# [overclockersclub]NVIDIA Announces DSR: 4K-Quality Graphics on Any HD Monitor



## HighTemplar

Interesting indeed.

+1


----------



## SuprUsrStan

Basically easier accessibility of SSAA.


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> Basically easier accessibility of SSAA.


Which is wonderful considering the incompatibilities of supersampling&downsampling, I wish it would garner wider adoption.


----------



## Asmodean

Sounds good overall. In theory at least .Time will tell, if it actually works well. Depending on the post processing framework a given game/engine uses, it will still cause visual problems regardless of it being 'officially' supported now.

Saying that, it _is_ nice too see them continue improving things on the VQ side of things, rather then putting all effort in the cutting performance corners to attain higher benchmark scores vs the competition, etc.


----------



## L D4WG

Interesting, I wonder if the performance hit is what you would get running an actual 4K screen? Or perhaps ever more since it need to downscale the image to your screens res?


----------



## szeged

i wanna know if its limited to just 4k or can it downsample from say 8k or so.


----------



## kingduqc

Easier downsampling, me like.

does it work of 1440p and do you downscale from 4x 1440p or from 4k.


----------



## 8800GT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L D4WG*
> 
> Interesting, I wonder if the performance hit is what you would get running an actual 4K screen? Or perhaps ever more since it need to downscale the image to your screens res?


As someone who has tested this with gedosato and a 4k screen, it is almost exactly the same. No performance hit for scaling really. It looks surprisingly good as well in comparison. Obviously native 4k textures would change that but its impressive what sampling can do. Witcher 2 in 4k and 8k looks damn good, even if it runs like you would expect it to.


----------



## TheBlindDeafMute

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> i wanna know if its limited to just 4k or can it downsample from say 8k or so.


I read somewhere that they were not going to support 6k or 8k. I'll find the article later, on mobile now


----------



## szeged

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBlindDeafMute*
> 
> I read somewhere that they were not going to support 6k or 8k. I'll find the article later, on mobile now


well that makes dsr useless for me lol, already have a 4k monitor.


----------



## zantetheo

is this the same thing as resolution scale on Battlefield 4?


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zantetheo*
> 
> is this the same thing as resolution scale on Battlefield 4?


Yes. Or like SSAA in Metro: Last Light


----------



## TheMentalist

Wonder what the performance difference is between this and SSAA. Looks like a good solution.


----------



## CoD511

This is very good in my books, easily accessible and widely compatible. Definitely hope they make it available to other cards.


----------



## dogroll

Will it allow custom resolutions or only predefined YX values?


----------



## Defoler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *szeged*
> 
> i wanna know if its limited to just 4k or can it downsample from say 8k or so.


I guess its possible if you for example have a 4K monitor and want an upscale. I'm not sure the benefit of 8K on a 1080p though.
But I guess its possible at some point, just not now as it should stress out the GPU to render at 4K and just downscale the output to 1080p. You won't get the same fps as just only 1080p and I think 8K rendering is still in a bit far performance wise to do it.


----------



## TFL Replica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheMentalist*
> 
> Wonder what the performance difference is between this and SSAA. Looks like a good solution.


It's a good solution in terms of performance, but it has its issues. DSR applies to the entire screen, so depending on the game, it can have adverse effects on things like text, the HUD, minimaps, etc. It's also harder to take screenshots, because regular screenshot utilities will just capture the source resolution, rather than the downsampled (and filtered) target resolution. GeDoSaTo is superior in this regard, because it's capable of capturing both.


----------



## CherryWiggins

I didn't see much of a difference with that video example..


----------



## DFroN

Quote:


> "and by integrating DSR into GeForce Experience"


Do you need GeForce Experience installed to use DSR or can it be accessed through the Nvidia control panel?


----------



## TFL Replica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daffron*
> 
> Do you need GeForce Experience installed to use DSR or can it be accessed through the Nvidia control panel?


It will be a configurable option in the control panel.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CherryWiggins*
> 
> I didn't see much of a difference with that video example..


You must not know what to look for.


----------



## hollowtek

Man I'm glad I ordered the 970 when I did. Downsampling for AMD is such a pain.


----------



## BinaryDemon

I'm building my current system looking towards 4k. I have 2x gtx970's coming shortly but I don't own a 4k monitor yet.

Ok here's my question- If I use 4k DSR will that give me a good approximation of what my performance would be like when gaming at 4k? Anyone doing benchmarks using 4k DSR?


----------



## Daredevil 720

I have been using downsampling for quite some time now and I believe it adds a lot of detail to some (but not all) games. Check out some FC3 screenshots I've taken, in my signature album.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BinaryDemon*
> 
> I'm building my current system looking towards 4k. I have 2x gtx970's coming shortly but I don't own a 4k monitor yet.
> 
> Ok here's my question- If I use 4k DSR will that give me a good approximation of what my performance would be like when gaming at 4k? Anyone doing benchmarks using 4k DSR?


Theoretically it should perform exactly the same as with a 4K monitor. That's because your GPUs will be rendering in 4K resolution either way.

Whenever I use downsampling my FPS take quite a large hit, so I would say yes.


----------



## John Shepard

Sounds great to me,now when are we gonna get GM200?


----------



## Pip Boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CherryWiggins*
> 
> I didn't see much of a difference with that video example..


dude, are you blind ? That sort of difference seen on a single frame at compressed youtube 1080p is fairly enormous. the overall definition is increased the stability of the frames objects in motion gives more depth/3d i.e game immersion

just wish it would be on Linux / SteamOS too but given the way that xserver handles things it probably wont be


----------



## Murlocke

I'm sorry but this is quite false advertisement. I've been downsampling like this for years, as have many people. Downsampling a resolution is a form of AA. It will greatly reduce jaggies. It will not make textures sharper or make 1080p appear like 4K. Not even close, it will still look like 1080p with a nice amount of SSAA applied. Even native 1440p would run far better and look far better than 4K downsampled to 1080p.

They should be advertising this as a form of AA, not a form of texture fidelity.


----------



## iSlayer

Still something nice for those of us without 4k/1440p with more power than is needed (IE older games).


----------



## Murlocke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iSlayer*
> 
> Still something nice for those of us without 4k/1440p with more power than is needed (IE older games).


I agree, it's a nice feature to have for those people. I hope it doesn't result in tons of 1080p users claiming "they are on 4K".


----------



## Swolern

Anyone that has enough GPU horsepower for 4k and still runs a 1080p monitor just hurts my head.
With that kind of horsepower at least get a 1440p @ 120hz monitor........


----------



## Mhill2029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> Anyone that has enough GPU horsepower for 4k and still runs a 1080p monitor just hurts my head.
> With that kind of horsepower at least get a 1440p @ 120hz monitor........


It's actually quite common....strangely. And it's baffling to me too.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> Anyone that has enough GPU horsepower for 4k and still runs a 1080p monitor just hurts my head.
> With that kind of horsepower at least get a 1440p @ 120hz monitor........


I run 1080p144hz, there are plenty of games that are basically not GPU demanding that i can run at 150+fps at 4k, like osu or league of legends - and there are plenty more games like Wildstar that FPS hangs around 40-50 in raids because of CPU limits, so GPU is sitting around with nothing to do at only 40fps on 1920x1080 without AA or any complex graphics


----------



## zantetheo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Murlocke*
> 
> I'm sorry but this is quite false advertisement. I've been downsampling like this for years, as have many people. Downsampling a resolution is a form of AA. It will greatly reduce jaggies. It will not make textures sharper or make 1080p appear like 4K. Not even close, it will still look like 1080p with a nice amount of SSAA applied. Even native 1440p would run far better and look far better than 4K downsampled to 1080p.
> 
> They should be advertising this as a form of AA, not a form of texture fidelity.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mhill2029*
> 
> It's actually quite common....strangely. And it's baffling to me too.


many spend their money for 1-2 last gen GPUs every time they are out because they have to and forget their 5 years old HD monitor

its called marketing i think


----------



## TheMentalist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TFL Replica*
> 
> It's a good solution in terms of performance, but it has its issues. DSR applies to the entire screen, so depending on the game, it can have adverse effects on things like text, the HUD, minimaps, etc. It's also harder to take screenshots, because regular screenshot utilities will just capture the source resolution, rather than the downsampled (and filtered) target resolution. GeDoSaTo is superior in this regard, because it's capable of capturing both.


We'll see the outcome of it in newer games. I really don't think down sampled 4K will be extraordinary, because the textures being used in games makes the difference. Not the other way around.
I think for this generation 1440p should shine, we have a good amount of horsepower now for that resolution.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> I really don't think down sampled 4K will be extraordinary, because the textures being used in games makes the difference. Not the other way around.


As far as i'm concerned, more texture detail etc is just a bonus. It's way too common for games to only support FXAA which blurs everything and doesn't fix temporal aliasing. I'm sick of looking at this:



Upscaled 2x on each axis.. those edges on everything and temporal aliasing seriously make any game look terrible. DSR or supersampling fixes that. Buying a 1440p monitor does not fix it, because PPI is basically the same.


----------



## TheMentalist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> As far as i'm concerned, more texture detail etc is just a bonus. It's way too common for games to only support FXAA which blurs everything and doesn't fix temporal aliasing. I'm sick of looking at this:
> 
> 
> 
> Upscaled 2x on each axis.. those edges on everything and temporal aliasing seriously make any game look terrible. DSR or supersampling fixes that. Buying a 1440p monitor does not fix it, because PPI is basically the same.


I actually meant that the 4K quality won't be huge(again, from what i've seen so far), any AA form will fix the jagging issue.

That 1440p part was apart.


----------



## Swolern

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> I run 1080p144hz, there are plenty of games that are basically not GPU demanding that i can run at 150+fps at 4k, like osu or league of legends - and there are plenty more games like Wildstar that FPS hangs around 40-50 in raids because of CPU limits, so GPU is sitting around with nothing to do at only 40fps on 1920x1080 without AA or any complex graphics


Ok ill take that. But also that is an exception, and not the majority.


----------



## Murlocke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheMentalist*
> 
> I actually meant that the 4K quality won't be huge(again, from what i've seen so far), any AA form will fix the jagging issue.
> 
> That 1440p part was apart.


Many titles nowadays don't support proper AA. That's where downscaling is incredibly powerful, especially on 1080p. On 1440p, FXAA isn't that bad, however on 1080p it's awful. It does almost nothing but blur the picture.

That's about the only case where I think this should be used. Otherwise, if the game supports MSAA or SSAA, usually the better option.


----------



## TheMentalist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Murlocke*
> 
> Many titles nowadays don't support proper AA. That's where downscaling is incredibly powerful, especially on 1080p. On 1440p, FXAA isn't that bad, however on 1080p it's awful. It does almost nothing but blur the picture.
> 
> That's about the only case where I think this should be used. Otherwise, if the game supports MSAA or SSAA, usually the better option.


True, but don't most games support MSAA or SSAA? MSAA is good(looks wise), that's my first choice.

My issue with DSR is, if it will be the most demanding form of sampling and the quality is not so great over MSAA/SSAA, is it worth using?


----------



## Daredevil 720

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheMentalist*
> 
> True, but don't most games support MSAA or SSAA? MSAA is good(looks wise), that's my first choice.
> 
> My issue with DSR is, if it will be the most demanding form of sampling and the quality is not so great over MSAA/SSAA, is it worth using?


DSR / Downsampling is basically SSAA.

Regarding MSAA, take a look at the following pictures:

1920x1080 Native 2xMSAA + FXAA (NVCP) Maxed Out Settings



3840x2160 Downsampled 2xMSAA + FXAA (NVCP) Maxed Out Settings



Both use 2xMSAA. No amount of MSAA alone can turn the former image to the latter. There's not just less jaggies, there's more detail in between edges.


----------



## TheMentalist

Aha, that explains it. It indeed is like SSAA.


----------



## Murlocke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheMentalist*
> 
> True, but don't most games support MSAA or SSAA? MSAA is good(looks wise), that's my first choice.
> 
> My issue with DSR is, if it will be the most demanding form of sampling and the quality is not so great over MSAA/SSAA, is it worth using?


Most games don't anymore. Even WoW recently removed MSAA in favor of FXAA/CMAA in the new expansion because it runs better. It looks awful in comparison and lots of people are pissed about it. This is PC, people should have the option to choose proper forms of AA in every game.

Downsampling from 4K to 1080p would be the visual equivalent of about 16x SSAA to my understanding. As we know, that's insane overkill and totally unnecessary. This method will likely be the best form of AA for 1080p users, but comes at an insane performance cost. I don't really see there being many people utilizing it. Now if this feature allows you to customize the native and target resolutions, 1080p to 1440p, 1440p to 4K, etc. It will be a much easier way of downsampling and a very handy tool for those "FXAA only" titles. However, I believe it's only 1080p to 4K.

Personally I feel like many developers are being lazy, and NVIDIA is trying to offset that. FXAA as the only AA method in a game shouldn't be a thing. If it was up to me, these "cheap" AA methods should of never been made. There was nothing wrong with AA, MSAA, or SSAA. SSAA does virtually the same thing as this with much more customization.

We are going backwards....


----------



## BinaryDemon

Great Comparison DareDevil 720, that sold it for me more than any of Nvidia's video's on it.


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## TheMentalist

There was nothing wrong with AA, MSAA, or SSAA. *SSAA does virtually the same thing as this with much more customization*.

This was what I was worried about. As in my previous post I really saw that DSR and SSAA are actually the same deal.


----------



## TFL Replica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Murlocke*
> 
> Most games don't anymore. Even WoW recently removed MSAA in favor of FXAA/CMAA in the new expansion because it runs better. It looks awful in comparison and lots of people are pissed about it. This is PC, people should have the option to choose proper forms of AA in every game.
> 
> Downsampling from 4K to 1080p would be the visual equivalent of about 16x SSAA to my understanding. As we know, that's insane overkill and totally unnecessary. This method will likely be the best form of AA for 1080p users, but comes at an insane performance cost. I don't really see there being many people utilizing it. *Now if this feature allows you to customize the native and target resolutions, 1080p to 1440p, 1440p to 4K, etc. It will be a much easier way of downsampling and a very handy tool for those "FXAA only" titles. However, I believe it's only 1080p to 4K.*
> 
> Personally I feel like many developers are being lazy, and NVIDIA is trying to offset that. FXAA as the only AA method in a game shouldn't be a thing. If it was up to me, these "cheap" AA methods should of never been made. There was nothing wrong with AA, MSAA, or SSAA. SSAA does virtually the same thing as this with much more customization.


DSR can be configured via the CP. The user can change the multiplier (from 1.2x all the way to 4.0x), and the strength of the Gaussian filter.


----------



## TheMentalist

Oh yeah look at this


----------



## Murlocke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BinaryDemon*
> 
> Great Comparison DareDevil 720, that sold it for me more than any of Nvidia's video's on it.


Keep in mind, while it is a large improvement in those screenshots you can get the same results with SSAA (If developers actually supported it more). You would also get the same results, with much better texture quality, using native 1440p and minor MSAA. It'd also cost a fraction of the GPU power to run.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TFL Replica*
> 
> DSR can be configured via the CP. The user can change the multiplier (from 1.2x all the way to 4.0x), and the strength of the Gaussian filter.


Interesting.. this makes it more appealing. I wonder if it will work with 1440p, or even 3440x1440 monitors then?


----------



## TheMentalist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Murlocke*
> 
> Keep in mind, while it is a large improvement in those screenshots you can get the same results with SSAA (If developers actually supported it more). You would also get the same results, with much better texture quality, using native 1440p and minor MSAA. It'd also cost a fraction of the GPU power to run.
> Interesting.. this makes it more appealing. I wonder if it will work with 1440p, or even 3440x1440 monitors then?


Is the native 1440p part true? cause i've been informed otherwise.


----------



## Murlocke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheMentalist*
> 
> Is the native 1440p part true? cause i've been informed otherwise.


It's much easier to reduce jaggies on higher PPI monitors. I recently went from 1080p to 3440x1440 and honestly it's not even close to the same amount of AA needed. 1080p requires a lot of downscaling and AA to achieve that bottom image, while 1440p doesn't require nearly as much.


----------



## Pip Boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Murlocke*
> 
> Personally I feel like many developers are being lazy, and NVIDIA is trying to offset that. FXAA as the only AA method in a game shouldn't be a thing. If it was up to me, these "cheap" AA methods should of never been made. There was nothing wrong with AA, MSAA, or SSAA. SSAA does virtually the same thing as this with much more customization.
> 
> We are going backwards....


its part that but mostly that newer engines cant properly handle MSAA due to their volumetric lighting techniques. The frostbite engine is one such example, thats why 4x msaa doesn't make that much of a difference like on older games where it effectively cleans everything up. They couldnt or were too lazy to include an SSAA button. The witcher2 did but then the performance tanks.

the idea of the nvidia DSR is that it is dynamic and should perform better than just pure downsampling or SSAA

did know one read the Guru3d Review on this with the 980 release

here:
Quote:


> *DSR - Dynamic Super Resolution
> 
> Taking the 4K experience and allowing you to visualize that on a 1080P monitor is what DSR is about. It renders the game at a higher resolution and shows it in a lower one, this brings more quality to that lower resolution.
> 
> In general DSR works like downsampling, but it has simple user on/off control. Textures will now be sampled at higher resolutions that equates to more pixels being sampled. Then a filter is applied (13 TAP Gaussian). This high quality filter reduces or eliminates AA artifact experiences with normal down-sampling, which relies on a simpler box filter. The new feature can be activated through GeForce Experience and drivers.
> 
> To recap, Dynamic Super Resolution works by rendering the game at a higher resolution, then scaling the image down to the native resolution of the user's display on output. For example, a gamer with a 1080p display could use Dynamic Super Resolution to have the GPU render an image that looks nearly like 4K resolution on their existing display. Dynamic Super Resolution uses a 13-tap Gaussian filter during the conversion to display resolution. This high-quality filter reduces or eliminates the aliasing artifacts experienced with downsampling, which relies on a simpler box filter. If you like to try it out, simply open the control panel and navigate to Manage 3D Settings -> DSR Factors to select your screen resolution (settings ranging from 1.2x-4.0x native resolution in the current implementation) and use the DSR Smoothness setting to adjust the Gaussian filter, then launch your game. You should be able to find the new DSR resolution inside the graphics menu settings of the newly launched game.*


its more efficient than the simple box filter a full screen pass of super sampling does. it will make 1080p gamers get a much nicer fidelity. people need to stop with the 4k willy waving , your all running crap ass TN panels tearing away at 30 or 60hz ... wooo .... next gen


----------



## TheMentalist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Murlocke*
> 
> It's much easier to reduce jaggies on higher PPI monitors. I recently went from 1080p to 3440x1440 and honestly it's not even close to the same amount of AA needed. 1080p requires a lot of downscaling and AA to achieve that bottom image, while 1440p doesn't require nearly as much.


So it indeed comes down that 1440p is the way to go right now.
I wasn't wrong


----------



## zalbard

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phill1978*
> 
> its part that but mostly that newer engines cant properly handle MSAA due to their volumetric lighting techniques


There is no such thing as volumetric lighting.

The problem is the use of deferred shading.


----------



## Darius510

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Swolern*
> 
> Anyone that has enough GPU horsepower for 4k and still runs a 1080p monitor just hurts my head.
> With that kind of horsepower at least get a 1440p @ 120hz monitor........


They don't sell 1440p HDTVs and Projectors, and the 4K TV/PJs are crazy expensive. So this is a killer feature for me....I just want to a more in depth comparison/overview compared to "normal" downsampling already, my cards dont get here until friday.


----------



## TheMentalist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darius510*
> 
> They don't sell 1440p HDTVs and Projectors, and the 4K TV/PJs are crazy expensive. So this is a killer feature for me....I just want to a more in depth comparison/overview compared to "normal" downsampling already, my cards dont get here until friday.


ASUS PG278Q FTW! lol


----------



## Pip Boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zalbard*
> 
> There is no such thing as volumetric lighting.
> 
> The problem is the use of deferred shading.


sorry my bad got my wires crossed i really thought there was









https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volumetric_lighting
Quote:


> Volumetric lighting is a technique used in 3D computer graphics to add lighting effects to a rendered scene. It allows the viewer to see beams of light shining through the environment; seeing sunbeams streaming through an open window is an example of volumetric lighting, also known as crepuscular rays. The term seems to have been introduced from cinematography and is now widely applied to 3D modelling and rendering especially in the field of 3D gaming


http://http.developer.nvidia.com/GPUGems3/gpugems3_ch13.html

but i bow to your superior German intelligence







(thats not sarcasm btw)


----------



## Murlocke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheMentalist*
> 
> So it indeed comes down that 1440p is the way to go right now.
> I wasn't wrong


Actually I just took some screenshots on 3440x1440... and I may be wrong here. I can barely tell the difference between 0x MSAA and 4x MSAA. 4x MSAA and 8x MSAA I can't spot any differences. However, it's still quite a bit worse than the downsampling from 4K image. If you truely want to get rid of absolutely all jaggies some form of SSAA or downsample is needed even on 1440p it seems. I imagine those 4K + 2x MSAA settings would be pulling less than 20FPS on my computer though. The difference between 0x and 8x is 89FPS to 33FPS.

0x MSAA


4x MSAA


8x MSAA


Ignore the weird UI scaling/blurring, that's just typical Ubisoft failing with 21:9 aspect ratio.


----------



## Darius510

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheMentalist*
> 
> ASUS PG278Q FTW! lol


27 inches? What is that, like the size of a postage stamp? pfft!

I kid...I do want one of them, just waiting for the price to come down. I'm still rocking a 24" 1080p as my monitor, a 60" plasma in the living room, and a 100" PJ screen in the theater. So yeah, there's no such thing as too much AA at 100"/1080p.

MSAA alone isn't good enough because it doesn't deal with the temporal aliasing on transparencies, shader effects and games that don't clamp the texture LOD properly.
Proper rotated grid SSAA would be nice, but few games support it.
Driver transparency AA has all sorts of compatibility issues.
SGSSAA looks nice and smooth but its a PITA to set up in nvidia inspector and has limited compatibility.
TXAA kills the jaggies like nothing else, but also kills texture clarity.
FXAA/SMAA looks nice in screenshots, but blurs textures and does nothing for temporal aliasing.
The old driver enabled custom resolution style downsampling was extremely limited.

Sure, this is a simple, brute force method of AA, but it solves every problem and should theoretically have universal compatibility, regardless of the in-game support. It'll be interesting to see how well it combines with post AA like FXAA, what effect that gaussian filter and upscaling ratios have, etc....but I can't even lie, I'm way more excited about DSR than just about anything else from the 9 series.


----------



## Darius510

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Murlocke*
> 
> Actually I just took some screenshots on 3440x1440... and I may be wrong here. I can barely tell the difference between 0x MSAA and 4x MSAA. 4x MSAA and 8x MSAA I can't spot any differences. However, it's still quite a bit worse than the downsampling from 4K image. If you truely want to get rid of absolutely all jaggies some form of SSAA or downsample is needed even on 1440p it seems. I imagine those 4K + 2x MSAA settings would be pulling less than 20FPS on my computer though. The difference between 0x and 8x is 89FPS to 33FPS.
> 
> 0x MSAA
> 
> 
> 4x MSAA
> 
> 
> 8x MSAA
> 
> 
> Ignore the weird UI scaling/blurring, that's just typical Ubisoft failing with 21:9 aspect ratio.


Stills can't capture the benefits of downsampling/SSAA when it comes to temporal artifacts.

I have a feeling a lot of people are going to end up dismissing DSR as some sort of gimmick based on a bunch of screenshots that can't properly show its benefits, just like they did with TXAA.


----------



## TheMentalist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Murlocke*
> 
> Actually I just took some screenshots on 3440x1440... and I may be wrong here. I can barely tell the difference between 0x MSAA and 4x MSAA. 4x MSAA and 8x MSAA I can't spot any differences. However, it's still quite a bit worse than the downsampling from 4K image. If you truely want to get rid of absolutely all jaggies some form of SSAA or downsample is needed even on 1440p it seems. I imagine those 4K + 2x MSAA settings would be pulling less than 20FPS on my computer though. The difference between 0x and 8x is 89FPS to 33FPS.
> 
> Ignore the weird UI scaling/blurring, that's just typical Ubisoft failing with 21:9 aspect ratio.


And the 1440p has a lower ppi


----------



## TheMentalist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darius510*
> 
> 27 inches? What is that, like the size of a postage stamp? pfft!
> 
> I kid...I do want one of them, just waiting for the price to come down. I'm still rocking a 24" 1080p as my monitor, a 60" plasma in the living room, and a 100" PJ screen in the theater. So yeah, there's no such thing as too much AA at 100"/1080p.


I'm also waiting for a price drop. Beast monitor, beast price. I can't afford a beast lol


----------



## djriful

I am going to run it at 1.5x because I have a 2560x1440, it would be low FPS if I push it at 2x on 2560x1440. It would be more than 4k.

Having DSR on, I think I might kill off FXAA, MSAA, TXAA.


----------



## Murlocke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darius510*
> 
> Stills can't capture the benefits of downsampling/SSAA when it comes to temporal artifacts.
> 
> I have a feeling a lot of people are going to end up dismissing DSR as some sort of gimmick based on a bunch of screenshots that can't properly show its benefits, just like they did with TXAA.


If it only supports 1080p then I would still go the 1440p route. There's no way I would pay for 3 top of the line GPUs to run 1080p with no jaggies, when I could be running 1440p with _almost_ no jaggies off a single card. 1440p just has so much more graphical fidelity than 1080p, and downsampling from even 8k won't change that.

You can also manually downsample 4K to 1440p, which will definitely look better and have the same performance cost. Here's hoping that this supports non-1080p resolutions though.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darius510*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Murlocke*
> 
> Actually I just took some screenshots on 3440x1440... and I may be wrong here. I can barely tell the difference between 0x MSAA and 4x MSAA. 4x MSAA and 8x MSAA I can't spot any differences. However, it's still quite a bit worse than the downsampling from 4K image. If you truely want to get rid of absolutely all jaggies some form of SSAA or downsample is needed even on 1440p it seems. I imagine those 4K + 2x MSAA settings would be pulling less than 20FPS on my computer though. The difference between 0x and 8x is 89FPS to 33FPS.
> 
> 0x MSAA
> 
> 
> 4x MSAA
> 
> 
> 8x MSAA
> 
> 
> Ignore the weird UI scaling/blurring, that's just typical Ubisoft failing with 21:9 aspect ratio.
> 
> 
> 
> Stills can't capture the benefits of downsampling/SSAA when it comes to temporal artifacts.
> 
> I have a feeling a lot of people are going to end up dismissing DSR as some sort of gimmick based on a bunch of screenshots that can't properly show its benefits, just like they did with TXAA.
Click to expand...

The benefits of TXAA and FXAA and DSR. Are for the motion of grass, foliage and etc. There are not meant for polygons edge since they can be done with MSAA / SMAA.

TXAA, FXAA, DSR aim to fix the stairs lines view from distance when you move around, grass lines, wires, wired fences.



*Want to see some good downsampling shots: http://deadendthrills.com/*


----------



## Darius510

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Murlocke*
> 
> If it only supports 1080p then I would still go the 1440p route. There's no way I would pay for 3 top of the line GPUs to run 1080p with no jaggies, when I could be running 1440p with _almost_ no jaggies off a single card. 1440p just has so much more graphical fidelity than 1080p, and downsampling from even 8k won't change that.
> 
> You can also manually downsample 4K to 1440p, which will definitely look better and have the same performance cost.


I don't see why you'd have to choose, I'm sure it can downsample from 2160p to 1440p just as well.

From the sounds of it, it supports up to 4X the resolution of whatever your native res is, I don't see anything about it that's 1080p exclusive.

Of course it's no replacement for real pixels, but the resolution of your panel is what it is. This just lets you get more quality out of the pixels you already have.


----------



## Murlocke

The official description of the feature is:
"Dynamic Super Resolution Technology Enables the details of 4K monitors on a 1080p display. DSR produces smoother images by rendering a game at a higher resolution, then downscaling it to the native resolution of the display using advanced filtering. "

I haven't found any reviewers that did it on a non-1080p display, and that description pretty clearly states it's for 1080p. I do hope you are right though, we should know soon. There's gotta be someone around here that bought a 970/980 and runs 1440p. Would also be nice to know if it works on 21:9 displays.


----------



## Darius510

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Murlocke*
> 
> The official description of the feature is:
> "Dynamic Super Resolution Technology Enables the details of 4K monitors on a 1080p display. DSR produces smoother images by rendering a game at a higher resolution, then downscaling it to the native resolution of the display using advanced filtering. "
> 
> I haven't found any reviewers that did it on a non-1080p display, and that description pretty clearly states it's for 1080p. I do hope you are right though, we should know soon. There's gotta be someone around here that bought a 970/980 and runs 1440p. Would also be nice to know if it works on 21:9 displays.


I dunno why else they'd describe it in the control panel as factors of your native res if it only supported 1080p. I really wouldn't worry about this one, it's just math, pixels are pixels. You could probably downscale 4K to 480p if you want.


----------



## TheMentalist

Because 1080p is mainstream now, that's why they wrote it like that. I think other resolutions will be supported.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Murlocke*
> 
> The official description of the feature is:
> "Dynamic Super Resolution Technology Enables the details of 4K monitors on a 1080p display. DSR produces smoother images by rendering a game at a higher resolution, then downscaling it to the native resolution of the display using advanced filtering. "
> 
> I haven't found any reviewers that did it on a non-1080p display, and that description pretty clearly states it's for 1080p. I do hope you are right though, we should know soon. There's gotta be someone around here that bought a 970/980 and runs 1440p. Would also be nice to know if it works on 21:9 displays.


Because 1080p is the standard and the most popular resolution by far even we have a lot of 1440p/1600p/4k around. Those 1440p+ are niche market. In local electronic stores, I see a lot of 1080p monitor and TV, only a few are 4k. Not everyone is able to afford those res in a monitor/tv alone.



http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheMentalist*
> 
> We'll see the outcome of it in newer games. I really don't think down sampled 4K will be extraordinary, because the *textures being used in games makes the difference. Not the other way around.*
> I think for this generation 1440p should shine, we have a good amount of horsepower now for that resolution.


Triangles smaller than a pixel is a serious problem in current graphics. Tesselation engines stall and thus the only other option of geometry sampling next to higher density resolution sampling to represent textures better in the final frame is lost. You can only concentrate so many polygons in an area until the colour space precision depth fail to interpolate the corresponding texels' exact color average in the final image. 6-8bit monitors and slow G2G really cause much of my headache in this regard.
Hence, I regard pre-32bit isometric games more highly in this aspect than the current "color fillrate bottlenecked" games that start crushing true colors and image fidelity, if you don't render the game at the actual resolution that the developer generated the textures at.


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Murlocke*
> 
> *Downsampling from 4K to 1080p would be the visual equivalent of about* 16x *SSAA* to my understanding.


I presume that should be 4x SSAA - two folds in each axis from 1920x1080p to 3840x2160p.
Supersampling is the "only" sampling method that samples more "color" data, so the only solution to the fillrate bottleneck. Until the last round of hardware Nvidia had a 5 to 1 texture to color bottleneck due to tmu/rop counts and AMD had 3 to 1.


----------



## Atomagenesis

Before and after look identical to me, I can barely tell any difference.


----------



## Darius510

http://dl.pcgamer.com/darksouls2/tweak/aa_compare2.gif

It's SGSSAA, so not exactly the same as what you'd get with DSR....but DSR should look even better.


----------



## dieanotherday

things like these should be industry standards and should be an option right next to antialiasing.


----------



## Hl86

Somehow DSR option disappears when using sli.


----------



## Pip Boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hl86*
> 
> Somehow DSR option disappears when using sli.


file bug report ?


----------



## StrongForce

So if it works like BF4 it's also uber GPU horsepower hungry right ? or maybe it's better optimized..


----------



## tsm106

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> So if it works like BF4 it's also uber GPU horsepower hungry right ? or maybe it's better optimized..


Nvidia is using delta color compression in a serious way, so it's not as power hungry.


----------



## StrongForce

That sound's good then !


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> Nvidia is using delta color compression in a serious way, so it's not as power hungry.


One review pointed out that DSR would present more conformities in the image with a resultant higher delta colour compression ratio.


----------



## zantetheo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tsm106*
> 
> Nvidia is using delta color compression in a serious way, so it's not as power hungry.


I wish it will be better than using higher resolution scale on BF4. That would be great


----------



## TheMentalist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zantetheo*
> 
> I wish it will be better than using higher resolution scale on BF4. That would be great


Tell you the truth, I was happy that they even gave you the option in BF4


----------



## zantetheo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheMentalist*
> 
> Tell you the truth, I was happy that they even gave you the option in BF4


Yes after i started using the resolution scale at 150% with a mix of ultra-high-medium (no AA) settings never went back to ultra settings


----------



## TheMentalist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zantetheo*
> 
> Yes after i started using the resolution scale at 150% with a mix of ultra-high-medium (no AA) settings never went back to ultra settings


Yeah it's demanding, but still applied some AA to it, extra smooth.


----------



## Nightingale

I was under the impression that DSR was only available on the 900 series for the time being, until a future driver update which will make it available on the 4-9 series of cards?


----------



## TheMentalist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nightingale*
> 
> I was under the impression that DSR was only available on the 900 series for the time being, until a future driver update which will make it available on the 4-9 series of cards?


Yes it will. That's a good thing by nVidia.


----------



## Nightingale

Interesting enough, Nvidia still refuses to add back a few lines of code to enable negative LOD clamp.


----------



## TheMentalist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nightingale*
> 
> Interesting enough, Nvidia still refuses to add back a few lines of code to enable negative LOD clamp.


Not sure, but doesn't it work with OpenGL?


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Murlocke*
> 
> Downsampling from 4K to 1080p would be the visual equivalent of about 16x SSAA to my understanding. As we know, that's insane overkill and totally unnecessary. This method will likely be the best form of AA for 1080p users, but comes at an insane performance cost. I don't really see there being many people utilizing it. Now if this feature allows you to customize the native and target resolutions, 1080p to 1440p, 1440p to 4K, etc. It will be a much easier way of downsampling and a very handy tool for those "FXAA only" titles. However, I believe it's only 1080p to 4K.
> 
> Personally I feel like many developers are being lazy, and NVIDIA is trying to offset that. FXAA as the only AA method in a game shouldn't be a thing. If it was up to me, these "cheap" AA methods should of never been made. There was nothing wrong with AA, MSAA, or SSAA. SSAA does virtually the same thing as this with much more customization.
> 
> We are going backwards....


I agree 100%, but same with developers not using multiple CPU cores properly etc - nothing we can do about it. We have to find solutions, because we can't fix the problems and whining about them won't change anything short term.
Quote:


> Downsampling from 4K to 1080p would be the visual equivalent of about 16x SSAA to my understanding.


It's actually 4x SSAA, afaik

DSR -does- support other resolutions, i think they said you can scale all the way from ~1.2x to ~4x, and also adjust the filter used. It should actually be better than SSAA in some cases


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nightingale*
> 
> I was under the impression that DSR was only available on the 900 series for the time being, until a future driver update which will make it available on the 4-9 series of cards?


If the GPU can render 4k at good FPS...


----------



## Murlocke

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> It's actually 4x SSAA, afaik
> 
> DSR -does- support other resolutions, i think they said you can scale all the way from ~1.2x to ~4x, and also adjust the filter used. It should actually be better than SSAA in some cases


Yeah I was a bit confused, you are right. It's 4x. That explains why 2x vs 4x SSAA is about the difference of 80FPS and 30FPS in many games.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

In BF4 Resolution scaling makes a huge difference for me. With 2 x 290X @ 1200/1500 i get full GPU usage running 1440p Ultra + 150% which is basically rendering @ 4K. This gets me about 70-90 fps. 125% which is 3K or 1800p gets me well over 100 fps but GPU usage drops. I can do this with DX11 but not with Mantle because of memory Requirements. AMD is also working on similar feature them self so you can render games in 4K. Personally i cant go back to playing BF4 @ 1440p. The difference is huge. I hate FXAA and MSAA in 1440p. Much rather have no AA then use those. Its either go big or go home for me when it comes to AA. Can't wait to get 4K monitor so i dont have to use AA at all.


----------



## Nightingale

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheMentalist*
> 
> Not sure, but doesn't it work with OpenGL?


Not sure, but DX games it no longer works, even though in the Nvidia CP it's listed there. You can change the values but it will have no effect as Nvidia removed the few lines of code that allow it to function. AS you know Negative LOD is essential for SGSSAA. There is a petition on the Nvidia forums for them to bring this back. It just does not make any rational sense why they would remove this, let alone refuse to openly address and explain this issue and why it remains removed . See we know it can be added back, since one member on the forums at Nvidia created a "Nvidia Display Driver Patcher" in order to add the code back.


----------



## TheMentalist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nightingale*
> 
> Not sure, but DX games it no longer works, even though in the Nvidia CP it's listed there. You can change the values but it will have no effect as Nvidia removed the few lines of code that allow it to function. AS you know Negative LOD is essential for SGSSAA. There is a petition on the Nvidia forums for them to bring this back. It just does not make any rational sense why they would remove this, let alone refuse to openly address and explain this issue and why it remains removed . See we know it can be added back, since one member on the forums at Nvidia created a "Nvidia Display Driver Patcher" in order to add the code back.


Yeah I think I saw that. Looks like they're trying to get rid of it for good.
I don't need it, but I guess others find it useful, especially SGSSAA.


----------



## Clockdisaster

i saw the prices of 9xx cards. Really loved it. 330$ and 550$, very powerful, yet cheap. Will save money for 980 and a 4k monitor or tv.


----------



## jmcosta

Spoiler: 2x DSR


----------



## Pip Boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jmcosta*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: 2x DSR


Cool. That really is a big difference on textures for free.

Suppose if your 1080p monitor is at a certain distance or of a certain size and you don't see the pixels or lack of definition this could really work very well. Of course id want to see a 4k monitor running 8k DSR









people shouldnt get too hung up about pixel count, PPI counts but its all relative. Taking a 1080p Pixar CGI image thats been through many passes of AA and displaying at 1080p will look better than one that hasnt but shown at 1440p. Im not arguing for less pixels, just that image fidelity is just as important as image clarity.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

The difference is so minute for me that I don't think I would ever use this. This is also staring at a screenshot. In motion, I would only imagine it being harder to tell. I tried it with Metro LL and BF4 and I couldn't tell a difference. Wasn't DSR, but the same concept. IDownsampling is also so resource heavy that I don't think it justifies it. Unless you're hitting frames well above your refresh rate, sure.

Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## Darius510

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> The difference is so minute for me that I don't think I would ever use this. This is also staring at a screenshot. In motion, I would only imagine it being harder to tell. I tried it with Metro LL and BF4 and I couldn't tell a difference. Wasn't DSR, but the same concept. IDownsampling is also so resource heavy that I don't think it justifies it. Unless you're hitting frames well above your refresh rate, sure.
> 
> Different strokes for different folks.


You have it backwards. In motion, it's much easier to tell.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darius510*
> 
> You have it backwards. In motion, it's much easier to tell.


I for one couldn't tell. Again, maybe it's just me but I couldn't tell the difference. I have 20/20 btw... just putting that out there ahahaha


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darius510*
> 
> You have it backwards. In motion, it's much easier to tell.


In motion AA is less noticeable.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> In motion AA is less noticeable.


Motion is where Temporal Aliasing happens, which is one of the worst forms of aliasing. It happens across a wide variety of scene objects and it's extremely eye catching. For one example, here - 



 - view in 1080p and fullscreen it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> I for one couldn't tell. Again, maybe it's just me but I couldn't tell the difference. I have 20/20 btw... just putting that out there ahahaha


Those eye standards just deal with how far away you can focus on things, also 20/20 is considered normal vision


----------



## Slaughtahouse

I know, I know. Just wanted to make that clear before the comments roll out "what?! Are you blind?"

Never knew about Temporal Aliasing either. I mean, I definitely notice that in games but I didn't know it was defined as something.


----------



## Cyro999

Yea that's the main problem i have with many games. FXAA doesn't fix it, and especially with some art styles it just looks awful. Even if FXAA did fix it, it would be a compromise - sampling from a higher resolution immediately and obviously improves it, if you're sampling from like 4k to 1080p it's basically nonexistant.. and you can afford to do that on a ton of games.

Playing sc2 on maximum visibility for example, if a gtx260 can do like 150fps, you have no shortage of power with a 970. More recently i've mostly been bothered by it in Wildstar, which my 770 allows me to run at like 150fps, but it's often at 1/3 of that in combat with large numbers of players like a raid environment, with GPU sat waiting for cpu


----------



## Darius510

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> I know, I know. Just wanted to make that clear before the comments roll out "what?! Are you blind?"
> 
> Never knew about Temporal Aliasing either. I mean, I definitely notice that in games but I didn't know it was defined as something.


Well, DSR goes a long way towards fixing that. Trust me, you'll notice.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Yea, again I have no problem with that. In my first comment, I said I would do this if my FPS were well above my refresh rate. I'd probably do this for a game like Killing Floor which I play often but it's not a priority for me.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Yea that's the main problem i have with many games. FXAA doesn't fix it, and especially with some art styles it just looks awful. Even if FXAA did fix it, it would be a compromise - sampling from a higher resolution immediately and obviously improves it, if you're sampling from like 4k to 1080p it's basically nonexistant.. and you can afford to do that on a ton of games.
> 
> Playing sc2 on maximum visibility for example, if a gtx260 can do like 150fps, you have no shortage of power with a 970. More recently i've mostly been bothered by it in Wildstar, which my 770 allows me to run at like 150fps, but it's often at 1/3 of that in combat with large numbers of players like a raid environment, with GPU sat waiting for cpu


Yeah. SSAA is best form of AA and not that hard to run for older games or less demanding games. I want to see how much difference in makes in Dota 2.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Yeah. SSAA is best form of AA and not that hard to run for older games or less demanding games. I want to see how much difference in makes in Dota 2.


The best part of it is that it's not really an antialiasing method, it just happens to fix aliasing as one of the effects


----------



## zalbard

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> The best part of it is that it's not really an antialiasing method, it just happens to fix aliasing as one of the effects


It is. In fact, supersampling is probably the oldest anti-aliasing method ever.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> The best part of it is that it's not really an antialiasing method, it just happens to fix aliasing as one of the effects


It is AA if you thing about it. MSAA only does the edges. SSAA does the complete image.


----------



## Pip Boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> Yea, again I have no problem with that. In my first comment, I said I would do this if my FPS were well above my refresh rate. I'd probably do this for a game like Killing Floor which I play often but it's not a priority for me.


i used to run UT3 black editon with 24X supersampling and it went from a crinkly jaggy mess ( not just the edges but the textures too!) to looking like some polished CGI









super sampling really is super. If DSR offers a faster version thats great but not everyone has access to AA on every title and sometimes (many times to be fair) forcing supersampling doesn't work. With DSR no game can ignore it so this means once DSR is enabled all games ever made effectively get super sampling support whether they like it or not


----------



## Falknir

I cannot wait to get DSR support for my GTX TITAN so I can finally look at Star Citizen without it being an aliased mess that it is at the moment.


----------



## EVGA-JacobF




----------



## Deletive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EVGA-JacobF*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -snip-


Will this like come to a 750ti? for the desktop??? DD


----------



## SirWaWa

I wish consoles could do this


----------



## Arturo.Zise

Played with DSR last night in a few older games. They really come to life at 3840x2160 with 8xAA. Tony Hawk Pro Skater HD and Alice The Madness Returns looked slick as in 4k. Skyrim looked lovely but was using 3.5gb VRAM and I only have the basic HD texture pack installed lol.


----------



## Sannakji

Wonder if 770's will get this. Understandable if they don't go, but would be nice. It's cool that nVidia makes these free goodies for its users; it really doesn't need to to remain competitive.


----------



## Nightingale

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sannakji*
> 
> Wonder if 770's will get this. Understandable if they don't go, but would be nice. It's cool that nVidia makes these free goodies for its users; it really doesn't need to to remain competitive.


What, How is that understandable? It's a simple software feature for the driver that can work on all nvidia cards from fermi and up. For them not to implement it would be a dick move. Besides they already said in a future driver update dsr will work on the older cards.


----------



## Sannakji

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nightingale*
> 
> What, How is that understandable? It's a simple software feature for the driver that can work on all nvidia cards from fermi and up. For them not to implement it would be a dick move. Besides they already said in a future driver update dsr will work on the older cards.


Is it not resource intensive? Sounds like it. I keep forgetting there was no 8 series, so yeah it'll probably appear. Shadowplay is available on as many chipsets as possible after all. Cool!


----------



## NavDigitalStorm

Does this mean I can make my 4K monitor display 8K? MADNESS!


----------



## Mahasin Raihan

So.. This is basically just some form of AA or..


----------



## Hattifnatten

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mahasin Raihan*
> 
> So.. This is basically just some form of AA or..


Super-sampling/downscaling, which has been available for us for a long time, but now in a more streamlined package.


----------



## Pip Boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NavDigitalStorm*
> 
> Does this mean I can make my 4K monitor display 8K? MADNESS!


Some said no. But until i see someone with a 4k monitor saying no, il assume yes.. as shown in the pictures above @ 5120 x 2880







, what i find much cooler than pure super sampling is that is seems from what Arturo.zise just said is that Anti Aliasing is still possible on top of DSR! where as with pure supersampling you don't (obviously as it is AA) so that means you can effectively run 8x AA .. but the question is, is the MSAA getting applied after the DSR or before ? if its after then that edge resolution is 117mpixel resolution, so i assume its before otherwise thats madness.

just wondering of course its not needed but could someone try forcing 24x supersampling AND DSR to see if it works together i.e Double Supersampling making it about 48X AA


----------



## TFL Replica

Supersampling has a multitude of available sampling patterns. This is comparable to supersampling with the most common/basic sampling pattern: ordered grid (OGSSAA). It's neither the most effective nor the fastest method, but it works with the majority of games, and it's reliable. The configurable Gaussian filter adds a touch of magic to the final result. Without it, this would just be "downsampling for dummies".

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phill1978*
> 
> Some said no. But until i see someone with a 4k monitor saying no, il assume yes.. as shown in the pictures above @ 5120 x 2880
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , what i find much cooler than pure super sampling is that is seems from what Arturo.zise just said is that Anti Aliasing is still possible on top of DSR! where as with pure supersampling you don't (obviously as it is AA) so that means you can effectively run 8x AA .. but the question is, is the MSAA getting applied after the DSR or before ? if its after then that edge resolution is 117mpixel resolution, so i assume its before otherwise thats madness.
> 
> just wondering of course its not needed but could someone try forcing 24x supersampling AND DSR to see if it works together i.e Double Supersampling making it about 48X AA


If I had to take a guess, I'd say MSAA applies before DSR.


----------



## Difunto

for now i can run the first 2
for the other one i get really low fps like 10 and the last one doesn't even run the pc just freezes,probably running at 1 fps haha


----------



## Darius510

Yeah, it should just downsample whatever you render at the higher resolution. I bet using FXAA in combination with it would produce some nice results as well.


----------



## HiTechPixel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darius510*
> 
> Yeah, it should just downsample whatever you render at the higher resolution. I bet using FXAA in combination with it would produce some nice results as well.


Indeed, purists will argue that FXAA is horrible but when you downsample from 4K and up, FXAA becomes a very good alternative.


----------



## Arturo.Zise

The Nvidia control panel lets you turn on FXAA, lets you enhance the application settings or override the application settings with 8x MSAA or 8x SSAA and set the DSR resolution up to 4x the native resolution (3840x2160 on my 1080p screen). Not sure what order all of this is applied but in the games I tried I had this all active in the control panel and set the in game MSAA/SSAA as high as it would go.


----------



## Seid Dark

This is great news, I hate temporal aliasing to the point that I avoid playing certain games. FXAA only makes the problem worse. SSAA compatibility is a problem with many games, this should be much easier to use. Hopefully DSR driver for Kepler cards isn't far away.


----------



## Pip Boy

so if you have a 144hz 1440p monitor or 120/144 1080p monitor can you effectively keep the same refresh with DSR ?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Difunto*
> 
> for now i can run the first 2
> for the other one i get really low fps like 10 and the last one doesn't even run the pc just freezes,probably running at 1 fps haha


that's 19.8 million pixels, twice that of 4k but half of 8k


----------



## iSlayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EVGA-JacobF*


Jacob you tease.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sannakji*
> 
> Wonder if 770's will get this. Understandable if they don't go, but would be nice. It's cool that nVidia makes these free goodies for its users; it really doesn't need to to remain competitive.


We should get it. Will be very snazzy.


----------



## zantetheo

from a person who actually tested DSR from Guru3d forums:

_I tried plenty of games last night with DSR, although not all games add the higher resolutions so I'm not sure how that works; whether it is a limitation of the game/engine or whether it's set by the driver. Anyway, of those I tried most worked brilliantly and once I adjusted the text size for Afterburner's OSD so I could read it then it all felt pretty seamless.

I tried Fable Anniversary at 3840x2400, which worked superbly as it held 60 FPS throughout my testing, The Cave at 3840x2400, which unfortunately felt laggy and was running below 60 FPS, and Dream at 3200x1800, which crashed but I believe that was due to having forced AA but nevertheless that looked really good as by default it has no AA support. There were still some noticeable aliasing but it was less in-yer-face if you know what I mean. It also felt like it was running at 60 FPS (I'd forgotten to rescale Afterburner's OSD for that one).

Pretty impressive stuff but downsampling is kind of an extreme AA solution really, being extra demanding (at 4.00x it is effectively rendering the game four times!) and only really effective when used in conjunction with post-process AA. Still, as an option for games with no AA at all that don't support AA flags then I'd rather use this than have to mess around adding FXAA Injectors or SweetFX, which also blur text and HUD elements, as the option requires little more than selecting a higher resolution.

Too points to note:

1. Not all games resize their HUD and text at 4K so it can be very hard to read subtitles and such in those; and

2. When taking screenshots, the image is at the resolution you are super-sampling to (e.g 3840x2400) and not the downsampled one at the native res of your display (e.g. 1920x1200). In other words, it will show all the aliasing, etc., that you were downsampling to avoid in the first place!

It's a shame that we cannot take screenshots of the downsampled image, i.e. in Fable Anniversary, I would like 1920x1200 grabs of my 3840x2400 DSR'd game but that is not possible. You could resize them yourself in an art package I suppose but that adds extra inconvenient that I'd prefer not to have._

http://forums.guru3d.com/showpost.php?p=4919911&postcount=40


----------



## Artistar

The question I'm thinking is (if it's worth it), can you use FX injectors , instead of using real AA?

Would this present an advantage in the speed of the programme/game?


----------



## Darius510

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artistar*
> 
> The question I'm thinking is (if it's worth it), can you use FX injectors , instead of using real AA?
> 
> Would this present an advantage in the speed of the programme/game?


You mean in conjunction with DSR?


----------



## Artistar

I'd guess so.


----------



## Darius510

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artistar*
> 
> I'd guess so.


In that case I'd just use the built in FXAA in the nvidia control panel. The result will probably be a bit softer than using MSAA, but it should perform better.


----------



## Artistar

I just wondered wether it would be less labour intensive for the GPU.


----------



## LinkDrive

One thing I've been really curious about in regards to DSR is does DSR work with the classic method of downsampling (creating custom resolutions)?

AFAIK, DSR only goes up to 4x4, and pair that off with a custom resolution of say 3840x2160 on a 1080p native screen, will NVCP let you hit a maximum resolution of 15360x8640?


----------



## Darius510

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LinkDrive*
> 
> One thing I've been really curious about in regards to DSR is does DSR work with the classic method of downsampling (creating custom resolutions)?
> 
> AFAIK, DSR only goes up to 4x4, and pair that off with a custom resolution of say 3840x2160 on a 1080p native screen, will NVCP let you hit a maximum resolution of 15360x8640?


DSR is a replacement for the classic downsampling....it just makes it a lot easier and higher quality.


----------



## LinkDrive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darius510*
> 
> DSR is a replacement for the classic downsampling....it just makes it a lot easier and higher quality.


Yeah, I know that DSR is designed as an ease of access method of downsampling. Surely Nvidia did not remove the ability to create custom resolutions. When setting up DSR, DSR enabled resolutions are shown in a DSR category as opposed to standard display resolutions. That raises a number of question. First and foremost, can DSR be combined with a custom resolution of 4K on a 1080p screen, or is it still limited to double the native resolution regardless if a custom resolution is created or not? Also, does DSR alleviate the issue of HDTVs losing their sound and post processing capabilities caused by custom downsampled resolutions above 1440p?


----------



## Darius510

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LinkDrive*
> 
> Yeah, I know that DSR is designed as an ease of access method of downsampling. Surely Nvidia did not remove the ability to create custom resolutions. When setting up DSR, DSR enabled resolutions are shown in a DSR category as opposed to standard display resolutions. That raises a number of question. First and foremost, can DSR be combined with a custom resolution of 4K on a 1080p screen, or is it still limited to double the native resolution regardless if a custom resolution is created or not? Also, does DSR alleviate the issue of HDTVs losing their sound and post processing capabilities caused by custom downsampled resolutions above 1440p?


I don't see how you can combine DSR and custom resolutions, because DSR functions by creating custom resolutions.


----------



## LinkDrive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darius510*
> 
> I don't see how you can combine DSR and custom resolutions, because DSR functions by creating custom resolutions.


GeDoSaTo also functions in a manner where you essentially create custom resolutions, but it can be used in conjunction with NVCP custom resolutions.

In the end, it depends on what step in the rendering process DSR creates said custom resolutions. If DSR functions like OGSSAA or GeDoSaTo, then it should be capable of being combined with custom resolutions. More importantly, if it does function like OGSSAA or GeDoSaTo, then any issue encountered with custom resolutions should not be encountered with DSR. However, if it functions more like the custom resolution tool in NVCP, then it might very well be a deal breaker for HDTV users.


----------



## FlighterPilot

Anyone have comparisons of this vs SGSSAA?


----------



## JakdMan

I'll have to see this to judge. Personally I still think it sounds like a silly feature.........

No just, no. Proper AA and better rendering should be the goal I'd think rather than something people had been doing for a while (as though they discovered something new, silly nvidia)

Bleh we'll see. At least these cards are capable (it would appear if rendering at 4k+ is supposed to be happening all the time now)


----------



## djriful

Did I missed something, is DSR now available to most GPU now? Or it is still GTX 900 series only?


----------



## LinkDrive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JakdMan*
> 
> No just, no. Proper AA and better rendering should be the goal I'd think rather than something people had been doing for a while (as though they discovered something new, silly nvidia)


DSR is not something that's being advertised as an AA solution. It's something that's being advertised of pushing a higher rendering resolution, which has existed in games since at least 2009. As others have already said in this thread, DSR can be used in combination of both prepass and post process AA, which further backs that DSR is not a method of AA.

If you've done any form of downsampling then you should know that DSR is not a silly feature. Not only does it function in a similar manner as SSAA, but it also enables post processing effects to be rendered with more accuracy due to the game running at a higher display resolution, which is something that SSAA does not do. Also, MSAA and SSAA is bandwidth intensive due to having to rely on analyzing the incomplete 3d scene in grids, while downsampling is less bandwidth intensive and does not rely on analyzing the scene in grids. This makes downsampling the much preferred choice of reducing aliasing and temporal aliasing, especially with games that utilize deferred shading and has little to no prepass AA support.


----------



## LinkDrive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> Did I missed something, is DSR now available to most GPU now? Or it is still GTX 900 series only?


It's currently only available to the GTX 900 series lineup. There probably won't be any DSR support for previous generations of video cards for about a month at least.


----------



## JakdMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LinkDrive*
> 
> DSR is not something that's being advertised as an AA solution. It's something that's being advertised of pushing a higher rendering resolution, which has existed in games since at least 2009. As others have already said in this thread, DSR can be used in combination of both prepass and post process AA, which further backs that DSR is not a method of AA.
> 
> If you've done any form of downsampling then you should know that DSR is not a silly feature. Not only does it function in a similar manner as SSAA, but it also enables post processing effects to be rendered with more accuracy due to the game running at a higher display resolution, which is something that SSAA does not do. Also, MSAA and SSAA is bandwidth intensive due to having to rely on analyzing the incomplete 3d scene in grids, while downsampling is less bandwidth intensive and does not rely on analyzing the scene in grids. This makes downsampling the much preferred choice of reducing aliasing and temporal aliasing, especially with games that utilize deferred shading and has little to no prepass AA support.


I know that. I meant it as in they/devs should be focusing on delivering higher quality pixels rather than downsampling (which I still think is a cheap trick albeit effective in certain places)


----------



## ZeusHavok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JakdMan*
> 
> I'll have to see this to judge. Personally I still think it sounds like a silly feature.........
> 
> No just, no. Proper AA and better rendering should be the goal I'd think rather than something people had been doing for a while (as though they discovered something new, silly nvidia)
> 
> Bleh we'll see. At least these cards are capable (it would appear if rendering at 4k+ is supposed to be happening all the time now)


It really does increase image quality a massive amount. There is nothing silly about it, it makes games look amazing. My only issue is that with a 1440p monitor if i try 4k it has a lot of aliasing for some reason.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JakdMan*
> 
> I know that. I meant it as in they/devs should be focusing on delivering higher quality pixels rather than downsampling (which I still think is a cheap trick albeit effective in certain places)


Try it before you knock it to be honest.


----------



## Arnotts

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZeusHavok*
> 
> It really does increase image quality a massive amount. There is nothing silly about it, it makes games look amazing. My only issue is that with a 1440p monitor if i try 4k it has a lot of aliasing for some reason.
> Try it before you knock it to be honest.


Try comparing it to GeDoSaTo.

GeDoSaTo works amazingly with my 1440p monitor, downsampling from 3840x2160.


----------



## dieanotherday

wait hold on, if we do DSR and say I put 5k on my 30', would it look like a 30' 5k monitor scaling wise?

I would like that extra real estate if possible.


----------



## error-id10t

Has someone compared this to say what you get in BF4 when you change it to 200%? Is this similar performance or better?


----------



## JakdMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZeusHavok*
> 
> It really does increase image quality a massive amount. There is nothing silly about it, it makes games look amazing. My only issue is that with a 1440p monitor if i try 4k it has a lot of aliasing for some reason.
> Try it before you knock it to be honest.


I will. In principle though it still seems off


----------



## Clockdisaster

Damn, got my sony ps3 full hd monitor. Need new graphics card that supports this kind of technology. Gaming will be even more awesome.


----------



## The Source

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JakdMan*
> 
> I will. In principle though it still seems off


I'm afraid that the long awaited anti aliasing solution we've all been waiting for is resolution increases. Wether you want to hear that or not.

If anything, your uneducated opinion seems off...


----------



## s1rrah

I've messed around with the DSR feature quite a bit ...

I've been experimenting with it via 2x GTX980's running around 1450mhz core overclock ...

It works VERY well, but for me, I just prefer the higher frame rates of 1440p native over the admittedly even more expansive view and slightly nicer edges. I was playing Metro Last Light and a HUGELY textured modded Skyrim at a ridiculous 5120x2880 res on my 1440p monitor and it was pretty much unplayable (20/25 fps I think) ... but it looked pretty silly good. That was the "x4" DSR resolution according to Nvidia's setup and I forget what the x2 was ... but the x2 was certainly playable on the 1440p monitor

I also have a 120hz 1080p monitor and 3840x2160 was MUCH more reasonable and completely playable at around 40/45fps ... and it also looked pretty damn good. Better than my typical "downsampling" tests for sure and WAY easier to set up.

But in the end, I still prefer the nearly doubled frame rates of playing native 1440p and/or 1080p ...

Super cool feature, though. Fun to play with ... two years from now those resolutions will be 100+ fps too. LOL.

Oh yeah ... 4K for desktop use is just stupid if you ask me. Everything is WAY to small.


----------



## Bluemustang

So some people have this working in SLI? I read that it was confirmed that DSR isnt working with SLI? If so when is that expected to be resolved? Silly when thats when its most useful with all that power.

Also i thought this would work on any game? Like the large point is for older games that dont use much power to be able to make them look good? I think i even heard that said during game 24. Well I play an old DX7 game called Anarchy Online and it doesnt find that game. I cant even manually select it, the .exe doesnt show up. Any idea?


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s1rrah*
> 
> I've messed around with the DSR feature quite a bit ...
> 
> I've been experimenting with it via 2x GTX980's running around 1450mhz core overclock ...
> 
> It works VERY well, but for me, I just prefer the higher frame rates of 1440p native over the admittedly even more expansive view and slightly nicer edges. I was playing Metro Last Light and a HUGELY textured modded Skyrim at a ridiculous 5120x2880 res on my 1440p monitor and it was pretty much unplayable (20/25 fps I think) ... but it looked pretty silly good. That was the "x4" DSR resolution according to Nvidia's setup and I forget what the x2 was ... but the x2 was certainly playable on the 1440p monitor
> 
> I also have a 120hz 1080p monitor and 3840x2160 was MUCH more reasonable and completely playable at around 40/45fps ... and it also looked pretty damn good. Better than my typical "downsampling" tests for sure and WAY easier to set up.
> 
> But in the end, I still prefer the nearly doubled frame rates of playing native 1440p and/or 1080p ...
> 
> Super cool feature, though. Fun to play with ... two years from now those resolutions will be 100+ fps too. LOL.
> 
> *Oh yeah ... 4K for desktop use is just stupid if you ask me. Everything is WAY to small.*


If I have 4k monitor, I would scale the UI 2x just like how Apple does it on their MacBook Retina Display. Not 1:1 but 2:1 scaling. It means all the app need their .ico file to support 128x128+


----------



## Darius510

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bluemustang*
> 
> So some people have this working in SLI? I read that it was confirmed that DSR isnt working with SLI? If so when is that expected to be resolved? Silly when thats when its most useful with all that power.
> 
> Also i thought this would work on any game? Like the large point is for older games that dont use much power to be able to make them look good? I think i even heard that said during game 24. Well I play an old DX7 game called Anarchy Online and it doesnt find that game. I cant even manually select it, the .exe doesnt show up. Any idea?


Yes, some people do. Seems like a driver bug:

http://forums.evga.com/DSR-wit-SLI-GTX-970-or-GTX-980-m2219858.aspx


----------



## Bluemustang

Ok, what about my old game not showing up? I dont even mean the DSR not showing up i mean i cant select the games exe at all.


----------



## The Source

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bluemustang*
> 
> Ok, what about my old game not showing up? I dont even mean the DSR not showing up i mean i cant select the games exe at all.


It may very well only support dx9 games. Anything older than dx9 is pretty old. From the looks of things, this is still early in development and has some issues to iron out and support to expand. I would try traditional downsampling in those games.


----------



## GTR Mclaren

So...basically the same you can do on BF4 ??


----------



## Darius510

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Source*
> 
> It may very well only support dx9 games. Anything older than dx9 is pretty old. From the looks of things, this is still early in development and has some issues to iron out and support to expand. I would try traditional downsampling in those games.


Can't be, I've seen it running on bioshock infinite and AC IV. Anyway, about to fire my SLI cards up now...so if there's anything specific you guys want to know, fire away.


----------



## The Source

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darius510*
> 
> Can't be, I've seen it running on bioshock infinite and AC IV. Anyway, about to fire my SLI cards up now...so if there's anything specific you guys want to know, fire away.


lol I meant dx9, 10 and 11. DX9 and newer in other words. Sorry I didn't make that clear.


----------



## Darius510

Well, DSR is working just fine with SLI on my rig.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> Basically easier accessibility of SSAA.


Which is great, because even as someone who knows how to do it, I generally don't. It is just too much of a pain in the butt sometimes.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bluemustang*
> 
> So some people have this working in SLI? I read that it was confirmed that DSR isnt working with SLI? If so when is that expected to be resolved? Silly when thats when its most useful with all that power.
> 
> Also i thought this would work on any game? Like the large point is for older games that dont use much power to be able to make them look good? I think i even heard that said during game 24. Well I play an old DX7 game called Anarchy Online and it doesnt find that game. I cant even manually select it, the .exe doesnt show up. Any idea?


Mine works fine in SLI ... or perhaps only one card is being used? Didn't check any stats while it was running ... but it does run fine on my x2 980 rig ...


----------



## Darius510

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s1rrah*
> 
> Mine works fine in SLI ... or perhaps only one card is being used? Didn't check any stats while it was running ... but it does run fine on my x2 980 rig ...


I checked MSI afterburner, both cards were def working. I mean, I was running titanfall in 4K at 144fps, if that aint SLI, I dont know what is.


----------



## formula m

Some of us use to play @ 800x600 on CRTs.. this whole uber detail thing is a joke...

If you video card is going to render that res, might as well grab a new monitor instead.


----------



## LinkDrive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> Some of us use to play @ 800x600 on CRTs.. this whole uber detail thing is a joke...
> If you video card is going to render that res, might as well grab a new monitor instead.


Except that there's a lot of inherent flaws when it comes to gaming at 4k, let alone the fact that running at 4k still requires a lot of horsepower. Having a 1080p/1440p native screen and downsampling is a much safer way to go.


----------



## LinkDrive

So after tinkering with DSR, I'd have to say I like it slightly better than using custom resolutions, but it still has its own set of faults.

1) Enabling DSR disables the custom resolution button and gets rid of any custom resolution. You like that 2560x1080 custom res you have? Well guess what? You can't access that resolution with DSR enabled.

2) DSR is (currently) incompatible with triple monitors. DSR needs to be disabled for triple monitors to go into surround. Enabling surround removes the option to use DSR.

3) In desktop mode, DSR creates ghosting artifacts when moving windows around. In game seems to be perfectly fine. But if you want to increase desktop real estate, DSR is not the way to go.

However, there are two notable perks of DSR that sold me on it

1) It is extremely easy to set up and configure

2) HDTV users no longer lose sound and the post process effects when downsampling from above 1440p.


----------



## LinkDrive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> Oversampling is dumb.. zero reason to do it.


Using your logic, if downsampling is dumb, then by proxy, AA is also dumb.


----------



## Darius510

I've been playing around with the smoothness a bit...

0% is overly sharp, honestly looks like a plain ol box filter at best - it practically adds back as much temporal aliasing as it removes spatial aliasing. I believe it's the same as old fashioned downsampling, but it's extremely harsh and I don't recommend it in anything but a super competitive game. It's hard to believe I thought this looked good yesterday!

The default of 33% is a decent choice, but I've found that 25% is the most "correct" setting based on this test: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/sharpness.php. Anything lower than 25% oversharpens and makes some squraes much brighter than the others, and anything over 25% makes other squares darker. 25% hits it square in the middle. In game it looks perfect - still very sharp, but not overly so, and just a touch of softness. It's perfect for day to day gaming.

I find up to 50% can still look good - you're definitely blurring, it actually feels somewhat less crisp than straight 1080p, but you're trading very fine detail for a very solid, artifact free image. All the detail from those extra pixels is definitely there, it's just spread out into neighboring pixels a bit, and it's a very cinematic effect similar to TXAA. Yes, it's definitely less sharp, there's no question about that...but it makes it feel like you're watching high quality CGI vs a real-time game, and it can work really well for more cinematic games.

Beyond 50%, it's just too damn blurry for me, but some people might like it. Either way, 33% was a good middle of the road choice for nvidia to set as default.


----------



## LinkDrive

I haven't messed around with the smoothing values too much yet. Though I've found that driver enabled FXAA with 33% smoothness is also quite nice, and removes what little aliasing is left.

On a side note, do you get artifacts when using a dynamic resolution for your desktop?


----------



## Darius510

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LinkDrive*
> 
> I haven't messed around with the smoothing values too much yet. Though I've found that driver enabled FXAA with 33% smoothness is also quite nice, and removes what little aliasing is left.
> 
> On a side note, do you get artifacts when using a dynamic resolution for your desktop?


No, what kind of artifacts are you getting?


----------



## LinkDrive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darius510*
> 
> No, what kind of artifacts are you getting?


Window ghosting (?). Also, objects seem to wibble wobble and distort slightly whenever the mouse pointer moves over them.

I had to snap a pic with my camera since capturing from the desktop doesn't show the artifacts. The window ghosting should be noticeable. It's the black lines seen on the background. Also, the distortion caused by the mouse isn't overly visible in the pic, but it's definitely noticeable in motion.
http://i.imgur.com/3iseVGB.jpg

Again, this only happens when using a dynamic resolution on the windows desktop. In game its perfectly fine. I did notice that the mouse cursor remains the same relative size as in 1080p, so maybe that has something to do with it.


----------



## Darius510

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LinkDrive*
> 
> Window ghosting (?). Also, objects seem to wibble wobble and distort slightly whenever the mouse pointer moves over them.
> 
> I had to snap a pic with my camera since capturing from the desktop doesn't show the artifacts. The window ghosting should be noticeable. It's the black lines seen on the background. Also, the distortion caused by the mouse isn't overly visible in the pic, but it's definitely noticeable in motion.
> http://i.imgur.com/3iseVGB.jpg
> 
> Again, this only happens when using a dynamic resolution on the windows desktop. In game its perfectly fine. I did notice that the mouse cursor remains the same relative size as in 1080p, so maybe that has something to do with it.


I just tested it, tried a few resolutions, swung a few windows around....I see nothing of the sort.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## TFL Replica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darius510*
> 
> I just tested it, tried a few resolutions, swung a few windows around....I see nothing of the sort.


Are you on Windows 7 by any chance?


----------



## Pip Boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> If I have 4k monitor, I would scale the UI 2x just like how Apple does it on their MacBook Retina Display. Not 1:1 but 2:1 scaling. It means all the app need their .ico file to support 128x128+


maybe not relevant to you but most Linux desktops are shipping HI-DPI mode and most icon packs have 64 x 64 support, beyond that there is also a 'scalable' folder which deals with the need for really big icons on really big resolutions.


----------



## Darius510

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TFL Replica*
> 
> Are you on Windows 7 by any chance?


8.1


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> Some of us use to play @ 800x600 on CRTs.. this whole uber detail thing is a joke...
> If you video card is going to render that res, might as well grab a new monitor instead.


Please point me towards an affordable 22-24" 4k monitor with 144hz and backlight strobing control


----------



## Wihglah

OK - tried it.

It works, looks incredible. Just not sure it's worth the fps drop though.

Nice to have the option though


----------



## kennyparker1337

So if you enabled DSR you should also disable AA?

Not sure what the point of this feature is since any decent game has AA built in and even older games you can force AA on?


----------



## LinkDrive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kennyparker1337*
> 
> So if you enabled DSR you should also disable AA?
> 
> Not sure what the point of this feature is since any decent game has AA built in and even older games you can force AA on?


It's not required of you to disable AA if you want to use DSR. Using AA with DSR really depends on how much aliasing appears on screen and whether or not it bothers you. Also, not all games allow for MSAA/SSAA, even if you try to force it via drivers, which is why downsampling has been relevant with enthusiasts for years and why things like FXAA/MLAA/SMAA exists.


----------



## TFL Replica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kennyparker1337*
> 
> So if you enabled DSR you should also disable AA?
> 
> Not sure what the point of this feature is since any decent game has AA built in and even older games you can force AA on?


It's superior to most built-in AA, and it improves texture quality/clarity. Dark Souls 2 is a prime example of a game that shines with downsampling.


----------



## ZeusHavok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TFL Replica*
> 
> It's superior to most built-in AA, and it improves texture quality/clarity. Dark Souls 2 is a prime example of a game that shines with downsampling.


Agreed, it looks fantastic downsampled from 5k


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kennyparker1337*
> 
> So if you enabled DSR you should also disable AA?
> 
> Not sure what the point of this feature is since any decent game has AA built in and even older games you can force AA on?


You can't easily force MSAA 4x etc on a bunch of engines. Many games rely entirely on FXAA, which removes aliasing in static images but has problems with blurring and more importantly doesn't fix temporal aliasing at all which is the most distracting form of aliasing


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kennyparker1337*
> 
> So if you enabled DSR you should also disable AA?
> 
> Not sure what the point of this feature is since any decent game has AA built in and even older games you can force AA on?


TXAA, FXAA, AA, MSAA, MFAA, SMAA are all overlay effect on top of the rendering. If you ever use Adobe Aftereffects, those overlay color grading and enhancement on every single frame is a lot more heavier to process than having supersample the render and scale it down to 1080p/whatever native resolution you have. There is no double rendering on top with DSR in my belief. But I heard it has a 13 step of blur just to smooth things out?

A lot of games uses FXAA especially MMO, and the foliages are terrible, I am waiting for DSR to come so I can turn off FXAA.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bluemustang*
> 
> So some people have this working in SLI? I read that it was confirmed that DSR isnt working with SLI? If so when is that expected to be resolved? Silly when thats when its most useful with all that power.
> 
> Also i thought this would work on any game? Like the large point is for older games that dont use much power to be able to make them look good? I think i even heard that said during game 24. Well I play an old DX7 game called Anarchy Online and it doesnt find that game. I cant even manually select it, the .exe doesnt show up. Any idea?


I tried it with DeusX Human Revolution earlier today and even though the resolution seemed to change via the menus ... the screen resolution in game never changed ...

First game I've tried that doesn't work ...

Also did some tests on my 1440p PLS screen running Half Life 2 with the full Cinematic mod at something ridiculous (x4) like 5000 something or other by something else (forget the actual res) and it not only LOOKED stupidly good ... on x2 980's, it RAN stupidly good ... over 190FPS ... LOL ... but when you go to change it back to standard res (or anything else regarding the in-game options menu), you better break out the reading glasses, cause there is just no way to read the interface font ... TINY doesn't even begin to describe what happens to the menus at that res ... LOL ...

But it's an old game and even with the texture mods, can be played VERY FAST at ridiculously high resolutions ...


----------



## zantetheo

Education from Tom Petersen about DSR min: 11: 27 till 19:00


----------



## djriful

1 hr and 45 min... i need to find some time to watch this. This is like a movie length.


----------



## JakdMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Source*
> 
> I'm afraid that the long awaited anti aliasing solution we've all been waiting for is resolution increases. Wether you want to hear that or not.
> 
> If anything, your uneducated opinion seems off...


Considering I'm only in the field of graphic design and not game development, no GPU engineering I suppose it's possible


----------



## ZealotKi11er

So i just watched the PCPer Video. What i have been saying all this time about V-Sync vs G-Sync @ 60 fps + in a 60 Hz panel seems to be true. There is no difference between them. G-Sync will have the benefit of still working if it drops below 60 fps but still carry the input lag that come with capping fps @ 60 Hz instead of letting them go wild.


----------



## SuprUsrStan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> So i just watched the PCPer Video. What i have been saying all this time about V-Sync vs G-Sync @ 60 fps + in a 60 Hz panel seems to be true. There is no difference between them. G-Sync will have the benefit of still working if it drops below 60 fps but still carry the input lag that come with capping fps @ 60 Hz instead of letting them go wild.


Sure but you should just frame limit to 59 fps then w/gsync on the gpu side.

frame limit/target + gsync is the ideal setup.


----------



## Darius510

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> Sure but you should just frame limit to 59 fps then w/gsync on the gpu side.
> 
> frame limit/target + gsync is the ideal setup.


Don't you think if it was that simple that they'd set that up by default?


----------



## TFL Replica

Quote:


> Improving downsampling quality and making it independent from monitor hardware compatibility have always been two of the most essential goals of GeDoSaTo. Obviously, with driver integration you are also in a position to make things much easier for non-technical users, something which was never a real target for GeDoSaTo.
> 
> However, the largest advantages of a driver-based method are the following:
> 
> 
> *Compatibility* - since you can act after the 3D API, and not on its level, you get compatibility with any API, including all versions of DirectX and OpenGL.
> *Input Independence* - a lot of the hard parts both in writing GeDoSaTo and in configuring it come with making mouse input work, since the OS knows it's actually running at resolution X while the game thinks it's running at Y. When operating on the driver level, OS and applications will be on the same page again, removing a major source of issues and need for implementation work.
> 
> These are things which are far harder to achieve in GeDoSaTo, and will likely never be possible on the same level.
> 
> Nonetheless, GeDoSaTo has evolved a lot from its initial role as just a downsampling tool, with HuD-less screenshot taking, postprocessing, texture replacement and other features taking a major role. Also, it seems like, at least for now, it will remain the only option for larger than 2×2 downsampling. And of course, it will always be more highly configurable - and obviously less vendor dependent - than a driver tool.
> 
> In any case, I'm really happy that high-quality downsampling is finally acknowledged by a hardware vendor (and, if history is any indication, it won't be too long before AMD catches up). And I'm even happier to think that perhaps the reason it happened now is at least partly because of GeDoSaTo.


*Source*


----------



## s1rrah

Just finished playing a Bioshock: Infinite session, about two hours worth ... all the while at 3840x2160 resolution on a 1440p monitor (Samsung S27850D) (... using DSR ) ...
.

And, I have to say, it looked pretty freakishly good.

Comes down to it, I think the whole DSR/downsampling thing is worth it if you can keep frame rates reasonable...

3840x2160 screenshots....

...



...



...


----------



## batman900

^ I tried the same res on my 1440p monitor with WoW and it just made everything really freaking blurry :-/


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s1rrah*
> 
> Just finished playing a Bioshock: Infinite session, about two hours worth ... all the while at 3840x2160 resolution on a 1440p monitor (Samsung S27850D) (... using DSR ) ...
> .
> 
> And, I have to say, it looked pretty freakishly good.
> 
> Comes down to it, I think the whole DSR/downsampling thing is worth it if you can keep frame rates reasonable...
> 
> ...


How do you think the screen fidelity and performance fares between DSR 5K(either 5120x2880p, or 3840x2160p) versus 4x SSAA at 1/2 the screen dimensions(2560x1440, or 1920x1080)?
I think it should definitely improve either of them since Gaussian filters calculated at the shaders(front-end) should mitigate rop dependent resolution scaling performance(back-end).


----------



## s1rrah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtcn77*
> 
> How do you think the screen fidelity and performance fares between DSR 5K(either 5120x2880p, or 3840x2160p) versus 4x SSAA at 1/2 the screen dimensions(2560x1440, or 1920x1080)?
> I think it should definitely improve either of them since Gaussian filters calculated at the shaders(front-end) should mitigate rop dependent resolution scaling performance(back-end).


I've only played around with the 5000+ resolutions ... but the FPS hit is way too bad for me (about 20fps) ....

If you have a 1440p native monitor? Play at 3840x2160 (you will have to set this up in Nvidia control panel) .... with Bioshock Infininite? My x2 GTX 980's are sort of relaxing ...


----------



## formula m

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> Please point me towards an affordable 22-24" 4k monitor with 144hz and backlight strobing control


I was gaming on 22" monitors 20 years ago...! I no longer live in a dorm room, or out of my bed room. I own a house... a boat.. an ATV.. and cars. I also pay insurance on all those.

I am *not* looking for an "affordable" monitor... I want all the latest tech in a 30"~34" @ $2k... and a $2k video card to push it. I am not limited by space constraints. Bigger is better.

edit: for gaming, PPI is a joke. Great for reading & editing.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> I am not looking for an "affordable" monitor


Gratz, you are the 0.01% who has zero budget constraints for system and general hardware expenditure
Quote:


> edit: for gaming, PPI is a joke. Great for reading & editing.


Temporal aliasing.. If it doesn't bother you, why are you whining so much about other people being able to fix it now? You should just be happy that you don't see massive flaws in 3d rendering like that and don't have to waste a ton of computing power to partially fix them.


----------



## jtw473

Just tried it on my 4k tv, it does indeed work at 4k although its pretty worthless without sli support.



Also although my display is 3840x2160 native its max supported res is 4096x2160 and it seems DSR is using multiples of that instead on my native resolution.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> Basically easier accessibility of SSAA.


Still important.

SSAA is extremely difficult to get working with some games on some configs.


----------



## s1rrah

Skyrim at 5120x2880 ... that's what DSR natively converts my 1440p screen to ...

Actually plays pretty good without ENB ... stays between 35fps and 45fps ... with ENB enabled it drops down to low to mid 20's and too laggy ...

This shot is with ENB enabled .... surprisingly vast:

...



...

This is another from Whiterun with ENB turned off:

....



...


----------



## ZeusHavok

You only get 35fps with 2 980s @ 5k? That's a bit low since I get the same if not more with my 970s.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZeusHavok*
> 
> You only get 35fps with 2 980s @ 5k? That's a bit low since I get the same if not more with my 970s.


Minimum of 35fps and goes up to upper 40's, lower 50's ... Skyrim fluctuates like mad ...

Besides that ... the 970's are right on the heels of the 980's in just about every test, not a big difference at all ... great cards, 970's .. insane value.


----------



## zantetheo

From techreport:

Maxwell's Dynamic Super Resolution explored



As you can see, using DSR at 3840x2400 and scaling down to our 1920x1200 display for output is slightly slower than rendering natively at 4K.


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s1rrah*
> 
> Skyrim at 5120x2880 ... that's what DSR natively converts my 1440p screen to ...
> 
> Actually plays pretty good without ENB ... stays between 35fps and 45fps ... with ENB enabled it drops down to low to mid 20's and too laggy ...
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> This shot is with ENB enabled .... surprisingly vast:
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> This is another from Whiterun with ENB turned off:
> 
> ....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Took me about a minute to load one of those screenshots... Just insane amount of pixels going on there







Seems like its running pretty good. Do you have a lot of mods besides ENB?


----------



## s1rrah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> Took me about a minute to load one of those screenshots... Just insane amount of pixels going on there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems like its running pretty good. Do you have a lot of mods besides ENB?


A *gazillion* mods ... every texture pack, actually combined ... and as you can see from the white run shots ... lots of foliage/terrain mods to add way more trees, shrubs and the like ...

I've recently learned that those screenshots are just native 5120x2880 shots and don't actually show the smoothing effect that DSR provides ... but still, pretty damn expansive view ...

Metro Last Light is SUBLIMELY gorgeous at 5120 res ... and with anti aliasing turned down very low and SSAA at 0.5x I get a solid 90 to 100 fps .. and man some of the outdoor, rainy landscapes are just silly nice looking ...


----------



## Slaughtahouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s1rrah*
> 
> A *gazillion* mods ... every texture pack, actually combined ... and as you can see from the white run shots ... lots of foliage/terrain mods to add way more trees, shrubs and the like ...
> 
> I've recently learned that those screenshots are just native 5120x2880 shots and don't actually show the smoothing effect that DSR provides ... but still, pretty damn expansive view ...
> 
> Metro Last Light is SUBLIMELY gorgeous at 5120 res ... and with anti aliasing turned down very low and SSAA at 0.5x I get a solid 90 to 100 fps .. and man some of the outdoor, rainy landscapes are just silly nice looking ...


Well idk if there is any smooth effect but when I click on the picture, I can view it so it fits my screen, or 1:1 scale. So I would imagine when it's compressed to fit my 1080p laptop screen, its about the same effect you see it in game.


----------



## Darius510

So a few things I'm noticing with DSR - the best results are obtained by combining multiple types of AA, depending on the game.

If there's lots of edge aliasing, 2X DSR is enough to completely counteract the texture blurring of FXAA, and basically gives you perfect edge aliasing with reasonable performance. There's almost no reason not to use FXAA/SMAA when using DSR.
If there's lots of subpixel, transparency or temporal aliasing, 2X DSR can counteract most of the blurriness of TXAA. If TXAA isnt an option and there's lots of subpixel aliasing (like games with epic draw distances) 4X MSAA + 2x DSR will do a much better job with it and probably perform better than 4x DSR.
If transparencies are a problem (imagine a huge field of transparent grass textures like dear esther or oblivion), driver forced 2/4x SGSSAA is awesome for that, and 2x DSR counteracts some of that softness and texture blur you get with driver SGSSAA.

As long as youre careful not to overdo it with the smoothness setting, DSR is basically the cure for the drawbacks of so many types of AA. I can see NVIDIA doing some interesting things with it in the future...instead of a gaussian blur before downsampling, they can build FXAA right into the DSR filter. Perhaps they could even use a directionally weighted filter and shift it every frame, doing a sort of pseudo temporal AA.


----------



## Wihglah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *formula m*
> 
> No I have not used 1080p in 5 years bro.. and we know 5k TV/Monitors don't exist... that is why I am going mad. But Buying a monitor and running 5k on it does nothing for you... except fill you nuts with a little bit of glee.
> 
> You don't really gain anything you tool. It is a gimmick... pumping 5k thru lower rez monitor. The point of a 980ti was facetious to illustrate your own ignorance.. that if 970 are "powerful", than a pair of 980, 980ti, or a Titan are moAr powerful, and able to oversample better on 1440... so why don't you have that..?


It works. It's pretty neat.

I think combining MFAA with an x1.5 DSR on a 1440P screen will look excellent and be useable in terms of FPS for a lot of games.


----------



## kennyparker1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slaughtahouse*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *s1rrah*
> 
> A *gazillion* mods ... every texture pack, actually combined ... and as you can see from the white run shots ... lots of foliage/terrain mods to add way more trees, shrubs and the like ...
> 
> I've recently learned that those screenshots are just native 5120x2880 shots and don't actually show the smoothing effect that DSR provides ... but still, pretty damn expansive view ...
> 
> Metro Last Light is SUBLIMELY gorgeous at 5120 res ... and with anti aliasing turned down very low and SSAA at 0.5x I get a solid 90 to 100 fps .. and man some of the outdoor, rainy landscapes are just silly nice looking ...
> 
> 
> 
> Well idk if there is any smooth effect but when I click on the picture, I can view it so it fits my screen, or 1:1 scale. So I would imagine when it's compressed to fit my 1080p laptop screen, its about the same effect you see it in game.
Click to expand...

Yep just view the screenshots in fullscreen to see the effect it has.

http://cdn.overclock.net/5/53/53c787d8_bio00.jpeg

Click on this which will auto scale it to your screen size than press F11 to toggle full-screen mode.

I really wish people would provide the same screenshot without DSR so we could compare...


----------



## Pip Boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s1rrah*
> 
> Just finished playing a Bioshock: Infinite session, about two hours worth ... all the while at 3840x2160 resolution on a 1440p monitor (Samsung S27850D) (... using DSR ) ...
> .
> 
> And, I have to say, it looked pretty freakishly good.
> 
> Comes down to it, I think the whole DSR/downsampling thing is worth it if you can keep frame rates reasonable...
> 
> 3840x2160 screenshots....
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


what kind of freakishly powerful machine do you have that can run 4k at 120+ fps on a demanding game like bioshock with what looks like ultra settings









You.

I envy you


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phill1978*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *s1rrah*
> 
> Just finished playing a Bioshock: Infinite session, about two hours worth ... all the while at 3840x2160 resolution on a 1440p monitor (Samsung S27850D) (... using DSR ) ...
> .
> 
> And, I have to say, it looked pretty freakishly good.
> 
> Comes down to it, I think the whole DSR/downsampling thing is worth it if you can keep frame rates reasonable...
> 
> 3840x2160 screenshots....
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> what kind of freakishly powerful machine do you have that can run 4k at 120+ fps on a demanding game like bioshock with what looks like ultra settings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You.
> 
> I envy you
Click to expand...

BioShock is not that demanding compare to other decent games today...


----------



## LinkDrive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phill1978*
> 
> what kind of freakishly powerful machine do you have that can run 4k at 120+ fps on a demanding game like bioshock with what looks like ultra settings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You.
> 
> I envy you


Techpowerup benched 2x GTX 980's at nearly 90 FPS in Bioshock Infinite using stock speeds. It's not unreasonable to assume that, depending on the in game location and the clock speed of the cards, that 2x GTX 980's could hit the 120 FPS mark








http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_980_SLI/7.html


----------



## s1rrah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phill1978*
> 
> what kind of freakishly powerful machine do you have that can run 4k at 120+ fps on a demanding game like bioshock with what looks like ultra settings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You.
> 
> I envy you


Ultra settings as I recall ... and I'm sure with all antialiasing disabled ...

x2 980's at around 1500mhz and a 2700K @ 5ghz ...

And I agree ... compared to a lot of games ... Bioshock isn't too resource intensive ...


----------



## StrongForce

http://techreport.com/review/27102/maxwell-dynamic-super-resolution-explored

Extended review/article about DSR, I thought it might interest you guys!









I personally can't see the difference in screenshots, I think it's a glitch with my browser or flash player if it's even using flash, surely I can't be that tired not to notice, or maybe I can.


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> http://techreport.com/review/27102/maxwell-dynamic-super-resolution-explored
> 
> Extended review/article about DSR, I thought it might interest you guys!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I personally can't see the difference in screenshots, I think it's a glitch with my browser or flash player if it's even using flash, surely I can't be that tired not to notice, or maybe I can.


Screenshot you can't capture what you see, if you use in-game screenshot mode instead of using 3rd party which capture in Desktop fullscreen shot.


----------



## StrongForce

Mmh not sure I get what you mean, why would they put the different screens comparison then?? unless those are actual pictures and not screens.


----------



## TFL Replica

This is one of Nvidia's slides, comparing the grass with and without DSR, in Dark Souls 2.


----------



## s1rrah

I've been playing a sort of old game called "Singularity" ... I think it came out like four years ago or something.

It's really rad (story, game play, etc). Super linear but very well done.

Anyway, at 2560x1440 it looked okay ... even for an older game ... but once I set it to run at 5120x2880 via DSR ... and also used a neat little field of view hack software called "Flawless Widescreen" ... man, the game genuinely was 10x better to play ...

You can't see it in these screenshots but the DSR factor gave everything this super smooth look ... zero jaggies anywhere ... and the textures were insane looking for a rather aged game:

...



...



...



...



...

Pretty rad game .. really atmospheric and well voice acted; can't believe I didn't hear more about this title back in the day. It's linear as all get out but hella fun ... like Metro 2033 crossed with Bioshock crossed with Half Life 2 ...

Highly recommended if you don't mind or just straight up enjoy linear, extremely well produced/acted/written shooters ...


----------



## hanzy

Hows your FPS at that res?


----------



## s1rrah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hanzy*
> 
> Hows your FPS at that res?


With that particular game I stay pegged at 120fps ... I think it's some how FPS limited actually because it literally never goes above 120/121 and generally doesn't drop below that much ...

It's an older game though ...

With newer titles FPS at 2880p can be anywhere from 100+ (Bioshock Infinite) or as low as 45 to 50fps (super heavy texture modded Skyrim) ...

After playing for about a week at that res ... I've kind of become addicted ...


----------



## Murlocke

Friend's been downsampling 4K to 1080p on his new 980 and it runs incredible well. You don't even need AA, it's better than any form of MSAA i've seen, and it looks really good. Surprisely, 4K isn't all that hard to run when you don't need AA. He's maintaining 60 in almost every title...

Tomorrow, going to try hooking his comp up to my 3440x1440 monitor to see how it handles 21:9 and higher than 1080p resolutions.... Should be interesting considering if it still allows 4x scaling, that's 19.8 million pixels, 4K is *only* 8.2 million pixels. If this actually works i'll probably buy 2x 980 Ti when they release.


----------



## Pip Boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *s1rrah*
> 
> Ultra settings as I recall ... and I'm sure with all antialiasing disabled ...
> 
> x2 980's at around 1500mhz and a 2700K @ 5ghz ...
> 
> And I agree ... compared to a lot of games ... Bioshock isn't too resource intensive ...


ohh sorry i didn't know. i don't have that game on Linux yet. Im still coming to terms with the awesome graphics on Borderlands 2


----------



## djriful

*still waiting* to support GTX 700/TITAN.


----------



## Falknir

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *djriful*
> 
> *still waiting* to support GTX 700/TITAN.


Yeah, still waiting for GTX TITAN support as well. I really want DSR!


----------



## djriful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Murlocke*
> 
> Friend's been downsampling 4K to 1080p on his new 980 and it runs incredible well. You don't even need AA, it's better than any form of MSAA i've seen, and it looks really good. Surprisely, 4K isn't all that hard to run when you don't need AA. He's maintaining 60 in almost every title...
> 
> Tomorrow, going to try hooking his comp up to my 3440x1440 monitor to see how it handles 21:9 and higher than 1080p resolutions.... Should be interesting considering if it still allows 4x scaling, that's 19.8 million pixels, 4K is *only* 8.2 million pixels. If this actually works i'll probably buy 2x 980 Ti when they release.


Death to AA?  bye FXAA, TXAA, MSAA, SMAA, MFAA (even just added) etc.


----------



## Nestala

I game in 1080p, and in some games, DSR is really nice. You just have to turn it on and see for yourself if the effect is worth it losing the FPS. I love it for GTA IV so far. I pretty much can turn off AA with DSR on and I don't see a difference. Without it, edges and stuff were horrible, even with AA at x16. Now I only have AA at x2 but DSR at x4, and the edges are actually smooth, it's actually playable right now.


----------



## orick

From the tech report article, it seems the best result is from a mix of DSR at 2x and a a bit AA


----------



## LinkDrive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *orick*
> 
> From the tech report article, it seems the best result is from a mix of DSR at 2x and a a bit AA


2x DSR + FXAA is a pretty good place to start IMO. Personally, I like setting 2x DSR + FXAA + 2xMSAA (or SSAA when available). That normally does a pretty good job of destroying aliasing with minimal performance impact.


----------



## Xeno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LinkDrive*
> 
> So after tinkering with DSR, I'd have to say I like it slightly better than using custom resolutions, but it still has its own set of faults.
> 
> 1) Enabling DSR disables the custom resolution button and gets rid of any custom resolution. You like that 2560x1080 custom res you have? Well guess what? You can't access that resolution with DSR enabled.
> 
> Im buying a 970 as soon as they are in stock. What native RES does it support. I have an old CRT 24 inch, does it support all the square resolutions? like 12 10?


----------



## LinkDrive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xeno1*
> 
> Im buying a 970 as soon as they are in stock. What native RES does it support. I have an old CRT 24 inch, does it support all the square resolutions? like 12 10?


The native resolution depends on your display, not video card. The drivers should report what native resolution your screen is (which you can verify when you change your resolution through the Windows resolution setting), and DSR simply multiplies that. So yes, if your screen is seen with a native 4:3 resolution, DSR will create multiples in a 4:3 format.


----------



## Xeno1

Ty i meant what native RES does DSR support. not the card. Im not that newb


----------



## TFL Replica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xeno1*
> 
> Ty i meant what native RES does DSR support. not the card. Im not that newb


I see no reason why it wouldn't support any native res. That said, I haven't seen any examples of DSR applied to 4:3 resolutions.


----------



## LinkDrive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TFL Replica*
> 
> That said, I haven't seen any examples of DSR applied to 4:3 resolutions.


But then again, how many people still use 4:3 displays on high end gaming hardware?









DSR should work regardless what the native aspect ratio is. I know that downsampling through custom resolutions on a 4:3 screen works, so DSR should too as long as the screen is detected as 4:3 native.


----------



## Xeno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LinkDrive*
> 
> But then again, how many people still use 4:3 displays on high end gaming hardware?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DSR should work regardless what the native aspect ratio is. I know that downsampling through custom resolutions on a 4:3 screen works, so DSR should too as long as the screen is detected as 4:3 native.


Well since i have 350 dollars now. New card takes priority over over a 1440 screen. There is nothing wrong with my 24 inch NEC 120 hhz CRT. Im not in hurry to blow 150 on a 1080 LCD either. Only thing high end on this rig will be the video card. CPU- OC 4.0 Ghz Core i5 760.


----------



## LinkDrive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xeno1*
> 
> Well since i have 350 dollars now. New card takes priority over over a 1440 screen. There is nothing wrong with my 24 inch NEC 120 hhz CRT. Im not in hurry to blow 150 on a 1080 LCD either. Only thing high end on this rig will be the video card. CPU- OC 4.0 Ghz Core i5 760.


Personally, if I were in your shoes, I would do the same thing. Video card now, monitor later. There's no reason to get a new monitor at this point if you're happy with what you currently have. Hardware wise, it sounds like you have a pretty good CRT.


----------



## Xeno1

This old boy is still kicking but is so old the white houseing has yellowed with smoke scum and age LOL


----------



## Melcar

Replacing that CRT would be a sin.


----------



## The Source

1440p Korean PLS 110Hz is the better option for 300USD.


----------



## s1rrah

I think DSR has officially ruined 1440p gaming for me ... After an entire weekend of playing Metro LL and then all day yesterday playing Alien:Isolation at 5120x2880 ... Going back to 1440p was as bad as going back to 1080p from 1440p. LOL...

5120x2880 is far more immersive ... Even with AA/AF turned all the way off ...

Pretty clever marketing move on Nvidias part as I'm already wondering when I can upgrade these two 980s ...

;-)


----------



## cutty1998

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mhill2029*
> 
> It's actually quite common....strangely. And it's baffling to me too.


I just got a single GTX 980,and am still using a BenQ XL2420TX 120Hz monitor. I am looking for a 1440P replacement,but am concerned about losing the 120Hz refresh. any monitor recommendations? Can't swing the Asus ROG Gsync right now,and I almost feel like that is the only way to go .Those overclockable Korean A- panels seem kinda shady also.


----------



## Shogon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cutty1998*
> 
> I just got a single GTX 980,and am still using a BenQ XL2420TX 120Hz monitor. I am looking for a 1440P replacement,but am concerned about losing the 120Hz refresh. any monitor recommendations? Can't swing the Asus ROG Gsync right now,and I almost feel like that is the only way to go .Those overclockable Korean A- panels seem kinda shady also.


Between the Koreans and the Swift you are hard pressed to find 1440p and above 60 Hz.

There is this, http://overlordcomputer.com/collections/27-monitors/products/tempest-x270oc-glossy
Quote:


> Panel Warranty: One (1) year. No more than 3/3/5 bright/colored (stuck)/dead pixels shall appear during the warranty period.
> Internal Components: One (1) year.
> Power Brick: One (1) year.
> Spare/Replacement Parts: Ninety (90) days.


I think they are in California also but you do pay more vs. the Korean monitors but may have a bit more safety if things go awry.


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melcar*
> 
> Replacing that CRT would be a sin.


+1. Some CRTs are priceless.


Spoiler: Warning: Watching other gameplay videos of this guy will give you heartbreak.


----------



## cutty1998

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogon*
> 
> Between the Koreans and the Swift you are hard pressed to find 1440p and above 60 Hz.
> 
> There is this, http://overlordcomputer.com/collections/27-monitors/products/tempest-x270oc-glossy
> I think they are in California also but you do pay more vs. the Korean monitors but may have a bit more safety if things go awry.


I almost bought a monitor from him 2 years ago ,but they never arrived in time. I was on his waiting list for the higher end 120Mhz 1440P panel,but I ended up getting the BenQ for $450 . I would like to sell it now for maybe $250 .It comes with the Nvidia 3D glasses Not sure if anyone cares though.I guess 3D jumped the shark in 2012.


----------



## Cyro999

When i first tried out DSR, i was immediately put off. It didn't work on desktop (weird bugs, artifacts etc.. i've seen another user describe them here) and in my games, i found very low smoothing %'s to make stuff look unusably broken, small text became extremely difficult to read etc.

At high smoothing %'s, or even 30-40%, it looked like a blurred mess, like somebody had put on FXAA extremely strongly, and my UI was hard to see in games. Also, in a few games i tried.. i went straight for 4k res, and they had big issues displaying this on a 24" screen. I had to scale UI and it didn't work well.

I took another look at it today and after some trial and error, i started playing with 1440p>1080p scaling. I got down to 15% smoothing, then i went up 1.5x to 22%, and it looks much better now! It's a bit of a hacky method - the Supersampling in Battlefield 4, Planetside 2 and Guild Wars 2 for example seemed to work better without negative consequences to the UI or general loss of sharpness - but it's extremely effective. Glad to have it









I am what could be described as extremely picky, so i think most people might be happy with the default of 33% smoothness. It was too much for me, though, in the games i tried it on


----------



## DiNet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> When i first tried out DSR, i was immediately put off. It didn't work on desktop (weird bugs, artifacts etc.. i've seen another user describe them here) and in my games, i found very low smoothing %'s to make stuff look unusably broken, small text became extremely difficult to read etc.
> 
> At high smoothing %'s, or even 30-40%, it looked like a blurred mess, like somebody had put on FXAA extremely strongly, and my UI was hard to see in games. Also, in a few games i tried.. i went straight for 4k res, and they had big issues displaying this on a 24" screen. I had to scale UI and it didn't work well.
> 
> I took another look at it today and after some trial and error, i started playing with 1440p>1080p scaling. I got down to 15% smoothing, then i went up 1.5x to 22%, and it looks much better now! It's a bit of a hacky method - the Supersampling in Battlefield 4, Planetside 2 and Guild Wars 2 for example seemed to work better without negative consequences to the UI or general loss of sharpness - but it's extremely effective. Glad to have it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am what could be described as extremely picky, so i think most people might be happy with the default of 33% smoothness. It was too much for me, though, in the games i tried it on


20-25% smoothness is the "way to got" for me. Anything above that and it seems like a blurred out image.
I've had "artifacts" when just put gpu in 2 years old rig. Not your avg. artifacts when gpu is overheating/failing, but like huge chunk of wallpaper removed when set 4K on global.
I did plan to re-install windows with this new card. After clean install it seems it works a lot better. I've yet to experience any image processing issue on any resolution above 1080 native.
And I did have also some issues before. BL2 wouldn't allow to go over 1080, Crysis3 was not recognized by gfexp. at all.
There was no DSR option under nvidia control panel, not in global and not in per-app setting.
All that went away after re-installing windows









p.s. not saying that this is a fix for anyone's issues. I was planning to do fresh install with new gpu.


----------



## Nestala

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> When i first tried out DSR, i was immediately put off. It didn't work on desktop (weird bugs, artifacts etc.. i've seen another user describe them here) and in my games, i found very low smoothing %'s to make stuff look unusably broken, small text became extremely difficult to read etc.
> 
> At high smoothing %'s, or even 30-40%, it looked like a blurred mess, like somebody had put on FXAA extremely strongly, and my UI was hard to see in games. Also, in a few games i tried.. i went straight for 4k res, and they had big issues displaying this on a 24" screen. I had to scale UI and it didn't work well.
> 
> I took another look at it today and after some trial and error, i started playing with 1440p>1080p scaling. I got down to 15% smoothing, then i went up 1.5x to 22%, and it looks much better now! It's a bit of a hacky method - the Supersampling in Battlefield 4, Planetside 2 and Guild Wars 2 for example seemed to work better without negative consequences to the UI or general loss of sharpness - but it's extremely effective. Glad to have it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am what could be described as extremely picky, so i think most people might be happy with the default of 33% smoothness. It was too much for me, though, in the games i tried it on


Try 25%, seems optimal for me.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nestala*
> 
> Try 25%, seems optimal for me.


22, 25, close enough


----------



## Wihglah

I left mine at 33% - never thought to change it.

I'll have a play tonight.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wihglah*
> 
> I left mine at 33% - never thought to change it.
> 
> I'll have a play tonight.


~15-25% instead of 33 definitely makes a LOT of difference. I would advise to scale from 1.5x per axis (so the 2.25x setting, which is 1920x1080 using a DSR of 2880x1620) with ~20% to start out.

The different resolutions that are not 1.5x or 2x per axis (1620p and 4k, if you're on 1080p) might require more blurring(?)


----------



## s1rrah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> ~15-25% instead of 33 definitely makes a LOT of difference. I would advise to scale from 1.5x per axis (so the 2.25x setting, which is 1920x1080 using a DSR of 2880x1620) with ~20% to start out.
> 
> The different resolutions that are not 1.5x or 2x per axis (1620p and 4k, if you're on 1080p) might require more blurring(?)


I'm going to try the lower smoothness as well although I'm really pleased with the sharpness of the image thus far, but then again I'm at 5120x2880 resolution. I haven't tried DSR with any of the 4K resolutions on my 1080p monitor ...

At 2880p, the 33% smoothing factor looks fantastic ...

Also, I don't use DSR on the desktop at all ... just not fine/crisp enough ... and things are TINY at 2880p on the desktop ...


----------



## Wihglah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> ~15-25% instead of 33 definitely makes a LOT of difference. I would advise to scale from 1.5x per axis (so the 2.25x setting, which is 1920x1080 using a DSR of 2880x1620) with ~20% to start out.
> 
> The different resolutions that are not 1.5x or 2x per axis (1620p and 4k, if you're on 1080p) might require more blurring(?)


Ran Grid : Autosport at 25%

I have a swift - so native is 1440p, I ran with the x2.25 multiplier on Ultra and was getting 80-120fps G-Sync'ed.

It does look much better. Much Gracias!


----------



## Craftyman

DSR would be great in diablo 3. That game is alias city for me.


----------



## Darius510

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> ~15-25% instead of 33 definitely makes a LOT of difference. I would advise to scale from 1.5x per axis (so the 2.25x setting, which is 1920x1080 using a DSR of 2880x1620) with ~20% to start out.
> 
> The different resolutions that are not 1.5x or 2x per axis (1620p and 4k, if you're on 1080p) might require more blurring(?)


I tested it out pretty extensively - you absolutely need some blur at most multipliers. It doesnt matter whether its an even divide at all. At 0% there will be an extreme amount of aliasing and artifacts added, I really dont suggest it at all. 10% kills a lot of it but not all of it. 25% is the sweet spot where its not overly blurred but there's no additional temporal aliasing from the downscale either. Beyond that you're choosing to smooth the image beyond what's strictly necessary.

The only exception to the 0% rule is 4X - it needs no smoothing whatsoever to avoid artifacts, since it's a clean downscale on both axes. It's looks great and every bit as sharp as native res.

Personally I run 25% at all multiplers, except for 0% at 4X.


----------



## mtcn77

I still wonder how quality compares between AMD's 17x aa(8x SSAA, 2x EQAA +1x SMAA) versus Nvidia's 65x aa(8x TRAA-ssaa-, 2x CSAA, 4x DSR +1x SMAA).


----------



## louiscarter88

Hey guys, I just turned on DSR and I like the look on my QNIX 1440p monitor, but now I can't run it at the refresh rates I'm used to having?

Does anyone know if you can have both DSR and an OC'd refresh rate?


----------



## Strileckifunk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *louiscarter88*
> 
> Hey guys, I just turned on DSR and I like the look on my QNIX 1440p monitor, but now I can't run it at the refresh rates I'm used to having?
> 
> Does anyone know if you can have both DSR and an OC'd refresh rate?


Just got my 970 today and have been wondering the same. I think you can still do it the AMD way through CRU, but I forget if it requires patching the drivers like it does for AMD.


----------



## kennyparker1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *louiscarter88*
> 
> Hey guys, I just turned on DSR and I like the look on my QNIX 1440p monitor, but now I can't run it at the refresh rates I'm used to having?
> 
> Does anyone know if you can have both DSR and an OC'd refresh rate?


DSR is essentially gaming at a much higher resolution (which is later downscaled).
That means it requires a lot more resolution and therefore much more bandwidth.

The Qnix/Xstar boards are capable of a 450MHz pixel clock.

Assuming the DSR applies a 4K affect than here are the pixel clocks for 4K refresh rates:
(CVT Reduced Blank)
120 = 1100MHz
60 = 533MHz
50 = 442MHz

So with DSR at 4K you are looking at 50Hz max safe for this monitor.
Alternatively these monitors can natively do 109Hz (CVT Reduced Blank) safe.

It all depends on what amount of DSR is used.

edit:
The math was fun but the entire scenario was flawed...
Quote:


> Well I am using HDMI from my HP LP2475w monitor to my GTX 980 and 3840x2400 @ 60 FPS is working fine here. *The downsampling is being done internally in the VRAM and the outputted image sent to the screen is still at the native resolution of your display* so you should be fine with DVI.


DSR and Refresh Rate should not affect one another.

FPS will be affected though.
It doesn't require anymore bandwidth than normal but it does require more calculations.
It is still essentially playing at the higher resolutions.

So the more DSR that is applied, the more FPS you will lose.


----------



## Thetbrett

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *louiscarter88*
> 
> Hey guys, I just turned on DSR and I like the look on my QNIX 1440p monitor, but now I can't run it at the refresh rates I'm used to having?
> 
> Does anyone know if you can have both DSR and an OC'd refresh rate?


no, not that I can see. Had mine at 85hz, and when switching to 4x, it flicked back to 60hz, and Custom resolutions was disabled. When I turned DSR off, up popped my custom 1440p 85hz profile. I'm sure some very clever people will discover a work around, but as it stands, no.


----------



## Exilon

I had to do a clean install to get >60 Hz working on my 144 Hz setup.

Borderlands and other games still pick 60 Hz though, so DSR is not useful for me at this point. It needs some bug fixes.


----------



## kennyparker1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thetbrett*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *louiscarter88*
> 
> Hey guys, I just turned on DSR and I like the look on my QNIX 1440p monitor, but now I can't run it at the refresh rates I'm used to having?
> 
> Does anyone know if you can have both DSR and an OC'd refresh rate?
> 
> 
> 
> no, not that I can see. Had mine at 85hz, and when switching to 4x, it flicked back to 60hz, and Custom resolutions was disabled. When I turned DSR off, up popped my custom 1440p 85hz profile. I'm sure some very clever people will discover a work around, but as it stands, no.
Click to expand...

You can't make a custom DSR? That sucks.
So Nvidia just assumes everyone is on the native resolution and only that should be used?

edit: Man am I stupid.
Didn't realize my card was capable of DSR.

It has nothing to do with hardware limitations.
It's a software issue in which the control panel disables custom resolutions with DSR enabled.


----------



## Exilon

Actually, any one know how to turn these off?



In fact being able to disable non-PC resolutions would be the best.


----------



## kennyparker1337

DSR set to 2.25x 25% smoothness.

The native resolution for me is 1440p but the first 1080p image is provided for those who are 1080p native.
Right-click each image and open in new tab. Toggle between tabs for comparison.

*With AA*


*Without AA*


----------



## toyzruz

Hi guys,
got the same problem here... My ASUS PB278Q is able to deal with 80hz refresh rate at the native resolution (1440p).
So far so goo...
DSR always switches back to 60 hz refresh rate in game UNLESS I select the DSR resolution for my desktop as well in the nv driver section!

Stumbled over the issue a while ago... tried to have 1080p on my desktop an [email protected] in game. That didnt work neither.

Ideas?


----------



## Darius510

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toyzruz*
> 
> Hi guys,
> got the same problem here... My ASUS PB278Q is able to deal with 80hz refresh rate at the native resolution (1440p).
> So far so goo...
> DSR always switches back to 60 hz refresh rate in game UNLESS I select the DSR resolution for my desktop as well in the nv driver section!
> 
> Stumbled over the issue a while ago... tried to have 1080p on my desktop an [email protected] in game. That didnt work neither.
> 
> Ideas?


That happens for me in some games, but not all. Only solution I can find is switch the resolution/refresh rate manually.


----------



## omari79

So just buy a 24"-27" 1080p. Screen. apply DSR and you've got yourself a very cheap 4k screen..

Provided Games with 4k textures are atleast 1-2 years away

No?


----------



## kennyparker1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omari79*
> 
> So just buy a 24"-27" 1080p. Screen. apply DSR and you've got yourself a very cheap 4k screen..
> 
> Provided Games with 4k textures are atleast 1-2 years away
> 
> No?


Perfect plan... accept the 4K is downscaled.
A 1080p monitor will still only display 1080p worth of pixels.


----------



## omari79

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kennyparker1337*
> 
> Perfect plan... accept the 4K is downscaled.
> A 1080p monitor will still only display 1080p worth of pixels.


But the image quality will be very close because of the lack of 4k text no?


----------



## rusky1

Tried DSR with Counter Strike Global Offensive and Diablo 3. D3 gets very blurred when there's any movement. CS:GO has UI sizing issues and doesn't look much better than 1080p.

I'll wait till the next driver release to try it again. So far, I'm not impressed at all.


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rusky1*
> 
> Tried DSR with Counter Strike Global Offensive and Diablo 3. D3 gets very blurred when there's any movement. CS:GO has UI sizing issues and doesn't look much better than 1080p.
> 
> I'll wait till the next driver release to try it again. So far, I'm not impressed at all.


It is a beautiful monitor, no doubt; although it could be inherent to the monitor. PLS panels switch pixel hue very slowly.


You could be noticing that dithering effect - lcd ghosting & reverse ghosting errors get worse at smaller gradient changes - because otherwise, it seems like a proper 10 bit panel which should actually accentuate the colour precision more than a contemporary.


----------



## jmcosta

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rusky1*
> 
> Tried DSR with Counter Strike Global Offensive and Diablo 3. D3 gets very blurred when there's any movement. CS:GO has UI sizing issues and doesn't look much better than 1080p.
> 
> I'll wait till the next driver release to try it again. So far, I'm not impressed at all.


blame the game not the driver lol
some games just suck for high reso, with or without downscale
blur is another story..


----------



## rusky1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtcn77*
> 
> It is a beautiful monitor, no doubt; although it could be inherent to the monitor. PLS panels switch pixel hue very slowly.
> 
> 
> You could be noticing that dithering effect - lcd ghosting & reverse ghosting errors get worse at smaller gradient changes - because otherwise, it seems like a proper 10 bit panel which should actually accentuate the colour precision more than a contemporary.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jmcosta*
> 
> blame the game not the driver lol
> some games just suck for high reso, with or without downscale
> blur is another story..


Very possible. End result remains the same, I'm going to give developers some time to patch their games/drivers before I try it again.


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rusky1*
> 
> Very possible. End result remains the same, I'm going to give developers some time to patch their games/drivers before I try it again.


I suggest you retry with frame limiter at 44 fps, mind you that is a photographer's panel without overdrive.


----------



## Seid Dark

I tried 1440p and 4K DSR in Borderlands: The Pre-sequel and results were awful. Picture actually looked a lot more aliased, is anyone having similar experience? I tried different smoothing levels but nothing helped, had to go back to 1080p.


----------



## The Source

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seid Dark*
> 
> I tried 1440p and 4K DSR in Borderlands: The Pre-sequel and results were awful. Picture actually looked a lot more aliased, is anyone having similar experience? I tried different smoothing levels but nothing helped, had to go back to 1080p.


It's working quite well for me in Borderlands Pre Sequel. 33% smoothing.


----------



## Arturo.Zise

I seem to be having drama's with screen tearing when I try 4K or 3K DSR in most games. Even with Adaptive V-Sync in the driver active, and also switching V-sync in the game on. If I drop down to 2880x1620 it seems to stop. Any ideas?


----------



## Shadow11377

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Yeah. SSAA is best form of AA and not that hard to run for older games or less demanding games. I want to see how much difference in makes in Dota 2.


SSAA should in theory be the best and almost always is, but sometimes it just isn't. This is usually due to badly designed games though and not really the fault of Supersampling.
For example here it is in _Alice: Madness Returns_ screwing everything up. This game is known to be quite awful so it is not really a surprise. It did do true Anti-Aliasing as expected, but it also blurred the picture like FXAA does.

Screenshot 1 - Native Resolution
Screenshot 1 - 4x4 Supersampling
Screenshot 2 - Native Resolution
Screenshot 2 - 4x4 Supersampling

My theory as to *why* this is so awful is that the game might be capped out on max resolution and along the way to render at the 7680x4320 needed for 1080p 4x4 SS, it got stuck at something like 2560x1440 or something and up-scaled the remainder then downsampled the up-scaled blurry garbage.

Not a flaw with SSAA. Just bad game design.
EA makes some really good flawless games btw. Did I mention this particular game shipped with an FPS cap of 30 and no option for Windowed mode?


----------



## Shadow11377

DSR is a pretty awesome thing to have supported by NVIDIA but I'd still rather have devs add Supersampling options to their games natively.

Why? Because UI blurring is never fun. Is it better than aliasing? Yeah but still not the ideal solution.
I'll definitely use it but I hope this doesn't lead to even less games supporting proper AA.

Also, it's kind of funny to see all of these 3840x2160 resolution screenshots linked.
That's one of the flaws with it.. have fun trying to record when DSR is enabled guys, you're gonna be recording at 4x the resolution.


----------



## The Source

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arturo.Zise*
> 
> I seem to be having drama's with screen tearing when I try 4K or 3K DSR in most games. Even with Adaptive V-Sync in the driver active, and also switching V-sync in the game on. If I drop down to 2880x1620 it seems to stop. Any ideas?


If you are dropping below 60fps which you probably are, it will tear. Adaptive vsync doesn't work very well at all in most games. You can try triple buffering as well as capping the frame rate to 30 or 60.

If you're gaming on a TV which you might be, I don't have any experience with those. It could also be one of the many bugs DSR has right now. I notice slight tearing in borderlands even with in game vsync and framerate smoothing enabled with dsr.


----------



## Shadow11377

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arturo.Zise*
> 
> I seem to be having drama's with screen tearing when I try 4K or 3K DSR in most games. Even with Adaptive V-Sync in the driver active, and also switching V-sync in the game on. If I drop down to 2880x1620 it seems to stop. Any ideas?


The driver should be overriding your in-game settings so combining them does nothing.
Disable Adaptive from the control panel and turn it to "Application Controlled" or regular VSYNC and see how that works out.


----------



## mtcn77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadow11377*
> 
> SSAA should in theory be the best and almost always is, but sometimes it just isn't. This is usually due to badly designed games though and not really the fault of Supersampling.
> For example here it is in _Alice: Madness Returns_ screwing everything up. This game is known to be quite awful so it is not really a surprise. It did do true Anti-Aliasing as expected, but it also blurred the picture like FXAA does.
> 
> Screenshot 1 - Native Resolution
> Screenshot 1 - 4x4 Supersampling
> Screenshot 2 - Native Resolution
> Screenshot 2 - 4x4 Supersampling
> 
> My theory as to *why* this is so awful is that the game might be capped out on max resolution and along the way to render at the 7680x4320 needed for 1080p 4x4 SS, it got stuck at something like 2560x1440 or something and up-scaled the remainder then downsampled the up-scaled blurry garbage.
> 
> Not a flaw with SSAA. Just bad game design.
> EA makes some really good flawless games btw. Did I mention this particular game shipped with an FPS cap of 30 and no option for Windowed mode?


The blur you are ascribing to might be related to the difference between ogssaa and sgssaa. I think Nvidia offers a version of ssaa which is much closer to downsampling(ogssaa) which does this. It can also happen in previous gen radeons due to lod alteration. Sparsegrid ssaa eliminates this blur.
You should try adding smaa into the mix. It would define texture edges unlike any other filter - ssaa only interpolates inbetween while smaa sets apart across pixel data.


----------



## s1rrah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadow11377*
> 
> Also, it's kind of funny to see all of these 3840x2160 resolution screenshots linked.
> That's one of the flaws with it.. have fun trying to record when DSR is enabled guys, you're gonna be recording at 4x the resolution.


I've used shadowplay to record at 5120 x 2880 quite extensively; works perfectly and frames are always 75+ in borderlands 2/pre sequel maxxed ... and even in Alien: Isolation I can maintain 60+ while recording...

Here's the final boss fight in Borderlands Pre Sequel at 5120 x 2880 ...

Select the 2160p option at youtube ... seems that's what it resamples my 2880p video too ...

Framerates are evident in the capture (upper left) ...

That's running x2 980's and a 2700K @ 5ghz ... two 600gb Velociraptor drives in RAID 0 ...

..


----------



## Shadow11377

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtcn77*
> 
> The blur you are ascribing to might be related to the difference between ogssaa and sgssaa. I think Nvidia offers a version of ssaa which is much closer to downsampling(ogssaa) which does this. It can also happen in previous gen radeons due to lod alteration. Sparsegrid ssaa eliminates this blur.
> You should try adding smaa into the mix. It would define texture edges unlike any other filter - ssaa only interpolates inbetween while smaa sets apart across pixel data.


I'll give SGSSAA a try, though I haven't had an issue with other games using the normal 4x4 Supersampling. The blur I've experienced with it is strictly isolated to Madness Returns.

Here it is in WoW doing a great job, actually _improving_ texture quality a bit.
*No Anti-Aliasing*
*8x MSAA*
*4x4 SSAA*


----------



## davtylica

I have yet to see anyone inquire on a surround setup while using the Nvidia DSR function. It seems completely plausible given that it is supposed to be "Dynamic". Has anyone here tested DSR on a multiple monitor system?

I'm very curious as i intend to utilize a 3D Vision surround setup using dual 720P projectors. From there i would apply 1.5x DSR for a somewhat crisper 3D Vision surround gaming experience while maintaining a playable framrate. In Theory....

I'm surprised this isn't a more discussed scenario


----------



## Arturo.Zise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *The Source*
> 
> If you are dropping below 60fps which you probably are, it will tear. Adaptive vsync doesn't work very well at all in most games. You can try triple buffering as well as capping the frame rate to 30 or 60.
> 
> If you're gaming on a TV which you might be, I don't have any experience with those. It could also be one of the many bugs DSR has right now. I notice slight tearing in borderlands even with in game vsync and framerate smoothing enabled with dsr.


I have triple buffering active. V-sync setting works perfect when gaming at 1080p. It's only when I activate 3x and 4x DSR that I get the tearing. Happens on my 27" monitor and my TV. It's basically a horizontal "ripple" that seems to start in the middle of the screen and scroll up when moving left or right in games. Doesn't happen when I set 2x DSR (1620p) or 1080p native. Not all games have this effect though. Kind of annoying.


----------



## Oubadah

..


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadow11377*
> 
> DSR is a pretty awesome thing to have supported by NVIDIA but I'd still rather have devs add Supersampling options to their games natively.
> 
> Why? Because UI blurring is never fun. Is it better than aliasing? Yeah but still not the ideal solution.
> I'll definitely use it but I hope this doesn't lead to even less games supporting proper AA.
> 
> Also, it's kind of funny to see all of these 3840x2160 resolution screenshots linked.
> That's one of the flaws with it.. have fun trying to record when DSR is enabled guys, you're gonna be recording at 4x the resolution.


You can just downscale before encoding, using something like lanczos filter in OBS before passing it to x264 or nvenc


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## toyzruz

Is there any recommendation out there how smoothness and dsr level have to relate to each other?


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## Lass3

None of the 5 newer games I've installed worked with DSR..


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## TFL Replica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lass3*
> 
> None of the 5 newer games I've installed worked with DSR..


Could you list them?


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## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toyzruz*
> 
> Is there any recommendation out there how smoothness and dsr level have to relate to each other?


More awkward ratios probably need more smoothing.

2 scales very well into 1 and i play some games at 4k with like 15% smoothing. Didn't try less.
1.5 and 1.33 scale ok, you probably need more smoothing the lower ratio that you go. Below 1.33x i don't think it's worth it


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## revro

i used dsr in star citizen pre alpha client. worked nice. tough it halved my fps from 40-45 to 18-23 on a gaming g1 gtx970 @1440p









since 1440p is 1.5 less of 4k you need 1.5*1.5 so factor of 2.25


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## WhiteCrane

I will probably never own a GPU powerful enough to do this. I could barely play Ryse on medium settings. (I'm a frame-rate whore)


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WhiteCrane*
> 
> I will probably never own a GPU powerful enough to do this. I could barely play Ryse on medium settings. (I'm a frame-rate whore)


*cough* gtx 990ti on 1080p screen *cough*


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## phenom01

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> *cough* gtx 990ti on 1080p screen *cough*


This is exactly what I am wating for to replace my 770's. Mmmm 4k downsample at 120hz strobed. Yes plz sign me up.


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## Cyro999

Quote:


> 770's


I'm on 144hz/120(strobed) too - but SLI? I find AFR (alternate frame rendering) latency to be annoying >.>


----------



## phenom01

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> I'm on 144hz/120(strobed) too - but SLI? I find AFR (alternate frame rendering) latency to be annoying >.>


I dont use AFR.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phenom01*
> 
> I dont use AFR.


How is support for none-AFR? It's something that i extremely rarely hear even mentioned


----------



## phenom01

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> How is support for none-AFR? It's something that i extremely rarely hear even mentioned


It has worked fine for me on every game I have tryed. Which is limited atm. Just Got FF13, CS:GO, AC4, and Middle Earth installed at the moment. I will try it over the next few days with some more games. Got about 15 more blockbuster games on steam and (gasp!) Origin, and Uplay I will try havnt tryed it with them.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phenom01*
> 
> It has worked fine for me on every game I have tryed. Which is limited atm. Just Got FF13, CS:GO, AC4, and Middle Earth installed at the moment. I will try it over the next few days with some more games. Got about 15 more blockbuster games on steam and (gasp!) Origin, and Uplay I will try havnt tryed it with them.


How is scaling, what are you using exactly?


----------



## toyzruz

I own an ASUS PB278Q... Dishonored and PLanetside 2 are way better with dsr set to 2x


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toyzruz*
> 
> I own an ASUS PB278Q... Dishonored and PLanetside 2 are way better with dsr set to 2x


Planetside 2 has better scaling than DSR built in. You can edit it with a config file


----------



## toyzruz

Hadnaconfig file a while ago... I thought that the last patches had made a config file obsolete....
Tell me pls what to edit in my comfig file


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## Frankzro

Ummmmmmmmm isn't this what TVs are already kinda doing especially with 120hz-240hz? .... Ummm I don't know about this. This seems like it would like blow up a TV if you were using it as a monitor with this thing.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *toyzruz*
> 
> Hadnaconfig file a while ago... I thought that the last patches had made a config file obsolete....
> Tell me pls what to edit in my comfig file


It's resolution scale. For 1080p to 1620p for example, you'd set it to i think 1.5 with the way it was written. I have not looked at it when i played recently, but it let you manually set the resolution scale slider past 100%, to whatever you wanted pretty much. It was very good scaling.


----------



## toyzruz

Nice. Thx. Will compare dsr and in game scaling during my next bio lab battle ;-)


----------



## davtylica

Ok.... I ask again. Is anyone using DSR feature with 3D Vision surround or a multi display setup? Anyone using DSR on 21:9 format?


----------



## SpeedyVT

cheaper cost effective AA did it with my console emulators and you don't need a fancy brand


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpeedyVT*
> 
> cheaper cost effective AA did it with my console emulators and you don't need a fancy brand


It's not easy to make a ton of games internally render at 3840x2160 or 5120x2880 while maintaining 144hz refresh rate and cursor rendering.. until now


----------



## kiernian

Hey guys. I have Gigabyte Gtx970 and Asus 248qe 144hz monitor. When activate DSR, (2K or 4K) screen get too blurry (like 720p) and i can get more fps(for all games, Bf4, LoL ext..) I changed my blurry %0 but its stiil too much blury. I tried all nvidia drivers but its still doesnt work. What can i do? help me.


----------

