# My review of the Swiftech MCP50X pump



## Dyson Poindexter

Awesome post!


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## VSG

Thanks









If anyone spots an error above, please do let me know. I am no expert by any means!


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## Ramzinho

this is a very very professional review... awesome post. ,







+REP


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## VSG

I don't know about the professional part but if it helped you then that's great!


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## Newtocooling

Awesome thanks for a great review!


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## stren

Nice work Geggeg - funny that it's always out of stock when I ask lulz

Are you mounting the pumps for your noise measurements or do you have them free floating? I'm curious as to why the 2xMCP35x would be significantly louder than the MCP35x2

Eitherway it backs up what they showed me at CES, more power, more noise, but when turned down does a great job!


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## VSG

Getting these for myself wasn't easy either lol

The pump are free standing on the base of the isolation box. So in the case of the PWM pumps, the flat surface keeps the pump/res combo upright. With the D5 I had to put in a makeshift stand to keep the reservoir upright thanks to the stock top and the orientation of the in/out ports but the pump itself was still free standing on the base. I was pretty skeptical myself of those numbers till I decided to replicate that loop outside in front of me. The 2x MCP35X pumps were not only louder, they also had a slight buzz to them compared to MCP35X2 where the two pumps were working together correctly.


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## cpachris

Excellent review! The more things change, the more they stay the same. D5 for silence ...DDC for power. +rep for you!


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## VSG

Or a hybrid for both!


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## We of Us

Well, ourcells MCP50x has a slightly more same PWM curve as the MCP35X.

It tops the RPM at 70%-75% PWM signal, and actually wecells would like to have such PWM curve like youcells have, topping RPM @ 90-100%.


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## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *We of Us*
> 
> Well, ourcells MCP50x has a slightly more same PWM curve as the MCP35X.
> 
> It tops the RPM at 70%-75% PWM signal, and actually wecells would like to have such PWM curve like youcells have, topping RPM @ 90-100%.


Is that with the MCP30 or the full MCP50X? Both my samples were near identical in the PWM curve as seen above so that's surprising. What are you using to set the PWM signal at?


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## We of Us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Is that with the MCP30 or the full MCP50X?


With MCP50X.

Wecells use Speedfan 4.49 to change the PWM %. Motherboard BIOS Fan speed at max.


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## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *We of Us*
> 
> With MCP50X.
> 
> Wecells use Speedfan 4.49 to change the PWM %. Motherboard BIOS Fan speed at max.


Thanks for the info, I will try to replicate that and see if the controller has an impact.


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## We of Us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Thanks for the info, I will try to replicate that and see if the controller has an impact.


We can give our PWM % RPM's:

0% = 1205 RPM
5% = 1232 RPM
10% = 1520 RPM
15% = 1705 RPM
20% = 1940 RPM
25% = 2163 RPM
30% = 2377 RPM
35% = 2596 RPM
40% = 2813 RPM
45% = 3068 RPM
50% = 3245 RPM
55% = 3444 RPM
60% = 3668 RPM
65% = 3835 RPM
70% = 4116 RPM
75% = 4219 RPM
80% = 4327 RPM Absolute top speed reached.

These are peak values. At 80% average is the same as 75%.


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## VSG

Interesting.. Both of these went from 1200 at 1% to 4487-4494 at 100%, the pump specs says it goes from 1200-4500 RPM so for some reason your pump is not going all the way to the max speed.


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## We of Us

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> the pump specs says it goes from 1200-4500 RPM so for some reason your pump is not going all the way to the max speed.


Our pump averages at 4000 RMP at 100%.

Our +12V is +11,904V average.

That might be partly the reason.


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## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *We of Us*
> 
> Our pump averages at 4000 RMP at 100%.
> 
> Our +12V is +11,904V average.
> 
> That might be partly the reason.


Also, you have to keep in mind that just like with fans our listed speeds can be within 10%.


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## springs113

Good job, I am currently loving my MCP50X and wouldn't change it for the world lol.


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## WhiteWulfe

Definitely a great read, and love how detailed it is (especially the separate high and low restriction loops!)

I'm also rather curious about a custom top, so hope they announce it soon (especially a dual top!)


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## VSG

Let Gabe and Bryan know of your interest as well!


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## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WhiteWulfe*
> 
> Definitely a great read, and love how detailed it is (especially the separate high and low restriction loops!)
> 
> I'm also rather curious about a custom top, so hope they announce it soon (especially a dual top!)


We are looking at making a clear mod top for these. However it's not likely that the top itself will be offered as a stand-alone part. This is due to the design of the pump and the difficulty involved with removing and replacing the top on a pump like this.

Unfortunately we don't have a dual top for these in the works right now. One might be considered later on though when we have more time to consider it and work on such a design.


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## WhiteWulfe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> We are looking at making a clear mod top for these. However it's not likely that the top itself will be offered as a stand-alone part. This is due to the design of the pump and the difficulty involved with removing and replacing the top on a pump like this.
> 
> Unfortunately we don't have a dual top for these in the works right now. One might be considered later on though when we have more time to consider it and work on such a design.


Ooooh, a clear top... Sounds rather neat! Thankfully, I won't be picking up parts for at least another 5 months or so (clearing up a few things on the side to make acquiring the next stage of my gaming rig a LOT easier come tax time), so purchasing it as a pre-built won't be an issue for me. I might pick up watercooling parts sooner (to cool current gear) though.


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## ganzosrevenge

Bryan,

Will the H240x have an MCP50x?

(Please say yes, so i can expand without having to think about second pumps







)


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## Winrahr

It's unfortunate that the lack of a res pump combo is the deal breaker for me (the swiftech res is too tall)


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## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ganzosrevenge*
> 
> Bryan,
> 
> Will the H240x have an MCP50x?
> 
> (Please say yes, so i can expand without having to think about second pumps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Fairly certain they said the only difference in that and the H220x is the rad.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Winrahr*
> 
> It's unfortunate that the lack of a res pump combo is the deal breaker for me (the swiftech res is too tall)


If you need something smaller than that, is a male-male adapter not enough? Heck, it held up my 400 mL reservoir without any problem.


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## Winrahr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> If you need something smaller than that, is a male-male adapter not enough? Heck, it held up my 400 mL reservoir without any problem.


I've thought about it. With a male to male adapter I have enough space for a 40mm tall res (to account for the top port) because resevoirs with side ports are all too tall... SFF problems


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## VSG

At 40 mm of height, I would consider a custom reservoir to be honest.


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## stren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Fairly certain they said the only difference in that and the H220x is the rad.
> If you need something smaller than that, is a male-male adapter not enough? Heck, it held up my 400 mL reservoir without any problem.


At CES they were saying the h220x would get a detuned mcp50x so that noobs wouldn't complain about the noise.


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## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stren*
> 
> At CES they were saying the h220x would get a detuned mcp50x so that noobs wouldn't complain about the noise.


Ya, the MCP30 in the H220x/H240x is a detuned MCP50X. Now I can appreciate why they did that


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## stren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Ya, the MCP30 in the H220x/H240x is a detuned MCP50X. Now I can appreciate why they did that


Yeah I don't think they;'ll do any kits with the 50x simply because it's hard to get rid of a bad name for something even if it's the end user's fault.


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## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *We of Us*
> 
> Well, ourcells MCP50x has a slightly more same PWM curve as the MCP35X.
> 
> It tops the RPM at 70%-75% PWM signal, and actually wecells would like to have such PWM curve like youcells have, topping RPM @ 90-100%.


I'm no PWM expert or Speed Fan expert, nor do I truly understand the Advanced options in Speed Fan.. All I can say for sure when using Speed Fan to control 8 PWM fans is that changing the PWMOUT clock can give vastly different PWM response.

I have no idea if messing with PWMOUT clock is harmful to the pump or even my fans, use at your own risk! I made a thread asking about PWMOUT clock quite a long time ago but never really got an answer. Maybe someone like stren, Martin, or IT Diva knows and can explain in layman's terms?

Changing PWMOUT clock also vastly changes the noise/sound of my fans. Depending on the PWM % sometimes the fans make annoying high pitched noise. Changing PWMOUT clock seems to greatly change the pitch of this noise or make it go away completely. The stock setting I think was 3M or 6M? Currently I have it set to 24M.

Amazing review gegeg!







Can't wait to get one of these pumps, still haven't decided on external res or other options.


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## ganzosrevenge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Ya, the MCP30 in the H220x/H240x is a detuned MCP50X. Now I can appreciate why they did that


Agreed. Fan noise, I can tolerate all day long... the pump at full blast, sounds like a vibrator on crack.


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## IT Diva

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ganzosrevenge*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Ya, the MCP30 in the H220x/H240x is a detuned MCP50X. Now I can appreciate why they did that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. Fan noise, I can tolerate all day long... the pump at full blast, *sounds like a vibrator on crack*.
Click to expand...

Interesting analogy . . . . .

I'm somewhat curious to know how one would come to have such information . . . .









D.


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## WhiteWulfe

Vibrator on crack... How did a concrete vibe get involved in this?


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## SwishaMane

Great review! But the close up pics make it looks like junk. All the imperfections in the plastic forming. Little burrs and chips here and there. BUT, I wonder how bad anything plastic i own would be if I had close ups like that. I've been looking for a 655 replacement, since they like to die on me within 2 years.


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## springs113

Well
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SwishaMane*
> 
> Great review! But the close up pics make it looks like junk. All the imperfections in the plastic forming. Little burrs and chips here and there. BUT, I wonder how bad anything plastic i own would be if I had close ups like that. I've been looking for a 655 replacement, since they like to die on me within 2 years.


I have this pump and it's been great a lot quieter than I thought.


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## ganzosrevenge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IT Diva*
> 
> Interesting analogy . . . . .
> 
> I'm somewhat curious to know how one would come to have such information . . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> D.


The things one hears when one has college-bound little sisters....

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WhiteWulfe*
> 
> Vibrator on crack... How did a concrete vibe get involved in this?


What concrete vibe? All I said was a vibrator on crack


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## WhiteWulfe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ganzosrevenge*
> 
> The things one hears when one has college-bound little sisters....
> What concrete vibe? All I said was a vibrator on crack


Because concrete vibrators are literally vibrators on crack?


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## Ampt

Great review! Loved all the pictures and comparisons between it and the 35X!

For what it's worth, that glue like substance surrounding the motor is called Potting Compound and is used a lot on parts going into high stress environments like automotive, industry, or other applications where the electronics could be damaged. Here it looks like they're using it to dampen any vibrations and keep any water from shorting the motor out.


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## Jakusonfire

Good job on the review. Lots of good detail is always nice to see.
Its interesting to see the differences and similarities between the it and the 35X. It looks to have some advantages simply because it has been designed with the watercooling loop function in mind and tuned for it from the get-go whereas the Laing pumps are repurposed. The Sleeve bearing will be something to watch to see if it gets louder with age compared to the single bearing hemi pumps.
Overall it seems an impressive effort for a small company like Swiftech. How it compares to pumps designed by a dedicated and experienced pump maker is something we will just have to wait and see I guess.


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## Wolfsbora

Well done, VSG!! I've been quite curious as to how the MCP50X would perform against its counterpart.


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## Rickles

Great review! If I were to get back into water this would be my pump.


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## VSG

Thanks guys








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ampt*
> 
> Great review! Loved all the pictures and comparisons between it and the 35X!
> 
> For what it's worth, that glue like substance surrounding the motor is called Potting Compound and is used a lot on parts going into high stress environments like automotive, industry, or other applications where the electronics could be damaged. Here it looks like they're using it to dampen any vibrations and keep any water from shorting the motor out.


Good to know, I figured the purpose was that but had no idea what the exact material was called. Thanks!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jakusonfire*
> 
> Good job on the review. Lots of good detail is always nice to see.
> Its interesting to see the differences and similarities between the it and the 35X. It looks to have some advantages simply because it has been designed with the watercooling loop function in mind and tuned for it from the get-go whereas the Laing pumps are repurposed. The Sleeve bearing will be something to watch to see if it gets louder with age compared to the single bearing hemi pumps.
> Overall it seems an impressive effort for a small company like Swiftech. How it compares to pumps designed by a dedicated and experienced pump maker is something we will just have to wait and see I guess.


So it is indeed a sleeve bearing? I was in two minds about calling it one but wasn't a 100% sure. Definitely a good job by Swiftech!


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## Jakusonfire

Oh no I wouldn't rely on that being correct. It just looks, well, ... sort of sleevish. Whatever it is it is very different to the amazing but sometimes fragile single bearing of the Laing pumps.


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## VSG

Yup, same thoughts here. All I had was looks to go by.


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## IT Diva

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jakusonfire*
> 
> Oh no I wouldn't rely on that being correct. It just looks, well, ... sort of sleevish. Whatever it is it is very different to the amazing but sometimes fragile single bearing of the Laing pumps.


It's probably ceramic, and in the immersed environment, should last nearly indefinitely.

The design is nice for a durable, good performing, stock pump at a great price point, . . . . .

The downside as I see it, is that it looks like it came off a 3D printer and there's really nothing you can do about it.

The DDC lets you pull the guts out of the plastic housing to go with a nice EK or BP dress up metal housing that also helps the cooling and negates the need for the ugly add on heat sink.

Even if they come out with a nicer looking or a dual top, it won't undo the fuglies.

This looks like it's aimed at the entry level water cooler who just needs good solid reliable performance at an entry level price, but hasn't yet developed the eye for aesthetics.

Darlene


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## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IT Diva*
> 
> It's probably ceramic, and in the immersed environment, should last nearly indefinitely.
> 
> The design is nice for a durable, good performing, stock pump at a great price point, . . . . .
> 
> The downside as I see it, is that it looks like it came off a 3D printer and there's really nothing you can do about it.
> 
> The DDC lets you pull the guts out of the plastic housing to go with a nice EK or BP dress up metal housing that also helps the cooling and negates the need for the ugly add on heat sink.
> 
> Even if they come out with a nicer looking or a dual top, it won't undo the fuglies.
> 
> This looks like it's aimed at the entry level water cooler who just needs good solid reliable performance at an entry level price, but hasn't yet developed the eye for aesthetics.
> 
> Darlene


As small as it is the pump can be fairly easily hidden. Thank you for your input though Darlene, it's always appreciated.


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## VSG

I don't mind the looks myself, but I can definitely appreciate having options for housing and tops. That plexi top in the making will be interesting- it will reveal the magnetic impeller in action as well.


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## Dyson Poindexter

Is this going to replace the older pumps or will they continue to be sold? There's a healthy ecosystem of accessories around the DDCs and I'd hate to see all that dry up.

Will this make it's way into an Apogee Drive III?


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## bond32

Awesome!! Love these pumps. I just wish there were more mounting options. Otherwise they are pretty darn impressive.


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## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyson Poindexter*
> 
> Is this going to replace the older pumps or will they continue to be sold? There's a healthy ecosystem of accessories around the DDCs and I'd hate to see all that dry up.
> 
> Will this make it's way into an Apogee Drive III?


There are no plans at this time to discontinue our DDC line of pumps. As for an Apogee Drive III, that's something that hasn't even been considered as of yet.


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## CaliLife17

So this is prob a dumb question so I apologize in advance. How can you tell if your loop is a more restrictive loop or low/med type? Is it just based on Tubing size, # of components in the loop? I sadly don't have a flow meter in my loop, so i cant see what my loop is doing.

Trying to see how i can tell for my next build.


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## VSG

The pressure drop of your loop is a sum of the individual component pressure drops and also varies with flowrate. The most practical solution would be to get a flowmeter and see how your pump(s) handles the loop. The more precise way would be to set up a manometer measuring the pressure drop at the two extreme ends of your loop- inlet to pump and outlet from pump- via a splitter fitting.

In the end, the component temperatures are all that matter so you can also use them to decide if the pump(s) is doing what you want.


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## bond32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> The pressure drop of your loop is a sum of the individual component pressure drops and also varies with flowrate. The most practical solution would be to get a flowmeter and see how your pump(s) handles the loop. The more precise way would be to set up a manometer measuring the pressure drop at the two extreme ends of your loop- inlet to pump and outlet from pump- via a splitter fitting.
> 
> In the end, the component temperatures are all that matter so you can also use them to decide if the pump(s) is doing what you want.


Well said...

Personally I always assumed my single D5 was fine for 3 gpu blocks (parallel), cpu block, and 5 rads. Temperatures were somewhat ok, however when I added the 2 MCP50X pumps they drastically improved.


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## CaliLife17

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond32*
> 
> Well said...
> 
> Personally I always assumed my single D5 was fine for 3 gpu blocks (parallel), cpu block, and 5 rads. Temperatures were somewhat ok, however when I added the 2 MCP50X pumps they drastically improved.


Ya that is what i am basically deciding. I will have 4x GTX nemesis Rads, 2-3 GPU blocks, and a CPU block. Trying to see if my 2x D5 pumps are going to be enough, or if i switch over. How do you have your 2x MCP50x pumps set up in your loop?


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## bond32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CaliLife17*
> 
> Ya that is what i am basically deciding. I will have 4x GTX nemesis Rads, 2-3 GPU blocks, and a CPU block. Trying to see if my 2x D5 pumps are going to be enough, or if i switch over. How do you have your 2x MCP50x pumps set up in your loop?


2 D5's should be fine. My 2 are set up like this: 

Probably change it this weekend but it will always be some sort of the second pump being fed from the discharge of the first (series). My 2 MCP50x's do perfectly fine for my loop, im sure 2 D5's would be fine for yours. I have even changed the gpu's to series and the temps are much better.


----------



## Ramzinho

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> There are no plans at this time to discontinue our DDC line of pumps. As for an Apogee Drive III, that's something that hasn't even been considered as of yet.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> The pressure drop of your loop is a sum of the individual component pressure drops and also varies with flowrate. The most practical solution would be to get a flowmeter and see how your pump(s) handles the loop. The more precise way would be to set up a manometer measuring the pressure drop at the two extreme ends of your loop- inlet to pump and outlet from pump- via a splitter fitting.
> 
> In the end, the component temperatures are all that matter so you can also use them to decide if the pump(s) is doing what you want.


Amazing pump... PWM cable tooooooooooo short.. please include an extension.


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## VSG

Yeah I mentioned that in the summary section- it will be ok for most guys, but I know I will need PWM extensions as well.


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## Ampt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> I'm no PWM expert or Speed Fan expert, nor do I truly understand the Advanced options in Speed Fan.. All I can say for sure when using Speed Fan to control 8 PWM fans is that changing the PWMOUT clock can give vastly different PWM response.
> 
> I have no idea if messing with PWMOUT clock is harmful to the pump or even my fans, use at your own risk! I made a thread asking about PWMOUT clock quite a long time ago but never really got an answer. Maybe someone like stren, Martin, or IT Diva knows and can explain in layman's terms?
> 
> Changing PWMOUT clock also vastly changes the noise/sound of my fans. Depending on the PWM % sometimes the fans make annoying high pitched noise. Changing PWMOUT clock seems to greatly change the pitch of this noise or make it go away completely. The stock setting I think was 3M or 6M? Currently I have it set to 24M.
> 
> Amazing review gegeg!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't wait to get one of these pumps, still haven't decided on external res or other options.


Not 100% sure on the phrasing you're using, but it sounds like you're changing the number of pwm signals you're sending out in any given timeframe. You can think of pwm like turning a switch on and off really quickly. It always gets turned on every x number of milliseconds (or micro seconds, whichever the case may be) but the length of time you wait is what determines the duty cycle. If you turn it off halfway between on cycles, that gives you 50%, duty cycle. Your pwm clock is likely how long between on signals, so you're finding less noise if you cycle your switch more in the same amount of time


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## M3TAl

I'm not sure of my phrasing either haha, just what Speed Fan gives... I understand the basic operation of PWM and this image sums up my basic understanding perfectly. Would be awesome if someone knows for 100% what PWMOUT Clock is/does.

Oh and the information on this PWMOUT Clock in the speed fan manual was slim to none.


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## sdmf74

I'm really digging this new pump as well, mine is somewhat hidden for aesthetics. I may purchase a second pump if they release a newer version with a much better lookin top but I would definately buy a pair if they release them with
a dual top, come on swiftech?


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## hwoverclkd

nice review...very helpful. But pictures could be a little bit better


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## VSG

Anything in particular? I am always up for suggestions.


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## springs113

things are so subjective, i found the pictures to be great, showed what i needed to see.


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## M3TAl

Some people find the pump ugly? Doesn't seem ugly to me.


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## VSG

Looks are subjective and pictures don't necessarily show the reality all the time. For example, I was indifferent about the dark matter finish on the HWL Nemesis rads till I saw/held them in person. Now I am a big fan!


----------



## CaliLife17

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Looks are subjective and pictures don't necessarily show the reality all the time. For example, I was indifferent about the dark matter finish on the HWL Nemesis rads till I saw/held them in person. Now I am a big fan!


Same, I actually started to like the finish on my HWLabs Rads. was not nearly the big deal the internet made it be.

Also cant wait for your GTX Nemesis reviews!


----------



## DaveLT

That's conformal coating not glue


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> That's conformal coating not glue


Potting compounds and conformal coating are what I was suggested, I just said glue-like because I wasn't sure. Thanks for letting me know


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## lostboy5977

I think they look kinda good, better when you have two!


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## springs113

I think so too it's just not like the other pumps with all the different mods available which I don't mind.


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## Faster_is_better

Great review, lots of info.


----------



## BaK2BaK

Excellent review, helps a lot!








First and only one available on the web I guess!


----------



## VSG

The mainstream tech "reviewers" don't care enough for individual components or have no time. Stren hasn't received samples yet and Martin has taken a well deserved hiatus. So it wasn't surprising to see this was the first one out there.


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## Unicr0nhunter

Nice work with the testing.









It answers some of my questions regarding this new pump. Would still really like to see head pressure results combined with the flow rate data in a graph showing its PQ curve to know a little better how well the pump actually performs compared to other popular pumps. Assuming no one's done that kind of testing yet hopefully it won't be too long before someone does.


----------



## bond32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> The mainstream tech "reviewers" don't care enough for individual components or have no time. Stren hasn't received samples yet and Martin has taken a well deserved hiatus. So it wasn't surprising to see this was the first one out there.


Still, freaking awesome job. Hope you continue to do reviews like this.

In other news, I have decided to embark on the copper tubing project... Starting with rigid acrylic but will eventually move to copper. My first project is coupling the two MCP50x pumps with a rigid connection. Ideally I would like to have them oriented side by side at the same height. However, I have a DDC bracket coming in today that orients the pump 90 degrees. Should start work on it this weekend...

Here's the base I ordered: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/13153/ex-pmp-137/Phobya_Universal_Pump_Mount_Base_-_Silver_Laing_DDC_MCP350_Series_Eheim_52086.html?tl=g30c107s156

Here's the angled holder: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/23692/ex-pmp-307/EK_UNI_Holder_DDC_Liquid_Cooling_Mount_Adapter_V2_-_EK-UNI_Holder_DDC_V2.html?tl=g30c107s156

Anyone used this: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14523/ex-pmp-170/Alphacool_Laing_DDC_MCP35x_SilentBox_-_Black_.html?tl=g30c107s156

Silent box looks cool...


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unicr0nhunter*
> 
> Nice work with the testing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It answers some of my questions regarding this new pump. Would still really like to see head pressure results combined with the flow rate data in a graph showing its PQ curve to know a little better how well the pump actually performs compared to other popular pumps. Assuming no one's done that kind of testing yet hopefully it won't be too long before someone does.


If you can explain how to measure it, and if I have the parts with me here, I can try my best.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond32*
> 
> Still, freaking awesome job. Hope you continue to do reviews like this.
> 
> In other news, I have decided to embark on the copper tubing project... Starting with rigid acrylic but will eventually move to copper. My first project is coupling the two MCP50x pumps with a rigid connection. Ideally I would like to have them oriented side by side at the same height. However, I have a DDC bracket coming in today that orients the pump 90 degrees. Should start work on it this weekend...
> 
> Here's the base I ordered: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/13153/ex-pmp-137/Phobya_Universal_Pump_Mount_Base_-_Silver_Laing_DDC_MCP350_Series_Eheim_52086.html?tl=g30c107s156
> 
> Here's the angled holder: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/23692/ex-pmp-307/EK_UNI_Holder_DDC_Liquid_Cooling_Mount_Adapter_V2_-_EK-UNI_Holder_DDC_V2.html?tl=g30c107s156
> 
> Anyone used this: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14523/ex-pmp-170/Alphacool_Laing_DDC_MCP35x_SilentBox_-_Black_.html?tl=g30c107s156
> 
> Silent box looks cool...


Looks good, other than the silent box part- these pumps are taller and that looks to have no leeway in height.


----------



## bond32

I think it would just compress the foam slightly more. I didn't order the box but thought it was a cool concept.


----------



## madmalkav

Anyone got the Maelstrom V2 bay reservoir with integraded MCP50X? If so, how are the sound levels? Also, is the front panel detachable or at least the "Maelstrom V2 by Swiftech" thingy ? It seems an interesting product price/perfomance wise and I'm considering purchasing it, but it looks ugly for my taste and the lack of front filling port also is a drawback for me.


----------



## spikezone2004

I love my MCP50x I have mine running at 32% power cant even hear it at all. that's with cpu block, vrm mosfet block, 290 full block, and 3 radiators don't need more than 32% power to get ample flow.


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spikezone2004*
> 
> I love my MCP50x I have mine running at 32% power cant even hear it at all. that's with cpu block, vrm mosfet block, 290 full block, and 3 radiators don't need more than 32% power to get ample flow.


What about noise at 100%


----------



## springs113

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> What about noise at 100%


you can definitely hear this thing at 100...trust me. I try to keep it @around 2500rpm max...I like to keep it around 1200rpm. Around that range even with 2 290s and an overclocked 5930, cpu never passes 65 stress testing and the gpus trend to over around that same mark.


----------



## VSG

Heh yeah, the thing is definitely the loudest of the three pumps at 100%


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *spikezone2004*
> 
> I love my MCP50x I have mine running at 32% power cant even hear it at all. that's with cpu block, vrm mosfet block, 290 full block, and 3 radiators don't need more than 32% power to get ample flow.
> 
> 
> 
> What about noise at 100%
Click to expand...

There's no need to run at 100% as you get 95% of the power at much lower duty cycle unlike the non-ddc pumps. I don't know the numbers on the 50x but the 35x only ever needs to go up to 53% duty cycle. The only time my rig hits that DC level is benching, and the best thing is I don't have to reach into the rig to turn knob on the pump.

It will be interesting to see the dual and triple tops for this thing. You could fit three of these and use up less space than two D5 easily.


----------



## WhiteWulfe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> It will be interesting to see the dual and triple tops for this thing. You could fit three of these and use up less space than two D5 easily.


I could've sworn Swiftech said they had no plans of doing such for the time being... But I can't find their rep's reply stating such.


----------



## VSG

Ya, no plans for a dual top at this time is all I keep getting. Hopefully all these posts showing interest in one gets Gabe to ok it.


----------



## WhiteWulfe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Ya, no plans for a dual top at this time is all I keep getting. Hopefully all these pots showing interest in one gets Gabe to ok it.


I can't resist, I can't resist... Didn't realize Swiftech was into pots. Is this new line going to be cast iron, ceramic coated aluminum, etc?


----------



## VSG

Posts


----------



## WhiteWulfe

Like I said, couldn't resist. ^_^


----------



## madmalkav

Is my google-fu failing me or they are still unavailable in any EU stores?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madmalkav*
> 
> Is my google-fu failing me or they are still unavailable in any EU stores?


That's correct. They aren't available there yet, but they will be very shortly. I'd say to start checking in about a week and our EU resellers should start having them available.


----------



## bond32

Adding a fourth 290x this weekend... What is everyone's thoughts on this? I have been running series flow on the three I have. Using 2 MCP50X pumps now, at one time I used the two plus a D5 all at full blast. Dropped down and ran just the two swiftech pumps and seemed to have no change in temps.

I'm wondering if the two MCP50x pumps, even running around 60% pwm, would be fine for series flow on 4 gpu's... I'm thinking I might go back to a parallel setup as series wasn't quite the improvement I was expecting.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond32*
> 
> Adding a fourth 290x this weekend... What is everyone's thoughts on this? I have been running series flow on the three I have. Using 2 MCP50X pumps now, at one time I used the two plus a D5 all at full blast. Dropped down and ran just the two swiftech pumps and seemed to have no change in temps.
> 
> I'm wondering if the two MCP50x pumps, even running around 60% pwm, would be fine for series flow on 4 gpu's... I'm thinking I might go back to a parallel setup as series wasn't quite the improvement I was expecting.


Have you considered a dual parallel configuration? That's what will probably be the best way to configure a quad GPU setup. What you'll do is have the top two and the bottom two cards setup in a parallel configuration, but have them separated by a series connection. Does this make sense?


----------



## bond32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Have you considered a dual parallel configuration? That's what will probably be the best way to configure a quad GPU setup. What you'll do is have the top two and the bottom two cards setup in a parallel configuration, but have them separated by a series connection. Does this make sense?


Yep, makes perfect sense. Only issue is that I already have the Koolance connector for 4 gpu's. I don't believe it will allow for such a setup, it's either full series or full parallel. And I don't think I have any options as the cards are so close so a connector between the two is out. I'll try to dig up some info on what pressure drops are associated with these koolance blocks...


----------



## shremi

Guys i have a question i bought 2 of these since my D5s were just simply taking to much space and they are about 4 years old ..... I know there isnt such a dual mount but i was wondering if anyone here is using dual pumps how do you have the configured ?????

Also i rea somewhere that there is a problem regarding the controller for the speed of the pump and current fan controllers i have the fan controller that came with the phanteks primo and also the one that came with my x99 deluse has anyone tried to controll the speed using any of this ???

Thanks

Shremi


----------



## DaveLT

I just wish Swiftech didn't have that high of an RMA count on them.
I asked the local distributor and he said he's so tired of bringing swiftech in because of the extreme rates of RMA for their AIOs and pumps as well as blocks ._.


----------



## VSG

The most elegant way would probably be how @bond32 did it:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond32*
> 
> Warning: mind blowing carpentry skills:


You can just use male-male adapters to hook them up this way and the ports pretty much line up perfectly.


----------



## shremi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> The most elegant way would probably be how @bond32 did it:
> You can just use male-male adapters to hook them up this way and the ports pretty much line up perfectly.


Wow that is amazing i saw his post using the universal mounting solutions by phobya i plan on doing it that way and then use some velcro to put them in my case i just dont know if the base is compatible with the 50x i guess i want to know if the 50x uses the same mounting points as the 35x


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> I just wish Swiftech didn't have that high of an RMA count on them.
> I asked the local distributor and he said he's so tired of bringing swiftech in because of the extreme rates of RMA for their AIOs and pumps as well as blocks ._.


What? Where are you getting this from? Our RMA rate on these particularly pumps stands at less than 2%.


----------



## hyp36rmax

thanks for the info!


----------



## sdmf74

More people wanting a dual pump & top for the 50x. Im hoping if enough of us bug bryan then they will bring these to market for us sooner than later. I havent had any problems with mine (connected directly to motherboard). I also have an H220 ver 1 and its still going strong as well.


----------



## VSG

In the end it's Gabe's decision. But definitely let them know, I am hoping for one myself!


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> What? Where are you getting this from? Our RMA rate on these particularly pumps stands at less than 2%.


My local distributor, Tech Dynamic.


----------



## WhiteWulfe

Yeah, it would be rather lovely to see a dual version.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> My local distributor, Tech Dynamic.


I don't know them, but I think they're in Singapore and received products from our distributor there called Tirupati. We're looking into this because Tirupati has reported a number of unusual issues. We're thinking that they might actually be shipping related at this point. That's just speculation, but we're looking into it.


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I don't know them, but I think they're in Singapore and received products from our distributor there called Tirupati. We're looking into this because Tirupati has reported a number of unusual issues. We're thinking that they might actually be shipping related at this point. That's just speculation, but we're looking into it.


Yes they are in Singapore. Tirupati? Who on earth are tirupati


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Tirupati Enterprises
> 11, Robert Street, 1st Floor,
> Behind Bow Bazar Police Station,
> Kolkata - 700012. India
> Phone - +919831022600
> Email - [email protected]
> Web - www.tirupati.net
> Online Store - www.overclockerszone.com
> Facebook - www.facebook.com/tirupatient


http://www.swiftech.com/internationalresellers.aspx


----------



## bond32

These pumps are actually quite quiet when the air is fully bled out of the loop, I am surprised. Even at full 100%, the sound they make is only slightly higher to me over my AP-15's running at 1000 rpm. Of course, I have a substantial vibration damper on one though...


----------



## VSG

I didn't notice them to be that much quiet when the air was bled, I bet the dampener helped a lot. I will try out the stock pads and see how much they help- can't really expect people to all buy other dampeners.


----------



## bond32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> I didn't notice them to be that much quiet when the air was bled, I bet the dampener helped a lot. I will try out the stock pads and see how much they help- can't really expect people to all buy other dampeners.


Stock ones aren't bad, but I had access to a roof curb for pipe support which is perfect for this:

Hardest part was finding a darn bandsaw to cut it. Finally found a wood shop that did it but it freaked them out because it smoked big when the blade went in it.


----------



## VSG

Oh that does look nice!


----------



## bond32

Yep works perfect, I just didn't have a way to cut it. Really a band saw is the only thing... Now that I am out of school it's strangely hard to find one lol.

Haven't figured out what to do about the second pump yet, but honestly it isn't making much noise at all. The D5 I had made the most vibrations. Thinking I might make a video of them so people can see the noise.


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> I didn't notice them to be that much quiet when the air was bled, I bet the dampener helped a lot. I will try out the stock pads and see how much they help- can't really expect people to all buy other dampeners.


Like any pumps they have a lot of torque (Their RPM is low for what they do in comparison with fans a fan with the turbine size of similar size and power draw) so dampeners are very necessary.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond32*
> 
> Yep works perfect, I just didn't have a way to cut it. Really a band saw is the only thing... Now that I am out of school it's strangely hard to find one lol.
> 
> Haven't figured out what to do about the second pump yet, but honestly it isn't making much noise at all. The D5 I had made the most vibrations. Thinking I might make a video of them so people can see the noise.


D5s don't make much noise but it's mainly due to vibration from their immense torque and also because the impeller/turbine (I prefer that) is larger but probably not as efficient as the MCP50X it seems (I forgot the benchmarks on the OP







)


----------



## shremi

Any word on which fan controller can support this pump i am planing on controlling 2 of them and i would love it to be via hardware instead of software ????


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shremi*
> 
> Any word on which fan controller can support this pump i am planing on controlling 2 of them and i would love it to be via hardware instead of software ????


The only one that is guaranteed to control two of these at this time is the Aquaero. They are a bit pricey, but they come with more more control and software monitoring than you could ever hope to actually use.


----------



## springs113

I find this pump to be loud over 2700 rpm but i never need to go that far, in fact i haven't had mine pass 1600rpm in quite some time.


----------



## M3TAl

Ordered mine last night with some other goodies. Will be in series with a jingway pump.


----------



## Barefooter

Another fantastic review! The impeller looks so awesome!


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Barefooter*
> 
> Another fantastic review! The impeller looks so awesome!


Funnily enough, the Asetek/Cool It AIOs have a similar impeller


----------



## bmyton

+1 on After-Market tops for the MCP50x, I have a low-profile space that I'd like to mount this pump but it really needs the inlet and outlet to both be on the face, not the top.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bmyton*
> 
> +1 on After-Market tops for the MCP50x, I have a low-profile space that I'd like to mount this pump but it really needs the inlet and outlet to both be on the face, not the top.


I don't think that's going to be possible due to the design of these pumps.


----------



## bmyton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I don't think that's going to be possible due to the design of these pumps.


Looking back at the impeller pictures I see what you mean, there would have to be a channel machined into the top above the impeller chamber that entered into the top of the impeller. Would probably end up adding as much height as would be saved by the front mounting fittings.

I think I'm going to order a pump anyway just to see if I can cram it into the case somewhere else.

Thanks for the VERY fast response Bram!

-Ben


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bmyton*
> 
> Looking back at the impeller pictures I see what you mean, there would have to be a channel machined into the top above the impeller chamber that entered into the top of the impeller. Would probably end up adding as much height as would be saved by the front mounting fittings.
> 
> I think I'm going to order a pump anyway just to see if I can cram it into the case somewhere else.
> 
> Thanks for the VERY fast response Bram!
> 
> -Ben


No problem and let me know if you have any other questions.


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bmyton*
> 
> Looking back at the impeller pictures I see what you mean, there would have to be a channel machined into the top above the impeller chamber that entered into the top of the impeller. Would probably end up adding as much height as would be saved by the front mounting fittings.
> 
> I think I'm going to order a pump anyway just to see if I can cram it into the case somewhere else.
> 
> Thanks for the VERY fast response Bram!
> 
> -Ben


See if a low profile non rotary 90º adapter will work out- don't force the angle to be right though!


----------



## bmyton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> See if a low profile non rotary 90º adapter will work out- don't force the angle to be right though!


I'm hoping to get some time tonight to start migrating my build into the new case so I should be able to take some spot measurements. I will grab some pictures and get you guys' opinions on mounting options. Thankfully Swiftech provides awesome line drawings with measurements so that we can actually plan ahead without ordering parts!

Thanks

-Ben


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bmyton*
> 
> I'm hoping to get some time tonight to start migrating my build into the new case so I should be able to take some spot measurements. I will grab some pictures and get you guys' opinions on mounting options. Thankfully Swiftech provides awesome line drawings with measurements so that we can actually plan ahead without ordering parts!
> 
> Thanks
> 
> -Ben


You mean like these?


----------



## bmyton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> You mean like these?


Yup, those are the ones, they are great.

The only dimensions missing are edge-to-centers for the inlet and outlet ports, and a bottom-to-center measurement for the outlet port. Even those are not as critical since it's not hard to make assumptions on those that will be close enough for sizing purposes.

Thanks Bram,

-Ben


----------



## bmyton

Sadly I can't find anywhere in my case that I'll be able to mount the MCP50x...

I have right around 50mm between my GPU and the bottom of the case, and 40mm between the GPU and the front:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!









With the radiator mounted I don't have space on top of the rear exhaust vent to mount anything so I'm probably going to have to stick with the 35x with a front facing top.


----------



## VSG

H220-x? You can also switch out the MCP30 for the full MCP50X pump if need be.


----------



## bmyton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> H220-x? You can also switch out the MCP30 for the full MCP50X pump if need be.


Yeah, the H220 would have been a pretty good pick. The truth is, the Apogee Drive II is probably the best option for this case, but since I already have the CPU block I was hoping to save a little $$.

The MCP35x2 top should fit in the gap, I might consider that option. It would have the benefit of giving me plenty of power to add in expansion cooling:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## VSG

I was talking about the H220-X, with the rad/res/pump combo unit. But if you already have the CPU block then never mind. That's another thing I would like to see back- the rad/res/pump combo alone as an offering.

The MCP35X2 might well need a heatsink, which takes it out of the equation.


----------



## bmyton

I have one last option I'm going to look into on the MCP50X before I give up:



Could someone with a pump please measure the dimensions that I have marked on the line drawings?


----------



## VSG

Sure, gimme a min.

Edit: 1st one is ~41mm, 2nd one is ~38.5mm


----------



## bmyton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> See if a low profile non rotary 90º adapter will work out- don't force the angle to be right though!


I do have more space between the case and the PCB than I do between the case and the WC block... the 90° fittings I have are fairly tall, do you have a spec on a lower profile model?



I could insulate the top of the 90 fitting and then possibly squeeze it between capacitors in the end section of the 290x.


----------



## BaK2BaK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bmyton*
> 
> the 90° fittings I have are fairly tall, do you have a spec on a lower profile model?


http://koolance.com/fitting-single-black-swiveling-elbow-low-profile (Thanx WiSK







)

Hard to fit that pump into an M1 with such a long GPU, even an MCP35X is a tight fit!
That won't be a very convenient position, but did you check the space available in between the CPU block (or above) and the rad? With a slim 240mm rad, there should be room enough to hang the pump up there I think.


----------



## bmyton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BaK2BaK*
> 
> Hard to fit that pump into an M1 with such a long GPU, even an MCP35X is a tight fit!
> That won't be a very convenient position, but did you check the space available in between the CPU block (or above) and the rad? With a slim 240mm rad, there should be room enough to hang the pump up there I think.


That link is great, and with that fitting I might (almost) fit... for now I'm going to table the MCP50x option. I took apart my DCP 2.2 X-Res and found that the pump fits very well laying on its side under the GPU.


Spoiler: Pump FIts









Thanks for all the great feedback guys!


----------



## VSG

^ That's one tight fit all right! Just a bit worried about the pump overheating.


----------



## ljreyl

I'm pretty disappointed in the MCP50x.
Before I installed the MCP50x into my system, I was running a D5 Vario @ setting 5 in this loop:

D5 w/X-Res 140mm Top > 240mm Rad > EK Supremacy > 360mm Rad > 295x2 Block > 290x Block > D5 w/X-Res 140mm Top

I bought this pump thinking that it would help flow with my loop since it's pretty restrictive, but the D5 ended up giving much better results.

I ran the MCP50x at max and it gave me worse temps than what I was already getting with the D5, plus it was way too loud. Lowering the RPM via PWM didn't help either. Super disappointing...

Temps with D5 @ Setting 5:
CPU - 71c
295x2 - 59c / 62c
290x - 59c

Temps with MCP50x @ Max (4500 RPM)
CPU - 73c
295x2 - 62c / 65c
290x - 62c

Bench was Heaven 4.0 @ 2560/1440p, everything maxed out, 20 minute run.


----------



## bond32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ljreyl*
> 
> I'm pretty disappointed in the MCP50x.
> Before I installed the MCP50x into my system, I was running a D5 Vario @ setting 5 in this loop:
> 
> D5 w/X-Res 140mm Top > 240mm Rad > EK Supremacy > 360mm Rad > 295x2 Block > 290x Block > D5 w/X-Res 140mm Top
> 
> I bought this pump thinking that it would help flow with my loop since it's pretty restrictive, but the D5 ended up giving much better results.
> 
> I ran the MCP50x at max and it gave me worse temps than what I was already getting with the D5, plus it was way too loud. Lowering the RPM via PWM didn't help either. Super disappointing...


Data? Temps? Pretty vague claims there.... Did you hold all other things constant before swapping pumps? Did you test both at the same ambients? Same fan speeds? Same voltage(s) applied to the cooling surfaces?


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ljreyl*
> 
> I'm pretty disappointed in the MCP50x.
> Before I installed the MCP50x into my system, I was running a D5 Vario @ setting 5 in this loop:
> 
> D5 w/X-Res 140mm Top > 240mm Rad > EK Supremacy > 360mm Rad > 295x2 Block > 290x Block > D5 w/X-Res 140mm Top
> 
> I bought this pump thinking that it would help flow with my loop since it's pretty restrictive, but the D5 ended up giving much better results.
> 
> I ran the MCP50x at max and it gave me worse temps than what I was already getting with the D5, plus it was way too loud. Lowering the RPM via PWM didn't help either. Super disappointing...
> 
> Temps with D5 @ Setting 5:
> CPU - 71c
> 295x2 - 59c / 62c
> 290x - 59c
> 
> Temps with MCP50x @ Max (4500 RPM)
> CPU - 73c
> 295x2 - 62c / 65c
> 290x - 62c
> 
> Bench was Heaven 4.0 @ 2560/1440p, everything maxed out, 20 minute run.


What is "pretty restrictive"? Without knowing the exact components, it's hard to tell why you decided to just replace a D5 with this. Also, all a pump does is provide flowrate so how sure are you that the flowrates haven't gone down? I assume you dismantled your loop to change the pump so how sure are you that the mounts are the same as before? What about TIM spread? I hope you see how there are a ton of variables here that can't be taken care of by what you provided above. As far as noise compared to D5, I don't think that was a surprise given the numbers I put up.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> What is "pretty restrictive"? Without knowing the exact components, it's hard to tell why you decided to just replace a D5 with this. Also, all a pump does is provide flowrate so how sure are you that the flowrates haven't gone down? I assume you dismantled your loop to change the pump so how sure are you that the mounts are the same as before? What about TIM spread? I hope you see how there are a ton of variables here that can't be taken care of by what you provided above. As far as noise compared to D5, I don't think that was a surprise given the numbers I put up.


All of this is correct. I can also confirm that the D5 is about the quietest pump that you can purchase. I use an MCP655-B myself and I can't hear it over the fans in my system.


----------



## bond32

Maybe he didn't bleed all the air out? Mine takes about 4 or 5 days to get all the air out, maybe longer....


----------



## ljreyl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> What is "pretty restrictive"? Without knowing the exact components, it's hard to tell why you decided to just replace a D5 with this. Also, all a pump does is provide flowrate so how sure are you that the flowrates haven't gone down? I assume you dismantled your loop to change the pump so how sure are you that the mounts are the same as before? What about TIM spread? I hope you see how there are a ton of variables here that can't be taken care of by what you provided above. As far as noise compared to D5, I don't think that was a surprise given the numbers I put up.


Actually, I did a direct pump/res swap, no touching or changing or removing of anything but the pump and res combo. I went from a D5 w/ EK X-Res to the MCP50X with Swiftech Res (the one that goes directly on top).
All ambient air was the same (24c), time of day was the same (night), and I gave it 24 hours of running to bleed the system (including tilting the system, turning on and off, etc).

As for my exact parts, see below:

D5 w/ EK X-Res 140mm Top > EK PE Series 240mm Rad > EK Supremacy w/4790k @ 4.5GHz, 1.18V > EK PE Series 360mm Rad > EK 295x2 Full Cover Block w/Backplate > 290x Full Cover Block w/Backplate > D5 w/ EK X-Res 140mm Top

Radiator fans are Noctua NF F12's @ 7V each
Intake fans are Noctua NF S12A x2 / Noctua NF A14 @ 7V

Just to reiterate, absolutely nothing was changed except for the pump/res.


----------



## VSG

Those components are hardly restrictive to be honest, I personally would not have switched. Can I request you switch back to the old pump and see if the temps go down again? Without having a flow meter, it is hard to say but it may well be that the D5 is handling that low-med restriction loop just as easy, if not better, than the MCP50X.


----------



## ljreyl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Those components are hardly restrictive to be honest, I personally would not have switched. Can I request you switch back to the old pump and see if the temps go down again? Without having a flow meter, it is hard to say but it may well be that the D5 is handling that low-med restriction loop just as easy, if not better, than the MCP50X.


I switched back last night lol. Went back down to my original temps so I'm a happy camper again.

I thought my loop was restrictive based on the estimates of this thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/1108918/what-can-my-pump-handle-a-guide
Radiators: 0.20 PSI each (the size of the radiator has no real effect)
CPU Block: 1.1 PSI
GPU block: 0.9 PSI
Motherboard block: 2.0 PSI (fullcover)
Fittings: 0.3 PSI for the entire loop
Tubing: 0.5 PSI per meter (3.3 feet)
Reservoir: Negligible

Calculating everything, I have 5PSI of drop. (I considered the 295x2 block to be 2 GPU blocks since it was cooling 2 GPUs on the same PCB. Was I wrong to think this?)


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ljreyl*
> 
> I switched back last night lol. Went back down to my original temps so I'm a happy camper again.
> 
> I thought my loop was restrictive based on the estimates of this thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/1108918/what-can-my-pump-handle-a-guide
> Radiators: 0.20 PSI each (the size of the radiator has no real effect)
> CPU Block: 1.1 PSI
> GPU block: 0.9 PSI
> Motherboard block: 2.0 PSI (fullcover)
> Fittings: 0.3 PSI for the entire loop
> Tubing: 0.5 PSI per meter (3.3 feet)
> Reservoir: Negligible
> 
> Calculating everything, I have 5PSI of drop. (I considered the 295x2 block to be 2 GPU blocks since it was cooling 2 GPUs on the same PCB. Was I wrong to think this?)


Rad size definitely matters, but that seems close enough. D5 can handle that but I would have thought the MCP50X would be better honestly in terms of flowrate.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Rad size definitely matters, but that seems close enough. D5 can handle that but I would have thought the MCP50X would be better honestly in terms of flowrate.


I would have thought so as well.


----------



## ljreyl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Rad size definitely matters, but that seems close enough. D5 can handle that but I would have thought the MCP50X would be better honestly in terms of flowrate.


That's what I was thinking but I guess it wasn't the case. Gonna put this pump/res combo online for sale now.


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ljreyl*
> 
> That's what I was thinking but I guess it wasn't the case. Gonna put this pump/res combo online for sale now.


Without a flowmeter, it isn't easy to be sure. But in the end component temps are all that matter so I think you did the right thing.


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ljreyl*
> 
> That's what I was thinking but I guess it wasn't the case. Gonna put this pump/res combo online for sale now.


How much noise was the MCP50X making? Maybe there's a problem with the pump? My friend's works great. Going to install mine tomorrow.


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Without a flowmeter, it isn't easy to be sure. But in the end component temps are all that matter so I think you did the right thing.


Why would you need a flowmeter for everything ... just the temp difference should explain it.
Flowmeters are good for showing statistics but surely you don't need it to debug a new pump that seems to be worse than the old pump do you.


----------



## VSG

That's assuming the pump was in good working condition, always the chance of an air bubble being trapped in that impeller for example. But yeah, that is more of an exception than the norm.


----------



## spikezone2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ljreyl*
> 
> That's what I was thinking but I guess it wasn't the case. Gonna put this pump/res combo online for sale now.


My mcp50x works great with 3 rads, 3 blocks, i can run it 30% speed and its silent. I put it on the foam pad, and a tiny bit of left over tubing so no vibrations. even with my side case open its silent.


----------



## shremi

Guys I am in a hole here ..... I started my build over the weekend and I am facing a real issue on how to mount the pumps I planed ahead and bought a lot of things but none of them seem to work with this pump









Porque need to mount them on top of my radiator fans which they form an L

Any advice on to achieve this ????


----------



## VSG

Something like the Uni Holder from EK?


----------



## Jugurnot

@geggeg

I have a question about the 2 washers. How are they placed on the impeller shaft? Impeller first, then little washer, then larger indexed washer?

Thanks


----------



## VSG

Yup, that's the way I did it also.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Yup, that's the way I did it also.


Actually, the thin washer should be the one that goes on top.


----------



## Jugurnot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Actually, the thin washer should be the one that goes on top.


Ok great thank you


----------



## VSG

That's not how it was in both the MCP50X pumps I have here as well as the MCP30 though?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> That's not how it was in both the MCP50X pumps I have here as well as the MCP30 though?


OK, I could be wrong then. Unfortunately I won't likely have a definitive answer for you until Monday.


----------



## VSG

Happy Thanksgiving, Bryan!


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving, Bryan!


You too, VSG.


----------



## madmalkav

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> That's correct. They aren't available there yet, but they will be very shortly. I'd say to start checking in about a week and our EU resellers should start having them available.


Any problem with european distribution? I reserved after your message and I'm still waiting the pumps to arrive to the store


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madmalkav*
> 
> Any problem with european distribution? I reserved after your message and I'm still waiting the pumps to arrive to the store


Yeah, I think there are some customs issues. We should have them resolved shortly though.


----------



## VSG

Any luck with the washer order confusion?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Any luck with the washer order confusion?


Our engineer here confirmed that I'm right. When you are putting the impeller back in the pump housing the thinner washer will go on top.


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Our engineer here confirmed that I'm right. When you are putting the impeller back in the pump housing the thinner washer will go on top.


How come all 3 pumps I have here had it the other way round then? If this is an issue, then I wonder how many other pumps are this way.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> How come all 3 pumps I have here had it the other way round then? If this is an issue, then I wonder how many other pumps are this way.


It really doesn't make much of a difference. Our engineer though confirmed that the thinner washer should be on top though. It really just acts as a spacer due to tolerances in the manufacturing of the impellers. Some pumps won't even have the thin washer because it wasn't necessary.


----------



## VSG

If it is a spacer, then yes I can see why having it on top or even not might make sense. But having it on the bottom then seems counterproductive. If some pumps have it on top, others on the bottom and then a few don't have it at all, there's inconsistency in assembly that may or may not affect users.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> If it is a spacer, then yes I can see why having it on top or even not might make sense. But having it on the bottom then seems counterproductive. If some pumps have it on top, others on the bottom and then a few don't have it at all, there's inconsistency in assembly that may or may not affect users.


Thus far we've had virtually 0 issues with these pumps and none at all that would be related to the washers. At this point I think our engineer is right and that for the most part it really doesn't make much of a difference whether the washer is placed on top of the larger one or under it.


----------



## VSG

Well it's been fine for me with the thinner washer underneath with over 100 hours of operation, so I am inclined to think that is fine either way then. If anything changes I will update this thread.


----------



## bond32

Have you guys considered fabricating some sort of bracket to improve the mounting system? For example, a bracket that would utilize the two included screws but would have the same mounts as the existing DDC structure.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond32*
> 
> Have you guys considered fabricating some sort of bracket to improve the mounting system? For example, a bracket that would utilize the two included screws but would have the same mounts as the existing DDC structure.


We haven't really looked into it, but I'll be sure to bring it to our engineer's attention.


----------



## Jugurnot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Thus far we've had virtually 0 issues with these pumps and none at all that would be related to the washers. At this point I think our engineer is right and that for the most part it really doesn't make much of a difference whether the washer is placed on top of the larger one or under it.


Thanks!


----------



## VSG

To add to this discussion, I went ahead and removed the washer off 1 pump and switched things around in the other pump. Both have been on for over 24 hours now in separate loops and so far nothing different from how it was before.


----------



## shremi

Guys to what speed do you recommend me to run 2 pumps ??? my build goes to 3 rads 2 gpu blocks a cpu block and a million of rotary adapters and extenders .


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shremi*
> 
> Guys to what speed do you recommend me to run 2 pumps ??? my build goes to 3 rads 2 gpu blocks a cpu block and a million of rotary adapters and extenders .


The best thing to do is to actually play around with the settings and find what works best for your system. Every situation is going to be a little different, so giving you specific speed to run them at isn't really possible. That looks awesome though.


----------



## dsmwookie

With this pump being cheaper, what is the advantage of the MCP35X?


----------



## Jakusonfire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dsmwookie*
> 
> With this pump being cheaper, what is the advantage of the MCP35X?


There is a large after market of different pump tops, reservoirs, mounts and heatsinks all in different styles and colours for the 35x and the 35x is made by a company with a long history of, and sole purpose of, making water pumps.


----------



## VSG

Also, no long term results for this pump yet. Mine are on and off sporadically at this point until they go into the TX10-D build so other owners would have had more usage of their pumps by now.


----------



## bond32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dsmwookie*
> 
> With this pump being cheaper, what is the advantage of the MCP35X?


To add to the previous post, they are actually very similar in design. But the 50x has slightly higher head, probably less on the flow side but I'm not positive. But no one here should care about flow.

Also, it's a true PWM motor whereas, and I could be totally wrong, the typical DDC pumps are non-PWM variant or they don't have a true PWM curve.

Also, it's slightly smaller than a DDC, but maybe thicker. Mounting of the 50x is wonky I think, it could be improved. The 35x has that standard DDC mounting structure.

On the downsides, and Swiftech I am begging you, please release a dual pump top!! I would gladly throw my money at you if you did such a thing. Screw the warranty, a dual top like the one you have for the 35x would be perfect.


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond32*
> 
> On the downsides, and Swiftech I am begging you, please release a dual pump top!! I would gladly throw my money at you if you did such a thing. Screw the warranty, a dual top like the one you have for the 35x would be perfect.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond32*
> 
> To add to the previous post, they are actually very similar in design. But the 50x has slightly higher head, probably less on the flow side but I'm not positive. But no one here should care about flow.
> 
> Also, it's a true PWM motor whereas, and I could be totally wrong, the typical DDC pumps are non-PWM variant or they don't have a true PWM curve.
> 
> Also, it's slightly smaller than a DDC, but maybe thicker. Mounting of the 50x is wonky I think, it could be improved. The 35x has that standard DDC mounting structure.
> 
> On the downsides, and Swiftech I am begging you, please release a dual pump top!! I would gladly throw my money at you if you did such a thing. Screw the warranty, a dual top like the one you have for the 35x would be perfect.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*


I will be sure to mention this to our engineers again. I have to let everyone here wanting this though know that the engineering involved will likely take several months to complete and then we'll need time to validate the prototype before moving forward with production. A top like is a lengthy process to go from initial design to production.


----------



## VSG

How's the other single pump top going if I may ask?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> How's the other single pump top going if I may ask?


I was told that they're currently in production. With the annealing process though this can take a while.


----------



## VSG

Fair enough, but at least things are making progress there.


----------



## bond32

That's actually much better response than I expected, awesome news.

If you need a tester, send one to VSG. That guy knows his stuff...


----------



## VSG

Nah man, I am just learning all this with you guys as I test and publish the results. Nothing different other than the time, patience and equipment.


----------



## bond32

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Nah man, I am just learning all this with you guys as I test and publish the results. Nothing different other than the time, patience and equipment.


That's just it. I don't know what you do, but at the end of the day I usually don't feel up to the task of writing lengthy reviews... And I'm a nerdy engineer


----------



## ALT F4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shremi*
> 
> Guys to what speed do you recommend me to run 2 pumps ??? my build goes to 3 rads 2 gpu blocks a cpu block and a million of rotary adapters and extenders .


Isn't your parallel tubing incorrect?
I thought you needed to have the inlet and outlet on separate sides otherwise the liquid would just flow through one side without actually going through the block.


----------



## DaveLT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ALT F4*
> 
> Isn't your parallel tubing incorrect?
> I thought you needed to have the inlet and outlet on separate sides otherwise the liquid would just flow through one side without actually going through the block.


Yea outlet needs to be on the left not the right his is wrong on that front.


----------



## Unicr0nhunter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaveLT*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ALT F4*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *shremi*
> 
> Guys to what speed do you recommend me to run 2 pumps ??? my build goes to 3 rads 2 gpu blocks a cpu block and a million of rotary adapters and extenders .
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Pic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isn't your parallel tubing incorrect?
> I thought you needed to have the inlet and outlet on separate sides otherwise the liquid would just flow through one side without actually going through the block.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yea outlet needs to be on the left not the right his is wrong on that front.
Click to expand...

I suspect shremi just used an older pic because we already went through that with him more than a week ago with him in another thread and he fixed it. Then after that he ran into crazy temp issues that turned out to be related to his having fans fighting each other in push-push on his rads and Ceadderman was the one to call it. .


----------



## DaveLT

._. What next, o rings not sealing properly? ._.


----------



## DarthBaggins

Think I found my winner so I can retire my MCP355 since I know it wont make it into the D3sk unless I need it as a backup pump. Good write up as well


----------



## ALT F4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unicr0nhunter*
> 
> I suspect shremi just used an older pic because we already went through that with him more than a week ago with him in another thread and he fixed it. Then after that he ran into crazy temp issues that turned out to be related to his having fans fighting each other in push-push on his rads and Ceadderman was the one to call it. .


Sweet, glad he fixed it. I was just reading through this thread and saw the picture in the gallery.


----------



## sdmf74

I was just searching around looking for any 50x addons and couldnt find any, came here to ask why but I guess I got my answer. I too am waiting patiently for a dual top... or trying to anyway.

I agree with the statement about the mounting issue, I asked for a better means of mounting several months ago hope someone takes notice.


----------



## DMatthewStewart

This is awesome. Thanks for the in-depth post. I am looking forward to dropping this into my h220x hardline acrylic conversion project. I didnt want to risk using the stock pump now that I will have 3 blocks and 3 radiators. If the stock pump fails me then I would have to break everything down...again. So this little guy is going into the h220x in place of the stock pump. My only other thought is should I use two pumps? It seems like it would be unnecessary and overkill.


----------



## VSG

On the other hand, you can retain warranty by simply adding this to the H220-X loop and gain redundancy. You can also slow both down to get the same flow rates as before but at lower noise. It's your call!


----------



## jodybdesigns

Is this pump too powerful for a CPU only setup? I am eyeballing it right now to purchase


----------



## VSG

You can always slow it down, and have room for expansion later.


----------



## spikezone2004

Am I the first to have a mcp50x break?

My pump stopped working last week. Was working perfectly fine then left the room for a little bit came back pc was off and pump was dead.


----------



## ZeDestructor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jodybdesigns*
> 
> Is this pump too powerful for a CPU only setup? I am eyeballing it right now to purchase


There is no such thing as too much pressure


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spikezone2004*
> 
> Am I the first to have a mcp50x break?
> 
> My pump stopped working last week. Was working perfectly fine then left the room for a little bit came back pc was off and pump was dead.


Did you talk to Bryan about this? I haven't heard of any other faults so far so I am curious as to what happened.


----------



## spikezone2004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Did you talk to Bryan about this? I haven't heard of any other faults so far so I am curious as to what happened.


Yes, I talked to Bryan. Great customer service like always I shipped mine out to them they shipped one right back when they got mine. It was really odd it was working fine, showed no signs of breaking prior then suddenly it just stopped. Always run at lower power too 30-40%.

I asked him to let me know what happened to the pump as I was curious about this as well. As far as I know I don't know of any MCP50X's that have gone out yet. I emailed him again yesterday asking if he knows what was wrong with it, I will let you know when he gets back to me.


----------



## jodybdesigns

Thanks for the reply. +1 rep sir
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> You can always slow it down, and have room for expansion later.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZeDestructor*
> 
> There is no such thing as too much pressure


Thanks. +1 to the both of you


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spikezone2004*
> 
> Yes, I talked to Bryan. Great customer service like always I shipped mine out to them they shipped one right back when they got mine. It was really odd it was working fine, showed no signs of breaking prior then suddenly it just stopped. Always run at lower power too 30-40%.
> 
> I asked him to let me know what happened to the pump as I was curious about this as well. As far as I know I don't know of any MCP50X's that have gone out yet. I emailed him again yesterday asking if he knows what was wrong with it, I will let you know when he gets back to me.


Thanks, and good to hear about the prompt replacement


----------



## jodybdesigns

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> You can always slow it down, and have room for expansion later.


I see the pump is listed incorrectly on PPC - it does not list in the title this pump is PWM until i read your review, and double checked the inside stats of the MCP50X.

Found my pump - thanks for the super excellent review.


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> On the other hand, you can retain warranty by simply adding this to the H220-X loop and gain redundancy. You can also slow both down to get the same flow rates as before but at lower noise. It's your call!


I was just about to ask you that









So, if I run both, how would I slow them down? Do I just hook this to the PWM controller and then set my mobo to the lower setting? Right now I have the pwm attached to the channel 1 fan (just like the instrucitons say) and I have it already set to the lowest setting. The rpms on the pump still go up when it thinks it needs to but its still fairly quiet.

Is that the right way or is there another way to connect the two pumps and get them to run the same?

I just ordered the pump today so it should be here in a couple days. Its the last thing I needed to finally get the gpu and the extra rad into the loop. Truthfully, Id rather have this pump outside. That way I wont have to break the whole computer down. Also, if one pump fails then the other can be the backup. And finally, like you said, I dont have to void the warranty. That way if the mcp50x has problems I can still get an RMA out of it.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMatthewStewart*
> 
> I was just about to ask you that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, if I run both, how would I slow them down? Do I just hook this to the PWM controller and then set my mobo to the lower setting? Right now I have the pwm attached to the channel 1 fan (just like the instrucitons say) and I have it already set to the lowest setting. The rpms on the pump still go up when it thinks it needs to but its still fairly quiet.
> 
> Is that the right way or is there another way to connect the two pumps and get them to run the same?
> 
> I just ordered the pump today so it should be here in a couple days. Its the last thing I needed to finally get the gpu and the extra rad into the loop. Truthfully, Id rather have this pump outside. That way I wont have to break the whole computer down. Also, if one pump fails then the other can be the backup. And finally, like you said, I dont have to void the warranty. That way if the mcp50x has problems I can still get an RMA out of it.


Yes, just connect the second pump to the included splitter. This will allow you change the speed of both pumps at the same time. You will only be able to monitor the one that is connected to the channel 1 header though.


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Yes, just connect the second pump to the included splitter. This will allow you change the speed of both pumps at the same time. You will only be able to monitor the one that is connected to the channel 1 header though.


Thanks. As long as it runs at the same speed Im not too concerned with monitoring it. I havent needed to monitor the pump in the h200x since Ive gotten it; it just does what its supposed to do and thats why I love it.


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Just got my MCP50x in the mail. That little sucker is heavier than I thought! It also has a very nice feel all around. Very cool. Now, will I actually take the advice of making this a second pump or will I void my warranty and put this into my h220x? Im conflicted


----------



## VSG

Why not use both anyway? It's a shame to not use that pump you paid for as part of the H220-X and the top on the MCP50X will be wasted also.


----------



## M3TAl

I agree. Use both at lower RPM, redundancy is always a good thing







.

My MCP50X is still doing fine mounted to a G1/4" adapter on a tube res which is ghetto mounted outside the case. Usually run it at ~2400 RPM with a Jingway DP600 pump at 1300-1400 RPM for redundancy and tad bit more flow at low RPM's.


----------



## Circaflex

One of these should be fine for a two 120.3 rad, full cover ek gpu block only loop right? Its in a bench case maybe 4 feet of tubing total.

Also, is a heatsink needed for the bottom like on the mcp35x?

or am i better off getting an mcp35x instead?


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Circaflex*
> 
> One of these should be fine for a two 120.3 rad, full cover ek gpu block only loop right? Its in a bench case maybe 4 feet of tubing total.
> 
> Also, is a heatsink needed for the bottom like on the mcp35x?
> 
> or am i better off getting an mcp35x instead?


No heat sink needed. The mcp50x is more than enough.


----------



## VSG

It should be fine, and no heatsink needed either.


----------



## jodybdesigns

Just ordered mine yesterday. Should be here tomorrow. Super excited. Almost went with ek 4.0 pwm. I have a feeling the $10 diff is going to be a huge bang for my buck. And its from a trusted name. I see swiftech active all over the forums


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jodybdesigns*
> 
> Just ordered mine yesterday. Should be here tomorrow. Super excited. Almost went with ek 4.0 pwm. I have a feeling the $10 diff is going to be a huge bang for my buck. And its from a trusted name. I see swiftech active all over the forums


Are they? I hadn't noticed.


----------



## Circaflex

Thanks for the replies, so what I gathered from this thread the mcp50x is a better choice and the only reason to use a 35x is if you want a aftermarket top/heatsink; basically there are more mods available for the 35x but the 50x performs better?


----------



## jodybdesigns

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Are they? I hadn't noticed.


Yes, the EK-DCP 4.0 PWM is $59.95 + has no goodies, just ugly...black..square....

While the MCP50X is $69.99 + comes with a good top that's not ugly at all and has more head room + l/ph

Swiftech got my hard earned cash today!

I will post some results at the end of the weekend when I am finished with the build.


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jodybdesigns*
> 
> Yes, the EK-DCP 4.0 PWM is $59.95 + has no goodies, just ugly...black..square....
> 
> While the MCP50X is $69.99 + comes with a good top that's not ugly at all and has more head room + l/ph
> 
> Swiftech got my hard earned cash today!
> 
> I will post some results at the end of the weekend when I am finished with the build.


I will say the smaller Jingway pumps (like DP-600/600P) make nice, easy, and quiet backups for redundancy. The wattage is low enough you can plug them in most fan headers or low wattage fan controllers.


----------



## pc-illiterate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> I will say the smaller Jingway pumps (like DP-600/600P) make nice, easy, and quiet backups for redundancy. The wattage is low enough you can plug them in most fan headers or low wattage fan controllers. *look like a brick. weight of a brick. built like a tank. energizer bunny of pumps.*


i fixed that for you.
in a low restriction loop they are awesome.


----------



## jodybdesigns

Currently running the pump at 12 volts on test.. It gurgled, sounded awesome.. Got the air out.. Now its uber. I got some videos shot I'll post them later today but this thing is QUIET


----------



## VSG

Well be sure to run it at 12V only, it's a PWM device after all.


----------



## jodybdesigns

I now currently have it on PWM, I have it about 45%. Dead Silent.

I am seriously loving this pump so far. Its cooling quite awesome I must say, and I cant hear a thing.


----------



## jodybdesigns

Here is a couple videos for the happy thread.

This is about 5 minutes after powering on - notice the slight gurgle - nothing some shakes cant fix



This is about 20 minutes later, after a couple shakes and power cycles. - No Gurgles no clicks no nada.



Enjoy!


----------



## M3TAl

Hahah. Nice video. Mine makes noise full 100% but it's outside the case and probably resonatin with some metal from the case/rad/bracket. Dead silent under 3000 RPM, usually run it 2500 RPM 24/7 with Jingway DP-600 set at 1300 RPM on a fan controller.


----------



## pc-illiterate

i can hear the pump. no idea why he cant. he keeps saying not a sound but you can clearly hear the pump.


----------



## M3TAl

Considering I finally got a working audio interface again... Time to slap the ole Rode NT1-A up next to the MCP50X and let her run full out.

Audio coming shortly. For anyone interested what it sounds like running full out.

NOTE: This is analogous to putting your head/ear right next to the pump. Not what you will hear sitting a normal distance from the PC with the pump inside the case. But yes it definitely makes noise at higher RPM's, nothing too crazy though.


----------



## jodybdesigns

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pc-illiterate*
> 
> i can hear the pump. no idea why he cant. he keeps saying not a sound but you can clearly hear the pump.


That is actually my front intake and rear exhaust fans humming that you hear. I had both video cards, both drives, the 8 pin EPS and the 24 pin disconnected. The fan controller on the case itself was still connected via molex. So the fans is def what you hear.


----------



## pc-illiterate

fair enough. you need to get surround sound on your videos. i couldnt tell it was coming from the right not the center


----------



## jodybdesigns

Agreed sir. It was a quick thought using my crappy Winders phone. I am going to CAREFULLY try and move it to my office so I can take showcase pictures (we are a web design company, my boss LOVES tinker toys).

I am going to get the Canon SLR on it.


----------



## jodybdesigns

As Requested - HD Audio / Video so people can truely know

The pump is running about 3500 - 4000 RPM, you can hear it a bit. But the fans are also to blame. I ramp them up 100% toward the end, it makes the pump inaudible.


----------



## Killa Cam

i got two of these pumps coming on thursday. anybody running serial? whats your config like?


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Hey geggeg, I finally installed this pump in my new loop. Originally I was going to run it along side the h220x and then I changed my mind. This little pump is pretty amazing. Its quiet and it pushes my whole loop no problem. And youre right about the range and effectiveness of the PWM signal. This thing responds accordingly for whatever signal it gets.


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jodybdesigns*
> 
> As Requested - HD Audio / Video so people can truely know
> 
> The pump is running about 3500 - 4000 RPM, you can hear it a bit. But the fans are also to blame. I ramp them up 100% toward the end, it makes the pump inaudible.


One thing I noticed is that it seems like a lot of people run this pump upwards of 100% of its power. I dont know if my loop is unique but I noticed that I can turn mine down to the lower end (Like 30% total power) and there is no difference in performance. Matter of fact, on the upper end it seems like Im pushing the coolant too fast through the radiators...the coolant doesnt have enough time in the radiators to begin to experience the proper cooling and heat dissipation.

Try it out. Run Prime 95 with the pump running fast and then slow it down to 50% or less and run Prime 95 again. See if there is any temp difference. Just an FYI, I run my mcp50x at 25% power for any CPU temp under 25C. And you cant tell its on unless you put your hand on it and feel it running. BTW, it takes a long running of Prime 95 to even get over 25C


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMatthewStewart*
> 
> Hey geggeg, I finally installed this pump in my new loop. Originally I was going to run it along side the h220x and then I changed my mind. This little pump is pretty amazing. Its quiet and it pushes my whole loop no problem. And youre right about the range and effectiveness of the PWM signal. This thing responds accordingly for whatever signal it gets.


Great to hear that!


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Interesting.. Both of these went from 1200 at 1% to 4487-4494 at 100%, the pump specs says it goes from 1200-4500 RPM so for some reason your pump is not going all the way to the max speed.


I was just going to ask you something about the speeds vs the pwm signal...but let me tear through the rest of thread before I ask a question that you may have already answered.

But...I am adding another card next week. So my pump is running 2x240 rads and a 120 rad. I also currently have three blocks. With adding the second card do you think I need to add another pump?

Also, Im only running my pump at 25%. I thought that was really low. But it looks like others have run it even slower. Im sut wondering if I need some type of fan controller to accurately run it slower or if it will actually run slower (and still be ok) from the Mobo


----------



## DMatthewStewart

I have a very general question and then a specific comment.

When you talk about "High restriction" loops, what would make a loop qualify for that title? Is it small space + tight 90 degree bends + using small[er] tubing?

It seems that I can not get my pump below 2000 rpms. Or at least, that ia what my Mobo and Speed Fan are reading it at. I really dont think I need to run it lower than this. But Im wondering if I should try to get a controller to hook it up to in order to test it to see if a different device can force it lower.


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMatthewStewart*
> 
> I have a very general question and then a specific comment.
> 
> When you talk about "High restriction" loops, what would make a loop qualify for that title? Is it small space + tight 90 degree bends + using small[er] tubing?
> 
> It seems that I can not get my pump below 2000 rpms. Or at least, that ia what my Mobo and Speed Fan are reading it at. I really dont think I need to run it lower than this. But Im wondering if I should try to get a controller to hook it up to in order to test it to see if a different device can force it lower.


On my board running the fan control on manual 25% (lowest setting available) the RPM's hover around 1950-2050 RPM. For 24/7 mine runs ~2500 RPM with a Jingway DP-600 at 1200-1400 RPM as backup/redundancy. Where does the cut off for low/high restriction start? Not sure.

Typically what classifies your loop as high restriction is the number of blocks and radiators. If you have 4-5 blocks and 4 radiators, it's likely a high restriction loop. There are also specific blocks or radiators with significantly higher restriction than similar offerings. If you have multiple of these relatively high restriction parts, you likely have a high restriction loop. Adding a bunch of 90 deg fittings will add to the restriction but likely not as much as two high restriction blocks/rads.

I'm no expert so take what I say with some salt.


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> On my board running the fan control on manual 25% (lowest setting available) the RPM's hover around 1950-2050 RPM. For 24/7 mine runs ~2500 RPM with a Jingway DP-600 at 1200-1400 RPM as backup/redundancy. Where does the cut off for low/high restriction start? Not sure.
> 
> Typically what classifies your loop as high restriction is the number of blocks and radiators. If you have 4-5 blocks and 4 radiators, it's likely a high restriction loop. There are also specific blocks or radiators with significantly higher restriction than similar offerings. If you have multiple of these relatively high restriction parts, you likely have a high restriction loop. Adding a bunch of 90 deg fittings will add to the restriction but likely not as much as two high restriction blocks/rads.
> 
> I'm no expert so take what I say with some salt.


My mobo wont let me run it lower than 20 percent. But thats where Im at as far as RPMs. The only reason why I am trying to get it lower is strictly for testing purposes. Originally I was running the pump too fast and it seemed that it was pushing the coolant through radiators faster than they could take advantage of total heat dissipation. So when I slowed it down my temps went down. I was also able to slow the fans down to 40-50% rather than having to run them at 70% or higher. So thats all good. Im getting this loop fine-tuned...just in time to break it down and and redo half of it this week when I add my second gpu.

I did try to use mostly 45 degree bends and 45 degree fittings this time around. It seems to make a lot of difference as far as ease of flow. Matter of faact, when I redo some of the bends next week I think I am going to try to incorporate some 30 degree bends and 30 degree fittings.

Martins liquidlabs showed how the angled fittings on pumps reduced flow. tsm106 sent me the link last week. Check it out

https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2013/01/05/elbow-impacts-on-pump-performance/

Of course, I realize that it is specific for the pump but at least it gives us a ballpark idea of how much angled fittings can impact flow

Just curious, since you have a second pump as a fail safe, how many components are you cooling? You mentioned that you were mining so Im imagining that you have a min of 2 gpus but upwards of 4. Side note: Ive never mined on Windows before and apparently Im as terrible at setting up a Windows mining set up as I am with everything else on Windows. I just cant get sgminer running. Well, technically it runs but I have two major problems. First, it wont show the console correctly after start up and then I produce 80-90% invalid shares. I dont know why I bother. I should just put together another miner on Linux like I have in the past.


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMatthewStewart*
> 
> My mobo wont let me run it lower than 20 percent. But thats where Im at as far as RPMs. The only reason why I am trying to get it lower is strictly for testing purposes. Originally I was running the pump too fast and it seemed that it was pushing the coolant through radiators faster than they could take advantage of total heat dissipation. So when I slowed it down my temps went down. I was also able to slow the fans down to 40-50% rather than having to run them at 70% or higher. So thats all good. Im getting this loop fine-tuned...just in time to break it down and and redo half of it this week when I add my second gpu.
> 
> I did try to use mostly 45 degree bends and 45 degree fittings this time around. It seems to make a lot of difference as far as ease of flow. Matter of faact, when I redo some of the bends next week I think I am going to try to incorporate some 30 degree bends and 30 degree fittings.
> 
> Martins liquidlabs showed how the angled fittings on pumps reduced flow. tsm106 sent me the link last week. Check it out
> 
> https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2013/01/05/elbow-impacts-on-pump-performance/
> 
> Of course, I realize that it is specific for the pump but at least it gives us a ballpark idea of how much angled fittings can impact flow
> 
> Just curious, since you have a second pump as a fail safe, how many components are you cooling? You mentioned that you were mining so Im imagining that you have a min of 2 gpus but upwards of 4. Side note: Ive never mined on Windows before and apparently Im as terrible at setting up a Windows mining set up as I am with everything else on Windows. I just cant get sgminer running. Well, technically it runs but I have two major problems. First, it wont show the console correctly after start up and then I produce 80-90% invalid shares. I dont know why I bother. I should just put together another miner on Linux like I have in the past.


You must have me confused with someone else







. I don't mine. My second pump is there because it was from my old loop so why not? Nothing wrong with a backup pump.

My loop is 3 rads, CPU, universal gpu block, and mobo VRM. Flow meter in there too.

Concerning worse temps with higher flow, that's backwards to everything I've ever read/heard. Need someone more experienced to comment on that.


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> You must have me confused with someone else
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I don't mine. My second pump is there because it was from my old loop so why not? Nothing wrong with a backup pump.
> 
> My loop is 3 rads, CPU, universal gpu block, and mobo VRM. Flow meter in there too.
> 
> Concerning worse temps with higher flow, that's backwards to everything I've ever read/heard. Need someone more experienced to comment on that.


Whoops, I misread your post. When you said "For 24/7 mine runs..." Since I was used to running my miner 24/7 I read that differently. I really jsut read it too fast.

RE: higher speeds with worse temps...think about it. In a radiator the heat dissipates by being pushed through the flow channels. Those channels dissipate the heat through the material, and the fins spread it out between air. But if the coolant moves too fast through a radiator, it comes out the other side without getting the full cooling effect.

I noticed this predominantly when I converted a Swiftech h220x AIO into cooling a cpu and mobo block and converted the tubing to acrylic. I had left my stock settings in the BIOS. Which had that pump pushing the liquid through pretty fast. It wasnt noticeable with just the cpu block. But once the other block was added, I was getting ok performance. I added another small rad and the temps stayed the same. So I slowed it down. As soon as I did, temps dropped. And same with this last loop I built. I was running the pump fairly fast. It was an auto setting in my BIOS which was probably configured for air cooling (I didnt check the actual RPMs before I tampered with it). But running Unigine Valley I was hitting 46-48C. Thats across 2x240's (1 an ST30 and the other a thick UT60) and a 120mm (UT60) for a single gpu. Seemed too high. Blasting the fans only knocked 1C off the temps. Slowed the pump down to 20% and the same run maxes out 41-43C. From 50% to the Max RPM's I can get the temps right back up to 46-48C. If you have the ability to try it out, give it a shot. Im running Gentle Typhoon's AP45's on the two 240 rads and I run them at 50%. The 120mm (UT60) has a Noiseblocker e-loop PWM (I think its a 2000rpm fan). But that is running at 60%. I dont have Push/Pull. Strictly Push.


----------



## Jakusonfire

It really doesn't work quite that way. While ever radiators are warm they are dissipating wattage as heat. Slowing flow through them allows them to be cooled more by the air flow and dissipate less wattage.
Flow rate also directly affects how well blocks cool cores



This a a quick example with the system running Haven and half way through the flow rate is increased.
The orange line is the flow rate, the green and blue are CPU and GPU temps, the other two are coolant temps at different places in the loop.
Look at what happens to the CPU and GPU when the flow is increased.
Core temps immediately drop.
The water temp in the loop can rise or fall slightly depending on where in the loop it is measured but that change does not outweigh the direct effects of flow rate.

Keeping coolant in the rad longer to cool it better is just a severe oversimplification of what is happening in the loop.


----------



## Dyson Poindexter

I would think that you actually would want the flow to go as slow as possible inside the rad. The longer the water is in there, the more time it has to reject heat.

The problem is that you need the coolant to move quickly across the block, for the same reason.

Since it's not easy to have coolant spend a long time in the radiator while still moving quickly through the block, we solve this my making the radiator bigger, to stretch out this cooling phase.


----------



## IT Diva

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMatthewStewart*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> You must have me confused with someone else
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I don't mine. My second pump is there because it was from my old loop so why not? Nothing wrong with a backup pump.
> 
> My loop is 3 rads, CPU, universal gpu block, and mobo VRM. Flow meter in there too.
> 
> Concerning worse temps with higher flow, that's backwards to everything I've ever read/heard. Need someone more experienced to comment on that.
> 
> 
> 
> Whoops, I misread your post. When you said "For 24/7 mine runs..." Since I was used to running my miner 24/7 I read that differently. I really jsut read it too fast.
> *
> RE: higher speeds with worse temps...think about it. In a radiator the heat dissipates by being pushed through the flow channels. Those channels dissipate the heat through the material, and the fins spread it out between air. But if the coolant moves too fast through a radiator, it comes out the other side without getting the full cooling effect.
> *
> I noticed this predominantly when I converted a Swiftech h220x AIO into cooling a cpu and mobo block and converted the tubing to acrylic. I had left my stock settings in the BIOS. Which had that pump pushing the liquid through pretty fast. It wasnt noticeable with just the cpu block. But once the other block was added, I was getting ok performance. I added another small rad and the temps stayed the same. So I slowed it down. As soon as I did, temps dropped. And same with this last loop I built. I was running the pump fairly fast. It was an auto setting in my BIOS which was probably configured for air cooling (I didnt check the actual RPMs before I tampered with it). But running Unigine Valley I was hitting 46-48C. Thats across 2x240's (1 an ST30 and the other a thick UT60) and a 120mm (UT60) for a single gpu. Seemed too high. Blasting the fans only knocked 1C off the temps. Slowed the pump down to 20% and the same run maxes out 41-43C. From 50% to the Max RPM's I can get the temps right back up to 46-48C. If you have the ability to try it out, give it a shot. Im running Gentle Typhoon's AP45's on the two 240 rads and I run them at 50%. The 120mm (UT60) has a Noiseblocker e-loop PWM (I think its a 2000rpm fan). But that is running at 60%. I dont have Push/Pull. Strictly Push.
Click to expand...

You're only looking at part of the picture there . . . .

If you double the flow rate, you do halve the time any given molecule is in the rad,

BUT, . . . what you didn't account for is that it also now goes thru the rad twice as often as it did before. . . . so no real net difference.

The other part of the picture, while it may be a smaller part, is that as you say, the coolant gives off heat to the tubes and fins, and for this to happen, the fins have to be transferring that heat to the air moving thru them.

The higher the fin temp is relative to the air temp, the more efficient this transfer is.

As the rad thickness/fin density increases and the airflow decreases, there is less btu/hr transfer taking place.

This is exactly why fan speed, (airflow) is much more the controlling variable, and we control fan speed to maintain temp rather than coolant flow rate.

There's always a balancing process taking place in an active loop, driven by coolant flow rate, airflow, and heatload, that determines the coolant temp at equilibrium.

If you had decent airflow, and got better temps when you slowed down the flow, there's something else involved that caused it. . . . . not the lower coolant flow rate

Flow rates that we see in pc liquid cooling just don't raise temps at the high end of the range as long as there's airflow thru the rad.

Darlene


----------



## IT Diva

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyson Poindexter*
> 
> I would think that you actually *would want the flow to go as slow as possible inside the rad. The longer the water is in there, the more time it has to reject heat.
> *
> _The problem is that you need the coolant to move quickly across the block, for the same reason._
> 
> This just doesn't make sense by your own logic . . . . by your reasoning: . . the longer the water was in the block, the more heat it should pick up
> 
> Since it's not easy to have coolant spend a long time in the radiator while still moving quickly through the block, we solve this my making the radiator bigger, to stretch out this cooling phase.


That's not true . .

There's a flow rate for each rad, above which the flow becomes turbulent, and below which the flow is laminar . . . .

Laminar flow transfers much Less heat than turbulent flow does, so you need at least a minimum flow rate to insure turbulent flow within the rad tubes.

Flattened tubes, like you see in most rads, help to insure turbulent flow at much lower flow rates than if they were round.

Once you have sufficient coolant flow rate thru a rad to insure turbulent flow, . . . the airflow across the fins becomes the controlling variable in its ability to dissipate heat for any given size of rad.

Darlene


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IT Diva*
> 
> You're only looking at part of the picture there . . . .
> 
> If you double the flow rate, you do halve the time any given molecule is in the rad,
> 
> BUT, . . . what you didn't account for is that it also now goes thru the rad twice as often as it did before. . . . so no real net difference.
> 
> The other part of the picture, while it may be a smaller part, is that as you say, the coolant gives off heat to the tubes and fins, and for this to happen, the fins have to be transferring that heat to the air moving thru them.
> 
> The higher the fin temp is relative to the air temp, the more efficient this transfer is.
> 
> As the rad thickness/fin density increases and the airflow decreases, there is less btu/hr transfer taking place.
> 
> This is exactly why fan speed, (airflow) is much more the controlling variable, and we control fan speed to maintain temp rather than coolant flow rate.
> 
> There's always a balancing process taking place in an active loop, driven by coolant flow rate, airflow, and heatload, that determines the coolant temp at equilibrium.
> 
> If you had decent airflow, and got better temps when you slowed down the flow, there's something else involved that caused it. . . . . not the lower coolant flow rate
> 
> Flow rates that we see in pc liquid cooling just don't raise temps at the high end of the range as long as there's airflow thru the rad.
> 
> Darlene


Youre right, I didnt think of most of what you posted there. And I wasnt really going to get too technical here since its a thread about a review of a certain model pump.

Now, Ive been able to duplicate the process more than once on more than one loop while eliminating (or controlling) ever variable I can think of.

What I dont understand is that if I double my flow rate, the amount of time the fluid spends in a radiator is about half the previous value. Are you saying that the heat dissipation that takes place from the coolant, while inside the radiator, is the same no matter how much time is spent in the radiator? The heat transfer is instantaneous?

Another thing I dont understand [a tad bit rhetorical] is why would radiator manufacturers purposely make restrictive flat tubing/piping throughout the radiator to keep the lowest possible flow turbulent? My understanding is that that is done for two reasons. The first is to keep the coolant as long as possible in the radiator for maximum cooling. And the second reason is to help regulate system pressure (this is heavily dependent on the application though). Why not just make a larger (diameter), round, straight tube with good fin density and just keep pushing the coolant through as fast as possible?

My only understanding of cooling components via liquid is pretty far outside of the realm of computers. So Im not trying to be flippant. Im really trying to figure this out. Without writing out equations (because this is wrong thread for it) I do know that a car water pump is belt driven. So the higher the rpms, the faster the pump goes, kinda. Because, there is also a drive pulley which reduces the speed of the pump. The reason is not because the system cant take it. Its because its not efficient at the highest possible speed. Why not? Our CPU is our engine. Yet I can find a steady flow rate taht cools optimally even when the cpu is idle or going full blast. Our BIOS has settings that act like the drive pulley on the car...or at least obtain the same results.

And of course flow rate can become very complicated if you want it to get complicated. But in order to eliminate variables in this regard there are a few things that we needs to know:

1) Heat capacity of coolant

2) Heat Dissipation of the coolant (alone, standing still) This can be done anyway you like. Most engineers measure something like that in KW per hour, if I remember correctly)

So, the heat dissipation of the coolant x 60 (60 minutes in an hour)
Then the maximum heat capacity of a coolant is multiplied by the temperature difference (operating temps)
Now, dividing the two should get us closer to the coolant flow rate

But to get into the optimal pump speed it gets a little heavier (and my memory gets spottier so I may get something wrong here):

1) Pump RPM is multiplied by the product of the square root of the flow rate
2) That figure is then divided by 75% head rise
3) The resulting product is the specific pump speed needed for optimal cooling

Since we end with an optimal pump speed we can take the exact same process, work it backwards, by inputting different pump speeds, and see how it affects our system. Or, at least, we should be able to if everything is correct. The math for this come from empirical equations that are text book.

And again, Im not trying to be flip but rather Im trying to pick your brain a little to see if Im forgetting variables. You obviously know a lot about this. And I cant help but overthink this...Of course, Im also going to try to build more than one loop just to duplicate it. Or to prove myself wrong, or to find any variables that I didnt consider.


----------



## IT Diva

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMatthewStewart*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *IT Diva*
> 
> You're only looking at part of the picture there . . . .
> 
> If you double the flow rate, you do halve the time any given molecule is in the rad,
> 
> BUT, . . . what you didn't account for is that it also now goes thru the rad twice as often as it did before. . . . so no real net difference.
> 
> The other part of the picture, while it may be a smaller part, is that as you say, the coolant gives off heat to the tubes and fins, and for this to happen, the fins have to be transferring that heat to the air moving thru them.
> 
> The higher the fin temp is relative to the air temp, the more efficient this transfer is.
> 
> As the rad thickness/fin density increases and the airflow decreases, there is less btu/hr transfer taking place.
> 
> This is exactly why fan speed, (airflow) is much more the controlling variable, and we control fan speed to maintain temp rather than coolant flow rate.
> 
> There's always a balancing process taking place in an active loop, driven by coolant flow rate, airflow, and heatload, that determines the coolant temp at equilibrium.
> 
> If you had decent airflow, and got better temps when you slowed down the flow, there's something else involved that caused it. . . . . not the lower coolant flow rate
> 
> Flow rates that we see in pc liquid cooling just don't raise temps at the high end of the range as long as there's airflow thru the rad.
> 
> Darlene
> 
> 
> 
> Youre right, I didnt think of most of what you posted there. And I wasnt really going to get too technical here since its a thread about a review of a certain model pump.
> 
> Now, Ive been able to duplicate the process more than once on more than one loop while eliminating (or controlling) ever variable I can think of.
> 
> *What I dont understand is that if I double my flow rate, the amount of time the fluid spends in a radiator is about half the previous value. Are you saying that the heat dissipation that takes place from the coolant, while inside the radiator, is the same no matter how much time is spent in the radiator? The heat transfer is instantaneous?
> 
> In real simple terms, if your loop holds 2 liters of coolant, and the rad alone holds 1 liter, then no matter what the flow rate is, any given measure of coolant spends 50% of its time in the rad. The higher the coolant temp relative to the tube metal temp, the more efficient the heat transfer is, the same property holds true in the blocks . . . . the higher the block metal is above the coolant temp, the more efficient the heat transfer there.
> 
> *Another thing I dont understand [a tad bit rhetorical] is *why would radiator manufacturers purposely make restrictive flat tubing/piping throughout the radiator to keep the lowest possible flow turbulent?*
> 
> So the rads work efficiently at flow rates found in a lot of liquid cooled setups where flow rates are often as low as .5 GPM or only slightly higher.
> 
> My understanding is that that is done for two reasons. *The first is to keep the coolant as long as possible in the radiator for maximum cooling.*
> 
> I already established that the coolant spends an amount of time in the rad proportional to the amount of coolant volume of the rad compared to the total volume of the loop.
> 
> *And the second reason is to help regulate system pressure*
> 
> Not even close , , , , , impingement blocks are so much more restrictive than rads, that it's a total non sequitor.
> 
> (this is heavily dependent on the application though). Why not just make a larger (diameter), round, straight tube with good fin density and just keep pushing the coolant through as fast as possible?
> 
> My only understanding of cooling components via liquid is pretty far outside of the realm of computers. So Im not trying to be flippant. Im really trying to figure this out. Without writing out equations (because this is wrong thread for it) I do know that a car water pump is belt driven. So the higher the rpms, the faster the pump goes, kinda. Because, there is also a drive pulley which reduces the speed of the pump. The reason is not because the system cant take it. Its because its not efficient at the highest possible speed. Why not? Our CPU is our engine. Yet I can find a steady flow rate taht cools optimally even when the cpu is idle or going full blast. Our BIOS has settings that act like the drive pulley on the car...or at least obtain the same results.
> 
> And of course flow rate can become very complicated if you want it to get complicated. But in order to eliminate variables in this regard there are a few things that we needs to know:
> 
> 1) Heat capacity of coolant
> 
> 2) Heat Dissipation of the coolant (alone, standing still) This can be done anyway you like. Most engineers measure something like that in KW per hour, if I remember correctly)
> 
> So, the heat dissipation of the coolant x 60 (60 minutes in an hour)
> Then the maximum heat capacity of a coolant is multiplied by the temperature difference (operating temps)
> Now, dividing the two should get us closer to the coolant flow rate
> 
> But to get into the optimal pump speed it gets a little heavier (and my memory gets spottier so I may get something wrong here):
> 
> 1) Pump RPM is multiplied by the product of the square root of the flow rate
> 2) That figure is then divided by 75% head rise
> 3) The resulting product is the specific pump speed needed for optimal cooling
> 
> Since we end with an optimal pump speed we can take the exact same process, work it backwards, by inputting different pump speeds, and see how it affects our system. Or, at least, we should be able to if everything is correct. The math for this come from empirical equations that are text book.
> 
> And again, Im not trying to be flip but rather Im trying to pick your brain a little to see if Im forgetting variables. You obviously know a lot about this. And I cant help but overthink this...Of course, Im also going to try to build more than one loop just to duplicate it. Or to prove myself wrong, or to find any variables that I didnt consider.
Click to expand...


----------



## svictorcc

@geggeg
Congratulations for the review man, awesome!
I have a question: For the high restriction loop, did you used only 1 single mcp50x, or both mcp50x in line?


----------



## VSG

Wow looks like I missed a good conversation in here. Not sure why I was unsubbed to the thread.

@svictorcc: I used a single MCP50X as well as both in-lin as seen in the plots. Hopefully that answers your question


----------



## Faster_is_better

Finally my MCP50x that I bought about 9 months ago took its maiden voyage yesterday. It certainly is loud at 100%, really hoping your conclusions come through here and it quiets down at lower speeds









Great review, VSG thanks.

I think this review was one of my deciding factors to get this pump actually.


----------



## VSG

Glad it helped


----------



## Faster_is_better

How were you measuring temps, externally from the housing?


----------



## VSG

Yup, I measured the bottom of the housing. This does mean that insulating housing may be hiding hot pump bodies though.


----------



## Faster_is_better

Looks like mine is running about 14 C above ambient (20-21C). Running 100% speed for about 4 hours now, medium restriction loop I would say.

It's a bit higher than your tests but I'm measuring from the side of the housing with a Infrared thermometer. Still well within spec of 60C max so I guess it's fine. Got a lot quieter now that I decoupled it better


----------



## Buska103

What would you guys presume to be an optimal MCP50X pump speed for a cpu+universal gpu+360mm+240mm loop?
I've been keeping it 1.25x my cpu temperature (30c idle, 60c load), so basically 40% to 75%. Is this too much?


----------



## Faster_is_better

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buska103*
> 
> What would you guys presume to be an optimal MCP50X pump speed for a cpu+universal gpu+360mm+240mm loop?
> I've been keeping it 1.25x my cpu temperature (30c idle, 60c load), so basically 40% to 75%. Is this too much?


You can run it any speed you like, lower RPM will just be quieter and somewhat less as effective for cooling. Just depends on what you are after, silence or performance. Your speeds sound fine to me though, I haven't put mine through any tests yet but I would think 75% tops would be plenty fast for your loop.


----------



## neo565

Is this a DDC based pump? Because the impeller and top sure do remind me of a Topsflow TDC. The water cooled servers at my dad's workplace use them. They can produce pretty impressive amounts of pressure and flow, but are quite loud.


----------



## pc-illiterate

its supposedly a completely designed by swiftech pump. ddc style but thats about it.


----------



## neo565

I wouldn't be surprised if the impeller design was based on a TDC.


----------



## VSG

It's similar to the Asetek pumps, but a much bigger version.


----------



## springs113

I run my pump between 1100 and 1300rpms, extremely quiet. Running 2 290x, Intel 5930k my cpu temp never gets over 65 running valley benchmark for 8 hours, my gpu temps don't pass 60 degrees.


----------



## FastEddieNYC

I run my 220X and MCP50X pump at 1800 rpm. I have found that running just one supplies good flow for my loop but I have to run it 2800~3000 rpm. With two pumps I can run quiet and have redundancy. The loop has a cpu, 2 gpu's blocks and 3 rads.


----------



## M3TAl

Run mine (externally outside the case) at 2500RPM and a jingway dp-600 at full 12V. Can't really hear the mcp50x at that speed but rest of the system noise is probably drowning it out. It's definitely quiet at that speed though. Great pump IMO.


----------



## VSG

Yeah, you have to slow it down a bit for sure but it is a quiet pump thereafter.


----------



## Faster_is_better

Yep after the air bubbles were gone it toned down very well. Also it helped after I decoupled it better, since there was a lot of vibration which made it noisy on the first go.


----------



## corrosion666

Hello all,

I am considering using this pump for a setup with a GTX 970 gpu, an overclocked I5 4690K CPU and 2x 240mm rads. I will use a rather small reservoir due to space restrictions. I have some specific questions regarding the pump :

Firstly :
- Do you guys think i can run this pump fairly quiet with these items installed in the loop? I am looking for silent operation and healthy temperatures. Not going for ultra cool here.

Secondly : I am using a carbide air 240 case which is modified in the cube configuration, meaning the side panel is actually the bottom panel now. For easy maintenance i have to able to remove this panel to access the bottom compartment, and i therefor cant mount this pump against this bottom panel of the case. I was concidering filling and bleeding the system with the pump on the bottom of the case, and once its running smooth i would have to mount it sideways against the inner structure of the case for a permanent fix. This means the inlet is facing to the right hand side, but its placed directly below the reservoir.

- Is this possible or will this damage the pump?
- Is the adhesive strip mounting mechanism that comes with the pump strong enough to hold the pump in place when mounted sideways?
- I have seen in the manual that the pump can also be screwed down if i drill the correct mounting holes in the case? Or is this incorrect? The adhesive strip would work as a temporary solution but it would be messy to keep removing it for every loop maintenance. Screws sound a lot easier.

Thanks in advance !

Greets


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Ive had this pump for a while. I bought it because of this review. Its still running awesome. But Ive expanded my system a little and Im wondering if I need a second pump. It doesnt seem to need a second pump at this point. This little guy has been trucking along at about 40% power just fine. But I have a 480 rad (45mm), a 240 (60mm) rad, two gpu blocks with a serial terminal connector, a bay res, and a cpu block. Am I still good with this single pump?


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jakusonfire*
> 
> It really doesn't work quite that way. While ever radiators are warm they are dissipating wattage as heat. Slowing flow through them allows them to be cooled more by the air flow and dissipate less wattage.
> Flow rate also directly affects how well blocks cool cores
> 
> 
> 
> This a a quick example with the system running Haven and half way through the flow rate is increased.
> The orange line is the flow rate, the green and blue are CPU and GPU temps, the other two are coolant temps at different places in the loop.
> Look at what happens to the CPU and GPU when the flow is increased.
> Core temps immediately drop.
> The water temp in the loop can rise or fall slightly depending on where in the loop it is measured but that change does not outweigh the direct effects of flow rate.
> 
> Keeping coolant in the rad longer to cool it better is just a severe oversimplification of what is happening in the loop.


Just wanted to let you know that I finally was able to test this and youre totally right. There still is a sweet spot where flow rate gets the best possible temps. But I did the same thing. I halved the flow rate during a stress test and saw negative results. So my oversimplification (which was an accurate term you used) only worked for me because I was seeing a happy-medium of performance at my current lower speed. I wont bore everyone with the details but I could run it all day at 40% and be fine...even get good temps under load. But with the Aquaero and temp sensors on the coolant, and setting it to turn the pump up to 50 and then to 55% when coolant temp goes up, give me overall lower temps under stress AND they drop faster when the stress/load ends and the pump is still going a little faster.

Wanted to update this for everyone (including you) and let you know what happened.


----------



## VSG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMatthewStewart*
> 
> Ive had this pump for a while. I bought it because of this review. Its still running awesome. But Ive expanded my system a little and Im wondering if I need a second pump. It doesnt seem to need a second pump at this point. This little guy has been trucking along at about 40% power just fine. But I have a 480 rad (45mm), a 240 (60mm) rad, two gpu blocks with a serial terminal connector, a bay res, and a cpu block. Am I still good with this single pump?


Hard to say that without specifics and what's good for you. You could always increase the flow rate if you don't mind the added noise.


----------



## DMatthewStewart

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> Hard to say that without specifics and what's good for you. You could always increase the flow rate if you don't mind the added noise.


True (re: specifics). I still have a lot of room on the rpm/speed scale left so if I need more flow, like you said, I can turn it up for now. This pump barely makes any noise anyway. And with that pad that it comes with it makes even less noise.


----------



## VSG

It's definitely a dark horse pump still. I saw some reports on the wiring not working after 10 months or so but it's been fine here, and hopefully there's more top options (plexi) coming for this.


----------



## jodybdesigns

Mine is still going after 1 year. I'm adding 2 120mm reads and 2 gpu blocks. I'm sick of all this fan noise lol


----------



## pc-illiterate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jodybdesigns*
> 
> Mine is still going after 1 year. I'm adding 2 120mm reads and 2 gpu blocks. I'm sick of all this fan noise lol


you need high rpm fans for that gtx rad. it has 30fpi. you wont gain cooling with lower noise until you replace it.


----------



## jodybdesigns

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pc-illiterate*
> 
> you need high rpm fans for that gtx rad. it has 30fpi. you wont gain cooling with lower noise until you replace it.


I'm limited to space up there. 8 pin on the board is in the way. Low profile was the only thing to fit inside or outside of the frame.


----------



## WhiteWulfe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> It's definitely a dark horse pump still. I saw some reports on the wiring not working after 10 months or so but it's been fine here, and hopefully there's more top options (plexi) coming for this.


I'm still surprised they never came out with a dual top despite all the requests for it.


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WhiteWulfe*
> 
> I'm still surprised they never came out with a dual top despite all the requests for it.


Same here.

I picked up a second one of these pumps for my new desk case (dk-q2), mostly for redundancy but also higher flow at low RPM.

Only problem is last night during leak testing a massive leak sprung in the vicinity of the CPU block. I can't tell where the leak is coming from though







. Totally soaked the motherboard too.


----------



## IT Diva

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WhiteWulfe*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *geggeg*
> 
> It's definitely a dark horse pump still. I saw some reports on the wiring not working after 10 months or so but it's been fine here, and hopefully there's more top options (plexi) coming for this.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still surprised they never came out with a dual top despite all the requests for it.
Click to expand...

Maybe because it was intended as a budget offering for more entry level builds . . . . .

Maybe because its potted construction precludes being able to have dress-up kits that make it worthy looking at . . . . .

Maybe because it never reached the sales volume of D5's and DDCs, even though they are more expensive . . . .

Pretty much, it was destined to be an orphan since the day it was released

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *WhiteWulfe*
> 
> I'm still surprised they never came out with a dual top despite all the requests for it.
> 
> 
> 
> Same here.
> 
> I picked up a second one of these pumps for my new desk case (dk-q2), mostly for redundancy but also higher flow at low RPM.
> 
> Only problem is last night during leak testing a massive leak sprung in the vicinity of the CPU block. I can't tell where the leak is coming from though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Totally soaked the motherboard too.
Click to expand...

Sorry for your catastrophe, but . . . .

Once again, the virtue of air leak testing at known pressure levels becomes obvious . . . . .

I've had 2 instances now, where using air showed that just a few thousandths of an inch in tubing diameter, (0.498" vs 0.506") made the difference between having a connection separate at 10 psi as you watched the tube slowly pull out of the fitting, and hold tight over night at slightly greater pressure.

Hopefully, your mobo isn't damaged.

Darlene


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IT Diva*
> 
> Maybe because it was intended as a budget offering for more entry level builds . . . . .
> 
> Maybe because its potted construction precludes being able to have dress-up kits that make it worthy looking at . . . . .
> 
> Maybe because it never reached the sales volume of D5's and DDCs, even though they are more expensive . . . .
> 
> Pretty much, it was destined to be an orphan since the day it was released
> Sorry for your catastrophe, but . . . .
> 
> Once again, the virtue of air leak testing at known pressure levels becomes obvious . . . . .
> 
> I've had 2 instances now, where using air showed that just a few thousandths of an inch in tubing diameter, (0.498" vs 0.506") made the difference between having a connection separate at 10 psi as you watched the tube slowly pull out of the fitting, and hold tight over night at slightly greater pressure.
> 
> Hopefully, your mobo isn't damaged.
> 
> Darlene


If I had the tools to do such a thing... life would be easier.

Found the source of the leak. This mobo has built-in VRM air/waterblock with non-removable 3/8" barbs which are a major PITA to work with. CPU block outlet to VRM is the problem. The bend there might be too extreme to accomplish a proper seal at the 3/8" barb







.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## jodybdesigns

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pc-illiterate*
> 
> you need high rpm fans for that gtx rad. it has 30fpi. you wont gain cooling with lower noise until you replace it.


Hey man good shot on that. I took a second look at my Corsair SP120's and my entire cooling setup. I swapped out the SP120's with my fans from my Corsair H100 (CW-8960007). After the research and all the confusion last year when ordering (I was new), and the little things I learn here and there, needless to say, this made a huge difference. Idle temp went to 33C > 29C, load temp 58C > 51C.

So for now, I put my Corsairs away until I get my 2 120MM rads. +Rep


----------



## Jakusonfire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMatthewStewart*
> 
> Just wanted to let you know that I finally was able to test this and youre totally right. There still is a sweet spot where flow rate gets the best possible temps. But I did the same thing. I halved the flow rate during a stress test and saw negative results. So my oversimplification (which was an accurate term you used) only worked for me because I was seeing a happy-medium of performance at my current lower speed. I wont bore everyone with the details but I could run it all day at 40% and be fine...even get good temps under load. But with the Aquaero and temp sensors on the coolant, and setting it to turn the pump up to 50 and then to 55% when coolant temp goes up, give me overall lower temps under stress AND they drop faster when the stress/load ends and the pump is still going a little faster.
> 
> Wanted to update this for everyone (including you) and let you know what happened.


That's great. Well done for reporting back and most importantly doing the test yourself.

Its amazing how much extra insight even a relatively simple device like the Aquaero can give us into the true way loops work.


----------



## pc-illiterate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WhiteWulfe*
> 
> I'm still surprised they never came out with a dual top despite all the requests for it.


they dont want anyone taking the pump apart because it isnt as dummy-proof as a regular ddc
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> Only problem is last night during leak testing a massive leak sprung in the vicinity of the CPU block. I can't tell where the leak is coming from though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Totally soaked the motherboard too.


why are you not air testing for leaks? you wouldnt have the problem you have now.

*EDIT* 5.5. hour ninja because i forgot to refresh the page and didnt know there were new posts


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pc-illiterate*
> 
> they dont want anyone taking the pump apart because it isnt as dummy-proof as a regular ddc
> why are you not air testing for leaks? you wouldnt have the problem you have now.
> 
> *EDIT* 5.5. hour ninja because i forgot to refresh the page and didnt know there were new posts


Because I don't have the tools necessary for such a thing. Anyways leak is fixed. Those Phobya allen key hose clamps are worthless. ZIp ties may look like crud but I've never cared about looks too much, hell half my loop is used parts from the bargain bin.

Interesting that the new MCP50X is quite a bit quiter than my original one at max RPM during air bleeding. The tone/whine of it is much more pleasant and seems less intense.


----------



## pc-illiterate

those hose clamps work perfectly fine. you failed somewhere in their use.

tldr: user error


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pc-illiterate*
> 
> those hose clamps work perfectly fine. you failed somewhere in their use.
> 
> tldr: user error


Nope, they don't work fine. There is no where near enough clamping force. I can slide the clamps around with my finger or gently pull the tubing directly from the barb.


----------



## pc-illiterate

what size tubing? what size clamps? ive used them. they work without issues.


----------



## WhiteWulfe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IT Diva*
> 
> Maybe because it was intended as a budget offering for more entry level builds . . . . .
> 
> Maybe because its potted construction precludes being able to have dress-up kits that make it worthy looking at . . . . .
> 
> Maybe because it never reached the sales volume of D5's and DDCs, even though they are more expensive . . . .


Those reasons do make sense, and yeah, if it did look nicer it would have made it a lot more appealing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pc-illiterate*
> 
> they dont want anyone taking the pump apart because it isnt as dummy-proof as a regular ddc
> why are you not air testing for leaks? you wouldnt have the problem you have now.


I was referring to the pre-assembled units, like what they did with the DDCs before, so my point is still just as valid.


----------



## pc-illiterate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WhiteWulfe*
> 
> Those reasons do make sense, and yeah, if it did look nicer it would have made it a lot more appealing.
> I was referring to the pre-assembled units, like what they did with the DDCs before, so my point is still just as valid.


if it matters, my guess would be because they didnt know how well it would sell and it flowed pretty well as is. also, entry level.


----------



## Kurzed

Does anyone know if there are any particular steps to "priming" this pump? My 35x died and I'm having trouble getting the air out my loop with the 50x. Its definetly running (I can hear and feel it) the temps are fine 25-30 degrees at idle but its still loud even at 2000 rpm (guessing from the air in the system) and my reservoir level has barely moved despite draining the entire loop. I've already tried rocking my case and running the pump at 100% without much success.


----------



## jodybdesigns

100% will gurgle at first. Just shake the case and tap on the pump. Set it to about 40-50% speed. It took mine a few hours to go completely silent. It may be my case or the orientation of my pump, but my pump is inaudible under 60%. You can hear it him if you go near 3800rpm
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kurzed*
> 
> Does anyone know if there are any particular steps to "priming" this pump? My 35x died and I'm having trouble getting the air out my loop with the 50x. Its definetly running (I can hear and feel it) the temps are fine 25-30 degrees at idle but its still loud even at 2000 rpm (guessing from the air in the system) and my reservoir level has barely moved despite draining the entire loop. I've already tried rocking my case and running the pump at 100% without much success.


Flick the top of the pump. Tap on your tubes too.


----------



## japanesegorilla

Thanks for the review (I realize that I am a couple years late but I just found out about this pump recently). I just ordered one to serve as a backup to my 35x (it died once already but was still within the 2 year warranty, but is now well outside of the warranty period). I would really hate to have to wait for a new pump in case my 35x dies so I just picked up the 50x to have on hand. For $55 (after 10% off promo code) with prime 2 day shipping it was hard to pass up. I had one of those crappy bmaverick pumps on hand for that purpose but that thing is so damn loud (so loud that I opted to spend $90 on a 35x and then later another $55 for a backup to never have to hear it again).


----------



## Hello Man

Anyone have an idea if pump tops for the MCP35X would work on the 50X? I found a video which seems to hint this, but I have no proof. My interest is to swap out the MCP35X on my MCR Drive Rev3 integrated pump/rad/reservoir combo. I like it, but its a tad too loud for sure.


----------



## VSG

Afraid not, you are stuck with the stock top.


----------



## Hello Man

Darn :/ Oh well, could be worse. I just got an 800D from a guy on craigslist for only $100 and I'm so hyped.


----------



## Surax

Hello there, I was reading this amazing a review and you convinced me this pump is amazing compared to others. But... I have a question. First to say: I'm a totally n00b and I've never built a custom loop. I'm gathering infos in order to build my first one. I spent hours in trying to understand a thing: are Swiftech pumps using the same regular D5/DDC form factor? Because I want to mount this pump on a Distro Plate for my Phanteks Evolv X (distro plate which needs DDC pumps). Do you think I can have any fitting problem? For the warranty, I really don't care if I can use it on my build (maybe I can test if it works before opening it, on a mini closed loop).


----------

