# Razer Synapse 2.0 software/mouse unusable if you dont have an internet connection or their servers are down...



## CorruptBE

Not to mention the Deathadder feels weird and funky when not using native DPI steps... (even when they're 1/2, 1/4 of the native value).


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## Vikhr

Should be fun for people that attend lans and/or have poor internet.


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## ZareliMan

Well I expected to see something like this...
Mouse activation, that's rich, well played razer.


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## TheGlow

Ill be experiencing this shortly.
I have the original naga and when I was looking for updates a few months ago I saw synapse.
Gave that a whirl and it kill my macros and settings I already had, then hassles with logging in, etc.
So I run the old app and says no Naga mouse detected.
I had to uninstall synapse and the original drivers, reboot, install the old ones and all was fine again.

This week bestbuy has the new 2012 Naga for $60 and their Gamer magazine has a $20 off coupon.
So for 40, i couldn't pass it up. I got it yesterday and going to deal with Synapse tonight.
Side note I opted for the 2 year protection for $12 because once my current naga dies Id like to pull a switcharoo on them and return the old one.
I used to work there so I know some hustles. Hell, I had to walk 2 cashiers yesterday on how to ring up the coupons and protection plan properly.


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## resis

Mouse DRM.


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## maikon

its the stupid thing razer ever did adn they refuse to listen to customers at all. Im not sure why this hasnt been an outcry by now.
Worse DRM ever
Cant even play on lan tournaments so stupid


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## Dt_Freak1

i swear to gods the lachesis 5600dpi gaming mouse better not have some crap like that otherwise i might go postal and flip biscuits at the idiots at razer. why would you need a valid internet connection to use a flipping mouse?! someday i hope to have the lachesis 5600 dpi. its also rude the supervisor hung up on you OP.


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## MrFerrari

This synapse crap will be a good reason NOT to buy Razer. Why not just save the settings IN the mouse instead of some cloud based ****.


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## channelx99

Gets even better. They finally replied to my support request through email about not being able to log in to their terrible software. I get an obviously prescripted response asking me if the keys on the mouse stick (like I spilled soda or something on it ), telling me to try a different usb port, and asking if I use a desktop or a pc. Nowhere did they acknowledge my issue about their server being down, why they require a log in and why I cant use their software offline.


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## Dt_Freak1

wow you stay classy razer makes me wanna consider steel series


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## channelx99

Im sure the only reason they require a log in and be online to use a mouse is to data mine from their customers. There really should be a big outcry about this


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## Bojamijams

Razer is the worst POS company ever. After owning their Imperator and Naga, and briefly owning the blackwidow garbage, and having to deal with their 'support', I will never EVER use their products or recommend their overpriced cheaply made crap.

Forget the naga, get the Logitech G600. Its a better mouse, better built, better software, better ergonomics, better price, better layout, higher DPI. In every possible way measurable, an equivalent Logitech mouse will stomp over a Razer.


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## Anhedonique

Razer has been making gimmicky under-performing products with terrible build quality for ages, yet people keep buying it for reasons beyond my understanding.

I know people that periodically buy razer mice because they break so fast.

I mean... if it breaks in a few months of NORMAL use, why in the god's name would you go and buy ANOTHER same mouse.

I've bought razer products before, I've tested a lot of them and so far they haven't convinced me.


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## h4rdcor3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bojamijams*
> 
> Razer is the worst POS company ever. After owning their Imperator and Naga, and briefly owning the blackwidow garbage, and having to deal with their 'support', I will never EVER use their products or recommend their overpriced cheaply made crap.
> Forget the naga, get the Logitech G600. Its a better mouse, better built, better software, better ergonomics, better price, better layout, higher DPI. In every possible way measurable, an equivalent Logitech mouse will stomp over a Razer.


I left Logitech because of setpoint. I have been happy with my deathadder(s) and Mamba. Logitech mice tend to hurt my hands on extended usage. But this is pretty much unacceptable.


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## duox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Not to mention the Deathadder feels weird and funky when not using native DPI steps... (even when they're 1/2, 1/4 of the native value).


Ya I have to use the archived drivers because I can't play half the games I play at anything higher than 900 dpi. This is my last razer product though because of Synapse.


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## pjBSOD

Mouse DRM..



Also, hello /v/!


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## Enigma776

I will just throw my 2 cents in.

I recently bought a deathadder 3.5g mouse. I was told I would need the Synapse software to use my mouse, I thought ok must be how they do drivers now. Then I realised I needed an account, again no problem I thought. Then the problems started. I had mouse lag in which it would stutter and misbehave as well as the LED lights would flicker on the mouse. Looking around the internet I found it was a common complaint and could be fixed by updating the firmware I did that to no avail.

I then put in a support ticket to figure out what was going wrong with my mouse. A guy comes back with all these troubleshooting suggestions, having followed those and got no results I asked why do I need to use Synapse 2.0 is there no proper drivers any more and why do I need to use this bloatware software package. Low and behold on the next email some proper drivers turned up with a normal config utility and best of all no login or mouse problems.

The only thing I can suggest is to ask for proper drivers and ditch this synapse thing altogether. The Mice are good Mice its just the current driver platform is pure crap.

I have found more and more companies now doing this bloatware driver platform and it has to stop we do not need flashy gfx or cloud storage for a mouse driver let alone any driver. all we ask is for a driver that performs well and does what it says it will do.


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## Boatski

And I was thinking about buying a naga. Not anymore I guess.


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## duox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Enigma776*
> 
> I will just throw my 2 cents in.
> I recently bought a deathadder 3.5g mouse. I was told I would need the Synapse software to use my mouse, I thought ok must be how they do drivers now. Then I realised I needed an account, again no problem I thought. Then the problems started. I had mouse lag in which it would stutter and misbehave as well as the LED lights would flicker on the mouse. Looking around the internet I found it was a common complaint and could be fixed by updating the firmware I did that to no avail.
> I then put in a support ticket to figure out what was going wrong with my mouse. A guy comes back with all these troubleshooting suggestions, having followed those and got no results I asked why do I need to use Synapse 2.0 is there no proper drivers any more and why do I need to use this bloatware software package. Low and behold on the next email some proper drivers turned up with a normal config utility and best of all no login or mouse problems.
> The only thing I can suggest is to ask for proper drivers and ditch this synapse thing altogether. The Mice are good Mice its just the current driver platform is pure crap.
> I have found more and more companies now doing this bloatware driver platform and it has to stop we do not need flashy gfx or cloud storage for a mouse driver let alone any driver. all we ask is for a driver that performs well and does what it says it will do.


Yup if razer did not have a diver archive on their sote inwould not have bought the da black ed


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## -SE7EN-

I don't know if it would work for the 2012 edition, but you can get a pre-synapse driver (3.03) and try it. It works for my Naga Epic offline. If you would like to try it for your version, toss me a pm and I'll send you a copy of my backup.


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## 5nak3

I actually can't believe what I've just read in this thread. OP, this might be a daft question, but why can't you return the mouse for a refund?

I know for a fact if this happened to me I would be sending that mouse from whence it came. I guess due to the UK's inability to offer a decent PC store locally, I make all my purchases online and am covered under the distance selling rights to an extent, but seriously it seems to me you've paid good money to a company to use their product which clearly isn't fit for the purpose that you bought it for, so why not get your money back?


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## TheGlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Enigma776*
> 
> I will just throw my 2 cents in.
> I recently bought a deathadder 3.5g mouse. I was told I would need the Synapse software to use my mouse, I thought ok must be how they do drivers now. Then I realised I needed an account, again no problem I thought. Then the problems started. I had mouse lag in which it would stutter and misbehave as well as the LED lights would flicker on the mouse. Looking around the internet I found it was a common complaint and could be fixed by updating the firmware I did that to no avail.
> I then put in a support ticket to figure out what was going wrong with my mouse. A guy comes back with all these troubleshooting suggestions, having followed those and got no results I asked why do I need to use Synapse 2.0 is there no proper drivers any more and why do I need to use this bloatware software package. Low and behold on the next email some proper drivers turned up with a normal config utility and best of all no login or mouse problems.
> The only thing I can suggest is to ask for proper drivers and ditch this synapse thing altogether. The Mice are good Mice its just the current driver platform is pure crap.
> I have found more and more companies now doing this bloatware driver platform and it has to stop we do not need flashy gfx or cloud storage for a mouse driver let alone any driver. all we ask is for a driver that performs well and does what it says it will do.


Ahh see that deathadder is an old model, so they still have those pre-synapse drivers sitting around.
Hell you can google and it will link you the old ones on their site, but if you naturally browse around their site, everything leads to Synapse.
http://www.razersupport.com/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=574

I did the update to synapse for the naga 2012, so far so good. No real horrors as of yet. However it's informing me my Blackwidow Ultimate has a firmware update, but I refuse to update that in the event I decide to go back to standard drivers and find out the keyboard won't be detected because of wrong firmware.
And I've read mixed reports of being able to roll back the firmware.

Also the 2012 naga didn't pick up on the older drivers. I actually had 3.02 installed and no luck.
I know these guys have stand alones for the old stuff still and wouldn't be surprised if one of the perks of working there is to have a synapse-free setup.
Someone needs to start up a fake email chain complaint about not having internet and only can email by phone and need an alternate non synapse for 2012.
Also that site razer blueprints has been under construction for a year + now. Cant find some blueprints for an LED mod.


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## channelx99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *5nak3*
> 
> I actually can't believe what I've just read in this thread. OP, this might be a daft question, but why can't you return the mouse for a refund?
> I know for a fact if this happened to me I would be sending that mouse from whence it came. I guess due to the UK's inability to offer a decent PC store locally, I make all my purchases online and am covered under the distance selling rights to an extent, but seriously it seems to me you've paid good money to a company to use their product which clearly isn't fit for the purpose that you bought it for, so why not get your money back?


More than likely I will be Ive got a while on the return period. Waiting to see what Razer has to say about it first though but Im guess that might be futile.
Its a shame though because I dont know any mice that have all the buttons on the side like the Nagas do.


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## -SE7EN-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *channelx99*
> 
> More than likely I will be Ive got a while on the return period. Waiting to see what Razer has to say about it first though but Im guess that might be futile.
> Its a shame though because I dont know any mice that have all the buttons on the side like the Nagas do.


sent you a pm with the 3.03 driver link. also, they're not set up exactly like the Naga's are, but http://www.corsair.com/us/vengeance-gaming/vengeance-gaming-mice/vengeance-m90-performance-mmo-rts-laser-gaming-mouse.html seems to be the same style and amount of buttons.

edit, meant http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/mice/g600-mmo-gaming-mouse although the corsair mouse is kind of similar too.


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## channelx99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-SE7EN-*
> 
> sent you a pm with the 3.03 driver link. also, they're not set up exactly like the Naga's are, but http://www.corsair.com/us/vengeance-gaming/vengeance-gaming-mice/vengeance-m90-performance-mmo-rts-laser-gaming-mouse.html seems to be the same style and amount of buttons.
> edit, meant http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/mice/g600-mmo-gaming-mouse although the corsair mouse is kind of similar too.


Drivers didnt work unfortunately. Said Naga Epic wasnt detected when the software launched

I do like the Logitech G600 didnt know they made a mouse like that. Ive been happy with all my other logitech products in the past too they have great customer service.


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## TheGlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *channelx99*
> 
> Drivers didnt work unfortunately. Said Naga Epic wasnt detected when the software launched
> I do like the Logitech G600 didnt know they made a mouse like that. Ive been happy with all my other logitech products in the past too they have great customer service.


I had the 3.03 drivers in for my regular Naga, and nope, didn't work for 2012.
Side note, the Synapse madness begins. Because it claims I have a firmware update available for my BlackWidow, it has disabled all macro and key swapping abilities on the Blackwidow. I can make a macro and set it to a macro key, nothing. Change a letter to something else, still the default key. Tried macro off Naga, perfectly fine.
They really do disable all special features until you update. Still holding off on the update for a little bit.


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## GariKrandi

channelx99, you just got into news in Finland


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## Viski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GariKrandi*
> 
> channelx99, you just got into news in Finland


Some major news lol. Just this.


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## axipher

I was also taken by surprise when I first tried to launch Synapse at work. I do AutoCAD drafting most of the day, so an accurate mouse is a must. My company's firewall actually blocks the Synapse software completely so I had to install the older driver.


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## forthedisplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *h4rdcor3*
> 
> I left Logitech because of setpoint. I have been happy with my deathadder(s) and Mamba. Logitech mice tend to hurt my hands on extended usage. But this is pretty much unacceptable.


New logitech mice use Logitech Gaming Software, which is far, far better than what Setpoint ever was.

I got a 30% off coupon from Logitech for two products, and the offer was a single day only. I ended up buying the Logitech G600. I already have Gigabyte Aivia Osmium as my main Keyboard, but I did consider getting the G710+ for 100€ too with the coupon (preorder). I don't really care about some small difference in switches even if the browns might be better than reds for me (actually, from the reviews I can judge that the G710+ looks worse and has worse build quality than the osmium), but the fact that I could have had G710+, G600 and G13 all running from a single profile - that would've been a killer.

However, if the mouse doesn't fit your hand, that will be biggest limiting factor for you, of course.


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## channelx99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GariKrandi*
> 
> channelx99, you just got into news in Finland


Finland is an awesome country in my book


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## channelx99

Contacting support has been pretty useless so far they dont want to budge on anything since they dont think theres a problem with their software. I argued there was no disclosure about needing to activate the mouse online before hand, and that they didnt have a right to monitor my usage whenever I was connected to the internet, but it fell on deaf ears.

I think the only way they will change is if enough people let them know what theyre doing is wrong:

http://help.razersupport.com/us-en/email.asp


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## krokdylz

R.I.P. Razer ...


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## RuSo

http://www.overclock.net/t/1320903/razer-synapse-2-0-offline-saved-settings-and-login-for-offline-pcs

For synapse 2.0 usage offline and profile saving


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## TheGlow

Well I decided to set up so auto profile switching. I did that little with my blackwidow, but not much.
I notice now in Synapse 2.0 it also forces the game to minimize when you load it. Extra step there as I have to click the game back up.
Some games I recall don't like you alt-tabbing around, so another fail here.


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## channelx99

My suspisions are confirmed. Synapse 2.0's only purpose is to spy on you:
*
"User Generated Information" means any information made available to Razer through your use of the Software. Subject to the Privacy Policy mentioned above, you expressly grant Razer the complete and irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the User Generated Information and derivative works thereof in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind.

By using Razer Synapse 2.0 ("Synapse"), the Subscriber agrees that Razer may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information. Razer may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Razer shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below.*

The Synapse 2.0 software was not created to benefit customers in any way. It was a ploy to get into your computer and watch what you do and profit off this info.


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## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RetroSpiderman*
> 
> I just ordered a death adder...


Congrats it's a great mouse.







Thinking on one myself for my nephew Christmas present.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Padishah*
> 
> The new Synapse software has "cloud" support thats why you need to log on to Synapsesave and load your profiles.
> here is a link to the old software no cloud storage and runs standalone
> http://www.razersupport.com/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=viewdownload&downloaditemid=744
> also my synapse 2.0 software loads fine without and internet connection.


That's awesome. Has anyone tried this on the Naga 2012 yet confirm it works with macros?

Truly sad to be forced to use Synapse to obtain the options one already paid for within the product hardware. It would have been better served if they provided cloud storage as an 'option'. I do agree that being forced to the cloud or any services in order to obtain a purchased product features is wrong especially when that info is being used and profited from.

Threads being derailed a bit by Razer haters who take this opportunity to say 'I"m never going to buy another Razer product" when they never did or already made that decision prior to this news.









Boils down to Razer still has some great mice and software didn't change that but Razer will lose revenue by those who object to cloud storage that's being shared to who knows. Dumb move on Razer's part because whether one agrees or disagrees it still alienates possible purchases from those who object. On the flip side it's hard for some to understand those who don't feel threatened and doesn't mind Synapse and what it offers for what they give up.

After two years of owning a Mamba which I recently handed down to the kids it's still going strong. The DeathAdder has proven to be old faithful for a lot of people and is a solid mouse. Razer sales will determine the outcome of Synapse longevity be rest assured. What that outcome will be may take a quarter before it surfaces on paper for the bean counters and corporate to make a decision.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RuSo*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1320903/razer-synapse-2-0-offline-saved-settings-and-login-for-offline-pcs
> For synapse 2.0 usage offline and profile saving


Razer Synapse 2.0 offline saved settings and login, for offline PC's

Great job figuring this out.


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## Dt_Freak1

if synapse is forced thru purchasing any other razer products then i shall be finding a new company to buy gaming products from. they have no right to spy on people!


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## boogdud

I asked them if there were going to be any offerings that did NOT use synapse and they informed me, that in fact all future razer products would be synapse 2.0 only (and they have been since the naga hex'ish timeframe). Not only that, they're going to retrofit it to all legacy products. They want everything running on synapse even old hardware.

I told them I wouldn't be purchasing any of their products until they abandon this bloated, invasive, gimmick-ware.


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## Blatsz32

i have the old Razer Naga drivers that don't require synapse, version 3.02. I could send it to you. I am able to config my mouse etc...I decided to keep it after i noticed this Synapse thingie


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## xXSebaSXx

Same thing here, but with the DeathAdder 3.5G Black. They tried forcing me to run Synapse, but I just got the legacy drivers. The mouse woks fine and I have the Razer control panel to set/change/save profiles and settings.

You should give the old Naga drivers a test... I think the Naga 2012 is nothing but some "cosmetic" thing. The HW inside should be the same.


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## boogdud

Actually I think people have tried the legacy drivers with the 2012 version and they didn't work. If they do, it would probably be the last mouse they made that would support legacy drivers because the naga hex, Ouroboros and Taipan don't even have any legacy drivers. They were all made after synapse and have never had any other drivers. It'll be this way going forward (including the new deathadder 4g when it comes out) unless they change their minds.


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## Sriracha

Seems like the only Razer product that isn't a victim of Synapse is the good old Abyssus.


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## ZareliMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *channelx99*
> 
> My suspisions are confirmed. Synapse 2.0's only purpose is to spy on you:
> *
> "User Generated Information" means any information made available to Razer through your use of the Software. Subject to the Privacy Policy mentioned above, you expressly grant Razer the complete and irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the User Generated Information and derivative works thereof in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind.
> By using Razer Synapse 2.0 ("Synapse"), the Subscriber agrees that Razer may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information. Razer may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Razer shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below.*
> The Synapse 2.0 software was not created to benefit customers in any way. It was a ploy to get into your computer and watch what you do and profit off this info.


Well that does make sense. They even removed the onboard memory on their newer mice.


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## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZareliMan*
> 
> Well that does make sense. They even removed the onboard memory on their newer mice.


False.

Rather just not viable for use.


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## FoxWolf1

Eww.

I really didn't need another reason not to buy Razer again, but I guess now I've got one anyway.


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## channelx99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blatsz32*
> 
> i have the old Razer Naga drivers that don't require synapse, version 3.02. I could send it to you. I am able to config my mouse etc...I decided to keep it after i noticed this Synapse thingie


I tried but they dont work unfortunately. Says "specific mouse" not detected. Looks like the Naga 2012 was built specifically for Synapse 2.0 as will all future mice.


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## one-shot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duox*
> 
> Yup if razer did not have a diver archive on their sote inwould not have bought the da black ed


I was going to guess English was not your first language, then I thought of the possibility of you learning to be proficient in just one language. OCN Professional Initiative. Please read it.


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## ranseed

I was actually considering getting a naga for an mmo, but this whole synapse thing is a huge turn off


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## Bojamijams

G600. Forget the Naga, the G600 is an improvement i nevery conceivable way.


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## nlmiller0015

Well im running the old driver on my deathader BE right now did they remove them or something?


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## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> Well im running the old driver on my deathader BE right now did they remove them or something?


Yes, they removed all of the legacy drivers. Luckily for some of the older mice you can find the drivers somewhere else. For anyone with a newer mouse you're stuck with syn_crap_se.


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## NotAgain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> Yes, they removed all of the legacy drivers. Luckily for some of the older mice you can find the drivers somewhere else. For anyone with a newer mouse you're stuck with syn_crap_se.


They're linked on the driver page for the DeathAdder Black Edition:
http://www.razersupport.com/index.php?_m=downloads&_a=view&parentcategoryid=237&pcid=154&nav=0,76,168,88,154

In fact most (if not all) of the old drivers are still available if you search.

http://www.google.com/search?q=allintitle:+naga+driver+site:razersupport.com&hl=en&tbo=d&as_qdr=all&rls=en&tbas=0&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:2010,sbd:1&filter=0

Change "naga" to the name of your mouse.


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## boogdud

Yeah looks like the BE is still up there. I wouldn't count on it being there very long. Also, like I said, any newer mice (naga hex, 2012, taipan, etc.) aren't going to have any legacy drivers, it's just synapse. Buy up any older models if you can find them!


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## VonJunzt

Hi guys, this stuff is getting richer still.

This is my first time on Overclocked. I'm not even here because I care about games. I don't. I do care whether the tech I buy empowers me or only makes me more dependent.

I'm here via boingboing.net. I found an item about this turd sandwich in the BoingBoing RSS feed. Hitting the link there brought me to the 404 page. Someone must have delivered a pig's head on Cory Doctorow's doorstep pronto, capeesh?

I'll get me another shaver.


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## Zbraw

Yup, i'm also new to overclock. I registered only to complain about this DRM ****.
i hope the Streisand effect will kick in soon and bring Razor down, i'll never buy another mouse from them.
How is that Boingboing is cencored by a private company?
(English is not my first language, be kind).


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## cpt-bones

Although I like the angry mob as much as the next guy I am going to play the Devils advocate on this one until I have proof which is why tonight I will be firing up wire shark and checking for myself. I own a naga epic and I won't say it has been flawless although I have had to reload the firmware a couple of times. I also own a tiamat 7.1 its not to bad.


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## HandGunPat

I'm hoping that my mamba dies for Christmas. That way I can buy a G700, I was going to get a Naga Epic but due to this BS I won't.


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## Dcode

Desiging a cloud based driver would be for two reasons:

1. Your incomprehensibly stupid
2. Your spying on customers

I really hope this bites Razer in the arse. They can do one as far as I am concerned.


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## MSim

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dcode*
> 
> Desiging a cloud based driver would be for two reasons:
> 1. Your incomprehensibly stupid
> 2. Your spying on customers
> I really hope this bites Razer in the arse. They can do one as far as I am concerned.


I agree with you, the only reason to waste money and resources maintaining a cloud server to save mouse/keyboard profiles is to data-mine customers, sell any info you collect to 3rd parties. You would think someone at Razer will point out how bad of a PR move this is.


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## Mikren420

After my Naga died (AGAIN) I said screw it and collected on my squaretrade warranty. They paid me out $73 for it + $5 more for allowing them to pay me with an Amazon.com giftcard.

I took that loot and bought me a Logitech g600. It's an awesome mouse, and the new drivers work really great for it! They don't require you to be online either.


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## murderbymodem

I honestly had to check to make sure I didn't oversleep and wake up April 1st, 2013. This is ridiculous...we now have DRM on hardware.


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## Droviin

Razer has released "Legacy Drivers" as of November 7th. I uninstalled Synapse 2.0 and installed the Legacy Drivers on my Windows 8 system. Not only do the drivers work on my system, but they also include the classic tray-icon with customization options. Furthermore, the EULA does not have the tracking clause that appeared in the Synapse EULA.


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## corhen

my Razer/Microsoft Habu is dying on me right now (plan to take it appart and clean the switches)... no chance i will be replacing it with another razer!


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## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Droviin*
> 
> Razer has released "Legacy Drivers" as of November 7th. I uninstalled Synapse 2.0 and installed the Legacy Drivers on my Windows 8 system. Not only do the drivers work on my system, but they also include the classic tray-icon with customization options. Furthermore, the EULA does not have the tracking clause that appeared in the Synapse EULA.


Only for older mice (in your case deathadder 3.5) which was established already. There are NO drivers besides synapse for any new model mouse. Unfortunately


----------



## dekkadekkadekka

First time poster, also found my way here via GiantBomb and Boingboing.

This is incredibly shady of them; but I've gotten around it by logging in once then blocking all outbound traffic for the software and the updater. It's not perfect but it will get the job done until I've burned this mouse into the ground through usage. Maybe I'm teaching y'all to suck eggs but here's a link to block it with Windows 7 Firewall. If you're on XP I think you're out of luck unless you use a third-party firewall. The applications you'll want to block are RzSynapse.exe and RzUpdateManager.exe:

http://www.trishtech.com/win7/block_a_program_in_windows_firewall.php

Block it after you've logged in once and you'll be good to go; my Synapse software shows a red icon permanently now with no loss of function, aside from cutting off Razer's snooping eyes and lust for data.


----------



## Benbass

Well, it confirms myself to continue to buy Logitech. :/


----------



## Lazorbeam

Holy crap, I was just about to pick up a Naga tonight after work.

G600 it is.

Razer fyi: you guys are ******ed.


----------



## Arizonian

This is being addressed right now on the main thread regarding this matter. A RazerCult popped in there and provided this *link* regarding Synapse 2.0

Quote:


> Synapse 2.0 works OFFLINE
> 
> One of the biggest misunderstandings is the equation of Synapse 2.0 to always-on DRM. It's a popular notion that anything requiring a login has DRM included in it, and this misconception is one that easily gets the community fired up. In this case however, it's incorrect.
> 
> Once registered, Synapse 2.0 works offline and never needs to be online again. So basically, a user creates an account, saves initial settings, and if there's no internet connection, it doesn't matter - settings are saved on the client PC and are not synced to the cloud. Synapse 2.0 works offline.
> 
> We understand that this still might be confusing. We will continue to take steps to clarify and to ensure that our users have the correct information (see below).


Edited to add since I'm still the last post:

There are many games and products that require registration sign up or product keys in order to play or use a product and this I could live with because I already do with many different accounts. At least now the option exist to do it offline afterward.

The current products coming out by Razer Ouroboros and Taipei are solid mice from the reviews and shouldn't be held back by software. I'm glad we got the response we were looking for regarding at the very least the 'option'.


----------



## Porpoise Hork

Thanks for posting this info.

I have hit about 18 or so of the most popular Razer products on Amazon.com with this one star review.

Quote:


> "This was taken directly from the Razer Synapse TOS agreement:
> 
> "User Generated Information" means any information made available to Razer through your use of the Software. Subject to the Privacy Policy mentioned above, you expressly grant Razer the complete and irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the User Generated Information and derivative works thereof in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind.
> 
> By using Razer Synapse 2.0 ("Synapse"), the Subscriber agrees that Razer may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information. Razer may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Razer shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below.
> 
> http://www.razerzone.com/synapse2/subscriber-agreement
> http://www.razerzone.com/synapse2/privacy-policy
> 
> Yes folks, to put it simply Razer Synapse 2.0 software is actively spying on you and collecting data on who knows what and they even tell you they are doing it their listed ToS. What's worse is they even say that they will probably sell it. Which I'm sure they are By the way.
> 
> You also cannot install and use any of their products what uses Synapse 2.0 with all its features without being forced to install the spyware program. If you do not have an active internet connection you cannot install Synapse 2.0 there is no way around this. Basically Razer's Synapse 2.0 software is always online and is spying on everything you do plus if you lose connection or their servers go down then you are unable to access your hardware configurations.
> 
> Purchase and install their products with extreme caution."


The more this gets put out the less people will (hopefully) be inclined to buy Razer products.

I have also tossed my Naga in the trash for the G600 as a direct result of Razer's DRM spyware.


----------



## boogdud

that's great.

....except when you restart your computer you have to log back in to get any of your custom settings.

At least this was the case a couple of weeks ago when I saw this suggestion from them. It's damage control, nothing more.

edit note: woops this went into the wrong thread... nothing to see here!


----------



## Dante003

Min-Liang Tang said that on facebook

I wanted to provide some further clarification on Synapse 2.0:

SYNAPSE 1.0 vs SYNAPSE 2.0

Razer was the first to recognize the need for gamers to save their mouse configurations and settings onboard their peripherals. To that end, we created Synapse 1.0, which utilized onboard memory to store settings inside Razer products. This ability has now become one of the de facto features used in gaming mice worldwide.

Over time, we realized that as firmware, profiles, macros and other settings stored in onboard memory became more complex, more memory space was required. On top of that, other features that we wanted to include, such as inter-device drivers and profile exchanging, were not possible with the Synapse 1.0 architecture.

To give gamers the same benefits provided in Synapse 1.0 and more, we invented Synapse 2.0. Instead of having mouse settings limited by the space in onboard memory, Synapse 2.0 allows gamers to now have almost unlimited space for their profiles and macros. Moreover, other new functionalities such as being able to interact with other peripherals on the same architecture (i.e. keymaps between mice and keyboards) are now possible. Now gamers are also able to easily import and export profiles with their friends.

Another benefit to Synapse 2.0 is that if you purchase an additional Synapse 2.0 mouse for another system, it will not have to set it up all over again; it will be instantaneously customized to one's stored settings. Such features would not be possible with Synapse 1.0.

We also believe in continuing to support our earlier products with software updates. We believe in providing additional value to our customers as opposed to only providing such features for our new hardware. For example, the Razer Naga MMO gaming mouse created with the Synapse 1.0 architecture was recently updated through Synapse 2.0 to include keymapping, unlimited profiles, and import/export functions. These updates would have taxed memory beyond the original capacity of the mouse using just Synapse 1.0. With Synapse 2.0, every Naga user can have his or her mouse upgraded directly from the cloud without having to go out and purchase another mouse or recreate macros and user-created content.

Synapse 2.0 offers these types of benefit and we're happy to add features to our products for dedicated gamers looking for continued value after purchase.

However, we recognize that there may be some users of legacy Razer products who prefer to use Synapse 1.0 drivers. While we will still be making these available (see below), we do not want to penalize the vast majority of gamers who want to see our new products and legacy products upgraded to the Synapse 2.0 platform.

Synapse 2.0 vs. DRM

Our products work perfectly out of the box. Unlike DRM games or other media that require an always-on connection, you can use any of our peripherals right out of the box, even if someone doesn't install Synapse 2.0, and whether a user is offline or online.

Synapse 2.0 provides for additional functionality in the form of cloud storage for settings, inter-device communications, etc. Once registered, Synapse 2.0 provides additional functionality of almost limitless memory in the cloud. It does the same with mapping physical functions, affording myriad options for an array of applications. The amount of information required to register the product is minimal. Again, we make a range of products that, to some degree or another, benefit from cloud-based functionality, but it is not a requirement for our products to work. There are great gamers out there that don't regularly use Synapse 2.0, which speaks to the inherent quality of our products.

Synapse 2.0 works OFFLINE

One of the biggest misunderstandings is the equation of Synapse 2.0 to always-on DRM. It's a popular notion that anything requiring a login has DRM included in it, and this misconception is one that easily gets the community fired up. In this case however, it's incorrect.

Once registered, Synapse 2.0 works offline and never needs to be online again. So basically, a user creates an account, saves initial settings, and if there's no internet connection, it doesn't matter - settings are saved on the client PC and are not synced to the cloud. Synapse 2.0 works offline.

We understand that this still might be confusing. We will continue to take steps to clarify and to ensure that our users have the correct information (see below).

Server Outages

Finally, as far as the Synapse 2.0 activation server goes, we realize that we have had intermittent issues with it due to server usage spikes and, most recently, because of Hurricane Sandy - not uncommon challenges with server-based functions, especially given the severity of the storm - and we're working on increasing server reliability.

We had an issue for four hours recently when users were unable to register for new Synapse 2.0 accounts. Current users of Synapse 2.0 were unaffected. We are working on new ways to keep these types of issues from occurring.

Steps to clarify the situation

1. Legacy or Synapse 1.0 drivers (for applicable legacy products) will be made available shortly on the Razer Support Site. We will continue to develop applicable Synapse 2.0 drivers for our other legacy products, as the vast majority of users of our products have been asking for Synapse 2.0 features. Again, if those products are already Synapse 1.0 supported, we will make both Synapse 1.0 and Synapse 2.0 drivers available to them.

All future Razer products will support Synapse 2.0 and other future platforms.

2. Manual Offline mode will be made available shortly. At this time, Synapse 2.0 works seamlessly between online and offline mode, and is unobtrusive to the user. If an internet connection goes down and if the user has enabled offline mode by checking the "stay logged in" box, Synapse 2.0 automatically goes into offline mode.

Through listening to our community we have added many new features to Synapse, and we have been working on putting in place a more robust manual offline mode for Synapse 2.0, letting users choose to go into offline mode with a click of a button. This functionality will be rolled into an upcoming update.

We value the feedback from the community and we hope the above statement helps to clarify any issues.


----------



## ASSEMbler

If the people in charge are that out of touch that they would ever think that this would be a good idea,
I have lost all faith in their brand.


----------



## boogdud

I can't believe they are actually trying to say that Synapse works offline. It does, as long as you install it, log in to synapse, change your settings AND NEVER RESTART YOUR COMPUTER AGAIN. If you have any custom settings at all, you MUST connect to synapse to get your profiles/settings.

That bs statement is nothing but pure damage control. They are getting hammered for this (and rightly so)


----------



## Porpoise Hork

That's nice Min-Liang Tang but you're full of it.

I'm almost tempted to make a facebook profile just to tell him that.


----------



## forestgnome

So you want to complain about spyware tracking... on facebook... the biggest data mining company on the web...

Who's full of it now?


----------



## Porpoise Hork

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *forestgnome*
> 
> So you want to complain about spyware tracking... on facebook... the biggest data mining company on the web...
> Who's full of it now?


Well yeah, there is that. If i were to make a profile it most certainly would not be genuine.


----------



## QuadDamage

u made front page of reddit bro!
Good job


----------



## splinterize

Somehow you made the front page of reddit. Congratulation.

And yeah, I agree that synapse is trash. I dont care that it require me to log it, it's just that it introduced a cursor lag with my deathadder.


----------



## frickfrock999

This thread is going to explode in 3...2..1...


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

This is completely hilarious.
I was just talking to a bunch of friends earlier, 2 hours ago I swear, about how I hate Razer and why I think they're pretty crappy.

So conversation moved on, and I look on reddit. 3rd result from the top of the page. I almost never go on reddit either. And I see Overclock.net
My heart is content.


----------



## hesho

thank god i am and forever will be a logitech user. This is crazy....


----------



## nlmiller0015

as long as they dont remove the legacy driver ill keep using my deathadder if they do im going to g400 or a zowie evo


----------



## MiriV

Razer products have been on a slippery slope for a while. Nail in the coffin imho.


----------



## d4rkr4in

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MiriV*
> 
> Razer products have been on a slippery slope for a while. Nail in the coffin imho.


This. There will still be fanboys and such, but it's pretty unacceptable to have software that has to have a connection to the internet 24/7 or else your settings are gone. I totally can believe that Razer is spying on users and selling customer info. Never buying razer in the future.


----------



## splinterize

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *d4rkr4in*
> 
> This. There will still be fanboys and such, but it's pretty unacceptable to have software that has to have a connection to the internet 24/7 or else your settings are gone. I totally can believe that Razer is spying on users and selling customer info. Never buying razer in the future.


EA does the same thing with origin, yet people continue to buy their games.

I dont think that people will just stop buying razer mouses.


----------



## Cpt.Jeff

Taking that into account, my recent Naga broke. I got an M90 in the mail, sent it back. Bought a G600. Decent shape and not bad comfort. Don't have the problem hitting the right shift. Then I bought a Naga 2012. Leagues beyond the other two. It had been only a few days since mine broke but when I picked it back up it felt great.

I can easily use it for the ARPGs having my skills binding to that numpad, its small and grippy enough to play any FPS at low DPI, and its super comfortable for when I want to play an indie game like Defender's Quest or FTL.

The G600 is nice but at the end of the day, the numpad is harder to use because of the ridges and you barely have any grip on the mouse if you play at low DPI.

So I am sitting here trying to talk myself out of sending the G600 back. The last naga only last around 18 months but the damn thing feels perfect.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *splinterize*
> 
> EA does the same thing with origin, yet people continue to buy their games.
> I dont think that people will just stop buying razer mouses.


It's a lot easier to buy another brand of mouse, you don't need a razer mouse to play a certain game that is a beloved franchise.


----------



## morrow

Why oh WHY does it seems corruption seeps into every facet of our lives these days?!?! I am just so ticked off because I bought my first Razer mouse (Deathadder Black Edition) a few months ago. Perhaps some of you can give me advice because i'm definitely done using this mouse and will most likely send it back. When I first got this mouse I tried the legacy driver but it didn't work well at all. Many problems, including my side buttons sticking ON after I clicked them once on a regular basis. Synapse made it work good, but I won't install EA Origins, so i'm definitely getting rid of Synapse and this mouse in protest. Their facebook page post was laughable. An "offline mode" doesn't cure ANY of the problem, let alone the moral reasoning against it.

Anyways, for like a decade I gamed with this mouse and the models it replaced:
http://www.logitech.com/en-us/mice-pointers/mice/5743

The problem is the laser/sensor on that mouse is junk, and other logitech mice with better internals just don't feel anywhere similar. I bought the Razer Deathadder Black Edition because it seemed like it would fit my grip/hold style, but unfortunately I dont like it very much and it makes my hand/fingers hurt after using it for a few hours. I've been looking for a better quality mouse that's similar to the one I linked, and the closes I can find is the Roccat Kone Pure which comes out this month. Does anyone have any other suggestions besides that? I appreciate it.


----------



## TheGlow

So far I've liked the Naga my friend gave me used. He had it for months and me a year now.
So much so I went and got a Black Widow ultimate. Still good.
Bought Naga 2012 on sale, and now Synapse time.
Besides all those issues, its the performance still. I compared, the naga and widow configurator apps running would utilize 15mb. Synapse sits at 60-75mb usually.
Also since I have a pending Widow firmware update, none of my macros and keybinds will work on the Widow. It's all disabled until I upgrade. I have read this on my forum/net browsing.
I'm now on day 11 of back and forth with tech support. I haven't mentioned a pending firmware update, nor have they yet.
I work in Tech support so I even replied with fixing some of their broken instructions, C:\Program Data\ doesn't exist in win7, theres no space. etc.
now I'm told it's been escalated on Tuesday, still no word.
Another thing I've noticed is since I can't bind to keyboard, let me utilize profile switching on the naga then to make up for lost buttons.
Auto profile switching on app launch now forces the game to minimize at launch.
I don't recall the default legacy naga configurator doing this.
So launch game, goes full screen for 5 secs, minimizes, then I have to back to task bar and click it up.
I can't count how many games I've played in the past that break when you alt-tab/windows key out. Trying to bring back up causing pauses, crashes, screen locks, etc.
I have to hit ctrl-shift-esc, wait a sec and hope task manager opened in the background since I cant see anything. type explo, to highlight explorer and then hit alt-e.
The average user isn't going to know how to perform all this. It's a challenge for me and I know what I'm doing.


----------



## Nethermir

i was considering getting this mouse but i am troubled by what op mentioned. i *need* to register to use the features of *my* expensive mouse? did razer mention this at the naga's box? of course razer can certainly do this since it is their product but they probably need to inform buyers about this tiny requirement.
Quote:


> Yes, you can use the mouse as plug and play with basic functionality if you choose not to make an account and activate your computer, but who pays $80 for a basic plug and play mouse? The reason people buy the Naga 2012 is the configurable buttons and to change the DPI, polling rate, set up macros and profiles along with everything else. Razer has no right to lock this away from customers who paid for these features. For the Naga 2012 mouse, there is no other offline drivers to revert to. Synapse 2.0 is your only option.


----------



## Bielijbog

You sparked an article on Ars!

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/11/why-the-hell-does-this-mouse-need-to-connect-to-the-internet/
Quote:


> That's relevant because an uproar against this service building this week seems to have originated from a forum post by a customer who purchased a Razer Naga gaming mouse, and apparently tried to set it up during one of the outages. The user writes:


----------



## end0rphine

This whole debate makes me think that this may, just _may_ be preliminary stages to re-enabling onboard memory saving in conjunction with the cloud based service (for more complex profiles or something *derp*). At least, I hope so..
I mean, Razer drivers have been really lackluster before becoming usable. And the mice still contain onboard memory..


----------



## TheGlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> This whole debate makes me think that this may, just _may_ be preliminary stages to re-enabling onboard memory saving in conjunction with the cloud based service (for more complex profiles or something *derp*). At least, I hope so..
> I mean, Razer drivers have been really lackluster before becoming usable. And the mice still contain onboard memory..


Remember, it works fine offline once you've set it up once. So either the mouse still has enough onboard or it's using the pc. Either way, the cloud is not necessary at all.
I loved my regular naga and blackwidow, but now Synapse is just taking a dump all over the place.
Right now it's using up 51mb in task manager. Compared to old about 8 from naga config and 7 from widow config.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheGlow*
> 
> Remember, *it works fine offline once you've set it up once*. So either the mouse still has enough onboard or it's using the pc. Either way, the cloud is not necessary at all.


*as long as you don't reboot after setting it up. Because once you reboot you have to log back into synapse to get your profiles all over again.

I'm going to test this again because they gave me the whole "it works if you just log in once" when I sent them an email about Synapse back in July, after complaining about synapse here and here, and found that it would work in "offline" mode, but only if you never restarted your computer, because once you did, you lost all your setting and had to connect back to the "razer cloud services" to get your profiles back. It seems they aren't stored on your computer at all (or weren't then).


----------



## RegalX

im just praying they keep legacy drivers for the DA and some of there keyboards . I have a feeling the drivers are going to lower the potential of the 4g


----------



## TheGlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *channelx99*
> 
> Gets even better. They finally replied to my support request through email about not being able to log in to their terrible software. I get an obviously prescripted response asking me if the keys on the mouse stick (like I spilled soda or something on it ), telling me to try a different usb port, and asking if I use a desktop or a pc. Nowhere did they acknowledge my issue about their server being down, why they require a log in and why I cant use their software offline.


Well I've had it a couple weeks and no reboots had me login.
Even uninstalled/reinstalled a couple times to test that offline install method. Anytime it said reboot I hit no and manually open RzSynapse.exe myself.
Only real issue I have no is Synapse wont let me assign/rebind keys on widow since a pending Firmware update is there.
I refused to update incase I wanted to roll back to the stand alone drivers with my original naga. Since they posted legacy drivers and the Widow is 1.05, the ones I had on hand were 1.04, so hoping these will be compatible after this firmware update.
I also dislike the lack of information about what firmware version is pending and a change log.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> *as long as you don't reboot after setting it up. Because once you reboot you have to log back into synapse to get your profiles all over again.
> I'm going to test this again because they gave me the whole "it works if you just log in once" when I sent them an email about Synapse back in July, after complaining about synapse here and here, and found that it would work in "offline" mode, but only if you never restarted your computer, because once you did, you lost all your setting and had to connect back to the "razer cloud services" to get your profiles back. It seems they aren't stored on your computer at all (or weren't then).


Post back and let us know if it stores even after reboot please. Much appreciated.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Post back and let us know if it stores even after reboot please. Much appreciated.


Well some good news it seems! It _does_ appear to keep your profiles after restarting. As long as you:

1. Have a connection to razer and set up a profile at least one time
2. Make sure you uncheck the box "Stay Logged In".
3. Once you set up this profile when you restart it will keep the profile you set up, however you will get a big annoying 'Razer Synapse 2.0' login screen when you reboot and it will ask for your credentials all over again.

I unplugged my machine between step 2 and 3, so when it asked me to log in I wasn't really connecting to their servers (since I didn't have an internet connection) and it took my credentials as if I had logged in to their servers and my profile remained on the mouse.

So it's obviously caching the profiles somewhere on the machine.

It does have the side effect of making the cursor lag a bit when you first start up, and have a big login screen but technically it stores them somewhere. It's pretty obtrusive looking and cumbersome but it is possible. Thing is, if you have a connection to the internet it's always going to log into their servers every time you log in, whether you want it to or not, I'm not a big fan of that.

I also really don't like that damage control facebook post that Min-Liang made, at best it's confusing and vague and at worst it's straight up dishonest. _"Our products work perfectly out of the box. Unlike DRM games or other media that require an always-on connection, you can use any of our peripherals right out of the box, even if someone doesn't install Synapse 2.0, and whether a user is offline or online"_, that's pure bull right there. Oh yeah, it works fine, with no ability to change the buttons, store profiles, change the dpi, etc (which he cleverly dodges in his response). Which is the entire reason you buy a $100 mouse in the first place.

They really just need to give new products the ability to use old drivers. Nobody wants to log in to a dialogue box to use their mouse, nor do they want to be pestered with a pop up every time they boot up their computer.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> Well some good news it seems! It _does_ appear to keep your profiles after restarting. As long as you:
> 1. Have a connection to razer and set up a profile at least one time
> 2. Make sure you uncheck the box "Stay Logged In".
> 3. Once you set up this profile when you restart it will keep the profile you set up, however you will get a big annoying 'Razer Synapse 2.0' login screen when you reboot and it will ask for your credentials all over again.
> I unplugged my machine between step 2 and 3, so when it asked me to log in I wasn't really connecting to their servers (since I didn't have an internet connection) and it took my credentials as if I had logged in to their servers and my profile remained on the mouse.
> So it's obviously caching the profiles somewhere on the machine.
> It does have the side effect of making the cursor lag a bit when you first start up, and have a big login screen but technically it stores them somewhere. It's pretty obtrusive looking and cumbersome but it is possible. Thing is, if you have a connection to the internet it's always going to log into their servers every time you log in, whether you want it to or not, I'm not a big fan of that.
> I also really don't like that damage control facebook post that Min-Liang made, at best it's confusing and vague and at worst it's straight up dishonest. _"Our products work perfectly out of the box. Unlike DRM games or other media that require an always-on connection, you can use any of our peripherals right out of the box, even if someone doesn't install Synapse 2.0, and whether a user is offline or online"_, that's pure bull right there. Oh yeah, it works fine, with no ability to change the buttons, store profiles, change the dpi, etc (which he cleverly dodges in his response). Which is the entire reason you buy a $100 mouse in the first place.
> They really just need to give new products the ability to use old drivers. Nobody wants to log in to a dialogue box to use their mouse, nor do they want to be pestered with a pop up every time they boot up their computer.


Thankyou for confirming this. +1 rep for your responding to my request and confirmation.









If I go back to wireless, I'm going with the Ourborous which is now one of the best. it would have been a shame to settle for less due to not having this offline option. I'm still confused with what data they might be mining but being able to stay offline makes it less intrusive.


----------



## Mygaffer

This got features on Ars Technica, awesome. Overclock.net is still on the forefront of consumer tech.


----------



## RegalX

nvm got it


----------



## maikon

Min-Liang Tan

We've heard concerns from the community that Synapse 2.0 requires an always-on internet connection to function. This is untrue. Synapse 2.0 works offline and does not need a persistent internet connection.

However, we hear you and to ensure that our users are absolutely clear about this, we will be updating Synapse 2.0 to allow users to go offline manually if they wish (see attached picture). Th
is will be rolled out soon with an upcoming update. And on top of that, we have also made available the Synapse 1.0 drivers for supported legacy products for those of you who prefer to continue using Synapse 1.0 instead of upgrading to Synapse 2.0.

On the flip side, we have also heard concerns that we may not continue upgrading our other legacy products to Synapse 2.0 as many of you have been waiting for the new features such as cloud saving or profile sharing for your legacy devices. We still plan to continue releasing the new Synapse 2.0 drivers for supported legacy products and the same options as above (i.e. to stay at Synapse 1.0 or upgrade to Synapse 2.0) will also be available.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maikon*
> 
> Min-Liang Tan
> We've heard concerns from the community that Synapse 2.0 requires an always-on internet connection to function. This is untrue. Synapse 2.0 works offline and does not need a persistent internet connection.
> However, we hear you and to ensure that our users are absolutely clear about this, we will be updating Synapse 2.0 to allow users to go offline manually if they wish (see attached picture). Th
> is will be rolled out soon with an upcoming update. And on top of that, we have also made available the Synapse 1.0 drivers for supported legacy products for those of you who prefer to continue using Synapse 1.0 instead of upgrading to Synapse 2.0.
> On the flip side, we have also heard concerns that we may not continue upgrading our other legacy products to Synapse 2.0 as many of you have been waiting for the new features such as cloud saving or profile sharing for your legacy devices. We still plan to continue releasing the new Synapse 2.0 drivers for supported legacy products and the same options as above (i.e. to stay at Synapse 1.0 or upgrade to Synapse 2.0) will also be available.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Is there a link to the source of this info for verification?


----------



## maikon

his facebook
http://www.facebook.com/minliangtan


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maikon*
> 
> his facebook
> http://www.facebook.com/minliangtan


Good news not only for Razer consumers who do like Razer products but for privacy advocates as well. I'm glad to see the company made the right decision reversing their original stand and giving us this confirmed offline option while maintaining mouse functionality & macros. I don't mind first time registration because I do it with every product in my household but beyond that....I digress.

Thank you Razer.


----------



## MSim

Only way i will touch a Razer keyboard/mouse is if they go back to the old way of allowing users to save profiles on the device. I don't want anything to do with kb/mouse software dialing home every chance it gets.


----------



## TheGlow

I just rebooted again myself and I don't have any popups or splash screens.
Razer support finally replied back about my Keyboard issue and said it shouldn't be acting that way, then asked if I have the latest 2.03 firmware.
That's a bit of a joke as the last firmware on their site was 1.08. Synapse doesn't even tell you what version you are on. It just says if theres a new one or not. Doesn't state what the new version is nor do they supply a change log of any sort.
I remember Razers sites "awesome" changelogs consisting of stuff as simple as, updated drivers.
Again, with 1.05 legacy being released, and my archived version was 1.04, I will assume it's safe to update firmware and still keep backwards compatibility with stand alone drivers.

Or not. Firmware updated, macro buttons still not working.

Looks like tonight I will need to totally remove synapse, bring my Naga from work back home, install all legacy drivers to confirm I am not smoking crack and the Black Widow macros function properly.
Then wait my standard 3 days for a Razer support response, and give them my 2 minute reply.


----------



## NotAgain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maikon*
> 
> his facebook
> http://www.facebook.com/minliangtan


This doesn't appear to address the problem.

I will not buy any mouse product that requires me to register an account to use it, whether it offers an offline mode or not. I should not need an account to use my mouse.


----------



## channelx99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maikon*
> 
> Min-Liang Tan
> We've heard concerns from the community that Synapse 2.0 requires an always-on internet connection to function. This is untrue. Synapse 2.0 works offline and does not need a persistent internet connection.
> However, we hear you and to ensure that our users are absolutely clear about this, we will be updating Synapse 2.0 to allow users to go offline manually if they wish (see attached picture). Th
> is will be rolled out soon with an upcoming update. And on top of that, we have also made available the Synapse 1.0 drivers for supported legacy products for those of you who prefer to continue using Synapse 1.0 instead of upgrading to Synapse 2.0.
> On the flip side, we have also heard concerns that we may not continue upgrading our other legacy products to Synapse 2.0 as many of you have been waiting for the new features such as cloud saving or profile sharing for your legacy devices. We still plan to continue releasing the new Synapse 2.0 drivers for supported legacy products and the same options as above (i.e. to stay at Synapse 1.0 or upgrade to Synapse 2.0) will also be available.


Its like he's putting a band-aid on a bullet wound...

What everyones been asking for is the option to use the software without having to register or activate anything or be online.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *channelx99*
> 
> Its like he's putting a band-aid on a bullet wound...
> What everyones been asking for is the option to use the software without having to register or activate anything or be online.


I feel in response to being forced to having an ALWAYS on internet connection it was addressed because we no longer do not. That's the facts despite anyone's animosity. So this point has become moot now that the option does exist.

Now as for the data mining when online that is another thread topic being discussed *HERE*.


----------



## channelx99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> I feel in response to being forced to having an ALWAYS on internet connection it was addressed because we no longer do not. That's the facts despite anyone's animosity. So this point has become moot now that the option does exist.
> Now as for the data mining when online that is another thread topic being discussed *HERE*.


I think you missed the point. We're still being forced to register an account and activate the mouse over the internet to get full use of what we paid for.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *channelx99*
> 
> I think you missed the point. We're still being forced to register an account and activate the mouse over the internet to get full use of what we paid for.


Well then the issue wouldn't be solely with Razer and might be for another thread topic because aren't there many products that require a first time initial registration for usage? Am I mistaken? But doesn't other companies do this?

Now that Razer has agreed to allow for an offline option while allow functionality I don't feel they are no worse than anyone else who imposes first time registration for usage.

Edited to add: BTW channelx99 you should feel good that your thread did motivate Razer with a response. I personally feel Razer at the very least met consumers at the middle of the road on this issue.


----------



## flamingoyster

Seems this thread has become quite (in)famous.

Obligatory toast.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Well then the issue wouldn't be solely with Razer and might be for another thread topic because aren't there many products that require a first time initial registration for usage? Am I mistaken? But doesn't other companies do this?


I really can't think of a single piece of hardware (mouse, keyboard, motherboard, hard drive, cpu, video card, monitor, speakers, etc. etc.) that I own where I've had to do this. It is unique to Razer as far as I can see.

Some have the _option_ to register your product when you install the drivers, but they are just links to their website and are completely optional (logitech for example). You can cancel out of it and go your merry way using your product _and_ all of it's features, even if you never register it.


----------



## TheGlow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> I really can't think of a single piece of hardware (mouse, keyboard, motherboard, hard drive, cpu, video card, monitor, speakers, etc. etc.) that I own where I've had to do this. It is unique to Razer as far as I can see.
> Some have the _option_ to register your product when you install the drivers, but they are just links to their website and are completely optional (logitech for example). You can cancel out of it and go your merry way using your product _and_ all of it's features, even if you never register it.


Exactly. Most devices will function 90% or more with windows detected drivers, or at least have a disc packed in with some drivers. they most likely will be outdated and maybe wont have newer features that wouldnt have been on advertised on the box.
Like synapse does add interdevice functioning. I could make a macro on the keyboard the left click spam, etc.
Little things like sound interesting. That would be something to push as its synapse only.
Right now all they shove in our face is CLOUD CLOUD CLOUD. I could care less about clouds.
Clouds bring rain, rain breaks electronics. Razer is proving this point.


----------



## NotAgain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Well then the issue wouldn't be solely with Razer and might be for another thread topic because aren't there many products that require a first time initial registration for usage? Am I mistaken? But doesn't other companies do this?
> Now that Razer has agreed to allow for an offline option while allow functionality I don't feel they are no worse than anyone else who imposes first time registration for usage.
> Edited to add: BTW channelx99 you should feel good that your thread did motivate Razer with a response. I personally feel Razer at the very least met consumers at the middle of the road on this issue.


I was under the impression that Synapse already worked offline, once you had already created an account with them and registered your mouse etc.

It seems like all they did was add a toggle for it.

This doesn't fix the issue of having to register an account with them to use your mouse in the first place. I can't think of anything I've _ever_ bought that requires me to register it before use.

I just don't understand the need for their cloud service at all. Your configuration used to be saved directly on the mouse.
It just seems like an excuse to bring in additional revenue from collecting user's data and selling it.


----------



## channelx99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Well then the issue wouldn't be solely with Razer and might be for another thread topic because aren't there many products that require a first time initial registration for usage? Am I mistaken? But doesn't other companies do this?
> Now that Razer has agreed to allow for an offline option while allow functionality I don't feel they are no worse than anyone else who imposes first time registration for usage.
> Edited to add: BTW channelx99 you should feel good that your thread did motivate Razer with a response. I personally feel Razer at the very least met consumers at the middle of the road on this issue.


I cant think of a single piece of computer hardware I own that required me to activate it before its fully usable. Going online to retrieve drivers because they arent in the box is one thing, but requiring activation and account creation for a piece of hardware that has no reason to be online is something entirely different.

As for my thread motivating Razer to do the right thing? I dont feel the original problem was ever acknowledged by Razer, and I dont exactly feel good about anything...

I made this thread out of frustration after being treated poorly by Razer after spending what was to me, a lot of money on a computer mouse. It didnt stop at them hanging up on me when I tried to get help over the phone. I tried emailing them several times about the issue and it took several days to get a reply from them finally. Yet when I wrote a poor review of the mouse online at Amazon, they literally had someone reply to that within 15 minutes to save face. When I finally did get an email response days later they sent me a prescripted email asking me to check if I spilled anything on the mouse to make the keys stick and other trouble shooting steps that had absolutely nothing to do with my problem whatsoever. They later refused to admit there was a problem with Synapse 2.0 and bluntly said if I didnt like it return the mouse, which I ended up doing. Its to the point where even if they did a 180 and finally came out and admitted they screwed up and release offline only drivers for their products it wouldnt matter. They lost me as a customer permanently.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NotAgain*
> 
> I was under the impression that Synapse already worked offline, once you had already created an account with them and registered your mouse etc.
> It seems like all they did was add a toggle for it.
> This doesn't fix the issue of having to register an account with them to use your mouse in the first place. I can't think of anything I've _ever_ bought that requires me to register it before use.
> I just don't understand the need for their cloud service at all. Your configuration used to be saved directly on the mouse.
> It just seems like an excuse to bring in additional revenue from collecting user's data and selling it.


See that's where this fine line between this discussion and the other thread regarding data mining IF your online in this *POST*. Don't want to derail either thread of it's subject.

The subject on this thread is directly regarding 'having to be online' in order to use it's functionality. So Razer receded their first stance and now met consumers half way where 'after' you register with Razer it's OK to go offline and use Synapse 2.0.

I guess I never think twice about registering any of my products. I'd agree it feels forced if the only way to use it offline is to register. That's what it's boiling down to as it stands currently. IF after initial registration I'm offline, including reboots and Synapse 2.0 macros are still functional then I'm feeling better about using it. Since most MMO players do have online access anyway, a one time registration is more of a nuisance than anything else.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *channelx99*
> 
> I cant think of a single piece of computer hardware I own that required me to activate it before its fully usable. Going online to retrieve drivers because they arent in the box is one thing, but requiring activation and account creation for a piece of hardware that has no reason to be online is something entirely different.
> As for my thread motivating Razer to do the right thing? I dont feel the original problem was ever acknowledged by Razer, and I dont exactly feel good about anything...
> I made this thread out of frustration after being treated poorly by Razer after spending what was to me, a lot of money on a computer mouse. It didnt stop at them hanging up on me when I tried to get help over the phone. I tried emailing them several times about the issue and it took several days to get a reply from them finally. Yet when I wrote a poor review of the mouse online at Amazon, they literally had someone reply to that within 15 minutes to save face. When I finally did get an email response days later they sent me a prescripted email asking me to check if I spilled anything on the mouse to make the keys stick and other trouble shooting steps that had absolutely nothing to do with my problem whatsoever. They later refused to admit there was a problem with Synapse 2.0 and bluntly said if I didnt like it return the mouse, which I ended up doing. Its to the point where even if they did a 180 and finally came out and admitted they screwed up and release offline only drivers for their products it wouldnt matter. They lost me as a customer permanently.


Well I can understand your frustration from your experience and as a consumer you can decide accordingly. Regardless of your choice, you did help those of us who do like and use Razer products if not but a small victory. Any company that recedes orignal stance on a heavily invested software has more than admitted it was a wrong choice from a business stand point of view without saying a word.


----------



## Nethermir

im with channelx99. for me i do not want to register just to get the features of the mouse that i already paid for. installing their bloatware for drivers is fine but i do not see any reason why i need to register. how big is the profile anyway? why not store it in the computer?

for some people registration may not be a big deal but to me it is such a big thing. i got my naga sitting at my desk, havent registered yet and i also havent tried configuring it. if this asks me to register or connect to the internet at any point, it goes back to the store lol.


----------



## TheGlow

This auto profile switching is wonky. I retried and it didn't cause minimizing over 6 tests, different games, etc.
Then later on it started again.
The kicker is I launched dota2, so it full screened, then minimized to apply my dota2 profile.
But then the laughs start because I set explorer.exe as my default profile, so the minimizing to desktop then triggered the default profile to reenable.
So when I clicked dota2 to full screen, bam, it minimized again to apply the profile and you can guess what happened.
it seems to take 2-5 secs for the explorer.exe to be picked up, and it seems I have to actually be clicking or sitting idle at the desktop.
I can't just alt-tab to firefox or a steam window, that doesn't count as explorer and wont trigger the switch.

So when this minimizing to desktop madness starts, I have 2-3 secs to catch it and click dota2 before it reapplies the explorer.exe profile and causes the minimizing loop.


----------



## Shmerrick

DRM on a mouse? What?


----------



## zulk

I think we should boycott razer products till they fix this driver **** up.
I really really hate synapse 2.0.. Its more like synapse .5


----------



## MONVMENTVM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zulk*
> 
> I think we should boycott razer products till they fix this driver **** up.
> I really really hate synapse 2.0.. Its more like synapse .5


Unfortunately this wouldn't be an easy task to accomplish in a way that we would reach any significant numbers. The majority of their customers probably have no idea of what the deal with synapse 2.0 is and probably some don't even care.


----------



## Gnef

Spyware or not, I'd just like the damn thing to work. My ouroboros sleeps, I lose my DPI settings. When the PC reboots, the mouse appears to be working at 8200 DPI until the Synapse 2.0 software starts back up (Several year old WIn 7 install that is BLOATED, so that takes some time).

Is there a software alternative? Right now, my needs are simple - about 2500 dpi and a couple of mouse click macros.

The ouroboros is okay (looks better than it works right now), but I'll go back to a Corsair M90 or a microsoft wired laser mouse if I have to go into Synapse everytime I let my mouse sleep. I haven't tried going offline with it - sounds like a lot of fun...


----------



## morrow

So where's the driver update they mentioned months ago that would enable an offline mode? It didn't update for me yet.


----------



## TheGlow

Update came out about 3 days ago.


----------



## Ice009

My store has now got the DA 2013 in stock. Should I go ahead and buy it? I've been waiting a few weeks to get this mouse now, but some of the issues have put me off and I am not as keen as I was. Is it confirmed that you can install synapse, adjust your settings and the last profile is saved in the mouse? or do you always have to have Synapse installed?


----------



## morrow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ice009*
> 
> My store has now got the DA 2013 in stock. Should I go ahead and buy it? I've been waiting a few weeks to get this mouse now, but some of the issues have put me off and I am not as keen as I was. Is it confirmed that you can install synapse, adjust your settings and the last profile is saved in the mouse? or do you always have to have Synapse installed?


You always have to have Synapse installed. If I were you i'd stay away from Razer products. Several other companies make great mice. I just got one from Roccat.

I'm curious though; what improvements does the DA 2013 model have?


----------



## maikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *morrow*
> 
> You always have to have Synapse installed. If I were you i'd stay away from Razer products. Several other companies make great mice. I just got one from Roccat.
> I'm curious though; what improvements does the DA 2013 model have?


this is not true. im not sure how many times i need to repeat it. But you only need to install synapse one time to do your configuration such using different dpi and or turning off thelightning. once you done that just uninstall synapse and it will work as plug n play. I tried this on several differnet computers with no synapse and it does save the settings you choose.

So yes deathadder 2013 DOES have onboard memory


----------



## Ice009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maikon*
> 
> this is not true. im not sure how many times i need to repeat it. But you only need to install synapse one time to do your configuration such using different dpi and or turning off thelightning. once you done that just uninstall synapse and it will work as plug n play. I tried this on several differnet computers with no synapse and it does save the settings you choose.
> So yes deathadder 2013 DOES have onboard memory


Thanks for the info. I will definitely get one then.

What the default DPI setting of the mouse?


----------



## postlapsaetia

Do you think that the new Krait would also work like this?


----------



## brgil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ice009*
> 
> Thanks for the info. I will definitely get one then.
> What the default DPI setting of the mouse?


1800


----------



## hiccup

you sure, someone mentioned 6400dpi ?


----------



## Skpe

Synapse kills my DA's. I thought it was a problem with my old DA original 1800dpi, but just got the DA2013 and it's the same problem with that too.
Download synapse -> Install. No problem there. Create & login to an account. It's then after 5 minutes of it installing drivers, the Razer common driver (takes a long time), the cursor stops responding completely, lights stay on.
After that driver install completes, I'd have to plugin a non Razer mouse (got a Xai handy) to use the mouse - it just shows the Razer program saying it's waiting for a razer device to be plugged in. Doesn't work with 2 that I've got.
The problem solves itself when I uninstall the driver, the mouse immediately starts to work again, which feels like 1800DPI, 500hz. Those settings are okay, so, I'm not that desperate to fix it yet, but, I'd like to be able to install drivers and use 1000hz.
Anyone seen this problem? :| Win 7 x64 user. It used to be quite frustrating on the old DA, since, it also prevented me from ever being able to install old mouse drivers to that mouse, effectively bricking it since it was stuck on a driftcontrol firmware and not the DPI that I wanted.


----------



## Eduardv

Guys Synapse 2.0 is total crap,check this out:

I have a Dathadder 3.5G and a Microsoft Comfort Curve Keyboard 2000.

It doesn't matter if you have a razer keyboard or not,Synapse will force the keyboard drivers on your system even if you dont have a Razer keyboard!

Anyway to fix this?


----------



## TheGlow

I'm not sure if the death adder has extra buttons but this is normal for a Naga as it is also a keyboard due to the keypad.


----------



## Assirra

It got 2 side buttons you can program to whatever you want.


----------



## verbatim

I just installed this software after having the mouse for 3 years. I was disgusted at having to make a account but did so because I need the functionality for something. It copies the email and password straight to the log in screen after the account is created. Guess what? invalid log in. I cant use it at all or reset password or anything. Screw U RAZOR!!!!!


----------



## Dt_Freak1

im still running an older driver on my lachesis(2) and not an issue ever having to deal with synapse. hahaha screw you razer. if synapse ever hits my system ill be the first to chuck the mice out the window and go buy something else.


----------



## Credo1970

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> I really can't think of a single piece of hardware (mouse, keyboard, motherboard, hard drive, cpu, video card, monitor, speakers, etc. etc.) that I own where I've had to do this. It is unique to Razer as far as I can see.
> 
> Some have the _option_ to register your product when you install the drivers, but they are just links to their website and are completely optional (logitech for example). You can cancel out of it and go your merry way using your product _and_ all of it's features, even if you never register it.


Not entirely true. If you're playing in windows and mac worlds...Your motherboard out of the box has SLIC technology (unless you've hacked it somehow, or live in a country that doesn't allow it, etc.) in it that binds to your OS and locks you in a contract. Unless you're going out of your way to be stealthy, running only linux, bsd, or something along those lines with a commercial free installation...cracking stuff or using aliases to register it...AND running around using covert or public wi-fi networks exclusively...it's all tied to you anyway. Almost all of the hardware mentioned, the first thing 90% of the people out there do is log in to the homesite to plug in their warranty info and see if there are firmware and driver updates before they go to the trouble to try to use it. Windows itself, every version since XP grabs service packs and updates regularly in its default state...and you only get a limited time to register it before it locks you out and begs for a key of some sort. More and more devices don't even come with an install disk anymore...it's lets them chip a few cents off the price and avoid laying off another ten employees this month. Quite alot offer a choice between an OEM type version that comes with no disks or docs at all, or you can opt for the full retail that has all that with more lenient licensing at a higher price. I haven't had a printer in over 10 years that didn't install pretty in depth, all but mandatory proprietary drivers with online updater's and spoolers constantly running in the background if you you want to unlock the bulk of their features....2/3rds of them these days don't even try to print till they go grab a live network printer plugin of some sort with every job.

Why would you not immediately register any piece of tech from the get-go anyway? ESPECIALLY one so dependent on software. What can these companies do to harm you based on the minimal information it takes to register a product? Seriously...be far more afraid of your government and the mega corps that pipe water and electricity into your home each day. Now they can hurt you if they really feel like it. Those guys are even afforded the power to garnish your pay check before it's even printed! Go cry about them........

1. The drivers/firmware and disks that come with things have usually been updated/improved and you'll want to check all that anyway. Yes, the majority of places out there that sell things and provide drivers want in the least an email address before they let you download. I've not yet acquired a single piece of smart/configurable hardware (motherboards, dvd drives, smart mice/keyboards, printers, etc.) that did not have driver, firmware, or UI updates that fixed 'major' issues' from its out of the box state. Even my cheap brandless mp3 player got more value and features (ogg support and a few other pretty significant improvements) when it let it go online for 2 minutes!

2. It locks in your warranty information and speeds up any potential RMA issues that may unfold if you ever need to use it. It's pretty easy to misplace receipts and stuff...and registering properly often makes receipt loss a non-issue. ALWAYS register your stuff.

3. If there are any product recalls, class action suits, or any other notifications or entitlements on your behalf they can promptly notify you and you will not miss out. Over my lifetime I've gotten quite a few nifty new products in the mail because I bothered to register them (something was recalled or otherwise corrected by the company). Unless I were to spend hours a day browsing recall ledgers for all the stuff I buy, I'd probably have missed out on most of them.

4. Why is it that folks have no problems with a generic driver auto downloading from a Microsoft server? (and if you think it doesn't know who you are just because you don't 'log in' you are highly mistaken...Unless of course you are using pirated/cracked software or registered with fake information and are stealing bandwidth from a different wi-fi every 3 minutes), or in using the worlds worst 'snooping services' thousands of times a day (everything from google to facebook)

5. Many registration processes offer tons of 'optional' perks. News letters. Instructional courses. Invites to tech shows. Samples of products to evaluate. Discounts for future orders...etc.

It seems to be okay for mega corps that make 50,000 products, and also own utilties, control the airwaves, media centers, and push around entire populations do this stuff by the second...but if a tiny little gadget company that focuses on a very tiny super specialized market wants to get just enough info to have some impact on gaming markets...they're EVIL snoopers?

They also refuse to acknowledge that the 'other' mega companies that might not collect information from you for your mouse or keyboard don't need to, because they've already sold you a TV, a dish or cable network plan, broad band service with a dozen email accounts, a computer, a monitor, a cell phone, washer and dryer, half the bits and pieces installed in your car, and probably even your life insurance policy...and they already know more about you than you do! Here you have one small company that's only been around a short while that only wants you to set up a simple account on a tiny network that's only dealing with gaming profiles and keyboard layouts is supposed to be phishing for illegit data to 'sell'?

I bet some of the people complaining the loudest about 'Razer snooping' play MMORPGs that put about 50 torrets swapping out info (you're paying them $40 a month to distribute software and stuff for them) that has nothing to do with 'your game' on your system, and snoop everything you do, PLUS they'll install something like a free version of Curse that spams ads and records everything you do, while they hit 30 game cheat sites in a day that are infamous for spreading key loggers so they can hack your toons and sell off your little characters loot. Then when it all crashes....who will they blame? The smallest, most specialized, and least equipped/poised to 'cheat/steal' company in the field. Giving Razer, logitech, or anyone else your email address is nothing compared to the truly intimate personal data and interactions these games are often mining about you, your attitudes, character, personality, etc.

If you really are using all pirated stuff...or otherwise have a need for being stealthy on the net (if you need a 'secure' pc...don't install ANYTHING non enterprise and not designed for high security on the system...especially a 'game')...if you wanted, you could do the same cheat with your mouse as with Windows, and register it to an alias or something, but like with Windows, you'd possibly be forgoing a bunch of rights and privileges on parts of the contract that are actually in YOUR favor by using false information to register. Contracts do work two ways....there are benefits there for YOU as well as for them.

I do not understand the major issue with a one time login to start using all the advanced features of the mouse. I really don't see this company as being poised or equipped to be major data miners/sellers, so a few in this thread have really gone off the charts with baseless accusations about Razer wanting to 'snoop' people for purposes beyond enhancing their gaming experience, and of course appeal to your forking over a bit from your wallet for their goods and services. As for sharing gaming info and experiences...it's what they do for a living! Of course they're going to learn from it all, but more importantly, their users get to learn and share form each other...and from the company as well. It's not a 'one way deal' that only benefits Razer. Of course they want to know, and I'm sure you can opt out of 'sharing' any of 'your knowledge/secrets' about how you use and set up your mouse.

I agree that there should be controls to block it from going online and storing stuff on the cloud if you wish (good PR move), and that it definitely needs to be able to work easily and efficiently when folks aren't connected. I agree that it's nice to be able to flag things not to run at boot unless you really need them...and those options will indeed come in more obvious forms if they aren't already there (Open your services manager and disable the stuff you're not using if it's really that much in the way). At the same time you have to realize that the gaming desktop may not be an eternal standard out there...people are moving to smaller cloud based technologies and Razer has to have some long range ideas/plans, and try to get a foot and keep it in those emerging technologies (which will also impact how games are designed, sold, shared, etc.). Remember...this is a small company that makes a hand full of products, as compared to the others that do hundreds, or even thousands of them! They can't stay afloat forever just making hardware in an ever shrinking yet growingly increasingly competitive desktop gaming market.

The company has bent over backwards to correct some pretty obvious mistakes on their part, yet folks keep ignoring everything they say and keep posting this same stuff over and over simply to slander one of the most reputable names in the entire gaming industry...with by far one of the cleanest international records in existence when it comes to being sued or otherwise accused of intent to harm or take advantage it's consumer base.

1. They explained the goals and benefits of the new software architecture. I saw FAR more planned for the consumer in this than being 'snooped'. From what I read earlier in this post, it is a pretty significant LEAP that will certainly be of value to many consumers (kinda like going from a 32 bit OS to a 64bit one in that you can see and use more memory at a time and do more with it...that it allows more easily porting various things from device to device and place to place) 1. unlimited profile memory. 2. portable profiles across multiple devices. 3. A FAR more flexible development platform that will let them roll out more powerful and flexible features to their ENTIRE range of products more quickly, and cost effectively. 4. Ability to share profiles with friends (for a GM that's a BIG help literally worth hours of time a day!). 2.0 really does seem to offer alot of amazing possibilities that nothing else on the market offers just yet.

2. Legacy drivers ARE available where possible. As for them trying to strap an anchor on future product lines to make them all 1.0 backwards compatible...it just doesn't make sense for mice and keyboards....while these things aren't 'cheap' from a consumer perspective, they're not exactly pricey super computers being implemented in massive enterprise situations that need long term support/service either. None they less, they have promised to try to keep older products up to date and make 2.0 run on them as an option.

3. They admitted to a mistake in their software agreement contracts and promptly changed that at the request of their user base while pretty much apologizing on bended knee to anyone that cared for the blunder. The wording was pretty bad in that contract, but now it's fixed.

4. They immediately began tweaking 2.0 even more to suit the needs, tastes, and demands of their users.

Razer does take some pretty big risks with products and ideas at times, but in today's markets with dozens of great options out there getting ever cheaper and cheaper...competition is fierce and that's what it takes to try to stay in the game. They win some, they loose some...but if they don't try these ideas and put stuff on store shelves for people to try out in the wild...the competition sure as heck will chip away at what small profit margins there are in the markets to be had in those 'status quo' product lines that play it safe and don't try new ideas. After all, Razer did ask gamers of all sorts out there what they wanted or thought would be cool, and are trying to provide it at a reasonable price point. It's pretty obvious that they've tried to find things gamers ask for that you can't already find in a dozen other products out there and see if they can successfully make it and sell it.

It doesn't always work so well early on...but you can bet your bottom dollar that all the competition is sitting back waiting to copy the stuff Razer takes risks and flack for researching and trying in the marketplace (while they continue to remind people and compare their brand new 'copied' stuff with the issues Razer had and fixed 5 product generations ago).

Now I do understand that a part that doesn't work for you or do what you need is simply not acceptable.

I do believe (if I read correctly) that they offered to refund your money. If you're not happy with the device and don't like they way they currently have to support it, there's not much else they can do for you at that moment. It's obvious to me that this company does listen to people, and tries to give them what they want as soon as possible.

I've seen them try to explain that here in this post at least twice, and more in other places concerning the 2.0 software. Bad reviews are fine as well, but simply ranting a bunch of nonsense over and over about company ethics...that no other company in the world has servers that you need to log into to get maximum functionality out of their product(s) is pretty close to asinine.

The razer way of doing software isn't going to be for everyone, but it is unique, and if it works as they're planning for it to work...it's going to have a BIG impact on gaming interfaces, and it will indeed be for the better.

I've owned 3 Razer products and used the hell out of them since 2009. They haven't been 'perfect' as there were some issues with my very first Naga (motherboard firmware...so not totally Razer's fault...the thing worked in fine in 4 out of 5 computers here that I plugged it into). Otherwise the Naga has been amazingly responsive, tough, and with a wipe and cleaning it still looks like new. Parts do eventually wear out, my 3 year old Lycosa keytops (possibly the worst product Razer has ever made...and it's been a fine performing keyboard for my uses, and has held up as well as anything else 'backlit' that I've ever had from that price-range) looks like hell (the sweat in my hands eats up everything it touches, not just Razer keyboards) and I've replaced a few keytops before, but every one still works as good as new...so I have darn well gotten more than my money's worth out of them.

I keep looking at new keyboards....but this one just won't die! Maybe I'll grab something with Cherries in it here pretty soon.....maybe a Blackwidow stealth, or maybe something else. For me, the cloud will be an advantage even tho' there are better raw cherry keyboards out there for less cash. Why a Razer among all those mech choices, some with superior NKRO and aesthetics/looks? If you're into more social games with lots of people, and you need to gear up an entire guild or just enjoy playing with 'the newbies' and helping them get going....well....using the 'cloud' stuff to communicate about or exchange profiles and data sets is a really nice 'feature' and right now, no one else has it yet!


----------



## Omega215d

To be honest Synapse 2.0 seemed to be well behaved and pretty light when I installed it to change the settings on my Deathadder 2013. It's as unobtrusive as Logitech's LGS but I don't need Razer software to run in the background to keep my mouse settings unlike the G400. Of course I don't like signing up* just to use a driver and I dislike any cloud based services but once I dialed in my settings Synapse was taken right off.

*Already had a login as my Blackwidow needed Synapse to use the macro settings.


----------



## Credo1970

[delete me]
Sorry, still learning how to get my posts in the right place here.


----------



## Credo1970

[delete me]
oops, posted to the wrong place again, edited to move...sorry...new to the forum.


----------



## Credo1970

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Omega215d*
> 
> To be honest Synapse 2.0 seemed to be well behaved and pretty light when I installed it to change the settings on my Deathadder 2013. It's as unobtrusive as Logitech's LGS but I don't need Razer software to run in the background to keep my mouse settings unlike the G400. Of course I don't like signing up* just to use a driver and I dislike any cloud based services but once I dialed in my settings Synapse was taken right off.
> 
> *Already had a login as my Blackwidow needed Synapse to use the macro settings.


Yep...reasonable indeed.

It's not so much the 'driver' part you're messing with in Synapse. That's the software that lets you customize the thing...leds, macros, sensitivity, lighting, etc.
Most all mice/keyboards with bindable keys, media functions, lighting options, are going to have this kind of software (the exception being some of the high end mechanical boards that have all that stuff as key combos or buttons in firmware...but it's pretty much something you can't change or mess with as a user on those...you punch some buttons and it does it).

If you really want, for many models, and you only use the mouse with one setting...you can probably set it up then uninstall the extra software.

If you don't want to uninstall it but just don't use it that often...go into your windows services and disable the parts you don't need till you need them again...as you would any other software that installs services to run at boot. The 'drivers' themselves should still work just fine and for models with onboard memory your settings should be remembered.


----------



## Credo1970

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eduardv*
> 
> Guys Synapse 2.0 is total crap,check this out:
> 
> I have a Dathadder 3.5G and a Microsoft Comfort Curve Keyboard 2000.
> 
> It doesn't matter if you have a razer keyboard or not,Synapse will force the keyboard drivers on your system even if you dont have a Razer keyboard!
> 
> Anyway to fix this?


A multi-button mouse, especially if has more than 3 standard buttons, is often half keyboard (maybe even using a chipset from a keyboard). I.E. half mouse, half keyboard...hence two drivers (or one combined one that might be named keyboard, or mouse in all your windows sys config stuff).

Case in point...
If I take a razer naga and plug it into a brand new windows machine, and do not install any razer drivers at all...period, windows will go find a generic usb driver, and a generic keyboard driver (the naga has a ton of buttons/keys on it...pretty much a full numberpad). Depending on how I have a little switch on the bottom of the Naga, it'll either bind all those 'extra buttons' to function keys, or to the number keypad. Normal mouse buttons and wheels are usually treated as part of a mouse, but it's possible they might do it on a keyboard driver for whatever reasons (or even give you a choice via switches, firmware, or other software tweaks).

So depending on what type of mouse you have this is terribly normal. You might also see them merge it all into one 'keyboard' driver at some point (at least in name on the windows hardware reports). Under the hood, it's all going to be nearly the same and in higher level languages/formats where they store the information holding your profiles...probably in a simple format like xml, html, or something along those lines. They can tack pretty much any UI on top of that software engine they want for various products. Does this make sense? One super engine...many products...just some profile definitions and then add a skin that goes with the device.

One of the central points of Synapse 2.0 is that all of the profiles from all of the various devices they make are somewhat portable and will be even moreso in the future. I.E. you could pull key bindings or macro sets from your razer keyboard and put them on your razer mouse keys easily, or vice verse, and so forth. It goes even further than this...you could even swap macros, layouts, and bindings with other users of different model razer stuff. With that in mind, it starts to make sense that you might see drivers that you don't think are necessary showing up in the system config stuff. It might even say keyboard deep under the windows hood, but actually be controlling a mouse.

I.E. you play a mmorpg and are in charge of the healers in a raid. Today you have 25 players from various classes to manage on the healing duties of a 200 man raid. You've been given a strategy by the GM that will work better if your healing team has some macros and key bindings handy. In fact, some of your healers need a slightly different setup than the rest...so you sure don't want to have to spend all day teaching them what macros to bind. With software like this, you could store and share your profiles, and anyone with a razer mouse or keyboard could grab them prebuild off your profile and stick them on whatever razer gadget or key they want (doesn't have to be the same model or even device as yours...one might want it on the keyboard, another on the mouse...etc.). As the platform advances they'll probably also implement some quick view features so that those with non razer stuff could at least pull it up and see what the macro or binding does so they can build their own...it's possible that someday that it won't matter what brand devices you have...you could jump on the cloud and swap macros and layouts across brands and models! At the end of the day...with the Synapse concept you're one more step closer to making a task that can sometimes take hours of raid 'setup' time to communicate and implement...into a 3 minute 'grab it and go' scenario.

This sort of thing will be a dream come true when it fully matures for people who play mmorpg, or any kind of team PVP stuff where strategies, macros, and keybindings need to be quickly exchanged between team mates. A few games out there are even 'trying' to build these abilities into the games themselves at a great deal of developer time and money. If a standard comes along that does all this for them...it lets players choose what they prefer, and the game dev team can spend more time and money on content and less on UI headaches. Meanwhile, guild leaders currently have to spend a great deal of time hashing this stuff out beforehand, and attempting to host it on their own websites for their guilds. If their act isn't together...players get frustrated and leave! Some of these raids can involve a couple of hundred people...so the easier they can make it to do setups and strat preps...the more people will stick around and play....and have a good time (waiting for instructions and figuring them out can be a real drag...more time playing...less time setting up junk is always a welcome thing ).

Long range, this might even be applicable across different brands of mice and keyboards as well...who knows. It's a great idea for many many types of games.

With that in mind, a multi-button mouse is basically a mouse driver and a keyboard driver combined.

So, one or two low level drivers that have mastered their chosen chipsets in theory could run the whole range of devices simply by taking on pretty easy to develop (for them and for us users) high level user interfaces.

So it would make sense if you are seeing a keyboard driver of some sort.


----------



## Credo1970

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MONVMENTVM*
> 
> Unfortunately this wouldn't be an easy task to accomplish in a way that we would reach any significant numbers. The majority of their customers probably have no idea of what the deal with synapse 2.0 is and probably some don't even care.


The majority of their users probably know what it's like to sit around in a 200 man raid all night waiting for the GMs to explain what keybindings and macros are needed for the strat and have been asking for features like this for years. Perhaps it's not features that are an issue for your type of gameplay, but when they get this just right, it's going to be a major improvement for many gamers. It's also a very viable market for them to chase and appease...a very significant portion of their customer base pays from $20 to hundred, or even thousands of bucks a month to play multi-player games that demand large teams, and a great deal of organized social networking. The games themselves are entrenched in cloud technology, and have foreseeable possiblities of being implemented in all sorts of devices beyond the 'high end desktop'. So it's more than just mice and keyboards....it's 'people', 'ideas', 'competing standards', and the potential for future interfaces that make keyboards and mice look like things from the stone age.

Cutting edge games are starting to have OPEN environments, where the boundaries are endless and thousands of people can play together towards like or opposing objectives. Users can even invent environments, communities, economies, currencies viable in real world applications, and gaming objectives of their own. I.E. set up your own server and plug into the grid...or rent a sim from somewhere else on the cloud and plug it into larger metaverses. In the not so distant future actual individual gamers will not only be able to set up entire sims of their own imagination...but also develop their own user interfaces (touch, voice, breath, kinetic, bio-rhythm, etc.) to go with it all (without having to have a PHD in low level binary programming).

Companies that don't keep their eye on this will be left in the dust. In ten years...we might not even be using 'mice and keyboards' anymore...so it's more to it than just having the best quality piece of hardware for the best price (while that stuff is indeed very important). When a company has limited resources to work with, deadlines, supply chains, contracts, and bills to pay...they have to take some risks and try to be first at some things that no one else is doing just yet. Call it gimmicks if you like, but it's actually long range survival.

I do hate that it comes across as being kind of 'in the way' for some people who just want a really nice mouse to blow away stuff in a first person shooter that they mostly play alone, or occasionally in a one on one or free for all pvp setting, but other than logging in the very first time you use it, it's really not that much different from any other device config UI. Set it and forget it. Even remove it or disable it after the setup if it's that much IN THE WAY.

Alot of us lesser intelligent folks spent money on a programmable interface because we need to change it often, and use the 'bloated' stuff frequently.

The 'majority of us 'stuipd' Razer users' are either trying to 'organize' good gaming experiences for hundreds of people at a time...or have more time than once been extremely frustrated at the long sessions of (dis)organization and setup that can often accompany opening stages of a raid or team PVP session. This can mean more time playing...and less time standing around and punching in friggin macros (or trying to explain to people what they need and how to get it punched into whatever the heck they're using). Now we have portable macros for any razor device that are easy to share at no additional cost to gamers or game developers.

Also, the majority of us gaming idiots out here can see the vision here, as well as significant progress given this company's resources. It's not a gimmik, it's something people have been wanting and requesting for years! Hopefully someday it'll be universal in nature, and work across all brands. Being able to pull parts, or all, of any razer profile and stick it anywhere you want on any other razor device is a pretty darn good start.

We also have no name walmart specials, logitecs, and microsofts, decks, duckys, and every other piece of gear you can imagine...they all have their good and bad points. I don't use Razer for everything and I'm by no means some kind of loyal fanboy of theirs...but they do have a legit vision here with their software, and they're implementing as competent of plan as their small company can afford to reach all their goals. They don't make junk (never have and never will), and they do listen to gamers pretty intently and have without doubt contributed a lot of great stuff to the gaming interface industry. Some of it still has a long way to go, and might not even catch on...but it's more than gimmicks....it's their lifeline.

Just a few more obvious examples of a bold company that's really trying to do more than 'manufacture stuff'. There are dozens of high end gaming laptops out there...all pricey...all with little advantages and disadvantages for their price ranges...but who did the one that has something unique and potentially ground breaking at the time they launched it? Razer....with a touch screen in the place of a touch pad. It might not go anywhere...it might do better if it had the 'right software'...it might become the next standard in gaming laptops if they can get them priced right and in the right stores. Only one way to find out. Now they have a keyboard for desktops that features this touch screen technology as well. Will any games even find a cool (just gotta have it) use for it besides a glorified touch pad? Windows 8 sure is set up with the tools and apps to do something with that screen...and no doubt Razer knew such potential was coming. Will the world even try to do much with it? At least someone built it, and put it on the shelves to try to find out. In the lower priced keyboards they've also got alot of interesting and weird things you just don't see anywhere else that are indeed useful for many games. Gimmiks? I don't think so...Risky? You betcha...but not dumb risk...they played games and counted the heads of the people buying those games, watched people play them....asked people what they wanted and where/how they wanted it...and even tried a few wild ideas of their own. I don't track the sales, but most of them are still being ordered and manufactured, so someone must be buying them. I doubt they're 'stupid'...maybe just rich


----------



## Omega215d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Credo1970*
> 
> Yep...reasonable indeed.
> 
> It's not so much the 'driver' part you're messing with in Synapse. That's the software that lets you customize the thing...leds, macros, sensitivity, lighting, etc.
> Most all mice/keyboards with bindable keys, media functions, lighting options, are going to have this kind of software (the exception being some of the high end mechanical boards that have all that stuff as key combos or buttons in firmware...but it's pretty much something you can't change or mess with as a user on those...you punch some buttons and it does it).
> 
> If you really want, for many models, and you only use the mouse with one setting...you can probably set it up then uninstall the extra software.
> 
> If you don't want to uninstall it but just don't use it that often...go into your windows services and disable the parts you don't need till you need them again...as you would any other software that installs services to run at boot. The 'drivers' themselves should still work just fine and for models with onboard memory your settings should be remembered.


I still like to keep Synapse 2.0 installed should I feel like changing some stuff again but right now I leave it off and keep it from starting with Windows. It's not as bad as some make it out to be but then again it was a little annoying when it first came out and signing up shouldn't be needed to use a driver. I really dislike Cloud-based junk and would rather more mice and keyboards ship with some on-board storage for profiles and such. The Deathadder 2013 seems to satisfy that need as does my CM Trigger and Spawn.


----------



## Rayleyne

@ OP, Mouse DRM seriously? How does one pirate hardware? why do we even need mouse drm..


----------



## Omega215d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayleyne*
> 
> @ OP, Mouse DRM seriously? How does one pirate hardware? why do we even need mouse drm..


Believe or not there are counterfeit mice making their way on the market and of course coming from crafty Chinese based manufacturers. Of course DRM for components is a bit ridiculous and DRM never really did any good for anyone.


----------



## Rayleyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Omega215d*
> 
> Believe or not there are counterfeit mice making their way on the market and of course coming from crafty Chinese based manufacturers. Of course DRM for components is a bit ridiculous and DRM never really did any good for anyone.


I don't think i've seen anything other then a fake external drive over the years, But even still, It's a mouse.... Drm.... Mouse.........drm.... wut, That's like saying i need an itnernet connection to use my car


----------



## Credo1970

In response to: "signing up shouldn't be needed to use a driver. I really dislike Cloud-based junk"

I gotta get off this thing and stop thread hogging...just one more post and I'll get off my high horse.

They aren't just mice anymore. This gaming stuff often goes beyond the norms and standards of what the hardware they started with was really intended to do. A mouse just registers a cursor and clicks at relatively low resolutions. They can do that with generic mouse drivers no problem.
Some have half a keyboard or more packed in there as well, plus light controllers, oddball timers, non standard keys, and on and on. They're also stringing chips and stuff together to allow ultra high polling rates, and really wide instruction sets (for more key roll overs over interfaces that weren't initially set up to do that).

Again...standard drivers will run that mouse too. Just like any ole PCL, ECS, or Postscript printer driver will make 99% of the printers out there print just fine. To unlock the stuff that makes the printer special....every single one of them sends you online to register for better software that lets you blow stuff up...shrink it...rotate it...alter it...scan stuff...manipulate memory and trays....and on and on. If you don't want theirs, you can opt for Adobe, or Corel, or some free and open package, or whatever....but bottom line, if you want to unlock the stuff the printer can do, you register and download something.

The bells and whistles are PC side software that in the least, tell the firmware to do things that aren't a part of the normal mouse or keyboard standards. It remembers stuff and lets you totally remap and program things. It even has compilers and stuff in there in it in some cases, as well as all sorts of patented firmware flashers and on and on. It's pretty complex stuff for 'just a mouse'...and it's actually the part that the company is developing and selling....after all...the chip sets and the bulk of the 'parts' used to build it are pretty much the same pieces and parts used for all mice ... from the cheapest to the most expensive ... made by any company.

I see where you're coming from, but I think the idea here may be to eventually develop a kind of OS for user input devices that may even someday be 'hardware independent'. Routers have it, PCs have it, phones have it. Granted a little mouse that does nothing but point and click doesn't really need it....the low level drivers already cover everything...but these products are different. People use them in combination with a whole slew of other interfaces (these days add the now standard touch screen to the whole ordeal). It's another step in empowering the user to build, create, and customize every aspect of his gaming experience...from how fast the thing polls, how sensitive it is, what each key does and where he want to bind stuff...and on and on. That's not just a mouse...that's just one step shy of a complete high level personal development platform.

I'm not particularly crazy about it in all respects...but pretty much all pieces of software this involved want to be registered or they just don't run. DVD drivers in themselves are kinda simple....and the same low level driver will work with almost all the drives (at least for basic functionality)....but to get Nero or Roxio or something on there and start actually doing something with it (like reading/buring a filesystem and files, editing or decoding audio/video) beyond spinning the thing up and streaming raw data in and out almost always requires you to go online and register something or order up some disks or a usb dongle or whatever mode of transport you need.

Free and open software also is known to ask you to register in order to grab the download. It's not all that uncommon. It's not all that much trouble. It's important for what developers do, yet it harms no one, and isn't a danger to anyone (except maybe the competition that's not making any attempt at all to maintain a connection with its user base).

Yes, there are models and brands that might seem to host a function or two totally in firmware beyond the norm. Plug and play...but those will have to be custom done for every single device pretty much from the ground up. If you do want to get into customizing what goes in the firmware under the 1.0 branch...you really will have to register some pretty deep dev kits and get into peeks and pokes! You won't be able to pull the profiles from one device and simply drop it to a key, wheel, or sensor in another one as 2.0 allows...etc. It'll cost you twice as much to develop and maintain product lines with uniformity and cooperative interdevice modes...and will take longer to get updates/grades out...and will lock you and your consumers into certain types of chips and parts.

Really, they're mostly trying to make it easier on the consumer...trying to find some small edge so they can maybe beat the competition on price points, or features, or both...and maybe get lucky and make a little money....so they'll maybe want to keep doing businesses with them, and seriously, how many 'gamers' out there aren't constantly creating accounts for this and that all over the web on any given day anyway?

Either way, consumers are going to want to go to a website and get the latest fixes and fluff. I think most do anyway, and folks haven't been complaining about it until a small company that only makes a few things trys to grow...then all the sudden lots of noise comes out to tell these little guys that they can't even think about doing what the big boys have been doing every single second for decades. No?

On cloud junk
Perhaps more can be done to make that part of it a clear option. Particularly for the gadgets clearly aimed more at high performance fps games and such that aren't all about going online and interacting with others. Thing is...the new game development is largely network based and has been for some time. You log in, play in a metaverse of some sort with a few, or even thousands of others. The folks that don't already have high end equipment, and are likely to look into buying one in the near future tend to be drawn into these newer networked games....they're also wanting to play with consoles, pads, and smartphones....those markets are growing big time...while beefy high end desktops are planing out, or even declining as the markets flood with more and more stuff competing head on.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayleyne*
> 
> I don't think i've seen anything other then a fake external drive over the years, But even still, It's a mouse.... Drm.... Mouse.........drm.... wut, That's like saying i need an itnernet connection to use my car


There are fakes around, I came across a fake Deathadder myself: http://www.overclock.net/t/1324292/warning-fake-deathadders-around

I don't know if this is related in any form to Synapse though.


----------



## Omega215d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> There are fakes around, I came across a fake Deathadder myself: http://www.overclock.net/t/1324292/warning-fake-deathadders-around
> 
> I don't know if this is related in any form to Synapse though.


Considering how many companies are relying on chinese manufacturing expect more components to be counterfeited, I mean if they can make almost exact copies of the iPhone what makes you think they can't make something as trivial as a mouse?

This counterfeit thing came up due to the mentioning of DRM. As I said before DRM is ridiculous for all things and only seems to hurt legitimate users.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Omega215d*
> 
> This counterfeit thing came up due to the mentioning of DRM. As I said before DRM is ridiculous for all things and only seems to hurt legitimate users.


I understood that, I was referring to not knowing if these counterfeit were part of the reason _for Razer_ to implement Synapse as means of copyright management into their product lineup.


----------



## Lever Guy

went looking for a replacement for my defunked Intellimouse Explorer today.
saw that the DeathAdder 2013 was similar in shape, and button layout.

outa the box it was über sensitive. i assume the high default DPI.
opened Control panel / mouse / pointer options (Win 7)
toned it down till it felt right to me.



then i opened up TF2 and tweaked it in there as well. (Raw ignores the OS mouse settings)



have no desire to download anything from Razer at this time. running windows driver from 6/21/2006








i would hope someone who is tech savvy is working on a no BS app/driver.


----------



## Skylit

2k13 defaults at 1800 DPI, 500hz iirc.

You can install synapse, set and save a specific DPI/Polling rate. It will save~


----------



## ice445

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Omega215d*
> 
> Believe or not there are counterfeit mice making their way on the market and of course coming from crafty Chinese based manufacturers. Of course DRM for components is a bit ridiculous and DRM never really did any good for anyone.


You'll almost never see a counterfeit Chinese computer product outside of the Asian market. It just doesn't happen.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ice445*
> 
> You'll almost never see a counterfeit Chinese computer product outside of the Asian market. It just doesn't happen.


It does if you buy from a 3rd party on Ebay and or similar auction size.

Fake 2013 Edition Deathadders less than a month after launch.


----------



## ice445

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> It does if you buy from a 3rd party on Ebay and or similar auction size.
> 
> Fake 2013 Edition Deathadders less than a month after launch.


I mean if you use an actual, trusted retail channel.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ice445*
> 
> I mean if you use an actual, trusted retail channel.


I got a fake DA 3.5G off of a third party Amazon vendor. Amazon directly might be 100% clean, but many people might not even recognize they buy from Amazon marketplace, so...


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ice445*
> 
> I mean if you use an actual, trusted retail channel.


Quote:


> You'll almost never see a counterfeit Chinese computer product outside of the Asian market. It just doesn't happen.


????????????????


----------



## ice445

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> ????????????????


I don't see the problem? It was implied I was talking about a normal retail channel, like Best Buy or Newegg. In my opinion, third party Amazon and Ebay sellers aren't exactly "normal". Especially on Ebay, it's often an Asian seller just offering their products in the states. This is the case with many of those Catleap/Crossover monitors.

So no, I wasn't implying that somehow counterfeit products never appear over here, just that the *average consumer* isn't likely to come into contact with them.


----------



## Lever Guy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> 2k13 defaults at 1800 DPI, 500hz iirc.
> 
> You can install synapse, set and save a specific DPI/Polling rate. It will save~


thanks for the info


----------



## KeyboardXpert

Maybe I'm missing something here, but does Synapse actually still datamine in offline mode? Because for me, I've only had to log in once, then it just remembers it and I don't ever have to put it online ever again. I've been in offline mode since day one. What is so bad with Synapse in offline mode? Because honestly, I don't mind the DRM as long as I can actually turn off their datamining.


----------



## fung0

Credo, the length and frequency of your justifications only emphasizes the weakness of your argument. This whole Synapse 2 thing is very simple: connecting to the Internet should _always_ be optional. Connecting to the Internet when it's not technically necessary will _always_ be suspect. Period, full stop, end of story.

I've been a _huge_ fan of Razer going right back to the original Boomslang. But this new 'cloud' approach is a deal-breaker. It _might_ have been okay as an option, though I certainly wouldn't have asked for it. (My macros never filled even a tiny portion of the memory in my previous Razer mice.) Shoved down my throat, it becomes openly offensive. Razer, I love your hardware, but I'll be choosing a different brand for my next mouse, if you don't see reason soon.

I just checked my firewall log, and Synapse is trying to connect to the Internet every minute or two, on one of two IP addresses. _This is behavior I'd expect from malware._ And completely unnecessary for the proper functioning of my Taipan mouse.

On top of privacy concerns, Razer is eroding my faith in its technology. Adding un-features to a product is a sure sign the engineering team has either been subverted by marketing, or has simply lost it's way. Keyboard driver integrated with mouse driver?? Surround sound? Online chat??? Are you kidding me? All I want is a mouse. Just a mouse. You used to make the best mice in the world, but this new software is killing that reputation. A good driver is _as simple as possible_. The new Synapse 2 philosophy is totally wrong from an engineering and consumer perspective. The spyware connection is just one part of a huge wrong turn for your whole product line.

Some of the new software we're seeing lately makes me think of the Aesop's fable about the wind and the sun. Huff and puff as hard as you like, Razer; you're only blowing your most devoted fans towards the competition. You want to keep us? Respect our reasonable feedback, don't cram stuff down our throats that we didn't ask for and don't want. And above all, _do not_ put us in the position of having to trust you with a backdoor to our PCs. Anybody who reads the news knows just how easily that kind of trust can (and will) be abused.

It's not too late. All you need is the courage to admit you've made a gigantic mistake. Don't worry: your fans will respect you for it.


----------



## Credo1970

fung0

How can length and frequency lead to 'lack of understanding'?
First, Synapse 2.0 is NOT a driver. You can just plug this stuff in and it will work. Simple.

The extra stuff is software that you get the rights to use. I.E. Your DVD drive has very simple 'drivers' that adhere to the standards of your computer OS, but if you want it to play movies or burn disks then you need some higher level SOFTWARE. Yep, they can pack alot of what these devices do in 'firmware' on the mice, but research has shown that there is no practical benifit to doing that for the vast majority of users, and it presents many 'challenges' for anyone that enables more than one user account on his computer. You end up with lots of wasteful and needles writes to flash memory....and a very expensive platform to develop for and update/grade.

1. Aside from registering online for the first time Internet activity is optional in Synapse 2.0. How is Synapse 2.0 pinging to check for updates any different than your Adobe Movie player or iTunes doing the EXACT SAME THING? Even if it shipped with a disk...98% of the people who would buy this type of gaming gear go grab the latest drivers anyway...and they REGISTER their stuff so they can get warranty and service if needed. Just like your Flash player, or your dozen smartphone drivers...you can go in and tell them NOT to go online without your MANUAL consent.

2. Many many game developers and players have been asking for these types of features for years now. If only development on Synapse were a bit FASTER...and things like web based APIs were online sooner...then newer and better games that can take advantage of cloud services would hit the streets sooner. If dev kits go out...people can more quickly make addons and innovate new and interesting ways to use these bits for gaming. Synapse is a step in the RIGHT DIRECTION to help developers push gaming to the next levels. Again...with today's technology it is possible for 'end users' to play games with things 'besides just mice and keyboards'. Drive your game with a blue-toothed smart phone for instance... If Razer gets a foot in the door NOW, instead of just playing 'me too' and trying to compete 'just making mice' along with 2,000 other 'we just make mice' companies (who have bottomless government subsidized contracts for 'non-gaming gear'...they aren't going to last another decade. Again, you are singling out a small 'specialized' company that only makes a few products...where the GIANT Super Corps. that make a zillion products don't care if you register anything else since they already have you in their databases in at least 200 'other ways' (through the Windows OS itself, other household appliances, your insurance policy, for instance).

AGAIN...be a raid boss for a 200 man raid on a MMORPG....make a list of things that could make your life easier in organizing a raid (and make everyone else happier because they can spend more time playing and less time standing around getting key-binding suggestions to poke in by hand). Synapse 2.0 is just one baby step towards many of the things on those lists that people have been making since the mid 1990s.

3. While it makes plenty of sense that a person who only plays FPS shooters against the computer (not head to head or online) on a single desktop-account on a single machine that isn't connected to the Internet won't need or care about 'the cloud', it's imperative to understand that a significant portion of the gaming market plays games ON THE CLOUD, on many different machines/devices. They also share machines with multiple USERS who might like to set everything up totally different than others in the same household. The Synapse way...a gamer can walk up to any machine that has Synapse installed, log in, and have his settings across ANY Razer device within moments. In time it could be an industry standard that works across any brand of UI device.

4. Razer is not set up to 'data mine'. Big corps can get away with doing nasty stuff because they can AFFORD the bandwidth and storage, and more importantly they have the means to defend themselves in international courts, and just sell off stuff and make 'legal issues' go away if they smell a nasty coming. Razer has little to gain and EVERYTHING to LOSE by doing anything nasty with your precious key-bindings and UI set-up profiles. What blows me away is that people who fuss the loudest about Synapse 2.0 play some of the most intrusive and spy-ware ridden online games in existence...which don't even TRY to give users any protected rights. Not only that...they MOOCH bandwidth from you...making your PC a torrent node for their own commercial purposes. Razer doesn't even ask for your debt card info like those 'true spy-ware' giants that those in the 'know' are cool in doing business with.

ALL SYNAPSE 2.0 is under contract with the end user to do is store your profiles and provide updates. THAT'S IT. This feature can be disabled as soon as you've logged in and registered that first time.


----------



## forthedisplay

The problem is that the cloud is forced on people. People aren't just going to sit still and think they'll be puking rainbows instantly afterwards.

Storing profiles, creating profiles are tasks that take a laughable amount of memory these days and is not something that a mouse's onboard memory couldn't handle, let alone the computer's hard drive or a simple USB stick.

Now, don't get me wrong, sure the cloud can be useful when you go to a new computer while lacking the onboard memory on a mouse or whatever, but there's no reason as to why this wouldn't be optional.

All this is a way for Razer to prevent counterfeit products from being produced, and possibly a way to promote themselves as a service rather than a simple hardware manufacturer. The cloud feature, when implemented like this, is nothing but a hindrance for a user.


----------



## Credo1970

Once you've set everything up and registered the product(s) the first time using the cloud IS optional. There may even be a way to install it without the internet, and without having to create an account and/or login to it that first time (I cannot confirm this because I have not personally tried it but it would seem quite possible to do so by downloading the package to a USB stick or disk and running them on the target system).

Note in the drop down menu at the top right of Synapse 2.0 that unless you are already in Offline mode, there is an option "Go Offline".



Choose it and you get this:


Once it's in offline mode things look more like this (notice the manual 'sync' option at the bottom right and a stamp telling the last sync time and date).


If needed you could also manually pull your profiles onto a USB drive or burn them to a disk. You can just pull the Razer related files out of the correct directory on your PC and transport them where you want them.

Also Synapse 2.0 in and of itself is also OPTIONAL. You can use the majority of the keyboards and mice with NO extra software at all using bog standard UI device drivers. You can opt to use other software for maping and macros and stuff if that is your choice...there are a few pretty decent FREE ones out there for most OSes. AutoHotKey is just one example for Windows.

Your 'laughable' amount of extra 'work and memory' for flash based platforms in an industry that is ultra competitive and already working on very slim profit margins equates to pennies per device produced, which adds up to thousands of bucks a day, etc. If you can shave 4 cents per unit off the cost of producing something and end up with an even better product then it's just backwards stubbornness NOT to do it, and I'll assure that all the bits to reliably install, use, and develop for a flash intensive platform cost well MORE than 4 cents per unit...more like dollars per unit.

Furthermore...development for that type of platform is NOT something just anyone can do...it uses very low level languages that require specialized people to create. Supporting Synapse 2.0 as a developer or an END USER compared to a flash based firmware solution would be like comparing writing software in assembly language and making HTML documents. Almost anyone can create and enjoy the latter with far less investment in learning how to do it. At the end of the day you get something that uses a higher level language that more people can easily build their own specialized addons and stuff.

More and more games are exploring 'sandbox' type worlds...where the players actually get to join in and CREATE the games and scenarios they wish to play. Ideas like Synapse 2.0 could help add yet another level to those newer gaming concepts.

No one is forcing 'the cloud' on you. There are plenty of quality UI devices on the market for far less cash than Razer's line of products that don't offer anything like Synapse 2.0. Thing is, once you get into the level of features and complexity that Synapse 2.0 offers...nearly all of the products on the market in those classes have more than their fair share of quirks and issues with the software that goes with it all.


----------



## illwill

The main problem I have with Synapse is any time I go to the lock or switch user screen on Windows 8 it will make my computer reboot. But yes it is optional so I don't even use it.


----------



## forthedisplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Credo1970*
> 
> ...


Look, I'll keep it simple.

Synapse doesn't have any next level complexity. Everything on the market from companies like Logitech, Roccat, hell, even Corsair and Gigabyte do exactly the same things. Hotkey remapping, macros, profiles.

The only thing that Synapse 2.0 does "better" is the cloud thing. And that's some basic level convenience most people wouldn't use and convenience that's worth of 20 seconds of effort. All it does is upload your profile data to cloud, and let's you download them there from another computer. The amount of data those profiles amount for is so little that you can even e-mail yourself and then get them from your inbox when you need them.

Is that bad? Not really, it's added convenience even if it's not worth much.

What is bad, is being forced to do that initial online registration in the first place, accept Razer's sketchy privacy policies. It should just work. There's no reason not to keep it optional. If customers deem it a necessary sometime in the future, they'll use it. Maybe Razer incorporates some other services into it and makes it even better, who knows. And makes their policies more transparent. Initially you couldn't even edit your profiles offline. At least the amended that a bit.

Having a login for drivers is a joke.

For me, the added inconvenience far outweighs the added convenience.


----------



## Neckbeard13

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/689/ta1e.jpg/

Uploaded with ImageShack.us .... ....


----------



## Fearlessleader

Well at this point as much as i don't like the stink of corruption around this Razer issue I would like the software to work at all. Since the release of the Synapse 2.0 I am bating 2 for 2 not working.

I just bought a 2nd Naga Expert I guess it is. Anyway it's the green one that has the palm pad u can change and it's not the hex or the epic. I bought this for my wife as I was using the Original Blue Naga Legacy.

I had to do a format on my Machine and upgrade it Win 8 Pro where I am still using my Blue Legacy but lost my my Synapse 1.0 and so far the 2.0 won't see my mouse at all and just closes

The 2nd was the new one and it's installed on a window 7 and we of course installed the fresh drivers and software with the new 2.0 and guess what? it also Don't work does the same thing to the letter.

I would love to jump right in there with you saying what crap this software is but so far I can get it to work at all. I just thought there was a bad release and they would release a new version soon but now after waiting 2 months of have nice 80$ 3 button mouse, I could have bought for 10 bucks at the flee market for what it does. I was looking for a solution and found this post.

Seems we have another Big Brother in the house and junk software to boot how nice, maybe if they spent more time making sure the software really worked they would have less time to snoop.

So after searching a dozen or so sites and I landed right here at home and reading about you guys shredding Razor. BTW U go boys go get them.

Ok so after reading most of this post It would seem you can download the version 1.0 again for legacy Razor products? I would like to know where, it seems a pretty well guarded over at Razor. I was just looking for those drivers myself to get my mouse working.

I was also wondering if anyone thinks if I could find the the 1.0 version if, it might work on my wife's green expert version that I bought just a short time ago.

TIA

BTW Nice post exposing them dirt bag spy's


----------



## Credo1970

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fearlessleader*
> 
> Well at this point as much as i don't like the stink of corruption around this Razer issue I would like the software to work at all. Since the release of the Synapse 2.0 I am bating 2 for 2 not working.
> 
> I just bought a 2nd Naga Expert I guess it is. Anyway it's the green one that has the palm pad u can change and it's not the hex or the epic. I bought this for my wife as I was using the Original Blue Naga Legacy.
> 
> I had to do a format on my Machine and upgrade it Win 8 Pro where I am still using my Blue Legacy but lost my my Synapse 1.0 and so far the 2.0 won't see my mouse at all and just closes
> 
> The 2nd was the new one and it's installed on a window 7 and we of course installed the fresh drivers and software with the new 2.0 and guess what? it also Don't work does the same thing to the letter.
> 
> I would love to jump right in there with you saying what crap this software is but so far I can get it to work at all. I just thought there was a bad release and they would release a new version soon but now after waiting 2 months of have nice 80$ 3 button mouse, I could have bought for 10 bucks at the flee market for what it does. I was looking for a solution and found this post.
> 
> Seems we have another Big Brother in the house and junk software to boot how nice, maybe if they spent more time making sure the software really worked they would have less time to snoop.
> 
> So after searching a dozen or so sites and I landed right here at home and reading about you guys shredding Razor. BTW U go boys go get them.
> 
> Ok so after reading most of this post It would seem you can download the version 1.0 again for legacy Razor products? I would like to know where, it seems a pretty well guarded over at Razor. I was just looking for those drivers myself to get my mouse working.
> 
> I was also wondering if anyone thinks if I could find the the 1.0 version if, it might work on my wife's green expert version that I bought just a short time ago.
> 
> TIA
> 
> BTW Nice post exposing them dirt bag spy's


First, does the mouse work with no synapse at all?

It should work out of the box.
By default the thumb key pad will send numbers. A switch on the bottom lets you choose between 10key codes or top number row codes.

If it's not working on bog standard OS mouse drivers...check the BIOS. Try tinkering with Legacy USB options. It is NOT uncommon at all for various makes of motherboards to need BIOS settings in order to use USB mice and keyboards. That's not Razer's fault.

If the mouse is working with no Synapse installed at all, then there's no good reason I know of why it wouldn't be picked up by Synapse 2.0.

I have a classic Naga as well. Works fine with either 2.0 or 1.0.

Legacy Synapse is not guarded...
You can get both 2.0 or Legacy Synapse software at the support site.
http://drivers.razersupport.com//index.php?_m=downloads&_a=view&parentcategoryid=144&pcid=40&nav=0,76,229,40


----------



## Credo1970

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *forthedisplay*
> 
> Look, I'll keep it simple.
> 
> Synapse doesn't have any next level complexity. Everything on the market from companies like Logitech, Roccat, hell, even Corsair and Gigabyte do exactly the same things. Hotkey remapping, macros, profiles.
> 
> The only thing that Synapse 2.0 does "better" is the cloud thing. And that's some basic level convenience most people wouldn't use and convenience that's worth of 20 seconds of effort. All it does is upload your profile data to cloud, and let's you download them there from another computer. The amount of data those profiles amount for is so little that you can even e-mail yourself and then get them from your inbox when you need them.
> 
> Is that bad? Not really, it's added convenience even if it's not worth much.
> 
> What is bad, is being forced to do that initial online registration in the first place, accept Razer's sketchy privacy policies. It should just work. There's no reason not to keep it optional. If customers deem it a necessary sometime in the future, they'll use it. Maybe Razer incorporates some other services into it and makes it even better, who knows. And makes their policies more transparent. Initially you couldn't even edit your profiles offline. At least the amended that a bit.
> 
> Having a login for drivers is a joke.
> 
> For me, the added inconvenience far outweighs the added convenience.


Initially you couldn't? I've never seen that version where the cloud stuff was NOT optional...ever. I've only read about it. Early adopters who purchased the first 100 units got it? I don't know, but I DO know that for decades I've had some problems with first run software/hardware from MANY companies. Sony, Mirantz, Pioneer, Yamaha, JVC, on and on....I got all anxious and ordered the stuff before it even hit the retailers' shelves yet. It's a sad reality that sometimes companies don't have their launch act together and a software update or two is essential. I don't think Razer is alone in this respect. Everything I've seen seems to show that it was only a matter of days before the so called 'forced to use the cloud' issue was addressed and fixed. The so called 'sketchy privacy policy' was never sketchy...just poorly translated to English, and that was quickly addressed by the company as well.

I'll UN-simplify it again. It's not just about the hardware and games sold 'today', but also about how developers can gear up for the next generation of products.

The fact that they have invested in server software, technology, and bandwidth to store the profiles IS a stepping stone to 'next level complexity' that currently no one else offers. It IS a pretty MAJOR foundation to offering more tools for DEVELOPERS (both in house at Razer, or third party) to do all kinds of interesting things with gaming interface devices. Right now it's just a storage area, but that's the ground floor for potentially more things to come. Again you say 'who needs the cloud'? Smartphones, GPS, Tablets....all that stuff is set up to work on the cloud...so it makes sense that more game developers are setting up games to work with those types of devices. Razer is just trying to get a foot in the door and be ready for those paradigm shifts. AGAIN, it might not be much longer that people buy mice and keyboards as we know them anyway....so what's a company like Razer supposed to do then?

Again, you're not FORCED to use Synapse at all....period. The stuff works out of the box on bog standard OS supplied drivers if need be. You can even use third party mapping and sensor setting software if that's your choice. Oh, and to get those third party 'software packages'...many of them are going to ask to you register too! Registering software is NOTHING NEW....hell, even my 1988 Atari ST had me register my software....PLUS had a friggin stack of 'dongles'...an PIRATES till were able to clone their wares and have much to do with eventually driving them out of business.

Next, why is it such a big deal to take a moment to register your new mouse? Why would you NOT want to do this anyway? Especially if it's something you paid that much for...and want to lock in the warranty info and stuff?

Sketchy Privacy Policies? There's nothing sketchy about the privacy policy at all. It is VERY CLEAR that ALL IT DOES is OPTIONALLY store your profiles and key-maps on a server somewhere, and check for software updates.

Why the heck can every other company in the world do 'optional' auto update checks (YES, MY LOGITECH and MICROSOFT MICE and Synaptic TOUCHPADS have software that does this too)...but not Razer?

YES...just two days ago I plugged a Microsoft wireless mouse into my computer and the first thing it did was throw up a dialog that it was checking the internet for an update. It was pretty elaborate stuff that was specific to this product (not just a little Windows Notification in the bottom corner of the screen). It took me to a page in my default web browser specific for the mouse. In this case I didn't have to 'register' again because I already went through that with the Windows OS and all that is tied together for MS stuff anyway.

Next, I notice that all my laptops are powered by Logitech touch pads. They ALSO regularly ping about checking for 'updates', and they ALSO have stuff that is started at boot and run in the system tray, etc. They also had me 'register' my new product(s) for full support and warranty...etc.

The list goes on and on. Several posts on this thread are just a bad attempt at a smear campaign...
If there's something you like better than Razer that's fine...no one cares. The part that's just full of it is pretending they are operating on a different set of ethics and legal grounds for privacy and security than any other software/hardware company out there. It's simply not true. While a younger/smaller company is bound to make more mistakes than a huge experienced corp, and their products or their prices are not going to be for everyone...they're no where near the bully/tyrant/snooping/unethical ripoff outfit some folks are trying to imply.


----------



## Pente

Get out razer shill. You don't simply sell an car with GPS function and then make the GPS constanty save data and report back about where you're driving to. The fact that GPS isn't "required" to drive the car still doesn't justify how dumb the whole thing is.

If Synapse had been required to run mouse then Razer mice would probably get banned in Germany. That's how "consumer friendly" it is.


----------



## 2thAche

I wish I had seen this before I bought a Deathadder 2013.

1: I have two DA 3.5G and use the 3.05 software. I use OTF sensitivity all the time, since I use high sens for desktop/browsing, low sens for photoshop masking, and medium for games.
2: I find out I have to log in to use the synapse 2.0 software? What an absolute load of crap. Shame on you Razer.
3: Works fine out of the box? BS!!! Where is my OTF sensitivity out of the box??? I'm not hunting down 3rd party software to get around this issue, that's ridiculous.
4: So I break down and set up a login so I can use OTF sensitivity, and it's laggy as hell. As in, sometimes the hotkey (I use mouse 5) works, sometimes it doesn't. When it does work, I move the wheel and it's literally seconds later when it changes sensitivity. *** is this?

Now I'm seeing that I can't use legacy software with this mouse I paid good money for???

Sombody show me how to change the LED in the 3.5G to green. The only reason I picked up the 2013 is to match my green LED rig, I thought it was just a plug in replacement for the 3.5G.

This mouse, for me, is unusable BECAUSE of synapse 2.0. It is absolutely going back and I'll have to just tolerate the blue LED 3.5G in my color scheme. GIVE ME THE LEGACY DRIVER AND I'LL BE COMPLETELY HAPPY!!! That in itself is proof that Synapse sucks.

If synapse 2.0 is required for all new Razer products, the truth is I'm done with Razer products. Argue all you want, I don't need another piece of software forcing me to log in and telling me what to do. If I wanted that, I'd be on a MAC.


----------



## bleomycin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2thAche*
> 
> the only reason I picked up the 2013 is to match my green LED rig, I thought it was just a plug in replacement for the 3.5G.
> 
> This mouse, for me, is unusable BECAUSE of synapse 2.0. It is absolutely going back and I'll have to just tolerate the blue LED 3.5G in my color scheme. GIVE ME THE LEGACY DRIVER AND I'LL BE COMPLETELY HAPPY!!! That in itself is proof that Synapse sucks.
> 
> If synapse 2.0 is required for all new Razer products, the truth is I'm done with Razer products. Argue all you want, I don't need another piece of software forcing me to log in and telling me what to do. If I wanted that, I'd be on a MAC.


Dump razer, they're one of the worst companies i've ever dealt with and get worse every day. If you want a quality mouse with any color LED you like look into roccat.


----------



## dmasteR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2thAche*
> 
> I wish I had seen this before I bought a Deathadder 2013.
> 
> 1: I have two DA 3.5G and use the 3.05 software. I use OTF sensitivity all the time, since I use high sens for desktop/browsing, low sens for photoshop masking, and medium for games.
> 2: I find out I have to log in to use the synapse 2.0 software? What an absolute load of crap. Shame on you Razer.
> 3: Works fine out of the box? BS!!! Where is my OTF sensitivity out of the box??? I'm not hunting down 3rd party software to get around this issue, that's ridiculous.
> 4: So I break down and set up a login so I can use OTF sensitivity, and it's laggy as hell. As in, sometimes the hotkey (I use mouse 5) works, sometimes it doesn't. When it does work, I move the wheel and it's literally seconds later when it changes sensitivity. *** is this?
> 
> Now I'm seeing that I can't use legacy software with this mouse I paid good money for???
> 
> Sombody show me how to change the LED in the 3.5G to green. The only reason I picked up the 2013 is to match my green LED rig, I thought it was just a plug in replacement for the 3.5G.
> 
> This mouse, for me, is unusable BECAUSE of synapse 2.0. It is absolutely going back and I'll have to just tolerate the blue LED 3.5G in my color scheme. GIVE ME THE LEGACY DRIVER AND I'LL BE COMPLETELY HAPPY!!! That in itself is proof that Synapse sucks.
> 
> If synapse 2.0 is required for all new Razer products, the truth is I'm done with Razer products. Argue all you want, I don't need another piece of software forcing me to log in and telling me what to do. If I wanted that, I'd be on a MAC.


Put it on offline mode.


----------



## FranBunnyFFXII

I logged in once to synapse and that was it. even when I don't have internet I can use my mouse.


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## senna89

Synapse can be run without internet but can not detecting your devices after restart.


----------



## Ghost12

I have a Nostromo, death adder and had a bw ultimate until got a k60 and passed the razer to the wife. I have had synapse 2,0 for maybe 12 months running without a single issue ever. No problems here


----------



## jeffrey159

there's a weird problem for me too. it asks me to update to 2.0 and when i click update, it just hangs there and i waited for hours and it still haven't complete updating and my mouse is off until i replug in


----------



## drnilly007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeffrey159*
> 
> there's a weird problem for me too. it asks me to update to 2.0 and when i click update, it just hangs there and i waited for hours and it still haven't complete updating and my mouse is off until i replug in


Not weird just means auto update is broken and you have to manually download it.


----------



## jesseQ

channelx99.
man well said for long time i thought was just me been me, my understanding on the it things was told to me by myself, so wasnt sure about that i can support and backups of my findings untill now. the razer surround and audio things also clash with the pc and gaming, i am using dells2740l monitor HDMI with gtx680 sli. before i download the audio crap from razer every thing was fine and now my HDMI works fine with every thing but no sound come out all my sound driver is update,and i play alot of bf3, without sound i am just a fat duck. and i plug the speaker into the rear jack and i get sound but half way through the game it crash the game freeze my screen giving out that buzz sound. at first i really dont know what went wrong maybe overclocking too much etc etc. untill i unplug the speaker the sound stops screen still freeze still need to reboot. and if i dont play the game the its fine it never crash. was a big shock the sound jack can make this much trouble, friend told me that i need to disable the reltek audio things because it clash with the nvidia audio, i did that it worked for awhile... lol now all the indication that i have sound andgage even goes up and down but i can only plug into the rear audio jack to have sounds to make partys but cant play game it will crash for me now before it crash it give me a short buzz sound than 3 minutes later it will freeze the game,its very gentleman like. you most likely got confessed by me by now. this fark ups can be avoid if you using razer audio wear. so there.i've been using lots difficult ways try to fix this issue because i dont feel like to giving in to the razer, still no luck.till i saw your post.And i thank you very much for giving me the light that i am not crazy and i thank you for that. also i find out that razer mamba mouse can make Razer Synapse go funny. now the only mouse i am using is mamba. need to go back to fix this sound things now thanks


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## 2Luke2

This was news to me after I reloaded my computer and couldn't find my mouse software. If this is the direction they are moving I will never buy another Razor product again. I held true to not buy any EA products for years and this won't be any different. I will not log in so you can track me or collect data for their own personal gain. If I felt like they needed feedback I would provide it. I'm on the internet and this is just a damn mouse... I shouldn't have to sign up for an online account for mouse drivers.... Complete fail Razer. I will be sure to spread the word to all my friends and family.


----------



## dmasteR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2Luke2*
> 
> This was news to me after I reloaded my computer and couldn't find my mouse software. If this is the direction they are moving I will never buy another Razor product again. I held true to not buy any EA products for years and this won't be any different. I will not log in so you can track me or collect data for their own personal gain. If I felt like they needed feedback I would provide it. I'm on the internet and this is just a damn mouse... I shouldn't have to sign up for an online account for mouse drivers.... Complete fail Razer. I will be sure to spread the word to all my friends and family.


Offline mode....

If you have a older Razer mice, you can still download Legacy Drivers.


----------



## 2Luke2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmasteR*
> 
> Offline mode....
> 
> If you have a older Razer mice, you can still download Legacy Drivers.


Yes and I understand you can get the old drivers, but just like I stopped supporting EA when they started going towards always online games I will do the same for Razer.


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## Kryzzay

Lots of posts and no one has mentioned how to get it working again.

I have been trying everything and finally have come to some kind of work around.

Firstly remove any sign of Synapse that you can find. Uninstall it from Programs and Features.

Go to Device Manager, and remove your Razer xxxxxxxxx from Human Interface Devices, Keyboards, and Mice and other pointing devices. Check the box to delete the drivers as well.

Now install Synapse again.

I kept trying to log in with the first email i registered with. This time around I tried another one and now it works. Not 100% sure if the email thing is what fixed it.

Offline mode is working. And will stay off. Stupid Razer.

This is with the Ouroboros and Windows 8 64bit.


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