# Paypal: Do not GIFT payments!



## ENTERPRISE

Hey members of Overclock.Net.









This is more of a suggestion I am making to the entire membership.

Recently and of course in the past there have been some sale issues in our Market place with regards to members being asked to Gift payments via Paypal for purchased items. I must urge all of you to *NOT* use the Gift option in Paypal for payment of either Items or Services rendered.

Paypal will NOT offer protection against scamming or fraud if a payment is made using the Gift option. Please remember that using the Overclock.Net Marketplace is done at the risk of the members. We will not take responsibility as an entity for sales/trades gone wrong. We will of course advise and hold members accountable to their actions. However we do not offer financial reparation. Using Paypal as a method of payment offers you the _FINANCIAL_ security OCN cannot. If you use the Gift option to pay for items/services then you are removing your own personal security net against scammers. Do not let users persuade you to Gift a payment. If they are unwilling to accept the charges Paypal imposes, that is there look out, not yours !

While we do our best to make sure OCN has a safe Marketplace, there is only so much we the Staff can do to protect you. So please always take that step to further protect yourself by using Paypal and NOT using the Gift option. Remember this is the internet, it is not a secure environment.

Also not to mention and thanks goes to Bitemarks and bloodstains, It is even against Paypals TOS and as such against our marketplace rules.
Quote:


> *5.* PayPal: NO fees, Credit Card or other with the exception of shipping and handling may be assessed and NO gift payments are allowed.
> 
> This includes, but is not limited to, charging extra or making the buyer cover PayPal service fees on credit card based PayPal payments. As we wish to comply as closely as possible with PayPal's guidelines, we will not allow any member to impose an extra "tax" for CC-based PayPal payments. "You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method."
> For your convenience, here is the excerpted section from the User Agreement. You may not request or offer a 'gift' or 'personal payment(s) to circumvent the associated fees.This will negate any possible paypal claim!
> *4.2 Receiving Payments for Commercial Transactions and Personal Transactions.*
> 1a. Fees depend on whether you are making a commercial transaction or a personal transaction. A commercial transaction involves buying and selling goods or services, and payments received when you send a "request money" using PayPal. A personal transaction involves sending money to and receiving money from friends and family without making a purchase.
> 1b. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a personal payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept personal payments.


http://www.overclock.net/marketplace-rules/60879-sale-wanted-section-rules-wip.html

As an Update. OCN Will no longer provide protection for you on OCN nor assist you with trades gone wrong if the GIFT payment option was used, It is a drain on the staff. So in essence you will get no protection at all if you use the Gift option. So save yourself a headache and avoid GIFT payments at all times.

Thank You,
ENTERPRISE


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## Bitemarks and bloodstains

Just to add to that it is against paypals ToS to use gift payments to pay for goods and as such we have to abide by paypals ToS.
Quote:


> *5.* PayPal: NO fees, Credit Card or other with the exception of shipping and handling may be assessed and NO gift payments are allowed.
> 
> This includes, but is not limited to, charging extra or making the buyer cover PayPal service fees on credit card based PayPal payments. As we wish to comply as closely as possible with PayPal's guidelines, we will not allow any member to impose an extra "tax" for CC-based PayPal payments. "You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method."
> For your convenience, here is the excerpted section from the User Agreement. You may not request or offer a 'gift' or 'personal payment(s) to circumvent the associated fees.This will negate any possible paypal claim!
> *4.2 Receiving Payments for Commercial Transactions and Personal Transactions.*
> 1a. Fees depend on whether you are making a commercial transaction or a personal transaction. A commercial transaction involves buying and selling goods or services, and payments received when you send a "request money" using PayPal. A personal transaction involves sending money to and receiving money from friends and family without making a purchase.
> 1b. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a personal payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept personal payments.


http://www.overclock.net/marketplace-rules/60879-sale-wanted-section-rules-wip.html


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## ENTERPRISE

Indeed ! Good mention.


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## ENTERPRISE

Quick bump.


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## RyanRacer48

Yes, this should be a dang pop up when you enter the FS section. lol









You live, you learn, then you get lulz over your stupidity.

Bump, to possibly save someone else from making a bad decision.


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## ENTERPRISE

Bump


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## runeazn

wait wait wait wasnt this a sticky topic right above the Marketplace How the heck did they miss that..


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## ENTERPRISE

Was it ? I will have to take a look.


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## runeazn

atleast thats where i got my info..

vague i remember it was there but noneless i found a other post that is STICKY STICKied








http://www.overclock.net/marketplace...tml#post641152
him he posted at rule number 5 no paypal gift

and sticky http://www.overclock.net/cooling-pro...ml#post7482188

by duke ETC etc many stickies tell not to use gift.


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## ENTERPRISE

Reminder, please do not use Gift payments. Protect yourself people !


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## iamwardicus

I would vote this be stickied at the top of the For Sale forums.


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## ENTERPRISE

Bump


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## Bitemarks and bloodstains

BUMP!!!!!
Also after a talk with The Duke any transaction @ OCN with a paypal 'gift' type payment will NOT be addressed by staff in any way shape or form what so ever
So not only do you lose PayPals protection you lose our protection aswell


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## pinkgirl

comfused.....lol


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## Geglamash

Quote:



Originally Posted by *pinkgirl*


comfused.....lol


When sending a payment through Paypal, you have the option to send what type of payment.
If you send payment entitled for "goods", the recipient of your payment will be charged with roughly a 3%-4% fee for using Paypal. However, you will retain protection through Paypal should there be a dispute and you want to open a case.
If you send payment entitled for "personal" or a gift, the recipient will not be slapped with those pesky fees. However, you will *not* have any buyer protection, leaving you at the mercy of the seller should you receive something lesser than expected.


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## rockosmodlife

I really like that this is put in writing.


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## r31ncarnat3d

Just wanted to give a quick addon as well:

The same goes for bank transfers. If you want to do a direct transfer, _make sure_ you are 100% comfortable with the person, else pursue some other course of payment. Like PayPal Gift, there is absolutely no protection when you do a direct bank transfer.


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## DPxD3v

If the seller is that bothered about the PayPal fees there is a calculator to work out the fees so if the item is Â£6 you send Â£6.42 to cover it and they get the amount. NEVER use gifted and keeps pms etc


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## Bitemarks and bloodstains

Time for a bump as people are still using the gift option, which is not only against our marketplace rules but PayPal's user agreement and loses you all protection from Paypal and OCN.


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## t-ramp

Indeed. I don't use PayPal heavily, but it wasn't hard to decide to abide by the rules.


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## ENTERPRISE

Bump


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## WC_EEND

I never actually knew about this until I read the thread. Thanks for pointing it out


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## Malcolm

Added this to my sig.


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## KarmaKiller

Another bump so members can see this.. VERY IMPORTANT. Protect yourself while following the rules!


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## PCCstudent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r31ncarnat3d*
> 
> Just wanted to give a quick addon as well:
> The same goes for bank transfers. If you want to do a direct transfer, _make sure_ you are 100% comfortable with the person, else pursue some other course of payment. Like PayPal Gift, there is absolutely no protection when you do a direct bank transfer.


My bank account is the first place PayPal goes to to get money to pay for a purchase I made.If there is no money (or not enough) they charge my credit card.Is this the inapropriate bank transfer linkage that you speak about? It was PayPal that wanted to link my bank account to charges.Perhaps you are speaking of some other circumstance and I have it all wrong.I want to thank the marketplace mods for making our marketplace as safe as it is (I would not use any other).Myself I look as using the marketplace as a privlidge,not a right.Thanks.


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## btwalter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCCstudent*
> 
> My bank account is the first place PayPal goes to to get money to pay for a purchase I made.If there is no money (or not enough) they charge my credit card.Is the the inapropriate bank transfer linkage that you speak about? It was PayPal that wanted to link my bank account to charges.Perhaps you are speaking of some other circumstance and I have it all wrong.I want to thank the marketplace mods for making our marketplace as safe as it is (I would not use any other).Myself I look as using the marketplace as a privlidge,not a right.Thanks.


No, he means a direct wire transfer.

Even if Paypal pulls from your bank account it's still covered under protection by PayPal. even you bank should be able to cover it as a unauth'd transaction. However, a direct wire transfer, is not covered.


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## Relevant Wing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *btwalter*
> 
> No, he means a direct wire transfer.
> Even if Paypal pulls from your bank account it's still covered under protection by PayPal. even you bank should be able to cover it as a unauth'd transaction. However, a direct wire transfer, is not covered.


Actually as a long time user of Paypal and ebay, yes the terms do say that, but Its not very well enforced by paypal. your best bet is to always pay with paypal funds or a credit card to offer the most protection through paypal.


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## wint0nic

Just file a chargeback with your CC company if you gift someone and they do not deliver.


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## Bitemarks and bloodstains

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wint0nic*
> 
> Just file a chargeback with your CC company if you gift someone and they do not deliver.


Or follow PayPals and our rules by not using gift payments.
I would like to add any seller found asking for gift payment could be subject to a marketplace ban.


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## Bal3Wolf

problem i see is some sellers are asking buyers to pay extra to cover paypal fees if i recall thats against paypals rules also. But its a great idea to try to get users not to use the gift option just alot of hassle.


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## W4LNUT5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bal3Wolf*
> 
> problem i see is some sellers are asking buyers to pay extra to cover paypal fees if i recall thats against paypals rules also. But its a great idea to try to get users not to use the gift option just alot of hassle.


Deliberately asking the buyer to pay for fees is not allowed either. The only real recourse a seller has is to incorporate the fees into the price from the start of their sale. It keeps people up front and honest with their price.

If I was asking $20 for an item, then told you I also needed $3 for fees, then that's a no no.

If I was simply asking $23 from the beginning, then that's perfectly fine.


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## Grath

Ohh I never knew about this. I hate the Paypal fees when you are sitting on the edge of your received payment so you can get that oh so dearly wanted present for your self lol. I guess we'll just have to do the math before we sell our stuff.


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## Schmuckley

i knew about the rule..now i know why :







:


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## kiwwanna

I've been in the middle of transactions and asked to gift, then asked to pay the fees for the seller... Needless to say I backed out of the deal (though sellers got annoyed as I didn't like what was asked)

Bottom line know the rules and follow them, besides we're all suppose to read the rules before using the Marketplace aren't we? At least common sense would be to look at them


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## ljason8eg

Yeah that's pretty shady. Whenever I sell something I just do the math and adjust my asking price accordingly. I have even had some people pay me in gift payments even though I did not ask them to do so. While that is nice and all, its not really a smart thing to do.


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## PCCstudent

Not 1 hour after this thread ran yesterday a seller didn't ask me to gift,he told me to gift.I honestly do not know what is wrong with people today.


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## Bitemarks and bloodstains

To add to this please report any sellers asking for gift payments so we can take action and keep the marketplace as safe as possible.


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## Philliesfan

mmmm this adds concern with a deal I have with a well known OCN member, Lets hope their word is as good as they say it is


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## GeforceGTS

People usually send me payment as a gift without me even asking D;

I forget to remind them sometimes but once it's done, it's done.. I never send payment as a gift though, I'm far to paranoid. I won't ship to an address that is different to the paypal address too.


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## bmaverick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*
> 
> Deliberately asking the buyer to pay for fees is not allowed either. The only real recourse a seller has is to incorporate the fees into the price from the start of their sale. It keeps people up front and honest with their price.
> If I was asking $20 for an item, then told you I also needed $3 for fees, then that's a no no.
> If I was simply asking $23 from the beginning, then that's perfectly fine.


This is the best practice overall. Being up front with the total cost and the product offered.

In the past two years, I've had several buyers offer to pay the seller via "gift" payment using PP. I ususally respond with a note of why it's NOT in their best interest as a buyer to do it. Many people who are new to PP don't understand how the "goods" and "gift" works.

If a buyer sends payment for an item you are selling and you have the item listed as for your country of origin and then find out they want the product sent someplace else, I either refund the money OR ask them to make up the shipping difference via "gift" since shipping costs are not tangable goods. This is the only time "gift" would have any option of being used. So, sending an item domestically in the USA may cost $6.10. Going to the UK it's $14.74. There is a $8.64 difference to be adjusted for. Trying to figure out PP fees and the exact postage difference would be a pain under "goods" vs. a non-tangable "gift".

.


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## FiShBuRn

I think ive read this thread a little to late...nice!

Very nice suggestion.


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## NKrader

what i want to know is who thought paypal would protect you when they dont get their cut?

you are going around them charging you fees.. i figured everyone knew that was the danger of the territory.. i still use em and i usually end up paying the fee for the seller.


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## W4LNUT5

This deserves more spotlight


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## NKrader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *W4LNUT5*
> 
> This deserves more spotlight


no it doesnt


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## trumpet-205

Well, I simply choose not to accept PayPal, not that PayPal offers good protection or anything.


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## -X3-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trumpet-205*
> 
> Well, I simply choose not to accept PayPal, not that PayPal offers good protection or anything.


A good protection for the buyer at least


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## punker

never mind


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## PCCstudent

For me,when the sale is only 40.00 or so and the seller says the fees are too much I get suspicious.Then on the otherside when the sale is 400.00 I simply do not want to go without any protection. Reporting is what the site moderators are calling a last resort, personally I would rather not report but also not be asked to gift.


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## nvidiaftw12

Throw in a free bump, as this is fairly important, and I hadn't seen it 'til today.


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## XAslanX

I think there should be a pop up message in the for sale section when you click the pm button on a classified with a warning about sending gift payments is at your own risk and maybe a link to this thread within it. As a thread in the suggestion forum isn't easily seen day to day.


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## Sethy666

Okay, I understand this from a merchantile perspective,,,

What about prizes for say... a Foldathon. Should that be a gift or a payment?


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## van13330gg

Prizes are meant to be given away without getting anything back....And this thread deserves more look at it too.


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## Sethy666

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *van13330gg*
> 
> *Prizes are meant to be given away without getting anything back*....And this thread deserves more look at it too.


I understand that.









Im thing if the prize money goes astray on Paypal's end... it would appear there is no protection or come back as a gift...

And yes, this thread needs more exposure.


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## kkorky

On no less than 3 occasions, i have been asked if i would mind paying by the gift method in Paypal -the catch?

Well all three of these sellers had rep over 30+ and are long time members of this forum!

It was quite funny, listening to the various 'psalms' about how trustworthy they are, and to not trust them is insulting etc.

"Go ask anyone that knows me on the forum and you will see that im trustworthy"

Again, more laughter on my side, then i go for the jugular "if i pay you with the gift method, i will have no protection, should i receive faulty goods etc'

The reply?

This is the best part: *ABSOLUTELY NONE ON ALL THREE OCCASIONS!*

My coup de grace:" i dont care who you are and how much rep you have, i will not shop from you without a safety net"

That usually kills the transaction dead in it's steps, and consigns me to their list of a**holes i guess.

A Badge i wear with pride


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## Bitemarks and bloodstains

If anyone is asked to gift a payment in the future please report the message using the  button and we will deal with it.


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## Schmuckley

I know someone who got burned to the tune of around $2-300 by gifting a payment.I wouldn't recommend it.Not to say there aren't some people I do trust on OCN


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## 996gt2

I'm going to post a counter-argument here. I understand that new buyers and sellers should be warned about using the gift option since it offers no protection, but for experienced buyers and sellers, I think that they should be allowed to make their own decisions regarding paypal gift.

I am a member of several popular photography forums, where gear that costs much more than any computer part gets sold and is paid for using the gift option. We're not talking about a $400 graphics card here, but rather things like a $4000 lens or lighting setup. As long as you are dealing with a reputable seller, I think that a buyer should not be denied the right to make their own decision. I mean, if you bought something on Craigslist and paid cash, it is essentially the same as using Paypal gift because you also have no "protection" after the sale. And when you buy something on Craigslist, you have no idea how reputable the seller is. At least on forums like this, you can be relatively sure that a trader with high Heatware/trader rep would not want to ruin their online selling reputation with the negative feedback that even 1 bad transaction can lead to. 1 negative feedback is all that it takes to turn many potential buyers away, and once you've built up a decent amount of online feedback, the last thing that you'd want to do is ruin it.


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## Bitemarks and bloodstains

The problem with your argument is that paying for goods or services with the gift option is against PayPal's EULA.
Quote:


> 4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments


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## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *996gt2*
> 
> I'm going to post a counter-argument here. I understand that new buyers and sellers should be warned about using the gift option since it offers no protection, but for experienced buyers and sellers, I think that they should be allowed to make their own decisions regarding paypal gift.
> I am a member of several popular photography forums, where gear that costs much more than any computer part gets sold and is paid for using the gift option. We're not talking about a $400 graphics card here, but rather things like a $4000 lens or lighting setup. As long as you are dealing with a reputable seller, I think that a buyer should not be denied the right to make their own decision. I mean, if you bought something on Craigslist and paid cash, it is essentially the same as using Paypal gift because you also have no "protection" after the sale. And when you buy something on Craigslist, you have no idea how reputable the seller is. At least on forums like this, you can be relatively sure that a trader with high Heatware/trader rep would not want to ruin their online selling reputation with the negative feedback that even 1 bad transaction can lead to. 1 negative feedback is all that it takes to turn many potential buyers away, and once you've built up a decent amount of online feedback, the last thing that you'd want to do is ruin it.


I fully agree with & understand your point, but all it takes is one transaction to go wrong, and ok, so they get a - rep against their name, and you get left trying to pick up the pieces.

Add to that the new guy is going to be dis believed no matter how much in the right they were, as opposed to the seller with great rep who will try to spin the situation to their good.

I have been selling on e bay since 2006, and i have a 100% rep, i have shopped from very reputable dealers who have for all intense and purposes sometimes tried to deal outside of e bay, and i always turn them down.
Im not saying that you are wrong, nor that you point is invalid-far from it, im just saying, its better to be safe than sorry









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bitemarks and bloodstains*
> 
> The problem with your argument is that paying for goods or services with the gift option is against PayPal's EULA.


*
THIS^^*


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## NKrader

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkorky*
> 
> THIS^^[/B]


becuase most of people care about breaking rules, when?


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## Bitemarks and bloodstains

When the consequences make it not worth it, in this case asking for gift payments can result in being banned from the marketplace.


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## GREG MISO

I have encountered many people on here asking to gift and i flat out refused and will not do businuess with them. This thread needs to be stickied in the marketplace as it is a serious issue that hurts people.


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## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GREG MISO*
> 
> I have encountered many people on here asking to gift and i flat out refused and will not do businuess with them. This thread needs to be stickied in the marketplace as it is a serious issue that hurts people.


This type of thing is already stickied


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## Bitemarks and bloodstains

As I said before if anyone is asked to gift a payment in the future please report the message using the  button and we will deal with it.


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## GREG MISO

Really? I never noticed it. There should be a pop up before you enter the marketplace.


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## Bitemarks and bloodstains

Here is a screenshot of the main components section sticky.


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## kkorky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NKrader*
> 
> becuase most of people care about breaking rules, when?


Hardly a mature outlook on the issue at hand mate-c'mon, is that all you have to say?

This isnt about oneupmanship, its about helping protect both the buyer and the seller from unnecessary /unsavoury incidents that may happen.

That way things run smoothly and both parties are happy-just because some people break the rules, does not mean that we have to be sheeple and follow suit









I am not a person that follows rules just because they are there-i question their validity and then act accordingly, but in this case, it makes sense.(imho)


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## ENTERPRISE

Bump, we have had a few issues recently with members Gifting payments via Paypal and getting into bother. Please do NOT use Gift as a method of payment on Paypal.


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## FCSElite

Well thank you for the heads up never knew that nor dealt with onlien trade , but it is good to know


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## ENTERPRISE

No problem


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## Twist86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bal3Wolf*
> 
> problem i see is some sellers are asking buyers to pay extra to cover paypal fees if i recall thats against paypals rules also. But its a great idea to try to get users not to use the gift option just alot of hassle.


Reason I never say anything....if I'm going to sell it for $50 and paypal takes $5 then I would list it up as $55 shipped. I do this all the time with Ebay otherwise I would get ravaged by the fee hits. To give you a idea how bad Ebay is I sell a item for $42 and they take $7 after Ebay and Paypal take a full % cut off me.


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## Bitemarks and bloodstains

Bump we are still seeing issues with members asking for gift payments, this is a violation of PayPal's rules as well as OCN's.

As a result of the number of members asking for gift payments/personal payments we have adjusted our policies, any member found asking for a gift/personal payment will be permanently banned from the marketplace.

This along with the FS/wanted section rules thread are the only warnings we will be giving.

If you are asked to gift a payment please report the message or post by using the  button.


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## TeamBlue

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bitemarks and bloodstains*
> 
> Bump we are still seeing issues with members asking for gift payments, this is a violation of PayPal's rules as well as OCN's.
> 
> As a result of the number of members asking for gift payments/personal payments we have adjusted our policies, any member found asking for a gift/personal payment will be permanently banned from the marketplace.
> 
> This along with the FS/wanted section rules thread are the only warnings we will be giving.
> 
> If you are asked to gift a payment please report the message or post by using the  button.


So if a member asked for a gift payment, I refused, and then completed a successful transaction, should I be reporting them? I want to be in full compliance with the Gestapo lol.


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## TUDJ

We would like to be made aware of anyone who is requesting Gift payments, the fact you completed the transaction by other means won't stop them trying it with the next person who will then be left vulnerable.


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## coachmark2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bitemarks and bloodstains*
> 
> Bump we are still seeing issues with members asking for gift payments, this is a violation of PayPal's rules as well as OCN's.
> 
> *As a result of the number of members asking for gift payments/personal payments we have adjusted our policies, any member found asking for a gift/personal payment will be permanently banned from the marketplace.*
> 
> This along with the FS/wanted section rules thread are the only warnings we will be giving.
> 
> If you are asked to gift a payment please report the message or post by using the  button.












That seems just a bit harsh don't you think? The marketplace is becoming harder and harder to use to the point where I don't plan on selling things here much anymore. Which is a shame because it would be great to send some well-cared-for gear to an honest user who's willing to pay.


Spoiler: Other restrictions on the marketplace that are making it very difficult to use



-Must have a picture with username and date by the item
- Why? To verify that you actually have it? The 35 rep requirement should handle that
-BNIB items are banned unless a moderator approves of it and even then you cannot sell at a profit
- Why again? If I buy a CPU at Microcenter for $100 that retails on Newegg for $200, and I want to sell it BNIB for $150, why is that bad? I'm profiting, the user on the other end is getting a MUCH better deal on a CPU... I don't understand. Nowadays, if I have a BNIB item, I won't sell it here anymore.


No gift payments
-Okay....EULA. I get that. Everyone should just use no-fee Amazon payments or other services.








-Insta-ban for asking for a gift payment
- Disagree. Too harsh for a first offense. Warning should be served first, then the next time, you're toast.


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## MistaBernie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coachmark2*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That seems just a bit harsh don't you think? The marketplace is becoming harder and harder to use to the point where I don't plan on selling things here much anymore. Which is a shame because it would be great to send some well-cared-for gear to an honest user who's willing to pay.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Other restrictions on the marketplace that are making it very difficult to use
> 
> 
> 
> -Must have a picture with username and date by the item
> - Why? To verify that you actually have it? The 35 rep requirement should handle that
> -BNIB items are banned unless a moderator approves of it and even then you cannot sell at a profit
> - Why again? If I buy a CPU at Microcenter for $100 that retails on Newegg for $200, and I want to sell it BNIB for $150, why is that bad? I'm profiting, the user on the other end is getting a MUCH better deal on a CPU... I don't understand. Nowadays, if I have a BNIB item, I won't sell it here anymore.
> 
> 
> No gift payments
> -Okay....EULA. I get that. Everyone should just use no-fee Amazon payments or other services.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Insta-ban for asking for a gift payment
> - Disagree. Too harsh for a first offense. Warning should be served first, then the next time, you're toast.


A rep requirement doesn't prove ownership of anything - that doesn't even make sense. Also, the use of 'gift payments' via Paypal is not only against the EULA of Paypal, but it's simply dumb if you're using it to pay for (or receive) payment for goods online from someone you've only ever met online. Using the gift method removes all the protections afforded by the use of regular payments. If you purchase something from someone and it's not as described, you have recourse. If you paid with gift, you're out of luck in the eyes of Paypal.

In terms of selling 'for profit', and a restriction on selling BNIB items, we do not want the marketplace to turn into an avenue for people to be moving large amounts of stuff or profiting off of other members. If you end up picking up that processor at MC for $100 and want to sell it for $150? That's fine -- you simply can't do it here. There are plenty of other avenues for sale of your items if you want to profit.

Remember - the idea is that the marketplace is a 'privilege' for our users and community; if you abuse it, you get banned from it (or from OCN). The rules we have set forth have been designed in order to protect the users that want to use the marketplace as intended - a place to sell their used gear to other enthusiasts. We are a technical forum first and foremost, and the ultimate goal is to bolster the community by adding members that want to be part of the tech enthusiast crowd, not by getting people to join simply to buy and sell in our marketplace.

The rule has been updated and is clearly laid out. It was done so to protect our members. You agreed to follow the TOS and other rules of the site when you signed up. Ignorance of the rule does not excuse you from the rule. I'm sorry if that seems harsh or overdone, but I think your tune would change quite a bit if you've ever had an issue with a for sale ad here.


----------



## TeamBlue

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MistaBernie*
> 
> A rep requirement doesn't prove ownership of anything - that doesn't even make sense. Also, the use of 'gift payments' via Paypal is not only against the EULA of Paypal, but it's simply dumb if you're using it to pay for (or receive) payment for goods online from someone you've only ever met online. Using the gift method removes all the protections afforded by the use of regular payments. If you purchase something from someone and it's not as described, you have recourse. If you paid with gift, you're out of luck in the eyes of Paypal.
> 
> In terms of selling 'for profit', and a restriction on selling BNIB items, we do not want the marketplace to turn into an avenue for people to be moving large amounts of stuff or profiting off of other members. If you end up picking up that processor at MC for $100 and want to sell it for $150? That's fine -- you simply can't do it here. There are plenty of other avenues for sale of your items if you want to profit.
> 
> Remember - the idea is that the marketplace is a 'privilege' for our users and community; if you abuse it, you get banned from it (or from OCN). The rules we have set forth have been designed in order to protect the users that want to use the marketplace as intended - a place to sell their used gear to other enthusiasts. We are a technical forum first and foremost, and the ultimate goal is to bolster the community by adding members that want to be part of the tech enthusiast crowd, not by getting people to join simply to buy and sell in our marketplace.
> 
> The rule has been updated and is clearly laid out. It was done so to protect our members. You agreed to follow the TOS and other rules of the site when you signed up. Ignorance of the rule does not excuse you from the rule. I'm sorry if that seems harsh or overdone, but I think your tune would change quite a bit if you've ever had an issue with a for sale ad here.


I think it's fair. I've seen other forums go to hell because of some members who get on, list a fs ad, only accept gift payment, steal the payment, account gets banned, open new account, repeat. It's annoying when you're honest and want to get rid of a specialty piece of gear, but it keeps the foxes out of the hen house.


----------



## EdenSB

It might be good to add some information on ways that the person receiving Paypal can protect themselves too.

Using gift to receive money _feels_ safer as a seller, as it's apparently more difficult to do a chargeback (not sure how much truth there is to it, but I've heard it). There have been scams where people received items, then did chargebacks to get their money back. The seller couldn't get any help in keeping the money as they didn't have sufficient proof of sending the item.


----------



## NKrader

you know what I do, i just say that i need the full amount in my paypal before I ship, i dont care about fees, if i said I wanted 80$ you need to cover paypal fees..

problem solved
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EdenSB*
> 
> It might be good to add some information on ways that the person receiving Paypal can protect themselves too.
> 
> Using gift to receive money _feels_ safer as a seller, as it's apparently more difficult to do a chargeback (not sure how much truth there is to it, but I've heard it). There have been scams where people received items, then did chargebacks to get their money back. The seller couldn't get any help in keeping the money as they didn't have sufficient proof of sending the item.


yep had it happen to me, when normal money is send paypal almost always sides with the payer


----------



## TUDJ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NKrader*
> 
> you know what I do, i just say that i need the full amount in my paypal before I ship, i dont care about fees, if i said I wanted 80$ you need to cover paypal fees..
> 
> problem solved
> yep had it happen to me, when normal money is send paypal almost always sides with the payer


All fees must be covered by the seller, asking the buyer to cover them is against the EULA so is also against our marketplace rules.


----------



## TeamBlue

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EdenSB*
> 
> It might be good to add some information on ways that the person receiving Paypal can protect themselves too.
> 
> Using gift to receive money _feels_ safer as a seller, as it's apparently more difficult to do a chargeback (not sure how much truth there is to it, but I've heard it). There have been scams where people received items, then did chargebacks to get their money back. The seller couldn't get any help in keeping the money as they didn't have sufficient proof of sending the item.


Honestly, that's outlined in the PayPal ToS, I don't think this is the place for it. When you sign up for an account, it is up to you to do the homework on what it is that you need to do to cover your bases. If there is no way to prove that the buyer got the item, the assumption is that they didn't receive it. There have also been lots and lots of scams where a _seller_ lists an item, accepts gift payment, doesn't send the item, and then the buyer is hosed.


----------



## Master__Shake

its pretty easy these days to prove you sent an item... a quick photo with the tracking number and the product you shipped is really all you need...

the real issue is paypal themselves...they won;t believe you and they have the final say.

even if you didn't pay as a gift paypal can find the buyer as correct and take your money anyway...


----------



## nvidiaftw12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TUDJ*
> 
> All fees must be covered by the seller, asking the buyer to cover them is against the EULA so is also against our marketplace rules.


So just charge more for the item.


----------



## Bitemarks and bloodstains

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *coachmark2*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Bitemarks and bloodstains*
> 
> Bump we are still seeing issues with members asking for gift payments, this is a violation of PayPal's rules as well as OCN's.
> 
> *As a result of the number of members asking for gift payments/personal payments we have adjusted our policies, any member found asking for a gift/personal payment will be permanently banned from the marketplace.*
> 
> This along with the FS/wanted section rules thread are the only warnings we will be giving.
> 
> If you are asked to gift a payment please report the message or post by using the  button.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That seems just a bit harsh don't you think? The marketplace is becoming harder and harder to use to the point where I don't plan on selling things here much anymore. Which is a shame because it would be great to send some well-cared-for gear to an honest user who's willing to pay.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Other restrictions on the marketplace that are making it very difficult to use
> 
> 
> 
> -Must have a picture with username and date by the item
> - Why? To verify that you actually have it? The 35 rep requirement should handle that
> -BNIB items are banned unless a moderator approves of it and even then you cannot sell at a profit
> - Why again? If I buy a CPU at Microcenter for $100 that retails on Newegg for $200, and I want to sell it BNIB for $150, why is that bad? I'm profiting, the user on the other end is getting a MUCH better deal on a CPU... I don't understand. Nowadays, if I have a BNIB item, I won't sell it here anymore.
> 
> 
> No gift payments
> -Okay....EULA. I get that. Everyone should just use no-fee Amazon payments or other services.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Insta-ban for asking for a gift payment
> - Disagree. Too harsh for a first offense. Warning should be served first, then the next time, you're toast.
Click to expand...

You may feel it is too harsh but for the members who have been persuaded to gift and then ripped off and the staff who deal with these disputes it is a very necessary step to stop members being ripped off in the future.
As for warning first, surely this thread, the rules thread and the stickies serve as a warning
Quote:


> Other restrictions on the marketplace that are making it very difficult to use]-Must have a picture with username and date by the item
> - Why? To verify that you actually have it? The 35 rep requirement should handle that


How does having to take a photo make the MP harder to use? Surely it is not that hard that take a photo and in my experience a photo will help with sales anyway. As Mistabernie said having 35 rep does not prove you have a item where as a phot does.
Quote:


> -BNIB items are banned unless a moderator approves of it and even then you cannot sell at a profit
> - Why again? If I buy a CPU at Microcenter for $100 that retails on Newegg for $200, and I want to sell it BNIB for $150, why is that bad? I'm profiting, the user on the other end is getting a MUCH better deal on a CPU... I don't understand. Nowadays, if I have a BNIB item, I won't sell it here anymore.


You cannot sell for profit as it is against the ToS.
Quote:


> ||Advertising/Promotion/Commercial Use ||
> 
> You ARE NOT allowed to use Overclock.net to:
> Advertise or promote products and/or services that you or someone you know has an "interest" in
> This includes linking to a personal website
> Display affiliate links of any kind
> Copy content, images or any other Overclock.net assets (in part or in whole)
> Recruit people for other websites/projects/jobs or any other reason
> Directly or indirectly profit from your relationship with the site and the people you meet here, now or in the future


http://www.overclock.net/a/terms-of-service

We could remove the rule from the FS/wanted rules and you still wouldn't be able to sell for profit.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EdenSB*
> 
> It might be good to add some information on ways that the person receiving Paypal can protect themselves too.
> 
> Using gift to receive money _feels_ safer as a seller, as it's apparently more difficult to do a chargeback (not sure how much truth there is to it, but I've heard it). There have been scams where people received items, then did chargebacks to get their money back. The seller couldn't get any help in keeping the money as they didn't have sufficient proof of sending the item.


I actually just found out about this the other day.
If a buyer issues a chargeback via their CC on a gift payment then the seller WILL lose the money as PayPal will not even look into whetehr an item was shipped as there should have been no item sold.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TUDJ*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *NKrader*
> 
> you know what I do, i just say that i need the full amount in my paypal before I ship, i dont care about fees, if i said I wanted 80$ you need to cover paypal fees..
> 
> problem solved
> yep had it happen to me, when normal money is send paypal almost always sides with the payer
> 
> 
> 
> All fees must be covered by the seller, asking the buyer to cover them is against the EULA so is also against our marketplace rules.
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nvidiaftw12*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TUDJ*
> 
> All fees must be covered by the seller, asking the buyer to cover them is against the EULA so is also against our marketplace rules.
> 
> 
> 
> So just charge more for the item.
Click to expand...

As long as there is no surcharge for using PayPal there is no problem with charging more, so for example you cannot sell an item for $104 through PayPal or $100 through Amazon, it must be the same price for all payment options.

If anyone is unhappy with having to pay fees with PayPal then you are free to use another service such as Amazon payments.


----------



## PCBuilder94

I still don't understand why someone can't sell for a profit here.


----------



## MistaBernie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCBuilder94*
> 
> I still don't understand why someone can't sell for a profit here.


It's the _spirit_ of the marketplace. We don't want to become an outlet for people to come and sell stuff to make a profit. The _idea_ is that other enthusiasts / members of the community will, when done using their tech-related items, sell them to other like-minded members of the community (which is why there are restrictions on NIB items, etc). There are plenty of other places where you can sell for profit, but most of the more popular ones (like eBay, etc) charge you an arm and a leg in fees to use their services. The use of the marketplace here is essentially free, but access to creating posts is reserved to active members of our community (hence the rep requirement for starting threads in our marketplace, which I won't discuss here as it's a completely other topic)

The marketplace here is not supposed to be one of the main draw of the forums, it's supposed to be a benefit to members of our community. Selling for profit simply does not align with the desired mission of the marketplace.


----------



## d6bmg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCBuilder94*
> 
> I still don't understand why someone can't sell for a profit here.


Want profit by selling items?? Go to ebay.


----------



## d6bmg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MistaBernie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *PCBuilder94*
> 
> I still don't understand why someone can't sell for a profit here.
> 
> 
> 
> It's the _spirit_ of the marketplace. We don't want to become an outlet for people to come and sell stuff to make a profit. The _idea_ is that other enthusiasts / members of the community will, when done using their tech-related items, well sell them to other like-minded members of the community (which is why there are restrictions on NIB items, etc). There are plenty of other places where you can sell for profit, but most of the more popular ones (like eBay, etc) charge you an arm and a leg in fees to use their services. The use of the marketplace here is essentially free, but access to creating posts is reserved to active members of our community (hence the rep requirement for starting threads in our marketplace, which I won't discuss here as it's a completely other topic)
> 
> The marketplace here is not supposed to be one of the main draw of the forums, it's supposed to be a benefit to members of our community. Selling for profit simply does not align with the desired mission of the marketplace.
Click to expand...

Nicely said!!


----------



## klepp0906

Yep - Eibes on Hardforum got me this way, looking for someone here to repair the motherboard I got from him w/ the mangled socket =P Couldn't figure out how paypal sided with him, but now I know =P


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MistaBernie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *PCBuilder94*
> 
> I still don't understand why someone can't sell for a profit here.
> 
> 
> 
> It's the _spirit_ of the marketplace. We don't want to become an outlet for people to come and sell stuff to make a profit. The _idea_ is that other enthusiasts / members of the community will, when done using their tech-related items, sell them to other like-minded members of the community (which is why there are restrictions on NIB items, etc). There are plenty of other places where you can sell for profit, but most of the more popular ones (like eBay, etc) charge you an arm and a leg in fees to use their services. The use of the marketplace here is essentially free, but access to creating posts is reserved to active members of our community (hence the rep requirement for starting threads in our marketplace, which I won't discuss here as it's a completely other topic)
> 
> The marketplace here is not supposed to be one of the main draw of the forums, it's supposed to be a benefit to members of our community. Selling for profit simply does not align with the desired mission of the marketplace.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what the spirit of a marketplace is


----------



## MistaBernie

Hate to have to bump this (and steer it back on topic).

Do NOT use Paypal Gift for the purchasing of goods or services for a transaction originating from Overclock.net (though in reality, you shouldn't be using it for goods/services anywhere). It's against Paypal's rules, and it's against our rules.


----------



## skynet2k8

I was wondering how do I sell an item on this site please can somebody help me


----------



## BulletSponge

Without the necessary rep to list items for sale your only hope is replying to WTB threads and see if the poster trusts you. I'll be honest, and I mean no disrespect or offence, but with your low activity on the site I would be reluctant to buy something from you here. It's not personal in any way it's just safe business.

Edit-do you live in a region where listing on Amazon or the like is not an option?


----------



## HowHardCanItBe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skynet2k8*
> 
> I was wondering how do I sell an item on this site please can somebody help me


You at present can't sell anything. See below.

http://www.overclock.net/t/290822/for-sale-wanted-rules-paraphrased


----------



## xzamples

how do i confirm a trade?


----------



## ENTERPRISE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xzamples*
> 
> how do i confirm a trade?


Are you referring to leaving feedback ?


----------

