# FAQ: Dual Power Supplies



## asuperpower

Well written, high quality content. Well done. I always look forward to content like this.


----------



## Grath

Thanks man! I can't believe I was thinking of doing this.


----------



## drufause

I'm not intending to contradict what you are saying but what about using one of the (Add2Psu) adapter such as I posted in this thread? http://www.overclock.net/t/1084863/add2psu-dual-psu-adapter-21-99-shipped Then using the additional power for system fans, pumps, possibly additional 8 or 6 pin graphics card connectors. Other than that yes i agree you should not be mixing power supply for main-board, CPU, memory and such.


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drufause*
> 
> I'm not intending to contradict what you are saying but what about using one of the (Add2Psu) adapter such as I posted in this thread? http://www.overclock.net/t/1084863/add2psu-dual-psu-adapter-21-99-shipped Then using the additional power for system fans, pumps, possibly additional 8 or 6 pin graphics card connectors. Other than that yes i agree you should not be mixing power supply for main-board, CPU, memory and such.


Not as dangerous, sure, but still a pain in the ass and usually not even necessary or worthwhile.


----------



## Levesque

Phaedrus.

What do you suggest then for people using Quad Nvidia 580 and the new 3930k/3960x that can draw 500w when OCed?

Is there any other choice then using dual-PSU?


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> Phaedrus.
> What do you suggest then for people using Quad Nvidia 580 and the new 3930k/3960x that can draw 500w when OCed?
> Is there any other choice then using dual-PSU?


Antec HCP-1200, Corsair AX1200, Thermaltake Toughpower 1350M, Silverstone ST-1500, Enermax Platimax 1200W


----------



## JedixJarf

Good write up. My servers still need their redundant psu's though


----------



## Phaedrus2129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JedixJarf*
> 
> Good write up. My servers still need their redundant psu's though


Oh yeah, redundant PSUs are totally different.


----------



## Levesque

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*
> 
> Antec HCP-1200, Corsair AX1200, Thermaltake Toughpower 1350M, Silverstone ST-1500, Enermax Platimax 1200W


So you think a single AX1200 could do: 4X 580 OC (or 4X Lightning 6970 heavealy OCed), 1X 3930k OC (taking around 500w), 32 Gentle Typhoons fans (6X 3000rpm in those 32), 4 pumps MCP655, 6x 2TB HDD, 3 SSD and 1X Blu-ray writer?

I'm asking this, because I'm trying to use 2 PSUs for this system, and the results are a dead AX1200, and a dead Antech HCP-1200, in the last week. I was trying to pair those with an AX850 with the Add2PSU thingy. But there is 2 dead PSUs, a dead Rampage IV and a dead 3930k in the last week...

I don't know if using 2 PSUs killed the AX1200 and the HCP-1200, but the AX850 is still alive and kicking!

What would you use for a system like that? I have a brand new AX1200, a brand new HCP-1200 and a 2 weeks old AX850 with me right now that I can use.


----------



## drufause

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> So you think a single AX1200 could do: 4X 580 OC (or 4X Lightning 6970 heavealy OCed), 1X 3930k OC (taking around 500w), 32 Gentle Typhoons fans (6X 3000rpm in those 32), 4 pumps MCP655, 6x 2TB HDD, 3 SSD and 1X Blu-ray writer?
> I'm asking this, because I'm trying to use 2 PSUs for this system, and the results are a dead AX1200, and a dead Antech HCP-1200, in the last week. I was trying to pair those with an AX850 with the Add2PSU thingy. But there is 2 dead PSUs, a dead Rampage IV and a dead 3930k in the last week...
> I don't know if using 2 PSUs killed the AX1200 and the HCP-1200, but the AX850 is still alive and kicking!
> What would you use for a system like that? I have a brand new AX1200, a brand new HCP-1200 and a 2 weeks old AX850 with me right now that I can use.


Question for you. Were you using the 1200 watts as the second power supply or primary? Also as far as board power goes were you mixing any power cables between the mother board and both power supplys. I.E. the RIVE has an 8pin and 4 pin as well as a 24 pin power cable. I would suggest all of these cables come from one power source and not be mixed between the power supplies.


----------



## Levesque

I didn't mix anything.

Each time (paired with the AX1200 or the HCP-1200), the AX850 was "secondary" was powering 2 graphic cards on the 4, 4 pumps MCP655, and the 32 fans.

The AX1200 or HCP-1200, paired with it, were "primary", and powering everything else: 2 graphic cards, Rampage IV (ATX, 8 pins, 4 pins, 6 pins EZ-Plug and 4 pins EZ-Plug) + 3930k, HDDs and SSDs.

That's why I don't understand why it didn't worked... And why does the AX850 always "survived" those dual PSUs experiences?









Phaedrus?


----------



## drufause

I'm afraid there may be a short somewhere. I would back out till you were using just the minimal components necessary to boot. IE main-board, GPU, memory, whatever is being used to cool the cpu. No excess Fans, No extra GPU, no second power supply, if your using 8 ram back out to 4. Test it if you still have a working ps. If it still works start to add fans and last add the GPUS. Also if you are using the add2psu make sure the contacts on the back are fully covered from metal contact. I know that seems obvious but.


----------



## Nexus6

My Enermax Max Revo 1250w just took a dump and I was afraid running my sig rig caused the early death. I have a i7 980x at 4.3ghz, 2x6990 running 1000/1400 @ 1.175v, 8 hdd, 1 ssd, 18 fans, 4 ccfl, 1 water pump, 1 mechanical kb, 1 gamepad, 1 mouse and 4 other usb devices. I once recorded the wattage from a Kill-A-Watt and it read 1080w







.

I'm sure my Enermax can handle a 1080w easily, but ever since I installed my 6990s and put my watercooling system, I have noticed an incredible amount of heat increase coming from the PSU. It was just 2 weeks ago that my PSU started seeing signs of it degrading when my +5v was avg less than 4.5v and my GPUs was showing signs of black out while using VLC. The PSU is in the process of an RMA, but I am now doubtful if my Enermax can sustain a continuous load of 1080w. I do have a Thermaltake Toughpower 700w which I am using right now, minus the second 6990 , a few hdds and a few less fans while waiting for my Enermax to return from RMA.

TL;TR: My question is, can I use the Toughpower in conjunction with my Enermax PSU?


----------



## Ken1649

Sub'd.

Would be interesting to learn from real world users experience with such setups other than all available datas floating around the internet.


----------



## Original Sin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nexus6*
> 
> My Enermax Max Revo 1250w just took a dump and I was afraid running my sig rig caused the early death. I have a i7 980x at 4.3ghz, 2x6990 running 1000/1400 @ 1.175v, 8 hdd, 1 ssd, 18 fans, 4 ccfl, 1 water pump, 1 mechanical kb, 1 gamepad, 1 mouse and 4 other usb devices. I once recorded the wattage from a Kill-A-Watt and it read 1080w
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> I'm sure my Enermax can handle a 1080w easily, but ever since I installed my 6990s and put my watercooling system, I have noticed an incredible amount of heat increase coming from the PSU. It was just 2 weeks ago that my PSU started seeing signs of it degrading when my +5v was avg less than 4.5v and my GPUs was showing signs of black out while using VLC. The PSU is in the process of an RMA, but I am now doubtful if my Enermax can sustain a continuous load of 1080w. I do have a Thermaltake Toughpower 700w which I am using right now, minus the second 6990 , a few hdds and a few less fans while waiting for my Enermax to return from RMA.
> TL;TR: My question is, can I use the Toughpower in conjunction with my Enermax PSU?


Your MaxRevo 1350W is certified to sustain 1350W continuously and it can output even more than that while sustaining a small drop in efficiency.. *here's* two 6990s and Gulftown running Furmark + Prime95 on a HCP 850W, with an actual draw of around 1100W.. those values are unreplicable in any other workloads.. this is the most they'll ever pull running two synthetic benchmarks simultaneously that are essentially power bugs.
You either mess something badly or you had a defective PSU.


----------



## Original Sin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> So you think a single AX1200 could do: 4X 580 OC (or 4X Lightning 6970 heavealy OCed), 1X 3930k OC (taking around 500w), 32 Gentle Typhoons fans (6X 3000rpm in those 32), 4 pumps MCP655, 6x 2TB HDD, 3 SSD and 1X Blu-ray writer?
> I'm asking this, because I'm trying to use 2 PSUs for this system, and the results are a dead AX1200, and a dead Antech HCP-1200, in the last week. I was trying to pair those with an AX850 with the Add2PSU thingy. But there is 2 dead PSUs, a dead Rampage IV and a dead 3930k in the last week...
> I don't know if using 2 PSUs killed the AX1200 and the HCP-1200, but the AX850 is still alive and kicking!
> What would you use for a system like that? I have a brand new AX1200, a brand new HCP-1200 and a 2 weeks old AX850 with me right now that I can use.


For a man with such hardware and two decades of experience in building enthusiast rigs(your own claim) you don't seem to understand much about hardware power draw and actual power requirements..

Claiming a 2000W+ power draw for 4x 6970s and a SandyB-E tends to raise a lot of question to anyone with a half a brain... there's no way liquide coolers could dissipate that kind of GPU TDP.. *here's* what you need for a 700W draw from a 6990 @ 1.275v and 1.05Ghz(that's 350W per GPU).. that's 2x TRUE and two Delta 6K RPM industrial fans that develop a higher static pressure than your whole fan rack combined.. those are extreme benching conditions which can't be replicated in normal use and can only be outdone on LN2, helium or maybe DICE..

The fact that your SandyB-E can pull 500W it doesn't mean it will actually do it in anything except hardcore synthetic benchmarks like Prime95 Small FFT and under bench level cooling..
Your graphic cards will never pull more than ~280W each in gaming/mining/etc @ 1Ghz.. read *this* and you'll see why you'll be perfectly find with a single HCP 1200 and why you won't even reach its limits under water/air cooling.


----------



## Vuashke

that chiphell link is nuts lol


----------



## Levesque

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unoriginal Sin*
> 
> For a man with such hardware and two decades of experience in building enthusiast rigs(your own claim) you don't seem to understand much about hardware power draw and actual power requirements..


Actually, you are right. But please, I need help. Spare me the condescending tone.







I'm a pharmacist, and a biochimist. Electricity is not my speciality, and it's the first time I try a dual PSU set-up. I'm learning something new, that's why I'm asking experts here to help me. And my results are not pretty good right now. So I want to learn.

You seems to know pretty well what you are talking about. But no need to treat me like a child.







I will gladly try what you say. I will try a single HCP-1200 alone to power everything. But like usual, there is not enough adapters to plug everything. Sigh. So I, again, have to wait for more parts.

I need 8X PCIe 8pins adapters for the GPUs, and 1X PCIe 6 pins for the Rampage. So I'm missing one on the HCP-1200, so I just ordered a 2 molex to PCIe adapter. That's why I was trying to use 2 PSU. That's why I was trying to make it work. Neither the HCP-1200 nor the AX1200 have all the connectors to power my set-up.

And the AX1200 is worst and missing more connectors then the HCP-1200. Missing 3 PCIe connectors to power everything.

I don't know why Asus choosed a PCIe 6 pins for additionnal power on the Rampage instead of a molex like on the Maximus. Sigh.


----------



## coachmark2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> So you think a single AX1200 could do: 4X 580 OC (or 4X Lightning 6970 heavealy OCed), 1X 3930k OC (taking around 500w), 32 Gentle Typhoons fans (6X 3000rpm in those 32), 4 pumps MCP655, 6x 2TB HDD, 3 SSD and 1X Blu-ray writer?
> I'm asking this, because I'm trying to use 2 PSUs for this system, and the results are *a dead AX1200*, and *a dead Antech HCP-1200*, in the last week. I was trying to pair those with an AX850 with the Add2PSU thingy. But there is 2 dead PSUs, *a dead Rampage IV and a dead 3930k* in the last week...
> I don't know if using 2 PSUs killed the AX1200 and the HCP-1200, but the AX850 is still alive and kicking!
> What would you use for a system like that? I have a brand new AX1200, a brand new HCP-1200 and a 2 weeks old AX850 with me right now that I can use.


!?!?! Dude! That's like....well over $1000 dollars down the tubes!


----------



## Ken1649

LOL

@ *Levesque*,

Shoot a PM to Phatboy.


----------



## Original Sin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> Actually, you are right. But please, I need help. Spare me the condescending tone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a pharmacist, and a biochimist. Electricity is not my speciality, and it's the first time I try a dual PSU set-up. I'm learning something new, that's why I'm asking experts here to help me. And my results are not pretty good right now. So I want to learn.
> You seems to know pretty well what you are talking about. But no need to treat me like a child.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will gladly try what you say. I will try a single HCP-1200 alone to power everything. But like usual, there is not enough adapters to plug everything. Sigh. So I, again, have to wait for more parts.
> I need 8X PCIe 8pins adapters for the GPUs, and 1X PCIe 6 pins for the Rampage. So I'm missing one on the HCP-1200, so I just ordered a 2 molex to PCIe adapter. That's why I was trying to use 2 PSU. That's why I was trying to make it work. Neither the HCP-1200 nor the AX1200 have all the connectors to power my set-up.
> And the AX1200 is worst and missing more connectors then the HCP-1200. Missing 3 PCIe connectors to power everything.
> I don't know why Asus choosed a PCIe 6 pins for additionnal power on the Rampage instead of a molex like on the Maximus. Sigh.


This actually explains everything... sadly..

Fist of all the the AX 1200 comes with 6x PCIe 8pin connectors and 2x EPS 8pin(4+4pin) connectors.. the HCP 1200 comes with 8x PCIe 8pin connectors and also 2x EPS 8pin(4+4pin) connectors.. that's enough for a dual CPU motherboard..

You say the AX 1200 comes with 5x PCIe connectors while the HCP 1200 comes with 7x PCIe connectors.. that means you used one PCIe connector from each PSU instead of the 8pin EPS(4+4pin) CPU connectors.. they are electrically different.. that's why you burned the motherboard VRM, that's why you burned the CPU and that's why you burned the power supplies....

You need to call someone that knows how to assemble a PC to do it for you..


----------



## Levesque

No. Not at all. I'm not that stupid. I would NEVER use PCIe connectors instead of 8 pins EPS CPU connectors. I know the difference pretty well. So forget that. That's not the problem. But thank you for the help.









And why are you that condescending? What did I do to you? Are you always like that with everyone? You talked the same to Nexus. Please, stop with this. I'm asking this politely.

I humbly come here for help. Not to be patronized.

I said that the AX1200 comes with 6 PCIe connectors but I need 9 for my system: 8X 8 pins for the Quad-GPU and 1X 6 pins for the Rampage.

The HCP-1200 has 8X 8 pins connectors, but I need 9. Never used EPS CPU instead of PCIe connectors.









''You need to call someone that knows how to assemble a PC to do it for you''. LOL. It's insulting a bit, but it's ok. I've you seen my build threads? 30 feets of tubing, 6 liters of water, 4X pumps MCP655 and 7 radiators, and everything in working fine. Not a single drop or leak in 5 years of watercooling. I know what I'm doing in a computer.

I'm just stuck with this dual PSU thing...

And both the HCP-1200 and AX1200 are working fine with Tri-Fire (3X6970) and my 3930k at 5.1. I've tested both yesterday for hours, and the system is working fine when using any of those 2 alone...


----------



## Original Sin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> No. Not at all. I'm not that stupid. I would NEVER use PCIe connectors instead of 8 pins EPS CPU connectors. I know the difference pretty well. So forget that. That's not the problem. But thank you for the help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And why are you that condescending? What did I do to you? Are you always like that with everyone? You talked the same to Nexus. Please, stop with this. I'm asking this politely.
> I humbly come here for help. Not to be patronized.


I'm not patronizing you and I'm not being condescendent.. I made an assumption with the info you gave which was off.. I only tried to help.. it seems that treating people like adults on this forum is a no no.. I apologize for not holding your hand through all this.. it must be tough for you.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> I said that the AX1200 comes with 6 PCIe connectors but I need 9 for my system: 8X 8 pins for the Quad-GPU and 1X 6 pins for the Rampage.
> The HCP-1200 has 8X 8 pins connectors, but I need 9. Never used EPS CPU instead of PCIe connectors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ''You need to call someone that knows how to assemble a PC to do it for you''. LOL. It's insulting a bit, but it's ok. I've you seen my build threads? 30 feets of tubing, 6 liters of water, 4X pumps MCP655 and 7 radiators, and everything in working fine. Not a single drop or leak in 5 years of watercooling. I know what I'm doing in a computer.
> I'm just stuck with this dual PSU thing...
> And both the HCP-1200 and AX1200 are working fine with Tri-Fire (3X6970) and my 3930k at 5.1. I've tested both yesterday for hours, and the system is working fine when using any of those 2 alone...


If you felt insulted then I apologize..

In regard to the lack of PCIe connectors.. the cards won't draw that much through the PCIe slots.. you can safely run them without the mobo PCIe 6pin connected.. for additional safety you could avoid Furmark untill you get a Molex -> PCIe adapter although you won't have any issues without it either, you're not running GF 100/110 Fermi cards


----------



## Levesque

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unoriginal Sin*
> 
> I'm not patronizing you and I'm not being condescendent.. I made an assumption with the info you gave which was off.. I only tried to help.. it seems that treating people like adults on this forum is a no no.. I apologize for not holding your hand through all this.. it must be tough for you.


Sigh. I'm 41 years old, have 50 employes, own 2 pharmacy and a shopping mall. Sorry for not being "adult" enough for you.









But it's ok, That's the beauty of the internet. Well respected businessman in real-life, won the ''business of the year'' award in my town for the last 2 years, and ''not adult enough" on the internet.







The beauty of the beast they say.









And english is not my first language also. That's why I need that ''holding of my hand'' sometimes, to be sure I understand everything, and don't get lost in translation. The "toughness" comes from the language barrier for me. We could try in french if you want. It would be easier for me. I could hold your hand to make you learn french if you want.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unoriginal Sin*
> 
> In regard to the lack of PCIe connectors.. the cards won't draw that much through the PCIe slots.. you can safely run them without the mobo PCIe 6pin connected.. for additional safety you could avoid Furmark untill you get a Molex -> PCIe adapter although you won't have any issues without it either, you're not running GF 100/110 Fermi cards


Ok. Cool. I also taught about that. And I will try it. But I'm running my 4 Lightnings 6970 with 1.3v at 1050/1475. But I will try it.

Asus are really annoying with those EZ-Plugs. Maximus = molex, then Rampage = PCIe 6 pins. They should stick with the same design on their flagship mobo. It would be easier to just switch mobo like I did.

And I never use Furmark. I usually use Metro 2033 bench to test stability of my GPUs.


----------



## Ken1649

I am not learning anything about 2 PSUs, but oh well.....


----------



## Levesque

Maybe the Add2PSU thingy is the problem?

I've asked Corsair about using AX1200 +AX850 and they said it would be fine. They don't ''officially'' say so, but they told me there would be no problems doing that.

Corsair even have a video on their site where they are using a dual PSU set-up, 2X AX1200, to power a Quad-SLI set-up...


----------



## Original Sin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> Sigh. I'm 41 years old, have 50 employes, own 2 pharmacy and a shopping mall. Sorry for not being "adult" enough for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it's ok, That's the beauty of the internet. Well respected businessman in real-life, won the ''business of the year'' award in my town for the last 2 years, and ''not adult enough" on the internet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The beauty of the beast they say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And english is not my first language also. That's why I need that ''holding of my hand'' sometimes, to be sure I understand everything, and don't get lost in translation. The "toughness" comes from the language barrier for me. We could try in french if you want. It would be easier for me. I could hold your hand to make you learn french if you want.


Congrats on your achievements..

English is not my first language either.. I used to speak French a decade or so ago.. I don't think I'll manage anything more than very basic dialogue now, and that with some effort








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> Ok. Cool. I also taught about that. And I will try it. But I'm running my 4 Lightnings 6970 with 1.3v at 1050/1475. But I will try it.
> Asus are really annoying with those EZ-Plugs. Maximus = molex, then Rampage = PCIe 6 pins. They should stick with the same design on their flagship mobo. It would be easier to just switch mobo like I did.
> And I never use Furmark. I usually use Metro 2033 bench to test stability of my GPUs.


Unigine is a realistic power draw benchmark as opposed to Furmark.. Metro will do as well









The worst thing that can happen is the 20+4pin ATX connector melting, because that's the one that feeds the PCIe slots.. and that's a pretty severe issue.. when you run Metro(or something similarly intensive) just watch the 24pin connector and if you see the 12v wires(the two yellow ones) discoloring you know you're pulling too much current through them and you'll need to shut down the system and get an adapter for the mobo 6pin PCIe connector before you try that again


----------



## Ken1649

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> Maybe the Add2PSU thingy is the problem?
> 
> I've asked Corsair about using AX1200 +AX850 and they said it would be fine. They don't ''officially'' say so, but they told me there would be no problems doing that.
> 
> Corsair even have a video on their site where they are using a dual PSU set-up, 2X AX1200, to power a Quad-SLI set-up...


You should be fine now


----------



## Levesque

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unoriginal Sin*
> 
> Congrats on your achievements..


Thank you.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Unoriginal Sin*
> 
> The worst thing that can happen is the 20+4pin ATX connector melting, because that's the one that feeds the PCIe slots.. and that's a pretty severe issue.. when you run Metro(or something similarly intensive) just watch the 24pin connector and if you see the 12v wires(the two yellow ones) discoloring you know you're pulling too much current through them and you'll need to shut down the system and get an adapter for the mobo 6pin PCIe connector before you try that again


LOL. Yes, I will try to see if I'm melting my ATX connector.







I'm not adult enough to try it.









I will wait a couple of days for the PCIe adaptor. Enough dead PSU for me in 1 week.

Thank you for the help.


----------



## Levesque

Sorry for my double post, but I've just read this on JohnnyGuru review of the Antec HCP-1200:

''You'll notice that ALL of the peripheral and SATA power connectors, fixed and modular, are on +12V4. There are a total of 22 connectors on one +12V rail. Sounds like potential trouble, right? Well, no... not really. Fans use less than 1A each and hard drive use less than 2A each, so even if you had 22 devices plugged into this one rail, it's not likely that you'll overload the rail.''

Since I'm using 32 Gentle Typhoon fans (and 6 of those are 3000rpm), 4 HDDs and 3 SSDs, I could potentially get into trouble using a single HCP-1200 with 4 GPUs taking all the PCIe connectors on the PSU?

Could it be what made my HCP-1200 failed?


----------



## Original Sin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> Sorry for my double post, but I've just read this on JohnnyGuru review of the Antec HCP-1200:
> ''You'll notice that ALL of the peripheral and SATA power connectors, fixed and modular, are on +12V4. There are a total of 22 connectors on one +12V rail. Sounds like potential trouble, right? Well, no... not really. Fans use less than 1A each and hard drive use less than 2A each, so even if you had 22 devices plugged into this one rail, it's not likely that you'll overload the rail.''
> Since I'm using 32 Gentle Typhoon fans (and 6 of those are 3000rpm), 4 HDDs and 3 SSDs, I could potentially get into trouble using a single HCP-1200 with 4 GPUs taking all the PCIe connectors on the PSU?
> Could it be what made my HCP-1200 failed?


Short answer: No









That rail can deliver ~480W before OCP kicks in and it elegantly shuts down your system to avoid any connector overload... so even if you would have went too far with it, the PSU wouldn't have failed.

As to the power draw of your fans..
The Gentile Typhoons(standard ones) are rated at 0.08A @ 1850RPM, that equals to about 1W per fan, the 3000RPM ones are rated at 0.22A so that means about 2.6W per fan.. or in other words: you can put another ~200 fans(half normal and the rest high RPM versions) on that rail without overloading it


----------



## Ken1649

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> Sorry for my double post, but I've just read this on JohnnyGuru review of the Antec HCP-1200:
> 
> ''You'll notice that ALL of the peripheral and SATA power connectors, fixed and modular, are on +12V4. There are a total of 22 connectors on one +12V rail. Sounds like potential trouble, right? Well, no... not really. Fans use less than 1A each and hard drive use less than 2A each, so even if you had 22 devices plugged into this one rail, it's not likely that you'll overload the rail.''
> 
> Since I'm using 32 Gentle Typhoon fans (and 6 of those are 3000rpm), 4 HDDs and 3 SSDs, I could potentially get into trouble using a single HCP-1200 with 4 GPUs taking all the PCIe connectors on the PSU?
> 
> Could it be what made my HCP-1200 failed?


 No. 32 x 5400 RPM Gentle Typhoon full rev at startup maybe









+ 10 Velociraptor 10,000 RPM


----------



## Levesque

And don`t forget the 4 MCP655 fans taking 8A. And all those fans at start-up take alot more juice then while running.









And the 6 pins PCIe going to the Rampage also.

So if you say I'm ok, no problem then.


----------



## Original Sin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> And don`t forget the 4 MCP655 fans taking 8A. And all those fans at start-up take alot more juice then while running.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the 6 pins PCIe going to the Rampage also.
> So if you say I'm ok, no problem then.


You're ok


----------



## GameBoy

Good post, Phaedrus. This was definitely needed.


----------



## Levesque

Yes, thank you for that post Phaedrus, and all the help I got in here, and over PMs.

I will try using a single PSU from now on with my system when getting all my adaptors, and see how it goes.

My dual PSU plans are down the drain for now. That thread made me rethink everything I wanted to do, and everything I taught I knew after reading alot on the subject of dual PSU. Some people are getting good results with dual PSU, but I'm not one of those. Call it bad luck, or humble stupidity on my side, but the results of my dual PSU experience were not worth the all the troubles I got with 2 dead PSUs, mobo and CPU.









Both my HCP-1200 and AX1200 are working fine alone with 3X6970 and my 3930k at 5.1 for now. Will see how it goes with 4X 6970 Lightning at heavealy OCed with1.3v with a single PSU.

Thank you guys.


----------



## Jmatt110

Levesque, use one of these adapters. I'm using one with an AX1200 & AX850 together, never had any issues with power at all.
www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=34_186&products_id=21193

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


----------



## Levesque

Yeah, I ordered one of those Lian-Li adapters already after talking with my buddy Ken1649.

The more I think about it, the more I think the culprit of all my problems is that stupid Add2PSU. I will maybe try the Lian-Li adapter later this week.

But I'm now totally scared to do any dual-PSU experiences again... Too much dead parts for my taste in the last 2 weeks.









I do everything people are telling me to do, I read everything about the subject, I double check every connections, I don't mix power on the mobo, etc, and everyone else have dual PSU set-ups working fine... except me.


----------



## Jmatt110

You only need to connect the green cable to any black one of the main 24 pin cable to start up the psu, I don't know why that adapter is using a molex connector to start it up.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


----------



## Ken1649

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jmatt110*
> 
> You only need to connect the green cable to any black one of the main 24 pin cable to start up the psu, I don't know why that adapter is using a molex connector to start it up.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


That Molex is to power the relay coils which basically switch the PS_On (Green) and Black (Com) of the Slave PSU when the Master PSU is on. Something might go wrong with the relay and trip the PSU via the Molex.


----------



## sockpirate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*
> 
> Antec HCP-1200, Corsair AX1200, Thermaltake Toughpower 1350M, Silverstone ST-1500, Enermax Platimax 1200W


Dang people are really confusing me as to what i need to do with my future Lightning Extremes in quad SLI. Some are saying 2x AX 1200, single AX 1200 or a Maxrevo1500...I will also have a 3960x OCed to 5.0ghz or higher, same with the cards somewhere at 950+ for gaming.


----------



## Ken1649

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sockpirate*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dang people are really confusing me as to what i need to do with my future Lightning Extremes in quad SLI. Some are saying 2x AX 1200, single AX 1200 or a Maxrevo1500...I will also have a 3960x OCed to 5.0ghz or higher, same with the cards somewhere at 950+ for gaming.
Click to expand...

LOL

Look at it this way, some people will link you of what they *"read"* and convince you what they believe from what they read.

I have seen they link a unit rated continuous 1,200w is capable of 1,700w in the review. But it's not scpecified the continuous draw of 1,700w lasted how long for the test period. So they are saying your Quad setup max power draw is 1,300w hence that unit is what you need.

Most monufactures state the MTBF is 100,000 hours = 11.41 years. Best manufactures warranty have seen so far is 7 years. *Why?*


----------



## sockpirate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ken1649*
> 
> LOL
> 
> Look at it this way, some people will link you of what they *"read"* and convince you what they believe from what they read.
> 
> I have seen they link a unit rated continuous 1,200w is capable of 1,700w in the review. But it's not scpecified the continuous draw of 1,700w lasted how long for the test period. So they are saying your Quad setup max power draw is 1,300w hence that unit is what you need.
> 
> Most monufactures state the MTBF is 100,000 hours = 11.41 years. Best manufactures warranty have seen so far is 7 years. *Why?*


So help me out here? My single AX 1200 is enough then is what you are saying ? Sorry i am a bit dense, and it is also 330AM


----------



## Ken1649

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sockpirate*
> 
> Quote:
> So help me out here? My single AX 1200 is enough then is what you are saying ? Sorry i am a bit dense, and it is also 330AM


Get additional unit and run them in tandem for that setup. You will have a safe supply of power with what you might want to do with the whole system.

One unit doesn't have the enough PCIe 6+2-Pin for Quad setup but this is not the reason to go dual PSU.


----------



## Nnimrod

Well yeah, for the normal guy. But for the quad SLI TX-10 builds... yes







two Platinum 1000W


----------



## jellis142

Enermax RaxRevo 1350. You said you wanted 5.0Ghz+ and 950Mhz for gaming? I guarantee you won't be using 100% of each GTX 580 during gaming (Impossible due to scaling; not to mention most games won't even push the 4th GPU, as they don't support spanning across that many cards). Even if you decide to do extreme benchmarking, they won't last longer then a few minutes, and even then you probably won't be able to reach "Imma save your components by shutting down" stage.

Just my 2c. Don't get two in tandem unless you absolutely have to. In this case, you aren't at that point yet. It's not like your trying to run an SR-2...


----------



## OwnedINC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> Sigh. I'm 41 years old, have 50 employes, own 2 pharmacy and a shopping mall. Sorry for not being "adult" enough for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But it's ok, That's the beauty of the internet. Well respected businessman in real-life, won the ''business of the year'' award in my town for the last 2 years, and ''not adult enough" on the internet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The beauty of the beast they say.


None of that has to do with acting like an adult, achievements =/= being an adult.

And yes, you ARE acting like a child.


----------



## Levesque

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OwnedINC*
> 
> None of that has to do with acting like an adult, achievements =/= being an adult.
> And yes, you ARE acting like a child.


Like I care what you think...









A little come back to me dual-PSU adventure.

Everything is now working fine with my Antec HCP-1200 powering 4X 6970 Lightning + 3930k + Rampage IV + all HDDs and SSDs, and my AX850 is powering all the fans and watercooling pumps 4X MCP655. Dual-PSUs working perfectly nowwith the Lian-LI dual-PSU adaptor. So I really think it was the Add2PSU adapter the culprit..

The HCP-1200 is noisy, but it's rock-stable with 4X 6970 at 1050/1475 1.3v.


----------



## Levesque

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OwnedINC*
> 
> None of that has to do with acting like an adult, achievements =/= being an adult.
> And yes, you ARE acting like a child.


Like I care what you think... And 2 weeks later, you had to put your little grain of salt with a comment about me, adding nothing to the discussion about dual-PSU... Wow. It was so worth it. I'm happy you took the time to wrote that.









A little come back to me dual-PSU adventure.

Everything is now working fine with my Antec HCP-1200 powering 4X 6970 Lightning + 3930k + Rampage IV + all HDDs and SSDs, and my AX850 is powering all the fans and watercooling pumps 4X MCP655. Dual-PSUs working perfectly nowwith the Lian-LI dual-PSU adaptor. So I really think it was the Add2PSU adapter the culprit..

The HCP-1200 is noisy, but it's rock-stable with 4X 6970 at 1050/1475 1.3v.


----------



## sockpirate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellis142*
> 
> Enermax RaxRevo 1350. You said you wanted 5.0Ghz+ and 950Mhz for gaming? I guarantee you won't be using 100% of each GTX 580 during gaming (Impossible due to scaling; not to mention most games won't even push the 4th GPU, as they don't support spanning across that many cards). Even if you decide to do extreme benchmarking, they won't last longer then a few minutes, and even then you probably won't be able to reach "Imma save your components by shutting down" stage.
> Just my 2c. Don't get two in tandem unless you absolutely have to. In this case, you aren't at that point yet. It's not like your trying to run an SR-2...


4x L-EX will not even be used with 3x 120hz monitors?


----------



## jellis142

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sockpirate*
> 
> 4x L-EX will not even be used with 3x 120hz monitors?


Ok, with Surround there will be more load, but all of them still won't get to 100% load, scaling isn't that perfect yet


----------



## trumpet-205

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*
> 
> Antec HCP-1200, Corsair AX1200, Thermaltake Toughpower 1350M, Silverstone ST-1500, Enermax Platimax 1200W


Didn't you say that AX1200 is a single rail design?


----------



## sockpirate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jellis142*
> 
> Ok, with Surround there will be more load, but all of them still won't get to 100% load, scaling isn't that perfect yet


He he yeah i figured. I dunno i just really wanna figure out what to do...i came here because my thread i started turned into nonsense and i was directed here by a friend. I am still at a loss of what to do...







cannot get a straight answer as what i will be fine with doing , without endangering my parts in the process when everything is overclocked on 3x 120 hz monitors.


----------



## Ken1649

> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like I care what you think... And 2 weeks later, you had to put your little grain of salt with a comment about me, adding nothing to the discussion about dual-PSU... Wow. It was so worth it. I'm happy you took the time to wrote that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A little come back to me dual-PSU adventure.
> 
> Everything is now working fine with my Antec HCP-1200 powering 4X 6970 Lightning + 3930k + Rampage IV + all HDDs and SSDs, and my AX850 is powering all the fans and watercooling pumps 4X MCP655. Dual-PSUs working perfectly nowwith the Lian-LI dual-PSU adaptor. So I really think it was the Add2PSU adapter the culprit..
> 
> The HCP-1200 is noisy, but it's rock-stable with 4X 6970 at 1050/1475 1.3v.
Click to expand...

Try run 3DMark 11 with a single PSU then compare the scores with distibuted loads among 2 PSUs









Difficult to explain if not to test it yourself. Reviews don't always covered everything other to say how good that specifics unit in review


----------



## Ken1649

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sockpirate*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ken1649*
> 
> LOL
> 
> Look at it this way, some people will link you of what they *"read"* and convince you what they believe from what they read.
> 
> I have seen they link a unit rated continuous 1,200w is capable of 1,700w in the review. But it's not scpecified the continuous draw of 1,700w lasted how long for the test period. So they are saying your Quad setup max power draw is 1,300w hence that unit is what you need.
> 
> Most monufactures state the MTBF is 100,000 hours = 11.41 years. Best manufactures warranty have seen so far is 7 years. *Why?*
> 
> 
> 
> So help me out here? My single AX 1200 is enough then is what you are saying ? Sorry i am a bit dense, and it is also 330AM
Click to expand...

Here, have a look of *real world user experience*. The fact is fact regardless of personal opinions and whatever reviews people read and suggested to you.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1186014/how-to-distribute-load-on-enermax-maxrevo-1500w#post_15974914


----------



## simurg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Levesque*
> 
> Like I care what you think... And 2 weeks later, you had to put your little grain of salt with a comment about me, adding nothing to the discussion about dual-PSU... Wow. It was so worth it. I'm happy you took the time to wrote that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A little come back to me dual-PSU adventure.
> Everything is now working fine with my Antec HCP-1200 powering 4X 6970 Lightning + 3930k + Rampage IV + all HDDs and SSDs, and my AX850 is powering all the fans and watercooling pumps 4X MCP655. Dual-PSUs working perfectly nowwith the Lian-LI dual-PSU adaptor. So I really think it was the Add2PSU adapter the culprit..
> The HCP-1200 is noisy, but it's rock-stable with 4X 6970 at 1050/1475 1.3v.


I also have one of those similar adapters. My problem is that the second Power Supply does not stop after first one is stopped. Do you have the same experience?


----------



## Gadgety

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phaedrus2129*
> 
> The short answer: Don't.
> The vast majority of people who use two power supplies don't need to, and waste money or endanger their rigs doing so. It's only a valid approach in a very small handful of scenarios, and is otherwise either an unnecessary over-complication, or a dangerous jury rig solution.
> The main thing people do wrong with dual power supplies is to think they even need it. They look at a GTX580, then look at power consumption charts and think "OMG 500W OMG OMG NEED MOAR POWER" when in fact that's the total system power consumption; the card itself only pulls ~300W. So then they decide to supplement their already more-than-sufficient 650-850W PSU with another PSU, wasting money and making life more difficult, what with having to stash another PSU somewhere inside their case and hiding a bunch more cables.
> The next worse thing people do is do dual PSUs with cheap units. Most power supplies under $100, and all under $50, use a technology called "group regulation" to reduce costs. There's a bunch of technical stuff I could throw at you; but the gist of it is that the current on the +12V and +5V rails on a group regulated power supply must stay within a certain approximate ratio to one another (say 3A of +12V for every 1A of +5V, +/-20%) or else the voltage regulation will go out of whack. +12V load too low? +5V voltage drops and +12V voltage soars. +5V load too low? +5V soars and +12V drops.
> The secondary PSU in a dual-PSU usually has no +5V load at all, or at most 1-2A, meaning that the +12V voltage will droop significantly; on high-end group regulated units it will fall to 11.6-11.7V, which is in-spec but poor. On low-end group regulated units +12V might drop to 11.3-11.5V, out of spec or almost. Out of spec voltage (>11.4V) can cause component malfunction; bluescreens and random shut downs, and will prevent many hard drives from functioning at all.. Very low, but in-spec voltage (11.4-11.6V) can cause poor overclocking results, occasional instability, excessive wear on component power circuitry, and can cause hard drive issues over time.
> Dual PSUs should only be used when both power supplies are high quality and use independent regulation, or even better "DC-DC" regulation. It's only a useful approach when dealing with systems that pull >1000W; then two quality 650W+ indy/DC-DC regulated units may be used in place of a single 1000W+ unit. Even then you may run into issues of crosstalk leading to greater effective ripple on power regulated devices (motherboard, graphics card, RAID controllers), and units that rely on +12V v-sense may suffer poor voltage regulation if the cable with their v-sense wires is not in use.
> So just don't.


I would prefer one power supply but may have to go with two. Two Xeon5650 oc to 4.0GHz, 3xGTX580s + 1 Quadro, water cooled. This is a work station, and I won't be using headsets, or listen to gaming sound effects, so noise control is important. I get 1675W with 30% aging on the extreme psu calculator. I'm locating the radiator and fans in the basement below my home office and looking for the least noisy PSU solution that can handle the wattage. The case I'm using has max 30+6 cm extended space for the power supply (-ies). I looked into 2x Corsair AX860i's which will be 32 cm without the cabling.

Any suggestions?


----------



## freeleacher

If you don't have enough amps on your 12v rail its the best thing to do,
In fact it will be better because your not stressing the power supply.
Allso its much cheaper to do it this way and get better thermal results.


----------



## warpuck

I read this entire Thread.
It is kinda old, but for those who read it in the future.
One of the the things I have done is High power RF systems (megawatts). In those systems you will not find dual power supplies feeding the same component. Some power supply may be grounded to the case. So what happens if you do? supply a and supply b say puts out 12.012 V and b 12.125 volts. where does . 0.112 volts go ? answer into supply a. consider that supply as a low ohm (resistance) say .001 ohm. 0.112 v divided by .01 ohm = 110 amps. When that happens power supply a and b become a temporary smoke generators and the best designed one survives. So any thing plugged in to the mother boards (video cards) must be powered from the same source. These devices draw power through the Motherboard.
Hard drives, CD drives, fans, & pumps can be powered by a separate supply because they are only signal connected and not electrically connected. The only that things may require enough current draw to warrant a separate power supply are TEC, some pumps and a few high volume fans or enough fans to make the box fly.
I have found that the silver or gold power single rail supplies last longer. If 1300 watts can't power it you probably should not build it. For those of us who have to live off 110 volts, 1300 watts is getting close to popping the circuit breaker on a 14 gauge circuit.


----------



## klepp0906

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *warpuck*
> 
> I read this entire Thread.
> It is kinda old, but for those who read it in the future.
> One of the the things I have done is High power RF systems (megawatts). In those systems you will not find dual power supplies feeding the same component. Some power supply may be grounded to the case. So what happens if you do? supply a and supply b say puts out 12.012 V and b 12.125 volts. where does . 0.112 volts go ? answer into supply a. consider that supply as a low ohm (resistance) say .001 ohm. 0.112 v divided by .01 ohm = 110 amps. When that happens power supply a and b become a temporary smoke generators and the best designed one survives. So any thing plugged in to the mother boards (video cards) must be powered from the same source. These devices draw power through the Motherboard.
> Hard drives, CD drives, fans, & pumps can be powered by a separate supply because they are only signal connected and not electrically connected. The only that things may require enough current draw to warrant a separate power supply are TEC, some pumps and a few high volume fans or enough fans to make the box fly.
> I have found that the silver or gold power single rail supplies last longer. If 1300 watts can't power it you probably should not build it. For those of us who have to live off 110 volts, 1300 watts is getting close to popping the circuit breaker on a 14 gauge circuit.


QFT. I use dual evga classified psus on my rig because 1 would trip every time I run any type of benchmark (shut down around 1650 watts) and I added the second which solved that problem but began tripping my circuit breaker instead. At that point i had to use each psu on a seperate circuit. Not ideal but atleast it runs without trouble until I can get a few 220 lines into my office lol. Eager to see the look on the electricians face









I use one solely for the 4 Titans which with a custom bios use a dramatic amount of power themselves.

I agree in most scenarios 2 psus will never be necessary but in some of today's high end custom builds it certainly isn't overkill. I measured 2200w at the wall without having waterblocks on my titans at that point. Gives my 24k btu AC a run for its money lol.

Just had a baby and doing tons of Reno around the house and so I havnt had the pc hooked up for the last month and it cut our electric bill very close to 50% ugh! The price we pay to jam video games!


----------



## jrlaudio

Hi all,

What I think causes many problems here is in _computer land_ people talk about "watts" and even benchmark in "watts". However, when talking about PSU's in general, the considerations should be _voltage_ and _current_. The reason is you could have in one situation low voltage and higher current, and in another high voltage and lower current; however in both the power (watts) measurement could be identical. So using watts as the sole criteria is not really indicative of the need or problem.

A "Watt" is power; a rate of energy calculation of voltage and current. Specifically a watt (W) is when one ampere (A) of current flows through an electrical potential difference of one volt (V).

1 W = 1V ⋅ A

So this means, if you have a 1 volt rail and a current draw of 1 amp the rate of energy or power is 1 watt. Also if you have 100 volts and a current draw of .01 amps you still have 1 watt. Also if you have .5 volts and 2 amps of current draw it is still only 1 watt. So to be using 1 watt of power on a 12 volt rail, you need to draw approximately .08 amps.

So you can see that power measurements can be useless in any application using a PSU. Even using power to determine what PSU to use in a given application is not wise. It only indicates the rate of total energy; it does not tell you anything more than that rate. What is relevant is knowing the amount of current drawn or required on each voltage rail.

When choosing a PSU for _any_ electrical use, the primary factor is the amount of current that will be drawn from any voltage rail. Once you exceed (or reach a practical limit) of current draw on a given voltage rail, this is when you see voltage drop across that rail. _(What I see some computer enthusiasts incorrectly refer to as "V-droop"_). So what is important to understand is you must calculate the max current need for each voltage rail and choose a PSU that will deliver more than that amount current, since headroom on current (sometimes refereed to as _"duty cycle"_) prevents issues like voltage drop and excessive heating.

Talking about power alone is pointless.

As far as the issue of running multiple power supplies (other than for redundancy applications), the issues and problems are due to the nature of how a PSU functions; how it converts wall AC voltage to usable DC voltages and current for a computer to use. Without getting too technical in how this is accomplished, most PSU designs require that the two PSU's be "linked" in some fashion. In most cases in this link, the grounds are bridged common and sections of the circuitry involved in regulation (like timing) are synced.

One of the few manufacturers making computer PSU's that offers this form of linking is Antec in the "High Current Pro" series. This is what Antec calls "OC Link". By connecting two PSU's of this series together, you can increase the total current available, and use all the connections on both PSU's in the same computer without any worry of problems. I am sure their are other manufacturers who offer this type of linking, however this series by Antec is the one I know of at this writing.

When using two PSU's in the same build it is important to understand that it is not sufficient (or safe) to simply connect two PSU's together or even to use some third-party "external device" alleging it can safely connect PSU's together externally. The linking of two PSU's must be internal, built-in as a feature and is proprietary to each design type of PSU.


----------

