# Zowie releases EC1-A and EC2-A



## pyrexshorts

http://zowiegear.com/index.php?i=news&p=62

Seems to be the same as the EC's, but with a new sensor, the fk coating, and the weight seems to be lower.


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## writer21

Yep soon as it's on Amazon it's mines!


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## ooxxy

Looks like fans of the ec mice wishes were granted.


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## the1onewolf

Nice, but will the scroll wheel actually work?

Oh hey new logo also

Quote:


> Vincent Tang, CEO for ZOWIE GEAR, had the following to say about the release:
> 
> "The idea of the EC Series carrying the AVAGO 3310 (EC1-A & EC2-A) was developed and tested in early September, 2014. It was my decision not to launch this new series. We have started to receive many emails from players regarding this product and this made me realize that I had made a huge mistake by ignoring those who were in need of what they loved. I would like to apologize to those people who have supported the EC series. ZOWIE GEAR will continue to offer a variety of products, happy gaming."


Good stuff









I can't wait for another round of
+ Flaking coating
+ Button lag/click delay
+ Skipping Scroll wheel notches
to start 2015 off!

OR are they going to introduce new QC defects?
I can't wait!
Whoo!
Keep up the good work Zowie!


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## powah91

Did the previous EC series have the button lag that the FK1 supposedly has?


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## cKwok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *powah91*
> 
> Did the previous EC series have the button lag that the FK1 supposedly has?


I'm pretty sure it will, Regardless im gonna buy one!!!!


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## munchzilla

well I am really tempted to pick one up... need to get ahold of my old EC2 eVo and see if I still can get used to the shape.


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## popups

So that means it still has the scroll wheel flaw?


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## rebecca black

Do these have the same switches as the fk1 that everybody seems to dislike?


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## cKwok

the scroll wheel looks the same but I thought they fixed it in the EC2 eVo CL, cause I have that mouse and the scroll wheel is perfectly fine. Yes they still use huano switches, its preference.


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## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cKwok*
> 
> Yes they still use huano switches, its preference.


So the NEW EC1's and EC2's have all Huano's instead of the standard Omron's?


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## Maximillion

Huanos are sort of the trademark of Zowie, just like the driverless thing. Apparently (?) the FK2 has lighter huanos than what has been implemented in previous mice (including the FK1). Perhaps these EC-As will use those as well. I don't think they remedy the button lag issue, though.

I currently own an EC1 eVo CL and love the shape but it's a bit too bulky (more cumbersome for micro-adjustments) so I'll probably pick up an EC2-A this time around.


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## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I currently own an EC1 eVo CL and love the shape but it's a bit too bulky (more cumbersome for micro-adjustments) so I'll probably pick up an EC2-A this time around.


Same here, I bought the same as you plus an all glossy white model way back.

Would like to see Zowie step up here with some decent input devices but so far the basics like a DECENT scroll wheel hasn't been addressed yet. When someone gets the first EC2-A in their hot hands please do a scroller test to see if it has been improved over all the previous releases.

A decent mouse doesn't exist until it is fitted with a REAL kick-arse scroll wheel that never falters under any conditions. Hope they also fix the lagging issues with their current models that everyone here on OCN is complaining about.


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## irakyl

Will they refresh the AM line ? Iove the AM-FG though


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## mksteez

Nice! Picking up a EC2-A for sure!


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## FlailScHLAMP

meh, missing DPI button I'll pass for a 3310 mouse with that.


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## discoprince

FINALLY
ec2 shape with 800dpi now woo woo yes yesy esy finallllyyyy
i waited all last year for this!


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## AnimalK

Now begins the endless pondering on which model to buy.


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## JustinSane

Really wish they would address click latency.









EC2 looks nice! Never realized how much lighter it was than the EC1. I used to rock an EC1 back in the day when they first came out. Loved it, hated the eVo coating so I had to jump ship.


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## cKwok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> Now begins the endless pondering on which model to buy.


If you like the deathadder get the ec1, if you like the deathadder but you have small hands and really like low sensitivity where you pick up your mouse and do fast swipes to turn get the ec2. I am getting the ec2!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> Really wish they would address click latency.


Yes I wish so too, regardless I'm getting an ec2 because I love the sensor more than the other 3310 mice, and the shape! one of the most important things is the comfort of the shape!


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## popups

When I commented about the scroll wheel I meant the shell of the mouse has a design flaw that allows the scroll wheel to jump out of place as you scroll. This issue results in missed scrolls as the plastic piece moves out of alignment from the sensor. This is one major reason I don't use my EC anymore.


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## cKwok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> When I commented about the scroll wheel I meant the shell of the mouse has a design flaw that allows the scroll wheel to jump out of place as you scroll. This issue results in missed scrolls as the plastic piece moves out of alignment from the sensor. This is one major reason I don't use my EC anymore.


Yea my EC2 evo CL doesn't do this, the scroll wheel is in place. My original EC2 the scroll wheel would wobble.


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## Aventadoor

This is an instant buy for me.
I loved the EC1 eVo CL. But as people in here have said, its bulky, so Ill get a EC2 this time.

EC1 is very easy to click duo to its shell design. I wouldent worry about the latency.
Not sure how the EC2 is, but it should be similar, althought the shell is a little bit smaller


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## Nilizum

the new EC2 seems to be slightly bigger than the old.


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## 7Teku

Well, it's about damn time.


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## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> the new EC2 seems to be slightly bigger than the old.


Yet slightly lighter as well.


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## Ino.

Going to get the EC2 version this time around, looks like the perfect size


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## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Going to get the EC2 version this time around, looks like the perfect size


Yeah I'm quite tempted to grab the EC2 as well.


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## SmashTV

I'll wait for the second wave. Got my EC1 EVO in the last batches and I haven't had any of the issues consistently complained about.


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## CookieBook

No lefty version no party.


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## Maximillion

Will the scroll wheel still illuminate based on CPI step? I know it's nitpicky but as an 800 CPI user I don't necessarily want to have a purple wheel









I think the FKs light at the bottom is perfect.


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## Aventadoor

I'm pretty sure it will.
How can you not like purple?


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## Maximillion

Purple is actually one of my fav colors, it just wouldn't match my setup


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## IlIkeJuice

Called it. About time!

And new rubber on their mouse pads. I'm on a roll







But not on the G-TF / P-TF? Hmm :'(


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## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Will the scroll wheel still illuminate based on CPI step? I know it's nitpicky but as an 800 CPI user I don't necessarily want to have a purple wheel
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think the FKs light at the bottom is perfect.


You use 800dpi, clearly you're gay and need to be singled out via a purple light








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IlIkeJuice*
> 
> Called it.


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## aLv1080

Finally!

Now I just need to find a store that ships to my country and that won't charge me 130usd for it...
But yeah, I'll definitely be buying it. 87g is soooo good.


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## oxidized

I'll just wait for Ino to review it


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## Dreyka

Quote:


> The idea of the EC Series carrying the AVAGO 3310 (EC1-A & EC2-A) was developed and tested in early September, 2014. It was my decision not to launch this new series.


Why would they bother to update the FK and not bother to update the EC series. Zowie is just weird. Seriously, why would they put in a light up scroll wheel when people hate leds. Just stick a button on the bottom of the mouse like the FK series.

The black and white looks quite nice.


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## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> Why would they bother to update the FK and not bother to update the EC series. Zowie is just weird. Seriously, why would they put in a light up scroll wheel when people hate leds. Just stick a button on the bottom of the mouse like the FK series.
> 
> The black and white looks quite nice.


i don't hate LEDs, the opposite, also i don't really think putting a led it would be or cause any problem


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## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> I'll just wait for Ino to review it


I'll probably to it, but I don't expect them to have changed anything in terms of performance compared to the FK1.


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## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I'll probably to it, but I don't expect them to have changed anything in terms of performance compared to the FK1.


Great, well of course not, but the mouse isn't only about the sensor right?


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## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> Great, well of course not, but the mouse isn't only about the sensor right?


Yeah, sure







It's just the same shape just with the FK1 sensor. I'll treat it like a new mouse though. Already pre-ordered on Caseking.de.


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## MadGear

Is it true that the EC shell makes the huano switches easier to actuate? I have tried the original FK before but I could not get used to the way the buttons felt when playing Dota 2, however they didn't bother me as much when playing other games. If they are somewhat easier to actuate in that shell then I might actually consider getting one of these mice.


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## Razor 116

Bought one from OCUK, Been waiting for this ever since my EVO CL failed (Fast flicks would cause the mouse to point me at the sky/ground etc.) and the second one I bought had the same issue with tracking during fast flicks. FK1 has served me well in the interim.


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## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MadGear*
> 
> Is it true that the EC shell makes the huano switches easier to actuate? I have tried the original FK before but I could not get used to the way the buttons felt when playing Dota 2, however they didn't bother me as much when playing other games. If they are somewhat easier to actuate in that shell then I might actually consider getting one of these mice.


Yes its true.

I own both FK1 and EC1 eVo CL.


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## boogdud

EC2 with an 800 and 1600 dpi setting. I thought I heard angels sing.

My favorite shape ever and now with steps that I prefer. I'll probably order 3-4.

edit:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Going to get the EC2 version this time around, looks like the perfect size


Ino, knowing your tastes, being near 1:1 with mine, I'm pretty certain you will love the shape of the EC2.


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## trriL

Looks good, but that logo looks off, although it probably looks better in a normal picture/IRL. Is the shell the same as the previous version? Is there going to be a special or glossy edition? Refreshed CL edition maybe?


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## oxidized

to be honest i prefer the new logo over the old one, it just has more sense and i never liked the old logo


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## Ihateallmice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1onewolf*
> 
> Nice, but will the scroll wheel actually work?
> 
> Oh hey new logo also
> Good stuff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't wait for another round of
> + Flaking coating
> + Button lag/click delay
> + Skipping Scroll wheel notches
> to start 2015 off!
> 
> OR are they going to introduce new QC defects?
> I can't wait!
> Whoo!
> Keep up the good work Zowie!


don't get why anyone would be excited over this announcement when this is so accurate. it will definitely have at least 2 out of 3 of these problems, possibly some new ones as well. please don't run and pre-order this garbage and instead let them fix this stuff.


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## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> don't get why anyone would be excited over this announcement when this is so accurate. it will definitely have at least 2 out of 3 of these problems, possibly some new ones as well. please don't run and pre-order this garbage and instead let them fix this stuff.


I reckon your nickname is very appropriate


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## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: oxidized



Originally Posted by *oxidized* 

i don't hate LEDs, the opposite, also i don't really think putting a led it would be or cause any problem



I dislike LEDs that can't be turned off. It's just plain bad for Zowie to use an LED in a scroll wheel when many people don't like it and there is no way to turn it off. The FK approach to changing CPI was the better than the Mico approach.


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## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> I dislike LEDs that can't be turned off. It's just plain bad for Zowie to use an LED in a scroll wheel when many people don't like it and there is no way to turn it off. The FK approach to changing CPI was the better than the Mico approach.


Agreed.

Also these
Quote:


> + Button lag/click delay
> + Skipping Scroll wheel notches


will happen too, because they probably won't change either PCB nor the mold for the shell, those would mean investments. As they won't do that, they also won't change the indicator LED to the bottom.


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## trriL

Does anyone think I could put an EC1-A PCB in a EC1 eVo CL shell with no problems?


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## AnimalK

You can't expect to have no software and be able to turn off LEDs. They can put a switch for it but you can't expect a mouse to be solidly built at a reasonable price with 10 buttons on it.

Not liking a lit up scroll wheel is a fair opinion though. I personally like the way it looks though I have yet to try any EC mouse ever. I do very much like what they did for the FK1 on this respect.


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## oxidized

_"I dislike LEDs that can't be turned off"_

LOL

also this click latency everyone is talking about is anything relevant and is it Zowie exclusive? tbh i don't think so


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## shatterboxd3

I can't believe that I'm actually this excited. I had an EC1 and I loved the shape. But I don't know if I want to go with EC2 this round, since I'm liking my FK1's size and weight now. I notice that the EC2-A is quite a bit shorter than the FK1 lengthwise, but with how much taller the EC2 is I think it'll fill out my hand nicely. I'll be preordering the EC2-A as soon as I can.

Can't wait!


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## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> _"I dislike LEDs that can't be turned off"_
> 
> LOL
> 
> also this click latency everyone is talking about is anything relevant and is it Zowie exclusive? tbh i don't think so


no and its hardly noticeable to 99.9% of the people that use the mouse also.
i have 3 zowie mice including an ec2 evo cL and i never noticed the delay, apparently only elite FPS gamers can notice it (im just a lowly RTS scrub).

and for people crying about the coating issues they had in the past, it was officially addressed by zowie and fixed (the announcement was on their website and still is i think). my ec2 evo cL had the coating issue (and it didnt happen until after 3 months of constant use), my vanilla FK and FK1 did not. it didn't effect my grip or play anyway, so whatever. some people on these mouse forums are such doomsday advocates.

apparently there is a scroll wheel issue too, which none of my zowie mice have. i love their scroll wheels. but you know, if one person had it then you know, the whole line of zowie products must be defective.


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## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> _"I dislike LEDs that can't be turned off"_
> 
> LOL
> 
> also this click latency everyone is talking about is anything relevant and is it Zowie exclusive? tbh i don't think so
> 
> 
> 
> no and its hardly noticeable to 99.9% of the people that use the mouse also.
> i have 3 zowie mice including an ec2 evo cL and i never noticed the delay, apparently only elite FPS gamers can notice it (im just a lowly RTS scrub).
> 
> and for people crying about the coating issues they had in the past, it was officially addressed by zowie and fixed (the announcement was on their website and still is i think). my ec2 evo cL had the coating issue (and it didnt happen until after 3 months of constant use), my vanilla FK and FK1 did not. it didn't effect my grip or play anyway, so whatever. some people on these mouse forums are such doomsday advocates.
> 
> apparently there is a scroll wheel issue too, which none of my zowie mice have. i love their scroll wheels. but you know, if one person had it then you know, the whole line of zowie products must be defective.
Click to expand...

The click lag is super noticeable if you swtich from a low click latency mouse to a Zowie mouse.


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## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> no and its hardly noticeable to 99.9% of the people that use the mouse also.
> i have 3 zowie mice including an ec2 evo cL and i never noticed the delay, apparently only elite FPS gamers can notice it (im just a lowly RTS scrub).




Going from a Logitech mouse to a diff brand is completely noticeable. If we constantly have this attitude where we act ignorant to the problem it's never gonna get fixed. Zowie needs to start living up to their expectations. I used to LOVE Zowie and I would LOVE to own a new EC2-A if I knew they were doing something about click latency.

"ZOWIE GEAR is an innovative manufacturer of competitive gaming gear, founded late 2008 with a mission to develop the *best competitive gaming gear available.*"


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## detto87

FK1 coating. Not sure how to feel about that.

The coating is nice for the first few months but then it gets greasy and oily. It feels a bit disgusting to put my hand on the FK1 now. Maybe I can clean it thoroughly?

Also interested about the wheel. My FK1 has a scrolling bug which caused me not only once a clutch situation. Therefore no use anymore for it in game (unbounded it).


----------



## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> no and its hardly noticeable to 99.9% of the people that use the mouse also.
> i have 3 zowie mice including an ec2 evo cL and i never noticed the delay, apparently only elite FPS gamers can notice it (im just a lowly RTS scrub).
> 
> and for people crying about the coating issues they had in the past, it was officially addressed by zowie and fixed (the announcement was on their website and still is i think). my ec2 evo cL had the coating issue (and it didnt happen until after 3 months of constant use), my vanilla FK and FK1 did not. it didn't effect my grip or play anyway, so whatever. some people on these mouse forums are such doomsday advocates.
> 
> apparently there is a scroll wheel issue too, which none of my zowie mice have. i love their scroll wheels. but you know, if one person had it then you know, the whole line of zowie products must be defective.


well i play TF2 competitively at pretty high level, and if anyone of you played TF2 before surely knows that it's hell of a benchmark for a mouse, also my mainclass is scout, so...

anyway i've been using the EC2 eVo for months now, and besides the low LOD (coming from a G500s, it was pretty noticeable) the mouse works perfectly, ofc it has some flaws like, the noisy scroll wheel and the pretty stiff Central mouse button, but tbh its another story from my old g500s


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## blackmesatech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MadGear*
> 
> Is it true that the EC shell makes the huano switches easier to actuate? I have tried the original FK before but I could not get used to the way the buttons felt when playing Dota 2, however they didn't bother me as much when playing other games. If they are somewhat easier to actuate in that shell then I might actually consider getting one of these mice.


It's true for the EC1 but not so much for the EC2 because the shell is smaller. However the EC2 is easier to actuate than the FK1.


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> FK1 coating. Not sure how to feel about that.
> 
> The coating is nice for the first few months but then it gets greasy and oily. It feels a bit disgusting to put my hand on the FK1 now. Maybe I can clean it thoroughly?
> 
> Also interested about the wheel. My FK1 has a scrolling bug which caused me not only once a clutch situation. Therefore no use anymore for it in game (unbounded it).


I've been wondering how to clean the mouse myself. The coating doesn't chip away or anything it's just the oil is stuck on top lol. Maybe some alcohol pads would make the coating look like new. Don't want to try that though.


----------



## shatterboxd3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> FK1 coating. Not sure how to feel about that.
> 
> The coating is nice for the first few months but then it gets greasy and oily. It feels a bit disgusting to put my hand on the FK1 now. Maybe I can clean it thoroughly?
> 
> Also interested about the wheel. My FK1 has a scrolling bug which caused me not only once a clutch situation. Therefore no use anymore for it in game (unbounded it).


Do you eat at your computer often or not wash your hands frequently? My FK1 is still clean and has no buildup of dirt or grime on it.

The wheel will likely be the exact same as the evo CL series, since it seems Zowie is only changing the coating and sensor.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> well i play TF2 competitively at pretty high level, and if anyone of you played TF2 before surely knows that it's hell of a benchmark for a mouse, also my mainclass is scout, so...
> 
> anyway i've been using the EC2 eVo for months now, and besides the low LOD (coming from a G500s, it was pretty noticeable) the mouse works perfectly, ofc it has some flaws like, the noisy scroll wheel and the pretty stiff Central mouse button, but tbh its another story from my old g500s


TF2 is not that dependent on click latency though, just like Quake. I think main AWPers in CS might be the ones most affected by it. It's much less of a problem for games with more movement.

I had no trouble ever with any Zowie and its clicks, but then I mainly played TF2/Quake/Battlefield.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> 
> 
> Going from a Logitech mouse to a diff brand is completely noticeable. If we constantly have this attitude where we act ignorant to the problem it's never gonna get fixed. Zowie needs to start living up to their expectations. I used to LOVE Zowie and I would LOVE to own a new EC2-A if I knew they were doing something about click latency.


I use a G302 and been using my ec2 evo CL, I notice no difference.

I understand that its a fact that it has a 15ms click delay and there should be close to none. but its the _fact_ that its a 15*ms* click delay that i don't notice it (along with many other folks). its 15ms, not 150ms.

i've never seen anyone come on here and complain about that 20ms click delay on kinzu v2 either.


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shatterboxd3*
> 
> Do you eat at your computer often or not wash your hands frequently? My FK1 is still clean and has no buildup of dirt or grime on it.
> 
> The wheel will likely be the exact same as the evo CL series, since it seems Zowie is only changing the coating and sensor.


Some people get sweaty hands while playing. I can have my hands so dry then once I get a few minutes in hands are sweating especially in a game like Quakelive. But that actually helps the grip even more. Problem is after a month or two you can still see the sweat and oil. Makes the mouse look shiny and glossy almost.


----------



## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> TF2 is not that dependent on click latency though, just like Quake. I think main AWPers in CS might be the ones most affected by it. It's much less of a problem for games with more movement.
> 
> I had no trouble ever with any Zowie and its clicks, but then I mainly played TF2/Quake/Battlefield.


i don't really know, i play csgo too, not like frequently but well, besides the game's numerous flaws, i didn't notice any other weird things coming from the g500s


----------



## zeflow

The EC2 width is 40mm, and the EC2-A width is 60mm? That seems like a big change; is this accurate? Or am I reading the orginal EC dimensions wrong.


----------



## Johan450

Does it use the blue huano switches?
It give me hope that I'll see a revamp of the mico before the year ends


----------



## Ahnnn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> FK1 coating. Not sure how to feel about that.
> 
> The coating is nice for the first few months but then it gets greasy and oily. It feels a bit disgusting to put my hand on the FK1 now. Maybe I can clean it thoroughly?
> 
> Also interested about the wheel. My FK1 has a scrolling bug which caused me not only once a clutch situation. Therefore no use anymore for it in game (unbounded it).


I clean my FK1 with damp tissue every 3-4 days , or whenever it gets too oily that I dont feel comfortable using it , or just wiping it with dry tissue whenever I'm lazy and it feels oily after a few hours. Definitely seemed to be one of those mice that you need to clean often.


----------



## Crizzl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> i don't really know, i play csgo too, not like frequently but well, besides the game's numerous flaws, i didn't notice any other weird things coming from the g500s


I've played my fair share of TF2 as well and for some reason it's not as noticeable as it is in games like counter-strike.


----------



## shatterboxd3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> TF2 is not that dependent on click latency though, just like Quake. I think main AWPers in CS might be the ones most affected by it. It's much less of a problem for games with more movement.
> 
> I had no trouble ever with any Zowie and its clicks, but then I mainly played TF2/Quake/Battlefield.


It's 100% noticeable for me in CS GO. I used to be a main AWPer since the days of the MX510, and even today using the mx510, or even the Rival I hit fast flicks better than with the FK1. That said, I'll still be using the FK1 until I get my hands on the EC2-A, and have since started to try to adjust to using rifles.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> The EC2 width is 40mm, and the EC2-A width is 60mm? That seems like a big change; is this accurate? Or am I reading the orginal EC dimensions wrong.


http://www.zowiegear.com/pr_image/ECAcom_002.jpg

It's 64/61 mm wide for the EC1-A/EC2 -A

The measurements of the EC1 EC2 on the site are mixing up height and width.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: AnimalK



Originally Posted by *AnimalK* 

You can't expect to have no software and be able to turn off LEDs. They can put a switch for it but you can't expect a mouse to be solidly built at a reasonable price with 10 buttons on it.

Not liking a lit up scroll wheel is a fair opinion though. I personally like the way it looks though I have yet to try any EC mouse ever. I do very much like what they did for the FK1 on this respect.





Spoiler: Quote: oxidized



Originally Posted by *oxidized* 

"I dislike LEDs that can't be turned off"

LOL

also this click latency everyone is talking about is anything relevant and is it Zowie exclusive? tbh i don't think so



I expect Zowie not to be lazy cheapskates at the price they charge. It seems they either don't understand what people want from their mice or don't care. It's pretty obvious that people here in general don't like LEDs and Zowie should have moved the CPI changer to the bottom of the mouse (like the FK) rather than stick a LED in the SCROLL WHEEL where it will always be seen. Considering they make so little changes between versions and don't even have to worry about building and maintaining software it's just ridiculous. It's just not defensible.



Spoiler: Quote: JustinSane



Originally Posted by *JustinSane* 



Going from a Logitech mouse to a diff brand is completely noticeable. If we constantly have this attitude where we act ignorant to the problem it's never gonna get fixed. Zowie needs to start living up to their expectations. I used to LOVE Zowie and I would LOVE to own a new EC2-A if I knew they were doing something about click latency.

"ZOWIE GEAR is an innovative manufacturer of competitive gaming gear, founded late 2008 with a mission to develop the *best competitive gaming gear available.*"



Zowie's marketing is just as much BS as everyone else. False compromises on software, not allowing full sensor functionality and high click latency. They had an opportunity to move the LED out of the scroll wheel but they didn't. It really shows that many of the people here are as gullible as the average consumer and it's just sad. Fanboyism hurts everyone and people should pressure Zowie to do better rather than defend what can't be defended.



Spoiler: Quote: discoprince



Quote:
Originally Posted by *discoprince* 

I use a G302 and been using my ec2 evo CL, I notice no difference.

I understand that its a fact that it has a 15ms click delay and there should be close to none. but its the fact that its a 15*ms* click delay that i don't notice it (along with many other folks). its 15ms, not 150ms.

i've never seen anyone come on here and complain about that 20ms click delay on kinzu v2 either.



High click latency is objectively bad. It doesn't matter if you don't notice the difference because the fact is that there 15ms more delay than a G300 and that will have an effect on when the game registers you've clicked. If Zowie was about competitive gaming (they really aren't anymore than everyone else) then they'd be working to reduce that latency as much as possible. They aren't because they don't care.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> High click latency is objectively bad. It doesn't matter if you don't notice the difference because the fact is that there 15ms more delay than a G300 and that will have an effect on when the game registers you've clicked. If Zowie was about competitive gaming (they really aren't anymore than everyone else) then they'd be working to reduce that latency as much as possible. They aren't because they don't care.


yeah, i agree, its just the fact that alot of people don't notice it and a small amount of nerds on here do. that's probably why they don't care. i believe it should be fixed though if they are at all serious about what they do.

but im playing cs go right now with my ec2 evo cL, im hardly missing headshots and im trying really hard to notice this 15ms delay. i friggin love this shape.

all im saying is, a 15ms click delay shouldn't bring the average person looking into this mouse a pause as to why they should/shouldn't buy it. its a great product besides this minor defect.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: discoprince



Originally Posted by *discoprince* 


> yeah, i agree, its just the fact that alot of people don't notice it and a small amount of nerds on here do. that's probably why they don't care. i believe it should be fixed though if they are at all serious about what they do.
> 
> but im playing cs go right now with my ec2 evo cL, im hardly missing headshots and im trying really hard to notice this 15ms delay. i friggin love this shape.








> Zowie says they are about *competitive gaming*. It should matter to them by definition because by definition competitive gaming is about maximising performance.
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> ZOWIE GEAR is an innovative manufacturer of competitive gaming gear, founded late 2008 with a mission to develop the best competitive gaming gear available.
> 
> We are not limited by shareholders telling us what we can or cannot do. We are a free-minded company consisting of experienced and creative individuals, united in ZOWIE on a common ground; our passion for gaming. No boundaries. No compromises. Just gaming.
Click to expand...

They fail at doing what they say they do. It's all just marketing BS.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> Zowie says they are about *competitive gaming*. It should matter to them by definition because by definition competitive gaming is about maximising performance.


yeah i mean, are you not reading what im writing?

yeah but they arent failing at what they do.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> apparently there is a scroll wheel issue too, which none of my zowie mice have. i love their scroll wheels. but you know, if one person had it then you know, the whole line of zowie products must be defective.


A number of people just on this board have had issues with the scrollwheel on the FK1. Unless you're saying we're all lying.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> A number of people just on this board have had issues with the scrollwheel on the FK1. Unless you're saying we're all lying.


yeah and a number of people on here havent had issues either, probably more so, so we must be liars too.









please.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: discoprince



Originally Posted by *discoprince* 

yeah i mean, are you not reading what im writing?

yeah but they arent failing at what they do.



I clearly explained how they were failing.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> I clearly explained how they were failing.


man a 15ms click delay is not failing when the majority of the people who purchase the products don't notice the defect.

i said they should fix the issue (like 3 times now), is that not enough to calm you down or are you going to keep on with this relentless moral droning about how a 15ms click delay is ruining an entire company?


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> yeah and a number of people on here havent had issues either, probably more so, so we must be liars too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> please.


Nobody has said literally every mouse is defective, but you're sitting there honestly trying to say there isn't any problem and it's "just one person" and everyone else is jumping on the bandwagon for no reason. It may not be the biggest problem ever, but it is one and should be addressed.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Nobody has said literally every mouse is defective, but you're sitting there honestly trying to say there isn't any problem and it's "just one person" and everyone else is jumping on the bandwagon for no reason. It may not be the biggest problem ever, but it is one and should be addressed.


no, its the people who have the issues with the mice that claim they are all defective and that no one else can possibly have a working product.
"THE COATING
THE SCROLL WHEEL
THE CLICK DELAY
THIS WAS ALL BROKEN ON MY MOUSE ZOWIE NEEDS TO GET THEIR CRAP TOGETHER" <--- this is the crap that gets through. all the helpful useful things about the mouse slip through the cracks and anyone who has a working product is a "newb" because they can't notice the minor defects.
my ec2 evo cl had the coating split on the back near the logo, you don't see me on here bad mouthing the crap out of zowie because of it.

you got it backwards kid.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: discoprince



Originally Posted by *discoprince* 

man a 15ms click delay is not failing when the majority of the people who purchase the products don't notice the defect.

i said they should fix the issue (like 3 times now), is that not enough to calm you down or are you going to keep on with this relentless moral droning about how a 15ms click delay is ruining an entire company?



As I explicitly said. If they care about competitive gaming they should be looking to maximise performance which means reducing click latency which they aren't doing. It's a failing by definition.



Spoiler: Quote: a_ak57



Originally Posted by *a_ak57* 

Nobody has said literally every mouse is defective, but you're sitting there honestly trying to say there isn't any problem and it's "just one person" and everyone else is jumping on the bandwagon for no reason. It may not be the biggest problem ever, but it is one and should be addressed.



Nobody can give a percentage number of units that had the problem but it was higher than usual considering the numbers of people complaining.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> no, its the people who have the issues with the mice that claim they are all defective and that no one else can possibly have a working product.
> my ec2 evo cl had the coating split on the back near the logo, you don't see me on here bad mouthing the crap out of zowie because of it.
> 
> you got it backwards kid.


Stop attacking a group of people you've made up. Nobody claims every mouse is broken and zowie is the worst company ever, there are simply some of us who have mentioned having the scrollwheel issue and that it's something that should be addressed. There isn't a conspiracy.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Stop attacking a group of people you've made up. Nobody claims every mouse is broken and zowie is the worst company ever, there are simply some of us who have mentioned having the scrollwheel issue and that it's something that should be addressed. There isn't a conspiracy.


yeah ok, i'm making this up.
read this thread.


----------



## MLJS54

I love knowing that every dollar I give to Zowie will me Dreyka's rage a little stronger.


----------



## Forma

not buying another zowie until they announce fixes for button lag and refresh the models.


----------



## Aventadoor

maxfps.no/se have gotten these on the page now, but seems like they wont get in-stock before early next month...


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: MLJS54



Originally Posted by *MLJS54* 


> I love knowing that every dollar I give to Zowie will me Dreyka's rage a little stronger.






As much as some people seem to think otherwise I don't actually hate Zowie. All of my criticisms of Zowie are based upon reason rather than blind brand hatred. Their shapes are generally good and their mice feel solid while also being light. However, Zowie's softwareless approach is the worst thing to happen to the gaming mice industry since the A9800 sensor. We're at a time where the "optical" sensors such as the PMW-3310 (used in FK1/2, EC1-A/2-A )have adjustable CPI in 50cpi increments, an adjustable lift off distance and yet Zowie isn't taking advantage of this functionality because of a false compromise. The "driverless" experience of changeable CPI (400/800/1600), changeable polling rate and even adjustable LOD in crude increments is possible whilst also providing software for those who want full functionality. Fundamentally, competitive gaming is about providing the best performance and that means taking full advantage of sensor functionality which is what Zowie is not doing. I want better mice and not mice that cater to Zowie's marketing gimmicks. The world doesn't revolve around FPS gaming and changeable CPI in small increments is important for the RTS and MOBA genres because there is no sensitivity slider.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> yeah ok, i'm making this up.
> read this thread.


I see one person who put it in a list of complaints then some others wondering if the scrollwheel issue will be fixed.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> TF2 is not that dependent on click latency though, just like Quake. I think main AWPers in CS might be the ones most affected by it. It's much less of a problem for games with more movement.
> 
> I had no trouble ever with any Zowie and its clicks, but then I mainly played TF2/Quake/Battlefield.


Tell that k1llsen. 

While it is not a complete Deal Breaker, it definitely has an impact on my performance when it comes to tap firing and railing, it wouldnt be too much of a problem if their designs wouldnt have so much pretravel, on my ec1 evo the LMB practically hangs in the air, old EC1 with Omrons didnt for some reasons, rationally EC1 eVo is just a Deathadder with no improvements.

Edit:

Also Zowie itself imo missed their chances to get big the last 5 years, their concept was good back in 2010/2011, but not getting into the mainstream market conflicts with making "1%" Gear. And i really dont know how anyone at Zowie can rationalise their product linup.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> TF2 is not that dependent on click latency though, just like Quake. I think main AWPers in CS might be the ones most affected by it. It's much less of a problem for games with more movement.
> 
> I had no trouble ever with any Zowie and its clicks, but then I mainly played TF2/Quake/Battlefield.


as a amby spy / sniper player, I beg to differ








..







though I can't say it affected me a lot, it was more likely the stiff clicks of the FK that were annoying me.


----------



## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizzl*
> 
> I've played my fair share of TF2 as well and for some reason it's not as noticeable as it is in games like counter-strike.


Well ye, probably on cs is more noticeable than tf2 for example, also Yo Crizzl








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> I expect Zowie not to be lazy cheapskates at the price they charge. It seems they either don't understand what people want from their mice or don't care. It's pretty obvious that people here in general don't like LEDs and Zowie should have moved the CPI changer to the bottom of the mouse (like the FK) rather than stick a LED in the SCROLL WHEEL where it will always be seen. Considering they make so little changes between versions and don't even have to worry about building and maintaining software it's just ridiculous. It's just not defensible.


Why i just wonder why, what's wrong with LEDs, it's not even razer style with leds everywhere, it's just a led, and it's not just a useless led


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: oxidized



Quote:
Originally Posted by *oxidized* 

Well ye, probably on cs is more noticeable than tf2 for example, also Yo Crizzl








Why i just wonder why, what's wrong with LEDs, it's not even razer style with leds everywhere, it's just a led, and it's not just a useless led



Because, I don't like LEDs in my vision when playing the dark. With Razer and everyone else I can turn them off but with the Zowie Mico, EC1/2 you can't. It's a big deal when you can't release a basic mouse without LEDs that can be turned off when many of the people here who buy your mice don't like LEDs at all. It screams "we don't care" and Zowie don't seem to care. They have no presence here and all feedback seems to fall on deaf ears which is ridiculous when you're a niche business. They're so out of touch they put their logo in the center of a mousepad.


----------



## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> Because, I don't like LEDs in my vision when playing the dark. With Razer and everyone else I can turn them off but with the Zowie Mico, EC1/2 you can't. It's a big deal when you can't release a basic mouse without LEDs that can be turned off when many of the people here who buy your mice don't like LEDs at all. It screams "we don't care" and Zowie don't seem to care. They have no presence here and all feedback seems to fall on deaf ears which is ridiculous when you're a niche business. They're so out of touch they put their logo in the center of a mousepad.


also are you 100% sure that drawings on the mousepads can cause problems at the sensor? this far using the ec2 evo on a goliathus, i've encountered 0 problems


----------



## shatterboxd3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> also are you 100% sure that drawings on the mousepads can cause problems at the sensor? this far using the ec2 evo on a goliathus, i've encountered 0 problems


Goliathus doesn't have a bright white logo in the middle of it though









That mousepad design is dumbfounding. Even if they tested all of their 3310 mice to work on it perfectly, that limits who will buy this pad because I guarantee that little white logo is going to cause malfunctions on other mice.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: oxidized



Quote:
Originally Posted by *oxidized* 

also are you 100% sure that drawings on the mousepads can cause problems at the sensor? this far using the ec2 evo on a goliathus, i've encountered 0 problems



It could cause problems and many here simply don't like moving over the logo. People here also generally prefer minimalist designs without logos in prominent places. After all, there are enthusiasts here who rotate their mousepad so that the logo is upside down and at the top so they don't mouse over it.

It's not hard to stick the logo in the corner like everyone else does. It really does baffle the mind how they could make such simple mistakes.


----------



## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shatterboxd3*
> 
> Goliathus doesn't have a bright white logo in the middle of it though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That mousepad design is dumbfounding. *Even if they tested all of their 3310 mice to work on it perfectly, that limits who will buy this pad because I guarantee that little white logo is going to cause malfunctions on other mice*.


Are you fking kidding me?









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> It could cause problems and many here simply don't like moving over the logo. People here also generally prefer minimalist designs without logos in prominent places. After all, there are enthusiasts here who rotate their mousepad so that the logo is upside down and at the top so they don't mouse over it.
> 
> It's not hard to stick the logo in the corner like everyone else does. It really does baffle the mind how they could make such simple mistakes.


If all the people or most of it like minimalist designs then, i assume pretty much nobodys gonna buy it, they'll notice they're fail and eventually address it, but until then...


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forma*
> 
> not buying another zowie until they announce fixes for button lag and refresh the models.


Listen up Zowie.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> Tell that k1llsen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While it is not a complete Deal Breaker, it definitely has an impact on my performance when it comes to tap firing and railing, it wouldnt be too much of a problem if their designs wouldnt have so much pretravel, on my ec1 evo the LMB practically hangs in the air, old EC1 with Omrons didnt for some reasons, rationally EC1 eVo is just a Deathadder with no improvements.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Also Zowie itself imo missed their chances to get big the last 5 years, their concept was good back in 2010/2011, but not getting into the mainstream market conflicts with making "1%" Gear. And i really dont know how anyone at Zowie can rationalise their product linup.


Agreed on all points. It might be a big deal to some, I meant it is not for me. But my reaction time isn't the best anyway I guess (I get around 190-200 ms in Humanbenchmark...)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forma*
> 
> not buying another zowie until they announce fixes for button lag and refresh the models.


What exactly do you mean by "refreshing the models"? Because their general shape is quite perfect, why do something new? If you referred to fixing the flaws in their old ones, like the mousewheel, then I do agree wholeheartedly.


----------



## scardd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> Because, I don't like LEDs in my vision when playing the dark.


honestly unless you look straight at your mouse you can't notice the LED at the mousewheel at all (not even when its dark).

MIght be just me tho since i never look at my KB or mouse ever ^^, but even looking at the mouse the LED is blocked by my fingers.


----------



## dmbr

I switched from the evo ec2 CL for the KPM, and I don't think this will win me back.

The lower weight is nice (5g lower than the KPM), but Zowie always seems to have problems that are never resolved due to no firmware updates.

I know their other models have issues with high button latency, for instance.

The KPM shipped with a few issues (polling rate variation, button latency too high), but Roccat listened to the community and promptly fixed them.

And I have to say, I now really appreciate having a driver suite.


----------



## shatterboxd3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> I switched from the evo ec2 CL for the KPM, and I don't think this will win me back.
> 
> The lower weight is nice (5g lower than the KPM), but Zowie always seems to have problems that are never resolved due to no firmware updates.
> 
> I know their other models have issues with high button latency, for instance.
> 
> The KPM shipped with a few issues (polling rate variation, button latency too high), but Roccat listened to the community and promptly fixed them.
> 
> And I have to say, I now really appreciate having a driver suite.


This is a problem for Zowie. I get that they want to be "professional grade" and "simple" but what's to say that they can't include some easy software to make changes to the device? It's not like they can't keep their style as a minimalistic looking device in a sea of Optimus Prime looking mice and still have functional software that isn't intrusive.

Example: Zowie software, doesn't run anything in the background, or while the mouse is plugged in. Only runs manually when user wants to do an update.

Run software, select DPI, Polling Rate, Lift off Distance, turn off LED indicator. Apply changes to mouse. Software closes and is no longer running. I mean they already have onboard memory to remember the settings of the mouse.


----------



## the1onewolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shatterboxd3*
> 
> This is a problem for Zowie. I get that they want to be "professional grade" and "simple" but what's to say that they can't include some easy software to make changes to the device? It's not like they can't keep their style as a minimalistic looking device in a sea of Optimus Prime looking mice and still have functional software that isn't intrusive.
> 
> Example: Zowie software, doesn't run anything in the background, or while the mouse is plugged in. Only runs manually when user wants to do an update.
> 
> Run software, select DPI, Polling Rate, Lift off Distance, turn off LED indicator. Apply changes to mouse. Software closes and is no longer running. I mean they already have onboard memory to remember the settings of the mouse.


Just speculation but they're a small company and I think they would likely botch the firmware. They'd probably need to hire more software people also. Even larger companies had tons of issues with their software when they first came out and many still do currently.That and Zowie still has a bit of a 2011-ish mentality.


----------



## bobsaget

The driverless aspect of Zowie's mice is one of the major reasons why I use their products. I like to have the minimum of background tasks running on my pc, and it's a differentiating factor from the rest of the competition. If they decided to develop a software, they would inevitably have to keep pace with the competitors' software, and that would be a difficult task.

As for the latency issue, I play csgo at high level and the latency never was a problem for me. I can't feel it. I don't say it does not exist, but I don't think this delay is high enough to really interfere with online competitive game experience.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: the1onewolf



Originally Posted by *the1onewolf* 

Just speculation but they're a small company and I think they would likely botch the firmware. They'd probably need to hire more software people also. Even larger companies had tons of issues with their software when they first came out and many still do currently.That and Zowie still has a bit of a 2011-ish mentality.



There are plenty of small companies that can do it. For example, Ninox who are much smaller than Zowie.



Spoiler: Quote: bogsaget



Originally Posted by *bobsaget* 

The driverless aspect of Zowie's mice is one of the major reasons why I use their products. I like to have the minimum of background tasks running on my pc, and it's a differentiating factor from the rest of the competition. If they decided to develop a software, they would inevitably have to keep pace of the competitors' software, and that would be a difficult task.



All mice are plug and play. Software is always optional. The approach of being able to change polling rate and LOD (crudely) through button combinations on plug in is a good idea that others should do as well. That experience can be kept intact while also providing optional software for those who want to use full sensor functionality such as adjusting CPI in 50cpi increments and fine tuning the LOD. The PMW-3310 sensor used in the FK1/2/EC1-A/EC2-A has that functionality but it's locked out by Zowie. How can you call yourself a brand that cares about competitive gaming while locking away useful functionality. Being able to change CPI in small increments is really important for the RTS and MOBA genre where you don't have a sensitivity slider unlike FPS games that do.

You don't have to create software that is capable of keyboard macros etc either. That can all be done through other software such as Autohotkey but changing the CPI and LOD is not possible without Zowie creating a tool that allows it.


----------



## pgabor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> I clearly explained how they were failing.


Yeah, they are so failing at it, that almost every professional CS:GO player who has no accessory sponsorship uses Zowie. Just check out the pictures from DHW 2014.

I'm the main AWPer of my team (currently ranked SMFC) and I'm using the FK1 (used mainly 1.1 ime and wmo before), and yes maybe every week I miss a duel because of the delay, but connect 5 more shots because of the shape or the fact that I can flick precisely and as fast as I can (and at 60cm/360° that's a must). Would I be happy if they reduce it? Of course, I'd hit few more shots every week. But it's definitely not a deal breaker.

I would also like to point out, that the world's currently best AWPer in CS:GO (KennyS) uses a Deathadder 2013, which is no Logitech either in the latency department, still he can make it work. Although i don't have any statistics, but I'm pretty sure if people would use the amount of time they argue about click latency on various forums for actually practicing the game they play, that would improve their game more than switching to a mouse with lower latency









Is lower latency great? YES! Definitely!
Is 10-15ms higher latency a deal breaker? Not even close.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: pgabor



Originally Posted by *pgabor* 

Yeah, they are so failing at it, that almost every professional CS:GO player who has no accessory sponsorship uses Zowie. Just check out the pictures from DHW 2014.

I'm the main AWPer of my team (currently ranked SMFC) and I'm using the FK1 (used mainly 1.1 ime and wmo before), and yes maybe every week I miss a duel because of the delay, but connect 5 more shots because of the shape or the fact that I can flick precisely and as fast as I can (and at 60cm/360° that's a must). Would I be happy if they reduce it? Of course, I'd hit few more shots every week. But it's definitely not a deal breaker.

I would also like to point out, that the world's currently best AWPer in CS:GO (KennyS) uses a Deathadder 2013, which is no Logitech either in the latency department, still he can make it work. Although i don't have any statistics, but I'm pretty sure if people would use the amount of time they argue about click latency on various forums for actually practicing the game they play, that would improve their game more than switching to a mouse with lower latency









Is lower latency great? YES! Definitely!
Is 10-15ms higher latency a deal breaker? Not even close.



FPS players don't need to worry about CPI steps because they can adjust in game sensitivity. They'd be using Zowie mice if they released a tool to unlock full sensor functionality. There is no reason RTS and MOBA players should be arbitrarily excluded because Zowie won't release a tool that allows CPI to be changed in 50cpi increments. The strength of Zowie is their shapes and not the lack of software which is a false compromise.

The high latency is not something that should be defended. Constantly arguing otherwise just puts more incentives for Zowie to do nothing. It's not a dealbreaker but they should aim to reduce it.


----------



## pgabor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> FPS players don't need to worry about CPI steps because they can adjust in game sensitivity. They'd be using Zowie mice if they released a tool to unlock full sensor functionality. There is no reason RTS and MOBA players should be arbitrarily excluded because Zowie won't release a tool that allows CPI to be changed in 50cpi increments. The strength of Zowie is their shapes and not the lack of software which is a false compromise.
> 
> The high latency is not something that should be defended. Constantly arguing otherwise just puts more incentives for Zowie to do nothing. *It's not a dealbreaker but they should aim to reduce it.*


Great, we are on the same page then


----------



## shatterboxd3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget*
> 
> The driverless aspect of Zowie's mice is one of the major reasons why I use their products. I like to have the minimum of background tasks running on my pc, and it's a differentiating factor from the rest of the competition. If they decided to develop a software, they would inevitably have to keep pace with the competitors' software, and that would be a difficult task.
> 
> As for the latency issue, I play csgo at high level and the latency never was a problem for me. I can't feel it. I don't say it does not exist, but I don't think this delay is high enough to really interfere with online competitive game experience.


I also love that the Zowie's don't run any software in the background. But the idea that I was trying to put forth is that they should be able to make a software utility that doesn't run. It only runs the once when manually triggered to write the selected options to the mouse, much in the same way that pressing certain buttons on plugging in writes to the mouse.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> FPS players don't need to worry about CPI steps because they can adjust in game sensitivity. They'd be using Zowie mice if they released a tool to unlock full sensor functionality. There is no reason RTS and MOBA players should be arbitrarily excluded because Zowie won't release a tool that allows CPI to be changed in 50cpi increments. The strength of Zowie is their shapes and not the lack of software which is a false compromise.
> 
> The high latency is not something that should be defended. Constantly arguing otherwise just puts more incentives for Zowie to do nothing. It's not a dealbreaker but they should aim to reduce it.


I love my FK1 now after getting used to it. Even though I'm primarily an FPS player, I agree that not having the ability to unlock the DPI is ruling out a huge potential market in the MOBA genre that's so huge right now. 800 DPI isn't enough for me to play league, but 1600 is too much. Being able to customize it to the 50 DPI levels that the 3310 is capable of doing would open up a huge market for Zowie. It's not like in doing so they would have to have an intricate software or anything, they could just use the tried and true method of keep-it-simple-stupid.


----------



## Forma

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> What exactly do you mean by "refreshing the models"? Because their general shape is quite perfect, why do something new? If you referred to fixing the flaws in their old ones, like the mousewheel, then I do agree wholeheartedly.


I meant they need to fix the latency issue on the buttons, if only to remove this negative perception on literally all forums now when a Zowie mouse comes up. I'd really like to see this happen to restore my confidence. Kinda want to get a FK2, have done for a while, but will not until this is sorted.


----------



## slumpie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget*
> 
> The driverless aspect of Zowie's mice is one of the major reasons why I use their products. I like to have the minimum of background tasks running on my pc, and it's a differentiating factor from the rest of the competition.


Not a great reasoning, most competitors mice do not require any software to be installed and work just fine out of the box.
Especially mice with onboard memory are superior to this concept, because you basically combine customisability without having to deal with interfering software for the time you're actually using the mouse.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forma*
> 
> Kinda want to get a FK2, have done for a while, but will not until this is sorted.


If that's the case, waiting for someone to FIX a problem then about 90% of input devices wouldn't be bought today. I am willing to give them (Zowie) the benefit of doubt when it comes to acquiring another mouse off them.

Prefer that they release at least ONE model that has been fixed of these problems then refusing to purchase another product off them ever again in my life time. Suppose I'm the eternal optimist here on this forum







.


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> As much as some people seem to think otherwise I don't actually hate Zowie. All of my criticisms of Zowie are based upon reason rather than blind brand hatred. Their shapes are generally good and their mice feel solid while also being light. However, Zowie's softwareless approach is the worst thing to happen to the gaming mice industry since the A9800 sensor. We're at a time where the "optical" sensors such as the PMW-3310 (used in FK1/2, EC1-A/2-A )have adjustable CPI in 50cpi increments, an adjustable lift off distance and yet Zowie isn't taking advantage of this functionality because of a false compromise. The "driverless" experience of changeable CPI (400/800/1600), changeable polling rate and even adjustable LOD in crude increments is possible whilst also providing software for those who want full functionality. Fundamentally, competitive gaming is about providing the best performance and that means taking full advantage of sensor functionality which is what Zowie is not doing. I want better mice and not mice that cater to Zowie's marketing gimmicks. The world doesn't revolve around FPS gaming and changeable CPI in small increments is important for the RTS and MOBA genres because there is no sensitivity slider.


Stop being a wuss and use QLmousefilter


----------



## yinx

They don't seem to advertise them as claw grip mice. What style is it actually meant for?


----------



## cKwok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yinx*
> 
> They don't seem to advertise them as claw grip mice. What style is it actually meant for?


EC1-A for palm
EC2-A for palm with small hands
You could claw these mice too though.


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> I expect Zowie not to be lazy cheapskates at the price they charge. It seems they either don't understand what people want from their mice or don't care. It's pretty obvious that people here in general don't like LEDs and Zowie should have moved the CPI changer to the bottom of the mouse (like the FK) rather than stick a LED in the SCROLL WHEEL where it will always be seen. Considering they make so little changes between versions and don't even have to worry about building and maintaining software it's just ridiculous. It's just not defensible.
> 
> Zowie's marketing is just as much BS as everyone else. False compromises on software, not allowing full sensor functionality and high click latency. They had an opportunity to move the LED out of the scroll wheel but they didn't. It really shows that many of the people here are as gullible as the average consumer and it's just sad. Fanboyism hurts everyone and people should pressure Zowie to do better rather than defend what can't be defended.
> 
> High click latency is objectively bad. It doesn't matter if you don't notice the difference because the fact is that there 15ms more delay than a G300 and that will have an effect on when the game registers you've clicked. If Zowie was about competitive gaming (they really aren't anymore than everyone else) then they'd be working to reduce that latency as much as possible. They aren't because they don't care.


*LED Scroll Wheel
*Preference..... They fixed that with the FK series, and apparently don't see remaking an ec mold for leds lights on the bottom cost as.. cost effective.
*False Compromises
*Preference..... I don't want drivers, and neither did a bunch of competitve fps lan players back in the day. Sure software is better, but it allows you to draw a nice line between you and the competition. If you don't like it then just buy another brand.
*Objectively bad High Click Latency
*The only time latency is a problem is if the latency changes, or you have a perference. If you want faster go logitech, if if you want tactile but slighty delayed then the other mice are fine. The only time it is a problem is when the delay is undoubtably long. (Kinzu... it was like double my AM)
Logitech |-| Zowie
If you buy Logitech then you'll prefer those, if you buy razer you'll get use to those, or if you buy zowie you'll get use to those. It absolutely isn't the problem you make it out to be, and best of all if you prefer the fast clicks then you have an entire brand.. Logitech that you can buy. So but leave your neckbeard elitism at home.

PS- Best mouse of all time has delay








WMO
M
O

I just feel like there is plenty you can ask for in a mouse to get better, and revisions each year is a good thing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yinx*
> 
> They don't seem to advertise them as claw grip mice. What style is it actually meant for?


Totally palm grip, you can claw grip but it won't be as effective because the shell itself feels like it is fighting you very slightly. You'll want to stick with an FK1 if you prefer a wider mouse, or a FK2 for a more narrow. The reason why ambidextrous are so popular is because they allow for clean claw grips.


----------



## mndx

EC with lower click latency, omrons, adjustable led/lod/dpi via driver
... [email protected] deathadder


----------



## CookieBook

Just get a DA13 or Chroma


----------



## Aventadoor

But....
DA is annyoing for us with big hands/long fingers...
That upper right corner edge is where I need to hold my ring finger...
Else it wont swipe horizontally


----------



## Sencha

Plus it looks like batman had sex with a 3.0


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: Creizai



Originally Posted by *Creizai* 


> *LED Scroll Wheel*
> Preference..... They fixed that with the FK series, and apparently don't see remaking an ec mold for leds lights on the bottom cost as.. cost effective.
> *False Compromises*
> Preference..... I don't want drivers, and neither did a bunch of competitve fps lan players back in the day. Sure software is better, but it allows you to draw a nice line between you and the competition. If you don't like it then just buy another brand.
> *Objectively bad High Click Latency*
> The only time latency is a problem is if the latency changes, or you have a perference. If you want faster go logitech, if if you want tactile but slighty delayed then the other mice are fine. The only time it is a problem is when the delay is undoubtably long. (Kinzu... it was like double my AM)
> Logitech |-| Zowie
> If you buy Logitech then you'll prefer those, if you buy razer you'll get use to those, or if you buy zowie you'll get use to those. It absolutely isn't the problem you make it out to be, and best of all if you prefer the fast clicks then you have an entire brand.. Logitech that you can buy. So but leave your neckbeard elitism at home.
> 
> PS- Best mouse of all time has delay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WMO
> M
> O
> 
> I just feel like there is plenty you can ask for in a mouse to get better, and revisions each year is a good thing.
> Totally palm grip, you can claw grip but it won't be as effective because the shell itself feels like it is fighting you very slightly. You'll want to stick with an FK1 if you prefer a wider mouse, or a FK2 for a more narrow. The reason why ambidextrous are so popular is because they allow for clean claw grips.






As I said that Zowie were being lazy cheapskates by not putting a CPI changer button on the bottom of the mouse. Light up scroll wheels are not liked and yet they continue to do it.

It's not a matter of preference. It's a false compromise. You can maintain your current experience of not installing software and others can have a software tool that allows CPI and LOD to be customised. You now have two groups of people satisfied rather than just one. If Zowie actually cared about competitive gaming then they'd do this.

High click latency is bad. Are you really going to try to spin it as a good thing. The delusions of Zowie fans where they try to spin objective flaws as matters of "preference" is simply beyond belief. You know it's entirely possible to like their mice while also heavily criticising them. Zowie can do better and apologetics aren't helping anyone.


----------



## mndx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Plus it looks like batman had sex with a 3.0


isnt that another reason for it to be awesome ?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> But....
> DA is annyoing for us with big hands/long fingers...
> That upper right corner edge is where I need to hold my ring finger...
> Else it wont swipe horizontally


For ppl with those long finger full palm grip style, there is the rival with the same benefits like driver, less click delay etc.
I dunno but Zowie mice dont cut it anymore with todays alternatives.


----------



## altaar

When did all of this high click latency hysteria start?
I specifically remember when NiP CS:GO team ended their sponsorship with Steelseries and f0rest had switched over to an EC2-evo. Suddenly people started whining about click latency simply because they had heared of the word. More fun is that they seemed to forget that he initally used the kinzu v2 which had even more latency of about 10-12ms if the numbers are accurate from this thread


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Anyways there has definitely been times that I have noticed feeling "off" on certain shots I take in CS:GO using the EC2-evo-CL. Zowie has taken another step in the right direction, but I was hoping for an even bigger step. As people have already mentioned about actively improving the click latency is desirable. I think they would gain a lot by trying to make more of their products better suited for RTS/MOBA genres by using lighter mouse clicks, having more options regarding DPI/LOD steps and option to disable LED in the mousewheel.

Definitely very tempting to buy the EC2-A as the small increase in shape and 3310 sounds awesome.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altaar*
> 
> When did all of this high click latency hysteria start?
> I specifically remember when NiP CS:GO team ended their sponsorship with Steelseries and f0rest had switched over to an EC2-evo. Suddenly people started whining about click latency simply because they had heared of the word. More fun is that they seemed to forget that he initally used the kinzu v2 which had even more latency of about 10-12ms if the numbers are accurate from this thread
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways there has definitely been times that I have noticed feeling "off" on certain shots I take in CS:GO using the EC2-evo-CL. Zowie has taken another step in the right direction, but I was hoping for an even bigger step. As people have already mentioned about actively improving the click latency is desirable. I think they would gain a lot by trying to make more of their products better suited for RTS/MOBA genres by using lighter mouse clicks, having more options regarding DPI/LOD steps and option to disable LED in the mousewheel.
> 
> Definitely very tempting to buy the EC2-A as the small increase in shape and 3310 sounds awesome.


The high click latency hysteria started when people started to realize that Zowie's click latency is the last measurable objectivly good quality they still have to tackle. Honestly like a lot of other people here I've used mice with lower click latency and then also Zowie mice, I still often prefer a good Zowie mouse. But that isn't going to make me stop complaining about the click latency because once that is adressed their mice will be even better.

I'm going to shamelessly link to my ss Ikari optical review, which was more of a comparison to a Zowie EC1 eVo CL. Because I think it's a mouse that highlights why Zowie's mice are still so good even regardless of the click lag. Review here.

I think that Zowie should stick to huanos since it has kind of become their hallmark, and it also being a subjective preference.


----------



## mndx

honestly, i think nerds testing mice for click latency and stuff is the best thing, that could happen to Zowie, even if the results are bad.
It gives Zowie the possibilty to release new iterations of the same mouse without getting a bad reputation for wanting just another run of cash flowing into their wallets.
On the contrary they will get even praise for removing single flaws. And so it happens that this is now the forth Revision of their so called pro gaming mouse originally designed by heaton bla.
Y would they ever adress all problems at once.... would be the end of their EC Line and they actually had to come up with something really new.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mndx*
> 
> honestly, i think nerds testing mice for click latency and stuff is the best thing, that could happen to Zowie, even if the results are bad.
> It gives Zowie the possibilty to release new iterations of the same mouse without getting a bad reputation for wanting just another run of cash flowing into their wallets.
> On the contrary they will get even praise for removing single flaws. And so it happens that this is now the forth Revision of their so called pro gaming mouse originally designed by heaton bla.
> Y would they ever adress all problems at once.... would be the end of their EC Line and they actually had to come up with something really new.


You're funny. That mentality would mean that one would have bought any other mice after WMO.


----------



## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mndx*
> 
> honestly, i think nerds testing mice for click latency and stuff is the best thing, that could happen to Zowie, even if the results are bad.
> It gives Zowie the possibilty to release new iterations of the same mouse without getting a bad reputation for wanting just another run of cash flowing into their wallets.
> On the contrary they will get even praise for removing single flaws. And so it happens that this is now the forth Revision of their so called pro gaming mouse originally designed by heaton bla.
> Y would they ever adress all problems at once.... would be the end of their EC Line and they actually had to come up with something really new.


Razer fanboy confirmed


----------



## mndx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> Razer fanboy confirmed


Ok, thats y i have 4 Zowie mice and 1 razer mouse








Well, its just my opinion and i find i a bit sad, that Zowie is not giving us this good formfactor mouse in its full evolution state right now :/


----------



## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mndx*
> 
> Ok, thats y i have 4 Zowie mice and 1 razer mouse


must've been 4 really bad mice then, probably the worst batch ever


----------



## altaar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> But as soon as I started to round corners I felt disorientated and hesitant. CS:GO is a game that seems to be, more often then not, won by situations where you have to move your crosshair corner to corner rather than wait with a sniper watching a super tight angle.


This is pretty much how I feel about this high click latency "hysteria". It seems that it's more often the players inept display of aim rather than the latency of the mouse that is the "problem" even though this is kind of arrogant to say.

I do wish that they improve on the mouse click latency as it's only beneficial to the players.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> I think that Zowie should stick to huanos since it has kind of become their hallmark, and it also being a subjective preference.


I kinda agree on this, especially for FPS, but only problem is for example that I would not use my FK1 if I were to play any RTS/MOBA games actively since I can feel some discomfort after right clicking on the mouse like a maniac for an hour or two.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altaar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> I think that Zowie should stick to huanos since it has kind of become their hallmark, and it also being a subjective preference.
> 
> 
> 
> I kinda agree on this, especially for FPS, but only problem is for example that I would not use my FK1 if I were to play any RTS/MOBA games actively since I can feel some discomfort after right clicking on the mouse like a maniac for an hour or two.
Click to expand...

Zowie could also probably do RTS/MOBA editions with Omrons, people would probably like that a lot.


----------



## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> Zowie could also probably do RTS/MOBA editions with Omrons, people would probably like that a lot.


yep that's probably the best thing they could do, another entire line for moba/mmorpg/rts


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> Zowie could also probably do RTS/MOBA editions with Omrons, people would probably like that a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> yep that's probably the best thing they could do, another entire line for moba/mmorpg/rts
Click to expand...

I would think it would make the most sense if they did it like the CL edition. Where instead of just a different scroll wheel, they would have different switches.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> I think that Zowie should stick to huanos since it has kind of become their hallmark, and it also being a subjective preference.


A hallmark they share with the likes of Sharkoon Fireglider and similar lower end products.


----------



## exitone

It's people that buy into zowie's successful driverless gimmick that let zowie get away with releasing overpriced uninnovative products. Most mice today have onboard memory so you can uninstall after you've loading your settings onto the mouse. If we truly want zowie to improve, we need to make sure we are heard.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> It's people that buy into zowie's successful driverless gimmick that let zowie get away with releasing overpriced uninnovative products. Most mice today have onboard memory so you can uninstall after you've loading your settings onto the mouse. If we truly want zowie to improve, we need to make sure we are heard.


Zowie's "uninnovative"-ness is what makes their products good. Where other mouse manufacturers are innovating by making heavy mice with 20 buttons, Zowie sticks to the basics that work.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: exitone



Originally Posted by *exitone* 

It's people that buy into zowie's successful driverless gimmick that let zowie get away with releasing overpriced uninnovative products. Most mice today have onboard memory so you can uninstall after you've loading your settings onto the mouse. If we truly want zowie to improve, we need to make sure we are heard.





Spoiler: Quote: trriL



Originally Posted by *trriL* 

Zowie's "uninnovative"-ness is what makes their products good. Where other mouse manufacturers are innovating by making heavy mice with 20 buttons, Zowie sticks to the basics that work.



Zowie isn't innovating though. They are moving the whole industry backwards. We've now got good "optical" sensors that have advantages that "laser" sensors had such as adjustable CPI in small increments and being able to fine tune the LOD. Zowie is moving everything back to the days when optical sensors only had one or two native CPI steps and everything else was interpolated. They are effectively hamstringing their own products because of a pointless marketing gimmick.

Being able to change CPI, polling rate and LOD without software is good. But, software to unlock full sensor functionality is important. I set up my Logitech G302 with software once and then uninstalled the software to never use it again. The settings are saved on the mouse and will work with any computer. It's effectively as "driverless" as a Zowie mouse but I've got access to full sensor functionality if I want to. When Zowie was using limited sensors such as the A3090 this didn't matter but now they're using highly customisable sensors such as the PMW-3310 they need to start taking advantage of that sensor functionality.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Quote: exitone
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> It's people that buy into zowie's successful driverless gimmick that let zowie get away with releasing overpriced uninnovative products. Most mice today have onboard memory so you can uninstall after you've loading your settings onto the mouse. If we truly want zowie to improve, we need to make sure we are heard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Zowie isn't innovating though. They are moving the whole industry backwards. We've now got good "optical" sensors that have advantages that "laser" sensors had such as adjustable CPI in small increments and being able to fine tune the LOD. Zowie is moving everything back to the days when optical sensors only had one or two native CPI steps and everything else was interpolated. They are effectively hamstringing their own products because of a pointless marketing gimmick.
> 
> Being able to change CPI, polling rate and LOD without software is good. But, software to unlock full sensor functionality is important. I set up my Logitech G302 with software once and then uninstalled the software to never use it again. The settings are saved on the mouse and will work with any computer. It's effectively as "driverless" as a Zowie mouse but I've got access to full sensor functionality if I want to. When Zowie was using limited sensors such as the A3090 this didn't matter but now they're using highly customisable sensors such as the PMW-3310 they need to start taking advantage of that sensor functionality.
Click to expand...

I agree that software to offer full sensor fuctionality would be good. But I wasn't even refering to that in my previous comment. I was replying to exitone's comment saying that "It's people that buy into zowie's successful driverless gimmick that let zowie get away with releasing overpriced uninnovative products." when in reality it's from people who want light ergnomic mice.


----------



## IlIkeJuice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> Zowie isn't innovating though. They are moving the whole industry backwards. We've now got good "optical" sensors that have advantages that "laser" sensors had such as adjustable CPI in small increments and being able to fine tune the LOD. Zowie is moving everything back to the days when optical sensors only had one or two native CPI steps and everything else was interpolated. They are effectively hamstringing their own products because of a pointless marketing gimmick.


A good, no BS mouse is all I want. If that's moving 'backward', then the industry wasn't moving forward in the first place. And where the hell does it needs to go to anyway. It's a freaking mouse. You put your hand on it, you click buttons, cursor goes there. I don't need anything more. Just make it good.


----------



## Dreyka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IlIkeJuice*
> 
> A good, no BS mouse is all I want. If that's moving 'backward', then the industry wasn't moving forward in the first place. And where the hell does it needs to go to anyway. It's a freaking mouse. You put your hand on it, you click buttons, cursor goes there. I don't need anything more. Just make it good.


So you think being able to use full sensor functionality is "BS". You don't understand why it's important to be able to change CPI in 50cpi increments, like the PMW-3310 sensor is capable of, so you think it must be just rubbish.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> man a 15ms click delay is not failing when the majority of the people who purchase the products don't notice the defect.
> 
> i said they should fix the issue (like 3 times now), is that not enough to calm you down or are you going to keep on with this relentless moral droning about how a 15ms click delay is ruining an entire company?


from the zowie site..

If we can develop products that will increase a gamer's performance by just 1%, we will do it. This is our mentality.
If we can develop products that will increase a gamer's performance by just 1%, we will do it. This is our mentality.
If we can develop products that will increase a gamer's performance by just 1%, we will do it. This is our mentality.
If we can develop products that will increase a gamer's performance by just 1%, we will do it. This is our mentality.
If we can develop products that will increase a gamer's performance by just 1%, we will do it. This is our mentality.

1%. they will do it for 1%

how in the name of clown cursor potato shape snakeskin oil coating r0ach jeeebus is a 15ms~ click latency not hilariously bad compared to <0.5ms

Every single FPS gamer will want the lowest click latency they can have, the one that shoots first, usually does not die, given equal skill and gear, the 15ms will make that guy lose, ever. single. time.

Just because hes 15ms behind the other guy.

Also, it all adds up, 15 ms here, 16ms there(if 60 fps, 8ms if 120fps/hz) a bit extra there for video card rendering, some more over there for the potato driving the clown cursor cart into the ditch

Its not like they havent had the chance to fix it.

On another note, has anyone tried soldering in different switches for the Zowies?, Or is it a firmware crapshoot they made, in which case it should be "easy" for them to fix with a firmware update


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: Axaion



Originally Posted by *Axaion* 


> from the zowie site..
> 
> If we can develop products that will increase a gamer's performance by just 1%, we will do it. This is our mentality.
> If we can develop products that will increase a gamer's performance by just 1%, we will do it. This is our mentality.
> If we can develop products that will increase a gamer's performance by just 1%, we will do it. This is our mentality.
> If we can develop products that will increase a gamer's performance by just 1%, we will do it. This is our mentality.
> If we can develop products that will increase a gamer's performance by just 1%, we will do it. This is our mentality.
> 
> 1%. they will do it for 1%
> 
> how in the name of clown cursor potato shape snakeskin oil coating r0ach jeeebus is a 15ms~ click latency not hilariously bad compared to <0.5ms
> 
> Every single FPS gamer will want the lowest click latency they can have, the one that shoots first, usually does not die, given equal skill and gear, the 15ms will make that guy lose, ever. single. time.
> 
> Just because hes 15ms behind the other guy.
> 
> Also, it all adds up, 15 ms here, 16ms there(if 60 fps, 8ms if 120fps/hz) a bit extra there for video card rendering, some more over there for the potato driving the clown cursor cart into the ditch
> 
> Its not like they havent had the chance to fix it.
> 
> On another note, has anyone tried soldering in different switches for the Zowies?, Or is it a firmware crapshoot they made, in which case it should be "easy" for them to fix with a firmware update






Source here for those wondering.

Quote:


> ZOWIE GEAR has no ambition to become the biggest manufacturer of competitive gaming gear. We just want to be the best. If we can develop products that will increase a gamers performance by just 1%, we will do it. This is our mentality.


They can't even live up to their mission statement and they don't even try.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> If we can develop products that will increase a gamer's performance by just 1%, we will do it. This is our mentality.


_If we can_


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: trriL



Originally Posted by *trriL* 

If we can



Others can do it so why can't Zowie. I don't think Zowie even tried because they didn't think anyone would measure click latency.


----------



## Derp

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> from the zowie site..
> 
> If we can develop products that will increase a gamer's performance by just 1%, we will do it. This is our mentality.
> If we can develop products that will increase a gamer's performance by just 1%, we will do it. This is our mentality.
> If we can develop products that will increase a gamer's performance by just 1%, we will do it. This is our mentality.
> If we can develop products that will increase a gamer's performance by just 1%, we will do it. This is our mentality.
> If we can develop products that will increase a gamer's performance by just 1%, we will do it. This is our mentality.
> 
> 1%. they will do it for 1%
> 
> how in the name of clown cursor potato shape snakeskin oil coating r0ach jeeebus is a 15ms~ click latency not hilariously bad compared to <0.5ms
> 
> Every single FPS gamer will want the lowest click latency they can have, the one that shoots first, usually does not die, given equal skill and gear, the 15ms will make that guy lose, ever. single. time.
> 
> Just because hes 15ms behind the other guy.
> 
> Also, it all adds up, 15 ms here, 16ms there(if 60 fps, 8ms if 120fps/hz) a bit extra there for video card rendering, some more over there for the potato driving the clown cursor cart into the ditch
> 
> Its not like they havent had the chance to fix it.
> 
> On another note, has anyone tried soldering in different switches for the Zowies?, Or is it a firmware crapshoot they made, in which case it should be "easy" for them to fix with a firmware update






I agree entirely. I don't agree with anyone downplaying the problem regardless of their opinion of how it will affect *their* play. Saying nonsense about how pros can play fine with it and you should just practice instead of complaining about flaws is attempting to change the subject because you have no argument.

Zowie cannot paste that 1% crap in every product release page and then release mice that have almost the highest amount of click latency of all recent mice including tiny ODM shell using companies like Finalmouse. I can maybe understand Zowie selling mice with this problem back in the EC1/EC2/AM/FK days because they were new to mice but after nothing was done with the many FK refreshes it's simply unacceptable to me.

I would be using an FK2 right now if the click latency problem was fixed.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I agree entirely. I don't agree with anyone downplaying the problem regardless of their opinion of how it will affect *their* play. Saying nonsense about how pros can play fine with it and you should just practice instead of complaining about flaws is attempting to change the subject because you have no argument.
> 
> Zowie cannot paste that 1% crap in every product release page and then release mice that have almost the highest amount of click latency of all recent mice including tiny ODM shell using companies like Finalmouse. I can maybe understand Zowie selling mice with this problem back in the EC1/EC2/AM/FK days because they were new to mice but after nothing was done with the many FK refreshes it's simply unacceptable to me.
> 
> I would be using an FK2 right now if the click latency problem was fixed.


So you think the click latency on their mice makes them completely worthless? Because that's usually how people act when they talk about Zowie's click latency.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: trriL



Originally Posted by *trriL* 


> So you think the click latency on their mice makes them completely worthless? Because that's usually how people act when they talk about Zowie's click latency.






It's something that Zowie should improve on. Rather than have apologetics who constantly shift goal posts to defend Zowie. Nobody here thinks Zowie is terrible but they can and should improve.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> So you think the click latency on their mice makes them completely worthless? Because that's usually how people act when they talk about Zowie's click latency.


I wouldn't say worthless but they have known about it for a long time now without any fix. Many people are skipping their products because of it. Mainly those 1% guys that Zowie is supposedly focusing on


----------



## thuNDa

just found this again: http://www.overclock.net/t/1214638/mouse-click-response-time#post_16452550

that might suggest that the first mice from zowie(EC1 / 2 non-evo) actually had a low button latency.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> just found this again: http://www.overclock.net/t/1214638/mouse-click-response-time#post_16452550
> 
> that might suggest that the first mice from zowie(EC1 / 2 non-evo) actually had a low button latency.


Btw, have someone actually tested the FK1/FK2 to see if they have that button latency?
Maybe they fixed it, maybe not...


----------



## Aventadoor

For christ sake...

*CAN YOU NOTICE ZOWIE'S MEASURED CLICK LATENCY? MAYBE
CAN YOU NOTICE THAT ITS A HARD CLICK? YES
STOP TALKING ABOUT ZOWIE AND THEIR MEASURED CLICK LATENCY, ITS NOT THE REASON THE FK1 IS GETTING HATE, ITS BCUZ OF THE SHELL DESIGN WHICH MAKES IT A HARD CLICK. PLEASE GET IT INTO YOUR HEADS.*


----------



## ChieFz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> just found this again: http://www.overclock.net/t/1214638/mouse-click-response-time#post_16452550
> 
> that might suggest that the first mice from zowie(EC1 / 2 non-evo) actually had a low button latency.


Yes, that's my old mouse http://i.imgur.com/R9uRkHu.jpg
Then I bought a "EC2 eVo" and sold it after a few months, as is obvious delay on click

Otherwise, the fastest currently have is Xornet, the shape is also acceptable for my grip


----------



## treach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> For christ sake...
> 
> *CAN YOU NOTICE ZOWIE'S MEASURED CLICK LATENCY? MAYBE
> CAN YOU NOTICE THAT ITS A HARD CLICK? YES
> STOP TALKING ABOUT ZOWIE AND THEIR MEASURED CLICK LATENCY, ITS NOT THE REASON THE FK1 IS GETTING HATE, ITS BCUZ OF THE SHELL DESIGN WHICH MAKES IT A HARD CLICK. PLEASE GET IT INTO YOUR HEADS.*


If you claim you make competitive gaming mice and dont give a damn about click latency, then you should get hate, doesnt matter if shell or mcu or anythin... thats just incomptence or lazyness of zowie

It doesnt have to get in the head of anybody, its just bad work by zowie...


----------



## MLJS54

I love how everyone on this forum bashes companies for DPI marketing, and then complains that they *really* need something other than 400/800/1600/3200 for FPS games.

Also, why in the hell would you want to use mice with Huanos for RTS/MOBAs in the first place?


----------



## M0rb1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> I love how everyone on this forum bashes companies for DPI marketing, and then complains that they *really* need something other than 400/800/1600/3200 for FPS games.
> 
> Also, why in the hell would you want to use mice with Huanos for RTS/MOBAs in the first place?


Better question: Why the hell would you want to use a mouse made for first person shooters for RTS/MOBA's?


----------



## MLJS54

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M0rb1d*
> 
> Better question: Why the hell would you want to use a mouse made for first person shooters for RTS/MOBA's?


Simple answer: so you can complain about it on OCN


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> I love how everyone on this forum bashes companies for DPI marketing, and then complains that they *really* need something other than 400/800/1600/3200 for FPS games.
> 
> Also, why in the hell would you want to use mice with Huanos for RTS/MOBAs in the first place?


The complaints about DPI marketing are that companies make it seem like having 50000 dpi makes a mouse better and everyone should use high dpi, not being able to make your mouse 550 or 950 or whatever increment you want. And they usually accompany that argument by discussing how it's useful for RTS/MOBA and that the world doesn't revolve around FPS.

As for why someone would want to use a zowie mouse for RTS/MOBA, the answer is shape/design. And maybe they don't _just_ play RTS/MOBA, as most people play more than one type of game.


----------



## MLJS54

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> The complaints about DPI marketing are that companies make it seem like having 50000 dpi makes a mouse better and everyone should use high dpi, not being able to make your mouse 550 or 950 or whatever increment you want. And they usually accompany that argument by discussing how it's useful for RTS/MOBA and that the world doesn't revolve around FPS.
> 
> As for why someone would want to use a zowie mouse for RTS/MOBA, the answer is shape/design. And maybe they don't _just_ play RTS/MOBA, as most people play more than one type of game.


Shape? Yes. Design? No. Let's be serious, Huanos (especially paired with the AM/FK shells) are not optimal for RTS/MOBA.

The reality is that this company caters to the FPS crowd, all of their BS marketing aside, and which IMO they do really well. If I played other genres I would not be using a Zowie.


----------



## Johan450

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> yep that's probably the best thing they could do, another entire line for moba/mmorpg/rts


Isn't that the MiCO?


----------



## SoFGR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> just found this again: http://www.overclock.net/t/1214638/mouse-click-response-time#post_16452550
> 
> that might suggest that the first mice from zowie(EC1 / 2 non-evo) actually had a low button latency.


not sure about latency, but the clicks felt very mushy on my EC2 non-evo, left mouse button started registering single clicks are double clicks after only a few months of usage, very dissapointing !!
cord was purrrfect tho


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoFGR*
> 
> not sure about latency, but the clicks felt very mushy on my EC2 non-evo, left mouse button started registering single clicks are double clicks after only a few months of usage, very dissapointing !!
> cord was purrrfect tho


That might be the reason zowie increased the click latency on newer models


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> _If we can_


that means one of two things then..

Option one: Theyre incompetent, due to the fact that there are other mice out there with the needed lower click latency

Or number two: They dont give a damn, and want to cut corners due to cost as much as humanly possible, to hell with the "1%" - which in case would make their entire press release complete bogus for quite some time.

Pick one


----------



## aLv1080

Someone should email them about that problem

"Alberto Duarte
Marketing Manager
Email: [email protected]"


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: aLv1080



Originally Posted by *aLv1080* 

Someone should email them about that problem

"Alberto Duarte
Marketing Manager
Email: [email protected]"



You'll either get a form letter response of "We care very much for your feedback... blah blah" or no response at all.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> You'll either get a form letter response of "We care very much for your feedback... blah blah" or no response at all.


I emailed him once asking about South America market and stuff and he was very nice to me.
I'll send him another email today regarding about the click latency.


----------



## Sargas290X

It's too bad these mice are next to impossible to find in Canada.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sargas290X*
> 
> It's too bad these mice are next to impossible to find in Canada.


http://www.canadacomputers.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=Zowie&sid=cafnd5u621jtgjm38rn4vdgft1&x=0&y=0


----------



## Sargas290X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> http://www.canadacomputers.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=Zowie&sid=cafnd5u621jtgjm38rn4vdgft1&x=0&y=0


Last time I looked at that website the FK2 wasn't available online.


----------



## altaar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> Someone should email them about that problem
> 
> "Alberto Duarte
> Marketing Manager
> Email: [email protected]"


Actually I got an email from him just before new years after I gave some warm words about his efficiency and communication in a post on OCN. So they definitely read this forum, but how they want to tackle different issues brought up here I have no idea about


----------



## Sargas290X

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altaar*
> 
> Actually I got an email from him just before new years after I gave some warm words about his efficiency and communication in a post on OCN. So they definitely read this forum, but how they want to tackle different issues brought up here I have no idea about


Well Canada Computers is fine, a friend of mine had some problems trying to order a Zowie mouse from them. I don't know what he ended up doing. But it would be nice if Zowie mice were available on more mainstream electronics retailers such as NCIX or Amazon.ca. I would be using a Zowie mouse right now if they were more available.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sargas290X*
> 
> Well Canada Computers is fine, a friend of mine had some problems trying to order a Zowie mouse from them. I don't know what he ended up doing. But it would be nice if Zowie mice were available on more mainstream electronics retailers such as NCIX or Amazon.ca. I would be using a Zowie mouse right now if they were more available.


I have two canadian friends that bought their zowie mice in CanadaComputers, and also a brazilian friend that bought a FK1 when he went to Canada.
It seems ok, but the FK1 is kinda expensive right now. It was 45CAD a few weeks ago...

Can't you buy it on Amazon US?


----------



## Sargas290X

I guess the US Amazon will ship in to Canada, not all products allow that. It looks like the FK2 is 45$ but that's only with a MIR, which I will pass on. I have my eye on the Ninox Aurora right now which is $35 when it drop on massdrop.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> and for people crying about the coating issues they had in the past, it was officially addressed by zowie and fixed (the announcement was on their website and still is i think). my ec2 evo cL had the coating issue (and it didnt happen until after 3 months of constant use), my vanilla FK and FK1 did not. it didn't effect my grip or play anyway, so whatever. some people on these mouse forums are such doomsday advocates.
> 
> apparently there is a scroll wheel issue too, which none of my zowie mice have. i love their scroll wheels. but you know, if one person had it then you know, the whole line of zowie products must be defective.


Coatings will wear off eventually. Depending on how acidic your skin's oil is determines how fast the coating will deteriorate

I had like 4-5 ECs that had the same issue with the shell not being designed to hold the scroll wheel in place. I think after complaining they tried to put in a buffer to take up the space so the scroll wheel doesn't jump. I don't know if the new 3310 ECs have a redesigned mold.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> no and its hardly noticeable to 99.9% of the people that use the mouse also.
> i have 3 zowie mice including an ec2 evo cL and i never noticed the delay, apparently only elite FPS gamers can notice it (im just a lowly RTS scrub).


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> Going from a Logitech mouse to a diff brand is completely noticeable. If we constantly have this attitude where we act ignorant to the problem it's never gonna get fixed. Zowie needs to start living up to their expectations. I used to LOVE Zowie and I would LOVE to own a new EC2-A if I knew they were doing something about click latency.


I was playing around with that A or B mouse input latency test program again. I scored 25/25 with the Zowie AM-GS when I set it to 6-10ms. I haven't tried 5ms yet and 4ms seems to be my limit of detection with my current settings (and lack of sleep). Maybe if I change some settings I could detect under 6ms with that test program -- I didn't put much effort into it yet. The only way I could notice this low of a latency is by focusing on the cursor's fluidity rather than instant response from initial motion. I don't think 1-5ms is very noticeable in-game for most people. Even those people who are focusing on latency will have a hard time noticing (when using a 120Hz refresh rate LCD) without checking cursor fluidity specifically. If you have to test a mouse for that level of response, using the fluidity technique, you are probably not really going to be greatly affected in-game.

Whatever the latency is between the 1150 and 2300 setting of the older Zowie mice I can detect it. If I didn't have the 2300 setting on the same mouse to directly compare I might be able to live with the latency of the 1150 setting until I got a mouse with less MCU/coding delay.

Now that Zowie has finally moved on to the 3310 for their mice does the MCU still have that high switch delay?

Onto the issue that is bothering me currently.

I have been playing on 120-144Hz refresh rates with the Zowie AM-GS. The switch delay is so distracting at higher refresh rates. It's very noticeable to me, to the point I have to combat the issue by changing my firing technique, timing or sensitivity. Using my lower sensitivity requires me to press the buttons (what appears to be) far in advance of the target when using a higher refresh rate. When using a lower refresh rate and a low 4:3 resolution my low sensitivity is fine because I only had to press mouse 1 (what seems to be) slightly before coming on target. In other words, it is less problematic when you are timing the click based on less perceived motion (low refresh rate). The additional information a higher refresh rate provides shows just how much distance you are having to press the button before you arrive on target (which is distracting me). For me it is very problematic for a game like Global Offensive because the friction and acceleration is high, but the max unit speed is only 250. So when an evading target is closer to me I can have problems hitting it because I have to track the head for at least 16ms (and a reaction disadvantage of 30ms for clock correction on bad servers) as they dodge erratically. In consequence I had to increased my sensitivity to balance out the switch delay to my reaction times when using a high refresh rate.

As I swipe/flick or track with the Zowie mice I have to constantly remind myself about pressing the buttons before my crosshair comes on target. It isn't natural to be guessing how far ahead I should press the button to make up for the delay, especially when the opponent can stop instantly and change direction (utilizing the 30ms clock correction advantage). In a FPS where instant head shots (aka fast reaction times and precision) determines the victor in high level competition, the Zowie mice make me feel detached from the game. I will probably go back to the Diamondback or buy a spaceship (aka a Logitech mouse).


----------



## Secondo

Ever heard about ScreaM in CSGO? Probably. Ever heard about area-? His aim is probably on par with ScreaM, and afaik they are friends. He uses the Zowie EC2 eVo and he didn't get it from sponsors it was purely chosen by himself. If he approves, it must be a good mouse?


----------



## the1onewolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Secondo*
> 
> Ever heard about ScreaM in CSGO? Probably. Ever heard about area-? His aim is probably on par with ScreaM, and afaik they are friends. He uses the Zowie EC2 eVo and he didn't get it from sponsors it was purely chosen by himself. If he approves, it must be a good mouse.


Your infallible logic aside, that's double scream


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Secondo*
> 
> Ever heard about ScreaM in CSGO? Probably. Ever heard about area-? His aim is probably on par with ScreaM, and afaik they are friends. He uses the Zowie EC2 eVo and he didn't get it from sponsors it was purely chosen by himself. If he approves, it must be a good mouse?


Area has always been suspected of being a cheater. Be it external program or exploit. If he was using the interp exploit the Zowie switch latency would be irrelevant as he has the reaction time advantage. If he was using cheats... like other "pro" players... Also keep in mind that in earlier GO hit boxes were larger and recoil/spread was easier.


----------



## Secondo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1onewolf*
> 
> Your infallible logic aside, that's double scream


Well if it totally sucked, he wouldn't be using it especially on his level. That's just my logic.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Area has always been suspected of being a cheater. Be it external program or exploit. If he was using the interp exploit the Zowie switch latency would be irrelevant as he has the reaction time advantage. If he was using cheats... like other "pro" players... Also keep in mind that in earlier GO hit boxes were larger and recoil/spread was easier.


I'm pretty sure he's legit.

Also,


----------



## optimisTGO

Scream uses a DA. I have heard many top French players talk about how sketchy Area is. At LANs he was known to carry his mouse with him if he went to the bathroom and stuff. He refused to let anyone else touch it at all.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Secondo*
> 
> Well if it totally sucked, he wouldn't be using it especially on his level. That's just my logic.


It's not like the mice are unusable (unless you use the 3090 Zowie mice on 450CPI and 500Hz). Regardless of sensor the switch latency isn't allowing an aggressive play-style (with consistency) where you can flick to a target and shoot naturally. Rather you have to press the button 16ms+ ahead of the player model when you are flicking between multiple targets or it forces you to spend more time tracking a single target to get successful hits. It could be much more responsive.

I wonder if Neo has performances problems in GO because of this issue. In CS it wasn't that much of an issue because it's much more precise of a game and the max FPS was only 100. Maybe that is why he still uses a 100Hz refresh rate?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> I'm pretty sure he's legit.
> 
> Also,


That is what they said about pro players until they finally got caught.


----------



## AnimalK

I understand if a player is paranoid with people messing with their hardware at such a high level of competition.

However I do not understand not letting people look at it without touching or taking pictures of the underside/lens/sensor.

I wonder if either of them would agree to doing the latter.


----------



## zeflow

I understand their might be slight delays on click latency; the facts are it doesn't affect the top players, just gives people something to complain about.

Here is a small list of pro CS players that use Zowie mice. There is many more..

f0rest - ec2
kioshima - ec2
seized - ec2
device - ec2
dupreeh - fk1
neo - fk1
steel - fk1
azk - fk1
skadoodle - fk1
schneider - fk1


----------



## altaar

I enjoy that most of what you've said about area has just been general rumours. He's always been suspected of cheating, but that does not mean he cheats. Also I am pretty sure that the early cs:go hitboxes are the same as now. Difference now is what you said about accuracy values, but movement was also way different.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> I understand their might be slight delays on click latency; the facts are it doesn't affect the top players, just gives people something to complain about.
> 
> Here is a small list of pro CS players that use Zowie mice. There is many more..
> 
> f0rest - ec2
> kennys - ec2
> kioshima - ec2
> seized - ec2
> device - ec2
> dupreeh - fk1
> neo - fk1
> steel - fk1
> azk - fk1
> skadoodle - fk1
> schneider - fk1


Where is your info from? I was under the impression kennys was using a DA2013 like scream.


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> Where is your info from? I was under the impression kennys was using a DA2013 like scream.


Yes, both use the DA2013. He used to have EC1/EC2 back when he wasn't in Titan, who have Razer as their sponsor. Same thing with LDLC, shox used to have a DA2013 when he was in Titan and Epsilon, but now that he's in LDLC who have CoolerMaster as their sponsor, he uses a CM Storm Mizar.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> I understand their might be slight delays on click latency; the facts are it doesn't affect the top players, just gives people something to complain about.
> 
> Here is a small list of pro CS players that use Zowie mice. There is many more..
> 
> f0rest - ec2
> kioshima - ec2
> seized - ec2
> device - ec2
> dupreeh - fk1
> neo - fk1
> steel - fk1
> azk - fk1
> skadoodle - fk1
> schneider - fk1


Funny how most of those players have consistency issues. Also most of them are not precision type players.

Skadoodle's AWPing skills are random. He can be doing well in one round then horrible in the next or great in 1 map of a series then performs badly the rest.

When it comes to AWPing with a Zowie mouse it isn't that much of an issue because the FOV changes when you zoom in. So you will have a larger target to aim at, which makes it less likely you will miss do to high switch latency. It could actually help you because the AWP in GO requires a wait time before you can shoot and having a little more time adjusting your aim before you fire is helpful. I don't have any issues with AWPing outside of having to place my crosshair further from the wall to compensate for the slower button response times.

If everyone can notice 30ms clock correction -- I can notice 10ms of an initial input delay without checking the fluidity of the cursor -- some people are not performing up to their full potential due to the switch delay. Don't forget that the stiffer actuation force for the switches also slows your reaction times.

When I play on a higher refresh rate the game feels like this GOTV video looks.

http://fragbite.se/fragtv/video/1952/olofm-vs-navi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altaar*
> 
> Also I am pretty sure that the early cs:go hitboxes are the same as now. Difference now is what you said about accuracy values, but movement was also way different.


After some complaining and posting Valve changed the hit boxes a few times since release. The last time they changed them is when Micron and myself complained about the hit box sizes compared to the player model. Unfortunately Valve made the head a little smaller than they should have, which is why it is a little harder to hit people in the head from the side or the rear.

It would be nice if Zowie stepped up their quality and design considering it is very likely they will have the 3310 for a very long time. They should work on getting very low button latency using a different MCU that has 125, 250, 500 and 1000Hz. Also they should redesign their shapes to have a separate button piece and a top mounted CPI button.


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Funny how most of those players have consistency issues. Also most of them are not precision type players.
> 
> Skadoodle's AWPing skills are random. He can be doing well in one round and horrible in the next or great in 1 map of a series then crap the rest.
> 
> When it comes to AWPing with a Zowie mouse it isn't that much of an issue because the FOV changes when you zoom in. So you will have a larger target to aim at, which makes it less likely you will miss do to high switch latency. It could actually help you because the AWP in GO requires a wait time before you can shoot and having a little more time adjusting your aim before you fire is helpful. I don't have any issues with AWPing outside of having to place my crosshair further from the wall to compensate for the slower button response times.
> 
> If everyone can notice 30ms clock correction and I can notice 10ms of an initial input delay with out checking the fluidity of the cursor, some people are noticing the click delay during in-game moments. Don't forget that the stiffer actuation force for the switches also slows your reaction times.
> After some complaining and posting Valve changed the hit boxes a few times since release. The last time they changed them is when Micron and myself complained about the hit box sizes compared to the player model. Unfortunately Valve made the head a little smaller than they should have, which is why it is a little harder to hit people in the head from the side or the rear.
> 
> It would be nice if Zowie stepped up their quality and design considering it is very likely they will have the 3310 for a very long time. They should work on getting very low button latency using a different MCU that has 125, 250, 500 and 1000Hz. Also they should redesign their shapes to have a separate button piece and a top mounted CPI button.


The reality is all top players have consistency issues regardless of their peripherals; It's CS:GO mang


----------



## Kyal

Area used an interp bug btw


----------



## c0dy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> Where is your info from? I was under the impression kennys was using a DA2013 like scream.


Must be older. As far as a few twitch-sites (non-twitch are linked) say:

f0rest Kinzu v2
KennyS Razer DeathAdder 2013
seized SteelSeries Sensei RAW Na`Vi Edition
device ZOWIE Ec1 CL eVo

for example.


----------



## zeflow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *c0dy*
> 
> Must be older. As far as a few twitch-sites (non-twitch are linked) say:
> 
> f0rest Kinzu v2
> KennyS Razer DeathAdder 2013
> seized SteelSeries Sensei RAW Na`Vi Edition
> device ZOWIE Ec1 CL eVo
> 
> for example.


Forest and seized use Ec2 now


----------



## Creizai




----------



## c0dy

Good to know









Guess they are not like me, once I get something new I update everything


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *c0dy*
> 
> Good to know
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guess they are not like me, once I get something new I update everything


They're earning a living hence very little time to facebook their life and adventures.

They use what works BUT I'm surprised the company paying them is keeping quiet about their hardware I thought they would of worked out a lucrative deal to supply and promote all the devices used in tournaments.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: popups



Originally Posted by *popups* 


> Coatings will wear off eventually. Depending on how acidic your skin's oil is determines how fast the coating will deteriorate
> 
> I had like 4-5 ECs that had the same issue with the shell not being designed to hold the scroll wheel in place. I think after complaining they tried to put in a buffer to take up the space so the scroll wheel doesn't jump. I don't know if the new 3310 ECs have a redesigned mold.
> 
> I was playing around with that A or B mouse input latency test program again. I scored 25/25 with the Zowie AM-GS when I set it to 6-10ms. I haven't tried 5ms yet and 4ms seems to be my limit of detection with my current settings (and lack of sleep). Maybe if I change some settings I could detect under 6ms with that test program -- I didn't put much effort into it yet. The only way I could notice this low of a latency is by focusing on the cursor's fluidity rather than instant response from initial motion. I don't think 1-5ms is very noticeable in-game for most people. Even those people who are focusing on latency will have a hard time noticing (when using a 120Hz refresh rate LCD) without checking cursor fluidity specifically. If you have to test a mouse for that level of response, using the fluidity technique, you are probably not really going to be greatly affected in-game.
> 
> Whatever the latency is between the 1150 and 2300 setting of the older Zowie mice I can detect it. If I didn't have the 2300 setting on the same mouse to directly compare I might be able to live with the latency of the 1150 setting until I got a mouse with less MCU/coding delay.
> 
> Now that Zowie has finally moved on to the 3310 for their mice does the MCU still have that high switch delay?
> 
> Onto the issue that is bothering me currently.
> 
> I have been playing on 120-144Hz refresh rates with the Zowie AM-GS. The switch delay is so distracting at higher refresh rates. It's very noticeable to me, to the point I have to combat the issue by changing my firing technique, timing or sensitivity. Using my lower sensitivity requires me to press the buttons (what appears to be) far in advance of the target when using a higher refresh rate. When using a lower refresh rate and a low 4:3 resolution my low sensitivity is fine because I only had to press mouse 1 (what seems to be) slightly before coming on target. In other words, it is less problematic when you are timing the click based on less perceived motion (low refresh rate). The additional information a higher refresh rate provides shows just how much distance you are having to press the button before you arrive on target (which is distracting me). For me it is very problematic for a game like Global Offensive because the friction and acceleration is high, but the max unit speed is only 250. So when an evading target is closer to me I can have problems hitting it because I have to track the head for at least 16ms (and a reaction disadvantage of 30ms for clock correction on bad servers) as they dodge erratically. In consequence I had to increased my sensitivity to balance out the switch delay to my reaction times when using a high refresh rate.
> 
> As I swipe/flick or track with the Zowie mice I have to constantly remind myself about pressing the buttons before my crosshair comes on target. It isn't natural to be guessing how far ahead I should press the button to make up for the delay, especially when the opponent can stop instantly and change direction (utilizing the 30ms clock correction advantage). In a FPS where instant head shots (aka fast reaction times and precision) determines the victor in high level competition, the Zowie mice make me feel detached from the game. I will probably go back to the Diamondback or buy a spaceship (aka a Logitech mouse).






The most ridiculous aspect is that firmware in Zowie mice is not flashable. Meaning that if they want to fix the click latency then you'll have to buy a new mouse. Every other mouse maker out there realised long ago that firmware that can't be flashed is a really bad idea. Remember the problems with the Razer Abyssus.


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Quote: popups
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Coatings will wear off eventually. Depending on how acidic your skin's oil is determines how fast the coating will deteriorate
> 
> I had like 4-5 ECs that had the same issue with the shell not being designed to hold the scroll wheel in place. I think after complaining they tried to put in a buffer to take up the space so the scroll wheel doesn't jump. I don't know if the new 3310 ECs have a redesigned mold.
> 
> I was playing around with that A or B mouse input latency test program again. I scored 25/25 with the Zowie AM-GS when I set it to 6-10ms. I haven't tried 5ms yet and 4ms seems to be my limit of detection with my current settings (and lack of sleep). Maybe if I change some settings I could detect under 6ms with that test program -- I didn't put much effort into it yet. The only way I could notice this low of a latency is by focusing on the cursor's fluidity rather than instant response from initial motion. I don't think 1-5ms is very noticeable in-game for most people. Even those people who are focusing on latency will have a hard time noticing (when using a 120Hz refresh rate LCD) without checking cursor fluidity specifically. If you have to test a mouse for that level of response, using the fluidity technique, you are probably not really going to be greatly affected in-game.
> 
> Whatever the latency is between the 1150 and 2300 setting of the older Zowie mice I can detect it. If I didn't have the 2300 setting on the same mouse to directly compare I might be able to live with the latency of the 1150 setting until I got a mouse with less MCU/coding delay.
> 
> Now that Zowie has finally moved on to the 3310 for their mice does the MCU still have that high switch delay?
> 
> Onto the issue that is bothering me currently.
> 
> I have been playing on 120-144Hz refresh rates with the Zowie AM-GS. The switch delay is so distracting at higher refresh rates. It's very noticeable to me, to the point I have to combat the issue by changing my firing technique, timing or sensitivity. Using my lower sensitivity requires me to press the buttons (what appears to be) far in advance of the target when using a higher refresh rate. When using a lower refresh rate and a low 4:3 resolution my low sensitivity is fine because I only had to press mouse 1 (what seems to be) slightly before coming on target. In other words, it is less problematic when you are timing the click based on less perceived motion (low refresh rate). The additional information a higher refresh rate provides shows just how much distance you are having to press the button before you arrive on target (which is distracting me). For me it is very problematic for a game like Global Offensive because the friction and acceleration is high, but the max unit speed is only 250. So when an evading target is closer to me I can have problems hitting it because I have to track the head for at least 16ms (and a reaction disadvantage of 30ms for clock correction on bad servers) as they dodge erratically. In consequence I had to increased my sensitivity to balance out the switch delay to my reaction times when using a high refresh rate.
> 
> As I swipe/flick or track with the Zowie mice I have to constantly remind myself about pressing the buttons before my crosshair comes on target. It isn't natural to be guessing how far ahead I should press the button to make up for the delay, especially when the opponent can stop instantly and change direction (utilizing the 30ms clock correction advantage). In a FPS where instant head shots (aka fast reaction times and precision) determines the victor in high level competition, the Zowie mice make me feel detached from the game. I will probably go back to the Diamondback or buy a spaceship (aka a Logitech mouse).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The most ridiculous aspect is that firmware in Zowie mice is not flashable. Meaning that if they want to fix the click latency then you'll have to buy a new mouse. Every other mouse maker out there realised long ago that firmware that can't be flashed is a really bad idea. Remember the problems with the Razer Abyssus.
Click to expand...

If the click latency is coming from the MCU they wouldn't be able to fix it with just a firmware update. But yeah I agree with you the firmware probably should be flashable. Although I don't think it's as big of a deal since Zowie hasn't historically messed up as much as Razer has with new products. Like their MiCO the bug on that was nothing in the real world.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> If the click latency is coming from the MCU they wouldn't be able to fix it with just a firmware update.


yes, they would be able to "fix" it, if it was flashable.
it's a setting in the firmware which is responsible for the relative high click latency.
but if they set it lower, then the mice are more prone to doubleclick issues.
(BTW, the old Deathadders use the same MCU, and the click latency varies with one firmware to another)


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *trriL*
> 
> If the click latency is coming from the MCU they wouldn't be able to fix it with just a firmware update.
> 
> 
> 
> yes, they would be able to "fix" it, if it was flashable.
> it's a setting in the firmware which is responsible for the relative high click latency.
> but if they set it lower, then the mice are more prone to doubleclick issues.
> (BTW, the old Deathadders use the same MCU, and the click latency varies with one firmware to another)
Click to expand...

I don't think you read what I wrote.
"_If_ the click latency is coming from the MCU they wouldn't be able to fix it with _just_ a firmware update.
_If_ is hypothetical, _just_ is explicitly referring back to _*if* the click latency is coming from the MCU._


----------



## detto87

There are still some things for Zowie to improve on and I'm afraid their whole 3310 lineup hasn't improved anything from the following list:

- mouse feet are WAY too thin
- coating options because rubber coating gets greasy/oily
- button click latency is +15ms compared to most Logitech G mice

To me those are minor things though.
They provide a 2nd pair of feet in the package. Apply them on top and adjust your sensitivity ingame.
Not everyone likes a full glossy mouse and ABS plastic has its own problems in the long run.
Click latency is +5ms compared to an overclocked MLT04 mouse. So, you can get used to it.

They could of course allow for finer CPI and LOD adjustment, but it isn't necessary for their targeted audience.

What matters to me the most is the simple fact of: 3310 + EC2 shape. I HAVE to get one. At least to try it out.

offtopic: Saying Area is not cheating just shows how uninformed or rather unexperienced you are in CS.


----------



## treach

Who the hell came i up came up with the rumor of high button lag to redeuce double click issues???


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> offtopic: Saying Area is not cheating just shows how uninformed or rather unexperienced you are in CS.


Area is 100% legit, just like FODDER

Kappa


----------



## oxidized

well too low LOD is the only problem i encountered with an EC2 evo, it's really awful


----------



## c0dy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> They're earning a living hence very little time to facebook their life and adventures.
> 
> They use what works BUT I'm surprised the company paying them is keeping quiet about their hardware I thought they would of worked out a lucrative deal to supply and promote all the devices used in tournaments.


true. But they do not have Steelseries as sponsor anymore. And Xtrfy only has Keyboards. Guess that's why some of them do not play with SS-Mice anymore. I think I have seen friberg playing with a Logitech now and not with the Rival anymore.


----------



## oxidized

why would you buy a mouse only cause it's used by a pro player, it's the most stupid thing ever


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> Area is 100% legit, just like FODDER
> 
> Kappa


pretty sure fodder just has 0ms button lag mouse (g300)


----------



## Crizzl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> pretty sure fodder just has 0ms button lag mouse (g300)


You do realize that the g300 is just the reference point right?


----------



## Creizai

WMO, IMO, and 3.0 Is the standard of FPS game mice. They all range from +10ms to +12ms compared to the G300. Zowie mice range from +15 to +18ms. There is a reason why a vast majority are not out ranged.

If you can't handle +3 to +5ms button latency then buy a logitech.

COLLER
O
L
L
E
R

WMO
M
O

It is literally preference.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creizai*
> 
> WMO, IMO, and 3.0 Is the standard of FPS game mice.


Still can't believe that ancient input devices still rule the roost when it comes to gaming.

You're basically saying that in 2015, EVERY single manufacturer of mice have failed to deliver a WMO, IMO and an IE3.0 beater?


----------



## povohat

Is there any technical reason why people believe Zowie mice can't be flashed to different firmware?


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> pretty sure fodder just has 0ms button lag mouse (g300)


He's just better than Hiko.
Hiko is a joke, right?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creizai*
> 
> WMO, IMO, and 3.0 Is the standard of FPS game mice. They all range from +10ms to +12ms compared to the G300. Zowie mice range from +15 to +18ms. There is a reason why a vast majority are not out ranged.
> 
> If you can't handle +3 to +5ms button latency then buy a logitech.
> 
> COLLER
> O
> L
> L
> E
> R
> 
> WMO
> M
> O
> 
> It is literally preference.


I'd love to buy a Logitech mouse, but I just hate the shape of all of them.
A normal ambidextrous shape with side buttons and without looking like a "1337-mousenoscopes420" would be amazing. I'd buy 10 of them.


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Still can't believe that ancient input devices still rule the roost when it comes to gaming.
> 
> You're basically saying that in 2015, EVERY single manufacturer of mice have failed to deliver a WMO, IMO and an IE3.0 beater?


No I am simply saying those are the gold standard for FPS Mice. Mouse Latency wise everything is within +5 to +10ms range, with logitech being -5 to -10ms. You have to put everything into context. The best sensor I have ever used has been the WMO. The issue however is that once I started playing SC2 more and more I wanted higher dpi, and I also prefer higher dpi for desktop usage. Zowie has finally fixed the single biggest problem with there mice, better standard dpi steps and gave us a 3310 upgrade to the mix for people with low quake style sensitivity.

*WMO*

Zowie FK1
Zowie FK2
Logitech G100s
ROG Sica
Razer Abyssus
Steel Series Kana
Ninox Aurora
*IMO*

Zowie AM
Logitech 402
Steel Series Sensei
CM Storm Recon
*3.0*

Zowie EC1
Zowie EC2
Razer DeathAdder
CM Storm Alcor
ROG Gladus
Logitech G502


----------



## maxvons

Been using the EC1 Evo CL for a few months now. Shape is perfect for me, will never buy a mouse with a different shape. The 1150 CPI step was a bit weird at first, but quite used to it now. Looks like I'm getting a new mouse after all, but that may be the last one I'll ever buy.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treach*
> 
> Who the hell came i up came up with the rumor of high button lag to redeuce double click issues???


That is an actual thing companies do. I think they call it "debounce." It's an option if they choose to use it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creizai*
> 
> WMO, IMO, and 3.0 Is the standard of FPS game mice. They all range from +10ms to +12ms compared to the G300. Zowie mice range from +15 to +18ms. There is a reason why a vast majority are not out ranged.
> 
> If you can't handle +3 to +5ms button latency then buy a logitech.
> 
> It is literally preference.


Quake players don't need the same timing as a CS player does because the "hit boxes" in Quake are cylindrical and larger than the player model. Also you don't have to hit an opponent in the head to do max damage.

Most CS players don't want to use an Intellimouse anymore even if they have strong nostalgic fondness for it. I see players going back to the Intellimouse when they don't have a contract -- they end up realizing the limitations -- they ultimately find something more modern.

I used the Intellimouse in the early days of CS. When the Diamondback came out I switched to that immediately and used it until it broke a couple years ago. It seems I was the only player around back then to use that mouse as others told me they either had an Intellimouse/WMO or a MX518. The Diamondback's buttons feel way better than my Zowie EC1/2, AM or FK (a separate button piece, lighter switches and 9ms advantage). Even the DeathAdder I used for a while had the same button behavior (minus the separate button piece).

Didn't Kingsis make the Razer Diamondback and the Zowie mice?

I wonder what the total switch delay is on the Zowie mice. Has Logitech said what their total delay is for their mice? I would like to know how much time a mouse is adding to your final reaction times.


----------



## Robobot

Don't a rather large amount of pro CS players use FK's? It seems half of them use either a Deathadder or FK.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creizai*
> 
> *WMO*
> 
> 
> 
> ROG Sica
> 
> 
> *3.0*
> 
> 
> 
> Zowie EC2


Those two above are my next purchases especially the future version of Zowie EC2-A







.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> It was my decision not to launch this new series. We have started to receive many emails from players regarding this product and this made me realize that I had made a huge mistake by ignoring those who were in need of what they loved.


I don't believe this. Surely its been on the cards since day one and they were just waiting for FK1 sales to die down a little. I think this line is just pure marketing. As in "Hey look at us we'll listen to our community and respond with what they want".......Happy to be wrong but just seems like a really weird thing to say. I mean they must of been bombarded with emails daily asking this. Their road map must of included this release from the moment the FK1 was just an idea.

Anyway will be getting the new EC2


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creizai*
> 
> WMO, IMO, and 3.0 Is the standard of FPS game mice. They all range from +10ms to +12ms compared to the G300. Zowie mice range from +15 to +18ms. There is a reason why a vast majority are not out ranged.
> 
> If you can't handle +3 to +5ms button latency then buy a logitech.
> 
> COLLER
> O
> L
> L
> E
> R
> 
> WMO
> M
> O
> 
> It is literally preference.


Why stop at 3-5ms?, thats nothing, why dont we all settle for another 15 ms over the super old Intellimice?

Why not take it another 15 over that?

You have to draw a line somewhere, and if we dont, itll keep going up and up, just like DPI/CPI

BTFO
T
F
O


----------



## povohat

I speculate that the FK series was way more popular than any of their previous products. Maybe they had less interest in the eVo-CL series than they had hoped, and thought they could slim down and just profit off selling FKs only. Maybe the size increase of the FK1 was an attempt to convert some of the EC users.

Or it could purely be, as you said, a marketing spin that makes consumers buy the product because apparently they asked for it.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Still can't believe that ancient input devices still rule the roost when it comes to gaming.
> 
> You're basically saying that in 2015, EVERY single manufacturer of mice have failed to deliver a WMO, IMO and an IE3.0 beater?


For a lot, yes, mainly shape wise. There just havent been any replacement for mice like the 1.1 and 3.0 (for me 3.0) every mouse out there is just tiny or has a horrible coating for the lulz

Tracking wise, there is really nothing that has beaten them yet as long as you dont need the high PCS or more than 400-450DPI


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Why stop at 3-5ms?, thats nothing, why dont we all settle for another 15 ms over the super old Intellimice?
> 
> Why not take it another 15 over that?
> 
> You have to draw a line somewhere, and if we dont, itll keep going up and up, just like DPI/CPI
> 
> BTFO
> T
> F
> O


We actually did draw the line... it was called the Kinzu V2 Pro. I know I sure did
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> I don't believe this. Surely its been on the cards since day one and they were just waiting for FK1 sales to die down a little. I think this line is just pure marketing. As in "Hey look at us we'll listen to our community and respond with what they want".......Happy to be wrong but just seems like a really weird thing to say. I mean they must of been bombarded with emails daily asking this. Their road map must of included this release from the moment the FK1 was just an idea.
> 
> Anyway will be getting the new EC2


I'm sure it was part of there road map. However there was already a thread begging for the 3310


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: Creizai



Originally Posted by *Creizai* 

We actually did draw the line... it was called the Kinzu V2 Pro. I know I sure did
I'm sure it was part of there road map. However there was already a thread begging for the 3310



Can you stop spending so much effort on defending what we all agreed should be improved on by Zowie. High click latency should be improved upon.



Spoiler: Quote: povohat



Originally Posted by *povohat* 


> I speculate that the FK series was way more popular than any of their previous products. Maybe they had less interest in the eVo-CL series than they had hoped, and thought they could slim down and just profit off selling FKs only. Maybe the size increase of the FK1 was an attempt to convert some of the EC users.
> 
> Or it could purely be, as you said, a marketing spin that makes consumers buy the product because apparently they asked for it.






FK line was popular enough that they released the mouse in two sizes. Zowie Mico has been out of stock for a while so I wonder if that will be receiving an update next.


----------



## SoFGR

as much as i ADORE the EC2 shape i'm not willing to spend over 60euros for the third time on a zowie "ergonomic" mouse

those feet are fricking huge and introduce way too much "stiction" for my liking at times !!

I'll stay with my 35euro alcor and wait for alcor+ and/or spawn v2, hoping that CM's PWM-3310 implemantion will be just as good roccat's KPM !!


----------



## cuad

Which one of these is the same size as the IME 3.0?


----------



## detto87

EC1-A is pretty similar, though it still is slightly different in shape and size.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robobot*
> 
> Don't a rather large amount of pro CS players use FK's? It seems half of them use either a Deathadder or FK.


Seems like alot of them have a tendency to use them if they're not under a contract.


----------



## bobsaget

Can someone confirm that the lowest DPI settings will still go with the red light?


----------



## MATRAKA14

There is so many versions of all those different mouses, I want to buy one and test the brand for myself, but it's so confusing without unified information. Is there any thread or page where it explains the differences between the versions and models? or maybe someone can explain me the differences? the official page lacks with detailed information.


----------



## slumpie

The sizes are different.


----------



## munchzilla

size and weight is all that differs between these two.


----------



## MATRAKA14

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> size and weight is all that differs between these two.


And what about between the EC and the K2? or the other models?


----------



## detto87

FK1 FK2 EC1-A EC2-A

Those 4 are the only mice you should care about because of the latest sensor.

Then you just have to pick yourself a shape and size.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizzl*
> 
> You do realize that the g300 is just the reference point right?


It's a shame the G300 is constantly portrayed as "0ms" when it's not the truth. If we used the Bloody mouse as a point of reference and gave it 1ms then the G300 is 2.2ms and Zowie is nearly 1 frame at 60fps. (16.66ms).

Then again I don't expect the avg population to read the graph right.


----------



## Secondo

EC2-A and EC1A confirmed to have reduced weight? EC2-A is now lighter than the FK1


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Secondo*
> 
> EC2-A and EC1A confirmed to have reduced weight? EC2-A is now lighter than the FK1


EC1A heavier by 2 grams, EC2A lighter by 6 grams, which doesn't make any sense since the EC2A is larger than previous mice.

EDIT: Veto that, zowie's pictures seem to have the same weights now? I'm guessing they were errors in the first place. Didn't make sense to make it lighter while making it larger. Looks like the EC2-A length is the *same 120mm* as the eVo.

source:


----------



## Maximillion

Pretty odd goof on their part...


----------



## MATRAKA14

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> FK1 FK2 EC1-A EC2-A
> 
> Those 4 are the only mice you should care about because of the latest sensor.
> 
> Then you just have to pick yourself a shape and size.


they are the same inside? same switches and sensor? same quality wheel?


----------



## Shiotcrock

Does the Zowie have a better shape then my Steel series Raw?


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiotcrock*
> 
> Does the Zowie have a better shape then my Steel series Raw?


There's no "better" except for personally. Just just got try them for yourself


----------



## IlIkeJuice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiotcrock*
> 
> Does the Zowie have a better shape then my Steel series Raw?


TBH, I'm not liking my EC-1 shape that much. The EC2 is quite different though.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiotcrock*
> 
> Does the Zowie have a better shape then my Steel series Raw?


Not imo.

But if the accel of the Sensei Raw is bothering you, the FK1 is a good option as it's pretty close (not exactly, but close enough imo).

For alot of people on this forum a Sensei Raw without accel with be like the 2nd coming of Christ.


----------



## Secondo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IlIkeJuice*
> 
> TBH, I'm not liking my EC-1 shape that much. The EC2 is quite different though.


With that statement I assume you have both mice. Does EC2 feel better in your hand?


----------



## SmashTV

Actually I'm gonna personally pass on this. Swapping to the EC1 from the G402 the hitscan delays are just too noticeable.


----------



## Aventadoor

Hitscan delays?

I can understand if people feel the click latency with Logitech mice compared to Zowie.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Hitscan delays?
> 
> I can understand if people feel the click latency with Logitech mice compared to Zowie.


Yeah that's what I meant. I didn't think it'd be that extreme until I actually made the switch to see. Very noticeable.


----------



## IlIkeJuice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Secondo*
> 
> With that statement I assume you have both mice. Does EC2 feel better in your hand?


I don't have an EC2. I have an FK 2013 and FK1. But I'm thinking of getting an EC2-A.

My main gripe with the EC1 is the sloped right side, and the back right side. The EC2 looks less pronounced. So yeah, I'm kinda floating this.

The second problem I had with the EC1 were the thumb buttons. Kinda spongy.

The FK1 has a better grip for me. I still want to try a mouse that fills the hand more.


----------



## oxidized

i wish i had these mice to try all these things that have been said that still sound exaggerated to me, but well...


----------



## Secondo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IlIkeJuice*
> 
> I don't have an EC2. I have an FK 2013 and FK1. But I'm thinking of getting an EC2-A.
> 
> My main gripe with the EC1 is the sloped right side, and the back right side. The EC2 looks less pronounced. So yeah, I'm kinda floating this.
> 
> The second problem I had with the EC1 were the thumb buttons. Kinda spongy.
> 
> The FK1 has a better grip for me. I still want to try a mouse that fills the hand more.


I love my FK1 but my pinky is in an awkward curled position. My EC1 feels good, but it is just a bit too big. Thinking about getting the EC2-A because of this


----------



## kackbratze

so, are they any good?









i am really not satisfied with my latest purchase (roccat kone pure military)... its slippery and the wheel is f**** up.
looking for a new one.

i have really small hands and a strange grip style between claw and palm... should I go for the fk2, the ec2 or the ec2-a?


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Secondo*
> 
> I love my FK1 but my pinky is in an awkward curled position. My EC1 feels good, but it is just a bit too big. Thinking about getting the EC2-A because of this


I find the ec1 a little too big as well. Which is weird cause my hands are 22cm. Which is probably regarded as big. It fits fine but I just prefer the feel of small mice I guess.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IlIkeJuice*
> 
> The second problem I had with the EC1 were the thumb buttons. Kinda spongy.


It's the plastic of the buttons. There is a lot of flex and over travel.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> i wish i had these mice to try all these things that have been said that still sound exaggerated to me, but well...


It should be very noticeable to people [competitive players] who play a FPS for hundreds or thousands of hours. Having a higher fresh rate of 120Hz should make it easier to spot.

Flick the mouse, press the button, then immediately after pressing the button stop moving the mouse. How much space/distance is there from the bullet impact and the resting crosshair? I think that is one way to test, but can highly influenced by other factors, at least it give an idea of the difference.

Another method to test could be by tracking a player as the move across your screen. How far ahead do you have to place your crosshair to shoot them as the run by you? Do you have to place the crosshair in front of the player model or can you place it directly on the head?

Immediately after doing those tests I improved noticeably because now I know exactly when and where I should do things with the Zowie AM. Now I just got to ingrain that into my brain so it comes naturally/effortlessly.

I should test my Diamondback to see there is a discernible difference compared to the Zowie AM.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> I find the ec1 a little too big as well. Which is weird cause my hands are 22cm. Which is probably regarded as big. It fits fine but I just prefer the feel of small mice I guess.


The EC1 is too large for me because of the width from the middle to the rear. I cannot grasp the mouse using my palm, I have to use my fingers to lift the mouse. So I have to use the standard two fingers on top palm grip otherwise the mouse will slip out of my hands when I lift it. If the width in that area was reduced I would use the EC1 over the EC2 because I like the height and length.


----------



## mksteez

I wonder when will these be up on sale on amazon


----------



## pran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mksteez*
> 
> I wonder when will these be up on sale on amazon


According to the official german retailer (caseking.de), the EC1-A will be available on 6th February. Assuming Amazon should be around the same date.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pran*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *mksteez*
> 
> I wonder when will these be up on sale on amazon
> 
> 
> 
> According to the official german retailer (caseking.de), the EC1-A will be available on 6th February. Assuming Amazon should be around the same date.
Click to expand...

Same date in Sweden for both.


----------



## wes1099

They are available in the US right now, but only from here - http://rexflo.com/ZOWIE-GEAR-EC1A-Gaming-Mouse/M/B00S9SH7C4.htm


----------



## Vikhr

You can also buy them from their Amazon storefront - http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-GEAR-EC1-A-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00SCG71CY/ref=sr_1_10?m=AW9QXMLY5QE3F&s=merchant-items&ie=UTF8&qid=1421887772&sr=1-10
http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-GEAR-EC2-A-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00SCGF03G/ref=sr_1_11?m=AW9QXMLY5QE3F&s=merchant-items&ie=UTF8&qid=1421887784&sr=1-11&pebp=1421887786555&peasin=B00SCGF03G


----------



## Nilizum

Why does the amazon website still show those product dimensions for the EC2-A (on the pics)?


----------



## cuad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vikhr*
> 
> You can also buy them from their Amazon storefront - http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-GEAR-EC1-A-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00SCG71CY/ref=sr_1_10?m=AW9QXMLY5QE3F&s=merchant-items&ie=UTF8&qid=1421887772&sr=1-10
> http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-GEAR-EC2-A-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00SCGF03G/ref=sr_1_11?m=AW9QXMLY5QE3F&s=merchant-items&ie=UTF8&qid=1421887784&sr=1-11&pebp=1421887786555&peasin=B00SCGF03G


C'mon, sir. You're on OCN. You can post a cleaner links than those.

EC1-A: http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-GEAR-EC1-A-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00SCG71CY/
EC2-A: http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-GEAR-EC2-A-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00SCGF03G/


----------



## freedumb

sheeeeeeit, whats that going to costs in canadian?


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freedumb*
> 
> sheeeeeeit, whats that going to costs in canadian?


I don't know, but zowie's official online shop has them listed at €64,90 which is about $75 USD, and the US sellers are actually selling them for less than that. I would assume the US and Canadian prices would be relatively close together.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cuad*
> 
> C'mon, sir. You're on OCN. You can post a cleaner links than those.
> 
> EC1-A: http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-GEAR-EC1-A-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00SCG71CY/
> EC2-A: http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-GEAR-EC2-A-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00SCGF03G/


You could even post hyperlinks!
EC1-A
EC2-A


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freedumb*
> 
> sheeeeeeit, whats that going to costs in canadian?


The $60 that place is charging is the normal US price for the FK1/2 so I imagine it'll be whatever those cost in Canada.


----------



## cKwok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> You could even post hyperlinks!
> EC1-A
> EC2-A


Oh perfect ships to Canada too! I bought one


----------



## pran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Same date in Sweden for both.


Correction: caseking.de just changed the date to 27th January.


----------



## cuad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *cuad*
> 
> C'mon, sir. You're on OCN. You can post a cleaner links than those.
> 
> EC1-A: http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-GEAR-EC1-A-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00SCG71CY/
> EC2-A: http://www.amazon.com/ZOWIE-GEAR-EC2-A-Gaming-Mouse/dp/B00SCGF03G/
> 
> 
> 
> You could even post hyperlinks!
> EC1-A
> EC2-A
Click to expand...

Eh, I avoid those because on some forums they're hard to discern from regular text, so people will miss them entirely.


----------



## thrillhaus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> It's not like the mice are unusable (unless you use the 3090 Zowie mice on 450CPI and 500Hz).


Can anyone elaborate on this? Is there a relevant link to this?


----------



## wes1099

Anyone planning on reviewing this mouse?


----------



## karbz

I'll do one for sure.
will get mine (EC2) approx. 27-29th. review on the weekend.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karbz*
> 
> I'll do one for sure.
> will get mine (EC2) approx. 27-29th. review on the weekend.


Cool. I will make sure to watch out for your review. I think I am going to buy one soon anyway EC1.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karbz*
> 
> I'll do one for sure.
> will get mine (EC2) approx. 27-29th. review on the weekend.


Did you by chance see how much expedited shipping costs?


----------



## Nilizum

Expedited was $16 for me.


----------



## MLJS54

Highly anticipating a review - a comparison to switch stiffness vs. the eVo would be great as well.


----------



## karbz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Did you by chance see how much expedited shipping costs?


bought it on amazon and the cost was the same for me (shipping to germany) as standard shipment e.g. 6$


----------



## pran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karbz*
> 
> bought it on amazon and the cost was the same for me (shipping to germany) as standard shipment e.g. 6$


Why did you buy it on Amazon (US? UK?) instead of caseking?


----------



## karbz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pran*
> 
> Why did you buy it on Amazon (US? UK?) instead of caseking?


1. price: 59.99 $ instead of 59.99 €?
2. when i ordered caseking still had the 2nd february as release date.
3. i dont like caseking at all


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> The world doesn't revolve around FPS gaming and changeable CPI in small increments is important for the RTS and MOBA genres *because there is no sensitivity slider*.


you're right about this and it really irks me the wrong way.
only starcraft 2 and heroes of the storm have any mousing options, im not sure about league cus i dont play it.
even valve doesn't have it for dota2 which drove me absolutely crazy when i was just trying to get away with using my WMO. theres no option to change it using console either.

and you would figure valve would have implemented it with their moba, considering they have such good mousing options in their other games like tf2, csgo, etc...

anyways im not so sure im going to pick up the ec2-a right away, might wait towards the end of the year to see if they come out with another version of it like they did with the cL.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> you're right about this and it really irks me the wrong way.
> only starcraft 2 and heroes of the storm have any mousing options, im not sure about league cus i dont play it.
> even valve doesn't have it for dota2 which drove me absolutely crazy when i was just trying to get away with using my WMO. theres no option to change it using console either.
> 
> and you would figure valve would have implemented it with their moba, considering they have such good mousing options in their other games like tf2, csgo, etc...
> 
> anyways im not so sure im going to pick up the ec2-a right away, might wait towards the end of the year to see if they come out with another version of it like they did with the cL.


They might come out with another version, but it will be nothing like the CL. The EC1-A and EC2-A are already have the same coating and similar scroll wheel to the CL.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> They might come out with another version, but it will be nothing like the CL. The EC1-A and EC2-A are already have the same coating and similar scroll wheel to the CL.


man i just said like another version, _like_. i'm not asking for the cL again.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> man i just said like another version, _like_. i'm not asking for the cL again.


Yeah, I know. I just don't know what they would change about it. Maybe they will take suggestions from mouse enthusiasts and put those suggestions into another version of the EC series.


----------



## cKwok

For me expedited shipping was cheaper than standard shipping for some reason. I bought it from Amazon, it was like $67 CAD in total. Shipping & handling was like $7. This was from Amazon US shipping to Canada


----------



## wes1099

3-5 Business days standard shipping within the continental US. Not bad.


----------



## freedumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cKwok*
> 
> For me expedited shipping was cheaper than standard shipping for some reason. I bought it from Amazon, it was like $67 CAD in total. Shipping & handling was like $7. This was from Amazon US shipping to Canada


$25 in shipping for me, screw that.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *freedumb*
> 
> $25 in shipping for me, screw that.


$65 in shipping for me.

RIP


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: discoprince



Originally Posted by *discoprince* 


> you're right about this and it really irks me the wrong way.
> only starcraft 2 and heroes of the storm have any mousing options, im not sure about league cus i dont play it.
> even valve doesn't have it for dota2 which drove me absolutely crazy when i was just trying to get away with using my WMO. theres no option to change it using console either.
> 
> and you would figure valve would have implemented it with their moba, considering they have such good mousing options in their other games like tf2, csgo, etc...
> 
> anyways im not so sure im going to pick up the ec2-a right away, might wait towards the end of the year to see if they come out with another version of it like they did with the cL.






You don't want to use the in game sensitivity slider because you will lose 1:1 tracking where 1 count = 1 pixel moved. This is why being able to change CPI is important and why full sensor functionality is important. PMW-3310 can adjust CPI in ~50cpi increments which is needed to fine tune your sensitivity in any game that uses a cursor. You don't make a mouse for all pro gamers if that functionality is locked out. You're just making a mouse for FPS games.

In 3D games where you rotate a camera you can adjust sensitivity so amount of rotation per count is changed. CPI is therefore not as important here because you can adjust in game sensitivity to get your desired distance for a 360 degree turn.


----------



## p0ps

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> You don't want to use the in game sensitivity slider because you will lose 1:1 tracking where 1 count = 1 pixel moved. This is why being able to change CPI is important and why full sensor functionality is important. PMW-3310 can adjust CPI in ~50cpi increments which is needed to fine tune your sensitivity in any game that uses a cursor. You don't make a mouse for all pro gamers if that functionality is locked out. You're just making a mouse for FPS games.
> 
> In 3D games where you rotate a camera you can adjust sensitivity so amount of rotation per count is changed. CPI is therefore not as important here because you can adjust in game sensitivity to get your desired distance for a 360 degree turn.


All the other mice with the 3310 are customizable (except finalmouse 2015) so if you want customization get one of them. Zowie mice are for fps. If you don't play fps and need to fine tune the CPI why would you even consider a zowie mouse??? It's like taking a track day car with no AC cross country and asking why doesn't it have AC?


----------



## povohat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> You don't make a mouse for all pro gamers if that functionality is locked out. You're just making a mouse for FPS games.


Given the naming scheme of Zowie mice (initials of CS players, except the CL series for Quake 3/4/Live pro Anton 'cooller' Singov), you could definitely make a case that they are selling mice for FPS gamers.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> You don't want to use the in game sensitivity slider because you will lose 1:1 tracking where 1 count = 1 pixel moved. This is why being able to change CPI is important and why full sensor functionality is important. PMW-3310 can adjust CPI in ~50cpi increments which is needed to fine tune your sensitivity in any game that uses a cursor. You don't make a mouse for all pro gamers if that functionality is locked out. You're just making a mouse for FPS games.
> 
> In 3D games where you rotate a camera you can adjust sensitivity so amount of rotation per count is changed. CPI is therefore not as important here because you can adjust in game sensitivity to get your desired distance for a 360 degree turn.


ah thanks for explaining that.
+REP


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *povohat*
> 
> Given the naming scheme of Zowie mice (initials of CS players, except the CL series for Quake 3/4/Live pro Anton 'cooller' Singov), you could definitely make a case that they are selling mice for FPS gamers.


AM - Abdisamad "Spawn" Mohamed
EC - Emil "HeatoN" Christensen
FK - Filip "NEO" Kubski
CL - Anton "cooller" Singov

Literally all LAN based hardcore FPS guys. On top of that the only mouse that was geared towards RTS games had different types of DPI Steps 400/800/1600, the MiCO. Now they are expanding there FPS line with those steps so you can now play rts with those mice.


----------



## espn

Who would put two super big pic in official website and take forever to load? Just this mistake let met think they don't do stuff serious at all. I don't see any other big game brand make mistake like this.


----------



## Aventadoor

I just ordered a EC2-A, in hopes of getting it before february








From Maxfps


----------



## IlIkeJuice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> 
> You don't want to use the in game sensitivity slider because you will lose 1:1 tracking where 1 count = 1 pixel moved. This is why being able to change CPI is important and why full sensor functionality is important. PMW-3310 can adjust CPI in ~50cpi increments which is needed to fine tune your sensitivity in any game that uses a cursor. You don't make a mouse for all pro gamers if that functionality is locked out. You're just making a mouse for FPS games.
> 
> In 3D games where you rotate a camera you can adjust sensitivity so amount of rotation per count is changed. CPI is therefore not as important here because you can adjust in game sensitivity to get your desired distance for a 360 degree turn.


I'm not sure where you get the 1:1 ratio from. The values reported by devices are completely arbitrary. They are 32 bits signed integers in RAW mode, for X and Y velocities, and therefore the in-game scaling would be also arbitrary. That makes the CPI vs in-game settings debate kinda moot.

Unless DOTA2 uses the old crummy WM_MOUSEMOVE notification which reports absolute mouse screen position, which wouldn't surprise me TBH. Then yes, more control over the CPI would make sense. In that case, you would want to look at your windows sensitivity? In any case, with a low DPI, if you want fast movements, you WILL have pixel skip, it's just physics. So you have to make a choice between pixel skip and mouse speed.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *p0ps*
> 
> All the other mice with the 3310 are customizable (except finalmouse 2015) so if you want customization get one of them. Zowie mice are for fps. If you don't play fps and need to fine tune the CPI why would you even consider a zowie mouse??? It's like taking a track day car with no AC cross country and asking why doesn't it have AC?


It doesn't negatively affect FPS players if Zowie were to create some optional software which is what people have pointed out numerous times. As to why someone who plays RTS/MOBA would ever want to use a Zowie mouse, two reasons: shape, and the vast majority of people actually do play more than one game/genre. And they aren't like track day cars at all; they're barely different from any other mouse other than using huanos. And amusingly, in some regards they're actually worse than some of those cross-country mice due to things like click delay and reportedly having a lesser 3310 implementation.

I like Zowie, but their whole FPS marketing I don't They aren't a special company and should stop alienating a group of people for zero reason. And I don't even play RTS/MOBA, I just think it's silly.


----------



## Nightwing95

I was kind of hoping for a white mouse. Does anyone reckon they'll have any new white models out in the future?


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> It doesn't negatively affect FPS players if Zowie were to create some optional software which is what people have pointed out numerous times. As to why someone who plays RTS/MOBA would ever want to use a Zowie mouse, two reasons: shape, and the vast majority of people actually do play more than one game/genre. And they aren't like track day cars at all; they're barely different from any other mouse other than using huanos. And amusingly, in some regards they're actually worse than some of those cross-country mice due to things like click delay and reportedly having a lesser 3310 implementation.
> 
> I like Zowie, but their whole FPS marketing is largely BS. They aren't a special company and should stop alienating a group of people for zero reason. And I don't even play RTS/MOBA, I just think it's silly.


Majority of old school rts players used the Logitech Mouse Optical and the G1. Both of which either have 400 dpi or 800 dpi and now we have 1080 monitors. All they are doing is using 800 dpi or 1600 dpi now.

Old school FPS players were using wmo, imo, 3.0 @ 400 dpi. Since resolution has no effect they simply throw their mice to 400 and adjust sensitivity, even if a lot of times it doesn't have an advantage (Such as the old 3g mice better at 1800dpi and the old ec series better at 2300).

There are plenty of other companies out there that give you full dpi control and software out the ass... and in logitechs case has a better build quality.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nightwing95*
> 
> I was kind of hoping for a white mouse. Does anyone reckon they'll have any new white models out in the future?


I use a White HHKB so I know that feeling, and I do have a White EC2 EVO. Maybe someone could check to see if the shells are interchangeable? Then just buy someones old shell for dirt cheap since everyone will be upgrading to the 3310.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creizai*
> 
> so you can now play rts with those mice.


true but you can only really RTS with the EC's, my experience playing RTS/Moba with the vanilla FK and FK1 is that while the shapes are great the main button clicks are not ideal for RTS.

The EC's offer a much lighter clicking experience for RTS however I'd say its still not the ideal RTS mouse for most people (and I love the ec2 shape). the only time i ever seen a competitive gamer use a zowie mouse for rts/moba, besides the mico, was "rOtk" from Vici Gaming a chinese dota 2 team. he used a white gloss ec1, could have been a 2 but the fact is, hes the only one i've seen use anything from zowie as far as mobas and their mice go.

i'd like to see them refresh the mico but i don't think they ever will.


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> true but you can only really RTS with the EC's, my experience playing RTS/Moba with the vanilla FK and FK1 is that while the shapes are great the main button clicks are not ideal for RTS.
> 
> The EC's offer a much lighter clicking experience for RTS however I'd say its still not the ideal RTS mouse for most people (and I love the ec2 shape). the only time i ever seen a competitive gamer use a zowie mouse for rts/moba, besides the mico, was "rOtk" from Vici Gaming a chinese dota 2 team. he used a white gloss ec1, could have been a 2 but the fact is, hes the only one i've seen use anything from zowie as far as mobas and their mice go.
> 
> i'd like to see them refresh the mico but i don't think they ever will.


Yeah those older FK / EC are totally only geared towards FPS. That's why the better sensor with new steps makes them actually viable. Yeah I don't think using the old 1150 / 2300 steps were all that great at all for RTS. When I RTS I go straight for a finger tip from my typical FPS claw. I actually used the MiCO for the longest time for both FPS/RTS, I never once got the sensor jump bug in game.


----------



## p0ps

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> It doesn't negatively affect FPS players if Zowie were to create some optional software which is what people have pointed out numerous times. As to why someone who plays RTS/MOBA would ever want to use a Zowie mouse, two reasons: shape, and the vast majority of people actually do play more than one game/genre. And they aren't like track day cars at all; they're barely different from any other mouse other than using huanos. And amusingly, in some regards they're actually worse than some of those cross-country mice due to things like click delay and reportedly having a lesser 3310 implementation.
> 
> I like Zowie, but their whole FPS marketing I don't. They aren't a special company and should stop alienating a group of people for zero reason. And I don't even play RTS/MOBA, I just think it's silly.


If zowie can't even get their act together and invest time and money to fix the click latency and the scroll wheel imagine how s**tty their software would be (and it would add 10$ to the price or they would cheap out on something to keep the price). Flashable firmware would be awesome thought. I have two zowie mice fk1 and evo cl and they are like TVRs no traction control no abs. Mice are like p0rn there is a mouse for everyone. Speaking of p0rn I was watching it with my roccat kpm and when I accidentally hit the DPI button a loud epic sounding voice shouted "800 DPI" I almost fell off my chair )) it has been off since. I think the Finalmouse 2015 could be the ultimate zowie killer if the final price would be 50-60$.


----------



## p0ps

I'm in love with zowie costumer service
BTW ))


----------



## pran

Why do people need more than 400 DPI in mobas on 1080p?


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *p0ps*
> 
> Mice are like p0rn there is a mouse for everyone. Speaking of p0rn I was watching it with my roccat kpm and when I accidentally hit the DPI button a loud epic sounding voice shouted "800 DPI" I almost fell off my chair )) it has been off since.


Careful about being caught with your hands down there, where it shouldn't be







.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *p0ps*
> 
> Speaking of p0rn I was watching it with my roccat kpm and when I accidentally hit the DPI button a loud epic sounding voice shouted "800 DPI" I almost fell off my chair )) it has been off since.


----------



## SoFGR

Quote:


> just ran click latency test against my g302 and g502 and the zowie is slower by 3-5ms. are you a superhuman that can discern mouse latency at the few ms level?


http://www.esreality.com/post/2703373/zowie-gear-releases-ec1-a-and-ec2-a/#pid2706115

can anybody confirm this ????


----------



## cuad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoFGR*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> just ran click latency test against my g302 and g502 and the zowie is slower by 3-5ms. are you a superhuman that can discern mouse latency at the few ms level?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.esreality.com/post/2703373/zowie-gear-releases-ec1-a-and-ec2-a/#pid2706115
> 
> can anybody confirm this ????
Click to expand...

I think that's BS. As far as I know, the only way for us laymen to test button lag is with online reaction time games, but those can only give you a vague idea of which mouse is faster (if the true latency difference is big enough) and cannot tell you if a mouse is "3-5 ms slower".


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cuad*
> 
> I think that's BS. As far as I know, the only way for us laymen to test button lag is with online reaction time games, but those can only give you a vague idea of which mouse is faster (if the true latency difference is big enough) and cannot tell you if a mouse is "3-5 ms slower".


http://www.bloody.tw/en/download.php

Use the "Mouse Click Response Speed Testing Software", it allows for a relative measurement between two mice.


----------



## JustinSane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> http://www.bloody.tw/en/download.php
> 
> Use the "Mouse Click Response Speed Testing Software", it allows for a relative measurement between two mice.


Really looking forward to one of you with the new EC1/2-a and a Logitech to run the test for us. If it really only is 2-3 slower I might pick one up.


----------



## Johan450

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> why would you buy a mouse only cause it's used by a pro player, it's the most stupid thing ever


Works in sc2, then again 90% of the koreans use a MiCO or a g9x/g100s.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> http://www.bloody.tw/en/download.php
> 
> Use the "Mouse Click Response Speed Testing Software", it allows for a relative measurement between two mice.


How does it work when the mice have different switches where one mouse requires a little more force to initiate?


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> It doesn't negatively affect FPS players if Zowie were to create some optional software which is what people have pointed out numerous times. As to why someone who plays RTS/MOBA would ever want to use a Zowie mouse, two reasons: shape, and the vast majority of people actually do play more than one game/genre. And they aren't like track day cars at all; they're barely different from any other mouse other than using huanos. And amusingly, in some regards they're actually worse than some of those cross-country mice due to things like click delay and reportedly having a lesser 3310 implementation.
> 
> I like Zowie, but their whole FPS marketing is largely BS. They aren't a special company and should stop alienating a group of people for zero reason. And I don't even play RTS/MOBA, I just think it's silly.


Zowie mainly gets alot of mice sold imo due to the faults of others. A few examples:

FK1 vs SS Sensei ("laser" sensors with built in acceleration)
Razer Synapse: Drivers that make mouse performance worse (so far the case on Abyssys 2014 and my DA Black Edition, causes "smoothing" on a software level)
Then combine that (not everyone agrees, but this is a generalization) with the fact that Zowie does release interesting shapes that people like = Sells like hot cakes.

If SS would release a Sensei with a 3310 or 3366, they would no doubt lose alot of FK series users to Steelseries.

People are annoyed with what other brands tried to offer but failed and then Zowie comes around and offers something more "simple" but in a sense they don't mess it up.

Similarily if the new G302 had the fusion engine of the G402, alot of people requiring high PCS would buy that mouse instead of a Zowie.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Similarily if the new G302 had the fusion engine of the G402, alot of people requiring high PCS would buy that mouse instead of a Zowie.


I wouldn't buy the G302 because of the shape and heavy weight (for the size it is). The sensor is decent, definitely not worth buying (for me) a G302 just based on that. If I was going to buy a mouse only for the sensor it would be the G502. I rather have a FK1 over the G302.


----------



## dangerteeth

Got my EC2-A today. First time with a Zowie mouse and love it so far. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask!


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dangerteeth*
> 
> Got my EC2-A today. First time with a Zowie mouse and love it so far. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask!


Lucky Devil, getting it FIRST before any of us get a chance to even read about it.

Please take some underneath shots because I want to see it's never regions up close and personal







.


----------



## povohat

There have been some unconfirmed reports that the click delay is lower on the new EC models. Can you do a Bloody Mouse Shooting Test against a known mouse, preferably one with very low click latency?


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dangerteeth*
> 
> Got my EC2-A today. First time with a Zowie mouse and love it so far. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask!


I wonder if they were using hauno blues now since both FKs are now too.


----------



## zealord

Hmm I could go for a new mouse. Mine is already 1 year in use. This one looks good









keep em user experience reports coming mates


----------



## cKwok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dangerteeth*
> 
> Got my EC2-A today. First time with a Zowie mouse and love it so far. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask!


Could you please take some photos for us? Mine is coming Wednesday







I'll post some pictures then too! and maybe a short video.


----------



## zealord

are they coming with an extra pair of skates/glides like the old ones did? (did they?)


----------



## sonskusa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> are they coming with an extra pair of skates/glides like the old ones did? (did they?)


yup, comes with 1 set of extra mouse feet, a sticker w new logo, and a small booklet telling you the dpi/polling info they used to put on the side of the box.


----------



## dangerteeth

I apologize in advance for the crappy cell phone pics. If you want more angles let me know.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Please take some underneath shots because I want to see it's never regions up close and personal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






Quote:


> Originally Posted by *povohat*
> 
> There have been some unconfirmed reports that the click delay is lower on the new EC models. Can you do a Bloody Mouse Shooting Test against a known mouse, preferably one with very low click latency?


I had a g100s on hand so that's what I used. When I tested the EC2's left click, the g100s was an average of 28.75ms faster, when I tested the EC2's right click the g100s was an average of 9.26ms faster. You can draw your own conclusions from this, but in my opinion all this tests is the difference in distance between the 2 mice's clicks, not actual click registration. In the pic below, you'll see the EC2's left click is much farther off than it's right click, causing the perceived "latency" in the software.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!






Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creizai*
> 
> I wonder if they were using hauno blues now since both FKs are now too.


No clue, and I don't feel like prying my new mouse open to find out. They feel great if that's any consolation. The left click is very slightly harder to actuate than the right click. The right click feels near identical to the omrons in my g100s.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cKwok*
> 
> Could you please take some photos for us? Mine is coming Wednesday
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll post some pictures then too! and maybe a short video.





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dangerteeth*
> 
> I apologize in advance for the crappy cell phone pics. If you want more angles let me know.


I just love your photos, thank you for being so nice here. Most would ignore me but you didn't, you've inspired me to actually buy an EC2-A as well









Only problem now is to wait for PCCG to sell the model here in Convict Town.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> I just love your photos, thank you for being so nice here. Most would ignore me but you didn't, you've inspired me to actually buy an EC2-A as well
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Only problem now is to wait for PCCG to sell the model here in Convict Town.


haha guessing you didn't jump on the $66 shipping from Amazon either?


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> haha guessing you didn't jump on the $66 shipping from Amazon either?


Amazon is well known as a rip-off in shipping and they're proud of that fact. Basically Amazon is ONLY for the American market hence such low shipping costs enjoyed by them.

I know that PCCG will often deliver the latest gear before long, maybe another couple of weeks or so we'll be able to purchase it here as well. Have learned now to be patient when buying anything that is released first elsewhere.

Years of being scalped in shipping because I live here in this place, has forced me to save my money for local purchases only.


----------



## espn

Honesy I cannot tell the different of the looking of this brand mouse. All like over 90% the same.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Amazon is well known as a rip-off in shipping and they're proud of that fact. Basically Amazon is ONLY for the American market hence such low shipping costs enjoyed by them.
> 
> I know that PCCG will often deliver the latest gear before long, maybe another couple of weeks or so we'll be able to purchase it here as well. Have learned now to be patient when buying anything that is released first elsewhere.
> 
> Years of being scalped in shipping because I live here in this place, has forced me to save my money for local purchases only.


They aren't too bad. Reflex-o seems to be taking advantage or don't know how to ship properly. Shipping from Amazon is usually around $12, so the $66 shipping currently being offered really surprised and upset me.

What's funny is that I bought an air purifier (fairly large) from Amazon last week and shipping cost $52. Apparently it's more difficult and costs more to ship a computer mouse.


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *povohat*
> 
> There have been some unconfirmed reports that the click delay is lower on the new EC models. Can you do a Bloody Mouse Shooting Test against a known mouse, preferably one with very low click latency?


Like to see this too, apparently someone on esreality said he tested against the g302 and it showed the ec2-a was only slower by 3-5ms. While his fk was slower by 15-21ms, which is what you would expect.

Maybe zowie finally fixed it?


----------



## Kyal

Shipping for me(rural south australia) was only $6 usd, =/


----------



## zealord

Alright then. Looks like I've found my new mouse. I had the old EC1 and loved it, but I made and whoopsie and screwed it up rendering it useless. This is basically the same but with improvements. Let's see when they hit the store I'm going to order one.


----------



## dangerteeth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> Like to see this too, apparently someone on esreality said he tested against the g302 and it showed the ec2-a was only slower by 3-5ms. While his fk was slower by 15-21ms, which is what you would expect.
> 
> Maybe zowie finally fixed it?


RESULTS FROM THE BLOODY MOUSE CLICK TEST
(Copied from my previous post):
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dangerteeth*
> 
> I had a g100s on hand so that's what I used. When I tested the EC2's left click, the g100s was an average of 28.75ms faster, when I tested the EC2's right click the g100s was an average of 9.26ms faster. You can draw your own conclusions from this, but in my opinion all this tests is the difference in distance between the 2 mice's clicks, not actual click registration. In the pic below, you'll see the EC2's left click is much farther off than it's right click, causing the perceived "latency" in the software.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


I'd also like to reiterate that I don't think this software is doing anything of value. As it stands (based on my tests) all it does is measure is click height difference/stiffness. The only click "latency" anyone is experiencing is due to lack of muscle memory and not having less resistant omrons.


----------



## boogdud

I'm just happy they got rid of that obnoxious coating from the ec2 evo. I hated how slippery it felt to dry hands, it actually felt uncomfortable to me.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> I'm just happy they got rid of that obnoxious coating from the ec2 evo. I hated how slippery it felt to dry hands, it actually felt uncomfortable to me.


it was slippery enough to me that my hands started sweating much more which turned it into some sort of non grippy old overused rubber feeling that was coated with brown soap on the EC1 eVo for me


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dangerteeth*
> 
> RESULTS FROM THE BLOODY MOUSE CLICK TEST
> (Copied from my previous post):
> I'd also like to reiterate that I don't think this software is doing anything of value. As it stands (based on my tests) all it does is measure is click height difference/stiffness. The only click "latency" anyone is experiencing is due to lack of muscle memory and not having less resistant omrons.


if you smash them fast and hard enough, any button resistance is nill and void, Yes you might put dents in it.. maybe some tape or whatever over the buttons so you dont break whatever coating is on them, then just slam those suckers together as if you just got owned by a 12 year old ragekid with the letters thzio in it at least


----------



## c4rm0

boom ordered it just now. I have the EC2 Evo and love the shape but hate the coating so hopefully this will be perfect


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> if you smash them fast and hard enough, any button resistance is nill and void, Yes you might put dents in it.. maybe some tape or whatever over the buttons so you dont break whatever coating is on them, then just slam those suckers together as if you just got owned by a 12 year old ragekid with the letters thzio in it at least


I still doubt the test is accurate but when I tried to test a few of my mice for button latency I found that slamming the buttons together uncomfortably hard was the only way to get a somewhat consistent result.

During my highly scientific test of slamming mice together like a lunatic I found that my g100s was faster than the handful of other mice that I tested. The G400 was only around 0.7ms slower. Nothing else was close to these two Logitech mice.


----------



## Xanatos

If people are able to repeat the same results, it must mean something then.

Where can I buy the EC2-A right now?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dangerteeth*
> 
> I'd also like to reiterate that I don't think this software is doing anything of value. As it stands (based on my tests) all it does is measure is click height difference/stiffness. The only click "latency" anyone is experiencing is due to lack of muscle memory and not having less resistant omrons.


http://utmalesoldiers.blogspot.jp/2013/02/114.html

That is how you test it.


----------



## dangerteeth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> http://utmalesoldiers.blogspot.jp/2013/02/114.html
> 
> That is how you test it.


That makes much more sense. Well if anyone has the means/know how to do that setup, I'd be interested in seeing the results.


----------



## detto87

People still discussing the input latency of Zowie mice, meanwhile "happy" (probably the strongest player at the MLG tournament) rocked with his EC2-15ms-button-lag-mouse on a QCK Heavy.









gg guys


----------



## wes1099

I just need a little more $ then I will buy an EC1-A to replace my 3 year old Deathadder. I can't wait to get one because my current mouse is super worn out. The Teflon pads on the bottom are almost non-existent, and the entire mouse has developed a slippery texture.


----------



## Crizzl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> People still discussing the input latency of Zowie mice, meanwhile "happy" (probably the strongest player at the MLG tournament) rocked with his EC2-15ms-button-lag-mouse on a QCK Heavy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gg guys


A lot of pros use zowie mice. I don't think anybody is saying you can't use them it's just good to be aware of the fact if you're very sensitive to stuff like that. Additionally I think it's important to remember that they're playing on LAN so there is minimal latency in terms of ping. It starts to build up if you play at 50ms ping and factor in all the other things such as monitor and so on.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> People still discussing the input latency of Zowie mice, meanwhile "happy" (probably the strongest player at the MLG tournament) rocked with his EC2-15ms-button-lag-mouse on a QCK Heavy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gg guys


It shouldn't mean anything for sprayers compared to "tappers" and snipers.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Amazon is well known as a rip-off in shipping and they're proud of that fact. Basically Amazon is ONLY for the American market hence such low shipping costs enjoyed by them.
> 
> I know that PCCG will often deliver the latest gear before long, maybe another couple of weeks or so we'll be able to purchase it here as well. Have learned now to be patient when buying anything that is released first elsewhere.
> 
> Years of being scalped in shipping because I live here in this place, has forced me to save my money for local purchases only.


What are you talking about? I got charged for a mouse USD$7 shippinh while in australia the mice are MORE expensive and PCCG charges AUD$15 for shipping within melbourne :/ Even for mousepads


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Amazon is well known as a rip-off in shipping and they're proud of that fact. Basically Amazon is ONLY for the American market hence such low shipping costs enjoyed by them.
> 
> I know that PCCG will often deliver the latest gear before long, maybe another couple of weeks or so we'll be able to purchase it here as well. Have learned now to be patient when buying anything that is released first elsewhere.
> 
> Years of being scalped in shipping because I live here in this place, has forced me to save my money for local purchases only.


Amazon has nothing to do with the shipping of the EC1/2-A mice. The mice are not sold by amazon, they are sold by Rexflo, and Rexflo is the one charging the shipping. If you check the Rexflo site, shipping there is the same as Amazon. If an item is sold by Amazon, 99% of the time it will have free shipping (at least in the US). I am guessing that the reason Rexflo does not offer free shipping is because they are a relatively small company compared to other online retailers, and they can not afford to offer free shipping.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I still doubt the test is accurate but when I tried to test a few of my mice for button latency I found that slamming the buttons together uncomfortably hard was the only way to get a somewhat consistent result.
> 
> During my highly scientific test of slamming mice together like a lunatic I found that my g100s was faster than the handful of other mice that I tested. The G400 was only around 0.7ms slower. Nothing else was close to these two Logitech mice.


I did mean that one should slam them together as if trying to break them to get the right results, only way to really get rid of the force needed to actuate the switch


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> It shouldn't mean anything for sprayers compared to "tappers" and snipers.


Mouse response time is just as important for 'sprayers' as it is for 'tappers' or 'snipers'. In games like CS:GO where recoil/spread control is important, you heavily rely on when the gun starts shooting to time your compensation for the recoil/spread. It is also important in MOBA's and MMORPG's like WoW and Dota2 where timing an action is key to success.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> http://utmalesoldiers.blogspot.jp/2013/02/114.html
> 
> That is how you test it.


That is exactly what I was thinking. It's a ballsy move on a brand new $60 mouse, but it sounds like something I would probably do if I really cared to know if one mouse was a few milliseconds faster than another.


----------



## Nilizum

So is the length 123mm or 120mm for the EC2-A? Why are these weird dimension errors Zowie keeps making? Did they forget how to math?


----------



## Nilizum

Sensor position of 120 is 63.4mm. If it is 123mm, it is 64.985mm. Pretty optimal sensor position for EC2-A.


EC1 Evo CL sensor position. Pretty Sure EC1-A reflects this. Not very optimal, but doable.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> People still discussing the input latency of Zowie mice, meanwhile "happy" (probably the strongest player at the MLG tournament) rocked with his EC2-15ms-button-lag-mouse on a QCK Heavy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gg guys


Happy's play style is to run out of cover, duck and spray. He does that regardless if he is going to die. Not many people do that, so it surprises people, which gets him kills. It doesn't always work, but when it does he looks like the MVP. He can play that way because he is the IGL, when he dies he can still contribute.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> People still discussing the input latency of Zowie mice, meanwhile "happy" (probably the strongest player at the MLG tournament) rocked with his EC2-15ms-button-lag-mouse on a QCK Heavy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gg guys


Your point?


----------



## brocoolio

I just received my Zowie EC2-A and it has nearly perfect build quality. Left and right mouse click feel identical and everything is solidly built. Feels as good as my FK2014.

However, when I click my left mouse firmly, the left mouse click touches the bottom of the mouse like so:



Anybody with an EC2 or EC1 have this problem before? This bothers me a lot and is the only problem from a nearly perfect mouse.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brocoolio*
> 
> I just received my Zowie EC2-A and it has nearly perfect build quality. Left and right mouse click feel identical and everything is solidly built. Feels as good as my FK2014.
> 
> However, when I click my left mouse firmly, the left mouse click touches the bottom of the mouse like so:
> 
> 
> 
> Anybody with an EC2 or EC1 have this problem before? This bothers me a lot and is the only problem from a nearly perfect mouse.


I don't expect their mouse is perfect since their website is so non professional.


----------



## exitone

Don't expect much from Zowie, they don't bother to fix minor issues on their mice.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Your point?


My point is that the button lag point is hilarious when you see how it doesn't affect the players.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Happy's play style is to run out of cover, duck and spray. He does that regardless if he is going to die. Not many people do that, so it surprises people, which gets him kills. It doesn't always work, but when it does he looks like the MVP. He can play that way because he is the IGL, when he dies he can still contribute.


Are you serious?








You say that as if button lag isn't imprortant to him because he sprays. You probably should watch the VODs then because you missed out on his awp shots and kioshima's 1taps, also with an EC2.


----------



## espn

Their website is so basic that anyone knows some HTML can create within a day, how to expect they do any serious work about a hardware.


----------



## Vorsplummi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> My point is that the button lag point is hilarious when you see how it doesn't affect the players.
> Are you serious?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You say that as if button lag isn't imprortant to him because he sprays. You probably should watch the VODs then because you missed out on his awp shots and kioshima's 1taps, also with an EC2.


Happy had 1.17 rating in the BO3 finals against NiP in Aspen. And he is the IGL. He basically outfragged everyone in NiP.

f0rest is also using EC2 and he is one of the best pistol players and tap shooters. But maybe he is getting so old that he can't even feel the inferior click latency.

Funny enough xizt switched from IME 3.0 back to Ikari which is arguable inferior to intellimouse. Most people use what is comfortable for them. It's the enthusiast who start to searching for flaws even when they don't really get affected by them. But it's nice to cry about something.

I've read about the click latency tests and it's clear Zowie has almost double the latency compared to Logitech. It is something I will follow in the future and it would be nice if Zowie can improve MCU related latency issues but it's not a deal breaker for me. I literally forget all the "flaws" in my FK when I jump in the game.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vorsplummi*
> 
> Happy had 1.17 rating in the BO3 finals against NiP in Aspen. And he is the IGL. He basically outfragged everyone in NiP.
> 
> f0rest is also using EC2 and he is one of the best pistol players and tap shooters. But maybe he is getting so old that he can't even feel the inferior click latency.
> 
> _Funny enough xizt switched from IME 3.0 back to Ikari which is arguable inferior to intellimouse. Most people use what is comfortable for them. It's the enthusiast who start to searching for flaws even when they don't really get affected by them. But it's nice to cry about something._
> 
> I've read about the click latency tests and it's clear Zowie has almost double the latency compared to Logitech. It is something I will follow in the future and it would be nice if Zowie can improve MCU related latency issues but it's not a deal breaker for me. I literally forget all the "flaws" in my FK when I jump in the game.


I agree heavily. I used to play CS 1.6 some years ago on amateur level with tournaments and LANs and won some money and was pretty good and my teammates aswell.
It really doesn't matter that much with what mouse you play. All my teammates had different mice and we all were on roughly the same level. I had about 15 different mice in this timespan and be it Intelli 1.1, intelli 3.0, Steelseries Kinzu, Xai, Logitech or Deathadder it really didn't matter. Had good and bad games with every single one of them.
Taking the mouse you feel comfortable with is really the best option by far.

Don't get my wrong I don't mean that you can use a trackball or a steering wheel, but _most_ modern and even old mice like the intelli/logitech are good enough for even pro level.

I wish someone would've given me this advice 7-8 years ago so I wouldn't have wasted good money on about 15 different mice throughout that time


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> My point is that the button lag point is hilarious when you see how it doesn't affect the players.
> Are you serious?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You say that as if button lag isn't imprortant to him because he sprays. You probably should watch the VODs then because you missed out on his awp shots and kioshima's 1taps, also with an EC2.


When you zoom in with an AWP you have a lot more to aim at. Unless the latency is in the 30ms range it doesn't affect you much in that scenario.

When people constantly strafe dodge is where latency really causes issues. If you are good at perfectly tracking moving players the latency won't be very noticeable. It's more noticeable when you are trying to quickly flick shot...

It feels disconnected when playing on a 120-144Hz monitor (with very low input latency) and mat_queue_mode 0. I should compare my Diamondback to the Zowie AM to see how it feels.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vorsplummi*
> 
> Funny enough xizt switched from IME 3.0 back to Ikari which is arguable inferior to intellimouse. Most people use what is comfortable for them. It's the enthusiast who start to searching for flaws even when they don't really get affected by them. But it's nice to cry about something.


The Ikari has a higher malfunction speed, 1000Hz and less button latency than the Intellimouse.

If those enthusiasts didn't want better we wouldn't have a sensor like the 3366.


----------



## ramraze

The point why the click delay is brought up is to get Zowie to fix them, not to whine. Those who condemn it should seriously understand that this is an enthusiast forum, so we study, learn, share our experiences and criticize. The thing is this issue is quantifiable, so there is no point in denying it. If you think it doesn't affect the game and is imagination, then GG and go to fanboy forums. Of course the effect that a click delay has on so-called pro players varies on the game and playstyle, even weapon of choice.
Like a good mouse, it can improve a person's experience. It won't make a bad player pro.
Yes, those who use the ec2 evo are good players, buf they could arguably be even better with a smaller click delay.
If we criticize companies, we can possibly all benefit from it.
To deny the issues exist is moronic. For example, If you can't feel the difference between 60 hz and 120 hz then go play sims.


----------



## fr33Ze

I just ordered zowie fk1 i hope i'm not gonna have a bad scroll wheel that alot of people talks about it, i hope i made good decision.


----------



## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> The point why the click delay is brought up is to get Zowie to fix them, not to whine. Those who condemn it should seriously understand that this is an enthusiast forum, so we study, learn, share our experiences and criticize. The thing is this issue is quantifiable, so there is no point in denying it. If you think it doesn't affect the game and is imagination, then GG and go to fanboy forums. Of course the effect that a click delay has on so-called pro players varies on the game and playstyle, even weapon of choice.
> Like a good mouse, it can improve a person's experience. It won't make a bad player pro.
> Yes, those who use the ec2 evo are good players, buf they could arguably be even better with a smaller click delay.
> If we criticize companies, we can possibly all benefit from it.
> To deny the issues exist is moronic. For example, If you can't feel the difference between 60 hz and 120 hz then go play sims.


i reckon that is a matter of habit, and i also think that if nobody had brought up that story of click delay, this drama wouldn't even exist, 20ms seconds is nothing, no human hand could be that fast (it's different from what the eyes can see), so if you people notice this delay, it's either just your unconscious mind telling you that the mouse has click delay, only cause you read it somewhere, or they're simply far more than 20/30ms


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> The point why the click delay is brought up is to get Zowie to fix them, not to whine. Those who condemn it should seriously understand that this is an enthusiast forum, so we study, learn, share our experiences and criticize. The thing is this issue is quantifiable, so there is no point in denying it. If you think it doesn't affect the game and is imagination, then GG and go to fanboy forums. Of course the effect that a click delay has on so-called pro players varies on the game and playstyle, even weapon of choice.
> Like a good mouse, it can improve a person's experience. It won't make a bad player pro.
> Yes, those who use the ec2 evo are good players, buf they could arguably be even better with a smaller click delay.
> If we criticize companies, we can possibly all benefit from it.
> To deny the issues exist is moronic. For example, If you can't feel the difference between 60 hz and 120 hz then go play sims.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> i reckon that is a matter of habit, and i also think that if nobody had brought up that story of click delay, this drama wouldn't even exist, 20ms seconds is nothing, no human hand could be that fast (it's different from what the eyes can see), so if you people notice this delay, it's either just your unconscious mind telling you that the mouse has click delay, only cause you read it somewhere, or they're simply far more than 20/30ms


Habit yes. Your click delay theory is invalid. Your assumption would assume that the click is registered at the same time as you react, but in reality it is added on top of EVERYTHING else. You don't see it as much as you FEEL it. For example, when I play QL I can hit 10-20% more rails against another player(same person) consistently with lower delay clicks, who dodges my shots.
I beg to differ.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> My point is that the button lag point is hilarious when you see how it doesn't affect the players.


Sure people can adapt and overcome but that doesn't mean it (latency) should not be improved.

The sad part of that coin is that people will have to buy yet another model for improved debounce times since Zowie avoids firmware flashing (so far) .


----------



## herbal718

Being that I've never owned any of the EVO mice before and I love my FK1. Which one would you say is better for a claw grip?


----------



## papalazaru

Well, the EC2-A for sure.


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *papalazaru*
> 
> Well, the EC2-A for sure.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *herbal718*
> 
> Being that I've never owned any of the EVO mice before and I love my FK1. Which one would you say is better for a claw grip?


That would be a hard one, but I would say the FK is literally made for claw where the EC is made for Palm that some people do claw. I clawed my EC2 eVo but I think I would rather buy an FK2 over an EC2-A this time around. However, I'm using my ninox still... I don't know if the ass on the FK will give me more control. The EC2 Ass in claw form feels slightly too big and I'm always adjusting my claw because of it.

MiCO - Finger
FK - Claw
EC - Palm


----------



## cheeselol

Hey all, just got my EC1-A in the mail today and I immediately ran it against an FK1 and an Aurora in the Bloody click test.

All tests performed at 1000Hz. Aurora is baseline:

Aurora: +0ms
EC1-A: +4ms
FK1: +12ms

Pretty cool, huh? Zowie managed to shave a consistent 8ms off the click latency. I have a couple of WMOs I could test against, but unfortunately I can't set those to 1000Hz for accurate readings in Windows 8. Even more unfortunately, I don't have any older incarnations of the EC series to test against.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> i reckon that is a matter of habit, and i also think that if nobody had brought up that story of click delay, this drama wouldn't even exist, 20ms seconds is nothing, no human hand could be that fast (it's different from what the eyes can see), so if you people notice this delay, it's either just your unconscious mind telling you that the mouse has click delay, only cause you read it somewhere, or they're simply far more than 20/30ms


There are two AWPers picking middle on Dust 2. They are on the same LAN server, they see each other at the same time, both click mouse 1 at 130ms. However, one has a Logitech G302 and the other has a Steel Series Kinzu.v2 Pro. Who wins?

In high level competition milliseconds matter. Just like in drag racing or Formula 1. Seeing that pro CS players do not want to play with a slight ping disadvantage (they will change servers until they get a similar ping as their opponents) they wouldn't want to play with a high switch input disadvantage.

A more common example: desktop versus laptop. Laptops tend to have a higher latency than a desktop. You can use the same mouse on both, however, you will have slower response times on the laptop. A pro player wouldn't want to play on the laptop if he didn't have to. Just like how they don't want to play on a 60Hz monitor instead of a 120Hz or 144Hz monitor.


----------



## atarii

not the one with the g302, since mine it's wobbling all around thx to his AMAZING mousefeets. The Deadalus is really one of the best mice i ever tried, but sometimes i miss easy shoots because of the mouse wobbling... that's why i went back to my old mouse.

I would like to know why there are people claiming zowie fixed click latency when others have +28ms avg on the new ec...


----------



## cheeselol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> I would like to know why there are people claiming zowie fixed click latency when others have +28ms avg on the new ec...


+28ms relative to what, exactly? People are claiming that Zowie "fixed" click latency because, on their samples, they've been measuring less latency relative to Zowie's previous offerings.


----------



## cheeselol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> There are two AWPers picking middle on Dust 2. They are on the same LAN server, they see each other at the same time, both click mouse 1 at 130ms. However, one has a Logitech G302 and the other has a Steel Series Kinzu.v2 Pro. Who wins?


Obviously, it's the one who's throwing the match and betting against himself.


----------



## atarii

one guy on ESR claims his EC2-A has only 4-5ms delay compared to a g100s
one guy on OCN has a -8ms compared to a fk1 (so +12/13 compared to a g100s) with his EC1-A
another guy on OCN (http://www.overclock.net/t/1536056/zowie-releases-ec1-a-and-ec2-a/310#post_23459094) has average +28ms compared to a g100s with his brand new EC2-A

I know the bmst is not 100% accurate but if you bump with a firm hand the two mice you can obtain constant results. For example both my fk1 and ec2 evo got +19/20ms avg compared to my g302.
So...


----------



## cheeselol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> one guy on OCN has a -8ms compared to a fk1 (so +12/13 compared to a g100s) with his EC1-A


That's consistent with my findings.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> both my fk1 and ec2 evo got +19/20ms avg compared to my g302.
> So...


Looks like an excuse to pick up a Logitech mouse. Does the entirety of their current lineup exhibit low click latency like the g302 and g100s are purported to?


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> not the one with the g302, since mine it's wobbling all around thx to his AMAZING mousefeets. The Deadalus is really one of the best mice i ever tried, but sometimes i miss easy shoots because of the mouse wobbling... that's why i went back to my old mouse.
> 
> I would like to know why there are people claiming zowie fixed click latency when others have +28ms avg on the new ec...


If you like the mouse and thats the only issue you have with it..

BUY NEW MOUSEFEET - I wish i could fix all the faults mice have for me with such a simple, cheap trick.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cheeselol*
> 
> Looks like an excuse to pick up a Logitech mouse. Does the entirety of their current lineup exhibit low click latency like the g302 and g100s are purported to?


Logitech mice have low button latency.


----------



## Azmath

It says here in this video review that EC1-A clicks are 10-11 ms faster than FK1 clicks, and 5-6 ms slower than G502. Give it a look
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LHUNq0zIxE&feature=youtu.be


----------



## iceskeleton

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azmath*
> 
> It says here in this video review that EC1-A clicks are 10-11 ms faster than FK1 clicks, and 5-6 ms slower than G502. Give it a look
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LHUNq0zIxE&feature=youtu.be


Interesting, another person on esreality also performed it and found similar results using the bloody software test. I guess we just need to see if rafa or anyone else can do the his test config. Certainly ~5ms slower is very good


----------



## Maximillion

I got my EC2-A yesterday, was too tired after work to mess with it but just opened it up this morning. The first thing I noticed is how much more naturally my hand cups it compared to my EC1 CL. Since my hands are on the larger side I originally thought that was the way to go but as I predicted the EC2 size is a much better fit and better for overall control.

Also, the coating is excellent. Zowie seems to get it. You don't need to add rubber side grips, just make the shell itself grippy enough and be done with it. In fact, it's even less slippery for dry hands than the white plastic on the CL (could be in part due to the smaller size, though). The side coating is just like the FK1 but the top texture isn't _quite_ as rough. As an 800 CPI user I still don't care too much for the purple (why couldn't it be a dark purple?) but I'll get over it









I did all the usual mouse testing and the sensor performance is great as you'd expect. Very stable at 1000 hz, easily hit 4.5m/s, etc. Goofed around in the BF4 test range for a few minutes and was quite pleased with how it handled. I guess I can do the button latency test later just to compare my results with others but it's not an aspect that's super relevant to me personally. But yeah, very happy with the mouse so far


----------



## Sencha

That's good to hear. I liked my EC1 but even with 22cm hands from base to tip always felt it could be a little smaller for my low sens. Just put an order in for EC2. Done pretty well recently this is the first mouse I've bought since the FK1 launch.


----------



## altaar

Is the EC2-A bigger than the EC2-evo CL? I remember the initial information from Zowie was that the EC2-A was supposedly larger, but then I heard that it was a mistake. Just want to hear a confirmation on the size


----------



## Vorsplummi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altaar*
> 
> Is the EC2-A bigger than the EC2-evo CL? I remember the initial information from Zowie was that the EC2-A was supposedly larger, but then I heard that it was a mistake. Just want to hear a confirmation on the size


I'm 99% sure EC2-A uses the same shell as EC2 CL. Can't confirm it tho.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I got my EC2-A yesterday, was too tired after work to mess with it but just opened it up this morning. The first thing I noticed is how much more naturally my hand cups it compared to my EC1 CL. Since my hands are on the larger side I originally thought that was the way to go but as I predicted the EC2 size is a much better fit and better for overall control.
> 
> Also, the coating is excellent. Zowie seems to get it. You don't need to add rubber side grips, just make the shell itself grippy enough and be done with it. In fact, it's even less slippery for dry hands than the white plastic on the CL (could be in part due to the smaller size, though). The side coating is just like the FK1 but the top texture isn't _quite_ as rough. As an 800 CPI user I still don't care too much for the purple (why couldn't it be a dark purple?) but I'll get over it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did all the usual mouse testing and the sensor performance is great as you'd expect. Very stable at 1000 hz, easily hit 4.5m/s, etc. Goofed around in the BF4 test range for a few minutes and was quite pleased with how it handled. I guess I can do the button latency test later just to compare my results with others but it's not an aspect that's super relevant to me personally. But yeah, very happy with the mouse so far


Excellent for dry hands? Or for sweaty ones too? I remember the ec evo cl was quite good for dry/moist hands, but as soon as you sweat the coating felt like using a touch screen with chicken greasy fingers. The FK was disgusting, whereas fk1 feels best, even though it doesn't necessarily look good cosmetically. How does it feel compared to the 2?


----------



## Aventadoor

How u get it so early...
Maxfps says they will get in stock next friday 6th february...
I guess Zowie doesnt care for their own country...


----------



## Secondo

Is it true that Europeans have to wait until 2/6 to get their hands on these mice?


----------



## scardd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Secondo*
> 
> Is it true that Europeans have to wait until 2/6 to get their hands on these mice?


yes. at least caseking in germany has that date listed on their website.

zowie always does different release dates for different regions.


----------



## Vorsplummi

Eta for Finland is 2/7.


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altaar*
> 
> Is the EC2-A bigger than the EC2-evo CL? I remember the initial information from Zowie was that the EC2-A was supposedly larger, but then I heard that it was a mistake. Just want to hear a confirmation on the size


*Yes the exact same size*.







, it also sounds like the buttons are slightly lighter so I'm guessing they switched to huano blue switches. So absolutely the same shells, the youtube review that was posted earlier in the thread reiterated my thoughts that they are using the legacy shell. He also stated zowie will be putting the led on the bottom on all future shells they create.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Excellent for dry hands? Or for sweaty ones too? I remember the ec evo cl was quite good for dry/moist hands, but as soon as you sweat the coating felt like using a touch screen with chicken greasy fingers. The FK was disgusting, whereas fk1 feels best, even though it doesn't necessarily look good cosmetically. How does it feel compared to the 2?


It's fine for moist hands as well, in fact probably better. I just usually mention whether a mouse is good for dry hands because sweaty is usually what most manufactures seem more concerned about.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cheeselol*
> 
> Obviously, it's the one who's throwing the match and betting against himself.


Ha! Best.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cheeselol*
> 
> Aurora: +0ms
> EC1-A: +4ms
> FK1: +12ms
> 
> Pretty cool, huh? Zowie managed to shave a consistent 8ms off the click latency.


I doubt it.
As long as there isn't a proper testing and comparison without bumping to mice into each other I call "BULLCRAHP".

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> There are two AWPers picking middle on Dust 2. They are on the same LAN server, they see each other at the same time, both click mouse 1 at 130ms. However, one has a Logitech G302 and the other has a Steel Series Kinzu.v2 Pro. Who wins?


IF both players have the exact same reaction time which is based on mouse positioning, mood, clear of sight, angle he has to aim at and and and and .... then YES, of course the G302 will win. It still might be just a theoretical advantage in real situations because of so many factors that have to be considered 15ms is a really damn short time compared to the human reaction time. Therefore it's hard to find situations where both players aren't already influenced in their abilities by one of the other many factors.
I still think that lower is better. But I don't care at all as long as it doesn't get any higher than those +15ms which are compared to the Logitech mice.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> In high level competition milliseconds matter. Just like in drag racing or Formula 1. Seeing that pro CS players do not want to play with a slight ping disadvantage (they will change servers until they get a similar ping as their opponents) they wouldn't want to play with a high switch input disadvantage.
> 
> A more common example: desktop versus laptop. Laptops tend to have a higher latency than a desktop. You can use the same mouse on both, however, you will have slower response times on the laptop. A pro player wouldn't want to play on the laptop if he didn't have to. Just like how they don't want to play on a 60Hz monitor instead of a 120Hz or 144Hz monitor.


This though is comparing apples with oranges.
Hz and monitor input lag is a completely different topic because the differences are always and constantly visible and perceivable.
Same with internet connection. You always are in a disadvante constantly at every bullet with a high ping.


----------



## dangerteeth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> another guy on OCN (http://www.overclock.net/t/1536056/zowie-releases-ec1-a-and-ec2-a/310#post_23459094) has average +28ms compared to a g100s with his brand new EC2-A
> 
> I know the bmst is not 100% accurate but if you bump with a firm hand the two mice you can obtain constant results. For example both my fk1 and ec2 evo got +19/20ms avg compared to my g302.
> So...


This test means absolutely nothing if you don't have the proper setup. My 28ms "latency" findings are actually measuring button height and human error. For the test to work you need this setup that popups posted.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> http://utmalesoldiers.blogspot.jp/2013/02/114.html
> 
> That is how you test it.


----------



## wes1099

Semi off topic, but which of these two things do you guys think I should do? I could A: Spend my $70 on an EC1-A to replace my beat up Deathadder 2013 I have had since release date, or B: Spend my $70 on powerline adapters and ethernet cables to get wired ethernet to my room to fix my wireless interference issues.


----------



## zwacki

I just sent the EC1-A back because the lift off distance was too low for my usage (i did not measure lift of distances as usb thumb-drives replaced my cd stacks). Further, I also did the bloody mouse test and compared it with my Zowie FK and this ev1a was consistently 10ms faster.

My question is if i get a new fk1 or fk2 will the lift of distance be the same as the old fk or will it be like the new ec1a ?


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zwacki*
> 
> I just sent the EC1-A back because the lift off distance was too low for my usage (i did not measure lift of distances as usb thumb-drives replaced my cd stacks). Further, I also did the bloody mouse test and compared it with my Zowie FK and this ev1a was consistently 10ms faster.
> 
> My question is if i get a new fk1 or fk2 will the lift of distance be the same as the old fk or will it be like the new ec1a ?


I'm pretty sure you can change the lod


http://www.overclock.net/t/1500615/zowie-fk1-competitive-gaming-mouse-review-by-ino


----------



## ramraze

Lol. Research fail.


----------



## 8thwonderuk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vorsplummi*
> 
> I'm 99% sure EC2-A uses the same shell as EC2 CL. Can't confirm it tho.


I got a reply from Zowie on Facebook, it's the same shell.


----------



## 8thwonderuk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creizai*
> 
> I use a White HHKB so I know that feeling, and I do have a White EC2 EVO. Maybe someone could check to see if the shells are interchangeable? Then just buy someones old shell for dirt cheap since everyone will be upgrading to the 3310.


From Zowie Gear official Facebook:

Me:
Hi,

Will I be able to use the top shell of my white ec2 evo with the bottom part of the new ec2-a? I find the gloss finish is the only grippy surface to me.

Kind regards
Tom

Zowie:
We do not suggest messing with the mouse but they have the exact same size. Take from that what you wish.









That's enough info for me. 1st I will swap out the sides from my white ec2. That should be grippy enough for me, if not I'll do the top also. I will post results here when I get the mouse, I have it on pre order in the UK


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zwacki*
> 
> I just sent the EC1-A back because the lift off distance was too low for my usage (i did not measure lift of distances as usb thumb-drives replaced my cd stacks). Further, I also did the bloody mouse test and compared it with my Zowie FK and this ev1a was consistently 10ms faster.
> 
> My question is if i get a new fk1 or fk2 will the lift of distance be the same as the old fk or will it be like the new ec1a ?


You can toggled it to a higher lod


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Semi off topic, but which of these two things do you guys think I should do? I could A: Spend my $70 on an EC1-A to replace my beat up Deathadder 2013 I have had since release date, or B: Spend my $70 on powerline adapters and ethernet cables to get wired ethernet to my room to fix my wireless interference issues.


first check if you can get rid of the interferences using the program "inSSIDer 3", by moving the antenna around and find a place without interferences.
otherwise i would of course go for a stable connection, rather than a new mouse.


----------



## Secondo

Zowie gave an ETA of when their new EC iteration would hit Europe, which is around February. I can't buy this mouse anywhere in Europe yet, except for Caseking.de(germany) which seems to be the only place in Europe. How did Caseking already get their hands on it, and why did Zowie not announce anything on their page yet...


----------



## pran

Just got a delivery confirmation from caseking, hopefully it'll arrive this week.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pran*
> 
> Just got a delivery confirmation from caseking, hopefully it'll arrive this week.


Same here!
It should arrive tomorrow.
Caseking's always super fast.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Same here!
> It should arrive tomorrow.
> Caseking's always super fast.


I got it this evening, last time it took 2 days after that


----------



## pran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I got it this evening, last time it took 2 days after that


According to DHL I should receive it between 12:30 and 3:30 pm on saturday, so yeah - 2 days.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> first check if you can get rid of the interferences using the program "inSSIDer 3", by moving the antenna around and find a place without interferences.
> otherwise i would of course go for a stable connection, rather than a new mouse.


the issue isn't things interference with my wireless, it's my sketchy wireless network causing interfering with my audio devices, and my connection is not very stable either. I think my mouse will have to wait.


----------



## thumus

How is the coating compared to the old EC2 Blue? Blue's coating gets stickyvafter a while. It's the main reason I don't use it all the time.


----------



## CPTMULLER

Ordered my ec1-a from superbiz yesterday, no word on shipping yet







anyone order from them in the past and know how long it should take?


----------



## the1onewolf

You guys are so impatient lol


----------



## scardd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1onewolf*
> 
> You guys are so impatient lol


thats what stuff like amazon prime has done to ppl (me included) ... if its not here next day it takes too long


----------



## aLv1080

I really want to buy an EC2-A

Just waiting until it gets available on Amazon


----------



## bobsaget

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Secondo*
> 
> Zowie gave an ETA of when their new EC iteration would hit Europe, which is around February. I can't buy this mouse anywhere in Europe yet, except for Caseking.de(germany) which seems to be the only place in Europe. How did Caseking already get their hands on it, and why did Zowie not announce anything on their page yet...


idk where you're from, but LDLC.com (France) will be selling both models.
http://www.ldlc.com/informatique/peripherique-pc/souris/c4613/+fb-C000035182.html


----------



## CPTMULLER

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1onewolf*
> 
> You guys are so impatient lol


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> I really want to buy an EC2-A
> 
> Just waiting until it gets available on Amazon


between Amazon Prime and Google Shopping Express I've become used to instant gratification


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPTMULLER*
> 
> between Amazon Prime and Google Shopping Express I've become used to instant gratification


I pay really high prices on Amazon but the service is just amazing... I have no words to express that.
Even with the cheaper shipping (5usd if I'm not wrong) it took a bit more than 1 week to arrive. Keep in mind that I live in a ****hole in South America haha


----------



## wes1099

Ugh I am still having trouble deciding between buying one of these or powerline adapters to make my internet connection more stable. My connection isn't extremely unstable, it just randomly drops out and since I need a high gain antenna to pick up a signal, my audio devices pick up loads of interference. On the other hand, my deathadder 2013 I bought on release date has its own handfull of issues (the coating is completely gone, cable is fraying, my second set of slippery pads on the bottom are almost gone, mouse randomly turns itself off, and many more).


----------



## Ka0sX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I got it this evening, last time it took 2 days after that


How long untill your review?

Thanks


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Ugh I am still having trouble deciding between buying one of these or powerline adapters to make my internet connection more stable. My connection isn't extremely unstable, it just randomly drops out and since I need a high gain antenna to pick up a signal, my audio devices pick up loads of interference. On the other hand, my deathadder 2013 I bought on release date has its own handfull of issues (the coating is completely gone, cable is fraying, my second set of slippery pads on the bottom are almost gone, mouse randomly turns itself off, and many more).


lol. just get your internet issue fixed first man. the mouse isn't going anywhere.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> lol. just get your internet issue fixed first man. the mouse isn't going anywhere.


Yeah but my deathadder might be going straight through my window if it randomly stops tracking again







but whatever, I will fix my internet. If I am lucky, I might be able to scrounge up some networking hardware from my dad or grandparents.


----------



## dazerro

hey guys, do you think ec2-a will fit me better than Deathadder and Rival, if i find this two too big for me? (used both)
I never had any zowie mouse in my hand, im really thinking about EC2-A which will be available 2/10 in my country


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Ugh I am still having trouble deciding between buying one of these or powerline adapters to make my internet connection more stable. My connection isn't extremely unstable, it just randomly drops out and since I need a high gain antenna to pick up a signal, my audio devices pick up loads of interference. On the other hand, my deathadder 2013 I bought on release date has its own handfull of issues (the coating is completely gone, cable is fraying, my second set of slippery pads on the bottom are almost gone, mouse randomly turns itself off, and many more).


Rma?


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dazerro*
> 
> hey guys, do you think ec2-a will fit me better than Deathadder and Rival, if i find this two too big for me? (used both)
> I never had any zowie mouse in my hand, im really thinking about EC2-A which will be available 2/10 in my country


Well can't say for certain but if you like those mice but want something smaller the EC2 is a logical choice.


----------



## 8thwonderuk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dazerro*
> 
> hey guys, do you think ec2-a will fit me better than Deathadder and Rival, if i find this two too big for me? (used both)
> I never had any zowie mouse in my hand, im really thinking about EC2-A which will be available 2/10 in my country


I have a Deathadder and an ec2 and the ec2 is a lot lot better for small hands. I have way more control using my ec2


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ka0sX*
> 
> How long untill your review?
> 
> Thanks


Probably some time next week, this weekend is full of work already.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Probably some time next week, this weekend is full of work already.


How dare you!


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> How dare you!


How dare my wife forces me to do renovations. Word of advice: never buy a house if you're not either rich or enjoy manual labor...


----------



## Jeemil89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> How dare my wife forces me to do renovations. Word of advice: never buy a house if you're not either rich or enjoy manual labor...


You mean: Never get a wife if you're not rich or enjoy manual labor








I currently use a Rival and I was thinking about the EC2 evo cl, but now that the EC2 with 3310 is out (+better coating), I'm definitely picking one up.


----------



## Versus2190

I got my EC2-A today and here are a few impressions:

- no wheel issue oO

- quite a bit of positive acceleration (similar to the Aviors (3) I've tried)

- high click latency is still noticeable while sniping

- I find the tracking on Avior and g400 better (ss qck heavy +)

- my recoil control is bad compared to Avior or g400 for some reason

The 400 cpi step ist ~384 cpi in real (maybe useful for someone)

Back to g400


----------



## detto87

My EC2-A just arrived.

400 CPI @ 1000 Hz
http://abload.de/img/ec2-a400stepxirc8.png

800 CPI @ 1000 Hz
http://abload.de/img/ec2-a800stepueoh4.png


----------



## Thunderbringer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> My EC2-A just arrived.
> 
> 400 CPI @ 1000 Hz
> http://abload.de/img/ec2-a400stepxirc8.png
> 
> 800 CPI @ 1000 Hz
> http://abload.de/img/ec2-a800stepueoh4.png


What mousepad do you use?


----------



## detto87

Corepad Deskpad.

Already noticed in-game: scroll wheel bug like on the FK1.
It sometimes just doesn't register the upscroll. If the wheel is then touched ever so lightly without actually scrolling, then it registers the missed upscroll.


----------



## Shiotcrock

WOW biggest problem they didn't fix scroll wheel?

I was going to pick one up on Amazon today but the fixed sensitivity is the deal breaking which is no go.

If the scroll wheel isn't fixed can't really even use it for surfing =)


----------



## detto87

Are you serious right now?








The wheel bug only ever so rarely happens and it usually is just noticeable in-game because you want it to exactly scroll 1 notch which it sometimes just doesn't, or, delayed so to speak. But for everything else it's fine to me. Scrolling steps feel nice. Click is tactile but not too firm.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiotcrock*
> 
> WOW biggest problem they didn't fix scroll wheel?


They're probably saving that for the EC2-b due out in a couple of months

/sarcasm


----------



## Creizai

Would be nuts to see a revised AM with the huano blues, 3310, and fk coating. If they were going to do their first shell revision the AM would be the best choice since it needs ec like clicks and fk \___/ sides.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Corepad Deskpad.
> 
> Already noticed in-game: scroll wheel bug like on the FK1.
> It sometimes just doesn't register the upscroll. If the wheel is then touched ever so lightly without actually scrolling, then it registers the missed upscroll.


The feedback from the wheel is not timed properly with the interrupting piece for the scroll wheel sensor. This has been the case since the beginning.

On the old design if you scroll naturally you will not notice the timing issue, but if you scroll slowly you will get a scroll command before you get the physical feedback. Meaning if you scroll very slightly you can get a scroll command without making it to the next notch.

What I want to know is if the new EC1/2 still has a jumping wheel like the older EC series. I have explained this many times, but most people don't test it. All you have to do is pull the scroll wheel upwards and scroll as you do so. This issue is more important than the timing of the feedback from the wheel.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creizai*
> 
> Would be nuts to see a revised AM with the huano blues, 3310, and fk coating. If they were going to do their first shell revision the AM would be the best choice since it needs ec like clicks and fk \___/ sides.


That is called the FK. The FK is supposed to be the successor of the AM. Therefore the AM is dead.

I don't like the FK's shape because it was not designed as well as it could have been. I think that was because they wanted to reuse the AM's PCB. They should make some modifications to the FK's shape.


----------



## wes1099

So I was able to find some equipment to fix my internet issues between my grandparents and dad. I am going to order an EC1-A soon and will try and make a review of it. I will probably compare it with my Deathadder 2013.


----------



## detto87

On a quick glance I really like the EC2-A.
But I will already send it back because I cannot accept the obvious flaws anymore.
Especially because many of them are known to Zowie since months.

The feet are too thin.
The button lag could be lowered.
The tracking isn't all that perfect either (mousetester.exe shows many spikes).
The wheel is still bugged.

I could've overlooked that they don't provide a firmware updater or some other small new features. It would be fine to me with just the sensor upgrade to the 3310.
But they left our everything else and fixed nothing.
That's unacceptable for me, especially for the price they ask.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> On a quick glance I really like the EC2-A.
> But I will already send it back because I cannot accept the obvious flaws anymore.
> Especially because many of them are known to Zowie since months.
> 
> I could've overlooked that they don't provide a firmware updater or some other small new features. It would be fine to me with just the sensor upgrade to the 3310.
> But they left our everything else and fixed nothing.
> That's unacceptable for me, especially for the price they ask.


This is why I didn't buy a FK1. Even though I asked for a larger sized mouse called the FK1. I also asked for other things, which didn't get fixed. I told the previous marketing guy, now there is a new marketing guy (that needs to hear the same complaints). So I see no point for me to buy another Zowie mouse ever again.

Maybe Final Mouse can take over Zowie's current market position. I will be more demanding of Final Mouse so they don't end up like Zowie Gear. However, I have a feeling that Final Mouse is only a ODM/OEM reseller, not really a company that will make their own stuff. Which means they will never be anything more than what BST/Nionix is.


----------



## Aventadoor

Zowie is simply taking alot of short cuts. Sloppy "engineering" (cant call it engineering) and what not... Unfortunaly...
They barely invest anything into their products....


----------



## Ino.

I don't really understand the complaints about the feet, I never had to change mine on any Zowie neither did they scrape at all.

But then I only use cloth pads, maybe it makes a difference on plastic.


----------



## Creizai

FK - WMO
AM - IMO
EC - 3.0

If you have problems with the feet you can always double stack them. Too bad the feet on every mice out currently is terrible compared to aftermarket wmo/imo/3.0 feet anyway.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creizai*
> 
> If you have problems with the feet you can always double stack them. Too bad the feet on every mice out currently is terrible compared to aftermarket wmo/imo/3.0 feet anyway.


Adding thicker feet will raise the sensor out of the designated height from the surface.


----------



## pran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Adding thicker feet will raise the sensor out of the designated height from the surface.


Then you just change the LOD?


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Adding thicker feet will raise the sensor out of the designated height from the surface.


The oem thin is for hard surfaces with difficult to track surfaces due to the low lod. Zowie speedy skates are taller than oem, you should send them an email letting them know their replacement feet raises the sensor out of the designated height from the surface that you know and designed.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pran*
> 
> Then you just change the LOD?


The lens is designed for a certain height. Once you get out of that specification the performance isn't optimal.

It's best to make thicker feet and have the sensor at the correct height.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creizai*
> 
> The oem thin is for hard surfaces with difficult to track surfaces due to the low lod. Zowie speedy skates are taller than oem, you should send them an email letting them know their replacement feet raises the sensor out of the designated height from the surface that you know and designed.


Zowie had to use very thin feet with their 3090 mice because they used a custom lens from Kingsis that magnified. This required the sensor to be lower than designed, which caused an increase in CPI. Their stated CPI on the box was incorrect because they didn't account for this.

Now they are using a 3310 sensor (with the standard lens) in their 3090 shells/molds.


----------



## xslicx

I have a Zowie EC1 eVo CL and Razer Deathadder 2013. The EC1 seems just a little bigger than the Deathadder. Is the EC2-A smaller than the Deathadder? Since I want to get a size closest to the DA2013, I wonder if the EC2 is closest or too small. Does anyone have all 3 or used all 3 before?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xslicx*
> 
> I have a Zowie EC1 eVo CL and Razer Deathadder 2013. The EC1 seems just a little bigger than the Deathadder. Is the EC2-A smaller than the Deathadder? Since I want to get a size closest to the DA2013, I wonder if the EC2 is closest or too small. Does anyone have all 3 or used all 3 before?




The EC2 is thinner.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> What I want to know is if the new EC1/2 still has a jumping wheel like the older EC series. I have explained this many times, but most people don't test it. All you have to do is pull the scroll wheel upwards and scroll as you do so. This issue is more important than the timing of the feedback from the wheel.


Just got mine and tested this.
When I pinch the wheel upwards and scroll it still works. This did not work on my EC1 eVo CL. So it seems to be fixed on the EC2-A at least.


----------



## pran

Got my EC1-A today. All in all I'm a bit disappointed.

- The side buttons feel mushy.
- Mousewheel is hard to click (otherwise fine).
- Right click feels too 'sharp', don't know how perfectly describe it, it's just weird.
- Crazy high LOD out of the box (on Artisan Hayate), even the lowest setting is still a bit too high.
- Even though the bloody mouse test says that the EC1-A has around 7ms less click delay than my NAOS 7000, I scored around 20ms faster on average after doing 50 reaction tests each with the NAOS.
- I used my original EC1 for the last two weeks to get used to the shape so I could try out the EC1-A and I feel like there's a huge difference in click delay. My rifle shots with the EC1-A always came a bit too late, even worse for the AWP. If I had to choose, I'd honestly prefer the original EC1.


----------



## scardd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Just got mine and tested this.
> When I pinch the wheel upwards and scroll it still works. This did not work on my EC1 eVo CL. So it seems to be fixed on the EC2-A at least.


my scrollwheel works fine aswell. if i just do 1 scroll it sometimes (its very rare) registers the upscroll a bit later than usual.
i never notice that except for when i am really trying to make it happen, but ingame or in the browser i usually never use just 1 scroll notch.
edit: when pulling the wheel up a bit (it really dosnt move all that much) scrolls still work for me at least.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pran*
> 
> Got my EC1-A today. All in all I'm a bit disappointed.
> - Crazy high LOD out of the box (on Artisan Hayate), even the lowest setting is still a bit too high.


Mine doesnt track at 1 CD. i tried on my qck+ and on my puretalk talent - both same result (i didnt change the LOD).
LOD is as low as the old EC1 eVo i have.


----------



## karbz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pran*
> 
> Why did you buy it on Amazon (US? UK?) instead of caseking?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Just got mine and tested this.
> When I pinch the wheel upwards and scroll it still works. This did not work on my EC1 eVo CL. So it seems to be fixed on the EC2-A at least.


as i dont even have mine yet -_- thanks usa company expedited shipping my ass...

how would you rate/compare the ec2-a to the finalmouse you already tested? just a short first rating etc. because i consider to purchase the finalmouse aswell and then send back one of those two.
please gimme a little statement and a recommendation/reference and the advantages/disadvantages of the two.

Thanks in advance !
PS: ich hasse casking trotzdem.


----------



## Sencha

Anyone else in the UK waiting on one? I got one ordered from OcUK. Just emailing asking for an ETA


----------



## Ino.

For anybody interested in my review: OCN doesn't allow reviews in the forum anymore, so I had to put it up in the Review section

Zowie EC2-A Competitive Gaming Mouse review - by Ino

To sum it up:

+ I like the EC2 size much better than the EC1
+ Button latency is reduced compared to FK1
+ Sensor performs great (as was to be expected with the 3310)
+ Coating is grippy but less grainy than FK1
+ Cable is perfect as usual with Zowie

- Side buttons have pre-travel, especially M4, like at least 1 mm

That's pretty much it. I have all my pictures in this Imgur Album if you just want to see those: Zowie EC2-A Pictures


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> For anybody interested in my review: OCN doesn't allow reviews in the forum anymore, so I had to put it up in the Review section


the end is near...


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: Ino



Originally Posted by *Ino.* 


> For anybody interested in my review: OCN doesn't allow reviews in the forum anymore, so I had to put it up in the Review section
> 
> Zowie EC2-A Competitive Gaming Mouse review - by Ino
> 
> To sum it up:
> 
> + I like the EC2 size much better than the EC1
> + Button latency is reduced compared to FK1
> + Sensor performs great (as was to be expected with the 3310)
> + Coating is grippy but less grainy than FK1
> + Cable is perfect as usual with Zowie
> 
> - Side buttons have pre-travel, especially M4, like at least 1 mm
> 
> That's pretty much it. I have all my pictures in this Imgur Album if you just want to see those: Zowie EC2-A Pictures






Good review.


----------



## ramen ramon

Hey, first post here
I recieved my ec1-a 2 days ago, even though caseking said it would be sent in a week. Oh well, good for me.

Anyway, i think the review is spot on.
Button latency is within 1 ms of sensei and naos 7000, haven't compared it to deathadder.
Clicks seem very loud and a bit harder to press then omroms, but the noise annoys me more, while the force needed is negligible.
Nice coating of cable and mouse, very nice gliding (some of the best).
Scroll wheel is nice as well, stands out pretty high but scrolls and clicks well. Fast scrolling is a bit harder than i am used too.

Probably the worst side buttons in any high quality mouse i have ever felt! The "Back" button is absolutely terrible. Even if it is not clicked it is basically "in" the mouse, the bottom side doesn't stand out, while the upper part stands out. If i press it, with loads of travel distance, it sinks even further into the mouse.
Forward button is better, but also has the same annoying travel distance and mushy feel. I am wondering if other people experience the same issues?

I also feel the Dpi steps 400 and 800 are not actually 400/800, but have to test it. Feeling wise, 400 seems much faster than it should. Haven't used the other steps.


----------



## detto87

So there are still no real button lag tests available yet everybody continues to claim that they reduced it?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramen ramon*
> 
> Probably the worst side buttons in any high quality mouse i have ever felt! The "Back" button is absolutely terrible. Even if it is not clicked it is basically "in" the mouse, the bottom side doesn't stand out, while the upper part stands out. If i press it, with loads of travel distance, it sinks even further into the mouse.
> Forward button is better, but also has the same annoying travel distance and mushy feel. I am wondering if other people experience the same issues?
> 
> I also feel the Dpi steps 400 and 800 are not actually 400/800, but have to test it. Feeling wise, 400 seems much faster than it should. Haven't used the other steps.


Yes, the side buttons on mine are the same, as are on treav0rs.

CPI steps felt fast but were actually all lower than proclaimed value



In numbers:

400 = 390 CPI
800 = 765 CPI
1600 = 1552 CPI
3200 = 3070 CPI

At least on my unit.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> So there are still no real button lag tests available yet everybody continues to claim that they reduced it?


It is consistently faster than the FK1 and slower than the G302. I wouldn't really claim numbers, but it's consistent.


----------



## ramen ramon

Don't think anybody decides to buy a mouse based upon the test we use, but it's still some metric that can be included in reviews, even if it doesn't say/mean much.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> It is consistently faster than the FK1 and slower than the G302. I wouldn't really claim numbers, but it's consistent.


Of course it's consistent. The button on the EC2 is way lighter than on the FK1. And it stays lighter, that's where the consistency from the results comes from.

Nothing to do with actual delay after 'pulling the trigger' though.


----------



## thuNDa

someone test button lag against EC evo, then everybody should be convinced, even when in theory it would be already sufficient to test against any other mouse anyways.


----------



## papalazaru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> For anybody interested in my review: OCN doesn't allow reviews in the forum anymore, so I had to put it up in the Review section
> 
> Zowie EC2-A Competitive Gaming Mouse review - by Ino


Looks like the old ec2, with new internals.









I'll probably get one. Curious comparing it against the fk1 and the ec1. I suspect somewhere in the middle.

Shame they haven't tighten up the side buttons. Very mushy on the ec1, while they were tight as a drum on the fk's. Either way, not a deal breaker for me.


----------



## scardd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> someone test button lag against EC evo, then everybody should be convinced, even when in theory it would be already sufficient to test against any other mouse anyways.


*Mouse A: zowie EC2-A
Mouse B: zowie EC1-eVo*
both buttons are about the same to press (at least based on personal feeling).

*Result:*
http://imgur.com/XDx7jEG
the ec2-A has about 7.5-8.5 ms faster results in this test.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scardd*
> 
> *Mouse A: zowie EC2-A
> Mouse B: zowie EC1-eVo*
> both buttons are about the same to press (at least based on personal feeling).
> 
> *Result:*
> http://imgur.com/XDx7jEG
> the ec2-A has about 7.5-8.5 ms faster results in this test.


nice.


----------



## calci

Could someone test if the FK2 have reduced buttons lag too?


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Of course it's consistent. The button on the EC2 is way lighter than on the FK1. And it stays lighter, that's where the consistency from the results comes from.
> 
> Nothing to do with actual delay after 'pulling the trigger' though.


If you smash something together with enough force, it will easily overpower what little difference there is in resistance between said two objects.

In case you were talking about hulk smashy smashy mouse button lag test


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> Someone should email them about that problem
> 
> "Alberto Duarte
> Marketing Manager
> Email: [email protected]"


Delete: Doesn't work there any more. At least zowie should read this thread I'm fairly sure theres a fairly good representation of high level gamers here. I totally agree with the click delay it's .. scrubbish.


----------



## zeflow

I thought the click latency was corrected on this version?


----------



## scardd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> I thought the click latency was corrected on this version?


at least based on the "mash to buttons against each other test" the click delay is reduced.

not the most scientific test but yeah i dont think its a coincidence that everyone has basically reported the same result from it.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Delete: Doesn't work there any more. At least zowie should read this thread I'm fairly sure theres a fairly good representation of high level gamers here. I totally agree with the click delay it's .. scrubbish.


Did he really left zowie?

He seemed to be a nice guy tbh, I mailed him a few times.


----------



## MrStick89

Just got my EC1-A Saturday overall I'm pretty pleased with it.. except I'm having some issues with the scroll wheel...

I play competitive counter strike and use my scroll wheel to jump. Atleast 3-4times a match I will be scroll jumping when my wheel gets stuck between scrolls. When I say stuck its actually like I didn't full commit to the scroll and it isn't fully rolled over. The issue is as soon as I swipe or jolt my mouse the wheel rolls into place causing me to jump. I'm hoping this goes away as the wheel breaks in because its very annoying.


----------



## aLv1080

I'm pretty sure the EC2-A was 87g when they first announced it and now they changed it to 93g. The EC1-A was 103g if I'm not wrong, or something 100g+

Am I getting crazy or they really did that?


----------



## Ino.

Btw:

You can also alter the LOD like you could on the FK1 by pressing different buttons while connecting the mouse via USB. It's explained on Zowies FAQ site for the EC-A series.
With the standard LOD I get less than 1 CD, with the high LOD option I get around 2 CD LOD.

So this does work.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> Did he really left zowie?
> 
> He seemed to be a nice guy tbh, I mailed him a few times.


Maybe he was fired for responding to emails


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Maybe he was fired for responding to emails


That's like the third marketing guy to leave Zowie Gear... I don't think they all got fired. They probably were over it and left.


----------



## Sencha

Yeah I was just making fun of Zowies terrible CS lol


----------



## stickyh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Yes, the side buttons on mine are the same, as are on treav0rs.
> 
> CPI steps felt fast but were actually all lower than proclaimed value
> 
> 
> 
> In numbers:
> 
> 400 = 390 CPI
> 800 = 765 CPI
> 1600 = 1552 CPI
> 3200 = 3070 CPI
> 
> At least on my unit.
> It is consistently faster than the FK1 and slower than the G302. I wouldn't really claim numbers, but it's consistent.


How did you mesure the 390 CPI?

Im very interested in the EC1-A but 390 instead of 400 are annoying me as i want consistency transitioning from my previous mouse :/


----------



## MLJS54

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stickyh*
> 
> How did you mesure the 390 CPI?
> 
> Im very interested in the EC1-A but 390 instead of 400 are annoying me as i want consistency transitioning from my previous mouse :/


That 2.6% decrease will shatter your K/D.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stickyh*
> 
> How did you mesure the 390 CPI?
> 
> Im very interested in the EC1-A but 390 instead of 400 are annoying me as i want consistency transitioning from my previous mouse :/


True CPI can be quickly/easily determined using Enotus or Microe's Mousetester. Being 10 off is nothing to care about as I am rather certain the mouse you're using isn't precisely the value it claims to be. In fact, the 8-10 mice I've checked true CPI for never had a value actually equal to the listed.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stickyh*
> 
> How did you mesure the 390 CPI?
> 
> Im very interested in the EC1-A but 390 instead of 400 are annoying me as i want consistency transitioning from my previous mouse :/


Your previous mouse will most likely also not have exactly 400 CPI, they vary due to a lot of things, mainly height tolerances.

I measure the real CPI with MouseTester and a ruler. I make three measurements and then take the average.

Check my previous tests with other mice, the only one that had a real value of 400 was the FK1. Most mice vary between 370-430 for the 400 step, at least in my experience.

They also vary from unit to unit of course, so someone else might get a EC2-A with 410 CPI.


----------



## stickyh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Your previous mouse will most likely also not have exactly 400 CPI, they vary due to a lot of things, mainly height tolerances.
> 
> I measure the real CPI with MouseTester and a ruler. I make three measurements and then take the average.
> 
> Check my previous tests with other mice, the only one that had a real value of 400 was the FK1. Most mice vary between 370-430 for the 400 step, at least in my experience.
> 
> They also vary from unit to unit of course, so someone else might get a EC2-A with 410 CPI.


So we can imagine my actual FK1 having the same Δ, that would be cool (no reason zowie had changed internals, no?)


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stickyh*
> 
> So we can imagine my actual FK1 having the same Δ, that would be cool (no reason zowie had changed internals, no?)


Well, there are manufacturing tolerances bit for the sensor assembly, the shell thickness and the feet thickness which all influence the sensor height and therefor the real CPI value. So it will vary from unit to unit, but it shouldn't too much.


----------



## detto87

Only real consistency regarding sensitivity is to measure the total distance in-game compared to your actual moved distance on the mousepad.

cm per 360
or
inch per 360


----------



## atarii

got my ec2-a today

i like the coating, i like m1 and m2, the sensor is amazing (5.81 m/s @ 400 dpi / 1000 hz)

the scroll is amazing compared to the evo

i found an issue (dont know if it's my unit or it's a common problem). If you try to move the mouse really fast (for example trying to reach the maximum speed on enotus) on a colored mousepad (i got the problem on the puretrak talent) it disconnects and reconnect in a few seconds. This doesn't happen on my qck or qpad uc-50 (is it because they are black?).


----------



## cheeselol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> i found an issue (dont know if it's my unit or it's a common problem). If you try to move the mouse really fast (for example trying to reach the maximum speed on enotus) on a colored mousepad (i got the problem on the puretrak talent) it disconnects and reconnect in a few seconds. This doesn't happen on my qck or qpad uc-50 (is it because they are black?).


Are you sure it's not just skipping? If it's actually disconnecting, you may have a QC issue with your mouse.

You can always try using the highest LOD setting. Sometimes that will resolve tracking issues. When plugging the mouse in, hold:

Rear Thumb Button + Left Click: (default) mid LOD
Rear Thumb Button + Right Click: low LOD
Rear Thumb Button + Left Click + Right Click: high LOD


----------



## atarii

cursor is not responding for a couple of seconds + windows sound when you plug/unplug a new hardware...
it's not a major problem since i can play with my qpad or old qck.

I could even play with my puretrak, i won't do a movement so fast in any game xD


----------



## Phos

Yeah that sounds like your cable is coming loose.


----------



## atarii

it doesn't happen with a mousepad longer than my puretrak, i doubt is the cable
basically if i do an huge and fast swipe (like 48 cm in 0.5 sec) and i LIFT the mouse it disconnects for 2 seconds. If i dont lift it doesn't happen.

the qpad uc is longer than my puretrak but it doesn't happen so...


----------



## oxidized

i used to have some problem (now i do but less than before) with the too low LOD compared to my old mouse, i hope that 2cd LOD would be as high as g500s' LOD was


----------



## Ka0sX

Anyone feel like helping out someone from AUS?

I dont want to pay 59.99 for mouse and 75 postage

Wondering if someone could order it get it delivered to them then ship it to me ?

Would appreciate the help

Thanks


----------



## Kyal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ka0sX*
> 
> Anyone feel like helping out someone from AUS?
> 
> I dont want to pay 59.99 for mouse and 75 postage
> 
> Wondering if someone could order it get it delivered to them then ship it to me ?
> 
> Would appreciate the help
> 
> Thanks


i paid 7usd for postage for mine, how is yours so expensive??


----------



## Ka0sX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyal*
> 
> i paid 7usd for postage for mine, how is yours so expensive??


i have no damn clue iam in South Australia but yeah 75.00 is a RIP

Can you get it shipped again for 7$ ? if so will you order it for me

pic


----------



## ich1ban

Same for shipping to VIC metro, the shipping fee is more than the mouse itself


----------



## Ka0sX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> Same for shipping to VIC metro, the shipping fee is more than the mouse itself


The only way i can get 7$ shipping is buying it from amazon, not rexflo, But the amazon one says ships in 2 to 4 weeks


----------



## Kyal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ka0sX*
> 
> i have no damn clue iam in South Australia but yeah 75.00 is a RIP
> 
> Can you get it shipped again for 7$ ? if so will you order it for me
> 
> pic


Mine was an EC2, doubt it'd make a difference though, surely?
Also in South Australia, ordered mine from rexflo with expedited shipping. :S
Not able to order it for you though, sorry mate.
Weird.

EDIT:
just checked shipping for ec1 is the same as you, odd


----------



## Ka0sX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kyal*
> 
> Mine was an EC2, doubt it'd make a difference though, surely?
> Also in South Australia, ordered mine from rexflo with expedited shipping. :S
> Not able to order it for you though, sorry mate.
> Weird.
> 
> EDIT:
> just checked shipping for ec1 is the same as you, odd


ODD is right, I email pccg for an ETA but there so slow at replying to emails lol

OCUK still dont have ETA yet either ill be buying from the 1st place that gets them


----------



## end0rphine

So Taiwan then?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> cursor is not responding for a couple of seconds + windows sound when you plug/unplug a new hardware...
> it's not a major problem since i can play with my qpad or old qck.
> 
> I could even play with my puretrak, i won't do a movement so fast in any game xD


At which CPI step do you use your EC?

I mentioned it in my review I think but I had a similar experience when doing extremely fast swipes on 1600 and 3200 CPI on my UC 50, on 400 or 800 this never happened. But with my unit there was no disconnecting, only the cursor being unresponsive for 1-2 seconds.


----------



## exitone

In australia just order straight from amazon not rexflo, US companies charge insane for shipping for some reason compared to amazon


----------



## atarii

ok so, i did some more test.

First, i am doing this using 400 dpi / 1000 hz (win 6/11, epp off).

The problem happens when i do a VERY FAST swipe (impossible to replicate in game or in any real task) on a puretrak talent and i lift the mouse when i reach the end of the mousepad. I tought the mouse disconnects from the usb, but the light on the wheel never goes off. So it doesnt. The cursor became unresponsive for 1-2 sec and then i hear a typical windows sound.

Anyway i can't replicate this issue on the qpad uc or qck heavy, maybe because they are all black. For the record the qpad uc-50 is longer than my puretrak talent, so it's not like i can't replicate the swipe on my black pads coz they are too short









If someone has a talent and a new ec1/ec2 would be so glad to test that? Maybe a colored pad could be enough, i dont know.

Except for this little inconvenient (not really a problem since only players with something like less than 0.8 sens 400 dpi could replicate this in game), i like this mouse a lot









*EDIT:* i uploaded a video about the issue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SmUP8FJ8M4
7 try, 1 time it happened (2nd swipe, you can hear the windows sound).


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> *EDIT:* i uploaded a video about the issue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SmUP8FJ8M4
> 7 try, 1 time it happened (2nd swipe, you can hear the windows sound).


Video is private, you should set it as "not listed" if you don't want it in your feed.


----------



## atarii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Video is private, you should set it as "not listed" if you don't want it in your feed.


done, thanks.

i tried on the uc with all the dpi settings, nothing strange happens :|


----------



## backie

anyone taken their ec2-a apart? wondering if I can swap my white ec2 evo case with this one.


----------



## shatterboxd3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *backie*
> 
> anyone taken their ec2-a apart? wondering if I can swap my white ec2 evo case with this one.


Someone else had messaged zowie support and asked the same. They said they don't advise it but it's the same shell.


----------



## dmbr

Well, I'm switching back to Zowie.

While I do believe that the KPM is a better mouse (software suite with macros and surface calibration, on the fly DPI switching, 100 DPI increments with a higher max DPI, etc.), all the important stuff on the EC-2A is just as good...and I prefer the grip and button clicks.


----------



## 7Teku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> *better mouse*
> 
> *software suite with macros and surface calibration, on the fly DPI switching, 100 DPI increments with a higher max DPI, etc.*.


Are those seriously being used in the same sentence?

I mean macros are a preference and surface calibration _can_ be nice I suppose, everything else is just... ugh...


----------



## dmbr

Explain?


----------



## Nilizum

Does the FAQ for raising/lowering LOD (button combination) work for you guys? Doesn't seem to do anything for me...

If you feel the lift-off distance is too low

Please disconnect the mouse and hold down M5 + M1 and then connect the mouse through USB

If it still feels too low after the step above

Please disconnect the mouse and hold down M4 + M1 and then connect the mouse through USB


----------



## Maximillion

It worked for me. When I tried to use my EC2-A on a 4HD (just for testing purposes) the LOD was too high for me. I lowered it via those instructions and it was around the same as it is on cloth. The mouse wouldn't track at all on cloth after doing it though, so I reverted back to default.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Does the FAQ for raising/lowering LOD (button combination) work for you guys? Doesn't seem to do anything for me...
> 
> If you feel the lift-off distance is too low
> 
> Please disconnect the mouse and hold down M5 + M1 and then connect the mouse through USB
> 
> If it still feels too low after the step above
> 
> Please disconnect the mouse and hold down M4 + M1 and then connect the mouse through USB


Like I said it works for me.
Standard LOD is less than 1CD, "high" LOD is exactly 2CDs


----------



## Nilizum

No matter what I try I keep getting 1CD.


----------



## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> It worked for me. When I tried to use my EC2-A on a 4HD (just for testing purposes) the LOD was too high for me. I lowered it via those instructions and it was around the same as it is on cloth. The mouse wouldn't track at all on cloth after doing it though, so I reverted back to default.


Why would you care if it's too high?


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> Why would you care if it's too high?


I guess I've just grown accustomed to low LOD. I find going to a mouse or surface that has higher LOD distracting. Just my preference.


----------



## Aventadoor

Is the Finalmouse 2015 really that excellent that some make it?
I'm getting my EC2-A next week, but idk... Such lightweight ergo mice looks tempting!


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Is the Finalmouse 2015 really that excellent that some make it?
> I'm getting my EC2-A next week, but idk... Such lightweight ergo mice looks tempting!


As far as sensor implementation goes, yes. Regarding the mouse as a whole...YMMV.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> No matter what I try I keep getting 1CD.


Is that one CD flat or standing on its side?


----------



## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I guess I've just grown accustomed to low LOD. I find going to a mouse or surface that has higher LOD distracting. Just my preference.


oh ok, from how you said it, it looked like there was some downside in having an higher LOD


----------



## karbz

first try with my ec-2 a.
without beeing excited, this is by far the best mouse shape wise for a big handed claw/palm gripper or any hybrid of those two that i have ever tried.
zowie fixed the scroll wheel ****, buttons feel crispy and not even nearly as hard to push as the original fk. sensor feels excellent as expected.

so far, the best mouse of zowie by far.

still waiting to see a final mouse europe release (if it will have 1000hz at all anytime).


----------



## BiGsTaR

I just received my EC-2a.
So far I like what I'm seeing. There's a massive improvement on the scroll wheel and main buttons comparing this to Zowie AM. Shape fits my hand pretty well so no complaints there. The only thing I don't like right now are side buttons, there are much to soft and feel unresponsive.


----------



## Sencha

Mine's just been dispatched from OcUK. They just got them in today. Will post a few impressions although there's looks like there won't be much to say. LOL


----------



## Sencha

Got it!

So far only played a little
-scroll wheel feels better then the FK1, tighter, smoother and more quite.
-prefer the shape, fits my hand superb. Although FK1 was also great....this has the edge for now.
-clicks are a little too light for my taste, right click a touch lighter but this seems to be a common thing with Zowie mice and indeed a lot of other mice. Was using a WMO and both clicks are lighter then that. Much prefer FK1 clicks at the moment.

After 10 mins I'm adjusting well to the lighter clicks but would have preferred slightly heavier ones, I think this is more because for the last couple of years I've used the AM/FK I'm sure in time going back to those will feel too heavy.

Even with bone dry hands the mouse is easy to hold. Its feels light and fits my hand (22cm from base to tip) extremely well. Will be ditching the FK1 for this as my daily mouse.

edit: oh and would have preferred a solid black scroll wheel with the DPI indicator led underneath. Although at 400dpi which is what I use it does match the red LEDs well on my black Realforce keyboard. Being in my mid 30s I'll take no LEDs every time though.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Got it!
> 
> So far only played a little
> -scroll wheel feels better then the FK1, tighter, smoother and more quite.
> -prefer the shape, fits my hand superb. Although FK1 was also great....this has the edge for now.
> -clicks are a little too light for my taste, right click a touch lighter but this seems to be a common thing with Zowie mice and indeed a lot of other mice. Was using a WMO and both clicks are lighter then that. Much prefer FK1 clicks at the moment.
> 
> After 10 mins I'm adjusting well to the lighter clicks but would have preferred slightly heavier ones, I think this is more because for the last couple of years I've used the AM/FK I'm sure in time going back to those will feel too heavy.
> 
> Even with bone dry hands the mouse is easy to hold. Its feels light and fits my hand (22cm from base to tip) extremely well. Will be ditching the FK1 for this as my daily mouse.
> 
> edit: oh and would have preferred a solid black scroll wheel with the DPI indicator led underneath. Although at 400dpi which is what I use it does match the red LEDs well on my black Realforce keyboard. Being in my mid 30s I'll take no LEDs every time though.


Did you get the EC1-A or EC2-A?

I'm back on the FK, so far nothing can beat that shape for me. The EC2-A felt really comfortable, probably more so than the FK1, but my aim is better with the FK1.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Did you get the EC1-A or EC2-A?
> 
> I'm back on the FK, so far nothing can beat that shape for me. The EC2-A felt really comfortable, probably more so than the FK1, but my aim is better with the FK1.


That's actually what I'm finding after half an hours play. Feels superb in hand but aim not as good. Can see myself going back to the FK1 soon.

got the EC2 BTW

Tempted to pick up a Avior 7000 now. You got one Ino? how'd you find it?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> That's actually what I'm finding after half an hours play. Feels superb in hand but aim not as good. Can see myself going back to the FK1 soon.
> 
> got the EC2 BTW
> 
> Tempted to pick up a Avior 7000 now. You got one Ino? how'd you find it?


Nope, never had the Avior because I was sceptical of the side buttons getting in the way and no shop with an easy return policy had it. Then when it was on Amazon I lost interest already as I had the FK1.


----------



## Sencha

Cool,

The Ec2 buttons are also not as nice as the FK1. On my unit mouse 2 is very easy to trigger. I don't like it. The buttons lack what makes the Huano's good. May as well just use Nomrons (nom nom)


----------



## BiGsTaR

I on the other love the new buttons of EC2a not only because they're more responsive, but also because they're easier to click than AM for example. The layout is almost perfect so I'm not even worried about accidentally clicking buttons.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Nope, never had the Avior because I was sceptical of the side buttons getting in the way and no shop with an easy return policy had it. Then when it was on Amazon I lost interest already as I had the FK1.


Yeah kind of the same thing with me. I'm tempted but the grooves put me off. I'm going to get the FK2 next. Just fancy something different/smaller then the FK1. Was going to pick up a 302 but you kind of put me off that


----------



## thizito

Wmo and FK is completly different
Intelimouse 1.1 is pretty like am

I prefer the three microsoft mices shape btw
Maybe more oldschool


----------



## LegoFarmer

It has a red led wheel?







Darn. That killed it for me.


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> It has a red led wheel?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Darn. That killed it for me.


Depending on what dpi you use.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Lol that's perfect because I normally rock 1600 dpi and the 1600 dpi on there is blue, which is the color of my set up...


----------



## sonskusa

wish the wheel just stayed white, by far my favorite color on the thing


----------



## LegoFarmer

Yeah, they could have put a button on the bottom that locks the color, but it is whatever. Would have added weight and such. I'll more than likely ditch my g502 for this.


----------



## Kyal

i wish they had the LED on the bottom for the dpi like the fk's & am


----------



## mj1911

The LED is easy to remove if your not worried about opening it up. I took mine out within a hour after verifying the unit was defect free. I don't need a LED to know what the dpi setting is.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mj1911*
> 
> The LED is easy to remove if your not worried about opening it up. I took mine out within a hour after verifying the unit was defect free. I don't need a LED to know what the dpi setting is.


Thanks for the info. I would have definitely done that if I was going to continue to use the mouse.


----------



## Razor 116

Anyone using this on a QCK+, Having issues with mine on this pad. Lifting the mouse up for any period of time above 5cm then putting it back down it doesn't track until I press hard or move it fast.


----------



## Sencha

I was using it on a QCK Heavy. But I wasn't lifting it that high on swipes. More like just 1-2cm. Was acting just the same as the FK1


----------



## Razor 116

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> I was using it on a QCK Heavy. But I wasn't lifting it that high on swipes. More like just 1-2cm. Was acting just the same as the FK1


Well looks like another QA issue, Mine is not acting remotely like my FK1 *sigh


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razor 116*
> 
> Well looks like another QA issue, Mine is not acting remotely like my FK1 *sigh


Something's up then. Get it RMA'd


----------



## Razor 116

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Something's up then. Get it RMA'd


Started the RMA process, So annoying bought this weeks ago and waited just to get a faulty unit.


----------



## Aventadoor

I hate Zowie RMA. You have to send the mice to Spain...
Steelseries I just have to send it to Denmark


----------



## pgabor

Have you tried to change the lod?

From Ino's review:
"The standard LOD out of the box is adjusted for cloth pads to be around 1.5 - 1.8 mm. However this would mean a higher LOD on a plastic pad (2.2 - 2.4 mm). To enable "plastic mouse pad mode" you have to hold Button 4 and Button 2 (back button on the side and right mouse button) while plugging the FK1 in. This causes the LOD to be around 1.5 - 1.8 mm on a plastic mouse pad (and around 1 mm on a cloth mouse pad)

To switch back to "cloth mouse pad mode" you have to plug it in while holding Button 4 and Button 1 (back button on the side and left mouse button).

Now there is also the so called "original mode". This sets the LOD to be on a standard level and therefore should optimize the mouse compatibility for players with special material mousepads. It will have higher LOD than all other settings. So this is useful for those players who prefer a higher LOD (looking at you Dontspamme). You get the "original mode" by holding Button 4, 1 and 2 at the same time while plugging the FK1 in."


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razor 116*
> 
> Started the RMA process, So annoying bought this weeks ago and waited just to get a faulty unit.


Where'd you get it from....OcUK?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> I hate Zowie RMA. You have to send the mice to Spain...
> Steelseries I just have to send it to Denmark


Not Spain but Portugal


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mj1911*
> 
> The LED is easy to remove if your not worried about opening it up. I took mine out within a hour after verifying the unit was defect free. I don't need a LED to know what the dpi setting is.


Interesting I opened mine up but forgot to look for it!


----------



## zwacki

got my ec1a today, sensor is flawless this time but mousewheel button is broken


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Versus2190*
> 
> I got my EC2-A today and here are a few impressions:
> 
> - no wheel issue oO
> 
> - quite a bit of positive acceleration (similar to the Aviors (3) I've tried)
> 
> - high click latency is still noticeable while sniping
> 
> - I find the tracking on Avior and g400 better (ss qck heavy +)
> 
> - my recoil control is bad compared to Avior or g400 for some reason
> 
> The 400 cpi step ist ~384 cpi in real (maybe useful for someone)
> 
> Back to g400


Acceleration? RMA? I have heard the sensor is a dream.


----------



## dmbr

Yeah...not sure what he's talking about. Sensor feels utterly perfect to me, and the button latency has been tested here and is perfectly fine.


----------



## tom2k11

Got an EC2-A yesterday, and no real complaints. I had two FK1s that had broken scroll wheels but this one feels much, much better.

Sensor is fine, coating is fine, shape great as expected of EC2-A.

Only small gripe is that the bottom of the mouse is dragging a little on my pad, I can hear a small noise that suggests so, but can't feel it.


----------



## daav1d

I am using my EC2-A for now as well. Really slippery for me however, I will try switch shell with my white EC2 eVo.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Would anybody happen to know the thickness of the feet on these? I heard the speedy skates are actually thicker than the original, and I also heard tiger gaming sells them at stock thickness (Which appears to be .45mm) Is this correct? Thanks, guys.


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Would anybody happen to know the thickness of the feet on these? I heard the speedy skates are actually thicker than the original, and I also heard tiger gaming sells them at stock thickness (Which appears to be .45mm) Is this correct? Thanks, guys.


.45mm stock
Zowie Speedy Skatez Replacement is .65


----------



## treav0r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creizai*
> 
> .45mm stock
> Zowie Speedy Skatez Replacement is .65


nope, both are the exact same .45mm (the included ones and the Speedy Skatez-BF)


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treav0r*
> 
> nope, both are the exact same .45mm (the included ones and the Speedy Skatez-BF)


That was the thickness I measured for the stock feet and the extras Zowie gave me.


----------



## Aventadoor

I got my EC2 today. It is difficult to swipe fast horizontally... I have to get used to it after using Rival and DA

edit: I almost wish I bought the EC1 instead bcuz of the size, its smaller then I thought


----------



## dazerro

I got mine EC2-A today too, after few hours with it i can say its the best mouse i ever used so far.









I had Steelseries Rival, Sensei RAW and Deathadder 3,5g/2013 previously, zowie size is the most comfortable mouse for me in terms of size and grip.

Only - for me is scroll working kinda heavily compared to my old mouses, i think i need to get used to it.


----------



## Aventadoor

Funny... I tried to get 500hz, which you have to hold M5 and plug it in, unfortunaly it dident work.
So the manual is incorrect, to get 500hz, u need to hold M4 and plug it in...
Just tells something about how little money Zowie invest in their products.
Its truly minimalistic in every single way


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Funny... I tried to get 500hz, which you have to hold M5 and plug it in, unfortunaly it dident work.
> So the manual is incorrect, to get 500hz, u need to hold M4 and plug it in...
> Just tells something about how little money Zowie invest in their products.
> Its truly minimalistic in every single way


Sure you didn't confuse m4 and m5?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Maybe you had the buttons confused with each other lol. Pretty sure mouse 5 is the back side button


----------



## Conditioned

Whats the best dpi in terms of tracking for this mouse?


----------



## Aventadoor

In my manual it says the sidebutton with the front of the mice is M4, and the one towards the rear of the mice is M5, so no, I shouldent click the wrong one


----------



## detto87

@contäditioned there is no best


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Whats the best dpi in terms of tracking for this mouse?


The last step could have some jitter, haven't tested, but 3310 is capable of doing native steps of 50 cpi, so no difference.


----------



## bond10

How much size difference EC2-A compared to the deathadder? Just smaller all around?


----------



## Ino.

A bit smaller all around, but mainly the concave right side front is missing on the EC2-A, which is a good thing imo.


----------



## Maximillion

Yeah, I went from an EC1 eVo CL to EC2-A. Prefer the smaller size. Using it as my main atm but I still _slightly_ prefer ambi mice so may go back to one of those with a future purchase.


----------



## bobsaget

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Yeah, I went from an EC1 eVo CL to EC2-A. Prefer the smaller size. Using it as my main atm but I still _slightly_ prefer ambi mice so may go back to one of those with a future purchase.


What makes you say that?
I'm feeling good with my current fk, but I'd like to try the ec2 a. Your feedback could interest me


----------



## Aventadoor

500 or 1000hz?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> In my manual it says the sidebutton with the front of the mice is M4, and the one towards the rear of the mice is M5, so no, I shouldent click the wrong one


That is strange. It would be good for you to contact Zowie and let them know of their misprint. it is correct on other mice of theirs.


----------



## Aventadoor

Well am I the only 1 who experience this?
It clearly says in the manual that M5 is the 500hz button.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Mouse 5 as in the Mouse 5 labeled on the box, or mouse 5 as in what is normally mouse 5 (Front side button)? Know what I mean? Like you said Mouse 4 in the manual is in the front, and Mouse 5 in the manual is in the back, the manual says M5 is for 500Hz meaning you had to push the rear button (What they call mouse5) or the front button (What we call M5)? It is probably a misprint and should be addressed. Things happen, I guess. They had it right on their other mice. It would be good to let them know of their mistake is all.


----------



## Aventadoor

Oh yeah I see it now on the FK1 box.
Mouse 5 is on the front and mouse 4 is on the rear indeed.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Oh yeah I see it now on the FK1 box.
> Mouse 5 is on the front and mouse 4 is on the rear indeed.


Yeah, I would just let them know out of courtesy. I'm going to be ditching my G502 for this. Liking it?


----------



## teeg

Where have I seen the new Zowie logo before?



Oh.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teeg*
> 
> Where have I seen the new Zowie logo before?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh.


Lol I doubt it inspired their new logo.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget*
> 
> What makes you say that?
> I'm feeling good with my current fk, but I'd like to try the ec2 a. Your feedback could interest me


While the EC2-A "cups" my hand better than any other mouse I've tried so far I still feel that ambi mice are more natural for me. I feel like I have more control and a greater level of precision. With ergo mice I feel like I'm "driving" the mouse whereas with ambi I actually feel as though I'm "pointing" it. @metal571 puts it best when he describes it as feeling more like holding a pencil (applies to any grip for me).


----------



## thrillhaus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> While the EC2-A "cups" my hand better than any other mouse I've tried so far I still feel that ambi mice are more natural for me. I feel like I have more control and a greater level of precision. With ergo mice I feel like I'm "driving" the mouse whereas with ambi I actually feel as though I'm "pointing" it. @metal571 puts it best when he describes it as feeling more like holding a pencil (applies to any grip for me).


The buttons being lower to the mousing surface is probably the reason for that. Your finger feels closer to pointing at a spot on the mousepad than when higher up.


----------



## metal571

I'm famous


----------



## Aventadoor

1 thing ive noticed is that it feels kinda slow, I almost have to increase sens in-game to compensate.
Atleast coming from Rival & DA2013


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teeg*
> 
> Where have I seen the new Zowie logo before?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh.


Don't forget Shazam.


----------



## Shiotcrock

So you can't fine tune the sensitivity of this mouse like in Steelseries engine 3 ??


----------



## LegoFarmer

Zowie is all about driverless mice, so there's no software to do things like that. You can cycle through 4 DPI steps of 400-800-1600-and 3200, and you can also change the polling rate.


----------



## ramraze

The reason why some prefer ambi and some ergo really differs. It depends on what shape you're used to, what kind of grip you have, what game you play, what sens you have, hand size etc. My point is that people have to find out what works for them, not just copy top esports player or whatnot. Regardless, there are certain aspects that are universal in giving the player better control and feeling.
For fast-paced games it's light weight, for track-aim heavy games it's certain amount of width, etc. There are many things to consider, but comfort doesn't always equal performance. It's about finding the best combination, I guess. Both comfort and performance can go hand-in-hand.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: Shiotcrock



Originally Posted by *Shiotcrock* 


> So you can't fine tune the sensitivity of this mouse like in Steelseries engine 3 ??






If you are looking for useful sensor functionality built into the PMW-3310 such as being able to change CPI in small increments (50cpi) and fine tune lift off distance then best to not buy Zowie.


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> The reason why some prefer ambi and some ergo really differs. It depends on what shape you're used to, what kind of grip you have, what game you play, what sens you have, hand size etc. My point is that people have to find out what works for them, not just copy top esports player or whatnot. Regardless, there are certain aspects that are universal in giving the player better control and feeling.
> For fast-paced games it's light weight, for track-aim heavy games it's certain amount of width, etc. There are many things to consider, but comfort doesn't always equal performance. It's about finding the best combination, I guess. Both comfort and performance can go hand-in-hand.


I picked up an EC1-A thinking it would be more comfortable than my FK1 since I have slightly larger hands. It is definitely more comfortable, but I can't seem to get used to it. I never feel like I have as much control as I do with the FK1. I'd probably still work on it, but the side buttons were more mushy, the scroll didn't seem as nice, and most annoyingly to me was the brightness of the LED. I wouldn't mind a dull glow, but this was a bit bright. Not sure what I'll do with it since I don't think I can return it to amazon since it wasn't an amazon item.


----------



## papalazaru

I have the same thing, you're not alone. Although I have big hands, I much prefer the shape of the FK1 to the EC1, even though bigger would suit me more (WMO size, more width and height).


----------



## Ihateallmice

got myself a EC2-A and opened it up and moved over the insides to my EC2 evo glossy shell and it works great. you can't really switch scrollwheels as it won't fit, but the old one works just fine. the lens is the same length but it doesn't fit perfectly because the new lens is wider than the cut-out in the old evo mouse. it doesn't cause any tracking problems, but it's still worth mentioning. tge new cable is better than the old evo one so I moved it over as well. I attached some speedy skatez and am now playing CSGO with it!

as for why I chose the old glossy shell is simply because my hands never sweat, so glossy gives me a much better grip and it doesn't get dirty or leave any finger marks. oh and I also destroyed that horrible scrollwheel LED.


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> got myself a EC2-A and opened it up and moved over the insides to my EC2 evo glossy shell and it works great. you can't really switch scrollwheels as it won't fit, but the old one works just fine. the lens is the same length but it doesn't fit perfectly because the new lens is wider than the cut-out in the old evo mouse. it doesn't cause any tracking problems, but it's still worth mentioning. tge new cable is better than the old evo one so I moved it over as well. I attached some speedy skatez and am now playing CSGO with it!
> 
> as for why I chose the old glossy shell is simply because my hands never sweat, so glossy gives me a much better grip and it doesn't get dirty or leave any finger marks. oh and I also destroyed that horrible scrollwheel LED.


Very interesting man, glad you did it. I've been thinking about it myself but I'm kind of in that in between spot of prefering fk over ec due to history of claw.


----------



## backie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> got myself a EC2-A and opened it up and moved over the insides to my EC2 evo glossy shell and it works great. you can't really switch scrollwheels as it won't fit, but the old one works just fine. the lens is the same length but it doesn't fit perfectly because the new lens is wider than the cut-out in the old evo mouse. it doesn't cause any tracking problems, but it's still worth mentioning. tge new cable is better than the old evo one so I moved it over as well. I attached some speedy skatez and am now playing CSGO with it!
> 
> as for why I chose the old glossy shell is simply because my hands never sweat, so glossy gives me a much better grip and it doesn't get dirty or leave any finger marks. oh and I also destroyed that horrible scrollwheel LED.


Why didn't you just keep the black base? It fits perfectly with the 24 step scroll wheel with my evo shell, don't have to sacrifice sensor position also.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> got myself a EC2-A and opened it up and moved over the insides to my EC2 evo glossy shell and it works great. you can't really switch scrollwheels as it won't fit, but the old one works just fine. the lens is the same length but it doesn't fit perfectly because the new lens is wider than the cut-out in the old evo mouse. it doesn't cause any tracking problems, but it's still worth mentioning. tge new cable is better than the old evo one so I moved it over as well. I attached some speedy skatez and am now playing CSGO with it!
> 
> as for why I chose the old glossy shell is simply because my hands never sweat, so glossy gives me a much better grip and it doesn't get dirty or leave any finger marks. oh and I also destroyed that horrible scrollwheel LED.


doesn't the top shell(+the sidepart) just fit on the bottom part of the ec2-a, with the ec2-a insides untouched?


----------



## backie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> doesn't the top shell(+the sidepart) just fit on the bottom part of the ec2-a, with the ec2-a insides untouched?


Yes thats what I did with mine


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *backie*
> 
> Yes thats what I did with mine


son... i'm appoint.


----------



## Ihateallmice

righto, quickly opened it up and changed the bottom part to the black one. not sure if it was worth the time but I might as well be on the safe side when it comes to the tracking part. the sensor wasn't out of position however, but it's nice to change to the other scrollwheel. kind of ruins my white/gray aesthetics but I'll live. cheers!


----------



## Ihateallmice

couldn't stand how it looked, so I changed the top shell to the black one as well. now the mouse is entirely black and white and the sides are glossy. went from full mod to glossy sides and no scroll LED, oh well lol


----------



## LegoFarmer

I'd love a tut on removing the led, and how is the mouse? Might ditch my g502.


----------



## Ihateallmice

http://www.overclock.net/t/1488596/how-to-open-up-a-zowie-ec1

I recommend removing the entire sticker on the bottom of the mouse that is hiding two of the screws. if you clean it properly aftewards it looks so much better. after you remove the 5 screws, open it up and just smash the LED near the scrollwheel. Remember, the two front screws don't need to be fully removed for the case to open, so just pay attention when something isn't coming out further as there might be a reason for it. I don't know what tools you need as I have like 50 different small screw drive heads. you also only need to remove the bottom mouse feet.

the mouse itself looks to be the best thing zowie has released so far. only thing bad about it is the terrible side buttons. they are truly awful, but they still get the job done.


----------



## LegoFarmer

What makes the side buttons bad? I'm not picky about feel that much, I just use then to switch to primary and secondary weapon.


----------



## Ihateallmice

they feel cheap and plasticy. the feedback when clicking them feels soft/muddy... dunno how to explain it better. the buttons also go into the shell itself a little, so I assume the travel distance/click latency is worse for it. they're really mediocre, but you should have no problem switching weapons using them.


----------



## Sencha

I really didn't like the side buttons on the EC2. They had a lot of pre-travel. And almost felt broken. I'm sure I could get used to the them to the point of not noticing but going back to the FK1 felt soooo much better.


----------



## phamtom

Ino,how is the build quality compared to the FK1?


----------



## Ino.

Similar, typical Zowie I'd say, so pretty good. Anything in particular that you want to know?


----------



## phamtom

My old ec1 CL made a bit of a cracking noise if i pressed where the bottom of the mouse and the sides press. I hope that makes sense


----------



## scardd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phamtom*
> 
> My old ec1 CL made a bit of a cracking noise if i pressed where the bottom of the mouse and the sides press. I hope that makes sense


that cracking noise is still there (at least for my ec2-a) if your talking about the bottom right side of the mouse.
another problem with the build quality are the side buttons (esp the mouse4 / back one). The sidebuttons are still very "mushy" and the back button gets pressed quiet far into the shell which feels quiet bad







.

Other than that I have no issues with the build quality of mine (and the cracking noise doesnt bother me at all since it never happens with regular use. Didnt even know it existed before i tried to make it happen







).
Mousewheel seems improved, clicks are similar to the old ec2-eVo (less latency at least based on that smashing test) and the shell is 1-1 the same.
Coating feels similar to the ec1-evo in that it is really slippery when you have dry hands but gets grippy when your hands get moist a little.


----------



## Ihateallmice




----------



## p0ps

Your mouse gives me wood


----------



## LegoFarmer

It'll sound so weird Lol but can anybody make a video of the side buttons? Click action compared to something like the deathadder?


----------



## scardd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> It'll sound so weird Lol but can anybody make a video of the side buttons? Click action compared to something like the deathadder?


No comparison but a small video about the wobble and another issue.
a bit potato quality but its visible











mouse5 (forward) button is way better than the back one. i actually struggle to wobble it without pressing it

*edit:* seems to be only like that on a few mice.


----------



## LegoFarmer

I feel like those would be easy fixes by opening it up and putting something smell between the button and switch to prevent it from going in the shell


----------



## phamtom

what
the... mine doesn't do that


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phamtom*
> 
> what
> the... mine doesn't do that


When did you get it? They might have fixed it.


----------



## jFoor

Got my EC2-A yesterday in the mail and after only a few CS:GO hours put in here are my observations:

-Love the new scroll wheel, never used the updated 24 step one that was included w/ the Evo CL. Never realized how bad the old one actually was before trying this out. I love it, have heard that some people still don't.

-Love the new coating. I liked the old coating on the Evo line because I could grip it really well. This seems to be "grippy" too but not as sticky and tacky feeling. It's more of a dry grip if that makes sense. Haven't used the FK's to compare but I guess it's similar if not the same.

-Sensor feels like the most raw mouse I have used other than the WMO and part of that feeling to me is just due to the extremely low weight of the WMO. This is compared to a WMO, EC1 Evo, EC2 Evo, G400, G402, Deathadder Chroma, Steelseries Rival and Sensei. Probably due to the 3310 sensor, or placebo due to what I've read of the 3310 sensor.

-When I first got my EC2 Evo I thought I noticed some button latency compared to my old G400, noticed it especially when AWPing and compared to what I've read here on OCN that seems to have been proven. This EC2-A feels better to me but the difference is barely noticeable.

-Side buttons (Mouse 4 & 5) are just as bad as they were on the Evos.

I play Q3 and CS:GO at 400 DPI, 2.5 in game sensitivity, rInput , no accel


----------



## Nova.

Can someone give me a quick rundown on the difference between the two? I am thinking of replacing my current DA with something newer.


----------



## jFoor

The only difference is size. They're listed in the link @ post #1. EC1 is larger, some have compared it to a wider version of the deathadder and the EC2 is smaller. Not sure what to compare that to.


----------



## phamtom

i got it last friday


----------



## 8thwonderuk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*


Just received mine and did this exact same mod. Like you I find the gloss way grippier but it feels even better than the full white to have a soft matte top where you don't need the grip. With the improved sensor and scroll wheel this is now my holy grail mouse I've been searching for. I will keep this one for years.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phamtom*
> 
> i got it last friday


So your side buttons don't wobble?


----------



## phamtom

neither of them, if try to press thm they don't wobble at all


----------



## remixedMind

hello i plan on buying the ec2-a and using my current pad (razer sphex) will it work ok with it? thanks


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phamtom*
> 
> neither of them, if try to press thm they don't wobble at all


Nice. Do the buttons sink into the shell?


----------



## phamtom

The bottom is flush with the shell but the upper part sticks a little, i can roll my thumb and activate them


----------



## LegoFarmer

Pic?


----------



## phamtom




----------



## ncck

Can anyone post a pic of a

EC2-A
FK1
And rival

Currently I have the rival and EC1-A, but something is just off with the EC1-A shape for me. I have long fingers and they're skinny (so I'd say a big hand)

I can palm/hybrid easily, full claw I never really do as it feels like **** and is pretty awful for doing flicks especially at my sensitivity

I'm thinking of going back to my rival (even though I'm performing pretty good with the EC1-a) roughly 99 ADR in CSGO @ 13+ RWS (not that it means much). But I do want to look at the FK1 and EC2-a in comparison.. maybe the smaller ec2a would fit me better? maybe I should of stuck with something more similar to the rival like the fk1.. I always figured I'd feel best full palm but the ec1-a doesn't really go into my palm 'right'


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Nice. Do the buttons sink into the shell?


My previous Zowie EC1 had an issue with the side button going to far into the shell. I sent it back for a EC2.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Nice. Do the buttons sink into the shell?


What about when you press them? Still don't go into the shell?


----------



## Ka0sX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8thwonderuk*
> 
> Just received mine and did this exact same mod. Like you I find the gloss way grippier but it feels even better than the full white to have a soft matte top where you don't need the grip. With the improved sensor and scroll wheel this is now my holy grail mouse I've been searching for. I will keep this one for years.


How the hell you do that? look awesome i want one


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *papalazaru*
> 
> I have the same thing, you're not alone. Although I have big hands, I much prefer the shape of the FK1 to the EC1, even though bigger would suit me more (WMO size, more width and height).


I decided to exchange my ec1-a for an ec2-a. I figure I might as well try the smaller one since I seem to be liking the fk1 a bit more at the moment. I'm still guessing I'll be right back to the fk1, but I can't stop myself from thinking just maybe...


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ka0sX*
> 
> How the hell you do that? look awesome i want one


I think the white part is the bottom half of the shell from the white version of the old EC mice. This is a pretty ballsy move seeing that it voids your warranty (I think).


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: scardd



Originally Posted by *scardd* 


> No comparison but a small video about the wobble and another issue.
> a bit potato quality but its visible
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> mouse5 (forward) button is way better than the back one. i actually struggle to wobble it without pressing it






That looks awful.


----------



## Ihateallmice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8thwonderuk*
> 
> Just received mine and did this exact same mod. Like you I find the gloss way grippier but it feels even better than the full white to have a soft matte top where you don't need the grip. With the improved sensor and scroll wheel this is now my holy grail mouse I've been searching for. I will keep this one for years.


haha awesome now there's 2 of us!


----------



## munchzilla

sorry about this but...








a little too much to go through in this thread, so I'll just ask and hope for replies:

button firmness, much harder than G302 if anyone has both?
scroll wheel still as bad as it was on the original EC series? or comparable to g502/g402/g302 now? which I think are okay.
cable soft/pliable... compared to g402/g302 terrible stiff cable?

and also is there a scroll wheel lottery like with the FK1, some good some terrible?

cheers!


----------



## scardd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> That looks awful.


Yeah, seems to be happening only on a few mice tho so it might not be representative.
Thought it was normal at first since i read that someone else here had the same issue, but seems like thats not the case.

I think i might try to check if I can get a replacement








And if not it actually doesnt bother me personally enough to render the mouse useless.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scardd*
> 
> Yeah, seems to be happening only on a few mice tho so it might not be representative.
> Thought it was normal at first since i read that someone else here had the same issue, but seems like thats not the case.
> 
> I think i might try to check if I can get a replacement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And if not it actually doesnt bother me personally enough to render the mouse useless.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1536056/zowie-releases-ec1-a-and-ec2-a/610#post_23562465

I had a mouse with a side button issue 2 years ago. Not a surprise there are newer batches with the same thing.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> sorry about this but...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> a little too much to go through in this thread, so I'll just ask and hope for replies:
> 
> button firmness, much harder than G302 if anyone has both?
> scroll wheel still as bad as it was on the original EC series? or comparable to g502/g402/g302 now? which I think are okay.
> cable soft/pliable... compared to g402/g302 terrible stiff cable?
> 
> and also is there a scroll wheel lottery like with the FK1, some good some terrible?
> 
> cheers!


I don't have a g302 to compare with, but mouse1 and mouse2 are very nicely weighted. They are heavier than the notoriously light buttons on the deathadder, but they are still light enough to easily press in rapid succession. I have heard mixed reports about the scroll wheel, some good and some bad, but zowie claims to have fixed it. The scroll wheel on the ECx-A series is actually lighter with more steps like the ECx Evo CL, so I wouldn't call the scroll wheel comparable to the ECx Evo mice. I have not personally felt the cable, but I expect that it is the same as the ECx Evo mice which have a soft flexible rubber cable which is so much more desirable than my Deathadder 2013's cable. I don't personally have an ECx-A mouse yet, but I know plenty of people that do, and my brother has an EC2 Evo, and zowie claims that the ECx-A mice are the same as the ECx Evo mice except with a better sensor, different coating, and fixed problems like the ECx Evo scroll wheel.

I actually just finished reading a bunch of your posts about mousepads, specifically the Artisan mosusepads, very helpful


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *offshell*
> 
> I decided to exchange my ec1-a for an ec2-a. I figure I might as well try the smaller one since I seem to be liking the fk1 a bit more at the moment. I'm still guessing I'll be right back to the fk1, but I can't stop myself from thinking just maybe...


Hi please do a follow up. I too have an ec1-a and it's a decent mouse but something feel 'off' about it.

I'm thinking about exchanging for an ec2 or going for an fk1. My hand size is large


----------



## ramen ramon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Hi please do a follow up. I too have an ec1-a and it's a decent mouse but something feel 'off' about it.
> 
> I'm thinking about exchanging for an ec2 or going for an fk1. My hand size is large


I'm a bit in the same boat, so i would also be interested.

On another note,I've been using this mouse with 500hz so far, and thought this would be a reporting bug, because i did try to switch it to 1000hz and it wouldn't change.
Now I realize that the Refresh rate is switched between M4/M5: 5 is 1000hz and 4 is 500. Really weird.
Windows functionality is as usual.


----------



## wes1099

Does anyone know how this mouse tracks on the various artisan mousepads?


----------



## Aventadoor

Ive had the EC2-A for a week now, and I cant seem to get along with it.
To me it feels somewhat disconnected. We dont get along very well...
Dont like the glide either. I prefer Steelseries Rival's implementation.


----------



## bond10

How does the shape and size compare with the Intellimouse Explorer 3.0?


----------



## jFoor

EC1 would be similar to the IE 3.0, maybe a little less flat, and more rounded than the IE as well. The EC2 would be smaller.


----------



## Axaion

the EC1 is quite a bit smaller than the IME 3.0 too, if some people are wondering.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Steelseries makes some great stuff, I'd take a Zowie over the Rival, though. I do love the feel of the rival, though. My mate got rid of his g502 for the rival.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Does anyone know how this mouse tracks on the various artisan mousepads?


Can confirm it working fine on the shiden-kai mid and hayate soft









I was thinking of grabbing a hien but the price tag for shipping is too much and I don't think it'll be that much better than my qck to pay again


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Does anyone know how this mouse tracks on the various artisan mousepads?
> 
> 
> 
> Can confirm it working fine on the shiden-kai mid and hayate soft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking of grabbing a hien but the price tag for shipping is too much and I don't think it'll be that much better than my qck to pay again
Click to expand...

awesome! I just need to figure out which artisan mousepad to get. I know I want something at QCK+ size or bigger, and I want glide a fast or faster than my current QCK+. I also need to order my EC1-a soon because my deathadder is getting really flaky now.


----------



## Aventadoor

Is it just me or is it difficult to swipe this mice horziontally? If I wanna turn 180 etc, its hard to do it perfectly horizontal...


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> I know I want something at QCK+ size or bigger,


Not gonna happen. The biggest they have is 42x35 or something.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Not gonna happen. The biggest they have is 42x35 or something.


Artisan has custom order option.


----------



## AnimalK

I pulled the trigger on an EC2-A.


----------



## amd24

Hello guys, I'm from Germany and ordered a Zowie EC1-A which has already arrived (ordered directly from the german distributor).
Shape of the mouse is perfectly made for my hands (18.5 cm).

BUT:
I've got a problem with a squeaking scroll wheel. Wheel also gets stuck every second or third time pressing.

I'm not the only one with this problem and have read about the same problem of a guy (german forum). He used the mouse just one week and get exactly above mentioned problems.

Have some of you guys experienced problems with the scroll wheel. I will get a new one from my retailer and hope that problem is "one (two) in a million".


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Is it just me or is it difficult to swipe this mice horziontally? If I wanna turn 180 etc, its hard to do it perfectly horizontal...


Noticed the same thing. I had big trouble moving horizontally with the EC2-A without going left-down and right-up.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Can't decide between EC1 and EC2. Here is my grip... Suggestions?


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Noticed the same thing. I had big trouble moving horizontally with the EC2-A without going left-down and right-up.


Yeah, I must hold it kinda uncomfertable in order to get good swipe.
What mice did u come from?
I came Rival and DA2013.
Both mice I have to hold a lil funny to swipe proporly...


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Yeah, I must hold it kinda uncomfertable in order to get good swipe.
> What mice did u come from?
> I came Rival and DA2013.
> Both mice I have to hold a lil funny to swipe proporly...


Coming from Rival,FK1,G100S,WMO.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> I don't have a g302 to compare with, but mouse1 and mouse2 are very nicely weighted. They are heavier than the notoriously light buttons on the deathadder, but they are still light enough to easily press in rapid succession. I have heard mixed reports about the scroll wheel, some good and some bad, but zowie claims to have fixed it. The scroll wheel on the ECx-A series is actually lighter with more steps like the ECx Evo CL, so I wouldn't call the scroll wheel comparable to the ECx Evo mice. I have not personally felt the cable, but I expect that it is the same as the ECx Evo mice which have a soft flexible rubber cable which is so much more desirable than my Deathadder 2013's cable. I don't personally have an ECx-A mouse yet, but I know plenty of people that do, and my brother has an EC2 Evo, and zowie claims that the ECx-A mice are the same as the ECx Evo mice except with a better sensor, different coating, and fixed problems like the ECx Evo scroll wheel.
> 
> I actually just finished reading a bunch of your posts about mousepads, specifically the Artisan mosusepads, very helpful


cool - I am going to go and see if I can try one out then...







DA buttons were indeed a bit light, I would end up just holding it instead of clicking it when I used that. my hands are a bit big and clumsy. but original FK is just too hard to press for my liking.

and cheers to that, Artisan pads are great! if only they weren't so pricy for the custom orders, I really need a giant mousepad.

thank you


----------



## walker75

Just bought a zowie ec2-a. Great mouse in my opinion, and i had along the years about all good mice. Until now i was using deathadder and zowie fk1. Deathadder is a good mouse, but a little heavy for my taste, and the shape is not the best. Every time i grabbed it to to make a fast turn i hit mouse 2 accidentally. Fk1 is really good, but i wanted something more comfortable, plus i read about the click latency, though i couldn't tell. So this is my experience with ec2-a so far: very comfy, fit my hand like a glove (i have medium hands, with hybrid palm-claw grip). The tracking is really good, as expected from avago 3310 sensor, and i have no complains with the side buttons either. Maybe a little mushy, not the best tactile feedback but works properly, without wobbling. After i plugged in the mouse and played CS GO for about half an hour at the same settings as fk1, i was thinking what the hell is wrong with this mouse, as it seems to be tracking slower than fk1 though it shouldn't as they share the same sensor and all. After i analyzed them both i realized the difference. Fk1 is longer, and the sensor is placed right in middle, while ec2-a is smaller and has the sensor placed a little backwards, so the sensor on fk1 is traveling longer at the same swipe, as being with about 4 cm further to my wrist. I increased ingame sensitivity, and eureka: the best mouse i ever used. I hope this helped


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *walker75*
> 
> Just bought a zowie ec2-a. Great mouse in my opinion, and i had along the years about all good mice. Until now i was using deathadder and zowie fk1. Deathadder is a good mouse, but a little heavy for my taste, and the shape is not the best. Every time i grabbed it to to make a fast turn i hit mouse 2 accidentally. Fk1 is really good, but i wanted something more comfortable, plus i read about the click latency, though i couldn't tell. So this is my experience with ec2-a so far: very comfy, fit my hand like a glove (i have medium hands, with hybrid palm-claw grip). The tracking is really good, as expected from avago 3310 sensor, and i have no complains with the side buttons either. Maybe a little mushy, not the best tactile feedback but works properly, without wobbling. After i plugged in the mouse and played CS GO for about half an hour at the same settings as fk1, i was thinking what the hell is wrong with this mouse, as it seems to be tracking slower than fk1 though it shouldn't as they share the same sensor and all. After i analyzed them both i realized the difference. Fk1 is longer, and the sensor is placed right in middle, while ec2-a is smaller and has the sensor placed a little backwards, so the sensor on fk1 is traveling longer at the same swipe, as being with about 5 cm further to my wrist. I increased ingame sensitivity, and eureka: the best mouse i ever used. I hope this helped


That's very interesting, may I ask what was your before and after sensitivity?


----------



## walker75

Before i played with raw input on, 400 dpi, 500 hz and 2.4 ingame. After, i changed ingame from 2.4 to 2.8 to compensate the less sensor travel.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *walker75*
> 
> Just bought a zowie ec2-a. Great mouse in my opinion, and i had along the years about all good mice. Until now i was using deathadder and zowie fk1. Deathadder is a good mouse, but a little heavy for my taste, and the shape is not the best. Every time i grabbed it to to make a fast turn i hit mouse 2 accidentally. Fk1 is really good, but i wanted something more comfortable, plus i read about the click latency, though i couldn't tell. So this is my experience with ec2-a so far: very comfy, fit my hand like a glove (i have medium hands, with hybrid palm-claw grip). The tracking is really good, as expected from avago 3310 sensor, and i have no complains with the side buttons either. Maybe a little mushy, not the best tactile feedback but works properly, without wobbling. After i plugged in the mouse and played CS GO for about half an hour at the same settings as fk1, i was thinking what the hell is wrong with this mouse, as it seems to be tracking slower than fk1 though it shouldn't as they share the same sensor and all. After i analyzed them both i realized the difference. Fk1 is longer, and the sensor is placed right in middle, while ec2-a is smaller and has the sensor placed a little backwards, so the sensor on fk1 is traveling longer at the same swipe, as being with about 4 cm further to my wrist. I increased ingame sensitivity, and eureka: the best mouse i ever used. I hope this helped


The ec2-a is 120mm and the sensor is placed about 57mm from the top, front part of the mouse.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Is it just me or is it difficult to swipe this mice horziontally? If I wanna turn 180 etc, its hard to do it perfectly horizontal...


Thought it was just me on my EC1 EVO.


----------



## Aventadoor

I dont like the clicks on EC2 either.
I prefer the EC1 eVo CL clicks more, as they are more clicky.
EC2 is sort of like the DA, clicky, but spongy


----------



## LegoFarmer

Hey, mate. I posted a picture of my grip on a G502, think the EC2-A would suit me better than the EC1-A? Thanks


----------



## wes1099

I give up on artisan pads. Too much time and money and it doesn't seem worth it. So which of these two should I get with my EC1-A ; *PureTrak Talent*, or *Glorious XL Heavy Gaming Mouse Mat*?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> I give up on artisan pads. Too much time and money and it doesn't seem worth it. So which of these two should I get with my EC1-A ; *PureTrak Talent*, or *Glorious XL Heavy Gaming Mouse Mat*?


Somebody reported issues with the PureTrak (Could just be his mouse, idk), so I'd play safe and get the Glorious.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *walker75*
> 
> Before i played with raw input on, 400 dpi, 500 hz and 2.4 ingame. After, i changed ingame from 2.4 to 2.8 to compensate the less sensor travel.


How do you like the size compared to your Deathadder? I'm thinking maybe going with the EC2 in the future when I pick up one of these refreshes but I'm full palm and the DA shape can be a hair too small for me.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Somebody reported issues with the PureTrak (Could just be his mouse, idk), so I'd play safe and get the Glorious.


Sounds good. Thanks!


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> I give up on artisan pads. Too much time and money and it doesn't seem worth it. So which of these two should I get with my EC1-A ; *PureTrak Talent*, or *Glorious XL Heavy Gaming Mouse Mat*?


I would follow Ino's recommendation and say qpad uc2. The only downside is it takes a little bit to get completely flat, because the package it comes in is a little too tight. Great mat and fast too.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Everybody, I posted a picture of my grip on the g502. Based on that, should I get the EC1-A or EC2-A for that type of grip?


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Everybody, I posted a picture of my grip on the g502. Based on that, should I get the EC1-A or EC2-A for that type of grip?


How do you feel about the G502 now? Remember the EC1 is going to be about 4mm shorter and the EC2 12mm. Keep that in mind if you have bigger hands - you'd probably roll with the EC1.

Secondly, I used my EC1 EVO again and the off horizontal swipes are off putting. The shell is held at an angle palm gripping that surprisingly is not there on my Mamba (Deathadder style shell). They should work on the ergonomics a bit.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> How do you feel about the G502 now? Remember the EC1 is going to be about 4mm shorter and the EC2 12mm. Keep that in mind if you have bigger hands - you'd probably roll with the EC1.
> 
> Secondly, I used my EC1 EVO again and the off horizontal swipes are off putting. The shell is held at an angle palm gripping that surprisingly is not there on my Mamba (Deathadder style shell). They should work on the ergonomics a bit.


Bit the bullet on the G502 using math and such. Alligned two side pics of the mice in photoshop with their respective dimensions and saw the ec1-a would be the best for my grip. my grip isn't what I'd call a true claw or palm grip. The bottom of my palm slightly touches the mouse for security while the center and top of my palm are not contacting the mouse, and my fingers have a natural curl so I tap with the fingertips.


----------



## Conditioned

When I use the middle mouse button to scroll, that is pressing it down, sometimes it gets stuck. This only happens in Fx. Anyone can second this?


----------



## detto87

LegoFarmer, that sounds like a claw grip.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> When I use the middle mouse button to scroll, that is pressing it down, sometimes it gets stuck. This only happens in Fx. Anyone can second this?


Strange. I recommend you keep pushing it down and pulling it back up so it wears out whatever is holding it down.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> LegoFarmer, that sounds like a claw grip.


It's like a claw-fingertip hybrid. My fingers will move the mouse away from palm contact for certain flicks and such.


----------



## sonskusa

my ec2-a tracks fine on the glorious pad, qck heavy, razer control, and artisan shiden kai (large one, white surface).


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonskusa*
> 
> my ec2-a tracks fine on the glorious pad, qck heavy, razer control, and artisan shiden kai (large one, white surface).


No scroll wheel probs? I bit the bullet on mine and hoping it doesn't get stuck haha


----------



## p0ps

Can someone please post MouseTester results of zowie ec-a or any zowie 3310 muose on zowie g(p)-tf speed mousepad.


----------



## jFoor

I can when I get home but it will be about 5-6 hours from now. I have the EC2-A and GTF Speed pad.


----------



## remixedMind

just order`t the ec2-a will be here next week


----------



## wes1099

Should I order my EC1-A from Rexflo's amazon page or from super biiz? Super biiz has free shipping, but from what I can tell, there is better customer service from Rexflo's Amazon page if I get one of these mice with scroll wheel issues. Where do you guys think should order from?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Should I order my EC1-A from Rexflo's amazon page or from super biiz? Super biiz has free shipping, but from what I can tell, there is better customer service from Rexflo's Amazon page if I get one of these mice with scroll wheel issues. Where do you guys think should order from?


Think of the $7-8 shipping as insurance, then. If you get a bad mouse, no problem. Know what I mean?


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Think of the $7-8 shipping as insurance, then. If you get a bad mouse, no problem. Know what I mean?


That's what I was thinking, but I figured I would ask the question anyway.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> That's what I was thinking, but I figured I would ask the question anyway.


I did the one with shipping and I should have it between Thursday and Tuesday of next week.


----------



## ramraze

Got an Ec2-A. Everything else was good, besides 1 thing. Tried switching between the lod settings but they were practically identical. If there were some differences then they are negligible at best. Anyone else noticed this? Do people have very distinct steps? If so, then there could be something wrong with my unit.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Got an Ec2-A. Everything else was good, besides 1 thing. Tried switching between the lod settings but they were practically identical. If there were some differences then they are negligible at best. Anyone else noticed this? Do people have very distinct steps? If so, then there could be something wrong with my unit.


Try it on different surfaces. I would also hold the respective buttons down for like 5-10 seconds after plugging it in.


----------



## Bastard Wolf

Anyone else here with an EC2 A and an EC evo CL?

Is it just me or are you not kinda disappointed by the EC2A?

I feel like my "old" ec evo cl performs better and feels better between both.

I Wonder if I'm not used to the 3310 sensor yet or if anyone else was feeling the same haha.

For information, I did not do any specific test and such, just some gut feelings.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bastard Wolf*
> 
> Anyone else here with an EC2 A and an EC evo CL?
> 
> Is it just me or are you not kinda disappointed by the EC2A?
> 
> I feel like my "old" ec evo cl performs better and feels better between both.
> 
> I Wonder if I'm not used to the 3310 sensor yet or if anyone else was feeling the same haha.
> 
> For information, I did not do any specific test and such, just some gut feelings.


I feel that with every new mouse I get. I give them each a solid two weeks+ to determine if I like it more than the previous


----------



## shatterboxd3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bastard Wolf*
> 
> Anyone else here with an EC2 A and an EC evo CL?
> 
> Is it just me or are you not kinda disappointed by the EC2A?
> 
> I feel like my "old" ec evo cl performs better and feels better between both.
> 
> I Wonder if I'm not used to the 3310 sensor yet or if anyone else was feeling the same haha.
> 
> For information, I did not do any specific test and such, just some gut feelings.


Heck no. My new revision EC2 is leaps and bounds better than the old EC1 evo I had, and even the FK1. So much so that I've only come on this forum maybe twice since getting it, I literally have no drive for finding a new mouse anymore. I'm just super bored on a slow day at work.


----------



## jFoor

Yeah I love my new EC2-A. WAY better than the Evo and I loved that two + years ago.


----------



## Bastard Wolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> I feel that with every new mouse I get. I give them each a solid two weeks+ to determine if I like it more than the previous


Yeah i'll give it a bit of time, i truly like the ec evo cl so that might be why i have a hard time leaving it on the side. lol

Also planning to buy another 3310 sensor mouse, so I'm checking out the KPM, Rival and FinalMouse threads.

Thanks for the input!


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bastard Wolf*
> 
> Yeah i'll give it a bit of time, i truly like the ec evo cl so that might be why i have a hard time leaving it on the side. lol
> 
> Also planning to buy another 3310 sensor mouse, so I'm checking out the KPM, Rival and FinalMouse threads.
> 
> Thanks for the input!


You may get a defective finalmouse, but their customer service is wonderful if you do. I read that the sensor performance is wonderful.


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bastard Wolf*
> 
> Anyone else here with an EC2 A and an EC evo CL?
> 
> Is it just me or are you not kinda disappointed by the EC2A?
> 
> I feel like my "old" ec evo cl performs better and feels better between both.
> 
> I Wonder if I'm not used to the 3310 sensor yet or if anyone else was feeling the same haha.
> 
> For information, I did not do any specific test and such, just some gut feelings.


Honestly in terms of sensor feel personally, placebo + paper stats make the 3310 better.
WMO > MiCO > FK2 (however FK2 is my DD)
If you didn't have problems with the dpi steps or neer hit malfunction you have no other reason to upgrade other than coating / new logo. I just really prefer 800 dpi or 1600 dpi that my MiCO had. That's really the only reason why I prefer my FK2 over my EC not including the claw/palm shape.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bastard Wolf*
> 
> I did not do any specific test and such, just some gut feelings.


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bastard Wolf*
> 
> Anyone else here with an EC2 A and an EC evo CL?
> 
> Is it just me or are you not kinda disappointed by the EC2A?
> 
> I feel like my "old" ec evo cl performs better and feels better between both.
> 
> I Wonder if I'm not used to the 3310 sensor yet or if anyone else was feeling the same haha.
> 
> For information, I did not do any specific test and such, just some gut feelings.


Well the 3090 on native is more responsive than the 3310 on any DPI. I feel like as newer sensors come out, the more smoothing/post processing is added (the upside to it is that all DPIs can be used instead of one native).


----------



## Bastard Wolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creizai*
> 
> Honestly in terms of sensor feel personally, placebo + paper stats make the 3310 better.
> WMO > MiCO > FK2 (however FK2 is my DD)
> If you didn't have problems with the dpi steps or neer hit malfunction you have no other reason to upgrade other than coating / new logo. I just really prefer 800 dpi or 1600 dpi that my MiCO had. That's really the only reason why I prefer my FK2 over my EC not including the claw/palm shape.


I play at 450 dpi step and pretty low sens:

1 in csgo
6/11 Windows sens

I felt like upgrading for the pure sake of testing a 3310 sensor in a zowie shape but I'm a bit disappointed as of now.

The jump from Ec2 evo > Ec2 evo CL was more satisfiying than this one for instance.
Mostly due to the coating and scrollwheel.


----------



## munchzilla

testing out an EC2-A right now and W T F the feet are so uneven, it's practically unusable :|
is there any way to fix this? is the shell warped or something?









this is so annoying.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> testing out an EC2-A right now and W T F the feet are so uneven, it's practically unusable :|
> is there any way to fix this? is the shell warped or something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is so annoying.


probably a defective mouse.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> testing out an EC2-A right now and W T F the feet are so uneven, it's practically unusable :|
> is there any way to fix this? is the shell warped or something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is so annoying.


Pics?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> testing out an EC2-A right now and W T F the feet are so uneven, it's practically unusable :|
> is there any way to fix this? is the shell warped or something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is so annoying.


Rub your finger across the top feet and then the bottom feet, if you feel bumps then your mousefeet are warped

These feet are extremely cheap and if they get wet they will warp or if you put them on and make a mistake and try to reposition them/bend them they will warp. Tested this in my spare time.. very cheap feet


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Rub your finger across the top feet and then the bottom feet, if you feel bumps then your mousefeet are warped
> 
> These feet are extremely cheap and if they get wet they will warp or if you put them on and make a mistake and try to reposition them/bend them they will warp. Tested this in my spare time.. very cheap feet


Good thing it comes with an extra set.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> probably a defective mouse.


I suspect so too, since I tried 3 different mouse feet sets (the stock, the replacement, and some old MS 3.0 hyperglides).
damn it. this sucks.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> testing out an EC2-A right now and W T F the feet are so uneven, it's practically unusable :|
> is there any way to fix this? is the shell warped or something?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is so annoying.


My new EC2-A got uneven bottom shell... enough to make me not use it. My EC1-A was perfectly flat however. Never had this problem with a Zowie mouse before.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> My new EC2-A got uneven bottom shell... enough to make me not use it. My EC1-A was perfectly flat however. Never had this problem with a Zowie mouse before.


I would let them know ASAP. My EC1-A will be here tomorrow


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> My new EC2-A got uneven bottom shell... enough to make me not use it. My EC1-A was perfectly flat however. Never had this problem with a Zowie mouse before.


same. I just asked a few other EC2-A owners, reporting the same problem - but only noticeable on hard pads for them.








I don't think I will be keeping this one. **** I am disappointed. the problem seems to be the top shell warping the bottom case from tension? so stupid.

I got a little too upset and decided to open it up, disassembled it, popped off the top case and the wobbleness was gone. then I tried putting the top case on without screws in, and it isn't big enough to even fit the mouse.

what the ****, Zowie?

I love the shape but the scroll wheel height and buttons are so-so.
and now I can't even return it because I got too eager to fix it.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> same. I just asked a few other EC2-A owners, reporting the same problem - but only noticeable on hard pads for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think I will be keeping this one. **** I am disappointed. the problem seems to be the top shell warping the bottom case from tension? so stupid.
> 
> I got a little too upset and decided to open it up, disassembled it, popped off the top case and the wobbleness was gone. then I tried putting the top case on without screws in, and it isn't big enough to even fit the mouse.
> 
> what the ****, Zowie?
> 
> I love the shape but the scroll wheel height and buttons are so-so.
> and now I can't even return it because I got too eager to fix it.


Sounds like a bad batch... RMA not possible? I think the fact that it stopped wobbling when you removed the top just says that either the top or bottom part are not scaled correctly and would have very weird pressure when screwed in causing part of it to warp. That's awful. I'm sorry, man.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Sounds like a bad batch... RMA not possible? I think the fact that it stopped wobbling when you removed the top just says that either the top or bottom part are not scaled correctly and would have very weird pressure when screwed in causing part of it to warp. That's awful. I'm sorry, man.


I doubt it is, I don't really know where to turn to have it RMA'd when I messed up so bad. my patience is zero with these sorts of things.

it really does suck. I can't even sell it now because of this stupid fault.

can other EC2-A owners try this out for me? I talked to 3 other people owning this mouse reporting the same problem... did we all get it from the same batch? it's ridiculous.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bastard Wolf*
> 
> I play at 450 dpi step and pretty low sens:
> 
> 1 in csgo
> 6/11 Windows sens


Make sure you measure your sens. 450 step on 3090 Zowie can easily be ~500 in reality, whereas 400 on the 3310 often is like ~380.


----------



## offshell

I received my EC2-A today after returning my EC1-A and had a much easier time transitioning from the FK1. I'm still not sure long term since the side buttons feel pretty terrible, but moving from the FK1 I didn't feel too much of a handicap and played pretty decently from the first moment unlike my attempt to use the EC1-A. I'll probably hang onto this one and give it a bit more of a chance anyway.


----------



## bond10

What's the button latency and sensor position for the deathadder chroma/2013, the rival, and EC1-A/EC2-A?

Something like this?

Latency (fastest to slowest)
Rival 1000hz
DA
EC1-A

Sensor position (highest to lowest)
Rival
EC1-A
DA


----------



## LegoFarmer

Can't speak for the others, but the latency on the EC1-A was greatly reduced compared to the ~15ms on the FK1. Compared to the G502, it is about ~5-7ms


----------



## AnimalK

Just got home with my EC2-A and I have been getting acquainted with it in csgo for the last hour.

So far I am really impressed.

I am happy to port that the main left and right clicks are much lighter than my FK1.

The surface coating is much more rubber-like and less sandpaperish like my FK1. The FK1 surface coating is my favorite by far especially after getting warn in. Time will tell if the EC2-A coating becomes my favourite but it is really great nonetheless.

I am not sure the shape is for me. I am going to give myself a while to get acclimatized to it before judging it. My favourite ergonomic shape so far has been the SteelSeries Rival. Again time will tell.

The mouse feet barely protrude from the mouse shell just like my FK1 did so I immediately put on my extra pair of mouse feet on top of the ones already in place.

The cable is excellent just like on my FK1.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> Just got home with my EC2-A and I have been getting acquainted with it in csgo for the last hour.
> 
> So far I am really impressed.
> 
> I am happy to port that the main left and right clicks are much lighter than my FK1.
> 
> The surface coating is much more rubber-like and less sandpaperish like my FK1. The FK1 surface coating is my favorite by far especially after getting warn in. Time will tell if the EC2-A coating becomes my favourite but it is really great nonetheless.
> 
> I am not sure the shape is for me. I am going to give myself a while to get acclimatized to it before judging it. My favourite ergonomic shape so far has been the SteelSeries Rival. Again time will tell.
> 
> The mouse feet barely protrude from the mouse shell just like my FK1 did so I immediately put on my extra pair of mouse feet on top of the ones already in place.
> 
> The cable is excellent just like on my FK1.


Glad to hear. I personally don't mind the thinner feet if the surface isn't too soft. I like some heavy duty cloth pads, I find the thinner feet to be problematic with softer ones like the qck+. How are the side buttons?


----------



## ramraze

Got an EC1-A as well. My ec1-a doesn't have the sidebutton issue.

However can confirm that there is a mistake on Zowie's packaging. I changed LOD settings and noticed through enotus and mousemovementrecorder that my polling rate had been also changed to 500 hz. I decided which LOD to use and then wanted to get back to 1000hz. I was shocked to find that it would stay at 500hz. Then I realized that it's flipped. Mouse5 while plugging in gives you 1000 hz.

So everyone should double check their mouse who tried different LOD settings to make sure they have the desired polling rate.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Got an EC1-A as well. My ec1-a doesn't have the sidebutton issue.
> 
> However can confirm that there is a mistake on Zowie's packaging. I changed LOD settings and noticed through enotus and mousemovementrecorder that my polling rate had been also changed to 500 hz. I decided which LOD to use and then wanted to get back to 1000hz. I was shocked to find that it would stay at 500hz. Then I realized that it's flipped. Mouse5 while plugging in gives you 1000 hz.
> 
> So everyone should double check their mouse who tried different LOD settings to make sure they have the desired polling rate.


This was addressed earlier. In their manual, it shows mouse 4 as the top side button and mouse 5 as the bottom side button. I believe when they say Mouse 5, they are referring to what is in their manual even though we know it as mouse 4. I think that's how it as, at least.


----------



## writer21

Just got my EC2-A mouse today.

Compared to FK2, FK1, and Aurora this one fits the best.

Coating is good if not better than Fk2 and FK1.

Sensor is on point compared to FK2 and 1. I'm not an expert on this just to let ya know.

Little more weight than the FK2 and FK1 but nothing to make me worry about.

Now I just switched to a claw/palm grip style last week. Using the Fk2 I usually claw grip while FK1 I Palm/claw grip.

The EC2-A being small but taller fills my hand more and allows for more stability. While with the FK2 you have more control and it's lighter.

I'm breaking this mouse in with quakelive and loving every minute. If I have to choose between the three I simply can't because all three have their pros and cons.

Someone also mentioned about the coating being a little more rubbery than the fk2 and 1. I agree and I have to blow in my hand to get grip on the mouse. It's no where near as bad as the old ec2 evo black.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Just got my EC1-A. Side buttons are meh, they're not great, but I truly do not care lol. They are lighter to press than my G502 side buttons and are more logically placed which is a plus. They have enough tactile feedback for me. It defaulted at 125 polling rate, which scared me, so I tried changing it and it worked just fine. LoD is great, not even going to try to mess with it. Scroll wheel is fine, it is responsive, but harder to use than my G502 (Probably because I've used the G502 since release, so it is different). The clicks are nice. They're louder and a bit harder to depress than the G502 which I prefer. So far I am impressed. It fits my strange palm-claw hybrid well.


----------



## prosunza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Just got my EC1-A. Side buttons are meh, they're not great, but I truly do not care lol. They are lighter to press than my G502 side buttons and are more logically placed which is a plus. They have enough tactile feedback for me. It defaulted at 125 polling rate, which scared me, so I tried changing it and it worked just fine. LoD is great, not even going to try to mess with it. Scroll wheel is fine, it is responsive, but harder to use than my G502 (Probably because I've used the G502 since release, so it is different). The clicks are nice. They're louder and a bit harder to depress than the G502 which I prefer. So far I am impressed. It fits my strange palm-claw hybrid well.


Does ec1a perform better than g502 in any term? I recently used g502 for a while and I get used to with it but sometime its kinda heavy for me. I think I will give a shot for ec2a caz my hand is so small 18cm middle tip to base


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prosunza*
> 
> Does ec1a perform better than g502 in any term? I recently used g502 for a while and I get used to with it but sometime its kinda heavy for me. I think I will give a shot for ec2a caz my hand is so small 18cm middle tip to base


I have not played any actual games, but from some testing and stuff, everything feels fine. As far as "better" than the G502 goes, though... Theoretically, probably not. Speaking realistically, it could be. Remember that the 3366 sensor is better than the 3310. I honestly don't have an issue with the transition, though. Buttons have some pre-travel, but I don't mind it much. Part of me wishes I got the EC2-A, but I can still claw the EC1-A with 18cm hands, I can send you a pic of my grip to give you an idea of what it would look like for you with an EC1-A. At least to me, the LoD is lower on this than the G502 which I just love. The weird thing is that the "Default" settings didn't come as default. I had to set them, but that's perfectly fine because everything works.


----------



## prosunza

Oh thank you so much that is really helpful plz sent me pics

Btw im hybrid palm and calw grip

Anyone use ec2a playing csgo Is there any issue ?


----------



## Bastard Wolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> I have not played any actual games, but from some testing and stuff, everything feels fine. As far as "better" than the G502 goes, though... Theoretically, probably not. Speaking realistically, it could be. Remember that the 3366 sensor is better than the 3310. I honestly don't have an issue with the transition, though. Buttons have some pre-travel, but I don't mind it much. Part of me wishes I got the EC2-A, but I can still claw the EC1-A with 18cm hands, I can send you a pic of my grip to give you an idea of what it would look like for you with an EC1-A. At least to me, the LoD is lower on this than the G502 which I just love. The weird thing is that the "Default" settings didn't come as default. I had to set them, but that's perfectly fine because everything works.


How do you find the weight difference between EC1A and G502?

I narrowed my mice choice between FinalMouse and G502 (leaning more towards G502 due to QC issue on the FM).

I usually like mouse around 100g so do you find the extra weight on the G502 to be an issue?

For information, I use low sens.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bastard Wolf*
> 
> How do you find the weight difference between EC1A and G502?
> 
> I narrowed my mice choice between FinalMouse and G502 (leaning more towards G502 due to QC issue on the FM).
> 
> I usually like mouse around 100g so do you find the extra weight on the G502 to be an issue?
> 
> For information, I use low sens.


The G502 weighs in at 121g without cable and the EC1-A weighs in at 97g (Probably without cable, those specs aren't listed). I notice the weights difference and it is nice.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Just a note, guys. If you're coming from a mouse that has a very definitive scroll notch feel, then getting used to the zowie one (Which is the right amount, not too much or too little) might be hard. For me, scrolling up can be tricky because I'll think I fully actuated the notch, but have to move it literally just a hair for it to register. My particular unit doesn't have a defective wheel, I just have to get used to it. Hope this makes sense.


----------



## pyrexshorts

Can anyone with an EC-A and a FK2 compare the click delays? I'm assuming if they fixed the latency in one they fixed the latency in the other mouse as well.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pyrexshorts*
> 
> Can anyone with an EC-A and a FK2 compare the click delays? I'm assuming if they fixed the latency in one they fixed the latency in the other mouse as well.


Click delay was improved. Tests with fk1 show around 15ms, tests with ec1/2-a are 5-6ms


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pyrexshorts*
> 
> Can anyone with an EC-A and a FK2 compare the click delays? I'm assuming if they fixed the latency in one they fixed the latency in the other mouse as well.


I am also interested to know if the fk2 resembles the fk1 or the new ECX-A models in terms of click latency and feel.


----------



## Forma

It's because i own an FK, so i would like a few more things on the upgrade list before buying another FK variant. I do think the click latency issue is a pretty serious one, and i hope Zowie are working on it behind the scenes. My guess is they are, so that#s why i won't upgrade yet.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> I am also interested to know if the fk2 resembles the fk1 or the new ECX-A models in terms of click latency and feel.


same here.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Forma*
> 
> It's because i own an FK, so i would like a few more things on the upgrade list before buying another FK variant. I do think the click latency issue is a pretty serious one, and i hope Zowie are working on it behind the scenes. My guess is they are, so that#s why i won't upgrade yet.
> same here.


Well I can assure you that the EC2-A I have been using for the last two days has much lighter and more responsive clicks than my beloved FK1. I have no idea what the older non-A EC models felt like.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> Well I can assure you that the EC2-A I have been using for the last two days has much lighter and more responsive clicks than my beloved FK1. I have no idea what the older non-A EC models felt like.


They feel lighter because the position of the switches relative to the area you click. The buttons of the white ECs I used had a lot of pre and over travel. I assume the travel issues are exactly the same on the newer versions.


----------



## c4rm0

after all these years i have finally found my perfect mouse. The EC2-A is just a brilliant mouse


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: AnimalK



Originally Posted by *AnimalK* 

I am also interested to know if the fk2 resembles the fk1 or the new ECX-A models in terms of click latency and feel.



FK1 and FK2 use the same PCB.


----------



## bovi77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karbz*
> 
> 1. price: 59.99 $ instead of 59.99 €?
> 2. when i ordered caseking still had the 2nd february as release date.
> 3. *i dont like caseking at all*


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *offshell*
> 
> I received my EC2-A today after returning my EC1-A and had a much easier time transitioning from the FK1. I'm still not sure long term since the side buttons feel pretty terrible, but moving from the FK1 I didn't feel too much of a handicap and played pretty decently from the first moment unlike my attempt to use the EC1-A. I'll probably hang onto this one and give it a bit more of a chance anyway.


Hey did you get your EC2-A from Amazon? It has been on a 2-4 week shipping status for a long time on Amazon. Thanks!


----------



## pyrexshorts

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Click delay was improved. Tests with fk1 show around 15ms, tests with ec1/2-a are 5-6ms


I meant the FK2, which is newer.


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bovi77*
> 
> Hey did you get your EC2-A from Amazon? It has been on a 2-4 week shipping status for a long time on Amazon. Thanks!


I ordered from amazon but it was sold by Rexflo which still has some listed in stock depending where you are located.


----------



## ramraze

A little off-topic, but if anybody has a Zowie EC1 EVO black, no matter how old and no matter how broken, if the coating is still fine, I'm interested in buying. Please pm = )


----------



## LegoFarmer

Hey, guys! I have found a fix for the pre-travel on buttons 1 and 2. It involves opening up the mouse which may void warranty. All you need is some tape. I'll post a guide if requested.


----------



## Axaion

tape makes them mushy, just glue some hard plastic on them suckers


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> tape makes them mushy, just glue some hard plastic on them suckers


I put the tape on the triggers, not on the switches. I just use one layer of duct tape. It feels noticeably different and better.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Has anybody else experienced their scroll wheel sticking down after using middle click?


----------



## AnimalK

Though I am loving my EC2-A so far I am sad to report that I get unreliable registering of mouse wheel scroll up when I do it very gently.


----------



## Bastard Wolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Has anybody else experienced their scroll wheel sticking down after using middle click?


My unit does that as well.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> Though I am loving my EC2-A so far I am sad to report that I get unreliable registering of mouse wheel scroll up when I do it very gently.


I have the same issue, I'm getting used to it, though. You probably have the same issue where the notch clicks, but you still have to move it literally a hair. Just something to get used to tbh.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bastard Wolf*
> 
> My unit does that as well.


PM Me. I did something in the mouse to fix it.


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> Though I am loving my EC2-A so far I am sad to report that I get unreliable registering of mouse wheel scroll up when I do it very gently.


I had the same issue back with EC1 eVo. Was driving me mad at times.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> I have the same issue, I'm getting used to it, though. You probably have the same issue where the notch clicks, but you still have to move it literally a hair. Just something to get used to tbh.
> 
> PM Me. I did something in the mouse to fix it.


Could you make a post about how to fix that issue? I want to get one of these mice and I would like to know how to fix this issue in case it happens to me.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Could you make a post about how to fix that issue? I want to get one of these mice and I would like to know how to fix this issue in case it happens to me.


He was referring to the sticking scroll wheel, not the wheel register issue. Is that what you are talking about? A guide on how to fix the wheel sticking?


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> He was referring to the sticking scroll wheel, not the wheel register issue. Is that what you are talking about? A guide on how to fix the wheel sticking?


Yes, the sticking issue.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Due to a few people having a scroll wheel sticking problem, including myself, I took it upon myself to try to find out what caused it and how to fix it. What would happen is you would press middle click and the wheel would get stuck there for a little bit or until you touch it again. It was sort of jammed. I will provide step-by-step on how to fix it if you choose to do so. NOTE: I am NOT responsible for ANY damage done to your unit in this process. Opening the mouse is your decision and *you will want an extra set of mouse skates/feet*, so I assume nobody has used the spare ones that Zowie provided in the package.
You will need to remove the bottom mouse skate to get to three of the screws and then screw through the labeling to find the other two at the top. Poke around with the screwdriver to find the holes.

What you need to do now is take some tape, preferably thinner tape (I used duct tape and scotch gift wrap tape, will explain). Looking at the adhesive side of the duct tape strip, apply a small piece of tape (something thin like electric or thinner) horizontally so the adhesive is not directly touching the switch, but the body of the switch. Here is a pic to explain what I mean.

Carefully remove the scroll wheel. The wheel is not directly wired to anything, so removal is simple. Notice the right peg of the wheel that contacts the switch toward the right of the wheel. That is the switch for middle click and where you are putting the tape. Carefully apply the tape to the switch making sure the non-adhesive side is contacting the switch, while the adhesive side is securing the tape onto the body of the switch.
It should now look something like this... BONUS: Want to lessen pre-travel on M1 and M2? Tape these flaps on the top part before re-securing the top with the screws. It looks like the picture below.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Due to a few people having a scroll wheel sticking problem, including myself, I took it upon myself to try to find out what caused it and how to fix it. What would happen is you would press middle click and the wheel would get stuck there for a little bit or until you touch it again. It was sort of jammed. I will provide step-by-step on how to fix it if you choose to do so. NOTE: I am NOT responsible for ANY damage done to your unit in this process. Opening the mouse is your decision and *you will want an extra set of mouse skates/feet*, so I assume nobody has used the spare ones that Zowie provided in the package.
> You will need to remove the bottom mouse skate to get to three of the screws and then screw through the labeling to find the other two at the top. Poke around with the screwdriver to find the holes.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Image:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What you need to do now is take a piece of electric tape or duct tape (I used duct tape and electric tape, will explain). Looking at the adhesive side of the duct tape strip, apply a small piece of tape (electric or duct) horizontally so the adhesive is not directly touching the switch, but the body of the switch. Here is a pic to explain what I mean.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Image:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It should now look something like this... BONUS: Want to lessen pre-travel on M1 and M2? Tape these flaps on the top part before re-securing the top with the screws. It looks like the picture below.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Images:


Great guide! Complete with pictures and everything. Thanks!


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> Great guide! Complete with pictures and everything. Thanks!


You're welcome, I also updated it.


----------



## Bastard Wolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Due to a few people having a scroll wheel sticking problem, including myself, I took it upon myself to try to find out what caused it and how to fix it. What would happen is you would press middle click and the wheel would get stuck there for a little bit or until you touch it again. It was sort of jammed. I will provide step-by-step on how to fix it if you choose to do so. NOTE: I am NOT responsible for ANY damage done to your unit in this process. Opening the mouse is your decision and *you will want an extra set of mouse skates/feet*, so I assume nobody has used the spare ones that Zowie provided in the package.
> You will need to remove the bottom mouse skate to get to three of the screws and then screw through the labeling to find the other two at the top. Poke around with the screwdriver to find the holes.
> 
> What you need to do now is take a piece of electric tape or duct tape (I used duct tape and electric tape, will explain). Looking at the adhesive side of the duct tape strip, apply a small piece of tape (electric or duct) horizontally so the adhesive is not directly touching the switch, but the body of the switch. Here is a pic to explain what I mean.
> 
> Carefully remove the scroll wheel. The wheel is not directly wired to anything, so removal is simple. Notice the right peg of the wheel that contacts the switch toward the right of the wheel. That is the switch for middle click and where you are putting the tape. Carefully apply the tape to the switch making sure the non-adhesive side is contacting the switch, while the adhesive side is securing the tape onto the body of the switch.
> It should now look something like this... BONUS: Want to lessen pre-travel on M1 and M2? Tape these flaps on the top part before re-securing the top with the screws. It looks like the picture below.


Nice guide! i will give it a try. Thank you very much


----------



## Aventadoor

This is graph from my EC2-A.
It doesnt look like it performes as good as my X5.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> This is graph from my EC2-A.
> It doesnt look like it performes as good as my X5.


I just tested mine and had completely different graphs that were impressive. Just wondering, are you using a colored pad or pure black?


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> I put the tape on the triggers, not on the switches. I just use one layer of duct tape. It feels noticeably different and better.


ive done that for years on my ime 3.0, it does make them feel a bit more mushy, due to the tape no matter what side you stick it on

Also had the awesome experience of the tape gliding off after some time, which is why i switched to glueing a thin piece of hard plastic on the arm/ledges that we put tape on there


----------



## FilsStyle

Just got ec2-a and tested it in csgo. Amazing mouse but after lift off sensor freezing for 1 sec. Who know how to fix it or i need to send it back?


----------



## detto87

The sensor just stops tracking very soon after the lift off. You'd be the first with your described problem so I assume you're just not used yet to such a low LOD.


----------



## atarii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Video is private, you should set it as "not listed" if you don't want it in your feed.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Somebody reported issues with the PureTrak (Could just be his mouse, idk), so I'd play safe and get the Glorious.


Let's update this.

Zowie told me to send my ec2-a to portugal (shipping cost=30€).
So, since i had to change my keyboard, i decided to order a second ec2-a. The second does exactly the same on my puretrak. But it works flawlessly on my qck heavy/qpad uc 50.

JFYK I had a squeaky wheel on my evo and an unresponsive one on my fk1. So i can recognize both problems. On both my ec2-a my wheel is perfect and i dont have any of the problems described from the others. And my mice don't have uneven feet.

I have done some test on my black pads, pics below (are they ok? i have trouble to understand the mousetester results







)
So, apart from the problems with the puretrak, my ec2-a seems to be perfect. I'll be in contact with the zowie support, hoping to know if this is a normal behaviour of the mouse on some pads (like the talent) or there is something wrong with the first batch. In this case i'll be glad to send both mice to portugal.


----------



## FilsStyle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> The sensor just stops tracking very soon after the lift off. You'd be the first with your described problem so I assume you're just not used yet to such a low LOD.


So u need to play with out lift off? Its stupid.. i can get low lift off but if it goes off and takes 1 sec to start again its really bad.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Let's update this.
> 
> Zowie told me to send my ec2-a to portugal (shipping cost=30€).
> So, since i had to change my keyboard, i decided to order a second ec2-a. The second does exactly the same on my puretrak. But it works flawlessly on my qck heavy/qpad uc 50.
> 
> JFYK I had a squeaky wheel on my evo and an unresponsive one on my fk1. So i can recognize both problems. On both my ec2-a my wheel is perfect and i dont have any of the problems described from the others. And my mice don't have uneven feet.
> 
> I have done some test on my black pads, pics below (are they ok? i have trouble to understand the mousetester results
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> So, apart from the problems with the puretrak, my ec2-a seems to be perfect. I'll be in contact with the zowie support, hoping to know if this is a normal behaviour of the mouse on some pads (like the talent) or there is something wrong with the first batch. In this case i'll be glad to send both mice to portugal.


Those MouseTester screens look just fine.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FilsStyle*
> 
> So u need to play with out lift off? Its stupid.. i can get low lift off but if it goes off and takes 1 sec to start again its really bad.


That should not happen. What pad are you using?


----------



## FilsStyle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> That should not happen. What pad are you using?


razer goliathus speed
Tested it on roccat sense military ed. pad and razer goliathus control its same effect. Tried on white paper, it stop tracking when my older mouse with avago 3310(roccat kone pure mil ed) has no problem with white.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FilsStyle*
> 
> razer goliathus speed
> Tested it on roccat sense military ed. pad and razer goliathus control its same effect. Tried on white paper, it stop tracking when my older mouse with avago 3310(roccat kone pure mil ed) has no problem with white.


Did you change the lod to the standard setting as specified on their site? Didn't notice if you mentioned anything or not.

What's funny is that my ec1-a has a higher lod than my ec2-a, while both are on the same setting. This goes to show variance.


----------



## FilsStyle

Yeah. Tried all settings.Its all same. Feels like sensor has sleeping mode and need 1 sec to go back online







but n/m i sent it back already.


----------



## MasterOfMC

I also got my EC1-A but these side buttons... It's normal that those are loose and also this rear one make some extra noise when I use that. Normal click sound but also sound like that button would stick to the shell?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterOfMC*
> 
> I also got my EC1-A but these side buttons... It's normal that those are loose and also this rear one make some extra noise when I use that. Normal click sound but also sound like that button would stick to the shell?


Don't know about that stick sound, but the side buttons are pretty horrible indeed.


----------



## wes1099

EC1-A is now available with amazon prime free day shipping, but it is not in stock until March 8th.


----------



## Xicu

The issue with the wheel problem is in every mouse?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Don't know about that stick sound, but the side buttons are pretty horrible indeed.


Hi Ino, coming from a Roccat savu will the Zowie EC2-A fit me well form palm grip?

I know you had a Roccat Savu and you got to test this new mouse from Zowie.

I also wanted to know why are you keeping your FK1 instead of using the EC2-A.

Thanks.

Edit: another question, since this mouse has a 3310 sensor as equal to KPM and finalmouse, does this mouse has the automatic calibration? ( changing dpi randomly)


----------



## prosunza

I just got EC2A today and coupled with artisan hayate . I notice that LOD is very high compare to G502. It's almost 1cm from the surface . I think there might be something wrong.


----------



## Azmath

You have to look on their site to see how to change LOD settings. I had the same problem with my fk1 when i swtiched from QcK Heavy to Hayate. There should be a setting for hardpads, you should set that lod setting. I got my EC2-A yesterday, feels way better for me than the fk1, n need to switch sensitivity, using the same settings as i used on the fk1. Prosunza, the 3310 senzor reads the hayate as a hard pad, from what i could tell after using the fk1 on the hayate (maybe because of the midle layer that the hayate has).


----------



## prosunza

How do you change the LOD? i have been searching for a while but i cant find any helpful method. please help me it drives me crazy


----------



## Azmath

http://zowiegear.com/index.php?i=product&p=21 and go to FAQ section on the right side menu of the page.


----------



## Azmath

Deleted


----------



## soulside86

can anyone who's got one of these mice comment on whether or not you're seeing behaviour similar to this

http://www.overclock.net/t/1531877/finalmouse-2015/790#post_23628747


----------



## SoFGR

how's the malfunction + perfect control on the infensus OP with the zowie 3310 mice ?

ec evo + hien was pathetic


----------



## prosunza

just tried nothing different







btw from the user guide paper it said that mouse 4 :1000 hz and mouse 5 : 500 hz actually i tested mouse 5 is 1000hz

then i don't know what exactly which button is mouse 4


----------



## Azmath

Well, do the same thing with LOD configuration, maybe mouse5 will help you change LOD. Don't know how you can't do this, i did it with fk1, i will try it with ec2-a when i get home from work. Mouse 4 should be the 'back' button. Look in the little guide book that came with the mouse, there should be explained wich button is mouse4.


----------



## prosunza

How many time you lower the lod by pressing M4+M 1?


----------



## Azmath

EC series has 3 LOD settings: default, and one lower and one higher. Default should be 1,5-1,7 mm. As i said, artisan hayate, from my experience with the fk1 is read as a hard pad by the 3310 sensor, moved without changing the lod from cloth to hard pad setting the mouse still tracked at 2-3 mm above the pad. You should try to change on the lower LOD setting. You need to keep the buttons pressed till after you stcik the mouse in the usb port. After you stick it, just realase them.


----------



## remixedMind

just got the ec2-a and i like it







using it on razer sphex mouse pad i only lowered the lod and it almost feels perfect at 1600 dpi i prefer 1400. the buttons are good only the side ones have little play and are easy to press but my finger is below them so no accidental`s yet and the scroll wheel is little louder , wish it had an option to turn the led off. also im a fingertip grip person








edit: after some gaming i noticed that the mouse hits my left side palm and i dont like that... i was using razer lachesis and it was perfect size will the FK2 be the mouse for me?
edit2: after couple of hours gaming the feet already started to worn-out


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xicu*
> 
> The issue with the wheel problem is in every mouse?
> Hi Ino, coming from a Roccat savu will the Zowie EC2-A fit me well form palm grip?
> 
> I know you had a Roccat Savu and you got to test this new mouse from Zowie.
> 
> I also wanted to know why are you keeping your FK1 instead of using the EC2-A.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Edit: another question, since this mouse has a 3310 sensor as equal to KPM and finalmouse, does this mouse has the automatic calibration? ( changing dpi randomly)


Well, the Savu always hurt my pinky, I believe that was because the design forced my pinky to be completely straight somehow. The EC2-A doesn't have the sharp edges and is very comfortable to hold. The reason I'm still using the FK1 is because that shape somehow works best for me. It's not more comfortable than the EC2-A, but I hit my shots better with it.

So: EC2-A shape very good, but FK1 shape even better for me.


----------



## MasterOfMC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Don't know about that stick sound, but the side buttons are pretty horrible indeed.


Yup, these side buttons are very horrible but I send message directly to Zowie, let see what Zowie answer for this stick sound. if the side buttons would have been better , I would have keep this mouse. Now I need to go back to my FK1.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Don't know about that stick sound, but the side buttons are pretty horrible indeed.


Probably easily fixed by raising the switches, but its Zowie we are talking about. :>


----------



## MAXLD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Has anybody else experienced their scroll wheel sticking down after using middle click?


Dammit, bought my EC1-A this week, some 2 days ago, and now it's behaving like that. Not only that, the scroll also started to squeal like a pig.







I think it's already time for RMA for this sample...

Had two previous EC1 eVo's before, one was sent to RMA due a collapsed button, the other I still have it but some months ago it started to somehow bleed oil / lubricant from the scroll side and front.

Too bad, because ergonomy always been great with the Zowie EC series, the main 2 buttons/clicks are fantastic with no gaps (side ones could be better) and the LOD is just perfect...


----------



## LegoFarmer

Well, I'm a bit screwed. Obviously opening the mouse more than likely voids warranty. My scroll wheel has skipping problems only with up-scrolls. It sometimes is fine, but sometimes it will register just a hair of a scroll after the notch is actuated meaning that when you hear the notch that should register the scroll, nothing will happen until I move it up a hair more. Anybody know a fix? Thanks guys.


----------



## bond10

Can anyone summarize the pros and cons of the FK1, EC2-A, and the Rival? I want to buy a 3310 mouse but am not sure which one as all the mice have problems. I suppose I'll pick the one that I can live with.


----------



## Aventadoor

FK1
Pros:
Pretty good shape, but need more width
Good grip for us who have sweaty hands, decent for dry
Decent weight
Cons:
Very stiff clicks

EC2-A
Pros:
Good shape if you like smaller mice.
Good grip for sweaty hands
Decent weight
Much better clicks then FK1
Cons:
It doesnt have positive camber sides so bad for dry hands

Rival
Pros:
Good shape, especially if you like big mice.
Very good click latency
Pretty good for dry hands
Its sensor perfomance might edge out Zowies 3310 which isent the best tbh
Excellent glide, probably the mice glide of any mice ive tried
Cons:
Weight, althought its not much difference
Hard to spam duo to very tactile clicks

Some might not like the Rivals rubber grips cause they have girly hands and can feel every dot on it.


----------



## popups

*@Aventadoor*

I wouldn't say the FK1 has "very stiff" buttons, it could be worse. I think saying "very stiff" is an overstatement. Most people are used the the soft/mushy Chinese Omrons, anything with higher actuation force is "very stiff" to those people.

Sometimes taking apart the mouse and resembling it in a particular way can change the characteristics of such designs. For instance, I resembled my AMs and FK to have less pre-travel.


----------



## Aventadoor

I might exaggerate a tiny bit. People can get used to it ofc.
Obviously ive only tested 1 FK1, and to me the combination of certain things make me have to re-learn things im used too.
I only play CSGO, and with my old mans reaction time, it was a huge con for me. So for me it was very noticeable.
I need as fast click response as possible, and I will not bother to re-learn something which, if u ask me, shouldent be in a mice market for competitive fps.


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> FK1
> Pros:
> Pretty good shape, but need more width
> Good grip for us who have sweaty hands, decent for dry
> Decent weight
> Cons:
> Very stiff clicks
> 
> EC2-A
> Pros:
> Good shape if you like smaller mice.
> Good grip for sweaty hands
> Decent weight
> Much better clicks then FK1
> Cons:
> It doesnt have positive camber sides so bad for dry hands
> 
> Rival
> Pros:
> Good shape, especially if you like big mice.
> Very good click latency
> Pretty good for dry hands
> Its sensor perfomance might edge out Zowies 3310 which isent the best tbh
> Excellent glide, probably the mice glide of any mice ive tried
> Cons:
> Weight, althought its not much difference
> Hard to spam duo to very tactile clicks
> 
> Some might not like the Rivals rubber grips cause they have girly hands and can feel every dot on it.


Perfect, thanks. Shocked at Steelseries having better performance than Zowie !


----------



## Aventadoor

Zowie seem to be kinda... well it doesnt seem like they give much effort into their products.
Like the mouse feet etc
Belive the hype


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Zowie seem to be kinda... well it doesnt seem like they give much effort into their products.
> Like the mouse feet etc
> Belive the hype


True. I ended up returning three of their mice in the past because it just didn't feel like it was worth $60.


----------



## talumees

is ec1-a decent mouse to buy if i previously used IME 3.0 and want similar mouse ?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Perfect, thanks. Shocked at Steelseries having better performance than Zowie !


I've used both and get better performance from the zowie. The scroll wheel though... Hit or miss. Play it safe and get the rival.


----------



## rivage

Can someone please tell me if the EC1/2-A is going to work on my Goliathus Speed edition? has there been any tracking problems with these mouses on that particular pad? or should I be aware of anything in that regard? I have a deathadder 2k13 but I'm willing to change and test one of these new models. Thank you!


----------



## pgabor

My FK1 worked perfectly on my Goliathus speed, so the new EC series should work perfectly as well


----------



## LegoFarmer

Ladies and Gentlemen, It appears that I have fixed my scroll wheel skipping problem







Seeing as how I already made a guide on fixing the other issues, I am probably making a full guide called "How to make your EC mouse awesome" Just remember that all my procedures void warranty as it involves opening it up, but do you really want to deal with Zowie RMA anyway? YOLO. That's why I took it upon myself to fix it.


----------



## popups

*@LegoFarmer*

http://www.overclock.net/t/1247307/haiiyaas-zowie-ec2-evo-review/260#post_19264283
http://www.overclock.net/t/1247307/haiiyaas-zowie-ec2-evo-review/260#post_19360496


----------



## bond10

The coating on this is different from the FK1? How is it for dry hands?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> *@LegoFarmer*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1247307/haiiyaas-zowie-ec2-evo-review/260#post_19264283
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1247307/haiiyaas-zowie-ec2-evo-review/260#post_19360496


I did something a bit different







Thanks for the post, man.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> The coating on this is different from the FK1? How is it for dry hands?


If your hands are normally dry, the coating will not suit you well. It is slippery until you start to perspire a little bit.


----------



## czerro

It's a really good mouse. I was kinda skeptical and had back-burnered this to my 3090's. I was wrong. EC2-a is a really solid and awesome mouse. The sensor is incredible. The surface is kinda in between Zowie gloss and Zowie rubber. It's pretty amazing to be honest. I've owned many styles of EC-1's, but the EC-2a might be the way to go.

I thought the alcor couldn't be beat...


----------



## Hllava

Hi guys,
Iam extremly happy when I find this forum and take you advice if you answer to me! I thank you for any answer!
I have old around 5-6 ears old intellimouse 3.0 and I'am gamer I play CSGO. I play on ESEA, but i can't use 500Hz because I can't play in windows test mode (not login to the client). I try CM Mizar but they laser sensor is not bad, but I must still cleaned sensor due to dust (so i sold it)

I want Zowie gear EC2-A because I have small hand 16cm. And I want play with 400 DPI, 500Hz and don't want problems with drivers.
So I have questions.

Questions:
1) How much similar is EC2-A with IE 3.0?
2) How much similar is EC2-A with Ikari optical (my freind ask me and I ask you guys)?
3) How much is failure EC2-A?
4) EC2-A have still problem with sensor? I have SS QCK+ (black mousepad) so i don't want issues with it like lag, jumping or shake my crosshair in FPS games.
5) EC2-A have problem with wheel? I read sometimes whistle like pig or rub the enge.
6) EC2-A have same problem with Razer DA with double click? (For example, my freind say about Razer DA : "Really great mouse but buttons is not good. After 6 or 14 months instead of one click, clik twice or double click")
7) What was bad on this mouse? I think like SS Rival is really band when grip under thumb around 2 months go out or on IE 3.0 broke wheel and they spin round itself.
8) Somebody must cleans sensor around once or twice to day?

I really want it, but now I'am poor student and I don't want buy bad mouse or mouse broke down.
Thank you so much guys, I like you. This forum is help me too much.


----------



## prosunza

I have been using EC2A for a week and I really satified with that. its sensor has no issuse with QCK pad. Build quality is awesome also rubber coating who has sweaty hands gonna love that. I have 0 issue on CSGO either MM or ESEA. I'm not sure that this mouse will last long but I hope so.


----------



## remixedMind

just got the qck mini and its a nice pad, the shpex is too hard on the feet, they were wearing of very fast after couple of days using it


----------



## MasterOfMC

Is anyone tested EC1-A and EC2-A sidebuttons? Is there any difference between these mouses? Because I have only tested EC1-A sidebuttons and didn't like them. Sidebuttons were a little too high for my thumb and "soft".


----------



## czerro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterOfMC*
> 
> Is anyone tested EC1-A and EC2-A sidebuttons? Is there any difference between these mouses? Because I have only tested EC1-A sidebuttons and didn't like them. Sidebuttons were a little too high for my thumb and "soft".


To be honest, i forget they are there. I don't use them. So I would surmise that you would find them very low profile and indistinct and out of reach. The mice are identical excepting a shrink in form. If you disliked the EC1a, there is no reason you should dive into an EC2a.


----------



## shatterboxd3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterOfMC*
> 
> Is anyone tested EC1-A and EC2-A sidebuttons? Is there any difference between these mouses? Because I have only tested EC1-A sidebuttons and didn't like them. Sidebuttons were a little too high for my thumb and "soft".


They're just as mushy on the EC2 i'd assume. I have to move my thumb forward and up for the front one and back and up for the back one with my grip

While I'm posting, anyone in North America with an EC1-A wishing they got the smaller EC2-A? I'm wishing that I got the bigger EC1-A now and we could do a trade. I got mine from a reseller on Amazon so I can't just send it back, unfortunately. Send me a PM, since it's off topic.


----------



## MasterOfMC

Yup, I thinked that too. Maybe I test now CM Alcor and after if that is not fine I will try ROG Gladius.

I read that CM fixed 400dpi.


----------



## pyrexshorts

I know I asked this before, but it wasn't really answered. Can anyone test the button delay between the EC-A and a FK2? I know the FK1 has the delay, but I want to know about the FK2. Thanks.


----------



## p0ps

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pyrexshorts*
> 
> I know I asked this before, but it wasn't really answered. Can anyone test the button delay between the EC-A and a FK2? I know the FK1 has the delay, but I want to know about the FK2. Thanks.


I would also like to know that


----------



## LegoFarmer

I am like 90% sure the FK1 and FK2 use the same PCB. Latency probably hasn't changed between them.


----------



## mksteez

Whats the LOD? and any tracking issues with a Talent?


----------



## AnimalK

The EC2-A is my current favourite mouse. I really love this thing.

Unfortunately, the frequency of unregistered scroll ups with my unit has increased to unacceptable levels. I've started the RMA process.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> The EC2-A is my current favourite mouse. I really love this thing.
> 
> Unfortunately, the frequency of unregistered scroll ups with my unit has increased to unacceptable levels. I've started the RMA process.


Had the same issue. Didn't bother RMA because they are known for bad customer service. Probably just getting the IE 3.0


----------



## AnimalK

Zowie answered my RMA request within 24 hours and it was actually written by a human being. I like that.

I discovered I was still inside the 30-day exchange window for Computers Canada so I drove over to the store and they replaced my unit no problem.

I just plugged in my second unit and the difference in the scroll wheel is night and day. The scrolling is much more defined and the clicks are much louder.

So far I can't reproduce the unregistered scroll ups or scroll downs.

I really love this mouse.


----------



## LegoFarmer

I loved my EC1-A, but I tried to take it upon myself with the scroll wheel and just made it worse. It is barely usable. Can't RMA because I voided warranty. Lol.


----------



## MAXLD

Also sent mine back to the store today. Hope the second one won't have the sticky scroll issue.

But regarding Zowie support, I've contacted them directly 2yrs ago about my old EC1 eVo (stuck left button) and got a response and replacement, no issues there.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MAXLD*
> 
> Also sent mine back to the store today. Hope the second one won't have the sticky scroll issue.
> 
> But regarding Zowie support, I've contacted them directly 2yrs ago about my old EC1 eVo (stuck left button) and got a response and replacement, no issues there.


I wonder if they'd send me a new wheel unit. That's all I need because the stick wouldn't stay all the way in the wheel, so I glued it and it didn't do anything beneficial.


----------



## MAXLD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> I wonder if they'd send me a new wheel unit. That's all I need because the stick wouldn't stay all the way in the wheel, so I glued it and it didn't do anything beneficial.


Hard to say in your case, I wouldn't bet on it.







Maybe if you're willing to pay for the piece, but even then, probably not that simple to comply with that kind of specific request.

Never a good idea to temper with stuff under warranty... specially to mess with factory faults that they are obligated to fix or replace the unit. If you hadouken it against the wall, that's another story.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Probably going to get an IE 3.0


----------



## MAXLD

Just got my EC1-A replacement from the store, scroll behaves normally so far on this one. Hope it stays that way.


----------



## zwacki

I own now a fk2 and ec1a I don't feel a difference in terms of sensor. Both mouse feel great. Dunno which I like better haha. BTW puretrack talent works fine.


----------



## Hllava

So guys. After several days usage zowie EC2-A, when I came from IE 3.0, I must say.... I have orgasm every day when I go play. I don't have any issues with this mouse. Sensor, wheel, buttons, grip ale is great but i wait for more time around 1-3 months when I say "This mouse is the best and I never use others mouse!"


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hllava*
> 
> I don't have any issues with this mouse. Sensor, wheel, buttons, grip ale is great but i wait for more time around 1-3 months when I say "This mouse is the best and I never use others mouse!"


THAT sentiment doesn't exist here on OCN because everyone gets bored of their mouse and will always buy another to try out







.

Wish it could be true buying just one mouse and sticking with it for 10 years or until it wears away in your right hand........


----------



## Brightmist

Or it's just that there aren't enough decent mice in the market.


----------



## Hllava

I play 6 years with IE 3.0 until right button die. So if my mouse dont have any problems or something similar i don't want try others mouse







I'am not guy when want still new or something that and I no have problem say "Yea best mouse but I have still problem with this, this and this"








But I say next 1-3 months if I have some problems and my mouse must go to complaint/reclamation







.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> THAT sentiment doesn't exist here on OCN because everyone gets bored of their mouse and will always buy another to try out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Wish it could be true buying just one mouse and sticking with it for 10 years or until it wears away in your right hand........


Pfeh, only reason im gonna get something new over my IME 3.0 are these reasons

1: It keeps breaking, cant hold down a click any more (havent been able to for a year+)
2; Cant oc the USB port on win 8+, so if win10 is actually good... welp.

Yay~..


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> THAT sentiment doesn't exist here on OCN because everyone gets bored of their mouse and will always buy another to try out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Wish it could be true buying just one mouse and sticking with it for 10 years or until it wears away in your right hand........


my deathadder 2013 was like that. I have used it almost every day since I got it in November 2012 and I really don't want to get rid of it but it is so beat up and semi-functional. I have used it so much that nothing is left if the original coating, and the places where my fingers sit have a mirror like finish now.


----------



## Aventadoor

I applaud you guys who manage to stick to 1 mouse for such long time.
Your doing whats best for you and your skill!


----------



## nyshak

I've used the Zowie AM for almost 3 years. Then came the FK2 and now the Aurora. Looks like the latter is here to stay - unless it breaks. Which is kinda likely unfortunately







, seeing how many people have broken ones.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Adding thicker feet will raise the sensor out of the designated height from the surface.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pran*
> 
> Then you just change the LOD?


http://logical-gaming.blogspot.com/2014/11/blog-post_29.html

1.5mm


3mm


4.5mm


6mm


----------



## sonskusa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> http://logical-gaming.blogspot.com/2014/11/blog-post_29.html
> 
> 1.5mm
> 
> 
> 3mm
> 
> 
> 4.5mm
> 
> 
> 6mm


obviously more than 400 pixels in those images, I guess these are post interpolation?


----------



## LifeIsGood4

If I like the ec White mice will I like this ? Is the switches significantly easier to press than the FK ? because I tried one and it was WAYYYYYYYY to stiff for me


----------



## scardd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LifeIsGood4*
> 
> If I like the ec White mice will I like this ? Is the switches significantly easier to press than the FK ? because I tried one and it was WAYYYYYYYY to stiff for me


the switches are way easier to press than the on the fk1. the fk1 switches were way to stiff for me aswell i jsut couldnt use it for longer periods but never had such an issue with my ec.

The coating is not good for dry hands (there is simply no grip) so if you have dry hands stay away. if your hands get a little moist the coating works really good.


----------



## Crizzl

Is the coating bad for dry hands on the EC-A series as well? I think I read that it's fine on the EC-A series but maybe I'm wrong.


----------



## Sencha

It was fine for me. Couldn't even pick up the DABE


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizzl*
> 
> Is the coating bad for dry hands on the EC-A series as well? I think I read that it's fine on the EC-A series but maybe I'm wrong.


It's not good. I was trying my old FK14 I found, that coating was not bad att all. For being a non glossy it was really good.


----------



## Crizzl

It seems like some think that it's fine and others don't. Can anyone compare it to the DA Chroma? The plastic/"coating" on that mouse unfortunately bothers my dry hands quite a lot.


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizzl*
> 
> It seems like some think that it's fine and others don't. Can anyone compare it to the DA Chroma? The plastic/"coating" on that mouse unfortunately bothers my dry hands quite a lot.


The Chroma's hard plastic surface is slippery, while the EC's hard rubber surface is not (it's very grippy). The only way to know you'll like it is to try it.


----------



## skajohyros

I have dry hands and the ec2 is very slippery, even compared to the KPM, which is considered slippery.


----------



## povohat

The ec1-a and ec2-a are finally available in Australia through pc case gear ($99 lol)


----------



## ich1ban

You can get the Zowie EC2A + Zowie G-SR pad for $100 AUD delivered from kustompcs


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> You can get the Zowie EC2A + Zowie G-SR pad for $100 AUD delivered from kustompcs


Thank you for that, just visited their website in the UK and bought a Zowie EC2-A for bugger all and it ships to my address in total for $91.20AUD.

Pity our P.O.S. currency is getting more worthless day by day here in Australia.


----------



## Sencha

Kustompcs are great. Superb after sales service as well


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Kustompcs are great. Superb after sales service as well


Their shipping costings are GREAT only $9.00 shipped from London to my hell-hole here in Perth, WA.

Can't buy anything out of Eastern Australia and have it shipped to my address here without paying at least $15.00







.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Their shipping costings are GREAT only $9.00 shipped from London to my hell-hole here in Perth, WA.
> 
> Can't buy anything out of Eastern Australia and have it shipped to my address here without paying at least $15.00
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Well PCCG has the ec-1 and 2 for $99 x.x


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skajohyros*
> 
> I have dry hands and the ec2 is very slippery, even compared to the KPM, which is considered slippery.


You are talking about the EC2-A right? I must not have dry hands. Out of curiosity, if you lightly grip the mouse and shake it up and down with your wrist does it slip from your fingers? My CL doesn't move at all.


----------



## skajohyros

I have the ec2-a. It slips right out.


----------



## skajohyros

Is there a rubber spray or something. I want the mouse to stick to my hand


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Well PCCG has the ec-1 and 2 for $99 x.x


PLUS shipping pal, put's it over $113.00 delivered. PLUS there is no Zowie Blue P-SR Mouse Pad which is bundled into my British purchase







.

So basically got a good deal from off continent and still have it delivered to my front door for way less despite our crappy currency woes.


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skajohyros*
> 
> Is there a rubber spray or something. I want the mouse to stick to my hand


Hahaha. Try electrical tape.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeflow*
> 
> I understand their might be slight delays on click latency; the facts are it doesn't affect the top players, just gives people something to complain about.
> 
> Here is a small list of pro CS players that use Zowie mice. There is many more..
> 
> f0rest - ec2
> kioshima - ec2
> seized - ec2
> device - ec2
> dupreeh - fk1
> *neo - fk1*
> steel - fk1
> azk - fk1
> skadoodle - fk1
> schneider - fk1


Has anyone noticed Neo playing better after he switched to a EC2-A from an original FK? I know most of you are going to say that is because of the shape, but the FK was designed for Neo's grip style and tested by him during the process.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Has anyone noticed Neo playing better after he switched to a EC2-A from an original FK? I know most of you are going to say that is because of the shape, but the FK was designed for Neo's grip style and tested by him during the process.


Yeah. I doubt he designed the clicks and decided for switches








Get_Right also used FK1 a little bit, but switched back to Xai in the same match.
I think it was at dreamhack winter 2014.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Yeah. I doubt he designed the clicks and decided for switches
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get_Right also used FK1 a little bit, but switched back to Xai in the same match.
> I think it was at dreamhack winter 2014.


IIRC all of them are using SS gear again.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> IIRC all of them are using SS gear again.


That is because they are required to use at least some of their sponsor's gear in order for them to get paid. NiP dropped SS as a sponsor though, now they picked up xtrfy.


----------



## Aventadoor

VP is not sponsored by Steelseries or Zowie, so they can use whatever they want.
NiP doesnt have mouse sponsor, neither are they sponsored by Qpad, they have Xtrfy mousepads & keyboards.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> VP is not sponsored by Steelseries or Zowie, so they can use whatever they want.
> NiP doesnt have mouse sponsor, neither are they sponsored by Qpad, they have Xtrfy mousepads & keyboards.


Oops, I got NiP and dignitas confused somehow. I knew NiP had xtrfy...


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> That is because they are required to use at least some of their sponsor's gear in order for them to get paid. NiP dropped SS as a sponsor though, now they picked up xtrfy.


Oh really? Picking up Xtrfy must be the reason to switch to zowie and back to ss, makes sense, must be xtrfy who forces them to use steelseries mice.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> Oh really? Picking up Xtrfy must be the reason to switch to zowie and back to ss, makes sense, must be xtrfy who forces them to use steelseries mice.


facepalm. During DH 2014 (I might be thinking of a different tournament) NiP still had SS as a sponsor... No need to be such an arsehole about it...


----------



## AnimalK

Are the huano switches in the EC2-A identical to the ones in the FK1?

I remember reading somewhere that the FK1 has "huano violets".


----------



## Melan

FK1 has blue huanos.


----------



## wes1099

All zowie mice since the ec evo have blue huano switches AFAIK. They might even go farther back than that.


----------



## wes1099

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> Are the huano switches in the EC2-A identical to the ones in the FK1?
> 
> I remember reading somewhere that the FK1 has "huano violets".


The huano violets might have been from a source translated from another language. That is what happens with mechanical keyboard stuff on the Asian sites I buy from. Their names for things do not translate to exactly the same thing as they are called in English.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> FK1 has blue huanos.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> All zowie mice since the ec evo have blue huano switches AFAIK. They might even go farther back than that.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> The huano violets might have been from a source translated from another language. That is what happens with mechanical keyboard stuff on the Asian sites I buy from. Their names for things do not translate to exactly the same thing as they are called in English.


OK thanks!


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wes1099*
> 
> All zowie mice since the ec evo have blue huano switches AFAIK. They might even go farther back than that.


they got blue huanos since FK1.


----------



## orndorf77

I just placed a order for the zowie ec1-a , I currently have a zowie ec1-evo that I do not use because the tracking feels off, I used the 1150 dpi step and I could feel input lag . the thing that I like about the zowie ec1 is the shape and the weight of it , it is a very comfortable mouse . I just bought a razer goliathus speed edition mouse pad to replace my 2 year old steelseries qck , so with my new faster slicker razer goliathus I am planning on using my zowie eca -a at 800 dpi . has zowie improved the input lag at lower dpi steps on the zowie ec-a ? and is click latency really better on the zowie ec-a then the zowie ec evo ?


----------



## Maximillion

Input latency should theoretically feel better as all steps are now native. Multiple 'bump tests' have shown slight improvements for button lag.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orndorf77*
> 
> I just placed a order for the zowie ec1-a , I currently have a zowie ec1-evo that I do not use because the tracking feels off, I used the 1150 dpi step and I could feel input lag . the thing that I like about the zowie ec1 is the shape and the weight of it , it is a very comfortable mouse . I just bought a razer goliathus speed edition mouse pad to replace my 2 year old steelseries qck , so with my new faster slicker razer goliathus I am planning on using my zowie eca -a at 800 dpi . has zowie improved the input lag at lower dpi steps on the zowie ec-a ? and is click latency really better on the zowie ec-a then the zowie ec evo ?


To be honest I dont think they have improved the click latency.
EC series have always had better & easier clicks.
FK1 has bad clicks because of its design. FK2 has little easier clicks.

I find it hard to belive that they actually have invested into click latency.
Its Zowie we're talking about after all


----------



## ich1ban

FK2 clicks is the same as FK2013 and FK2014


----------



## Aventadoor

But FK1 is stiffer cause of its longer/bigger shell right?
I'd like if anyone who has experience with both FK1 and FK/FK2 could give some sort of comparison with the clicks.
How much stiffer are they compared to EC etc, cause im kinda tempted to try the FK2 since its lil easier then FK1


----------



## Snakesoul

Hi everyone,

Been a while since I post the last time, but I've been following almost every post and mouse launch 
So I'm also interested to know how those clicks work. I had the 1st fk and those were a little stiffer...
Are blue huanos easier to press? I remember I liked the fk shape, but I'm not sure which one to choose, if fk1 or ec-a...
I'm using a logitech g400 and I'm a palm grip user..
Thanks in advance,


----------



## orndorf77

Does zowie gear have any plans on releasing a CL version of the zowie ec-a ? This is wishful thinking but if they do I hope they change the squishy thumb buttons to some normal feeling thumb buttons and change the right and left click to omron switches, if they do they would probably have the best mouse money could buy


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orndorf77*
> 
> Does zowie gear have any plans on releasing a CL version of the zowie ec-a ?


The EC-A and CL are exactly the same--it'd be an EC-A with a paint job.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtzgr*
> 
> The EC-A and CL are exactly the same--it'd be an EC-A with a paint job.


Eh no. CL is 3090 sensor. EC-A1/2 is 3310 sensor.


----------



## ich1ban

Got my EC2-A yesterday and the G-SR from kustompcs.

Mousepad is absolutely great, but hard to compare to the QcK+/QcK+ Fnatic since all brand new pads feel much better than ones that are worn in with lots of dust accumulated.

FK2014 used to track perfectly on the new QcKs but once they got dirty, quick swipes made it malfunction easily.

EC2-A tracks great, need to get used to the lower DPI - I prefer the glossy surface of the EC2 white though as I thought it gripped better.

Due to my grip style, when i hold down M1 to spray etc. it sometimes pushes in towards the centre too much and removes the contact from the shell button to the switches causing it to stop mid-spray which is quite annoying. Had this same problem with the old EC2, just need to get used to not pushing the buttons at an angle and instead just straight down. I only get this problem with this mouse because the buttons are curved inwards at the very top edge whereas all the other mice buttons are flat or stick out past the base.


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Eh no. CL is 3090 sensor. EC-A1/2 is 3310 sensor.


----------



## orndorf77

what is the default polling rate on the zowie ec-a ? I know on the ec-evo it was 1000hz


----------



## ich1ban

1000hz default for me


----------



## eazely

Can someone help clear some things out for me about the surface of Zowie mice? I'm interested in the EC2-a, but it has to have the right surface, otherwise I probably won't get it.

I've owned the Zowie AM, EC2, EC2 eVo and Zowie FK 2013. I've tried to look into all the surfaces all zowie mice have had but it's so confusing...

I know I'm probably not right in my assumptions, but what I could gather is AM, EC, EC eVo and FK 14 all have a soft touch rubber coating.

And FK 2013, FK 1, FK 2, and EC eVo CL all have matte plastic surface with no rubber. And as I understand the EC-a series also have this matte plastic surface, or am I wrong here?

I really liked the coating on the AM, EC2, EC2 eVo but if it has the surface of the FK 2013 I might not like it. The FK 2013 gets oily and sticky fast.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eazely*
> 
> Can someone help clear some things out for me about the surface of Zowie mice? I'm interested in the EC2-a, but it has to have the right surface, otherwise I probably won't get it.
> 
> I've owned the Zowie AM, EC2, EC2 eVo and Zowie FK 2013. I've tried to look into all the surfaces all zowie mice have had but it's so confusing...
> 
> I know I'm probably not right in my assumptions, but what I could gather is AM, EC, EC eVo and FK 14 all have a soft touch rubber coating.
> 
> And FK 2013, FK 1, FK 2, and EC eVo CL all have matte plastic surface with no rubber. And as I understand the EC-a series also have this matte plastic surface, or am I wrong here?
> 
> I really liked the coating on the AM, EC2, EC2 eVo but if it has the surface of the FK 2013 I might not like it. The FK 2013 gets oily and sticky fast.


EC1/2-A have the same coating as the FK1 pretty much


----------



## eazely

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> EC1/2-A have the same coating as the FK1 pretty much


Thanks, but I haven't tried FK1. Is it the same surface as FK 2013? If yes, then it's a shame. Matte plastic finish makes it difficult to grip when it gets oily. Might get a Deathadder Chroma, at least it has rubber on the sides. I have tried my friends Deathadder 2013 and it feels great.


----------



## AnimalK

My launch FK1 and my launch EC2-A have very different coatings though they are both in the "rubberized" segment.

My FK1 coating is more rough. It feels like there are filaments mixed in with the coating. It gets grippier the more you sweat and mix in your skin oils.

My EC2-A coating is very close to the coating I have on my Mionix Avior 7000. Rubberized but extremely smooth and even. No detectable filaments in coating. I Would describe it as almost like the skin of a peach. It also gets grippier the more you sweat/skin oil on it.


----------



## eazely

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> My launch FK1 and my launch EC2-A have very different coatings though they are both in the "rubberized" segment.
> 
> My FK1 coating is more rough. It feels like there are filaments mixed in with the coating. It gets grippier the more you sweat and mix in your skin oils.
> 
> My EC2-A coating is very close to the coating I have on my Mionix Avior 7000. Rubberized but extremely smooth and even. No detectable filaments in coating. I Would describe it as almost like the skin of a peach. It also gets grippier the more you sweat/skin oil on it.


Thanks, that sounds great. I'm almost convinced now. Overall would you consider EC2-A to have a better surface for wet/oily hands? Can they breathe? I don't like my Zowie Fk 2013 surface. It's not rubberized but just matte plastic and it gets sticky and wet fast for me because my fingers can't breathe.


----------



## offshell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> My launch FK1 and my launch EC2-A have very different coatings though they are both in the "rubberized" segment.
> 
> My FK1 coating is more rough. It feels like there are filaments mixed in with the coating. It gets grippier the more you sweat and mix in your skin oils.
> 
> My EC2-A coating is very close to the coating I have on my Mionix Avior 7000. Rubberized but extremely smooth and even. No detectable filaments in coating. I Would describe it as almost like the skin of a peach. It also gets grippier the more you sweat/skin oil on it.


I have the same and agree there is a slight difference in the coatings. If you have dry hands they are both pretty terrible but I prefer the fk1 coating.


----------



## orndorf77

I just received my zowie ec1-a, I like the coating on my ec1-evo better, the tracking feels a little better on the zowie ec-a, I used to you my ec-evo @ 1150 dpi on a steelseries qck mass, now I am using my ec-a @ 800 dpi on a razer goliathus speed, since the goliathus speed is a slicker faster mouse pad then the steelseries qck 800 dpi on my goliathus speed feels like 1150 on my steelseries qck, so it was pretty easy for me to adjust to the lower dpi setting I am using now .


----------



## orndorf77

I just compared my zowie ec1-a and my zowie ec1-evo side by side and my ec1-evo looks a little taller the my ec1-a. Am I rite is the ec1-evo a little taller then the ec1-a ? Or is it all in my mind ? It is personal preference but for me the grip on the ec1-evo feels better then the ec1-a, with my ec1-evo it is easier to keep my ring finger and pinky on the right side of the mouse, with the ec1-a I feel like I have to keep my ring finger and pinky on top of the right click button so I am now pressing the right click button with two fingers instead of one . This is another reason I feel the ec1-evo is taller then the ec1-a


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eazely*
> 
> Thanks, that sounds great. I'm almost convinced now. Overall would you consider EC2-A to have a better surface for wet/oily hands? Can they breathe? I don't like my Zowie Fk 2013 surface. It's not rubberized but just matte plastic and it gets sticky and wet fast for me because my fingers can't breathe.


My EC2-A gets less sticky than my FK1 but that makes my FK1 slightly more grippy.

The EC2-A definitely "breathes" better and my hands stay cooler.

I like the EC2-A surface more than any other surface I've tried and I have pretty much tried them all.


----------



## eazely

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> My EC2-A gets less sticky than my FK1 but that makes my FK1 slightly more grippy.
> 
> The EC2-A definitely "breathes" better and my hands stay cooler.
> 
> I like the EC2-A surface more than any other surface I've tried and I have pretty much tried them all.


'

Thank you for making me 70$ poorer.







+rep


----------



## orndorf77

my zowie ec1-a @ 800 dpi feels a slower then my mionix avior 7000 @ 800 dpi, I think my zowie ec1-a has smoothing or input lag, curser movement does not feel snappy at all . has any one else experienced the same thing ?


----------



## Aventadoor

Yes, even Steelseries Rival feel better.
I dont think Zowie has good 3310 implementation


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> Oh really? Picking up Xtrfy must be the reason to switch to zowie and back to ss, makes sense, must be xtrfy who forces them to use steelseries mice.


Forest and Get Right switch between two mice. Forest switches between the Kinzu and EC2-A. Get Right switches between the Xai and Rival. When Get Right uses the Rival it appears his head shot percentage goes up, which raises his general score. Forest also appears to improve when using the EC2-A instead of the Kinzu, which is why he went back to it recently.

Allu uses the EC*-A, Friberg uses the Rival and Xizt uses the Ikari Optical (mostly because of the shape).

It's no surprise they don't use the Sensei mice.


----------



## pgabor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orndorf77*
> 
> my zowie ec1-a @ 800 dpi feels a slower then my mionix avior 7000 @ 800 dpi, I think my zowie ec1-a has smoothing or input lag, curser movement does not feel snappy at all . has any one else experienced the same thing ?


I'm pretty sure you feel like that because of the sensor placement


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orndorf77*
> 
> my zowie ec1-a @ 800 dpi feels a slower then my mionix avior 7000 @ 800 dpi, I think my zowie ec1-a has smoothing or input lag, curser movement does not feel snappy at all . has any one else experienced the same thing ?


Does the sensor feel floaty? I just wanna know because the Naos 7K I'm using feels really floaty. I don't wanna buy another mouse where the sensor is difficult to get used to.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pgabor*
> 
> I'm pretty sure you feel like that because of the sensor placement


That can definitely change your perception because you have to move the mouse either further or less for the same results.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> Does the sensor feel floaty? I just wanna know because the Naos 7K I'm using feels really floaty. I don't wanna buy another mouse where the sensor is difficult to get used to.


Have you tried out an Avior 7000 and the firmware posted in OC forums?

A sensor may feel "floaty" if it has a high frame rate.


----------



## AnimalK

I have trouble choosing between my Rival and EC2-A as my main driver. These are my two top mice currently. I am so far leaning towards my EC2-A because of the shape and surface coating.

I feel that the Rival and Avior 7000 move slightly farther than I would like and that my FK1 and EC2-A track just right.


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Have you tried out an Avior 7000 and the firmware posted in OC forums?
> 
> A sensor may feel "floaty" if it has a high frame rate.


Nope. Haven't tried the Avior. Mionix hasn't released a firmware for the Naos similar to the 3.38 for the Avior.

As long as the Ec1-a feels snappier than the Naos, I think I'd still buy it but I wanna hear some more opinions about it.


----------



## Aventadoor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> I have trouble choosing between my Rival and EC2-A as my main driver. These are my two top mice currently. I am so far leaning towards my EC2-A because of the shape and surface coating.
> 
> I feel that the Rival and Avior 7000 move slightly farther than I would like and that my FK1 and EC2-A track just right.


My sprays are insanly good with EC2-A bcuz I can easly move the mouse with my fingers, while Rival is so big thats its a little more difficult, but if I gave it the time it would be no problem. I always end up spraying a tad higher with Rival.
But yeah, Rival and EC2-A seem to be my top mice aswell, of all I got. Still waiting for something big and ambidextrous


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> My sprays are insanly good with EC2-A bcuz I can easly move the mouse with my fingers, while Rival is so big thats its a little more difficult, but if I gave it the time it would be no problem. I always end up spraying a tad higher with Rival.
> But yeah, Rival and EC2-A seem to be my top mice aswell, of all I got. Still waiting for something big and ambidextrous


That new Mionix mouse looks good, but to bad it has some things I don't like about the shape and it looks on to be on the small side. The shape is likely not changing as it appears they are finalizing the mouse at this point.


----------



## PAVES

So here are my impression/review of the EC1-A for the short time that I've had it.

I am currently using FK 2013 and love it except for the fact that it's way too narrow - I don't even know how I've held on to it for so long.

*Packaging*

Very underwelming packaging. I get minimalistic style that Zowie is going for, but you can't even feel the shape of the mice that you're going to spend 80+ CAD on. Compare it to the OG FK packaging I think it's way better, at least there you can see the mouse and try it out little bit.

*Coating*

The coating similar to the FK but it's a bit different. I'm not sure how to describe it but it felt way more dry than I remember my FK feeling ever.

*Shape*

Shape is what you'd expect from the EC series. I bought a Monoprice EC1 on sale and would've used it but unfortunately none of the buttons worked and EC1-A's shape is pretty much the same.

*Buttons*

While the side buttons are a bit mushy - especially when comparing them to the deathadder's side buttons which i thought were very well done - but they do what they're supposed to. All of the click that you'd want to register - register and I didn't have any trouble going back/forward on webpages or using those buttons in any other situation.

The biggest problem for me in this mouse were the left and right click - something that a lot reviews of any version of this mouse fail to mention, and I failed to see until I actually started using the mouse in game. The travel distance between where the button registers the click and where it bottoms out is too big. It's to the point where I was playing any click intensive game (Star2, League, Dota2) the feedback that it gave after clicking very fast was so bad that I actually wanted to take my hand off the mice. Maybe I missed the reviews that talked about it but clicking the mouse just did not feel good at all. And this is compared to previous mice that i used, FK, Xai, and Deathadder.

I thought the scrollweel was a bit loose - compared to the FK - when scrolling up/down but I still liked it a lot. I had no trouble w/ going up/down pages and clicking the scrollweel.

The switches on this mouse are pretty soft - similar to the MP EC1 - and at first I thought that they didn't use huanos at all since they're softer than the FK huanos but they're still huanos. I think that people overexaggerate Huanos a lot. Sure they're harder to click than omron's but after like an hour you'll get used to them no problem

*Sensor*

The sensor was very laggy for me. I used the mouse on QCK+ @ 400 and 800 sens @ 500 Hz and while 400 felt better than 800, they both felt very laggy. I briefly tried 1 600 sens and it felt laggy as well.

*Conclusion*

Overall I felt very disappointed w/ this mouse and returned it 2 days later. Starting from the underwelming packaging and to the mouse itself I just can't recommend anyone to buy this mouse. I think I would've kept the mouse and looked past the packaging and the sensor if the buttons were working properly but they weren't. I don't really understand how Zowie can be pushing this product at this price point with what they're delivering. This mouse should be at least 10-20 CAD cheaper IMO.


----------



## atarii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PAVES*
> 
> So here are my impression/review of the EC1-A for the short time that I've had it.


is this your first 3310 mouse? TBH i have the same laggy/sluggish feeling on every 3310. Someone say this is a "controlled" sensor, for me it's just laggy =). fk1, rival and ec2-a they feel laggish to me compared to every 3090, AM010 and 3988.

my favourite implementation, sensor wise, is the fk1, but, because of the super****ty buttons (huanos + superstiffshell) i prefer the ec2-a.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> is this your first 3310 mouse? TBH i have the same laggy/sluggish feeling on every 3310. Someone say this is a "controlled" sensor, for me it's just laggy =). fk1, rival and ec2-a they feel laggish to me compared to every 3090, AM010 and 3988.
> 
> my favourite implementation, sensor wise, is the fk1, but, because of the super****ty buttons (huanos + superstiffshell) i prefer the ec2-a.


My EC1-A kind of feels like that, too. Still waiting on my MLT 04 mouse.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> my favourite implementation, sensor wise, is the fk1, but, because of the super****ty buttons (huanos + superstiffshell) i prefer the ec2-a.


Same, I hate stiff clicks.
I've been using the Newmen GX1 Pro for a few days, but sensor wise the FK1 is much better. The GX1 pro is usable and it doesnt have any kind of inconsistent acceleration just like the Sensei RAW, but the FK1's tracking is wayyyy better. You can easily notice it.
Still, probably the best 3090 mouse that I've ever used, but the FK1 3310 is just pretty good IMO.

I might buy an EC2-A as soon as I get some money, or just wait for the "Sensei with 3310" from a guy on ESR. (bst v2?)


----------



## orndorf77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> is this your first 3310 mouse? TBH i have the same laggy/sluggish feeling on every 3310. Someone say this is a "controlled" sensor, for me it's just laggy =). fk1, rival and ec2-a they feel laggish to me compared to every 3090, AM010 and 3988.
> 
> my favourite implementation, sensor wise, is the fk1, but, because of the super****ty buttons (huanos + superstiffshell) i prefer the ec2-a.


I have the zowie ec1-a and the mionix avior 7000 sk edition and the mionix avior 7000 does not have any input lag or smoothing with firmware update 3.38


----------



## ich1ban

Anyone have this problem with their EC2-a?

The right side of the shell where you rest your ring/pinky finger, you can press that side down and it will make a clicking noise.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> Anyone have this problem with their EC2-a?
> 
> The right side of the shell where you rest your ring/pinky finger, you can press that side down and it will make a clicking noise.


Had it on the thumb side. Not a dealbreaker but annoying.


----------



## ich1ban

It is extremely annoying, lets see if I can get a replacement unit from kustompcs, it keeps clicking in and out with only a tiny bit of pressure applied.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> Anyone have this problem with their EC2-a?
> 
> The right side of the shell where you rest your ring/pinky finger, you can press that side down and it will make a clicking noise.


I can do that but it is very awkward for me to do it while holding it in my usual grip which explains why I never noticed.
It is not anywhere as bad as an DeathAdder or an Aurora.

The shell barely moves and the click is very low in sound. I'm sure exchanging it will be a wasted exercise as they probably all do this.

Just keep it and enjoy the mouse.


----------



## ich1ban

When I had the EC2 glossy white eVo i don't remember it doing this, too bad I sold it else I wouldn't be able to check it again and/or swap the shell over.

The click for me is quite loud, a lot louder than the actual mouse clicks itself.

And it always makes the clicking sound for me because when I hold the mouse even with a bit of pressure, it does it.


----------



## PAVES

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> is this your first 3310 mouse? TBH i have the same laggy/sluggish feeling on every 3310. Someone say this is a "controlled" sensor, for me it's just laggy =). fk1, rival and ec2-a they feel laggish to me compared to every 3090, AM010 and 3988.
> 
> my favourite implementation, sensor wise, is the fk1, but, because of the super****ty buttons (huanos + superstiffshell) i prefer the ec2-a.


Yes, it was my first 3310 mouse. I ordered a Naos 7000 so we'll see if I get the same feeling with it or not. But like I said, the sensor is the least of EC1-A's problem.


----------



## shredzy

Been using my EC1-A for a week now and I love it....BUT sometimes the mouse likes to spaz out and flicks to the floor (400dpi), it rarely happens but I didn't have this problem with my FK1...same sensor. Anyone else had this problem?


----------



## atarii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shredzy*
> 
> Been using my EC1-A for a week now and I love it....BUT sometimes the mouse likes to spaz out and flicks to the floor (400dpi), it rarely happens but I didn't have this problem with my FK1...same sensor. Anyone else had this problem?


Are you using a black mousepad?
Coz i think the ec*-a has problems with colored mousepads. For example mine reach malfunction speed on the talent. Even neo (using an ec2-a atm) switched to a completely black mousepad.

JFYK, my FK1 didnt have any of this problems.


----------



## shredzy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> Are you using a black mousepad?
> Coz i think the ec*-a has problems with colored mousepads. For example mine reach malfunction speed on the talent. Even neo (using an ec2-a atm) switched to a completely black mousepad.
> 
> JFYK, my FK1 didnt have any of this problems.


Yep, QCK+ same mousepad I used with my FK1 and they have the same sensor....Im not sure what to do because its not easy to replicate the problem....I can play for like hours and it doesn't happen....and then bam in a clutch moment I go to flick and mouse spaz out and flicks to the floor


----------



## SoFGR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shredzy*
> 
> Yep, QCK+ same mousepad I used with my FK1 and they have the same sensor....Im not sure what to do because its not easy to replicate the problem....I can play for like hours and it doesn't happen....and then bam in a clutch moment I go to flick and mouse spaz out and flicks to the floor


try the "original" lod setting and post back !
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoFGR*


[[/quote]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> *REVIEW OF ZOWIE FK1*
> 
> There are methods to adjust LOD on the FK1 similar to how you change the polling rate on it.
> 
> The standard LOD out of the box is adjusted for cloth pads to be around 1.5 - 1.8 mm. However this would mean a higher LOD on a plastic pad (2.2 - 2.4 mm). To enable "plastic mouse pad mode" you have to hold Button 4 and Button 2 (back button on the side and right mouse button) while plugging the FK1 in. This causes the LOD to be around 1.5 - 1.8 mm on a plastic mouse pad (and around 1 mm on a cloth mouse pad)
> 
> To switch back to "cloth mouse pad mode" you have to plug it in while holding Button 4 and Button 1 (back button on the side and left mouse button).
> 
> Now there is also the so called "original mode". This sets the LOD to be on a standard level and therefore should optimize the mouse compatibility for players with special material mousepads. It will have higher LOD than all other settings. So this is useful for those players who prefer a higher LOD (looking at you Dontspamme). You get the "original mode" by holding Button 4, 1 and 2 at the same time while plugging the FK1 in.
> 
> After setting the LOD once you don't have to set it again every time you plug in the mouse, similar to the polling rate. I think it's very nice that Zowie implemented a way to adjust LOD with the FK1 without software. You might not be able to finetune, but I think "low" and "high" LOD should be fine for most players anyway.
> 
> My experience with the modes:
> 
> Cloth mode on Qck+: 1 CD
> Plastic mode on Qck+: did not track at 1 CD hight
> Original mode: 2 CD
> 
> Only with original mode would the FK track on white paper.
> 
> .


----------



## jung1e

Ordered both an EC1-A and EC2-A

Wanted to ask people here if they had similar situations/problems:

1. I had the first gen EC2 and I noticed that both my old EC2 and EC2-A would creek at the top right corner, like a 'dent outwards' and every time i gripped the mouse, the dent would push in and make a sound.

2. I noticed also that the EC2-A buttons feel stiffer than the EC1-A maybe because of the location of the switches relative to finger on mouse

3. Also i had a question about the input lag. I know its fixed but has anyone tested the EC1-A vs EC2-A to see which one has a lower inputlag or would they both be the same?

Thanks


----------



## Aventadoor

My EC1 eVo CL have lil easier clicks then my EC2-A. Its more clicky.

I dont think Zowie has dont any effort to the click latency. Althought it might have improved togheter with the new sensor .
Its just that Zowie FK1 and FK2 are stiffer to click then the EC seriers.
FK1 being the stiffest.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> My EC1 eVo CL have lil easier clicks then my EC2-A. Its more clicky.
> 
> I dont think Zowie has dont any effort to the click latency. Althought it might have improved togheter with the new sensor .
> Its just that Zowie FK1 and FK2 are stiffer to click then the EC seriers.
> FK1 being the stiffest.


Shell design and size. Finger placement will change the force needed. Generally, smaller mice allow you to click further forward, making it much easier.


----------



## shredzy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoFGR*
> 
> try the "original" lod setting and post back !
> [


[/quote]

By original lod setting do you mean the default? If so that's what I'm using


----------



## ich1ban

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jung1e*
> 
> Ordered both an EC1-A and EC2-A
> 
> Wanted to ask people here if they had similar situations/problems:
> 
> 1. I had the first gen EC2 and I noticed that both my old EC2 and EC2-A would creek at the top right corner, like a 'dent outwards' and every time i gripped the mouse, the dent would push in and make a sound.


I'm currently getting this this same problem, when I grip the mouse, it will dent and click inwards every single time and not just the top right corner, it's like the whole of the top right to the middle of the mouse.


----------



## jung1e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ich1ban*
> 
> I'm currently getting this this same problem, when I grip the mouse, it will dent and click inwards every single time and not just the top right corner, it's like the whole of the top right to the middle of the mouse.


yeah i remember my first gen ec2 was like the whole middle right side of the mouse


----------



## ich1ban

Is this fixable on your own?

I was thinking if I could put some tape in between the base of the shell and the side it would fill in the gap.

Not sure if it's worth sending it back to kustomPCs to get this fixed...

Wish I kept my glossy EC2-eVo so I could swap out the shell now.


----------



## SoFGR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shredzy*


By original lod setting do you mean the default? If so that's what I'm using







[/quote]

cloth mode is the default setting

try the high lod setting AKA "original mode"


----------



## shredzy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoFGR*
> 
> By original lod setting do you mean the default? If so that's what I'm using


cloth mode is the default setting

try the high lod setting AKA "original mode"[/quote]

Ah I see. Well today ive been using it for about 4-5 hours and the issue hasnt shown up yet...not sure whats goin on


----------



## Conditioned

I got a replacemnt for my ec2-a now and it doesnt have the scroll button bug.


----------



## falcon26

Can you turn off the LED scroll wheel light on the EC1 or EC2 A? I don't want any kind of LED going on. And coming from a G9 with a claw grip would the EC1 or EC2 A be better for me?


----------



## Maximillion

LED cannot be disabled, unfortunately. And I'd say the EC2-A is probably a better transition.


----------



## falcon26

Aw OK dam. That rules out the Zowie. On to the Steel-series Sensai

EDIT: Got The Steel Series Sensai for $35


----------



## oxidized

not buying such mouse just for the led is pretty silly...


----------



## jung1e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> I got a replacemnt for my ec2-a now and it doesnt have the scroll button bug.


I got that problem on the EC1 but it went away after a bit of just using it (scrolling it but not pressing down on it) and now it clicks fine again


----------



## ich1ban

Mmm kustompcs not replying to my email.

Wonder if it's worth opening up the mouse and filling in the gap so it doesn't make the clicking noise on the side of the mouse where i rest my ring/pinky fingers.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxidized*
> 
> not buying such mouse just for the led is pretty silly...


I agree considering all Zowie mice have led but the fk one is under the mouse.

If you can't look at lights then why do you even turn on your monitor lol.


----------



## falcon26

I find any LED completely distracting while gaming....


----------



## oxidized

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> I find any LED completely distracting while gaming....


you must be playing with the mouse under your face then, otherwise there's no way you could notice that much the light


----------



## falcon26

Look at reviews on youtube. Their are plenty of people that loved the mouse, but found the LED to be totally distracting so I'm not the only one


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Look at reviews on youtube. Their are plenty of people that loved the mouse, but found the LED to be totally distracting so I'm not the only one


It comes with an extra set of feet. If it bothers you that much, open up the mouse and disconnect the LED, put it back together, apply the extra set of feet and you're golden.


----------



## orndorf77

the feet towards the back of my zowie ec1-a that came attached it felt a little ruff and it was kind of scratching against my mouse pad so I changed the feet with the extra pair that comes with the mouse but I did not attach them 100% flush in the grooves that the mouse feet are supposed to go in , I need a extra pair of mouse feet for my zowie ec1-a , preferably ones that are faster then the default ones, can some one tell me which mouse feet I should get ?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orndorf77*
> 
> the feet towards the back of my zowie ec1-a that came attached it felt a little ruff and it was kind of scratching against my mouse pad so I changed the feet with the extra pair that comes with the mouse but I did not attach them 100% flush in the grooves that the mouse feet are supposed to go in , I need a extra pair of mouse feet for my zowie ec1-a , preferably ones that are faster then the default ones, can some one tell me which mouse feet I should get ?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Zowie-EC1-EC-eVo-EC2-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition/111427911417?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D8038f65c9f28474b9cc3c49d1933f785%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D111017250953&rt=nc


----------



## orndorf77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Zowie-EC1-EC-eVo-EC2-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition/111427911417?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3D8038f65c9f28474b9cc3c49d1933f785%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D111017250953&rt=nc


yeah but they ship all the way from japan, how about corepad skates mouse feet, are they any faster then the default feet ? I could get them from Amazon.com with prime shipping


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orndorf77*
> 
> yeah but they ship all the way from japan, how about corepad skates mouse feet, are they any faster then the default feet ? I could get them from Amazon.com with prime shipping


I personally use the tiger gaming ones (.45) but had to double stack. Look for the .65 ones like the ones I linked to you if you are going to buy in the US.


----------



## Melan

Just buy a set of MS-3 hyperglides.

http://www.hyperglide.net/?hg=ms_skates_1 0.8mm thick. Works great on everything.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> Just buy a set of MS-3 hyperglides.
> 
> http://www.hyperglide.net/?hg=ms_skates_1 0.8mm thick. Works great on everything.


Yeah, that is also a good idea. I'll get those for my IE 3.0 that'll arrive soon







those or hotline games. Dunno yet.


----------



## orndorf77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Yeah, that is also a good idea. I'll get those for my IE 3.0 that'll arrive soon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> those or hotline games. Dunno yet.


I found the extra set of mouse feet that came with my zowie ec1-evo, I just put them on perfectly but the mouse feet were bent a little before putting them on and the mouse feet feel like they have dents in them when I rub my finger across them, they feel better then the original pair that came on my ec-a though


----------



## orndorf77

This mite be a stupid question, yesterday I changed the mouse feet that came on my zowie ec1-a because they felt a little ruff and the were scratching against my mouse pad, and the replacement mouse feet I used were bent so after putting them on they feel like there dented when rubbing my finger across them, meaning they are not 100% flat, are the mouse feet I am using now effecting tracking at all because they are not 100% flat ? And would it be worth it to buy a a set of corepad skatez mouse feet for $10.50 from amazon.com ?


----------



## phamtom

from my experience corepad feet are pretty bad simply because the are not smooth on the edges so they drag on cloth


----------



## decompiled

I just got an EC2-A. When I flick to the right the mouse rolls up on the edge. I thought perhaps it was due to the non ergonomic style but I notice I do this with my other mice also. The LOD is so low on this mouse with QCK+ that it just doesn't register when the mouse starts to roll. Some of the mice I do use have high LOD so it's not a problem. Anyway to fix this with the sensor? I know Zowie have adjustable sensors but I am not sure which setting to use for QCK+.


----------



## Melan

Try the one that works lol. There are only 3 modes there, try switching between them and figure out what works best.

On how to switch LOD, look for Ino's FK1 review. There should be instructions on what to press.


----------



## remixedMind

here it is http://zowiegear.com/index.php?i=product&p=21 go to FAQ on the left


----------



## decompiled

It says:

If you are using the following mousepads: ZOWIE TF series、SR series、CM series

If you want to change the lift-off distance, please one of the following methods:

If you feel the lift-off distance is too low:
Please disconnect the mouse and hold down M4 + M1 + M2 and then connect the mouse through USB

If you feel the lift-off distance is too high:
Please disconnect the mouse, hold down M4 + M1 and then connect the mouse through USB

If you want to back to standard setting !
Please disconnect the mouse, hold down M5 + M1 and then connect the mouse through USB

If you are using ZOWIE SWIFT
Please disconnect the mouse, hold down M4 + M2 and then connect the mouse through USB

So my problem is I have no idea what the equivalent is to QCK+ and when I try each setting as described above I can't tell any difference.


----------



## atarii

you want an higher lod so

disconnect the mouse and hold down M4 + M1 + M2 and then connect the mouse through USB

It looks like there is no difference but i did try using some old dvd and it actually does change your lod.


----------



## falcon26

Can you at least set the LED a different color like white or blue?


----------



## Melan

No.


----------



## falcon26

Dam it.


----------



## falcon26

Do all of Zowie's mice have some sort of LED going on at the scroll wheel?


----------



## ich1ban

Zowie FK and AM series don't, nor do the Mico afaik. Instead they have it under the mouse.


----------



## remixedMind

im using the lowest lod on the qck mini and it works perfect


----------



## Apocalypse Maow

Is it just me or do the switches feel too light on this one.... Feels like no resistance at all


----------



## jung1e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Can you at least set the LED a different color like white or blue?


The scrollwheel changes color depending on DPI

Red - 400
Then Purple, Blue, Green in increasing order


----------



## orndorf77

are zowie gear speedy skatez bf mouse feet for the zowie ec mice better then the stock default mouse feet that come with the zowie ec-a ?


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orndorf77*
> 
> are zowie gear speedy skatez bf mouse feet for the zowie ec mice better then the stock default mouse feet that come with the zowie ec-a ?


exactly the same.
don't get fooled by some pics, where they are still shown as thicker white teflon feet.


----------



## shredzy

Been loving my EC1-A but I'm curious to try the size of the EC2-A. I had the FK1, tried the FK2 and I found it to small....just wondering if it would be the same with the EC2-A. My hands aren't very big, 19cm and use claw grip so not to sure...anyone here tried both?


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shredzy*
> 
> Been loving my EC1-A but I'm curious to try the size of the EC2-A. I had the FK1, tried the FK2 and I found it to small....just wondering if it would be the same with the EC2-A. My hands aren't very big, 19cm and use claw grip so not to sure...anyone here tried both?


my hand is 17.5 cm and the EC2 fits me like a glove. I own a DA2013 which is roughly the same size as the EC1 and I find it too big. Not sure you would like the smaller EC2 esp if you didn't like going down one size with the FK2 (albeit the shapes are completely different).

There are no local stores near me that carry zowie mice, however if there is near you or if there is an online shop with a good return policy it wouldn't kill you to get the mouse to try it out and return it if you don't like it.


----------



## shredzy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> my hand is 17.5 cm and the EC2 fits me like a glove. I own a DA2013 which is roughly the same size as the EC1 and I find it too big. Not sure you would like the smaller EC2 esp if you didn't like going down one size with the FK2 (albeit the shapes are completely different).
> 
> There are no local stores near me that carry zowie mice, however if there is near you or if there is an online shop with a good return policy it wouldn't kill you to get the mouse to try it out and return it if you don't like it.


Hmm yea that's what I thought....thinking maybe playing safe and sticking to the EC1-A....still very curious though









EDIT: No local store has it, place I get it from wouldn't take back a open product, I'd have to sell it....aka cop losing $20+ off it


----------



## orndorf77

I just put corepad skatez on my zowie ec1-a, and I feel like a ruined my mouse, for some reason my mouse feels like it is scraping against my mouse pad, will these mouse feet eventually break in ?


----------



## Moosiemayne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orndorf77*
> 
> I just put corepad skatez on my zowie ec1-a, and I feel like a ruined my mouse, for some reason my mouse feels like it is scraping against my mouse pad, will these mouse feet eventually break in ?


That's because the skates aren't rounded like hyperglides or some other skates. They will have to wear in significantly before it feels better. It takes quite a while for it to reach the same smooth feeling as hyperglides.


----------



## KingAlkaiser

is this optical or laser ?


----------



## remixedMind

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KingAlkaiser*
> 
> is this optical or laser ?


its optical


----------



## pinobot

I understand that these Zowie mice don't come with software.
Is it possible to bind a side button to a keyboard key?
If not do the side buttons hold when you hold the button? I mean: if you would bind the button to reload in BF4 can you pickup a weapon by holding the button?


----------



## remixedMind

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> I understand that these Zowie mice don't come with software.
> Is it possible to bind a side button to a keyboard key?
> If not do the side buttons hold when you hold the button? I mean: if you would bind the button to reload in BF4 can you pickup a weapon by holding the button?


did`t quite understand what you mean, but i use Mouse button 4 to switch to defibrillator and button 5 to throw nade`s


----------



## pinobot

Yes, but these are single actions, for some actions you have to hold a button longer.
Like weapon reload -> weapon pickup
Spotting -> orders


----------



## remixedMind

edit: just did a quick test and yes it work`s only for single actions


----------



## SoFGR

are you sure ?

grenades cannot be cooked without keyboard then ?

what about prone (hold) ?


----------



## CeeSA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> I understand that these Zowie mice don't come with software.
> Is it possible to bind a side button to a keyboard key?
> If not do the side buttons hold when you hold the button? I mean: if you would bind the button to reload in BF4 can you pickup a weapon by holding the button?


The solution: X-Mouse Button Control
Very good software for simple and for complicated things.

Reload is possible w/ a keybind. (I did it only in BF3, not BF4)


----------



## orndorf77

I put corepad skatez on my zowie ec1-a , I don't like them because they drag against my mouse pad , how well would my zowie ec1-a glide if I went footless ? has any one ever tried a mouse with out mouse feet ?


----------



## Luhz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orndorf77*
> 
> I put corepad skatez on my zowie ec1-a , I don't like them because they drag against my mouse pad , how well would my zowie ec1-a glide if I went footless ? has any one ever tried a mouse with out mouse feet ?


I used the SS Kana without feet for a while and it was fine, but if drag is your issue you might not like how it feels as it tends to increase friction (obviously).


----------



## orndorf77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luhz*
> 
> I used the SS Kana without feet for a while and it was fine, but if drag is your issue you might not like how it feels as it tends to increase friction (obviously).


It sucks, I ordered corepad skatez for a better faster glide and I got the opposite, I just ordered hotline games 2014 edition hurricane black, I hope these mouse feet work better then the corepad skatez I got now


----------



## fuzzybass

How are the clicks on the EC2-A compared to the FK1 (but not the FK2, as I understand the FK2 has softer clicks than the FK1)?


----------



## Maximillion

Generally speaking, the EC series has softer clicks than the FKs due to the shell.


----------



## orndorf77

I really like how curser movement feels on the zowie ec-a, there is absolutely no smoothing at all, I think curser movement on the zowie ec-a feels more snappy then the Logitech g502 and 402, and I think the curser movement on the zowie ec-a more then makes up for any click delay that it has, I do wish the zowie ec-a had rubber grips on the sides and used Omron switches


----------



## bovi77

Hi,

Has anyone bought EC2-A from Amazon recently? This particular listing sold by Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00S9SH7V0/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Wondering if it's really a 1-3 month wait

thanks!


----------



## LegoFarmer

So after testing between my G502, EC1-A and IE 3.0, I actually don't feel like the zowie is lagging. Who knows how I can test for smoothing accurately?


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bovi77*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Has anyone bought EC2-A from Amazon recently? This particular listing sold by Amazon
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00S9SH7V0/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
> 
> Wondering if it's really a 1-3 month wait
> 
> thanks!


It's never a full 3 month wait.

My KPO had that same message but suddenly one day it said 'in stock'.


----------



## chrispow

I bought the EC1-A and after about 4 days use, the mousewheel is starting to feel sluggish and uneven. I assume this is the usual problem with the plastic friction that is fixed by greasing it. Did anyone else have this issue? I don't want to send it back for something so simple to fix, but it sucks having to replace the mousefeet just to do this. I'm also struggling to find any decently priced replacement mouse feet for when I've used the ones that came in the box.

Any idea if this would void warranty? There was no warranty sticker on my FK when I opened that.

EDIT: Seems its only scroll down that does this. Up feels smooth as all hell and down feels both slower and irregular. Anyone have similar experiences?


----------



## ramraze

If someone wants to sell their old EC2 evo black in Europe then I'd be happy to take offers. Thanx


----------



## csgomouse

Hi guys I ordered ec2-a a couple days ago and it just arrived. I feel very frustrated because I had very high hopes from this mouse. It feels very good on the hand but the one thing that frustrates me is the lift off distance that feels abnormally low. I mean, whenever I move the mouse and the sensor is like just a tiny bit above the mousepad, the crosshair/cursor would freeze and it feels horrible during playing. I never experienced this thing in any mouse before. Is the mouse faulty or should it be like this? I play csgo competitively and it's very frustrating.
I had the deathadder beforehand and I didn't experience such problems.
Is there any way to fix this or should I switch back to my old deathadder? I feel like I just wasted 70$ and returning it to zowie will cost another 30$ because of shipping and handling.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csgomouse*
> 
> Hi guys I ordered ec2-a a couple days ago and it just arrived. I feel very frustrated because I had very high hopes from this mouse. It feels very good on the hand but the one thing that frustrates me is the lift off distance that feels abnormally low. I mean, whenever I move the mouse and the sensor is like just a tiny bit above the mousepad, the crosshair/cursor would freeze and it feels horrible during playing. I never experienced this thing in any mouse before. Is the mouse faulty or should it be like this? I play csgo competitively and it's very frustrating.
> I had the deathadder beforehand and I didn't experience such problems.
> Is there any way to fix this or should I switch back to my old deathadder? I feel like I just wasted 70$ and returning it to zowie will cost another 30$ because of shipping and handling.


You can change LoD and raise it if you want. I don't remember the exact hotkeys for it. It should be in your instructions, or do some searching on how to change FK1 LoD (Same commands).
I THINK If you hold the back side button and hold down left and right click at the same time (So you'll be holding three buttons down) and then plugging it in should raise the LoD.


----------



## csgomouse

I did change the LOD like in their insturctions but there is no difference. it's so frustrating.. I just plugged in the deathadder again and the difference is huge. i can freely move the mouse without having to worry that the cursor will freeze if the angle i glide my mouse is tilting the mouse a little to the side.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csgomouse*
> 
> I did change the LOD like in their insturctions but there is no difference. it's so frustrating.. I just plugged in the deathadder again and the difference is huge. i can freely move the mouse without having to worry that the cursor will freeze if the angle i glide my mouse is tilting the mouse a little to the side.


With the high LOD option I get a bit more than 1 CD LOD which should really be high enough. If you lift your mouse higher during a swipe that would be a very bad habit. Not only on a Zowie mouse, because lifting the mouse decreases CPI so you would swipe with varying CPI, effectively changing your sensitivity mid swipe.


----------



## csgomouse

Well I've used 2 mice before - the microsoft wmo and the razer deathadder and I never experienced any problem such as this. it feels wrong..


----------



## ramraze

+1 to Ino. You will get used to it fast, but yes, it is low.


----------



## Sencha

It will only take a few days to get use to. As Ino. said you're adding in an unnecessary variable with your old way. Put some time in and you'll be fine.


----------



## csgomouse

I think I will return the mouse guys or just give it to my brother or something.. I feel too frustrated because now I have to change muscle memory that I used for all my life.. I never experienced these freezes with any other mouse.. well there goes 70$ for nothing :S

I had very high hopes from this mouse it feels very good on the hand but that sensor just kills me. and unfortunately the manual to change to LOD doesn't make any difference at all.


----------



## AnimalK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csgomouse*
> 
> I think I will return the mouse guys or just give it to my brother or something.. I feel too frustrated because now I have to change muscle memory that I used for all my life.. I never experienced these freezes with any other mouse.. well there goes 70$ for nothing :S
> 
> I had very high hopes from this mouse it feels very good on the hand but that sensor just kills me. and unfortunately the manual to change to LOD doesn't make any difference at all.


Are you aware that there is a printing mistake in the manual and that mouse 4 and mouse 5 buttons are swapped?

If not then this might explain why you feel no difference after attempting to change the LOD.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AnimalK*
> 
> Are you aware that there is a printing mistake in the manual and that mouse 4 and mouse 5 buttons are swapped?
> 
> If not then this might explain why you feel no difference after attempting to change the LOD.


This statement is correct. I still prefer my EC1-A over my G502 in terms of shape and I feel like it has less post-processing. The IE 3.0 still has me sold, though.


----------



## ramraze

Dude stick with it for a few more days, you will get used to it. The muscle memory has nothing to do with lifting.


----------



## chrispow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csgomouse*
> 
> I think I will return the mouse guys or just give it to my brother or something.. I feel too frustrated because now I have to change muscle memory that I used for all my life.. I never experienced these freezes with any other mouse.. well there goes 70$ for nothing :S
> 
> I had very high hopes from this mouse it feels very good on the hand but that sensor just kills me. and unfortunately the manual to change to LOD doesn't make any difference at all.


To be clear, mouse 5 is the thumb button closest to the front and mouse 4 to the back.

Has anyone noticed their scrollwheel being sluggish going down but perfectly smooth going up? I am returning my mouse and want to know if this is a common issue or if I am the exception.


----------



## eysen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csgomouse*
> 
> Hi guys I ordered ec2-a a couple days ago and it just arrived. I feel very frustrated because I had very high hopes from this mouse. It feels very good on the hand but the one thing that frustrates me is the lift off distance that feels abnormally low. I mean, whenever I move the mouse and the sensor is like just a tiny bit above the mousepad, the crosshair/cursor would freeze and it feels horrible during playing. I never experienced this thing in any mouse before. Is the mouse faulty or should it be like this? I play csgo competitively and it's very frustrating.
> I had the deathadder beforehand and I didn't experience such problems.
> Is there any way to fix this or should I switch back to my old deathadder? I feel like I just wasted 70$ and returning it to zowie will cost another 30$ because of shipping and handling.


Same problem for me, defective mouse or problem with the sensor ? I have a Goliathus Speed...


----------



## Brightmist

It's not a problem, it's a feature. Just set LOD to a higher setting.


----------



## iHav0c

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csgomouse*
> 
> Hi guys I ordered ec2-a a couple days ago and it just arrived. I feel very frustrated because I had very high hopes from this mouse. It feels very good on the hand but the one thing that frustrates me is the lift off distance that feels abnormally low. I mean, whenever I move the mouse and the sensor is like just a tiny bit above the mousepad, the crosshair/cursor would freeze and it feels horrible during playing. I never experienced this thing in any mouse before. Is the mouse faulty or should it be like this? I play csgo competitively and it's very frustrating.
> I had the deathadder beforehand and I didn't experience such problems.
> Is there any way to fix this or should I switch back to my old deathadder? I feel like I just wasted 70$ and returning it to zowie will cost another 30$ because of shipping and handling.


I'm having the same problem. EC1-A on a SteelSeries QcK+. Not only does the cursor freeze when I lift it high enough and place it back down, but it sometimes freezes completely for 30 seconds to 1 minute. I tried changing USB ports, messing with different settings in Windows and the BIOS, still no fix. My G302 and G402 work perfectly fine. Is it something I'm doing with it or is it just a faulty unit?


----------



## ramraze

Even on the highest LOD setting?


----------



## iHav0c

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Even on the highest LOD setting?


Yes, on all LOD settings. I thought it might be the cable, but it's only the cursor that freezes. The scroll wheel LED is on, the clicks and side buttons work and so does the DPI changer.


----------



## ramraze

If it even happens on more than 1 different polling rate setting then I guess it's RMAworthy. Unless someone comes up with a better explanation.


----------



## herbal718

I got the EC2-A about a week ago and I love it. I've previously used almost exclusively Logitech mice until I tried the FK1. My only gripe with the EC2-A is that the right mouse button sensitivity is lower than the left button, and I find myself clicking it by accident when I'm gaming. If only the right mouse button required the same amount of pressure to actuate as the left, then I would give this mouse a 10/10. Any tips on what I could do with this? Do you think this warrants a RMA replacement?


----------



## iHav0c

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> If it even happens on more than 1 different polling rate setting then I guess it's RMAworthy. Unless someone comes up with a better explanation.


Do you mind telling me the buttons needed to change the LOD? I may have used incorrect/different button combinations.


----------



## ramraze

http://www.zowiegear.com/index.php?i=product&p=21

Edit: I think the combinations are not wrong, but on the Zowie box they have mixed up Mouse 4 and Mouse 5. Mouse 4 should be back button and Mouse 5 forward.
Try all of these and feel which is highest, also, try if all of them have the same issue.

Edit: remembered something


----------



## csgomouse

I tried changing the LOD with every single button and I can't feel any difference. still the same problem.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *herbal718*
> 
> I got the EC2-A about a week ago and I love it. I've previously used almost exclusively Logitech mice until I tried the FK1. My only gripe with the EC2-A is that the right mouse button sensitivity is lower than the left button, and I find myself clicking it by accident when I'm gaming. If only the right mouse button required the same amount of pressure to actuate as the left, then I would give this mouse a 10/10. Any tips on what I could do with this? Do you think this warrants a RMA replacement?


That is a common "problem" with many mice.
I had that on my FK2013, on one of my WMO's and on 2 out of 3 Rival's.
Middle finger is always heavier than index finger. Add to that a ~5g lighter actuated switch and you get that "problem".

It's most of the time a thing of getting used to it though.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> That is a common "problem" with many mice.
> I had that on my FK2013, on one of my WMO's and on 2 out of 3 Rival's.
> Middle finger is always heavier than index finger. Add to that a ~5g lighter actuated switch and you get that "problem".
> 
> It's most of the time a thing of getting used to it though.


The shell also makes an impact on the feel, too. I've opened my EC1 and the switches feel the same to me granted they sound different. It doesn't bother me that much.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Whoever said that once you go to zowie, you are trapped and can't leave, it is true in my experience. I got the EC1-A and used it for a bit, got mad at the scroll wheel and went back to my Logibrick G502, then went back to the zowie after fixing the scroll wheel bug. Bought an IE 3.0 and tried to tell myself it was better (MLT 04 accuracy is still amazing, but the low PCS...) and I'm currently back to my EC1-A.


----------



## bovi77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> It's never a full 3 month wait.
> 
> My KPO had that same message but suddenly one day it said 'in stock'.


thanks for the reply. anyone else received an EC2-A from amazon recently?


----------



## mandrake88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *csgomouse*
> 
> I think I will return the mouse guys or just give it to my brother or something.. I feel too frustrated because now I have to change muscle memory that I used for all my life.. I never experienced these freezes with any other mouse.. well there goes 70$ for nothing :S
> 
> I had very high hopes from this mouse it feels very good on the hand but that sensor just kills me. and unfortunately the manual to change to LOD doesn't make any difference at all.


i switched from the DA to the FK1 and didn't have that problem. The LOD of the DA is really high, that is correct, but i don't fell my FK "freezing". What pad are u using?


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Whoever said that once you go to zowie, you are trapped and can't leave, it is true in my experience. I got the EC1-A and used it for a bit, got mad at the scroll wheel and went back to my Logibrick G502, then went back to the zowie after fixing the scroll wheel bug. Bought an IE 3.0 and tried to tell myself it was better (MLT 04 accuracy is still amazing, but the low PCS...) and I'm currently back to my EC1-A.


LOL that was me. I still try new mice for fun but Zowie is my home.


----------



## Wizerino

I played quake 3 osp 1.03a CTF at pro level but i did TDM's and what not. Quake 3 is extremely fast game. No other FPS can compare to it honestly.
I started with the ball mouse, logitech pilot, later tried some logi's optical, geniuses, used IMO 1.1a and i loved it. But when I switched to IE 3.0 my game peaked. I don't remember if i played any game so good like quake 3. IE 3.0 palm was that sweet spot with me. Years after i switched to 1.1a and my skill dropped drastically. I bought Razer Deathadder but that wasn't it...then i got Razer abyssus but that was disaster. I performed well with each mice but you know deep down "this **** can get better". I'm back on my 1.1a again and its good.
I held the IE 3.0 few days ago and I always remembered saying "if it was only a liiiitle bit smaller in lenght" and "if only coating was not so plastic", but still i loved the shape and everything. nothing too much to the left nor right. Then i saw zowie releasing the new updated EC-A series. Always wondered if i should get ec2-a or ec1-a...but knowing that ec1-a is a liiitle bit smaller in lenght and has coating that i actually like. I dont think i can go wrong.
the side buttons or mouse wheel is least of my concerns when it comes to a mouse. feeling is everything. find that sweet spot and dont let go the style.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wizerino*
> 
> Always wondered if i should get ec2-a or ec1-a...but knowing that ec1-a is a liiitle bit smaller in lenght and has coating that i actually like. I dont think i can go wrong.
> the side buttons or mouse wheel is least of my concerns when it comes to a mouse. feeling is everything. find that sweet spot and dont let go the style.


Ec1-A is bigger and longer than the ec2-a by a mile. It doesn't look so different, but the difference feels massive imho.


----------



## Wizerino

I know...dimensions are very very similar to the IE 3.0. and i mean VERY.
i tried "smaller" palm grip but its not relaxing as holding a big mouse.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wizerino*
> 
> I know...dimensions are very very similar to the IE 3.0. and i mean VERY.
> i tried "smaller" palm grip but its not relaxing as holding a big mouse.


Oh sorry, I thought you compared Ec1-A to Ec2-A. My mistake.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Transitioning between the IE 3.0 and EC1-A is easy because of similar feels. It is just nice.


----------



## ururu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Whoever said that once you go to zowie, you are trapped and can't leave, it is true in my experience. I got the EC1-A and used it for a bit, got mad at the scroll wheel and went back to my Logibrick G502, *then went back to the zowie after fixing the scroll wheel bug*. Bought an IE 3.0 and tried to tell myself it was better (MLT 04 accuracy is still amazing, but the low PCS...) and I'm currently back to my EC1-A.


how do they fixed it? all ecx-a are fine now?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ururu*
> 
> how do they fixed it? all ecx-a are fine now?


I fixed it myself


----------



## ururu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> I fixed it myself


How? Teach me senpai


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ururu*
> 
> How? Teach me senpai


You have to open up the mouse. Basically, the stick with the spur on it doesn't go into the wheel as far as it is supposed to. You have to make sure it is in as far as it can go. If it isn't cooperating, you bring out the dremel. I'll show pics when I can because my explanation is confusing.


----------



## LegoFarmer

The one thing I hate about my EC1-A is the left click... If I keep depressing it after the switch is actuated, I hear and feel some sort of 2nd click and I know it isn't the switch... Thoughts?


----------



## boogdud

I definitely don't have that with mine. Sounds like maybe there's some flash or excess plastic on the left plunger? Have you opened it up to have a look? Always stinks to have something minor like that, where you're just not quite sure it's worth an rma.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> I definitely don't have that with mine. Sounds like maybe there's some flash or excess plastic on the left plunger? Have you opened it up to have a look? Always stinks to have something minor like that, where you're just not quite sure it's worth an rma.


I have opened the mouse more than anybody else who opens it







I can't figure out the problem tbh.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> I have opened the mouse more than anybody else who opens it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't figure out the problem tbh.


It just means I found the almost perfect mouse and I get so salty when there's a single flaw that I tell it I will leave it for my WMO or IE 3.0 haha. Don't get me wrong, I love my 3.0 still and the WMO is just legendary.


----------



## boogdud

You and me both, man ;-) Only thing i can think of is maybe one of the silver screws may be over-torqued? I kinda doubt it though, since you're really familiar with disassembling/reassembling them.

Now if only we could get them to stop using that solder that requires the heat of the sun to remove...


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> You and me both, man ;-) Only thing i can think of is maybe one of the silver screws may be over-torqued? I kinda doubt it though, since you're really familiar with disassembling/reassembling them.
> 
> Now if only we could get them to stop using that solder that requires the heat of the sun to remove...


With the shell were glossy. I sweat and I prefer gloss. I'm the opposite of everybody lol. Clawing the EC1-A with 18.5cm hands is natural for me, glossy works better for me etc


----------



## ururu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> The one thing I hate about my EC1-A is the left click... If I keep depressing it after the switch is actuated, I hear and feel some sort of 2nd click and I know it isn't the switch... Thoughts?


double click or just sounds like? oO


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ururu*
> 
> double click or just sounds like? oO


Just sound







I'm working on fixing it. A guy said it was possibly an uneven torque issue and it seems possible as everytime I open the mouse, the "double click" feel is on the other side. I'll continue. Once it is fixed, I am not opening it again. Tired of filling the holes with superglue due to stripped holes. That's what happens when you have Lego OCD.


----------



## Wizerino

haha i had that issue with deathadder...
really irritating. i ended up killing it.


----------



## wheeler9691

Some people are claiming that the difference in click latency is negligible. I'm no superhuman, but sometimes when I AWP I can take a shot (ie click) and switch to my knife before I shoot resulting in me just scoping someone and switching to my knife. The only explanation I find plausible is that the FK1's click latency is higher enough than my old G700s that the keyboard input registers first even though I press it second.


----------



## ururu

navi.seized has ec2 evo cl with "huge latency"
navi.edward and f0rest had kinzu v1 with acceleration (in 1.6)
so


----------



## wheeler9691

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ururu*
> 
> navi.seized has ec2 evo cl with "huge latency"
> navi.edward and f0rest had kinzu v1 with acceleration (in 1.6)
> so


Well whoever those two nonames are must not be very good with the awp.


----------



## ururu

em ok. if u think so


----------



## LegoFarmer

Oo F0rest is using a zowie in DH right now


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wheeler9691*
> 
> Well whoever those two nonames are must not be very good with the awp.


Looks like you didn't watch or play much CS because Edward is an 1.6 legend, he's been killer recently.

Also, Guardian who is one of the best AWPers has a Sensei.

Allu uses an EC1. Since DHW 2014 f0rest has been switching between the EC and Kinzu.

KennyS used to have an EC1 or EC2 during ClanMystik times.

Snax who is a really good and smart player has a Zowie FK (maybe switched to a newer model but idk).

When it comes to NA, Steel who is probably one of the best NA players you could've found had a EC2 eVo and Hiko likes to use the Zowie FK apparently (the old one).


----------



## wheeler9691

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pa12a*
> 
> Looks like you didn't watch or play much CS because Edward is an 1.6 legend, he's been killer recently.
> 
> Also, Guardian who is one of the best AWPers has a Sensei.
> 
> Allu uses an EC1. Since DHW 2014 f0rest has been switching between the EC and Kinzu.
> 
> KennyS used to have an EC1 or EC2 during ClanMystik times.
> 
> Snax who is a really good and smart player has a Zowie FK (maybe switched to a newer model but idk).
> 
> When it comes to NA, Steel who is probably one of the best NA players you could've found had a EC2 eVo and Hiko likes to use the Zowie FK apparently (the old one).


The sarcasm was very heavy I thought.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Kenny Liekz Zowie


----------



## ururu

oh my gawd
what if he pick mouse without huge latency


----------



## detto87

Nothing.


----------



## ururu

anyway he used DA13 and uses it now
french cs players and da13







4ever <3


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pa12a*
> 
> When it comes to NA, Steel who is probably one of the best NA players


Yeah, sure


----------



## LegoFarmer

Anybody else have a weight balance problem on the EC1-A? If I press the left mouse button without my hand on the mouse, the butt end lifts off the pad slightly.


----------



## jung1e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wheeler9691*
> 
> Some people are claiming that the difference in click latency is negligible. I'm no superhuman, but sometimes when I AWP I can take a shot (ie click) and switch to my knife before I shoot resulting in me just scoping someone and switching to my knife. The only explanation I find plausible is that the FK1's click latency is higher enough than my old G700s that the keyboard input registers first even though I press it second.


Click latency has to do with the PCB right? I noticed my EC2 shell/clicks are stiffer than my EC1 but they should both have the same click latency right?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jung1e*
> 
> Click latency has to do with the PCB right? I noticed my EC2 shell/clicks are stiffer than my EC1 but they should both have the same click latency right?


There is a setting for the MCU that delays click registration.

Shell design can affect your reaction times.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Anybody else have a weight balance problem on the EC1-A? If I press the left mouse button without my hand on the mouse, the butt end lifts off the pad slightly.


Ever so slightly.


----------



## wheeler9691

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> Yeah, sure


Yea maybe if they don't consider shroud, hiko, skadoodle, azk, swag, Desi, nitro, or elige.


----------



## Meevz0r

Does anyone else have issues with mousewheel getting stuck 'clicked in' ?


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Meevz0r*
> 
> Does anyone else have issues with mousewheel getting stuck 'clicked in' ?


Yes i do!
My wheel gets stuck after I clicked it. It won't pop up back again. Have to scroll/move it to bring it back up. That only happens in some wheel positions though. If I scroll it a bit to a "good wheel position" then I can click it and it comes back up. It isn't useable at all.

I really hope hat the exchange unit I get wont have that problem anymore (or anything else). I love Zowie mice but hate their wheels and lack of quality control.


----------



## ururu

Hiko uses Zowie EC2(evo lol) now


----------



## atarii

because he hates the new zowie 24-step wheel

that said i still feel that the 3090 is way better than 3310 (despite the low ips). The smoothing/angle snapping is killing me. When i use my ec2 evo i totally forgot about my mouse. I am 100% focused on the game. When i use the ec2-a my aim is ok on fast switches, sometimes is a bit off. But when i try to aim moving targets... i am always 3-4 pixel behind.
It doesn't happen with mlt04, am010, 3090 or avago adns 9500. This sluggish feel i have, it only happens with every 3310 (rival, fk1, ec-a) and adns 9800 (i only tried the sensei for 2 hours and i sent it back because was so BAD). This smoothing can help you sometimes, especially on long range shooting, because your aim is steady, controlled. But i hate it most of the times.

JFYk, i never had any clue about sensor names and stuff like that. So i didnt know what was the sensor in my rival or sensei and i instantly noticed this behaviour... so







Never played cs in my life before last year, after 700 hours i am supreme (in eu :v) and i played competively in every fast paced games. In those games you could compensate your aim with your body movements, but in a precise game like cs i can't really stand any 3310 implementation. That's why i'll give a shot to the g303.

That said i basically love everything about the ec2-a, i can notice the lower click latency, i like the shape, i love the mousefeets, BEST MOUSE CABLE EVER (but that's true for every zowie i own), and i never had any issue with the wheel.

So if you dont mind the 3310 i think the ec2-a is the best you can buy ATM.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> In those games you could compensate your aim with your body movements, but in a precise game like cs i can't really stand any 3310 implementation. *That's why i'll give a shot to the g303*. .


Unfortunately, the G303's shape can cause your hand pain like no other. Also, the diagonal accuracy seems to be lacking (at 1000Hz at least).


----------



## Wizerino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> because he hates the new zowie 24-step wheel
> 
> that said i s..........................


whats your hand dimensions? what grip are you using?


----------



## atarii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wizerino*
> 
> whats your hand dimensions? what grip are you using?


20+ cm
fingertip







but in cs i use a fingertip/claw mix.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Unfortunately, the G303's shape can cause your hand pain like no other. Also, the diagonal accuracy seems to be lacking (at 1000Hz at least).


I used the g302 and i couldn't stand the liftoff. And sometimes i could reach the malfunction speed (when fastchecking corners in maps like inferno). Plus i hated the cable and i experienced the wobbling thing. Basically all my problems should be fixed with the g303. The shape isn't optimal but i think i can live with that...


----------



## PAGO

Hello hello,

Is there someone who switched from ec2 evo to ec2-a?

Im asking, because I had some problems with setting sensitivity. I used dpi calculator to check how much I have to raise my sensitivity. I raised it from 2 to 2.25 but it felt really slow compared to old mouse on 2. After some testing I had to raise it to 2.45 to have it similar to my old mouse. Is it normal?

Thanks for the feedback


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PAGO*
> 
> Hello hello,
> 
> Is there someone who switched from ec2 evo to ec2-a?
> 
> Im asking, because I had some problems with setting sensitivity. I used dpi calculator to check how much I have to raise my sensitivity. I raised it from 2 to 2.25 but it felt really slow compared to old mouse on 2. After some testing I had to raise it to 2.45 to have it similar to my old mouse. Is it normal?
> 
> Thanks for the feedback


Different mice can be different. It's much more accurate just to know your CM/360 and stick with that. I use 60cm/360 so I just measure that for every game I play....what ever the hardware.


----------



## ABAD1DEA

i have a problem with the mousewheel too. it gets stuck from time to time -.-


----------



## end0rphine

Looks like zowie are now officially supporting 0.6mm mouse feet for the EC series: http://www.armygroup.com.tw/shop/goods-17850.html


----------



## bovi77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> because he hates the new zowie 24-step wheel
> 
> that said i still feel that the 3090 is way better than 3310 (despite the low ips). The smoothing/angle snapping is killing me. When i use my ec2 evo i totally forgot about my mouse. I am 100% focused on the game. When i use the ec2-a my aim is ok on fast switches, sometimes is a bit off. But when i try to aim moving targets... i am always 3-4 pixel behind.
> It doesn't happen with mlt04, am010, 3090 or avago adns 9500. This sluggish feel i have, it only happens with every 3310 (rival, fk1, ec-a) and adns 9800 (i only tried the sensei for 2 hours and i sent it back because was so BAD). This smoothing can help you sometimes, especially on long range shooting, because your aim is steady, controlled. But i hate it most of the times.
> 
> JFYk, i never had any clue about sensor names and stuff like that. So i didnt know what was the sensor in my rival or sensei and i instantly noticed this behaviour... so
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never played cs in my life before last year, after 700 hours i am supreme (in eu :v) and i played competively in every fast paced games. In those games you could compensate your aim with your body movements, but in a precise game like cs i can't really stand any 3310 implementation. That's why i'll give a shot to the g303.
> 
> That said i basically love everything about the ec2-a, i can notice the lower click latency, i like the shape, i love the mousefeets, BEST MOUSE CABLE EVER (but that's true for every zowie i own), and i never had any issue with the wheel.
> 
> So if you dont mind the 3310 i think the ec2-a is the best you can buy ATM.


Which DPI do you use your EC2 evo at? have you noticed any difference in the tracking at different DPIs? also which mousepad do you use? thanks!


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PAGO*
> 
> Hello hello,
> 
> Is there someone who switched from ec2 evo to ec2-a?
> 
> Im asking, because I had some problems with setting sensitivity. I used dpi calculator to check how much I have to raise my sensitivity. I raised it from 2 to 2.25 but it felt really slow compared to old mouse on 2. After some testing I had to raise it to 2.45 to have it similar to my old mouse. Is it normal?
> 
> Thanks for the feedback


The old Zowie mice with the 3090 sensor have slightly different cpi steps than what is advertised. Surely because of the custom lens.

For my Zowie FK it's 470 instead of 450, 1200 instead of 1150, and 2380 instead of 2300. So basically 2 sensitivity on an old Zowie mouse would be equal to 2.35 at 400, at least for the EC1/EC2 and FK, not sure about the eVo version, but it's there on the forum somewhere.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bovi77*
> 
> Which DPI do you use your EC2 evo at? have you noticed any difference in the tracking at different DPIs? also which mousepad do you use? thanks!


I used my FK at 450 and 2300 before, they feel the same. Or better said, I played just as good with both settings, so I went back to 450/470 after a while.


----------



## phamtom

How much thinner is the ec2 compared to the ec1? If the fk1 cramped my hand, would the ec2 do it aswell?


----------



## ixelion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phamtom*
> 
> How much thinner is the ec2 compared to the ec1? If the fk1 cramped my hand, would the ec2 do it aswell?


its a lot thinner my hands are 18cm and the fleshy part of my thumb was not supported, so my hand cramped after a while.


----------



## atarii

I have to share this.
If you remember i had problems with both my ec2-a on colored pads, moving the mouse too fast on my puretrak talent caused disconnects. Yesterday i plugged the mouse to my usb 3.0. Guess what, the issue doesn't happen when the mouse is connected to usb 3.0 xD


----------



## Brightmist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atarii*
> 
> I have to share this.
> If you remember i had problems with both my ec2-a on colored pads, moving the mouse too fast on my puretrak talent caused disconnects. Yesterday i plugged the mouse to my usb 3.0. Guess what, the issue doesn't happen when the mouse is connected to usb 3.0 xD


What motherboard your system's built on ?


----------



## atarii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> What motherboard your system's built on ?


http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P8P67_PRO_REV_31/ (mine is the rev 3.0)

Renesas USB 3.0 controller :
4 x USB 3.0 port(s) (2 at mid-board)
Intel® P67(B3) chipset :
12 x USB 2.0 port(s) (6 at back panel, black, 6 at mid-board)

I dont think i fried all my usb 2.0
And my mice (rival, fk1, g303, etc.) work on my usb2 flawlessly.

Can it be some compatibility issue?


----------



## atarii

does mousetester have problems with usb 3.0? Because my graph is like that when i use my mouse on a usb 3.0. I tried it in game and it's perfect...



*EDIT:* i think my usb 3 port sucks when the mouse is using 1k polling rate. With 500hz the graph is fine...


----------



## ramraze

Need some advice. Is there anyone who has swapped the shell of Ec1-a or Ec2-a? What I wonder is if it is possible to mix and match shells, like for example I want the sides of the ec1 evo, but the top of ec1-a. I know you can swap whole shells, but I'm wondering if you can mix parts.


----------



## boogdud

You can swap the top, but you'll need to swap out the small board that's on the top part of the mouse, the new boards are not compatible with the old main board. I tried something similar when trying to put omrons on. I wish zowie would start using different solder on their switches. That stuff is like adamantium, you have to heat it to a million degrees to get it to drop and it always ends up burning the board.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> You can swap the top, but you'll need to swap out the small board that's on the top part of the mouse, the new boards are not compatible with the old main board. I tried something similar when trying to put omrons on. I wish zowie would start using different solder on their switches. That stuff is like adamantium, you have to heat it to a million degrees to get it to drop and it always ends up burning the board.


What do you mean by board? Im only talking about shells. I would keep EC1-A guts(everything from the rightmost in the picture), put EC1 Evo midpart(middle part in the picture) and take EC1-A top (left part in the picture).
Would this work?


----------



## ramraze

Btw, anybody who modded their Ec2-a or ec1-a, did you guys have any problems with clicks or so-called compatibility with mixed shells? Sorry to spam but need an answer


----------



## Wizerino

dude if you want, check this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhzCnx8n6pE
its about dismanlting ec2-a. try to contact the guy who posted the video. maybe he could have an answer for you.


----------



## backie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Btw, anybody who modded their Ec2-a or ec1-a, did you guys have any problems with clicks or so-called compatibility with mixed shells? Sorry to spam but need an answer


No its exactly the same upper shell, I've modded my ec2-a with my ec2 evo white side and top.


----------



## vanir1337

Alright, I'm probably gonna decide between ZA12 and EC2-A and I would like to know that how many people experienced the scrollwheel bug on the EC2-A before? I could buy the EC2-A for cheaper and with a better warranty, and also - I know I like that shape.


----------



## detto87

Wheel is flawed on pretty much any Zowie mouse, so look for other deciding factors, mainly shape.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Wheel is flawed on pretty much any Zowie mouse, so look for other deciding factors, mainly shape.


Fixing the wheel on zowie mice isn't hard. You void your warranty in the process, but their warranty isn't anything special. Their customer support is meh. I would verify everything else works as it should before fixing the wheel. You only void warranty if you take the screws out under the labeling, but they wouldn't know if you opened it on the FK and ZA line because the four screws are under the mouse skates.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Fixing the wheel on zowie mice isn't hard.


Teach me senpai!


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Fixing the wheel on zowie mice isn't hard. You void your warranty in the process, but their warranty isn't anything special. Their customer support is meh. I would verify everything else works as it should before fixing the wheel. You only void warranty if you take the screws out under the labeling, but they wouldn't know if you opened it on the FK and ZA line because the four screws are under the mouse skates.


With good shops, you could even remove the sticker and glue it back on. Some local shops here only check that the mouse is in the package, and you can either get a new one or your money back







I have abused that sadly a few times







But anyway, depends how long you've had it I guess. If you have to send it back to Zowie then it's a little different


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> What do you mean by board? Im only talking about shells. I would keep EC1-A guts(everything from the rightmost in the picture), put EC1 Evo midpart(middle part in the picture) and take EC1-A top (left part in the picture).
> Would this work?


Sorry I was away for the weekend. I meant the small circuit board that is used solely for the buttons. I thought you were going to take the whole assembly out. In your case if you're just swapping the two shells it should work just fine. It's been a few weeks since I juggled shells but my EC2a top and sides fit just fine on an old EC2evo bottom. I believe the two parts you're referring to are interchangeable on all of the evo-a models.


----------



## discoprince

so can i buy this mouse now or what??

i love my evo ec2 cl but its real ratty right now, in need of a replacement.


----------



## solz

if you like the size of the WMO 1.1a, which should i pick?


----------



## detto87

Probably the ZA12.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Probably the ZA12.


Agreed. Matches the length, height, and weight of the WMO where the ZA11 is only closer in width, but that is important to many.


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

The hump is in the wrong spot though. I think it would feel pretty different.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> Agreed. Matches the length, height, and weight of the WMO where the ZA11 is only closer in width, but that is important to many.


While the ZA11 is closer in width, the WMO might actually fit between the ZA11 and ZA12 for width only.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1552218/zowie-za-11-12-13-mouse/760#post_23903708
Need to wait for more opinions like that though before making safe assumptions here.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oh wow Secret Cow*
> 
> The hump is in the wrong spot though. I think it would feel pretty different.


Think so too.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> While the ZA11 is closer in width, the WMO might actually fit between the ZA11 and ZA12 for width only.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1552218/zowie-za-11-12-13-mouse/760#post_23903708
> Need to wait for more opinions like that though before making safe assumptions here.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Think so too.


Still playing it safe and getting the 12 if I decide to buy a ZA.


----------



## pgabor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solz*
> 
> if you like the size of the WMO 1.1a, which should i pick?


FK1 has a similar front as the WMO, and the Kana has a similar back as the WMO (but both lower in heigth than the WMO). I have the ZA12 as well, but the hump is at the back not in the middle like on the other ones, so it feels a little bit different. From a CS:GO point of view, i prefer the FK1 for AWPing, but i think the ZA12 or the FK2 is better at rifling. Although maybe from all, my favorite shape is the Kana, i couldn't recommend it, i had a really bad experience with all the 3090 sensors (see:http://www.overclock.net/t/1485487/kana-v2-tracking-problem and had this problem with the EC1 and the Deathadder 3.5G as well, they just cant handle my 9y old QcK+ and therefore i cant trust them on any other surface), and the build quality of the kana is not up to the quality of the zowies. For a little perspective: I'm playing CS since 2001, main AWPer of every team i ever had, i play at [email protected] dpi = 61cm/360°, my hand is 19.5cm.


----------



## burgergod

Even though I hate Zowie's support I got the EC2a (i'm an EC2 evo owner) and the sensor is finally capable of keeping up with the speed I need. It clicks good, it scrolls good, Good LOD. I'm happy. The EC2evo failed me way before I reached my own physical limits.


----------



## ramraze

Don't see what's so great with zowie's build quality. No QC,rattling scrollwheels, both of my ec1-as have give on the sidepanels, wobbly sidebuttons. Kana is defo better. Even though I very much like the ec1-a, you can't argue that zowie has good build quality. That's imo


----------



## pgabor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Don't see what's so great with zowie's build quality. No QC,rattling scrollwheels, both of my ec1-as have give on the sidepanels, wobbly sidebuttons. Kana is defo better. Even though I very much like the ec1-a, you can't argue that zowie has good build quality. That's imo


I'm not into their scrollwheels, they have a "disconnected" feel to them, but so far i had a FK1, FK2, EC2-A, and now a ZA12, and none of the them rattled. Sidebuttons seem fine to me (but seen better), but I'm not really using them, so its never was a concern for me. What i really mean under build quality is the shell, it is sturdy as f*ck, meanwhile the kana's upper shell is flimsy in comparison, and it has an effect on the feel of the clicks, they have way less crispness to them then like my wmo, which let be honest, nowhere near up to today's standards from a shell standpoint. The kana's upper shell is thin, and even after the microswitch clicks, the button still has travel because it bends a little bit, and it annoys the hell out of me. The only shell problem i found on the Zowie mice i mentioned before was the one with the EC2-A, when you press the left side "panel" at the front, it gives a click sound, but thats it.


----------



## ururu

blue huanos more soft then usual huanos
and old soft-touch coating on ec evo over9000 > new
24 pos scroll mmm


----------



## ururu

where I can buy duct tape with soft touch?








800 dpi 6/11 missed u t_t


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ururu*
> 
> where I can buy duct tape with soft touch?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 800 dpi 6/11 missed u t_t


Who is that in your avatar?


----------



## ururu

human
woman
smiling


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

I hope the mousegods of oc.net can help me, I've been looking for a MX518 replacement for a long time now but haven't been able to find one yet, I've tested various mice but all had one flaw of some sort. I'm a fingertip gripper grabbing mouse with my thumb and pinky and ringfinger at the otherside while keeping a bit of a distance at the palm for the mouse while the fingertips are resting lightly on the mouse.

Mice I've tested are:

DeathAdder - A bit too tall/bulky size-wise, shape quite good, the way it had this bulky top made me sometimes press the thumb buttons by accident (the first version)

Steelseries Kinzu V2 - I really enjoyed the lightness and such but ultimately it was too small for me and hurted my wrist a bit and my palm touched the mousepad too much for my liking

Steelseries Kana V2 - I thought it felt still a bit small, mostly height-wise, also there wasn't enough room for my thumb so I sometimes accidentaly clicked the sidebutton

Roccat Savu - Good size for me, ultimately not ideal shape, the peak of the mouse was positioned a bit further back and seems I prefer it being fairly centered. Also the butt of the mouse was too rectangular shaped

Microsoft IME 3.0 - Too long and low-profile, felt weird in my hand and the sidebuttons felt uber cheap

Zowie FK - Don't remember much other than the shape didn't quite work for me, might have been too low-profile I think

Funnily though IME 1.1 shape seems to work good for me (I've tested a China copy of that model whit a very poor sensor and hence unuseable) despite the mouse is small and dimension-wise smaller than several of the above it still felt sufficient in size, must be that it's less "egg-shaped" than most newer mice which leads to the newer mice feeling smaller and the hand touching the mousepad more which doesn't feel great to me since I only want my wrist to touch the mousepad (cloth).

That said, seems like I might give Zowie EC a try next but I'm very unsure whether EC2-A or EC1-A would be a better fit for me, what do you reckon?

These EC mice seems to be rather tall which makes it hard to predict the suitable width and length. Compared to MX518 which is only like 36-37 mm tall (but feels much taller than that compared to the other mice I've mentioned here, probably because of the width & shape) the EC2 is already 40 mm but only 120 mm long compared to 130 mm of MX518 (which is a bit unnecessary long) The width of MX518 is 70 mm though and EC2 only 64 mm at the widest part and EC1 69 mm so it's very difficult to tell, I seem to need fairly wide mice but the height of 43 mm of EC1 makes it sound really big.

I guess what I'm particularly interested in hearing from this thread, how does the EC2 or 1 feel size-wise compared to other popular mice I've mentioned in this thread since it seems the actual dimensions doesn't always seem like being an accurate representation of how it feels in the hand.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RPGWiZaRD*
> 
> I hope the mousegods of oc.net can help me, I've been looking for a MX518 replacement for a long time now but haven't been able to find one yet, I've tested various mice but all had one flaw of some sort. I'm a fingertip gripper grabbing mouse with my thumb and pinky and ringfinger at the otherside while keeping a bit of a distance at the palm for the mouse while the fingertips are resting lightly on the mouse.
> 
> Mice I've tested are:
> 
> DeathAdder - A bit too tall/bulky size-wise, shape quite good, the way it had this bulky top made me sometimes press the thumb buttons by accident (the first version)
> 
> Steelseries Kinzu V2 - I really enjoyed the lightness and such but ultimately it was too small for me and hurted my wrist a bit and my palm touched the mousepad too much for my liking
> 
> Steelseries Kana V2 - I thought it felt still a bit small, mostly height-wise, also there wasn't enough room for my thumb so I sometimes accidentaly clicked the sidebutton
> 
> Roccat Savu - Good size for me, ultimately not ideal shape, the peak of the mouse was positioned a bit further back and seems I prefer it being fairly centered. Also the butt of the mouse was too rectangular shaped
> 
> Microsoft IME 3.0 - Too long and low-profile, felt weird in my hand and the sidebuttons felt uber cheap
> 
> Zowie FK - Don't remember much other than the shape didn't quite work for me, might have been too low-profile I think
> 
> Funnily though IME 1.1 shape seems to work good for me (I've tested a China copy of that model whit a very poor sensor and hence unuseable) despite the mouse is small and dimension-wise smaller than several of the above it still felt sufficient in size, must be that it's less "egg-shaped" than most newer mice which leads to the mice feeling smaller and the hand touching the mousepad more which doesn't feel great to me.
> 
> That said, seems like I might give Zowie EC a try next but I'm very unsure whether EC2-A or EC1-A would be a better fit for me, what do you reckon?


EC2-A. Slightly smaller than the DA, EC1-A is slightly bigger.


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> EC2-A. Slightly smaller than the DA, EC1-A is slightly bigger.


Thanks, that's a very helpful reply since DA is a good comparison to what I need, it was just tiny bit too bulky/tall.







I've also spotted a EC2-A barely used for sale in a local forum.


----------



## Wizerino

my fellow wizard, i think you would want the ec2-a


----------



## ramraze

The Ec1-A doesn't feel that high tbh, because the hump is more forward and more evenly spread out on the mice. Imho the ec2 is sllightly narrow, but could work. It's not as narrow as the ZA series, though. Ec1-a is where it's at for more relaxed grips / wider mice. EC2 feels mega short compared to EC1, though.


----------



## solz

Maybe a stupid qeustion but how can you change the LOD of the EC2-A i cant find any explanation of how to do this


----------



## rivage

Hi peeps,

Do any of these mices have problems with tracking on color pads? (I have the goliathus speed edition) cuz I kinda want to try them out since I'm getting bored with my DA 2K13 (is there a better mice to replace it or the EC1/2-A series are just fine for that?)

thank's!


----------



## LegoFarmer

Wow... I changed my polling rate on my EC1-A to 1000hz and it started to malfunction at like 4.2m/s, so I put it back at 500 and it didn't change the problem...
EDIT: Nvm, the LoD setting was changed and that screws up the tracking because I have double-stacked skates. It is fine.


----------



## b0z0

I have to RMA my EC2-a after a week. The scroll wheel randomly scrolls which is annoying as hell when playing CSGO.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> I have to RMA my EC2-a after a week. The scroll wheel randomly scrolls which is annoying as hell when playing CSGO.


That's an easy fix if you really enjoy the mouse aside from that. I'll make a tut when my ZA12 arrives if it has the same issue that my EC1-A had.


----------



## Wizerino

how'd ya fix it?


----------



## backie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> That's an easy fix if you really enjoy the mouse aside from that. I'll make a tut when my ZA12 arrives if it has the same issue that my EC1-A had.


Please do


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solz*
> 
> Maybe a stupid qeustion but how can you change the LOD of the EC2-A i cant find any explanation of how to do this


Here you go: FAQ Page of EC-A series
Quote:


> If you feel the lift-off distance is too low:
> Please disconnect the mouse and hold down M4 + M1 + M2 and then connect the mouse through USB
> 
> If you feel the lift-off distance is too high:
> Please disconnect the mouse, hold down M4 + M1 and then connect the mouse through USB
> 
> If you want to back to standard setting !
> Please disconnect the mouse, hold down M5 + M1 and then connect the mouse through USB


----------



## hahahoha

considering to buy one, have two questions
1) do you actually feel a difference between the old ec2 and the new ec2-a?
2) is the click stiffer or softer than the old ec2?


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hahahoha*
> 
> considering to buy one, have two questions
> 1) do you actually feel a difference between the old ec2 and the new ec2-a?
> 2) is the click stiffer or softer than the old ec2?


The coating on the Ec2-a has a better grip. It's not slippery like the evo was, and the mouse clicks feel identical. The right mouse buttons seem to be a little stiffer than the the Evo.


----------



## Injectelo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RPGWiZaRD*
> 
> I hope the mousegods of oc.net can help me, I've been looking for a MX518 replacement for a long time now but haven't been able to find one yet...... SNIP.


Hi,

I too have been looking for a replacement for my MX518 for the longest time. I have settled on a Roccat XTD but made the mistake of ordering the laser version. The roccat is not without it's problems (It feels heavy, unsatisfying clicks, double click issues early on, sensor stops tracking randomly...) but was the closest thing to comfortable I could find.

Therefore I am now looking for a replacement to the legendary mx518 again!

Would love your feedback, or any1 else's, on the EC2 compared to mx518. Other suggestions besides the EC2 are welcome of course.

Cheers!

Edit: BTW, I use a Fingertip grip


----------



## SoFGR

just got mine yesterday

https://plus.google.com/photos/110878775693849541659/albums/6151063210471700081/6151063212339740818?pid=6151063212339740818&oid=110878775693849541659

https://plus.google.com/photos/110878775693849541659/albums/6114133739568254241/6114133733422605986?pid=6114133733422605986&oid=110878775693849541659

https://plus.google.com/photos/110878775693849541659/albums/5994483807802127217/5994483802641881186?pid=5994483802641881186&oid=110878775693849541659

been an IME 3.0 fan since early 2002, alcor was good but he off center sensor position and some negative accel were hindering me a bit, stock feet are crap too !

EC2 non evo had glossy side and weird tracking feel due to custom lens, omron clicks were mushy too, bugged 500hz setting

EC2 evo had better. more tacticle clicks but they were also laggy ( 16ms+ ) lens was still troublesome giving jitter issues and low perfect control speed - 500hz still bugged - it skipped easily on fast flicks when i used a black colored mousepad instead of a red one, coating was full rubber but kinda of "soapy" like no grip at all when fresh out the box

EC2-A has none of the above issues, third time's the charm they say









it's been a while since i got an ace in csgo, haven't played MM for over 3 weeks now on purpose, dropped from MGE to MG2 but still worth it

steam://rungame/730/76561202255233023/+csgo_download_match%20CSGO-TdNEG-9BM7Z-vdjpb-fHxxw-F3VTB

35:24


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoFGR*
> 
> just got mine yesterday
> 
> https://plus.google.com/photos/110878775693849541659/albums/6151063210471700081/6151063212339740818?pid=6151063212339740818&oid=110878775693849541659
> 
> https://plus.google.com/photos/110878775693849541659/albums/6114133739568254241/6114133733422605986?pid=6114133733422605986&oid=110878775693849541659
> 
> https://plus.google.com/photos/110878775693849541659/albums/5994483807802127217/5994483802641881186?pid=5994483802641881186&oid=110878775693849541659
> 
> been an IME 3.0 fan since early 2002, alcor was good but he off center sensor position and some negative accel were hindering me a bit, stock feet are crap too !
> 
> EC2 non evo had glossy side and weird tracking feel due to custom lens, omron clicks were mushy too, bugged 500hz setting
> 
> EC2 evo had better. more tacticle clicks but they were also laggy ( 16ms+ ) lens was still troublesome giving jitter issues and low perfect control speed - 500hz still bugged - it skipped easily on fast flicks when i used a black colored mousepad instead of a red one, coating was full rubber but kinda of "soapy" like no grip at all when fresh out the box
> 
> EC2-A has none of the above issues, third time's the charm they say
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's been a while since i got an ace in csgo, haven't played MM for over 3 weeks now on purpose, dropped from MGE to MG2 but still worth it
> 
> steam://rungame/730/76561202255233023/+csgo_download_match%20CSGO-TdNEG-9BM7Z-vdjpb-fHxxw-F3VTB
> 
> 35:24


I don't think anyone is going to bother watching you play just saying.


----------



## bond10

To anyone that has both an EC2-A and an FK1. Which one has quieter clicks?


----------



## uNfEiL

Whats the difference between Zowie EC-a and ZA series in terms of sensor, size, switches, etc...


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uNfEiL*
> 
> Whats the difference between Zowie EC-a and ZA series in terms of sensor, size, switches, etc...


The switches in the ZA are farther towards the front than the EC series, so they feel stiffer. I personally don't mind it, but I instead prefer it. They're more tactile in the ZA. Same sensor, too. I own the ZA12 and EC1-A. It depends if you like small or big mice.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> The switches in the ZA are farther towards the front than the ZA series


I think you screwed up there.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> I think you screwed up there.


I just corrected myself. Thanks


----------



## chrispow

What do you all think about the mousewheel? I returned an EC1-A that was smooth up and really stiff/uneven down and it's important to me that it feels smooth. I would like to hear some thoughts from you guys before ordering another.


----------



## detto87

If you want a good mouse wheel and that aspect is important to you, all I can recommend is to stay away from Zowie.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> If you want a good mouse wheel and that aspect is important to you, all I can recommend is to stay away from Zowie.


really? i love all their mouse wheel's from vanilla fk to ec2 evo cL. thats pretty much the reason i buy them, that and their cable and the no drivers. and the ec2 shape ohhhhhh i love the ec2 shape. i was missing the 800dpi step on the ec2 evo, problem is solved now though.

the closest i found so far that i like is the g302.


----------



## detto87

Well, every mouse wheel from every mouse I bought from them is broken. Every single one. That includes FK, FK1, FK2, EC2 eVo, EC2-A, EC1-A.


----------



## Audio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> To anyone that has both an EC2-A and an FK1. Which one has quieter clicks?


I don't have the EC2-A , but i have the EC1-A the clicks are much quiter on the EC1-A.


----------



## AnimalK

I had to return my first EC2-A because it was missing the occasional scroll. My second Ec2-A has a perfect tactile, precise and easy to use scroll wheel.

I agree that having so many people reporting bad scroll wheels is unacceptable and they need to address this immediately.


----------



## uNfEiL

Is there anyone with 17cm hand size or so that can tell me which mouse fits him the best? Currently using MX518 but I find it a little big.


(am I calculating it right? It's 17cm isn't it?)


----------



## skajohyros

You're doing it right. I have the same sized hand and the ec2 is perfect.


----------



## thumus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uNfEiL*
> 
> Is there anyone with 17cm hand size or so that can tell me which mouse fits him the best? Currently using MX518 but I find it a little big.
> 
> 
> (am I calculating it right? It's 17cm isn't it?)


I have the same hand size aswell, the EC2 works perfectly.


----------



## detto87

For 19cm hands and larger definitely EC1-A.


----------



## SoFGR

to all EC-A owners, here's my 2 current issues with the mouse

1) those huge feet are causing high amounts of "stiction" I've tried 7 different mousepads so far

*infensus OP* (pretty much a puretrak talent with stitched edges) is ok, but the room hudity is around 60-65% https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/6mJRSLVjzQ-rNHaWgN922-IBcgUrSxvcWMmnFUzFaK4=w1113-h835-no as soon as some of it gets absorbed into the weave, the glide becomes noticeably sticky

it's a very irritating problem really, especially if you only have a few hours a day for csgo matchmaking and you absolutely need to perform at your 100%

the day before yesterday glide was pretty balanced, not too fast not too slow, I even managed to do 7 consecutive deagle oneshots D2 long doors during my usual dm session !

yesterday i managed to get 3 hours off during the noon and play some mm with LE-LEM friends but the glide was way too sticky, thankfully they carried me over and won the game









got a pretty extensive "collection" of mouse surfaces, so i tried an *everglide titan* afterwards in DM

too rough - very slow, maybe it needed a good pass over it with the hair dryer

*hayate otsu* -> glide is fine, performs consistently too thanks to the polyester cloth, very uncomfortable for my skin tho, it actually makes me adjust my grip in a weird way and move the mouse as less as possible

*func C series XL* grudge black -> weird slow glide, just can't get used to it

*shiden KAI* XSOFT -> mouse glides very nicely over it, too bad its coating makes my palm feel sticky

*sharkoon 1337 XL* -> this one is pretty nice, too bad surface changed alot after trying to clean it 4-5 times with a baby wipe, the rubber base is also unusable now

*hien SOFT L* black -> that's my current one, balanced glide with a bit of feedback which is always nice ! feels rough to the skin but not too rough, could be because of age, wear and tear, it is not a brand new one.

soooo I'm currently between 2 pads, infensus OP ( one good hair dryer pass everyday before the play session ) and hien soft, which is currently covered so i doesn't attract much dust ( tried baby wipes in the past, washing with luke warm water and a lint roller, still holds ups fine it seems )

should i just use MS 3.0 feet and call it a day ?

2)

*LOD*

it's freaking low on every mousepad except the shiny infensus OP, tried holding down M1+M2+M4 ( back side button ) before plugging it in to the usb, felt no difference whatsover, is this normal ? should i try the M1+M2+M5 combo when i get back home ?? atleast the response is perfect 1:1 in EVERY mousepad i've tried so far, no pos accel no neg no skipping !! couldn't say the same thing for cm storm alcor nor EC2 evo


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoFGR*
> 
> *hayate otsu* -> glide is fine, performs consistently too thanks to the polyester cloth, very uncomfortable for my skin tho, it actually makes me adjust my grip in a weird way and move the mouse as less as possible


In what way is the Otsu uncomfortable? Is the wrist or skin in general slightly sticking on it? Or is it another problem like roughness.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoFGR*
> 
> should i just use MS 3.0 feet and call it a day ?


Those 4 small MS 3.0 Hyperglide feet are still one of the best imho. If they weren't so expensive I'd probably put them on all my mice. Try it out!


----------



## SoFGR

my skin hates it ! original hayate was much smoother to the touch.

otsu's surface forces me to hold the mouse in a slightly different way, so that my pinky never makes no contact with the cloth.

same problem with corepad cerro, zowie G-TF speed/rough and most hybrid/plastic/glass mousepads

I'll mess with the feet after making sure that "original LOD mode" is activated, current LOD is less than 2 CDs :S


----------



## vtor66

Have someone accel test?


----------



## SoFGR

^ no need, the sensor is very reliable and much less surface dependant than alcor/savu's 3090

back to MGE and hayate otsu btw


----------



## Sirinava

Hey man, I have both. I used and loved the FK1, but some things niggled at me, so I decided to risk the EC2 -A.

The Ec2-a is superior in all the ways the FK1 fell short. It has slightly less resistive clicks, better grip imo, better scroll wheel (thank god) same great cable and same surface finish.

Only for the dpi colour wheel ( I would love it to be blue on 400 dpi or even all the time) this would be the perfect mouse for me...

Siri.


----------



## Jhexp

I'm not able to try one of these so I'll ask here - For claw grip should I get the EC2-A or one of the FK Zowies? I have been using a Sensei for a few years but want a change. I'm leaning towards the EC2-A.

Thanks.


----------



## Nightingale

I want to buy either the ec2 or 1 both of which I have placed my hands on over at the computer store display units. My only concern as of right now is of the massive complaints people have made in regards to the scroll wheel bugging out on them.


----------



## detto87

I can only speak for the EC1-A. The wheel is pure garbage on it. Maybe they don't have that problem on the EC2-A, but I doubt it would be any good. I'm spoiled now by the G303 wheel anyway.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nightingale*
> 
> I want to buy either the ec2 or 1 both of which I have placed my hands on over at the computer store display units. My only concern as of right now is of the massive complaints people have made in regards to the scroll wheel bugging out on them.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I can only speak for the EC1-A. The wheel is pure garbage on it. Maybe they don't have that problem on the EC2-A, but I doubt it would be any good. I'm spoiled now by the G303 wheel anyway.


I bought an EC2-A a month ago, it doesn't have any problems with the scrollwheel.
With the FK1 my scrollwheel would activate randomly, I've died a few times in CSGO because of that (I bind scrollwheelup to jump)

They might have fixed it in the newer batches, idk


----------



## detto87

My latest try/buy of the EC1-A is only a few days back. I guess it's related to the shell which obviously differs because of size (duh).

I really tried but it always failed me. And I don't see me spending so much money anymore in any Ziwie product if it doesn't deliver the quality it should have for that price.

Too bad that atm so many jump onto the Zowie bandwagon and pay even higher prices now for the ZA series (70€? ***?!). I bought a new G303 for 55€.


----------



## hiccup

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> My latest try/buy of the EC1-A is only a few days back. I guess it's related to the shell which obviously differs because of size (duh).
> 
> I really tried but it always failed me. And I don't see me spending so much money anymore in any Ziwie product if it doesn't deliver the quality it should have for that price.
> 
> Too bad that atm so many jump onto the Zowie bandwagon and pay even higher prices now for the ZA series (70€? ***?!). I bought a new G303 for 55€.


where can you get a G303 for that price?


----------



## Jhexp

Hmmm, went through this thread and it's put me off buying one.


----------



## uNfEiL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sirinava*
> 
> Hey man, I have both. I used and loved the FK1, but some things niggled at me, so I decided to risk the EC2 -A.
> 
> The Ec2-a is superior in all the ways the FK1 fell short. It has slightly less resistive clicks, better grip imo, better scroll wheel (thank god) same great cable and same surface finish.


The one should not take it serious. It's just pure preference. Speaking about EC2-A vs FK1 I find FK1 superior. I've got 17cm hand size and I find I grip FK1 way more better. Also the side buttons on EC2-A are garbage, FK1 superior again. I've been using omrons for past like 15 years and I really like huanos in FK1 (2k15 version I guess), they feel really nice even in moba League of Legends. I was really scared of them but they feel also better than EC2-A. Speaking about scroll - I see no downside in Fk1 against EC2-A. I think I've finally found my dream mouse.

(ZA13, ZA12, ZA11, FK1, EC2-A)
ZA13 - too small, awkward ass
ZA12 - OK, awkward ass
ZA13 - too big, awkward ass
FK1 - perfect
EC2-A - OK but it does not feel naturally in my hand


----------



## detto87

@uNfeil: what hand size do you have? http://abload.de/img/hand_size_diagramitosm.jpg

And: awkward ass?


----------



## Nightingale

I think Zowie is way Overpriced, however the shape and fell of the mouse is there strongest asset to me, it just fit's like a glove(EC1 or 2). Deathadder(too big/tall) Logitech's(hate the shape) Rival( too long) Roccat Pure military( above average). Love how Zowie offers the same mouse shape in two different sizes. With that being said they charge a Premium and while I can live with this, I can't accept the numerous and serious Quality control problems customers are experiencing for such a high priced mouse.


----------



## uNfEiL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> @uNfeil: what hand size do you have? http://abload.de/img/hand_size_diagramitosm.jpg
> 
> And: awkward ass?


I've mentioned it - 17 cm. Can't comment width cuz I'm not at home.
I meant that high butt of ZA series that they differ from FK1.


----------



## Nightingale

Bought the EC1-A and while I like the shape of the mouse I have found one major problem. The new coating that Zowie uses is too slippery for me. I have calloused hands and I prefer a tacky rubberized coating(deathadder, CM Spawn etc...) as it allows me to have better grip of the mouse. The new Coating used on the EC1 is between glossy and tack and is causing my thumb to constantly slide, so i'm not to pleased. I'm probably going to return it to back to the store. I had high hopes as this is my first ever owned Zowie mouse, unfortunately coating is a deal breaker for me.


----------



## exitone

Even though Amazon has the g303 for $50, they have a killer del on the Ec1-a for an amazing price of $78!


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> Even though Amazon has the g303 for $50, they have a killer del on the Ec1-a for an amazing price of $78!


Maybe there is a special reason for that.


----------



## Nightingale

Just wanna make sure I don't have a defective mouse shell, but am I crazy to think the coating is slippery on the EC series? My hand keeps sliding of the mouse.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nightingale*
> 
> Just wanna make sure I don't have a defective mouse shell, but am I crazy to think the coating is slippery on the EC series? My hand keeps sliding of the mouse.


It's not just you. Common issue for dry hands.


----------



## Houser

Hey guys !!! I have a zowie ec2-A and just changed the feet with some huricane( think they are teflone). I am using it with the roccat taito king size 5mm... The glide its pretty good now but I want to switch to something faster, while my gt f speed is perfect glide but its to thin.
My question is what mouse pad do you use with these big mouse feet and wich one is better for a fast but also controlled glide. Thx

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


----------



## RPGWiZaRD

I got the EC2-A today and I'm a bit so-so in my opinion of it.

I'm a big fan of the good ol' MX518/G400 shape so I've for a very long time tried to find a replacement since they are discontinued now as well and coming from that what I feel doesn't make EC2-A equally comfortable or good feeling (stable in the hand) is mostly two things:

- The thumbrest isn't ergonomically shaped as on MX518, wish more manufacturers opted for a carved out shape for the thumb like Logitech (enhances stability and ergonomics)
- The sidebuttons feel mushy and cheap. Logitech still has the best sidebuttons around, why doesn't manufacturers dump the plasticky buttons in favor for a more rubber feeling material, that would seriously enhance the feel of the buttons. Also coming from MX it's clear the shape also plays a great role of those, the narrow MX ones become easier to press (more tactile?) when they stick out a bit and very narrow/oval shaped, it feels easier and this goes with all the plasticky sidebuttons I've tested with also feature that same bad shape of them.

I play mostly UT4 alpha right now and I have single-tap dodge set for sidebutton to use with wall dodging mostly and with MX518 it's a pleasure to use like that but with EC2-A it feels more of a challenge to use it like that.

Size and shape and weight is good on the EC2-A so it's a keeper at least but I'm very unsure if it will replace my MX518 (already considering grabbing a G400s 2nd hand to be on the safe side for the future.


----------



## Bucake

@RPGWiZaRD

i understand what you say well. and i don't dig the huanos, either.
i'm already back at using the G400..


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> I bought an EC2-A a month ago, it doesn't have any problems with the scrollwheel.
> With the FK1 my scrollwheel would activate randomly, I've died a few times in CSGO because of that (I bind scrollwheelup to jump)
> 
> They might have fixed it in the newer batches, idk


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> My latest try/buy of the EC1-A is only a few days back. I guess it's related to the shell which obviously differs because of size (duh).
> 
> I really tried but it always failed me. And I don't see me spending so much money anymore in any Ziwie product if it doesn't deliver the quality it should have for that price.
> 
> Too bad that atm so many jump onto the Zowie bandwagon and pay even higher prices now for the ZA series (70€? ***?!). I bought a new G303 for 55€.


Well, after a few days of use it has started sticking... meh. That's my first problem ever with a Zowie mouse.
I'll open it later and try to fix it, I've seen a tutorial in this thread so let's see how it goes.

Do you guys know where I can buy some original zowie feet? I've been using both pairs since forever. I know that takasta does sell some nice feet, but I want as close as possible to the original ones


----------



## Sencha

Hyper glide sell them now. I got a pair and for the size they are good. But they create way to much drag in comparison to 1.1/3.0 feet on cloth. I'll be ripping mine off soon.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Hyper glide sell them now. I got a pair and for the size they are good. But they create way to much drag in comparison to 1.1/3.0 feet on cloth. I'll be ripping mine off soon.


Well, hyperglide does not ship to my country :/
Btw, are their feet really that good? I've seen a lot of people saying good stuff about it..

I was thinking about this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Zowie-EC1-EC-eVo-EC2-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition-/111427911417?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item19f19efef9
Should I get the 0.28mm or the 0.6mm version?

I already bought some wmo feet with takasta, it's from that same brand btw. But you know, it probably wont feel the same as the original zowie feet.
And I'm afraid that it can scratch my mousepad as well. A long time ago I've used some low quality 1.1 feet on my old Zowie AM and it scratched my whole mousepad...


----------



## Wizerino

Just to be clear with RPG wizard...
i have EXTREMELY difficult time handling the mouse thats smaller than my hand.
anything smaller than some specific mouse like IMO 1.1a or such...its like escaping my hand, i don't wanna cramp my hand/fingers and use my energy in controlling it. you need to find.
I just received zowie ec1-a. The mouse fits me like a glove. Its unbelievably amazing. The side buttons are great too. I don't know about you guys but after you spend years of gaming using ie 3.0 and then imo 1.1a, anything else than those switches are great. And I have zero issues with the switches on zowie. On the contrary, they are grea too.
Everything that i expected to get from this mouse, i did.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> Well, hyperglide does not ship to my country :/
> Btw, are their feet really that good? I've seen a lot of people saying good stuff about it..
> 
> I was thinking about this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Zowie-EC1-EC-eVo-EC2-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition-/111427911417?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item19f19efef9
> Should I get the 0.28mm or the 0.6mm version?
> 
> I already bought some wmo feet with takasta, it's from that same brand btw. But you know, it probably wont feel the same as the original zowie feet.
> And I'm afraid that it can scratch my mousepad as well. A long time ago I've used some low quality 1.1 feet on my old Zowie AM and it scratched my whole mousepad...


Hypers are the best. But they are not really worth the extra IMO. If you want to ship them to me then send me a PM. Quite happy to ship them off to you once they arrive. (UK BTW)


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Hypers are the best. But they are not really worth the extra IMO. If you want to ship them to me then send me a PM. Quite happy to ship them off to you once they arrive. (UK BTW)


Thanks dude, I really appreciate it








However, it's not necessary. I ended up buying the hotline one with takasta, the competition 0.6mm edition.

But yea, the hyperglide is kinda expensive. I don't really feel like paying 14$ on a pair of mouse feet...


----------



## Sencha

No worries.


----------



## selka10

I used to use the SteelSeries Sensei. za12 should you do if you think ec2-a?


----------



## Sencha

Well the EC2 is a total different shape. I use to like sensei shape now use za11. What size is your p̶e̶n̶i̶s̶ hand?


----------



## Azmath

I have to agree with Sencha over here. EC2-A is a totaly new mouse with IME 3.0 Hyperglides. I bought an Artisan Hayate, glorious XXL and a zowie gt-f speed to pair it with. I bought the Hyperglides and returned to my old QcK Heavy, mouse moves so smooth with those skates. They totaly worth the money.


----------



## ZeBodscha

hey,

wanted to share my first impression with the ec2-a.

used an fk1 for quite a while and wanted to give the other shapes a try, since i always felt the fk1 was a little bit too flat in general, a touch too thin in the middle, and the huanos combined with the shell and the button latency didn't seem to be a perfect combination anyways (letting the poor zowie mousewheels aside). other than that i was pretty satisfied with my fk1.

previously tested the za11, but it was too bulky in the back for me. now i just got my ec2-a and i think it's a nice fit in my hand (19,x cm), although i initially feared it might be too small (i don't have the comparison to the ec1-a though). but due to the higher arch in the middle it is actually a real nice fit for my "claw/palm grip". what i immediately recognized was, that the mouse clicks were quite a bit louder than on my fk1... is this normal? the side buttons aren't too amazing imo, cause they are super easy to press, but they are decent enough, i guess.

don't know what to think about the illuminated mwheel yet. is it normal that the led of the lense is actually very "faint"? or does the lense work without any illumination and what i see on the bottom of my mouse, is just a reflection from the led of the mousewheel that travels through the mouse parts?

other than that i didn't really have the possibility to test the mouse in action yet, but i hope due to the slight improvements and differences with shell, switches, shape and mcu, it's hopefully turning out positively (and please let me get a decent mousewheel this time







). lifting the mouse feels quite effortless, weight is a bit higher than on the fk1, but it's not severe. i like the weight distribution on the fk1 and ec2-a the best. za11 seemed a bit "ass heavy".

gonna test it a couple of days now and then decide what to do with it. my first impression says: "definitely keep it"!







(but unfortunately i've been disappointed by zowie quite often in the past, that's why i tend to stay aware and careful with the hype here)


----------



## Thraxx

Guys, i have 18cm hands and bought a ec1-a . I have the doubt until this very moment, did a made a mistake? ec2-a was a better option for me?

i used deathadder for 6 years and i like it. I use claw grip but my palm kind of rest on the mouse.

edit: the mouse will arrive only in 1 week


----------



## axmadka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thraxx*
> 
> Guys, i have 18cm hands and bought a ec1-a . I have the doubt until this very moment, did a made a mistake? ec2-a was a better option for me?
> 
> i used deathadder for 6 years and i like it. I use claw grip but my palm kind of rest on the mouse.
> 
> edit: the mouse will arrive only in 1 week


It will fit as good as DA, or maybe better







No mistake was made, the EC2-A seems to be a bit smaller than DA ~ have both in front of me right now


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thraxx*
> 
> Guys, i have 18cm hands and bought a ec1-a . I have the doubt until this very moment, did a made a mistake? ec2-a was a better option for me?
> 
> i used deathadder for 6 years and i like it. I use claw grip but my palm kind of rest on the mouse.
> 
> edit: the mouse will arrive only in 1 week


If the da was a good fit the ec1 will be closest so you made the right choice


----------



## Wizerino

I have 19cm hands. ec1 fits like a glove.


----------



## Poopsticker

Anyone using a Puretrak Talent with the EC2-A? If so, does it track well on the pad? Currently have a standard qck, and thinking of upgrading to a Talent, maybe stealth.


----------



## zwacki

using a puretrak talent ec1-a and the mouse tracks flawless


----------



## b0z0

I haven't had any issues using the puretrak talent with my Ec2-a. I tried the puretrak talent skates for my Ec2-a. Literally the worse mouse skates I've used.


----------



## AnimalK

I have ~18cm hands I love my EC2-A more than any other mouse currently.

The thing is I think I would be just as happy with a EC1-A but I have yet to try one.


----------



## tech99

I'm a bit confused about about whether I should buy EC1-a or EC2-A.

My hand is about 19CM in length and 9CM wide. I have a hybrid grip. I can play consistently well with mouse which are a tad bigger than average sized mouse. Some of the mouse that I consider comfortable for me and have performed well in game in a consistent manner are, Rival, G500, Imperator, Sentinel Advance,Deathadder Black Edition. G502 is also one of the best mouse for me but unfortunately it's weight has become a hindrance for performing consistently well.

On the other hand, KPM is a mouse that I liked very much in terms of tracking and accuracy. But it was so small for me that I had to grip it awkwardly and ended up hurting my ring finger which caused a bit of pain in the joints for 3 days.

I first thought about getting the EC2-A as people commented that it's like a smaller DA. But when I compared the dimension to a KPM, it seemed to me it's smaller than or more or less equal to KPM. So should I go for the larger EC1-A or the smaller EC2-A? I would like to have access to all the side buttons without changing my grip which I can't do with Rival.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tech99*
> 
> I'm a bit confused about about whether I should buy EC1-a or EC2-A.
> 
> My hand is about 19CM in length and 9CM wide. I have a hybrid grip. I can play consistently well with mouse which are a tad bigger than average sized mouse. Some of the mouse that I consider comfortable for me and have performed well in game in a consistent manner are, Rival, G500, Imperator, Sentinel Advance,Deathadder Black Edition. G502 is also one of the best mouse for me but unfortunately it's weight has become a hindrance for performing consistently well.
> 
> On the other hand, KPM is a mouse that I liked very much in terms of tracking and accuracy. But it was so small for me that I had to grip it awkwardly and ended up hurting my ring finger which caused a bit of pain in the joints for 3 days.
> 
> I first thought about getting the EC2-A as people commented that it's like a smaller DA. But when I compared the dimension to a KPM, it seemed to me it's smaller than or more or less equal to KPM. So should I go for the larger EC1-A or the smaller EC2-A? I would like to have access to all the side buttons without changing my grip which I can't do with Rival.


I think you would be better with the EC1-A tbh.
My hand is ~17,5cm in length and the EC2-A feels just fine, not big but not small either.


----------



## Thraxx

Is there a Native DPI for ec1/2-a? Or anyone of the steps are equally good?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thraxx*
> 
> Is there a Native DPI for ec1/2-a? Or anyone of the steps are equally good?


All are good.


----------



## tech99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> I think you would be better with the EC1-A tbh.
> My hand is ~17,5cm in length and the EC2-A feels just fine, not big but not small either.


Thanks for the advice. Gonna get myself a EC1-A real soon. Will share my experience with it.


----------



## tech99

Finally got the shipment from USA. Would've got it last Saturday but the delivery inexplicably got delayed by the local courier (FedEx).

I was very apprehensive about the quality of this mouse as I've read so many posts here talking about problems with the mouse due to poor QC. As a result I was actually bracing myself for a broken mouse out of the box! But as of now, the mouse seems pretty OK, touch wood. No loose parts, no scrollwheel issues, no dragging against the mousepad problem. Let's see how does it hold up over the next few days. Loving it so far!


----------



## mitavreb

I just bought the EC1-A and just a day of use. To immediately have a good feel of the mouse, I jumped right straight in CS GO and played a couple of competitive games. So far so good.

I didn't notice the click latency that others have said existed. The shape is very comfortable for palm grip. The scroll wheel, it works. And the most surprising is that the sensor feels more raw than one in the Naos 7K. Hopefully these impressive first impressions will not change the more I use the mouse.


----------



## Kerl

funny how the only people who "notice" are the ones who have seen the graph.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kerl*
> 
> funny how the only people who "notice" are the ones who have seen the graph.


Easy to notice using railgun in Quake, at least on older models. Don't have a new one personally but if it is halved then its a massive improvement.


----------



## Wizerino

it wont.
and please everyone for future reference, dont mention click latency talking about zowie.
leave that **** in the past.
the mouse is ******* flawless.


----------



## Kerl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Easy to notice using railgun in Quake, at least on older models. Don't have a new one personally but if it is halved then its a massive improvement.


can you link me to a thread prior to the click latency chart that complains about click latency? im genuinely curious


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wizerino*
> 
> it wont.
> and please everyone for future reference, dont mention click latency talking about zowie.
> leave that **** in the past.
> the mouse is ******* flawless.


You tell them hoes how it is bruh. Lol


----------



## Wizerino

ya brah


----------



## solz

Comming from a Steelseries Rival i love the build quality and shape of the Zowie EC1-A, but i hate that the lift-off distance.

Which one of the options should i use to get the Lift-off distance of the Steelseries Rival?
Quote:


> If you want to change the lift-off distance, please one of the following methods:
> 
> If you feel the lift-off distance is too low:
> 
> Please disconnect the mouse and hold down M4 + M1 + M2 and then connect the mouse through USB
> 
> If you feel the lift-off distance is too high:
> 
> Please disconnect the mouse, hold down M4 + M1 and then connect the mouse through USB
> 
> If you want to back to standard setting !
> 
> Please disconnect the mouse, hold down M5 + M1 and then connect the mouse through USB
> 
> If you are using ZOWIE SWIFT
> 
> Please disconnect the mouse, hold down M4 + M2 and then connect the mouse through USB


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solz*
> 
> Comming from a Steelseries Rival i love the build quality and shape of the Zowie EC1-A, but i hate that the lift-off distance.
> 
> Which one of the options should i use to get the Lift-off distance of the Steelseries Rival?


Why don't you try them? There is no such thing as a fixed lift off distance for every infinite combinations of mouse mats out there.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kerl*
> 
> can you link me to a thread prior to the click latency chart that complains about click latency? im genuinely curious


Not sure if there's a thread prior to. Haven't been here too long. I'm sure it's mentioned somewhere if not here.

Personally, I noticed something was off when I owned the Evo version and the TF2 Direct Hits were off mark. I never said anything of it once I found out after a mid game mouse swap. Just assumed it was me or the notoriously stiff shells.


----------



## Pa12a

I ordered one EC2-A this evening, let's see how it does compared to a Rival and Deathadder, I actually have big hopes about this mouse

If anyone can tell me what the sensor is like compared to an EC2 eVo, please do so as I actually really liked Zowie's implementation of the 3090 sensor


----------



## mitavreb

I wanna comment on the encircled part in the picture. I'm finding this as a very minor design flaw. It's a little annoying because this protrusion sticks out too much and digs into the round part of my palm, and it makes me feel that I can't palm this mouse comfortably. This isn't a deal breaker because I just have to tilt my hand a little bit to the right side so that this protrusion doesn't get in the way, but I wish that Zowie shaved off 1-2 mm on this part of the mouse.


----------



## frewp

how's the EC2-A for a claw grip? how about finger tip (hybrid)?
i have an FK1 and the mouse skates have finally been vaporized pretty much, instead of buying new skates I was thinking of trying out a new mouse, and I'm a Zowie fanboy








plus EC2-A has less click latency I heard, always a plus.


----------



## jung1e

Noticed that SS and Zowie tend to give alot of silver versions of mice to the players.

Snax -> Silver FK2 I posted a while back, Flamie has Silver Rival, and Taz/Neo both have Silver w/ black side EC1/EC2s, anyone know if general public will get a chance to buy these silver versions?


----------



## thejoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jung1e*
> 
> Noticed that SS and Zowie tend to give alot of silver versions of mice to the players.
> 
> Snax -> Silver FK2 I posted a while back, Flamie has Silver Rival, and Taz/Neo both have Silver w/ black side EC1/EC2s, anyone know if general public will get a chance to buy these silver versions?


Exacly my thought, what the hell is this silver Ec2


----------



## Maximillion

I doubt Zowie will be releasing any special colors. Their mindset seems to be uniformity now, which isn't necessarily bad. I'm pretty sure SS will be releasing the Fade colorway and possibly others in the near future, though.


----------



## detto87

Zowie eradicated the glossy versions though in fact many pro players prefer a glossy shell.

And why they do this, if they promote their company's mentality as follows?
"If we can develop products that will increase a gamers performance by just 1%, we will do it."

Well, my guess is simply aesthetics and profit.
Like everybody else.


----------



## Axaion

Im fairly sure most pros would prefer the combination the IME 3.0 has

"glossy" top and coated sides is just superior in every way to full coated

Offer that and full glossy would be way better than full coated or full glossy.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Zowie eradicated the glossy versions though in fact many pro players prefer a glossy shell.
> 
> And why they do this, if they promote their company's mentality as follows?
> "If we can develop products that will increase a gamers performance by just 1%, we will do it."
> 
> Well, my guess is simply aesthetics and profit.
> Like everybody else.


Companies make money from consumers, not "pros". Most pros have their mouse (or other peripherals) modded anyways, so what they are given doesn't even mean jack other than advertising e-peen.


----------



## IAMSTERDAM

ec1-a glossy versions better for me...


----------



## frewp

if you guys shake your mouse do you feel the mousewheel sorta moving? or is mine just loose? because then ill have to return : (

nvm, for some reason the issue has gone away. maybe because I started pressing mouse3 and it put it in place orsomething idk.


----------



## rivage

Hi everyone,

Might be another random question but what's the current best mousepad for EC1/2-A? I have a Goliathus speed (new one) but I don't know whether colored mousepads are bad for Zowie.


----------



## frewp

colored pads do not affect the sensors of the EC1/2-A.
Right now I'm using the Zowie G-SR which is colored and it works flawless, and it's actually my favorite pad to date now.

so yeah, use whatever pad you like.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frewp*
> 
> colored pads do not affect the sensors of the EC1/2-A.
> Right now I'm using the Zowie G-SR which is colored and it works flawless, and it's actually my favorite pad to date now.
> 
> so yeah, use whatever pad you like.


Alright gotit, thank's for replying!


----------



## b0z0

I'm currently using the Puretrak Talent with my Ec2-a without any issues.


----------



## detto87

Theoretically a black irregular grainy plastic pad is best for LED sensors. At least that's what a Logitech engineer explained.

The Zowie PTFX and Artisan Hien MID Black would be good cloth alternatives.

Seeing that the jittery Abyssus from Ino has no jitter on the PTFX there might be some truth behind that.


----------



## thejoy

The problem with Zowie is that they used to say "We're company that give gamers a choice, two different coatings, two different size". Now it's just about the size...


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thejoy*
> 
> The problem with Zowie is that they used to say "We're company that give gamers a choice, two different coatings, two different size". Now it's just about the size...


Sounds like a woman...PA DUN TSSSS


----------



## Xicu

I'm having problems with the mouse wheel, when I press the button it gets stuck. Is there any way to fix this ?


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thejoy*
> 
> The problem with Zowie is that they used to say "We're company that give gamers a choice, two different coatings, two different size". Now it's just about the size...


You answered your own complaint. "Used to".

There used to be a more civilized society and also a more content consumer base where people won't complain about every single little thing.

Yeah, used to.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> You answered your own complaint. "Used to".
> 
> There used to be a more civilized society and also a more content consumer base where people won't complain about every single little thing.
> 
> Yeah, used to.


Use to be? When? In the 50's?? Zowie was around in what 08? People have always complained about every single little thing, especially since the internet & forums were introduced. The complaints were around way before zowie & they came during. So you couldn't be more wrong.

People are picky, plain & simple. It will not change. This time you speak of is an imagination only.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Use to be? When? In the 50's?? Zowie was around in what 08? People have always complained about every single little thing, especially since the internet & forums were introduced. The complaints were around way before zowie & they came during. So you couldn't be more wrong.
> 
> People are picky, plain & simple. It will not change. *This time you speak of is an imagination only*.


Lol.

O.kay.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Use to be? When? In the 50's?? Zowie was around in what 08?


*Summer 2010, actually back then there wasnt anything to complain about Zowie, but then again, times were different 5 years ago.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> You answered your own complaint. "Used to".
> 
> There used to be a more civilized society and also a more content consumer base where people won't complain about every single little thing.
> 
> Yeah, used to.


There is a proper way to do it and a right place for complaints. People need to stop taking complaints personally and attacking others for their opinion.
Criticism is left where it's due - to push manufacturers to improve things. This is a good thing. No need to get worked up about things. If someone bothers you, deal with it.
Im so sick and tired of this attitude where people are attacking others for expressing their opinion and voicing concerns. A la the zowie latency topic. There were inet trolls who were creating mess and attacking people who complained, like " oh its in your head, you are insane, the mice are fine " etc. Of course excessive complaining and whining is annoying, but there is a time and place for it. Also, not everything needs to be replied and commented on.

If you can't debate or don't understand the idea of forums then don't bother posting at all. People should chill their tits. This is not against you personally, but for everyone + against this point of view. Please don't feel attacked, it is just for all of those who can't handle it.


----------



## Jabberw0ck

I really want a need a new mouse and the EC2-A seems like a good fit but I have a few questions:


How loud are the clicks compared to say... a Deathadder Chroma?
The shell is more like a Deathadder than a Rival right? I absolutely hate the feeling of the rubberized coating and I'm not familiar enough with mice to tell with all the jargon and such.
My hand is 20 cm long and around 11 cm wide. Would the EC1-A fit me better? I like resting the right side of my palm on the map but mostly use my arm to move the mouse.
*This is my biggest concern. How will the side-buttons hold up with a lot of use? I heard a lot of mixed reviews of EC2-A side buttons and since I plan on playing Diablo for a bit I intend on spamming them quite often.*
The shell is more like a Deathadder than a Rival right? I absolutely hate the feeling of the rubberized coating and I'm not familiar enough with mice to tell with all the jargon and such.
Will the mouse handle the wear and tear of being in a pouch in a bag a lot of the time? I have to move around a lot with my laptop and the mouse will be moving with me. This is primarily the reason I'm looking at this mouse over the Chroma because I don't trust Razer product durability. You guys can prove me wrong though.

Sorry I know these questions are often asked but I can't precisely find the answers I want for some of them. I guess final two side questions would be should I seriously consider a proteus core? Because the ones on display in stores have really rough side buttons that seem to go stiff with use or should I wait for finalmouse 2015 to come out in the US again?


----------



## frewp

Depends on your grip really, if you palm I would go EC1-A since 20cm is pretty long







I use 18.5cm and I can palm the EC2-A and it fits really well, but I have 8cm wide hands and I don't know how much room you'll have for your ring and pinky finger to rest without hurting. Some people palm their mice farther away from their wrist so it really depends

I don't own a Deathadder anymore and it's been years so I couldn't tell you the difference between the Rival and the Deathadder for the coating, but it's similar to the Rival but just a little bit rougher. Feels really similar though.

Can't answer the side button questions since I've owned the mouse for like a week.

My FK1 went through a lot of handle and wear without any issues, I have no doubt the EC2-A can handle it just fine. A huge chunk of professional CS players use these Mice with no issues.

My brothers Rival is much less quiet click wise because of the EC2-A's Huano's. The clicks are softer and less quiet than the FK1, but still at least double the sound of the Rival.


----------



## jung1e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jabberw0ck*
> 
> I really want a need a new mouse and the EC2-A seems like a good fit but I have a few questions:
> 
> 
> How loud are the clicks compared to say... a Deathadder Chroma?
> The shell is more like a Deathadder than a Rival right? I absolutely hate the feeling of the rubberized coating and I'm not familiar enough with mice to tell with all the jargon and such.
> My hand is 20 cm long and around 11 cm wide. Would the EC1-A fit me better? I like resting the right side of my palm on the map but mostly use my arm to move the mouse.
> *This is my biggest concern. How will the side-buttons hold up with a lot of use? I heard a lot of mixed reviews of EC2-A side buttons and since I plan on playing Diablo for a bit I intend on spamming them quite often.*
> The shell is more like a Deathadder than a Rival right? I absolutely hate the feeling of the rubberized coating and I'm not familiar enough with mice to tell with all the jargon and such.
> Will the mouse handle the wear and tear of being in a pouch in a bag a lot of the time? I have to move around a lot with my laptop and the mouse will be moving with me. This is primarily the reason I'm looking at this mouse over the Chroma because I don't trust Razer product durability. You guys can prove me wrong though.


I own both so I'll try my best to answer your questions

-The huanos are definitely sticker and have a louder tactile click. The clicks on the EC2 feel better on the EC2 than the EC1 imo.
-The shell resembles more like the DA yes, but closest to the IME3.0 if you've ever tried that in terms of shape. In terms of coating, it is a slight coarse plastic, but close to being regular smooth plastic, not nearly as textured as the DA, so it should be fine.
- My hands are 18-18.5cm and I still prefer the EC1 over the EC2 because of the width. I prefer the fatter hump on the back, just so my hand seems more relaxed over long periods of usage, although i do like the weight of the EC2 more. I would say 19cm and above hands should go with the EC1 and since youre 20cm, definitely try the EC1 first.
- As far as side buttons go, I use my side buttons for push to talk constantly and mine have held up just fine. If anything I had the scrollwheel bug after 1 week of use, but then somehow the problem disappeared after using the mouse more.
- I commute a couple times a month from college back home and I usually take my peripherals with me, and the mouse has been fine, just throwing it in a trackbag.


----------



## Jabberw0ck

Thanks a lot to both of you. I ordered an EC1-A and it should be coming in a few days. At sixty bucks I could buy that or the Deathadder and like I said, I try to avoid Razer.


----------



## Dhebeiq49464

fd


----------



## frewp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuartexBlooper*
> 
> I currently use the Zowie FK 2013 with a fingertip grip, but the MMB and RMB are double clicking, so I was thinking of replacing it with a right-handed mouse like the EC2-A (it'd be my first right-handed mouse).
> 
> Choosing a new mouse is difficult because I fixate on the negatives, such as scroll wheel and sidebutton issues on the EC2-A.


I've had no issues with the scroll wheel.
I had an FK1 (which is different than the FK 2013 scroll wheel wise I'm pretty sure) and that one was just too stiff and small, making bhopping uncomfortable.
but yeah, FK1's side buttons are better to click but the location is annoying for me (mainly because the mouse is so low). The EC2-A is taller, making the buttons in a better spot for me, my thumb isn't constantly on top of the buttons anymore, which is what I prefer. They just feel way easier to click and a little loose if that makes sense but I haven't had any issues using them.


----------



## Pa12a

I didn't have any problems with my scroll wheel either, I can scroll down and then still scroll up one notch, which was the problem I guess?
The side buttons were weird at first, thought I broke them the first time I pressed them because I never had any mice with so light to press side buttons, lol.


----------



## mitavreb

Not a problem but scrolling down on my EC1-A feels and sounds tighter than scrolling up. It's like a cogwheel that needs to be oiled up.


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> Not a problem but scrolling down on my EC1-A feels and sounds tighter than scrolling up. It's like a cogwheel that needs to be oiled up.


Mmh, looks like I'm a lucky guy cause I haven't had problems with anything. Yet. Yet because I just had this mouse for like a week only.


----------



## shatterboxd3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jabberw0ck*
> 
> I really want a need a new mouse and the EC2-A seems like a good fit but I have a few questions:
> 
> 
> How loud are the clicks compared to say... a Deathadder Chroma? *louder, stiffer, better feeling*
> The shell is more like a Deathadder than a Rival right? I absolutely hate the feeling of the rubberized coating and I'm not familiar enough with mice to tell with all the jargon and such. *Its coating is more like the deathadder yeah. No rubber side grips like either of them though*
> My hand is 20 cm long and around 11 cm wide. Would the EC1-A fit me better? I like resting the right side of my palm on the map but mostly use my arm to move the mouse. *EC1 > EC2 for your hand size, which is about the same as mine*
> *This is my biggest concern. How will the side-buttons hold up with a lot of use? I heard a lot of mixed reviews of EC2-A side buttons and since I plan on playing Diablo for a bit I intend on spamming them quite often.* *They're the same switches, but there is more play in them. Feels a little flimsy but i doubt there will be any issue*
> The shell is more like a Deathadder than a Rival right? I absolutely hate the feeling of the rubberized coating and I'm not familiar enough with mice to tell with all the jargon and such.
> Will the mouse handle the wear and tear of being in a pouch in a bag a lot of the time? I have to move around a lot with my laptop and the mouse will be moving with me. This is primarily the reason I'm looking at this mouse over the Chroma because I don't trust Razer product durability. You guys can prove me wrong though. *Any mouse that you unplug, wrap up, and bang around while transporting has the potential for fault earlier*
> 
> Sorry I know these questions are often asked but I can't precisely find the answers I want for some of them. I guess final two side questions would be should I seriously consider a proteus core? Because the ones on display in stores have really rough side buttons that seem to go stiff with use or should I wait for finalmouse 2015 to come out in the US again?


100% go with the EC1-A over EC2. Same size hands as you and I love my new EC1 compared to the EC2 I could never get comfortable with.


----------



## mksteez

Is there a fix for the side buttons? They are too mushy. I returned mine the day i got it. Might get an EC2-A again if I can do a simple mod to fix it


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mksteez*
> 
> Is there a fix for the side buttons? They are too mushy. I returned mine the day i got it. Might get an EC2-A again if I can do a simple mod to fix it


It's designed to be mushy and quick, like the Razer DA. So nothing is broken about it.


----------



## Oneyed

My last mouse was g500.

What about click latency compared with my old mouse?
Im interested on ec1-a.
21 cm long hands. Need a durable mouse


----------



## MeHigh

Hi guys, tomorrow I should receive my EC2-A.

So I was wondering how does your grip look on this baby? I've got 19cm hands, am I able to kinda claw that thing? Or straight up palm? Some pics would be highly appreciated.

Thanks!


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeHigh*
> 
> Hi guys, tomorrow I should receive my EC2-A.
> 
> So I was wondering how does your grip look on this baby? I've got 19cm hands, am I able to kinda claw that thing? Or straight up palm? Some pics would be highly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks!






There you go. I have a sort of claw-y grip on my mice, 17cm long 10cm wide and this fits like a glove for me... Palm grip is also really good in comparison to other mice I had, but irrelevant for me because I HATE palming.

It was a B to get used to (Had a Rival, DA, etc. before but I wanted something similar shaped with smaller size), my muscle memory was in the bin. But now that I'm used to it, I don't really want to go back to anything else that I have besides my G303/FK 2013.


----------



## MeHigh

Thanks a lot!

I am also coming from the Rival, DA, G402 and stuff like that, so after a bit of getting used to I hope I'll like this mouse.
The main problem will be the way I move the mouse I guess. I am used to resting my arm on the desk and moving the mouse using my wrist, but everywhere I look, all my friends included, play at a waay lower sens than me and move their whole arm when moving the mouse. Eeww. I have to try that with the EC2-A.

Thanks again for the pics!


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeHigh*
> 
> Thanks a lot!
> 
> The main problem will be the way I move the mouse I guess. I am used to resting my arm on the desk and moving the mouse using my wrist, but everywhere I look, all my friends included, play at a waay lower sens than me and move their whole arm when moving the mouse. Eeww. I have to try that with the EC2-A.


Don't worry too much about that, I almost use wrist only, I only use arm to flick 180° and follow angles. Imagine how strenx played with low sensitivity, that's roughly how I aim in CS and QL, though I have 38.3cm/360. Moving my wrist in unusual ways...


----------



## Scrimstar

I have 19x9 cm hands. I really like my Avior 7000's left side, but the right buttons get annoying. So im looking at the Zowie ZA11 and EC1-A to purchase, I was wondering how do each compare? I heard buttons are lighter on the EC1-A, but I saw a graph where the input is slower[albeit a questionable source] .


----------



## ThomasMW

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> I have 19x9 cm hands. I really like my Avior 7000's left side, but the right buttons get annoying. So im looking at the Zowie ZA11 and EC1-A to purchase, I was wondering how do each compare? I heard buttons are lighter on the EC1-A, but I saw a graph where the input is slower[albeit a questionable source] .


What's your grip style?


----------



## Scrimstar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThomasMW*
> 
> What's your grip style?


I palm and kinda claw with my fingers. also squeeze/grip my mouse more than typical


----------



## Jaggar

Far as i can tell, only ebay has this mouse for around $60. Does zowie recognize ebay as a vendor if I run into any warranty issues?


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> 
> 
> but I wish that Zowie shaved off 1-2 mm on this part of the mouse.


do it yourself?

most recently i've done this on my G302. makes a huge difference in comfort.


----------



## NicoNicoNii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jaggar*
> 
> Far as i can tell, only ebay has this mouse for around $60. Does zowie recognize ebay as a vendor if I run into any warranty issues?


I just bought one from Superbiiz for $60


----------



## globalek

Could someone tell me which mouse is bigger in hand ec1-a or roccat kone xtd? I'm looking for a good palm grip mouse. My hand is 19cm. Xtd is the biggest mouse I can comfortably use my grip on.


----------



## maxvons

Just got the EC1-A a few days ago after using the EC1 eVo CL as my main for almost a year. The sensor and everything felt really good, but the clicks, there's something srsly wrong with them compared to my old one. The clicks on my old EC1 eVo CL feel so much crisper that it's ridiculous. Anyone here who's used the old and new EC1 who can compare the clicks. Do you feel like the new one has mushier clicks too?


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *globalek*
> 
> Could someone tell me which mouse is bigger in hand ec1-a or roccat kone xtd? I'm looking for a good palm grip mouse. My hand is 19cm. Xtd is the biggest mouse I can comfortably use my grip on.


The Kone XTD is huge in hand compared to the EC1. Much do to the width of the XTD, but it's also longer, at least it feels longer. I strongly prefer the EC1 shape, and I'm a strict palm gripper like you with same sized hands.


----------



## globalek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> The Kone XTD is huge in hand compared to the EC1. Much do to the width of the XTD, but it's also longer, at least it feels longer. I strongly prefer the EC1 shape, and I'm a strict palm gripper like you with same sized hands.


That's great. Thanks.


----------



## Scrimstar

does your palm drag on your pad with the ec1-a? or is it sitting comfortably? is this mouse easy to lift, and how is the wheel. my hands are19x9


----------



## Snakesoul

Hi everyone,

So I've been using the ec1-a,for a couple of months now and it's one of the most comfortable mouse I used for a long time, but I've been looking at some issues.
When I'm playing cs source or cs go, there seems to be some kind of delay and bullets don't register, or to get a kill most of the times it registers a lot of hits (ex. 79 damage 3 hits).. It only happens with this mouse.
Also my sensitivity no matter what I do, it looks like sometimes it feels slower when I swipe a bit faster.
Does anyone know why the mouse behaves like this? Is it because of the thin skates, it doesn't track like it should?
Compared to my old g400,i get a faster response when shooting/hitting...
I have all the acceleration features disabled on win7..
Any help would be appreciated


----------



## edward236

My ec2-A (S / N: EC2a1X1506 ...) have the same situation (Cloth Mouse Pad Mode)
I found that using (Plastic Mouse Pad Mode) reduces delay
I can see your test? (MOUSETESTER)


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *globalek*
> 
> That's great. Thanks.


Take note of the height for both mice. I always believe that a good palm grip mouse must have height to support the palm. The EC1-A is 43mm. I'm not sure about the XTD, I think it is 40mm. Anything lower than 42mm for me is uncomfortable to palm. 19cm also is my hand size.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> does your palm drag on your pad with the ec1-a? or is it sitting comfortably? is this mouse easy to lift, and how is the wheel. my hands are19x9


My palm sits comfortably on the mouse. Because this mouse is quite tall I have less of my wrist touching the mouse pad which I prefer.

Yes, it is easy to lift. It has quite a pointy angle at the side of the right mouse button. This is where I place my ring finger to lift the mouse. The only issue I could find is the texture of the mouse can be too slippery at times but once there's moisture on the hand it becomes easier to lift.

The mouse wheel steps aren't as defined compared to others. I would say like small and short steps. But it works, no problems for me.


----------



## thejoy

Hello,

I use the scroll down button to jump in game. Sometimes, it jumps without me touching the wheel. I noticed that everytime it happens, I push the left click button (So I jump and shoot). I own 2 Ec2-A and they both have this problem.

Anything I can do ?

I didn't have this problem with my previous Ec2 (white version).


----------



## 8thwonderuk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thejoy*
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I use the scroll down button to jump in game. Sometimes, it jumps without me touching the wheel. I noticed that everytime it happens, I push the left click button (So I jump and shoot). I own 2 Ec2-A and they both have this problem.
> 
> Anything I can do ?
> 
> I didn't have this problem with my previous Ec2 (white version).


I have this same problem. It's seems it's just a rubbish scroll wheel. You scroll it. It doesn't register, but it's on the edge and registers at the slightest tap. I opened up the mouse to see if there's any obvious fix but I think it's just bad design in the molding. Too much movement in the wheel causing it to miss the switch initially. It's such a shame because I thought I'd finally found the perfect mouse. Oh well, might give the new Mionix a go.


----------



## thejoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *8thwonderuk*
> 
> I have this same problem. It's seems it's just a rubbish scroll wheel. You scroll it. It doesn't register, but it's on the edge and registers at the slightest tap. I opened up the mouse to see if there's any obvious fix but I think it's just bad design in the molding. Too much movement in the wheel causing it to miss the switch initially. It's such a shame because I thought I'd finally found the perfect mouse. Oh well, might give the new Mionix a go.


Damn...does the left click triggers the bug for you aswell ? That's what I don't understand.


----------



## hasukka

Anyone having problems with the glide? My Zowie glides like **** at least on my QCK heavy mousepad. Most of my other mice glide very well, even the FK1 I had. The mousefeet on the EC2-A just seem rubbish, too big I assume.

Has anyone tried putting some MS IE 3.0 skates on the Zowie EC2-A or any other skates to improve the glide?


----------



## Scrimstar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Anyone having problems with the glide? My Zowie glides like **** at least on my QCK heavy mousepad. Most of my other mice glide very well, even the FK1 I had. The mousefeet on the EC2-A just seem rubbish, too big I assume.
> 
> Has anyone tried putting some MS IE 3.0 skates on the Zowie EC2-A or any other skates to improve the glide?


u can try takasta\s feet idk which ones fit tho


----------



## Snakesoul

Anyone using a 144hz monitor feel some kind of delay when using ec1-a? I haven't tried yet to lower my monitor hz, but maybe it's the cause of the delay feeling?
I really liked the mouse shape, main buttons and sensor, but when playing it feels awkward... Some kind of delay and also much more difficult to kill anyone...
Any suggestions?
Edit: also just remembered, is there any problem connecting to a usb 3.0?


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Anyone using a 144hz monitor feel some kind of delay when using ec1-a? I haven't tried yet to lower my monitor hz, but maybe it's the cause of the delay feeling?
> I really liked the mouse shape, main buttons and sensor, but when playing it feels awkward... Some kind of delay and also much more difficult to kill anyone...
> Any suggestions?
> Edit: also just remembered, is there any problem connecting to a usb 3.0?


On a 120hz monitor, no input delay for me. Don't have a 144hz, so can't confirm that for you.
As for USB 3.0, err... have the mouse connected to 2.0. Though I can't imagine there being a problem, compatibility wise that is.


----------



## Snakesoul

Is there any more thoughts about it? Any idea why I have this delay?


----------



## frewp

I use an EC2-A and a 144hz with no problems with delay, using a 3.0 USB port that's connected directly to my motherboard.


----------



## mitavreb

Could be your graphics card driver that's causing the input lag.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> Could be your graphics card driver that's causing the input lag.


This. This is one of the things I've been thinking is causing problems... When I used Nvidia, there was a option to prevent render frames, now I'm using amd, and there's no option... Is there a way to fix it/turn around?
Is this the problem you're talking about? Is there a solution?


----------



## NicoNicoNii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> This. This is one of the things I've been thinking is causing problems... When I used Nvidia, there was a option to prevent render frames, now I'm using amd, and there's no option... Is there a way to fix it/turn around?
> Is this the problem you're talking about? Is there a solution?


Did you check this out? It may help.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/3f1iym/new_amd_catalyst_driver_reduces_input_lag_in_csgo/


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NicoNicoNii*
> 
> Did you check this out? It may help.
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/3f1iym/new_amd_catalyst_driver_reduces_input_lag_in_csgo/


Thanks for the input Nico, but i have that version already, one thing i saw was the suported resolutions, and there's no mention on 144hz, only 120hz, maybe was this causing the issue. Got to try with 120hz, i'll report later


----------



## hasukka

I thought the new generation Zowie mice had some sensor upgrading done so they would track well at multicolored mousepads, however I am having troubles with QPAD CT sometimes. I still play with the pad, because my aim is so much better with it than with a QCK for example. I can easily play three games of CS:GO without having any problems, however I have to move my mouse at the "fully black" spots of the mousepad only.

Any ideas on suitable mousepads I could buy that have a surface like the QPAD ct, but are black or at least have only one color?


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> I thought the new generation Zowie mice had some sensor upgrading done so they would track well at multicolored mousepads, however I am having troubles with QPAD CT sometimes. I still play with the pad, because my aim is so much better with it than with a QCK for example. I can easily play three games of CS:GO without having any problems, however I have to move my mouse at the "fully black" spots of the mousepad only.
> 
> Any ideas on suitable mousepads I could buy that have a surface like the QPAD ct, but are black or at least have only one color?


Haven't used a CT but do you want something that's faster or slower than your QcK?


----------



## hasukka

Much faster. CT is a hyprid pad.


----------



## SoFGR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> I thought the new generation Zowie mice had some sensor upgrading done so they would track well at multicolored mousepads, however I am having troubles with QPAD CT sometimes. I still play with the pad, because my aim is so much better with it than with a QCK for example. I can easily play three games of CS:GO without having any problems, however I have to move my mouse at the "fully black" spots of the mousepad only.
> 
> Any ideas on suitable mousepads I could buy that have a surface like the QPAD ct, but are black or at least have only one color?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> There are methods to adjust LOD on the FK1 similar to how you change the polling rate on it.
> 
> The standard LOD out of the box is adjusted for cloth pads to be around 1.5 - 1.8 mm. However this would mean a higher LOD on a plastic pad (2.2 - 2.4 mm). To enable "plastic mouse pad mode" you have to hold Button 4 and Button 2 (back button on the side and right mouse button) while plugging the FK1 in. This causes the LOD to be around 1.5 - 1.8 mm on a plastic mouse pad (and around 1 mm on a cloth mouse pad)
> 
> To switch back to "cloth mouse pad mode" you have to plug it in while holding Button 4 and Button 1 (back button on the side and left mouse button).
> 
> Now there is also the so called "original mode". This sets the LOD to be on a standard level and therefore should optimize the mouse compatibility for players with special material mousepads. It will have higher LOD than all other settings. So this is useful for those players who prefer a higher LOD (looking at you Dontspamme). You get the "original mode" by holding Button 4, 1 and 2 at the same time while plugging the FK1 in.
> 
> After setting the LOD once you don't have to set it again every time you plug in the mouse, similar to the polling rate. I think it's very nice that Zowie implemented a way to adjust LOD with the FK1 without software. You might not be able to finetune, but I think "low" and "high" LOD should be fine for most players anyway.
> 
> My experience with the modes:
> 
> Cloth mode on Qck+: 1 CD
> Plastic mode on Qck+: did not track at 1 CD hight
> Original mode: 2 CD
> 
> Only with original mode would the FK track on white paper.


----------



## hasukka

Yeah I tried with alll the LOD settings. Every single one had problems with the mousecursor just stopping sometimes. Hard pad mode seems to work best tho.


----------



## t00t

What's the angle of the sensor like on the EC1-A / EC2-A?

I found that I had to hold the Steelseries Rival slightly angled inwards towards my keyboard due to its sensor angle - Is the EC1-A like that or more of a 'straight' angle like on an FK1 (for example)?


----------



## etplayer

Has anyone reviewed these mice yet? The EC1-A is looking like a good choice for me, would be interesting to see some data on click latency and how stiff the buttons / wheel are in comparison to the FK1(+).

My wish list from zowie is to reduce click latency and maybe do some more improvements to polling rates and add 250Hz, would be perfect


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etplayer*
> 
> Has anyone reviewed these mice yet? The EC1-A is looking like a good choice for me, would be interesting to see some data on click latency and how stiff the buttons / wheel are in comparison to the FK1(+).
> 
> My wish list from zowie is to reduce click latency and maybe do some more improvements to polling rates and add 250Hz, would be perfect


There is a review up somewhere here. Zowie already did something to get a better click latency. It's in all Zowie mice that have been manufactured after abouts the release of the Zowie ECx-A models. The buttons are much easier to press in EC1-A than they are in the FK1 I would say. Can't say how the wheel feels compared to FK though, I have no recollection how the FK1 wheel was. I just remember the buttons were way too stiff for my liking.


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> There is a review up somewhere here. Zowie already did something to get a better click latency. It's in all Zowie mice that have been manufactured after abouts the release of the Zowie ECx-A models. The buttons are much easier to press in EC1-A than they are in the FK1 I would say. Can't say how the wheel feels compared to FK though, I have no recollection how the FK1 wheel was. I just remember the buttons were way too stiff for my liking.


Good to hear they've updated the lot. Original FK was a bit slow for spamming the clicks, FK1 I have no issues, personally would want buttons on the side tougher to press by accident, but that's just me. I guess I'll stick with the FK1 as I believe the side buttons are the red huano version, FK original wheel was a very grainy wheel difficult to scroll too far, I loved it once I got used to it, might try switching the wheels some time if it's possible.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> There is a review up somewhere here. Zowie already did something to get a better click latency. It's in all Zowie mice that have been manufactured after abouts the release of the Zowie ECx-A models.


Just to be clear, Zowie improved their click latency but it's still around 9ms slower than what's possible. Older models could easily have this improvement as well as future improvements with a firmware update but Zowie thinks you should go buy a new mouse each time instead.

Such a sad situation.


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Just to be clear, Zowie improved their click latency but it's still around 9ms slower than what's possible. Older models could easily have this improvement as well as future improvements but Zowie thinks you should go buy a new mouse each time. Such a sad situation.


I agree on that, but I more or less instantly bought an FK1 so I guess I can't complain too much. The perfect mouse for me would be the FK1 but in EC1-A ergonmic style shape it seems to have with fk1 style side buttons raised up a little, better coating to stop perspiration (fk1 coating or close enough), tough wheel like the FK, and some more performance updates again with the polling rates. It's good to see they are using the FK1 sensor/performance in other shells though, if they continue this way I'll probably cross most of that off the list with one purchase, but I'll definately need more than just better click latency and the ergonomic shell to upgrade.


----------



## danielhowk

Was thinking of buying the Zowie EC-1a as is the closest to the Razer death adder
how is this mouse in comparison of the New Mionix Mouse - Castor ?


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> There is a review up somewhere here. Zowie already did something to get a better click latency. It's in all Zowie mice that have been manufactured after abouts the release of the Zowie ECx-A models. The buttons are much easier to press in EC1-A than they are in the FK1 I would say. Can't say how the wheel feels compared to FK though, I have no recollection how the FK1 wheel was. I just remember the buttons were way too stiff for my liking.


Speaking of, you say the click latency is fixed only in releases later than ECx-A? I knew they'd done something with the ZA series and (maybe?) the FK2.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etplayer*
> 
> Speaking of, you say the click latency is fixed only in releases later than ECx-A? I knew they'd done something with the ZA series and (maybe?) the FK2.


Pretty sure the "click latency fix" was first introduced in the ECx-A series and after that they implemented it on all their mice. ZA series has the same click latency as FK1 these days afaik.


----------



## Snakesoul

Speaking of click latency, I turned my monitor to 120hz and still the same, there wasn't any improvement at all... Does anyone with an zowie ec1 a have click latency? Maybe I got an faulty unit... I see so many people talking how great zowie are, that I'm starting to think is my unit having issues...
I prefer to use g400 than zowie, because it's much more accurate when clicking... Rather prefer zowie on ergonomic design...


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *danielhowk*
> 
> Was thinking of buying the Zowie EC-1a as is the closest to the Razer death adder
> how is this mouse in comparison of the New Mionix Mouse - Castor ?


Get the EC1 if coming from DA and looking at something of close shape.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Speaking of click latency, I turned my monitor to 120hz and still the same, there wasn't any improvement at all... Does anyone with an zowie ec1 a have click latency? Maybe I got an faulty unit... I see so many people talking how great zowie are, that I'm starting to think is my unit having issues...
> I prefer to use g400 than zowie, because it's much more accurate when clicking... Rather prefer zowie on ergonomic design...


From what I read, Zowie reduced the debounce in half. Instead of ~16ms it's ~8ms. That is a slight improvement only a few people will discern in-game. When it comes to online reaction time tests, I doubt you will be consistent enough to notice a 8ms difference. You would probably get faster reaction times overall by modifying the shell.


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> From what I read, Zowie reduced the debounce in half. Instead of ~16ms it's ~8ms. That is a slight improvement only a few people will discern in-game. When it comes to online reaction time tests, I doubt you will be consistent enough to notice a 8ms difference. You would probably get faster reaction times overall by modifying the shell.


Yeah at best the click latency would match my FPS, which converts to about 8ms/frame apparently. Atm I don't notice a delay and I doubt I would apart from spamming single-shot weapons, in the best case scenario I win a few extra fights and not even know that it's down to that. So in any case, I'll keep my eye on the EC1-A mouse and see what comes to replace it, and if it gives me enough of an upgrade for me to buy it.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Pretty sure the "click latency fix" was first introduced in the ECx-A series and after that they implemented it on all their mice. *ZA series has the same click latency as FK1 these days afaik.*


Err... it doesn't.
I have the FK1 and the ZA12 now. I've used the FK1 for a year and I know how bad the latency was, the ZA12 has been in my hands for the last 2 months and the difference is definitely noticeable. The ZA12 has less latency than the FK1, period.

On the other hand, I cannot tell the difference between the ZA12 and EC2-A in terms of click latency, but I do have much less time with the latter and AFAIC, if I can't spot it then it's fine for me. Charts and numbers will always say a different thing of course.


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> Err... it doesn't.
> I have the FK1 and the ZA12 now. I've used the FK1 for a year and I know how bad the latency was, the ZA12 has been in my hands for the last 2 months and the difference is definitely noticeable. The ZA12 has less latency than the FK1, period.
> 
> On the other hand, I cannot tell the difference between the ZA12 and EC2-A in terms of click latency, but I do have much less time with the latter and AFAIC, if I can't spot it then it's fine for me. Charts and numbers will always say a different thing of course.


Do you have an FK1 that has the click latency optimized? Very likely that you just have an unit that doesn't have the fix implemented.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Do you have an FK1 that has the click latency optimized? Very likely that you just have an unit that doesn't have the fix implemented.


No I don't... which is why I said, there's a difference between the FK1 and ZA12. So, you're saying the FK1 has been fixed before already?


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> No I don't... which is why I said, there's a difference between the FK1 and ZA12. So, you're saying the FK1 has been fixed before already?


FK:s, ZA:s and ECx-A:s have the same click latency after the upgrades.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> FK:s, ZA:s and ECx-A:s have the same click latency after the upgrades.


I can't find it off the top of my head but the click latency issue was fixed about the same time the ZA line came out, which shipped with it already fixed. The 'newer' FK and EC's manufactured started shipped with it fixed. Anyone?


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> *FK:s, ZA:s and ECx-A:s have the same click latency* after the upgrades.


So basically, Zowie has lowered the input latency since the ZA released.

Then why did you say this:
Quote:


> *Pretty sure the "click latency fix" was first introduced in the ECx-A series* and after that they implemented it on all their mice. ZA series has the same click latency as FK1 these days afaik.


----------



## Arizonian

Found the video showing FK1 improved latency fix


----------



## hasukka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> So basically, Zowie has lowered the input latency since the ZA released.


Where did you get that I said the input latency was lowered after ZA release? I've said like 4 times now that it was lowered after ECx-A release. Even that video posted ^ says it's been implemented since ECX-A:s were manufactured.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> Then why did you say this:


Yes I said it was lowered after the ECx-A series. Not sure what's your problem here?


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arizonian*
> 
> Found the video showing FK1 improved latency fix


So they did indeed update the FK1, mine would be the older so I could potentially benefit from an upgrade. As far as firmware upgrades go, if Zowie could do it without raising costs then that'd decent. Maybe just as an option for enthusiasts, something like how you upgrade routers with a PCB header, but obviously something a lot simpler and cost-effective.


----------



## benbenkr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hasukka*
> 
> Where did you get that I said the input latency was lowered after ZA release? I've said like 4 times now that it was lowered after ECx-A release. Even that video posted ^ says it's been implemented since ECX-A:s were manufactured.
> Yes I said it was lowered after the ECx-A series. Not sure what's your problem here?


My mistake. I rechecked my facts, the ZA released AFTER the ECx-A. I've been thinking the other way round.

I apologize.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> From what I read, Zowie reduced the debounce in half. Instead of ~16ms it's ~8ms. That is a slight improvement only a few people will discern in-game. When it comes to online reaction time tests, I doubt you will be consistent enough to notice a 8ms difference. You would probably get faster reaction times overall by modifying the shell.


Thanks for the input popups, I really notice some kind and for delay, don't know why I feel this, maybe it's caused by huanos switches and I'm not used to them, maybe its hardware related, but it feels slower than my g400, and that I'm sure of... With g400 it's faster when I shoot, and I don't have any fps drop/freeze...
I'll sell this mouse, I loved almost everything about this mouse, but it's delay hold me back..
Maybe and if zowie release this model with omrons I'll give it a new try.. For now staying with my g400...


----------



## danielhowk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *benbenkr*
> 
> My mistake. I rechecked my facts, the ZA released AFTER the ECx-A. I've been thinking the other way round.
> 
> I apologize.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Thanks for the input popups, I really notice some kind and for delay, don't know why I feel this, maybe it's caused by huanos switches and I'm not used to them, maybe its hardware related, but it feels slower than my g400, and that I'm sure of... With g400 it's faster when I shoot, and I don't have any fps drop/freeze...
> I'll sell this mouse, I loved almost everything about this mouse, but it's delay hold me back..
> Maybe and if zowie release this model with omrons I'll give it a new try.. For now staying with my g400...


the recent Zowie EC-1A is what we are talking about right ?
didint they fix the latency / delay on the click.
with a new type zowie EC-1A ?
i could be wrong though. did you buy the older or newer ones ?


----------



## etplayer

Can anyone confirm which version of the FK shell these mice have? Zowie are a little vague on which exact shell they use, they just say they use the shell from the "FK series", and there are a few (at least 2) if I'm not mistaken. According to this review it's the FK1 shell, and I have also seen a couple of complaints about the shell being a touch too grainy, if that's the case I guess it's the FK1 shell, which may actually make it worth me getting one of these.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

ZA series has already been tested.

See:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *danielhowk*
> 
> the recent Zowie EC-1A is what we are talking about right ?
> didint they fix the latency / delay on the click.
> with a new type zowie EC-1A ?
> i could be wrong though. did you buy the older or newer ones ?


How can I see if mine is the new or the older one? Is there some serial number like g400 had, to see which one was prediction free?


----------



## thatgold

Interested in grabbing me a EC1-A, have they fixed the middle scroll yet?


----------



## Jaggar

I just got one last monday, and my scroll wheel is perfect in terms of registering when its supposed too. I really do wish it was mechanically more tactile, as if the teeth locked in a little more firmly.


----------



## shatterboxd3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> How can I see if mine is the new or the older one? Is there some serial number like g400 had, to see which one was prediction free?


All of the EC-A mice had the improved latency from the get go. It was the evo's and evo CL's etc before them that had the big delay.


----------



## MLJS54

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etplayer*
> 
> Can anyone confirm which version of the FK shell these mice have? Zowie are a little vague on which exact shell they use, they just say they use the shell from the "FK series", and there are a few (at least 2) if I'm not mistaken. According to this review it's the FK1 shell, and I have also seen a couple of complaints about the shell being a touch too grainy, if that's the case I guess it's the FK1 shell, which may actually make it worth me getting one of these.


It's the grainier FK1 shell.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shatterboxd3*
> 
> All of the EC-A mice had the improved latency from the get go. It was the evo's and evo CL's etc before them that had the big delay.


Well then I'm not sure what can cause this delay, but I'm sure it's there... There's some kind of issue because I can't play like with g400..it feels very different, not talking about the sensor itself, but there's a problem with those buttons /registering hits in cs go and source (and I'm not talking about the pistol rounds since I know I'm slower because of huanos)


----------



## shatterboxd3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Well then I'm not sure what can cause this delay, but I'm sure it's there... There's some kind of issue because I can't play like with g400..it feels very different, not talking about the sensor itself, but there's a problem with those buttons /registering hits in cs go and source (and I'm not talking about the pistol rounds since I know I'm slower because of huanos)


That's all on you mang. I awp just as well with my ec1-a as I did with my mx510 back in the day, and with my Rival. My pistols and Rifles are better than ever, but that's just because of the shape working for my hands.

I know when I used my FK1, I could pistol well, and rifle ok but my awping was ****. Could be me being used to the stiffer clicks of the FK1 made the EC1-a clicks easy for me, and you just need to adjust? I mean, huano's aren't going to just magically make you suck at pistols.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shatterboxd3*
> 
> That's all on you mang. I awp just as well with my ec1-a as I did with my mx510 back in the day, and with my Rival. My pistols and Rifles are better than ever, but that's just because of the shape working for my hands.
> 
> I know when I used my FK1, I could pistol well, and rifle ok but my awping was ****. Could be me being used to the stiffer clicks of the FK1 made the EC1-a clicks easy for me, and you just need to adjust? I mean, huano's aren't going to just magically make you suck at pistols.


Thanks for your help shatterboxd3, i don't have any issues with shape, it's one of the most comfortable mouse I had, it fits me like a glove, maybe ec2 could be better but since it's smaller, I would have to curl my fingers a bit, and it would be like a claw grip... So I went with ec1-a and I don't regret my choice on size.
The only issue it's with registering hits, not only with pistols but with rifles... When I go to console on cs, no matter if cs go or source, I see the damage I do to other players, and I have to hit almost twice the shots then with g400... My sensitivity method I think its the right one, put the mouse on the left side of the mouse pad and measure the same cm until i can do a 360, so its not under aiming, the mouse don't feel slower, only more difficult to get a kill 
Sorry if I can't explain better... Maybe I'll post a video one of this days so you'll can see what I'm talking about..


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> It's the grainier FK1 shell.


Thanks for confirming it, looks like I might get one of these then


----------



## shatterboxd3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Thanks for your help shatterboxd3, i don't have any issues with shape, it's one of the most comfortable mouse I had, it fits me like a glove, maybe ec2 could be better but since it's smaller, I would have to curl my fingers a bit, and it would be like a claw grip... So I went with ec1-a and I don't regret my choice on size.
> The only issue it's with registering hits, not only with pistols but with rifles... When I go to console on cs, no matter if cs go or source, I see the damage I do to other players, and I have to hit almost twice the shots then with g400... My sensitivity method I think its the right one, put the mouse on the left side of the mouse pad and measure the same cm until i can do a 360, so its not under aiming, the mouse don't feel slower, only more difficult to get a kill
> Sorry if I can't explain better... Maybe I'll post a video one of this days so you'll can see what I'm talking about..


Eh, it really seems to me like something you will get used to. I haven't seen a g400 tested against any of the recent zowie mice but I think they were only +5ms on the logi mice which really shouldn't have an effect on you. As long as you are comfortable with the shape the rest will follow


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shatterboxd3*
> 
> Eh, it really seems to me like something you will get used to. I haven't seen a g400 tested against any of the recent zowie mice but I think they were only +5ms on the logi mice which really shouldn't have an effect on you. As long as you are comfortable with the shape the rest will follow


Not so sure about that, since i used it for 2 months straight and I couldn't get used to it, so I returned to g400, I'm not in love with the shape, but it seems better on those issues I talked about.. I love the zowie shape, not so much the scroll wheel, but I could live with that, but the other issues I was talking about, it's a complete turn off for me.. I'm going to sell it and one day, when zowie launches the same model with a better sensor I'll give it a try. For now I'm going to use g400 until he's dead hehehe


----------



## kazuyamishima

If Zowie releases a glossy version of this I will pick up more than just one. But until then I will continue to use my EC1 Evo White as long as possible.

Too bad they no longer offer the glossy option for some of their mice. Not only is it comfortable for me and provides superb grip, but out of all mice I tried the glossy coating on the Zowies was the nicest!

Fingers crossed.


----------



## etplayer

Do these mice have the same cable thickness as the FK1?

EDIT: Never mind, looks like they are a little thinner actually, so can't go wrong on that.


----------



## danielhowk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kazuyamishima*
> 
> If Zowie releases a glossy version of this I will pick up more than just one. But until then I will continue to use my EC1 Evo White as long as possible.
> 
> Too bad they no longer offer the glossy option for some of their mice. Not only is it comfortable for me and provides superb grip, but out of all mice I tried the glossy coating on the Zowies was the nicest!
> 
> Fingers crossed.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etplayer*
> 
> Do these mice have the same cable thickness as the FK1?
> 
> EDIT: Never mind, looks like they are a little thinner actually, so can't go wrong on that.


does the zowie Ec1-a have button latency ? or is fix in the EC-1A version ?


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *danielhowk*
> 
> does the zowie Ec1-a have button latency ? or is fix in the EC-1A version ?


If you go back a few pages in this thread you should see a video review on this. It's not fixed in the sense that it's gone, but it's down by half or round abouts according to all tests people have done and reviews. Or at least 6ms faster than what it was. In other good news, people have reported the shell of the ec1-a provides more leverage to click the button, so I would expect button spamming to a slight but noticable improvement, but I don't have mine yet so I can't say for sure.

It looks like zowie has put some effort in to improving on the performance yet again with their refreshed mice, jitter looks lower, albeit with slightly lower than reported cpi steps but that doesn't bother me so long as the cpi is usable for normal every day desktop usage. Speaking of this, I wondered if anyone can provide a few screenshots of polling rate tests with the mouse moving very fast, it would be great to know if that's improved as well


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creizai*
> 
> .45mm stock
> Zowie Speedy Skatez Replacement is .65


I thought the stock skates were .65mm as well?


----------



## danielhowk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etplayer*
> 
> If you go back a few pages in this thread you should see a video review on this. It's not fixed in the sense that it's gone, but it's down by half or round abouts according to all tests people have done and reviews. Or at least 6ms faster than what it was. In other good news, people have reported the shell of the ec1-a provides more leverage to click the button, so I would expect button spamming to a slight but noticable improvement, but I don't have mine yet so I can't say for sure.
> 
> It looks like zowie has put some effort in to improving on the performance yet again with their refreshed mice, jitter looks lower, albeit with slightly lower than reported cpi steps but that doesn't bother me so long as the cpi is usable for normal every day desktop usage. Speaking of this, I wondered if anyone can provide a few screenshots of polling rate tests with the mouse moving very fast, it would be great to know if that's improved as well


is it called EC-1a the lower latency one ?
or is it like EC-1a v.2 ? in remarks of making it faster ?
just hoping i get the newer and faster (lower latency) one


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *danielhowk*
> 
> is it called EC-1a the lower latency one ?
> or is it like EC-1a v.2 ? in remarks of making it faster ?
> just hoping i get the newer and faster (lower latency) one


I'm pretty sure those issues occurred with the *Original* Zowie EC1 and quite possibly the Zowie EC1 eVo.


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *danielhowk*
> 
> is it called EC-1a the lower latency one ?
> or is it like EC-1a v.2 ? in remarks of making it faster ?
> just hoping i get the newer and faster (lower latency) one


EC2-a is just a different size than the EC1-a, they have the same performance. If you're using an older Zowie EC then you might benefit a bit from getting an EC1-A or EC2-A, as it's the newer version of EC mice and yes the performance is updated. I haven't tried an EC-A mouse yet though, so maybe someone else can comment on how good it is. From the reviews, I'd say go for it.


----------



## agsz

Anyone deal with Zowie for RMA's before? If so, how long does it take to get a response; get confirmation to ship your mouse; and receive your new item?


----------



## mint567

Its been a while since I rma'd a device through Zowie but when I did it was a relatively quick and responsive process (I'm in the US). The replacement was sent from California.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Anyone deal with Zowie for RMA's before? If so, how long does it take to get a response; get confirmation to ship your mouse; and receive your new item?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mint567*
> 
> Its been a while since I rma'd a device through Zowie but when I did it was a relatively quick and responsive process (I'm in the US). The replacement was sent from California.


Thanks for the reply I was kind of waiting for someone to respond to him being curious myself. Would you say this was under a three-week process which is pretty normal?


----------



## mint567

It was under a month based on the emails I could find. The 3 week estimate you provide seems reasonable based on my experience.


----------



## Arizonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mint567*
> 
> It was under a month based on the emails I could find. The 3 week estimate you provide seems reasonable based on my experience.


Thank you for taking the time to look that up and verify that for us. +1 REP


----------



## etplayer

Is there a sure way to know if these mice are the version with lower click latency when buying? no model number, or whatever? I have heard the lower click latency is something they changed after releasing, so just wondering


----------



## Snakesoul

Hmm I think from previous posts, when they released them, the delay was already fixed... But If you go back a few pages you can see i reported and asked for help, since my zowie have some kind of delay, have a registering issue when hitting someone on cs go or cs source... It registers more hits and it's more difficult to kill someone with this mouse, also it seems to have some kind of fps drops... My mouse is definitely more unresponsive then my g400... (btw I have an ec1-a)..


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Hmm I think from previous posts, when they released them, the delay was already fixed... But If you go back a few pages you can see i reported and asked for help, since my zowie have some kind of delay, have a registering issue when hitting someone on cs go or cs source... It registers more hits and it's more difficult to kill someone with this mouse, also it seems to have some kind of fps drops... My mouse is definitely more unresponsive then my g400... (btw I have an ec1-a)..


I'm wondering now if that's just your unit and an RMA is needed. Has anyone else had problems with the EC1-A?


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etplayer*
> 
> I'm wondering now if that's just your unit and an RMA is needed. Has anyone else had problems with the EC1-A?


Well that's something difficult to say since i have no other zowie to compare..
If my unit needs RMA, how can I prove what I'm saying? Allso should I contact reseller or zowie?
If i go to the reseller and tell them that I think they're going to look at me like I'm an alien or something....


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Well that's something difficult to say since i have no other zowie to compare..
> If my unit needs RMA, how can I prove what I'm saying? Allso should I contact reseller or zowie?
> If i go to the reseller and tell them that I think they're going to look at me like I'm an alien or something....


Unless someone else says theirs is the same, I would rma. Better choice to try with the seller, depending who that is they might not care too much about RMA'ing.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Hmm I think from previous posts, when they released them, the delay was already fixed... But If you go back a few pages you can see i reported and asked for help, since my zowie have some kind of delay, have a registering issue when hitting someone on cs go or cs source... It registers more hits and it's more difficult to kill someone with this mouse, also it seems to have some kind of fps drops... My mouse is definitely more unresponsive then my g400... (btw I have an ec1-a)..


FPS Drops = CS:GO issue since the 9/15/15 update, I highly doubt a software-less Mouse could cause these issues. I just got an EC1-A , coming from a Deathadder. This mouse doesn't register micro-movements unless it has massive pixel skipping, and the Mouse 1 is more resistant if you position your index finger on the far left of the Mouse 1, which is what I was doing at first as well. I did the RMA request over at Zowie's site, I got my mouse through RexFlo / Amazon, I think Amazon just takes care of the shipping, not sure.


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> FPS Drops = CS:GO issue since the 9/15/15 update, I highly doubt a software-less Mouse could cause these issues. I just got an EC1-A , coming from a Deathadder. This mouse doesn't register micro-movements unless it has massive pixel skipping, and the Mouse 1 is more resistant if you position your index finger on the far left of the Mouse 1, which is what I was doing at first as well. I did the RMA request over at Zowie's site, I got my mouse through RexFlo / Amazon, I think Amazon just takes care of the shipping, not sure.


Sad news, I have seen some amazon reviews with complaints about the scroll wheel breaking or acting odd too (others say it's a decent scroll wheel). If there's more reports of issues I may have to give up on Zowie, as much as they're getting the performance right. I'm also thinking about a 3090 mouse (would be nice if zowie had a new line for these), or a deathadder 2013 if it's bearable without constant software settings changing.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etplayer*
> 
> Sad news, I have seen some amazon reviews with complaints about the scroll wheel breaking or acting odd too (others say it's a decent scroll wheel). If there's more reports of issues I may have to give up on Zowie, as much as they're getting the performance right. I'm also thinking about a 3090 mouse (would be nice if zowie had a new line for these), or a deathadder 2013 if it's bearable without constant software settings changing.


I install Razer Synapse, set to 400dpi @ 1000Hz, reboot and uninstall and i'm fine, it never changes. I will say that the zowie Ec1-A gave me a whole new level of appreciation for my Deathadder 2013, one that many people don't understand since on paper the EC1-A is superior to a Deathadder 2013.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> FPS Drops = CS:GO issue since the 9/15/15 update, I highly doubt a software-less Mouse could cause these issues. I just got an EC1-A , coming from a Deathadder. This mouse doesn't register micro-movements unless it has massive pixel skipping, and the Mouse 1 is more resistant if you position your index finger on the far left of the Mouse 1, which is what I was doing at first as well. I did the RMA request over at Zowie's site, I got my mouse through RexFlo / Amazon, I think Amazon just takes care of the shipping, not sure.


The fps drops I mentioned were before the update, and I'm not using the mouse anymore.. I put it away... Well not sure if it's the finger positioning that's causing the delay, but there's something wrong about mine...
Not sure which one should I contact first... Zowie or reseller...
Thanks for the input


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> The fps drops I mentioned were before the update, and I'm not using the mouse anymore.. I put it away... Well not sure if it's the finger positioning that's causing the delay, but there's something wrong about mine...
> Not sure which one should I contact first... Zowie or reseller...
> Thanks for the input


So your g400s + Logitech Software = Higher FPS than Zowie EC1-A without Software? Just making sure I have it correct, because as most would agree with me, that seems quite odd, but nothing is impossible.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> So your g400s + Logitech Software = Higher FPS than Zowie EC1-A without Software? Just making sure I have it correct, because as most would agree with me, that seems quite odd, but nothing is impossible.


Waiiiiit  I'm not using G400s, only g400 (the old one without prediction), and no software installed... I like g400 because for me it's a plug and play mouse, since I use 800dpi. The only thing I don't like about it it's the right lip... And after some years using it, I'm not used to it... But I can use it....
I can say for sure, besides the issues I have with it, zowie ec1 a it's one the most comfortable mice I used, for a fully palm gripper like I am.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Waiiiiit  I'm not using G400s, only g400 (the old one without prediction), and no software installed... I like g400 because for me it's a plug and play mouse, since I use 800dpi. The only thing I don't like about it it's the right lip... And after some years using it, I'm not used to it... But I can use it....


Ahh sorry, I misread. If you have say 15 minutes of spare time, I'd be interested to see some benchmarks in CS:GO with g400 plugged in versus EC1-A plugged in.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Ahh sorry, I misread. If you have say 15 minutes of spare time, I'd be interested to see some benchmarks in CS:GO with g400 plugged in versus EC1-A plugged in.


I can do that if you have some free time to teach me which applications I should use and how i do that  right now I'm at work but soon I get home I can test it for you  no problem


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I install Razer Synapse, set to 400dpi @ 1000Hz, reboot and uninstall and i'm fine, it never changes. I will say that the zowie Ec1-A gave me a whole new level of appreciation for my Deathadder 2013, one that many people don't understand since on paper the EC1-A is superior to a Deathadder 2013.


I think I'll give Zowie some benefit of the doubt if there is any indication that people are just ending up with some bad units somewhere. I've only really used the FK1 for a short time, but I feel the 3090 did better, maybe with more time I'll change my mind and be more certain about the 3310's, but I think tracking performance may just top some of the better on paper mice. To be more fair, it's doing really well in fast paced games.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etplayer*
> 
> Sad news, I have seen some amazon reviews with complaints about the scroll wheel breaking or acting odd too (others say it's a decent scroll wheel). If there's more reports of issues I may have to give up on Zowie, as much as they're getting the performance right. I'm also thinking about a 3090 mouse (would be nice if zowie had a new line for these), or a deathadder 2013 if it's bearable without constant software settings changing.


I think the scroll wheel problems people are having is down to the user not understanding the wheel.

Due to the design of the wheel you could unknowingly scroll if you rest your finger on it or you could leave the wheel between notches. That's more the case with the newer wheel.

Logitech has a more distinct notches for their wheel.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I think the scroll wheel problems people are having is down to the user not understanding the wheel.
> 
> Due to the design of the wheel you could unknowingly scroll if you rest your finger on it or you could leave the wheel between notches. That's more the case with the newer wheel.
> 
> Logitech has a more distinct notches for their wheel.


Yup, it was the same with the older wheel as well (if not a bit worse). The notches on the zowie wheel (especially the ECx series) have gigantic gaps between them so it's very easy to leave it "half-cocked" and just the slightest nudge from your finger hitting it or resting on it will actuate it.

It's really unfortunate how bad the scroll wheel is on the EC2 because the shape is phenomenal.


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I think the scroll wheel problems people are having is down to the user not understanding the wheel.
> 
> Due to the design of the wheel you could unknowingly scroll if you rest your finger on it or you could leave the wheel between notches. That's more the case with the newer wheel.
> 
> Logitech has a more distinct notches for their wheel.


So, I guess people are just applying too much pressure? I think I'd be okay provided the wheel moves when I want it to and stays still otherwise, I'm not usually resting my finger there. With the FK1 I'm noticing I can scroll by mistake if using the wheel click button, or accidental scrolling the other way when switching weapons with the scroll wheel.


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> Yup, it was the same with the older wheel as well (if not a bit worse). The notches on the zowie wheel (especially the ECx series) have gigantic gaps between them so it's very easy to leave it "half-cocked" and just the slightest nudge from your finger hitting it or resting on it will actuate it.
> 
> It's really unfortunate how bad the scroll wheel is on the EC2 because the shape is phenomenal.


Doesn't sound as bad as the FK1 wheel for me is, if there's bigger gaps that's gonna leave some room for me to 'not' actuate it as well. Do you have issues with it scrolling the wrong way when it's "half cocked"?


----------



## boogdud

It can, yeah. But it usually just looks like a hiccup, almost like a single scroll click. If you have something bound to scroll up/down it would definitely nudge it.


----------



## Snakesoul

Well for me scroll wheel isn't much of an issue, since I just use it to scroll between weapons, it's just a matter of time to adapt.. Sure it feels weird compared to another models, or an normal and cheap office mouse, but it's ok..
Meanwhile I sent and email to the shop that sold me the mouse to see if there's some kind of solution for my problem.
I know it's going to be difficult to prove it, but since I'm the only one with this problem, it's not to be easy... If I'm not succeeded, I'll contact zowie to see if there's some possibility to rma (according to zowie site"In the event that warranty repair or replacement is necessary, contact your original place of purchase. If for any reason the original place of purchase is unable to assist, contact ZOWIE GEAR for warranty service.)...Wish me luck 
Meanwhile back to g400... This is truly a love/hate I feel with this mouse...
I wouldn't mind if I could have zowie ec1-a she'll with the internals of the g400... That would be a dream come true


----------



## ForzaStellaris

Had EC1-Evo glossy finish since 2013. Bought the EC1-A version this week and exchanged half of the shell for better grip. The EC1-A is an even better mouse than the EVO! Best shell ever


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Well for me scroll wheel isn't much of an issue, since I just use it to scroll between weapons, it's just a matter of time to adapt.. Sure it feels weird compared to another models, or an normal and cheap office mouse, but it's ok..
> Meanwhile I sent and email to the shop that sold me the mouse to see if there's some kind of solution for my problem.
> I know it's going to be difficult to prove it, but since I'm the only one with this problem, it's not to be easy... If I'm not succeeded, I'll contact zowie to see if there's some possibility to rma (according to zowie site"In the event that warranty repair or replacement is necessary, contact your original place of purchase. If for any reason the original place of purchase is unable to assist, contact ZOWIE GEAR for warranty service.)...Wish me luck
> Meanwhile back to g400... This is truly a love/hate I feel with this mouse...
> I wouldn't mind if I could have zowie ec1-a she'll with the internals of the g400... That would be a dream come true


Sorry, forgot to respond to your post. http://www.hltv.org/blog/7971-one-of-the-best-method-to-check-your-fps-in-csgo - I'd run 10 tests with the EC1-A plugged in, and 10 tests without. Heard back from Zowie RMA, they told me to Uninstall my Windows Mouse Driver in Device Manager, as a way of testing..never once heard of that.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Sorry, forgot to respond to your post. http://www.hltv.org/blog/7971-one-of-the-best-method-to-check-your-fps-in-csgo - I'd run 10 tests with the EC1-A plugged in, and 10 tests without. Heard back from Zowie RMA, they told me to Uninstall my Windows Mouse Driver in Device Manager, as a way of testing..never once heard of that.


Hi agsz,

Thanks for the input and sorry for the late reply









So i made some tests and here are the results









G400:
1st test:
7487 frames 31.952 seconds 234.32 fps ( 4.27 ms/f) 18.232 fps variability
2nd test:
7487 frames 29.160 seconds 256.76 fps ( 3.89 ms/f) 17.959 fps variability
3rd test:
7487 frames 28.977 seconds 258.38 fps ( 3.87 ms/f) 17.590 fps variability
4th test:
7487 frames 28.986 seconds 258.30 fps ( 3.87 ms/f) 17.314 fps variability

Zowie ec1-a:
1st test:
7487 frames 29.103 seconds 257.26 fps ( 3.89 ms/f) 17.041 fps variability
2nd test:
7487 frames 29.181 seconds 256.57 fps ( 3.90 ms/f) 17.135 fps variability
3rd test:
7487 frames 28.871 seconds 259.32 fps ( 3.86 ms/f) 17.072 fps variability
4th test:
7487 frames 29.016 seconds 258.03 fps ( 3.88 ms/f) 16.616 fps variability

I made the tests with 1980x1080p with low settings, and it seems that fps drops i mentioned were placebo?
What are your thoughts about this tests?
I'm going to send my ec1 back to the store from where i purchased and see if i get a new one...


----------



## Tyler10274

Does anyone else have an EC2-A that has lens rattle when you move the mouse vertically? Just got it today and it started rattling about an hour ago. Not sure if this is just an unwanted "feature" of the mouse and it'll be in all models if I RMA it, or if I could fix it somehow.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Hi agsz,
> 
> Thanks for the input and sorry for the late reply
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So i made some tests and here are the results
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G400:
> 1st test:
> 7487 frames 31.952 seconds 234.32 fps ( 4.27 ms/f) 18.232 fps variability
> 2nd test:
> 7487 frames 29.160 seconds 256.76 fps ( 3.89 ms/f) 17.959 fps variability
> 3rd test:
> 7487 frames 28.977 seconds 258.38 fps ( 3.87 ms/f) 17.590 fps variability
> 4th test:
> 7487 frames 28.986 seconds 258.30 fps ( 3.87 ms/f) 17.314 fps variability
> 
> Zowie ec1-a:
> 1st test:
> 7487 frames 29.103 seconds 257.26 fps ( 3.89 ms/f) 17.041 fps variability
> 2nd test:
> 7487 frames 29.181 seconds 256.57 fps ( 3.90 ms/f) 17.135 fps variability
> 3rd test:
> 7487 frames 28.871 seconds 259.32 fps ( 3.86 ms/f) 17.072 fps variability
> 4th test:
> 7487 frames 29.016 seconds 258.03 fps ( 3.88 ms/f) 16.616 fps variability
> 
> I made the tests with 1980x1080p with low settings, and it seems that fps drops i mentioned were placebo?
> What are your thoughts about this tests?
> I'm going to send my ec1 back to the store from where i purchased and see if i get a new one...


I mean, didn't you see your frames drop with the EC1-A plugged in, or did you not have net_Graph on when using it?


----------



## qsxcv

wat....
try alternating instead of doing 10 of one mice in a row and then 10 of the other one.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I mean, didn't you see your frames drop with the EC1-A plugged in, or did you not have net_Graph on when using it?


Hi agsz, I didn't have net graph on, since it was an option to be disabled (well that's what I understood from reading the link )
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> wat....
> try alternating instead of doing 10 of one mice in a row and then 10 of the other one.


Hi qsxcv, I also tried that method and the results were almost the same ones i posted...
Meanwhile I'm going to send it back and see if I get some feedback from the shop or zowie...

Edit: I noticed my ec1-a skates are a bit worned for the little time i used them, they look like "black matte" in the center.. Comparing to my G400, these ones look shiny and they glide much better then ec1's and are still the original ones.... The mouse pad is the same i used with both mices... any thought why they look different? Aren't they made from the same material? (Teflon)


----------



## etplayer

I suspect csgo is cpu intensive then? It would make sense if the mouse can cause framerate drops, maybe it's chewing through cpu cycles for some unknown reason.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Hi agsz, I didn't have net graph on, since it was an option to be disabled (well that's what I understood from reading the link )
> Hi qsxcv, I also tried that method and the results were almost the same ones i posted...
> Meanwhile I'm going to send it back and see if I get some feedback from the shop or zowie...
> 
> Edit: I noticed my ec1-a skates are a bit worned for the little time i used them, they look like "black matte" in the center.. Comparing to my G400, these ones look shiny and they glide much better then ec1's and are still the original ones.... The mouse pad is the same i used with both mices... any thought why they look different? Aren't they made from the same material? (Teflon)


The replacement skates have much less friction and glide better from what I've seen, I put them on mine and it helped a bit.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> wat....
> try alternating instead of doing 10 of one mice in a row and then 10 of the other one.


The reason I had him do 10 of each at once, was to compile an average, and then compare to see if there is in fact an FPS drop.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> The replacement skates have much less friction and glide better from what I've seen, I put them on mine and it helped a bit.


Well I send it back to the shop I bought it from, let's see if they'll replace it with a new one..
I was wondering, did anyone tried to put some intellimouse skates, I guess it would glide better since they are smaller than the zowie...
Stock skates seem to drag a very high amount of friction compared to G400, really my g400 skates look like I sprayed them with some kind of polish and they glide like crazy..


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Well I send it back to the shop I bought it from, let's see if they'll replace it with a new one..
> I was wondering, did anyone tried to put some intellimouse skates, I guess it would glide better since they are smaller than the zowie...
> Stock skates seem to drag a very high amount of friction compared to G400, really my g400 skates look like I sprayed them with some kind of polish and they glide like crazy..


You can try hyperglides, hotline games hurricane feet or hotline games competition feet, they all glide more than the stock feet, especially hyperglides which are just.. super glide. If you already have some skates for the MS, it'd be worth trying for ecomonic reaons. After a little breaking in the stock skates may work a little better, on cloth pads they should polish up a little.


----------



## etplayer

Speaking of skates, I'll be getting my ec1-a tomorrow (fingers crossed for no RMA), so I'm wondering if anyone can confirm that ec evo / ec1 / ec2 skates will be fully compatible. I'm assuming they're identical on the new mice, but I just want to be sure before placing a large order.


----------



## Twiffle




----------



## etplayer

Got my ec1-a today and used it for a couple of hours. Shape feels very nice for me, and despite being heavier it feels lighter and about the right weight now that the grip is improved for me. Mouse wheel works how I'd expect it to so far and very smoothly, I don't know why anyone would have an issue with it. Scroll wheel lighting goes unnoticed during actual usage. No unusual issues so far.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etplayer*
> 
> Got my ec1-a today and used it for a couple of hours. Shape feels very nice for me, and despite being heavier it feels about the right weight now that the grip is improved for me. Mouse wheel works how I'd expect it to so far and very smoothly, I don't know why anyone would have an issue with it. Scroll wheel lighting goes unnoticed during actual usage.


Because esburtz palyers need mousewheel to bunnyhop, which is uber pro


----------



## boogdud

My complaints aren't anything with gaming, it just feels sloppy/gritty during scrolling while browsing, etc.


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Because esburtz palyers need mousewheel to bunnyhop, which is uber pro


I bind weapons to it or special slots depending on the game for quick access


----------



## Scrimstar

Are the click as hard as a kinzu V2? That click was awful... like a pressing a middle button.. I have used the g9x, mionix avior 7k, and g500. how does the click compare

also which of these skates would fit? and is hotline or tiger skates better? might get hurricane editions but idk if thats a good idea with a hard click

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Zowie-EC1-EC2-Mouse-Feet-0-18mm-Hurricane-/121120355278?var=&hash=item1c3355f3ce
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Zowie-EC1-EC-eVo-EC2-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition-/111427911417?var=&hash=item19f19efef9


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> Are the click as hard as a kinzu V2? That click was awful... like a pressing a middle button.. I have used the g9x, mionix avior 7k, and g500. how does the click compare
> 
> also which of these skates would fit? and is hotline or tiger skates better? might get hurricane editions but idk if thats a good idea with a hard click
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Zowie-EC1-EC2-Mouse-Feet-0-18mm-Hurricane-/121120355278?var=&hash=item1c3355f3ce
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Zowie-EC1-EC-eVo-EC2-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition-/111427911417?var=&hash=item19f19efef9


I think all the EC mouse feet will fit, I'm not 100% sure though. Tiger are quicker than the standard hotline feet, hurrikane should be quicker than tiger feet. I think the hotline games feet are more consistent and maybe more value for money being 0.5mm.


----------



## KFieLd

Just put in my order for the EC2-A. Should have it by Tues or Wed next week. Was looking for something a touch smaller than my current DA 2013... and wanted something with the 3310. Haven't tried Zowie products as of yet.. always been a logitech or razer user. I've heard so many good things about zowie mice and I was looking for a simplistic, raw, accurate mouse since precision is the most important thing to me...and I wanted to be done with synapse lol. Will post an update once I receive mine. If I find it's too small it will probably be sent back to amazon in favor of the EC1-A but if I did the math right, this should fit my small'ish hand perfectly. I think the shape will do me well as I very much like the deathadder shape (minus the curvature of the M1 and M2 buttons that kind of force you into holding the DA a particular way) but never liked it's weight. The 2013 will of course remain as a trusty backup, but will be ordering some new skates for it if I ever intend to use it again. Had it for almost 2 years, still running strong albeit the rubber side panels SUCK now.


----------



## etplayer

Some polling rate screencaps



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!










As solid as the FK1, will check later and see if there's any difference, think there might be a very slight improvement.


----------



## Scrimstar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etplayer*
> 
> I think all the EC mouse feet will fit, I'm not 100% sure though. Tiger are quicker than the standard hotline feet, hurrikane should be quicker than tiger feet. I think the hotline games feet are more consistent and maybe more value for money being 0.5mm.


thanks. I have used the performance feet, they are pretty good, but slower than mionix stock.

anyone care to iterate if it clicks as hard as a kinzu V2? That click was awful... like a pressing a middle button.. I have used the g9x, mionix avior 7k, and g500. how does the click compare


----------



## qsxcv

a mouse either has stable usb reports or it doesnt. (e.g. jumps to 2ms/500hz randomly)
it doesn't affect the stability of the numbers you see in that... the system does.

i.e. for a given computer, you won't find that one mouse shows

990
1012
987
995
1020

and another mouse shows
999
1000
1000
1001
1000


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> a mouse either has stable usb reports or it doesnt. (e.g. jumps to 2ms/500hz randomly)
> it doesn't affect the stability of the numbers you see in that... the system does.
> 
> i.e. for a given computer, you won't find that one mouse shows
> 
> 990
> 1012
> 987
> 995
> 1020
> 
> and another mouse shows
> 999
> 1000
> 1000
> 1001
> 1000


Informative, thanks


----------



## agsz

Still haven't sent mine in for RMA, tried it again and this sensor just feels broken, yet the Rival felt great. Is Zowie's implementation of the Pixart PWM-3310 supposed to feel different? If so, it's in a bad way to me.


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Still haven't sent mine in for RMA, tried it again and this sensor just feels broken, yet the Rival felt great. Is Zowie's implementation of the Pixart PWM-3310 supposed to feel different? If so, it's in a bad way to me.


Not sure if its in this thread but there was a discussion about how the 3310 in the EC-A series feels like it has some sort of smoothing / prediction which makes it feel odd. I myself and some other people I know tried the EC-A and swapped back to the early 3090 revisions due to how the sensor feels.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aerowalk30*
> 
> Not sure if its in this thread but there was a discussion about how the 3310 in the EC-A series feels like it has some sort of smoothing / prediction which makes it feel odd. I myself and some other people I know tried the EC-A and swapped back to the early 3090 revisions due to how the sensor feels.


At least it's not just me. My major issue with it is, small movements don't seem to register, as if there's pixel skipping or something.


----------



## danielhowk

Which is better for fingertip user?


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *danielhowk*
> 
> Which is better for fingertip user?


Not sure if EC-A series is ideal for finger tipping, but I would say EC2-A since it's smaller than EC1-A . EC1-A is 128mm length and EC2-A is 120mm . Correct me if I'm wrong about EC1-A's size. EC-A series is like the slimmer version of DeathAdder and doesn't weight as much.


----------



## danielhowk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Not sure if EC-A series is ideal for finger tipping, but I would say EC2-A since it's smaller than EC1-A . EC1-A is 128mm length and EC2-A is 120mm . Correct me if I'm wrong about EC1-A's size. EC-A series is like the slimmer version of DeathAdder and doesn't weight as much.


is EC-1A slimmer than DA ?
i know EC-2A is smaller than DA but EC-1A is slightly bigger than DA . but is it still slimmer ?


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *danielhowk*
> 
> is EC-1A slimmer than DA ?
> i know EC-2A is smaller than DA but EC-1A is slightly bigger than DA . but is it still slimmer ?


EC1-A is like 1mm longer than DeathAdder and EC1-A is thinner from side than deathadder. So in short, yes EC1-A is slimmer


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *danielhowk*
> 
> is EC-1A slimmer than DA ?
> i know EC-2A is smaller than DA but EC-1A is slightly bigger than DA . but is it still slimmer ?


If you'd like, I could take some side-by-side pictures of the Deathadder 2013 + Zowie EC1-A.


----------



## danielhowk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> If you'd like, I could take some side-by-side pictures of the Deathadder 2013 + Zowie EC1-A.


is okay i appreciate that. i bought both ec1-a and ec2-a. but thanks anyways <3 thumbs up


----------



## Scrimstar

the buttons are pretty hard like a default hp or dell mouse, my lmb is harder than my rmb. right side feels very low and im kinda forced to put my index near the MW . the hump feel outta place. my mouse wheel scrolls like ive used it for a year already

cable is fantastic tho


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> At least it's not just me. My major issue with it is, small movements don't seem to register, as if there's pixel skipping or something.


Have to say the unit i have is alright, and the smallest movements that I can make seem to be registering. Really hope these problems don't keep occuring with the Zowie mice, and I think it may even be worse if it's just some units that are doing this, as it shows you can't rely on Zowie for quality control. With the cpi steps being off as well, I think that shows there's a lot of variance from unit to unit with the ecx-a mice.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etplayer*
> 
> Have to say the unit i have is alright, and the smallest movements that I can make seem to be registering. Really hope these problems don't keep occuring with the Zowie mice, and I think it may even be worse if it's just some units that are doing this, as it shows you can't rely on Zowie for quality control. With the cpi steps being off as well, I think that shows there's a lot of variance from unit to unit with the ecx-a mice.


When you say the CPI steps are off, do you mean it's not running at the CPI step that it should? (e.g. In MouseTester.exe, it shows 380 DPI when set to 400 DPI)


----------



## etplayer

After some use of the ec1-a mouse.. grip is almost perfect (feel a slight touch more of width and length would be perfect) for me and I would suggest it for anyone who needs right handed ergonomic mouse. Grip on this for me supports my second finger in from the right, pinky I curl on the side and it's nicely comfy I don't get aching hands or anything like that. Mouse wheel does accidental scroll for me at times, but it's definately not a phantom scroll issue more of a 'I touched the wheel' issue. As I thought the raised side buttons stop me from accidental button clicks there too. I can confirm that hotline games ec feet and tiger ec feet will fit this mouse as of just now I checked them by holding them against the original feet.


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> When you say the CPI steps are off, do you mean it's not running at the CPI step that it should? (e.g. In MouseTester.exe, it shows 380 DPI when set to 400 DPI)


Yes, on the FK1 I didn't notce anyone say they had that issue and in ino's review it was spot on for 400dpi. In his review on the ec2-a it's 390.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etplayer*
> 
> Yes, on the FK1 I didn't notce anyone say they had that issue and in ino's review it was spot on for 400dpi. In his review on the ec2-a it's 390.


Yeah, I did a bunch of tests to compare to my Deathadder 2013, to see how much of a difference in DPI it was, so I could compensate by upping the in-game sensitivity. Here's some EC1-A tests:


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Yeah, I did a bunch of tests to compare to my Deathadder 2013, to see how much of a difference in DPI it was, so I could compensate by upping the in-game sensitivity. Here's some EC1-A tests:


Nice. I wouldn't be worried if everyone agreed the mice were 390dpi, or 385dpi it'd just be nice to know that it's less than random as to what you get


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etplayer*
> 
> Nice. I wouldn't be worried if everyone agreed the mice were 390dpi, or 385dpi it'd just be nice to know that it's less than random as to what you get


Well mouse surface is going to make a difference and I'm not saying agsz did his test wrong but it is easy to end up with inconsistent results with an extra few mm or cm of movement. I myself found it to be consistent on my EC-A. I consistently end up with 383-385 and I've done the test at-least 20 times now on a QCK.


----------



## aerowalk30

Well mouse surface is going to make a difference to what the DPI is. I myself have found the EC-A to consistently hit 383-385 on a QCK and at this point I've done the test over 20 times. It can be easy to get mixed or inconsistent results with a few extra mm or cm of movement during the test which is what agsz results look like.


----------



## KFieLd

Ok, so I finally received my EC2-A in the mail today after a post office issue. I haven't had a chance to test it in game yet..but I'm going to give my first impressions here, and add to them as I spend more time with the mouse.

Shape: Well, I made the right choice with the EC2-A for my hands. The mouse is light, easy to handle and I can palm it with relative ease. That being said, I do have 2 issues with the shape that I think will go away over time. My first issue is.. I feel the arch could be slightly bigger. Coming from a Deathadder and having used one for so many years.. this mouse doesn't quite "fill" your palm like a deathadder does. It fits more "loosely" in the palm, and I think that's because the DAs have a larger hump/arch profile to them. The EC2 length is perfect. The width is perfect. I think this is something I will adjust to over the next week. My other issue is the right side of the mouse, where your ring & pinky finger rest w/ a palm type grip. At least for me, where my ring and pinky finger end up lying, it's not perfectly flat like a DA wise. You end up having to rest them on a slight contour, like a very small ridge. If you are familiar with a DA, you know how the main mouse buttons have this contoured mold to them? Well, same kind of thing here... very slight but enough to be felt. I think most people including myself would feel more "in control" of the mouse if they had a flat surface to rest their ring & pinky finger on. Again, I think this is something I will adjust to over the next week of using the mouse. Overall: The shape is very comfortable. I'd rate it an 8/10.

Coating: Kind of slippery with dry hands. The EC2-A has a very "satin-esque" feeling coating. I'm a guitar player.. so this coating gives me the same kind of feeling a satin guitar neck gives me when I run my hand up and down the neck. Very slippery. No "stick". That being said, I think the coating will offer more grip for damp/sweaty hands. It feels GREAT in your hand. Very "Airy". If that even makes sense. It also feels much more high quality than the original coatings found on my 3.5/4G deathadders. My hands don't tend to sweat too much but do get damp after a good amount of intense gameplay.. so I'll have to report back on grip levels.

Main Buttons: I... LOVE THEM. One of my main issues with the deathadder series is how light the main button clicks were. I have gotten many accidental clicks, particularly mouse2, on my latest DA2013. With the huano main switches.. this problem disappears entirely. However, they are still light enough to press a ton without developing any sort of strain. They are very positive feeling when clicked. A satisfying click. A good amount of tactile feedback. I'd highly recommend the huanos used in the main buttons for people who feels Omrons are too light for them, or they have issues with mis-clicks. You can rest your fingers on the switches all day long and never get a mis-click. Both left & right mouse buttons are equal in terms of actuation force required. No RMB being "lighter" than LMB, etc.

Side Buttons: Zowie can do better. Coming from the DA series, this is the one area of the mouse that I feel Razer beats Zowie on. The side buttons have a good amount of travel to them, and mine are still brand new. They are very easy to reach, and click...but feel mushy due to how much pre-travel they have. That being said, maybe zowie does this to prevent mis-clicking.. who knows. I know that due to how mushy they are, it makes it impossible to ever click on accidentally from just having your thumb in the wrong place. That being said though, they are still VERY usable and shaped well. There big enough to be reached & hit with ease... but for some people.. this may be the deal breaker for them. If your coming from a Deathadder, especially the 4G/2013... you will of been spoiled by that mouse. No mush. No pre-travel. Just satisfying/firm clicks. It's going to take some to time to get used to the difference. 6/10 if I had to rate them. Usable but improvement is definitely required.

Cord: Wow. And to think I used to believe razer cables were the best since they were the first I used which were braided. Turns out, maybe that's just a mouse "fashion" trend. Ha! Anyway, you'll never have to worry about fraying with a zowie cable since it's not braided. It's very ply'able, very soft, but seems durable. If you treat the mouse will, it will treat you well. It has far less friction on a mouse pad due to the lack of braiding... so if you don't use a bungee(or tape) then this will feel better to you than ANY braided cable ever will. It won't drag as much on your mouse pad, and the cable itself feels very light in comparison to your typical cable. Think of it this way, back in the day hardly any peripherals used a braided cable, and they all worked fine. So will this. Love it.

Scroll Wheel: Ok. One of the main areas of the mouse that people complain about. I am not one of them. The scroll wheel feels very defined, and tactile to use. If I had to compare, this wheel feels very similar to the old DA 3 and 3.5G wheels. The DA2013 has gotten old and has developed some slop, so it's not safe to compare them really. That said, the mouse is still brand new so I'll have to update this post should I see any accidental scrolls in game. I bind jump to scroll down in CSGO so that could be a problem if it happens... BUT as it stands right now, the wheel itself feels good, positive... it's not one of those scroll wheels that are lightly moved. Each notch has definition, and it takes a decent amount of force input to spin the scroll wheel, but I like that honestly. My only issue is the notchs could be more defined. You can feel them just fine but not as satisfying as other mice with defined scroll wheels. I'd say it's average. Not bad. Not terribly good either. 7/10.

And that leaves me with the sensor/feeling: Well, considering I've only gotten to use this mouse within the desktop.. I don't have the full story BUT I've already noticed direct improvement or at least "perceived" improvement over the DA2013 and it's sensor. It feels more raw. It doesn't feel as "floaty" as my DA2013 does. The first thing I noticed was, when moving the mouse VERY slowly.. the cursor movement seemed more fluid. Not nearly as "jumpy". When I would move my DA very slowly @ my 800 DPI setting.. the cursor would often seem like it was "skipping" along. With the EC2-A's 3310 -- it's fluid in movement. As far as precision goes, there's no way for me to know without spending a good amount of time in-game with this mouse..which is where I'm headed off too now.

I've tested the mouse with the mouse movement recorder on it's default 1000hz, and it is stable. Also, the LOD is PERFECT. I set my DA2013 up for surface calibration and I had my LOD as low as it would go.. and this mouse feels identical in terms of the LOD out of the box. Very low. Perfect for low sensitivity play.

So, sorry for the short novel here. I will update this post as time goes on, and as most say... you need to take every "first day review" with a healthy grain of salt. I may discover some gremlins, or I might not. It really is a crapshoot.. but I just wanted to get this info out there for anyone considering purchasing the EC2-A or the EC1-A for that matter as well.

PS: I don't mind the LED lit scroll wheel. Infact, the purple 800 dpi step looks rather awesome.









Edit 1: I forgot to mention the mouse feet. SO MUCH BETTER than the deathadders. Much better glide. Absolutely no issue with "catching" on my goliathus. This mouse glides so effortlessly.. so combined with the fact that zowie gives you a spare set.. I have to rate the glide and the mouse feet a 10 out of 10. The thing that can change my score is how fast the feet wear out.. so we'll see. I don't know how anyone could not like these large feet honestly. This mouse is on another level from the deathadder in terms of glide.


----------



## KFieLd

Enotus Mouse Test

Mouse: @msmouse.inf,%hid.mousedevice%;HID-compliant mouse

Model: Zowie EC-2A

Resolution: 800 dpi

Polling speed: 996 Hz (If set to 500hz, I get 500 exactly every time I test)

Max speed: 1.82 m/s (57217 points/s) \good\ (This is not the max tracking speed... this is only how fast I moved the mouse during the test)

Precision: 99.8 % (0.15 m/s) \excellent\

Smoothness: 8.1 % \ok\ (5% at 500hz polling)

Debug data: [('58', '1.00'), ('58', '0.95'), ('59', '1.00'), ('58', '1.02'), ('57', '1.07'), ('50', '0.92'), ('57', '0.99'), ('57', '1.02'), ('57', '0.96'), ('55', '0.99')]

Deathadder 2013

Polling goes from 985 to 1015.. not sure if thats better or worse. The Zowie stays very consistent around 995-1000hz.

Smoothness anywhere around 11.5% to 14%.

Precision: 98.5% was the best result I got.

Anywhere, not real sure how much faith I should put into this program. The ECA was more consistent across the board however.

UPDATE: I am getting much better results with the mouse set to 500hz polling rate. Smoothness has went down by 3-4% and polling is stable at 500hz every time I test. Is this normal? This is with the zowie of course. I think I will be leaving it at 500hz. The mouse seems more precise/controllable at 500hz. 1000hz seems almost like acceleration even though I know it isn't. The only way I can describe it is as if I have more "control" over the cursor.


----------



## kicksome

Are there any other mice with very similar shape and size of the ec2-a? I'm sick of the dodgy mouse wheel this one has


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KFieLd*
> 
> Enotus Mouse Test
> 
> Mouse: @msmouse.inf,%hid.mousedevice%;HID-compliant mouse
> 
> Model: Zowie EC-2A
> 
> Resolution: 800 dpi
> 
> Polling speed: 996 Hz (If set to 500hz, I get 500 exactly every time I test)
> 
> Max speed: 1.82 m/s (57217 points/s) \good\
> 
> Precision: 99.8 % (0.15 m/s) \excellent\
> 
> Smoothness: 8.1 % \ok\ (5% at 500hz polling)
> 
> Debug data: [('58', '1.00'), ('58', '0.95'), ('59', '1.00'), ('58', '1.02'), ('57', '1.07'), ('50', '0.92'), ('57', '0.99'), ('57', '1.02'), ('57', '0.96'), ('55', '0.99')]
> 
> Deathadder 2013
> 
> Polling goes from 985 to 1015.. not sure if thats better or worse. The Zowie stays very consistent around 995-1000hz.
> 
> Smoothness anywhere around 11.5% to 14%.
> 
> Precision: 98.5% was the best result I got.
> 
> Anywhere, not real sure how much faith I should put into this program. The ECA was more consistent across the board however.
> 
> UPDATE: I am getting much better results with the mouse set to 500hz polling rate. Smoothness has went down by 3-4% and polling is stable at 500hz every time I test. Is this normal? This is with the zowie of course. I think I will be leaving it at 500hz. The mouse seems more precise/controllable at 500hz. 1000hz seems almost like acceleration even though I know it isn't. The only way I can describe it is as if I have more "control" over the cursor.


This is the type of data I've been looking for. Have you experienced anything similar to what I have using the EC2-A compared to the DA 2013? I have the EC1-A, but it feels like micro-movements do not even track (400/800 DPI @ 1000Hz), and the DA 2013 feels 100x better.


----------



## KFieLd

Not so far no. For reference, I play CSGO at 800 DPI /1.75 in game sens..and I'm now using 500hz polling instead of 1000hz. I just got done playing CSGO for the last 3-4 hours.. all game-modes. The very first game I joined with this mouse was a typical DM session, and I went 50/12. I had to lower my sensitivity from the DA2013 set at 800 DPI. I went from 2 in game sens to 1.75 ... Aiming feels effortless. Tracking is EXCELLENT. And I mean excellent. I find it so much easier staying locked on peoples heads while moving. The one thing I'm having to get used to is the increased glide of the zowie feet over my deathadders...and of course I'm still not quite there. But the place I noticed the biggest difference was when using pistols, and going for head shots with a USP, 5.7, Deagle, etc. It just seemed effortless. I think the lower weight of the zowie is certainly contributing to the change I am seeing.

When I first started experimenting in windows, the mouse felt "loose" when set to 1000 polling rate. For whatever reason. When I switched the mouse to 500, I immediately felt more in-control of my movements with it, that's the best way I can describe it. So far that is the only odd thing I have noticed. My DA2013 @ 1000hz did not feel "loose" like this.

The only thing I'm having trouble with at the moment is AWP flick-shots. I'm over-aiming a bit... but I contribute that due to the increased glide, and the fact I've only gotten 4 hours with the mouse under my belt.

Edit: I'd also like to make note of the fact that so far during gaming, I've had no issues with maintaining grip on this mouse once my hands start to get moistened up with sweat (albeit I don't sweat much at all). I can do fast flicks without losing control of the mouse. I originally thought the coating was going to be too smooth to maintain a firm grip on, but I'm happy to report that wasn't the case. Time will tell though.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KFieLd*
> 
> Not so far no. For reference, I play CSGO at 800 DPI /1.75 in game sens..and I'm now using 500hz polling instead of 1000hz. I just got done playing CSGO for the last 3-4 hours.. all game-modes. The very first game I joined with this mouse was a typical DM session, and I went 50/12. I had to lower my sensitivity from the DA2013 set at 800 DPI. I went from 2 in game sens to 1.75 ... Aiming feels effortless. Tracking is EXCELLENT. And I mean excellent. I find it so much easier staying locked on peoples heads while moving. The one thing I'm having to get used to is the increased glide of the zowie feet over my deathadders...and of course I'm still not quite there. But the place I noticed the biggest difference was when using pistols, and going for head shots with a USP, 5.7, Deagle, etc. It just seemed effortless. I think the lower weight of the zowie is certainly contributing to the change I am seeing.
> 
> When I first started experimenting in windows, the mouse felt "loose" when set to 1000 polling rate. For whatever reason. When I switched the mouse to 500, I immediately felt more in-control of my movements with it, that's the best way I can describe it. So far that is the only odd thing I have noticed. My DA2013 @ 1000hz did not feel "loose" like this.
> 
> The only thing I'm having trouble with at the moment is AWP flick-shots. I'm over-aiming a bit... but I contribute that due to the increased glide, and the fact I've only gotten 4 hours with the mouse under my belt.
> 
> Edit: I'd also like to make note of the fact that so far during gaming, I've had no issues with maintaining grip on this mouse once my hands start to get moistened up with sweat (albeit I don't sweat much at all). I can do fast flicks without losing control of the mouse. I originally thought the coating was going to be too smooth to maintain a firm grip on, but I'm happy to report that wasn't the case. Time will tell though.


Weird, I had to up the sensitivity going from DA -> EC1-A, and I put the replacement skates on since they seemed to have less friction, hoping that would help. The way the sensor is implemented or whatever, the EC1-A just feels less precise than the DA 2013. I have NOT yet tried 500 Hz though, but I'm really doubtful that will make a difference.


----------



## KFieLd

I would try it and see if you notice the same thing I did. I felt more precise at 500hz. Idk why.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KFieLd*
> 
> I would try it and see if you notice the same thing I did. I felt more precise at 500hz. Idk why.


Alright, going to do so now. Try out 1000 hz and see if it felt like I said if possible. I also changed the LOD to the "Original Setting", since coming from a DA 2013, which has higher LOD by default since I don't use 'Surface Calibration'. Also, I mainly raised the sensitivity due to the DPI stages being off by 15-20 dpi on the EC1-A, and the DA 2013 being ~410 dpi when set to 400.


----------



## KFieLd

I haven't had a chance to re-test 1000hz yet, but I'm still really curious as to why this mouse feels more "loose" at the 1000hz rate compared to 500. I have exclusively used 1000hz on my deathadders for like the past 3 years or so. I never got the sensation that 1000 felt "faster" than 500 with those mice. Kind of confused honestly. I want to use 1000 because even though it may not be noticeable, the fact remains than 1ms is better than 2ms.. but if the mouse feels more precise & controllable TO ME at 500hz.... ugh.

Edit: Ok, I just put my mouse back to 1000hz ... and very slow adjustments are tracking fine for me. Is that what you wanted to know?

Maybe my issue is purely placebo. I really don't know. Will my sensitivity change between 500/1000? At all, even a minute amount? I'm gonna leave it at 1000 for the time being and do some more in-game tests.

Here are some movement recorder tests of 500hz and 1000hz

500:

http://s30.postimg.org/3yuuoupch/500hz_test.png

1000:

http://s12.postimg.org/i83dv5ivx/1000hz_test.png

I didn't resize them, so rather than embedding a 1080p sized picturre on the forum, just goto the links.

Anyone see anything wrong with either of those? They both look fine to me. I'm just really curious as to why 500hz feels more controllable. I'd rather be using 1000hz since that is the default setting for the mouse.

If it means anything, I currently am using a 120hz monitor. Keep in mind, the difference I am describing is very subtle.


----------



## zwacki

I noticed a difference as well and switched to 500hz right away.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KFieLd*
> 
> I haven't had a chance to re-test 1000hz yet, but I'm still really curious as to why this mouse feels more "loose" at the 1000hz rate compared to 500. I have exclusively used 1000hz on my deathadders for like the past 3 years or so. I never got the sensation that 1000 felt "faster" than 500 with those mice. Kind of confused honestly. I want to use 1000 because even though it may not be noticeable, the fact remains than 1ms is better than 2ms.. but if the mouse feels more precise & controllable TO ME at 500hz.... ugh.
> 
> Edit: Ok, I just put my mouse back to 1000hz ... and very slow adjustments are tracking fine for me. Is that what you wanted to know?
> 
> Maybe my issue is purely placebo. I really don't know. Will my sensitivity change between 500/1000? At all, even a minute amount? I'm gonna leave it at 1000 for the time being and do some more in-game tests.
> 
> Here are some movement recorder tests of 500hz and 1000hz
> 
> 500:
> 
> http://s30.postimg.org/3yuuoupch/500hz_test.png
> 
> 1000:
> 
> http://s12.postimg.org/i83dv5ivx/1000hz_test.png
> 
> I didn't resize them, so rather than embedding a 1080p sized picturre on the forum, just goto the links.
> 
> Anyone see anything wrong with either of those? They both look fine to me. I'm just really curious as to why 500hz feels more controllable. I'd rather be using 1000hz since that is the default setting for the mouse.
> 
> If it means anything, I currently am using a 120hz monitor. Keep in mind, the difference I am describing is very subtle.


Must be because of unstable polling rate. So far, most 3310 and 3988s cant hold as stable of a polling rate at 1000 as at 500. Am010 and 3366 can, for example. 3050 should also be better at it.


----------



## qsxcv

with proper firmware one can have stable 1000 with any sensor

note that the 3090 is difficult to make good firmware for though, since it has uses only 8bits for storing motion counts. so in order for it to not prematurely neg accel for the higher dpi steps, the mcu must read and clear the motion registers more than once every millisecond. and for whatever reason apparently many odms can't write good firmware where the extra motion register reads don't interfere with usb stuff. well that's my understanding of if anyway...

for mice with more modern sensors which use 12bits (305x, am010, 3320) or 16bits (9500,9800,3310,3988,3366), there is no excuse for not having firmware that's stable


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> with proper firmware one can have stable 1000 with any sensor
> 
> note that the 3090 is difficult to make good firmware for though, since it has uses only 8bits for storing motion counts. so in order for it to not prematurely neg accel for the higher dpi steps, the mcu must read and clear the motion registers more than once every millisecond. and for whatever reason apparently many odms can't write good firmware where the extra motion register reads don't interfere with usb stuff. well that's my understanding of if anyway...
> 
> for mice with more modern sensors which use 12bits (305x, am010, 3320) or 16bits (9500,9800,3310,3988,3366), there is no excuse for not having firmware that's stable


Indeed, the 9800 family sensors should most definitely have the proper hardware to do it. I mean Logitech pulled it off with g402's am010, even though it's technically a weaker sensor. It's just that, like you said, most implementations fail to do it. 965-970-980-990-1000-992-970 etc etc, for example, is not stable.
People fail to realize this and give praise to 3310 where it's not due. 3310/3988, for example, are very capable sensors, but most manufacturers can't seem to squeeze out it's potential. I mean I haven't tested every unit and mouse with these sensors, but enough to see that this is becoming a pattern.


----------



## KFieLd

I switched back to 500hz.. leaving it there. At the end of the day it's not going to make me better/worse regardless if I'm using 500 or 1000. Plenty of professional players still use 500hz and do just fine lol.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Indeed, the 9800 family sensors should most definitely have the proper hardware to do it. I mean Logitech pulled it off with g402's am010, even though it's technically a weaker sensor. It's just that, like you said, most implementations fail to do it. 965-970-980-990-1000-992-970 etc etc, for example, is not stable.
> People fail to realize this and give praise to 3310 where it's not due. 3310/3988, for example, are very capable sensors, but most manufacturers can't seem to squeeze out it's potential. I mean I haven't tested every unit and mouse with these sensors, but enough to see that this is becoming a pattern.


no no no no no
http://www.overclock.net/t/1577033/question-about-mouse-input-polling-rate/0_100#post_24511221


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> no no no no no
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1577033/question-about-mouse-input-polling-rate/0_100#post_24511221


Well, most mice feel unstable and the movements don't feel fluid. Logitech's sensors feel fluid and stable + my aim is more stable + I make more natural movements and it's easier to keep up with erratic movements. You don't have to measure this once you get accustomed to it. The fact remains that many mice are unstable at 1000 hz or they don't make a good job on the implementation which leads to unstability. And yes, 3310 and 3988 are capable technically to get more or less (or at least way more) balanced/stable 1000hz.

You don't have to agree with me, but facts are facts. No matter how you present them or approach the explanation.


----------



## qsxcv

when you see a mouse give numbers like 980,970,1010,etc on your computer

if you took the same mouse and plugged it into my computer or any other with stable usb report timing, you'll see 1000,999,1000,1001,etc...

it's not because of the mouse

mouse do not affect polling stability AT ALL. this isnt something to agree or disagree about. it's a fact about how usb works; polls are initiated by the host

the only thing mice can do is choose to not respond to polls. see the evga x3 link in the link above.

what mousemovementrecroder, mousetester,dimr,etc show is not the polling but the timing of when the usb reports are translated by the computer into rawinput messages or whatever. polling itself is extremely stable; i've look on my oscilloscope and there's <5nanosecond jitter in the timing of the usb communications. the reason we see so much jitter in mouseteser and whatever is because the time it takes for the rest of the stack (mobo hardware, windows) isnt constant, thats where the 970,980,1020,1030,etc... fluctuations come from

if you see something like 1007,1030,960,520,1039,480,979
in mousemovementrecorder
or equivalently
1,1,1,2,1,2,1
in a mousetester interval plot

that means the mouse is skipping reports. this is normal behavior for low speed motion since the mouse doesnt always have data to report. but if youre moving consistently and still see skipped reports, that means the firmware is not good. e.g. torq x3 and many other 3090 mice.
this sort of thing is the ONLY issue with firmware that you can determine from mousemovementrecorder Hz's or mousetester interval plots. again, small deviations from 1000 like 960hz in mousemovementrecorder or equivalently a few 10s of us jitter in mousetester are due to your computer


----------



## KFieLd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> when you see a mouse give numbers like 980,970,1010,etc on your computer
> 
> if you took the same mouse and plugged it into my computer or any other with stable usb report timing, you'll see 1000,999,1000,1001,etc...
> 
> it's not because of the mouse
> 
> mouse do not affect polling stability AT ALL. this isnt something to agree or disagree about. it's a fact about how usb works; polls are initiated by the host
> 
> the only thing mice can do is choose to not respond to polls. see the evga x3 link in the link above.
> 
> what mousemovementrecroder, mousetester,dimr,etc show is not the polling but the timing of when the usb reports are translated by the computer into rawinput messages or whatever. polling itself is extremely stable; i've look on my oscilloscope and there's <5nanosecond jitter in the timing of the usb communications. the reason we see so much jitter in mouseteser and whatever is because the time it takes for the rest of the stack (mobo hardware, windows) isnt constant, thats where the 970,980,1020,1030,etc... fluctuations come from
> 
> if you see something like 1007,1030,960,520,1039,480,979
> in mousemovementrecorder
> or equivalently
> 1,1,1,2,1,2,1
> in a mousetester interval plot
> 
> that means the mouse is skipping reports. this is normal behavior for low speed motion since the mouse doesnt always have data to report. but if youre moving consistently and still see skipped reports, that means the firmware is not good. e.g. torq x3 and many other 3090 mice.
> this sort of thing is the ONLY issue with firmware that you can determine from mousemovementrecorder Hz's or mousetester interval plots. again, small deviations from 1000 like 960hz in mousemovementrecorder or equivalently a few 10s of us jitter in mousetester are due to your computer


Well, if you can take a moment and look at the screenshots I took of movement recorder, do you see anything that stands out to you?


----------



## qsxcv

the mouse is fine at either setting. your system has a bit of jitter (10s of microseconds)
read more here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1550666/usb-polling-precision/0_100

for anyone who thinks the 500hz pictures looks more stable:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> yup and the same principles apply to sensor framerate vs usb polling
> this is not the correct way to look at things.
> 
> jitter/small scale stability should be measured in units of time.
> in mousemovementrecorder (or whatever) the hz value is actually just the inverse of the previous polling period. actually this number is pretty meaningless as frequency isn't well defined when you're just considering one interval.
> 
> so seeing a 994hz in mousemovementrecorder actually means there was a 1.006ms polling period which is 6us off the perfect value of 1ms.
> 
> now for 500hz/2ms polling, if you have a 2.006ms polling period, mousemovementrecorder would show 1000/2.006 = 498.5hz so 498 or 499hz, which looks a lot closer to 500hz than 994hz does to 1000hz


----------



## KFieLd

Yea that's what I thought. I've skimmed through that other thread but honestly it's kind of above my knowledge level. Is there anything I can really do about the jitter? My system is pretty bare bones at the moment. In fact it got a full reformat about a month ago. I don't know how much difference that makes though.

Another thing I want to mention is the fact that while using the 500hz setting on the mouse, I get better results for both precision and smoothing in Enotus Mouse Tester. This is another reason why I've decided to just leave it alone. All in all I haven't had any issues while gaming with this mouse, and it's been performing wonderfully.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> the mouse is fine at either setting. your system has a bit of jitter (10s of microseconds)
> read more here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1550666/usb-polling-precision/0_100
> 
> for anyone who thinks the 500hz pictures looks more stable:


Could I test USB 2.0 vs 3.0 in the same matter? I've noticed my mouse feels a lot slower when using USB 2.0.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Could I test USB 2.0 vs 3.0 in the same matter? I've noticed my mouse feels a lot slower when using USB 2.0.


I think you should as I'd be interested in the results.

I imagine it wouldn't matter so much as it should be down to what the computer can process, right?


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KFieLd*
> 
> Yea that's what I thought. I've skimmed through that other thread but honestly it's kind of above my knowledge level. Is there anything I can really do about the jitter? My system is pretty bare bones at the moment. In fact it got a full reformat about a month ago. I don't know how much difference that makes though.


i think quite a few people have found that disable cpu c-states and other power saving stuff in bios helps.
no idea how noticeable changes in this are. haggard suspects that any jitter is magnified in actual game situations, which seems reasonable, but still we don't know by how much.
Quote:


> Another thing I want to mention is the fact that while using the 500hz setting on the mouse, I get better results for both precision and smoothing in Enotus Mouse Tester. This is another reason why I've decided to just leave it alone. All in all I haven't had any issues while gaming with this mouse, and it's been performing wonderfully.


enotus is really kind of outdated/inaccurate.
precision should not be affected at all by 500hz/1000hz. remember that measurements have error.
smoothness doesn't really mean much. it's not really fair to compare 500hz vs 1000hz results. you can sort of use it to compare two different mice, both at 500hz or 1000hz.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> I think you should as I'd be interested in the results.
> 
> I imagine it wouldn't matter so much as it should be down to what the computer can process, right?


I'm not exactly sure, was hoping @qsxcv could shed some light on that subject. I really don't know how or why, but USB 2.0 feels slow on my computer. My USB 2.0/3.0 ports are native as well.


----------



## qsxcv

what prompted you to notice that?


----------



## Houser

So....My ec1-A arrived yesterdasy after trying the ec2 wich was too small for my hand.
It feels good in the hand...not fully palm grip because i have la 21 cm long palm.
The same sensor wich i allready tested in CsGO, is stable but i think i need more time with it to acomodate.
I have a intelli 3.0 wich has moded sleeve cable and a suit made from carbon fiber foil.
The mlt04 feels for me the best sensor, maybe is also placebo, in fact i am thinking to swich the sensors (to put the mlt04 inside the ec1)
Did anybody try it??...because i am not so profi, i know to do sleeve and micro swich changing....


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> what prompted you to notice that?


Not sure if you're referring to me or someone else?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i think quite a few people have found that disable cpu c-states and other power saving stuff in bios helps.
> no idea how noticeable changes in this are. haggard suspects that any jitter is magnified in actual game situations, which seems reasonable, but still we don't know by how much.
> enotus is really kind of outdated/inaccurate.
> precision should not be affected at all by 500hz/1000hz. remember that measurements have error.
> smoothness doesn't really mean much. it's not really fair to compare 500hz vs 1000hz results. you can sort of use it to compare two different mice, both at 500hz or 1000hz.


I wasn't basing my opinion on any of those measurements, but by simple desktop feel, making quick movements and making slow movements. I noticed this that I performed better at 500 hz on all mice but g303 and g402. My moves were way more stable and natural.
I realize this is subjective, but i've seen this confirmed all over. Especially on the 3090s. I've discussed this with woll3(playing in the same team) and he was also saying that on most 3310 the use of 500 hz was preferable. The funny thing is I've always used 1000 hz and suddenly 500 feels more natural.

Still, bad implementations perform worse 10 times out of 10. So, how do you 'force' a constant 1000 hz on the usb port making the mouse respond more consistently? I believe even if you fix this, it's still down to implementation, which was my original point. I don't know how to explain technically since I'm no hrdware engineer, but I can definitely feel the difference. Again, I admit this is based on opinion, so I'm not pulling a MaxK here (huehue).


----------



## KFieLd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> I wasn't basing my opinion on any of those measurements, but by simple desktop feel, making quick movements and making slow movements. I noticed this that I performed better at 500 hz on all mice but g303 and g402. My moves were way more stable and natural.
> I realize this is subjective, but i've seen this confirmed all over. Especially on the 3090s. I've discussed this with woll3(playing in the same team) and he was also saying that on most 3310 the use of 500 hz was preferable. The funny thing is I've always used 1000 hz and suddenly 500 feels more natural.
> 
> Still, bad implementations perform worse 10 times out of 10. So, how do you 'force' a constant 1000 hz on the usb port making the mouse respond more consistently? I believe even if you fix this, it's still down to implementation, which was my original point. I don't know how to explain technically since I'm no hrdware engineer, but I can definitely feel the difference. Again, I admit this is based on opinion, so I'm not pulling a MaxK here (huehue).


Same exact conclusion I came to with this mouse. For whatever reason 500hz feels more natural/controllable. It's a subtle difference but I mean... I noticed it immediately the very first time I switched the mouse over to 500hz as I was learning all the button holds that allow you to change settings on Zowie mice.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KFieLd*
> 
> Same exact conclusion I came to with this mouse. For whatever reason 500hz feels more natural/controllable. It's a subtle difference but I mean... I noticed it immediately the very first time I switched the mouse over to 500hz as I was learning all the button holds that allow you to change settings on Zowie mice.


I have this issue with many mice. Especially 3090 and 3310 ones. I feel like a junkie learning how to use a controller sometimes with 1000 hz. Like when there is unexpected vertical movements, it feels like that.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> I wasn't basing my opinion on any of those measurements,


i dont really care about your opinion

when you say this
Quote:


> It's just that, like you said, most implementations fail to do it. 965-970-980-990-1000-992-970 etc etc, for example, is not stable.


you're implying that those fluctuations are because of the mouse.
this is not true, as i've explained probably 3x times by now. as have haggard in his posts


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i dont really care about your opinion
> 
> when you say this
> you're implying that those fluctuations are because of the mouse.
> this is not true, as i've explained probably 3x times by now. as have haggard in his posts


I just corrected myself and asked a simple honest question - how do you force it to be more stable then?

All I got was your "i dont care". That's such a nice answer.

If 500 hz feels more stable then why does it show up stable on a mousetester? Like it doesn't fluctuate.
How do you measure this, then - if at all?


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Could I test USB 2.0 vs 3.0 in the same matter? I've noticed my mouse feels a lot slower when using USB 2.0.


You should try going through this guide and see if you can get your USB 2 working a bit faster. I had a problem on a motherboard where using ps/2 lagged the entire system, especially when a mouse was plugged in. If there's a bios update for your board, you could try that as well. Try the mouse also on a different PC or even laptop if you can to see if the issue is with your computer. If it's the same on another setup, then you should for sure RMA as it's a great mouse and you got nothing to lose from doing so. Worst case scenario they send it back to you.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etplayer*
> 
> You should try going through this guide and see if you can get your USB 2 working a bit faster. I had a problem on a motherboard where using ps/2 lagged the entire system, especially when a mouse was plugged in. If there's a bios update for your board, you could try that as well. Try the mouse also on a different PC or even laptop if you can to see if the issue is with your computer. If it's the same on another setup, then you should for sure RMA as it's a great mouse and you got nothing to lose from doing so. Worst case scenario they send it back to you.


Just updated my ASUS Z97-AR to the BIOS update from last week, it did feel a little better I guess, could of been placebo. Still having the issue where it feels like it doesn't track 100% of the time, mostly those tiny movements. Cleaned the sensor, put the replacement skates (less friction), formatted, etc.


----------



## ftwknx

Hey guys. I was wondering if I should go for EC1-a or EC2-a. My hand is around 19.5 cm and I'm using something between claw and fingertip grip, but might as well go for palm grip if needed. I'm only playing from my wrist so i use kinda high sensitivity (2.7 with 400 dpi).

I heard EC1-a's sensor is not as precise as the EC2-a's one because the ec1-a is bigger and sensor's position is not the same. Is it true?


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ftwknx*
> 
> Hey guys. I was wondering if I should go for EC1-a or EC2-a. My hand is around 19.5 cm and I'm using something between claw and fingertip grip, but might as well go for palm grip if needed. I'm only playing from my wrist so i use kinda high sensitivity (2.7 with 400 dpi).
> 
> I heard EC1-a's sensor is not as precise as the EC2-a's one because the ec1-a is bigger and sensor's position is not the same. Is it true?


Size is personal preference.
Sensor location does play a role but the positions are close enough that going with the model that fits you the best will be overall the best for you.


----------



## Houser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ftwknx*
> 
> Hey guys. I was wondering if I should go for EC1-a or EC2-a. My hand is around 19.5 cm and I'm using something between claw and fingertip grip, but might as well go for palm grip if needed. I'm only playing from my wrist so i use kinda high sensitivity (2.7 with 400 dpi).
> 
> I heard EC1-a's sensor is not as precise as the EC2-a's one because the ec1-a is bigger and sensor's position is not the same. Is it true?


I had ec2-A witch was to small form my 20.5 cm hand...I played like 2 months with it...in claw grip.
So I've changed it with a ec1-A and with this one I can use a palm-claw hybrid grip. Because if I completely palm it is also small for me.
I didn't feel any difference about this 2 in terms of sensor position, if it is ...is really small, I cannot notice that.
If you play only from wrist..I think you should try za12 wich is like 125 length...like my ss. Sensei ( my friend using it for LOL) same wrist player.
If you want to full palm..than ec1 is the choice.


----------



## KFieLd

Ok, if you're primarily a claw user the EC2-A should be sizeable enough for you, but if you play palm at all I would recommend the EC1-A. I just got my EC2-A last week, and I was coming from a DA which even though the sizes are similar, the DA is wider. From the base of my palm to the tip of my middle finger is roughly 18cm. I have very small hands.. I'm actually a skinny dude. Anyway, with my grip style which is a hybrid between palm/finger tip... I use up ALL of the EC2-A's surface. There is maybe half a CM, if that.. of room left at the very edge of the main mouse buttons when palming the mouse. Now if I claw the mouse I have plenty of room left to spare. This mouse fills my small hand perfectly. So take from that what you will. You obviously have a larger hand than me.. so I'm not sure if you could palm this mouse at all, but you would be able to palm the EC1 just fine. However like I said, if you play claw, it shouldn't be an issue.

As far as sensor position goes on the EC2.... it feels perfect, to me. Keep in mind with the EC1-A you'll be getting a more heavy mouse. The EC2 is around 85-90G.

Personally if my hand was any larger, I would of had to send this mouse back but I ended up picking perfectly. It took me about 4 days to get used to the shape difference between this and the DA, but now that I have... it's so much better feeling. I'd rather have a mouse that's slightly big than too small.


----------



## ftwknx

Thanks guys.

I'm used to heavy mouses, I'm currently using A4Tech XL-740k and I didn't even remove the weights. Yes it feels a little bit heavy but I got used to it and if I remove them I can't aim the same.

@Houser why do you think ZA12 can help me? I'm playing CS GO btw, forgot to mention that.


----------



## Houser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ftwknx*
> 
> Thanks guys.
> 
> I'm used to heavy mouses, I'm currently using A4Tech XL-740k and I didn't even remove the weights. Yes it feels a little bit heavy but I got used to it and if I remove them I can't aim the same.
> 
> @Houser why do you think ZA12 can help me? I'm playing CS GO btw, forgot to mention that.


If you are fingertip player wich moves the mouse only from the wrist, it is better for you to grab the za series, like I sad I have a steelseries sensei at home wich is a similar ambidextrous mouse, using it for browsing, in the past played with it.
It is only a matter of shapes, they all are good mice, so you have a large variation of dimensions from zowie...and you can choose easily.
When I will be back from work I will make some photos with how I grab both mice.


----------



## coccosoids

Quick question: for someone with a palm size of ~17cm, who prefers a fingertip / claw grip, would you recommend the EC2-A?

If yes: why?!
If no: why?!

Thanks.

PS: I'm looking for a mouse for work, and middle click is important.


----------



## Sencha

Yeah you want the EC2...why?

cause you have small girly hands.


----------



## KFieLd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> Quick question: for someone with a palm size of ~17cm, who prefers a fingertip / claw grip, would you recommend the EC2-A?
> 
> If yes: why?!
> If no: why?!
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> PS: I'm looking for a mouse for work, and middle click is important.


Yes. The mouse should fit you perfectly. Buy it.


----------



## ftwknx

Alright but I don't really like ambidextrous mouses so I think I'm going to stick with EC1-A. I'm not really using fingertip grip, more like a claw grip, but as I said I can still palm the mouse. I palm when I wanna relax and my aim is still decent, though I can't really palm my current mouse since it's too small and I think this is why I always try to claw it. In competitions I always claw (I'm a semi-pro player).


----------



## vanir1337

Got a used EC2-A for ~30 bucks today. Perfect condition, full box, etc. The scrollwheel doesn't skip a single notch. The clicks are stiff compared to my last few mice. Overall it was really really worth it, as I love this shape (had an EC2-eVo a year ago but it started peeling and I couldn't be arsed to play with a peeling mouse).


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> Got a used EC2-A for ~30 bucks today. Perfect condition, full box, etc. The scrollwheel doesn't skip a single notch. The clicks are stiff compared to my last few mice. Overall it was really really worth it, as I love this shape (had an EC2-eVo a year ago but it started peeling and I couldn't be arsed to play with a peeling mouse).


Is the wheel easy to press? Is it usable as a third button?


----------



## KFieLd

Well coming from a deathadder, the scroll wheel button isn't hard to press... since they feel very similar in actuation. I don't have any other mice at the moment to really compare it to.. the only mice I have that are easier to use the scroll wheel button with are some of the older Logitech's like MX518/MX510. Overall, if your familiar with the Deathadder at all, it should feel relatively the same. I use it in game all the time. It's easy to press. Now easy to spam? Not exactly. .. but it's easily pressed when you need it.

The scroll wheel on this mouse reminds me heavily of the old DA 3.5G scroll wheel. They feel almost identical.


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Just updated my ASUS Z97-AR to the BIOS update from last week, it did feel a little better I guess, could of been placebo. Still having the issue where it feels like it doesn't track 100% of the time, mostly those tiny movements. Cleaned the sensor, put the replacement skates (less friction), formatted, etc.


Hm, I would RMA.. you really want one of these mice with a unit that works


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *etplayer*
> 
> Hm, I would RMA.. you really want one of these mice with a unit that works


I'm afraid they're going to say nothing is wrong and just send it right back, because according to others, it's just me needing to adjust to the mouse.


----------



## juleso

Where can I buy the original mouse feet or (something similair) that came on the EC1-A. I hate the extra replacement set in te box and the ones that are being sold (speedy skatez)


----------



## Houser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *juleso*
> 
> Where can I buy the original mouse feet or (something similair) that came on the EC1-A. I hate the extra replacement set in te box and the ones that are being sold (speedy skatez)


I am using corepad(made them rounded on edge ) because sadly hyperglide don't make for this model. They are Teflon and for me feels smooth and in the same time fast,not like the stock.


----------



## Eutheran

Have these been updated with reduced response lag? I know the ZA series is down to something like 4ms~ since when these came out they had delay of around 9ms~


----------



## coccosoids

Anyone with 17cm hands successfully using EC2-A with a fingertip grip?


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I'm afraid they're going to say nothing is wrong and just send it right back, because according to others, it's just me needing to adjust to the mouse.


If you have anywhere else to try it out, even a 'net cafe you should give it a go. That eliminates it being anything to do with other hardware or software, but you should be able to use the mouse normally so I expect it's not just you getting used to it.


----------



## KFieLd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> Anyone with 17cm hands successfully using EC2-A with a fingertip grip?


My hand is slightly larger (about 17.5) and I don't use finger-tip as my primary grip .. but I do use a hybrid of palm/finger-tip and it works perfect for me. I can finger-tip the mouse just fine. It will be the perfect size for you to do that as your main grip.


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KFieLd*
> 
> My hand is slightly larger (about 17.5) and I don't use finger-tip as my primary grip .. but I do use a hybrid of palm/finger-tip and it works perfect for me. I can finger-tip the mouse just fine. It will be the perfect size for you to do that as your main grip.


Thanks. Just one more detail: can you easily reach the middle click from a fingertip / hybrid grip? And would you say it is a soft or a hard click?


----------



## KFieLd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> Thanks. Just one more detail: can you easily reach the middle click from a fingertip / hybrid grip? And would you say it is a soft or a hard click?


It's reachable yes. About the same as any other mouse with this kind of layout. As far as click, it's not a softer click. It's not excessively stiff, but stiff enough so that it can't be misclicked at all. You have to be deliberate if you want to hit it. It feels the same as a deathadder's middle mouse click... so if you're familiar with deathadders at all, you'll know what to expect. The good thing about the EC2's scroll wheel is that it's fitted further towards the front end of the shell, so it's more natural to click instead of having to awkwardly bend your finger backwards to be able to press it. IE: You don't need too change your finger's position(or have to bend it) to use the scroll wheel.

So yes, it's a stiffer scroll click like a lot of gaming mice on the market.. but it's tactile and has solid actuation(isn't mushy).


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KFieLd*
> 
> It's reachable yes. About the same as any other mouse with this kind of layout. As far as click, it's not a softer click. It's not excessively stiff, but stiff enough so that it can't be misclicked at all. You have to be deliberate if you want to hit it. It feels the same as a deathadder's middle mouse click... so if you're familiar with deathadders at all, you'll know what to expect. The good thing about the EC2's scroll wheel is that it's fitted further towards the front end of the shell, so it's more natural to click instead of having to awkwardly bend your finger backwards to be able to press it. IE: You don't need too change your finger's position(or have to bend it) to use the scroll wheel.
> 
> So yes, it's a stiffer scroll click like a lot of gaming mice on the market.. but it's tactile and has solid actuation(isn't mushy).


Cool. Much appreciated. I'm thinking about it. I think I prefer a soft scroll (something like the Xornet). The fact that it's placed toward the front of the mouse worries me because with smaller hands it will make it difficult to reach in everyday use - I use the middle click quite often sometimes. I'm not familiar at all with the DA, so that's a bummer.


----------



## KFieLd

Don't get me wrong, the ec2-a's scroll wheel click is easy to use..and I use mine a lot as well and it never "fatigues" me in any way shape or form. My hand is only slightly larger than yours and I can use the scroll wheel for scrolling just fine without it being awkward. If you do any kind of gaming than preferably you'd want the scroll wheel closer to the front so it's EASIER to reach and use. Good luck.

Truthfully, the only gripe I have with the EC2 is the rear side-button. Both the side buttons are "mushy" but the rearward one feels even more so. I've gotten used to them but I'd still rather they be firm buttons. Other than the side buttons though, this is the best mouse I've ever used in terms of coating/feel and precision.


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KFieLd*
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the ec2-a's scroll wheel click is easy to use..and I use mine a lot as well and it never "fatigues" me in any way shape or form. My hand is only slightly larger than yours and I can use the scroll wheel for scrolling just fine without it being awkward. If you do any kind of gaming than preferably you'd want the scroll wheel closer to the front so it's EASIER to reach and use. Good luck.
> 
> Truthfully, the only gripe I have with the EC2 is the rear side-button. Both the side buttons are "mushy" but the rearward one feels even more so. I've gotten used to them but I'd still rather they be firm buttons. Other than the side buttons though, this is the best mouse I've ever used in terms of coating/feel and precision.


That's quite a statement. One more if you will... getting there!








Is the Zowie programmable in any way? For example could I use a third party utility to map the side buttons to the dpi switcher? Probably not, but thought I'd ask. I go a lot between a slow and a medium dpi - medium is for general, cursor pong between the two displays, while a low dpi helps with the ever so tiny adjustments I have to do while working in 3d.
And thank you.


----------



## KFieLd

Nope. That is the downside to Zowie mice, and one reason why you may want to go with a differrent company. The only adjustments you can make on the zowie are LOD and polling rate. You can set the LOD between 3 settings depending on your type of mouse pad, and can switch polling between 250/500/1000. You get 4 DPI settings, 400/800/1600/3200. Which is plenty really as long as you're willing to get used to it. All native settings obviously since the 3310 sensor is native in each 50 dpi step so zowie chose what they consider the "optimal" and most "practical" steps for their 3310 mice.

The DPI steps are pretty accurate too, more so than my Deathadder 2013 with it's avago 3988 sensor which is also a good sensor.

Really zowie mice are marketed towards the competitive gamer/lan player, where you only want the essentials, without all the added bloat. A lot of competitive gamers don't want to be messing with software especially at LAN competitions.. so zowie made the mice plug & play, and made the mice "optimal" out of the box, with some basic quality of life adjustments being able to be changed.

All of that said, you can still do everything you want on this mouse. It's not hard to change DPI.. just gotta hit the dpi button on the bottom of the mouse (which I feel is better since it's out of the way), and I fail to see why anyone would want or need higher than 3200 DPI for pretty much anything, especially gaming.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KFieLd*
> 
> I fail to see why anyone would want or need higher than 3200 DPI for pretty much anything, especially gaming.


Or more than 2000. Even for 4k.


----------



## Creizai

The old EC2 series was a great FPS mouse. It upped the quality of the wmo, imo, and 3.0 lines in a lot of areas. I found myself going to the older zowies when I was sticking to FPS games. However, for desktop use, RTS games, and work I would often rather have a different mice. After receiving the new EC2-A, it seems they have addressed majority of the problems that I ran into. I'm really considering order a 2nd one and swapping my Evo White shell.
*Zowie EC2 Evo White*
Pros

Perfect shape for switching between fingertip, claw and palm.
Good Weight
450dpi dpi step perfect
Perfect Lift off Distance
Amazing Cable
Crispy Mouse 1/2 clicks
Crispy Scroll wheel clicks
Quality Shell Feel (for the weight)
Side buttons Location is good
Problems

1150, and 2300 Steps
16-Click Scroll Wheel
LED on Scroll Wheel
Doesn't track on all non-mouse pad surfaces
Side buttons feel weak in comparison to crisp mouse 1/2
*Zowie EC2-a*
Pros

400, 800, 1600, 3200 dpi
24-Click Scroll Wheel
Tracks on a lot more non-mouse pad surfaces
Mouse 1/2/3 all feel crispier.
Side buttons feel slightly better.
Problems

LED on Scroll Wheel
Side buttons still could feel slightly better.
Going to 24-click lost the crispness of scroll clicks. (Still 24 > 16)


----------



## coccosoids

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creizai*
> 
> The old EC2 series was a great FPS mouse. It upped the quality of the wmo, imo, and 3.0 lines in a lot of areas. I found myself going to the older zowies when I was sticking to FPS games. However, for desktop use, RTS games, and work I would often rather have a different mice. After receiving the new EC2-A, it seems they have addressed majority of the problems that I ran into. I'm really considering order a 2nd one and swapping my Evo White shell.
> 
> *EC2 Evo White*
> Pros
> 
> Perfect shape for switching between fingertip, claw and palm.
> Good Weight
> 450dpi dpi step perfect
> Perfect Lift off Distance
> Amazing Cable
> Crispy Mouse 1/2 clicks
> Crispy Scroll wheel clicks
> Quality Shell Feel (for the weight)
> Side buttons Location is good
> Problems
> 
> 1150, and 2300 Steps
> 16-Click Scroll Wheel
> LED on Scroll Wheel
> Doesn't track on all non-mouse pad surfaces
> Side buttons feel weak in comparison to crisp mouse 1/2
> 
> *EC2-a*
> Pros
> 
> 400, 800, 1600, 3200 dpi
> 24-Click Scroll Wheel
> Tracks on a lot more non-mouse pad surfaces
> Mouse 1/2/3 all feel crispier.
> Side buttons feel slightly better.
> Problems
> 
> LED on Scroll Wheel
> Side buttons still could feel slightly better.
> Going to 24-click lost the crispness of scroll clicks. (Still 24 > 16)






So have you tried or not?!








Would you say the middle click is usable for work - I mean is it soft enough for prolonged use?
How big are your hands and what kind of grip do you use?


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> 
> So have you tried or not?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would you say the middle click is usable for work - I mean is it soft enough for prolonged use?
> How big are your hands and what kind of grip do you use?


Middle click feels slightly less pressure than the m1/m2 and it isn't' anywhere near as hard as the old AM. My hands are on the smaller size, with it measuring from the wrist to middle finger just a tad over 7 inches. I use fingertip and palm for desktop use and Claw / Palm Hybrid for FPS gaming.


----------



## Eutheran

I just got an ec1a and it jumps every time I lift and place the mouse down after using the scroll wheel. Any ideas on how to fix this?


----------



## etplayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eutheran*
> 
> I just got an ec1a and it jumps every time I lift and place the mouse down after using the scroll wheel. Any ideas on how to fix this?


Expect you are jogging the mouse wheel when it is half way through clicks, the mouse wheel doesn't "phantom" scroll but it can be moved easily by touching it, I think that's probably the same as you experience, maybe the wheel is a little loose as well? I'd try re-assembling it and see if that does it.


----------



## pinobot

Why don't you like a 16 steps scroll wheel?


----------



## coccosoids

Are they close to a refresh? I just saw that it's been pulled from almost every store here.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Hello guys. Do the mouse feet wear fast? I've read some complains about it.


----------



## Eutheran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Hello guys. Do the mouse feet wear fast? I've read some complains about it.


they are thinner than normal but I doubt that this will happen


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Hello guys. Do the mouse feet wear fast? I've read some complains about it.


I can't really comment on if they get worn out quickly in terms of having a slower glide, but cosmetically they do look pretty beat up rather quickly. Most likely nothing to worry about


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I can't really comment on if they get worn out quickly in terms of having a slower glide, but cosmetically they do look pretty beat up rather quickly. Most likely nothing to worry about


Asking since I got an offer to snap it second hand for 40 euros which is good for my country. Coming from a DA which is too big for my hand(17,5cm) . Does any of you have both and can potentially give me comparison pictures of size ?


----------



## coccosoids

Just buy it. At 40E it's a steal. Then write back your thoughts on it. We've got comparable hands sizes


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> Just buy it. At 40E it's a steal. Then write back your thoughts on it. We've got comparable hands sizes


Debating between it and the G303. Will have to make up my mind at some point.


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Debating between it and the G303. Will have to make up my mind at some point.


For what is worth - I bought a G303 about two weeks ago. Like I said ~17cm hands, with a fingertip / claw mutant grip. Arranged to sell the same day to a mate from work. It was just not usable for me.

I could direct you to this thread: my mouse thread, where I speak more about mice from my experience.


----------



## KFieLd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Asking since I got an offer to snap it second hand for 40 euros which is good for my country. Coming from a DA which is too big for my hand(17,5cm) . Does any of you have both and can potentially give me comparison pictures of size ?


If you find the deathadder slightly too big for your hand, an EC2-A will fit you perfectly. My hands are of similar size, and I as well always thought the DA was just a tad bigger than I'd like.. The EC2-A is a tiny bit shorter in length, and this mouse fit my hand like a glove. I mean, so perfectly that it feels like I had a mouse built and tailored to my hand specifically. Lol. I can palm it. Claw it. Fingertip grip it. Or any combo of those grips. The perfect shape and size for people with smaller hands. This is the first mouse I've owned that felt like an extension of my hand instead of a mouse when using it.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KFieLd*
> 
> If you find the deathadder slightly too big for your hand, an EC2-A will fit you perfectly. My hands are of similar size, and I as well always thought the DA was just a tad bigger than I'd like.. The EC2-A is a tiny bit shorter in length, and this mouse fit my hand like a glove. I mean, so perfectly that it feels like I had a mouse built and tailored to my hand specifically. Lol. I can palm it. Claw it. Fingertip grip it. Or any combo of those grips. The perfect shape and size for people with smaller hands. This is the first mouse I've owned that felt like an extension of my hand instead of a mouse when using it.


Yes,you do make a good point. The EC2-A sounds like the perfect fit for me. "Slightly too big" is a perfect explanation of how I feel with the DA. I can use it easily, I just can't quite control it though. Given that it dblclicks , I'm definitely considering heavily the EC2-A now.


----------



## hotwheels1997

I want ot ask y'all something. The guy selling an EC2-A second hand decided to up the price to 50 euros. He has used it for 4 months,on an unknown surface. A new one is 65 euros. Do you reckon I should go for the New or Second hand? What is the wear of these mice?


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I want ot ask y'all something. The guy selling an EC2-A second hand decided to up the price to 50 euros. He has used it for 4 months,on an unknown surface. A new one is 65 euros. Do you reckon I should go for the New or Second hand? What is the wear of these mice?


Go for new. For 15E, there's no point.
For new you get 10 or 14 days to return the product, if you don't like. You lose the delivery costs but that's it.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> Go for new. For 15E, there's no point.
> For new you get 10 or 14 days to return the product, if you don't like. You lose the delivery costs but that's it.


Not in my country....


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Not in my country....


Yeah, I know - right now there's a promotion here. You can stalk one out yourself. Then again, you could just risk the shipping costs, and if you find out it doesn't fit your grip - you still have the option to return it.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> Yeah, I know - right now there's a promotion here. You can stalk one out yourself. Then again, you could just risk the shipping costs, and if you find out it doesn't fit your grip - you still have the option to return it.


For which seller you're talking about?


----------



## 7Teku

Just ordered an EC1A, and well the scroll wheel rattles like a mofo. Ugh


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7Teku*
> 
> Just ordered an EC1A, and well the scroll wheel rattles like a mofo. Ugh


****. As far as I know that was an issue with the first production series of the ECxA, and they supposedly fixed it in the refresh. I think you can safely return it. I hate a rattling scroll wheel. What are your other thoughts?


----------



## 7Teku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> ****. As far as I know that was an issue with the first production series of the ECxA, and they supposedly fixed it in the refresh. I think you can safely return it. I hate a rattling scroll wheel. What are your other thoughts?


The side buttons are mushy af. LMB and RMB IMO feel worse than G100s. Mouse feet are bad (as all stock feet are though). Scroll wheel lights up (personal preference and can be removed).


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7Teku*
> 
> The side buttons are mushy af. LMB and RMB IMO feel worse than G100s. Mouse feet are bad (as all stock feet are though). Scroll wheel lights up (personal preference and can be removed).


Oh man. That's scary - I can't compare to g100s. But, I regard this mouse as the holy grail to be honest - by specs alone it looks perfect, considering all the issues I have with mice at the moment. I however am a little hesitant to commit, don't exactly know why.


----------



## KFieLd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7Teku*
> 
> Just ordered an EC1A, and well the scroll wheel rattles like a mofo. Ugh


Looks like an RMA is what you need. I can absolutely guarantee this is not "normal" for the current EC series. I've been using mine for about a month now, and there's no wobble. The wheel on my EC2 is actually set in place really well. No slop. I haven't had one accidental scroll in the month I've yet it so far. I haven't seen that "ghost scrolling" issue people have seen.

The only movement I can impart on the scroll wheel, is a tiny tiny bit of wiggle left & right if I physically push & pull on the scroll wheel... like less than a mm and I expect that this is completely normal for how zowie designs their shells. I have to physically take the mouse in my hand and with my thumb & index finger I have to try to "shake" the wheel to make this happen. It does NOT wiggle if I am using the mouse & scrolling as one normally would.

I don't find the mouse feet bad at all. As far as stock feet go, these are the best I've ever had on a mouse. The side buttons we agree on, very lackluster and have a healthy amount of pre-travel to them BUT... they function just fine and the clicks are light enough that using the side buttons A LOT wouldn't be fatiguing. I just hope Zowie improves on them in the future, ie: make them more like the DA's side buttons.. rigid but very light in actuation when pressed.

I actually like the LMB & RMB clicks. (Ok, not terribly a fan of the RMB's click) They feel much better than the clicks on my old deathadders... Stiffer yes...but can be spammed just as well AND have more tactile "feedback". They also "sound" better as well. More satisfying to me. Not the best I've used, but still good. Logitech generally has the best clicks, so I can agree with you there although I've never used the G100.

Edit: As far as the stock mouse feet go, they improved a lot when I had broke the mouse in after about a week of heavy use. Glide got better.

Also, I'd just like to point out how much I love the coating on this mouse. This sort of "lightly textured" plastic is almost satin like in feel. It's not gritty or coarse at all. It literally feels like air in your hand. To me, the shape, sensor and coating are the main selling features of this mouse. As they should be.


----------



## hotwheels1997

About to pull the trigger on a new EC2-A, on sale for 55 euros atm. Just as a confirmation for myself, has any of you done the switch DA--> EC2-A, how do you like it? Grip wise,is the identical? My DA has the worst build quality, so I know Zowie will be better there. (1.5yr usage, broken scroll,fraying cable,dblclick,70 euros OK







)
As a whole,has somebody even found the EC2-A for uncomfortable? Shape looks very universal.


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> About to pull the trigger on a new EC2-A, on sale for 55 euros atm. Just as a confirmation for myself, has any of you done the switch DA--> EC2-A, how do you like it? Grip wise,is the identical? My DA has the worst build quality, so I know Zowie will be better there. (1.5yr usage, broken scroll,fraying cable,dblclick,70 euros OK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> As a whole,has somebody even found the EC2-A for uncomfortable? Shape looks very universal.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*


Can't take any more of the lack of a scroll wheel. To make matters worse, when I click on the side bar,my DA dblclicks so I'm left with arrows to scroll down








A guy offered me 45 euros for his second hand one, but It was my birthday yesterday, 10 euros are more than worth it for a new product. Thx,will be ordering tonight, i'll tell you my opinion of it once it arrives.
EDIT : Paying only 10 euros of the total price anyways, my parents decided to chip in for no apparent reason.


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> About to pull the trigger on a new EC2-A, on sale for 55 euros atm. Just as a confirmation for myself, has any of you done the switch DA--> EC2-A, how do you like it? Grip wise,is the identical? My DA has the worst build quality, so I know Zowie will be better there. (1.5yr usage, broken scroll,fraying cable,dblclick,70 euros OK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> As a whole,has somebody even found the EC2-A for uncomfortable? Shape looks very universal.


Even better. I'm sure you will love the mouse. The Ec2-a is the one mouse I keep running back too.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> Even better. I'm sure you will love the mouse. The Ec2-a is the one mouse I keep running back too.


Nice,I really hope you're right. I had lost the itch to play just because of all the issues I had with my DA,size and fatigue because of it mainly.


----------



## coccosoids

Don't forget to share your feelings on the device once it ships. Congrats!


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> About to pull the trigger on a new EC2-A, on sale for 55 euros atm. Just as a confirmation for myself, has any of you done the switch DA--> EC2-A, how do you like it? Grip wise,is the identical? My DA has the worst build quality, so I know Zowie will be better there. (1.5yr usage, broken scroll,fraying cable,dblclick,70 euros OK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> As a whole,has somebody even found the EC2-A for uncomfortable? Shape looks very universal.


If you mean the da chroma/2013 then the grip is quite different. If you mean the shape, then ec2-a is a decent shape but a lot smaller than the da.it's a completely different mouse.

It should still fit you well though. Usually Zowie QC is worse than Razer's. I'm surprised why you havent rma'd your deathadder after 1,5 years? Don't you have warranty on it?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> If you mean the da chroma/2013 then the grip is quite different. If you mean the shape, then ec2-a is a decent shape but a lot smaller than the da.it's a completely different mouse.
> 
> It should still fit you well though. Usually Zowie QC is worse than Razer's. I'm surprised why you havent rma'd your deathadder after 1,5 years? Don't you have warranty on it?


No warranty. Shape wise,i've only heard it's very close to the DA. I want it to be smaller, that's my main idea. Small with a simular shape is what I'm after and I think the EC2-A should suffice. Razer with it's DA and dblclick has probably the worst % of failed units. Zowie got the scroll wheel figured out in the ECx-A series.
Grip:


----------



## ramraze

I
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> No warranty. Shape wise,i've only heard it's very close to the DA. I want it to be smaller, that's my main idea. Small with a simular shape is what I'm after and I think the EC2-A should suffice. Razer with it's DA and dblclick has probably the worst % of failed units. Zowie got the scroll wheel figured out in the ECx-A series.
> Grip:


In that case you should be fine with ec2-a.

Dude you should read how many people have fails with their zowie mice on this forum. It's unbelievable.
My point is it can happen to any mouse, but Zowie hs weaker QC.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> I
> In that case you should be fine with ec2-a.
> 
> Dude you should read how many people have fails with their zowie mice on this forum. It's unbelievable.
> My point is it can happen to any mouse, but Zowie hs weaker QC.


Problems of what sort? Tried to open my DA and fix ,it ain't happening. The plastic thing that connect the actual scroll wheel to the on the pcb that records movement is broken.


----------



## b0z0

Out of the 4 Ec2's mice I've owned. I've only had issues with one of them. The scroll wheel would randomly scroll. I put an RMA in, and it was replaced within 2 weeks


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> Out of the 4 Ec2's mice I've owned. I've only had issues with one of them. The scroll wheel would randomly scroll. I put an RMA in, and it was replaced within 2 weeks


I've read the sensitivity is different with the EC2-A compared to the DA for example because of sensor placement. Any confirmation?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> Out of the 4 Ec2's mice I've owned. I've only had issues with one of them. The scroll wheel would randomly scroll. I put an RMA in, and it was replaced within 2 weeks


Out of the 8 Deathadder Chroma/2013s I've owned, I've had issues with 1.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Out of the 8 Deathadder Chroma/2013s I've owned, I've had issues with 1.


Out of the 1 DA 2013 i've owned, I've had 3 issues with it.


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Out of the 8 Deathadder Chroma/2013s I've owned, I've had issues with 1.


Every DA I've owed had double click problems


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> Every DA I've owed had double click problems


Being soo undecissive, I ordered the G303 from the only store in my country that allows for a mouse to be returned. Will buy it and play with it for a week. If I don't find it fitting my hand PERFECTLY, I'll straight up order the EC2-A and call it a day. Too bad I can't order both at the same time . (aka if I like the G303,I'll stick to it and never try the EC2-A) .


----------



## Eutheran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Out of the 8 Deathadder Chroma/2013s I've owned, I've had issues with 1.


then why have you owned 8 of the same mouse in 2 years? Seems fishy to meeeeee.......


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I've read the sensitivity is different with the EC2-A compared to the DA for example because of sensor placement. Any confirmation?


Not sure about the sensor placement difference, but I do know the EC1-A/EC2-A runs at 15-20 DPI less than the stage you set it to. e.g: 400 DPI turns out to be 380-385 DPI, while my Deathadder 2013 was usually 400-415.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eutheran*
> 
> then why have you owned 8 of the same mouse in 2 years? Seems fishy to meeeeee.......


Check my sig, i've owned more than 30. I wanted to get used to the deathadder but I never did, so I kept returning the mouse in order to keep extending the time I coule use it. Once I gave up, second time I wanted to try again, and then third time as well, since I had changed my grip. But I'm still going to return my 8th now, since it doesn't work for me. The other mice I've tested in order to find a suitable mouse. Some of them I've played with longer.

I currently own Rival, G402, Castor, Zowie Am and 2x cm storm alcors


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Check my sig, i've owned more than 30. I wanted to get used to the deathadder but I never did, so I kept returning the mouse in order to keep extending the time I coule use it. Once I gave up, second time I wanted to try again, and then third time as well, since I had changed my grip. But I'm still going to return my 8th now, since it doesn't work for me. The other mice I've tested in order to find a suitable mouse. Some of them I've played with longer.
> 
> I currently own Rival, G402, Castor, Zowie Am and 2x cm storm alcors


Amazin must hate you . Will give a week on the G303 ,if i don't like it , EC2-A it is.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Amazin must hate you . Will give a week on the G303 ,if i don't like it , EC2-A it is.


Haha. I keep using local shops and switching around


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Haha. I keep using local shops and switching around


Just what I did. Except I'm doing it from the same shop,but a different person is buying it for me so that my name doesn't come up and they don't say i'm taking advantage of their policy. I want to play with the G303,just an itch. I know I'll enjoy the EC2-A more but I can't have a calm mind without trying both.
Just for some comparisons in size, this guy delivers one of the best videos on youtube. GO check him out.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Just what I did. Except I'm doing it from the same shop,but a different person is buying it for me so that my name doesn't come up and they don't say i'm taking advantage of their policy. I want to play with the G303,just an itch. I know I'll enjoy the EC2-A more but I can't have a calm mind without trying both.
> Just for some comparisons in size, this guy delivers one of the best videos on youtube. GO check him out.


I have to say after 30+ mice in 2 years I learned a lot but I'm even more confused than I was at the beginning. And I also learnt there is no perfect mouse, you always have to sacrifice somewhere, although a few came close (g402/g303/g502/da chroma/rival 100 etc) all of them had at least 1 game breaking fault for me.

Anyways, I still regret changing so much. I'm back to square one, but at least I know what I don't like.


----------



## dakuzo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> I have to say after 30+ mice in 2 years I learned a lot but I'm even more confused than I was at the beginning. And I also learnt there is no perfect mouse, you always have to sacrifice somewhere, although a few came close (g402/g303/g502/da chroma/rival 100 etc) all of them had at least 1 game breaking fault for me.
> 
> Anyways, I still regret changing so much. I'm back to square one, but at least I know what I don't like.


I feel the exact same way.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Finally pulled the trigger on one. Got express shipping and all,should be here in Wednestday. It'll be a rather busy day for me but I'll try to give you guys some impressions of the mouse for those with small hands and palm grip (17.5cm) .


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Finally pulled the trigger on one. Got express shipping and all,should be here in Wednestday. It'll be a rather busy day for me but I'll try to give you guys some impressions of the mouse for those with small hands and palm grip (17.5cm) .


Are you measuring from your palm to to the end of your middle finger?


----------



## Snakesoul

Hey everyone,

So i got back my EC1-A from RMA, they replaced it with a new one, i think main switches are a bit softer than the other model, and also my scroll wheel feels more tactile.
I left lod default (i mean out of the box), and just changed dpi to 800.
Should i leave polling rate at default or change it to 500?
Strange thing i notice while doing a quick test on cs source: If i leave sensitivity at 2 (this is the sensitivity i play with G400 -800cpi\2sens in game= +/- 32cm/360), the mouse feel more accurate, but i can't do the same cm\360º (so there goes my muscle memory...), if i change the sensitivity to do the same cm\360, the mouse feels inaccurate\loose?
Personally i don't like to set sensitivity with decimals, but to have the same 360/cm, i have to set it to 2.066 in game...
Any ideas why this happen?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Are you measuring from your palm to to the end of your middle finger?


Yes, from the first wrinkle on the wrist to the end of my middle finger.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Hey everyone,
> 
> So i got back my EC1-A from RMA, they replaced it with a new one, i think main switches are a bit softer than the other model, and also my scroll wheel feels more tactile.
> I left lod default (i mean out of the box), and just changed dpi to 800.
> Should i leave polling rate at default or change it to 500?
> Strange thing i notice while doing a quick test on cs source: If i leave sensitivity at 2 (this is the sensitivity i play with G400 -800cpi\2sens in game= +/- 32cm/360), the mouse feel more accurate, but i can't do the same cm\360º (so there goes my muscle memory...), if i change the sensitivity to do the same cm\360, the mouse feels inaccurate\loose?
> Personally i don't like to set sensitivity with decimals, but to have the same 360/cm, i have to set it to 2.066 in game...
> Any ideas why this happen?


The EC1-A doesn't have an ideal sensor position. There was a picture floating in the internet about it. The EC2-A has a much more centered sensor,while the EC1-A ,I think, has it in a more backwards position.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Yes, from the first wrinkle on the wrist to the end of my middle finger.
> The EC1-A doesn't have an ideal sensor position. There was a picture floating in the internet about it. The EC2-A has a much more centered sensor,while the EC1-A ,I think, has it in a more backwards position.


Hey Hotwheels1997, thanks for the input, never heard about that sensor position... So it's like cm alcor?


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Yes, from the first wrinkle on the wrist to the end of my middle finger.
> The EC1-A doesn't have an ideal sensor position. There was a picture floating in the internet about it. The EC2-A has a much more centered sensor,while the EC1-A ,I think, has it in a more backwards position.


Finally pulled the trigger huh. Im waiting to say "Told.you so."


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> Finally pulled the trigger huh. Im waiting to say "Told.you so."


Tomorrow bro.


----------



## Scrimstar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Finally pulled the trigger on one. Got express shipping and all,should be here in Wednestday. It'll be a rather busy day for me but I'll try to give you guys some impressions of the mouse for those with small hands and palm grip (17.5cm) .


u nvr considered the KPM?


----------



## espk

Which zowie mouse do I get if I want to mirror the Ec1 eVo as closely as possible, especially the coating? Is this even an option anymore? I returned an ec1a because the smooth coating was a pain to grip with the way I held my evo


----------



## hotwheels1997

Okay,wanted to give my impressions. First, it's the first mouse which I just put my hand on and it instantly felt comfortable. It fit my grip absolutely brilliantly . Have yet to play but will do soon. It's so comfortable I can't even explain. It's just a breaze to use it in windows + the coating is perfect match for the way my hand sweats, it sticks like glue.
Quality is superb. No rattling,scroll wheel works wonders,no skips,nothing.
Cable is the best i've had the pleasure to use.
The buttons are just amazing. I never misclick,but can spam very fast. The tactile feedback compared to the DA is a very good feeling.
tl;dr : Best mouse ever. Carved for my hand.
P.S. One little annoyance. RMB is harder to press than LMB.


----------



## Pa12a

Hit my EC2-A against the edge of my keyboard during a swipe in QL, scroll wheel is broken and rattles like a snake. Youch.

I feel like a ******.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pa12a*
> 
> Hit my EC2-A against the edge of my keyboard, scroll wheel is broke and rattles like a snake. Youch.
> 
> I feel like a ******.


RMA and tell some sort of a lie.


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Okay,wanted to give my impressions. First, it's the first mouse which I just put my hand on and it instantly felt comfortable. It fit my grip absolutely brilliantly . Have yet to play but will do soon. It's so comfortable I can't even explain. It's just a breaze to use it in windows + the coating is perfect match for the way my hand sweats, it sticks like glue.
> Quality is superb. No rattling,scroll wheel works wonders,no skips,nothing.
> Cable is the best i've had the pleasure to use.
> The buttons are just amazing. I never misclick,but can spam very fast. The tactile feedback compared to the DA is a very good feeling.
> tl;dr : Best mouse ever. Carved for my hand.
> P.S. One little annoyance. RMB is harder to press than LMB.


Ouch! I was JUST about to order one solely based on your reply there. Then I remembered you're sporting a palm grip. I think. So... Can you just try to have a feel of how it would fit you if you had a fingertip / claw grip? We've got comparable hand sizes.

What I'm interested in is: with a claw / fingertip grip do you still have enough room left for vertical movements (ie: without the mouse hitting annoyingly your inner palm), and at the same time would you still hit comfortably the middle click?!

I would be very grateful if you'd reply, thanks. And congrats!


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> Ouch! I was JUST about to order one solely based on your reply there. Then I remembered you're sporting a palm grip. I think. So... Can you just try to have a feel of how it would fit you if you had a fingertip / claw grip? We've got comparable hand sizes.
> 
> What I'm interested in is: with a claw / fingertip grip do you still have enough room left for vertical movements (ie: without the mouse hitting annoyingly your inner palm), and at the same time would you still hit comfortably the middle click?!
> 
> I would be very grateful if you'd reply, thanks. And congrats!


It'll work flawlessly with claw grip.
When it comes to fingertip grip, I'm not sure how you hold you and how forward/backward your fingers are. I think it should work,vertical movement is somewhat limited,around 1cm of pull down ,at least for me with my fingers placed on the middle of the MB. If I go and hold it towards the back of the button,there is more.


----------



## Brightmist

If you don't want the mouse to hit your inner palm you should be checking out mice that's shorter in length, tighter in the ass and and that doesn't have arches that starts curving in the back (ie. Torq X5).

Try G303, G100s or Xornet II maybe.


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> If you don't want the mouse to hit your inner palm you should be checking out mice that's shorter in length, tighter in the ass and and that doesn't have arches that starts curving in the back (ie. Torq X5).
> 
> Try G303, G100s or Xornet II maybe.


For my <18cm hands, the g303 is an absolute nightmare. Sold mine after 1h of use. I'm currently using a Xornet. Not bad, but somehow, not really ideal. That's why I'm still looking... it was between razer diamondback and the EC2 A. You can take a look at this thread for a bit more: Mouse Search


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> It'll work flawlessly with claw grip.
> When it comes to fingertip grip, I'm not sure how you hold you and how forward/backward your fingers are. I think it should work,vertical movement is somewhat limited,around 1cm of pull down ,at least for me with my fingers placed on the middle of the MB. If I go and hold it towards the back of the button,there is more.


Thanks. 1cm is pretty tight. The only flaw of this mouse as I see it without trying it yet is the forward placement of the scroll wheel - why in the world would they place it so frontal!?


----------



## boogdud

It might look far forward in pics, but on the ec2 it doesn't feel far forward at all.


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> It might look far forward in pics, but on the ec2 it doesn't feel far forward at all.


I meant far forward for smaller sized hands.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> I meant far forward for smaller sized hands.


Perfectly placed for my grip.


----------



## Snakesoul

quote name="hotwheels1997" url="/t/1536056/zowie-releases-ec1-a-and-ec2-a/1490#post_24645803"]
Perfectly placed for my grip.[/quote]
I have the same hand size as you, 17,50cm, and when I tried at the store ec2 a felt smaller for me... Must say I tried it on top of the plastic wrap, so I chose ec1-a.,in terms of comfort it's one of the best mice i put my hand on.
So about the settings, should I leave it at 1000hz? Or change it to 500?
Coming from g400, and all I can say is that i have no winner yet...
G400 have that terrible right side lip, but it performs flawless, ec1 on the other hand, is very comfortable but it feels different on tracking...
BTW I'm using a qck heavy with both mice...
Feel free to give me a help ☺


----------



## coccosoids

@snakesoul: what kind of grip do you use?!


----------



## hotwheels1997

Shouldn't the EC1-A be better tracking wise than the G400? 3310 is a pretty good sensor. I used a DA before the EC2, sensor feels identical (3988 vs 3310) . Only the 3366 I was using with the G303 felt snappier.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> @snakesoul: what kind of grip do you use?!


I'm using full palm grip with this one, sometimes I curl a bit my index finger so I can have a more tactile feeling with the tip of my finger.


----------



## aerowalk30

Been discussed before and couple people including myself can feel some sort of filter or smoothing on the EC-A series that makes it feels different from a 3090 sensor. I much prefer my EC-eVo over the EC-A simply due to the sensor feeling.


----------



## Snakesoul

Well I'm no expert but for some reason G400 feels more raw, maybe I'm just used to it, to the design and how it behaves... I remember I had a big difficulty to adapt to the design because of the right lip, but tracking was always good and that's why I stayed with it. Deathadder was ok, but it was too big/bulky and not so comfortable for long periods of gaming.
I'm also much picky for comfort than for sensor...
I had some issues with the 1st ec1 i had, and always coming back to g400... I'll give a try to this one and see if I can adapt to it, if not, I'm going to sell it.


----------



## Aventadoor

Guys!
JW and Krimz are using EC series!
No wonder they play so bad


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Shouldn't the EC1-A be better tracking wise than the G400? 3310 is a pretty good sensor. I used a DA before the EC2, sensor feels identical (3988 vs 3310) . Only the 3366 I was using with the G303 felt snappier.


Weird, I felt my DA 2013 (Avago 3988) felt a lot more precise than my EC1-A.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Weird, I felt my DA 2013 (Avago 3988) felt a lot more precise than my EC1-A.


Hey agsz, could you give me some help? Which polling rate is better for Ec1a? Also what mouse are you using now?

Edit: just notice my replacement unit have some issue...when i press mouse button 1, there's something on the back of the mouse that lifts...one less point for Q.C... Going for my beloved G400...


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Guys!
> JW and Krimz are using EC series!
> No wonder they play so bad





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







That means that the ec2-a = crap


----------



## Aventadoor

Exactly!
No wonder I couldent hit with my EC2-A


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Okay,wanted to give my impressions. First, it's the first mouse which I just put my hand on and it instantly felt comfortable. It fit my grip absolutely brilliantly . Have yet to play but will do soon. It's so comfortable I can't even explain. It's just a breaze to use it in windows + the coating is perfect match for the way my hand sweats, it sticks like glue.
> Quality is superb. No rattling,scroll wheel works wonders,no skips,nothing.
> Cable is the best i've had the pleasure to use.
> The buttons are just amazing. I never misclick,but can spam very fast. The tactile feedback compared to the DA is a very good feeling.
> tl;dr : Best mouse ever. Carved for my hand.
> P.S. One little annoyance. RMB is harder to press than LMB.


The Ec1-A is still the most comfy mouse i have ever used. Never have i put my hand o. One & instantly felt at home. I'm currently trying other mice but nothing is close as far as comfort.


----------



## agsz

My friend tried my EC1-A out @ a LAN this past weekend, and said it was fine, although he has an EC2-A currently. But coming from a Deathadder 2013, this mouse just feels broke sensor wise, it's not half as precise as my DA 2013, unless all 3310 sensors feel like this, but it seems like I don't have a defective mouse like I originally thought.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Hey agsz, could you give me some help? Which polling rate is better for Ec1a? Also what mouse are you using now?
> 
> Edit: just notice my replacement unit have some issue...when i press mouse button 1, there's something on the back of the mouse that lifts...one less point for Q.C... Going for my beloved G400...


500 is more stable.

edit: goes for most mice and implementations out there, except for Logitech or DA 3,5G or older. Some exceptions here and there, of course.


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> My friend tried my EC1-A out @ a LAN this past weekend, and said it was fine, although he has an EC2-A currently. But coming from a Deathadder 2013, this mouse just feels broke sensor wise, it's not half as precise as my DA 2013, unless all 3310 sensors feel like this, but it seems like I don't have a defective mouse like I originally thought.


Man, you have to give it some time. When I first grabbed the Xornet both the shape and the tracking felt off and 'broken'. After a while I started to naturalize the tracking, but not so much the shape. Now the tracking feels just fine, but I still have a few issues with the shape - hence the reason while I'm looking at the EC2.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> 500 is more stable.
> 
> edit: goes for most mice and implementations out there, except for Logitech or DA 3,5G or older. Some exceptions here and there, of course.


Hey ramraze, thanks for the input, Rep for that 
Right now I'm not using it since there's a quality issue.. So just returned to G400..


----------



## tom2k11

I love EC2-A shape wise but the LOD is just way too low, even on the highest setting







I'm using a black pad (qck) to try and increase the LOD but it's still too low. I think this is because I used an original DA for years. Am I alone here?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tom2k11*
> 
> I love EC2-A shape wise but the LOD is just way too low, even on the highest setting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a black pad (qck) to try and increase the LOD but it's still too low. I think this is because I used an original DA for years. Am I alone here?


Some units have lower lod than others. I had it too. Lack of or poor qc.


----------



## solz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tom2k11*
> 
> I love EC2-A shape wise but the LOD is just way too low, even on the highest setting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a black pad (qck) to try and increase the LOD but it's still too low. I think this is because I used an original DA for years. Am I alone here?


This is exactly my problem, i just cant handle the low lift off distance since i like to flick around even on the highest lift off distance settings.
Steelseries Rival owner here, i hope one day they will have normal lift off distance


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Hey agsz, could you give me some help? Which polling rate is better for Ec1a? Also what mouse are you using now?
> 
> Edit: just notice my replacement unit have some issue...when i press mouse button 1, there's something on the back of the mouse that lifts...one less point for Q.C... Going for my beloved G400...


It seems to be stable @ 1000 Hz, but I'm not too sure if 500 Hz or 1000 Hz is better / more stable with this mouse, I haven't really used it besides some DMing/Surfing, just can't bring myself to actually pug/scrim with it. I'm using the Deathadder 2013 still/again. The DA 2013 just feels so much more precise, and I even tried the SteelSeries Rival recently, which didn't seem to lack precision like my EC1-A, but the Rival felt pretty screwy, apparently there's Firmware issues. Hopefully some other people in this thread can elaborate more on which Polling Rate is best to use and why.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> Man, you have to give it some time. When I first grabbed the Xornet both the shape and the tracking felt off and 'broken'. After a while I started to naturalize the tracking, but not so much the shape. Now the tracking feels just fine, but I still have a few issues with the shape - hence the reason while I'm looking at the EC2.


You're probably right man, but it drives me nuts. I didn't feel the same lack of precision with the SteelSeries Rival, so I keep thinking there's something wrong with mine.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tom2k11*
> 
> I love EC2-A shape wise but the LOD is just way too low, even on the highest setting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm using a black pad (qck) to try and increase the LOD but it's still too low. I think this is because I used an original DA for years. Am I alone here?


I use a Deathadder 2013, and when I do use the Zowie EC1-A briefly, I change it to the 'Original' Lift off Distance (highest), and it feels the same as my Deathadder 2013, although I've never done the CD testing method to see if they're identical. The Zowie EC1-A = ~1.5-1.8mm Lift off Distance, which at the highest LoD setting, is ~2 CD's, while the Deathadder 2013 I think is ~3-4 CD's default.

You could try to get thinner mouse skates, possibly the replacement mouse skates / Zowie Speedy Skatez, are a bit thinner, which will give you a higher Lift off Distance, slightly at least. What mouse buttons are you holding to change it to the Higher Lift off Distance? I think the EC1-A Manual / Zowie F.A.Q Page mixed up Mouse 4 & Mouse 5.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> It seems to be stable @ 1000 Hz, but I'm not too sure if 500 Hz or 1000 Hz is better / more stable with this mouse, I haven't really used it besides some DMing/Surfing, just can't bring myself to actually pug/scrim with it. I'm using the Deathadder 2013 still/again. The DA 2013 just feels so much more precise, and I even tried the SteelSeries Rival recently, which didn't seem to lack precision like my EC1-A, but the Rival felt pretty screwy, apparently there's Firmware issues. Hopefully some other people in this thread can elaborate more on which Polling Rate is best to use and why.
> You're probably right man, but it drives me nuts. I didn't feel the same lack of precision with the SteelSeries Rival, so I keep thinking there's something wrong with mine.
> I use a Deathadder 2013, and when I do use the Zowie EC1-A briefly, I change it to the 'Original' Lift off Distance (highest), and it feels the same as my Deathadder 2013, although I've never done the CD testing method to see if they're identical. The Zowie EC1-A = ~1.5-1.8mm Lift off Distance, which at the highest LoD setting, is ~2 CD's, while the Deathadder 2013 I think is ~3-4 CD's default.
> 
> You could try to get thinner mouse skates, possibly the replacement mouse skates / Zowie Speedy Skatez, are a bit thinner, which will give you a higher Lift off Distance, slightly at least. What mouse buttons are you holding to change it to the Higher Lift off Distance? I think the EC1-A Manual / Zowie F.A.Q Page mixed up Mouse 4 & Mouse 5.


You can get used to the tracking and the shape, but ultimately if a shape doesn't feel right or suit your hand it's a waste of time trying to live with it(provided there is something that suits you better).

The lack of accuracy is most likely due to less smoothing. The 3988 has more of it, therefore it gives a feeling of more precision. Also the frame rate of fhe 3988 is higher so the cursor path feels more smooth, fluent, without hiccups, less jerky; for lack of better expressions. Also iirc the Rival had more smoothing than zowie's 3310 implementation.


----------



## tom2k11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I use a Deathadder 2013, and when I do use the Zowie EC1-A briefly, I change it to the 'Original' Lift off Distance (highest), and it feels the same as my Deathadder 2013, although I've never done the CD testing method to see if they're identical. The Zowie EC1-A = ~1.5-1.8mm Lift off Distance, which at the highest LoD setting, is ~2 CD's, while the Deathadder 2013 I think is ~3-4 CD's default.
> 
> You could try to get thinner mouse skates, possibly the replacement mouse skates / Zowie Speedy Skatez, are a bit thinner, which will give you a higher Lift off Distance, slightly at least. What mouse buttons are you holding to change it to the Higher Lift off Distance? I think the EC1-A Manual / Zowie F.A.Q Page mixed up Mouse 4 & Mouse 5.


yeah I'm definitely using the right combination of buttons. I meant the original DA 3G / 3.5G btw, not 2013. I think 2013's lift off is too low as well! Although it's slightly better for me than EC2A.

Right now the G402 seems to have a perfect LOD for me, but I much prefer the EC2A shape - the issue is that I lift my mouse a lot and I'm so used to feeling some tracking on the lifts from my old DA, so much so that the Zowie almost feels broken, like the tracking stops working when it shouldn't (I know this isn't the actual case though







)


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tom2k11*
> 
> yeah I'm definitely using the right combination of buttons. I meant the original DA 3G / 3.5G btw, not 2013. I think 2013's lift off is too low as well! Although it's slightly better for me than EC2A.
> 
> Right now the G402 seems to have a perfect LOD for me, but I much prefer the EC2A shape - the issue is that I lift my mouse a lot and I'm so used to feeling some tracking on the lifts from my old DA, so much so that the Zowie almost feels broken, like the tracking stops working when it shouldn't (I know this isn't the actual case though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )


Probably the first one to complain of short LOD? I don't understand how this would affect you in every day use?


----------



## tom2k11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> Probably the first one to complain of short LOD? I don't understand how this would affect you in every day use?


Well there was a guy directly under my first post who felt the same, so it can't be that rare. And I said how it effects me:

"the issue is that I lift my mouse a lot and I'm so used to feeling some tracking on the lifts from my old DA, so much so that the Zowie almost feels broken, like the tracking stops working when it shouldn't (I know this isn't the actual case though tongue.gif)"

I guess it's being too used to habits from having a high LOD for years. I'm not saying it's the fault of the mouse, just I can't get used to it sadly.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> You can get used to the tracking and the shape, but ultimately if a shape doesn't feel right or suit your hand it's a waste of time trying to live with it(provided there is something that suits you better).
> 
> The lack of accuracy is most likely due to less smoothing. The 3988 has more of it, therefore it gives a feeling of more precision. Also the frame rate of fhe 3988 is higher so the cursor path feels more smooth, fluent, without hiccups, less jerky; for lack of better expressions. Also iirc the Rival had more smoothing than zowie's 3310 implementation.


Is that true what you said about the sensor?
I've always felt the 3988 as the smoothest sensor to have ever used. The 3366 was jerkier, the 3310 is closer but still not as smooth,more direct perhaps.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Is that true what you said about the sensor?
> I've always felt the 3988 as the smoothest sensor to have ever used. The 3366 was jerkier, the 3310 is closer but still not as smooth,more direct perhaps.


Well I'm no skylit, but I know that smoothing adds perceivable precision, giving the 3988 and Rival a feeling of more of it. Don't confuse precision with smoothness, or a 'smooth' sensor.


----------



## qsxcv

[email protected] is smoother than probably anything (before it neg accels)
maybe twineye's better though... but i have no experience with it
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> but I know that smoothing adds perceivable precision.


wot?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> [email protected] is smoother than probably anything (before it neg accels)
> maybe twineye's better though... but i have no experience with it
> wot?


I mean that smoothing can reduce pixel walk thus make the cursor feel more accurate. Am I wrong in saying that?


----------



## qsxcv

no but there's not much jitter/pixel walk to start with at normal dpis (e.g. <1000)


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> no but there's not much jitter/pixel walk to start with at normal dpis (e.g. <1000)


So does what I said about the EC1-A vs. Deathadder 2013 make any sense? I've tried the EC1-A @ 400/800 dpi & 500/1000 Hz as well.


----------



## qsxcv

idk havent been following this thread


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> idk havent been following this thread


My DA 2013 feels much more precise, I feel like I can't aim for ***** with the EC1-A at all, and small movements don't even seem to register. According to another user in this thread, that's because the DA 2013 has 'smoothing', while the Zowie EC1-A does not?


----------



## qsxcv

3310 and 3988 have similar amounts of smoothing
i have no idea how good or bad the zowie firmware is though


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> 3310 and 3988 have similar amounts of smoothing
> i have no idea how good or bad the zowie firmware is though


Zowie also doesn't get to update their firmware after release, unlike Razer and Steelseries. meh


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Zowie also doesn't get to update their firmware after release, unlike Razer and Steelseries. meh


Umm... I can aim the same with both,except I find the EC2-A more comfortable. What I did was change my sensitivity because DPI steps are different. I used 1000dpi,0.8 in game with the DA. Using 800dpi on the EC2,though not 1.00 in-game ,but 1.035 because of the different DPI steps. Do that and once the muscle memory is back,you'll rekt ppl again.


----------



## coccosoids

Someone also said that maybe the Zowie does not use perfect 400, 800... but more like 380, 760. Something like - maybe that's the feeling you have?


----------



## Soo8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> i have no idea how good or bad the zowie firmware is though


Not great.
Poling rate is unstable. 1000hz is ~850hz average.

After switching to 500hz, although less smooth, small mouse movements are way more consistent.
Also the frame rate on the 3988 is way higher = more responsive to small movements.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> Someone also said that maybe the Zowie does not use perfect 400, 800... but more like 380, 760. Something like - maybe that's the feeling you have?


Yea, exactly. Their 800dpi ends up being 730ish. That's why I had to increase in-game sens.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> Not great.
> Poling rate is unstable. 1000hz is ~850hz average.
> 
> After switching to 500hz, although less smooth, small mouse movements are way more consistent.
> Also the frame rate on the 3988 is way higher = more responsive to small movements.


so I'm not crazy after all..


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Yea, exactly. Their 800dpi ends up being 730ish. That's why I had to increase in-game sens.


800dpi ends up being 770-785, I think every EC1-A/EC2-A could be slightly different. Your best bet is to use Mouse Tester.exe and see for yourself.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> Not great.
> Poling rate is unstable. 1000hz is ~850hz average.
> 
> After switching to 500hz, although less smooth, small mouse movements are way more consistent.
> Also the frame rate on the 3988 is way higher = more responsive to small movements.


This is the recommended way to go for most mice out there at the moment (depending on the game you play). The way Logitech has implemented its sensors is really good, so there is no need for that - Even in the older models like G400s and G300s.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Soo8*
> 
> Not great.
> Poling rate is unstable. 1000hz is ~850hz average.


wot? for their 3310 mice?

(btw it's not that the polling is unstable, it's that the mouse doesn't respond to every 5th poll or something. common issue with 3090 mice but for modern sensors i'd imagine this issue is nonexistent now)

Quote:


> Also the frame rate on the 3988 is way higher = more responsive to small movements.


uh that's not how things work. actually framerate probably doesn't matter at all for small movements. because the way correlation sensors works is by keeping the same reference frame (i.e. what the most recent frame is compared against to determine motion) until the most recent frame is shifted significantly. so if you're moving slowly, effectively a lot of frames are discarded anyway and it doesn't matter whether the framerate is high or low.


----------



## grahu

Hello, is ec-a's coating similar to deathadder's? Didn't like the deathadder coating. Also, I'm sweating a lot


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grahu*
> 
> Hello, is ec-a's coating similar to deathadder's? Didn't like the deathadder coating. Also, I'm sweating a lot


Somewhat similar, a bit more grainy. Deathadder is more slippery for me with dry hands.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Somewhat similar, a bit more grainy. Deathadder is more slippery for me with dry hands.


Same. EC2-A is much gripper with dry and sweaty hands.


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Same. EC2-A is much gripper with dry and sweaty hands.


How are you enjoying the mouse so far?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> How are you enjoying the mouse so far?


Have played only one game with it, social stuff took over in my life past couple of months.
Been using it daily for word/excel things,video editing and general browsing and i'm just digging the shape a lot. The sensor feels very simular to the 3988 so no need to adjust. The clicks are just superb. Going back to the DA, I can't handle the soft clicks. The harder clicks are PERFECT , mainly their clickiness, it's so bouncy and has a a good tactitle feedback.


----------



## ianzeiraa

for a hybrid palm/claw gripper, which one should I chose: ec2-a or za12 ?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ianzeiraa*
> 
> for a hybrid palm/claw gripper, which one should I chose: ec2-a or za12 ?


What's your hand size??

I have played with my rival fade more than enough of the last 3 weeks. I feel i am solid with it no doubt. However i hooked up my za11 just for a test run for a few hours & felt just so much more accurate & even more consistent with it than my Rival.

I think my mouse testing for a while is done, my Ec1-A should be back home tomorrow. Still the best mouse i have ever held in my ogre hands.


----------



## ianzeiraa

my hand is around 18.5 cm


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ianzeiraa*
> 
> my hand is around 18.5 cm


I would say the Ec2-A then.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> wot? for their 3310 mice?
> 
> (btw it's not that the polling is unstable, it's that the mouse doesn't respond to every 5th poll or something. common issue with 3090 mice but for modern sensors i'd imagine this issue is nonexistent now)
> uh that's not how things work. actually framerate probably doesn't matter at all for small movements. because the way correlation sensors works is by keeping the same reference frame (i.e. what the most recent frame is compared against to determine motion) until the most recent frame is shifted significantly. so if you're moving slowly, effectively a lot of frames are discarded anyway and it doesn't matter whether the framerate is high or low.


Hmm, so why is it that the DA 2013 / Avago-ADNS 3988 feels so much more precise than the Zowie EC1-A / their implementation of the Pixart-3310 sensor?


----------



## qsxcv

could be a million things...


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> could be a million things...


I thought it was defective, but a friend who has the EC2-A tried it at a LAN last weekend, and said it felt fine


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Hmm, so why is it that the DA 2013 / Avago-ADNS 3988 feels so much more precise than the Zowie EC1-A / their implementation of the Pixart-3310 sensor?


More precise to you? Or everyone?


----------



## lettu

I'm tempted to try out EC2-A, mainly for the shape.
I'm coming from ZA12 and have tried the FK1 for a while and those have different scrollwheels it seems.
I use mouse3 and scrolling a lot in games, so maybe someone can help compare the EC2-a scrollwheel to ZA/FK? It would be a deal breaker for me if its even more stiff than the already stiff wheels (especially to press) in ZA/FK.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Hmm, so why is it that the DA 2013 / Avago-ADNS 3988 feels so much more precise than the Zowie EC1-A / their implementation of the Pixart-3310 sensor?


Could just be the implementation, or the mousefeet, which allow you to do fine movements easily. I personally don't see a big difference, but I do prefer the 3988.


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> 800dpi ends up being 770-785, I think every EC1-A/EC2-A could be slightly different. Your best bet is to use Mouse Tester.exe and see for yourself.


Just wanna add I'm also getting the same cpi range on my EC1-A using mousetester and I couldn't get it to hit 800 without exceeding the 4 inch limit. It's staying in the 740-780 something range.


----------



## skawster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lettu*
> 
> I'm tempted to try out EC2-A, mainly for the shape.
> I'm coming from ZA12 and have tried the FK1 for a while and those have different scrollwheels it seems.
> I use mouse3 and scrolling a lot in games, so maybe someone can help compare the EC2-a scrollwheel to ZA/FK? It would be a deal breaker for me if its even more stiff than the already stiff wheels (especially to press) in ZA/FK.


The scroll wheel has the exact same stiffness as the one found on the DA 13.


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skawster*
> 
> The scroll wheel has the exact same stiffness as the one found on the DA 13.


Would that qualify as 'stiff'?! Maybe 'normal'?! I would imagine it's not soft...


----------



## skawster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> Would that qualify as 'stiff'?! Maybe 'normal'?! I would imagine it's not soft...


What I meant is that the force required to CLICK the scroll wheel on the EC2-A is pretty much the same as the DA13, as for the scrolling itself it's stiffer than the DA but not as stiff as the FK1/FK2. Haven't tested other mice so I can't compare much I'm sorry.


----------



## lettu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skawster*
> 
> What I meant is that the force required to CLICK the scroll wheel on the EC2-A is pretty much the same as the DA13, as for the scrolling itself it's stiffer than the DA but not as stiff as the FK1/FK2. Haven't tested other mice so I can't compare much I'm sorry.


Thanks, looks like I need to give this mouse a try then!
I'll make a post about how I find the wheel when I receive it.


----------



## Ihateallmice

ops I did it again. love this mod so much.


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ops I did it again. love this mod so much.


Great minds think alike


----------



## Ihateallmice

nice


----------



## agsz

Got the Zowie Speedy Skatez / Replacement Skates for my EC1-A. Now I've changed skates on this mouse before, but they never seem to fill the mouse skate 'shell', and I can at times feel/hear the bottom of the mouse hitting my mousepad. Is there any recommended way to putting the skates on? I normally tried to align the flat parts of the top & bottom skates, than press down to get it completely flat, but it seems like the duller/edge with less of a curve never sits flush, causing the issues I stated above.


----------



## SoFGR

dunno, my hyperglides Z-2 are bit smaller than the sockets but they still perform lovely, they're 0.7mm thick so i lost some dpi

had to increase my sens from 1.3 to 1.32 in order to get the same cm/360 as before, that's the only con i spotted so far


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoFGR*
> 
> dunno, my hyperglides Z-2 are bit smaller than the sockets but they still perform lovely, they're 0.7mm thick so i lost some dpi
> 
> had to increase my sens from 1.3 to 1.32 in order to get the same cm/360 as before, that's the only con i spotted so far


Lost DPI? Them being thicker if anything would lower your Lift off Distance, not DPI, and should cause you to LOWER your sensitivity, due to being brand new and slicker.

Does anyone know the stock Zowie EC1-A mouse skates specifications? "Special design results in less friction and enhanced performance
0.6 mm thickness gives enhanced durability" (Zowie Speedy Skatez/Replacement Skates Specs). So I'm assuming the stock mouse skates are a bit thinner, also hoping the lower friction helps with the issue I've had with my EC1-A.


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Lost DPI? Them being thicker if anything would lower your Lift off Distance, not DPI, and should cause you to LOWER your sensitivity, due to being brand new and slicker.
> 
> Does anyone know the stock Zowie EC1-A mouse skates specifications? "Special design results in less friction and enhanced performance
> 0.6 mm thickness gives enhanced durability" (Zowie Speedy Skatez/Replacement Skates Specs). So I'm assuming the stock mouse skates are a bit thinner, also hoping the lower friction helps with the issue I've had with my EC1-A.


Higher than default LOD creates lower than default DPI. Essentially the same as using the tape trick, less light being directed onto the mouse-pad for the sensor to track. Higher LOD = dissipates (correct word?) the light hitting the mouse-pad = lowering the intensity of the light the sensor tracks = lower DPI in laymans terms. The two are one in the same in terms of the end resulting DPI.

Stock Zowie feet are a bit of a joke in my book when using soft pads, I've had people complain to me about after 3-6 months basically their whole mouse is a mouse foot because of how thin they are and they can feel the bottom plastic of the mouse dragging on the mouse-pad. Granted most of these people using QCKs so I can't say for any of mouse-pad.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aerowalk30*
> 
> Higher than default LOD creates lower than default DPI. Essentially the same as using the tape trick, less light being directed onto the mouse-pad for the sensor to track. Higher LOD = dissipates (correct word?) the light hitting the mouse-pad = lowering the intensity of the light the sensor tracks = lower DPI in laymans terms. The two are one in the same in terms of the end resulting DPI.
> 
> Stock Zowie feet are a bit of a joke in my book when using soft pads, I've had people complain to me about after 3-6 months basically their whole mouse is a mouse foot because of how thin they are and they can feel the bottom plastic of the mouse dragging on the mouse-pad. Granted most of these people using QCKs so I can't say for any of mouse-pad.


Ah..I didn't know it works like that, I thought he mixed up the terms. I got the Zowie Speedy Skatez/Replacement Skates, which are apparently a little thicker I think (0.6mm), but I can't find specs on the stock mouse skates, and also use the Higher LoD setting, and the DPI is the same as it was on the stock skates, always 10-20 dpi less than what it should be.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Anyone here with a big hand have & prefer the Ec2-A?

I want to try it to see how big of a size difference it is compared to the Ec1-A.

Also wanna see how comfy it is compared to the Ec1-A


----------



## Sencha

What size are you hands? mine are 22cm and the EC1 feels better.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> What size are you hands? mine are 22cm and the EC1 feels better.


Mine are 21.5.


----------



## Sencha

Well I guess the best thing to do is to try it. It certainly felt fine in my hands but not as good fit as the EC1.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> Well I guess the best thing to do is to try it. It certainly felt fine in my hands but not as good fit as the EC1.


I read somewhere the tracking is better in the ec2-A, not sure i believe that all. I was just wondering in general if any fellow big handed fella's like myself happened to prefer the Ec2-A to the 1-A.

I may just try it, loved how the 1-A felt in my hands anyway.


----------



## Xanatos

nvm


----------



## aerowalk30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> I read somewhere the tracking is better in the ec2-A, not sure i believe that all. I was just wondering in general if any fellow big handed fella's like myself happened to prefer the Ec2-A to the 1-A.
> 
> I may just try it, loved how the 1-A felt in my hands anyway.


They have the exact same internals, there is no performance difference between either EC-A. I like the EC-2 and have 22cm hands. Granted I'm using an EC-1 at the moment but I think it just depends how much mouse you want to be moving around. At the end of the day I could use either and I think I'd have a hard time choosing between the two.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aerowalk30*
> 
> They have the exact same internals, there is no performance difference between either EC-A. I like the EC-2 and have 22cm hands. Granted I'm using an EC-1 at the moment but I think it just depends how much mouse you want to be moving around. At the end of the day I could use either and I think I'd have a hard time choosing between the two.


Either will do fine i'm sure, got a deal on the Ec1-A so i'll run with that. I've used plenty of mice & very few have not felt small.

I'll try the 2-A soon as well.


----------



## KaneZ

Just got my EC2-A earlier this day and want to share my impression with you and those who think about buying it.

My first gaming mouse like almost 15 years ago was a Logitech, used Logitech after that ever since. Used a G500 for the last four years or so and decided I need a new mouse that better fits for my small hand (like 17cm) when I want to use finger tip grip.

I love the EC2-A so far. It is much smaller compared to what it looks like on the pictures. Not as long, not as wide, not as high. Even in my rather small hands I can easily use palm grip, claw grip or finger tip grip, whatever I prefer. The shape and size is great, the surface is just superb. Can't remember if I ever put my hand on a house that felt better. I really can agree with those who said it immediatley feels like an extension of your arm/hand and works the moment you go.

About the clicks. I think they are fine. Maybe not the best I ever had, but they are still way better than those of the G500 and by that a big improvement for me. I have no idea why so many are complaining about the mousewheel or the side buttons. The mouse wheel might be a little bit too stable and too hard for my preference, but it's absolutly precise and will do exactly what you want. Just not as good as the G500 mousewheel if you want to scroll really much really fast. I personally like the sidebuttons alot! They are big enough to press them way easier than those of the G500. I don't see a problem with how fast or slow they react. I think it's just fine, but that might be me who only uses the sidebuttons for browsing and not for gaming.

I'm using it on my QCK+ Mini and I didn't notice any kind of problematic LOD so far. Might be because I dont lift of alot in Starcraft or while browsing. I'm using it on 800dpi since I played on 1200dpi the last few years and wanted to decrease dpi instead of increasing it and you only have the choice between 800dpi and 1600dpi from my point of view. The sensor felt good in the first moment, but not extremly special or something. But then I switched from 1000hz to 500hz and boy, I can feel the precession improvement in the very first game I played.

Concerning the LED in the mouse wheel, I'd like to turn it off and on whenever I want, but I dont need to open the mouse and disable it. It really isn't as annoying as some claim it to be. If you get distracted by a lot of little things then maybe yes. But I guess 90% of us won't say it's distracting you while playing.

Overall, I'm really really satisfied so far and don't regret ordering it for a second. The only thing that bothers me is a something that looks like a 2x2mm grease spot on the left mouse button. Of course it's no grease, but it seems I can't remove it and it's probably a little hickup in product (I read alot about lacking QC at Zowie on this forum).

If you think about buying one for yourself, go ahead. I think you will be very pleased (aside from those with >=20cm hands).


----------



## agsz

Not sure what purpose this divider serves or how it affects the sensor, but I noticed mine is chipped somewhat, if you zoom in and look at the right side of it.

edit: It's not jagged, so it seems as if the ADNS-2120 trim lens is defective. I looked up tons of images of the Pixart-3310 & the ADNS-2120 trim lens on it's own, none look like that at all. Theoretically, this would explain why I wasn't liking the mouse at all and said it didn't track all the time, especially tiny movements. So there is a slight chance that I'm not crazy after all.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Not sure what purpose this divider serves or how it affects the sensor, but I noticed mine is chipped somewhat, if you zoom in and look at the right side of it.
> 
> edit: It's not jagged, so it seems as if the ADNS-2120 trim lens is defective. I looked up tons of images of the Pixart-3310 & the ADNS-2120 trim lens on it's own, none look like that at all. Theoretically, this would explain why I wasn't liking the mouse at all and said it didn't track all the time, especially tiny movements. So there is a slight chance that I'm not crazy after all.


How can this chipped devider affect the tracking?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> How can this chipped devider affect the tracking?


I'm pretty sure the divider aka the 'trim lens', is used for the sensor to reflect off of. So when the sensor reflects off of it and hits the mousepad, part of it isn't registering I think? I'm really not too sure about the technical explanation, or even if I'm correct honestly.. Hoping for someone more knowledgeable to shed some light.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I'm pretty sure the divider aka the 'trim lens', is used for the sensor to reflect off of. So when the sensor reflects off of it and hits the mousepad, part of it isn't registering I think? I'm really not too sure about the technical explanation, or even if I'm correct honestly.. Hoping for someone more knowledgeable to shed some light.


Can't comment whatsoever on that subject. I have the most basic knowledge of what a sensor is and all,nothing too advanced. I can say the mouse tracking feels very very very simular to my DA 2013, perhaps I can't even feel the difference once I achieve the same sens. The other sensor i've tested was the 3366 ,which felt much different than those two. It was 10x more direct and raw, 3988 and 3310 definitely have some smoothing compared to 3366.


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaneZ*
> 
> Just got my EC2-A earlier this day and want to share my impression with you and those who think about buying it.
> 
> My first gaming mouse like almost 15 years ago was a Logitech, used Logitech after that ever since. Used a G500 for the last four years or so and decided I need a new mouse that better fits for my small hand (like 17cm) when I want to use finger tip grip.
> 
> I love the EC2-A so far. It is much smaller compared to what it looks like on the pictures. Not as long, not as wide, not as high. Even in my rather small hands I can easily use palm grip, claw grip or finger tip grip, whatever I prefer. The shape and size is great, the surface is just superb. Can't remember if I ever put my hand on a house that felt better. I really can agree with those who said it immediatley feels like an extension of your arm/hand and works the moment you go.
> 
> About the clicks. I think they are fine. Maybe not the best I ever had, but they are still way better than those of the G500 and by that a big improvement for me. I have no idea why so many are complaining about the mousewheel or the side buttons. The mouse wheel might be a little bit too stable and too hard for my preference, but it's absolutly precise and will do exactly what you want. Just not as good as the G500 mousewheel if you want to scroll really much really fast. I personally like the sidebuttons alot! They are big enough to press them way easier than those of the G500. I don't see a problem with how fast or slow they react. I think it's just fine, but that might be me who only uses the sidebuttons for browsing and not for gaming.
> 
> I'm using it on my QCK+ Mini and I didn't notice any kind of problematic LOD so far. Might be because I dont lift of alot in Starcraft or while browsing. I'm using it on 800dpi since I played on 1200dpi the last few years and wanted to decrease dpi instead of increasing it and you only have the choice between 800dpi and 1600dpi from my point of view. The sensor felt good in the first moment, but not extremly special or something. But then I switched from 1000hz to 500hz and boy, I can feel the precession improvement in the very first game I played.
> 
> Concerning the LED in the mouse wheel, I'd like to turn it off and on whenever I want, but I dont need to open the mouse and disable it. It really isn't as annoying as some claim it to be. If you get distracted by a lot of little things then maybe yes. But I guess 90% of us won't say it's distracting you while playing.
> 
> Overall, I'm really really satisfied so far and don't regret ordering it for a second. The only thing that bothers me is a something that looks like a 2x2mm grease spot on the left mouse button. Of course it's no grease, but it seems I can't remove it and it's probably a little hickup in product (I read alot about lacking QC at Zowie on this forum).
> 
> If you think about buying one for yourself, go ahead. I think you will be very pleased (aside from those with >=20cm hands).


Thanks for the review. Very helpful. I have one question: would you say that the middle click is usable as a third button for work, 8hrs a day? And what I mean by that is if you would consider the scroll wheel to be too hard to press for comfortable use, or too far in the front for ~17, 18cm hands.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> Thanks for the review. Very helpful. I have one question: would you say that the middle click is usable as a third button for work, 8hrs a day? And what I mean by that is if you would consider the scroll wheel to be too hard to press for comfortable use, or too far in the front for ~17, 18cm hands.


Just gonna say,mine clicks ultra easy ,yet tactile.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Just gonna say,mine clicks ultra easy ,yet tactile.


Perfect description. It's honestly just right in terms of scrolling + clicking.


----------



## KaneZ

Can just agree with two, middle mouse button is great aswell.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Perfect description. It's honestly just right in terms of scrolling + clicking.


Any of you tried to play with a DA ot even a G303 after a Zowie? I misclick all the time. They're so goddamn easy to press.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Not sure what purpose this divider serves or how it affects the sensor, but I noticed mine is chipped somewhat, if you zoom in and look at the right side of it.


it's not a divider... it's just part of the light guide that directs the light from the led. doesn't really matter since the part of the mousepad the sensor images is like 1mm x 1mm


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> it's not a divider... it's just part of the light guide that directs the light from the led. doesn't really matter since the part of the mousepad the sensor images is like 1mm x 1mm


Yeah I worded it wrong before I read up on it. So it doesn't impact my sensors performance/precision whatsoever? If anything, do you think it's enough to get an exchange/RMA out of from the place I bought it / Zowie?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Yeah I worded it wrong before I read up on it. So it doesn't impact my sensors performance/precision whatsoever? If anything, do you think it's enough to get an exchange/RMA out of from the place I bought it / Zowie?


They can say you caused it.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> They can say you caused it.


It's not jagged whatsoever, it's pretty clear it came like that out of the factory. Also, the picture I posted showing the defect was taken the day I got it. I took a random picture of the bottom of the mouse, and turns out it was extremely noticeable in that picture, more so than in the pictures I took yesterday trying to show the issue. And I wasn't even aware of the trim lens issue until Friday (2 days ago).


----------



## qsxcv

well you know, a speck of dust can have just as much of an impact on performance. i wouldnt worry about it


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> well you know, a speck of dust can have just as much of an impact on performance. i wouldnt worry about it


This mouse just never felt right, and other mice with the 3310 sensor felt fine to me That's why I'm hoping to at least get a new one out of it and hopefully that one will feel normal?


----------



## qsxcv

maybe. no two mice are identical in the first place. you could get one that's better or worse, but given that you don't like your current one... might as well try for an rma with the chipped lens as the reason.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> maybe. no two mice are identical in the first place. you could get one that's better or worse, but given that you don't like your current one... might as well try for an rma with the chipped lens as the reason.


Yeah, you're completely right. I also e-mailed Rexflo since I got it from them but it's past the return deadline. I had e-mailed them in the past, but now that I sent them that image and explained, they told me they'll e-mail me back on Monday, since I asked them to help me out and just exchange mine rather than me dealing with Zowie RMA which is quite a lengthy process just to get an e-mail back from them. Hopefully I luck out


----------



## Xanatos

What are the actual DPI values for this mouse? Are they actually 400, 800, etc?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xanatos*
> 
> What are the actual DPI values for this mouse? Are they actually 400, 800, etc?


From previous posts apparently not. Last i read 400 was actually around 375 or so.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> From previous posts apparently not. Last i read 400 was actually around 375 or so.


My 400 is 380-390, 800 is 780-790, so about 10-20 DPI off for me. But I'm 75% sure my EC1-A is defective, sending it back tomorrow. pray4me that I get one that feels normal.


----------



## Xanatos

Is the different feeling between the left and right clicks due to the asymmetric shape of the shell?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xanatos*
> 
> Is the different feeling between the left and right clicks due to the asymmetric shape of the shell?


Not sure, my Deathadder 2013 is the same way though in terms of sensitivity in the clicks.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Not sure, my Deathadder 2013 is the same way though in terms of sensitivity in the clicks.


Mine's different. They were the same with the DA , but my EC2-A is a whole another story. Right click is twice harder to press than LMB. Nearly FK stifness. I'm still fine with it , the way i grip mice, I always put more pressure on the right side and often misclick. No issues now.


----------



## jung1e

http://zowie.benq.com/news/5/zowie-refreshes-its-product-line-up

Seems ZOWIE back to 16 step scroll wheel and OMRONs now. Thoughts?

Personally didn't like the 16-step on my eVo or first-gen EC2. Also not feeling the pure black and red logo. Liked how the white gave contrast previously.


----------



## iceskeleton

Someone needs to tell BenQ about the MCU's as well


----------



## coccosoids

Well fu...!!! I just ordered one yesterday.
Apart from the hardcore brand color change, which I know will drastically affect my performance... [pause], what does the 16 step scroll wheel mean in terms of functionality? Could it possibly mean that the middle click will get softer? Do we get any firmware / sensor changes btw?

And lighter OMRON switches? What is that any way?!


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Happy for the sr series being straight black & stitched


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> Well fu...!!! I just ordered one yesterday.
> Apart from the hardcore brand color change, which I know will drastically affect my performance... [pause], what does the 16 step scroll wheel mean in terms of functionality? Could it possibly mean that the middle click will get softer? Do we get any firmware / sensor changes btw?
> 
> And lighter OMRON switches? What is that any way?!


I feel like you. Just got the EC2-A,now they do a refresh... Huanos are better though.


----------



## frewp

yeah I thought about it and it's simply not worth going from EC2-A huano to omrons for $60.
i have my brothers g303 here and they're both so easy to click, of course g303 is a bit easier but it's honestly not a huge difference, lol.

but the FK series is wayyy heavier because of the shell, i was actually firing on accident after I went from FK1 to EC2-A because it felt so much lighter, lol.

omrons would be my favorite no competition if the mouse had the beautiful sound of a huano though. The huano is just such a satisfying click.


----------



## Creizai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> Well fu...!!! I just ordered one yesterday.
> Apart from the hardcore brand color change, which I know will drastically affect my performance... [pause], what does the 16 step scroll wheel mean in terms of functionality? Could it possibly mean that the middle click will get softer? Do we get any firmware / sensor changes btw?
> 
> And lighter OMRON switches? What is that any way?!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I feel like you. Just got the EC2-A,now they do a refresh... Huanos are better though.


My preference is absolutely Huanos that only loses out to G302/3 metal springs omron, which the Zowie def won't have. The 24-click and proper dpi settings changed the entire feel of my EC2. I'm sort of stuck right now, I might have to find a way to buy up the the old stock before the new stuff comes out. I won't say the sky is burning since it's a good business perspective. So many people got burned on the Huanos because of the shells that made them stiffer then they actually are. This will sell like hot cakes but man it really feels like a step back, I think the market that wanted the mice I prefer has already bought them.


----------



## hotwheels1997

RIP Huanos 2008 - 2015. My EC2-A clicks are just so good, I can never misclick and always click when needed.


----------



## frewp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> RIP Huanos 2008 - 2015. My EC2-A clicks are just so good, I can never misclick and always click when needed.


well they'll still be heavier than omrons but obviously a bit lighter than the huanos

most of the stiff comes from the shell, imo I think the FK is wayy too stiff but the EC is pretty much perfect with huanos


----------



## agsz

They re-branded their mice, with the new Zowie/BenQ merger.


----------



## Klopfer

I would like a lil bit bigger EC ...
most mices ( ergo too ) seems to designed for kid hands ...


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> I would like a lil bit bigger EC ...
> most mices ( ergo too ) seems to designed for kid hands ...


Agreed, EC1-A is a little small for my liking, Deathadder 2013/Rival are perfect size imo. My hand size is 17.5" from top of middle finger to wrist, and I see people with bigger hands than me, using smaller mice and I never understood how..


----------



## Scrimstar

when is it gonna release and why didnt they fix led wheel. is it gonna be mixed stock on amazon

***


----------



## Klopfer

I've got ~19.5cm hands, I can grip Mices like g100s, xornet, ZA13... but if I grip more an ergo mouse I prefer bigger ones


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Agreed, EC1-A is a little small for my liking, Deathadder 2013/Rival are perfect size imo. My hand size is 17.5" from top of middle finger to wrist, and I see people with bigger hands than me, using smaller mice and I never understood how..


Did you confuse inches with centimeters? The foot of an elephant is around that size.







Then again centimeters doesn't make sense either, since I have one cm longer hand and EC1-A, Rival and DA are all waaay too big mice for me.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trism*
> 
> Did you confuse inches with centimeters? The foot of an elephant is around that size.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then again centimeters doesn't make sense either, since I have one cm longer hand and EC1-A, Rival and DA are all waaay too big mice for me.


Oops, 7.5 inches ~ 19.05cm


----------



## coccosoids

WARNING!









If you have <18cm hands then EC2-A is *not* for you if you are using *fingertip / claw+fingertip* grips. Probably ok for palming though. Anyone who says anything else probably doesn't know what fingertip or claw grip is and should refrain from commenting.


----------



## IceAero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> WARNING!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you have <18cm hands then EC2-A is *not* for you if you are using *fingertip / claw+fingertip* grips. Probably ok for palming though. Anyone who says anything else probably doesn't know what fingertip or claw grip is and should refrain from commenting.


Gotta agree with this.

My hands are 20cm, and it JUST works.


----------



## coccosoids

So yes... I'm very bummed right now. I don't know what gets me down harder, the fact that I probably won't be able to return it because I've probably scratched the skates, or the fact that I still haven't found a good mouse for my hand size / grip.
Has anyone compared the *EC2A* with the new *diamondback* maybe?!


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> WARNING!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you have <18cm hands then EC2-A is *not* for you if you are using *fingertip / claw+fingertip* grips. Probably ok for palming though. Anyone who says anything else probably doesn't know what fingertip or claw grip is and should refrain from commenting.


Palming is perfect. I can use claw grip easily with it, 17,5 cm hand.


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Palming is perfect. I can use claw grip easily with it, 17,5 cm hand.


Palming yes. But with 17, 17.5ish hands myself, I seriously doubt claw is that easily with it. Also a little on the heavy side perhaps, possibly also due to volume, and not necessarily weight.


----------



## agsz

So the new mousewheel is less likely to auto-scroll on it's own? It causes me to randomly jump in CS:GO, and drives me nuts...Lighter switches would be nice too since i'm used to my Deathadder 2013.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> So the new mousewheel is less likely to auto-scroll on it's own? It causes me to randomly jump in CS:GO, and drives me nuts...Lighter switches would be nice too since i'm used to my Deathadder 2013.


Came from a DA, buttons felt better in all honesty. My scroll wheel is quite literally perfect. You got yourself a faulty unit most likely,given the bad tracking you're experiencing. How's the replacement going?


----------



## andymilky

anyone know if the EC1-A refresh is available for purchase anywhere yet?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Came from a DA, buttons felt better in all honesty. My scroll wheel is quite literally perfect. You got yourself a faulty unit most likely,given the bad tracking you're experiencing. How's the replacement going?


I got them to agree to give me a new one, without going through the inspection process, but even the guy answering the Zowie e-mails said his EC1-A is chipped too (lol?), and they aren't giving me the new revision. Honestly, it's pretty clear that they had an entire batch of defective mice/parts and I'd rather get the new revision, but I'm not sure how to get one through RMA, as I'd rather not get the same one with the crap scroll wheel and chance of getting another defective sensor.


----------



## Xanatos

Is there a way to clean/wipe the shell without ruining the coating?


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xanatos*
> 
> Is there a way to clean/wipe the shell without ruining the coating?


Damp micro fibre cloth


----------



## Xanatos

Are the switches in the pre-Lenovo mice all Huanos microswitches? Has someone opened a recently purchased mouse recently?


----------



## Twiffle

Anyone who uses this mouse on 1600 DPI and have tracking issues? like sometimes it feels it responds slowly and kinda comes in a little delay when you move your cursor?


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Anyone who uses this mouse on 1600 DPI and have tracking issues? like sometimes it feels it responds slowly and kinda comes in a little delay when you move your cursor?


I had to use my EC1-A on 1600 DPI or it had noticeable input lag, this was a few months back though (I got it in January and ditched it around May, probably.) because it wouldn't stay tracking, it had input lag, my cursor felt wavy, etc.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I had to use my EC1-A on 1600 DPI or it had noticeable input lag, this was a few months back though (I got it in January and ditched it around May, probably.) because it wouldn't stay tracking, it had input lag, my cursor felt wavy, etc.


Yeah I have this kind of issue with my EC2-A. I just received EC1-A. So far it seems to be tracking a bit better? And somehow the coating feels really really nice. Much nicer than on my EC2-A. I just wonder if t he coating will wear off after couple weeks? I have no idea how to clean the mouse without ruining the coating.

I hope my EC1-A that I just received would work just fine on 1600 DPI.. cause else I'll have to try and find another mouse that is similar to it... and that's rather difficult. Deathadder is flatter in my opinion, and I'd just rather avoid that.

Ordered a pair of Hyperglide mouse feet. Hoping to get those this week.

EDIT: After playing CS:GO for 3 hours, my brand new EC1-A does the same delay stuff as my EC2-A did. Got all acceleration stuff turned off, and using raw input. Seems like EC series doesn't perform that well on 1600 DPI. I'm very sad since I liked this mouse a lot T_T'


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Yeah I have this kind of issue with my EC2-A. I just received EC1-A. So far it seems to be tracking a bit better? And somehow the coating feels really really nice. Much nicer than on my EC2-A. I just wonder if t he coating will wear off after couple weeks? I have no idea how to clean the mouse without ruining the coating.
> 
> I hope my EC1-A that I just received would work just fine on 1600 DPI.. cause else I'll have to try and find another mouse that is similar to it... and that's rather difficult. Deathadder is flatter in my opinion, and I'd just rather avoid that.
> 
> Ordered a pair of Hyperglide mouse feet. Hoping to get those this week.
> 
> EDIT: After playing CS:GO for 3 hours, my brand new EC1-A does the same delay stuff as my EC2-A did. Got all acceleration stuff turned off, and using raw input. Seems like EC series doesn't perform that well on 1600 DPI. I'm very sad since I liked this mouse a lot T_T'


It's weird that you get an unusual input delay on 1600 DPI while I got input lag on anything BUT 1600 DPI, as for cleaning the mouse, water on a micro fiber cloth should do the job, by chance do you notice higher input lag on 3200 DPI than on 1600 DPI, and 400 DPI compared to 1600 DPI?

The further my EC1-A was from 1600 DPI, the more input lag I noticed, it was dreadful. I have since picked up a Hori Edge 101 but it's very heavy, same sensor as the DA though and it feels incredible in terms of precision in comparison to the EC1-A.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> It's weird that you get an unusual input delay on 1600 DPI while I got input lag on anything BUT 1600 DPI, as for cleaning the mouse, water on a micro fiber cloth should do the job, by chance do you notice higher input lag on 3200 DPI than on 1600 DPI, and 400 DPI compared to 1600 DPI?
> 
> The further my EC1-A was from 1600 DPI, the more input lag I noticed, it was dreadful. I have since picked up a Hori Edge 101 but it's very heavy, same sensor as the DA though and it feels incredible in terms of precision in comparison to the EC1-A.


on 400 and 3200 it did the same delay. Not really sure why it does that. How big is Hori Edge 101 compared to EC1-A? I'm currently using Logitech G402. Having a bit hard time adapting to it... cause can't seem to find the sweet spot on right side of the mouse to place my ring and pinky finger. At least G402 haven't shown any kind of signs of delay. The sensor seems to be working on it much better than on my EC1/2-A .

This is really sad since I liked the shape of EC series.


----------



## IceAero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> on 400 and 3200 it did the same delay. Not really sure why it does that. How big is Hori Edge 101 compared to EC1-A? I'm currently using Logitech G402. Having a bit hard time adapting to it... cause can't seem to find the sweet spot on right side of the mouse to place my ring and pinky finger. At least G402 haven't shown any kind of signs of delay. The sensor seems to be working on it much better than on my EC1/2-A .
> 
> This is really sad since I liked the shape of EC series.


How are you measuring this supposed delay?

I've tested my EC1-A on all 4 DPIs and can't say I ever noticed a different (either in gameplay or mouse testing software).


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IceAero*
> 
> How are you measuring this supposed delay?
> 
> I've tested my EC1-A on all 4 DPIs and can't say I ever noticed a different (either in gameplay or mouse testing software).


I tested it in-game and on desktop. As I move the mouse, the cursor follows in a delay. Been switching between 500 and 1000hz to see if that would show any difference. Even tried it on different USB ports. in-game it's really noticeable. I tested on mouse tester for the DPi thing and it claims it to be 800 DPI


----------



## coccosoids

If the delay is THAT noticeable - I mean with the naked eye, it's probably more of a driver conflict / windows / port problem than something in the sensor. I can also tell you that I couldn't really get my EC2 A to work on USB3 on my work computer. But USB2 worked ok.

Another thing: does anyone know if I can set the windows cursor speed in smaller increments, like 5.5, or 4.5 instead of 4, 5, 6? Thanks.


----------



## Twiffle

I tried uninstalling old mouse drivers, but still no change. I mean I tried 5 different USB ports, and the same problem still occurs. All my other mice work just fine. G402, Mionix Castor, Zowie ZA13 and G303 . So unless my usb ports somehow are broken I don't know what's going on. Just seems a bit weird to me. I doubt mouse feet could cause this kind of problem either. Also I'm using Zowie G-SR mousepad.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> I tried uninstalling old mouse drivers, but still no change. I mean I tried 5 different USB ports, and the same problem still occurs. All my other mice work just fine. G402, Mionix Castor, Zowie ZA13 and G303 . So unless my usb ports somehow are broken I don't know what's going on. Just seems a bit weird to me. I doubt mouse feet could cause this kind of problem either. Also I'm using Zowie G-SR mousepad.


Only thing the Zowie G-SR pad does is cause Lift off Distance to nearly double. Did you try this on another computer?


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> on 400 and 3200 it did the same delay. Not really sure why it does that. How big is Hori Edge 101 compared to EC1-A? I'm currently using Logitech G402. Having a bit hard time adapting to it... cause can't seem to find the sweet spot on right side of the mouse to place my ring and pinky finger. At least G402 haven't shown any kind of signs of delay. The sensor seems to be working on it much better than on my EC1/2-A .
> 
> This is really sad since I liked the shape of EC series.


It's pretty large, like...DA and Mamba size large, I have very long fingers and it fits in my hand pretty much perfectly. I would measure but I don't have anything to measure my length from palm to tip of middle finger, the measurements (from the website) are 68mm (2.36 in.) x 125mm (4.92 in.) x 40mm (1.57 in.) it's also ambidextrous, so I'm not sure if you want an ergo or ambi mouse.

Also, as for the others, I had an EC1-A and it was very noticeable in terms of input delay, I couldn't really "see" it but I could feel it for sure, however my IME 3.0, G303, Bloody V7MA, and even my Hori Edge do not have as sluggish of a cursor as my EC1-A did.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Only thing the Zowie G-SR pad does is cause Lift off Distance to nearly double. Did you try this on another computer?


Didn't know that about lift off. I don't have another pc to test it on at the moment. Other mice behave like they're supposed to though.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> It's pretty large, like...DA and Mamba size large, I have very long fingers and it fits in my hand pretty much perfectly. I would measure but I don't have anything to measure my length from palm to tip of middle finger, the measurements (from the website) are 68mm (2.36 in.) x 125mm (4.92 in.) x 40mm (1.57 in.) it's also ambidextrous, so I'm not sure if you want an ergo or ambi mouse.
> 
> Also, as for the others, I had an EC1-A and it was very noticeable in terms of input delay, I couldn't really "see" it but I could feel it for sure, however my IME 3.0, G303, Bloody V7MA, and even my Hori Edge do not have as sluggish of a cursor as my EC1-A did.


It seems to be just a bit wider than EC1-A . Wonder if that 68mm means the rear. It should be a bit thinner from middle and front, yeah? Might give it a try next month.. if I can find a seller around EU.

I will give sometime to my EC1-A and see if by any chance hyperglide feet would make a difference...but I highly doubt it will do anything.

So far I've tried couple different mousepads(ulti-mat, QCK+, Roccat Taito, Razer Goliathus speed), blowing a bit to the sensor.. shaking the mouse a bit, but can't hear any rattling. Could it be some sort of smoothing then?

but I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who has this sluggish/delay feeling while using EC1/2-A . I just really love the shape of EC series.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Didn't know that about lift off. I don't have another pc to test it on at the moment. Other mice behave like they're supposed to though.
> It seems to be just a bit wider than EC1-A . Wonder if that 68mm means the rear. It should be a bit thinner from middle and front, yeah? Might give it a try next month.. if I can find a seller around EU.
> 
> I will give sometime to my EC1-A and see if by any chance hyperglide feet would make a difference...but I highly doubt it will do anything.
> 
> So far I've tried couple different mousepads(ulti-mat, QCK+, Roccat Taito, Razer Goliathus speed), blowing a bit to the sensor.. shaking the mouse a bit, but can't hear any rattling. Could it be some sort of smoothing then?
> 
> but I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one who has this sluggish/delay feeling while using EC1/2-A . I just really love the shape of EC series.


It's kind of like an EC series but I'd maybe compare it a little bit more to a ZA series because the hump is closer toward the back of the mouse and not the middle like it is on the EC series iirc? And yeah it's a little bit thinner in the middle and then as it goes toward the front and back of the mouse it widens out, it's sort of like a mix of ergo and ambi, feels nice to palm.


----------



## AuraDesruu

Does anyone know the warranty period for the EC2-A?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AuraDesruu*
> 
> Does anyone know the warranty period for the EC2-A?


I think One Year, possibly Two.


----------



## falcon26

Is the led for the dpi in the scroll wheel or under the mouse? I hope under I hate led


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Is the led for the dpi in the scroll wheel or under the mouse? I hope under I hate led


Scroll wheel is what lights up.


----------



## falcon26

OK forget that mouse then. I went with the ZA12 instead...


----------



## coldc0ffee

I took the LED out of my EC1. Perfect now.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Why is the LED a problem I can't warp my head around. I even have to use the pink one and I couldn't care less about it. To each their own .


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Why is the LED a problem I can't warp my head around. I even have to use the pink one and I couldn't care less about it. To each their own .


Just personal taste. I didn't like having a pink scroll wheel personally. Seems like a pretty odd color when the others are red, blue and green. I would prefer pink the color for 3200 instead of 800 and 800 be either blue or green. To each his own like you said


----------



## hotwheels1997

Yea, I'd love Green for 800dpi. Using an unusual color for a very common dpi step is stupid no matter how you look at it, but it's not like you look at your mouse while playing. Well, I do,since I adjust grip every 10 seconds ,but that's just me.







Transitioning from Palm to Claw is a true struggle.


----------



## maibuN

I read that some are using IE 3.0 Hyperglides with the Zowie EC1-A. I have tried it too but the problem is that the mouse is shaking now. I placed 4 glides under the mouse and if I put it on an even surfe one glide seems to be too thin and has no contact to the surface so that the mouse wiggles. I wasted some Hyperglides to check if maybe the one was just a bad unit but the same problem occured every time.

Has anyone experienced the same problem? Any idea how to fix it?


----------



## Azmath

Well, you can buy the new Hyperglides for EC series from their website. I used I.E. 3.0 hyperglides on my ec2-a and the glide was off. I ordered the ones for EC and those work great. Using my EC2-A since I installed them, after some 40 hours of use they work like a charm. I highly recommend them.


----------



## t1337dude

I have an EC2-A on the way. I'm going to be using a soft pad (QcK Mass). Will I need replacement skates? I hear they wear out fast or have too much friction on cloth.


----------



## Azmath

Well, those stock feet are not that good. The glide on whatever pad i used was inconsistent. Hyperglides are consistent and you will have significantly a better glide and less friction.


----------



## maibuN

I tried the stock feet on a hardpad and on a hybrid pad (SS DeX). On the hardpad the glide was very good, it was way better than with IE 3.0 feet. On the Hybrid pad the friction is extremely high. It was impossible to play with that much friction. The IE 3.0 feet work good on the Hybrid-pad but not very good on the hardpad and also as I said the mouse was shaking.

I am still not sure about EC1-A. It is so small compared to my IE 3.0 mouse that It is hard to get used to it and I don't have very big hands. Maybe a little bit bigger than average but not really big. I don't know where to place the little finger on the EC1-A because it is so short and thin on the right side and my finger scratches the mousepad. Seems the IE 3.0 is still reference but if the EC1-A Hyperglides will fix the gliding problem I will give it a try again.

The best glide I ever experienced was with Razer Deathadder Chroma. It glided perfectly. But other than that it is painful to use because the form is crap.


----------



## Watsyurdeal

So far with the EC1 A, my issues or nit picks have been

1. The scroll wheel is loud

2. There's no finish on the side as far as I can tell, so it's kinda slippery

3. I have a weird issue at times where picking it up is a tad awkward, the mouse feels like it's big enough for my hands since I can rest my palm, pointer and middle finger on the mouse with no trouble. But getting the right grip on the sides is kinda tricky. I think it's possible the shape is either too big or too small for me, I may try the EC2 A later on.

4. The LED on the mouse wheel, really I would prefer it to be on the bottom of the mouse, or go the Ducky Secret route with the firmware. Literally imo the best implementation for a driver less mouse, just wish the the mouse wasn't so heavy.

Other than that I like the mouse, flick shots and twitch aim in general is an absolute breeze, the sensor feels way better than other 3310's out there.


----------



## BlazeGaming

What size are your hands? I've been thinking to buy EC but I'm not sure which one, EC1 A or EC2 A. My hand is 19.5 cm and my grip is hybrid palm.


----------



## Watsyurdeal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BlazeGaming*
> 
> What size are your hands? I've been thinking to buy EC but I'm not sure which one, EC1 A or EC2 A. My hand is 19.5 cm and my grip is hybrid palm.


From my middle finger to the palm of my hand, about 18.5 cm, from my pointer finger to the bottom of thumb, or at least the joint of my hands where my thumb and palm meet, it's about 14 cm. I think the EC2 A would be better for my hands to be honest. I think the EC1 A would be fine for you.


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BlazeGaming*
> 
> What size are your hands? I've been thinking to buy EC but I'm not sure which one, EC1 A or EC2 A. My hand is 19.5 cm and my grip is hybrid palm.


Ec1-a for sure. My hands are just a bit bigger than yours and it's perfect.


----------



## coldc0ffee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Watsyurdeal*
> 
> From my middle finger to the palm of my hand, about 18.5 cm, from my pointer finger to the bottom of thumb, or at least the joint of my hands where my thumb and palm meet, it's about 14 cm. I think the EC2 A would be better for my hands to be honest. I think the EC1 A would be fine for you.


Agreed I'd get the EC2-A of I was you as well. I think you'd find the EC1-A a bit too uncomfortable.


----------



## MLJS54

Does anyone have the new BenQ EC2 / FK1 they'd be interested in trading for a BenQ FK2? Let me know.


----------



## maibuN

I'm trying to get used to the EC1-A but this mouse is just bad I get pain everywhere, my aim is ****ed up and the movement feels weired and I don't know how to rest my hand on it. Seems that my old IE 3.0 at 500 Hz is many times better than the zowie. Any chance I will ever get used to it?







But It is not as weired as Deathadder or Rival so I will go on trying to get used to it.


----------



## SoFGR

^
800dpi

500hz

original LOD mode

hyperglides Z-2

rinse and repeat


----------



## t1337dude

Honestly, I'm not really getting much friction with the stock skates. My EC2-A glides perfectly on my QcK pad. Guess I won't be needing Hyperglides after all.

Also, I love how the EC2-A feels in my 20cm hands. From what it sounds like, most people prefer the mouse to feel big in their hand, but I'm the opposite. I love the small shape. Perfect for gripping in my fingers. Really, it's just a great mouse all around. I'm finding it difficult to find anything worth complaining about.


----------



## maibuN

Which mousepad would you recommend for the EC1-A with hyperglides?

I like how fast hardpads are but my hands stick to them which is very annoying. That's why I have a hybrid pad (Steelseries DeX) but the EC1-A and also the IME 3.0 both with hyperglides still have a bit too much friction espacially fpr very subtile movements with a higher sens. The mouse really sticks to the pad and I need so much force to get it moving that it jumps pixels. With a hardpad the small and subtile movements are very precise but for larger movements the hand sticks to the pad which gives a huge advantage for cloth pads. Any suggestions?

And what is the advantage of 800dpi/500Hz vs 400dpi/1000Hz with this mouse? Will it perform better or why should I use it?


----------



## Watsyurdeal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> Which mousepad would you recommend for the EC1-A with hyperglides?
> 
> I like how fast hardpads are but my hands stick to them which is very annoying. That's why I have a hybrid pad (Steelseries DeX) but the EC1-A and also the IME 3.0 both with hyperglides still have a bit too much friction espacially fpr very subtile movements with a higher sens. The mouse really sticks to the pad and I need so much force to get it moving that it jumps pixels. With a hardpad the small and subtile movements are very precise but for larger movements the hand sticks to the pad which gives a huge advantage for cloth pads. Any suggestions?
> 
> And what is the advantage of 800dpi/500Hz vs 400dpi/1000Hz with this mouse? Will it perform better or why should I use it?


I would recommend using 1000 hz and 400 dpi.

The only time I could really justify using a higher DPI was playing at a high res, like 1440p or 4k, but 400 is sufficient for how I play.

Polling rate should be as high as you can get it, especially if you are using a 144 hz monitor. I would say only use 500 hz if you're playing on a 60 monitor.


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> And what is the advantage of 800dpi/500Hz vs 400dpi/1000Hz with this mouse? Will it perform better or why should I use it?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jss9Zo37MCQ

You can also check this guys video on mousepads I think he has a couple I think.


----------



## agsz

RMA'd chipped trim lens sensor, just got my new Zowie EC1-A (non-BenQ Model), and it has the same defect. This is pretty much a joke now.


----------



## bruzanHD

Here is why higher DPI is better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EplLoJFyTL0


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> Here is why higher DPI is better:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EplLoJFyTL0


400 dpi vs 1600 dpi on my DA felt no different.


----------



## bruzanHD

The DA is interpolated though. 1800 native.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> The DA is interpolated though. 1800 native.


You're saying on the Deathadder 2013/Chroma (Avago-ADNS-3988/3989), the native is 1800 DPI, or on the older Deathadder models? There's multiple threads on this forum regarding the Native DPI, and the only answer people came up with, is that the Native DPI == Sensor's MAX DPI.


----------



## maibuN

That means 3200 dpi and 1000 Hz with a therefore lower ingame sens would be the best setting for the EC1-A from a technical view?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> That means 3200 dpi and 1000 Hz with a therefore lower ingame sens would be the best setting for the EC1-A from a technical view?


I'm pretty sure all DPI steps on the Zowie mice are 'Native' steps, since they're not interpolated. Have you tried 800 DPI @ 500Hz yet to compare? Curious if you read about that on ESReality.com forums like I did. 400 DPI felt like trash compared to 800 DPI just now, but I still can't shake the feeling that something it awfully wrong with this mouse, it feels like the sensor is complete crap compared to my Deathadder 2013/Chroma.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I'm pretty sure all DPI steps on the Zowie mice are 'Native' steps, since they're not interpolated. Have you tried 800 DPI @ 500Hz yet to compare? Curious if you read about that on ESReality.com forums like I did. 400 DPI felt like trash compared to 800 DPI just now, but I still can't shake the feeling that something it awfully wrong with this mouse, it feels like the sensor is complete crap compared to my Deathadder 2013/Chroma.


2013 and Chroma uses better sensor than EC-series so that could be also why it feels that way . Although I tested myself 2 EC1-A's and it felt really sluggish and aiming required more effort. My EC2-A has the same problem. Even compared to other 3310. Funnily my FK2 feels way better than EC ones.(performance/sensor wise) It just feels like there's some sort of delay with the sensor on EC series or something.

Many people say positive things about EC-A's . Could it just be that we've gotten "lucky" and gotten defects







I kinda feel like taking a 3rd gamble and see if the 3rd one behaves same way. Although for 3rd one I'd prolly order it from Amazon, instead of a local gaming/pc store.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> 2013 and Chroma uses better sensor than EC-series so that could be also why it feels that way . Although I tested myself 2 EC1-A's and it felt really sluggish and aiming required more effort. My EC2-A has the same problem. Even compared to other 3310. Funnily my FK2 feels way better than EC ones.(performance/sensor wise) It just feels like there's some sort of delay with the sensor on EC series or something.
> 
> Many people say positive things about EC-A's . Could it just be that we've gotten "lucky" and gotten defects
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kinda feel like taking a 3rd gamble and see if the 3rd one behaves same way. Although for 3rd one I'd prolly order it from Amazon, instead of a local gaming/pc store.


I got an EC1-A and I had serious swamp cursor, like...I couldn't hit anything, I tried everything I could to get it to feel correct to me, different pads, even no pad at all and just my desk (I know it's bad for the feet but I was desperate, I didn't want to go back to my 3305-DK) and I could NOT for the life of me find something that fit me well. I would get skipping randomly on some generic red pad, I had serious swamp cursor on my P-TF Speed, something was just off, it felt like the movement was being processed artificially or something.

Guess all three of us are just lucky with our defects.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> 2013 and Chroma uses better sensor than EC-series so that could be also why it feels that way . Although I tested myself 2 EC1-A's and it felt really sluggish and aiming required more effort. My EC2-A has the same problem. Even compared to other 3310. Funnily my FK2 feels way better than EC ones.(performance/sensor wise) It just feels like there's some sort of delay with the sensor on EC series or something.
> 
> Many people say positive things about EC-A's . Could it just be that we've gotten "lucky" and gotten defects
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kinda feel like taking a 3rd gamble and see if the 3rd one behaves same way. Although for 3rd one I'd prolly order it from Amazon, instead of a local gaming/pc store.


The SteelSeries Rival I had didn't feel as sluggish as this, which is odd. Using 800 DPI definitely improved it, and changing it to the Higher LoD setting, since I'm coming from a Deathadder 2013/Chroma. Did yours have a chipped trim lens by any chance? Here's some pics I took today; also including my old Zowie EC1-A that I RMA'd. It's like they purposely gave me another defective unit, it's a pretty unbelievable coincidence.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I got an EC1-A and I had serious swamp cursor, like...I couldn't hit anything, I tried everything I could to get it to feel correct to me, different pads, even no pad at all and just my desk (I know it's bad for the feet but I was desperate, I didn't want to go back to my 3305-DK) and I could NOT for the life of me find something that fit me well. I would get skipping randomly on some generic red pad, I had serious swamp cursor on my P-TF Speed, something was just off, it felt like the movement was being processed artificially or something.
> 
> Guess all three of us are just lucky with our defects.


Yeah that's unlucky. I also tried it on a plain black cloth pad(Qck+) and then on my G-SR(blue one). Even tried hyperglide skates to see if it made difference and the cursor still felt weird to me. My other mice perform and behave normally though.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> The SteelSeries Rival I had didn't feel as sluggish as this, which is odd. Using 800 DPI definitely improved it, and changing it to the Higher LoD setting, since I'm coming from a Deathadder 2013/Chroma. Did yours have a chipped trim lens by any chance? Here's some pics I took today; also including my old Zowie EC1-A that I RMA'd. It's like they purposely gave me another defective unit, it's a pretty unbelievable coincidence.


I just checked the lens and it does look same as in your picture. Perhaps they sent you the same mouse that you RMA'd. Highly doubt it's supposed to look like that. Apart from the trimmed lens, when I squeeze the mouse lightly it squeeks from the sides. It feels like the screws are a bit loose. My FK2 feels just fine and the lens on it looks normal.

I guess I'll wait until they start reselling BenQ models and get one of those to try my luck for the third time.(the EC-A's I own is the white/black ones)


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Yeah that's unlucky. I also tried it on a plain black cloth pad(Qck+) and then on my G-SR(blue one). Even tried hyperglide skates to see if it made difference and the cursor still felt weird to me. My other mice perform and behave normally though.
> I just checked the lens and it does look same as in your picture. Perhaps they sent you the same mouse that you RMA'd. Highly doubt it's supposed to look like that. Apart from the trimmed lens, when I squeeze the mouse lightly it squeeks from the sides. It feels like the screws are a bit loose. My FK2 feels just fine and the lens on it looks normal.
> 
> I guess I'll wait until they start reselling BenQ models and get one of those to try my luck for the third time.(the EC-A's I own is the white/black ones)


Different serial numbers. I just saw them tweet about Rexflo.net re-stocking the Zowie BenQ models..Why would they advertise those models when there's a mass recall for them?


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Different serial numbers. I just saw them tweet about Rexflo.net re-stocking the Zowie BenQ models..Why would they advertise those models when there's a mass recall for them?


As far as I know they just switched back to huanos, cause omrons caused double click issues. It's been couple weeks since they announced the recall. Just waiting to be able to get it from Amazon (europe). Checked facebook/twitter and Zowie said that the ones at Rexflo are with huano switches. I guess I'll have to wait for about a month before I can get one.







I'm only interested in the BenQ model cause of the "better" scroll wheel. And well hoping that I don't get another EC-A that feels sluggish


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> As far as I know they just switched back to huanos, cause omrons caused double click issues. It's been couple weeks since they announced the recall. Just waiting to be able to get it from Amazon (europe). Checked facebook/twitter and Zowie said that the ones at Rexflo are with huano switches. I guess I'll have to wait for about a month before I can get one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm only interested in the BenQ model cause of the "better" scroll wheel. And well hoping that I don't get another EC-A that feels sluggish


All they needed to do was fix the Mouse 4 + Mouse 5, and scroll wheel, and it would have been fine. I think they're going to be selling the Black/White Zowie mice for now? Unless they somehow produced the new colorway with Huano Switches in the last week or two since the recall. I might of completely misunderstood this though


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> All they needed to do was fix the Mouse 4 + Mouse 5, and scroll wheel, and it would have been fine. I think they're going to be selling the Black/White Zowie mice for now? Unless they somehow produced the new colorway with Huano Switches in the last week or two since the recall. I might of completely misunderstood this though


The way the mouse is constructed there is no way to fix the m4 and m5 buttons. In order to get a better feel for the click there would need to be a separate board for the side buttons and the switches would need to be turned 90 degrees.


----------



## maibuN

I switch forth and back between EC1-A and IME 3.0 many times during the last weeks. Switching back to the IME 3.0 feels so nice everytime. Much more comfort for playing longer and also more consistent aim. Do you think I can still use IME 3.0? I heard the perfect control speed would be very low (1.5m/[email protected]). Is this enough for cs go with 2.7 ingame sens for fast turning and precise flickshots? Or will I hit the max. speed very often? I can't really imagine how fast I move my mouse but 1,5m/s sounds extremely slow or is that ok? Thats the only thing which prevents me from just keeping IME3.0 and selling the EC1-A because I don't want to use a mouse which is technically outdated.


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> The way the mouse is constructed there is no way to fix the m4 and m5 buttons. In order to get a better feel for the click there would need to be a separate board for the side buttons and the switches would need to be turned 90 degrees.


Excuse me if I am wrong, but don't they use almost exactly the same shape as the deathadder? yet somehow the deathadder can make the side buttons be good/feel good?


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> I switch forth and back between EC1-A and IME 3.0 many times during the last weeks. Switching back to the IME 3.0 feels so nice everytime. Much more comfort for playing longer and also more consistent aim. Do you think I can still use IME 3.0? I heard the perfect control speed would be very low (1.5m/[email protected]). Is this enough for cs go with 2.7 ingame sens for fast turning and precise flickshots? Or will I hit the max. speed very often? I can't really imagine how fast I move my mouse but 1,5m/s sounds extremely slow or is that ok? Thats the only thing which prevents me from just keeping IME3.0 and selling the EC1-A because I don't want to use a mouse which is technically outdated.


2.7 is pretty high, I don't think you will have problem with the 3.0 at that sens.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> All they needed to do was fix the Mouse 4 + Mouse 5, and scroll wheel, and it would have been fine. I think they're going to be selling the Black/White Zowie mice for now? Unless they somehow produced the new colorway with Huano Switches in the last week or two since the recall. I might of completely misunderstood this though


Yeah well I only read from their facebook comments that the ones at Rexflo are with huanos. At least that's what I understood from it. Could be black/white ones as well.


----------



## Watsyurdeal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> I switch forth and back between EC1-A and IME 3.0 many times during the last weeks. Switching back to the IME 3.0 feels so nice everytime. Much more comfort for playing longer and also more consistent aim. Do you think I can still use IME 3.0? I heard the perfect control speed would be very low (1.5m/[email protected]). Is this enough for cs go with 2.7 ingame sens for fast turning and precise flickshots? Or will I hit the max. speed very often? I can't really imagine how fast I move my mouse but 1,5m/s sounds extremely slow or is that ok? Thats the only thing which prevents me from just keeping IME3.0 and selling the EC1-A because I don't want to use a mouse which is technically outdated.


Honestly, and I am being dead serious here. I wouldn't worry about outdated.

I have a Deathadder 3.5g that still works and the ONLY reasons I do not use it is because I would need Synapse running all the time to keep it at 400 DPI, and the shape is a bit too tall with not enough of a steep curve to it.

If the IME 3.0 feels the best, then stick with it, as long as it still works what does it matter?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daunow*
> 
> Excuse me if I am wrong, but don't they use almost exactly the same shape as the deathadder? yet somehow the deathadder can make the side buttons be good/feel good?


Shape is insignificant.

DA has a separate circuit board thats attached to the main board via cables. A lot of mice have this approach - mx500-g400s, g303, g402, g502 etc.

The ec series uses the same layout as the ie3.0 did for example. the switches are on the same sensor circuit and their actuation point is different. Because of this design the buttons feel mushy but in reality there is nothing wrong with them.

Let me explain. On most mice side buttons press directly onto the switch, making the click feel crisp. On the ec2 the press is transfered through a pivot, that translates side movement of the button into up down movement of the actuator that clicks the switch.

Now I a not saiyng you cant make a separate board for the side buttons, but i doubt it the ec series in its current form will ever get this, as the shall has to be modified by a great extent. Not worthwhile doing unless you release a totally new product i guess


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Shape is insignificant.
> 
> DA has a separate circuit board thats attached to the main board via cables. A lot of mice have this approach - mx500-g400s, g303, g402, g502 etc.
> 
> The ec series uses the same layout as the ie3.0 did for example. the switches are on the same sensor circuit and their actuation point is different. Because of this design the buttons feel mushy but in reality there is nothing wrong with them.
> 
> Let me explain. On most mice side buttons press directly onto the switch, making the click feel crisp. On the ec2 the press is transfered through a pivot, that translates side movement of the button into up down movement of the actuator that clicks the switch.
> 
> Now I a not saiyng you cant make a separate board for the side buttons, but i doubt it the ec series in its current form will ever get this, as the shall has to be modified by a great extent. Not worthwhile doing unless you release a totally new product i guess


Just curious, do you know the framerate at which the Deathadder 2013/Chroma runs at, as well as the Avago ADNS-3310 Zowie mice? Curious to see how much higher the Deathadder sensor's framerate is.


----------



## qsxcv

3988/3989 has 3 framerate steps: roughly 3000,7000,12500

3310 has 3 steps: roughly 2000, 4000, 6500


----------



## bruzanHD

Does the LED on the scroll wheel affect tracking? Like if I were to remove it would it still work?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> 3988/3989 has 3 framerate steps: roughly 3000,7000,12500
> 
> 3310 has 3 steps: roughly 2000, 4000, 6500


Thank you! Googling yielded me no results









I'm trying to force myself to use this mouse, trying 800 DPI @ 1000Hz (Highest LoD since coming from DeathAdder), but it just doesn't feel half as precise as the Deathadder sensor, it's almost as if I'm being restricted or something, I can't really explain it.

Apparently Zowie has already made the Zowie/BenQ black/red mice, with the old internals but the 16-step scroll wheel. They offered to take this Zowie EC1-A back and give me the new Zowie/BenQ model. Is it worth shipping and waiting again for just a different scroll wheel?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Thank you! Googling yielded me no results
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm trying to force myself to use this mouse, trying 800 DPI @ 1000Hz (Highest LoD since coming from DeathAdder), but it just doesn't feel half as precise as the Deathadder sensor, it's almost as if I'm being restricted or something, I can't really explain it.
> 
> Apparently Zowie has already made the Zowie/BenQ black/red mice, with the old internals but the 16-step scroll wheel. They offered to take this Zowie EC1-A back and give me the new Zowie/BenQ model. Is it worth shipping and waiting again for just a different scroll wheel?


I personally dont like the 16 step wheel. It makes day to day tasks that more tedius. In game it does offer better consistency and feel though. Still I prefer Logitech optical encoder design.


----------



## maibuN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> The SteelSeries Rival I had didn't feel as sluggish as this, which is odd. Using 800 DPI definitely improved it, and changing it to the Higher LoD setting, since I'm coming from a Deathadder 2013/Chroma. Did yours have a chipped trim lens by any chance? Here's some pics I took today; also including my old Zowie EC1-A that I RMA'd. It's like they purposely gave me another defective unit, it's a pretty unbelievable coincidence.


My trim lense looks the same









Edit* I asked zowie. The trim lense is fine so don't worry. -> "This "chip" is not a defect. All our current mice will have this, even the new ZOWIE BenQ line."


----------



## maibuN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> 2.7 is pretty high, I don't think you will have problem with the 3.0 at that sens.


Hi again. I was still a bit unsure about the 1.5 m/s of the IME3.0 so I took a meter and stopwatch and did some tests. I think 1.5 m/s is quite slow. I am pretty sure I do awp flickshots much faster sometimes even with my "high" 2.7 sensitivity. Maybe this is why I had the impression from the beginning that the EC1-A is much better for playing with awp. But I also came to the conclusion the EC1-A is too small (short) for me. I do palm grip and I have 19.5 cm hands and I can't rest the hand comortly on the EC1-A. If I put my hand on the EC1-A like I did on the 3.0 it feels the mouse is way too short so I have to do a little bit of a mix between palm and fingertip which gives me less control over the mouse.


----------



## HAGGARD

Reminder that you can flick faster than that - only the sensitivity will cap there. Which... 1.5m/s = ~23622 counts per second * (2.7 * 0.022) = ~1403° per second. What is the effective flick range? Assuming 90° FOV, maximum 45° effective flick range. 1403 / 45 = ~31; 1000 / 31 = ~32 - i. e. you can flick 45° in 32 milliseconds. Sounds fast enough, considering on dust2 double doors when someone is running @ 250 units per second and you want to flick him through the door you have like 400 milliseconds for that (slit to mid-door is ~100 units). Should be enough to fit in generous 250ms reaction time and that flick is what, 5-10°? = ~4-7ms flickability with the MLT04. Can even add the ~10ms button delay without even getting close to ruining your flick chances there.

I know zoom sens is different but it comes out the same as FOV decreased too.


----------



## Eutheran

Are all the DPI steps on this mouse native? ex. 1600


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eutheran*
> 
> Are all the DPI steps on this mouse native? ex. 1600


Yes, they are all native.


----------



## Eutheran

So then is there any reason to play at lower dpi? If that's the case shouldn't everyone play at max native dpi and low sensitivity? I suppose if the frame rate is high it makes the most sense for pixel perfect tracking.


----------



## falcon26

Do the new BENQ version mice still have the LED on the scroll wheel as opposed to the bottom of the mouse like on the ZA series?


----------



## Watsyurdeal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Do the new BENQ version mice still have the LED on the scroll wheel as opposed to the bottom of the mouse like on the ZA series?


Yes, still on the mouse wheel


----------



## Stats

I once tried an fk1 and found it to be too narrow, too hard to press m1 and the scroll wheel was insanely hard to scroll, I guess ec1-a isnt much wider, but what about the scroll wheel? And which scroll is better? benq one or the old one? I know benq is 16notch but i really don't know what that entails, i saw people say that it's harder to scroll but "somehow feels better"... I would need to wait for the benq one for quite a long time since it's nowhere to be found in shops here. For reference, i really love the da2013 scroll wheel, i hope the ec1-a is somewhere close to that


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eutheran*
> 
> So then is there any reason to play at lower dpi? If that's the case shouldn't everyone play at max native dpi and low sensitivity? I suppose if the frame rate is high it makes the most sense for pixel perfect tracking.


Yes that is correct, you should be playing at highest native CPI, however it isn't necessary. You should play at the highest one you can tollerate and then crank down your in game sens.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> Yes that is correct, you should be playing at highest native CPI, however it isn't necessary. You should play at the highest one you can tollerate and then crank down your in game sens.


Isn't there any issue with the Source Engine, in regards to using under 1 sensitivity? eg: 0.95 sens @ 800 DPI ~ 0.475 sens @ 1600 DPI


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Isn't there any issue with the Source Engine, in regards to using under 1 sensitivity? eg: 0.95 sens @ 800 DPI ~ 0.475 sens @ 1600 DPI


No, your mouse will be noticeably less jittery, assuming the CPI step you are using is native.


----------



## coccosoids

Is there a petition somewhere to sign to get this mouse at 11.2cm length or someting like that?!


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> Is there a petition somewhere to sign to get this mouse at 11.2cm length or someting like that?!


Lol. People want even smaller mice now.. Ec3-a.

I think we need an ec1,5-a at 123 or 125 mm.


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Lol. People want even smaller mice now.. Ec3-a.
> 
> I think we need an ec1,5-a at 123 or 125 mm.


I don't get the lol. The ec 2 a would be too big for half the blokes I know, unless they were using palm grip. The ec 1 a is even bigger.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> I don't get the lol. The ec 2 a would be too big for half the blokes I know, unless they were using palm grip. The ec 1 a is even bigger.


Maybe your hands are smaller then. Everyone I know has man hands and need something bigger. I thought my hands were average to small, but they're 19/19,5 cm. Apparently not then.


----------



## frewp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coccosoids*
> 
> I don't get the lol. The ec 2 a would be too big for half the blokes I know, unless they were using palm grip. The ec 1 a is even bigger.


EC2-A is a small mouse dude. The Kinzu is only 3mm smaller in length and everything thinks that mouse is super small, but that's because the hump on the EC2-A makes the mouse a bit bigger.
I don't know anybody that would think the mouse is too big, pretty much everyone I know says my EC2-A is small

If you want a small mouse and you claw a lot, then get an FK2


----------



## t1337dude

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if the EC2-A was a little smaller. It wasn't as small as I thought it was going to be based on what I heard, but it's definitely smaller than the average mouse.


----------



## maibuN

I have 19,5 cm hands and find EC1-A very small. SS Rival and IME 3.0 in comparison are much bigger. Maybe need EC0-A









Is the perfect control speed dependent on the DPI steps? Will the it be lower on the higher DPI steps (1600 and 3200)? I read that often as the reason for net maxing out dpi and the reason why pros play low dpi. I think they prefer higher PCS over higher DPI? Or is it a myth? Maybe someone has some information.


----------



## Maximillion

In some older sensors that was the case, not so with the 3310.


----------



## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frewp*
> 
> EC2-A is a small mouse dude. The Kinzu is only 3mm smaller in length and everything thinks that mouse is super small, but that's because the hump on the EC2-A makes the mouse a bit bigger.
> I don't know anybody that would think the mouse is too big, pretty much everyone I know says my EC2-A is small
> 
> If you want a small mouse and you claw a lot, then get an FK2


No it's not. It's not just mouse dimensions. On paper. If you take into account grip style, hand size and scroll wheel placement then with all these factors combined I can say the ec2 a is fairly big. Try to fingertip grip this one in an office / windows environment or rather other games than 3d shooters. If the scroll wheel was maybe placed maybe 1 cm back and the mouse was a few mm shorter in height then it would feel like something else entirely.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Hope they release a 3360 version. As much as I love the EC2-A, the 3310 sensor has more smoothing than my DA 2013's S3988 . It's very noticeable in Windows and it bugs the hell out of me. Any ideas when or if it'll get released?


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Hope they release a 3360 version. As much as I love the EC2-A, the 3310 sensor has more smoothing than my DA 2013's S3988 . It's very noticeable in Windows and it bugs the hell out of me. Any ideas when or if it'll get released?


When they discontinue the 3310. The 3360 isn't a priority for me, though.


----------



## flaxe

Is there any way to see what switches the mouse use? It's the EC2-A. I pre-ordered it when they first got available for pre-order in Sweden like 2 months ago and I received it today... but I'm wondering if it got the double-clicking Omrons or the Huano ones. So, you guys know any easy way to find out or maybe I just have to contact the reseller.


----------



## falcon26

I wish when they make a new revision they put the LED on the bottom of the mouse like the ZA series. That LED on the scroll wheel kills it for me.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flaxe*
> 
> Is there any way to see what switches the mouse use? It's the EC2-A. I pre-ordered it when they first got available for pre-order in Sweden like 2 months ago and I received it today... but I'm wondering if it got the double-clicking Omrons or the Huano ones. So, you guys know any easy way to find out or maybe I just have to contact the reseller.


Yea contact the seller,i would presume it's the latest batch though. Unless that seller just pumped out the Omron version anyway, since you did order 2 months ago.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> I wish when they make a new revision they put the LED on the bottom of the mouse like the ZA series. That LED on the scroll wheel kills it for me.


They will change that i believe, it was one thing that was adressed by users as soon as the mouse came out, they said they used the legacy shell & what not so that's why it stayed. A red scroll to go with the logo would be nice, along with a scroll wheel fix so they have less issues with it.


----------



## flaxe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Yea contact the seller,i would presume it's the latest batch though. Unless that seller just pumped out the Omron version anyway, since you did order 2 months ago.


Yep. I contacted the seller which said it should be the new version with Huano switches, at least that's what they most recently heard from Zowie. But I just think it's so early in time, because according to the recall announcement from Zowie they say "models are underway with the adoption of the Huano switches and delivery of these modified models is expected to resume by *end of March*."

I guess I'll just start using the mouse and hope I don't have to return it later because of double clicks







The buttons feel pretty easy to click though, way easier than my previous SteelSeries Kana, and from my understanding the Huano switches are supposed to require more force than most others?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> I wish when they make a new revision they put the LED on the bottom of the mouse like the ZA series. That LED on the scroll wheel kills it for me.


I agree with you on this one. Just plugged in the mouse and the LED is much brighter than I thought it would be, but I don't think it will be disturbing. Or maybe they should give us the option to disable/change brightness of the LED.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flaxe*
> 
> Yep. I contacted the seller which said it should be the new version with Huano switches, at least that's what they most recently heard from Zowie. But I just think it's so early in time, because according to the recall announcement from Zowie they say "models are underway with the adoption of the Huano switches and delivery of these modified models is expected to resume by *end of March*."
> 
> I guess I'll just start using the mouse and hope I don't have to return it later because of double clicks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The buttons feel pretty easy to click though, way easier than my previous SteelSeries Kana, and from my understanding the Huano switches are supposed to require more force than most others?
> I agree with you on this one. Just plugged in the mouse and the LED is much brighter than I thought it would be, but I don't think it will be disturbing. Or maybe they should give us the option to disable/change brightness of the LED.


On their twitter they said that some stores already have the Latest ones with Huano switches, such as Rexflo. So you should be good. Keep the fingers crossed.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> When they discontinue the 3310. The 3360 isn't a priority for me, though.


3310 is good by itself without a single doubt, but after playing for a long time with the snappier S3988 and short period with the 3366, one can notice it's smoothing quite a bit.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> 3310 is good by itself without a single doubt, but after playing for a long time with the snappier S3988 and short period with the 3366, one can notice it's smoothing quite a bit.


I doubt Zowie is gonna take thatttttt long to hop on the train, I really think an announcement will be made by June/July at the latest, then released around November or so just in time for the holiday's.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> 3310 is good by itself without a single doubt, but after playing for a long time with the snappier S3988 and short period with the 3366, one can notice it's smoothing quite a bit.


So do you think 3988 > 3310 as well? I


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> So do you think 3988 > 3310 as well? I


Technically speaking, yes.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Technically speaking, yes.


I hated the EC1-A at first, coming from a Deathadder. But after a week of not being on the PC, and forcing myself to use the EC1-A for a few days, it actually feels a lot better, besides the insanely stiff Mouse 1 + Mouse 2. Now I'm unsure about the 3988 vs 3310 thing.


----------



## popups

I haven't heard the EC1 having "insanely stiff" buttons, especially after the lighter Huano switches replaced the heavy Huano switches.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I hated the EC1-A at first, coming from a Deathadder. But after a week of not being on the PC, and forcing myself to use the EC1-A for a few days, it actually feels a lot better, besides the insanely stiff Mouse 1 + Mouse 2. Now I'm unsure about the 3988 vs 3310 thing.


Seems like you've missed a few years of OCN discussion and findings







They are very similar, based on the same architecture (9800 family), but 3988 has higher framerate


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I haven't heard the EC1 having "insanely stiff" buttons, especially after the lighter Huano switches replaced the heavy Huano switches.


Its just that the deathadder has light switches. For me EC series is too light


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I haven't heard the EC1 having "insanely stiff" buttons, especially after the lighter Huano switches replaced the heavy Huano switches.


I'm using my Zowie AM right now and I don't really think the clicks are that stiff or anything.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I'm using my Zowie AM right now and I don't really think the clicks are that stiff or anything.


For me the best click feeling is either the g303 or g302 from logitech, or the right mouse click on the rival 300. Left is not near as good


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I hated the EC1-A at first, coming from a Deathadder. But after a week of not being on the PC, and forcing myself to use the EC1-A for a few days, it actually feels a lot better, besides the insanely stiff Mouse 1 + Mouse 2. Now I'm unsure about the 3988 vs 3310 thing.


Buttons are much better than the ones on the DA ,for me at least. I was unable to claw the DA because of how tight I hold my mouse ,which resulted in missclicks all over the place. The stiffness on the EC2-A is a life saver.
Both are good,but I prefer a "raw"er feel and I think the 3988 delivers more of it,because of the higher framerate. It's one step closer to the 3366,which is miles away concerning the smoothing feel.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I haven't heard the EC1 having "insanely stiff" buttons, especially after the lighter Huano switches replaced the heavy Huano switches.


Since when does Zowie use the lighter Huanos? I don't remember exactly, was it with with EC eVo CL?


----------



## MLJS54

I received the new(est), post-recall BenQ EC2-A earlier today. Can confirm it's using what I think are the same Huanos as in the older black & white versions. BenQ direct / Rexflo have some of the latest Huano versions in stock in the US.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> I received the new(est), post-recall BenQ EC2-A earlier today. Can confirm it's using what I think are the same Huanos as in the older black & white versions. BenQ direct / Rexflo have some of the latest Huano versions in stock in the US.


So it's just different colors + new mousewheel now, that's it right?


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> So it's just different colors + new mousewheel now, that's it right?


Just like the CL series.

This shouldn't be surprising to anyone if it is. Not the first time they've done it.


----------



## detto87

IMHO the soon to be discontinued (or already discontinued) black&white version with 24-step wheels are the ones to get, as long as you can. I don't want a 16-step wheel for bhop or web scrolling. And I don't need or want black&red instead of black&white nor a BenQ logo.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> IMHO the soon to be discontinued (or already discontinued) black&white version with 24-step wheels are the ones to get, as long as you can. I don't want a 16-step wheel for bhop or web scrolling. And I don't need or want black&red instead of black&white nor a BenQ logo.


I have one of the older Zowie mice with a 16 step wheel and mine is really really stiff, but that's because of a design thing apparently, so don't quote me on it.


----------



## Stats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> IMHO the soon to be discontinued (or already discontinued) black&white version with 24-step wheels are the ones to get, as long as you can. I don't want a 16-step wheel for bhop or web scrolling. And I don't need or want black&red instead of black&white nor a BenQ logo.


seeing how the 24 step wheels have a tendency to bug out and scroll randomly causing you to jump in game, 16 step wheels are even more insanely stiff, the stiff buttons on zowie mice because of huanos, and finalmouse still being a total mess that requires you to send it back 3 times for a chance at a decent one, guess ill have to stick to my da2013 that starts double clicking randomly every once in a while







and pray fm does something right with the scream one


----------



## falcon26

They have not re done the mouse yet so the led for dpi is below the mouse yet have they?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> They have not re done the mouse yet so the led for dpi is below the mouse yet have they?


Led is still present sir.


----------



## Sinnthetic

Would you guys get an EC2-A if you only play MOBAs?
The shape and build quality really attract me, but I've heard Huanos aren't ideal.
Does anyone find the difference to be really noticeable between Huanos and Omrons?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sinnthetic*
> 
> Would you guys get an EC2-A if you only play MOBAs?
> The shape and build quality really attract me, but I've heard Huanos aren't ideal.
> Does anyone find the difference to be really noticeable between Huanos and Omrons?


Came from a DA ,a mouse with very light clicks. My EC2-A has stiffer clicks all around,but the left clicks presents no problems when it comes to spamming. My right button is much stiffer and spamming it can get tiresome.


----------



## MLJS54

I have an extra latest red and black huanos EC2-A if anyone is interested. Threw it up FS in the classified section.


----------



## agsz

Anyone experience double-clicking with the Black/White Zowie EC1-A/EC2-A? It's been a bit colder here (~40° F) and dry, and I've noticed my EC1-A double clicking. It's a little over ~2 weeks old, and I've used my electric duster on it already to rule out that being the issue.


----------



## daviddave1

Just bought the new BENQ ZA11 at http://www.esportstore.com/mice/zowie-by-benq/za11-mouse-1

store is in sweden. you can pay with paypal. Total cost: 81.08 €

I checked with them on facebook in a PM: "It's the new Zowie by BenQ ZA11 with the Huano switches and the new red logo. This is the first batch after the recall."

anyone knows a site where the new GSR is? with paypal option? in Europe.


----------



## kayzer

Heard that ec-a series with the 3310 has 4ms smoothing is this performance wise worse then the s3898 in the da chroma?

Enviado do meu A0001 através de Tapatalk


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kayzer*
> 
> Heard that ec-a series with the 3310 has 4ms smoothing is this performance wise worse then the s3898 in the da chroma?
> 
> Enviado do meu A0001 através de Tapatalk


'

Depends on if smoothing is good for your play styke. IE AWPing and pistoling is much easier with smoothing, where as apraying is not.


----------



## daunow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daviddave1*
> 
> Total cost: 81.08 €


that's kinda of a lot of money
jesus..


----------



## hotwheels1997

Hello. A review I made of this mouse ,while comparing it to the DA. A lot of people want to see a size comparison between them, I have that in.


----------



## RaleighStClair

I wonder when Zowie will fix the side buttons? They are terrible compared to comparable mice (deathdder,Rival,etc.). The mouse-wheel could use some love as well. If they could fix these two obvious issues then I think the Zowie ec1-a would be the best mouse on the market (for pplwith big hands







) followed by the DA.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaleighStClair*
> 
> I wonder when Zowie will fix the side buttons? They are terrible compared to comparable mice (deathdder,Rival,etc.). The mouse-wheel could use some love as well. If they could fix these two obvious issues then I think the Zowie ec1-a would be the best mouse on the market (for pplwith big hands
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) followed by the DA.


Despite the scroll wheel issue, i feel it still is the best option overall for big hands with the Rival & Da certainly in the mix there. The side buttons do not bother me at all.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Despite the scroll wheel issue, i feel it still is the best option overall for big hands with the Rival & Da certainly in the mix there. The side buttons do not bother me at all.


+1 Ec1-a is such a nice shape.


----------



## hotwheels1997

They aren't as crisp as on other mice,but they get the job done just fine. Scroll wheel is very sturdy on my example and friends with the EC1/2-A series have no problems with it . eVo models had big problems,if I recall correctly. So, in fact,they did address these issues.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

The only downside for me personally as far as testing wise against the DA & Rival, is that i feel the Zowie sensor is not as responsive compared to those 2. I love the mouse, it's just not as snappy & solid as the others, but the shape is the best of them, with the Rival second then the DA 3rd. The DA is just a smidgen too short, although if it was not pointy on the edges it would be just fine(like the Zowie)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> They aren't as crisp as on other mice,but they get the job done just fine. Scroll wheel is very sturdy on my example and friends with the EC1/2-A series have no problems with it . eVo models had big problems,if I recall correctly. So, in fact,they did address these issues.


So far the scroll wheel is solid, 0 issues with it. Some may dislkike how loud it is, but i could care less honestly. If it lasts longer than 6-12 months?? Time will tell.

Only thing i am really interested in now is seeing how i like the Ec2-A vs the Ec1-A, my hands should decifer that quickly. I do tend to like smaller mice like the Ergo FM for instance.


----------



## hotwheels1997

That is unfortunately true. The Zowie sensor doesn't feel as snappy and direct as the sensor in the DA ,can't comment on the Rival. It's a combination of the fact that 800dpi on the Zowie is less than 800dpi on my DA,which gives the impression that the cursor is moving slower + the framerate is lower. I know,for a fact, that the sensor in the G303 is much crispier and direct too.


----------



## RaleighStClair

The scroll-wheel and side-buttons really aren't good enough. Like others mentioned they are serviceable at best but are pretty bad compared to other mice in the same bracket/price range -- as mentioned above. I wish they would just fix it, as it is one of the major issue people have with the mice, and surely BenQ is aware of this.

Also I wouldn't mind have the option to change the color of the mouse-wheel as well. It's a vanity feature but I think would be a nice addition to the mouse, but isn't really a priority.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaleighStClair*
> 
> The scroll-wheel and side-buttons really aren't good enough. Like others mentioned they are serviceable at best but are pretty bad compared to other mice in the same bracket/price range -- as mentioned above. I wish they would just fix it, as it is one of the major issue people have with the mice, and surely BenQ is aware of this.
> 
> Also I wouldn't mind have the option to change the color of the mouse-wheel as well. It's a vanity feature but I think would be a nice addition to the mouse, but isn't really a priority.


I have my $ on the mouse having a solid black or red scroll on the next iteration. The LED scroll will be gone, betting a snickers on it.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> I have my $ on the mouse having a solid black or red scroll on the next iteration. The LED scroll will be gone, betting a snickers on it.


You're not yourself when you're hungry


----------



## starmanwarz

A week ago I received a Rival 300. It's a decent mouse and I quite like it but I am finding its shape a bit weird. I have 20cm hands and previously I had a DA13 and an FK1. Loved the DA shape, hated the FK1's.

Anyway, I was initially sold on the ec1-a but I couldn't find it anywhere so I bought the Rival and I am now considering getting the ec1-a to try it (it's back in stock). Shape wise, is it better? Also, some comments above mention that the sensor isn't as snappy as the DA's and the Rival's, is that true?

Would you overall recommend the ec1-a over the Rival?


----------



## mint567

If you like the deathadder shape but do not like how it flairs up/out on the top edges of the mouse (the end where the cord is) then I would recommend the ec1-a. It is very similar shape to deathadder but more flat than the deathadder towards the top edges. One thing I do not like about the ec1-a is the scroll wheel colors... if you are set on 800 dpi you will have a pink scroll wheel. As far as the sensor they all feel a little different but you can get used to it after some time. Same with the buttons (clicks) they all feel different.


----------



## Conditioned

Yea I had my ie 3.0 plugged in the other day, and the zowie ec2-a is definately not as responsive as it. They difference is pretty big.


----------



## suneatshours86

guys, Do you think there will be surprises to the release of BenQ series? Something like: old huanos but new sensor?
Two months passed by the wrong batch with omrons: it would seem a lot of time just to get back to the old switches, don't you think?

edit: The new ones are already available :\ sorry


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *suneatshours86*
> 
> guys, Do you think there will be surprises to the release of BenQ series? Something like: old huanos but new sensor?
> Two months passed by the wrong batch with omrons: it would seem a lot of time just to get back to the old switches, don't you think?


It could be but that's pretty unlikely to happen now. At least that's not how they usually roll.


----------



## suneatshours86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> It could be but that's pretty unlikely to happen now. At least that's not how they usually roll.


right, but... just one more question:

Zowie Ec1: *64,90€*
BenQ Zowie Ec1: *69.90€*

same mouse, different price. WHY?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *suneatshours86*
> 
> right, but... just one more question:
> 
> Zowie Ec1: *64,90€*
> BenQ Zowie Ec1: *69.90€*
> 
> same mouse, different price. WHY?


No idea







Well to me zowie is dead with their za series. They made it better than FK but still way too thin for me, so i don't care. I like EC-A but coating is cancer.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> You're not yourself when you're hungry


You bes'believe it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> It could be but that's pretty unlikely to happen now. At least that's not how they usually roll.


I actually like the coating, or at least my palm does...so it says.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> You bes'believe it.
> I actually like the coating, or at least my palm does...so it says.


It sticks but it doesn't deal well with the sweat. It stays sticky and tacky, while feeling greasy. It's usable but not more. i have sweaty hands, so it's a nono. One option is to buy an ec1 evo shell and an ec1a and swap the shells. Then it'd be around 130 euros for the two. Atm I'm not convinced to do that. Besides, they will soon be impossible to get, so after the coating wears off I have to look for something new.

The problem is it's not matte enough. You have a lot of great coatings on the market that are actually nothing special. One is da chroma, wmo etc. basically roughened texturized matte plastic is the best. Any sweat gives you extra grip without ruining your hold or grip on the mouse and without feeling sticky, like glossy does.


----------



## vAro

Hey guys, observed this thread, Youtube videos and so on for a while and now waiting for the rebranded Zowies to become available.

One question left: I'm using a Deathadder for three years and I always thought it is slightly a bit to big for my hand and my preferred palmgrip. Should I therefore go for a EC1-A or EC2-A?

I was also thinking about getting them both plus a Rival 300 for a big showdown.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vAro*
> 
> Hey guys, observed this thread, Youtube videos and so on for a while and now waiting for the rebranded Zowies to become available.
> 
> One question left: I'm using a Deathadder for three years and I always thought it is slightly a bit to big for my hand and my preferred palmgrip. Should I therefore go for a EC1-A or EC2-A?
> 
> I was also thinking about getting them both plus a Rival 300 for a big showdown.


If the Deathadder is too big then EC2-A is definitely your pick. It will feel the best.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Can any of you give me a picture of how you grip the mouse with the Claw grip? I'm having difficulties on the right side,because I always hit that bump in the top with me ring finger that gives me uncomfort. Pls


----------



## Stats

so just got the ec1-a (the 24 step wheel one since u cant really get the new one where i am unless you would pay like 20+ euro for shipping internationally) and it's definitely missing scrolls, does anyone know if this also means that it will 100% make me randomly jump in game aswell if i have jump bound to scroll wheel?


----------



## RaleighStClair

@vAro the re-branded ( Benq 2016 Huano switches w/ red logo) Zowies are already available on a umber of etailers (Rexflo, Amazon, BenQ direct). Or do you mean the model you want is not available retail?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vAro*
> 
> Hey guys, observed this thread, Youtube videos and so on for a while and now waiting for the rebranded Zowies to become available.
> 
> One question left: I'm using a Deathadder for three years and I always thought it is slightly a bit to big for my hand and my preferred palmgrip. Should I therefore go for a EC1-A or EC2-A?
> 
> I was also thinking about getting them both plus a Rival 300 for a big showdown.


----------



## Stats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stats*
> 
> so just got the ec1-a (the 24 step wheel one since u cant really get the new one where i am unless you would pay like 20+ euro for shipping internationally) and it's definitely missing scrolls, does anyone know if this also means that it will 100% make me randomly jump in game aswell if i have jump bound to scroll wheel?


If anyone was wondering, yes, the mouse is skipping scrolls and scrolling randomly on its own (causing me to jump) on the first day of purchase, 24 step wheel version


----------



## bond10

Which has more of a raw sensor feeling at 400 dpi: DA2013 or EC1-A?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Which has more of a raw sensor feeling at 400 dpi: DA2013 or EC1-A?


Da 2013/Chroma


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Which has more of a raw sensor feeling at 400 dpi: DA2013 or EC1-A?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Da 2013/Chroma


Regardless of the DPI, the DA 2013/Chroma feels more responsive/precise due to it's higher framerate(s) I believe, @qsxcv knows more about this than any of us most likely. I'm glad I'm seeing more people post about this, I thought I was just crazy.

If you use it for about ~5-7 days straight without swapping back to your DA 2013/Chroma, you do start to get used to the sensor, which I'm sure many will say shouldn't be necessary, since it wasn't for me when I tried out the SteelSeries Rival which has the same exact sensor.


----------



## starmanwarz

These posts about then sensor not being responsive make me a bit sad.

A week ago I got a Rival 300. I found its shape a bit weird, but tracking was excellent.

I have just ordered a BenQ ec1-a so I guess I will find out how it compares to my Rival/DA2013/FK1.

At this point for me shape is more important which is why I was a DA user for many years. On the other hand, I could never get used to the FK1's shape and size. The Rival shape I can live with.

I'm really do hope that I will like the ec1-a. If not, I guess I'll stick to my Rival.


----------



## Snakesoul

I've been taking a peek to this thread, and i can confirm my 1st unit had a deffective sensor our some kind of issue with it. It delayed my shots/aim... IIRC i stated a few pages back...It was hard to convince the shop to replace it but they di...Theyreplaced it with a new one, but this one have a deffective shell (still waiting for my refund)... So after this experience with zowie, i don't think i'll buy another one.
Is it comfortable? yes it is, one of the most comfortable mice i have ever tested (i have the ec1-a, maybe i should have brought home ec2-a, since i think and read the negative feedback is for ec1-a), but the quality control is very poor for a 60 Euro mouse (And yes i know the quality in mice nowadays are poor, but zowie... man zowie just push it to another level of mediocrity...)
@agsz what mouse are using right now? also did you get your zowie unit replaced? i remember you also had a deffective unit...


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> I've been taking a peek to this thread, and i can confirm my 1st unit had a deffective sensor our some kind of issue with it. It delayed my shots/aim... IIRC i stated a few pages back...It was hard to convince the shop to replace it but they di...Theyreplaced it with a new one, but this one have a deffective shell (still waiting for my refund)... So after this experience with zowie, i don't think i'll buy another one.
> Is it comfortable? yes it is, one of the most comfortable mice i have ever tested (i have the ec1-a, maybe i should have brought home ec2-a, since i think and read the negative feedback is for ec1-a), but the quality control is very poor for a 60 Euro mouse (And yes i know the quality in mice nowadays are poor, but zowie... man zowie just push it to another level of mediocrity...)
> @agsz what mouse are using right now? also did you get your zowie unit replaced? i remember you also had a deffective unit...


Yes, they sent me another Zowie EC1-A Original (Black/White), and it had the same chipped trim lens defect. Did yours have that? (Images of my first Zowie EC1-A, and the post-RMA brand new sealed Zowie EC1-A) - They said I could send my post-RMA unit back and get the Zowie BenQ EC1-A w/Huano Switches, which I might do..

I just picked up my *9th* DA Chroma, and they finally let me open multiple DA Chroma's in-store to guarantee I leave with one that doesn't have a mousewheel that bounces around, and most recently, the bottom was all kinds of screwed up and would require me to sit there with sand paper to prevent the sharp edges that I could feel/hear destroying my mousepad when swiping























What mouse were you using prior to the Zowie EC1-A?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Yes, they sent me another Zowie EC1-A Original (Black/White), and it had the same chipped trim lens defect. Did yours have that? (Images of my first Zowie EC1-A, and the post-RMA brand new sealed Zowie EC1-A) - They said I could send my post-RMA unit back and get the Zowie BenQ EC1-A w/Huano Switches, which I might do..
> 
> I just picked up my *9th* DA Chroma, and they finally let me open multiple DA Chroma's in-store to guarantee I leave with one that doesn't have a mousewheel that bounces around, and most recently, the bottom was all kinds of screwed up and would require me to sit there with sand paper to prevent the sharp edges that I could feel/hear destroying my mousepad when swiping
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What mouse were you using prior to the Zowie EC1-A?


By 9th,do you mean you just buy one and return after a month,going for 9 months now







? If that's the case, your store must be somewhat dumb to not notice the trend.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> By 9th,do you mean you just buy one and return after a month,going for 9 months now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ? If that's the case, your store must be somewhat dumb to not notice the trend.


No, 9th since the week before Christmas. They've all been defective, with loose mousewheels, loose mousecords where the mouse stops working completely, random sharp crap on the bottom that I'd have to use sand paper and manually sand it for hours just so it doesn't rip apart my mousepad. They were all extremely close in Serial Numbers, but today I got one that is extremely far apart. I wish I was exaggerating, or making it up. Here's a clip of the mousewheel as an example, when I swiped you could feel it bouncing and it feels like the mouse is falling apart in my hand.


----------



## vAro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaleighStClair*
> 
> @vAro the re-branded ( Benq 2016 Huano switches w/ red logo) Zowies are already available on a umber of etailers (Rexflo, Amazon, BenQ direct). Or do you mean the model you want is not available retail?


Haven't seen them yet in Germany/Austria. Don't want to order in a swedish Gamingstore where I have to pay around 80€ for the mice. Maybe amazon.co.uk is an option here.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Yes, they sent me another Zowie EC1-A Original (Black/White), and it had the same chipped trim lens defect. Did yours have that? (Images of my first Zowie EC1-A, and the post-RMA brand new sealed Zowie EC1-A) - They said I could send my post-RMA unit back and get the Zowie BenQ EC1-A w/Huano Switches, which I might do..
> 
> I just picked up my *9th* DA Chroma, and they finally let me open multiple DA Chroma's in-store to guarantee I leave with one that doesn't have a mousewheel that bounces around, and most recently, the bottom was all kinds of screwed up and would require me to sit there with sand paper to prevent the sharp edges that I could feel/hear destroying my mousepad when swiping
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What mouse were you using prior to the Zowie EC1-A?


Thanks for replying agsz, I have to check if this one have the lens trimmed, when I get home.
I was and still using Logitech G400, using it for 3 or 4 years I guess and still going strong... The mouse wheel it's a bit loose but nothing to worry about for now...
I want a mouse to replace G400, but it's not easy to find a replacement for it...


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Thanks for replying agsz, I have to check if this one have the lens trimmed, when I get home.
> I was and still using Logitech G400, using it for 3 or 4 years I guess and still going strong... The mouse wheel it's a bit loose but nothing to worry about for now...
> I want a mouse to replace G400, but it's not easy to find a replacement for it...


g900


----------



## falcon26

Why are the EC1 and EC2 impossible to get now? Has Zowie stopped selling these?


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Why are the EC1 and EC2 impossible to get now? Has Zowie stopped selling these?


The EC1 and EC2 eVo aren't sold anymore and the only ones I could find were sold at insanely high prices, however I found an FK and AM without a problem.


----------



## NeonFlak

If you can purchase from Amazon, they say the EC1-A is going back in stock next week (as in the week of March 14th). The EC2-A though still has a next shipment date of April 6th.


----------



## agsz

Can anyone here test swiping quickly across pad, and seeing if your mouse-wheels LED light turns off for a split second or so?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Can anyone here test swiping quickly across pad, and seeing if your mouse-wheels LED light turns off for a split second or so?


No problem here. LED stays on.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> No problem here. LED stays on.


Thanks. Just noticed it and did some MouseTester plots, and the mouse literally loses power for a few seconds it seems


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Thanks. Just noticed it and did some MouseTester plots, and the mouse literally loses power for a few seconds it seems


Think ino mentions that this doesnt happen on 400/800 dpi in his review. Iirc this doesnt happen on the fk either, which might explain how some say the sensor doesnt lag as much on the fk.


----------



## Aventadoor

does anyone know if the EC2-A sensor is same size as the EC1?
Does EC2-A sensor fit in a older EC1 CL or EVO?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Can anyone here test swiping quickly across pad, and seeing if your mouse-wheels LED light turns off for a split second or so?


No problem here either mate, 4m/s swipes, 800dpi.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> No problem here either mate, 4m/s swipes, 800dpi.


Just shipped it back to Zowie, they promised me a cross-ship and 2-day shipping, since last time it took like 10 days to get the new one. Hopefully this Zowie BenQ model is good. I knew something was wrong with the EC1-A, but never noticed the LED turning off :\


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Just shipped it back to Zowie, they promised me a cross-ship and 2-day shipping, since last time it took like 10 days to get the new one. Hopefully this Zowie BenQ model is good. I knew something was wrong with the EC1-A, but never noticed the LED turning off :\


Hey agsz, you've a lot of patience... I already gave up on zowie.. I'm just trying to get my money back from the store I bought it from... Don't want to waste much more of my time with zowie. It's a shame since I liked the design /shell, but they're products or they lack of quality control just isn't for me.


----------



## Telemania

Same for me. Waist of time and money


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Hey agsz, you've a lot of patience... I already gave up on zowie.. I'm just trying to get my money back from the store I bought it from... Don't want to waste much more of my time with zowie. It's a shame since I liked the design /shell, but they're products or they lack of quality control just isn't for me.


What was wrong with yours? Lol I feel like I have little to zero patience, I cannot STAND waiting for things in the mail, last time they did FedEx ground and it took like 10 days. Luckily, after boldly asking for overnight shipping







, they offered 2-day shipping and they also shipped mine out today as soon as I provided tracking for my EC1-A that I shipped out today. So their Customer Service is pretty top notch in my opinion. The only complaint I would say is their delayed responses to e-mails, but that seems to have changed since the Zowie + BenQ merger, they now respond same day instead of days/weeks later.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> No problem here either mate, 4m/s swipes, 800dpi.


Cord must be loose where it goes inside the mouse or something, I never noticed it prior, oddly. If it wasn't for the LED mouse-wheel that some people seem to despise so much, I probably wouldn't have been able to pinpoint the issue, or even realize there was one to begin with.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Cord must be loose where it goes inside the mouse or something, I never noticed it prior, oddly. If it wasn't for the LED mouse-wheel that some people seem to despise so much, I probably wouldn't have been able to pinpoint the issue, or even realize there was one to begin with.


I've always liked lights on my mouse. If the scroll wheel didn't light up, it'll would've rendered me very sad. I loved the lightings on the G303. Zowie's color picks are what I'm not very fond of. I'm using 800 dpi and pink just doesn't fit my color scheme.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> What was wrong with yours?


1st unit had a problem with sensor and/or some kind of delay, 2nd unit have a problem with the shell, when I press M1 repeatedly the back of the shell raises, it feels like it's an assembling problem.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> 1st unit had a problem with sensor and/or some kind of delay, 2nd unit have a problem with the shell, when I press M1 repeatedly the back of the shell raises, it feels like it's an assembling problem.


Were either the Zowie BenQ model? I get mine Thursday, it's going to be my last try with them I guess.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Were either the Zowie BenQ model? I get mine Thursday, it's going to be my last try with them I guess.


Nop, it's the "original" zowie model, black with white logo. Sorry you asked me a few days ago, if my model have the lens trimmed but haven't had the time to check it.. I have it inside the box and honestly every time I look at it, I'm like... Meh...


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Nop, it's the "original" zowie model, black with white logo. Sorry you asked me a few days ago, if my model have the lens trimmed but haven't had the time to check it.. I have it inside the box and honestly every time I look at it, I'm like... Meh...


Funnily enough, my 1st EC1-A had the exact same problem as yours, it had input delay or felt like the cursor was in mud or something...every 3310 feels like this to me for some reason though, the EC1-A was just exceptionally muddy.


----------



## Snakesoul

Tell me about it.. And to try to explain to the store I bought it from, that there's a delay but it just could be seen while gaming??
Not easy... ?


----------



## notzi

Yup, one taps with EC2-A felt really off and just couldn't get used to it. ZA13 felt a lot better though.

ZA13: 

EC2-A:


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Funnily enough, my 1st EC1-A had the exact same problem as yours, it had input delay or felt like the cursor was in mud or something...every 3310 feels like this to me for some reason though, the EC1-A was just exceptionally muddy.


Yeah, I tried to get used to the 3310 a couple of times, I always give up. Hopefully Zowie starts putting a 3360 in their mice soon.


----------



## Gorgatron

Bought ec2a 07/09/2015. First one had a defective scroll wheel. It took Zowie two weeks to get me my replacement because they shipped it to the opposite side of the US. Got it back at some point and a couple of months down the road I noticed it had the scroll wheel problem again, only this time to also to have another defect where 500hz mode would not work. Got my replacement back a couple of weeks ago and it has a defective scroll wheel. I can't believe they didn't send me a benq version to address the problem and their response about it?
Quote:


> Your replacement will the be same version. The facility will only replace it with a BenQ version if they are out of stock on you version. Please return your unit to our RMA facility in the US. If you have tracking for the return package, provide that to us so that our facility can be notified of when to expect it. Your replacement will be shipped after the defective has been inspected and determined that it is a manufacture defect. If it is not a manufacture defect, then your returned unit will be shipped back to you.


I bought it via ebay (superbiiz's account) so it is obviously under warranty. I filed a dispute with paypal because now Zowie AND Superbiiz is not responding about my defective mouse. My dispute was immediately closed.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

That is crazy the issues i am reading About, i have never had an issue with Zowie, i currently have my zowie ec1-A up for sale.

In the few weeks it has been around i have had no sensor rattle, side button issue or scrollwheel problem. Zowie for me has had great QC thus far.


----------



## Snakesoul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> That is crazy the issues i am reading About, i have never had an issue with Zowie, i currently have my zowie ec1-A up for sale.
> 
> In the few weeks it has been around i have had no sensor rattle, side button issue or scrollwheel problem. Zowie for me has had great QC thus far.


Well you can consider yourself a lucky zowie owner I guess..


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Well you can consider yourself a lucky zowie owner I guess..


I believe it's not called lucky when the majority of users report no issues. EC2-A second hand owner, not a single issue.


----------



## Alya

The people who have problems tend to be the ones that are more vocal, the majority actually have no major problems with the mouse. We're just the minority, the ones that are unlucky, not vice versa.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Well you can consider yourself a lucky zowie owner I guess..


I still think this scrollwheel bug is blown way out of proportion. At least out of the 10 or so zowie mice that I've had, it's barely noticeable. At least I haven't experienced any ghost scrolling.
All those who use scrollwheel to bunnyhop or shoot weapons and rely on it in a competitive setting and then exaggerate and whine about how they scrolled 0,2 mm or 25% of the notch and the scrollwheel didn't pick it up
deserve to be slapped in the face.
Edit: I've owned 15 zowie mice units - 2 Ams, 1 ec1 evo, 2 ec1As, 1 ec2 evo, 1 evo cl, 2 ec2A, 1 FK, 1 Fk2, 2 za11s, 1 za11 benq, 1 za12, 2 FK1s. None of them had any issues besides scrollwheel rattle, creaking shell(once) and scroll issue(where minimum distance to register scrolls was 0,5 of 1 notch.

I completely understand criticism and persistence but I don't understand dumb whining and lack of info.


----------



## Snakesoul

Indeed, people always talk bad when their products (everything else in our daily life, mice included) or something wrong happens...
I have to agree with you, we're the unlucky ones... But man that's too tough luck with this brand...
1st sensor, then the mouse shell not being well assembled, feeling loose and having the feeling that it could pinch my skin...
Sorry but for me this brand gives me bad luck...


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snakesoul*
> 
> Indeed, people always talk bad when their products (everything else in our daily life, mice included) or something wrong happens...
> I have to agree with you, we're the unlucky ones... But man that's too tough luck with this brand...
> 1st sensor, then the mouse shell not being well assembled, feeling loose and having the feeling that it could pinch my skin...
> Sorry but for me this brand gives me bad luck...


Yep, sadly, I think I'm just gonna stick with my Zowie FK because I've reached a point where all 3310 mice feel terrible to me, I swear it's only the 3310 because the 3366, 3988, and 3090 feel fine to me so it can't be the framerate or the 2ms smoothing because the 3988 has 4ms. I have no clue what it is but it sucks because it really limits my choice of current mice.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Yep, sadly, I think I'm just gonna stick with my Zowie FK because I've reached a point where all 3310 mice feel terrible to me, I swear it's only the 3310 because the 3366, 3988, and 3090 feel fine to me so it can't be the framerate or the 2ms smoothing because the 3988 has 4ms. I have no clue what it is but it sucks because it really limits my choice of current mice.


Actually I did a treasure search in my deepest caves and took out my ec1/2 evo´s. They feel great and I will be playing with them instead the ec2-a even though there is higher mouse button lag and there is more variance in the refresh rate. The sensor is just that much better.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Actually I did a treasure search in my deepest caves and took out my ec1/2 evo´s. They feel great and I will be playing with them instead the ec2-a even though there is higher mouse button lag and there is more variance in the refresh rate. The sensor is just that much better.


That's exactly how I'm feeling, I would much rather play with the higher button lag because to me, shape and sensor are way more important than the added 15ms of button lag.


----------



## hotwheels1997

3310 has undoubtedly some smoothing . The 3988 and 3366 feel more responsive. Nothing unbearable.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Actually I did a treasure search in my deepest caves and took out my ec1/2 evo´s. They feel great and I will be playing with them instead the ec2-a even though there is higher mouse button lag and there is more variance in the refresh rate. The sensor is just that much better.


Arguably the 3090 should have less variance.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Arguably the 3090 should have less variance.


Not really. Both the reviews I read and my own tests (mouserecorder.exe) confirm this. It's stable enough though to easily be worthwhile.


----------



## qsxcv

ramraze is talking about this sort of variance:
https://youtu.be/X8WhETejmoY


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> 3310 has undoubtedly some smoothing . The 3988 and 3366 feel more responsive. Nothing unbearable.


Oh I see, I didn't know about that. I mean fluctuation in the refresh rate (hz). Just more proof the 3310 sucks and that 3090 is superior.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> I still think this scrollwheel bug is blown way out of proportion. At least out of the 10 or so zowie mice that I've had, it's barely noticeable. At least I haven't experienced any ghost scrolling.
> All those who use scrollwheel to bunnyhop or shoot weapons and rely on it in a competitive setting and then exaggerate and whine about how they scrolled 0,2 mm or 25% of the notch and the scrollwheel didn't pick it up
> deserve to be slapped in the face.
> Edit: I've owned 15 zowie mice units - 2 Ams, 1 ec1 evo, 2 ec1As, 1 ec2 evo, 1 evo cl, 2 ec2A, 1 FK, 1 Fk2, 2 za11s, 1 za11 benq, 1 za12, 2 FK1s. None of them had any issues besides scrollwheel rattle, creaking shell(once) and scroll issue(where minimum distance to register scrolls was 0,5 of 1 notch.
> 
> I completely understand criticism and persistence but I don't understand dumb whining and lack of info.


My ZA13 [24 notch scroll wheel] has no issues with scrolling. The only Zowie mice I ever had a real issue with was the EC series of mice. The FK, AM and ZA have been fine. At first I thought the spindle was designed wrong, but that doesn't appear to be the case after I used it in the ZA13. I guess people don't understand how the feedback system is separate from the actual scroll mechanism.

The reasons I haven't returned the ZA13 is because I want to use the scroll wheel, the switches, the cable and the side buttons, for my AM or FK. I thought maybe the smaller size and weight would be interesting to use, but the shape of the ZA series isn't better than the FK or the AM.


----------



## Leonidas22

Anyone else just aim worse with zowie mice? Anyone know why this would be the case? The mouseskates?

Kind of sucks because I really like the EC series shape.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leonidas22*
> 
> Anyone else just aim worse with zowie mice? Anyone know why this would be the case? The mouseskates?
> 
> Kind of sucks because I really like the EC series shape.


Except for the evo´s (+fk/am) all zowie´s have crappy sensors.


----------



## mint567

I love the EC1 size and shape but there is something about the sensor/buttons that I have a really hard time with compared to Deathadder/Rival. I don't have any problems with FK1/FK2 that i have.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leonidas22*
> 
> Anyone else just aim worse with zowie mice? Anyone know why this would be the case? The mouseskates?
> 
> Kind of sucks because I really like the EC series shape.


Could also be sensor position .


----------



## hotwheels1997

Came from a Deathadder,no issues.


----------



## agsz

Just opened my new Zowie BenQ EC1-A, has the same trim lens defect but not as bad.


----------



## Gorgatron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Just opened my new Zowie BenQ EC1-A, has the same trim lens defect but not as bad.


Are you talking about the cut out on the left side of the lens?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorgatron*
> 
> Are you talking about the cut out on the left side of the lens?


Yeah, it looks as if it's chipped. My FinalMouse 2016 I just got a few days ago doesn't have it, same sensor.


----------



## RaleighStClair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leonidas22*
> 
> Anyone else just aim worse with zowie mice? Anyone know why this would be the case? The mouseskates?
> 
> Kind of sucks because I really like the EC series shape.


TBH I can aim well with pretty much any mouse once I get the cpi and in-game settings right. But I do prefer a nice shape with good balance and weight.


----------



## Leonidas22

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaleighStClair*
> 
> TBH I can aim well with pretty much any mouse once I get the cpi and in-game settings right. But I do prefer a nice shape with good balance and weight.


I think the shape doesn't allow me to use my wrist for small movements/adjustments. I guess its because of the way I grip it. If I use a g303, I'm forced to grip the mouse in a way that adjusting with my wrist is very easy. This isn't the case with the EC1-A because its quite big, I'm forced to side grip it, and I only use my arm to aim.

That's what I think it is. After this esea season I'm going to switch mice. Another problem is the scroll wheel, its just awful. I bought and returned 5+ mice and they all had defective scroll wheels.


----------



## Stats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leonidas22*
> 
> I think the shape doesn't allow me to use my wrist for small movements/adjustments. I guess its because of the way I grip it. If I use a g303, I'm forced to grip the mouse in a way that adjusting with my wrist is very easy. This isn't the case with the EC1-A because its quite big, I'm forced to side grip it, and I only use my arm to aim.
> 
> That's what I think it is. After this esea season I'm going to switch mice. Another problem is the scroll wheel, its just awful. I bought and returned 5+ mice and they all had defective scroll wheels.


did you get the benq version? Supposedly the scroll wheel is fixed there


----------



## Gorgatron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Yeah, it looks as if it's chipped. My FinalMouse 2016 I just got a few days ago doesn't have it, same sensor.


I think the FM has a different lens but I've seen some EC's without chipped lens.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorgatron*
> 
> I think the FM has a different lens but I've seen some EC's without chipped lens.


Idk anymore, this is 3/3 EC1-A's I've gotten all with the same chipped trim lens. Someone I spoke to has a ZA-12 & EC2-A; his ZA-12 is fine, but EC2-A has the chipped trim lens..seems odd it would only affect EC1-A & EC2-A's.


----------



## Gorgatron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Idk anymore, this is 3/3 EC1-A's I've gotten all with the same chipped trim lens. Someone I spoke to has a ZA-12 & EC2-A; his ZA-12 is fine, but EC2-A has the chipped trim lens..seems odd it would only affect EC1-A & EC2-A's.


you are agsz on reddit. You have been talking to me LMAO I'm gentootron on reddit since gorgatron was taken.


----------



## agsz

I didn't even realize


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leonidas22*
> 
> Anyone else just aim worse with zowie mice? Anyone know why this would be the case? The mouseskates?
> 
> Kind of sucks because I really like the EC series shape.


I can 1 tap easier using the ec2, but my spray control is terrible compared to a ambidextrous mouse.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> I can 1 tap easier using the ec2, but my spray control is terrible compared to a ambidextrous mouse.


w0t? how would ergo vs ambidextrous affect recoil control?


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> w0t? how would ergo vs ambidextrous affect recoil control?


I assume since I palm the ec, and claw ambidextrous.


----------



## Conditioned

Remove please.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> I assume since I palm the ec, and claw ambidextrous.


This is the third of fourth time I see someone writing this. Possibly there are differences in the firmware/pcb that could be part of the explanation ie regular ec* vs fk/za.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> I assume since I palm the ec, and claw ambidextrous.


I've heard people saying the sensor in the EC1-A/EC2-A is much worse than in the FK/ZA mice..and it seems like the EC1/EC2-A mice have the chipped trim lens while no other Zowie model does.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leonidas22*
> 
> Anyone else just aim worse with zowie mice? Anyone know why this would be the case? The mouseskates?
> 
> Kind of sucks because I really like the EC series shape.


I felt sort of restricted I guess, due to the my crosshair feeling swamped or delayed, not sure how to explain it. I might be wrong about this, but I think the larger mouseskates => more friction, which might take some adjusting to.


----------



## b0z0

I went to the dreamachine dm1 pro. It is unbelievable compared to the Zowie, and finalmouse


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> I went to the dreamachine dm1 pro. It is unbelievable compared to the Zowie, and finalmouse


In which ways? Did the sensor not feel _swamped_ like your Zowie EC2-A?


----------



## b0z0

Sensor feels unbelievable compared to the Final and Zowie. I guess you would say it's not swamped feeling like the Zowie.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> Sensor feels unbelievable compared to the Final and Zowie. I guess you would say it's not swamped feeling like the Zowie.


How would you compare Zowie's sensor to FinalMouse's sensor? I haven't really used my FinalMouse 2016 yet, or my Zowie BenQ EC1-A either (used the original Zowie EC1-A though).


----------



## b0z0

Tbh I thought the Zowie was better. I'm not sure why I didn't like the finalmouse. It didn't feel as responsive as my Ec2-a


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> How would you compare Zowie's sensor to FinalMouse's sensor? I haven't really used my FinalMouse 2016 yet, or my Zowie BenQ EC1-A either (used the original Zowie EC1-A though).


The heck are you doing?? USE THEM ALREADY! Lol


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> The heck are you doing?? USE THEM ALREADY! Lol


I wasn't lying when I told you either I don't open and/or don't use something when I first get it for like a week or two. No clue why either


----------



## agsz

These pictures don't really show how big the bubble is, but; the Zowie replacement mouse-feet are different than the stock ones on the mouse right? I think I've heard they're a bit slicker?


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> These pictures don't really show how big the bubble is, but; the Zowie replacement mouse-feet are different than the stock ones on the mouse right? I think I've heard they're a bit slicker?


Not sure about the second pair. I always go with aftermarket skates.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> Not sure about the second pair. I always go with aftermarket skates.


Not a bad idea, the replacement set is curved like crazy. I put it in a hard cover book with two 20lb dumbells on top, hopefully that flattens them out. For future reference; what brand mouse-feet do you get? I know TigerGaming is good, and HyperGlides are too but really expensive.


----------



## Maximillion

If the mouse has hyperglides made for it, go hyperglides.


----------



## b0z0

I tend to go with hyperglides. I wish I could order a set for my DM1


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> I tend to go with hyperglides. I wish I could order a set for my DM1


If the sensei uses the same feet as the kinzu/kana then you can.


----------



## Maximillion

It doesn't, unfortunately. Sensei's are larger.


----------



## falcon26

Where can you buy the mouse from?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *falcon26*
> 
> Where can you buy the mouse from?


Which mouse?


----------



## Eutheran

EC1a has high LOD, anyone know how lower the LOD? Zowie used to have instructions on their site but ever since it got benqified I can't find them. I know it has something to do with the mouse 4 and 5.


----------



## Klopfer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eutheran*
> 
> EC1a has high LOD, anyone know how lower the LOD? Zowie used to have instructions on their site but ever since it got benqified I can't find them. I know it has something to do with the mouse 4 and 5.


there you will find it
http://www.overclock.net/t/1500615/zowie-fk1-competitive-gaming-mouse-review-by-ino


----------



## Eutheran

I thought that the programming for those mice are different than the EC series though....


----------



## Conditioned

If you want to change the lift-off distance, please one of the following methods:

If you feel the lift-off distance is too low:
Please disconnect the mouse and hold down M4 + M1 + M2 and then connect the mouse through USB

If you feel the lift-off distance is too high:
Please disconnect the mouse, hold down M4 + M1 and then connect the mouse through USB

If you want to back to standard setting !
Please disconnect the mouse, hold down M5 + M1 and then connect the mouse through USB

If you are using ZOWIE SWIFT
Please disconnect the mouse, hold down M4 + M2 and then connect the mouse through USB


----------



## Eutheran

Thank you, this is exactly what I remember it looking like!


----------



## hotwheels1997

I'm in love with the lowest setting of LOD on my EC2-A. All mice should have such low lift-off distance, it's perfect for everything,windows games etc.
*On another note*, is this how one's supposed to hold an ergo mice, such as the EC series? It is almost diagonal in my hand, 17.5cm . Ambi mice are much straighter, which comes more natural for me.
PICS:
  
Now,hold I usually hold an ambi mouse :


All input appreciated!


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I'm in love with the lowest setting of LOD on my EC2-A. All mice should have such low lift-off distance, it's perfect for everything,windows games etc.
> *On another note*, is this how one's supposed to hold an ergo mice, such as the EC series? It is almost diagonal in my hand, 17.5cm . Ambi mice are much straighter, which comes more natural for me.
> PICS:
> 
> Now,hold I usually hold an ambi mouse :
> 
> 
> All input appreciated!


Yeah, it's unnatural to have it completely straight in my opinion. My wrist is like that as well. I don't have/haven't used any ambidextrous mice, so I can't comment on that though.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Yeah, it's unnatural to have it completely straight in my opinion. My wrist is like that as well. I don't have/haven't used any ambidextrous mice, so I can't comment on that though.


I hold a DA the same way. It doesn't come natural to me ,but it's the only way I can grip it comfortably. Otherwise, If I try to hold it staight, most of my hand rests on the right side of the mouse and causes discomfort + ring finger goes too forward which adds to the inconvenience. I'm using a claw grip if I didn't specify that earlier, but I think the photos show it clearly enough. Others, is your mouse grip "crooked" too?


----------



## Maximillion

Yeah I'm the same way with most ergo mice. Exceptions being larger ones that I can actually palm and/or have enough height on the right side to claw correctly.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> Yeah I'm the same way with most ergo mice. Exceptions being larger ones that I can actually palm and/or have enough height on the right side to claw correctly.


This, exactly. There is never enough height on the right side to claw properly. That's my biggest issue with ergo mice. Did you find a workout or you just end up holding it diagonally?


----------



## Maximillion

I'd just hold most of them diagonal, any other grip would make them unusable in-game. I pretty much gave up on ergo mice after the Castor (XM300 looked tempting but I just know it wouldn't work) and the "too low on right side" issue applies to ambi mice as well, which is why I skipped the DM1.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I'd just hold most of them diagonal, any other grip would make them unusable in-game. I pretty much gave up on ergo mice after the Castor (XM300 looked tempting but I just know it wouldn't work) and the "too low on right side" issue applies to ambi mice as well, which is why I skipped the DM1.


My ring & pinky always feel like they were fighting for space on ambi mice until I tried the Fnatic flick, it actually should have plenty for you to claw with, I personally palm & haven't had an issue. Just be weary of some issues with the mouse if you decide to take that route out of curiosity. lol


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> My ring & pinky always feel like they were fighting for space on ambi mice until I tried the Fnatic flick, it actually should have plenty for you to claw with, I personally palm & haven't had an issue. Just be weary of some issues with the mouse if you decide to take that route out of curiosity. lol


Taking the G303 route since I found it dirt cheap second hand. If it doesn't fullfill my needs, I'll sell and seek for better alternatives for small hands and claw. Mice with / \ sides such as all ergo mice just give me discomfort while using to my ring/pinkie finger. It has to be \ / or else I can't properly grip.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Taking the G303 route since I found it dirt cheap second hand. If it doesn't fullfill my needs, I'll sell and seek for better alternatives for small hands and claw. Mice with / \ sides such as all ergo mice just give me discomfort while using to my ring/pinkie finger. It has to be \ / or else I can't properly grip.


G303 has a shape that makes my hand cry. If anyone is on the hunt for an EC1-A pm me.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> G303 has a shape that makes my hand cry. If anyone is on the hunt for an EC1-A pm me.


g303 has a shape that makes my mind cry. I mean there are a couple, say 5-7 shapes taht are beloved through the ages of mouseusage and g303 is about as far away from that as you can come. Who comes up with this crap.


----------



## Leonidas22

Anyone know where I can buy the EC2-A in Canada without paying a fortune in shipping? Canadacomputers = sold out. I'd like to give the ec2-a a shot before I give up on the EC series.


----------



## Robobot

NCIX tends to have them in stock fairly often.


----------



## RaleighStClair

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> g303 has a shape that makes my mind cry. I mean there are a couple, say 5-7 shapes taht are beloved through the ages of mouseusage and g303 is about as far away from that as you can come. Who comes up with this crap.


G303 has the worst shape of any mouse I have ever tried. It blows my mind that people actually use that thing. No one, not one of my friends who tried it thought it was anything but trash.

I think a boomerang has a better shape than a G303.


----------



## maibuN

My EC1-A is still incredibly sticky to the mouse pad. Even with Hyperglides for EC1-A it has way to much friction for very slow and precise movements. The Cursor sometimes jumps a few millimeters if i move it very slowly. Maybe it is because the glides are to big so I tried to use the MS3.0 Hyperglides but with them i got tracking issues with the mouse. It didnt recognize the movements sometimes with the MS3.0 glides. I think the reason for that is MS glides are 0.8 mm and EC1-A glidess are 0.7 mmm. The only possibility to get good glide is to use an hardpad (e. g. func 1030 smooth side) but hardpads suck. I don't know what to do know. I heard artisan shiden-kai would be very fast soft-pad but it is sold out and there are no artisan sellers in europe and I don't even know if the EC1-A would work properly with it. Do I really have to get another mouse just because it glides like it has glue under it? Do you have any ideas what i could do?


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> My EC1-A is still incredibly sticky to the mouse pad. Even with Hyperglides for EC1-A it has way to much friction for very slow and precise movements. The Cursor sometimes jumps a few millimeters if i move it very slowly. Maybe it is because the glides are to big so I tried to use the MS3.0 Hyperglides but with them i got tracking issues with the mouse. It didnt recognize the movements sometimes with the MS3.0 glides. I think the reason for that is MS glides are 0.8 mm and EC1-A glidess are 0.7 mmm. The only possibility to get good glide is to use an hardpad (e. g. func 1030 smooth side) but hardpads suck. I don't know what to do know. I heard artisan shiden-kai would be very fast soft-pad but it is sold out and there are no artisan sellers in europe and I don't even know if the EC1-A would work properly with it. Do I really have to get another mouse just because it glides like it has glue under it? Do you have any ideas what i could do?


This doesnt match my experience at all. I find the ec mice to glide well on qck+, goliathus control and SS np+. In fact I like it a lot that the glides are maybe the largest in the business. I like it a lot


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RaleighStClair*
> 
> G303 has the worst shape of any mouse I have ever tried. It blows my mind that people actually use that thing. No one, not one of my friends who tried it thought it was anything but trash.
> 
> I think a boomerang has a better shape than a G303.


I don't find ergo mice to be comfortable ,so to each his own. They're definitely usable and the shape isn't a bother, just not the best out there.
With the G303, there's no middle ground. That's the difference.


----------



## Kirbynator

Hey,

I have one of the very first EC1 model mice you could get hand on. The ones that shipped with Benq XL2410T monitor. As we know, the sensor in those isn't very good; too much prediction and mine has a double click bug.

But I also have FK1 with 3310 sensor which I don't use anymore. So my question is; is it possible to change the FK1 sensor into EC1 shell? If so, are there any instructions? If somebody could help me or show me the direction, that would be grand.


----------



## agsz

My hands are similar size to yours 7.5 inches / 19 cm, and the G303 is far too small. Did you already buy it? Second hand you won't be able to return most likely.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kirbynator*
> 
> Hey,
> 
> I have one of the very first EC1 model mice you could get hand on. The ones that shipped with Benq XL2410T monitor. As we know, the sensor in those isn't very good; too much prediction and mine has a double click bug.
> 
> But I also have FK1 with 3310 sensor which I don't use anymore. So my question is; is it possible to change the FK1 sensor into EC1 shell? If so, are there any instructions? If somebody could help me or show me the direction, that would be grand.


Fk, am, za all versions are interchangeable. Ec series is interchangeable only with other ec mice. They are not cross-compatible.

Fk, am za need a fitted lens if you go from 3090 to 3310.


----------



## Kirbynator

Ah, I see. I guess I will just keep my FK1 as is just incase something happens to my ZA12.

Thank you.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> My hands are similar size to yours 7.5 inches / 19 cm, and the G303 is far too small. Did you already buy it? Second hand you won't be able to return most likely.


My hands are around 17.5cm, that's far less than yours. They're decently wide ,which makes a wide-ish mouse a good addition. Second hand from Amazon has a return policy, so i'm in the safe. it costed my 30 euros shipped, no cosmetic damage , comes with original box,which is corrupted. Seems like a good way to save 45 euros,since the price of the G303 is 75 euros in Bulgaria. I appreciate your help , but I've made up my decision. Amazon paid for the expedited delivery too, because they made some sort of delay with processing.


----------



## Vikhr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> My EC1-A is still incredibly sticky to the mouse pad. Even with Hyperglides for EC1-A it has way to much friction for very slow and precise movements. The Cursor sometimes jumps a few millimeters if i move it very slowly. Maybe it is because the glides are to big so I tried to use the MS3.0 Hyperglides but with them i got tracking issues with the mouse. It didnt recognize the movements sometimes with the MS3.0 glides. I think the reason for that is MS glides are 0.8 mm and EC1-A glidess are 0.7 mmm. The only possibility to get good glide is to use an hardpad (e. g. func 1030 smooth side) but hardpads suck. I don't know what to do know. I heard artisan shiden-kai would be very fast soft-pad but it is sold out and there are no artisan sellers in europe and I don't even know if the EC1-A would work properly with it. Do I really have to get another mouse just because it glides like it has glue under it? Do you have any ideas what i could do?


I have this issue with smoother pads like the G-SR and Glorious XL Heavy, something like a Goliathus Control or TF-X work better with the larger Zowie feet.


----------



## mint567

You could try a Roccat pad. I have a Roccat sense that I got with my Camo charge and it is kind of a mix between a hard pad and a soft pad. Its very thin (2mm) and lays flat after a few hours/a day. My mouse glides across it. The Roccat Taito is supposed to be a very slick/fast pad too. I haven't tried it but I have a friend that loves it.


----------



## brocoolio

I also have the "mouse button touching the bottom" problem. I normally press my mouse buttons pretty hard so this issue bothers me a lot since. I don't know what to do to fix it so I just ordered a Zowie EC2 Evo to see if the older models have this issue.

I also find that my EC2 has a lot more friction than my AM or FK. To solve this, I just use a slicker mousepad with my EC2 like the Zowie G-TFX. It feels quite fast with my AM and FK (almost plastic pad levels) but pretty normal with my EC2. When using the G-TFX with the EC2, it feels like a fast cloth pad. Hope this helps!


----------



## ronaldoz

Wow, how much color editions are out there? I've seen 3 EC2-A's so far. But I don't know where to get them in EU.
Oh, and 4th: a black with a transparant logo, and one with red logo.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brocoolio*
> 
> I also have the "mouse button touching the bottom" problem. I normally press my mouse buttons pretty hard so this issue bothers me a lot since. I don't know what to do to fix it so I just ordered a Zowie EC2 Evo to see if the older models have this issue.
> 
> I also find that my EC2 has a lot more friction than my AM or FK. To solve this, I just use a slicker mousepad with my EC2 like the Zowie G-TFX. It feels quite fast with my AM and FK (almost plastic pad levels) but pretty normal with my EC2. When using the G-TFX with the EC2, it feels like a fast cloth pad. Hope this helps!


Where did you buy a evo? They seem to be out of stock everywhere.


----------



## tunelover

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Where did you buy a evo? They seem to be out of stock everywhere.


Rexflo.net sells them


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tunelover*
> 
> Rexflo.net sells them


I just see the BenQ and white scroll ECx-A series, no eVos.


----------



## brocoolio

To everyone asking me about the Evo: I bought one at ggwp.pro

It's a shop in Europe. I ordered it about 5 days ago so it didn't exactly come in yet. After shipping and tax it came out to be approx 75$.

I bought a Zowie AM from them about 2 years ago and it was in perfect condition so I'm certain they're a reputable/ reliable seller.

Sorry for any grammatical mistakes. On phone rn.


----------



## Alya

I would've bought one just to own it, but after looking at the prices they're asking for the older versions of the Zowies when I got my FK for $30, I think I'll hold. I was also looking for a Kinzu after reading some pretty funny stuff on here about it, too bad I can't find the cursor on rails edition.


----------



## Conditioned

Hm, I tried ordering a ec2 evo through ggwpro earlier without success and didn't get a reply to my emails. Works now, guess they don't like vpn's.


----------



## mitavreb

I'm beginning to believe that my EC1-A has some input lag. I feel a slight delay/stuttering at 1000hz with my recoil in CSGO. It's worse using 500hz.


----------



## t1337dude

So I finished my secondary HTPC gaming rig and I'm looking at another mouse. I love my Zowie EC2-A, but all I see are rebranded versions of the mice for sale now. I'm not sure if I should just buy that or consider another mouse.

I've never experienced any issues with my EC2-A, but based on what I hear here, seems people commonly experience issues. Should I go for something else this time? I like the weight/size, and I'd give the shape a solid B+/A- (and is my favorite so far). I'd take recommendations for something similar...or should I just grab the rebrand?


----------



## maibuN

Is anyone still using MS 3.0 hyperglides with the EC1-A? As I said before they glide much better but my mouse didn't track sometimes because they were to thick and didn't match the LOD. Today I got an artisan hayate otsu and I feel the LOD is a tiny bit higher so maybe I should try it again. Is it working for anyone with the MS 3.0 glides? The glide is so much faster.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> Is anyone still using MS 3.0 hyperglides with the EC1-A? As I said before they glide much better but my mouse didn't track sometimes because they were to thick and didn't match the LOD. Today I got an artisan hayate otsu and I feel the LOD is a tiny bit higher so maybe I should try it again. Is it working for anyone with the MS 3.0 glides? The glide is so much faster.


You know you can change the liftoffdistance right?

400/800/1600/3200 dpi

If you want to change the lift-off distance, please one of the following methods:

If you feel the lift-off distance is too low:
Please disconnect the mouse and hold down M4 + M1 + M2 and then connect the mouse through USB

If you feel the lift-off distance is too high:
Please disconnect the mouse, hold down M4 + M1 and then connect the mouse through USB

If you want to back to standard setting !
Please disconnect the mouse, hold down M5 + M1 and then connect the mouse through USB

If you are using ZOWIE SWIFT
Please disconnect the mouse, hold down M4 + M2 and then connect the mouse through USB

Hold front-left side button:- 1000 Hz
Hold back-left side button:- 500 Hz
Hold back-left & front-left side button:- 125 Hz


----------



## maibuN

Thank you very much for your help. I did it exactly like that (M4 + M1 + M2) to get the highest LOD but still it sometimes didn't track properly with the 0.8 mm thick MS 3.0 glides. Mousepad was SS Dex / Roccat Hiro. Now I got Artisan Hayate and the LOD feels higher than with roccat hira so that I would like to try the MS 3.0 glides again. But it would be nice to know if MS 3.0 glides work for anyone with cloth pads or other pads because I don't want to waste time and two sets of hyperglides again.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> You know you can change the liftoffdistance right?
> 
> 400/800/1600/3200 dpi
> 
> If you want to change the lift-off distance, please one of the following methods:
> 
> If you feel the lift-off distance is too low:
> Please disconnect the mouse and hold down M4 + M1 + M2 and then connect the mouse through USB
> 
> If you feel the lift-off distance is too high:
> Please disconnect the mouse, hold down M4 + M1 and then connect the mouse through USB
> 
> If you want to back to standard setting !
> Please disconnect the mouse, hold down M5 + M1 and then connect the mouse through USB
> 
> If you are using ZOWIE SWIFT
> Please disconnect the mouse, hold down M4 + M2 and then connect the mouse through USB
> 
> Hold front-left side button:- 1000 Hz
> Hold back-left side button:- 500 Hz
> Hold back-left & front-left side button:- 125 Hz


Mouse 4 = !000Hz
Mouse 5= 500Hz

The early manuals had Mouse 4 & 5 mixed up.


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

You put your left foot in, you put your left foot out, put your left foot in and thats what its all about..


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Mouse 4 = !000Hz
> Mouse 5= 500Hz
> 
> The early manuals had Mouse 4 & 5 mixed up.


I know. I just put it in a text file since zowie/benq took it down from their site, at least I could'nt find it. I always put 1k and check hz regularly, like once every couple of weeks, since I discovered my ec2 evo does a little dance between 500 and 1k whenever it's set to 500. So you guys just got my text files I don't guarantee it's accurate .)


----------



## koxy

Quick question to ec2-a owners is this mouse ok for claw grip and 18,5cm hand ? Right now im using ZA12 which is great for palm grip for claw grip not really...


----------



## suneatshours86

your hand is too small for a good claw on ec2-a. You should consider zowie fk2


----------



## koxy

Well they looks almost identical za12 have higher back hoop (3 mm) i have problem with my ring and small finger placment on za12, front of the mouse is to wide for me for claw i have to grip it like 1-3-1 i prefer 1-2-2


----------



## Eutheran

Anyone with the new Zowie BenQ EC have problems with the scroll wheel jumping yet or is it confirmed 100% fixed?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eutheran*
> 
> Anyone with the new Zowie BenQ EC have problems with the scroll wheel jumping yet or is it confirmed 100% fixed?


Haven't had the issue thus far.


----------



## Eutheran

Just ordered mine then.







that was my only complaint about the mouse, probably onceor twice per pug I would hop. Now I just hate the red z.


----------



## auraofjason

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eutheran*
> 
> Anyone with the new Zowie BenQ EC have problems with the scroll wheel jumping yet or is it confirmed 100% fixed?


Zero problems for me.


----------



## Gorgatron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eutheran*
> 
> Anyone with the new Zowie BenQ EC have problems with the scroll wheel jumping yet or is it confirmed 100% fixed?


Can't confirm but I was told since the pre benq version is 24 steps on the scroll wheel which makes it more sensitive? 16 step apparently addresses that problem since it is not as sensitive.


----------



## Chungii

Still same click latency Zowie ec2-a (Benq red) vs Zowie ec2-a (old white logo) ?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chungii*
> 
> Still same click latency Zowie ec2-a (Benq red) vs Zowie ec2-a (old white logo) ?


Yes.


----------



## coccosoids

Does anyone know or can link to any body mods done on the EC 2 A? Like making it smaller or moving the scroll wheel?


----------



## solz

18 cm hands
Palm grip

EC 1 or 2 A?


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solz*
> 
> 18 cm hands
> Palm grip
> 
> EC 1 or 2 A?


2


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> 2


My hands are 18-18.5 cm and EC2-A felt small, EC1-A is perfect imo.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> My hands are 18-18.5 cm and EC2-A felt small, EC1-A is perfect imo.


I would use the EC1 over the EC2 if it was thinner.


----------



## solz

I'm comming from the Steelseries Rival and the size suits me pretty well so EC-1A?


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> My hands are 18-18.5 cm and EC2-A felt small, EC1-A is perfect imo.


My hands are just short of 20 and I think ec2 is perfect.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> My hands are just short of 20 and I think ec2 is perfect.


Mine are just over 21cm, I have still been wanting to try out the EC2-A just because. I have heard of some bigger handed individuals liking the smaller 2-A over the 1-A. They just became available on Rexflo again so maybe I will try eventually.


----------



## b0z0

My hands are 19cm and I keep coming back to the Ec2 series.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> My hands are 19cm and I keep coming back to the Ec2 series.


I am sure your fingers hang over a bit right? it's not too thin to you?


----------



## b0z0

Just a little. I tend to hybrid palm / claw with the Ec2-a


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Gotcha, yea I full on palm, it will probably be a bit too small for me. Or I could like it.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Gotcha, yea I full on palm, it will probably be a bit too small for me. Or I could like it.


I full palm.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solz*
> 
> I'm comming from the Steelseries Rival and the size suits me pretty well so EC-1A?


I say EC1-A, but it's purely preference I suppose. I never really used the EC2-A besides trying a friends for a few minutes and it felt small to me at least. I think I have some EC1-A & Rival pics side by side if you want.


----------



## agsz

What mouse is this? TACO next to him has a ZA-12 I think, and the palm height on the silver mouse is much higher, thought it was an EC1-A at first but it's ambi. http://www.hltv.org/gallery/view/61340 - Click High Res, it was over 10MB so I couldn't embed.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> What mouse is this? TACO next to him has a ZA-12 I think, and the palm height on the silver mouse is much higher, thought it was an EC1-A at first but it's ambi. http://www.hltv.org/gallery/view/61340 - Click High Res, it was over 10MB so I couldn't embed.


It's a za11 with silver paint job.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> It's a za11 with silver paint job.


Ty

edit: This is the second one I've seen like this, someone on Virtus Pro has a Silver FK1 I think, not sure if Zowie makes them custom or what.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Ty
> 
> edit: This is the second one I've seen like this, someone on Virtus Pro has a Silver FK1 I think, not sure if Zowie makes them custom or what.


I believe TACO ,the guy next to him, has a Zowie FK2. Source


----------



## Robobot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> I believe TACO ,the guy next to him, has a Zowie FK2. Source


coldzera and fnx have ZA12's, taco has an FK2, fer has a Rival, and Fallen uses an EC-1a (last I heard, at any rate).


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> It's a za11 with silver paint job.


Are you really sure it's a ZA11? A few weeks ago he was using a ZA12, but it was a black one

Btw, Zowie doesn't sell their stuff in Brazil, even though they're sponsoring a BR team (but the org is NA) that has many passionate fans. I'm pretty sure they would sell A LOT of mice down here just because of the LG fanboys.
That is quite funny imo


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> Are you really sure it's a ZA11? A few weeks ago he was using a ZA12, but it was a black one
> 
> Btw, Zowie doesn't sell their stuff in Brazil, even though they're sponsoring a BR team (but the org is NA) that has many passionate fans. I'm pretty sure they would sell A LOT of mice down here just because of the LG fanboys.
> That is quite funny imo


That's what I thought too, then I saw on stream him using a Silver Zowie mouse, and someone on Virtus Pro has one too, only two I've ever seen though.

The palm height looked far too high for the FK Series, and I didn't think if was the ZA Series either at first.

Edit: Pasza has the other Silver Zowie Mouse. Source ~ I'll try to see if I can find some better pics, found that off Google + HLTV.org thread.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> Btw, Zowie doesn't sell their stuff in Brazil, even though they're sponsoring a BR team (but the org is NA) that has many passionate fans. I'm pretty sure they would sell A LOT of mice down here just because of the LG fanboys.
> That is quite funny imo


Well, the org is from NA and the roster lives in NA.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> That's what I thought too, then I saw on stream him using a Silver Zowie mouse, and someone on Virtus Pro has one too, only two I've ever seen though.
> 
> The palm height looked far too high for the FK Series, and I didn't think if was the ZA Series either at first.
> 
> Edit: Pasza has the other Silver Zowie Mouse. Source ~ I'll try to see if I can find some better pics, found that off Google + HLTV.org thread.


I have seen like 6 silver/grey Zowies.


----------



## agsz

Cold has switched mice like 3 times since January it seems. Not sure what he was using here, can't find a better pic.

Here's Pasza's mouse I think, not sure since I don't think he uses a Blue Zowie G-SR.


----------



## aLv1080

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Well, the org is from NA and the roster lives in NA.


But they're brazilians and play as SA, even though they live in NA.
Also, most of their fans are from Brazil. It's just weird that they refuse to sell their stuff down here...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Cold has switched mice like 3 times since January it seems. Not sure what he was using here, can't find a better pic.


It's a normal Sensei


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> But they're brazilians and play as SA, even though they live in NA.
> Also, most of their fans are from Brazil. It's just weird that they refuse to sell their stuff down here...
> It's a normal Sensei


That's what I thought, wasn't sure. I think I posted Snax's mouse as Pasza's, can't find a decent pic so far. I wish HLTV.org used their photo tagging feature more often


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Cold has switched mice like 3 times since January it seems. Not sure what he was using here, can't find a better pic.
> 
> Here's Pasza's mouse I think, not sure since I don't think he uses a Blue Zowie G-SR.


Pros that aren't forced to use a specific brand switch their mice a lot more than people realize.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Pros that aren't forced to use a specific brand switch their mice a lot more than people realize.


Such as who? Most don't switch often at all.


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Such as who? Most don't switch often at all.


Watched enough LAN events and followed the spreadsheet every now and then out of curiosity, barely any pros switch a lot. Most people stick to their Rivals, DeathAdders and EC-As/FKs/ZAs. There's been exceptions like Fnatic and Astralis, but that's just because they aren't bound to their sponsors for that anymore (SS/Logitech)...

If they switch, it's mostly in the same form factor so that they can maintain consistency (e.g. s1mple's Sensei Raw -> Zowie ZA, Pasha's Kinzu V2 -> Zowie FK), or it's due to sponsors which screws you up for a small period of time (s1mple's Zowie ZA -> Razer DeathAdder)...

There are barely pros who have switched more than 2 times to completely different mice in the last 1-2 years, except maybe GTR who went from a Xai to a Rival to an EC to a G402 to a G303 and then to an EC1-A (don't take the order for granted).


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Such as who? Most don't switch often at all.


Get Right switched his mouse 4 or more times after their SteelSeries contract was up. Coldzera switched back and forth a few times. Neo switches between the EC and the FK. Pasha switched a few times after moving away from the Kinzu. Taz switched like 3-4 times. Byali switched 2-3 times. Device switched a few times after leaving TSM/Logitech and the rest of Astralis experimented with different mice. Freakazoid, Skadoodle, Semphis and Sean switched between the G402, G303 and G100s when under contract. Semphis, Shahzam and Sean switched mice after they left C9. Hiko switched mice like every week. It goes on and on.


----------



## ncck

I bet if they didn't play csgo pro they would never change mice, that's what a game so built around randomness makes people do. They perform badly, doubt themselves, then blame peripherals

I never even thought about changing mice once I had a comfortable one until csgo came out. Only thing I'd swap once a year was a mouse pad

It's funny to think about, but other games people change mice only when they break etc


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aLv1080*
> 
> Are you really sure it's a ZA11? A few weeks ago he was using a ZA12, but it was a black one


It might be a ZA12, the difference is impossible to tell without something to compare due to perspective. I understood that someone else's mouse was the ZA12 and that his was bigger so I said ZA11. It definitely is one of the ZAs.


----------



## Conditioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I bet if they didn't play csgo pro they would never change mice, that's what a game so built around randomness makes people do. They perform badly, doubt themselves, then blame peripherals
> 
> I never even thought about changing mice once I had a comfortable one until csgo came out. Only thing I'd swap once a year was a mouse pad
> 
> It's funny to think about, but other games people change mice only when they break etc


Could be that most mice have an unacceptable amount of flaw. Maybe he´s just looking for one with the least amount.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conditioned*
> 
> Could be that most mice have an unacceptable amount of flaw. Maybe he´s just looking for one with the least amount.


It's true what you say, but I know that people were not changing mice as often until they started playing that game. Maybe because there's just so many options now or because of what I said. Just a few years ago everyone had similar mice or basic optical and used them for multiple years.. Nobody asked anything and pretty much everyone ran a qck


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> It's true what you say, but I know that people were not changing mice as often until they started playing that game. Maybe because there's just so many options now or because of what I said. Just a few years ago everyone had similar mice or basic optical and used them for multiple years.. Nobody asked anything and pretty much everyone ran a qck


Yup, but old DA, abyssus, ms mice etc and even the first gen zowies had much less issues. Today we have crappy implementations because of marketing, mainstream people who buy things that have lights and 16 k cpi, + worse sensor behavior to keep up with the cpi wars. First one to actually innovate again was Logi.


----------



## Leonidas22

Can someone tell me how to change the LOD for my ec1-a? The FAQ page is gone from the zowie site.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leonidas22*
> 
> Can someone tell me how to change the LOD for my ec1-a? The FAQ page is gone from the zowie site.


It's a couple pages back, someone asked the same.


----------



## ncck

the fk1 and fk2 are re-available in EU now at shop.benq.eu


----------



## bond10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I bet if they didn't play csgo pro they would never change mice, that's what a game so built around randomness makes people do. They perform badly, doubt themselves, then blame peripherals
> 
> I never even thought about changing mice once I had a comfortable one until csgo came out. Only thing I'd swap once a year was a mouse pad
> 
> It's funny to think about, but other games people change mice only when they break etc


This is SO true. In CS 1.6 and Quake 3, I had 1 mouse and 1 sensitivity and 1 resolution for over 8 years. I NEVER had to change any of it. With CS:GO, it's like I'm playing left handed for the first time whenever I play. It just doesn't feel natural no matter what. I don't think I've ever changed my mouse/sensitivity/resolution so much before CS:GO. Something's just off about this game man.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> This is SO true. In CS 1.6 and Quake 3, I had 1 mouse and 1 sensitivity and 1 resolution for over 8 years. I NEVER had to change any of it. With CS:GO, it's like I'm playing left handed for the first time whenever I play. It just doesn't feel natural no matter what. I don't think I've ever changed my mouse/sensitivity/resolution so much before CS:GO. Something's just off about this game man.


It's several factors, mainly the game felt so 'crappy' from launch because it was intended to be an xbox 360 and ps3 game only, the original game was Counter-strike: Source for xbox 360/ps3. They went backwards and also included it on PC. After the game released the old development team known as Hidden Path had their contract expire and that's when valve took over

From the very get-go csgo felt.. weird

For example

Raw input feels better on Counter-strike: Source than it does on CSGO and always has..
CSGO bullets are not 'true' to where your crosshair is unless you make the thickness of the crosshair a half 1.5 etc, which will shift the crosshair to the right and that's where the bullets actually "come out of". Also it has the terrible new lag compensation (not new, it's always been in games) but they have a high amount of extrapolation and interpolation (I'm no CS/networking expert so I can't explain that further) but basically they tried to eliminate what classic gamers know as "ping advantage" where the lower your ping was the more advantage you had in the game you were playing. So this results in a worse overall online experience, dying around corners, shots missing, game feeling 'delayed' -- even if your ping was 20 or 30 you feel like there's artificial lag forced onto your client which is exactly what's happening.

For those who are new to gaming and don't really know what i'm talking about you can make some easy comparisons

Compare: Halo 2 to Halo 3
Call of duty modern warfare 1 to modern warfare 3 (You can also compare modern warfare 2 to modern warfare 3)
Counter-strike 1.6 to Counter-strike:GO (I'd say source but source only had this issue introduced after they swapped it to the tf2 engine)
Natural selection 1 vs Natural selection 2
Serious sam: The second encounter vs Serious sam: The secound encounter HD

The only game which came out in the last 5 years that I know of which actually had a developer address this issue is an arena FPS called Reflex. The developer wrote a little paragraph on how he tried to balance 'extrapolation/interpolation' the best he could to avoid dying around corners while also making it so people could play up to a certain ping without having to 'aim ahead' of player models. I believe he set it to 60~ ping? Where if your ping goes above 60 you will need to lead shots on the enemy models which is something that is static and can be learned which many hardcore gamers preferred - especially when you saw those hardcore quake players from south america/asia who were playing with 90-160 ping and all they did was learn how to play with those pings, meanwhile now in a game like CSGO if your ping is 120 everything feels like utter **** and that's because the game is trying so hard to rewind **** and make it so you still have to shoot at the player models instead of aiming ahead etc

Then add in that movement in CSGO doesn't feel very good, you can't make micro movements like you could in 1.6.. for example when you want to line yourself up with something you can't walk and do that anymore since of the weird acceleration when moving.. basically it's always felt like CS on ice skates. Anyway there's a lot of flaws but I don't really care to list them all, if you want to be good at CSGO it's about learning those flaws and how to counter them (like aiming further away from a corner so that when someone runs out they will run INTO your crosshair, because if you leave it at the edge you won't see their player model until they're further out at which point they'll already be firing at you because the person on the move has the advantage in seeing you a few milliseconds first.. this didn't exist back in say 2009 CS source on a 100 tic server - you could have your crosshair directly at the edge of something and headshot them as soon as they were visible - and then you could flick your crosshair to the other side of a box and headshot another guy. In csgo by the time you're done killing the first guy if you aren't holding down your spray and then flicking to where you think the next guy is you'll be dead before you can react/fire back because of the lag compensation.

Anyway .. so what I was saying
Learn the games flaws
Learn good crosshair placement
Work on muscle memory
Play with team mates who don't suck - games are won overall by good team play, even amazing aimers can lose to people who execute properly, hold angles, and use nades
Don't change your settings and you will improve..
Truth is there isn't many places to play this game competitively besides ESEA league and scrims - pugging will only help you a little bit because the teams are almost never even and the skill variations/communication is inconsistent. So if you're just pugging you will hit a skill ceiling and be stuck there forever - because there's no way to improve your individual play past a certain point since the game handicaps the individual so much. This isn't say natural selection where one amazing fade or marine with a shotgun can be so good that he can outplay 4 players at once


----------



## woll3

FFS stop whining and use a racing wheel.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> It's several factors, mainly the game felt so 'crappy' from launch because it was intended to be an xbox 360 and ps3 game only, the original game was Counter-strike: Source for xbox 360/ps3. They went backwards and also included it on PC. After the game released the old development team known as Hidden Path had their contract expire and that's when valve took over
> 
> From the very get-go csgo felt.. weird
> 
> For example
> 
> Raw input feels better on Counter-strike: Source than it does on CSGO and always has..
> CSGO bullets are not 'true' to where your crosshair is unless you make the thickness of the crosshair a half 1.5 etc, which will shift the crosshair to the right and that's where the bullets actually "come out of". Also it has the terrible new lag compensation (not new, it's always been in games) but they have a high amount of extrapolation and interpolation (I'm no CS/networking expert so I can't explain that further) but basically they tried to eliminate what classic gamers know as "ping advantage" where the lower your ping was the more advantage you had in the game you were playing. So this results in a worse overall online experience, dying around corners, shots missing, game feeling 'delayed' -- even if your ping was 20 or 30 you feel like there's artificial lag forced onto your client which is exactly what's happening.
> 
> For those who are new to gaming and don't really know what i'm talking about you can make some easy comparisons
> 
> Compare: Halo 2 to Halo 3
> Call of duty modern warfare 1 to modern warfare 3 (You can also compare modern warfare 2 to modern warfare 3)
> Counter-strike 1.6 to Counter-strike:GO (I'd say source but source only had this issue introduced after they swapped it to the tf2 engine)
> Natural selection 1 vs Natural selection 2
> Serious sam: The second encounter vs Serious sam: The secound encounter HD
> 
> The only game which came out in the last 5 years that I know of which actually had a developer address this issue is an arena FPS called Reflex. The developer wrote a little paragraph on how he tried to balance 'extrapolation/interpolation' the best he could to avoid dying around corners while also making it so people could play up to a certain ping without having to 'aim ahead' of player models. I believe he set it to 60~ ping? Where if your ping goes above 60 you will need to lead shots on the enemy models which is something that is static and can be learned which many hardcore gamers preferred - especially when you saw those hardcore quake players from south america/asia who were playing with 90-160 ping and all they did was learn how to play with those pings, meanwhile now in a game like CSGO if your ping is 120 everything feels like utter **** and that's because the game is trying so hard to rewind **** and make it so you still have to shoot at the player models instead of aiming ahead etc
> 
> Then add in that movement in CSGO doesn't feel very good, you can't make micro movements like you could in 1.6.. for example when you want to line yourself up with something you can't walk and do that anymore since of the weird acceleration when moving.. basically it's always felt like CS on ice skates. Anyway there's a lot of flaws but I don't really care to list them all, if you want to be good at CSGO it's about learning those flaws and how to counter them (like aiming further away from a corner so that when someone runs out they will run INTO your crosshair, because if you leave it at the edge you won't see their player model until they're further out at which point they'll already be firing at you because the person on the move has the advantage in seeing you a few milliseconds first.. this didn't exist back in say 2009 CS source on a 100 tic server - you could have your crosshair directly at the edge of something and headshot them as soon as they were visible - and then you could flick your crosshair to the other side of a box and headshot another guy. In csgo by the time you're done killing the first guy if you aren't holding down your spray and then flicking to where you think the next guy is you'll be dead before you can react/fire back because of the lag compensation.
> 
> Anyway .. so what I was saying
> Learn the games flaws
> Learn good crosshair placement
> Work on muscle memory
> Play with team mates who don't suck - games are won overall by good team play, even amazing aimers can lose to people who execute properly, hold angles, and use nades
> Don't change your settings and you will improve..
> Truth is there isn't many places to play this game competitively besides ESEA league and scrims - pugging will only help you a little bit because the teams are almost never even and the skill variations/communication is inconsistent. So if you're just pugging you will hit a skill ceiling and be stuck there forever - because there's no way to improve your individual play past a certain point since the game handicaps the individual so much. This isn't say natural selection where one amazing fade or marine with a shotgun can be so good that he can outplay 4 players at once


I have been planning to snatch cs:go in the next week or so & reading all that made me not want to. lol


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> FFS stop whining and use a racing wheel.


I'd love a racing wheel, then I'd snatch dirt rally and project cars









I'm not complaining just sharing some information anyway that's all this is a thread for zowie mice so I'm going to leave it at that


----------



## scardd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> I have been planning to snatch cs:go in the next week or so & reading all that made me not want to. lol


dont worry ;D


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Get Right switched his mouse 4 or more times after their SteelSeries contract was up. Coldzera switched back and forth a few times. Neo switches between the EC and the FK. Pasha switched a few times after moving away from the Kinzu. Taz switched like 3-4 times. Byali switched 2-3 times. Device switched a few times after leaving TSM/Logitech and the rest of Astralis experimented with different mice. Freakazoid, Skadoodle, Semphis and Sean switched between the G402, G303 and G100s when under contract. Semphis, Shahzam and Sean switched mice after they left C9. Hiko switched mice like every week. It goes on and on.


The beauty of it from a non-pro like myself is I don't get paid to play games and I have maybe 3 different gaming mice to choose from based on my mood and not on whether or not my contract is up







Sometimes too much variety is a bad thing. Of all the gaming mice I've had, the longest and most successful run I've had is with a DeathAdder (and I don't even like Razer products!). At the end of the day, it's whether or not I had a good time playing for an hour or so or not. Yoda forbid if I were to have a bad day during one session of BF4. It took me a while to stop blaming my gaming accessories or start the petty hackusation crap that goes on via in-game chat. The bottom line is if I'm doing well or poorly, 99 times out of 100, that's on me (not on Logitech, not on Zowie, not on Razer, etc. etc.). The thing about certain gaming mice is I think twice before I decide to rage and throw my $60 mouse across the room


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> The beauty of it from a non-pro like myself is I don't get paid to play games and I have maybe 3 different gaming mice to choose from based on my mood and not on whether or not my contract is up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes too much variety is a bad thing. Of all the gaming mice I've had, the longest and most successful run I've had is with a DeathAdder (and I don't even like Razer products!). At the end of the day, it's whether or not I had a good time playing for an hour or so or not. Yoda forbid if I were to have a bad day during one session of BF4. It took me a while to stop blaming my gaming accessories or start the petty hackusation crap that goes on via in-game chat. The bottom line is if I'm doing well or poorly, 99 times out of 100, that's on me (not on Logitech, not on Zowie, not on Razer, etc. etc.). The thing about certain gaming mice is I think twice before I decide to rage and throw my $60 mouse across the room


I don't have moments where I perform bad. I either wreck the server or almost wreck the server. Usually leave because of lag or because of no challenge...


----------



## smurfeNn

Is there any difference between the white logo EC-series and the red logo besides the BenQ logo?

All of the BenQ mice have been taken out of the stores here in Sweden, the next delivery of BenQ by Zowie will reach stores by 20th of April.

There is one store though, which still has white logo EC-series mice. Should I buy the old white logo or wait for the newer BenQ mice with the red logo?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smurfeNn*
> 
> Is there any difference between the white logo EC-series and the red logo besides the BenQ logo?
> 
> All of the BenQ mice have been taken out of the stores here in Sweden, the next delivery of BenQ by Zowie will reach stores by 20th of April.
> 
> There is one store though, which still has white logo EC-series mice. Should I buy the old white logo or wait for the newer BenQ mice with the red logo?


Zowie BenQ = 16 step scroll wheel

Zowie w/white logo = 24-step scroll wheel


----------



## smurfeNn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Zowie BenQ = 16 step scroll wheel
> 
> Zowie w/white logo = 24-step scroll wheel


So what's better?
Should I buy the old white logo or wait for the newer BenQ mouse?


----------



## crovean

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smurfeNn*
> 
> So what's better?
> Should I buy the old white logo or wait for the newer BenQ mouse?


http://shop.benq.eu/store/benqeu/en_GB/list/ThemeID.19795600/parentCategoryID.70871300/categoryID.70871400

i'm assuming they ship to sweden as well.


----------



## smurfeNn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Zowie BenQ = 16 step scroll wheel
> 
> Zowie w/white logo = 24-step scroll wheel


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crovean*
> 
> http://shop.benq.eu/store/benqeu/en_GB/list/ThemeID.19795600/parentCategoryID.70871300/categoryID.70871400
> 
> i'm assuming they ship to sweden as well.


So your answer is the BenQ is better than the old one? Then I'll buy that one.

Gonna have to wait until they get it here in Sweden though... Not gonna buy it from their website for €76 plus import taxes


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smurfeNn*
> 
> So your answer is the BenQ is better than the old one? Then I'll buy that one.
> 
> Gonna have to wait until they get it here in Sweden though... Not gonna buy it from their website for €76 plus import taxes


I'm not a defender of any brand by any means, but the scroll wheel for the ZA or EC series red vs. white logo is rather 'meh'. Overall, I think Zowie makes solid mice. The button lag tests are subjective because your own personal reaction time is a factor and not everyone is the fastest rabbit on the block when it comes to reflexes









Overall, Zowie makes solid gaming mice (in my opinion and experience).


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smurfeNn*
> 
> So your answer is the BenQ is better than the old one? Then I'll buy that one.
> 
> Gonna have to wait until they get it here in Sweden though... Not gonna buy it from their website for €76 plus import taxes


I think it's a bit more sensitive, I'll have to double check. I wouldn't say it's worth spending extra money to get the Zowie BenQ (red logo) versus the Zowie (black/white logo), others might though. Mainly due to a good amount of people complaining about the old scroll-wheel.


----------



## maibuN

After getting used to the EC1-A for the last 6--8 weeks today I tried my old IME 3.0 again. Even with a bit different sensitivity and beeing used to the EC1-A for weeks I played so much butter instantly. My K/D in Deathmatch in the first 10 minutes of trying the IME 3.0 doubled from 2 with EC1-A to 4-5 with IME 3.0. I got those one clicks instantly and I always struggeled to do that with EC1-A. Also the IME 3.0 feels so completely different when moving the cursor. It feels like the EC1-A is not submitting what my hand is doing to the PC and submitting some random stuff instead







Maybe there is something wrong with my unit? How can progamers play with this mouse? When I started playing with EC1-A I lost more than 10 games in a row and managed to rank down an lot but I thought I had just to get used to it. After 2 months the IME 3.0 is still playing in another league.


----------



## shatterboxd3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> After getting used to the EC1-A for the last 6--8 weeks today I tried my old IME 3.0 again. Even with a bit different sensitivity and beeing used to the EC1-A for weeks I played so much butter instantly. My K/D in Deathmatch in the first 10 minutes of trying the IME 3.0 doubled from 2 with EC1-A to 4-5 with IME 3.0. I got those one clicks instantly and I always struggeled to do that with EC1-A. Also the IME 3.0 feels so completely different when moving the cursor. It feels like the EC1-A is not submitting what my hand is doing to the PC and submitting some random stuff instead
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe there is something wrong with my unit? How can progamers play with this mouse? When I started playing with EC1-A I lost more than 10 games in a row and managed to rank down an lot but I thought I had just to get used to it. After 2 months the IME 3.0 is still playing in another league.


Wow, that's pretty good. I'm usually at about 2 to 2.5 KD in deathmatches. I start off strong but by the time I get to 200 kills I start to lose focus and get sloppy.

I also couldn't use the EC1-A after using an ambi mouse for long time. It just didn't feel like I could control the mouse the way I wanted to.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shatterboxd3*
> 
> Wow, that's pretty good. I'm usually at about 2 to 2.5 KD in deathmatches. I start off strong but by the time I get to 200 kills I start to lose focus and get sloppy.
> 
> I also couldn't use the EC1-A after using an ambi mouse for long time. It just didn't feel like I could control the mouse the way I wanted to.


I play a lot of BF4 (mainly Conquest) but in TDM sessions, I generally switch to my ZA12 or Logitech G303. For Battlefield, depending on the weapon you use, it's all about short controlled bursts which can result in sometimes spam clicking. Unfortunately, the EC2-A's switches are the stiffest of all the mice I own making it a chore to tap for short controlled bursts (at least for me since I'm a claw/fingertip gripper). The ZA series (in my experience) have the lightest pressure to actuate (in regards to Huano switches).


----------



## shatterboxd3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I play a lot of BF4 (mainly Conquest) but in TDM sessions, I generally switch to my ZA12 or Logitech G303. For Battlefield, depending on the weapon you use, it's all about short controlled bursts which can result in sometimes spam clicking. Unfortunately, the EC2-A's switches are the stiffest of all the mice I own making it a chore to tap for short controlled bursts (at least for me since I'm a claw/fingertip gripper). The ZA series (in my experience) have the lightest pressure to actuate (in regards to Huano switches).


Hmm, I've only played a bit of BF games. I just couldn't get used to the mechanics. Only FPS I play is Counter Strike.

I Have to agree with you there on the ZA, my ZA11 is the most comfortable mouse I've used, and has made me stop the search for "the perfect mouse" until (if) they release it with the 3360 or better.


----------



## maibuN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shatterboxd3*
> 
> Wow, that's pretty good. I'm usually at about 2 to 2.5 KD in deathmatches. I start off strong but by the time I get to 200 kills I start to lose focus and get sloppy.
> 
> I also couldn't use the EC1-A after using an ambi mouse for long time. It just didn't feel like I could control the mouse the way I wanted to.


No, don't get me wrong, I am not a good player







I play CS:GO and KD 2 or above on the official DM servers isn't very good because the players there are just bad. Good players play only on community servers or external leagues like faceit and there I get only 1 K/D. I was just wondering about the difference going from 2 K/D to 4-5 K/D only by using my old mouse again. That was really frustrating for me because I love the look and the feel of the EC1-A but it seems like i can do better with the 10 years old MS mouse and I really dont know why?! Maybe I should try the ZA11 or any ambidextrous mouse? I tried only once an ambidextrous mouse (I think it's name was Microsoft IntelliMouse Optical 1.1A and I didn't like it very much and so I never looked at ambidextrous mice again. Maybe a fault?


----------



## maibuN

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Unfortunately, the EC2-A's switches are the stiffest of all the mice I own making it a chore to tap for short controlled bursts (at least for me since I'm a claw/fingertip gripper). The ZA series (in my experience) have the lightest pressure to actuate (in regards to Huano switches).


I remember I always read it was the other way round: EC1/2-A very light clicks and the other zowie mice very stiff clicks. Am I remembering wrong? You say that ZA11 has lighter clicks? I also dislike the stiff clicks of my EC1-A. If I have to react fast I always need that extra time to press the stiff button down which feels it takes much longer than with other mice.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> I remember I always read it was the other way round: EC1/2-A very light clicks and the other zowie mice very stiff clicks. Am I remembering wrong? You say that ZA11 has lighter clicks? I also dislike the stiff clicks of my EC1-A. If I have to react fast I always need that extra time to press the stiff button down which feels it takes much longer than with other mice.


I have a ZA13 and an EC2-A


This is subjective since everyone has different grips, styles, hand sizes, etc. etc. But in my experience with both these mice, the ZA13 has lighter switches than the EC2-A. I verified with BenQ's customer service by reading out the S/N #s for both mice and they both are equipped with the 'new' Huano switches. The culprit for the stiffness of the switches is related to the shell design. This makes sense because the buttons are not segregated (like on the FinalMouse or G303) and are all part of the shell body.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> I remember I always read it was the other way round: EC1/2-A very light clicks and the other zowie mice very stiff clicks. Am I remembering wrong? You say that ZA11 has lighter clicks? I also dislike the stiff clicks of my EC1-A. If I have to react fast I always need that extra time to press the stiff button down which feels it takes much longer than with other mice.


You are remembering correctly, the Ec seres is known to have the lighter clicks, i've used 1-A & the Za11, the 1-A is much lighter.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> You are remembering correctly, the Ec seres is known to have the lighter clicks, i've used 1-A & the Za11, the 1-A is much lighter.


You may be right. Again, it's subjective. Could be the way my grip is (hybrid claw/fingertip). I have both pictured mice right in front of me and I've done the random co-worker test. "Hey man, click on the mouse buttons on each of these mice. Tell me which one is stiffer to you". Of the 6 co-workers who have tried, they all said the ZA13 had the lightest clicks. Note: None of these co-workers are gamers







Purely subjective!


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> You may be right. Again, it's subjective. Could be the way my grip is (hybrid claw/fingertip). I have both pictured mice right in front of me and I've done the random co-worker test. "Hey man, click on the mouse buttons on each of these mice. Tell me which one is stiffer to you". Of the 6 co-workers who have tried, they all said the ZA13 had the lightest clicks. Note: None of these co-workers are gamers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Purely subjective!


za13 is quite friggin small, that could be a factor as well. We should run some bf4 together, always looking for more players to play with.


----------



## shatterboxd3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> No, don't get me wrong, I am not a good player
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I play CS:GO and KD 2 or above on the official DM servers isn't very good because the players there are just bad. Good players play only on community servers or external leagues like faceit and there I get only 1 K/D. I was just wondering about the difference going from 2 K/D to 4-5 K/D only by using my old mouse again. That was really frustrating for me because I love the look and the feel of the EC1-A but it seems like i can do better with the 10 years old MS mouse and I really dont know why?! Maybe I should try the ZA11 or any ambidextrous mouse? I tried only once an ambidextrous mouse (I think it's name was Microsoft IntelliMouse Optical 1.1A and I didn't like it very much and so I never looked at ambidextrous mice again. Maybe a fault?


Oh haha. Yeah I don't even touch the Valve DM, it would even be a better use of my time playing on aim_botz than valve DM.

People say it often, Grip/Feel > Sensor and if you're more comfortable with the IE 3.0 than the EC1, then that's just how it is. No amount of practice with a mouse that wasn't comfortable for me ever overcame my dislike for a shape. The EC1 is comfortable in my hand, in fact I'm using it now while at work, but I could just never feel comfortable aiming with it in game. Could be the same sort of thing for you?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> I remember I always read it was the other way round: EC1/2-A very light clicks and the other zowie mice very stiff clicks. Am I remembering wrong? You say that ZA11 has lighter clicks? I also dislike the stiff clicks of my EC1-A. If I have to react fast I always need that extra time to press the stiff button down which feels it takes much longer than with other mice.


I've used all Zowie shapes, click stiffness for me has been

EC1/2-a -> ZA 11 -> FK1 from lightest to heaviest. The FK1 was actually my favorite click feeling, it was just so tactile, and I wish the ZA11 was the same.


----------



## agsz

Is the LED brighter on the new scroll-wheels or something? Every Zowie BenQ picture I see, the LED looks much brighter.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Is the LED brighter on the new scroll-wheels or something? Every Zowie BenQ picture I see, the LED looks much brighter.


On the EC2-A (red logo), I'm always on the purple setting (800 dpi) and it is rather bright. I got used to it though. The 'new' ZA and FK series sport black scroll wheels and the only LED is on the bottom to tell you what DPI you're on (which I appreciate, no nonsense).


----------



## sl4ppy

Just picked up an EC1-A from the BenQ Ebay store.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151977894898?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

The listing seems to indicate that it's the post-recall version calling out "*Now equipped with new Huano switches!*"...

Anyone have any insight as to whether that's true or not?


----------



## sandywind

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shatterboxd3*
> 
> EC1/2-a -> ZA 11 -> FK1 from lightest to heaviest. The FK1 was actually my favorite click feeling, it was just so tactile, and I wish the ZA11 was the same.


Is the click feel on EC1/2-A as "spongy" as it was in the EC1 Evo CL, and with a long key travel before actuation? (Do not know if this feature is what elsewhere is called "latency".).


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sandywind*
> 
> Is the click feel on EC1/2-A as "spongy" as it was in the EC1 Evo CL, and with a long key travel before actuation? (Do not know if this feature is what elsewhere is called "latency".).


Zowie mice in general are 'average' when it comes to button latency comparisons (Logitech seems to make the mice with the lowest button latency/lag numbers). This is subjective as well because not everyone has lightning quick reflexes. Also, the stiffness of the switches contributes to the milliseconds of delay when comparing to a mouse with Omron (in which some like the Mionix Castor have hair triggerlike sensitivity).

What's weird about my ZA13 and EC2-A, when spamming short controlled bursts, every now and then, the LMB does indeed feel 'weird'. And then after maybe 50 more clicks, it feels normal and tactile again. It's very weird but happens quite often with any Zowie mouse (with Huano switches) that I've used.


----------



## auraofjason

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sl4ppy*
> 
> Just picked up an EC1-A from the BenQ Ebay store.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/151977894898?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> The listing seems to indicate that it's the post-recall version calling out "*Now equipped with new Huano switches!*"...
> 
> Anyone have any insight as to whether that's true or not?


It is true. My EC2-A from there has them.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *auraofjason*
> 
> It is true. My EC2-A from there has them.


Yep. I can can concur that this is true because I took my EC2-A apart to remedy the mysterious mushy clicks I was getting with it. Mine has the red logo and when I took it apart, the switches literally say 'HUANO' on them.


----------



## Alya

There's nothing different, the Omron recall occurred ages ago, but maybe they're using new Huanos? I know the FK (non-1/2) had Huano yellow tops.


----------



## shatterboxd3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sandywind*
> 
> Is the click feel on EC1/2-A as "spongy" as it was in the EC1 Evo CL, and with a long key travel before actuation? (Do not know if this feature is what elsewhere is called "latency".).


I have big hands, so I tend to click almost on the front edge of the mouse buttons. It feels a bit spongy there, but if I click right over the mouse switch, it feels crisp.


----------



## sandywind

I would like to try EC1/2-A but the click feel I prefer is like Avior's click feel, if I understand well very different. On the other hand I would also like to try FK1 but I fear it is too stiff, for example if it were stiff like a a standard Kinzu (non pro) tha would be too much. The Zowie AM-FG has the maximum stiffness I can live with, and that has been reported to be softer than FK1. Hmm...


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sandywind*
> 
> I would like to try EC1/2-A but the click feel I prefer is like Avior's click feel, if I understand well very different. On the other hand I would also like to try FK1 but I fear it is too stiff, for example if it were stiff like a a standard Kinzu (non pro) tha would be too much. The Zowie AM-FG has the maximum stiffness I can live with, and that has been reported to be softer than FK1. Hmm...


I didn't like the Avior 7000 main buttons. Eew...

The FK's button piece is thick at the bending area, this makes the buttons much stiffer. If you go with lighter switches the buttons will still feel stiff (relative to other mice) and you won't get a distinct click. Also, the ambidextrous Zowie mice have a steep drop after the apex, which doesn't help lessen the stiffness. To reduce the stiffness you have to thin out the button piece where it bends.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I didn't like the Avior 7000 main buttons. Eew...
> 
> The FK's button piece is thick at the bending area, this makes the buttons much stiffer. If you go with lighter switches the buttons will still feel stiff (relative to other mice) and you won't get a distinct click. Also, the ambidextrous Zowie mice have a steep drop after the apex, which doesn't help lessen the stiffness. To reduce the stiffness you have to thin out the button piece where it bends.


I firmly believe the shell is the biggest culprit to the Huano switches having the reputation of being 'stiff'. When I took apart my EC2-A to remedy the mushy feeling to the LMB/RMB switches, I noticed how it took little to no pressure at all to actuate and hear the click to them. That can't be right. But it's true. If you ever get your hands on an actual bare bones Huano switch, you'll see how easy it is to click. I'm sure if the left and right mouse buttons were segregated from the shell itself (like the G303), you'd have crisper and lighter clicks. Logitech has this and implemented springs to push the segregated button back up (rather than rely on the shell design itself to do that for you). Having Omrons may help, but the shell design will make those feel stiffer than the usual Omrons we're used to on other mice.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I firmly believe the shell is the biggest culprit to the Huano switches having the reputation of being 'stiff'. When I took apart my EC2-A to remedy the mushy feeling to the LMB/RMB switches, I noticed how it took little to no pressure at all to actuate and hear the click to them. That can't be right. But it's true. If you ever get your hands on an actual bare bones Huano switch, you'll see how easy it is to click. I'm sure if the left and right mouse buttons were segregated from the shell itself (like the G303), you'd have crisper and lighter clicks. Logitech has this and implemented springs to push the segregated button back up (rather than rely on the shell design itself to do that for you). Having Omrons may help, but the shell design will make those feel stiffer than the usual Omrons we're used to on other mice.


I take apart my Zowie mice often.

The blue Huano switches (found in the latest Zowie mice) feel very similar to 20m Chinese Omrons. They also have a somewhat similar design as the Japanese Omron switches. So you get a switch that is similar in actuation force as the much loved Chinese Omrons and you get a little more of distinct click like a Japanese Omron.


----------



## maibuN

What do you mean by "latest Zowie mice"? Does that mean the new BenQ Zowie models have different (significantly lighter) switches than the "old" models or not?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> What do you mean by "latest Zowie mice"? Does that mean the new BenQ Zowie models have different (significantly lighter) switches than the "old" models or not?


The 3090 Zowie mice had stiffer Huanos switches. Zowie Gear changed the switches to blue Huano switches for the 3310 mice. For 1 small BenQ/Zowie batch they used Omrons, then recalled those mice.

The blue Huano switches are about the same stiffness as the widely used 20 million Chinese Omrons. The buttons of my ZA13 feel very similar to my IntelliMouse Optical.


----------



## sandywind

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The 3090 Zowie mice had stiffer Huanos switches. Zowie Gear changed the switches to blue Huano switches for the 3310 mice. For 1 small BenQ/Zowie batch they used Omrons, then recalled those mice.
> 
> The blue Huano switches are about the same stiffness as the widely used 20 million Chinese Omrons. The buttons of my ZA13 feel very similar to my IntelliMouse Optical.


Summarizing, if I get one item (FK1, most probably, but also a EC-1/2 or ZA1*) of the post-Benq transition I will most likely still notice a large difference with Avior's click feel, due to the rigidity of the shell, despite blue Huanos. Is this right?

(Curiosity: why didn't you like Avior's buttons? They are light, no doubt, but also predictable and with no perceived delay).


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> 
> Sensor position of 120 is 63.4mm. If it is 123mm, it is 64.985mm. Pretty optimal sensor position for EC2-A.
> 
> 
> EC1 Evo CL sensor position. Pretty Sure EC1-A reflects this. Not very optimal, but doable.


Why do people say the Zowie EC2-A has ideal sensor placement, but the Zowie EC1-A doesn't, when they are pretty much identically placed?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sandywind*
> 
> Summarizing, if I get one item (FK1, most probably, but also a EC-1/2 or ZA1*) of the post-Benq transition I will most likely still notice a large difference with Avior's click feel, due to the rigidity of the shell, despite blue Huanos. Is this right?
> 
> (Curiosity: why didn't you like Avior's buttons? They are light, no doubt, but also predictable and with no perceived delay).


The EC series will give you lighter buttons than the FK. The ZA series will feel a bit lighter than the FK and probably have more of a definitive click.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1469836/mionix-avior-7000-first-impressions-review/1770_30#post_23838154


----------



## fak1t

So if i buy the new Benq ec1-a the switchs are harder to click or soft (mouse 1 and mouse 2)?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fak1t*
> 
> So if i buy the new Benq ec1-a the switchs are harder to click or soft (mouse 1 and mouse 2)?


The EC1/2 will give you the softest buttons out of all the Zowie mice.


----------



## Slaps

I have both the EC1 and the EC2. I prefer the EC2, but it's just slightly too narrow for me ( at the middle of the mouse). Because it's narrow I don't get the proper support under my knuckles of my hand and I have to bend my thumb inwards. The EC1 is a worse fit, unfortunately a bit too long and tall in the shape. I use a fingertip grip.

Any mice recommendations?


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The EC1/2 will give you the softest buttons out of all the Zowie mice.


This is highly subjective. Depending on how you hold the mouse, your grip and hand size, many would say the ZA series has the softest or the FK series does or vice versa. Everyone's experience may differ.

I have an 17+ cm hands and found the EC2-A to have the stiffest buttons. Zowie mouse buttons aren't exactly fingertip spamming friendly. Having taken apart Zowie mice, it's not the buttons that are the culprit, in fact, Huano switches take little to no pressure to actuate once you actually get your hold on one.It's the shell itself. I never understood the 1 piece as a whole approach for mouse buttons. Segregating the buttons seems more efficient (again, subjective)


----------



## maibuN

http://www.mouse-sensitivity.com/dpianalyzer.html

I did this test with my EC1-A and on the 800 DPI settings the calculator says it has 715-720 DPI. Maybe this calculator doesnt work correctly or is there maybe something wrong with my mouse? Can the hyperglides (0.8mm instead or original 0.7mm thickness) change the DPI so much?


----------



## Stats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> This is highly subjective. Depending on how you hold the mouse, your grip and hand size, many would say the ZA series has the softest or the FK series does or vice versa. Everyone's experience may differ.
> 
> I have an 17+ cm hands and found the EC2-A to have the stiffest buttons. Zowie mouse buttons aren't exactly fingertip spamming friendly. Having taken apart Zowie mice, it's not the buttons that are the culprit, in fact, Huano switches take little to no pressure to actuate once you actually get your hold on one.It's the shell itself. I never understood the 1 piece as a whole approach for mouse buttons. Segregating the buttons seems more efficient (again, subjective)


you are the only one i have ever seen trying to disagree with this


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stats*
> 
> you are the only one i have ever seen trying to disagree with this


On the other hand, I have seen many people say EC > ZA or ZA < FK or blah blah blah. I have friends who I chat with in-game on BF4 and CS:GO who have shared their experiences regarding whatever Zowie mouse is on the market and not all of them necessarily chime in their opinions on Huano switch preferences on Overclock.net or Reddit. Just sayin'


----------



## maibuN

I got ZA11 today to compare it with my EC1-A and can confirm that ZA11 has lighter / better clicks (at least mouse1, mousewheel is VERY hard to press)


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> I got ZA11 today to compare it with my EC1-A and can confirm that ZA11 has lighter / better clicks (at least mouse1, mousewheel is VERY hard to press)


Not to mention, the side buttons are most likely better (at least in comparison to my ZA12 vs. EC2-A). For a $60 mouse, the EC probably has some of the worst side buttons I've ever used on a gaming mouse. Feels like it's going to break!


----------



## maibuN

Yes I can confirm the side buttons of ZA11 are also much better. But what is wrong with the scroll wheel? Scroll wheel of EC1-A is way better and easier to click. I feel like my finger is almost too weak to click the wheel down it's more like an strength exercise for the fingers. The EC1-A wheel is soo much better and also bigger which is also better







( I have the got the "old" non BenQ model of both EC1-A and ZA11 if this matters)

I am still confused why the DPI calculator says my EC1-A has only 710-720 dpi on 800 dpi setting. For the ZA11 it has calculated 750-760 dpi. Can the 0.1 mm thicker hyperglides make such a difference?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> This is highly subjective. Depending on how you hold the mouse, your grip and hand size, many would say the ZA series has the softest or the FK series does or vice versa. Everyone's experience may differ.
> 
> I have an 17+ cm hands and found the EC2-A to have the stiffest buttons. Zowie mouse buttons aren't exactly fingertip spamming friendly. Having taken apart Zowie mice, it's not the buttons that are the culprit, in fact, Huano switches take little to no pressure to actuate once you actually get your hold on one.It's the shell itself. I never understood the 1 piece as a whole approach for mouse buttons. Segregating the buttons seems more efficient (again, subjective)


The switches are further back on the EC series. I don't know how the new coating will affect the stiffness of the shell, but the switches are closer to where you press the buttons.

The AM, FK and ZA have the switches further forward than the EC. After owning the EC1 eVo, EC2 eVo, AM-FG, AM-GS, FK and ZA13, I had major issues with the stiffness of the FK; second to the FK is probably the AM-GS because of the rubber coating.

I exchange PCBs between the AM-GS, AM-FG, FK and ZA13; same goes for the scroll wheels. That gives a better perspective of the shells without having the variances confusing me. Then again, I am not measuring the actual force required, it's just my opinion. I guess I could buy one of those force gauges to prove what's what.


----------



## sandywind

Maybe one could draw force/distance diagrams as keyboard enthusiasts do. I think that the EC series has a different diagram which may be confusing concerning the actual force when the switch registers. This is true also for the AM-FG to a lesser extent. My comparison terms are other brands like CM Storm, Mionix and Roccat which seem to be able to manufacture shells with limited pre-travel (think this is the term popups used in the review referenced some posts above).

This could be consistent with what popups says about Zowie shells being rigid due to their thickness.

Just an idea.


----------



## fak1t

are
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> This is highly subjective. Depending on how you hold the mouse, your grip and hand size, many would say the ZA series has the softest or the FK series does or vice versa. Everyone's experience may differ.
> 
> I have an 17+ cm hands and found the EC2-A to have the stiffest buttons. Zowie mouse buttons aren't exactly fingertip spamming friendly. Having taken apart Zowie mice, it's not the buttons that are the culprit, in fact, Huano switches take little to no pressure to actuate once you actually get your hold on one.It's the shell itself. I never understood the 1 piece as a whole approach for mouse buttons. Segregating the buttons seems more efficient (again, subjective)


Are you talking about the new benq ec2-a? do you consider the IE 3.0 a palm grip friendly?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fak1t*
> 
> are
> Are you talking about the new benq ec2-a? do you consider the IE 3.0 a palm grip friendly?


Of course it is palm friendly.


----------



## fak1t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Of course it is palm friendly.


Well i have been playing with a mix fintertip grip 70% and 30% palm grip since 2008, and all of the lans i did i saw alot of team mates and opponents with fingertip grip on IE 3.0









btw i just saw this video and seems the zowies site doesnt have the right dimension of the ec1-a and the ec2-a

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VSnZ4ICOt0

both are smaller lol


----------



## Klopfer

I thought I like the EC1 ... in form of Shape , yea I like it , it's not "perfect or extremly good" , but it's OK ...
but what the FHell , I played now some days with a pmw3320 sensor , it feels so much better as the 3310 ...
when I switched back to the 3310 Zowie , it seems that I cant hit a Christmastree , but my crosshair was on point ( in my opinion ) ...
so why ? just coz of the smoothing from the sensor ? buttondelay? ...
Edit :
coz censorshipment


----------



## mint567

Quote:


> I thought I like the EC1 ... in form of Shape , yea I like it , it's not "perfect or extremly good" , but it's OK ...
> but what the FHell , I played now some days with a pmw3320 sensor , it feels so much better as the 3310 ...
> when I switched back to the 3310 Zowie , it seems that I cant hit a Christmastree , but my crosshair was on point ( in my opinion ) ...
> so why ? just coz of the smoothing from the sensor ? buttondelay? ...
> Edit :
> coz censorshipment


I have the same problem... not sure what it is. I am fine with Rival/Deathadder/KPM etc but EC1 is just off. If I had to guess it is the button delay. The sensor doesn't feel as good as the others but the shape is really nice.


----------



## fak1t

I dont understand why people keep saying there is delay on ec2a or ec1a , how is dat possible? Since the da chroma has an identical sensor , i heard the benq pw3310 is slight better than the razer one, are you using old versions or what?
Can someone tell me if the dimensions of your benq ec1-a / ec2-a are exactly the same benqs site dimentions, im really curious about that, even doe i heard people saying the ie 3.0 is way bigger than the ec1-a .

Cheers


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fak1t*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I dont understand why people keep saying there is delay on ec2a or ec1a , how is dat possible? Since the da chroma has an identical sensor , i heard the benq pw3310 is slight better than the razer one, are you using old versions or what?
> Can someone tell me if the dimensions of your benq ec1-a / ec2-a are exactly the same benqs site dimentions, im really curious about that, even doe i heard people saying the ie 3.0 is way bigger than the ec1-a .
> 
> Cheers


DA Chroma employs the 3989, not the 3310. And the EC series has always had the same dimensions iirc.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fak1t*
> 
> I dont understand why people keep saying there is delay on ec2a or ec1a , how is dat possible? Since the da chroma has an identical sensor , i heard the benq pw3310 is slight better than the razer one, are you using old versions or what?


Delay, click latency, button lag, mouse smoothing................ regardless of what mouse using what sensor made by what brand, you will eventually get used to whatever mouse of choice you use and your reflexes (or lack of) will make up for it. A good sensor is helpful, but it won't magically grant you faster reflexes and reaction time









If you use a mouse long enough, your muscle memory, reflexes and familiarity will eventually help you use that mouse to its full potential.

I personally think the 3310 sensor is as overrated as Omron switches (again, that's subjective)


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> I thought I like the EC1 ... in form of Shape , yea I like it , it's not "perfect or extremly good" , but it's OK ...
> but what the FHell , I played now some days with a pmw3320 sensor , it feels so much better as the 3310 ...
> when I switched back to the 3310 Zowie , it seems that I cant hit a Christmastree , but my crosshair was on point ( in my opinion ) ...
> so why ? just coz of the smoothing from the sensor ? buttondelay? ...
> Edit :
> coz censorshipment


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mint567*
> 
> I have the same problem... not sure what it is. I am fine with Rival/Deathadder/KPM etc but EC1 is just off. If I had to guess it is the button delay. The sensor doesn't feel as good as the others but the shape is really nice.


Funny that you both brought this up, i have been using my Ec1-A heavily & i just feel my aim is not on however i keep giving it time & giving it time. I absolutely adore the shape, easily the best in my hand without a doubt. But i've been able to hit squaaaaat consistently & it had been bothering me.

So today i plug in my Chroma, & i begin to hit some ridiculous shots allllll night while playing & my consistency was through the roof. Makes 0 sense to me, but i will say something about the 4G sensor in the DA is just so dam good to me, responsive & i can hit shots. Trumps the 3310 to me.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fak1t*
> 
> I dont understand why people keep saying there is delay on ec2a or ec1a , how is dat possible? Since the da chroma has an identical sensor , i heard the benq pw3310 is slight better than the razer one, are you using old versions or what?
> Can someone tell me if the dimensions of your benq ec1-a / ec2-a are exactly the same benqs site dimentions, im really curious about that, even doe i heard people saying the ie 3.0 is way bigger than the ec1-a .
> 
> Cheers


From my understanding(someone will correct me if i am wrong or help) the 3310 is not exactly 'better' than the 3998, but it does hold it's ground as a top sensor currently.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Delay, click latency, button lag, mouse smoothing................ regardless of what mouse using what sensor made by what brand, you will eventually get used to whatever mouse of choice you use and your reflexes (or lack of) will make up for it. A good sensor is helpful, but it won't magically grant you faster reflexes and reaction time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you use a mouse long enough, your muscle memory, reflexes and familiarity will eventually help you use that mouse to its full potential.
> 
> I personally think the 3310 sensor is as overrated as Omron switches (again, that's subjective)


I do agree, that if you use a mouse long enough you will get better with it. I am trying to figure out why i can not use my DA FOR MONTHS, plug it in & go banana's on hoes with it. I do know the dimensions are similar to the zowie, except the zowie is 1mm longer, while the DA is 1 MM wider & it is has a 1 MM higher of a hump. Do those two mm make a difference really when i am using it? I am not 100% certain on a yes or no. However arguing witb results can be foolish.

Just last night my aim in bf4 was so offfff with the ec1-a, today with the DA i ran through teams.


----------



## fak1t

Zowie ec2-a https://youtu.be/1_GVLR2TYuk

Razer Deathadder Chroma

https://youtu.be/tP067qJbCNs

As the op said he had problems with the LOD on the razer mouse , making him inconsistent .


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mint567*
> 
> I have the same problem... not sure what it is. I am fine with Rival/Deathadder/KPM etc but EC1 is just off. If I had to guess it is the button delay. The sensor doesn't feel as good as the others but the shape is really nice.


Same issue here. Taking some time off and hoping that helps, because I love the Zowie EC1-A shape.


----------



## fak1t

For who is saying the aim is off or something like when playing with the zowie mouse , can i ask you guys whats your settings / sensivity in game like ,csgo for example .


----------



## Klopfer

1024x768 stretched
1.6 @400cpi


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fak1t*
> 
> For who is saying the aim is off or something like when playing with the zowie mouse , can i ask you guys whats your settings / sensivity in game like ,csgo for example .


1.9 sens @ 400 dpi / 1000Hz ~ 1920x1080


----------



## fak1t

you guys are using m_raw 1 on console right?


----------



## Klopfer

nope , coz rawinput in go feels weird
win 6/11 no accel


----------



## fak1t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> nope , coz rawinput in go feels weird
> win 6/11 no accel


Give a try , in terms of aim its the best for sure.


----------



## Klopfer

I did months ago , but it just feels weird , not good , not responsive , more delayed ( ? ) ...
I also tried 500Hz and 1000Hz ... hmmm 500Hz always feel better for me








I feeled fine with EC1A and ZA11 long time , but after trying some weeks the pmw 3320 , it feels just "wrong" , dunno why


----------



## VESPA5

I went back to my Mionix Castor after using the G303 and its snappy PMW3366. Going back to the 3310 sensor didn't seem like a big difference. And then going to my EC2-A was nothing special coming from a PMW3366. I had more of a tougher time adjusting back to Huano switches after using the G303's awesome buttons (the Castor has hair triggerlike buttons on the other hand). After a few hours of gaming, you just get used how your mouse feels and responds (at least I do). I don't try to pay too much attention to stuff like button lag comparisons and sensor comparisons. If the mice feels good and I'm having fun playing games using it, that's all that matters.


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> I did months ago , but it just feels weird , not good , not responsive , more delayed ( ? ) ...
> I also tried 500Hz and 1000Hz ... hmmm 500Hz always feel better for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I feeled fine with EC1A and ZA11 long time , but after trying some weeks the pmw 3320 , it feels just "wrong" , dunno why


The opposite for me with the ec1-a, 500hz was really bad. There was noticeable delay and I felt it when I'm trying to control the recoil of the rifles in csgo. It would actually feel like there's some skipping in the middle of the 1st to 8th bullets when firing. I even tried switching mouse pads but it was the same. 1000hz it feels better.


----------



## hotwheels1997

If you experience worse aim with a Zowie mouse, up your sensitivity a bit. 800dpi is really around 740-750. Same goes for all DPI steps. You can't use the same number in-game as with a DA Chroma or a G303 ,for example, because they both have around 820 real dpi on the 800DPI setting. Even though you're playing on supposedly the same DPI, there is a difference of 40-70DPI between certain mice and Zowie's, a difference that can throw somebody's aim out the window. I played just fine with my EC2-A ,coming from a DA, but I had to up my sens from 1 to 1.04 in order to get the same 1:1 sensitivity. Using the G303 currently, my sens is 0.96 in order to be identical as 1.04 on the EC2-A.


----------



## bond10

Can anyone with a EC1 and a DA compare the size feeling between the two? Is the DA wider/taller/longer? I'm trying to replace my DA and bought a EC2-A but that thing is way too small and thin.


----------



## mint567

The deathadder feels wider and feels flatter (lower) than the EC1-A in the front near the scroll wheel. The feel between the two are similar but different.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bond10*
> 
> Can anyone with a EC1 and a DA compare the size feeling between the two? Is the DA wider/taller/longer? I'm trying to replace my DA and bought a EC2-A but that thing is way too small and thin.


The size feeling is quite similar obviously, the deathadder is PERFECT if it didn't flare out on the top right. That Protrusion is the most annoying thing about the friggin mouse,
It digs into my ring finger.

The DA has a more aggressive hump than the Ec1a & it is 1mm higher, which i can certainly feel when comparing. The DA is a little shorter at 127 mm to the ec1-a's 128 & the DA is 70 mm to the Ec1-A's 69 in width at the widest point.

Overall the Zowie is more comfortable when up against the DA because of the DA's stupid right flare.

I also Palm if that helps you out.

I am actually planning to test out an EC2-A today, i have a fairly large hand & i keep seeing some other people with big hands say that it is too small/thin which makes me sad. But i also see some witb big hands say they prefer it so idk.Lol


----------



## fak1t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> I did months ago , but it just feels weird , not good , not responsive , more delayed ( ? ) ...
> I also tried 500Hz and 1000Hz ... hmmm 500Hz always feel better for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I feeled fine with EC1A and ZA11 long time , but after trying some weeks the pmw 3320 , it feels just "wrong" , dunno why


Could be fps related,
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> The size feeling is quite similar obviously, the deathadder is PERFECT if it didn't flare out on the top right. That Protrusion is the most annoying thing about the friggin mouse,
> It digs into my ring finger.
> 
> The DA has a more aggressive hump than the Ec1a & it is 1mm higher, which i can certainly feel when comparing. The DA is a little shorter at 127 mm to the ec1-a's 128 & the DA is 70 mm to the Ec1-A's 69 in width at the widest point.
> 
> Overall the Zowie is more comfortable when up against the DA because of the DA's stupid right flare.
> 
> I also Palm if that helps you out.
> 
> I am actually planning to test out an EC2-A today, i have a fairly large hand & i keep seeing some other people with big hands say that it is too small/thin which makes me sad. But i also see some witb big hands say they prefer it so idk.Lol


IF so, could you tell us if u liked the ec2-a feeling? is ur hands over 18.5cm?

cheers


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fak1t*
> 
> Could be fps related,
> IF so, could you tell us if u liked the ec2-a feeling? is ur hands over 18.5cm?
> 
> cheers


I didn't go pick it up but yes my hands are over that. 21.5 cm to be exact, i believe it will be way too small at 120mm length, that is just way too small. Especially with me palming the mouse.


----------



## fak1t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> I didn't go pick it up but yes my hands are over that. 21.5 cm to be exact, i believe it will be way too small at 120mm length, that is just way too small. Especially with me palming the mouse.


Thats insane, you need like a ec1-a plus or the ie 3.0


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fak1t*
> 
> Thats insane, you need like a ec1-a plus or the ie 3.0


Yea i love Zowie, i am trying to adjust to the ec1-a from the DA. I have been having some issues with aim though. Talking with another user i hadn't even thought of the Zowie's dpi being lower than it's stated value so i have to UP my in game sens a bit plus the Sensor position on the Ec2-A is in a great position while the ec1-a's sensor isn't in as good of a position compared to the ec2-a & the DA. Trying to adjust, trying.


----------



## RDno1

So NiP just won Dreamhack Masters Malmö with everybody on the team using the EC series.


----------



## sandywind

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> I didn't go pick it up but yes my hands are over that. 21.5 cm to be exact, i believe it will be way too small at 120mm length, that is just way too small. Especially with me palming the mouse.


My hands are 18.5 cm and the DA fits exactly, and it's longer and taller that the EC2-A. I wonder, if I had an EC2-A I should adjust somewhat to give more support to my hand and avoid too much friction on the mousepad. I was surprised also by a review on YT by a gamer stating that for a 18.5 cm hand the EC2-A is a good mouse, but may be the judgement was based on a set of different factors. I understand it's a matter of preference, however, 120mm seems a short length for an average hand for palming, probably it's the lower bound, except perhaps some really tall and short mice, like the CM Storm Recon.


----------



## Zhuni

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> So NiP just won Dreamhack Masters Malmö with everybody on the team using the EC series.


And yet for the last 4 Months they've not been for sale in the UK lol. Really want another ec1 as well. What are my options for getting one?


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> So NiP just won Dreamhack Masters Malmö with everybody on the team using the EC series.


They could of done the same with Deathadders or any equivalent though..


----------



## Ka0sX

What has happened to all the ec1-a mice? cant find any anywhere in AUS, Even OCUK dont have any

Looking to buy 1


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ka0sX*
> 
> What has happened to all the ec1-a mice? cant find any anywhere in AUS, Even OCUK dont have any
> 
> Looking to buy 1


Not sure how much it will cost to ship to you, but this site has them: http://rexflo.net/products/zowie-benq-ec-series-ec1-a-gaming-mouse-free-shipping-continental-us?variant=11750534849


----------



## sl4ppy

The US is out of both too. ;/


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sl4ppy*
> 
> The US is out of both too. ;/


What? Lol idk where you buy from but here is a link, the 1-A is still in stock.

http://rexflo.net/collections/zowie


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> What? Lol idk where you buy from but here is a link, the 1-A is still in stock.
> 
> http://rexflo.net/collections/zowie


I posted that right before him too







. If you actually google Zowie EC1-A, Rexflo doesn't show up on the first 2-3 pages, and doesn't show up when you click the Shopping tab either. Probably why people are having a hard time finding Zowie mice, since only Amazon & SuperBiiz show up.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I posted that right before him too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . If you actually google Zowie EC1-A, Rexflo doesn't show up on the first 2-3 pages, and doesn't show up when you click the Shopping tab either. Probably why people are having a hard time finding Zowie mice, since only Amazon & SuperBiiz show up.


I love rexflo, i live super close & just go pick up my product & they wave the shipping fee's. Love it.

On Zowie's where to buy tab it shows them.


----------



## sl4ppy

I picked up an EC1 from the BenQ store on eBay but they are sold out of both now... I'm after a 2.

Never heard of Reflexo... If BenQ has none and Amazon lists them as 'ships in 2-3 months', it seems possible Reflexo just doesn't reflect actual stock on hand?

Edit: yep Reflexo lists the 2a as sold out too.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> I love rexflo, i live super close & just go pick up my product & they wave the shipping fee's. Love it.
> 
> On Zowie's where to buy tab it shows them.


Oh yeah, that's right. Odd that Zowie is sold out of nearly every mouse model, Zowie Camade's, Zowie Speedy Skatez, and their mousepads besides GTF-X / PTF-X. I thought the BenQ merger/funding would lead to increased production, and possibly retail availability at stores such as BestBuy & MicroCenter.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Oh yeah, that's right. Odd that Zowie is sold out of nearly every mouse model, Zowie Camade's, Zowie Speedy Skatez, and their mousepads besides GTF-X / PTF-X. I thought the BenQ merger/funding would lead to increased production, and possibly retail availability at stores such as BestBuy & MicroCenter.


Doubt it. Maybe when they drop the next line of mice with the 3360 they may just do that. Who knows though. I feel like they make just enough of the current batches to hold people off, the Ec1-A is one of(For sure)if not THE top selling mouse they have, so i think they certainly make a smaller batch of the Ec2-A. So it's literally always flippin' sold out. Anytime i check the ec1-A is always the last in stock. With selling stuff at Best Buy they would bump the hell out of sales. Especially with BB selling replacement plans for $10 on mice.


----------



## popups

They be busy with the e-sports...


----------



## VESPA5

I never understood Zowie's production management approach. They got bought out by BenQ and that merger didn't really seem to improve the stock issues. Out of stock issues actually do more harm than good to the company as a whole. I think the day I ordered my EC2-A, the damn mouse was literally set to Out of Stock right after I clicked on 'purchase'. It hasn't changed from that Out of Stock status since then and that was months ago. Either the company is barely breaking even or they're too conservative in hiring more human resources to help up the volume of their mice.

On that note, I own 2 Zowie mice. They're not exactly my favorite go to mice which is why I wonder why the demand for them is so high. I prefer my Castor and G303 over any Zowie mice. Again, that's just my experience and it's purely subjective. Hopefully you all will get your hands in this high in demand mouse.


----------



## sl4ppy

Its actually quite the opposite. Being sold out all the time but not completely unavailable is very likely intentional. It drives the notion of exclusivity of a product and pushes sales beyond what they would be otherwise. It also allows the manufacturer much smaller cash outlays for production runs as well as prevents them from sitting on inventory in warehouses, which costs even more money in storage, shipping etc. Not to mention flooding the market devalues the brand.

You can see this effect most directly in very popular restaurants; ever notice the really raved about ones are hard to get into? Yes, that's due to demand, but often it's also by design (few tables, short hours, etc) in order to drive up the perceived "exclusivity".

So no.. Its not surprising at all and is good business sense if your product has great word of mouth reputation.


----------



## ramraze

Zowie is popular but actual sales are not that much.


----------



## RDno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sl4ppy*
> 
> Its actually quite the opposite. Being sold out all the time but not completely unavailable is very likely intentional. It drives the notion of exclusivity of a product and pushes sales beyond what they would be otherwise. It also allows the manufacturer much smaller cash outlays for production runs as well as prevents them from sitting on inventory in warehouses, which costs even more money in storage, shipping etc. Not to mention flooding the market devalues the brand.
> 
> You can see this effect most directly in very popular restaurants; ever notice the really raved about ones are hard to get into? Yes, that's due to demand, but often it's also by design (few tables, short hours, etc) in order to drive up the perceived "exclusivity".
> 
> So no.. Its not surprising at all and is good business sense if your product has great word of mouth reputation.


I still don't think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks here. I think most people aren't like us here on Overclock.net and just buy another mouse if the one they want is out of stock. Zowie could probably sell a lot more mice.


----------



## Zhuni

Ec1 has been out of stock in the UK for 4 Months. People are simply buying other mice. Even a large vendor I spoke to is annoyed at zowie and thinking of dropping them. It's not good business at all.

It would be more like a good restaurant that is never open.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sl4ppy*
> 
> I picked up an EC1 from the BenQ store on eBay but they are sold out of both now... I'm after a 2.
> 
> Never heard of Reflexo... If BenQ has none and Amazon lists them as 'ships in 2-3 months', it seems possible Reflexo just doesn't reflect actual stock on hand?
> 
> Edit: yep Reflexo lists the 2a as sold out too.


Never had an issue with stock on Rexflo. That is the only place I order my Zowie gear from besides Amazon since they are 15 minutes away & I can pick up. The ec2-a is always sold out it seems, especially after the benq merger. Rexflo has had the G-SR & Camade in for a while. I just picked them up a week ago along with an Ec1-a.


----------



## fak1t

This way zowie is going to lose alot of consumers.

http://i.imgur.com/Z0UoMby.png

Ino review the ec2-a months ago and he posted this values, but this numbers = old switches, how about the new switchs? i search on the web and seems no one cares about the button latency


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fak1t*
> 
> This way zowie is going to lose alot of consumers.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/Z0UoMby.png
> 
> Ino review the ec2-a months ago and he posted this values, but this numbers = old switches, how about the new switchs? i search on the web and seems no one cares about the button latency


Button latency isn't everything. There's also mouse smoothing, implementation of the sensor, defective switches, sensor rattle (dammit, G303, why were you so cheaply made?), etc. etc. My Mionix Castor supposedly has worse button latency than any of these Zowie mice, yet I play better with it. Hell, I didn't even know about the button latency thing about the Castor till I read posts on it. I was like: "Really? Then why am I playing so well with this mouse?"

Depending on your reflexes and skill, you'll make any mouse be just an extension of those skills/reflexes. Every mouse has its quirks and shenanigans and everyone either adapts to those imperfections or just get another mouse. You also gotta put into perspective that Huanos require just a tad more pressure to actuate which actually adds to the delay. There's a reason why this mouse has been in high demand. Sure, the button latency ain't all that, but the simplistic no nonsense approach with a safe shape seems to trump everything else.


----------



## doors1991

"My Mionix Castor supposedly has worse button latency than any of these Zowie mice, yet I play better with it"

i dont have any zowie ( want to try the ec2 a ) but i have the castor and love the sensor,in my opinion is better than g502.


----------



## fak1t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RDno1*
> 
> I still don't think the benefits outweigh the drawbacks here. I think most people aren't like us here on Overclock.net and just buy another mouse if the one they want is out of stock. Zowie could probably sell a lot more mice.


He is quiet right and wrong in the same way , im still waiting for the ec2-a or the ec1-a (i didnt figured out whats the best for me since im ie 3.0 lover ) and a friend of mine was thinking the same as me , but he kinda lost his patience so he ordered the razer deathadder Chroma ,its an amazing mice as well
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Button latency isn't everything. There's also mouse smoothing, implementation of the sensor, defective switches, sensor rattle (dammit, G303, why were you so cheaply made?), etc. etc. My Mionix Castor supposedly has worse button latency than any of these Zowie mice, yet I play better with it. Hell, I didn't even know about the button latency thing about the Castor till I read posts on it. I was like: "Really? Then why am I playing so well with this mouse?"
> 
> Depending on your reflexes and skill, you'll make any mouse be just an extension of those skills/reflexes. Every mouse has its quirks and shenanigans and everyone either adapts to those imperfections or just get another mouse. You also gotta put into perspective that Huanos require just a tad more pressure to actuate which actually adds to the delay. There's a reason why this mouse has been in high demand. Sure, the button latency ain't all that, but the simplistic no nonsense approach with a safe shape seems to trump everything else.


I know mate , im just curious







i would prefer to have a 12k fps sensor doe , i dont really care about 3ms . Ive been playing cs since 1.3 and some years playing in tournaments , i think i will miss the smooth movements and the bhop style (i heard the zowie mwheel is really bad) I keep asking myself if the chroma is the best option for me over the zowie ec2-a.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fak1t*
> 
> He is quiet right and wrong in the same way , im still waiting for the ec2-a or the ec1-a (i didnt figured out whats the best for me since im ie 3.0 lover ) and a friend of mine was thinking the same as me , but he kinda lost his patience so he ordered the razer deathadder Chroma ,its an amazing mice as well
> I know mate , im just curious
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i would prefer to have a 12k fps sensor doe , i dont really care about 3ms . Ive been playing cs since 1.3 and some years playing in tournaments , i think i will miss the smooth movements and the bhop style (i heard the zowie mwheel is really bad) I keep asking myself if the chroma is the best option for me over the zowie ec2-a.


Either or are great mice. It just depends on. Your hand size, for me the DA is amazing, but i just despise the front right protrusion whch digs into my ring finger, besides that the DA shape is perfect.

The Ec1-A feels like it was talor made for the hand, fits extremely well. It just feels like apart of my arm.


----------



## Nivity

How are the buttons on EC2-A, I know its huano but are they much easier to press then the other ZA lineup from Zowie?
Anyone that play a lot of moba on higher level and like the clicks? Or are they as stiff as ZA series (shell design)

Probably been discussed in this thread somewhere, but so big!


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> How are the buttons on EC2-A, I know its huano but are they much easier to press then the other ZA lineup from Zowie?
> Anyone that play a lot of moba on higher level and like the clicks? Or are they as stiff as ZA series (shell design)
> 
> Probably been discussed in this thread somewhere, but so big!


Ecx-a series is known to have Zowie's lightest switches. In my experience the Za11 i liked but was noticeably stiffer than the Ec1-A. They are Huano's but i actually love the clicks, ec1-a has it just right. Some do not care for the aide buttons, they are placed aolidly but not better than the DA(best places side buttons to me). The issue with the Ec side button is that they have a lot of give before they actuate. Still not a problem for me.


----------



## fak1t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Ecx-a series is known to have Zowie's lightest switches. In my experience the Za11 i liked but was noticeably stiffer than the Ec1-A. They are Huano's but i actually love the clicks, ec1-a has it just right. Some do not care for the aide buttons, they are placed aolidly but not better than the DA(best places side buttons to me). The issue with the Ec side button is that they have a lot of give before they actuate. Still not a problem for me.


Mate can you tell me if the sensor placrment on the ec1-a is bothering you? In terms of smooth gameplay , wich do you prefer ec1-a or the chroma? Is the ec1-a a bit smaller? The chroma mwheel is way better for spamming to bhop ingame !? Sorry for asking this stupid questions








Cheers*


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fak1t*
> 
> Mate can you tell me if the sensor placrment on the ec1-a is bothering you? In terms of smooth gameplay , wich do you prefer ec1-a or the chroma? Is the ec1-a a bit smaller? The chroma mwheel is way better for spamming to bhop ingame !? Sorry for asking this stupid questions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers*


From what i have discussed with another user(while learnig about sensor placement), the Ec 1-a's sensor placement is not in the BEST spot but it is still pretty good. The DA's sensor placement is better. You can get use to it quickly witb no issue, hell i have. As for mouse wheel, the ec1-a has a decent wherl but i'll take the DA chroma wherl every day of the week. The ec wheel is bigger and taller. I do not b-hop since i haven't engulfed myself into cs:go yet. Lol

The Ec1-A is 1 mm longer at 128 to the DA's 127, 1 mm thinner at 69 to the DA's 70 at the widest point, Ec1-A is 1 mm lower at 43 mm to the Da's 44 in height.

In the hand they feel ridiculously similar simension wise, biggest difference is the DA's flariing out towards the top of the shape & the more aggressive hump( it sits snug under my index finger & provides a great grip).

I used the DA for 3 hears, but i'll take the ec1-a currently cause that protrusion is stupid annoying to me. On the chroma it is sharper as well compared to my previous DA.

Both mice are top notch.


----------



## fak1t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> From what i have discussed with another user(while learnig about sensor placement), the Ec 1-a's sensor placement is not in the BEST spot but it is still pretty good. The DA's sensor placement is better. You can get use to it quickly witb no issue, hell i have. As for mouse wheel, the ec1-a has a decent wherl but i'll take the DA chroma wherl every day of the week. The ec wheel is bigger and taller. I do not b-hop since i haven't engulfed myself into cs:go yet. Lol
> 
> The Ec1-A is 1 mm longer at 128 to the DA's 127, 1 mm thinner at 69 to the DA's 70 at the widest point, Ec1-A is 1 mm lower at 43 mm to the Da's 44 in height.
> 
> In the hand they feel ridiculously similar simension wise, biggest difference is the DA's flariing out towards the top of the shape & the more aggressive hump( it sits snug under my index finger & provides a great grip).
> 
> I used the DA for 3 hears, but i'll take the ec1-a currently cause that protrusion is stupid annoying to me. On the chroma it is sharper as well compared to my previous DA.
> Both mice are top notch.


Mate , i cant thank you enough ) I really appreciated your help , Cheers*


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fak1t*
> 
> Mate , i cant thank you enough ) I really appreciated your help , Cheers*


Technically, chroma is a better mouse - higher framerate, customizable cpi steps, better clicks(if you like omron that is), better sidebuttons and better scrollwheel. However, EC1 has a more universal (imo nicer) shape. Both are good picks. If you like the DA shape, go with DA. If not then, oh well, EC1 is still a good mouse.

People are saying that their DA Chromas break, but I don't know about that. If you have warranty then there should be no issue.

edit: I have had both mice, but only had build quality issues on EC1-A (shell creaking and having some leeway).


----------



## fak1t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Technically, chroma is a better mouse - higher framerate, customizable cpi steps, better clicks(if you like omron that is), better sidebuttons and better scrollwheel. However, EC1 has a more universal (imo nicer) shape. Both are good picks. If you like the DA shape, go with DA. If not then, oh well, EC1 is still a good mouse.
> 
> People are saying that their DA Chromas break, but I don't know about that. If you have warranty then there should be no issue.
> 
> edit: I have had both mice, but only had build quality issues on EC1-A (shell creaking and having some leeway).


I have to agree with you , but the ec2-a is not out of the equation (i know its way smaller than the intellimouse 3.0) but my hands are medium size i think (18,5-19 cm) and i can tell the intellimouse has been just a litle big for my mix grip , fingertip 70% palm grip 30% .


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fak1t*
> 
> Mate , i cant thank you enough ) I really appreciated your help , Cheers*


Not a problem at all.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Technically, chroma is a better mouse - higher framerate, customizable cpi steps, better clicks(if you like omron that is), better sidebuttons and better scrollwheel. However, EC1 has a more universal (imo nicer) shape. Both are good picks. If you like the DA shape, go with DA. If not then, oh well, EC1 is still a good mouse.
> 
> People are saying that their DA Chromas break, but I don't know about that. If you have warranty then there should be no issue.
> 
> edit: I have had both mice, but only had build quality issues on EC1-A (shell creaking and having some leeway).


Same here, I have never had a single issue out of my DA in my time owning one. The same also goes for my Zowie mice, never had a scrolling issue or any other QC issue.

I wouldn't say the buttons are better for the mains or sides I think it's mainly just preference, some like buttons that actuate faster like the DA's. Some like ones that aren't easy to just click in & take a little force like the Ex-a's buttons. Then the mains go the same way, the easily spammable omrons to the needing a little more umf Huano's. I can go either way to be honest when it comes to the buttons. I do agree with the scroll wheel, Raz3r has it right, along with side buttons & the placement. I again agree with the shape of the ec's being more universal. If the next DA does something about the flaring side kinda like the Mamba? i'll be using that all day err day.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fak1t*
> 
> I have to agree with you , but the ec2-a is not out of the equation (i know its way smaller than the intellimouse 3.0) but my hands are medium size i think (18,5-19 cm) and i can tell the intellimouse has been just a litle big for my mix grip , fingertip 70% palm grip 30% .


I'd say overall try both & see which you like the most, especially grip wise. Ec2-a sounds like the better option for you size wise.


----------



## SoFGR

don't forget gigabyte XM300


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoFGR*
> 
> don't forget gigabyte XM300


What about it? Lol


----------



## Nivity

DA and EC-1 is to big for my hand.
Might try the EC-2.


----------



## rivage

When are EC1-2-A going to be available in Europe? next month?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> When are EC1-2-A going to be available in Europe? next month?


Well, they're both available BenQ post-recall in my country.


----------



## sandywind

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> When are EC1-2-A going to be available in Europe? next month?


at two German on line shops from May 5, apparently


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sandywind*
> 
> at two German on line shops from May 5, apparently


I guess it's pretty obvious the delays are to do with the recall incident, so for the moment supply is short. Same thing happened in 2011, where all the sandy bridge mobos had some fault and had to be recalled. It took 3-4 months to get stock back to normal.

I'd bet zowie isn't trolling us xd or purposely limiting availability.


----------



## fak1t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> When are EC1-2-A going to be available in Europe? next month?


´

Yup


----------



## agsz

For anyone else with Zowie BenQ models; does your mouse collect fingerprints? Just noticed I have tons of finger prints all over my Zowie BenQ EC1-A, while my original black/white EC1-A didn't do that.


----------



## auraofjason

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> For anyone else with Zowie BenQ models; does your mouse collect fingerprints? Just noticed I have tons of finger prints all over my Zowie BenQ EC1-A, while my original black/white EC1-A didn't do that.


Yeah, seems to collect dirt and stuff. This is my first zowie mouse so I can't compare it to the old ones.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> For anyone else with Zowie BenQ models; does your mouse collect fingerprints? Just noticed I have tons of finger prints all over my Zowie BenQ EC1-A, while my original black/white EC1-A didn't do that.


When I first got my hands on the benQ za11. The first that came to my mind is that the coating has changed. Well, wasn't gonna use it anyway. I really find it hard to like or appreciate this kind of coating. You could rather use gloss then. Why go with these matte coatings that get grimey and slippery when you sweat. At least glossy you can have it super grippy without the slippiness.

I find something like g900/g402/ or Ss rival/roccat savu are just way better.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> When I first got my hands on the benQ za11. The first that came to my mind is that the coating has changed. Well, wasn't gonna use it anyway. I really find it hard to like or appreciate this kind of coating. You could rather use gloss then. Why go with these matte coatings that get grimey and slippery when you sweat. At least glossy you can have it super grippy without the slippiness.
> 
> I find something like g900/g402/ or Ss rival/roccat savu are just way better.


Has there been any comparisons on here regarding the surface texture of the new Zowie BenQ red logo versus the Original Zowie white logo? I'm debating doing a grip tape mod to my Zowie BenQ EC1-A.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Has there been any comparisons on here regarding the surface texture of the new Zowie BenQ red logo versus the Original Zowie white logo? I'm debating doing a grip tape mod to my Zowie BenQ EC1-A.


Ino said that they were similar but feels smoother. Check his za11 benq review, i believe it was.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Ino said that they were similar but feels smoother. Check his za11 benq review, i believe it was.


I'm actually scrolling through that right now, on my phone though. Will have to check it out on my computer shortly.

From what I can recall, the white logo EC1-A had a smoother less grippier finish, while the red logo EC1-A is like a matte finish.


----------



## Nivity

Decided to buy EC2-A, now just waiting for it to come in stock.

Hated Huanos ever since AM-FK, but since so many say that EC series are easier to press I thought ok. I have no mouse I like right now either so might as well give it a try.

I play mostly mobas but will play a lot of overwatch soon as well.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

I just snatched up an Ec2-A, we shall see how it runs. I will report back once i get some good time with it.


----------



## SmashTV

Recent topic about out of stock being detrimental is kind of true. I know at least one person personally that went with a DA instead of EC1 due to the out of stock issues.

I had decided to buy an EC2 but didn't and ended up testing ambi mice instead with that money plus some savings due to OoS. Happy I did but the money was originally meant for something else.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> I just snatched up an Ec2-A, we shall see how it runs. I will report back once i get some good time with it.


Where did you get one? My friend wants an EC2-A, and RexFlo.net only has the EC1-A.


----------



## realistic01

I just bought one from an aliexpress seller but they are selling it for $80 (USD), although its shipping to aus so its overall about the same for me.

Local online retailers mark up zowie a lot here so its the best I can do. Can't find the Ec2-a on sale anywhere else since the recall.


----------



## Zhuni

I emailed zowie and they said May 3rd back in stock with their EU website. But think I'll hold off for cheaper.


----------



## VESPA5

I think one of the drawbacks of having the EC2-A out of stock all this time is that either a) production will be rushed b) With all this anticipation comes high expectations which will make mountains out of pimples when it comes to any kind of issue or nook and cranny that might be otherwise minor for any ol' mouse.

Don't get me wrong. The EC2-A is a great mouse to use, but overall, I've had just as much success using it in comparison to my DA:Chroma and Castor. If you generally play well in whatever game you're into, the mouse's performance should just be icing on the cake of your pre-existing (or non-existing) skills and reflexes.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Where did you get one? My friend wants an EC2-A, and RexFlo.net only has the EC1-A.


I snatched a pre BenQ version off of craigslist for cheap Just to test out.


----------



## VESPA5

If anybody is interested in getting a new EC2-A on BenQ's site, get 'em while they last now before they go out of stock (AGAIN). My friend successfully ordered one. It's probably going to sell out within a few days (again)


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Where did you get one? My friend wants an EC2-A, and RexFlo.net only has the EC1-A.


Look at my last quote. Go to BenQ's website and snatch one before they run out


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Look at my last quote. Go to BenQ's website and snatch one before they run out


Already out of stock, restock on May 3rd.


----------



## VESPA5

Dayamn! That was FAST! Wow. Sorry. I figured I'd help someone out who wanted this mouse by posting it here. But hey, May 3rd is just a few days away.

I'm still baffled on the popularity of this mouse. There are so many quality mice out there (Logitech, Razer, SteelSeries, Mionix, ad infinitum), I think the "well, SoandSo5 on the MLG uses it, so I need to get my hands on it" plays into it. Or, it is simply the perfect sized mouse for a ton of people.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Already out of stock, restock on May 3rd.


Wait a minute. Are you sure? Another friend of mine completed his purchase just right now. No indication that it's backordered or won't ship till next week. He sent me this snapshot right before he clicked on purchase. Maybe international orders are backordered? Who knows.


----------



## Cajun808

Benq site says 1 left.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cajun808*
> 
> Benq site says 1 left.


Buy it and sell it on the grey market for a marginally higher price _*maniacal laughter*_


----------



## killuchen

Damn i missed the sale


----------



## popups

Ask VirtusPro to give/sale you their Zowie mice. They are not using them anymore now that they have a contract with SteelSeries.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cajun808*
> 
> Benq site says 1 left.


Well, I was trying to be helpful. Gosh, that was FAST. Did they have like only 20 in stock? Lol. I should try to sell my 4 month old EC2-A on eBay. Probably get a pretty profit for it due to demand, but I actually like this mouse.


----------



## SmashTV

Its funny during the EVO days it seemed like they had more outlets to sell from and the supply also seemed to be there.

Seems like they've scaled back.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Its funny during the EVO days it seemed like they had more outlets to sell from and the supply also seemed to be there.
> 
> Seems like they've scaled back.


It's literally because of the recall dude. Za / fk are available


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> It's literally because of the recall dude. Za / fk are available


Overall, sans the recall. I've noticed less places to buy than when I had originally bought an EC1 EVO. Might just be me though.

On that topic said recall shouldn't take so long considering the short list of available outlets and the even shorter time on the market with omrons. Almost five months now and I doubt they are stalled on obtaining switches for production.


----------



## alyk87

Hi all,

Been following this thread since trying to look for a mouse to replace my WMO. I got the ec2-a to try and boy was it a nightmare experience. Had to go through abit to make it feel similar in terms of performance.At first I felt the mouse was unresponsive, sluggish. unable to detect small movements and all. Spray was bad and uncontrollable. Sometimes I would notice it won't track at all so I went to research what the problem
Would be. Managed to come to a conclusion that it could be the LOD/skates. Tried all sorts of skates and LOD settings combinations. Keep in mind that all this are done with qck heavy. I think I probably spend around 50-60ish just for skates. Bought the hyperglides z-2 to try and after trial and error best feel I could get would be the original LOD settings. But tracking still feels sluggish and I still have the problem where sometimes the mouse will not track mainly due to me lifting the mouse too high I guess. Research again and found out that it could be the friction due to bigger surfaces of the skates. End up ordering the hyperglides 1.0/3.0 skates which are 0.8mm thick. Glide was better but skates being too thick causes lower LOD and in turn worst tracking experience for me. After that, I stumbled across thinner 1.1/3.0 skates by tiger/hotlines. Bought them and felt that tracking was way better than before. Small movements was trackable. Glide could be better though in comparison with hyperglides. I didn't have any tracking issues caused by the LOD but I wasn't impress with the glide. So I ordered the Zowie gsr and that was the final touch that I needed. Glide was better, LOD was also higher abit which suits me. I did the cd test, on qck heavy with one cd and original LOD settings it wouldn't track at all but on Zowie gsr with same
LOD settings it tracks fine and I was happy with it. So for those who have problems with the LOD u could try what I did and I would suggest using skates around 0.5/0.6mm for best experience IMO. Too thick can cause tracking issues I think.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alyk87*
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Been following this thread since trying to look for a mouse to replace my WMO. I got the ec2-a to try and boy was it a nightmare experience. Had to go through abit to make it feel..............................................


I think the "no software needed" approach for mice like this can act as a double edged sword. On one hand, the lack of software means strictly business without any hassle and potential lag/delay. But on the other hand, you've got players who own all sorts of mousepads that have different thickness and textures that a simple LOD setting would fix. I've been fortunate to use the EC2-A on a Goliathus and Glorious PC Gaming Race mouse pad with no problems. My unique problem with the EC2-A is that I've had take it apart twice now because the Huano switches either a) Got stuck in a pressed position and I had to un-jam it b) LMB or RMB suddenly felt mush and either actuated or didn't --- to be honest, I've had more problems using Huano switches than any other random switch let alone Omrons, yet Zowie reverted back to them.


----------



## alyk87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I think the "no software needed" approach for mice like this can act as a double edged sword. On one hand, the lack of software means strictly business without any hassle and potential lag/delay. But on the other hand, you've got players who own all sorts of mousepads that have different thickness and textures that a simple LOD setting would fix. I've been fortunate to use the EC2-A on a Goliathus and Glorious PC Gaming Race mouse pad with no problems. My unique problem with the EC2-A is that I've had take it apart twice now because the Huano switches either a) Got stuck in a pressed position and I had to un-jam it b) LMB or RMB suddenly felt mush and either actuated or didn't --- to be honest, I've had more problems using Huano switches than any other random switch let alone Omrons, yet Zowie reverted back to them.


Got to agree with your opinion there. Guess it just comes down to what a person desires in a mouse. It's definitely hard to find the 'perfect mouse'. For the switches, I was fortunate that I have never encounter any of your experiences. The only minor problem I experienced is spamming tec-9 in csgo! That **** is hard!


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alyk87*
> 
> Got to agree with your opinion there. Guess it just comes down to what a person desires in a mouse. It's definitely hard to find the 'perfect mouse'. For the switches, I was fortunate that I have never encounter any of your experiences. The only minor problem I experienced is spamming tec-9 in csgo! That **** is hard!


If you use an FK, oh boy, you're gonna have a real rough time on pistol rounds. I still have gotten a few insane flicks on pistol despite the extremely stiff FK switches.


----------



## alyk87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> If you use an FK, oh boy, you're gonna have a real rough time on pistol rounds. I still have gotten a few insane flicks on pistol despite the extremely stiff FK switches.


I was debating whether to get the ec2-a or fk2(I prefer small mice). Coming from a WMO, fk2 was the obvious choice. However, fk click stiffness was one of the few reasons that stir me away from the fk. Considering you said that probably confirms that ec was the right choice for me.


----------



## rivage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alyk87*
> 
> I was debating whether to get the ec2-a or fk2(I prefer small mice). Coming from a WMO, fk2 was the obvious choice. However, fk click stiffness was one of the few reasons that stir me away from the fk. Considering you said that probably confirms that ec was the right choice for me.


I hate mouses with stiff right/left buttons, I play both fps and mobas and non-stiff buttons have always been the right way to go for me.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alyk87*
> 
> I was debating whether to get the ec2-a or fk2(I prefer small mice). Coming from a WMO, fk2 was the obvious choice. However, fk click stiffness was one of the few reasons that stir me away from the fk. Considering you said that probably confirms that ec was the right choice for me.


Yeah any click spamming you have to do with the FK is not fun at all, I loved the FK's stiffness because it kicked like a mule when you let go of the switch, but actually getting it to actuate was a pain. My Kinzu is a lot more spammable.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Yeah any click spamming you have to do with the FK is not fun at all, I loved the FK's stiffness because it kicked like a mule when you let go of the switch, but actually getting it to actuate was a pain. My Kinzu is a lot more spammable.


In BF4, using ARs or Carbines, I get the best results with short controlled bursts which results in a ton of quick spamming taps. With Huanos, you either get use to it, live with it, or just say fxxx it, let me switch back to my Castor for that crisp Omron goodness.

Seriously though, if you ever had the chance of taking apart a Zowie mouse, you'll be surprised how little pressure it takes to actually actuate a Huano switch. The body is the culprit of the 'stiffness' of the mouse buttons. It's a lazy and cost effective design to have the LMB/RMB all in 1-piece with the top half of the body of a mouse, but having the mouse buttons segregated from the body make for some nice clickiness (like the G303, G900, etc. etc.)


----------



## boykisser

Not sure if I should wait for EC2 to become available on amazon or just get a mionix castor right now for $10 more.
Medium sized hands, claw grip.
Primarily ARPG player, csgo and osu secondary.


----------



## killuchen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boykisser*
> 
> Not sure if I should wait for EC2 to become available on amazon or just get a mionix castor right now for $10 more.
> Medium sized hands, claw grip.
> Primarily ARPG player, csgo and osu secondary.


It's in stock at the benq store gogogo!

http://www.benqdirect.com/zowie/esports-mice/ec2a.html


----------



## boykisser

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> It's in stock at the benq store gogogo!
> 
> http://www.benqdirect.com/zowie/esports-mice/ec2a.html


I saw. I want hassle free returns in case I don't like the mouse for whatever reason. I don't know if benqdirect will just accept return for refund without question and provide prepaid shipping label.


----------



## VESPA5

Again! Nab 'em before they run out of stock again. ALL of Zowie's mice are in stock right now. You know how fast these go so if you're interested, now is the time to order. I've never seen all their mice available at the same time.



http://www.benqdirect.com/zowie/esports-mice.html


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boykisser*
> 
> Not sure if I should wait for EC2 to become available on amazon or just get a mionix castor right now for $10 more.
> Medium sized hands, claw grip.
> Primarily ARPG player, csgo and osu secondary.


Won't be on Amazon for a good while. Don't waste your time waiting bruh.


----------



## VESPA5

Well that was fast. The EC2-A is now sold out on BenQ's site. Less than 5 hours. Thanks to the 5-6 random people who sent me thank you messages for giving them a heads up about the availability of this mouse on BenQ's site. No problem! Glad you're finally getting your hands on one.

Hopefully the expectations won't affect your impressions of this mouse. If you never used Huano switches before, this might actually be the dealbreaker for you. Enjoy!


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

More should pop up may 3rd as well(hopefully for those who want em). They should be on the way to Rexflo in the us as well.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Hopefully the expectations won't affect your impressions of this mouse. If you never used Huano switches before, this might actually be the dealbreaker for you. Enjoy!


The switches on EC series don't feel as stiff as on FK series. Pretty easy to spam with EC1/2-A. Although the stiffness in FK series did never bother me... just thought of mentioning this.


----------



## gene-z

Can anyone compare the EC2-A shape and feel to the G100s? My FK1 feels so bulky and slow to move around now that I've tried the G100s. The G100s feels so effortless to whip around in comparison.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Can anyone compare the EC2-A shape and feel to the G100s? My FK1 feels so bulky and slow to move around now that I've tried the G100s. The G100s feels so effortless to whip around in comparison.


*sigh* the G100s -- the days before Logitech started making their mice look more and more futuristic (and sometimes un-ergonomic ---- cough, cough, G302/G303, cough). The G100s is a medium sized mouse next to the FK1. Ever go a step down to an FK2? Also, your grip style plays into it. The FK series caters more towards fingertip/claw grips.


----------



## solz

Anybody know from which S/N they started to make huano again, i orderd my mouse EC1-A on esportstore.com but M1+M2 feel not like huano's at all.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solz*
> 
> Anybody know from which S/N they started to make huano again, i orderd my mouse EC1-A on esportstore.com but M1+M2 feel not like huano's at all.


Wouldn't think the S/N's would be affected, since the mice with Omron's were sent back, and replaced with Huanos.


----------



## solz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> More should pop up may 3rd as well(hopefully for those who want em). They should be on the way to Rexflo in the us as well.


They are back on stock already (Europe)


----------



## solz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Wouldn't think the S/N's would be affected, since the mice with Omron's were sent back, and replaced with Huanos.


I emailed them and i have the huano ones, i think its just the shell people mentioned the FK/ZA Series feels waaaaaay more stiff then the EC switches


----------



## agsz

For the people waiting
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solz*
> 
> I emailed them and i have the huano ones, i think its just the shell people mentioned the FK/ZA Series feels waaaaaay more stiff then the EC switches


How were they able to determine that through e-mail? Just curious, since I doubt they went through the trouble of changing serial numbers, after swapping in Huanos switches for the Omrons.

My Serial Number starts with 'GB21G', if that helps.


----------



## solz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> For the people waiting
> How were they able to determine that through e-mail? Just curious, since I doubt they went through the trouble of changing serial numbers, after swapping in Huanos switches for the Omrons.
> 
> My Serial Number starts with 'GB21G', if that helps.


I send them a mail with my S/N and they replied:
Quote:


> Hi,
> Based off the serial number, your unit should be using the Huano switches.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> ZOWIE Support Team


My S/N starts with: GB23G


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solz*
> 
> I send them a mail with my S/N and they replied:
> My S/N starts with: GB23G


I'd be shocked if they actually kept track of all the Zowie BenQ mice still out there with Omron switches, and had all their serial numbers handy.


----------



## buddynho

Impossible to get EC1-A in europe...


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buddynho*
> 
> Impossible to get EC1-A in europe...


Possible, http://www.zowiegear.dk/shop/zowie-by-benq-6782p.html , ec2-a is impossible for me atm because benq doesn't ship to my country, i ordered ec2-a from esportstore according to them the mouse coming around may 15~


----------



## solz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Possible, http://www.zowiegear.dk/shop/zowie-by-benq-6782p.html , ec2-a is impossible for me atm because benq doesn't ship to my country, i ordered ec2-a from esportstore according to them the mouse coming around may 15~


http://shop.benq.eu/store/benqeu/en_GB/list/ThemeID.19795600/categoryID.70871300

They are still in stock here


----------



## buddynho

well they add shipping fee 12 euro and some paypal + shipping makes it around 100Euro cost.Stupid as hell when the mice cost 59....


----------



## Zhuni

I just got mine to the UK from them for £54


----------



## agsz

Zowie BenQ EC2-A in stock @ Rexflo.net


----------



## t1337dude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mint567*
> 
> I have the same problem... not sure what it is. I am fine with Rival/Deathadder/KPM etc but EC1 is just off. If I had to guess it is the button delay. The sensor doesn't feel as good as the others but the shape is really nice.


What mousepads are you two using?


----------



## mint567

QCK, roccat sense, allsop, unbranded, etc. After a while I can get used to it but it is very noticeable if I decide to switch.


----------



## racer11

Does anyone know where I can get an ec2-a in eu? The official benq store does not ship to where I live ...


----------



## scardd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *racer11*
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get an ec2-a in eu? The official benq store does not ship to where I live ...


caseking.de?!
they should ship within europe but it most likely will be rather expensive shipping wise.


----------



## racer11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scardd*
> 
> caseking.de?!
> they should ship within europe but it most likely will be rather expensive shipping wise.


Thanks a lot. Managed to order one for 70€ including shipping.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Just wondering... Should I sell my white logo EC2-A for 50 euros and buy an EC2-A BenQ for 60 euros + 3 weeks delivery?
P.S. kek Praise thread on reddit


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

If your mouse is in good condition then i see no reason at all.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Just wondering... Should I sell my white logo EC2-A for 50 euros and buy an EC2-A BenQ for 60 euros + 3 weeks delivery?
> P.S. kek Praise thread on reddit


If you absolutely must have a red Zowie label over a white one, then sure. But that's the extent of it. Overall, it's mainly an aesthetic and branding change. Zy released a vid stating the differences between the old and 'new' Zowies here:

https://youtu.be/9VSnZ4ICOt0


----------



## Zhuni

I wouldnt bother. But its only a ten spot.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zhuni*
> 
> I wouldnt bother. But its only a ten spot.


Better resale value in the long run ,once they release 3360?


----------



## mihai21ro

You guys know which zowie mouse has the most similar shape to A4Tech XL-740k ? I got EC1-A right now but I feel like I could do better with a mouse more similar to that a4tech I used for a while.

Or should I wait until they release the 3360 mouse? When is that going to happen?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mihai21ro*
> 
> You guys know which zowie mouse has the most similar shape to A4Tech XL-740k ? I got EC1-A right now but I feel like I could do better with a mouse more similar to that a4tech I used for a while.
> 
> Or should I wait until they release the 3360 mouse? When is that going to happen?


You already have the mouse closest to it. I do not know the dimensions of the A4tech, but if the Ec1-a seems off then try the ec2-a. It may be smaller I have no idea but it could be closer depending on the A4tech's size that is. Again you do have the mouse closest to it. A4 does seem a little lower & also a little thinner in the middle.

You could try the CM storm alcor, it resembles that mouse as well.


----------



## mihai21ro

Looking good but the sensor isn't quite what I'm looking for. I got used to this one.

A4Tech mouse was larger and I could hold it in my hand without any problem.. ec1-a is long but not big enough in width


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mihai21ro*
> 
> Looking good but the sensor isn't quite what I'm looking for. I got used to this one.
> 
> A4Tech mouse was larger and I could hold it in my hand without any problem.. ec1-a is long but not big enough in width


weird then, because from pictures the A4 is clearly slimmer than the ec1-a. What are the dimensions of it??

the Ec1-a is 128 MM by 69mm in width & 43 mm in height. The A4 could be longer that's all I could possibly see as far as it being 'larger'.

EDIT: I found the dimensions, it is smaller than the ec1-a. The ec2-a may be a better fit for you.

the A4's dimensions are 120 MM by 65 mm in width & 40 mm in height

So the ec1-a is 8mm longer & 4 mm wider & 3 mm higher. So idk how you can feel it isn't wide enough. So try the ec2-a since it is a bit closer in every way.

EC2-a is 120 mm Length 64 MM width & 40 mm height


----------



## mihai21ro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> weird then, because from pictures the A4 is clearly slimmer than the ec1-a. What are the dimensions of it??
> 
> the Ec1-a is 128 MM by 69mm in width & 43 mm in height. The A4 could be longer that's all I could possibly see as far as it being 'larger'.
> 
> EDIT: I found the dimensions, it is smaller than the ec1-a. The ec2-a may be a better fit for you.
> 
> the A4's dimensions are 120 MM by 65 mm in width & 40 mm in height
> 
> So the ec1-a is 8mm longer & 4 mm wider & 3 mm higher. So idk how you can feel it isn't wide enough. So try the ec2-a since it is a bit closer in every way.
> 
> EC2-a is 120 mm Length 64 MM width & 40 mm height


what the hell, I guess it's too high then?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Just could be, so try the ec2-a. Should be right up your alley.


----------



## mihai21ro

Alright, thanks.


----------



## cusx

I'm a little confused, what is the latest specs for an EC1-A ? Is it Omron or Huanos ? 16 or 24 steps scroll wheel ?


----------



## koxy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solz*
> 
> I emailed them and i have the huano ones, i think its just the shell people mentioned the FK/ZA Series feels waaaaaay more stiff then the EC switches


No idea who told You that, have Fk1 by benq and ZA12(white logo and scroll) FK1 switches are less stiff than ZA12 for sure, dont have EC yet but have Logitech g303 and must say that my FK1 are stiffer but not "waaaaaay" more just a little.


----------



## solz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *koxy*
> 
> No idea who told You that, have Fk1 by benq and ZA12(white logo and scroll) FK1 switches are less stiff than ZA12 for sure, dont have EC yet but have Logitech g303 and must say that my FK1 are stiffer but not "waaaaaay" more just a little.


I owned myself a FK and ZA and the switches felt way more stiff then the EC series.


----------



## Nivity

Was not the FK series the hardest regards top switches?
Then ZA then EC? Due to the shell design.

That's what I seen people say before ;O


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Was not the FK series the hardest regards top switches?
> Then ZA then EC? Due to the shell design.
> 
> That's what I seen people say before ;O


It's highly subjective, of course, people's grip style, hand size and preferences (light vs. heavy, clicky vs. spammy, small vs. large, etc. etc.) play into it. I've taken apart my EC2-A due to questionable quality control on my copy of it and discovered how incredibly easy it was to actually actuate a Huano switch. Which leads to the shell design. The "all-in-one" approach to mice having the buttons and body as a singular piece rather than the buttons segregated from the body itself can lead to "stiff clicks". I fingertip/claw grip and I found the ZA12 to be easier to click for MY play style than my EC2-A. Again, subjective topic. I never found my EC2-A to be 'easier' to fire rounds with than my ZA12. But I have both EC and ZA mice to experience for myself what seems to be much easier to press than the other.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cusx*
> 
> I'm a little confused, what is the latest specs for an EC1-A ? Is it Omron or Huanos ? 16 or 24 steps scroll wheel ?


Huanos & 16-step scrollwheel


----------



## killuchen

Just got my zowie benq ec2-a today. I have to admit I'm really digging this mouse







. I came from the g303 and the za11 before that.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> Just got my zowie benq ec2-a today. I have to admit I'm really digging this mouse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I came from the g303 and the za11 before that.


where did u get it from thAt it was in stock


----------



## killuchen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> where did u get it from thAt it was in stock


Benqdirect


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> where did u get it from thAt it was in stock


Check out Rexflo.net a few times a day, you'll be able to get one this week probably.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Check out Rexflo.net a few times a day, you'll be able to get one this week probably.


They were last in stock just before saturday, sold out after that. maybe more coming soon, we shall see


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> Just got my zowie benq ec2-a today. I have to admit I'm really digging this mouse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I came from the g303 and the za11 before that.


You played any moba,rts or faster jitter clicking required games with all 3 mice?
G303 have like the best clicks for moba.

How do you prefer ZA11 vs G303 vs EC2 for jitter/spam clicking?


----------



## boykisser

I'm also wondering how the ec2-a clicks are compared to g303.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> You played any moba,rts or faster jitter clicking required games with all 3 mice?
> G303 have like the best clicks for moba.
> 
> How do you prefer ZA11 vs G303 vs EC2 for jitter/spam clicking?


I have a ZA12, EC2-A and G303. I would say that in my experience (subjective), the G303 has some of the best switches that I've ever used on a mouse (and Logitech is known for releasing mice with very little button latency). The ZA12 is spammy as well. I found the EC2-A to be light as well. If I had to choose between the 3 for either a MOBA or FPS session, I'd go with the G303 (if you can live with the shape). Otherwise, you really can't go wrong with the EC2-A. It's all related to your preferences. If you like tactile clicks, Huano is the way to go. If you like spammy clicks, go with Omron or some other switch.


----------



## altf4

I have g303 for couple of months, and i kinda dislike how light the clicks are, i still sometimes miss click mouse2 when shooting with usp-s, hopefully ec2-a clicks not so light as g303 lol.


----------



## Nivity

I LOVED the G303 clicks, but the shape was impossible for me to get used to, so returned it.
Tried most mice, except Zowies because of Huanos. But I am trying to decide between EC2-A, ZA13 or 12, or maybe FK2. But some say that FK series are super hard, and ZA little lighter and EC series the lightest of them.
Also not sure how the bump feels on ZA series.

Not many options left except zowies for me so time to take the plunge


----------



## kevinzone

whats the click latency when compared to the logitech mice?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I LOVED the G303 clicks, but the shape was impossible for me to get used to, so returned it.
> Tried most mice, except Zowies because of Huanos. But I am trying to decide between EC2-A, ZA13 or 12, or maybe FK2. But some say that FK series are super hard, and ZA little lighter and EC series the lightest of them.
> Also not sure how the bump feels on ZA series.
> 
> Not many options left except zowies for me so time to take the plunge


In regards to the ZA & how it feels, imagine the Fk1 except BUILT for palm grip. The hump is farther back & sits in your palm very snug.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevinzone*
> 
> whats the click latency when compared to the logitech mice?


Someone will correct me if i am wrong but i believe the Difference is around 8-10 milliseconds.


----------



## vAro

After weeks of waiting I finally received my EC-2A and I really love it. Coming from a Deathadder that was to large for my hands. The Zowie fits just perfect, I love the shape, the scrollwheel is better than expected and the side buttons doing their job just fine.

Only one thing that disturbs me is the bottom that looks a bit used. The feets are nearly perfect but the rest is scratched. The package was sealed everythings looks new and fresh... Weird.


----------



## genchou

Am planning on a Zowie but I've been reading about the recent recalls because of switch issues. There has been no info since the recall announcement (~january I think) and it is unclear if it is now safe to get a mouse from Zowie.

Do you know if the switches are good now ?


----------



## Klopfer

they use now again the same Huano , like before they wanna switch to Omron ...
so yeah , it's safe and the the Huano switches are good ( in my mind )


----------



## Wovermars1996

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vAro*
> 
> After weeks of waiting I finally received my EC-2A and I really love it. Coming from a Deathadder that was to large for my hands. The Zowie fits just perfect, I love the shape, the scrollwheel is better than expected and the side buttons doing their job just fine.
> 
> Only one thing that disturbs me is the bottom that looks a bit used. The feets are nearly perfect but the rest is scratched. The package was sealed everythings looks new and fresh... Weird.


it is weird. My EC1-A arrived brand new with mouse feet that were a little worn and weren't gliding well. Good thing they came with an extra pair of feet.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *genchou*
> 
> Am planning on a Zowie but I've been reading about the recent recalls because of switch issues. There has been no info since the recall announcement (~january I think) and it is unclear if it is now safe to get a mouse from Zowie.
> 
> Do you know if the switches are good now ?


The Huano switches are perfectly fine. Just make sure you get the latest mice that come in black and red boxes and have the red logo on the mice.


----------



## scardd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vAro*
> 
> After weeks of waiting I finally received my EC-2A and I really love it. Coming from a Deathadder that was to large for my hands. The Zowie fits just perfect, I love the shape, the scrollwheel is better than expected and the side buttons doing their job just fine.
> 
> Only one thing that disturbs me is the bottom that looks a bit used. The feets are nearly perfect but the rest is scratched. The package was sealed everythings looks new and fresh... Weird.


looks the same for me. what happend is that the plastic that is on the bottom of the mouse to protect the mousefeet actually ripped off the ink while i was taking it off (if that makes any sense







)


----------



## genchou

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wovermars1996*
> 
> it is weird. My EC1-A arrived brand new with mouse feet that were a little worn and weren't gliding well. Good thing they came with an extra pair of feet.
> The Huano switches are perfectly fine. Just make sure you get the latest mice that come in black and red boxes and have the red logo on the mice.


Okay, thanks ! I ordered a FK2 from the BenQ store, I'm curious to test it against my current Sensei raw.


----------



## Diogenes5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I LOVED the G303 clicks, but the shape was impossible for me to get used to, so returned it.
> Tried most mice, except Zowies because of Huanos. But I am trying to decide between EC2-A, ZA13 or 12, or maybe FK2. But some say that FK series are super hard, and ZA little lighter and EC series the lightest of them.
> Also not sure how the bump feels on ZA series.
> 
> Not many options left except zowies for me so time to take the plunge


Don't listen to the people making up facts about the switches being the same as omrons. They are not. Blue's are stiffer and take more actuating force. This is mitigated in larger mice because of the decrease in actuation force caused by greater leverage from longer buttons. However, this also creates an inconsistency as it will be much harder to press the switch in absolute terms the closer you are to the switch and the shorter the lever arm distance.

Zowie have the absolute best shape out there and if you play mainly FPS or don't really care about getting the absolute highest apm for the games that need them (gold-level starcraft II play for example), then you can probably make do. Or you can replace the switches yourself. 7n's don't work well, but d2f-01f's do ... or at least they did 3 years ago. Given that Zowie didn't even bother updating the PCB or firmware in their mouse until there was a distinct mouse latency issue and didn't even bother to test omrons when they released their mice last year; I'd bet the shell and design is still the same.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevinzone*
> 
> whats the click latency when compared to the logitech mice?


It's worse. My G100S beats my FK1 about 10ms, and yes, the FK1 is a newer model that has the improved click latency. And you have to factor in the button travel also, as Zowie mice tend to have a small dead zone before the button press even starts to actuate the switch. The dead zone depends on your Zowie model and how much weight you rest on the buttons. I know the FK series isn't that bad, but the EC series had a ridiculous dead zone. The G303 and the G100S both have a tiny dead zone that is eliminated once you rest your finger on the buttons.

Here is my FK vs G100s:


----------



## VESPA5

Add the additional force required to actuate the switch and it adds to the latency as well. There's much to be said about 'light' switches depending on the game you're playing or if your style involves a lot of rapid spamming of buttons. As for twitch shooters where reaction time is key, those few extra ms could determine whether you're still in the game or you just got killed.


----------



## Vicente Ribeiro

Hi there, i used to play cs 1.6 competitively and my mouse was a microsoft wheel mouse optical. ( 125mm lenght x 66mm width x 40mm height)
After being a long time away from FPS games on PC, i'm coming back and was wondering which one should i get: EC1-a or EC2-a? The microsoft model felt pretty comfortable back then. My hand size is 19cm. Thanks a lot in advance.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vicente Ribeiro*
> 
> Hi there, i used to play cs 1.6 competitively and my mouse was a microsoft wheel mouse optical. ( 125mm lenght x 66mm width x 40mm height)
> After being a long time away from FPS games on PC, i'm coming back and was wondering which one should i get: EC1-a or EC2-a? The microsoft model felt pretty comfortable back then. My hand size is 19cm. Thanks a lot in advance.


I would say the ec2-a.

The ec1-a may or may not feel a chunk bigger. Ec2-a is a smidgen shorter but overall should not feel a whole lot smaller.


----------



## gujukal

Has anyone used both the EC2-a and FK2 and could describe the difference in the clicks, shape and weigth? I use the white logo FK2 atm but I'm thinking of getting the EC2-a. The shape seems better and from what i know the click is lighter and not as loud. I'm a bit worried of the extra weight but maybe it feels lighter because of the bigger size.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gujukal*
> 
> Has anyone used both the EC2-a and FK2 and could describe the difference in the clicks, shape and weigth? I use the white logo FK2 atm but I'm thinking of getting the EC2-a. The shape seems better and from what i know the click is lighter and not as loud. I'm a bit worried of the extra weight but maybe it feels lighter because of the bigger size.


Has the EC2A even been in stock? There is some shady dude on eBay selling them for $150+ which looks like a retailer putting some aside to resell after stores sell out, as the sold history shows he has sold a ton at $100+.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Has the EC2A even been in stock? There is some shady dude on eBay selling them for $150+ which looks like a retailer putting some aside to resell after stores sell out, as the sold history shows he has sold a ton at $100+.


BenQ's eStore has had random flashes of availability on and off. You just gotta visit their page randomly every now and then and sometimes you'll be surprised when they just come up as "available".


----------



## gujukal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Has the EC2A even been in stock? There is some shady dude on eBay selling them for $150+ which looks like a retailer putting some aside to resell after stores sell out, as the sold history shows he has sold a ton at $100+.


It's in stock in Sweden at least, i think its an european company so they're probably harder to come by in NA.


----------



## m4gg0t

I went to a local shop where they received stock of the new Zowie BenQ stuff. I tested the ZA11, ZA12, EC1A, EC2A, FK1, FK2. I narrowed it down to the FK1 and EC2A, but now i feel i should've gotten the FK1 instead of the EC2A....

My LBM feels a lot nicer to click then the RMB as it feel mushier.
Scroll wheel is ok, but not the best, I would say a DA has a better wheel but it's also horrible.
The thumbs buttons are perfect.
I noticed there is a slight rattle inside the mouse somewhere and the sensor lens can be move just a slight bit when i put my finger on it.
Thinking if i should get it replaced or switched out to a FK1,
The blue led on the scroll wheel (as i use 1600) really messes with my red/black color theme.
Overall the mouse is alright, not really impressed with it as I was with the Castor when I first used it. Read all these good things about Zowie.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m4gg0t*
> 
> My LBM feels a lot nicer to click then the RMB as it feel mushier.


I feel the same way with my EC2-A. In fact, my copy sounds 'creaky' when you click the RMB button and sounds like a build quality issue. I had an issue where the RMB switch got sticky (and no, I didn't spill anything on it) and had to take it apart just to clean out the switches. The LMB is quite nice. The RMB seems to be very different than the LMB (as with a lot of mice, go see the Logitech G900 threads as owners of that mice will attack anyone who has an issue with it as offensive) .


----------



## gene-z

Edit: *Don't use tasmart, shady vendor.*

Apparently this place has them in stock -

Anyone use them before?


----------



## m4gg0t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I feel the same way with my EC2-A. In fact, my copy sounds 'creaky' when you click the RMB button and sounds like a build quality issue. I had an issue where the RMB switch got sticky (and no, I didn't spill anything on it) and had to take it apart just to clean out the switches. The LMB is quite nice. The RMB seems to be very different than the LMB (as with a lot of mice, go see the Logitech G900 threads as owners of that mice will attack anyone who has an issue with it as offensive) .


I think i might try and get a RMA of both the ec2a and gtfx.


----------



## atarii

I've bought a new ec2-a and finally it works. I used the old version (white logo) for 1 year straight despite it had one of the worst bug ever: if i swipe too fast, my mouse disconnects from windows for 1.5-2 seconds. No, it wasn't my unit, because i bought a second one from another store and it had the same problem :c Luckly the problem disappeared once i bought a blue g-sr (it happened on every pad i used, except the g-sr or my desk :v). The "new" ec2-a has an updated firmware i think because it feels snappier and the 400 dpi step is identical to my g303 or zowie za12. I dont use mouse3, but i use mwheeldown to jump on cs and i have to say the "new" (actually is an older version lol) scroll is better. That said i have a problem with the lod... on the default setting it's higher than 1cd. g303, za12, ec2 evo, 2x ec2-a dont track on 1 cd. The new ec2-a does move a little bit. The problem is that on my new black g-sr the lod of all my mice is higher so i had to use the mouse4+mouse1 function to lower the lod and yet it keeps moving a little bit with 1 cd. Is it normal?


----------



## Junkrat

Just got an EC1-A and really liking it, I have 21.5 cm hands, so yeah, it works for me. First impressions were all good except the mouse wheel is a bit underwhelming. But after some use I no longer notice it, and it is not loose or anything like that, just... meh


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Junkrat*
> 
> Just got an EC1-A and really liking it, I have 21.5 cm hands, so yeah, it works for me. First impressions were all good except the mouse wheel is a bit underwhelming. But after some use I no longer notice it, and it is not loose or anything like that, just... meh


Then go for it









Btw, why on earth did you take your name from Overwatch







I mean come on


----------



## mint567

So as most of us on this thread are mouse junkies, I bought a ZA11. The ZA11 (benq) doesn't feel delayed like my EC1-A (benq) in games. Though I prefer the EC1-A shape over the ZA11. At this point I think it may be worth sending my EC1-A for RMA. Does anyone know how I can test this or should I just submit an RMA request?


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mint567*
> 
> So as most of us on this thread are mouse junkies, I bought a ZA11. The ZA11 (benq) doesn't feel delayed like my EC1-A (benq) in games. Though I prefer the EC1-A shape over the ZA11. At this point I think it may be worth sending my EC1-A for RMA. Does anyone know how I can test this or should I just submit an RMA request?


It all depends on you. Pick a game that you know demands mouse precision and reaction time that you're fairly competent at and use that as your testing ground. Take Rocket Jump Ninja for instance. His game for testing out mice is Quake Live. Not bump tests, not flow charts or statistics, but actual gameplay. And you'll realize that these numbers of latency, lag, etc. and what not may vary on the person. For instance, the Mionix Castor has been 'tested' to have poor button latency, however, out of my G303, EC2-A, and Castor, I play my best using the Castor (which so happens to have the worst button delay while the G303 has the 'best' sensor and buttons).


----------



## mint567

The main game I play now is CSGO and I fluctuate between SMFC/Global and when playing with EC1-A I can tell that it is delayed compared to ZA11, Rival 300, Deathadder, etc. With all of the other mice that I have tried none have felt delayed like the EC1-A. Part of the reason I bought the ZA11 was to see if it was Zowie's implementation of the sensor/buttons or if it was the EC1-A that was the problem. I'll submit an RMA for it and if the replacement feels the same way then it's the way the EC1-A is (for me).


----------



## solz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mint567*
> 
> The main game I play now is CSGO and I fluctuate between SMFC/Global and when playing with EC1-A I can tell that it is delayed compared to ZA11, Rival 300, Deathadder, etc. With all of the other mice that I have tried none have felt delayed like the EC1-A. Part of the reason I bought the ZA11 was to see if it was Zowie's implementation of the sensor/buttons or if it was the EC1-A that was the problem. I'll submit an RMA for it and if the replacement feels the same way then it's the way the EC1-A is (for me).


I have the same feeling, The EC-1A/2A always felt so off for me but on the other hand the ZA11 feelt pretty good.
The Steelseries Rival have always felt the best for me sensor wise (3310)


----------



## Junkrat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Then go for it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Btw, why on earth did you take your name from Overwatch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I mean come on


Something easy to remember (the pile of old computer "junk" in my closet gives it a double meaning!), honestly will not be here much









Anyway, still liking this mouse, and hardly notice the "weak" feeling wheel now. Overclocked it to 1366Hz using the 2K/4K drivers on this forum, pretty neat.


----------



## koxy

Must say as owner of Zowie ZA12, FK1 and finally EC-2A, this mouse is just perfect for my claw grip, shape is waaaay better than FK1 plus much more comfy and yeah finally is room for my pinky finger. Coating is also way better for sweaty hands, only thing i dont like are side buttons, FK1 have much better side buttons.


----------



## VESPA5

As an owner and having experience with Zowie mice for over a year now, I'd say that the EC lineup is good but not the best. I still lean more towards the G303 and Castor. Everyone has different opinions but the tactile stiff clicks of Zowie mice are comparable to keyboards with Cherry MX Blues vs. Reds vs (insert random color here). You either love the way the clicks are, live with 'em, or hate 'em. The EC2-A makes for a great back up mouse for me for sure.


----------



## Junkrat

It has been interesting reading this forum, the wealth of information is both awesome, but also creates indecisiveness since there are some strong opinions in all directions.

But IMO it really does just come down to testing them out! My big heavy mitts appreciate the stiff mouse buttons, and large ergonomic shape of the EC1-A, and the material is nice for my hands particular type of "tackiness". It had overwhelmingly good reviews, with the notable exception of some people here, but it seems like there are people who do not really like ANY mouse, and are in a constant search for perfection... so yeah.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> As an owner and having experience with Zowie mice for over a year now, I'd say that the EC lineup is good but not the best. I still lean more towards the G303 and Castor. Everyone has different opinions but the tactile stiff clicks of Zowie mice are comparable to keyboards with Cherry MX Blues vs. Reds vs (insert random color here). You either love the way the clicks are, live with 'em, or hate 'em. The EC2-A makes for a great back up mouse for me for sure.


In regards to stiffness you could also compare MX blacks vs MX red. Many fel MX black is horrible to spam because of the force required, same with the mice.


----------



## Zhuni

..........del


----------



## Poodle

Ive been playing recently with KPM, ZA12 and G303. TBH G303 is at another level. KPM and ZA12 just feel laggy compared to G303. And ZA12 feels more laggy than KPM.


----------



## Junkrat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Poodle*
> 
> Ive been playing recently with KPM, ZA12 and G303. TBH G303 is at another level. KPM and ZA12 just feel laggy compared to G303. And ZA12 feels more laggy than KPM.


That's why people need to just test them, I personally found the G303 to be miserable in both its shape and feel (just felt "loose" somehow, too small or me, and badly shaped all around). And the sensor did not feel any more responsive to me, though I do have the Zowie at 1330Hz (which is apparently on par with the G303 in some testing done here).

Have not used the KPM, but I am in the process of returning a Kone XTD Optical, it also ended up losing the battle to the Zowie. I love ROCCAT though (their quality is as good or better than any IMO), and I wanted to like the Kone, but it did not feel as good. I do have a Tyon that I absolutely love for MMOs.


----------



## Zhuni

Got my EC1 after waiting ages. Sadly was disappointed. Right mouse is very light and massive amounts of creaking after actuation. The creaking is so off putting in game. Its like an old pirate ship LOL. Anyway its good my performance is never as good with ergo mice over ambi. So scratched the itch to give it a toot at no cost. On the plus thank FK1 I don't have to deal with Zowie CS anymore. BenQ RMA was done direct through the website with a couple of clicks. Yay


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zhuni*
> 
> Got my EC1 after waiting ages. Sadly was disappointed. Right mouse is very light and massive amounts of creaking after actuation. The creaking is so off putting in game. Its like an old pirate ship LOL. Anyway its good my performance is never as good with ergo mice over ambi. So scratched the itch to give it a toot at no cost. On the plus thank FK1 I don't have to deal with Zowie CS anymore. BenQ RMA was done direct through the website with a couple of clicks. Yay


Unfortunately, all my Zowie mice have that 'creaking' sound. It's a build quality issue and it's the decision of the manufacturers to have an all-in-one design for the mouse buttons and shell. You are bending plastic so the creaking shouldn't be a surprise. However, I've played on a DeathAdder for years and the design is also all-in-one and 'creaking' is not on the list of stuff that gets to me.

It's not even so much as the sound. With my EC2-A, you can 'feel' the creaking. It's enough to distract me while playing.


----------



## Zhuni

Yeah I've not had it on my FK or ZA but on the EC its a joke. And yeah its not the sound its the feel. My god its off putting. Totally messes me up as I ADS, feel the creak, attention breaks, shot whiffed.


----------



## Junkrat

Must be hit or miss, no issues on my EC1-A, and the overall build quality is very solid for me and the clicks are very satisfying. The scroll wheel is the only negative for me, not defective or loose, just a bad choice of a wheel to begin with.


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Junkrat*
> 
> Must be hit or miss, no issues on my EC1-A, and the overall build quality is very solid for me and the clicks are very satisfying. The scroll wheel is the only negative for me, not defective or loose, just a bad choice of a wheel to begin with.


Same experience, white logo EC1-A since the day I bought it.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Junkrat*
> 
> Must be hit or miss, no issues on my EC1-A, and the overall build quality is very solid for me and the clicks are very satisfying. The scroll wheel is the only negative for me, not defective or loose, just a bad choice of a wheel to begin with.


Well hey, you guys are lucky then. I've owned 3 different Zowie mice and I can definitely feel the creaking of the shell each time I click on RMB to aim down sights. The thing about ANY mouse, is just because it's solid for some people, doesn't mean it's solid for everyone.







- hell, that goes for ANYTHING actually.

Still, my EC2-A makes for a great backup mouse.


----------



## v0rtex-SI

Who would have thought but repeating yourself a thousand times will not solve the issues you are having with your mouse


----------



## apmje

Recently just got my EC1-A and I am totally undecided coming from 8+ years of using a DeathAdder. To me the RMB seems to so much harder to click which obviously isn't ideal when playing DOTA. It felt somewhat better in CS but unsure really.

Anyone else had a similar problem and either resolved it or gotten used to it?

Too much postage to return to BenQ in Netherlands.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> Who would have thought but repeating yourself a thousand times will not solve the issues you are having with your mouse


Who would've thought that 200+ posts doesn't equal anywhere near 1000? Math is not your friend









It's not an issue if I still own the mouse and like it................ as my backup mouse


----------



## solz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apmje*
> 
> Recently just got my EC1-A and I am totally undecided coming from 8+ years of using a DeathAdder. To me the RMB seems to so much harder to click which obviously isn't ideal when playing DOTA. It felt somewhat better in CS but unsure really.
> 
> Anyone else had a similar problem and either resolved it or gotten used to it?
> 
> Too much postage to return to BenQ in Netherlands.


Huano Switches


----------



## apmje

Aha. That's unfortunate, unsure how it'll be with Overwatch since some heroes require RMB to be used a fair bit.

Anyone wanna buy a brand new EC1-A?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apmje*
> 
> Aha. That's unfortunate, unsure how it'll be with Overwatch since some heroes require RMB to be used a fair bit.
> 
> Anyone wanna buy a brand new EC1-A?


Used my EC2-A extensively in Overwatch with no issues. My right button is definitely stiffer thanmy left, it just requires some time to get used to it. I came from a Deathadder as well, now I despise the buttons on it, they lack any form of feedback. EC series definitely has better tactile feedback . Only Omron buttons I like are those of the G303.
Anyways, all of that doesn't matter if you have used the DA for 8+ years. It's obviously your mouse of choice, might as well stick to it.


----------



## apmje

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Used my EC2-A extensively in Overwatch with no issues. My right button is definitely stiffer thanmy left, it just requires some time to get used to it. I came from a Deathadder as well, now I despise the buttons on it, they lack any form of feedback. EC series definitely has better tactile feedback . Only Omron buttons I like are those of the G303.
> Anyways, all of that doesn't matter if you have used the DA for 8+ years. It's obviously your mouse of choice, might as well stick to it.


Thanks for the response. I've had 2 DeathAdders in that space of time but was concerned regarding recent standards of DeathAdders due to bad worth of mouth.

It is possible that it may just take some getting used too and eventually be a preference. Since returning is out of the question, worth just sticking with it for a bit. That or try a G402/buy another DeathAdder.


----------



## v0rtex-SI

You might want to try Gigabyte's XM300.. Shape is very similar to DA with better right side (it doesn't flair out on the right side it is also easier to grip because shape / and not \). Its fairly cheap, materials used are good. It uses omrons so they are easier to press compared to huanos. You should however stick with stock firmware because all others seem to have issues with stuck buttons etc. Also LOD is on the medium side. There's also mouse wheel which is very loose on my unit but completely fine on some of the others.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> You might want to try Gigabyte's XM300.. Shape is very similar to DA with better right side (it doesn't flair out on the right side it is also easier to grip because shape / and not \). Its fairly cheap, materials used are good. It uses omrons so they are easier to press compared to huanos. You should however stick with stock firmware because all others seem to have issues with stuck buttons etc. Also LOD is on the medium side. There's also mouse wheel which is very loose on my unit but completely fine on some of the others.


The shell is what makes the Huano in zowie mice feel harder to press compared to an Omron in say a Logitech mouse. BOTH switches are very very easy to press actually.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solz*
> 
> Huano Switches


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *v0rtex-SI*
> 
> You might want to try Gigabyte's XM300.. Shape is very similar to DA with better right side (it doesn't flair out on the right side it is also easier to grip because shape / and not \). Its fairly cheap, materials used are good. It uses omrons so they are easier to press compared to huanos.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> I very roughly "weighed" the amount of grams necessary to actuate the buttons/switches a few mice. It definitely was not precise.
> 
> A thoroughly used white Huano switch took ~50g of weight to actuate the switch by itself. The weight necessary to actuate the switch using the shell varied massively. Obviously, the force requirement is highly dependent on finger placement and the design of the mouse. Via a modified FK shell it ranged from ~53g to something like 4 times that.
> 
> My FK, ZA13, WMO and IMO have somewhat similar actuation force requirements when my finger was placed in a similar area when using those mice. The force necessary to actuate the switches in the G100s with the same finger placement was about half of the mice I just mentioned. So let's say it's like 75g to actuate the FK, ZA13, WMO and IMO, whereas the G100s is 36g.
> 
> If you have a "double clicking" issue when using the G100s that might be because you are not used to extremely light buttons.


http://www.z-saint.com/uploadfile/other/2012072806472924449641.pdf

My FK uses the white Huano switch. My ZA uses the blue Huano switch. My WMO uses the Panasonic switch. My IMO and G100s uses the Chinese Omrons.

The IMO's buttons feel much stiffer than the G100s. Depending where I click, they feel like my FK or ZA, but lack the distinct feedback the blue Huano switch has.


----------



## csgofanatic

Got my EC1-A the other day, and I used a EC2 as a 'test-run'.

I've used the Razer Deathadder, (the blue one, infared sensor 3.5g), a shortlived Steelseries Sensei Raw Blue and the Logitech G502, primarily a CSGO player as my name suggests. I had enough with the 502 since it was giving my hand some pain during deathmatch/games.

The EC1 is perfect for me, since it closely resembles the Deathadder and I have stubby fingers. Gliding on my Steelseries Qck +++ was much better compared to the 502. Sensorwise didn't notice a big difference, though I do miss how the Deathadder's sensor is incredibly responsive. Side buttons are a minor con, but so far so good. Noticed that the mousewheel on the EC1 was more smoother than the EC2... Minor issue I noted is that my EC1 mouse1 and mouse2 are quite bouncy (without clicking them mind you), something that wasn't present with the EC2. Anyone else have the issue?

EDIT: Was going to return EC2, but I think the EC2 is perfect for me more so than the EC1. My ring finger and pinky couldn't get comfortable at all. Now kind of wish there's a EC1.5-A


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Ec2-A is ine of the most used mice on the pro scene currently, great mouse & glad it's getting it's run.


----------



## apmje

Well just to give an update if anyone cares regarding my EC1-A predicament. I have decided to return my EC1-A to BenQ, even with the shipping costs. Played with it further last night and just became frustrated. My main issue was with the stiffer RMB button which seriously impacts movement in RTS/MOBAs. While it worked better in CSGO, it's quite a bulky mouse with the right side causing problems with my fingers and as mentioned before, this is coming from a DeathAdder.

I didn't feel that EC1-A and DeathAdder are a similar shape at all, the DeathAdder just seemed much more streamlined. I do think EC2-A may of been better in regards to the shape but given the hard buttons, not worth the effort. I think if you mainly play FPS, EC1-A will be a nice fit after an adjustment period for anyone coming from Omron switches but if you play anything else, I think you'll struggle.

Thanks for your help guys. Now that I am back on my old DeathAdder, do I look to buy another one or try something like a G402.

Unfortunately the Gigabyte XM300 doesn't look like my cup of tea. Thanks for the suggestion though Vortex-SI


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Ec2-A is ine of the most used mice on the pro scene currently, great mouse & glad it's getting it's run.


Totally agree, the BEST re-interpretation of the classic IE 3.0 shape in every way







.


----------



## solz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Totally agree, the BEST re-interpretation of the classic IE 3.0 shape in every way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I think the CM Storm Alcor/Mizar comes the closest to the IE 3.0 Shape, sucks it has a 3090 sensor


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> The shell is what makes the Huano in zowie mice feel harder to press compared to an Omron in say a Logitech mouse. BOTH switches are very very easy to press actually.


^^This. Not that I suggest you do it, but if you ever had the experience of carefully taking apart your Zowie mouse, you will noticed how it barely takes any pressure at all to actuate the Huano switch. It's the all-in-one buttons in unity with the whole shell design that is the culprit for 'stiff' clicks.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apmje*
> 
> Well just to give an update if anyone cares regarding my EC1-A predicament. I have decided to return my EC1-A to BenQ, even with the shipping costs. Played with it further last night and just became frustrated. My main issue was with the stiffer RMB button which seriously impacts movement in RTS/MOBAs. While it worked better in CSGO, it's quite a bulky mouse with the right side causing problems with my fingers and as mentioned before, this is coming from a DeathAdder.
> 
> I didn't feel that EC1-A and DeathAdder are a similar shape at all, the DeathAdder just seemed much more streamlined. I do think EC2-A may of been better in regards to the shape but given the hard buttons, not worth the effort. I think if you mainly play FPS, EC1-A will be a nice fit after an adjustment period for anyone coming from Omron switches but if you play anything else, I think you'll struggle.
> 
> Thanks for your help guys. Now that I am back on my old DeathAdder, do I look to buy another one or try something like a G402.
> 
> Unfortunately the Gigabyte XM300 doesn't look like my cup of tea. Thanks for the suggestion though Vortex-SI


By the looks of it all, I would say keep an eye out for other mice. However it seems you need to accept that the DA just may be your 'cup of tea'. The DA is still one of the very best mice around, especially if you have one with no QC issues. Very hard to beat, so stick with what you know. Hasn't let you down just yet.


----------



## apmje

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> By the looks of it all, I would say keep an eye out for other mice. However it seems you need to accept that the DA just may be your 'cup of tea'. The DA is still one of the very best mice around, especially if you have one with no QC issues. Very hard to beat, so stick with what you know. Hasn't let you down just yet.


It appears so. Never had any probems with my DeathAdders years after use. Only reason I've ever replaced them is through game rage.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apmje*
> 
> It appears so. Never had any probems with my DeathAdders years after use. Only reason I've ever replaced them is through game rage.


Then you have your answer, sometimes we want new shiny stuff to use when the Best is right in front of us. No issues with the DA, so no need to truly replace what's been stable. Keep mowing people down with it.

I'm sure Raz3r has plans this year for a new DA in the works, probably around Christmas time, they won't let the sensor hype pass them by.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *apmje*
> 
> It appears so. Never had any probems with my DeathAdders years after use. Only reason I've ever replaced them is through game rage.


Lol. One of the few times I've actually taken out my rage on a gaming mouse was with my DeathAdder Chroma. It takes quite a beating. My G303 on the other hand, is another story (the sensor rattle gets worse with time!). The DA is a mouse I'd love to hate but I can't really complain because I play pretty well with it. Until the Castor came along, the DA was my go to mouse.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Lol. One of the few times I've actually taken out my rage on a gaming mouse was with my DeathAdder Chroma. It takes quite a beating. My G303 on the other hand, is another story (the sensor rattle gets worse with time!). The DA is a mouse I'd love to hate but I can't really complain because I play pretty well with it. Until the Castor came along, the DA was my go to mouse.


Got my replacement plan for my G303 at best buy for $10, as soon as I hear a rattle I'm marching in there like a King demanding my new one.


----------



## mixolyd

Anyone know where to get EC2 in the US? My G400 is dying and I need a replacement. I ordered a Gigabyte XM300 in the meantime but will return it within a month if I can get an EC2. Amazon has EC2 shipping time at 1-4 months...


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Totally agree, the BEST re-interpretation of the classic IE 3.0 shape in every way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solz*
> 
> I think the CM Storm Alcor/Mizar comes the closest to the IE 3.0 Shape, sucks it has a 3090 sensor


Actually the EC*1* shape is the closest you can get to a IE3.0 replica.
EC*2* is WAY WAY smaller and Alcor Mizar is somewhere inbetween but still way smaller because of the width.

I cannot even palm the EC2 correctly with 19,5cm hand, and my tendency to claw grip results in hurting
my ring finger because it applies the pressure mostly to the front right lip of the EC2 shape.


----------



## Axaion

Actually, the Alcor is the closest SHAPE you can get to the IME 3.0

its SIZE however is too small, but the SHAPE is good.

EC series are closer to a DA than IME 3.0


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Actually, the Alcor is the closest SHAPE you can get to the IME 3.0
> 
> its SIZE however is too small, but the SHAPE is good.
> 
> EC series are closer to a DA than IME 3.0


The DA is vastly different than the EC.

Based off pictures, the EC is close to the IntelliMouse Explorer 3.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The DA is vastly different than the EC.
> 
> Based off pictures, the EC is close to the IntelliMouse Explorer 3.


Ive held all 4 too, and the alcor is the only one thats close enough in the actual shape, its too small however

Based off pictures the EC's would look close, but theyre closer to a DA than an IME 3.0 imo.

It feels like the DA and EC has no curve, and the right side is \ shaped instead of very slightly inward, I would have bought alcors in huge amounts of they didnt make it so small and such bad Quality Control..


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Ive held all 4 too, and the alcor is the only one thats close enough in the actual shape, its too small however
> 
> Based off pictures the EC's would look close, but theyre closer to a DA than an IME 3.0 imo.
> 
> It feels like the DA and EC has no curve, and the right side is \ shaped instead of very slightly inward, I would have bought alcors in huge amounts of they didnt make it so small and such bad Quality Control..


The Rival is close as well, all be it too thin in the middle most say compared to the 3.0. I would like to try the Alcor as well, it does look like a great shape, & it does at the same time look too thin.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> The Rival is close as well, all be it too thin in the middle most say compared to the 3.0. I would like to try the Alcor as well, it does look like a great shape, & it does at the same time look too thin.


The rival is so far away from ime 3.0 shape it might aswell be a R.A.T mouse

It actually feels smaller than an alcor in your hand because somehow, steelseries collaborated with lolgitech on alien designs and managed to mess it up real good..

Also, the alcor is the only one of the mice except the ime 3.0 to have actual cut-outs for its left and right mouse buttons

ss and zowie btfo


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> The rival is so far away from ime 3.0 shape it might aswell be a R.A.T mouse
> 
> It actually feels smaller than an alcor in your hand because somehow, steelseries collaborated with lolgitech on alien designs and managed to mess it up real good..
> 
> Also, the alcor is the only one of the mice except the ime 3.0 to have actual cut-outs for its left and right mouse buttons
> 
> ss and zowie btfo


Stop tempting me to try the Alcor.


----------



## Maximillion

I might get drawn-and-quartered for this, but the Tek Syndicate mouse feels more like the 3.0 than a lot of more popular mice in the category. I'm speaking as far as raw dimensions and the way in which it fills the hand. Yes it's a different shape but similar experience overall.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Stop tempting me to try the Alcor.


Get the *ALCOR*







.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Get the *ALCOR*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Maybe after the Rival 700. Lol


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Stop tempting me to try the Alcor.


Dont get it unless you like a tiny mouse with a good shape

but with possibly the worst scroll wheel ive ever tried, some massive QC issues on that one.


----------



## Atikin

So my mx518 is finally starting to die on me and I'm looking at the ec2-a as my next purchase. Only issue is that it's literally out of stock everywhere, with amazon showing 1-4 months till it ships. Is there something I'm missing or has Zowie still not started making them after that recall in January?


----------



## Klopfer

FK1+ will be available middle of June .... maybe thats the same "date" when EC Series will be back in stock ...
( FK1+ Release Date was told me by Zowie via FB )
€dit:
btw
in benq EU Shop EC series is in Stock ....
http://shop.benq.eu/store/benqeu/en_GB/list/ThemeID.19795600/categoryID.70871300


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atikin*
> 
> So my mx518 is finally starting to die on me and I'm looking at the ec2-a as my next purchase. Only issue is that it's literally out of stock everywhere, with amazon showing 1-4 months till it ships. Is there something I'm missing or has Zowie still not started making them after that recall in January?


Keeps selling out pretty quickly. Should be back in stock in a couple weeks to a month.


----------



## gujukal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atikin*
> 
> So my mx518 is finally starting to die on me and I'm looking at the ec2-a as my next purchase. Only issue is that it's literally out of stock everywhere, with amazon showing 1-4 months till it ships. Is there something I'm missing or has Zowie still not started making them after that recall in January?


Their are a lot of them in EU,u could probably order from an EU-site. Will probably be expensive though with around 20% sales tax here compared to USA.


----------



## Atikin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Klopfer*
> 
> FK1+ will be available middle of June .... maybe thats the same "date" when EC Series will be back in stock ...
> ( FK1+ Release Date was told me by Zowie via FB )
> €dit:
> btw
> in benq EU Shop EC series is in Stock ....
> http://shop.benq.eu/store/benqeu/en_GB/list/ThemeID.19795600/categoryID.70871300


Thanks for the link, doesn't seem like they'll ship to the states though and the .com benq site is out of stock.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Keeps selling out pretty quickly. Should be back in stock in a couple weeks to a month.


Really hoping I can find it in the next couple of days as I'm going to go insane using a faulty mouse for a couple weeks or months.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gujukal*
> 
> Their are a lot of them in EU,u could probably order from an EU-site. Will probably be expensive though with around 20% sales tax here compared to USA.


Did you have a particular site in mind? I'm fine overpaying a bit but I also don't want to spend $100 on a mouse that retails for $60.


----------



## gujukal

Amazon.co.uk has the white logo version: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zowie-EC2--Mouse-Mac-2-ways/dp/B00SCGF03G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1464163103&sr=8-3&keywords=ec2-a
With shipping it will probably land at 90 dollar or something.


----------



## Atikin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gujukal*
> 
> Amazon.co.uk has the white logo version: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Zowie-EC2--Mouse-Mac-2-ways/dp/B00SCGF03G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1464163103&sr=8-3&keywords=ec2-a
> With shipping it will probably land at 90 dollar or something.


I can get it by June 15-20th for $92... this shortage is ridiculous.


----------



## solz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atikin*
> 
> Thanks for the link, doesn't seem like they'll ship to the states though and the .com benq site is out of stock.
> Really hoping I can find it in the next couple of days as I'm going to go insane using a faulty mouse for a couple weeks or months.
> Did you have a particular site in mind? I'm fine overpaying a bit but I also don't want to spend $100 on a mouse that retails for $60.


http://www.canadacomputers.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=zowie&x=0&y=0


----------



## Atikin

Mouse went in stock today by a third party seller on amazon, got it for $74 shipped!

http://www.amazon.com/Zowie-Gear-Ergonomic-Optical-Gaming/dp/B00S9SH7V0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00


----------



## gujukal

Just received this mouse and I'm very happy with the shape. Coming from ambidextrous mice like Kinzu, Rival 100, Sensei this is so much nicer to grip since i can have my pinky finger on it, which i couldn't have on those mice. It's also smaller than i thought and my hands are only 18 cm long, 9 cm width on the palm. Only downside is scroll wheel and sidebuttons, they feel cheap as f**k for a premium priced mouse.


----------



## altf4

I just got this mouse today too, and damn the clicks is so much BETTER than the older fk1 i've had, the shape is 10/10, no mushy mouse clicks also, never switching to g303 ever again.







( and yes the scroll wheel and side buttons is pretty bad, my scroll wheel sounds like it's about to break )


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gujukal*
> 
> Only downside is scroll wheel and sidebuttons, they feel cheap as f**k for a premium priced mouse.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> and yes the scroll wheel and side buttons is pretty bad, my scroll wheel sounds like it's about to break )


Couldn't be said better. I see they still didn't fix a thing since early EC molds :/


----------



## gujukal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackCY*
> 
> Couldn't be said better. I see they still didn't fix a thing since early EC molds :/


Shape and clicks are more important for me. They should use similar scroll wheel thats on the fk, that one felt great for me.


----------



## mixolyd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> I just got this mouse today too, and damn the clicks is so much BETTER than the older fk1 i've had, the shape is 10/10, no mushy mouse clicks also, never switching to g303 ever again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ( and yes the scroll wheel and side buttons is pretty bad, my scroll wheel sounds like it's about to break )


Is this the new Benq one? I thought scroll wheel was better? Looking at replacing Mionix Castor which is perfect mouse for me except for scroll wheel. I guess I'll have to look elsewhere :/


----------



## detto87

Dont touch Zowie if you are looking for good mouse wheel. That's getting more and more a common thing to say, not only here on OCN.


----------



## Bucake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Dont touch Zowie


damn straight

jk of course


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Dont touch Zowie if you are looking for good mouse wheel. That's getting more and more a common thing to say, not only here on OCN.


The design is very susceptible to variance because it uses 2 springs for the feedback. The bearing and rounded humps dull the feeling of each scroll and could cause issues when using heavy springs. With light springs the wheel makes a clunking sound.

The Microsoft and Logitech designs are better when tuned properly. The Microsoft design could use a little tweaking.


----------



## Nivity

Got a EC2-A and had to return it.
I don't game 24/7 but use my computer for other things as well.
The scroll wheel and the side buttons are just to damn horrible, its among the worst I ever used in any mice, ever.

I use the front,back side buttons thousands of times every day with work/other things. And just those alone got me furious from how bad they feel.

How is it that they never managed to fix that in all these years, same with scroll.
Coming from a mouse with flawless scroll and very very good sidebuttons it was just a nightmare.

Buttons was ok though, not that hard as i Imagined compared to my favorite omron mice. But still useless mouse for me.
Bye zowie, until you fix your sidebuttons and scroll I will never buy another Zowie mice


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Got a EC2-A and had to return it.
> I don't game 24/7 but use my computer for other things as well.
> The scroll wheel and the side buttons are just to damn horrible, its among the worst I ever used in any mice, ever.
> 
> I use the front,back side buttons thousands of times every day with work/other things. And just those alone got me furious from how bad they feel.
> 
> How is it that they never managed to fix that in all these years, same with scroll.
> Coming from a mouse with flawless scroll and very very good sidebuttons it was just a nightmare.
> 
> Buttons was ok though, not that hard as i Imagined compared to my favorite omron mice. But still useless mouse for me.
> Bye zowie, until you fix your sidebuttons and scroll I will never buy another Zowie mice


The way this mouse clicks isn't for everybody. You're either gonna love it or hate it. And having taken apart my EC2-A a couple of times, I can honestly tell you that Huano switches take very little pressure to actuate. The way Zowie implements their mice's shells are the culprit for the reputation for having stiff clicks. As for the side buttons on the EC2-A, yeah, they're probably some of the worst I've ever used. So bad that you almost feel like you're going to break the mouse pressing them. Thanks to the EC2-A, it actually got me using my Castor and DeathAdder again (sounds crazy, it's usually the other way around).


----------



## solz

I sold my EC1-A from the first batch after the return because of the clicks, now the second batch is out (europe) i decided to give it another try and now the click are just fine they are still not as stiff as the FK series obv but they are way better then the first batch after the return of the omron switches.

I orderd mine directly off benq: http://shop.benq.eu/store/benqeu/nl_NL/list/ThemeID.19795600/parentCategoryID.70871300/categoryID.70871400


----------



## gujukal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Got a EC2-A and had to return it.
> I don't game 24/7 but use my computer for other things as well.
> The scroll wheel and the side buttons are just to damn horrible, its among the worst I ever used in any mice, ever.
> 
> I use the front,back side buttons thousands of times every day with work/other things. And just those alone got me furious from how bad they feel.
> 
> How is it that they never managed to fix that in all these years, same with scroll.
> Coming from a mouse with flawless scroll and very very good sidebuttons it was just a nightmare.
> 
> Buttons was ok though, not that hard as i Imagined compared to my favorite omron mice. But still useless mouse for me.
> Bye zowie, until you fix your sidebuttons and scroll I will never buy another Zowie mice


The side buttons are decent, they are justa bit soft but works well and are good size. Personally i wouldn't neglect a mouse because of the side buttons. Scroll wheel is meeh, their are worse but it's not good.


----------



## Watsyurdeal

Just got my EC2-A, and the damn thing is defective. Freaking a

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwrVdDZf35U&feature=youtu.be


----------



## Bucake

i'd say that qualifies as defect


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Watsyurdeal*
> 
> Just got my EC2-A, and the damn thing is defective. Freaking a
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwrVdDZf35U&feature=youtu.be


The world of 3310.... Doesn't help that BenQ is running things now.

Did you try the calibration settings?


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Watsyurdeal*
> 
> Just got my EC2-A, and the damn thing is defective. Freaking a
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwrVdDZf35U&feature=youtu.be


hm, dancing cursor...I've seen this somewhere before


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Watsyurdeal*
> 
> Just got my EC2-A, and the damn thing is defective. Freaking a
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwrVdDZf35U&feature=youtu.be


Where did you order from? I know Rexflo just straight up mails the mouse in a large paper envelope. I got an FK1 in with a smashed box from them and won't order from them again. If you got it from them, can be it got banged up during shipment.


----------



## Wovermars1996

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> Where did you order from? I know Rexflo just straight up mails the mouse in a paper envelope. I got an FK1 in with a smashed box from them and won't order from them again. If you got it from them, can be it got banged up during shipment.


I got my EC1-A from Rexflo and the first one I received was broken. The replacement I got was in better condition but still broken. Wasn't bothered sending it back a second time.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Sad to hear these issues with Rexflo, I have never had a single issue with them when having my stuff mailed to me. Now that I pick it up in person after ordering cuts down the possibility of a broken mouse or smashed box from shipping now.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> hm, dancing cursor...I've seen this somewhere before


Was it trying some Michael Jackson moves across your mouse pad?







.


----------



## Watsyurdeal

Well I may get one from Benq direct later, but feeling the shape itself, it's not that much smaller than the ec1-a. I think it's gonna help me in Counter Strike and my flicks, but that's about it.

Right now the Dare U S100 is my favorite mouse


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Watsyurdeal*
> 
> Well I may get one from Benq direct later, but feeling the shape itself, it's not that much smaller than the ec1-a. I think it's gonna help me in Counter Strike and my flicks, but that's about it.
> 
> Right now the Dare U S100 is my favorite mouse


If you like to spam buttons, if you haven't noticed already, the clicks are a lot stiffer on Zowie mice than usual. Some blame the Huano switches but it's actually their shells. It'll help you from accidentally firing off a round, but if you like firing a lot of short controlled bursts, it'll take a lot more pressure than usual to do so. I've had rotten luck with Zowie mice. In fact, my 2nd EC2-A crapped out despite cleaning out the gunk that held the switches in place. I hope the QC improves with Zowie mice.


----------



## Watsyurdeal

Yea, I actually had a Zowie EC1-A that was pretty good, but my friend said it skipped on him a lot, so I wonder if maybe there was a rare problem with it.

The stiffer clicks I actually liked a lot and didn't mind, for me the thing was the coating of the mouse, the scroll wheel, and the lack of changing the leds to match my setup.

Really I love the Ducky Secret, but hate the shape and how it juts out on the edges.

Right now on my list are the Jizz J1, Dreammachines DM1 Pro, and CM Storm Alcor.

Alcor probably is the first, since it's the most similar and seriously light.

My problem with Zowie mice atm, is that for everything that they have, they seem overpriced. They should be at least 10 bucks cheaper, the build quality, materials, and overall package is not nearly enough to warrant 60 bucks, 50 at most.


----------



## VESPA5

^^I completely agree. Of all the mice I've owned (yes, I'm crazy like that, I have several mice), Zowie mice have given me the most problems. You would think my Razer DA:Chroma or any of my Logitech mice would have issues, nope, Zowie (pre and post BenQ) new lineup of EC2-As have given me a headache where I don't even want to use it any more.

I briefly owned the DM1 Pro and it's basically a SteelSeries Sensei with a 3310. I gave it away to a friend because I'm not a fan of a mouse that doesn't have any subtle comfort grooves. The LMB/RMB are sloped which can passively force your fingers apart. For now, as much as I want to hate on my DA:Chroma, it's the best mouse I've used that has lasted me over a year now.


----------



## Bucake

several mice? dude, you need to get yourself some help asap


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> several mice? dude, you need to get yourself some help asap


And 3 PC rigs (and 2 cars). Yes, I'm addicted to building rigs for every room of my house (lol). I have several mice that I end up selling or giving away. My daily driver has been my trusty DA:Chroma.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> ^^I completely agree. Of all the mice I've owned (yes, I'm crazy like that, I have several mice), Zowie mice have given me the most problems. You would think my Razer DA:Chroma or any of my Logitech mice would have issues, nope, Zowie (pre and post BenQ) new lineup of EC2-As have given me a headache where I don't even want to use it any more.
> 
> I briefly owned the DM1 Pro and it's basically a SteelSeries Sensei with a 3310. I gave it away to a friend because I'm not a fan of a mouse that doesn't have any subtle comfort grooves. The LMB/RMB are sloped which can passively force your fingers apart. For now, as much as I want to hate on my DA:Chroma, it's the best mouse I've used that has lasted me over a year now.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> several mice? dude, you need to get yourself some help asap


If he needs help I need something further, I have went through 20+ in the last year easily....Maybe even more, I have tried mice. Then tried them again, picked up new releases, then dumped em & tried em again. It's like a roundabout that keeps going. lol


----------



## csgofanatic

I've been lucky - No defects so far on my end. Canadian here so I ordered from NCIX (took about 2-3 weeks) and it came in a small plastic bag. No signs of any problems.

Think my EC1 was defective though - when I rested my fingertips on the mouse1 and mouse2 buttons, they felt very spongy. Made me constantly think I was pressing mouse1 and mouse2 inadavterly. The EC2 does have this issue as well, but not as bothersome.

In hindsight, wish I went with the Deathadder Chroma but can't complain about the EC2. Major upgrade from the G502.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> several mice? dude, you need to get yourself some help asap


Look who's talking here, the KING of Bukake and he is giving others a recommendation on getting help. Go figure







.


----------



## kackbratze

can anybody confirm if these mouse feet from takasta fit on the ec2-a?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Hotline-Games-Zowie-EC1-EC-eVo-EC2-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition-/111427911417?var=&hash=item19f19efef9:m:m43PUhmFC7wk-o0Eux6hV0w

if yes, should I take the performance or competition ones?

Thanks in advance!


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kackbratze*
> 
> can anybody confirm if these mouse feet from takasta fit on the ec2-a?
> 
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/Hotline-Games-Zowie-EC1-EC-eVo-EC2-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition-/111427911417?var=&hash=item19f19efef9:m:m43PUhmFC7wk-o0Eux6hV0w
> 
> if yes, should I take the performance or competition ones?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


It depends on what kind of slip you're looking for. I never had a problem with the stock feet on the EC2-A. I have yet to have them wear down to the point where I'd need to use the spare ones provided. Are you looking for speed, control or both? Usually you can fix that by using the mouse mat that caters to your liking. You like more control? Go for the Performance. Want speed and you flick your mouse a lot? Go for the competition. Can't go wrong with either!


----------



## Wovermars1996

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kackbratze*
> 
> can anybody confirm if these mouse feet from takasta fit on the ec2-a?
> 
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/Hotline-Games-Zowie-EC1-EC-eVo-EC2-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition-/111427911417?var=&hash=item19f19efef9:m:m43PUhmFC7wk-o0Eux6hV0w
> 
> if yes, should I take the performance or competition ones?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


I can confirm they fit.
Also buy 0.6 for a direct replacement
Competition for cloth mousepad and Performance for hard mousemats


----------



## killuchen

I gave my zowie benq ec2-a about a month. I'm not feeling it so I'm going back to my g303







probably going to put this ec2-a on ebay makes me sad to let it go.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> I gave my zowie benq ec2-a about a month. I'm not feeling it so I'm going back to my g303
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> probably going to put this ec2-a on ebay makes me sad to let it go.


The mouse you are returning to is amazing anyway. No sad tears sir no sad tears.


----------



## killuchen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> The mouse you are returning to is amazing anyway. No sad tears sir no sad tears.


Haha, going back to the g303 made me realize how much I missed it's lmb/rmb clicks. It feels so much more responsive.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> Haha, going back to the g303 made me realize how much I missed it's lmb/rmb clicks. It feels so much more responsive.


Exactly what a lot of people love about the dark side. We have clicks for days, clicks & sensor keep around the ones who hate the shape the most.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> Haha, going back to the g303 made me realize how much I missed it's lmb/rmb clicks. It feels so much more responsive.


Of all the mice I own, I'd say the G303 has the BEST Left and Right mouse buttons I've ever used. Most of the popular button latency tests use the G303 as a measuring point. <--- again, this is highly subjective and it's just from my own experience which may definitely differ than others.


----------



## killuchen

Yea, I put my ec2-a up on ebay hoping someone will buy it. Since it's sold out at every store.


----------



## VESPA5

If anyone is still interested, BenQ just released a batch of EC2-As and EC1-As on their eStore (as of now). They go really fast so nab one if you want one.


----------



## blazarcher

Anyone know which mouse I should go with that is has very similar dimensions to the WMO? For some reason my mouse doesn't overclock to 500hz anymore and it's quite laggy playing at 125hz. I can still land my flick shots but it's a lot harder than it used to be.

I'm looking to getting the EC2-A but I'm afraid it's too big compared to the WMO. Anyone have any suggestions? I'm a low sensitivity player, stick to 400DPI.


----------



## Bucake

personally i'd just look into why it won't get polled at 500hz anymore.. there's probably a simple explanation, and an easy fix as well.
flicking is (even more) terrible at 125hz because you'll be stuck with ~1m/s pcs in stead of ~1.5m/s pcs.


----------



## blazarcher

Ya dude the only thing I can think of is the Intel USB 3.0 extensible driver controller for Windows 7. I can't find a way to uninstall that and go with whatever the USB controller was before. I tried down clocking the mouse and it down clocked to 62hz easy but anything above 125hz doesn't work. If I don't get this fixed somehow I might just buy myself a FK2 :/


----------



## rugi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Of all the mice I own, I'd say the G303 has the BEST Left and Right mouse buttons I've ever used. Most of the popular button latency tests use the G303 as a measuring point. <--- again, this is highly subjective and it's just from my own experience which may definitely differ than others.


I've been using the 303 for about 2-3 days now, coming from EC1-A and I've been misclicking like crazy because I forgot how much less pressure it needs to actuate the switch. Getting used to it now though. I think that although my hand is big (22cm) I prefer being able to claw a small mouse rather than palming a large one, so it seems like a better fit. If I were to use a Zowie I would probably have to move over to an FK2/ZA12 instead of an ergo.


----------



## buddynho

any place that i can order that mouse in europe?


----------



## hiroat

Got my ec2-a, but i noticed heat on the bottom around the sensor, is this normal?


----------



## PjMpire

how does the ec2a feel in comparison to the fk2?? i find the fk2 to be a bit long and very narrow.

The dimensions for width dont seem to different between them so was wondering how they compare?

I notice the right side of the ec2a is slanted, does this affect the grip/lifting of the mouse?


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PjMpire*
> 
> how does the ec2a feel in comparison to the fk2?? i find the fk2 to be a bit long and very narrow.
> 
> The dimensions for width dont seem to different between them so was wondering how they compare?
> 
> I notice the right side of the ec2a is slanted, does this affect the grip/lifting of the mouse?


I hated the FK because it was long and narrow, felt like a stick with no shape with the butt uncomfortably standing in the way of my palm. I just couldn't hold that thing with my grip.

Both the EC2 and ZA series feels much more different and have an actual mouse form to hold.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aymanb*
> 
> I hated the FK because it was long and narrow, felt like a stick with no shape with the butt uncomfortably standing in the way of my palm. I just couldn't hold that thing with my grip.
> 
> Both the EC2 and ZA series feels much more different and have an actual mouse form to hold.


Zowie did just release the FK1+ here: http://zowie.benq.com/mice/fk1+ but I too personally thought the 'new' FKs still had stiffer clicks and too narrow.

My only gripe with my EC1-A is that if my hands aren't sweaty enough, I kinda have to get them sorta wet (like a pitcher licks his fingers before gripping a baseball) just to get a nice firm grip. Aside from that, it's a really comfy and great mouse.


----------



## sixxxxxx

Can anyone comment on whether the EC1-A/EC2-A has troubles tracking on multi-colored mouse pads? I recall trying an EC2 eVo a while back and having to return it because it would malfunction on multi-colored pads.


----------



## xdmcdantex

Man why is the ec2-a constantly out of stock on amazon. There is no way i am paying $90+ shipping for the thing. I'm honestly considering getting the g303 again till it comes back in stock, this is ridiculous.


----------



## altf4

Anyone know why my EC2-A still on, after i shut down my computer? Kinda odd.


----------



## kackbratze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Anyone know why my EC2-A still on, after i shut down my computer? Kinda odd.


it's an option in your BIOS, something called usb charging if i recall correctly


----------



## altf4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kackbratze*
> 
> it's an option in your BIOS, something called usb charging if i recall correctly


Not even a option in my bios, so no.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sixxxxxx*
> 
> Can anyone comment on whether the EC1-A/EC2-A has troubles tracking on multi-colored mouse pads? I recall trying an EC2 eVo a while back and having to return it because it would malfunction on multi-colored pads.


No issues with tracking, i am currently using an all white pad & my Black/white Zowie ran just fine on it so you should be ok. Don't hold me to that though. Lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xdmcdantex*
> 
> Man why is the ec2-a constantly out of stock on amazon. There is no way i am paying $90+ shipping for the thing. I'm honestly considering getting the g303 again till it comes back in stock, this is ridiculous.


DON'T consider. Just snatch it up. I got it for $46 with a 2 year plan at best buy. I am dumb though & still may not keep it, but i run through people with the mouse.


----------



## xdmcdantex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> No issues with tracking, i am currently using an all white pad & my Black/white Zowie ran just fine on it so you should be ok. Don't hold me to that though. Lol
> DON'T consider. Just snatch it up. I got it for $46 with a 2 year plan at best buy. I am dumb though & still may not keep it, but i run through people with the mouse.


ITS YOU AGAIN STOP TELLING ME TO GO BACK TO THE DARKSIDE (i ordered it yesterday) buuut its getting returned as soon as i can get ec2-a


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *altf4*
> 
> Not even a option in my bios, so no.


Which motherboard do you have?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xdmcdantex*
> 
> ITS YOU AGAIN STOP TELLING ME TO GO BACK TO THE DARKSIDE (i ordered it yesterday) buuut its getting returned as soon as i can get ec2-a


It's your mouse, stop fighting it.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xdmcdantex*
> 
> Man why is the ec2-a constantly out of stock on amazon. There is no way i am paying $90+ shipping for the thing. I'm honestly considering getting the g303 again till it comes back in stock, this is ridiculous.


For some magical reason BenQ is only making a few dozen at a time. It will only become available in certain places (BenQ store, Rexflo) and will usually go because they are only selling some 40 or so at a time.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> For some magical reason BenQ is only making a few dozen at a time. It will only become available in certain places (BenQ store, Rexflo) and will usually go because they are only selling some 40 or so at a time.


The only thing i really can think of, is that they could be working on changes & developing the Zowie/Q 3360 line up. So why they are doin' that they toss a small batch of the 3310's out to keep a few in cycle & some customers happy & interested.

Seriously this is the only thing that makes sense to me, because if it's not that? Then they are half assing production worse than an OJ simpson getaway, which makes them look worse.

The Ec series was available in the Us on rexflo on the 6th of June, sold out on the 9th. So it's clearly super small batches. Bad for business if that is the case.


----------



## killuchen

My house gave me hand pains surprisingly







the bottom left corner was giving me pains between my thumb/pointer finger near my palm. So I went back to my G303 and sold my EC2-A benq on ebay. I think I have some weird hands lol.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> The only thing i really can think of, is that they could be working on changes & developing the Zowie/Q 3360 line up. So why they are doin' that they toss a small batch of the 3310's out to keep a few in cycle & some customers happy & interested.
> 
> Seriously this is the only thing that makes sense to me, because if it's not that? Then they are half assing production worse than an OJ simpson getaway, which makes them look worse.
> 
> The Ec series was available in the Us on rexflo on the 6th of June, sold out on the 9th. So it's clearly super small batches. Bad for business if that is the case.


I'm putting it down as manufactured exclusivity. I don't enjoy the idea of that, but I feel it's more believable considering BenQ doesn't seem to have a lacking distribution chain and they aren't one for any substantial hardware or design changes.

Case in point they dropped a tweaked FK and I'm pretty sure they're going to limit that as well despite the obviousness in not doing so for a new product.


----------



## VESPA5

I don't know what it is, maybe I just had a batch of really bad EC2-As, but when I finally settled in with the EC1-A, I personally noticed that this had the 'lightest' clicks of all the Zowie mice I've owned. I have medium/small hands and the EC1-A fit my hand just fine and it was actually very comfortable. Maybe it's because I've been gaming on a DeathAdder for so many years that I had an immediate liking to the EC1-A, but every EC2-A I've owned had some weird stiff right click or all of a sudden, both M1 and M2 buttons got mushy. The only drawback of the EC series in my experience are the cheap mushy about to break side buttons and sometimes you either need to get your fingers moist or have enough perspiration in your hands to get a good grip on these things. If you have the type of hand that NEVER gets sweaty, this is probably going to be the most slippery mouse you'll ever have.

As for BenQ, I got an MBA and I know this from my old grad school days - in operations management there are 2 things that are a financial no no: 1) Over-supply 2) Shortage (or lack of supply to meet the demand). Either BenQ is financially in the hole to keep the manufacturing costs going to meet the demand or their CEO is an idiot


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> My house gave me hand pains surprisingly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the bottom left corner was giving me pains between my thumb/pointer finger near my palm. So I went back to my G303 and sold my EC2-A benq on ebay. I think I have some weird hands lol.


You are not the only one who had that issue, I played a hefty amound with my 2-a & the bottom left of my hand where the padding is between my thumb and index felt not cramped, but more fatigued. Seemed to be from the bottom left corner of the mouse that snugs your palm when holding.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> I'm putting it down as manufactured exclusivity. I don't enjoy the idea of that, but I feel it's more believable considering BenQ doesn't seem to have a lacking distribution chain and they aren't one for any substantial hardware or design changes.
> 
> Case in point they dropped a tweaked FK and I'm pretty sure they're going to limit that as well despite the obviousness in not doing so for a new product.


Weirdos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I don't know what it is, maybe I just had a batch of really bad EC2-As, but when I finally settled in with the EC1-A, I personally noticed that this had the 'lightest' clicks of all the Zowie mice I've owned. I have medium/small hands and the EC1-A fit my hand just fine and it was actually very comfortable. Maybe it's because I've been gaming on a DeathAdder for so many years that I had an immediate liking to the EC1-A, but every EC2-A I've owned had some weird stiff right click or all of a sudden, both M1 and M2 buttons got mushy. The only drawback of the EC series in my experience are the cheap mushy about to break side buttons and sometimes you either need to get your fingers moist or have enough perspiration in your hands to get a good grip on these things. If you have the type of hand that NEVER gets sweaty, this is probably going to be the most slippery mouse you'll ever have.
> 
> As for BenQ, I got an MBA and I know this from my old grad school days - in operations management there are 2 things that are a financial no no: 1) Over-supply 2) Shortage (or lack of supply to meet the demand). Either BenQ is financially in the hole to keep the manufacturing costs going to meet the demand or their CEO is an idiot


So you went to the Ec1-a now huh.

Never wanna say someone is an idiot but what else do we have for an answer? lol These short batches are a bit ridiculous now.


----------



## VESPA5

@PhiZaRoaH - Ha ha. Yeah, I went with the EC1-A. I keep trying out all these new mice and they're all generally good (I wish the G303 didn't have such an issue with its sensor rattle) but the size and shape of the EC1-A is the sweet spot for me, comfy, precise, and I seem to play well with it. It certainly has put my Castor, DA:Chroma and EC2-A on the potential eBay auction block, that's for sure


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> @PhiZaRoaH - Ha ha. Yeah, I went with the EC1-A. I keep trying out all these new mice and they're all generally good (I wish the G303 didn't have such an issue with its sensor rattle) but the size and shape of the EC1-A is the sweet spot for me, comfy, precise, and I seem to play well with it. It certainly has put my Castor, DA:Chroma and EC2-A on the potential eBay auction block, that's for sure


I've had two different g303, neither of them has any rattle issue, how common is this?


----------



## MotO

I finally got my EC2-A and I love it aside from the terrible side buttons and it seems to wake my computer from sleep with movement? With my old G400 I had to click a button to wake the computer. Is there a way to turn this off? Any little bump wakes it up now


----------



## xdmcdantex

[/quote]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> It's your mouse, stop fighting it.


WELL ARE YOU HAPPY NOW? I'm performing well with it like before and no wrist pain yet with a day of playing but my fingers are already starting to cramp up. It's just that damn width and right side of the mouse. It needs like a couple mm in width more and straight left side and maybe less sloped downwards on the clicks and i would be happy.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xdmcdantex*


WELL ARE YOU HAPPY NOW? I'm performing well with it like before and no wrist pain yet with a day of playing but my fingers are already starting to cramp up. It's just that damn width and right side of the mouse. It needs like a couple mm in width more and straight left side and maybe less sloped downwards on the clicks and i would be happy.[/quote]

You coulda posted this in the G303 thread. lol

Performing well huh, good to hear. Sorry to hear about the cramping fingers though, that is no Bueno,


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MotO*
> 
> I finally got my EC2-A and I love it aside from the terrible side buttons and it seems to wake my computer from sleep with movement? With my old G400 I had to click a button to wake the computer. Is there a way to turn this off? Any little bump wakes it up now


Unfortunately, with this latest batch regarding the EC series (gosh, I wish the scroll wheel was solid black like the FK and ZA series and the DPI LED notification was at the bottom) - the only way to actually make the mouse 'sleep' is to unplug it. The LED scroll wheel and mushy side buttons are my only gripe with the EC series. Took me a while to get use to the clicks (dare I say "learning curve" for my finger muscles - ha ha)


----------



## m4gg0t

I like the clicks of the EC series but not the shape and the DPI LED on the wheel. So far my FK1 is much better but the width is a little to small, waiting on the FK1+.


----------



## drewno

Can i cut away the LED inside my mouse? I dont like that light.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m4gg0t*
> 
> I like the clicks of the EC series but not the shape and the DPI LED on the wheel. So far my FK1 is much better but the width is a little to small, waiting on the FK1+.


I returned my FK2 because it was too narrow. Let us know what you think of the FK1+ if and when ya get it!


----------



## m4gg0t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I returned my FK2 because it was too narrow. Let us know what you think of the FK1+ if and when ya get it!


Might be awhile before i do. Don't know or if it will be in stock at all.


----------



## doors1991

it's available in my country, Portugal.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



http://www.imperiomultimedia.pt/perifericos/rato-gaming-zowie-benq-fk1.html


----------



## sl4ppy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I returned my FK2 because it was too narrow. Let us know what you think of the FK1+ if and when ya get it!


I got an FK1+ a few days ago.. At first I was skeptical.. its very sloped/not rounded as much in the front like a Razer, but after a few days I'm really starting to like it!

I also have a EC1-A and EC2-A. It's EC-1A sized albeit slightly narrower... Really the biggest difference is how much more sloped it is.

Here they are side by side for comparison.


Profile difference of FK1+ and EC1-A.


----------



## frunction

I have FK1+, I like it much better than ZA11 or EC1. Doesn't dictate how you should hold it, works any grip. This is good for me because I hold the mouse lazier when not gaming.


----------



## m4gg0t

Thats good to know. Going to try to get this mice, maybe my last 3310 mice till 3360 mice start coming out.


----------



## VESPA5

@ sl4ppy - Thanks for providing photos! Wow. The FK1+ looks huge when compared to the EC mice. The EC1-A is already a somewhat medium/large mouse and the FK1+ seems huge from a bird's eye perspective. The hump isn't as pronounced the EC series. Let us know how the clicks feel. The one thing I could never seem to get accustomed to is the stiffness of the FK series buttons. Maybe a larger body will make the clicks less stiff (similar to my EC1-A having lighter clicks than my EC2-A in my experience).


----------



## buddynho

zowie still got problem with suply?


----------



## Zhuni

Yeah man. It's been dry in the UK for 6 months and still is. Couple of vendors I spoke to are simply dropping them


----------



## Aymanb

Weird. Just googling Zowie mice in Denmark brings up about 6 online stores all in stock. Not sure if nobody buys Zowie products or special treatment in this country.


----------



## sl4ppy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> . Let us know how the clicks feel. The one thing I could never seem to get accustomed to is the stiffness of the FK series buttons. Maybe a larger body will make the clicks less stiff (similar to my EC1-A having lighter clicks than my EC2-A in my experience).


The clicks are more solid and crisp than the EC, especially the side buttons which are much smaller.


----------



## m4gg0t

Overall I much happier with the FK1 then i was with the EC2A. I just wish I got the FK1+ as the FK1 is a little small on the width.


----------



## Gonzalez07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m4gg0t*
> 
> Overall I much happier with the FK1 then i was with the EC2A. I just wish I got the FK1+ as the FK1 is a little small on the width.


glad you mentioned that.. i got the fk2 awhile ago thinking it would feel similar to the wheel mouse optical but the sides were too thin.I was eventually going to try out the fk1 but the fk1+ seems more appropriate


----------



## m4gg0t

Yep the FK1+ would be just nice i think. But it's currently out of stock locally so I can't get my hands on it.


----------



## Wovermars1996

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m4gg0t*
> 
> Overall I much happier with the FK1 then i was with the EC2A. I just wish I got the FK1+ as the FK1 is a little small on the width.


I love my FK1+. It's probably my most favorite mouse ever whereas my EC1-A has caused me nothing but headaches.


----------



## vAro

Hi guys,

after using the Zowie EC-2A (newest release with red logo, blah) for a few weeks I noticed two problems.

When I move the mouse fast from left to right I hear a strange noise. It occurs when I play CS:GO a lot.
Next thing: When I hold down the right mouse button it makes a very strange noise..

Is it bad? Do I have to return it? I don't want to live a week or two without it because it's so freaking awesome.... besides these "problems".

Made two videos for you!


----------



## m4gg0t

My EC2A does that also on the right click but not as bad as yours. Since I don't use my EC2A I didn't bother to RMA it.


----------



## frunction

The wiggle noise sounds like the scroll wheel shifting, try holding it when shaking. I might actually return my FK1+ because every time I swipe I can feel the scroll wheel moving. Haven't decided yet.


----------



## saltedham

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> @ sl4ppy - Thanks for providing photos! Wow. The FK1+ looks huge when compared to the EC mice. The EC1-A is already a somewhat medium/large mouse and the FK1+ seems huge from a bird's eye perspective. The hump isn't as pronounced the EC series. Let us know how the clicks feel. The one thing I could never seem to get accustomed to is the stiffness of the FK series buttons. Maybe a larger body will make the clicks less stiff (similar to my EC1-A having lighter clicks than my EC2-A in my experience).


i have an fk1+ and an old fk1 with yellow logo.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m4gg0t*
> 
> My EC2A does that also on the right click but not as bad as yours. Since I don't use my EC2A I didn't bother to RMA it.


i just got a fk1+ and its right click also sounds like the video. this must be the zowie quality ive heard about


----------



## vAro

Hmmm..
@Movement noise: It's not the scroll wheel but a good guess at least.

@right click noise: Have not recognized that until I played Mercy from Overwatch where you hold down the buttons... :S


----------



## m4gg0t

The right click issue and the delay feel in the sensor is what made me put away my EC2A in favor of the FK1.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m4gg0t*
> 
> The right click issue and the delay feel in the sensor is what made me put away my EC2A in favor of the FK1.


It took (2) RMAs of EC2-As and taking it apart to lube up the buttons to actually get a clean clicky feeling for both main buttons. I'm still scratching my head on why the EC series is such a hot commodity. It's good, but in my experience, there are other alternatives that offer more and perform better (at least with my hand). Heck, I just went back to a G900 and I couldn't complain (as my wallet got lighter).


----------



## m4gg0t

Yea i agree. I didn't really like my EC2A since the day I got it. I like my FK1 a lot more. I just think i cant use egonormic mice though the Castors is one of the best minus the click latency.


----------



## Marctraider

Mouse gets slippery after a while, not sure if anyone else has this problem but this solution works pretty sweet









Together with Huano switches replaced with Omron and ultra thin cable from Orochi (De-braided as well) this mouse so sooo good


----------



## VESPA5

^^Well that's one way of resolving the issue. Don't the stickers add a little weight? My hands rarely get hot enough where they're sweaty. I have notoriously dry hands. And what sucks about using my EC1-A is I literally have to lick my fingertips like a pitcher does before gripping a baseball every 5 minutes to get a firm grip on my mouse.


----------



## Jinto

Just ordered an FK2 from Amazon. Something about the EC2-A's clicks just aren't sitting right with me. The right click feels crisp but the left click is a bit mushy and "thunks" rather than "clicks" when I press down. Drives me nuts. Am I in for a good experience despite the non-ergonomic shape?


----------



## m4gg0t

I had the same issue with ny EC2A. My FK1 is much better both clicks feel good, only problem the scroll wheel feels like crap.


----------



## Marctraider

Nah
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> ^^Well that's one way of resolving the issue. Don't the stickers add a little weight? My hands rarely get hot enough where they're sweaty. I have notoriously dry hands. And what sucks about using my EC1-A is I literally have to lick my fingertips like a pitcher does before gripping a baseball every 5 minutes to get a firm grip on my mouse.


Weight is no issue, I doubt they even weigh more than 1 gram each.

Im still trying to get ahold material width leas width, found some vinyl tape 0.125mm (vs 0.50mm)
Which im about to order.

I dont get it though, my problem is exactly opposite of others.
The dry hands on this mouse for me is great compared to when they get wet/oily.

I even use a fan to keep my hands cool but its not enough.
If this thin tape isnt satisfactory somehow, i could always inverse the pads and use it as coverage when i plan to sand paper the spots where my fingers land









I think roughening up the surface could suffice, as the FK2 coating feels fine to me.


----------



## Marctraider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinto*
> 
> Just ordered an FK2 from Amazon. Something about the EC2-A's clicks just aren't sitting right with me. The right click feels crisp but the left click is a bit mushy and "thunks" rather than "clicks" when I press down. Drives me nuts. Am I in for a good experience despite the non-ergonomic shape?


I have the FK2, while its a solid mouse for a ambidex the right side buttons constantly ruined my gaming experience.
Such a distraction









Just replace the huanos with omron switches and tbe EC2 is godly ^^


----------



## doors1991

Sorry for posting here.
i bought a zowie fk2 today,what is the default polling rate ? 500 or 1000 hz ?


----------



## jung1e

Has anyone actually weighed the EC2-A. I know from Ino's BenQ Review thread the EC1-A is 100g rather than the listed 97g, so would love to actually know how much the EC2-A compares to the listed spec of 93g


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jung1e*
> 
> Has anyone actually weighed the EC2-A. I know from Ino's BenQ Review thread the EC1-A is 100g rather than the listed 97g, so would love to actually know how much the EC2-A compares to the listed spec of 93g


I have. It's roughly 95-96 grams with a little cable. It varies though. Plus if you have a good mouse cord bungee, you can subtract a gram or two. It feels heavier than 95-96 grams though. It's a bit on the small side for a mouse (at least for my hands).


----------



## jung1e

yeah im not too fond of the weight distribution. the DA feels significantly lighter to me despite similar weight or maybe even a heavier weight.


----------



## Marctraider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jung1e*
> 
> yeah im not too fond of the weight distribution. the DA feels significantly lighter to me despite similar weight or maybe even a heavier weight.


Weight distribution wise the zowie are excellent.

Go and doubt that again once you've tried a G303 with a braided cable rofl...

That thing is totally out of whack, I bet there is like 15 grams of difference between the front and the back of the mouse too.


----------



## gene-z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinto*
> 
> Just ordered an FK2 from Amazon. Something about the EC2-A's clicks just aren't sitting right with me. The right click feels crisp but the left click is a bit mushy and "thunks" rather than "clicks" when I press down. Drives me nuts. Am I in for a good experience despite the non-ergonomic shape?


It's because Mouse1 has a huge deadzone you have to push past before you start to actuate the switch. It's horrid and I don't understand how the mouse is so popular. The Mouse2 is better because it's angled and curved downward, putting the plastic closer to the switch.

FK series has much better clicks, but they are a bit stiff.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jung1e*
> 
> yeah im not too fond of the weight distribution. the DA feels significantly lighter to me despite similar weight or maybe even a heavier weight.


DA certainly feels lighter than the EC1-a. The distribution of weight is very well done. Zowie mice still feel nice & light. That cable is excellent.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marctraider*
> 
> Weight distribution wise the zowie are excellent.
> 
> Go and doubt that again once you've tried a G303 with a braided cable rofl...
> 
> That thing is totally out of whack, I bet there is like 15 grams of difference between the front and the back of the mouse too.


0 issues with the G303 weight despite the braided cable. To each his own i suppose. I can still whip it around like coke.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jung1e*
> 
> yeah im not too fond of the weight distribution. the DA feels significantly lighter to me despite similar weight or maybe even a heavier weight.


I have both EC mice. Despite the praise that the EC series gets, I'm not a huge fan of the weight distribution. The EC2-A feels like a very heavy '95g' mouse and the shell is designed in a way where pressures your grip more towards the back end (the hump is more towards the buttons). It's as if the mouse was designed with having someone use a wrist rest in mind. And yeah, the DA is actually a very good mouse and it actually feels lighter than my EC2-A


----------



## jung1e

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marctraider*
> 
> Weight distribution wise the zowie are excellent.
> 
> Go and doubt that again once you've tried a G303 with a braided cable rofl...
> 
> That thing is totally out of whack, I bet there is like 15 grams of difference between the front and the back of the mouse too.


I tried the G303 and didnt seem to have a problem with the weight distribution, maybe because the mouse was so small and light that I didn't notice it as much. The one thing is that shape out of hell, I just felt like the back of the mouse was always digging into my palm


----------



## Marctraider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> DA certainly feels lighter than the EC1-a. The distribution of weight is very well done. Zowie mice still feel nice & light. That cable is excellent.
> 0 issues with the G303 weight despite the braided cable. To each his own i suppose. I can still whip it around like coke.


Some people are more sensitive than others I guess, I can feel the same cable, unbraided, more flexible, pulling on my G502 which is much heavier.

Perhaps its my cloth pad, its 45cm and Im a low sens user, unfortunately there is little purpose in a bungee because either the cable gets too long which defeats the bungee's purpose entirely, or its too strict and the whole mousepad cannot be used without pulling or breaking the cable xD

I like my mice to feel wireless with full freedom, the Razer Orochi cable is just that! I have not found a thinner mouse cable as of this day.


----------



## Marctraider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gene-z*
> 
> It's because Mouse1 has a huge deadzone you have to push past before you start to actuate the switch. It's horrid and I don't understand how the mouse is so popular. The Mouse2 is better because it's angled and curved downward, putting the plastic closer to the switch.
> 
> FK series has much better clicks, but they are a bit stiff.


Honestly I think we are dealing with factory flaws here.

My FK2 has way more 'dead zone' before the click is registered at the switch compared to my EC2-a...


----------



## Stats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I dont get it though, my problem is exactly opposite of others.
> The dry hands on this mouse for me is great compared to when they get wet/oily.
> 
> I think roughening up the surface could suffice, as the FK2 coating feels fine to me.


i feel the same way, and the thing is my hands don't even get sweaty with any other mouse but when i tried the ec1-a it was like i just got out of the bath every 30 minutes and had to wipe it off, the coating for the steelseries rival 300 black is perfect for me, wish the ec1-a had this.


----------



## Marctraider

Last attempt to make the EC2-a tolerable in terms of coating.
Used 'Vinyl tape' which is only like 0.1mm in width, the pads are so thin and the material looks almost the same as the original EC2-A coating, its almost invisible.

Still it gives me a lot better grip now because it is different material! I like it thus far.


----------



## skajohyros

I had to do the same otherwise it was like a cake of wet soap.


----------



## boykisser

Currently using the G303. Love the clicks and love the overall performance of the mouse. The scroll wheel isn't too bad either. The shape makes it a bit hard to palm and the sides of my hand are pretty much in the air whenever I try to palm.

Are there any mice with similar performance but most of all, similar light clicks? I play a lot of clicking games (Path of Exile and dota) so light clicks are a must. I'm looking for something a bit wider so I can rest my hand on the mouse, but not high so that my hand becomes angled upwards from the wrist. So a good flat, wide mouse with light clicks.

Thanks.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boykisser*
> 
> Currently using the G303. Love the clicks and love the overall performance of the mouse. The scroll wheel isn't too bad either. The shape makes it a bit hard to palm and the sides of my hand are pretty much in the air whenever I try to palm.
> 
> Are there any mice with similar performance but most of all, similar light clicks? I play a lot of clicking games (Path of Exile and dota) so light clicks are a must. I'm looking for something a bit wider so I can rest my hand on the mouse, but not high so that my hand becomes angled upwards from the wrist. So a good flat, wide mouse with light clicks.
> 
> Thanks.


Really nothing with clicks like the G303 currently. The overall package of the G303 is great if you can adjust.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Really nothing with clicks like the G303 currently. The overall package of the G303 is great if you can adjust.


I agree. The G303 has arguably the best clicks I've ever used on any mouse. The only other mouse I own that comes somewhat close to with (with very low click latency) is the G900.


----------



## maibuN

It seems like 90% of you think zowie ec1/2-a are bad. What alternative can you recommend?


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> It seems like 90% of you think zowie ec1/2-a are bad. What alternative can you recommend?


I don't think they're bad. I have an EC1-A and EC2-A. The quality control lately has been suspect. I think the demand has pressured BenQ to put a rush on manufacturing for these mice and this has resulted in mushy, creaky, or flat out awkward mouse clicks. I personally think there are better mice out there. The "no drivers and no software" gimmick doesn't seem to give me any more advantage over a mouse with on-board memory. And CS:GO players love the mouse since the stiff clicks will prevent misfires. It's all up to what caters to your play style.


----------



## Wovermars1996

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I don't think they're bad. I have an EC1-A and EC2-A. The quality control lately has been suspect. I think the demand has pressured BenQ to put a rush on manufacturing for these mice and this has resulted in mushy, creaky, or flat out awkward mouse clicks. I personally think there are better mice out there. The "no drivers and no software" gimmick doesn't seem to give me any more advantage over a mouse with on-board memory. And CS:GO players love the mouse since the stiff clicks will prevent misfires. It's all up to what caters to your play style.


I agree. Since their recall, it seems that Zowie is trying to rush their production to get as many out as possible at the expense of quality. Now I've had 2 EC1-A and they've both been badly assembled. One arrived with the top shell completely disconnected from the lower shell aka it wasn't screwed on. The second was the RMA replacement for the first one and it was a slight improvement over the first one.


----------



## Conditioned

They feel the best in the hand imho. Also nip and other big teams recently started playing with it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doors1991*
> 
> Sorry for posting here.
> i bought a zowie fk2 today,what is the default polling rate ? 500 or 1000 hz ?


1k I think. Just download markc mouse fix, it has a rater checker in it.


----------



## Jinto

Got my FK2 a few days ago. Despite it's ambi shape and unnecessary side buttons for lefty's, I think I like it better than the EC2-A. Click do feel stiffer but are much more crisp with less noticeable dead zone. Tracking feels good and side buttons are hands down better than the god awful EC series side buttons. But here is the thing, and call me crazy, but I could swear despite its ambi shape the top left side of the shell seems ever so slightly more sloped downward compared to the right. When I rest my hand (right handed) on the mouse my index finger feels like it is sloping on a curve as opposed to my middle finger which feels like it resting on a flatter plain. When I eye-ball the moue from the rear it does seem like the left side is slanting ever so slightly. Has anyone experienced this?


----------



## Marctraider

Bought another EC2-A from Esportstore and surprisingly the finish on the new one is more matte and rougher than my previous one.
Something I'm NOT complaining about









Other than that the quality of the mold and clicks are excellent as always, not even the slightest deviation in quality.

I'm not sure why people are having issues with the EC2-a its so much better than the FK2. Are you guys sure you're not getting some older version? I think its the same story as people are still buying G303's with sensor rattles, its simply old stock.

Anyway, I think Zowie is still 'refining' their mouse, and in fact there is nothing wrong with it at all, its better than some of the other brands do and keep all the bugs and fabrication errors in until users start to complain.

Behold (Left new, right 'old'):
Color is also lighter different as is the sound when going over it with my nail.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marctraider*
> 
> I'm not sure why people are having issues with the EC2-a its so much better than the FK2. Are you guys sure you're not getting some older version? I think its the same story as people are still buying G303's with sensor rattles, its simply old stock.


Nope. I've had 2 Red Logo EC2-As since the 'recall' of Omron switches. The first one I had to RMA because the RMB never clicked (a clickless Huano switch, go figure) and the other I had to prop open to lubricate the switches better because they kept sticking. If you got your hands on a nice mouse with no issues, then you won the Huano Lottery. But my luck with the EC2-A is kinda 50/50. Sorta like the G303 sensor issue (you either have sensor rattle, will have sensor rattle, or don't). It's a good mouse. It's just the switches have always given me some weird problems here and there.


----------



## Marctraider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Nope. I've had 2 Red Logo EC2-As since the 'recall' of Omron switches. The first one I had to RMA because the RMB never clicked (a clickless Huano switch, go figure) and the other I had to prop open to lubricate the switches better because they kept sticking. If you got your hands on a nice mouse with no issues, then you won the Huano Lottery. But my luck with the EC2-A is kinda 50/50. Sorta like the G303 sensor issue (you either have sensor rattle, will have sensor rattle, or don't). It's a good mouse. It's just the switches have always given me some weird problems here and there.


I guess i did won the Huano lottery twice, then again I replaced them with Omron D2F-01F's and now the mice clicks like a feather.

I would say the result is arguably equal or extremely close to the G303.

The nice thing about EC2-a is that you can slightly adjust the acuation with the two screw holes that are not covered by the mouse feet/skates, so I dont screw up my EC2-A hyperglides









There isnt a perfect mouse anywhere in the world, you gotta make the 'best' mouse that exists perfect. It will cost even more, but the end result is perfection


----------



## CIV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marctraider*
> 
> I replaced them with Omron D2F-01F's and now the mice clicks like a feather.


Did you just buy these off at Amazon and what was the process of swapping them out? Also, Can I swap out one of my old Zowie mousewheels into the ec2 and pull out the scroll light?


----------



## Twiffle

Not sure is it just me... but it seems like ec1-a curves outwards while ec2-a curves inwards on the right side?


----------



## hotwheels1997

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Not sure is it just me... but it seems like ec1-a curves outwards while ec2-a curves inwards on the right side?


Your fingers are at a different place with each mouse.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hotwheels1997*
> 
> Your fingers are at a different place with each mouse.


I mean if you look at the image that was posted by Marctraider it just looks that the curve is different on EC1-A compared to EC2-A.


----------



## DarthBaggins

Debating on snagging an EC1-A from my work as a new mouse for my main rig or snagging a Mionix Naos 7000


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarthBaggins*
> 
> Debating on snagging an EC1-A from my work as a new mouse for my main rig or snagging a Mionix Naos 7000


I have both mice. That's a day and night difference if you use palm grip.


----------



## DarthBaggins

I do primarily palm, last mouse I got a few weeks ago was the Gigabyte XM300 and it's a great mouse. (Or really the sensor is great -3988). But I did get comfortable with how my previous Naga (2012) fit my hand which is why I was looking at the Mionix. Also hear great things about Zowie mice and saw an EC1-A here at work so thought if the price is right ($46.57 with my discount) I might as well give it a shot (since I do like the shape as well even if it's not a fully contoured fit)


----------



## AuraDesruu

I just rebought the EC2-A again from amazon. I got the red verison this time instead of the white verison. The mouse wheel don't feel as distinct as the white one and the clicks are lighter on the red verison. I thought the 16 step scroll wheel would make it harder to scroll than my G402. My g402 scroll wheel is tougher than my ec2-a. I don't know how I feel..


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AuraDesruu*
> 
> I just rebought the EC2-A again from amazon. I got the red verison this time instead of the white verison. The mouse wheel don't feel as distinct as the white one and the clicks are lighter on the red verison. I thought the 16 step scroll wheel would make it harder to scroll than my G402. My g402 scroll wheel is tougher than my ec2-a. I don't know how I feel..


One of my friends just bought one from Amazon as well. The packaging has "changed". It used to be a simple open and plop off the plastic and go. But it looks like BenQ paid more employees to make sure they added tape to the packaging (inside and out) lol. I found it very hard to go back to my EC2-A after using other mice with much easier buttons to spam click. Note: it's not the Huano switches, it's the shell that make the buttons a lot more 'tactile' and stiff than others.


----------



## AuraDesruu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> One of my friends just bought one from Amazon as well. The packaging has "changed". It used to be a simple open and plop off the plastic and go. But it looks like BenQ paid more employees to make sure they added tape to the packaging (inside and out) lol. I found it very hard to go back to my EC2-A after using other mice with much easier buttons to spam click. Note: it's not the Huano switches, it's the shell that make the buttons a lot more 'tactile' and stiff than others.


Yeah I kinda knew that the shell made it stiffer to press. The clicks on my EC2-A feel super light compared to my white one. they almost feel like my G402 with 4 more grams of weight to actuate


----------



## VESPA5

I'm no Logitech fanboy, but when I went from an EC2-A to a G303 (and now, I'm using a G900), it's very difficult to go back to Huano/Zowie switches. I used a DeathAdder for 3 years and getting used to a slight stiffness in mouse clicks really was challenging (resulted in a lot of frustrating matches online). The pros for the EC2-A for me is that it's easier to flick with the wrist and it's light.


----------



## Watsyurdeal

Got a new EC2-A yesterday, after my last one came to me defective.

Very happy with it so far, my aim is on point, the shape feels a LITTLE too small at times, but it's still very nice nonetheless. The sensor has no jitters or weird issues whatsoever, so I really can't complain.

Whether I'll keep using it or use the Revel, well, I'll know in about a month from now.


----------



## Hunched

A pretty common issue with the EC1-A/EC2-A that people are doing RMA's over to get the same problem is the right click can creak.
I solved this by pulling up the right click button and filing down the side, it moves left when you click it down and can grind against the compartment holding the mouse wheel.
Just file the side of the right click away until it no longer makes contact when you push it down.

Didn't find a solution anywhere so I made one.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> A pretty common issue with the EC1-A/EC2-A that people are doing RMA's over to get the same problem is the right click can creak.
> I solved this by pulling up the right click button and filing down the side, it moves left when you click it down and can grind against the compartment holding the mouse wheel.
> Just file the side of the right click away until it no longer makes contact when you push it down.
> 
> Didn't find a solution anywhere so I made one.


Wow. I gotta take apart my EC2-A again to see if this might do the trick. Thanks for sharing your solution. I know that it's easier (and cheaper) to create buttons that are all part of the whole mouse's shell, but when the buttons are segregated from the shell itself (like the G303 or G900), the clicks are usually crisper, better or good overall. The funny thing is, I've had a DeathAdder for 3+ years and it has a "buttons are part of the shell" design and it never creaked or felt awkward to me.


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Wow. I gotta take apart my EC2-A again to see if this might do the trick. Thanks for sharing your solution. I know that it's easier (and cheaper) to create buttons that are all part of the whole mouse's shell, but when the buttons are segregated from the shell itself (like the G303 or G900), the clicks are usually crisper, better or good overall. The funny thing is, I've had a DeathAdder for 3+ years and it has a "buttons are part of the shell" design and it never creaked or felt awkward to me.


Yea. You don't even need to take it apart if you're careful, you can just pull the right click up, it's pretty durable and won't snap or anything.
It's about the final 5mm or so of the inner side of the right click that needs to be removed.
You can see the creaking doesn't happen if you make sure it doesn't touch the wheel compartment when you push it down beforehand, by pushing down and to the right awkwardly in a way that would never actually work in real use.

That's all the issue is, design oversight, plastic rubbing plastic. Remove some plastic = problem gone.
It's not a build quality problem, it was a not testing our product problem.
Seems like they weren't expecting the shell of the right click to bend left when pushed down, if it went straight down as they were planning this wouldn't happen.

If the next EC2-A or whatever it's going to be called fixes the right click and has better thumb buttons, it will be a perfect 10/10 IMO.


----------



## TrancePlant

Hi all,

I just wanted to let you all know that the latest Zowie EC2-A batches don't seem to have the right mouse button creak issue (I ordered one from Benq's EU online store on July 15th and received it on 19th July), so it appears that they're adjusting things based on feedback from RMA's.

I ordered an EC1-A from Benq's EU online store and it should be arriving in the next couple of days (the EC2-A doesn't seem to have any issues that I've read about in this thread so far, it's just a tad too small for me to find comfortable as a palm gripper that prefers to have his hand On the mouse rather than around it). I'll let you know if there's anything different about that one too!

Bonus: I spoke to them on the phone and they got a brand new shipment in today which they will be delivering my EC1-A from today along with a GTF-X mat that I also ordered with it. Is there anything other than "don't counter-roll the mouse mat" tip in regards to this mat? (for anyone that owns it).


----------



## m4gg0t

Yes, don't counter roll the pad, let it unfold by itself or you're going to get creases and fold lines. Though mine came with creases and fold lines out of the box.


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TrancePlant*
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I just wanted to let you all know that the latest Zowie EC2-A batches don't seem to have the right mouse button creak issue (I ordered one from Benq's EU online store on July 15th and received it on 19th July), so it appears that they're adjusting things based on feedback from RMA's.


I ordered mine on July 14th and it has the issue so I'm pretty sure it's still around.
It won't effect every EC2-A, if your shell is just a fraction of a millimeter over a bit it won't make contact.

Mine for example didn't bend left enough/hard enough for an audible creak, but you could feel the plastic rubbing.

I just had to literally grind a hairs width off the side and it was fixed, so getting a mouse without it can just be within margin of error.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Thought about making a bee thread but opted to ask here just for discussion.

Here is the question, Ec2-A vs Ec1-A

Which do you prefer and why?? Hand size & grip style would be good to include.

Personally my hand is 20.5 CM. I am testing the 2-a vs 1-a to see which i prefer overall. Both do feel good in the hand. The Ec1-A highly resembles the IE 3.0 & my hand does love that heavily.

As for the Ec2-a even though, it is smaller & thinner. It still does feel good in the hand + the smaller size makes it very easy to toss around. i do Palm both mice & can whip either around very easily.

I haven't fully discovered which mouse i track better with just yet probably because i switch off consistently. I will say overall i think the Ec1-A is the most comfy mouse next to the IE 3.0 i have ever held. The 2-a feels great just a tad smaller obviously.

What do you all prefer??


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Thought about making a bee thread but opted to ask here just for discussion.
> 
> Here is the question, Ec2-A vs Ec1-A
> 
> Which do you prefer and why?? Hand size & grip style would be good to include.
> 
> Personally my hand is 20.5 CM. I am testing the 2-a vs 1-a to see which i prefer overall. Both do feel good in the hand. The Ec1-A highly resembles the IE 3.0 & my hand does love that heavily.
> 
> As for the Ec2-a even though, it is smaller & thinner. It still does feel good in the hand + the smaller size makes it very easy to toss around. i do Palm both mice & can whip either around very easily.
> 
> I haven't fully discovered which mouse i track better with just yet probably because i switch off consistently. I will say overall i think the Ec1-A is the most comfy mouse next to the IE 3.0 i have ever held. The 2-a feels great just a tad smaller obviously.
> 
> What do you all prefer??


I preffered the EC2 but I also fingertip and even that is to big so I returned it. If I palmed, then I would probably pick IE 3.0>DA 4G>EC1-A


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> I preffered the EC2 but I also fingertip and even that is to big so I returned it. If I palmed, then I would probably pick IE 3.0>DA 4G>EC1-A


DA over 1-A for palm? Surprising since you have the 3.0 first & i feel the Ec represents the shape much better only cause of that flaring front right side.


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> DA over 1-A for palm? Surprising since you have the 3.0 first & i feel the Ec represents the shape much better only cause of that flaring front right side.


My hand is only like 19cm so the flare doesn't bug me too much, plus the DA sensor is better.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> My hand is only like 19cm so the flare doesn't bug me too much, plus the DA sensor is better.


Crappy pics incoming.







The front right ledge only bothers me when the plastic is sharp, i had a couple Chromas that were like that, it sucked heavily. My ring is all over that ledge like white on rice.


----------



## Twiffle

18 cm and 9cm I had both EC1-A and EC2-A(currently just have my white logo ec2-a) but EC1-A felt comfortable while a bit too big which affected my aim in full palm. As for EC2-A I can't palm it, it just feels too small(?) to palm.. I hold it in a fingertip grip but just tiny bit of the lower part of my palm is touching the butt. Which do I prefer? EC2-A, although not using it atm. Due to me leaning more towards fingertip style I've been using Rival 100 and now waiting on KPM to see if it's a better fit.

Also not sure what is it about zowie mice but they make my hand sweat like crazy. Never had that problem with my Rival 100,Rival 300, Xornet 2 or G100s/G303


----------



## Stats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> 18 cm and 9cm I had both EC1-A and EC2-A(currently just have my white logo ec2-a) but EC1-A felt comfortable while a bit too big which affected my aim in full palm. As for EC2-A I can't palm it, it just feels too small(?) to palm.. I hold it in a fingertip grip but just tiny bit of the lower part of my palm is touching the butt. Which do I prefer? EC2-A, although not using it atm. Due to me leaning more towards fingertip style I've been using Rival 100 and now waiting on KPM to see if it's a better fit.
> 
> Also not sure what is it about zowie mice but they make my hand sweat like crazy. Never had that problem with my Rival 100,Rival 300, Xornet 2 or G100s/G303


i am the exact same when it comes to the sweat thing i have no idea what it is, never happens with any other mouse except when i tried the ec1-a, i literally had to go wipe my hand off every 30 minutes, with others i can play all day and nothing happens


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stats*
> 
> i am the exact same when it comes to the sweat thing i have no idea what it is, never happens with any other mouse except when i tried the ec1-a, i literally had to go wipe my hand off every 30 minutes, with others i can play all day and nothing happens


Yeah exactly.. kinda weird


----------



## Jinto

Been thinking about opening up my FK2 and lubricating the huano's and other switches. Does anybody have any experience with this? If so, any recommendations on what type of lubricant to use?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jinto*
> 
> Been thinking about opening up my FK2 and lubricating the huano's and other switches. Does anybody have any experience with this? If so, any recommendations on what type of lubricant to use?


There is nothing to lubricate. The only thing is the wheel spring mechanism.

Oiling the switch can (and probably will) cause it to stop functioning properly.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> There is nothing to lubricate.


Not with that attitude.


----------



## Twiffle

Why would you want to lubricate the switches? First time even hearing anyone wanting to do that. The stiffness will still be there cause of the shell :s


----------



## Demi9OD

19cm/9cm hand and just got my EC2-A. Honestly could deal with it being a little smaller length wise. The buttons are so much easier to click than my ZA12 though and overall the comfort is greatly improved from the ergo shape. The IE 3.0 never appealed to me, but back then I was a high sensitivity gamer and couldn't do anything with finger movements on the IE 3.0. Another thing is that I will always rest my wrist when navigating in Windows, and can't do that with the IE 3.0 and I imagine the EC1-A.


----------



## buckwheat

Not sure where the place to ask is, but I have the BenQ Zowie EC-2A and I am looking for the original white Zowie version of the EC2-A. I much prefer the rough coating of the old Zowie mice. I was wondering if anyone wanted to trade here?


----------



## Ahnnn

Pretty much the same for the 2nd FK1 batch that I still own , I did a video showing the same issue quite sometime ago. Anyway , is it a good idea to pick a EC now? Been reading up a lot of complains , also are the EC mouse clicks much much easier than the FK1? Because I heard it is the shell itself that made the clicks so hard for the FK. Also because of the clicks and my grip style (semi claw and fingertip) , I have troubles spamming pistols in CSGO. Or I should look for another mouse instead? Another issue arises though , is that I'm currently using the highest LOD option for fk1 on a Goliathus speed/Qck mass , recently I can't play any lower LOD than that. So many problems just to get a mouse lol.


----------



## Aymanb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ahnnn*
> 
> Pretty much the same for the 2nd FK1 batch that I still own , I did a video showing the same issue quite sometime ago. Anyway , is it a good idea to pick a EC now? Been reading up a lot of complains , also are the EC mouse clicks much much easier than the FK1? Because I heard it is the shell itself that made the clicks so hard for the FK. Also because of the clicks and my grip style (semi claw and fingertip) , I have troubles spamming pistols in CSGO. Or I should look for another mouse instead? Another issue arises though , is that I'm currently using the highest LOD option for fk1 on a Goliathus speed/Qck mass , recently I can't play any lower LOD than that. So many problems just to get a mouse lol.


The EC series has much lighter buttons than the FK yes. And yes if you like the shape go for it. Don't listen to people ranting, make up your own opinion.

If there was something wrong with every EC mouse Zowie would have gone bankrupt by now.


----------



## Ahnnn

Thanks a lot for your opinion , assuming same sensor used with both fk1 and ec2a , both lods should be exactly the same right? Also , any other recommendations for claw and fingertip hybrid grip?


----------



## Ameko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ahnnn*
> 
> Thanks a lot for your opinion , assuming same sensor used with both fk1 and ec2a , both lods should be exactly the same right? Also , any other recommendations for claw and fingertip hybrid grip?


There are no mice for specific grips/hand sizes
Anyways if you are looking for ec - you should check DA chroma(I'm always suggesting DA instead of EC, hehehe)
I also use claw/fingertip hybrid
Haven't found more comfortable mouse than DA yet
But it's just me
u r different ofc


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ahnnn*
> 
> Thanks a lot for your opinion , assuming same sensor used with both fk1 and ec2a , both lods should be exactly the same right? Also , any other recommendations for claw and fingertip hybrid grip?


To be honest, nobody will really know what feels right or works best for you other than yourself. I personally gave up on Zowie mice after using them for over a year (hence, I'm knockin' it after I tried it), been using a DeathAdder for over 3 years and my daily driver now has been the Logitech G900 --- all this while I claw/fingertip grip with 18cm hands. You might even consider the weight as a factor too. I'm not big on the sensor hype. I've used a lot of non-3310 and non-3360 mice that performed great. If you can, just buy mice from Amazon. They have an excellent no nonsense return policy. If the mouse doesn't feel right, return it. Just know that each mouse has its own "learning curve". It took me about a good week to adjust to the G900's weight and form. At first, I hated it because it was over 100g, now, it's my be all end all mouse to use (for now).


----------



## blobs

I guess this is a good place to put this

At this point my mouse is more of a frankenstein between a Zowie EC2, EC2-Evo, and EC2-A










Welp the nixeus revel is gonna come out sooner or later so I have an excuse to mess up my mouse a little


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blobs*
> 
> I guess this is a good place to put this
> 
> At this point my mouse is more of a frankenstein between a Zowie EC2, EC2-Evo, and EC2-A
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Welp the nixeus revel is gonna come out sooner or later so I have an excuse to mess up my mouse a little


That looks great to me. Lol

Anyone here have an ec2 or ec1 white/black in good condition lying around they don't mind getting rid of?? I wanna test the 3090 vs the 3310.

I was shown a place to pick one up brand new but i'm trying to see what the used market has. Ebay pretty much had none, aliexpress has one but it's at $70 us. If anyone does in the US, pm me. Thanks.


----------



## buckwheat

Question for you guys who own a white logo Zowie EC mouse. The textures of the white logo ZA and FK mice have a rough surface to them but the BenQ Zowie EC2-A is completely smooth. I am asking you guys if you know if that is a EC series thing or a new BenQ thing?

Thanks


----------



## predict

The EC series always had a more "smooth" surface than the ZA and FK versions. BUT i just got a brand new benq za12, i ******* hate that new "rubbery" coating, totally garbage, though the overall buttons seems to be way better. If zowie would just use the coating used on the old white ZA and FK series, they would be good.


----------



## buckwheat

would you say the coating on your new ZA is smoother overall than the white logo ZA?

I had a white logo ec1-a for a few days. returned it because it was too big, but I can't remember if the coating was the same or not with the new BenQ versions. I love the rough feel of the white logo ZA. Just wish my BenQ version of the ec2-a had that coating.


----------



## maibuN

How can any zowie mouse be too big? I have ec1-a and it is way too small. It can`t really hold it, feels like a mouse for children. 19,5 cm hands


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> How can any zowie mouse be too big? I have ec1-a and it is way too small. It can`t really hold it, feels like a mouse for children. 19,5 cm hands


Just like I have no idea how the Ec1 can feel small to you. lol my hands are 20.5 and the ec1 does not in any way feel small. I'm actually running the ec2-a currently and very much enjoy it.


----------



## rattleheadmegadeth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> How can any zowie mouse be too big? I have ec1-a and it is way too small. It can`t really hold it, feels like a mouse for children. 19,5 cm hands


i have 20cm hands and ec1 is perfect for me... maybe u lay ur entire hand on the mouse or something
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Just like I have no idea how the Ec1 can feel small to you. lol my hands are 20.5 and the ec1 does not in any way feel small. I'm actually running the ec2-a currently and very much enjoy it.


Depends how you hold it..maybe he lays his hand flat on the thing. its perfect for my 20cm hands for the way i hold it


----------



## rattleheadmegadeth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rattleheadmegadeth*
> 
> Depends how you hold it..maybe he lays his hand flat on the thing. its perfect for my 20cm hands for the way i hold it


----------



## rattleheadmegadeth

d


----------



## maibuN

Yes, I palm grip it. Many reviews and comments etc. say that it is good for palm grip but with 19.5 cm hands it is almost impossible to palm grip the ec1-a. I think it is because the shape is so insanely flat. The rivla in comparisan is much higher. ms 3.0 is also much higher. So you can palm 3.0 and rival but not ec1-a.


----------



## rattleheadmegadeth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> Yes, I palm grip it. Many reviews and comments etc. say that it is good for palm grip but with 19.5 cm hands it is almost impossible to palm grip the ec1-a. I think it is because the shape is so insanely flat. The rivla in comparisan is much higher. ms 3.0 is also much higher. So you can palm 3.0 and rival but not ec1-a.


For me the ec1 and 3.0 are great for palm....3.0 slightly better. i never understood how people can call the deathadder a palm grip mouse... its low as hell...and your palm is basically in the air and the only thing gripping it is your fingers & thumb....


----------



## maibuN

I agree, DA is terrible for palm grip.

BUt ec1-a is too low for me too. But rival is too narrow. Is it so hard to design a good mouse ..?


----------



## rattleheadmegadeth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> I agree, DA is terrible for palm grip.
> 
> BUt ec1-a is too low for me too. But rival is too narrow. Is it so hard to design a good mouse ..?


3.0 shell in high quality and new sensor would be a dream. 3.0 just falls right into your hand with no hand adjustment. Sometimes its possible to get used to a certain mouse shape. I sometimes to back to the G400 and at times i cant hold it at all, and sometimes it fits like a glove... its weird. but then there are mice that just feel like crap no matter how much you try and get used to it.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maibuN*
> 
> Yes, I palm grip it. Many reviews and comments etc. say that it is good for palm grip but with 19.5 cm hands it is almost impossible to palm grip the ec1-a. I think it is because the shape is so insanely flat. The rivla in comparisan is much higher. ms 3.0 is also much higher. So you can palm 3.0 and rival but not ec1-a.


The hump is smoother & less aggressive compared to the 3.0 & DA. i am at work on my phone & had to find some pics ad quick as possible. Here are a few pics showing them side by side from Amazon. Lol







Next to a Rival



A shot of the Da's hump which is more aggressive & snugs a bit more under your index finger like the 3.0



For me personally i can palm all 4 of the mice mentioned. The most overall comfortable are the 3.0 & EC, then the Rival. That doesn't mean the DA is not comfy, i used it 5 years & i Love the thing so it certainly works.

All are great great mice. I feel like the Ec1 is the best copy of the 3.0 overall, i can go from one to the other with 0 issue at all. The 5 mm less in length is no issue on the ec1. It fits like a glove for me.


----------



## predict

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buckwheat*
> 
> would you say the coating on your new ZA is smoother overall than the white logo ZA?
> 
> I had a white logo ec1-a for a few days. returned it because it was too big, but I can't remember if the coating was the same or not with the new BenQ versions. I love the rough feel of the white logo ZA. Just wish my BenQ version of the ec2-a had that coating.


Yes it is way smoother than the white logo ZA they are not even close and yea i like the rough texture way more aswell.


----------



## buckwheat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *predict*
> 
> Yes it is way smoother than the white logo ZA they are not even close and yea i like the rough texture way more aswell.


oh ok. thank you for the post







I really appreciate.


----------



## LLabwons

Is there a way to tell whether or not your mouse was made with Omrons or Huanos besides opening it up? I picked up an EC2-A on Ebay (BenQ) and the clicks are deliciously light and crisp. Coming from an FK1, I know the shell was to blame for the stiffness, but hardly can I believe that these are the same switches.


----------



## DarthBaggins

Final picked up a EC1-A from work, definitely a better mouse compared to my XM300 from Gigabyte. Just wish the DPI button was accessible from the top like the Gigabyte. So now to see how I like it's sensor over the Gigabyte's (same sensor as the DA Chroma). Do love the feel of this mouse though in comparison as well.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarthBaggins*
> 
> Final picked up a EC1-A from work, definitely a better mouse compared to my XM300 from Gigabyte. Just wish the DPI button was accessible from the top like the Gigabyte. So now to see how I like it's sensor over the Gigabyte's (same sensor as the DA Chroma). Do love the feel of this mouse though in comparison as well.


I never understood the decision making in putting a DPI switch on the BOTTOM of a gaming mouse. If this mouse was intended for gamers, it definitely didn't cater to those who would like to switch CPI/DPI speeds on the fly depending on the situation in-game.


----------



## Maximillion

It's been said plenty of times before, but for the most part, pro FPS gamers would never switch DPI "on the fly". If anything, not having to worry about accidentally hitting the DPI button is a positive in competition. A lot of players even set up their mice so that all steps are the same to avoid this potential issue (or simply assigning one step, if possible).

Obviously some casual gamers do in some games, but it's not a "feature" most competitive players are craving. I'd even say there are a significantly larger % of competitive FPS gamers using accel (which is a _fairly_ small group to begin with) than "toggling" DPI in-game. But I will say that I do prefer having a physical button rather than needing to go into software should I, for example, want to change DPI for desktop use (or just general testing purposes).


----------



## ncck

I agree with Max, as a competitive player I'd never ever change dpi in-game, only time I'd ever do it is game specific before a game or just on the desktop if I'm feeling lazy and don't want to move my hand around - changing your sensitivity mid-game in any game can't be good for muscle memory - and it's on the bottom to prevent it from accidentally being pressed, sometimes on the top (very rare) you can actuate it and go from 400 to 800 while playing and that won't be good









now since this thread is back up here a question
For anyone with like 18.5-19cm hands that has used both the ec1-a and ec2-a which size do you prefer? I've heard from many people that the EC2-a is better overall because it's small form factor plus width/height allow you to palm it


----------



## VESPA5

Oh, don't get me wrong, I have my CPI/DPI religiously set to 800. And not everyone here is trying to be pro but I am competitive and it's nice to know that 80% of my gaming mice have a basic feature such as a DPI switch. It's just one of those "better to have it and not need it rather than need it and not have it" scenarios. And I'm pretty sure BenQ wants more than just "pro players" to buy their mice. Profits are pretty important to businesses as well


----------



## Melan

I used CPI switch on my G500 a lot when I played BF2. I had steps set for infantry, chopper pilot, gunner, tv missile, jets, jet guided missiles, tanks etc. Good times.

I don't know how can you "accidentally" CPI switch though.


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> It's just one of those "better to have it and not need it rather than need it and not have it" scenarios. And I'm pretty sure BenQ wants more than just "pro players" to buy their mice. Profits are pretty important to businesses as well


True. But the "underneath" design probably isn't too much of an issue for the CS crowd which is Zowie's bread and butter.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> I don't know how can you "accidentally" CPI switch though.


Never been a problem for me personally with any mouse but IIRC some people had the issue with the G502/402 design depending on their grip.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I agree with Max, as a competitive player I'd never ever change dpi in-game, only time I'd ever do it is game specific before a game or just on the desktop if I'm feeling lazy and don't want to move my hand around - changing your sensitivity mid-game in any game can't be good for muscle memory - and it's on the bottom to prevent it from accidentally being pressed, sometimes on the top (very rare) you can actuate it and go from 400 to 800 while playing and that won't be good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now since this thread is back up here a question
> For anyone with like 18.5-19cm hands that has used both the ec1-a and ec2-a which size do you prefer? I've heard from many people that the EC2-a is better overall because it's small form factor plus width/height allow you to palm it


I have a 20.5-21cm hand. I like both, but still prefer the Ec2 vs the Ec1. It's comfy & i can still palm it because it's still wide enough & tall enough.


----------



## Ameko

People still think too much about their centimeters...
Just try them geez
Can't try? Think about mice that was comfortable for you
Hand size doesn't matter


----------



## drazah

My old mouse had the DPI switch on the top and I absolutely hated it. I don't, or have ever known anyone who switches DPI "on the fly" and I would always accidentally press the dpi switch which would drive my sensitivity through the roof.

Recently picked up an EC2-A and its probably the best mouse i have ever used.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drazah*
> 
> My old mouse had the DPI switch on the top and I absolutely hated it. I don't, or have ever known anyone who switches DPI "on the fly" and I would always accidentally press the dpi switch which would drive my sensitivity through the roof.
> 
> Recently picked up an EC2-A and its probably the best mouse i have ever used.


On the contrary, I have a lot of friends who do switch their DPI on the fly. Just because one niche doesn't do it means that EVERYONE shouldn't do it. And Zowie mice tend to be great on other games out there that are not tied to CS. If Zowie only catered to CS players, the company would be out of business sooner rather than later (thankfully BenQ bailed them out).


----------



## drazah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> On the contrary, I have a lot of friends who do switch their DPI on the fly. Just because one niche doesn't do it means that EVERYONE shouldn't do it. And Zowie mice tend to be great on other games out there that are not tied to CS. If Zowie only catered to CS players, the company would be out of business sooner rather than later (thankfully BenQ bailed them out).


I completely agree, I mainly ment what I was saying to be my personal experience and not really a "gaming standard". Jumping DPI on the fly is just to much for me (im a high sens, wrist-ish player) so it just didn't make sense. Id go from perfect sensitivity to doing 360 noscopes (lol) out of no where. I do on the other-hand really like that games now are allowing certain sensitivities to be set per role, vehicle, character that you play. Overwatch does this well depending on the hero you play by being able to setup certain settings that only apply to those heroes, which works great for me.


----------



## m4gg0t

The EC series also has a laggy sensor feeling compaired to the FK series. My copy of the EC2A has a horrible RMB and lense rattle. My FK1 is near perfection.


----------



## drazah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m4gg0t*
> 
> The EC series also has a laggy sensor feeling compaired to the FK series. My copy of the EC2A has a horrible RMB and lense rattle. My FK1 is near perfection.


That seems rough, Ive been hearing a lot that Zowie mice vary differently as some get good ones and some get really bad ones. Luckily, my new EC2A has been perfect, and definitely an upgrade from what I was using before. I don't have a lot of knowledge with different mice as I have used the same one for many years now and this was my first different type of mouse purchase, but my EC2A seems to have perfect clicks and solid lense. I changed my mousepad to a "control" (weave type cloth) version and only thing I had to do was lower my LOD and things are back to perfect.


----------



## DarthBaggins

Guess I must have gotten a good EC1-A, clicks are crisp and precise, no lag (using a mat I received from a ASRock rep cloth that's a speed/control )
Been playing UT2016 got most headshots in a match (14) that is to this mouse.


----------



## m4gg0t

I also don't really like the ergonomic shape of the EC series, so not using the mouse to game is alright. Going to try selling it though.


----------



## drazah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m4gg0t*
> 
> I also don't really like the ergonomic shape of the EC series, so not using the mouse to game is alright. Going to try selling it though.


I have heard this a lot depending on your grip. Friend tested my EC2A and he uses a pretty serious claw grip, MUCH lower sensitivity and is not a wrist player at all (Literally the complete opposite to me) and he cant use it, He needs something more ambidextrous and lighter for his grip and just the way his hands are shaped. But if the shape of the mouse does not work, DEFINITELY do not keep using it as that to me is the most important part of the mouse.


----------



## m4gg0t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drazah*
> 
> I have heard this a lot depending on your grip. Friend tested my EC2A and he uses a pretty serious claw grip, MUCH lower sensitivity and is not a wrist player at all (Literally the complete opposite to me) and he cant use it, He needs something more ambidextrous and lighter for his grip and just the way his hands are shaped. But if the shape of the mouse does not work, DEFINITELY do not keep using it as that to me is the most important part of the mouse.


I can use the EC2A well in games, but it just feel slower compaired to my FK. Like the tracking is not as smooth or something. The shapes alright, but not really to my liking. And the really high difference in the click feeling puts me off.


----------



## agsz

Anyone elses Zowie BenQ mice look like this? http://imgur.com/a/YMBb7
I got it in March, haven't even used it yet to be honest, but it looks like I held it in my hand while sweating profusely for hours at a time..


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Anyone elses Zowie BenQ mice look like this? http://imgur.com/a/YMBb7
> I got it in March, haven't even used it yet to be honest, but it looks like I held it in my hand while sweating profusely for hours at a time..


If that's how it came right AFTER you took it out of the box, it looks like a refurbished used mouse. But, if you've held it even for a few minutes, depending on how much your hand sweats, this thing gets rather slimey and oily real quickly.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> If that's how it came right AFTER you took it out of the box, it looks like a refurbished used mouse. But, if you've held it even for a few minutes, depending on how much your hand sweats, this thing gets rather slimey and oily real quickly.


I got it directly from Zowie after RMA'ing my white logo Zowie EC1-A. I probably held it for no longer than 20 minutes total when removing the screwed up mousefeet it came with. The pictures with the Finalmouse next to it, were the week I got it, pictures of the coating specifically were recently. It was kept in a ziploc bag in a cool dark place in my room, so it's kind of odd to say the least.


----------



## rivage

Haven't been lurking the thread for a while, so what's the current thoughts about the EC1/2-A? Overall bad or good mice / worth purchasing ?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Overall good mice yes. Great shape, comfy, solid performance, buttons are preferance. Worth purchasing.

We have no idea when Zowie will refresh but we believe it will be a bit.


----------



## drazah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rivage*
> 
> Haven't been lurking the thread for a while, so what's the current thoughts about the EC1/2-A? Overall bad or good mice / worth purchasing ?


Just got an EC2-A and couldnt be happier. I play wristish, with a claw/palm hybrid grip and the shape is perfect. I had to lower the LOD with my mousepad but other than that it feels extremely solid.


----------



## Demi9OD

My experience with EC2-A
Pros: Great ergo shape, lightest buttons (closest to Logi/Razer) of the Zowie line, great sensor performance, great cable.
Cons: A bit overpriced at $65 with shipping, mushy mousewheel clicks.


----------



## Watsyurdeal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Demi9OD*
> 
> My experience with EC2-A
> Pros: Great ergo shape, lightest buttons (closest to Logi/Razer) of the Zowie line, great sensor performance, great cable.
> Cons: A bit overpriced at $65 with shipping, mushy mousewheel clicks.


Pretty much my experience as well


----------



## agsz

Anyone with ~20cm hands using an EC2-A? Debating if I should ask to be sent an EC2-A via RMA, have to decide today


----------



## drazah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Anyone with ~20cm hands using an EC2-A? Debating if I should ask to be sent an EC2-A via RMA, have to decide today


Mine are near exactly 19.5cm, skinny with long fingers. Mouse before my EC2-A was actually bigger and closer to EC1-A specs, I prefer the EC2-A over it as far as fit goes for my grip and playstyle. Wristish with a hybrid palm/claw grip


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Anyone with ~20cm hands using an EC2-A? Debating if I should ask to be sent an EC2-A via RMA, have to decide today


If you intend to palm EC2-A with 20cm hands... then I wouldn't recommend it. I struggled to palm it with 18cm hands... but reason for that is prolly that my palm is quite small but fingers long. I suppose it could work with some sort of hybrid grip.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

I palm the ec2-a with 21 cm hands just fine.


----------



## Trippy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> If you intend to palm EC2-A with 20cm hands... then I wouldn't recommend it. I struggled to palm it with 18cm hands... but reason for that is prolly that my palm is quite small but fingers long. I suppose it could work with some sort of hybrid grip.


I'm thinking of buying one for use with a hybrid claw/palm grip my hands are 19.5cm and the claw part of my grip isn't very aggressive. Do you think it would work or would I be better off with the ec1-a?


----------



## mitavreb

^^ You can claw/palm both mice. Difference is the ec1-a will allow you to have more of your palm on the mouse while Ec2-a because it's short and lower the bottom of your palm will most likely be touching the mouse.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trippy*
> 
> I'm thinking of buying one for use with a hybrid claw/palm grip my hands are 19.5cm and the claw part of my grip isn't very aggressive. Do you think it would work or would I be better off with the ec1-a?


it will work, if you are in the US, Hit up amazon. If the 2-a doesn't work out then the 1-a is easy to get, plus the easy return policy.


----------



## Trippy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> it will work, if you are in the US, Hit up amazon. If the 2-a doesn't work out then the 1-a is easy to get, plus the easy return policy.


I am in the US. So there will be no issue returning it just because I don't like it or do I have to tell them something special?


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trippy*
> 
> I am in the US. So there will be no issue returning it just because I don't like it or do I have to tell them something special?


My hand hurts when using the mouse is a good excuse or something really trivial like "the red logo doesn't match my computer setup".


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trippy*
> 
> I am in the US. So there will be no issue returning it just because I don't like it or do I have to tell them something special?


You can just say it's defective. Lol or yea say it hurts your hand.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trippy*
> 
> I am in the US. So there will be no issue returning it just because I don't like it or do I have to tell them something special?


You don't really need an explanation. If you're within the warranty or return period, something as simple as "it just wasn't for me" is all you'll need to put down for reason for return. Once the ball gets rolling, your refund will eventually be issued once they get the mouse back. It takes forever though. Good luck!


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> If you intend to palm EC2-A with 20cm hands... then I wouldn't recommend it. I struggled to palm it with 18cm hands... but reason for that is prolly that my palm is quite small but fingers long. I suppose it could work with some sort of hybrid grip.


I used a DA since 2011, so I feel like that influenced my grip type. It's sort of fingertip, my palm isn't fully on the mouse, but it does touch. I tried it on the FinalMouse 2016 Ergo, and my thumb was only touching the very beginning of the indent. Really not sure what to call my grip, plus I haven't been on my Desktop PC in ~5 months, but here's a few pics I took months ago .

Deathadder pic I guess isn't an accurate representation since I'm lifting the mouse off the mousepad


----------



## drazah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trippy*
> 
> I am in the US. So there will be no issue returning it just because I don't like it or do I have to tell them something special?


I have same length hands, I also use a hybrid claw/palm grip sounding similar to yours. the EC2-A works perfect for me and personally if it were any bigger i think (for my grip) i would have to clutch my thumb harder to move it better horizontally to keep my hand in place.


----------



## ncck

Try the smaller one first, ec2

You can return them for full price on Amazon


----------



## VESPA5

If you love the DA, you may or may not like the way the EC2-A is shaped (even though the popular description is that it's a smaller DA). The hump in the back slopes at a somewhat steep angle. I actually had to really change my grip style to cater to the size. All this did is made me miss my DA and eventually got an EC1-A.


----------



## Trippy

I just got my EC2-A in from Amazon. I played CS for about an hour and so far I'm not sure if the size is right or not, it will probably take me a few days to figure that out. What I do know is I was fragging pretty well with it. I also like all the hardware on the mouse excluding the side button they are just meh (I knew they wouldn't be amazing before purchasing though). One thing that really surprised me though was how good the coating on the mouse feels it's very soft and it almost feels like grip tape for your hand. So far I'm very pleased and I have a feeling the ec1 might be too big for my grip so I'm glad I went with the ec2 first.


----------



## mitavreb

Good choice on the ec2-a. It's always better to buy a small mouse first because you can adjust your grip preferably.

Regarding the coating you must have gotten the benq version(red logo) because the zowie with the white logo had very slippery texture. I have to use some tennis overgrips just to hold it properly.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> If you love the DA, you may or may not like the way the EC2-A is shaped (even though the popular description is that it's a smaller DA). The hump in the back slopes at a somewhat steep angle. I actually had to really change my grip style to cater to the size. All this did is made me miss my DA and eventually got an EC1-A.


Not sure if you were responding to me or or not, but I went with the EC1-A. I already felt like the EC1-A was a tad bit narrow for my liking after using a DeathAdder 2013 for so long, so I didn't want to risk it. Last time I tried to use the EC1-A, I absolutely hated the sensor in comparison to the Deathadders 3988/3989. I haven't been on my PC in ~5 months or used my Deathadder in that time, so hopefully I can adjust to the EC1-A much easier now, since I don't want to use a Deathadder ever again due to them breaking so damn easily.

Only reason I was debating the EC2-A even with ~20cm hands, is I read the sensor placement is ideal on the EC2-A, and on the EC1-A it's not, and that could have had something to do with my disliking for it. Only other thing would be the framerate difference, which I doubt I would be able to feel since the difference is only at higher tracking speeds.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> Good choice on the ec2-a. It's always better to buy a small mouse first because you can adjust your grip preferably.
> 
> Regarding the coating you must have gotten the benq version(red logo) because the zowie with the white logo had very slippery texture. I have to use some tennis overgrips just to hold it properly.


Tennis overgrips on the sides? I've read a lot of people saying the white logo Zowie coating was superior.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Not sure if you were responding to me or or not, but I went with the EC1-A. I already felt like the EC1-A was a tad bit narrow for my liking after using a DeathAdder 2013 for so long, so I didn't want to risk it. Last time I tried to use the EC1-A, I absolutely hated the sensor in comparison to the Deathadders 3988/3989. I haven't been on my PC in ~5 months or used my Deathadder in that time, so hopefully I can adjust to the EC1-A much easier now, since I don't want to use a Deathadder ever again due to them breaking so damn easily.


I agree with you. The 3310 implementation of the EC1-A seems sluggish in comparison to the DA's 3389. What's odd is that my DA has taken a beating (multiple throws across the room) and keeps on ticking. I must've gotten a rare one. It outlasted my EC2-A (which I've had to take apart a few times because the Huano switches kept sticking and got stiffer with time). The thing about Zowie mice is that its main gimmick: softwareless/driverless - is also its weakness. Click and motion latency issues are addressed by buying the next mouse they release that improves on it.


----------



## ncck

The new benQ coatings are very grippy - that's one of the best parts.. not sure if some people don't like that kind of grip but it's very enjoyable... uhh but personally I'd just wait before getting a zowie when they jump on the 3360 train - maybe they'll make some internal improvements (I doubt it but maybe) so that'd probably be the best time to get one


----------



## Demi9OD

Has the sluggish motion 'feeling' that people have talked about here with the Zowie 3310 ever been quantified? I was playing around this weekend with a G402 and DM Pro S compared to my EC2-A. What I noticed is that small adjustments on the G402 and DM Pro S seem a lot snappier, but that's not necessarily a good thing. I tend to overshoot on small corrections with those two, while with the EC2 I can make those 50-100 pixel adjustments more easily. Conversely on the EC2 my tracking seems to lag behind just a bit on fast moving targets, but that could just be skill related.

Whether it is sensor implementation, position, or less likely the combination of low weight and low static friction, there is a difference, but I can't quantify it and that bothers me.


----------



## ncck

It's shape and mouse skate glide, anything else is in your head mostly - the 'actual' dpi value also can be a little different. Sensor position is 'meh' and the biggest difference I guess is that more forward sensors feel easier to move when only moving your wrist

Also using 500hz can make tiny movements feel a little easier, but not a super big difference


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Demi9OD*
> 
> Has the sluggish motion 'feeling' that people have talked about here with the Zowie 3310 ever been quantified? I was playing around this weekend with a G402 and DM Pro S compared to my EC2-A. What I noticed is that small adjustments on the G402 and DM Pro S seem a lot snappier, but that's not necessarily a good thing. I tend to overshoot on small corrections with those two, while with the EC2 I can make those 50-100 pixel adjustments more easily. Conversely on the EC2 my tracking seems to lag behind just a bit on fast moving targets, but that could just be skill related.
> 
> Whether it is sensor implementation, position, or less likely the combination of low weight and low static friction, there is a difference, but I can't quantify it and that bothers me.


It's been discussed in here before that the issue could be the much lower framerates (2,000, 4,000, & 6,500) and sensor placement, but I really don't know. I felt the same way when switching from a Deathadder 2013, it felt 'swamped' to me.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I agree with you. The 3310 implementation of the EC1-A seems sluggish in comparison to the DA's 3389. What's odd is that my DA has taken a beating (multiple throws across the room) and keeps on ticking. I must've gotten a rare one. It outlasted my EC2-A (which I've had to take apart a few times because the Huano switches kept sticking and got stiffer with time). The thing about Zowie mice is that its main gimmick: softwareless/driverless - is also its weakness. Click and motion latency issues are addressed by buying the next mouse they release that improves on it.


My DA 2013 lasted ~8 months before the little buffer piece in between the Mouse1 and the switch itself snapped, causing a rubbing noise when I click in certain places now. I got numerous DeathAdder Chroma's from my local BestBuy, they all had numerous issues, something I never experienced with the DeathAdder 2013 at all. Sounds like you got extremely lucky







I'm hoping I can just adjust to the EC1-A quickly since I haven't used my DeathAdder Chroma in months, so I won't be so used to the Avago 3989.


----------



## Trippy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> My DA 2013 lasted ~8 months before the little buffer piece in between the Mouse1 and the switch itself snapped, causing a rubbing noise when I click in certain places now. I got numerous DeathAdder Chroma's from my local BestBuy, they all had numerous issues, something I never experienced with the DeathAdder 2013 at all. Sounds like you got extremely lucky
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm hoping I can just adjust to the EC1-A quickly since I haven't used my DeathAdder Chroma in months, so I won't be so used to the Avago 3989.


I decided after I purchased the ec2-a that I was going to open my death adder and see if I could find the culprit of the double click. What I found was the clear piece on mouse 1 seemed to have a piece come off, I also found a black piece of plastic floating around in there. I'm not really surprised though as this was the mouse I would use when I played League of Legends. I have never raged harder than on that game. It felt as if I would slam my hands or my mouse down on the table at least once a game.


----------



## drazah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trippy*
> 
> I decided after I purchased the ec2-a that I was going to open my death adder and see if I could find the culprit of the double click. What I found was the clear piece on mouse 1 seemed to have a piece come off, I also found a black piece of plastic floating around in there. I'm not really surprised though as this was the mouse I would use when I played League of Legends. I have never raged harder than on that game. It felt as if I would slam my hands or my mouse down on the table at least once a game.


Greatest gaming decision I ever made was to uninstall and never play that game again (lol).


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drazah*
> 
> Greatest gaming decision I ever made was to uninstall and never play that game again (lol).


Lol. Everytime I uninstall Battlefield 4, usually within a few days, I'm reinstalling it (only an hour left before download is complete!)


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Trippy*
> 
> I decided after I purchased the ec2-a that I was going to open my death adder and see if I could find the culprit of the double click. What I found was the clear piece on mouse 1 seemed to have a piece come off, I also found a black piece of plastic floating around in there. I'm not really surprised though as this was the mouse I would use when I played League of Legends. I have never raged harder than on that game. It felt as if I would slam my hands or my mouse down on the table at least once a game.


Did you have a rubbing type feeling when clicking mouse 1 in certain areas? I think it might be the same piece, although I'm not sure if it's the small circular piece, or the one that is like a flathead towards the end of it.


----------



## Trippy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Did you have a rubbing type feeling when clicking mouse 1 in certain areas? I think it might be the same piece, although I'm not sure if it's the small circular piece, or the one that is like a flathead towards the end of it.


Not that I can recall, the clicks felt the same no matter where I pressed.


----------



## agsz

Got my new Zowie BenQ EC1-A from RMA, everything is good. I'm curious why they include that plastic sheet with the adhesive covering the mousefeet, rather than a small oval sheet that just covers the sensor, since I assume that is the main purpose of it. Worst case scenario for customers, is if the mice are stored in a humid room/warehouse whether it's retail or during the transportation process, that plastic sheet will leave goo all over the mousefeet.


----------



## agsz

Any EC1-A/EC2-A users going to try out the Logitech G403? Looks pretty similar, dimensions are:
*Physical specifications*
Height: 124 mm
Width: 68 mm
Depth: 43 mm
Weight: 87.3 g mouse only+10g (optional weight)
Cable Length (Power/Charging): 2.13 M


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Any EC1-A/EC2-A users going to try out the Logitech G403? Looks pretty similar, dimensions are:
> *Physical specifications*
> Height: 124 mm
> Width: 68 mm
> Depth: 43 mm
> Weight: 87.3 g mouse only+10g (optional weight)
> Cable Length (Power/Charging): 2.13 M


Yes, I'm going to try the g403 and if I don't care for it then the g pro - and if I somehow don't care for that then I'll wait for a new SS rival assuming it's not a disaster.. if all of those fail then I'll probably just cry and quit gaming

G403 appears to be an in-between the ec1 and ec2 with better components so it should be pretty nice.. just upset we have to wait so long for it to ship while people who don't use mousepads got it a month early to write a garbage review


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Yes, I'm going to try the g403 and if I don't care for it then the g pro - and if I somehow don't care for that then I'll wait for a new SS rival assuming it's not a disaster.. if all of those fail then I'll probably just cry and quit gaming
> 
> G403 appears to be an in-between the ec1 and ec2 with better components so it should be pretty nice.. just upset we have to wait so long for it to ship while people who don't use mousepads got it a month early to write a garbage review


New SteelSeries Rival, wut? My local BestBuy stopped carrying the DeathAdder Chroma, is there any news of a new DeathAdder coming out? Would make sense for Razer to keep up with other releases.


----------



## Shogoki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Yes, I'm going to try the g403 and if I don't care for it then the g pro - and if I somehow don't care for that then I'll wait for a new SS rival assuming it's not a disaster.. if all of those fail then I'll probably just cry and quit gaming
> 
> G403 appears to be an in-between the ec1 and ec2 with better components so it should be pretty nice.. just upset we have to wait so long for it to ship while people who don't use mousepads got it a month early to write a garbage review


No worries, Rocket Jump Ninja will review it soon.


----------



## mitavreb

Definitely buying the g403 when it becomes available in stores but I'm still worried about the length.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> Definitely buying the g403 when it becomes available in stores but I'm still worried about the length.


In regards to it being too short or to long? 124mm seems pretty good for the most part.


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> In regards to it being too short or to long? 124mm seems pretty good for the most part.


Short.

I don't want just the tip of my ring finger holding the front side of the mouse because the front curves out like in the ec1-a and it's akward to hold.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m4gg0t*
> 
> I can use the EC2A well in games, but it just feel slower compaired to my FK. Like the tracking is not as smooth or something. The shapes alright, but not really to my liking. And the really high difference in the click feeling puts me off.


For me the sensor implementation feels superior on FK/ZA series than in EC-A and that could be just cause of the sensor position being a bit higher on FK/ZA series. I'd love to use my FK1... but the scrollwheel is broken, and I'm tired of trying to RMA it cause it feels like I keep getting the same mouse with yet again another broken scroll wheel. I miss the old yellow logo ones. Had like 0 issues and the coating felt much nicer than BenQ one.


----------



## agsz

Is the new coating on the Zowie BenQ models worse than the white logo Zowie models, in terms of quality? I got my new one ~2 weeks ago, used it for maybe 2-3 hours total, and it looks horrible. Obviously looks mean nothing, but it appears as if the coating wears down from the tiniest amount of perspiration.


----------



## Vikhr

Coating on my Benq EC2 appears to be identical to the one on my white logo EC1. Maybe earlier white logo batches had a different coating, I have an older FK1 with a more grainy feeling coating like a Deathadder Chroma.


----------



## nokill

Has anyone tried to get rid of some of the weight of the EC1-A yet?
I like the shape but it's just way too heavy, so shaving off something like 15-20g would be quite nice if possible.


----------



## drewno

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nokill*
> 
> Has anyone tried to get rid of some of the weight of the EC1-A yet?
> I like the shape but it's just way too heavy, so shaving off something like 15-20g would be quite nice if possible.


I cut some internal parts of mouse shell with hot screwdriver, succesful operation ended up with 1-2g lower weight.
Still too heavy :S


----------



## drazah

I dont like the coating on the EC2-A, super slick and wish there were atleast 1 grip near thumb. Gonna use griptape on mine


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vikhr*
> 
> Coating on my Benq EC2 appears to be identical to the one on my white logo EC1. Maybe earlier white logo batches had a different coating, I have an older FK1 with a more grainy feeling coating like a Deathadder Chroma.


The coating looks the same on both, from what I can recall about the white logo Zowie EC1-A that I had, but it seems to wear down extremely quickly on the Zowie BenQ models. I grabbed some pictures from a Rocket Jump Ninja video to compare the two,


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> In regards to it being too short or to long? 124mm seems pretty good for the most part.


My EC1-A is 128mm in length. And if the G403 is only 4mm shorter, that's still a medium/large length for a mouse. Then again, the G403's shape is very "EC1-A-like" and if my G Pro's sides are too annoying for me to use that mouse, I may go for a G403.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> My EC1-A is 128mm in length. And if the G403 is only 4mm shorter, that's still a medium/large length for a mouse. Then again, the G403's shape is very "EC1-A-like" and if my G Pro's sides are too annoying for me to use that mouse, I may go for a G403.


Do you think that it will be noticeable, being 4mm shorter than the Zowie EC1-A & Deathadder's? Also, not sure if the 'Depth = 43mm' is the peak height of the hump or not.

Figured I'd put these specs here for others to compare.

*Logitech G403*
*Length*: 124mm
*Width*: 68mm
*Depth*: 43mm
*Weight*: 87.3 g mouse only +10g (optional weight)
*Cable Length* (Power/Charging): 2.13 M (7 feet)

*Zowie BenQ EC1-A // EC2-A*
*Length*: 128mm *//* 120mm
*Width*: 69mm *//* 64mm
*Depth*: 43mm *//* 40mm
*Weight*: 97g *//* 93g
*Cable Length*: 2m (6.6 feet)

*Razer DeathAdder Chroma*
*Length*: 127mm
*Width*: 70mm
*Depth*: 44mm
*Weight*: 105g
*Cable Length*: 7 feet


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Do you think that it will be noticeable, being 4mm shorter than the Zowie EC1-A & Deathadder's? Also, not sure if the 'Depth = 43mm' is the peak height of the hump or not.
> 
> Figured I'd put these specs here for others to compare.
> 
> *Logitech G403*
> *Length*: 124mm
> *Width*: 68mm
> *Depth*: 43mm
> *Weight*: 87.3 g mouse only +10g (optional weight)
> *Cable Length* (Power/Charging): 2.13 M (7 feet)
> 
> *Zowie BenQ EC1-A // EC2-A*
> *Length*: 128mm *//* 120mm
> *Width*: 64mm *//* 61mm
> *Depth*: 43mm *//* 40mm
> *Weight*: 97g *//* 93g
> *Cable Length*: 2m (6.6 feet)
> 
> *Razer DeathAdder Chroma*
> *Length*: 127mm
> *Width*: 70mm
> *Depth*: 44mm
> *Weight*: 105g
> *Cable Length*: 7 feet


Yea you messed up the Ec1-a is 128x64(grip width)69(widest point)x43. Yes that 43 is the highest point on the hump.

4 MM shorter in length will be noticeable yes but adjusting should not be hard at all as long as it is still comfortable. OR you just force your hand to adjust by constantly using it(committing lol). The EC1 is the most comfortable mouse I have ever put my hands on, if the 403 is even close to having that type of feel once I put a paw on it I'd be happy.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Yea you messed up the Ec1-a is 128x64(grip width)69(widest point)x43. Yes that 43 is the highest point on the hump.
> 
> 4 MM shorter in length will be noticeable yes but adjusting should not be hard at all as long as it is still comfortable. OR you just force your hand to adjust by constantly using it(committing lol). The EC1 is the most comfortable mouse I have ever put my hands on, if the 403 is even close to having that type of feel once I put a paw on it I'd be happy.


Oops fixed it. The G403 kind of looks like the EC1-A + FinalMouse combined in a way, or maybe not, I can't describe what combination of mice it looks like


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Oops fixed it. The G403 kind of looks like the EC1-A + FinalMouse combined in a way, or maybe not, I can't describe what combination of mice it looks like


Looks like the EC I agree, which we know is inspired by the 3.0. Nice to see Logitech try the shape.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Looks like the EC I agree, which we know is inspired by the 3.0. Nice to see Logitech try the shape.


Yeah, this G403 looks great, probably the only mouse I've been excited over trying in the last year or so. Curious how Logitech's mousewheels are, the one on the G403 looks a bit odd.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Yeah, this G403 looks great, probably the only mouse I've been excited over trying in the last year or so. Curious how Logitech's mousewheels are, the one on the G403 looks a bit odd.


W/E it is, it will be better than the Zowie scroll.....lol


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Yea you messed up the Ec1-a is 128x64(grip width)69(widest point)x43. Yes that 43 is the highest point on the hump.
> 
> 4 MM shorter in length will be noticeable yes but adjusting should not be hard at all as long as it is still comfortable. OR you just force your hand to adjust by constantly using it(committing lol). The EC1 is the most comfortable mouse I have ever put my hands on, if the 403 is even close to having that type of feel once I put a paw on it I'd be happy.


I think one more thing that's going to be noticeable is the narrower rear base compared to the ec1-a. It will probably be easier to place the palm on the g403. The ec1-a's bottom sides curve outward and it makes the mouse feel big.

For ec1-a users switching to the g403, we'll probably have to bend our fingers more because of the shorter length.


----------



## SynergyCB

Recently switched from the G Pro back to my EC2-A. EC2 shape is perfect for me, but damn do these side buttons and scroll wheel suck lol. Im guessing Zowie wont do another EC revision until 2017. Hopefully a EC2 with 3366 sensor, better side buttons and scroll wheel in the next revision.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynergyCB*
> 
> Recently switched from the G Pro back to my EC2-A. EC2 shape is perfect for me, but damn do these side buttons and scroll wheel suck lol. Im guessing Zowie wont do another EC revision until 2017. Hopefully a EC2 with 3366 sensor, better side buttons and scroll wheel in the next revision.


Wouldn't they have to modify the shape to change the side buttons? I'd love an EC1-A with a 3988/3989 or 3360/3366, the 3310 feels like crap in the EC1-A.


----------



## SynergyCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Wouldn't they have to modify the shape to change the side buttons? I'd love an EC1-A with a 3988/3989 or 3360/3366, the 3310 feels like crap in the EC1-A.


To be honest, Im not sure. The buttons themselves are fine, just want Zowie to reduce the travel distance needed to actuate


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Wouldn't they have to modify the shape to change the side buttons? I'd love an EC1-A with a 3988/3989 or 3360/3366, the 3310 feels like crap in the EC1-A.


I feel the same way about the 3310 in the ec1-a. I don't wanna say it's horrible but it doesn't feel responsive enough esp. for small movements like recoil control in csgo.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> I feel the same way about the 3310 in the ec1-a. I don't wanna say it's horrible but it doesn't feel responsive enough esp. for small movements like recoil control in csgo.


Lots of solid players use the ec so idk what to really tell you there.


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Lots of solid players use the ec so idk what to really tell you there.


It's just feels different than a 3366.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> It's just feels different than a 3366.


Maybe the 3310 just doesn't work for you, could be sensitive to it's smoothing that others bring up.

Is it that way with other 3310's for you?


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Maybe the 3310 just doesn't work for you, could be sensitive to it's smoothing that others bring up.
> 
> Is it that way with other 3310's for you?


Kinda. The Mionix 7k I was using also had that smoothing. I didn't wanna believe about smoothing at first but I think it's part of the 3310. It's something you either get used to it or not. If I never tried a 3366 I would've been happy with the 3310.

I even prefer the feeling of the sensor in my xornet than 3310.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> I feel the same way about the 3310 in the ec1-a. I don't wanna say it's horrible but it doesn't feel responsive enough esp. for small movements like recoil control in csgo.


I dunno, that's a subjective statement of course. I own an EC1-A and it's a pretty responsive mouse. Perhaps your mouse pad might have something to do with it? I know when I switched from a Glorious PC Gaming Race pad to a Goliathus Speed Mat, my EC1-A felt like it jumped up a few notches in CPI (ex: 800 CPI felt like 820+ on my Goliathus).

Overall, I think the EC series are great mice. There's a reason why pros still use them despite all the 'tests' regarding click and motion latency.


----------



## spinFX

Had a bit of a feel of an EC-1A at a mates house. It will be the replacement to my Deathadder pretty soon. Great feeling mouse, size, shape, weight ( a little lighter than the deathadder? ) and the sensor feels the same as the deathadder.


----------



## agsz

Does this look like a glossy coating to anyone else? Resolution is kinda poop


----------



## SynergyCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Does this look like a glossy coating to anyone else? Resolution is kinda poop


Looks like a mix between bright lights and oil from his hands and fingers.


----------



## m0uz

Looks like he's just finished choking the lubed up chicken


----------



## Argowashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Does this look like a glossy coating to anyone else? Resolution is kinda poop


Wow that is one filthy mouse. My EC2-A never got that bad.


----------



## agsz

I wasn't sure because it's a crap pic from his website, and I know Zowie makes special coatings for certain players, like coldzera's Silver ZA12. I wasn't even aware that the Zowie BenQ coating could reflect


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Does this look like a glossy coating to anyone else? Resolution is kinda poop


Lol sheesh some miles have been put on that thing.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Lol sheesh you have put some miles on her.


I think FalleN's had that mouse since IEM Katowice or so, since he used a DeathAdder 2013 prior to the EC1-A.


----------



## agsz

Was browsing through FalleN's site, and he's selling the $5 Meco Bungee for $20 and slaps a sticker on it..


----------



## DarthBaggins

Must be expensive to print and place a sticker lol


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarthBaggins*
> 
> Must be expensive to print and place a sticker lol


I'm not sure if the currency conversion is correct via Google, but it comes out to ~$17 without shipping, for a bungee that costs $5 on Amazon. He probably gets them from China via Taobao/Alibaba for $1 each or something. It's just funny how he's considered an upstanding guy, and people praise him, yet takes advantage of his fanbase like this.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Where i am from that's what ****** do.


----------



## SynergyCB

I heard he's going to make his own mouse. inb4 its just a Zowie EC1 clone with his Fallen logo instead of the Zowie logo.


----------



## m0uz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Where i am from that's what ****** do.


----------



## Maximillion

Turned a 4 to a 7, this is why I'm hot!


----------



## Hunched

It's odd how these random small companies like Nixeus and Dream Machines release mice with the 3360 as soon as possible.
I would think Zowie and other big names would be just as prepared to step up and compete with Logitech's 3366.
Surprised they're going to take their time, it's like they don't want more money.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> It's odd how these random small companies like Nixeus and Dream Machines release mice with the 3360 as soon as possible.
> I would think Zowie and other big names would be just as prepared to step up and compete with Logitech's 3366.
> Surprised they're going to take their time, it's like they don't want more money.


Well they wanted to come with some quick heat. Which they did so. Zowie is more established so they can take time to do so. Sit back & see how everyone drops their 3360 mice, see how it goes then come with your new line up.

Zowie is still selling despite not having the 3360 in their mice yet. So maybe they just feel like 'why rush it?'.

They have some known changes many would like with softer better all around buttons. Improved scroll. As long as they address those things, i am fine with them taking time. If they just drop all the shells with just the 3360 inside, & we waited for just that. Then i'd be pissed.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Ah, the "useless lazy pothead" approach to business.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Well they wanted to come with some quick heat. Which they did so. Zowie is more established so they can take time to do so. Sit back & see how everyone drops their 3360 mice, see how it goes then come with your new line up.
> 
> Zowie is still selling despite not having the 3360 in their mice yet. So maybe they just feel like 'why rush it?'.
> 
> They have some known changes many would like with softer better all around buttons. Improved scroll. As long as they address those things, i am fine with them taking time. If they just drop all the shells with just the 3360 inside, & we waited for just that. Then i'd be pissed.


Hopefully they get rid of that god awful 10 year old MCU that are in their mice this time around as well, I swear a 3310 w/ a Holtek MCU and MCU based smoothing feels better than Zowie's 3310 mice.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Hopefully they get rid of that god awful 10 year old MCU that are in their mice this time around as well, I swear a 3310 w/ a Holtek MCU and MCU based smoothing feels better than Zowie's 3310 mice.


I am gonna bet on them improving the mice all around, could be very very wrong. However no one saw the g pro or g403 really coming like they did, Logitech certainly isn't bs'ing. Hope Zowie/Q see's it as we do here in the community & they get on the ball & genuinely upgrade their line & don't lazily do it. They have the $ behind them, so really what is the excuse.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> I am gonna bet on them improving the mice all around, could be very very wrong. However no one saw the g pro or g403 really coming like they did, Logitech certainly isn't bs'ing. Hope Zowie/Q see's it as we do here in the community & they get on the ball & genuinely upgrade their line & don't lazily do it. They have the $ behind them, so really what is the excuse.


I'm expecting them to keep using the 10 year old MCU because "Why change what isn't broken guys







!!"


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I'm expecting them to keep using the 10 year old MCU because "Why change what isn't broken guys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> !!"


They are gonna cut corners somewhere lol


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Was browsing through FalleN's site, and he's selling the $5 Meco Bungee for $20 and slaps a sticker on it..


FinalMouse finesse.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> FinalMouse finesse.


He could of at least put the sticker over the 'Mouse Bungee' engraving


----------



## drazah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> FinalMouse finesse.


Lol thats pretty funny, but a lot of csgo fanboys will buy it. Thats the exact one that i use (the $3 one from ebay) and it works perfect for me though. I play high sensitivity and it keeps the mouse cord completely off my mousepad.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drazah*
> 
> Lol thats pretty funny, but a lot of csgo fanboys will buy it. Thats the exact one that i use (the $3 one from ebay) and it works perfect for me though. I play high sensitivity and it keeps the mouse cord completely off my mousepad.


It's kind of sad that people do crap like that, especially at a 400% markup from Amazon price, no idea what he pays to get it in bulk from Taobao/Aliexpress/Alibaba.

What do you guys use to clean your Zowie BenQ mice, that removes the sweat marks and doesn't rip off the fragile coating?


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> What do you guys use to clean your Zowie BenQ mice, that removes the sweat marks and doesn't rip off the fragile coating?


I use 99% isopropyl alcohol on everything except my monitor, which I use distilled water on.


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> I use 99% isopropyl alcohol on everything except my monitor, which I use distilled water on.


And that hasn't ripped the coating off your Zowie BenQ mouse? I used that on my white logo Zowie EC1-A (alcohol wipes), and the coating was fine, but the new coating on Zowie BenQ mice seems far too fragile for Isopropyl.

If you do have a Zowie BenQ mouse, could you upload some pics of how it looks post-cleaning? Thanks.


----------



## SynergyCB

I usually just wipe my EC2-A with a microfiber cloth. This SoCal heat makes my hands sweat a lot.


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> And that hasn't ripped the coating off your Zowie BenQ mouse? I used that on my white logo Zowie EC1-A (alcohol wipes), and the coating was fine, but the new coating on Zowie BenQ mice seems far too fragile for Isopropyl.
> 
> If you do have a Zowie BenQ mouse, could you upload some pics of how it looks post-cleaning? Thanks.


I haven't had my EC2-A terribly long so I've only done it once or twice, it's fine so far.
Water would work fine, just takes a little bit more effort to clean with of course.


----------



## DarthBaggins

I've always just used microfiber cloths to clean my mice


----------



## agsz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarthBaggins*
> 
> I've always just used microfiber cloths to clean my mice


Do you wet it or anything first? Microfiber is ideal, but a dry one won't remove all the sweat marks that seems to appear from just touching the mouse gently.


----------



## DarthBaggins

Normally it's dry, but I'm normally not completely gentle wiping it down


----------



## samxkim

Does anyone by chance know how many grams a Zowie cable weighs? I don't have a weight scale







.


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

https://www.twitch.tv/tarik/v/93089947?t=2h00m40s

"EC1-SA"

Leak or just a mistake? You be the judge


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oh wow Secret Cow*
> 
> https://www.twitch.tv/tarik/v/93089947?t=2h00m40s
> 
> "EC1-SA"
> 
> Leak or just a mistake? You be the judge


It's a mistake, he was using the EC2-A earlier in the stream and even showed the boxes.


----------



## Oh wow Secret Cow

I'm talking about what Desi was saying over comms.

Desi: "The EC1-SA?"
Tarik: "The EC1 dash A"
Desi: "Oh, you should try the SA"

Kinda made it sound like a new line.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oh wow Secret Cow*
> 
> I'm talking about what Desi was saying over comms.
> 
> Desi: "The EC1-SA?"
> Tarik: "The EC1 dash A"
> Desi: "Oh, you should try the SA"
> 
> Kinda made it sound like a new line.


Yeah sounds like a mistake, but who knows, Zowie did just start selling refurb'd/discounted mice for the first time in a long time (first ever for refurbs afaik) so for all we know, they could be trying to sell off the rest of their stock to bring in a new 3360 lineup, but if we go by Zowie's history then they're probably just gonna wait for the 3310 to EOL before putting the 3360 into their mice.


----------



## Hunched

I'd like to think we're going to see 3360's and all across improvements thanks to the BenQ money, that all this quiet time was spent improving everything and the most recent iterations were simply rushed out so they could sell mice with the BenQ name on the side.

We'll probably just get the bare minimum possible though. We need a Noctua or Sennheiser level of quality company making mice so I can have something good.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> I'd like to think we're going to see 3360's and all across improvements thanks to the BenQ money, that all this quiet time was spent improving everything and the most recent iterations were simply rushed out so they could sell mice with the BenQ name on the side.


Its all about Ballet and Skateboarding.


----------



## ncck

Didn't sound like an accident, probably a new line being tested by them. I'm still waiting for a retail to hold the EC2 so I can physically hold it and see if it could possibly be better than the eC1 shape for me


----------



## Zakman

Hopefully it is a new line. Don't think replacing the 3310 with the 3360 would be enough to replace the current series. There's a lot of stuff wrong with the EC line-up and it's borderline stealing charging £50 for them.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zakman*
> 
> Hopefully it is a new line. Don't think replacing the 3310 with the 3360 would be enough to replace the current series. There's a lot of stuff wrong with the EC line-up and it's borderline stealing charging £50 for them.


A lot wrong?? Such as what??

If they fix the scroll wheel as they should, less actuation force on the side buttons, drop the 3360 inside.

Mouse 1&2 improved(some dislike, some love/like them).

What is 'a lot wrong' pertaining to the ec series? The shapes for the series is damn good & it sales like such.

Borderline stealing charging such prices?? SS, Razer, Logitech, ESPECIALLY FINALMOUSE. All of them overcharge.


----------



## Zakman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> A lot wrong?? Such as what??
> 
> If they fix the scroll wheel as they should, less actuation force on the side buttons, drop the 3360 inside.
> 
> Mouse 1&2 improved(some dislike, some love/like them).
> 
> What is 'a lot wrong' pertaining to the ec series? The shapes for the series is damn good & it sales like such.
> 
> Borderline stealing charging such prices?? SS, Razer, Logitech, ESPECIALLY FINALMOUSE. All of them overcharge.


Apart from the shape, I can't see what else they've done right.

Considering it's a £50 mouse, it has poor side buttons, a poor scroll wheel, meh clicks (would like them to separate M1&2 from shell) which are good for shooters but not so great for casual browsing and probably poor for MOBAs. I really don't like the way they've implemented the 3310 too, I instantly felt a difference between Zowie's 3310 and my QPAD 8K's 3310. The mouse comes with no software too which is a brilliant marketing technique for those with lower-end Razer mice; after experiencing Synapse with my Abyssus I only wanted a mouse with no software, but having experienced mice with decent software I don't see a reason why Zowie don't have their own.

Having said all that, my daily driver's an EC2-A. Shape's the best I've had and it's nothing revolutionary, it is a basic shape and I just feel a bit ripped off paying £50 for it when the only thing it's good at is the shape. I guess it's good for Zowie that the shape just so happens to be the most important feature of a mouse for most gamers.


----------



## drazah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zakman*
> 
> Apart from the shape, I can't see what else they've done right.
> 
> Considering it's a £50 mouse, it has poor side buttons, a poor scroll wheel, meh clicks (would like them to separate M1&2 from shell) which are good for shooters but not so great for casual browsing and probably poor for MOBAs. I really don't like the way they've implemented the 3310 too, I instantly felt a difference between Zowie's 3310 and my QPAD 8K's 3310. The mouse comes with no software too which is a brilliant marketing technique for those with lower-end Razer mice; after experiencing Synapse with my Abyssus I only wanted a mouse with no software, but having experienced mice with decent software I don't see a reason why Zowie don't have their own.
> 
> Having said all that, my daily driver's an EC2-A. Shape's the best I've had and it's nothing revolutionary, it is a basic shape and I just feel a bit ripped off paying £50 for it when the only thing it's good at is the shape. I guess it's good for Zowie that the shape just so happens to be the most important feature of a mouse for most gamers.


I think thats the main reason they can sell at that price and still sell a good amount. Shape is definitely the most important thing. I currently use an EC2-A and absolutely love the shape for when Im actually gaming but find it not very comfortable for just browsing and normal use. I don't have an issue with the clicks and I actually like the side buttons, they feel very satisfying to me. I do however dislike the scroll wheel and sensor. Ultimately I probably would have been better off getting the EC1-A for my bigger hands but even then I think I am going to continue looking for something more all around.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zakman*
> 
> Apart from the shape, I can't see what else they've done right.
> 
> Considering it's a £50 mouse, it has poor side buttons, a poor scroll wheel, meh clicks (would like them to separate M1&2 from shell) which are good for shooters but not so great for casual browsing and probably poor for MOBAs. I really don't like the way they've implemented the 3310 too, I instantly felt a difference between Zowie's 3310 and my QPAD 8K's 3310. The mouse comes with no software too which is a brilliant marketing technique for those with lower-end Razer mice; after experiencing Synapse with my Abyssus I only wanted a mouse with no software, but having experienced mice with decent software I don't see a reason why Zowie don't have their own.
> 
> Having said all that, my daily driver's an EC2-A. Shape's the best I've had and it's nothing revolutionary, it is a basic shape and I just feel a bit ripped off paying £50 for it when the only thing it's good at is the shape. I guess it's good for Zowie that the shape just so happens to be the most important feature of a mouse for most gamers.


Shape is first. They got that down, 1&2's can vary as i said, some like them(me & drazah for example)while others(you) do not. I also have no issue with the side buttons while others do, that is a change i am fine with. The scroll is meh...it's no titan wheel that's for sure. The reason you want the buttons seperated from shell is?? They can improve & better the buttons without seperating them from the shell. That is if they do it correctly.

However, straying from their norm & segmenting the buttons would be nice to see. Means they are trying something different. As long as they don't screw it up i do not see it as a negative change at all.

Sensor implementation yes. They use a 10 year old dusty MCU(thanks Alya...see i'm larning). My issue with the sensor on my ec1-a was the much lower dpi than what was stated. Ec2-a i have no issue.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drazah*
> 
> I think thats the main reason they can sell at that price and still sell a good amount. Shape is definitely the most important thing. I currently use an EC2-A and absolutely love the shape for when Im actually gaming but find it not very comfortable for just browsing and normal use. I don't have an issue with the clicks and I actually like the side buttons, they feel very satisfying to me. I do however dislike the scroll wheel and sensor. Ultimately I probably would have been better off getting the EC1-A for my bigger hands but even then I think I am going to continue looking for something more all around.


I am hoping they spit out some glossy versions like they had prior. I'm sick of seeing straight up black mice. Gimme some variation or something.

I have no issue with casual browsing with my ec2-a, when i use a mouse it's for everything. I take the Sum'B i t c h with me to work as well for my browsing on the pc.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> They use a 10 year old dusty MCU(thanks Alya...see i'm larning).


Quote:


> *i'm larning*












Also, I found out about the age of the MCU because of the one and only woll3, I may or may not stalk him on Reddit...


----------



## drazah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Shape is first. They got that down, 1&2's can vary as i said, some like them(me & drazah for example)while others(you) do not. I also have no issue with the side buttons while others do, that is a change i am fine with. The scroll is meh...it's no titan wheel that's for sure. The reason you want the buttons seperated from shell is?? They can improve & better the buttons without seperating them from the shell. That is if they do it correctly.
> 
> However, straying from their norm & segmenting the buttons would be nice to see. Means they are trying something different. As long as they don't screw it up i do not see it as a negative change at all.
> 
> Sensor implementation yes. They use a 10 year old dusty MCU(thanks Alya...see i'm larning). My issue with the sensor on my ec1-a was the much lower dpi than what was stated. Ec2-a i have no issue.
> I am hoping they spit out some glossy versions like they had prior. I'm sick of seeing straight up black mice. Gimme some variation or something.
> 
> I have no issue with casual browsing with my ec2-a, when i use a mouse it's for everything. I take the Sum'B i t c h with me to work as well for my browsing on the pc.


Honestly, I think im going to do this before I finally decide on if i want to get rid of it or not. Im IT professionally also and use a much different kind of mouse there and typically the whole work day. Im going to start using my zowie for everything and see if I adjust so my hands dont cramp.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I found out about the age of the MCU because of the one and only woll3, I may or may not stalk him on Reddit...


It was supposed to be a joke..get it? I was blind before...but now can see...get it? Si? No? Aww fugg it i tried. Lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drazah*
> 
> Honestly, I think im going to do this before I finally decide on if i want to get rid of it or not. Im IT professionally also and use a much different kind of mouse there and typically the whole work day. Im going to start using my zowie for everything and see if I adjust so my hands dont cramp.


I just aim booster at work, especially on the weekends when i am working rentals for my city building.


----------



## Zakman

Hmm, dude from BenQ confirmed no plans as of yet to move to the 3360.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zakman*
> 
> Hmm, dude from BenQ confirmed no plans as of yet to move to the 3360.


I wouldn't expect it until q2 2017. Just a guess. Can you ask whoever you spoke to if it's coming to retail? Really want to use the ec2 in hand to compare.


----------



## queerquirks

Retail stores in my country have started selling the benq zowie mice on a ~$20 discount. Maybe a newer batch of improved qc coming soon?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *queerquirks*
> 
> Retail stores in my country have started selling the benq zowie mice on a ~$20 discount. Maybe a newer batch of improved qc coming soon?


Are they already using the benQ version? If not that would just mean they're getting that stock


----------



## DarthBaggins

Wonder how well my EC1-A would be if they were to put the 3988 sensor in it?


----------



## maxvons

Hey, guys. Im currently using the EC1 eVo CL and I couldnt imagine using any other mouse shape. I saw that the EC1-A had some problems with one of the mouse buttons grinding on the middle thing between them? Because of too little clearance or something. Has this been fixed?


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> Hey, guys. Im currently using the EC1 eVo CL and I couldnt imagine using any other mouse shape. I saw that the EC1-A had some problems with one of the mouse buttons grinding on the middle thing between them? Because of too little clearance or something. Has this been fixed?


I haven't had an issue with that problem. It' doesn't occur that often from my readings. Every mouse has some QC issues here and there, or more for some brands. You should
Be A-ok if you decide to pick an ec1-a up.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> I haven't had an issue with that problem. It' doesn't occur that often from my readings. Every mouse has some QC issues here and there, or more for some brands. You should
> Be A-ok if you decide to pick an ec1-a up.


I will definitely pick up the newest version of it when my eVo CL breaks down. Either that or the Logitech G403. Looks like quite a similar shape, but nicer sensor and features


----------



## queerquirks

Just got my ec2a in the mail and it feels good but slightly too wide, coming from a kpm









For the side buttons, there's the stated pre-travel of ~1mm to fully depress. However, mine actuates at approx 0.5mm with the tactile click, is this common for all?
Side buttons actuation feels pretty similar to the kpm, just not as sturdy or sound as clicky.

Is there any software to change/fake the dpi for windows mode only, used to 2200 dpi for desktop work. Something like x-mouse buttons to bind key shortcuts but for dpi scaling. Scrolling too, if you all have recommendations. Thanks!


----------



## maxvons

Anyone know which replacement mouse feet are the best for a Zowie EC1 eVo CL?

Would these work? http://www.ebay.com/itm/122175095808?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=422414304763&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


----------



## ncck

You can just buy the official skates from zowiedirect, same dimensions - no need to use 3rd party if you like the stock ones


----------



## DarthBaggins

A spare set came w/ my EC1-A, and was able to snag an extra set from a RTV'd (return to vendor/bad) unit


----------



## R432

Finally bought EC2-A and i think shape/size is superb! maybe the best i tried, clicks are fine to no problems with them, not good as some Logitech clicks but certainly i like em better than Rival or Deathadder. Scroll wheel makes awfull noise when scrollin up or down and iam using 800 dpi so i have to stick with purple color which is quite meh. I think i will use this for while


----------



## Wovermars1996

Got my EC2-A today.
Easily the mouse I aim best with. Went from around 30% accuracy to 65% accuracy with Mcree in Overwatch.
Looking forward to the next revision especially if it comes with a 3360 and better construction.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wovermars1996*
> 
> Got my EC2-A today.
> Easily the mouse I aim best with. Went from around 30% accuracy to 65% accuracy with Mcree in Overwatch.
> Looking forward to the next revision especially if it comes with a 3360 and better construction.


Glad you like it. It is by far one of the best mice I've ever used. It does have its drawbacks for players like me who have hands that do not get sweaty, which results in me having a damp towel nearby to keep my fingertips moist just so I can hold the damn thing. Also, I do a lot of tap firing and after a while, the stiff clicks do a number on my fingers and my hand starts cramping up. Sadly enough, the companies that I've bought a bunch of mice from that have given me the most QC headaches is Logitech and... Benq/Zowie


----------



## Wovermars1996

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Glad you like it. It is by far one of the best mice I've ever used. It does have its drawbacks for players like me who have hands that do not get sweaty, which results in me having a damp towel nearby to keep my fingertips moist just so I can hold the damn thing. Also, I do a lot of tap firing and after a while, the stiff clicks do a number on my fingers and my hand starts cramping up. Sadly enough, the companies that I've bought a bunch of mice from that have given me the most QC headaches is Logitech and... Benq/Zowie


I always have a microfiber cloth nearby








And I've had a lot of QC issues with Zowie as well. Both of the EC1-A that I've gotten have been absolutely dreadful. Really hope the next revision ones are better in build quality considering their costs.


----------



## Wovermars1996

Looking at replacing the stock mouse feet with something better on my Ec2-a.
Was wondering about Hyperglides compared to hotline games.


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wovermars1996*
> 
> Looking at replacing the stock mouse feet with something better on my Ec2-a.
> Was wondering about Hyperglides compared to hotline games.


I've owned both for my Zowie Ec2. Hyperglide are by far the best mouseskates I've used.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wovermars1996*
> 
> Looking at replacing the stock mouse feet with something better on my Ec2-a.
> Was wondering about Hyperglides compared to hotline games.


I might be the rare minority here, but I actually found no issues or problems using the stock feet for my EC2-A. Other glaring problems like my right Huano switch mysteriously sticking was more of an issue for me than the mouse feet.


----------



## -IIToRII-

So which pollingrate do u guys / girls like to use: 500hz or 1000hz









I'am going back and forth on which mouse I prefers the most: G403 or Zowie Ec2-a
G403 feels faster in the button's
Ec-2a better shape (smaller grip) and i feel that i aim better with it butt lack that instant action when I press m1


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-IIToRII-*
> 
> So which pollingrate do u guys / girls like to use: 500hz or 1000hz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'am going back and forth on which mouse I prefers the most: G403 or Zowie Ec2-a
> G403 feels faster in the button's
> Ec-2a better shape (smaller grip) and i feel that i aim better with it butt lack that instant action when I press m1


Not using zowie mice at the moment.. but my preferred polling rate is 500hz. It feels most stable to me. Could be placebo but I track better with 500hz.


----------



## mitavreb

I hate using 500hz on my ec1-a coz it's so laggy and my aim feels so slow. I've been using 1000hz and it feels good.


----------



## Wovermars1996

So I've had my EC2-A for almost 2 weeks now. When I first got it, it felt solid and had no issues with build quality. Now 11 days after using it, it feels like its starting to fall apart. The shell never used to have any issues but it the entire thing wobbles and squeaks when I rest my palm on it.


----------



## -IIToRII-

Sorry to heard that..
Never had an issue with the build quality with mine, except for the flimsy mouse 4/5 and bad-ish scoll-wheel .

So 500 hz is more stable withe zowie benq series?


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-IIToRII-*
> 
> Sorry to heard that..
> Never had an issue with the build quality with mine, except for the flimsy mouse 4/5 and bad-ish scoll-wheel .
> 
> So 500 hz is more stable withe zowie benq series?


well it depends. You could check it by using one of those polling rate checker softwares. I just like 500hz better than 1000hz due to it giving me a better control? Could all be just inside my head.. but if it works , then why not use it.







Although I think it's mostly just preference what you want to use.


----------



## Leopardi

Who said this mouse has stiff clicks?







It's directly comparable to any of my Logitech mice over the years, except G Pro which has too light clicks. ZA and AM had much stiffer clicks. I'm happy they did the recall on the Omrons, if with Huanos it feels this light.

Pretty damn happy with the shape for my fingertip hybrid grip, and build quality is good too - no rattle at all, not even the scroll wheel.

Are people doing the double stacking of the feet with EC2-A? Should I do it?


----------



## mndx

Yup, because my ec1 is draggin on my qck heavy with just stock feet.
Now i use good old hyperglides :>


----------



## DarthBaggins

Might swap feet on mine but so far works great on the mats I use (swap from Glorious XXL and my Asrock Gaming mat -wish I could find another guess I'll have to contact a ASRock rep to get another or if they have a larger one)


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mndx*
> 
> Yup, because my ec1 is draggin on my qck heavy with just stock feet.
> Now i use good old hyperglides :>


Are those speedy skatez different from the stock ones? Specs say they are 0.6mm, I remember reading the ones that come with the mouse are only 0.45mm?


----------



## mndx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopardi*
> 
> Are those speedy skatez different from the stock ones? Specs say they are 0.6mm, I remember reading the ones that come with the mouse are only 0.45mm?


hyperglides are 0.7 and pretty much gold standard for mouse feet. Don't know about other custom feet.


----------



## Leopardi

So how exactly do the LOD changes go with this mouse? The manual is falsely showing button 5 as button 4 in the polling rate section, so if going by the manual the lowest LOD mode is M5 + M1 instead of M4 + M1?


----------



## Neshy414

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopardi*
> 
> So how exactly do the LOD changes go with this mouse? The manual is falsely showing button 5 as button 4 in the polling rate section, so if going by the manual the lowest LOD mode is M5 + M1 instead of M4 + M1?



Back button+M2 - Very low
Back button+M1 - Default
Back button+M1+M2 - High


----------



## fak1t

Coming from a IE 3.0, is the ec1-a a better option than the ec2-a?


----------



## Aventadoor

Yes, EC2-A is much smaller


----------



## SynergyCB

Hmmm.....All theses great deals for Logitech, Razer, and Corsair products but no sale for Zowie products? Would love to buy a ZA12 and FK1 for a discounted price. Would be amazing if Zowie sold their mice today for only $29.99. A sale for the G-SR mousepad would have been nice too.


----------



## fak1t

Even doe i heard the ec1-a is smaller than the ie 3.0 , my hands are medium size + 18,7 cm , but i have been using the ie 3.0 for 7 years, but for some reason i feel like a smaller mice would be better for me ( just a tiny tiny smaller) so im not sure how small is the ec1a or the ec2a compared to the oldschool IE 3.0 ( i use a hybrid palm/finger grip)


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynergyCB*
> 
> Hmmm.....All theses great deals for Logitech, Razer, and Corsair products but no sale for Zowie products? Would love to buy a ZA12 and FK1 for a discounted price. Would be amazing if Zowie sold their mice today for only $29.99. A sale for the G-SR mousepad would have been nice too.


The only deal I've ever seen on zowies was when they were selling refurbished ones. I was actually shocked when they dropped the prices 5$ on amazon a while back.


----------



## ncck

I know that if you used the code ZOWIESHIP on zowie direct you'd get free shipping which would make it cheaper on their site than other places. However the downside is shipping is a little bit longer - but if you don't care then you can save a few bucks. I don't know if that code is still valid but you'd be able to grab say a GSR for $29 instead of $39


----------



## Iceman2733

I recently picked up the EC2-A this mouse is awesome super comfortable and great for FPS. Only downside I can find is I wish you could turn off the LED light on the mouse wheel. I love that you don't have to have bloated drivers running to make the mouse work.


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman2733*
> 
> I recently picked up the EC2-A this mouse is awesome super comfortable and great for FPS. Only downside I can find is I wish you could turn off the LED light on the mouse wheel. I love that you don't have to have bloated drivers running to make the mouse work.


It is great, but definitely forces you to play on low sensitivity... for medium and high its a no-no.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman2733*
> 
> I love that you don't have to have bloated drivers running to make the mouse work.


Marketing has another one!


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Marketing has another one!


To be fair synapse is crap


----------



## DarthBaggins

QFT synapse is complete junk, the non driver/app install is definitely a winner for me w/ my EC1-A
Even though I do like my G502 other than the stock feet suck.


----------



## Iceman2733

I completely agree I picked up a Razer Deathadder Chroma from Walmart for $49.99 which was cheaper than the Zowie mouse I couldn't stand there software running when it didn't need to be. They have 3 services that run with there drivers. (could be 2 lol don't qoute me). The drivers were extremely bloated with a bunch of stupid features who cares how far they have moved there mouse or how many clicks it has been thru. The mouse should have had built in memory install software flash updates/settings and uninstall and never look back.

Anyways I don't want to derail anymore than I have, I really can't say enough good things about this mouse. My mouse before was a Roccat Tyon which I bought for the 3 side buttons, my FPS game has improved greatly with this Zowie mouse. Only other complaint I have about the Zowie is it seems to be a fingerprint magnet.


----------



## chr1spe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarthBaggins*
> 
> QFT synapse is complete junk, the non driver/app install is definitely a winner for me w/ my EC1-A
> Even though I do like my G502 other than the stock feet suck.


That is one software that sucks and it only sucks because they removed the ability to save settings to the mouse. Mice with software where you can save all of your settings to the mouse and never run the software again are the way to go. Luckily that is how most mice with software work.


----------



## SynergyCB

Just put HypeGlide skates on my EC2-A for the first time. First impressions, glide is very smooth and a tiny bit faster than the stock feet. A little bit louder than the stock feet but thats probably because they're brand new skates. (Using this on a Zowie G-SR mousepad)


----------



## mihai21ro

Sometimes my left click becomes right click and right click isn't working at all, or it works after a few clicks and acts like left click. I solve it by dropping the mouse on the desk (actually hitting it), but it happened 3 times already and I wonder if I should send it to warranty already, or if there's a firmware fix.


----------



## Neshy414

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mihai21ro*
> 
> Sometimes my left click becomes right click and right click isn't working at all, or it works after a few clicks and acts like left click. I solve it by dropping the mouse on the desk (actually hitting it), but it happened 3 times already and I wonder if I should send it to warranty already, or if there's a firmware fix.


Yeah send it in, that sounds like a faulty unit to me.They don't generally offer firmware updates.


----------



## fak1t

can someone tell me whats is this 9H.N03BB.A2E?is this the last rev? Btw is the ec1-a smaller than the intellimouse 3.0? If so i must cancel my ec2-a order , my hands are about 19cm my grip is a mix of palm and fingertip. Im still considering the G403 as well


----------



## cnnd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fak1t*
> 
> can someone tell me whats is this 9H.N03BB.A2E?is this the last rev? Btw is the ec1-a smaller than the intellimouse 3.0? If so i must cancel my ec2-a order , my hands are about 19cm my grip is a mix of palm and fingertip. Im still considering the G403 as well


Same here I'm torn between EC2-A and G403. But on the other thread it seems you often get a faulty G403 :/

Btw is there any difference between white box/white logo EC2-A and the black box/red logo one?


----------



## Neshy414

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cnnd*
> 
> Same here I'm torn between EC2-A and G403. But on the other thread it seems you often get a faulty G403 :/
> 
> Btw is there any difference between white box/white logo EC2-A and the black box/red logo one?


Yes the red logo Zowies have a 16 notch mousewheel instead of the 24 notched one of the white Zowies. Earlier red logo Zowies had Omron switches under the main mouse buttons, though they are all back to Huanos now due to a manufacturing issue and subsequent recall. So apart from the mouse wheel and logo colour they are identical.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cnnd*
> 
> Same here I'm torn between EC2-A and G403. But on the other thread it seems you often get a faulty G403 :/
> 
> Btw is there any difference between white box/white logo EC2-A and the black box/red logo one?


I prefer shape, coating and the cable on EC-2A. But the clicks are terrible and Zowie mice are way worse quality than Logitech.


----------



## Dasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cnnd*
> 
> Same here I'm torn between EC2-A and G403. But on the other thread it seems you often get a faulty G403 :/
> 
> Btw is there any difference between white box/white logo EC2-A and the black box/red logo one?


White ones are more prone to skipping your wheel-scrolls.
Zowie sort of fixed it by going back to 16-Notch wheel, but is still not good. Skips still happen if you scrolls slowly.
Also you can place zowie's wheel into "undefined position" while scrolling slowly (wheel stops half-way) and when you lift up and "slam" the mouse onto mousepad, the scroll will happen.
Zowies scroll-Wheel-mechanics it the ****tiest part of their mice (The rubber wheel itself feels nice, but the scroll-encoder/notches are pretty bad).

Otherwise i like their mice.
Nice minimalistic design without any gam0r-bullcrap, great cable, no-drivers-needed-setup and of course, the shape (I'm still using the "yellow" FK1 after my IE mouse broke after 10 years).


----------



## Iceman2733

Weird question once you set polling rate do you have to reset it if you unplug it? Or is remembered through an unplug?


----------



## Neshy414

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Iceman2733*
> 
> Weird question once you set polling rate do you have to reset it if you unplug it? Or is remembered through an unplug?


It is remembered.


----------



## DashKingpin

Can't use my EC1-A nearly as well as my other top 3 mice. My other 3 are Logi g303, gpro and Mionix Naos 7000. Something about how it tracks is off. My other mice outclass it. Once I get it back from rma claim on malfunctioning LED, I will be selling/trading it.


----------



## cnnd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neshy414*
> 
> Yes the red logo Zowies have a 16 notch mousewheel instead of the 24 notched one of the white Zowies. Earlier red logo Zowies had Omron switches under the main mouse buttons, though they are all back to Huanos now due to a manufacturing issue and subsequent recall. So apart from the mouse wheel and logo colour they are identical.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> I prefer shape, coating and the cable on EC-2A. But the clicks are terrible and Zowie mice are way worse quality than Logitech.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dasher*
> 
> White ones are more prone to skipping your wheel-scrolls.
> Zowie sort of fixed it by going back to 16-Notch wheel, but is still not good. Skips still happen if you scrolls slowly.
> Also you can place zowie's wheel into "undefined position" while scrolling slowly (wheel stops half-way) and when you lift up and "slam" the mouse onto mousepad, the scroll will happen.
> Zowies scroll-Wheel-mechanics it the ****tiest part of their mice (The rubber wheel itself feels nice, but the scroll-encoder/notches are pretty bad).
> 
> Otherwise i like their mice.
> Nice minimalistic design without any gam0r-bullcrap, great cable, no-drivers-needed-setup and of course, the shape (I'm still using the "yellow" FK1 after my IE mouse broke after 10 years).


Thanks for the response all I just bought EC2-A and it's a perfect unit, no defects







Grip is perfect for my small Asian hands compared to Intelli 3.0. I can just palm it naturally while I sometimes have to readjust my hand to grip 3.0 properly. Overall the click and coating feeling remind me of my old Kinzu except this mouse is a bit taller and has no accel/prediction. Tier 1 mouse indeed









Sorry one last question, is the logo on the top of the mouse wear-proof? If it's not, I want to put tape on it so it doesn't go away..


----------



## audax

Does anyone here experience mouse wheel rattle with their EC1-A?

I've had the thing for a month and it's bugging the crap out of me. For comparison, my EC2-A has a solid mousewheel that is perfectly fine.


----------



## Marctraider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cnnd*
> 
> Same here I'm torn between EC2-A and G403. But on the other thread it seems you often get a faulty G403 :/
> 
> Btw is there any difference between white box/white logo EC2-A and the black box/red logo one?


Its not too hard.

G403 is bigger than EC2-a, the grip feels incredibly bulky for me, and the EC2-a was fine for me in that regard.

It has slightly inferior sensor but practically no difference for 99% of the people.

So the choice isnt that hard.

I just tried out the G403 for the lols and sent it back, just wanted to see if it was a better ec2-a replacement, in my perspective it was far from it. Id take the shape over the prodigy any time.

Can have great hardware but no use if the shape is not satisfactory.


----------



## Wovermars1996

Can we get some White Zowie mice please?
https://twitter.com/dev1ce/status/809338993326309380


----------



## Zhuni

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wovermars1996*
> 
> Can we get some White Zowie mice please?
> https://twitter.com/dev1ce/status/809338993326309380


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zowie*
> No


----------



## sjzorilla

okay guys sorry for asking a probably really common and general question and it will probably annoy you guys but i cant figure out how to find certain info i need from threads...

but how can i tell if i have the omrons or huanos? i just got a preowned ec1-a but i cant tell if it has huanos or omrons... the clicks are really light compared to my old ec2 evo cl, but it has the red logo and says ben1 on the box.


----------



## Melan

If you'll be having double click issues then it's most likely omrons. You can check for sure by taking it apart of course.


----------



## sjzorilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> If you'll be having double click issues then it's most likely omrons. You can check for sure by taking it apart of course.


i was thinking of that as the seller included the spare mouse feet but ive never done it before. Is there anything i should be expecting? or literally just unscrew, take apart, then screw back on? no loose parts or anything ?


----------



## Melan

It's straightforward. Remove feet, unscrew 4 screws, lift the top shell and you're done. No hidden lock shenanigans like with G403 warranty seal and stuff. You might want to replace those godawful thin zowie feet tho. Hyperglide has some EC feet you can use, or go with hotlines.


----------



## coccosoids

Is there a size difference between the old EC 2 A and the new one released under Benq? I tried one once and I can swear it felt smaller.﻿ Anyone with both can confirm? Thanks.


----------



## cnnd

Afaik, no.


----------



## SynergyCB

With 2017 coming up, when do you guys think Zowie will make their next revisions on their mice? 3360 sensor, better buttons/scrollwheel, etc. Hoping they release new mice by April/May.


----------



## Xicu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SynergyCB*
> 
> With 2017 coming up, when do you guys think Zowie will make their next revisions on their mice? 3360 sensor, better buttons/scrollwheel, etc. Hoping they release new mice by April/May.


I don't think so. According to this post in reddit there is no plan to switch to the 3360: https://www.reddit.com/r/MouseReview/comments/54ma9a/three_more_months_until_we_hit_the_1_year_mark/d847n89/


----------



## SynergyCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xicu*
> 
> I don't think so. According to this post in reddit there is no plan to switch to the 3360: https://www.reddit.com/r/MouseReview/comments/54ma9a/three_more_months_until_we_hit_the_1_year_mark/d847n89/


Guess they are satisfied with their bad scrollwheels and stiff buttons(FK mice). Dont get me started on the side buttons for the EC series. Those buttons have more travel time than I do in a whole year. Kappa

Dont really mind the 3310 sensor. Never had a problem with it. It just would be nice to have a better sensor.


----------



## cnnd

After 1 month~ of use, I can honestly say this mouse (EC2-A) is pretty garbage compared to my good old MS 3.0. I don't know if it's solely because the stiff clicks alone, or the shape/sensor, but it's much harder to aim with this mouse. With 3.0 I can close 1 of my eyes while tilting my head or whatever and I would still be able to frag hard. Idk why this mouse isn't as good..sigh maybe mice are overrated.


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cnnd*
> 
> After 1 month~ of use, I can honestly say this mouse (EC2-A) is pretty garbage compared to my good old MS 3.0. I don't know if it's solely because the stiff clicks alone, or the shape/sensor, but it's much harder to aim with this mouse. With 3.0 I can close 1 of my eyes while tilting my head or whatever and I would still be able to frag hard. Idk why this mouse isn't as good..sigh maybe mice are overrated.


Stiff clicks? My EC2-A is on the borderline of actuating by just resting fingers on them. It's like perfect.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopardi*
> 
> Stiff clicks? My EC2-A is on the borderline of actuating by just resting fingers on them. It's like perfect.


Now that's a friggin' oddity. Either you have a heavy grip or heavy fingers. My EC2-A is over a year old now and the LAST thing I'd ever say about its switches are that they were 'light'. It's boxed up in my storage now since my style of gameplay involves tap burst firing and sometimes spam firing and it's not as comfy for me with Zowie buttons vs. your run of the mill generic Omron switches. Just my personal experience. Highly subjective of course.


----------



## JulioCesarSF

I'm going to switch from my old Rival to EC1-A and i would like to know, what are the problems that i can have with this mouse?


----------



## cnnd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Leopardi*
> 
> Stiff clicks? My EC2-A is on the borderline of actuating by just resting fingers on them. It's like perfect.


Yeah, spam clicking takes more effort, sometimes I'm afraid that I will break the clicks because I need to use more force


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Now that's a friggin' oddity. Either you have a heavy grip or heavy fingers. My EC2-A is over a year old now and the LAST thing I'd ever say about its switches are that they were 'light'. It's boxed up in my storage now since my style of gameplay involves tap burst firing and sometimes spam firing and it's not as comfy for me with Zowie buttons vs. your run of the mill generic Omron switches. Just my personal experience. Highly subjective of course.


I remember zowie AM had very stiff buttons, this is nothing like it on the EC2-A. Maybe the new benq batches are different? Or I just got lucky with the switches and got one from the lightest end, so it's basically like a omron.


----------



## ncck

Just got a fresh ec1-a, I'm assuming it's production luck but my m1/m2 buttons are extremely light in comparison to the original I had - although I'm just weighing it towards luck of the draw

edit: Noticed it's from a third party seller, could be a high chance I got an omron version of the EC1-A, would be the best explanation for why the clicks are different.

Edit2: More certain it's the omron version, the scroll wheel has a different step compared to the other one I have in-hand next to it.


----------



## JulioCesarSF

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> I'm not sure if the currency conversion is correct via Google, but it comes out to ~$17 without shipping, for a bungee that costs $5 on Amazon. He probably gets them from China via Taobao/Alibaba for $1 each or something. It's just funny how he's considered an upstanding guy, and people praise him, yet takes advantage of his fanbase like this.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Where i am from that's what ****** do.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarthBaggins*
> 
> Must be expensive to print and place a sticker lol


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agsz*
> 
> Was browsing through FalleN's site, and he's selling the $5 Meco Bungee for $20 and slaps a sticker on it..


This is because we need to pay normally 60% tax to import something here and there is more tax inside the country after that to sell things. But i agree is kind overpriced.


----------



## DarthBaggins

I think I paid a whopping $3-$4(us) for my Razer Bungee - I've never used on before but over the past few month I'm noticing a difference


----------



## hammelgammler

I got the EC2 EVO CL now, man that coating on the sides is nice for now.

I need a EC1 EVO CL now, anyone has one which he doesn't use?


----------



## ncck

I now see why the omron version may have been recalled - using it today I notice clearly that the buttons 'bottom out' and don't push back at all, so it feels a little weird in that regard. This is 99.99% the omron version I received though, even the middle mouse button is super easy to press. Well that's what happens when you order 3rd party!


----------



## Xanatos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> I now see why the omron version may have been recalled - using it today I notice clearly that the buttons 'bottom out' and don't push back at all, so it feels a little weird in that regard. This is 99.99% the omron version I received though, even the middle mouse button is super easy to press. Well that's what happens when you order 3rd party!


planned obsolescence


----------



## VESPA5

I have friends who were actually opposed to having their beloved Zowie mice to have Omrons. Why? I guess the stiff tactile feedback gives it some sort of uniqueness. It's a preference, basically. But if BenQ/Zowie has been offering variations such as 3-4 different sizes for each of their models, why not provide an Omron or Huano choice? Don't get me wrong, the EC2-A is a fine mouse. I personally just find it more efficient to fire away and play better on a mouse with lighter switches. That's just me:thumb:


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> I have friends who were actually opposed to having their beloved Zowie mice to have Omrons. Why? I guess the stiff tactile feedback gives it some sort of uniqueness. It's a preference, basically. But if BenQ/Zowie has been offering variations such as 3-4 different sizes for each of their models, why not provide an Omron or Huano choice? Don't get me wrong, the EC2-A is a fine mouse. I personally just find it more efficient to fire away and play better on a mouse with lighter switches. That's just me:thumb:


YeaH but these switches don't feel right, I've used omrons on tons of mice and on this one the actual 'button' bottoms out at like the lowest point and never presses back - it kind of feels like a red cherry key except not in a good way. I'm most likely going to end up returning it!


----------



## hammelgammler

I have a problem with my Zowie EC2 EVO CL, the cursor jitters sometimes when the mouse stays still, like if you hold a "bad" mouse a few mm above the mousepad, like if the lift of distance goes crazy. Hard to describe it, but it's just that the cursor moves/jitters around but the mouse doesn't move itself.

Anyone can help me with this problem?


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> I have a problem with my Zowie EC2 EVO CL, the cursor jitters sometimes when the mouse stays still, like if you hold a "bad" mouse a few mm above the mousepad, like if the lift of distance goes crazy. Hard to describe it, but it's just that the cursor moves/jitters around but the mouse doesn't move itself.
> 
> Anyone can help me with this problem?


Some dirt on mousepad or the sensor. You have a cloth or hard pad?


----------



## hammelgammler

Well my mousepad is like new, and no other mouse has problems with it (Zowie G-SR). And I cleaned the bottom with a micro fiber cloth, or do I need to open it up in order to clean it properly?


----------



## 285214

Hello, does anyone know if these feet fit the ec1-a ec2-a models?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/122175095808?ul_noapp=true
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Tiger-Gaming-Zowie-EC-eVo-Mouse-Feet-Skates-Teflon-Black-0-45mm-New-/281153915399


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Technofetishist*
> 
> Hello, does anyone know if these feet fit the ec1-a ec2-a models?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/122175095808?ul_noapp=true
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Tiger-Gaming-Zowie-EC-eVo-Mouse-Feet-Skates-Teflon-Black-0-45mm-New-/281153915399


They will, yes


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> I have a problem with my Zowie EC2 EVO CL, the cursor jitters sometimes when the mouse stays still, like if you hold a "bad" mouse a few mm above the mousepad, like if the lift of distance goes crazy. Hard to describe it, but it's just that the cursor moves/jitters around but the mouse doesn't move itself.
> 
> Anyone can help me with this problem?


I had my EVO and CL bounce the cursor around from time to time. I figured it was just something with the way Zowie designed the mice that the tracking issues came up more often than I'd like.

I just accepted it as a trait of the mouse during my time of ownership. Otherwise I'd RMA it if you still are within warranty time.


----------



## Vyrth

Zowie announcing a new product next week www.twitter.com/ZOWIEbyBenQUSA/status/817430531835068417

3360 EC incoming?


----------



## Alya

This is why I'm holding off on buying the ZA13, I've been screwed by Zowie releasing a new product literally a week after I bought one of their other products, and they refused to exchange it, so I'm waiting until their mice go 3360 and it's confirmed that they're not trash before I even think about buying anything.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vyrth*
> 
> Zowie announcing a new product next week www.twitter.com/ZOWIEbyBenQUSA/status/817430531835068417
> 
> 3360 EC incoming?


Laughed hard at "ZOWIE is focused on delivering the best"


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> Laughed hard at "ZOWIE is focused on delivering the best"


What? You don't like 10ms click delay on a 3310 with a screwed up wheel implementation and a coating that sucks up oils like crazy? What's wrong with you?


----------



## Twiffle

Or perhaps even new mouse model... something like the Kinzu finally?


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Or perhaps even new mouse model... something like the Kinzu finally?


Twiffle, please. PLEASE. Don't get my hopes up like that, dear god, you're gonna make my heart stop.


----------



## JackCY

If anything hopefully it's not worse than the terrible EC series quality








Every Zowie mouse I bought I've returned because of QC and bad design issues.

Split buttons? Forget it. Until they finally do that I won't buy another Zowie most likely as all the mice with buttons integrated into top shell I have tried have went back to the store period.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> Twiffle, please. PLEASE. Don't get my hopes up like that, dear god, you're gonna make my heart stop.


Sorry I just had to







new model + better coating would be nice tbh. Not sure if I'm only one who doesn't like the current coating.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> Sorry I just had to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> new model + better coating would be nice tbh. Not sure if I'm only one who doesn't like the current coating.


I absolutely despise the current coating of their mice, it's awful.


----------



## JackCY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> I absolutely despise the current coating of their mice, it's awful.


Slippery. I prefer no coating as I have yet to see any coating that withstands the aggressive human hands.

---
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fak1t*
> 
> Even doe i heard the ec1-a is smaller than the ie 3.0 , my hands are medium size + 18,7 cm , but i have been using the ie 3.0 for 7 years, but for some reason i feel like a smaller mice would be better for me ( just a tiny tiny smaller) so im not sure how small is the ec1a or the ec2a compared to the oldschool IE 3.0 ( i use a hybrid palm/finger grip)


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fak1t*
> 
> can someone tell me whats is this 9H.N03BB.A2E?is this the last rev? Btw is the ec1-a smaller than the intellimouse 3.0? If so i must cancel my ec2-a order , my hands are about 19cm my grip is a mix of palm and fingertip. Im still considering the G403 as well


EC1 is smaller as in mainly shorter than IE3.0 and it has quite different side button and wheel placement which completely ruins the great ergonomy IE3.0 has.
Of course IE3.0 is for normal hands of adults not much for kids or Asians.

If I didn't post pictures of the dimensions of IE3.0 vs EC1 here then try looking on geekhack or PM me, I still have them if not digital then on paper.


----------



## Hunched

So we finally get to see the BenQ money do something now? It's been about a year.


----------



## SynergyCB

inb4 Zowie Keyboard.......

They showed their monitor, mouse, bungee, mousepad, and their audio system. My guess would be they reveal a keyboard. Hope its their mice with 3360 sensor and better coating/buttons. Recently started using the EC2-a again and this mouse is super slippery compared to the G Pro. Its getting to the point where I don't even want to use any Zowie mice until they refresh their mice lineup.


----------



## Maximillion

What if this is some sort of MiCO refresh/return?!

...lol, j/k.


----------



## ProPipe

Its 100% a keyboard. At DH Winter i asked the employee if Zowie had any plans for 2017, he said none for mice but they are releasing a new keyboard in Q1. Backed up by this picture of a Celeritas with leds and benq symbol








He said they werent planning on updated mice because Benq/Zowie are so invested in their current line. Possibly that they have made too many and they arent selling fast enough to allow them to launch an updated line.


----------



## SynergyCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ProPipe*
> 
> Its 100% a keyboard. At DH Winter i asked the employee if Zowie had any plans for 2017, he said none for mice but they are releasing a new keyboard in Q1. Backed up by this picture of a Celeritas with leds and benq symbol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He said they werent planning on updated mice because Benq/Zowie are so invested in their current line. Possibly that they have made too many and they arent selling fast enough to allow them to launch an updated line.


Welp that basically confirms it. Looks like a pretty basic keyboard. I'll stick with my Corsair K70 Rapidfire


----------



## dopeysparks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ProPipe*
> 
> Its 100% a keyboard. At DH Winter i asked the employee if Zowie had any plans for 2017, he said none for mice but they are releasing a new keyboard in Q1. Backed up by this picture of a Celeritas with leds and benq symbol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He said they werent planning on updated mice because Benq/Zowie are so invested in their current line. Possibly that they have made too many and they arent selling fast enough to allow them to launch an updated line.


kinda like my Zowie Celeritas more tbh


----------



## solz

Yea its def a new keyboard, just saw it on Astralis their twitter:


----------



## fourthavenue

To those who say "spamming zowie mice buttons is not difficult", I'm really curious how strong they(or their fingers) are.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fourthavenue*
> 
> To those who say "spamming zowie mice buttons is not difficult", I'm really curious how strong they(or their fingers) are.


Well I can spam zowie as good as any other mouse. As in at the same consistent rate. Only mouse which failed me with spamming was Rival 300.. as the clicks in it are really mushy. To be honest if people find zowie clicks too hard to press in I'd think that they're even skinnier than what I am(That being said I'm really skinny). In my opinion it all comes down to getting the clicking rhythm and you're all set.


----------



## messer19

I'm afraid of stiff clicks I'm fingertipper and I've had this problem with almost every mouse except Diamondback 3G and G502, the clicks on them are perfect on 90% of button area.


----------



## mikidi

I want to disable the LED on my EC2-A.

The only way to do this is open the mouse and snip a wire in there, or has someone figured out something easier by now?

The people who have done it, after you put the mouse back together did you then use it without the sticker things on the bottom covering the screws? How does it slide? Or you reinserted and glued them back on? Or you got new stickers like that somewhere? I'd love to hear some experiences, thanks.


----------



## Chirsu

Yes, this question bothers me too. I'm also thinking about finding the black wheel from fk or za model to replace the white one, but I'm not sure if it's possible


----------



## mikidi

I have two old Logitech mice (mx500 and mx518, basically the same mouse) that I've removed those bottom cover stickers and opened them both multiple times just to clean them. Both of them slide nicely even without the stickers ("feet" is what these are called?), wouldn't even know they were missing. But I don't have any prior experiences with Zowie mice.


----------



## espn

Any popular problem if this mice or Zowie mices in general? For a Taiwan brand, isn't this too expensive?


----------



## fourthavenue

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Any popular problem if this mice or Zowie mices in general? For a Taiwan brand, isn't this too expensive?


Like most of gaming mice brands, zowie spent tons of money sponsoring professional gaming teams, sponsoring pro leagues, hiring people to write articles on forums, putting advertisement on websites and forums.
The price for each mouse will be inevitably high. I'd say half of the money you pay for the mouse is donated to pro gamers.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fourthavenue*
> 
> Like most of gaming mice brands, zowie spent tons of money sponsoring professional gaming teams, sponsoring pro leagues, hiring people to write articles on forums, putting advertisement on websites and forums.
> The price for each mouse will be inevitably high. I'd say half of the money you pay for the mouse is donated to pro gamers.


half of the money to marketing like fake comments on forum, yes....pro gamers may share some but not a lot. I really doubt a Taiwan brand mice build quality for that price.


----------



## fourthavenue

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> half of the money to marketing like fake comments on forum, yes....pro gamers may share some but not a lot. I really doubt a Taiwan brand mice build quality for that price.


People here tend to say Zowie mice have very good quality. Such as they have consistent LOD, smooth coating, no pre-travels on L/R buttons.
But in fact zowie mice have a lot of quality issues in other aspects. The bottom surface on some copies are not even (people won't feel it on cloth mats). Some copies have misaligned Zowie logo on its back.
I have 3 Zowie mice and when open my ZA13 up, I found that one of the screw holes under the feet is already broken. It's not stripped, it is literally broken. How can a screw hole got broken when the mouse was assembled? How can I be convinced this is good quality?
I'd say Zowie has got some points on how to make a gaming mouse. But they are pretty loose on their quality. It is understandable because they have to put so much money on sponsoring and advertising.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fourthavenue*
> 
> People here tend to say Zowie mice have very good quality. Such as they have consistent LOD, smooth coating, no pre-travels on L/R buttons.
> But in fact zowie mice have a lot of quality issues in other aspects. The bottom surface on some copies are not even (people won't feel it on cloth mats). Some copies have misaligned Zowie logo on its back.
> I have 3 Zowie mice and when open my ZA13 up, I found that one of the screw holes under the feet is already broken. It's not stripped, it is literally broken. How can a screw hole got broken when the mouse was assembled? How can I be convinced this is good quality?
> I'd say Zowie has got some points on how to make a gaming mouse. But they are pretty loose on their quality. It is understandable because they have to put so much money on sponsoring and advertising.


Zowie price is like the most expensive mice on average now, much higher than a lot of Logtiech little bit outdate model like G402.


----------



## Twiffle

The coating is god awful. At least for people with a bit oily/sweaty hands. Not sure how grippy zowies are with dry hands.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> The coating is god awful. At least for people with a bit oily/sweaty hands. Not sure how grippy zowies are with dry hands.


The coating peel off or what happen?


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> The coating peel off or what happen?


More like there's some sort of coating on BenQ versions for the first 2-3 days and then its gone and the mouse will be very slippery. I have had 4 different BenQ zowies and they all had this same issue :/


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> More like there's some sort of coating on BenQ versions for the first 2-3 days and then its gone and the mouse will be very slippery. I have had 4 different BenQ zowies and they all had this same issue :/


Sound so bad.
By the way I can only find the benq zowies website, is there a non benq version website?


----------



## espn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J14fyar5ns&t=704s
The funny part is that for last number 2 and 3, he says he needs to manually fix xyz many things for Zowie mices but still give these number 2 and 3 just because of the shape, XD


----------



## saltedham

i didnt like that zowie does not mention their coatings. had the yellow fk1 and 2. had a nice grainy coating. got the fk1 + and its now is a slippery coating


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *saltedham*
> 
> i didnt like that zowie does not mention their coatings. had the yellow fk1 and 2. had a nice grainy coating. got the fk1 + and its now is a slippery coating


I don't expect a Taiwan company would put money on making better durable quality at all.


----------



## hammelgammler

I just tried the Zowie EC2 EVO CL with my Steelseries Qck+, and for now there are no jitter problems? The cursor was all over the place with the Zowie G-SR, does a mouspad make such a huge difference? In general I liked the G-SR more, but it seems like the problem is gone with the Qck+.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Sound so bad.
> By the way I can only find the benq zowies website, is there a non benq version website?


That's their webstore. If you want to try and find white or yellow ones you should check amazon/eBay .

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> I just tried the Zowie EC2 EVO CL with my Steelseries Qck+, and for now there are no jitter problems? The cursor was all over the place with the Zowie G-SR, does a mouspad make such a huge difference? In general I liked the G-SR more, but it seems like the problem is gone with the Qck+.


Not sure if related but could be the pad thickness. Qck+ is very thin.. around 2mm and G-SR is 4mm or so.


----------



## hammelgammler

Well too bad, the problem is still there with the Qck+.









Did anyone ever tried to mod their EC with a dremel to reduce some weight? One guy cut some plastic off the Logitech G400 and reduced it from 106g to 89g. It would be awesome to bring the weight down to 75-80g.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> Well too bad, the problem is still there with the Qck+.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did anyone ever tried to mod their EC with a dremel to reduce some weight? One guy cut some plastic off the Logitech G400 and reduced it from 106g to 89g. It would be awesome to bring the weight down to 75-80g.


Clean the lens of your EC2 Evo. Since the lens uses magnification dust particles are a real headache for zowie 3090 mice.


----------



## hammelgammler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Clean the lens of your EC2 Evo. Since the lens uses magnification dust particles are a real headache for zowie 3090 mice.


Already cleaned it with a Q-Tip and Isopropanol Alcohol. The only thing I can try is to take it apart and clean it from inside, maybe that will help?


----------



## Chirsu

http://zowie.benq.com/content/game/en/product/mouse/ec/ec2-a/_jcr_content/featuresPar/textimage_1965936304/image.img.png/1472640099447.png
https://www.cowcotland.com/images/news/2015/01/souris-zowie-ec1-a-ec2-a-1.jpg
Wait, what? White logo EC2-A is bigger than the red logo one?


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chirsu*
> 
> http://zowie.benq.com/content/game/en/product/mouse/ec/ec2-a/_jcr_content/featuresPar/textimage_1965936304/image.img.png/1472640099447.png
> https://www.cowcotland.com/images/news/2015/01/souris-zowie-ec1-a-ec2-a-1.jpg
> Wait, what? White logo EC2-A is bigger than the red logo one?


yes and still no lighting on logo, very cheap design.


----------



## Twiffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> yes and still no lighting on logo, very cheap design.


There will probably never be lights in Zowie mice(apart from DPI lights thats are present in EC series). They're about having good shape, plug and play and to be simple without any gimmicky sniper buttons or extra lighting .


----------



## Chirsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> yes and still no lighting on logo, very cheap design.


Actually I don't really care about the lightning on logo. I'd rather have better side buttons and black scroll without lightning. But I'm surprised that red-logo EC2-A is smaller than the white-logo one. Because people keep saying that the only difference is logo color and 16-step scroll wheel


----------



## Chirsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AloneInTheDuck*
> 
> Different sizes and weight. I'm suprised too


Yep, I've ordered the one 2016 version a couple of days ago. I wonder if the white logo with lower weight, same grip width and bigger support for the hand would be better for my hand.
Anyone with both 2015 and 2016 versions of EC2-A can confirm?


----------



## hammelgammler

I do have the white Logo, red Logo (BenQ) and old red Logo EC2 EVO CL and will weight and compare all three later. But when using all of them I didn't felt any difference. Maybe it's like with the new Roccat which on paper has different measurements but it's actually the exact same shell.


----------



## Chirsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hammelgammler*
> 
> I do have the white Logo, red Logo (BenQ) and old red Logo EC2 EVO CL and will weight and compare all three later. But when using all of them I didn't felt any difference. Maybe it's like with the new Roccat which on paper has different measurements but it's actually the exact same shell.


Maybe the image is wrong, because it says 87g on white logo, but when RJN measured the weight it was 95 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Maximillion

They're the same size, just measured/listed incorrectly. Trust me (outside of marginal manufacturing variance) Zowie isn't taking the money/time/effort to modify the shells.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> They're the same size, just measured/listed incorrectly. Trust me (outside of marginal manufacturing variance) Zowie isn't taking the money/time/effort to modify the shells.


^This. So true. Maybe, just maybe, they'll make better thumb buttons that don't feel like they'll snap if you depress them too far in to actuate the switch.


----------



## Chirsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> ^This. So true. Maybe, just maybe, they'll make better thumb buttons that don't feel like they'll snap if you depress them too far in to actuate the switch.











I hope they replace scroll with a black one and move dpi indicator to bottom, improve sidebuttons and upgrade to 3360 T_T


----------



## Chirsu

Or maybe DreamMachines or Nixeus will copy their design like they did with sensei


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chirsu*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope they replace scroll with a black one and move dpi indicator to bottom, improve sidebuttons and upgrade to 3360 T_T


Now now now. That would make too much sense and would most likely make the mouse sell like hot cakes, but why would BenQ do a thing like that?








The black scroll wheel like on the FK series is so much more appealing than the LED wheel on my EC2-A. I'm dead set on 800 dpi which means I have a bright pink scroll wheel that I have to train myself not to get distracted by while gaming.


----------



## xdmcdantex

Got my second ec2-a this morning, no scroll wheel bug, no sensor rattle and to top it off the clicks feel the same between mouse 1 and 2. What gives? I'm used to getting duds from zowie lately. About the only thing that feels not to my liking is the scroll steps, they feel really mushy how is everyone elses scroll wheels feel?


----------



## exeandrey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chirsu*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope they replace scroll with a black one and move dpi indicator to bottom, improve sidebuttons and upgrade to 3360 T_T


+1 absolutely same hopes


----------



## espn

The funny thing is these mices are the same price in Taiwan, no discount for local at all.


----------



## exeandrey

I ve contacted zowie and ask them obiut 3360 upgrade. Not responded yet(((((


----------



## notzi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exeandrey*
> 
> I ve contacted zowie and ask them obiut 3360 upgrade. Not responded yet(((((


I doubt they will upgrade the sensor until 3310 is at the end of its life


----------



## drewno

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exeandrey*
> 
> I ve contacted zowie and ask them obiut 3360 upgrade. Not responded yet(((((


You'd better tell them about mercury sensor and it's price, they'll respond quickly i guess.


----------



## BenchAndGames

I just received right now the Zowie EC2-A and at the moment its seems everything ok exept one thing. The rattle ...
I dont know how this can affect on the performance of the mice, what you guys think, its that normal or I need to replace it with a new unit, but maybe will be have also...so I dont know what to do.


----------



## gujukal

Mine does not rattle at all, i would return it!


----------



## BenchAndGames

Ye I just buy a new one, so when is comes I will return the "rattle unit" because they will give me the money back.
I just dont want to do RMA because I have fallen in love at the first sight of him, and I do not want to be two or three days without him until the RMA changes me, damn, I really love this mice, I just hope the new one comes without any problem


----------



## GHADthc

Anyone here found a different mousewheel that could replace the stock one in an EC2-A? Would love to put a black one in the mouse, instead of just desoldering the led.


----------



## Chirsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GHADthc*
> 
> Anyone here found a different mousewheel that could replace the stock one in an EC2-A? Would love to put a black one in the mouse, instead of just desoldering the led.


I didn't try it, but I think getting the black rubber part of the wheel from FK or ZA series should work. So you don't even need to replace the wheel, only the outer rubber part.
Only one problem: where to get it, without buying a mouse for that?


----------



## Xanatos

My EC2-A with Huano microswitches started doing erratic occasional double-clicks with a single press on the LMB. I haven't even used this mouse for heavy online gaming. Mostly web browsing and a few single player games. Are modern mice made to fail?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xanatos*
> 
> My EC2-A with Huano microswitches started doing erratic occasional double-clicks with a single press on the LMB. I haven't even used this mouse for heavy online gaming. Mostly web browsing and a few single player games. Are modern mice made to fail?


I can get a Zowie to "double click" if I press the button then let the spring release slightly. This causes enough spring travel to not get tactile feedback, but enough to come off the contact and actuate again. My other mice do this too. My G100s is a champ at it.

I simply press the button firmly and let off properly to make sure the spring doesn't come off the contact in a way that can cause a "double click." I have to be more conscious about it with light/worn switches.


----------



## Vario

Got a BenQ EC2A recently. Just like everyone else, I like the mouse but the side buttons are terrible. They are worse than my EC1 eVo, which I thought was okay. Is it because of the EC2's smaller shell? I like the other buttons and wheel. Is there a worthwhile fix for the sides? They don't press super smooth and theres lots of extra travel. Do the buttons break in and get smoother over time, or does it get sloppier? Otherwise the mouse is my absolute favorite.


----------



## fuzzybass

So... pardon me for asking a question that's probably been asked many times, but what are the switches used on the latest Zowie models? Last I remember was they switched to Omrons, but they had to recall them due to double-clicking issues, and then I haven't caught up since.

Did they still stick with Omrons and fix the double-clicking issues? Or did they just go back to Huanos? And the switches are the same across all FK/EC/ZA lines, right? I'm asking cause I'm thinking of picking one up from my local Fry's.


----------



## Vario

They went back to Huano switches. Most of the stiffness is because of the shell design.
ZA was fabulous switch wise. Side switches worked well too. But these EC2As have such terrible side buttons I'd rather they not even bother putting them on the mouse.


----------



## Chirsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vario*
> 
> They went back to Huano switches. Most of the stiffness is because of the shell design.
> ZA was fabulous switch wise. Side switches worked well too. But these EC2As have such terrible side buttons I'd rather they not even bother putting them on the mouse.


Nah, it's better then nothing, I still use those for pulling out certain nades in cs go, works acceptable. But something requiring more precision in regard of time when you intend to press the button would be hard to use.


----------



## Chirsu

So I've been using my benq EC2-a for a month so far. I've got no QA problems so far: no shell noise when pressing it hard, no double clicks, ect.
Everything works fine.
But I've noticed that the default mouse skates wear out pretty fast. Here's the pictures of how it looks like(couldn't get the quality any better)




Is this wear a common thing? I mean looks like I'll have to use the replacement feet in 1-4 weeks max, if not now.
The glide seems kind of ok, but I'm pretty sure it's far from what it used to be out of the box. I've also cleaned the pad recently, so it must be the skates, also my g pro which I used for about 3-4 month glides better.

I've been thinking of trying out the hyperglides also. Can anybody comment on how fast those wear out and how much better are those compared to the default skates?


----------



## cdcd

Zowie mouse feet wear out pretty fast. If you go for Hypeglide I'd suggest just getting ones for Intellimice (IME 3.x). They work well enough and should last longer than any replacements of similar size.


----------



## audax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdcd*
> 
> Zowie mouse feet wear out pretty fast. If you go for Hypeglide I'd suggest just getting ones for Intellimice (IME 3.x). They work well enough and should last longer than any replacements of similar size.


But they have Zowie-specific ones... that work perfectly fine...


----------



## Chirsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *audax*
> 
> But they have Zowie-specific ones... that work perfectly fine...


Exactly, was planning to buy those, idk why would there be any need in anything else. Any comments on how fast those hyperglides wearout and how is the glide different?


----------



## Ryusaki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chirsu*
> 
> Exactly, was planning to buy those, idk why would there be any need in anything else. Any comments on how fast those hyperglides wearout and how is the glide different?


Hyperglides are better glide and doesnt wear off that fast and i believe they are also thicker. overall just better quality.


----------



## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chirsu*
> 
> Exactly, was planning to buy those, idk why would there be any need in anything else. Any comments on how fast those hyperglides wearout and how is the glide different?


I just installed them on mine and it's a night and day difference basically. I can do micro adjustments now without static friction interfering anymore.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

The hyperglide pads are extremely solid, i've had them on my ec2-a for ages. Highly recommended.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chirsu*
> 
> Exactly, was planning to buy those, idk why would there be any need in anything else. Any comments on how fast those hyperglides wearout and how is the glide different?


They work best on firm cloth surfaces and preferably no coating. Haven't tried them on hard pads. They last forever on cloth. More than 24 months. The glide is like a total control feeling.. you can just make micro adjustments and not feel like there's a resistance stopping you but not feeling like an ice puck either. They're really that good.. not even talking it up

And it comes with an extra pair... Once you go hyper it's hard to use anything else. If I made a mouse I'd contract with the dude who makes these to have them come out with these as stock skates


----------



## Chirsu

Thanks for the replies everyone!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> They work best on firm cloth surfaces and preferably no coating


I am currently using Glorious pad and it works well, but I have a problem: when my hand gets sweaty it gets very sticky. The mouse moves fine, but it's hard to move the hand, it feels like it's glued to the pad. So, maybe you can suggest a pad too? I'm thinking of trying QCK heavy or Razer Gigantus.

Also, just another thing I wanted to mention about Zowie mice - I'm pretty much happy with the mouse, except that it makes my hand too sweaty, but recently I took my logitech g pro to my workplace to use it there. And the build felt so much better and more solid, the plastic feels like much higher quality, the Zowie plastic compared to logi plastic feels like complete trash. But I'm still using it, until I find something that fits my hand as good.


----------



## karbz

Personally using the ec2-a benq version with either artisan
Raiden or otsu mid both work like a charm.


----------



## wompwomp

Anyone know if they'll be refreshing or revising the EC2 soon to better the side buttons and the extremely hard scroll wheel?


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wompwomp*
> 
> Anyone know if they'll be refreshing or revising the EC2 soon to better the side buttons and the extremely hard scroll wheel?


No info on a date. The side buttons will be improved but the scroll wheel will not change. That's what my source says








Unfortunately my info is limited since the benQ acquisition. Use to be easier for me to get info

@chir
Yeah either are fine.


----------



## realex

Enter stock 2017-04-21

thats what it says on maxgaming.se


----------



## karbz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *realex*
> 
> Enter stock 2017-04-21
> 
> thats what it says on maxgaming.se


So that means new version?!


----------



## trism

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *karbz*
> 
> So that means new version?!


No, that's for the white ECs.


----------



## Nivity

"new" version, sidebuttons still have 30 miles pretravel.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> "new" version, sidebuttons still have 30 miles pretravel.


Weird thing is the ZA doesn't have that while the EC does??


----------



## Vario

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> Weird thing is the ZA doesn't have that while the EC does??


ZA has a better designed shell. Too bad the EC2 seems to be more comfortable.


----------



## Twiffle

My Zowie sensor passed out during a deathmatch... I'm not sure should that be possible. It just stopped tracking for a second and went back to normal. Did it few times. 46.6 cm/360 I don't think there should be any way of the sensor malfunctioning with this sensitivity. Never had it happen in a normal game...yet. Just wondering if someone else made theirs to malfunction. Last time it happened to my other Zowie... the sensor just completely died. No DPI lighting or anything.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Twiffle*
> 
> My Zowie sensor passed out during a deathmatch... I'm not sure should that be possible. It just stopped tracking for a second and went back to normal. Did it few times. 46.6 cm/360 I don't think there should be any way of the sensor malfunctioning with this sensitivity. Never had it happen in a normal game...yet. Just wondering if someone else made theirs to malfunction. Last time it happened to my other Zowie... the sensor just completely died. No DPI lighting or anything.


Is your mousepad colorful? If not then there's a chance when you lifted it and placed it down it was at a weird angle and caused a malfunction

If the sensor is truly dead then it should start malfunctioning often or stop working completely in my past experiences


----------



## Twiffle

Nah. Razer gigantus. Well I do mostly keep my mouse like towards 11 o'clock.. so it is a bit angled. Well my other Zowie is dead. This one is still working, although it did pass out few times during a deathmatch. I guess I'll have to see if it'll keep doing it. If it's all 3310's that do this... Then I'll just have to get something like G403 or wait until the day we get 3360 Zowies :c


----------



## exeandrey

What is the reason they wont update sensor? If they ill update it everyone who playing now on zowies mices and happy with shape going to buy updated version eventually. What is behind this slow decisions? I have only in mind that they have tons of 3310 sensors in their stock and they need to use all of them.


----------



## avidlistener

Hi all,

For those ec2-a users who are using Hyperglide skates, Does the thickness affect your mouse performance? I find that the thickness lift the sensor too high that sometimes the mouse stops tracking. I have changed the LOD to original settings ( m4 + m1+ m2). I do not have these problems using thinner skates, eg. Tiger gaming 0.4mm skates or even hotline 0.5mm microsoft skates. This problem only exist when I use Hyperglides. I tried the Hyperglides Microsoft skates as well (0.8mm), the problem also persist here. If it helps, I am using the ec2-a with the white zowie logo.

Also, I believe the highest LOD settings tracks at 2CDs, however, after putting on the hyperglides and doing the test on 1 CDS, it does not track at all. So, could this be a LOD problem with my mouse? Kindly appreciate your feedback on this matter. Thanks.


----------



## ncck

Hyper glides should not stop the mouse from tracking and if you already adjusted the LOD to maximum and still experience issues it sounds like a faulty mouse

Before an RMA consider these things:

Does it not track on another pad?
Did you have any tracking issues before?

Regardless sounds from your description to be faulty. I have hypers on all my zowies and they're tracking on default LOD. If yours works on the highest lod then you're fine. Yes it does change the distance from surface to lens and will change over time as the skates decay. Different mouse pads give A different lod as well depending on the surface


----------



## avidlistener

Thanks for your response.

In regards to your response,

It happens in other pads as well. I own a qck +, qck heavy and zowie GSR. This happened at all 3 pads. This issues has been there since I switched to the zowie mouse.(Used to use WMO with hypers). I used to think its because of its low LOD feature.

The problem with the hypers for me is that when doing normal mouse movement it tracks alright but when playing csgo, especially when doing fast swiping movements or flicks, sometimes it can randomly stop tracking all of the sudden for a few sec, this happens quite frequently and frankly is just frustrating considering that I would love to use hypers as my go to skates as it is just excellent in terms of glide and smoothness. Also, i feel that when using hypers my ingame sens feel weirdly slower than usual. I can feel that the mouse movement and my hand movement doesn't sync, it sort of feels like there is a lag or delay or some sort. This is very obvious when I used thinner skates like the tiger gaming 0.45mm, the tracking issues doesn't persist anymore. Only problems is that the glide just sucks compared to hyper.

I kinda conclude that my mouse could be the problems because as I read through the threads, it mentioned that high LOD settings can track at 2CDS, taking into calculation the thickness of hypers at 0.7mm, there is still at least 1.3mm which means it should have no problem tracking at 1CDS with the hypers but mine does not. This is just frustrating to say the least.


----------



## ncck

It may be faulty. I have hypers on a fk and za on the default lod and both track here on 3 separate mouse pads. I'm sorry this happened


----------



## noibat2

Anyone has experienced loose sidebuttons on a EC2-a?


----------



## Chirsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *noibat2*
> 
> Anyone has experienced loose sidebuttons on a EC2-a?


Everybody?


----------



## plyr

I recently got the glossy version of EC1-A, and just a few days of use the scroll started to get stuck, since I always open my mouse to change the cable to paracord, already voided warranty. Heres how to fix the issue, its pretty easy.



Sand a little bit of the bottom of the circle with some metal tool.


----------



## VESPA5

Of the 2 copies of the EC2-A that I owned, the recurring problem I had was something was getting stuck, all be it the M1/M2 buttons or the scroll wheel. Seems like BenQ/Zowie is up there with Razer and Logitech when it comes to QC issues.


----------



## Zhuni

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Of the 2 copies of the EC2-A that I owned, the recurring problem I had was something was getting stuck, all be it the M1/M2 buttons or the scroll wheel. Seems like BenQ/Zowie is up there with Razer and Logitech when it comes to QC issues.


Yeah for sure. Since they've been taken over its all gone pretty junkie.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Of the 2 copies of the EC2-A that I owned, the recurring problem I had was something was getting stuck, all be it the M1/M2 buttons or the scroll wheel. Seems like BenQ/Zowie is up there with Razer and Logitech when it comes to QC issues.


Have you slowed down yet? Lol


----------



## b0z0

I will be receiving my White EC2-a today to add to the collection. No clue why I'm excited tho lol


----------



## SynergyCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plyr*
> 
> I recently got the glossy version of EC1-A, and just a few days of use the scroll started to get stuck, since I always open my mouse to change the cable to paracord, already voided warranty. Heres how to fix the issue, its pretty easy.
> 
> 
> 
> Sand a little bit of the bottom of the circle with some metal tool.


Since my scrollwheel kept getting stuck on my new White EC2-A and I was about to apply on some HyperGlides, I decided to give this a try. I simply just followed what plyr said to do. After about 10-15min of sanding off the area with a flat head screwdriver, my scrollwheel stopped getting stuck. I made sure each step of the scrollwheel was tested multiple times and not once did it get stuck. Not only does it not get stuck, it feels like the scrollwheel scrolls smoother. Thanks plyr on the fix









If any of you guys get a stuck scrollwheel, I recommend doing what plyr did.


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Have you slowed down yet? Lol


Ha ha. No. "New Mouse Purchasing" is worse than crack. I've actually settled down on the Nixeus Revel. I actually got one where the M1/M2 buttons didn't stick. Have been using it for 2 months regularly since then.


----------



## freddy4fingrar

Maybe wrong thread to ask this question, but i give it a try.
Does the za and fk series have the same "sluggish" feeling of the sensor that ec2a and ec1a?

And do anybody know how to minimize the slugginess? if i higher the dpi i think it gets a bit snappier, do you guys agree?


----------



## Randallell

Does the EC series have a "higher" LOD than the ZA and FK series? I know you can change the LOD, but even on the lowest setting it still feels higher.


----------



## cdcd

Might be due to variation in feet thickness.


----------



## saltedham

i just got a black ec2-a and i gotta say its great. nice width so my hand does not cramp up. shorter length than deathadder for fine aiming. like the stiff style scroll wheel. i can see why people like this mouse. just wish i could pick the color for the scroll wheel led and that the zowie logo was led lit. prefer the grainy coating of the old yellow fk1 but i can live with the slippery newer style


----------



## plyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killuchen*
> 
> My house gave me hand pains surprisingly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the bottom left corner was giving me pains between my thumb/pointer finger near my palm. So I went back to my G303 and sold my EC2-A benq on ebay. I think I have some weird hands lol.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> You are not the only one who had that issue, I played a hefty amound with my 2-a & the bottom left of my hand where the padding is between my thumb and index felt not cramped, but more fatigued. Seemed to be from the bottom left corner of the mouse that snugs your palm when holding.
> .


Same here, I liked the white benq so much, but after a month playing, this problem started. Back to FK1+ I go.


----------



## hyp36rmax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plyr*
> 
> I recently got the glossy version of EC1-A, and just a few days of use the scroll started to get stuck, since I always open my mouse to change the cable to paracord, already voided warranty. Heres how to fix the issue, its pretty easy.
> 
> 
> 
> Sand a little bit of the bottom of the circle with some metal tool.


Thank you!!! Have this issue with two of my White EC2A's


----------



## Oneyedrunk

Hey guys

Is there a new black version of the EC2-A with improved side buttons like in the White version?

Thanks.


----------



## SynergyCB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oneyedrunk*
> 
> Hey guys
> 
> Is there a new black version of the EC2-A with improved side buttons like in the White version?
> 
> Thanks.


I would also like to know


----------



## easyXmode

The EC series should be updated with the white version changes. the box i received from amazon had a "new" sticker on the back of the box. unfortunately, mine had a loose scroll wheel so i ended up returning it.


----------



## Oneyedrunk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oneyedrunk*
> 
> Hey guys
> 
> Is there a new black version of the EC2-A with improved side buttons like in the White version?
> 
> Thanks.


Finally got a response from Zowie, thought I should share if anyone else was wondering.
Quote:


> Hi Daniel,
> Currently our EC2-A black are the same as previous batches. As of the moment, there has not been any modifications to the units, but you can keep following to see if there will be changes in the future.
> Best Regards,
> ZOWIE


----------



## PounceAlot

Why can't we just get something like this:



I remember the old DA13 CLG edition looked quite dashing with the black and white contrast.


----------



## SmashTV

Didn't they try that with the Cooller variant EC releases?


----------



## Alya

http://zowie.benq.com/en/news/2017/BenQ-announces-the-ZOWIE-special-edition-FK-and-ZA-white-Series.html

EDIT: Maximillion already posted it in the unspecific thread...like 12 hours ago.


----------



## Hunched

So how many more years until zowie 3360
Why is BenQ money sleeping, or going into Zowie audio products nobody asked for or buys


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> So how many more years until zowie 3360
> Why is BenQ money sleeping, or going into Zowie audio products nobody asked for or buys


I mean it's possible the 3360 zowie is already in development, production, or already produced and just being withheld for release until it's time on a 'roadmap' who knows. I think if any company can get away with selling multiple versions of the same product they're going to try and do that for as long as possible instead of just making one product that supersedes the old products instantly aka drop a 3360 EC and all other versions of EC immediately become irrelevant to majority of users (besides those with budget assuming price would be different )


----------



## t3ram

They are waiting for Christmas with the releases


----------



## d3str0yer

zowie = gold diggers


----------



## Nivity

Zowie have no need to improve their mice, because people buy them anyway.
They throw on some glossy white coating and everyone goes mad.

Will we see a 3360 sensor with improvements on sidebuttons,scroll etc? Maybe. But no need for them lol.
It is the Iphone trend, no need to improve things tbh, throw on some cosmetics and people go insane and buy it








Which I mean, good for Zowie, if it works they continue to cash in for doing nothing really, no development costs


----------



## the1onewolf

Well you know people here are still going to buy the special edition mouse


----------



## Zhuni

I'm actually pretty annoyed at myself. Don't think I'll be able to hold off from a gloss za11. But I feel like a filthy pleb picking up yet another Zowie release with basically no changes.


----------



## the1onewolf

There is something to be said about products that keep their price range consistent. I am not a big of the way some companies like logitech's inflate their initial MSRP release pride and then slash prices by 50% several months later introduce new revisions on products that have only been out for 1 year (sometimes not even). I just feel the early adopters get screwed with some companies.

Zowie don't change but then again neither do their mice









Maybe I just like companies with more consistent product life cycles.

That being said Zowie refreshed their FK not once but twice in 2014.
So you never know ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Something you just don't get lucky with releases and purchases.

This could up like buying the EC CL special edition which was a product with no hardware changes released before/on the cusp of planned major refreshes.


----------



## audax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1onewolf*
> 
> There is something to be said about products that keep their price range consistent. I am not a big of the way some companies like logitech's inflate their initial MSRP release pride and then slash prices by 50% several months later introduce new revisions on products that have only been out for 1 year (sometimes not even). I just feel the early adopters get screwed with some companies.
> 
> Zowie don't change but then again neither do their mice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I just like companies with more consistent product life cycles.
> 
> That being said Zowie refreshed their FK not once but twice in 2014.
> So you never know ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. Something you just don't get lucky with releases and purchases.
> 
> This could up like buying the EC CL special edition which was a product with no hardware changes released before/on the cusp of planned major refreshes.


I disagree with this line of thinking. It's not "consistency in product lines", Logitech is actually doing product research and moving units as they change production. The incremental cost of each new unit or new design goes down as volume shipped increases. You're comparing Zowie to a company that innovates year-to-year in their design lines. See: wireless optical sensors (g403/g900 line), HERO sensors (g403->g603), wireless charging(g403->g703 and g900 -> g903).

What has Zowie done besides recall their mice to fix button issues? It's to the point you're just fanboying for the sake of fanboying.

We can quote PT Barnum when Logitech is able to sell me multiple great mice for $30 while Zowie keeps theirs at $60-$70 years down the line...


----------



## AloneInTheDuck

Logitech for logihands. Zowie have normal shape


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AloneInTheDuck*
> 
> Logitech for logihands. Zowie have normal shape


But Zowie has soap bar wax for coating and abnormal grip thinness alongside anti-consumer scroll wheels.

Or are you using a blanket statement to project your own preferences?


----------



## easyXmode

I wish that zowie would go back to their old coating. my benq fk2 has a much smoother texture than my yellow fk1.


----------



## saltedham

i liked the grainy/matte? coating the zowie yellow logo fk1/2 had


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AloneInTheDuck*
> 
> Logitech for logihands. Zowie have normal shape


If you don't mind god awful buttons, god awful scroll, god awful coating, and god awful build quality on the EC series, sure go ahead.


----------



## Hunched

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> If you don't mind god awful buttons, god awful scroll, god awful coating, and god awful build quality on the EC series, sure go ahead.


I find scroll wheels that dont rattle, uniform clicks, and right clicks that last longer than a year to be better quality.
Also Logitech has some of the absolute worst cables and apparently mouse feet now too.
Replacing mouse feet, cables, opening the mouse to fix the loose scrolls, RMAing till you get uniform l/r clicks that also aren't abnormally loose with a bunch of give or also rattling when moving or rattling sensors.................................
I'm not into rebuilding Logitech mice from the ground up to have a product that isn't annoying like everyone else seems to be okay with doing.

Just get literally any other mouse with a 3360 or a variant of it and you're better off than going with Logitech, these new start ups have better build quality.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AloneInTheDuck*
> 
> Logitech for logihands. Zowie have normal shape


It's weird.
I tried EC2, FK1,FK2, ZA 13,ZA12.
Did not like the shape on any of them.

So I guess Zowie not for shape for me.
I don't like logitech shapes either.

Revel, DM1 Pro S, Kana = Good shapes which are not too long.
FK1,FK2 does not come close to those shapes. FK1 is also long af, could hardly reach the scroll on FK1 and FK1+ especially since its even fatter and harder to grip.

But then again, the 16-step scroll is reason enough for me to never use a zowie mouse again, annoying af when you hardly scroll when using it.


----------



## Alya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hunched*
> 
> I find scroll wheels that dont rattle, uniform clicks, and right clicks that last longer than a year to be better quality.
> Also Logitech has some of the absolute worst cables and apparently mouse feet now too.
> Replacing mouse feet, cables, opening the mouse to fix the loose scrolls, RMAing till you get uniform l/r clicks that also aren't abnormally loose with a bunch of give or also rattling when moving or rattling sensors.................................
> I'm not into rebuilding Logitech mice from the ground up to have a product that isn't annoying like everyone else seems to be okay with doing.
> 
> Just get literally any other mouse with a 3360 or a variant of it and you're better off than going with Logitech, these new start ups have better build quality.


Zowie has all of the above though, bad scroll wheels that rattle (EC series is notorious for it), uneven clicks (one of my only Zowie mice, EC2-A has uneven clicks), only thing that my Zowie mice don't suffer from is a bad cable.

Used EC2, FK2, AM, ZA13, all of them were uncomfortable after long periods of use.

Kana/WMO and Kinzu are basically gloves for my hands. Sensei clones are too large.


----------



## AloneInTheDuck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> If you don't mind god awful buttons, god awful scroll, god awful coating, and god awful build quality on the EC series, sure go ahead.


but I did not say that they are good mice.
Clicks on most mice without separate buttons are not pleasant.
The wheel in everyday use almost everywhere is not convenient, except for those mice where there is an acceleration of the wheel (very convenient thing, I'm used to it). As for the wheel in the games - I do not care, if only it don't have jump bug.
If you buy zowie - get ready to finish it by own hand. Same story with other mice


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alya*
> 
> If you don't mind god awful buttons, god awful scroll, god awful coating, and god awful build quality on the EC series, sure go ahead.


I've got 0 issues with my Ec2-a. Maybe i'm a dark horse in that regard, either way i love the EC series a hell of a lot.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> I've got 0 issues with my Ec2-a. Maybe i'm a dark horse in that regard, either way i love the EC series a hell of a lot.


There has been a few lemons coming out ever since the benQ acquisition. I've had some personally and the sensors weren't even tracking


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> There has been a few lemons coming out ever since the benQ acquisition. I've had some personally and the sensors weren't even tracking


Yea that is some crap and i'd be mad too. I've had some BenQ versions with 0 issues as well, so as i said. Guess i'm just dumb lucky.

My main Zowie is the pre-BenQ white logo version. Has held up quite nicely over the last year and a half.


----------



## b0z0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PhiZaRoaH*
> 
> Yea that is some crap and i'd be mad too. I've had some BenQ versions with 0 issues as well, so as i said. Guess i'm just dumb lucky.
> 
> My main Zowie is the pre-BenQ white logo version. Has held up quite nicely over the last year and a half.


Mine pre-BenQ Ec2-a is amazing also. Only thing I hate is the terrible coating


----------



## ncck

"Special Editions" of ZA and FK are up: http://www.zowiedirect.com/mice/special-edition.html


----------



## VESPA5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ncck*
> 
> "Special Editions" of ZA and FK are up: http://www.zowiedirect.com/mice/special-edition.html


Nice. Rather than implement a newer sensor and maybe better side buttons (EC Series), just re-distribute the same mice with the same dated 3310 sensor in glossy white and hooray, more revenue!







Final Mouse is pulling the exact opposite (after the Scream One bust, I dunno if I could buy another FM mouse) only it's the same Classic Ergo shape with a 3360 sensor. smh, BenQ/Zowie, smh.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Nice. Rather than implement a newer sensor and maybe better side buttons (EC Series), just re-distribute the same mice with the same dated 3310 sensor in glossy white and hooray, more revenue!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Final Mouse is pulling the exact opposite (after the Scream One bust, I dunno if I could buy another FM mouse) only it's the same Classic Ergo shape with a 3360 sensor. smh, BenQ/Zowie, smh.


FM is still FM tho, don't expect much...


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VESPA5*
> 
> Nice. Rather than implement a newer sensor and maybe better side buttons (EC Series), just re-distribute the same mice with the same dated 3310 sensor in glossy white and hooray, more revenue!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Final Mouse is pulling the exact opposite (after the Scream One bust, I dunno if I could buy another FM mouse) only it's the same Classic Ergo shape with a 3360 sensor. smh, BenQ/Zowie, smh.


Side buttons are certainly better on the white version of the ec series.

Edit: Main buttons should be lighter on the white ambi versions too. I might cop one and see how it feels.


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *b0z0*
> 
> Mine pre-BenQ Ec2-a is amazing also. Only thing I hate is the terrible coating


Sadly the shell of mine is making some cracking sounds and the cable is all twisted up. I could just replace the cable but I don't know how to deal with the shell.

Wouldn't buy another EC2-A because I HATE the coating the BenQs got.


----------



## senileoldman

Why don't you nerds just buy quality and go for a Logitech mouse.

There are a thousand mice cheaper and better built than Zowie's.

I don't understand the fanatism going around Zowie anymore.


----------



## ncck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senileoldman*
> 
> Why don't you nerds just buy quality and go for a Logitech mouse.
> 
> There are a thousand mice cheaper and better built than Zowie's.
> 
> I don't understand the fanatism going around Zowie anymore.


It's just the shape, weight, and cable that they really have going for them - shape being the deciding factor for many users


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senileoldman*
> 
> Why don't you nerds just buy quality and go for a Logitech mouse.
> 
> There are a thousand mice cheaper and better built than Zowie's.
> 
> I don't understand the fanatism going around Zowie anymore.


They have 3 shapes 2 ambi(Fk & Za)1 ergo(Ec).

The ambi shapes have 3 sizes to each & the ergo has 2. People can harp on Zowie as much as they want about not fixing somethings on their mice in a timely manner. Or being slow to upgrade internals.

Still they have things going for them, again as Ncck said they have shape and weight & cord on their side which goes a long long way for a majority. No software is simple, not better. Simplicity especially for the masses, rules.

Comfort 9.5/10 times is king.

No one on the market is offering 3 shapes with different 6 sizes LET alone 2 of the shapes being ambi?? I've seen countless people complain on these forums and others about how no one offers enough good ambi mice. Here Zowie offers 2 of their 3 in 6 different sizes. If that isn't trying idk what is.

Build quality varies for companies, seen that g403 thread of issues page after page?? It's rough in there. Lol i have never had an issue with any mouse i've purchased besides the ergo Finalmouse. Some people just seem to be more unlucky than others(looking at you Ve5pa).

Zowie can do things better sure but who couldn't??

They have shapes in size ranges and it works. When they drop the 3360 variants they will continue to sale like hotcakes. That is all a lot are awaiting.

If they bring back the Zowie Mico they would have plenty going banana's over that as well. Tiny hands need love too.

So idk how you don't see why Zowie has so many fans. Couldn't be any clearer.


----------



## Curseair

I'm waiting for an updated Zowie FK2 release, Using a Logitech G403 at the moment and it feels clumsy in my hands.


----------



## Nivity

Zowie got 0 shapes that I like.
Leaving the other bad stuff aside, there is just not any shape that I like.
FK2 too narrow, FK1 way too long, FK1+ same but even bigger.
ZA13 usable but not a favorite shape.
ZA12 too bulky with the hump
ZA11, well it is a monster, unusable.

EC1, same, mega monster mouse.
EC2, usable, probably the most ok of the lot ,but not a favorite.


----------



## vanir1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Zowie got 0 shapes that I like.
> Leaving the other bad stuff aside, there is just not any shape that I like.
> FK2 too narrow, FK1 way too long, FK1+ same but even bigger.
> ZA13 usable but not a favorite shape.
> ZA12 too bulky with the hump
> ZA11, well it is a monster, unusable.
> 
> EC1, same, mega monster mouse.
> EC2, usable, probably the most ok of the lot ,but not a favorite.


Wow, your hands are picky then haha.
For me the ZA13 was very good, but the ZA12 is just literally perfect. FK2 was usable but too narrow as you said. The EC2 was pretty good at first but after a year of using ambi mice I couldn't go back to it.
So for me ZA12 > literally any other mouse out there yet.


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanir1337*
> 
> Wow, your hands are picky then haha.
> For me the ZA13 was very good, but the ZA12 is just literally perfect. FK2 was usable but too narrow as you said. The EC2 was pretty good at first but after a year of using ambi mice I couldn't go back to it.
> So for me ZA12 > literally any other mouse out there yet.


That Za12 is a little diamond in the rough.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Zowie got 0 shapes that I like.
> Leaving the other bad stuff aside, there is just not any shape that I like.
> FK2 too narrow, FK1 way too long, FK1+ same but even bigger.
> ZA13 usable but not a favorite shape.
> ZA12 too bulky with the hump
> ZA11, well it is a monster, unusable.
> 
> EC1, same, mega monster mouse.
> EC2, usable, probably the most ok of the lot ,but not a favorite.


100% understandable. The hand likes what it likes.


----------



## Nivity

A shorter FK1 would be perfect for me


----------



## senileoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> A shorter FK1 would be perfect for me


FK2...

If you want a wide, but short ambi mouse, give the G9x with the wide shell a go.


----------



## TriviumKM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> A shorter FK1 would be perfect for me


Me and you both.

FK2+ is what i wanted after they announced the FK1+, too bad it never came


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senileoldman*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> A shorter FK1 would be perfect for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FK2...
> 
> If you want a wide, but short ambi mouse, give the G9x with the wide shell a go.
Click to expand...

As I said in my post above, FK2 is way too narrow.
Hence the shorter FK1, or as the above person said. FK2+
And no I will not use ancient G9x


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## Leopardi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *senileoldman*
> 
> FK2...
> 
> If you want a wide, but short ambi mouse, give the G9x with the wide shell a go.


FK2 is too narrow. FK2+ would be perfect.


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## xdmcdantex

Here is my review of the ec2-a this is my first review using an actual editing software, still learning how all this works...

I will be reviewing the EC1-A next in about a week. Rewatching the video i realize that my voice and tone sound stiff. I think im going to experiment with a more loose script so i can talk more naturally for my next review. Right now my process is type out what i want to say and read it word for word.

Let me know what you think i did well on the video and what needs to be improved. Trying to get some input for what needs to be cut from my videos or how i need to change them for better quality.
If you want please subscribe and/or like the video as it really helps me out since i am a new channel.

https://youtu.be/_ZYFazRqiDw


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## xdmcdantex

Still new to all this, this is a different style of video format. Still organized but not reading 1:1 from a script so hopefully it sounds more natural and more lively. Doing time stamps in description for people that want to skip to certain parts. Did a different title as well it looked like a majority of people think the Veteran title sounds bad. Let me know what you think of this style of video and if you would like to see more like this. If there is any information that i left out that you would want in the video (besides hand size, i forgot that after i had it uploaded my hand size is 19.4 cm long and 10.4 cm wide) im mostly focusing on information as it relates to CSGO and my personal experience with the mouse as other more technical information can be found elsewhere.

My hand size is 19.4cm long and 10.4cm wide, forgot to mention that in the video and i already uploaded by the time i realized


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