# (UPDATE 2) [MB] Bitcoin Surges, Tops $1000



## ZealotKi11er

The guy that sold the 5000 coins for 200 bust be kicking himself.


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## MoGTy

Surely this is a bubble created by hype and shortage of actual coins due to them being limited, otherwise, I don't get it.


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## chargerz919

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> The guy that sold the 5000 coins for 200 bust be kicking himself.


The story I read said he only sold 20% of his coins to buy his apartment. That means he still had 4000 coins worth $2,475,760.


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## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> The guy that sold the 5000 coins for 200 bust be kicking himself.


Did he sell all of them?


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## Shiftstealth

This is going to explode like the housing bubble.


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## farmdve

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheMadProfessor*
> 
> Given that Bitcoin already has a reputation as a revenue stream for criminal enterprises, I think I'll wait to get in on it.


USD has a reputation as a revenue stream for criminal enterprises.


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## 21276

Two weeks ago I was thinking about ways of using the 300+ computers at my work during off-hours to get into mining but the idea never took ground.


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## SuprUsrStan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> This is going to explode like the housing bubble.


The question is if you can grab all the money you can carry and run with it before it does. God. Why did I sell my 50 or so coins at 30 dollars a coin XD


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## TheMadProfessor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TheMadProfessor*
> 
> Given that Bitcoin already has a reputation as a revenue stream for criminal enterprises, I think I'll wait to get in on it.
> 
> 
> 
> USD has a reputation as a revenue stream for criminal enterprises.
Click to expand...

Yes, which is why I edited my post (apparently while you were replying)...


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## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> This is going to explode like the housing bubble.


BTC has a few good crashes left in it I think (it's had two major corrections before: once from ~20 USD to ~1USD then again from ~230USD to ~60 USD), but barring a truly catastrophic event, the general trend will continue upwards.


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## 47 Knucklehead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> The guy that sold the 5000 coins for 200 bust be kicking himself.


Yeah, and I'm sure the guy who sold Microsoft stock for $16 a share in July of 2009 is kicking himself too. Stock is like that.


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## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flatliner*
> 
> Two weeks ago I was thinking about ways of using the 300+ computers at my work during off-hours to get into mining but the idea never took ground.


You've still got time. Bitcoin is going to continue getting higher for a little while before it plateaus.

Seriously dude, take advantage of this while you still can. I did.


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## Lagpirate

And to think I almost bought them at 75.00 usd a btc... Seriously kicking myself in the tookas right now.









How much higher do you guys think it will go until the bubble bursts?


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## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *47 Knucklehead*
> 
> Yeah, and I'm sure the guy who sold Microsoft stock for $16 a share in July of 2009 is kicking himself too. Stock is like that.


I sold hundreds of BTC for sub $10 a coin.

I've been tempted to 'kick myself' for not waiting and cashing out with half a million dollars (I fully expected BTC to rise further at the time, though I could not have predicted such a dramatic rise) instead of $5k, but it's hard to do so since I did need the money at the time (I have no credit, so when my cash reserves get low, I have to make due) and I still made about a 500% profit.

Not going to dwell on it. Easy come, easy go, as they say.


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## PostalTwinkie

What in gods name is driving this rise in pricing? Is it a self created bubble that is just going to pop?

It isn't as if I am seeing more places take Bitcoin as payment; I really really really don't get it! My only guess is that due to the increased difficulty in mining them, and the desire to have a Bitcoin is the force behind it. Not that they have 'value', but just a situation of _"Well that guy has them, so I want them too."_

Next crash, I am buying a ton of these things....just to sit on.


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## Tomalak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> What in gods name is driving this rise in pricing? Is it a self created bubble that is just going to pop?
> 
> It isn't as if I am seeing more places take Bitcoin as payment; I really really really don't get it! My only guess is that due to the increased difficulty in mining them, and the desire to have a Bitcoin is the force behind it. Not that they have 'value', but just a situation of _"Well that guy has them, so I want them too."_
> 
> Next crash, I am buying a ton of these things....just to sit on.


Greed + the fact that a small market like this one is easily manipulated by those with a lot of bitcoins/money.


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## Zhood

Wow. Now my boss is kicking himself in the ass for not building a couple machines haha. Oh well. You live and learn.

He just doesn't understand it. How someone just creates a currency like that and then it's worth USD, and it's a digital thing. Mind blowing for him.


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## LTC

I had 230 coins back in 2011, this makes me sad... I sold those for around 100USD all in all...


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## Lagpirate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zhood*
> 
> Wow. Now my boss is kicking himself in the ass for not building a couple machines haha. Oh well. You live and learn.
> 
> He just doesn't understand it. How someone just creates a currency like that and then it's worth USD, and it's a digital thing. Mind blowing for him.


Agreed. I'm going to start collecting bottlecaps. I have a feeling they are going to come in handy after the bombs drop....


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## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zhood*
> 
> He just doesn't understand it. How someone just creates a currency like that and then it's worth USD, and it's a digital thing. Mind blowing for him.


Don't tell him people buy and sell virtual TF2 hats for real money.

His head will literally explode.


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## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> What in gods name is driving this rise in pricing? Is it a self created bubble that is just going to pop?


Publicity is a big one. The whole Silk Road shutdown and related fallout attracted major attention to Bitcoin, and any publicity is good publicity.

Also, China recently discovered BTC (not literally but you get the meaning), and this opens up a vast new market.

Finally, we have the established movers and shakers of BTC who see an opportunity.

I expect some sort of crash soon, but probably not as far as many people think, with a fairly rapid recovery (like the last one).


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## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tomalak*
> 
> Greed + the fact that a small market like this one is easily manipulated by those with a lot of bitcoins/money.


This is kind of the scary part here.....

Just recently BT Guild controlled 51%+ of the BTC market....

Within that Guild was a group I called the "1%", just like in real life. These few guys were mining at the TERA Hases a second level......and had a TON of the BTC. It looks like that the BTC market is being manipulated right now by a few that have a majority number of BTC, and are just cashing in on it.....


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## SamTheJarvis

This irregularity makes it completely impossible to use it as an actual currency for buying goods. I'm not going to buy anything if the price of the commodity I'm buying could halve in a week's time.


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## dVeLoPe

ok so like what the hell right now a bitcoin is selling for 600 but how do you purchase them and make a profit if you cant actually mine them??
all you that said you had x amount and sold them for cheap im sorry for you but at least you have a second chance to do it im starting from scratch

I have money to play with if it will net more money please someone enlighten me.


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## Karasu

I had a feeling it was going to start going up even more. I was reading the paper at my job yesterday when it was slow, apparently a Subway 20 minutes from me now accepts Bitcoins and a guy drove from two hours away to buy a sandwich with them, Lol/ So it made me think if it's hitting small time papers like that even, its only going to keep spreading and getting bigger for a while yet.


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## LTC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dVeLoPe*
> 
> ok so like what the hell right now a bitcoin is selling for 600 but how do you purchase them and make a profit if you cant actually mine them??
> all you that said you had x amount and sold them for cheap im sorry for you but at least you have a second chance to do it im starting from scratch
> 
> I have money to play with if it will net more money please someone enlighten me.


It's just like a stock market, when it comes to selling and buying... mtGox is probably a good place to begin with


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## youra6

I had 50+ BC that I sold for 5-6 dollars each about 2 years ago. Back then I was mining a couple of them a day. Now the difficulty has risen so much, its next to impossible to mine new bitcoins.


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## conzilla

First let me say i mine litecoins. Missed to bitcoin bandwagon 3 years ago. but i just cant see how one could spend them knowing how much they can rise and fall in price. A holder would be dumb to spend them and a business would be dumb to take them. I just cant see it becoming a currency. Very few places take them.


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## Zhood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock999*
> 
> Don't tell him people buy and sell virtual TF2 hats for real money.
> 
> His head will literally explode.


That's just like any other in-game trading that happens. People buying game currency for USD is funny. I remember friends dropping hundreds of dollars for Runescape coins.


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## gerikoh

Oh wow!!








How on earth do I get these?


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## farmdve

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *youra6*
> 
> I had 50+ BC that I sold for 5-6 dollars each about 2 years ago. Back then I was mining a couple of them a day. Now the difficulty has risen so much, its next to impossible to mine new bitcoins.


You can buy cloud mining rigs at cex.io.


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## i_hax

Never thought I'd see the day my early 2011 investment of a random motherboard and four 5830's would turn into $75000.

Needless to say, the potential of Bitcoin to reconfigure world finance is the real benefit. Profit for early adopters is a happy side-effect.


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## Quantium40

Just found some bitcoins left on a mining server from a few years ago :-D. Never checked to see if I had any left till now. I can't believe this happened.


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## aidhanc

I should have left my computer mining for longer while the difficulty was low.


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## crackzattic

Can someone post any links to good info on how the mining works and why it isn't possible still? I have heard about it for years and it just runs like folding right? If so why has it become almost impossible to mine coins?


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## Brutuz

Damn, I was about to buy some too.


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## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> Damn, I was about to buy some too.


You still can.

They're not going to drop in value anytime soon. So you might as well snag as many as you can for the next boom before you end up regretting it.

And trust me, you will regret it.


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## MoGTy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *conzilla*
> 
> First let me say i mine litecoins. Missed to bitcoin bandwagon 3 years ago. but i just cant see how one could spend them knowing how much they can rise and fall in price. A holder would be dumb to spend them and a business would be dumb to take them. I just cant see it becoming a currency. Very few places take them.


Just found out about litecoin thanks to you. Fortune here I come.


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## aidhanc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crackzattic*
> 
> Can someone post any links to good info on how the mining works and why it isn't possible still? I have heard about it for years and it just runs like folding right? If so why has it become almost impossible to mine coins?


*This thread* has some good information on mining.

One of the reasons it's becoming more difficult to mine is because of the ASIC miners which mine at crazy hashrates compared to consumer GPUs.


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## llythrus

Off topic, but has anyone seen the price of litecoin?


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## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *llythrus*
> 
> Off topic, but has anyone seen the price of litecoin?


Over $9 dollars on US exchanges and almost $17 in China.

I converted the last of my BTC to LTC at 0.011 a week ago and just converted a sizable portion back about 30 minutes ago at 0.0158, making a tidy profit.


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## hathornd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> The question is if you can grab all the money you can carry and run with it before it does. God. Why did I sell my 50 or so coins at 30 dollars a coin XD


I don't know if that helps the situation at all. Its still damaging to the economy, and so why can we not see the greater good and stop being greedy?

We CAUSE this crap.


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## ASSSETS

It reminds me antiques, it has value (money) because of limit and greed. I'm not talking about historical value.


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## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hathornd*
> 
> I don't know if that helps the situation at all. Its still damaging to the economy, and so why can we not see the greater good and stop being greedy?
> 
> We CAUSE this crap.


Cryptocurrencies aren't damaging the economy, and they aren't going away...quite the opposite actually.


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## Asy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Over $9 dollars on US exchanges and almost $17 in China.
> 
> I converted the last of my BTC to LTC at 0.011 a week ago and just converted a sizable portion back about 30 minutes ago at 0.0158, making a tidy profit.


I got about 750 ltc still, but im holding until BTCchina and mtgox coinbase etc all add LTC to exchange


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## btupsx

Unreal. Just unreal. Knowing where BTC started, and how far it has blasted into the stratosphere.... takes your breath away








Still, I'm skeptical this momentum can continue; there has to be a correction soon.


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## wedge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> BTC has a few good crashes left in it I think (it's had two major corrections before: once from ~20 USD to ~1USD then again from ~230USD to ~60 USD), but barring a truly catastrophic event, the general trend will continue upwards.


+1 That's it exactly.
Personally, I'm waiting til the next big crash before I buy in. Should have bought at 60 when I had the chance... heck if I bought then and sold now, I would have increased my money ten fold, in less than half a year...
My prediction: it will drop below 200 before the end of the year.


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## Creator

Crazy. I sold the 425 LTC I've mined since June or so when I decided to give this mining stuff a shot. If I hadn't been lazy about it, I would have had over 600 LTC. So I'm no longer being lazy about it and my miners are going to be up 100% for what I can do.

At $8.40/LTC I've doubled my hardware my electricity costs. Now I'm thinking about using this money strictly for BTC/LTC trading and seeing where I can go with it. If I can buy back in on the next lows maybe I can double/triple it. I mean damn, LTC was like $1.80 a few months ago. I remember feeling depressed over LTC thinking it was on the path to failure.

Now the question : is it difficult to get USD onto the exchanges? I see I can withdraw very easily as I went from LTC -> USD. I want to withdraw the USD and bring it all back at some point later on, so that I may hopefully double/triple on the next bubble.


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## Yvese

Really wish I got into bitcoins when I first heard about it back in '10. Man..


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## Bonkers

Jesus Christ. I wish I would have bought some last year when I was thinking about it.


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## barkinos98

Good thing i got some cash 2 weeks ago








This+stocks+some betting made me see a second GPU in the near future


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## zemco999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> What in gods name is driving this rise in pricing? Is it a self created bubble that is just going to pop?
> 
> It isn't as if I am seeing more places take Bitcoin as payment; I really really really don't get it! My only guess is that due to the increased difficulty in mining them, and the desire to have a Bitcoin is the force behind it. Not that they have 'value', but just a situation of _"Well that guy has them, so I want them too."_
> 
> Next crash, I am buying a ton of these things....just to sit on.


I don't know if anyone has answered this yet, but I believe it is because silk road 2.0 is in the works


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## seepra

Having followed the development and course of BT for a few years, I cannot emphasize how absolutely terrible it feels to be so poor I literally eat garbage, when I would theoretically have the knowledge to be able to do some investments like this if I just had the capital to begin investing. Hurrrgh


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## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> What in gods name is driving this rise in pricing? Is it a self created bubble that is just going to pop?
> 
> It isn't as if I am seeing more places take Bitcoin as payment; I really really really don't get it! My only guess is that due to the increased difficulty in mining them, and the desire to have a Bitcoin is the force behind it. Not that they have 'value', but just a situation of _"Well that guy has them, so I want them too."_
> 
> Next crash, I am buying a ton of these things....just to sit on.


Bitcoin ATM in Canada --- the biggest driving force

More public exposure (see gov't regulation to make it "legit" .... http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/17/congress-explores-bitcoin-pitfalls-potential/3621445/ , http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/bitcoins-virtual-currency-explained-idiot/story?id=20926230 , http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2013/11/18/bitcoins-price-zooms-ahead-of-u-s-senate-hearing/)

Increasing difficulty (skyrocketing difficulty due to ASICs)

People buying and holding and not selling = more demand than supply
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zhood*
> 
> Wow. Now my boss is kicking himself in the ass for not building a couple machines haha. Oh well. You live and learn.
> 
> He just doesn't understand it. How someone just creates a currency like that and then it's worth USD, and it's a digital thing. Mind blowing for him.


Currency can be anything as long as people attach value to it. Second Life is a good example of this.

I had this discussion with a bunch of older people, they think that their money in the bank savings, CDs, mutual funds are any different. The only difference is you have a bank that has physical branches : all the "money" you have is a bunch of digits on a database that can be wiped out (see Cyprus).

Diamonds for example, are the biggest overvaluation ever. They're good for machine bits but the ones that are worn aren't used for their thermal conductivity or hardness properties...


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## Jeffinslaw

I am so mad right now. I sold some last week at $330 each, I could have doubled the amount I received if I would have waited until today... oh so very mad....


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## Lagpirate

Btc is skyrocketing right now. Up to 720$...how far will this go? I'm predicting 1000 bucks a BTC before it crashes.


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## ElectroGeek007

You mean "tops $700."









Source: Bitcoinity


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## dogbiscuit

Long term trend, not the last price spike.


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## dogbiscuit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lagpirate*
> 
> Btc is skyrocketing right now. Up to 720$...how far will this go? I'm predicting 1000 bucks a BTC before it crashes.


$1500 before xmas.


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## AlphaC

Lagpirate, I doubt it will crash, there will be a _market correction_ once US government hearings finish and the outcome will depend on that hearing outcome

The moment it is legal it will catch on like Paypal's / Popmoney / Quickpay / Square's wildest dreams because it has person to person transactions


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## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElectroGeek007*
> 
> You mean "tops $700."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Bitcoinity


OH MY GOD, I'M SO HAPPY!





































Especially since I used the profit I made from the last boom to buy more coins. But I didn't think the second boom would be so soon.









Best day ever, Kyle. *BEST DAY EVER.*


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## dogbiscuit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock999*
> 
> OH MY GOD, I'M SO HAPPY!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Especially since I used the profit I made from my last boom to buy more coins just in time for the SECOND BOOM!
> 
> Best day ever, Kyle. *BEST DAY EVER.*


Well..... now you mention Paypal......

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-05-16/peter-thiel-gets-bitcoin-bug

Quote:


> Peter Thiel's Founders Fund is leading a group of investors into funding the merchant services firm BitPay.


Thiel has powerful friends - will they really screw up his bitcoin fun for him ?
Quote:


> Thiel founded Palantir Technologies funded by the CIA's venture capital arm In-Q-Tel.


http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/governance.html


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## dVeLoPe

ok so like I have 10,000$ usd to invest how can I purchase coins under 400$ a pop right now


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## Snowmen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dVeLoPe*
> 
> ok so like I have 10,000$ usd to invest how can I purchase coins under 400$ a pop right now


You can't cause they're worth 700$ right now. Reading is easy right?


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dVeLoPe*
> 
> ok so like I have 10,000$ usd to invest how can I purchase coins under 400$ a pop right now


You can't, they are currently trading for $700.


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## dVeLoPe

their has to be a way that's what investing is all about..
you buy low sell expensive. when will the market crash and they will go down to about 250-500 each ??


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## teh_HyDr0iD

Wow, I wish I had savings I'd be willing to play with back when it was $200~


----------



## Xylene

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dVeLoPe*
> 
> their has to be a way that's what investing is all about..
> you buy low sell expensive. when will the market crash and they will go down to about 250-500 each ??


Probably in about seven minutes.


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## dVeLoPe

^^ lol really though this is ridicoulous time to start investing in something!


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## frickfrock999

The next big thing is Litecoin.










Gearing up to mine those as we speak.


----------



## Vagrant Storm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dVeLoPe*
> 
> ok so like I have 10,000$ usd to invest how can I purchase coins under 400$ a pop right now


You'd have to trade special favors with your body to some hairy guy from Tuscany or something. The market rate is the market rate.

Though I'd never put all your investment in one basket. I purchased a 5 coins a while back at $200 some...sold them for $579. However, I only put a fraction of my investment ability into it. I am predicting these to crash pretty hard now. Most every one I know that owned any have sold them. So we might all get a chance to buy cheap again. If you are still sitting on some...I would advise to sell them. I could be wrong of course.


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teh_HyDr0iD*
> 
> Wow, I wish I had savings I'd be willing to play with back when it was $200~


God I remember debating if I should buy them 20 a pop, boy I feel stupid now.

Still have .1 bitcoin laying around though. Wish I bought a ton of litecoin when it was only $1.80 a month ago.


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## dVeLoPe

ok im in how do I start minin litecoins I havea gtx 680 and a gtx555m laptop that I can run 24-8


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dVeLoPe*
> 
> ok im in how do I start minin litecoins I havea gtx 680 and a gtx555m laptop that I can run 24-8


With a Nvidia card your just wasting your money.

I currently mine litecoins myself with my 7950, You just need a script miner and a mining pool.


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dVeLoPe*
> 
> ok im in how do I start minin litecoins I havea gtx 680 and a gtx555m laptop that I can run 24-8


You better start investing in multiple AMD cards if you're serious about it.

A minimum of 2 if you want to make any progress.


----------



## Vagrant Storm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DzillaXx*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *dVeLoPe*
> 
> ok im in how do I start minin litecoins I havea gtx 680 and a gtx555m laptop that I can run 24-8
> 
> 
> 
> With a Nvidia card your just wasting your money.
> 
> I currently mine litecoins myself with my 7950, You just need a script miner and a mining pool.
Click to expand...

Have you actually done the math to see if you are still getting paid more than the electric bill is increasing? I tried it on a 6850 for a while...bit coins though. It wasn't worth it.

At this stage it is probably better to just play the market rather than actually mine...unless you don't pay for electricity.


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## Sir Amik Vase

Is it worth buying $40 worth of litecoin or will they not see the increase in value than bitcoin has seen.


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## barkinos98

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock999*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *dVeLoPe*
> 
> ok im in how do I start minin litecoins I havea gtx 680 and a gtx555m laptop that I can run 24-8
> 
> 
> 
> You better start investing in multiple AMD cards if you're serious about it.
> 
> A minimum of 2 if you want to make any progress.
Click to expand...

I was thinking of purchasing a R9 280X with the money i made from the stock trading, because imo BTC is going to crash hard.
Real soon.


----------



## Bloitz

Soon...


.... but until then, HAPPY DAYTRADING !


----------



## dogbiscuit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vagrant Storm*
> 
> Have you actually done the math to see if you are still getting paid more than the electric bill is increasing? I tried it on a 6850 for a while...bit coins though. It wasn't worth it.
> 
> At this stage it is probably better to just play the market rather than actually mine...unless you don't pay for electricity.


This is no good. People were on about the cost of electricity when BTC was $5. Oo! will I break even ?

If $600 BTC is not enough to compensate for electricity used, what is ?


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barkinos98*
> 
> I was thinking of purchasing a R9 280X with the money i made from the stock trading, because imo BTC is going to crash hard.
> Real soon.


Oh it's definitely going to crash, that much is inevitable.

The next big boom, I'm selling my Bitcoin stash and riding off into the sunset. This past week has been REALLY exciting, but I can't stand this level of stress.

Right now, I'm focusing on that Litecoin action and riding this Bitcoin race till the wheels fall off.


----------



## Vagrant Storm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sir Amik Vase*
> 
> Is it worth buying $40 worth of litecoin or will they not see the increase in value than bitcoin has seen.


Since it just got a large increase I'd wait. people will start to sell as it gets higher and the price should fall again.


----------



## Vagrant Storm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dogbiscuit*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Vagrant Storm*
> 
> Have you actually done the math to see if you are still getting paid more than the electric bill is increasing? I tried it on a 6850 for a while...bit coins though. It wasn't worth it.
> 
> At this stage it is probably better to just play the market rather than actually mine...unless you don't pay for electricity.
> 
> 
> 
> This is no good. People were on about the cost of electricity when BTC was $5. Oo! will I break even ?
> 
> If $600 BTC is not enough to compensate for electricity used, what is ?
Click to expand...

The difficulty has increased. Back when it was $5 you didn't even need a mining pool because you could get a coin on your own fairly easily. Now days you could mine on your own for months with out getting a coin...maybe over a year. I am not sure...it is dang hard though. Mining pools are the only way if you pay for your electricity...and even those didn't pan out for me.


----------



## dVeLoPe

so wher can I actually BUY lite coins?? theirs 12$ each now but if I wait till they drop and buy a bunch at 5$ a pop will that be a guaranteed profit? ill invest like 2000$


----------



## dogbiscuit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vagrant Storm*
> 
> The difficulty has increased. Back when it was $5 you didn't even need a mining pool because you could get a coin on your own fairly easily. Now days you could mine on your own for months with out getting a coin. Mining pools are the only way if you pay for your electricity...and even those didn't pan out for me.


True, but whether it's worthwhile depends on how far BTC goes. 0.0001 of a million dollar BTC is still nice money towards the leccy bill, and good weekend of pizza and beer.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I mined 0.1 BTC a month ago. Not thats worth $60.


----------



## dVeLoPe

ok so seriously how do I BUY litecoins since apparently my NVidia cards cant mine them


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vagrant Storm*
> 
> Have you actually done the math to see if you are still getting paid more than the electric bill is increasing? I tried it on a 6850 for a while...bit coins though. It wasn't worth it.
> 
> At this stage it is probably better to just play the market rather than actually mine...unless you don't pay for electricity.


Well I mine to heat my room up, so really i'm saving money not running a heater. Though with LTC going up like it is, in the long term i'm making money. Don't plan on selling my litecoins for atleast 2-3 years. I also Have a few ASIC bitcoin miners that altogether that uses less then 10 watts for nearly 2gh/s. Pretty much have been converting my BTC into LTC.

Hope LTC is a good investment.


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dVeLoPe*
> 
> ok so seriously how do I BUY litecoins since apparently my NVidia cards cant mine them


I'd suggest buying a Bitcoin first and then exchanging THAT for Litecoins. But if you want to go your way, here's the site.

https://btc-e.com/exchange/ltc_btc


----------



## Vagrant Storm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dogbiscuit*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Vagrant Storm*
> 
> The difficulty has increased. Back when it was $5 you didn't even need a mining pool because you could get a coin on your own fairly easily. Now days you could mine on your own for months with out getting a coin. Mining pools are the only way if you pay for your electricity...and even those didn't pan out for me.
> 
> 
> 
> True, but whether it's worthwhile depends on how far BTC goes. 0.0001 of a million dollar BTC is still nice money towards the leccy bill, and good weekend of pizza and beer.
Click to expand...

It will never get that high...Bit Coin price is driven by demand (greed). The same can be said of Stocks/Bonds, but other things will influence them as the world's situation changes.

As the price rises people will start to sell. With no futures market to add stability the Bit Coin market is going to be a roller coaster once it picks up more momentum. I expect I will be buying more coins shortly...probably at about $200 again. I would have sold them much sooner then I did, but the price rose faster then I could keep tabs on it.


----------



## General121

I am wondering whether to buy now, or wait for a crash and buy em really cheap...Only thing is if they keep going even to 800, I could have a nice 200 more in my pocket right now, but theres the risk of the crash...but I can just cancel the order right?
some site is selling em at 619.


----------



## SandGlass

A bubble, simply put. Any sane person will stay as far as possible from it. Happens in the stock market all the time, if I remember correctly, 4 days ago a person bought 0.9 million $ worth AMD stocks at 3.50 a share, within a minute. HFT... Anyways, stay away, being poor is better than being broke.


----------



## Calibos




----------



## Rar4f

How can i prepare myself for buying of bitcoins? I want to invest in them if they reach low prices. What sites is best, what do i do lol?


----------



## Nightfallx

i'm just waiting for this bubble to pop.


----------



## dogbiscuit




----------



## SuprUsrStan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dogbiscuit*
> 
> This is no good. People were on about the cost of electricity when BTC was $5. Oo! will I break even ?
> 
> If $600 BTC is not enough to compensate for electricity used, what is ?


you're forgetting about the fact that the difficulty of BTC has gone up over 100 times making that 600 per coin much much harder to mine than when it was at 5$ per coin.


----------



## dogbiscuit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> you're forgetting about the fact that the difficulty of BTC has gone up over 100 times making that 600 per coin much much harder to mine than when it was at 5$ per coin.


Fair enough I haven't done the math of it, and I gave up watching BTC when the ASICS came out. I'm just going on how useless all those profitability calculators have turned out to be.

OK so fantasizing that 1BTC = $1,000,000 in the future, like Rik Falkvinge was saying, how long would it take to get .001 of a BTC using GPU's now - say two HD 5850's ?

++++[Edit]++++

I answer my own question - stuck BTC = $1,000,000 into a calculator

So you might scrape 0.00061885 BTC a day, but if it goes stratospheric in price then it would be still a pretty good way to use electricity.

Next difficulty target occurs at block 272159.0 (eta 11.8 days): 670802357.808 / +10.1% [est.]
Difficulty Factor 609482679.888
Hash Rate 750 MH/s
Exchange Rate 1,000,000 ($/BTC)

This Difficulty
Coins Dollars
per Day 0.00061885 BTC $618.85
per Week 0.00433197 BTC $4,331.97
per Month 0.01881312 BTC $18,813.12
this diff (est) 0.00730136 BTC $7,301.36

Next Difficulty [estimated]
Coins Dollars
per Day 0.00056228 BTC $562.28
per Week 0.00393597 BTC $3,935.97
per Month 0.01709336 BTC $17,093.36


----------



## Rar4f

if bitcoin gets low, i am prepared







Would be nice to make a small investment that will pay off and get me another gpu for crossfire setup.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dogbiscuit*
> 
> Fair enough I haven't done the math of it, and I gave up watching BTC when the ASICS came out. I'm just going on how useless all those profitability calculators have turned out to be.
> 
> OK so fantasizing that 1BTC = $1,000,000 in the future, like Rik Falkvinge was saying, how long would it take to get .001 of a BTC using GPU's now - say two HD 5850's ?


I would be more cost effective to buy it than mine it, the current difficulty of mining makes two 7970s worthless.......

I just remember when you could buy a single Bitcoin for a buck or two, it was something ridiculously low. Then they faded out, and it seems like all of a sudden made a big return.

I expect a pretty solid crash at this rate, there are a few people that hold a lot of coins, and at some point they are going to dump them on the "market".


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> I would be more cost effective to buy it than mine it, the current difficulty of mining makes two 7970s worthless.......
> 
> I just remember when you could buy a single Bitcoin for a buck or two, it was something ridiculously low. Then they faded out, and it seems like all of a sudden made a big return.
> 
> I expect a pretty solid crash at this rate, there are a few people that hold a lot of coins, and at some point they are going to dump them on the "market".


If your going to mine with a video card it better be LTC, not BTC. BTC mining requires a ASIC if you want to come out ahead.


----------



## lowfiwhiteguy

So how liquid, exactly, is the BTC?

Like, okay, one BTC now has an assigned value of ~$700. That's fine because that's a somewhat abstract concept (the concept of value and how it is determined). But how realistic is it that, if one had a Bitcoin, and one wanted to trade it in for actual pounds sterling or dollars or euros, etc, that you'd get anywhere near to $700 in your bank account after having gone through the trader/broker process? I know the "fees" are low on the trading sites, but how easy is it to actually go through the process of offloading these things for standard currency? Are people actually buying them often enough and in large enough quantities for it to be possible to sell say, a hoard of 50 Bitcoins for $35,000.00 in one shot?


----------



## dogbiscuit

Quote:


> I would be more cost effective to buy it than mine it, the current difficulty of mining makes two 7970s worthless.......


So I took a hashrate of 1400 MH/s for 2x7970 and stuck it in alloscomp calculator, with a notional rate of BTC = $1,000,000

per Day0.00115519 BTC$1,155.19

So, at current difficulty, your mining would turn out to have been worth $1,155 a day.

That would definitely turn out to be worth it - depending on a reasonable timescale of course.

But 0.00115519 BTC = $0.89 at the moment, so you would have to weight that against electricity cost etc.

89 cents for purchase vs whatever a days worth of mining costs in electricity.

I can't imagine how a society would turn out if BTC was worth a million each - a real cat amongst the pigeons I would think.









[edit] but before this causes spontaneous orgasms at the thought of bitcoin riches, Falkvinge also had a more realistic think about it all lately . Is he right ? I don't know, I just humbly offer it up for debate.


----------



## Jeffinslaw

Bahhh almost $800 on MtGox


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> The moment it is legal it will catch on like Paypal's / Popmoney / Quickpay / Square's wildest dreams because it has person to person transactions


Bitcoin is legal, it simply hasn't been explicitly regulated yet.

Anyway, the days of PayPal and Western Union type money transfer services are numbered. Cryptocurrencies, once they stabilize and are adopted widely, will be able to do essentially everything they do, but better, faster, and cheaper.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vagrant Storm*
> 
> Have you actually done the math to see if you are still getting paid more than the electric bill is increasing? I tried it on a 6850 for a while...bit coins though. It wasn't worth it.
> 
> At this stage it is probably better to just play the market rather than actually mine...unless you don't pay for electricity.


Mining scrypt based altcoins can still be profitable. ASICs have not destroyed the difficulty, and high-end AMD GPUs still provide the best hash rate to power ratios.

But yes, speculating can be even more profitable.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Calibos*


The parallels are greatly exaggerated.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lowfiwhiteguy*
> 
> So how liquid, exactly, is the BTC?
> 
> Like, okay, one BTC now has an assigned value of ~$700. That's fine because that's a somewhat abstract concept (the concept of value and how it is determined). But how realistic is it that, if one had a Bitcoin, and one wanted to trade it in for actual pounds sterling or dollars or euros, etc, that you'd get anywhere near to $700 in your bank account after having gone through the trader/broker process? I know the "fees" are low on the trading sites, but how easy is it to actually go through the process of offloading these things for standard currency? Are people actually buying them often enough and in large enough quantities for it to be possible to sell say, a hoard of 50 Bitcoins for $35,000.00 in one shot?


The process can be rather convoluted, but total cost of all the exchanges and conversions is still fairly minimal.

~50 BTC/ ~40k dollars is a drop in a bucket at the biggest BTC exchanges.


----------



## Daredevil 720

What's the power consumption of a 7950 while mining LTC? Trying to figure out the electricity costs.


----------



## Hexblade

Since August ive been mining and gotten 0.048379, thats around 40 dollars...


----------



## Blk

It just hit $800!!!

edit: and rapidly increasing
$815 now


----------



## dogbiscuit

....$1000 in China

best live chart here

http://bitcoinwisdom.com/


----------



## AddictedGamer93

I would do anything to have 1000 bitcoins right about now.........


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daredevil 720*
> 
> What's the power consumption of a 7950 while mining LTC? Trying to figure out the electricity costs.


Depends on how high you clock it.

At 1100/1700 each of my 7950s is pulling about 180-200w for ~670Khash/s. Optimal hash rate per watt is achieved at lower clocks, but the power cost is trivial enough, relative to potential gains, for me to use the highest stable and safe clocks I can manage.


----------



## Blk

$865 $880 now


----------



## rpgman1

This is insane. How come China comes out with such absurd prices for BTC? It's strange that gold is lower while BTC just keeps growing.


----------



## Neskia

It just cracked $900 O_O


----------



## ZealotKi11er

This is crazy lol.


----------



## Bridden

Oh man I can't wait to see that chart turn red... There is no way this is going to last too much longer.


----------



## dogbiscuit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rpgman1*
> 
> This is insane. How come China comes out with such absurd prices for BTC? It's strange that gold is lower while BTC just keeps growing.


cuz there's over a billion people ?

How much is a GPU in China, anyway ?

Why are people in China suddenly interested in Bitcoin?
Quote:


> "China has been known as a nation of savers, who are always saving for a rainy day," says Lee. "Bitcoin is a digital asset, like real estate, gold, or stock. It is just one more option now. With Bitcoin hard-coded to be limited, it's like a collectible."
> 
> Lee says there aren't many use cases for Bitcoin in China beyond investment and speculation. "China is lagging behind in terms of use cases for businesses, unlike the U.S. and the Western world," says Lee. "We recognize that and it's ok. When China's ready, we'll be there to serve that market."
> 
> But he also says that Bitcoin businesses are not running into the same regulatory and banking problems businesses are in the U.S. He says Bitcoin is a "gray area" legally in China, but that the government and banks are less afraid of gray area businesses than those in the U.S. are.


----------



## SkillzKillz

Trader here.

Watching the Bitcoin exchange is fascinating. This is a classic bubble we have. By the end of the week it's possible for Bitcoin to surge to $2000.

In the past 60 seconds I witness three transactions valued at _over $750,000_ each, something like $4m in Bitcoins traded hands in one minute. There are some big fish in this sea. Actually... the service I'm using to monitor this is now started to lag, as hundreds of transactions are _accelerating_ each second.

P.S. We have a market maker in our hands, buying or selling Bitcoins in transactions ranging between 846-946 BTC.

P.S. I don't provide financial advice, nor condone trading.


----------



## frickfrock999

Wait, where are you guys seeing $900? 0_o


----------



## SandGlass

This is insanity, a bubble without doubt. Some people are going to go bankrupt really soon, and I'm not kidding.
Just popped!
http://bitcoinwisdom.com/


----------



## Creator

BTC is ridiculously unstable right now. It's changing $50 value up and down within 1-2 minutes.


----------



## Bridden

HERE WE GO!

If you have bitcoins SELL NOW!


----------



## SandGlass

]
Just popped lol


----------



## SandGlass

Welcome to the world of bubbles, some people just lost 18% of their value in bitcoins in 3 seconds. Stay away, don't be greedy.


----------



## Creator

This is so much better than the stock market.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rpgman1*
> 
> How come China comes out with such absurd prices for BTC?


Stronger demand and difficulty using foreign BTC exchanges that don't take CNY.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rpgman1*
> 
> It's strange that gold is lower while BTC just keeps growing.


Why is that strange?

Gold is even harder to actually use, or horde, than BTC...not to mention easier to steal, counterfeit, and control. Also, BTC is (relatively speaking) new and that will take time to wear off.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bridden*
> 
> Oh man I can't wait to see that chart turn red... There is no way this is going to last too much longer.


It's red now, but by the time I clock "submit" that could change.

Already dumped my BTC for LTC, and am waiting for the price to dip below what I paid last time...rinse and repeat.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bridden*
> 
> HERE WE GO!
> 
> If you have bitcoins SELL NOW!


I only sell on the rise.


----------



## frickfrock999

It's still at 660 or so for Gox. China is at over $1000 it seems.


----------



## SandGlass

So volatile! And stock markets have a rest period, this is 24/7 trading... Some people are going to make a fortune while others are going to get bankrupt, I want to know the trading volume....


----------



## Creator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock999*
> 
> It's still at 660 or so for Gox. China is at over $1000 it seems.


How is this even possible? What's stopping someone from buy at Gox and selling at China for free profit? If not one person a few with some funds to the side could abuse this?


----------



## frickfrock999

LOL, so much for the "popped bubble". It's coming back already.

That bankruptcy lasted for what, 2 minutes?


----------



## Darth Scabrous

spoke too soo lol


----------



## SandGlass

BTC-e has also just popped


----------



## frickfrock999

I'm already cleaned out so I got no horse in this race. This stuff is way too stressful for me to keep track of every day.

I just enjoy watching the fireworks.


----------



## Vagrant Storm

Damn...I am tempted to call in sick to work tomorrow just to watch this. It is going to be hard to tell what the low will be. Hmm maybe I should sit this one out and get the next bubble. With nothing to stabilize it it should be in constant flux once you get enough traders.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock999*
> 
> I'm already cleaned out so I got no horse in this race. This stuff is way too stressful for me to keep track of every day.
> 
> I just enjoy watching the fireworks.


Heh...I cashed out at $579


----------



## SandGlass

Mt. Gox has also popped, under 610 now


----------



## Seeing Red

This is exciting to watch even though I don't have any bitcoins. lol


----------



## SandGlass

Keep refreshing this page guys!


----------



## Darth Scabrous

I sold my btc, made about $1k. Now, once it pops down to $100-200, I'll sell for btc again and repeat the process!


----------



## SandGlass

bitstamp now under 550$


----------



## frickfrock999

I'm starting a new game.

Every time the word "popped" appears in this thread, take a shot.


----------



## SandGlass

Pop goes the weasel.


----------



## Creator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vagrant Storm*
> 
> Damn...I am tempted to call in sick to work tomorrow just to watch this. It is going to be hard to tell what the low will be. Hmm maybe I should sit this one out and get the next bubble. With nothing to stabilize it it should be in constant flux once you get enough traders.


Amen. With BTC/LTC, it seems that there will always be a bubble to look forward to. People though this wasn't going to happen after the first one. BTC dropped as far as 1/4th peak the value the first time around, so that's what I'll be looking for this time around.


----------



## frickfrock999

Oh snap, China just took a $200 hit.


----------



## SandGlass

We need a professional trading platform, these online charts suck.


----------



## MattGordon

This is one crazy roller coaster of tears and joy.


----------



## SandGlass

People are gonna go bankrupt!


----------



## kpriess

Down to 535.. Crazy stuff..


----------



## SandGlass

I still have around 11.3 bitcoin left, holding it...


----------



## frickfrock999

JESUS CHRIST, WHAT IS HAPPENING IN CHINA?!


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Wow, I think someone pumped and dumped bit coin

I commend thee


----------



## SandGlass

No regulations regarding bitcoin, you don't even have a 3 day wait period.


----------



## Darth Scabrous

WHAT IS GOING ON ITS GOING BACK UP ALREADY????


----------



## SandGlass

It's PURE speculation.


----------



## Creator

I think China just took a lot of our USDs.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

20 bucks says that the price will fall back down to 350 and then another bubble will happen again. If that does happen, someone is screwing around with bitcoin BIG time.


----------



## SandGlass

Anybody still have bitcoin left?


----------



## llythrus

Holding on till next big panic buy.... from people buying low.


----------



## SkillzKillz

Volume is disappearing. Currency is stabilizing around $600... at least I think... there's so much lag with these amateur platforms.


----------



## SandGlass

Yup, these platforms SUCK. We need better tools.


----------



## Blk

$740 now


----------



## SandGlass

It might be 700$ or 1000$ and we won't know, too much latency.


----------



## SandGlass

Dropping in a few more seconds!


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SandGlass*
> 
> Yup, these platforms SUCK. We need better tools.


Do those even exist for Bitcoin trading?

What's a "pro" platform?


----------



## SandGlass

I don't know any "pro platforms" for bitcoin, but triggers would be nice. Dropping to 750 in about half a min I bet.


----------



## Vagrant Storm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> 20 bucks says that the price will fall back down to 350 and then another bubble will happen again. If that does happen, someone is screwing around with bitcoin BIG time.


Nah, that is just just how this is going to work. With Stocks and Bonds there is some external forces deciding if people want to buy or sell. With Bitcoins it is just a game of chicken of the buys vrs the sellers with the squatters sitting there watching

Hmm we might actually be seeing the next bubble forming already...I was expecting it is to drop more first. Damn...if it is trading in the $600+ range from now on...I'm out. Too rich for my blood.


----------



## SkillzKillz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SandGlass*
> 
> It might be 700$ or 1000$ and we won't know, too much latency.


I saw $605 on one screen, $750 on another. This is hella risky.

Anyways, volume is accelerating again. Largest transaction I have witnessed is one transaction for 2,888 bitcoins.


----------



## dVeLoPe

ok so now that its too late to get into the bitcoin game would you guys recommend buying LTC???


----------



## SandGlass

Volume just dropped significantly, either that or people are hesitant.


----------



## Twist86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> This is going to explode like the housing bubble.


Course it is...reason you sell out when it's high and then buy again once it pops and resets


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vagrant Storm*
> 
> Nah, that is just just how this is going to work. With Stocks and Bonds there is some external forces deciding if people want to buy or sell. With Bitcoins it is just a game of chicken of the buys vrs the sellers with the squatters sitting there watching


You are nuts to think there isn't market manipulation going on here.

There is a small portion of the Bitcoin community that controls a very large amount of Bitcoins, depending on the source you look at, they control the majority of Bitcoins.


----------



## SandGlass

A person is starting to buy up bitcoin at around 701 like crazy, at least 20k changed hands.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock999*
> 
> Do those even exist for Bitcoin trading?
> 
> What's a "pro" platform?


Not yet.

And something with far higher capacity and lower latency.

Personally, I rather like it this way, makes things exciting...not knowing if my trade was even queued correctly, or when the site will crash, or if latency will cause me to get a lucky break. Stock markets are too regimented, too reliable, too standardized.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> You are nuts to think there isn't market manipulation going on here.
> 
> There is a small portion of the Bitcoin community that controls a very large amount of Bitcoins, depending on the source you look at, they control the majority of Bitcoins.


Of course there is manipulation. It's a given.

And they don't need to control a majority. Most BTC traders are clueless, and all you need to do is fart in the direction you want the market to go and it's *******BBQ PANIC SELL....then the manipulators score some bargain BTC and start the pump back up.


----------



## SandGlass

I have one question about bitcoin trading, is there a broker? Is it done by a computer, or is it decided by a human? Is there DMA?


----------



## SandGlass

http://bitcoinwisdom.com
^Link for the charts and hopefully near real time data.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SandGlass*
> 
> I have one question about bitcoin trading, is there a broker? Is it done by a computer, or is it decided by a human? Is there DMA?


There is no standard. Every exchange does things their own way and there are at least half a dozen large exchanges.

I'm sure some exchanges have a crackhead monkey with a fist full of dice or a dartboard calling the shots at random, but most are probably whatever software platform was cheapest to implement at the time.


----------



## Zhood

Title says 1K, but am I seeing that it's going back down now? At 727 on my screen.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zhood*
> 
> Title says 1K, but am I seeing that it's going back down now? At 727 on my screen.


1000 dollar BTC is soooo five minutes ago....and possibly 15 minutes from now.


----------



## pioneerisloud

My 16 or 17 LTC went from $60 yesterday to almost $200 today.









I'm holding. Last bubble of BTC pumped it to $200. This one so far has hit $1000. What's the next bubble 6 months down the road going to do? I'll have a lot more LTC at that time too.

I'm holding till the right time myself.


----------



## Zhood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pioneerisloud*
> 
> My 16 or 17 LTC went from $60 yesterday to almost $200 today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm holding. Last bubble of BTC pumped it to $200. This one so far has hit $1000. What's the next bubble 6 months down the road going to do? I'll have a lot more LTC at that time too.
> 
> I'm holding till the right time myself.


5 second bubble.


----------



## SandGlass

No regulation whatsoever... still thinking about the time few days back when a person bought 0.9 million$ of AMD shares at $3.50 in less than 1 minute... all we need for bitcoin is ultra-low latency access, a dedicated broker with a good platform, and APIs, and we're ready to roll the dice...


----------



## Vagrant Storm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Vagrant Storm*
> 
> Nah, that is just just how this is going to work. With Stocks and Bonds there is some external forces deciding if people want to buy or sell. With Bitcoins it is just a game of chicken of the buys vrs the sellers with the squatters sitting there watching
> 
> 
> 
> You are nuts to think there isn't market manipulation going on here.
> 
> There is a small portion of the Bitcoin community that controls a very large amount of Bitcoins, depending on the source you look at, they control the majority of Bitcoins.
Click to expand...

That is just normal though...I don't even consider that manipulation. Just part of trading. us day traders just have sneak around in their shadows. They are all apart of the game of chicken I was taking about.


----------



## frickfrock999

Lol, I wonder how many fortunes were made and broken today.


----------



## mk16

685 to 710 right now. daum


----------



## SandGlass

Probably a few hundred people that lost at least in the few thousand range, thousands of people that lost at least $100, and countless people that lost a few dollars. As for the people that made money, probably there are less than 50 that made more than a few k, but at least a few hundred that made some amount of money.


----------



## SkillzKillz

Okay serious question now: for someone who's an expert on Bitcoin, can you explain how secure it is and if it's possible for Bitcoin to be just a Ponzi Scheme?


----------



## Creator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dVeLoPe*
> 
> ok so now that its too late to get into the bitcoin game would you guys recommend buying LTC???


Right now? Hell no. When it stabilizes out after this, sure. It's straight up 100% gambling for short term profits right now. Buying right now is a one way trip to the insane asylum as you watch your coins go up and down 10% in value by the minute.

It's fun to watch but absolutely not something I'd want to be a part of.


----------



## SkillzKillz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SandGlass*
> 
> Probably a few hundred people that lost at least in the few thousand range, thousands of people that lost at least $100, and countless people that lost a few dollars. As for the people that made money, probably there are less than 50 that made more than a few k, but at least a few hundred that made some amount of money.


There are big-time investors that own Bitcoin as well (net worths in the $500m range), also some funds that have a small stake. it's unsure how much they own, but with today's surge following the political news there are many big fish in this game.


----------



## SandGlass

I'm no expert, but it's probably not what we call a traditional ponzi scheme. For one thing, as far as we know, the original inventor did not make any significant profit. Secondly, we're only exchanging numbers, and bitcoin has not physical backing(weird when you think about it, but the closest physical backing is a Watt Hour for bitcoin, essentially energy, and all this value bitcoin has accumulated seems to be entirely psychological). But I think it's highly likely a few(probably less than 30) people were able to highly influence the price of bitcoin, and they were able to make off with huge profits.


----------



## pyra

Would it be worth buying a second 6970 or a 6990 and mining LTC for the next few months? was thinking about moving my rig to work so I have no electricity costs.

I'm getting 473khash/s with one 6970, does that sound low?


----------



## whtchocla7e

This thing goes from $600 to $1000 in a single day.
It's all beyond obvious to me at this point...


----------



## Microtom

So, where do I short this thing?


----------



## Thingamajig

I wouldn't buy into this media hype over bitcoin. This is a goldrush that sailed long ago and by participating, all you're doing is competing with the big names who have the financial backing to invest in ASIC hardware and other, highly expensive equipment to mine.

I've watched bitcoin for a while now, and yes, i expect to buy in once it crashes - just for a future investment - but when that'll be, i don't know. I certainly don't intend on taking any financial risks on something which is clearly being manipulated.

I also wouldn't even consider mining unless 1. eletricity was free or 2. I had ASIC hardware that consumes little to no power, and even then with the vast number of people/companies mining with powerful hardware, you have no chance of competing.


----------



## Fremish

And all of the little overclockers here at OCN crowded the forum on BTC and were never seen again.


----------



## cam51037

Did bitcoin really hit $1000? I'm watching the markets here and the highest I've seen is just over $900....

Also, to everyone saying "maybe I should buy a new GPU to mine" remember that this market is extremely volatile, it won't mean you'll make any money let alone pay off a video card. But if you want to, go for it I guess.


----------



## SandGlass

Hehehe, I bet if every single GPU owned by ever single overclocker that has ever visted this forum was added together, it wouldn't be able to match a $5000 ASIC or FPGA.


----------



## Testier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SandGlass*
> 
> Hehehe, I bet if every single GPU owned by ever single overclocker that has ever visted this forum was added together, it wouldn't be able to match a $5000 ASIC or FPGA.


ASIC is a very very efficient way to mine.


----------



## cam51037

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SandGlass*
> 
> Hehehe, I bet if every single GPU owned by ever single overclocker that has ever visted this forum was added together, it wouldn't be able to match a $5000 ASIC or FPGA.


Meaning the ASIC would have a higher speed? I agree, you can purchase 2TH/s for around $6000 for January delivery now.

For comparison, a 7950 does around 650MH/s when configured correctly.


----------



## thanos999

i recenty inherited some money from my father who died early this year i dont no what to do with it ?
it isnt worth putting in a savings account cause the interest is so low and i dont now anything about stocks and shares is it worth me investing some off my inheritance in bitcoins ?
if so should i invest for a short term or a long term?
i could afford to invest about £3k
also whats this mining bitcoins i now it involves the gpu chip is it worth me getting a couple more gtx760 to put in my rig or build a rige for bitcoin mining? if it worth me to build a rig what chip should i use an i3/i5/i7 or jump to socket 2011 and use a xenon or ivy e?


----------



## zemco999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thanos999*
> 
> i recenty inherited some money from my father who died early this year i dont no what to do with it ?
> it isnt worth putting in a savings account cause the interest is so low and i dont now anything about stocks and shares is it worth me investing some off my inheritance in bitcoins ?
> if so should i invest for a short term or a long term?
> i could afford to invest about £3k
> also whats this mining bitcoins i now it involves the gpu chip is it worth me getting a couple more gtx760 to put in my rig or build a rige for bitcoin mining? if it worth me to build a rig what chip should i use an i3/i5/i7 or jump to socket 2011 and use a xenon or ivy e?


If you are going to invest, wait for the big crash. Or for it to at least plateau. As for the 760's I don't believe they have a strong hash (or whatever it is called) It seems to be dominated by the AMD market.

I'm sorry to hear about your father, happens to all of us at some point. In my opinion don't waste the money on something like mining. put it towards something you will remember forever, and have the ability to look back and have a memory to think about. Thats just my







though. Good luck on your decision







Don't just jump into the fire though, wait, and research first!


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thanos999*
> 
> i recenty inherited some money from my father who died early this year i dont no what to do with it ?
> it isnt worth putting in a savings account cause the interest is so low and i dont now anything about stocks and shares is it worth me investing some off my inheritance in bitcoins ?
> if so should i invest for a short term or a long term?
> i could afford to invest about £3k
> also whats this mining bitcoins i now it involves the gpu chip is it worth me getting a couple more gtx760 to put in my rig or build a rige for bitcoin mining? if it worth me to build a rig what chip should i use an i3/i5/i7 or jump to socket 2011 and use a xenon or ivy e?


Build him a nice monument / "memorial" first instead of being greedy and/or foolish and gambling it on bitcoin.


----------



## SkillzKillz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thanos999*
> 
> i recenty inherited some money from my father who died early this year i dont no what to do with it ?
> it isnt worth putting in a savings account cause the interest is so low and i dont now anything about stocks and shares is it worth me investing some off my inheritance in bitcoins ?
> if so should i invest for a short term or a long term?
> i could afford to invest about £3k
> also whats this mining bitcoins i now it involves the gpu chip is it worth me getting a couple more gtx760 to put in my rig or build a rige for bitcoin mining? if it worth me to build a rig what chip should i use an i3/i5/i7 or jump to socket 2011 and use a xenon or ivy e?


Speak to a financial advisor before you learn the hard way.


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thanos999*
> 
> i recenty inherited some money from my father who died early this year i dont no what to do with it ?
> it isnt worth putting in a savings account cause the interest is so low and i dont now anything about stocks and shares is it worth me investing some off my inheritance in bitcoins ?
> if so should i invest for a short term or a long term?
> i could afford to invest about £3k
> also whats this mining bitcoins i now it involves the gpu chip is it worth me getting a couple more gtx760 to put in my rig or build a rige for bitcoin mining? if it worth me to build a rig what chip should i use an i3/i5/i7 or jump to socket 2011 and use a xenon or ivy e?


Definitely don't put it into a savings account. Those interest rates are so low, you're better off without it.

I'd say invest a little bit before going full blown. Say $500 seed money just to get a feel for the market and what you're interested in.

Definitely research for a few days beforehand though. I was watching these Bitcoin prices all week and it's INSANELY stressful. I'm just glad I sold when I did and managed to get away with a bit more.

Oh, and don't bother mining Bitcoins anymore. The time for that is long gone.

Look into Litecoins if you're interested in up and coming currencies.


----------



## polizei

So...can someone explain this in very simple terms? I've heard of BitCoin, but only recently, and know nothing about it.

Basically, if I were to install the mining program and run my computer all day, everyday, how much BitCoin would it generate per day on average? I understand it's random, but how long would it take on average to get 1 BitCoin?


----------



## zemco999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *polizei*
> 
> So...can someone explain this in very simple terms? I've heard of BitCoin, but only recently, and know nothing about it.
> 
> Basically, if I were to install the mining program and run my computer all day, everyday, how much BitCoin would it generate per day on average? I understand it's random, but how long would it take on average to get 1 BitCoin?


It all depends on what equipment you are using for mining. If you are in a group mining, your payout is based on how much your pc contributed.


----------



## i_hax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *polizei*
> 
> Basically, if I were to install the mining program and run my computer all day, everyday, how much BitCoin would it generate per day on average? I understand it's random, but how long would it take on average to get 1 BitCoin?


A GPU is no longer suitable for mining. You had to be around in 2011 (and I suppose 2012) for that. Using your current rig, you will lose money due to electricity costs and hardware wear and tear.

You are better off investing directly in Bitcoin. Also keeping in mind this isn't a get-rich-quick scheme - It's a huge financial risk. Even in 2011, us miners who dumped thousands into hardware took a huge risk (albeit owning physical graphics cards that could be resold).


----------



## ticklemedaly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thanos999*
> 
> i recenty inherited some money from my father who died early this year i dont no what to do with it ?
> it isnt worth putting in a savings account cause the interest is so low and i dont now anything about stocks and shares is it worth me investing some off my inheritance in bitcoins ?
> if so should i invest for a short term or a long term?
> i could afford to invest about £3k
> also whats this mining bitcoins i now it involves the gpu chip is it worth me getting a couple more gtx760 to put in my rig or build a rige for bitcoin mining? if it worth me to build a rig what chip should i use an i3/i5/i7 or jump to socket 2011 and use a xenon or ivy e?


Sorry to hear.

Invest in a college education. $0.02

Ryan


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thanos999*
> 
> i recenty inherited some money from my father who died early this year i dont no what to do with it ?
> it isnt worth putting in a savings account cause the interest is so low and i dont now anything about stocks and shares is it worth me investing some off my inheritance in bitcoins ?
> if so should i invest for a short term or a long term?
> i could afford to invest about £3k
> also whats this mining bitcoins i now it involves the gpu chip is it worth me getting a couple more gtx760 to put in my rig or build a rige for bitcoin mining? if it worth me to build a rig what chip should i use an i3/i5/i7 or jump to socket 2011 and use a xenon or ivy e?


Depending on how old you are, you could do a roth IRA

You could also buy gold or bonds.

Only put 1K into an investment account.


----------



## dVeLoPe

I want to invest in litecoins before I miss the big bang again once the market crashes..

mining them I would need ati gpu right?? cant possibly do it with NVidia??


----------



## thanos999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> Depending on how old you are, you could do a roth IRA
> 
> You could also buy gold or bonds.
> 
> Only put 1K into an investment account.


whats the irish republican army got to do with it they are terroists?

i could buy gold for a long term investment

at the moment im thinking off putting it all in a savings accont cause i dont no what else to do with it


----------



## rubicsphere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dVeLoPe*
> 
> I want to invest in litecoins before I miss the big bang again once the market crashes..
> 
> mining them I would need ati gpu right?? cant possibly do it with NVidia??


You can mine with Nvidia but its just not economical. My GTX 780 will hit 412 kh/s pulling 225 watts while my 7950 does 648 kh/s pulling the same 225 watts.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thanos999*
> 
> whats the irish republican army got to do with it they are terroists?
> 
> i could buy gold for a long term investment
> 
> at the moment im thinking off putting it all in a savings accont cause i dont no what else to do with it


LOL.









But no. IRA= individual retirement fund.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roth_IRA


----------



## thanos999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tjj226 Angel*
> 
> LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But no. IRA= individual retirement fund.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roth_IRA


not applicable in my country in fact pensions are the worst investment possible at the moment lose more money quicker than horse racing


----------



## Seeing Red

Hmmm, thinking about building a Litecoin rig while it's still economical...

With all the spare parts I have I would just need a CPU and some GPUs. 7950s are especially cheap right now.


----------



## My Desired Display Name

It's probably been answered before, but is there any way to "cash out?"


----------



## Creator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seeing Red*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm, thinking about building a Litecoin rig while it's still economical...
> 
> With all the spare parts I have I would just need a CPU and some GPUs. 7950s are especially cheap right now.


I'm waiting for Black Friday myself to rearrange and upgrade myself from around 4300 kH/s peak to around 5500 kH/s, without building an entirely separate rig. Assuming $175 HD 7950 Black Friday specials I'll be looking at at about $300 to make up after I sell the cards they will be replacing. And if LTC prices stay where they are I'd be looking at ~2 months tops to make up the upgrade cost assuming difficulty increase. Either way I'm well in the green now. Whatever LTC I mine over the next 4-5 months (good weather for mining) I won't be selling until LTC gets around the $18-$20, which probably won't be until the next bubble another year from now.


----------



## legoman786

All the discussion is right here:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1398219/official-bitcoin-litecoin-digitalcoin-and-all-crypto-currencies-club-and-general-information-thread/0_100


----------



## aksthem1

Well this sucks. Cashing out for $3 each, years ago. Makes me a bit sad.


----------



## caenlen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aksthem1*
> 
> Well this sucks. Cashing out for $3 each, years ago. Makes me a bit sad.


bitcoin is a stock market just like the NYSE now... hokies cashed out 30 bitocins at 22k in his bank now, but it just topped 1000 not long ago, so he coulda broke 30k if he waited, or he coulda busted.

bitcoin is no longer fun its just a stock exchange and with the rich people now getting involved they are gonna control it all.


----------



## aksthem1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *caenlen*
> 
> bitcoin is a stock market just like the NYSE now... hokies cashed out 30 bitocins at 22k in his bank now, but it just topped 1000 not long ago, so he coulda broke 30k if he waited, or he coulda busted.
> 
> bitcoin is no longer fun its just a stock exchange and with the rich people now getting involved they are gonna control it all.


I've always viewed just like trading currency. But the thing is Bitcoin can be really unpredictable at times. I decided to cash out, because I was impatient and wanted the money. I would have had $40k if I waited though.


----------



## legoman786

I'm fighting Deepbit to get them to release the 0.56 BTC I have there right now. :\


----------



## rudyae86

Man this whole bitcoin thing is crazyyy...mmm now i feel like mining LTC...im new to this but i wanna try lol


----------



## Thiefofspades

I used to have a wallet but i uninstalled it, how do i get it back?


----------



## legoman786

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thiefofspades*
> 
> I used to have a wallet but i uninstalled it, how do i get it back?


If you backed up your APPDATA folder, it should still be there. If you've encrypted it and forgot your password... Heh, good luck.


----------



## Thiefofspades

Yeah there isn't anything related to bitcoins in my appdata, guess i'm out of luck.


----------



## Jamar16

why do i have that sneaky feeling of the needle getting ever so close to that balloon? Amazing how it surged 100s in only a few hours dang....


----------



## Nightfallx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jamar16*
> 
> why do i have that sneaky feeling of the needle getting ever so close to that balloon? Amazing how it surged 100s in only a few hours dang....


that's what i'm saying, I can't wait to see what happens







.


----------



## Tjj226 Angel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thanos999*
> 
> not applicable in my country in fact pensions are the worst investment possible at the moment lose more money quicker than horse racing


Derp. I totally missed the "pounds" symbol.

It has been a long day.









Bonds are still a great way to go. They are pretty darn safe and they are more profitable than a bank account.

Gold, oil, platinum, and so on would not be bad.

Even buying stock of a start up company would not be too bad either.

IDK if you would mind trading currency, but you could buy Chinese currency. If you put all your money into chinese currency and it went up 1 (what ever you call penny (((watch the british name for a penny BE penny)))) then you will have made a couple hundred bucks. If you look at the long term investment into Yuan, the charts are pretty stable with an upwards incline. Plus, the british pound is declining while the Yuan is inclining. So you might stand to make even more.


----------



## CyberWolf575

Really hating myself for selling 280 of them for 100 each back in the day


----------



## MoGTy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CyberWolf575*
> 
> Really hating myself for selling 280 of them for 100 each back in the day


That's trading for you my friend. You win some, you lose some.
You should be glad that you didn't actually lose money like in a real stock market


----------



## akromatic

this rise is probly due to the amount of cryptlocker victims


----------



## farmdve

Mini-crash. Gox down < 600.


----------



## nitrubbb

LOL this is ridicilous


----------



## Lagpirate

And it's going back up.....what a roller coaster ride.


----------



## farmdve

I don't think we will see those prices anymore, at least not anytime soon. We should fall more, but if we don't and we instead rise, it may be time to buy.


----------



## SkillzKillz

Can we correct the title please? The currency hit $900 USD, not $1,000. There's a massive difference between the two in terms of resistance.


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkillzKillz*
> 
> Can we correct the title please? The currency hit $900 USD, not $1,000. There's a massive difference between the two in terms of resistance.


It actually hit $1,000.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-18/bitcoin-trades-over-1000-btc-china-exchange-crashes-promptly-thereafter

Plus, I was there last night and saw it hit $1,000.


----------



## SkillzKillz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock999*
> 
> It actually hit $1,000.
> 
> http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-11-18/bitcoin-trades-over-1000-btc-china-exchange-crashes-promptly-thereafter
> 
> Plus, I was there last night and saw it hit $1,000.


According to that link it hit $900 USD on Mt. Gox and ¥6950 on the Chinese exchange. At which point a user could exchange that ¥ for over $1100 USD. So, I suppose that's fair even though I don't like how everyone is wording it.


----------



## barkinos98

Ughhhhh
I wish i had some spare BTCs lying around








I'm going to buy other coins as BTC is pretty much dead (imo) because it will either never:

-go low back to something like $300-400
or
-if it goes go down, it wont go up as high as this.

for now LTC seems the best alternative, bye bye allowance!


----------



## Lagpirate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barkinos98*
> 
> Ughhhhh
> I wish i had some spare BTCs lying around
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to buy other coins as BTC is pretty much dead (imo) because it will either never:
> 
> -go low back to something like $300-400
> or
> -if it goes go down, it wont go up as high as this.
> 
> for now LTC seems the best alternative, bye bye allowance!


No offense, but how can you possibly know that? There is absolutely no way to anticipate what bitcoin will be worth tomorrow, much less ten minutes from now. A Bitcoin will only ever be worth what someone is willing to pay for it. It's all based on demand.


----------



## mtcn77

So, I am guessing the federal reserve is printing 24/7.


----------



## felon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> BTC has a few good crashes left in it I think (it's had two major corrections before: once from ~20 USD to ~1USD then again from ~230USD to ~60 USD), but barring a truly catastrophic event, the general trend will continue upwards.


what good is BTC when you'll have lots of difficulty cashing them out. Since "exchangers" are required to have the cash value to send to you, people aren't going to be able to cash out larger amounts. Most exchangers have a max of 2k


----------



## legoman786

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *felon*
> 
> what good is BTC when you'll have lots of difficulty cashing them out. Since "exchangers" are required to have the cash value to send to you, people aren't going to be able to cash out larger amounts. Most exchangers have a max of 2k


http://www.overclock.net/t/1398219/official-bitcoin-litecoin-digitalcoin-and-all-crypto-currencies-club-and-general-information-thread/3100_100#post_21217045

/your rant


----------



## felon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *legoman786*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1398219/official-bitcoin-litecoin-digitalcoin-and-all-crypto-currencies-club-and-general-information-thread/3100_100#post_21217045
> 
> /your rant


That wasn't a rant. So one guy cashed out by some special means and suddenly this is accessible to anyone?

yea, no. Again, good luck cashing out. Also good luck not losing your US bank account


----------



## RoNNeRT

I have a machine with 2x AMD 5770s and another machine with 2x 6850s. Would it be worth taking a shot at mining LiteCoins?


----------



## Creator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *felon*
> 
> That wasn't a rant. So one guy cashed out by some special means and suddenly this is accessible to anyone?
> 
> yea, no. Again, good luck cashing out. Also good luck not losing your US bank account


It's really easy to cash out. Just go to BTC-e and take a look at the buy/sell orders. There are always orders that go well into the 5-digit range. You'll even 6-digits show up here and there.


----------



## felon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creator*
> 
> It's really easy to cash out. Just go to BTC-e and take a look at the buy/sell orders. There are always orders that go well into the 5-digit range. You'll even 6-digits show up here and there.


My bank account got frozen months back when I tried to purchase bitcoins. Reason: funds unavailable due to specific action by the rdfi or by legal action

watchout...not only is this a shady area but the banks do not like this at all


----------



## Ashuiegi

the thing is that like said before from one day to another anybody could refuse them or governement could even declare them a threat to national currencies or whatever and make them illegal .
There is no one backing these except speculation and market , but market can be heavily manipulated , you buy everything you can , price rise , sell a large bunch price drop everybody panic and sell , you buy back everything cheap and wait for it to go back up , it s pretty much a classic , its being done with silver and gold all the time. Little player are the one paying for the benefits of large investor that manipulate the market , stock exchange is working on that , little people losing their saving to the big money player , very few little player end up richer ,....


----------



## burningrave101

I earned a few BTC's mining back in 2011 and ended up not doing anything with them when the price crashed. Now I can't even remember for sure what online wallet I stored them in and chances are the account was deleted due to inactivity for 2 years lol.


----------



## Playapplepie

I have a feeling this Bitcoin market is going to inflate and then crash real hard.


----------



## MoGTy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Playapplepie*
> 
> I have a feeling this Bitcoin market is going to inflate and then crash real hard.


It has kinda dropped in the past 12 hours but it will not crash and burn if that's what you meant. It has a lot of value inside and it will very likely continue to rise in the long term with more and more countries adopting it as a valid currency.

Same thing goes for LTC in the long run.


----------



## Shiftstealth

Does this mean mining is profitable again?


----------



## legoman786

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> Does this mean mining is profitable again?


See this thread: http://www.overclock.net/t/1398219/official-bitcoin-litecoin-digitalcoin-and-all-crypto-currencies-club-and-general-information-thread/0_100


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Up close to $1000 and back down by almost 50% in less than a day.....

As I said; a few people with a lot of BTC manipulated the market, cashed out, and now things are settling again. Surprise, surprise.....


----------



## Vagrant Storm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Up to close to $1000 and back down by almost 50% in less than a day.....
> 
> As I said; a few people with a lot of BTC manipulated the market, cashed out, and now things are settling again. Surprise, surprise.....


I was watching it for while last night. It was interesting. you see a bunch of little tiny buy orders go through...like .15 bit coins at slightly over market value and the extra trading volume was increasing the price I think. Then you'd see a sale for 25 coins out of no where. I see this sort of thing with normal stocks too, but with the Bitcoins it seems to be much more effective because the value is solely driven by the buying and selling and not future actions a company is rumored to do or speculation on government policy or whatever.


----------



## Creator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MoGTy*
> 
> It has kinda dropped in the past 12 hours but it will not crash and burn if that's what you meant. It has a lot of value inside and it will very likely continue to rise in the long term with more and more countries adopting it as a valid currency.
> 
> Same thing goes for LTC in the long run.


I'm predicting $450-ish next stop. Whatever happened seems like it's dead now. It's been stable at $600 for hours now (which seems like forever in the BTC market the way things have been lately) and it seems like there isn't much real interest to push it higher. It's a good time for the big boys to slowly leak out their supply to those who feel safe (because of price stability) to buy back in because $600 seems like a discount right now compared to $800-$1000.









The same thing happened with the last $250 rise from a year ago. It pulled back quickly and traded around the $200 mark for a while. From there it was 2 steps back and 1 step forward all the way to $65. It took a while to get there though, so don't be lured into a false sense of security with periodic stable prices right now.

I'll buy back in if/when BTC drops back to $250. And in the mean time, I will continue to mine LTC at pure profit now.


----------



## grunion

It makes me sick to my stomach, literally could have retired if I sat on all the bitcoins I've mined.


----------



## doomlord52

Oh bitcoin, what a gong-show.

The market drop wasn't exactly surprising. It needed a price correction.


----------



## 8800GT

Lol I have a few thousand litecoins, I'm just going to sit on every single one for a couple years


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiftstealth*
> 
> Does this mean mining is profitable again?


Not even close. That's an area dominated by heavyweight backers who spend more on one bitcoin machine than the majority of us make in a year.









If you want to mine, go mine some Litecoins. That's what I'm doing soon.

I'm not making the same mistake I did 2 years ago by not taking advantage of such a big up and comer.


----------



## farmdve

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock999*
> 
> Not even close. That's an area dominated by heavyweight backers who spend more on one bitcoin machine than the majority of us make in a year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to mine, go mine some Litecoins. That's what I'm doing soon.
> 
> I'm not making the same mistake I did 2 years ago by not taking advantage of such a big up and comer.


Sadly, there is no point. Mining litecoins is only slightly profitable. If I were to mine it, I'd get only 30 dollars per month of profit, possibly even less.


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve*
> 
> Sadly, there is no point. Mining litecoins is only slightly profitable. If I were to mine it, I'd get only 30 dollars per month of profit, possibly even less.


You're going by it's current rate though. Not accounting for potential growth or future accomplishments.

People said the exact same thing about Bitcoin a year ago.


----------



## Lagpirate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock999*
> 
> You're going by it's current rate though. Not accounting for potential growth or future accomplishments.
> 
> People said the exact same thing about Bitcoin a year ago.


Frick makes a really good point. LTC seems to be up-and-coming. I'm going to start mining them now before it becomes too difficult like BTC


----------



## farmdve

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock999*
> 
> You're going by it's current rate though. Not accounting for potential growth or future accomplishments.
> 
> People said the exact same thing about Bitcoin a year ago.


I have experienced what you mean, I sold 1500ltc I mined last year in April, they were worthless, now I would have had 6-7k USD. But I still think with current difficulty you wouldn't mine nearly enough for it to matter.


----------



## Faint

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock999*
> 
> Not even close. That's an area dominated by heavyweight backers who spend more on one bitcoin machine than the majority of us make in a year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to mine, go mine some Litecoins. That's what I'm doing soon.
> 
> I'm not making the same mistake I did 2 years ago by not taking advantage of such a big up and comer.


I hear you. If you have/know/are in a LTC pool, let me know.


----------



## barkinos98

Im just going to buy coins rather than invest in a new gpu and mine on it... (i dont have AMD)
Might even be better for some unless you have 79xx or something


----------



## dVeLoPe

^^ im with you I aswell want to purchase coins where can I?


----------



## Twinnuke

This whole thing is a fluke and a complete and total scam.


----------



## Jeffinslaw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twinnuke*
> 
> This whole thing is a fluke and a complete and total scam.


Have you been living under a rock?


----------



## Twinnuke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffinslaw*
> 
> Have you been living under a rock?


No I've been watching a virtual currency fluctuate rapidly tripling value and dropping back down in 2 months time. I've been reading how criminals hold in-ordinate amounts of currency where they can manipulate the market to make money when they need to wash their money or cash out and then crash it afterwards. I'm watching people spend 10$ in electricity to mine less than 20 cents worth of a bit coin.


----------



## Peanuts4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffinslaw*
> 
> Have you been living under a rock?


I've got monopoly money and pet rocks for sale if you would like to diversify your portfolio.


----------



## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barkinos98*
> 
> Im just going to buy coins rather than invest in a new gpu and mine on it... (i dont have AMD)
> Might even be better for some unless you have 79xx or something


This really isn't a bad strategy. If a person planned on buying say a new 7970 rig purely for mining ltc, we all know ltc will go up, even if slightly. Why not spend that investment on a gamble of the coin cost rather than power and depreciation of hardware. With some good deals, you could build a dual 7970 rig for ~$800. That's about 100 ltc currently. Personally, I don't see ltc going through the huge fluctuations that bitcoin has, but it will go up in value over time.


----------



## barkinos98

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twinnuke*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Jeffinslaw*
> 
> Have you been living under a rock?
> 
> 
> 
> No I've been watching a virtual currency fluctuate rapidly tripling value and dropping back down in 2 months time. I've been reading how criminals hold in-ordinate amounts of currency where they can manipulate the market to make money when they need to wash their money or cash out and then crash it afterwards. I'm watching people spend *10$ in electricity to mine less than 20 cents worth of a bit coin*
Click to expand...

thats why you buy coins as of 2013 because mining them is simply too hard and too inefficient for what it can do.
instead of spending $500-550 for 2x used HD7970 you can buy literally a crap ton of other coins like LTC and rock on.
if you have AMD cards, good but if not buying coins are simply better in every aspect ever imaginable.


----------



## Yvese

It's better to just buy coins while it's low ( like LTC is right now ) then sit on it for a year or two. Maybe even less depending on the market and whether you want out or not.

Fact of the matter is.. bitcoins and others like it are the real deal. Those that invested in it in the early stages are raking in the $$$.

LTC is just waiting to explode. I doubt it will ever get close to where bitcoin is right now, but even if it only doubles in a few months, that's still an amazing investment.


----------



## Twinnuke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *barkinos98*
> 
> thats why you buy coins as of 2013 because mining them is simply too hard and too inefficient for what it can do.
> instead of spending $500-550 for 2x used HD7970 you can buy literally a crap ton of other coins like LTC and rock on.
> if you have AMD cards, good but if not buying coins are simply better in every aspect ever imaginable.


And why the h* would I want to invest in something some volatile and chaotic? You really had to get lucky to make any money off of this. It's like a stock that you have no idea what is going to happen. And I certainly don't have the money to invest in it to begin with.


----------



## farmdve

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twinnuke*
> 
> And why the h* would I want to invest in something some volatile and chaotic? You really had to get lucky to make any money off of this. It's like a stock that you have no idea what is going to happen. And I certainly don't have the money to invest in it to begin with.


The general misconception is that you can't buy anything less than 1 Bitcoin, you can in fact buy as low as 0.00000001 of a Bitcoin. As of now that is the smallest addressable unit of Bitcoin, commonly(but not officially) dubbed as a satoshi.


----------



## Vagrant Storm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twinnuke*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *barkinos98*
> 
> thats why you buy coins as of 2013 because mining them is simply too hard and too inefficient for what it can do.
> instead of spending $500-550 for 2x used HD7970 you can buy literally a crap ton of other coins like LTC and rock on.
> if you have AMD cards, good but if not buying coins are simply better in every aspect ever imaginable.
> 
> 
> 
> And why the h* would I want to invest in something some volatile and chaotic? You really had to get lucky to make any money off of this. It's like a stock that you have no idea what is going to happen. And I certainly don't have the money to invest in it to begin with.
Click to expand...

It's not really that bad...it is all a game of chicken. You buy until there are more people selling than buying...then you sell until there are more people buying then selling. There is probably a lot of money to be made here. However, you are right about how volatile it is. One the big players could sell off 2500 bitcoins and just cash out never to buy again. It would likely destroy the bitcoin market. I bet we'd see sub $100 prices again if that happened and we see the cycle start over again. In fact that might be the grand plan.


----------



## dogbiscuit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock999*
> 
> Not even close. That's an area dominated by heavyweight backers who spend more on one bitcoin machine than the majority of us make in a year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to mine, go mine some Litecoins. That's what I'm doing soon.
> 
> I'm not making the same mistake I did 2 years ago by not taking advantage of such a big up and comer.


No no no. This is like bitcoin wasn't profitable a to mine a while ago, but suddenly the price goes from 5$ to 20$ to $1000 and what was once dismissed as unprofitable mining suddenly shows it would have been profitable after all.

You can only say it is unprofitable if you know what the price will turn out to be in the future - and I don't think anyone has that particular factoid.

So yeah - it may be profitable to mine even very small amounts - and don't let anyone say otherwise.

+++[edit]+++

Can I run a poll here ?
I would ask -

What is the price of BTC in 5 years time ?

1. $100
2. $1000
3. $10000
4. $100000
5. $1000000

Would be interesting to see what people think.


----------



## Twinnuke

If it goes sub 100$ again I may buy. Or Mine.Who knows.


----------



## felon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twinnuke*
> 
> If it goes sub 100$ again I may buy. Or Mine.Who knows.


Quote:


> And I certainly don't have the money to invest in it to begin with.


Better not be using food stamps


----------



## Twinnuke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *felon*
> 
> Better not be using food stamps


Well it's currently $1,000.00. There's probably no profit at all to be made here. At 100$ you could buy 10 coins for that amount and hope it hits $1,000.00 again. So yes I have no money to invest in it when there is no money to be made.


----------



## Jeffinslaw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twinnuke*
> 
> No I've been watching a virtual currency fluctuate rapidly tripling value and dropping back down in 2 months time. I've been reading how criminals hold in-ordinate amounts of currency where they can manipulate the market to make money when they need to wash their money or cash out and then crash it afterwards. I'm watching people spend 10$ in electricity to mine less than 20 cents worth of a bit coin.


Welcome to real life where the top 1% controls mostly everything we see, hear, or can get our hands on. I'm also sick of hearing how Bitcoins are used by criminals. Real paper money is used by criminals but you don't see people hating on that. Not very many people mine anymore, the only people that mine BTC are those who have substantial mining operations.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Peanuts4*
> 
> I've got monopoly money and pet rocks for sale if you would like to diversify your portfolio.


No thanks. Even though I have more money than I know what to do with from buying and selling Bitcoins (not to mention the fact that I'm 19) and I have more money in my savings account than both of my parents combined, a way to pay my college, and a possible down payment on a house after college, pet rocks and monopoly do not currently fit into my portfolio.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twinnuke*
> 
> If it goes sub 100$ again I may buy. Or Mine.Who knows.


So you went from hating on Bitcoins to accepting them? Oh boy....

/rant Jeffinslaw


----------



## Twinnuke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffinslaw*
> 
> Welcome to real life where the top 1% controls mostly everything we see, hear, or can get our hands on. I'm also sick of hearing how Bitcoins are used by criminals. Real paper money is used by criminals but you don't see people hating on that. Not very many people mine anymore, the only people that mine BTC are those who have substantial mining operations.
> No thanks. Even though I have more money than I know what to do with from buying and selling Bitcoins (not to mention the fact that I'm 19) and I have more money in my savings account than both of my parents combined, a way to pay my college, and a possible down payment on a house after college, pet rocks and monopoly do not currently fit into my portfolio.
> So you went from hating on Bitcoins to accepting them? Oh boy....
> 
> /rant Jeffinslaw


Criminals don't control the majority of money in the US and can't destroy or enlarge it for their own good (unless you count the politicians as the criminals).

I still hate it, but I wouldn't mind using it to make money if I could get it cheap enough. I would be extremely stupid not to.


----------



## akromatic

i swear the sudden rise is due to the sudden amount of ransom ware victims forcing to buy bitcoins to pay for the ransom

other coins would not be as profitable until some "group" demands payment in that form of currency

the moment people find a solution to ransom ware i'd predict bitcoin to plummet unless it becomes an acceptable payment for majority of the things you buy

right now other then currency trading and paying for ransom there is little other use for it. there may be a few dodgy sites which offer steam games for bitcoins and a few that offer VPS/seedbox services

LTcoin just wont have the same demand or inflated impact bitcoin has


----------



## Jeffinslaw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twinnuke*
> 
> Criminals don't control the majority of money in the US and can't destroy or enlarge it for their own good (unless you count the politicians as the criminals).
> 
> I still hate it, but I wouldn't mind using it to make money if I could get it cheap enough. I would be extremely stupid not to.


Politicians are criminals, everyone knows that lol. And there aren't just criminals that are holding large amounts of coins to increase the price, there are everyday people holding onto large amounts of coins as well. You can't just assume everyone who uses BTC are criminals like you have been.

Jeffinslaw


----------



## Vagrant Storm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akromatic*
> 
> i swear the sudden rise is due to the sudden amount of ransom ware victims forcing to buy bitcoins to pay for the ransom
> 
> other coins would not be as profitable until some "group" demands payment in that form of currency
> 
> the moment people find a solution to ransom ware i'd predict bitcoin to plummet unless it becomes an acceptable payment for majority of the things you buy
> 
> right now other then currency trading and paying for ransom there is little other use for it. there may be a few dodgy sites which offer steam games for bitcoins and a few that offer VPS/seedbox services
> 
> LTcoin just wont have the same demand or inflated impact bitcoin has


Ahh yeah there is that too. Though the ransom ware has been around a while...It might have been because there were more people aware of bitcoins too which would likely be due to the ransom ware as well. However, I am sure it was mainly due to market manipulation for a couple big players. Probably have been waiting for the volume and the difficulty to get to the right level to make the manipulation work better.


----------



## farmdve

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akromatic*
> 
> i swear the sudden rise is due to the sudden amount of ransom ware victims forcing to buy bitcoins to pay for the ransom
> 
> other coins would not be as profitable until some "group" demands payment in that form of currency
> 
> the moment people find a solution to ransom ware i'd predict bitcoin to plummet unless it becomes an acceptable payment for majority of the things you buy
> 
> right now other then currency trading and paying for ransom there is little other use for it. there may be a few dodgy sites which offer steam games for bitcoins and a few that offer VPS/seedbox services
> 
> LTcoin just wont have the same demand or inflated impact bitcoin has


The ransom ware has indeed taken a lot of bitcoins, but it's impossible for the price to rise due to that, if anything, it should go down. The reason it shot up was because of China right now.


----------



## akromatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twinnuke*
> 
> Criminals don't control the majority of money in the US and can't destroy or enlarge it for their own good (unless you count the politicians as the criminals).
> 
> I still hate it, but I wouldn't mind using it to make money if I could get it cheap enough. I would be extremely stupid not to.


politicians are crims

i wouldnt consider anyone stupid if if they didnt want to make money off this if they didnt like it. i consider them as people with principle that they stick to regardless without turning to the darkside. i consider them honorable.


----------



## akromatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve*
> 
> The ransom ware has indeed taken a lot of bitcoins, but it's impossible for the price to rise due to that, if anything, it should go down. The reason it shot up was because of China right now.


why would bitcoin go down in value when ransom ware has taken alot of bitcoin. if anything it would have risen.

as demand for coins go up so will its price and ransom ware ONLY accepts payment in bitcoin so you are forced to buy coins regardless of the price in the market. the group behind the ransom ware just needs to sit on the coins and sell at appropriate times while keeping the market inflated and profiting greatly


----------



## farmdve

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akromatic*
> 
> why would bitcoin go down in value when ransom ware has taken alot of bitcoin. if anything it would have risen.
> 
> as demand for coins go up so will its price and ransom ware ONLY accepts payment in bitcoin so you are forced to buy coins regardless of the price in the market. the group behind the ransom ware just needs to sit on the coins and sell at appropriate times while keeping the market inflated and profiting greatly


I see, you do have a point there. However as of now the reason is China. They have been on top of the buying spree.


----------



## Twinnuke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akromatic*
> 
> politicians are crims
> 
> i wouldnt consider anyone stupid if if they didnt want to make money off this if they didnt like it. i consider them as people with principle that they stick to regardless without turning to the darkside. i consider them honorable.


This has nothing to do with honor, please stop the semantics. I personally feel bitcoin is a scam / joke / bubble / disaster waiting to happen. It's also possible to make money on it after these disasters do happen because it will likely re inflate due to how it can be used.
.


----------



## akromatic

china is just being reactive to ransom ware from where i see it. sure they are buying up the market and being seen as a primary source of inflation but its only a reaction towards the ransom.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twinnuke*
> 
> This has nothing to do with honor, please stop the semantics. I personally feel bitcoin is a scam / joke / bubble / disaster waiting to happen. It's also possible to make money on it after these disasters do happen because it will likely re inflate due to how it can be used.
> .


its your call on how you want to make your money in regards to anything else, selling soul for greed

its mine and my principle to not make money in such means and i stick to it regardless on how profitable it becomes


----------



## pcfoo

At any rate, it is not profitable to mine bitcoins with GPUs, as for $200 you can get around 0.6 gigahash/sec (a 7950) that will be consuming around 330~350 W / gigahash potential.
For the same $200 you can buy 6x (or more, depending on source) USB blade erupters with a .333 gigahash ASIC, and get 2 gigahash / sec output, for 15W/gigahash.

And lets just say that this magnitude of energy savings is huge in any compute operation.
Even if it wasn't cutting into your profits (or diminishing them / leaving you in the red), and we were compairing apples to apples as far as output/$ invested goes, the prudent thing would be investing in the most energy efficient method for mining.

Yes, there are other crypto-currencies that have no ASIC mining chips developed for them (harder than bitcoin, or even impossible, depending on the method used to) and could take advantage of such a board (again, not that cheap boards capable of running 5-6 GPUs with powered ribbon adapters weren't available for a couple of years already), but to market a mobo for GPU mining as "bitcoin" oriented is a bit off in Q4 2013...


----------



## Twinnuke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akromatic*
> 
> china is just being reactive to ransom ware from where i see it. sure they are buying up the market and being seen as a primary source of inflation but its only a reaction towards the ransom.
> its your call on how you want to make your money in regards to anything else, selling soul for greed
> 
> its mine and my principle to not make money in such means and i stick to it regardless on how profitable it becomes


Oh Gawwwd, child please. It's not like I just went out and murdered a bunch of kittens to make money. Please you're going to make me vomit with your My Little Pony Esque attitude.


----------



## akromatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcfoo*
> 
> At any rate, it is not profitable to mine bitcoins with GPUs, as for $200 you can get around 0.6 gigahash/sec (a 7950) that will be consuming around 330~350 W / gigahash potential.
> For the same $200 you can buy 6x (or more, depending on source) USB blade erupters with a .333 gigahash ASIC, and get 2 gigahash / sec output, for 15W/gigahash.
> 
> And lets just say that this magnitude of energy savings is huge in any compute operation.
> Even if it wasn't cutting into your profits (or diminishing them / leaving you in the red), and we were compairing apples to apples as far as output/$ invested goes, the prudent thing would be investing in the most energy efficient method for mining.
> 
> Yes, there are other crypto-currencies that have no ASIC mining chips developed for them (harder than bitcoin, or even impossible, depending on the method used to) and could take advantage of such a board (again, not that cheap boards capable of running 5-6 GPUs with powered ribbon adapters weren't available for a couple of years already), but to market a mobo for GPU mining as "bitcoin" oriented is a bit off in Q4 2013...


well that is only if you dont pay for power. you could always rent 1-2 RU space in a data center where you dont pay for power and have decent fast internet connection that is always on or otherwise have your mineing rigs running off electricity that you dont pay for ie solar


----------



## Asy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akromatic*
> 
> china is just being reactive to ransom ware from where i see it. sure they are buying up the market and being seen as a primary source of inflation but its only a reaction towards the ransom.
> its your call on how you want to make your money in regards to anything else, selling soul for greed
> 
> its mine and my principle to not make money in such means and i stick to it regardless on how profitable it becomes


Okay then explain the MILLIONS of LTC transactions and massive volumes of LTC trades in China..there is no "ransom ware" that demands LTC, so you're just flat wrong. Countries are catching on to the benefits of bitcoins and other virtual currencies and are buying in before they go mainstream and are even more valuable than they are today, especially as the dollar is just becoming more and more diluted everyday


----------



## pcfoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akromatic*
> 
> well that is only if you dont pay for power. you could always rent 1-2 RU space in a data center where you dont pay for power and have decent fast internet connection that is always on or otherwise have your mineing rigs running off electricity that you dont pay for ie solar


So, that rent for the data center is free and access to such facilities offering "gross leases" (i.e. no utilities passed on to the tennant regardless of consumption) is readily available?

That's called "moving the goal post" my friend. A sustainable invesment, is a sustainable investment.
We cannot pass the "my mom pays for rent and electricity" arguement in a logical debate. The fact that someone else pays the bill, doesn't change the fact that certain operations cost more than the possible net profit out of them, or that there are better ways to achieve those gains, either faster, or with less risk, and in certain cases - both.

Assuming $540/BTC and 608M difficulty:

1 Gigahash/sec will pay off around $0.45 a day in the average pool.
1 Gigahash/sec through GPUs will set you back around $1.2 a day for electricity alone.

Payoffs are set to get lower, and this is happening pretty fast. You cannot make up for it.

Solar Array: you kidding, right?
You know what kind of solar array can provide the power needed to run a mining operation with GPUs?

Assuming you are running just 3x GPUs, you have a demand of more than 600W every given moment. The thing is running 24/7.
Even if you have the PV array, you would need to estimate at least on doubling the capacity, i.e. installing a 1.2KW system that would run 12Hr a day @ full capacity (not going to happen), so that the extra energy produced over the day (the 7.2KWh that is sent back to the grid), gets consumed during the night where the PVs are useless.
A low-end 1.2KW array is around $3,000.

So now we are @ 3,600 down the hole (just for PVs and GPUs), for something that makes ~ 3x .6GH/s * $0.45 / GHs / day = $.81 a day or $300 a year...

Then add more if what you are building is a dedicated mining computer, so w/e kind of mobo/cpu/ram/PSU etc expense needs to be added to the total invesment.

You need 12 years just to break even (ROI), assuming nothing changes as far as difficulty goes (which actually changes pretty fast and would be shaving off some 7-10% of you profit every few weeks).


----------



## Blameless

I have yet to see one person on OCN who is highly critical of cryptocurrencies themselves, who has a firm grasp of what they are or how they work. Indeed, the more an individual seems to be against them, the less likely they are to know anything. The degree of misinformation and completely idiotic assumptions is utterly astounding.

Anyway, this most recent spike in BTC volume and prices due to:

-China. New exchanges and new demand.

-US Senate hearings. Both the heightened exposure BTC is getting, as well as the fact that these hearings seem to regard cryptocurrencies and virtual currencies largely positively and are unlikely to result in any significant new legislation.

-The dramatic rise in difficulty forcing miners to upgrade their hardware to compete, which makes them reluctant to sell their coins unless they can recoup expenses quickly. This constricts supply.

-Other recent media attention with Silk Road, ransomware, and the hacking of an exchange/theft of coins. None of these things, not even SR, had the volume to significantly affect the market for BTC themselves, but they did give Bitcoin a large publicity boost.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twinnuke*
> 
> Criminals don't control the majority of money in the US and can't destroy or enlarge it for their own good (unless you count the politicians as the criminals).


The criminals you are speaking of don't control the majority of BTC either, and I am not sure why you think they would.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akromatic*
> 
> china is just being reactive to ransom ware from where i see it. sure they are buying up the market and being seen as a primary source of inflation but its only a reaction towards the ransom.


You have utterly no idea what you are talking about, and seem, like many others, to have adopted cryptocurrencies as your own persona scapegoat for imagined ills. It's really quite perplexing, almost like watching an anti-DHMO fanatic.


----------



## UNOE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> I have yet to see one person on OCN who is highly critical of cryptocurrencies themselves, who has a firm grasp of what they are or how they work. Indeed, the more an individual seems to be against them, the less likely they are to know anything. The degree of misinformation and completely idiotic assumptions is utterly astounding.


This is true for any website or person you meet on the street for that matter. They either understand it and love the idea. Or the refuse to learn anything and some how feel they know they are right and virtual currencies are a terrible idea.


----------



## akromatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pcfoo*
> 
> So, that rent for the data center is free and access to such facilities offering "gross leases" (i.e. no utilities passed on to the tennant regardless of consumption) is readily available?
> 
> That's called "moving the goal post" my friend. A sustainable invesment, is a sustainable investment.
> We cannot pass the "my mom pays for rent and electricity" arguement in a logical debate. The fact that someone else pays the bill, doesn't change the fact that certain operations cost more than the possible net profit out of them, or that there are better ways to achieve those gains, either faster, or with less risk, and in certain cases - both.
> 
> Assuming $540/BTC and 608M difficulty:
> 
> 1 Gigahash/sec will pay off around $0.45 a day in the average pool.
> 1 Gigahash/sec through GPUs will set you back around $1.2 a day for electricity alone.
> 
> Payoffs are set to get lower, and this is happening pretty fast. You cannot make up for it.
> 
> Solar Array: you kidding, right?
> You know what kind of solar array can provide the power needed to run a mining operation with GPUs?
> 
> Assuming you are running just 3x GPUs, you have a demand of more than 600W every given moment. The thing is running 24/7.
> Even if you have the PV array, you would need to estimate at least on doubling the capacity, i.e. installing a 1.2KW system that would run 12Hr a day @ full capacity (not going to happen), so that the extra energy produced over the day (the 7.2KWh that is sent back to the grid), gets consumed during the night where the PVs are useless.
> A low-end 1.2KW array is around $3,000.
> 
> So now we are @ 3,600 down the hole (just for PVs and GPUs), for something that makes ~ 3x .6GH/s * $0.45 / GHs / day = $.81 a day or $300 a year...
> 
> Then add more if what you are building is a dedicated mining computer, so w/e kind of mobo/cpu/ram/PSU etc expense needs to be added to the total invesment.
> 
> You need 12 years just to break even (ROI), assuming nothing changes as far as difficulty goes (which actually changes pretty fast and would be shaving off some 7-10% of you profit every few weeks).


who said anything about using GPU? a few <50W ASIC / FPGA can be ran off some relatively small and cheap panels


----------



## pcfoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *akromatic*
> 
> who said anything about using GPU? a few <50W ASIC / FPGA can be ran off some relatively small and cheap panels


Your wording seemed (still is) to contradict the quoted post of mine that read talking about energy inefficiency, ontop of gigahash/$ spent, ending on how out of date gpu mining is for bitcoins. Your miss quoting of someone who is writing about gpu mining, means your question above should be asked to your self.

At any rate, replacing your electricity bill with another bill and forgetting about it, makes no sense in a talk about ROI.


----------



## lvlrdka22

No idea why some people have a fascination with nice and even numbers, knew it would crash/correct at $1000. I'm guessing some sort of almost self-fulling prophecy since previous ones were similar.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> I have yet to see one person on OCN who is highly critical of cryptocurrencies themselves, who has a firm grasp of what they are or how they work. Indeed, the more an individual seems to be against them, the less likely they are to know anything. The degree of misinformation and completely idiotic assumptions is utterly astounding.


This, and that skeptics will (mostly) remain skeptics, while believers will stay believers.

That said, I'm going to keep holding.


----------



## TurboTurtle

Did you guys just hear that?

That was me kicking myself for stopping mining about 3 months ago. If I had continued with even one of my systems on a conservative estimate I'd have generated 4-5 BTC. Which, while a small figure, would have been a nice paycheck.

I has a massive sad.


----------



## bkal117

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TurboTurtle*
> 
> Did you guys just hear that?
> 
> That was me kicking myself for stopping mining about 3 months ago. If I had continued with even one of my systems on a conservative estimate I'd have generated 4-5 BTC. Which, while a small figure, would have been a nice paycheck.
> 
> I has a massive sad.


Welcome to the club of "coulda, shoulda, woulda." We're self-loathing and broke :/

But I have feels.


----------



## frickfrock999

For those who want to jump into the awesomeness of Litecoin, here's a beginner's guide.

http://coin.furuknap.net/how-to-mine-litecoins-for-beginners-guide/

Read up on it. We're on the ground floor of this goodness.


----------



## Jeffinslaw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock999*
> 
> For those who want to jump into the awesomeness of Litecoin, here's a beginner's guide.
> 
> http://coin.furuknap.net/how-to-mine-litecoins-for-beginners-guide/
> 
> Read up on it. We're on the ground floor of this goodness.


Ermmm what about my tutorial? Mine is pretty straightforward







check link in my sig!

Jeffinslaw


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## Ashuiegi

Do you need a good connection ? good upload speed?


----------



## rudyae86

I dont care about criminals...I just want to make mooonaaay lol

Man ever since yesterday, all this BTC stuff has gotten really intense. im going to buy some LTC while this is going on.

Quick question: What is the safest way to purchase LTC?


----------



## Siigari

edited


----------



## MoGTy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashuiegi*
> 
> Do you need a good connection ? good upload speed?


Nope, any connection will do. Any slightly decent connection anyway. I suppose a 56K could pull it off as well but ... meh it's 2013.


----------



## farmdve

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MoGTy*
> 
> Nope, any connection will do. Any slightly decent connection anyway. I suppose a 56K could pull it off as well but ... meh it's 2013.


Well, Bitcoin is very HDD intensive, and with the amounts of transactions per day, a good HDD, no, SSD even with a good download speed might help you sync for the better part of the day, otherwise it might take days to sync from block 0.


----------



## MoGTy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve*
> 
> Well, Bitcoin is very HDD intensive, and with the amounts of transactions per day, a good HDD, no, SSD even with a good download speed might help you sync for the better part of the day, otherwise it might take days to sync from block 0.


Yea, things can improve quite a bit if you have them but they aren't a must.


----------



## farmdve

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MoGTy*
> 
> Yea, things can improve quite a bit if you have them but they aren't a must.


I hadn't run Bitcoin for a month, simply because the HDD in my siggy was full, after I freed up 2 gigs, it took me hours to sync the last 4 weeks. and when there was like 1 week left, that took even longer than imagined. For me, it's slow.


----------



## Ashuiegi

and what space is needed on the hdd ?


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashuiegi*
> 
> and what space is needed on the hdd ?


If you use the full Bitcoin client or another variant that stores the complete block chain, you need around 22GB of disk space, currently, as the block chain contains a record of every transaction ever made. This is why it can take a while to sync.

Mining itself takes very little space, and there are lighter alternatives to full clients if you just need a wallet. I personally prefer to run the main clients though and especially avoid on-line wallets.


----------



## farmdve

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> If you use the full Bitcoin client or another variant that stores the complete block chain, you need around 22GB of disk space, currently, as the block chain contains a record of every transaction ever made. This is why it can take a while to sync.
> 
> Mining itself takes very little space, and there are lighter alternatives to full clients if you just need a wallet. I personally prefer to run the main clients though and especially avoid on-line wallets.


I do have a node client, but for me it takes only 13 gigs of space, not 22. But all in all, it takes a long while to sync.


----------



## Ashuiegi

ok , with my connection speed, it s not worth it then, i will loose money because of the lost time syncing. 0.30$ a day x 365 = 110$ a year , i can make that on forex in a good day easy, ok it s not passive , but i think just the time to set it up and monitor it bring the profit to zero for me since i m pretty much paid 150% that for one day of work ,..... if you are counting the lost of value of component and small things like that i will be surprise if any profits is left at all .


----------



## MoGTy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashuiegi*
> 
> ok , with my connection speed, it s not worth it then, i will loose money because of the lost time syncing. 0.30$ a day x 365 = 110$ a year , i can make that on forex in a good day easy, ok it s not passive , but i think just the time to set it up and monitor it bring the profit to zero for me since i m pretty much paid 150% that for one day of work ,..... if you are counting the lost of value of component and small things like that i will be surprise if any profits is left at all .


Well you did ask if you needed a good connection, not whether it was worth it







Privately farming BTC these days is next to insane without ASIC.


----------



## Shiveron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve*
> 
> I do have a node client, but for me it takes only 13 gigs of space, not 22. But all in all, it takes a long while to sync.


How do you get a node client? I have both Bitcoin and Litecoin installed and fully synced on my ssd and neither folder is even remotely near 1GB let alone 13.


----------



## PsYcHo29388

Seems the prices are going down because of the difficulty not changing.


----------



## Ashuiegi

i was thinking about litecoin not btc , but anyway it's not profitable too, specially if my computer is stuck on doing that , i know a couple of other way to make money with a computer , they do require a bit more attention and are not totally passive but just preventing me from doing it one hour would void all the profit i have been doing for month with ltc , knowing that with my slow connection i will loose even more time to sync , it becomes just insane even to try it. even if the litecoin go up 10 or 20 x time during this years it still only 2 ground of profits, and this is not considering the 1000 + in component at the begening , it not good enough for me either. i would suggest people to go try some forex a little bit , you can make waay more money , it does take time but you can make some real $$$ and fast.


----------



## farmdve

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiveron*
> 
> How do you get a node client? I have both Bitcoin and Litecoin installed and fully synced on my ssd and neither folder is even remotely near 1GB let alone 13.


I use Bitcoin-Qt, while some call it the "official client", the term is discouraged, as anyone can choose to use a different wallet like Multibit, Electrum and so on. It's most often called the "satoshi client" or most recently, the "reference client" as the first version, and some thereafter were developed by Satoshi himself.


----------



## lowfiwhiteguy

I couldn't take it anymore, and just bought three BTC. I've been wanting to HANG myself for not getting on this as soon as I wanted, kept putting it off and putting it off... No more, I say. I should have done this years ago.

inb4pricecollapse


----------



## Lagpirate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lowfiwhiteguy*
> 
> I couldn't take it anymore, and just bought three BTC. I've been wanting to HANG myself for not getting on this as soon as I wanted, kept putting it off and putting it off... No more, I say. I should have done this years ago.
> 
> inb4pricecollapse


Good for you man. Just hang in there for the long haul. It's gonna be profitable in the long run..
I'm getting into LTC for the same reason. It's still in it's infancy but it looks promising.


----------



## Vagrant Storm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lowfiwhiteguy*
> 
> I couldn't take it anymore, and just bought three BTC. I've been wanting to HANG myself for not getting on this as soon as I wanted, kept putting it off and putting it off... No more, I say. I should have done this years ago.
> 
> inb4pricecollapse


even if it price collapses...I would hang in there. If there was a massive sellout that killed the price it would only be a matter of time before it climbed again...it might take a couple years again, but it should come back. I bought 5 coins at $217 and sold them at $579...I have yet to buy again, though, as I am hoping the price will come down some more. I am not sure if I want to be trading in bitcoins at $600+ a pop. Though I could just trade in .5 coin increments too.

I should be looking into the litecoins more.


----------



## Bridden

I'm sure someone has noticed a correlation between litecoin trades/prices in with the bitcoin hysteria? I'm sure there have been TONs of people jumping on litecoins in the last week or so, expecting them to be very profitable in the future.
Anyone who follows litecoin prices want to comment of their observations?


----------



## Lagpirate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bridden*
> 
> I'm sure someone has noticed a correlation between litecoin trades/prices in with the bitcoin hysteria? I'm sure there have been TONs of people jumping on litecoins in the last week or so, expecting them to be very profitable in the future.
> Anyone who follows litecoin prices want to comment of their observations?


LOTS of people are buying LTC up. You can check it on
https://btc-e.com/exchange/ltc_usd. People are buying anywhere from 50-200 LTC at a time. There is definitely an interest.


----------



## Lagpirate

Double post, please delete


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve*
> 
> I do have a node client, but for me it takes only 13 gigs of space, not 22. But all in all, it takes a long while to sync.


Is your folder compressed? When was your original install date?

I may have parts of the old chain from before the fork because I've had Bitcoin-Qt running since late 2010/early 2011.


----------



## Ashuiegi

personally it would need to increase by 40-50x time it s value before it's just worth my time , i made my calculation , by today price nobody makes money on them , if you only count electricity ,you see a small profit but if you have a decent job and spend more then one hour a year taking care of your mining operation you already lost all your profit,.... just fools gold.
of course you can argue that if you keep them long enough you make a profit but in the meantime you money is dormant , you can't invest them , or use them to get more of them , i just find forex better on every aspect.


----------



## Vagrant Storm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashuiegi*
> 
> personally it would need to increase by 40-50x time it s value before it's just worth my time , i made my calculation , by today price nobody makes money on them , if you only count electricity ,you see a small profit but if you have a decent job and spend more then one hour a year taking care of your mining operation you already lost all your profit,.... just fools gold.
> of course you can argue that if you keep them long enough you make a profit but in the meantime you money is dormant , you can't invest them , or use them to get more of them , i just find forex better on every aspect.


Well you can cash out at anytime...provided some one wants to buy your bit coins. I mined for a month a long while ago and paid roughly $50-75 more in electricity and got a whole .1 something bitcoins from my mining pool. Which at the time equaled about $10. Had I kept at it accepting that loss each month I would still just barely be scraping a profit today at that difficulty...and the difficulty is harder now. I've heard mining tools have gotten better, but not that much better.

GPU mining is a thing of the past...if you pay for electricity. Well, I've been finding viruses lately that will silently put idle GPUs to work, heh, but not for the owner of the computer of course. I'd suggest that every one monitors their GPU usage at all times.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vagrant Storm*
> 
> Well you can cash out at anytime...provided some one wants to buy your bit coins. I mined for a month a long while ago and paid roughly $50-75 more in electricity and got a whole .1 something bitcoins from my mining pool. Which at the time equaled about $10. Had I kept at it accepting that loss each month I would still just barely be scraping a profit today at that difficulty...and the difficulty is harder now. *I've heard mining tools have gotten better, but not that much better.*
> 
> GPU mining is a thing of the past...if you pay for electricity. Well, I've been finding viruses lately that will silently put idle GPUs to work, heh, but not for the owner of the computer of course. I'd suggest that every one monitors their GPU usage at all times.


If you have the money you can buy ASICs and mine with them, though they are very pricey. Currently they are FAR better at mining than GPUs though.

If you dumped about $20,000 into ASICs, and mined with that you might be able to turn a profit at current going rate and difficulty. The problem is, as more coins are mined, the difficulty increases, so you are essentially trying to pay off your hardware investment before the difficulty is raised to a point you need more hardware.

It is this crazy stupid beat the clock balance the system get your coin and get out game.......it isn't sustainable in the slightest bit!


----------



## Vagrant Storm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Vagrant Storm*
> 
> Well you can cash out at anytime...provided some one wants to buy your bit coins. I mined for a month a long while ago and paid roughly $50-75 more in electricity and got a whole .1 something bitcoins from my mining pool. Which at the time equaled about $10. Had I kept at it accepting that loss each month I would still just barely be scraping a profit today at that difficulty...and the difficulty is harder now. *I've heard mining tools have gotten better, but not that much better.*
> 
> GPU mining is a thing of the past...if you pay for electricity. Well, I've been finding viruses lately that will silently put idle GPUs to work, heh, but not for the owner of the computer of course. I'd suggest that every one monitors their GPU usage at all times.
> 
> 
> 
> If you have the money you can buy ASICs and mine with them, though they are very pricey. Currently they are FAR better at mining than GPUs though.
> 
> If you dumped about $20,000 into ASICs, and mined with that you might be able to turn a profit at current going rate and difficulty. The problem is, as more coins are mined, the difficulty increases, so you are essentially trying to pay off your hardware investment before the difficulty is raised to a point you need more hardware.
> 
> It is this crazy stupid beat the clock balance the system get your coin and get out game.......it isn't sustainable in the slightest bit!
Click to expand...

I specifically said GPU mining because I don't know up from down about the ASICs. I've been thinking of buying *ONE* just to play with it. I am not expecting it to make me any money though.


----------



## dogbiscuit

"You need 12 years just to break even (ROI), assuming nothing changes as far as difficulty goes (which actually changes pretty fast and would be shaving off some 7-10% of you profit every few weeks)."

You're leaving out a most important factor, which is price rise. It's funny, no one seems to consider this when talking about profitability.

You can mine unprofitably now, and still make money in the future.

I expect a lot of people gave up a few months ago because they thought it wasn't worth the electricity cost. Now, they should realise that may have been worth it after all.

If you don't know the price in the future, then you can't calculate whether your mining will be profitable or not.

It may be better to buy, it may indeed turn out to be a bad investment to mine - but..... it's not a certainty.


----------



## sugarhell

Just buy BTC when they are low and sell when they hit 500-600 again


----------



## Atham

Fun to watch the charts, even though I have no bitcoins. I wouldn't be surprised that a couple of years down the line this sort of trading will be rather popular. It is truly spectacular to see this in action.

BTW, where can you buy and sell these things? Is it via debit cards linked to bank accounts or how do you guys do it?


----------



## Vagrant Storm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dogbiscuit*
> 
> "You need 12 years just to break even (ROI), assuming nothing changes as far as difficulty goes (which actually changes pretty fast and would be shaving off some 7-10% of you profit every few weeks)."
> 
> You're leaving out a most important factor, which is price rise. It's funny, no one seems to consider this when talking about profitability.
> 
> You can mine unprofitably now, and still make money in the future.
> 
> I expect a lot of people gave up a few months ago because they thought it wasn't worth the electricity cost. Now, they should realise that may have been worth it after all.
> 
> If you don't know the price in the future, then you can't calculate whether your mining will be profitable or not.
> 
> It may be better to buy, it may indeed turn out to be a bad investment to mine - but..... it's not a certainty.


And I think you are leaving out loss you pay each month. If you pay $100 a month in electricity you would need the price increase to counter that. If you got 1 coin a year you'd need to sell that coin at $1200 just to break even. From the sounds of the difficulty for the average miner getting 1 coin a year is about the best you can hope for now. At current market you could just buy two coins for that amount.

I don't know how this scales for the people that have massive setups for mining, though.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vagrant Storm*
> 
> I specifically said GPU mining because I don't know up from down about the ASICs. I've been thinking of buying *ONE* just to play with it. I am not expecting it to make me any money though.


Well, for comparison...

A 7970 runs about 650 Kh/s, and Butterfly labs sells an ASIC that runs at 5,000 Kh/s for $275. 5 Gh/s isn't crap anymore, a couple of years ago you would have mined Bitcoins like you were the one making them.....

Further comparison, Butterfly sells a unit that mines at 600 Gh/s!! I have seen people in mining pools that have rigs mining in the Th/s level!

In about a year time we went from 600 Kh/s being doable, to people mining in the Th/s level of things......

What I have seen is people get together and dump a ton into ASIC hardware, mine mine mine mine mine mine, at the top level of mining. While these groups get coin, they also increase the difficult. Essentially it is self destruction, and the goal is to get enough coins to turn a profit before you make your own rig obsolete.

EDIT:

As other have said, a year or so ago I had the ability to take 4 7970s, drop them in my server room at my company, and have them mine 24/7 on dedicated hardware and bandwidth, no electricity expense......

I didn't......I was just "too busy" to "mess" with those "Stupid Bitcoins". At the time the 7970s were about the best mining hardware!


----------



## Vagrant Storm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Vagrant Storm*
> 
> I specifically said GPU mining because I don't know up from down about the ASICs. I've been thinking of buying *ONE* just to play with it. I am not expecting it to make me any money though.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, for comparison...
> 
> A 7970 runs about 650 Kh/s, and Butterfly labs sells an ASIC that runs at 5,000 Kh/s for $275. 5 Gh/s isn't crap anymore, a couple of years ago you would have mined Bitcoins like you were the one making them.....
> 
> Further comparison, Butterfly sells a unit that mines at 600 Gh/s!! I have seen people in mining pools that have rigs mining in the Th/s level!
> 
> In about a year time we went from 600 Kh/s being doable, to people mining in the Th/s level of things......
> 
> What I have seen is people get together and dump a ton into ASIC hardware, mine mine mine mine mine mine, at the top level of mining. While these groups get coin, they also increase the difficult. Essentially it is self destruction, and the goal is to get enough coins to turn a profit before you make your own rig obsolete.
Click to expand...

This is probably where the money really is...making these mining devices.


----------



## Bridden

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lagpirate*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Bridden*
> 
> I'm sure someone has noticed a correlation between litecoin trades/prices in with the bitcoin hysteria? I'm sure there have been TONs of people jumping on litecoins in the last week or so, expecting them to be very profitable in the future.
> Anyone who follows litecoin prices want to comment of their observations?
> 
> 
> 
> LOTS of people are buying LTC up. You can check it on
> https://btc-e.com/exchange/ltc_usd. People are buying anywhere from 50-200 LTC at a time. There is definitely an interest.
Click to expand...

Any good sites you can suggest for LTC?(or would you suggest the site just linked?) I know Mt.Gox does BTC, but not sure about others.

Also, what service should I use to put money into the account? I have paypal, but it seems they don't accept it for depositing, just withdrawing.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vagrant Storm*
> 
> This is probably where the money really is...making these mining devices.


It really is!

Think about it, you have a consumer base that is trying to make their purchase as obsolete as possible, and as quickly as possibly! It is like being a Dr, and as your patients leave you inject them with a bacterial infection, so they have to come back shortly for more.

As long as people are willing to mine, then there is a market for the hardware.


----------



## Atham

So how do you convert bitcoins back into cash?


----------



## legoman786

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atham*
> 
> So how do you convert bitcoins back into cash?


Sell them at one of the many markets. I just sold mine over at Coinbase.


----------



## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atham*
> 
> So how do you convert bitcoins back into cash?


You sell through one of the various "brokers", MT.Gox, btc-e, coinbase, others, or directly to someone you know wants to buy.


----------



## Jeffinslaw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atham*
> 
> So how do you convert bitcoins back into cash?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *legoman786*
> 
> Sell them at one of the many markets. I just sold mine over at Coinbase.


I sell mine at Coinbase too. Very easy and straightforward. You can also buy them from there.

Jeffinslaw


----------



## Creator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vagrant Storm*
> 
> This is probably where the money really is...making these mining devices.


It makes me wonder just how ASIC proof LiteCoin really is. Yes, it requires 4GB of system RAM along with some sort of combination of GPU core power + high speed VRAM to go along with it. But technology will catch up at some point. Just hopefully not for a while.


----------



## Espair

As nice as it would be to have gotten some bitcoins, I cant justify an investment in something like this (even to spend $200 on one coin before), its too unreliable. Who would have known the price would shoot up? not me, its not worth the risk of losing so much money.


----------



## kx11

so can i make real money out of this ?!!


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kx11*
> 
> so can i make real money out of this ?!!


You can, if you play it smart and do your research.

It's not going to be as simple as flipping a mining switch and just having the cash roll in though.


----------



## MoGTy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kx11*
> 
> so can i make real money out of this ?!!


Welcome to the internet, I shall be your guide for today


----------



## kx11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock999*
> 
> You can, if you play it smart and do your research.
> 
> It's not going to be as simple as flipping a mining switch and just having the cash roll in though.


i need to know if a have to memorize a long list of excuses to the cops when i cash in bitcoin money


----------



## JunkoXan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kx11*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *frickfrock999*
> 
> You can, if you play it smart and do your research.
> 
> It's not going to be as simple as flipping a mining switch and just having the cash roll in though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i need to know if a have to memorize a long list of excuses to the cops when i cash in bitcoin money
Click to expand...

I would use "it's my snack money" as an excuse


----------



## Stuuut

Currently looking to get into LTC but i'm wondering what the effect is of not having ASIC's mining in LTC this will mean the difficulty won't go up as fast. Would that mean prices won't go up as fast?


----------



## legoman786

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stuuut*
> 
> Currently looking to get into LTC but i'm wondering what the effect is of not having ASIC's mining in LTC this will mean the difficulty won't go up as fast. Would that mean prices won't go up as fast?


ASIC's mine SHA-256 only, which is what BTC uses. LTC is a scrypt hash (still learning what that means), meaning ASIC's *will not* mine LTC.


----------



## SkyNetSTI

one of the buddies I know made more than 500k on this stuff! He is not showing up at work anymore!)))
He was telling my... get some bitcoins...(((((( ))))))


----------



## Stuuut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *legoman786*
> 
> ASIC's mine SHA-256 only, which is what BTC uses. LTC is a scrypt hash (still learning what that means), meaning ASIC's *will not* mine LTC.


Yes thats pretty much what i said... but does that mean the price won't go up as fast as BTC since difficulty won't go up as fast.

Also there aren't currently any exchanges where you can do USD-LTC why is that? Wouldn't that be needed for it to really take off?


----------



## pcfoo

Litecoin doesn't have the traction bitcoin has in the market: vendors don't endorse it, less hype around it etc.

Right now litecoin does get traction within GPU miners, simply because all those mining rigs are pretty much worthless mining bitcoins, as ASICs driven difficulty so high you barely break even with your electricity bill (if that, and that is only if you live in the US or a place with darn cheap electricity), but it is hard to relate LTC values to $ o any other currency. In current values, it is 5x or more times "better" to mine LTC with your GPU instead of BTC, but those values are theoretical for LTC, while "real" for BTC.

Price is driven by supply/demand. LTC lacks the demand, despite the interest people have to supply, and the "skrypt" being harder for ASIC to optimize for.
Took 3-4 years for BTC ASICs to be developed, if LTC gets more traction vs. real currencies, people might get interested.

iirc "skcrypt" hasing requires more mem than the SHA-256, and won't run in the SHA-256 ASIC chips that have a pretty limited memory pool much faster than GPUs can handle to make those irrelevant. Still, if the money @ stake are enough, maybe they will figure out a way to do it...dunno, blade erupters with ddr3 dimm slots?








w/e...maybe the BTC asic devs are already working on it, so that they are ready to jump ahead of the game when time comes, after they've milked BTC as far as they could, much like oil companies are also pioneers (behind the scenes) in alternative energy research etc.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vagrant Storm*
> 
> I specifically said GPU mining because I don't know up from down about the ASICs. I've been thinking of buying *ONE* just to play with it. I am not expecting it to make me any money though.


As I mentioned earlier, mining Bitcoin with a GPU at current difficulty is a waste even if your electricity is free. You'd be better off selling the GPUs and buying Bitcoins to sit on. I cannot fathom why anyone would even attempt to GPU mine Bitcoin at this point, unless profit was never a goal (and then what would be?).

GPU mining Bitcoins is less than 1/10th as profitable as GPU mining established altcoins and selling them for Bitcoins.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> If you have the money you can buy ASICs and mine with them, though they are very pricey. Currently they are FAR better at mining than GPUs though.
> 
> If you dumped about $20,000 into ASICs, and mined with that you might be able to turn a profit at current going rate and difficulty. The problem is, as more coins are mined, the difficulty increases, so you are essentially trying to pay off your hardware investment before the difficulty is raised to a point you need more hardware.
> 
> It is this crazy stupid beat the clock balance the system get your coin and get out game.......it isn't sustainable in the slightest bit!


The rising difficulty is perfectly sustainable. If it wasn't difficulty would decrease until it was. The only reason difficulty is rising is because network hashrate is rising, if it wasn't profitable for people to put money into ASICs to mine, they wouldn't and both hashrate and difficulty would stagnate or go down.

The first generation of ASICs aren't very profitable anymore, but the newest generations are and will be for a whille. We are starting to hit a limit on hash rate per watt that is possible with current lithography sizes. The upcoming ASICs are all 28nm stuff, and from here there will be a much more gradual improvement in GHash/watt.

You still a large enough initial investment to compete profitably, but the fact that it is happening proves that it can.


----------



## Ashuiegi

some people have dirty money to invest into asic to mine and convert back into clean cash, they really don't mind loosing a bit along the way , they are pretty much the only one with any interest to do it.
it s the same with kebab shops in europe ,.....
you surely have a few individual that are a some crypto currency fanatics and don't mind mining at a lost but it s not profitable on a short term.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creator*
> 
> It makes me wonder just how ASIC proof LiteCoin really is. Yes, it requires 4GB of system RAM along with some sort of combination of GPU core power + high speed VRAM to go along with it. But technology will catch up at some point. Just hopefully not for a while.


Hugely ASIC resistant. Not in the sense that ASICs could not be made to mine them, but in the fact that putting enough memory and memory bandwidth per ALU on an ASIC to mine them more efficiently than a GPU would be difficult.

Scrypt requires orders of magnitude more memory operations, and GPUs are already a pile of fast ALUs combined with huge pools of extremely fast memory, making them almost ideal scrypt hashers. I'm sure if an ASIC was made that was nothing but ALUs and memory controller, and was attached to a similarly large pool of GDDR5, with larger bandwidth, it could out do a GPU, but it would be a higher initial investment, and almost certainly could not out do a GPU by even one order of magnitude in hashes per watt.

Current and upcoming ASICs can/will be able to hash SHA-256 (what Bitcoin uses) about 100 to 10000 times as fast per watt as a GPU.

I highly doubt an ASIC can be made that can hash scrypt with better than 2-5 times the efficiency of a GPU.

Basically, a GPU is far from the ideal SHA-256 hasher, but is very close to the ideal scrypt hasher.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stuuut*
> 
> Currently looking to get into LTC but i'm wondering what the effect is of not having ASIC's mining in LTC this will mean the difficulty won't go up as fast. Would that mean prices won't go up as fast?


Price is driven by both demand and supply.

Litecoin is seeing quite a bit of interest, because of it's #2 spot, it's convertability to Bitcoin, and because it has real, tangible advantages over Bitcoin.

Litecoin is more resistant to centralization that Bitcoin. You need ASIC hashers which can do essentially nothing but mine Bitcoin to be profitiable mining Bitcoin, which limits miners, and thus the Bitcoin supply, to large entities or individuals with very deep pockets. Litecoin on the other hand is efficiently mined by a multi-purpose consumer product (a mid to high end AMD GPU) that while somewhat niche, is far more widespread, and far more difficult for businesses or individuals to consolidate. Even the largest and most expensive GPU clusters ever created do not contain a significant fraction of all the GPUs sold, and virtually no entity could make a run on controlling Litecoin due to this simple fact.

Litecoin also has superior potential as a cash supplement or replacement than Bitcoin because it confirms several times faster. If I try to pay you with Bitcoins, it can take upwards of an hour or two to fully confirm. With Litecoin you see the first confirmations within minutes, and typically have a fully confirmed transaction in 10-15. Bitcoin is currently relegated more to large transactions, savings, and speculation, than to being used for face-to-face, or impulse, purchases.

Anyway, as Litecoin's popularity increases, so does value, and difficulty of mining. I started mining Litecoin when the difficulty was under 100, it's ~1400 as of this post, and is going to rise further. However, prices have generally risen as well; not as fast, but that can change.

As always, dabbling in such things is a gamble. Cryptos are definitely here to stay, but they are still in their infancy, and it's going to be a wild ride before they are stable, usable, money for the majority of people.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashuiegi*
> 
> some people have dirty money to invest into asic to mine and convert back into clean cash, they really don't mind loosing a bit along the way , they are pretty much the only one with any interest to do it.


This is a fallacious statement.

If you can buy an ASIC with "dirty" money, you can buy something else.

Most ASICs are not purchased by criminals, or with dirty money. They are a medium-risk, high-profit endeavors, that attracts all sorts of investors who have tens of thousands to millions of dollars of play money, usually obtained by very legal means.


----------



## dogbiscuit

Quote:


> And I think you are leaving out loss you pay each month. If you pay $100 a month in electricity you would need the price increase to counter that. If you got 1 coin a year you'd need to sell that coin at $1200 just to break even. From the sounds of the difficulty for the average miner getting 1 coin a year is about the best you can hope for now. At current market you could just buy two coins for that amount.
> 
> I don't know how this scales for the people that have massive setups for mining, though.


Well, people were going on about the unprofitability of it earlier this year. Suddenly the price goes up and what was once unprofitable is now proifitable again.

You nearly had $1200 BTC last week. But what is the upper limit ?That's what you're leaving out.

I'm going to repost a little bit here -

I took a hashrate of 1400 MH/s for 2x7970 and stuck it in alloscomp calculator, with a notional rate of BTC = $1,000,000

Bitcoins per day at current difficulty = 0.00115519

So, at current difficulty, your mining would turn out to have been worth $1,155 a day.

Maybe a more 'realistic' (?- nobody knows) target of BTC = $10000 ?

That's still $11/day which is a lot better than the electric bill you would be paying.

Yes there are probably better ways, yes the difficulty will go up (as will scarcity as more and more are deleted and stolen), but profitability isn't so easily determined.

What is the price of BTC in 5 years time ?

1. $100
2. $1000
3. $10000
4. $100000
5. $1000000

Would be interesting to see what people think.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dogbiscuit*
> 
> What is the price of BTC in 5 years time ?
> 
> 1. $100
> 2. $1000
> 3. $10000
> 4. $100000
> 5. $1000000
> 
> Would be interesting to see what people think.


Somewhere between zero (it's been replaced by another crypto) and 50k USD (it's rapidly gained wide acceptance).

1 million dollar BTC is not possible in five years (and probably not for much longer), as this would imply a ~15 trillion dollar cap, making it a significant fraction of the world's economy and possibly the largest of world currencies in circulation. Maybe eventually this could occur, but not possible in the next five years by any stretch of the imagination.

Even 100k dollars is exceedingly far fetched, but not completely beyond the realm of possibility.

Out of the options above, I'd say #3, 10k USD is a reasonable high to see at some point in the next 5 years.


----------



## dogbiscuit

Quote:


> Somewhere between zero (it's been replaced by another crypto) and 50k USD (it's rapidly gained wide acceptance).


I wonder how that will work out. The alternatives (LTC etc) already have to be diluting the BTC price to some extent, maybe it will become completely obsolete.

Rik Falkvinge is still sticking to his $100,000-1,000,000 estimate - though I don't know if his crystal ball is better than anyone else's.

(sorry about the multiple edits - bad habit)


----------



## CULLEN

I remember back when Bitcoins was fairly new or around $2, there was a guy on my local computer forum asking to buy Bitcoins, admins though it was a pirate scheme and banned him. This same guy bought Bitcoins for more than a grand, what a prick.


----------



## Stuuut

Sorry to go offtopic but whats the best LTC pool to mine in?


----------



## DzillaXx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stuuut*
> 
> Sorry to go offtopic but whats the best LTC pool to mine in?


I use litecoinpool but there are many others.


----------



## Darklyric

Give-me-coins.com is my fav


----------



## Stuuut

K have it running now doing 370 MHash/s with my HD6950 is that alright? Should be getting a r-290x when there are AIB's


----------



## farmdve

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stuuut*
> 
> K have it running now doing 370 MHash/s with my HD6950 is that alright? Should be getting a r-290x when there are AIB's


It's not. Litecoin is an scrypt based coin, your speed should be in KH/s not MH/s or at most 1MH/s. Notice the K, it stands for kilohashes. That is because, scrypt is many orders of magnitudes slower than SHA256. I think you are mining Litecoin using Bitcoin's SHA256 algorithm instead of Scrypt.


----------



## farmdve

Oops...double post. Mods, please delete this one.


----------



## Boatski

I sold 25 BTC right after the first bubble at $12/ea. I'm depressed now.


----------



## Tomalak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boatski*
> 
> I sold 25 BTC right after the first bubble at $12/ea. I'm depressed now.


Don't be. Sometimes you win, other times you lose. There's plenty of both in life.









EDIT: esp. not worth damaging your health by obsessing over it.

EDIT2: and this comes from someone living in a country where average net salary is around 400EUR/month.


----------



## Ashuiegi

0 or illegal or broken ,.....


----------



## Stuuut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve*
> 
> It's not. Litecoin is an scrypt based coin, your speed should be in KH/s not MH/s or at most 1MH/s. Notice the K, it stands for kilohashes. That is because, scrypt is many orders of magnitudes slower than SHA256. I think you are mining Litecoin using Bitcoin's SHA256 algorithm instead of Scrypt.


Yeah didn't seem to register anything...
Downloaded a new miner now its saying its at 19kh/s which isn't correct either it seems looked up what my hardware should be getting and its something like 400 orso.


----------



## Boatski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tomalak*
> 
> Don't be. Sometimes you win, other times you lose. There's plenty of both in life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: esp. not worth damaging your health by obsessing over it.
> 
> EDIT2: and this comes from someone living in a country where average net salary is around 400EUR/month.


Lol, I'm not actually depressed. Just one of those "BAH" moments.


----------



## farmdve

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stuuut*
> 
> Yeah didn't seem to register anything...
> Downloaded a new miner now its saying its at 19kh/s which isn't correct either it seems looked up what my hardware should be getting and its something like 400 orso.


That is because there are many settings in a miner to tune the speed.


----------



## Ashuiegi

pay the hardware and electricity bill with dirty cash and get back money on a legit bank account , that is called money laundering , yes of course you can go buy thing with your dirty cash but you can't go try to put it on a bank account without suspicion. It take a while to spend million in dinner and groceries , you need to put this cash in the system to be able to invest it back into more profitable things. minning is just even better then using a shop or company to launder your money , it s easier to set up and it's harder to get caught. Now i don't have any money to launder and yet i can see the beauty of this system, do you really think that people with a lot of dirty cash didn't realize that too ? it s a bit naive.

on the privacy side , if every single transaction is registered in the client , how is this better then withdraw cash and pay with that , nobody will ever know when and where you decided to use this withdrawn cash and there is very little proof left behind.
the fact that every transaction information is in every computer that has the bitcoin client make it also incrediebly vunerable , no matter how good the encoding is.


----------



## Khepira

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dogbiscuit*
> 
> Well, people were going on about the unprofitability of it earlier this year. Suddenly the price goes up and what was once unprofitable is now proifitable again.
> 
> You nearly had $1200 BTC last week. But what is the upper limit ?That's what you're leaving out.
> 
> I'm going to repost a little bit here -
> 
> I took a hashrate of 1400 MH/s for 2x7970 and stuck it in alloscomp calculator, with a notional rate of BTC = $1,000,000
> 
> Bitcoins per day at current difficulty = 0.00115519
> 
> So, at current difficulty, your mining would turn out to have been worth $1,155 a day.
> 
> Maybe a more 'realistic' (?- nobody knows) target of BTC = $10000 ?
> 
> That's still $11/day which is a lot better than the electric bill you would be paying.
> 
> Yes there are probably better ways, yes the difficulty will go up (as will scarcity as more and more are deleted and stolen), but profitability isn't so easily determined.
> 
> What is the price of BTC in 5 years time ?
> 
> 1. $100
> 2. $1000
> 3. $10000
> 4. $100000
> 5. $1000000
> 
> Would be interesting to see what people think.


Much better to cloud mine IMO, make 50-60% capital back within 3-4 difficulty increases, then sell the GH/s back for 75% of what you paid for them.


----------



## dogbiscuit

Quote:


> Much better to cloud mine IMO, make 50-60% capital back within 3-4 difficulty increases, then sell the GH/s back for 75% of what you paid for them.


I don't know, there are all sorts of options - I was just labouring the point that it's hard to say whether mining is unprofitable without knowing the future price.


----------



## Khepira

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dogbiscuit*
> 
> I don't know, there are all sorts of options - I was just labouring the point that it's hard to say whether mining is unprofitable without knowing the future price.


I find I generally make the bulk of my revenue there from trades. With no fee, it makes it pretty easy to pull a profit just on small margins.


----------



## dogbiscuit

Quote:


> I find I generally make the bulk of my revenue there from trades. With no fee, it makes it pretty easy to pull a profit just on small margins.


That's what they say right here -- although the lack of fees is figured as a benefit in transferring money, cutting bank fees.


----------



## Khepira

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dogbiscuit*
> 
> That's what they say right here -- although the lack of fees is figured as a benefit in transferring money, cutting bank fees.


Good talk but i just couldn't get past that jumpy host


----------



## rudyae86

Man, all this talk makes me want to invest in some LTC...the thing is, I dont want to use my bank account. How will I be able to purchase some without using my bank account?

I have been reading about BTC for the past few months and its been some interesting these few days.

Seeing how LTC is also going up, I might as well buy some while they are cheap


----------



## Vagrant Storm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rudyae86*
> 
> Man, all this talk makes me want to invest in some LTC...the thing is, I dont want to use my bank account. How will I be able to purchase some without using my bank account?
> 
> I have been reading about BTC for the past few months and its been some interesting these few days.
> 
> Seeing how LTC is also going up, I might as well buy some while they are cheap


Easy...create another bank account. I have a online account with Ally Bank _JUST_ for Bitcoin trading.


----------



## Stuntfly02

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rudyae86*
> 
> Man, all this talk makes me want to invest in some LTC...the thing is, I dont want to use my bank account. How will I be able to purchase some without using my bank account?
> 
> I have been reading about BTC for the past few months and its been some interesting these few days.
> 
> Seeing how LTC is also going up, I might as well buy some while they are cheap


Use paypal and transfer funds from your normal checking/debit account and then use paypal to buy the coins from whatever exchange you want to use. Most accept paypal as a funding source or as a place to send your mined money to.


----------



## Bridden

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stuntfly02*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *rudyae86*
> 
> Man, all this talk makes me want to invest in some LTC...the thing is, I dont want to use my bank account. How will I be able to purchase some without using my bank account?
> 
> I have been reading about BTC for the past few months and its been some interesting these few days.
> 
> Seeing how LTC is also going up, I might as well buy some while they are cheap
> 
> 
> 
> Use paypal and transfer funds from your normal checking/debit account and then use paypal to buy the coins from whatever exchange you want to use. Most accept paypal as a funding source or as a place to send your mined money to.
Click to expand...

What ltc sites do you know of that accept paypal as a form of payment? And among them, what sites are most recommended?


----------



## rudyae86

I thought you couldnt use paypal to buy bitcoins or any other coin? well at least thats what i read at some place...maybe it changed?


----------



## Bridden

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rudyae86*
> 
> I thought you couldnt use paypal to buy bitcoins or any other coin? well at least thats what i read at some place...maybe it changed?


Yeah, I've seen withdrawal with paypal, but I havn't seen any sites that allow deposits with paypal. If anyone could enlighten us, I would be very appreciative ^^.


----------



## farmdve

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bridden*
> 
> Yeah, I've seen withdrawal with paypal, but I havn't seen any sites that allow deposits with paypal. If anyone could enlighten us, I would be very appreciative ^^.


I doubt you will find any, the reason Bitcoiners hate PayPal so much is because transactions are reversible i.e chargebacks and you can easily reverse a deposit and scam somebody/an exchange. This is why you will very very rarely find anyone willing to sell you Bitcoins for PayPal.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve*
> 
> I doubt you will find any, the reason Bitcoiners hate PayPal so much is because transactions are reversible i.e chargebacks and you can easily reverse a deposit and scam somebody/an exchange. This is why you will very very rarely find anyone willing to sell you Bitcoins for PayPal.


Very true.

I'd abandon PayPal entirely in a second if it weren't somehow the most popular means of sending money in some of the circles I frequent. It really is a terrible service.


----------



## Stuntfly02

https://btc-e.com/

They have a decent exchange and there are a few payment sites you can use to get money onto the exchange. Can only pay money back out to paypal with them. But I am sure you could get a bunch of visa/mastercard/discover gift cards and use them to add funds to almost any of those sites or use one of those re-loadable cards. Then you at least aren't using your bank account.


----------



## dogbiscuit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve*
> 
> I doubt you will find any, the reason Bitcoiners hate PayPal so much is because transactions are reversible i.e chargebacks and you can easily reverse a deposit and scam somebody/an exchange. This is why you will very very rarely find anyone willing to sell you Bitcoins for PayPal.


Indeed. You can buy BTC on ebay, but there is usually the condition that the seller won't be using paypal.


----------



## TheMadProfessor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *farmdve*
> 
> I doubt you will find any, the reason Bitcoiners hate PayPal so much is because transactions are reversible i.e chargebacks and you can easily reverse a deposit and scam somebody/an exchange. This is why you will very very rarely find anyone willing to sell you Bitcoins for PayPal.
> 
> 
> 
> Very true.
> 
> I'd abandon PayPal entirely in a second if it weren't somehow the most popular means of sending money in some of the circles I frequent. It really is a terrible service.
Click to expand...

Paypal is popular because they created a unique product that worked quite well for some time.

They they got greedy, and it all went to Hades...


----------



## Creator

And back up BTC has gone. I was right when I predicted $450-$500 drop but I wasn't expecting it to go right back to $700-$800 afterward. Also, every coin on BTC-e looks like it has been "pumped" up (in relation to BTC). It's becoming very obvious just how much control and manipulation these players at the top have. It's free money if you can ride it up, but it's scary knowing that hedge funds in the stock market don't even have a fraction of the influence that's happening in the crypto market.

But for now, mining profits are good.


----------



## SwitchFX

I feel sorry for that bloke from Norway who sold his coins back when the price was around $300, IIRC. Could have sold at $1,000.


----------



## Higgins

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve*
> 
> I doubt you will find any, the reason Bitcoiners hate PayPal so much is because transactions are reversible i.e chargebacks and you can easily reverse a deposit and scam somebody/an exchange. This is why you will very very rarely find anyone willing to sell you Bitcoins for PayPal.


Also, I'm fair certain that Paypal has been banning accounts that are involved in any crypto sales, so filing a claim with them about bitcoins or litecoins would likely end in your account being banned.

I'm very glad that I built a few litecoin mining rigs last spring to mine all summer. I sold the hardware, and now my friends and family are wishing that they hadn't been so skeptical.


----------



## dogbiscuit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Khepira*
> 
> Good talk but i just couldn't get past that jumpy host


He was on the BBC's biggest current affairs program last night - wouldn't be surprised if this caused a lot of interest over the weekend. That and Branson taking Bitcoin means those who blathered about Silk Road being the doom of bitcoin are going to watch it get bigger instead.


----------



## dVeLoPe

I want to know aswell where to buy lite coins flat out.


----------



## Asy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dVeLoPe*
> 
> I want to know aswell where to buy lite coins flat out.


first you need to buy bitcoin then transfer those to btc-e or mcxnow and then trade your btc for LTC, no other ways at the moment


----------



## farmdve

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asy*
> 
> first you need to buy bitcoin then transfer those to btc-e or mcxnow and then trade your btc for LTC, no other ways at the moment


Well, btc-e does allow the purchasing of LTC via USD, if you can transfer USD there. Otherwise yes, BTC->LTC


----------



## Norlig

Darn,

Should have bought a few when it took a dive last week >.<.


----------



## bad_haze

1 bitcoin 1000$ does not allow for a usable currency. Will candy bars cost .0001 of a bitcoin? I dunno... Seems like a useless currency with no inflation control... Governmental currencies have inflation controls that work in junction with economic growth. Bitcoins are independent and although not directly controlled by governments, it can be manipulated to remain out of the middle class price range - as we are seeing happen now - so that it cannot be used as a currency of exchange for regular goods. One currency, another currency, they are all manipulated... Except gold. I like gold. There is no way a bitcoin will replace the reliability and time-tested value of gold.


----------



## Blk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bad_haze*
> 
> 1 bitcoin 1000$ does not allow for a usable currency. *Will candy bars cost .0001 of a bitcoin?* I dunno... Seems like a useless currency with no inflation control... Governmental currencies have inflation controls that work in junction with economic growth. Bitcoins are independent and although not directly controlled by governments, it can be manipulated to remain out of the middle class price range - as we are seeing happen now - so that it cannot be used as a currency of exchange for regular goods. One currency, another currency, they are all manipulated... Except gold. I like gold. There is no way a bitcoin will replace the reliability and time-tested value of gold.


Why not? That's what subunits of bitcoins are for.

.001 mBTC (millicoin)
.000001 μBTC (microcoin)
.00000001 satoshi

But yes, it's far too unstable to use it as a conventional currency right now.


----------



## Ashuiegi

it's only a speculation, tax evasion and money lundering currency , they will never be used as real every day currency , it s not practical , not secure enough and it s an energy saving nightmare , it s the most inefficient idea for a money i've ever seen , all this power is just wasted doing computing that is not needed in the first place .
just the other day i saw the market being manipulated like hell , 1000 of small overestimated transaction the price slowly went up , then the transaction stoped , price started to fall down , at this point someone sold 500000$ in bitcoins the price droped further and he brought it 2 min later before the price started rising again because everybody though it was the right time to buy. he will later sell them back when the price is back up , he just made 3 time some interest on the same money in 15 min on the back of the small idealist bitcoins owner ,....
if you do that in the real stock market , it s illegal and you can have trouble for it (at least on paper), in bitcoins there is nobody regulating it or backing it.
You can also destroy some of them and since they are limited number and will not be replaced, you can manipulate the value enormously, all this make it just fool gold , lot of little player losing their money to the big fishes. And in the end it s virtual because their is no worth in this money , nobody really worked for it , it doesn't come from increase revenue or growth , it s totally artificial and therefor it will never have anything to do with real economy and will never be usefull for honest citizen


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bad_haze*
> 
> Will candy bars cost .0001 of a bitcoin?


The smallest unit of Bitcoin is .00000001 of a bitcoin, so small purchases won't be restricted by the value of a single bitcoin until the price is far higher than 1000 dollars per BTC.

There are other issues that make BTC difficult to use for impulse transactions, but the value of a Bitcoin is not, and likely never will be, one of them.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashuiegi*
> 
> it s not practical , not secure enough and it s an energy saving nightmare , it s the most inefficient idea for a money i've ever seen , all this power is just wasted doing computing that is not needed in the first place


This is nonsense. Security of the Bitcoin network itself is far higher than almost any other conceivable monetary system. You cannot counterfeit BTC, you cannot double spend them, and you cannot arbitrarily create new BTC.

As for efficiency, there is comparable waste in other financial systems, many of which would be rendered redundant by a mainstream P2P currency.

Personally, I heat my home mining. All of the energy that goes into a computer comes out as heat, so my scrypt hashers are just as efficient at heating as the best of electric space heaters.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashuiegi*
> 
> just the other day i saw the market being manipulated like hell , 1000 of small overestimated transaction the price slowly went up , then the transaction stoped , price started to fall down , at this point someone sold 500000$ in bitcoins the price droped further and he brought it 2 min later before the price started rising again because everybody though it was the right time to buy. he will later sell them back when the price is back up , he just made 3 time some interest on the same money in 15 min on the back of the small idealist bitcoins owner ,....


You are blaming how easily it is to part a fool from his money on Bitcoin?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashuiegi*
> 
> if you do that in the real stock market , it s illegal and you can have trouble for it (at least on paper), in bitcoins there is nobody regulating it or backing it.


Which is one of it's primary strengths as far as most people are concerned. Neither I, nor many other "useful, honest citizens" need big brother to tell them where they can or cannot spend their money, even if we occasionally make poor purchases.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashuiegi*
> 
> You can also destroy some of them and since they are limited number and will not be replaced


No one intentionally destroys BTC since no one can tell the difference between lost and horded BTC.

Destroying BTC makes everyone elses BTC more valuable while depriving you of whatever you destroyed, whatever you paid to obtain it, and any option to sell it in the future. If you think people do this, you are insane. Certainly, some is lost, but that's a different matter.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashuiegi*
> 
> you can manipulate the value enormously


Those that hold a significant stake in any market can manipulate it's value. Governments can also unilaterally and arbitrarily manipulate the value of fiat currencies to similar extents, with far wider implications.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashuiegi*
> 
> lot of little player losing their money to the big fishes.


True, but that's their own fault, not Bitcoin's, and again, it's far from limited to cryptos.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashuiegi*
> 
> And in the end it s virtual because their is no worth in this money , nobody really worked for it , it doesn't come from increase revenue or growth , it s totally artificial and therefor it will never have anything to do with real economy and will never be usefull for honest citizen


Ah, we finally come to the heart of your illogical, inexplicable, and unreasoning hatred for a medium of exchange that you do not even need to participate in. Your argument is a moral one, which you attempt to shroud in some sort of false rationale. It comes down to work ethic. You have a personal problem with people being able to profit without doing what you happen to consider legitimate labor, and for whatever reason, cryptocurrencies have become your scapegoat.

You are perfectly entitled to your opinion, never mind the fact you have utterly no logical backing for any of it, but claiming you have some fundamental problem with Bitcoin, while ignoring the same issues in pretty much every other form of exchange outside of pure barter, is quite hypocritical for someone railing against the supposed 'dishonesty' of the system.


----------



## Ashuiegi

sorry but the value of a country money is based on economic growth and many other real factor that are too complexe to be manipulated , the value of bitcoin is only sustained by big volume of speculation which is only controlled by the biggest share(bitcoins) holder. maybe it give you the impression of freedom but you re even more controlled by people that no one elected and have 0 accountability . It s like a fish going from an aquarium to a net being sure he s heading for the ocean ,.....
that is not secure at all , every transaction that you ever made is recorded , even if encoded it still recorded , when i spend my cash there is 0 trace of what i did with it , i can buy 200 dollar of candies, give them to a hobo or just keep them undefinitely, go in a brothel , there is no ways to know how i spend it.

it s not possible to prove that it s impossible to counterfeit or lure the system , there is also no way to know how many bitcoins were keep aside at the begening.

another point is do you declare what you have in bitcoins , is it taxable , should you pay taxe on them ? any governement could just declare them illegal in one night just for that reason because it s impossible to manage tax evasion in bitcoins, it s a threat to the national currency and taxe system. there is just no arguments or thing you could do against that from one day to another your money could be completely gone , no value internationally , no value inside your country , your legal national currency will never be worth nothing until the whole country is worthless,..... i call that very unsecure money


----------



## JMattes

Ive been looking into how to actually and safely get USD onto the market to buy these coins and for a week now I have not found one safe and reliable way.. Can someone PM me how to do it.
I have read you need to go to BTC-e and sign up and then get USD on to the market but the half the company's that can help get you USD onto the market are scammers..

I was thinking of using Coinbase, but recently people are reporting a lot of problems with them where your money is tied up for weeks and some people even needed to close their bank accounts due to peoples.

Can someone help? I wanted to invest back when LTC were $7 but couldnt figure it out..


----------



## legoman786

How does no one know about Coinbase?

I have *successfully* sold my BTC for USD there.

Coinbase for BTC to USD


----------



## Vagrant Storm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMattes*
> 
> Ive been looking into how to actually and safely get USD onto the market to buy these coins and for a week now I have not found one safe and reliable way.. Can someone PM me how to do it.
> I have read you need to go to BTC-e and sign up and then get USD on to the market but the half the company's that can help get you USD onto the market are scammers..
> 
> I was thinking of using Coinbase, but recently people are reporting a lot of problems with them where your money is tied up for weeks and some people even needed to close their bank accounts due to peoples.
> 
> Can someone help? I wanted to invest back when LTC were $7 but couldnt figure it out..


I personally made an online savings account at Ally Bank....I wired money into it and then wired money out of it to Coinbase. It worked fine for me, but then I've only done two transactions each for 5 coins. I think it took a couple hours to happen. Though i sold at $579 when the price was increasing last time...probably was a huge demand to buy coins at the time.


----------



## steelsoldat

I sold like 5 coins when they were worth $20.............
wow, well I'm really kicking myself xD


----------



## JMattes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vagrant Storm*
> 
> I personally made an online savings account at Ally Bank....I wired money into it and then wired money out of it to Coinbase. It worked fine for me, but then I've only done two transactions each for 5 coins. I think it took a couple hours to happen. Though i sold at $579 when the price was increasing last time...probably was a huge demand to buy coins at the time.


Thank you so much for your help I will look into it!

How easy is it to without money if you want to "cash" out?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelsoldat*
> 
> I sold like 5 coins when they were worth $20.............
> wow, well I'm really kicking myself xD


I think there is a lot of kicking going around...


----------



## Scorpii

Hmm, back up over $1000 on mtgox...

I was looking at this last week after it went to 900, then back down to $480 ish. I did think about buying one/some, but felt it was 50/50 whether it would go up or down, and they're not great odds! Seems just like a very high risk, high reward, very volatile stock market, and is basically gambling as you can make much less of an informed decision than with stocks.

If it drops back down to $500 in a day or two, I still probably wouldn't invest, as as I see it there are too many unknown variables deciding the price... could well go down below $500 and stay there, or could shoot up.


----------



## Shpongle

I still can't figure out my wallet password









I've only got about 0.168 btc but I wouldn't mind selling it now for $150.


----------



## JMattes

Yea.. its a huge gamble..

I still don't know how easy it is to get money in and out of there honestly.. Onces like one huge scam, but people are making money on it.. Still can't go over it..

If I invest $2000 when at $2 a LTC I would have enough money for the down payment on a cheap condo.. so upsetting..


----------



## legoman786

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shpongle*
> 
> I still can't figure out my wallet password
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've only got about 0.168 btc but I wouldn't mind selling it now for $150.


I have a text file with my password (it's like 200+ characters long) and that's how I keep mine secured.


----------



## Lagpirate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMattes*
> 
> Ive been looking into how to actually and safely get USD onto the market to buy these coins and for a week now I have not found one safe and reliable way.. Can someone PM me how to do it.
> I have read you need to go to BTC-e and sign up and then get USD on to the market but the half the company's that can help get you USD onto the market are scammers..
> 
> I was thinking of using Coinbase, but recently people are reporting a lot of problems with them where your money is tied up for weeks and some people even needed to close their bank accounts due to peoples.
> 
> Can someone help? I wanted to invest back when LTC were $7 but couldnt figure it out..


I'm in the same boat and I would appreciate it if someone could lend a hand. Every site I've gone to seems really sketchy.... Already lost out on a bunch of money already. I've been trying to invest since it was 7 dollars. Now the freaking price is skyrocketing and I'm left out in the cold!


----------



## pcfoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ashuiegi*
> 
> sorry but the value of a country money is based on economic growth and many other real factor that are too complexe to be manipulated , the value of bitcoin is only sustained by big volume of speculation which is only controlled by the biggest share(bitcoins) holder. maybe it give you the impression of freedom but you re even more controlled by people that no one elected and have 0 accountability . It s like a fish going from an aquarium to a net being sure he s heading for the ocean ,.....
> that is not secure at all , every transaction that you ever made is recorded , even if encoded it still recorded , when i spend my cash there is 0 trace of what i did with it , i can buy 200 dollar of candies, give them to a hobo or just keep them undefinitely, go in a brothel , there is no ways to know how i spend it.
> 
> it s not possible to prove that it s impossible to counterfeit or lure the system , there is also no way to know how many bitcoins were keep aside at the begening.
> 
> another point is do you declare what you have in bitcoins , is it taxable , should you pay taxe on them ? any governement could just declare them illegal in one night just for that reason because it s impossible to manage tax evasion in bitcoins, it s a threat to the national currency and taxe system. there is just no arguments or thing you could do against that from one day to another your money could be completely gone , no value internationally , no value inside your country , your legal national currency will never be worth nothing until the whole country is worthless,..... i call that very unsecure money


Sure...there is no money manipulation, no inflation, no artificial barriers...
In reality, countries can freely print as much money as they want for internal circulation...eventually trading partner countries might find out and the currency gets depreciated vs. other currencies, but there is little stopping them from literary printing money with very little to show for.

Fake and create lots of bitcoin? So do criminals counterweighting paper and coin money since day 1&#8230;impossible to stop that too.

Bitcoin is an artificial gimmick, true, it adds no value to our lives, true, but so does gold for example...
What's the value of gold? Its rare, its shiny, it was used as a gimmick exchange reference for ages. But does it "add" value to something? Not really. Rarity was its value.

Does that mean that with each gold mine found, things go south for the world economy? What if someone starts tapping into the vast amounts of minerals in the bottom of the ocean, or finds a way to refine volcanic magma based on molecular masses, much like we refine crude oil today? What if molecular scientists find a way to simply synthesize it from lighter elements?

Nothing is for granted, other than that Bitcoin gets manipulated just as much as anything else in stock markets and exchanges, where all those doing the "inside jobs" get away with it 99% of the time.
And as far as cash goes, those that need to know what you have, pretty much know what you have, unless you are getting cash money under the table. Most successful criminals know how to do that already, they need no bitcoins.

And as far as sustainability goes, plz, look around you, do some math...do you know what kind of embodied energy a gallon or liter of fuel has?
The combined carbon footprint of all BTC mined to date, is probably a day's worth of fuel for the US army playing around with a few tanks, or a minor mistake in the course of a warship, or lighting empty highway strips overnight in a couple of remote neighborhoods etc etc. and for californians - for sure it is less than what is wasted every day in fresh water in order to make our backyards in the middle of the once-desert, green (a commodity that embodies INSANE mounts of carbon in order to be moved around to SoCal).
It is clear that people don't care and most importantly cannot afford about having a small footprint in many of the important aspects of our lives - even those that pretent to.

Why? Cause of
Quote:


> many other real factor that are too complexe


----------



## bkal117

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lagpirate*
> 
> I'm in the same boat and I would appreciate it if someone could lend a hand. Every site I've gone to seems really sketchy.... Already lost out on a bunch of money already. I've been trying to invest since it was 7 dollars. Now the freaking price is skyrocketing and I'm left out in the cold!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vagrant Storm*
> 
> I personally made an online savings account at Ally Bank....I wired money into it and then wired money out of it to Coinbase. It worked fine for me, but then I've only done two transactions each for 5 coins. I think it took a couple hours to happen. Though i sold at $579 when the price was increasing last time...probably was a huge demand to buy coins at the time.


Guys, I used BitInstant and had no problems and invested like 300$ when it [email protected] 100$ each. Just went to my local Money Gram store in the ghetto and wire transferred to the transaction I made on my BitInstant account. Then had them send it to my wallet and then sent from my PC wallet to BTC-e. Where I traded a bit, profited a bit then sold...
Only took a matter of about 15min for the transfer to go through...

So idk if you guys looked into doing that, but it worked for me and a couple of my friends, no sketch, no stolen funds. The sketchiest part was BTC-e which is a Russian run site and had a couple attacks while I had Btc on there.


----------



## Bridden

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpii*
> 
> Hmm, back up over $1000 on mtgox...
> 
> I was looking at this last week after it went to 900, then back down to $480 ish. I did think about buying one/some, but felt it was 50/50 whether it would go up or down, and they're not great odds! Seems just like a very high risk, high reward, very volatile stock market, and is basically gambling as you can make much less of an informed decision than with stocks.
> 
> If it drops back down to $500 in a day or two, I still probably wouldn't invest, as as I see it there are too many unknown variables deciding the price... could well go down below $500 and stay there, or could shoot up.


It never really 'went up' to 900, that was just the highest sale at the time. I don't care about highest sales, I care about deviations and average. 900$ per btc means nothing if no one is willing to buy it because the average sale price is only 650. (that was the price at the time.) Now the average is up to over 1k...


----------



## JMattes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lagpirate*
> 
> I'm in the same boat and I would appreciate it if someone could lend a hand. Every site I've gone to seems really sketchy.... Already lost out on a bunch of money already. I've been trying to invest since it was 7 dollars. Now the freaking price is skyrocketing and I'm left out in the cold!


I hear you man.. I am hoping it goes down a little.. I think right now its a crazy hype from all the news buzz it has gotten over the last few weeks..
I havent seen any other information that leads me to believe there is a reason for the price increase..

Regardless I am trying to go through Coinbase.. I didnt want to give them my account information so I went with the deposit option.. From there I will buy the BTC coins tranfer them to BTC-e.com and get ltc.. hopefully I am not too late..

I was looking at them back when it was $2.. I was thinking of making a rig.. I never did.. I should of just spent that towards the coins themselves..


----------



## Yvese

Loving the jump in LTC. Week of mining casually and I already made $150









I wish I bought up a few dozen LTC when it was $4 last week though. I honestly did not think it would jump so much in a week.


----------



## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMattes*
> 
> Regardless I am trying to go through Coinbase.. I didnt want to give them my account information so I went with the deposit option.. From there I will buy the BTC coins tranfer them to BTC-e.com and get ltc.. hopefully I am not too late..


This is the route I started to go but my timing was terrible. I said screw it and linked a bank to coinbase, which then took 4 days to get the verified deposits. I went to do the ach transfer and now it wants another 4 business days for the deposit. 4 business days from now really mid-late next week







You're locked in at what you initially buy at. So if you bought a single bitcoin today for $1k, you can't touch it or transfer it until at least late next week when who knows what the value will be. It could be $1k, 2k, or nosedive back to $200. This whole thing is making me more and more irritated when I knew I should have started at least Litecoin mining months ago.


----------



## JMattes

Wow man it seems like all of us who currently not invest are on the same page..

I was going to start mining back in April.... would of been better if I did, or atleast invest.. Investing is hard from what I can see..
Mining you get the coins right away in your account but you dont have them all at once like if you were to invest..

I told my girlfriend if I wouldnt of invested the 2k I wanted to monthes ago I would have 28k in profit..
She will never think one of my ideas is dumb ever again..

First world problems right guys?


----------



## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMattes*
> 
> I told my girlfriend if I wouldnt of invested the 2k I wanted to monthes ago I would have 28k in profit..
> She will never think one of my ideas is dumb ever again..
> 
> First world problems right guys?


Or the even worse issue. Invest $1k into Bitcoins earlier this year and it would be worth $75k+ today


----------



## JMattes

Thinking about it makes me depressed..

Even if I tried to invest at $7 the orders wouldnt processed until now.. and I will still be stock.. I am trying to process the order now.. and I am sure it will be at $50 before i can get my money into ltc.

The shoulda coulda but didnt thread haha...


----------



## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMattes*
> 
> Thinking about it makes me depressed..
> 
> Even if I tried to invest at $7 the orders wouldnt processed until now.. and I will still be stock.. I am trying to process the order now.. and I am sure it will be at $50 before i can get my money into ltc.
> 
> The shoulda coulda but didnt thread haha...


I really could see btc doing another big drop like it did last week now that it's around $1k again. I don't see ltc dropping big anytime soon. So for now, I guess I'll wait until Monday and see how the markets go before I attempt to do an ach transfer (only really have 1 extra day of waiting vs the 7 total if I were to do the transfer today). In the meantime, my 7970's are cooking at an estimated 19 coins per month. More incentive for me to finish this damn thing, get it water cooled and get my BOINC rig back up and churning as well with its 5870s.


----------



## Creator

Serious question... is LTC in sell as get mode now? Profits are stupidly high per day. Even my Titans which I'm going to start up will make $12/day (at current prices) after consuming 700W of power. I'm getting awfully close to $100/day just mining LTC. I never though I'd ever even be making half this much per day, and just banked on a long-term sell strategy for price points (and my first $8 price point just got blown away). I figure if I sell as I get, I can use all of the money to buy back in LTC whenever the next correction is, if there's a next correction. If there isn't then I'll just be making $100/day for a while. And I'll hate myself even more when LTC is $100/each.

My original plan failed, when I sold $8.40 I was hoping to buy back in at $4-$5. Now I am just thinking about trying to average my selling price by selling LTC as I go, so that at some point maybe I can buy back in if my averaged up price ever meets market price.

Oh the madness!


----------



## AlDyer

I love LTC and when that starts to get too hard/unprofitable to mine casually on my 7950 I'll just jump to FTC as it seems to be very profitable too...


----------



## Faint

I'm extremely close to buying a 290 so i can mine LTC and FTC better.


----------



## Abs.exe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faint*
> 
> I'm extremely close to buying a 290 so i can mine LTC and FTC better.


Mine what ? 0.000001 BTC per week ?

ASIC is the only possible anwser to profitability.


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abs.exe*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Faint*
> 
> I'm extremely close to buying a 290 so i can mine LTC and FTC better.
> 
> 
> 
> Mine what ? 0.000001 BTC per week ?
> 
> ASIC is the only possible anwser to profitability.
Click to expand...

yup, you can't mine ltc profitably right now....


----------



## Abs.exe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> yup, you can't mine ltc profitably right now....


Sorry I thought it was BTC, since you say it's profitable, imagine a few ASIC miner








Now talk about profitability.


----------



## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abs.exe*
> 
> Mine what ? 0.000001 BTC per week ?
> 
> ASIC is the only possible anwser to profitability.


You read that entirely wrong...


----------



## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creator*
> 
> Serious question... is LTC in sell as get mode now? Profits are stupidly high per day. Even my Titans which I'm going to start up will make $12/day (at current prices) after consuming 700W of power. I'm getting awfully close to $100/day just mining LTC. I never though I'd ever even be making half this much per day, and just banked on a long-term sell strategy for price points (and my first $8 price point just got blown away). I figure if I sell as I get, I can use all of the money to buy back in LTC whenever the next correction is, if there's a next correction. If there isn't then I'll just be making $100/day for a while. And I'll hate myself even more when LTC is $100/each.


$100 a day with dual Titans? What hashrate are you getting? The spreadsheet I'm looking at is about 300-350khash for ltc on a titan. Where'd the $100 per day come from?


----------



## Abs.exe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Angrybutcher*
> 
> $100 a day with dual Titans? What hashrate are you getting? The spreadsheet I'm looking at is about 300-350khash for ltc on a titan. Where'd the $100 per day come from?


Starting up his titan most likely means he has other rigs running.


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abs.exe*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> yup, you can't mine ltc profitably right now....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry I thought it was BTC, since you say it's profitable, imagine a few ASIC miner
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now talk about profitability.
Click to expand...

it'd be exactly 0, since when can asics mine ltc


----------



## Asy

bought 500 ltc at 2$ sold them yesterday at 22...now its up to 28$ >< doh


----------



## Angrybutcher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asy*
> 
> bought 500 ltc at 2$ sold them yesterday at 22...now its up to 28$ >< doh


I hate you









lol


----------



## ALUCARDVPR

I just sold 20 BTC









It was a super risky investment, especially with the super nova pattern, but it paid off.

Penny stocks are waay more profitable and predictable.


----------



## zemco999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ALUCARDVPR*
> 
> I just sold 20 BTC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was a super risky investment, especially with the super nova pattern, but it paid off.
> 
> Penny stocks are waay more profitable and predictable.


What did you sell at? congrasts. I just saw it hit 965 again http://preev.com/


----------



## ALUCARDVPR

$983.89


----------



## selk22

Alright guys I am sorry to be the noob here but I really need some help setting up my LTC mine with this 290x!

I really dont mind trying to figure out the best settings for my hashrate myself but I cant get my miner to start!!

Using GUIminer and give-me-coins.com here is screen


So I click start and it just sits at starting? What am I doing wrong here! Also the username, what is this talking about? My give-me-coins.com username?

I know this is slightly off topic but these were 20$ yesterday and now 35$ I want to get on this asap so any help would be appreciated


----------



## Stuuut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *selk22*
> 
> Alright guys I am sorry to be the noob here but I really need some help setting up my LTC mine with this 290x!
> 
> I really dont mind trying to figure out the best settings for my hashrate myself but I cant get my miner to start!!
> 
> Using GUIminer and give-me-coins.com here is screen
> 
> 
> So I click start and it just sits at starting? What am I doing wrong here! Also the username, what is this talking about? My give-me-coins.com username?
> 
> I know this is slightly off topic but these were 20$ yesterday and now 35$ I want to get on this asap so any help would be appreciated


Ok so on give-me-coins website you need to create a worker.
It will probably be username.1 and you also set a password on it something simple like 1234 since its only for the worker to deposit the stuff into your give-me-coins account.


----------



## Jeffinslaw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *selk22*
> 
> Alright guys I am sorry to be the noob here but I really need some help setting up my LTC mine with this 290x!
> 
> I really dont mind trying to figure out the best settings for my hashrate myself but I cant get my miner to start!!
> 
> Using GUIminer and give-me-coins.com here is screen
> 
> 
> So I click start and it just sits at starting? What am I doing wrong here! Also the username, what is this talking about? My give-me-coins.com username?
> 
> I know this is slightly off topic but these were 20$ yesterday and now 35$ I want to get on this asap so any help would be appreciated


Check the link in my sig on how to get started mining Litecoins!









Jeffinslaw


----------



## selk22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stuuut*
> 
> Ok so on give-me-coins website you need to create a worker.
> It will probably be username.1 and you also set a password on it something simple like 1234 since its only for the worker to deposit the stuff into your give-me-coins account.


Thanks very much that's all I needed! 750k/h right out the door! Lets see what I can do with this now!

+rep


----------



## Stuuut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *selk22*
> 
> Thanks very much that's all I needed! 750k/h right out the door! Lets see what I can do with this now!
> 
> +rep


whats the average on your dashboard? anyways keep an eye out for rejects and hardware errors they will push down your average kh/s on the dashboard.


----------



## selk22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stuuut*
> 
> whats the average on your dashboard? anyways keep an eye out for rejects and hardware errors they will push down your average kh/s on the dashboard.


126 accepted 5 stale/invalid

but on give me coins im getting really crappy 114-125k/h is that what your talking about?


----------



## Stuuut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *selk22*
> 
> 126 accepted 5 stale/invalid
> 
> but on give me coins im getting really crappy 114-125k/h is that what your talking about?


yes
play around with intensity and thread concurrency. look up some settings for your card


----------



## selk22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stuuut*
> 
> yes
> play around with intensity and thread concurrency. look up some settings for your card


Awesome just achieved 620 k/h on the givemecoins now. So things got better with a bit lower thread concurrency around 27400 but lower in the 16000 didnt cut it


----------



## Siigari

I bought .64 BTC when it dropped last week, and I just won 0.5 BTC yesterday so now I have 1.14 BTC.

I'm gonna cash it out though, because I just bought 5 r9 280x video cards and a cheap-o computer to set them up in. See my second sig rig.

I'm pretty stoked, gonna make some easy Litecoins. I don't even really care about the USD value right now, it's gonna be a long-term investment. Cashing out 10% each month, reinvesting 50% and saving 40%.


----------



## dzalias

Too bad 7950 prices skyrocketed and then stocks dried up. I've been mining on my 6850s for a couple weeks now.


----------



## dogbiscuit

Seems my estimate of $1500 BTC by Xmas is looking pretty good....


----------



## JMattes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dogbiscuit*
> 
> Seems my estimate of $1500 BTC by Xmas is looking pretty good....


Fast forwarding a week there down hard.. maybe next week they will be at $1500 haha


----------



## ZTR1760

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMattes*
> 
> Fast forwarding a week there down hard.. maybe next week they will be at $1500 haha


Yea even without the chinese banks banning btc there was bound to be some sort of correction anyway. Too many people were pumping and waiting to dump.


----------



## computerparts

With a big surge always comes a big crash


----------



## QSS-5

near the Christmas holidays people want to buy gifts, just look at the volume of supply double in a few days and the demand stayed the same= value cut in half just wait until next year, profit


----------



## dogbiscuit

Nope, just feels right somehow. Max Keiser says $1700 I think. Got to be at least five grand next year. No science, just hunches.


----------



## dogbiscuit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZTR1760*
> 
> Yea even without the chinese banks banning btc there was bound to be some sort of correction anyway. Too many people were pumping and waiting to dump.


Yeah there's a lot of that - people all over twitter bragging about it.


----------



## JMattes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dogbiscuit*
> 
> Yeah there's a lot of that - people all over twitter bragging about it.


Bragging about what exactly?

How they made a ton of money and how the coins are worth less now than what they cashed out at?

Or hot its slowly going down?


----------



## SuprUsrStan

Gosh bitcoin is taking a beating today. Should I buy one for $640?


----------



## dzalias

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> Gosh bitcoin is taking a beating today. Should I buy one for $640?


Buy as many as you can afford. I bought all that I could, which atm is like $100 worth.


----------



## ZTR1760

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dzalias*
> 
> Buy as many as you can afford. I bought all that I could, which atm is like $100 worth.


It still has a bit to tank, a quick look at the chart and there doesn't seem to be any support until ~550 if it drops past the 600 barrier (btc-e). Still not sure exactly why this giant sell off is happening though.

Edit: nvmd thought the china thing already had its impact.


----------



## mk16

anyone got a link to where i can watch how much BTC are going for as we speak.


----------



## Zealon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mk16*
> 
> anyone got a link to where i can watch how much BTC are going for as we speak.


here you go, a live graph to the popular exchanges

http://bitcoinwisdom.com/


----------



## mk16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zealon*
> 
> here you go, a live graph to the popular exchanges
> 
> http://bitcoinwisdom.com/


thanks that is the exact one i was looking for but couldnt find.


----------



## supperman

Its up, its down, man i feel like i missed the party


----------



## motokill36

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *supperman*
> 
> Its up, its down, man i feel like i missed the party


For sure i cant stop trying to find a pair of good 7950 to mine with . lol
But also feel like i mist the waggon some how


----------



## JMattes

You can't mine BTC with GPU's anymore and LTC difficulty just started increasing again.. So given a few more months if you pay electricity you will be paying to mine and not making any profit unless the coin value goes about say.. $40+


----------



## AlphaC

BTC rebounded back to ~900 at BTC-e , MtGox, Vircurex, Kraken, Cryptotrade, etc


----------



## motokill36

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMattes*
> 
> You can't mine BTC with GPU's anymore and LTC difficulty just started increasing again.. So given a few more months if you pay electricity you will be paying to mine and not making any profit unless the coin value goes about say.. $40+


you must have to make them in advance taking the risk that you may loos money in future but maybe make some yes ?


----------



## JMattes

Well with LTC Even a year ago you could of made a profit mining them.. similar to some of the known alt coins now..

However the real pay off would of been holding on the coins.. and still may be..

But yes with ltc the ship sailed a bit...


----------



## TheN00bBuilder

WOW! Next time Bitcoins get really cheap, I'm gonna buy 5 of em! Then wait 2 years and 1000+ PROFIT!!!


----------



## thanos999

ow do i start mining these

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/coinye-coin-kanye-west-lawyers-attempt-block-bitcoin-155633526.html#NXP2Eki

i only got a few hours before they are released


----------



## JMattes

Good luck with that one.. what happens if Kanye's lawyers get involved which they are?


----------



## AlDyer

They will release the coin regardless


----------



## votum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JMattes*
> 
> Good luck with that one.. what happens if Kanye's lawyers get involved which they are?


I dont knwo wht happened when his lawyers got involved from the south park episode?

Nothing.


----------



## DaMirrorLink

I just wish that when they were around $15 each a few years ago I would have spent a couple paychecks just buying them up...


----------



## JMattes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaMirrorLink*
> 
> I just wish that when they were around $15 each a few years ago I would have spent a couple paychecks just buying them up...


Don't we all....


----------



## TheN00bBuilder

When they godown, I'm buying 2. Just for the heck of it.


----------



## Chaython

Bitcoin value falls another 20 percent = $310
Quote:


> Ongoing technical issues this morning on the MtGox Bitcoin exchange servers have caused the value of the digital crypto-currency to plunge by an additional 20 percent on top of last Friday's dramatic fall in value.
> 
> The currency traded for about $850 a coin for much of last week according to CoinDesk, which keep logs of Bitcoin's value over time, before plummeting to about $680 on Friday morning. Because of today's additional 20 percent loss, Bitcoins were worth just $538 at around 11 a.m. this morning - nearly half of what they reached last summer when the value of one Bitcoin soared to $1,000. The currency's value has begun to pick up again as the day has progressed to close at about $670.
> 
> MtGox is one of the largest and oldest Bitcoin exchanges in the world, but withdrawals to external wallets from its servers were suspended over the weekend as its technical team investigated issues with how withdrawal requests for Bitcoins are processed. The work required meant that the servers had to shut down, although they were supposed to restart this morning.
> 
> The exchange has now said in a statement that customers will not be able to transfer Bitcoins to an external wallet address until Tuesday at the earliest. This led to the dramatical plummeting in value of Bitcoin by nearly $310.
> 
> Bitcoin is known for its volatility of price and has seen many large fluctuations in its value in the past. The general trend is that the value will steadily increase for a few months before meeting dramatic fluctuations like the ones that we have seen over the past week, and investors in Bitcoin mining equipment are now beginning to become wise to Bitcoin's high price volatility.


----------



## Blameless

MtGox is a terrible exchange. The only reason to ever have used them was that they used to be a virtual monopoly and that withdrawls used to be fairly easy with Dwolla.

Now, there are numerous other exchanges, and MtGox has essentially no convenient way to withdraw fiat currencies, plus they still have obscene security requirements to only their own benefit, not their users. They are dishonest thieves who have thoroughly cashed in on their early entry into the market and their continued existence is a liability for Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chaython*
> 
> Bitcoin value falls another 20 percent = $310


BTC is currently hovering around $700 at the major exchanges.


----------



## SuprUsrStan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chaython*
> 
> Bitcoin value falls another 20 percent = $310
> 
> Ongoing technical issues this morning on the MtGox Bitcoin exchange servers have caused the value of the digital crypto-currency to plunge by an additional 20 percent on top of last Friday's dramatic fall in value.
> 
> The currency traded for about $850 a coin for much of last week according to CoinDesk, which keep logs of Bitcoin's value over time, before plummeting to about $680 on Friday morning. Because of today's additional 20 percent loss, Bitcoins were worth just $538 at around 11 a.m. this morning - nearly half of what they reached last summer when the value of one Bitcoin soared to $1,000. The currency's value has begun to pick up again as the day has progressed to close at about $670.
> 
> MtGox is one of the largest *smallest by volume long been the ridicule of the bitcoin world* and oldest Bitcoin exchanges in the world, but withdrawals to external wallets from its servers were suspended over the weekend as its technical team investigated issues with how withdrawal requests for Bitcoins are processed. The work required meant that the servers had to shut down, although they were supposed to restart this morning.
> 
> The exchange has now said in a statement that customers will not be able to transfer Bitcoins to an external wallet address until Tuesday at the earliest. This led to the dramatical plummeting in value of Bitcoin by nearly $310.
> 
> Bitcoin is known for its volatility of price and has seen many large fluctuations in its value in the past. The general trend is that the value will steadily increase for a few months before meeting dramatic fluctuations like the ones that we have seen over the past week, and investors in Bitcoin mining equipment are now beginning to become wise to Bitcoin's high price volatility.


FTFY


----------



## Jeffinslaw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chaython*
> 
> Bitcoin value falls another 20 percent = $310


And I believe it was because someone dropped 14,000BTC into the market, not because of MtGox being a failure.


----------



## eseb1

I'll see if I can buy some tonight, hoping it goes back up to $700/btc soon so I can buy a new Macbook.


----------



## Jeffinslaw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eseb1*
> 
> I'll see if I can buy some tonight, hoping it goes back up to $700/btc soon so I can buy a new Macbook.


Don't bother, the prices rebounded extremely quickly. It's around $675-690.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffinslaw*
> 
> And I believe it was because someone dropped 14,000BTC into the market, not because of MtGox being a failure.


Yes, these are only incidentally related truths.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eseb1*
> 
> I'll see if I can buy some tonight, hoping it goes back up to $700/btc soon so I can buy a new Macbook.


You are far too late. They were back in the 700 dollars again before this article was ever published.

Mt. Gox prices are still slightly depressed, but good luck getting money into them, buying BTC, and then being able to withdraw it without issue. You are better off finding a loan shark and doubling down on Russian Roulette.


----------



## Tennobanzai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Mt. Gox prices are still slightly depressed, but good luck getting money into them, buying BTC, and then being able to withdraw it without issue. You are better off finding a loan shark and doubling down on Russian Roulette.


Is this really the case? I wanted to buy 1 btc and try to see where it takes me


----------



## RedCloudFuneral

What exchange sites would you recommend?


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tennobanzai*
> 
> Is this really the case? I wanted to buy 1 btc and try to see where it takes me


MtGox is a gamble. Most people get what they pay for, most of the time, but some people get screwed. Regardless, even when things are working well, they are slow. Withdrawing BTC usually works ok (assuming your account hasn't been breached and looted in the meantime), but withdrawing fiat currencies is like pulling teeth.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RedCloudFuneral*
> 
> What exchange sites would you recommend?


Bitstamp is my current exchange of choice for BTC, but almost anything is better than MtGox.


----------



## SIDWULF

Everyone hoping to make it big with internet currency...

You are all clearly chasing money...I have seen this phenomenon everywhere and I believe if I participated I would feel very desperate and pathetic.

It would just feel plain wrong for me to get excited about internet currency. I don't know how people do it.


----------



## SIDWULF

I hope I didn't come off to much of an ass already...not the best way to get my point across.


----------



## eseb1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SIDWULF*
> 
> Everyone hoping to make it big with internet currency...
> 
> Your all clearly chasing money...Thats so desperate and pathetic. Why do you waste your time?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SIDWULF*
> 
> So you have all become investors now? Bloodshot dollar sign eyes? Raging boners when the coins rise?
> 
> Great...


1/10 for effort, but erase your sig rig next time before going on an anti-consumption trolling expedition.


----------



## SkillzKillz

According to the charts Bitcoin hit a low of 102 just after 6pm yesterday. Is this true?



Source


----------



## dioxholster

okay guys time to sell you amd cards now, no point in having them.


----------



## mk16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dioxholster*
> 
> okay guys time to sell you amd cards now, no point in having them.


yepyep
this all the way.


----------



## Blast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SIDWULF*
> 
> Everyone hoping to make it big with internet currency...
> 
> You are all clearly chasing money...I have seen this phenomenon everywhere and I believe if I participated I would feel very desperate and pathetic.
> 
> It would just feel plain wrong for me to get excited about internet currency. I don't know how people do it.


Money is incentive, but it is about more than money. Cryptocurrencies stand to replace our awful banking system. Crypto's offer global economic units (at least more so than we have now), decentralization, cheaper transaction fees, better security, and it is non-inflationary. Central banking is pretty much a giant ponzi scheme. [Well, I would accept that it wasn't necessarily from its creation, but it has become that over time.]

I do agree with you on one part - people are trying to make it big. Unless they have a truly impressive coin concept, I don't think they should pursue it. Makes the crypto scene look bad when it is flooded with a bunch of crapcoins.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkillzKillz*
> 
> According to the charts Bitcoin hit a low of 102 just after 6pm yesterday. Is this true?
> 
> 
> 
> Source


Yup. Mt. Gox (a bitcoin exchange) had a misleading statement that bitcoin was flawed due to the ability to alter transaction numbers I believe. What they didn't mention is that it was their own software that was buggy. They have also locked people out of deposit and withdraw right now - my roommate said people should be able to withdraw coins by Monday.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkillzKillz*
> 
> According to the charts Bitcoin hit a low of 102 just after 6pm yesterday. Is this true?


On MtGox, yes.

Some lucky bastards with orders queued up managed to get a handful of coins very cheap.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blast*
> 
> Mt. Gox (a bitcoin exchange) had a misleading statement that bitcoin was flawed due to the ability to alter transaction numbers I believe. What they didn't mention is that it was their own software that was buggy. They have also locked people out of deposit and withdraw right now - my roommate said people should be able to withdraw coins by Monday.


Pretty ironic that a member of the BitCoin foundation would try to undermine the credibility of the currency itself rather than admit to their own shoddy implementation. Then again, this sort of crap is par for the course with MtGox.


----------



## Blast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Pretty ironic that a member of the BitCoin foundation would try to undermine the credibility of the currency itself rather than admit to their own shoddy implementation. Then again, this sort of crap is par for the course with MtGox.


No doubt!

I'm not sure why they didn't acknowledge their mistakes, but perhaps it was simply MagicalTux (Gox CEO) and his associates looking to take advantage of a bad situation - misleading announcement can cover up their mistake and allow them to pick up some cheap coins - this is purely speculative.


----------



## Domino

So a coin that holds no physical value to world economics, being that, this coin has no connection to the amount of supplies or confidence in a nation of the physical world, has yet to be banned and attacked by every country on the planet? BTC won't ensure me that Canada will be able to supply the world economy practical goods but rather randomly generated "coins" that hold no use to the world. Sweet.


----------



## Heruur

There goes any chances for amd card prices to come down =/


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> So a coin that holds no physical value to world economics, being that, this coin has no connection to the amount of supplies or confidence in a nation of the physical world, has yet to be banned and attacked by every country on the planet?


Most of these criteria aren't met by any fiat currency by definition, and several nations have placed more confidence in Bitcoin than in some nation's official currencies.

The only nations that have outright banned Bitcoin, or any other cryptocurrency, are Thailand and Russia, while China has placed significant restrictions on the conversion of Bitcoins to fiat.

Most nations in the so-called free world are cautiously accepting of cryptocurrency. Germany officially and explicitly acknowledges Bitcoin, while the US is rapidly setting precedents that treats it as money. Several smaller governments or affiliated entities actually accept them.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> So a coin that holds no physical value to world economics, being that, this coin has no connection to the amount of supplies or confidence in a nation of the physical world, has yet to be banned and attacked by every country on the planet?
> 
> 
> 
> Most of these criteria aren't met by any fiat currency by definition, and several nations have placed more confidence in Bitcoin than in some nation's official currencies.
Click to expand...

Sources? Or are you just basing it off of Newegg and other shops that beginning to accept bitcoin. Any official statements where they have said that BTC should replace the national dollar and the concept to that market. If not, it's a load of crap and just some kiddy made-up money scam trying to challenge legal currency.


----------



## ForceProjection

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Sources? Or are you just basing it off of Newegg and other shops that beginning to accept bitcoin. Any official statements where they have said that BTC should replace the national dollar and the concept to that market. If not, it's a load of crap and just some kiddy made-up money scam trying to challenge legal currency.


No one said anything about supplanting or replacing a national currency. You certainly have a severe problem with putting words in people mouth (or posts as it were), that were never said nor implied. Typically, I wouldn't even bother replying to your inane posts in these topics, but since I wasn't signed in, & my ignore list wasn't active... Legitimate enough sources for you?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100971898]
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100971898[/URL]

http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/19/germany-recognizes-bitcoin-as-private-money-sales-tax-coming-soon/

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/19/bitcoin-unit-of-account-germany

http://www.zerohedge.com/node/477785

Now, take your FUD elsewhere please. Have a nice evening.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Sources?


http://www.cnbc.com/id/100971898

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/11/18/this-senate-hearing-is-a-bitcoin-lovefest/ - includes statements of intent by US officials that existing law should be sufficient to regulate cryptocurrencies.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-09/miami-bitcoin-arrests-may-be-first-state-prosecution.html - proof that existing laws regarding money, not commodities or anything else, are being applied to Bitcoins in some US jurisdictions. Exact same thing would have happened, under the same laws, if someone were trying to do the same conversion of large amounts of US Dollars to Euros, but not if they were trying to trade the dollars for a car, a WoW account, or a really good blowjob.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/01/27/this-map-shows-which-countries-are-friendly-to-bitcoin/

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-05/china-s-pboc-bans-financial-companies-from-bitcoin-transactions.html

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100923551
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Or are you just basing it off of Newegg and other shops that beginning to accept bitcoin.


Newegg isn't a government, neither are most shops.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Any official statements where they have said that BTC should replace the national dollar


Not something I came within a light-year of implying.

I was pointing out that there are some sovereign currencies held in such low regard that next to no one will take them, and those nations beginning to legally acknowledge Bitcoin as a medium of exchange are more likely to accept them than they are something like Zimbabwean Dollars, for example.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> If not, it's a load of crap and just some kiddy made-up money scam trying to challenge legal currency.


This statement is proof positive that you are both biased and clueless when it comes to cryptocurrencies.


----------



## DullBoi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hazzardous77jo*
> 
> You better start with some bitcoin tutorials. This is not some of those get rich quick schemes,if played careful and keep an eye on the bitcoin price you actually may earn something.
> Do some reading about bitcoin mining,or maybe litecoin mining. I think you will get interested after it


what he said


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Sources? Or are you just basing it off of Newegg and other shops that beginning to accept bitcoin. Any official statements where they have said that BTC should replace the national dollar and the concept to that market. If not, it's a load of crap and just some kiddy made-up money scam trying to challenge legal currency.


"Can I have a source from that? Apart from the fact that fairly large chains are beginning to accept it as money?"


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Sources?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/id/100971898
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/11/18/this-senate-hearing-is-a-bitcoin-lovefest/ - includes statements of intent by US officials that existing law should be sufficient to regulate cryptocurrencies.
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-09/miami-bitcoin-arrests-may-be-first-state-prosecution.html - proof that existing laws regarding money, not commodities or anything else, are being applied to Bitcoins in some US jurisdictions. Exact same thing would have happened, under the same laws, if someone were trying to do the same conversion of large amounts of US Dollars to Euros, but not if they were trying to trade the dollars for a car, a WoW account, or a really good blowjob.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/01/27/this-map-shows-which-countries-are-friendly-to-bitcoin/
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-05/china-s-pboc-bans-financial-companies-from-bitcoin-transactions.html
> 
> http://www.cnbc.com/id/100923551
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Or are you just basing it off of Newegg and other shops that beginning to accept bitcoin.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Newegg isn't a government, neither are most shops.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Any official statements where they have said that BTC should replace the national dollar
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not something I came within a light-year of implying.
> 
> I was pointing out that there are some sovereign currencies held in such low regard that next to no one will take them, and those nations beginning to legally acknowledge Bitcoin as a medium of exchange are more likely to accept them than they are something like Zimbabwean Dollars, for example.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> If not, it's a load of crap and just some kiddy made-up money scam trying to challenge legal currency.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This statement is proof positive that you are both biased and clueless when it comes to cryptocurrencies.
Click to expand...

After trying to find a glimpse of supporting evidence in your first 3 sources, I gave up. Absolutely non of these sources stated any form of "confidence" in the currency but rather recognition of it's existence as a private form of currency based on nothing but a made up currency of no basis other than imaginative-electronic value system based on imaginative-electronic quantities; non of which are tied to real existence of confidence in market use govern by supply and demand of actual goods. It's a private currency. Anyone can take monopoly money and do the same thing. Change bitcoin to monopoly money and your sources would argue that monopoly money was accept as a private form of currency and needs to be regulated.

Let's also not forget what happened in the past when we made private currencies not based on world economics. Remember Hitler's Germany?

Make sure you read your sources before posting them as "evidence" to "confidence" in the private currency. Recognising it as a private currency is no different then someone selling goods for drugs. Well, actually, there is a significant different, one is real the other is not.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> After trying to find a glimpse of supporting evidence in your first 3 sources, I gave up.


You couldn't find supporting evidence for something I never claimed in the sources I provided? You don't say.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Absolutely non of these sources stated any form of "confidence" in the currency


I was not arguing about nation-states confidence in any particular cryptocurrency or cryptocurrencies in general.

I _did_ point out the utter lack of confidence in some national currencies, to illustrate the point that being a national currency doesn't necessarily mean anything.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> but rather recognition of it's existence as a private form of currency


Which is all I claimed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> based on nothing but a made up currency of no basis other than imaginative-electronic value system based on imaginative-electronic quantities; non of which are tied to real existence of confidence in market use govern by supply and demand of actual goods. It's a private currency. Anyone can take monopoly money and do the same thing. Change bitcoin to monopoly money and your sources would argue that monopoly money was accept as a private form of currency and needs to be regulated.


This is completely incorrect.

You cannot just arbitrarily create a cryptocurrency with value. There has to be supply and demand. The value is determined by the market for it. Obviously there is a market for many cryptos. This is possible because you cannot arbitrarily create new units of crypto currencies. Supply is controlled more tightly, and counterfeiting more difficult, than with any national fiat currency in existence. Monopoly money could never have the same properties.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Recognising it as a private currency is no different then someone selling goods for drugs. Well, actually, there is a significant different, one is real the other is not.


Regarding the Florida case, you are also incorrect. Exchanging cash for Monopoly money, or drugs, or anything besides a legally recognized instrument of exchange would not have fallen under the same laws.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Make sure you read your sources before posting them as "evidence" to "confidence" in the private currency.


Again, I made no such claim.


----------



## Pip Boy

The person who invented bitcoin was probably one of the smartest people on the planet. Claiming they were some 14yr old script kiddie is the height of ignorance and trolling

what an idiotic statement to make


----------



## eseb1

Domino is clearly trolling, with all his straw man fallacies, or he's just awful at comprehending what he read.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eseb1*
> 
> Domino is clearly trolling, with all his straw man fallacies, or he's just awful at comprehending what he read.


Non of sources suggested confidence in bitcoin, which is what the argument was about.









...but lets change that so we don't lose our OCN cred and keep the imaginary money rolling. It is based on imaginative values. You mine a figurative amount of coin that is limited in number. You are more useful folding proteins than mining. Mining is nearly useless to society.


----------



## ZaknafeinGR

I would argue that mining (which is a transaction verification mechanism primarily) is actually useful, as it is a much cheaper way of validating online transactions than the methods used for fiat currencies.

And really, I'm more interested in the bitcoin network than the currency, in the end we've found ways to solve issues of trading products&services for centuries, developing and running a massive decentralized network however is something quite new.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Non of sources suggested confidence in bitcoin, which is what the argument was about.


This is not what my argument was about.

Stop misrepresenting my posts.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZaknafeinGR*
> 
> I would argue that mining (which is a transaction verification mechanism primarily) is actually useful, as it is a much cheaper way of validating online transactions than the methods used for fiat currencies.
> 
> And really, I'm more interested in the bitcoin network than the currency, in the end we've found ways to solve issues of trading products&services for centuries, developing and running a massive decentralized network however is something quite new.


Indeed, its a revolutionary way to rapidly and securely validate transactions, which is why cryptocurrency (not necessarily any specific one, or any existing one, but something based on the same principles) is here to stay; it has the potential to solve a real and widespread problem.


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blameless*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Non of sources suggested confidence in bitcoin, which is what the argument was about.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not what my argument was about.
> 
> Stop misrepresenting my posts.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ZaknafeinGR*
> 
> I would argue that mining (which is a transaction verification mechanism primarily) is actually useful, as it is a much cheaper way of validating online transactions than the methods used for fiat currencies.
> 
> And really, I'm more interested in the bitcoin network than the currency, in the end we've found ways to solve issues of trading products&services for centuries, developing and running a massive decentralized network however is something quite new.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Indeed, its a revolutionary way to rapidly and securely validate transactions, which is why cryptocurrency (not necessarily any specific one, or any existing one, but something based on the same principles) is here to stay; it has the potential to solve a real and widespread problem.
Click to expand...

then you were obviously ranting over nothing I was talking about. Lol


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> then you were obviously ranting over nothing I was talking about. Lol


I read your post and responded to specific statements of yours.

You must have skipped over most of mine.


----------

