# Phenom II Overclocking Guide



## logan

So you're here looking for some good info to help you learn how to overclock your Phenom II (hereafter referred to as PhII's). And in the absence of a dedicated PhII guide, I decided that I would try my hand at helping everyone out.

First off, I do not claim to be the most experienced user/overclocker out there, or even on this forum. That said, I do feel that I have a pretty good handle on things, and have helped out enough people that are new to this, that I know mostly what they need to know to get started with their own OC.

*A few Questions before we get started:*

*Do you have an OEM (prebuilt) computer?*

I have seen a lot of people ask for help OC'in a prebuilt computer... which unfortunately, you cannot do (except through software, and we really don't recommend that, because almost all OC'in programs have terrible reputations as far as system stability is concerned [AOD is one notable exception]).You are unable to OC because the mobo is locked... meaning, none of the options in the BIOS that you need are able to be changed. Now, you can get a cheap mobo if you really want, but you should know a few things first. If that's what your plan is, read through THIS, just so you're aware of what will happen.

*Do you have proper cooling?*

OC'in is basically pushing a chip past its designed speed, so it only makes sense that the cooling system would need to be up to the larger demand that is placed upon it through the added clock speed and voltage. Now, you can OC some with a stock cooler, but we recommend that you keep your CPU under about *55* degrees Celsius for its full load temp, because that is the low end of AMD's max rated temps. So some OC'in can be done with a stock heatsink, but don't expect to get as far, because you wont be able to push the voltage much past stock. For more information about how high performance heatsinks work and which ones to look for, or how you can make do with your stock cooler, check HERE and HERE.

*Can the rest of your machine handle it? (PSU and cooling check)*

Often people that are looking to OC are looking for improved performance in games, which often includes a new graphics card and the aforementioned overclocking. An overclocked CPU will draw more power than it did at stock clocks, and better graphics cards almost always require more power, so you need to make sure your PSU can power all of the upgrades. While this is less of a problem with enthusiast built computers, for people looking to upgrade or build for the first time, it is important to mention that the PSU is something that you should never skimp on. The PSU can make or break the whole system (literally), so I don't see why people would try to just barely get by with one. For more reading on this topic, check THIS out, as it can help you figure out how much power you really need, and which brands to look for.

*Are you looking at upgrading to a PhII?*

I did this same thing, and decided that I would post some benchmarks when I made the switch from my 4600 brisbane to my 720 BE. You can see the results of the test HERE. Hopefully that will help you decided (as if the barrage of professional reviews on the web weren't enough to make up your mind).

*Some important info before you start: (Do you have a Black Edition or not?)*

There are two ways to OC the AM3 chips, and both have their own advantages. The first way is for those of you that bought a Black Edition processor. You probably know that you can increase the clock speed by just raising the CPU multiplier. The advantage of this is that you can increase the clock speed easily, without changing any of the other speeds or settings (because the reference clock isn't being adjusted, no other settings will need to be changed).

The second way is by raising the reference clock, This is what those of you that have non-Black Edition processors will have to do. It will sound more complicated, but in all reality, its not that difficult, its the way that people have been overclocking for ages, and it has the added bonus that you can overclock things other than just the CPU clock speed (namely the ram, as well as the Northbridge and Hypertransport speeds), which can provide additional performance benefits over just changing the CPU clock speed. So, like many other things, the additional time that is spent perfecting the OC this way, can definitely pay off for those of you that are looking for the most performance that you can get.

While there are various methods and theories to achieve this end, I will show you how I generally do it. It is slightly less scientific than the one that is laid out in Durches guide, but it is also faster to do. If you want the more precise method, try looking at Durches excellent AM2 guide, you will just need to apply some of what you learn here to that guide, as the AM3 chips are slightly different, but the concepts are almost identical. Done properly, each should get you about the same max OC, so just take your pick as the methods can easily be incorporated into the same OC.

*Reference clock overclocking:*

We'll start with the old school way of OC'in, as this is the one that most people struggle with. Start out by raising the reference clock a few MHz at a time (try 5 or so to begin with). The overall clock speed is based on the reference clock and the CPU multiplier, so by changing this, you will be raising this by 60-100MHz per step. We do it a little bit at a time, because when instabilities surface, it is infinitely easier to find out what is the cause, when you only have one or two things that should be causing it. After each increase in speed, you need to check for stability.

Now, to be considered fully stable, you need to run a program like Orthos, OCCT or prime95 for at least 6-12 hours, but while working with your OC, you don't need to run it near that long. You're just trying to find out if its even close to being stable at the speed it is at right now. In general, if I pass one of the above tests for more than 5 minutes, I'll reboot and continue pushing the OC. Run the longer tests when you think you're where you want to end up, and if it fails before those 6-12 hours, then lower the OC, and try running it again. Otherwise, you're risking running an unstable system for every day, 24/7 usage. Trust me, you do not want to do that, its not worth what it costs for those few additional MHz.

*(primarily you risk corrupting your operating system, as a system that will run your OS, but not pass a stability test will start to perpetuate small errors, and those will eventually be saved to the HDD. That translates into one day your computer runs just fine, the next it wont boot, and there is really nothing you can do to salvage the OS other than to try and save your data, and then reinstall).

Following this pattern, you should likely get the reference clock to about 220-235 before you run into any problems (not a guarantee, but that is based on my experiences here). So now we have a system that is unstable. I will tell you right now, that about 85-90% of the time when you become unstable at this point, its because of the ram being overclocked. Because you have been OC'in with the reference clock, you have also been raising the speed of the ram, because like I said earlier, it is tied to pretty much everything. You can check if it is the ram by running memtest (tests 5 and 8 are the most rigorous, so we usually recommend you run those about 30 minutes each). You should know pretty quick if the ram is your problem.

*What to do when you encounter ram instability:*

To get you past system instability in this case, all you need to do is lower the ram speed setting in the BIOS to the next lowest setting. (If you're running your ram at DDR1333 in the BIOS, then change the setting to DDR1066 for example). The ram speed setting is what we like to call a "divider". In 'normal speak' this means that the speed of the ram is based on a simple formula. When you change the speed setting to a lower value, you are really just dividing by a larger number, so the speed of the ram goes down. To get a much more in depth understanding of how this works, read THIS. For a more basic understanding, I would recommend checking THIS about memory speed and their timings, as many people get them confused.

*North Bridge, Hypertransport and IMC:*

So now you have likely overcome your first instability, and are just cruising right along. The next issue you are likely to have when doing this, is either the *NB* (*N*orth*B*ridge) or *HT* (*H*yper*T*ransport). The *NB* effects the speed that the ram communicates with the CPU, while the *HT* deals with how fast the CPU communicates with the rest of the components on the motherboard (it essential replaced the FSB for those of you intel (or pre socket 754 AMD) owners out there). The NB and HT are related, and in fact, you can't set the *NB* speed any higher than the *HT* speed. Overclocking the HT speed has been shown to provide only marginal improvements in performance (perhaps in cases when multiple high end GPU's are being used). In fact, most of the time people find that there is almost negligible difference in performance between overclocked and underclocked HT's. This is primarily because the HT has such a large bandwidth, that it is rarely saturated with information, so an increase or decrease in speed often is hard to notice. You can see that HERE.

*The HT is really more important for multi-socket Servers, as the communications between CPU's and components becomes much more important.

The NB is where things can get quite confusing for people. The NB is between the CPU and the *IMC*, and the *IMC* is the *I*ntegrated *M*emory *C*ontroller. So you can see that having this go faster will make the memory faster. So obviously the NB speed can be very beneficial to increase. The memory access times and read/writes often go down quite a bit when the NB is OC'd. In fact, this is part of why the memory speeds of the PhII's are so much faster than the original phenoms (you can see this HERE). From tests and reviews that I have seen, you can expect that most AM3 chips will hit 2.4-2.8GHz on the NB, although that will likely require some additional CPU/NB voltage and/or cooling to ensure stability. Read through THIS thread if you have more questions about NB and NB/CPU voltage and settings, it is one of the better sources I have found for good info on that topic.

Another excellent source is has been provided by our very own "Tator Tot", and it does a great job explaining what the voltages actually do, and what they are often referred to in the BIOS. Check it out HERE.

Right now we're still on our quest for more clock speed, so if you encounter instability right now, try lowering the NB and HT multipliers, so that their speeds are closer to the stock values. You should be fine if the values are within a few hundred MHz or so (obviously lower speeds would work as well).

*If the OC is still unstable:*

If you do that and the OC is still unstable, the chances are just that you need more voltage (usually marked as the Vcore in the BIOS). While what increasing the voltage does is actually quite technical, its effects are essentially to help stabilize an unstable processor, but it does this at the price of increased heat, and higher power consumption. In general, there is a point of diminishing return for increasing voltage for higher clock speed. You should be able to notice this as it will take much larger increases in voltage for the same increase in clock speed. Regardless, increase the voltage a little (I generally do one increment at a time, as you don't want to increase the voltage more than necessary) and press on. Keep in mind that you should keep an eye on the temps, and that we usually strive to stay under about 55c for the loaded temps (the temps while you're doing the stress testing).

*Note that AMD has noted a max safe voltage of 1.55v for the Phenom II's, although generally I would not recommend going above 1.5v for 24/7 use.

Continue to do this until you have reached a point where no matter what you do, you cant seem to get any farther with the OC, no matter what you try to adjust at least one thing will hold you back. Sometimes it will be voltage, for others it will be temps, and even for others it will be the processor has hit its maximum performance.

Once you get your max clock speed, try changing some of the settings, and see if you can't squeak a little more performance out of it, by raising the ram, HT and NB speed settings one at a time (one at a time is important, otherwise figuring out what caused what is almost impossible). You can try increasing the voltage to each of those if they are borderline stable, and that can often give you that little bit that you needed to get the OC stabilized. I will say that generally raising the NB voltage has more of an effect than the others, especially at higher reference clock values.

Once you're set on your OC, *don't forget* to run a stability test for at least 6-12hrs.

*Multiplier Overclocking*

*For those of you with Black Editions*, you can just increase the CPU multiplier until it is unstable, increase vcore to fix it, and keep going until you hit the limits on either temps, or voltage. Of course, you could also use some of the principles that you learned reading through here to max out your OC. You just have the additional flexibility of changing your multiplier. For instance, you have the ability to increase your multiplier farther than anyone else, which lets you do something like this. Lets say that you are stable at 3.6GHz (200*18) but not anywhere past that. To improve the total system performance, you could lower the multi to 17 and raise the reference clock to 211, and achieve slightly better performance. Doing it this way you also seeming dodge most of the bullet when it comes to having to tweak the ram speed settings and the like, since the reference clock is still so low.

*Note: You will "usually" be ok using the above method, but overclocking is anything but a guarantee, so depending on your setup, you still might need to tweak things a bit.

Good luck, and if you have any questions or are still running into issues, don't forget to post your problem (not in this thread though, make another one







), that's what the forum is for








*
Other comments:*

You might have people tell you that it is better to have really high reference clock values, and a lower CPU multi (All CPU's have their multiplier unlocked in the downward direction, but black edition chips have it unlocked upwards, which is what makes them special). That information is not very relevant to AMD chips anymore as all AMD chips since the 754's have used the reference clock and HT, instead of the front side bus (FSB). Since the overall HT, NB and clock speeds are what are important, it isn't as important how you get there when it is based off of the reference clock. That advice is much more applicable for CPU's that still utilize the FSB. The FSB is used to communicate between the CPU and everything else on the motherboard (ram, GPU's, PCI, everything). So having the FSB be faster would help the computer be faster in general, since everything was running faster.

This is also a slightly outdated concept in terms of max clock speed as well. With most PhII's being able to reach 3.6-4GHz, it would take reference clock speeds upwards of 300 if a low CPU multiplier was used. Most AMD boards will have a hard time reaching those speeds, so in general I would leave the CPU multiplier at its stock value, in order to get the max overall clock speed.

I've tried to include many useful links in this thread, but most of them are "hidden" in the main text, For this reason I'm going to be listing them here for easier access, although I'll still be leaving them where they are as well.

*Overclocking Guides:*
Official AMD "Dragon" Overclocking guide

Durches AM2+ Overclocking Guide

*Important info for OEM computer owners:*
http://www.overclock.net/amd-general...ml#post6475100

AM2 (brisbane) vs PhII 720 BE "review"

AM3 Motherboard buyers guide

*Air Cooling:*
How Heatpiped coolers work

Guide: Temperatures, heatsinks, monitoring and more

*Hardware information:*
PSU Basics/Buyers Guide

Ram Basics: For those that don't speak nerd

HT Link explored

NB Speeds

NB Speeds, which is best?

Tator Tots "AMD Overclocking Voltages Explained"


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## SubstancenUnknown

WOW very nice this is exactly what we needed....Thank you sir

++rep


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## jimibgood

Quote:I will say that generally raising the NB voltage has more of an effect than the others, especially at higher reference clock values.

The NB settings and voltages really are mostly dependent on the chipset in the motherboard. Some can hit high voltages no problem and some just cannot(LUCKY/UNLUCKY CHIPSET). I would bet in the clip below, the higher NB and voltages have aftermarket chipset coolers.

Nice job Logan..... Here is a clip from our forum... Link below to show some NB settings and Voltages.

http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/50...gs-max-oc.html


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## gerikoh

hey logan, it's quite odd. but my nb speed is always higher than my ht. but wierd stuff happens with my sensors when the difference is about 1000mhz, as my mobo would report a cpu freq of 50mhz instead of the usual. also, in my mobo, i couldn't figure out which one is for the imc tweaking. i read somewhere that there is something like nbcore voltage for imc and nbvoltage for northbridge voltage. i still don't get the purpose of increase imc volts value or whatsoever.


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## logan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gerikoh* 
hey logan, it's quite odd. but my nb speed is always higher than my ht. but wierd stuff happens with my sensors when the difference is about 1000mhz, as my mobo would report a cpu freq of 50mhz instead of the usual. also, in my mobo, i couldn't figure out which one is for the imc tweaking. i read somewhere that there is something like nbcore voltage for imc and nbvoltage for northbridge voltage. i still don't get the purpose of increase imc volts value or whatsoever.

It sounds like you might have a sensor issue like you say. I don't know if you checked out all the links in the guide yet, but this one is really interesting.

Quote:

*: Because of the NB frequency of 1.8GHz, we were not able to test HT link performance scaling beyond 1.8GHz. The HT Link has to be equal or lower than the NB frequency at all times due to the design.
Source

And as for the voltage question, try looking HERE, as that is one of the better explanations that I have seen. Look at post #5.

My understanding is that the IMC voltage is for the few cases when the IMC is the cause of the ram instability, rather than the ram itself. The NB voltage should be for helping stabilize the NB under heavy OC's

Jimi-

My experience overclocking the NB is actually fairly low compaired to some. So that number of 2.4-2.8GHz is actually an average of what I have seen on the review sites (looking for the link right now, but I remember reading one that said that each PhII sample they had received had been able to hit 2.8GHz). I mentioned that extra voltage would likely be required for those speeds, but neglected to effected to mention that the NB and chipset cooling would effect the max NB OC they got. I will add a qualifier to the OP to explicitly state that.

Thanks for the tip


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## gerikoh

thanks for the link. but how would i know that the imc is not the cause of instability of my oc? so far, i just can't boot windows when i have a nb speed greater than 2400mhz even at nbv or 1.5. i dunno if it's the imc or my ram. but i already loosen my timings and i already tried some overvolting with my ram, rated 1.8-2v and i tried it at 2.05v. should i try 2.2? though i'm kinda scared that to fry my ram till i get a better cooling. btw, this is with an igp oc since i'm still waiting for my gpu to be on stock.







could this be the main reason why?


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## logan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gerikoh* 
thanks for the link. but how would i know that the imc is not the cause of instability of my oc? so far, i just can't boot windows when i have a nb speed greater than 2400mhz even at nbv or 1.5. i dunno if it's the imc or my ram. but i already loosen my timings and i already tried some overvolting with my ram, rated 1.8-2v and i tried it at 2.05v. should i try 2.2? though i'm kinda scared that to fry my ram till i get a better cooling. btw, this is with an igp oc since i'm still waiting for my gpu to be on stock.







could this be the main reason why?

I don't know of any really scientific method to find out if the IMC or the ram is unstable, other than increasing the voltage a bit and seeing if it helps out any. The problem is that the ram is so connected to both of those, it is hard to determine with part is causing the instability. If someone knows a better way to determine this, I would be appreciative.

You can't get the NB above 2.4GHz? I as long as the ram is close to stock clocks, then I don't see how the ram could be part of the problem. Although, most DDR2 is good with up to around 2.2v, its beyond that that I would start worrying.

Have you tried messing with all of the NB and chipset related voltages yet? That is where I would start, and honestly, I can't remember if you have done that yet... sorry I havn't been around as much lately, these guides + life have kept me pretty busy.

P.S. I am looking for a screenshot of AOD 3 (can't run it myself, need a new mobo first). It is the chart that shows how the NB and HT communicate with everything else. I think it would be useful for the readers, and would help break up the wall of text that is this guide. I'd be greatful if someone could help me find that screeny.


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## gerikoh

well i'm a bit of htt and multi oc. the only nb related voltage i can tweak is the nb volts itself. there's also an ht link volts but i dont thing that's it though.


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## jimibgood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *logan* 
It sounds like you might have a sensor issue like you say. I don't know if you checked out all the links in the guide yet, but this one is really interesting.

Source

And as for the voltage question, try looking HERE, as that is one of the better explanations that I have seen. Look at post #5.

My understanding is that the IMC voltage is for the few cases when the IMC is the cause of the ram instability, rather than the ram itself. The NB voltage should be for helping stabilize the NB under heavy OC's

Jimi-

My experience overclocking the NB is actually fairly low compaired to some. So that number of 2.4-2.8GHz is actually an average of what I have seen on the review sites (looking for the link right now, but I remember reading one that said that each PhII sample they had received had been able to hit 2.8GHz). I mentioned that extra voltage would likely be required for those speeds, but neglected to effected to mention that the NB and chipset cooling would effect the max NB OC they got. I will add a qualifier to the OP to explicitly state that.

Thanks for the tip

I have studied this in depth as well. Like Our members show, the majority use much lower than 2400 on the NB. Raising the NB with aftermarket chipset cooling will absolutely getcha a higher OC but as far as stock chipset cooling, Lower NB will definitely keep you cooler and stable. Pushing it is what gets a nice overclock. I have gotten over 2600 on NB and once 2800.... *You may be onto something..*. I will increase NB voltage and see what I can get my NB up to just to see. Once I get a nice NB setting, I will go for another overclock.

Logan.. you need to get a life and so do I...LOL...







Kidding. I need you for this question. My bios has 2 Nortbridge voltages. NB/CPU and NB. I mess with NB and really get nowhere. The NB/CPU is where I get places but really could use some recommendations for settings. I can get over 2600 on NB with 1.30 NB/CPU voltage.


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## jimibgood

double post sorry!


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## logan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jimibgood* 
I have studied this in depth as well. Like Our members show, the majority use much lower than 2400 on the NB. Raising the NB with aftermarket chipset cooling will absolutely getcha a higher OC but as far as stock chipset cooling, Lower NB will definitely keep you cooler and stable. Pushing it is what gets a nice overclock. I have gotten over 2600 on NB and once 2800.... *You may be onto something..*. I will increase NB voltage and see what I can get my NB up to just to see. Once I get a nice NB setting, I will go for another overclock.

Logan.. you need to get a life and so do I...LOL...







Kidding. I need you for this question. My bios has 2 Nortbridge voltages. NB/CPU and NB. I mess with NB and really get nowhere. The NB/CPU is where I get places but really could use some recommendations for settings. I can get over 2600 on NB with 1.30 NB/CPU voltage.

The NB voltage should be the chipset voltage. That is the voltage that you would increase to help with higher reference clock speeds (useful for OCin non-Black Edition processors). The NB/CPU voltage should be the actual NB voltage, which is what you will need to increase to get a large NB OC.

It seems like most high OC's will use around 1.4v for the NB/CPU voltage, so you might try that out and see how that goes. Also note though, that since the NB is in the CPU, that that will also effect the CPU temp.

From the link that I posted before.

Quote:

Memory controller clock speed also has a huge impact on system speed. Default on the 955 is 2GHX...there is just no sense in running this way...if you see reviewers doing this they are NOT getting the best from the system.
with 955 the multiplier for the memory controller (CPU-NB) is totally unlocked, this means default multi is 10...but you can push this UP and well as DOWN.
Try to consider the memory controller as just another processor and overclock it the same way...increase voltage to gain higher clocks but be aware that doing so injects heat into the system.
And

Quote:

Adding more CPU-NB voltage can add a lot of heat to the CPU...add voltage in tiny steps..not big jumps
And actually, it took me so long to get this done because ironically, life was in the way. I haven't been near as active lately, you should have seen me last summer when being at work didn't directly correlate with actually working...







Now that I actually have to work at work, its really put a damper on things...

Good luck, and make sure to let us know how the NB OC goes.


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## thlnk3r

Thread is now stickied


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## gerikoh

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jimibgood* 
I have studied this in depth as well. Like Our members show, the majority use much lower than 2400 on the NB. Raising the NB with aftermarket chipset cooling will absolutely getcha a higher OC but as far as stock chipset cooling, Lower NB will definitely keep you cooler and stable. Pushing it is what gets a nice overclock. I have gotten over 2600 on NB and once 2800.... *You may be onto something..*. I will increase NB voltage and see what I can get my NB up to just to see. Once I get a nice NB setting, I will go for another overclock.

Logan.. you need to get a life and so do I...LOL...







Kidding. I need you for this question. My bios has 2 Nortbridge voltages. NB/CPU and NB. I mess with NB and really get nowhere. The NB/CPU is where I get places but really could use some recommendations for settings. I can get over 2600 on NB with 1.30 NB/CPU voltage.

i already bought an aftermarket for it. and i've already set nb volts to 1.5. i even tried 1.6 lol but i just can't boot windows. nb/cpu i believe is for ht link.


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## logan

Wouldn't the HT link be affected by the HT voltage? or am I missing something completely (not trying to be rude, just making sure the guide is accurate).

And thanks for the sticky thlnk3r, hopefully people will start to use this like durches... kinda the one stop spot for helping new users figure out whats going on.


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## gerikoh

Yep. And i can actually adjust the ht voltage. I did try a 0.06 increase though. And i want to push it further but i can't till i buy an aftermarket for my southbridge. I just want it to be safe.







I just want to buy all my stuff before I continue experimenting with this thing.


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## jimibgood

Quote:


Originally Posted by *logan* 
The NB voltage should be the chipset voltage. That is the voltage that you would increase to help with higher reference clock speeds (useful for OCin non-Black Edition processors). The NB/CPU voltage should be the actual NB voltage, which is what you will need to increase to get a large NB OC.

It seems like most high OC's will use around 1.4v for the NB/CPU voltage, so you might try that out and see how that goes. Also note though, that since the NB is in the CPU, that that will also effect the CPU temp.

From the link that I posted before.

And

And actually, it took me so long to get this done because ironically, life was in the way. I haven't been near as active lately, you should have seen me last summer when being at work didn't directly correlate with actually working...







Now that I actually have to work at work, its really put a damper on things...

Good luck, and make sure to let us know how the NB OC goes.


When I increase my NB voltage I crash. The CPU/NB v are what I only get results with.

I understand that but voltages are can be different with the same motherboard. Chipsets are different... there are lucky and unlucky ones.... But back to the topic/////// I got over 2800 MHz stable at 3.67GHz but still cannot go further. It seems to be more unstable and crashes quicker in the 3.7GHz + range


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## jimibgood

Logan, you made a comment that the Phenom II's are much faster than the original Phenoms. They are only 9% faster core for core.


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## thlnk3r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jimibgood* 
Logan, you made a comment that the Phenom II's are much faster than the original Phenoms. They are only 9% faster core for core.

Jimibgood, that is some interesting info. Do you have links to reviews/benchmarks that discuss this?

Good luck


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## wuttz

jimibgood thanks for the info but would like a source to cite for future reference please. thanks bud!

**edit: lol think3r!


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## thlnk3r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wuttz* 
jimibgood thanks for the info but would like a source to cite for future reference please. thanks bud!

**edit: lol think3r!

Wuttz, hey great minds think alike


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## wuttz

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thlnk3r* 
Wuttz, hey great minds think alike









*thank you sir*, but i am not so bold to say my mind is as great as yours!









jimibgood,


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## thlnk3r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *wuttz* 
*thank you sir*, but i am not so bold to say my mind is as great as yours!

Wuttz, we're all the same here









Question about jimibgood's comment, if it's only a 9% increase then how come most saw huge improvements going from a Phenom I to a Phenom II? Honestly I can't speak from experience because I have yet to upgrade to these new bad boys but really...9%? That doesn't seem very much...


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## logan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *jimibgood* 
Logan, you made a comment that the Phenom II's are much faster than the original Phenoms. They are only 9% faster core for core.

The statement will stand, but because I am talking about in an overall sense, rather than at identical clock speeds. I understand that it is not a massive improvement in terms of clock for clock performance, but it IS a massive gain in clock speed.

In other words, a PhII will be much faster than a PhI, but MOST of the extra performance comes from the fact that most of the will have about 500MHz clock speed advantage (stock or OC'ed).

Hopefully that clears things up... and for the record, 9% is still a decent improvement for what is basically a refinement of the same architecture.

Thanks guys!


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## Slappa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *logan* 

Now, to be considered fully stable, you need to run a program like Orthos, OCCT or prime95 for at least 6-12 hours, but while working with your OC, you don't need to run it near that long. You're just trying to find out if its even close to being stable at the speed it is at right now. In general, if I pass one of the above tests for more than 5 minutes, I'll reboot and continue pushing the OC. Run the longer tests when you think you're where you want to end up, and if it fails before those 6-12 hours, then lower the OC, and try running it again. Otherwise, you're risking running an unstable system for every day, 24/7 usage. Trust me, you do not want to do that, its not worth what it costs for those few additional MHz.

If you do that and the OC is still unstable, the chances are just that you need more voltage (usually marked as the Vcore in the BIOS). While what increasing the voltage does is actually quite technical, its effects are essentially to help stabilize an unstable processor, but it does this at the price of increased heat, and higher power consumption. In general, there is a point of diminishing return for increasing voltage for higher clock speed. You should be able to notice this as it will take much larger increases in voltage for the same increase in clock speed. Regardless, increase the voltage a little (I generally do one increment at a time, as you don't want to increase the voltage more than necessary) and press on. Keep in mind that you should keep an eye on the temps, and that we usually strive to stay under about 55c for the loaded temps (the temps while you're doing the stress testing).


Good guide. A few things though, as I have done extensive testing with these processors.

The only valid stress testing program is Prime 95. After about 2 hours, it starts to stress the NB/IMC. OCCT does not do this. It is essential to run P95 for *at least 3 hours*.

Also, voltage increasing does not always help. Especially with AM3 chips (710, 720BE, 955BE). They actually dislike more voltage a lot of the time. Read about it here and here.


----------



## logan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Slappa* 
Good guide. A few things though, as I have done extensive testing with these processors.

The only valid stress testing program is Prime 95. After about 2 hours, it starts to stress the NB/IMC. OCCT does not do this. It is essential to run P95 for *at least 3 hours*.

Also, voltage increasing does not always help. Especially with AM3 chips (710, 720BE, 955BE). They actually dislike more voltage a lot of the time. Read about it here and here.

Thanks for that slappa. I actually noticed your guide a few weeks ago after I had started working on mine. You do good work







.

I am fully aware of what electron migration is, but always thought about it more in the terms of causing potential harm over time (you know, causing the CPU to require more and more energy to remain stable and the like). I thought electron migration eventually wore down the transistors, and it seems like no matter how the transistor is made, the effect should be similar (meaning intel vs AMD).

And I definitely understand the fact that there is a diminishing return on the application of more voltage to these processors (especially with higher temps). However, I thought the really high LN2 OC's were with done with crazy vcore (I seem to remember 1.6-1.9v for some reason). So obviously they are requiring more voltage for those OC's, which is what makes me wonder how that fits in with this concept of to much voltage. And it also seems that there are many OCNers with 1.5-1.55v for their high OC's

However, if you could explain those few things for me, that would be great.
Just please keep in mind that I am NOT attacking you, I just would like additional clarification to make sure that I can make the guide useful for the largest group of people that I can.

Would you say that in general that my statement is correct about voltage (particularly on air cooling)? I ask because like I said, I don't proclaim to be a guru, and would like to have the guide be correct. I am more than willing to add a qualifier in there, but the qualifier should be in reference to less common event.

Essentially, if I added something like this to the guide under that part.

*Testing has shown that at times additional voltage may actually have a negative effect on stability (particularly with more extreme cooling). If you have tried everything else listed here, you may actually try LOWERING your vcore, and see if that will help. It is for reasons like this that we recommend increasing voltage in small increments, rather than in large jumps.

Thanks for the input guys, this is great.


----------



## Slappa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *logan* 
Thanks for that slappa. I actually noticed your guide a few weeks ago after I had started working on mine. You do good work







.

I am fully aware of what electron migration is, but always thought about it more in the terms of causing potential harm over time (you know, causing the CPU to require more and more energy to remain stable and the like). I thought electron migration eventually wore down the transistors, and it seems like no matter how the transistor is made, the effect should be similar (meaning intel vs AMD).

And I definitely understand the fact that there is a diminishing return on the application of more voltage to these processors (especially with higher temps). However, I thought the really high LN2 OC's were with done with crazy vcore (I seem to remember 1.6-1.9v for some reason). So obviously they are requiring more voltage for those OC's, which is what makes me wonder how that fits in with this concept of to much voltage. And it also seems that there are many OCNers with 1.5-1.55v for their high OC's

However, if you could explain those few things for me, that would be great.
Just please keep in mind that I am NOT attacking you, I just would like additional clarification to make sure that I can make the guide useful for the largest group of people that I can.

Would you say that in general that my statement is correct about voltage (particularly on air cooling)? I ask because like I said, I don't proclaim to be a guru, and would like to have the guide be correct. I am more than willing to add a qualifier in there, but the qualifier should be in reference to less common event.

Essentially, if I added something like this to the guide under that part.

*Testing has shown that at times additional voltage may actually have a negative effect on stability (particularly with more extreme cooling). If you have tried everything else listed here, you may actually try LOWERING your vcore, and see if that will help. It is for reasons like this that we recommend increasing voltage in small increments, rather than in large jumps.

Thanks for the input guys, this is great.

So far, there has been no significant cases of degradation from electron migration in Phenom II's. I imagine it does do some damage, but to a very little extent. AMD's process is different than Intel's which is why it is not damaged as much.

Actually, with the AM3 Phenom II's under LN2, they can sustain more voltage only because of the cool temperature, which in turn gains some extra stability. So you are partially right, but those voltages only help when temperature is not a worry. For example, even on air, you couldn't boot into windows with any quads at 1.7Vcore EVEN IF temperatures are in the 20-30 range.

On air, my Phenom II 955 is not stable with any clock with more than 1.472Vcore. If it could sustain more, I may be able to get a higher overclock, but it depends on the leakage or migration of your chip.

Your air cooling statement is generally correct until users hit the voltage tolerance wall of their particular chip. For example, I am at 3.84GHz at 1.472Vcore, but increasing that to 1.5Vcore only makes my stability worse.


----------



## logan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Slappa* 
So far, there has been no significant cases of degradation from electron migration in Phenom II's. I imagine it does do some damage, but to a very little extent. AMD's process is different than Intel's which is why it is not damaged as much.

Actually, with the AM3 Phenom II's under LN2, they can sustain more voltage only because of the cool temperature, which in turn gains some extra stability. So you are partially right, but those voltages only help when temperature is not a worry. For example, even on air, you couldn't boot into windows with any quads at 1.7Vcore EVEN IF temperatures are in the 20-30 range.

On air, my Phenom II 955 is not stable with any clock with more than 1.472Vcore. If it could sustain more, I may be able to get a higher overclock, but it depends on the leakage or migration of your chip.

Your air cooling statement is generally correct until users hit the voltage tolerance wall of their particular chip. For example, I am at 3.84GHz at 1.472Vcore, but increasing that to 1.5Vcore only makes my stability worse.

So they're able to use higher vcore simply because the temps are low enough? Thats how I read it anyway, which is generally how I've understood it in the past... and yea... I really doubt that I could boot my 720 BE at 1.7v even if I left the window open all night in the winter







.

Cool, tomorrow I'll add some more about temps in there, and throw that qualifier in for good measure.

Thanks, and +rep


----------



## Mikecdm

Thanks for the guide logan. The extra info explaining things has been very useful in determining why my clocks aren't stable at times. I'd like to thank Slappa as well for clarifying the temp/volt misconception.

I wondered why earlier today I was able to reach certain clock, but later in the day when my ambient shot up, the computer would crash seconds into P95. Extra vcore wouldn't help either.


----------



## gerikoh

hi guys. here's an ultimate clock for clock comparison, deneb vs agena including kentsfield, yorkfield and bloomfield, all at 3ghz.
http://translate.google.com/translat...istory_state0=

i'm thinking 10%.

hey logan, you might want to check this out.
http://techreaction.net/forums/showthread.php?t=367

hope this helps with your guide


----------



## Slappa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *logan* 
So they're able to use higher vcore simply because the temps are low enough? Thats how I read it anyway, which is generally how I've understood it in the past... and yea... I really doubt that I could boot my 720 BE at 1.7v even if I left the window open all night in the winter







.

Cool, tomorrow I'll add some more about temps in there, and throw that qualifier in for good measure.

Thanks, and +rep









No problem, glad i could clarify.


----------



## logan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *gerikoh* 
hi guys. here's an ultimate clock for clock comparison, deneb vs agena including kentsfield, yorkfield and bloomfield, all at 3ghz.
http://translate.google.com/translat...istory_state0=

i'm thinking 10%.

hey logan, you might want to check this out.
http://techreaction.net/forums/showthread.php?t=367

hope this helps with your guide









Thanks for the links. I thought about inserting things like how ram speed is calculated into this guide (got so far as to write another mini-guide for it like my PSU one) but decided that durches guide covered it well, and thought that since the main point of this guide is not to be an end all "read this and all of your overclocking problems will be solved" type of guide. But rather A simple guide that could walk new members through the basics of overclocking. I mean... if we answered all of the questions in the guide.. .we wouldn't have anything to do in the forums







.

I'll continue thinking about ways to improve both the readibility, as well as content. i'm just worried about trying to put to much in there, and then end up confusing the new readers.

Thanks!


----------



## thlnk3r

Slappa, thank you for including that helpful information about electromigration here. That's a great explanation. Where did you originally read about this?

Good luck


----------



## Slappa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thlnk3r* 
Slappa, thank you for including that helpful information about electromigration here. That's a great explanation. Where did you originally read about this?

Good luck

I didn't read about it anywhere. Through my experience with AMD at their CEC in Texas, chew* for informing me that high leakage chips are best for LN2.

Also, I knew about electron migration, but what I had to think of was why did that effect Phenom II the way it does. The Phenom II's don't like high amounts of voltage so I figured it all out.


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Slappa* 
I didn't read about it anywhere. Through my experience with AMD at their CEC in Texas, chew* for informing me that high leakage chips are best for LN2.

Also, I knew about electron migration, but what I had to think of was why did that effect Phenom II the way it does. The Phenom II's don't like high amounts of voltage so I figured it all out.

Slappa, ahhh ok I was just curious. Sometimes it's nice to have some documentation/links to provide to users that are actually curious about the subject.

Thanks for the info


----------



## logan

I think that do avoid clutter, I will be adding another mini guide to this in the next week or so. This one will be on voltage options in the BIOS (complete with a diagram of where the voltages are applied), as well as mentioning more about how the PhII doesn't like high temps and that at times it might be beneficial to actually lower the voltage for more stability.

Just wanted to update yall, because I'm still working on this. I just want to keep the main post pretty simple, but this additional info will be good, so I'll put it in yet another mini-guide (that will be like 6 I've written for this so far).

Cheers


----------



## thlnk3r

Logan, sounds awesome! I look forward to seeing the mini-guide


----------



## Miked270

Wow Logan, thank you! That was one of the best things I've read on the subject because I actually felt like I understood it. I'm a complete NEWB to overclocking as this is my first "real" pc and I only built it a few weeks ago. Basically I've caught the sickness of trying to maximize performance. Problem is my friend/co-worker who is more educated and experienced in OC'ing has an intel (E6850) and doesn't know AMD's. He keeps telling me false things like how I need to maintain a 1:1 memory ratio, or that I need to increase my FSB to get max performance. So it was great reading something written so well and AMD specific


----------



## logan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Miked270* 
Wow Logan, thank you! That was one of the best things I've read on the subject because I actually felt like I understood it. I'm a complete NEWB to overclocking as this is my first "real" pc and I only built it a few weeks ago. Basically I've caught the sickness of trying to maximize performance. Problem is my friend/co-worker who is more educated and experienced in OC'ing has an intel (E6850) and doesn't know AMD's. He keeps telling me false things like how I need to maintain a 1:1 memory ratio, or that I need to increase my FSB to get max performance. So it was great reading something written so well and AMD specific

Thanks man, I'm glad that I could help you out. And I know there must be other people out there that need this kind of information too. I really do appreciate your comment.

As for the upcoming mini-guide... I have finished the visual parts (AOD screenshot with labeling where the voltages apply, and then the mobo with which parts are attach to which BIOS setting labeled). I have not started the actual written portion though, and it might be a little while before I get it done (just bought a car, went on vacation, girlfriends birthday, and its crunch time at work







. However, it still is on the way, its just been delayed.

I'll keep everyone up to date.


----------



## kaxx

Quote:


Originally Posted by *logan* 
Thanks man, I'm glad that I could help you out. And I know there must be other people out there that need this kind of information too. I really do appreciate your comment.

As for the upcoming mini-guide... I have finished the visual parts (AOD screenshot with labeling where the voltages apply, and then the mobo with which parts are attach to which BIOS setting labeled). I have not started the actual written portion though, and it might be a little while before I get it done (just bought a car, went on vacation, girlfriends birthday, and its crunch time at work







. However, it still is on the way, its just been delayed.

I'll keep everyone up to date.

Excellent work Logan. Exactly what I was looking for.


----------



## onoz

Very helpful! Thanks a bunch!


----------



## luke666

can anyone help me achieve the best and STABLE results i can with this settings.
i have the M4N82 Deluxe motherboard from ASUS and i use a software called TURBOV (if im correct) provided with the motherboard cd to overclock. i do not know how to adjust the settings with my BIOS and i am hoping someone can help me out with this, or even telling me the best performance and stability i can get by using the software, either is fine. extra things are i have 1000W power supply from CORSAIR and a CoolerMaster V10 Cooler oh and i do leave my computer on a lot as well .


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *luke666* 
can anyone help me achieve the best and STABLE results i can with this settings.
i have the M4N82 Deluxe motherboard from ASUS and i use a software called TURBOV (if im correct) provided with the motherboard cd to overclock. i do not know how to adjust the settings with my BIOS and i am hoping someone can help me out with this, or even telling me the best performance and stability i can get by using the software, either is fine. extra things are i have 1000W power supply from CORSAIR and a CoolerMaster V10 Cooler oh and i do leave my computer on a lot as well .

Luke, welcome to Overclock.net









A lot of overclocking changes can actually be done in your bios. Go to the "Ai Tweaker" menu. There should be an option in there called, "AI Overclocking". In that menu you should have the option to change the _CPU Ratio_, _FSB Frequency_ and _PCIE Frequency_ (which doesn't really need to be touched). In the main menu of "Ai Tweaker" the _DRAM Frequency Control_ option is also available.

Let us know if that helps. I typically stay away from software overclocking. The bios tends to be more useful. However there are some exceptions where software overclocking proves to be useful at times.

Good luck


----------



## logan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thlnk3r* 
Luke, welcome to Overclock.net









A lot of overclocking changes can actually be done in your bios. Go to the "Ai Tweaker" menu. There should be an option in there called, "AI Overclocking". In that menu you should have the option to change the _CPU Ratio_, _FSB Frequency_ and _PCIE Frequency_ (which doesn't really need to be touched). In the main menu of "Ai Tweaker" the _DRAM Frequency Control_ option is also available.

Let us know if that helps. I typically stay away from software overclocking. The bios tends to be more useful. However there are some exceptions where software overclocking proves to be useful at times.

Good luck

Agreed on all counts there thlnk3r.

I could not cover all of the possible locations for the BIOS settings in my guide, as there are just to many. This is a great time to point out that you should be able to find settings like thlnk3r mentioned above in any BIOS, regardless of what they are are actually called. In my case, most are under a tab called "AMD overclocking", while others are just under "advanced chipset options" or something like that.

Also, I totally agree with staying away from software overclocking. Most of them (with the exception of AOD) are known for instability and file corruption in the long run, which can often lead to a corrupted OS.

Anyway, good luck with the OC, and if you need any more help, post your own thread in the forums


----------



## luke666

i was wondering if there is any possbile way u could give me the numbers instead needing to do trial and error ?


----------



## luke666

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thlnk3r* 
Luke, welcome to Overclock.net









A lot of overclocking changes can actually be done in your bios. Go to the "Ai Tweaker" menu. There should be an option in there called, "AI Overclocking". In that menu you should have the option to change the _CPU Ratio_, _FSB Frequency_ and _PCIE Frequency_ (which doesn't really need to be touched). In the main menu of "Ai Tweaker" the _DRAM Frequency Control_ option is also available.

Let us know if that helps. I typically stay away from software overclocking. The bios tends to be more useful. However there are some exceptions where software overclocking proves to be useful at times.

Good luck

I was wondering if you could give me the numbers that i can put to get the best and stable performance for each category?if you can. or would i have to do it trial and error style ?


----------



## logan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *luke666* 
I was wondering if you could give me the numbers that i can put to get the best and stable performance for each category?if you can. or would i have to do it trial and error style ?

Unfortunately because each computer is different in components, and each CPU is not made out of the same silicon, we can't tell you exactly what you should use to get your best OC.

The trial and error way is long, but it really is the best way to do this, otherwise you won't be sure that the OC is stable, and you might end up trashing your OS which is never very fun.

In general most PhII's can OC to about 3.6GHz without to much trouble, so try something that will land you close to that ( just play around with the multi and the reference clock). Usually at the begining stages of the OC you can make larger changes, then when you get closer to your max OC, you can make the smaller adjustments.

Good luck

P.S. There is an edit button for those times when you just need to ammend your post


----------



## luke666

Quote:


Originally Posted by *logan* 
Unfortunately because each computer is different in components, and each CPU is not made out of the same silicon, we can't tell you exactly what you should use to get your best OC.

The trial and error way is long, but it really is the best way to do this, otherwise you won't be sure that the OC is stable, and you might end up trashing your OS which is never very fun.

In general most PhII's can OC to about 3.6GHz without to much trouble, so try something that will land you close to that ( just play around with the multi and the reference clock). Usually at the begining stages of the OC you can make larger changes, then when you get closer to your max OC, you can make the smaller adjustments.

Good luck

P.S. There is an edit button for those times when you just need to ammend your post









alright, thx for the help i will get back to this thread once i am finished. it will take me quite awhile since im really busy with work these days. thx for all the info. oh and btw, if i OC in the BIOS it means it will permanently be that way when i shut down and restart my computer right ?


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *luke666* 
oh and btw, if i OC in the BIOS it means it will permanently be that way when i shut down and restart my computer right ?

Luke, that is correct. The settings are saved until you go back in and change them. Clearing the CMOS will revert all settings back to the factory defaults.

Hope that helps


----------



## younggrasshoppa

hey guys im new here and have also caught the overclocking bug. Its my first time and im not looking to do anything fancy. A few more FPS in counter strike would be nice







. Please bare with me being a huge NOOB.

Any help would be greatly appriciated!!

Im running
windows 7x64
m4a78 plus mobo <---the board reverts RAM to 800mhz if more then 4gigs installed
phenom x2 550 <--the box says black edition but i think they all are
hd 4870
8 gig RAM
4gig OCZ 1066 timing is different though is that a big deal?
4gig ocz fat1ity 1066 <--didnt pay for randomly showed up in my build so i shoved it in there















500W coolermaster supply
CM Scout gaming case

Im not a pro at this so im assuming that this just stock cooling (im not sure







) so im aware i wont be able to OC much

So far i did what the thread told me to and just increased my multiplier a step at a time and ran prime 95 to test stability while monitoring temps with HWM.

I got up to the 18.0 multiplier before prime crashed and restarted after less then a few minutes into testing. Before that i was able to get though 15 minutes with no problems.

I didnt try to increase the voltage cause im not sure if i should the only setting i can seem to find is increasing the voltage by 50mv and im pretty sure i dont have the cooling for that.

I put the multiplier back down 17.5 which has me clocked at 3.5ghz.

Im now running a prolonged prime 95 test which has been running now for 2:30 and my max cpu temp has been 54c. I idled at 39-38. I havent added any power so i assuming if i did would i be putting too much heat stress?

Please if there is anything else i can tell you guys to help TELL ME!!! should, i stop here, can the FB/RAM be tweaked? Should i pull it back a little bit? increase voltage?

for now ill continue and run the prime95 for 6-12 hours. will i be stable and cool enough if its gets through the test? with a max cpu temp of 54-55c? room temp is around 20-23c

p.s CPU vcore accoiding to HWM is 1.33 max, its just on stock power as i have only changed the multiplier in bios


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *younggrasshoppa* 
I put the multiplier back down 17.5 which has me clocked at 3.5ghz.

Im now running a prolonged prime 95 test which has been running now for 2:30 and my max cpu temp has been 54c. I idled at 39-38. I havent added any power so i assuming if i did would i be putting too much heat stress?

Please if there is anything else i can tell you guys to help TELL ME!!! should, i stop here, can the FB/RAM be tweaked? Should i pull it back a little bit? increase voltage?

for now ill continue and run the prime95 for 6-12 hours. will i be stable and cool enough if its gets through the test? with a max cpu temp of 54-55c? room temp is around 20-23c

p.s CPU vcore accoiding to HWM is 1.33 max, its just on stock power as i have only changed the multiplier in bios

Younggrasshoppa, sorry for the late response. Did you pass stability testing at 3.5Ghz? If you were to up the cpu voltage that would indeed increase temperatures. The full load temperatures you described above aren't bad at all. Are you able to view your "core" temperatures instead? Those are typically the most important.

Include some cpu-z screen shots of your most recent overclock. Perhaps we can point you in the right direction. Include the cpu and memory tab if you can.

Good luck


----------



## younggrasshoppa

Ok since my last post i have added a "Cooler master 212 hyper plus" heat sink to replace the stock one, and another 120mm fan, which have changed my temps drastically!!

This is my latest stable over clock. Any suggestions for tinkering would be great!!! Mind you im looking for best game performance not neccessarily just getting the highest numbers if that makes sense. Those temps in the pic are after 50 mins at MAX load with prime95 i have ran it for 6 hours+ already. When i tried to put the multiplier up to 18, prime crashed right away.

Another thing. In my bios i believe i reached the max voltage i can input, as +150mv seems to be the most i can do. Maybe im wrong though?

Thanks agian for your help!!

Do i get to be cool like you guys and have my name on those cool lists??


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *younggrasshoppa* 
This is my latest stable over clock. Any suggestions for tinkering would be great!!!

Younggrasshoppa, looking great buddy









Try lowering your HT Link speed so that it's not above the stock 2000Mhz frequency. By lowering that you may actually be able to achieve a higher cpu overclock. What is your NB Frequency sitting at?

Good luck


----------



## younggrasshoppa

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thlnk3r*


Younggrasshoppa, looking great buddy









Try lowering your HT Link speed so that it's not above the stock 2000Mhz frequency. By lowering that you may actually be able to achieve a higher cpu overclock. What is your NB Frequency sitting at?

Good luck


my NB frequency is set at 2200. To be honest i saw the most performance increase in games after increasing that. Increasing the proc frequency doesn't seem to have as much of a noticeable difference anywhere.

One more questions kind of off topic. what do you guys think would give me better performance in games 4gigs of ram running at 1066-1200 mhz (depending how well i can overclock it) or 8 gigs running at 880 mhz? 880 seems to be the fastest i can get stable

anyone looking for a good cheap heatsink the cooler master hyper 212 is amazing and its only 30$. when i bought it the guy at tiger direct said that that cooler did a way better job then the cooler master v10 which he had. I kind of find that hard to believe but the guy really had no reason to make that up. He didnt even serve me he was just randomly walking by and gave me his two cents about the cooler i was buying.

My MAX LOAD temps now are the same as my old IDLE TEMPS!! plus im clocked to 3.8 when i was at 3.5 on stock. Im new at this but that sounds pretty damn good for 30$

thanks alot for this thread again ive learned a lot trolling around here


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *younggrasshoppa*


my NB frequency is set at 2200. To be honest i saw the most performance increase in games after increasing that. Increasing the proc frequency doesn't seem to have as much of a noticeable difference anywhere.

One more questions kind of off topic. what do you guys think would give me better performance in games 4gigs of ram running at 1066-1200 mhz (depending how well i can overclock it) or 8 gigs running at 880 mhz? 880 seems to be the fastest i can get stable


Younggrasshoppa, that is absolutely true. Increasing the NB Frequency does show noticeable performance differences at the keyboard level and during gaming (heck even in benchmarks too!). Try increasing the frequency even more if you can. Anything over 2400Mhz and you may have to give it a +.200 increase in cpu-nb voltage.

In regards to your memory question, I think you would better off with 4GB and the higher memory frequency. Unless you are running a game/application that requires more than 4GB of memory then it's probably not needed. You should see a noticeable difference in memory benchmarks if you run low sub-timings and a high NB Freq. That's where good memory pays off (hence a lower CAS)









Hope that helps


----------



## younggrasshoppa

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thlnk3r*


Younggrasshoppa, that is absolutely true. Increasing the NB Frequency does show noticeable performance differences at the keyboard level and during gaming (heck even in benchmarks too!). Try increasing the frequency even more if you can. Anything over 2400Mhz and you may have to give it a +.200 increase in cpu-nb voltage.

In regards to your memory question, I think you would better off with 4GB and the higher memory frequency. Unless you are running a game/application that requires more than 4GB of memory then it's probably not needed. You should see a noticeable difference in memory benchmarks if you run low sub-timings and a high NB Freq. That's where good memory pays off (hence a lower CAS)









Hope that helps


OK im definently gonna try both your suggestions!! I really hope someone is paying you!


----------



## younggrasshoppa

Quote:



Originally Posted by *younggrasshoppa*


OK im definently gonna try both your suggestions!! I really hope someone is paying you!










I tried with 4 gigs and i pretty much had to start my overclock all over







. Ive decided ill stick with 8 and just see how much further i can get with the HT im up to 222


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *younggrasshoppa* 
I tried with 4 gigs and i pretty much had to start my overclock all over







. Ive decided ill stick with 8 and just see how much further i can get with the HT im up to 222









Younggrasshoppa, what type of issues did you run into with 4GB of memory? Are all sticks of memory "matching"? Meaning was this all one kit? You may want to avoid 8GB of memory only because it may increase the stress on your IMC during overclocking/testing. This usually results in instability. It's not common but can occur. It's easier to OC with just two sticks versus four.

Good luck


----------



## younggrasshoppa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thlnk3r* 
Younggrasshoppa, what type of issues did you run into with 4GB of memory? Are all sticks of memory "matching"? Meaning was this all one kit? You may want to avoid 8GB of memory only because it may increase the stress on your IMC during overclocking/testing. This usually results in instability. It's not common but can occur. It's easier to OC with just two sticks versus four.

Good luck









It seems like 880 with 2 sticks or 4 sticks seems to be the max i can get stable while ocing i can only get 1066 with a lower overall OC so i figure i may aswell just go with 8


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *younggrasshoppa* 
It seems like 880 with 2 sticks or 4 sticks seems to be the max i can get stable while ocing i can only get 1066 with a lower overall OC so i figure i may aswell just go with 8

Younggrasshoppa, what type of memory are you running? Do you have any cpu-z screen shots of your most recent stable overclock?

Good luck


----------



## younggrasshoppa

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thlnk3r*


Younggrasshoppa, what type of memory are you running? Do you have any cpu-z screen shots of your most recent stable overclock?

Good luck


ok here are a bunch of pics of pretty much everything im not 100% if this is stable but i find if if get through 15 mins of prime 90% of the time im stable and its still running now for 30+mins

one thing about the ram on i know the faster ram is set to run at 2.0v but for some reason even when is it in the machine alone it still runs at 1.8v. I think my motherboard is touchy with its ram speeds..

the first 3 pics are ram. last one is with prime and temps





































i dont think i can get it to go much faster 224 even with a NB volt increase i cant stay stable


----------



## logan

I think you've made a good choice there, and its mostly because the ram doesn't play a huge part in the performance of the system (high speed vs low speed). Usually the difference is somewhere around 2-5%. Its kind of strange that your OC got LOWER when you used less sticks of ram, which might indicate that there is something going wrong. However an OC of 3.8GHz with the NB OC'd to 2.2GHz and 8 gigs of ram is pretty good. I'd probably stick with that if its stable, since its not to likely that you'd notice the faster ram, and especially not if you have to give up some processor OC to get it.

Also, like I mentioned in the guide the NB can make a big difference when it is OC'd, and that is one of the things that you can miss out on when you OC with the multiplier alone. Usually the best performance comes from high NB OC's and tight timings on the ram.

Good luck man, and yes, thlnk3r is amazing. Its people like him that make OCN a great place


----------



## younggrasshoppa

Quote:



Originally Posted by *logan*


I think you've made a good choice there, and its mostly because the ram doesn't play a huge part in the performance of the system (high speed vs low speed). Usually the difference is somewhere around 2-5%. Its kind of strange that your OC got LOWER when you used less sticks of ram, which might indicate that there is something going wrong. However an OC of 3.8GHz with the NB OC'd to 2.2GHz and 8 gigs of ram is pretty good. I'd probably stick with that if its stable, since its not to likely that you'd notice the faster ram, and especially not if you have to give up some processor OC to get it.

Also, like I mentioned in the guide the NB can make a big difference when it is OC'd, and that is one of the things that you can miss out on when you OC with the multiplier alone. Usually the best performance comes from high NB OC's and tight timings on the ram.

Good luck man, and yes, thlnk3r is amazing. Its people like him that make OCN a great place










Thinker is a a great man and you are not to shabby yourself sir!







.

So far still stable ill run it through the night. NB is definently where its at!!

and its 3.9 with NB at 223 now...


----------



## younggrasshoppa

i cant seem to get 3.9 stable for more then an hour. the NB bridge voltage doesnt seem to make a difference at all. I havent touched the chipset voltages would that increase stability by any chance?


----------



## thlnk3r

Logan, hey man









Quote:



Originally Posted by *younggrasshoppa*


i cant seem to get 3.9 stable for more then an hour. the NB bridge voltage doesnt seem to make a difference at all. I havent touched the chipset voltages would that increase stability by any chance?


Younggrasshoppa, I noticed in your last screen shot that your HT Link speed was at 2230Mhz? Try keeping that at 2000Mhz (stock) if you can. If this speed increases it can cause stability issues and possibly also prohibit you from overclocking your cpu.

Just to clarify it looks like you are running two different types of memory? I'm not sure if that is a wise thing to do only because you may run into timing issues and possibly even more if you decide to increase the memory frequency. Just a thought...

Good luck buddy


----------



## younggrasshoppa

for some reason when i manually set the HT to 2ghz its still reads at 223 or whatever i have the fsb and NB speeds set to when i boot.

Im aware of my ram but ive decided losing 4 gigs isnt worth the performance loss in boot and loading of random window just to get another 100 or so mhz out of it. i can get 8 gigs at 880 stable, without touching any of the ram settings whatsoever. I realized early that the whole ram OCing is over my head







for now at least

When i run with 4 gigs at 1066 i cant seem to get nearly as good an OC, overall 
(i know that strange but it seems to be the case my mobo is very touchy with ram speeds from what ive noticed). My board caps more then 4 gigs at 800mhz ive managed to get it to 880 only by increasing NB speed.


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *younggrasshoppa*


for some reason when i manually set the HT to 2ghz its still reads at 223 or whatever i have the fsb and NB speeds set to when i boot.


Younggrasshoppa, you should have these options available: [200Mhz], [400Mhz], [600Mhz], [800Mhz], [1Ghz], [2Ghz], [Auto]. After making the changes hit the F10 key. That should save the changes that you made.

Let us know

Good luck


----------



## younggrasshoppa

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thlnk3r* 
Younggrasshoppa, you should have these options available: [200Mhz], [400Mhz], [600Mhz], [800Mhz], [1Ghz], [2Ghz], [Auto]. After making the changes hit the F10 key. That should save the changes that you made.

Let us know

Good luck

correct i do have those options. But the moment i change my fsb/nb speeds it seems to take the same speed as my HT/CPU frequency which i will explain

to get my NB/FSB speeds to increase i have to increase my HT/CPU Frequency (<---exactly how its shown in my bios). I dont have the option in my bios to single out the FSB,NB speeds Those two options seem to be controled by the HT/CPU frequency option. It gets all lumped together into one option which i can change from 200-550. i hope that makes sense

I really think its my mobo and a crappy bios that are holding me back. but if 3.88 with ram @884 is where i get to im happy i didnt even know what overclocking was when i bought my machine


----------



## adrian537

very nice +++


----------



## EchoTomcat

This is a brilliant guide, thanks OCN!


----------



## Choggs396

Wow... great guide. If I ever get that PhII rig I've been itching to build, I definitely have a reference point to start overclocking. Excellent work.


----------



## jedispiderman

too much work, just lap your cpu get water cooling and enjoy 4ghz


----------



## MeatloafontheRadio

I've been overclocking my system and following the temperatures from Core Temp, CPUID Hardware Monitor and OCCT when I stress test.

However, I installed EVEREST today and I'm running a Prime 95 blend and getting this

CPU#1 - 43
CPU#2 - 43
CPU#3 - 43
CPU - 54

Why would by CPU temp be higher than my core temps, isn't it usually the other way around? Which temp should I be following?


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *MeatloafontheRadio* 
However, I installed EVEREST today and I'm running a Prime 95 blend and getting this

CPU#1 - 43
CPU#2 - 43
CPU#3 - 43
CPU - 54

Why would by CPU temp be higher than my core temps, isn't it usually the other way around? Which temp should I be following?

MeatloafontheRadio, the core temperatures are what is the most important. I believe the "cpu temp" is at the IHS level. This temperature is also usually a few degrees higher. If you decide to unlock your 720 then you can sometimes use this reading to gauge the other core temperatures. When unlocked the core temperatures may show up as "0". This unfortunately is a side effect of unlocking.

Hope that helps


----------



## MeatloafontheRadio

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thlnk3r* 
MeatloafontheRadio, the core temperatures are what is the most important. I believe the "cpu temp" is at the IHS level. This temperature is also usually a few degrees higher. If you decide to unlock your 720 then you can sometimes use this reading to gauge the other core temperatures. When unlocked the core temperatures may show up as "0". This unfortunately is a side effect of unlocking.

Hope that helps









So that being at 55 isn't really a concern then? I'm getting pretty nervous over here.


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MeatloafontheRadio*


So that being at 55 isn't really a concern then? I'm getting pretty nervous over here.










MeatloafontheRadio, no not at all. As I said the core temperatures are what is most important. Try not to exceed 55C on the cores (Core 1, Core 2 ect ect).

Hope that helps


----------



## MeatloafontheRadio

Great! Thank you, I guess my last question is... Since it's reporting the CPU higher, is it possible that it's reading my core temps wrong?


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MeatloafontheRadio*


Great! Thank you, I guess my last question is... Since it's reporting the CPU higher, is it possible that it's reading my core temps wrong?


MeatloafontheRadio, it's possible but highly unlikely. If you used several other temperature reporting applications and if they all reported the same reading then I think it's safe to say that the core temperatures are correct. The temperature you posted above (43C) looks about right for a normal full load Prime95 test. Is your room ambient temperature around 18-19C(66-68F)? The physical sensor in the processor could be faulty too but I have yet to hear that occur that happening with these processors.

Good luck


----------



## MeatloafontheRadio

The thermostat says 68 degrees. However when I was at stock I had seen this thing go below ambient? That temp (43degreegs) is with this thing extremely overclocked.

When it was stock It seemed to stay around 18 a majority of the time, Core temp said my low was 15 though.


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MeatloafontheRadio*


However when I was at stock I had seen this thing go below ambient?


MeatloafontheRadio, are you referring to core temperatures or the cpu temp? You shouldn't be seeing your temperatures go below ambients. If this is the case then it could be an indication of a faulty sensor...

Good luck


----------



## Quantum Reality

Do AMD CPUs even have a TJMax like Intel CPUs do? How does temperature monitoring work exactly? The sparseness of the documentation on how these core temp readouts work is very frustrating for people who want to avoid damaging their CPUs by accidentally going over the rated maximum safe temperature.


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Quantum Reality* 
Do AMD CPUs even have a TJMax like Intel CPUs do? How does temperature monitoring work exactly? The sparseness of the documentation on how these core temp readouts work is very frustrating for people who want to avoid damaging their CPUs by accidentally going over the rated maximum safe temperature.

Quantum Reality, good question. It would be nice to see the documentation on this. I've always followed the "core temperatures" and just ignored the cpu temp. Really though I don't think any harm can come from high temperatures. What is probably more important is over-voltage which could eventually lead to electromigration. Exceeding the thermal limit in my experience only results in a lockup/freeze. I also believe those advertised thermal specs are underrated.

Good luck


----------



## MeatloafontheRadio

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thlnk3r* 
MeatloafontheRadio, are you referring to core temperatures or the cpu temp? You shouldn't be seeing your temperatures go below ambients. If this is the case then it could be an indication of a faulty sensor...

Good luck

Core temps. Stayed around 18C most of the time but seen it drop to 14-15 a few times.


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MeatloafontheRadio*


Core temps. Stayed around 18C most of the time but seen it drop to 14-15 a few times.


MeatloafontheRadio, that doesn't seem right especially if it's going below room ambients (20C). I think the sensors on this board could be faulty.


----------



## MeatloafontheRadio

I am going to go back to stock and see what it says.


----------



## MeatloafontheRadio

Went back to stock.

Seen it drop to 17 in everest. CPU Core & Hardware Monitor showed it as 18.


----------



## Chris++

Quick question from a newbie(ish) Overclocker, is it sane wishing to overclock a Phenom II 550 BE to 4 ghz on air WHILE having the extra 2 cores unlocked?

Just considering my options for a new build...


----------



## MeatloafontheRadio

Now, I understand that the thermal temp's sensors become more accurate as they heat up. However the fact that it reads idle temps a few degree's off worries me. Should I update my bios?


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Isleptwithyourmotherboard* 
Quick question from a newbie(ish) Overclocker, is it sane wishing to overclock a Phenom II 550 BE to 4 ghz on air WHILE having the extra 2 cores unlocked?

Just considering my options for a new build...

Isleptwithyourmotherboard, it's certainly possible. Quite a few users have done it in the 550BE Club. Though I think you have less luck with unlocking a 550BE then you do on reaching 4Ghz stable. However both can be difficult. The new 555 C3 is not out yet but rumor has it that this C3 stepping will yield a higher percentage in unlocks









Quote:


Originally Posted by *MeatloafontheRadio* 
Now, I understand that the thermal temp's sensors become more accurate as they heat up. However the fact that it reads idle temps a few degree's off worries me. Should I update my bios?

MeatloafontheRadio, I would give it a shot. The above temperature readings can't be correct. I have a feeling the board is to blame. Direct link to the bios page for your board: http://www.gigabyte.us/Support/Mothe...3145#anchor_os

Good luck


----------



## MeatloafontheRadio

this is what someone told me on another forum

These sensors are calibrated to be accurate at the temperatures where the CPU's thermal protection features kick in, so the closer you get to that point, the more accurate the sensors will be.

and

Below 30C the sensors are not very accurate. Its one of the reasons we are mainly concerned about load temps. Bragging rights with the machine sitting doing nothing (which for a long time a lot of people here held a lot of stock in, and occasionly we still get a "it idles 3C over ambinet, yea me !" posts) are dubious at best.

that being said, the bios update did not help


----------



## Quantum Reality

Ok, so basically it works like Intel's does in which they don't bother calibrating to idle, they care about accurate readout close to shutdown. OK, so the cores readout under load should be fine provided that the monitoring program itself is correctly interpreting the temps.


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MeatloafontheRadio*


that being said, the bios update did not help


Meatloaf, I wouldn't worry about it. The Prime95 temperature readings you posted a page back look correct (43C). The idle temperatures are probably the only ones that are not accurate. Idle temps aren't all that important.

Good luck


----------



## MeatloafontheRadio

Thanks for the help!


----------



## Doodies

I would still personally go by the cpu temp, I still think the Core temps are reading incorrectly on these cpus 720be and 550be.

This post describes what is happening perfectly.

http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/62...ml#post7916863

The computer is set to shut off at 60c but his cores are only hitting 47-48 and his motherboards cpu temp is only hitting 55-57.

What is normal for temperature readings is for the core temp to be about 2-5c hotter than the cpu temp reading given by the motherboard. Therfore his cpu is actually hitting 60c and the core temps are off by roughly 10c.

People seem to think that core temps are 100% accurate which is just not the case.

Here is a post from Coretemps programmers own forum. Which states that for a number of cpu the temps are inaccurate and suggests using cpu temperature sensor built into the motherboard instead of Coretemp. This of coarse is just an example.

http://www.alcpu.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=374

If this was just an isolated incident where 2 or 3 people had their cpu temps higher than the core temps by roughly 10c than I wouldn't give much thought. It just seems almost more common to have this problem than to not.

I see people with there cpu overclocked to 3.7c @1.55v and they have temps of 25c idle and 35c load on air. To me that just doesn't make any sense, no matter how good your air cooling is.


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Doodies* 
I see people with there cpu overclocked to 3.7c @1.55v and they have temps of 25c idle and 35c load on air. To me that just doesn't make any sense, no matter how good your air cooling is.

Doodies, the motherboard may also be to blame for the abnormal low temperatures. It's possible that the sensors may not be accurately calibrated. Unless your a engineer working for both sides there is no way to be certain. Though how would "cpu temp" be any way to gauge how hot your processor is running? I thought that was a separate reading (at the IHS level) from the "cores" which are the most important to monitor?


----------



## Chris++

Hmm, just my 2 cents but why not invest in a nice Infrared thermometer? I know for a fact they are used a lot in development of electronic devices, I bet they could come in handy to better compare the readings of the CPU temp with reality.

I've seen them go for as low as 50 bucks, so It could come in handy...


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Isleptwithyourmotherboard* 
Hmm, just my 2 cents but why not invest in a nice Infrared thermometer? I know for a fact they are used a lot in development of electronic devices, I bet they could come in handy to better compare the readings of the CPU temp with reality.

I've seen them go for as low as 50 bucks, so It could come in handy...

Isleptwithyourmotherboard, that's a great idea actually. If only we could bypass the IHS and see how warm the "die" is really running. Might be difficult with a cooler mounted on top though


----------



## Doodies

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thlnk3r*


Doodies, *the motherboard may also be to blame for the abnormal low temperatures.* It's possible that the sensors may not be accurately calibrated. Unless your a engineer working for both sides there is no way to be certain.* Though how would "cpu temp" be any way to gauge how hot your processor is running? I thought that was a separate reading (at the IHS level) from the "cores" which are the most important to monitor?*


The motherboard isn't displaying the low temperatures it is the core temperature readings from the cpu that are unusually low.

The cpu temp reading is indeed further away from the core which is why it shouldn't be reading warmer than the core temperatures. Core temperatures in most cases are 2-5c warmer than the cpu readings.

I have seen numerous examples showing this odd behavior and all of them are 720BE and 550BE processors.


----------



## Doodies

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thlnk3r* 
Isleptwithyourmotherboard, that's a great idea actually. If only we could bypass the IHS and see how warm the "die" is really running. Might be difficult with a cooler mounted on top though









Pointing it at the base of the HSF will be sufficient enough to show that these core temperature readings are incorrect. It wont give you the the hottest point of the cpu but if it is even 1-2c warmer than what core temp is displaying, than core temp is giving false readings.

I do have one of those infrared sensors lying around somewhere but haven't been able to find it. I did test this with the thermal probe on my case and it did indeed show the core temp cooler than one of the heatpipes on my HSF which isn't possible.


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Doodies*


The motherboard isn't displaying the low temperatures it is the core temperature readings from the cpu that are unusually low.


Doodies, I'm referring to the motherboard not able to properly read what the processor is reporting in terms of temperatures.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Doodies*


The cpu temp reading is indeed further away from the core which is why it shouldn't be reading warmer than the core temperatures. Core temperatures in most cases are 2-5c warmer than the cpu readings.


Are you sure this *only *occurs on the 720BE and 550BE? I have also noticed high "cpu temps" on other Deneb processors. The 720BE and 550BE are no different then the other Deneb processors (minus their supposed faulty cores). Just yesterday I believe a user was wondering the same about their 965BE C3...

Good luck


----------



## its my first time

The core temp should be higher than the cpu it's as simple as that.









Although my 550 used to show the cpu temp as higher than core temp, but if any cpu does that it's a dodgy sensor, or dodgy software.


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *its my first time*


The core temp should be higher than the cpu it's as simple as that.










The point of this discussion is about how the cpu temp reading is more important than the core temp reading. What documentation are we suppose to refer to that properly describes and indicates which readings to follow? That is the question I have. I'd just assume "core" temperature be the most important seeming it's...well the _core _









Quote:



Originally Posted by *its my first time*


Although my 550 used to show the cpu temp as higher than core temp, but if any cpu does that it's a dodgy sensor, or dodgy software.


If that is the case then there is a lot of "dodgy" sensors. Don't forget also the motherboard might be at fault too and not necessarily the processor. We can't always assume a abnormal high temperature is a sensor fault...


----------



## tlxxxsracer

How should you use to OC, BIOS.. or I can use Turbo V.. I have an ASUS mobo.
Im still confused on when I should run a stability test. Do I run a 5min test after every step on the multiplier or what?


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tlxxxsracer*


Im still confused on when I should run a stability test. Do I run a 5min test after every step on the multiplier or what?


Tlxxxsracer, it's up to you on how long you want to test. During my testing I usually run OCCT for about 1hr. If it passes then I continue to overclock. For any changes you make to your overclock I would recommend testing regardless. Some users like to ramp the clocks up until they run into stability issues. That will give you somewhat of a baseline on when you can start stress testing.

Hope that helps


----------



## tlxxxsracer

Should I do it through the BIOS or can I use a program I got with ASUS or something? Say if Its not stable after I OC it, and I use a program.. will I run into a problem changing the settings seeing it overrides the BIOS basically?


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


Originally Posted by *tlxxxsracer* 
Should I do it through the BIOS or can I use a program I got with ASUS or something? Say if Its not stable after I OC it, and I use a program.. will I run into a problem changing the settings seeing it overrides the BIOS basically?

Always use the bios. My opinion and what I have always been advised.


----------



## tlxxxsracer

Okay, can you explain why that is? Just seems more of a hassle


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *tlxxxsracer*


Okay, can you explain why that is? Just seems more of a hassle


Tlxxxsracer, the variety of options available in the bios are very useful. Some of the options in the bios are not available via Software. Also you might risk getting data corruption while overclocking in Windows. Far too many times have I seen this with (for example) clockgen.

Hope that helps


----------



## NexusUK

I found this which has A1 test data: 
http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=56715

Low latency is king, memory speed is fine at 1333. Not bandwidth limited.
HTH


----------



## Freakn

Bios overclocking is by far the only truly stable way to overclock...

If you asked any of the hardcore clockers here they'd all say the same thing


----------



## Maximous

Hey folks.

Ive oced my cpu to 3.85Ghz now. Stable with prime small 10 hours and blend for 12 hours. Memtest84+ for 12 hours. But while playing css im getting a bsod after a while. Been testing with cod6 and havent gotten into trouble yet. Ive tried different things but cant get any further since css is the game a play the most.

Anybody had the same problem?

Howcome im getting through prime but when playing css im bsod?

Are there any spsific place in this forum where i can get help with bsod codes?

I can give more details if needed.

In advance, Thnx...


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maximous* 
Anybody had the same problem?

Howcome im getting through prime but when playing css im bsod?

Are there any spsific place in this forum where i can get help with bsod codes?

I can give more details if needed.

Maximous, have you tried running any passes with Furmark just to make sure your video card isn't overheating? Does CS:S lockup while at stock settings?

Let us know

Good luck


----------



## Maximous

Hello thinker.

No i havent got any problem when im at stock. But i can try furmark just to check it out. But i think that also would be strange because i belive that cod6 will USE more of the grafic card than css. Im getting mental soooon
















Let u know how furmark goes...

Thnx


----------



## logan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maximous* 
Hello thinker.

No i havent got any problem when im at stock. But i can try furmark just to check it out. But i think that also would be strange because i belive that cod6 will USE more of the grafic card than css. Im getting mental soooon
















Let u know how furmark goes...

Thnx

Have you tried looking at the event viewer logs (under administrative tools). Do those give any sort of insight to the issue at hand?

The suggestion to check the GPU is a good one, so lets see how that all goes.

also, have you tried running orthos or any other stress tester WHILE running something like furmark? That could tell a better story than just running furmark, because while furmark stresses the cards well, running orthos/OCCT/Prime95 would also use the CPU more while will heat up the case more as well. In other words, it would be more like gaming







.

Good luck


----------



## cloudcws

I have unlocked my 550BE.
Would anyone please suggest a cooler that can cool off the unlocked processor?
I have CM212+ in mind,which has quite high C/P value.
Please do let me know is there any better ones.
I scare CM212+ might not be able to cool off the 4 core proc and I am thinking to OC to at least 3.8GHz.


----------



## logan

There are plenty of good coolers out there for you to choose from, but first, what is your budget? There are many good ones in the $30-$50 range.

Look through these reviews and charts, and I bet you 'll find something that you like that is in your price range.

http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...&limitstart=11

This one is a preview of a review for the AM3 socket... it was done on a 4GHz PhII 965, so those results will be close to what you should expect. The review will be finished after CES is done later this week







.
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.ph...&limitstart=11

Cheers!


----------



## Maximous

Hoy hoy.

Ive run furmark for only 2-3 hours but no problem there(im usually getting bsod before that time. And im not playing that long continuasly). Ive not tried to run prime and furmark together yet. ill do that overnight. Ive got one other question though, how much vdrop could i expext? Im at 1.55v now and under load it varies from 1.50 to 1.52. Could this be the explenation?


----------



## logan

Usually vdroop isn't as big of a problem for AMD's, and often times there will be fluctuation in the reporting. Personally I wouldn't worry about it to much. Besides, I don't think that CS:S should be using more power than Prime95







.

Let us know how furmark + prime95 goes.

Good luck


----------



## thlnk3r

Hey Logan!









Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maximous* 
Ive run furmark for only 2-3 hours but no problem there(im usually getting bsod before that time. And im not playing that long continuasly). Ive not tried to run prime and furmark together yet. ill do that overnight. Ive got one other question though, how much vdrop could i expext? Im at 1.55v now and under load it varies from 1.50 to 1.52. Could this be the explenation?

Maximous, as Logan mentioned I wouldn't worry about the voltage drops. This actually happens quite often on many AMD boards. Shoot I don't know how many boards I've had were I've watched this occur during load. You have a pretty beefy PSU too so I wouldn't worry about "power requirements".

Perhaps the CS:S issue is in the application itself. Are you running any custom skins, sounds, models ect? Did you do anything in the console (ie. commands)?

Good luck


----------



## Maximous

Hei guys.

I set the furmark an dblend prime over night but when i woke up ive bsod. I know for sure i ran the test for two hours, but not sure when i bsod. It might be something with the app it self, I really dont know. Im admin in one of the servers im playing on(different skin etc.) but i really dont think its that. Then it should happend at stock also. Could it be heat related? Nah, im maxing 53 load on prime blend, But avg 51. Thinnking of getting a c3 instead of this noughty c2














.

Well if u guys have any other solutions about the furmark/prime thing, then let me know.

Thnx xDDDDD


----------



## cloudcws

Thanks for your links,Logan.
However,I notified something.
There isn't CM212+ listed in there.So sad.
Haha.
I am still unsure of my budget.
I am trying to get one cooler that can cool off the 4 core monster and to OC it to around 3.8 GHz.
I will try update myself until CES is over.
Hope they could put in more coolers that are available in Malaysia.
There aren't many top coolers that are on the second list available over here.


----------



## thlnk3r

Maximous, the only other thing you can try is completely uninstalling/deleting the game content and Steam. Perform a clean installation of Steam and CS:S and see if that helps. Do you have AA or AF enabled in the graphic settings?

Good luck


----------



## Maximous

Im gonna try to turn of the aa. If that doesnt work ill try to uninstall steam and reinstall. Let u know the outcome.
xDD


----------



## Maximous

Hei again. I just made this discoery yesterday. I must be the worst rig builder ever:/. 
When building this sig rig i forgot to think about cablemanagwement and psu. I thought it could be the answer to my question here but sadly noooooooo. On my modular psu i had connected ALL my hardware on one side of the psu. I think its 40a-40a. So I dived into the case and got the gradic card on the other side and tested with prime blend and furmark to gether. I know for sure it ran 3 hours without problem but when i woke up today it had shut down again. DAMN!!! And ive ran prime blend alone for 20 hours yesterday. No problem what so ever. Could this be a faulty grafic card???

Gonna test with my old 8800GT card later today.

So then I still have to try to uninstall and download steam and its contents.

How do u seperate your cables on the psu???

40a: mobo, ram, hdd, dvd????
40: grafics, fans?????

Thanx


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maximous*


And ive ran prime blend alone for 20 hours yesterday. No problem what so ever. Could this be a faulty grafic card???

Gonna test with my old 8800GT card later today.

So then I still have to try to uninstall and download steam and its contents.

How do u seperate your cables on the psu???

40a: mobo, ram, hdd, dvd????
40: grafics, fans?????


Maximous, just to clarify you ran Furmark overnight and the machine locked up? The only thing that comes to mind is temperature issues which I believe you have already verified during testing?

In regards to the psu cable question are you referring to cable management or power requirements?

Good luck


----------



## logan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *thlnk3r*


Maximous, just to clarify you ran Furmark overnight and the machine locked up? The only thing that comes to mind is temperature issues which I believe you have already verified during testing?

In regards to the psu cable question are you referring to cable management or power requirements?

Good luck


I believe he is asking about power requirements.

For the PSU power requirements and which "rail" to run things on and how to divide the power draw onto those rails...

Most PSU's (even the ones that say they have more than one 12v rail) actually share a common 12v rail "backbone" that they all draw from. It is wise to split them up anyway, but you don't generally run into issues with to much amperage being pulled from one of the rails and not the others.

I personally Don't think it is an issue with the power being drawn unequally from the PSU. Furmark is a VERY intest GPU testing tool, and it is known for making the temperatures run much hotter than they would be under normal circumstances. My guess is that the GPU is overheating (probably the VRMs, as I've heard that furmark can actually be damaging to GPU's if run for to long), and causing the computer to shutdown. Especially if you've already confirmed that you've had previous overheating issues.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Good luck


----------



## Maximous

Hey thinker and logan.

It was the power requirements i was refering to. Just wondering how U guys divide the hardware on a psu.

And for the question about furmark: I ran furmark and prime blend at the same time. For sure it ran 3 hours without problems. But when i woke up it had restarted.

Should i up the rpm on fan gpu? Think max temp before i went to bed was 65C. Isnt the max temp for 295 gtx 80C?

Edit: Ill be gone for some hours now. Mounting push/pull and lap my PhII and Northq watercooler.


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maximous*


And for the question about furmark: I ran furmark and prime blend at the same time. For sure it ran 3 hours without problems. But when i woke up it had restarted.

Should i up the rpm on fan gpu? Think max temp before i went to bed was 65C. Isnt the max temp for 295 gtx 80C?

Edit: Ill be gone for some hours now. Mounting push/pull and lap my PhII and Northq watercooler.


Maximous, I recommend just running Furmark by itself for now. Hopefully that will let us determine whether or not the video card is the culprit. That full load temperature is not all that bad. I'm assuming this card still has it's stock cooler? Increasing the airflow inside of your case could also help those temperatures.

Let us know

Good luck


----------



## Maximous

Hey.

Yes its stock cooling on grafics. But it will be a while before ill be doing anything with my rig. Had leakage yeasterday. Psu shortage and i belive grafics also. Im gonna test later tonight with stock cooling, just to see if anything else is damaged. Unlucky i belive. Rig wasnt older than 1 month.

Do U know if its easy to fix/change part on grfics? Im not gonna do it







.

Thnx


----------



## logan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maximous*


Hey.

Yes its stock cooling on grafics. But it will be a while before ill be doing anything with my rig. Had leakage yeasterday. Psu shortage and i belive grafics also. Im gonna test later tonight with stock cooling, just to see if anything else is damaged. Unlucky i belive. Rig wasnt older than 1 month.

Do U know if its easy to fix/change part on grfics? Im not gonna do it







.

Thnx


Ouch, nobody likes leakage. Hopefully it didn't kill anything.

And unfortunately I don't know how to fix anything on a GPU (I'm not that skilled with a soldering iron.

Good luck with everything.


----------



## thlnk3r

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Maximous* 

Do U know if its easy to fix/change part on grfics? Im not gonna do it

Maximous, if the electrolytic/polymer capacitors are damaged then those can be replaced.

Your cpu cooling says "stock" so what exactly leaked? Did you have an actual water leak in your home? Ouchy =\\

Good luck


----------



## Maximous

Nah is was mounting push/pull on rad and i thought to "save time i just use one , eh screw?, through the case-through the fan and into the rad. Everthing locked fine, So what the hell, i started the pc with everything connected and suddenly water flows out of the rad and into the psu and i can see that some, Actually a drop, had landed on grafic card. I can see that some of the smallest things on that drop spott is black like melted sugar. So U think theres hope? Going to the repshop tomorrow mornig to see if its reperable. Is that a word? Lol. So what i need is a new psu and def a new rad. Thinking of mod it so im going to follow one of the guides in here. Its acctually for h50 cooler, but its almost the same. So now im running with my old 8800gt card and a 450w psu







. Heartbroken


----------



## thlnk3r

Maximous, the video card may not necessarily be damaged. Did you try testing it? If anything that got in contact with water was "off" then it should be fine just as long as it drys. Now having the equipment plugged in and powered on is a totally different story









Good luck


----------



## Inuzukakiba2

Just a friendly suggestion: the links under the Do you have proper cooling? section link to the 2nd page.


----------



## Maximous

Mmmm. So im finaly back in action. After my leakage I finaly took the step to check if my grafics got demolished. Hey hey, its f... amazing. Its alive. So i bought a new 1000 corsair psu and some new rads and other stuff. Ended up modding my Northq nq3590. Its on leakage testing and im gonna implement in case tonight. Hoping my temps will drop 5-10c. since last testing i have lapped cpu and wb, push/pull with shrouds, 2 rads with new fans. Let U folks know how it goes.









Here are some pics when leaktesting...


----------



## Maximous

Yo ALL!!!

And here is the finished product:

Ran prime for 1.5 hours, the same i ran with the old gear. Same setting: 3.81Ghz @ 1.512v. Same ambient 24c- idle:24c load 41c (old load was 52c). So YES Im damn HAPPY.

Could have done some of the tubing a little different, but what the heck. Im satisfied!!!

Irecommend all with the nq3590 to do the same


----------



## Rains

*delete this post*


----------



## Strangg1

Great thread, thank you for posting. I have a Phenom II BE on the way I'm plannig to overclock. I haven't done any serious overclockign in ages, so this helps. Thank you.

~S


----------



## Mitche01

Very Useful and clear i achieved the CPU-Z attached.

The limiting factor is my chipset Nforce 520 has only allowed a HT of 1000Mhz.

I really want a ASUS M4N82 Deluxe to get the most from my Phenom II X4 940 AM2+


----------



## logan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mitche01*


Very Useful and clear i achieved the CPU-Z attached.

The limiting factor is my chipset Nforce 520 has only allowed a HT of 1000Mhz.

I really want a ASUS M4N82 Deluxe to get the most from my Phenom II X4 940 AM2+


Thank you (and Strangg1) for letting me know this was useful to you. It means alot to me that people actually find my efforts useful in some way.

Interestingly enough, your results are similar to what mine were (My 720 BE maxed out at 3.6GHz on this board) and I also use an older nvidia chipset.

I've heard others say that you might get more of an OC out of your chip with an AMD motherboard, but I havn't been able to confirm or deny that at this point.

Also, what are your temps, because at 1.44v you might still have some headroom left.

Good luck, and welcome to the forums, this place is great.


----------



## Mitche01

I say useful as it gave me more confidence to push voltages and memory timings.

With respect to temperature - i am idle now at 55 and 68 fully loaded. So air cooling with a Zalman 9500 is at its max potential. I think i will upgrade this along with my motherboard to a Corsair H50 water cooler.

Yeah the 720BE is just a 940BE with one core disabled so I can understand why we got similar results on the same older chipset.


----------



## top4874

Thanks for a great guide. I had never quite understood how to OC my CPU, nor did I have the courage. After reading your info something clicked and I thought I would give it a shot. It wasn't as bad as I thought. I haven't ventured into OC the RAM yet, so the hard part is probably ahead of me.

As far as stability testing goes, how does IntelBurnTest rank in the mix? A few of the sites that I visit swear by it. Others never mention it. I know it will peak my temps well and seems to give me a good idea on the settings I am using, but could it be used in the place of Prime95? The reason I ask is that I rarely have 6-12hrs to let my CPU Prime during the day and my CPU is in my bedroom, so Prime overnight if out of the question (married guys will understand my pain on this one







).

Also, on a side note. I have a 720 BE that I unlocked the 4th core and after a slight voltage bump and a few tweaks, have been able to OC it. Problem is that I can't monitor the temps. I have HWMonitor, CoreTemps, and I tried Rivatuner (but couldn't figure it out) with no results. On HWMonitor I am pretty sure that TMPIN2 is the CPU Socket sensor and it tends to run 5-8C* higher that any of the core temps when I had it running just 3 cores. It maxed out at 60C* on the last IBT i ran on max 20x. So I feel pretty confident that my temps are within an acceptable range, but I would like to be able to verify them. Is there a way to actually see them or am I just stuck guesstimating?

Thanks again for a great informative guide. The way you explain things help idiots like me understand things so much better.


----------



## logan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *top4874* 
Thanks for a great guide. I had never quite understood how to OC my CPU, nor did I have the courage. After reading your info something clicked and I thought I would give it a shot. It wasn't as bad as I thought. I haven't ventured into OC the RAM yet, so the hard part is probably ahead of me.

As far as stability testing goes, how does IntelBurnTest rank in the mix? A few of the sites that I visit swear by it. Others never mention it. I know it will peak my temps well and seems to give me a good idea on the settings I am using, but could it be used in the place of Prime95? The reason I ask is that I rarely have 6-12hrs to let my CPU Prime during the day and my CPU is in my bedroom, so Prime overnight if out of the question (married guys will understand my pain on this one







).

Also, on a side note. I have a 720 BE that I unlocked the 4th core and after a slight voltage bump and a few tweaks, have been able to OC it. Problem is that I can't monitor the temps. I have HWMonitor, CoreTemps, and I tried Rivatuner (but couldn't figure it out) with no results. On HWMonitor I am pretty sure that TMPIN2 is the CPU Socket sensor and it tends to run 5-8C* higher that any of the core temps when I had it running just 3 cores. It maxed out at 60C* on the last IBT i ran on max 20x. So I feel pretty confident that my temps are within an acceptable range, but I would like to be able to verify them. Is there a way to actually see them or am I just stuck guesstimating?

Thanks again for a great informative guide. The way you explain things help idiots like me understand things so much better.









Glad that I could help you get your feet wet with OCin, and really, its not all that bad once you get into it (as you're already noticing).

As far as stability testing goes, I have never actually used IntelBurnTest, and it wasn't until semi-recently(6 months or so ago) that I heard about it. From what I hear, it is an extremely intensive CPU stress tester, its origins are totally different than that of prime95 (which was not designed as a stress tester, but it just so happens to be great at that).

You can read about some various OCN'ers think about it HERE. The general consensus seems to be that while its great at stressing the CPU (more so than is possible than pretty much any other program... its kinda like the furmark of CPU tests if you're familiar with that program. The only complaint I hear about it is that it doesn't really stress the memory much.

From what it sounds like, it would be great to test the OC while you're progressing with the OC, but then you'd want to check for stability with something else in addition to about 10 passes of IBT.

I hear you about the having time for testing the OC... I don't think my wife would appreciate the site and sound of my rig running prime95 all night while we tried to sleep...

You're not alone with the temp reporting problems, and worse yet, there doesn't appear to be much that you can do about them in terms of software (like the old brisbane X2's). Your best bet is using an IR gun pointed at the base of the HS, or guesstemation like you've been doing.

*Another 'really' rough way to check temps is with the BIOS. The BIOS for some reason seems to be a 60-80% static load on the CPU. So you can check your BIOS temps (which are usually correct) and then figure out what the 100% load temps would be (you'll end up with a range of temps if you use 60% and 80%). At the very least this should help confirm if your other guesstimations have been close.

Anyway, sorry for the wall of text. And also, I just tried to write this so I could understand it, and then hoped that everyone else could make sense of it. Because if I can understand it...









Cheers!


----------



## Mitche01

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Mitche01*


Very Useful and clear i achieved the CPU-Z attached.

The limiting factor is my chipset Nforce 520 has only allowed a HT of 1000Mhz.

I really want a ASUS M4N82 Deluxe to get the most from my Phenom II X4 940 AM2+


UPDATE - I am now stable at 3.62Ghz with the FSB set to 213Mhz and multiplier up to 17 core voltage at 1.40V. temps are a high 59 deg when fully loaded and 39/40 when idle. I have modified the air flow by tidying up the cable runs and allowing a better intake of the air (removed the Floppy Drive!) Sound levels are still low and acceptable. I managed to get my GTX275 to 700Mhz GPU and 1210Mhz memory so bioshock plays and looks amazing!

Cheers


----------



## valverguy86

helpfull guide, appreciate it


----------



## CRizzy141

I just built my first PC, and will be trying my hand at overclocking after finals are done next week. This will be helpful, thanks.


----------



## CDRacingZX6R

First off, just want to say thanks Logan for putting this thread together. It was very informative!

Using this guide so far I managed to get my unlocked X3 720 pushing 3.6ghz. I'm using the Scythe Mugen 2 cooler, and under load my temps stay in the early 40's, to mid 40's.

I seem to hit a wall and was wondering if anyone has suggestions on how I can squeeze a bit more out of it. I'm thinking my ram timings may be the problem, but I'm not sure. Right now my settings are:

The are my settings at the highest I can get them without losing stability (Tested under prime):

CPU core multipler @ 18X
CPU voltage @ 1.4250
NB VID @ 1.2000
Memory VDDQ @ 1.900
NB Core @ 1.100
HT Reference clock @ 200
Crucial ram (4G) with timings of 4-4-4-12 @ clock 3.33 (667 mhz)
BFG GS series 550 watt PSU (80 percent efficient )
Diamond Radeon 5850 (Stock settings)

When attempting to play around with different settings, the types of stability issues I encounter is a reboot, or if not a reboot the blue screen of death with a physical memory dump.

Any suggestions, or should I just be happy I got it running stable at 3.6? It seems like it's running cool enough I can run it higher without worry of stability or damage. But maybe I'm just being greedy.


----------



## logan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *CDRacingZX6R*


First off, just want to say thanks Logan for putting this thread together. It was very informative!

Using this guide so far I managed to get my unlocked X3 720 pushing 3.6ghz. I'm using the Scythe Mugen 2 cooler, and under load my temps stay in the early 40's, to mid 40's.

I seem to hit a wall and was wondering if anyone has suggestions on how I can squeeze a bit more out of it. I'm thinking my ram timings may be the problem, but I'm not sure. Right now my settings are:

The are my settings at the highest I can get them without losing stability (Tested under prime):

CPU core multipler @ 18X
CPU voltage @ 1.4250
NB VID @ 1.2000
Memory VDDQ @ 1.900
NB Core @ 1.100
HT Reference clock @ 200
Crucial ram (4G) with timings of 4-4-4-12 @ clock 3.33 (667 mhz)
BFG GS series 550 watt PSU (80 percent efficient )
Diamond Radeon 5850 (Stock settings)

When attempting to play around with different settings, the types of stability issues I encounter is a reboot, or if not a reboot the blue screen of death with a physical memory dump.

Any suggestions, or should I just be happy I got it running stable at 3.6? It seems like it's running cool enough I can run it higher without worry of stability or damage. But maybe I'm just being greedy.


Glad I could help out







.

Ok, so right now your ram isn't the source of your instability. You're OCin with the CPU multiplier, so its not affecting any of the other settings other than CPU speed. Does that make sense?

In other words, if you were using the reference clock to overclock, you would need to mess around with your ram settings to keep them at the stock speed. But because you're not doing that, you shouldn't need to worry about it.

I would actually venture to guess that your voltage is to low. 1.425v is pretty low for 3.6GHz on an unlocked 720 BE. I would think that you could try increasing the vcore a bit more and see if that helps.

Good luck


----------



## CDRacingZX6R

Quote:


Originally Posted by *logan* 
Glad I could help out







.

Ok, so right now your ram isn't the source of your instability. You're OCin with the CPU multiplier, so its not affecting any of the other settings other than CPU speed. Does that make sense?

In other words, if you were using the reference clock to overclock, you would need to mess around with your ram settings to keep them at the stock speed. But because you're not doing that, you shouldn't need to worry about it.

I would actually venture to guess that your voltage is to low. 1.425v is pretty low for 3.6GHz on an unlocked 720 BE. I would think that you could try increasing the vcore a bit more and see if that helps.

Good luck


OOPS.









Well that makes sense. I was messing around with my ram timings trying to get it to work and it didn't make any difference. Haha. I think I got confused because originally I overclocked it using the other method, which worked well. But this multiplier method seemed more simplistic so I went over to that.

I'll increase the voltage to the CPU and see if I can get a bit more out of her.

Thanks!


----------



## sharpshoooter82

yo


----------



## Boxey

I'm currently at x 19.5 and about 210, this is giving me 4.1ghz on a AMD 555BE unlocked to a 4 core, I've got the cpu voltage at 1.56V. at this voltage it seems stable and did a full prime95 test, temp not higher than 48Â°C full load.

is this voltage a bit high ?


----------



## logan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Boxey* 
I'm currently at x 19.5 and about 210, this is giving me 4.1ghz on a AMD 555BE unlocked to a 4 core, I've got the cpu voltage at 1.56V. at this voltage it seems stable and did a full prime95 test, temp not higher than 48Â°C full load.

is this voltage a bit high ?

That voltage is a bit high, but unfortuneately there isn't really a concrete barrier that defines what voltage is considered to be safe.

The general consensus is that anything over 1.55v is starting to move from the the safe easy OC's, to the "isn't it fun to OC" area where you might start to damage things. The problem is really that each chip is different, and while that OC and voltage might be fine for YOUR chip, it might not be for others. So I'm sure your chip could run at that speed for quite some time, but you would likely loose some sort of longevity doing so. I just can't say how much.

Its your own call of course, and your temps really are quite good, but I think I would _*personally*_ bring it down a notch for my 24/7 OC, and only ramp it up to 4.1GHz for benching or similar tasks.

But thats just my









Great OC btw.

Cheers!


----------



## Boxey

thanks for the info, i'll bring it down to 1.5ish and see if it stays stable


----------



## Broin

I'm using Phenom 965 black,slightly OCd to 3.6 via multiplier.I've read OP in order to figure out why system crashes after pushing multiplier above 18.After checking AMD overdrive it is reporting Vcore at 1.375,while CPU-Z and some other benchmarks report it at 1.31(sometimes even 1.29)
















Now my question is,since ima buy new PSU(obvious culprit







),would 600W be enough(I'm planing to push it to no higher than 4.0)?

Also atm I'm sitting at 54c under full load(prime95 6~ hours stress test) with stock cooling,would it be smart staying on stock or should i upgrade?


----------



## logan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Broin*


I'm using Phenom 965 black,slightly OCd to 3.6 via multiplier.I've read OP in order to figure out why system crashes after pushing multiplier above 18.After checking AMD overdrive it is reporting Vcore at 1.375,while CPU-Z and some other benchmarks report it at 1.31(sometimes even 1.29)
















Now my question is,since ima buy new PSU(obvious culprit







),would 600W be enough(I'm planing to push it to no higher than 4.0)?

Also atm I'm sitting at 54c under full load(prime95 6~ hours stress test) with stock cooling,would it be smart staying on stock or should i upgrade?


Software reporting for the voltages are not always exactly correct for one, and the voltage doesn't always stay the same either (at a hardware level) because it will fluctuate within a few percentage of the set value... this is normal, so I wouldn't worry about it.

A 600w PSU is MORE than enough for a OC'd 965 BE and a 4670. I run a 430W PSU with my 720 BE and a 5770 if that makes you feel any better. I would give my PSU Basics guide a quick read through to get a better idea of what exactly you need to look for from a PSU.

And for cooling, your temps are ok for right now, but if you are trying to reach 4GHz, then you'll likely need to use more voltage which really drives up the temps.

I would go for a new cooler instead of a new PSU to be honest, unless the PSU is actually giving you stability problems (meaning, if the voltage fluctuations are too serious... you want you can check that with a multimeter btw). Good coolers cost around $40-50 and are worth it for the lower temps and noise compared to the stock coolers.

Good luck


----------



## Broin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *logan*


Software reporting for the voltages are not always exactly correct for one, and the voltage doesn't always stay the same either (at a hardware level) because it will fluctuate within a few percentage of the set value... this is normal, so I wouldn't worry about it.

A 600w PSU is MORE than enough for a OC'd 965 BE and a 4670. I run a 430W PSU with my 720 BE and a 5770 if that makes you feel any better. I would give my PSU Basics guide a quick read through to get a better idea of what exactly you need to look for from a PSU.

And for cooling, your temps are ok for right now, but if you are trying to reach 4GHz, then you'll likely need to use more voltage which really drives up the temps.

I would go for a new cooler instead of a new PSU to be honest, unless the PSU is actually giving you stability problems (meaning, if the voltage fluctuations are too serious... you want you can check that with a multimeter btw). Good coolers cost around $40-50 and are worth it for the lower temps and noise compared to the stock coolers.

Good luck


I did read your guide(which helped me a lot),IRC my PSU has barely enough Amps on +12v to sustain OCd Phenom + GPU(although I may be wrong,forgot the values,IRC it was 15-16







),I'll do some more tests tomorrow since PC became unstable after 8 hours of prime95









My main concern is to replace the PSU,i was thinking bout 600W since I'm planning to get more RAM and better GPU(maybe even crossfire lol) in few months.And I can't find anything else wrong that would prevent me from pushing proc up even for 200Mhz,mobo is not really good for OC but it shouldn't stop me that soon either...


----------



## logan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Broin*


I did read your guide(which helped me a lot),IRC my PSU has barely enough Amps on +12v to sustain OCd Phenom + GPU(although I may be wrong,forgot the values,IRC it was 15-16







),I'll do some more tests tomorrow since PC became unstable after 8 hours of prime95









My main concern is to replace the PSU,i was thinking bout 600W since I'm planning to get more RAM and better GPU(maybe even crossfire lol) in few months.And I can't find anything else wrong that would prevent me from pushing proc up even for 200Mhz,mobo is not really good for OC but it shouldn't stop me that soon either...


If you are thinking of going crossfire, then 600w is a great idea and is totally worth the upgrade. For example.

As of right now if you have a 125w 965 BE and a 69w 4670, then you're theoretical amperage draw would be 16amps ((125w + 69w)/12volts = aprox 16 )which is pretty low. However simply changing to something like 5770 crossfire the power draw jumps by 15amps. Running the 965 at 4GHz will make the whole system draw much more power (200-250w) and so in that case the argument for a new PSU makes a whole lot more sense.

The power draw for a rig like that would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 41amps for just the CPU and video cards which is just about perfect for a 600w PSU... good choice.

Glad the guide helped out, thats why I made it.

I also just changed the formatting some in an attempt to make the guide easier to read. Sometime this summer I'll try to update it to include more information about the C3 steppings and Thuban.

Anyway, good luck with the OC, and welcome to OCN


----------



## ahmadmz

Boxey, how did you get the temp for unlocked 555?

I tried to get 4 GHz as dual core on my 555 BE but no luck (1.475V was the highest i tried).
I did this by just increasing the multi to x20. Would it make a difference if i tried 250 with x16 ?


----------



## papiculo

I have successfully unlocked the core on my Phenom X2 55BE. Disabled CnQ and C1E. Prime95 has been running for 10hrs on all cores except what I think is the stock 2nd core (worker #2). Which failed after about 8 1/2 hours. My question is should I be concerned about this? I'm still running at the default voltage the cpu came with.


----------



## Boxey

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ahmadmz*


Boxey, how did you get the temp for unlocked 555?

I tried to get 4 GHz as dual core on my 555 BE but no luck (1.475V was the highest i tried).
I did this by just increasing the multi to x20. Would it make a difference if i tried 250 with x16 ?


Ahmadmz

I does not like the multi much beyond 19, try 18.5 and them push the freq up from 200 to 205 etc etc see where it remains stable. Mine seems to need at least 1.45v. The chip also does not like the freq too high even when at 16 - no idea why, i've just played around with it, always seems more stable at up to 19. I've just tried x19 and 211 - gives me 4 Ghz fine

I have an upgraded cooler in push pull mode and five case fans not got the cpu above 46Â°c when running prime95.

boxey


----------



## Magus2727

I have the 965 Black C2 revision... and I cant get it over 3.8 Ghz ... it seams like most people are on the C3... I hear that the C2 needs a higher voltage bias then the C3 to get over the 3.8 GHz mark... does any one have a C2 OC over 3.8... I really would just like to have full stability at 4.0GHz. I fold 24/7 so the cpu will always be under load.

what do people have for any modified voltages, multiplier, bus speed, and HT speed?

Thanks for any help...


----------



## peteeyang

i was wondering you guyz keep increasing the voltage and for what again .... performance lol i put my comp into power saver mode like silent mode and still get unbelievable respond rate and also my cpu is very cool im in a 80 F room and my cpu only at 38 C air cooled  i still get high benchmark test too clocked at 3.9 ghz voltage at stock didnt even raised a single volt ??? saving power and getting ultra performance this is overclocking babe not performance and then a high electricity bill w t f......


----------



## Magus2727

Care to post all your stats, verification or screen shot and showing some sort of stability test?


----------



## sojourner96

Hello everyone,

I've been building my own machines for about 15 years now but have just recently decided to try overclocking. My last mobo died on me so I bought a replacement CPU/board combo. Please critique my OC so far and let me know what I can do to improve it. Most of the system is about 3 years old so it's not top of the line.

System:
GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM Motherboard
AMD Phenom II x2 550 Callisto CPU
CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W Power Supply
RADEON HD3870 512MB Video Card
CORSAIR XMS 4GB DDR2 800MHZ RAM
Western Digital Raptor 10k RPM HDD

Overclock:
The first thing I did was unlock the 3rd and 4th cores of the Phenom. It was easy enough, took me about 10 minutes to do. the CPU isn't a black edition so I can't adjust the multiplier. I have taken the clock to 240 (3.7Ghz) on stock power and Prime95 blend for about 10 hours. Pushing past that I have to adjust the Vcore. Taking it to 245 (3.8Ghz) and 250 (3.875Ghz) with Vcore at 1.375 and 1.4 respectively, runs stable on Prime95 blend for over an hour. the system didn't crash at this point, I decided to push it further. I haven't ran Prime95 overnight on these settings yet but plan to tonight. My temps are a bit high with the cooler I have so I've ordered a CORSAIR H50. With what I have now on full load I am hitting about 61c.

Questions:
How much further can I safely push the Vcore.
What max temp should I stay under (I want to try to keep it at about 50-55c)
After I hit the max on the CPU what is next? What can I do with RAM, Graphics...


----------



## kchris

TYVM! + Rep


----------



## Freakn

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sojourner96*


Hello everyone,

I've been building my own machines for about 15 years now but have just recently decided to try overclocking. My last mobo died on me so I bought a replacement CPU/board combo. Please critique my OC so far and let me know what I can do to improve it. Most of the system is about 3 years old so it's not top of the line.

System:
GIGABYTE GA-MA785GM Motherboard
AMD Phenom II x2 550 Callisto CPU
CORSAIR CMPSU-650TX 650W Power Supply
RADEON HD3870 512MB Video Card
CORSAIR XMS 4GB DDR2 800MHZ RAM
Western Digital Raptor 10k RPM HDD

Overclock:
The first thing I did was unlock the 3rd and 4th cores of the Phenom. It was easy enough, took me about 10 minutes to do. the CPU isn't a black edition so I can't adjust the multiplier. I have taken the clock to 240 (3.7Ghz) on stock power and Prime95 blend for about 10 hours. Pushing past that I have to adjust the Vcore. Taking it to 245 (3.8Ghz) and 250 (3.875Ghz) with Vcore at 1.375 and 1.4 respectively, runs stable on Prime95 blend for over an hour. the system didn't crash at this point, I decided to push it further. I haven't ran Prime95 overnight on these settings yet but plan to tonight. My temps are a bit high with the cooler I have so I've ordered a CORSAIR H50. With what I have now on full load I am hitting about 61c.

Questions:
How much further can I safely push the Vcore.
What max temp should I stay under (I want to try to keep it at about 50-55c)
After I hit the max on the CPU what is next? What can I do with RAM, Graphics...


Alot of people say 1.45 volts is the max you should run, i've had mine @ 1.5 for about 9 months almost and never missed a beat, even pushed 1.65 through it at times when beanchmarking.

With the volt vurus clock speed there is no reason you cant get 4-4.1 stable with 1.5 volts. The main thing is keep the chip cool, and with a H50 you'll be able to keep it below 50 in theory. Even with 1.6 volts I keep my sig rig below 45 deg 95 percent of the time.

You mention ocing your ram, unless you've reduced the multiplier for your ram you already have it over clocked to about 960mhz, your ram is effected when you change the clock.

If what you've done so far is with the stock cooler you'll be able to hit 4.1 with ease once you have a better cooling system.

Good luck


----------



## Maximous

So I guess im at the top of what my rig can do at the moment. What do U folks think? Improvments on something?


----------



## elzhi

......


----------



## Maximous

Hey. Yes for a beginner its ok to just up the multiplier. Remember to test for stability and please check ur temps. @ some point Ull have to up the cpu voltage.

Let us know


----------



## WaXyDeAd

Wow, just skimmed threw the guide, very well done, and easy to follow and understand. 
+1


----------



## logan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Maximous*


So I guess im at the top of what my rig can do at the moment. What do U folks think? Improvments on something?


Your OC looks great Maximous, I like the high NB clocks. Everything looks great as long as the temps are good.

Also thanks for helping out in here while I'm busy this summer







.


----------



## Maximous

Thnx mate







. Np, Ill check in here everyday, since im always here anyways









Happy holiday


----------



## sanghai2

First off, great guide, just got a few questions, since I am a total newb to overclocking

I have a 955 (should be C3) and I would like to bump it up from 3.2 to 3.5/3.6, just a mild overclock. I hear that the BIOS is better than amd overdrive when overclocking and keeping it stable, but there's I am getting conflicting results. If I increase the multiplier from 16 to 18 in BIOS, the core voltage increases from the stock 1.380V to 1.452. But if I increase the multiplier in amd overdrive, the voltage does not change at all.

Is this normal? Or are there some other settings that I may need to change for a desired overclock and stability? When I am in BIOS, I touch nothing else other than the multiplier (which is named CPU ratio), so is this recommended?

Thanks


----------



## logan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sanghai2*


First off, great guide, just got a few questions, since I am a total newb to overclocking

I have a 955 (should be C3) and I would like to bump it up from 3.2 to 3.5/3.6, just a mild overclock. I hear that the BIOS is better than amd overdrive when overclocking and keeping it stable, but there's I am getting conflicting results. If I increase the multiplier from 16 to 18 in BIOS, the core voltage increases from the stock 1.380V to 1.452. But if I increase the multiplier in amd overdrive, the voltage does not change at all.

Is this normal? Or are there some other settings that I may need to change for a desired overclock and stability? When I am in BIOS, I touch nothing else other than the multiplier (which is named CPU ratio), so is this recommended?

Thanks


First off, welcome to the forum. This place is great.

As for your problem, I would first ask if you have left your vcore set at auto. I have seen boards set the vcore incorrectly on auto many times, and I'm pretty sure that is what is happening to you right now. Just go ahead and set it manually and see how that works.

Good luck







.


----------



## sanghai2

Yes that seemed to the problem, it was on offset. I adjusted it to manual, but I have another issue, again with the voltage. When manually setting the vcore, I get a different voltage than the one which I input. For example, if I plug in 1.400 and reboot, BIOS sets it as 1.368. But if I increase it by just ONE notch in the BIOS, it jumps out to 1.416. So what gives?


----------



## Magus2727

have you disabled AMD Cool'n Quiet?


----------



## sanghai2

Yes I have

EDIT:
Just to clarify what I mean, see the below picture (not my own picture). Firstly I changed "CPU & NB Voltage Mode" from offset to manual. If I adjust "CPU Offset Voltage" to 1.400 and reboot, the gray number will be 1.368, while the blue one will be 1.400.

http://www.overclockersclub.com/vima...o_usb3/b26.jpg


----------



## logan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *sanghai2*


Yes that seemed to the problem, it was on offset. I adjusted it to manual, but I have another issue, again with the voltage. When manually setting the vcore, I get a different voltage than the one which I input. For example, if I plug in 1.400 and reboot, BIOS sets it as 1.368. But if I increase it by just ONE notch in the BIOS, it jumps out to 1.416. So what gives?


Well, I'm glad that we got the first part figured out







.

What size are your vcore adjustments in your BIOS? Since I'm unfamiliar with your BIOS I don't know exactly what and where all of the settings are that you need in the BIOS.

Is there anywhere where you can change just the cpu vcore, rather than the offset? The offset is *usually* the difference from the normal vcore that it will add or subtract (if vcore is 1.35v and you use an offset of .05, your vcore is 1.4v).

I'm not sure why your vcore sets itself at the wrong voltage until you hit 1.416v, but it you might get some good info on that from your motherboards manual.

In the meantime, I would just use 1.416v since that isn't very high and see if you can't get that 3.6ish OC that you've been wanting.

Good luck


----------



## sanghai2

Well the setting is on manual already, not offset, so that isn't the problem. The mobo's manual doesn't help much as well, all it says is that it can range from 0-2V with 0.003V (or something) increments. Anyway, I just wanted to see what the problem was, the overclock seems quite stable at 3.6ghz on 1.42V, just wanted to see if I could get it any lower to reduce power/temps. Thanks!


----------



## abeeftec

Got a quick question,
I am stability testing while clocking my Amd Cpu for the first time and I am at 3.6ghz fairly easy. I have my voltage set at 1.4v.

I am only using 3dmark06 at this point.

The issue is that in the middle of the firefly (Second graphics test) the screen got pretty ******o colored and then the program stopped running and a message that it stopped running followed. But no bsod and no shut down or lock up. It just went back to the desktop. I do have my PCIe frequency set at 105 but I do that because it helps get into the OS on Intel boards. I set the PCIe freq to 110 sometimes on Intel boards. I used to set my older AMD boards PCIe Freq to 105 so I figured that wouldnt be a problem. 
Question is... Has anyone ever experienced this before or is this yet another thing unique to me?

Thanks for your help and this guide! saved me hours of learning!!

Edit- I am running a diamond 5770 and its a GT open air card. I have never had any issues with diamond but have with other 5770s. The same ones complained about by other 5770 owners So I know those issues and its not related to those. This 5770 is new. IN fact the whole PC is new and SO AM I To overclocking AMD systems!


----------



## Magus2727

What is your memory and what voltages??? most AMD boards dont default to the higher voltage for DDR3.... my board gives me a red warning when I am running my memory at the specified voltage from the manufacture. thats not even upping it to try and OC it...

most DDR3 is around 1.6V or 1.65V (depending on speed and timings) and I think most AMD boards default to 1.5V....

What OS are you running? is it compatible? I know W7 does not like the quick changes from bit color and sizes (for me at least)....


----------



## abeeftec

My memory is Mushkin Blackline 1600Mhz 1.65v
Its currently at approx 1400


----------



## abeeftec

Also I would like to at least let you know my Bios settings.

1. I am not sure if I should have my DCT Unganged mode on Always or Auto for more stability. I have ram in slot 1 and 3. 4gb Mushkin as stated above.
it is currently on Always

Operating system is Windows 7 Ultimate 64

C&Q on disabled

C1e Disabled

Ai Manual

CPU bus Frequency 260
PCIe Freq 107

CPU raitio x14

CPU/NB Freq 2080mzh

CPU voltage 1.425v

CPU/NB Voltage 1.300v

CPU VDDA Volts Auto

HT LINK 2080

HT Link Width Auto

HT voltage 1.24

Dram Frequency 1387Mhz

Dram Voltage 1.60v

NB voltage 1.10

NB 1.8 Auto

SB voltage Auto

PCIE spread spectrum Disabled

Ram timings on auto with reading of Cas 8 in CPUz

I can get into windows with good temps. HW Monitor says 27c On almost all cores.

CPUz reads my voltage at 1.125v So it makes no sense to me because 
HW reads it as 1.44v

So which is right and what gives with this? Which program to use? Bios says Temp is 33 or 34

Thanks

Update....

Bus Frequency 265

HT link 2120

Ram is around 1400 but Im not in the bios now to read it and 06 marks is running and on the fireflies test it is doing the crazy color thing again. I dont know if this is the card doing this or is it the overclock!!! I have owned many of these Diamond versions of the 5770s and never had one do this before. I am thinking about putting my GTX480 in and seeing if it will stop. 
Here we go.... Will update.

UHG I have a million questions!!
What is the best suited Southbridge voltage? 1.20 or 1.35? you only get two choices in this board
M4A79XTD EVO


----------



## Magus2727

my thought right now is get a test to test your cpu and get one to test your GPU... run Furmark or similar for the GPU and then IBT for the CPU and memory.


----------



## abeeftec

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Magus2727*


my thought right now is get a test to test your cpu and get one to test your GPU... run Furmark or similar for the GPU and then IBT for the CPU and memory.


I am running 3dmark06 to see if there is any stability and I am failing. 
I actually tried to just pass the issue by settings 
1.5v Vcore

2430 CPUNB freq and HT link

1.3 CPUNB Voltage(wondering what would be considered dangerous)

HT Volts 1.26

DRAM 1440

1.65V Dram

1.2 NB voltage

And it gets into windows and I get an error making me think theres an issue with my card. I got this card for 35 bucks!!!! 5770 GT version open air at Microcenter. I asked if i could purchase the one in the case and it was the last one so they said yes at 10 percent off. Then when walking up to the counter I reminded him that all BYO merchandise was currently 75 percent off the Discounted price. Needless to say he didnt like that too much but I did get it for 35 bucks. Its original price was 179.00

So I think im going to throw my gtx480 in it and see if that does any better.

I want to learn to overclock the AMD CPU is why I built this PC. I built the entire PC for under 350.00
And every peice is new. How that happened is beyond me. I kept running into deals and eventually I had a whole PC.

I would actually like someone, If possible to let me know the limits at what I can set these settings and with that I will work the whole thing out. 
thanks


----------



## Magus2727

the reason for suggesting IBT is so you can test just the CPU/Memory and take the video card out of the picture....

Fill out this... http://www.overclock.net/specs.php it will help


----------



## OldGeek

sanghai2... I am running a pretty plain system and have a 3.6 OC. I can see the catch that you have an ASUS board and I have a Gigabyte. But in CPU-Z: Core Speed 3600 MHz; Multiplier x18.0, Bus Speed 200 MHz; HT Link 2000.0 MHz; Core Voltage is 1.328; NB Frequency 2000. Granted you have a different board, just trying to show I did nothing special, in fact only increased the multiplier. Left the rest as vanilla. PCIe at 100. If it makes a difference I do have the older RB-C2 Revision. Also running my memory DC Mode Unganged and a DRAM Frequency of 800 MHz for a FSB to DRAM ration of 1:4. The memory is set to 9-9-9-24-40-2T so nothing special there. Oh and AOD sucks real bad. Much better off mucking in the BIOS. Good luck!


----------



## GeorgieFruit

Great guide, but I believe you have a typo

Quote:


Originally Posted by *logan* 

North Bridge, Hypertransport and IMC:

So now you have likely overcome your first instability, and are just cruising right along. The next issue you are likely to have when doing this, is either the NB (NorthBridge) or HT (HyperTransport). The NB effects the speed that the ram communicates with the CPU, while the HT deals with how fast the CPU communicates with the rest of the components on the motherboard (it essential replaced the FSB for those of you intel (or pre socket 754 AMD) owners out there). The NB and HT are related, and in fact, you can't set the NB speed any higher than the HT speed.

You have it correctly two posts below in your quote:

Quote:

The HT Link has to be equal or lower than the NB frequency at all times due to the design.


----------



## piranhamoose

I am a complete noob to all this, but i am trying very hard to grasp the concept of overclocking. I've managed to OC my Phenom II X4 945 95watts c2 from 3.0ghz to 3.6ghz using several guides including yours.

It's managed to pass 1 hour AMD Overdrive stress test, but only 30 min Prime 95 and i get the dreaded blue screen. I've read that blue screen usually indicates ram instability, so i upped the voltage slightly to no avail.









ram voltage: 1.95
cpu voltage: 1.4375

(My system info in my profile)

any advice on how to further stabilize would be very much appreciated. I would also like to thank everyone for sharing their knowledge in this forum. I would not have gotten this far without it


----------



## AMOCO

Quote:


Originally Posted by *piranhamoose* 
I am a complete noob to all this, but i am trying very hard to grasp the concept of overclocking. I've managed to OC my Phenom II X4 945 95watts c2 from 3.0ghz to 3.6ghz using several guides including yours.

It's managed to pass 1 hour AMD Overdrive stress test, but only 30 min Prime 95 and i get the dreaded blue screen. I've read that blue screen usually indicates ram instability, so i upped the voltage slightly to no avail.









ram voltage: 1.95
cpu voltage: 1.4375

(My system info in my profile)

any advice on how to further stabilize would be very much appreciated. I would also like to thank everyone for sharing their knowledge in this forum. I would not have gotten this far without it











the more you overclock the better you get at it.


----------



## piranhamoose

Advice? anyone? on my above post?


----------



## piranhamoose

So here's my settings so far. Stable 2 hours Prime95 blend test.

*CPU*: _945 Phenom II X4 Deneb 95 watts_
*STEPPING*: _C2_
*FREQUENCY*: _3600 MHZ_
*REF*MULTI*: _240*15_
*CPU VOLTAGE*: _1.46250_
*CPU-NB*: _2160 (9x multiplier)_
*CPU-NB VOLTAGE*: _1.25_
*SB CHIPSET VOLTAGE*: _1.22_
*HT LINK FREQUENCY*: _1800 MHZ_
*HT LINK VOLTAGE*: _1.215_
*RAM*: _OCZ Reapers 4GB DDR2 PC-6400 downclocked to 333mhz /
5-5-5-15-24 @ 800mhz_
*RAM VOLTAGE*: _1.905_
*TEMPERATURE*: _32C IDLE (with cool and quiet disabled) - 54C (100% load 2 hours Prime95)_
*MOTHERBOARD*: _ASUS M4A785-M_
*COOLING*: _Zalman 9500A 92mm_
*OS*: _Windows 7 Professional x86_



Peace.........


----------



## esocid

Quote:



Originally Posted by *piranhamoose*


So here's my settings so far. Stable 2 hours Prime95 blend test.

*CPU*: _945 Phenom II X4 Deneb 95 watts_
*STEPPING*: _C2_
*FREQUENCY*: _3600 MHZ_
*REF*MULTI*: _240*15_
*CPU VOLTAGE*: _1.46250_
*CPU-NB*: _2160 (9x multiplier)_
*CPU-NB VOLTAGE*: _1.25_
*SB CHIPSET VOLTAGE*: _1.22_
*HT LINK FREQUENCY*: _1800 MHZ_
*HT LINK VOLTAGE*: _1.215_
*RAM*: _OCZ Reapers 4GB DDR2 PC-6400 downclocked to 333mhz /
5-5-5-15-24 @ 800mhz_
*RAM VOLTAGE*: _1.905_
*TEMPERATURE*: _32C IDLE (with cool and quiet disabled) - 54C (100% load 2 hours Prime95)_
*MOTHERBOARD*: _ASUS M4A785-M_
*COOLING*: _Zalman 9500A 92mm_
*OS*: _Windows 7 Professional x86_



Peace.........


Are you locking your RAM? Try setting the speed at auto until you find a stable OC, and then you can fiddle with your divider if you want to lock you RAM. I have mine set to auto, otherwise it won't post.

If it doesn't stay stable, try upping vcore again. Either that or your RAM voltage, and finally try your NB at 1.3 (not CPU-NB).


----------



## piranhamoose

Quote:



Originally Posted by *esocid*


Are you locking your RAM? Try setting the speed at auto until you find a stable OC, and then you can fiddle with your divider if you want to lock you RAM. I have mine set to auto, otherwise it won't post.

If it doesn't stay stable, try upping vcore again. Either that or your RAM voltage, and finally try your NB at 1.3 (not CPU-NB).



Locking my RAM? What does that mean? But, everything's stable so far with these settings. It's just that i stopped Prime95 blend test after 2 hours thinking that would be enough. You're saying >2 hours of testing to determine stability? RAM stock timing for 333mhz is 4-5-5-12-20, since FSB overclock runs my RAM at 400mhz, i figured i'd set the stock timing for that frequency and up the voltage. I also ran Memtest for 2 hours at the above settings before oc'ing and passed. So far so good.

Ill run Prime95 all night tonight at these settings to really determine stability. Is that your advice?

Peace......


----------



## esocid

Quote:


Originally Posted by *piranhamoose* 
Locking my RAM? What does that mean? But, everything's stable so far with these settings. It's just that i stopped Prime95 blend test after 2 hours thinking that would be enough. You're saying >2 hours of testing to determine stability? RAM stock timing for 333mhz is 4-5-5-12-20, since FSB overclock runs my RAM at 400mhz, i figured i'd set the stock timing for that frequency and up the voltage. I also ran Memtest for 2 hours at the above settings before oc'ing and passed. So far so good.

Ill run Prime95 all night tonight at these settings to really determine stability. Is that your advice?

Peace......

If it's stable so far, it's probably good. By locking, I meant setting the speed of your RAM, rather than setting it to auto. 2 hours is a good sign, so if it runs fine through the night I'd call it a stable OC.


----------



## N2Gaming

+1 for your efforts. Great job breaking it all down.


----------



## schawks73

What would you guess I would be able to safely OC my phII 955 to based on my sig's info? I am hoping to hit 4.0 if possible, but I dont wanna risk it by going an extra .1 or .2.

I have never done anything like this before (and I acutally just ordered my stuff today and havent even received/built it) but I would really like to give it a shot, and my buddy is going to help me build the computer and he is really computer savvy so with his help I should be able to get this OC thing down...


----------



## ikem

its kinda wierd... but i have the old Phenom II x4 920 (2.8ghz)... and i have hit the 3.7 ghz max for the cpu. Since it is a non BE has AMD limited it to that? because i just cannot get it any farther...


----------



## Jync

My advice:

Go sell that 5770 used on ebay and get around 100 bucks or more out of it.

Put your GTX 480 in your rig, and leave your CPU @ Stock Speeds.

Once you are done with that, play any game you can find and notice that there is no need for overclocking your rig.


----------



## logan

Quote:



Originally Posted by *N2Gaming*


+1 for your efforts. Great job breaking it all down.










Agreed, thanks for doing this when I'm not around (which atm is pretty much all the time as you can tell, school is absolutely insane). + rep man.









@ikem:

If you're running a PhII 920, then 3.7GHz is a pretty great OC. AMD does not limit the chips by imposing a hard limit, it is generally limited by how good of a piece of silicon your chip contains. At some point, reguardless of whether or not the chip was a BE or not, the chip will just reach its max OC with your current configuration.

Also, there are architectural limits for speeds as well, and for a first gen PhII, that is a nice OC (most were in the 3.6 - 3.8GHz range).

Hopefully that helps you out some.

@schawks73:
Like what I just said, most PhII's will achieve in the 3.8GHz range (+- 200MHz or so for the quads). I would wait to see what your chip is like, but 4GHz is possible. Just make sure that you walk through this (and/or other guides) and stay within safe temps and voltages and you should be good to go.

Cheers!


----------



## schawks73

Quote:



Originally Posted by *logan*


@schawks73:
Like what I just said, most PhII's will achieve in the 3.8GHz range (+- 200MHz or so for the quads). I would wait to see what your chip is like, but 4GHz is possible. Just make sure that you walk through this (and/or other guides) and stay within safe temps and voltages and you should be good to go.

Cheers!


Thanks for the input, I will definitely study this guide and do more research as the computer is in route.

Thanks again!


----------



## Amdoverclocker2

anyone know to overclock to 4.1 ghz i seen some get to 4.8 ghz or 5 ghz on 965 X4 phemon II


----------



## GanjaSMK

You would need LN2 probably to do 4.5+


----------



## argya

hey guys, when do you get "stable" load temps? cause mine is still raising and raising after 1 hour of OCCT...

does your temp stop increasing after some amount of OCCt, or is it normal to raise up constantly even after 1-2 hours?

every time I OC, I open my case so the temp wont be too hot (since I believe you wont get 65C on normal usage, just wanna detect error on CPU)

If this is abnormal could you suggest me what to do so that the temp stop raising after certain amount?


----------



## Magus2727

Well max temp is 62*C... so I would say any thing over 55 is "to hot" my machine stabalizes at about 52 after about 15 min of running Intel burn test. If your cooler is good and air flow is good it should stabalize fairly quickly.

My guess is you need a better cooler or better air flow.


----------



## argya

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Magus2727* 
Well max temp is 62*C... so I would say any thing over 55 is "to hot" my machine stabalizes at about 52 after about 15 min of running Intel burn test. If your cooler is good and air flow is good it should stabalize fairly quickly.

My guess is you need a better cooler or better air flow.

hmm what do you think Ven X Black or Megahalems? which one suits best for 2Krpm fans like mine? as for airflow, have done all i can, hide all the cables and etc etc but the temp still raising


----------



## logan

Quote:


Originally Posted by *argya* 
hmm what do you think Ven X Black or Megahalems? which one suits best for 2Krpm fans like mine? as for airflow, have done all i can, hide all the cables and etc etc but the temp still raising

When you take the side panel off, do your temps change by much? If they do, then it is likely the case cooling that is your problem. Also, your heatsink is pretty decent, so I wouldn't try replacing it until we've figured out a few other things.

How are your case fans configured? How many fans do you have in the case right now? Also, are you sure that it is seated correctly? You might try reseating the heatsink with something good like MX-2 or AS5 and see if that helps with the temps.

Good luck


----------



## argya

Quote:


Originally Posted by *logan* 
When you take the side panel off, do your temps change by much? If they do, then it is likely the case cooling that is your problem. Also, your heatsink is pretty decent, so I wouldn't try replacing it until we've figured out a few other things.

How are your case fans configured? How many fans do you have in the case right now? Also, are you sure that it is seated correctly? You might try reseating the heatsink with something good like MX-2 or AS5 and see if that helps with the temps.

Good luck


























2 14 cm fan in the front as intake, 2 14 cm up there as exhaust, one 12 cm fan back as exhaust...

i didn't open the case, just the front and upper panel....

when fully closed, 64 and then beep bluescreen..
when upper and front panel opened, 56 as the max, and could pass 4.0 GHZ for 6hours

edit: I used Tuniq TX4 as thermal paste


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## WarpSx

Good day guys. I've been wondering why most of your temperature readings are exactly the opposite of mine. Look here, my CPU Temp is way bigger than the CPU Core Temps.
I'm running on a Phenom II 945 C2 at stock value of 3.00Ghz cooled by a Zerotherm FZ120.
What do you think i should do?


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## rebby2

Thx for the post. Cleared many of the questions i were having=) Now lets try it! Just waiting for my Cooler Master V8.


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## d.belanger7

Why choose to increase ur ref clock rather than the multiplier in a system?

I have a Crosshair IV/965BE/H70 and XM3 DDR3-1600 CL 8-8-8-24

and im wondering which is the best way to OC my system. It seems that everyone is saying different things.

I.E
-up the multiplier and up the voltage till u hit a wall (seems the easiest..)
-or up ref. clock and voltage and also OC the CPU-NB

It seems that if I up multiplier I dont have to worry about my memory problems but that seems the easy way out. I simply want the BEST way to OC my computer.

What are the benefits of increasing the ref. clock than the multiplier?


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## jaminroe

Thank you so much!! Great guides!


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## jaminroe

How far do you think is a safe speed for my CPU? I've heard that this CPU is great for overclocking? I've got it at 3.2 GHz right now, and idle is around 39C. Under load using Prime95 Blend test, around 60C with my current cooling.


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## Magus2727

62C is the max temp... so I would say you need better cooling before you try to over clock. and or better case air flow.


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## jaminroe

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Magus2727*


62C is the max temp... so I would say you need better cooling before you try to over clock. and or better case air flow.


My case air flow is great. The haf 922 is awesome with that. My legs get chilly sometimes sitting next to it.







It's most likely my cpu cooler. How did you get 62C? Thanks for the advice.


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## Magus2727

http://products.amd.com/en-us/Deskto...il.aspx?id=534

All Phenom II's have the same temp limit.


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## chacobo

Sir, your effort and generosity definitely deserve me opening an account to say thank you. Great Great guide.


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## Superintendent

3.5 Quad unlocked phenom ii x4 B50 at 1.365 but regardless of another voltage bump I can't get it to 3.6 stable. Must fiddle.


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## Magus2727

What are your temps? Temps are the largest cause for a system to become unstable...


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## BlueBeast

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Superintendent*


3.5 Quad unlocked phenom ii x4 B50 at 1.365 but regardless of another voltage bump I can't get it to 3.6 stable. Must fiddle.


Have you tried it with the core relocked? From my understanding, sometimes they lock the core because it is unstable. Also, did you lower the ram speed?


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## Magus2727

Quote:



Originally Posted by *BlueBeast*


Have you tried it with the core relocked? From my understanding, sometimes they lock the core because it is unstable. Also, did you lower the ram speed?


That is the reason behind locking it. They test the chip for a variety of things those that have problems with a whole core get that core locked. For those that have sock problems they lower the clock speed.

Thats why you have 3 core CPU's and a variety of clocks of 3 core and 4 core. They don't do a whole redesign or transistor layout/size for the lower clocks. they do 1-2 designs and depending on how much time after the chip has been assembled determines both the price and the clock they set.


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## detta

although a bit late thank you for the post it will help for sure.


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## AccellGarage

Nice Share and I try learn overclock AMD Pii X4


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## eddiechi

Curious ......When benchmarking and monitoring stability tests I use dual monitors with my gtx580... I use the second monitor to watch the utilities I use for temps and load activity etc..... while the main monitor is running the benchmark tests or stability tests... Does using a second monitor significantly reduce my scores when benchmarking and running stability tests?


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## Reshkar

When I overclock my 1090BE only on multiplier, should I disable my LLC? Then enable it when I find a stable clock? Or just leave it on..


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## vrillon

so for a 2.8 ghz to a 3.4ghz OC would I change the voltage to 1.4?

Its setting at 1.3v now on the vcore and its been like that like it was on 2.8ghz.

sometimes dipping to 1.28v


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## KraziKarl

If you're unstable at the stock voltage using prime95 or some other stress-testing software, up the voltage slowly and re-test to achieve stability. If you encounter no errors running prime95 for an hour or two, no don't raise the voltage.


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## chrisys93

How far can a Phenom 955 c3 cpu overclock without changing stock voltages? (stock is 1.4v)

Mine is currently at 3.7 ghz, i want to try and go atleast 4ghz.


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## xxpenguinxx

It depends on your processor. You may get a "Good" chip and have it reach 4Ghz on that stock voltage, or 3.7Ghz could be the highest you can go without increasing the voltage. Just keep slowly increasing the frequency until the CPU is no longer stable, then back it down a bit until it's stable again.


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## pshootr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vrillon;15202271*
> so for a 2.8 ghz to a 3.4ghz OC would I change the voltage to 1.4?
> 
> Its setting at 1.3v now on the vcore and its been like that like it was on 2.8ghz.
> 
> sometimes dipping to 1.28v


Depending on your particular chip, voltage requrements will vary from others. Having said that , "my sweet spot" seems to be at 3.510 with 1.420v max under load. It is important to evaluate cpu temp with each vcore increase. Make sure you do not go above your chips rated _load_ temp.

Also be careful, because some boards have "load-line-calibration" which will adjust your voltage accordingly. Monitor as to make sure your MB is not overvolting too far.


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## Digital Concept

I wanna give you more rep for this great guide but I wasn't sure if you want'd to lose your 666 rep!


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## rey63004

Thanks for sharing this guide!


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## throbber

hi guys nice topic.
at the moment my x2 555be is running at 3.73ghz (solid)
200x18.5 @ 1.55 cpu-vcore.
to get over x18 i had to up the cpu-vcore to 1.55
and increase the cpu-nb-vc to 2416.3ghz / 1.325vc.
can i have some suggestions on what i can do to get a faster clock??...
oviosly im not wanting to go over 1.55 cpu-vc


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## remnant

ok so order of operations is
Increase CPU
when we reach a stability problem we mess with the ram,
increase the cpu
hit another stability problem.
adjust the NB,
increase the cpu
hit another stability problem
mess with the CPU voltage
run program for 6-12 hours.
done?


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## Hazzeedayz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *remnant*
> 
> ok so order of operations is
> Increase CPU
> when we reach a stability problem we mess with the ram,
> increase the cpu
> hit another stability problem.
> adjust the NB,
> increase the cpu
> hit another stability problem
> mess with the CPU voltage
> run program for 6-12 hours.
> done?


edited:
Increase CPU
mess with the CPU voltage
rinse repeat until maximum stability is found
set to stock

find a good RAM clock while CPU is at stock
adjust RAM voltage for best stability.
reset to stock

adjust the NB,
adjust voltage for stability
once maximum stability is found, reset to stock

NOWWWW
the *"trick"* is,
after seeing how everything is acting....
increase the CPU clock to HALF of what you achieved (ex. you went from 3.4 to 4.0...set to 3.7)
adjust voltage, check stability
tighten the timings
if there is stability issues now....
adjust the NB and slightly increase voltages on RAM and NB

once you find something stable at your "half maximum CPU increase"
then you can start increasing in SMALL increments and then rinse and repeat the *"trick"*

run program for 6-12 hours.
done? (your never done







)

make sure to watch your temps....even though you may be able to achieve faster speeds....your temps are a big factor

last piece of advice: Water cool if you're going 24/7 use

let me know if you have anymore questions
[/quote]


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## remnant

ok so I ran prim95 and I get an error on one core but the other 3 seem to keep it up (then again only allowed it to go for 1:15) I'm at 3759.98Mhz Vid 1.35 and temps never got above 47 C
whats my next step?


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## bringonblink

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *remnant*
> 
> ok so I ran prim95 and I get an error on one core but the other 3 seem to keep it up (then again only allowed it to go for 1:15) I'm at 3759.98Mhz Vid 1.35 and temps never got above 47 C
> whats my next step?


bump up the voltage till that core is stable


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## remnant

drats, apparently My mobo isn't supposed to go above 1.35 volts because everytime I try the computer wont start and it tells me to lower the voltage down, maybe a failsafe for the motherboard?


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## remnant

question again








why does lowering the ram speed increase stabilty but not slow down the overall computer speed?


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## ngcarson

Bookmarked! This is awesome. Thanks mate!


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## levontraut

nice write up dude


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## chadrew

What NB frequency should I aim for with a Phenom II X4 955 (Deneb)?

In regards to RAM, maybe someone will find this useful: I've tested CPU/NB at 2600 with RAM at 1600 9-9-9-24 timings, vs RAM at 1333 7-7-7-20 timings. In AIDA64 memory test the higher frequency setting showed better results. Many people say tighter timings are more important than high frequency for AMD systems, but that doesn't seem to be the case (with this benchmark at least).


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## Grmadness

+REP. Nice guide,and the links really helped me a great deal.


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## Grmadness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chadrew*
> 
> What NB frequency should I aim for with a Phenom II X4 955 (Deneb)?
> 
> In regards to RAM, maybe someone will find this useful: I've tested CPU/NB at 2600 with RAM at 1600 9-9-9-24 timings, vs RAM at 1333 7-7-7-20 timings. In AIDA64 memory test the higher frequency setting showed better results. Many people say tighter timings are more important than high frequency for AMD systems, but that doesn't seem to be the case (with this benchmark at least).


2600-3000 Mhz is your aim. My 965 BE is no different compared to 955, so i think the same rules apply for both CPU's.
As for the RAM results, higher freq gives more bandwidth(good for benchmarking purposes),while tighter timings mean less latency. It's all about efficiency,not speed,when it comes to timings. Really helps while playing games etc. So,it really comes down to what you need to do. Although the thread is old,I hope this answer helps.

http://www.overclock.net/t/555061/guide-am3-cpus-which-ram-speed-is-faster-and-which-cpu-nb-clock-is-best


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## ElkyJnr

ive read this over and over and all the liks and somehow it doesnt make alot of sense to me. maybe becasue its alot of information to take in.
is ther e asimple way to find out how to overclock my system?


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## Roy360

sorry for being lazy, but does anyone know if overclocking memory will have any effect on performance?

According to newegg, my motherboard : http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813135085 operates at 1066Mhz.

Right now, I am running at 800Mhz. I've been using DDR3 for most of my "overclocking life", so I"m not too sure what the safe voltages or how to pick latancies.

I am using the integrated graphics on the PC, so I was wondering if an improved ram speed will help the machine.

I'm also worried about killing my motherboard, but I think I should be okay since the spec sheet mentions 1066, without OC in brackets.


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## deararis

Hi

I would want to "try"to overclock my X4 955 BE which I should've done 2 years ago. Anyway, I have bought a Hyper 212X cooler. Should I overclock? Because I have a 970A-D3 mobo w/o VRM heatsink. Overclocked to 3.4Ghz and my max temperatures are:

Max TMPIN2 (MOSFET): 67C degrees
Max CPU temp: 55C degrees

I heard that this mobo is not for overclocking but I have a CPU that has a potential to be overclocked at high Ghz. Should I continue overclocking? And at what temp is safe for me (TMPIN2 &CPU)?

Note: I have no budget left after I bought a new R9 270 gpu.


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## southernyankey1970

So, what is stopping you from trying? You have absolutely nothing to lose. Follow the guides at the beginning of this thread and you will be fine. Start with the multi first and see how high it gets before it becomes unstable and go from there. Your cooler will get you to 4 ghz with no problems. I highly suggest that you either get some aftermarket heatsinks and a fan for the vrm's before you get too greedy with the oc. Enzotech makes cool little heat sinks and they are fairly inexpensive. At the very least you need a small fan on the vrm's since your 212 blows air out the back and not down on the vrm's like the stock cooler did.

http://www.enzotechnology.com/air_cooling.htm

Have fun and post your results and I'm sure that you will get all kinds of help here achieving your goal.


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## djleakyg

I hope this thread is still active. I have a few questions about some parts I am going to buy and I would like to know what type of clocks I can expect out of these. I am not a fanboy for either brand of CPU's but it seems like I have had bought AMD way more often than Intel so make of that what you will. I Currently have a Vishera 8320 in my main rig and I have been absouletly pleased with that chip. Very capable and robust. A friend of mine is trying to offload some older hardware and I said I was interested & made an offer. From what I can tell, he has a PIIX6 1100T, PIIX4 840(not sure if it is a Propus or Zosma), somewhere between 8GB and 16 GB of DDR3 1333 or 1600(Fairly sure its Kingston), two MSI 880 G E45's, a couple decent coolers (Seidon 120M and some Prolimatech cooler), decent PSU's good brands with warranty still (one PC Power & Cooling, the other is I want to Antec), some decent cases I think they are circa 2009 Antec Mid towers (nothing crazy, just easy chassis ), and a few other small things. He wants $150 for all of this stuff and I think that is a good deal. What do you guys think? My plans are to OC pretty heavily with one and make a server out of the other.


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## Aleslammer

@djleakyg

1100T buy it now on Ebay is over $150, the boards only found one listing at $50 I'd jump on it.


----------



## djleakyg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aleslammer*
> 
> @djleakyg
> 
> 1100T buy it now on Ebay is over $150, the boards only found one listing at $50 I'd jump on it.


Awesome! I will pick these up then. In my local CL, I only found one listing and the guy wanted a crazy amount for his rig, like 1500!


----------



## The Sandman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djleakyg*
> 
> I hope this thread is still active. I have a few questions about some parts I am going to buy and I would like to know what type of clocks I can expect out of these. I am not a fanboy for either brand of CPU's but it seems like I have had bought AMD way more often than Intel so make of that what you will. I Currently have a Vishera 8320 in my main rig and I have been absouletly pleased with that chip. Very capable and robust. A friend of mine is trying to offload some older hardware and I said I was interested & made an offer. From what I can tell, he has a PIIX6 1100T, PIIX4 840(not sure if it is a Propus or Zosma), somewhere between 8GB and 16 GB of DDR3 1333 or 1600(Fairly sure its Kingston), two MSI 880 G E45's, a couple decent coolers (Seidon 120M and some Prolimatech cooler), decent PSU's good brands with warranty still (one PC Power & Cooling, the other is I want to Antec), some decent cases I think they are circa 2009 Antec Mid towers (nothing crazy, just easy chassis ), and a few other small things. He wants $150 for all of this stuff and I think that is a good deal. What do you guys think? My plans are to OC pretty heavily with one and make a server out of the other.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djleakyg*
> 
> Awesome! I will pick these up then. In my local CL, I only found one listing and the guy wanted a crazy amount for his rig, like 1500!


Have fun with those








In my sig if you click on the CHIV-F Club link you'll find a couple spread sheets that may help to give you an idea of what to expect and what others ran.

Remember to crank that CPU/NB freq









Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






Ran this for over a year and a half. Currently idling in my server


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## djleakyg

Here are some pics of the 1100T rig. Running at a very stable and clean 3.85 GHz. Temps are ranging from 18-20 idle and not sure what my load temps will be. I am going to run a few benchmarks and research what the best know config is for my CPU as far as voltage, core speed, and multiplier are.


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## core unlocker

+rep for this guide. Really appreciate your efforts on this.


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