# Below Ambient AMD (Ryzen 3000 & Navi)



## Fisbwp283

Well, I guess i'll take the plunge then!

I have a glycol chiller from the beverage industry, it's comfortable at -10c dissipating 780watts of heat, which with GPU and CPU in the loop should be ok to keep fairly stable at around -10C.

Time for some flow testing.


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## Socks keep you warm

They run cool enough as is, no need in below ambient cooling. Unless your benching the average user won't see a point in below ambient cooling.


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## Fisbwp283

I guess the average user isn't posting in "specialised cooling" either.


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## ShrimpBrime

This is neat! Love to see some pictures!
You mention below ambient but are running below freezing  - I can dig that. 

So I run a Geothermal loop for sub ambient and that over a TEC for sub zero temps. 
Do not have a Ryzen 3000 series chip while I do have a 2700X and other various lesser model Ryzen based chips.

My next adventure is perhaps a try at passive cooling to see what I could get away with if my Cpu fan ever died lol. But that's for a different topic.


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

All Cpus that exist responds well to temperatures
Temp is key to more overclocking.

Keeping the voltage same, but dropping temps instantly gets you at least 0.1GHZ increace in all cores prime stable.

5 to 10c decreace in core temps can get you 0.1GHZ in FX and Ryzen CPUS

If you want to save money and get top perfomance and save time.
Just buy faster cpus.
OC dosen't do much, its more about the fun.

Below ambient you can only do up to 5c more than that it condensates and dies.
For xtreme epexct to replace motherboards every 1to 12 months. (My exprience with xtemere)


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## ShrimpBrime

Iwamotto Tetsuz said:


> All Cpus that exist responds well to temperatures
> Temp is key to more overclocking.
> 
> Keeping the voltage same, but dropping temps instantly gets you at least 0.1GHZ increace in all cores prime stable.
> 
> 5 to 10c decreace in core temps can get you 0.1GHZ in FX and Ryzen CPUS
> 
> If you want to save money and get top perfomance and save time.
> Just buy faster cpus.
> OC dosen't do much, its more about the fun.
> 
> Below ambient you can only do up to 5c more than that it condensates and dies.
> For xtreme epexct to replace motherboards every 1to 12 months. (My exprience with xtemere)


In the way past, I've experience some processors that prefer a warmer temp rather than cold or 0 and sub zero. 
Ran into many many 754 chips that where cold bugged. Found a nice little Paris core that hit 3.2ghz though... diamond in the rough I suppose.
FX responds super very well to colder temps. The colder the better. There is no voltage limitation there and any overclock would help an FX Cpu. 
Ryzen chips seem to Wall pretty hard in comparison to FX chips.
One thing that is true, lower the temps is always better. 

Funny you mention just buy faster cpus..... I find that those get overclocked too. lol.

"Overcloking is about the passion, not about how much you clock
Overclocking is not about the pefromance gains, it is about the passion
Overclocking is about the Fun, Enjoyment and Passion"

Love your sig dude.


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

Spending the money on the xtreme cooling gives dimineshing returns
Compared to the fancy CPU w a cheap 120mm AIO chiller + OC

I belive overclocking is stupid if you want outright perfomance and you currently are water chilled with AIO water 120mm rads or better.


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## ShrimpBrime

I do agree 100%. But I'm an enthusiast and take interest in specialized cooling such as glycol chillers and SS.... probably because I've never used either cooling type apparatus.
But done plenty of other chilling methods, just about all the other chilling methods in fact. 

Currently running 2700X on stock air. -30c didn't make any difference in max OC, but did allow the use of lower volts at X oc.


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

The 2600 ryzen I have dosen't seem to exibit any walls
It scales very well with voltages and will clock higher if I give it more chill.
Only talking about prime stable OC 

With the FX I find that lower temperatures goign from 30c water to 0C water temps in water loop dosen't help much with the outright cpuz vadilation overclocks though 0.1to 0.2GHZ gains at most from the 5.2to5.3 GHZ region

EDIT:
I belive your hitting a wall with the motherboard to CPU lane and you need to somehow fine tune motheboard voltages to get more
Or you can be hitting a wall where the input and output impedance becomes mismatched in CPU area due to increace in frequency (I belive is unlikely though)
You said -30c as comparison to some standard ambients say 20c.


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## ShrimpBrime

Well no walls on ambient usage clocks, just a wall at max clock or max cpu-z validation. (Ryzen)

Well with FX chips that really depends on the leakage characteristics of that one particular processor. 
But your rough figures sound very accurate to me.
However my 9590 max at 5.6ghz with cores shut down.
Could bench at 5.4ghz with all 8 cores.
Processor temps at that time where around 16c (if my aging memory serves tonight)


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

It could also possibly be the people at AMD delibratlry putting things inside the CPU to stop LN2 and professional users like you getting higher


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## ShrimpBrime

Iwamotto Tetsuz said:


> It could also possibly be the people at AMD delibratlry putting things inside the CPU to stop LN2 and professional users like you getting higher


That's an interesting comment. I'll bite the bait then.

I didn't use LN2 to achieve only -30c. That was a Peltier.

I'm far from pro bro. Definitely not nearly as pro as yourself  (poke poke)


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## ShrimpBrime

Iwamotto Tetsuz said:


> EDIT:
> I belive your hitting a wall with the motherboard to CPU lane and you need to somehow fine tune motheboard voltages to get more
> Or you can be hitting a wall where the input and output impedance becomes mismatched in CPU area due to increace in frequency (I belive is unlikely though)
> You said -30c as comparison to some standard ambients say 20c.


That ninja edit though.

IBT stable at 4.1ghz 16T -voltages on auto. Ryzen 2700X. Stock air cooling.
IBT stable at 4300mhz 8c - manual voltage - stock air cooling. 
And lowest clock achieved was about 550mhz.

Is it always just about prime stable overclocks?? Edit: oh wait I didn't use Prime95 for stability testing.... sry bout that misunderstanding there!


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

I only get 4.1GHZ stable on prime with water on 2600. 
Only 4.075GHZ when room temp 25C compared to 18-20C

I'm only about prime stable overclocks since I'm using the pc daily to do something and needs to be reliable.


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## ShrimpBrime

I use my 2700X every day.
Haven't in a few days now, but folding stable at said above clocks. (minus that 550mhz lol)
Cheating, as mentioned enthusiast. My chip is also de-lidded.


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

I'd have a hard time deliding my cpu with the solder on it.
Killed two fx8350 from dielding.

I guess the 2700 is a much better chip at oc than the ryzen 2600.
I'm drawing 187W with a maximum prime stable oc of 4.1GHZ

If its IBT stable should also be prime stable


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## Fisbwp283

I did some flow testing and some heat load testing. Looks like I will only get to -2.7 Celsius at a sufficient flow with 30% propylene glycol and a 380watt heat load.

Which being the case, it might be simpler to just run distilled water or a Byrne and bank much higher flow rates.

Toxic coolants won’t be an option as I still need to run beer lines though the chiller bath. So it looks like a need to be satisfied at just below zero.

For those interested.
35w 240v gylycol agitator pump
Rated 2000L/h @ 20c water
- restricted down to G1/4
H2O only
- flow at 40c 830L/h 
- flow at 0.5c 830L/h & 675L/h with EK Velocity CPU block
70/30 H2O & Glycol
- 830L/h @ 0.5C & 490l/h with CPU block
- 568L/h @ -2.7c & 240L/h with CPU block
- 345l/h @-7c and 55L/h with CPU
50/50 H2O & Glycol
- 250L/h @ -5c and 50L/h with CPU block
- 150L/h @ -10c & 30L/hr with CPU block

The fins on the CPU block really don’t like the added viscosity at low temps!!

Adding a pump in series raises the pressure too high for the radiator I have... which is rated to 800mBar...and I will need for the chill box.

So practical limits for me will be between 0 to -3. Which also works out to be the sweet spot for heat loading so that the chiller compressor still heat cycles.

Does anyone have experience building a N2 flooded dessicator? I’d prefer to totally avoid the condensation issue by just using a nitrogen atmosphere.


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## Cerberus

is this for 24/7 use? I ran a SS phase back on my 955BE, it ran well for a long long time, but I ended up getting pin rot, even with die-electric grease in the cpu socket. 4 pins fell off.


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## Iwamotto Tetsuz

Cerberus said:


> is this for 24/7 use? I ran a SS phase back on my 955BE, it ran well for a long long time, but I ended up getting pin rot, even with die-electric grease in the cpu socket. 4 pins fell off.


I never had pin proplbemsa
Used the knedable eraser, zero dilectric grease used.
Made the socket air tight after cpu installed on the mobo.

Instead of dilectric grease used straight liquid tape on the exposed areas to fully prevent water.


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## Fisbwp283

Cerberus said:


> is this for 24/7 use? I ran a SS phase back on my 955BE, it ran well for a long long time, but I ended up getting pin rot, even with die-electric grease in the cpu socket. 4 pins fell off.


Yes 24/7.

Corrosion that caused your pin rot only occur with both oxygen and moisture (hydrolysis/electrolysis & oxidation)... so in a dry nitrogen atmosphere this issue is prevented. Hence my interest in anybody’s experience running a system under N2 desiccation.


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## Cerberus

Thermal_Preist said:


> Yes 24/7.
> 
> Corrosion that caused your pin rot only occur with both oxygen and moisture (hydrolysis/electrolysis & oxidation)... so in a dry nitrogen atmosphere this issue is prevented. Hence my interest in anybody’s experience running a system under N2 desiccation.


oh, you're not wrong, I ran -40c in a room with no a/c for nearly three years without disassembly. it ran fine even with those 4 pins gone (by fine i mean it was able to play cs source and browse the web)


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## Fisbwp283

ShrimpBrime said:


> I do agree 100%. But I'm an enthusiast and take interest in specialized cooling such as glycol chillers and SS.... probably because I've never used either cooling type apparatus.
> But done plenty of other chilling methods, just about all the other chilling methods in fact.
> 
> Currently running 2700X on stock air. -30c didn't make any difference in max OC, but did allow the use of lower volts at X oc.


Just curious what flow rate you are getting at -30c and what fluid?
also, how many pumps in series are you using?


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## Fisbwp283

After doing some more flow testing and temp testing, i think i can control the pressure and temps down to -20c at 42-45% glycol for benchmarks, i think -12 will be the limit for full load continuous operation with 1 GPU.
But to get sufficient flow at G1/4 i will need to add pumps.

Option 1
- two pumps in series and remove CPU jet plate giving a fluid flow:
Chiller > Agitator pump > RAD > twin d5 in series > CPU > GPU(s) > Chiller
with Jet plate in, the pressures spike when flowing enough.

Option 2
- one pump for CPU with jet plate still in
- one pump for GPU
- common return to chiller.

Has anyone run Glycol like this before? what was the solution for jet plate restrictions?


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## ShrimpBrime

Thermal_Preist said:


> Just curious what flow rate you are getting at -30c and what fluid?
> also, how many pumps in series are you using?


Flow rate is variable. However it's (water) not cooling a processor, it's cooling a TEC which cools the cpu to -30c.

I was merely stating that even at such a temperature, -30c, there was no more to be gained with a 2700X processor. Better results with Ryzen chips would be under an LN2 pot. sry for any confusion there.


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## clannagh

Iwamotto Tetsuz said:


> Spending the money on the xtreme cooling gives dimineshing returns
> Compared to the fancy CPU w a cheap 120mm AIO chiller + OC
> 
> I belive overclocking is stupid if you want outright perfomance and you currently are water chilled with AIO water 120mm rads or better.



Overclocking older tech often has the same practical value as hot-rodding your dad's 1980's Mitsubushi Galant. 

Whilst there may be street cred in having the fastest Mitsubushi Galant in the state, it is still going to be slower than your mum's stock 2019 model SUV.


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## Fisbwp283

An update of Sorts,

I was about to pull the trigger on an X570 Aorus Xtreme MB and wait for the 3950x...but given the delays, i'm waiting to see what launches with threadripper and look at thermal and OC results before i start this build.

in the mean time, i seem to have the pumping situation sorted, but i now need a way to have PWM control of 4 D5 pumps. which will lock me into a high end MB with lots of 4 pin PWM headers, which i'll need when not running sub zero.

I have one Glycol pump which gets flow to the radiator at -25c but it's not enough so i want to split the loop to keep pressures under control and keep running the jet plate on the CPU block.
so flow will be:
Chiller>GP>RAD>Y1&2
Y1>EkD5>EKD5>CPU>Chiller
Y2>EkD5>EKD5>CPU>Chiller


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## Fisbwp283

After much trial and error.

New plan.

Dual pathway cooling with pathway selected by simple valve

pathway 1
- 30% Glycol chiller bath with agitator and chiller coils in closed loop with PC
- Ethanol + water cooling fluid.
- negative 10 Celsius target

Pathway 2
- DICE reservoir with chiller coils in closed loop with PC
- Pure Ethanol as cooling fluid
- Negative 70-80 Celsius target

To-Do
-Build gas tight chill box that can be nitrogen flooded to prevent condensation.


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