# [VC] GTX 980 benches



## BackwoodsNC

http://videocardz.com/52166/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-gtx-970-gtx-980m-gtx-970m-3dmark-performance

Here we go! Love new GPUs


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## <({D34TH})>

"Videocardz"

Eh


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## GoldenTiger

200 less and 15 to 20 percent faster than ref 780 ti on the same node, all while taking less power? /sign me up.


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## Redwoodz

Hmm...295X for $1000 or 290 crossfire for $700 or GTX980SLi for $1600. No brainer. Guess we have to wait for next gen for any new performance.


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## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *<({D34TH})>*
> 
> "Videocardz"
> 
> Eh


wccf is a forum troll mill. Videocardz does try to source real info as best they can.


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## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redwoodz*
> 
> Hmm...295X for $1000 or GTX980SLi for $1600. No brainer. Guess we have to wait for next gen for any new performance.


Lol @your pricing. 980 is not $800.


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## Exilon

Tested with i5 and i3?

Okay.


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## Marc79

From the benchmarks, clock for clock the 980 is pretty much equal to 780 Ti, while being more efficient ofcourse and 4GB vram vs 3GB.


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## Redwoodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Lol @your pricing. 980 is not $800.


How much is it? Just a rough guess,but since 780Ti's are $700ish...


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## Yvese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redwoodz*
> 
> How much is it? Just a rough guess,but since 780Ti's are $750ish...


Rumors say $499 which is a nice price. If these perf figures are true I'm curious how AMD responds. They might drop the 290x to $449 and 290 to $349.

Everyone wins really.


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## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redwoodz*
> 
> How much is it? Just a rough guess,but since 780Ti's are $750ish...


I'm willing to bet it's going to officially push the 780 down to a $400 to $450 price point and its MSRP will probably be around $500 to $550


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## Marc79

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redwoodz*
> 
> How much is it? Just a rough guess,but since 780Ti's are $750ish...


I think the speculation is 499$, with custom coolers probably extra 30-50$.


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## andressergio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BackwoodsNC*
> 
> http://videocardz.com/52166/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-gtx-970-gtx-980m-gtx-970m-3dmark-performance
> 
> Here we go! Love new GPUs


How come they publish predictions without Testing the Product OMG...


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## BigMack70

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redwoodz*
> 
> How much is it? Just a rough guess,but since 780Ti's are $700ish...


I thought the 980 was a pretty solid bet to be about $500, but time will tell I guess.

Anyways, this looks like a snooze release from Nvidia. If these performance #s are true, then this card is not a meaningful upgrade from 780/780ti/290/290x.


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## NABBO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exilon*
> 
> Tested with i5 and i3?
> 
> Okay.


Tested with i7/i5/i3


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## Majin SSJ Eric

Looks like a decent performance upgrade over the 780Ti to me but it certainly is not going to make GK110 obsolete all the sudden. Besides, my Titans will still have 6GB memory and be a true high end card rather than a small-die GK104 redeaux...


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## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marc79*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Redwoodz*
> 
> How much is it? Just a rough guess,but since 780Ti's are $750ish...
> 
> 
> 
> I think the speculation is 499$, with custom coolers probably extra 30-50$.
Click to expand...

That doesn't fall in line with their premium positions. It would be like giving fps away for free and that is rather counter to Nv philosophy?


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## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Looks like a decent performance upgrade over the 780Ti to me but it certainly is not going to make GK110 obsolete all the sudden. Besides, my Titans will still have 6GB memory and be a true high end card rather than a small-die GK104 redeaux...


at similar clock speeds performance looks about the same as the 780ti. though this is just one benchmark and not an actual game.


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## NABBO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Looks like a decent performance upgrade over the 780Ti


Are you kidding?
Quote:


> to me but it certainly is not going to make GK110 obsolete all the sudden. Besides, my Titans will still have 6GB memory and be a true high end card rather than a small-die GK104 redeaux...


and GTX980/970 even 8GB vram


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## The Source

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andressergio*
> 
> How come they publish predictions without Testing the Product OMG...


I think most are going to believe these numbers are real which is unfortunate.


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## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Source*
> 
> I think most are going to believe these numbers are real which is unfortunate.


Read the article they are not and just averaged results. ,


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## CynicalUnicorn

Hang on. So yesterday, they reported that it would compete with the 780. Now it's tying a 780Ti stock and beating it overclocked?

Second, 6GB VRAM? What? The flagship has 4GB and the SKU right below it has 50% more? That wouldn't happen. It would be 3GB with a gimped bus. However, based on previous generations, it's highly improbable that the 970 WON'T be 256-bit with 4GB VRAM.

Third, I'm so glad they included pictures of the cards and system! Oh, wait. The alternative is that they don't actually have the cards on hand and just appropriated the data from some other source, giving no credit in the process.

Finally, VC is the only site out there with these benches. So I'm going to call crap. This story is a farm after being fertilized and using irrigation from the sewer.


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## The Source

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Read the article they are not and just averaged results. ,


I did read it and you're not understanding what I said.


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## steve210

well i guess it will be good bye to my 670 those benches look real i hope


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## i7monkey

more made up nonsense


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## thrgk

what is the 980 vram? 3gb or 6?


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## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BackwoodsNC*
> 
> http://videocardz.com/52166/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-gtx-970-gtx-980m-gtx-970m-3dmark-performance
> 
> Here we go! Love new GPUs


I just started laughing when looking at this... They want us to believe 2x 980s still can't hang with a 295x2So then, by their metric, 980 is exactly as fast as 780Ti?

haaaaaaaaaaahahahahahhahahahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaa


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## NABBO

imo
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thrgk*
> 
> what is the 980 vram? 3gb or 6?


970/980 4 and 8GB


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## Marc79

Hopefully the "real" 980 is a bit faster than a 780 Ti, at least 10-15% clock for clock.


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## VeerK

If the 980SLI can't even beat a 295x2 in these "benchmarks" I see no reason to upgrade. Still waiting for Pascal.


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## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VeerK*
> 
> If the 980SLI can't even beat a 295x2 in these "benchmarks" I see no reason to upgrade. Still waiting for Pascal.


It's a joke. It in all forms is a JOKE. Literally, Videocardz is straight trolling right now. Do some googling of the 3DMark numbers of 2x 780Ti. Even better, they show these cards running at damn near 1.2ghz, still not as fast as 295x2 hjaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaha





































































































I better sell my Vanilla Titans RIGHT NOW, & pickup some of the $999 295x2 action!


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## tpi2007

I'm not much into Firestrike and Futuremark, are these submissions easy to fake ?

Because I just searched for the GTX 980 result VC posted at the end of the article and found it. It does exist.

Here:

The search results:http://www.3dmark.com/search#/?mode=advanced&url=/proxycon/ajax/search/cpu/fs/P/1419/10485?minScore=10415&cpuName=Intel%20Core%20i7-3770K%20Processor&gpuName=Nvidia%20GeForce%20GTX%20980

The result page itself: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2701047


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## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *VeerK*
> 
> If the 980SLI can't even beat a 295x2 in these "benchmarks" I see no reason to upgrade. Still waiting for Pascal.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a joke. It in all forms is a JOKE. Literally, Videocardz is straight trolling right now. Do some googling of the 3DMark numbers of 2x 780Ti. Even better, they show these cards running at damn near 1.2ghz, still not as fast as 295x2 hjaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaha
> 
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> 
> I better sell my Vanilla Titans RIGHT NOW, & pickup some of the $999 295x2 action!
Click to expand...

Not with so much







but yea 295s are not that fast... lol.


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## skupples

You have non-LN2 780Ti hittin 20k in Firestrike... I mean come on VIDEOCARDZ, you aren't even trying anymore!

Oh, just saw a tribute to Zawarudo on the HOF... Wonder who that is.


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## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Oh, just saw a tribute to Zawarudo on the HOF... Wonder who that is.


No idea, but on the topic of 295s... I'm like 30 places above the next 295x2 x2 setup in x4 FS... with 7970s lol.


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## kingduqc

Edit: I've read it once.

At this point, under 2 weeks from release/unveiling and they can't even tell us on what node this is all the "leaks" are fishy imo. None the less the performance gain seems really low over a 780ti, but if it's 500$ well it's decent enough I guess. more Vram is always nice to have for sli config and scaling seems like dog poop as always. Mixed feelings about this.


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## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> No idea, but on the topic of 295s... I'm like 30 places above the next 295x2 x2 setup in x4 FS... with 7970s lol.


show off


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## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Source*
> 
> I did read it and you're not understanding what I said.


You agreed that they were predictions when they are actually test numbers. You didn't say anything but that.


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## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingduqc*
> 
> *"Before you ask, no, we do not have any final specifications as of yet. Sure, we have our predictions, but that's something you can find in our previous posts. Today we are only looking at synthetic performance."*
> 
> Oh yeah, you got the cards and tested them... But you are clueless about the specs on em?
> 
> *"After hours of work, combining all the data into one piece"*
> 
> They did some math on the rumors of specs and supposed performance out of Nvidia slides(or 750ti's review) and that's the fancy graph we are looking at?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, under 2 weeks from release/unveiling and they can't even tell us on what node this is all the "leaks" are fishy imo. None the less the performance gain seems really low over a 780ti, but if it's 500$ well it's decent enough I guess. more Vram is always nice to have for sli config and scaling seems like dog poop as always. Mixed feelings about this.


^^That's comical!


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## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kingduqc*
> 
> *"Before you ask, no, we do not have any final specifications as of yet. Sure, we have our predictions, but that's something you can find in our previous posts. Today we are only looking at synthetic performance."*
> 
> Oh yeah, you got the cards and tested them... But you are clueless about the specs on em?
> 
> *"After hours of work, combining all the data into one piece"*
> 
> They did some math on the rumors of specs and supposed performance out of Nvidia slides(or 750ti's review) and that's the fancy graph we are looking at?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point, under 2 weeks from release/unveiling and they can't even tell us on what node this is all the "leaks" are fishy imo. None the less the performance gain seems really low over a 780ti, but if it's 500$ well it's decent enough I guess. more Vram is always nice to have for sli config and scaling seems like dog poop as always. Mixed feelings about this.


For God's sake. They said they combined actual performance result from the 3dmark data base. They did not randomly theorize anything. Read, the, article! They are not predictions. They did not say they personally had cards. Good grief!


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## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> For God's sake. They said they combined actual performance result from the 3dmark data base. They did not randomly theorize anything. Read, the, article! They are not predictions. They did not say they personally had cards. Good grief!


You write on vc? VC always was a poor rumor site. Down there with wccf


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## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> For God's sake. They said they combined actual performance result from the 3dmark data base. They did not randomly theorize anything. Read, the, article! They are not predictions. They did not say they personally had cards. Good grief!


wait, you want us to actually take what they are saying at face value? You gone done lost your mind.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> You write on vc? VC always was a poor rumor site. Down there with wccf


not really a surprise since WCCF & VC... you know... copy each other constantly. Attempting to use each other as validation for claims...


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## tpi2007

So, anybody looked at the link I provided above ? Is it easy to fake these submissions or not ?


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## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> So, anybody looked at the link I provided above ? Is it easy to fake these submissions or not ?


Is that a trick question?


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## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> wait, you want us to actually take what they are saying at face value? You gone done lost your mind.


One submission was already linked by tpi2007: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2701047

This "It comes from site X so it must be fake/made up" thing has gone too far lately. Read the article, look at the source information and ask yourself if it's fake. In this case the source is actual submissions in the 3dmark database. Please tell me if the link above is fake and made up.

And I trust the article because I've personally seen all (or at least almost all of them) of the submissions that these numbers are based on. The people who found them can post those themselves, I'm not going to steal their work, however if you go digging they're there, and there's a lot of them.

Anyway;

The SLI numbers obviously have terrible scaling for whatever reason. Most likely drivers and CPUs used. But the 980 single scores are around 10-15% faster than stock reference 780Ti scores.


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## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> So, anybody looked at the link I provided above ? Is it easy to fake these submissions or not ?


they OBVIOUSLY didn't submit them!!! Duh!!! They ran 3Dmark in offline mode!


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## DarkBlade6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CynicalUnicorn*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hang on. So yesterday, they reported that it would compete with the 780. Now it's tying a 780Ti stock and beating it overclocked?
> 
> *Second, 6GB VRAM? What? The flagship has 4GB and the SKU right below it has 50% more?* That wouldn't happen. It would be 3GB with a gimped bus. However, based on previous generations, it's highly improbable that the 970 WON'T be 256-bit with 4GB VRAM.
> 
> Third, I'm so glad they included pictures of the cards and system! Oh, wait. The alternative is that they don't actually have the cards on hand and just appropriated the data from some other source, giving no credit in the process.
> 
> Finally, VC is the only site out there with these benches. So I'm going to call crap. This story is a farm after being fertilized and using irrigation from the sewer.


They are talking about the 970M not the desktop 970, it seems like it will have 6GB VRAM on 192bit bus memory interface and they never said anywhere what amount of VRAM the 980M is supposed to have. Im guessing 8GB, mobile GPU tend to have more VRAM than their desktop counterpart, so it actually make sense. And they never said that they got the cards, they just data-mined the scores from 3DMark. Stop laughing and read a bit more next time.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> That doesn't fall in line with their premium positions. It would be like giving fps away for free and that is rather counter to Nv philosophy?


Thats whats I was wondering too... the 500$ rumored price doesnt seems right, if these benchies are real, then the 980 can beat a 780 ti @ stock or OC, have more Vram, better power consumption Etc. So it means that they will have to price the 780 ti at less than 500$ and the 780 for less than 400$, cause the 970 can beat it. Its possible but very unlikely.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> I just started laughing when looking at this... They want us to believe 2x 980s still can't hang with a 295x2So then, by their metric, 980 is exactly as fast as 780Ti?
> 
> haaaaaaaaaaahahahahahhahahahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaa


Its clearly a drivers issue, the 295x2 has almost perfect scaling where as the 980 is about 60%... or maybe Maxwell just doesnt scale very well


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## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> So, anybody looked at the link I provided above ? Is it easy to fake these submissions or not ?
> 
> 
> 
> Is that a trick question?
Click to expand...

No, if you read my first post, I specifically say: "*I'm not much into Firestrike and Futuremark*, are these submissions easy to fake ?" Since some people just skip the details because of the source and many times don't even read the article until the end, I figured I should ask if their comments were based on a specific premise and not the fact that this was posted by VC.

I assume by your answer that they are easy to fake.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> So, anybody looked at the link I provided above ? Is it easy to fake these submissions or not ?
> 
> 
> 
> they OBVIOUSLY didn't submit them!!! Duh!!! They ran 3Dmark in offline mode!
Click to expand...

How does that relate to the fact the link I provided is from a page hosted on Futuremark's servers ?


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## Maximillian-E

One of these days I might just upgrade that 480.


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## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> So, anybody looked at the link I provided above ? Is it easy to fake these submissions or not ?


I wondering how it can be done that so easy? or it is possible!?

I know catzilla has 980 GPU support VC may provide it just to make sure.


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## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> How does that relate to the fact the link I provided is from a page hosted on Futuremark's servers ?


Or the fact that there are tons of these subs.

As I said in my previous post, I'm not going to steal the work of others by posting them but if you go digging there's a lot of 980 submissions in there. I've seen a lot of them.

And the single 980 scores that I've seen put it 10-15% above a stock reference 780Ti in FS.


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## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> I assume by your answer that they are easy to fake.


I wouldn't say easy, but very possible. For a while there was a 750ti in the top 5 of the HoF. There were a whole slew of obvious fakes along with it. That means supposedly validated subs. They were hacked obviously.


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## iamhollywood5

Wish I sold my 780 Ti a month ago. I waited too long. If these benches and rumored price points are real then my GPU value just took a $200+ hit. I mean if Nvidia sells this level of performance for $500, that's great that they backed off on the price gouging, but any of us who paid full price for any GK110 card got fleeced.


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## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> How does that relate to the fact the link I provided is from a page hosted on Futuremark's servers ?
> 
> 
> 
> Or the fact that there are tons of these subs.
> 
> As I said in my previous post, I'm not going to steal the work of others by posting them but if you go digging there's a lot of 980 submissions in there. I've seen a lot of them.
Click to expand...

Why do you feel that posting results from a publicly accessible database is "stealing the work of others" ? I presume you're referring to the tech media ?

In any case, I just posted the link to the page whose screenshot VC posts at the end of the article. Just search for the CPU used, the GPU used and the result. It will show up.


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## skupples

I don't see any 980 submissions when polling 3770k & 980


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## Slomo4shO

Yay, rumor mill...


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## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> I assume by your answer that they are easy to fake.
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't say easy, but very possible. For a while there was a 750ti in the top 5 of the HoF. There were a whole slew of obvious fakes along with it. That means supposedly validated subs. They were hacked obviously.
Click to expand...

I didn't know that, thanks.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> I don't see any 980 submissions when polling 3770k & 980


Read my original post. I even posted the link with the search criteria and results. It doesn't show up as GTX 980 in the results page, but as Generic VGA, which is what is listed first in the page itself (the specific score is listed at the end of the results page because I searched for a results interval).


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## VeerK

If these numbers are legit, I'm really curious now how prices for the 970 and 980 will affect the 780/780ti for people who would go SLI vs jump to Maxwell.


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## skupples

that is one tough generic VGA pill to swallow... under assumption of legitimacy, better hope a driver wakes them up.

I don't even know if its worth it to swap in 3x titans for 1x 295x2, and a $3-400 in cash left over... could easily get $600 a piece for my titans, if i listed them before 9xx drops. $999 on 295x2 won't last very long, and the blocks are ~$150, so that would easily leave me with $500 to toss in the bank.


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## Master__Shake

499 for a 980ti?

hmm gonna have some extra 780's soon


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## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> that is one tough generic VGA pill to swallow... under assumption of legitimacy, better hope a driver wakes them up.
> 
> I don't even know if its worth it to swap in 3x titans for 1x 295x2, and a $3-400 in cash left over... could easily get $600 a piece for my titans, if i listed them before 9xx drops. $999 on 295x2 won't last very long, and the blocks are ~$150, so that would easily leave me with $500 to toss in the bank.


Who cares about the 295x2 , I want me some dual GPU maxwell card!


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## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Why do you feel that posting results from a publicly accessible database is "stealing the work of others" ? I presume you're referring to the tech media ?


Because if someone shares hard to find 3dm subs of 980s under the assumption that you're not going to plaster them all over different forums and then you plaster them all over different forums I would personally call that at the very least really rude.

Anyway, the point is that the scores aren't made up. I don't know if VC used the exact scores that I've seen but their numbers (and clocks etc.) seem almost identical to what I've seen.


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## hwoverclkd

If it were to be believed, 980 comes almost the same as 780 Ti clock for clock. If that would be in $500 range, great! But what are they gonna do with lots of existing 780 Ti's on the retailers shelves? I guess I should keep an eye out on Ti prices


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## bossie2000

Ye well the performance bump to me is a joke.But anyway i see where Nvidia is going with this.First a new layout almost every time means new futures(we hope) .Second , it's getting on to Christmass so
the normal public(not our abnormal overclocking geeks) wil go like "Hey dad look a brand new Nvidia card!! Can i have one please... But back to the GPU itself.I wish the Nvidia(and maybe AMD also) could just have wait out another 3-6 months and do the 20nm thing!! When we should have seen real performace jump like 50% plus.


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## Stay Puft

Beating a Ti for 499.99 is a steal no matter what way you slice it.

Ti is obviously going EOL soon if the rumors are correct.


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## skupples

I only see one generic Nvidia GPU(under 3770k) that looks like it would qualify for Maxwell, the rest have odd dates, just seem a bit early for anything near end user quality.

So, we are to assume that anything posting as generic VGA from march forward is Maxwell? Seems a slight stretch.

so are the generic AMD submissions the 295x?

I mean, logic would dictate that if we are assuming recent generic NV datapoints are maxwell, then generic AMD datapoints from the same time frame can ONLY be their next product.


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## Booty Warrior

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Beating a Ti for 499.99 is a steal no matter what way you slice it.
> 
> Ti is obviously going EOL soon if the rumors are correct.


It's had it's time. I, for one, welcome our new Maxwell overlords.


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## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> so are the generic AMD submissions the 295x?


Maybe if the Futuremark database sees the driver name as R9 295X.
Quote:


> Driver name NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980


http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2701047

Also can you point out other 4GB Nvidia cards that could be responsible for ~13000 GPU score at these clocks?


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## i7monkey

I sold my 780Ti for $550. What's the point of getting this? It's basically redundant performance.


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## skupples

i must be tired... i didn't even link into the submissions.


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## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Because if someone shares hard to find 3dm subs of 980s under the assumption that you're not going to plaster them all over different forums and then you plaster them all over different forums I would personally call that at the very least really rude.
> 
> Anyway, the point is that the scores aren't made up. I don't know if VC used the exact scores that I've seen but their numbers (and clocks etc.) seem almost identical to what I've seen.


You can always give credit to them, that is the very essence of the news section. If you post a news / rumour piece you give credit to the source. I'm not sure we're on the same page here and if you're talking about news sites or people who shared results with you through other means, which would be a different case. I just went a little further because, as you said, the general reaction of people dismissing this just because it was posted by VC made me look into it and try to verify if VC's screenshot page could actually be found on the Firestrike database.

And it can, thus at least making it clear that VC didn't make up the screenshot. The submission may be fake, but that is another question.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> I only see one generic Nvidia GPU(under 3770k) that looks like it would qualify for Maxwell, the rest have odd dates, just seem a bit early for anything near end user quality.
> 
> So, we are to assume that anything posting as generic VGA from march forward is Maxwell? Seems a slight stretch.
> 
> so are the generic AMD submissions the 295x?
> 
> I mean, logic would dictate that if we are assuming recent generic NV datapoints are maxwell, then generic AMD datapoints from the same time frame can ONLY be their next product.


No, Generic VGA results are not all from GTX 980's. In order to see the GTX 980 designation you have to enter the specific results page, exactly like VC posted.

Again, here are the links to both the results page and the specific result VC posted:

http://www.3dmark.com/search#/?mode=advanced&url=/proxycon/ajax/search/cpu/fs/P/1419/10485?minScore=10415&cpuName=Intel%20Core%20i7-3770K%20Processor&gpuName=Nvidia%20GeForce%20GTX%20980

It's the last result:



http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2701047

Edit: search results without a results interval (only 7 results):

http://www.3dmark.com/search#/?mode=advanced&url=/proxycon/ajax/search/cpu/fs/P/1419/10415?minScore=10415&cpuName=Intel%20Core%20i7-3770K%20Processor&gpuName=Nvidia%20GeForce%20GTX%20980


----------



## skupples

so... nvidia milking one more 28nm run confirmed.









I would go back to the posts where people were clowning on me for suggesting this, but i'm too tipsy & tired.


----------



## Zen00

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yvese*
> 
> Rumors say $499 which is a nice price. If these perf figures are true I'm curious how AMD responds. They might drop the 290x to $449 and 290 to $349.
> 
> Everyone wins really.


AMD already responded by dropping the price of 295x2's to $1000


----------



## Marc79

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> I sold my 780Ti for $550. What's the point of getting this? It's basically redundant performance.


With a 980 you're getting extra 1GB of Vram and more efficient card. Should've kept the 780 Ti to be honest.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zen00*
> 
> AMD already responded by dropping the price of 295x2's to $1000


that isn't likely to stick though, unless that has changed... It was billed a a promotion.


----------



## HeadlessKnight

Firestrike is not the strongest point of Nvidia cards. But looking at these benches the 980 won't be much better than GK110 or Hawaii.


----------



## crazycrave

It will be interesting to see how much power it uses with that 1200 MHz clock speed..

but two dirt cheap($220) mined to death 7950's at stock clocks running on a 4 year old platform are still faster then this 980GTX overclock .. 28nm is tapped out unless AMD's 295X shows us more.

not overclocked 7950's Graphics Score 13112

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2679521


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> that isn't likely to stick though, unless that has changed... It was billed a a promotion.


only 4 weeks


----------



## i7monkey

This is more proof-of-concept to me. ~170 watts and 10% faster than Ti? Great, can't wait for 20/16nm Big Daddy Maxwell.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> only 4 weeks


Long enough for me to mull over ditching 3x titans for 1x 295x2 & a fist full of cash.


----------



## nyxagamemnon

It's basically a 780ti level performance. The 10% faster is when the ti is at a 200 Mhz core clock deficet. So just look at the same speed numbers. This is baby maxwell. The big one will jump 25-50% ahead of the ti.


----------



## zantetheo

_NVIDIA Tweaking GeForce GTX 770 Price to Compete with R9 285_

*Nvidia is dropping the price of the GeForce GTX 770 2GB around the US $275. Its pricing is down from the $325 point it was hovering over.*

The GTX 770 costs roughly the same as the GTX 760, for NVIDIA to sell, with the former only imposing slightly higher VRM requirements.

http://www.techpowerup.com/204863/nvidia-tweaking-geforce-gtx-770-price-to-compete-with-r9-285.html

I think Nvidia is making space for the upcoming GTX 970. I would expect about 350-370$ for the 970 having the about the same performance of the GTX 780.

You can do the maths for the GTX 980


----------



## AMW1011

I think its very safe to say that any GTX 780 or Hawaii based card will be able to keep up with these new cards just fine. They are impressive from an architecture stand point, especially when we get them on the correct node, but they won't change much in the current market.


----------



## djriful

Keeping my vanilla titan clocking at 1200-1250Mhz at 1.3v. I think it's on par with stock 980. Just saying.


----------



## dieanotherday

u know, if it uses only like 100W, then id be one of the best cards ever.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dieanotherday*
> 
> u know, if it uses only like 100W, then id be one of the best cards ever.


I know but that's a dream only.


----------



## raghu78

If Nvidia prices the GTX 980 at $500 that would be a break from tradition for Nvidia who have always sold their next gen high end GPUs at equal or higher prices wrt older gen. Eg : GTX 780 sold at USD 650 when compared to GTX 680 / GTX 770 which sold at USD 400. GTX 680 sold at same price as GTX 580. GTX 480 sold at USD 499 when compared to GTX 285 which sold at USD 379.

I do not think Nvidia is so generous as to give away performance for free especially when the competition is behind. We can expect a USD 650 price. Nvidia will allow clearance of existing stock of GK110 in the channel with some slight price cuts putting more pressure on AMD.

AMD needs to respond strongly with the R9 3xx series. The efficiency needs to improve and if AMD gets HBM on the high end R9 390 series then things might look better otherwise they can kiss goodbye to the high end market. Maxwell's efficiency is so far ahead that AMD has a lot of ground to cover. GM200 on 20nm would be an easy 50 - 60 % upgrade from GTX 780 Ti since 20nm is a half node in terms of power efficiency gains. In 2016 Nvidia will unleash Pascal on TSMC 16FF+ with HBM and that will easily double GTX 780 Ti perf or be even greater across the board.


----------



## Slomo4shO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Long enough for me to mull over ditching 3x titans for 1x 295x2 & a fist full of cash.


Shouldn't be any hurry, used R9 290X are still available on eBay for around $300


----------



## i7monkey

Profit aside, if I was a boss at Nvidia and employees made me a 170w card that performs 15% faster than a 780Ti I'd say, great, now toss it in the trash and build me a 250W one on a smaller process with a bigger die..

Side-grades are always a spit in the face to enthusiasts.


----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Profit aside, if I was a boss at Nvidia and employees made me a 170w card that performs 15% faster than a 780Ti I'd say, great, now toss it in the trash and build me a 250W one on a smaller process with a bigger die..
> 
> Side-grades are always a spit in the face to enthusiasts.


did you not see the mobile improvements?


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Profit aside, if I was a boss at Nvidia and employees made me a 170w card that performs 15% faster than a 780Ti I'd say, great, now toss it in the trash and build me a 250W one on a smaller process with a bigger die..
> 
> Side-grades are always a spit in the face to enthusiasts.


Nvidia and AMD are now being slowed down by the foundries who are finding it difficult to transition to FINFET and sub 20nm nodes . TSMC has allocated the lion's share of 20nm wafers to Apple for manufacturing mobile chips. 20nm wafers is not going to be available till late Q4 for Nvidia, AMD. The earliest we can see 20nm flagship GPUs is Q2 2015. that would be 3 years from the launch of GTX 680. So in the meanwhile Nvidia is doing what they can on the 28nm node. the GTX 980M would be a significant step up from GTX 880M for notebooks. For desktop enthusiasts they are better off waiting till GM200 launches in Q2 2015.


----------



## kirk007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> If Nvidia prices the GTX 980 at $500 that would be a break from tradition for Nvidia who have always sold their next gen high end GPUs at equal or higher prices wrt older gen. Eg : GTX 780 sold at USD 650 when compared to GTX 680 / GTX 770 which sold at USD 400. GTX 680 sold at same price as GTX 580. GTX 480 sold at USD 499 when compared to GTX 285 which sold at USD 379.
> 
> I do not think Nvidia is so generous as to give away performance for free especially when the competition is behind. We can expect a USD 650 price. Nvidia will allow clearance of existing stock of GK110 in the channel with some slight price cuts putting more pressure on AMD.


GTX 285 was a refresh to the GTX 280 which launched at a far higher price, compared to that GTX 480 was cheaper. GK110 has a large die and high manufacturing cost. 980 will have smaller die, apparently 256bit memory bus and seems like a similar clock for clock performance compared to the 780ti. If these are true, it will be cheaper than the 780Ti. $499 sounds about right.


----------



## i7monkey

Remember when Titan (assumed to be the 780 at the time) was rumored to go for $499-$599 and ended up at $999?









http://www.techpowerup.com/173851/NVIDIA-Kepler-Refresh-GPU-Family-Detailed.html
Quote:


> *
> Wednesday, October 17th 2012*
> 
> NVIDIA Kepler Refresh GPU Family Detailed
> 
> The GK110 will take back the reins of powering NVIDIA's flagship single-GPU product, the GeForce GTX 780. *This product could offer a massive 40-55% performance increase over GeForce GTX 680, with a price ranging anywhere between US $499 and $599.* The same chip could even power the second fastest single-GPU SKU, the GTX 770. The GK110 physically packs 2880 CUDA cores, and a 384-bit wide GDDR5 memory interface.


----------



## HeadlessKnight

GTX 980 @ $500 is already overpriced and is using the same old tradition. GM204 or whatever it really is a mid spec'd chip at at high-end price ($500+). GF104 & GF114 were both around $250-270. Same thing with GK110 and GF100/110.
Since Kepler 600 series Nvidia is charging 50%-100% more prices compared to the older counterparts of their chips. So nothing new here...
Matching or beating 780 Ti is impressive considering how much lower the 980 will be priced, also considering the TDP, regardless of the real intended purpose of the chip, but whether or not it will beat AMD next-gen that remains to be seen...


----------



## raghu78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kirk007*
> 
> GTX 285 was a refresh to the GTX 280 which launched at a far higher price, compared to that GTX 480 was cheaper. GK110 has a large die and high manufacturing cost. 980 will have smaller die, apparently 256bit memory bus and seems like a similar clock for clock performance compared to the 780ti. If these are true, it will be cheaper than the 780Ti. $499 sounds about right.


GTX 280's launch price of $650 lasted for less than a month. HD 4870 embarassed the GTX 280 and GTX 260 in perf/ $ and forced price cuts on Nvidia's flagship GPUs within 4 weeks from launch. Now thats unheard of in GPU launches. GTX 285 launched 7 months later at $400. So for the vast majority of GTX 280's life the price was $500.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2549

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2556

http://www.cnet.com/news/nvidia-cuts-prices-on-gtx-260-280-graphics-boards/


----------



## StrongForce

Well let's hope the drivers will push it at least 5-10% above the Ti, and if the card is indeed 500$ that would surely be interesting, I guess the benchmarks gonna start flooding next week, gonna be interesting read.


----------



## Crouch

If the 970 is anywhere close to $400 range, I'll instantly buy one!


----------



## supergamer

LoL 980SLI can't beat 295X2.. and only marginally better than 290CF.









980 slower than 780ti at equal clocks

Entire series is going to be small step up over prev gen..

970 will slide below 780 at higher res. And of course NO competition to a 290.

960 once again will be 192bit and hardly better than 760..
950 same as 750ti...

Plz Nvidia. Cancel this FAIL generation.


----------



## kirk007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raghu78*
> 
> GTX 280's launch price of $650 lasted for less than a month. HD 4870 embarassed the GTX 280 and GTX 260 in perf/ $ and forced price cuts on Nvidia's flagship GPUs within 4 weeks from launch. Now thats unheard of in GPU launches. GTX 285 launched 7 months later at $400. So for the vast majority of GTX 280's life the price was $500.


Your points are valid, but I still don't see GM204-based chip to launch at over $500, $549 tops. I mean I guess anything is possible after the Titan Z pricing, but also historically nVdia has never priced their midsize chips with 256bit busses over $500, the rumours suggest that the GM200 follows relatively soon and I expect that to cover the $649 and up range. I don't think this GM204 is meant for people who have GK110 in their rigs, but for ones who have GK204 or older. This is a smaller chip with targeted higher sales volume, but we'll see soon.


----------



## GreenStone

For the sake of discussion let's assume these benchmarks are true. Then all it comes down to is pricing. And this is one benchmark only. I thought the R9 290 is close to 780 in gaming performance.


----------



## Smanci

We need some power consumption and OC benches. 750Tis clock like there'd be no tomorrow and the power consumption is ridiculously low.
What I'd definitely like to see is a GTX970/80 with a <=20cm PCB and a low-noise cooling solution.


----------



## DarkBlade6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deletive*
> 
> did you not see the mobile improvements?


this ^ if these benchies are real then GM204 is almost twice as fast as GK204 its amazing! Imagine a lappy with close to 780ti performance


----------



## fleetfeather

That 980M SLI score is intense. Either maxwell is stupidly efficient, or those core clocks aren't sustainable during gaming. If it's the former, couldn't NV plant 2 of those chips on a PCIe card and have a single-slot card?


----------



## Spectre-

ARGGGHHH

Nvidia get rid of the 256 bit bus

i would switch teams


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkBlade6*
> 
> this ^ if these benchies are real then GM204 is almost twice as fast as GK204 its amazing! Imagine a lappy with close to 780ti performance


The clocks are significantly higher. Also that would be a 100W laptop GPU so there is no practical use unless you just want to game for 1 hour on battery, Wanna burn your legs or you just like to hurt your back since those weight a ton.

It's not technical triumph with all those downsides. Lower end is more important to be good.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crazycrave*
> 
> It will be interesting to see how much power it uses with that 1200 MHz clock speed..
> 
> but two dirt cheap($220) mined to death 7950's at stock clocks running on a 4 year old platform are still faster then this 980GTX overclock .. 28nm is tapped out unless AMD's 295X shows us more.
> 
> not overclocked 7950's Graphics Score 13112
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2679521


Two dirt-cheap used cards with little warranty remaining, amd drivers & lack of shadowplay, loud coolers, that run hot and take tons of power while running more noisily, can about match the 1x GTX 980 in a synthetic bench where scaling is nearly perfect, yes. In actual games support varies vastly as does performance, + all those other factors I listed before are pesky







.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smanci*
> 
> We need some power consumption and OC benches. 750Tis clock like there'd be no tomorrow and the power consumption is ridiculously low.
> What I'd definitely like to see is a GTX970/80 with a <=20cm PCB and a low-noise cooling solution.


If GM204 oc's like GM107.... it's going to be a slaughter. Most 750 Ti's hit 1400-1450 on air with a simple tweaked BIOS (tdp power limit raised) lashed on air w/out even having huge coolers, let alone water or voltage added.


----------



## Spectre-

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> If GM204 oc's like GM107.... it's going to be a slaughter. Most 750 Ti's hit 1400-1450 on air with a simple tweaked BIOS (tdp power limit raised) lashed on air w/out even having huge coolers, let alone water or voltage added.


has someone released something similar to Pt1. bios for nvidia


----------



## Gorea

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> The clocks are significantly higher. Also that would be a 100W laptop GPU so there is no practical use *unless you just want to game for 1 hour on battery, Wanna burn your legs or you just like to hearth your back since those weight a ton.*
> 
> It's not technical triumph with all those downsides. Lower end is more important to be good.


Some people use laptops as substitutes for desktops while traveling and just put laptops on a desk (while plugged in) in their hotel.

Much more convenient to carry a laptop in a small bag/suitcase than to carry around a big and heavy MATX case.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorea*
> 
> Some people use laptops as substitutes for desktops while traveling and just put laptops on a desk (while plugged in) in their hotel.
> 
> Much more convenient to carry a laptop in a small bag/suitcase than to carry around a big and heavy MATX case.


Sure there are. Still I'm not sure what good a portable is if it ain't that portable and last you a very short time. To all those with "gaming" laptops with outrageous amounts of processing power get real. Most of them aren't using it as desktop substitute. Sure it gives a lot of power which gives some status but isn't a laptop made to last longer on what you use it for most.

Not my thing though I'm somewhat excited for Maxwell if these numbers are real.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> Sure there are. Still I'm not sure what good a portable is if it ain't that portable and last you a very short time. To all those with "gaming" laptops with outrageous amounts of processing power get real. Most of them aren't using it as desktop substitute. Sure it gives a lot of power which gives some status but isn't a laptop made to last longer on what you use it for most.
> 
> Not my thing though I'm somewhat excited for Maxwell if these numbers are real.


Many many people game on a laptop when traveling or even as a pure desktop replacement. Heck, I game on my notebook on the sofa with a lapdesk sometimes while watching news.... The times I use a laptop not plugged in are very very rare.

Definitely excited at this point for Maxwell







.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Many many people game on a laptop when traveling or even as a pure desktop replacement. Heck, I game on my notebook on the sofa with a lapdesk sometimes while watching news.... The times I use a laptop not plugged in are very very rare.
> 
> Definitely excited at this point for Maxwell
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Well I do use it as main sometimes but pretty much half the usage is unplugged on uni.


----------



## Dry Bonez

ok guys,here me out and tell me what you all think. the gtx 780 was 3gb when it launched,then they released the 6gb version but that was unexpected so they came up with the "step up" program.....NOW rumor is or idk if its confirmed,of them releasing a 4gb and then a 8gb,but now its mentioned,rather than unexpected. So my question is,do you think for those who purchase the 980 4gb version,will be eligible to get the 8gb version? Again,this is all speculation,opinions and imagination.lol. anyway,my bold prediction is they will announce 4gb and 8gb but the 8gb at a later date and for those who purchase the 4gb wont be eligible to get the 8gb because they will say we knew about the 2 versions,unlike the 780 which was unexpected.


----------



## Menta

Are these benches real or valid or just rumores?


----------



## COMBO2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> Are these benches real or valid or just rumores?


At the moment, they should be taken as rumours. Can't really trust a source yet. We don't know where VC are getting their info from...


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *COMBO2*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> Are these benches real or valid or just rumores?
> 
> 
> 
> At the moment, they should be taken as rumours. Can't really trust a source yet. We don't know where VC are getting their info from...
Click to expand...

Well, the first screenshot they have posted at the end of the article is straight from Futuremark's Fire Strike database. Whether that submission was faked or not is another matter. But it does exist. The link to it has been provided in this thread before.

Here: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2701047


----------



## DarkBlade6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> The clocks are significantly higher. Also that would be a 100W laptop GPU so there is no practical use unless you just want to game for 1 hour on battery, Wanna burn your legs or you just like to hurt your back since those weight a ton.
> 
> It's not technical triumph with all those downsides. Lower end is more important to be good.


Ever heard of desktop replacement ?! some people like to carry powerful laptop because they travel alot or they carry it around ar their GF place or Dad/mom places etc , they just use it on a desk while its plugged in the wall not a couch on the battery lol. And did you even look at the mobile benchies ?! The GTX980M scores 9k+ in firestrike where as the GTX880M scores about 6K (ok its more like 50% improvement not 100% Ahah). Its a freaking awsome performance boost for high end laptop/ desktop replacement. Even the GTX970M is better than the 880M , its probably going to be used in the next gen slim gaming laptop ala Razer Blade 14 (currently use a 870M) or Aeorus X. But dont get me wrong , I know these are just ''leaked'' benchmark scores, Im just saying that it would be an amazing performance boost (at same or lower TDP) if true.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Well, the first screenshot they have posted at the end of the article is straight from Futuremark's Fire Strike database. Whether that submission was faked or not is another matter. But it does exist. The link to it has been provided in this thread before.
> 
> Here: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2701047


hmm interesting, can it be faked? Like renaming the GPU or something to make it appear as a GTX 980? I have no idea about that sort of things. Definitively looks great


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkBlade6*
> 
> Ever heard of desktop replacement ?! some people like to carry powerful laptop because they travel alot or they carry it around ar their GF place or Dad/mom places etc , they just use it on a desk while its plugged in the wall not a couch on the battery lol. And did you even look at the mobile benchies ?! The GTX980M scores 9k+ in firestrike where as the GTX880M scores about 6K (ok its more like 50% improvement not 100% Ahah). Its a freaking awsome performance boost for high end laptop/ desktop replacement. Even the GTX970M is better than the 880M , its probably going to be used in the next gen slim gaming laptop ala Razer Blade 14 (currently use a 870M) or Aeorus X. But dont get me wrong , I know these are just ''leaked'' benchmark scores, Im just saying that it would be an amazing performance boost (at same or lower TDP) if true.


More performance at same power consumption is always a good thing just saying that those gaming laptops are used to show of as a luxury product every time I see one running one at uni. But yeah there are uses for it.


----------



## GoldenTiger

My main question left is WHEN!!!!


----------



## tpi2007

I've been doing some math based on the rumours so far, what we know from GM107 (GTX 750 Ti and 750) and Maxwell's efficiency compared to Kepler, from what Nvidia said about the L2 cache not necessarily scaling with core count and reached the conclusion that it might very well be possible to make GM200 (Titan II) on 28nm.

If the GTX 980 has indeed 2560 cores and a 256-bit memory bus, it's probable it will have 4 MB of L2, with GM106 (GTX 960 Ti, 960) having 3 MB L2 and a 192-bit memory bus. GM200 will most probably have a 384-bit memory bus and thus won't need more than 4 MB of L2, thus saving die space and transistor count, which will probably be very high already.

Nvidia didn't provide a die shot of GM107 when it was released, but they did provide a diagram. Assuming that the proportions of the internal components are more or less right, I've reached the following:


GM107, 640 Cuda cores, 16 ROPs, 128-bit memory bus, 2 GB VRAM, 2 MB L2 cache, 1,87 B transistors, 148 mm2

Estimated:


GM106, 1280 Cuda cores, 24 ROPs, 192-bit memory bus, 3 GB VRAM, 3 MB L2 cache, 3,26 B transistors, 257,98 mm2
GM104, 2560 Cuda cores, 32 ROPs, 256-bit memory bus, 4 GB VRAM, 4 MB L2 cache, 5,92 B transistors, 468,92 mm2
GM200, 3200 Cuda cores, 48 ROPs, 384-bit memory bus, 6 GB VRAM, 4 MB L2 cache, 7,44 B transistors, 588,91 mm2
Edit: for GM200 I didn't take into consideration how many transistors and space the double precision capability might take, so it could be bigger (assuming this is more or less correct to start with, and also assuming they didn't do any other optimizations on GM200).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Well, the first screenshot they have posted at the end of the article is straight from Futuremark's Fire Strike database. Whether that submission was faked or not is another matter. But it does exist. The link to it has been provided in this thread before.
> 
> Here: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2701047
> 
> 
> 
> hmm interesting, can it be faked? Like renaming the GPU or something to make it appear as a GTX 980? I have no idea about that sort of things. Definitively looks great
Click to expand...

I don't know, but I got this answer earlier today in this thread, which should help to interpret the situation and take it with a grain of salt:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> I assume by your answer that they are easy to fake.
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't say easy, but very possible. For a while there was a 750ti in the top 5 of the HoF. There were a whole slew of obvious fakes along with it. That means supposedly validated subs. They were hacked obviously.
Click to expand...


----------



## zealord

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> I've been doing some math based on the rumours so far, what we know from GM107 (GTX 750 Ti and 750) and Maxwell's efficiency compared to Kepler, from what Nvidia said about the L2 cache not necessarily scaling with core count and reached the conclusion that it might very well be possible to make GM200 (Titan II) on 28nm.
> 
> If the GTX 980 has indeed 2560 cores and a 256-bit memory bus, it's probable it will have 4 MB of L2, with GM106 (GTX 960 Ti, 960) having 3 MB L2 and a 192-bit memory bus. GM200 will most probably have a 384-bit memory bus and thus won't need more than 4 MB of L2, thus saving die space and transistor count, which will probably be very high already.
> 
> Nvidia didn't provide a die shot of GM107 when it was released, but they did provide a diagram. Assuming that the proportions of the internal components are more or less right, I've reached the following:
> 
> 
> GM107, 640 Cuda cores, 16 ROPs, 128-bit memory bus, 2 GB VRAM, 2 MB L2 cache, 1,87 B transistors, 148 mm2
> 
> Estimated:
> 
> 
> GM106, 1280 Cuda cores, 24 ROPs, 192-bit memory bus, 3 GB VRAM, 3 MB L2 cache, 3,26 B transistors, 257,98 mm2
> GM104, 2560 Cuda cores, 32 ROPs, 256-bit memory bus, 4 GB VRAM, 4 MB L2 cache, 5,92 B transistors, 468,92 mm2
> GM200, 3200 Cuda cores, 48 ROPs, 384-bit memory bus, 6 GB VRAM, 4 MB L2 cache, 7,44 B transistors, 588,91 mm2
> Edit: for GM200 I didn't take into consideration how many transistors and space the double precision capability might take, so it could be bigger (assuming this is more or less correct to start with, and also assuming they didn't do any other optimizations on GM200).
> I don't know, but I got this answer earlier today in this thread, which should help to interpret the situation and take it with a grain of salt:






good and reasonable post. I agree with pretty much every prediction.


----------



## Menta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> My main question left is WHEN!!!!


amen to that


----------



## Ascii Aficionado

Am I missing something here ?

No 800 series, and it's apparently going to take a 980 to equal a 780 Ti (or be slightly better) instead of an 880 being equivalent (or slightly better)


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ascii Aficionado*
> 
> Am I missing something here ?
> 
> No 800 series, and it's apparently going to take a 980 to equal a 780 Ti (or be slightly better) instead of an 880 being equivalent (or slightly better)


http://www.overclock.net/t/1509989/vc-nvidia-to-skip-geforce-800-series-geforce-gtx-980-and-gtx-970-mid-september/0_30


----------



## tpi2007

The GTX 800 series is probably being skipped on the desktop for good reason: there are already 800M parts on the market, many of which are Kepler based (including the GTX 880M and GTX 870M).

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/notebook-gpus

From GTX 880M to 820M.

Thus, this situation is the same that led Nvidia to skip the GTX 300 series on the desktop.

In a nutshell, it's not hard to believe.


----------



## mcg75

People, please try not to stray too far from the topic.

And most importantly, don't insult one another. Keep it respectful.

Thanks.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> I've been doing some math based on the rumours so far, what we know from GM107 (GTX 750 Ti and 750) and Maxwell's efficiency compared to Kepler, from what Nvidia said about the L2 cache not necessarily scaling with core count and reached the conclusion that it might very well be possible to make GM200 (Titan II) on 28nm.
> 
> If the GTX 980 has indeed 2560 cores and a 256-bit memory bus, it's probable it will have 4 MB of L2, with GM106 (GTX 960 Ti, 960) having 3 MB L2 and a 192-bit memory bus. GM200 will most probably have a 384-bit memory bus and thus won't need more than 4 MB of L2, thus saving die space and transistor count, which will probably be very high already.
> 
> Nvidia didn't provide a die shot of GM107 when it was released, but they did provide a diagram. Assuming that the proportions of the internal components are more or less right, I've reached the following:
> 
> 
> GM107, 640 Cuda cores, 16 ROPs, 128-bit memory bus, 2 GB VRAM, 2 MB L2 cache, 1,87 B transistors, 148 mm2
> 
> Estimated:
> 
> 
> GM106, 1280 Cuda cores, 24 ROPs, 192-bit memory bus, 3 GB VRAM, 3 MB L2 cache, 3,26 B transistors, 257,98 mm2
> GM104, 2560 Cuda cores, 32 ROPs, 256-bit memory bus, 4 GB VRAM, 4 MB L2 cache, 5,92 B transistors, 468,92 mm2
> GM200, 3200 Cuda cores, 48 ROPs, 384-bit memory bus, 6 GB VRAM, 4 MB L2 cache, 7,44 B transistors, 588,91 mm2
> Edit: for GM200 I didn't take into consideration how many transistors and space the double precision capability might take, so it could be bigger (assuming this is more or less correct to start with, and also assuming they didn't do any other optimizations on GM200).
> I don't know, but I got this answer earlier today in this thread, which should help to interpret the situation and take it with a grain of salt:


Excellent post


----------



## shzzit

Code:



Code:


If its faster than 780 ti, then why would it be 499 dollars?  Why would they release a faster card for 30% cheaper price?  Somethings not making sense here.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shzzit*
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> If its faster than 780 ti, then why would it be 499 dollars?  Why would they release a faster card for 30% cheaper price?  Somethings not making sense here.


Slightly*
Because why would people even consider a new generation if there is no reason to do so?
They can either release a 980 with 30%+ more performance than previous generation or just make it cheaper.
Otherwise people will not consider buying a new product.


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shzzit*
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> If its faster than 780 ti, then why would it be 499 dollars?  Why would they release a faster card for 30% cheaper price?  Somethings not making sense here.


Price isn't always an indicator of speed







And let's wait for its release. Nvidia will surely modify price structure of their GPUs incuding 780s


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shzzit*
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> If its faster than 780 ti, then why would it be 499 dollars?  Why would they release a faster card for 30% cheaper price?  Somethings not making sense here.


780 Ti is a big expensive chip. Gtx 980 will be a cheaper chip On the level of the 770


----------



## kingduqc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shzzit*
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> If its faster than 780 ti, then why would it be 499 dollars?  Why would they release a faster card for 30% cheaper price?  Somethings not making sense here.


With that logic we would be paying 2 0000000$ per gpu. Its quite simple.. tech goes faster for the same price or as fast for lower price.


----------



## shzzit

Ok cool, thanks for all the responses above.


----------



## mboner1

Are people seriously kidding themselves into thinking Nvidia will price this competitively? Are people seriously expecting 30% better than 780ti performance for $499? Lol. Why would they do that when people have proven they will pay $1000 + for top of the line nvidia gpu's?? Their top end cards will now be $799 minimum. Mark my words.


----------



## Redeemer

Don't GPU manufacturers charge on the basis of performance...So how can the 980 be cheaper than the 780TI? I get that the 980 will be cheaper to produce over a full-blown GK110, but that means higher margins why would they want pass on savings on to us??


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> Are people seriously kidding themselves into thinking Nvidia will price this competitively? Are people seriously expecting 30% better than 780ti performance for $499? Lol. Why would they do that when people have proven they will pay $1000 + for top of the line nvidia gpu's?? Their top end cards will now be $799 minimum. Mark my words.


Bookmarking this post for when the GTX 980 releases at 499-599.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> Are people seriously kidding themselves into thinking Nvidia will price this competitively? Are people seriously expecting 30% better than 780ti performance for $499? Lol. Why would they do that when people have proven they will pay $1000 + for top of the line nvidia gpu's?? Their top end cards will now be $799 minimum. Mark my words.


You do realize that there were some GTX 580's still selling for more $$$ than the 680 AFTER the 680 was launched right? New tech is often cheaper to manufacture which also helps out. I would have to say you are very wrong on many different levels and soon will see it for yourself.


----------



## MonarchX

So it is actually faster than GTX 780 Ti when using the same clocks or about the same? Benches show that its on the level of GTX 780 Ti or am I missing something?


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> Are people seriously kidding themselves into thinking Nvidia will price this competitively? Are people seriously expecting 30% better than 780ti performance for $499? Lol. Why would they do that when people have proven they will pay $1000 + for top of the line nvidia gpu's?? Their top end cards will now be $799 minimum. Mark my words.


Calling a 499-529 price on newegg day 1


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MapRef41N93W*
> 
> Bookmarking this post for when the GTX 980 releases at 499-599.


I look forward to it. If they come out at that price I will grab one as well.

Don't be afraid to come back and admit you're wrong when it releases for $799 tho. Same to everyone else.

As all the nvidia fans say when it suits them.. "Why shouldn't nvidia be able to charge a premium for a product that they release that beats the competition to the punch, if you want to be a early adopter it costs a premium amount of money".. Now you all make claims that nvidia will price this competitively?

I'm not bashing Nvidia, you people have shown you are willing to pay over the top prices for a green logo so why wouldn't they charge what they know some people will pay? lol. It's business as all the nvidia fans love to remind anyone and everyone, $799 is the flagship price for nvidia cards now and you have yourselves to thank.


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> I look forward to it. If they come out at that price I will grab one as well.
> 
> Don't be afraid to come back and admit you're wrong when it releases for $799 tho. Same to everyone else.
> 
> As all the nvidia fans say when it suits them.. "Why shouldn't nvidia be able to charge a premium for a product that they release that beats the competition to the punch, if you want to be a early adopter it costs a premium amount of money".. Now you all make claims that nvidia will price this competitively?
> 
> I'm not bashing Nvidia, you people have shown you are willing to pay over the top prices for a green logo so why wouldn't they charge what they know some people will pay? lol. It's business as all the nvidia fans love to remind anyone and everyone, $799 is the flagship price for nvidia cards now and you have yourselves to thank.


You clearly don't understand the circumstances that surrounded the 700/Titan series of cards. GK110 was never intended to be released as GeForce card. The Titan was an experiment for NVIDIA that was extremely successful (releasing a cut down Quadro and a significant price drop without custom driver support and branding it a gaming card). The reason the 780 was released at 650$ was due to the fact that it was stock for stock only a tad bit slower than a $1000 Titan, and NVIDIA did not want to piss off those who purchased a Titan by releasing an equal gaming card at half the price.

History has shown that NVIDIA releases it's flagship gaming card at either 499.99 or 599.99. GM204 is not a cutdown Quadro thus it will be priced at the normal GeForce flagship price.

Come 2015 when GM200 releases, if NVIDIA decides to cut it down and do a new Titan (or whatever they want to call it), you may see the same cycle of pricing as we saw with GK110.


----------



## Ghoxt

Did I miss something or is everyone crazy?

Quote: VC


> Before you ask, no, we do not have any final specifications as of yet. Sure, we have our predictions, but that's something you can find in our previous posts. Today we are only looking at synthetic performance.


Nowhere in this craftily worded source is anything based on fact. Yet everyone is skipping that part...Synthetic Benchmarks based on what...pure rumor. Yes I did censor myself there









I'm not taking angst with the article. It's what they do nowadays to get clicks, it's the Internet. I get it. It's the responses here that are taking all this as fact that's mind boggling.


----------



## The Source

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Calling a 499-529 price on newegg day 1


550-600 with the 780 and 970 being priced equally at around 450 and it will stay there for a few months.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spectre-*
> 
> ARGGGHHH
> 
> Nvidia get rid of the 256 bit bus
> 
> i would switch teams


Seriously?

That's the only thing stopping you?

Protip: GTX 280 had 512-bit bus.


----------



## kirk007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> Are people seriously kidding themselves into thinking Nvidia will price this competitively? Are people seriously expecting 30% better than 780ti performance for $499?


I don't think too many is expecting it to be 30% faster than 780Ti, if the specs flying around are correct it's probably quite close clock for clock. Perhaps a little slower or little faster... I'm guessing that it will do comparatively better at 1080p and fading a bit at higher res+AA with that 256bit mem bus.


----------



## mcg75

Cleaned.

No more personal comments please. If we have to clean this thread for a 3rd time, thread bans and warnings are going to be handed out.


----------



## XxOsurfer3xX

I cannot wait for 980 I will get rid of this SLI so fast heads will spin... Although I may wait for AMD's answer.


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MapRef41N93W*
> 
> You clearly don't understand the circumstances that surrounded the 700/Titan series of cards. GK110 was never intended to be released as GeForce card. The Titan was an experiment for NVIDIA that was extremely successful (releasing a cut down Quadro and a significant price drop without custom driver support and branding it a gaming card). The reason the 780 was released at 650$ was due to the fact that it was stock for stock only a tad bit slower than a $1000 Titan, and NVIDIA did not want to piss off those who purchased a Titan by releasing an equal gaming card at half the price.


I understand the reasoning for the justification of the prices, but by the same reasoning you could argue that the 980 should be $799 so that the 780ti users don't feel ripped off, no?


----------



## AMW1011

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XxOsurfer3xX*
> 
> I cannot wait for 980 I will get rid of this SLI so fast heads will spin... Although I may wait for AMD's answer.


Why? There's almost no chance of the GTX 980 being faster than 680 sli.


----------



## Menta

i really don't see it as a rip off the 780 ti owners have and had their money worth but time moves on!

the more you invest the more money you loose, its all ways been my opinion, those who are all ways seeking the latest and greatest should know this by now


----------



## XxOsurfer3xX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMW1011*
> 
> Why? There's almost no chance of the GTX 980 being faster than 680 sli.


I hate having to wait for proper SLI profiles on launch, also VRAM, I'm on 1440p monitor and in several games I cannot use hi-res textures and AA...


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> I understand the reasoning for the justification of the prices, but by the same reasoning you could argue that the 980 should be $799 so that the 780ti users don't feel ripped off, no?


i know i wouldnt feel ripped off, ive enjoyed 780ti performance for almost a year now, sure i could have done it cheaper with a 290x but i play borderlands2 a LOT and i love the physx in that game.

Personally i hope the 980 releases at 499/599 so other people can enjoy the performance as well, along with dropping the prices of the 780ti used market to $400 or so, i want to run a tri/quad sli set up for borderlands the pre sequel @ 4k.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XxOsurfer3xX*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *AMW1011*
> 
> Why? There's almost no chance of the GTX 980 being faster than 680 sli.
> 
> 
> 
> I hate having to wait for proper SLI profiles on launch, also VRAM, I'm on 1440p monitor and in several games I cannot use hi-res textures and AA...
Click to expand...

TITAN can pretty much run anything on single 1440p. Like my setup... I went from GTX680 SLI to TITAN.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> TITAN can pretty much run anything on single 1440p. Like my setup... I went from GTX680 SLI to TITAN.


TITAN is still a strong card, i remember getting mine up and running for the first time, first thing i did was load up crysis 3 @ 1440p maxxed settings, 40-45 fps on it blew me away, compared to the 7970 set up i had that could barely manage 30 fps on it.


----------



## XxOsurfer3xX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> TITAN can pretty much run anything on single 1440p. Like my setup... I went from GTX680 SLI to TITAN.


Yes, that was a big mistake on my part. Had the choice to spend 100 € more and get a TITAN, but ended up going for bang for buck... I've regretted it a lot...


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> i know i wouldnt feel ripped off, ive enjoyed 780ti performance for almost a year now, sure i could have done it cheaper with a 290x but i play borderlands2 a LOT and i love the physx in that game.
> 
> Personally i hope the 980 releases at 499/599 so other people can enjoy the performance as well, along with dropping the prices of the 780ti used market to $400 or so, i want to run a tri/quad sli set up for borderlands the pre sequel @ 4k.


I also hope they release at that price, I really do, It would be good having both camps competing at the same price point again so we have choices.

I just can't see the 980 having both a 30% increase and a $499 price tag. It would be a no brainer to pick one up if it were true. Especially with the ability for g-sync, but again, I think that only drives the potential price of the 980 up.


----------



## Redeemer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> So it is actually faster than GTX 780 Ti when using the same clocks or about the same? Benches show that its on the level of GTX 780 Ti or am I missing something?


looks to be a little slower than the 780TI at same clocks, however this is a GK104 replacement?


----------



## emsj86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BackwoodsNC*
> 
> http://videocardz.com/52166/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-gtx-970-gtx-980m-gtx-970m-3dmark-performance
> 
> Here we go! Love new GPUs


So I have the gtx 780 sc acx two questions one is if I watercool and oc can I match the gtx 989 or 780ti. I heard it's 10% faster than the 780ti that is the 980. Also should I get a 980 and sell my 780 sc or is the gain not huge fps wise I don't care about bench marks I like to see real world fps increase in games like bf4


----------



## szeged

a watercooled and overclocked 780 can beat the performance of a 780ti, depends on how good your card is though.


----------



## keikei

So based on these rumors,

980=new/replacement 780ti
980ti (when announced)=what everyone really wants. Probably 3 months or so down the line, or whenever amd decides to show their new stuff. Speculation is fun.

Either way when this card drops, every card below it will price drop as well. Nvidia maybe looking at a very profitable holiday season.


----------



## mcg75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emsj86*
> 
> So I have the gtx 780 sc acx two questions one is if I watercool and oc can I match the gtx 989 or 780ti. I heard it's 10% faster than the 780ti that is the 980. Also should I get a 980 and sell my 780 sc or is the gain not huge fps wise I don't care about bench marks I like to see real world fps increase in games like bf4


Nobody has the information you need to safely make that decision at this point as everything is just rumors.

I can see the 980 being faster than the 780 Ti for sure. But as others pointed out, if it is what price point will it launch at.

I'm personally thinking $549 which is the slot the 780 now occupies.


----------



## aman2051

umm no it cant match with gtx 989 or780ti..it is not faster at all how can it b faster gtx 989 anf 780ti is update of gtx 989 and 780ti..if you want faster one you should sell taht and get gtx 980 .


----------



## Imglidinhere

Regardless, the GTX 980 is just as fast as I predicted. Makes me wonder if AMD can even keep up at this point.

Furthermore, the 980M/970M are immensely faster than I was expecting. O.O


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emsj86*
> 
> So I have the gtx 780 sc acx two questions one is if I watercool and oc can I match the gtx 989 or 780ti. I heard it's 10% faster than the 780ti that is the 980. Also should I get a 980 and sell my 780 sc or is the gain not huge fps wise I don't care about bench marks I like to see real world fps increase in games like bf4


The big question right now is how well will these new cards overclock. If it's anything like the 750 Ti they're going to be very tough to beat. I still believe 1400 boost clock will be had on the reference cooler


----------



## zealord

I am actually more looking forward to the overclockability of the 980. That also depends on how far Nvidia has already pushed the core and boost clock of the 980. I bet it is quite high and those rumoured 1127 or more are very realistic for the reference design. Classified/Gaming/Windforce etc. are probably 1250+ and more out of the box


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> The big question right now is how well will these new cards overclock. If it's anything like the 750 Ti they're going to be very tough to beat. I still believe 1400 boost clock will be had on the reference cooler


this. i dont care at all how the card performs at stock. if reference model cards can hit 1400mhz with locked voltage then sign me up for 4 of them..classified or lightning models that is.


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> Nobody has the information you need to safely make that decision at this point as everything is just rumors.
> 
> I can see the 980 being faster than the 780 Ti for sure. But as others pointed out, if it is what price point will it launch at.
> 
> I'm personally thinking $549 which is the slot the 780 now occupies.


i fully expect this cycle to repeat the 680/titan launch pattern.

ill probably hold out on the 980s


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> this. i dont care at all how the card performs at stock. if reference model cards can hit 1400mhz with locked voltage then sign me up for 4 of them..classified or lightning models that is.


Can you imagine these cards with the TFV cooler and 1.3v? 1500 core on air


----------



## 12Cores

Nice clocks if they are real, this will sell like hot cakes for $499 and will probably force Amd to drop the 290/290x down a few dollars. The 290 is still the best high card in my opinion, just pick up two 290's and a i7-4790k and that should hold you over for a few years at 1440p.


----------



## Xinoxide

Has to be complete trollsauce.

r9 295x2 is more like... 14K to 17K depending on CPU and OC's


----------



## zealord

ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ we need more rumour news ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ

The anticipation is killing me


----------



## ryanrenolds08

Even if this is true, Titan and Ti owners have no reason to spend their money. I was looking forward to an upgrade this year....the wait until next year starts.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ryanrenolds08*
> 
> Even if this is true, Titan and Ti owners have no reason to spend their money. I was looking forward to an upgrade this year....the wait until next year starts.


So was I, and i'm starting to think that upgrade should be one of these $999 295x2 deals... Not only would it put $500 back into the bank, it would drastically reduce my system's max TDP compared to 3x titans running @ 1300mhz / 7.5ghz+

The only question would be, how do you hook 3x monitors to a 295x2, if the monitors don't have Display ports.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Ouch dude
> 
> 
> 
> yep, its getting pulled out of the rig tonight and sent back tomorrow lol, not having any of that. not wasting $1050 on a garbage can cpu.
Click to expand...

Well, 8 cores to overclock would be harder and more voltage + heat. 2 extras than 3930k, 4930k. Can't really be the same clock and power use.


----------



## Menta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ we need more rumour news ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
> 
> The anticipation is killing me


join the club, when i wake up the first thing i do is check rumorville


----------



## 12Cores

If for some reason you are still running a GTX 580/HD6970 this should be a nice upgrade for <$500, paired with a i7-47XX. These giant 28nm chips just flat out maul games at 1080p, we need some new game engines to challenge these things and the new non-next gen consoles are not helping.


----------



## CalinTM

Was as i expected, a little faster than 780 Ti. For me is great, no matter how fast than 780 Ti. But faster, even with 5% i was happy.

Also the big question now is how well 980 will overclock ? It will be a monster like 750 Ti, damn i hope









I expect models like DirectCU II and Lightning to have out of he box, 1250Mhz. Or more.


----------



## SoloCamo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imglidinhere*
> 
> Regardless, the GTX 980 is just as fast as I predicted. *Makes me wonder if AMD can even keep up at this point.*


Not sure why you say that? 290 / 290x isn't exactly far behind a 780ti by that much, 290 will still be the best performance per dollar IMO.

I don't see a 390/390x (or w/e they decide to call them) having a hard time matching these.


----------



## skupples

eh, we are more likely to see AMD release the revised cores seen in the 295x2 as a singular "295x" model, next.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> eh, we are more likely to see AMD release the revised cores seen in the 295x2 as a singular "295x" model, next.


wot? You mean Tonga? I don't see them releasing anything until they get the 300 series out with a node shrink. They will have to cut prices to stay competitive. No GHz+ version this time since their reference blower can't even cool stock hawaii. Besides like Solo said, it's not like the 780ti is in a league of its own. The 290X very close to it's performance so it can still remain a viable option if it's priced right. The main reason people will be hesitant to choose it over these 980/970 cards (if these benches are real) is power consumption.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> wot? You mean Tonga? I don't see them releasing anything until they get the 300 series out with a node shrink. They will have to cut prices to stay competitive. No GHz+ version this time since their reference blower can't even cool stock hawaii. Besides like Solo said, it's not like the 780ti is in a league of its own. The 290X very close to it's performance so it can still remain a viable option if it's priced right. The main reason people will be hesitant to choose it over these 980/970 cards (if these benches are real) is power consumption.


Isn't Tonga the low powered variant being used in the 285? I thought the 295x2 core was called Vesuvius.


----------



## doomlord52

So that puts a 970 at around 2.5x the speed of my 570.... yea, it's time to upgrade. Now, what will the price difference of the 970 and 980 be.


----------



## Alatar

If I had to guess the next AMD launch (after the R9 285X which is just full tonga) would be a 295X with a 100MHz core clock bump just to try and take some press away from the GM204 cards.

AMD is probably out of tricks until Fiji (or whatever it's called) comes out. Maybe along with GM200.


----------



## SoloCamo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> No GHz+ version this time since their reference blower can't even cool stock hawaii.


I honestly expect them to, like a 290xt (yes, bring back the old x800 naming







) or XT PE, GHZ edition, whatever they want to do. The stock cooler can certainly do it, 70% fan speed has zero problem with me at 1100 core and 1350 mem while keeping gpu temps under 80*c on the stock cooler.

Then again, a 230mm fan blowing on the thing probably helps, too.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> If I had to guess the next AMD launch (after the R9 285X which is just full tonga) *would be a 295X with a 100MHz core clock bump* just to try and take some press away from the GM204 cards.
> 
> AMD is probably out of tricks until Fiji (or whatever it's called) comes out. Maybe along with GM200.


Basically this. 100mhz is enough of a jump on the hawaii core to make it look a lot more competitive - also just bump the memory to 1350 from 1250 and there you go, almost any 290x can do that with ease on stock volts.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> I honestly expect them to, like a 290xt (yes, bring back the old x800 naming
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) or XT PE, GHZ edition, whatever they want to do. The stock cooler can certainly do it, 70% fan speed has zero problem with me at 1100 core and 1350 mem while keeping gpu temps under 80*c on the stock cooler.
> 
> Then again, a 230mm fan blowing on the thing probably helps, too.
> Basically this. 100mhz is enough of a jump on the hawaii core to make it look a lot more competitive - also just bump the memory to 1350 from 1250 and there you go, almost any 290x can do that with ease on stock volts.


1100Mhz 290X won't produce miracles. http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/his_radeon_r9_290x_hybrid_iceq_review,1.html At those clocks it's just slightly faster than a stock 780 ti so maybe (very skeptical) it can match the 980. But that power consumption though


----------



## SoloCamo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> 1100Mhz 290X won't produce miracles. http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/his_radeon_r9_290x_hybrid_iceq_review,1.html At those clocks it's just slightly faster than a stock 780 ti so maybe (very skeptical) it can match the 980. But that power consumption though


But that's all it needs to do, match it/slightly surpass it and be the cheaper option. Anyways, not to make this about AMD here, I look forward to seeing what these 980's truly bring to the table. As long as I'm not beaten by a 970 I'm happy with the 290x I have for now.


----------



## Imglidinhere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> Not sure why you say that? 290 / 290x isn't exactly far behind a 780ti by that much, 290 will still be the best performance per dollar IMO.
> 
> I don't see a 390/390x (or w/e they decide to call them) having a hard time matching these.


If you see how the GTX 980 is the successor to the GTX 680, and is in the same ballpark as the 680 was to Kepler ("Midrange" designation), or I.E. Big bad Maxwell die hasn't surfaced yet, I think my comment is well enough in order by this point.

The GTX 980 is a "midrange" card for the Maxwell line. We've yet to see what lies ahead. The GTX 980 is already faster than the R9 290X and the chip is supposedly going to be sold for $500...and draws less power...so I don't see a reason to believe that AMD is well behind where it should be right now.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> But that's all it needs to do, match it/slightly surpass it and be the cheaper option. Anyways, not to make this about AMD here, I look forward to seeing what these 980's truly bring to the table. As long as I'm not beaten by a 970 I'm happy with the 290x I have for now.


i hear ya on that. I'm out of the GPU market for awhile so i'm just hoping this thing maintains relevance for abit longer. Kinda sad that AMD isn't throwing out crazy driver improvements like they did for the tahiti though, but i guess they are pretty familiar with GCN now.


----------



## flippin_waffles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> Are people seriously kidding themselves into thinking Nvidia will price this competitively? Are people seriously expecting 30% better than 780ti performance for $499? Lol. Why would they do that when people have proven they will pay $1000 + for top of the line nvidia gpu's?? Their top end cards will now be $799 minimum. Mark my words.


My guess is they'll be cheaper because they have to be, and these numbers are likely true.


----------



## skupples

someone please convince me to sell my Titans.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> someone please convince me to sell my Titans.


sell your titans, ill buy all 3 @ $450 each


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> The big question right now is how well will these new cards overclock. If it's anything like the 750 Ti they're going to be very tough to beat. I still believe 1400 boost clock will be had on the reference cooler


I hope the 970 overclocks really well, that would be great, if it was to repeat what other cards have done, like the 780 overclocked pushing past the Titan or being one of the best cards at overclocking.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> sell your titans, ill buy all 3 @ $450 each


I just put a tester up on Ebay for $650, with back plate, waterblock, fuji extreme pads, and CLU... If it sells, i'll list a second one, and probably grab a 295x2, just so i can trollolololol with a massive case & one GPU.


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> I just put a tester up on Ebay for $650, with back plate, waterblock, fuji extreme pads, and CLU... If it sells, i'll list a second one, and probably grab a 295x2, just so i can trollolololol with a massive case & one GPU.


remember, the $65 ebay fee


----------



## tkenietz

Well, if true I was right! Lol

Idk why anyone would expect 30%+ faster. Would you then expect the 970 to have 780ti performance and the 960 to have 780 performance sub $250? Would be cool but pretty naive.

Everything just moving down a price point. Will prob see ti/titan variant within 6mo that will be 15-20% faster, possibly 20nm, prob $800-1000, at least hopefully similar to vanilla titan overclockability.

I predict similar for AMD. 295x2 price drop is just the beginning. All cards move down a price point, top spot for AMD sits empty for a while like last time, then they hit the market with the usual AMD marketing "new bestest most fasterest gpu in the universe" -a little slower than 980, for less money. Lol


----------



## r0ach

I'd buy that for a dollar


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> I just put a tester up on Ebay for $650, with back plate, waterblock, fuji extreme pads, and CLU... If it sells, i'll list a second one, and probably grab a 295x2, just so i can trollolololol with a massive case & one GPU.


lol









im using one 780ti atm in the sth10 and man it looks hilarious.


----------



## emsj86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> I hope the 970 overclocks really well, that would be great, if it was to repeat what other cards have done, like the 780 overclocked pushing past the Titan or being one of the best cards at overclocking.


Is there a video someone can point me to so I can overclock my 780 sc acx. At the moment with no fan curve change it never reaches 58 In bf4. I wanna watercool it tha. Overclock it I know every card is different but what is to be expected fps in game wise with oc it. Would like to do this so I don't need to upgrade. 150 waterblock with fittings sounds nicer than 600 dollars air cooked 980


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MunneY*
> 
> remember, the $65 ebay fee


Not many other options. Ebay Fee only ticks if it sells, and I have access to free overnight shipping, so that cushions that blow. I'm debating selling all three, so I could in theory list a DIFFERENT one on the market place.


----------



## tkenietz

Also, with $1k 295x2, it would be market suicide to release 980 at more than $700. At <$600 I don't think the 295x2 would interfere too much, >$600 I think sales would still be strong, but the 295x2 would def be cutting into sales for people considering SLI.

When you also factor in the likelihood of people upgrading with the deals that have been available, $600 isn't looking great. Used market has been on fire grabbing a lot of people who planned on upgrading. Imo if they want it to sell well, $500ish is the only place it could be.


----------



## CalinTM

How faster is 680 vs 580 ? And how much faster is 980 vs 680 ?

Cau u please educate me ?







Wanna make a comparison...


----------



## PontiacGTX

10-15% seems logical to the 28nm process but under 20nm the increase from 980 GTX/Ti to a midrange GM210 a 980GTX will be the midrange of the next series(performance wise) or lower

Story from nvidia cycle is the same the midrange for 500usd like if the elder gen was expensive and with some excuse could increase the price of GM210 or Pascal 50-100more


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> So that puts a 970 at around 2.5x the speed of my 570.... yea, it's time to upgrade. Now, what will the price difference of the 970 and 980 be.


I posted this in a thread awhile back, although I'm kinda uncertain about what the 980 could be potentially priced at.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> According to TechPowerUp! and bit-tech, the launch prices were:
> For the GTX 780 $650 in the US and £550 in the UK.
> And for the GTX 770 $399 in the US and £329 in the UK.
> 
> For the previous gen cards the 670 was $400 in the US and £329 in the UK.
> The 680 was $499 in the US and £429 in the UK.
> 
> From Overclockers and Scan, I've seen 780s retailing for about £320+ and 770s for £220+
> I'm unsure about US prices though.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Sources
> 
> 
> 
> *Stores*
> 
> *Scan*
> http://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/all/gpu-nvidia/geforce-gtx-770-%281536-cores%29/geforce-gtx-780-pci-e
> *
> Overclockers*
> GTX 770: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?catid=1914&groupid=701&sortby=priceAsc&subid=1750
> GTX 780: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/productlist.php?catid=1914&groupid=701&sortby=priceAsc&subid=1341
> 
> *Reviews:*
> http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2013/05/23/geforce-gtx-780-review/1
> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_780/
> 
> http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2013/05/31/nvidia-geforce-gtx-770-2gb-review/1
> http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2013/05/31/nvidia-geforce-gtx-770-2gb-review/1
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_680/
> http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2012/03/22/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-2gb-review/1
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_670/
> http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2012/05/10/nvidia-geforce-gtx-670-2gb-review/1


With the 670 and 770 launching at similar price points I anticipate a similar outcome for the 970, hopefully that will be the case!
I don't know what to say about the 680 and 780 as the 780's launch price was quite a bit more than the 680's launch price.


----------



## i7monkey

Heh I got another hypothetical question









How much faster is a 20nm/16nm big die GM200/210 going to be than the 780Ti? 60-70%? More? Less?

Random guesses would be nice


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Heh I got another hypothetical question
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much faster is a 20nm/16nm big die GM200/210 going to be than the 780Ti? 60-70%? More? Less?
> 
> Random guesses would be nice


We won't be seeing 16NM process until Pascal, as to how much faster a 20nm Maxwell product could be? Seems like a good question for TPI's maths. cores tend to get less powerful as they shrink, but they cram more of them in, which provides the performance increase.


----------



## PontiacGTX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Heh I got another hypothetical question
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much faster is a 20nm/16nm big die GM200/210 going to be than the 780Ti? 60-70%? More? Less?
> 
> Random guesses would be nice


like going from a 580GTX to a 780GTX if not better


----------



## tkenietz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> How faster is 680 vs 580 ? And how much faster is 980 vs 680 ?
> 
> Cau u please educate me ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wanna make a comparison...


If this article is true, 980 would be faster than 680 by roughly 50-60%

Don't know much about 580 but I would guess 680 was around 30% faster. Also going from 40nm to 28nm


----------



## Paladin Goo

If the 980s are legit that powerful and legit only around the $500 mark...thats my next purchase. Like, immediately when they are available.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raven Dizzle*
> 
> If the 980s are legit that powerful and legit only around the $500 mark...thats my next purchase. Like, immediately when they are available.


Hardly a "deal' considering a 980 is going to be insignificant performance difference in any real world game compared to an r9 290 which have been selling for $399ish.....

If you change the meaning of deal to be - less of a ripoff than recent Nvidia cards, then sure.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raven Dizzle*
> 
> If the 980s are legit that powerful and legit only around the $500 mark...thats my next purchase. Like, immediately when they are available.


im hoping it will be like the GTX680s where a Gtx690 came out a month after release, i so hope they make a Gtx990!!!, If Nvidia wasnt so greedy with the Titan-Z and charged $1800-$200 i would of bought it, but $3300 was flat out ignorant!


----------



## Cakewalk_S

I might have to pickup a new maxwell card instead of a new tablet... I'm waiting to see f this new nexus 8 is going to be $400... If it is I think a new gpu is in store for me. Maxwell with the aio cooler mod will create some incredible temps and overclocking possibilities


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Hardly a "deal' considering a 980 is going to be insignificant performance difference in any real world game compared to an r9 290 which have been selling for $399ish.....
> 
> If you change the meaning of deal to be - less of a ripoff than recent Nvidia cards, then sure.


LOL, the 980 already is showing itself to be notably stronger performance wise. And being Maxwell, it will have shadowplay, far lower power use which means lower heat and noise instead of the volcano vacuum known as the R9 290 ref, better multi-card profile support consistently, and to top it all off, extras like PhysX which rocks in borderlands, batman, and other games that do make use of it.


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> LOL, the 980 already is showing itself to be notably stronger performance wise. And being Maxwell, it will have shadowplay, far lower power use which means lower heat and noise instead of the volcano vacuum known as the R9 290 ref, better multi-card profile support consistently, and to top it all off, extras like PhysX which rocks in borderlands, batman, and other games that do make use of it.


Because if you want to buy a 290 you will buy a ref cooler one right?


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Hardly a "deal' considering a 980 is going to be insignificant performance difference in any real world game compared to an r9 290 which have been selling for $399ish.....
> 
> If you change the meaning of deal to be - less of a ripoff than recent Nvidia cards, then sure.


I mean, i'm not thrilled with what it looks like Nvidia will be delivering, but how can you say these things in good faith? 780 is already = to a 290, and yet you expect 980 to only compete with 290?


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Because if you want to buy a 290 you will buy a ref cooler one right?


If you want to get it for the lower price people keep touting of $250 or so, you have to generally get a mining-worn card with the ref cooler







used without a warranty in most cases from a random ebay seller. At $400 which is what r9 290's normally go for, why on Earth would anyone buy an r9 290 over a gtx 970 considering the latter should be faster, run way quieter, cooler, have better oc'ability being Maxwell presumably, better drivers & profile support for 2-3 gpu configurations, PhysX, and shadowplay?


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> If you want to get it for the lower price people keep touting of $250 or so, you have to generally get a mining-worn card with the ref cooler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> used without a warranty in most cases from a random ebay seller. At $400 which is what r9 290's normally go for, why on Earth would anyone buy an r9 290 over a gtx 970 considering the latter should be faster, run way quieter, cooler, have better oc'ability being Maxwell presumably, better drivers & profile support for 2-3 gpu configurations, PhysX, and shadowplay?


With your point whats the point to even get an amd gpu right?


----------



## skupples

290 doesn't have profile support for 2-3 GPU configs? There goes my plans to grab a 295x2... listed 2 of 3 titans on ebay now. either way, i'm selling these bad boys, the money will go in the bank until I decide what to do. I can handle gaming on one out of 3 monitors, for now.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> With your point whats the point to even get an amd gpu right?


what else would you expect?

This is how AMD and NV dance... i'm convinced they have started colluding again, tbh.


----------



## TheBlindDeafMute

Can't wait to see guru 3d benchmarks


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Hardly a "deal' considering a 980 is going to be insignificant performance difference in any real world game compared to an r9 290 which have been selling for $399ish.....
> 
> If you change the meaning of deal to be - less of a ripoff than recent Nvidia cards, then sure.


25-35% is insignificant? The 780ti is already 10-15% better than a 290.

Not to mention going aftermarket means you are limited to custom watercooling in tri/quad setups (or you will seriously overheat your CPU especially a 5960x). NVIDIA's good ref cooler makes quad air cooling a legit possibility.


----------



## rdr09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MapRef41N93W*
> 
> 25-35% is insignificant? The 780ti is already 10-15% better than a 290.
> 
> Not to mention going aftermarket means you are limited to custom watercooling in tri/quad setups (or you will seriously overheat your CPU especially a 5960x). NVIDIA's good ref cooler makes quad air cooling a legit possibility.


i think you missed it . . .



look at the clocks.


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdr09*
> 
> i think you missed it . . .
> 
> 
> 
> look at the clocks.


Those numbers are fake (the GTX 980 scores).


----------



## rdr09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MapRef41N93W*
> 
> Those numbers are fake (the GTX 980 scores).


i thought you're one of the gullible.

see that 290 in that chart?

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/3983122?


----------



## rdr09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdr09*
> 
> i thought you're one of the gullible.
> 
> see that 290 in that chart?
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/3983122?


now, before anyone flames me . . . you should thank me instead. this 980 i think will be faster than the Ti. Sorry, but i believe these numbers are fudged.


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdr09*
> 
> i thought you're one of the gullible.
> 
> see that 290 in that chart?
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/3983122?


I have no idea what you're going on about. It's pretty obvious this chart is fake.

Here's my firestrike with 2 290xs http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2062592


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdr09*
> 
> now, before anyone flames me . . . you should thank me instead. this 980 i think will be faster than the Ti. Sorry, but i believe these numbers are fudged.


right, the question is how easy is it to fudge this http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2701047 and the many others, from similar dates, on Futuremark leaderboards. Also, how long to fudged submissions stay up on the leaderboards before they get pulled. You would think something like this would have gotten back to Nvidia by now, and if its displaying something that is false, they would be clawing to get it taken down ASAP.

So, the question is... How hard is it to fake a submission to this level? It actually shows 4GB of memory, and a driver that isn't in consumer hands yet.


----------



## rdr09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MapRef41N93W*
> 
> I have no idea what you're going on about. It's pretty obvious this chart is fake.
> 
> Here's my firestrike with 2 290xs http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2062592


they can't show the true potential of these cards. what's gonna happen with the cards that are in the market right now (nvidia)?


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdr09*
> 
> they can't show the true potential of these cards. what's gonna happen with the cards that are in the market right now (nvidia)?


assuming "they" (nvidia) issued the benchmarks. More likely that one of their testers "hit the wrong button".


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> 290 doesn't have profile support for 2-3 GPU configs? There goes my plans to grab a 295x2... listed 2 of 3 titans on ebay now. either way, i'm selling these bad boys, the money will go in the bank until I decide what to do. I can handle gaming on one out of 3 monitors, for now.
> what else would you expect?
> 
> This is how AMD and NV dance... i'm convinced they have started colluding again, tbh.


No one said it "doesn't have", I said it isn't as good typically in terms of how quickly they come out for many titles or how well they are supported







.









For me to buy an AMD card it ahs to be significantly faster and cheaper due to the noise/heat issues, worse drivers, and lack of shadowplay + PhysX which as someone who posts pvp videos and other gameplay such as raid training runs for my guild in mmo's, is a very important feature for me to have as a hardware encoder instead of killing my framerate with FRAPS.


----------



## Maintenance Bot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> No one said it "doesn't have", I said it isn't as good typically in terms of how quickly they come out for many titles or how well they are supported
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For me to buy an AMD card it ahs to be significantly faster and cheaper due to the noise/heat issues, worse drivers, and lack of shadowplay + PhysX which as someone who posts pvp videos and other gameplay such as raid training runs for my guild in mmo's, is a very important feature for me to have as a hardware encoder instead of killing my framerate with FRAPS.


Did you write this?? If you did it was a damm good read.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1806694


----------



## rdr09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> No one said it "doesn't have", I said it isn't as good typically in terms of how quickly they come out for many titles or how well they are supported
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For me to buy an AMD card it ahs to be significantly faster and cheaper due to the noise/heat issues, *worse drivers*, and lack of shadowplay + PhysX which as someone who posts pvp videos and other gameplay such as raid training runs for my guild in mmo's, is a very important feature for me to have as a hardware encoder instead of killing my framerate with FRAPS.


whoa, easy Tiger. i skipped the 670 that iwas about to buy last year. 320.18 came out.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maintenance Bot*
> 
> Did you write this?? If you did it was a damm good read.
> 
> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1806694


Thank you







, and yes, that post is mine. GoldenTiger is my name on all of the major hardware sites like here, h, xtremesystems, pcper, techreport, guru3d, etc.







. I appreciate the comment!


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdr09*
> 
> whoa, easy Tiger. i skipped the 670 that iwas about to buy last year. 320.18 came out.


Never did see more than one or two supposed KILLED CARDS from those drivers... Did however see lots of Techno BF3 / BF4 action.


----------



## Maintenance Bot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Thank you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , and yes, that post is mine. GoldenTiger is my name on all of the major hardware sites like here, h, xtremesystems, pcper, techreport, guru3d, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I appreciate the comment!


Rep 1 for you. I had that book marked for months now and have read it many times over. It all makes sense. I would bet that your predictions are very, very close


----------



## rdr09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Never did see more than one or two supposed KILLED CARDS from those drivers... Did however see lots of Techno BF3 / BF4 action.


i wasn't buying the killing spree. it was the thing about battlefield.


----------



## GenoOCAU

Read it again, its GPU score aka graphics score they're using as a measure to anyone confused.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdr09*
> 
> i wasn't buying the killing spree. it was the thing about battlefield.


ah... See, I couldn't have cared less about all that noise. I haven't been into arcade run & gun for many years now.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> 290 doesn't have profile support for 2-3 GPU configs? There goes my plans to grab a 295x2... listed 2 of 3 titans on ebay now. either way, i'm selling these bad boys, the money will go in the bank until I decide what to do. I can handle gaming on one out of 3 monitors, for now.
> what else would you expect?
> 
> This is how AMD and NV dance... i'm convinced they have started colluding again, tbh.


why sell? With 3 GPUs you could hold out until the real 880 (ti) comes out. instead of these "mid range" cards which seem to be marginally faster. 295X2 wont give you performance you haven't already seen before.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> why sell? With 3 GPUs you could hold out until the real 880 (ti) comes out. instead of these "mid range" cards which seem to be marginally faster. 295X2 wont give you performance you haven't already seen before.


Well, the main reason would be to capitalize on the changes with Xfire & eyefinity, which are being reviewed as being superior to SLI+Surround. I would take a minor drop in performance, for what should be a superior & smoother experience.

I'm very on the fence about this, to the point where I have listed the cards as fixed rate, so that they can be more easily canceled if I changed my mind... The other thing I was thinking about was 295x2 + 1x 290x, or just grabbing 3x 290x + waterblocks... The only issue being that AMD cards tend to have lower resale values than Nvidia products. Also, now is the time to sell off my Titans, if I want to get anything above $500 out of them.

The other thought would be to say screw resale value on the Titans, and hold on to them until Pascal hits.

Seems ebay fees have taken another bump since i list used my account... Looks like the total with ebay + paypal is now up to 15%? That is flat out obscene. Almost makes buying a month of basic store access worth it.


----------



## SLK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *th3illusiveman*
> 
> why sell? With 3 GPUs you could hold out until the real 880 (ti) comes out. instead of these "mid range" cards which seem to be marginally faster. 295X2 wont give you performance you haven't already seen before.


Nvidia is taking the GK104 route again because they can double dip us enthusiasts. They know we will buy this AND the big die they release 6 - 8 months later. I am not falling for this again.







They need to just release the high end, period.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Well, the main reason would be to capitalize on the changes with Xfire & eyefinity, which are being reviewed as being superior to SLI+Surround. I would take a minor drop in performance, for what should be a superior & smoother experience.
> 
> I'm very on the fence about this, to the point where I have listed the cards as fixed rate, so that they can be more easily canceled if I changed my mind... The other thing I was thinking about was 295x2 + 1x 290x, or just grabbing 3x 290x + waterblocks... The only issue being that AMD cards tend to have lower resale values than Nvidia products. Also, now is the time to sell off my Titans, if I want to get anything above $500 out of them.
> 
> The other thought would be to say screw resale value on the Titans, and hold on to them until Pascal hits.
> 
> Seems ebay fees have taken another bump since i list used my account... Looks like the total with ebay + paypal is now up to 15%? That is flat out obscene. Almost makes buying a month of basic store access worth it.


sell the three titans, buy 4 290x + blocks. more performance, smoother crossfire over sli/surround. win win.


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raven Dizzle*
> 
> If the 980s are legit that powerful and legit only around the $500 mark...thats my next purchase. Like, immediately when they are available.


I wish you luck grabbing one at launch.







It wont be easy.


----------



## Nilsom

Very nice!!


----------



## HighTemplar

So basically a 780 Ti for $500. Not exactly extraordinary IMHO, especially for Quad 780 Ti owners like myself









Let me make it clear that I wasn't expecting a big jump from the 780 Ti, but 10% would've made me drop the 780 Ti's for the 4GB of VRAM and extra IPC, especially for $500.

Now it comes down to overclockability, which with my Classifieds (watercooled), wont be an upgrade. So meh, gotta wait another few months...


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> No one said it "doesn't have", I said it isn't as good typically in terms of how quickly they come out for many titles or how well they are supported
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For me to buy an AMD card *hell has to have officially frozen over.*


FTFY!


----------



## NoDoz

Yeah Im gonna go from a single 780 to 2 980s. Im pretty excited, Im ready for the release.


----------



## tkenietz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdr09*
> 
> i think you missed it . . .
> 
> 
> 
> look at the clocks.


If nvidia can get SLI drivers on par with current AMD I don't think it would be that close. Or is CF scaling so well now due to xdma or whatever?


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Man, maybe I'm just losing interest because of my new bike but I just don't really have any interest in either this or the new Intel platform to be honest. This will be the first time since 2011 that I won't have the current top end cards or Intel platform! OMG what is wrong with me?!?!?


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Man, maybe I'm just losing interest because of my new bike but I just don't really have any interest in either this or the new Intel platform to be honest. This will be the first time since 2011 that I won't have the current top end cards or Intel platform! OMG what is wrong with me?!?!?


gotta get your head checked man, life isnt worth living if you dont have a 5960x and 4 way 980 gpus!


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

This is what I'm currently sinking money into these days:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







When I think about what kind of rig I could've built with the cash I paid for that it kinda makes me light headed!


----------



## szeged

very nice









if i didnt buy a new car id have bought about 10 5960x and started binning, but no i have to settle with buying one at a time and wasting my time and amazons time returning them until i get the one i want /rant.


----------



## HighTemplar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Man, maybe I'm just losing interest because of my new bike but I just don't really have any interest in either this or the new Intel platform to be honest. This will be the first time since 2011 that I won't have the current top end cards or Intel platform! OMG what is wrong with me?!?!?


I'm not investing into the GTX 980 nor the 5960x either. I plan on binning a couple 3930K chips and running with an X79 setup until there is at least a used market for the 5960x, and then perhaps I'll pounce on one. As far as the 980, I'll be waiting for the 980 Ti, and it better impress









I've got a Rampage IV setup that I removed an old 3930K out of that is sitting idle with a watercooling loop still attached, and 32 GB of DDR3 1866 not being used, as I've been using one of my 3770K rigs with an ancient P67 WS Revolution board to power my GPU setup.

It does work well as a mainstream vs hex-core testbed for the Quad 290X/Quad 780 Ti review I plan on finishing (hopefully before the next generations are out).

I'm debating the 5820K with the Asus WS board myself with the PLX chips for 16x glory.


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> This is what I'm currently sinking money into these days:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I think about what kind of rig I could've built with the cash I paid for that it kinda makes me light headed!


I can see why you're busy. That is one sexy beast.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> This is what I'm currently sinking money into these days:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I think about what kind of rig I could've built with the cash I paid for that it kinda makes me light headed!


It's only a ninja


----------



## carlhil2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> It's only a ninja

















..SHOTS FIRED...


----------



## Deadboy90

Dat mobile performance tho...


----------



## Deadboy90

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> This is what I'm currently sinking money into these days:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I think about what kind of rig I could've built with the cash I paid for that it kinda makes me light headed!


I would do terrible things to that sexy thing... Im the kind of guy who tries to holla at hot cars I pass. Never works though and the drivers always seem confused.


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> someone please convince me to sell my Titans.


If you seriously want a reason there's 1 pretty compelling 1.. Resale value. Soon as this thing comes out your resale value is going to drop significantly.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> LOL, the 980 already is showing itself to be notably stronger performance wise. And being Maxwell, it will have shadowplay, far lower power use which means lower heat and noise instead of the volcano vacuum known as the R9 290 ref, better multi-card profile support consistently, and to top it all off, extras like PhysX which rocks in borderlands, batman, and other games that do make use of it.


How has the 980 already done this? From a few fudged benchmarks? I'm sure it should be faster as well, but it hasn't already proven this.. It's not even out yet.
Shadowplay is irrelevant.. to me anyway, no one buys the reference 290's these days , and AMD actually has better multi gpu support these days. The only thing you have said that is actually relevant is physx.. and meh to that.


----------



## szeged

some of us abuse the crap out of physx







i think i have more play time on borderlands 2 than i do clocked in at work


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> some of us abuse the crap out of physx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i think i have more play time on borderlands 2 than i do clocked in at work


I like physx in the batman games, but yeah........ not that much out there really taking advantage of it.


----------



## skupples

It's OK Eric. I feel the same way. Almost jumped on a used 4930k the other day, simply to run my memory @ max speeds (woopty dooo memory overclocking = epic amounts of real world performance, I know!) but the resell market is still garbage.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> This is what I'm currently sinking money into these days:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I think about what kind of rig I could've built with the cash I paid for that it kinda makes me light headed!


That is some realistic in-game shot. Are you using GTX980?

/joke


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> It's OK Eric. I feel the same way. Almost jumped on a used 4930k the other day, simply to run my memory @ max speeds (woopty dooo memory overclocking = epic amounts of real world performance, I know!) but the resell market is still garbage.


if you were faster you could have gotten my golden 4930k for super cheap


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> some of us abuse the crap out of physx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i think i have more play time on borderlands 2 than i do clocked in at work


Yeah, I'm sure for the massive borderlands fans physx is a valid consideration, I bought it and played it with a 670 but switched to a 7970 soon afterwards and didn't notice a massive difference but I wasn't that enamored with the game itself anyway. When you say abuse physx you mean there are tweaks to make physx look better or you mean you just use it a lot?

I will definitely be keeping a eye on theese new cards and hope they are priced and perform as good as some of the suggestions in here , would be enough to possible get me on the g-sync train. Performance would need to be significantly better than a r9 290 @ the same price tho. (When I say same price I mean $499- 290 tri x is $499 in OZ.)


----------



## szeged

i just use physx a lot lol. when the 980s come out, if they overclock amazingly, ill be using my 780ti kingpin as a dedicated physx card trololol.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> if you were faster you could have gotten my golden 4930k for super cheap


didn't even know it was on the block.









pfff, boarderlands uses more PhysX than anything else on the market right now. Them singularity / grenades ARE GORGEOUS. If i'm not mistaken, PhysX was one of those things you could even increase via ini changes... You can turn Boarderlands 2 into a completely different game, graphics wise, via INI tweaks... I hope they leave that capability open in the pre-sequal.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> ill be using my 780ti kingpin as a dedicated physx card trololol.


Please say you are joking........


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> Please say you are joking........


wish i was


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> wish i was


...... so you would rather waste that card? not sell it to recoup some $$$?


----------



## szeged

ill never get rid of my kingpin, its going to be a collectors item one day for sure. I can see it now, 4/5 generations from now " the card that started it all"


----------



## Paladin Goo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> I wish you luck grabbing one at launch.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It wont be easy.


Oh, I'll get one. Don't you worry about that.


----------



## Chrono Detector

I hope these cards can run 4K decently despite using a 256 bit memory bus... not sure why NVIDIA would use it again, though I admit their GTX 670/680 were quite good and I hope these cards can deliver that same performance.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chrono Detector*
> 
> I hope these cards can run 4K decently despite using a 256 bit memory bus... not sure why NVIDIA would use it again, though I admit their GTX 670/680 were quite good and I hope these cards can deliver that same performance.


who knows... it could turn the whole debate on memory bus on its head!


----------



## iluvkfc

I really hope this 980 actually retails at $500 with a sub-200W TDP. Not because I plan to buy one but it might lead to me picking up another 780 Ti on the cheap.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> who knows... it could turn the whole debate on memory bus on its head!


I think the bus is still important to a certain degree but really fast ram can help compensate someone with a smaller bus too.


----------



## Aesthethc

Ahh whew, thankfully this 780 Classified @ 1400mhz is going to last me another generation









upgrading to 980 doesnt even look like a good investment from where im at.


----------



## Marc79

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iluvkfc*
> 
> I really hope this 980 actually retails at $500 with a sub-200W TDP. Not because I plan to buy one but it might lead to me picking up another 780 Ti on the cheap.


lol

What is 780 Ti classified for 400 Alex?


----------



## DiaSin

I only skimmed this thread after the first 10 or so pages, so if this has already been said I apologize. Anyway.. there is something I wanted to point out. There are alot of people doubting the $499 rumored price point, and bashing the performance as not being far enough ahead of the 780ti. Think about it this way. The 770 and 780 released quite a bit before the 780ti. People seem to be thinking that the 980 is the successor of the 780ti, when most likely there will be a 980ti a ways down the road after the 970/980 are released, and THAT would be the successor to the 780ti. If you think about the 980 as the new 780, not the 780ti, then all of the numbers fit much better. Going by that logic, that would put the 980 a good 20-25% faster than the card it is replacing.


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> I didn't know that, thanks.


I was perusing the DB because I just broke over 10K pscore with a 7970, which I've never seen anyone do on water with a valid run, so when I came across these three or four runs here... lol I remembered you. Look at the gscore vs the memory size. Interesting huh? ANd the link is not tied to an account, typically you don't want hacks associated to your known name lol.

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1329766


----------



## skupples

Did I miss something? ASUS is selling DCUII 780Ti for $558 with Mail In Rebate, right now, on Newegg.


----------



## szeged

yeah that happened last week, cleaning out stock.


----------



## i7monkey

For the past 2-3 years I've had more enjoyment waiting for leaks and talking to you guys about hypothetical specs/performance than I do actually owning the cards









When I buy a card it almost sits in my computer untouched for a year until the next release


----------



## scotthulbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Did I miss something? ASUS is selling DCUII 780Ti for $558 with Mail In Rebate, right now, on Newegg.


Actually its $529 after rebate and the extra 5% off till the end of Monday. Seems like a great deal if the new cards weren't mere hours away. Well lots of hours but still


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scotthulbs*
> 
> Actually its $529 after rebate and the extra 5% off till the end of Monday. Seems like a great deal if the new cards weren't mere hours away. Well lots of hours but still


Mere hours away ? Where did you get that rumor ? I thought the going rumor was it was being shown off at that 24hr gaming event on the 18th


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> I didn't know that, thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> I was perusing the DB because I just broke over 10K pscore with a 7970, which I've never seen anyone do on water with a valid run, so when I came across these three or four runs here... lol I remembered you. Look at the gscore vs the memory size. Interesting huh? ANd the link is not tied to an account, typically you don't want hacks associated to your known name lol.
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/fs/1329766
Click to expand...

Could that be from an LN2 cooled R9 280X ?

I'm honestly not much into extreme GPU overclocking, is that score even remotely possible ?

I know there are 6 GB R9 280X's.

Or it's possibly fake.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> For the past 2-3 years I've had more enjoyment waiting for leaks and talking to you guys about hypothetical specs/performance than I do actually owning the cards
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I buy a card it almost sits in my computer untouched for a year until the next release


Haha, I know that feeling. OCN can be addictive.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *scotthulbs*
> 
> Actually its $529 after rebate and the extra 5% off till the end of Monday. Seems like a great deal if the new cards weren't mere hours away. Well lots of hours but still
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mere hours away ? Where did you get that rumor ? I thought the going rumor was it was being shown off at that 24hr gaming event on the 18th
Click to expand...

Well, 264 hours or so away (he did say lots of hours







).


----------



## scotthulbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Mere hours away ? Where did you get that rumor ? I thought the going rumor was it was being shown off at that 24hr gaming event on the 18th


Pretty sure it should be fewer than 300 hours from now


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> If you seriously want a reason there's 1 pretty compelling 1.. Resale value. Soon as this thing comes out your resale value is going to drop significantly.
> How has the 980 already done this? From a few fudged benchmarks? I'm sure it should be faster as well, but it hasn't already proven this.. It's not even out yet.
> Shadowplay is irrelevant.. to me anyway, no one buys the reference 290's these days , and AMD actually has better multi gpu support these days. The only thing you have said that is actually relevant is physx.. and meh to that.


Well if no one buys ref 290 then they are the same cost but clearly worse than a 980 unless something horrific comes. Shadow play is a major factor to many people, even if you don't personally care. Maxwell has proven itself with the750ti. These Benches are not fudged, they are taken from 3dmark.com. Only uncertainty is how sli will scale with release drivers and if it hits the right pricing. Physx is used in enough major quality games it is a great feature from some people . your post has now been....Wait for it...







. . , disMANTLEd


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Well if no one buys ref 290 then they are the same cost but clearly worse than a 980 unless something horrific comes. Shadow play is a major factor to many people, even if you don't personally care. Maxwell has proven itself with the750ti. These Benches are not fudged, they are taken from 3dmark.com. Only uncertainty is how sli will scale with release drivers and if it hits the right pricing. Physx is used in enough major quality games it is a great feature from some people . your post has now been....Wait for it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . . , disMANTLEd


It will be interesting to see how Maxwell scales in SLI, since until now we haven't had the chance to do it since GM107 doesn't have it. AMD has XDMA, I wonder if Nvidia did anything in that area.

As to pricing my bet is that if the GTX 970 comes in at $399.99, and it appears from the rumours that this model will have custom versions available right from the start, it's predictable that AMD will have to lower the R9 290's price by around $50, and that will also influence the price of the yet to be released R9 285X, which will ultimately make them also lower the price of the R9 285.

AMD apparently said that they don't intend to adjust their pricing in the near future. It seems obvious that it's inevitable, but they just couldn't admit to that, as that would essentially mean they wouldn't sell R9 285's until they did. But the question itself is just the result of what is pretty much an evidence as soon as Nvidia launches its cards.

I bet that is also why AMD is withholding the R9 285X for now, because they will likely have to set its price based on what Nvidia delivers with the GTX 970.

If Nvidia launches the GTX 970 at $399,99 and lowers the price of the GTX 770 to $275 as has been rumoured (and they should lower the price of the GTX 760 to $200 while they are at it, in my opinion), then:

- AMD has to lower the price of the R9 290 to $349,99;
- The R9 285X will have to be launched at $275 instead of $299.99;
- The R9 285's price will have to be lowered to $225, which is where it should have started.


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Well if no one buys ref 290 then they are the same cost but clearly worse than a 980 unless something horrific comes. your post has now been....Wait for it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . . , disMANTLEd


The only thing I see being dismantled with horrific outcomes is for those people who predict a 30% increase in performance over a 780ti with a price tag of $499. But we shall see.


----------



## thegreatsquare

The 870m/880m only released in March so this is a pretty swift release for the 970m/980m. [...are we just heading for 1H 2015 die shrinks to repeat with just another swift change?]

The performance on the 980m is sick for mobile, but the 970m isn't too shabby either ...sort of similar to the desktop R9 285. The likely price point for a 970m equipped laptop is going to make it the "bang4thebuck" gaming laptop.

I have a feeling that a sub $1500 970m equipped laptop could entice me to buy earlier than I've anticipated, but I need more info on availability dates before my 3mo. bonds rollover around the end of the month.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> It will be interesting to see how Maxwell scales in SLI, since until now we haven't had the chance to do it since GM107 doesn't have it. AMD has XDMA, I wonder if Nvidia did anything in that area.
> 
> As to pricing my bet is that if the GTX 970 comes in at $399.99, and it appears from the rumours that this model will have custom versions available right from the start, it's predictable that AMD will have to lower the R9 290's price by around $50, and that will also influence the price of the yet to be released R9 285X, which will ultimately make them also lower the price of the R9 285.
> 
> AMD apparently said that they don't intend to adjust their pricing in the near future. It seems obvious that it's inevitable, but they just couldn't admit to that, as that would essentially mean they wouldn't sell R9 285's until they did. But the question itself is just the result of what is pretty much an evidence as soon as Nvidia launches its cards.
> 
> I bet that is also why AMD is withholding the R9 285X for now, because they will likely have to set its price based on what Nvidia delivers with the GTX 970.
> 
> If Nvidia launches the GTX 970 at $399,99 and lowers the price of the GTX 770 to $275 as has been rumoured (and they should lower the price of the GTX 760 to $200 while they are at it, in my opinion), then:
> 
> - AMD has to lower the price of the R9 290 to $349,99;
> - The R9 285X will have to be launched at $275 instead of $299.99;
> - The R9 285's price will have to be lowered to $225, which is where it should have started.


You make a good point all around here.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> The only thing I see being dismantled with horrific outcomes is for those people who predict a 30% increase in performance over a 780ti with a price tag of $499. But we shall see.


mboner1, it was meant as a light-hearted ending to my response







. We'll see soon enough.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thegreatsquare*
> 
> The 870m/880m only released in March so this is a pretty swift release for the 970m/980m. [...are we just heading for 1H 2015 die shrinks to repeat with just another swift change?]
> 
> The performance on the 980m is sick for mobile, but the 970m isn't too shabby either ...sort of similar to the desktop R9 285. The likely price point for a 970m equipped laptop is going to make it the "bang4thebuck" gaming laptop.
> 
> I have a feeling that a sub $1500 970m equipped laptop could entice me to buy earlier than I've anticipated, but I need more info on availability dates before my 3mo. bonds rollover around the end of the month.


The GTX 880M and 870M are GK104 based parts, so it's in essence based on 2012 technology. The transition to Maxwell is more than natural and beneficial given the power efficiency of the architecture, not to mention that a few GTX 800M parts are already based on GM107.


----------



## Oubadah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Physx is used in enough major quality games it is a great feature from some people.


What games have a worthwhile implementation of PhysX? Every implementation I've ever seen has been pathetic and not even worth the extra heat of the second card (although that was mostly older games).

With my latest build I left space for a GTX 780 for PhysX that I thought I might get later on, but only if I see a compelling PhysX implementation in at least a couple of games.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> What games have a worthwhile implementation of PhysX? Every implementation I've ever seen has been pathetic and not even worth the extra heat of the second card (although that was mostly older games).
> 
> With my latest build I left space for a GTX 780 for PhysX that I thought I might get later on, but only if I see a compelling PhysX implementation in at least a couple of games.


The two major ones I personally play would be the Batman series games, and Borderlands series games. Some others have used it also such as mirror's edge way back when, cryostasis , and tom Clancy games, which provided some nice eye candy. It's definitely not a huge selling point, but it isn't one I dismiss either







. A GTX 750 Ti 2gb at this point can be had for $120-130 on sales and generates just this side of no heat/power usage/noise if you're after a PhysX card, just as an example.


----------



## Gorea

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> It will be interesting to see how Maxwell scales in SLI, since until now we haven't had the chance to do it since GM107 doesn't have it. AMD has XDMA, I wonder if Nvidia did anything in that area.
> 
> As to pricing my bet is that if the GTX 970 comes in at $399.99, and it appears from the rumours that this model will have custom versions available right from the start, it's predictable that AMD will have to lower the R9 290's price by around $50, and that will also influence the price of the yet to be released R9 285X, which will ultimately make them also lower the price of the R9 285.
> 
> AMD apparently said that they don't intend to adjust their pricing in the near future. It seems obvious that it's inevitable, but they just couldn't admit to that, as that would essentially mean they wouldn't sell R9 285's until they did. But the question itself is just the result of what is pretty much an evidence as soon as Nvidia launches its cards.
> 
> I bet that is also why AMD is withholding the R9 285X for now, because they will likely have to set its price based on what Nvidia delivers with the GTX 970.
> 
> If Nvidia launches the GTX 970 at $399,99 and lowers the price of the GTX 770 to $275 as has been rumoured (and they should lower the price of the GTX 760 to $200 while they are at it, in my opinion), then:
> 
> - AMD has to lower the price of the R9 290 to $349,99;
> - The R9 285X will have to be launched at $275 instead of $299.99;
> - The R9 285's price will have to be lowered to $225, which is where it should have started.


That would add even more nails into the "PC gaming is expensive" coffin.









Sure the 750 ti did that, but it's still a low-end card while the 760 is quite powerful. Plus the recent overclock-able G3258 - along with B85 OCing motherboards - adds even more price reduction. From a strictly gaming point of view dual core is more than enough and high OCing makes up for only two anyways.

If RAM was as cheap as it was 1.5+ years ago we could possibly bring entire system builds as cheap (or much closer at least) as consoles.


----------



## thegreatsquare

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> The GTX 880M and 870M are GK104 based parts, so it's in essence based on 2012 technology. The transition to Maxwell is more than natural and beneficial given the power efficiency of the architecture, not to mention that a few GTX 800M parts are already based on GM107.


I know the mobile gpu market has been essentially stagnant since the 680m/7970m, I've been watching and waiting for something really worth upgrading to for a long time.

...and now, "They're heeerrrrrre."


----------



## CalinTM

Really dont care about kepler price cuts







Want my 980 NOW !!!!!

Maybe i will make my first ever SLI, when the big maxwell comes. Put 2 980 in sli.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> Really dont care about kepler price cuts
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Want my 980 NOW !!!!!
> 
> Maybe i will make my first ever SLI, when the big maxwell comes. Put 2 980 in sli.


Me either, but it does help the pc gaming industry for the bar to entry to be lower







.

I'm deciding between two 970's or one 980 for now and a 2nd 980 very slightly later.... guess I'll see how the reviews pan out.

EDIT: Who am I kidding, two gtx 980's for me.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> What games have a worthwhile implementation of PhysX? Every implementation I've ever seen has been pathetic and not even worth the extra heat of the second card (although that was mostly older games).
> 
> With my latest build I left space for a GTX 780 for PhysX that I thought I might get later on, but only if I see a compelling PhysX implementation in at least a couple of games.


I thought NV completely locked out phsyx unless the main card is NV.


----------



## Glottis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> What games have a worthwhile implementation of PhysX? Every implementation I've ever seen has been pathetic and not even worth the extra heat of the second card (although that was mostly older games).
> 
> With my latest build I left space for a GTX 780 for PhysX that I thought I might get later on, but only if I see a compelling PhysX implementation in at least a couple of games.


Borderlands 2 has a stunning implementation of PhysX that is used throughout the game every time you shoot your gun, unlike some other games where you have PhysX in just one tiny area or such. Too bad it's the only game which I consider has properly implemented PhysX.


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Me either, but it does help the pc gaming industry for the bar to entry to be lower
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I'm deciding between two 970's or one 980 for now and a 2nd 980 very slightly later.... guess I'll see how the reviews pan out.


The sooner they release, the better. I will buy only a MSI Lightning card. My 680 lightning is a very reliable card, a very good card. I use the card from 2012 with 1.25v and the gpu never had a problem.

Also when 680 released, how much time passed, until those custom PCB cards came out ? I cant remember.... If 980 will release in september, maybe in January i could find in stock a 980 Lightning ?


----------



## Pantsu

People certainly have optimism thinking this will lower prices. I don't see any reason for Nvidia to price the 980 and 970 aggressively, so most likely they'll just keep the status quo and milk all they can get out of the new chips. AMD and Nvidia have lately been quite shrewd about not competing in the same categories and artificially raising the asp. Makes me wish Intel had something competitive in the GPU market too.


----------



## CalinTM

^ Yes, but GM204 is still a mainstream chip, so the price will be within some boundaries aka, will not be expensive like 780 Ti, because its not high-end.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> The sooner they release, the better. I will buy only a MSI Lightning card. My 680 lightning is a very reliable card, a very good card. I use the card from 2012 with 1.25v and the gpu never had a problem.
> 
> Also when 680 released, how much time passed, until those custom PCB cards came out ? I cant remember.... If 980 will release in september, maybe in January i could find in stock a 980 Lightning ?


For the 680 it took months... I'm going to watch closely for news on the 980's timeframe and decide whether to go ref from there since I'm running SLI.


----------



## Menta

it might not be a high end chip but its a new architecture,if it out performs the 700 series and think it will for obvious reasons. they will price charge, main chip or high end, and this point is redundant. either way you look at it, its high end from where i see it if it performs better

700 series will have the custom price cut until its sold out and fades away.

whats different this time, the 780ti that was pushed up to maintain the crown, for me thats where some confusion is taking place


----------



## AMW1011

If nothing else, with Haswell-e and now this its been another fun time being a PC enthusiast, we get so few new toys any more. Its so hard deciding whether to wait for the GTX 980 to release or to pick up one of those cheap non-ref R9 290s.


----------



## CalinTM

They want to get rid of Kepler ? It needs to happen, Kepler is from 2012....


----------



## Razor 116

I'll wait for Big Maxwell or just get another 780 and skip Maxwell completely If only I was willing to deal with SLI issues.


----------



## skupples

But 980 isn't big die its GK104 2.0


----------



## AMW1011

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razor 116*
> 
> I'll wait for Big Maxwell or just get another 780 and skip Maxwell completely If only I was willing to deal with SLI issues.


I see a lot of people complain about SLI, but even back with my 8800 GTS G92s, I never had much in the way of issues. If you're on this forum, I'd imagine SLI/CFX are easy to manage for most of our users. Especially now with microstuttering/frame pacing issues being fixed on both sides.


----------



## Menta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razor 116*
> 
> I'll wait for Big Maxwell or just get another 780 and skip Maxwell completely If only I was willing to deal with SLI issues.


if i had a 780\ti would not be worried at all, would probably do the same thing and hold out.had a 560ti went to a 760 and now decided to upgrade to the "best" i can get, as much as i would like to wait for "big Maxwell" its not possible to wait that long


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMW1011*
> 
> I see a lot of people complain about SLI, but even back with my 8800 GTS G92s, I never had much in the way of issues. If you're on this forum, I'd imagine SLI/CFX are easy to manage for most of our users. Especially now with microstuttering/frame pacing issues being fixed on both sides.


SLi is great... But NV REALLY needs to step up the scaling and Surround game. AMD currently offers a better experience in both departments specially when combined.they have made huge improvements since getting called out on frame pacing and fake scaling of Tahiti


----------



## Razor 116

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMW1011*
> 
> I see a lot of people complain about SLI, but even back with my 8800 GTS G92s, I never had much in the way of issues. If you're on this forum, I'd imagine SLI/CFX are easy to manage for most of our users. Especially now with microstuttering/frame pacing issues being fixed on both sides.


I'm not complaining about SLI itself It's more to do with games not supporting it entirely or really buggy support etc. either way I prefer a single card setup.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razor 116*
> 
> I'm not complaining about SLI itself It's more to do with games not supporting it entirely or really buggy support etc. either way I prefer a single card setup.


Games that don't properly support are the minority, by far.


----------



## zealord

What would you guys say is more likely?

A) Nvidia releases a 980 Ti next year for 500$/€ next year after AMD has brought something that beats the 980 and Nvidia cuts the price of the 980 to 399$ or

B) Nvidia releases a 980 Ti / Titan 2 for 699-1000$/€ next year ?

I somehow have the feeling that we won't see a GM200 either at 28 or 20nm for less than 650$. So B) is more likely.
Problem is I do not spent more than 500€ on a GPU and I am trying to predict what the future holds. I think in terms of 500€ budget the 980 will be quite alright and it won't get much better in early 2015 in terms of what performance I can get for around 500€.

Let's hope we will seen a 980 Classified/Lightning or something soon that overclocks like a beast


----------



## skupples

Well you probably won't see 20nm until q215 nvidia doesn't haveuch room left @ 28 nm

Anyone know how 128 core clusters vs 192 core clusters affects possible realestate?


----------



## AMW1011

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Razor 116*
> 
> I'm not complaining about SLI itself It's more to do with games not supporting it entirely or really buggy support etc. either way I prefer a single card setup.


Interesting, is support really that big of an issue still? Back when I used SLI very few games had issues with it. The witcher was the only one that I remember being really bothered by.


----------



## JoHnYBLaZe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> What would you guys say is more likely?
> 
> A) Nvidia releases a 980 Ti next year for 500$/€ next year after AMD has brought something that beats the 980 and Nvidia cuts the price of the 980 to 399$ or
> 
> B) Nvidia releases a 980 Ti / Titan 2 for 699-1000$/€ next year ?
> 
> I somehow have the feeling that we won't see a GM200 either at 28 or 20nm for less than 650$. So B) is more likely.
> Problem is I do not spent more than 500€ on a GPU and I am trying to predict what the future holds. I think in terms of 500€ budget the 980 will be quite alright and it won't get much better in early 2015 in terms of what performance I can get for around 500€.
> 
> Let's hope we will seen a 980 Classified/Lightning or something soon that overclocks like a beast


Titan 2 announced before the end of the year and possibly available as well

980ti in response to AMD. announced on the very same week, if not day, as AMD


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMW1011*
> 
> Interesting, is support really that big of an issue still? Back when I used SLI very few games had issues with it. The witcher was the only one that I remember being really bothered by.


I remember a new Nvidia driver a few months ago that added a SLI profile for Hearthstone.

Yeah, you heard that right.

Support can't be _that_ bad. Or if it is, then it's an issue with that particular game, not SLI itself.


----------



## szeged

Sli for hearthstone?

All of the WAT....all of it.


----------



## Mand12

http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/72575/en-us

It's even more funny that they spelled it wrong.


----------



## Gorea

Hearthstone can literally run 60+ fps on Intel on-board GPUs...


----------



## skupples

You didnt hear? But can it run Hearthstone? is the new but can it run Crysis?


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorea*
> 
> That would add even more nails into the "PC gaming is expensive" coffin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure the 750 ti did that, but it's still a low-end card while the 760 is quite powerful. Plus the recent overclock-able G3258 - along with B85 OCing motherboards - adds even more price reduction. From a strictly gaming point of view dual core is more than enough and high OCing makes up for only two anyways.
> 
> If RAM was as cheap as it was 1.5+ years ago we could possibly bring entire system builds as cheap (or much closer at least) as consoles.


In the UK you can build a complete system with a R9 280, 8GB DDR3 1600MHz, a FX 6300 with a 1TB HDD... Basically a full system for around £400-420.

In the UK PC hardware has gotten insanely cheaper, EuroGamer built a next gen PC for £450 which can now be done cheaper or even better for the same cost, the PS4 used to be £400-450.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> ^ Yes, but GM204 is still a mainstream chip, so the price will be within some boundaries aka, will not be expensive like 780 Ti, because its not high-end.


If they're up their with the 290s and 780s, if not outperforming them then they will be high-end.


----------



## skupples

Fastest card on the market =\= high end when NV has an even larger contender in the works... They won't fool us this time with the "titan is as good as it FETs" talk.


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> What would you guys say is more likely?
> 
> A) Nvidia releases a 980 Ti next year for 500$/€ next year after AMD has brought something that beats the 980 and Nvidia cuts the price of the 980 to 399$ or
> 
> B) Nvidia releases a 980 Ti / Titan 2 for 699-1000$/€ next year ?
> 
> I somehow have the feeling that we won't see a GM200 either at 28 or 20nm for less than 650$. So B) is more likely.
> Problem is I do not spent more than 500€ on a GPU and I am trying to predict what the future holds. I think in terms of 500€ budget the 980 will be quite alright and it won't get much better in early 2015 in terms of what performance I can get for around 500€.
> 
> Let's hope we will seen a 980 Classified/Lightning or something soon that overclocks like a beast


Nvidia releases a Ti version only on bit maxwell chip. Mainstream chips dont get Ti versions. GK104 didnt got Ti version.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> Nvidia releases a Ti version only on bit maxwell chip. Mainstream chips dont get Ti versions. GK104 didnt got Ti version.


And what is GM107 then?


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> Nvidia releases a Ti version only on bit maxwell chip. Mainstream chips dont get Ti versions. GK104 didnt got Ti version.


What about the 660 Ti?

I hope they don't decide to release a 970 Ti, no past x70 cards had Ti versions so they shouldn't.


----------



## tkenietz

Some 290s on sale for $350 now, $90 cheaper than cheapest 780, right in the middle of 770 land, in fact $15 less than the cheapest 4gb 770. Prime possition to compete with 970.

Dang I'm getting excited! I can see those luscious 4xmsaa frames flowing, I can see flicker no more, I see no colorful pinstriped artifact screens..


----------



## routek

Yeah, 660ti is GK104

Also 750ti exists


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *routek*
> 
> Yeah, 660ti is GK104
> 
> Also 750ti exists


Yep, 750 ti is GM107 even.


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *routek*
> 
> Yeah, 660ti is GK104
> 
> Also 750ti exists


Those are not big die Ti cards.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MapRef41N93W*
> 
> Those are not big die Ti cards.


That was the point. The claim was that "mainstream chips don't get Ti versions" which is false.


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> That was the point. The claim was that "mainstream chips don't get Ti versions" which is false.


I'm pretty sure he was referring to the flagship card getting a TI.


----------



## keikei

So 980 is a prelude. Nvidia waits for AMD's response and/or drops the Ti a few months later. Why cant green team just release all their cards at the same time? Or is this bad business, like showing all your cards? As a consumer willing to drop a lot of cash on a premium product, this really pisses me off (talking about these business tactics).


----------



## skupples

Its more common for "mainstream" to get the TI branding over top of the food chain products.


----------



## nyxagamemnon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> So 980 is a prelude. Nvidia waits for AMD's response and/or drops the Ti a few months later. Why cant green team just release all their cards at the same time? Or is this bad business, like showing all your cards? As a consumer willing to drop a lot of cash on a premium product, this really pisses me off (talking about these business tactics).


Because there is no more competition. We have just cycles that either intersect with Amd or vice versa. There needs to be more players in the gpu game to get things moving. Also any technology node handicaps 28 nm vs 20 etc play apart as well.

Both companies are playing a rigged poker game,

Amd raises a 7970, nvidia counters with a 680, amd calls a bluff with nothing, then nvidia says I'll raise you a titan, Amd folds with nothing. Then amd bets a r9 290x while nvidia raises a 780ti. Then amd counters with a r9 295x2 then nvidia goes all in with the titan z.

Then we revert back go the 680 and 7970 cycle again with the 980 series.

From a consumer point of view the market is not delivering what you want but from a business standpoint how much more reliable and predictable can you be?

A safe bet!

Or collusion ?

Nvidia yeah I'll release my next card around fall/winter and Amd give me 6 months of sales then you drop your card and you get 6 months and then I'll drop my card again and blah blah blah haha.

And the common link?

The foundry they both share and visit for there secret meetings!!

All of course normal lool


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyxagamemnon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> So 980 is a prelude. Nvidia waits for AMD's response and/or drops the Ti a few months later. Why cant green team just release all their cards at the same time? Or is this bad business, like showing all your cards? As a consumer willing to drop a lot of cash on a premium product, this really pisses me off (talking about these business tactics).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because there is no more competition. We have just cycles that either intersect with Amd or vice versa. There needs to be more players in the gpu game to get things moving. Also any technology node handicaps 28 nm vs 20 etc play apart as well.
> 
> Both companies are playing a rigged poker game
Click to expand...

Exactly. I used to have Matrox millenium several years ago and it was awesome back then. Would have been nice if they pursued the same target business as ATI/AMD and Nvidia. Could also be a patent challenge, that majority of what human brain of this generation could think of is being held by either company.


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyxagamemnon*
> 
> Because there is no more competition. We have just cycles that either intersect with Amd or vice versa. There needs to be more players in the gpu game to get things moving. Also any technology node handicaps 28 nm vs 20 etc play apart as well.
> 
> Both companies are playing a rigged poker game,
> 
> Amd raises a 7970, nvidia counters with a 680, amd calls a bluff with nothing, then nvidia says I'll raise you a titan, Amd folds with nothing. Then amd bets a r9 290x while nvidia raises a 780ti. Then amd counters with a r9 295x2 then nvidia goes all in with the titan z.
> 
> Then we revert back go the 680 and 7970 cycle again with the 980 series.
> 
> From a consumer point of view the market is not delivering what you want but from a business standpoint how much more reliable and predictable can you be?
> 
> A safe bet!
> 
> Or collusion ?
> 
> Nvidia yeah I'll release my next card around fall/winter and Amd give me 6 months of sales then you drop your card and you get 6 months and then I'll drop my card again and blah blah blah haha.
> 
> And the common link?
> 
> The foundry they both share and visit for there secret meetings!!
> 
> All of course normal lool


This is the problem with a duopoly. In some cases it can be worse than a monopoly, because it gives the appearance of competition when really their is major collusion and price fixing going on.


----------



## nyxagamemnon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acupalypse*
> 
> Exactly. I used to have Matrox millenium several years ago and it was awesome back then. Would have been nice if they pursued the same target business as ATI/AMD and Nvidia. Could also be a patent challenge, that majority of what human brain of this generation could think of is being held by either company.


Good old days are gone. I remember the powervr matrox few others only 2d cards and you had to have a 3dfx voodoo as your 3rd card, and they used glide or open gl


----------



## nyxagamemnon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MapRef41N93W*
> 
> This is the problem with a duopoly. In some cases it can be worse than a monopoly, because it gives the appearance of competition when really their is major collusion and price fixing going on.


I'd bet this is the case 100% the seas are too dam calm right now in the 90's you had many people trying now it's just consolidated into 2.


----------



## SEMPERMONSTER

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> This is what I'm currently sinking money into these days:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When I think about what kind of rig I could've built with the cash I paid for that it kinda makes me light headed!


She's beautiful!!!! I'm about to get the same bike or an r1.


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyxagamemnon*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Because there is no more competition. We have just cycles that either intersect with Amd or vice versa. There needs to be more players in the gpu game to get things moving. Also any technology node handicaps 28 nm vs 20 etc play apart as well.
> 
> Both companies are playing a rigged poker game,
> 
> Amd raises a 7970, nvidia counters with a 680, amd calls a bluff with nothing, then nvidia says I'll raise you a titan, Amd folds with nothing. Then amd bets a r9 290x while nvidia raises a 780ti. Then amd counters with a r9 295x2 then nvidia goes all in with the titan z.
> 
> Then we revert back go the 680 and 7970 cycle again with the 980 series.
> 
> From a consumer point of view the market is not delivering what you want but from a business standpoint how much more reliable and predictable can you be?
> 
> A safe bet!
> 
> Or collusion ?
> 
> Nvidia yeah I'll release my next card around fall/winter and Amd give me 6 months of sales then you drop your card and you get 6 months and then I'll drop my card again and blah blah blah haha.
> 
> And the common link?
> 
> The foundry they both share and visit for there secret meetings!!
> 
> All of course normal lool


The past cycle i've noticed a lot more countering by both sides. Either by performance topping, price cuts, or game bundling. Suffice it to say, we can assume Nvidia reveals 2 new cards this month, but probably have another 3 in the back burner just to counter AMD. I still remember back in the day where there was an entire lineup released so you could weigh your options before purchasing. Now, I dont think that reality exist anymore.


----------



## Wihglah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyxagamemnon*
> 
> Good old days are gone. I remember the powervr matrox few others only 2d cards and you had to have a 3dfx voodoo as your 3rd card, and they used glide or open gl


Power VR and Glide - Quake and Unreal. Back when gameplay was important.


----------



## nyxagamemnon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> [/SPOILER]
> 
> The past cycle i've noticed a lot more countering by both sides. Either by performance topping, price cuts, or game bundling. Suffice it to say, we can assume Nvidia reveals 2 new cards this month, but probably have another 3 in the back burner just to counter AMD. I still remember back in the day where there was an entire lineup released so you could weigh your options before purchasing. Now, I dont think that reality exist anymore.


Some fake caveman style clubbing will go on and then silence as profits reap then more clubbing then silence until a new player enters the game then which one side or the other will try to buy









Looks like competition but it's just like a planned outcome lol. After all the link is the foundry.


----------



## nyxagamemnon

Haha you can see Original Quake then GLQuake then an updated one









[/code]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wihglah*
> 
> Power VR and Glide - Quake and Unreal. Back when gameplay was important.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wihglah*
> 
> Power VR and Glide - Quake and Unreal. Back when gameplay was important.


I remember when I first Ran Quake with a 3DFX Voodoo it was night an day compared to the 2D version. Now it's become more of a FPS shootout than anything else that Jump will never come again









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wihglah*
> 
> Power VR and Glide - Quake and Unreal. Back when gameplay was important.


----------



## cstkl1

eh looking at those scores..

looks like decent 4k gaming for laptop now possible.. or close to 4k...

awesome.


----------



## nyxagamemnon

Okay I just have to say this one last thing.

Drum roll The Foundry! with both reps on hand!!









You form the 3 Way conspiracy cycle!







Nvidia at one end AMD the other and the joining hands of Taiwan Semiconductor









Lol









Ofcourse the Global Foundries on the side makes things look all that a little more legit that AMD sends some work there







After all 90+% Of the GPU Market that AMD and Nvidia are after happens inside the walls of TSMC. Who knows what goes on!


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyxagamemnon*
> 
> Because there is no more competition. We have just cycles that either intersect with Amd or vice versa. There needs to be more players in the gpu game to get things moving. Also any technology node handicaps 28 nm vs 20 etc play apart as well.
> 
> Both companies are playing a rigged poker game,
> 
> Amd raises a 7970, nvidia counters with a 680, amd calls a bluff with nothing, then nvidia says I'll raise you a titan, Amd folds with nothing. Then amd bets a r9 290x while nvidia raises a 780ti. Then amd counters with a r9 295x2 then nvidia goes all in with the titan z.
> 
> Then we revert back go the 680 and 7970 cycle again with the 980 series.
> 
> From a consumer point of view the market is not delivering what you want but from a business standpoint how much more reliable and predictable can you be?
> 
> A safe bet!
> 
> Or collusion ?
> 
> Nvidia yeah I'll release my next card around fall/winter and Amd give me 6 months of sales then you drop your card and you get 6 months and then I'll drop my card again and blah blah blah haha.
> 
> And the common link?
> 
> The foundry they both share and visit for there secret meetings!!
> 
> All of course normal lool


It's called sanctioned Collusion. They can't physically get together to say "ok, you get January through June, I get July through December", so instead it just magically happens while sharing a foundry... MAYBE AMD will switch GPU manufacturing back to glofo, not just CPUs... That could actually like a small fire.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cstkl1*
> 
> eh looking at those scores..
> 
> looks like decent 4k gaming for laptop now possible.. *or close to 4k...*
> 
> awesome.


The same could be said about pricing.









(Joke)


----------



## CalinTM

When i said mainstream cards dont get Ti versions, i mean the full mainstream chip like 680 Gk104. Not nerfed cards from a full mainstream chip, GK104 Gm204.


----------



## nyxagamemnon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> It's called sanctioned Collusion. They can't physically get together to say "ok, you get January through June, I get July through December", so instead it just magically happens while sharing a foundry... MAYBE AMD will switch GPU manufacturing back to glofo, not just CPUs... That could actually like a small fire.


Well hehe the point is made







Yeah I mean you can do alot of things on the implied and not on the physical


----------



## dubldwn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> When i said mainstream cards dont get Ti versions, i mean the full mainstream chip like 680 Gk104. Not nerfed cards from a full mainstream chip, GK104 Gm204.


560Ti GF114


----------



## diggiddi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> You didnt hear? But can it run Hearthstone? is the new but can it run Crysis?


Nope it isn't, see my sig for that


----------



## diggiddi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SEMPERMONSTER*
> 
> She's beautiful!!!! I'm about to get the same bike or an r1.


Yeah that is noice, a Z6 huh?


----------



## kingduqc

This does smell incremental performance upgrade.

*sob* no intel, stop it.
*sob* please nvidia, more then 5% this time *snif*


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> I've been doing some math based on the rumours so far, what we know from GM107 (GTX 750 Ti and 750) and Maxwell's efficiency compared to Kepler, from what Nvidia said about the L2 cache not necessarily scaling with core count and reached the conclusion that it might very well be possible to make GM200 (Titan II) on 28nm.
> 
> If the GTX 980 has indeed 2560 cores and a 256-bit memory bus, it's probable it will have 4 MB of L2, with GM106 (GTX 960 Ti, 960) having 3 MB L2 and a 192-bit memory bus. GM200 will most probably have a 384-bit memory bus and thus won't need more than 4 MB of L2, thus saving die space and transistor count, which will probably be very high already.
> 
> Nvidia didn't provide a die shot of GM107 when it was released, but they did provide a diagram. Assuming that the proportions of the internal components are more or less right, I've reached the following:
> 
> 
> GM107, 640 Cuda cores, 16 ROPs, 128-bit memory bus, 2 GB VRAM, 2 MB L2 cache, 1,87 B transistors, 148 mm2
> 
> Estimated:
> 
> 
> GM106, 1280 Cuda cores, 24 ROPs, 192-bit memory bus, 3 GB VRAM, 3 MB L2 cache, 3,26 B transistors, 257,98 mm2
> GM104, 2560 Cuda cores, 32 ROPs, 256-bit memory bus, 4 GB VRAM, 4 MB L2 cache, 5,92 B transistors, 468,92 mm2
> GM200, 3200 Cuda cores, 48 ROPs, 384-bit memory bus, 6 GB VRAM, 4 MB L2 cache, 7,44 B transistors, 588,91 mm2
> Edit: for GM200 I didn't take into consideration how many transistors and space the double precision capability might take, so it could be bigger (assuming this is more or less correct to start with, and also assuming they didn't do any other optimizations on GM200).
> I don't know, but I got this answer earlier today in this thread, which should help to interpret the situation and take it with a grain of salt:


What do you think about the GTX 970?
Personally, I think it'll be faster or as fast as a GTX Titan.

As the next generation x70 is usually faster than the x80 from the previous generation, which would be the GTX 780, I also think there's a good chance of the GTX 980 being faster than the 780 Ti, or as fast as the minimum.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SEMPERMONSTER*
> 
> She's beautiful!!!! I'm about to get the same bike or an r1.


That's funny, the R1 was the other bike I was considering but I wanted brand new and the R1's were just outside my price range...


----------



## gildadan

Looks like the 900 series will be worth it for me. As I am running 670's still. Think I will step up to a 980. Looks like it might be slightly more powerful than my sli setup now and more efficient. We shall see though.


----------



## TheBlindDeafMute

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> What games have a worthwhile implementation of PhysX? Every implementation I've ever seen has been pathetic and not even worth the extra heat of the second card (although that was mostly older games).
> 
> With my latest build I left space for a GTX 780 for PhysX that I thought I might get later on, but only if I see a compelling PhysX implementation in at least a couple of games.


While it wasn't a AAA release, Hawken looked beautiful with physx turned on. The explosions were eye candy, with pieces flying everywhere

Edit: didn't metro last light use physx as well?


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBlindDeafMute*
> 
> While it wasn't a AAA release, Hawken looked beautiful with physx turned on. The explosions were eye candy, with pieces flying everywhere
> 
> Edit: didn't metro last light use physx as well?


Both did.







Metro 2033 too.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Metro 2033 did as well. I really wish PhysX were implemented by more developers as it is a really nice feature when included like in BL2...


----------



## Zipperly

The physx implementation in metro isnt worth it, nothing like with batman or some other games.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> The physx implementation in metro isnt worth it, nothing like with batman or some other games.


metro physX = a few pieces of cloth, and some ground fog. wooooooooooooo


----------



## Oubadah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> metro physX = a few pieces of cloth, and some ground fog. wooooooooooooo


It's been a couple of years since I played it, but that's my recollection of PhysX in Batman AA to be honest - some cloth and a bit of paper rubbish on the ground along with some fog. The effects looked a bit more seamless than, say, Mafia 2 (where all the physX debris looks completely out of place), but still not very compelling.

Mirror's edge was mentioned too, and I tried that with PhysX just the other week. I really didn't find it very impressive, and enabling it caused stutter for some reason (I wasn't using a dedicated card, but my GPU was nowhere near capacity, and framerate was fixed at 120fps the whole time).

The main upcoming PhysX title that has my attention is The Witcher 3, but I wonder if it will be all it's cracked up to be, or if it will be another disappointment with just a few effects here and there. (or if it will have some bug like the Mirror's edge stutter, because there's no way I'm willing to make that tradeoff.

I was excited for the dedicated PhysX cards back before it was even 'Nvidia PhysX', but after all these years it hasn't really done it for me. It just never seems to justify the extra heat of a second card, and dropping my main card to 8x.


----------



## Menta

The most boriiing wait evaaaa









no news, good leaks... they really have the lid on this one


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> It's been a couple of years since I played it, but that's my recollection of PhysX in Batman AA to be honest - some cloth and a bit of paper rubbish on the ground along with some fog. The effects looked a bit more seamless than, say, Mafia 2 (where all the physX debris looks completely out of place), but still not very compelling.
> 
> Mirror's edge was mentioned too, and I tried that with PhysX just the other week. I really didn't find it very impressive, and enabling it caused stutter for some reason (I wasn't using a dedicated card, but my GPU was nowhere near capacity, and framerate was fixed at 120fps the whole time).
> 
> The main upcoming PhysX title that has my attention is The Witcher 3, but I wonder if it will be all it's cracked up to be, or if it will be another disappointment with just a few effects here and there. (or if it will have some bug like the Mirror's edge stutter, because there's no way I'm willing to make that tradeoff.
> 
> I was excited for the dedicated PhysX cards back before it was even 'Nvidia PhysX', but after all these years it hasn't really done it for me. It just never seems to justify the extra heat of a second card, and dropping my main card to 8x.


I want to see someone adapt Nvidia FLEX.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> The most boriiing wait evaaaa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no news, good leaks... they really have the lid on this one


No kidding... I'd be happy just to know exactly when even at this point







. I just hope it doesn't land on a Friday, so I can overnight two 980's in time for a weekend.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Just to add, we may (hopefully) see some good leaks today if there's truly a press briefing as has been rumored.


----------



## Menta

i am nearly getting a PS4 to play me some destiny..meanwhile









but just cant....have to hold back now.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Heh, it's painful for me since I'm on a gtx 750 ti in the meantime on a 4k monitor, thus needing to run quarter-res. subsampling to have good performance







.


----------



## overpass

Hopefully priced under $500 or thereabouts, it would be a worthwhile upgrade. However, the mobile version really puts the chip ahead of everything.


----------



## gigafloppy

Hopefully the GM204 cards are not _too_ expensive. The 780-Ti costs way too much for what it is. You'd be insane to buy one right now (unless you want to SLI it).

I might buy a 980 or 970 if it's a decent performance upgrade over my 660-SLI setup. I'm really happy with its performance (@1080p) in most games, but lately there have been too many games without SLI support and to be honest, right now I regret buying my second 660. SLI/Crossfire? Never again. I'd rather have good performance in _all_ my games, than insane performance in _some_ of my games. And no more random SLI bugs.

All I want is 780-Ti performance and 4GB VRAM. Most likely I'll wait for the custom coolers and a good game bundle too soften the blow.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *overpass*
> 
> Hopefully priced under $500 or thereabouts, it would be a worthwhile upgrade. However, the mobile version really puts the chip ahead of everything.


Yep, I'm hoping 500 or lower. I think that's really about all that's merited... if they hit 500 or lower I'll be grabbing a pair.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> i am nearly getting a PS4 to play me some destiny..meanwhile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but just cant....have to hold back now.


Stahp.








I've been going through what to do in my mind for days now and I've come to a conclusion, the only way for me to get Destiny would be to buy a PS4 bundle with it, instead of buying two copies, one for my PS3 and another later for the PS4. I dont feel like buying the same game twice within weeks of eachother, the digital verison from the PlayStation Store is supposed to allow you to upgrade to the PS4 version but that costs alot more than the physical copy itself.


----------



## CalinTM

Any dude is hpping for 500$. More than 550$ i dont think it will be, cuz its mainstream card. Mainstream chips need to have some price limits. It will be insane to be like 780 Ti price and a little faster.


----------



## kostacurtas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Just to add, we may (hopefully) see some good leaks today if there's truly a press briefing as has been rumored.


Are we still expecting this rumored event for the press or it will be only the main event on 9/18?


----------



## szeged

I got two 5960x and some unlocked pentiums to entertain me till Maxwell. Hoping for a good leak soon.

Also metro physx sucked and might as well be turned off. Borderlands and batman physx are pretty good.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gigafloppy*
> 
> Hopefully the GM204 cards are not _too_ expensive. The 780-Ti costs way too much for what it is. You'd be insane to buy one right now (unless you want to SLI it).
> 
> I might buy a 980 or 970 if it's a decent performance upgrade over my 660-SLI setup. I'm really happy with its performance (@1080p) in most games, but lately there have been too many games without SLI support and to be honest, right now I regret buying my second 660. SLI/Crossfire? Never again. I'd rather have good performance in _all_ my games, than insane performance in _some_ of my games. And no more random SLI bugs.
> 
> All I want is 780-Ti performance and 4GB VRAM. Most likely I'll wait for the custom coolers and a good game bundle too soften the blow.


780Ti is on clearance right now. You can pickup a DCUii 780Ti for like $530 after all the deals, %'s off, and rebates.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kostacurtas*
> 
> Are we still expecting this rumored event for the press or it will be only the main event on 9/18?


I thought they were the same thing...


----------



## Alatar

Charlie has a paywall article up about GM204 prices.

The fact that it's Charlie and he's not mocking NV in the title or the stub of the article we can see is probably a good sign (assuming he actually has any info that is).


----------



## Luck100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Charlie has a paywall article up about GM204 prices.
> 
> The fact that it's Charlie and he's not mocking NV in the title or the stub of the article we can see is probably a good sign (assuming he actually has any info that is).


Charlie who? Can you put a link or at least something that I can google?


----------



## Mand12

semiaccurate

You'll soon come to appreciate that which is Charlie.


----------



## kostacurtas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luck100*
> 
> Charlie who? Can you put a link or at least something that I can google?


I also didn't know so after a search I believe is this article:

http://semiaccurate.com/2014/09/09/much-will-gm204-card-cost/

You have to be a subscriber to read it...


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luck100*
> 
> Charlie who? Can you put a link or at least something that I can google?


http://semiaccurate.com/2014/09/09/much-will-gm204-card-cost/

Don't read into his articles too much though. He thought K1 was drawing 40 watts, thought that the 680 was going to launch for $300 and only do well in PhysX titles etc.


----------



## Mand12

I wish I could make a website where people would pay me to tell them things I made up.


----------



## CalinTM

^ Me too


----------



## Olivon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Don't read into his articles too much though. He thought K1 was drawing 40 watts, thought that the 680 was going to launch for $300 and only do well in PhysX titles etc.












I remember well yeah.
This guy hates nVidia so much and ridiculize himself so much times that it's ridiculous.
But most ridiculous is the pay wall joke. Pay to view utter bullcr$p is an all new concept, only someone totally disturbed can do that.


----------



## flippin_waffles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> http://semiaccurate.com/2014/09/09/much-will-gm204-card-cost/
> 
> Don't read into his articles too much though. He thought K1 was drawing 40 watts, thought that the 680 was going to launch for $300 and only do well in PhysX titles etc.


He's been more accurate than he has been not accurate. So you should probably point out things like Bumpgate and WoodScrewgate also. I think he hates nv as a business, as do I, but appreciates good engineering. Though their engineering doesn't stand out as being any better than their competition. Depending on your objective it can be seen as substantially worse in things like OpenCL and compute for example.

As to your original cite:
Quote:


> The fact that it's Charlie *and he's not mocking NV in the title or the stub of the article we can see is probably a good sign* (assuming he actually has any info that is).


"*No worries, SI's get jacked too*", is the sub title. To me that means that NV pricing is again out of control. If the rumored numbers are true, Maxwell needs to be well under $500. Not good for NVidia margins, so they'll likely sacrifice sales to maintain their margins because they can soak their NVidia only customers with high prices.


----------



## skupples

Needs to be under $500? Its going to be faster than anything else with 1/2 to 1/3 the power draw. $500-$550 would be just dine to move it off the shelves. It may not be a super 4k contender but who really cares? Itl do 30hz 4k just fine and anyone that is willing/ can afford 60Hz 4k isn't going to cry about a meesly $550 GPU that barely pulls more power than an incandescent lightbulb at 5-10% faster than a 290x/780ti

Everyone makes fun of the wood scews, including Alatar, but people should also make fun of people that call it "woodscrewgate" that is dumb as hell.


----------



## Gorea

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Needs to be under $500? Its going to be faster than anything else with 1/2 to 1/3 the power draw. $500-$550 would be just dine to move it off the shelves. It may not be a super 4k contender but who really cares? Itl do 30hz 4k just fine and anyone that is willing/ can afford 60Hz 4k isn't going to cry about a meesly $550 GPU that barely pulls more power than an incandescent lightbulb at 5-10% faster than a 290x/780ti
> 
> Everyone makes fun of the wood scews, including Alatar, but people should also make fun of people that call it "woodscrewgate" that is dumb as hell.


Anyone who can afford a 4k monitor can afford to SLI.


----------



## Menta

980 Geforce bundle, unity, the crew, far cry 4 =600$

970 unity the crew 429$

can smell it already


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorea*
> 
> Anyone who can afford a 4k monitor can afford to SLI.


yes exactly, but I hate to be a hater, though, but if you wanna go multi gpu I'd say go for AMD if you want to play on 4k multi GPU :

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014/07/23/gtx_780_oc_6gb_vs_r9_290x_4gb_overclocked_at_4k/11#.VA9MOWNtxAk

"In all of our gaming we have shown you today, in every single game AMD CrossFire feels smoother to us than NVIDIA SLI. That's right, the tables have turned on this issue. In fact we experienced many situations where there was choppiness or stuttering with the two ASUS STRIX cards in SLI. It was noticeable, and when we switched to AMD R9 290X CrossFire; CrossFire just felt smoother. "

if you can't wait r9 290 OC ftw









sorry off topic also.. guess it's not totally off topic and sorry for talking bout amd in a nvidia thread uh no don't hate me I'm just quoting an article.


----------



## Menta

Hardocp is not a reliable source, anyone who saw the AMD press conference saw just how ignorant and plain stupid that guy from Hardocp was

not saying it cant be true but trust Hardocp is just decadent


----------



## orick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> 980 Geforce bundle, unity, the crew, far cry 4 =600$
> 
> 970 unity the crew 429$
> 
> can smell it already


Is that what Charlie wrote or your guess?


----------



## Menta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orick*
> 
> Is that what Charlie wrote or your guess?


just my guess


----------



## zealord

and what does the article actually say?


----------



## flippin_waffles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Needs to be under $500? Its going to be faster than anything else with 1/2 to 1/3 the power draw. $500-$550 would be just dine to move it off the shelves. It may not be a super 4k contender but who really cares? Itl do 30hz 4k just fine and anyone that is willing/ can afford 60Hz 4k isn't going to cry about a meesly $550 GPU that barely pulls more power than an incandescent lightbulb at 5-10% faster than a 290x/780ti
> 
> Everyone makes fun of the wood scews, including Alatar, but people should also make fun of people that call it "woodscrewgate" that is dumb as hell.


290x/780ti barely pull more power than an incandescent light bulb either. How much does it cost to run 2 light bulbs? That's how efficient modern GPU's are, it has next to no impact on the power bill. I realize that it is probably one of the only selling point of Maxwell, which was supposed to be some miracle next gen architecture (or is that next gen now? it's hard to know with NVidia constantly rearranging their goal posts), but if it only beats last gen by a measly 5-10% it is a complete fail as a next gen architecture, especially after all the hype. If it is slower than the king of the hill for 4K gaming, Hawaii, then it needs to be priced lower since that is where the premium is today.

By the by, are you so sure it'll be some uber efficient arch? What if these numbers are all overclocked? What if it doesn't scale up as well as people think it will and to compete they have to clock it to 1100+ where it blows out the power budget? I see Charlie has Fermi in the tags, I wonder what that means.

WoodScrewgate


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> and what does the article actually say?


It'd take someone foolish enough to pay him money to tell us.


----------



## orick

Bugmenot isn't working for me


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flippin_waffles*
> 
> 290x/780ti barely pull more power than an incandescent light bulb either. How much does it cost to run 2 light bulbs? That's how efficient modern GPU's are, it has next to no impact on the power bill


funny, this is the same exact case in point when my wife started nitpicking on the electric bill







I showed that we even had higher electric bill on the months when the computer was almost never turned on


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Needs to be under $500? Its going to be faster than anything else with 1/2 to 1/3 the power draw. $500-$550 would be just dine to move it off the shelves. It may not be a super 4k contender but who really cares? Itl do 30hz 4k just fine and anyone that is willing/ can afford 60Hz 4k isn't going to cry about a meesly $550 GPU that barely pulls more power than an incandescent lightbulb at 5-10% faster than a 290x/780ti
> 
> Everyone makes fun of the wood scews, including Alatar, but people should also make fun of people that call it "woodscrewgate" that is dumb as hell.


Yes who cares about 4k really ?? I'll do just fine with my 1080p 144hz + TXAA









Not even Titan Z can handle 60fps on 4k. The cards needs couple more years to have at least 60fps in 4k. probably 2-3 years until 4k 60fps


----------



## specopsFI

It's pretty funny how so many people fail to see the relief that is power efficiency. It's not about the power bill, it's about being able to crank the card up to eleven without having to worry about the heat load and the resulting fan noise.

I'm not expecting a performance leap with the 970/980 and still I sold my very nice 780 in advance of their release. Less heat and noise _is_ progress because guess what: heat and noise were the limiting factor for me with both GK110 and Hawaii. The more power efficient the card is, the more I can push it without hitting my personal heat and noise thresholds. It is as simple as that. "Electricity is cheap" is in no way relevant to this (although I still very much like the general idea of not wasting resources, too).


----------



## fleetfeather

You won't have to worry about heat anyway if NV locks down the voltage again


----------



## specopsFI

...until it gets unlocked, again


----------



## frag06

EVGA just dropped their 780 price to $467 -- $447 with $20 rebate card -- with promo code EVGA991813. Blower version dropped to $450 -- $430 with $20 rebate card -- with promo code 991815.

They also dropped their 780 Ti to $617.98 -- 597.98 with $20 rebate card -- with promo code EVGA99189.

Their K|NGP|N edition dropped to $760 -- $730 with $30 rebate card -- with promo code EVGA9814.

These _could_ be limited time offers, but maybe the price drops have started? We've already seen Asus drop prices on their 780 and 780 Ti.

*All prices via Newegg.* Offers end 9/18 (coincidence?) with the exception of the K|NGP|N edition, which is stated to end 9/14.


----------



## mcg75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> Yes who cares about 4k really ?? I'll do just fine with my 1080p 144hz + TXAA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not even Titan Z can handle 60fps on 4k. The cards needs couple more years to have at least 60fps in 4k. probably 2-3 years until 4k 60fps


If my games couldn't do 60 fps, I wouldn't have a 4K monitor.

Titan Z, 295x2, 290 and 290x Xfire, 780 and 780 Ti SLI are all capable of 4K easily.

The reviews that you see where they have trouble are using ridiculous amounts of AA which is no longer needed like 1080p did.


----------



## Zipperly

.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> Yes who cares about 4k really ?? I'll do just fine with my 1080p 144hz + TXAA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not even Titan Z can handle 60fps on 4k. The cards needs couple more years to have at least 60fps in 4k. probably 2-3 years until 4k 60fps


You might be surprised, I'm able to downsample a lot of my games at 4k and at still get 60 fps on a single 780 that is overclocked.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frag06*
> 
> Offers end 9/18 (coincidence?)


No, that's not a coincidence.


----------



## TopicClocker

Ugh the wait is really getting to me, just 9 more days...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> 980 Geforce bundle, unity, the crew, far cry 4 =600$
> 
> 970 unity the crew 429$
> 
> can smell it already


AC Unity and The Crew would be pretty cool, since those titles are enhanced with NVIDIA gamesworks technologies I would think there's a fair chance of one of them in a bundle.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> You won't have to worry about heat anyway if NV locks down the voltage again


Ugh the green light program needs to end, or at least there could be higher limits. It's hurting overclocking, AMD doesn't do it.


----------



## flippin_waffles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *specopsFI*
> 
> It's pretty funny how so many people fail to see the relief that is power efficiency. It's not about the power bill, it's about being able to crank the card up to eleven without having to worry about the heat load and the resulting fan noise.
> 
> I'm not expecting a performance leap with the 970/980 and still I sold my very nice 780 in advance of their release. Less heat and noise _is_ progress because guess what: heat and noise were the limiting factor for me with both GK110 and Hawaii. The more power efficient the card is, the more I can push it without hitting my personal heat and noise thresholds. It is as simple as that. "Electricity is cheap" is in no way relevant to this (although I still very much like the general idea of not wasting resources, too).


AIB cards are cool and quiet to the point of more than adequate, so that's pretty much a non factor. If this is actually what NV's marketing pitch is going to be, then it likely is true that the performance isn't there. It would also explain why they have leaked rumors about lower prices.

P.S. To whoever just threw the magnify.exe trojan: lol. Amateurs.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flippin_waffles*
> 
> AIB cards are cool and quiet to the point of more than adequate, so that's pretty much a non factor. If this is actually what NV's marketing pitch is going to be, then it likely is true that the performance isn't there. It would also explain why they have leaked rumors about lower prices.
> 
> P.S. To whoever just threw the magnify.exe trojan: lol. Amateurs.


I don't believe Nvidia has intentionally leaked anything. People are pulling guesses out of their nether regions, and calling it rumor.

I guarantee you, Nvidia is not going to do the full launch of a new architecture they're going to be relying on for sales for the next *two years* by saying "Just as good as what you already had, but saves you a few cents on your electric bill!"


----------



## delusion87

Come on. Sell me 970 already. Stupid waiting


----------



## flippin_waffles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> I don't believe Nvidia has intentionally leaked anything. People are pulling guesses out of their nether regions, and calling it rumor.
> 
> I guarantee you, Nvidia is not going to do the full launch of a new architecture they're going to be relying on for sales for the next *two years* by saying "Just as good as what you already had, but saves you a few cents on your electric bill!"


I think they intentionally leaked the pricing info as a prelude to the marketing pitch, and reviewers will beat that drum with both hands. They'll want it to be the narrative going forward and they'll try to convince people that performance is not what buyers should want. It's happening already.


----------



## Gorea

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> Ugh the green light program needs to end, or at least there could be higher limits. It's hurting overclocking, AMD doesn't do it.


The sad thing is that even with that, the 780/780ti OC better than the 290/290x. I guess that's what happens when you go "lol power efficiency is useless".


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorea*
> 
> The sad thing is that even with that, the 780/780ti OC better than the 290/290x. I guess that's what happens when you go "lol power efficiency is useless".


Thats based on the architecture. The power efficiency goes away with a 780ti at 1400+ or a 290x at 1300


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorea*
> 
> The sad thing is that even with that, the 780/780ti OC better than the 290/290x. I guess that's what happens when you go "lol power efficiency is useless".


Yep. Greenlight is a warranty issue and provides safe limits for most machines, I don't blame nvidia at all for curbing warranty abuse by stopping what allows for people abusing it to burn up their cards as easily in the first place. And even with the limits nvidia has better OC'ing and power use.


----------



## specopsFI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flippin_waffles*
> 
> AIB cards are cool and quiet to the point of more than adequate, so that's pretty much a non factor. If this is actually what NV's marketing pitch is going to be, then it likely is true that the performance isn't there. It would also explain why they have leaked rumors about lower prices.


You won't have any luck convincing me that heat and noise are not a factor. First of all, I'm not talking about temperature, I'm talking about heat which is exactly the same thing as power consumption. Temperatures you can (somewhat) counter with a very effective cooler, but not heat. The only way to make the heat load smaller is by reducing energy consumption.

Second, I've owned some very good AIB custom cards, such as R9 290X Tri-X and GTX 780 Classified. When overvolting and overclocking, both got loud enough to bug me while playing games even though I use very well isolated headphones (DT 770 Pro). No matter what you or anyone else say, noise is nowhere near a non-factor, in fact it is *the factor* for me. Maxwell should be the answer to it IMHO.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorea*
> 
> The sad thing is that even with that, the 780/780ti OC better than the 290/290x. I guess that's what happens when you go "lol power efficiency is useless".


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Thats based on the architecture. The power efficiency goes away with a 780ti at 1400+ or a 290x at 1300


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Yep. Greenlight is a warranty issue and provides safe limits for most machines, I don't blame nvidia at all for curbing warranty abuse by stopping what allows for people abusing it to burn up their cards as easily in the first place. And even with the limits nvidia has better OC'ing and power use.


Well I hope that the new cards have a little higher limits, whilst staying a bit more safe if at all possible with the new architecture or just simply overclocking a bit better.

Also about the 780/780 Ti overclocking better than the 290/290X, what is the average OC for the 780 and 780 Ti? from what I've researched is that the 290 is around 1100-1150MHz, although I'm unsure about the 290X, I do recall for the 7950 that 1100-1150MHz was also somewhat in the normal range of average overclocks, and that was one hell of a card when overclocked.


----------



## Gorea

If people are desperate for super high overclocks there are custom GPU bios' out there to bypass default limits, so I don't see the complaint.

Greenlight was not to punish true overclockers, but little kids who go to Precision or Afterburner and go "lol let's push the arrows as high as possible!", then abuse warranties causing needless losses for Nvidia.


----------



## flippin_waffles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *specopsFI*
> 
> You won't have any luck convincing me that heat and noise are not a factor. First of all, I'm not talking about temperature, I'm talking about heat which is exactly the same thing as power consumption. Temperatures you can (somewhat) counter with a very effective cooler, but not heat. The only way to make the heat load smaller is by reducing energy consumption.
> 
> Second, I've owned some very good AIB custom cards, such as R9 290X Tri-X and GTX 780 Classified. When overvolting and overclocking, both got loud enough to bug me while playing games even though I use very well isolated headphones (DT 770 Pro). No matter what you or anyone else say, noise is nowhere near a non-factor, in fact it is *the factor* for me. Maxwell should be the answer to it IMHO.


I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm adding a counter argument. I think it's not something many people will see as a buying point, since AIB partners already do a good job of handling temperature (heat, Watts, call it whatever you'd like) and noise. If these numbers are accurate, it appears that Maxwell is behind on perf/clock and need to jack up the clocks to get the performance they want. Are we sure that it doesn't spike up the power consumption at higher clocks? Weren't there rumors that NV was on a lower power process and how would that work up the stack? Perhaps that rumored 190W TDP is for, say, a 900MHz clock and they blow through that ceiling temporarily with a boost to get the performance rumored.


----------



## specopsFI

We're not *sure* of anything when it comes to GM204 but having seen how frugal the GTX 750 Ti is even when massively overclocked, I can't see a reason to think the GM204's efficiency would scale poorly when pushed beyond stock. The truth remains to be seen, but as of now I expect it to be a very nice chip for air cooled overclocking.


----------



## flippin_waffles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *specopsFI*
> 
> We're not *sure* of anything when it comes to GM204 but having seen how frugal the GTX 750 Ti is even when massively overclocked, I can't see a reason to think the GM204's efficiency would scale poorly when pushed beyond stock. The truth remains to be seen, but as of now I expect it to be a very nice chip for air cooled overclocking.


Yep agreed, we're not sure. Just going off rumors though, it sure doesn't look like the breakout architecture it has been thought of for the last year and more. I'm a little more cynical of the frugality of the 750 though. Getting the card up to the performance of an R7 265 gets it awfully close to the same power draw. Within 20-30W anyway. It seems to be suited for low power, possibly due to the rumored low power process? I'm skeptical that the low power process shows the same benefits up the stack.


----------



## vallonen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gigafloppy*
> 
> All I want is 780-Ti performance and 4GB VRAM.


That would be nice, even nicer still if Nvidia got rid of boost clock and "green light".

(green light = Nanny feature)


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Thats based on the architecture. The power efficiency goes away with a 780ti at 1400+ or a 290x at 1300


What kind of wattage does a 780 Ti suck down at 1400 core?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *specopsFI*
> 
> We're not *sure* of anything when it comes to GM204 but having seen how frugal the GTX 750 Ti is even when massively overclocked, I can't see a reason to think the GM204's efficiency would scale poorly when pushed beyond stock. The truth remains to be seen, but as of now I expect it to be a very nice chip for air cooled overclocking.


My 750 Ti used if i remember correctly 85w when overclocked to 1400 core / 6400 Mem


----------



## mcg75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> Also about the 780/780 Ti overclocking better than the 290/290X, what is the average OC for the 780 and 780 Ti? from what I've researched is that the 290 is around 1100-1150MHz, although I'm unsure about the 290X, I do recall for the 7950 that 1100-1150MHz was also somewhat in the normal range of average overclocks, and that was one hell of a card when overclocked.


Hwbot lists the following as their averages on their website. I am making no claim to their validity.

780 Ti - 1203 on air, 1328 on water.

780 - 1183 on air, 1210 on water.

290x - 1150 air, 1219 on water.

290 - 1121 air, 1158 on water.


----------



## TMatzelle60

With these prices dropping so fast on the 780 i am really tempted on getting the 780 for my son. especially if there is only a marginal performance improvement and lower power draw.

I will most likely get the 780 and wait for the series after the 900 series unless there is a game that needs the 980

Unless i might just wait and see lol so soon soooo soon


----------



## szeged

Those must all be reference models.


----------



## Oubadah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vallonen*
> 
> That would be nice, even nicer still if Nvidia got rid of *boost clock* and "green light".
> 
> (green light = Nanny feature)


I'd certainly love to see the end of 'GPU Boost'. What a useless gimmick.


----------



## rv8000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oubadah*
> 
> I'd certainly love to see the end of 'GPU Boost'. What a useless gimmick.


Agreed. With all of the recent cards I've owned (7950 Boost, 4x290s (different aftermarket and a ref.), 670, 680, 2x780s), "dynamic" clocking under 3d load has been the biggest headache to me. It has caused much stuttering and frame drops in games I personally play and has been more problematic on my nvidia cards than my amd cards. Unfortunately with the people who dislike this feature most likely consisting of a small percentage of the consumers, it will continue to be used for nonsense marketing purposes.


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TMatzelle60*
> 
> With these prices dropping so fast on the 780 i am really tempted on getting the 780 for my son. especially if there is only a marginal performance improvement and lower power draw.
> 
> I will most likely get the 780 and wait for the series after the 900 series unless there is a game that needs the 980
> 
> Unless i might just wait and see lol so soon soooo soon


Hmm dont think its wise...

I assume the 980 will have the same price as 780 vanilla + some extra dollars. Basically in price range, 980 will erase 780 vanilla from the market. Simply because the 980 will have "the same price as 780" and it will be way faster than 780 vanilla.

If u want a card u could buy a 780 Ti, if thats not expensive for you. But i'll wait for 980. It will be best buy, IF it will be within 500-550$.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> Hwbot lists the following as their averages on their website. I am making no claim to their validity.
> 
> 780 Ti - 1203 on air, 1328 on water.
> 
> 780 - 1183 on air, 1210 on water.
> 
> 290x - 1150 air, 1219 on water.
> 
> 290 - 1121 air, 1158 on water.


Thanks! I completely forgot about HWBot.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TMatzelle60*
> 
> With these prices dropping so fast on the 780 i am really tempted on getting the 780 for my son. especially if there is only a marginal performance improvement and lower power draw.
> 
> I will most likely get the 780 and wait for the series after the 900 series unless there is a game that needs the 980
> 
> Unless i might just wait and see lol so soon soooo soon


lol 8 more days until the big announcement, don't give up now!








I also don't think a game needs a high-end GPU, unless you're trying to max something out with a rough specific frame-rate target and resolution.

I really wanna bag myself a GTX 970, I'm hoping it'll be as fast as a Titan for around the launch prices of the GTX 670 and GTX 770.


----------



## iSlayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> yes exactly, but I hate to be a hater, though, but if you wanna go multi gpu I'd say go for AMD if you want to play on 4k multi GPU :
> 
> http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014/07/23/gtx_780_oc_6gb_vs_r9_290x_4gb_overclocked_at_4k/11#.VA9MOWNtxAk
> 
> "In all of our gaming we have shown you today, in every single game AMD CrossFire feels smoother to us than NVIDIA SLI. That's right, the tables have turned on this issue. In fact we experienced many situations where there was choppiness or stuttering with the two ASUS STRIX cards in SLI. It was noticeable, and when we switched to AMD R9 290X CrossFire; CrossFire just felt smoother. "
> 
> if you can't wait r9 290 OC ftw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sorry off topic also.. guess it's not totally off topic and sorry for talking bout amd in a nvidia thread uh no don't hate me I'm just quoting an article.


290 definitely over 780 for 4k. 780 Ti is a different story. 6GB of ram on a 780 is a bit pointless tbh. Way overkill.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> Hardocp is not a reliable source, anyone who saw the AMD press conference saw just how ignorant and plain stupid that guy from Hardocp was
> 
> not saying it cant be true but trust Hardocp is just decadent


Care to say more? Never known HardOCP to be bad.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorea*
> 
> If people are desperate for super high overclocks there are custom GPU bios' out there to bypass default limits, so I don't see the complaint.
> 
> Greenlight was not to punish true overclockers, but little kids who go to Precision or Afterburner and go "lol let's push the arrows as high as possible!", then abuse warranties causing needless losses for Nvidia.


There should be warnings to prevent that.


----------



## kingduqc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rv8000*
> 
> Agreed. With all of the recent cards I've owned (7950 Boost, 4x290s (different aftermarket and a ref.), 670, 680, 2x780s), "dynamic" clocking under 3d load has been the biggest headache to me. It has caused much stuttering and frame drops in games I personally play and has been more problematic on my nvidia cards than my amd cards. Unfortunately with the people who dislike this feature most likely consisting of a small percentage of the consumers, it will continue to be used for nonsense marketing purposes.


Honestly, it's a pain. Some game for no reason sometimes drop the clock to 500 or 300odd mhz on my 670. I freak out cause the game is laggy and try to figure out to see the gpu running at 300mhz at 100% load. Uninstall and reinstal the driver was the only way I found to fix the problem (occurred 3 times in about 2 years).


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rv8000*
> 
> Agreed. With all of the recent cards I've owned (7950 Boost, 4x290s (different aftermarket and a ref.), 670, 680, 2x780s), "dynamic" clocking under 3d load has been the biggest headache to me. It has caused much stuttering and frame drops in games I personally play and has been more problematic on my nvidia cards than my amd cards. Unfortunately with the people who dislike this feature most likely consisting of a small percentage of the consumers, it will continue to be used for nonsense marketing purposes.


Thats why im running a modded bios, my card during gaming stays at 1254mhz regardless of the load that is being placed on it and everything runs silky smooth.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> yes exactly, but I hate to be a hater, though, but if you wanna go multi gpu I'd say go for AMD if you want to play on 4k multi GPU :
> 
> http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014/07/23/gtx_780_oc_6gb_vs_r9_290x_4gb_overclocked_at_4k/11#.VA9MOWNtxAk
> 
> "In all of our gaming we have shown you today, in every single game AMD CrossFire feels smoother to us than NVIDIA SLI. That's right, the tables have turned on this issue. In fact we experienced many situations where there was choppiness or stuttering with the two ASUS STRIX cards in SLI. It was noticeable, and when we switched to AMD R9 290X CrossFire; CrossFire just felt smoother. "
> 
> if you can't wait r9 290 OC ftw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sorry off topic also.. guess it's not totally off topic and sorry for talking bout amd in a nvidia thread uh no don't hate me I'm just quoting an article.


and this is why iv'e been heavily debating selling my Titans, but it seems the manufacturers beat me to the chase with massive cuts on 780Ti.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I dunno Skup, I still see Titans selling for $600+. I'd already decided to hang onto my Titans until big Maxwell next year but the window of getting a decent return on my Titans is nearly at an end and its making me a little nervous. I wonder how much an original Titan will fetch next year when the 980 is already out and big Maxwell is fixing to drop? $300? For some reason Titan seems like such a special card that even though I know it is very nearly obsolete (after an incredible run I may add) it just feels wrong to talk about $200-$300 Titan pricing doesn't it???


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> Hardocp is not a reliable source, anyone who saw the AMD press conference saw just how ignorant and plain stupid that guy from Hardocp was
> 
> not saying it cant be true but trust Hardocp is just decadent


Don't know haven't seen that press conference.. so far I always thought it was a pretty reliable source, uh. their benchmarks and even saw a few PSU reviews seems pretty legit to me.

The only thing that bother me is their color theme to be honest Lol.

Black/dark websites.. guhhhh good for the planet (cause white and bright uses the most, I read an article about how google being so visited should pretty much change their background, crazy isn't it).

But such a pain for the eyes..


----------



## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I dunno Skup, I still see Titans selling for $600+. I'd already decided to hang onto my Titans until big Maxwell next year but the window of getting a decent return on my Titans is nearly at an end and its making me a little nervous. I wonder how much an original Titan will fetch next year when the 980 is already out and big Maxwell is fixing to drop? $300? For some reason Titan seems like such a special card that even though I know it is very nearly obsolete (after an incredible run I may add) it just feels wrong to talk about $200-$300 Titan pricing doesn't it???


I sold my 580 for $200 right before the 780 came out, so $200-$300 for Titan sounds right.


----------



## rv8000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> Thats why im running a modded bios, my card during gaming stays at 1254mhz regardless of the load that is being placed on it and everything runs silky smooth.


I know and understand that is an option, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a detrimental feature to 99% of people who aren't going to go out and risk flashing their cards. Sadly though, they probably don't realize the issues that this can cause because chances are they've never experienced a setup like yours and these issues go unnoticed/overlooked.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I dunno Skup, I still see Titans selling for $600+. I'd already decided to hang onto my Titans until big Maxwell next year but the window of getting a decent return on my Titans is nearly at an end and its making me a little nervous. I wonder how much an original Titan will fetch next year when the 980 is already out and big Maxwell is fixing to drop? $300? For some reason Titan seems like such a special card that even though I know it is very nearly obsolete (after an incredible run I may add) it just feels wrong to talk about $200-$300 Titan pricing doesn't it???


Best offer iv'e had so far is $575... I'm thinking about letting ONE slip at that price, then buying up another one when they drop down to $400 or so.


----------



## provost

I would wait, before jumping the gun...








And, the new cards won't make anyone's Titan's any less useful than the utility these Titans (or any cards for that matter) are providing now. I want to see a generational leap in performance, before I dump my existing cards (mostly GK 104s/Gk110s and a lonely AMD in my sig rig... Way too concentrated in the gpu segment..







).


----------



## Princess Garnet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> Black/dark websites.. guhhhh good for the planet (cause white and bright uses the most, I read an article about how google being so visited should pretty much change their background, crazy isn't it).


I thought it was the opposite? At least with (CCFL) LCD panels, I thought I read that White used the least amount of power, as it had something to due with how LCDs work by naturally creating constant light anyway (so this is a constant base thing), and blocking the light in various ways to make colors, blocking it more for darker ones (which takes more power)? With CRTs that may have been true that brighter colors used more energy, but I thought it was the opposite with LCDs? I'm not sure if LED back-lit LCDs are different yet again though.


----------



## Chargeit

Yea, the more I look at it, the better the idea of getting a 2nd 780 sounds. I figure in a few weeks used they'll be dirt cheap, and even new they'll be given away. I'm moving to surround 1080p, so, if I do end up going 980 I'd need two of them. It's hard not to think I can add a 2nd 780 for $250 or so used, or new for what $350 maybe, compared to dropping $1,000 - $1,200 on two 980's (whatever they cost). Money I really don't want to spend.

I don't know. How are SLI 780's holding up for 3 monitor gaming? Does it sound like a smart idea to go SLI 780, and just ride the 9xx out? I don't really tend to play tons of graphically intense games, but, I like having the power when I need it. Single monitor doesn't worry me, since I still get great performance with the single 780 @ 1080p, but, I'm not fully sure what to expect with 3.


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> What kind of wattage does a 780 Ti suck down at 1400 core?
> My 750 Ti used if i remember correctly 85w when overclocked to 1400 core / 6400 Mem


Depends on the load, voltage and clock your card could reach, i've seen mine hitting 790W total system power off the wall. 780 Ti was at 1358/1900memory/1.34v core, cpu is 4770k @4.2ghz, ssd and optical drive.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> Also about the 780/780 Ti overclocking better than the 290/290X, what is the average OC for the 780 and 780 Ti? from what I've researched is that the 290 is around 1100-1150MHz, although I'm unsure about the 290X, I do recall for the 7950 that 1100-1150MHz was also somewhat in the normal range of average overclocks, and that was one hell of a card when overclocked.


Per my personal experience, not enough samples but here it is: 2 x 780 Ti classified and 2 x 290x lightning:

780 Ti: 1280 & 1358mhz (air; both were temperature-limited at the time, reaching 87c)
290x Lightning: 1230mhz -ish (air; both were voltage-limited at the time, +200mV, temps were way below throttling threshold)

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> Ugh the green light program needs to end, or at least there could be higher limits. It's hurting overclocking, AMD doesn't do it.


There are other 'unsupported' means available for nvidia GPUs


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Princess Garnet*
> 
> I thought it was the opposite? At least with (CCFL) LCD panels, I thought I read that White used the least amount of power, as it had something to due with how LCDs work by naturally creating constant light anyway (so this is a constant base thing), and blocking the light in various ways to make colors, blocking it more for darker ones (which takes more power)? With CRTs that may have been true that brighter colors used more energy, but I thought it was the opposite with LCDs? I'm not sure if LED back-lit LCDs are different yet again though.


Interesting, I'm not sure yea maybe that article I read was written in 1994, lol.


----------



## tajoh111

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flippin_waffles*
> 
> I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm adding a counter argument. I think it's not something many people will see as a buying point, since AIB partners already do a good job of handling temperature (heat, Watts, call it whatever you'd like) and noise. If these numbers are accurate, it appears that Maxwell is behind on perf/clock and need to jack up the clocks to get the performance they want. Are we sure that it doesn't spike up the power consumption at higher clocks? Weren't there rumors that NV was on a lower power process and how would that work up the stack? Perhaps that rumored 190W TDP is for, say, a 900MHz clock and they blow through that ceiling temporarily with a boost to get the performance rumored.


When he is speaking about heat, it's not the temperature of the GPU he's talking about, it's the heat that is generated and must be displaced somewhere, either it is in the case or the room. Sure these open air coolers keep the GPU itself at reasonable temperatures, but the reason why is because its efficient at transferring that heat away from the GPU itself to its surroundings. This means if your in an enclosed room, your going to feel the heat.

Efficiency has become a more important factor for GPU design because it ultimately determines how powerful you can make a card while remaining in PCI spec. I.e How much you can scale up an architecture to fit in a 300 watt envelope and 225watt or 375 etc. The more efficient the architecture, the bigger you can make the card or the higher you can clock it.

Additionally, the desktop market is shrinking and the laptop market is where a lot of that market has shifted too. With the limited capacity for heat dissipation and power consumption in laptops, performance per watt is everything.

It's funny when AMD fans talk about perf/clock. If this was the case, no one should be buying AMD CPU's. They are not only clocked higher than intel GPU's, they lose in performance, power and overclockability.

The thing is performance per clock is a useless measurement. If it meant anything we would be chastising AMD for having to clock their cards at 50% higher than nvidia cards for he last 2 or 3 generations during the fermi and g80 years. Cards have different amounts of components, shaders and the architectures are different. The clocks of a card don't matter, particularly as much as the headroom and the power consumption of a card.

If gm104 was clocked at 2 ghz, performed 10 percent better than a gtx 780 ti, while consuming 150 watts. Most of us would not be saying look at those high clocks. Most would be praising the efficiency and how the card clocks so high without drinking much power.

Similarly, if bulldozer competed for performance against Intel's best while having a 33% clock speed advantage, while consuming similar power to Intel's chips, we would be saying AMD is back. People wouldn't care about the clocks, all they care about is the performance and power consumption.

Bulldozer, particularly the fx 9590, represent inferior technology trying to shoehorn its way in, in the way your trying to imply flippin waffles for the gm204. That being, the CPU is being push to its limits(sky high power consumption and zero overclocking room) to catch up to the competition. It's being pushed past its design limits and the wheels are coming off of the axles. For the GM104, this would mean high power consumption, little overclocking room and a loud loud cooler.

But because bulldozer lost in every metric except price, we fear for AMD's future in CPU's. A good product can command a high price or premium as older Athlon 64x2 used to. One that is flawed must have its price adjusted to make it an appealing product to the public like bulldozer and most can tell, its just putting lipstick on a pig.

In addition, as this applies to both companies, i\it's okay to have a moving goal post as the market moves and shifts all the time. Nvidia's was all performance, regardless of power consumption at one point because it wanted to capture two markets at once. The professional market and the gaming market.

Fermi captured the performance crown last gen but at the expense of power consumption. Part of this power consumption was related to fermi's true strength which was professional application performance. It annihilated AMD for pro applications during that gen(never really losing and besting it by 30-120%).

http://hothardware.com/Reviews/NVIDIA-Unleashes-Quadro-6000-and-5000-Series-Workstation-GPUs-Review/?page=8

This is part of the reason Hawaii consumes so much power now. Things were added so it would perform significantly better at professional applications compared to its predecessor which struggled against a last gen fermi card.

http://hothardware.com/Reviews/Workstation-War-AMDs-FirePro-W9100-vs-Nvidias-Quadro-K6000/?page=3

AMD wanted to have some of the pro market because it is a high margin market and is still growing.

Still loses to k6000 generally but it isn't a blowout and they take home some wins in certain scenarios. Its a viable competitor with the value proposition AMD provides in this market.

Nvidia didn't improve nearly as much this time for professional applications and the difference between k6000 and 6000 is much less than you would expect considering the difference in terraflops. But it again had compromises. This time, Nvidia wanted to capture a third market which is why it needed increased efficiency. That is the supercomputing market. Supercomputers using chips like hawaii would need a totally different cooling system because they are simply too hot. Power consumption and heat are everything in this market. That is because most of the time these cards are indirectly cooled and power consumption has alot to do with operating costs.


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iSlayer*
> 
> 290 definitely over 780 for 4k. 780 Ti is a different story. 6GB of ram on a 780 is a bit pointless tbh. Way overkill.
> Care to say more? Never known HardOCP to be bad.
> There should be warnings to prevent that.


yah it's a bit overkill but since 3gb seem to barely cut it.. and you have to think for the future also most people don't upgrade every year, also I always have in mind to finish skyrim with tons of mods, and I heard that this is pretty VRAM intense, could speculate and say that a "hypothetical" Skyrim 2, even on 1080p, with mods, could easily fill 6GB, oh well maybe not that easily.

A friend had a problem with his 7970, he asked me, if you had enough money, which card would you get ? (knowing I could get the 780Ti eh) I said 780 6Gb, more future proof, even on 1080p! so he got a Strix, it's pretty badass I love it, was a pleasure to install for him ahha.

And needless to say for higher res and multiscreens, you always want more VRAM that you can think of, even if at the current state it doesn't seem to matter all that much.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> Hwbot lists the following as their averages on their website. I am making no claim to their validity.
> 
> 780 Ti - 1203 on air, 1328 on water.
> 
> 780 - 1183 on air, 1210 on water.
> 
> 290x - 1150 air, 1219 on water.
> 
> 290 - 1121 air, 1158 on water.


Validity wouldn't be super strong, since HWBot members are unlikely to publish their poor OC results. There's probably a fair amount of skew to that sample. Still, it's something


----------



## kuziwk

How can we guess this when the 880 hasn't been released yet and we know very little about that one?


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I dunno Skup, I still see Titans selling for $600+. I'd already decided to hang onto my Titans until big Maxwell next year but the window of getting a decent return on my Titans is nearly at an end and its making me a little nervous. I wonder how much an original Titan will fetch next year when the 980 is already out and big Maxwell is fixing to drop? $300? For some reason Titan seems like such a special card that even though I know it is very nearly obsolete (after an incredible run I may add) it just feels wrong to talk about $200-$300 Titan pricing doesn't it???


Oddly enough in the GPU rendering market, the mixture of 2688 Cuda cores and 6G Memory for scene files is keeping Titan very desirable still and likely one of the reasons I can fathom why the price is still higher than we all thought it would be at this point.

I want my own GPU render farm but the prospect of buying 12 Titan's at full price is daunting. My goal is a farm with 27K - 30K Cuda cores approximately and baby maxwell might fit nicely if it has 4GB memory and isn't too outrageously priced. this would give me damn near real-time photorealistic rendering with certain scenes.


----------



## carlhil2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I dunno Skup, I still see Titans selling for $600+. I'd already decided to hang onto my Titans until big Maxwell next year but the window of getting a decent return on my Titans is nearly at an end and its making me a little nervous. I wonder how much an original Titan will fetch next year when the 980 is already out and big Maxwell is fixing to drop? $300? For some reason Titan seems like such a special card that even though I know it is very nearly obsolete (after an incredible run I may add) it just feels wrong to talk about $200-$300 Titan pricing doesn't it???


I am going to keep my Titan, I'll move Big Maxwell into my gaming rig, keep the Titan with the 5960x and add another when I can get one for under $500.00...


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I dunno Skup, I still see Titans selling for $600+. I'd already decided to hang onto my Titans until big Maxwell next year but the window of getting a decent return on my Titans is nearly at an end and its making me a little nervous. I wonder how much an original Titan will fetch next year when the 980 is already out and big Maxwell is fixing to drop? $300? For some reason Titan seems like such a special card that even though I know it is very nearly obsolete (after an incredible run I may add) it just feels wrong to talk about $200-$300 Titan pricing doesn't it???


I've seen used titans sell @ $600 AUD a couple of times in the last 2-3 months. That's roughly $550 USD. The price seems to be tied to used 780 Ti prices for some reason, mostly because gamers see the Titan as a _lesser_ form of card than the full GK110 Ti cards (since gamers aren't using Double P or the 6gig buffer)


----------



## Zetzun

Hi, i want to add some information here, this is my first post but i've been reading this forum for a few years before i made my account.

Yesterday i contacted with a well-known online store here in Spain where i usually buy components. I have to say that they don't have any reference cards, they always only have the aftermarket versions of every GPU. I opened a ticket asking when they will have the new Nvidia serie on the store and that was the answer:
"Hi xxxx, as the manufacturer told us, they will be ready for the last few days of this month, the price is not confirmed yet"
So what that means is that is almost sure that the aftermarket versions will be launched this month.

Here you can see the store and you will see that we don't have reference cards here:
http://www.pccomponentes.com/tarjetas_graficas_nvidia_pci_express/gaming/

Sorry for any mistake, as i said i'm not a native speaker.


----------



## Menta

I know that store they are usually one of the first to get new products


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kuziwk*
> 
> How can we guess this when the 880 hasn't been released yet and we know very little about that one?


Because according to one likely-made-up rumor, 800 series is being skipped and what's being announced soon is 900 series.

I'm not sure I believe that rumor.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Because according to one likely-made-up rumor, 800 series is being skipped and what's being announced soon is 900 series.
> 
> I'm not sure I believe that rumor.


It's not just rumors. It's been mentioned by csr's of shops, it's listed in DISTRIBUTOR databases even as GTX 980/970. And we have rumors additionally supporting these facts.

99.9% chance it's a done deal. Not to mention it doesn't actually matter what they call them, it matters what's delivered. But we can be just this side of certain they are the GTX 900 series for desktop Maxwell this month.

I know your whole schtick on the forums is to act skeptical of anything and everything, but give it a rest.


----------



## Gorea

The 300 series was skipped, too. Skipping is nothing new or out of the ordinary.

Also, with this current naming scheme they never did a 100 series and started with 200.


----------



## skupples

People that don't care about efficient either still live under their parent's roof, live somewgere that power is part of rent or are loads of money. By this time next year we will be running quad-sli systems from 1x 1KW PSU and that's a big deal. It also improves the mini tower system capabilities. Being able to run SLI in hydron sized cases is epic.


----------



## vallonen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> yes exactly, but I hate to be a hater, though, but if you wanna go multi gpu I'd say go for AMD if you want to play on 4k multi GPU :
> 
> http://www.hardocp.com/article/2014/07/23/gtx_780_oc_6gb_vs_r9_290x_4gb_overclocked_at_4k/11#.VA9MOWNtxAk
> 
> "In all of our gaming we have shown you today, in every single game AMD CrossFire feels smoother to us than NVIDIA SLI. That's right, the tables have turned on this issue. In fact we experienced many situations where there was choppiness or stuttering with the two ASUS STRIX cards in SLI. It was noticeable, and when we switched to AMD R9 290X CrossFire; CrossFire just felt smoother. "
> 
> if you can't wait r9 290 OC ftw
> 
> sorry off topic also.. guess it's not totally off topic and sorry for talking bout amd in a nvidia thread uh no don't hate me I'm just quoting an article.


Could perhaps be boost clock that rears its ugly head hurting SLI performance?

It hurts performance when running a single card, I don't see the issue improving when adding a second card to the mix.

I'm just speculating here and I don't have a SLI setup to test on.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> Thats why im running a modded bios, my card during gaming stays at 1254mhz regardless of the load that is being placed on it and everything runs silky smooth.


I tried that when I had a 770, I managed to get my clock stable at 1220Mhz. What was interesting was that my temp dropped by almost 10C when it was under the bios mod. I guess that with boost clock disabled the card didn't suffer from temperature spikes either.

I have yet to try this on my current card. I'm a bit hesitant.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Don't trust me when I say that your computer's power usage is chump change compared to your air conditioner, run the numbers as I did in the previous post.
> 
> Are you really going to care that much that you spent thousands of dollars in order to make your power bill go from $400 to $390? You'd have to keep your new equipment for at least _four years PER CARD_ you run in order for that to actually save you any money, assuming a $500 cost per card. That means keeping your quad-SLI for *sixteen years* before replacing it.
> 
> Do you not see how the math just doesn't add up for a lower electric bill as a selling point?


Well holy crap, TIL one region's KwH price = everyone's KwH price.

Congrats on the cheap electricity rate.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Yes. It seems the only benefit of SMALL die 28nm maxwell is power efficiency and 5 maybe 10% performance upgrade. Taking what is likely an early engineering sample on crappy beta drivers as the end all be all holy grail of 980 is silly


Wait, what? Do you mean 750ti? Yeah, that was intended for low power draw, but it also wasn't intended to be a high-end, top of the line card. Whatever form the new *80 takes, it will be a high performance card. If all it does is drop TDP, then it will be a massive, massive failure.
Quote:


> No one ever considers the added heat when discussing power efficiency. Its extremely noticeable when your office is 90 degrees, which just causes the AC to work even more. Its like leaving a ei Dow open during the middle of Summer.


You do realize the heat savings per card is equivalent to running one fewer light bulb in your house, right? It's completely insignificant. It is *nowhere close* to leaving a window open.


----------



## vallonen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Not even close. One is tangible one is political!


Unless you're running your rig 24/7 or the mother of all bit-coin setups then I'd say no, not tangible at all really. Which means we're back to politics again.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Well holy crap, TIL one region's KwH price = everyone's KwH price.
> 
> Congrats on the cheap electricity rate.


What's your rate, then?

Even if you double the KWH cost, it _still_ doesn't add up. Doubling the electricity cost means that you'd have to run your rig for only two years per card to break even!

Again, efficiency without a performance increase is not a sufficient selling point for Maxwell. There *must* be a performance increase.

I can't imagine how people can actually be arguing otherwise.


----------



## Techboy10

I personally can't wait and don't care if it isn't "big maxwell." I'm finally going to upgrade my aging 560ti 1gb that I've had for 3.5 years and is suprisingly still going strong. Also going to upgrade my monitor as well (would really love a 34" 21:9 but they're still a little too $$$ for me unless the new AOC undercuts LG's price by a lot) and I can't wait to be blown away by the performance increase







.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Wait, what? Do you mean 750ti? Yeah, that was intended for low power draw, but it also wasn't intended to be a high-end, top of the line card. Whatever form the new *80 takes, it will be a high performance card. If all it does is drop TDP, then it will be a massive, massive failure.
> You do realize the heat savings per card is equivalent to running one fewer light bulb in your house, right? It's completely insignificant. It is *nowhere close* to leaving a window open.


is that a 120w incandescent or an LED light bulb? If that's an incandescent and I have 4 of them leaking heat I to my ACd environment... look I'm not telling people with 4 Titan to go by 4 of these new cards I'm trying to rationalize the gain of the product

We get it. You like to make obtuse arguments without factoring past present or future benefits of the long term goal of better efficiency. 980 will do what one of my titans will do (@1300 MHz via 350w), while consuming less than half the power and @ 200$ less than 780Ti MSRP. That isn't a failure by any stretch.

You think 980 is Nvidia's only Ace, when everyone else gets that they are just following the Kepler business model with this. Yet you still voice your opinion from a stand point of having ALL the data on 980, not from 2 bench marks from early engineering samples on poopy drivers.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> is that a 120w incandescent or an LED light bulb? If that's an incandescent and I have 4 of them leaking heat I to my ACd environment...
> 
> We get it. You like to make obtuse arguments without factoring past present or future benefits of the long term goal of better efficiency. 980 will do what one of my titans will do (@1300 MHz via 350w), while consuming less than half the power and @ 200$ less than 780Ti MSRP. That isn't a failure by any stretch.
> 
> You think 980 is Nvidia's only Ace, when everyone else gets that they are just following the Kepler business model with this. Yet you still voice your opinion from a stand point of having ALL the data on 980, not from 2 bench marks from early engineering samples on poopy drivers.


It doesn't matter what kind of light it is, only the wattage.

I'm not clear how it's an obtuse argument to say that it's stupid to buy something for $500 that will take you four years to break even on, when I'm certain you won't keep it for four years.

You still don't understand what I'm actually saying, please read my posts again and we might have an actually productive discussion. I am not claiming that 980 is the only ace. I'm not even basing this on the "leaked" benchmarks - I don't even BELIEVE the benchmarks. What I'm basing this on is a very basic calculation of just how insignificant the electricity savings is, and comparing that to the retail price.

"Just as good as what you have, but saves you a couple bucks a month" is not, should not, CANNOT get any sales. Anyone who thinks that will actually happen is ludicrously misguided.


----------



## skupples

what I would really love to see are metrics from Nvidiaof how many people are using what cards. steam survey is a joke it is a terrible place to gather that kind of information. according to steam survey I don't even exist..

I have been seeing a ton of people stating that they can't wait to buy a 500 780 ti or faster card to replace their aging 5 & 6 series mid to low end GPU.

if I had to guess I would say that the majority Nvidia customers don't own 7 at or above cards


----------



## orick

Is any one actually saying 980 performance is same as 780? I didn't think there is any need to speculate/argue over that.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orick*
> 
> Is any one actually saying 980 performance is same as 780? I didn't think there is any need to speculate/argue over that.


Yes, several people have said it won't be a performance increase over the existing generation, usually in comparison to 780 Ti, not 780, but still.

They're fools.


----------



## szeged

Even if Maxwell is 10% faster than a 780ti, I'll get one as long as they overclock well and scale with cold


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orick*
> 
> Is any one actually saying 980 performance is same as 780? I didn't think there is any need to speculate/argue over that.


Yes. People that are basing it off of the future mark submissions available in the OP story.

Nvidia isn't dumb. They obviously think they can get away with this, and I'm going to believe them over random forumites. Said forumites would be working for said company if they offered valuable insight towards the inner workings of these types things.

Seems NV was forced into another 28NM run, and they believe they can prodit off of another GK104>>GK110 type release cycle. If I had to guess, it won't be be very long until we see maxwell 2.0 hit the shelves... Which will either introduce a few 20nm SKUs OR the biggest 28NM chips man has ever seen.


----------



## iSlayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> yah it's a bit overkill but since 3gb seem to barely cut it.. and you have to think for the future also most people don't upgrade every year, also I always have in mind to finish skyrim with tons of mods, and I heard that this is pretty VRAM intense, could speculate and say that a "hypothetical" Skyrim 2, even on 1080p, with mods, could easily fill 6GB, oh well maybe not that easily.
> 
> A friend had a problem with his 7970, he asked me, if you had enough money, which card would you get ? (knowing I could get the 780Ti eh) I said 780 6Gb, more future proof, even on 1080p! so he got a Strix, it's pretty badass I love it, was a pleasure to install for him ahha.
> 
> And needless to say for higher res and multiscreens, you always want more VRAM that you can think of, even if at the current state it doesn't seem to matter all that much.


I wouldn't base my purchasing decisions based on Skyrim tbh.

Laptop GPUs are often made a joke out of for having excess VRAM because they don't have the horsepower to make any of that VRAM necessary.

Its the same for people chasing more VRAM now. 3GB @ 4k still does plenty.


----------



## orick

That's what I am saying, everyone expects 980 to be faster than 780 which it replaces. So there is no probable scenario of just as fast but uses less electricity. The question is if 980 will be faster than 780 Ti which it doesn't replace. It's likely that nvidia will put out a 980 Ti to replace that. So the question is valid.

nvidîa is a greedy company and this year has been a year of disappointments. So I am fully bracing for 980 to be same performance as 780 Ti or even a little lower. I hope that's not the case but I am prepared.


----------



## GoldenTiger

RUMOR:

Cards in reviewers' hands:

http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3287030270?pn=1

Forum translated says that he is working on his review now and it is a review sample... device ID begins with 13 from the new drivers for the 970 and lists 1664 cores. 13 SMM's * 128 cores per SMM = 1644, so it adds up.

The new device ID from public drivers matches as well for this 970. The 980 has ones beginning with 16 and 17 which would presumably mean 16 or 17 SMM's * 128 = 2176 or 2048 cores!? Wowza.

This matches the older leaks from coolaler.

Device ID NVIDIA_DEV.17C2 = "NVIDIA Graphics Device" is in drivers as well as one DEV.13C2 which matches this picture. This lends credence to a 17 SMM 980 part.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iSlayer*
> 
> I wouldn't base my purchasing decisions based on Skyrim tbh.
> 
> Laptop GPUs are often made a joke out of for having excess VRAM because they don't have the horsepower to make any of that VRAM necessary.
> 
> Its the same for people chasing more VRAM now. 3GB @ 4k still does plenty.
> I uh.
> 
> Well the nice thing about science is it doesn't matter what others believe, they're still wrong...


Quoted for 100% truth.


----------



## supergamer




----------



## Luck100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> RUMOR:
> 
> Cards in reviewers' hands:
> 
> http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3287030270?pn=1
> 
> Forum translated says that he is working on his review now and it is a review sample... device ID begins with 13 from the new drivers for the 970 and lists 1664 cores. 13 SMM's * 128 cores per SMM = 1644, so it adds up.
> 
> The new device ID from public drivers matches as well for this 970. The 980 has ones beginning with 16 and 17 which would presumably mean 16 or 17 SMM's * 128 = 2176 or 2048 cores!? Wowza.
> 
> This matches the older leaks from coolaler.
> 
> Device ID NVIDIA_DEV.17C2 = "NVIDIA Graphics Device" is in drivers as well as one DEV.13C2 which matches this picture. This lends credence to a 17 SMM 980 part.


Based on those numbers, it sounds like 970/980 are almost identical to 780/780ti at equal clocks. But we expect Maxwell to clock 10-20% higher, right?


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luck100*
> 
> Based on those numbers, it sounds like 970/980 are almost identical to 780/780ti at equal clocks. But we expect Maxwell to clock 10-20% higher, right?


Actually it sounds like they are each going to be +15% or so of their respective cards (780 for 970, and 780 ti for 980) to me







. The 3dmark #'s seem to correlate well with these numbers.

*By the way supergamer, those pics are stated to be a galaxy 770 in the thread.......* Google Translate is your friend







.


----------



## Luck100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Actually it sounds like they are each going to be +15% or so of their respective cards (780 for 970, and 780 ti for 980) to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . The 3dmark #'s seem to correlate well with these numbers.
> 
> *By the way supergamer, those pics are stated to be a galaxy 770 in the thread.......* Google Translate is your friend
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Ok, working the numbers for the GTX 970:

Each SMM has 90% the performance of one SMX. 13 SMM's in the GTX 970 should be equivalent to 0.9*13 = 11.7 SMX units = 11.7*192 = 2246 CUDA (Kepler) cores. Slightly less than the GTX 780 (2304 CUDA cores).


----------



## Menta

if the 970 is close to a 780,980 close to a 780ti, at least make their them cards OC better and priced very "low"


----------



## szeged

I really hope the 980 is a good 15% stronger than a780ti and can overclock extremely well. Also hope for non reference cards to appear fast.


----------



## Gorea

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iSlayer*
> 
> What kind of reasons might there be driving 97% of climate scientists to lie?


Money?


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Science doesn't involve human opinion, it involves objective testing. The theory is then based off of that testing.


Tell that to the global warming crowd...


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> RUMOR:
> 
> Cards in reviewers' hands:
> 
> http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3287030270?pn=1
> 
> Forum translated says that he is working on his review now and it is a review sample... device ID begins with 13 from the new drivers for the 970 and lists 1664 cores. 13 SMM's * 128 cores per SMM = 1644, so it adds up.
> 
> The new device ID from public drivers matches as well for this 970. The 980 has ones beginning with 16 and 17 which would presumably mean 16 or 17 SMM's * 128 = 2176 or 2048 cores!? Wowza.
> 
> This matches the older leaks from coolaler.
> 
> Device ID NVIDIA_DEV.17C2 = "NVIDIA Graphics Device" is in drivers as well as one DEV.13C2 which matches this picture. This lends credence to a 17 SMM 980 part.


Thanks, nice find!

I also went through the posts.
I hope this is fake...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luck100*
> 
> Ok, working the numbers for the GTX 970:
> 
> Each SMM has 90% the performance of one SMX. 13 SMM's in the GTX 970 should be equivalent to 0.9*13 = 11.7 SMX units = 11.7*192 = 2246 CUDA (Kepler) cores. Slightly less than the GTX 780 (2304 CUDA cores).


Thanks for that.
If this is real it's a little underwhelming.


----------



## mboner1

Has everyone that gave me crap for questioning the claims of a 30% performance increase for the 980 over a 780ti for the price of $499 came back down to reality yet and ready to admit they were wrong? Or are we now going to actually wait for the card to come out before making such ridiculous claims?


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> Has everyone that gave me crap for questioning the claims of a 30% performance increase for the 980 over a 780ti for the price of $499 came back down to reality yet and ready to admit they were wrong? Or are we now going to actually wait for the card to come out before making such ridiculous claims?


Those #'s are for equal clock speeds. Add in that maxwell will be clocked higher out of the gate, run cooler/quieter, and be $200 cheaper, as well as (if it remains like little maxwell) clock way higher under OC and it's going to be a huge deal still.


----------



## Stay Puft

I called 1920 and 1536 Maxwell cores for the 980/970 so i'm freaking close


----------



## Zipperly

Until we see some game benchmarks no one can claim anything much at the moment. I would like something new myself but might keep my 780 a little longer.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> RUMOR:
> 
> Cards in reviewers' hands:
> 
> http://tieba.baidu.com/p/3287030270?pn=1
> 
> Forum translated says that he is working on his review now and it is a review sample... device ID begins with 13 from the new drivers for the 970 and lists 1664 cores. 13 SMM's * 128 cores per SMM = 1644, so it adds up.
> 
> *The new device ID from public drivers matches as well for this 970. The 980 has ones beginning with 16 and 17 which would presumably mean 16 or 17 SMM's * 128 = 2176 or 2048 cores!? Wowza.*


If that's true that's quite a big gap between the GTX 970 and the GTX 980, a gap of 384-512 CUDA cores, 384 cores sounds slightly more plausible to me.
Between the GTX 670 and the GTX 680 there was a gap of 192 cores, a difference of one SMX unit, whilst the GTX 970 to GTX 980 would be 3-4 SMM units, 384-512 CUDA cores.








That could make place for a GTX 970 Ti.

StayPuft was damn close if this is true, he claimed 1536 CUDA cores.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> Until we see some game benchmarks no one can claim anything much at the moment. I would like something new myself but might keep my 780 a little longer.


We'll see. Facts seem to point towards, at the moment, 15% or so out of the box faster, and potentially the same oc-to-oc or more depending on if 750ti oc is indicative of 980 oc. Add in $200 less and it's a winner imo + 1gb ram + lower temps/power draw.


----------



## orick

Do you guys prefer to be pessimistic and be right 90% of the time. Or do you prefer to be optimistic and be right 10% of the time?


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> We'll see. Facts seem to point towards, at the moment, 15% or so out of the box faster, and potentially the same oc-to-oc or more depending on if 750ti oc is indicative of 980 oc. Add in $200 less and it's a winner imo + 1gb ram + lower temps/power draw.


Yes that would be just fine with me.


----------



## Gorea

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orick*
> 
> Do you guys prefer to be pessimistic and be right 90% of the time. Or do you prefer to be optimistic and be right 10% of the time?


I prefer to be a "realist".

So a pessimist?


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> If that's true that's quite a big gap between the GTX 970 and the GTX 980, a gap of 384-512 Cuda cores, 384 cores sounds slightly more plausible to me.
> Between the GTX 670 and the GTX 680 there was a gap of 192 cores, a difference of one SMX unit, whilst the GTX 970 to GTX 980 would be 3-4 SMM units


Yeah, it seems a little too big to me but if so the pricing gap is going to need to be more than 20% lower if you ask me, for it to be a reasonable buy.


----------



## orick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> If that's true that's quite a big gap between the GTX 970 and the GTX 980, a gap of 384-512 CUDA cores, 384 cores sounds slightly more plausible to me.
> Between the GTX 670 and the GTX 680 there was a gap of 192 cores, a difference of one SMX unit, whilst the GTX 970 to GTX 980 would be 3-4 SMM units, 384-512 CUDA cores.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That could make place for a GTX 970 Ti.
> 
> StayPuft was damn close if this is true, he claimed 1536 CUDA cores.


I am calling it right now, there will be a 970 Ti.


----------



## fleetfeather

I prefer the L.A.B. approach: Everything is hype



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Life After Bulldozer


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orick*
> 
> Do you guys prefer to be pessimistic and be right 90% of the time. Or do you prefer to be optimistic and be right 10% of the time?


Realistic and right 100% of the time


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Yeah, it seems a little too big to me but if so the pricing gap is going to need to be more than 20% lower if you ask me, for it to be a reasonable buy.


For real, I've had the GTX 970 on my wishlist but if it under delivers in my eyes I may just hold out.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orick*
> 
> I am calling it right now, there will be a 970 Ti.


I called it first!








1792-1920 CUDA cores for the GTX 970 Ti.


----------



## orick

So AMD has their x's and nVidia has their Ti's. All is right with the world.









Wonder when 960 will come out.


----------



## NoodleGTS

Until StarCraft 3 comes out in 20 years I have no reason to upgrade my GTX680


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> Realistic and right 100% of the time


That would indeed be ideal but its not realistic to be right 100% of the time either.


----------



## szeged

If everyone who has a different opinion than "some people" is automatically wrong, then these "red...I mean some people" are always right like they like to believe.


----------



## frag06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> *By the way supergamer, those pics are stated to be a galaxy 770 in the thread.......* Google Translate is your friend
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Edit: Post was corrected. The pictures are of the GTX 970.


----------



## szeged

Videocardz.... hahahaha.


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> That would indeed be ideal but its not realistic to be right 100% of the time either.


Yeah, I wasn't being serious, but given the choice that is what I would choose


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NoodleGTS*
> 
> Until StarCraft 3 comes out in 20 years I have no reason to upgrade my GTX680


Only 20?

I didn't know they were that far ahead of schedule. Source?

p.s. this is a joke


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> Yeah, I wasn't being serious, but given the choice that is what I would choose


Yes me too, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. Its all part of the game I guess.


----------



## supergamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frag06*
> 
> Videocardz has an article up saying it is the GTX 970. I at least thought they could read.


it's maxwell. not 770.

galaxy gtx770 4GB


----------



## krel

less heat is fairly important to me personally - I live in the Phoenix area, my office is on the north end of the house, and it gets hot in here. I'm hoping that the 980 is faster, but I also hope it's cooler. Guess we'll see soon.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tkenietz*
> 
> The heat savings will be pretty big. Not just for your card but for your entire pc. Less heat being pulled through your cpu rad. Even your psu releases around 20% as heat so if it pulls less..


No, it's *all* released as heat. Every single joule that's pulled from your outlet ends up as heat.

Put kill-a-watt in front of your power supply and measure wall draw, and that's the amount of heat your rig is dumping into the room it's sitting in.

The savings is still an insignificant number relative to the rest of your energy use as a whole.


----------



## tkenietz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Yeah, it seems a little too big to me but if so the pricing gap is going to need to be more than 20% lower if you ask me, for it to be a reasonable buy.


There are already several r9 290s available new for around $350. I think 970 will launch below $400. Also plays well with the "770 price drops to 275 inc" rumor. Moving it down to 760 territory to make room since there won't be a 960 yet


----------



## tkenietz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> No, it's *all* released as heat. Every single joule that's pulled from your outlet ends up as heat.
> 
> Put kill-a-watt in front of your power supply and measure wall draw, and that's the amount of heat your rig is dumping into the room it's sitting in.
> 
> The savings is still an insignificant number relative to the rest of your energy use as a whole.


Well yeah, watts = heat. But if you're pulling less you're creating less, and also (wording correctly this time) wasting less electricity as heat.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *supergamer*
> 
> it's maxwell. not 770.
> 
> galaxy gtx770 4GB


Thanks, I guess I misread the google translation earlier. Woot!


----------



## Alatar

I still think 1664 cuda cores is a weird number. Just can't get my head wrapped around anything other than 2560 cores for the full chip.

Then again since I wasn't going to buy GM204 in the first place I'd be happy if it came out with less cores and a smaller die size and still good performance. Only a good thing for the eventual GM200 cards that everyone wants. If a 1664 core maxwell with limited memory bandwidth can match a 780 then just think what GM200 will do.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> Has everyone that gave me crap for questioning the claims of a 30% performance increase for the 980 over a 780ti for the price of $499 came back down to reality yet and ready to admit they were wrong? Or are we now going to actually wait for the card to come out before making such ridiculous claims?


I haven't seen anyone seriously speculate 30% perf increases for GM204 in ages so I'm not sure who you were arguing against... Huge majority of the speculation has been about a 0-15% perf increase and a $500 price.


----------



## Sheyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> Until we see some game benchmarks no one can claim anything much at the moment. I would like something new myself but might keep my 780 a little longer.


Agree... If FPS is not improved much, time for me to focus on a new 6-core Haswell-E build...


----------



## zealord

come on 980 don't disappoint me









either good performance out of the box or extreme overclockability.

I could wait a few more months, but I don't want to


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> I still think 1664 cuda cores is a weird number. Just can't get my head wrapped around anything other than 2560 cores for the full chip.


I find it funny how the core and memory clocks of this alleged GTX 970 match up with what Videocardz posted the otherday.

Source - Baidu Tieba


Source - Videocardz


And guess what?
Quote:


> NVIDIA GTX 970 tested with Intel i7 3770K *and Intel i3 4130*


So what CPU did the person that posted the GTX 970 have?


Quote:


> *Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-4130 CPU @3.40GHz*


The GTX 970 scores which made their way into the graph by Videocardz, has a high likelihood of coming from the same person or people, what are the odds of having the exact same processor and the card with the same Core and Memory clock speeds?


----------



## zealord

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> I find it funny how the core and memory clocks of this alleged GTX 970 match up with what Videocardz posted the otherday.
> 
> Source - Baidu Tieba
> 
> 
> Source - Videocardz
> 
> 
> And guess what?
> So what CPU did the person that posted the GTX 970 have?
> 
> 
> The GTX 970 scores which made their way into the graph by Videocardz, has a high likelihood of coming from the same person or people, what are the odds of having the exact same processor and the card with the same Core and Memory clock speeds?






haha nice find


----------



## iSlayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orick*
> 
> Do you guys prefer to be pessimistic and be right 90% of the time. Or do you prefer to be optimistic and be right 10% of the time?


I think I prefer to not classify pessimists as some sort of depressed genius and optimists as naive, happy morons.


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> I find it funny how the core and memory clocks of this alleged GTX 970 match up with what Videocardz posted the otherday.
> 
> Source - Baidu Tieba
> 
> 
> Source - Videocardz
> 
> 
> And guess what?
> So what CPU did the person that posted the GTX 970 have?
> 
> 
> The GTX 970 scores which made their way into the graph by Videocardz, has a high likelihood of coming from the same person or people, what are the odds of having the exact same processor and the card with the same Core and Memory clock speeds?


So what u say ? Smaller on purpose performance or what ?


----------



## i7monkey

What are they trying to prove with this crippled performance?


----------



## XT-107

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> What are they trying to prove with this crippled performance?


that *Enthusiasts* will pay 1k$ again for full chip







.


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> What are they trying to prove with this crippled performance?


sadly that they can beat AMD with something this small


----------



## Defoler

I still remember the hype of the GTX 680
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XT-107*
> 
> that *Enthusiasts* will pay 1k$ again for full chip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


They will pay 1000$ for titan 2 and then 1000$ for titan 2 black and then 1000$ for titan 2 super duper edition and then 1000$ for titan 2 the ultimate edition.
And eventually they will pay 1000$ for titan 3, just 2 weeks later.

Some people will never be happy until they have enough power to support 3x4K 144hz at 288 fps, and even then they will find something they need to upgrade to


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Defoler*
> 
> I still remember the hype of the GTX 680
> They will pay 1000$ for titan 2 and then 1000$ for titan 2 black and then 1000$ for titan 2 super duper edition and then 1000$ for titan 2 the ultimate edition.
> And eventually they will pay 1000$ for titan 3, just 2 weeks later.


Nah.

That's why you buy EVGA, and use step-up









(yes, I know you have to step-up to a new GPU)


----------



## Alatar

http://videocardz.com/52259/galaxy-geforce-gtx-970-gc-pictured

970 at least cant be pulling much power since they're getting away with the short reference PCB.


----------



## frag06

Anyone notice the 1/17/2014 date on the 3DMark score?


----------



## Alatar

http://wccftech.com/maxwell-geforce-gtx-970-alleged-specs-leak-shots/


----------



## CalinTM

So what will be a gab between 970 and 980 ?







Thats good. Means the 970 price will be low.

Also between 670 and 680 wasn't a huge gap, and i didnt liked it...


----------



## tajoh111

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Defoler*
> 
> I still remember the hype of the GTX 680
> They will pay 1000$ for titan 2 and then 1000$ for titan 2 black and then 1000$ for titan 2 super duper edition and then 1000$ for titan 2 the ultimate edition.
> And eventually they will pay 1000$ for titan 3, just 2 weeks later.
> 
> Some people will never be happy until they have enough power to support 3x4K 144hz at 288 fps, and even then they will find something they need to upgrade to


The gtx 680 had no hype. That's partially why it snuck in and the card booted AMD in the face. Most people thought myself included it would be around 7950 speed as previous gxx60 cards had done.

The card was only supposed to be a midrange card as was previous gx104 cards. However when AMD underdelivered(which was hyped), it open the doors for the gtx 680 name and the spike in price.


----------



## specopsFI

Please, for the love of all things, Nvidia: don't put that garbage reference cooler on the 980. Some premium Titan style goodness for the new "flagship", thank you!


----------



## nyxagamemnon

My Guess the Big Die will be 3200 Cores 8GB 512Bit.


----------



## Coach Mcguirk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tajoh111*
> 
> The gtx 680 had no hype. That's partially why it snuck in and the card booted AMD in the face. Most people thought myself included it would be around 7950 speed as previous gxx60 cards had done.
> 
> The card was only supposed to be a midrange card as was previous gx104 cards. However when AMD underdelivered(which was hyped), it open the doors for the gtx 680 name and the spike in price.


Yeah-no. The GTX 680 had plenty of hype. Dunno what rock you've been hiding under.


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyxagamemnon*
> 
> My Guess the Big Die will be 3200 Cores 8GB 512Bit.


Yeah about that. And the price will be bigger than 780 Ti launch day u know..


----------



## kingduqc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> 
> 
> http://wccftech.com/maxwell-geforce-gtx-970-alleged-specs-leak-shots/


I can already hear the reviews talking day in day out about the low power consomsion and the price while performence is stagnant for 2 years now. 400$ and titan like performen was there 18 months ago with 7950 selling at 200 a pop but we get to save 9$ a month (maybe less in the winters since it would actually help heating the room.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Coach Mcguirk*
> 
> Yeah-no. The GTX 680 had plenty of hype. Dunno what rock you've been hiding under.


Actually not much was hyped up about it until after the 7970 was released and nvidia saw how it performed, AFTER that the hype did indeed begin. I had both cards too, 7970 at the start which I sold off for a GTX 680 and then later when the 7970 got those miracle drivers which really opened it up I went back to the 7970.

If I had to pick between the two cards today it would be the 7970 all over again, the drivers really changed the game for that card.


----------



## tajoh111

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Coach Mcguirk*
> 
> Yeah-no. The GTX 680 had plenty of hype. Dunno what rock you've been hiding under.


The hype sort of came after this article.

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/01/19/nvidia-kepler-vs-amd-gcn-has-a-clear-winner/

Before this, no one was expecting it to beat the 7970 initially. People thought it was going to be your typical gxx60 launch.

When charlie writes a positive article about Nvidia when he clearly doesn't want to, it typically true which came as a shocker.

No one thought the gk104 was going to be a flagship.

Alot of people were saying, particularly before the reviews, its going to be launched at 499, no way is the card faster. If it was faster, Nvidia would be charging more than AMD because they like to rape consumers.

After the launch, AMD was left scrambling for months afterwards, shelves for filled with 7970s and 7950s and gtx 680 were rare.


----------



## Alatar

Did some quick math, please do point out if I got anything wrong:



Die size seems to be *just under 400mm^2*

E: the GM204 pic is not perfect, it's not from straight above the GPU so there's a small piece of PCB showing which will skew the results but not by much.


----------



## Roelv

It's disappointing to see the same old connectors at the back. I am really hoping some cards will have multiple DP outputs.


----------



## salamachaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Did some quick math, please do point out if I got anything wrong:
> 
> 
> 
> Die size seems to be *just under 400mm^2*
> 
> E: the GM204 pic is not perfect, it's not from straight above the GPU so there's a small piece of PCB showing which will skew the results but not by much.


I think this could be accurate within about 10% either way.


----------



## mouacyk

So what can the 35% bigger area translate into?


----------



## CalinTM

Hidden cores









No really, no specs about 980.....well...need to wait another week for official thingy


----------



## Menta

970 performance in the middle of the 780 and 780ti is not bad that, by logic the 980 will out perform the 780 ti easy.

these leaks are legit?


----------



## CalinTM

Nothing is legit, until u see 970 and 980 on nvidia's site







and select specs.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mouacyk*
> 
> So what can the 35% bigger area translate into?


the core cluster is now 128 cores instead of 192 cores, which is assumed to be due to the intent of shrinking maxwell into 20nm. IE: you need more space because the cluster is less dense?


----------



## CasualCat

http://www.techpowerup.com/205106/galaxy-geforce-gtx-970-pictured-specs-confirmed-early-benchmarks-surface.html


----------



## skupples

wait, aren't those the pictures which were confirmed to be 770 screenshots? I mean, TPU can't even use auto-translate? sigh...


----------



## PhilWrir

Unlocked

Please please please keep this on topic everyone...


----------



## orick

Man why did you guys have to go and get thread locked. I couldn't get my rumour fix and was getting the shakes.

Anyway, if 970 is on similar pcb as 760, there is a chance I can find one short enough to fit in my case. Awesome.

Any idea when 960 would come out?


----------



## szeged

im surprised at how little threads have gotten locked so far, in the weeks before the 290x release we had a thread mortality rate of almost 100%.


----------



## Gorea

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> im surprised at how little threads have gotten locked so far, in the weeks before the 290x release we had a thread mortality rate of almost 100%.


The AMD fanboys have been relatively mellow the past few months (past year, really); I remember a year or more ago they trolled super hardcore and now they seem like nice guys by comparison.


----------



## skupples

No one else finds it the slight bit suspect that TPU doesn't even include a link to the source? The source that says its a GTX770, via auto-translate? jeesh, these guys are getting REALLY desperate.

"will be as efficient as the 760!" WOW, GREAT SUMMATION TPU! YOU WIN TECH REPORTER OF THE YEAR! Right next to IGN, which gave your story 12/10 score!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorea*
> 
> The AMD fanboys have been relatively mellow the past few months (past year, really); I remember a year or more ago they trolled super hardcore and now they seem like nice guys by comparison.


Were you around during the pre-release days of titan, and early days of Club Titan? My lord... I.. I... I can't even comment.


----------



## szeged

well its hard to troll when you consistantly get shut down and proven wrong after every post you make


----------



## hwoverclkd

that's why i bought both products so I will know who talks fact and who talks crap


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acupalypse*
> 
> that's why i bought both products so I will know who talks fact and who talks crap


I almost always try both high end cards from amd and nvidia before making a personal decision about which one I will keep.


----------



## Gorea

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Were you around during the pre-release days of titan, and early days of Club Titan? My lord... I.. I... I can't even comment.


I started reading this forum a little bit after Titan release, so I missed pre-Titan, but I've seen plenty after it's release, though.









The trolls were so dedicated, they actually made paintings (some well done MS paint/photoshop classics) to express their anger.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorea*
> 
> I started reading this forum a little bit after Titan release, so I missed pre-Titan, but I've seen plenty after it's release, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The trolls were so dedicated, they actually made paintings (some well done MS paint/photoshop classics) to express their anger.


Just remember. It is my, Zedged's, & Occamrazor's fault that GPUs now sell for over $600.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorea*
> 
> I started reading this forum a little bit after Titan release, so I missed pre-Titan, but I've seen plenty after it's release, though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The trolls were so dedicated, they actually made paintings (some well done MS paint/photoshop classics) to express their anger.


the days leading up to titan, and the weeks following titan were a warzone.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Just remember. It is my, Zedged's, & Occamrazor's fault that GPUs now sell for over $600.


lololol, titan team go!


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorea*
> 
> The AMD fanboys have been relatively mellow the past few months (past year, really); I remember a year or more ago they trolled super hardcore and now they seem like nice guys by comparison.


May be, just may be, because they don't have to anymore.


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> I haven't seen anyone seriously speculate 30% perf increases for GM204 in ages so I'm not sure who you were arguing against... Huge majority of the speculation has been about a 0-15% perf increase and a $500 price.


Nice trying to change the goal posts once it looks like this card won't reach the results a lot of people in here were predicting. The comments I'm referring to were in reply to myself when I questioned it, and a lot of the comments have been deleted, it was only 2 days ago mate.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> Nice trying to change the goal posts once it looks like this card won't reach the results a lot of people in here were predicting












It looks like nothing of the kind, because none of these numbers can be trusted.


----------



## MURDoctrine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> Nice trying to change the goal posts once it looks like this card won't reach the results a lot of people in here were predicting. The comments I'm referring to were in reply to myself when I questioned it, and a lot of the comments have been deleted, it was only 2 days ago mate.


LOL I've been following this whole debacle and I saw the post you are referring to. People have been speculation 20-30% increase for the past week or more on these rumor threads. I'm going to be upgrading off of a 670 FTW that won't overclock for crap even under water with a modded bios so these will be amazing for me.


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MURDoctrine*
> 
> LOL I've been following this whole debacle and I saw the post you are referring to. People have been speculation 20-30% increase for the past week or more on these rumor threads. I'm going to be upgrading off of a 670 FTW that won't overclock for crap even under water with a modded bios so these will be amazing for me.


Exactly, not the 0-15% Alatar is claiming people were claiming.


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MURDoctrine*
> 
> LOL I've been following this whole debacle and I saw the post you are referring to. People have been speculation 20-30% increase for the past week or more on these rumor threads. I'm going to be upgrading off of a 670 FTW that won't overclock for crap even under water with a modded bios so these will be amazing for me.


Me too - going from a pair of air cooled 670s to probably three watercooled 980s. Should be fun.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MURDoctrine*
> 
> LOL I've been following this whole debacle and I saw the post you are referring to. People have been speculation 20-30% increase for the past week or more on these rumor threads. I'm going to be upgrading off of a 670 FTW that won't overclock for crap even under water with a modded bios so these will be amazing for me.


They have been? That's news to me, as I've been following these threads pretty closely and the most I've seen people speculate is around 15% give or take 5.


----------



## Wihglah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> They have been? That's news to me, as I've been following these threads pretty closely and the most I've seen people speculate is around 15% give or take 5.


There was more than 1


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> They have been? That's news to me, as I've been following these threads pretty closely and the most I've seen people speculate is around 15% give or take 5.


15 is the MOST you have seen? Plenty of people were speculating 30% performance increase over a 780ti lol for $499. Here's just 1 I have dug up, plenty more like it.. And a lot of others have been deleted.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MapRef41N93W*
> 
> 25-35% is insignificant? The 780ti is already 10-15% better than a 290.
> 
> .


----------



## SuprUsrStan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Gorea*
> 
> The AMD fanboys have been relatively mellow the past few months (past year, really); I remember a year or more ago they trolled super hardcore and now they seem like nice guys by comparison.
> 
> 
> 
> May be, just may be, because they don't have to anymore.
Click to expand...

Yeah, about 14 months ago, the GK110 hadn't been launched yet and it was the GTX 680 vs 7970. Then nvidia handed it to AMD with the GK110, both the 780 and then the Ti. With nvidia being on top for a whole year and then firing the first shot and no news of the 390X You wonder why they've been mellow.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> 15 is the MOST you have seen? Plenty of people were speculating 30% performance increase over a 780ti lol for $499. Here's just 1 I have dug up, plenty more like it.. And a lot of others have been deleted.


No wonder you think people are saying 30% when every time someone writes 30 you think it's about the 780ti to 980 difference.

Read the conversation leading up to that post and then read that post as well. It's referencing the supposed perf difference between the 290 and 980. Not 780ti and 980.

so that post too is essentially saying 10-15%.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marc79*
> 
> From the benchmarks, clock for clock the 980 is pretty much equal to 780 Ti, while being more efficient ofcourse and 4GB vram vs 3GB.


I thought it showed it was 10% better at base clock speeds for both cards... I guess if you're looking for like 50%+ performance gains, 10% isn't a lot, but I _don't_ know what you're looking for.


----------



## Marc79

I'm not looking for anything, just stated that clock for clock they're equal. I'm not buying a new gpu for at least a year or 2.


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> so that post too is essentially saying 10-15%.


That post was essentially saying 20- 25% over a 780ti actually.

I said people are kidding themselves if they think they will get a 30% increase over a 780ti for $499. Plenty of people laughed and said make sure I come back here when that happens. What don't you understand? I'm not saying you said it, but plenty of people did, don't try and speak for them and act like everyone claimed a marginal performance increase. Everyone was talking it up like these cards were going to be fantastic performers @ a fantastic price. From the latest descriptions they sound like they will be decent , not great, and the price is still unknown.


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marc79*
> 
> I'm not looking for anything, just stated that clock for clock they're equal. I'm not buying a new gpu for at least a year or 2.


Oh. Okay. I didn't mean like shopping = looking, I meant maybe you're one of those people who gets his kicks from performance upgrades... Sorry to bug you.


----------



## Marc79

Nah, as long as games play fine, I'm good. I'll start thinking about an upgrde once 'next gen' games become difficult to run on medium/high settings with playable frames.


----------



## omarh2o

so these benchmarks are just based on rumored clock speeds? I would like to see a comparison when both the 980 and 780ti are clocked to the same speed, since the 780ti classy can hit up to 1350 I can assume the 980 can overclock to similar speeds. Depending on the performance difference when both are clocked at the same speeds, if the 980 performs significantly faster (25-30%) ill consider upgrading, if not then the titan 2 or the 980ti needs to come sooner . Power consumption was never an issue for me, so personally I don't care if its 200 or 600, Performance>efficiency


----------



## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Marc79*
> 
> Nah, as long as games play fine, I'm good. I'll start thinking about an upgrde once 'next gen' games become difficult to run on medium/high settings with playable frames.


Groovy


----------



## StrongForce

I already said that in another thread but what people don't realise is even if it's 10% over a Ti that's alot, because, there will be overclocked models and those will be clockable too ! (hopefully pretty high..)


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> That post was essentially saying 20- 25% over a 780ti actually.
> 
> I said people are kidding themselves if they think they will get a 30% increase over a 780ti for $499. Plenty of people laughed and said make sure I come back here when that happens. What don't you understand? I'm not saying you said it, but plenty of people did, don't try and speak for them and act like everyone claimed a marginal performance increase. Everyone was talking it up like these cards were going to be fantastic performers @ a fantastic price. From the latest descriptions they sound like they will be decent , not great, and the price is still unknown.


I'm gonna have to agree with this, I saw a couple of people say that the performance will be of a substantial increase, but there was also a fair share of people who said there would be 5-15% or so.
We don't really know how well the 970 or the 980 will perform as nothing has been confirmed as of yet, however these leaks are quite interesting.


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> Yeah, about 14 months ago, the GK110 hadn't been launched yet and it was the GTX 680 vs 7970. Then nvidia handed it to AMD with the GK110, both the 780 and then the Ti. With nvidia being on top for a whole year and then firing the first shot and no news of the 390X You wonder why they've been mellow.


Being on top, being on bottom... it's all relative to their respective strategic position.....








Truth be told, these two have more in common., in terms of the challenges ahead, than
childish fans on the forums....... And, this always amazes me; to any company in the consumer retail space selling you products, you are nothing but a "transaction", why would you not reciprocate the same sentiment, instead of being a pro bono brand advertiser? ...lol This is just a general observation.

There was no "wondering" , at least on my part, in my post above.


----------



## Menta

http://www.techpowerup.com/205126/msi-teases-geforce-gtx-970-gaming-with-twinfrozr-v.html










beauty


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/205126/msi-teases-geforce-gtx-970-gaming-with-twinfrozr-v.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beauty


I have to admit I actually like the whole dragon theme MSI has going (I know others don't), but whatever next card(s) I get I want to put water blocks on them anyhow so I'd lose the fancy theme. I can only dream they'd team up with EK for a Dragon Army water block, but I'm sure it'd have an outrageous price.

*Edit* not that you'd be able to see most of it anyhow since I have a tower and the interesting bits of the cooler or even block face towards the floor. Maybe I need to get a case in which the motherboard lays flat like a CaseLabs


----------



## Menta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CasualCat*
> 
> I have to admit I actually like the whole dragon theme MSI has going (I know others don't), but whatever next card(s) I get I want to put water blocks on them anyhow so I'd lose the fancy theme. I can only dream they'd team up with EK for a Dragon Army water block, but I'm sure it'd have an outrageous price.
> 
> *Edit* not that you'd be able to see most of it anyhow since I have a tower and the interesting bits of the cooler or even block face towards the floor. Maybe I need to get a case in which the motherboard lays flat like a CaseLabs


yep sometimes its really a shame they face down









maybe a pci extension cable and a little mod


----------



## Princess Garnet

I'm not a fan of it, and the Red would clash with my Blue/White/Black theme, haha. I'll probably look at what ASUS or EVGA have to offer. I'm looking to go non-reference this time though.


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> yep sometimes its really a shame they face down
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> maybe a pci extension cable and a little mod


yeah. TBH my "large" case already feels a bit cramped to be doing any modding.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Princess Garnet*
> 
> I'm not a fan of it, and the Red would clash with my Blue/White/Black theme, haha. I'll probably look at what ASUS or EVGA have to offer. I'm looking to go non-reference this time though.


Well that can be a problem. My current setup is actually a color hodgepodge. I went from blue accents in a white case before to red accents since I didn't see any blue boards I wanted this time and didn't want to give Asus business on their white board. I still need to change the cable and tubing colors. The tubing would have been easy, but I figured what was the point until I also changed the cables which is the expensive part. I think I may use more neutral cable coloring next time (like white) so that the other colors are more flexible.


----------



## Princess Garnet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CasualCat*
> 
> Well that can be a problem. My current setup is actually a color hodgepodge. I went from blue accents in a white case before to red accents since I didn't see any blue boards I wanted this time and didn't want to give Asus business on their white board. I still need to change the cable and tubing colors. The tubing would have been easy, but I figured what was the point until I also changed the cables which is the expensive part. I think I may use more neutral cable coloring next time (like white) so that the other colors are more flexible.


I'm still running an older Sandy Bridge with an ASUS Blue board, and recently got Blue rounded SATA cables (I did consider White). I love the looks, and don't need/plan on changing the platform out for some time (Skylake at the absolute earliest, but maybe even later). The case/fans are mostly Black and White. My current graphics card is a reference EVGA GeForce GTX 560 Ti, which has a pale-ish Tan/Yellow bit to it on the sticker on the side, and it's not bad, but I want to get a neutral graphics card to make it more closely match. I'm hoping to get a nuetral-ish colored aftermarket one.


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/205126/msi-teases-geforce-gtx-970-gaming-with-twinfrozr-v.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> beauty


Cad Drawing....


----------



## Menta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MunneY*
> 
> Cad Drawing....


so? this will be identical to the real thing.


----------



## zealord

Wow I really like that Twin Frozr V. I hope the cooling and noise are as good as it is beautiful


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Wow I really like that Twin Frozr V. I hope the cooling and noise are as good as it is beautiful


Please go back a few pages, find the source TPU is referencing without linking to it. You will know you have found the right post because it includes the same pictures. Auto translate calls it a new 770.


----------



## slyce

It seems that the biggest PC parts retailer here in our country has some more information regarding the new cards. https://www.facebook.com/pchub?fref=nf

Looking at the GTX 970/980-related post and the comments below, not only is there a shot of a Zotac 970, what's most interesting to me are the price ranges of the cards with the 980 being about the same price as the 780Ti here in our country and the 970 priced slightly lower than a stock 780. Nothing is confirmed though, but I guess the $500 price for the 980 may not be true after all?


----------



## The Source

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> I already said that in another thread but what people don't realise is even if it's 10% over a Ti that's alot, because, there will be overclocked models and those will be clockable too ! (hopefully pretty high..)


10% is not a lot and would barely even be noticeable if we were talking about trying to maintain 60fps which where the average gamer is sitting right now, monitor wise. Not to mention you seem to forget that the 780 ti is also overclockable, and highly at that. That 10% won't change with any kind of standard overclocking.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slyce*
> 
> It seems that the biggest PC parts retailer here in our country has some more information regarding the new cards. https://www.facebook.com/pchub?fref=nf
> 
> Looking at the GTX 970/980-related post and the comments below, not only is there a shot of a Zotac 970, what's most interesting to me are the price ranges of the cards with the 980 being about the same price as the 780Ti here in our country and the 970 priced slightly lower than a stock 780. Nothing is confirmed though, but I guess the $500 price for the 980 may not be true after all?


From that link:


----------



## Mand12

Yeah...this one I'll believe.


----------



## Alatar

Also the card is really tiny. Around the same size as normal custom versions of the 750Ti.


----------



## fleetfeather

Haha, not buying a GM104 chip for GK110 prices.

Regardless of the performance benchmarks that are or aren't to be believed, there's a principle issue here; you don't pay full-chip prices for a gimp-chip card.


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Haha, not buying a GM104 chip for GK110 prices.
> 
> Regardless of the performance benchmarks that are or aren't to be believed, there's a principle issue here; you don't pay full-chip prices for a gimp-chip card.


And if the 104 chip is only sold at, say, $750, and the 110 chip is only sold at $1250, what do you do then? Refuse to buy anything, I guess? Nvidia has decided that we'll pay more and more, and they're right, because we do.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krel*
> 
> And if the 104 chip is only sold at, say, $750, and the 110 chip is only sold at $1250, what do you do then? Refuse to buy anything, I guess? Nvidia has decided that we'll pay more and more, and they're right, because we do.


you wait for AMD to start playing the game (so prices get more realistic), or you vote with your wallet and sit out.

edit: I'd be interested to see how NV predicts this would sell at such a high price-point (if the price-point is to be believed). It is, after all, 28nm.


----------



## Alatar

GK110 owners are probably best off waiting for GM200 anyway. At which point AMD's next gen high end parts should also be out.


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krel*
> 
> Nvidia has decided that we'll pay more and more, and they're right, because we do.


This guy gets it.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> This guy gets it.


As I hinted at, if you don't provide:

a) compelling upgrade performance, or:
b) compelling price point

how do you expect to move units? Surely we're missing something here....


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krel*
> 
> And if the 104 chip is only sold at, say, $750, and the 110 chip is only sold at $1250, what do you do then? Refuse to buy anything, I guess? Nvidia has decided that we'll pay more and more, and they're right, because we do.


Not this guy, if it ever comes to this I will get a PS4 and call it a day.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> From that link:


GTX 970 Hawk? Pleaseeeee MSI


----------



## vallonen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> From that link:


Looks like the 560 PCB all over again I think I'll pass.

Besides. I'm happy with my sig card, in any case, if I ever feel I need more power I'll get the R9 295X2 and be over and done with it for a while.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Also the card is really tiny. Around the same size as normal custom versions of the 750Ti.


Wait...that *is* a tiny board. I wouldn't expect a *70 to be that small.

There's got to be more to this story.


----------



## Gorea

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Wait...that *is* a tiny board. I wouldn't expect a *70 to be that small.
> 
> There's got to be more to this story.


Maybe it is very power efficient? /shrug

The higher clocked models will have longer PCBs I'm pretty sure.


----------



## hurleyef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Wait...that *is* a tiny board. I wouldn't expect a *70 to be that small.
> 
> There's got to be more to this story.


The 670 had a short PCB.


----------



## Drakenxile

so essentially the 980 is a oc'ed 780ti?


----------



## vallonen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hurleyef*
> 
> The 670 had a short PCB.


Putting one of these mutilated cards in a system just wouldn't look right, the proportions are off.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> From that link:


Ahahahaha, slyce and Alatar is source.


http://videocardz.com/52282/zotac-geforce-gtx-970-pictured-the-ultimate-proof-there-are-no-800-series


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> Ahahahaha, Alatar is source.
> 
> 
> http://videocardz.com/52282/zotac-geforce-gtx-970-pictured-the-ultimate-proof-there-are-no-800-series


no actually "someone" is


----------



## TopicClocker




----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> you wait for AMD to start playing the game (so prices get more realistic), or you vote with your wallet and sit out.
> 
> edit: I'd be interested to see how NV predicts this would sell at such a high price-point (if the price-point is to be believed). It is, after all, 28nm.


Yeah, no way am I paying $650+ each for these cards.... at this point I may even just get one 970 if it's $400 as that facebook post is talking about and ride it out until GM200







. If they include a game bundle I can sell the game from, I will grab two, otherwise.... I don't know whether I'll even bite on a second.


----------



## fleetfeather

slyce, world famous GPU leaker


----------



## GoldenTiger

From the facebook:

"PCHub Price range:
GTX 980 : 31-34k
GTX 970 : 19-22k"

That is in PHP currency. Convert to USD and lower by ~$30 USD to account for overseas prices usually being higher, and we arrive at pricing of $400 USD roughly and $650-700, for the GTX 970 and GTX 980 respectively. Looks like a pair of custom 970's for me if a game bundle is present but even that I am slightly loathe to do since these seem overpriced for what they are.... heck, may even get one for now and wait a couple of weeks to see if I can get a second at a nice sale price.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> snip


Also worth pointing out that people who called out VC on their "800 series is being skipped" article should probably reconsider judging articles based on the site name.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Also worth pointing out that people who called out VC on their "800 series is being skipped" article should probably reconsider judging articles based on the site name.


For real!

The benchmarks are a bit weird though, the leak from Baidu Tieba matches up with their benchmarks on that graph too well, CPU, GPU and Core and memory clocks.
They've got some serious inside sources!

People can be a little biased when it comes to some websites, it's best to approach things with an open mind.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> From the facebook:
> 
> "PCHub Price range:
> GTX 980 : 31-34k
> GTX 970 : 19-22k"
> 
> That is in PHP currency. Convert to USD and lower by ~$30 USD to account for overseas prices usually being higher, and we arrive at pricing of $400 USD roughly and $650-700, for the GTX 970 and GTX 980 respectively. Looks like a pair of custom 970's for me if a game bundle is present but even that I am slightly loathe to do since these seem overpriced for what they are.... heck, may even get one for now and wait a couple of weeks to see if I can get a second at a nice sale price.


That sounds good, if the cost in USD is roughly 400$ I'm sure in GBP it would be around £300-329.

I just hope it performs well.


----------



## specopsFI

Just so that we're clear: I'm not paying 780Ti prices for GM204.









I'm quite alright with similar performance than 780Ti, if it comes with lower power consumption, lower noise and lower price. Take one of those away and I'm not buying it. Seriously, $500 is already asking a lot, but at $650 you can just forget about it. I really hope these 980 price rumors are false.


----------



## escalibur

I want to be famous too, VCz, anyone?









http://imaxagency.de/shop/details.php?art=155042&artname=%2F%2FASUS+STRIX-GTX970-DC2OC-4GD5&lang=de





http://www.compunator.de/shop/details.php?art=155042&artname=%2F%2FASUS+STRIX-GTX970-DC2OC-4GD5

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:tAkZxJ8A-dwJ:coretech.co.za/products.php+&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk



http://sidex.ru/view.php?id=427270


----------



## zealord

lol if those rumoured prices are true, I am not only disappointed but mad


----------



## pbvider

Say what?600 euro + for the GTX 980?Ok...u can keep it Nvidia.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Over at a thread in overclock.net a photo appeared *from a user called Alatar*, basically a distributor posted some stuff on GeForce GTX 970 and 980, and he apparently included a photo of the GeForce GTX 970 from Zotac. Other then the photo there are no specs or anything, but its looking to be a nice little card.


http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/zotac-geforce-gtx-970-photo.html

I'm not even the original OCN source source... slyce is...


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/zotac-geforce-gtx-970-photo.html
> 
> I'm not even the original OCN source source... slyce is...


LOL yeah... props for being upfront even tho the sites are crediting you.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/zotac-geforce-gtx-970-photo.html
> 
> I'm not even the original OCN source source... slyce is...


quick quick, speculate on performance! become the _Gibbo of OCN_!


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> quick quick, speculate on performance! become the _Gibbo of OCN_!


Hahahahaa







!


----------



## TopicClocker

Nice one slyce!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> quick quick, speculate on performance! become the _Gibbo of OCN_!


GTX 970 (1920 CUDA cores), and the GTX 980 (2176 CUDA cores).
(15 and 17, 2 SMM unit difference)

GTX Banana = 2560 CUDA cores.

I'm kidding, I believe the GTX 980 will have the largest core amount it's small die permits.


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/zotac-geforce-gtx-970-photo.html


They should also add "A user by the name of mboner1 nailed it when he said "These cards would be overpriced and under performing" , although he is not surprised considering nvidia's fanbase consider "Not buying 2, but limiting it to 1 card" as showing their unhappiness with the price and performance of this card " lol


----------



## Princess Garnet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *specopsFI*
> 
> Just so that we're clear: I'm not paying 780Ti prices for GM204.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm quite alright with similar performance than 780Ti, if it comes with lower power consumption, lower noise and lower price. Take one of those away and I'm not buying it. Seriously, $500 is already asking a lot, but at $650 you can just forget about it. I really hope these 980 price rumors are false.


Those are roughly my thoughts. None of this is confirmed yet though, so let's wait and see. If these are true though, then wow, whatever happened since about the GeForce 400 or 500 series (last I really paid attention to GPUs) really messed up pricing on nVidia's side...


----------



## hurleyef

Bollocks. If that pricing is correct, I might as well grab one of these discount 780ti's. I very much hope it isn't, I don't think I can justify more than about $600.


----------



## escalibur

Palit from Russia: http://sidex.ru/view.php?id=427270

JetStream too:


----------



## fleetfeather

Jacob is was lurking









editz


----------



## Menta

so same performance and same price


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> so same performance and same price


Bases on what? assumptions?


----------



## Menta

based on all the rumors so far


----------



## escalibur

Galaxy card will probably stay black as the name is 'Black will' (or whatever the proper tranlsation might be)?

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=zh-CN&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdetail.zol.com.cn%2Fvga%2Findex388504.shtml&edit-text=


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> based on all the rumors so far


Rumors are just that though.... rumors.


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> Bases on what? assumptions?


Based on a photo with the price as 572 pounds for a 970 , a photo of the card and some new benchmarks. It's hardly concrete evidence but you have to admit it is heading towards being very underwhelming. They certainly don't appear to be leading with their strongest cards or hitting the right price point.


----------



## zealord

for the love of god AMD please release something


----------



## Glottis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> Based on a photo with the price as 572 pounds for a 970 , a photo of the card and some new benchmarks. It's hardly concrete evidence but you have to admit it is heading towards being very underwhelming. They certainly don't appear to be leading with their strongest cards or hitting the right price point.


it's euros. most likely a "placeholder" price by a retailer or just that retailer listed it much more expensive because they can. but we'll know everything in under a week.


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Glottis*
> 
> it's euros.


Ah right. Well I guess $740 US is better than $930.. Still makes the 970 about 30% more expensive than what people were hoping the 980 would be.


----------



## Menta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> Rumors are just that though.... rumors.


i would say at this point its a little more than just rumors, all the threads so far are rumors, we can all only comment and assume i suppose...

i believe in this so far unless Nvidia is hacking a grand plan to through everyone off their scent ....


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> Based on a photo with the price as 572 pounds for a 970 , a photo of the card and some new benchmarks. It's hardly concrete evidence but you have to admit it is heading towards being very underwhelming. They certainly don't appear to be leading with their strongest cards or hitting the right price point.


True based off what we have so far it is underwhelming but I have also learned not to believe everything I see on the internet either. Guess its a wait until official reviews hit before we can be 100 percent sure.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> for the love of god AMD please release something


once AMD gets DVR up to par, I could simply go red


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> for the love of god AMD please release something


A 500mm gpu taped out several months ago. People assumed it was for AMD, guess we will see in a few months


----------



## Stay Puft

Still thinking the 970 will come in at 399.99 and battle the 290 where the 980 comes in at 499-549.99 to battle the 290X


----------



## mboner1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> A 500mm gpu taped out several months ago. People assumed it was for AMD, guess we will see in a few months


This one?

http://diit.cz/clanek/amd-synapse-500mm-gpu


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Still thinking the 970 will come in at 399.99 and battle the 290 where the 980 comes in at 499-549.99 to battle the 290X


I sure hope that ends up being the case... we'll see in one week for sure!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Also worth pointing out that people who called out VC on their "800 series is being skipped" article should probably reconsider judging articles based on the site name.


You know, even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Also worth pointing out that people who called out VC on their "800 series is being skipped" article should probably reconsider judging articles based on the site name.


I didn't judge it based on the site name, I judged it because it (still) sounds weird to skip it.


----------



## andre02

From the benchmarks in the first page everything seems to be going the same as before: GTX980 is 30% faster than stock GTX780(stock is 863-900mhz) it replaces and 10% faster than 780Ti. About the price , i didn't read the conversation, but i think prices at launch will be high as usual but hopefully get more towards 550$(like the 580 and 680) and less towards 650$ like the 780 was.

Is there anything clear if they will be on the 28nm process or the 20nm ?


----------



## escalibur

http://videocardz.com/52282/zotac-geforce-gtx-970-pictured-the-ultimate-proof-there-are-no-800-series


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *escalibur*
> 
> http://videocardz.com/52282/zotac-geforce-gtx-970-pictured-the-ultimate-proof-there-are-no-800-series


Holy...









You were serious!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *escalibur*
> 
> I want to be famous too, VCz, anyone?


----------



## frag06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *escalibur*
> 
> http://videocardz.com/52282/zotac-geforce-gtx-970-pictured-the-ultimate-proof-there-are-no-800-series


Hahahaha!


----------



## HeadlessKnight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/zotac-geforce-gtx-970-photo.html
> 
> I'm not even the original OCN source source... slyce is...


lol


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Over at a thread in overclock.net a photo appeared *from a user called Alatar*, basically a distributor posted some stuff on GeForce GTX 970 and 980, and he apparently included a photo of the GeForce GTX 970 from Zotac. Other then the photo there are no specs or anything, but its looking to be a nice little card.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/zotac-geforce-gtx-970-photo.html
> 
> I'm not even the original OCN source source... slyce is...
Click to expand...

LOL - you're on the spotlight!


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> for the love of god AMD please release something


wait till get they get back from vacation


----------



## Alatar

http://videocardz.com/52276/msi-shows-off-geforce-gtx-980-gaming-with-twin-frozr-v-cooler


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://videocardz.com/52276/msi-shows-off-geforce-gtx-980-gaming-with-twin-frozr-v-cooler


I really dig that card. Hope the prices floating around are wrong

Edit : But this is not the G1 Gaming card the MSI guy mentioned is it?


----------



## flippin_waffles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acupalypse*
> 
> wait till get they get back from vacation


https://twitter.com/GChip/status/509556960883404801


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *escalibur*
> 
> http://videocardz.com/52282/zotac-geforce-gtx-970-pictured-the-ultimate-proof-there-are-no-800-series


That is funny.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://videocardz.com/52276/msi-shows-off-geforce-gtx-980-gaming-with-twin-frozr-v-cooler


Quote:


> We have new photos of GTX 970 GAMING taken *with the highest quality potato camera.*


----------



## escalibur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> Holy...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You were serious!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frag06*
> 
> Hahahaha!


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://videocardz.com/52276/msi-shows-off-geforce-gtx-980-gaming-with-twin-frozr-v-cooler
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> We have new photos of GTX 970 GAMING taken *with the highest quality potato camera.*
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

lololol


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mboner1*
> 
> This one?
> 
> http://diit.cz/clanek/amd-synapse-500mm-gpu


Yep. The 350mm one seems to be Tonga so the 500mm GPU is probably legitimate too


----------



## FlyingSolo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *specopsFI*
> 
> Please, for the love of all things, Nvidia: don't put that garbage reference cooler on the 980. Some premium Titan style goodness for the new "flagship", thank you!


I agree with you on that. I want some Titan style cooler.


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Source*
> 
> 10% is not a lot and would barely even be noticeable if we were talking about trying to maintain 60fps which where the average gamer is sitting right now, monitor wise. Not to mention you seem to forget that the 780 ti is also overclockable, and highly at that. That 10% won't change with any kind of standard overclocking.


well let's hope it's 10% more than a fully overclock 780Ti then, oh and these prices.. yea, and then in 6 months they release the Ti and drop the prices, sounds about right ?


----------



## y2kcamaross

I'll be picking up 2 if priced @ $499.99, and 0 if priced @ $649.99


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> I'll be picking up 2 if priced @ $499.99, and 0 if priced @ $649.99


Same here.


----------



## StrongForce

I might be tempted to save for a 980oc if it's arround 500 (which according to some website it's not) otherwise I feel like waiting to see what AMD have to offer, meh, not sure how long that would be though, lol.

Or simply snipe a 290 on ebay ..altought that doesnt seem much of an upgrade for my hd 7950


----------



## staryoshi

The new twin-frozr design is delicious.


----------



## nemm

if the prices thrown about are true then I wont be running sli 980 from the off as planned,
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> I'll be picking up 2 if priced @ $499.99, and 0 if priced @ $649.99


Likewise, ripoff Britain prices equate to £310+tax sounded fine although cheaper would obviously be better but that is wishful thinking and if it does come in at £400+tax then ill be getting a cheap stopgap card until prices drop to what I consider more acceptable levels.


----------



## FlyingSolo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nemm*
> 
> if the prices thrown about are true then I wont be running sli 980 from the off as planned,
> Likewise, ripoff Britain prices equate to £310+tax sounded fine although cheaper would obviously be better but that is wishful thinking and if it does come in at £400+tax then ill be getting a cheap stopgap card until prices drop to what I consider more acceptable levels.


I think for us UK prices will be around £450 that's if the gtx 980 is $499 hope am wrong tho.


----------



## CalinTM

I.....WANT....MY.....980 LIGHTNING MSI.....NOW !!!!!

I...HAVE...MONEY.....READY.........


----------



## Menta

Msi is also tired of waiting, i guess they will announce and launch the cards on the same day even ...

Not crazy so far but i guess who skipped the 700 series, this could be interesting but still disappointing price wise but lets wait and see


----------



## vallonen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nemm*
> 
> if the prices thrown about are true then I wont be running sli 980 from the off as planned,
> Likewise, ripoff Britain prices equate to £310+tax sounded fine although cheaper would obviously be better but that is wishful thinking and if it does come in at £400+tax then ill be getting a cheap stopgap card until prices drop to what I consider more acceptable levels.


We always get ripped off in England. Could have been worse though, we could have lived in Australia.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> Or simply snipe a 290 on ebay ..altought that doesnt seem much of an upgrade for my hd 7950


Seriously? the 290 will trounce the 7950. I had a 7970 that was overclocked to 1250 on the core and then later went with a 290X which clocked to 1200mhz, it simply smashed my old 7970 in everything that I played and even at stock speeds would out do my overclocked 7970.

7950's are going for about $125-$150 on ebay and 290's for $240-$250. So for around $100.00 out of pocket you could have yourself a very nice upgrade.


----------



## nemm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vallonen*
> 
> We always get ripped off in England. Could have been worse though, we could have lived in Australia.


The Welsh get ripped off also as do Scotland and NI. damn you VAT









The only way I will contemplate a 980 at £450 and be willing to accept the romoured price will be if the gap between 970 and 980 performance wise is as large as the romoured prices and it beats the 780ti by at least 15% running stock.


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> 
> 
> Msi is also tired of waiting, i guess they will announce and launch the cards on the same day even ...
> 
> Not crazy so far but i guess who skipped the 700 series, this could be interesting but still disappointing price wise but lets wait and see


Naah, price will be good. Also i hope the MSI guys have in the very close future, some info ant ETA about the Lightning model, cuz thats whats really matter in terms of implementation. Rest of implementations are "puff"


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> Seriously? the 290 will trounce the 7950. I had a 7970 that was overclocked to 1250 on the core and then later went with a 290X which clocked to 1200mhz, it simply smashed my old 7970 in everything that I played and even at stock speeds would out do my overclocked 7970.
> 
> 7950's are going for about $125-$150 on ebay and 290's for $240-$250. So for around $100.00 out of pocket you could have yourself a very nice upgrade.


I know it beats it, but the question is the 10-20 fps boost releveant ??

EDIT: actually found a review with the 7950 on anandtech and it's more like 30 fps in some games let's say 20-30 since mine is oc


----------



## Gorea

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> I know it beats it, but the question is the 10-20 fps boost releveant ??


Depends what the fps is to begin with, of course.

If you are at the ~40 range, then every tiny increase matters and is noticeable; while if you're at 60-70 fps it won't be a deal (unless you're on 120hz+), obviously.


----------



## vallonen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> I know it beats it, but the question is the 10-20 fps boost releveant ??


It is if it gets you above 60 FPS. 60 FPS is bare minimum, anything below means a nice slideshow.

Ninja edit.
Note to self. Reload the page before hitting post.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Also worth pointing out that people who called out VC on their "800 series is being skipped" article should probably reconsider judging articles based on the site name.


I called them out on it due to the nature of their story, not because I didn't believe them.

I called them out because they attempted to rationalize & legitimize previous stories with silly claims with newer stories referencing the older stories as still being legit.. "Nvidia just magically decided to change the name, and they told us about it first"

cuz maxwell was revealed at gamescom!


----------



## StrongForce

yes, well all games runs 60+ except bf4 which is only sometimes, it's not on ultra though







, but the 7950 was just a temporary solution I really wanted to see what maxwell can do !


----------



## i7monkey

I bought a 780 for $649, sold it for $450, bought a 780Ti for $699, and sold it for $550. I basically rented the 780/780Ti for $600 to play for a year.

I've already wasted money, but why the hell would I waste my time buying a $500 sidegrade like the 980? What extra performance is it going to give me? 10%?

I'd buy a 980 if it was $349. Anything else would be a waste of time.


----------



## Gorea

Remember though, nothing has been officially released, so don't freak out yet. Save your anger for the official release a week from now.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> I bought a 780 for $649, sold it for $450, bought a 780Ti for $699, and sold it for $550. I basically rented the 780/780Ti for $600 to play for a year.
> 
> I've already wasted money, but why the hell would I waste my time buying a $500 sidegrade like the 980? What extra performance is it going to give me? 10%?
> 
> I'd buy a 980 if it was $349. Anything else would be a waste of time.


How comes you got rid of your 780s? Do you not have time to use them?


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> 
> 
> http://videocardz.com/52276/msi-shows-off-geforce-gtx-980-gaming-with-twin-frozr-v-cooler


So , what can we see? the only thing that jumps out at me is a 8+6 Power delivery.

6 pin PEG connector can deliver 75W of 12V power to the graphics card.

8 pin PEG connector can deliver 150W of 12V power to the graphics card.

I know this is somewhat shallow but it's all we have, so are we looking at a base 225W card without the PCI slot? I ask, as power delivery is not my specialty and how this relates to GPU's OC etc...


----------



## szeged

guys breaking news, gtx 980 finally pictured, this is not fake, this is not photoshopped, videocardz.com has already confirmed these are real before they even saw them.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







obviously its an engineering sample because of the green pcb and i dont think they have all the components on just yet, look at those 5 six pin power connectors this thing must be a beast, also look at all those vram chips. I cant tell what the writing on the die says because its too small but it must be nvidia code for the gpu core.

so exciting.


----------



## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> How comes you got rid of your 780s? Do you not have time to use them?


I'm a GPU addicted degenerate that apparently likes to waste money









I don't blow my money on just anything though. I skipped the 680 series because I was pissed that it was midrange, I skipped Titan because of the price, and jumped on the 780 when it came out. Then I jumped on the 780Ti.

I'm a fan of big chips, which is why the rumors of the 980 being midrange and barely having a performance increase over the 780Ti is pissing me off.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> 
> 
> Msi is also tired of waiting, i guess they will announce and launch the cards on the same day even ...
> 
> Not crazy so far but i guess who skipped the 700 series, this could be interesting but still disappointing price wise but lets wait and see


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> Naah, price will be good. Also i hope the MSI guys have in the very close future, some info ant ETA about the Lightning model, cuz thats whats really matter in terms of implementation. Rest of implementations are "puff"


This looks like it would match my ROG VII Gene really well, the new cooler looks neat.
The colour scheme in my case went a bit weird after I got the VII Gene, I had Red and Blue LEDs with a Yellow MSI Hawk Card.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nemm*
> 
> The Welsh get ripped off also as do Scotland and NI. damn you VAT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only way I will contemplate a 980 at £450 and be willing to accept the romoured price will be if the gap between 970 and 980 performance wise is as large as the romoured prices and it beats the 780ti by at least 15% running stock.


I'm in for a 970 if it's between £300-329.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> I know it beats it, but the question is the 10-20 fps boost releveant ??
> 
> EDIT: actually found a review with the 7950 on anandtech and it's more like 30 fps in some games let's say 20-30 since mine is oc


I had no problem either getting as much as 30fps more with my 290X compared to my HD 7970 and that was with both clocked up as high as I could get them. Like I told you man, if you sold your 7950 on ebay for what they are currently going for you could snag a 290 for about $100.00 out of pocket which is really nice considering how much faster a 290 is over a 7950.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> So , what can we see? the only thing that jumps out at me is a 8+6 Power delivery.
> 
> 6 pin PEG connector can deliver 75W of 12V power to the graphics card.
> 8 pin PEG connector can deliver 150W of 12V power to the graphics card.
> 
> I know this is somewhat shallow but it's all we have, so are we looking at a base 225W card without the PCI slot? I ask, as power delivery is not my specialty and how this relates to GPU's OC etc...


Those are just guide lines... 6 & 8pin can deliver MUCH MORE power than their rated values.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> guys breaking news, gtx 980 finally pictured, this is not fake, this is not photoshopped, videocardz.com has already confirmed these are real before they even saw them.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> obviously its an engineering sample because of the green pcb and i dont think they have all the components on just yet, look at those 5 six pin power connectors this thing must be a beast, also look at all those vram chips. I cant tell what the writing on the die says because its too small but it must be nvidia code for the gpu core.
> 
> so exciting.


Half Life 3 Confirmed!

Source: VC.com via OCN.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> guys breaking news, gtx 980 finally pictured, this is not fake, this is not photoshopped, videocardz.com has already confirmed these are real before they even saw them.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> obviously its an engineering sample because of the green pcb and i dont think they have all the components on just yet, look at those 5 six pin power connectors this thing must be a beast, also look at all those vram chips. I cant tell what the writing on the die says because its too small but it must be nvidia code for the gpu core.
> 
> so exciting.


lols, you're now famous

wccftech.com/geforce-gtx-980-pcb-leaked


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> I'm a GPU addicted degenerate that apparently likes to waste money
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blow my money on just anything though. I skipped the 680 series because I was pissed that it was midrange, I skipped Titan because of the price, and jumped on the 780 when it came out. Then I jumped on the 780Ti.
> 
> I'm a fan of big chips, which is why the rumors of the 980 being midrange and barely having a performance increase over the 780Ti is pissing me off.


Aha, I see.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Half Life 3 Confirmed!
> 
> Source: VC.com via OCN.












Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> lols, you're now famous
> 
> wccftech.com/geforce-gtx-980-pcb-leaked


Damn, I feel for that.


----------



## cstkl1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> So , what can we see? the only thing that jumps out at me is a 8+6 Power delivery.
> 
> 6 pin PEG connector can deliver 75W of 12V power to the graphics card.
> 8 pin PEG connector can deliver 150W of 12V power to the graphics card.
> 
> I know this is somewhat shallow but it's all we have, so are we looking at a base 225W card without the PCI slot? I ask, as power delivery is not my specialty and how this relates to GPU's OC etc...


Check @OccamRazor sig abt this.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> guys breaking news, gtx 980 finally pictured, this is not fake, this is not photoshopped, videocardz.com has already confirmed these are real before they even saw them.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> obviously its an engineering sample because of the green pcb and i dont think they have all the components on just yet, look at those 5 six pin power connectors this thing must be a beast, also look at all those vram chips. I cant tell what the writing on the die says because its too small but it must be nvidia code for the gpu core.
> 
> so exciting.


LMAO
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> I'm a GPU addicted degenerate that apparently likes to waste money
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blow my money on just anything though. I skipped the 680 series because I was pissed that it was midrange, I skipped Titan because of the price, and jumped on the 780 when it came out. Then I jumped on the 780Ti.
> 
> I'm a fan of big chips, which is why the rumors of the 980 being midrange and barely having a performance increase over the 780Ti is pissing me off.


Looks like you might be picking up a 780Ti again, huh?


----------



## Gorea

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> lols, you're now famous
> 
> wccftech.com/geforce-gtx-980-pcb-leaked


omg


----------



## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> LMAO
> Looks like you might be picking up a 780Ti again, huh?


Heh....no. I`m trying to wait for GM200.


----------



## vallonen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> guys breaking news, gtx 980 finally pictured, this is not fake, this is not photoshopped, videocardz.com has already confirmed these are real before they even saw them.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> obviously its an engineering sample because of the green pcb and i dont think they have all the components on just yet, look at those 5 six pin power connectors this thing must be a beast, also look at all those vram chips. I cant tell what the writing on the die says because its too small but it must be nvidia code for the gpu core.
> 
> so exciting.


Damn Southerners I say, that actually made me smile.









For that alone some +rep your way.


----------



## Redeemer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> I'm a GPU addicted degenerate that apparently likes to waste money
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't blow my money on just anything though. I skipped the 680 series because I was pissed that it was midrange, I skipped Titan because of the price, and jumped on the 780 when it came out. Then I jumped on the 780Ti.
> 
> I'm a fan of big chips, which is why the rumors of the 980 being midrange and barely having a performance increase over the 780Ti is pissing me off.


Bwuahhaha there is no escaping the Milking your all coming with me!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> guys breaking news, gtx 980 finally pictured, this is not fake, this is not photoshopped, videocardz.com has already confirmed these are real before they even saw them.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> obviously its an engineering sample because of the green pcb and i dont think they have all the components on just yet, look at those 5 six pin power connectors this thing must be a beast, also look at all those vram chips. I cant tell what the writing on the die says because its too small but it must be nvidia code for the gpu core.
> 
> so exciting.


OMG thats a picture from my dreams last night....how the....








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Heh....no. I`m trying to wait for GM200.


Dont try, buy !


----------



## kingduqc

Come to think about it, titan will be 20 months old when the 980 release and they'll still be withing 15-20%. So 20 months+ what ever how long(9m?) the 980 is going to be top dog in *2.5 years* we would not get more then 20% performance improvement. It's half the price but damn.


----------



## Maintenance Bot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> guys breaking news, gtx 980 finally pictured, this is not fake, this is not photoshopped, videocardz.com has already confirmed these are real before they even saw them.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> obviously its an engineering sample because of the green pcb and i dont think they have all the components on just yet, look at those 5 six pin power connectors this thing must be a beast, also look at all those vram chips. I cant tell what the writing on the die says because its too small but it must be nvidia code for the gpu core.
> 
> so exciting.


Judas priest holy mary mother of god I want one


----------



## Menta

AMD had a good run these last few months, now its Nvidia turn...









the cycle continues just saying


----------



## fleetfeather

Hmmm, I'd actually agree with that (for whatever that's worth, haha)... Their marketing is trash - that's a given - but they appear to be going HAM in the gpu dept.

As I said earlier, I'd be all over an AMD card if they got their DVR/GVR thing on par with Shadowplay.


----------



## Alvarez

So, what's the most recent bench, should i be sorry and cry in the corner because it's not even a month since my 780ti classy purchase ?


----------



## Menta

if these rumors are true on the price performance aspect sadly wont be getting a card, just not willing to spend cash like that and then in about 6 months or even less a ti comes out and blows everything away on the 210, 20mm and so on.

Maxwell does more (equal) with less, thats all that i can see right now, its getting clear they are holding back on maxwells true performance

i will settle fine with a cheap 780 second hand or 290 till then.


----------



## mcg75

Cleaned.

Please stay on topic.


----------



## rv8000

If the 970 can match 290/780 performance at stock, and have high oc headroom with good efficiency I will definitely be picking one up just to play with more than anything.

To some of the posts about tonga and the taped out die rumors for it and another chip a few post back, I have a feeling we could see a response from AMD much sooner than we think, though it most likely won't be an overwhelming performance jump but it may push out big maxwell sooner.


----------



## orick

So what's a decent cheap stop gap card if this gen doesn't pan out? Is R9 270 good value?


----------



## szeged

750ti or r9 290


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orick*
> 
> So what's a decent cheap stop gap card if this gen doesn't pan out? Is R9 270 good value?


GTX770 is dropping to $275, but I mean... 980/970 are likely not the only releases.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> 750ti or r9 290


I wish msi would build a 750 Ti hawk


----------



## szeged

they released a guide on how to volt mod the 750ti, pretty much the same thing


----------



## Menta

Wonder why no one has said anything on the 960 gtx, the 760 gets pounded by the the 280x, pretty much the same price in my country, msi 280x oc 267 euros. 760 gtx around 235


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> Wonder why no one has said anything on the 960 gtx, the 760 gets pounded by the the 280x, pretty much the same price in my country, msi 280x oc 267 euros. 760 gtx around 235


There's a hundred dollar difference between a 280X and a 760 in the states


----------



## fleetfeather

Used 660 could do as a stop gap. Should be cheaper than a 750Ti


----------



## Seraphic

Putting off my 5960X build until Q1 2015. Maybe by then, some REAL high-end videos cards will be out.


----------



## Nilin404

I bought all the parts for my mitx build with a Bifenix Prodigy ITX case except the gpu.

Mobo - asus z97I-plus
CPU - i5 4690K using it for gaming only.
Memory - Kingston 16 gb ddr3 1600.
Cooling - Cooler Master Hyper X evo 212.
PSU - Corsair RM 650w Full modular.
Fans - NB-eloop B12-4 120mm 2400rpm X 5.
SSD - Samsung evo 120 gb
HDD- Seagate 2 TB

GPU - GTX 980????????


----------



## frag06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> There's a hundred dollar difference between a 280X and a 760 in the states


It's closer to $70 for quality cards. If you want to go a little cheaper, Sapphire has a $250 280X and a $270 Tri-X OC 280X.

Most quality 760's are around the $250 - $260 price point.


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seraphic*
> 
> Putting off my 5960X build until Q1 2015. Maybe by then, some REAL high-end videos cards will be out.


^This.


----------



## Maintenance Bot

I have not followed a gpu release in a while. Im sure you all could answer this but what are the driver's like upon launch? I mean does Nvidia usually have a new or better or more robust driver's after a gpu launch to have the new cards perform even better?


----------



## Menta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> There's a hundred dollar difference between a 280X and a 760 in the states


http://www.pcdiga.com/2/11941/Grafica-MSI-R9-280X-TwinFrozr-OC-3GB-R9-280X-GAMING-3G
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> There's a hundred dollar difference between a 280X and a 760 in the states


http://www.pcdiga.com/2/11941/Grafica-MSI-R9-280X-TwinFrozr-OC-3GB-R9-280X-GAMING-3G

http://www.pcdiga.com/2/10898/Grafica-MSI-GTX760-2GB-N760-TF-2GD5-OC

Same brand comparison, there is just no way the 760 can compete. That's why I found it odd, Nvidia not launching a 960 on the fly


----------



## Seraphic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> ^This.


Not only that, DDR4 will be cheaper.


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Its the cycle.
> 
> 7970 release->680 release
> Titan release->290x release
> 980-release->???
> 
> Also its a strange situation because its again 28nm.We dont know what will happen in the future. Nvidia choose 28nm maybe amd is waiting for 20nm


Again, the 500mm GPU that taped out alongside Tonga. Since there hasn't been any news of anything else it's probably Iceland.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frag06*
> 
> It's closer to $70 for quality cards. If you want to go a little cheaper, Sapphire has a $250 280X and a $270 Tri-X OC 280X.
> 
> Most quality 760's are around the $250 - $260 price point.


760 gaming - 219
280X gaming - 289

So around 70 is correct.


----------



## Zipperly

I'd hit up ebay if i was going to get a 280X.. they go for around $150.00 there which is a lot of bang for the buck.


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seraphic*
> 
> Not only that, DDR4 will be cheaper.


Not only that, i dont think AMD will let Nvidia have all the fun for too long (read: new card/nice price adjustments).


----------



## Seraphic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> Not only that, i dont think AMD will let Nvidia have all the fun for too long (read: new card/nice price adjustments).


Like a 8GB Radeon R9 390X?


----------



## Menta

bad experience on the ATI 1900 xtx keeps me away. But I guess one day I will risk it just not now I think


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seraphic*
> 
> Like a 4GB Radeon R9 390X?


FTFY, I wonder when they'll release that?

I'd like NVIDIA to hurry up and release GM210 sooner than later.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> bad experience on the ATI 1900 xtx keeps me away. But I guess one day I will risk it just not now I think


Huh? that was during a time when ATI absolutely ruled. I had that card and loved it, drivers were rock solid too. I remember how jealous my friend was when he saw his 7800GTX getting smacked around by that card.

Other than that card everything else I had with ATI was a good experience. I loved the HD 5870 when it came out and the HD 7970 as well. Im not sure how crossfire drivers are at the moment but single gpu drivers for ATI have been pretty solid from my personal experience.


----------



## Menta

Nah poor Performance, over heated like crazy, so noisey, throttled like hell, things did get a tad better when I mounted a artic cooler but ultimately died a few months later


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> Nah poor Performance, over heated like crazy, throttled like hell, things did get a tad better when I mounted a artic cooler but ultimately died a few months later


I had no poor performance, if you were overheating and throttling then I guess that would explain it. Other than that it was the fastest GPU on the market by a fair amount when it was released. Did GPU's even throttle back then? Anyway the stock cooler was pretty noisy but it did fine at keeping my X1900XTX cool enough that it never overheated or throttled.

I did like you and eventually mounted an artic cooler to it as well which dropped my temps dramatically while keeping things whisper quiet, I was able to clock to core up to 720mhz with the artic cooler installed. Card still runs like a champ to this day in my brothers computer, obviously he doesnt game with it but it still works.


----------



## Seraphic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> FTFY, I wonder when they'll release that?
> 
> I'd like NVIDIA to hurry up and release GM210 sooner than later.


Why did you chance my 8GB to 4GB? 4GB is mid-range.
High-end cards should have at least 8GB for next gen.


----------



## Menta

I guess "anything" can throttle reaching or exceeding it's heat or voltage limitations


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seraphic*
> 
> Why did you chance my 8GB to 4GB? 4GB is mid-range.
> High-end cards should have at least 8GB for next gen.


yeah thats just like the people that said " we will absolutely need 6gb of vram when games come out in 2014.

i bet you 4gb will be more than enough for games coming out soon.


----------



## Remij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> yeah thats just like the people that said " we will absolutely need 6gb of vram when games come out in 2014.
> 
> i bet you 4gb will be more than enough for games coming out soon.


Didn't Crytek list a 4GB GPU as the recommended spec for 4K?

4GB will be enough for probably 2-3 more years at 1080p


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seraphic*
> 
> Why did you chance my 8GB to 4GB? 4GB is mid-range.
> High-end cards should have at least 8GB for next gen.


You think the 390X will have 8GB? I could see it on 20nm, but if it's on 28nm, I doubt it.

What are the latest rumors besides this? ( these didn't list ram )


----------



## Seraphic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> yeah thats just like the people that said " we will absolutely need 6gb of vram when games come out in 2014.
> 
> i bet you 4gb will be more than enough for games coming out soon.


Maybe for 1080p, but some of us might be looking at 4k monitors in the future and 4GB just won't cut it.

Hey Szeged, did you ever get that DDR4 3000 kit from G.skill?
Were you able to overclock or tighten up the timings at all?


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seraphic*
> 
> Maybe for 1080p, but some of us might be looking at 4k monitors in the future and 4GB just won't cut it.
> 
> Hey Szeged, did you ever get that DDR4 3000 kit from G.skill?
> Were you able to overclock or tighten up the timings at all?


Future? Try now! & 4gb is tons.


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seraphic*
> 
> Maybe for 1080p, but some of us might be looking at 4k monitors in the future and 4GB just won't cut it.


I'm going to be driving U3014s in surround - I actually already am, using a pair of 670s which is nowhere near good enough for most games (good enough for WoT though







) I suspect 4G will be borderline at best.


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orick*
> 
> So what's a decent cheap stop gap card if this gen doesn't pan out? Is R9 270 good value?


Got a hd7950 for 100$ on ebay, it was in france though I take it ebay USA is much more competitive as there are more people involved, someone said 120 or so so that's still good value for the price !


----------



## Menta

Rise son of Rome changed their recomentadion but maintain 4GB for 4k


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seraphic*
> 
> Maybe for 1080p, but some of us might be looking at 4k monitors in the future and 4GB just won't cut it.
> 
> Hey Szeged, did you ever get that DDR4 3000 kit from G.skill?
> Were you able to overclock or tighten up the timings at all?


I run 4K with 2gb cards so 4gb will be plenty


----------



## The Source

Good for you. Blanket statements like that are getting pretty tiresome. I'm experiencing CTD from low memory with 3GB's in Frostbite 3 games, Crysis 3, and Black Flag when I either enable 4K downsampling or try to use a competent amount of AA with these 780's on a 1440p monitor. If crytek suggests 4GB for 4K you can bet it won't be long for this to be the standard for anything demanding above 1440p. 4GB would be the bare minimum for me at the moment. How long do you think that would last?


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Source*
> 
> Good for you. Blanket statements like that are getting pretty tiresome. I'm experiencing CTD from low memory with 3GB's in Frostbite 3 games, Crysis 3, and Black Flag when I either enable 4K downsampling or try to use a competent amount of AA with these 780's on a 1440p monitor. If crytek suggests 4GB for 4K you can bet it won't be long for this to be the standard for anything demanding above 1440p. 4GB would be the bare minimum for me at the moment. How long do you think that would last?


Are you sure that is the cause? I can run BF4 playably at 4k via downsampling on a mix of high/ultra with AA disabled and I don't get any crashes.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> Are you sure that is the cause? I can run BF4 playably at 4k via downsampling on a mix of high/ultra with AA disabled and I don't get any crashes.


This. I play bf4 at 4K with no issues.


----------



## The Source

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> This. I play bf4 at 4K with no issues.


Prove it. ALL ultra settings.

And if you have Need for Speed Rivals, give that a go.

Compromising isn't an option if image quality is of any concern. And no, I don't care if you consider resolution over settings reduction to be preferable.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seraphic*
> 
> Maybe for 1080p, but some of us might be looking at 4k monitors in the future and 4GB just won't cut it.
> 
> Hey Szeged, did you ever get that DDR4 3000 kit from G.skill?
> Were you able to overclock or tighten up the timings at all?


i run my 3gb 780ti @ 4k with no problems









yes i got the 3000 kit from gskill, i havent worked on timings yet but i did get it to run at 3200mhz.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> This. I play bf4 at 4K with no issues.


What are your in game settings? I have no trouble at all exceeding my 3GB of vram with BF4 all ultra downscaled 4k. Even with AA disabled it is nearing 3gb's when I try it.


----------



## omarh2o

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> I already said that in another thread but what people don't realise is even if it's 10% over a Ti that's alot, because, there will be overclocked models and those will be clockable too ! (hopefully pretty high..)


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Source*
> 
> Good for you. Blanket statements like that are getting pretty tiresome. I'm experiencing CTD from low memory with 3GB's in Frostbite 3 games, Crysis 3, and Black Flag when I either enable 4K downsampling or try to use a competent amount of AA with these 780's on a 1440p monitor. If crytek suggests 4GB for 4K you can bet it won't be long for this to be the standard for anything demanding above 1440p. 4GB would be the bare minimum for me at the moment. How long do you think that would last?


4gb standard is bound to happen for 4k, for now anything under 4k res should be fine with 3gb. currently using dual 1440p monitors with no problems with 3gb cards.


----------



## The Source

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omarh2o*
> 
> 4gb standard is bound to happen for 4k, for now anything under 4k res should be fine with 3gb. currently using dual 1440p monitors with no problems with 3gb cards.


Without compromises? Playing what? You also probably think 1440p doesn't need addition AA.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on what they find acceptable. I just find blanket statements irritating.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Source*
> 
> Without compromises? Playing what? You also probably think 1440p doesn't need addition AA.
> 
> Everyone is entitled to their opinion on what they find acceptable. I just find blanket statements irritating.


I do agree AA is still needed at 1440p but you must be running an absurd amount of it "maybe ssaa too?" if you are running out of 3gb's at 1440P. I have no issues sticking with 4XMSAA and even a little transparency AA from time to time....


----------



## The Source

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> I do agree AA is still needed at 1440p but you must be running an absurd amount of it "maybe ssaa too?" if you are running out of 3gb's at 1440P. I have no issues sticking with 4XMSAA and even a little transparency AA from time to time....


It's completely game dependent. Metro LL runs fine and looks great at 4K for instance. Crysis 3 still needs at least 2xmsaa at 4K. Getting rid of jaggies in that game is a nightmare.







I have to admit that I am pretty picky and have some high standards when it comes to image quality, so most of the time I run a bit of downsampling plus in game AA if available.

Right now I'm having to compromise, and that bothers me. I know, first world problems. Not enough to switch back to AMD or spend the ridiculous amount for titans though.


----------



## flippin_waffles

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> Again, the 500mm GPU that taped out alongside Tonga. Since there hasn't been any news of anything else it's probably Iceland.


Possibly. Sushiwarrior on Anandtech forums alluded to Iceland being massive. Although my interpretation of that was that he was alluding to package size, so 500mm Iceland + HBM on package with interposer.

As far as Maxwell goes, it seems to me that all NV will be doing is catching up to Hawaii. Considering Hawaii is 100mm smaller than GK110, NV had to release a chip that was competitive with Hawaii with a lot closer die size if it wanted to be able to compete on price. But, Hawaii was released 1 year ago already and NV is just now catching up. What are they going to use to compete with full Tonga, because they sure can't move a 550mm die down to the $300-$400 range.


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Source*
> 
> Prove it. ALL ultra settings.
> 
> And if you have Need for Speed Rivals, give that a go.
> 
> Compromising isn't an option if image quality is of any concern. And no, I don't care if you consider resolution over settings reduction to be preferable.


Why would you run EVERYTHING on ultra at 4k? BF4 has two kinds of AA built in, neither of which you need at 4k.


----------



## omarh2o

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Source*
> 
> Without compromises? Playing what? You also probably think 1440p doesn't need addition AA.
> 
> Everyone is entitled to their opinion on what they find acceptable. I just find blanket statements irritating.


true, I do use 2xmsaa or 2xsmaa never more or find the need to use any more, and by no problems I mean I don't see any memory bottle necks. and using crisis 3 ultra 2xsmaa as a reference.


----------



## Alatar

Heh



https://twitter.com/NVIDIAGeForce/status/510242410765373440/photo/1
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flippin_waffles*
> 
> As far as Maxwell goes, it seems to me that all NV will be doing is catching up to Hawaii. Considering Hawaii is 100mm smaller than GK110, NV had to release a chip that was competitive with Hawaii with a lot closer die size if it wanted to be able to compete on price. But, Hawaii was released 1 year ago already and NV is just now catching up. What are they going to use to compete with full Tonga, because they sure can't move a 550mm die down to the $300-$400 range.


Only makes sense if you completely ignore transistor density differences (hawaii is much denser than GK110), how far each GPU is pushed at stock etc... There's a reason that OC'd hawaii chips can't match OC'd GK110s. Aside from the 780 that is.

And I don't see how a full tonga is a problem? A tad higher perf than a 280X for $300? A 770 at 275 is fine. Or a GM204 based 960 or something.


----------



## escalibur

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> That is funny.


http://www.xtremehardware.com/news/hardware/immagine-per-zotac-gtx-970-e-prezzo-per-asus-strix-gtx-970-2014091110190/


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *escalibur*
> 
> http://www.xtremehardware.com/news/hardware/immagine-per-zotac-gtx-970-e-prezzo-per-asus-strix-gtx-970-2014091110190/


Source: Overclock.net lol


----------



## dean_8486

Since I have skipped a generation, and iam still using the 680gtx iam hoping for a big jump in performance. Debating whether I will need the 970 or 980...


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dean_8486*
> 
> Since I have skipped a generation, and iam still using the 680gtx iam hoping for a big jump in performance. Debating whether I will need the 970 or 980...


Well 700 series wasn't really a new gen. The 980 might be a good jump if it is faster then a 780ti.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *escalibur*
> 
> http://www.xtremehardware.com/news/hardware/immagine-per-zotac-gtx-970-e-prezzo-per-asus-strix-gtx-970-2014091110190/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Overclock.net lol
Click to expand...

Same thing here: http://videocardz.com/52282/zotac-geforce-gtx-970-pictured-the-ultimate-proof-there-are-no-800-series

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dean_8486*
> 
> Since I have skipped a generation, and iam still using the 680gtx iam hoping for a big jump in performance. Debating whether I will need the 970 or 980...


According to the latest rumours you might be able to get GTX 780 Ti performance on the same power envelope as the GTX 680. So, it's a straight swap in your case, but the performance numbers so far seem to indicate it's not going to be much faster than the GTX 780 Ti.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Same thing here: http://videocardz.com.


And some people wonder why VC isn't a site that is taken seriously.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Same thing here: http://videocardz.com.
> 
> 
> 
> And some people wonder why VC isn't a site that is taken seriously.
Click to expand...

Come on, they did the right thing by crediting where they found the information. They could have just gone straight to the Facebook post and claim they found it themselves.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Come on, they did the right thing by crediting where they found the information. They could have just gone straight to the Facebook post and claim they found it themselves.


Quoted for truth. If anything this actually STRENGTHENS videocardz as a legitimate news site as they are crediting their sources and noting things as rumors or fact as appropriate.


----------



## 2010rig

I mean they post anything and everything, I just don't dig'em. *To me*, they're on the same level as WCCF.


----------



## Astral Fly

R
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> I mean they post anything and everything, I just don't dig'em. *To me*, they're on the same level as WCCF.


They're rumor sites, that's what they are supposed to do. I don't get why some people get so worked up over them. To me the sensible thing to do is listen to what they say, but take nothing as fact unless it's backed up officially. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong. That's the nature of rumors. People who can't handle that should just stay away.


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> I mean they post anything and everything, I just don't dig'em. *To me*, they're on the same level as WCCF.


It's true that they have made a few mistakes and are essentially a rumours and product launch site, so that's that, but it's also true that they have had a few important firsts. Take the Haswell-E slides, for example.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Astral Fly*
> 
> R
> They're rumor sites, that's what they are supposed to do. I don't get why some people get so worked up over them. To me the sensible thing to do is listen to what they say, but take nothing as fact unless it's backed up officially. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong. That's the nature of rumors. People who can't handle that should just stay away.


This. They do seem to avoid the most outlandish rumors that have cropped up for the most part, and unlike WCCF they actually do very reliably credit their sources, but ultimately it is a rumor type site. They're great at what they do in my opinion and I love reading it. If you want hard facts, wait for a launch and then look for reviews







.


----------



## provost

If nothing else, they are equitable in their rumors about Nvidia , AMD, Intel, etc....lol
Not just propagating for one side or another.


----------



## tpi2007

Another site crediting OCN: http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/zotac-geforce-gtx-970-photo.html


----------



## CalinTM

With my brand new 980 i will finally play Skyrim at +2gb texture mods yaaay


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> Well 700 series wasn't really a new gen. The 980 might be a good jump if it is faster then a 780ti.


I always get a kick out of comments like these, coming from someone who owned a GTX 680 that did 1380mhz on the core I can tell you first hand that even though the 780 was not new tech it is way faster than the card which preceded it. Its not like comparing the GTX 480 to the GTX 580, the jump is far bigger than that.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> but the performance numbers so far seem to indicate it's not going to be much faster than the GTX 780 Ti.


Which ones? oh you mean the ONE leaked 3dmark test where no one is even completely sure that its legit? Come on people.......... wait till actual gaming benchmarks are released and then we will know for sure. It may or may not be what many are hoping for be we wont really know until we see some gaming numbers from reputable sites.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> I always get a kick out of comments like these, coming from someone who owned a GTX 680 that did 1380mhz on the core I can tell you first hand that even though the 780 was not new tech it is way faster than the card which preceded it. Its not like comparing the GTX 480 to the GTX 580, the jump is far bigger than that.


Yep, had owned both 670, 680, 670 SLI, and 680 SLI at different points, ended with a 1400mhz clocking gtx 670 single, and then moved to a 780 at their launch. GIANT difference, no questions asked.


----------



## Juub

So apparently PChub Phillipines listed the prices of the 980 and 970. 730$ and 450$ respectively if we convert currency. Price of 500$ for a 980 is becoming increasingly unlikely.

http://m.hexus.net/tech/news/graphics/74649-msi-teases-geforce-gtx-970-twinfrozr-v-cooling-solution/


----------



## CalinTM

Hahaha, 730$ for 980, and its barely faster than 780 Ti which has the same price. And Gm204 is mainstream







))

What fake prices. Wait another freacking week guys.

GK110 is high-end and GM204 is mainstream, and they have the same price tags... ->>>>
->>>>>>>>FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE....


----------



## zealord

I think the performance from videocardz is real. If you take a look at the graph it shows that it matches the core clock with what we have seen from russian vendors so far. Both the 980 and the 970. Pretty sure the 980 is 10-12% above the 780 Ti, but not more. (both at stock).


----------



## Juub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> Hahaha, 730$ for 980, and its barely faster than 780 Ti which has the same price. And Gm204 is mainstream
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ))
> 
> What fake prices. Wait another freacking week guys.
> 
> FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE....


That's a direct conversion of the currency which is never representative of the actual US price as the hardware is cheaper in the States.


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> bad experience on the ATI 1900 xtx keeps me away. But I guess one day I will risk it just not now I think


My last AMD was one of the X800s (forget which), but that was after a 9600 and then a 9800pro had both failed and had a bunch of driver problems. I'm open to going back to AMD myself and would have had the 290/290x actually been available at a proper price. Instead I got an inexpensive 2nd card and went SLI.

edit:spelling and grammar


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juub*
> 
> That's a direct conversion of the currency which is never representative of the actual US price as the hardware is cheaper in the States.


And it's a preorder price posted on facebook by one specific vendor.... at that.


----------



## Juub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> And it's a preorder price posted on facebook by one specific vendor.... at that.


I'd be surprised if it sells for less than 599$ which I think will be the price.


----------



## Menta

just a couple of days to go....the wait has been good and bad....learned a few things, always a good thing but at the same time i think i will skip these early launches and always have a secondary card laying around...to impatient at the same time not so hyped anymore, was expecting all those specs and arm processors that where "rumored a few months back. the prices better be good though


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juub*
> 
> I'd be surprised if it sells for less than 599$ which I think will be the price.


Yep, I think $599 also.


----------



## zealord

are you guys pondering 599$ because you think it is a reasonable price for the estimated performance/speccs/time released or are you desensitising yourself to make the price more appealing to yourself and actually buy one at 599$?

I don't know how it wil translate to Europe, but I'd very disappointed if this hits at 599$ / 599€. Not only do I think that 599$ is too much, but also 499$ would be too much considering that it is almost 2015 and we don't even get 20nm and a greater performance boost.

If you pay 599$ and it translates to 499€ I do not care, but if you guys pay 599$ in the US it probably means I pay atleast 570€~ in Europe (atleast in the launch window). And I don't want the reference 980. The Gaming, Windforce, ASUS DC2, Lightning, Classified, HoF and what not probably are a 50 extra on top of that.

How could people actually be okay with 599$? Most people who bought a 680 are still mad today about the pricing. This one is actually worse. There is no jump like 40nm->28nm. Only architecture and a smaller performance increase from 780 Ti -> 980 than from 580 -> 680.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but I got to work on saturday,sunday, get my wisdom teeth pulled next week and I just found out GTA V comes in 2015 for PC, but November for consoles.


----------



## friend'scatdied

Hoping the 980 is $649 like the 780 was initially.

Then I hope AMD rushes out a response over the holidays and then the MSRP of the 980 deflates to $499 shortly thereafter.

Wishful thinking, I know.


----------



## fleetfeather

haha, you guys act like you're forced to buy the card. no sense of self-control at all









if it's overpriced, move on with your life. plenty of other solid deals out there


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> haha, you guys act like you're forced to buy the card. no sense of self-control at all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if it's overpriced, move on with your life. plenty of other solid deals out there


Yep, if the pair of 980's I planned on comes in too high I'll just get a pair of 970's or something else within my budget, rather than act like I'm being forced into what is a willing transaction by myself







. I *hope* the 980 comes in at $499 but if it doesn't, I'm not going to stomp my feet like some people already seem to be beginning to







.


----------



## CasualCat

If it comes in higher than $499 and is marginally better than the 780ti I'd probably just wait for GM200 or see what AMD does. May do that anyhow tbh.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Hoping the 980 is $649 like the 780 was initially.
> 
> Then I hope AMD rushes out a response over the holidays and then the MSRP of the 980 deflates to $499 shortly thereafter.
> 
> Wishful thinking, I know.


It should be launching at 500$ and everything else should drop too. Prices are waaay too inflated.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> It should be launching at 500$ and everything else should drop too. Prices are waaay too inflated.


I agree, all else aside it doesn't look like it should be higher than $499.


----------



## Stay Puft

Pricing the 980 @ 599.99+ is a huge mistake imo.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Pricing the 980 @ 599.99+ is a huge mistake imo.


We'll find out in around 5-6 days at most!


----------



## CalinTM

500 bucks hear me.


----------



## Menta

970 will launch with after market coolers from the leaks but the 980 we still have very limited info, guess it will be reference first


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Source*
> 
> Without compromises? Playing what? You also probably think 1440p doesn't need addition AA.
> 
> Everyone is entitled to their opinion on what they find acceptable. I just find blanket statements irritating.


I run 1440p fully maxed with 8xMSAA in BF4 and Crysis 3 on my Titans and I don't think Ive ever seen usage go over 3GB...


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> Hahaha, 730$ for 980, and its barely faster than 780 Ti which has the same price.


Yep we can know this for 100 percent certainty because of all the reputable "gaming benchmarks"........ oh wait..... we base everything of 1 questionable leaked 3dmark test. lol.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CasualCat*
> 
> My last AMD was one of the X800s (forget which), but that was after a 9600 and then a 9800pro had both failed and had a bunch of driver problems. I'm open to going back to AMD myself and would have had the 290/290x actually been available at a proper price. Instead I got an inexpensive 2nd card and went SLI.
> 
> edit:spelling and grammar


I had the 9800pro and then the x800xt, both were excellent cards and never gave me a moments trouble and in all honesty I think ATI's drivers during that period of time were really solid.. never an issue for me.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CasualCat*
> 
> If it comes in higher than $499 and is marginally better than the 780ti I'd probably just wait for GM200 or see what AMD does. May do that anyhow tbh.


Same here.


----------



## FreeElectron

Any news?


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Another site crediting OCN: http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/zotac-geforce-gtx-970-photo.html


WHAT? Hilbert is actually posting a source this time? TPU could learn something from this!


----------



## PlugSeven

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Pricing the 980 @ 599.99+ is a huge mistake imo.


NO it ain't, there is a very loyal fan base out there and nvidia knows this.
It would be wrong for them not to milk em'.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PlugSeven*
> 
> NO it ain't, there is a very loyal fan base out there and nvidia knows this.
> It would be wrong for them not to milk em'.


Yes it is!









There is a loyal fan base on both sides, but that is never an excuse for stuff to be priced incorrectly. This is a midrange level chip. More than $499 for the 980 is a mistake by all accounts.


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juub*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> Hahaha, 730$ for 980, and its barely faster than 780 Ti which has the same price. And Gm204 is mainstream
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ))
> 
> What fake prices. Wait another freacking week guys.
> 
> FAKE FAKE FAKE FAKE....
> 
> 
> 
> That's a direct conversion of the currency which is never representative of the actual US price as the hardware is cheaper in the States.
Click to expand...

exactly. US prices are typically lower compared to the rest of the world







. I just did a quick peek at the prices in philippines and majority are higher -even with US tax included. Not to mention philippine tax is already included on posted prices.


----------



## scotthulbs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Yes it is!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a loyal fan base on both sides, but that is never an excuse for stuff to be priced incorrectly. This is a midrange level chip. More than $499 for the 980 is a mistake by all accounts.


^This


----------



## Nilin404

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acupalypse*
> 
> exactly. US prices are typically lower compared to the rest of the world
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I just did a quick peek at the prices in philippines and majority are higher -even with US tax included. Not to mention philippine tax is already included on posted prices.


This is accurate. Tax is included on every item sold in the Philippines.


----------



## nyxagamemnon

I can speculate that the 10-15% Faster than the 780ti will only come if the 780Ti's clock is 200-300Mhz below the 980. Otherwise if you match clocks the 980's lead will go Poof.


----------



## The Source

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I run 1440p fully maxed with 8xMSAA in BF4 and Crysis 3 on my Titans and I don't think Ive ever seen usage go over 3GB...


Does Bf4 support 8xmsaa? No. Ok. Run both of those games at 4K and let us know how it goes because that was the topic of conversation. I also use the CVAR tool for Crysis 3 to take settings beyond very high so the most I can run in 4xmsaa without crashing.

I don't feel like dragging out this beaten to death conversation any longer. Back on topic. Pointless speculation.


----------



## Wihglah

I've got £500 for a 980, an EK backplate and a FC block for it.

If it's more than that I'm getting a 290X.

The performance looks like about where I expected. I'm seeing 780TIs price drop in a lot of places.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PlugSeven*
> 
> NO it ain't, there is a very loyal fan base out there and nvidia knows this.
> It would be wrong for them not to milk em'.


but but....
I am not a nvidia fan and i don't have much milk


----------



## Alatar

http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming-software-graphics-cards/757332-brace-yourself-new-maxwell-cards-incoming-189.html#post9772792
Quote:


> ID Bench Date GPU Score Core/Memory Driver CPU Mobo
> 2734193 09/11/2014 GTX 970 11312 1,140/1,253 9.18.13.4405 i7-4790 MSI Z97 GAMING 5 (MS-7917)
> 2733255 09/11/2014 GTX 970M 7334 924/1,253 9.18.13.4400 i7-4710HQ Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MS-1773
> 2733602 09/11/2014 GTX 970M (x2) 6332 924/1,253 9.18.13.4400 i7-4710HQ Notebook P375SM-A
> 2733641 09/11/2014 GTX 970M (x2) 14778 924/1,253 9.18.13.4400 i7-4710HQ Notebook P375SM-A
> 2733501 09/11/2014 GTX 980 5745 1,127/1,253 9.18.13.4405 i7-4770K ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. Z87-A
> 2737667 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 11317 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4397 i7-5960X ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. X99-DELUXE
> 2737384 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 11479 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4397 i7-5960X ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. X99-DELUXE
> 2736492 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 12856 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-3960X Extreme Edition Intel Corporation DX79SI
> 2736538 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 13608 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-3960X Extreme Edition Intel Corporation DX79SI
> 2736519 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 13627 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-3960X Extreme Edition Intel Corporation DX79SI
> 2737161 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 15590 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-4930K ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. P9X79 WS
> 2737965 09/12/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 16847 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4397 i7-5960X ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. X99-DELUXE
> 2737876 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 17029 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4397 i7-5960X ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. X99-DELUXE
> 2736508 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 17211 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4397 i7-5960X ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. X99-DELUXE
> 2736590 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 18009 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4397 i7-5960X ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. X99-DELUXE
> 2736542 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 18697 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4397 i7-5960X ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. X99-DELUXE
> 2736227 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 18934 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4397 i7-5960X ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. X99-DELUXE
> 2736576 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 20955 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-3960X Extreme Edition Intel Corporation DX79SI
> 2736645 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 20965 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-3960X Extreme Edition Intel Corporation DX79SI
> 2736671 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 21019 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-3960X Extreme Edition Intel Corporation DX79SI
> 2736562 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 21028 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-3960X Extreme Edition Intel Corporation DX79SI
> 2737688 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 24923 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4397 i7-5960X ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. X99-DELUXE
> 2736801 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 25069 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-5960X EVGA INTERNATIONAL CO.,LTD 150-HE-E997
> 2736781 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 25114 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-5960X EVGA INTERNATIONAL CO.,LTD 150-HE-E997
> 2736515 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 25195 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-5960X EVGA INTERNATIONAL CO.,LTD 150-HE-E997
> 2737362 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 25223 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4397 i7-5960X ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. X99-DELUXE
> 2736489 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 25300 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-5960X EVGA INTERNATIONAL CO.,LTD 150-HE-E997
> 2733582 09/11/2014 GTX 980M (x2) 7464 1,038/1,253 9.18.13.4400 i7-4940MX Notebook P370SM-A
> 2733505 09/11/2014 GTX 980M (x2) 18540 1,038/1,753 9.18.13.4400 i7-4940MX Notebook P370SM-A


Includes some really high SLI scores as well such as this 25.3K GPU score one: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2736489 which would be ~25% faster than a R9 295X2 or ~18% faster than 780Ti SLI.

(According to PCPER numbers at least: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Radeon-R9-295X2-8GB-Graphics-Card-Review/3DMark-Fire-Strike-and-Fire-Stri )


----------



## fleetfeather

hard to tell what sort of numbers we're really looking at when a pair of 980's pulls the same as a single 970.


----------



## Alatar

I'd look at the higher numbers. Since they exist it's clear the cards are capable of those numbers.

The lower ones are probably due to drivers or something.


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming-software-graphics-cards/757332-brace-yourself-new-maxwell-cards-incoming-189.html#post9772792
> Includes some really high SLI scores as well such as this 25.3K GPU score one: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2736489 which would be ~25% faster than a R9 295X2 or ~18% faster than 780Ti SLI.
> 
> (According to PCPER numbers at least: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Radeon-R9-295X2-8GB-Graphics-Card-Review/3DMark-Fire-Strike-and-Fire-Stri )


mannnnnnnn.... thats pretty monster since it appears to be stock clocks... couple that with a 23k phsyics score and its gonna be HUGE. I'm interested to see if they are capable of running the 13-1400 on air that the 750Ti's do


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming-software-graphics-cards/757332-brace-yourself-new-maxwell-cards-incoming-189.html#post9772792
> Includes some really high SLI scores as well such as this 25.3K GPU score one: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2736489 which would be ~25% faster than a R9 295X2 or ~18% faster than 780Ti SLI.
> 
> (According to PCPER numbers at least: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Radeon-R9-295X2-8GB-Graphics-Card-Review/3DMark-Fire-Strike-and-Fire-Stri )


Thank you for sharing Alatar









Is that GPU score or overall score? I always have a hard time figuring that out lol


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming-software-graphics-cards/757332-brace-yourself-new-maxwell-cards-incoming-189.html#post9772792
> Includes some really high SLI scores as well such as this 25.3K GPU score one: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2736489 which would be ~25% faster than a R9 295X2 or ~18% faster than 780Ti SLI.
> 
> (According to PCPER numbers at least: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Radeon-R9-295X2-8GB-Graphics-Card-Review/3DMark-Fire-Strike-and-Fire-Stri )


And here..... We....... Go.....


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Thank you for sharing Alatar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that GPU score or overall score? I always have a hard time figuring that out lol


I was comparing GPU scores since comparing overall scores doesn't make any sense.

However you have to click the individual links to see GPU score.


----------



## zealord

1127 mhz core clock from 3 different sources now. I guess we pretty much can pinpoint the speccs and performance. Seems about 10% better than the 780 Ti.

Now we only have to know the price and overclockability















Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> I was comparing GPU scores since comparing overall scores doesn't make any sense.
> 
> However you have to click the individual links to see GPU score.


Thanks mate, appreciate your helpfulness in overclock forums very much.


----------



## sugarhell

Hmm not that much higher over 780ti sli when there is almost 200mhz clock difference


----------



## XT-107

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming-software-graphics-cards/757332-brace-yourself-new-maxwell-cards-incoming-189.html#post9772792
> Includes some really high SLI scores as well such as this 25.3K GPU score one: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2736489 which would be ~25% faster than a R9 295X2 or ~18% faster than 780Ti SLI.
> 
> (According to PCPER numbers at least: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Radeon-R9-295X2-8GB-Graphics-Card-Review/3DMark-Fire-Strike-and-Fire-Stri )


1253mhz memory for gtx970 ? wut


----------



## Menta

price on the 980 is going to be similar to the 780ti for sure


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MunneY*
> 
> mannnnnnnn.... thats pretty monster since it appears to be stock clocks... couple that with a 23k phsyics score and its gonna be HUGE. I'm interested to see if they are capable of running the 13-1400 on air that the 750Ti's do


The thing is that 750Tis are doing 1400-1500 *at 1.2v or under.* Mine isn't the best sample and it does 1448MHz at 1.19v, which iirc gets some vdroop as well on top.

If we get voltage control on some models, or for the people who do hard mods, you should see some crazy clocks.


----------



## Olivon

Thanks Alatar.



~780Ti +10%


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Hmm not that much higher over 780ti sli when there is almost 200mhz clock difference


This is a stock clocked card... it is withing 2000 gpu score of my 1300 core Ti's... Clock for clock its going to be faster... Use less power.. what more do you want?


----------



## Gorea

Roughly how close to say a 660 or a 760 (stock for them) does a 750 ti get when clocked at ~1400+?


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> I'd look at the higher numbers. Since they exist it's clear the cards are capable of those numbers.
> 
> The lower ones are probably due to drivers or something.


The lowered number ones are firestrike extreme, the higher ones are regular firestrike, at least on some of them


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> The thing is that 750Tis are doing 1400-1500 *at 1.2v or under.* Mine isn't the best sample and it does 1448MHz at 1.19v, which iirc gets some vdroop as well on top.
> 
> If we get voltage control on some models, or for the people who do hard mods, you should see some crazy clocks.


Bro, if we get voltage control and it unlocks per 680s and 780s... I think you'll see some 15-1700 cores on water.


----------



## sugarhell

Alatar you have any ln2 run with 750ti?


----------



## Alatar

I only ran it on air cooling. Mostly stock, the 1448MHz was done with a stock cooler from an FX8350 though.

Anyway, at the time I was somewhat busy so I didn't really run any proper benches aside from some stability testing in valley etc.

There's some good LN2 runs on hwbot though. Some nice 2GHz scores.


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> I only ran it on air cooling. Mostly stock, the 1448MHz was done with a stock cooler from an FX8350 though.
> 
> Anyway, at the time I was somewhat busy so I didn't really run any proper benches aside from some stability testing in valley etc.
> 
> There's some good LN2 runs on hwbot though. Some nice 2GHz scores.


I could only find this one

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/3730107

Seems around the same limit as gk110 probably 28nm limit


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Olivon*
> 
> Thanks Alatar.
> 
> 
> 
> ~780Ti +10%


can you post a direct link to that result? Would be very much appreciated.









Edit : I am an idiot


----------



## tajoh111

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Hmm not that much higher over 780ti sli when there is almost 200mhz clock difference


If it has higher clocks, who cares? As long as powerup consumption isn't off the charts, it means the chip isn't being pushed and can be clocked higher if the gtx 750 ti is any indication. Its 33% smaller than a gtx 780 ti and looks to consume the same amount of the power as the r9 285. Of course its going to need higher clocks or something to perform better unless there was a super architecture change

Alot of AMD fans cling to the performance of the r9 285(and says its not fully enabled[missing 12.5 percent of its shaders enabled)). But you guys downplay this card that is only 10% faster than a gtx 780 ti.

It beats the r9 285 badly from an all accounts. Looks to be 40-50 percent faster, use about the same power and is *only 6% larger in die size*. Particularly the last point, if Nvidia did a bit of predatory pricing like core 2 duo, they could lock AMD out of the market. The figures above are the type of difference, perhaps even more so, the core 2 duo had vs the athlon 64 x2.

Of course Nvidia is going to price it high just to make more money(which actually helps out AMD), but from an architectural perspective, its super impressive.

What this could force AMD to do like to some extent it had to do with hawaii and the fx series CPU, is strap bigger and bigger cooling to the thing and try to brute force competitive performance. Its looks like AMD is going to do this with fiji with a AIO water cooler for a single GPU.

This might work for a little bit but is a short term solution. AMD needs to get off gcn and start with a new architecture.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> I could only find this one
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/3730107
> 
> Seems around the same limit as gk110 probably 28nm limit


Can't find the results now but I've definitely seen 2ghz 750Ti scores. And they seemed to be easier to achieve than similar frequencies with 780Tis which would usually max out at 1700mhz+ with only vince ever managing over 2ghz iirc.

Anyway that's not the point, point is that air/water OCing hits considerably higher frequencies at lower volts for GM107 cards.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Source*
> 
> Does Bf4 support 8xmsaa? No. Ok. Run both of those games at 4K and let us know how it goes because that was the topic of conversation. I also use the CVAR tool for Crysis 3 to take settings beyond very high so the most I can run in 4xmsaa without crashing.
> 
> I don't feel like dragging out this beaten to death conversation any longer. Back on topic. Pointless speculation.


Hey im curious do you really think the cvar tool does anything or is it placebo? I would like to try it myself.


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> 1127 mhz core clock from 3 different sources now. I guess we pretty much can pinpoint the speccs and performance. Seems about 10% better than the 780 Ti.
> 
> Now we only have to know the price and overclockability
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks mate, appreciate your helpfulness in overclock forums very much.


If its the same as 750 Ti, easy +200Mhz on 980, mainstream oc wise.


----------



## mcg75

Just for fun for anybody who is curious.

Here's a 780 Ti SLI run using Skyn3t's bios at it's default clock of 1045 mhz.

I have it on a comparison page with one of the higher 980 SLI scores.

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/2737362/fs/2742655


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> Just for fun for anybody who is curious.
> 
> Here's a 780 Ti SLI run using Skyn3t's bios at it's default clock of 1045 mhz.
> 
> I have it on a comparison page with one of the higher 980 SLI scores.
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/2737362/fs/2742655


I'll run mine at stock when I get home and see whats going


----------



## vlps5122

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> Just for fun for anybody who is curious.
> 
> Here's a 780 Ti SLI run using Skyn3t's bios at it's default clock of 1045 mhz.
> 
> I have it on a comparison page with one of the higher 980 SLI scores.
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/2737362/fs/2742655


13% difference in graphics score with a newer driver and a higher clock, not too different. im guessing clock for clock the 980 would be 10% faster. in games at 1440p/4k with slower memory in the 980, the performance gap may narrow even more.


----------



## rv8000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> Just for fun for anybody who is curious.
> 
> Here's a 780 Ti SLI run using Skyn3t's bios at it's default clock of 1045 mhz.
> 
> I have it on a comparison page with one of the higher 980 SLI scores.
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/2737362/fs/2742655


If the 980 sli score is in fact at those clocks (1127/1753), and with the recent drop of many aftermarket 780ti's into the ~570$ range, I have a hard time believing nvidia will let these go for anything less than 599$, I almost want to say we'll see a similar release price to the 780 ~649$. IF, and thats a big if, a 980 is capable of that performance at stock.


----------



## sugarhell

1127 probably are the stock clocks. If you put the boost too its around 1200 mhz


----------



## HeadlessKnight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> Just for fun for anybody who is curious.
> 
> Here's a 780 Ti SLI run using Skyn3t's bios at it's default clock of 1045 mhz.
> 
> I have it on a comparison page with one of the higher 980 SLI scores.
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/2737362/fs/2742655


About 14% faster when comparing the graphics score, 8% faster in GPU Test 1 and 18.5% faster in GPU Test 2. The 5960X is inflating the overall score a bit when compared to the 4770K.
10-15% is not bad as long as it doesn't cost more than $500 IMO.


----------



## vlps5122

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> 1127 probably are the stock clocks. If you put the boost too its around 1200 mhz


nvidia could be clocking them highly stock to get more adopters on board. makes sense because at 900 core clock it would be too similar to the 780 Ti


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming-software-graphics-cards/757332-brace-yourself-new-maxwell-cards-incoming-189.html#post9772792
> Includes some really high SLI scores as well such as this 25.3K GPU score one: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2736489 which would be ~25% faster than a R9 295X2 or ~18% faster than 780Ti SLI.
> 
> (According to PCPER numbers at least: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/AMD-Radeon-R9-295X2-8GB-Graphics-Card-Review/3DMark-Fire-Strike-and-Fire-Stri )


Thanks Alatar!!!

I hope this is real, my god, did you see that GTX 970?
That GPU score is faster than the 780 Ti!


Ocaholic: GeForce GTX 780 vs. GTX 780 Ti

Legit Reviews

Could it be too good to be true?

Damn, deciding between a PS4 or a GTX 970...


----------



## rv8000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadlessKnight*
> 
> About 14% faster when comparing the graphics score, 8% faster in GPU Test 1 and 18.5% faster in GPU Test 2. The 5960X is inflating the overall score a bit when compared to the 4770K.
> 10-15% is not bad as long as it doesn't cost more than $500 IMO.


I think both the 970 and 980 will be priced higher than the rumors, 449-499 and 599-649 respectively. If the cards are roughly 10% faster than their competing 700 series counterparts, Nvidia isn't that generous


----------



## omarh2o

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rv8000*
> 
> If the 980 sli score is in fact at those clocks (1127/1753), and with the recent drop of many aftermarket 780ti's into the ~570$ range, I have a hard time believing nvidia will let these go for anything less than 599$, I almost want to say we'll see a similar release price to the 780 ~649$. IF, and thats a big if, a 980 is capable of that performance at stock.


Where are they selling a 780 ti for 570? i might buy another then. Cheapest ive seen is $670 which is the evga reference model.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rv8000*
> 
> Nvidia isn't that generous


----------



## rv8000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omarh2o*
> 
> Where are they selling a 780 ti for 570? i might buy another then. Cheapest ive seen is $670 which is the evga reference model.


If im not mistaken the ASUS DC2 780ti was on sale for 589$ and there was a MIR for $30, there was a thread here just a few days ago.

*edit, here you go...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121838&cm_re=780_ti-_-14-121-838-_-Product


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rv8000*
> 
> I think both the 970 and 980 will be priced higher than the rumors, 449-499 and 599-649 respectively. If the cards are roughly 10% faster than their competing 700 series counterparts, Nvidia isn't that generous


I still don't understand where people get this from. Prices vary by generation.


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rv8000*
> 
> If the 980 sli score is in fact at those clocks (1127/1753), and with the recent drop of many aftermarket 780ti's into the ~570$ range, I have a hard time believing nvidia will let these go for anything less than 599$, I almost want to say we'll see a similar release price to the 780 ~649$. IF, and thats a big if, a 980 is capable of that performance at stock.


Will sell them at a mainstream price, they dont count the performance vs. previous generation. The prices are by mainstream and high-end.

GM204 is mainstream, will have mainstream price. 680 price launch day, maybe a little more.

Only IF 980 will get the price close to a high-end chip like GK110. Expect next year from GM200, a price waaay higher than 780 Ti.














close to a 1000$, and im not taling about a Titan 2.


----------



## HeadlessKnight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rv8000*
> 
> I think both the 970 and 980 will be priced higher than the rumors, 449-499 and 599-649 respectively. If the cards are roughly 10% faster than their competing 700 series counterparts, Nvidia isn't that generous


When GTX 680 came out it was 25-30% faster than GTX 580 and about 10% faster than HD 7970, it was priced like the 580 1.5 GB and lower than 7970. It isn't out of ordinary if they priced the GTX 980 $500, We are kinda in the same situation now..


----------



## omarh2o

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rv8000*
> 
> If im not mistaken the ASUS DC2 780ti was on sale for 589$ and there was a MIR for $30, there was a thread here just a few days ago.
> 
> *edit, here you go...
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121838&cm_re=780_ti-_-14-121-838-_-Product


ah ok, im still waiting for the the 780ti classy to drop in price. Im still debating whether to SLi 980's or grab another 780ti classy for 3way sli.
I know 980's aren't out yet but im getting eager lol


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadlessKnight*
> 
> When GTX 680 came out it was 25-30% faster than GTX 580 and about 10% faster than HD 7970, it was priced like the 580 1.5 GB and lower than 7970. It isn't out of ordinary if they priced the GTX 980 $500, We are kinda in the same situation now..


ahhh yes, the glorious pre-titan days.


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> ahhh yes, the glorious pre-titan days.


So what u think the launch of Titan has something to do with nvidias pricing in the future ?







Naah. Titan is just a workstation card, marketed by nvidia to be a gaming card. Titan is a very nice and cheap alternative for a workstation card, for people who had in mind to buy a Quadro card, which is very expensive.

Thats all about Titan. is just some symbol for nvidia, has his own pricing and his own public, his own "room".


----------



## frag06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> Thanks Alatar!!!
> 
> I hope this is real, my god, did you see that GTX 970?
> That GPU score is faster than the 780 Ti!
> 
> 
> Ocaholic: GeForce GTX 780 vs. GTX 780 Ti
> 
> Legit Reviews
> 
> Could it be too good to be true?
> 
> Damn, deciding between a PS4 or a GTX 970...


If that is true, the 970 and 980 are awfully close together performance wise. From these benchmarks, the 980 is around 10% - 15% faster than a 780 Ti.

If the rumored prices are true, spending an extra $100 would only get you an extra ~10% or so. Wouldn't be worth a $150 increase (i.e. if 970 is $500 and 980 is $650, like some have speculated).


----------



## HeadlessKnight

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> ahhh yes, the glorious pre-titan days.


Titans are not pure gaming card. GK110 is a big high-end die that costs much more than GK104. GM204 is the mid-spec'd chip of Maxwell, same as GK104, it cost less to manufacture than GK110 and is likely to be priced less than GK110 variants of cards.


----------



## Olivon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> Just for fun for anybody who is curious.
> 
> Here's a 780 Ti SLI run using Skyn3t's bios at it's default clock of 1045 mhz.
> 
> I have it on a comparison page with one of the higher 980 SLI scores.
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/2737362/fs/2742655


Thanks. Appreciated.
Difficult to know if 980 cards are OC or not.
Quite funnily notable, Kelt Reeves (FM nick user) is the CEO of Falcon NorthWest, dunno if it's real guy or not tho


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> So what u think the launch of Titan has something to do with nvidias pricing in the future ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Naah. Titan is just a workstation card, marketed by nvidia to be a gaming card. Titan is a very nice and cheap alternative for a workstation card, for people who had in mind to buy a Quadro card, which is very expensive.
> 
> Thats all about Titan. is just some symbol for nvidia, has his own pricing and his own public, his own "room".


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HeadlessKnight*
> 
> Titans are not pure gaming card. GK110 is a big high-end die that costs much more than GK104. GM204 is the mid-spec'd chip of Maxwell, same as GK104, it cost less to manufacture than GK110 and is likely to be priced less than GK110 variants of cards.


Titan's were aimed at prosumer use, and gamers ended up buying them anyway. NV now has this idea in their head that gamers will simply pay more in order to get the best.


----------



## zealord

hmm weird. 3 different german shops have the ASUS GTX780TI-DC2-3GD5 DirectCU II listed for 429€ which is super cheap considering it normally goes for 600€. Although they are only listed as "ordered" I don't think that 3 different shops which are independent from each other have them listed at that price can be a mistake.

Zotac and Gigabyte 780 TIs are 499€, also a good price. If the 980 comes in at 650€/$ and the 970 at 500€/$ there is no reason to buy one.

Well when the 980 costs more than 500$ I probably will just buy a plethora of random PS4 games and play them instead of bothering with inflated GPU prices, late PC games release dates (GTA V) and unoptimised stutteringfest (Dead Rising 3).

Can you guys check what the prices in your country are? Any changes to the 780 Ti?


----------



## rv8000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> I still don't understand where people get this from. Prices vary by generation.


It's just speculation. The past two-three years have changed a lot from where I sit, we've gone from having the high end cards being ~500 to having the 780, 780ti, titan, titan black, and 295x2 being $650, $750, $1000 and so on. Even now that the market has settled 290/290x had their time of crazy pricing, I guess you could say the 7970 as well. If the 780/780ti are going EOL then I can see the $399/$499 price point, but if they're going to stay around for a little while it'd be cutting into their own sales; I may be naive in believing consumers are technically well informed as to what they're buying







. From a performance stand point Nvidia also has the freedom to price cards how they want, and if the market supports it that's how its going to be. None of this means I'm right , it's just speculation. We'll see in a few days. It's not like I want them to charge so much for the cards as I'd like to pick up a 970 if they do have great oc headroom on air, that's just how i see it.


----------



## frag06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omarh2o*
> 
> Where are they selling a 780 ti for 570? i might buy another then. Cheapest ive seen is $670 which is the evga reference model.


EVGA has their reference PCB 780 Ti on sale for $619. You just have to use the promo code EVGA99189.


----------



## fleetfeather

inb4 wccf


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> 
> 
> inb4 wccf


LOL


----------



## szeged

lololol


----------



## Olivon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frag06*
> 
> If that is true, the 970 and 980 are awfully close together performance wise. From these benchmarks, the 980 is around 10% - 15% faster than a 780 Ti.
> 
> If the rumored prices are true, spending an extra $100 would only get you an extra ~10% or so. Wouldn't be worth a $150 increase (i.e. if 970 is $500 and 980 is $650, like some have speculated).


Regarding last generations, it was the same, 680 and 670 was really near and some 670 customs did in fact better than reference 680 for lesser price.
Even way worst, Titan and GTX 780 : 1000$ vs 650$ with -5% performance for the 780.

If 970 is priced agressively and offers near 780Ti class performance, it could become a really interesting card. 379$ seems a good spot to me.


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> 
> 
> inb4 wccf


Here is the image we will see there


----------



## szeged

you forgot to put their watermark all over it so they can claim they found it first.


----------



## SoloCamo

My only concern with these cards is the (seemingly) low bandwidth. Unless they've got really good clocking memory on board, I see them not really competing with the 290/290x/780/780ti in higher res and/or high AA scenarios.


----------



## Olivon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> Can you guys check what the prices in your country are? Any changes to the 780 Ti?


Nothing really notable here in France, 780Ti remains expensive card, around 600€ on average.


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> My only concern with these cards is the (seemingly) low bandwidth. Unless they've got really good clocking memory on board, I see them not really competing with the 290/290x/780/780ti in higher res and/or high AA scenarios.


256-bit in 1440p+, no









If the cards are faster than 780 Ti, why nvidia bothers to buff them, it has no purpose.

Also mainstream gets 256-bit and high-end gets more. Thats their plan.

I wonder for how long they will do this. Beating with 256-bit a card with 384-bit. They reached already the limit of DDR5. Maybe new GDDR ?


----------



## vallonen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> Damn, deciding between a PS4 or a GTX 970...


Shouldn't be a decision to begin with, you outgrew the toddler box when you turned 12.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Lightning probably won't be available day 1.


I could probs get around a 970 Hawk... of course, the price has to be right tho.


----------



## Olivon

GTX 980 3-Way SLi score here :



http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2737965


----------



## fleetfeather

Dem drivers haha.

Also, benching 3-way on a pleb-tier Z87-A mobo? Have a little respect for yourself.....


----------



## Wihglah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> hmm weird. 3 different german shops have the ASUS GTX780TI-DC2-3GD5 DirectCU II listed for 429€ which is super cheap considering it normally goes for 600€. Although they are only listed as "ordered" I don't think that 3 different shops which are independent from each other have them listed at that price can be a mistake.
> 
> Zotac and Gigabyte 780 TIs are 499€, also a good price. If the 980 comes in at 650€/$ and the 970 at 500€/$ there is no reason to buy one.
> 
> Well when the 980 costs more than 500$ I probably will just buy a plethora of random PS4 games and play them instead of bothering with inflated GPU prices, late PC games release dates (GTA V) and unoptimised stutteringfest (Dead Rising 3).
> 
> Can you guys check what the prices in your country are? Any changes to the 780 Ti?


I'm seeing Asus 780tis discounted in the UK as well.


----------



## Olivon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Dem drivers haha.
> 
> Also, benching 3-way on a pleb-tier Z87-A mobo? Have a little respect for yourself.....


Sorry, I edited, bad link


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Olivon*
> 
> Sorry, I edited, bad link


look at that improvement


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Dem drivers haha.
> 
> Also, benching 3-way on a pleb-tier Z87-A mobo? Have a little respect for yourself.....


That there is a top


----------



## Olivon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> look at that improvement


Scaling seems really good on this bench :



http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2733501



http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2737384



http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2737965

2 last scores are made on the same system.


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Olivon*
> 
> Scaling seems really good on this bench :
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2733501
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2737384
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2737965


Seems to be 100% at 2 way... about 85% at 3 way


----------



## szeged

inb4 3dmark mods just trolling everyone with fake scores.


----------



## jdstock76

Did I miss something? 8xx series aren't even out yet. How the heck are there 9xx benches?


----------



## szeged

you must have missed the entire 8 series after being in that coma for two years, i thought we told you when you woke up finally. That was a brutal car accident.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frag06*
> 
> If that is true, the 970 and 980 are awfully close together performance wise. From these benchmarks, the 980 is around 10% - 15% faster than a 780 Ti.
> 
> If the rumored prices are true, spending an extra $100 would only get you an extra ~10% or so. Wouldn't be worth a $150 increase (i.e. if 970 is $500 and 980 is $650, like some have speculated).


*Prays*
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vallonen*
> 
> Shouldn't be a decision to begin with, you outgrew the toddler box when you turned 12.


Haha, I game on both PC and Consoles, consoles mainly for the exclusives and for friends.
I can date PC Gaming back to when I was 11, even before that on my bros gaming PC, I kinda started being primarily a PC Gamer when I turned 13 and got my first gaming PC.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> you must have missed the entire 8 series after being in that coma for two years, i thought we told you when you woke up finally. That was a brutal car accident.


The dark comedy is strong.


----------



## mcg75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MunneY*
> 
> Seems to be 100% at 2 way... about 85% at 3 way


Now that would be of interest to anyone running SLI currently.

If the 980 is 15% faster and scales better on SLI, it may be worth looking into.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> Another site crediting OCN: http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/zotac-geforce-gtx-970-photo.html


And people mocked me when I said completely made-up rumors can echo-chamber themselves into things "everyone knows."


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> I could probs get around a 970 Hawk... of course, the price has to be right tho.


970 Hawk even at 449 would be worth it. Hawks are worth every freaking penny


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcg75*
> 
> Just for fun for anybody who is curious.
> 
> Here's a 780 Ti SLI run using Skyn3t's bios at it's default clock of 1045 mhz.
> 
> I have it on a comparison page with one of the higher 980 SLI scores.
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/2737362/fs/2742655


My dual Titans at just 1280MHz got a GPU score of 26k+ (see my sig). Of course there is a lot more headroom for those 980's I'm sure but Titans and 780Ti's are still going to be far from obsolete...


----------



## orick

Asus GeForce GTX 780 Ti 3GB DirectCU II Video Card is at $655 here in canada, which I think is all time low.

So I am guessing 980 launch at $699 here and probably $599 in US. Not really great price but low enough to entice ppl to upgrade.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I may be crazy but for some reason I really think Nvidia will drop this 980 at the traditional price of $499 with the 970 at $399. I typically don't give them the benefit of the doubt with pricing but I think they really want to make a splash with this card and since the performance isn't OMG-better than the 780Ti, price will be an important factor...


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I may be crazy but for some reason I really think Nvidia will drop this 980 at the traditional price of $499 with the 970 at $399. I typically don't give them the benefit of the doubt with pricing but I think they really want to make a splash with this card and since the performance isn't OMG-better than the 780Ti, price will be an important factor...


only when people stop selling kidneys for high-end nvidia card







The problem is people still buy them even at ridiculous prices.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acupalypse*
> 
> only when people stop selling kidneys for high-end nvidia card
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is people still buy them even at ridiculous prices.


Eh, I've been getting along quite fine with only kidney since buying my Titans last year!


----------



## krel

Wonder if they'd take a nut. I'm still using my kidneys.


----------



## i7monkey

Remember when we used to pay $229 for midrange GPus? wut happened????









How outraged would you be if they sold a GTX 460 for $499 or $699? You'd boycott Nvidia.

Why do these pricks think they can get away with this?


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Well to be fair the 980 performs well enough to be a flagship card so they can charge flagship prices. I just will hang on to my Titans until the real big Maxwell releases...


----------



## MURDoctrine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Remember when we used to pay $229 for midrange GPus? wut happened????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How outraged would you be if they sold a GTX 460 for $499 or $699? You'd boycott Nvidia.
> 
> Why do these pricks think they can get away with this?


Market driven inflation happened.....lol idk I just made that up









I know what you mean. My SLi 460's were BEAST back in the day and only at 200-250 each you couldn't beat that perfomance/price ratio. What has really screwed us all over was the huge crypto currency boom that saw AMD's prices soar. This gave Nvidia the headroom to keep their prices up where they were and have people still buying their cards left and right. Plus there will always be people that money isn't an issue who will buy the best for whatever the cost.


----------



## enyownz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Remember when we used to pay $229 for midrange GPus? wut happened????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How outraged would you be if they sold a GTX 460 for $499 or $699? You'd boycott Nvidia.
> 
> Why do these pricks think they can get away with this?


Mid-range cards use to play games on medium on old games and they have come leaps and bounds since then. You can play almost any game at high to ultra still for $200-$250 (r9 280 or gtx 760). I don't get what point you are trying to make, but just because people are calling the GTX 980 a 'midrange' card doesn't make it a midrange card. I know people like having high end cards but what does it matter if you are playing at 1080p? 4K is still at early adoption stage, so of course you are going to pay a premium on everything to get the full experience.


----------



## krel

I wonder how difficult it's going to be to get multiple cards at launch.


----------



## MURDoctrine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krel*
> 
> I wonder how difficult it's going to be to get multiple cards at launch.


I'm hoping I can snag a 980 at launch if the prices aren't too bad. I don't care if we only have reference as I will be watercooling it anyway.


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MURDoctrine*
> 
> I'm hoping I can snag a 980 at launch if the prices aren't too bad. I don't care if we only have reference as I will be watercooling it anyway.


Me too, but I'm hoping to be able to pick up two or three. Guess we'll know soon.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I I think they really want to make a splash with this card and since the performance isn't OMG-better than the 780Ti, price will be an important factor...


Based on which gaming chart? Oh wait..... There isn't any yet.


----------



## tajoh111

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Remember when we used to pay $229 for midrange GPus? wut happened????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How outraged would you be if they sold a GTX 460 for $499 or $699? You'd boycott Nvidia.
> 
> Why do these pricks think they can get away with this?


It all started this gen with the 7970 initial pricing. I suspect when AMD brought out the x970 series starting with the 6970 series, they intended to raise of the price of their videocards. However gtx 580 really came and put those plans on the backburner.

When they were first to the market with the 7970, they priced their cards like Nvidia cards and their high end. Particularly for the size(about 352mm2, about the size of a gtx 460 chip), the 7970 was an exceptionally expensive chip. The new r9 285, which are 250 dollars(probably 300 for r9 285x), which are slightly bigger dies confirm this.

AMD high end has for the last few years, been really just midrange chips(between 280- 370mm2), but because it was AMD fastest, it was high end. But compared to the manufacturing cost and the research and developement of Nvidia's true high end, AMD flagship chips are vastly cheaper to make.

AMD got away with this because their cards were gaming specific while Nvidia's were generally compute orientated. As a result, AMD cards performed well for their size against Nvidia's high end. Atleast for the 4870-280x years, 5870-6970, gtx 480-580 years.

AMD got cocky and thought the same thing was going to happen with the 7970, so they priced it really high, for what really was a mid-range sized chip. With this move AMD repriced midrange chips and effected the course of current GPU pricing. The gtx 780 and 780 ti performed at a higher tier of performance compared to the 680 and 7970 and their price reflected that.

AMD made a bit of a comeback by actually designing something that was a big monolithic chip that performed in the same tier as Nvidia's high end, but by then, it was too late to reset the pricing of the GPU landscape.

If the 7970 had come out at $379, I suspect all cards would be 150 dollars cheaper in general. E.g a $349 gtx 660 or 680(this would be a full gk104), a 550 dollar gtx 780 ti and $449 gtx 780 etc.


----------



## SoloCamo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tajoh111*
> 
> It all started this gen with the 7970 initial pricing. I suspect when AMD brought out the x970 series starting with the 6970 series, they intended to raise of the price of their videocards. However gtx 580 really came and put those plans on the backburner.
> 
> When they were first to the market with the 7970, they priced their cards like Nvidia cards and their high end. Particularly for the size(about 352mm2, about the size of a gtx 460 chip), the 7970 was an exceptionally expensive chip. The new r9 285, which are 250 dollars(probably 300 for r9 285x), which are slightly bigger dies confirm this.
> 
> AMD high end has for the last few years, been really just midrange chips(between 280- 370mm2), but because it was AMD fastest, it was high end. But compared to the manufacturing cost and the research and developement of Nvidia's true high end, AMD flagship chips are vastly cheaper to make.
> 
> AMD got away with this because their cards were gaming specific while Nvidia's were generally compute orientated. As a result, AMD cards performed well for their size against Nvidia's high end. Atleast for the 4870-280x years, 5870-6970, gtx 480-580 years.
> 
> AMD got cocky and thought the same thing was going to happen with the 7970, so they priced it really high, for what really was a mid-range sized chip. With this move AMD repriced midrange chips and effected the course of current GPU pricing. The gtx 780 and 780 ti performed at a higher tier of performance compared to the 680 and 7970 and their price reflected that.
> 
> AMD made a bit of a comeback by actually designing something that was a big monolithic chip that performed in the same tier as Nvidia's high end, but by then, it was too late to reset the pricing of the GPU landscape.
> 
> If the 7970 had come out at $379, I suspect all cards would be 150 dollars cheaper in general. E.g a $349 gtx 660 or 680(this would be a full gk104), a 550 dollar gtx 780 ti and $449 gtx 780 etc.


How long have you been around the gpu scene? I assure you not very long if you think the 7970 was the trend setter for high priced cards.


----------



## scotthulbs

It's pretty simple, we consumers set the price. If we don't buy $700 cards they would have to lower the price to move their product. Problem is many people have more money than sense these days, or more likely have access to easy money thanks to credit cards.


----------



## tajoh111

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> How long have you been around the gpu scene? I assure you not very long if you think the 7970 was the trend setter for high priced cards.


A very long time. The pricing of AMD cards have always had an impact, particularly their first cards on the entire generation. The 7970 is no exception.

E.g if we look at the 5870, that sort out pricing with nvidia and their cards that generation. Similarly, the 4870 and their low pricing, reset the pricing of Nvidias high end.

What do those two generations have in common. AMD picked the value angle and although Nvidia picked the high price due to brand leadership, pricing stayed on 499. If we look at the 800xt platinum era and the 1950xtx platinum era, the price of videocards are just as high as today more or less with inflation. The price of the 8800 gtx raised it a bit above this but its understandable, they were taking monolithic chips and shipping these cards first for a new generation which meant awful yields.

Remember the pricing of the 4870 was 299(the gtx 280 had to take a 150 price drop because of this) and the pricing of the 5870 was 379(the price of the gtx 480 was limited to 500).

So what happens when the 7970 comes out first is priced at $550. Does Nvidia price their card at its original midrange price(which would kill AMD) or price it according to the performance vs the competition(this is the move they do of course to make more money). They price it at $499 and the rest of Nvidias line and AMD line shift accordingly.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Remember when we used to pay $229 for midrange GPus? wut happened????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How outraged would you be if they sold a GTX 460 for $499 or $699? You'd boycott Nvidia.
> 
> Why do these pricks think they can get away with this?


It's too late to complain now bud, the 680 sold so well compared to what the competition had to offer at the time. They're about to do it again, all you can do is vote with your wallet. The 980 will sell like crazy if it ends up being ~15% faster than the 780Ti at $499. Heck I may even buy one, though I really want to hold out for GM210 the moment it comes out.

Just for kicks, I did some Googling. This is straight from the 680 Reviews Thread. Some people thought I was talking rubbish back then








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> No one believes that the 680 is a mainstream card at that price, you can't deny the fact that the GK104 is a mainstream *CHIP* though, that's the point.
> 
> If you look at the chip size and *specs* of your 480 vs a 460, this becomes clear.
> 
> Nvidia HAD to do something to counter the 7970, and GK100 wasn't ready, had issues, or whatever, we don't know what happened to it.
> 
> I look forward to GK110 ( 780? ) the true High End chip.
> 
> The GTX 680 has FP performance cut back even further to 1/24 FP32!
> 
> This is afterall a *MAINSTREAM card, delivering high end gaming performance*. Nvidia has Quadros for all your compute power needs.


Trying to explain this to people back then was tough. *This post was fun too*. lol

Go read that thread, good times!


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> I may be crazy but for some reason I really think Nvidia will drop this 980 at the traditional price of $499 with the 970 at $399. I typically don't give them the benefit of the doubt with pricing but I think they really want to make a splash with this card and since the performance isn't OMG-better than the 780Ti, price will be an important factor...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Remember when we used to pay $229 for midrange GPus? wut happened????
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How outraged would you be if they sold a GTX 460 for $499 or $699? You'd boycott Nvidia.
> 
> Why do these pricks think they can get away with this?


I don't know about mid-range but I could swear mid-high cards like the 4850 and 4870 from AMD were in-between £100-250 and $199 to $299, and also in the 8000 series where Nvidia had a dozen 8800 cards, those were around £160-229 and $199-279, counting the GT and GTS and not the GTX and Ultra cards.
I'm was too young to remember this so I'm just going by research.

The chances are that the 970 and 980 will be high-end, it's just everyone is focused on the big-die and calling is them mid-range, which doesn't entirely make sense when these are likely to be among the highest performing GPUs available.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *enyownz*
> 
> Mid-range cards use to play games on medium on old games and they have come leaps and bounds since then. You can play almost any game at high to ultra still for $200-$250 (r9 280 or gtx 760). I don't get what point you are trying to make, but just because people are calling the GTX 980 a 'midrange' card doesn't make it a midrange card. I know people like having high end cards but what does it matter if you are playing at 1080p? 4K is still at early adoption stage, so of course you are going to pay a premium on everything to get the full experience.


This!

The 760 and R9 280 do high to ultra like it's nothing, I ran The Crew at 60fps maxed out at 1080p on a stock clocked R9 280, with the exception of HBAO+ maybe being off, I'm not certain.

This is why the PS4 is doing so damn well at the moment, in both visuals and performance.
Sure it's not toppling high-end machines, or even "mid-high" mid-range machines, but it's doing what similarly spec'd mid-range PCs are doing.

In terms of graphical power I'm talking about the 260X-265 (7790-7850), which are £100-110 GPUs now, ofcourse the 270 will offer better performance and visuals, however the PS4's GPU power squeezes in between the 7850 and the 7870.

EuroGamer's: Digital Foundry vs. inFamous: Second Son
Quote:


> At last, we have an entire city at our disposal with more than enough detail to support any experience you could imagine. *The power to deliver visuals of this calibre has existed for years on the PC, but it's only when developers are freed from the shackles of last-generation consoles that we can begin to see what the DX11-class hardware is truly capable of.*


The PS4 can easily be looked at as a highly affordable and accessible entrance to "low-mid" mid-range PC visuals and performance. (260X-270 class visuals, the performance is a quite bit lower than the 270 in raw power but it's still something).

Being heavily modified and also slightly under-clocked technology dating back to GCN 1.0 but also being updated and sharing improvements such as the 8 ACEs of the R9 290 and 290X, it's set a whole new benchmark and perhaps even an industry standard of hardware for game developers to aim for, that's what good about consoles.

However technology simply progresses to fast so in a few months it wont look so great on paper, the 5770/6770 from 2009-2011 (6770 is a 2011 refresh of the 5770 from 2009) was already around 4x more powerful than the PS3 and the Xbox 360 in Digital Foundry's £300 2012 build, that was only a mid-range part too.


----------



## 2010rig

@TopicClocker When people classify NVIDIA chips as "Mid-Range" they are *NOT* referring to the prices they are being sold at. But rather NVIDIA's lineup itself.

*GK104* = Mid Range Chip



*GK110* - High End



After Fermi, things shifted because NVIDIA's mid-range previously sold for $249. GK104 was able to beat the $550 7970 by 10% *at launch*, they sold it for $499. Win-Win ( for NVIDIA ) Right there and then is when GPU prices doubled for NVIDIA. ( AMD had already increased their pricing with 6970 $350 --> 7970 $550, since the 7970 was faster than 580. )

GF104 - $249 --> GK104 - $499
GF110 - $499 --> GK110 - $999 Titan, $699 780Ti, 780 $650 it only dropped to $499 when 290X arrived.

Competition and lack thereof do affect overall GPU pricing.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> @TopicClocker When people classify NVIDIA chips as "Mid-Range" they are *NOT* referring to the prices they are being sold at. But rather NVIDIA's lineup itself.
> 
> *GK104* = Mid Range Chip
> 
> 
> 
> *GK110* - High End
> 
> 
> 
> After Fermi, things shifted because NVIDIA's mid-range previously sold for $249. GK104 was able to beat the $550 7970 by 10% *at launch*, they sold it for $499. Win-Win ( for NVIDIA ) Right there and then is when GPU prices doubled for NVIDIA. ( AMD had already increased their pricing with 6970 $350 --> 7970 $550, since the 7970 was faster than 580. )
> 
> GF104 - $249 --> GK104 - $499
> GF110 - $499 --> GK110 - $999 Titan, $699 780Ti, 780 $650 it only dropped to $499 when 290X arrived.
> 
> Competition and lack thereof do affect overall GPU pricing.


Yeah I know, that's why I said
Quote:


> The chances are that the 970 and 980 will be high-end, *it's just everyone is focused on the big-die* and calling is them mid-range,


I wasn't talking about Maxwell's pricing specifically in that post, just of how older GPUs were priced.

The GPU pricing is interesting though, thanks.

I was basically trying to say if they're among the highest performing GPUs or one of them are then its high-end to what's currently available out there.

I'm hoping Nvidia will stuff the 980 with all the cores they can fit on the small die, with the 970 not to far behind


----------



## fleetfeather

Welp, just sold off my backup waterblocked 660. guess I'm destined for a 780 or 970 then...


----------



## Alatar

For some reason the TPU gpu database now includes TDP info for 980/970. Could be real or not:

980:
Quote:


> TDP: 175W


http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2621/geforce-gtx-980.html

970:
Quote:


> TDP: 156W


http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2620/geforce-gtx-970.html


----------



## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> For some reason the TPU gpu database now includes TDP info for 980/970. Could be real or not:
> 
> 980:
> http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2621/geforce-gtx-980.html
> 
> 970:
> http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2620/geforce-gtx-970.html


So how cool is a stock reference 980 going to be if the Titan was 80C and the 780Ti was 83 given the TDPs?


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> So how cool is a stock reference 980 going to be if the Titan was 80C and the 780Ti was 83 given the TDPs?


NV's temp target will keep the fan speeds pretty much as low as possible until the GPU hits the temp limit. And I doubt they're changing the temp limit from 80C.

Also the 980 will probably get a 770/780/Titan cooler.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Welp, just sold off my backup waterblocked 660. guess I'm destined for a 780 or 970 then...


Considering stock-OC AIB cards will come at these speeds....: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2734193 I think a 970 is a no-brainer, with plenty more OC headroom







. That's only 1140mhz. EDIT: According to TPU GPU DB of a bunch of different cards, 1178mhz should be the reference boost clock for the GTX 970







.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Wowwwwww, what a boost clock out of the box: http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/b3051/palit-gtx-970-jetstream.html 1280mhz rated boost







.



Other images:

Reference GTX 970 card?


Reference GTX 980 specs!


Reference GTX 970 specs!


----------



## Menta

get the feeling these cards are going to OC like crazy


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> get the feeling these cards are going to OC like crazy


Yeah, me too... big question marks left are pricing and 4k performance now to me at least. We've seen 2560x1440 firestrike extreme mode scores that stayed strong... we've seen specs that should be right... we've seen the launch date... we've seen product boxes and card photos... and we've seen 1080p performance in 3dmark... which while not a direct translation into gaming benchmarks, usually is a good rough guide.


----------



## Menta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Yeah, me too... big question marks left are pricing and 4k performance now to me at least. We've seen 2560x1440 firestrike extreme mode scores that stayed strong... we've seen specs that should be right... we've seen the launch date... we've seen product boxes and card photos... and we've seen 1080p performance in 3dmark... which while not a direct translation into gaming benchmarks, usually is a good rough guide.


YES, we can consider this being solid Info, like i said to many buzzes and proof to be considered rumors.

price is in NV hands, still hope they will price the cards on a mainstream basis logic like many seem to believe, also seeing some stores flushing out the 780\ti, one of the biggest stores in my country are all out of 780\ti .

new tech aka "Maxwell" could redefine prices for now and seeing so much hasty movement from retailers maybe backs that up

point two, big splash party 18th seems big and for the "players"

three, Maxwell will be around for a long time they will stretch performance and gains later on

all the stars are lined up for Nvidia and a 500$ price point for the 980 would do wonders for Nvidia at this point


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> YES, we can consider this being solid Info, like i said to many buzzes and proof to be considered rumors.
> 
> price is in NV hands, still hope they will price the cards on a mainstream basis logic like many seem to believe, also seeing some stores flushing out the the 780\ti, one of the biggest stores in my country are all out of 780\ti .
> 
> new tech aka "Maxwell" could redefine prices for now and seeing so much hasty movement from retailers maybe backs that up
> 
> point two, big splash party 18th seems big and for the "players"
> 
> three, Maxwell will be around for a long time they will stretch performance and gains later on
> 
> all the stars are lined up for Nvidia and a 500$ price point for the 980 would do wonders for Nvidia at this point


Good points all around







. And yeah, newegg keeps putting huge sales on their 780/780 Ti cards now, I've seen them as cheap as $530AR + free borderlands game on some models already. OCuk is flushing them, and amazon is already slashing their prices with many models fully out of stock. Nvidia has touted Maxwell as something special before... if they can hit a $500 price point on the GTX 980 it's going to be a heck of a coup, both market-wise and towards their brand image.


----------



## Roelv

I looks more and more like these cards will only have a single Displayport, maybe I will also wait for GM210 after all.


----------



## JONSTARKS

stock 980 seems to be matching my 780ti @ 1150mhz (which is what it runs at stock)...

will be skipping this generation.

I hope by that time will have GPUs that can push 4k 60fps w/ no issues.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JONSTARKS*
> 
> stock 980 seems to be matching my 780ti @ 1150mhz (which is what it runs at stock)...
> 
> will be skipping this generation.
> 
> I hope by that time will have GPUs that can push 4k 60fps w/ no issues.


So a reference 980 @ 1178mhz matches your high/moderately-high air OC 24/7 stability setup, and despite having tons more in the tank (I'd be shocked if we don't see 1400-1450+mhz oc's relatively commonly) and costing hundred*s* less ($730 for an AIB like yours vs. possibly as low as $500 on the 980), coming with 1gb more of VRAM, running cooler and quieter, you dismiss it as useless? Sounds legit.









Sold my 780 a few ago and am hopping on whatever is $1k/less in SLI... price-perf, thermals, noise, and power draw all look to be jumping nicely, plus more vram is never a bad thing







.

-Written from my UP2414Q 60hz IPS @ 4k res.


----------



## CalinTM

MMM 1178 boost clock for 980 ?









Niiice, i can expect at least 1250 from the MSI Lightning edition. And + 200mhz manual OC

OMG !!!

And this a casual easy OC, no issues, and no high volts.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Kind of scary how close, as a random forum user, I was to being right as to the specs all the way back in mid-February _7 months ago_







:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1806694
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger on February 15th, 2014*
> *3 GPC units on 28nm taking around 420-430mm2 with this imaginary chip that would have 15 SMM units. 15 SMM units times 128 per unit would mean 1920 Maxwell cores.*
> 
> Pretend their scheduler is great and the performance scales well with core count and clocks, and that they kept the idea of triple everything there in this hypothetical, non-existent card that is an illustration only. So we'd have a 384 bit bus with *1920 Maxwell cores, probably 7ghz memory speed of GDDR5 like Kepler does at least, and a TDP that fits inside of 200 watts.* Now let's say that you only get about 75% scaling from core count here, which is reasonable even though Kepler scales pretty linearly, but it's a new architecture with Maxwell, so let's make the safe assumption. So a GTX 660 performs 12% better than a GM107 with 640 cores. Triple the core count there with our rough napkin math again with everything else and you would have a card *performing around the same as GK110 fully unlocked by that theory-crafting, at least, and it has better potential for higher clocks thanks to the lower power usage.*
> 
> *a card at 28nm with a 1085mhz GPU clock*


The only thing I was wrong on was the bus width needed to feed the cores... die size, clocks, tdp, shader count, even perf. I was pretty close on to (it looks like it's about 6-8% clock-for-clock better than the fully unlocked GK110). They chose to clock it around 9% higher stock to get a performance edge over the 780 Ti.

Quoted in full inside the spoiler:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I'm gonna go off the deep end here with a detailed guesswork at what we might see with GM200 at 20nm. THE RESULTS AND MATH IS THEORETICAL ONLY; THIS IS NOT BASED ON ANY SECRETLY-KNOWN INFO FOR UNRELEASED PRODUCTS. So rumor sites, don't post this up as anything if it's even half-sensible like I think. Feel free to use for a base of your own speculations the idea here, of course.



This slide says the case for Maxwell's first generation is reportedly, for the same performance level we should be seeing half the wattage used even on 28nm, and that per-core we are going to see a 35% gain (by their claims, at this point of course). So a card that would take Kepler 300w can be done in a 150w or less envelope is their claim, on 28nm even. That leaves a huge amount of extra power to continue stuffing in more cores and increasing clocks. Now add in that the Big Maxwell is going to be (GM200/204) on 20nm, and that improves power efficiency and die size usable even further. Now add in that this is Maxwell FIRST generation, for the GM107, and that GM200/204 are SECOND generation by all known info.... and we have a recipe for easily doubling the performance at least, if their claims are anywhere near true.

So, time for some math based on the theoretical and what is a real product launching in a couple of days (GTX 750 Ti).

GM107 has 5 SMM units containing 128 cuda cores, in each GPC. One GPC is what GM107 is using. It uses 60 watts for performance that is only beaten out by a GTX 660 by about 12% per the leaked benches. A GTX 660 has 960 Kepler cores, while a GM107 has 640 Maxwell cores. A GTX 660 uses a TDP rating of 140 watts. See an interesting number here?

960 is 50% more cores than the 640 ones Maxwell is using for the 750Ti. Now, it is around 12% slower there.... see the magic number close by? Nvidia claims a 35% performance increase PER CORE and additionally that the cores there will use only around half the power overall in TDP. Now extrapolate on some napkin math: the GM107 only has a 128-bit bus. That means the bandwidth efficiency is greatly improved because a GTX 650 Ti Boost is a huge amount above a GTX 650 Ti (192-bit vs. 128-bit bus widths and basically the same otherwise).

So it's safe to say that with 50% more bandwidth and 50% more cores, a GTX 660 only performing ~12% higher than a Maxwell part with slightly higher clocks is incredibly impressive. Now let's scale! We know at 28nm lithography that GM107 is around 148 square millimeters for the die size. Let's COMPLETELY IGNORE 20NM for a second here on the power savings and size! Forget about it for a minute. It would be extremely easy to see, since even on 28nm the reticule size is around 570mm2, that they could use 3 GPC units on 28nm taking around 420-430mm2 with this imaginary chip that would have 15 SMM units. 15 SMM units times 128 per unit would mean 1920 Maxwell cores.

Pretend their scheduler is great and the performance scales well with core count and clocks, and that they kept the idea of triple everything there in this hypothetical, non-existent card that is an illustration only. So we'd have a 384 bit bus with 1920 Maxwell cores, probably 7ghz memory speed of GDDR5 like Kepler does at least, and a TDP that fits inside of 200 watts. Now let's say that you only get about 75% scaling from core count here, which is reasonable even though Kepler scales pretty linearly, but it's a new architecture with Maxwell, so let's make the safe assumption. So a GTX 660 performs 12% better than a GM107 with 640 cores. Triple the core count there with our rough napkin math again with everything else and you would have a card performing around the same as GK110 fully unlocked by that theory-crafting, at least, and it has better potential for higher clocks thanks to the lower power usage.

However, in reality, we know they are going 20nm. This allows for even more power savings. This also allows for many more transistors per square mm on the die. So pretend they want to go for a 520mm2 chip on 20nm, keep costs down a tad for Big Maxwell and improve yields per wafer. According to released documents such as this: http://www.cadence.com/rl/Resources/overview/20nm_qa.pdf we can expect to see transistor counts possible of 8-12 billion. GK110 is 7.1 billion transistors. Using that as a point of reference, let's scale 28nm GK110 to 28nm Maxwell GM107: we need less memory controllers and pad space, so we can safely come up with a number in the neighborhood, considering the 148mm2 die size compared to GK110's 551mm2 size. At 20nm, you will be able to fit upwards of 11-12 billion transistors for a high-end part. For 28nm the 148mm2 die size indicates roughly 1.7-1.8 billion transistors with the 128-bit bus.

So now we have a decent number here: we know that Maxwell at 28nm in GM107 form is taking about 2 billion transistors to perform at a level about 89% as fast as a GK106. Let's use this as a base for the next part of this thought exercise







.

So 2 billion.... it's safe to say they could fit 7 GPC's at 20nm easily since 20nm should provide roughly a 2x density shrink in die size used per transistor, very easily, and we wouldn't need to duplicate memory controllers beyond 3x of the 28nm design's if we went for a 384-bit bus. At 20nm let's say they went for a 384-bit bus, to feed 7 GPC's worth of cores since the architecture is more bandwidth-efficient than Kepler, clearly by far. That'd give us 4480 Maxwell cores which already are much more bandwidth-efficient, so it probably would be plenty well-fed on that end of things.

Power-wise we'd be looking at an envelope of, 250 watts since Maxwell GM107 at 28nm takes a full-card power of 60w for 640 cores. That means probably around 45w for the GPU itself, allowing 10w for the GDDR5 and 5w for the fan and other circuitry. The move to 20nm will improve power efficiency drastically, due to the shorter gate lengths. So it's fair to say they could fit seven of those inside of that envelope, more than easily.

Again, let's go for a linear scaling factor of approximately 75% for the core count improvements... so we have a GTX 660 GK106 card we will use and compare to a GK110 780 Ti. A GTX 660 at 1080p is able to pull about 50% of the performance of a fully-unlocked, 780 Ti (source: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_780_Ti/27.html).

Now we know each SMM will provide around 90% of that performance, and revision 2.0 (second gen) on 20nm will probably be closer to a 100% figure. So let's conservatively say each SMM-based GPC results in a real-world performance of a GTX 660. In other words, around half of a 780 Ti. Now let's conservatively also say we only see the benefit of 75% of the cores when scaling it to 7 GPC's or 35 SMM's. 35 SMM's would be, as you recall 4480 maxwell cores. Multiply the performance of the 50% card by 7 and we'd have 350% (or 2.5x faster than) of the performance of a full GK110. However, let's now apply the 75% rough rule and we come up with a much more reasonable 262.5% of the performance, or 2.6x as fast as (1.6x faster than) a GTX 780 Ti.

My predictions, therefore, are that we will see a Big Maxwell on 20nm with at minimum twice the performance of a GTX 780 Ti, and by current rumors it is due this year. Add in that Maxwell will be able to clock higher at 20nm (I based those power figures off of the numbers above which were of a card at 28nm with a 1085mhz GPU clock, and realistically they can probably fit a stock core speed of 1100-1150mhz of this big a chip in then. Thus my predictions are we would see a 450-460mm2 die size for this hypothetical card, at 20nm, with a 250-260w TDP rating and thanks to the 2x transistor density, approximately 9.2b transistors.

Napkin math, for sure, but worth thinking about, eh?


----------



## CalinTM

Yeah yeah, now tell me when i will marry ??


----------



## Menta

When you come less to ocn then we know you probably married.


----------



## cstkl1

Once skyn3t bros mod thr bios.. Will buy it. Hoping they will hit 1400.


----------



## Alatar

750Ti bioses were modded before people even bought cards. You could just open and modify it in KBT. At least for the power limit.

Maybe the same will happen for 980s and 970s.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> When you come less to ocn then we know you probably married.










Couldn't have come up with a better sarcastic answer myself!


----------



## cstkl1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> 750Ti bioses were modded before people even bought cards. You could just open and modify it in KBT. At least for the power limit.
> 
> Maybe the same will happen for 980s and 970s.


But it does make one wonder how powerful a fully fledge maxwell is going to be. I expect 384-512bit. N the odd part .. Whats the new name gonna be ?? Gtx 1080ti??


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Kind of scary how close, as a random forum user, I was to being right as to the specs all the way back in mid-February _7 months ago_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :
> 
> http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1806694
> The only thing I was wrong on was the bus width needed to feed the cores... die size, clocks, tdp, shader count, even perf. I was pretty close on to (it looks like it's about 6-8% clock-for-clock better than the fully unlocked GK110). They chose to clock it around 9% higher stock to get a performance edge over the 780 Ti.
> 
> Quoted in full inside the spoiler:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm gonna go off the deep end here with a detailed guesswork at what we might see with GM200 at 20nm. THE RESULTS AND MATH IS THEORETICAL ONLY; THIS IS NOT BASED ON ANY SECRETLY-KNOWN INFO FOR UNRELEASED PRODUCTS. So rumor sites, don't post this up as anything if it's even half-sensible like I think. Feel free to use for a base of your own speculations the idea here, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> This slide says the case for Maxwell's first generation is reportedly, for the same performance level we should be seeing half the wattage used even on 28nm, and that per-core we are going to see a 35% gain (by their claims, at this point of course). So a card that would take Kepler 300w can be done in a 150w or less envelope is their claim, on 28nm even. That leaves a huge amount of extra power to continue stuffing in more cores and increasing clocks. Now add in that the Big Maxwell is going to be (GM200/204) on 20nm, and that improves power efficiency and die size usable even further. Now add in that this is Maxwell FIRST generation, for the GM107, and that GM200/204 are SECOND generation by all known info.... and we have a recipe for easily doubling the performance at least, if their claims are anywhere near true.
> 
> So, time for some math based on the theoretical and what is a real product launching in a couple of days (GTX 750 Ti).
> 
> GM107 has 5 SMM units containing 128 cuda cores, in each GPC. One GPC is what GM107 is using. It uses 60 watts for performance that is only beaten out by a GTX 660 by about 12% per the leaked benches. A GTX 660 has 960 Kepler cores, while a GM107 has 640 Maxwell cores. A GTX 660 uses a TDP rating of 140 watts. See an interesting number here?
> 
> 960 is 50% more cores than the 640 ones Maxwell is using for the 750Ti. Now, it is around 12% slower there.... see the magic number close by? Nvidia claims a 35% performance increase PER CORE and additionally that the cores there will use only around half the power overall in TDP. Now extrapolate on some napkin math: the GM107 only has a 128-bit bus. That means the bandwidth efficiency is greatly improved because a GTX 650 Ti Boost is a huge amount above a GTX 650 Ti (192-bit vs. 128-bit bus widths and basically the same otherwise).
> 
> So it's safe to say that with 50% more bandwidth and 50% more cores, a GTX 660 only performing ~12% higher than a Maxwell part with slightly higher clocks is incredibly impressive. Now let's scale! We know at 28nm lithography that GM107 is around 148 square millimeters for the die size. Let's COMPLETELY IGNORE 20NM for a second here on the power savings and size! Forget about it for a minute. It would be extremely easy to see, since even on 28nm the reticule size is around 570mm2, that they could use 3 GPC units on 28nm taking around 420-430mm2 with this imaginary chip that would have 15 SMM units. 15 SMM units times 128 per unit would mean 1920 Maxwell cores.
> 
> Pretend their scheduler is great and the performance scales well with core count and clocks, and that they kept the idea of triple everything there in this hypothetical, non-existent card that is an illustration only. So we'd have a 384 bit bus with 1920 Maxwell cores, probably 7ghz memory speed of GDDR5 like Kepler does at least, and a TDP that fits inside of 200 watts. Now let's say that you only get about 75% scaling from core count here, which is reasonable even though Kepler scales pretty linearly, but it's a new architecture with Maxwell, so let's make the safe assumption. So a GTX 660 performs 12% better than a GM107 with 640 cores. Triple the core count there with our rough napkin math again with everything else and you would have a card performing around the same as GK110 fully unlocked by that theory-crafting, at least, and it has better potential for higher clocks thanks to the lower power usage.
> 
> However, in reality, we know they are going 20nm. This allows for even more power savings. This also allows for many more transistors per square mm on the die. So pretend they want to go for a 520mm2 chip on 20nm, keep costs down a tad for Big Maxwell and improve yields per wafer. According to released documents such as this: http://www.cadence.com/rl/Resources/overview/20nm_qa.pdf we can expect to see transistor counts possible of 8-12 billion. GK110 is 7.1 billion transistors. Using that as a point of reference, let's scale 28nm GK110 to 28nm Maxwell GM107: we need less memory controllers and pad space, so we can safely come up with a number in the neighborhood, considering the 148mm2 die size compared to GK110's 551mm2 size. At 20nm, you will be able to fit upwards of 11-12 billion transistors for a high-end part. For 28nm the 148mm2 die size indicates roughly 1.7-1.8 billion transistors with the 128-bit bus.
> 
> So now we have a decent number here: we know that Maxwell at 28nm in GM107 form is taking about 2 billion transistors to perform at a level about 89% as fast as a GK106. Let's use this as a base for the next part of this thought exercise
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> So 2 billion.... it's safe to say they could fit 7 GPC's at 20nm easily since 20nm should provide roughly a 2x density shrink in die size used per transistor, very easily, and we wouldn't need to duplicate memory controllers beyond 3x of the 28nm design's if we went for a 384-bit bus. At 20nm let's say they went for a 384-bit bus, to feed 7 GPC's worth of cores since the architecture is more bandwidth-efficient than Kepler, clearly by far. That'd give us 4480 Maxwell cores which already are much more bandwidth-efficient, so it probably would be plenty well-fed on that end of things.
> 
> Power-wise we'd be looking at an envelope of, 250 watts since Maxwell GM107 at 28nm takes a full-card power of 60w for 640 cores. That means probably around 45w for the GPU itself, allowing 10w for the GDDR5 and 5w for the fan and other circuitry. The move to 20nm will improve power efficiency drastically, due to the shorter gate lengths. So it's fair to say they could fit seven of those inside of that envelope, more than easily.
> 
> Again, let's go for a linear scaling factor of approximately 75% for the core count improvements... so we have a GTX 660 GK106 card we will use and compare to a GK110 780 Ti. A GTX 660 at 1080p is able to pull about 50% of the performance of a fully-unlocked, 780 Ti (source: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_780_Ti/27.html).
> 
> Now we know each SMM will provide around 90% of that performance, and revision 2.0 (second gen) on 20nm will probably be closer to a 100% figure. So let's conservatively say each SMM-based GPC results in a real-world performance of a GTX 660. In other words, around half of a 780 Ti. Now let's conservatively also say we only see the benefit of 75% of the cores when scaling it to 7 GPC's or 35 SMM's. 35 SMM's would be, as you recall 4480 maxwell cores. Multiply the performance of the 50% card by 7 and we'd have 350% (or 2.5x faster than) of the performance of a full GK110. However, let's now apply the 75% rough rule and we come up with a much more reasonable 262.5% of the performance, or 2.6x as fast as (1.6x faster than) a GTX 780 Ti.
> 
> My predictions, therefore, are that we will see a Big Maxwell on 20nm with at minimum twice the performance of a GTX 780 Ti, and by current rumors it is due this year. Add in that Maxwell will be able to clock higher at 20nm (I based those power figures off of the numbers above which were of a card at 28nm with a 1085mhz GPU clock, and realistically they can probably fit a stock core speed of 1100-1150mhz of this big a chip in then. Thus my predictions are we would see a 450-460mm2 die size for this hypothetical card, at 20nm, with a 250-260w TDP rating and thanks to the 2x transistor density, approximately 9.2b transistors.
> 
> Napkin math, for sure, but worth thinking about, eh?


Golden look into that crystal ball and give me some lottery numbers


----------



## XT-107

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cstkl1*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> 750Ti bioses were modded before people even bought cards. You could just open and modify it in KBT. At least for the power limit.
> 
> Maybe the same will happen for 980s and 970s.
> 
> 
> 
> But it does make one wonder how powerful a fully fledge maxwell is going to be. I expect 384-512bit. N the odd part .. Whats the new name gonna be ?? Gtx 1080ti??
Click to expand...

GTX 1080PI


----------



## tpi2007

From the TPU GTX 980 and 970 datasheets:
Quote:


> We recommend the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 for gaming with highest details at resolutions up to, and including, 1920x1080.


They make GPU-Z, they have the specs, do they have the performance numbers too already ? Probably. Maybe they even tested GTA V and Half-Life 2: Episode 3 with it.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *JONSTARKS*
> 
> stock 980 seems to be matching my 780ti @ 1150mhz (which is what it runs at stock)...
> 
> will be skipping this generation.
> 
> I hope by that time will have GPUs that can push 4k 60fps w/ no issues.
> 
> 
> 
> So a reference 980 @ 1178mhz matches your high/moderately-high air OC 24/7 stability setup, and despite having tons more in the tank (I'd be shocked if we don't see 1400-1450+mhz oc's relatively commonly) and costing hundred*s* less ($730 for an AIB like yours vs. possibly as low as $500 on the 980), coming with 1gb more of VRAM, running cooler and quieter, you dismiss it as useless? Sounds legit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sold my 780 a few ago and am hopping on whatever is $1k/less in SLI... price-perf, thermals, noise, and power draw all look to be jumping nicely, plus more vram is never a bad thing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> -Written from my UP2414Q 60hz IPS @ 4k res.
Click to expand...

That's not what he said, he didn't even say it was useless. He said he's going to skip this generation.

In my opinion, it's a pretty defensible thing to do when you already have a GTX 780 Ti. This is akin to upgrading from SB to IB. At the high-end it's not worth it. Better wait for big die Maxwell.


----------



## provost

That's exactly how I read it too. Not sure what GT was going on about.....lol


----------



## G woodlogger

With a 250w power limit relative to 175w of gtx 980 that would give a big Maxwell(28nm) with max 2742 shaders. What are a realistic number?


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> That's exactly how I read it too. Not sure what GT was going on about.....lol


Was up all night and misread it







. I saw 4k and thought he was saying a 980 was pointless, haha. I agree, not a real upgrade from a 780ti necessarily (maybe 15pct oc to oc) but if money is factored in it is a smart one for 780 users at least, after selling your card. Or if going sli.


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *G woodlogger*
> 
> With a 250w power limit relative to 175w of gtx 980 that would give a big Maxwell(28nm) with max 2742 shaders. What are a realistic number?


Big maxwell will be on 20nm. And will have probably close to 3000 cuda cores. If 980 has 1920 cores, and its faster than 780 Ti with 2800 cuda cores. The big maxwell i expect very close to 3000 cuda cores. will be a monster.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Ok, I actually have a source inside nvidia but I promised I wouldn't tell so I won't it is mildly amusing watching you guys and gals speculate on price. Just for the record I will be buying a 980 to replace my 7950 and you all should know I am kind of a frugal person.

THAT being said.. You psychos are already talking about the naming scheme of the next gen?

Is it not obvious?

We had 680... Titan... 780...780ti... Titan Black... 980.... the next GEN of card will be called.. Magnum PI... game set match... make your checks out to ATTN: Darkpriest667


----------



## Threx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> Ok, I actually have a source inside nvidia but I promised I wouldn't tell so I won't it is mildly amusing watching you guys and gals speculate on price. Just for the record I will be buying a 980 to replace my 7950 and you all should know I am kind of a frugal person.


Cue WCCF's new article stating their insider has leaked info the 980 will cost $399.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Threx*
> 
> Cue WCCF's new article stating their insider has leaked info the 980 will cost $399.


VC will beat them to it I'm sure


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Threx*
> 
> Cue WCCF's new article stating their insider has leaked info the 980 will cost $399.


399? I got my 7950 for like 320 before MIR.... I said frugal!


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JONSTARKS*
> 
> stock 980 seems to be matching my 780ti @ 1150mhz (which is what it runs at stock)...
> 
> will be skipping this generation.
> 
> I hope by that time will have GPUs that can push 4k 60fps w/ no issues.


Based on what? 3dmark?...... some of you people i swear... sigh. You dont know anything until we see some gaming benchmarks.


----------



## cstkl1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> Based on what? 3dmark?...... some of you people i swear... sigh. You dont know anything until we see some gaming benchmarks.


Nvidia n amd takes syntethics seriously as well n uses it to justify each gen.

Anyways since its same driver platform it is a good indication.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cstkl1*
> 
> Nvidia n amd takes syntethics seriously as well n uses it to justify each gen.
> 
> Anyways since its same driver platform it is a good indication.


Im more interested in actual gaming benchmarks because well you know.... thats why I buy GPU's. Im not interested in epeenmark.


----------



## Stay Puft

1400 Core / 1800 mem GTX 980

http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2741313


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 1400 Core / 1800 mem GTX 980
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2741313


Thats kinda weak


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Thats kinda weak


What if its 1400 core on a reference card?


----------



## zealord

prices from a japanese site : http://www.gdm.or.jp/voices/2014/0913/85556

GTX 980 : 550€ - 650€ / 710$ - 840$
GTX 970 : 360€ - 430€ / 465$ - 560$

that is if you directly convert it. Dollar prices should be way lower. Probably same as euro prices.
The interesting thing is that the 980 seems to be like 50% more expensive than the 970. It either means there is a bigger gap between the 970 and 980 in performance or the price of the 980 is a mistake.
Although that would not make sense since the difference between the 670 (1344) and 680 (1536) cuda core count was also ~15% like with 970 (1664) and 980 (1920).

I just hope they will land at 399€/$ for the 970 and 499€/$ for the 980. The performance jump is just too small to justify higher prices. Many people, including me, would not buy a GTX 980 for 650€/$. We now have time to wait anyways since GTA V for PC is delayed to 2015 and there is less need for a GPU upgrade in the next 2-3 months. There still are a lot of games coming, but no graphical behemoths like GTA V, Witcher 3 and The Division which all are to release in 2015.


----------



## cstkl1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> Im more interested in actual gaming benchmarks because well you know.... thats why I buy GPU's. Im not interested in epeenmark.


N as far as i can remember for last decade or more of buying graphic cards.. Unless there is a change in direct x...Syntethic benchmark on two cards that are based of the same driver is a good indication of the performance gain which will reflect in games.


----------



## cstkl1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> Thats kinda weak


Most probably power limit. Hmm i wonder

On stock bios futuremark doest detect kepler real boost clock.

Might be the same issue??


----------



## hwoverclkd

Weak or not, it's definitely a bar higher than 780Ti. Target market won't be Ti / Titan owners IMO. The real deal is set for next year. So if current owners of 780 Ti upgrade to 980 then upgrade again to the upcoming release next year, nvidia is the clear winner...i think i know where to put my stocks next


----------



## szeged

If that 3dmark is true about the 1400 core, the only thing saving the 980 is if the 1400 core is equal to a 1200 core 780ti. 1400 core with that score is weak as ....you know.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> If that 3dmark is true about the 1400 core, the only thing saving the 980 is if the 1400 core is equal to a 1200 core 780ti. 1400 core with that score is weak as ....you know.


And do we even know if its real?


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> And do we even know if its real?


We dont know anything right now but that card cant possibly be 650 dollars. I wouldnt even pay 599 for that


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> And do we even know if its real?


Nothing is true real or confirmed until the nda is over. These rumor sites are just going full derp trying to get site traffic for now.

Nothing is true.

*Nothing*


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zealord*
> 
> prices from a japanese site : http://www.gdm.or.jp/voices/2014/0913/85556
> 
> GTX 980 : 550€ - 650€ / 710$ - 840$
> GTX 970 : 360€ - 430€ / 465$ - 560$
> 
> that is if you directly convert it. Dollar prices should be way lower. Probably same as euro prices.
> The interesting thing is that the 980 seems to be like 50% more expensive than the 970. It either means there is a bigger gap between the 970 and 980 in performance or the price of the 980 is a mistake.
> Although that would not make sense since the difference between the 670 (1344) and 680 (1536) cuda core count was also ~15% like with 970 (1664) and 980 (1920).
> 
> I just hope they will land at 399€/$ for the 970 and 499€/$ for the 980. The performance jump is just too small to justify higher prices. Many people, including me, would not buy a GTX 980 for 650€/$. We now have time to wait anyways since GTA V for PC is delayed to 2015 and there is less need for a GPU upgrade in the next 2-3 months. There still are a lot of games coming, but no graphical behemoths like GTA V, Witcher 3 and The Division which all are to release in 2015.


Wrong price, not gap between 970 and 980.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cstkl1*
> 
> N as far as i can remember for last decade or more of buying graphic cards.. Unless there is a change in direct x...Syntethic benchmark on two cards that are based of the same driver is a good indication of the performance gain which will reflect in games.


Yep, they're not a 1:1 representation because games vary but they're the fairest test between in those circumstances and give a very strong indication as to what you'll see in games.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cstkl1*
> 
> Most probably power limit. Hmm i wonder
> 
> On stock bios futuremark doest detect kepler real boost clock.
> 
> Might be the same issue??


Power limit I'd imagine, that's impressive even with that if it's like baby Maxwell where they almost all oc to 1400 core with ease... (some models like evga 750 ti FTW come out of the box at 1320+ in-game boost clocks).

"Graphics Score
13776 "

That's pretty strong, but I'm sure it has to be hitting the power limit which any bios change would alleviate as well as some AIB models out of the box I'd imagine







. it should be scaling much better score-wise than that.


----------



## cstkl1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> If that 3dmark is true about the 1400 core, the only thing saving the 980 is if the 1400 core is equal to a 1200 core 780ti. 1400 core with that score is weak as ....you know.


http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/4038093

1202 with the same mem speed that card was running at.

err no its actually strong looking at him doing it with windows 8.1. Afaik on graphic score 1300mhz on windows 8.1 close to 1200mhz on windows 7.


----------



## cstkl1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Yep, they're not a 1:1 representation because games vary but they're the fairest test between in those circumstances and give a very strong indication as to what you'll see in games.
> Power limit I'd imagine, that's impressive even with that if it's like baby Maxwell where they almost all oc to 1400 core with ease... (some models like evga 750 ti FTW come out of the box at 1320+ in-game boost clocks).
> 
> "Graphics Score
> 13776 "
> 
> That's pretty strong, but I'm sure it has to be hitting the power limit which any bios change would alleviate as well as some AIB models out of the box I'd imagine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . it should be scaling much better score-wise than that.


exactly. its strong. would have been a way higher on windows 7.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cstkl1*
> 
> exactly. its strong. would have been a way higher on windows 7.


Yea, the http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2741313 result of 13,776 on gtx 980 is with windows 8.1, good catch.


----------



## cstkl1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Yea, the http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2741313 result of 13,776 on gtx 980 is with windows 8.1, good catch.


had to bump the clock to 1280 to be close to that..
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm/4038275
interesting thing about that gtx980 score. the combine score is very low eventhough with a haswell-e

can futuremark scores be manipulated??


----------



## szeged

They can be manipulated and faked very easily.


----------



## routek

So a 980 1400 MHz GPU score at 13776 in fire strike

Looking at the 780ti GPU score at 1300 MHz its getting 14570
Second 780ti example running windows 8.1 at 1400 Mhz is 15494

Still not looking like 35% or smoking the 780ti. Seems they're just replacing the 780 second tier card for 780ti ish performance

With GTA V held back I'm not even going to bother getting a used 780/780ti or Titan. At least the new one has 4gb of standard in the gpu crawl


----------



## Exilon

If these TDPs are true, then that means Nvidia increased performance/watt over big Kepler by ~50% while cutting down die size, without a node shrink. How did they pull that off?

This is big news for the next GPUs on TSMC 20nm. Because power doesn't scale in step with density on a planar node of that size, energy efficient architectures like Maxwell is going to be crucial for high-end dies until TSMC gets FinFETs ready.

AMD better have something similarly magical for their next reveal.


----------



## Smanci

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Exilon*
> 
> If these TDPs are true, then that means Nvidia increased performance/watt over big Kepler by ~50% while cutting down die size, without a node shrink. How did they pull that off?
> 
> This is big news for the next GPUs on TSMC 20nm. Because power doesn't scale in step with density on a planar node of that size, energy efficient architectures like Maxwell is going to be crucial for high-end dies until TSMC gets FinFETs ready.
> 
> AMD better have something similarly magical for their next reveal.


This. We want some power comsumption tests!


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Guys, the ultimate performance of these mid range GM204 chips shouldn't be looked at by us high end enthusiasts as the end-all. Rather they should be looked at in terms of what the scaling up to big Maxwell GM200 will give us next year. With this kind of potential and headroom I would expect GM200 to be pretty special and a true successor to GK110...


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Guys, the ultimate performance of these mid range GM204 chips shouldn't be looked at by us high end enthusiasts as the end-all. Rather they should be looked at in terms of what the scaling up to big Maxwell GM200 will give us next year. With this kind of potential and headroom I would expect GM200 to be pretty special and a true successor to GK110...


yeah just imagine a 20nm 550+mm² fully unlocked Maxwell chip ... performance gonna be brutal.
But I think that is way off and before that we are going to see a big 28nm maxwell chip and smaller 20nm chips .

I am pretty sure that we are never going to see _*HUGE*_ performance jumps again, only 10-20% jumps over the previous biggest card.


----------



## Olivon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> 1400 Core / 1800 mem GTX 980
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2741313


Thanks !

Comparison with stock results here, apparently it's the same system :

http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/2740221/fs/2741313


----------



## Ghoxt

Assume for 1 minute that all these scores are credible which it sounds likely by the volume:

Who is looking to upgrade now to "Baby 28nm Maxwell"?

For gaming:

I'm running a single Titan. I've been able to play everything the last 20 months with no issues, including Watch Dogs (meh) and privately gloat when others said 6G was not needed the last year. Sorry couldn't help it.







I'll see if there's any reasonable upgrade path here. Oddly enough my Titan might still sell very well.

For my Rendering rig:

I can say right now I'm not looking to upgrade until the memory is larger so will wait for the later models. I'm not going backwards for my Rendering where I need to get complicated scenes in memory for my render farm. I'm either going to continue with buying more Titan Blacks and ignore baby Maxwell or try to grab multiple 780 6G. Admitedly this hobby is way too expensive when multiple GPU's are needed. sigh.

Overall I think I'll sit tight and wait for the next release whether it comes out in late 2014 or 1Q 2015 unless I'm shocked by something new we have not heard about.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> Assume for 1 minute that all these scores are credible which it sounds likely by the volume:
> 
> Who is looking to upgrade now to "Baby 28nm Maxwell"?
> 
> For gaming:
> I'm running a single Titan. I've been able to play everything the last 20 months with no issues, including Watch Dogs (meh) and privately gloat when others said 6G was not needed the last year. Sorry couldn't help it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll see if there's any reasonable upgrade path here. Oddly enough my Titan might still sell very well.
> 
> For my Rendering rig:
> I can say right now I'm not looking to upgrade until the memory is larger so will wait for the later models. I'm not going backwards for my Rendering where I need to get complicated scenes in memory for my render farm. I'm either going to continue with buying more Titan Blacks and ignore baby Maxwell or try to grab multiple 780 6G. Admitedly this hobby is way too expensive when multiple GPU's are needed. sigh.
> 
> Overall I think I'll sit tight and wait for the next release whether it comes out in late 2014 or 1Q 2015 unless I'm shocked by something new we have not heard about.


For my gaming rig, at least, I sold my single 780 (non-ti) a few ago when I upgraded to a Dell UP2414Q (4k 60hz ips) monitor and that card couldn't cut it anymore as well as I wanted. I got about $400 for it a bit ago... I'll either go up to two 980's if they hit at $499/ea or less, or two 970's if they hit at $399/ea or less. It'll come out a good margin faster with considerably less power draw, heat output, and noise, than going to a second 780 would have, while running about the same price I would have had to have paid to go sli with my existing 780 at the time.

The single 780 served me well with my 2560x1440 panel but I want more for 4k. I didn't want to shell out for two 780 Ti's @ $700+ each so waiting a month with my backup card has paid in spades







.


----------



## SoloCamo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> For my gaming rig, at least, I sold my single 780 (non-ti) a few ago when I upgraded to a Dell UP2414Q (4k 60hz ips) monitor and that card couldn't cut it anymore as well as I wanted. I got about $400 for it a bit ago... I'll either go up to two 980's if they hit at $499/ea or less, or two 970's if they hit at $399/ea or less. It'll come out a good margin faster with considerably less power draw, heat output, and noise, than going to a second 780 would have, while running about the same price I would have had to have paid to go sli with my existing 780 at the time.
> 
> The single 780 served me well with my 2560x1440 panel but I want more for 4k. I didn't want to shell out for two 780 Ti's @ $700+ each so waiting a month with my backup card has paid in spades
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Call me naive here, but isn't the bandwidth handicap really going to hurt the 970/980 at 4k, even in SLI?


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> Call me naive here, but isn't the bandwidth handicap really going to hurt the 970/980 at 4k, even in SLI?


we don't know how maxwell is going to perform there with a bigger cache and all that. Maxwell might be a pleasant suprise for 4K, but I doubt it. It is not like when the gtx 980 has 100fps on 1080p it is going to have 5 fps on 4K. I would not worry too much. People who can afford good 4K monitors are probably in for a GM200 anyways once they come out and worse case scenario GTX 980 is on par with 290X/780 Ti at 4K or marginally slower


----------



## tajoh111

I think gm104 for most people would be the replacement card for a gtx 680 or 7970. Considering the time period and price point, it seems appropriate. People that have 290x and gtx 780 ti are not going to see much of an upgrade.


----------



## CalinTM

Either buy only new stuff like Gk104 and GM204, or buy only high-end cards...


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tajoh111*
> 
> I think gm104 for most people would be the replacement card for a gtx 680 or 7970. Considering the time period and price point, it seems appropriate. People that have 290x and gtx 780 ti are not going to see much of an upgrade.


That. I have been considering the GTX 980 as an upgrade from my 7970, but honestly it will still be cheaper (About $275) to get a higher wattage PSU and add a second 7970. I don't see the 980 beating these in crossfire by any major margin, if at all, when even a 780ti doesn't really beat a crossfire/sli 7970/680 setup.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Should I return my ROG 780 Ti to Amazon? Didn't even open it yet.


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Should I return my ROG 780 Ti to Amazon? Didn't even open it yet.


I wouldn't, unless its not a major upgrade from your current card, which I don't see listed in your rig. Based on these benches the 980 looks to be pretty even with a 780ti.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Yes the rig needs updating a bit. The ROG Matrix 780 Ti is a bad ass looking card (dat heatsink!!). But it's 3GB vs 4GB, $740 vs $500, and halo flagship card vs launch cards. My card is faster than your average 780 Ti as well with a nice stock over clock.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Should I return my ROG 780 Ti to Amazon? Didn't even open it yet.


Depends how much you paid for it. Worst case scenario, you could buy one cheaper.


----------



## melodystyle2003

Wouldn't have bought the 780ti matrix if wasn't found it on very good price on ebay (factory sealed / new / 3y warranty).
Now, @neo zuko since you have a 30 day window, wait for the first officials reviews to see what you will do.


----------



## Neo Zuko

I paid $740 plus tax. But I just checked and now it is actually sold out on Amazon and Newegg and going for more form other less direct sources.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Considering stock-OC AIB cards will come at these speeds....: http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2734193 I think a 970 is a no-brainer, with plenty more OC headroom
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . That's only 1140mhz. EDIT: According to TPU GPU DB of a bunch of different cards, 1178mhz should be the reference boost clock for the GTX 970
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Should I return my ROG 780 Ti to Amazon? Didn't even open it yet.


Hmm, when these new cards release there may be a price drop within the next few days, I don't really know though, so I can't really say.
Everything we have heard currently are pretty much just rumors, but alot of these Firestrike benches are pretty convincing, you'll only know when the new cards are revealed by Nvidia.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *melodystyle2003*
> 
> Wouldn't have bought the 780ti matrix if wasn't found it on very good price on ebay (factory sealed / new / 3y warranty).
> Now, @neo zuko *since you have a 30 day window, wait for the first officials reviews to see what you will do.*


This is good.


----------



## Neo Zuko

And my return period is up on sept 19th... Was sitting on my desk for awhile. Tough choice.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> And my return period is up on sept 19th... Was sitting on my desk for awhile. Tough choice.


Would it be practical to return it and get it again if the new cards are not of your interest?
As 2010rig said.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Depends how much you paid for it. *Worst case scenario, you could buy one cheaper.*


----------



## melodystyle2003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> And my return period is up on sept 19th... Was sitting on my desk for awhile. Tough choice.


On amazon you can return it even if you ve used it, inside 30 days window.
So test it and check how it performs, wait until 14-15/09 for the first reviews, if some posted till then. If legit reviews are not posted, return it back and wait. You will be benefited anyway.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Right now it is practically sold out on the internet. It would be 980 or bust. I would lose perhaps $10 on shipping. And I'm not reliant on it to run my PC. Too busy to even game at the moment lol. So no, not a bother to return and even wait.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *melodystyle2003*
> 
> On amazon you can return it even if you ve used it, inside 30 days window.
> So test it and check how it performs, wait until 14-15/09 for the first reviews, if some posted till then. If legit reviews are not posted, return it back and wait. You will be benefited anyway.


When you say reviews, do you mean from review sites like Anandtech, Hexus, Legit Reviews and TechPowerUp, or user reviews?
As I thought nothing was allowed to get out until the 18th or whenever Nvidia reveals it.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Right now it is practically sold out on the internet. It would be 980 or bust. I would lose perhaps $10 on shipping. And I'm not reliant on it to run my PC. Too busy to even game at the moment lol. So no, not a bother to return and even wait.


So why'd you ask? lol

There are many 780Ti's still in stock, some as low as $589
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=780ti&N=-1&isNodeId=1


----------



## kostacurtas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> That. I have been considering the GTX 980 as an upgrade from my 7970, but honestly it will still be cheaper (About $275) to get a higher wattage PSU and add a second 7970. I don't see the 980 beating these in crossfire by any major margin, if at all, when even a 780ti doesn't really beat a crossfire/sli 7970/680 setup.


Cheaper yes, but better as a choice... I don't know...

Except you don't mind about: the much higher power consumption, 500W vs 175W, less VRAM, the known issues with SLI/Crossfire in some games, more noise & higher temps and partial support for DirectX 12.


----------



## Neo Zuko

None as cool as the matrix ROG.

Edit: but i return it for now, just needed to talk it out. Thanks!!


----------



## melodystyle2003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> When you say reviews, do you mean from review sites like Anandtech, Hexus, Legit Reviews and TechPowerUp, or user reviews?
> As I thought nothing was allowed to get out until the 18th or whenever Nvidia reveals it.


The proper word should have been "leaks" from previous confirmed / trusted origin.


----------



## Smokey the Bear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> None as cool as the matrix ROG.
> 
> Edit: but i return it for now, just needed to talk it out. Thanks!!


Just returned mine, but it had a plethora of issues and was a terrible performer.

If you water cool the ROG is limited in it's block selection, so I've personally chosen to go with a reference 780 ti instead, or if the 980 is actually slightly faster, than why not go for one of those?


----------



## crazycrave

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kostacurtas*
> 
> Cheaper yes, but better as a choice... I don't know...
> 
> Except you don't mind about: the much higher power consumption, 500W vs 175W, less VRAM, the known issues with SLI/Crossfire in some games, more noise & higher temps and partial support for DirectX 12.


We have yet to see how much power this 980GTX needs overclocked which scores about what 2 x7950's at stock speed does in FS which is around 13000+ gpu .. also if one has a mobo with 3way SLi or CX then there is no heat issue as the cards have 2 and 1/2 to 3 " of space in slot 1 and 3 .. also most of the AAA games have much better CX support then 1 year ago as AMD has frame pacing now in there drivers for HD79XX and we still have Mantle to look forward to which is more what DX 12 is base off of.


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cstkl1*
> 
> err no its actually strong looking at him doing it with windows 8.1. Afaik on graphic score 1300mhz on windows 8.1 close to 1200mhz on windows 7.


Sorry mate, I have to disagree..i'm getting better graphics scores on win 8.1 than on win 7









Win7:
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2665447

Win8:
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2645524

driver may have something to do with it though

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Yes the rig needs updating a bit. The ROG Matrix 780 Ti is a bad ass looking card (dat heatsink!!). But it's 3GB vs 4GB, $740 vs $500, and halo flagship card vs launch cards. My card is faster than your average 780 Ti as well with a nice stock over clock.


I would return it because 1) 780 Ti prices are now dropping, should wait for lower AND 2) I don't trust the matrix 780 Ti ...I don't hear much about from the users but complaints







They're not many so it's easy to spot who have problems.


----------



## kostacurtas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *crazycrave*
> 
> We have yet to see how much power this 980GTX needs overclocked which scores about what 2 x7950's at stock speed does in FS which is around 13000+ gpu .. also if one has a mobo with 3way SLi or CX then there is no heat issue as the cards have 2 and 1/2 to 3 " of space in slot 1 and 3 .. also most of the AAA games have much better CX support then 1 year ago as AMD has frame pacing now in there drivers for HD79XX and we still have Mantle to look forward to which is more what DX 12 is base off of.


Been there, done that!









I had 2 x Sapphire 7950 Vapor-X in crossfire and I went to a single GTX 780Ti.

I knew that I had to lost money and performance for that change, but I did it and I was very happy in the end.

Everyone making his choices, but after I used both solutions the single card GPU will be my way to go in the future too. Smoother gaming experience, less power consumption, etc.

Regarding Mantle and DX12. Yes, both are low level API that can help when you have weak CPU with strong GPU, but DX12 will have more features that will be available only in DX12 cards.


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kostacurtas*
> 
> Been there, done that!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had 2 x Sapphire 7950 Vapor-X in crossfire and I went to a single GTX 780Ti.
> 
> I knew that I had to lost money and performance for that change, but I did it and I was very happy in the end.
> 
> Everyone making his choices, but after I used both solutions the single card GPU will be my way to go in the future too. Smoother gaming experience, less power consumption, etc.
> 
> Regarding Mantle and DX12. Yes, both are low level API that can help when you have weak CPU with strong GPU, but DX12 will have more features that will be available only in DX12 cards.


You don't necessarily need a new card for DX12, at least if you are someone who has a recent AMD card.

http://www.eteknix.com/amd-gcn-gpus-directx-12-ready/

Also, It is worth mentioning that DX12 will supposedly be exclusive to Windows 9.


----------



## Mand12

Honestly, it doesn't really matter how this one turns out, I'll be getting it. Current rig is 5 years old, getting replaced completely - I don't really care what it is, as long as it's an improvement over 780ti. The degree of improvement isn't going to affect my decision. Specific performance and price metrics may determine if I go for a third card or not, though.


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> Honestly, it doesn't really matter how this one turns out, I'll be getting it. Current rig is 5 years old, getting replaced completely - I don't really care what it is, as long as it's an improvement over 780ti. The degree of improvement isn't going to affect my decision. Specific performance and price metrics may determine if I go for a third card or not, though.


Exactly this. It's not sounding like the new card is going to be aimed at 780ti owners, but rather at those of us on older cards.


----------



## kostacurtas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> You don't necessarily need a new card for DX12, at least if you are someone who has a recent AMD card.
> 
> http://www.eteknix.com/amd-gcn-gpus-directx-12-ready/
> 
> Also, It is worth mentioning that DX12 will supposedly be exclusive to Windows 9.


Yes, of course its true that nearly all the AMD and Nvidia DX11 cards will have DX12 support, but only partial.

For full DX12 support you will need a new DX12 card.
Quote:


> DirectX 12 will indeed make lower-level abstraction available (but not mandatory-there will be backward-compatibility with DX11) on existing hardware. However, Tamasi explained that DirectX 12 will introduce a set of new features in addition to the lower-level abstraction, and those features will require new hardware. In his words, Microsoft "only teased" at some of those additions this week, and a "whole bunch more" are coming.


And yes, probably Microsoft will launch DX12 as a Windows 9 exclusive... how else they will make us upgrade?


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kostacurtas*
> 
> And yes, probably Microsoft will launch DX12 as a Windows 9 exclusive... how else they will make us upgrade?


By making an OS better than windows 7? As if. .


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> By making an OS better than windows 7? As if. .


Aw, come on, they're due. Just like with Star Trek movies, traditionally every other one sucks.


----------



## TheBlindDeafMute

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> i am nearly getting a PS4 to play me some destiny..meanwhile
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but just cant....have to hold back now.


Still waiting to hear some Destiny news for PC. Kinda silly they didnt release it for PC, but oh well. If anything I'll get it for 360. Not going to buy an xbone for one game unless its Halo.









I wish they would come on and release the true benchmarks, so we can all quit clammering about like a bunch of kids. Release the price, the specs, and details. Waiting until the 18th sucks.

If the 980 is really an upgrade I may consider it, but it seems like it will be a close match for the 780ti. It's the later versions of the cards that have me excited, such as the 980ti or the next Titan. Since Maxwell already looks like a good GPU, it will be interesting to see what cards they decide to make. 980ti 6-8gb anyone? Or perhaps a Titan 2 with 3600 cuda cores and 8 gb vram..... one can hope. Do you need that much vram? No, but it would be nice to have such a powerful card(s) to put the hurt on any future Unreal 4 titles. I'm holding out for 3 way SLI titan 2's.

What is it the rappers say? Its better to have one and not need it than need one and not have it?









/rant


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBlindDeafMute*
> 
> Still waiting to hear some Destiny news for PC. Kinda silly they didnt release it for PC, but oh well
> /rant


The thing is.. I had read in more than one place when bungie was originally splitting off from microsoft that the core reason was that they wanted to be able to develop for more platforms, and PC was mentioned in specific. Their first solo game since the split is announced, Destiny, and guess what? They said it was too much work to put it on PC at release, they had already put too much work into all the other platforms.

Anyway.. Back on topic.. has anyone seen any TDP numbers on the 900 series from reliable sources?


----------



## Neo Zuko

I returned it. Now I'll get a 980. Until then my Haswell integrated graphics and PS4 has me covered. Time to fire up Destiny... 

Here is hoping MSI does a Lightning version.


----------



## Skwidbol

Would anyone know the reference card length of a GTX970 yet?

i hope they stop making very long/big cards. If they keep on making a long/big card, they should just create a mini ITx size graphics card and sandwich the MOBOs in parallel. Else they can switch places NUC size board for the cpu and big MOBO of the graphics.


----------



## Smanci

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skwidbol*
> 
> Would anyone know the reference card length of a GTX970 yet?
> 
> i hope they stop making very long/big cards. If they keep on making a long/big card, they should just create a mini ITx size graphics card and sandwich the MOBOs in parallel. Else they can switch places NUC size board for the cpu and big MOBO of the graphics.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TPU Database*
> 9.5 inches
> 241 mm


I'd say if this thing really consumes <=150W, we will see short cards.


----------



## kostacurtas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> Anyway.. Back on topic.. has anyone seen any TDP numbers on the 900 series from reliable sources?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skwidbol*
> 
> Would anyone know the reference card length of a GTX970 yet?


Of course nothing is official yet but you can see the full specs of GTX 980 and 970 in the GPU database of techPowerUp.

Also Skwidbol we have already seen a leaked photo from the retail Zotac GTX 970 and you can see that is a small card. I believe that is very possible to have the GTX 970 in mITX form in the future.


----------



## Remij

So how long after these things are released do we expect them to be sold out online? lol


----------



## Menta

Only 4 days to go, I should not be hyped but sadly I am.


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> Only 4 days to go, I should not be hyped but sadly I am.


Assuming Game24 really is the reveal date.


----------



## melodystyle2003

As Gamescom was before.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> Assuming Game24 really is the reveal date.


The 19th is when NDA lifts for Maxwell.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> The 19th is when NDA lifts for Maxwell.


Yep, definitely happening at this point, even NVidia refers to the game24 page as the "Maxwell teaser homepage"







.


----------



## Menta

it looks like AMD is going to lower prices even more....starting to have some hope on better launch prices, if you take in to consideration the game bundles this also could be a good thing, better bundles and better prices all around


----------



## MeanBruce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> The 19th is when NDA lifts for Maxwell.


Looks like September 18th 9pm EDT 6pm PDT, right after dinner.









http://game24.nvidia.com/info


----------



## TheBlindDeafMute

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> Only 4 days to go, I should not be hyped but sadly I am.


I'm extremely excited for this. Don't feel bad lol. Can't wait to watch the highlights and see the new cards, even if I'm not planning on buying any.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> Assuming Game24 really is the reveal date.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Yep, definitely happening at this point, even NVidia refers to the game24 page as the "Maxwell teaser homepage"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


----------



## Imitationcrabme

Wow, I have a GTX570 and I'm debating whether a 980/970 is a worthwhile upgrade. I usually only upgrade if the new component has double or better performance. This usually works out to every 3-4 years. If I had a 780ti I wouldn't dream of upgrading for another couple years.

At this point it all depends on the pricing. The 570 still hums along with pretty good settings at 1080p, but occasionally dips below 60fps. If the 980 can maintain 60+ fps at 1440p, for $499 or less, i'll probably bite. The people predicting 499 for a nVidia flagship are dreaming though. With inflation factored in, that would be like the 580 launching at $450.

I hope nvidia surprises us though, and tries to retake some mid-range market back from AMD.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imitationcrabme*
> 
> Wow, I have a GTX570 and I'm debating whether a 980/970 is a worthwhile upgrade. I usually only upgrade if the new component has double or better performance..


Then you could have upgraded a long time ago because a regular GTX 780 will do double or better than what you currently have. I had a GTX 580, then a GTX 680 and now a GTX 780 and I can assure you that the 780 is twice that of a 580 which is a little stronger than a 570.


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Imitationcrabme*
> 
> Wow, I have a GTX570 and I'm debating whether a 980/970 is a worthwhile upgrade. I usually only upgrade if the new component has double or better performance..
> 
> 
> 
> Then you could have upgraded a long time ago because a regular GTX 780 will do that just fine. I had a GTX 580, then a GTX 680 and now a GTX 780 and I can assure you that the 780 is twice that of a 580 which is a little stronger than a 570.
Click to expand...

i was about to say, had 580 before and 760 beats it on most, if not all, games i have. Let alone a 780 or 780 Ti! I bet either of them easily doubles the 570 perf.

But since you've hold out this long already, just wait for the new release. It's coming out soon and you well deserve it


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acupalypse*
> 
> But since you've hold out this long already, just wait for the new release. It's coming out soon and you well deserve it


Yeah I agree, he may as well wait now.


----------



## Menta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBlindDeafMute*
> 
> I'm extremely excited for this. Don't feel bad lol. Can't wait to watch the highlights and see the new cards, even if I'm not planning on buying any.


will follow the stream at all times







either from my smartphone or desktop







thats really how excited i am


----------



## Gorea

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imitationcrabme*
> 
> Wow, I have a GTX570 and I'm debating whether a 980/970 is a worthwhile upgrade. I usually only upgrade if the new component has double or better performance. This usually works out to every 3-4 years. If I had a 780ti I wouldn't dream of upgrading for another couple years.
> 
> At this point it all depends on the pricing. The 570 still hums along with pretty good settings at 1080p, but occasionally dips below 60fps. If the 980 can maintain 60+ fps at 1440p, for $499 or less, i'll probably bite. The people predicting 499 for a nVidia flagship are dreaming though. With inflation factored in, that would be like the 580 launching at $450.
> 
> I hope nvidia surprises us though, and tries to retake some mid-range market back from AMD.


GTX 980 will probably be *triple* the performance of a 570.


----------



## Gorea

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> Only 4 days to go, I should not be hyped but sadly I am.


I'm hyped not for the announcement, but for the trolls that will flood these forums after the announcements.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorea*
> 
> I'm hyped not for the announcement, but for the trolls that will flood these forums after the announcements.


Bwahahahahahaha so true, they're already in a frenzy, imagine if maxwell turns out half as well as we think it will!


----------



## flopticalcube

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imitationcrabme*
> 
> Wow, I have a GTX570 and I'm debating whether a 980/970 is a worthwhile upgrade. I usually only upgrade if the new component has double or better performance. This usually works out to every 3-4 years. If I had a 780ti I wouldn't dream of upgrading for another couple years.
> 
> At this point it all depends on the pricing. The 570 still hums along with pretty good settings at 1080p, but occasionally dips below 60fps. If the 980 can maintain 60+ fps at 1440p, for $499 or less, i'll probably bite. The people predicting 499 for a nVidia flagship are dreaming though. With inflation factored in, that would be like the 580 launching at $450.
> 
> I hope nvidia surprises us though, and tries to retake some mid-range market back from AMD.


My sons both have 560ti's and a 970 would be an extremely positive upgrade... like nearly triple. Just needed to wait for the card with the right size (short) and right TDP (less than 170W) to come along at a decent (< $400?) price point. The 970 would be an excellent replacement for your 570, the 980 would be a killer.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gorea*
> 
> I'm hyped not for the announcement, but for the trolls that will flood these forums after the announcements.


I can hear the complaining already


----------



## CalinTM

Some days ago people talked about performance, that will be minor, now they talk only about the price of 980







)))

Lol....

Nvidia has increased the price of their cards by each architecture. So this GM204, replacement of GK104, i can really tell with be 680 price launch date + some more $.


----------



## Roelv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> Nvidia has increased the price of their cards by each architecture. So this GM204, replacement of GK104, i can really tell with be 680 price launch date + some more $.


Their logic is faster cards needs to be more expensive so if we get faster cards each generation, we get more expensive cards









I don't really know what the hype is about, so far the only good thing seems to be the power efficiency which won't show its full glory until big Maxwell. Though I still have my hopes to finally see some cards with multiple Displayport outputs.


----------



## CalinTM

At least from my 680 will be a massive upgrade.









And if i can bring the card at 1400mhz will be just an extra.

If the next card is faster than the last card, and its cheaper by selling a mainsteram chip gm204, means evolution.

If will be cheaper than GK110 (780 Ti) will have only one reason: that GM204 is mainstream chip, and is tagged for mainstream price, for the mainstream wallets and public to access. High-end price tag is a different thing.

Also if 980 will be some little more expensive than 680 launch date, means that the big maxwell GM200, will be more expensive than 780 Ti's price tag.

I bet it will be about some dollars more expensive than 680 launch day, because it will have an extra 2gb vram vs. gtx680. And its on the same 28nm, that node is not expensive anymore, since is not exclusive.


----------



## Boomstick727

http://postimg.org/image/fpf5du44z/

http://postimg.org/image/gp5g9jjar/

http://postimg.org/image/5557v8zn7/

http://postimg.org/image/mh5kgot4j/

http://postimg.org/image/4ok08tbw3/


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Those pics...


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boomstick727*
> 
> http://postimg.org/image/fpf5du44z/
> 
> http://postimg.org/image/gp5g9jjar/
> 
> http://postimg.org/image/5557v8zn7/
> 
> http://postimg.org/image/mh5kgot4j/
> 
> http://postimg.org/image/4ok08tbw3/











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> Those pics...


I think they're from here.
http://videocardz.com/52321/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-pictured


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Much better. Many thanks


----------



## supergamer

five display outputs: DVI, HDMI, and 3 DisplayPorts.


----------



## szeged

looks like a weak vrm this time again for reference cards.


----------



## Cr4zy

5 display outputs?
Quote:


> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 has five display outputs: DVI, HDMI, and three DisplayPorts. We heard that GTX 980 and 970 may feature HDMI 2.0 support, but we were unable to confirm it.


This I like.


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Better?

Well its released this week! No more rumors..just facts. Can't wait for TechPowerUp's review of the 980 and 970...its going to be amazing power performance!


----------



## TopicClocker

Source: http://videocardz.com/52321/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-pictured


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> looks like a weak vrm this time again for reference cards.


Yes that i was about to tell right now...

Well 680 had the same, and look at the 680 lightning from msi







:thumb:


----------



## szeged

yeah i wont be buying a 980 on launch day. i will wait for the classified/lightning cards to arrive. that vrm looks awful and its probably clockblocked by greenlight like usual.


----------



## Slomo4shO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cakewalk_S*
> 
> 
> 
> Better?


Hmm 2x 6 pin only so max TDP = 225W... Should definitely be an improvement on power consumption.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Give the card an 8pin and people would think it's a V8 instead of a V6!









Nice back plate!


----------



## Marc79

They're going with the same/similar reference cooler as 700 series, which I liked ever since it came out, not bad.


----------



## Stay Puft

I'm changing my tune. 980 will be 599.99


----------



## gildadan

Think I will need to pick one or 2 of these up. Worthy upgrade in every department from my 670's.


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I'm changing my tune. 980 will be 599.99


which is unfortunate because the classified will be $650 =\


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> yeah i wont be buying a 980 on launch day. i will wait for the classified/lightning cards to arrive. that vrm looks awful and its probably clockblocked by greenlight like usual.


Yeah me too, i bought a 680 back in 2012, when launched, got an order as soon as a 680 was available on my local IT store, those with the reference pcb design and an aftermarket cooler stacked on it, like a joke. awful. The card had coil noise, due to low vrm's, because she didn't had enough vrms to share the power uniform

And im aware that the custom models will be a little expensive, but if the price tag of stock 980 will be lower, the better for custom cards.


----------



## SoloCamo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I'm changing my tune. 980 will be 599.99


$650 on launch ... $600 within a month. Place your bets!


----------



## i7monkey

this crap better be cheap


----------



## szeged

cheap compared to a new bugatti, cheap for nvidia? who knows


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> $650 on launch ... $600 within a month. Place your bets!


Yeah ? And then back to 650 for custom pcb ones







)) hihihh

My bet is that the price tag will be 550 to 570$

TAKE THAT !!!!


----------



## szeged

inc $999 price tag for ultra lols and trolling from nvidia.


----------



## brandon6199

The only thing I don't like about the 6-pin PCI-e power connectors is that most current PSU's today have the 6+2 pin connector... I have OCD and that extra 2 pin connector that you have to bend out of the way really bothers me


----------



## frag06

At least it looks like they are including a ba
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brandon6199*
> 
> The only thing I don't like about the 6-pin PCI-e power connectors is that most current PSU's today have the 6+2 pin connector... I have OCD and that extra 2 pin connector that you have to bend out of the way really bothers me


I know the feeling... seriously.

I hope custom cards are available soon after launch.


----------



## mcg75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> $650 on launch ... $600 within a month. Place your bets!


I'm thinking $649 as well which was the 780 release price. 780 had no new direct competition and neither does this one.

I'm only interested in 4K performance numbers though.


----------



## Roaches

Looks like the mosfets got nerfed compared to that of the Titan PCB. Seeing cheap high and low side mosfets on a high end card makes me cringe. At least they're giving it a backplate for the first time lol.


----------



## Asus11

699 for classified 650 for aftermarket 619 for reference


----------



## szeged

i dont care about game numbers, i just want to see how well this thing overclocks, if it overclocks like a rotten dog turd on the reference pcb ill definitely wait for the kingpin edition.


----------



## Menta

i thought the vrm was a no issue with maxwell, now its bad again lol


----------



## VeerK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> i dont care about game numbers, i just want to see how well this thing overclocks, if it overclocks like a rotten dog turd on the reference pcb ill definitely wait for the kingpin edition.


you can overclock fresh dog turd?









I always thought this would launch for $650 like the 780, and so the less than a year old 780ti won't be obsolete and can take a price cut, will find out for sure in a few days. I'm curious how high the 980 will OC and how well it will translate to increased FPS. I'm most curious about 4k performance.


----------



## Slomo4shO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> i thought the vrm was a no issue with maxwell, now its bad again lol


Well, since the price debate has been beaten to a pulp, people need something else to complain about









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VeerK*
> 
> I always thought this would launch for $650 like the 780, and so the less than a year old 780ti won't be obsolete and can take a price cut, will find out for sure in a few days..


I am willing to wager that the 780 Ti will be discontinued shortly after the launch of the 980s. Retailers will empty their inventories through sales pricing and Nvidia would have no need to dramatically cut prices.


----------



## CalinTM

No, no no, i cant take it anymore. Im gonna use my power, and i will attack nvidias QH with my telepathic power. I will hive u the numbers in a sec, stay tuned, need to go into my basement, cuz thats where it works all the time.


----------



## Roaches

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> i thought the vrm was a no issue with maxwell, now its bad again lol


Its likely safe enough for them since knowing how well power efficient Maxwell is...Seeing its a dual 6 pin power design it may never draw a huge amount of current to set the VRMs on fire. Besides, Nvidia doesn't like people overclocking their cards, they leave it to the OEMs to make factory OC models and unlocked beefy cards for those that want the best out of the chip like the K|ngP|n/Lightning/SOC.

They'll probably go back to using integrated high and low side driver mosfets on their next big chip design which is to replace GK-110.

Also the 980 looks like a 4+1 phase design. a huge step back from the true 6 Phase design from the Titan PCB


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBlindDeafMute*
> 
> I'm extremely excited for this. Don't feel bad lol. Can't wait to watch the highlights and see the new cards, even if I'm not planning on buying any.


where can I watch?


----------



## zealord

I like the backplate, but no matter how fancy the backplate or cooler 650$ is way too much for that card


----------



## flopticalcube

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roaches*
> 
> Its likely safe enough for them since knowing how well power efficient Maxwell is...Seeing its a dual 6 pin power design it may never draw a huge amount of current to set the VRMs on fire. Besides, Nvidia doesn't like people overclocking their cards, they leave it to the OEMs to make factory OC models and unlocked beefy cards for those that want the best out of the chip like the K|ngP|n/Lightning/SOC.
> 
> They'll probably go back to using integrated high and low side driver mosfets on their next big chip design which is to replace GK-110.
> 
> Also the 980 looks like a 4+1 phase design. a huge step back from the true 6 Phase design from the Titan PCB


Videocardz claims the power delivery design is greatly improved. I think its something that we will have to wait and see.


----------



## Menta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> where can I watch?


NV will be streaming all day i suppose, maybe twitch


----------



## Menta

550$ non reference will be the most i will shell out for these cards, in my honest opinion any thing above that is pushing it.... maybe if they were really really top performers 210 all all that maybe 650 but that is the limit no matter how good they are.


----------



## NuclearPeace

If it wont beat the 780 Ti then it wont be $650.

Honestly $650 is the max as it lines up with the GTX 780 release price. I think its going to be $550 for the 980 and $430 for the 970.

Anyway as long as the 960 is $250 or less then idrc about anything else.


----------



## Stay Puft

I wonder if MSI will even be allowed to make a 980 Lightning or will it be the same bs of making a few and not selling them publicly like the 780 Ti Lightning


----------



## Master__Shake

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I wonder if MSI will even be allowed to make a 980 Lightning or will it be the same bs of making a few and not selling them publicly like the 780 Ti Lightning


if nvidia green light is still a thing then no.


----------



## Asus11

if these are 5-10% over a stock 780 think ill skip this generation and maybe pick up a third 780


----------



## Roaches

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flopticalcube*
> 
> Videocardz claims the power delivery design is greatly improved. I think its something that we will have to wait and see.


I highly doubt VC know what they're talking about when it comes to power delivery design. Given its a 4+1 phase, its likely the individual high and low side mosfets are of high current capacity which should be suffice for a reference design. A 40A rated integrated driver mosfet like NexFets and IR355x would've made me say "its alright" if it was on the 980 PCB on regards to OC potential. Chances are this card will likely be voltage locked.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *flopticalcube*
> 
> Videocardz claims the power delivery design is greatly improved. I think its something that we will have to wait and see.


Also, 180w tdp max, you don't need a million-phase system to power that.


----------



## JONSTARKS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *JONSTARKS*
> 
> stock 980 seems to be matching my 780ti @ 1150mhz (which is what it runs at stock)...
> 
> will be skipping this generation.
> 
> I hope by that time will have GPUs that can push 4k 60fps w/ no issues.
> 
> 
> 
> So a reference 980 @ 1178mhz matches your high/moderately-high air OC 24/7 stability setup, and despite having tons more in the tank (I'd be shocked if we don't see 1400-1450+mhz oc's relatively commonly) and costing hundred*s* less ($730 for an AIB like yours vs. possibly as low as $500 on the 980), coming with 1gb more of VRAM, running cooler and quieter, you dismiss it as useless? Sounds legit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sold my 780 a few ago and am hopping on whatever is $1k/less in SLI... price-perf, thermals, noise, and power draw all look to be jumping nicely, plus more vram is never a bad thing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> -Written from my UP2414Q 60hz IPS @ 4k res.
Click to expand...

I feel like you're guessing on price performance there, we'll see how much a +1200mhz 980 GPU will perform and cost.

I got my 780ti for $730 when it came out, but came with 3 games bundled ($150), overall it's like I paid $580 for it.

After seeing these benches for the 980, I have no itch to flip my ti on ebay, the 980 did not impress (me).


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I'm changing my tune. 980 will be 599.99
> 
> 
> 
> which is unfortunate because the classified will be $650 =\
Click to expand...

guys please don't give nvidia a hint!


----------



## friend'scatdied

Backplate and Titan-esque cooler is a bad omen IMHO. Even now that's not a trivial expense, and their last $499 card (GTX 680) had a chintzy plastic shroud.


----------



## flopticalcube

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Also, 180w tdp max, you don't need a million-phase system to power that.


We can see also from the pictures that the circuit has changed from the 780ti with extra components. Some detailed photos would be helpful if we could get some part numbers.


----------



## flopticalcube

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acupalypse*
> 
> guys please don't give nvidia a hint!


Don't worry. If it is announced in a few days the price will have been set a long time ago.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> Some days ago people talked about performance, that will be minor, now they talk only about the price of 980
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )))
> 
> Lol....
> 
> Nvidia has increased the price of their cards by each architecture. So this GM204, replacement of GK104, i can really tell with be 680 price launch date + some more $.


The 580 launched at the same or a little bit more than the 680.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> Yeah me too, i bought a 680 back in 2012, when launched, got an order as soon as a 680 was available on my local IT store, those with the reference pcb design and an aftermarket cooler stacked on it, like a joke. awful. The card had coil noise, due to low vrm's, because she didn't had enough vrms to share the power uniform
> 
> And im aware that the custom models will be a little expensive, but if the price tag of stock 980 will be lower, the better for custom cards.


I had a launch GTX 680 and stuck a accelero cooler on it almost immediately, no coil whine whatsoever and the card would do 1330mhz on the core. Actually coil whine on those cards were pretty rare while the 7970 suffered from it quiet a bit.


----------



## Slomo4shO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> The 580 launched at the same or a little bit more than the 680.


The 580 and the 680 both launched at $500, the difference was that the 580 was the large GF110 whereas the 680 was the midlevel GK104. The true successor to the GF 110 was the GTX 780 Ti which was the fully featured GK110. The 780 Ti, however, launched at $700.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JONSTARKS*
> 
> After seeing these benches for the 980, I have no itch to flip my ti on ebay, the 980 did not impress (me).


LMAO... its comments such as these which keeps me laughing. 780TI owner see's one "possible fake" 3dmark test and writes the card off before the nda is released and we see actual gaming benchmarks. I mean the card isnt even out yet and we have no official reviews on it yet but somehow the unreleased 980 did not impress you.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slomo4shO*
> 
> The 580 and the 680 both launched at $500, the difference was that the 580 was the large GF110 whereas the 680 was the midlevel GK104. The true successor to the GF 110 was the GTX 780 Ti which was the fully featured GK110. The 780 Ti, however, launched at $700.


I agree with that but he said "with every new architecture change" and regardless the 680 was nvidias high end when it was released even though it was truly a mid range chip.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Backplate and Titan-esque cooler is a bad omen IMHO. Even now that's not a trivial expense, and their last $499 card (GTX 680) had a chintzy plastic shroud.


GTX 770 was a $399 card and had the titan-style cooler.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> GTX 770 was a $399 card and had the titan-style cooler.


Praying the 970 follows in that price


----------



## Slomo4shO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> I agree with that but he said "with every new architecture change" and regardless the 680 was nvidias high end when it was released even though it was truly a mid range chip.


Considering that you don't know the pricing of the upcoming mid range or high end chips, not sure how you are disputing claim that Nvidia is raising prices with new architecture.

Even the 980 is going to be at the top of the line for at least 6 months for Nvidia, doesn't make the mid range chip high end for Maxwell architecture.

The 580 was the best that Fermi offered ($500).
The 780 Ti was the best that Kepler offered ($700).
The 980 certainly isn't the best of Maxwell (?)...


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I'm changing my tune. 980 will be 599.99


Unfortunately you probably are right. I was saying $499 as well but if they are going to give out the Titan cooler and the Titan Z backplate then they aren't going to price this thing reasonably...


----------



## krel

Wish they'd sell it w/o any cooler at all.


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Unfortunately you probably are right. I was saying $499 as well but if they are going to give out the Titan cooler and the Titan Z backplate then they aren't going to price this thing reasonably...


Still have hope for the 970 tho eric @ 399


----------



## tkenietz

Not saying I think that this is the case, but how mad would you all be if this was like last time and this card is Titan 2.0 at $1,000 lol


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Still have hope for the 970 tho eric @ 399


True, especially if they do a shorty PCB like the 670...


----------



## 2010rig

Even the $399 770 came with that cooler.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Yeah, but this release will be more like the 6xx release than the 7xx. I bet we'll see shorty reference PCB 970's without the Titan cooler but I've been wrong before...


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Even the $399 770 came with that cooler.


The original 690 cooler was magnesium, and was a lot more expensive. That perception hasn't gone away due to the design similarity, despite the cheaper metal used.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> The original 690 cooler was magnesium, and was a lot more expensive. That perception hasn't gone away due to the design similarity, despite the cheaper metal used.


There you go, the cooler isn't going to make or break the card. $499 possibility still exists.


----------



## Clocknut

I like the titan cooler, but I dont like the reference component inside it. Those after market GPU makers is going to put better chokes, capacitors etc on their own GPU.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> There you go, the cooler isn't going to make or break the card. $499 possibility still exists.


Hopefully you are right! I too enjoy the Titan cooler but the 690 is still the best reference cooler design I've ever seen...


----------



## FlyingSolo

Well this card is no way a $499 card now. Since it uses the Titan cooler as well as the Titan Z backplate. My guess its around $600 to $650. If its around $500 i'll buy one. Was thinking of selling my gtx 780 and buying two 290x


----------



## adamski07

At PCHub facebook page who leaked that Zotac 970 photo, they also said that the price of 980 and and 970 is ranging from 31-34k php for GTX 980 and 19-22k php for GTX 970 and converted to USD it is $700 and $430, respectively. But them usually having higher price compare to US, I'd guess $600-$650 for the release price of a reference GTX 980.


----------



## Slomo4shO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adamski07*
> 
> At PCHub facebook page who leaked that Zotac 970 photo, they also said that the price of 980 and and 970 is ranging from 31-34k php for GTX 980 and 19-22k php for GTX 970 and converted to USD it is $700 and $430, respectively. But them usually having higher price compare to US, I'd guess $600-$650 for the release price of a reference GTX 980.


$600-650 for a mid-range card... the sad part is people will actually buy the card...


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> GTX 770 was a $399 card and had the titan-style cooler.


Edited (my own post) for inaccuracy.

Most AIBs went with non-reference 770s out of the gate.

The underlying card for the 770 is just the same aged GK104 by that point, so the cost might be offset there.

Still wouldn't explain why they'd have a backplate on a card that couldn't possibly need it -- that only adds to the cost of a product that will inevitably be _premium_.


----------



## Stay Puft

I don't even want a Titan cooler 970. 970 Hawk which I'll keep dreaming about so 970 Gaming it is


----------



## Slomo4shO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I don't even want a Titan cooler 970. 970 Hawk which I'll keep dreaming about so 970 Gaming it is


970 Gaming ITX imo...


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slomo4shO*
> 
> $600-650 for a mid-range card... the sad part is people will actually buy the card...


hey, a mid range card with 180W TDP, and 10%+ faster than 780Ti... It isn't amazing, but the new information is shaping up to look allot better than those "100% totally legit, definitely exactly what the user is going to get" 3Dmark benchmarks that were more likely engineering samples.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Edited (my own post) for inaccuracy.
> 
> Most AIBs went with non-reference 770s out of the gate.
> 
> The underlying card for the 770 is just the same aged GK104 by that point, so the cost might be offset there.
> 
> Still wouldn't explain why they'd have a backplate on a card that couldn't possibly need it -- that only adds to the cost of a product that will inevitably be _premium_.


cuz it looks legit, brah!

Either way... These new benchmarks & info leaks make me a bit more happy about the future of Maxwell. I REALLY hope the refresh is 512b, with 20NM super chips.


----------



## Slomo4shO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> hey, a mid range card with 180W TDP, and 10%+ faster than 780Ti... It isn't amazing, but the new information is shaping up to look allot better than those "100% totally legit, definitely exactly what the user is going to get" 3Dmark benchmarks that were more likely engineering samples.


Yea, a 20-30% price premium over the launch price of the mid range card that was peddled as top tier last time by Nvidia (680). This reeks of price fixing... its not like the slap on the wrist that our judicial system executed 7 years ago was any real hindrance to such practices. The profits far exceed the minor penalties and no executive will ever face jail time for such illegal practices...

WTB real completion like what exists in the mobile sector...


----------



## omarh2o

Already seeing major price drops on the 780ti Price DROP


----------



## Cyro999

lol dem fakes


----------



## Slomo4shO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omarh2o*
> 
> Already seeing major price drops on the 780ti Price DROP











Quote:


> *GTX780 TI 4 TIMES BETTER THAN GTX780!*


----------



## Marc79

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omarh2o*
> 
> Already seeing major price drops on the 780ti Price DROP




lol


----------



## Ftruck

Phew, just finished reading through 112 pages. My two GTX670 DCU II Tops both up and died on me in the last month so I've been limping along waiting on this release. I'm hoping to grab three 980s. I've seen a few people talking about 780ti price drops in their country. It's still rocking $840-$950 here in Australia with the Titan at $1300-$1400. I'm expecting to get rammed pretty hard on prices because Australia.


----------



## VeerK

At least you get that return policy thingy, but yeah you're paying out of your ass anyway, might as well jump on the 980. I personally am amped for the Nvidia announcement, I just love new tech getting released.


----------



## JustSomebody

I been lurking for a while now, to the people suggesting 500+ bucks and not much better then ti.....
Just no.....

Screw the NDA, everybody gonna found this out shortly anyway.
980 ref model without any doubt beats 780 TI in real-world game tests. Just wait for professional reviews on the 19th. Ever game is diff and depends! Don't you dare let a leaked test score mislead you.

As for the 256 bit bus worries of it somehow gonna limit (game) performance.............

Double no...

These maxwell chips have major architecture advantages over kepler in real world rendering for texture fillrate, and memory bandwidth efficiency.

Now as for the prices, reference 970 is 350 bucks. And 980 reference is 450 bucks!
Yes that is not a typo, a 450$ reference card beats the much higher costing GK110 keplers!


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustSomebody*
> 
> I been lurking for a while now, to the people suggesting 500+ bucks and not much better then ti.....
> Just no.....
> 
> Screw the NDA, everybody gonna found this out shortly anyway.
> 980 ref model without any doubt beats 780 TI in real-world game tests. Just wait for professional reviews on the 19th. Ever game is diff and depends! Don't you dare let a leaked test score mislead you.
> 
> As for the 256 bit bus worries of it somehow gonna limit (game) performance.............
> 
> Double no...
> 
> These maxwell chips have major architecture advantages over kepler in real world rendering for texture fillrate, and memory bandwidth efficiency.
> 
> Now as for the prices, reference 970 is 350 bucks. And 980 reference is 450 bucks!
> Yes that is not a typo, a 450$ reference card beats the much higher costing GK110 keplers!


If true, I love you. It makes sense to me honestly given how cheap these look to manufacture (smaller die, existing PCB design, mature node, Maxwell architecture and wanting to make a big splash) among other factors (amd dropping prices suddenly a large amount, NVidia's old cards coming down so much so suddenly, 16nm/20nm due next year, nvidia making a huge deal of game24 countdown, etc.). The performance and architecture changes make sense to me too. For s&g I decided to try 4k in ESO on my baby 750 ti and it somehow magically runs at a surprisingly good framerate compared to 1080p subsampled. I believe the architectural advantages especially will do the trick.


----------



## ladcrooks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> 200 less and 15 to 20 percent faster than ref 780 ti on the same node, all while taking less power? /sign me up.


wishful thinking?


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ladcrooks*
> 
> wishful thinking?


Nope. I don't think so,







actually.

But I'll gladly come back and admit I misguessed in a few days if so, if you'll do the same







.

So far so good though...
http://www.overclock.net/t/1511703/vc-gtx-980-benches/920_40#post_22838800


----------



## Menta

Ámen to 450$


----------



## ladcrooks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Nope. I don't think so,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> actually.
> 
> But I'll gladly come back and admit I misguessed in a few days if so, if you'll do the same
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> So far so good though...
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1511703/vc-gtx-980-benches/920_40#post_22838800


No! No! No! I want to be the one that says I'm wrong ! Cos that will be good for all of us


----------



## Olivon

I was wrong myself, I believed 2560SPs was the good spot :/


----------



## Wihglah

I see a few specific 780ti models now being out of stock, so the retailers are obviously purging.

The only reason to do that is if buying a 780ti after 980 drops is not sensible.

Given the slight advantage of the leaked benches, it seems reasonable that 780ti prices will continue to fall to a price point slightly below the launch price of the 980.

Nvidia will be very keen to maintain their margin on the cards, so given the assumed drop in manufacturing cost of a smaller core and similar PCB, it all starts to add up.

I just don't want to be ripped off. Come on NV, make us NVidiots happy!!


----------



## y2kcamaross

Well I sold my 2 gtx 780s, so I am GPUless right now...so I will be be buying 2 of these now regardless of price


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wihglah*
> 
> I see a few specific 780ti models now being out of stock, so the retailers are obviously purging.
> 
> The only reason to do that is if buying a 780ti after 980 drops is not sensible.
> 
> Given the slight advantage of the leaked benches, it seems reasonable that 780ti prices will continue to fall to a price point slightly below the launch price of the 980.
> 
> Nvidia will be very keen to maintain their margin on the cards, so given the assumed drop in manufacturing cost of a smaller core and similar PCB, it all starts to add up.
> 
> I just don't want to be ripped off. Come on NV, make us NVidiots happy!!


Yea, amazon and newegg are both going out of stock on some of them...







. Good stuff.


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Edited (my own post) for inaccuracy.
> 
> Most AIBs went with non-reference 770s out of the gate.
> 
> The underlying card for the 770 is just the same aged GK104 by that point, so the cost might be offset there.
> 
> Still wouldn't explain why they'd have a backplate on a card that couldn't possibly need it -- that only adds to the cost of a product that will inevitably be premium.


Unless the 890 OC's like a beast, and thermal imaging shows it needs the dissipation on the back side of the board when running above 1300-1400 as an example.


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> Well I sold my 2 gtx 780s, so I am GPUless right now...so I will be be buying 2 of these now regardless of price


bad move










the 2 780s you just sold will probably only buy 1 new card lol


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> bad move
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the 2 780s you just sold will probably only buy 1 new card lol


Doubtful. I'd be surprised if he couldn't come close to 2x 970's which will be better anyway.


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Doubtful. I'd be surprised if he couldn't come close to 2x 970's which will be better anyway.


I wonder if anyone is concerned about the 256bit memory bus? & its 4gb? sounds like a gtx 680


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> I wonder if anyone is concerned about the 256bit memory bus? & its 4gb? sounds like a gtx 680


I wonder if anyone is reading the thread? But no, I'm not







.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slomo4shO*
> 
> $600-650 for a mid-range card... the sad part is people will actually buy the card...


If it is the fastest card available from nvidia upon its release then it isnt mid end regardless if a bigger faster maxwell comes out later or not.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> If it is the fastest card available from nvidia upon its release then it isnt mid end regardless if a bigger faster maxwell comes out later or not.


This.... bus width & vram capacity, the new ghz myth.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustSomebody*
> 
> I been lurking for a while now, to the people suggesting 500+ bucks and not much better then ti.....
> Just no.....
> 
> Screw the NDA, everybody gonna found this out shortly anyway.
> 980 ref model without any doubt beats 780 TI in real-world game tests. Just wait for professional reviews on the 19th. Ever game is diff and depends! Don't you dare let a leaked test score mislead you.
> 
> As for the 256 bit bus worries of it somehow gonna limit (game) performance.............
> 
> Double no...
> 
> These maxwell chips have major architecture advantages over kepler in real world rendering for texture fillrate, and memory bandwidth efficiency.
> 
> Now as for the prices, reference 970 is 350 bucks. And 980 reference is 450 bucks!
> Yes that is not a typo, a 450$ reference card beats the much higher costing GK110 keplers!


Hmmm, who are you and can you be trusted? I have seen people pull this stuff before claiming to be in the "know" and in the end were simply messing with peoples hopes.







I hope you are for real though, trust me I do!


----------



## provost

Lol...why would somebody (nobody







) be so generous to share this info?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> Lol...why would somebody (nobody
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) be so generous to share this info?


He's not a nobody, he's just somebody.


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> He's not a nobody, he's just somebody.


So, you vouching for this somebody?


----------



## kostacurtas

Source


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> So, you vouching for this somebody?


I said no such thing. Lol


----------



## supergamer




----------



## Princess Garnet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustSomebody*
> 
> Now as for the prices, reference 970 is 350 bucks. And 980 reference is 450 bucks!
> Yes that is not a typo, a 450$ reference card beats the much higher costing GK110 keplers!


I would be okay with prices like that. I was hoping for the GeForce GTX 970 to fall around $379.99 to $399.99 at most, and the GeForce GTX 980 to be no more than $499.99.

Either way, I can't imagine them being much more expensive than that, and the better models will be more expensive, of course, but I think AMD's price/performance is considered much better right now (someone correct me if I'm wrong), and this is a mid-range chip (I'm talking about the chip, not performance), and 28nm is matured, so even with performance like is rumored, I wasn't expecting $600 or $650 from a GeForce GTX 980. The price drops on existing cards are a bit telling, too. Also, wouldn't this generation sort of have to "reset the pricing" a bit if they hope to charge more for the bigger Maxwell chips later?

The other thread rumored the GeForce GTX 960 to be a sub $300 card, which is usually the target price point for the GeForce GTX x60 class cards, right? If the GeForce GTX 970 was like $450, and the GeForce GTX 980 $600 or $650, wouldn't that leave too big of gaps?

Somewhere between your prices and the rumored $400 and $500 price points make the most sense to me so far.


----------



## skupples

Giggty. Give me 3600 20NM cores & 512 bit. Until then I'll be over here. Much rather spend $450 on a VKB joystick with all metal gimbal... Oh look they just emailed me with stock after 6 months of waiting. Sorry NV u no get my money.


----------



## Alatar

GM200 is either 2560, 3200, 3840, etc. cores.


----------



## rdr09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Giggty. Give me 3600 20NM cores & 512 bit. Until then I'll be over here. Much rather spend $450 on a VKB joystick with all metal gimbal... Oh look they just emailed me with stock after 6 months of waiting. Sorry NV u no get my money.


i think $450 would be nice for the 980. a much slower 770 was that when it came out.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdr09*
> 
> i think $450 would be nice for the 980. a much slower 770 was that when it came out.


Sounds like a great price for a hand crafted Russian made joystick with all metal interiors. Makes my warthog look like a plastic kiddie toy, which is why it will become my strafing stick while I use the VKB mamba in my main hand with MFG pedals for roll, and vertical strafe.

Sorry Nvidia blew my whole 2014-2016 GPU budget on space sim peripherals. Looks like I'll be riding Titans for another 18 months... Thank god for this colt mod. 1300 mhz titans STILL kick ass.


----------



## Menta

Pretty much sure we will see 970 non reference at the start and 980 non by the end of the month if NV releases on the 19th . Seems like the retailers have their hands on the cards all ready


----------



## Roelv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *supergamer*


Now that's what I have been waiting for. Really a smart move to put 3 DP on there while keeping one DVI and HDMI.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> Pretty much sure we will see 970 non reference at the start and 980 non by the end of the month if NV releases on the 19th . Seems like the retailers have their hands on the cards all ready


Sounds like they are chomping at the bit.

Good to see NV is moving away from one output from each card for Surround... I hope this means g-sync surround is around the corner. ASUS claims it works but I haven't seen any proof of such from NV.


----------



## CalinTM

Hope that dvi is dual link... if not 144hz monitors are screwed up


----------



## zealord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> GM200 is either 2560, 3200, 3840, etc. cores.


That leaves plenty of room for different versions of Titan- or Ti-esque cards to have the most sophisticated hardware enthusiast quadruple dip within a generation









450$ sounds too good to be true imho. I do not believe that.

We are so close


----------



## CalinTM

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CLOOOOOOOOOOOOOSEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !!!


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Sounds like they are chomping at the bit.
> 
> Good to see NV is moving away from one output from each card for Surround... I hope this means g-sync surround is around the corner. ASUS claims it works but I haven't seen any proof of such from NV.


They did a live demo with pcper of surround G-Sync a few weeks ago.


----------



## Olivon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> GM200 is either 2560, 3200, 3840, etc. cores.


3200 will be good


----------



## CalinTM

The next driver branch for GM204 is R343.

If u add up 3+4+3, equals 10, means the 980 will be 10% faster than 780 Ti. And 10% expensive than 680 launch day


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> Hope that dvi is dual link... if not 144hz monitors are screwed up


I'm sure it will be. They are aiming at 4K+ now which means DLDVI will probably be the slowest interface.


----------



## lifeskills

woops. I just bought a 780ti yesterday. Will the 980 compete in editing programs that utilize cuda cores, such as Adobe Premiere Pro? I am a 90% editor/ 10% gamer so I got this mainly for work. Anyone think the 980 will benefit me more, even with less cuda cores?


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Sounds like they are chomping at the bit.
> 
> Good to see NV is moving away from one output from each card for Surround... I hope this means g-sync surround is around the corner. ASUS claims it works but I haven't seen any proof of such from NV.


I think petersen and Pcper were demoing it a few weeks back. Back then they said it required 3 cards but heavily hinted at future ones including 3 dp.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> The next driver branch for GM204 is R343.
> 
> If u add up 3+4+3, equals 10, means the 980 will be 10% faster than 780 Ti. And 10% expensive than 680 launch day


half life 3 confirmed.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> They did a live demo with pcper of surround G-Sync a few weeks ago.


Sweet because last time I checked, when Swift dropped it wasn't mentioned anywhere on NV FAQ.

That may be my next jump. Just want to verify that NV doesn't find away to lock out "free sync" from NV cards. That would be a driver side thing, right? So even if they did lock it out on a software level people would wiggle around it.

That ALMOST makes me want to drop 3k on 3x 980s and 3x Swift but I'm forcing my self to NOT be on the bleeding edge this time around due to my hours getting halved due to going back to school.

Pay cut in half = bye bye toy budget, bye bye


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Sweet because last time I checked, when Swift dropped it wasn't mentioned anywhere on NV FAQ.
> 
> That may be my next jump. Just want to verify that NV doesn't find away to lock out "free sync" from NV cards. That would be a driver side thing, right? So even if they did lock it out on a software level people would wiggle around it.


"Lock out" may not be the best term, but they've stated that they don't have plans to support it.

I mean, if you want to write a third-party A-Sync driver for an Nvidia card, go ahead, but I won't hold my breath. FreeSync itself says it requires Radeon cards.


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Princess Garnet*
> 
> I would be okay with prices like that. I was hoping for the GeForce GTX 970 to fall around $379.99 to $399.99 at most, and the GeForce GTX 980 to be no more than $499.99.
> 
> Either way, I can't imagine them being much more expensive than that, and the better models will be more expensive, of course, but I think AMD's price/performance is considered much better right now (someone correct me if I'm wrong), and this is a mid-range chip (I'm talking about the chip, not performance), and 28nm is matured, so even with performance like is rumored, I wasn't expecting $600 or $650 from a GeForce GTX 980. The price drops on existing cards are a bit telling, too. Also, wouldn't this generation sort of have to "reset the pricing" a bit if they hope to charge more for the bigger Maxwell chips later?
> 
> The other thread rumored the GeForce GTX 960 to be a sub $300 card, which is usually the target price point for the GeForce GTX x60 class cards, right? If the GeForce GTX 970 was like $450, and the GeForce GTX 980 $600 or $650, wouldn't that leave too big of gaps?
> 
> Somewhere between your prices and the rumored $400 and $500 price points make the most sense to me so far.


At least this somebody's "bid" was lower than your "ask".








Way to adjust expectations to a higher price point... Lol


----------



## JustSomebody

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdr09*
> 
> i think $450 would be nice for the 980. a much slower 770 was that when it came out.


Very correct thinking bro! And it has same cooler the 980 has for the must part! the overall costs are easily being kept low.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kostacurtas*
> 
> 
> 
> Source


Yup, everyone who someone in the technical review / hardware side of things has a gtx 980 / 970 atm or talking to each other in house about it.

From my view point, A single 980 will easily keep you guys gaming in max settings on a single 1080p /2K setup + any DX12 games coming out in late 2015 to Pascal architecture gets here in late 2016 time wise.

Now for you guys who want only the best right now and can't wait to late 2015....
The titan 2 is coming out later just in time for xmas sales, it will be marketed just like the original titan, Aimed at 4K / heavy work station users , classic up-selling if you ask me. Just get 2 or 3 980s for 4k gaming.


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> Sweet because last time I checked, when Swift dropped it wasn't mentioned anywhere on NV FAQ.
> 
> That may be my next jump. Just want to verify that NV doesn't find away to lock out "free sync" from NV cards. That would be a driver side thing, right? So even if they did lock it out on a software level people would wiggle around it.
> 
> That ALMOST makes me want to drop 3k on 3x 980s and 3x Swift but I'm forcing my self to NOT be on the bleeding edge this time around due to my hours getting halved due to going back to school.
> 
> Pay cut in half = bye bye toy budget, bye bye


Well, as a fellow Titan/Titans buyer.







, I am in no hurry myself. Patience is a friend in this industry. Lol
As for swift (OT), no way I am putting my "visual expenditure" eggs in the same gpu basket, unless the gpu features were free. Otherwise , I am essentially paying more for my gpu, while taking the risk of the gpu maker turning off these features to promote the next upgrade cycle.
Tying in the install base is reward enough for the gpu maker. This is just my opinion, and probably based on my own philosophical aversion to attaching a premium to a transaction which adds more risk for me than reward. Others might not agree.


----------



## Roelv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustSomebody*
> 
> The titan 2 is coming later just in time for xmas sales, it will be marketed just like the original titan, Aimed at 4K / heavy work station users , classic up-selling if you ask me. Just get 2 gtx 980s.....


I hope you're correct about the Titan releasing that soon. I would rather go that route instead of SLI + 2 waterblocks, I can wait a couple of months but not an entire year. I am afraid GM210 in December would only be for full workstation cards.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustSomebody*
> 
> Very correct thinking bro! And it has same cooler the 980 has for the must part! the overall costs are easily being kept low.
> Yup, everyone who someone in the technical review / hardware side of things has a gtx 980 / 970 atm or talking to each other in house about it.
> 
> From my view point, A single 980 will easily keep you guys gaming in max settings on a single 1080p /2K setup + any DX12 games coming out in late 2015 to Pascal architecture gets here late 2016 time frame.
> 
> Now for you guys who want only the best.............
> The titan 2 is coming out later just in time for xmas sales, it will be marketed just like the original titan, Aimed at 4K / heavy work station users , classic up-selling if you ask me. Just get 2 or 3 gtx 980s for 4k.


WHO ARE YOU?

When will the 1080Ti come out, or the 780Ti's "upgrade"? Don't care for Titan 2, but will it be 512 bit, 8GB?


----------



## Stay Puft

I dont think GM200 is coming anytime soon. I expect it to be on 20nm and not release till the spring of 2015


----------



## nSone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lifeskills*
> 
> woops. I just bought a 780ti yesterday. Will the 980 compete in editing programs that utilize cuda cores, such as Adobe Premiere Pro? I am a 90% editor/ 10% gamer so I got this mainly for work. Anyone think the 980 will benefit me more, even with less cuda cores?


same question here, any opinions?


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nSone*
> 
> same question here, any opinions?


Impossible to know at this point. Friday we'll know.


----------



## Bluemustang

I plan on slapping my AIO water cooler on my SLI 980 purchase (970s if the 980s end up being over $500). So i dont suppose anyone would know yet for sure that the kraken G10 will fit? Or better yet what VRM heatsink set to get?

PS: Finally getting a balanced powerful CPU and GPU purchase close together. Usually flip flop on those. For example one of my older purchases was a I7 930 upgraded from Athlon x2. Kept using the GTX 260 until i later upgraded to balanced SLI 470s.

No more, 4790k is still fresh


----------



## Seid Dark

I planned to water cool my 780 Ti but it seems stupid now, especially when this card doesn't overclock that good. Maybe I should sell this quickly before the price drops and then buy a 980.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seid Dark*
> 
> I planned to water cool my 780 Ti but it seems stupid now, especially when this card doesn't overclock that good. Maybe I should sell this quickly before the price drops and then buy a 980.


You either got a bad card or don't know what you are doing. Classified's are the best of the GK110 based cards at overclocking.

Or like you said, sell it and get a 980 when it becomes available.


----------



## fleetfeather

meh, my first 780Ti Classy was rubbish too. Couldn't even hold the 1150 boost clock (would only hold 1137). Could happen to any card, really


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> meh, my first 780Ti Classy was rubbish too. Couldn't even hold the 1150 boost clock (would only hold 1137). Could happen to any card, really


That is why i said that it was an either/or situation.










If I was him I would try to sell it now and get a 980.


----------



## szeged

hopefully no one finds his post saying the card is a bad overclocker when he tries to sell it lol.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> hopefully no one finds his post saying the card is a bad overclocker when he tries to sell it lol.


Watch him edit his post now....


----------



## tkenietz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> hopefully no one finds his post saying the card is a bad overclocker when he tries to sell it lol.


Hopefully he mentions it up front. Any time I've sold anything I've disclosed everything and I wish more people did the same.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> That is why i said that it was an either/or situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I was him I would try to sell it now and get a 980.


sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was disagreeing with you. was merely trying to reaffirm that a poor clocker can happen to any SKU; even our beloved Classy SKUs


----------



## Menta

any more "rumor" dates announced ?

a local store in my country hinted the 19th


----------



## Wihglah

Isn't the 19th when the NDAs end?


----------



## fleetfeather

It is.

Actually, what time zone do NV base NDA expiration on?


----------



## szeged

Probably Pacific.


----------



## fleetfeather

cool beans. I should be able to get AU prices before the close of business on friday then


----------



## fleetfeather

970 within margin at stock-for-stock with a 290
970 beaten at achievable oc-for-oc by a 290

looks like it scales like poop lol...



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Remij

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> 970 within margin at stock-for-stock with a 290
> 970 beaten at achievable oc-for-oc by a 290
> 
> looks like it scales like poop lol...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


I heard that unknown 2 is the 970 and unknown 1 is the 960 lol


----------



## Stay Puft

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> 970 within margin at stock-for-stock with a 290
> 970 beaten at achievable oc-for-oc by a 290
> 
> looks like it scales like poop lol...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Stock bios is IMO the limiting factor. Modded bios shall unleash the power.

Skyn3t will save us all


----------



## steve210

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Remij*
> 
> I heard that unknown 2 is the 970 and unknown 1 is the 960 lol


So are these benchmarks just rumors so there not true at all


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Menta*
> 
> any more "rumor" dates announced ?


Yeah, the 19th is the latest rumor.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> 970 within margin at stock-for-stock with a 290
> 970 beaten at achievable oc-for-oc by a 290
> 
> looks like it scales like poop lol...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Any benchmarks before launch are not representative of final product. Wait 'till launch drivers are in place, before judging the products in question. Heck, we don't even know who the unknowns are.

Who does that sound like?


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Remij*
> 
> I heard that unknown 2 is the 970 and unknown 1 is the 960 lol


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> Stock bios is IMO the limiting factor. Modded bios shall unleash the power.
> 
> Skyn3t will save us all


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Yeah, the 19th is the latest rumor.
> Any benchmarks before launch are not representative of final product. Wait 'till launch drivers are in place, before judging the products in question. Heck, we don't even know who the unknowns are.
> 
> Who does that sound like?


You guys are more on the ball with the leaks so far than myself, but is there more than 1 original source stating 980's are restricted to reference at launch. I'm thinking card#1 which is up near 780Ti levels is a non-ref 980, whereas the card#2 is a non-ref 970. I find it hard to believe "leaked" "benchmarks" are only of 970's


----------



## Defoler

I'll wait for the TI version to come out right after amd brings their card, so the 7xx series vs 2xx will do the same.
Than the prices of the 980 will drop and than I might consider upgrading. The 7xx was a let down regarding the cards and expectations.


----------



## fleetfeather

My interpretation is that the author of that above table is not trying to suggest 2 non-reference 970's got significantly different results by using card#1 and card#2 syntax, but rather that non-ref 980's are actually available at launch alongside ref 980's and non-ref 970's.

AFAIK, the only info we have suggesting there's no non-ref 980's is that 'a ref 980 with titan shroud has been spotted', and therefore people have drawn conclusions that ref is the only option at launch.










looking for some critique here from you dudes


----------



## szeged

I'll be grabbing a dcu2 and volt modding it if they are available fast, if not I'll wait for a classified or lightning. Reference is just....so....bad...


----------



## Seid Dark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tkenietz*
> 
> Hopefully he mentions it up front. Any time I've sold anything I've disclosed everything and I wish more people did the same.


Same here. I've never lied when potential buyer asks about how the component overclocks.


----------



## szeged

I've never had a unhappy buyer because they know what a card will do at what temps and volts before buying from me. It's a lot easier than lying.


----------



## luxfps

Looking forward to grabbing a couple Classifieds. It looks like these are going to be more manageable to water cool in 3 or 4-way configurations.


----------



## Velict

amd on their ish right now, bruv. We won't see any sort of "amazing" support until 2016.


----------



## skupples

seriously... You know that are getting that 170W TDP by throttling the hell out of the BIOS. I'm hopeful the code monkeys break into the voltage buck controller on this one as well, as getting around the bios limitations is the easy part.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Yeah, the 19th is the latest rumor.
> Any benchmarks before launch are not representative of final product. Wait 'till launch drivers are in place, before judging the products in question. Heck, we don't even know who the unknowns are.
> 
> Who does that sound like?


Haha, unless of course the "leaked" benches show the 980/970 blowing away everything else, right? Then of course the numbers are totally legit and should be relied upon completely!


----------



## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustSomebody*
> 
> Now for you guys who want only the best right now and can't wait to late 2015....
> The titan 2 is coming out later just in time for xmas sales, it will be marketed just like the original titan, Aimed at 4K / heavy work station users , classic up-selling if you ask me. Just get 2 or 3 980s for 4k gaming.


Is there going to be a compute-crippled GM200 soon after Titan 2? If so, does it have less cores, and when does it come out?


----------



## Roaches

Don't think there will be a TITAN 2 since Nvidia marketing team won't have another GPGPU based supercomputer name to use for its big chip cards. They'll likely go for a new naming scheme for their second generation Maxwell cards....


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Haha, unless of course the "leaked" benches show the 980/970 blowing away everything else, right? Then of course the numbers are totally legit and should be relied upon completely!


I was making fun of JF-AMD









didn't even take the chart seriously, I'll just patiently wait 'till real benches come out. Only 4 days to go


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I think we do have a pretty good idea of how these will perform even if just rumors. My guess is that the 980 will be similar to the 780Ti clock-for-clock with much lower power consumption and a good bit higher overclock potential. If full voltage control is achieved like with Titan and the 780 we could see 1500+MHz cards and at that speed they could be 15-20% faster than max-OC 780Ti/Titan. But I think the voltages will be locked down tight a-la GK104 and the 780Ti/Titan Black's and we will see more reasonable 1300-1400MHz OC's. This series is aimed at people who DON'T already have 780Ti/Titan/290X or who have need of the excellent power efficiency. This is all strictly my opinion however and they could end up somewhat better or worse than I think...


----------



## skupples

it seems like, with the stated size of 980 core, that GM200 would most definitely need to be 20NM. could be wrong though.


----------



## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roaches*
> 
> Don't think there will be a TITAN 2 since Nvidia marketing team won't have another GPGPU based supercomputer name to use for its big chip cards. They'll likely go for a new naming scheme for their second generation Maxwell cards....


GTX DTS Edition (Drop the Soap)?


----------



## Gorea

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> GTX DTS Edition (Drop the Soap)?


With Nvidia customers being the ones who drop the soap?


----------



## Exilon

Ooh ooh, I know!

GT X100

What can go wrong?


----------



## krel

The naming scheme should be pretty obvious.

Titan
Titan 2
Titan
Titan with Retina Display
Titan Air


----------



## Roaches

Kiss price/performance goodbye. $399 for the 970, $599 for the 980. Guess they lied about it being significantly cheaper than the 700 series.

http://www.techpowerup.com/205286/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-and-gtx-970-pricing-revealed.html

Original source http://www.3dcenter.org/news/geforce-gtx-970-kommt-wohl-fuer-399-geforce-gtx-980-fuer-599


----------



## JustSomebody

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> it seems like, with the stated size of 980 core, that GM200 would most definitely need to be 20NM. could be wrong though.


I gotta some pm's and so forth asking more about gm 200.

First off , it's 28nm and it's coming before xmas
Don't worry about how powerful a titan 2 is , your better off getting 2 gtx 980's for price of one titan 2.
(just like 2 680's was a far better value then a titan.)

The current state of 20nm having no high-performance node, aka iphone 6 A8 anyone?

You won't see a powerful gpu on it period. anyone who says otherwise is clueless.

They must have FinFET tech for a high-performance node to make great use the current 20nm tech for the level needed for high end graphics performance.

The 16nm you even been told about is not even really 16nm, it's just 20nm dressed in drag "FinFET"
Late 2015 date all i can give you guys..., it's to far for anyone close to gpu tech to say for sure, however the next major maxwell dropping late 2015 a given with node timelines.

This is the gtx 680 all over again. A great GPU and will last for nearly a year on top as best option for the money hands down.

Personally from what i seen, once you own just a 980 your better spending the added cash on g-sync 1080p or 2k setup like new ROG SWIFT PG278Q

As it will be a noticeable and worth ever penny upgrade, sense where all gamer's here , just force on what matter's at hand game play


----------



## kostacurtas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roaches*
> 
> Kiss price/performance goodbye. $399 for the 970, $599 for the 980. Guess they lied about it being significantly cheaper than the 700 series.
> 
> http://www.techpowerup.com/205286/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-and-gtx-970-pricing-revealed.html
> 
> Original source http://www.3dcenter.org/news/geforce-gtx-970-kommt-wohl-fuer-399-geforce-gtx-980-fuer-599


Techpowerup copied this speculation article from 3dcenter...? Wow.

I saw the article about an hour ago but I didn't even bothered to post it here as a rumor.

It is just an estimation for the price from 3dcenter as they don't provide any source for the prices.


----------



## JustSomebody

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kostacurtas*
> 
> Techpowerup copied this speculation article from 3dcenter...? Wow.
> 
> I saw the article about an hour ago but I didn't even bothered to post it here as a rumor.
> 
> It is just an estimation for the price from 3dcenter as they don't provide any source for the prices.


This ^

Like in my past posts, am happy to say gtx 980 reference is 450 , GTX 970 reference is 350, non-reference cards for 970 being a little more









Also no one has non-reference 980 atm. Give that a little more time.

these websites are jumping all over them selves trying to report "real" numbers! Yet everyone who knows the prices are behind NDA, no one gonna publicly commit NDA suicide just yet, Lucky I don't give a damn, long as am just somebody on a forum.


----------



## friend'scatdied

I want to believe you, but that Liger Zero / Zaber Fang scene just makes me so unsure...

Are you hinting that the 780 Ti is a Zaber Fang?


----------



## cstkl1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krel*
> 
> The naming scheme should be pretty obvious.
> 
> Titan
> Titan 2
> Titan
> Titan with Retina Display
> Titan Air


You forgot about "The New Titan"


----------



## MURDoctrine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cstkl1*
> 
> You forgot about "The New Titan"


What about The Titan One.


----------



## cstkl1

Palit gtx 970 rm1.6k
Palit gtx 980 rm2.3k
This is the rsp price confirm in malaysia.
So gtx980 is about the same price as 780ti n 970 abt the same as 770


----------



## ducknukem86

I had a 780ti before and now i got a 780 classified. I honestly didn't see much of a difference between the two cards. What do you think is going to happen to the 780? I don't understand what the videocard line up is going to look like. Seems like there's a ton of very similar/redundant videocards (regarding performance)


----------



## JustSomebody

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducknukem86*
> 
> I had a 780ti before and now i got a 780 classified. I honestly didn't see much of a difference between the two cards. What do you think is going to happen to the 780? I don't understand what the videocard line up is going to look like. Seems like there's a ton of very similar/redundant videocards (regarding performance)


770 ,780 , 780 ti are all being replaced by 980 970 960 and the titan 2

With you already owning a 780 ti, i would not worry about getting anything besides a nice G-SYNC monitor before jumping on team maxwell
Besides we won't have full dx 12 games to late 2015 and by then the 16nm stuff will be ready for you.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Are you hinting that the 780 Ti is a Zaber Fang?


It may as will be a zaber fang compared to Liger maxwell.

I had great childhood memories of watching Zoids and other giant robot stuff like mighty morphin power rangers! None thing wrong with a void mascot on the box to boot, it be much better then the likes of this....


----------



## ladcrooks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tkenietz*
> 
> Hopefully he mentions it up front. Any time I've sold anything I've disclosed everything and I wish more people did the same.


honesty is a virtue and greed is not but its normal


----------



## Wihglah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustSomebody*
> 
> Personally from what i seen, once you own just a 980 your better spending the added cash on g-sync 1080p or 2k setup like new ROG SWIFT PG278Q
> 
> As it will be a noticeable and worth ever penny upgrade, sense where all gamer's here , just force on what matter's at hand game play


Good advice. That's the plan.

(With a quick stop over at EK)


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustSomebody*
> 
> I gotta some pm's and so forth asking more about gm 200.
> 
> First off , it's 28nm and it's coming before xmas
> Don't worry about how powerful a titan 2 is , your better off getting 2 gtx 980's for price of one titan 2.
> (just like 2 680's was a far better value then a titan.)
> 
> The current state of 20nm having no high-performance node, aka iphone 6 A8 anyone?
> 
> You won't see a powerful gpu on it period. anyone who says otherwise is clueless.
> 
> They must have FinFET tech for a high-performance node to make great use the current 20nm tech for the level needed for high end graphics performance.
> 
> The 16nm you even been told about is not even really 16nm, it's just 20nm dressed in drag "FinFET"
> Late 2015 date all i can give you guys..., it's to far for anyone close to gpu tech to say for sure, however the next major maxwell dropping late 2015 a given with node timelines.
> 
> This is the gtx 680 all over again. A great GPU and will last for nearly a year on top as best option for the money hands down.
> 
> Personally from what i seen, once you own just a 980 your better spending the added cash on g-sync 1080p or 2k setup like new ROG SWIFT PG278Q
> 
> As it will be a noticeable and worth ever penny upgrade, sense where all gamer's here , just force on what matter's at hand game play


So I know you're justsomebody but if I understand you, you're saying gm200 will only be a Titan sku at least this year? Those PMs give you cores, ROPs, TMUs etc?


----------



## Andrew LB

Check out the comments on the site where the "unknown 1" and "unknown 2" cards were benchmarked. It seems "unknown 1" is the GTX 960 and "Unknown 2" is GTX 970.
Quote:


> Trolls gonna troll hard on this article. Three more days till the Final Truth XD. And yes I had to post this new pic again  Btw just so you know.. The unknown card in those benchies well I will let the cat out of the bag... is the 970 not 980. Meaning Unknown 1 is the 960 that will also feature 4gigs. That is why the 980 will come in 4 too 8gig variants. XD 3 more days till you get to see. Also all drivers used in Maxwell leaks are from July


Btw... remember how good the 750ti did crunching openCL for being a low end card? Well check this out.










https://compubench.com/device.jsp?benchmark=compu20&os=Windows&api=cl&D=NVIDIA+GeForce+GTX+980&testgroup=info

If these are true, imagine what big maxwell will be able to do.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducknukem86*
> 
> I had a 780ti before and now i got a 780 classified. I honestly didn't see much of a difference between the two cards. What do you think is going to happen to the 780? I don't understand what the videocard line up is going to look like. Seems like there's a ton of very similar/redundant videocards (regarding performance)


+1 and I just had a 780TI owner tell me no matter what frequency I clock my GTX 780 too it will never touch a stock 780 TI.... lmbo.


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducknukem86*
> 
> I had a 780ti before and now i got a 780 classified. I honestly didn't see much of a difference between the two cards. What do you think is going to happen to the 780? I don't understand what the videocard line up is going to look like. Seems like there's a ton of very similar/redundant videocards (regarding performance)


Doesn't Nvidia tend to EOL cards. Maybe they're going to EOL the GK104/110


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> +1 and I just had a 780TI owner tell me no matter what frequency I clock my GTX 780 too it will never touch a stock 780 TI.... lmbo.


LOL, that is funny.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Andrew LB*
> 
> Check out the comments on the site where the "unknown 1" and "unknown 2" cards were benchmarked. It seems "unknown 1" is the GTX 960 and "Unknown 2" is GTX 970.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Trolls gonna troll hard on this article. Three more days till the Final Truth XD. And yes I had to post this new pic again  Btw just so you know.. The unknown card in those benchies well I will let the cat out of the bag... is the 970 not 980. Meaning Unknown 1 is the 960 that will also feature 4gigs. That is why the 980 will come in 4 too 8gig variants. XD 3 more days till you get to see. Also all drivers used in Maxwell leaks are from July
Click to expand...

OMG are you serious? I've been looking for where those benches came from and were posted but I couldn't find it anywhere, does anyone have a link?

If "Unknown 2" is the GTX 970.








Soon the truth will come from Nvidia.


----------



## omarh2o

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> OMG are you serious? I've been looking for where those benches came from and were posted but I couldn't find it anywhere, does anyone have a link?
> 
> If "Unknown 2" is the GTX 970.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Soon the truth will come from Nvidia.


Well unknown 2 has the same boost clock as the specs that we've seen so far.

Base 1126 Boost 1216


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omarh2o*
> 
> Well unknown 2 has the same boost clock as the specs that we've seen so far.
> 
> Base 1126 Boost 1216


You're right, I have no idea why I didn't pick up on that, I've been following the specs very closely.
I guess I'm too busy stressing and *looking for the original poster LOL*.

EDIT: I just noticed "chiphell.com" at the bottom right of the benchmarks.










I need to stop posting when it's extremely late at night or early in the morning.


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> +1 and I just had a 780TI owner tell me no matter what frequency I clock my GTX 780 too it will never touch a stock 780 TI.... lmbo.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, that is funny.
Click to expand...

lol...probably with the exception of Valley? If my memory serves me right, think at one time i saw 780 beats many Ti on Valley but not on actual game, fps-wise


----------



## ducknukem86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acupalypse*
> 
> lol...probably with the exception of Valley? If my memory serves me right, think at one time i saw 780 beats many Ti on Valley but not on actual game, fps-wise


I bought a 780 ti Superclocked ACX thinking it would be an upgrade from my Evga 780 Classified. I couldn't have been more wrong. The gains in performance were minimal. 3dmark Firestrike did show an improvement though.


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ducknukem86*
> 
> I bought a 780 ti Superclocked ACX thinking it would be an upgrade from my Evga 780 Classified. I couldn't have been more wrong. The gains in performance were minimal. 3dmark Firestrike did show an improvement though.


yeah, i myself came from 780 Lightning before upgrading to 780 Ti. Stock vs. stock, Ti is the clear winner but not by a great margin. The difference I paid didn't reflect the difference in performance.

At an average fps gain on my games, it would seem like i paid ~$150 more for 10 fps gain


----------



## ducknukem86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acupalypse*
> 
> yeah, i myself came from 780 Lightning before upgrading to 780 Ti. Stock vs. stock, Ti is the clear winner but not by a great margin. The difference I paid didn't reflect the difference in performance.
> 
> At an average fps gain on my games, it would seem like i paid ~$150 more for 10 fps gain


Haha, it's the path of the enthusiast. I sold my 780 ti and now i'm rocking two 780 Classifieds in SLI. I'll probably upgrade in one or two years.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tpi2007*
> 
> From the TPU GTX 980 and 970 datasheets:
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> We recommend the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 for gaming with highest details at resolutions up to, and including, 1920x1080.
> 
> 
> 
> They make GPU-Z, they have the specs, do they have the performance numbers too already ? Probably. Maybe they even tested GTA V and Half-Life 2: Episode 3 with it.
Click to expand...

Been chanced since then. The 980 page now reads:
Quote:


> We recommend the NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 for gaming with highest details at resolutions up to, and including, 5760x1080.


http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/2621/geforce-gtx-980.html

Which is the same note they give for the 290 and 290X. And GK110 cards get either 1440p or 1600p single display.


----------



## Roelv

It also says that it supports DirectX 12.0, I suppose I missed that detail earlier but I thought the original rumors said that this wouldn't be supported until big Maxwell?


----------



## Smokey the Bear

http://evatech.com.au/24-below/3493-gigabyte-gtx-980-4gb.html

980 pre-orders are open here for Austrailia.

It looks like based on the price, compared to their 780 ti prices, that $499 - 549 USD is accurate. Less than a 780 ti.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> And that there are NO games for DX12. Anyone thinking about DX12 and some weird revolution needs to look into the mirror (look at AMD and
> 
> SNIPPED BY GOLDENTIGER TO SNIP OUT RANDOM PERSONAL INSULTS


You mean like Freesync, and more than a handful of games that ever have and will use Mantle to any beneficial effect by the time DX12 comes out? DX12 is coming late next year and will make mantle obsolete by all accounts immediately. Developers already are and have been planning to begin using it in practical use cases once available, particularly given that the draw call improvements for less CPU load are going to be compatible with most cards already available in the last several years for both sides of the fence. Mantle was a marketing ploy just like freesync is







.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smokey the bear*
> 
> http://evatech.com.au/24-below/3493-gigabyte-gtx-980-4gb.html
> 
> 980 pre-orders are open here for Austrailia.
> 
> It looks like based on the price, compared to their 780 ti prices, that $499 - 549 USD is accurate. Less than a 780 ti.


Nice, that hopefully means WCCF is correct in saying that the GTX 970 will be $299 for reference models and slightly higher for customs. If that's the case I'll probably go for two custom 970's and call it a day unless the 980 blows my socks off in comparison, even as a current 4k 60hz IPS user







.


----------



## error-id10t

Yeah I had that DX12 there and now it's gone..? I'm not sure what or where I was going with it, except it's not around today, there are no games that use it today or in the short term and the games that will "adapt" it will be a handful and users forced to Win9. Maybe that.. but what that has anything to do with this thread, no idea lol


----------



## FlyingSolo

Alatar what's your thought on the GTX 980. Is it worth upgrading from a GTX 780 SC reference model to this. Will only be gaming on 1440p


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlyingSolo*
> 
> Alatar what's your thought on the GTX 980. Is it worth upgrading from a GTX 780 SC reference model to this. Will only be gaming on 1440p


While we don't have reviewers' numbers yet, we can tell by 3dmark gpu scores and leaked benchmarks that it would be a large (30-35%+) stock-to-stock upgrade and virtually certainly a larger one for average overclock-to-overclock going from a plain 780 (non-ti) to a GTX 980. As to the value in dollars for you, only you can decide that off of what you can sell your old card for and what your cashflow looks like







from there.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> Yeah I had that DX12 there and now it's gone..? I'm not sure what or where I was going with it, except it's not around today, there are no games that use it today or in the short term and the games that will "adapt" it will be a handful and users forced to Win9. Maybe that.. but what that has anything to do with this thread, no idea lol


You edited it out while I was responding to it... you were the one who had brought it up







, which is why it was in this thread hehe.


----------



## omarh2o

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> While we don't have reviewers' numbers yet, we can tell by 3dmark gpu scores and leaked benchmarks that it would be a large (30-35%+) stock-to-stock upgrade and virtually certainly a larger one for average overclock-to-overclock going from a plain 780 (non-ti) to a GTX 980. As to the value in dollars for you, only you can decide that off of what you can sell your old card for and what your cashflow looks like
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> from there.
> You ninja-edited it out while I was responding to it... you were the one who had brought it up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Were there any confirmed 3d mark scores? from what I have seen they are still rumors and not proven.


----------



## FlyingSolo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> While we don't have reviewers' numbers yet, we can tell by 3dmark gpu scores and leaked benchmarks that it would be a large (30-35%+) stock-to-stock upgrade and virtually certainly a larger one for average overclock-to-overclock going from a plain 780 (non-ti) to a GTX 980. As to the value in dollars for you, only you can decide that off of what you can sell your old card for and what your cashflow looks like
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> from there.
> You ninja-edited it out while I was responding to it... you were the one who had brought it up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Damn if its 30 to 35% then i might upgrade. But not 100% sure yet. Already spent quite a lot this month on my new build.


----------



## Offler

For 64 ROPs I would rather use slower memory with more channels (512 bit), but it would increase size of the chip (amount of transistors, power conspumption etc).

Certainly 28nm is limiting both Nvidia and AMD on GPU development..

Most important feature of GTX 980 isnt the performance (according to parameters it will be on same level as GTX 780ti / R9 290x, maybe slightly lower) but the power efficiency. What they did is they designed smaller chip (below 400mm squared) with higher base frequency, and dramatically higher RAM frequency. Smaller chip allowed higher GPU frequency, and the performance of 384bit bus in GTX 780 was replaced by 256bit while using faster GDDR5 chips.

If you already have some top gpus (no matter of manufacturer) its really not needed to go to GTX 980 in my humble opinion, definitely not if you want to improve performance further.

Anyway this is something I expected from AMD at time before Hawaii core was released. More ROPs, less compute units, less memory channels, faster memory. Result is overall same performance (when compared to Titan/780), on higher frequency, but with lower power consumption.

Edit: My estimation of performance is that the GTX980 has 30% boost in base clock, but also less compute units compared to 780s, but as many ROPs. So there might be some boost in performance, but only slight.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlyingSolo*
> 
> Alatar what's your thought on the GTX 980. Is it worth upgrading from a GTX 780 SC reference model to this. Will only be gaming on 1440p


Going from a ref 780 to a ref 980 is probably going to be a 30%+ jump in performance (just how much over 30% I don't really know yet, haven't seen the final benches).

However if you overclock I would expect that tho shrink because ref 780s and Titans have massive overclocking headroom. GM204 will probably clock higher in terms of the final frequency but since it also starts from a higher clock the percentage increase (or in other words, the OCing potential) might not be as high. And most likely wont be as high.

However if you're the kind of guy that sticks to 1.212mV even on the 780 then yeah sure it's going to be a pretty big jump.

Whether it's worth it or not is up for you to decide. Some people demand 300% perf increase before upgrading and some will do it with 5%. Wait to see the prices and final benches and then make a decision.


----------



## Nestala

Can anyone tell me what the probability is that we'll see a non reference GTX 980Ti out in Q1 2015, and would it be worth the wait, coming from a 7950? Or should I just snag a 980 now?
Also, which would grant higher performance, 2x 970s in SLI or 1x980?


----------



## omarh2o

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Going from a ref 780 to a ref 980 is probably going to be a 30%+ jump in performance (just how much over 30% I don't really know yet, haven't seen the final benches).
> 
> However if you overclock I would expect that tho shrink because ref 780s and Titans have massive overclocking headroom. GM204 will probably clock higher in terms of the final frequency but since it also starts from a higher clock the percentage increase (or in other words, the OCing potential) might not be as high. And most likely wont be as high.
> 
> However if you're the kind of guy that sticks to 1.212mV even on the 780 then yeah sure it's going to be a pretty big jump.
> 
> Whether it's worth it or not is up for you to decide. Some people demand 300% perf increase before upgrading and some will do it with 5%. Wait to see the prices and final benches and then make a decision.


You probably don't know all the answers ( even though I really think you do







) But do you think its worth upgrading now from my current 780ti's classifieds @ 1300? I also have a stable 1380 clock I don't use just because I don't have the need to yet, but will be going 3 way 1440p soon. Pretty much my question is, will it be worth the upgrade? like 20% faster than what I currently have. or is the next Maxwell coming anytime soon, like Q1 2015? Also temps are no problem in my loop, full load under 54C. Im really looking to upgrade soon.


----------



## V3teran

Titan II may come around Xmas, it may come after. These are the cards im waiting for, i will be patient.
http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-gm200-(gtx-titan-ii)-spotted.html


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nestala*
> 
> Can anyone tell me what the probability is that we'll see a non reference GTX 980Ti out in Q1 2015, and would it be worth the wait, coming from a 7950? Or should I just snag a 980 now?
> Also, which would grant higher performance, 2x 970s in SLI or 1x980?


If you are going to use same CPU and mainboard as you have now in your signature, I would rather use single GPU instead of SLI/CFx. I think is too early to say anything about performance boosts...


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omarh2o*
> 
> You probably don't know all the answers ( even though I really think you do
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) But do you think its worth upgrading now from my current 780ti's classifieds @ 1300? I also have a stable 1380 clock I don't use just because I don't have the need to yet, but will be going 3 way 1440p soon. Pretty much my question is, will it be worth the upgrade? like 20% faster than what I currently have. or is the next Maxwell coming anytime soon, like Q1 2015? Also temps are no problem in my loop, full load under 54C. Im really looking to upgrade soon.


most definitely will not be wor th upgrading over 1300mhz 780tis


----------



## omarh2o

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> most definitely will not be wor th upgrading over 1300mhz 780tis


Well either way i wont be selling these 780ti's, they will go into my bros rig. so im going to need to upgrade anyway within the next few months. So im not sure if i should just get the 980's or if we will be expecting something better within the next few months.


----------



## CalinTM

CMON !!! Cant take it anymore, help meeee !!!!









Nothing is true, wait for reviews...


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omarh2o*
> 
> Were there any confirmed 3d mark scores? from what I have seen they are still rumors and not proven.


Tons and tons of them:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanfanel;1041087480*
> Here's my latest scrape from yesterday which I posted on the nbforums which shows a dramatic improvement in scores for desktop 980 SLI
> 
> ID Bench Date GPU Score Core/Memory Driver CPU Mobo
> 2734193 09/11/2014 GTX 970 11312 1,140/1,253 9.18.13.4405 i7-4790 MSI Z97 GAMING 5 (MS-7917)
> 2733255 09/11/2014 GTX 970M 7334 924/1,253 9.18.13.4400 i7-4710HQ Micro-Star International Co., Ltd. MS-1773
> 2733602 09/11/2014 GTX 970M (x2) 6332 924/1,253 9.18.13.4400 i7-4710HQ Notebook P375SM-A
> 2733641 09/11/2014 GTX 970M (x2) 14778 924/1,253 9.18.13.4400 i7-4710HQ Notebook P375SM-A
> 2733501 09/11/2014
> 5745 1,127/1,253 9.18.13.4405 i7-4770K ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. Z87-A
> 2737667 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 11317 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4397 i7-5960X ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. X99-DELUXE
> 2737384 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 11479 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4397 i7-5960X ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. X99-DELUXE
> 2736492 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 12856 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-3960X Extreme Edition Intel Corporation DX79SI
> 2736538 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 13608 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-3960X Extreme Edition Intel Corporation DX79SI
> 2736519 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 13627 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-3960X Extreme Edition Intel Corporation DX79SI
> 2737161 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 15590 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-4930K ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. P9X79 WS
> 2737965 09/12/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 16847 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4397 i7-5960X ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. X99-DELUXE
> 2737876 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 17029 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4397 i7-5960X ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. X99-DELUXE
> 2736508 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 17211 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4397 i7-5960X ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. X99-DELUXE
> 2736590 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 18009 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4397 i7-5960X ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. X99-DELUXE
> 2736542 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 18697 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4397 i7-5960X ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. X99-DELUXE
> 2736227 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 18934 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4397 i7-5960X ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. X99-DELUXE
> 2736576 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 20955 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-3960X Extreme Edition Intel Corporation DX79SI
> 2736645 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 20965 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-3960X Extreme Edition Intel Corporation DX79SI
> 2736671 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 21019 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-3960X Extreme Edition Intel Corporation DX79SI
> 2736562 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 21028 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-3960X Extreme Edition Intel Corporation DX79SI
> 2737688 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 24923 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4397 i7-5960X ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. X99-DELUXE
> 2736801 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 25069 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-5960X EVGA INTERNATIONAL CO.,LTD 150-HE-E997
> 2736781 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 25114 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-5960X EVGA INTERNATIONAL CO.,LTD 150-HE-E997
> 2736515 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 25195 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-5960X EVGA INTERNATIONAL CO.,LTD 150-HE-E997
> 2737362 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 25223 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4397 i7-5960X ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. X99-DELUXE
> 2736489 09/11/2014 GTX 980 (x2) 25300 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4405 i7-5960X EVGA INTERNATIONAL CO.,LTD 150-HE-E997
> 2733582 09/11/2014 GTX 980M (x2) 7464 1,038/1,253 9.18.13.4400 i7-4940MX Notebook P370SM-A
> 2733505 09/11/2014 GTX 980M (x2) 18540 1,038/1,753 9.18.13.4400 i7-4940MX Notebook P370SM-A


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vanfanel;1041088339*
> Yeah, that run was probably a failed run. My earlier scrapes had more consistent 980 (single) benchmarks like this:
> 
> 2701047 09/05/2014 GTX 980 12593 1,127/3,505 9.18.13.4391 i7-3770K ZOTAC ZT-Z77Crown-U1D
> 2717498 09/08/2014 GTX 980 12755 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4391 E3-1230 ASRock Z77 Pro4-M
> 2718363 09/08/2014 GTX 980 11913 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4391 i7-4770K MEDION MS-7849
> 2719375 09/08/2014 GTX 980 11758 1,127/1,753 9.18.13.4391 i7-4770K MEDION MS-7849
> 2723031 09/09/2014 GTX 980 12629 1,178/1,800 9.18.13.4391 i5-3450 ASUSTeK COMPUTER INC. P8Z77-V


----------



## omarh2o

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Tons and tons of them:


None of the 980 results can be found. only the 970 results.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omarh2o*
> 
> None of the 980 results can be found. only the 970 results.


Oh wow... I swear they worked a few days ago, 100%. I have a couple saved even I can post later, but here's where those came from:

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041088231&postcount=126


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omarh2o*
> 
> Well either way i wont be selling these 780ti's, they will go into my bros rig. so im going to need to upgrade anyway within the next few months. So im not sure if i should just get the 980's or if we will be expecting something better within the next few months.


I'm not even sure 2 980s will be able to BEAT 2 780tis clocked that high, those have to be monsters


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlyingSolo*
> 
> Damn if its 30 to 35% then i might upgrade. But not 100% sure yet. Already spent quite a lot this month on my new build.


Ya, as alatar mentioned if you do voltmods or such on both it may vary on the final oc-to-oc outcome but if you stick to normal 1.21v or so (i.e. no hardmod), it's probably quite similar a difference in that regard as well.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> I'm not even sure 2 980s will be able to BEAT 2 780tis clocked that high, those have to be monsters


With an outdated driver (launch will be 344.xx), and no power limit raise BIOS around yet, here's what should be an easy OC per all news on a GTX 980...


13776 GPU score. On a reference board since those are all that will be available at launch as far as we know....


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> With an outdated driver (launch will be 344.xx), and no power limit raise BIOS around yet, here's what should be an easy OC per all news on a GTX 980...
> 
> 
> 13776 GPU score. On a reference board since those are all that will be available at launch as far as we know....


Oh I still think the 980's will be monsters, but 780tis [email protected] will be tough to beat, and even if it does beat it, it won't be by anything negligible IMO


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> Oh I still think the 980's will be monsters, but 780tis [email protected] will be tough to beat, and even if it does beat it, it won't be by anything negligible IMO


It's tough to get a 1380mhz stable 780 Ti, but I think a 1400-1450mhz GTX 980 won't be very hard to do with reference-allowed (no hardmod) voltages, while being a lot less expensive, cooler, less heat output into your room/office, etc. Most people on 24/7 air just run 780 Ti at around 1150-1200mhz... to get 1380mhz 24/7 you generally need to overvolt it and/or get lucky on the silicon lottery, as well as watercool to maintain acceptable core temperatures & noise levels, an additional added expense. So overall I think we'll see for most people (average OC's, not golden cards) that the 980 will be $150-200+ less expensive, have an extra 1GB of vram, run cooler/quieter, and a moderate amount faster, than an average custom-OC non-ref board 780 Ti.

(values based on $450-550 reference pricing on the 980, and prior $730-800 pricing on custom 780 Ti boards)

For existing owners of awesomely OC'ing 780 Ti's it'll be a tough sell just like any other previous generational release and at best a slight amount better in raw performance, but for 99% of people it will be an easy choice if looking for an upgrade







.


----------



## CalinTM

13.700 on ref card, with no tweaks and no mature drivers. hell yeah


----------



## SoloCamo

Argh, I just want to see the actual game benchs already. Debating whether or not I should swap my 290x (1150/1550 24/7 if needed) for a 980. Just want to see the OC potential.. last thing I want to get is a dud that oc's like crap and has similar performance to my 290x.


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> It's tough to get a 1380mhz stable 780 Ti, but I think a 1400-1450mhz GTX 980 won't be very hard to do with reference-allowed (no hardmod) voltages, while being a lot less expensive, cooler, less heat output into your room/office, etc. Most people on 24/7 air just run 780 Ti at around 1150-1200mhz... to get 1380mhz 24/7 you generally need to overvolt it and/or get lucky on the silicon lottery, as well as watercool to maintain acceptable core temperatures & noise levels, an additional added expense. So overall I think we'll see for most people (average OC's, not golden cards) that the 980 will be $150-200+ less expensive, have an extra 1GB of vram, run cooler/quieter, and a moderate amount faster, than an average custom-OC non-ref board 780 Ti.
> 
> (values based on $450-550 reference pricing on the 980, and prior $730-800 pricing on custom 780 Ti boards)
> 
> For existing owners of awesomely OC'ing 780 Ti's it'll be a tough sell just like any other previous generational release and at best a slight amount better in raw performance, but for 99% of people it will be an easy choice if looking for an upgrade
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Yup, if I would have had 780tis, I wouldn't have sold them. Unfortunately, I had launch day $650 780s, took a bath on them, but still, am very excited about getting some 980's, these past 4 days with no GPU's has been rough, I actually haven't even turned my home computer on since, it's too sad


----------



## rdr09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> 13.700 on ref card, with no tweaks and no mature drivers. hell yeah


that's what a Ti gets under 1300 core. my 290 hits that at 1280. just for benching, though.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> 13.700 on ref card, with no tweaks and no mature drivers. hell yeah


It does look promising to me, there are DEFINITELY improvements since earlier GTX 980 SLI gpu scores were, on that driver used for the 13.7k result, only around 20,500, whereas later ones with 344.xx drivers were over 25,000 GPU score in SLI.

I also had saved a comparison page of what appeared to be the same test system and card run at stock, and it showed the stock 1228mhz result at 12,451 gpu score while that oc result at 1400mhz was 13,776, still on the old 343.91 driver instead of the launch 344.xx one







.

EDIT:
*The newest driver I've seen in results so far is 344.05, just for the curious.*

Here's a reference-clocked 1140mhz base clock + 1753mhz mem GTX 970 with the 344.05 driver, which takes in a GPU score of 11,312:
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2734193 (link is active at time of this posting)


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdr09*
> 
> that's what a Ti gets under 1300 core. my 290 hits that at 1280. just for benching, though.


1300 core is atypically high for a reference GTX 780 Ti... and not usually even bench stable on most of them without volt raises on custom cards (I had a gigabyte windforce 3 780 ti oc model that couldn't even break ~1200 for benches, and 1140ish game stable, with water and 1.212v for example!). Personally, I wouldn't compare greatly-ocing-sample custom-board oc'd + overvolted cards to a pre-launch (and already-known to be worse-performing-than-launch-driver) result from a reference card of the next gen (I don't know if you were intending to or not but just pointing it out).


----------



## rdr09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> 1300 core is atypically high for a reference GTX 780 Ti... and not usually even bench stable on most of them without volt raises on custom cards (I had a gigabyte windforce 3 780 ti oc model that couldn't even break ~1200 for benches, and 1140ish game stable, with water and 1.212v for example!). Personally, I wouldn't compare greatly-ocing-sample custom-board oc'd + overvolted cards to a pre-launch (and already-known to be worse-performing-than-launch-driver) result from a reference card of the next gen (I don't know if you were intending to or not but just pointing it out).


so there is a possibility that 13700 graphics score at 1400 core will be attainable for 7/24 use? guess we will see.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdr09*
> 
> so there is a possibility that 13700 graphics score at 1400 core will be attainable for 7/24 use? guess we will see.


I'm hearing that will be a very much average OC for a ref. 980, and have seen quite a number of results in the database with that clock and higher over the last few days. Presumably reviewers as per usual on new launches don't have voltmodded BIOS or other tweaks, and very often are lower on OC than most forum users get. Since no one can buy a GTX 980 yet... it's safe to say the results are all from reviewers so far







.

Skyn3t and his brother have said that they are hearing 1400-1450 as "easy" overclocks for a 980 in one of these threads around here...

I'd also note that for example MSI has a "Gaming GTX 970" launching with a 1280mhz rated boost (which as we have seen with 750 Ti's is usually well under in-game boost clocks) out of the box, meaning a 1350-1360mhz in-game clock right away. That implies there is a rather significant amount of headroom for the 970/980 compared to reference: http://videocardz.com/52421/msi-geforce-gtx-970-gaming-with-twinfrozr-v-cooling-detailed


----------



## rdr09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> I'm hearing that will be a very much average OC for a ref. 980, and have seen quite a number of results in the database with that clock and higher over the last few days. Presumably reviewers as per usual on new launches don't have voltmodded BIOS or other tweaks, and very often are lower on OC than most forum users get. Since no one can buy a GTX 980 yet... it's safe to say the results are all from reviewers so far
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Skyn3t and his brother have said that they are hearing 1400-1450 as "easy" overclocks for a 980 in one of these threads around here...
> 
> I'd also note that for example MSI has a "Gaming GTX 970" launching with a 1280mhz rated boost (which as we have seen with 750 Ti's is usually well under in-game boost clocks) out of the box, meaning a 1350-1360mhz in-game clock right away. That implies there is a rather significant amount of headroom for the 970/980 compared to reference: http://videocardz.com/52421/msi-geforce-gtx-970-gaming-with-twinfrozr-v-cooling-detailed


OCN's benchmark threads are ready! I see them taking ove the top 10s.


----------



## Offler

Just searched for ALL gpus on I7- 5960X.

There is result with 12k in Firestrike and "Nvidia Generic VGA" in the list, but clicking on it returns "Result not found". Its dated 12th september.

CPU is clocked to 3077Mhz
GPU to 1406Mhz
12 156 3dmarks.

Looks promising BUT... There is a lot of similar results with EVGA Classified GTX 780ti... (similar CPU and GPU frequency). So it can be simply a bug in submitting the result.

Also looked for this CPU paired with R9.-290x

The best result for this combination is 11687 3dmarks but GPU is clocked to 1000Mhz, not more...

Definitely, not going to be super excited about it right now... will wait until the results are officially confirmed.


----------



## Juub

I'm glad I didn't order the R9 290's just yet. If a single 980 can reach 14,000 graphics score. It makes it equal to my 7950's. They should reveal the cards on Thursday at 6pm PDT right?


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> Just searched for ALL gpus on I7- 5960X.
> 
> There is result with 12k in Firestrike and "Nvidia Generic VGA" in the list, but clicking on it returns "Result not found". Its dated 12th september.
> 
> CPU is clocked to 3077Mhz
> GPU to 1406Mhz
> 12 156 3dmarks.
> 
> Looks promising BUT... There is a lot of similar results with EVGA Classified GTX 780ti... (similar CPU and GPU frequency). So it can be simply a bug in submitting the result.
> 
> Also looked for this CPU paired with R9.-290x
> 
> The best result for this combination is 11687 3dmarks but GPU is clocked to 1000Mhz, not more...


Yeah, the ones I have links to and posted specifically have GTX 980 and 970 as the device names under the driver section, and there were many of them (though the links are now dead) as I posted earlier in the thread, literally a couple of dozen I had saved links to and more that I had seen







.

Seems like 1-2 more days and we'll have the NDA drop to know for sure!


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juub*
> 
> I'm glad I didn't order the R9 290's just yet. If a single 980 can reach 14,000 graphics score. It makes it equal to my 7950's. They should reveal the cards on Thursday at 6pm PDT right?


Yep, they should, I'd imagine that would be a way to start off the 24 hour gaming event. And since NDA got moved up a day, we'll be seeing benchmarks tomorrow.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juub*
> 
> I'm glad I didn't order the R9 290's just yet. If a single 980 can reach 14,000 graphics score. It makes it equal to my 7950's. They should reveal the cards on Thursday at 6pm PDT right?


Rumors are floating they may reveal them as soon as the morning on Thursday but I'd say Thursday at 6pm PDT we will know very quickly since that's the Game24 event that will have the announcement in it's start time.







Everything I've seen so far says we can buy them on Friday, though.


----------



## emsj86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> Argh, I just want to see the actual game benchs already. Debating whether or not I should swap my 290x (1150/1550 24/7 if needed) for a 980. Just want to see the OC potential.. last thing I want to get is a dud that oc's like crap and has similar performance to my 290x.


From all accounts it's not gonna be far better in real world gaming. Stick with the 290x wait for ti or amd x versions of the new cards than y see your money worth


----------



## Juub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Rumors are floating they may reveal them as soon as the morning on Thursday but I'd say Thursday at 6pm PDT we will know very quickly since that's the Game24 event that will have the announcement in it's start time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything I've seen so far says we can buy them on Friday, though.


Any words on non-reference models?


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juub*
> 
> Any words on non-reference models?


Keep in mind I do not personally have any connections. However, the consistent rumor seems to be we will have non-ref 970's at launch along with the ref ones, while the 980 will only have ref. models available for a few weeks at which point we will see custom boards. We will later see 8GB models of all types of card sometime in late Oct. thru mid Nov.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> Argh, I just want to see the actual game benchs already. Debating whether or not I should swap my 290x (1150/1550 24/7 if needed) for a 980. Just want to see the OC potential.. last thing I want to get is a dud that oc's like crap and has similar performance to my 290x.


If you're happy with your current 290x as far as heat/power/drivers/other features go, I am going to hazard a guess that you would not see a major gain (maybe 10-15% tops) with an average OC compared to the 290x @ 1150c/1550m 24/7. Just my educated guess of course, we will know soon(tm)







. I'm cautiously optimistic as to how these cards will turn out but I think that's a reasonable assumption at this point as a "safe" guess.


----------



## rdr09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juub*
> 
> I'm glad I didn't order the R9 290's just yet. If a single 980 can reach 14,000 graphics score. It makes it equal to my 7950's. They should reveal the cards on Thursday at 6pm PDT right?


sticking with the locked i5?


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Yeah, the ones I have links to and posted specifically have GTX 980 and 970 as the device names under the driver section, and there were many of them (though the links are now dead) as I posted earlier in the thread, literally a couple of dozen I had saved links to and more that I had seen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Seems like 1-2 more days and we'll have the NDA drop to know for sure!


If that result about 12165 on 1400Mhz on GPU is real (as it cannot be determined now) then its closer to my estimations as I even expected. (300Mhz overclock from stock to have 12k)...

So it bit cooled down my excitement about these GPUs.

Anyway, even the values it shows may be wrong so... stil nothing real...

to Juub:
According to known information about core and memory config, it think it hit max 11-12k even on OC. Basically equal to 780s/290x but with significantly less power consumption and much less transistors.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> If that result about 12165 on 1400Mhz on GPU is real (as it cannot be determined now) then its closer to my estimations as I even expected. (300Mhz overclock from stock to have 12k)...
> 
> So it bit cooled down my excitement about these GPUs.
> 
> Anyway, even the values it shows may be wrong so... stil nothing real...
> 
> to Juub:
> According to known information about core and memory config, it think it hit max 11-12k even on OC. Basically equal to 780s/290x but with significantly less power consumption and much less transistors.


Where did you pull 12165 from? Combined scores if that's what you mean are not comparable between systems due to the CPU and system memory influencing them greatly. That's why the graphic subscore is compared







. The screenshot I posted of a 1400mhz GPU GTX 980 was on an old (not even pre-launch) driver and had just shy of 13,800 on the GPU score. It also is 100% a real result that was on the ORB, I can vouch.


----------



## Juub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdr09*
> 
> sticking with the locked i5?


Nope. Gonna switch to X99 and Haswell-E as soon as I see real gaming scenarios and prices of the new Maxwell cards.


----------



## Offler

http://www.3dmark.com/search#/?mode=advanced&url=/proxycon/ajax/search/cpu/fs/P/1842/500000?minScore=0&cpuName=Intel Core i7-5960X

Just scroll down to result 22. (single GPU)

Edit: Link works anyway even when t appears broken


----------



## Juub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/search#/?mode=advanced&url=/proxycon/ajax/search/cpu/fs/P/1842/500000?minScore=0&cpuName=Intel Core i7-5960X
> 
> Just scroll down to result 22. (single GPU)
> 
> Edit: Link works anyway even when t appears broken


I see the total score but not graphics score.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> http://www.3dmark.com/search#/?mode=advanced&url=/proxycon/ajax/search/cpu/fs/P/1842/500000?minScore=0&cpuName=Intel Core i7-5960X
> 
> Just scroll down to result 22. (single GPU)
> 
> Edit: Link works anyway even when t appears broken


That just shows me the top results on ORB?

And main index scores are combined, NOT gpu. So they are irrelevant







.


----------



## Ftruck

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but all the leaks of these cards with only one DVI has me wondering, is it still the case with SLI that all the monitors have to be plugged into the primary card? My monitors are crossovers so only have a dual link DVI. Will I be able to plug one into each card or am I going to have to pick up new monitors with displayport?


----------



## Offler

I never stated that I provided Graphics score anyway









Edit: Google digged this

http://www.coolenjoy.net/bbs/cboard.php?id=38&no=20807&select_arrange=reg_date&desc=desc&cat=0&ga=

Apparently the same result with all details.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> I never stated that I provided Graphics score anyway


Yes, I already posted that info earlier from my own saved file, without the picture







. And as I said using combined score as a comparison is useless







, so I didn't get why you were using it to compare.

*Not sure if you're reading what's being said to you at all? Are you talking TO people just AT them?*

http://www.overclock.net/t/1511703/vc-gtx-980-benches/1240_40#post_22858390
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> It does look promising to me, there are DEFINITELY improvements since earlier GTX 980 SLI gpu scores were, on that driver used for the 13.7k result, only around 20,500, whereas later ones with 344.xx drivers were over 25,000 GPU score in SLI.
> 
> I also had saved a comparison page of what appeared to be the same test system and card run at stock, and it showed the stock 1228mhz result at 12,451 gpu score while that oc result at 1400mhz was 13,776, still on the old 343.91 driver instead of the launch 344.xx one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> EDIT:
> [*b]The newest driver I've seen in results so far is 344.05, just for the curious.[/b]


Please take a moment to read what is being said back to your comments?


----------



## Dimitri6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> With an outdated driver (launch will be 344.xx), and no power limit raise BIOS around yet, here's what should be an easy OC per all news on a GTX 980...
> 
> 
> 13776 GPU score. On a reference board since those are all that will be available at launch as far as we know....


please stop.. this:

http://wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/GeForce-GTX-980-Performance-Numbers.jpg

gtx780 ti @ 1300mhz destroys the 980 at 1400mhz. So even at 1250mhz can beat the 980 clocked at 1380-1400mhz. maxwell need to be 250+ mhz abobe gk110 to match it

gtx980 replace gtx780, not Ti. So there will be a gtx980 Ti soon.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimitri6*
> 
> please stop.. this:
> 
> http://wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/GeForce-GTX-980-Performance-Numbers.jpg
> 
> gtx780 ti @ 1300mhz destroys the 980 at 1400mhz. So even at 1250mhz can beat the 980 clocked at 1380-1400mhz. maxwell need to be 250+ mhz abobe gk110 to match it


Uh, yea, I already covered that... 1300mhz is not an easy OC even for custom 780 ti's to reach. And sorry, but aggregated results with no labelled results from a shady chiphell post (which is a Chinese rumor forum) prove absolutely zippo







. The table you show additionally doesn't even say what card is which.

Please stop... this:

(insert meme picture of random gossip girl chattering away with a magazine).

I'm not sure if people are trying to outright troll at this point







.


----------



## Dimitri6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Uh, yea, I already covered that... 1300mhz is not an easy OC even for custom 780 ti's to reach. And sorry, but aggregated results with no labelled results from a shady chiphell post (which is a Chinese rumor forum) prove absolutely zippo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . The table you show additionally doesn't even say what card is which.
> 
> Please stop... this:
> 
> (insert meme picture of random gossip girl chattering away with a magazine).


Ti @ 1300mhz beats the 980 by 5-6 frames. So at 1200 mhz can match it and with 1250mhz is still faster.

and 1200-1250 is a easy oc


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> I'm not sure if people are trying to outright troll at this point
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


As a rule of thumb, you shouldn't take dupe accounts seriously. ( Of course that's just my assumption )


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Yes, I already posted that info earlier from my own saved file, without the picture
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . And as I said using combined score as a comparison is useless
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , so I didn't get why you were using it to compare.
> 
> Not sure if you're reading what's being said to you at all? Are you talking TO people just AT them?


Yes, I saw the list of the dead links to 980s and 970s, but I was missing some real data or screenshots. Didnt noticed its earlier in the thread (Page 129... sorry bit too long to read it all).

I agree that the driver may improve the scores, but if we are talking about I7-5960x (which is supposedly the fastest CPU right now) I belive that even combined score matters...

Anyway 13 000 score on *GPU* is currenly possible on both 780ti and R9-290x. So i am back to the statements ... "It has really great performance per watt", "it does not go over current maximums" and "its certain that both Nvidia and AMD are limited by 28nm".


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimitri6*
> 
> Ti @ 1300mhz beats the 980 by 5-6 frames. So at 1200 mhz can match it and with 1250mhz is still faster.
> 
> and 1200-1250 is a easy oc


1200 is about average for the 780 ti, but even if we took your claim of 1250 that still is a useless graph for the reasons stated before







and 99.9% irrelevant to current discussions. Additionally it is on the pre-review driver (the 3xx.9x at the top declares that, because the 344 branch is in the .0x version numbering such as 344.05).

"And sorry, but aggregated results with no labelled results from a shady chiphell post (which is a Chinese rumor forum) prove absolutely zippo. The table you show additionally doesn't even say what card is which."
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> As a rule of thumb, you shouldn't take dupe accounts seriously. ( Of course that's just my assumption )


Good point, aug 2014 reg date....







. Magically appears and starts harping on the same points as someone else ignoring the exact same things said to dispute them before... and writes with the same wording.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> Yes, I saw the list of the dead links to 980s and 970s, but I was missing some real data or screenshots. Didnt noticed its earlier in the thread (Page 129... sorry bit too long to read it all).
> 
> Anyway 13 000 score on *GPU* is currenly possible on both 780ti and R9-290x. So i am back to the statements ... "It has really great performance per watt", "it does not go over current maximums" and "its certain that both Nvidia and AMD are limited by 28nm".


No problem, though I had posted it under 10 posts before yours







. 13k GPU is possible with high OC's and non-reference cards overvolted with custom cooling or water in some cases for the 780 Ti.... but that's far from average. We'll know baseline average GTX 980 reference-card stock-cooling OC's for sure in a few days but it is looking from early indications like 1400mhz+ is going to be obtainable on the vast majority of cards, which per the scores I linked (unfortunately dead now, but I've posted a screenshot of one I had saved) is enough to outpace 13k by a handy margin even on a pre-review driver (344.xx is the release and review driver for most sites; the result used the 343 branch).


----------



## emsj86

I'm debating watercooling and oc my 780 for around 150 ( since I have tubing fittings etc) or getting the 980. No numbers out set in stone just seems like getting 5-10 fps isn't worth the 500 unless your coming from a lower gpu. I hope I'm wrong and it's a big increase. Bc if so I wanna get a gpu the first month it's out to have something that last more than a year


----------



## Alatar

The highest firestrike GPU score from a 980 that reported a 1190MHz clock that I've seen was around 13400.

Just throwing that out there.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> The highest firestrike GPU score from a 980 that reported a 1190MHz clock that I've seen was around 13400.
> 
> Just throwing that out there.


Sounds like a 1400mhz one only scoring a little under 13800 then is probably hitting the power limiter. Thanks for that tidbit.


----------



## rdr09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emsj86*
> 
> I'm debating watercooling and oc my 780 for around 150 ( since I have tubing fittings etc) or getting the 980. No numbers out set in stone just seems like getting 5-10 fps isn't worth the 500 unless your coming from a lower gpu. I hope I'm wrong and it's a big increase. Bc if so I wanna get a gpu the first month it's out to have something that last more than a year


the way i am seeing this and other threads about this gpu (980) is that this gpu is meant to replace the 680/770. a midrange card that when oc'ed can match a lower clocked Ti. much like how a highly clocked 770 match a stock 780. you have to base your plans after the card is out. some specs may already relevant like the resolution this gpu is meant for.

i cannot imagine how the 980 Ti (if ever) will perform. Boom!


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdr09*
> 
> the way i am seeing this and other threads about this gpu (980) is that this gpu is meant to replace the 680/770. a midrange card that when oc'ed can match a lower clocked Ti. much like how a highly clocked 770 match a stock 780. you have to base your plans after the card is out. some specs may already relevant like the resolution this gpu is meant for.
> 
> i cannot imagine how the 980 Ti (if ever) will perform. Boom!


It should be pretty crazy to say the least... my speculation regarding the GTX 980 as a hypothetical 28nm chip was pretty much dead-on (I said 1920 cores instead of 2048, for example) here: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1806694 .

Excerpts:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger in February 2014*
> *1920 Maxwell cores, probably 7ghz memory speed of GDDR5 like Kepler does at least, and a TDP that fits inside of 200 watts.* Now let's say that you only get about 75% scaling from core count here, which is reasonable even though Kepler scales pretty linearly, but it's a new architecture with Maxwell, so let's make the safe assumption. So a GTX 660 performs 12% better than a GM107 with 640 cores. Triple the core count there with our rough napkin math again with everything else and *you would have a card performing around the same as GK110 fully unlocked by that theory-crafting, at least, and it has better potential for higher clocks thanks to the lower power usage.*
> 
> ...*on 28nm taking around 420-430mm2 with this imaginary chip that would have 15 SMM units.* 15 SMM units times 128 per unit would mean 1920 Maxwell cores.
> 
> I based those power figures off of the numbers above which were of a card at 28nm with a 1085mhz GPU clock,


Look familiar now, when comparing to the confirmed specs?







The only part I was particularly wrong on was that they saved a slight amount of space by going 256-bit and bumped the core count up by 6.7% vs. my assumption (15 SMM vs 16 SMM).

I did a good amount of educated speculation on what I think a 20nm Big Maxwell could end up with, if we see it with 16nm FINFET at this point since 20nm doesn't appear to be coming for high-performance GPU's until at least mid-2015, which I hypothesized could be:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger in February 2014*
> Now we know each SMM will provide around 90% of that performance, and revision 2.0 (second gen) on 20nm will probably be closer to a 100% figure. So let's conservatively say each SMM-based GPC results in a real-world performance of a GTX 660. In other words, around half of a 780 Ti. Now let's conservatively also say we only see the benefit of 75% of the cores when scaling it to 7 GPC's or 35 SMM's. 35 SMM's would be, as you recall *4480 maxwell cores*. Multiply the performance of the 50% card by 7 and we'd have 350% (or 2.5x faster than) of the performance of a full GK110. However, let's now apply the 75% rough rule and we come up with a much more reasonable 262.5% of the performance, or 2.6x as fast as (1.6x faster than) a GTX 780 Ti.
> 
> My predictions, therefore, are that *we will see a Big Maxwell on 20nm with at minimum twice the performance of a GTX 780 Ti*
> 
> *and realistically they can probably fit a stock core speed of 1100-1150mhz of this big a chip in then.*
> 
> Thus my predictions are we would see *a 450-460mm2 die size for this hypothetical card, at 20nm, with a 250-260w TDP rating* and thanks to the 2x transistor density, *approximately 9.2b transistors.*


----------



## Dimitri6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimitri6*
> 
> Ti @ 1300mhz beats the 980 by 5-6 frames. So at 1200 mhz can match it and with 1250mhz is still faster.
> 
> and 1200-1250 is a easy oc


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> 1200 is about average for the 780 ti, but even if we took your claim of 1250 that still is a useless graph for the reasons stated before
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and 99.9% irrelevant to current discussions. Additionally it is on the pre-review driver (the 3xx.9x at the top declares that, because the 344 branch is in the .0x version numbering such as 344.05).
> 
> "And sorry, but aggregated results with no labelled results from a shady chiphell post (which is a Chinese rumor forum) prove absolutely zippo. The table you show additionally doesn't even say what card is which."
> Good point, aug 2014 reg date....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Magically appears and starts harping on the same points as someone else ignoring the exact same things said to dispute them before... and writes with the same wording.


LoL 1400mhz it's the limit for a maxwell 28nm. So a gtx780ti 1200 mhz easy can match it and with 1300mhz destroy the gtx980.
result= oc vs oc the 780ti is faster.

sure a gtx980 Ti will be faster than 780 Ti.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimitri6*
> 
> LoL 1400mhz it's the limit for a maxwell 28nm. So a gtx780ti 1200 mhz easy can match it and with 1300mhz destroy the gtx980.
> result= oc vs oc the 780ti is faster.
> 
> sure a gtx980 Ti will be faster than 780 Ti.


1300mhz is extremely uncommon for reference card stock cooling 780ti cards....







. And 1400mhz is very much not the limit for 28nm Maxwell, even gtx 750 ti's often hit 1400-1450+







.


----------



## sugarhell

I still believe that a 780ti clock to clock will be faster.Now if the 980 memory can do 2100+ then its a different story


----------



## melodystyle2003

I am wondering what temps gtx 980 has, oc/ed or stock.
Results are really nice tbh. I hope their price too.
The 1400Mhz that 3dmark is showing includes boost additional mhz i guess, cause on the 780ti it does not (at least to mine results).


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimitri6*
> 
> LoL 1400mhz it's the limit for a maxwell 28nm. So a gtx780ti 1200 mhz easy can match it and with 1300mhz destroy the gtx980.
> result= oc vs oc the 780ti is faster.
> 
> sure a gtx980 Ti will be faster than 780 Ti.


Dimitri6 are you a time traveler? just curious....


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *melodystyle2003*
> 
> I am wondering what temps gtx 980 has, oc/ed or stock.


Pretty damn low, considering it has a TDP about 2/3 that of a 780Ti.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> I still believe that a 780ti clock to clock will be faster.Now if the 980 memory can do 2100+ then its a different story


I think we will see them pretty similar clock-for-clock on core (with an edge to the 780ti), or with a good memory OC, a slight advantage toward the 980 vs the 780ti.


----------



## y2kcamaross

As long as it's faster than my 1202mhz clocked GTX 780s, I'll be happy.


----------



## szeged

Roman @ hwbot is saying the reference card is hitting 2300 on ln2 so I'd say yeah it definitely overclocks better than Kepler.


----------



## Zipperly

Im debating putting my GTX 780 on ebay today, it has an accelero 4 cooler which I installed and a custom bios which keeps the core locked at 1254mhz no matter what load the GPU is under. Runs at 1.231-1.238vc and only reaches 55c under load.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sugarhell*
> 
> I still believe that a 780ti clock to clock will be faster.Now if the 980 memory can do 2100+ then its a different story


Of course the 780Ti will be _slightly_ faster *clock for clock*. 2048 Maxwell cores ( 398 mm² ) vs 2880 Kepler cores ( 561 mm² ) Do the math. GM204 will clock higher though. We'll see by how much.
Quote:


> For space efficiency a single 128 CUDA core SMM can deliver 90% of the performance of a 192 CUDA core SMX at a much smaller size.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> As long as it's faster than my 1202mhz clocked GTX 780s, I'll be happy.


Definitely faster clock for clock against a 780.


----------



## y2kcamaross

Basically, it should be pretty equal, clock for clock, to a Titan, maybe 1% slower


----------



## CalinTM

So what the hell, we have all the info about the cards, seems to really be the right info. But nothing from nvidia, lol, they really announcing at game 24 stream ?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Of course the 780Ti will be _slightly_ faster *clock for clock*. 2048 Maxwell cores ( 398 mm² ) vs 2880 Kepler cores ( 561 mm² ) Do the math.
> 
> Definitely faster clock for clock against a 780.


Yes and no. GM204 is meant to be a mainstream chip, so probably custom cards + mature drivers will beat GK110. Mainstream beats high-end = evolution.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> So what the hell, we have all the info about the cards, seems to really be the right info. But nothing from nvidia, lol, they really announcing at game 24 stream ?


Yes.







This has been confirmed by many, many sources







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> Roman @ hwbot is saying the reference card is hitting 2300 on ln2 so I'd say yeah it definitely overclocks better than Kepler.


Imagine a custom one







.


----------



## kevink82

My friend just got the price list from Zotac, 980 is listed as 1999 ringgit and placed under the 780ti for performance according to the order form.....


----------



## Bluemustang

All this talk about people waiting for non-reference cards. It was my understanding the only benefit of non ref was custom after market cooling. Are there any other benefits?

Since i will be using AIO water coolers on my 980s i dont care about stock cooling. And might a kraken g10 even fit on non-ref boards?


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> So what the hell, we have all the info about the cards, seems to really be the right info. But nothing from nvidia, lol, they really announcing at game 24 stream ?
> Yes and no. GM204 is meant to be a mainstream chip, so probably custom cards + mature drivers will beat GK110. Mainstream beats high-end = evolution.


Yes and no...

Less compute units, same amount of render output units (ROPs), higher stock frequency. Smaller memory bus (384 vs 256bit) quite high frequency on video RAM.

Fillrate at stock will be surely higher, while computing power will remain about same as on older models.


----------



## emsj86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> Im debating putting my GTX 780 on ebay today, it has an accelero 4 cooler which I installed and a custom bios which keeps the core locked at 1254mhz no matter what load the GPU is under. Runs at 1.231-1.238vc and only reaches 55c under load.


could you point me in tinge direction or a link to unlock my bios bc I would like to oc my 780. I have evga 780 sc


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emsj86*
> 
> could you point me in tinge direction or a link to unlock my bios bc I would like to oc my 780. I have evga 780 sc


I flashed my bios to one of skynets bios's and then I added my own tweaks using this utility.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1452223/kepler-bios-tweaker-v1-26-v1-27-added-tdp-unlock-gtx-780ti-780-titan-gtx770


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bluemustang*
> 
> All this talk about people waiting for non-reference cards. It was my understanding the only benefit of non ref was custom after market cooling. Are there any other benefits?
> 
> Since i will be using AIO water coolers on my 980s i dont care about stock cooling. And might a kraken g10 even fit on non-ref boards?


Non-ref boards refer to better power phases and PCB's as well as simply better cooling.


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bluemustang*
> 
> All this talk about people waiting for non-reference cards. It was my understanding the only benefit of non ref was custom after market cooling. Are there any other benefits?
> 
> Since i will be using AIO water coolers on my 980s i dont care about stock cooling. And might a kraken g10 even fit on non-ref boards?


Yes a lot of them.

First on custom cards we have better vrm's and better pcb components, unlocked voltage, modded bios. All this can make the card to sustain better OC's for longer periods of time, very important longer periods of time.

Also someone told me that his ref 680 just blew, because of the OC he put in the card. And my 680 Lightning card runs with 1267mhz on core, with 1.25v since over 1 year.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> Yes a lot of them.
> 
> First on custom cards we have better vrm's and better pcb components, unlocked voltage, modded bios. All this can make the card to sustain better OC's for longer periods of time, very important longer periods of time.
> 
> Also someone told me that his ref 680 just blew, because of the OC he put in the card. And my 680 Lightning card runs with 1267mhz on core, with 1.25v since over 1 year.


I kind of miss my old gigabyte windforce GTX 680. That thing would do 1380mhz core rock stable with +800 on the mem with the same 1.25vc.


----------



## Dimitri6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> 1300mhz is extremely uncommon for reference card stock cooling 780ti cards....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . And 1400mhz is very much not the limit for 28nm Maxwell, even gtx 750 ti's often hit 1400-1450+
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


omg i said: 780 Ti 1200mhz (pretty common) can match easy a gtx980 1400mhz. And 1200mhz isn't the limit of a 780 Ti.

overall gtx780Ti is faster.

gtx750 Ti has 75 tpd LOL. And 1450-1500 mhz for a 980 will be extremely uncommon.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimitri6*
> 
> omg i said: 780 Ti 1200mhz (pretty common) can match easy a gtx980 1400mhz. And 1200mhz isn't the limit of a 780 Ti.
> 
> overall gtx780Ti is faster.


Oh look everyone.. ... a time traveler.


----------



## Dimitri6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> Oh look everyone.. ... a time traveler.


what? no.

http://cdn2.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/GeForce-GTX-980-Performance-Numbers.jpg


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimitri6*
> 
> what? no.
> 
> http://cdn2.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/GeForce-GTX-980-Performance-Numbers.jpg


It is comical that you hold this ONE *"if not shady"* chart as if it were the Holy Grail of benchmarks for the new cards before the NDA even drops and we have seen reputable gaming benchmarks that we can actually trust.

So yes, unless you have access to a time traveling machine nothing you say at this point is valid.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roelv*
> 
> It also says that it supports DirectX 12.0, I suppose I missed that detail earlier but I thought the original rumors said that this wouldn't be supported until big Maxwell?


All DX11 cards have SOME dx12 functionality, Maxwell is just the first designed with DX12 in mind... How much of that mind? No telling, since we have very little idea as to where MS is in the evolution of the new API.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dimitri6*
> 
> omg i said: 780 Ti 1200mhz (pretty common) can match easy a gtx980 1400mhz. And 1200mhz isn't the limit of a 780 Ti.
> 
> overall gtx780Ti is faster.
> 
> gtx750 Ti has 75 tpd LOL. And 1450-1500 mhz for a 980 will be extremely uncommon.


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> I kind of miss my old gigabyte windforce GTX 680. That thing would do 1380mhz core rock stable with +800 on the mem with the same 1.25vc.


I have a crappy OC 680 lightning, so the most OC that i could game and bench stable was 1276 on core. And +380mhz on mem









Still ok in gaming now, but upgrading to a 980, will be insane for me









Also upgrading for Witcher 3 too


----------



## szeged

All this talk from people claiming The 980 will overclock to x amount like it's a fact.

Proof or be quiet. Wait till Friday to get proven right or wrong.


----------



## cstkl1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *melodystyle2003*
> 
> I am wondering what temps gtx 980 has, oc/ed or stock.
> Results are really nice tbh. I hope their price too.
> The 1400Mhz that 3dmark is showing includes boost additional mhz i guess, cause on the 780ti it does not (at least to mine results).


Update to the latest futuremark system info.


----------



## FlyingSolo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Going from a ref 780 to a ref 980 is probably going to be a 30%+ jump in performance (just how much over 30% I don't really know yet, haven't seen the final benches).
> 
> However if you overclock I would expect that tho shrink because ref 780s and Titans have massive overclocking headroom. GM204 will probably clock higher in terms of the final frequency but since it also starts from a higher clock the percentage increase (or in other words, the OCing potential) might not be as high. And most likely wont be as high.
> 
> However if you're the kind of guy that sticks to 1.212mV even on the 780 then yeah sure it's going to be a pretty big jump.
> 
> Whether it's worth it or not is up for you to decide. Some people demand 300% perf increase before upgrading and some will do it with 5%. Wait to see the prices and final benches and then make a decision.


Thanks Alatar for the info.


----------



## melodystyle2003

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cstkl1*
> 
> Update to the latest futuremark system info.


If v4.30 is the latest, i am using it.


----------



## kostacurtas

Maybe will we have custom GTX 980 sooner that we thought.

Place holders from Overclockers.co.uk:

Inno3D GeForce GTX 980 "iChill" 4096MB GDDR5
MSI GeForce GTX 980 Gaming Edition 4096MB GDDR5

Other place holders.


----------



## Zipperly

Well screw it, my 780 is now on ebay.


----------



## skupples

30%? Not buying it.

I'm also hearing specs may get "leaked" one day early.

Sorry, can not confirm from where, suffice to say, from within gaming industry. No Videocardz, do not PM me for my source.


----------



## friend'scatdied

I hope it is. Even full GK110 is starting to feel slow.

4K users know that feel even more.


----------



## Cakewalk_S

$299 for the 970... Yes please


----------



## skupples

I may have to replace the 660Ti in my living room PC if 970 drops @ $299.


----------



## fleetfeather

980 release price is same as 780Ti. Australian retailers don't price gouge on Day 1, they simply list at regular pricing.

http://evatech.com.au/24-below/3493-gigabyte-gtx-980-4gb.html
http://evatech.com.au/gigabyte/3176-gigabyte-gtx-780-ti-oc-3gb.html

edit: this retailer has stock, so this isn't a place-holder price

http://news.evatech.com.au/2014/09/gigabyte-gtx-980-4gb-early-hands-on-photos-n980d5-4gd/


----------



## rdr09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> 980 release price is same as 780Ti. Australian retailers don't price gouge on Day 1, they simply list at regular pricing.
> 
> http://evatech.com.au/24-below/3493-gigabyte-gtx-980-4gb.html
> http://evatech.com.au/gigabyte/3176-gigabyte-gtx-780-ti-oc-3gb.html
> 
> edit: this retailer has stock, so this isn't a place-holder price
> 
> http://news.evatech.com.au/2014/09/gigabyte-gtx-980-4gb-early-hands-on-photos-n980d5-4gd/


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdr09*


is the







aimed at my post, or the info contained therein?


----------



## Sideways8LV

I'm confused by that post. I was under the impression that Nvidia will be launching the new architecture on Friday (hopefully) and with that a release date and pricing possibly? That Aussie website is going on about having product ready to ship on Friday negating any real pre-orders. Wah?

Edit: Even more confusing is why they have a whole page of pictures yet none on the page where you can buy it. Smells fishy

"Home > Accessories>Monitors>24" & Below>Gigabyte GTX 980 4GB " WAH?


----------



## fleetfeather

I believe paper launch and retail release fall on the same day for the 980 and 970. NDA has been suggested to expire on the 18th, and it is the 18th in Australia currently.

I'd be surprised to hear if any retailers (in Aus, in NA, in EU) don't already have stock waiting to be listed. I've found it's pretty common for Aussie retailers to release details early, probably claiming "the time and date difference" (happened with the Hawaii launch too).


----------



## Arnotts

Quote:


> *The cards will retail for $549 and $329/$349 (different variants) respectively*


Read more: http://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-geforce-gtx-970-pictured-glory/#ixzz3DbdLT1km


----------



## fleetfeather

wow, they're really tracking this thread haha... I only posted the EVAtech link 29 minutes ago


----------



## Sideways8LV

Thanks for the info on the NDA. Didn't know that.


----------



## V3teran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> Yes a lot of them.
> 
> First on custom cards we have better vrm's and better pcb components, unlocked voltage, modded bios. All this can make the card to sustain better OC's for longer periods of time, very important longer periods of time.
> 
> Also someone told me that his ref 680 just blew, because of the OC he put in the card. And my 680 Lightning card runs with 1267mhz on core, with 1.25v since over 1 year.


My 690 is reference like all 690s however not all 690s are reference 100% as there bios is all different.
Saying that my reference card does 1372mhz, not bad for a crappy reference card!


----------



## CalinTM

Aham but the chances to get a good one is only buying custom cards


----------



## routek

$450, $499, $550 and $600 have all been mooted for the 980

If the 970 is $300-350 I'll be pretty impressed.


----------



## Bluemustang

$330 and $550 for 970 vs 980? Thats one hell of a price premium.


----------



## frag06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bluemustang*
> 
> $330 and $550 for 970 vs 980? Thats one hell of a price premium.


If the benchmarks posted a few days ago are true, there is only a ~10% difference between the 970 and 980. With that premium I don't see why anyone would choose the 980 over the 970, unless there is something special about it we don't know about.

This pricing would be consistent with NVIDIA, though, if we look at the 780 and 780 Ti. Hopefully the 980 doesn't cost $550.


----------



## EinZerstorer

I dont know why the mods let these pointless and unfounded threads go on for so long

OCN needs a serious clean up in posting and post styles.

Ie cut out the BS.


----------



## V3teran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> Aham but the chances to get a good one is only buying custom cards


Why is that? Do custom ones come with much better VRM's/Mosfets for pushing more volts which will in turn produce a current? I can see why people see this and i agree to a certain extent but im still on the fence about this. Saying that there were no custom Regular Titans or 690s which probably meant that they all had the finest cherry picked components hence the £900 price tag, makes sense now when i think about it


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V3teran*
> 
> Why is that? Do custom ones come with much better VRM's/Mosfets for pushing more volts which will in turn produce a current? I can see why people see this and i agree to a certain extent but im still on the fence about this. Saying that there were no custom Regular Titans or 690s which probably meant that they all had the finest cherry picked components hence the £900 price tag, makes sense now when i think about it


The VRMs on the Titans were kind of weak. If kept cool enough they sill hold up pretty well though.

Classified/Lighting cards have much better VRMs/Mosfets and more of them to help with overclocking.


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V3teran*
> 
> Why is that? Do custom ones come with much better VRM's/Mosfets for pushing more volts which will in turn produce a current? I can see why people see this and i agree to a certain extent but im still on the fence about this. Saying that there were no custom Regular Titans or 690s which probably meant that they all had the finest cherry picked components hence the £900 price tag, makes sense now when i think about it


Titan is sold only reference, because its not a geforce card, its a workstation card, workstations cards, like Quadros are only sold reference, like Titan too.


----------



## FreeElectron

When does Game24 start?


----------



## routek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> Titan is sold only reference, because its not a geforce card, its a workstation card, workstations cards, like Quadros are only sold reference, like Titan too.






Geforce is a Geforce

http://www.nvidia.co.uk/gtx-700-graphics-cards/gtx-titan-black/

Geforce even lights up on the Titan

Its a dual purpose card,

GF110 aka the 580 is before Nvidia decided to nerf that tier. 580 is a gaming card that also beats the 680 in cuda etc. NVidia make you pay now for a dual purpose/unlocked card and call it a titan much to my grief.


----------



## kostacurtas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> When does Game24 start?


On September 18th 2014 at 6 pm PDT.

http://game24.nvidia.com/


----------



## Menta

time for rumorville is over, now sit back and enjoy finally


----------



## CalinTM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *routek*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Geforce is a Geforce
> 
> http://www.nvidia.co.uk/gtx-700-graphics-cards/gtx-titan-black/
> 
> Geforce even lights up on the Titan
> 
> Its a dual purpose card,
> 
> GF110 aka the 580 is before Nvidia decided to nerf that tier. 580 is a gaming card that also beats the 680 in cuda etc. NVidia make you pay now for a dual purpose/unlocked card and call it a titan much to my grief.


If nvidia marketed titan as a gaming card and geforce, their problem, and the problem of people who paid 1000$ for a so-called gaming card. They paid for ecc memory and double precision rendering and 6gb vram.

Titan is meant for people who buy Quadro cards. Is meant to be a really cheap card for workstation, compared with Quadro cards, who are really expensive. Aka. does the same thing as Quadro, but at lower prices.


----------



## Juub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> If nvidia marketed titan as a gaming card and geforce, their problem, and the problem of people who paid 1000$ for a so-called gaming card. They paid for ecc memory and double precision rendering and 6gb vram.
> 
> Titan is meant for people who buy Quadro cards. Is meant to be a really cheap card for workstation, compared with Quadro cards, who are really expensive. Aka. does the same thing as Quadro, but at lower prices.


It's actually a combination of both and it was clearly aimed at gamers. People can find all the excuses they want but NVIDIA made it clear this card was meant for gamers mainly.


----------



## kostacurtas

Colorful Unveils First Non-Reference iGame GeForce GTX 980


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kostacurtas*
> 
> Colorful Unveils First Non-Reference iGame GeForce GTX 980


Very exciting, I can't wait for Nvidia's announcement.


----------



## PhantomTaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kostacurtas*
> 
> Colorful Unveils First Non-Reference iGame GeForce GTX 980


Much VRM, such phase.


----------



## jakethesnake438

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kostacurtas*
> 
> Colorful Unveils First Non-Reference iGame GeForce GTX 980


Cute that they managed to fit a GPU on that vrm board


----------



## Exilon

That VRM for a 165W GPU. LN2 overclocker's card much?


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kostacurtas*
> 
> Colorful Unveils First Non-Reference iGame GeForce GTX 980


Holy wow thats alot of VRM... and why in the heck is it designed in a rectangle....


----------



## JustSomebody

Must gamers don't read these forums and poor suckers that been waiting for a upgrade will be suckered into newegg deal of the day,shell shocker,
It's just sad people will fall for it.
am posting it here if anyone need it for sli.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130918

EVGA ACX GeForce GTX 780 Superclocked for 420 bucks

The thing is for 350 bucks you get same power in the 970 , and for 30 bucks more a 980 ref. that destroy's the 780
GG newegg, , they sure know how get rid of overstocked cards before having to sell it for even less.


----------



## flopticalcube

Good for SLI if you already have a 780... but that's about it.


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustSomebody*
> 
> Must gamers don't read these forums and poor suckers that been waiting for a upgrade will be suckered into newegg deal of the day,shell shocker,
> It's just sad people will fall for it.
> am posting it here if anyone need it for sli.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130918
> 
> EVGA ACX GeForce GTX 780 Superclocked for 420 bucks
> 
> The thing is for 350 bucks you get same power in the 970 , and for 30 bucks more a 980 ref. that destroy's the 780
> GG newegg, , they sure know how get rid of overstocked cards before having to sell it for even less.


Hey you're back. Spill more GM200 beans if you got 'em please


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustSomebody*
> 
> Must gamers don't read these forums and poor suckers that been waiting for a upgrade will be suckered into newegg deal of the day,shell shocker,
> It's just sad people will fall for it.
> am posting it here if anyone need it for sli.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130918
> 
> EVGA ACX GeForce GTX 780 Superclocked for 420 bucks
> 
> The thing is for 350 bucks you get same power in the 970 , and for 30 bucks more a 980 ref. that destroy's the 780
> GG newegg, , they sure know how get rid of overstocked cards before having to sell it for even less.


Wait... what? you are saying only 30 bucks apart?


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> Wait... what? you are saying only 30 bucks apart?


He's saying the GTX 980 will be $450 (420 + 30)







. We'll see soon(tm).


----------



## fleetfeather

If newegg has ref. 980's at 420+30, ill eat my hat.

Dead set, that is not going to happen. At all.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> If newegg has ref. 980's at 420+30, ill eat my hat.
> 
> Dead set, that is not going to happen. At all.


Never say never....... just unlikely. lol.


----------



## Bluemustang

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustSomebody*
> 
> Must gamers don't read these forums and poor suckers that been waiting for a upgrade will be suckered into newegg deal of the day,shell shocker,
> It's just sad people will fall for it.
> am posting it here if anyone need it for sli.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130918
> 
> EVGA ACX GeForce GTX 780 Superclocked for 420 bucks
> 
> The thing is for 350 bucks you get same power in the 970 , and for 30 bucks more a 980 ref. that destroy's the 780
> GG newegg, , they sure know how get rid of overstocked cards before having to sell it for even less.


Hey, I see you're still standing by your statement that the 970 will be $350 and 980 will be for sure $450, that you have inside info on? I sure hope you are right and not just another troll seeing as i found this article http://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-geforce-gtx-970-pictured-glory/ just posted showing the 970 at $350 as you stated but the 980 at $550.

Time will tell but im rooting for your sincerity


----------



## hurleyef

A bit of napkin math. I've seen lolstralian listings for [email protected] and [email protected] I also have seen a 760 for 380aus and 250us. Assuming the ratio holds, 795*(250/380)=523us for the 980 and 342us for the 970. Not bad at all...


----------



## FlyingSolo

I want to know how a GTX 780 vs 970 and GTX 780 Ti vs 980 does.


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hurleyef*
> 
> A bit of napkin math. I've seen lolstralian listings for [email protected] and [email protected] I also have seen a 760 for 380aus and 250us. Assuming the ratio holds, 785*(250/380)=516us for the 980 and 342us for the 970. Not bad at all...


Swing me your 970 listings, because the 980 listing I linked earlier has price parity with current 780Ti listings.


----------



## FlyingSolo

Damn GTX Titan's are selling for cheap on bay. i might try and grab one or if i can find a Titan black for cheap to put in my HTPC


----------



## Ghoxt

That's what I was wondering if Non Reference was going to come soon, IE EVGA Classy etc... EVGA had the near monopoly on the badass non reference. Classy's & KPE's last round... The HOF's were too rare to be even counted.

Can't wait for the NDA to drop, not for reference, but for clarity on later cards.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FlyingSolo*
> 
> Damn GTX Titan's are selling for cheap on bay. i might try and grab one or if i can find a Titan black for cheap to put in my HTPC


Define cheap? when I checked they were still $600.00+


----------



## FlyingSolo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> Define cheap? when I checked they were still $600.00+


In the UK these are selling for £400 on the bay that's the same price as a GTX 780 that sells here. Well am sure you can find a GTX 780 cheaper tho. But wont be any more since we have GTX 970 and 980 coming out soon. But that's cheaper then a GTX 780 Ti that is selling as of right now


----------



## hurleyef

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fleetfeather*
> 
> Swing me your 970 listings, because the 980 listing I linked earlier has price parity with current 780Ti listings.


The 980 was the one you posted, the price was 795, not 785 as I'd originally posted. I've since updated my post.
http://evatech.com.au/24-below/3493-gigabyte-gtx-980-4gb.html

The 970 was less a listing and more a photo, it was also mentioned earlier in this thread or another. I'm on my tablet at work, so it's been a bit of a pain to backtrack through several threads. That picture was posted on reddit this morning by an individual that claimed it was from Australia. Here is the reddit link:
http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/comments/2gn6bv/this_is_this_what_love_is_supposed_to_feel_like/

I make no claim as to the accuracy of any of these sources.


----------



## emsj86

Should I just get a gtx 789 sc to sli with my other one. (Our there problems with sli on bf4) or just wait for gtx 980ti. I'm thinking 780 I can snag for 300-420 range and get more than gtx 980 and have to pay. 500 plus


----------



## Ftruck

In Australia retailers will soon have on-site medical facilities to allow consumers to directly sell their kidneys for hardware.

I guess $795 for a 980 isn't too bad when you consider certain non-reference GTX670's launched at $780. I expect most retailers to list the 980 at higher than $795 though. Just because they can.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emsj86*
> 
> Should I just get a gtx 789 sc to sli with my other one. (Our there problems with sli on bf4) or just wait for gtx 980ti. I'm thinking 780 I can snag for 300-420 range and get more than gtx 980 and have to pay. 500 plus


What is the rest of your system specs like? CPU and motherboard? system ram?


----------



## vallonen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emsj86*
> 
> Should I just get a gtx 789 sc to sli with my other one. (Our there problems with sli on bf4) or just wait for gtx 980ti. I'm thinking 780 I can snag for 300-420 range and get more than gtx 980 and have to pay. 500 plus


What resolution do you game at and do you plan to play above 1920x1080?

Do you game at 144Hz?


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vallonen*
> 
> What resolution to you game at and do you plan to play above 1920x1080?
> 
> Do you game at 144Hz?


I can think of more than one game SLI GTX 780's would come in handy for at only 1080P and future games will be more demanding. I hear what you are saying but even for 1080P this makes a good setup, specially if you downsample like I do.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sideways8LV*
> 
> I'm confused by that post. I was under the impression that Nvidia will be launching the new architecture on Friday (hopefully) and with that a release date and pricing possibly? That Aussie website is going on about having product ready to ship on Friday negating any real pre-orders. Wah?
> 
> Edit: Even more confusing is why they have a whole page of pictures yet none on the page where you can buy it. Smells fishy
> 
> "Home > Accessories>Monitors>24" & Below>Gigabyte GTX 980 4GB " WAH?


Retailers have had stalk for awhile now. They are chomping @ the bit to get it out the door, and basically telling NVidia to go to hell. I'm surprised no one has blatantly broken NDA yet.


----------



## class101

some store will have it 18 or 19 you think guys ? Not sure how is usually a nvidia release


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> Define cheap? when I checked they were still $600.00+


I almost bought 3 yesterday with EK waterblocks for $625 each single, but negotiable price if buying all 3. I almost did it hehe


----------



## szeged

we will probably see pre orders up very soon.

I figure i may as well grab a some 980s to test out and let the community know if they are locked down or not. if they are, right back to amazon with ye foul beast.


----------



## emsj86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> What is the rest of your system specs like? CPU and motherboard? system ram?


Cpu fx 8350 at 5 ghz , 2x4gb hyper fury 1600 ram in duel channel, asus sabertooth 990fx rev 2.0, seasonic 850 bronze psu, 1 tb hd, 120 gb samsung. Ssd. I just don't get how my oc my gtx 780 evga sc acx ( which btw when oc temps our very good doesn't reach past 62) gets a worse score o. Heaven benchmark than the default clock


----------



## emsj86

Note I play bf4 mostly and game at 1080 with asus 144hz monitor


----------



## fleetfeather

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> we will probably see pre orders up very soon.
> 
> I figure i may as well grab a some 980s to test out and let the community know if they are locked down or not. if they are, right back to amazon with ye foul beast.


Should jump on a 970 and see what you can do with it. I feel the 970 is the more interesting card of the two.

Would be hyped to see die unlocks, clocking to 980 parity, etc.


----------



## TheBlindDeafMute

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> The original 690 cooler was magnesium, and was a lot more expensive. That perception hasn't gone away due to the design similarity, despite the cheaper metal used.


If I remember correctly, only the fan housing was magnesium, not the entire cooler. And to all the people thinking there will be a 980ti, I'm saying there won't be. 680 didn't have a ti, and if this is truly a flip flop type of release, we won't see the ti version until the next model. We will most likely see another version of the Titan because they sell so well.


----------



## emsj86

I oc using msi after burner 100 on clock 200 memory. Temps stay in check power at 106 percent and bump voltage .38mv yet I get 55 avg on benchmark and 62-65 avg on default clock. Very disappointed. I don't know what or why this is happening gpu shows it's at the oc and at 100 percent load temps our ok. I do get the limited by reliable voltage indicator


----------



## class101

will get two directly for more gsync smoothness


----------



## kostacurtas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> we will probably see pre orders up very soon.


szeged it seems you have some info about the NDA lift, is the rumors for the NDA lift one day before the event from Nvidia are true?


----------



## szeged

I dont know 100% but we will most likely see some accurate leaks/articles tomorrow.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emsj86*
> 
> I oc using msi after burner 100 on clock 200 memory. Temps stay in check power at 106 percent and bump voltage .38mv yet I get 55 avg on benchmark and 62-65 avg on default clock. Very disappointed. I don't know what or why this is happening gpu shows it's at the oc and at 100 percent load temps our ok. I do get the limited by reliable voltage indicator


Sounds like the card is throttling.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Sounds like the card is throttling.


Thats what I said too.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kostacurtas*
> 
> szeged it seems you have some info about the NDA lift, is the rumors for the NDA lift one day before the event from Nvidia are true?


I have been hearing that Nvidia will either drop NDA tomorrow, or "leak" official specs. Coming from people in the game development industry, but who really knows.


----------



## fleetfeather

more photos or different 970's and 980's here

I like MSI's cheapo shroud option w/ the 3 DP's on the back. Everything a WC'er wants, with none of the extra bulk


----------



## kostacurtas

LN2 overclock?

Quote:


> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 (16CU 2048SP SM5.0 1.13GHz/*1.63GHz*, 2MB L2, 4GB 6GHz/*8.25GHz* 256-bit, PCIe 3.00 x16) (D3D 11)


Source


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kostacurtas*
> 
> LN2 overclock?
> Source


No. Ln2 is 2.3ghz so far on these per a certain well known prominent bencher.


----------



## emsj86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> Thats what I said too.


Now if my temps reach 70 tops with fans at 75 percent. The gpu is at 100 percent load and power is at. 85 percent what would cause or what could cause throttling. Usually I hear heat causes throttling. Maybe no enough voltage? And if so msi allows me to bo up to .54 mv should I try it


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kostacurtas*
> 
> LN2 overclock?
> Source


soo... just getting some nice icy fog from LN2?

2.3Ghz seems kinda crazy, even with what GK110B is doing.


----------



## kuziwk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Nice, that hopefully means WCCF is correct in saying that the GTX 970 will be $299 for reference models and slightly higher for customs. If that's the case I'll probably go for two custom 970's and call it a day unless the 980 blows my socks off in comparison, even as a current 4k 60hz IPS user
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


970 will be around $399 depending on the retailer not $299,


----------



## MURDoctrine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kuziwk*
> 
> 970 will be around $399 depending on the retailer not $299,


Says you.


----------



## gkolarov

In Bulgaria, EU, the price for GTX 980 is 700 euro !!!! No NVIDIA, thank you but i am not gona buy this card !


----------



## Glottis

why
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gkolarov*
> 
> In Bulgaria, EU, the price for GTX 980 is 700 euro !!!! No NVIDIA, thank you but i am not gona buy this card !


don't blame nvidia for corrupt retailers price gauging in your country.


----------



## gkolarov

Maybe i have to blame myself, because i have to work for two months and do not eat anything or paying bills (to save money) to collect the money for one GTX 980 card


----------



## 2010rig

Maybe a 980 shouldn't be your biggest priority. You already have a 290.


----------



## pbvider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gkolarov*
> 
> In Bulgaria, EU, the price for GTX 980 is 700 euro !!!! No NVIDIA, thank you but i am not gona buy this card !


Buy the card from Germany,it`s 539 euro a ref card or wait for the card to be released and search for another retailer.
I would just wait and get a card from an AIB with the new AC game.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Glottis*
> 
> why
> don't blame nvidia for corrupt retailers price gauging in your country.


This...







.


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Glottis*
> 
> why
> don't blame nvidia for corrupt retailers price gauging in your country.


This is problem of whole eastern Europe. Hardware is transported by ship to France, England, and Germany, and then by trucks to the east and re-sold thought 3 different companies. And each of these will increase the price by some percentage... So components here may have prices by 17-79% higher. And when prices in the west drop, it will take month or two until they drop here...


----------



## class101

y-up even in France the GTX780 Ti is on sale from 650 to 580, only -8% at materiel net

Guess we will have the 980 around 650 too minimum







(euros)


----------



## Luciferxy

not just eastern europe though, here in asia, price can be outrageous. Heck, the GTX 660 still wont budge from last year pricing, which is around $230~$250.

GTX 980 could end up the same price with 780Ti launch price, or worst can be ~$100 more expensive.


----------



## class101

I guess it is not legit to import a card from a US $ currency country right ? I believe they are not allowed to


----------



## Wicked x Josh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Offler*
> 
> This is problem of whole eastern Europe. Hardware is transported by ship to France, England, and Germany, and then by trucks to the east and re-sold thought 3 different companies. And each of these will increase the price by some percentage... So components here may have prices by 17-79% higher. And when prices in the west drop, it will take month or two until they drop here...


Doesn't sound as bad as New Zealand. They only have 2 companies to order from on their mainland. Both have extremely high markups. Me and my friend from NZ each bought the same keyboard, the new K70 RGB, he paid $240 NZ dollars, wich is like $210 US, well I only paid $160 US.

We both built our gaming rigs around the same time. I paid like $100 less though. He's has some average ASUS mobo with a 2600k and 660ti. I have a Maximus Gene with a 3770k and 670.


----------



## Glottis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *class101*
> 
> I guess it is not legit to import a card from a US $ currency country right ? I believe they are not allowed to


you can import from US to EU all you want, it's just there's a high import tax to discourage such behavior.


----------



## cstkl1

Confirmed zotac gtx970 rm1150.
Exchange usd1 to rm3.25.
Usd 353.

Zotac 980 is rm1890
Usd581

Zotac prices here abt the same as us prices.
Since its from hk.


----------



## CalinTM

I saw that the 980 has only one DVI port. And its called DVI-I. And 970 has 2 DVI ports, called DVI-I and DVI-D

What the heck means ? I mean if i grab a 980, i will be able to hook it up with my 144hz monitor ? I mean it will work at 144hz


----------



## Offler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cstkl1*
> 
> Confirmed zotac gtx970 rm1150.
> Exchange usd1 to rm3.25.
> Usd 353.
> 
> Zotac 980 is rm1890
> Usd581
> 
> Zotac prices here abt the same as us prices.
> Since its from hk.


We will have same prices... but not in us dollars... in euro... (about 25% more expensive).


----------



## sugarhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> I saw that the 980 has only one DVI port. And its called DVI-I. And 970 has 2 DVI ports, called DVI-I and DVI-D
> 
> What the heck means ? I mean if i grab a 980, i will be able to hook it up with my 144hz monitor ? I mean it will work at 144hz


DVI-I has a digital and an analog signal compared to only digital of dvi-d


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> I saw that the 980 has only one DVI port. And its called DVI-I. And 970 has 2 DVI ports, called DVI-I and DVI-D
> 
> What the heck means ? I mean if i grab a 980, i will be able to hook it up with my 144hz monitor ? I mean it will work at 144hz


One has an analog output and one does not. You're good to go using a digital monitor regardless!









http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/221/~/what-is-the-difference-between-dvi-i-and-dvi-d%3F


----------



## CalinTM

Yaaay so it will work, nice.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> Yaaay so it will work, nice.


Just to make it crystal clear, yes it will







.


----------



## jakethesnake438

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wicked x Josh*
> 
> Doesn't sound as bad as New Zealand. They only have 2 companies to order from on their mainland. Both have extremely high markups. Me and my friend from NZ each bought the same keyboard, the new K70 RGB, he paid $240 NZ dollars, wich is like $210 US, well I only paid $160 US.
> 
> We both built our gaming rigs around the same time. I paid like $100 less though. He's has some average ASUS mobo with a 2600k and 660ti. I have a Maximus Gene with a 3770k and 670.


Yep, ill deffs be importing a 970. nz pricing sucks


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *emsj86*
> 
> Now if my temps reach 70 tops with fans at 75 percent. The gpu is at 100 percent load and power is at. 85 percent what would cause or what could cause throttling. Usually I hear heat causes throttling. Maybe no enough voltage? And if so msi allows me to bo up to .54 mv should I try it


With these cards you throttle when you reach the TDP limit.


----------



## frag06

NVIDIA Maxwell GeForce GTX 980 and GeForce GTX 970 Performance Numbers Leaked

WCCF


----------



## omarh2o

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frag06*
> 
> 
> NVIDIA Maxwell GeForce GTX 980 and GeForce GTX 970 Performance Numbers Leaked
> 
> WCCF


According to this, 780ti stock at 928 and the the 980 stock at 1216, the 980 is faster than the 780ti by 13% in gaming. not bad but nothing crazy. So what clock is needed on a 980 to beat a 780ti @1306mhz? a 980 at 1700? would that be possible on a average custom card? so many questions.


----------



## tkenietz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frag06*
> 
> 
> NVIDIA Maxwell GeForce GTX 980 and GeForce GTX 970 Performance Numbers Leaked
> 
> WCCF


970 1.57% faster than 290x, 4.63% slower than [email protected] Since when is an OC model 780 faster than 290x


----------



## steve210

http://www.nowinstock.net/computers/videocards/nvidia/
I've use this site in past to purchase videocards but no 970 or 980 not listed yet


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tkenietz*
> 
> 970 1.57% faster than 290x, 4.63% slower than [email protected] Since when is an OC model 780 faster than 290x


This is something that many cannot seem to grasp nor do they want to deal with it, I speak from first hand experience as I bought a 290X at launch eventually installed aftermarket cooling.. I had a rock solid core overclock of 1200mhz with Zero throttling and load temps of 64c. I recently purchased a GTX 780 for kicks and to compare the two cards overclocked... I now only have the GTX 780 as I got rid of the 290X. What I noticed is that GK110 gets a very nice boost from an overclock, the scaling is very good while it is extremely sub par with Hawaii. My 780 at 1254mhz core with no throttle has no problems at all beating my old 290X which was clocked to 1200mhz core. Stock for stock is another story, the 290X is faster but when you start cranking up the core clocks the 780 pulls away.

Note that I owned both cards at the same time, I have no reason to have an allegiance to either side but I did obviously choose to keep the faster of the two cards. I know a lot are going to rage over me saying this and thats to be expected but honestly I could care less because I have first hand experience with both GPU's which is something not a lot of people can say so they tend to defend their purchase.


----------



## tkenietz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> This is something that many cannot seem to grasp nor do they want to deal with it, I speak from first hand experience as I bought a 290X at launch eventually installed aftermarket cooling.. I had a rock solid core overclock of 1200mhz with Zero throttling and load temps of 64c. I recently purchased a GTX 780 for kicks and to compare the two cards overclocked... I now only have the GTX 780 as I got rid of the 290X. What I noticed is that GK110 gets a very nice boost from an overclock, the scaling is very good while it is extremely sub par with Hawaii. My 780 at 1254mhz core with no throttle has no problems at all beating my old 290X which was clocked to 1200mhz core. Stock for stock is another story, the 290X is faster but when you start cranking up the core clocks the 780 pulls away.
> 
> Note that I owned both cards at the same time, I have no reason to have an allegiance to either side but I did obviously choose to keep the faster of the two cards. I know a lot are going to rage over me saying this and thats to be expected but honestly I could care less because I have first hand experience with both GPU's which is something not a lot of people can say so they tend to defend their purchase.


I'm not attached to either side, just going by benchmarks I've seen where at 1ghz clock 290x has higher scores.Not talking about which performs better when pushed.

Even if I'm wrong, which i may be since I can't reference my own personal experience, it's then faster than reference 290x but 4.6% slower than oc model 780, that would mean it's prob faster than a reference 780. Why didn't they just say that...


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tkenietz*
> 
> Even if I'm wrong, which i may be since I can't reference my own personal experience, it's then faster than reference 290x but 4.6% slower than oc model 780, that would mean it's prob faster than a reference 780. Why didn't they just say that...


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## skupples

this is just the beginning. The walls come tumbling down today.


----------



## emsj86

I can't wait to see real world in game fps gains. All the benchmarking doesn't do it for me bc a better score doesn't always bring better real world on game gains


----------



## emsj86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> With these cards you throttle when you reach the TDP limit.


What can help not reaching the tdp. Better cooling ? I thought 82 was the max safe temp for these cards (gtx. 780)


----------



## melodystyle2003

Can anyone figure out what's their max core speed, shown in gpu-z screenshots?
1358mhz on the gtx980 scoring 13809 gpu score?


----------



## skupples

well, if it's true that LN2 pros are hitting well over 2GHZ, then that seems completely plausible.


----------



## skupples




----------



## frag06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*


Looks like it may be a reference model. There is no mention of an ACX cooler, but they don't always put that on the box. No mention of GPU Boost 2.0, either.


----------



## Mand12

So on 4GB vs 8GB - what are the applications that would actually see a performance difference between the two?


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> So on 4GB vs 8GB - what are the applications that would actually see a performance difference between the two?


someone running triple 4K, with 4K GPUs, so they have enough horse power to even push the settings required for that kinda VRAM usage.


----------



## Mand12

That EVGA box looks mighty tempting then. Very likely that will be my pick.

(and hope for GM200 before the end of the year for step-up!)


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> That EVGA box looks mighty tempting then. Very likely that will be my pick.
> 
> (and hope for GM200 before the end of the year for step-up!)


yup. That's what I'm going to do as well, i think.


----------



## QxY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> So on 4GB vs 8GB - what are the applications that would actually see a performance difference between the two?


Anyone doing 3D rendering would appreciate all the VRAM they can get. I use Blender's Cycles engine (CUDA) and you'd be surprised how much heavy scenes eats up VRAM.


----------



## Wihglah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mand12*
> 
> That EVGA box looks mighty tempting then. Very likely that will be my pick.
> 
> (and hope for GM200 before the end of the year for step-up!)


Hmmm - but it's only a reference card surely?

I'm going to put one under water, not sure if I should wait for better VRMs.


----------



## LBear

Is EVGA making FTW models?


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LBear*
> 
> Is EVGA making FTW models?


who knows. FTW is a strange series, it's never the same thing twice. Some of them are identical to reference, some have a few more VRMs, just never know what they are going to do.


----------



## vallonen

EVGA have too many versions imo, it's a bit of a mess.


----------



## Skinnered

Nice piece, allthough the perf difference with the R290x, when the res increases, seems to get less quickly. I wonder what it is at 4K and in SLI vs CF.


----------



## frag06

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 and GTX 970 press slides, pictures, charts.

VC


----------



## skupples

This is all calculated. The tip I got yesterday told me that Nvidia was going to start letting people push out "leaked" reviews throughout today, leading up to the stream tomorrow. #hype

what the hell is 'VR Direct" ?


----------



## frag06

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *skupples*
> 
> This is all calculated. The tip I got yesterday told me that Nvidia was going to start letting people push out "leaked" reviews throughout today, leading up to the stream tomorrow. #hype


Yeah, looks like your info was right.

As for the cards, if those slides are real, it looks like the 970 might be the smart buy. The 970 and 980 are only a few FPS apart in most games from those slides. It looks a lot like the difference between the 780 and 780 Ti, in both performance and price.


----------



## CalinTM

The performance vs. 780 Ti is nice. Also + the added mature drivers from the future will make even better.

Also, 780 Ti has the stock core speed, so 980 1200 vs 867 ?! Is kinda jerky...

Many 780 Ti can reach easy 1200+ core.


----------



## rdr09

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frag06*
> 
> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 980 and GTX 970 press slides, pictures, charts.
> 
> VC


that 980 is fast. it matches a 290 @1000. based on FS.


----------



## skupples

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> The performance vs. 780 Ti is nice. Also + the added mature drivers from the future will make even better.
> 
> Also, 780 Ti has the stock core speed, so 980 1200 vs 867 ?! Is kinda jerky...
> 
> Many 780 Ti can reach easy 1200+ core.


yeah... I don't really understand that. You don't see many people running their 780Ti's below 1.1giggles


----------



## Wihglah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CalinTM*
> 
> Also + the added mature drivers from the future will make even better.


QFT


----------



## Alatar

Please continue here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1513723/various-nvidia-gtx-980-970-reviews-nda-not-lifted-yet


----------

