# Do you need HDMI for HD?



## muels7

Ok, so I am getting my first HDTV in about a week and I have some questions. Supposedly my cable plan includes a few HD channels, and I can get sound from them currently, just not video because I dont have an HDTV so I assume that means I have them. Anyways, do I need an HDMI cable from the digital cable box to the TV to receive the HD channels, or will it work with just a coaxial cable?

The only outputs on the box are coaxial and composite. There are no HDMI or component outputs. Thanks guys.

this is the TV I will be watching TV on.


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## vwgti

Youll need either HDMI or component cables.


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## subliminally incorrect

you can get hd from the component or hdmi. coaxial can carry hd but you need the decoder box to get the digital signal from it to process the video into hd.


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## ablearcher

Coax only gives about 480p, if you do not have a built in HD tuner on that TV.


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## muels7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vwgti* 
Youll need either HDMI or component cables.

So basically Comcast screwed me by giving me a box without either of those? They just gave it to me last year.


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## Coma

TL;DR: Ask the cable company for a STB which can output to HDMI or Component.

Composite can carry the same resolutions Component can carry, but since all three channels (YUV) are on a single cable, high frequencies in one channel can 'leak' into another, which manifests visually as dot crawl:










That one's a close up of really small text, but it can get much worse on bigger stuff (only showed that one since it's a GIF):









If your TV has a 3D comb filter, it can mitigate this artifact significantly in still areas, but it still causes discoloring. If you think about why it's called a 3D filter, then it becomes clear why it only works on still areas: the three dimensions are horizontally, vertically and temporally (time - adjacent frames or fields). It can only mitigate it when what's behind the dot crawl isn't moving.

Also, the comb filter can sometimes mistake moving areas which have similar features for dot crawl and cause discoloring (towards gray).

It also indirectly causes loss of resolution because high frequency (high resolution) luminance information is interpreted as chrominance information, and vice versa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot_crawl


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## muels7

ok, well this is my new TV, so will I be able to get HD channels through a coaxial cable with this TV? Btw, I do have a digital cable box from comcast so I can get OnDemand and the channel guide, but it does not have any HDMI outputs like I stated earlier.


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## ShortySmalls

componet, hdmi, or dvi do hd


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## vwgti

By reading these specs, Video Signal : 1080/60p (HDMI™ / COMPONENT), 1080/60i, 1080/24p (HDMI™ ONLY), 720/60p, 480/60p, 480/60i , it seems possible for you to get 720p.


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## muels7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *vwgti* 
By reading these specs, Video Signal : 1080/60p (HDMIâ„¢ / COMPONENT), 1080/60i, 1080/24p (HDMIâ„¢ ONLY), 720/60p, 480/60p, 480/60i , it seems possible for you to get 720p.

So that means I can get 720p with just a coaxial cable and no special cables? Most channels don't even display 1080p right? I don't have a blu-ray right now, so I dont need 1080p right now i guess since that is the only thing that outputs to 1080p


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## LiNERROR

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muels7* 
ok, well this is my new TV, so will I be able to get HD channels through a coaxial cable with this TV? Btw, I do have a digital cable box from comcast so I can get OnDemand and the channel guide, but it does not have any HDMI outputs like I stated earlier.

*7 HD Inputs3*

Get versatile HD connection options with seven HD inputs, including four HDMIâ„¢ inputs to connect a Blu-ray Discâ„¢ player, PlayStationÂ®3 gaming console or any other HDMI-capable equipment. Two HD component inputs provide added HD-capable connectivity in addition a PC input (HD-15 pin) lets you use your HDTV as a computer monitor.

Video Signal : 1080/60p (HDMIâ„¢ / COMPONENT), 1080/60i, 1080/24p (HDMIâ„¢ ONLY), 720/60p, 480/60p, 480/60i

You need a HD set to box/digital receiver to pick up 1080i/1080p (what you want) -- use HDMI to connect this


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## muels7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *LiNERROR* 

You need a HD set to box/digital receiver to pick up 1080i/1080p (what you want) -- use HDMI to connect this

Yes, but my digital box does not have HDMI output. Could I do a composite/coaxial to HDMI converter, or would that not give me the right quality?


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## Crazy9000

Coaxial can carry a HD signal *easily*.

I currently get several channels from Comcast over the coaxial connection.

I think a lot of people in here are mistaking Coax for composite.


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## muels7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Coaxial can carry a HD signal *easily*.

I currently get several channels from Comcast over the coaxial connection.

I think a lot of people in here are mistaking Coax for composite.

Yeah, Coaxial is this cable right?


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## Crazy9000

Yes sir that is coaxial. It actually has a very high amount of bandwidth, a lot of people just assume it doesn't because it's old technology.


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## muels7

Alright, thanks crazy. If only I could rep you.... reps to everyone else that helped to though.


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## Crazy9000

If you stop and think about it for a second, it wouldn't make any sense that the coaxial cable couldn't carry HD channels. Coaxial cable is what they hook up outside your house either way, no matter what cable package you have...


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## Mikecdm

Well, from the looks of it. You have a standard STB. You would need to get an HD box with the HD package to get HD channels. The local channels should be offered in HD already, or for the most part. The problem is that with your box, you won't get them.

You can either get a different box and upgrade you're cable package or change some things up. If you plugged the coaxial cable directly to the tv, you should be able to use the tv's digital tuner and get the available HD/digital channels. You can also do over the air digital/HD channels with an antennae. But then you would have to use a splitter and change from inputs when you want to watch stuff on cable and when you want to watch hd stuff.

I got to thinking and though, why wouldn't coax from the box to the tv work. Well, you'd be using the boxes tuner and not the tvs. So if you output via coax, you have to set the tv to channel 3 or however that works. I'd assume it's similar to old school consoles. It might work like that, but I doubt it.

I say experiment with some of the options provided and see what works. First step and easiest would be to connect the box to the tv via coax. Then come back and tell us how it went.


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## vwgti

Quote:


Originally Posted by *muels7* 
So that means I can get 720p with just a coaxial cable and no special cables? Most channels don't even display 1080p right? I don't have a blu-ray right now, so I dont need 1080p right now i guess since that is the only thing that outputs to 1080p

Yes by the specs I wrote there, it appears you can get 720 over coax. Any higher requires component or hdmi.


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## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mikecdm* 
Well, from the looks of it. You have a standard STB. You would need to get an HD box with the HD package to get HD channels. The local channels should be offered in HD already, or for the most part. The problem is that with your box, you won't get them.

You can either get a different box and upgrade you're cable package or change some things up. If you plugged the coaxial cable directly to the tv, you should be able to use the tv's digital tuner and get the available HD/digital channels. You can also do over the air digital/HD channels with an antennae. But then you would have to use a splitter and change from inputs when you want to watch stuff on cable and when you want to watch hd stuff.

I got to thinking and though, why wouldn't coax from the box to the tv work. Well, you'd be using the boxes tuner and not the tvs. So if you output via coax, you have to set the tv to channel 3 or however that works. I'd assume it's similar to old school consoles. It might work like that, but I doubt it.

I say experiment with some of the options provided and see what works. First step and easiest would be to connect the box to the tv via coax. Then come back and tell us how it went.

I've got a basic cable package, and we do get the local HD channels just by plugging the coaxial into the back of the TV. I believe you need a digital tuner, but any HDTV these days should have one.

I am of course assuming that when he wants to get the better HD channels, they will force him to get the box they need along with them. I think the box is more to decode the encoded signal so people who aren't paying for the package can't see the channels, then it is for HD actually needing a separate box.

Anyways whatever HD channels that come with his cable now should just work by hooking up his TV and flipping to them. For example, on my TV channel 5 is SD and channel 5.1 is in HD.


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## muels7

I believe I have what they call the Digital starter package. I do not have the HD package, however there are HD channels offered in my package that I do currently receive. If if go to the channel, I will hear sound, but no picture which I assume is because my current TV does not have an HD tuner. Also, for those of you that were wondering, I do have a STB, but it must just be a digital box and not an HD box, but that shouldn't matter as long as my tv has and HD tuner which it should.


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## Mikecdm

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I've got a basic cable package, and we do get the local HD channels just by plugging the coaxial into the back of the TV. I believe you need a digital tuner, but any HDTV these days should have one.

I am of course assuming that when he wants to get the better HD channels, they will force him to get the box they need along with them. I think the box is more to decode the encoded signal so people who aren't paying for the package can't see the channels, then it is for HD actually needing a separate box.

Anyways whatever HD channels that come with his cable now should just work by hooking up his TV and flipping to them. For example, on my TV channel 5 is SD and channel 5.1 is in HD.

I understand that and I do it myself. I have the cable coming from the wall and I get the basic cable channels along with the HD channels.

The problem that the OP has is that he is using a box already. That box is used for additional services such as on demand and possibly some premium channels as HBO. Plugging the coaxial directly to the tv and bypassing the box would render these services useless.

Now he can try and connect the box to the tv via coax, but I don't really think that would work the same as connecting the coax from the wall directly to the tv.


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## thenutty1

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mikecdm* 
The problem that the OP has is that he is using a box already. That box is used for additional services such as on demand and possibly some premium channels as HBO. Plugging the coaxial directly to the tv and bypassing the box would render these services useless.

Now he can try and connect the box to the tv via coax, but I don't really think that would work the same as connecting the coax from the wall directly to the tv.

This.
I had Comcast when I first got my HDTV and I had a similar issue. I had an HD STB though, but my setup was [Wall]~coax~[STB]~coax~[HDTV]. This will NOT give you HD, even with an HD STB, as it is set to only output 480P over the coax output. Once I switched to HDMI it was clear as day.

Depending on your definition of 'HD' (mine is 720P+), only HDMI and component cables are the only standard HDTV connections that can carry it. Use those. And don't buy 'high quality' HDMI cables, as there really is no such thing.


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## muels7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *thenutty1* 
This.
I had Comcast when I first got my HDTV and I had a similar issue. I had an HD STB though, but my setup was [Wall]~coax~[STB]~coax~[HDTV]. This will NOT give you HD, even with an HD STB, as it is set to only output 480P over the coax output. Once I switched to HDMI it was clear as day.

Depending on your definition of 'HD' (mine is 720P+), only HDMI and component cables are the only standard HDTV connections that can carry it. Use those. And don't buy 'high quality' HDMI cables, as there really is no such thing.

Hmm, well that is awesome.... Comcast is providing me with HD channels, yet they did not provide me with a HD STB, just a standard digital one. The average user would not even realize this either. They are just trying to cheat people of of their money.

Do you have to pay an extra monthly fee for your HD STB? I do not believe I have to pay a monthly fee for my specific box.


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## Mikecdm

Typically you have to pay more for an HD STB. The local HD channels should come at no additional cost. What is usually included in a HD package is ESPN HD, TNT HD, Discover HD, and a few more. THen if you have HBO or any other premium channel, you should get the HD version as well.


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## Crazy9000

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mikecdm* 
Typically you have to pay more for an HD STB. The local HD channels should come at no additional cost. What is usually included in a HD package is ESPN HD, TNT HD, Discover HD, and a few more. THen if you have HBO or any other premium channel, you should get the HD version as well.

Right. The question he's asking is will he get those local HD channels in HD still.


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## muels7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Mikecdm* 
Typically you have to pay more for an HD STB. The local HD channels should come at no additional cost. What is usually included in a HD package is ESPN HD, TNT HD, Discover HD, and a few more. THen if you have HBO or any other premium channel, you should get the HD version as well.

Yes, I supposedly get those HD channels that you mentioned (not the premium ones), because they are listed in my channel line up for my package (Digital Starter). Why do they even bother giving them to me though if I cannot watch them in HD because they did not give me an HD STB?

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
Right. The question he's asking is will he get those local HD channels in HD still.

Yes, exactly. I get those HD channels, but will they be in HD even without the HD STB?


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## Crazy9000

I can tell you if you plug the cable straight into your TV from the wall they will work in HD. I cannot speak for any other method of connecting, but honestly I don't see why it wouldn't just work.


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## Ruckol1

I'm pretty sure component will give you 720p which is what is broadcasted by all HD tv channels and HDMI gives you 1080p but only true 1080 comes from blu rays and ps3.


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## muels7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Crazy9000* 
I can tell you if you plug the cable straight into your TV from the wall they will work in HD. I cannot speak for any other method of connecting, but honestly I don't see why it wouldn't just work.

Well, I would do that, but then I would miss comcast's channel guide and OnDemand and such. Also, the way I have all my VCR's and DVD players hooked up right now, they all rout through the Coaxial cable from a switch. (because my old tv is so old all it has is coaxial)

Quote:


Originally Posted by *Ruckol1* 
I'm pretty sure component will give you 720p which is what is broadcasted by all HD tv channels and HDMI gives you 1080p but only true 1080 comes from blu rays and ps3.

But if you had read the rest of the thread u would know that doesn't help me because my box does not output component or HDMI, only coaxial and composite.


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## spice003

they wont give you HD box because you're not paying for HD, if you get HD package they will send you an HD box, the only way for you to get HD without the box is connecting the cable to your tv. basic HD channels are always on even without the cable box, so your tv can decoded them. Premium HD channels you have to pay for, and they will only work with the cable box.


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## muels7

Quote:



Originally Posted by *spice003*


they wont give you HD box because you're not paying for HD, if you get HD package they will send you an HD box, the only way for you to get HD without the box is connecting the cable to your tv. basic HD channels are always on even without the cable box, so your tv can decoded them. Premium HD channels you have to pay for, and they will only work with the cable box.


So the HD channels that I am paying for I can only get in HD if I connect the cable directly to the TV and bypass the Cable Box all together?


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## spice003

you're not paying for HD channels cause if you were they would give you an HD box, and if you are paying for HD channels then your being ripped off.


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## muels7

Quote:



Originally Posted by *spice003*


you're not paying for HD channels cause if you were they would give you an HD box, and if you are paying for HD channels then your being ripped off.


Yes, I am paying for HD channels because they are listed in my channel line up. I'm just not paying for the HD package. Well since no one can agree on whether I can or can't get HD, I guess I will just have to wait until I get everything hooked up next week.


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## Thedark1337

=.= Coaxial will be able to handle HD channels as long as your TV has a digital built in tuner. Mine does and im getting broadcast channels. IDK about the premium cable channels, but im getting all the broadcast channels from my antenna. IIRC premium channels are encrypted and need a decoder box ( the HD set top box people are mentioning) IF you are paying for HD channels with no HD box, no premium channels for you


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## newphase

HDMI or a tv with DVI (same thing, just doesnt carry audio).


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## Thedark1337

Quote:



Originally Posted by *newphase*


HDMI or a tv with DVI (same thing, just doesnt carry audio).


technically DVI could carry audio through an adapter on the ATI 4xxx series


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## Mr Bear

Going from the box, itself, to your TV, yes you will need either HDMI (video/audio), or component cables+stereo rca cables (unless you are running sound full time through your stereo.


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## Thedark1337

No he will not, he can connect coax to the TV and it will have audio. I also have a setup like that


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## muels7

I am just going to wait until the TV is delivered to see if I get HD or not since you guys can't agree if I will or will not be able to get it through coaxial


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## Thedark1337

Sigh i know you can get the Local channels under 100 for broadcast. But if it were anything above that, or premium channels you wouldn't be able to get them with coaxial only


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## muels7

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Thedark1337*


Sigh i know you can get the Local channels under 100 for broadcast. But if it were anything above that, or premium channels you wouldn't be able to get them with coaxial only


Well, thats just great. All my HD channels are above 100. Looks like I may have to call comcast at some point this week.



































I hate having to talk to them. They always try to get me to upgrade my service. I don't need all those channels.


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## icy_cool_quad

Quote:



Originally Posted by *muels7*


Yes, I am paying for HD channels because they are listed in my channel line up. I'm just not paying for the HD package. Well since no one can agree on whether I can or can't get HD, I guess I will just have to wait until I get everything hooked up next week.


No your not paying for HD channels. Just because they are in your line up doesn't mean you can watch them. Heck, I have Cinemax and Showtime listed in my guide but I cant watch them because I'm only paying for HBO. HD channels are free btw, you only pay a few extra bucks for the box.

The answer to your question is no, you do not need an HDMI cable for HD channels. Component cables and Coaxial cables can easily carry HD signals as mentioned eariler, I think the question you should be asking is can you get HD with your standard set top box, which is no. You need to call up Comcast and tell them to send you a HD set top box. It should come with some component cables which are just fine for HD as they can carry up to 1080p but at the moment there isn't a cable company broadcasting 1080p (only in 720p and 1080i).

You can also get HD through the Coaxial cable by bypassing the set top box altogether but you will only get local HD chanels, the premium ones such as HBO and ESPN and so on are encrypted and require a HD box.

Hope this helps!


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## bloodmack

When you say HDTV does it outputs in 1080p or 720p? Is it LCD or Plasma? HDMI is the best way, less cords, but component works to (I think HDMI gives a better signal then component).


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## muels7

Quote:


Originally Posted by *bloodmack* 
When you say HDTV does it outputs in 1080p or 720p? Is it LCD or Plasma? HDMI is the best way, less cords, but component works to (I think HDMI gives a better signal then component).

I put the link to the TV in the OP i think, but it is 1080p and LCD.


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