# Perfect RAM Timing Rule (Posting Resuts Of Using The Rule Is Appreciated)



## Iwamotto Tetsuz

I was uploaded it years ago 12-18-13

*Orignally From another overclocking website*
Conversation can be *OFFENSIVE*
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/741122-Perfect-Ram-Timing-Rule

Posting negative results are also appreciated, as it will tell us that the rule is Wrong

*I recomend using this rule when you are overclocking so hard that all of your timings needs to be changed to increace overcloking freedom*









Rule applies to any DDR RAM (DDR1,2,3,4)

Spoiler is to keep record of the old version posted. Ignore it cause it is wrong.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



You can also try with stock ram frequency and keep the CL same but use the rule

*My oppinion*
Stock clocks and stock CL but using the rule will allow the RAM to operate with less error and run more smooth
Giving increace in performance (ignoring that it can be slower in bench marks)

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/741122-Perfect-Ram-Timing-Rule

Keep in mind lower numbers means higher ram performance

CL depends on your ram performance

You can single clock down CL for quick RAM tune up
leaving everything else stock

1T will give higher performance
2T will give higher RAM frequency
3T will give higher RAM frequency

Find the balance between 1T or 2T memory clock capability giving you best performance









1. TRAS=TCL+TRCD+TRP

2.TRC=TRAS+TRCD *Or* Tras+TRP *Or* Tras +CL

3.TWR=TRTP+TCL *Or* TRTP+TRCD

4.TFAW=TRRD+TWTR+TCWL+TRTP+TWR (TWR which stays the same with the twr rule TRTP+TRCD)

5.Ratio Rule for TCL-TRCD-TRP is 9-10-8 (Cl Lowest-TRCD Highest-TRP Middle)

6.Ratio Rule for TFAW (Back Timings) TRRD+TWTR+TCWL+TRTP (TRRD lowest, TWTR mid low, TCWL mid high TRTP highest)
Which TRRD is simular to CL which decides the RAM operating speed

7.Decreacing TRC and TRAS by -1 to -20 can increase ram write performance
Depending on how much it can take







Normally manufacture uses -3 TRC and TRAS

8.Higher TRCD and higher TRP should give higher frequency also trc and tras needs to be changed

(TFAW timing rule hasn't been tested in overclocking yet, this is only an test theory which I will use in overclocking my RAM on the fxa990 gd80 msi
I also need to check by looking at the ram timing setting avalible in my FXA990 GD80 MSI before I can be fully sure that it is right for the back timings
Also I need to upload a ram timing table screen shot of my MSI BIOS later on)

*Recomended Rule to use*
TRAS=CL+TRCD+TRP

TRC=TRAS+TRP

TWR=TRTP+TRCD

TFAW=TRRD+TWTR+TCWL+TRTP+TWR

Depending on RAM module it will only operate on certain Row Refresh Cycle frequencys, there are 2 or 4 ramtimings for this,80ns, 160NS or 300NS or 350NS (DDR3 RAM)
Example 1600 RAM runs on 160NS, 2400RAM will not run below 300NS even at 1600 speeds
You will want to try out 300NS or higher when your overclocking FSB allot. As you may be able to break your FSB barrarier by setting this higher.

For 1T2T timings, you will need to set it at 2T for high FSBS, unless it operates with the FSB clocked.
Again setting 2T or 3T or higher can break your max FSB barrier

Using CL ratio rule and back timing ratio rule
Higher TRCD and higher TRP should give higher frequency also trc and tras needs to be changed

For back timing Twr and TRRD is bascally simular thing to CL and you need to read before you write
Meaning that trrd must run faster than twr


RAM speed can be modeled by CL divided by MHZ, lower numbers result in faster RAM
10/2400=0.00416
8/2133=0.00375, which means CL8 2133 is faster than Cl10 2400

For fastest ram speeds, aim for lowest CL and lowest TWTR and TRRD
Lower CL means faster RAM, lower numbers means faster timmings.

Tras= CL+TRCD+TRRD

TRP= your RAM speed Example 2400RAM will need a setting of 12 or higher
2133 will Need a setting of 11
Thus 13X2=26X100=2600, therefore to run 2600 RAM this timing must be 2600 Or higher
(note that TRCD shouldn't be smaller than TRP, it should be equal or higher)
*You should increace TRCD when small amounts of stabibility is needed, because the speeds are to fast for the ram to handle. You can also manually add 1 clock to TRAS and TRFW, therefore stabibility will increace, as there is a 1 clock or more delay for stuff to finish before going onto next step*

TRC= TRAS+ TRCD
You need to have a certian number of TRAS and TRFC to run certain frequencies, you may want to leave it as cl+2X tTRCD then try CL+TRCD+TRRD(EG the 2400 tidrent X needed 30-42 minimum to run stalbe)

*TRRD Must Be smaller than TWTR*, Typically TWTR should be 1 click higher than TRRD
TRRD= 20
TWTR=21
(These are bascally read write time CL Depping on how much your RAM can take, the lower you can set it the faster it is)

TWR =*Manually specify for performance*, Typically 2clocks higher than TRRD should be the fastest setting. Depends on how fast your ram can run.
Typically the minimum TRTP setting on a DDR3 RAM is 5 clocks, unless you BIOS mod you cannot go lower. As the name implies Time Read To Precharge and Time Wrte to Load, *it is the diffrence in your TRRD and TWTR timming compared with TWR* For DDR3 a typical TWR setting is TRRD+TWTR=TWR

TWL= TWR minus Twtr
TRTP= TWR minus TRRD
TFAW=TWR+TRRD

Typically, If your CL can be set at CL7, your TRRD should be able to run at 5 or lower.
It is best to have TWTR one click lower than CL ( TWTR at 6).
TRRD+TWTR can be even lower when you want a higher OC. *But it shouldn't get you far, as your CL timing will be bottle necking your very fast TRRD and TWTR, in terms of stabibility and performance, CL at 20 means your TRRD should be at 18 and TWTR should be at 19*

Command Rate depends on your RAM module, Lower numbers are faster
(setting this at 2T or higher can yeild higher max FSB OC)

TRFC0,1,2,3,4 Depends on RAM module, lower numbers are faster
(setting this at 350NS or higher can yeild higher max FSB OC)

Ram can operate with approximatly a +- 3 timings from optimal timing,
But TRRD must be smaller than TWTR, no tollerance for that. You can try your self and you will find out. make TWTR lower than TRRD and you will not boot up









Refer to image, It is also a example of a perferct 2133 RAM oc setting


http://valid.x86.fr/hf3j77 Vadilation of the system with this timing (Its a Gskill 2400CL10 2X8GB water cooled)


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## PedroC1999

I like this, Bookmarked


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## bigkahuna360

You had many people tell you that your testing methodology was wrong, for good reason too, why do you think it will be any different here?


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## Alastair

This guy made a thread earlier stating that somehow he was gonna get some Chinese semiconductor cooperation to build some sort of super CPU he designed that can scale infinitely. I'm not to sure about this guy. He seems like a troll. Time will tell


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PedroC1999*
> 
> I like this, Bookmarked


Thanks for your support

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> This guy made a thread earlier stating that somehow he was gonna get some Chinese semiconductor cooperation to build some sort of super CPU he designed that can scale infinitely. I'm not to sure about this guy. He seems like a troll. Time will tell


on 12/16/14Infraction: Trolling (4 points / 90 days) issued by DizZz
Status: Active
Projected Expiry Date: 3/16/15
Forum Post: /t/1530368/i-wanna-design-japanese-cpu-made-in-nec#post_23278424


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## fragamemnon

You will appreciate his build log.

Some of this post actually is true, however explanations and reasoning are scarce, often questionable and/or wrong.


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## Alastair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fragamemnon*
> 
> You will appreciate his build log.
> 
> Some of this post actually is true, however explanations and reasoning are scarce, often questionable and/or wrong.


Looks good. But OP must remember. That if half of his posts end up being troll posts it only makes him half believable. So now while all this looks interesting. Is it true? Does it work? Can people verify? And can OP give practical examples so that we can see how his theories would work in practice?


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## RyoConstantine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iwamotto Tetsuz*
> 
> I was uploaded it years ago 12-18-13
> 
> *From another overclocking website*
> Conversation can be *OFFENSIVE*
> 
> *I recomend using this rule when you are overclocking so hard that all of your timings needs to be changed to increace overcloking freedom*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can also try with stock ram frequency and keep the CL same but use the rule
> 
> *My oppinion*
> Stock clocks and stock CL but using the rule will allow the RAM to operate with less error and run more smooth
> Giving increace in performance (ignoring that it can be slower in bench marks)
> 
> http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/741122-Perfect-Ram-Timing-Rule
> 
> Keep in mind lower numbers means higher ram performance
> 
> CL depends on your ram performance
> 
> You can single clock down CL for quick RAM tune up
> leaving everything else stock
> 
> 1T will give higher performance
> 2T will give higher RAM frequency
> 3T will give higher RAM frequency
> 
> Find the balance between 1T or 2T memory clock capability giving you best performance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. TRAS=TCL+TRCD+TRP
> 
> 2.TRC=TRAS+TRCD *Or* Tras+TRP *Or* Tras +CL
> 
> 3.TWR=TRTP+TCL *Or* TRTP+TRCD
> 
> 4.TFAW=TRRD+TWTR+TCWL+TRTP+TWR (TWR which stays the same with the twr rule TRTP+TRCD)
> 
> 5.Ratio Rule for TCL-TRCD-TRP is 9-10-8 (Cl Lowest-TRCD Highest-TRP Middle)
> 
> 6.Ratio Rule for TFAW (Back Timings) TRRD+TWTR+TCWL+TRTP (TRRD lowest, TWTR mid low, TCWL mid high TRTP highest)
> Which TRRD is simular to CL which decides the RAM operating speed
> 
> 7.Decreacing TRC and TRAS by -1 to -20 can increase ram write performance
> Depending on how much it can take
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Normally manufacture uses -3 TRC and TRAS
> 
> 8.Higher TRCD and higher TRP should give higher frequency also trc and tras needs to be changed
> 
> (TFAW timing rule hasn't been tested in overclocking yet, this is only an test theory which I will use in overclocking my RAM on the fxa990 gd80 msi
> I also need to check by looking at the ram timing setting avalible in my FXA990 GD80 MSI before I can be fully sure that it is right for the back timings
> Also I need to upload a ram timing table screen shot of my MSI BIOS later on)
> 
> *Recomended Rule to use*
> TRAS=CL+TRCD+TRP
> 
> TRC=TRAS+TRCD
> 
> TWR=TRTP+TRCD
> 
> TFAW=TRRD+TWTR+TCWL+TRTP+TWR
> 
> Using CL ratio rule and back timing ratio rule
> Higher TRCD and higher TRP should give higher frequency also trc and tras needs to be changed


I won't question your other posts and honestly i don't really care about what others might think of you, so consider what i'm saying unbiased.
what are these times? read? write? what cycle of reading or writing? tCL(CAS) or tWR aren't simply the all read or write cycles times so...
in the same bank? in the same rank? under what circumstances? minimum or maximum?
Please be specific, some of rules that you mentioned are INCORRECT, so if possible explain how are you calculating these rules.


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RyoConstantine*
> 
> I won't question your other posts and honestly i don't really care about what others might think of you, so consider what i'm saying unbiased.
> what are these times? read? write? what cycle of reading or writing? tCL(CAS) or tWR aren't simply the all read or write cycles times so...
> in the same bank? in the same rank? under what circumstances? minimum or maximum?
> Please be specific, some of rules that you mentioned are INCORRECT, so if possible explain how are you calculating these rules.


Triall and error method. + Reading what others say on ram timing. Like RAM timing guide. (they have rules and what each timing does)

Also new update, Depending on RAM module it will only operate on certain Row Refresh Cycle frequencys, there are 2 or 4 ramtimings for this,80ns, 160NS or 300NS or 350NS (DDR3 RAM)
Example 1600 RAM runs on 160NS, 2400RAM will not run below 300NS even at 1600 speeds

You will want to try out 300NS or higher when your overclocking FSB allot. As you may be able to break your FSB barrarier by setting this higher.

For 1T2T timings, you will need to set it at 2T for high FSBS, unless it operates with the FSB clocked.
Again setting 2T or 3T or higher can break your max FSB barrier

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb205/maffraff/Tweaking/20409-10-10AMDOverdrive.png


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

Update, Timings fixed and I am 100% confident that it is correct







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alastair*
> 
> Looks good. But OP must remember. That if half of his posts end up being troll posts it only makes him half believable. So now while all this looks interesting. Is it true? Does it work? Can people verify? And can OP give practical examples so that we can see how his theories would work in practice?


You can go try my timing rule and totally have your timming messed up, as long as that RAM speed isn't too high for the RAM to handle. Using the rule will result in manufactre quality timing, or even better


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## ldrancer

which ram is best for x58 overclocking?

this thread cant help itself. only someone, a single person, can retest their setup to compare it against anything.

if noone knows anything about ddr3, i guess ill just use my best guess. which usually gets me the best results.
heres the one thing i know. everyone says, blclk never heard of it, ok? but it cant go past, 200 on this x58 board. any of them. dont know what it means, never heard of it. anyway, thats my goal. 210 is the max anyones said theyve ran. whatever that is, how about doing 4.8ghz? and i dont want to set the ram to 2133 speed from 1600 speed.

ive not tested my ddr2 since i hardly know how to do the overclockign to add anything here. my board also has the whole, mchbar thing locked, which in ddr3 terms, would be like that qpi stuff, i think.
theres lots of ram rules by the way anyway. like the ddr speed, which noone talks about now. like how ive heard a higher ddr2 speed is better, but never seen it proved. by 2-3%. like not actually buying ddr2 1066 and putting it in a 8.5x 440fsb overclocked computer running a 1:1 divider, but runnning it at .. some other changing the ram speed to run at closer to 1066 which is what the speed the ram is SAID to run at. like how theres ddr2 1200 ram. ddr2 800 ram.

why not just buy ddr2 400 and run a 400fsb processor? and dont explain that to me. ive set sdram pc100 ram to pc133 speed, from the processor being overclocked, it overclocked the ram, 20mhz. .. 1.5 years later, it messes up a 5 gig file. 3 times.


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

BclK means FSB same thing diffrent wording
You wouldn't buy a DDR2 800MHZ (400 in CPUZ) and run it on a 400FSB processor, as you will get same performance as running on 50FSB processor and using mulitplier to increace the RAM back to 800MHZ

DDR2 isn't better or anything, it is the CL vs the clock speed you have, when you OC your Dram by 33% in clock speeds, obviously you need to have the correct TRP and TRCD timing to be able to operate wtihout crashing, also you porbally needed more voltage









You can always set your RAM at highest mulitpier or set a 2133 muiltipier, you don't have to increace FSB/blck.
make sure your NB frequency is higher than RAM frequency or equal to at most, or you will not boot. best RAM means the highest MHZ you can get with timings tight, look for lowest numbers CL divide by MHZ, so a CL6 1600 should be better than a 2400 RAM at CL10.

https://www.memoryc.com/computermemory/ddr3/4gbgskillddr3pc3128001600mhzripjawsxseriesforsandybridge68624dualchannelkit.html
this memory rocks 1600 mhz cas 6 is cool , buy when you overclock it , u unlock the power of these rams , 2133 mhz cas 7 @ 1.65v it's insane
awesome price , awesome performance and awesome overclock
Thats faster than my G skill CL10 at 2400 max overclock is only CL8 at 2133
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *josepi*
> 
> I remember one time I read something on how to check if ram is faster, better yet like doing a comparison on latency, the CL denotes how many cycles the RAM needs from when it gets request until it's ready to deliver.
> 
> So it's something like this:
> 
> CL10 / 2450Mhz = 0.0040
> CL8 / 2160Mhz = 0.0037
> 
> So the CL8 should be faster compared to the 2450, but maybe you need to change the CL of the 2450 to get it stable at that speed.
> 
> Did you try to bump the CL a little on the 2450mhz? maybe that's the problem


http://www.overclock.net/t/1580232/2400cl10-or-2160-cl8]

I have fixed up some little plorbem on the timing rule, you may want to recheck the rules.

http://valid.x86.fr/jz016v
Very good results, my max overclock was apprximatly 2070 on this RAM I wasn't able to do 2133at all and I broke the record today, 2070 was at 2.46V and 2133was at 2V

http://valid.x86.fr/jz016v
It broke the 2133 barrarier and boosted all the way upto 2240MHZ, I tried 2300with losser timings but it keept crashing in windows

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/734279-1600RAM-OC-To-2006-With-Crazy-Timings
Oops I meant my max OC was 2006MHZ


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## ldrancer

ok, then i dont mean FSB i mean bus.


please explain that to me cause everywhere i go, tired of reading it.. no im not running a ddr2 800 kit of ram on 400fsb 50bus speed processor. this is my question

i can test this tehoery of higher mhz ram speed or tighter timings. this is at 5-5-5-15 and its rated 5-5-5-15 at 1066 mhz freaking ram speed. why i have to say mhz, frequencies bus 3 times i dont know.


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## ldrancer

what im talking about is nowhereee in hte bios is it telling you that fsb is 1333, anywhere or 1600, its telling you that your speed is 400mhz. or 800 mhz. they think theyre all smart or some thing. putting a 2 on ddr2 and then giving you a number you have to multiply, lke thats all complicated. and fancy. no its a bunch offf i dont care, how about saying the bus is multiplied.
its not even possible to run ddr2 ram on a 50mhz bus speed processor.

you times ram by 2 to get the speed of the bus of the comptuer or whatever this, front side bus stands for.

ill test it if you give me a configuration. heres what to play with here. 8.5multiplier, 333bus, 2.83ghz stock speed, can hit 3.65ghz and 430mhz bus speed. heres the ram to play with, ddr2 1066 with spd timings of 5-5-5-15 at that speed. in spd it only has 1 other setting it says, 4-4-4-10 at ddr2 667. its voltage is 2.1volts at ddr2 1066.

you see my bios screen there. my voltage and timings are set to 1066 mhz speed. please, test my computer


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

So 1:2 Means that at 400FSB RAM will be at 800MHZ
To run 1066 You should be using 10.6/2=5.3, which means you should tRC-tRP at 5.5 or higher

Easy way is to look at my formulars on what equales to what

http://www.overclock.net/t/1581748/kingston-value-ram-4gb1600-oc-to-2600-cl10-on-air
Some very postive results in using the RAM timing rule, I wasn't actually able to boot at just 2133 Before I worked out a good rule for timing









Try 7-7-7-19-26- 5 TRRD-6 TWTR-9 TWR-4 TRTP-3 TWL-15 TFAW-2T (TRFC1,2,3,4 at 300NS)
If it boots at *1066* then try 6-7-7-18-25 5TRRD-6TWTR-9TWR-4TWTR-3TWL-15TFAW-2T


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

You need to have a certian number of TRAS and TRFC to run certain frequencies, you may want to leave it as cl+2X tTRCD then try CL+TRCD+TRRD(EG the 2400 tidrent X needed 30-42 minimum to run stalbe)
Update


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



RAM speed can be modeled by CL divided by MHZ, lower numbers result in faster RAM
10/2400=0.00416
8/2133=0.00375, which means CL8 2133 is faster than Cl10 2400

For fastest ram speeds, aim for lowest CL and lowest TWTR and TRRD
Lower CL means faster RAM, lower numbers means faster timmings.

Tras= CL+TRCD+TRRD

TRP= your RAM speed Example 2400RAM will need a setting of 12 or higher
2133 will Need a setting of 11
Thus 13X2=26X100=2600, therefore to run 2600 RAM this timing must be 13 Or higher

(note that TRCD shouldn't be smaller than TRP, it should be equal or higher)
You should increace TRCD when small amounts of stabibility is needed, because the speeds are to fast for the ram to handle.
You can also manually add 1 clock or more to TRAS and TRFC, stabibility will increace, as there is a 1 clock or more delay for stuff to finish before going onto next step

TRFC= TRAS+ TRCD
You need to have a certian number of TRAS and TRFC to run certain frequencies, Genrally saying the higher the ram MHZ the higher these numbers will need to be
Example the 2400 tidrent X needed *30-42 minimum* to run stalbe when clocked at 2400mhz. *stock is 31-43*)

TRRD Must Be smaller than TWTR, Typically TWTR should be 1 clock higher than TRRD *(You cannot write data untill you read data)*
TRRD= 20
TWTR=21
(These are bascally read write time CL. Depping on how much your RAM can take, *the lower you can set it the faster it is*)

TWR =Manually specify for performance (To higher frequencies this may need to be a certain number)
Depends on how fast your ram can run.
4-5clocks higher than TRRD for DDR4 RAM
3-4clocks higher than TRRD for DDR3 ram
2-3clocks higher than TRRD for DDR2 RAm
1-2clocks higher than TRRD for DDR ram
1-2clocks higher than TRRD for Dram

TRTP and TWLis the diffrence in your TRRD and TWTR timming compared with TWR
TRRD+TRTP=TWR
TWTR+TWL=TWR

TFAW=TWR+TRRD

Typically, If your CL can be set at CL7, your TRRD should be able to run at 5 or lower.
It is best to have TWTR one click lower than CL ( TWTR at 6).

TRRD and TWTR can be even lower when you want more performance.
But it shouldn't get you far, as your CL timing will be bottle necking your very fast TRRD and TWTR settings.
In terms of best stabibility and performance, CL at 20 means your TRRD should be at 18 and TWTR should be at 19

Command Rate depends on your RAM module, Lower numbers are faster
If your ram module and ram chip is designed to run at 2T for stock speeds. Then you must set your ram running at 2T or higher
(setting this at 2T or higher can yeild higher max FSB OC)

TRFC0,1,2,3,4 Depends on RAM module, lower numbers are faster
Depends on RAM chip and RAM module, if it is 300NS stock then you must set this at 300 NS or higher
(setting this at 350NS or higher can yeild higher max FSB OC)



I picked up quite a few errors in the orignal post. Heres the rule edited and reposted


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

Haven't clocked ram timings for quite a bit of time, refered to my own rule and found this to be wrong
TFAW=TWR+TRRD

Quote:


> Correct TFAW=TWR+CL


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## NIK1

I have 4 sticks ddr3 2400 Tridentx with stock timings of 9 11 11 31.. Anyone know if TRAS can go lower with performance gains than my stock 31.The formula posted above says Tras= CL+TRCD+TRRD..Also, does dropping TREFI lower make anything better. Mine is on auto and it has it at 9451 .


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

To drop the tras you'll need to lower your CL,TRRD, TWTR and if you can also lower your TRCD,
The main way to lower TRAS is to lower TRRD and TWTR

https://rog.asus.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-32105.html
TREFI is a ram moduel dependent thing, just like TRFC0,1,2,3,4 which are in ns300,90,160,350.
Don't really think its a performance related thing.

For intel systems either TRAS or TRC would be some high and crasy number and not sure how you translate that from AMD number to intel numbers


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## zipper17

interesting thread

but i want to share my experience

my ddr3 2400mhz mem simply wont boot with XMP setting TRRD=8, TWTR=10, TWCL=13
tried vcssa & vccio = 1.3v & 1.3v,, lol it still wont boot, i spend 2 weeks to find the problem.

luckily I tried to change TRRD to 7, TWCL is also need at 12. , and it booted up with 2400mhz, vcssa/vccio even at default, 1,65V.

The rest of the primary & secondary timings i just follow the XMP table timing from aida64 SPD reading.

Very2 weird TRRD & TWCL is the culprit for not booting/POST up.

Not working at all:
XMP Primary timings: 2400 MHZ CL 11-13-13-35 -2T (From XMP profile AIDA Timing table)
XMP Secondary Timings: 16-255-10-*8*-10 -31-*13* (TWR-TRFC-TWTR-TRRD-TRTP-TFAW-CWL)
TREFI = 9360, CKE = 6 (following motherboard instruction for 2400)
i tried so many timing, vccsa/vccio increasement, no matter what it simply wont post.

Working:
XMP Primary timings: 2400 MHZ CL 11-13-13-35 -2T (From XMP profile AIDA Timing table)
XMP Secondary Timings: 16-255-10-*7*-10 -31-*12* (TWR-TRFC-TWTR-TRRD-TRTP-TFAW-CWL)
TREFI = 9360, CKE = 6 (following motherboard instruction for 2400)
it doesnt even need to increase vccsa/vccio at all. it just need 2 timings type to change.

my mother board limit the TWR max at 16, and TRFC max at 255.

it could be my motherboard compability or something else.


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## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iwamotto Tetsuz*
> 
> Haven't clocked ram timings for quite a bit of time, refered to my own rule and found this to be wrong
> TFAW=TWR+TRRD


Minimum actual tFAW is tRRD*4. Many boards allow it to be set lower, but it won't actually do anything because tFAW is the minimum time four row activate commands can be sent and tRRD is the row to row delay. You can't issue four row commands in less time than four row activates can be issued, so that's a hard limit.

Most platforms also seem to limit tRRD to 4, but this is not universally the case.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NIK1*
> 
> I have 4 sticks ddr3 2400 Tridentx with stock timings of 9 11 11 31.. Anyone know if TRAS can go lower with performance gains than my stock 31.The formula posted above says Tras= CL+TRCD+TRRD..Also, does dropping TREFI lower make anything better. Mine is on auto and it has it at 9451 .


Optimal tRAS is less clear because tRAS is a somewhat flexible window. Absolute minimum that can actually be set appears to be CAS + tRCD, but this is usually too low to actually be usable/stable (and will often be ignored by the platform). A good rule of thumb is CAS + tRCD + tRtP (row to precharge delay, a secondary timing, not tRP). There is usually some wiggle room.


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *zipper17*
> 
> interesting thread
> 
> but i want to share my experience
> 
> my ddr3 2400mhz mem simply wont boot with XMP setting TRRD=8, TWTR=10, TWCL=13
> tried vcssa & vccio = 1.3v & 1.3v,, lol it still wont boot, i spend 2 weeks to find the problem.
> 
> luckily I tried to change TRRD to 7, TWCL is also need at 12. , and it booted up with 2400mhz, vcssa/vccio even at default, 1,65V.
> 
> The rest of the primary & secondary timings i just follow the XMP table timing from aida64 SPD reading.
> 
> Very2 weird TRRD & TWCL is the culprit for not booting/POST up.
> 
> Not working at all:
> XMP Primary timings: 2400 MHZ CL 11-13-13-35 -2T (From XMP profile AIDA Timing table)
> XMP Secondary Timings: 16-255-10-*8*-10 -31-*13* (TWR-TRFC-TWTR-TRRD-TRTP-TFAW-CWL)
> TREFI = 9360, CKE = 6 (following motherboard instruction for 2400)
> i tried so many timing, vccsa/vccio increasement, no matter what it simply wont post.
> 
> Working:
> XMP Primary timings: 2400 MHZ CL 11-13-13-35 -2T (From XMP profile AIDA Timing table)
> XMP Secondary Timings: 16-255-10-*7*-10 -31-*12* (TWR-TRFC-TWTR-TRRD-TRTP-TFAW-CWL)
> TREFI = 9360, CKE = 6 (following motherboard instruction for 2400)
> it doesnt even need to increase vccsa/vccio at all. it just need 2 timings type to change.
> 
> my mother board limit the TWR max at 16, and TRFC max at 255.
> 
> it could be my motherboard compability or something else.
Click to expand...

Never heard of the timing CWL.
Also if you can set TRRD to 7 you should also be able to set TWTR to 8 and also tighten other stuff according to ram rule which should give you a slight boost in ram speed.
Quote:


> Minimum actual tFAW is tRRD*4. Many boards allow it to be set lower, but it won't actually do anything because tFAW is the minimum time four row activate commands can be sent and tRRD is the row to row delay. You can't issue four row commands in less time than four row activates can be issued, so that's a hard limit.


Thanks for the info


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## Redwoodz

Nice info.








I never knew half of all that that but I found out what was fast









My old Elpida Hypers

I am now tesing a kit of Apacer PC3 22400 2x4GB (of course this CPU will not push those speeds)


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

Nice OC results


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## Edgarhighmen

This thread is SUPER USEFUL. It's helped me re-do my ram from stock XMP. I have mixed sticks 4x 4gb staggered in DIMMS (1,3 - 2,4) dual channel. Both are 9-9-9-24 DDR3 1600. One pair is Corsair Vengeance, the other is Team Vulcan. Both are "supposedly" boasting their overclocking capabilities. It only runs 1600 (attempts at 1866 proved unfruitful) stock volts are 1.5 and tried up to 1.65 but no avail. I managed to get THESE RESULTS with your thread but I'm unsure how to go lower/faster.



Corsair Sticks: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820233180
Team Vulcan: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820313345

Both are PC3-12800 CAS Latency 9

Any further tips on what I can change? Thanks. (I know some are Lower than your "rules" values but my PC isn't crashing during booting, heavy load or games etc.









I went into looking how to quicken my ram after redoing my friends CPU Cooler/Bios today (new mobo) and he was getting High FPS but choppiness during games (no FPS drop) and I had his ram at 9-9-9-24 and he told me his sticks were supposed to be 7-7-7-22. Edited that and he had silky smooth gameplay. Made me wonder just how messed up my ram was LOL. My settings are in the pic. Help/Tips appreciated!


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

To go lower you'll need to increacse your ram voltage then you decreace your cl number from 9 to 8

Your ram may not crash even if you go out of the rule. But in the case of overclocking to increace the frequency like from 1600 to 1866 its best to stick with the rules untill you get the ram stable.
For 1866 you may want to try Command rate of 2 and TRFC0 and TRFC1 both set to 300. also try using 11 trcd and trp then lower these numbers after you get it stable.

Rember the effective main speed is CL/frequency the lower the number the faster, so if you set cl10 your'll be making your ram run faster than 1600 at cl9
10/1866=0.005359
9/1600=0.005625
the lower the number the faster, therefore if you want to try 1866 again go with a cl of 11.


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## Edgarhighmen

I was able to boot and play some games @ 9-8-8-17 @ 1.65v for 20 minutes before it crashed (tested twice).

I run stable 9-9-8-17 @ 1.5v

These are my current clocks (lower better?)



Am I at Benefit or Detriment from running Tras at 17 instead of 22 ? Can it go lower?
Am I at Benefit or Detriment from running Trc at 20 (IT IS ACTUALLY at 20 right now as I type this not 25) instead of 21 (tras17 + trcd 4) ?

Should I set Trrd to 4 since it doesn't seem to be registering/updating to 3?
Can I set Twtr to 4 and Twr to 5 and Tfaw to 8 if it is value 3?

My question is, is it OK to run a lower Tras than the formula (since it's working?) and can I lower Tras, Trc and Tfaw any more for benefit?

I was able to lower Twrwr and Trdrd but either value lower than that caused PC not to boot.

I haven't changed Tref and my Trfc's are at their "lowest selectable" setting based on their individual stick specs.

Also my Trrd is set to 3 but it seems "stuck" at 4. I have Twtr +1 from Trrd and I have Twr +2 from Trrd.

I haven't been able to change Tcwl or Trwtto without crashing (won't boot).

Do these subtimings mean anything if my CL is 9-9-8?


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

Mostly the performance gain you get from the sub timings are less than you get from increace in ram clock speed or decreace in cl.
You can always go below the formula as long as you run stable. Lower numers should always means quicker.
But I reckon its best to stick with the formula as it should make the ram run smoother.

When your TRRD is stuck at 4 then you should set it to 4 instead of 3. (many boards I had used have these plorbems where TRRD and TWTR can't go below a certain value)
TFAW=TWR+TRRD
if you want a lower TFAW try using 4 for TWR instead of 6

I think your TCWL may mean the same thing as TWL
You may want to try this TCWL= TWR minus Twtr

For the advanced timings i don't know what they are, so i'll leave them up for you yourself to explore.

You may want to try 9-8-8 @1.65V with recomending ram timing rules. Also the best way to check for mem error is to use HCI mem test
http://hcidesign.com/memtest/
Download the free ver, each coppy open can occupy up to 2gb ram and each coppy will stress once cpu core.
if you can run 30minutes of this then you mem is fully stable, for quick testing purpouses 3to 5 minutes would be enough.

Its recomnded that you find a overclock where you get zero errors in hci mem test.
Having errors and more ram frequency/timing dosen't get you any faster in benchmarks in my expreicne, compare to stable clocks


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## Edgarhighmen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iwamotto Tetsuz*
> 
> Mostly the performance gain you get from the sub timings are less than you get from increace in ram clock speed or decreace in cl.
> You can always go below the formula as long as you run stable. Lower numers should always means quicker.
> But I reckon its best to stick with the formula as it should make the ram run smoother.
> 
> When your TRRD is stuck at 4 then you should set it to 4 instead of 3. (many boards I had used have these plorbems where TRRD and TWTR can't go below a certain value)
> TFAW=TWR+TRRD
> if you want a lower TFAW try using 4 for TWR instead of 6
> 
> I think your TCWL may mean the same thing as TWL
> You may want to try this TCWL= TWR minus Twtr
> 
> For the advanced timings i don't know what they are, so i'll leave them up for you yourself to explore.
> 
> You may want to try 9-8-8 @1.65V with recomending ram timing rules. Also the best way to check for mem error is to use HCI mem test
> http://hcidesign.com/memtest/
> Download the free ver, each coppy open can occupy up to 2gb ram and each coppy will stress once cpu core.
> if you can run 30minutes of this then you mem is fully stable, for quick testing purpouses 3to 5 minutes would be enough.
> 
> Its recomnded that you find a overclock where you get zero errors in hci mem test.
> Having errors and more ram frequency/timing dosen't get you any faster in benchmarks in my expreicne, compare to stable clocks


I used the Memtest and around 44-50%+ with 9-8-8 even with 1.65v it would constantly error. 9-9-8 @ 1.5 produced no errors (8x memtest's open @ 2048 memory each). 9-8-8 produced errors on the third/fourth memtest I'd open consistently afterwards :'(. Guess I'm stuck with 9-9-8-17.

I have Four 4GB sticks (16gb total) Can I run quad channel instead of dual? is there a benefit to that? Just read my Motherboard MSI 970 Gaming AM3+ only does dual channel @ 2 dimms per slot?, CPU 4.3 FX-8370 @ 1.38 volts


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

If you really want more overclock go up to 1.75V on the rams
Once you go past 1.75V it is important to touch your ram sticks to see if they burn your hads. If it burns you should back off the voltage.
Load up the rams with mem test and check the temps

Rams without any cooler can run up to 1.9V wihout any plorbems from my epxrience.

I know 8GB modules run much hotter though so you may want to stay below 1.85V for 8gb modules


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## Edgarhighmen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iwamotto Tetsuz*
> 
> If you really want more overclock go up to 1.75V on the rams
> Once you go past 1.75V it is important to touch your ram sticks to see if they burn your hads. If it burns you should back off the voltage.
> Load up the rams with mem test and check the temps
> 
> Rams without any cooler can run up to 1.9V wihout any plorbems from my epxrience.
> 
> I know 8GB modules run much hotter though so you may want to stay below 1.85V for 8gb modules


Well I have bad news. Even my 9-9-8 clock was unstable. After an hour + of gaming my PC would full lockup or BSOD. I narrowed it down to the RAM timings were the ONLY thing I had changed on the PC. Set them back to stock and no more crashes. I'm stuck at 9-9-9-24.

They are two different brands of ram (Team Vulcan/Corsair Vengeance 9-9-9-24 @1600mhz) same size and timing w/ different sub timings.


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## TrantaLocked

I have the G.Skill 2400 DDR3 RAM kit but it doesn't run stable at the tested values for the G.Skill 1866 kit. I have yet to get a motherboard that supports over 1866, but basically the 1866 kit is tested at 8-9-9-24 @1.6V, and my kit is only stable at 8-10-10-24 @1.5V. I know I have the 2400 kit which has higher tested timings at 2400 MHz, but is this still normal or should I try to get an exchange?


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TrantaLocked*
> 
> I have the G.Skill 2400 DDR3 RAM kit but it doesn't run stable at the tested values for the G.Skill 1866 kit. I have yet to get a motherboard that supports over 1866, but basically the 1866 kit is tested at 8-9-9-24 @1.6V, and my kit is only stable at 8-10-10-24 @1.5V. I know I have the 2400 kit which has higher tested timings at 2400 MHz, but is this still normal or should I try to get an exchange?


Try using the xmp profile, then adjust to 8-9-9-24

Try giving it 1.77V. I own this ram, the only way to run stable on any am3 system is to have it running at 1.77V. It is not stable even at 1333 without running at 1.77v
At 1.77V it can do about 2133mhz and cl8 and cl7 with 1.96v-2v where water is required.
The ram is quite werid though, sometimes runs nice with some boards at 1.83V plus. Some boards refuses to be stable above 1.83v mine is water cooled.

At the very first page ,thats my 2400 setting, you can coppy it then adjust only the pimary timings


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## TrantaLocked

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iwamotto Tetsuz*
> 
> Try using the xmp profile, then adjust to 8-9-9-24
> 
> Try giving it 1.77V. I own this ram, the only way to run stable on any am3 system is to have it running at 1.77V. It is not stable even at 1333 without running at 1.77v
> At 1.77V it can do about 2133mhz and cl8 and cl7 with 1.96v-2v where water is required.
> The ram is quite werid though, sometimes runs nice with some boards at 1.83V plus. Some boards refuses to be stable above 1.83v mine is water cooled.
> 
> At the very first page ,thats my 2400 setting, you can coppy it then adjust only the pimary timings


@1.77 wat? That's super high. I think AMD systems must be different because I can run 1866 at 1.5v stable with 8-10-10-24. Anyway, I'm trying to stay near 1.5v for DRAM so once I upgrade my board and try for 2133/2400, I'll maybe raise to 1.55-1.6v if I need to, but no higher.


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

I actually got sets of these ram since they went cheap, like not much more than a standard 1866 or 1600 16gb set.
One set was for a mate also amd system.
He also needed excatly 1.77V to run 100% stable. Overclocking wise, same max clocks as mine 2400 tidrent x


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

Post Removed


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## KENJI512

Hi! Are rules from first post still viable for X570, Ryzen 5000 and latest DDR4 modules?

I'm tweaking my G.SKILL Trident Z Neo F4-4000C14D-32GTZN (4000MHz CL14), now at 3733MHz CL14 (IMC/IF issues), that's why am asking.


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