeed


----------



## reflex99

sometimes. They are hit or miss like pretty much every brand


----------



## 0razor1

Am torn between the Asus M5a97 regular ( no digiVRM) and the M5a97 evo ... I'm currently on a dead M4A785TD-V EVO with a heatsinked 8+2 split plane .. and I must get a trade in today .. The vendor hasn't the 970 EVO.. only the plain 970.. should I jump the gun or hold off ?? It'll take a week to order.. and I haven't a working machine in the time being.

AFAIK : (both Heatsinked)
M5a970 evo -- digiVRM 8+2 split
M5a970 -- Low RDS (on) 4+1 split ....

from my current, albeit dead M4A785TD-V EVO -- 8+2 Heatsinked..


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *0razor1*
> 
> Am torn between the Asus M5a97 regular ( no digiVRM) and the M5a97 evo ... I'm currently on a dead M4A785TD-V EVO with a heatsinked 8+2 split plane .. and I must get a trade in today .. The vendor hasn't the 970 EVO.. only the plain 970.. should I jump the gun or hold off ?? It'll take a week to order.. and I haven't a working machine in the time being.
> AFAIK : (both Heatsinked)
> M5a970 evo -- digiVRM 8+2 split
> M5a970 -- Low RDS (on) 4+1 split ....
> from my current, albeit dead M4A785TD-V EVO -- 8+2 Heatsinked..


I see in your sig that you're running PhII quad @3.8Ghz @1.37v.
If you don't care about going higher than that, 4+1 heatsinked Asus will suffice.


----------



## 0razor1

Thanks for the prompt reply~ Well, I do plan on BD-E later on, but I guess you're right ..









And I lose out on some board quality ( I mean color and Sata stacking







, better audio chip, firewire ) But it should be worth it ..

A question. . How high can I go with a 4+1 with the new low RDS(on) MOSFETs on the M5A97 ?? I mean like 1.45V tops and what amperage >??

Also , even on my current mobo ( 8+2) I've suffered a bit of vdroop with and without LLC adjustments.. And leaving HWmon on overnight usually resulted in a variation of ~ .1VCore ... that's massive right? All this and I think a 4+1 will probably fare worse than my current but dead 8+1 ?? Thanks again !


----------



## Sebiale

I'm also liking the Gigabyte 990XA-UD3 and the 970A-UD3, they're both cheaper than the 990FXA, and as far as I can tell, the only differences are the chipset and number of PCI slots.
990XA would probably be best for me since it has two video card slots. 990FXA has four; I don't think I'd ever use that many. 970A only seems to have one, which seems a bit too limiting.
At least if I'm reading them correctly.


----------



## cdoublejj

i think those boards use that weird digital vrm thing with the vdroop.


----------



## cdoublejj

i have an Asus P5K-E do i need a Enzotech MST-66 C1100 or Enzotech MST-88 C1100


----------



## Azuredragon1

Is ASRock 970 EXTREME4 good enough to push 955 x4 to 3.8 safely or should i just buy GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 ?


----------



## reflex99

should be fine power wise.

It might limit the overclock potential of the chip, but it is unlikely that it would fail.


----------



## Lutis

I put two 40mm fans under my CPU fan with zip ties and it worked very well.


----------



## Cannon19932006

Will Enzotech mos-c10 work?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835708012


----------



## cdoublejj

is the MSI 870S-G46 a 4 phase? does it have bad VRMs?


----------



## xd_1771

It is a 4+1 phase VRM system and yes it's VRM setup can be considered "bad", the board uses a "known for failure" design and should preferably not be used with 125W TDP processors.


----------



## cdoublejj

warned a friend using that board with a 95 watt cpu and told him to buy the enzotech heatsinks and not to over clock. MSI are serious A holes considering how bad all their am3 boards are.


----------



## xd_1771

MSI has released the 970A-G46, though it uses fundamentally the same VRM design as the 970A-G45. One thing that makes me curious is that the VRM heatsink is apparently bigger. But if the underlying design has not changed (as it appear it has not) this will not make a difference. MSI doesn't display the "avoid heavy burn in tools" warning on this mobo's page on their website. Curious.


----------



## cdoublejj

do any of their boards display that warning?


----------



## xd_1771

Check their website - the majority of their 870 series boards (which have been known for failure) and the 970A-G45 now display that warning on their pages. I think it good that they are taking that initiative but I really think that board design should be improved, rather than keeping the same faulty design and throwing a warning sticker on it.


----------



## winginit

While we're on the subject of MSI 970 and 870 boards....

I recently picked up an MSI 870A Fuzion Power Edition, and have been pretty pleased with it so far.... has anyone seen any stories of board failure with this model? I haven't yet come across any.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771*
> 
> Check their website - the majority of their 870 series boards (which have been known for failure) and the 970A-G45 now display that warning on their pages. I think it good that they are taking _that_ initiative but I really think that board design should be improved, rather than keeping the same faulty design and throwing a warning sticker on it.


*technically* since overclocking isn't within spec, with this warning, there should be no problem.

At stock without running something stupid like IBT, i'd say it is pretty unlikely to be a problem.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *winginit*
> 
> While we're on the subject of MSI 970 and 870 boards....
> I recently picked up an MSI 870A Fuzion Power Edition, and have been pretty pleased with it so far.... has anyone seen any stories of board failure with this model? I haven't yet come across any.


It is different/much better than all of the other 870/970 boards they make.


----------



## xd_1771

At stock CPU speed/cooler it should be no problem on any sort of processor load including IBT. However, even that is not the case sometimes...... it's great that the warning is there but I think that altogether there should really be a reconsideration of the 125W TDP rating, particularly for the FX processors (the 8-cores can be more VRM intensive)


----------



## cdoublejj

a warning sticker is pathetic how about one that says do not over clock hell how about patch the bios so it can't OC. I think they should be hit with a class action except you would have nothing on them.


----------



## miniterror

This seems verry intresting.
I have a 4+1 phase thingie so apparantly im doing it wrong as i oc'd my 1100t in it.
Will read it later tonight when im on my desktop instead of this crappy loan device

Edit: talking about my sig rig

Verstuurd van mijn GT-S5570 met Tapatalk


----------



## dipanzan

Can the MSI 990FXA-GD80 be added ?









Phases: 8+2
Heatsinked: Yes
CPU TDP: 140W
CPU power plug: 8-pin
Compatible heatsinks: N/A (don't know)

Here is a picture:


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miniterror*
> 
> This seems verry intresting.
> I have a 4+1 phase thingie so apparantly im doing it wrong as i oc'd my 1100t in it.
> Will read it later tonight when im on my desktop instead of this crappy loan device
> Edit: talking about my sig rig
> Verstuurd van mijn GT-S5570 met Tapatalk


not always, some 4+1 have poor quality transistors. i had foxconn destroyer witch is 4+1 and had an OCed Deneb 940 because it had a heat sink and decent quality VRMs. now if you have an msi with high VRM failure rate and you have no heat sink you should definitely touch one of the vrms and see how warm it is, definitely take care to hold your finger on there for a good minute or 2.


----------



## xd_1771

As long as you have ensured VRM cooling on your setup it is totally fine. If not, do that right away for reliable & stable operation!


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dipanzan*
> 
> Can the MSI 990FXA-GD80 be added ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phases: 8+2
> Heatsinked: Yes
> CPU TDP: 140W
> CPU power plug: 8-pin
> Compatible heatsinks: N/A (don't know)
> Here is a picture:


it has been there for a few months now


----------



## dipanzan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99*
> 
> it has been there for a few months now


I must be blind.









Sorry I looked at the AM3 boards only, please delete that post.


----------



## miniterror

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> not always, some 4+1 have poor quality transistors. i had foxconn destroyer witch is 4+1 and had an OCed Deneb 940 because it had a heat sink and decent quality VRMs. now if you have an msi with high VRM failure rate and you have no heat sink you should definitely touch one of the vrms and see how warm it is, definitely take care to hold your finger on there for a good minute or 2.


to be honest i have no idea about my board.
on the package it shows mega oc logos etc so i assume dit whas correct.
unfortionally i didnt know this site when i bought the system.
i saw a cooling thing next to the cpu socket and always thought that whas good.
but from reading here my vrm isnt cooled at all
i have this board: http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3788&dl=1#ov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771*
> 
> As long as you have ensured VRM cooling on your setup it is totally fine. If not, do that right away for reliable & stable operation!


thanks i will take a look at it if the store i order sells that.
i live in holland so cant use the newegg site for example.
have to go there anyway to get a cpu watercooler


----------



## cdoublejj

there is actually a clip on heat sink you can buy i can't tell which one you need but, i think xd_1771 may know.


----------



## reflex99

Enzotech makes one.

measure the holes first, then buy the one that will fit


----------



## levissimo

sorry,i speak only italian

I was hesitant to buy a new mb
for 960t @ X6 unlockable CPU on my old mb and rocksolid

gigabyte ga-990xa-UD3 (8 +2 phase standard)
or
Asus M5A970 Pro (6 +2 phase digital)
Having regard to the price equal
no crossfire o sli

recommendations?


----------



## reflex99

the 990XA-UD3 is a better board.


----------



## Aniket

Is msi 790fx gd70 good for running a x4 955 BE @4.2ghz stable,I'm getting an incredible deal on that mobo so I wanna buy it.
Dont have a budget for new mobo.
Sold of my gigabyte 880gm usb3 cuz I dont get anything above 3.7ghz stable.


----------



## cdoublejj

well if it is like any other GD70 board then no not really i'd put some heat sinks on it and ask before OCing


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aniket*
> 
> Is msi 790fx gd70 good for running a x4 955 BE @4.2ghz stable,I'm getting an incredible deal on that mobo so I wanna buy it.
> Dont have a budget for new mobo.
> Sold of my gigabyte 880gm usb3 cuz I dont get anything above 3.7ghz stable.


for X4's it is fine. One of the better Deneb overclocking boards.

X6 = NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


----------



## 0razor1

On a 990fxa-g65 msi board here and its given me much better stability on these parts : (against my older heatsinked 8-phase 785gm-tdv-evo (Asus))

CPU: 3.95GHz vs 3.7 earlier
CPU-NB :2.73Ghz @ 1.288V vs 2.5GHz earlier
RAM: 1650Mhz @8-9-9 1N vs 1600 9-9-9 2N earlier

So there's no way all of their boards are bad :/


----------



## 0razor1

On a 990fxa-g65 msi board here and its given me much better stability on these parts : (against my older heatsinked 8-phase 785gm-tdv-evo (Asus))

CPU: 3.95GHz vs 3.7 earlier
CPU-NB :2.73Ghz @ 1.288V vs 2.5GHz earlier
RAM: 1650Mhz @8-9-9 1N vs 1600 9-9-9 2N earlier

So there's no way all of their boards are bad :/


----------



## ShadoWolf551

To update, The AsRock M3A77DE. I'm pretty sure it's the M3A770DE 140W cpu support 4+1 phase.


----------



## philhalo66

Here is some Info on the ASrock AOD 790GX/128M

Phases: 4+1
Heatsinked: No
CPU TDP: 140W
CPU power plug: 8-pin
Compatible heatsinks: MOS-C1

its worth noting even with my cpu unlocked and overclocked my mosfets don't even get that hot i guess tops out at 42-44C during very CPU intensive apps.


----------



## Aniket

Insted of msi 790fx gd70 I went with Asus m5a97 pro,
I'm using x4 955 BE and want 4.2ghz stable(I know oc varies chip to chip) so can anyone tell me all the voltage settings I should use?
Like cpu voltage,cpu/nb voltage,nb voltage,cpu vdda voltage,ht voltage,sb voltage,nb 1.8v voltage etc.


----------



## juneau78

thx for the infos, no wonder i got bad OC with my board.
i use msi 890fxa-gd70 with x6 1100t.

any recommendation board if i still want to use my x6?


----------



## LtStinger

Can someone please analyze the ECS A790GXM-A? I am having trouble finding much info on this board.

I am currently running a 955 C3 on it with 4 Slots of RAM filled (sig rig)

Taking heed to xd_1771 and I'm still unsure about my board. I do have significant airflow, and I think I could use a PSU upgrade. Any thoughts?

Here's a link:
http://www.ecs.com.tw/ECSWebSite/Product/Product_Detail.aspx?DetailID=901&CategoryID=1&MenuID=20&LanID=9


----------



## xd_1771

That looks like a (rather weirdly staggered/positioned) 4+1 phase setup under a heatsink. Not bad I guess if the component quality underneath those heatsinks is decent, but I don't know that. Hmm.

Quote:


> any recommendation board if i still want to use my x6?


Definitely consider a switch-out as the 890FXA-GD70 is known for failures with overclocked x6. What is your intended budget and board feature needs? i.e. single card, dual card, etc? May help to fill out and set your signature PC so we can get more info about your setup.


----------



## juneau78

im considering switch-out to Crosshair V or GA 990fxa-ud7 coz im also planning to upgrade to fx chip.
between those two, which one gives more stability in oc?

sorry, just a noob question


----------



## Schmuckley

ch V...The sabertooth is good,too Of notable mention:m4a89gtd-pro and biostar ta990fxe


----------



## LtStinger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771*
> 
> That looks like a (rather weirdly staggered/positioned) 4+1 phase setup under a heatsink. Not bad I guess if the component quality underneath those heatsinks is decent, but I don't know that. Hmm.


So in my case, should I consider getting some more active cooling for the VRMs? Besides just spot cooling with a random fan, what kind of setups can be found for active cooling (air) such a weirdly staggered/positioned board? Do they make specific VRM cooling heatsink/fan combos similar to a CPU setup?


----------



## xd_1771

^ If they are too hot to run passive.


----------



## Imprezzion

How are the VRM's on a AsRock 990FX Extreme4? List sais they are 8+2 and OK for 140w CPU OC. That correct as i'm pushing a 1100T pretty high on the vcore as in 1.50-1.53v 24/7 and up to 1.70v for benches and i NEED a stable voltage line









I am thinking of getting a *blue toned* AM3+ board with UEFI and better PCI-E layout and the AsRock fits the profile.

So does the Gigabyte 990FX D3. Hows the VRM's and overclocking ability on that?
EDIT: Seems to be weaker as it's only 4+1..

Or maybe some other board with proper VRM's? Suggestions?

I really like what i'm seeing with the Fatal1ty AsRock but it's not blue


----------



## sixor

i had courage then upped my oc

on the 4+1 giga 785g ush2 no heatsinked

4ghz 965be c3 @ 1.47
2600nb @ 1.3

tons of 3dmarks passes, games, did not blew XD


----------



## xd_1771

The D3 has no VRM cooling on it..... so it's not very overclocking ready.

I don't recommend keeping that US2H overclock that way for a long time or putting any ridiculous stress on your CPU such as extended stress tests since it is a very low end 4+1 phase 3-transistor setup with low capacity and you can expect high heat levels and/or quick degradation, even with proper cooling. For those purposes and a 965, you should ideally be using a different motherboard with a quality VRM setup.


----------



## sixor

yeah thanks, but until this thing dies i won´t upgrade, i might help a little bit XD

my pc has cnq on, and i do basic stuff most of the time so there is not much stress until i play some games

but 90% of the time the pc is idling with web, word, basic stuff,

it had [email protected] for more than a year


----------



## guitar_man_94

Purely in terms of overclocking and vrm design which is better. The Gigabyte 990FXA UD3 or the ASRock 990FX Extreme4?
I notice that the Extreme4 has a larger vrm heatsink that is heatpiped to the northbridge heatsink and also has a vrm fan.


----------



## BinaryDemon

Here's my question- even if a board has poor power-phase and VRM cooling, as long as you maintain voltage at stock levels is there any risk from overclocking a little? Like if I have an AthlonII X2 250 (3.0ghz) that can do 3.6ghz @ stock voltage, is there really any additional stress on the motherboard? I can see the CPU putting out a little more heat, but I can't see why it would stress the VRM's more than normal.


----------



## reflex99

very little risk of failure if everything is stock.

Raising CPU Speed (i could be wrong here) does seem to add more stress i would think.

Without raising voltage though, I'd say it is rather safe.


----------



## Adrenaline

Very Helpful Thanks


----------



## cdoublejj

I'm assuming by ASUS M3A78-EM/VM that includes the ASUS M3A78-EM? which would mean it is a 4+1.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131324

Would any of those Enzotech heatsinks fit?


----------



## ryan w

Hey man I have a m series asus that is 4+1 yours appears to be as well, but the M3 series and the M4 series use different mosfets and chokes by the looks of it.

Figured I would throw in some shots of some air cooling mods i did....of coarse this board would certainly be fried if it was not for the VRM protection built into the board

I cut down MOS C10's that's why the look all crooked and discolored (dont ever try this it sucked lol) buy a few packs of the MOS C1'S and put them on all the mosfets


----------



## cdoublejj

Thankx, i will most definitely add VRM sinks. I have some smaller heat sinks cut down or i will install Zalman Vram heat sinks.


----------



## cdoublejj

question is the asrock extreme 3 990fx just the 4 phase version of the extreme 4 or does it actually have different/better mosfets.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> question is the asrock extreme 3 990fx just the 4 phase version of the extreme 4 or does it actually have different/better mosfets.


I would imagine they are different. It is extremely rare for a manufacturer to just cut the number of phases.

Although, I have no confirmation for this.


----------



## Adrenaline

Hey Guys,

Im doing a build for later on in the year and i was wondering with this motherboard - Asus M5A78L-M/USB3

Would i be able to overclock a FX 6100 ? I already know to be safe when overclocking you are meant to have a Heatsink on the VRM's But as the 6100 has a TDP of 95w and the motherboard has a total TDP of 140w would it be a good idea to overclock the processor to mabey 3.8Ghz or should i leave it stock ?

Thanks in advance !


----------



## ironmaiden

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adrenaline*
> 
> Hey Guys,
> Im doing a build for later on in the year and i was wondering with this motherboard - Asus M5A78L-M/USB3
> Would i be able to overclock a FX 6100 ? I already know to be safe when overclocking you are meant to have a Heatsink on the VRM's But as the 6100 has a TDP of 95w and the motherboard has a total TDP of 140w would it be a good idea to overclock the processor to mabey 3.8Ghz or should i leave it stock ?
> Thanks in advance !


I think that is a 3+1 phase I would not OC too much on that.


----------



## Adrenaline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ironmaiden*
> 
> I think that is a 3+1 phase I would not OC too much on that.


Hmm... Im not sure but on the vrm info list it says it is a 4+1 But anyway what do you think the max i should Overclock too?


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Adrenaline*
> 
> Hey Guys,
> Im doing a build for later on in the year and i was wondering with this motherboard - Asus M5A78L-M/USB3
> Would i be able to overclock a FX 6100 ? I already know to be safe when overclocking you are meant to have a Heatsink on the VRM's But as the 6100 has a TDP of 95w and the motherboard has a total TDP of 140w would it be a good idea to overclock the processor to mabey 3.8Ghz or should i leave it stock ?
> Thanks in advance !


if it is anything like other low end ASUS boards, it will throttle and stuff well before it harms the board.

Overclocking a 6100 would probably hit the throttle pretty quick.


----------



## xd_1771

The /USB3 uses a 4+1 phase system.. be sure to keep your VRMs cooled and it might mitigate the time before you run into any problems.


----------



## Adrenaline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99*
> 
> if it is anything like other low end ASUS boards, it will throttle and stuff well before it harms the board.
> Overclocking a 6100 would probably hit the throttle pretty quick.


Okay thanks for the reply








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771*
> 
> The /USB3 uses a 4+1 phase system.. be sure to keep your VRMs cooled and it might mitigate the time before you run into any problems.


I might get a spare fan that i could put blowing at the vrms but im not sure , to be on the safe side i think its probably best not to overclock haha , thanks for the reply.


----------



## BWG

Psst.... I just love to push the issue









Asus M5A78LM LX Plus here with an X6 folded 24/7 for 4 weeks straight with ram sinks on the VRM's and a 120mm fan blowing on them. The X6 was overclocked to 3.9GHz with 1.525v vcore and 1.35v through the CPU NB. The board is still going strong until the


----------



## xd_1771

Until the







!?

What could that mean









Are you sure there isn't any protective throttling ongoing? Bear in mind that with this board you could be losing points without noticing.... I know it's fun but you might want to swap it out before the Chimp Challenge. There probably wouldn't be any explosion to watch anyway, as the board is equipped with over-current protection.


----------



## BWG

The board is not throttling at all, I watch it in CPU-Z. The clock speed stays right around where I set it. My LLC is set at 12.9%. My vcore increases .125v under load, no more, no less. I thought for sure I would fry the board by now!

Where did you guys locate the power phase spec for the board? I searched everywhere trying to find it for the Plus version. I could not find anything published.

You missed me didn't you?







Remember that Gigabyte board I had with the X4 that I put RAM sinks on? It is still alive and well with a new owner.

Edit:

I sold my Antec 920 and put a 212+ on it. Now I have this little cpu fan running full throttle:


----------



## xd_1771

I don't find CPU-Z to be an accurate measurement for clock speed changes..... I often don't see my processor downclocks in real-time in CPU-Z and I have Cool'n'Quiet on. There's usually quite a delay or it does not show up.

The M5A PLUS should have the same internal design as the M5A (bar the plus) alongside the M4A series boards, none of which even have a 125W TDP rating (hence the one on this board is likely a mistake) and have been proven to undergo OCP with cooling present.

Keep on with the testing, I guess!


----------



## ironmaiden

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BWG*
> 
> The board is not throttling at all, I watch it in CPU-Z. The clock speed stays right around where I set it. My LLC is set at 12.9%. My vcore increases .125v under load, no more, no less. I thought for sure I would fry the board by now!
> 
> Where did you guys locate the power phase spec for the board? I searched everywhere trying to find it for the Plus version. I could not find anything published.
> 
> You missed me didn't you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember that Gigabyte board I had with the X4 that I put RAM sinks on? It is still alive and well with a new owner.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> I sold my Antec 920 and put a 212+ on it. Now I have this little cpu fan running full throttle:


Hey you copied cheater cheater







even I have small fan sitting on the VRM's


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> I'm assuming by ASUS M3A78-EM/VM that includes the ASUS M3A78-EM? which would mean it is a 4+1.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131324
> Would any of those Enzotech heatsinks fit?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ryan w*
> 
> Hey man I have a m series asus that is 4+1 yours appears to be as well, but the M3 series and the M4 series use different mosfets and chokes by the looks of it.
> Figured I would throw in some shots of some air cooling mods i did....of coarse this board would certainly be fried if it was not for the VRM protection built into the board
> I cut down MOS C10's that's why the look all crooked and discolored (dont ever try this it sucked lol) buy a few packs of the MOS C1'S and put them on all the mosfets


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> Thankx, i will most definitely add VRM sinks. I have some smaller heat sinks cut down or i will install Zalman Vram heat sinks.


----------



## ryan w

Nice Work! looks like progress in keeping mosfet's cool. Looks cool to!

Have you noticed that there is still 2 mosfets per phase that still do not have heatsinks on them? The ones parallel with the i/o ports?

Edit: oh and some individual heatsinks for each mosfet cool more efficiently than using one large one, according to the masses from OCN when I was working on this project


----------



## cdoublejj

Those looks like mosfet drivers to me, I think cooling off the transistors is the biggest issue. Also the best part is the cpu fan exhasuts it's air right over the mosfets and heat sinks, all it needs now is an 80mm fan installed, in the case it would be next to the 4 pin, to suck out all the heat from mosfet area.


----------



## Krusher33

Are aluminum sinks fine or should we focus on getting copper ones?


----------



## cdoublejj

Copper is good at conducting heat, aluminum is good at dissipating heat. Based on that i'd say aluminum would be best for the vrms that run hot, or any thing with active cooling blowing over it.


----------



## Krusher33

Didn't think of it that way. Thanks!

Crap... I didn't realized my board already has sinks on them till I saw the chart in OP. :-/ Is the stock heatsink on M4A785TD-V Evo good or do folks replace them with aftermarket ones?


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krusher33*
> 
> Didn't think of it that way. Thanks!
> Crap... I didn't realized my board already has sinks on them till I saw the chart in OP. :-/ Is the stock heatsink on M4A785TD-V Evo good or do folks replace them with aftermarket ones?


Not only is that an average/decent heat sink that is 8+2 phase,so unless your gonna push it to the limit, yes that heatsink is good enough.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> Copper is good at conducting heat, aluminum is good at dissipating heat. Based on that i'd say aluminum would be best for the vrms that run hot, or any thing with out active cooling blowing over it.


Sorry, I don't think that makes too much sense?,,
What exactly are you saying? That aluminum to air heat transfer is better? Why would that be?


----------



## BWG

I never have trouble with aluminum. I did put a heat probe on some arctic cooling sinks and enzotec on the same board running prime. It was a while ago but copper was 1C lower if that. I think the advantage would be greater if the sinks were larger though.


----------



## Krusher33

Thanks BWG. Helpful as always.

I would think more fins the better too.


----------



## BWG

Just taking care of the folders


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> Sorry, I don't think that makes too much sense?,,
> What exactly are you saying? That aluminum to air heat transfer is better? Why would that be?


It is the way the atoms that make up aluminum interact with each other. physics ftw. Also if copper is busy collecting heat how can it let it go?

Also I will be really really nice and share a secret with you.

You can't make cold you can only take away heat.

Don''t say you can point to your refrigerator because it uses freon and freon works by removing heat, cold on side and really hot on the other.

Heat is when atoms bump into each other.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> It is the way the atoms that make up aluminum interact with each other. physics ftw. Also if copper is busy collecting heat how can it let it go?
> Also I will be really really nice and share a secret with you.
> You can't make cold you can only take away heat.
> Don''t say you can point to your refrigerator because it uses freon and freon works by removing heat, cold on side and really hot on the other.
> Heat is when atoms bump into each other.


My dad is a mechanic (all sorts of, actually







) and I've taken my love for physics from him, so I know all that









My point was - if die -> copper interaction is so good and heat transfers between copper atoms so good, why in the seven Hells wouldn't it transfer as good to the air?


----------



## ryan w

good stuff! so my lay understanding says copper is more dense, so it will hold the heat/absorb the heat, vs aluminum being less dense therefor releasing the absorbed heat easier. So overall the copper is ideal since first i need to transfer the heat away from the heatsource, then i can worry about dissipation. But i am no scientist by no means, although as a RN i pay attention to osmotic pressure which seems to have similar properties to heat/energy transfer of atoms, heat energy traveling to less charged area.

after reading around aluminum is used for ease of production (cost) and weight (lighter) as copper is more expensive, heavier, yet 2x better at conduction, ideally you combine the two as seen in heatpipe/fin structure of cpu coolers, or radiators

as well what needs to be done is find carbons ultimate form of diamond to conduct heat HA! appears synthetic copper/diamond heatsinks do exist, as well as heat transfer material

Thermal Conductivity Definition: http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/conductive-heat-transfer-d_428.html
aluminum (1050A): 250 W/m•K
copper: 400 W/m•K
diamond: 2000 W/m•K

sources:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_sink
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/183135-29-copper-aluminium
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html

Heat Sink.ppt 1143k .ppt file


Sorry to derail the VRM thread but this is pertinent to cooling needs of the boards listed in this thread


----------



## Krusher33

Nice work.

What does a throttle due to VRM's temp look like? I've just recently experienced my first one and I'm assuming it's CPU/Socket temps but I want to make sure. What I'm seeing during stress testing is the multiplier dropping down to x7 from x13 for a few seconds and then back up. Doesn't create any errors either though...


----------



## cdoublejj

Copper is good if you have fan blowing over it, aluminum will do decent job without fan. the best combo is a copper base with aluminum fins. If you wanna get really fancey you can also ahve the cooper heat pipes.


----------



## ryan w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krusher33*
> 
> Nice work.
> What does a throttle due to VRM's temp look like? I've just recently experienced my first one and I'm assuming it's CPU/Socket temps but I want to make sure. What I'm seeing during stress testing is the multiplier dropping down to x7 from x13 for a few seconds and then back up. Doesn't create any errors either though...


heres what i learned on my M4785-M/PHxII 940 before i new what throttling was (AMD technical name OCP over current protection)









Processor Power in Watts using HWmonitorPro graphing


http://imgur.com/o4rXS

CPU vcore in volts using HWmonitorPro graphing


http://imgur.com/QCa14

CPU vcore in volts during OCCT using OCCT graphing


http://imgur.com/vqCFQ


----------



## Krusher33

Right, I left that bit out... let me rephrase what I saw:
Overclocked settings, multi x13, vcore 1.4875

multi drops to x7 and vcore drops to 1.275 and then after a few seconds, the multi goes back to 13 and vcore back to 1.4875.

Very visible to see in CoreTemp gadget.


----------



## cdoublejj

you know, technically you can upgrade your VRMs if you have crappy ones.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1259614/nv-gts250-replacment-vrms-success


----------



## BWG

krusher, that is what it looks like on coretemp as long as your cpu load is constant. I assume you are folding the cpu, so yes, you need some additional VRM cooling.


----------



## Krusher33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BWG*
> 
> krusher, that is what it looks like on coretemp as long as your cpu load is constant. I assume you are folding the cpu, so yes, you need some additional VRM cooling.


Yeah it does stay at 100% load. It's just the multi + voltage dropping a bit. I'm assuming it's for the temps though. The more I watch it, the more I realize that it does it when temp0 in HWMonitor hits 62 degrees which, if I understand right, on AMD systems is the socket's temp and the motherboard uses that to gauge the processor's temps.


----------



## cdoublejj

I've always wondered what those "Temp X" were/are


----------



## Aslam Khan

*ECS Geforce 6100pm - m2*

Can i get any kind of overclocking done on this board?


----------



## xd_1771

3-phase power... very weak 3-phase power. It really depends on the processor you use but if anything high TDP, stop where you are.


----------



## MrPerforations

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aslam Khan*
> 
> *ECS Geforce 6100pm - m2*
> Can i get any kind of overclocking done on this board?


hello,

it a board for a triple core cpu thus the 3 power phases.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrPerforations*
> 
> hello,
> it a board for a triple core cpu thus the 3 power phases.


The above is completely and totally false.


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrPerforations*
> 
> hello,
> it a board for a triple core cpu thus the 3 power phases.


10/10 would What The Heck again.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrPerforations*
> 
> hello,
> it a board for a triple core cpu thus the 3 power phases.


Lost you are, young padawan


----------



## MrPerforations

how?
please explain why iam wrong?
i have 6+2 phase board and it will not deliever enough power to clock anywhere near the speed 99fx with 8+2 will get?
also the max speed of a the cpu range has to be accounted for,which is why i tell people that.my board can handle a 8150 and supply enough power to run it.

i mean by design the 99fx 8+2 is ment for the 8150/8170 chip,it must be?
what my mobo is for is the 3.8ghz fx-6200 chip.

iam not trying to argue,i just dont understand.


----------



## ryan w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrPerforations*
> 
> how?
> please explain why iam wrong?
> i have 6+2 phase board and it will not deliever enough power to clock anywhere near the speed 99fx with 8+2 will get?
> also the max speed of a the cpu range has to be accounted for,which is why i tell people that.my board can handle a 8150 and supply enough power to run it.
> i mean by design the 99fx 8+2 is ment for the 8150/8170 chip,it must be?
> what my mobo is for is the 3.8ghz fx-6200 chip.
> iam not trying to argue,i just dont understand.


Have a read man, all you need to know about voltage regulating modules (VRM"S)








http://www.overclock.net/a/about-vrms-mosfets-motherboard-safety-with-high-tdp-processors


----------



## MrPerforations

Cheers man,that makes a lot more sence.
theres a msi board on the list thats a got a single phase but can run a i7 2600?


----------



## ryan w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrPerforations*
> 
> Cheers man,that makes a lot more sence.
> theres a msi board on the list thats a got a single phase but can run a i7 2600?


not exactly each one of those listings has a link, here is the link for that one:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?267709-MSI-Active-Phase-Control-blowing&p=4778528&viewfull=1#post4778528

this board had a option to turn off phases, this owner set the board to a single phase, and it blew up multiple components

if you search the actual board it will tell how many phases and although it says i7 what this means is it has a 1155 socket good for i3/i5/i7. MSI markets this board to take the chip when in fact it is a cheap board that could very well not run an i7 without overheating

Edit: this appears to be a good board not crap as previously stated, but has a bios option to turn off phases....1 phase equals cooked!


----------



## MrPerforations

bet he wishes he had asked about it before hand.


----------



## reflex99

probably not one of his smartest moments.


----------



## Kyronn94

I've got 2 systems I'd like to check with you guys.

System 1 Sig Rig:
Asus M4A88T-V EVO
Phenom II x4 955
NH-D14 (not using the 140mm fan, so less 'component cooling')
2 120mm exhaust fans around the CPU area

I've been running 3.6GHz at 1.4V for a while now, but I've been pushing it since I got my D14.
I can get 4GHz with about 1.47 to 1.49 vcore, but my VRM heat sink gets VERY hot to the touch under prime95 load.
I was wondering if this is a safe setup, and what I could do to keep them cooler?
Is it possible to change the TIM or something on a VRM heat sink?

I may change the Motherboard in this system in preparation for Piledriver, but I'm unsure about this at the moment.

System 2 LAN/[email protected] Rig:
Asus M5A78L-USB3
Athlon II x3 425 (Unlocked to Phenom II x4)
NH-C14 (Down draft style cooler directly over VRM's)
EnzoTech MOS-C1 heat sinks on VRM's
1 92mm exhaust fan around the CPU area

Currently running 3.375GHz on 4 cores with 1.44 to 1.45 Vcore.
Is this a safe setup?

I can upload some pictures if necessary.

Thanks in advance.


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyronn94*
> 
> I've got 2 systems I'd like to check with you guys.
> System 1 Sig Rig:
> Asus M4A88T-V EVO
> Phenom II x4 955
> NH-D14 (not using the 140mm fan, so less 'component cooling')
> 2 120mm exhaust fans around the CPU area
> I've been running 3.6GHz at 1.4V for a while now, but I've been pushing it since I got my D14.
> I can get 4GHz with about 1.47 to 1.49 vcore, but my VRM heat sink gets VERY hot to the touch under prime95 load.
> I was wondering if this is a safe setup, and what I could do to keep them cooler?
> Is it possible to change the TIM or something on a VRM heat sink?
> I may change the Motherboard in this system in preparation for Piledriver, but I'm unsure about this at the moment.
> System 2 LAN/[email protected] Rig:
> Asus M5A78L-USB3
> Athlon II x3 425 (Unlocked to Phenom II x4)
> NH-C14 (Down draft style cooler directly over VRM's)
> EnzoTech MOS-C1 heat sinks on VRM's
> 1 92mm exhaust fan around the CPU area
> Currently running 3.375GHz on 4 cores with 1.44 to 1.45 Vcore.
> Is this a safe setup?
> I can upload some pictures if necessary.
> Thanks in advance.


About the first one - yeah, I think it's safe. Those should be able to withstand 100C.
I recall of one case when Asus forgot some piece of plastic or nylon underneath the VRM heatsink. If you can take it off, it would be good to check if everything is ok in that regard


----------



## Kyronn94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> About the first one - yeah, I think it's safe. Those should be able to withstand 100C.
> I recall of one case when Asus forgot some piece of plastic or nylon underneath the VRM heatsink. If you can take it off, it would be good to check if everything is ok in that regard


That's good to know.

I'm not sure how I would go about removing the heatsink though, I believe that i's held on with push pins?
Has anyone done this before?

Also, bump for system 2


----------



## ryan w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyronn94*
> 
> That's good to know.
> I'm not sure how I would go about removing the heatsink though, I believe that i's held on with push pins?
> Has anyone done this before?
> Also, bump for system 2


Hey man, I do not own either board, but I have owned a M4 series, I never had a VRM heatsink, so not sure what the process is for removal/install of this part, but I did replace thermal compound on the NB and SB chips

looking at pictures of both your boards it appears the Asus M5A78L-USB3 does not have a heatsink over the VRM area where the M4A88T-V EVO has a VRM heatsink as well as beefier NB/SB heatsinks. In my experience OC the Phenom II x 4 using anything over 1.45 volts causes over temp protection (throttling) to kick in unless you have some type of passive cooling on the mosfets.

In case you feel like messing around with heatsinks this is a shot of my M4785-M board with NB and SB heatsink removed


Spoiler: M4785-M w/ heatsinks removed







What I found on this M4 series board was:

- I removed both heatsinks, they use relatively small black plastic pushpins, the tabs are on the backside of the MB PCB

- You need to push the head of the pin down, squeeze the plastic pin tabs together on the bottom side of the MB then allow it to push through

- Be careful to not scrape any traces on the back of MB PCB if you use needle nose to compress the plastic pin head. I did scrape it, and was lucky the MB still worked.

- Carefully remove the heatsink, it will feel stuck to the chip. This is because there is a adhesive like thermal compound on the chip surface itself which is a pain to clean up but its possible

-There is also a foam spacer that surrounds the chip mating surface on the heatsink, be careful not to ruin this when using a alcohol based cleaner because it is needed as a spacer

- Once both chip and heatsink were clean I spread some spare Noctua NT-H1 with a card and remounted heatsinks by simply pushing the pins back through the board

Prior to doing this both the NB and SB heatsink where burn finger hot, after I saw improvement. I also installed another stick-on heatsink on top of the existing SB heatsink


Spoiler: M4785-M after heatsinks installed







*EDIT:*

Here is a good view of the EVO with heatsink removed but no info given of removal process:
http://www.techenclave.com/reviews-previews/asus-m4a88td-v-evo-usb3-105620/

This link has some good shots of removed heatsink off a different asus board:
http://www.clunk.org.uk/reviews/asus-p8p67-deluxe-motherboard-review/print.html
looks like it comes right off as there is just thermal pads!

Check out the quote from XD1771 about the M5A78L-M, this guy is experiencing over temp protection = add passive cooling when overclocking
http://www.overclock.net/t/1187426/overcoming-the-shortfalls-of-the-m5a78l-m-usb3-am3/0_20


----------



## Kyronn94

Thanks for the helpful post









Regarding the Asus M5A78L-USB3, I have put some heat sinks on the VRM's, and 1.44 to 1.45 V has been perfectly smooth so far on my folding rig.
Here are some pictures:





Note this also has a C14 cooler on it, so the extra heat sinks also have direct airflow over them.

Do you think I am ok in this situation?

Regarding the Asus M4A88T-V EVO, is it perfectly fine to remove the heat sinks then?
And it shouldn't cause any problems replacing the pads with a thermal paste instead?
Note I only want to do this on the VRM heat sink, not the chipset heat sink, both of the chipsets remain quite cool.

I won't get round to doing this for a while, but I'd like to know what I'm doing









Cheers.


----------



## ryan w

C14 Nice! So you may not even have to take of the VRM heatsink if you are stable with no throttling of voltage or core clock. If you do remove it, just check to make sure all the mosfets are contacting the thermal pad, if they are then I would just reinstall. If not you could purchase new thermal pad material. Use only thermal pads on mosfets, TIM is designed for heat transfer between two metal surfaces.

Oh and get another set of C1's for the M5 there is four mosfets per phase! check out some of my threads on the M4 youll see what i did


----------



## Kyronn94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ryan w*
> 
> C14 Nice! So you may not even have to take of the VRM heatsink if you are stable with no throttling of voltage or core clock. If you do remove it, just check to make sure all the mosfets are contacting the thermal pad, if they are then I would just reinstall. If not you could purchase new thermal pad material. Use only thermal pads on mosfets, TIM is designed for heat transfer between two metal surfaces.
> Oh and get another set of C1's for the M5 there is four mosfets per phase! check out some of my threads on the M4 youll see what i did


I think one of us is getting my 2 rigs confused, not helped by me getting the Motherboard name wrong
















My Main rig is using :
Asus M4A88T-V EVO
NH-D14
Phenom II x4 @3.875GHz 1.47 - 1.49v

With the rig, I'm going to remove the VRM heat sink and reapply to make sure it's getting the right amount of contact.

Me second rig is using:
Asus M5A78L-M/USB3 (It's the mATX one, I do apologise for the confusion








)
NH-C14
MOS-C1 Heat sinks (Pictures posted above)
Phenom II X4 B25 @3.375GHz 1.44 - 1.45v

I hope this clears things up.









Do these two setups look ok?

Thanks again.


----------



## ryan w

Nope I have the boards correct just might be confusing when I note my M4785-M for comparison

This board: http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3Plus/M5A78LMUSB3/#overview
- 3 + 1 phase power with enzotec C1's on only half the mosfets. This is the weak board, you are likely to see throttling when pushing high clocks/voltage like 4GHZ at 1.5v for example
The VRM quality/design is good, but it lacks sufficient phases. I suggest adding more C1's this will help, especially if its a folding rig

This board: http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3/M4A88TV_EVOUSB3/
- 8+2 phase very good board for OC. You can use new thermal pads on the VRM heatsink but i bet it's fine just like it is.


----------



## Kyronn94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ryan w*
> 
> Nope I have the boards correct just might be confusing when I note my M4785-M for comparison
> This board: http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3Plus/M5A78LMUSB3/#overview
> - 3 + 1 phase power with enzotec C1's on only half the mosfets. This is the weak board, you are likely to see throttling when pushing high clocks/voltage like 4GHZ at 1.5v for example
> The VRM quality/design is good, but it lacks sufficient phases. I suggest adding more C1's this will help, especially if its a folding rig
> 
> This board: http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3/M4A88TV_EVOUSB3/
> - 8+2 phase very good board for OC. You can use new thermal pads on the VRM heatsink but i bet it's fine just like it is.


Thank you for the confirmation, I'll look into making those changes


----------



## Cancer

Wasn't there an Intel motherboard thread as well?
I cannot for the life of me find that damned thread.


----------



## ryan w

deleted post


----------



## sunset1

can you tell me if this has a good vrm? I just noticed it tonight on newegg. Im thinking it might be a new revision? or new mobo. Ive been searching these till im blue in the face. :>
thanks
sunset1

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3Plus/M5A99FX_PRO_R20/#specifications


----------



## Kyronn94

Under the 'Special Features' section, it says:

ASUS Digital Power Design :
- Industry leading Digital 6 + 2 Phase CPU Power Design
- Industry leading Digital 2 Phase DRAM Power Design
- CPU Power Utility
- DRAM Power Utility

Considering the 6 + 2 Phase digital Power, and the size of the VRM heat sink, 'd say you're good to go.
It also looks to be Asus's 3rd highest-end board on the AMD side after the Crosshair V and the Sabertooth.
I'd say you're good to go


----------



## dactadork

I have the GA-970A-D3 with an FX-6100 and i am having freezing problems. Does this have to do with the fact that the mosfets are not heatsinked? i noticed the latest revision of my board has heatsinked mosfets.


----------



## sunset1

I just got my fx-8100 and my thermaltake water cooler setup. I have two 550ti cards that i might use so Im looking for a awesome 150+ board to overclock it on.
I have a coolermaster 922 haf case with plenty of room. My main concern so far is the vrm as you posted.
I have 4 sticks of Muskin redline pc1700. If not for that i would have went sabertooth in a hearbeat. The new asus board I just posted has thunderbolt? header and a option for a add in card for futer use. And it supports 2130 memory. or pc1700. I hope im not thread hijacking as the three things i need is good vrm
speedy memory and sli. Please advise if im in the wrong place and ill gladly delete it. :>
thanks for your help.
sunset1


----------



## ryan w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dactadork*
> 
> I have the GA-970A-D3 with an FX-6100 and i am having freezing problems. Does this have to do with the fact that the mosfets are not heatsinked? i noticed the latest revision of my board has heatsinked mosfets.


You should be ok for a FX processor left at stock, however you will want get some passive heatsinks on the mosfets as this board (depending on REV) does not have a built in VRM overtemp protection and is only 4+1 phase
Your board and all rev's is listed in the AM3+ Motherboard Phasing list on page one take a look, also read the resources links at the bottom.
and here is some info from gigabyte on your VRM tech look at the Ultra Durable 2 section: http://www.gigabyte.com/microsite/98/html/technology-guide-ultra-durable-1.htm

As for freezing i can not definitely say what do you mean by freezing? BSOD? if a voltage regulation component is failing you are likely to see a board that will not post due to hardware failure, if ti is a BSOD you likely need more vcore or cpu.nb voltage temperature permitting. Lastly if it is overtemp protection the you will see throttling of the cpu wattage, core voltage, and core clock


----------



## ryan w

Deleted...my bad quoted my own post


----------



## ryan w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sunset1*
> 
> I just got my fx-8100 and my thermaltake water cooler setup. I have two 550ti cards that i might use so Im looking for a awesome 150+ board to overclock it on.
> I have a coolermaster 922 haf case with plenty of room. My main concern so far is the vrm as you posted.
> I have 4 sticks of Muskin redline pc1700. If not for that i would have went sabertooth in a hearbeat. The new asus board I just posted has thunderbolt? header and a option for a add in card for futer use. And it supports 2130 memory. or pc1700. I hope im not thread hijacking as the three things i need is good vrm
> speedy memory and sli. Please advise if im in the wrong place and ill gladly delete it. :>
> thanks for your help.
> sunset1


I am partial to ASUS look for high quality VRMs like digi+ and at least 8+2 phase with passive cooling heatsink, ASUS always has vrm protection as well if you do throw to much power at it it will not cook the mosfets
suggestions:
http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3Plus/M5A99FX_PRO_R20/ list on newegg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131851
http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3Plus/Crosshair_V_Formula/ list on Newegg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131735

Notice one of the differences in these boards is the phase count 6+2 vs 8+2
Oh and you can run RAM higher than 1866 on the Sabertooth you would just have to use the FSB instead of just the multiplier, and its not officially supported by asus but if you look the QVL it lists ram up to 20000MHZ, 2133 could be pushing it not sure maybe post over in the sabertooth forum


----------



## sunset1

thanks a lot. This thread saved me a smoked board!
I returned the gigabyete that i had ordered as it only had 4+1
btw i deciphered the last post thanks! really nice to repost.
I quit trying to buck the trend and decided toget the sabertooth which i ordered last night.
why is it that as a old tech i always try to re-invent the wheel? I know better than to get a rev. 1 motherboard as i have in the past.
There are nice boards out there which always makes the task a bit harder.
In the end my choice was between the crosshair you suggested and the sabertooth. I opted for the sabertooth because of the sturdiness of the board physically, the warranty and the number of people in the survery that have one.
In the past many years i have tried to contrubute to many sites but I always pick one main one. this is my current roost. Great people great advice. so far no hotheads.
thanks again to everyone.
Sunset1


----------



## ryan w

Right on I have always been envious of the sabers temp sensors! and yeah OCN is damn good, but don't worry there is hotheads here to


----------



## sunset1

oh well kinda runs with the territory. Some people are passionate about their ideas. ;>


----------



## Intelship

Random correction, but the TA970XE only has a 4-pin motherboard header.


----------



## LzbeL

Hello, I have a M4A78L-M, a ASUS motherboard with 4 +1 phases. I wonder if this board has the protection "OCP" that protects the high VRM temperatures.

I overclock a Phenom II 965 at 3.8 On this motherboard.


----------



## ryan w

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> Hello, I have a M4A78L-M, a ASUS motherboard with 4 +1 phases. I wonder if this board has the protection "OCP" that protects the high VRM temperatures.
> I overclock a Phenom II 965 at 3.8 On this motherboard.


M4A78L-M,
4+1 Phase
No vrm heatsink
125W TDP
125W, OC w/cooling
phase design 2 transistor, 2 driver
4 pin 12v power connector
mATX form factor

these are the specs listed in the spreadsheet for your board. I am not 100% sure of this but I believe all the am2 and beyond asus motherboards have OCP built into the bios. I suggest reading the links in the original post about vrm technology and why 4+1 phases boards are not always best suited for OC if you have not yet for a good understanding of what your working with. I have found on my M4A785-M board that passive heatsinks and airflow needed to be provided for anything over 4.5v when using a PHIIx4 940.. Your board is in the same family, but the processor is a step up from mine. It was pointed out to me after finding throttling occurring of 12v power and bus clock during full load that OCP was kicking in. It was also pointed out that this board has quality mosfets that can withstand OC, but it is not the strongest, especially without a vrm heatsink an only using 4 phases. Your board should be similar.


----------



## LzbeL

But the TDP, do not understand ... Let's see, my motherboard supports up to 125W, but my Phenom II 965 and 125 without OC consumed, then to make OC, and is set to more ... then He no longer applies to OC my motherboard?

I am thinking of buying a MOS-C1 for my motherboard. Do you think?


----------



## PunkX 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> But the TDP, do not understand ... Let's see, my motherboard supports up to 125W, but my Phenom II 965 and 125 without OC consumed, then to make OC, and is set to more ... then He no longer applies to OC my motherboard?
> I am thinking of buying a MOS-C1 for my motherboard. Do you think?


Refer to the link "About VRMs and MOSFETs" in my sig.

All ASUS boards have VRM protection







.


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PunkX 1*
> 
> Refer to the link "About VRMs and MOSFETs" in my sig.
> All ASUS boards have VRM protection
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Sorry, I dont speak very much English, and i I do not understand.

Can you answer the question / question I asked?

Thanks.

Edit:

If I understand correctly, says that if I OC, I exceed the 125W, then I should use the VRM heatsinks on the motherboard, right?


----------



## PunkX 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> Sorry, I dont speak very much English, and i I do not understand.
> Can you answer the question / question I asked?
> Thanks.
> Edit:
> If I understand correctly, says that if I OC, I exceed the 125W, then I should use the VRM heatsinks on the motherboard, right?


In short, yes. Get hold of C1s or opt for an active fan over the VRMs


----------



## LzbeL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PunkX 1*
> 
> In short, yes. Get hold of C1s or opt for an active fan over the VRMs


And without heatsinks, there is a risk that is heated and damaged? now I have no heatsinks on the VRM's ... I would like to OC my Phenom II 965 to 3.8, with 2.6GHz NB.


----------



## PunkX 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LzbeL*
> 
> And without heatsinks, there is a risk that is heated and damaged? now I have no heatsinks on the VRM's ... I would like to OC my Phenom II 965 to 3.8, with 2.6GHz NB.


There won't be any damage to the VRMs due it being an ASUS. But you may face throttling issues which will affect overall performance on full load.


----------



## cdoublejj

If I am reading the list correctly this is a 4+1 and is known for problems?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128394

was gonna two packs of Enzotech MOS-C1 to try and help. was looking to safely oc a 65w CPU and support quad or hexa core in the future.


----------



## MeBeTrollin'

Heya









Can you please point the VRMs which I must put cooling on? Cheers









http://www.asus.com/websites/Global/products/B9WLe5U9mVxNwNvL/YCmM7k2kzy3dSKe5_500.jpg


----------



## PunkX 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeBeTrollin'*
> 
> Heya
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you please point the VRMs which I must put cooling on? Cheers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.asus.com/websites/Global/products/B9WLe5U9mVxNwNvL/YCmM7k2kzy3dSKe5_500.jpg


Here ya go


----------



## Axxess+

Hey guys. My motherboard is the one in my sig, it is rated for 125W CPUs. However, I unlocked my X2 550 and I have overclocked it. Using HW Monitor, I can see that at load, it is using about 169.9W.
My mobo sensor tells me the temp is usually at 31C, and it rarely budges. Before unlocking my processor, I had updated my BIOS to the most recent version. Before that my northbridge usually idled at 80C(for real, it was a common issue with my motherboard, I think it was a sensor issue, because at touch it would be warm at best).

So, anyways, right now it's pretty much always @ 31C or so. Is it dangerous to keep my processor at these clocks and all, considering the heavy wattage used, even though my temperatures are seemingly alright?
I also wish to overclock further, and would like to know if it was recommended to do so. My case airflow is pretty good, IMO. I've noticed trying to push my NB farther than 2200Mhz resulted in my computer not POSTing, but that might be because of lack of voltage, and I did not try afterwards with added voltage. My overclocks are stable, tested with 50 passes of LinX, and about 8 hours of P95 Blend(the air cooling setup I've used for that stresstest... oh boy...).


----------



## PunkX 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axxess+*
> 
> Hey guys. My motherboard is the one in my sig, it is rated for 125W CPUs. However, I unlocked my X2 550 and I have overclocked it. Using HW Monitor, I can see that at load, it is using about 169.9W.
> My mobo sensor tells me the temp is usually at 31C, and it rarely budges. Before unlocking my processor, I had updated my BIOS to the most recent version. Before that my northbridge usually idled at 80C(for real, it was a common issue with my motherboard, I think it was a sensor issue, because at touch it would be warm at best).
> So, anyways, right now it's pretty much always @ 31C or so. Is it dangerous to keep my processor at these clocks and all, considering the heavy wattage used, even though my temperatures are seemingly alright?
> I also wish to overclock further, and would like to know if it was recommended to do so. My case airflow is pretty good, IMO. I've noticed trying to push my NB farther than 2200Mhz resulted in my computer not POSTing, but that might be because of lack of voltage, and I did not try afterwards with added voltage. My overclocks are stable, tested with 50 passes of LinX, and about 8 hours of P95 Blend(the air cooling setup I've used for that stresstest... oh boy...).


That board is relatively ok for overclocking BUT only with VRM cooling. Do you have any?


----------



## Axxess+

Where would the VRM area be located? I figured my current airflow would be enough. I have 60mm fans, I just don't know where to play one, or how to.


----------



## PunkX 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axxess+*
> 
> Where would the VRM area be located? I figured my current airflow would be enough. I have 60mm fans, I just don't know where to play one, or how to.


These are your VRMs



My setup:


----------



## Axxess+

Should i put it so it blows air on it, or exhaust its hot air? Does it even make a difference?


----------



## cdoublejj

just have going/blowing over them.


----------



## Axxess+

I don't quite know how to fix a fan to that area, really.. :/
With the VRM being so close to my heatsink and 2 exhausts fans, it seems space is really limited.
How have you fixed yours?
(this picture is not up to date, got a new GTX560SE







)


----------



## PunkX 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axxess+*
> 
> 
> I don't quite know how to fix a fan to that area, really.. :/
> With the VRM being so close to my heatsink and 2 exhausts fans, it seems space is really limited.
> How have you fixed yours?
> (this picture is not up to date, got a new GTX560SE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Turn the CPU cooler sideways to help clear some space, Attach a small fan over the VRMs using zipties. I've super-glued two sides of the fan on top of the VGA nd DVI connectors.

Here's a better look at my setup. My Hyper is sideways as well.


----------



## Axxess+

I can't turn my heatsink sideways, that's the issue :/
It can only be placed that way, I think. The mounting system only allowed for that position.
Would it be safe for me to let the fan sit on my GPU's PCB, pointing towards the VRM area?


----------



## PunkX 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axxess+*
> 
> I can't turn my heatsink sideways, that's the issue :/
> It can only be placed that way, I think. The mounting system only allowed for that position.
> Would it be safe for me to let the fan sit on my GPU's PCB, pointing towards the VRM area?


That really won't help much and is risky as well. Why not get a hold of VRM heatsinks then?


----------



## Axxess+

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PunkX 1*
> 
> That really won't help much and is risky as well. Why not get a hold of VRM heatsinks then?


Hmm. Like those?


----------



## PunkX 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axxess+*
> 
> Hmm. Like those?


Precisely


----------



## Schmuckley

fan to cool vrms


----------



## PunkX 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Schmuckley*
> 
> 
> fan to cool vrms


You need to work on ya paintbrushin' skills Shmuck


----------



## Catscratch

Yep, 2 sets of those heatsinks should be enough. You got 2x12cm side fans right ? There should be enough air circulation around there.


----------



## Axxess+

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Catscratch*
> 
> Yep, 2 sets of those heatsinks should be enough. You got 2x12cm side fans right ? There should be enough air circulation around there.


This'll be my next buy! For the moment, i,d guess it's okay, I didn't play on OC'ing further... for now!
And as yu said, I have pretty good airflow, especially in that area. I have only one side fan though, I ogt the window side panel for the CM690. However, in my picture you can see the proximity of my top and back exhaust fan, which should help further.
I would've liked a sensor for the VRM on my mobo...


----------



## Axxess+

I've used a lasert thermometer to figure out my VRM temps at load, and they're around 60 to 65C.
Are these temps safe? Let me rephrase that, are these temps high enough for it to be considered an urgent need for some active cooling?
If so, I will lower my overclock until I get my new mounts for my heatsink.


----------



## Axxess+

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axxess+*
> 
> I've used a lasert thermometer to figure out my VRM temps at load, and they're around 60 to 65C.
> Are these temps safe? Let me rephrase that, are these temps high enough for it to be considered an urgent need for some active cooling?
> If so, I will lower my overclock until I get my new mounts for my heatsink.


I hate to do this, but bump?








I'd like to know if I should lower my overclock until I get active cooling or if I can go on, but not push it further until I get said cooling.


----------



## cdoublejj

better safe than sorry?


----------



## xd_1771

Did you measure all the chips? Some may be hotter than others.


----------



## philhalo66

Here is my ASRock Board

ASRock AOD790GX/128M
AM2/AM2+/AM3
Phases: 4+1
Heatsinked: No
CPU TDP: 140W
CPU power plug: 8-pin
Compatible heatsinks: MOS-C1


----------



## Redwoodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axxess+*
> 
> I've used a lasert thermometer to figure out my VRM temps at load, and they're around 60 to 65C.
> Are these temps safe? Let me rephrase that, are these temps high enough for it to be considered an urgent need for some active cooling?
> If so, I will lower my overclock until I get my new mounts for my heatsink.


60-65c is fine

Also, you should get the Xigmatek crossbow cooler mount,it will allow you to turn your heatsink sideways
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835233090


----------



## xd_1771

Heads up: reflex and I are updating the OP to include a Socket FM2 list.


----------



## reflex99

yea it's there now


----------



## sunset1

Just a quick THANK YOU for all of your efforts in this area. A couple of months after my build and this baby is rock solid.
Sunset1


----------



## Cheezman

Hey guys,

I have a ASRock 960GM/U3S3 that I want to run a Phenom 955, 965, or an FX 4100 with, however, if I overclock any of them, am I just asking for the thing to turn in to a fireball, or would adding cooling for the MOSFETs be sufficient enough to allow safe overclocking? My system is very much a work in progress, so specs listed in my sig are merely temporary.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/960GMU3S3%20FX/


----------



## reflex99

at stock it is rather unlikely that anything bad will happen


----------



## xd_1771

^ I would have a hard time recommending that you run any 125W TDP processor on that anyway due to the lower phase count. Not that stock speed operation should be out of safe territory but, for sure, if you're going to overclock, *invest in something better*.
Because, all I can see from looking at this board is that it was not designed for it.


----------



## Cheezman

So basically, I should go with an FX4100 (95w tdp) and leave it alone? Upgrading the motherboard (which I just bought) is out of the question, maybe in November or December, but not sooner. I'm just worried that the 4100 will bottleneck any GPU I upgrade to without overclocking.

I'm still going to put heatsinks on the VRMs to help lower temps, even if it's just by a hair.


----------



## PunkX 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cheezman*
> 
> So basically, I should go with an FX4100 (95w tdp) and leave it alone? Upgrading the motherboard (which I just bought) is out of the question, maybe in November or December, but not sooner. I'm just worried that the 4100 will bottleneck any GPU I upgrade to without overclocking.
> I'm still going to put heatsinks on the VRMs to help lower temps, even if it's just by a hair.


You'd best leave the 4100 on stock (if you plan to use that board, even with heatsinks) because FX chips (the 4100 included) are real power hogs when overclocked









Bottleneck? It really depends on what GPU you're planning on using with the chip.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cheezman*
> 
> Hey guys,
> I have a ASRock 960GM/U3S3 that I want to run a Phenom 955, 965, or an FX 4100 with, however, if I overclock any of them, am I just asking for the thing to turn in to a fireball, or would adding cooling for the MOSFETs be sufficient enough to allow safe overclocking? My system is very much a work in progress, so specs listed in my sig are merely temporary.
> http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/960GMU3S3%20FX/


Don't do that. That board is a 3+1 phase, and even if you heatsink the MOSFETs, you're asking for trouble because a 3+1 simply cannot deliver the kind of power that an overclocked AMD quad-core chip needs. It will either throttle under load, crash constantly, or go poof in the night and probably take the rest of your hardware with it. That motherboard is OK for anything it's rated for at stock speeds, but not good at all for overclocking.

I'd flip that board on a swap list somewhere, and pick up either an 8+2 board or a 4+1 that's rated for overclocking. There are a ton of choices out there.


----------



## Cheezman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Don't do that. That board is a 3+1 phase, and even if you heatsink the MOSFETs, you're asking for trouble because a 3+1 simply cannot deliver the kind of power that an overclocked AMD quad-core chip needs. It will either throttle under load, crash constantly, or go poof in the night and probably take the rest of your hardware with it. That motherboard is OK for anything it's rated for at stock speeds, but not good at all for overclocking.
> I'd flip that board on a swap list somewhere, and pick up either an 8+2 board or a 4+1 that's rated for overclocking. There are a ton of choices out there.


Unfortunately, there just aren't many AM3+ MicroATX options that have SATA3.

How about this board? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131758
It appears to have a pretty robust VRM section.


----------



## PunkX 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cheezman*
> 
> Unfortunately, there just aren't many AM3+ MicroATX options that have SATA3.
> How about this board? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131758
> It appears to have a pretty robust VRM section.


Actually, this would be your best bet if you can live without SATA 3







- http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=75286


----------



## Cheezman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PunkX 1*
> 
> Actually, this would be your best bet if you can live without SATA 3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=75286


So, other than price, why that over the ASUS?


----------



## PunkX 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cheezman*
> 
> So, other than price, why that over the ASUS?


Because it comes with heatsinks for the VRMs









Probably THE best AMD mATX option right now.


----------



## Cheezman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PunkX 1*
> 
> Because it comes with heatsinks for the VRMs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Probably THE best AMD mATX option right now.


Fair enough. After some research, I guess I can live without SATA3. The reason I wanted it is because I want to get an SSD, but, the performance difference is actually pretty minor. The motherboard not melting is more important.

I'm going to try and RMA the ASRock and get the Gigabyte. Newegg is generally pretty good about RMAs, or so I hear; never actually had to return anything with them before.

Thanks for the help!

*EDIT:* Wait. That motherboard doesn't even support the 965. The only reason I would have gone with the 4100 is because of it's lower power rating for use with the ASRock. So, any other options? 955 is supported, so, I guess I can just go with that.


----------



## KarathKasun

Just a correction to the data in the spreadsheets, ECS 790GX boards (AM2+ an AM3) are 4+1 phases. They look like 3 in the pictures because of the odd choke/cap arrangement, but if you count the chokes there are 5.


----------



## infini

How important is the the power phase and heatsink on mosfets for someone who doesn't plan to overclock? The Asrock A75M-HVS which has 3+1 phase power is ok for not overclocked use?


----------



## Cheezman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *infini*
> 
> How important is the the power phase and heatsink on mosfets for someone who doesn't plan to overclock? The Asrock A75M-HVS which has 3+1 phase power is ok for not overclocked use?


I'd imagine if your motherboard is designed to support the CPU you want to use, then, it will be perfectly fine.


----------



## grong

http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/FM2A85X%20Extreme6/index.us.asp?cat=Specifications phase?


----------



## Cheezman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grong*
> 
> http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/FM2A85X%20Extreme6/index.us.asp?cat=Specifications phase?


Looks to be 8+2.

Edit: Yes, says 8+2 right in the specs.


----------



## Cancer

Can't wait for the Asrock FM2A85X Extreme6


----------



## flipmatthew

does it use one or two phases for the memory? In the pic it only shows one. Trying to decide on this, the gigabyte, or the biostar a85x hifi 8+2.


----------



## Cancer

I would assume 2 phases for the memory.....that's what 8+2 usually means.


----------



## flipmatthew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cancer*
> 
> I would assume 2 phases for the memory.....that's what 8+2 usually means.


I may be wrong, but form what i've read, on socket FM2, 8 + 2 means 8 phases for the CPU and 2 phases for the graphics.


----------



## cdoublejj

as of this posting i ca*n't* scroll the the tables left and right.


----------



## reflex99

huddler sorta messed with google docs.

im working on it


----------



## sid0972

hey
i had an asus mobo, m4a88td-v evo usb3, as in my sig
it wont work, not..at..all

i am buying a used MSI 890GXM-GD65
i have amd 1090t,

is that combo, ok?? i mean, the mobo will not die after an year's use or so?
not looking to overclock


----------



## Cheezman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sid0972*
> 
> i am buying a used MSI 890GXM-GD65
> i have amd 1090t,
> is that combo, ok?? i mean, the mobo will not die after an year's use or so?
> not looking to overclock


Chart on the first page says it has a high failure rate with X6s. Seems like a gamble to me.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flipmatthew*
> 
> I may be wrong, but form what i've read, on socket FM2, 8 + 2 means 8 phases for the CPU and 2 phases for the graphics.


8+2 still can refer to the CPU & GPU being in that 8 grouping, with the +2 being the IMC.

Most trinity (and previous generation Llano boards) ran the 8 Phase array as 6 channels for the CPU & 2 channels for the GPU.

You'd need to either see the board in person or a very detailed photo (ala be able to see both sides and the traces) to tell how the AsRock is setup specifically.


----------



## sid0972

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> 8+2 still can refer to the CPU & GPU being in that 8 grouping, with the +2 being the IMC.
> 
> Most trinity (and previous generation Llano boards) ran the 8 Phase array as 6 channels for the CPU & 2 channels for the GPU.
> 
> You'd need to either see the board in person or a very detailed photo (ala be able to see both sides and the traces) to tell how the AsRock is setup specifically.


its not asrock, its msi
and when i look in detail, what should i be looking for?


----------



## Cancer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> 8+2 still can refer to the CPU & GPU being in that 8 grouping, with the +2 being the IMC.
> 
> Most trinity (and previous generation Llano boards) ran the 8 Phase array as 6 channels for the CPU & 2 channels for the GPU.
> 
> You'd need to either see the board in person or a very detailed photo (ala be able to see both sides and the traces) to tell how the AsRock is setup specifically.


Well the Asrock one was specifically 8+2....so that should be 8 for APU and 2 for IMC......I don't see why they would suddenly change it to some other more confusing method.


----------



## flipmatthew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cancer*
> 
> Well the Asrock one was specifically 8+2....so that should be 8 for APU and 2 for IMC......I don't see why they would suddenly change it to some other more confusing method.


Thanks dude! +rep.

What do you guys think of the gigabyte a85x ud5 mobo? Is the new 60A rated power stage actually better? Is it better to get that (6 + 2) than an 8+2 asrock or biostar?

Basically, what I am trying to ask, is if you had to choose an atx a85x motherboard, which one would it be?
GA-F2A85X-UP4 ( 6 + 2 )
FM2A85X Extreme6 ( 8 + 2 )
Hi-Fi A85X Ver. 5.x ( 8 + 2)


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sid0972*
> 
> its not asrock, its msi
> and when i look in detail, what should i be looking for?


You've gotta track traces to the socket and know what pins do what.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cancer*
> Well the Asrock one was specifically 8+2....so that should be 8 for APU and 2 for IMC......I don't see why they would suddenly change it to some other more confusing method.


Chipset & CPU would dictate the change.

8+2 is easy marketing, they don't care what that means in reality, they just like it as a bullet point on the box since it makes their product more marketable.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flipmatthew*
> 
> Thanks dude! +rep.
> What do you guys think of the gigabyte a85x ud5 mobo? Is the new 60A rated power stage actually better? Is it better to get that (6 + 2) than an 8+2 asrock or biostar?
> Basically, what I am trying to ask, is if you had to choose an atx a85x motherboard, which one would it be?
> GA-F2A85X-UP4 ( 6 + 2 )
> FM2A85X Extreme6 ( 8 + 2 )
> Hi-Fi A85X Ver. 5.x ( 8 + 2)


Normally higher amperage MOSFETs are a bit of hinderance since they do not have as high efficiency when used in lower operating states (ala power saving modes.)

Still, gives you good headroom for Overclocking.

Between those 3 boards; whichever is the cheapest.


----------



## Cancer

Well....supposedly the bigger number of stages can be overcome by better quality VRMs.........which I suppose makes sense but.....as a consumer how are we supposed to know who has high quality or low quality VRMs?

I don't know.......I'll just pick a big number and a trusted brand until someone tells me otherwise.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cancer*
> 
> Well....supposedly the bigger number of stages can be overcome by better quality VRMs.........which I suppose makes sense but.....as a consumer how are we supposed to know who has high quality or low quality VRMs?
> I don't know.......I'll just pick a big number and a trusted brand until someone tells me otherwise.


Wait for a good review site (or person) to pop off the heatsink from the VRM's and take a look at the design as well as give you the info you need.

Saying a MOSFET can do 60A means nothing. That could be 60A @ 20*C, which means at 50*C it's doing less than 30A.

Like wise, what's the voltage?

Your best options are to look for good reviews and see what users are able to overclock like on those boards.


----------



## Cancer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cancer*
> 
> Well the Asrock one was specifically 8+2....so that should be 8 for APU and 2 for IMC......I don't see why they would suddenly change it to some other more confusing method.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> You've gotta track traces to the socket and know what pins do what.
> 
> Chipset & CPU would dictate the change.
> 
> 8+2 is easy marketing, they don't care what that means in reality, they just like it as a bullet point on the box since it makes their product more marketable.


Page 6.....
8 + 2 Power Phase Design
http://download.asrock.com/manual/FM2A85X%20Extreme6.pdf

*shrug*

The manual doesn't have any additional information but AFAIK Asrock's MO is not underhanded Power Phase inflation.....

I'll post 15 megapixel pictures when I buy mine........barring any unforeseen financial circumstances.
I'm sure Tater would love to be our trace tracker.










The HUDSON D4 boards have other differences besides power phases.....like the number of SATA ports.


----------



## Cancer

One reason my interest in Asrock boards is good performance for a good price...............and tons of SATA ports.
I have....many HDDs.


----------



## flipmatthew

Looks like i'm going the asrock route. The only downside is the lack of 110db snr on board audio. But then again, it DOES have support for 2600+mhz ram with OC, and X-Boost looks cool, 15% OC with no work! It says max shared memory 512mb, but i'm sure it will use more via the drivers (like nvidia's hypermemory)


----------



## Cancer

All that X-Boost stuff is nonsense.

The Asrock Fatal1ty boards have some nice software but otherwise Asrock software is........fun to try once...then uninstall.
Except for the XFast USB one....don't try that one.

Back when I had a Phenom 9500 with the TLB bug......which it did not have......and made my performance go down 15% for the "fix"............Asrock was one of 2 motherboard manufacturers to put out a patch.....for the patch.

<3


----------



## Tator Tot

X-Fast USB is actually much better in this day and age.

All it is, is a driver mod that replaces the standard USB driver for windows with one that has a better prioritization stage for large block data transfers.

Ala, larger files (5-6MB+ range) don't congest the pipeline. Since the standard USB driver is more efficient at the smaller file transfers.

Also, I'm not saying that AsRock is being underhanded (or that any board maker is.) What I'm saying is that 8+2 (unless specifically said) can mean that it's 8 Phase power for the CPU & 2 Phase power for the IMC or 2 Phase power for the IGP.

Since splitting up the power phases into different categories or renaming it something like 6+2+2 would be more confusing to the buyers which want simple and easy to recognize features.

That's why AsRock has X-Fast555, Gigabyte had their Ultra Durable 333, MSI with Military Class, etc

Those feature sets change & get modified to include either new things or different things; but they're still called by their initial name (X-Fast, Ultra Durable, Military Class, etc.)


----------



## Cancer

XFast USB corrupted the files on my USB flash drive.
I do not personally recommend the feature.

Fatal1ty 1155 Z68 motherboard.....so one of the newer ones.

Your mileage may vary...


----------



## KarathKasun

I found some interesting info on the MOSFETS that seem to be common on low end and mid range gigabyte boards (2SK3919).

Power dissipation at 100c is 15w. 4x3 setup (4 phase 3 transistor per phase) its good for 120w @ 100c.

The sturdy FET's mentioned for the DFI 790FX board (AOD472) are rated for 25w at 100c. Same VRM config is good for 200w @ 100c.

Just goes to show how much impact quality components can have on a boards power output characteristics.


----------



## terence52

990FXA-GD80 shouldn't be safe to OC. Friend blew his GD80 4 times overclocking his 8120 to 4.5ghz.


----------



## sid0972

my 890gxm g65 is working ok at stock
shall i risk taking it to 3.6 or 3.8??


----------



## flipmatthew

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sid0972*
> 
> my 890gxm g65 is working ok at stock
> shall i risk taking it to 3.6 or 3.8??


NO!


----------



## sid0972

yeah i guess so


----------



## oldcompgeek

Man I surely didn't know that my Fatality board was the ONLY AMD FX mobo with 12 + 2 phase power... Truthfully, the MSI 990fxa-gd80 that Ihave now has performed much better but then again, some of the problems with the Fatality may have been to do with the FX 8120 chip as the MSI that I'm playing with now uses a Phenom II 965. Maybe I should switch the Phenom II to the Fatality and see if it overclocks better?? Just a thought. I have an Asus m487td-v evo that I am going to put together too but I am looking for a heatsink or waterblock for the VRM's if anyone knows where I can find one.


----------



## Tator Tot

Make sure to update the BIOS for the Fatal1ty.

Most of the launch BIOS for the 990FX boards / Bulldozer Chips, were pretty awful.


----------



## Cancer

Asrock is pretty good about putting out updates for their motherboards.
I couldn't say if I was on the latest firmware at the time or not.
I usually update the firmware when I reinstall windows....I don't think of doing it on a day to day basis.


----------



## Cheezman

Just want to update:

The GA-78LMT-USB3 now supports 125w Phenoms with the new F3 bios.

http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=4305


----------



## oldcompgeek

That is true, I still remember in Feb. how many blue screens that I went through with my Fatality and 8120.... Almost took a hammer to 'em both lol. Seriously, though I did have to update to the 1.50 BIOS at that time and download a couple of windows updates pertaining to "scheduling" or sum'n to get rid of the blue screens. It still was outperformed by my 1100t but ran better than before anyway. Thanks tater tot.


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cheezman*
> 
> Just want to update:
> The GA-78LMT-USB3 now supports 125w Phenoms with the new F3 bios.
> http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/cpu-support-popup.aspx?pid=4305


Awesome! Looks like my tech support mail got to them and had them redo the validation tests!







(I sent tech support a message about it and was told that 125W Phenom II initially did not pass validation tests - looks like they were redone).


----------



## iamwardicus

I'll ask my questions quickly in this thread as I think they're on topic.

1) Why aren't the AMD boards doing more of the phase counts similar to the newer Intel boards (12 to 16 phase)?

2) What motherboard manufacturer or just 3 motherboards in general are using the best quality power delivery to CPU? I'm wondering as I'm seriously looking at a Piledriver chip, however I want to be sure it can deliver good clean/stable power as I'm sure it will still have a high power draw (when compared to it's Intel competition). Unfortunately I can't find any good motherboard reviews that really dig into the VRM and power circuitry for AMD boards.

Thanks for any info


----------



## Cheezman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771*
> 
> Awesome! Looks like my tech support mail got to them and had them redo the validation tests!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I sent tech support a message about it and was told that 125W Phenom II initially did not pass validation tests - looks like they were redone).


I emailed them too, also got the generic "125w Phenoms are not validated" response. Good to know they are listening to their customers!


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iamwardicus*
> 
> I'll ask my questions quickly in this thread as I think they're on topic.
> 1) Why aren't the AMD boards doing more of the phase counts similar to the newer Intel boards (12 to 16 phase)?
> 2) What motherboard manufacturer or just 3 motherboards in general are using the best quality power delivery to CPU? I'm wondering as I'm seriously looking at a Piledriver chip, however I want to be sure it can deliver good clean/stable power as I'm sure it will still have a high power draw (when compared to it's Intel competition). Unfortunately I can't find any good motherboard reviews that really dig into the VRM and power circuitry for AMD boards.
> Thanks for any info


1.) High Phase count is not needed. That's mostly marketing on the point of newer board makers.

There are some gains to it, especially if you're going the extreme side of things (LN2 / LHe)

2.) Gigabyte, Asus, & Biostar are the best when it comes to power delivery.

AsRock & ECS are actually good makers as well now. Foxconn too, but they hardly do anything high end for AMD or Intel now.

MSI is a can't trust them brand. Their current 990FX line-up is useless and will blow while overclocking 140w PhII x6's & Bulldozer chips


----------



## oldcompgeek

So is that MSI 990fx lineup including the GD-80? I particularly don't want to blow my cpu but have oc'd well personally with this one. (maybe it's just a lucky board) When researching the mobo, I did see that lower end MSI's had problems but didn't see anything about the gd-80 in there. I guess I'm going to have to get back over 4ghz and prime 95 it and see what happens.


----------



## Tator Tot

Yeah, the GD-80 is worthless.

I blew mine with a 4.4Ghz PhII x6. I wouldn't dare put a FX-81xx chip on there.


----------



## oldcompgeek

Well, shoot, and I was so happy with the performance of this thing too... lol. I've had so many tell me negative stuff about MSI products but I just personally have yet to experience it. I have been eyeing that biostar A85W FM2 mobo with a trinity A10 to play with so maybe it's time to do just that. I can't bring myself to get rid of a system that has performed so well for me but I might just throw my 8120 in there out of my fatality rig and see if I can get to 4.5 ghz before it pops. I already have an Asus fx evo mobo standing by anyway so.... Seriously though, is it possible that I just have a gem 990fxa-gd80 or what? How old was yours when it blew, if you don't mind me asking.


----------



## Tator Tot

2 or 3 months, I had it a short while before I threw it on the bench.


----------



## oldcompgeek

Shoot, I bought mine back in july so... I was seriously thinking about passing it down to my oldest son and just run a stock 965 BE with a single 6850 for him to game on instead of buying new. Then I could just buy new for myself or just go back to the fatality rig to do video editing on. What are your thoughts on the 990fx ud3 series by Gigabyte AND have you ever heard of a CoolerMaster Aquagate dual vga liquid cooler? I didn't even know that CM made liquid coolers and I have the chance to get it with all included hard ware for 40 bucks. I thought, depending on the quality of the pump/block units about modifying them to ruin on my 6870/6850 CF setup. Thanks for all of your excellent information.

Here's a shot of the CM


----------



## Tator Tot

Are you talkin about this guy?

http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=141

Also, for a stock X4 or even overclocked x4; should be fine as long as it's not unlocked to an x6.


----------



## oldcompgeek

yeppir, that's the one! I have always had good quality from coolermaster so I thought It was worth the risk of 40 bucks, just for the rad.


----------



## Tator Tot

I'd ask the guys over in the water cooling section. I don't know anything specific about it.

Never had a chance to play with it.

I did get to play with the 240mm RAD + 5.25" Bay & Res + CPU block setup (Forgot what it was called, but had a similar name.)

Performance wasn't very good compared to a DIY kit and it cost a bit much; but the build quality was pretty good. Much better than Thermaltake.

For $40, you're not really spending a lot; but make sure it's all in good condition. Gunked up rads, degrading tubes, or stripped fittings can all be an issue.


----------



## oldcompgeek

Yeah, it's actually never been used, and he bought it open box a few years ago because it's missing some screws. So basically I'm getting a new used open box setup. I will have to closely inspect the tubing for any sign of cracks but it's been in the original pkg so it should be fine. Thought about using the pump blocks with my 920 pump block to make a custom loop with micro res. I already have an asatek cpu/vga dual setup coming that I got off ebay for 69 bucks but the coolermaster may be higher quality and the res is bigger too. Thanks again, I'll get over to the h2o cooling threawds and see what I can find out on the specs.


----------



## xxpenguinxx

I think there are two versions of the GA-MA78G-DS3HP. My board has 3 transistors per channel, and on the box is says 140W CPU support, but the Rev number is the same as on Gigabyte's site, v2.0.
On newegg the picture of the board also shows 3 transistors and 140W on the box:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128373&name=AMD-Motherboards

From my experience (maybe just luck), you can safely do minor-moderate overclocking on this version, as long as you have heatsinks on the VRMs. I've been running my Phenom II X4 965 Rev C3 at 4Ghz for over a little over a year and have not had a single problem. Before I added heatsinks my VRMs were reading 70C (when overclocked), after adding them I haven't seen it reach 50C.


----------



## Faster_is_better

This is a pretty brilliant resource. Sadly my work machine has a mobo that isn't rated to highly.

I just got an x6 cpu for it and dropped in, x6 1045t 95w part, and the mobo is a GA MA785G-UD3H. The recommended support according to the chart in this thread is max 125w and no OC.

If I was to actively cool the VRM, and only OC slightly would it be fine? Seems like I have a little bit of headroom between 95w and 125w as recommended here.


----------



## xd_1771

Check out the 990XA/970A clubGIGABYTE has refused to add 125W TDP 8-core Vishera FX (8320, 8350 - just released) support to its 970 series boards lacking VRM cooling. Same with the 990FXA-D3.


----------



## oldcompgeek

Well xd_1771, you could actually be a PROPHET...lol. All was going sooooo well with my GD-80 until... I went to boot up after a couple hours of downtime and filter cleaning,etc. Went to boot up and the lights came on but nobody was home. Smelled something funny. This is on a simple "oc genie" overclock mind-you as I have been babying it since you warned me about the msi problems with 900 series mobos. After some investigation I found a black/brown burn spot about the size of a quarter inbetween the cpu fan header and the num 1 memory slot. Trial and error got it running again but not until I found out the cpu fan header no longer works and the first memory slot no longer functions either. She's running okay with my 920's 3-pin power header plugged into a secondary fan header and my memory in the other three slots (2 gig, 4 gig, 2 gig = 8 gig 1866) She still runs in dual channel and is okay but I'm waiting on my new mobo to put in it so I don't have to go without a computer while MSI sorts it out. I decided on the Gigabyte 990fx ud3 especially since the egg is giving away 2 4 gig sticks of geil memory with certain mobos...whew! Thanks again for the warnings as I don't know how bad it would've been if I was still running at 4.2 ghz!!! +REP for you if I could...


----------



## xd_1771

^ But that's not a CPU VRM failure >_>
Good indication of overall GD80 board quality though I guess? Or you were just using too many (or too powerful of a) fan on that one header, but I doubt it.


----------



## oldcompgeek

Yeah, it was just the simple 3-pin from the antec 920 closed loop cpu cooler fan connector which it instructed me to plug into the "cpu fan" header. It does show a very flimsy build quality or... well.... one COULD say that it shows how durable it is to still work after frying the cpu fan header and memory slot number one ... LOL !! I personally believe that it probably was a flaw but I am going to let MSI fix it up, then sell the repaired or replaced mobo. I am curious about that gigabyte quality and performance. I couldn't wait for it to get here to get my rig back together so I ripped the Fatality mobo outta "fatality scorpious" and have it running... with all 13 power phases ....well It may actually be 12+2?? Cant remember.


----------



## MyFaceHole

Can you add the ASUS Crosshair V formula Z motherboard to the list?


----------



## Cheezman

Do you guys think a FX6300 will be pushing it too much on my board? I know it's "only" a 95w TDP CPU, but, I heard these things under load get very demanding.

Opinions needed.


----------



## oldcompgeek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771*
> 
> ^ But that's not a CPU VRM failure >_>
> Good indication of overall GD80 board quality though I guess? Or you were just using too many (or too powerful of a) fan on that one header, but I doubt it.


Well, I finally got the GD-80 out and put in an Asus M487TD EVO that I had from a previous sale laying around. I figured that I was living on borrowed time with the cpu fan hdr and #1 mem slot bn burned out. MSI is going to fix or hopefully replace it so I can get the v.2 version of the board.)might be 2.0 not sure) Just wanted to ask your opinion (if any_ on the build quality of this mobo or Asus in general. I haven't used them before in my machines(only fatality or gd80) Thanks again for the heads up on msi mobo's and the advice.Here's the replacement board:


----------



## Redwoodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oldcompgeek*
> 
> Well xd_1771, you could actually be a PROPHET...lol. All was going sooooo well with my GD-80 until... I went to boot up after a couple hours of downtime and filter cleaning,etc. Went to boot up and the lights came on but nobody was home. Smelled something funny. This is on a simple "oc genie" overclock mind-you as I have been babying it since you warned me about the msi problems with 900 series mobos. After some investigation I found a black/brown burn spot about the size of a quarter inbetween the cpu fan header and the num 1 memory slot. Trial and error got it running again but not until I found out the cpu fan header no longer works and the first memory slot no longer functions either. She's running okay with my 920's 3-pin power header plugged into a secondary fan header and my memory in the other three slots (2 gig, 4 gig, 2 gig = 8 gig 1866) She still runs in dual channel and is okay but I'm waiting on my new mobo to put in it so I don't have to go without a computer while MSI sorts it out. I decided on the Gigabyte 990fx ud3 especially since the egg is giving away 2 4 gig sticks of geil memory with certain mobos...whew! Thanks again for the warnings as I don't know how bad it would've been if I was still running at 4.2 ghz!!! +REP for you if I could...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oldcompgeek*
> 
> Well, I finally got the GD-80 out and put in an Asus M487TD EVO that I had from a previous sale laying around. I figured that I was living on borrowed time with the cpu fan hdr and #1 mem slot bn burned out. MSI is going to fix or hopefully replace it so I can get the v.2 version of the board.)might be 2.0 not sure) Just wanted to ask your opinion (if any_ on the build quality of this mobo or Asus in general. I haven't used them before in my machines(only fatality or gd80) Thanks again for the heads up on msi mobo's and the advice.Here's the replacement board:


To be honest,the problem you described could just as easily be from a short,(which you may have caused while cleaning)and I don't think you can conclude a bad design from that.If you you were happy with it before then I would get the replacement and try it out for awhile.









As for the Asus board,that's basically the same VRM's as the M5A97,with no heatsinks. Won't fry, but you will have some vdroop and hindered overclock ability.


----------



## oldcompgeek

Well, the thing is: when i was swapping out the board, I took out the top bezel on the new z11 case and BAM! There was a piece of bare wire grounding out straight to the top honeycomb of the case.It appears that it pulled out of the fan and feww right to the honeycombed top steel panel. I wasn't sure how the fans bn plugged in backwards or sum'n could cause that popping b/c it happened as soon as I pushed the power button after swapping out cases to the z11 plus. I took a pic. and called newegg and then zalman... and now i have a 10 buck "prepaid card" coming...wow. I guess it's just one of those things but you're correct. I do love that MSI gd-80 moibo and will be putting the new one in directly MSI said on the phone that burned connections that damage multiple components are usually replaced and the v.1 are gone so I'll get a v.2 WooHoo!! I do think it's a testament to the build quality that it still ran fine after swapping out the ram to slot 2 and cpu fan to a different header, though. Thanks

P.S. The Asus board runs great btw and I do like their utilities like the probe and turbo unlocker, AI suite. good stuff.


----------



## Kyronn94

So according to the Asus website, the latest BIOS for my motherboard adds support for Piledriver FX CPU's

http://uk.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3Plus/M5A78LMUSB3/#CPUS

Would my board be able to cope with an FX 8320 or 8350?

It's been running a Phenom II x4 955 @3.8GHz at about 1.45v for months now, with Enzotech heat sinks on the VRM's.
Thanks in advance.

Also, I know it's not relevant to the thread, but would I be better off jumping to intel, rather than dropping in a Piledriver CPU if my board can handle it?

Cheers.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyronn94*
> 
> So according to the Asus website, the latest BIOS for my motherboard adds support for Piledriver FX CPU's
> http://uk.asus.com/Motherboards/AMD_AM3Plus/M5A78LMUSB3/#CPUS
> Would my board be able to cope with an FX 8320 or 8350?
> It's been running a Phenom II x4 955 @3.8GHz at about 1.45v for months now, with Enzotech heat sinks on the VRM's.
> Thanks in advance.
> Also, I know it's not relevant to the thread, but would I be better off jumping to intel, rather than dropping in a Piledriver CPU if my board can handle it?
> Cheers.


eh, kinda sketchy, but would probably be fine


----------



## noobhell

I don't get it. Why does it say Asus motherboard phase list submission form as the title of the mobo submission form?


----------



## xd_1771

Not sure. Changed.

You're going to want to get that 8120 off of the unheatsinked VRM board....


----------



## noobhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771*
> 
> Not sure. Changed.
> 
> You're going to want to get that 8120 off of the unheatsinked VRM board....


Yeah I know, I was very tight on budget when I bought it. I'm getting a Sapphire Pure Black 990fx for christmas.


----------



## oldcompgeek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *noobhell*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *xd_1771*
> 
> Not sure. Changed.
> You're going to want to get that 8120 off of the unheatsinked VRM board....
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I know, I was very tight on budget when I bought it. I'm getting a Sapphire Pure Black 990fx for christmas.
Click to expand...

WOW! Where'd ya find one... I've only been able to find the a75 pure platinum and integrated apu pure white ones. Sapphire mobo's are hard to find.


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *noobhell*
> 
> Yeah I know, I was very tight on budget when I bought it. I'm getting a Sapphire Pure Black 990fx for christmas.


well at the least you could run a an 80mm fan over it running full blast to help cool the vrms.


----------



## oldcompgeek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *noobhell*
> 
> Yeah I know, I was very tight on budget when I bought it. I'm getting a Sapphire Pure Black 990fx for christmas.
> 
> 
> 
> well at the least you could run a an 80mm fan over it running full blast to help cool the vrms.
Click to expand...

Shoot, once, I even stripped the bridges' sinks off an old motherboard with integrated gfx, cleaned off the thermal paste, and thermal taped them on the vrm's for cooling lol. It was about a 6 year old factory built computer with those small aluminum sinks on the n.b. and s.b. It actually worked well enough to get by until the enzotech copper sinks arrived!


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oldcompgeek*
> 
> Shoot, once, I even stripped the bridges' sinks off an old motherboard with integrated gfx, cleaned off the thermal paste, and thermal taped them on the vrm's for cooling lol. It was about a 6 year old factory built computer with those small aluminum sinks on the n.b. and s.b. It actually worked well enough to get by until the enzotech copper sinks arrived!


I would just assume have the air going over them instead of doing all that work for temporary heat sinks.


----------



## noobhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> well at the least you could run a an 80mm fan over it running full blast to help cool the vrms.


no space. I reset my cpu to stock so I'm not all to worried of breaking the mobo.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oldcompgeek*
> 
> WOW! Where'd ya find one... I've only been able to find the a75 pure platinum and integrated apu pure white ones. Sapphire mobo's are hard to find.


I found it on pixmania.com. They don't ship to the US and for european non-eu countries they charge 25$ shipping but it's worth it.


----------



## oldcompgeek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *noobhell*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> well at the least you could run a an 80mm fan over it running full blast to help cool the vrms.
> 
> 
> 
> no space. I reset my cpu to stock so I'm not all to worried of breaking the mobo.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *oldcompgeek*
> 
> WOW! Where'd ya find one... I've only been able to find the a75 pure platinum and integrated apu pure white ones. Sapphire mobo's are hard to find.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I found it on pixmania.com. They don't ship to the US and for european non-eu countries they charge 25$ shipping but it's worth it.
Click to expand...

Dang it! It's like Sapphire is being boycotted by U.S. online retailers! It's a shame too. That board slot layout is awesome with the six full pcie lanes and three that are 16x.Diamond chokes, 12+1 power phases and an awesome color scheme... just a bloody shame that we can't get 'em lol. Thanks.


----------



## Tator Tot

Sapphire just doesn't want to enter the US market as a board maker due to the already cluttered space.

It's a logistics thing.

Sapphire targets markets where they can get a better foothold as it's not a very profitable business.


----------



## oldcompgeek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Sapphire just doesn't want to enter the US market as a board maker due to the already cluttered space.
> 
> It's a logistics thing.
> 
> Sapphire targets markets where they can get a better foothold as it's not a very profitable business.


well that does make sense. It does seem that there are several mobo manufacturers that have dissapeared in the last few years. lol I actually had someone trade-in their old system for a new build that had a PC Chips board in it! I hadn't seen one in a while but it is still running and it's first gen am2. I guess the only way to get a 990fx pure black mobo is to e-bay it b/c amazon uk won't ship here either. The weird thing was that I heard about some of the engineers from EVGA going over to Sapphire so I was excited as EVGA doesn't make AMD mobo's.


----------



## Tator Tot

Yeah, some of the good Engineers left EVGA and went to Sapphire; the best went to Asus though.

Still; Asus, Gigabyte, & AsRock have incredible dominance in the US market. So Sapphire wouldn't be wise to just blindly enter without proper planning & execution.

Also, PC Chips got absorbed into ECS if I recall.


----------



## Helvetia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Yeah, some of the good Engineers left EVGA and went to Sapphire; the best went to Asus though.
> 
> Still; Asus, Gigabyte, & AsRock have incredible dominance in the US market. So Sapphire wouldn't be wise to just blindly enter without proper planning & execution.
> 
> Also, PC Chips got absorbed into ECS if I recall.


This. The US has Jetway, ECS and Biostar additionaly in the market. In Europe you can't find any ECS or Jetway boards and Biostar ones are very scarce.


----------



## Tator Tot

As far as Desktop stuff goes;

Intel, ECS, Asus, AsRock, Biostar, Gigabyte, EVGA, & MSI are all relatively big players in the US market.

There's also Zotac who does mostly niche stuff.

We used to have larger presences from companies like Jetway, Foxconn, & DFI but they all are not large players or left the market entirely.


----------



## nz3777

Someone help out the blind over here I didnt see ASUS M5A97 lol.


----------



## nz3777

Sorry to get off subject guys whats the best amd board am3+ in your opinion? Crosshiar asus? anyone know where i can get a good deal on 1?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nz3777*
> 
> Someone help out the blind over here I didnt see ASUS M5A97 lol.


It's 4+1, would be fine for Phenom II x4 or FX-6300 overclocking. Not sure about FX-8300 chips though.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nz3777*
> 
> Sorry to get off subject guys whats the best amd board am3+ in your opinion? Crosshiar asus? anyone know where i can get a good deal on 1?


Sabertooth 990FX R2.0, Crosshair V Formula-Z, AsRock Fatal1ty 990FX, & Gigabyte 990FXA-UD5 or UD7.

If you want a budget board then Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3 or Bioware TA990FXE. Both boards can overclock as well as the other guys; but they do not have as many features.


----------



## Xsession

Least i know why I Cant Seem To Push My System Past 4.0 Ghz
Right now I Am @ 3.923 Ghz Bench Stable . As Soon as I Bump it up a Tad More System Locks up


----------



## Geonerd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KarathKasun*
> 
> I found some interesting info on the MOSFETS that seem to be common on low end and mid range gigabyte boards (2SK3919).
> Power dissipation at 100c is 15w. 4x3 setup (4 phase 3 transistor per phase) its good for 120w @ 100c.
> The sturdy FET's mentioned for the DFI 790FX board (AOD472) are rated for 25w at 100c. Same VRM config is good for 200w @ 100c.
> Just goes to show how much impact quality components can have on a boards power output characteristics.


Interesting!

From: http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheets2/17/171458_1.pdf
Their Rds of 5.6 mOhm is only a little better than the dreaded NIKOS P0630s found on the notorious 870A-G54 and other MSI wonders.







They may well be built better, however, and thus be more resistant to degradation and eventual thermal runaway / meltdown. (I suspect some of the NIKOS destruction is due to the simple fact that the transistors are not meeting their stated specs.)

At any rate, TO252 mosfets with Rds values as low as 2 mOhm are out there. They are a bit more expensive and, having a physically larger junction, would likely require more robust (= $) mosfet drivers. That said, even the top-of-the-line hardware costs only a few tens of cents more than the cheaper stuff. For a few bucks, the motherboard manufacturers could install mosfets with ~3x the power capacity.


----------



## Geonerd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> I would just assume have the air going over them instead of doing all that work for temporary heat sinks.


Yea.
Besides, even with additional heatsinks strapped on top, the vast majority of the heat will go through the soldered base, into the motherboard. Cool the motherboard and you cool the MOSFET, as well as all the other VRM components that get hot. Heatsinks won't hurt, unless they block airflow to the board, but IMO _they may not help that much either._ AFAIK, the black mosfet body is made of some manner of plastic or epoxy, depending on the mfg. Unless special compounds are used, this sort of material has a rather low thermal conductivity and, since the actual junction is buried several mm of this plastic, the heat has a hard time making it to the surface. The junction IS attached directly to the metal tab on the bottom that gets soldered to the motherboard, so thermal resistance along that path is quite low.


----------



## Cheezman

Has anyone tried to upgrade their MOSFETs to better ones on-board? I know EVGA made an external upgrade, but I'm talking about direct replacement. Would such an attempt even work, or are there failsafes inplace that would prevent it from working?

Just curious for sake of discussion, not looking to make such an attempt.


----------



## Geonerd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cheezman*
> 
> Has anyone tried to upgrade their MOSFETs to better ones on-board? I know EVGA made an external upgrade, but I'm talking about direct replacement. Would such an attempt even work, or are there failsafes inplace that would prevent it from working?
> Just curious for sake of discussion, not looking to make such an attempt.


I'm somewhat determined to give it a try. Digikey has a wide list of Infineon MOSFETS to pick from (almost too many!) I haven't looked at all, but have found one with 2x better Rds resistance and similar gate charge values. http://www.infineon.com/dgdl/IPD031N03L_rev2.1.pdf These will literally produce half or less the heat of the NIKOS crap that's on the board now. ( 870A-G54 )


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cheezman*
> 
> Has anyone tried to upgrade their MOSFETs to better ones on-board? I know EVGA made an external upgrade, but I'm talking about direct replacement. Would such an attempt even work, or are there failsafes inplace that would prevent it from working?
> Just curious for sake of discussion, not looking to make such an attempt.


It's really hard to do, especially with consumer grade soldering equipment.


----------



## Geonerd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> It's really hard to do, especially with consumer grade soldering equipment.


True, a Rat Shack slaughtering iron won't do more than narf the board.


----------



## Cheezman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> It's really hard to do, especially with consumer grade soldering equipment.


Looking at photos of a whole bunch of different brand and model motherboards, it would be a _tight_ soldering job, but, anyone who is experienced with soldering could do it. If I had a motherboard to sacrifice, I would absolutely try; I've been using a soldering iron since I was 13.

But yeah, a Radio Shack soldering iron wouldn't be the tool to get the job done, that's for sure.


----------



## reflex99

people have replaced mosfets (i think), but like has been said, it would be a super tight solder job.


----------



## Cheezman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99*
> 
> people have replaced mosfets (i think), but like has been said, it would be a super tight solder job.


There are methods for soldering small things such as MOSFETs, or even _way_ smaller.

Check this out:


----------



## Geonerd

Good video.
Those TO252 mosfets are ginormous compared to many surface mount components. The challenge will be getting heat onto the pad quickly enough to flow the solder without heat-soaking and possibly damaging the board or components.


----------



## Fooliobass

If it hasn't been asked for yet can someone add ASUS SABERTOOTH 990FX R2.0? please and thanks.


----------



## Artikbot

Just submitted as many info as I've been able to collect on the Gigabyte F2A75M-HD2.

By the way, it uses super low RdsON MOSFETs based on TrenchFET technology, boasting some impressive 7.5mOhm. No wonder it runs so cool!

Max power dissipation is 22.7W per MOSFET, making a total of 110W for the whole processor package (one of the driver sides only). Assume a bit higher since power is switched between the sides. I think it's safe to run this board with a mildly OCed 5800K with adequate ventilation.


----------



## xd_1771

22.7W per MOSFET or per phase? There's more than one MOSFET a phase 

Should be a 3+2 phase, 3-transistors on the first 3 phases and 2 on the other. The new MOSFETs that GIGABYTE have been using throughout their boards, including mine I'm pretty sure, are really really good.


----------



## Geonerd

7.5 mOhm is not all that fantastic. The dreaded NIKOS on my 870A-G54 are rated* to operate in the ballpark of 6~9 mOhm, depending on actual current flow and voltage, and gate voltage. High quality Infineon FETs can have RDS as low as 2.x mOhm, at the price of higher capacitance and slower response.

*I somewhat suspect the Nikos parts, being some of the cheapest on the street, are not meeting their stated specifications.







If nothing else, I bet they degrade much more rapidly than they should.


----------



## Tator Tot

NIKOS are awful in all regards.

They're on the level of the cheapest capacitors.


----------



## Belial

[email protected], my Biostar A770e3 started to have choke whine when the mosfets approached 100*C (the max limit, I quickly turned it off, biostar says 90*C long term causes pcb browning).

It was quite audible, i thought it was my whining blademasters at first. The whining goes away almost immediately when I stop prime95, and it only starts to whine after a few minutes of p95 at 3.8/1.536 when the VRM start to approach 100*C.

Now the temperature sensor in question, it's placed onto the topmost of the 3 in the 3+1 phase (in between the top and middle of the 3, more towards the top mosfet chips though), but it also might be reading the choke because the sensor is sort of pushing against the choke. Here's a pic of the NZXT Sentry 2 discrete temperature sensors:



The diode tip is underneath my custom VRM heatsink (took an am2 stock heatsink, sawed it into 1cm wide, stuck it onto my mosfets, put a 40mm fan onto it by screwing into the fins), but as you can see like the wires are sort of exposed going towards the tip, and they are pushed against the choke.

Like... i\l (vrm choke, the sensor, heatsink, if that makes sense visually).

I'm not sure if the diode is picking up the actual mosfets, or if it's picking up on the choke, but given the choke whine I'm getting, I don't think it's a good sign.I'm pretty sure it's choke temp because I've never had anything like this before, i think i only started registering such temps when i put this diode by the top phase and maybe it's like against the choke, or it could just be the hottest (i always thought the middle one was the hottest though). I dont get such choke whine on 3.7/1.504vcore.

It ran p95 blend for an hour, so I think I'll just stick with this [email protected], but not 24 hour test it due to this (in gaming/streaming i dont think it'll reach the same load and same temps, if it does ill shut it down and downclock/downvolt to 3.7ghz/1.504vcore, which is 24 hour stable).

I also dont know if my VRM heatsink is working properly, i mean it feels very warm to the touch, almost hot, but i can hold my fingers on it and 90-100*C should be untouchable and scolding hot, even 70-80 should be which is what my other mosfet diode is reading and what I've usually gotten. So it's doing something but not everything, maybe if I got some enzotech's they'd help dissipate heat better (although im worried it might not, after all this custom heatsink is like 40mm tall, whereas enzotechs have much less surface area). Or maybe it feels so much cooler to the touch because of it's relatively large surface area, ie its 70-80 at the mosfet but at the end of the fins its much cooler.


----------



## Belial

yea my vrm heatsink thermal tape is coming off the heatsink is sliding off... im gonna have to get some double sided tape...

anyone have some spare double sided thermal tape?


----------



## Geonerd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Belial*
> 
> I also dont know if my VRM heatsink is working properly, i mean it feels very warm to the touch, almost hot, but i can hold my fingers on it and 90-100*C should be untouchable and scolding hot, even 70-80 should be which is what my other mosfet diode is reading and what I've usually gotten. So it's doing something but not everything, maybe if I got some enzotech's they'd help dissipate heat better (although im worried it might not, after all this custom heatsink is like 40mm tall, whereas enzotechs have much less surface area). Or maybe it feels so much cooler to the touch because of it's relatively large surface area, ie its 70-80 at the mosfet but at the end of the fins its much cooler.


Keep in mind that the MOSFET package is designed to transfer the vast majority of junction heat to the _motherboard_, via the metal base pad and solder joint. The mobo then acts as a radiator to dissipate this heat. The black plastic/epoxy chip package material is generally NOT particularly conductive! Topside heatsinks will help - a little - so long as they don't block airflow to the motherboard, but should not be considered a 'cure' for an overloaded, marginally cooled FET. A 'proper' heatsink would solder to the base of the FET so as to directly cool the metal tab. Blowing air on the both sides of the mobo is probably all you can realistically do to keep the FETs from entering Meltdown Mode under heavy load.


----------



## Belial

My VRM temps only reach that high on custom small fft min 8 max 8 length. On blend they only hit around 60-70 like usual.

Back to trying to push my overclock. If I hear choke whine again I'll get worried, but i think its only during custom small fft (i was doing it for heatpaste comparison tests, not benchmarking). I removed my VRM heatsink 40mm fan, but now have an NH-d14 on (with that 140mm fan pushing air over the vrm heatsink now, and i mounted it all the way down, though that isnt much longer than it is 'stock') which I think pushes more air than that 40mm fan did directly on top. Maybe, i mean i dont know for sure.

edit: I temporarily turned off my cpu fans during load testing (testing pwm control, just for a second), and my vrm went from 80 on blend to 90, and started to whine very loudly. i took some duster, blew it on the vrm for about 20-30 seconds, and the whining went away as it went back down to 80. theres some minor whine at 80. i dont know if i never noticed before or what though, but its not as loud as it was at 90-100 on the custom small fft 8/8 test, nor is it noticeable when im just sitting around using the computer (as opposed to sticking my ear to the top vent of the case).


----------



## Cyrious

So, i have here in my possession an ASUS M3A78-EM motherboard, and while the table on the first post says its OK to OC on this board provided i cool it, i want first-hand knowledge. What will i have to do to make sure this thing doesnt blow up on me aside from purchasing the Enzotech MST-88 'fet heatsink?

The processor is a Phenom II X 4 940 BE (got it combo-ed with the board), and is running under a somewhat modified stock heatsink (swapped the fan with something that performs better). I want to get it up to about 3.6ghz before replacing the guts of my bedside server with it.


----------



## Shift.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyrious*
> 
> So, i have here in my possession an ASUS M3A78-EM motherboard, and while the table on the first post says its OK to OC on this board provided i cool it, i want first-hand knowledge. What will i have to do to make sure this thing doesnt blow up on me aside from purchasing the Enzotech MST-88 'fet heatsink?
> The processor is a Phenom II X 4 940 BE (got it combo-ed with the board), and is running under a somewhat modified stock heatsink (swapped the fan with something that performs better). I want to get it up to about 3.6ghz before replacing the guts of my bedside server with it.


Just make sure you have some fans blowing air on the VRM. Doesn't have to be a big fan; just enough to move the air around that area.


----------



## cdoublejj

how many phases is an ASUS P5N7A-VM ?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> how many phases is an ASUS P5N7A-VM ?


4phase.


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xd_1771*
> 
> 22.7W per MOSFET or per phase?


Per MOSFET and phase. As it's either the low or the high side that's switched on.

Oh and yes, sorry. It's 3 transistors for the CPU half of the package. Still figuring out the datasheet of the non-duplicated transistor.


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> 4phase.


Interesting, ran prime for a few hours and VRMs were barely over room temp.


----------



## rasdabess

I've got the gigabyte 78lmts2p rev5 with a fx6300, why is the no under heatsink black and not red like every other non heatsink mobo? Also what is max voltage before I break safety limit? I know Its a 3+1 but someone said my models got improved parts.


----------



## perche

ga-790x-ds4 + amdx61090t @ 4ghz + intel burn test = 

a bit of flame and bad smell but the board still working.


----------



## xd_1771

Ooh. That's the first (recorded) failure on the GA-790X-DS4 then. I see that it's older, 4+1 phase and 3-transistors. Wait, board still working!?

EDIT: Oh my, I was just looking at the Newegg page for a motherboard and... oh never mind, I'll create a new thread for it


----------



## Geonerd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perche*
> 
> ga-790x-ds4 + amdx61090t @ 4ghz + intel burn test. = a bit of flame and bad smell but the board still working.


Eeek!

What CPU cooler are you running, and what sort of airflow is there over the MOSFETS and associated circuitry?


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Geonerd*
> 
> 7.5 mOhm is not all that fantastic. The dreaded NIKOS on my 870A-G54 are rated* to operate in the ballpark of 6~9 mOhm, depending on actual current flow and voltage, and gate voltage.


They die not because of the actual FET, but because the driver part overloads, starts to improperly drive the FET part of the package, as such the FET doesn't turn on or off quickly enough, generates a crapload of heat, and explodes.

I've had this happen when driving high power FETs with a 555 at high frequencies. I'm talking about huge ass 65A @700V, properly heatsinked FETs burning with only 0.1A @300V going through.


----------



## Geonerd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot*
> 
> They die not because of the actual FET, but because the driver part overloads, starts to improperly drive the FET part of the package, as such the FET doesn't turn on or off quickly enough, generates a crapload of heat, and explodes.
> 
> I've had this happen when driving high power FETs with a 555 at high frequencies. I'm talking about huge ass 65A @700V, properly heatsinked FETs burning with only 0.1A @300V going through.


What causes the driver to overload? Perhaps the FETs response time or input capacitance starts to increase as it heats up and/or ages? None of the product datasheets I've seen mention this, but it seems possible. (?)


----------



## Monomyth

Just a little note for the Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3, the revision that I got new was 4.1, and it came with the F3 BIOS, in case someone which BIOS one could get off the shelf. Thought it was important since it is that BIOS that begins to support 125W CPUs.


----------



## perche

cpu cooler is a scyte mugen 2, and 4 scythe gentle thypon at 1850 rpm

and yes still working, i have now in it my old phenom2 940 be and i bought a 990xa-ud3 for my 1090t


----------



## xd_1771

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot*
> 
> They die not because of the actual FET, but because the driver part overloads, starts to improperly drive the FET part of the package, as such the FET doesn't turn on or off quickly enough, generates a crapload of heat, and explodes.
> 
> I've had this happen when driving high power FETs with a 555 at high frequencies. I'm talking about huge ass 65A @700V, properly heatsinked FETs burning with only 0.1A @300V going through.


I thought so. In most pictures, the failed FET is one of the third FETs replacing the driver. It is mostly these three-transistor configs that are failure prone - even if there are quality ICs. The GA-MA790X-DS4 is a good example. They are newer low RDS (on) ICs but the third transistor layout (as well as the low phase count) causes easy overheating.

The person who recently posted with the MA-790X-DS4 failure should have properly cooled the VRMs (the setup with the mugen 2 provides no VRM cooling, so you're trying to push an x6 with a low-quality, 4+1 phase setup.... that's failure prone in the same way as the MSI 870A boards).

Quality drivers/transistor layout is key in creating a VRM system that doesn't explode.


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Geonerd*
> 
> What causes the driver to overload? Perhaps the FETs response time or input capacitance starts to increase as it heats up and/or ages? None of the product datasheets I've seen mention this, but it seems possible. (?)


Excess of temperature, most likely. As a small temperature increase makes a cascade effect.

The MOSFET becomes a bit too hot, the driver section starts to decrease output power to compensate for this excessive temperature (due to thermal protection of the own package), leading to an improperly driven MOSFET, which in turn heats up even more, heating up even more the driver, which literally fails to reach the logic level of the FET gate.
Then the FET stays in a half-on or half-off state, generating horrible amounts of heat due to not being fully on or off, heating the whole package until it blows up.

That's the main issue with DrMOS packages. Also, if one of the MOSFETs shuts down entirely due to excessive heat, the remaining ones risk becoming overloaded, and if the thermal shutdown isn't designed for the whole MOSFET array, there's a very high chance of the remaining powered array exploding due to overheat/overcurrent.

Also note that the resistance of the entire assembly is higher when temperatures rise.


----------



## rasdabess

Can someone explain to me why the gigabyte 78lmts2p rev 5 has a black no instead of the red no under heatsinked, I'm interested seeing as how i have it myself.


----------



## brasslad

Gigabyte 78LMT-S2 rev 1.1 (besides being 3+1,lol) is reported to have Chinese capacitors. Wish I had known, though purchased to replace dead 880 motherboard with Athlon II X2 250.
Aparently cheap is becoming bad even from name brands.

I would guess color of numbers is either a cosmetic update by Gigabyte, or by the motherboard producer.


----------



## rasdabess

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brasslad*
> 
> Gigabyte 78LMT-S2 rev 1.1 (besides being 3+1,lol) is reported to have Chinese capacitors. Wish I had known, though purchased to replace dead 880 motherboard with Athlon II X2 250.
> Aparently cheap is becoming bad even from name brands.
> 
> I would guess color of numbers is either a cosmetic update by Gigabyte, or by the motherboard producer.


Perhaps, can anyone confirm this who actually knows specifically what it is?


----------



## brasslad

Taiwanese and Chinese comments from newegg comment about half way thru. Do not recognize brands on capacitors, black covers/three way break out on top.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=13-128-564&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=10&PurchaseMark=&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&IsFeedbackTab=true&Page=2

Only review found was Indian. Specification lists "all solid capacitors". Japanese conspicuously absent.
That said, and this is the 78LMT-S2 95 watt version( no "P" follows S2), it is a very sturdy board, and comments are mostly very positive. Was available briefly at $40 before $10 rebate.


----------



## rasdabess

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brasslad*
> 
> Taiwanese and Chinese comments from newegg comment about half way thru. Do not recognize brands on capacitors, black covers/three way break out on top.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=13-128-564&SortField=0&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=10&PurchaseMark=&SelectedRating=-1&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&IsFeedbackTab=true&Page=2
> 
> Only review found was Indian. Specification lists "all solid capacitors". Japanese conspicuously absent.
> That said, and this is the 78LMT-S2 95 watt version( no "P" follows S2), it is a very sturdy board, and comments are mostly very positive. Was available briefly at $40 before $10 rebate.


o.o Im talking bout the 78lmt-s2p rev 4.0/5.0, Its the only board on there with a black no instead of a red no under the heatsinked label. Im not talking about the 78lmt s2


----------



## snitzle_iii

i see my mobo listed here GA-880GA-UD3H (r3.1) 4+1 No 140W OC with cooling No Yes 2 transistor, int. driver Unknown 8-pin ATX
my TMPIN2 temp maxed at 62c. where or what vrm cooler should i get. hopefully something relativity cheap and best bang for your buck. are these interchangeable with newer mobos? are coolers put out per brand or per chip set?

idling at 41c in a antec 300 120mm TriCool rear fan and 140mm TriCool top fan both on low.


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snitzle_iii*
> 
> i see my mobo listed here GA-880GA-UD3H (r3.1) 4+1 No 140W OC with cooling No Yes 2 transistor, int. driver Unknown 8-pin ATX
> my TMPIN2 temp maxed at 62c. where or what vrm cooler should i get. hopefully something relativity cheap and best bang for your buck. are these interchangeable with newer mobos? are coolers put out per brand or per chip set?
> 
> idling at 41c in a antec 300 120mm TriCool rear fan and 140mm TriCool top fan both on low.


really any piece of metal that increases the surface area will work. If you have any sort of old heatsink you can cut that up, and stick it on with thermal tape.

if you wanna get fancy, Enzotech makes their MOS-C1 which are pretty universal.


----------



## rasdabess

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99*
> 
> really any piece of metal that increases the surface area will work. If you have any sort of old heatsink you can cut that up, and stick it on with thermal tape.
> 
> if you wanna get fancy, Enzotech makes their MOS-C1 which are pretty universal.


Hey bro, can you tell me why the No under the heatsinked section for the 78lmt-s2p rev4.0/5.0 is black instead of red like every other No?


----------



## snitzle_iii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *reflex99*
> 
> really any piece of metal that increases the surface area will work. If you have any sort of old heatsink you can cut that up, and stick it on with thermal tape.
> 
> if you wanna get fancy, Enzotech makes their MOS-C1 which are pretty universal.


interesting. never knew you could do that. thanks. any idea how much the mos-c1 or old stock heat sink will lower it. any tips on removing the bottom metal part? the reviews for the mos-c1 don't look that impressive. the temp for the vrm is tmpwm 1 or 2?


----------



## rasdabess

Can someone tell me why the No under the not heatsink'd is Black and not shaded as red like every other no for the 78lmt-s2p rev4/5?


----------



## Geonerd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rasdabess*
> 
> Can someone tell me why the No under the not heatsink'd is Black and not shaded as red like every other no for the 78lmt-s2p rev4/5?


Huh?


----------



## rasdabess

ignore this


----------



## cdoublejj

Would I be a physco path if i asked if there was printer friendly version?


----------



## dixson01974

So are the VRM any good on a Biostar TA990FXE? It is 4+1 phase power.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dixson01974*
> 
> So are the VRM any good on a Biostar TA990FXE? It is 4+1 phase power.


Biostar has a great circuit on that board.

Few phases, but plenty of overhead.


----------



## dixson01974

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> Biostar has a great circuit on that board.
> 
> Few phases, but plenty of overhead.


True very true sir. People just need to add 2 fans on the VRM cool and skys the limits.


----------



## bokchoi

Quote:


> True very true sir. People just need to add 2 fans on the VRM cool and skys the limits.


lol...if you have to add two fans blowing on your vrm's .... just get a new board....lol...or a really good heatsink with no fan....stock heatsink's are easy to replace....


----------



## dixson01974

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bokchoi*
> 
> lol...if you have to add two fans blowing on your vrm's .... just get a new board....lol...or a really good heatsink with no fan....stock heatsink's are easy to replace....


Well this Biostar is just a replacement and testing mobo until my sabertooth comes back. But still 4.7ghz on a 4+1 phase power is still good and 4.5ghz without the fans.


----------



## bokchoi

thats great if you can get away without the fans but my point was that if you have to go to the extreme of putting TWO fans on the vrm's .....the board is prob not worth it..IMO...and yeah nothing wrong with 4.5....and with sabertooth...your set for anything you want...


----------



## oldcompgeek

Well I currently have a MSI 990FXA-GD80 and rate it very high although alot of ppl think otherwise. It's withstood alot of punishment and just kept on coming. I personally feel that the intel mpower technology has finally crossed over to this mobo, but thats just my opinion. Of all of the 990fx boards that I personally have owned, I regret getting rid of only 1. My Asrock Fatality 990fx. The power phases and dual lan for starters. I mistakenly grouped that board with the fx-8120 that I had sooo many problems with(including windows 7 compatibility with the fx-and the sandforce ssd). The fatality I let go is currently coupled with an 8350 that they have clocked at 4.8ghz stable and still going strong. Boy I can't wait for newegg to pair it with that free memory again, that should entice me to repurchase it...lol. I have heard alot of good on the crosshair V but don't have hands on w/it. Good luck with ur choice!


----------



## cdoublejj

People don't like MSI because their * was catching fire, literally. They used inferior components and had bad runs, it will take them a long time to regain the respect they lost.


----------



## runs2far

@ reflex99

Great Thread, minor corrrection to the DB:

The FM2 ASUS F2A85-M board does not have VRM heatsinks.

Here's a picture of it from [H]


----------



## Flamingo

Just wanted this to be added (i dont have it though)

Saphire PURE BLACK 990FX
8+2+2 phase CPU and DIMM power delivery
8 pin
With heatsinks



Product page : http://www.sapphiretech.com/mb/specfx990.html
Review: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/sapphire_pure_black_990fx/


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flamingo*
> 
> Just wanted this to be added (i dont have it though)
> 
> Saphire PURE BLACK 990FX
> 8+2+2 phase CPU and DIMM power delivery
> 8 pin
> With heatsinks
> 
> -snip-
> 
> Product page : http://www.sapphiretech.com/mb/specfx990.html
> Review: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/sapphire_pure_black_990fx/


Beastly!!! Looks fantastic, and has a dumpload of features. Should Steamroller deliver, this could very well be my next motherboard.


----------



## Krusher33

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Flamingo*
> 
> Just wanted this to be added (i dont have it though)
> 
> Saphire PURE BLACK 990FX
> 8+2+2 phase CPU and DIMM power delivery
> 8 pin
> With heatsinks
> 
> -snip-
> 
> Product page : http://www.sapphiretech.com/mb/specfx990.html
> Review: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/sapphire_pure_black_990fx/
> 
> 
> 
> Beastly!!! Looks fantastic, and has a dumpload of features. Should Steamroller deliver, this could very well be my next motherboard.
Click to expand...

If you're waiting for Steamroller, I'd wait till then for the motherboard as well because of rumors of there being another chipset out at the same time. Personally I think it's all speculations but you never know till it happens.


----------



## Partol

I believe there is a mistake in the FM2 motherboard list.

F2A85-V has 4+2 power phases

Look at "Special Features"
http://www.asus.com/Motherboard/F2A85V/#specifications

F2A85-V PRO has 6 + 2 power phases
http://www.asus.com/Motherboard/F2A85V_PRO/#specifications

by the way, I love the list. very useful info.


----------



## james_rich

Hey, is 75C okay for VRM temps? My mobo(ASUS 990FX rev 1) has two temp sensors, VCORE-1 and VCORE-2 which supposedly monitor VRM temps according to ASUS Thermal radar. When playing BF3 they'll skyrocket to 70C within the first 5 minutes. They're cooled by a small green heatsink, my OC at the moment is 4.3Ghz on 1.34375v.


----------



## Cheezman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *james_rich*
> 
> Hey, is 75C okay for VRM temps? My mobo(ASUS 990FX rev 1) has two temp sensors, VCORE-1 and VCORE-2 which supposedly monitor VRM temps according to ASUS Thermal radar. When playing BF3 they'll skyrocket to 70C within the first 5 minutes. They're cooled by a small green heatsink, my OC at the moment is 4.3Ghz on 1.34375v.


Most VRM setups can take pretty high temperatures; but, I would try to lower that as much as possible to be on the safe side.

I've read VRM's can be safe up to 100c, but, who knows how accurate that _actually is_.

What do you guys think of this VRM cooling setup?


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cheezman*
> 
> Most VRM setups can take pretty high temperatures; but, I would try to lower that as much as possible to be on the safe side.
> 
> I've read VRM's can be safe up to 100c, but, who knows how accurate that _actually is_.
> 
> What do you guys think of this VRM cooling setup?


If you can, drop some heatsinks on them like the Enzotech MOS-C1's.


----------



## Cheezman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tator Tot*
> 
> If you can, drop some heatsinks on them like the Enzotech MOS-C1's.


There is a giant heat sink already on there.


----------



## Tator Tot

Wasn't sure which board model you had, they've got a similar board without the heatsink.


----------



## snitzle_iii

Where to buy enzo c-1. I checked a bunch of websites and couldn't find any


----------



## noobhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Flamingo*
> 
> Just wanted this to be added (i dont have it though)
> 
> Saphire PURE BLACK 990FX
> 8+2+2 phase CPU and DIMM power delivery
> 8 pin
> With heatsinks
> 
> -snip-
> 
> Product page : http://www.sapphiretech.com/mb/specfx990.html
> Review: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/sapphire_pure_black_990fx/
> 
> 
> 
> Beastly!!! Looks fantastic, and has a dumpload of features. Should Steamroller deliver, this could very well be my next motherboard.
Click to expand...

I had to RMA it and the bios is horrible. Also, the FSB is locked pn bios level, forcing you to use their Trixx software. Just saying.


----------



## snitzle_iii

so i just got my mos-c1 in today and trying to put on my ga-880ga-ud3h. looks like there is 20 chips to cover, but i only have 10 chips. should i do place them in a row or go every other (one down and one across) so they make a checker pattern


----------



## runs2far

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snitzle_iii*
> 
> so i just got my mos-c1 in today and trying to put on my ga-880ga-ud3h. looks like there is 20 chips to cover, but i only have 10 chips. should i do place them in a row or go every other (one down and one across) so they make a checker pattern


Sorry for not noticing your VRM cooling post earlier.

I can't see how the MOSFETS are set up or what models Gigabyte has used, but it looks like you need 16 of those mos-c1 to help all the CPU related phases.

Your motherboard has mounting holes for a proper VRM heatsink, why have you not been recommended something in the style of a Thermalright HR-09????

EDIT:
You have to measure the hole spacing and component clearance before mounting a VRM cooling block like the HR-09.


----------



## snitzle_iii

I forgot who, but I believe a mod directed me to get the c1. I'm pretty sure there are 20 to cover. So covering half or 2/3 is not beneficial? All off them need to be covered? Don't know why the hr-09 was not mentioned. Its 4 clusters to each phase. 4+1


----------



## runs2far

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snitzle_iii*
> 
> I forgot who, but I believe a mod directed me to get the c1. I'm pretty sure there are 20 to cover. So covering half or 2/3 is not beneficial? All off them need to be covered? Don't know why the hr-09 was not mentioned. Its 4 clusters to each phase. 4+1


You might as well go all the way now you have bought one package of c1.

The most important part to cool is the lower 4 clusters as they feed the CPU.
The upper single cluster is for the memory controller and it should not heat up as much as the ones feeding the CPU core.

All four clusters for the CPU are stressed evenly, ignoring component variation, they will all need the same degree of cooling.
If you only mount heatsinks on one cluster, the remaining 3 cluster will still overheat.


----------



## snitzle_iii

Ty for the info. So just thinking long run-the coolers should be able to come off by pulling them off then scraping the tape it comes with off with a knife or flat edge? When I get a new comp some years down the road I would like to reuse the c-1 since they cost me a pretty penny  especially if I am getting 2x as many


----------



## runs2far

You can remove the c1 with some care and a thin sharp blade. Don't cut the IC's or the bottom of the c1.

Be careful and don't worry about leftover residue on the motherboard or the c1.

Once you have removed all the c1, you can clean the motherboard and c1 with some patience and isopropyl alcohol.

You can buy new thermal tape later for little money.
I recently got some of this, works fine and should be available in your country.
http://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?tpl=product/product.detail.tpl&no=181&type=Cooling%20solutions&type_sub=Thermal%20Interface&model=AK-TT12-80


----------



## amd-pcmarlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snitzle_iii*
> 
> Where to buy enzo c-1. I checked a bunch of websites and couldn't find any


If your in the UK their are a few sites such as scan.co.uk that sell them, ebay has them all over too


----------



## Artikbot

What about updating the database? I submitted my F2A75M-HD2 months ago, with pretty detailed info.


----------



## Forde3654Eire

I'd like to ask how safe it is to overclock an FX-4170 on the ASRock 970 Extreme3? I will be using a CM Hyper 212 EVO. How much of an overclock should I be expecting? I'm aiming for 4.6Ghz, but I'd like to know if I can go higher. What precautions do I need to take? I know it only has a 4+1 power phase design, but then again, its the best 970 chipset motherboard available in my area.

I wanted to go with either the ASUS M5A97 or M5A97 EVO, seeing as both feature VRM protection, but both are sold out. The ASRock Extreme3 seems to be the only best option.


----------



## Lagpirate

Hi guys, Just a quick question here.
I am currently using a amd fx-8120 on an ASUS 990fx sabertooth and i was wondering what the max temperature on my VRMS (vcores) is. I have my chip clocked @3.7 ghz and it seems like my vrms are getting a little toasty, 'round 68-70c. is this too hot, or am i within the limits? is it possible to replace my current heatsink with an aftermarket copper one?

thankyou in advance for your help


----------



## amd-pcmarlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forde3654Eire*
> 
> I'd like to ask how safe it is to overclock an FX-4170 on the ASRock 970 Extreme3? I will be using a CM Hyper 212 EVO. How much of an overclock should I be expecting? I'm aiming for 4.6Ghz, but I'd like to know if I can go higher. What precautions do I need to take? I know it only has a 4+1 power phase design, but then again, its the best 970 chipset motherboard available in my area.
> 
> I wanted to go with either the ASUS M5A97 or M5A97 EVO, seeing as both feature VRM protection, but both are sold out. The ASRock Extreme3 seems to be the only best option.


Have a look at the M5A99X evo r2.0 available from scan.co.uk in the uk


----------



## Forde3654Eire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd-pcmarlow*
> 
> Have a look at the M5A99X evo r2.0 available from scan.co.uk in the uk


Thanks. Unfortunately, this is not available at my current location. What about the Gigabyte 970A-UD3 or ASUS M5A97 EVO? I've been reading up about those and they seem to fair better than the ASRock 970 Extreme3, with 8+2 and 6+2 power phase designs respectively.


----------



## runs2far

The GA-970A-UD3 board is a good board and people have been able to achieve a good level of OC with it.

Just remember there are no guarantees when you OC.


----------



## AlaskaFox

m5a97 evo is a great board, love mine.

its just not the right board if you plan on one day having xfire or sli


----------



## amd-pcmarlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forde3654Eire*
> 
> Thanks. Unfortunately, this is not available at my current location. What about the Gigabyte 970A-UD3 or ASUS M5A97 EVO? I've been reading up about those and they seem to fair better than the ASRock 970 Extreme3, with 8+2 and 6+2 power phase designs respectively.


Sorry been fitting my cooler so not been on, the ud3 seems to be popular amongst some of overclockers members, both those boards have the potential to give a decent overclock if you can keep your temps down


----------



## AlphaC

Seems it is time for you to add Asrock FM2A85X Extreme6

8+2 phases, (4 with phase doubler +2 igpu) ; Digital , heatsinked , 8 pin power

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/ASRock-FM2A85X-Extreme6-Motherboard/1649/6

Also FM2A85X-ITX 4+2 phase

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/ASRock-FM2A85X-ITX-Motherboard/1735/6

& http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pctreiber.net%2F2013%2Fasrock-fm2a85x-itx-test.html%2F2%23spezifikationen-impressionen


----------



## M0HNKE

Got a question. I own a AsRock 970 extreme3 mobo, and was wondering if I could obtain lower CPUTIN temps by placing these heatsinks-> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835708012 on my motherboard. Thanks!


----------



## xd_1771

^ You've already got VRM heatsinks on your mobo and those would add little.


----------



## Redwoodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd-pcmarlow*
> 
> Sorry been fitting my cooler so not been on, the ud3 seems to be popular amongst some of overclockers members, both those boards have the potential to give a decent overclock if you can keep your temps down


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forde3654Eire*
> 
> I'd like to ask how safe it is to overclock an FX-4170 on the ASRock 970 Extreme3? I will be using a CM Hyper 212 EVO. How much of an overclock should I be expecting? I'm aiming for 4.6Ghz, but I'd like to know if I can go higher. What precautions do I need to take? I know it only has a 4+1 power phase design, but then again, its the best 970 chipset motherboard available in my area.
> 
> I wanted to go with either the ASUS M5A97 or M5A97 EVO, seeing as both feature VRM protection, but both are sold out. The ASRock Extreme3 seems to be the only best option.


The ASRock extreme 3 has pretty similar VRM design to the M5A97,and it does have shut-down protection,and you can over clock that 4130 as high as you'd like seeing as how it's only around 95w stock. I ran a similar ASRock VRM design with an X6 Thuban at 4.0GHz no problems for over a year.


----------



## M0HNKE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redwoodz*
> 
> The ASRock extreme 3 has pretty similar VRM design to the M5A97,and it does have shut-down protection,and you can over clock that 4130 as high as you'd like seeing as how it's only around 95w stock. I ran a similar ASRock VRM design with an X6 Thuban at 4.0GHz no problems for over a year.


Really? Also have the extreme3 and a 6 core thuban. In HWmonitor, i see the CPUTIN temps rise alot, and am scared to oc anything past 3.4. any advice?


----------



## Redwoodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M0HNKE*
> 
> Really? Also have the extreme3 and a 6 core thuban. In HWmonitor, i see the CPUTIN temps rise alot, and am scared to oc anything past 3.4. any advice?


You'll need something a lot better than the stock cooler,with airflow over the VRM heatsinks. I also use a small fan to cool the backside of the CPU socket and VRM. Keep the CPU voltage under 1.45v.


----------



## noobhell

Do you guys think the MSI 760GM-P21 will be safe with a non-overclocked Sempron 190? I'm thinking of getting it for a build for someone and really don't need the PC blowing up. It would be really embarrassing.


----------



## Tator Tot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *noobhell*
> 
> Do you guys think the MSI 760GM-P21 will be safe with a non-overclocked Sempron 190? I'm thinking of getting it for a build for someone and really don't need the PC blowing up. It would be really embarrassing.


Yeah, that should be safe.


----------



## Geonerd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *noobhell*
> 
> Do you guys think the MSI 760GM-P21 will be safe with a non-overclocked Sempron 190? I'm thinking of getting it for a build for someone and really don't need the PC blowing up. It would be really embarrassing.


The chip draws less than 45W at stock speed, you've got miles of headroom. A mild OC seems the only honorable thing to do.


----------



## runelotus

guy's what do you think of my VRM cooling on my Gigabyte 990FXA-D3 ,I shoehorned a Thermalright HR-09 in there, since this board didn't come with mosfet heatsink




i just want to ask if it is ok if i use the thermal pad included in the Kit or i should buy thermal tape to replace it


----------



## Tator Tot

The Thermalpad that comes with those is solid. It's the same kind used to attach heatsinks on GPU's to their VRM & DRAM chips.


----------



## runelotus

Thanks








so it's ok if i keep them on , i was worried that its not that really effective in transfering heat from my mosfets to the Heatsink


----------



## TheLAWNOOB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *runelotus*
> 
> guy's what do you think of my VRM cooling on my Gigabyte 990FXA-D3 ,I shoehorned a Thermalright HR-09 in there, since this board didn't come with mosfet heatsink


How easy and how to mount the HR-09?

Do they run cool?

Do you have the dimensions for the mounting holes?

I would definitely +rep you if you can answer my questions


----------



## runelotus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheLAWNOOB*
> 
> How easy and how to mount the HR-09?
> 
> Do they run cool?
> 
> Do you have the dimensions for the mounting holes?
> 
> I would definitely +rep you if you can answer my questions


There was fair amount of work to mount that thing on the board ,
first I modded the stock Thermalright bracket , as the stock ones will get snag between the Chokes and the capacitor
Then i removed the part that snagged , then epoxied the pushpin attachment part to the sink
to do the customised bracket i adjusted the pushpin attachment part ever so slightly to match the holes then waited a day for the epoxy to cool

the dimensions of the base of sink was 84mmx16mm ,it was just snug above the mosfet heatsink w/o the bracket

i will post pics later of the mods i done to the heatsink

I have no Idea if the run cooler because i do not know what my VRM sensor on my board
, but my OC improved by 500MHz from 4GHz stable to 4.5Ghz stable

The Great thing about this is that the top part of sink gets air flow from my Hyper 212 Evo Tower


----------



## TheLAWNOOB

Thanks a lot for the info. I was considering buying one buy they are out of stock everywhere I looked in Canada.

I'll probably get some Enzotech MOSFET water block once I start water cooling.


----------



## amd-pcmarlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheLAWNOOB*
> 
> Thanks a lot for the info. I was considering buying one buy they are out of stock everywhere I looked in Canada.
> 
> I'll probably get some Enzotech MOSFET water block once I start water cooling.


In the meantime if you still have your stock fan spare mount it so it is blowing over your vrm's this will help keep them cool, although it wont be suitable for a big oc it will help a little


----------



## TheLAWNOOB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd-pcmarlow*
> 
> In the meantime if you still have your stock fan spare mount it so it is blowing over your vrm's this will help keep them cool, although it wont be suitable for a big oc it will help a little


Thanks, I alsready have a 80mm fan blowing at it, plus I already replaced the stock TIM with AS5.

Still burns up during P95 at 4.5Ghz though.


----------



## haveanicelife

hi, thanks for this guide

is it ok purchasing a Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 for an fx6300?

would i need to flash the bios?

and does this motherboard allow for decent overclocks

thanks


----------



## VictorW910i

Hi.I'm new here.








I've done some research on my Asrock M3A UCC(it's on the list) and I've found out that the transistors used by the CPU VRM are these:http://www.electronicsdatasheets.com/pdf-datasheets/advanced-power-electronics-corp/AP86T02GHHF/ and are rated for 75A.
My CPU is now running at stock speed(the NB is OC'ed to [email protected])and undervolted to 1.368v(from 1.424v).
My load temps after 1hour of prime are 56-57C and my case is well ventilated with 1 8cm intake in the front,2 12cm intakes on the side(blowing on CPU,GPU and hopefully the VRM) and one 8cm exhaust in the rear top(PSU).I've noticed that the VRM chokes do get quite hot(keeping my finger on them for more than 1.5seconds during Prime95 hurts) but the MOSFETS are not too hot and are rated for 175C.
So my question iso you think that it would be ok to OC my CPU to about 3.4-3.5ghz without going over 1.392v(the next step in my BIOS)?My full PC specs are in my sig.


----------



## runelotus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *haveanicelife*
> 
> hi, thanks for this guide
> 
> is it ok purchasing a Gigabyte GA-78LMT-USB3 for an fx6300?
> 
> would i need to flash the bios?
> 
> and does this motherboard allow for decent overclocks
> 
> thanks


seem the FX processor is the absolute limit for that board

I would suggest get at least a asus, asrock , or gigabyte 970chipset board as the 900 series boards are specially designed for the FX processor.

as these boards at minimum has a 4+1 power phase, USB3 and sata 3.0 , and if you fancy the FX 83xx 8 core processor. They can run these too

but if your budgets permits , a 990 board with 8+2 power phase is recommended ( a good example budgetwise is the Gigabyte 990FXA-UD3)


----------



## fuc847

the article says that most 8+2 phases don't really add much benefit compared to 4+1. If I am looking at the Gigabyte UD3 (8+2), Biostar TA970 (4+1, said to be very good?), Asrock Extreme3 for around the same price, which one would be best for o/cing a FX6300?


----------



## amd-pcmarlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuc847*
> 
> the article says that most 8+2 phases don't really add much benefit compared to 4+1. If I am looking at the Gigabyte UD3 (8+2), Biostar TA970 (4+1, said to be very good?), Asrock Extreme3 for around the same price, which one would be best for o/cing a FX6300?


8+2 is advised as it reduces heat and is likely to increase oc range a little more, the gigabyte is highly recommended as are the other two, id look more at the gigabyte for the 8+2 but then ive got an asus m5a99x evo r2.0 with my fx6300 and at 4.5ghz 24/7 max 4.8ghz last time i played with it


----------



## Cyrious

Ok, dunno if anyone knows about this but the Asus M3A78-EM in fact does have VRM protection. I was doing some overclocking after getting my Xigmatek Gaia and wondered why my temperatures would steadily climb to 58C before suddenly tanking due to the core clock plummeting to 800mhz before the clock jumped back up to 3600mhz and temperatures started soaring again. I know it wasnt the CPU overheating because ive had it well over the 62C line and it didnt do it.

So if anyone out there manages to get your hands on one of these boards for any reason you dont have to worry about it blowing up should you decide to go and install a PhII x6 on it (yes the board supports all AM3 chips, i looked it up).


----------



## Jared2608

How does the MSI - 990FXA GD65 handle an OC on something like the FX-6300.


----------



## mushroomboy

Something I've noticed, all these 4+1 power phase boards have "warnings" essentially. OC with cooling or some cautionary tale, which after looking up specs made me think about things. Wouldn't it be better to post more in depth information about these boards. Such as what's the data sheet's ratings for power per MOFSET as well as how many MOFSETs per power phase? That would give you a rough indication of how much power each power phase can push.

Just think the current lump of 4+1 as a generic "enough" rating is kind of poorly done. Not to mention some people on here will go off at how poor they are, despite the idea that some boards might have an individual power phase that can push 225w. That alone would power a chip, albeit I wouldn't but you get my point. I think it's something we lack drastically, and sadly, being an enthusiast site and all. Data sheets would give us a much better idea of what we are playing with, instead of just throwing more cooling as a generic solution. Even that is poor as some of these chips are rated for up to 175C, we could boil eggs and then some with those!


----------



## MorbidBlu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mushroomboy*
> 
> Something I've noticed, all these 4+1 power phase boards have "warnings" essentially. OC with cooling or some cautionary tale, which after looking up specs made me think about things. Wouldn't it be better to post more in depth information about these boards. Such as what's the data sheet's ratings for power per MOFSET as well as how many MOFSETs per power phase? That would give you a rough indication of how much power each power phase can push.
> 
> Just think the current lump of 4+1 as a generic "enough" rating is kind of poorly done. Not to mention some people on here will go off at how poor they are, despite the idea that some boards might have an individual power phase that can push 225w. That alone would power a chip, albeit I wouldn't but you get my point. I think it's something we lack drastically, and sadly, being an enthusiast site and all. Data sheets would give us a much better idea of what we are playing with, instead of just throwing more cooling as a generic solution. Even that is poor as some of these chips are rated for up to 175C, we could boil eggs and then some with those!


+1


----------



## Dromihetes

Yes i tend to agree that the boards VRM -s should be rated according to the mosfets used as well ,not only based on the number of phases.

Unfortunately you may find that on some boards the mosfets do not even have a datasheet.Some Nikos mosfets that you can see on MSI boards may not have such ,or if they have it are rated usually at lower than 100C temps.
This combination of Nikos mosfets and low phases number is a killer for most of the MSI AMD boards when you use high end CPU-s or overclock.
Only the new top FM 2 boards feature quality VRM stages.

Also there is the case of the cheaper FM 2 AsRock boards that seem to have issues with the GPU voltage stage.On some board one stage seems to be enough for this ones it isn t ,bad design most probable.


----------



## oldcompgeek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flamingo*
> 
> Just wanted this to be added (i dont have it though)
> 
> Saphire PURE BLACK 990FX
> 8+2+2 phase CPU and DIMM power delivery
> 8 pin
> With heatsinks
> 
> 
> 
> Product page : http://www.sapphiretech.com/mb/specfx990.html
> Review: http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/sapphire_pure_black_990fx/


I tried finding one of those forever, but the only ONE that I could find in North America was way overpriced at like 300 bucks on e-bay. I think they're available for Europe only unless it's changed since I bought my gd80 990fxa from MSI a cpl of months ago... Sweet looking mobo, and their gfx cards haven't failed me yet!


----------



## cdoublejj

how about these boards?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138376

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157215


----------



## cdoublejj

Is the GA-MA785-US2H also 4+1?

EDIT: It appears so.

EDIT: the lists won't scroll left or right, in fact there are no longer any scroll bars.


----------



## amd-pcmarlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> Is the GA-MA785-US2H also 4+1?
> 
> EDIT: It appears so.
> 
> EDIT: the lists won't scroll left or right, in fact there are no longer any scroll bars.


If you left click to highlight text and start to scroll across it will allow you to see the remaining text


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd-pcmarlow*
> 
> If you left click to highlight text and start to scroll across it will allow you to see the remaining text


Actualy you won't believe this but, that doesn't work. that's how I've been scrolling it up and down but, no go for left and right. I'll try it in Chrome.

EDIT: Chrome does it but, Palemoon won't


----------



## Himo5

The only way I ever managed this in Firefox was to change the screen resolution, At least this gives you access to all the tabs.


----------



## cdoublejj




----------



## prankstare

From the list I can see both the ASUS M5A99X EVO (R2.0) and M5A99FX PRO R2.0 have the same 6+2 power phase but the latter is not listed green. Does that mean the 99FX PRO hasn't got good phase quality compared to the 99X EVO? Also, how does the ASUS M5A99FX PRO R2.0 stack up against Gigabyte GA990FXA-UD3 in terms of overclocking? Which one is better?

I am looking for a motherboard which will overclock the FX-8350 up to at least 4.5GHz stable and not harming other components (want this build to last for some 3 or 4 years without major problems).


----------



## amd-pcmarlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prankstare*
> 
> From the list I can see both the ASUS M5A99X EVO (R2.0) and M5A99FX PRO R2.0 have the same 6+2 power phase but the latter is not listed green. Does that mean the 99FX PRO hasn't got good phase quality compared to the 99X EVO? Also, how does the ASUS M5A99FX PRO R2.0 stack up against Gigabyte GA990FXA-UD3 in terms of overclocking? Which one is better?
> 
> I am looking for a motherboard which will overclock the FX-8350 up to at least 4.5GHz stable and not harming other components (want this build to last for some 3 or 4 years without major problems).


I have my fx 6300 oc'ed on the evo r2.0 board at 4.5ghz using a thermalright sb-e extreme air cooler with no issues, max core temp is 49ºc


----------



## Mr.N00bLaR

Anyone has information on this board: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157357

ASRock FM2A85X-ITX


----------



## South80

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr.N00bLaR*
> 
> Anyone has information on this board: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157357
> 
> ASRock FM2A85X-ITX


Looks decent. It has a heatsinked 4+2 vrm phase so it should be ok.

Having said that, there were some vrm issues with thier A75 boards.


----------



## Mark the Bold

^^^^

I was looking at this board, but word was on this forum that they were catching fire. Literally catching fire.

Something to do with uber-voltage throttling in the BIOS screen. Maybe a BIOS patch fixed this but I was just looking at this board myself but shied away for this reason. I am building this for a friend and thats the last thing I need on my conscience.

So I went with a matx gigabyte board myself just for piece of mind. Pity, because the bitfenix prodigy looks like a sweet case and I really did not need expansion pci-e slots.......

check out the asrock ASRock FM2A85X-ITX thread on this forum for more info.


----------



## Kyronn94

I think that I've already posted about this board, but I just wanted to clarify something.

I've got this board:

http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/M5A78LMUSB3/

With some enzo tech heat sinks on the VRM's and I just wanted to know what exactly is meant by '140W' and 'OC with cooling'.
The CPU in question is a Phenom II X4 955 BE.
I will be using it in an Arc mini case with an H100, so 3 fans will be around the CPU area.

What would be the highest VCore you would put through this board?

The CPU has been OC'd in the past to 3.6GHz, but I've never really gone over stock volts, about 1.4V.

Many thanks.


----------



## Cyrious

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyronn94*
> 
> I think that I've already posted about this board, but I just wanted to clarify something.
> 
> I've got this board:
> 
> http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/M5A78LMUSB3/
> 
> With some enzo tech heat sinks on the VRM's and I just wanted to know what exactly is meant by '140W' and 'OC with cooling'.
> The CPU in question is a Phenom II X4 955 BE.
> I will be using it in an Arc mini case with an H100, so 3 fans will be around the CPU area.
> 
> What would be the highest VCore you would put through this board?
> 
> The CPU has been OC'd in the past to 3.6GHz, but I've never really gone over stock volts, about 1.4V.
> 
> Many thanks.


By 140W its indicating the maximum TDP chip that can be installed on the board. Generally the higher this value the better as the board's power circuitry is built to handle that kind of load.
By OC w/ cooling, it means that the VRMs need a heatsink and sometimes a fan to help things along, as running bare will do anything from tripping VRM protection (which throttles the chip) to causing the mosfets to overheat and burn. I have to deal with the same thing on my board (run a fan over the bare 'fets) and it is enough to keep the VRM protection from tripping

As for highest vcore, i ram 1.5v through my processor on my board and it handles it well enough, vdroop aside. You should be ok to run up to 1.475 without worrying about the board burning.


----------



## Imprezzion

Got a guy here on the local forum going all bananas about the AsRock 970 Extreme4.
According to him it's complete garbage and blows up when using a stock 965BE.
He's scaring a guy whos running a 955BE on it @ 4Ghz 1.45v into ditching the OC and the board cause it can randomly blow up..

Now, if this was MSI i'd agree but afaik the 970 Ex4 is a pretty decent 4+1 sinked board with decent components and should be capable to run any CPU at stock and a Phenom 2 x4 on 4Ghz?

Or is he right and is it a dangerously bad board.. Kinda like MSI


----------



## amd-pcmarlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imprezzion*
> 
> Got a guy here on the local forum going all bananas about the AsRock 970 Extreme4.
> According to him it's complete garbage and blows up when using a stock 965BE.
> He's scaring a guy whos running a 955BE on it @ 4Ghz 1.45v into ditching the OC and the board cause it can randomly blow up..
> 
> Now, if this was MSI i'd agree but afaik the 970 Ex4 is a pretty decent 4+1 sinked board with decent components and should be capable to run any CPU at stock and a Phenom 2 x4 on 4Ghz?
> 
> Or is he right and is it a dangerously bad board.. Kinda like MSI


Never heard anything bad about asrock, the fact its heatsinked and i know several oc'ers with that board leads me to think its not the board at fault especialky at stock


----------



## CannedBullets

Okay, I should have reported this a month ago when I attempted to overclock my FX-6300 to 4.1 GHz on my ASRock 970 Extreme3. Anyways for some reason the socket temperature kept throttling at 62 to 62 degrees C socket temperature, which is weird because the maximum safe socket temperature for FX chips should be around 72 degrees C and HWMonitor said that my CPU core temperature was around 52 degrees C during stress testing. No matter what setting I tried, it would throttle. Then I just remembered today that on this database it said my motherboard throttled FX eight-cores. So maybe the Extreme3 doesn't play well with FX six-cores also? I'm not sure if its just me though. Yeah I'm getting an Asus Sabertooth 990FX R2 and Corsair H80i to go for an overclock of 4.5 GHz for Battlefield 4 and Watch Dogs.


----------



## amd-pcmarlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CannedBullets*
> 
> Okay, I should have reported this a month ago when I attempted to overclock my FX-6300 to 4.1 GHz on my ASRock 970 Extreme3. Anyways for some reason the socket temperature kept throttling at 62 to 62 degrees C socket temperature, which is weird because the maximum safe socket temperature for FX chips should be around 72 degrees C and HWMonitor said that my CPU core temperature was around 52 degrees C during stress testing. No matter what setting I tried, it would throttle. Then I just remembered today that on this database it said my motherboard throttled FX eight-cores. So maybe the Extreme3 doesn't play well with FX six-cores also? I'm not sure if its just me though. Yeah I'm getting an Asus Sabertooth 990FX R2 and Corsair H80i to go for an overclock of 4.5 GHz for Battlefield 4 and Watch Dogs.


Got my fx 6300 oc'ed at 4.5ghz with a thermalright sb-e extreme on an asus m5a99x evo r2.0 with no throttling :-D


----------



## Nighthawk12

Hello all,

Can I use FX 6300 processor with ASUS M5A78L-M/U3 motherboard? I'm not going to overclock or anything ever. Would I need to update the bios in order to use it... and If yes can I update it with the FX 6300 itself? And yeah last question I have heard some throttling issues?
Please help I'm gonna buy it soon.


----------



## nz3777

Hows this combo look to you guys for a daily gamer- Fx 6300 with a Gigabyte 990fx ud3 board? Iam hoping I can get it up to 5ghz on water but well see what shes got!







.....The reason your asking is iam assuming your getting that board at microcenter as a cpu/mobo bundle right? I think you need to update the bios on the motherboard yes!


----------



## Nighthawk12

No I'm not getting it as a bundle. I'm very tight on budget that's why I'm looking for it.


----------



## amd-pcmarlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nighthawk12*
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> Can I use FX 6300 processor with ASUS M5A78L-M/U3 motherboard? I'm not going to overclock or anything ever. Would I need to update the bios in order to use it... and If yes can I update it with the FX 6300 itself? And yeah last question I have heard some throttling issues?
> Please help I'm gonna buy it soon.


Check the asus website for the cpu support list, it will tell u which bios it requires if it supports that chip, then if it doesnt support it without a bios update you will need an older supported chip to update the bios or it wont boot, if your buying it from a reputable pc componenr shop they will usually flash it for you


----------



## Roph

Noticed a little error in the AM3+ table, the Gigabyte GA-970A-DS3 has a 4 pin CPU power connector, not 8 pin. Source: I'm looking at it right now









My board is a rev 3.0 though, maybe earlier revisions had 8 pins?


----------



## Alastair

I am looking at an ASUS M5A990FX PRO R2.0 to replace my 990FXA-GD65. However the Asus board is advertised as 6+2+2 phase vs my MSI's 8+2 phase.... Which is better?


----------



## mushroomboy

Was lookin to cool my mofsets on my new ASRock 970 Pro3 when I stumbled on this. It throttles when I throw a Vishera at it going above 4.0GHz and 1.2vcore..... Though it can run the chip stable at lower speeds than my friend's gigabyte..... Though I'm starting to question that, it was the one that got taken out by a power outage and after looking the VRMs didn't seem right. maybe the new board he gets from the RMA proves things better.

Anyways, was looking for a cheaper mofset solution to what was posted. modDIY has some nice solutions, gonna check that out once the board is back in my hands and see how they work out. I'll let ya all know, unless other people already use the site. In which case, ignore me. In my defense, this thread has 123 pages to sift through..... Yeah, no.


----------



## kwint

is there anyway we can get a copy of the spreadsheets for a certain socket? Would come in handy for comparison purposes when planning a build.


----------



## Alastair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kwint*
> 
> is there anyway we can get a copy of the spreadsheets for a certain socket? Would come in handy for comparison purposes when planning a build.


Yeah maybe so we can print it on paper.


----------



## Alastair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kwint*
> 
> is there anyway we can get a copy of the spreadsheets for a certain socket? Would come in handy for comparison purposes when planning a build.


Yeah maybe so we can print it on paper.


----------



## amd-pcmarlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roph*
> 
> Noticed a little error in the AM3+ table, the Gigabyte GA-970A-DS3 has a 4 pin CPU power connector, not 8 pin. Source: I'm looking at it right now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My board is a rev 3.0 though, maybe earlier revisions had 8 pins?


Nope i had the 1.2 and that only had a 4pin socket too


----------



## miklkit

Based on information I have recieved from Gigabyte you might want to rethink the ratings you have given their boards.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1023100/official-gigabyte-ga-990fxa-series-owners-thread-club/6520#post_20553747


----------



## robcowboy73

I will second that my UD3 has been nothing but trouble at this point i am toying with going intel as the 8350 is over heating boards all over the only one that I haven't herd so hare is the ROG boards is there a AM3+ board that doesn't suffer from the VRM overheating


----------



## CannedBullets

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *robcowboy73*
> 
> I will second that my UD3 has been nothing but trouble at this point i am toying with going intel as the 8350 is over heating boards all over the only one that I haven't herd so hare is the ROG boards is there a AM3+ board that doesn't suffer from the VRM overheating


Asus's 990FX Sabertooth boards are pretty good.


----------



## miklkit

I am using an MSI 990FXA-GD80 and it is performing very well, with cool temps. I can touch the VRMs while stress testing and they are only warm. This is at 4.6 ghz. It passes IBT at 4.7 ghz but not OCCT. Yet. And it has a great bios.

But my only previous experience is with the UD3, which I classify as poorly engineered. After changing just the motherboard even the CPU temperatures went down a few degrees C.

Probably any of the top boards will work with the 8350 ok. It's the bargain basement and just plain poorly engineered boards that are not good enough.


----------



## robcowboy73

I have a Sabertooth mk 1 in my other rig and the same happens to that no were near as bad but still get as hot as the cpu on fall chat . it hovers around the 42 c on lite load on fall load gets up in to the 60-65 c but still stable

I don't have deep pockets so to buy a top end board will take me two or three moths to save £150-£200 the ud3 set me back £125.99
It seems to me the best manufacturers is Asus as far as they built the 990fx chips I think .
All the 990fx mother boards suffer to some degree with getting hot
on a plus not I herd that Gigabyte have beefed up the heat sink on the ud3 rev4 it the same one as on the ud5 board


----------



## CannedBullets

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *robcowboy73*
> 
> I have a Sabertooth mk 1 in my other rig and the same happens to that no were near as bad but still get as hot as the cpu on fall chat . it hovers around the 42 c on lite load on fall load gets up in to the 60-65 c but still stable


Just out of curiosity but what cooling do you have? I'm on a Gen3 with an H100i and an FX-6300 clocked to 4.5 GHz.


----------



## robcowboy73

Standard on the Sabertooth with a Kingston hyper x DDR fans that help and I change the heat sink on the ud3 to a Thermalright HR-09U MOSFET heatpipe cooler its a bit better its stop crashing but I down graded the cpu to a AMD Phenom II x 4 and that rig is the home theater system now just can't use for anything else


----------



## CannedBullets

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *robcowboy73*
> 
> Standard on the Sabertooth with a Kingston hyper x DDR fans that help and I change the heat sink on the ud3 to a Thermalright HR-09U MOSFET heatpipe cooler its a bit better its stop crashing but I down graded the cpu to a AMD Phenom II x 4 and that rig is the home theater system now just can't use for anything else


Stock cooling on the Sabertooth? Yeah stock cooling is crap. So for the UD3 those after market heatsinks work better than the stock heatsinks?


----------



## robcowboy73

I wanted a water block for it but just cant find the right one to fit all I now is that the Koolance universal block fits but doesn't cover all the chips so you have to use a heat plate to stretch it out
Just been to see your set up ? are thews brawn fans as good as they clam I just ordered 4 Corsair SP120 Quiet Edition Case Fan for a new case I am building this rig will be ott but I am loosing faith in amd they seem to be happy going nowhere and the steamroller chip is on hold till next year ? are they having problems with it or just sitting on it till Intel come out with something new


----------



## CannedBullets

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *robcowboy73*
> 
> I wanted a water block for it but just cant find the right one to fit all I now is that the Koolance universal block fits but doesn't cover all the chips so you have to use a heat plate to stretch it out


No I meant the stock cooling which comes with AMD CPUs, the VRM heatsinks on the Sabertooth are fine.


----------



## robcowboy73

sorry I have a Arctic cpu heat sink


----------



## robcowboy73

I am hoping to go water cooled before the end of the year
I just need rads rez and a cupple of 90s then I can get putting it all in


----------



## novaguy1

I've had *no issues* running a 1045T on my GA-78LMT-US2H, yet your table says it doesn't support 6-core CPUs.

Also, the reviews for that board on Newegg and Amazon are quite good, so I don't know what warrants it to say "known for problems." Mine's worked swimmingly since 2009.


----------



## xxpenguinxx

Do you mean the GA-*MA*78LMT-US2H?

There are multiple revisions of that board, so maybe the one you have is not know for problems. These charts are just a guideline, they're not to be taken as 100% fact, as stated in Note 3 on the first post.

For a few years I was running a Phenom II x4 965 @ 4Ghz on a GA-MA78G-DS3HP. I added heatsinks to the VRMs to keep them cool. When I first got the board the VRMs would hit 70C, so I added some heat sinks to them which brought them down to 40C. This board is listed at "No OC" but it worked fine for me.

Also this site is dedicated to extreme overclockers & enthusiest, so we try to recommend the best. Having something that just works won't cut it for us.


----------



## robcowboy73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *novaguy1*
> 
> I've had *no issues* running a 1045T on my GA-78LMT-US2H, yet your table says it doesn't support 6-core CPUs.
> 
> Also, the reviews for that board on Newegg and Amazon are quite good, so I don't know what warrants it to say "known for problems." Mine's worked swimmingly since 2009.


I won't read reviews from this online stores as they only let good reviews stay up. after all they are trying to sell it so can't blame them
I got court out with the ud3 board







the best thing to do is come on sites like this and find out for your self


----------



## oldcompgeek

I apologize if I have missed it, but I am looking for the asrock FM2 A85 extreme chipset VRM information please. I am looking for the choices with the highest VRM count and so far there are just 2 choices. Thank you! Also, any direction will be appreciated in selecting the best. The ECS "GOLDEN" is another a85 that I'd like to read up on too!!

oldcompgeek


----------



## cdoublejj

what are the phases on...

ASUS F2A55-M LK PLUS, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131885

ASRock FM2A55M-DGS, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157332

ASUS A55M-E FM2 AMD A55, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132030

ASUS F1A55-M LE, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131870

ASRock A55M-VS, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157361

i'm looking for a 50-66 dollar USD FM1 and also an FM2 board(s) that can handle overclocking. if i have to add heat sinks that's no problem.


----------



## MacLeod

Maybe I'm just a total moron or something but I can't see anything on the OP under the different sockets. It's just blank on IE, Chrome and Firefox. Can't see anything on my Note 2 browser either. Am I missing a plug in or something? Sorry if this has been asked and answered but this thread is 63 pages long so I thought I'd just ask.


----------



## xxpenguinxx

Is your time and date correct?


----------



## oldcompgeek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MacLeod*
> 
> Maybe I'm just a total moron or something but I can't see anything on the OP under the different sockets. It's just blank on IE, Chrome and Firefox. Can't see anything on my Note 2 browser either. Am I missing a plug in or something? Sorry if this has been asked and answered but this thread is 63 pages long so I thought I'd just ask.


I had that problem as well, but it when I had 1st installed Win7 64, but after all the updating, adobe flash, reader, acrobat, and air as well as java and dot net 4, it worked great... I'd reckon that it would have to be something to do with either a plug-in or a setting on the browser... but I am no expert by any stretch.

Good Luck


----------



## Imprezzion

To continue on the overheating VRM story, the Gigabyte 970 UD3 overheats very quickly and throttles using a FX8320 overclocked.

I switched it for the ASUS M5A99X EVO and that handled everything I threw at it without a hitch.

Also, I had a 1100T for quite a while and it ran fine on 4.12Ghz 1.488v on a M4A79T Deluxe and CHIV but it would fail to even run 3.8 on any MSI board which is quite logical tbh haha. It even took out a P980 SLI board.. Was running LinX and it just blew the VRMs 40 minutes into the test..


----------



## cdoublejj

can any tell how many phases these boards have?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157356

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157365


----------



## Roph

They both look like 4+1 designs, with low quality components also.

They're also both intel boards. You're posting in the AMD section here


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roph*
> 
> They both look like 4+1 designs, with low quality components also.
> 
> They're also both intel boards. You're posting in the AMD section here


there isn't an intel VRM thread which sucks because it's little touched on subject, there are crappy VRM/phase setup on the lower cost intels boards, boards that can on oc. i'm lucky my intel 775 msi board didn't catch fire but, it took a while before i knew why i had to RMA 3 time whitin 6 months.


----------



## MishelLngelo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imprezzion*
> 
> To continue on the overheating VRM story, the Gigabyte 970 UD3 overheats very quickly and throttles using a FX8320 overclocked.
> 
> I switched it for the ASUS M5A99X EVO and that handled everything I threw at it without a hitch.
> 
> Also, I had a 1100T for quite a while and it ran fine on 4.12Ghz 1.488v on a M4A79T Deluxe and CHIV but it would fail to even run 3.8 on any MSI board which is quite logical tbh haha. It even took out a P980 SLI board.. Was running LinX and it just blew the VRMs 40 minutes into the test..


Since you mentioned Gigabyte MB and it's VRM, I would like to ask a question if you don't mind, I have a Ga 870a-UD3 MB, (pretty close to 970 I hear) it has a decent VRM and keeps my Ph II x4 965 buzzing just fine at 4.2 GHz. Now comes a (maybe) problem. HW monitor and few other testing programs keep on telling me there is an 80c temperature reading. HW Mon tells me it is on Tmpin2 and others call it Temperature3. First two temps I located what are they for but for this one I supposed (and few people told me) that it is VRM temperature and here's the kicker, even before I put a substantial cooler over it (TIM and everything) by touching it there was no way it was over 40c, probably less. It does not change if I underclock and undervolt everything or under stress testing. Voltages are rock steady too and never got any throttling 'till 4.4 GHz but it's getting unstable because of other factors over 4.2 GHz. (mainly because I refuse to go to higher voltages than max recommended. Had an Athlon II 270 on this MB and those 80c stayed the same but no way that Athlon could load VRM anywhere close even at 4.1 GHz. Other temps are just fine and way below maximum recommended, no matter what. Newest possible BIOS too, the works. This is bugging me since the beginning. Talking to Gigabyte and forum that deals with it was no help either.


----------



## Imprezzion

Not all sensors can be read properly by software and some aren't even present which usually results in illogical or stuck values.

A 965BE at 4.2Ghz won't put as much load on the board / VRMs as a FX8320 @ 4.8Ghz with >1.50v in terms of power consumption.

I still wouldn't recommend the board, but as it is a 8+2 design and seems to be doing quite allright there's no need to worry.


----------



## MishelLngelo

Stuck with this MB for now until going to something all new, it has all the ports ever invented except ISA (lol) and using every one of them. Everything rock stable, so it means it's a keeper for now. That temp got me jittery, that's all. Haven't seen temperature like that since the famous Athlon 1333. With some mods to cooling I would recommend it for even x6 Phenoms.


----------



## EniGma1987

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MishelLngelo*
> 
> Since you mentioned Gigabyte MB and it's VRM, I would like to ask a question if you don't mind, I have a Ga 870a-UD3 MB, (pretty close to 970 I hear) it has a decent VRM and keeps my Ph II x4 965 buzzing just fine at 4.2 GHz. Now comes a (maybe) problem. HW monitor and few other testing programs keep on telling me there is an 80c temperature reading. HW Mon tells me it is on Tmpin2 and others call it Temperature3. First two temps I located what are they for but for this one I supposed (and few people told me) that it is VRM temperature and here's the kicker, even before I put a substantial cooler over it (TIM and everything) by touching it there was no way it was over 40c, probably less. It does not change if I underclock and undervolt everything or under stress testing. Voltages are rock steady too and never got any throttling 'till 4.4 GHz but it's getting unstable because of other factors over 4.2 GHz. (mainly because I refuse to go to higher voltages than max recommended. Had an Athlon II 270 on this MB and those 80c stayed the same but no way that Athlon could load VRM anywhere close even at 4.1 GHz. Other temps are just fine and way below maximum recommended, no matter what. Newest possible BIOS too, the works. This is bugging me since the beginning. Talking to Gigabyte and forum that deals with it was no help either.


Maybe it is a sensor near the southbridge chip. Those little chips and their tiny heatsink are always quite hot to the touch on any board I have used in recent years.


----------



## MishelLngelo

Just checked again, no chance of anything being that hot. Just like Imprezzion said, probably a false alarm. In BIOS there is no value like that. But still bugs me thou.


----------



## Imprezzion

Semi irrelevant, but I checked HWMonitor for my P8Z68-V Pro (Intel Z68, Socket 1155 Sandy Bridge) and it reads TZ00, TZ01, SYSTIN, CPUTIN, AUXTIN and TMPIN3. The two TZ temps are stuck at 28 and 30c, never move. So they are incorrect / non-existing sensors. The rest functions where in CPUTIN is the same as CPU Package Temp. TMPIN3 jumps around quite a bit but it reads mostly ambient valeus so it's probably casetemp sensor.

SYSTIN is chipset, AUXTIN probably southbridge?


----------



## robcowboy73

I have a question I have been trying to get a reply out of gigabyte all day the first is can I buy the updated heat sink on the UD3 rev4 boards for as I have the rev3 so shod be the same underneath.
I have had no reply other than this is a sales department not a parts and was told to go back to the shop it came from
they need to work on there PR or they will have no one to buy there boards. I think they have lost a lot of costumer (I am one sorry to say Gigabyte)
I now the Thermalright HR-09U MOSFET heatpipe cooler (Type3) will fit but it will never look good on this board
I think I will end up scraping it if I can't get them to send the part to keep a good looking board the way it is but at the mo it has a 80mm fan sitting above it held in place with cable ties UGLY


----------



## miklkit

The UD3 R4 VRM heat sink will NOT fit the R3 board as it is much larger than the R3 heat sink. Here is a pic of a UD3 R4 with an Enzotech MST-88 from a UD3 R3 sitting on top of it.


----------



## robcowboy73

well it looks like a new board will be coming my way I think I will hold off util Christmas is out the way as the kiddies come first







. ? do Intel boards suffer with VRM I have been an AMD nut sins the 90's the last Intel board I had was a P4 god that takes me back
Do the ROG boards suffer I need to do some digging to find a good replacement
thank's for the info


----------



## miklkit

I have developed a pet peeve about people who buy a $200 cpu and then insist on putting it on a $50 motherboard. I was one of those people as I bought a $50 gigabyte 990FXA-UD3, except I paid $150 instead of the $50 it's worth.









As to replacements, some people like Asrock and some people are uncomfortable with them. ASUS is still solid. For MSI only the 990FXA-GD80 is good enough.


----------



## MishelLngelo

If you have splurged for a UD7, you would have the most robust MB on the market today. I agree that getting a low end MB to go with high end CPU is not going to make a happy camper. As for replacement, Asus comes with it's own set of quirks, Asrock does not have that high end MBs and after all of my experience with MSI, somebody would have to be my mortal enemy for me to recommend it.


----------



## robcowboy73

I can't comment on Asrock or MSI but I now that as long as I live I will never buy a another Gigabyte board and the UD3 rev 3 I paid £120 that is about $160 or $180 US I think and on Gigabite own web site they say it will run the latest AMD FX chip so I went out a got a 8320 and now it just about copes with phenom 2 - 4 core with a fan planted over the top of the VRM . I am going back to Asus as the Sabertooth 990FX I got for the kids has never mist a beet .
I don't now they can defend that clam if it was a house hold appliance it would have had a recall . I am going to try and save up for a new Sabertooth R2 as Dabs is selling them for £139.99 knowing my luck they will go back up to £160 by the Christmas lol


----------



## EniGma1987

ASRock has pretty average implementation of everything, nothing special but nothing bad. They give a lot of features for the money but their high end boards are a complete ripoff. Also, ASRock is very far behind in bios development. Often they dont even update AGESA code for new CPUs. For a cheap setup they are great, for an upper midrange or high end system you should stay away from them.


----------



## cdoublejj

doe any one know the phase count on this board? is it the same as the A960G+?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138373


----------



## MishelLngelo

3+1 bare ones , no coolers either, yuck.


----------



## robcowboy73

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MishelLngelo*
> 
> 3+1 bare ones , no coolers either, yuck.


now that is a cheep board I have just given something like that away.
don't get me wrong these smaller boards are grate for a mini home theater system or win office but that is all


----------



## oldcompgeek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> doe any one know the phase count on this board? is it the same as the A960G+?
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138373


I have that exact mobo on the test bench as we speak, and I seriously wanted to take a hammer to it...lol about 10PM this eve after work. I went through 3 video cards, just trying to get it well enough for the old lady to watch her HD movies on our 46 and realized the bridges and VRM's are unusually HOT!! Put a little fan on them but it's going into file 13 as soon as the Asus arrives... (M5A78L-M/USB3) as I know it's solid. Just a warning bud, and no core unlocker that works.


----------



## HeatPwnz

Hello
I've came here to ask for some help, if perhaps anyone had similar OC issues with msi 990fxa-gd80
I'm having a lot of bad luck with my fx8350... or motherboard is msi 990fx-gd80
I was trying to clock it and tweak around with it and got some really misarble results and I have a lot of questions
1.) I managed to make my fx stable on prime @ 4.3ghz, only on 1.4V (load 1.32V in load - cpuz)
2.) then I tried going on 4.4 but my vcore limit in bios is only 1.44V (load 1.36V in load - cpuz) and I dont know why, and every voltage below that was complete failure with one of cores in prime
3.) then I tried running same settings like in 1.) step and got core failure again...

can someone guide me or something because I cant belive I'm having such a bad luck with a cpu, or why my mobo doesn't have more V-Core Options, i'm only limited to 1.44V, while lookin at others they had up to 1.6V on same mobo?


----------



## miklkit

This isn't the best thread for this topic, but.

In the bios you can not go over 1.449V. MSI did that for safety or insurance reasons. But if you look on your installation cd you will find a utility called click Bios II. This is the best thing since buttered bread.

It runs in windows and has extended ranges for all settings. For instance you could run your cpu at 1.9V if you want. It is great because you can read the guides and make changes as you read them, then just reboot and the changes are applied.

Mine is currently at 4.7ghz. I took a shot at 4.8 but hit the voltage wall, so it will stay at 4.7. The GD80 runs nice and cool too. My vrm/drmos run at 36-42C depending on use.


----------



## byterhythm

I am planning to upgrade to a new motherboard from my existing entry level board (880 chipset) mainly because of USB 3, SATA 3 and a better board layout. (My graphics card is crushing the sata ports in my current board







)

Any feedback about this board?

Gigabyte GA-970A-DS3P:
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4591#ov

I will be using my Phenom 960T and will possibly, upgrade to the FX 63xx in the future. I will be overclocking.


----------



## oldcompgeek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *byterhythm*
> 
> I am planning to upgrade to a new motherboard from my existing entry level board (880 chipset) mainly because of USB 3, SATA 3 and a better board layout. (My graphics card is crushing the sata ports in my current board
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> Any feedback about this board?
> 
> Gigabyte GA-970A-DS3P:
> http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4591#ov
> 
> I will be using my Phenom 960T and will possibly, upgrade to the FX 63xx in the future. I will be overclocking.


Well I can say that a Giga 970A-D3 that I bought back in September of 2011 is still going strong albeit a lower grade mobo than you're considering. I had to add heatsinks to the vrm area but it's one mobo that has started EVERY TIME reguardless of the cpu. It's had Phenoms and Athlon X4's and even a Semp 145 and ran every time. I can't say if the BIOS is the same but the only thing I didn't care for was the Memory settings, but then again, it was over 2 years ago when new... Good luck!


----------



## BYOGamingPC

Great information! Thanks for the work!


----------



## Stefag40

Gigabyte Ga-970a-ds3 Rev 3.0 Fd bios ,will this mobo work with fx 8320/8350?? or should i will be fine with fx 6300??


----------



## oldcompgeek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stefag40*
> 
> Gigabyte Ga-970a-ds3 Rev 3.0 Fd bios ,will this mobo work with fx 8320/8350?? or should i will be fine with fx 6300??


The 6300 is fine in my book, but then again I am partial to 4 and 6 core CPU's... If you're planning to overclock though, I might stay away from 8 cores as the phase count is going to be barely enough to cover the TDP if that... Good luck bud.


----------



## xxpenguinxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stefag40*
> 
> Gigabyte Ga-970a-ds3 Rev 3.0 Fd bios ,will this mobo work with fx 8320/8350?? or should i will be fine with fx 6300??


I do not see the FX 8320 or 8350 on the supported CPU list. You might want to contact gigabyte before buying the board. The FX 8300 is supported so I don't see why those are not.
http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4385#


----------



## oldcompgeek

Apologies, as the actual source at Gigabyte support couldn't confirm the compatibility and/or safe oc'ing of the 8320 or the 8350


----------



## Stefag40

Oke Thank you all but i already bought this mobo and i think i will go with FX 6300


----------



## oldcompgeek

I wish ya lots of success with them! I'm still playing with this old MSI NF750-G55 / Athlon II X4 620 combo that I dug outta the junkyard. I have read and heard so much about the VRM's "catching fire" and "blowing" but so far so good, and it actually has some nice features too for a 2009 era mobo. I didn't really expect it to boot anyway as I had removed it from a customers rig awhile back and it was in a stack of about 12 as well... It seems fine for stock speeds and runs every time.. Just sum'n to play with as new stuff kinda gets old from time to time. Maybe I'll change out the thermal paste on the heatsinks and see what happens with a mild 4ghz overclock...?? lol


----------



## amd-pcmarlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xxpenguinxx*
> 
> I do not see the FX 8320 or 8350 on the supported CPU list. You might want to contact gigabyte before buying the board. The FX 8300 is supported so I don't see why those are not.
> http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4385#


The 8320 and 8350 should run in that but its only a 970 chipset so oc would be risky, id stick to the 6300 or go for a 990 chipset with at least 6+2 vrm, i had the fx6300 in that and a mild oc was just about ok, got a free upgrade when i had to take the board back when faulty memory fried it


----------



## crackdaddy

Is there a downloadable version of this database? I noticed some of the info to the right is blocked off,
it would be nice to have a pdf version available to put on my phone for consultation, nice list. appreciate the effort.


----------



## miklkit

To read the whole chart: Right click on the chart, scroll down to "this frame", select "open frame in new tab".


----------



## Gundersanne

I'm getting an Asus m5a99x evo r2.0, planning to oc an fx 8350 to 4.7-4.8 ghz with a phanteks 14pe,
I'm wondering if the vrm solution on the asus is sufficient to handle that, as it is only 6+2 phases, will it stress the vrm too much for 24/7?


----------



## johnsmith7

Hey...can any one solve this is about the Manufacturing tech of ASUS M5A78L-M LE motherboard which supports 32nm CPUs. Is it compatible with the 45nm manufacturing tech of AMD Athlon X2 260 processors?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## Gundersanne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *johnsmith7*
> 
> Hey...can any one solve this is about the Manufacturing tech of ASUS M5A78L-M LE motherboard which supports 32nm CPUs. Is it compatible with the 45nm manufacturing tech of AMD Athlon X2 260 processors?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Yea, AM3+ boards are backwards compatible with AM3 processors

You can also just see all the info on cpu compatibility here: http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/M5A78LM_LE/#support


----------



## amd-pcmarlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gundersanne*
> 
> I'm getting an Asus m5a99x evo r2.0, planning to oc an fx 8350 to 4.7-4.8 ghz with a phanteks 14pe,
> I'm wondering if the vrm solution on the asus is sufficient to handle that, as it is only 6+2 phases, will it stress the vrm too much for 24/7?


I currently have the 8320 oc'ed at 4.7 on the same board with a thermalright sb-e extreme and it handles it, id hit higher if it wasnt for the temps in prime


----------



## Gundersanne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amd-pcmarlow*
> 
> I currently have the 8320 oc'ed at 4.7 on the same board with a thermalright sb-e extreme and it handles it, id hit higher if it wasnt for the temps in prime


Neat! I'm aiming for something like that too, also i had a hard time deciding between the sb-e extreme & the phanteks, went with phanteks because of the color schemes and the fans on the thermalright can go to 2500 rpm, which is really loud, it's a con & a pro that last thing.


----------



## blake1243

I ordered the Biostar TA970 and i now regret not getting a better motherboard. But according to the chart it should work fine and it has a TDP of 140w. My problem is that some newegg reviews are saying that the TA970 has throttling problems with the FX 8350 but others are saying they even got the OC a bit (4.2ghz on 8320).

Does anybody have any experience or know anything about this board? How accurate is the chart? Someone on PCPartPicker has the same motherboard with the FX 8320 and has had no problems with it. I already have the board sitting here, and i just ordered the FX 8320.


----------



## Zig-Zag

nvm


----------



## robert c james

MSI FM2-A85XA-G43
4+1 Digital VRM
heatsinked Yes
2+1 phase heatsinked {guess it's for Vid }
100watt cup support yes


----------



## amd-pcmarlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gundersanne*
> 
> Neat! I'm aiming for something like that too, also i had a hard time deciding between the sb-e extreme & the phanteks, went with phanteks because of the color schemes and the fans on the thermalright can go to 2500 rpm, which is really loud, it's a con & a pro that last thing.


Yeah the sb-e are loud but i game with headphones on so i dont hear it haha but even without the headphones i dont mind em running at 100% as i have an awesome oc and spent less than the price of a h100i on my cooler lmao


----------



## LostKauz

what does "OC with Cooling" mean? my brother has a 970a-D3 r1.4 which has the vrm heatsink and we are having issues. hes on water as well. Trying to overclock a FX-8120 even 1 ghz is unstable and his temps are amazing even at high voltage.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







basically our issue is when running prime we see throttling on the cpu after it runs for a little bit.


----------



## Cyrious

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LostKauz*
> 
> what does "OC with Cooling" mean? my brother has a 970a-D3 r1.4 which has the vrm heatsink and we are having issues. hes on water as well. Trying to overclock a FX-8120 even 1 ghz is unstable and his temps are amazing even at high voltage.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> basically our issue is when running prime we see throttling on the cpu after it runs for a little bit.


By that it means that the VRMs must be actively cooled with a spare fan instead of running passively. Its the same thing with my current AMD rig. It'll overclock pretty well, but the VRMs must be kept cool with an active fan blowing on them.

The best way for you to do it is to get a fairly small PWM fan and run it off the CPU fan header, with the fan itself set to blow over the VRM heatsink. Yes, it'll look ugly, but it will get the job done quite effectively. The Antec Spotcool if you can find one is also an effective solution.


----------



## ronnin426850

You can add MSI FM2-A85XA-G43 as known for problems


----------



## cdoublejj

what is the phase count on this board, http://www.foxconnchannel.com/ProductDetail.aspx?T=motherboard&U=en-us0000371


----------



## sooyong94

Anyone could recommend me a budget (trying to keep costs down) and good board for FX-6300?


----------



## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sooyong94*
> 
> Anyone could recommend me a budget (trying to keep costs down) and good board for FX-6300?


If you do not intend to upgrade to 8 core this is cheapest fx6300 board. You can oc on it toogigabyte 78lmt the gigbyte is a great budget board.

The asus m5a99x is a great board if you wanna spend a little more http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0091RA8U0/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1393941739&sr=8-1

I have owned both of those. The gigabyte can get you 4.5ghz if you add a fan to the vrms. The asus can max out your chip. Mine was at 5ghz.


----------



## sooyong94

OK. If I want to upgrade to a Vishera CPU would the ASRock 990FX Killer suffice?


----------



## xxpenguinxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> what is the phase count on this board, http://www.foxconnchannel.com/ProductDetail.aspx?T=motherboard&U=en-us0000371


It looks like it's a 4+1 setup. It uses the older transistor design and from what I can see it only uses 2 per channel, unless the extra two are also used in it. I wouldn't overclock without putting a decent heatsink on the transistors.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sooyong94*
> 
> Anyone could recommend me a budget (trying to keep costs down) and good board for FX-6300?


If you only need 1 PCIe slot this is a decent board, GIGABYTE GA-78LMT-USB3. I have the previous version with the blue PCB and it's been running for the past year 24/7 running a few minecraft servers plus functioning as a network backup. What I don't like about it is I cannot manually set the CPU voltage lower than default, which is annoying since my phenom II 965 is detected at 1.425V yet it can run at 1.3V on other motherboards. Also the PCIe slot layout blocks the second slot if you have a 2 slot card.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128565


----------



## felix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> what is the phase count on this board, http://www.foxconnchannel.com/ProductDetail.aspx?T=motherboard&U=en-us0000371


I believe it's 4+1


----------



## cdoublejj

the M3A78-EM is better mobo than the gigabyte ga-ma785gm-us2h isn't it?


----------



## The Andoxico

You don't have the ASRock 990FX Extreme9 listed...


----------



## tuklap

Hi,

I hope you add up the fm2+ sockets ^_^


----------



## Buris

My VRM just exploded into toxic fiery ash. Add it to the list. (yes it was on fire and loud pop could be heard.









970A-G46 (MS-7693)


----------



## MishelLngelo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buris*
> 
> My VRM just exploded into toxic fiery ash. Add it to the list. (yes it was on fire and loud pop could be heard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 970A-G46 (MS-7693)


Why am I not surprised ? You stuck 8350 in that MSI MB ? and probably tried to OC it ?


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buris*
> 
> My VRM just exploded into toxic fiery ash. Add it to the list. (yes it was on fire and loud pop could be heard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 970A-G46 (MS-7693)


Oh, wow! I can't believe it! Are you 100% certain? Are you sure it's MSI 970???

http://www.overclock.net/t/911584/and-here-is-why-i-absolutely-hate-msi/270#post_22273374


----------



## Buris

My MOBO's VRM just exploded and caught fire...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Undervolter*
> 
> Oh, wow! I can't believe it! Are you 100% certain? Are you sure it's MSI 970???
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/911584/and-here-is-why-i-absolutely-hate-msi/270#post_22273374


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MishelLngelo*
> 
> Why am I not surprised ? You stuck 8350 in that MSI MB ? and probably tried to OC it ?


Yeah, I didn't try to OC it, infact I had it underclocked. It was a hot day in the upstairs... But yes I was aware of the issue. Had it in a well ventilated case as well, outer fan pointed directly at VRMs, turned down the case fans to lowest settings to record some audio, and bam, VRM explosion.

will add pictures in a second.

Proof that it's a 970


the charred remains of the VRM in question


----------



## Roaches

I wonder if they also skimp the VRMs on their Intel counterpart....I've learned to avoid MSI boards on the AMD front...the same for their Intel boards...


----------



## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roaches*
> 
> I wonder if they also skimp the VRMs on their Intel counterpart....I've learned to avoid MSI boards on the AMD front...the same for their Intel boards...


I have wondered this myself however, I think all the intel boards are fine. I cannot find a single complaint about vrm on the intel side. If I am not mistaken the msi amd 990 boards are also high quality vrm.

It has made me 2nd guess using a msi board as well. I owned one of the 970- g46 and had to rma it. I only had it paired with a 6300. I sold it after it returned from rma. I am fond of msi gpu though. I just stick with asus or gigabyte for mobos.


----------



## Roaches

Yeah, their GPUs are pretty solid as far as I know through ownership of one. I'm guessing VRMs hasn't been updated to handle the latest FX chips as its been noticeable that they're aren't any new or refreshed 990FX boards as of late from major vendors...I've been on the fence for too long for a decent modern AMD motherboard to the point I've hold out too long to even consider ever using my FX-8350, which has been boxed majority of its life.


----------



## Buris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MishelLngelo*
> 
> Why am I not surprised ? You stuck 8350 in that MSI MB ? and probably tried to OC it ?


asus sabretooth R2.0


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buris*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *JWak-1*
> 
> I am shamefully aware that I am on OCN and still running at stock
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought my first SSD yesterday (Plextor M5 Pro Xtreme 256GB), so the plan is to re-install Windows on that, then push the multiplier up to 40x then run Intel Burn Test, and again at 42x before doing a longer Prime/OCCT test.
> 
> But shouldn't I be leaving Turbo on for an OC?
> 
> 
> 
> My experiences have led me to believe turbo to be a buzzword. Turbo is basically intel speedstep, so it keeps your clocks low until you need to use them and then brings them up, for people who render video for hours on end, it's redundant.
> 
> I keep my 8320 @ just over stock 8350 levels, 4.221GHz keep the coolnquiet and some other jazz off as well, unless your worried about that extra 10 cents on your power bill
Click to expand...

Things that make you go hmmmm.

Basically you built a bomb and now you are surprised that it detonated? Just plain silly.

The AMD platform MSI boards don't have current and thermal protection features that other boards have. The user has to take responsibility for keeping them at safe levels.

I've been beating up MSI boards for over 10 years now and haven't had a single overclocking related failure yet, and with over 100 MSI motherboards in service over that time period I can only think of 3 that had problems , one took stray voltage from a lightning strike, came in through the network port, still works but the nic and onboard sound are dead. One broke around the socket due to supporting a huge air cooler, the other finally got old enough the caps started leaking, but I soldered new ones on it and it's still running







.


----------



## damric

I think I'm going back to MSI boards specifically for that reason


----------



## xxpenguinxx

I think it's partially how bad turbo is implemented. My gigabyte 990X thinks it's a great idea to set Vcore to 1.45V for 3.6Ghz turbo, compared to 1.3V stock. 3.2Ghz. How is a CPU suppose to stay under 120W with that much voltage going through it? Yes MSI makes their boards to bare minimum spec, but they would be fine if turbo wasn't increasing the power draw.


----------



## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xxpenguinxx*
> 
> I think it's partially how bad turbo is implemented. My gigabyte 990X thinks it's a great idea to set Vcore to 1.45V for 3.6Ghz turbo, compared to 1.3V stock. 3.2Ghz. How is a CPU suppose to stay under 120W with that much voltage going through it? Yes MSI makes their boards to bare minimum spec, but they would be fine if turbo wasn't increasing the power draw.


A 8 core 120 watt cpu should never be paired with a 4 phase VRM without thermal protection circuits. MSI should have limited the TDP of the MSI 970-G46 to 95 watt CPUs imo.


----------



## Buris

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cssorkinman*
> 
> Things that make you go hmmmm.
> 
> Basically you built a bomb and now you are surprised that it detonated? Just plain silly.
> 
> The AMD platform MSI boards don't have current and thermal protection features that other boards have. The user has to take responsibility for keeping them at safe levels.
> 
> I've been beating up MSI boards for over 10 years now and haven't had a single overclocking related failure yet, and with over 100 MSI motherboards in service over that time period I can only think of 3 that had problems , one took stray voltage from a lightning strike, came in through the network port, still works but the nic and onboard sound are dead. One broke around the socket due to supporting a huge air cooler, the other finally got old enough the caps started leaking, but I soldered new ones on it and it's still running
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Nice catch, but I stopped OCing before summer for fear of overheating(go figure). I left everything on stock, and infact lowered the voltage where possible to get under 30c at all times... It still blew up.









My theory is that my R9 290, producing 90c temps, increased the overall temperature of the system.. Also harming it could have been my watercooling, which increases VRM temperatures as well.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buris*
> 
> My theory is that my R9 290, producing 90c temps, increased the overall temperature of the system.. Also harming it could have been my watercooling, which increases VRM temperatures as well.


It's plausible! Next to the "don't run Prime95 at this board", like this:

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=69178

MSI could inclulde new labels on her products: "Don't run R9 290 and/or watercooling".









Thinking about it, they could start shipping with a fan on their VRM heatsinks. But that would then cost too much, wouldn't it? And i don't know if a fan would really look like "Military Class", would it? It would make the board lose its "tough" look. Fans are so girly...


----------



## miklkit

Didn't MSI quit producing those 970 boards years ago? Why anyone would take a board designed before the 8xxx cpus came out and try to OC an 8xxx on it is beyond me. Especially when you then complain about it like it'd not your fault!

My GD80 is supporting a 9590 @ 5ghz and my laser thermometer has never seen the VRMs go past 46C when stress testing and there are no fans on the mobo.


----------



## LordOfTots

Didn't realize such a database here existed, this is helpful


----------



## miklkit

Indeed a little knowledge goes a long way. That chart made me aware of the g46 problems before I bought the GD80 and researched it.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> Didn't MSI quit producing those 970 boards years ago? Why anyone would take a board designed before the 8xxx cpus came out and try to OC an 8xxx on it is beyond me. Especially when you then complain about it like it'd not your fault!


No, MSI, like all companies, doesn't produce a 4 year ahead stock, so that she can remain with a ton of unsold motherboards if the model doesn't sell well. The production continues up until there is request and this is why newer boards ship with newer BIOS, while the first production models ship with early BIOS.

This guy here for example, has a board manufactured in December 2012

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/331787-30-970a-compatibility-fx6300

Moreover, a buyer, isn't supposed to know when a board was manufactured beforehand. When such board is in commerce, the best a customer can do, is visit the website of the manufacturer and see if the CPU he wants, is in the supported list. Guess what, FX83xx, are in the support list.

In addition, "black socket" AMD motherboards, came out, specifically with the higher power demands of the Bulldozer in mind and Piledriver wasn't any worse than Bulldozer, the contrary.

Last, Buris, wasn't even OCing if you pay attention. He was UNDERvolting, at stock speed when the unhappy incident occured.

You were wise to get the GD80.


----------



## MishelLngelo

Don't forget one thing guys, VRM feeds more than just CPU, PCIex takes up to 75W per bus, than there's NB, SB, memory and whatever else.It keeps on adding up. My Deneb takes over 140W OCed to 4.2GHz and 1.52V, MB is rated 125W with bare VRM chips so I added heat sink that reaches in air stream between pull fan on the CPU cooler and rear case vent on it and now stays much cooler, without it it was not able to do this job. Yeah I know, I could have got an UD5 or UD7 MB but this is my lot for now.


----------



## Blackspots

Ok, I see that my brother's MSI board, the MSI 760GM-P23 (FX) is in this list. He's currently running an AMD Athlon II X2 250 3.0GHz - Regor 65W in it.
Also, my Mom's GA-MA785GM-UD2H/US2H is also on that list (She has a AMD Athlon 64 X2 5400+ 2.8GHz Black Edition - Brisbane 65W). Both of them known for problems

As a result, I've decided to switch them both to Intel based boards, the Asus Gryphon Z97 for the brother, and Asus H97I-Plus for mom.


----------



## xxpenguinxx

Do you mean you are swapping the motherboard, CPU, and RAM?

Most of those motherboards that are known for problem only have issues running high wattage CPUs like the Phenom II x4 and x6 that use over 95W. I find it a little weird that you would completely switch from AMD to Intel just because of 2 motherboards.


----------



## felix

penguin is right, blackspots....

the motherboards on the list are still functional and capable of running normally a system, if cpu's are inside the wattage envelope of it's VRM's.
You don't need to change whole system because of the motherboard being in the list...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MishelLngelo*
> 
> Don't forget one thing guys, VRM feeds more than just CPU, PCIex takes up to 75W per bus, than there's NB, SB, memory and whatever else.It keeps on adding up. My Deneb takes over 140W OCed to 4.2GHz and 1.52V, MB is rated 125W with bare VRM chips so I added heat sink that reaches in air stream between pull fan on the CPU cooler and rear case vent on it and now stays much cooler, without it it was not able to do this job. Yeah I know, I could have got an UD5 or UD7 MB but this is my lot for now.


I believe that the first part of your post is a bit wrong. VRM's in this thread are for feeding CPU and CPU-NB only. Power feeding other subsystems is done by other power regulators onboard.

You can locate them by yourself , looking at each area of interest, e.g. near memory slots, near pci-e slots, near SB etc...


----------



## Blackspots

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xxpenguinxx*
> 
> Do you mean you are swapping the motherboard, CPU, and RAM?
> 
> Most of those motherboards that are known for problem only have issues running high wattage CPUs like the Phenom II x4 and x6 that use over 95W. I find it a little weird that you would completely switch from AMD to Intel just because of 2 motherboards.


It's a minor reason, (my mom's computer is 5 years old, brother's computer has new and old stuff, like a 7 year old Enermax PSU), but mostly so that they're on similar hardware. Easier to maintain with drivers since the Z97I-Pro, Z97 Gryphon and VII Gene all use the same drivers.

And aside from that, big reason I switched to Intel after 13 years of AMD is that AMD has stagnated, they have nothing that can directly compete with Intel. AMD has a confusing product line compared to Intel, too many active sockets versions and no clear delineation of what's entry level, mainstream, enthusiast and server.


----------



## ffejrxx

is there a fm2+ vrm list?

or can they be added to the fm2s?


----------



## imreloadin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ffejrxx*
> 
> is there a fm2+ vrm list?
> 
> or can they be added to the fm2s?


This lol

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk


----------



## The Stilt

Info for some of the VRMs on A88X motherboards:

*ASRock*

ASRock FM2A88X Extreme4+

4+2 phase
Richtek RT8894A
Analog
Nichicon LF-series 7mOhm 820µF - 4100/2460µF Bulk
NXP LFPAK PSMN9R1 (57A, 7.8mOhm), PSMN5R8 (90A, 4.4mOhm)

ASRock FM2A88XM Extreme4+

4+2 phase
Richtek RT8894A
Analog
Nichicon CM-series 7mOhm 820µF - 4100/2460µF Bulk
NXP LFPAK PSMN9R1 (57A, 7.8mOhm), PSMN5R8 (90A, 4.4mOhm)

ASRock Fatal1ty A88X Killer

4+2 phase
Richtek RT8894A
Analog
Nichicon LF-series 7mOhm 820µF (custom color) - 4100/2460µF Bulk
NXP LFPAK PSMN9R1 (57A, 7.8mOhm), PSMN5R8 (90A, 4.4mOhm)

ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+

4+2 phase (CPU phases doubled, IR3598)
IRF 3565A
Digital
Nichicon LF-series 7mOhm 820µF (custom color) - 4100/2460µF Bulk
APEK PMPAK AP4034GMT (44.3A, 8mOhm), AP92U03GMT (90A, 4mOhm)

*ASUS*

ASUS A88XM-A

3+2 phase
IR3565
Digital
APAQ 820µF - 4920/1640µF (up to 5740/1900µF effective) Bulk

ASUS A88XM-E

3+2 phase
IR3565
Digital
FPCAP 5K 820µF - 4920/1640µF (up to 5740/1900µF effective) Bulk

ASUS A88XM-PLUS

4+2 phase
IR3565
Digital
APAQ 820µF - 4920/2460µF (up to 5740/2870µF effective) Bulk

ASUS A88X-PLUS

4+2 phase
IR3565
Digital
APAQ 820µF - 4920/2460µF (up to 5740/2870µF effective) Bulk

ASUS A88X-PRO <<== The Stilt approved!









6+2 phase
IR3567A
Digital
FPCAP 5K 820µF - 6560/2460µF (up to 10900/4100µF effective) Bulk
Trio SuperAlloy Inductors

*GIGABYTE*

Gigabyte F2A88XM-DS2

3+2 phase
ISL6377
Analog
Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 3360/1120µF Bulk

Gigabyte F2A88X-HD3

4+2 phase
ISL6377
Analog
Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 3360/1120µF Bulk

Gigabyte F2A88XM-HD3

3+2 phase
ISL6377
Analog
Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 3360/1120µF Bulk

Gigabyte F2A88X-D3H

4+2 phase
ISL6377
Analog
Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 3360/1120µF Bulk
OnSemi NTMFS4C06N (69A, 6mOhm), NVTFS4C10N (47A, 7.4mOhm)

Gigabyte F2A88XM-DH3

4+2 phase
ISL6377
Analog
Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 3360/1120µF Bulk

Gigabyte F2A88X-UP4 <<== The Stilt approved!









6+2 phase
IRF 3657A
Digital
Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 5600/2240µF Bulk
IR3550M PowIRStage 60A

Gigabyte F2A88XN-WIFI <<== The Stilt approved!









4+2 phase
IRF 3657B
Digital
UCC or APAQ 560µF - 3360/1120µF Bulk
IR3550M PowIRStage 60A

Gigabyte G1.Sniper A88X

4+2 phase
ISL6377
Analog
Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 5600/2240µF Bulk
Vishay SiRA12DP PowerPak (25A, 4.4mOhm), Vishay SiR428DP (30A, 6.1mOhm) <<== Weak









*MSI*

MSI A88XM Gaming

4+2 phase
ISL6377
Analog
UCC(?) 560µF - 4860/3400µF Bulk

MSI A88X-G41

4+2 phase
ISL6x77x
Analog
UCC 820µF - 6560/1640µF Bulk

MSI A88X-G43

4+2 phase
IR3567A
Digital
UCC 820µF - 6560/2460µF (up to 7544/2830µF effective) Bulk

MSI A88X-G45 Gaming

4+2 phase
ISL6377
Analog
UCC(?) 560µF - 4860/3400µF Bulk

MSI A88XI AC

3+2 phase
ISL62773
Analog
UCC(?] xxxµF - Unknown amount of Bulk


----------



## Stufi

I have an Asus M5A99X EVO R2.0 and FX 8350. Now, my CPU is overclocked to 4.5ghz and it goes past the wattage limit on the board, which is 140W. On stock this CPU takes 125W and with my overclock it takes 157W. It says "recommended" on the list in the first page, so does this mean I can overclock further without fyring my motherboard? Sadly, this board doesnt report VRM temps, but the CPU core and socket temps are perfectly under control and even under prime95 load they dont go over 55C (core) and 64 (socket) so i still have some room to overclock more when it comes to CPU temps.


----------



## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stufi*
> 
> I have an Asus M5A99X EVO R2.0 and FX 8350. Now, my CPU is overclocked to 4.5ghz and it goes past the wattage limit on the board, which is 140W. On stock this CPU takes 125W and with my overclock it takes 157W. It says "recommended" on the list in the first page, so does this mean I can overclock further without fyring my motherboard? Sadly, this board doesnt report VRM temps, but the CPU core and socket temps are perfectly under control and even under prime95 load they dont go over 55C (core) and 64 (socket) so i still have some room to overclock more when it comes to CPU temps.


just monitor temps. That board can run a 9590. You will want to add a fan to vrm area (just like all heavily overclocked fx mobos). Other than that the board shouldnt hold you back much. I have seen 4.8ghz on that board using your cpu. The 6-2 phase vrm are very high quality.


----------



## Stufi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wirerat*
> 
> just monitor temps. That board can run a 9590. You will want to add a fan to vrm area (just like all heavily overclocked fx mobos). Other than that the board shouldnt hold you back much. I have seen 4.8ghz on that board using your cpu. The 6-2 phase vrm are very high quality.


I added a fan behind the motherboard on the socket. Is that enough? Because I have the NH-D15 cooler and it takes up a lot of space so it would be pretty hard to get fans there. I hope the socket cooler is enough :/


----------



## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stufi*
> 
> I added a fan behind the motherboard on the socket. Is that enough? Because I have the NH-D15 cooler and it takes up a lot of space so it would be pretty hard to get fans there. I hope the socket cooler is enough :/


I would get a couple 40mm fans a use double sided tape and stick them right to the vrm heatsink if they fit. But the socket fan will help for sure.


----------



## Stufi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wirerat*
> 
> I would get a couple 40mm fans a use double sided tape and stick them right to the vrm heatsink if they fit. But the socket fan will help for sure.


Alright, thanks. I think i'll buy two little fans and see if they fit. If they don't fit would it be too risky to aim for 4.8ghz?


----------



## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stufi*
> 
> Alright, thanks. I think i'll buy two little fans and see if they fit. If they don't fit would it be too risky to aim for 4.8ghz?


go for it. I used that same board to get my fx6300 to 5.1ghz. The board is solid even with 8core. You just have more heat to control.

The vrm fan might not be needed if the noctua cooler is spilling some air on the vrm. Most ppl adding the vrm fans are watercooling or aio.


----------



## Pionir

Please Help.

I have a Gigabyte motherboard, G1.Sniper A88X.

The motherboard is defective and under warranty, but out of stock and probably will have to choose another that is currently available, or may be ordered at extra cost.

I would like more information about VRM for;

- ASUS A88X-GAMER
- ASUS CROSSBLADE RANGER

10X


----------



## jsc1973

Don't know about the A88X-Gamer, but the Crossblade Ranger is an 8+2 board with all sorts of enthusiast features. It's expensive, but should OC as well or better than any other FM2+ board.


----------



## Pionir

Thank you.

From what I found so far many have a problem with RAM Clocking / Overclocking Issues.

From Customer Reviews of the ASUS A88X-PRO (6+2 phase), newegg :
Quote:


> Cons: Memory instability
> Crashes frequently
> I'm using Viper 3 1600 Mhz 8GB ram with a seasonic X1050 PSU


I have a 1600 MHz RAM, so I'm a little worried.

This motherboard (GA-A88X-G1) pushed to 2400MHz, but with very high latencies, CL 14 -15.


----------



## SavageBrat

Just a question, (learning here) but wouldn't the tdp on say the AMD3+ like the UD7,and the Asus boards the can run the 9 series cpus be at 220?


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsc1973*
> 
> Don't know about the A88X-Gamer, but the Crossblade Ranger is an 8+2 board with all sorts of enthusiast features. It's expensive, but should OC as well or better than any other FM2+ board.


The Crossblade Ranger is 6+2 phase, just like the A88X PRO for example.
The main difference between the two in VRM wise are:

- Uprated inductors (Crossblade Ranger)
- More modern TI NexFet Power Block modules (Crossblade Ranger) vs. separate high & low fets on A88X PRO

Both of them are definitely recommended.
Go for the Crossblade if you can afford, it is the best FM2+ board ever made.


----------



## jsc1973

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> The Crossblade Ranger is 6+2 phase, just like the A88X PRO for example.
> The main difference between the two in VRM wise are:
> 
> - Uprated inductors (Crossblade Ranger)
> - More modern TI NexFet Power Block modules (Crossblade Ranger) vs. separate high & low fets on A88X PRO
> 
> Both of them are definitely recommended.
> Go for the Crossblade if you can afford, it is the best FM2+ board ever made.


I thought I saw a press release on it where it was billed as an 8+2, but now that I take a close look at it, you're right. It's a 6+2.

Should be more than good enough for anything that you'd want to run on it and overclock the tar out of anyway. I have an A88X-PRO, and it's an impressive FM2+ board in its own right. I bought it by accident (long story) before the Ranger was announced, and was so impressed by it that I decided to keep it and use it myself.


----------



## chrisjames61

Another new sharp looking ASUS FM2+ board. ASUS A88X-Gamer. I want to buy something new just for fun. I am waffling between getting a Sabertooth R2 for my 8320. Or getting a Crossblade Ranger for my A10-6800K. I may just end up with both.


----------



## cdoublejj

No FM2+?

How man VRMs/Phases does this board have?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128663


----------



## ronnin426850

From your link:
Quote:


> IR Digital 4+2 phase APU power design


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronnin426850*
> 
> From your link:


do we know how well it can handle 100watt CPUs?


----------



## cdoublejj

does this board have decent VRMs?

http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/FM2A88X-ITX+/


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> does this board have decent VRMs?
> 
> http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/FM2A88X-ITX+/


It's 4+2 phase, with 3 mosfets per phase. It should have no problem for 100W CPUs, probably up to 125W. Now for overclocking, it's a different story, because it lacks heatsink on VRM and being small, who knows how quickly the VRM heats up. But for stock, it should have no problem.


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Undervolter*
> 
> It's 4+2 phase, with 3 mosfets per phase. It should have no problem for 100W CPUs, probably up to 125W. Now for overclocking, it's a different story, because it lacks heatsink on VRM and being small, who knows how quickly the VRM heats up. But for stock, it should have no problem.


could say the same about this board?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128663


----------



## cdoublejj

how many VRMs and or phases for this mobos?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132055

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157463


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> could say the same about this board?
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128663


Yes, it/s 4+2 too, but can't see how many mosfets, as they are covered by the heatsink (though i 'd be surprised if they are less than 3 per phase).
A detail.. The Gigabyte here uses Chemicon japanese capacitors for CPU power (the light blue/aqua colour) and cheaper taiwanese Apaq (the gray ones), in another part for the less important circuits. Also uses the more "traditional" chokes, while the first Asrock uses new tech chokes.

The Asrock with the golden caps that you showed me earlier, also has japanese caps and new tech chokes.
Quote:


> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132055
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157463


The ASUS is again 4+2, can't see how many mosfets, the capacitors are all cheaper taiwanese Apaq ones.

The Asrock again 4+2, with 4 mosfets per phase. The capacitors aren't japanese, but i can't see Apaq markings either, the photo is not clear. I am not sure what they are. Uses the more traditional chokes too.

Personally i 'd look in website to see which has digital PWM, then pick number mosfets and capacitor brand (japanese is better) and lastly, the chokes. Worst case, you can put a small fan to blow to VRM or undervolt, if you get a non heatsinked one. But i think they can all handle 100W. It's funny, because there isn't one that is consistently better. The non heatsinked ones, are definitely worse in case you want to overclock. Also, the Asrocks have generally a tendency to be thinner (and thus hotter), in their PCB. I 'd probably pick between ASUS and Gigabyte. From Asrock, it's hard, because the best caps and chokes are in the one with the golden caps, but it has less mosfets. I 'd pick whichever has digital PWM if i wanted ASrock. Unfortunately, can't tell from the photos, you 'd need to see if website says anything.


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Undervolter*
> 
> Yes, it/s 4+2 too, but can't see how many mosfets, as they are covered by the heatsink (though i 'd be surprised if they are less than 3 per phase).
> A detail.. The Gigabyte here uses Chemicon japanese capacitors for CPU power (the light blue/aqua colour) and cheaper taiwanese Apaq (the gray ones), in another part for the less important circuits. Also uses the more "traditional" chokes, while the first Asrock uses new tech chokes.
> 
> The Asrock with the golden caps that you showed me earlier, also has japanese caps and new tech chokes.
> The ASUS is again 4+2, can't see how many mosfets, the capacitors are all cheaper taiwanese Apaq ones.
> 
> The Asrock again 4+2, with 4 mosfets per phase. The capacitors aren't japanese, but i can't see Apaq markings either, the photo is not clear. I am not sure what they are. Uses the more traditional chokes too.
> 
> Personally i 'd look in website to see which has digital PWM, then pick number mosfets and capacitor brand (japanese is better) and lastly, the chokes. Worst case, you can put a small fan to blow to VRM or undervolt, if you get a non heatsinked one. But i think they can all handle 100W. It's funny, because there isn't one that is consistently better. The non heatsinked ones, are definitely worse in case you want to overclock. Also, the Asrocks have generally a tendency to be thinner (and thus hotter), in their PCB. I 'd probably pick between ASUS and Gigabyte. From Asrock, it's hard, because the best caps and chokes are in the one with the golden caps, but it has less mosfets. I 'd pick whichever has digital PWM if i wanted ASrock. Unfortunately, can't tell from the photos, you 'd need to see if website says anything.


Thanks though looking at some of the egg scores the asrock isn't doing too bad has all the hook up AND takes a 4+4 on the CPU side. I haven't decided just yet.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> Thanks though looking at some of the egg scores the asrock isn't doing too bad has all the hook up AND takes a 4+4 on the CPU side. I haven't decided just yet.


Yeah, at stock none should have any issues. Read customer reviews to avoid one with known technical problems, i 'd say. The Gigabyte i don't like having the cables running like that over the PCB. The Asrocks won't have problem stock, if anything, you will have a bit higher socket temp, because of the thinner PCB (it's a classical trait of the Asrock). But other than that, if you prefer features in an Asrock, it won't have trouble at stock.


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Undervolter*
> 
> Yeah, at stock none should have any issues. Read customer reviews to avoid one with known technical problems, i 'd say. The Gigabyte i don't like having the cables running like that over the PCB. The Asrocks won't have problem stock, if anything, you will have a bit higher socket temp, because of the thinner PCB (it's a classical trait of the Asrock). But other than that, if you prefer features in an Asrock, it won't have trouble at stock.


i was wanting something in 75 range but, 90 could work with 3 internal usb 2 and VGA and decent VRMS. The 6600K is in hand. it would be nice to OC it in the future.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> i was wanting something in 75 range but, 90 could work with 3 internal usb 2 and VGA and decent VRMS. The 6600K is in hand. it would be nice to OC it in the future.


I 've no idea of how the APUs draw overclocked (the voltage curve) and no idea how much these small boards heat. But, if you pan to OC, you 're better off either with a heatsinked one or with the Asrock that has 4 mosfets per phase. The more mosfets, the merrier, to avoid premature throttling. I had an Asrock 790 4+1 phase board with 2 mosfets per phase and no heatsink and it was throttling with a 1090T at stock voltage. I 've been buying Asrocks since s939 (a lot of them) and their main problem when it comes to overclocking (apart phase), is that the thin PCB doesn't help with heat. And the smaller the form factor, the easier for one hot area to heat the rest of the motherboard too. You end up with higher socket temp sooner than a thicker board. Same probably goes with mosfets. Other than that, they 're just fine. I have a s939 board still going strong, same for 790g mATX AM2+ boards and in my main PC i am now in the 3rd year i think with an 970 extreme3. So, if you like the Asrock, by all means. I 'd just pick the one with more mosfets and if you want to overclock, you can add a small fan to blow there to avoid premature throttling. Good news, is that 95% of the time, Asrock puts VRM protection even on small boards, so your board will likely throttle instead of bursting into flames.

And while i am not much of a gamer, all my boards take a lot of beating in the VRM area, due to massive sessions of video encoding. So, they are tough boards, if you don't abuse them, despite the thin PCB.


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Undervolter*
> 
> I 've no idea of how the APUs draw overclocked (the voltage curve) and no idea how much these small boards heat. But, if you pan to OC, you 're better off either with a heatsinked one or with the Asrock that has 4 mosfets per phase. The more mosfets, the merrier, to avoid premature throttling. I had an Asrock 790 4+1 phase board with 2 mosfets per phase and no heatsink and it was throttling with a 1090T at stock voltage. I 've been buying Asrocks since s939 (a lot of them) and their main problem when it comes to overclocking (apart phase), is that the thin PCB doesn't help with heat. And the smaller the form factor, the easier for one hot area to heat the rest of the motherboard too. You end up with higher socket temp sooner than a thicker board. Same probably goes with mosfets. Other than that, they 're just fine. I have a s939 board still going strong, same for 790g mATX AM2+ boards and in my main PC i am now in the 3rd year i think with an 970 extreme3. So, if you like the Asrock, by all means. I 'd just pick the one with more mosfets and if you want to overclock, you can add a small fan to blow there to avoid premature throttling. Good news, is that 95% of the time, Asrock puts VRM protection even on small boards, so your board will likely throttle instead of bursting into flames.
> 
> And while i am not much of a gamer, all my boards take a lot of beating in the VRM area, due to massive sessions of video encoding. So, they are tough boards, if you don't abuse them, despite the thin PCB.


Well i can't think of any reason i can't just add heat sinks to the asrock boards VRMs.


----------



## maddangerous

MSI A88XM-GAMING

What do you all think this board for overclocking? I can take better pics of it, i have it installed in my machine already


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maddangerous*
> 
> MSI A88XM-GAMING
> 
> What do you all think this board for overclocking? I can take better pics of it, i have it installed in my machine already


It's also 4+2 phase, can't see how many mosfets there are. As for overclocking, if you really like it, try not to push to the limit. Give it some slack.

The 970 Gaming here, eventually blew up:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1501416/msi-970-gaming-anyone

The problem are the Nikos mosfets. The 970 Gaming, despite an unusually high number of said mosfets, didn't manage to avoid death.

I am biased against MSI for their VRM record in AM3+. If you really like it, go on. Chances are nothing will happen. But i 'd never buy it for myself if i wanted to OC, just because the chance that something will happen, is higher than with other brands.


----------



## maddangerous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Undervolter*
> 
> It's also 4+2 phase, can't see how many mosfets there are. As for overclocking, if you really like it, try not to push to the limit. Give it some slack.
> 
> The 970 Gaming here, eventually blew up:
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1501416/msi-970-gaming-anyone
> 
> The problem are the Nikos mosfets. The 970 Gaming, despite an unusually high number of said mosfets, didn't manage to avoid death.
> 
> I am biased against MSI for their VRM record in AM3+. If you really like it, go on. Chances are nothing will happen. But i 'd never buy it for myself if i wanted to OC, just because the chance that something will happen, is higher than with other brands.


I'm only looking to hit maybe 4.5ghz. Also, I was seeing 6+2 anywhere else I looked reviews and such) just to throw that out there. How can i find out more info?


----------



## Imprezzion

The Asrock 970 Extreme4. What kind of OC can it handle with a FX6300? It seems decent enough actually with heatsinks and a recommended status in the OP's sheet.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imprezzion*
> 
> The Asrock 970 Extreme4. What kind of OC can it handle with a FX6300? It seems decent enough actually with heatsinks and a recommended status in the OP's sheet.


It depends on how much voltage your 6300 likes to "drink", but this isn't an overclocker's board.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/970%20Extreme4/?cat=CPU

Asterisk: * For cooling the CPU and its surrounding components, please install a CPU cooler with a top-down blowing design.

On Asrock 970 extreme3, my power hungry 6300 can't go above 4.3Ghz. The socket temperatures go through the roof and even if you keep pumping volts, it can't run stable. With a less power hungry chip, you may go to 4.4, 4.5 if you are very lucky. But the socket temp will be above 60C, for sure.

If you want to overclock, avoid the Asrock 970. They 're only comfortable up to 4Ghz. Beyond that, they run really hot and thus put in jeopardy their longevity.


----------



## Imprezzion

Luckily it's not my own setup







We had some issues with the PSU being too weak for the HD7950 we added so when upgrading the PSU he wanted to know if he could overclock the CPU as well.


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Undervolter*
> 
> It's also 4+2 phase, can't see how many mosfets there are. As for overclocking, if you really like it, try not to push to the limit. Give it some slack.
> 
> The 970 Gaming here, eventually blew up:
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1501416/msi-970-gaming-anyone
> 
> The problem are the Nikos mosfets. The 970 Gaming, despite an unusually high number of said mosfets, didn't manage to avoid death.
> 
> I am biased against MSI for their VRM record in AM3+. If you really like it, go on. Chances are nothing will happen. But i 'd never buy it for myself if i wanted to OC, just because the chance that something will happen, is higher than with other brands.


HA!!! MSI boards were blowing up long before socket AM3+! Heck! mine was socket 775 and and blew 2 or 3 in row gave up sold the board i got back from rma.


----------



## Djmatrix32

Bought a MSI 990FXA-GD80v2 was that a bad choice? or Will I have nightmares for days?


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Djmatrix32*
> 
> Bought a MSI 990FXA-GD80v2 was that a bad choice? or Will I have nightmares for days?


This seems to be high end model, so probably you will be good. We haven't seen any mishaps on that model here as far as i remember.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> HA!!! MSI boards were blowing up long before socket AM3+! Heck! mine was socket 775 and and blew 2 or 3 in row gave up sold the board i got back from rma.


You don't have to convince me. I have joined the local "MSI hate club". The only motherboard (from a total of over 15) that has ever just died on me for no apparent reason, was an MSI socket A. Died just after 2 years. I 've had some deaths with cheap Asrocks too, but there was always a reasonable cause of death that was caused by accident (me doing something i shouldn't have). And consider that i was always undervolting.


----------



## miklkit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Djmatrix32*
> 
> Bought a MSI 990FXA-GD80v2 was that a bad choice? or Will I have nightmares for days?


The MSI GD80 is the coolest running motherboard you can buy. It is also very easy to set up. It won't give you the ultimate overclock but it will deliver great everyday performance, especially with air cooling.

The only real problem is with MSI themselves. The locked down the bios so you can't give it the volts it needs to really OC unless you have the old versions of their software, like I do.


----------



## Undervolter

Interestingly, i found this:

RMA rates:
Quote:


> Motherboards:
> Article posted on May 10th 2013:
> 
> Average Failure rates:
> 
> - Gigabyte 1,19% (vs 1,77% before)
> - ASUS 1,79% (vs 2,34% before)
> - ASRock 2,09% (vs 1,67% before)
> - MSI 3,05% (vs 2,24% before)
> 
> Compared to the previous period, Gigabyte and Asus do better, Asrock and MSI less. Gigabyte is in an obvious lead, while MSI's number surpasses 3%, which is worrying to say the least. If we look more specifically at LGA 1155 Z77 Express motherboards, here is the ranking we get:
> - Gigabyte 1,70%
> - ASUS 1,87%
> - ASRock 1,91%
> - MSI 3,57%
> 
> A high percentage of the high return rate for MSI motherboards is then related to their Z77 models. Of all models here are the 5 most returned ones:
> 
> - 5,88% ASUS Rampage IV Extreme
> - 5,59% ASRock H77 Pro4/MVP
> - 4,94% MSI Z77A-G45
> - 4,10% ASRock 960GM/U3S3
> - 4,09% ASUS P8Z68-V Pro/Gen3
> 
> Here then, is the reason for the high overall failure rate of MSI boards, the Z77A-G45, one of their models. Without this one, MSI's average plummets to 2.03% on all Z77 boards and 2.19% for the average of all their boards.
> Thankfully this seems resolved because the next period (sales between October 2012 and April 2013), the failure rate of the Z77A-G45 drops down to 1.45%. (Read next article posted right below for more info)
> 
> Article posted on October 30th, 2013:
> 
> Average Failure rates:
> 
> - Gigabyte 1,43% (vs 1,19% year before)
> - MSI 1,83% (vs 3,05% year before)
> - ASUS 1,86% (vs 1,79% year before)
> - ASRock 2,09% (vs 2,09% year before)
> 
> MSI considerably improved it's rate compared to the previous year, which had a rate of 2.03%. if you were to exclude one of their main model (the Z77A-G45) which had a failure rate of 4.94%. The manufacturer returns from fourth place to 2nd place, and Gigabyte still leads the pack despite a higher failure rate this year.
> 
> If we look more explicitly at the failure rates for LGA 1155 Z77 express motherboards, here is the result:
> 
> - MSI 1,88%
> - ASUS 2,01%
> - Gigabyte 2,44%
> - ASRock 3,51%
> 
> Asrock obtains the worst score with 3.51%. It's failure rate however,is caused mostly by their Z77 boards because without them, Asrock would get a 2% failure rat.
> 
> All models combined, here are the 4 models with higher than 5% return rates :
> - 7,05% ASRock 970 Extreme3
> - 6,19% MSI X79A-GD45
> - 6,08% ASRock 990FX Extreme3
> - 6,06% ASRock 970 Pro3
> 
> We find 3 AM3+ Asrock motherboards who sandwich an LGA 2011 motherboard from MSI.
> 
> http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/108284-huge-list-of-failure-rates-on-pc-components-french-but-i-translated-nearly-everything/


^ I guess it answers why Asrock removed compatibility of 83xx CPUs for all 4+1 models...


----------



## Djmatrix32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> The MSI GD80 is the coolest running motherboard you can buy. It is also very easy to set up. It won't give you the ultimate overclock but it will deliver great everyday performance, especially with air cooling.
> 
> The only real problem is with MSI themselves. The locked down the bios so you can't give it the volts it needs to really OC unless you have the old versions of their software, like I do.


Not really looking to overclock all that much. I had to sell my Sabertooth 990fx build when I got super sick to help pay the bills and I picked up my used and abused rig from a friend but 1st Gen APUs not allowing me to use my GTX 750 100%. I had a huge Amazon gift card(around $50) I picked up the GD80 and a Fx-8320 last night.


----------



## miklkit

Ouch! It sucks to get sick in America.

With decent cooling and how you did in the silicon lottery 4.7 ghz should be a good target for everyday use. I did poorly in the silicon lottery with my 8350 and both the GD80 and the Sabertooth top out at 4.7.

The MSI G43, G45, G46 mobos are the biggest reason for their headaches. Also, I wonder how a company's RMA policy affects those numbers.

I have heard lots of horror stories about ASUS RMAs, and know from experience that Gigabyte seems to pick and choose whom they service. MSI on the other hand are the best in my experience.
I have something in my system causing instability and emailed them asking for advice. They volunteered to RMA my GD80, so I did. It turns out not to be the motherboard but probably the Seasonic PSU. Who else has ever RMAd something because it might maybe be bad?


----------



## Djmatrix32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> Ouch! It sucks to get sick in America.
> 
> With decent cooling and how you did in the silicon lottery 4.7 ghz should be a good target for everyday use. I did poorly in the silicon lottery with my 8350 and both the GD80 and the Sabertooth top out at 4.7.
> 
> The MSI G43, G45, G46 mobos are the biggest reason for their headaches. Also, I wonder how a company's RMA policy affects those numbers.
> 
> I have heard lots of horror stories about ASUS RMAs, and know from experience that Gigabyte seems to pick and choose whom they service. MSI on the other hand are the best in my experience.
> I have something in my system causing instability and emailed them asking for advice. They volunteered to RMA my GD80, so I did. It turns out not to be the motherboard but probably the Seasonic PSU. Who else has ever RMAd something because it might maybe be bad?


I was really disappointed in my Sabertooth when I had it. The on-board audio stop working and 2 ram slots wouldn't work correctly and I was upset Asus was giving me the run around a few times about an RMA. I did get it RMA'D tho and after that sold it. I have some what high hopes for the GD80 and the 8320 I have coming. This APU and I am using(A8-3870) is really bottle-necking my GTX 750 FTW really hard I am only using 30-60% of the GPU in Mafia 2 at high settings.


----------



## miklkit

You will find it just the opposite now. My cpu loafs along at 30-40% load while the 280X is running at 100%. I need another 280X!


----------



## Djmatrix32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> You will find it just the opposite now. My cpu loafs along at 30-40% load while the 280X is running at 100%. I need another 280X!


Some reason I am okay with that nothing like buying a new video card and being stuck with a crappy CPU. I like the APu's but they are just not my thing.


----------



## Gero2013

is there a similar thread for intel mobos?


----------



## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gero2013*
> 
> is there a similar thread for intel mobos?


this chart has most
http://sinhardware.com/images/vrmlist.png

Also
http://www.overclock.net/t/1490142/z97-vrm-info/0_50


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Djmatrix32*
> 
> I was really disappointed in my Sabertooth when I had it. The on-board audio stop working and 2 ram slots wouldn't work correctly and I was upset Asus was giving me the run around a few times about an RMA. I did get it RMA'D tho and after that sold it. I have some what high hopes for the GD80 and the 8320 I have coming. This APU and I am using(A8-3870) is really bottle-necking my GTX 750 FTW really hard I am only using 30-60% of the GPU in Mafia 2 at high settings.


asus have good boards but, bad RMA service, MSI has bad boards but, good RMA service.


----------



## madmalkav

Anyone happens to know what mosfets the asrock 990fx extreme3 use? I want to figure max amp they can handle.

Also, is there any way I can monitor VRM temperatures by software?


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madmalkav*
> 
> Anyone happens to know what mosfets the asrock 990fx extreme3 use? I want to figure max amp they can handle.
> 
> Also, is there any way I can monitor VRM temperatures by software?


What chip are you going to pair up with that board? ( i have one )


----------



## madmalkav

I'm using it with a FX8350 . Bad pairing, I know, but I got both for really cheap. Also, I'm not planing on seriously voerclocking, I just want to mess around a little to learn one thing or two.


----------



## miklkit

To monitor VRM temperatures a sensor is needed. The boards that have VRM temperature sensors are the ASUS Sabertooth and the MSI GD80.

Overheating VRMs can cause throttling. Software like OCCT can show it. Or get a laser thermometer and read their temps directly.


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madmalkav*
> 
> I'm using it with a FX8350 . Bad pairing, I know, but I got both for really cheap. Also, I'm not planing on seriously voerclocking, I just want to mess around a little to learn one thing or two.


I think you will be ok at stock speeds, but I would NOT use the LLC function at all. It is very heavy handed and tends to overvolt the crap out of the cpu when enabled.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madmalkav*
> 
> I'm using it with a FX8350 . Bad pairing, I know, but I got both for really cheap. Also, I'm not planing on seriously voerclocking, I just want to mess around a little to learn one thing or two.


Asrock has put an asterisk on this CPU:

* For cooling the CPU and its surrounding components, please install a CPU cooler with a top-down blowing design.

http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/990FX%20Extreme3/?cat=CPU

I have the Asrock 970 extreme3 (also 4+1 phase) and a 8320 and i can tell you this. You 'd better undervolt at stock. At least for longevity's sake and to avoid unpleasant surprises. I have a personal distaste for temperatures over 60C, although theoretically cores can go to 70C. But, i 've seen, that the 970extreme3, is comfortable up to 4Ghz, with socket at 64C during prime and VRM at about 56C. Cores at low 50s. Mind you, all this with a good undervolt at 4Ghz (1.256v).

So you can imagine, that at stock voltage, these temps will easily go higher.


----------



## Neilthran

Hey guys, i have this abomination, i mean, cheap motherboard from Asrock, and I'm a bit curious about it's vrm area, the mosfets brand and such.
It's a 980DE3/U3S3 (760g chipset).

Asrock page: http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/980DE3U3S3/?cat=Specifications

newegg page(better pics): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157366

And last, the info written in the mosfets and capacitors in the vrm area (click to zoom):



I'm using it with a FX 6300. I'm toying with the idea of doing a light OC (around 4ghz-4.4ghz), taking into account that in the cpu support list in the asrock page they say:

_"For cooling the CPU and its surrounding components, please install a CPU cooler with a top-down blowing design."_

Well, it's doable? If i OC, i would replace the stock cooler. So, for the vrm area would 2 small coolers be enough or i do also need heatsinks? It's even a 4+1 phase vrm?

I have been using it for a bit more than a year with no problems at stock. The good thing i can say about Asrock is they still release bios updates. I had some problems with the chipset and windows recognizing the 760g igp, but they released a bios fix for it. Their last official bios (1.60) had a problem with voltages using higher ones in stock and they apparently released a beta bios that fixes the issue. I'm using the 1.50 bios because it works fine.
My voltages are using turbo:
at 1.4ghz - 0.825v
at 3.5ghz - no idea
at 3.8ghz - 1.275v (turbo full load)


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neilthran*
> 
> Hey guys, i have this abomination, i mean, cheap motherboard from Asrock, and I'm a bit curious about it's vrm area, the mosfets brand and such.
> It's a 980DE3/U3S3 (760g chipset).
> 
> Asrock page: http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/980DE3U3S3/?cat=Specifications
> 
> newegg page(better pics): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157366
> 
> And last, the info written in the mosfets and capacitors in the vrm area (click to zoom):
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using it with a FX 6300. I'm toying with the idea of doing a light OC (around 4ghz-4.4ghz), taking into account that in the cpu support list in the asrock page they say:
> 
> _"For cooling the CPU and its surrounding components, please install a CPU cooler with a top-down blowing design."_
> 
> Well, it's doable? If i OC, i would replace the stock cooler. So, for the vrm area would 2 small coolers be enough or i do also need heatsinks? It's even a 4+1 phase vrm?
> 
> I have been using it for a bit more than a year with no problems at stock. The good thing i can say about Asrock is they still release bios updates. I had some problems with the chipset and windows recognizing the 760g igp, but they released a bios fix for it. Their last official bios (1.60) had a problem with voltages using higher ones in stock and they apparently released a beta bios that fixes the issue. I'm using the 1.50 bios because it works fine.
> My voltages are using turbo:
> at 1.4ghz - 0.825v
> at 3.5ghz - no idea
> at 3.8ghz - 1.275v (turbo full load)


The capacitors are actually good quality. Japanese Nichicon (Asrock's usual brand of choice). The mosfets seem to be from APEC :

http://www.a-power.com.tw/index.aspx?lang=eng&fn=index

http://www.a-powerusa.com/docs/AP73T03GHJ-3.pdf

^ They actually make them withstand 175C, which is good and explains why some people here in the forum have put 220W TDP on unsupported 970 Asrock boards and while they throttled, the VRMs didn't go on fire. Also, they are at least honest to give I ratings at both 25C and 100C. There is a drop natuarally, but they could have simply omitted the 100C and boast better numbers with the 25C rating only. From my limited knowledge, i 'd say it's a pretty "honest" and "decent" economy-class mosfet, that tries mainly to survive and deliver results with some dignity. For the price of the motherboard, they could have gone with much worse...

I don't know much about it, probably not the best, but surely better than Nikos... It's not that bad actually, basically it's 4+1 phase, 3 mosfets per phase, pretty much the same design as the various 970 Extreme3s, Pro3, etc.

As for cooling, it all depends on airflow, how hot the mosfets will get, how much you want to overclock and how much voltage-thirsty your chip is. On my Extreme3, my very thirsty FX6300 can't go above 4.3Ghz., but really bad chip.

Up to 4Ghz, with small fans to blow on the mosfets, i don't think you will have a problem. Beyond that, it's difficult to judge.

The components Asrock uses aren't really that bad. They 're better quality than cheap MSIs for example. The problem with Asrocks, is that the phases are few and the board (the PCB itself), is THIN. This makes the board itself overheat quickly in the socket, then the socket spreads heat back towards the VRM and it's a vicious circle. If you can cool well the VRM area, it should behave more or less the same as an Extreme3.

Bang for buck, your board is actually probably the best out there. I 've bought 2 of them myself to donate them to a friend. They 're just not for overclocking. It's a board best used undervolted or not exceeding 4Ghz (which is let's say stock). Beyond that, i wouldn't bet my money on the longevity of the board and it will sooner rather than later throttle.

P.S.: No BIOS release for 8320e, 8370e from Asrock yet for the 970extreme3 R1.0, asked twice about it to customer support, got no reply back. Just for the history.

P.S.: Thanks to you, now i know what mosfets i also have on mine (probably).


----------



## Neilthran

Undervolter thanks for all the info!

At least the mosfets are not Nikos, i read horror story's about them. Well, so beyond 4ghz it depends on the clock+cpu+airflow+luck. I can accept those chances. I don't care for a good OC anyway. What bothers me most is the stock cooler that sounds like a jet engine. Since i might change the stock cooler, i might as well do a very light OC, that was the main idea.

I looked in the cpu support list of the 970 Extreme3 (R1.0) a long time ago and it had support for the 8320 and 8350 and now they don't even have that, ***. It looks as if they abandoned the board. I suppose i can consider myself lucky they still care about the 980DE3.

When i was deciding which board to buy i was between the 980DE3 and the GA-78LMT-USB3 (rev. 4.1). The Asrock seems solid so far in stock.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neilthran*
> 
> Undervolter thanks for all the info!
> 
> At least the mosfets are not Nikos, i read horror story's about them. Well, so beyond 4ghz it depends on the clock+cpu+airflow+luck. I can accept those chances. I don't care for a good OC anyway. What bothers me most is the stock cooler that sounds like a jet engine. Since i might change the stock cooler, i might as well do a very light OC, that was the main idea.
> 
> I looked in the cpu support list of the 970 Extreme3 (R1.0) a long time ago and it had support for the 8320 and 8350 and now they don't even have that, ***. It looks as if they abandoned the board. I suppose i can consider myself lucky they still care about the 980DE3.
> 
> When i was deciding which board to buy i was between the 980DE3 and the GA-78LMT-USB3 (rev. 4.1). The Asrock seems solid so far in stock.


Yes, Nikos have a history of "burnt smell" behind them, they are basically responsible for most the MSI AM3 failures and MSI keeps using them today (a love story). In fact, if you search the forum for "MSI 970 Gaming", they have it packed with really many Nikos, that ultimately failed and killed the CPU with it too. In AM3 years, Nikos was giving only rating at 25C and i doubt they test them for 175C seriously...

The stock cooler in the FX6300 is a little joke. AMD cut corners there to cut costs. As in the 83xx they tried to compensate with very high RPM fan, making it atrocious...

The Asrock 970 Extreme (as well as pro3 R1.0) had support for both 8320 and 8350. As a matter of fact, if you look my "Main" rig in my signature, i run a 8320. But undervolted. A few pages earlier in this thread, you will find in a post of mine, some statistics. The 970 extreme3 was the highest RMA model for Asrock.

EDIT: Here it is:

http://www.overclock.net/t/946407/amd-motherboards-vrm-info-database/1360#post_22956943

My hypothesis is this. This was a board selling like hotcakes in EUrope. Every non gamer and gamer on a budget was buying it. Gamers would then try to overclock 8-cores on it, so it would either throttle or something would fail. So Asrock silently removed them from the CPU list. In a second time, it filled the CPU support list of all cheap model with the asterisk "please use with a top-down cooler". Better than having a wave of boards to RMA. Where's the profit in that, right?

Because, as you see, the I (current) delivered by mosfets, drops as temperature rises. So, you can understand why they want you to use "top-down cooler". The cooler the VRMs, the higher the chances that it won't throttle.

The GA-78LMT-USB3, for overclocking, beats all Asrock 970 (including the extreme3) and the 980. But up to 4Ghz, if you keep undervolting, i 'd say the Asrocks give nice features. They are honest boards, just not for overclocking. I have the Asrock 970 extreme3 R2.0 too, although currently sitting in its box. It's basically the same as R1.0, plus 1 capacitor and minus some heatsink covers...

Based on my experience with the Asrocks, to preserve longevity, i 'd stay at 4Ghz. It's just not wise to run "balls to the wall" this type of motherboards. I 've been buying Asrocks since S939 (about 15 for myself and more for friends and relatives). My opinion is: They are good for stock, but if you want to overclock, get something else, or go high end. And honestly, Asrock USED to have good BIOS support and reply to customer tickets. But recently, they disappointed me. 2 tickets, no reply... In the future i will stop using Asrocks for my main rig and go Gigabyte.

Not an ASrock hater, as you can see:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1500491/new-to-overclock-amd-fx8320-any-help-appreciated/20#post_22536724

But, i was deeply disappointed with the way they handled the CPU support and the customer support and well, the difference in quality with the Gigabyte 970 UD3P (the best budget board for AM3+) is so obvious. The Gigabyte has worse quality capacitor brand, but otherwise, it feels like a tank in comparison. BUT, if you keep it undervolted, an Asrock will keep even an 8350 decently, which is why i don't bother changing boards. Oh and ASrock has better bundle software.

If you want to OC, do put a small fan to blow at the mosfets. Or, if you are happy enough with 4Ghz, probably even a cheap Scythe Katana3 will be enough, since it naturally blows air to the VRM and here you can find it as low as 18 euros. And it installs directly on the AMD stock retention bracket.


----------



## Djmatrix32

So I bought an MSI GD80 showed up DOA and I sent it back. Then I bought another Sabertooth 990FX and I am looking to use this with my 8320 what are the chances it will work with the Sabertooth out of the box with no bios flash?


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Djmatrix32*
> 
> So I bought an MSI GD80 showed up DOA and I sent it back. Then I bought another Sabertooth 990FX and I am looking to use this with my 8320 what are the chances it will work with the Sabertooth out of the box with no bios flash?


If you get the R2.0, i am 99,9% sure it will support it out of the box. If you get the R1.0, from a quick visit to ASUS site, it wil support it out of the box, if it ships with BIOS 1604 or newer (shipping BIOS can change with time).


----------



## madmalkav

Thanks everyone for the tips, I already tried some of this stuff in the past -I think there is an old thread by me some months old-. Anyway if someone figures the VRM info for this motherboard it will be great, I want to know how many amps am I using and what is the safe range for this MB.

@undervolter , how do you measure VRM temps on your 970 extreme3?


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madmalkav*
> 
> Thanks everyone for the tips, I already tried some of this stuff in the past -I think there is an old thread by me some months old-. Anyway if someone figures the VRM info for this motherboard it will be great, I want to know how many amps am I using and what is the safe range for this MB.
> 
> @undervolter , how do you measure VRM temps on your 970 extreme3?


I am afraid the motherboard does not provide VRM temp info on its own. But even then, i don't know if i would trust it.









I use this, which i know it's accurate:

http://www.scythe-eu.com/no_cache/en/pressrelease/product/scythe-kama-thermo-wireless.html


----------



## cdoublejj

here is my thermal monitor of choice.



the more it hurts the bigger the heat sink needed.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> here is my thermal monitor of choice.
> 
> the more it hurts the bigger the heat sink needed.


Well, we all started this way. It works!


----------



## cdoublejj

One of these days i'm gonna pick one of these up, http://www.ebay.com/itm/331000816514?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

IDK how much good it will do, if it's warm or warm-hot to the touch i heat sink it, heck sometimes i heat sink it anyways.


----------



## cdoublejj

ASRock FM2A88M Extreme4+ FM2+ / FM2 AMD A88X (Bolton D4) SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> ASRock FM2A88M Extreme4+ FM2+ / FM2 AMD A88X (Bolton D4) SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard


Interesting photo, i 've never noticed this before... 2 different capacitor brands on the same mobo. The 1st photo has the biggest capacitance caps, from Japanese Nichicon (an Asrock usual till now). Which is good. They are [email protected], but Nichicon = quality. However, the 4 smaller capacitance caps on the bottom of the photo, are not Nichicons, but taiwanese Apaq. This company is known for cheaper caps, but is invading now 3 out of 4 major manufacturers. ASUS started it, recently Gigabyte started adopting them (my Giga U3P has Apaq, despite the once proud Gigabyte's description where UD motherboard have japanese caps) and now seems Asrock is moving to Apaq too... Only MSI remains without Apaq apparently...

The same applies to the 2nd photo. THe caps on the right, are high capacitance Nichicons. The left is low capacitance Apaq... The mosfets in the 1 photo i can't see them well. Those in the second are a classic combo of 2 NXP LF-PAKs. Which are good actually...


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Undervolter*
> 
> Interesting photo, i 've never noticed this before... 2 different capacitor brands on the same mobo. The 1st photo has the biggest capacitance caps, from Japanese Nichicon (an Asrock usual till now). Which is good. They are [email protected], but Nichicon = quality. However, the 4 smaller capacitance caps on the bottom of the photo, are not Nichicons, but taiwanese Apaq. This company is known for cheaper caps, but is invading now 3 out of 4 major manufacturers. ASUS started it, recently Gigabyte started adopting them (my Giga U3P has Apaq, despite the once proud Gigabyte's description where UD motherboard have japanese caps) and now seems Asrock is moving to Apaq too... Only MSI remains without Apaq apparently...
> 
> The same applies to the 2nd photo. THe caps on the right, are high capacitance Nichicons. The left is low capacitance Apaq... The mosfets in the 1 photo i can't see them well. *Those in the second are a classic combo of 2 NXP LF-PAKs. Which are good actually...*




Thank God!!! Finally something went right on this build!!! I will be heatsinking them later on, have a 100 watt APU with an H80i!

BTW: 1 and 2 photos are of the same thing.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> Thank God!!! Finally something went right on this build!!! I will be heatsinking them later on, have a 100 watt APU with an H80i!
> 
> BTW: 1 and 2 photos are of the same thing.


LOLOLOL! I don't think the VRM as it seems will have any trouble with 100W APUs. Has also 4 mosfets per phase, which, given Asrock's past, it's generous... My only "fear" with Asrocks is the thin PCB, which usually causes increased heat, but at stock you shouldn't have any problems and this is 4+2 phase actually, which is quite good for an APU.


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Undervolter*
> 
> LOLOLOL! I don't think the VRM as it seems will have any trouble with 100W APUs. Has also 4 mosfets per phase, which, given Asrock's past, it's generous... My only "fear" with Asrocks is the thin PCB, which usually causes increased heat, but at stock you shouldn't have any problems and this is 4+2 phase actually, which is quite good for an APU.


i guess i will find out just how _hurty_ the VRMs get under full load.


----------



## cdoublejj

Playing with some heat sink ideas. I SERIOUSLY need a bandsaw with a metal blade. i have 45+ LBS of heat sinks to cut down. I could sell them cheaper whit shipping cheaper than newegg for the amount heat sinks and cooling performance given.


----------



## cdoublejj

yup the old finger test tells me if i had help my fingers. on there i bet there are a good 45-ish C


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> yup the old finger test tells me if i had help my fingers. on there i bet there are a good 45-ish C


What did you use to fix the heatsink into position?


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Undervolter*
> 
> What did you use to fix the heatsink into position?


AS5 glue, picture is not affixed, just set in place. It should be *NOTED* that cut tiny piece of electrical tape and placed them over the brown SMDs before gluing the heat sinks, since there are pretty close in height to the MOSFETs, THEN glued the heat sinks on. the VRM/MOSFETs do get warm/hot with out the heat sinks.

This should be a solid board now.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> AS5 glue, picture is not affixed, just set in place. It should be *NOTED* that cut tiny piece of electrical tape and placed them over the brown SMDs before gluing the heat sinks, since there are pretty close in height to the MOSFETs, THEN glued the heat sinks on. the VRM/MOSFETs do get warm/hot with out the heat sinks.
> 
> This should be a solid board now.


Thanks. You did a neat job.


----------



## cdoublejj

it's a same we can't make this a recommended FM2+ board or something.

just did the old touch test after running for 10-16 hours and the VRMs temps feel cooler but, the inductor coils are a bit warm but. it feels like the VRM heat sinks are working well.


----------



## LEOPEVA

Looking the pictures of cdoublejj, i decide to put some photos of my work in a cheap 3+1 phases mobo, is a little extreme, but i had the time and the resources, with artic alumina thermal adhesive and some very, very cheap heatsink from local store, all for about $11, i'm not from usa, so sorry for mi english, i put heatsinks in the chokes, drivers and mosfets, in one of the pictures you can see, in the red circles, the glue, artic alumina, this product is awesome:


----------



## xxpenguinxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LEOPEVA*
> 
> Looking the pictures of cdoublejj, i decide to put some photos of my work in a cheap 3+1 phases mobo, is a little extreme, but i had the time and the resources, i use artic alumina thermal adhesive and some very, very cheap heatsink from local store, all for about $11, i'm not from usa, so sorry for mi inglish, i put heatsinks in the chokes, drivers and mosfets, in one of the pictures you can see , in the red circles, the glue ,artic alumina, this product is awsome:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


You should post that setup in this thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/666445/post-your-ghetto-rigging-shenanigans/0_20


----------



## felix

I got a bulk heatsink piece from ebay, 4cm tall, with thinly ribbed fins, and i cut it to fit the Gigabyte GA-MA790X-DS4 i got in it's box...

When i bought this board, i was watercooling the whole system VRM,NB,SB,CPU,GPU, so now i prepared it to be sold and working as air-cooled.

Here is the VRM area and measurements. I had also got 4 of the same mosfets to add in the empty places, but this side-project was never completed (too many side-projects consuming my time)....



The VRM waterblock (Watercool SW-3b) :



The watercooled system :



The air-cooling solution :


----------



## WhiteSnake91

None of the "spread-sheets" on the first post can be scrolled to the side so I can't see the rest of the info on the right when it cuts off, not sure what's wrong.....

I wasn't going for an extreme overclock but I'd like to get my 1055t to at least 1090t/1100t levels, I have the 760GM-E51 MSI AM3 motherboard coming.

edit, got the google docs URL from quoting the main post. Not sure why the forum just cuts off the edge of it though... *shrug*

"760GM-E51 4+1 No 140W Not for OC Yes None 3 transistor 4 pin mATX "

I should be able to get it to 1100t levels then since both cpu are only 125w.

Supposedly it could even use an fx 8320/8350 since it appears to be one of the few (I know of) regular AM3 mobos that got updated for AM3+ with an update.


----------



## Neilthran

According to MSI the 760GM-E51 mobo does NOT support AM3+ processors:

http://www.msi.com/support/mb/760GME51.html#support-cpu

To see the spreadsheet you can also do right click on it, and choose to open the frame in another tab (at least in Firefox).

If you plan to OC on that board you should at least plan for additional cooling for the vrm area (heatsinks and/or a fan), and i wouldn't expect a very big OC. MSI doesn't have a very good history with it's average and budget boards.


----------



## palker4

When i checked a year ago 760gm e51 supported AM3+ so i put 6300 in it even overclocked it to 4.3 GHz and it worked for a year. It died this monday. From what i read here it looks like VRM failure (computer would not turn and no fan would spin). Ordered msi 970 gaming and looks like it is not the best choice but should last until i save enough money to build intel based machine.


----------



## WhiteSnake91

I'm a little sleep deprived right now and can't find the forum post on it, but, I found on google people saying the FX version of this msi 760g e51 board is the same thing as the old am3 version, just with a bios update for fx support. an fx6300 would be a sidegrade from my 1055t anyway and I wouldn't want to risk an fx 8320 on it anyway.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130254 old am3 version

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130634 am3+ version

Got it cheap for a secondary system and I'm really satisfied with it. Turned on Cool n Quiet so it clocks itself down, but overclocked it to 3.5ghz and with an XFX HD7870GHZ Edition on 1080p Ultra (no MSAA) 64 player BF4 conquest Gulman Railway last night it stayed in the high 40s-capped at 60 which is actually better than my 3570k and 7950 fared......my 7950 used to dip into the 20s on that map. No other game gave me FPS problems with my 7950 rig though. BF4 has been known to be very buggy and even people with i7s and gtx 780s complained of poor performance on it.

Doing that mild overclock from the stock 2.8ghz to 3.5 really helped the minimum. Before on stock it dipped to 31fps and still capped at 60, just up and down alot. On 3.5 it's much more stable and smooth. I imagine it would purr at 4ghz...

Not sure how much more I'd feel comfy pushing it on this board though......the stock cooler is old by now and noisy, I need to get around to putting this h80i on it. I have it in a cooler master haf xm case with a 200mm fan right up above it so it should be decent.

I'm not pushing it crazy. I'm pretty much at 1100t level right now.

Going to get an SSD for it pronto though....after being used to an ssd for so long on my intel rig using this old hitachi 400gb 7200rpm feels icky, it's max read/write speed is only ~60mb and it's loud when it's seeking, like those OLD tape computers in the 1979 Alien movie, or the Alien Isolation game if anybody has played that.

Through googling I came across posts on this forum before where people just used a single 120mm fan as exhaust on their h80i and it stayed very quiet and cooled pretty much as well as using 2 fans on it.

edit: here's the forum post I found.... https://teksyndicate.com/forum/motherboards/motherboard-update-run-fx-8350-am3-socket/133517

take it for what you will. The guy posting said he was running an fx 6200 in it. But I wouldn't risk an 8320 in it anyway... 6 cores is good enough for me for a secondary system...


----------



## WhiteSnake91

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *palker4*
> 
> When i checked a year ago 760gm e51 supported AM3+ so i put 6300 in it even overclocked it to 4.3 GHz and it worked for a year. It died this monday. From what i read here it looks like VRM failure (computer would not turn and no fan would spin). Ordered msi 970 gaming and looks like it is not the best choice but should last until i save enough money to build intel based machine.


that MSI Gaming 970 is actually really solid from everything I've seen and supports crossfire and not at the gimped 4x speed either. Supposedly with an 8+2 powerphase, VRM heatsink...etc etc. you should be fine with it.

I'm thinking of eventually upgrading to it, along with an 8320. Although this Phenom x6 will serve me well for awhile...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130790


----------



## reflex99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WhiteSnake91*
> 
> that MSI Gaming 970 is actually really solid from everything I've seen and supports crossfire and not at the gimped 4x speed either. Supposedly with an 8+2 powerphase, VRM heatsink...etc etc. you should be fine with it.
> 
> I'm thinking of eventually upgrading to it, along with an 8320. Although this Phenom x6 will serve me well for awhile...
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130790


Added MSI 970 Gaming. Lemme know if there's any errors.


----------



## WhiteSnake91

I noticed the Biostar ta970 a few months ago got a reskin in a black/yellow layout as well as apparently getting UEFI. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813138372 about $60 ever since I've seen it

I know it's probably been awhile since any new am3+ mobos came out









There's also the GIGABYTE GA-970A-UD3P AM3+ with an 8+2 powerphase http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128651 seen as low as ~$75 although currently ~$95

also seems to be a new "ASRock 970 Performance" "Supports FX 9590 & 9370 CPUs, 3-Way CFX, M.2, Purity Sound 2" with an 8+2 powerphase and 220w cpu support.

sounds like their answer to the MSI Gaming 970, as well as trying to take a stab at intel's z97 with the M.2 support, hmmmm interesting. Maybe it would be a better choice than the MSI gaming 970.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157577

not sure, it only has 3 reviews.

Just my findings from recently and the past several months, I remember skimming the other day and iirc didn't see these yet included









edit: there's also a new asrock extreme 6 990fx, seems to have the same features as that Asrock 970 performance though, 8+2 powerphase, 220w cpu support. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157576

I'm not personally sure if the MSI gaming 970 has 8+2 or a 6+2, info seems to go both ways reading online from what I've seen. Not a super high overclocker, but respectable.


----------



## palker4

According to this review the MSI 970 Gaming has only 6+2 power phase.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Motherboards/MSI-970-Gaming-Motherboard-Review-AM3-Gets-Something-New-Change/Further-Observa

Anyway it arrived today so i tried it with my FX 6300 and sure enough computer did not boot (So confirmed VRM failure on that MSI 760gm E51). I had to put my old Athlon X3 455 in. So now i have great GPU (GTX 970) and poor CPU. Hopefully i can OC it a bit.


----------



## cdoublejj

any know the VRM setup on the ASUS P5G41T-M LX PLUS?


----------



## Stufi

Hey guys, I'm about to add some cooling to my VRMs on ASUS M5A99X EVO R2.0. Would one 40mm fan be ok, or should i have two of them next to each other? Also, there seems to be another heatsink below the CPU, is that part of the VRM and do i need to cool that too? Just to give an idea why im doing this, I have my FX 8350 clocked @ 4.6GHz with around ~4.30V and i think i should add some active cooling to the VRM if i want to go any higher. My processor cooler is NH-D15 which is doing a great job cooling my processor, with the middle fan as low as it can be so it should blow some air to the VRM heatsink. I have also added my old 212 EVO cooler's fan to the back of my motherboard to cool the socket.


----------



## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stufi*
> 
> Hey guys, I'm about to add some cooling to my VRMs on ASUS M5A99X EVO R2.0. Would one 40mm fan be ok, or should i have two of them next to each other? Also, there seems to be another heatsink below the CPU, is that part of the VRM and do i need to cool that too? Just to give an idea why im doing this, I have my FX 8350 clocked @ 4.6GHz with around ~4.30V and i think i should add some active cooling to the VRM if i want to go any higher. My processor cooler is NH-D15 which is doing a great job cooling my processor, with the middle fan as low as it can be so it should blow some air to the VRM heatsink. I have also added my old 212 EVO cooler's fan to the back of my motherboard to cool the socket.


a single 80mm would be better. It will fit. That heatsink is beefy.


----------



## Stufi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wirerat*
> 
> a single 80mm would be better. It will fit. That heatsink is beefy.


Hmm, okay but how about the heatsink below CPU? Do i have to add a cooler to that as well? I mean is it a VRM or something else?

E: You can actually see it in my profile pic. That blue heatsink below the CPU cooler is the one im talking about.


----------



## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stufi*
> 
> Hmm, okay but how about the heatsink below CPU? Do i have to add a cooler to that as well? I mean is it a VRM or something else?
> 
> E: You can actually see it in my profile pic. That blue heatsink below the CPU cooler is the one im talking about.


I used to own that board the small sqaure heatsink below the cpu socket is the plx chip. it doesnt get hot like the vrm does. The lower heatsink down at the right does get very hot though. The northbridge is there. Consider putting some airflow there too.


----------



## Stufi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wirerat*
> 
> I used to own that board the small sqaure heatsink below the cpu socket is the plx chip. it doesnt get hot like the vrm does. The lower heatsink down at the right does get very hot though. The northbridge is there. Consider putting some airflow there too.


The one below GPU? If its that one, I have a fan in the bottom of the case so that should cool it off a bit, yes? Im also going to remove the lower hard drive cage to get better air flow from both of the front fans.

E: I looked at some pictures of the board. The small square you described is below the GPU in the bottom right. The VRM heatsink and the heatsink below CPU are actually connected with a heatpipe, which leads me to believe the other one must be north bridge? Its between the GPU and CPU so there isnt much airflow there, so I should probably add a small fan to that as well? I havent done any NB clocking though, I have just raised CPU clocks and voltage.


----------



## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stufi*
> 
> The one below GPU? If its that one, I have a fan in the bottom of the case so that should cool it off a bit, yes? Im also going to remove the lower hard drive cage to get better air flow from both of the front fans.
> 
> E: I looked at some pictures of the board. The small square you described is below the GPU in the bottom right. The VRM heatsink and the heatsink below CPU are actually connected with a heatpipe, which leads me to believe the other one must be north bridge? Its between the GPU and CPU so there isnt much airflow there, so I should probably add a small fan to that as well? I havent done any NB clocking though, I have just raised CPU clocks and voltage.


you can add a fan there but it is the coolest of the three heatsinks.


----------



## madmalkav

I took out the VRM dissipator on a Asrock 990FX Extreme 3 but I was unable to take a good picture on the VRMs. I (barely) see two different numberings engraved:

5930AL
PBm
1309D4
1450

And

9130AL
PBm
128B5
5352

Any data sheets for this stuff?

Good news is, Bitspower AMOSI VRM watercooling block is a perfect fit for this motherboard.


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madmalkav*
> 
> I took out the VRM dissipator on a Asrock 990FX Extreme 3 but I was unable to take a good picture on the VRMs. I (barely) see two different numberings engraved:
> 
> 5930AL
> PBm
> 1309D4
> 1450
> 
> And
> 
> 9130AL
> PBm
> 128B5
> 5352
> 
> Any data sheets for this stuff?
> 
> Good news is, Bitspower AMOSI VRM watercooling block is a perfect fit for this motherboard.


You can pull that metal plate off the NB heat sink for better NB cooling, it' just stuck with sticky tape.


----------



## madmalkav

Will consider if I ever have problems with it, but not planing on any serious OC.

By the way, this MB fan speed control is a pain in the ass, I can't get it to work other than setting different speed on BIOS or Asrock program , is like you can't do any PWM control and it will just spin at that speeds.


----------



## sooyong94

Will a MSI 970 Gaming work with a FX-8320 at stock (or possibly some mild OC)?

It's one of the boards with best bang per buck (at least in my country), however I'm concerned about its 6+2 power phase.


----------



## madmalkav

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sooyong94*
> 
> Will a MSI 970 Gaming work with a FX-8320 at stock (or possibly some mild OC)?
> 
> It's one of the boards with best bang per buck (at least in my country), however I'm concerned about its 6+2 power phase.


You have info about that motherboard on this thread, in the first page you have some VRM info:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1501416/msi-970-gaming-anyone

About the Asrock 990FX Extreme3, any way I can find some datasheets to see max amps per phase? Only thing I can find is they are made by NXP.


----------



## palker4

I bought 970 gaming and it turns out it does not support FX CPUs out of the box well at least my did not


----------



## Neilthran

So i was thinking of putting heatsinks on my motherboard mosfets. Will something like this work?





Base - 4mm
Fins height - 31mm
Total 35mm

I was thinking of using Alumina Epoxy. So what do you guys think? For now I'm using the stock cooler, i like the fact that the heatsinks will be tall (is that good or not?).


----------



## felix

You can test first using a non-permanent attachment way while having the motherboard laying horizontally.. If you're satisfied with the cooling level offered, then a permanent thermal adhesive medium would do the job.


----------



## Neilthran

haven't thought of that felix, thanks for the idea! Will try it.


----------



## felix

I used for a modded VGA a set of self-adhesive thermal pads for the VRAM VRM's, i had 2 different pads from ebay, unfortunately the sellers do not have them anymore.

The products resembling are the 2 following :

1) http://www.ebay.de/itm/1x-PAD-TERMICO-100x100x1mm-HEATSINK-thermal-pad-CONDUCTIVE-SILICONE-CPU-GPU-/261661287239?pt=Prodotti_per_raffreddamento_per_PC_e_Server&hash=item3cec3a6347

2) http://www.ebay.de/itm/50mm-x-50mm-0-5mm-THERMAL-HEATSINK-TRANSFER-PAD-DOUBLE-SIDED-SELF-ADHESIVE-TAPE-/200712166700

I believe i used the second one for the heatsinks on the GPU, i pressed it for just 10 seconds and is still holding strong the heatsink upside-down after a year or so (stress tested many times to see if it would fall).

There are various self-adhesive products to try here ( i had this seller in my favorites, great variety of pads) :

http://stores.ebay.de/thegamebooth/Thermal-pads-/_i.html?_fsub=3956407017

Αfter ensuring that the heatsinks u have can take the heat from the CPU VRM adequately, you can use the alumina epoxy. Maybe results will be even better after permanent solution.


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neilthran*
> 
> So i was thinking of putting heatsinks on my motherboard mosfets. Will something like this work?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Base - 4mm
> Fins height - 31mm
> Total 35mm
> 
> I was thinking of using Alumina Epoxy. So what do you guys think? For now I'm using the stock cooler, i like the fact that the heatsinks will be tall (is that good or not?).


world work VERY well.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *palker4*
> 
> I bought 970 gaming and it turns out it does not support FX CPUs out of the box well at least my did not


Needs a bios update which possibly may only be possible with an older CPU.


----------



## Alkanlover1813

How do I get to see the portion of the spreadsheet on pg. 1 to the right: I can't see the entire sheet?


----------



## idemo0009

an ASRock 970 Extreme4 isn't really good for vishera cpu's, I made the mistake of buying one for my FX 8370, and now I'm experiencing thermal throttling and bad performance in games.


----------



## miklkit

To view the whole chart, first pick the brand you want to look at. Then right click on the chart and then choose this frame and show in new window.


----------



## Grompf

This list is amazing, even if some boards are missing.

I just added these through the list with the information I found and hi I just registered here


Biostar TA970 Plus
Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3P (rev. 2.0)
ASUS M5A97 Plus
ASRock 970M Pro3
ASRock Fatal1ty 970 Performance
ASRock 990FX Extreme6


----------



## nukem

Does anyone know what the m5a99x evo r2 can handle with the vrms on water? I've got about 25 days before my uni waterblock shows up.

I might pick up one of the 220w fx cpus to mess around with. Im only going to wc the cpu and vrms on an occool 280 (45mm thick) rad and could add a 120 or 240 if needed...

Would the mosfets still crap out even if i can keep em cool?


----------



## Tivan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nukem*
> 
> Does anyone know what the m5a99x evo r2 can handle with the vrms on water? I've got about 25 days before my uni waterblock shows up.
> 
> I might pick up one of the 220w fx cpus to mess around with. Im only going to wc the cpu and vrms on an occool 280 (45mm thick) rad and could add a 120 or 240 if needed...
> 
> Would the mosfets still crap out even if i can keep em cool?


It'd probably do reasonably well with watercooling on the VRM mosfets, just keep in mind there's probably VRM mosfets on the backside as well. I'd be extra concerned about those.


----------



## nukem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tivan*
> 
> It'd probably do reasonably well with watercooling on the VRM mosfets, just keep in mind there's probably VRM mosfets on the backside as well. I'd be extra concerned about those.


Thanks! I'll make sure i have a look at the back of the
board when i rebuild. Maybe i can mount a slim fan behind the mobo tray or use some ram sinks.

There's always the option of a lower binned fx and oc untill i hit the wall too. I'd save some cash, but it just doesn't sound as fun as one of those non-practical beast 220w cpus


----------



## Neilthran

Well, a couple of posts back i asked about using some heatsinks for my vrm, and well here is the result, just wanted to share:




I used an old pentium 166 heatsink and a hacksaw. It worked fine so far, i still have to change the stock cooler, but for now i am quite pleased.


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sefegiru*
> 
> This list is amazing, even if some boards are missing.
> 
> I just added these through the list with the information I found and hi I just registered here
> 
> 
> Biostar TA970 Plus
> Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3P (rev. 2.0)
> ASUS M5A97 Plus
> ASRock 970M Pro3
> ASRock Fatal1ty 970 Performance
> ASRock 990FX Extreme6


Biostar TA970 Plus = 4+1 phase analog/hybrid, doubled, <140W continuous (estimated)
GA-970A-UD3P = 4+1 true phase digital, doubled (same as 990FXA-UD3 V4.0 & V4.1), < 140W continuous (estimated)
ASUS M5A97 Plus = 4+1 true phase analog, < 95W continuos (estimated) - NOTE: (don't use with any FX-8K series)
ASRock 970M Pro3 = 4+1 true phase analog, <95W continuous (estimated)- NOTE: (don't use with any FX-8K series)
ASRock Fatal1ty 970 Performance = 4+1 true phase analog/hybrid, doubled, < 140W continuous (estimated)
ASRock 990FX Extreme6 = same as ASRock Fatal1ty 970 Performance


----------



## Grompf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Biostar TA970 Plus = 4+1 phase analog/hybrid, doubled, <140W continuous (estimated)
> GA-970A-UD3P = 4+1 true phase digital, doubled (same as 990FXA-UD3 V4.0 & V4.1), < 140W continuous (estimated)
> ASUS M5A97 Plus = 4+1 true phase analog, < 95W continuos (estimated) - NOTE: (don't use with any FX-8K series)
> ASRock 970M Pro3 = 4+1 true phase analog, <95W continuous (estimated)- NOTE: (don't use with any FX-8K series)
> ASRock Fatal1ty 970 Performance = 4+1 true phase analog/hybrid, doubled, < 140W continuous (estimated)
> ASRock 990FX Extreme6 = same as ASRock Fatal1ty 970 Performance


So the new 990FX E6 is worse than my 990FX Extreme4? How good is the VRM at the 990FXE4 anyway? Could you please tell that?


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sefegiru*
> 
> So the new 990FX E6 is worse than my 990FX Extreme4? How good is the VRM at the 990FXE4 anyway? Could you please tell that?


990FX Extreme4 is not better than Extreme6 but rather equal.

Extreme4 has a hybrid 2+2+1 phase VRM which has been doubled.
The controller on it (L6717A) supports 2 phases (CPU) with the internal drivers, 2 phases (CPU) with external drivers and single phase for the NB.
Each of these five phases have then been doubled which makes it theorectically a 8+2 phase board.
Unfortunately the doubling appear to be made by using the fake phase scheme, which means there is no actual hardware for the doubling (i.e. drivers supporting doubling).


----------



## Grompf

Okay thanks!

Another question what would you choose for slight OC in the AM3+ market with around 100€ for a mainboard?


----------



## The Stilt

ASUS M5A97 EVO R2.0 - Has a 6+2 phase fully digital VRM. The six phases for the CPU are real, native phases however the CPUNB phases have been doubled by using a proper hardware for the purpose (double driver / doubler). The CPUNB phase count has never been a issue as the NB and L3 cache consumes less than 15W of power even when overclocked. The board can deliver up to 180W of constant power (estimated) when some additional air flow is provided to the VRM heatsink. When the VRM is being properly water cooled the board can support FX-9K series CPUs (220W) without any issues.

The board also has fully digital two phase VRM for the memory.

In Europe the board is available for around 94 euros (99 USD) with the VAT or sales tax of 19% included.

ASUS M5A99X EVO R2.0 (in Europe 120€ / 127USD with 19% tax) and M5A99FX PRO R2.0 (in Europe 139€ / 147USD with 19% tax) have identical VRM configuration, however they are significantly more expensive because of the additional features.

Gigabyte GA-970A-UD3P - Has 4+1 phase digital, doubled VRM and relatively high quality power components (inductors, fets and capacitors).
*All of the available revisions of this board (up to date, Rev. 1.0 & 2.0) are good!*

In Europe the board is available for around 76 euros (80 USD) with the VAT or sales tax of 19% included.

Gigabyte GA-970A-D3P - Has 4+1 true phase digital VRM and relatively high quality power components (inductors, fets and capacitors).

In US the board is available for 85 USD (NewEgg).

Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 - Has 4+1 phase digital, doubled VRM and relatively high quality power components (inductors, fets and capacitors).
*Only Rev. 4.0 and Rev. 4.1 boards are any good the rest are crap, stay away from the older (< Rev. 4.0) ones!*

In Europe the board is available for around 123 euros (129 USD) with the VAT or sales tax of 19% included.


----------



## Grompf

Okay thanks a lot. I guess I know what I buy next.


----------



## winderic

Hi All, need a motherboard to go with my Phenom II 965BE, MSI 970 Gaming or Asrock 970 Fatal1ty? Or others?
Currently using M3A97-T Deluxe. Going to do some overclock and gaming mostly. Have Swiftech H220 as cpu cooler.

Thanks
Eric


----------



## Red1776

I just added an amazing board to the list. The ASROCK [email protected]+

for those who had written off Asrock, they really have turned it around.


----------



## felix

Amazing photoshooting..


----------



## Unfortunately

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neilthran*
> 
> Well, a couple of posts back i asked about using some heatsinks for my vrm, and well here is the result, just wanted to share:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used an old pentium 166 heatsink and a hacksaw. It worked fine so far, i still have to change the stock cooler, but for now i am quite pleased.


That's awesome; has it had any observable effect on temperatures? i had a high temp reading in OCCT that turned out the be the VRM's (it hit 70C before i chickened out of the OCCT run) and adding some hacksawed sinks stabilized it in the 50's, which was way more of a gain than i was expecting. Also, when you pick your cpu cooler (if you haven't already) you might want to consider something that will move some air over those fins.


----------



## Neilthran

Haven't picked the cooler yet, but already had in mind a tower cooler that's not too tall and moves some air to the fins ( like the thermarlight 120M). Sadly the board doesn't have sensors in the vrm area (as far as i know) so i can't have an accurate way of knowing. But the fins do get hot, and the overall temp in the cpu socket is a bit better (using the stock cooler). I think that with a different cooler the difference will be big. When i get an aftermarket cooler i will try a very low OC, like 4.2Ghz ., and take it from there.

For now i have the cpu at a 3.8Ghz (which isn't really an overclock, but the stock heatsink can't handle more if i want temps below 62°C). Still i am pretty happy with the final result


----------



## RaduZ

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Info for some of the VRMs on A88X motherboards:
> 
> *ASRock*
> 
> ASRock FM2A88X Extreme4+
> 
> 4+2 phase
> Richtek RT8894A
> Analog
> Nichicon LF-series 7mOhm 820µF - 4100/2460µF Bulk
> NXP LFPAK PSMN9R1 (57A, 7.8mOhm), PSMN5R8 (90A, 4.4mOhm)
> 
> ASRock FM2A88XM Extreme4+
> 
> 4+2 phase
> Richtek RT8894A
> Analog
> Nichicon CM-series 7mOhm 820µF - 4100/2460µF Bulk
> NXP LFPAK PSMN9R1 (57A, 7.8mOhm), PSMN5R8 (90A, 4.4mOhm)
> 
> ASRock Fatal1ty A88X Killer
> 
> 4+2 phase
> Richtek RT8894A
> Analog
> Nichicon LF-series 7mOhm 820µF (custom color) - 4100/2460µF Bulk
> NXP LFPAK PSMN9R1 (57A, 7.8mOhm), PSMN5R8 (90A, 4.4mOhm)
> 
> ASRock FM2A88X Extreme6+
> 
> 4+2 phase (CPU phases doubled, IR3598)
> IRF 3565A
> Digital
> Nichicon LF-series 7mOhm 820µF (custom color) - 4100/2460µF Bulk
> APEK PMPAK AP4034GMT (44.3A, 8mOhm), AP92U03GMT (90A, 4mOhm)
> 
> *ASUS*
> 
> ASUS A88XM-A
> 
> 3+2 phase
> IR3565
> Digital
> APAQ 820µF - 4920/1640µF (up to 5740/1900µF effective) Bulk
> 
> ASUS A88XM-E
> 
> 3+2 phase
> IR3565
> Digital
> FPCAP 5K 820µF - 4920/1640µF (up to 5740/1900µF effective) Bulk
> 
> ASUS A88XM-PLUS
> 
> 4+2 phase
> IR3565
> Digital
> APAQ 820µF - 4920/2460µF (up to 5740/2870µF effective) Bulk
> 
> ASUS A88X-PLUS
> 
> 4+2 phase
> IR3565
> Digital
> APAQ 820µF - 4920/2460µF (up to 5740/2870µF effective) Bulk
> 
> ASUS A88X-PRO <<== The Stilt approved!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6+2 phase
> IR3567A
> Digital
> FPCAP 5K 820µF - 6560/2460µF (up to 10900/4100µF effective) Bulk
> Trio SuperAlloy Inductors
> 
> *GIGABYTE*
> 
> Gigabyte F2A88XM-DS2
> 
> 3+2 phase
> ISL6377
> Analog
> Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 3360/1120µF Bulk
> 
> Gigabyte F2A88X-HD3
> 
> 4+2 phase
> ISL6377
> Analog
> Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 3360/1120µF Bulk
> 
> Gigabyte F2A88XM-HD3
> 
> 3+2 phase
> ISL6377
> Analog
> Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 3360/1120µF Bulk
> 
> Gigabyte F2A88X-D3H
> 
> 4+2 phase
> ISL6377
> Analog
> Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 3360/1120µF Bulk
> OnSemi NTMFS4C06N (69A, 6mOhm), NVTFS4C10N (47A, 7.4mOhm)
> 
> Gigabyte F2A88XM-DH3
> 
> 4+2 phase
> ISL6377
> Analog
> Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 3360/1120µF Bulk
> 
> Gigabyte F2A88X-UP4 <<== The Stilt approved!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6+2 phase
> IRF 3657A
> Digital
> Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 5600/2240µF Bulk
> IR3550M PowIRStage 60A
> 
> Gigabyte F2A88XN-WIFI <<== The Stilt approved!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4+2 phase
> IRF 3657B
> Digital
> UCC or APAQ 560µF - 3360/1120µF Bulk
> IR3550M PowIRStage 60A
> 
> Gigabyte G1.Sniper A88X
> 
> 4+2 phase
> ISL6377
> Analog
> Sanyo OS-CON SEPC 7mOhm 560µF - 5600/2240µF Bulk
> Vishay SiRA12DP PowerPak (25A, 4.4mOhm), Vishay SiR428DP (30A, 6.1mOhm) <<== Weak
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *MSI*
> 
> MSI A88XM Gaming
> 
> 4+2 phase
> ISL6377
> Analog
> UCC(?) 560µF - 4860/3400µF Bulk
> 
> MSI A88X-G41
> 
> 4+2 phase
> ISL6x77x
> Analog
> UCC 820µF - 6560/1640µF Bulk
> 
> MSI A88X-G43
> 
> 4+2 phase
> IR3567A
> Digital
> UCC 820µF - 6560/2460µF (up to 7544/2830µF effective) Bulk
> 
> MSI A88X-G45 Gaming
> 
> 4+2 phase
> ISL6377
> Analog
> UCC(?) 560µF - 4860/3400µF Bulk
> 
> MSI A88XI AC
> 
> 3+2 phase
> ISL62773
> Analog
> UCC(?] xxxµF - Unknown amount of Bulk





Can someone add this to the list on the first page? It is really usefull and really hard to find >.>


----------



## ronnin426850

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaduZ*
> 
> Can someone add this to the list on the first page? It is really usefull and really hard to find >.>


OP was last online 4 weeks ago.


----------



## Undervolter

*ERROR:* The MSI 970 Gaming has been classified as 8+2. It's 6+2 (count the chokes, they 're 8).

@OP, if you can edit it and change it.


----------



## aaronlaplante

Is there anywhere someone knows of that i can find the vrm info on the 990 fxa gaming board from asus. Its equipeed with usb 3.1 and has just been released. I would like to compare it with the current gd80v2 and see if its a minor upgrade. I can get the board for free is why i ask.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aaronlaplante*
> 
> Is there anywhere someone knows of that i can find the vrm info on the 990 fxa gaming board from asus. Its equipeed with usb 3.1 and has just been released. I would like to compare it with the current gd80v2 and see if its a minor upgrade. I can get the board for free is why i ask.


In ASUS website there is no such motherboard. If you mean MSI, read here:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1554299/msi-990fxa-gaming-motherboard


----------



## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aaronlaplante*
> 
> Is there anywhere someone knows of that i can find the vrm info on the 990 fxa gaming board from asus. Its equipeed with usb 3.1 and has just been released. I would like to compare it with the current gd80v2 and see if its a minor upgrade. I can get the board for free is why i ask.


You meant new gaming board from MSI. Asus has no new board. Msi has a new 990fx with 3.1.

According to newegg and MSI spec page that new 990fx msi motherboard does not support 200w + amd cpu (9 series).

That may say something about the build quality of the vrm.

MSI left the 200w+ cpu off the supported list. Kinda subtle.

http://us.msi.com/support/mb/990FXA-GAMING.html#support-cpu

Newegg is very direct with it plastered right under the image as they have a no return policy on cpu.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=13-130-859

On the other hand the GD80v2 can support the 9 series cpus.


----------



## Mortisusnoir

I know this is a very old forum post but hopefully people still look at it. I noticed my motherboard (H-RS880-uATX (Aloe) motherboard) was not listed it is manufactured by Foxconn. I was hoping if anyone had any input of whether or not this motherboard can be Over-clocked.
Thank you for any intel on this matter.








if anyone reads this


----------



## xxpenguinxx

If it's from an HP then most likely you will not be able to overclock with it since all OEMs lock down most BIOS features. Check in the BIOS and see if there is an option to change the FSB. The default value is 200.

Even if you can overclock with it, I would not attempt it. That motherboard only has 1 transistor per channel, 4+1 design, and no cooling for them. You might be able to get away with overclocking it as long as you don't increase any voltages, but I really do not recommend trying.


----------



## acepro71

msi 970 gaming are now 6+2 >.>


----------



## Extreme Potato

Hello all,

Ive got a question about the the AM3+ Asus M5A99FX PRO R2.0 and the M5A99X EVO (R2.0).
Does the colour for the Fx board phase count matter? Or was it a mistake, as i searched the thread and saw that some of them may be mislabeled or slightly in between?
Would either of those boards be good with an FX 8320e OCed to around 4.0ghz give or take?
Some board suggestions would be nice if my choices are a bit off.

Thanks, Jared


----------



## Wirerat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Extreme Potato*
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> Ive got a question about the the AM3+ Asus M5A99FX PRO R2.0 and the M5A99X EVO (R2.0).
> Does the colour for the Fx board phase count matter? Or was it a mistake, as i searched the thread and saw that some of them may be mislabeled or slightly in between?
> Would either of those boards be good with an FX 8320e OCed to around 4.0ghz give or take?
> Some board suggestions would be nice if my choices are a bit off.
> 
> Thanks, Jared


both those asus mobos have high quality 6-2 vrm. They are capable of getting fx8 cores to around 4.8ghz depending on the quality of the cpu as always.


----------



## Solohuman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wirerat*
> 
> both those asus mobos have high quality 6-2 vrm. They are capable of getting fx8 cores to around 4.8ghz depending on the quality of the cpu as always.


That's good to know, I am thinking of upgrading my FX-6300 to one of the 8xxx models but avoiding the 9xxx series due to high TDP and thermal reqs.(FO4 recommended system specs - 8 core cpu...lol..) and (of course!) doing some OC with air cooling on it..


----------



## F3ERS 2 ASH3S

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solohuman*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Wirerat*
> 
> both those asus mobos have high quality 6-2 vrm. They are capable of getting fx8 cores to around 4.8ghz depending on the quality of the cpu as always.
> 
> 
> 
> That's good to know, I am thinking of upgrading my FX-6300 to one of the 8xxx models but avoiding the 9xxx series due to high TDP and thermal reqs.(FO4 recommended system specs - 8 core cpu...lol..) and (of course!) doing some OC with air cooling on it..
Click to expand...

Best bet would be to get the 8370e and clock it from there. The 9xxx models are pretty much OCd 8350s any way,


----------



## Solohuman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F3ERS 2 ASH3S*
> 
> Best bet would be to get the 8370e and clock it from there. The 9xxx models are pretty much OCd 8350s any way,


For the time being, I would love to, but the "e" series are unavailable in Australia, at least I can't find any with my online retailers or even using this specific search engine for electronics & computers


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Solohuman*
> 
> For the time being, I would love to, but the "e" series are unavailable in Australia, at least I can't find any with my online retailers or even using this specific search engine for electronics & computers


http://staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=8370e&spos=3

?


----------



## Solohuman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> http://staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=8370e&spos=3
> 
> ?


Weird how it won't search with 'FX' in the field...


----------



## theoni

I know this is kind of late, but shouldn't the MSI 890fxa-gd70 be in the AM3+ list and not the AM3 list?

Just from my own reasoning, I originally had a MSI 890fxa-gd65. When I bought my fx-4100 (they were brand new and I wanted something cheap), it didn't work, so I sent in my board via the RMA system and received a MSI 890fxa-gd70. Honestly, I thought that it was super nice of the company to help my out. But anyway, it should be AM3+ and not AM3 because it is compatible with FX chips... right? Or is my thought-process here just wrong?


----------



## MishelLngelo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *theoni*
> 
> I know this is kind of late, but shouldn't the MSI 890fxa-gd70 be in the AM3+ list and not the AM3 list?
> 
> Just from my own reasoning, I originally had a MSI 890fxa-gd65. When I bought my fx-4100 (they were brand new and I wanted something cheap), it didn't work, so I sent in my board via the RMA system and received a MSI 890fxa-gd70. Honestly, I thought that it was super nice of the company to help my out. But anyway, it should be AM3+ and not AM3 because it is compatible with FX chips... right? Or is my thought-process here just wrong?


Yes, that's how theory goes but..... there's that complication even with AM3+, first is with several versions of same MB, than there's BIOS that might have to be updated and than there's difference between Bulldozer and Vishera based processors. Should also mention VRM, what can work with let's say FX 41xxx may not survive an FX8350 let alone FX 9xxx.
As far as processor compatibility list goes, manufacturers may not update it so you can't go by that alone in borderline cases, should also check BIOS updates, it's usually explained what they are good for.


----------



## Eldan

I know it's probably already been asked countless times, but is there such database for Intel boards? I'm running on AMD now (and glad to see my MB is in the "recommended" category), but I'm considering going with Intel for my next build and having a decent list like this one to look at would help me a lot


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eldan*
> 
> I know it's probably already been asked countless times, but is there such database for Intel boards? I'm running on AMD now (and glad to see my MB is in the "recommended" category), but I'm considering going with Intel for my next build and having a decent list like this one to look at would help me a lot


Looks like it hasn't been updated for a while, used to be the best list there was afaik.

http://sinhardware.com/images/vrmlist.png

EDIT :
Some info in this thread http://www.overclock.net/t/1572028/z170-vrm-discussion-thread


----------



## PH314

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> ASRock 970M Pro3 = 4+1 true phase analog, <95W continuous (estimated)- NOTE: (don't use with any FX-8K series)


I know I'm a bit late to the party, but I'd like to know what the estimation is based on? The difference compared to the Fatal1ty 970 Performance just seems a bit big, since it "only" has a doubled 4+1 design. After all, the VRM section in the 970M Pro3 does have a heatsink, which should make the mATX board better than 970 Pro3 and Pro3 R2.0, both of which are rated for a 140W CPU by the manufacturer (just like the 970M Pro3). Of course, that's TDP and not continuous power usage, but a stock FX-8xxx fits that spec quite well. The absence of a VRM heatsink on the 970 Pro3 and 970 Pro R2.0 is reflected in the CPU compatibility list, where ASRock says a top-down blowing cooler to be used with all FX-series CPUs. However, on the 970M Pro3 this requirement is limited to the 125 W TDP FX CPUs, which is also the case on the Fatal1ty 970 Performance.

Of course, the REAL reason I'm asking is because I'm interested in knowing how soon my own 970M Pro3 will pop.







I've paired it with a Phenom II 1090T BE, which now runs @ 3.8 GHz on all six cores and 1.4125 Vcore (although HWMonitor claims Vcore always stays below 1.4V, probably because I haven't disabled everything overclockers usually disable). I've run Prime95 (blend with 14 GB of RAM) for four hours without issues and with safe temps (socket below 70 C, CPU below 50 C). Furthermore, I have Noctua's top-down blowing NH-C14S cooling the CPU and an NF-A14 FLX blowing air out of the back panel at full rpm. I would thus think the VRM is provided with decent cooling. However, even as I'm typing this, HWMonitor claims my CPU is drawing 130+ W nearly all the time. The figure never goes above 141.60 W, even at full load, so I'm not sure how reliable this figure is. If it is and <95W continuous is accurate, shouldn't I see some sort of throttling, or am I just saved by my cooling?


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PH314*
> 
> I know I'm a bit late to the party, but I'd like to know what the estimation is based on? The difference compared to the Fatal1ty 970 Performance just seems a bit big, since it "only" has a doubled 4+1 design. After all, the VRM section in the 970M Pro3 does have a heatsink, which should make the mATX board better than 970 Pro3 and Pro3 R2.0, both of which are rated for a 140W CPU by the manufacturer (just like the 970M Pro3). Of course, that's TDP and not continuous power usage, but a stock FX-8xxx fits that spec quite well. The absence of a VRM heatsink on the 970 Pro3 and 970 Pro R2.0 is reflected in the CPU compatibility list, where ASRock says a top-down blowing cooler to be used with all FX-series CPUs. However, on the 970M Pro3 this requirement is limited to the 125 W TDP FX CPUs, which is also the case on the Fatal1ty 970 Performance.
> 
> Of course, the REAL reason I'm asking is because I'm interested in knowing how soon my own 970M Pro3 will pop.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've paired it with a Phenom II 1090T BE, which now runs @ 3.8 GHz on all six cores and 1.4125 Vcore (although HWMonitor claims Vcore always stays below 1.4V, probably because I haven't disabled everything overclockers usually disable). I've run Prime95 (blend with 14 GB of RAM) for four hours without issues and with safe temps (socket below 70 C, CPU below 50 C). Furthermore, I have Noctua's top-down blowing NH-C14S cooling the CPU and an NF-A14 FLX blowing air out of the back panel at full rpm. I would thus think the VRM is provided with decent cooling. However, even as I'm typing this, HWMonitor claims my CPU is drawing 130+ W nearly all the time. The figure never goes above 141.60 W, even at full load, so I'm not sure how reliable this figure is. If it is and <95W continuous is accurate, shouldn't I see some sort of throttling, or am I just saved by my cooling?


The VRM requirements for 45nm 10h parts and 32nm 15h parts are not really comparable. For example the Phenom II X4 965 (HDZ965FBK4DGI) is rated for 140W TDP and 91.8A IDDMax. Meanwhile the FX-8150 which has TDP of 125W, has significantly higher IDDMax of 145A. The component requirements for a VRM which is able to supply 100A @ 2.0V are significantly easier to meet than the requirements for a VRM which is able to supply 200A @ 1.0V.


----------



## PH314

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> The VRM requirements for 45nm 10h parts and 32nm 15h parts are not really comparable. For example the Phenom II X4 965 (HDZ965FBK4DGI) is rated for 140W TDP and 91.8A IDDMax. Meanwhile the FX-8150 which has TDP of 125W, has significantly higher IDDMax of 145A. The component requirements for a VRM which is able to supply 100A @ 2.0V are significantly easier to meet than the requirements for a VRM which is able to supply 200A @ 1.0V.


Very interesting. So basically a 125 W TDP Thuban will not stress the VRM as much as a 125 W TDP Vishera. Thus, the estimate of <95W continuous power applies to the FX series and for older CPUs the value may be higher. Furthermore, an eight-core Vishera will presumably stress the VRM more than a six-core, even though both can be rated at 125 W, which is why you advise against using FX-8xxx CPUs on this motherboard.

However, I'm still interested in knowing what the estimation is based on. According to this review the VRM components are unlabeled. If this is true, there might be no telling what current each MOSFET is rated for or what is the quality of these components. Is the estimation based just on the amount of phases, them being analog phases and possibly previous experience regarding ASRock motherboards?


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PH314*
> 
> Very interesting. So basically a 125 W TDP Thuban will not stress the VRM as much as a 125 W TDP Vishera. Thus, the estimate of <95W continuous power applies to the FX series and for older CPUs the value may be higher. Furthermore, an eight-core Vishera will presumably stress the VRM more than a six-core, even though both can be rated at 125 W, which is why you advise against using FX-8xxx CPUs on this motherboard.
> 
> However, I'm still interested in knowing what the estimation is based on. According to this review the VRM components are unlabeled. If this is true, there might be no telling what current each MOSFET is rated for or what is the quality of these components. Is the estimation based just on the amount of phases, them being analog phases and possibly previous experience regarding ASRock motherboards?


It is pretty easy to tell the VRM capabilities just from the looks of it. At least after you have some experience on the platform and after you have designed couple of motherboard VRMs yourself









970M Pro3 has 4+1 phase analog VRM with Renesas K03J2 (LS) and K03J3 (HS). While these are relatively high quality fets the fact that there are just 4 phases for VDDCR, combined with the usual issues typical to ASRock (low copper, low layer PCB, low quality high-loss inductors) makes the board certainly not recommended for anything higher than 95W. Nearly identical construction is used on several ASRock AMD boards (970 Performance, Extreme series, etc). with the only real difference being the advertized phase count. These boards usually have the very same VRM structure, but with doubled component count ("8+2" phase, in fake phase configuration). Despite ASRock advertized them as "220W TDP, FX-9K series" compatible they commonly have issues in running slightly overclocked FX-8K series CPU without the VRM cooking off / throttling.

So no, I would not recommend this board for anything higher than 95W 32nm CPU


----------



## PH314

Thank you for the explanation, I appreciate it. Do you mind if I quote you on the ASRock forum? I'm probably not the only ASRock customer that might think this sort of stuff is good to know.

As a side note, I do feel that ASRock missed an opportunity with this motherboard. Not that the weak VRM section is the only issue with this board, but there aren't many mATX motherboards with 970 chipsets around, so they could've easily made the motherboard a bit pricier and design the VRM to either have 6+1 analog phases or at least 8+2 "marketing phases". I don't think they would have lost a single customer due to pricing, the customers would have had a more durable motherboard and it might have earned them a few points in the eyes of enthusiasts. Overadvertising their motherboards' capabilities does them no good. Well, at least they put a heatsink on that VRM section, but it could be larger...


----------



## The Stilt

I agree, there is really no reason for not to build a higher-end mATX motherboards since there is no real size restrictions (only length). The lack of ITX AM3+ motherboards is fully understandable, since the platform requires to additional ASICs (NB/SB) and it is extremely hard (and expensive) to build a sufficient VRM to fit in the available space.

Feel free to quote anything I say.


----------



## FreezeTime26

Is good the motherboard M5A97 LE R2.0 for my specs?:
CPU: Amd fx6300
Ram: 8gb hyperx
GPU: Nvidia gtx 760ti


----------



## The Stilt

Good, no. It will work just fine at stock thou. M5A97 EVO is about the bare minimum, if you wish to overclock.


----------



## F3ERS 2 ASH3S

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Good, no. It will work just fine at stock thou. M5A97 EVO is about the bare minimum, if you wish to overclock.


^this

The pro is better for a little bit more. Max oc with a 8350 id say would be 4.8 VRMS really can't handle anymore than that and that is with a fan blowing on it.


----------



## The Stilt

I recon the new low has been reached











"Top Quality & Stability"

And then you´ll see this:



http://media.msi.com/main.php?g2_itemId=139669

The higher resolution image reveals that the board is in fact completely infested with Niko-Semi mosfets, mostly in D-Pak form. "Military Class" indeed.


----------



## MishelLngelo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> I recon the new low has been reached
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Top Quality & Stability"
> 
> And then you´ll see this:
> 
> 
> 
> http://media.msi.com/main.php?g2_itemId=139669
> 
> The higher resolution image reveals that the board is in fact completely infested with Niko-Semi mosfets, mostly in D-Pak form. "Military Class" indeed.


Not even a cooler over MOSFETs, another reason not to fall for bombastic names !!!


----------



## Dhoulmagus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MishelLngelo*
> 
> Not even a cooler over MOSFETs, another reason not to fall for bombastic names !!!


Depends how you guys define "Quality".. To some people it might mean a Quality marshmallow/weenie roast when it turns into a quality fire


----------



## MishelLngelo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Serious_Don*
> 
> Depends how you guys define "Quality".. To some people it might mean a Quality marshmallow/weenie roast when it turns into a quality fire


Right, try a serious OC on it and you'll have something to roast your marshmallows on. Now that's quality, dual purpose MB, marshmallow and weenie BBQ. !!!


----------



## The Stilt

I´d say a stock 125W TDP FX is more than sufficient as a BBQ party starter. Most likely a 95W TDP part is enough to make it throttle.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> I recon the new low has been reached
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Top Quality & Stability"
> 
> And then you´ll see this:
> 
> 
> 
> http://media.msi.com/main.php?g2_itemId=139669
> 
> The higher resolution image reveals that the board is in fact completely infested with Niko-Semi mosfets, mostly in D-Pak form. "Military Class" indeed.


That looks like a crappy OEM board pawned off as a retail board. ASRock with Extreme and MSI with Military Class. Effective but very deceptive marketing. No wonder AMD gets such a bad rap.


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> I recon the new low has been reached
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Top Quality & Stability"
> 
> And then you´ll see this:
> 
> 
> 
> http://media.msi.com/main.php?g2_itemId=139669
> 
> The higher resolution image reveals that the board is in fact completely infested with Niko-Semi mosfets, mostly in D-Pak form. "Military Class" indeed.


"Military Class? Of what military? lol! Of some third world underdeveloped nation maybe.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> "Military Class? Of what military? lol! Of some third world underdeveloped nation maybe.










They 've taken one of their worst models, slapped some audio caps and new USB and didn't have even the decency to stick a damn VRM heatsink on those crappy mosfets. How lame is that? You want to save Nikos from bankruptcy single-handed? Fine! But at least put a damn heatsink on them? How much could a little aluminum heatsink cost?


----------



## chrisjames61

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Undervolter*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They 've taken one of their worst models, slapped some audio caps and new USB and didn't have even the decency to stick a damn VRM heatsink on those crappy mosfets. How lame is that? You want to save Nikos from bankruptcy single-handed? Fine! But at least put a damn heatsink on them? How much could a little aluminum heatsink cost?


It makes me appreciate Gigabyte despite the flaky bios and ASUS more.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> It makes me appreciate Gigabyte despite the flaky bios and ASUS more.


I know what you mean...


----------



## Eldan

Gigabyte's BIOSes are one thing, but they do know how to make boards. I'd never buy an MSI thing since they're so keen on spontaneously combusting (really, the most MB burns you'll see are MSI).


----------



## cssorkinman

I've been beating the daylights out of MSI boards for over a dozen years. I have over 100 AMD builds out there using them - some run 24/7 and have for 6 years +. not a single VRM failure in the bunch.


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eldan*
> 
> Gigabyte's BIOSes are one thing, but they do know how to make boards. I'd never buy an MSI thing since they're so keen on spontaneously combusting (really, the most MB burns you'll see are MSI).


MSI definitely knows how to make motherboards, that´s not the issue here. The issue is they are constantly skimping in the critical areas of the VRM design, making the resulting product so weak that it´s operation relies only on the proper implementation of the protections (OTP & OCP). MSI motherboards are the only motherboards I´ve ever had to return to the manufacturer (by boxes / lots), because they couldn´t operate with the APUs they were designed for without overheating after < three minutes of CPU benchmarking (MSI A68HM-E33 + A8-7650K).

Take a look at MSI A85X-G65 FM2 board for example. I have nothing bad to say about the board. It uses a native 6+2 phase IR controller based digital VRM, Renesas fets all over the board, driven by IR digital gate drivers. The VRM is also very well cooled by a relatively large heatsink. Absolutely zero f*ckery going on anywhere on the board. Despite the board is designed for 95W APUs, it easily outperforms all of MSI AM3+ motherboards in terms of VRM structure or overall quality.

Also look at the MSI Lighting graphics cards, they are one of the best in the industry.


----------



## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Eldan*
> 
> Gigabyte's BIOSes are one thing, but they do know how to make boards. I'd never buy an MSI thing since they're so keen on spontaneously combusting (really, the most MB burns you'll see are MSI).
> 
> 
> 
> MSI definitely knows how to make motherboards, that´s not the issue here. The issue is they are constantly skimping in the critical areas of the VRM design, making the resulting product so weak that it´s operation relies only on the proper implementation of the protections (OTP & OCP). MSI motherboards are the only motherboards I´ve ever had to return to the manufacturer (by boxes / lots), because they couldn´t operate with the APUs they were designed for without overheating after < three minutes of CPU benchmarking (MSI A68HM-E33 + A8-7650K).
> 
> Take a look at *MSI A85X-G65 FM2* board for example. I have nothing bad to say about the board. It uses a native 6+2 phase IR controller based digital VRM, Renesas fets all over the board, driven by IR digital gate drivers. The VRM is also very well cooled by a relatively large heatsink. Absolutely zero f*ckery going on anywhere on the board. Despite the board is designed for 95W APUs, it easily outperforms all of MSI AM3+ motherboards in terms of VRM structure or overall quality.
> 
> Also look at the MSI Lighting graphics cards, they are one of the best in the industry.
Click to expand...

I have that board, it is a monster. You have to be very careful about the Digitall power settings or it can overvolt the crap out of the cpu. I have a 290X Lightning, also a monster







.

In the case of a 68hm-33 , I see they have a V-2 version now, hopefully they got their act together with that one.

I think MSI's biggest mistake is that they put too much of the responsibility for protecting their product on the user. When set up for overclocking, I don't recall ever seeing any of my MSI boards throttle , going back to the days of the K7 delta ISLR. Which frankly I quite enjoy ( I rather arrogantly think I know better how to decide when pushing too hard is really too hard







) but I take responsibility for monitoring temps etc and have yet to damage any of my board's power delivery systems.
I think a great number of the problems people have with their MSI boards is because they are familiar with the ASUS and GIGABYTE boards that will protect themselves in the event of overheating or overvoltage. They fire it up , apply overclocking settings with the assumption that it will behave as the other boards do "Oh it will be alright , if it gets too hot, it will just throttle". They won't ( my experience is with the upper tier boards), apparently they will either maintain the settings applied or die trying.


----------



## Offler

In regard of board M5A99FX PRO R2.0 I can provide one update:

VRM protection: Yes - Throttling

Board had 6+2 phases, question is... Does it have 3 channels or 6? I have a feeling its 3.

In regard whether this particular board is running into problems:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1318995/official-fx-8320-fx-8350-vishera-owners-club/33520#post_22110161

VRM on some Asus boards has a nice cooler on the top of the board, covering 8 chips. There is not many photos of those, and none where the markings can be read.

When you check the topic you will find that many Asus boards witch chipset 990x or fx have also 8 VRM related chips on the back of the mainboard. Not a new info for me (i noticed them) but ithe info that they can run that hot (over 110°C) explains some trouble with the board (like quite high sensitivity on ambient temperature).

So at info if the VRM is heatsinked... Answer is Yes and No at the same time. It seems that Mosfets on the top are, but voltage control chips on the bottom of the board are not.

On other hand I have to say that even when the cooling design for some Asus boards is flawed, and mainly 6+2 phase boards may suffer from heat issues, the board handles quite well even without additional mods to cooling, however - adding additional source of heat (such as R9-290x), may lead to unexpected need to increase CPU voltage, and same is true for higher ambient temperatures.


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> In regard of board M5A99FX PRO R2.0 I can provide one update:
> 
> VRM protection: Yes - Throttling
> 
> Board had 6+2 phases, question is... Does it have 3 channels or 6? I have a feeling its 3.
> 
> In regard whether this particular board is running into problems:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1318995/official-fx-8320-fx-8350-vishera-owners-club/33520#post_22110161
> 
> VRM on some Asus boards has a nice cooler on the top of the board, covering 8 chips. There is not many photos of those, and none where the markings can be read.
> 
> When you check the topic you will find that many Asus boards witch chipset 990x or fx have also 8 VRM related chips on the back of the mainboard. Not a new info for me (i noticed them) but ithe info that they can run that hot (over 110°C) explains some trouble with the board (like quite high sensitivity on ambient temperature).
> 
> So at info if the VRM is heatsinked... Answer is Yes and No at the same time. It seems that Mosfets on the top are, but voltage control chips on the bottom of the board are not.
> 
> On other hand I have to say that even when the cooling design for some Asus boards is flawed, and mainly 6+2 phase boards may suffer from heat issues, the board handles quite well even without additional mods to cooling, however - adding additional source of heat (such as R9-290x), may lead to unexpected need to increase CPU voltage, and same is true for higher ambient temperatures.


What do you mean with 6 or three channels? The VRM on this board is 6+2 phase, native. You can tell it from simply looking at the configuration. It uses *eight* CHL8510/IR3537 drivers which are single gate drivers. 8x1 means 8 native phases, and in this case they are split to 6+2 (VDDCR+VDDNB) configuration. Half of the low side fets being placed in the backside of the motherboard is not optimal, however their higher temperature shouldn't cause any issues since the current per each fet is rather low.

Even if the fets located behind the motherboard would overheat they shouldn't trip the OTP protection of the VRM. There is only a single NTC sensor per loop and it is supposed to be place on the front side of the motherboard, next to the inductors. So as long as the VRM region is otherwise sufficiently cooled, there shouldn't be any issues with the OTP tripping. Besides, as far as I know the OTP limit on these boards is "high enough" at stock. On other ASUS motherboards with similar or identical VRM structure, the CPU is forced to throttle when the VRM temperature reaches 118°C, while the forced shutdown (VR OFF) occurs at 138°C.


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> What do you mean with 6 or three channels? The VRM on this board is 6+2 phase, native. You can tell it from simply looking at the configuration. It uses *eight* CHL8510/IR3537 drivers which are single gate drivers. 8x1 means 8 native phases, and in this case they are split to 6+2 (VDDCR+VDDNB) configuration. Half of the low side fets being placed in the backside of the motherboard is not optimal, however their higher temperature shouldn't cause any issues since the current per each fet is rather low.
> 
> Even if the fets located behind the motherboard would overheat they shouldn't trip the OTP protection of the VRM. There is only a single NTC sensor per loop and it is supposed to be place on the front side of the motherboard, next to the inductors. So as long as the VRM region is otherwise sufficiently cooled, there shouldn't be any issues with the OTP tripping. Besides, as far as I know the OTP limit on these boards is "high enough" at stock. On other ASUS motherboards with similar or identical VRM structure, the CPU is forced to throttle when the VRM temperature reaches 118°C, while the forced shutdown (VR OFF) occurs at 138°C.


I found screen showing 8 driver chips just few minutes ago.

I did some heavy-duty stress test via OCCT and it caused CPU throttle to 800MHz, so i guess 118°c has been archieved. Anyway it seem that such thing as a graphic card R9-290x placed next to the chipset cooler on this board is affecting VRM temps so badly it has higher impact on system stability than OCCT stress test alone.

By the way I checked datasheet for the mosfets. Manufacturer gives specifications for 25°C and 100°C, while on the screens i posted earlier is clear temperature over 110. I would not expect some immediate trouble for that, I would just keep the temps within tested boundaries. Any kind of passive cooler should do the job or at least fan placed under the CPU.


----------



## The Stilt

As said, there is no individual temperature feedback from the fets. These controllers support a single NTC per loop (one for VDDCR and one for VDDNB). If you are hitting the VRM temperature throttling limit, it only means that your VRM region is extremely poorly cooled. The factory VRM heatsink is only designed for stock operation. When you run the board with overclocked FX-6K or FX-8K CPU, you must provide direct airflow to the VRM. The same applies on all motherboards, no matter what the manufacturer or the VRM configuration is. If your CPU consumes 150W of power the VRM will be dissipating > 26.5W of heat, depeding on the used settings (VRM efficiency). It is impossible to dissipate that much of heat from heatsink this small, without direct airflow.

Also, are you certain that you are not exceeding the CPU temperature limits (70 for tCTL / package, 70°C for SBI-TSI at default)?

Also the 4937N low-side fets used on this board are rated for 150°C TjMax. At that temperature they are derated to zero current / power, but at 100°C these fets are rated for 10.9A (continuous) each. Since there are twelve of them, you will be able to sustain ~131A even if they all were operating at 100°C (which won't be the case).


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> As said, there is no individual temperature feedback from the fets. These controllers support a single NTC per loop (one for VDDCR and one for VDDNB). If you are hitting the VRM temperature throttling limit, it only means that your VRM region is extremely poorly cooled. The factory VRM heatsink is only designed for stock operation. When you run the board with overclocked FX-6K or FX-8K CPU, you must provide direct airflow to the VRM. The same applies on all motherboards, no matter what the manufacturer or the VRM configuration is. If your CPU consumes 150W of power the VRM will be dissipating > 26.5W of heat, depeding on the used settings (VRM efficiency). It is impossible to dissipate that much of heat from heatsink this small, without direct airflow.
> 
> Also, are you certain that you are not exceeding the CPU temperature limits (70 for tCTL / package, 70°C for SBI-TSI at default)?
> 
> Also the 4937N low-side fets used on this board are rated for 150°C TjMax. At that temperature they are derated to zero current / power, but at 100°C these fets are rated for 10.9A (continuous) each. Since there are twelve of them, you will be able to sustain ~131A even if they all were operating at 100°C (which won't be the case).


CPU package was on 70°C, cores on 55, and I am talking Phenom II x6 1090 @ 3800Mhz. CPU temps during the stress test were OK, VRM temps certainly not.

Because the voltage was perfectly flat during all the stress tests, and I positively identified as a source of instability ambient temperature (not even the heat from VRM itself), it indicates that current is not stable.

( I was thinking about why is system temperature-sensitive and higher Vcore can fix it, but you hinted me the answer...

Asus certifies this mainboard for "220W CPUs" which I take with a grain of salt. CPU at 3800Mhz. I dont believe that at this frequency it should need more than 150-170 watts, while the VRM output should be somewhere between 180 and 200 watts depending of the temperature of the mosfets. Its certainly lower, and it explains why the system is failing and why higher Vcore can apparently fix it.)


----------



## The Stilt

With 32nm FX part I could have believed the VRM was overheating. But if that is supposed to be the case with a 45nm part, which by the process nature alone draws lower current (at higher voltages) than the 32nm FXs... Not going to happen unless you're running in ~45°C ambients, water cooled and without any airflow to the VRM region. On 45nm tCTL activation limit (CPU thermal throttling) is 70°C, just like on FXs.


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> With 32nm FX part I could have believed the VRM was overheating. But if that is supposed to be the case with a 45nm part, which by the process nature alone draws lower current (at higher voltages) than the 32nm FXs... Not going to happen unless you're running in ~45°C ambients, water cooled and without any airflow to the VRM region. On 45nm tCTL activation limit (CPU thermal throttling) is 70°C, just like on FXs.


There is an airflow near the VRM region, temperature in the room is not hitting 40°C (as last year summer), but right next to chipset/vrm cooler is a GPU which normally operates at 85°C-92°C.

Edit:
I did some calculations. Those are not right (as the temperature is a dynamic factor), but if estimated power consumption on 3800Mhz is 168 watts, and VRM can deliver 148-273 watt @ 1,425v depending on temperature (considering the worst case of 110°C and ideal scenario of 25°C).


----------



## miklkit

I am not familiar with that motherboard but i know my Sapphire 290X puts out a lot of exhaust heat too. I moved it down to a lower 16X slot and that helped a lot. Does your M5 have a lower 16X slot?


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> I am not familiar with that motherboard but i know my Sapphire 290X puts out a lot of exhaust heat too. I moved it down to a lower 16X slot and that helped a lot. Does your M5 have a lower 16X slot?


It does but I am using the PCI port right under it, My board is almost same as Asus Sabertooth (slots, bios), just different colors, 2 less CPU VRM phases and no heatspreader on the bottom side of the board.

Also some new info:

LLC : Ultra High works. Extreme does not. 130% current capabilty works, 140% does not.

I checked the circuits with a colleague from work. He told me that the mosfets on the bottom of the board are most likely "high side switch" and those should get less load compared to "low side switches". If the temperatures measured on that mosfets are real (113°C) then those run out of spec, and they are most likely delivering current of 8A instead of 10A.

It would explain few things:
a) High-power features of Digi+ not working properly
b) Coil whine
c) Everything related to CPU OC.

I checked the mosfets, they are running quite hot, but not as much it would cause this kind of trouble... In any case. Sabertooth or ROG (both 8+2) can deliver up to 60 more watts compared to M5A990FX (6+2).


----------



## felix

Planning to buy a board for a secondary/benching system.

Choices are a used ASUS CHVF-Z and a new Gigabyte 990FX-Gaming.

CPU will be a good 1090T that i have and i know that is a fairly good piece.

Which is stronger in terms of VRM circuitry and stable power on CPU,CPU-NB and Ram? Which is considered to be better choice in terms of BIOS ability?

Thank you in advance for your help!

EDIT : Got the Gigabyte,if i am not satisfied, i will sell it and buy a used CHVF-Z...


----------



## Bubblewhale

I got a M5A97 R2.0, it's kinda a bad board to OC.
Managed to get 1.28V 3.5GHZ before but i need 1.41V to get 4.3GHZ stable on my 8320.
It really helps to have the fans on the board, like this.
Northbridge gets really hot on board and there's no temp sensor for it.
I think my VRMs are fine, but more of Northbridge temp problems that holds me back on my overclocks.

Plus the M5A97 R2.0 lacks some overclocking features like DIGI power tuning or so, so setting LLC is rip and can only go 2400MHZ max on NB.


----------



## harnish

by looking at this chart i see as the msi 970 gaming to be a decent board to run a fx 8320 am i right? or am i reading chart wrong ? can pick this board up for 85$ cdn which is good for over priced computer parts here in canada


----------



## MishelLngelo

It's a 125W processor but at 99% of the time it won't be using more than 100W so it does work good but OC is questionable.


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *harnish*
> 
> by looking at this chart i see as the msi 970 gaming to be a decent board to run a fx 8320 am i right? or am i reading chart wrong ? can pick this board up for 85$ cdn which is good for over priced computer parts here in canada


The chart is mistaken for the MSI 970 Gaming, it's 6+2 phase, not 8+2. I have PMed the OP to change it, but he is probably away and can't update it. The MSI 970 Gaming has lots of mosfets, but from the arguably worst mosfet manufacturer. Some motherboards here in the forum go to 4.5, one died at 4.7 or 4.8, some others had problems to go beyond 4Ghz, some motherboards are known to leak oil from the VRM thermal pad. So, there seems to be a quality control variation. If you don't plan overclocks beyond 4.4, it should be good, unless you get unlucky, like in the cases i mentioned. WIth motherboards, usually, it's more than ever true the saying "you get what you paid for".


----------



## harnish

thanks i ended up going with a gigabyte ga-990fxa ud3


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> Sabertooth or ROG (both 8+2) can deliver up to 60 more watts compared to M5A990FX (6+2).


What about when the Crosshair is cooled with the EK VRM waterblock?


----------



## BulletBait

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> What about when the Crosshair is cooled with the EK VRM waterblock?


That waterblock was EOLed and discontinued. The only current AM3+ chipset waterblock is the Watercool Heatkiller. It also comes with a SB block, but you'll never use it if you have a GPU.

Also, that block requires 'modification.' You have to mill a portion out of the NB end because the new CH V-Zs started coming with an extra choke right in the middle of where it passed.

Here's a picture I took of that 'modification.' This is the thread for reference on AM3+ mobo waterblock, Find the EK Waterblock Challenge.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BulletBait*
> 
> That waterblock was EOLed and discontinued. The only current AM3+ chipset waterblock is the Watercool Heatkiller. It also comes with a SB block, but you'll never use it if you have a GPU.
> 
> Also, that block requires 'modification.' You have to mill a portion out of the NB end because the new CH V-Zs started coming with an extra choke right in the middle of where it passed.


I know that. But it doesn't answer my question.


----------



## BulletBait

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *superstition222*
> 
> I know that. But it doesn't answer my question.


Eh, I think I got maybe an extra 10-15W on stable stressed clocks over that. You could probably achieve the same or close to goal with a good 40mm fan blowing on it. One of the reasons I did it is because I looped everything which means I had no fans blowing across the mobo or circulating air except the radiators at the top and bottom and exhaust at the back. Not very conducive to managing temps if nothing is blowing towards it at all and that rear exhaust isn't nearly enough.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BulletBait*
> 
> Eh, I think I got maybe an extra 10-15W on stable stressed clocks over that. You could probably achieve the same or close to goal with a good 40mm fan blowing on it.


Maybe at quite high RPM. It took a lot of RPM and noise to cool the VRM sink on my UD3P down with a small fan. I used the stock cooler from the 8320E and to make the VRM reasonably cool at just 4.4 GHz when doing Prime the noise level from the fan was higher than I thought was comfortable. Better boards have larger sinks and more MOSFETs but a 40mm fan doesn't cover a lot of surface area. I found that with the UD3P a 140mm fan is more optimal, to not only blow air onto the sink but also to exhaust it. Having it on an angle mostly blowing out of the case seemed to be the most optimal. I would be very surprised to find that watercooling that board would not dramatically improve the ability of the VRMs to be kept cool at higher clocks.


----------



## BulletBait

It does, but it really only helps if you're into FSB overclocking and push the volts on your NB and VDDA. If you're talking (which is kind of what I assumed, sorry if I was wrong) strictly CPU voltage and settings, the gain is marginal at best.


----------



## tashcz

Any info on Asus Aura 970? What kind of MOSFETs are there, can someone tell me the specific fet used? What's to be expected from this board?


----------



## Undervolter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tashcz*
> 
> Any info on Asus Aura 970? What kind of MOSFETs are there, can someone tell me the specific fet used? What's to be expected from this board?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1591829/fx-8370-and-pro-gaming-aura-asus-mb-overclocking

http://www.overclock.net/t/1587222/asus-970-pro-gaming-aura/20#post_24912750

Complete article by our own member Johan:

http://www.overclockers.com/asus-970-pro-gaming-aura-motherboard-review/


----------



## tashcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Undervolter*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1591829/fx-8370-and-pro-gaming-aura-asus-mb-overclocking
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1587222/asus-970-pro-gaming-aura/20#post_24912750
> 
> Complete article by our own member Johan:
> 
> http://www.overclockers.com/asus-970-pro-gaming-aura-motherboard-review/


What I'm interested in is are they using same VRM fets as Sabertooth R3.0 since they're both new boards and if it's a good choice to get this instead of the Sabertooth R3.0. It's double the price. I see the reviews are good but I also know that one more fet can give some 25A more to the CPU that might be crucial if you're going to 4.7GHz+.


----------



## tashcz

Sorry for the double post, I've found out that the Aura MOSFETs are 4C09B, and from datasheets I can only find 4C09N, which provides 52 amps. There is 7x2 of those mosfets from the picture of the review website. Each phase has 2 of them, so is it 104amps or 52 amps per phase? 7 of them would make 364A in the best case, so at 1.5V that should make well above 500W to deliver to the CPU. Thing is, that heatsink looks really, really small. Not sure if 2x40mm would do the job cooling it.

So in my case, chasing after 4.7GHz +, the Aura or R3.0?

EDIT: Found out that the Sabertooth R3.0 uses the same MOSFETs from the picture of them on the website:


----------



## strike105x

Hi does anyone have any info on the gigabyte 990X gaming SLI VRM's ? How good are they for overclocking...


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *strike105x*
> 
> Hi does anyone have any info on the gigabyte 990X gaming SLI VRM's ? How good are they for overclocking...


Doubled 4+1 phase analog VRM. Not particularly good. 970A-UD3P has a better VRM (doubled 4+1 phase digital).


----------



## harnish

i have the gigabyte 990fxa ud7 board and it seems pretty good


----------



## miklkit

@ Tashcz I can't help you with the Aura but I do know that at 1.5 volts the VRMs on the Sabertooth can no longer supply the CPU with the required power at 82C and it destabilizes. That is one of my thermal limits.


----------



## felix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Stilt*
> 
> Doubled 4+1 phase analog VRM. Not particularly good. 970A-UD3P has a better VRM (doubled 4+1 phase digital).


I hope that this is not the case also with it's sibling, the GA-990FX-Gaming.


----------



## The Stilt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *felix*
> 
> I hope that this is not the case also with it's sibling, the GA-990FX-Gaming.


It's not (4+1 phase, properly doubled digital VRM).
http://www.overclock.net/t/1615374/choosing-between-the-gigabyte-990x-gaming-sli-gigabyte-990fxa-ud3-r5-asus-m5a99fx-pro/0_50#post_25632792


----------



## strike105x

I'm kind of curious what kind of 4+1 VRM's the GA-78LMT-USB3 has, despite its design i know someone who kept it with an FX6300 at 4.8 Ghz 1.57V for at least over an year, i knew it was the most decent OC friendly board for budget builds but i didn't think it was this op... I also have a variant of it GA-78LMT-S2PV (same as the USB3 one just without the USB 3.0 ports) and it ran for a few years my FX4300 at 4.6 Ghz (still runs fine







).


----------



## tashcz

You may think it runs fine, but it required 1.57V for that overclock, so it's a no go







Looks like a smaller DS3P, trust me, it's not what you want for an overclock, and you'd probably fail stability tests.


----------



## strike105x

No, i was just curios of the VRM's, i just got an Asus and have no plans on using the GA-78LMT-S2PV anymore, since the Asus definitely supports my hardware better and i don't have to worry about VRM's (even if my FX4300 was stable at 4.6 Ghz for over two years i still was worried that one day they will fail me, i can get pass that now







).

Now back to my previous question as weird as it sounds his overclock is rock stable, and has passed hours of stress testing and is used for emulation, (emulator can be very sensitive to OC), not to mention its been at least an year or two since he had the OC, Considering my less agressive OC of 4.6 Ghz i thought that maybe there's something to the VRM's, though as you make it sound it looks more like he won a VRM lottery then anything else lol.


----------



## xSpartan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *strike105x*
> 
> I'm kind of curious what kind of 4+1 VRM's the GA-78LMT-USB3 has, despite its design i know someone who kept it with an FX6300 at 4.8 Ghz 1.57V for at least over an year, i knew it was the most decent OC friendly board for budget builds but i didn't think it was this op... I also have a variant of it GA-78LMT-S2PV (same as the USB3 one just without the USB 3.0 ports) and it ran for a few years my FX4300 at 4.6 Ghz (still runs fine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).


I found this (GA-78LMT-USB3 rev6.0):

https://cxzoid.blogspot.com/2015/09/gigabyte-78lmt-usb3-review.html

CPU VCore
- Richtek RT8868 4+1 phase controller
- 4 true phases
- 2 Renesas K0393 Low side MOSFETs rated for 40A at 25C
- 2 Renesas K03B7 High side MOSFETs rated for 30A at 25C
- 680nH inductors
- 38.4g Heatsink
- 270KHz to 330Khz
- 5K rated capacitors however they are very low capacity
- LLC Auto/Regular/Extreme
- OCP(around 90A) OVP
CPU NB
- 1 true phase
- 1 Renesas K03B7 High side MOSFETs rated for 30A at 25C
- 1 Renesas K03B7 Low side MOSFETs rated for 30A at 25C
- 270KHz to 330Khz
- OCP OVP


----------



## drSeehas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chrisjames61*
> 
> ... It makes me appreciate ... ASUS more.


ASUS has motherboards without VRM heatsink too: M5A97 PLUS and M5A97 LE R2.0 (besides the 760G/780L/SB710 motherboards).


----------



## jodiekins

could someone give me a good fm2+ micro atx mobo with heatsinked vrms that isnt too expensive, thanks!!


----------



## miklkit

There are some out there, but they are out of stock. With Ryzen coming soon there is no way of knowing if any will be restocked.

That said, this is a nice one. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813132055


----------



## bardacuda

Is this epic thread going to be updated with AM4 boards?

EDIT: In case anyone else came here wondering the same thing I found this thread which seems to have quite a bit of good info so far, mostly thanks to @AlphaC.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1624051/vrm-on-the-new-am4-motherboards

It's a work in progress, so the info is not all neatly compiled into tables in the OP like it is here, so you'll have to do some reading, but it's still under 100 posts long atm. Long story short right now is: the two boards with the highest quality VRM design are ASRock X370 Fatality Pro and ASRock X370 Taichi.

For myself, like the OP there, I am looking more for a mid-range board (something like ASUS Prime B350-Plus) but with a beefy power system, but there is not much info on B350 yet.


----------



## tashcz

We could start filling it up if the OP is still active.

Thing is, this thread existed for us that wanted to squeeze out the most out of FX's. Since Ryzen sucks at overclocking, I don't think AM4 database would be as popular as AM3+ one is.


----------



## superstition222

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tashcz*
> 
> Since Ryzen sucks at overclocking


The Stilt warned us about that. At least we're fortunate that the level of pessimism he had didn't turn out to be accurate, possibly, in part at least, because of the delay from a Q4 2016 release to the March 2017 release to improve the process. Otherwise, Zen would have been mostly a flop on the desktop due to very low clocks. Zen isn't the all-encompassing perfect product but it's a solid improvement over FX. Being 10% smaller than Intel's die also helps AMD's profitability in spaces where Zen fits well, even though it comes at the cost of things like AVX-2 parity which narrows its applicability.

I'm really looking forward to Zen+. Hopefully AMD will draw even with Intel in the remaining weak spots, like AVX-2. AMD has already scored a major victory by making Zen a solid enough gaming CPU (minimum framerates compared with FX) while also making it a bargain for most "serious" programs. It will be interesting, though, to see if AVX-2 can be parlayed into a significant Intel advantage as it appeared to be in one Pov-Ray (_OMG! AVX-2 Now!_ version) test I saw (albeit likely with Zen's memory being hobbled to 2133 or something silly).


----------



## tashcz

I'm not judging Ryzen as-is, it's pretty good for what it's made. It's not like you need 16 threads to game on. And most of people that were gonna buy a chip compared to the 1800X, the 6900K, probably weren't gonna buy it for gaming. Reason I'm mentioning gaming is that it's most noticable there. I'd get Ryzen now if I felt the need for it, but right now my OC'd 8370E is pretty much on par on gaming, and I got 8 threads for my multitasking needs. I wasn't gonna buy Intel soon either.

But thing is, for Ryzen to be in this thread, first we need to see what difference do the lower-phased mobo's have on overclocking Ryzen. With FX's, it was just "give us more phases". To me, it seems Ryzen is thermally limited much more than power limited. We'll have to wait till shops get stock of different mobo's for Ryzen, since in Serbia, since launch, all you could get is DDR4 and a CPU, there are NO BOARDS for Ryzen yet here, with an exception of a uATX B350M. Once the stock starts filling up, we'll see what the phases will be on Ryzen, though as I've seen, it's 10+2 on the Crosshair, the Aorus has something like that, and the lower-end ones have 4+1 or some real bad power delivery. I was counting the number of chokes, and that's what I've got. I really wonder how 16 thread 1800X would do on a 4-phase motherboard.


----------



## MishelLngelo

We in Serbia are pretty limited with new technology, availability and price wise. In couple of month should be able to get some more choices. That B350M is not a choice for top end Ryzens. It's so limited tha it shouldn't have been brought to the market until much later when R3 comes out.
Hoping to replace my main system (FX6350 @4.8GHz) with R5 1600(x) so by the time it comes out many MBs should be available.
That brings me to need for a MB with good VRM because I don't think I ever run a PC without OCing it at list a bit. VRM operation has changes as of lately so a complete new list should be started because just number and quality of Mosfets, and chokes is not a primary concern.


----------



## superstition222

I just read some Zen reviews that suggest its AVX-2 performance isn't so bad.


----------



## NightAntilli

Will we be including the AM4 boards on here?


----------



## MishelLngelo

‚You can bet that all the overclockers will be paying close attention to VRMs, I'm just afraid that manufacturers may slack a bit with VRM new processors being lighter on power requirements and TPD. VRM temperature and system stability will tell the tale.


----------



## NightAntilli

They can't slack too much though... The lower voltage means more current is required, so the VRMs need to be up to snuff for good overclocking.


----------



## MishelLngelo

Not necessarily, if power requirement (in Watts) is reduced + lower Voltage that means current (in Amps) is lower too because of W=A*V. Inefficiency part is TDP. Granted all together it's not much lower but still. MFGs are always itching to put less if they can.


----------



## bardacuda

Just from what I have read so far, it seems that the board can mean the difference between getting to 3.8-39GHz or getting 4.0-4.1 or even 4.2GHz. Personally I am looking at getting a Ryzen 1700 (non-X) paired with a B350 with good OC potential for maximum performance for minimum dollars. I don't really care about SLI or a couple USB/SATA ports.


----------



## MishelLngelo

Only "B" MBs I have seen by now are not very good in VRM department. Looks like "X" are only ones to be good at OC.


----------



## miklkit

For me this database has been very useful for finding which motherboards have issues and which ones are solid. You all just KNOW that some manufacturers will cut corners and sell boards that will overheat and possibly catch on fire when OCed. For this reason I do hope this database is updated to AM4.


----------



## bardacuda

So...while the thread I linked earlier has lots of good info, it is spread out over many hundreds of posts.
However, the list in the OP of this thread from a german forum made by @br0da is fairly complete and sums everything up nicely.

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html


----------



## MishelLngelo

So I was at least partially right, only "X" boards are worthy of proper OC (for now).


----------



## bardacuda

Well the thing is...Ryzen can't really go above 3.9GHz without higher voltages that would probably be no good for 24/7. So actually B350 boards could be a great cost-effective option for anyone who isn't looking for the highest bench numbers and just wants a nice ~3.6-3.8GHz daily clock.


----------



## Nighthog

Well if you don't mind 70-80C+ VRM temperatures under stress tests with your OC B350 can work... Though I wonder how long the board might last with the high voltages and temps when you crank above 3.8Ghz.


----------



## miklkit

That is the norm for FX boards. My OC fails when the VRMs hit 82C as they can't handle the loads at that temp. How long do they last like that? 2 years and counting for me while some others only last a few weeks depending on how cheap they went with the board.


----------



## MishelLngelo

That's why I put a fan over VRM, it can help tremendously. A 50mm fan keeps it down to low '40s even with FX at 4.8GHz. Will se what will happen with Ryzen systems, I'm still waiting for R5 so there will be enough time to choose MB.


----------



## Mgrandy

asrock fata1ty 970 performance 3.1, fx 9370

8+2 but says supports 64 gig ram so hard to believe








yes it supports 220w

erm still trying to keep the board cool though but getting there
maybe if i invest £300 more into cooling i might achieve the max of 6.3ghz it says is max in bios. cough er no

heres a few temps to chuck in to the mix for you

can i recommend ? well, soon see

Start time: 2017_03_19 21:15:02
End time: 2017_03_19 21:31:39
Sample time interval(second):1

TMP

Min Max Average
Core0 32.12 51.50 47.04
Core1 32.12 51.50 47.04
Core2 32.12 51.50 47.04
Core3 32.12 51.50 47.04
Core4 32.12 51.50 47.04
Core5 32.12 51.50 47.04
Core6 32.12 51.50 47.04
Core7 32.12 51.50 47.04
TMPIN0 37.85 39.25 38.57

FAN

Min Max Average
FAN3 2123 2206 2153


----------



## bardacuda

So TMPIN0 is your VRM temps? 39.25 is extremely cool for that CPU under load.


----------



## Mgrandy

well if you look at my pics in build you see i cable tie a 40mm aska led fan there just to help but really the 59 cfm nzxt fan 190mm Does the job but it still a concern. thats kinda my next question lol some times this just dont stop going up its kinda scary 

i have another aska but the stock alu cooler just dont seem to be great might be time to invest in a full loop my cpu temps are just epic thou just them dyam vrm


----------



## bardacuda

Most mosfets won't fail until +100°C temps and can should be ok to run continuously at anything below 60 or 70°C. That said I'm not an expert and don't know exactly which chips your board uses either. But 40°C is definitely nothing to worry about.


----------



## Mgrandy

from what ive read they were used on a gigabyte board but has thus since been taken off production so not much info on them is known, erm well this tends to go up and down. real fast like to fast for my liking. cooling cpu i dont mind it as water cooled but an air cooled heak sink with no fan is eek. heat sink fluctuating as much is a bit off putting but like they say we only worry about them because we can see them lol maybe time to invest in a infa red sensor probe. ive also been looking into universal water cooling blocks too due to no company taking on the task


----------



## bardacuda

Yes well you should worry about them with a chip like that especially...and actually are you sure TMPIN0 is your VRMs? 40° after 15 mins full load just doesn't seem right. What is your TMPIN1/2/3/etc at idle and load?


----------



## Mgrandy

well if i put the room heater on this gets upto at least 43 and still goes ive seen it higher than my cpu most times which is the bit i find scary, ik from the amd A10 6800k which i clocked at 6.3ghz these things get hot very hot and ive had the h100 since then. as far as other tmpin sensors go there aint any. the other temp monitors chuck out just junk and ive tried alot only the amd overdrive seems to give me the acceptable temps. ive even tried a few temp widgets lol like hwmonitor erm and a few others ive tried so far

atm im only sitting at 4ghz just because of the bad press these boards got too but from cpu temps honestly if /but/maybe the vrm holds out this could go quite far. having the Amd A10 6800k i assumed it would be double but that used to run at 70 deg cpu constant this seems to run alot low , mind i do have top quality paste

like i said, ill trust somewhat in an infrared probe lol

anther bit of useful information is these throttle after 57 deg so anything below that is great in the whole fx9000 line according to amd website.

https://community.amd.com/thread/197299


----------



## Mgrandy

ugh, coz im new links have to be approved answer is hopefully on route as its late im off. but in case it dont get approved. i stated that these fx9000 throttle according to amd official link bla bla bla at 57 deg and above
tmp's there is only 1 sensor on this board and ive seen it higher than my cpu on more than one occasion. ive also tried many temp monitors with only amd overdrive that works so far

but ive seen it at 45 and im honestly not even putting much load and quite a bit higher almost 50 when i didnt have the case fan and extra hooked up


----------



## bardacuda

Ok that's a little more in line with what I would expect. Still though even at 50° I'd say you're doing fine. No need to throw $300 at it with VRM temps like that.


----------



## miklkit

That motherboard does not have a vrm temperature sensor. The only FX boards that do have them are the ASUS Sabertooth and the MSI GD80. If you want to know how hot the VRMs are getting then invest in an Infra Red Thermometer for $20-25. Here is my Sabertooth when it is idling and the VRMs are sitting at 43C. 

The Asrock boards have a reputation for running hot when pushed and need lots of extra cooling because they use a thinner PCB than the others, so can not absorb the heat everything puts out. That one sensor you are seeing sounds like the cpu socket temps. It should be about 10C hotter than the cpu when at full loads.


----------



## Mgrandy

honestly the tmp0 or what ever actually. seems like motherboard temp on a whole not specific to any sensor for socket etc.like i said im going to invest in a red probe just to be sure. as to the touch all nb and sb along with vrm feel hot. the sb youll be lucky if the heat sink is 10mm tall but almost 75mm long and wide. you do get what you pay for so the money ive saved i need to at least invest somewhere else. kind of like the amd a10 6800k that cash i saved i spent on a recon H100. yes the sb is only 10mm tall and really dont run graphics off it etc so really the last one i would check , im more a nb /vrm user if that makes sense.
on my old asus p5nd32-sli deluxe had a heat pipe from from vrm to nb along with 2 board standard fans that used to clip on and that was running a intel Pentium D 3.4 socket 775 (SL9QQ) 95w TDP so ive known since then these get real hot and im guessing so have the companys. just like i said you get what you pay for. even way b4 that my old 0.833 ghz copper processor, yes i did say "copper" used to run hot lol but in that respect it was copper. here come flashbacks of voodoo2 16mb card and sim city 2000 lol pc half hanging out window just to keep nice and chilled

ps i love your picture frame and so true


----------



## miklkit

LOL. And to think that this one makes that one look like a genius.

Have you tried HWINFO64? It's free and works better with AMD than HWMonitor. It might tell you what that sensor is for.


----------



## Mgrandy

in any case ran for a good 8 hours, played a bit of doom BFG just to run it in along with a bit of gta3. little bit of streaming etc and all seems good really going to have to give it a challenge next time

as far as the board goes it seems solid enough but time will no doubt tell only thing i have had issue with is hd audio header been right at the back of the board and not at the bottom like the rest. with these temps i should really be overclocking it but cant afford to break atm lol

Start time: 2017_03_23 15:56:08
End time: 2017_03_23 23:26:14
Sample time interval(second):1

TMP

Min Max Average
Core0 29.38 49.25 42.44
Core1 29.38 49.25 42.44
Core2 29.38 49.25 42.44
Core3 29.38 49.25 42.44
Core4 29.38 49.25 42.44
Core5 29.38 49.25 42.44
Core6 29.38 49.25 42.44
Core7 29.38 49.25 42.44
TMPIN0 40.92 44.12 42.91

FAN

Min Max Average
FAN3 2123 2220 2178

room temp is roughly 22-30

Edit:- took the dive installed fallout 4 getting a nice 50 fps on 1600x900 maxed we rx 460 4gbs temps and board still seem great!!


----------



## mixsetup

hi there what is the max VRM for ASRock 990fx extreme9?

I have VRM1 and VRM2 detected in AIDA64 and it says VRM1 71c and VRM2 25 and this is just with the browser going.
Oh it has been on all day.


----------



## miklkit

Well......They start physically melting after 110C or so. The cooler the better.

71C while browsing is way too hot. That is stress testing temperatures. A fan blowing on them will help but that is very high temps for browsing. Possibly the thermal pad under the heat sink is degraded and needs replacing.


----------



## mixsetup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> Possibly the thermal pad under the heat sink is degraded and needs replacing.


That's pretty bad as i just bought it new last month to go with the FX9590 I had sitting on my desk. Had the Asrock Fatal1ty pro which was a great board till it all died thought this one would be as good but so far this VRM thing is crap. Just have an old CPU fan blowing on to the VRM at the moment I will buy a decent slim line one and put it behind the board to see if that helps.
At least I have an idea of when it will melt.
Thanks

Okay so I tried testing with a fan behind the motherboard like some people say to do. First I tried some cheap generic brand and it dropped a few degrees.
Then I tried one of these EK Furious Vardar Fan F5 120mm 3000RPM as I have not put them on my radiator yet and crap it dropped down to 51c and was still going down.

I know what I need to do now is a case mod cut a hole in it for a fan or buy another case with room to fit one. Buy a slim case fan the best I can get and mount it on the back behind the motherboard and I'll be set wow 20c drop


----------



## Mgrandy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mixsetup*
> 
> That's pretty bad as i just bought it new last month to go with the FX9590 I had sitting on my desk. Had the Asrock Fatal1ty pro which was a great board till it all died thought this one would be as good but so far this VRM thing is crap. Just have an old CPU fan blowing on to the VRM at the moment I will buy a decent slim line one and put it behind the board to see if that helps.
> At least I have an idea of when it will melt.
> Thanks
> 
> Okay so I tried testing with a fan behind the motherboard like some people say to do. First I tried some cheap generic brand and it dropped a few degrees.
> Then I tried one of these EK Furious Vardar Fan F5 120mm 3000RPM as I have not put them on my radiator yet and crap it dropped down to 51c and was still going down.
> 
> I know what I need to do now is a case mod cut a hole in it for a fan or buy another case with room to fit one. Buy a slim case fan the best I can get and mount it on the back behind the motherboard and I'll be set wow 20c drop


if you read the req on amd page it does tell you you need 33cfm fan blowing on your vrm so can see why the ek worked. thats probably how the last board died also because you didnt read the requirements 71 is way too hot for browsing.


----------



## Zhany

Has anyone seen any temp readings on the Gigabyte K5 or K7 VRMs? I've been searching around without much luck on getting numbers.


----------



## mixsetup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mgrandy*
> 
> if you read the req on amd page it does tell you you need 33cfm fan blowing on your vrm so can see why the ek worked. thats probably how the last board died also because you didnt read the requirements 71 is way too hot for browsing.


Hi put the EK against the back of the board. The last board had a FX 8150 so no where near the heat of this one. I will make sure the slim fan I get is 33 cfm thank you for that.


----------



## Mgrandy

back aint really ideal as the chips are on the front but still should help considering you had nothing before, a 200mm side case fan should kick out 60 cfm or there abouts. i still have another 5 cfm fan to make sure air is moving 100% of the time over that part of my board seen as how the 200mm is a good 6" away
The fx 9570 is like an fx 8150 but already overclocked requiring more volts than a standard fx8150 and in-turn more heat. i would say its more like an amd10 6800k (x 2) as for a 4 core cpu, this things heat was much on par at 120tdp or so just didnt require the vrm fan as was pulling alot lower volts across the board.

dont be worried about what it should or shouldnt be the cooler you keep it the longer your board will last. say they are rated 100 deg c max op temp. run it constant 24/7 at this temp and im sure it wont last a week. im sure the capacitors alone are rated 240 deg and they feed volts to the chips. so just worry about the chips. but the cooler you get them the better if your getting 85+ deg c its time to look at better cooling as your close to max temp. if your 50-80 on the vrm just forget about it.

if you wanted the chips next to the capacitors should have markings type them into google and then you get the spreadsheet on the chip MOSFET i think its called.. anyway capacitor are the tall tube like things next to the main chips (mosfets) so anywhere you see both you need to keep cool.
The Vrm(Voltage Regulator Module) is just the CPU's supply of power so the main one to keep cool.

once you get the chip number should have a data sheet here which will tell you temps
http://search.datasheetcatalog.net/key/MOSFET
 at 36000 mosfets it might take time to go through manually


----------



## br0da

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zhany*
> 
> Has anyone seen any temp readings on the Gigabyte K5 or K7 VRMs? I've been searching around without much luck on getting numbers.


Take a look at this: https://www.legitreviews.com/thermal-image-testing-on-amd-x370-motherboards-by-asus-gigabyte-and-msi_193006


----------



## mixsetup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mgrandy*
> 
> once you get the chip number should have a data sheet here which will tell you temps
> http://search.datasheetcatalog.net/key/MOSFET
> at 36000 mosfets it might take time to go through manually


Have a fan off the FX8150's fan/heatsink temporarily inside the case. It dropped the 20c with the fan at the back of the board.
I plan on getting something to make it permanent and will still put another at the rear of the case.

I think one of the problems is no room behind the motherboard so no airflow there.
I would like to get a new case to let more air in but as I have spent so much on my watercooling I think I will mod this one.
Thanks I will get the numbers and have a look on that site. Never new the 9590 and this board would get so hot.

If I could find decent blocks for it I would water cool them.

Thanks.


----------



## TekG

Minding on a fan over vrm, someone have nice tips to give me








Thank you!


----------



## miklkit

"back aint really ideal as the chips are on the front"

Nope. The VRMs are wider than the board and are therefore on both sides of the PCB. They only have a heat sink on one side. I have recorded my VRMs at 43C on the backside while it is doing nothing.

For water cooling fans on both sides is ideal.


----------



## mixsetup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> "back aint really ideal as the chips are on the front"
> 
> Nope. The VRMs are wider than the board and are therefore on both sides of the PCB. They only have a heat sink on one side. I have recorded my VRMs at 43C on the backside while it is doing nothing.
> 
> For water cooling fans on both sides is ideal.


Both sides no wonder the temp dropped so much from the fan at the back when the other VRM2 sits at around 25c all the time (if that is the one on the front?)

I need to finish doing a job for a friend then I will redo my watercooling with the EX fans, cut a hole in he back of the case and mod with a fan and see if I can give it better airflow inside.

After that I hope all the temps will be low and stable.


----------



## Mgrandy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mixsetup*
> 
> Both sides no wonder the temp dropped so much from the fan at the back when the other VRM2 sits at around 25c all the time (if that is the one on the front?)
> 
> I need to finish doing a job for a friend then I will redo my watercooling with the EX fans, cut a hole in he back of the case and mod with a fan and see if I can give it better airflow inside.
> 
> After that I hope all the temps will be low and stable.


yes your probs right on this, its known that ram chips to improve speed they are mounted on front and back so the connectors interlink. so yes this could be the case im not sure how your board looks from the back but it is definitely worth a shot. the mosfets themselves on the vrm seem to be standard tested between 100 deg c and 175 deg c from what i seen but who knows there a few to many. its also worth noting the voltage these are tested with too


----------



## MishelLngelo

Mosfets could be also cooled from the back of MB even if there are no actual chips there. It can help a lot.


----------



## ozlay

Any plans to update the OP with AM4 boards?


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozlay*
> 
> Any plans to update the OP with AM4 boards?


Use this for now
https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html


----------



## ffejrxx

any chance to add this one
Colorful C.A970X X5 ATX
http://www.gearbest.com/motherboards/pp_359010.html

says its 3+2
has vrm heatsink


----------



## MishelLngelo

Never heard of that one. Who the hell makes that one ? Seems like it's a "sticker engineering" from somebody else than Chameleon.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ffejrxx*
> 
> any chance to add this one
> Colorful C.A970X X5 ATX
> http://www.gearbest.com/motherboards/pp_359010.html
> 
> says its 3+2
> has vrm heatsink


Also found this one via Flebay;

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MAXSUN-MS-B350FX-Gaming-PRO-for-AMD-B350-AM4-ATX-Desktop-Motherboard-System-M2C0/311897706571?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20140106155344%26meid%3Dc0c230bc3216481686ab5cebfb2a24eb%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D112393292447

Very nice looking BUT have no idea as to it's VRM particulars, so if any tech expert can shine a light on this one here that would be appreciated.

Highly unusual to see some no-names vying for the AMD Ryzen moolah, fake or real, who knows.......


----------



## br0da

It's a 4+2 phase VRM, I'm not pretty sure by which controller it is driven. It's a WQFN-52L 6x6 package and it doesn't seem to be an ISL95712, also there is no fitting Richtek controller even if the markings look like it's a RT controller. I'd guess it's a uPI uP9505. If that's the case it would be what's called a "hybrid" controller, so it's still using a analogue backend.

The highside FET for the SoC VCC is a MagnaChip MDD1502 and the lowside is a MDD1501, there is just one of them per phase.
These FETs are pretty decent I'd say, max on-resistance for the lowside @10V VGS is 5.6mOhm, rise- + fall-time for the highside is 20.1ms.
The lowside for the CPU VCC could be doubled which isn't a bad idea at all since switching losses for the lowside aren't high at all too.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *br0da*
> 
> It's a 4+2 phase VRM, I'm not pretty sure by which controller it is driven. It's a WQFN-52L 6x6 package and it doesn't seem to be an ISL95712, also there is no fitting Richtek controller even if the markings look like it's a RT controller. I'd guess it's a uPI uP9505. If that's the case it would be what's called a "hybrid" controller, so it's still using a analogue backend.


Thanks br0da, it was just surprising that anyone else other than MSI, Asrock, Asus, Biostar and Gigabyte would build and sell another B350 motherboard.

Wonder if there are MORE models out there that the whole community knows nothing about?


----------



## br0da

Oh I think there are a couple of boards out there that most of us don't know. E.g. SUPoX, Colorful or Soyo are only selling there boards in China. Pictures of some of them can be found here: https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/ubersicht-amd-am4-mainboards-news-specs-reviews-bilder-alle-plattformen-1135676.html
(Strg + F = "Retail Mainboards")


----------



## buddywh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Also found this one via Flebay;
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MAXSUN-MS-B350FX-Gaming-PRO-for-AMD-B350-AM4-ATX-Desktop-Motherboard-System-M2C0/311897706571?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20140106155344%26meid%3Dc0c230bc3216481686ab5cebfb2a24eb%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D112393292447
> 
> Very nice looking BUT have no idea as to it's VRM particulars, so if any tech expert can shine a light on this one here that would be appreciated.
> 
> Highly unusual to see some no-names vying for the AMD Ryzen moolah, fake or real, who knows.......


Strange looking board: three PCIex16 slots and TWO M.2 slots -- on a B350 chipset??

I may be don't get it, but I think it's trying to appear to be something it doesn't have the cajones to back up.


----------



## MishelLngelo

Two M2 slots probably kill at least 2 SATA ports so it still may work. with B chipset.
3 PCIe x16 slots don't guarantee all of them working at that speed, two are probably shared and drop to x4 when used with first one as x16.


----------



## buddywh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MishelLngelo*
> 
> Two M2 slots probably kill at least 2 SATA ports so it still may work. with B chipset.
> 3 PCIe x16 slots don't guarantee all of them working at that speed, two are probably shared and drop to x4 when used with first one as x16.


I'm sure it will work: but performance will drop. On my B350, the second PCIx16 is wired x4, gen 2. That's OK, maybe, for cross-fire graphics but not if you wanted to put in a PCIe storage adapter expecting full speed NVME. So then what's left for the third one? Which just makes even less sense considering that second M.2: surely it couldn't be full speed NVME either even if it killed two more of those SATA plugs can it? So it would just be another SATA??

All this only makes sense if you've access to cheap M.2 SATA drives. Maybe that's the case.

I'm not sure: but it just seems there's not enough PCIe lanes to go around and even fewer gen. 3. To me it wants to LOOK like a top-tier board but without the SLI licensing cost that comes with an X370. Except they missed a trick: parallel the coils to make the VRM look like a 6 phase.


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## MishelLngelo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buddywh*
> 
> I'm sure it will work: but performance will drop. On my B350, the second PCIx16 is wired x4, gen 2. That's OK, maybe, for SLI graphics but not if you wanted to put in a PCIe storage adapter expecting full speed NVME. So then what's left for the third one? Which just makes even less sense considering that second M.2: surely it couldn't be full speed NVME either even if it killed two more of those SATA plugs can it? So it would just be another SATA??
> 
> I'm not sure: but it just seems there's not enough PCIe lanes to go around and even fewer gen. 3. To me it wants to LOOK like an x370 board but without the SLI licensing costs thrown in. Except they missed a trick: paralleling the coils to make the VRM look like a 6 phase.


Yeah, it's a wannabe "gamer" board.


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## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buddywh*
> 
> Strange looking board: three PCIex16 slots and TWO M.2 slots -- on a B350 chipset??
> 
> I may be don't get it, but I think it's trying to appear to be something it doesn't have the cajones to back up.


I've never used M.2 connections, simply because with my work it makes no difference at all and besides, there are MORE problems using an M.2 slot than with any of the traditional Sata ports.

I know all of you lot here on OCN central get wet thinking about using an M.2 slot but I'm happy with the older sata slots, that keep on working for years without any special drivers and updated firmware to make them reliable.

All I want is a B350 motherboard to run 24/7 with either a 1600 or 1700x, haven't made up my mind with which model to use yet







.


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## superstition222

M.2 is a piece of cake to work with in my experience. I set up a 6700K AsRock ITX system, as a VR machine for a colleague, with an Intel 600p and had no problems at all dealing with the SSD.

The sad part was having to use Windows 10.


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## Durvelle27

Will we get a chart for AM4


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## bardacuda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Durvelle27*
> 
> Will we get a chart for AM4


https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/pga-am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html


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## cdoublejj

what aobut the GA-970A-DS3*P*-FX it supposedly has a s different vrm setup? supposedly the P designates a digital vrm setup?


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## tashcz

It was my first AM3+ board. It has 4+1 VRM phases and a very lousy heatsink. I wouldn't use it past 4.3GHz. Unstable, I could go up to 4.5GHz, but with massive cooling attached to the board. That was using a 8320. Same CPU on the Sabertooth was limited by CPU cooler capacity, and could go up to 4.8GHz.


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## cdoublejj

what's the M5A97 v1 running?


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## cssorkinman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> what's the M5A97 v1 running?


Unless it is an EVO board I believe it would be 4+2


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## cdoublejj

does the GA-MA78GM-UD2H/US2H not benefit from added VRM cooling?


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## cdoublejj

anyone able to tell how many phases the cpu and pcie have?


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## xxpenguinxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> anyone able to tell how many phases the cpu and pcie have?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Looks like 3 on the CPU. PCIe is probably connected strait to the 24 Pin.


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## cdoublejj

what does the PLUS USB3 have?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01FN9QT34/ref=s9u_cartx_gw_i7?ie=UTF8&fpl=fresh&pd_rd_i=B01FN9QT34&pd_rd_r=b935dcaa-d7d5-11e7-a93f-53683bc212b0&pd_rd_w=LTTOK&pd_rd_wg=VlrBp&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=&pf_rd_r=AERX0GM2552AQEM9S3EH&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=e6624b56-7cc1-411f-9d12-9cc8feb6c214&pf_rd_i=desktop


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## MishelLngelo

Very little, a bare 3+1.


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## cdoublejj

Not may fets. How many phases is that? -2?


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## MishelLngelo

At those times they were divided between and close to parts they supplied, CPU, RAM and chipsets and placed close to each.


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## tashcz

I see 3 inductors, so it's probably 2+1.


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## cdoublejj

3 coils and 6 fets by the cpu and 2 or 3 fets by the ram and 2 or 3 fets by the PCIe. i might have to check the temps of the other fets while stress testing and see if they need help too. r


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## tashcz

Yeah, they're low and high side transistors. 2 per "power phase". I'd order some small heatsinks that could fit there and ziptie a 40mm fan if possible. It's really not the best place to work at. What's the boards name, maybe we can find more info?


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## bardacuda

I'm gonna take a wild guess on the second one and say it's a P4M900-M4 ver 6.1


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## tashcz

Uh... I did take a look at that too, but that's an Intel board?


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## MishelLngelo

Yes, Biostar, socket pga478, Intel Pentium IV motherboard.


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## tashcz

Well I'm not sure this is the best place for it to be since were on AMD forums but hey, why not. Not sure about the TDP of the chip that's gonna be there but assuming 75-90W. It would be nice to get some small memory IC heatsinks there.

Greetz from BG


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## cdoublejj

Yes this is the best place as far as i knew some years ago i asked about intel VRMs but, at that time that section wasn't very active so i go here now. Plus you guys are pretty awesome and helpful. Besides it has pins on the CPU close enough.









yeah mine is a 6.2 (blue pcb) and the "before" pic is a 6.1. So far the OSes is installed with GPU drivers so the CPU is going crazy with software rendering and and updates at the same time. at most the VRMs have been getting above room temp, warm. Where as before several hours of stress testing was grounds for VRM pan fried potatoes. it was so i hot i had xbox 360 thermal pads between the case and the back of the mobo.

It's a Pentium 4 532 MOBILE, http://www.cpu-world.com/sspec/SL/SL7NA.html before all the dust and spilled soda on the mobo, when it still had the crappy little copper ones on the VRMs vs these newer bigger aluminum heat sinks and blazes of hell for VRMS i was getting +700mhz OC on stock volts and it was fairly stable and would stress for sometime before showing an error.

i'm about to start a prime 95 to see how hot the VRMS get, i'll add fan if they do. i'm thinking the new PSU's fan is moving air over them now. then i'll do a volt mod since the current bios doesn't allow voltage changes on the mobile CPU. assuming the new bios doesn't change that.

it also handled far cry 3 blood dragon pretty darned well.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tashcz*
> 
> Well I'm not sure this is the best place for it to be since were on AMD forums but hey, why not. Not sure about the TDP of the chip that's gonna be there but assuming 75-90W. It would be nice to get some small memory IC heatsinks there.
> 
> Greetz from BG


on top of the coils/chokes? i had thought about that too since they right about the same exact size.


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## tashcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> Yes this is the best place as far as i knew some years ago i asked about intel VRMs but, at that time that section wasn't very active so i go here now. Plus you guys are pretty awesome and helpful. Besides it has pins on the CPU close enough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah mine is a 6.2 (blue pcb) and the "before" pic is a 6.1. So far the OSes is installed with GPU drivers so the CPU is going crazy with software rendering and and updates at the same time. at most the VRMs have been getting above room temp, warm. Where as before several hours of stress testing was grounds for VRM pan fried potatoes. it was so i hot i had xbox 360 thermal pads between the case and the back of the mobo.
> 
> It's a Pentium 4 532 MOBILE, http://www.cpu-world.com/sspec/SL/SL7NA.html before all the dust and spilled soda on the mobo, when it still had the crappy little copper ones on the VRMs vs these newer bigger aluminum heat sinks and blazes of hell for VRMS i was getting +700mhz OC on stock volts and it was fairly stable and would stress for sometime before showing an error.
> 
> i'm about to start a prime 95 to see how hot the VRMS get, i'll add fan if they do. i'm thinking the new PSU's fan is moving air over them now. then i'll do a volt mod since the current bios doesn't allow voltage changes on the mobile CPU. assuming the new bios doesn't change that.
> 
> it also handled far cry 3 blood dragon pretty darned well.
> on top of the coils/chokes? i had thought about that too since they right about the same exact size.


Nah, coils won't get that hot. You need to try and put them on the transistors/FETs. If you're scared to short it out, get a small piece of thermal pad and put it there instead of thermal paste. I mean, you can put them on coils too, but it won't make a difference, FETs get lower efficency and power output when their temps are lower.


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## bardacuda

Why not just get a new system? Doesn't seem like it's worth buying fans or thermal pads for this. It shouldn't be too hard to find at least a Core2Quad with mobo and RAM for cheap as hell.


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## tashcz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bardacuda*
> 
> Why not just get a new system? Doesn't seem like it's worth buying fans or thermal pads for this. It shouldn't be too hard to find at least a Core2Quad with mobo and RAM for cheap as hell.


Eh... there's joy of making something intended to work "average" work excellent







I remember my mods on the DS3P 970 mobo.. new heatsinks with fan mounts everywhere, NB, VRM... it didn't do much to increase the overclock though since it's a 4+1 phase board but I was real happy modding it


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## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bardacuda*
> 
> Why not just get a new system? Doesn't seem like it's worth buying fans or thermal pads for this. It shouldn't be too hard to find at least a Core2Quad with mobo and RAM for cheap as hell.


this is stuff just laying around. my main rigs are the alienware and the core 2 haf but, the core 2 is also becoming more of linux box/play thing.

Well guys after several hours stressing most of the after noon the coils are now the hottest component. they feel a little burny but, i can keep my finger on there. the VRMs at the base of the heat sink are luke-warm to warm at most. might put fan on there. these new double sided tapes stick like bolts and are rated for 35 lbs in the case of the gorilla double sided tape. it's also squishy so 2 layers of it would conform to the PCB like a thermal pad so great sticking little fans in/on open areas of the PCB or on the serial port in my case.


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## Offler

Some update to ASUS M5A99FX PRO R2.0.

Apparently BIOS might get stuck on "Extreme" VRM setting which keeps all phases on. Newest Bios and proper checking of the setting may resolve the issue. Bad thing is that these boards may be subjected to faster aging due this, good thing that the CPU was usually not on that high load.

To improve thermals on VRM i replaced R9-290x with a watercooled FuryX, NB is not overclocked in my case, so i safely reduced NB voltage to stock. Because NB and VRM share cooler, it improved stability and VRM thermals under load.

Because the CPU isnt able to go above 3800Mhz reliably it wont me much an issue.


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## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> Some update to ASUS M5A99FX PRO R2.0.
> 
> Apparently BIOS might get stuck on "Extreme" VRM setting which keeps all phases on. Newest Bios and proper checking of the setting may resolve the issue. Bad thing is that these boards may be subjected to faster aging due this, good thing that the CPU was usually not on that high load.
> 
> To improve thermals on VRM i replaced R9-290x with a watercooled FuryX, NB is not overclocked in my case, so i safely reduced NB voltage to stock. Because NB and VRM share cooler, it improved stability and VRM thermals under load.
> 
> Because the CPU isnt able to go above 3800Mhz reliably it wont me much an issue.


how does changing the video card reduce mobo VRM thermals?


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## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdoublejj*
> 
> how does changing the video card reduce mobo VRM thermals?


R9-290x is a furnace compared to watercooled R9 FuryX.

While NB cooler which is connected with VRM cooler via heatpipe is right next to it.


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## TeamStars

Hello. Is Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5 R1.0 good? Cause here in my country I checked different shops and they have just R1.0 and not R3.0 or R3.1? Before to ask or say about AMD FX is old story and I should change the platform to Zen or Intel, I have already PC which works good but I'm using at the moment Asrock 970 Pro3 R2.0 which is not bad motherboard but doesn't give me potencial for good overclock. Also I have AMD FX 8300 which is 95W TDP. So my questions - is R1.0 worth it for GA-990FXA-UD5? Thank You!


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## MishelLngelo

I have one for years now with FX 6350 at 4.9 GHz, it's actually v1.1. VRM and NB can get a bit hot but it's doing fine. Only thing it doesn't have is UEFI. Everything works as first day.


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## BuranC

Does the cheapo motherboard Gigabyte 970A DS3P with the black PCB (only motherboard with 900 series chipset available brand new for AM3+ everywhere right now) have the same VRM than the 970A DS3 ? Phase configuration looks the same (4+1) , but no idea on MOSFETs.


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## cdoublejj

i don't see the asrock 760GM-HDV, how many phases is it?


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## xxpenguinxx

cdoublejj said:


> i don't see the asrock 760GM-HDV, how many phases is it?


It looks like a 4+1 layout. If you're running the CPU at stock speeds it should be fine, but I wouldn't overclock with it unless you can find heatsinks that fit on the mosfets.


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## Solohuman

Where is the AM4 database for this topic? 
Is it not logical to list it under the same thread heading?


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## buddywh

Solohuman said:


> Where is the AM4 database for this topic?
> Is it not logical to list it under the same thread heading?


https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/pga-am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html#post25344552


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## cdoublejj

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...MvYeCLI5ZbIpnq5fyiWD4NCkkU/edit#gid=229691480


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## tomikitwo

Hello, I have a question about the GA-990FXA-UD5 rev. 1.0 motherboard. In the officilal list of supported processors I did not find AMD FX-9590. Does this board not support this CPU or the list has not been updated or correct? On the cpu-upgrade.com website, the board is on the list of boards supporting this CPU (https://www.cpu-upgrade.com/CPUs/AMD/FX-Series/FX-9590_motherboards.html). 
Maybe someone has dealt with such hardware and is able to explain to me whether this processor will work on the 1st revision of this motherboard.


----------



## cssorkinman

tomikitwo said:


> Hello, I have a question about the GA-990FXA-UD5 rev. 1.0 motherboard. In the officilal list of supported processors I did not find AMD FX-9590. Does this board not support this CPU or the list has not been updated or correct? On the cpu-upgrade.com website, the board is on the list of boards supporting this CPU (https://www.cpu-upgrade.com/CPUs/AMD/FX-Series/FX-9590_motherboards.html).
> Maybe someone has dealt with such hardware and is able to explain to me whether this processor will work on the 1st revision of this motherboard.


CPU Support List | Service / Support - GIGABYTE Global 

You should find what you are looking for there.


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## xxpenguinxx

The GA-990FXA-UD5 version 3.1 supports the FX-9590, but it looks like the chokes going to the CPU have been upgraded. The power delivery to the CPU is probably weaker on the 1.0 version. I would not trust putting a 220W CPU in it.

The cheapest FX-9590 in North America is $150. For that much money, I can get a 3rd or 4th gen i7 and motherboard. For games a newer quad core CPU will perform better. If you're doing video editing I would wait until you have a little more money to spend and get at least a Ryzen 2nd gen. Not sure what the used market looks like over in your country, but I doubt it's much different.


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## tomikitwo

@cssorkinman @xxpenguinxx Thank you for your advice. I treat FX-9590 typically as a hobbyist. I am from Poland and bought this processor cheaply for ~$30. It turned out that my GA-990FXA-UD5 rev. 1.0 supports this processor on the latest BIOS, but only runs at 4.0 GHz. On my other Asus M5A97 R2.0 motherboard, the processor worked fine, but the platform was unstable during load. I bought another motherboard - Asus M5A99FX PRO R2.0, and here it already works legitimately on aio Fractal Design Celsius s24 cooling


----------

