# [25] Human Immortality Project Announced. (VIDEO)



## frickfrock999

http://2045.com/press/
Quote:


> As reported by Discovery News, Russian media mogul named Dmitry Itskov formally announced his intentions to *disembody our conscious minds and upload them to a hologram (an avatar) by the year 2045*. With this news he outlined a plan to achieve immortality, removing the human mind from the physical constraints presented by the biological human body. In his latest grasp to achieve, he in a letter to the members of the Forbes World's Billionaire's List, offered up that immortality to the world's 1,266 richest people.


Finally, one of humanity's greatest problems is being solved.
The problem is, people simply aren't living long enough. The meager lifespan we occupy isn't enough to reach our full potential. The lengthier our existence, the more advanced the entire species becomes.

And we'll finally get a Dreamcast 2.


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## mott555

So would it actually transfer you into the hologram, or would you still die but there would be a hologram that acts like you?


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## Snowmen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mott555*
> 
> So would it actually transfer you into the hologram, or would you still die but there would be a hologram that acts like you?


Nope. You exist as your conciousness. What he plans to do is to transfer that conciousness to a third party body. Also: Hooray for the Dreamcast 2!


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## rivaldog

If he makes our bodies holograms though, how will we interact with anything? Usually, science fiction flicks and shows depict holograms as something that is incorporeal, and they can't interact with any normal objects physically.


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## Zalezm

I don't know how they plan to create an artificial brain when today's supercomputers cannot even accomplish mimicking that of a mouse! I understand that future technology will of course be more potent and have vast more capabilities than today's but still I highly doubt this will see its goals met.


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## snoball

Did anyone else immediately think this?


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## Acroma

I see massive problems with the human part of us being able to deal with being stuck in a non-human body. It might just drive people crazy.


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## Nutty

I don't want to live forever, I want to eventually die.


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## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Acroma*
> 
> I see massive problems with the human part of us being able to deal with being stuck in a non-human body. It might just drive people crazy.


One of the major keystones of being human is the ability to adapt.
While I don't doubt the initial experience will be jarring, the human race has proven it's capabilities countless times before.
We'll do it again.


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## Atomfix

Thing is, would we be able to sence that we are in a different body? have self control etc, I feel alive now, but the same me would get totally transfered to a new body, and me myself will die?

confused.... blabbbing on about rubbish I don't even know now


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## adridu59

Think about DeusEx Human Revolution, except that it won't be just mods for the human body.


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## Sazexa

One of the ideas was to take the physical brain, use nanobots to keep it in good health and nourished well, and have it live within a robot.

This would be immortality for the original being. Which (I'm not saying immortality is a good thing) would probably be better off than regular, biological, immortality, since robots don't need to dry-up resources (or at least as quickly) as a living human body does. No food needed, no water.

Is this still scary? Quite.


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## pcnewb312

Heh. Sort of reminds me of that Outer Limits episode I saw years ago where some alien race was supposed to be teleporting people to their home world but in fact were just scanning their body and sending the 1's and 0's to their home world where an exact copy was made.

The original person was of course killed and the copy became the "teleported" person. I might be wrong on some of the details of this particular episode but it was something like that.


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## lordikon

I'm all for a push for this kind of stuff, however I don't see this happening in 40 years. Anyone seen Back to the Future 2 in 1985, how many people back then thought that in 30 years we'd actually have things like hoverboards, hovercars, hydrators that could cook a pizza in 3 seconds, etc. Technology has advanced quite a bit in those 30 years, but do we really think we'll have fully holographic humans with a real consciousness living among us? I highly doubt it. Maybe in 75-80 years..., maybe.


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## .:hybrid:.

This is awesome, I just don't understand the hologram thing, I think we will stay as robots.


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## undeadhunter

K where can I download the beta of this game? oh wait.... lol


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## Fuell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59*
> 
> Think about DeusEx Human Revolution, except that it won't be just mods for the human body.


More like Ghost in The Shell: Stand Alone Complex. This is almost 1:1 what that show is based on... Interesting. But like that of "teleportation" where people have questions about you being transported, or simply being copied while the original you died. I can see this being an issue here that you could not 100% prove either way. Even if all your memories and information stored in the brain can be copied and pasted, is it you, or a consciousness similar to you due to having all your experiences and memories to shape it like you had... I would not want to be an early adopter of this, no matter how freaking cool it seems.


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## scatmanwfm

Hmm.. can I come back as robot Elvis?


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## cuddaloreappu

Not yet found a solution to grow hair on bald head but...............OMG


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## james_ant

I don't see how this hologram will become anything more than a copy of what was once alive. We don't even know if the mind can be transferred, the human body isn't like a hard drive you can just copy files around to a flash drive.


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## zooterboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *james_ant*
> 
> I don't see how this hologram will become anything more than a copy of what was once alive. We don't even know if the mind can be transferred, the human body isn't like a hard drive you can just copy files around to a flash drive.


The human brain quite probably is though.


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## Darren9

I think there's more hope for combating/eliminating cell\DNA degradation than actually transplanting conciousness into a different "vessel", this seems too far into pure science fiction.


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## Mach 5

No thanks, I like my freedom.


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## adjas

Death is what makes life worth living.


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## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adjas*
> 
> Death is what makes life worth living.


What makes life living is purpose. The only creatures who "live to die" are lemmings.


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## dealio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fuell*
> 
> More like Ghost in The Shell: Stand Alone Complex. This is almost 1:1 what that show is based on... Interesting. But like that of "teleportation" where people have questions about you being transported, or simply being copied while the original you died. I can see this being an issue here that you could not 100% prove either way. Even if all your memories and information stored in the brain can be copied and pasted, is it you, or a consciousness similar to you due to having all your experiences and memories to shape it like you had... I would not want to be an early adopter of this, no matter how freaking cool it seems.


we are copies of ourselves already. cellular lifespan is not very long. the oldest are bone cells, lasting around 25 years, other types don't even stick around for a day.

regardless, also not early adopting


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## merlinx76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snowmen*
> 
> Nope. You exist as your conciousness. What he plans to do is to transfer that conciousness to a third party body. Also: Hooray for the Dreamcast 2!


I would argue that it would just be a copy of your consciousness. The copy would think it was you, nobody could prove that it isn't you because it would act like you and be an exact copy, but you would be dead.


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## adjas

lemmings are cute


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## DiNet

Russian scams are evolving...


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## AbdullahG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *merlinx76*
> 
> I would argue that it would just be a copy of your consciousness. The copy would think it was you, nobody could prove that it isn't you because it would act like you and be an exact copy, but you would be dead.


So technically it isn't me, just a copy of my exact personality, right? Interesting nonetheless.


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## Sir Beregond

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AbdullahG*
> 
> So technically it isn't me, just a copy of my exact personality, right?


If that's the case, I'll pass.


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## serp777

Funny that these avatars seem exactly like Cybermen from Doctor who.


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## Big-J

The reason why you feel alive is because electrical signals are sent to your brain from your fingertips, the weight of gravity pulls your flesh down etc. etc. whatever. It's all electrical impulses including vision all pulses. They can be sent to a brain once we figure out how they are sent and yes your brain can sit in a box and you would think you are actually doing all of those things.


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## Shimme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sir Beregond*
> 
> If that's the case, I'll pass.


But for all intents and purposes it would be you - it would think like you, act like you, have your experiences and emotions...

Anyone else thinking of Hunter's Run?


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## voxox

I was expecting someone to reply to my previous post.









ME: I refuse to scroll up and read voxox's post







\

EDIT: NVM moderator deleted the post.


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## merlinx76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shimme*
> 
> But for all intents and purposes it would be you...


Except where it counts... since you would more than likely just be dead.


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## Shimme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *merlinx76*
> 
> Except where it counts... since you would more than likely just be dead.


No, I mean that your body would be dead but your mind would still exist. The essence of who you are, your personality and memories, would go on.


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## General121

This totally beats YOLO.


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## Ploppytheman

This is one of the worst possible ideas ever. Imagine an immortal dictator. And this will only be affordable to the super rich, and will have their wealth be kept by one person for even longer. This means that power will be controlled by less people for longer and we all know what that means. I mean maybe if you were only rewarded life on your own merits such as being a dedicated scientist, doctor, or other person who contributes a lot to society. Im sure that would be a system to corrupt as well though since money buys everything and how much would a billionaire pay for immortality? I mean look at black market organ sales. We already sell life in a literal fashion let alone all the ways we trade life for currency so we dont die today. That is what needs to go.

Also the timeline seems way too short for this.
Also copying yourself does not mean immortality. You die. Your copy lives on. That is not even remotely the same thing.

What we really need to do is create robots or basic AI to do menial jobs. This way humans con focus on intellectual pursuits their whole lives rather than have to work crappy jobs. I mean if you look at the potential for humanities processing power and how much is wasted on crap jobs, like janitor for instance. If everyone could go to school and study and come out being at least somewhat able to help in more advanced jobs that would be great. I know a lot of people are stupid and/or lazy so not everyone can be a top scientist. But having a Lab Assistant instead of a Janitor is a big step up. And there just needs to be better eduacational setups for everyone so that all that lost potential of human processing power isnt wasted. My friend has to work retail so he can live and the only way out is to also go to school at the same time, or join the military. This is a huge waste of resources to have people who are otherwise intelligent work jobs like retail. Sure there are a lot of idiots in retail too but maybe if those idiots were given a better education they wouldn't be idiots, at least some portion of them.

Accumulation of wealth should not be the main reason for people to live their lives, whether thats a billionaire businessman or someone to poor to afford food. Its basically Pavlov's hieracrchy of needs and we have the vast majority of poeple focusing on lower tiers and never self actualizing.

There is some movie.. think its called Gattaca that has normal humans vs elite gene controlled humans. Thats what this would be.


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## Landon Heat

I'll not be in my prime in 30 years. i dont want to live forever in my late 50s that unless i get a new body lul


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## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Landon Heat*
> 
> I'll not be in my prime in 30 years. i dont want to live forever in my late 50s lul


Just cryogenically freeze yourself 'til then.


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## ACHILEE5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock99*
> 
> Just cryogenically freeze yourself 'til then.


But doesn't freezing wreck meat








So that's never going to work


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## voxox

Given the free opportunity, have you stopped and possibly considered the fact that this is completely impossible?

Immortality can NOT and will NOT happen unless there is an external force/being that can transform human body to one.

I found the part where they show human brain transplanted to a robotic rig to be quite amusing. The brain will still die because you can't preserve it forever while it is functioning. I guess they didn't calculate that in.

This is what I call pure imagination and worthless research that will never take place.

Instead of spending money on the fantasy, why don't they put that money in education, schooling and job creation? We have hollywood for fantasy and movies.

Maybe this is sponsored by hollywod companies after all?


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## theyedi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ACHILEE5*
> 
> But doesn't freezing wreck meat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So that's never going to work


Traditional freezing does, but they've worked on specific formulas that don't cause cellular damage upon freezing. However, damage still occurs when the cells are thawed, so that's the current area of study.

As for this plan... it's way too ambitious. It's taken decades to get head-mounted tracking displays to work on a commercial level, so to seriously expect any sort of Android in a decade is laughable. It's a certainty that at some point something of this form will exist, just not in the time-frame specified in the video. So, I'll be freezing myself till then.


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## assaulth3ro911

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mott555*
> 
> So would it actually transfer you into the hologram, or would you still die but there would be a hologram that acts like you?


It has plagued me for so long, teleporting... if the device does not transport your atoms and just rebuilds them, you will die... and NO ONE will ever know. Ever time you teleport, you will die, and a new one is built. So is it worth it? And no one will know... No one.


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## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball*
> 
> Did anyone else immediately think this?


Time was money iirc... can;t quite remember the name of the movie though.


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## Forrester

is this project for real or is it some hoax?


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## ACHILEE5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Time was money iirc... can;t quite remember the name of the movie though.


*In Time,* you might remember


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## adjas

If there is even a whiff of immortality really occurring in my time, I'd be the first to start a revolution.

Screw that, I'm already sick of the 0.001% of this world, watching them try to live forever would push me and many others over the edge.

Remember, you might try to be immortal, but you ain't omnipotent.


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## Fateful_Ikkou

I've always wanted to have my brain transplanted into a cybernetic body like in Ghost in the Shell, I may just get the chance in my lifetime.


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## merlinx76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shimme*
> 
> No, I mean that your body would be dead but your mind would still exist. The essence of who you are, your personality and memories, would go on.


A copy of your mind... A copy of your personality and memories.

If they could possibly digitize your consciousness, then they could transfer it to multiple electronic brains. Then your mind would be in multiple brains at once and they would all live on, each on believing they were you. Which one is the real you? None of them. It certainly couldn't be all of them...The scary thing is that nobody would ever know that it's not you. People would be lining up for their executions.

It's like if I send you a file. You are only getting a copy, I can't send you the original. The closest I could come to that is to delete the original.


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## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *merlinx76*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Shimme*
> 
> No, I mean that your body would be dead but your mind would still exist. The essence of who you are, your personality and memories, would go on.
> 
> 
> 
> A copy of your mind... A copy of your personality and memories.
> 
> If they could possibly digitize your consciousness, then they could transfer it to multiple electronic brains. Then your mind would be in multiple brains at once and they would all live on, each on believing they were you. Which one is the real you? None of them. It certainly couldn't be all of them...The scary thing is that nobody would ever know that it's not you. People would be lining up for their executions.
> 
> It's like if send you a file. You are only getting a copy, I can't send you the original. The closest I could come to that is to delete the original.
Click to expand...

What happens if you use a memory stick?

And that's basically what they're trying to do here.


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## Sazexa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *voxox*
> 
> Given the free opportunity, have you stopped and possibly considered the fact that this is completely impossible?
> Immortality can NOT and will NOT happen unless there is an external force/being that can transform human body to one.
> I found the part where they show human brain transplanted to a robotic rig to be quite amusing. The brain will still die because you can't preserve it forever while it is functioning. I guess they didn't calculate that in.
> This is what I call pure imagination and worthless research that will never take place.
> Instead of spending money on the fantasy, why don't they put that money in education, schooling and job creation? We have hollywood for fantasy and movies.
> Maybe this is sponsored by hollywod companies after all?


In the instance you referenced, about transplanting the actual brain (thus instead of your "conscience" living on, you physically do) your brain would be kept preserved, healthy, and monitored by nanobots.

But whose to say those nanobots won't be able to scan/read thoughts and send them without your knowing to some data-base collection, or actually allow for control over you?


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## merlinx76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> What happens if you use a memory stick?
> And that's basically what they're trying to do here.


No. Mailing a memory stick is like putting your human brain into the avatar. (if we are referring to the memory stick as being the original)


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## Fateful_Ikkou

Hmm, I can imagine people getting transplanted into anime like bodies or even anthro bodies.


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## TheBlindDeafMute

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock99*
> 
> One of the major keystones of being human is the ability to adapt.
> While I don't doubt the initial experience will be jarring, the human race has proven it's capabilities countless times before.
> We'll do it again.


If you actually try to imagine the process of waking up in a cold steel shell, where your brain and "body" are connected, and thousands of impulses and inputs from the "body's" computer are slamming into your brain at once, and you have no sense of connection to your shell... its actually quite terrifying. Thinking of the process, and then actually living it would be insanely scary. Suicide rate for these avatars would be substantially high. I don't think jarring is the correct word.
Part of having a brain and being human, is being human. Once you take that element, and the feelings that you have learned *since birth* at their very fundamental value, and throw out everything at once, I doubt the brain and the personality that got transplanted with it would be able to cope with all that. The brain is not a computer, and cannot be transplanted back and forth between hardware like a hard drive.

There is much more going on here than people realize. When you are born, you are born human, and learn how to make that work your whole life. To try such a radical transformation at the adult stage would be almost impossible. Add to the fact that the brain would have to be transferred with all the nerve endings throughout your whole body attached to the cyborg, and that the nerve endings would have to be fused to the cyborg body, the amount of pain upon awakening would be literally unbearable to the psyche of the mind being transported.

Another thing that this brings up is: what is your control over yourself if you are immortal? Meaning that you purposely don't do things that are not safe, due to harming yourself. If you take away that barrier, and know that you cannot be harmed, and live forever......... idk. Really scary


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## StormX2

YAY!

I want to Exist for eternity!

Want to watch everythign that happens to this planet , I want to see the downfall of man, or the rise of something else

More important, I want superb Immortality, i wish to watch our Sun Destroy our System, and I want to Ride the Pulse like a wave and use that energy to travel through the empty regions of space forever until I either Run into something, get pulled by somethings gravity, or hell, even if I just keep going, why not =)

I am deperate to know what will happen to everything in the eventual "end". will i travel so far that there is nothing? Or will I be Slammed back into the middle with a Big Cruch leading to a new Big Bang ????????

I wish to exist forever

unfortunately, this isnt quite capable of that =(


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## merlinx76

I can't take a memory stick and turn it into 2 memory sticks. But I can copy the info off of a memory stick and put that copy somewhere else. But the contents of the stick will still be in it. (unless i delete it i.e. kill it)


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## .:hybrid:.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adjas*
> 
> Death is what makes life worth living.


mmm generic empty quotes that sound meaningful








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBlindDeafMute*
> 
> If you actually try to imagine the process of waking up in a cold steel shell, where your brain and "body" are connected, and thousands of impulses and inputs from the "body's" computer are slamming into your brain at once, and you have no sense of connection to your shell... its actually quite terrifying. Thinking of the process, and then actually living it would be insanely scary. Suicide rate for these avatars would be substantially high. I don't think jarring is the correct word.
> Part of having a brain and being human, is being human. Once you take that element, and the feelings that you have learned *since birth* at their very fundamental value, and throw out everything at once, I doubt the brain and the personality that got transplanted with it would be able to cope with all that. The brain is not a computer, and cannot be transplanted back and forth between hardware like a hard drive.
> There is much more going on here than people realize. When you are born, you are born human, and learn how to make that work your whole life. To try such a radical transformation at the adult stage would be almost impossible. Add to the fact that the brain would have to be transferred with all the nerve endings throughout your whole body attached to the cyborg, and that the nerve endings would have to be fused to the cyborg body, the amount of pain upon awakening would be literally unbearable to the psyche of the mind being transported.
> Another thing that this brings up is: what is your control over yourself if you are immortal? Meaning that you purposely don't do things that are not safe, due to harming yourself. If you take away that barrier, and know that you cannot be harmed, and live forever......... idk. Really scary


You sound awfully sure of yourself for something that has never been done before.

Impulses and inputs don't 'slam' into our brain, in fact I imagine a robot body would have substantially less inputs then the human body. We can feel every cell on our skin, a robot body doesn't need that.

Sure it would take time getting used to, but hey, your immortal, who cares about time?


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## doomlord52

Seems to me that the options actual get WORSE as you go along the time-line.

As is, you can't make a proper consciousness transfer - you could make a copy. There is no logical way to make a cut-paste action on the brain that isn't physically moving the brain. Hence, with options C and D, you still technically die, and a robot copy of you continues on. Option B makes the most sense out of them (which makes no sense), as it would still technically be _your_ mind doing stuff. The problem is, the brain DOES burn out eventually, as with any component in the body.

Basically, dumb idea is dumb. Instead of trying to make copies, try and figure out how to STOP cells from not copying themselves after about 50 times. Once you do that, you've got regenerative powers that dont stop, and you'd essentially be at your prime (20-something) forever. That would actually be pretty cool (no one actually WANTS to have an old body).


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## Pendulum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fateful_Ikkou*
> 
> I've always wanted to have my brain transplanted into a cybernetic body like in Ghost in the Shell, I may just get the chance in my lifetime.


I was thinking about something similar the other day.
Now I see this article...









I just don't see this happening for another century, if it does, it'll be millions of dollars for something like this, regardless of what they say.


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## merlinx76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Seems to me that the options actual get WORSE as you go along the time-line.
> As is, you can't make a proper consciousness transfer - you could make a copy. There is no logical way to make a cut-paste action on the brain that isn't physically moving the brain. Hence, with options C and D, you still technically die, and a robot copy of you continues on. Option B makes the most sense out of them (which makes no sense), as it would still technically be _your_ mind doing stuff. The problem is, the brain DOES burn out eventually, as with any component in the body.
> Basically, dumb idea is dumb. Instead of trying to make copies, try and figure out how to STOP cells from not copying themselves after about 50 times. Once you do that, you've got regenerative powers that dont stop, and you'd essentially be at your prime (20-something) forever. That would actually be pretty cool (no one actually WANTS to have an old body).












Well said.


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## Murlocke

There would be no way to prove that it's YOU that is still living. Chances are you die when you die, then your clone/dupe/whatever you want to call it is an exact copy of you.. however it's not you. It's someone with the exact same memory as you, so it would think "wow that worked amazing", but YOU are still dead and that person thinks they were you.

There would be no way to prove this system works.. because it would seem to work even when it's actually not. The only person that would know that it didn't work, is the one that's dead.

It's the same concept as teleportation, chances are the person that steps in would die, and the person on the other side is just an exact dupe, but it's NOT the person the stepped in originally. The person on the exit side would think "hey, that worked amazingly", and would share the exact same memory as the original person.

The best way to explain it is: If you duped yourself 50 times at the same time, would you control all 50? No they would just be you, and you would still be controlling the original body. The other 50s would be different from you, but just do the exact same things. I highly doubt they find a way to transfer consciousness, and even if they do, there's no way to prove/disprove it.


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## xentrox

Good luck transferring human consciousness.

Can we get a little real here haha. I am all for technology and innovation, exploring the universe and bettering our society.

But I just can't see this kite flying. At least not in 2045. Maybe in 2500.. 3000.. maybe never. I can't say its impossible, my open minded brain knows better than to completely dismiss the idea. But it's just nowhere near as easy and as plausible as they make it sound.

Instead of dumping millions on humanoid robots, we should throw all of our money on research that figures out how to stop our cells from deteriorating and dying.. So we basically remain fresh, remain young.. for as long as we want.

Now that's an idea I can get behind.


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## Helmsdg

Let me just put this right here...



On a side note, the UI is amazing.

--David--


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## Dreamlane

We actually studied this a little bit in my AI course last semester. The concept is known as Mind Uploading, and there is a pretty substantial article about it on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading

I'm not a believer.


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## pow3rtr1p

This is going too far, in my mind. People need to be able to die. This is playing God to the ultimate degree.

When I read Human Immortality Project, I first read it as Human Instrumentality Project.

NERV...


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## General121

Guys I need this to finally hae enough time to find WoWs endgame


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## StormX2

I would take an Old persons Body if it meant true immortality

this thing is just gimmicky

I personally do not want to be a a hologram, thats for sure.


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## merlinx76

If this were to ever be popular, we would have to convince people to stop reproducing. We already have problems with people living too long.


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## pow3rtr1p

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *merlinx76*
> 
> If this were to ever be popular, we would have to convince people to stop reproducing. We already have problems with people living too long.


Too much sex...


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## heweshewes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nutty*
> 
> I don't want to live forever, I want to eventually die.


Who Wants To Live Forever






+1


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## Odyn

... I don't know about you idiots, but I want sex. And lots of it. And with many different hot people over the course of my lifetime. I want to experience an 'accident' eventually. How would we procreate? The senses would technically be uploaded, but there's nothing like a good 'old fashioned' if ya know what I mean.


----------



## General121

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Odyn*
> 
> ... I don't know about you idiots, but I want sex. And lots of it. And with many different hot people over the course of my lifetime. I want to experience an 'accident' eventually. How would we procreate? The senses would technically be uploaded, but there's nothing like a good 'old fashioned' if ya know what I mean.


I hope you look better than your avatar then, good man


----------



## james_ant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zooterboy*
> 
> The human brain quite probably is though.


Even if it is it still doesn't answer how these avatars would be anything more than mere copies.


----------



## merlinx76

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Odyn*
> 
> ... I don't know about you idiots, but I want sex. And lots of it. And with many different hot people over the course of my lifetime. I want to experience an 'accident' eventually. How would we procreate? The senses would technically be uploaded, but there's nothing like a good 'old fashioned' if ya know what I mean.


1) You wouldn't need to procreate since we would live forever

2) We could probably combine DNA and grow a human if we had to.

3) You could procreate before you get uploaded to a robot.

4) You could have crazy robot sex, which would feel better than real life and last as long as you wanted.

5) We wouldn't be making ugly robots. They would look as good as the most attractive people you can imagine. (And feel real)

Yay for crazy robot sex


----------



## john55576

To be human is to be mortal. Secondly, our consciousness or personality is made up of billions of constantly changing patters of neurons being fired from billions of different points to other points.So while we may perceive ourselves as being the same, we are in fact constantly changing from one instant to another. Even as I write this reply, I am not the same consciousness as I was when I began writing this. I perceive this 2045 as nothing more than a interactive picture of one instant of a person's consciousness. Just as a photograph illustrates one instant in time of a person's reflection of photons.


----------



## OwnedINC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> I'm all for a push for this kind of stuff, however I don't see this happening in 40 years. Anyone seen Back to the Future 2 in 1985, how many people back then thought that in 30 years we'd actually have things like hoverboards, hovercars, hydrators that could cook a pizza in 3 seconds, etc. Technology has advanced quite a bit in those 30 years, but do we really think we'll have fully holographic humans with a real consciousness living among us? I highly doubt it. Maybe in 75-80 years..., maybe.


To be fair though, technology does evolve faster as time goes on.
Plus most of those things were more luxury item-esque.


----------



## pow3rtr1p

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *john55576*
> 
> To be human is to be mortal. Secondly, our consciousness or personality is made up of billions of constantly changing patters of neurons being fired from billions of different points to other points.So while we may perceive ourselves as being the same, we are in fact constantly changing from one instant to another. Even as I write this reply, I am not the same consciousness as I was when I began writing this. I perceive this 2045 as nothing more than a interactive picture of one instant of a person's consciousness. Just as a photograph illustrates one instant in time of a person's reflection of photons.


That being said, I like to believe consciousness goes beyond science, honestly. Without getting preachy (and I apologize in advance if it comes off that way) the very idea of consciousness if so much largely than any of us can comprehend or appreciate.

This next part comes from a TED Talk I saw on Netflix a month or so ago...

Our cells are constantly dying and being replaced. Skin cells, for example, every few days. The longest-living cells in our bodies are spinal cord cells, which last for 7 years. Meaning that every 7 years, we are a completely new person than we were 7 years before. If I am physically nothing that I was August 2nd 2005, then what is it that defines "me"? I like to think that consciousness, souls, whatever you want to use to refer to that "thing" that is "us", is much more than what could be programmed and remade.


----------



## StormX2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pow3rtr1p*
> 
> That being said, I like to believe consciousness goes beyond science, honestly. Without getting preachy (and I apologize in advance if it comes off that way) the very idea of consciousness if so much largely than any of us can comprehend or appreciate.
> This next part comes from a TED Talk I saw on Netflix a month or so ago...
> Our cells are constantly dying and being replaced. Skin cells, for example, every few days. The longest-living cells in our bodies are spinal cord cells, which last for 7 years. Meaning that every 7 years, we are a completely new person than we were 7 years before. If I am physically nothing that I was August 2nd 2005, then what is it that defines "me"? I like to think that consciousness, souls, whatever you want to use to refer to that "thing" that is "us", is much more than what could be programmed and remade.


ah I do remember watchign that TED ep. SOme of them are good, others meh.

But that gets you thinking.

I think we are who we think we are due to our memories

if you lost all memory tomorrow. who would you be?

What if No one at all knows who you were, therefore impossible to help you remember who you were, are you then at this point a new Person completely? Or are you still You lol

can get really dumb if you think abou tit too much. Because then, all you would need is to transfer your memories to an AI, and your done. You are You, existing in 2 places at once. and as long as youy include the memory of implanting your memories into the AI, then I think the New You, will know and understand, that it is NOT the original, and hopefullykeeps from replacing you completely with out your consent lol


----------



## oxytone

I laugh at these statements that "life is meaningful and worth living because we are mortal".

Life is meaningless and futile because you are going to die. 21.century is the age of exhaustion and depravity. People do not like their lives, they dont like each other, they dont like themselves. There is so much to life that is beyond what is constructed for the mortal man.

On the actual topic. this is a good reason for WW3. This is the one thing that you cannot sell only to the rich and get away with it. People will not sleep over this.


----------



## pow3rtr1p

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StormX2*
> 
> ah I do remember watchign that TED ep. SOme of them are good, others meh.
> But that gets you thinking.
> I think we are who we think we are due to our memories
> if you lost all memory tomorrow. who would you be?
> What if No one at all knows who you were, therefore impossible to help you remember who you were, are you then at this point a new Person completely? Or are you still You lol
> can get really dumb if you think abou tit too much. Because then, all you would need is to transfer your memories to an AI, and your done. You are You, existing in 2 places at once. and as long as youy include the memory of implanting your memories into the AI, then I think the New You, will know and understand, that it is NOT the original, and hopefullykeeps from replacing you completely with out your consent lol


I dislike the idea of there being another "me" that I have no awareness of or control over. I don't want to know what I could do with no morality...


----------



## Evermind

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pow3rtr1p*
> 
> This is going too far, in my mind. People need to be able to die. This is playing God to the ultimate degree.


This is an extremely short sighted point of view, in my opinion. Assuming that all of this does take place in one form or another, people with your mindset will most likely just be left behind, and people with your same point of view may or may not be ok with it, but again - assuming this all does take place - it will most likely happen anyway whether they are ok or not ok with it.

The human race - or some of them at least - are thinking of ways to try and move forward past our current biological constraints. Some of us do want to expand to other planets, solar systems, galaxies and that is far from possible in our current state. Even moving at near light speed it can take hundreds of thousands of years to reach a nearby "possibly" habitable planet. If we freed ourselves of our biological constraints we could potentially go to any planet with an energy source like a star.

If the above doesn't matter to an individual, then again most likely they will just be left behind and eventually weeded out of existence. They may be ok with that. That is fine.

Assuming that due to these advancements we are able to move on from Earth to other planets, solar systems, galaxies... What reason is there for death? Death can be a good motivator, but it doesn't have to be the only one. Also, you actually would still be able to die, or at least copies of you. Just because you are a robot, does not mean that you are invulnerable.


----------



## alick

This reminds me of a movie or a videogame I saw and played a long time ago what was it again?


----------



## General121

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Evermind*
> 
> This is an extremely short sighted point of view, in my opinion. Assuming that all of this does take place in one form or another, people with your mindset will most likely just be left behind, and people with your same point of view may or may not be ok with it, but again - assuming this all does take place - it will most likely happen anyway whether they are ok or not ok with it.
> The human race - or some of them at least - are thinking of ways to try and move forward past our current biological constraints. Some of us do want to expand to other planets, solar systems, galaxies and that is far from possible in our current state. Even moving at near light speed it can take hundreds of thousands of years to reach a nearby "possibly" habitable planet. If we freed ourselves of our biological constraints we could potentially go to any planet with an energy source like a star.
> If the above doesn't matter to an individual, then again most likely they will just be left behind and eventually weeded out of existence. They may be ok with that. That is fine.
> Assuming that due to these advancements we are able to move on from Earth to other planets, solar systems, galaxies... What reason is there for death? Death can be a good motivator, but it doesn't have to be the only one. Also, you actually would still be able to die, or at least copies of you. Just because you are a robot, does not mean that you are invulnerable.


Death is a motivator, as you said. If there is no death, people will see no reason to do certain things. Why work on something or towards something when it probably wont affect you or help you in the long run? Then again, people might think instead " Hey. Ive got nothing but time. Ill do this." Or there could still be people who freak out about a large astronomical event happening, wiping us out, and still treat death as a VERY real prospect. Say you were driving your car or in a plane in the fake body or whatever. If the brain gets damaged, thats it. Youre done. Game over. Still death. Same thing could happen if just the fake body youre in fails somehow.


----------



## pow3rtr1p

I was not trying to say that people shouldn't want to live forever. But to externalize your consciousness seems, to me, like making a clone of a soul, which is all sorts of wrong, in my personal belief. Immortalizing your singular consciousness if perfectly acceptable to me, but to make multiples is different.


----------



## Bastyn99

So much want. I totally wanna live forever. And according to this, I just have to survive 13 more years, then I can live as a machine for 20 years, and then become a hologram. I am totally not kidding when Im saying, I want this to happen to me. I realize I say totally a lot, but I am totally not being sarcastic about this. Holograms are awesome.


----------



## StormX2

yah its some really complicated bull, I obviously know nothing of how the brain actually works, but id take the bet and say that everything that we are today, how we make decisions, how we follow what we define as "Our Path" or way of life "Budou", depends heavily on how we are raised and brought up.

Which , technically, means your memories. And since many of these items we learn are from extremely early Childhood, these memories may not be viewable, but are somehow stored in a way that we continue to retain that information and Feeling associated with it.

Like Speaking, we dont exactly remember the first time we Spoke our first word, but here we are, able to Speak, Think and convey a message through many means. People who "lose memory" liek amnesia, tend to not forget those Early Learned Lessons like speach, Eating, etc etc.

so how can we transfer that to the AI? if I myself cant Look back that far and see my baby self.

when we find that out, i think it will open a world of many possiblities.

I personally do not think this avatar thing will work, because i do not believe we will be able to replicate those Early Developmental "Memories" which would make the new You technically Different, because we have instead mos tlikely have programmed those in by hand. but they are nto the same, the new you may make Decision and Conclusions based on something Completely different then you have done your whole life. so that would not be u, but a robot who remembers some of the crap you do lol.

its a Dream too far out ahead of us.

Far future, im hoping Humans Evolve into being of pure energy, that would be cool


----------



## MaxFTW

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock99*
> 
> And we'll finally get a Dreamcast 2.


----------



## Noob_with_Tools

and what about a nice well writer computer virus ??? will be anyone at least inmortal or just deleted ???


----------



## SpankyMcFlych

Meh. You can't transfer consciousness, it is an artifact of our physical bodies. You can only copy it, which isn't immortality.

Immortality to me will be achieved through genetic engineering. We will figure out how and why our bodies age and simply change them so that we don't. We will live out our lives in 25 year old (physically) bodies and live for hundreds (or thousands) of years. We will choose when we wish to die, death will be a choice we all make at some point. We will have the time to reach the pinnacle of success in multiple different careers. We will have the time to go back to school multiple times to expand our knowledge in many different fields. We will have to time to live our lives.

Our parents won't grow old and die.


----------



## OwnedINC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpankyMcFlych*
> 
> Meh. You can't transfer consciousness, it is an artifact of our physical bodies. You can only copy it, which isn't immortality.


And you know this how?

Also many people in here seem to confuse what Immortality means.


----------



## Jackeduphard

I am fine with just dying.









But really ... I am.


----------



## SpankyMcFlych

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OwnedINC*
> 
> And you know this how?
> Also many people in here seem to confuse what Immortality means.


Immortality means you _Can't_ die. But that's impossible so people use it to mean living forever until killed in some way.

And I know this through reasoning. If you "transfer" your consciousness to a machine, what happens to your old body? It's still there, you're still there. You arn't moving your consciousness over, you are merely copying it. You are making a new being who has the same memories and thoughts as you do, but from that moment onward they would have new and different experiences thus diverging from being a copy of you and becoming a new them.

Kill or shut down the body in the process and it's still the same. A new copy with you being killed.


----------



## ajslay

screw all of this. its horrible. maybe i dont want to be a damn robot with my brain attached to it. i would probably be the person that ruins this whole thing.

if they could figure out how to keep us from aging, and keeping us in our original body's AND keep our spirit in tact, maybe id think differently. i dont think robots or "fake humans" can love or have feelings....


----------



## Tunechi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock99*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://2045.com/press/
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> As reported by Discovery News, Russian media mogul named Dmitry Itskov formally announced his intentions to *disembody our conscious minds and upload them to a hologram (an avatar) by the year 2045*. With this news he outlined a plan to achieve immortality, removing the human mind from the physical constraints presented by the biological human body. In his latest grasp to achieve, he in a letter to the members of the Forbes World's Billionaire's List, offered up that immortality to the world's 1,266 richest people.
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, one of humanity's greatest problems is being solved.
> The problem is, people simply aren't living long enough. The meager lifespan we occupy isn't enough to reach our full potential. The lengthier our existence, the more advanced the entire species becomes.
> 
> And we'll finally get a Dreamcast 2.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say if we lived longer we'd be able to reach our full potential. I feel what holds us back is that by the age 100 we're so frail and weak that we can't do anything. Even if we could live to 1,000 years old, we'd spend every second lying down being pumped with medicine to keep us going. What's great about this is not only is our lifespan expanded, but our physical bodies would be in very good shape. Not sure if I understand it right, but we might not have to do some humanly functions to keep our body in good condition.


----------



## Tunechi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ajslay*
> 
> screw all of this. its horrible. maybe i dont want to be a damn robot with my brain attached to it. i would probably be the person that ruins this whole thing.
> 
> if they could figure out how to keep us from aging, and keeping us in our original body's AND keep our spirit in tact, maybe id think differently. i dont think robots or "fake humans" can love or have feelings....


Your feelings have nothing to do with your body, it's your brain that handles emotions. It's essentially you but in a different body.


----------



## Asmodean

Ghost in the Shell IRL?

Sign me up!


----------



## ajslay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tunechi*
> 
> Your feelings have nothing to do with your body, it's your brain that handles emotions. It's essentially you but in a different body.


for the most part yes. but you cannot replace someones soul. a soul is the combination of mind, and body. it defines who you are. and nothing can ever replace that..


----------



## OwnedINC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ajslay*
> 
> screw all of this. its horrible. maybe i dont want to be a damn robot with my brain attached to it. i would probably be the person that ruins this whole thing.
> if they could figure out how to keep us from aging, and keeping us in our original body's AND keep our spirit in tact, maybe id think differently. i dont think robots or "fake humans" can love or have feelings....


Well seeing as all you are is a giant chemical computer, it wouldn't be hard to fulfill emotions
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ajslay*
> 
> for the most part yes. but you cannot replace someones soul. a soul is the combination of mind, and body. it defines who you are. and nothing can ever replace that..


Memory defines who we are.


----------



## stealthybox

so uhm...

sex?
just saying.

"major sociological reform"
a _bit_ of an understatement...


----------



## Alatar

I know it might be hard but guys, please keep religion and politics out of this thread. Don't attack other users / groups either.

Cleaned.


----------



## Pip Boy

hang on, most ocn sit at pc on an evening and during the day work to pay for bits, what would another 400 years of life achieve in pure experience terms??









epic minecraft maps thats what !


----------



## jtom320

I'm all for technology and an atheist (that's ok right?) but this kind of stuff still makes me uneasy for some reason.

That said I'm sure I could be talked into doing this.


----------



## pow3rtr1p

I guess the question here is will these avatars be self-aware? If they're just AI based on a consciousness, OK. But if there are 2 copies of an identical consciousness, and they are both self-aware... The universe isn't meant to work like that. I don't have a good scientific reason why it shouldn't, I just strongly believe that's not what mankind is meant to do.


----------



## john55576

Without going into religion... I will try to explain my position by describing some fundamental facts about neuroscience. First, it is known that the left and right hemispheres of the brain control completely different aspects of processing information. For example, the left hemisphere is charged with language and religious beliefs. While the right is mostly charged with logic and reason. Split brain patients are able to provide factual documentation of these separated processing assignments. Musicians have the unique ability to connect both hemispheres simultaneously. What does this mean? In short our actions are impulsive and these impulses are acted upon as an immediate reaction to our environment, and then we justify it with our perception which is based upon our past experiences or otherwise known as memory. In other words our perceptions form our individual reality that then interacts with other perceived realities to form a collective conscious of what is real or isn't real. Which means we could very well already be in a matrix forming our perceptions based on events we react to. Personally I believe we are already immortal, we just don't realize it yet in our collective conscious. But now we are getting into more or less religious beliefs so I will have to stop for sake of TOS


----------



## Madvillan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock99*
> 
> And we'll finally get a Dreamcast 2.


My sides.

And also, lol, the posts in this thread.


----------



## lurker2501

G.I.T.S. much, huh? The idea has been floating around for quite some time, I'm very anxious to see how it turns out. It's been mentioned already that we are just basically our memories and past experience, If you can copy that you can basically copy a mind. The idea is not to make the body immortal rather than just manage to preserve and transfer what our brain accumulates throughout it's lifetime.


----------



## nolonger

Our brains degrade throughout our lifespan. How are they going to account for that?


----------



## frickfrock999

The bottom line is this.

Who WOULDN'T want to be Motoko Kusanagi?


----------



## HK_47

*puts on tinfoil hat*
this is new world order agenda, they want to turn us all into robot slaves.


----------



## brettjv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HK_47*
> 
> *puts on tinfoil hat*
> this is new world order agenda, they want to turn us all into robot slaves.


Wait, you mean I'm not already? Damn ... it would've explained so much ....

Seriously though people, this whole subject is maybe fun to talk about, but is a friggin joke in real life terms. Mark my words: we will never, ever accomplish anything even remotely like what is described here.

You guys ever hear of the people that started businesses offering to take your money now w/the promise of taking care of your pets after you're Raptured? (genius, I know ... I wish it was me







)

Well, this is a similar type of scam ... one which I seriously doubt the richest of the rich will fall for. Most of those folks ... have seen 'em all at this point.

But then again, I hear there's some people that've payed big bucks to be 'cryogenically frozen'







so ... who knows


----------



## hyp36rmax

Reminds me loosely of the Sega game Binary Domain and even the classic Blade Runner, now imagine the androids don't even realize they are robots rather then humans. I truly don't see this ending very well, this will eventually be corporate controlled and for the highest bidder, the ultra rich will live forever and the poverty gap will truly widen... Time will tell...

I'd rather have Gundams and Macross mecha!!!!!!!


----------



## Fullmetalaj0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nutty*
> 
> I don't want to live forever, I want to eventually die.


Then ill take yours too, I dont want to ever die, i want to live forever.


----------



## Crouch

*** ?!


----------



## flamingoyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Murlocke*
> 
> There would be no way to prove that it's YOU that is still living. Chances are you die when you die, then your clone/dupe/whatever you want to call it is an exact copy of you.. however it's not you. It's someone with the exact same memory as you, so it would think "wow that worked amazing", but YOU are still dead and that person thinks they were you.
> There would be no way to prove this system works.. because it would seem to work even when it's actually not. The only person that would know that it didn't work, is the one that's dead.
> It's the same concept as teleportation, chances are the person that steps in would die, and the person on the other side is just an exact dupe, but it's NOT the person the stepped in originally. The person on the exit side would think "hey, that worked amazingly", and would share the exact same memory as the original person.
> The best way to explain it is: If you duped yourself 50 times at the same time, would you control all 50? No they would just be you, and you would still be controlling the original body. The other 50s would be different from you, but just do the exact same things. I highly doubt they find a way to transfer consciousness, and even if they do, there's no way to prove/disprove it.


I understand your argument; however, I believe it is flawed. The flaw is that you have not sufficiently defined what it means to be "you". You seem to view "you" as a static thing, when it is, in fact, dynamic. Who we are is based on our identity; our identity isn't based on who we are.

This is a highly theoretical and highly controversial topic, and it's almost certain that people will have conflicting opinions on what "being" means.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fullmetalaj0*
> 
> Then ill take yours too, I dont want to ever die, i want to live forever.


Indeed. I can't think of any benefit to dying (population control notwithstanding).


----------



## Mr Stabby

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> There is no logical way to make a cut-paste action on the brain that isn't physically moving the brain.


To get technical your mind is the state of your neurons rather than the neurons themselves which are just plumbing so you could replace neurons one at a time with artificial nodes that relay the signals between your remaining organic cells and the computer between signals thus transitioning the mind rather than outright copying it.

All though personally i'd rather have nanobots wrap my neurons into individual shells and transport them through the higher dimensions for safe keeping while projecting their function to a brain surrogate, if done right there wont even be lag


----------



## BBEG

I could not make it through that video. There are some lofty goals mentioned but the science is not terribly supportive, especially of their ideas of "consciousness". The homunculous concept is illustrative, not literal.


----------



## voxox

This thread will never end, so I might as well just end it here.

The creators of this video are abnormal, ludicrous and homophobic zealots.

BTW this thread is under the wrong sub-forum. It's not technology nor it's science. It's a fairy tale.

/Thread


----------



## SIMPSONATOR

Not to get all religious, but .... I am truly afraid.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Why should we want immortality? What a short-sighted, stupid concept... just stopping the aging process is more than good enough.


----------



## HK_47

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brettjv*
> 
> I hear there's some people that've payed big bucks to be 'cryogenically frozen'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so ... who knows


A long-standing urban legend maintains that Walt Disney was cryogenically frozen, and his frozen corpse stored beneath the Pirates of the Caribbean ride at Disneyland


----------



## wizek

Can't wait!


----------



## forever109

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nutty*
> 
> I don't want to live forever, I want to eventually die.


not u, but those damn rich people will want to live for ever.


----------



## Warmonger

Imagine the possibilities, being able to live literally until the end of existence. Since a Avatar can always be repaired and shut down without death or brain loss. Imagine the knowledge we would be able to unlock with the same scientists and researchers constantly advancing technology. They will know exactly how everything in existence works, so the outcome of new technology would be insane. I've been telling people this for years, I feel as if humanity itself is the real "Aliens" that we make up and mimic in movies.


----------



## KOBALT

I'd be satisfied with being plugged in like the Matrix for eternity. If i'm not already....


----------



## oxytone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*
> 
> Why should we want immortality? What a short-sighted, stupid concept...


I was just about to say ******ed for the opposite concept of "i want to be able to die". makes me giggle thou.

amount of ignorance in this place is astonishing. Life is constructed around the fact that you are going to die. it is restricted. Life wont matter at all after many years of your death. It will be as if you have never existed at all. Life is futile because you are going to die.


----------



## skyn3t

you know what i think about this? instead of using all this technology to make this why they don't use it to make a super CPU and Graphics card and a Realistic game and BaMW ....... and let's us OC it till the limits.


----------



## Chobbit

Isn't a big problem, the deterioration of brain cells?

Which is constantly happening and even in current lifespans a lot of our old struggle to function with everyday mental tasks due too deterioration and if you ever have a medical condition during your biological life such as a stroke, brain haemorrhage or Alzheimer's their is a good chance of suffering dementia in only 60 years of living.

Won't this all make us live longer but increase the chance of living with serious brain deterioration and just cause more problems? Everything has an expiry/beyond usefulness date.


----------



## Acefire

I'd hack that.

But this has to be the future. The only way we will ever travel across the galaxy is if we're immortal. No limited being will ever see another solar system in person.


----------



## JonnyFenix

I'm 100% up for this.


----------



## Carniflex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Acroma*
> 
> I see massive problems with the human part of us being able to deal with being stuck in a non-human body. It might just drive people crazy.


I think probability of that happening is high. Additionally I don't think human psyche is capable of dealing with endless existence and when it adapts to cope with that its probably no longer a human. Pure emotionless intelligence is a bit scary thought and while they might be able to emulate some kind of emotion I dont think they will be very successful in it unless it involves some kind of organic response system as well, mainly as brain is very reliant on various hormones for quite many of its functions, especially emotional functions.

Then again if they succeed then yay. Organic life is overrated anyway







If we are not organic anymore then we can travel to the stars !


----------



## _Chimera

So, a massive spam campaign could kill us? imagine dying from lottery banners !

:/


----------



## tubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shimme*
> 
> No, I mean that your body would be dead but your mind would still exist. The essence of who you are, your personality and memories, would go on.


The way you've put it.. is somewhat comforting. Kinda like leaving some sort of child.. at least you've "had" one.

In that sense it still "is" my existence.

welp.. I just want my anime android







This seems to far off even if 30 years from now.


----------



## yeahi

dream dream people you will never reach this


----------



## SkyNetSTI

Interesting ... I live in Russia in Moscow city, but I never heard about this project... Let's see...


----------



## john55576

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oxytone*
> 
> ....
> amount of ignorance in this place is astonishing. Life is constructed around the fact that you are going to die. it is restricted. Life wont matter at all after many years of your death. It will be as if you have never existed at all. Life is futile because you are going to die.


Ignorance would be to accept that only what is perceived from a limited view of senses available sums up everything. For example, the human eyes can only recognize wavelengths from about 390 to 750 nm of the electromagnetic spectrum which would be about 3.5x10-12% of the total available. In other words the Universe has Very little Darkness in it.


----------



## ghostrider85

the process is that they will scan you first, save the data to the clone, then kill you, then activates the clone which is now "*supposed to be*" you,
yes it's a 100 percent exact copy of you, *BUT IS IT REALLY YOU?* what if they didn't kill the original you and just proceeded and activated the clone? which is you of the two now? you can't be both right?

have anyone here watched the movie "the 6th day"?


----------



## john55576

It all comes down to one question...

Does the mind create the consciousness or does the consciousness create the mind?

Henceforth known as theoretical quantum physics.


----------



## Carniflex

Well the question "is it really you who lives forever" has been handles on almost regular basis in science fiction, both in written and otherwise (for example, from games as this is PC site afterall, EVE Online backstory is relevant, as there the players are essentially immortal "pod pilots" waking up in new body every time they die).

So far the popular standpoint seems to be that first time is special but you kinda get used to dying eventually. Only problem usually arising is that the "mortals" don't seem to think you are quite sane or even quite human after a while of "getting used" to dying. Cant really blame them as once you get used to dying can you really value anymore life?


----------



## L D4WG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nutty*
> 
> I don't want to live forever, I want to eventually die.


And you will, no one is forcing this on you...


----------



## StormX2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pow3rtr1p*
> 
> I guess the question here is will these avatars be self-aware? If they're just AI based on a consciousness, OK. But if there are 2 copies of an identical consciousness, and they are both self-aware... The universe isn't meant to work like that. I don't have a good scientific reason why it shouldn't, I just strongly believe that's not what mankind is meant to do.


Well I see this in two parts.

I thoroughly Believe peopl eneed to die. Otherwise there would be 20 Billion people on Earth, and everywhere you went it would be like Tokyo and NYC Combined. you woul dhave better chance crowd surfing than you would walking somewhere. But the surf Never Ends!!

This is partially why Im against so many Vaccines and Half of the Modern world of Medicine, were saving peoples live, who should otherwise by natural Selection, not have , and Should NOT have been able to pass on its genes.

Now, Luckily, this whole avatar thing, is most likely phychotically expensive, in the unlikely event that this process does work, there would probobly be a total of 10 people on the planet who will supposedly never die. So i dont think there is much issues here.

But your right, people need to die, for one reason or another, my opinion is mostly due to lack of resources. Better make these "beings" not require food or power, because eventually modern society WILL Crumble, and the power grid will be gone. would be Naive to think otherwise when discussing 100's of years,

in 200 years I dont believe America will even still be here.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock99*
> 
> The bottom line is this.
> Who WOULDN'T want to be Motoko Kusanagi?


Loved the original Movie, not much of a Fan where the newer shows are concerned. But yes, I would do ANYTHING for that Strength, Speed, Efficiency, Intelligence, always connected to the net and your friends , and of course. Invisibility.

But all of which is still far from Immortality.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *voxox*
> 
> This thread will never end, so I might as well just end it here.
> The creators of this video are abnormal, ludicrous and homophobic zealots.
> BTW this thread is under the wrong sub-forum. It's not technology nor it's science. It's a fairy tale.
> /Thread


How are they homophobic Zealots exactly?

But you are atleast partially right, this is a wild fantasy, but one that exists within the realm of Eventual Possiblity.

Im in love wioth the fantasy of what i call True Immortality. Like, the sort of being, who can be tossed into the sun, and still exist.
What intrigues me most is to see what Life is like, 100, 500, 1000, 2000, and Millions of years from now, what changes, what happens, what Evolves, what doesnt?

And then I want to personally witness the Death of our Solarsystem, and as I mentioned before, Hopefully catch a ride fromt he Shockwave Produced by the exploding sun or planet (as Im nto exactly sure what will happen) and hopefully be ejected out into the wide open universe, where Il be happy to drift for eons upon eons, i figure, I will eventually find something cool =)


----------



## videoman5

Ain't gonna work.


----------



## voxox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *videoman5*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't gonna work.


I like that...









This will NEVER happen people. Don't even try to bring up ANY meaningless theories because none of them will be adequate to argue over.

You (everyone) WILL die someday so face the fact HEAD on and continue living your life. These people are delusional zealots.

Why do I even care to post here??? Arrrgg.. I'm out of this post.

*gets of out his cubical and sees a hot girl* Hey... How YOU doing?*


----------



## General121

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *voxox*
> 
> I like that...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This will NEVER happen people. Don't even try to bring up ANY meaningless theories because none of them will be adequate to argue over.
> You (everyone) WILL die someday so face the fact HEAD on and continue living your life. These people are delusional zealots.
> Why do I even care to post here??? Arrrgg.. I'm out of this post.
> *gets of out his cubical and sees a hot girl* Hey... How YOU doing?*


Doubt it.


----------



## Bonkers

This sounds like something out of the book called "Indentured". The beginning of the book starts off with a guy living a semi-normal life but he dies suddenly. A few thousand years later he is awoken to find that he is in this ultra strong/lean/perfect human body and everyone looks alike. What happened was that during our current time MRI's were scanning brains (as they do today) but somehow they learned how to write down all the information of the brain. So in the future they were able to recreate these people and put them in perfect bodies to use them as soldiers. They said it was lawful to be used as a soldier because they had been able to freely live out their former life the way they had wanted to. Ended up causing problems because people were literally waking up with the memories they had right after they had finished the MRI. It was like they never died or anything. Any information gathered from the time of the MRI to the time of death was lost.

Scary to think that someone is trying to make us immortal. I may change my mind, but I want to die eventually.


----------



## dealio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *voxox*
> 
> I like that...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This will *NEVER* happen people. Don't even try to bring up *ANY* meaningless theories because none of them will be adequate to argue over.
> You (everyone) *WILL* die someday so face the fact *HEAD* on and continue living your life. These people are delusional zealots.
> Why do I even care to post here??? Arrrgg.. I'm out of this post.
> *gets of out his cubical and sees a hot girl* Hey... How *YOU* doing?*


i like the fact that Malthusianism is the main reason humanity needs something like Project 2045 or we are doomed.

if everyone had your mindset of " NEVER ANY WILL HEAD YOU"







we would still be sourcing fire from lighting strikes.


----------



## Ploppytheman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StormX2*
> 
> Well I see this in two parts.
> I thoroughly Believe peopl eneed to die. Otherwise there would be 20 Billion people on Earth, and everywhere you went it would be like Tokyo and NYC Combined. you woul dhave better chance crowd surfing than you would walking somewhere. But the surf Never Ends!!
> This is partially why Im against so many Vaccines and Half of the Modern world of Medicine, were saving peoples live, who should otherwise by natural Selection, not have , and Should NOT have been able to pass on its genes.
> But your right, people need to die, for one reason or another, my opinion is mostly due to lack of resources. Better make these "beings" not require food or power, because eventually modern society WILL Crumble, and the power grid will be gone. would be Naive to think otherwise when discussing 100's of years,
> in 200 years I dont believe America will even still be here.
> Loved the original Movie, not much of a Fan where the newer shows are concerned. But yes, I would do ANYTHING for that Strength, Speed, Efficiency, Intelligence, always connected to the net and your friends , and of course. Invisibility.
> But all of which is still far from Immortality.
> How are they homophobic Zealots exactly?


Pretty sure he is just a troll. I would know... and lay off the pot a bit man...

Evolution is an oudated system of advancement and now is a tool for the new expansion and development of life, which is intellect. I am basing this on a purely atheistic thought process assuming that human being or a human equivalent are the first intelligent entities around. I mean for all we know intelligence or consciousness existed before "life" as we know it. If you look at the human animal the only advantages we possess over other animals are intelligence and efficient long distance running. Humans are generally weak, slow, and dont have any tools at birth. Human babies are completely helpless for a long time as well. Go search for persistance hunt or mexican running tribe. Africans chase down antelopes until the antelope dies of exhaustion. A tribe of Mexicans can run 400 miles in two days or something ridiculous. Even though those are useful tools our intellect is what really allows us to thrive and dominate all other life and each other. Once humans had dominated their environment and animals they moved onto dominating each other, iron sharpens iron. That is why war and racism although outdated did force competition to make us better since we needed something harder to compete with than a deer and drove innovation and development like an artificial evolution that didnt require intelligence directly.

So now we have 7 bllion people, instant access to all information from our computers, we have a ton more knowledge. And we can actually dedicate and train our brain in intellectual pursuits or leisure activities as compared to being a farmer. Intellect allows us to make changes much faster than evolution and instead of react we can take preemptive actions and forsee future problems and correct them. We can even manipulate evolution for our benefit just like we manipulate everything else to suit our needs. We can make much better choices with much better information.

And overpopulation is a lie. The problem is undertechology. In the agricultural revolution they learned to grow 1000x more corn/wheat in the same area. We moved from animals pulling carts to steam engines to gasoline. We have nuclear power but we don't use it because of fear. Go look up thorium reactor and see all problems are solved. Thorium is the REAL green solution. And we aren't out of resources, we have literally barely scratched the surface of the earth. You know how volcanoes are touted as being great for vegetation? Its because the earth is full of useful resources, if we can learn to create controlled artificial volcanoes we can effectively mine the mantle of the earth for ore and minerals etc. I think Cameron has it wrong trying to harvest asteroids when we have rich materials underneath our feet, but i don't know the logistics or cost of either. But the point is there are other ways to do things better, just like when we replaced horses with cars or X with Z.

The people who spout overpopulation and global warming are often making a power/money grab in order to get govt subsidies or other $$$ to start corporations that fail and they steal money from. China and Russia are researching the Thorium Reactor, why isn't the US doing it? Its basically infinite energy and we wouldnt have to worry about dealing with oil or the Middle East (not political, just from a pure monetary standpoint). It would jumpstart teh economy as well since energy costs are a major factor in all businesses. I mean imagine if your food costs were suddenly cut to 1% of what they were. All that extra money you can buy a ton of other stuff. The US could be a major exporter in energy. And our real food is heavily influenced by gasoline costs thats why gas price and food prices go up so much at the same time because its a major expense to move feed, animals, and plants around, not to mention going to the store yourself!

Don't believe what people tell you, go see the opposite opinion and also ask yourself what do these people benefit from this directly and indirectly. Otherwise you'll be hoodwinked faster than you can say hogwash.


----------



## voxox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General121*
> 
> Doubt it.


You have all the right to do so...









Trying to get my post number increased. Haven't you realized that yet?


----------



## DarkCode

That's a very ambitious timeline. There is no way in hell they are going to hit it either.

The technology just won't be there. Unless we have some stellar neuroscientists develop a direct brain-machine interface (putting sensors on your skull is NOT going to ever solve the issue because of interference and problems with skin, bone, and hair, interfering with the wave propagation. And not to mention, the entire configuration of your mind is so sensitive to changes that such an undertaking is just not going to be possible unless we fundamentally change the approach all these people have been taking. Essentially the majority of research over the past few years has been to develop high resolution brain wave scanners, and to use active imaging like fMRI, but the scanners don't work with a high degree of accuracy and they have a HUGE learning curve. fMRI on the other hand can't be used for long periods because it's dosing the individual with radiation. There is no threshold dose after which you are guaranteed to get cancer, or some dose under which you won't. Radiation is all about probability calculations.

This project will get pushed aside after it files for bankruptcy in the future. This is just like that private mission to Mars that was talked about recently. Great science fiction ideas, just completely NOT feasible right now for those two individual groups.


----------



## General121

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *voxox*
> 
> You have all the right to do so...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trying to get my post number increased. Haven't you realized that yet?


Lol. That much rep and trading rep and youre just trying to up your post count?


----------



## OwnedINC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Carniflex*
> 
> Cant really blame them as once you get used to dying can you really value anymore life?


Even as things are now, a great many people don't value life, especially ones that aren't theirs.


----------



## czin125

Didn't they already transplant mice brain to another mice body host recently? One in the US and one in Japan? this "avatar" one isn't the same as keeping the brain alive in another host body... it doesn't keep your brain alive for a longer time... you still die in this one...?

what kind of bodies do you get?


----------



## voxox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General121*
> 
> Lol. That much rep and trading rep and youre just trying to up your post count?


Yup... Nothing wrong with that. When you sit in front of a computer at work for long time, you just feel like doing something so that time passes by just a tad bit faster.


----------



## marknotk

I don't believe this can happen soon or even within the next few hundred years, we don't even know what consciousness is or how the brain works, or where memories are stored.

Behind the curtain of every day consciousness lies an unutterably strange mental universe.


----------



## General121

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *voxox*
> 
> Yup... Nothing wrong with that. When you sit in front of a computer at work for long time, you just feel like doing something so that time passes by just a tad bit faster.


Thats what im doing....Though recently catastrophic failures have come up more


----------



## the_milk_man

All I have to say is watch "Ghost in the Shell"


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the_milk_man*
> 
> All I have to say is watch "Ghost in the Shell"


99.9% of the people here have no idea what that is.
I feel so sorry for them.


----------



## Grobi

I think that this is a bad idea. This way we would abuse nature. There is no immortality for a reason.


----------



## 179232

I can imagine this going seriously wrong. Lets say the brain is like a large HDD, the body is the chassi, and your internal organs are your internal hardware parts. It has an Intel CPU and Nvidia GPU).

You load Windows 7 onto your HDD and install the drivers. Then you take that HDD and put it into a another PC that has an AMD CPU, AMD CPU, and different onboard LAN, etc. If you try to boot it up (in modes other than safe mode) then the drivers will not match and you will have issues.

I can imagine this happening with the brain as well. Like a male body builder's brain is put into the body of someone who is 5'9" 130lbs.


----------



## voxox

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *General121*
> 
> Thats what im doing....Though recently catastrophic failures have come up more


I'll just go take my break and walk around a bit.







It's probably confindetial, but what failures?


----------



## SectorNine50

Arranged and planned breeding, here we come. Perpetual birth control for the rest of us (assuming these avatars are that complex).

I read a book about something like this in high school... can't remember the name of it though. Was kinda trippy...


----------



## AbdullahG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ComradeNF*
> 
> I can imagine this going seriously wrong. Lets say the brain is like a large HDD, the body is the chassi, and your internal organs are your internal hardware parts. It has an Intel CPU and Nvidia GPU).
> You load Windows 7 onto your HDD and install the drivers. Then you take that HDD and put it into a another PC that has an AMD CPU, AMD CPU, and different onboard LAN, etc. If you try to boot it up (in modes other than safe mode) then the drivers will not match and you will have issues.
> I can imagine this happening with the brain as well. Like a male body builder's brain is put into *the body of someone who is 5'9" 130lbs*.












I don't think it's literally moving the brain into another body. It seems more like making a copy of a personality and moving it into another brain.


----------



## Carniflex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OwnedINC*
> 
> Even as things are now, a great many people don't value life, especially ones that aren't theirs.


That is precisely the point.


----------



## djriful

So it begins, I can meet EDI (Mass Effect).


----------



## FlawleZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkCode*
> 
> That's a very ambitious timeline. There is no way in hell they are going to hit it either.
> The technology just won't be there. Unless we have some stellar neuroscientists develop a direct brain-machine interface (putting sensors on your skull is NOT going to ever solve the issue because of interference and problems with skin, bone, and hair, interfering with the wave propagation. And not to mention, the entire configuration of your mind is so sensitive to changes that such an undertaking is just not going to be possible unless we fundamentally change the approach all these people have been taking. Essentially the majority of research over the past few years has been to develop high resolution brain wave scanners, and to use active imaging like fMRI, but the scanners don't work with a high degree of accuracy and they have a HUGE learning curve. fMRI on the other hand can't be used for long periods because it's dosing the individual with radiation. There is no threshold dose after which you are guaranteed to get cancer, or some dose under which you won't. Radiation is all about probability calculations.
> This project will get pushed aside after it files for bankruptcy in the future. This is just like that private mission to Mars that was talked about recently. Great science fiction ideas, just completely NOT feasible right now for those two individual groups.


This. No way. No how. Not by 2045, if ever.


----------



## StormX2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*
> 
> Pretty sure he is just a troll. I would know... and lay off the pot a bit man...
> Evolution is an oudated system of advancement and now is a tool for the new expansion and development of life, which is intellect. I am basing this on a purely atheistic thought process assuming that human being or a human equivalent are the first intelligent entities around. I mean for all we know intelligence or consciousness existed before "life" as we know it. If you look at the human animal the only advantages we possess over other animals are intelligence and efficient long distance running. Humans are generally weak, slow, and dont have any tools at birth. Human babies are completely helpless for a long time as well. Go search for persistance hunt or mexican running tribe. Africans chase down antelopes until the antelope dies of exhaustion. A tribe of Mexicans can run 400 miles in two days or something ridiculous. Even though those are useful tools our intellect is what really allows us to thrive and dominate all other life and each other. Once humans had dominated their environment and animals they moved onto dominating each other, iron sharpens iron. That is why war and racism although outdated did force competition to make us better since we needed something harder to compete with than a deer and drove innovation and development like an artificial evolution that didnt require intelligence directly.
> So now we have 7 bllion people, instant access to all information from our computers, we have a ton more knowledge. And we can actually dedicate and train our brain in intellectual pursuits or leisure activities as compared to being a farmer. Intellect allows us to make changes much faster than evolution and instead of react we can take preemptive actions and forsee future problems and correct them. We can even manipulate evolution for our benefit just like we manipulate everything else to suit our needs. We can make much better choices with much better information.
> And overpopulation is a lie. The problem is undertechology. In the agricultural revolution they learned to grow 1000x more corn/wheat in the same area. We moved from animals pulling carts to steam engines to gasoline. We have nuclear power but we don't use it because of fear. Go look up thorium reactor and see all problems are solved. Thorium is the REAL green solution. And we aren't out of resources, we have literally barely scratched the surface of the earth. You know how volcanoes are touted as being great for vegetation? Its because the earth is full of useful resources, if we can learn to create controlled artificial volcanoes we can effectively mine the mantle of the earth for ore and minerals etc. I think Cameron has it wrong trying to harvest asteroids when we have rich materials underneath our feet, but i don't know the logistics or cost of either. But the point is there are other ways to do things better, just like when we replaced horses with cars or X with Z.
> The people who spout overpopulation and global warming are often making a power/money grab in order to get govt subsidies or other $$$ to start corporations that fail and they steal money from. China and Russia are researching the Thorium Reactor, why isn't the US doing it? Its basically infinite energy and we wouldnt have to worry about dealing with oil or the Middle East (not political, just from a pure monetary standpoint). It would jumpstart teh economy as well since energy costs are a major factor in all businesses. I mean imagine if your food costs were suddenly cut to 1% of what they were. All that extra money you can buy a ton of other stuff. The US could be a major exporter in energy. And our real food is heavily influenced by gasoline costs thats why gas price and food prices go up so much at the same time because its a major expense to move feed, animals, and plants around, not to mention going to the store yourself!
> Don't believe what people tell you, go see the opposite opinion and also ask yourself what do these people benefit from this directly and indirectly. Otherwise you'll be hoodwinked faster than you can say hogwash.


You had some good points in there, but you kind of strayed off what I was actually saying.

Anyway, another very well known fact is that we are all ruining our Top Soil. the next few hundred years will be incredibly difficult. I don't think it will be nearly as wonderful as your dreaming here but thats what dreams are for, hope.

Agriculture is already experiencing incredible Shocks, Groves in California shutting down, Price of Almonds have rose because the trees require too much water, not enough water to go around in certain areas. Thats something people forget about.

Limitless energy sounds great. But you honestly thing america will just give it away? Certainly end up more expensive than my current Elecrical bill.

OverPopulation is always a problem, but with more people being forced into slums and the streets as well, the liklihood of serious spreading disease rises, so who knows, maybe a good Plague will Thin things out.


----------



## tech99

Joker approves this.


----------



## iKxGaMeX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*
> 
> What we really need to do is create robots or basic AI to do menial jobs. This way humans con focus on intellectual pursuits their whole lives rather than have to work crappy jobs. I mean if you look at the potential for humanities processing power and how much is wasted on crap jobs, like janitor for instance. If everyone could go to school and study and come out being at least somewhat able to help in more advanced jobs that would be great. I know a lot of people are stupid and/or lazy so not everyone can be a top scientist. But having a Lab Assistant instead of a Janitor is a big step up. And there just needs to be better eduacational setups for everyone so that all that lost potential of human processing power isnt wasted. My friend has to work retail so he can live and the only way out is to also go to school at the same time, or join the military. This is a huge waste of resources to have people who are otherwise intelligent work jobs like retail. Sure there are a lot of idiots in retail too but maybe if those idiots were given a better education they wouldn't be idiots, at least some portion of them.
> Accumulation of wealth should not be the main reason for people to live their lives, whether thats a billionaire businessman or someone to poor to afford food. Its basically Pavlov's hieracrchy of needs and we have the vast majority of poeple focusing on lower tiers and never self actualizing.
> There is some movie.. think its called Gattaca that has normal humans vs elite gene controlled humans. Thats what this would be.


How can you talk about people like they're just a resource dedicated to advancing our race as a whole? You do realize that people like to simply live their lives, right? Some people would rather have a simple job and enjoy the simple things in life rather than "contribute" to anything greater than themselves. You have no right to judge them for doing so.

I don't like where the direciton of this "progress" is going. People seem to focus on a few areas:

-Energy and efficiency
-Physical Space constraints
-Purpose of human life

Now with this latest idea, it seems like we are going to create a matrix for ourselves... Mechanical technology hasn't made much progress since the "Back to the Future" era. The main advances have come from computer technology. At the rate things are going, I can see people wanting to live in a virtual reality forever. Why try to make it to mars when we have all the room we could ever ask for in cyberspace? Think about it. A completely virtual world would provide us with:

Immortality (from this project)
Unlimited space to inhabit
Complete and instantaneous communication between people/minds
Little to no energy demands from fossil fuels (we've all seen the matrix)

And to be honest I don't like it one bit. Sorry if this post didnt make sense lol, I'm better at thinking than I am putting words on paper


----------



## Smo

Mortality is *not* a problem. We need to, and should, die.


----------



## skyn3t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ploppytheman*
> 
> This is one of the worst possible ideas ever. Imagine an immortal dictator. And this will only be affordable to the super rich, and will have their wealth be kept by one person for even longer. This means that power will be controlled by less people for longer and we all know what that means. I mean maybe if you were only rewarded life on your own merits such as being a dedicated scientist, doctor, or other person who contributes a lot to society. Im sure that would be a system to corrupt as well though since money buys everything and how much would a billionaire pay for immortality? I mean look at black market organ sales. We already sell life in a literal fashion let alone all the ways we trade life for currency so we dont die today. That is what needs to go.
> Also the timeline seems way too short for this.
> Also copying yourself does not mean immortality. You die. Your copy lives on. That is not even remotely the same thing.
> What we really need to do is create robots or basic AI to do menial jobs. This way humans con focus on intellectual pursuits their whole lives rather than have to work crappy jobs. I mean if you look at the potential for humanities processing power and how much is wasted on crap jobs, like janitor for instance. If everyone could go to school and study and come out being at least somewhat able to help in more advanced jobs that would be great. I know a lot of people are stupid and/or lazy so not everyone can be a top scientist. But having a Lab Assistant instead of a Janitor is a big step up. And there just needs to be better eduacational setups for everyone so that all that lost potential of human processing power isnt wasted. My friend has to work retail so he can live and the only way out is to also go to school at the same time, or join the military. This is a huge waste of resources to have people who are otherwise intelligent work jobs like retail. Sure there are a lot of idiots in retail too but maybe if those idiots were given a better education they wouldn't be idiots, at least some portion of them.
> Accumulation of wealth should not be the main reason for people to live their lives, whether thats a billionaire businessman or someone to poor to afford food. Its basically Pavlov's hieracrchy of needs and we have the vast majority of poeple focusing on lower tiers and never self actualizing.
> There is some movie.. think its called Gattaca that has normal humans vs elite gene controlled humans. Thats what this would be.


*Ploppytheman*, You did used the right words to describe this hole waste idea instead give other "idiots" like they think a light in the dark tunnel so they can show the potential. Anyone one here in this thread can say anything but what *Ploppytheman* said above is true. this is against any contribution in history of human life.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iKxGaMeX*
> 
> How can you talk about people like they're just a resource dedicated to advancing our race as a whole? You do realize that people like to simply live their lives, right? Some people would rather have a simple job and enjoy the simple things in life rather than "contribute" to anything greater than themselves. You have no right to judge them for doing so.


iKxGaMeX, looks like you do think like them. i don't need to tell waht because you smart enough to know what I'm talk about


----------



## SectorNine50

Wouldn't one be able to argue that a person's life is how long their consciousness remains in tact?

To me, that implies that if you move everything that makes you who you are, to another "body," you are in effect perpetuating the life of said person. That is essentially immortality.

A dictator copied to another body is still the same dictator, just in another body.


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SectorNine50*
> 
> Wouldn't one be able to argue that a person's life is how long their consciousness remains in tact?
> To me, that implies that if you move everything that makes you who you are, to another "body," you are in effect perpetuating the life of said person. That is essentially immortality.
> A dictator copied to another body is still the same dictator, just in another body.


Exactly. The body is insignificant as long as the memories/personalities remain intact.
It's in our nature to be curious and exploratory. This the evolution we need.


----------



## Carniflex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock99*
> 
> Exactly. The body is insignificant as long as the memories/personalities remain intact.
> It's in our nature to be curious and exploratory. This the evolution we need.


I would not hold my breath over personality remaining intact as emotions are mostly biochemical. Lets say you don't go nuts all the sudden over the transfer - I would speculate that you would be a lot different person without emotions. They would probably design some kind of subroutines for emotions though that emulate these. Lets say loyalty to the party would be always on, desire to live also probably, some kind of motivations packet as well perhaps ... love - well that's can be left for users to be controlled, switch it on or switch it off as you like.


----------



## Electrocutor

If such a thing were to ever happen, this concept would bring a whole new meaning to hackers. A bored genius 12 year old could just decide to change your personality or erase all your memories.


----------



## Banzai?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock99*
> 
> Exactly. The body is insignificant as long as the memories/personalities remain intact.
> It's in our nature to be curious and exploratory. *This is the evolution we need.*


It's an odd idea that we ourselves force evolution among ourselves.

@ Electrocutor Or look at what future Government might choose to do with its people. Turn past humans into no-more than voters and propaganda with 'free thoughts.'


----------



## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Banzai?*
> 
> It's an odd idea that we ourselves force evolution among ourselves.


Isn't that the purpose of science? To educate ourselves and use that knowledge to evolve?


----------



## Avelict

Talk about some serious tech concepts. Not to be a grammar nazi or anything, but I don't think labeling this as immortality really fits. I mean, I'm sure everyone on this forum knows that hardware and data corrupt and degrade over a period of time, much more over a span of 10,000 years. Even existing as consciousness, I can't see how we would interact with the supporting hardware for repairs and upkeep to sustain the 'immortality' (longevity). Very cool thoughts, nevertheless.

Morality aside, this would turn the philosophical world on its head.


----------



## Stizuner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *snoball*
> 
> Did anyone else immediately think this?


I thought more about that bruce willis moving a few years back...


----------



## Banzai?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock99*
> 
> Isn't that the purpose of science? To educate ourselves and use that knowledge to evolve?


Yes, but the idea is to copy our minds into a halogram hoping that the AI will keep it fresh. It sounds more like someone opening a persons diary and reading every little word intently to decide he/she knows enough to continue that persons thought.
As it stands; technology to help and entertain humans rather than actually keeping them alive longer.


----------



## StormX2

you would have to seriously come up with a plan though... I dont believe that it is impossible to believe that an extinction level event could happen in an "Immortal's Near Future"

What then would you do? Mr. Hologram needs Power to exist doesnt he?

You cant exactly rely on Solar energy, and Wind Turbines would not last very long without maintenance. Nature will eventually overtake Dams and Nuclear Reactors will eventually stop if not already done in from some other source, like ourselves lol

Immortality as a Robot is just too flawed.

Immortality as a Hologram, is just.... Boring..


----------



## tahayassen

Why does this thread exist and why does it have 19 pages?

C'mon guys. Overclock.net is about Science and Technology. It's not about conspiracy and stupid scams.

This 2045 crackpot crap has been around for a long time. It belongs with "The world will end on 2012" and "9/11 was an inside job" and "the government is hiding aliens".

I want to see one single scientific reference in a peer reviewed journal about this "initiative".

I'm sorry frickfrock99; I like the majority of your news posts, but why post this garbage? :|


----------



## SectorNine50

Because it's interesting, and not garbage. The fact that this is being pursued is news in it's self. There have been many theories on what happens to humanity once it reaches this point, some good, many bad. I don't see any harm in discussing it, even if it is for 19 pages.

It would be kind of sick to be ported into a ship as an AI for the ship. I'm almost certain that wouldn't get boring...









Plus, if you are connected to the internet, you'll have a hard time getting bored.


----------



## protzman

by the end of this i was rooting at my computer! if this comes even half tru i will love it and love everyone and love life, this stuff is so x 10^200 cool


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock99*
> 
> 99.9% of the people here have no idea what that is.
> I feel so sorry for them.


I do, at least.







But comparing this to the stuff in GitS isn't really fair considering the GitS tech relies on things we can't scientifically verify yet. We're close, but there's no solution like there is in the series.


----------



## ghostrider85

The question is that if you got cloned, is it still you? Or just a diffent person which is an exact copy of you and even thinks that he is you?


----------



## Acefire

Whoever is left standing after the bullets stop flying is the real me.......


----------



## tahayassen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SectorNine50*
> 
> Because it's interesting, and not garbage. The fact that this is being pursued is news in it's self. There have been many theories on what happens to humanity once it reaches this point, some good, many bad. I don't see any harm in discussing it, even if it is for 19 pages.
> 
> It would be kind of sick to be ported into a ship as an AI for the ship. I'm almost certain that wouldn't get boring...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus, if you are connected to the internet, you'll have a hard time getting bored.


I want to see one single scientific reference in a peer reviewed journal about this "initiative". If this is just speculation, then it shouldn't be under the valid news section of OCN.


----------



## Thingamajig




----------



## Cloudforever

Quote:


> I see massive problems with the human part of us being able to deal with being stuck in a non-human body. It might just drive people crazy.


As far as this part goes the first thing that popped into my mind is how much whoever will be controlling at this time will have more control over the population that does do this. Also I thought of DATA from star trek , but hes just a robot lol.

Truthfully this is actually kind of scary also if they can figure out how the brain works by the time they say and like the science fiction shows or movies to where they can read the future of what happens and kill your kids or take them before they are murderers or thieves and such lol.

Plus where is WWIII coming into play during this whole time if you think about that too lol


----------



## IXcrispyXI

i dont see anything good coming out of this, we are not meant to be immortal, our bodies show this the most


----------



## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IXcrispyXI*
> 
> i dont see anything good coming out of this, we are not meant to be immortal, our bodies show this the most


doesn't matter as this won't gonna happen, cloning is not an answer to immortality.
this is like hard drives, you can save a dying western digital 250gb hard drive by copying it's stuff to another western digital 250gb hard drive, now the new hard drive have the same stuff like the old one, but it's not the same hard drive anymore.


----------



## ilhe4e12345

I think this is interesting...although it will be un affordable to the common man or woman but still an intereting idea...just imagine being put in a virtual world like Tron? Just being able to see things from a totally different look. Not depending on food anymore only power (same thing really) and living forever seeing what the future world brings and evolves into.

The thing is i dont see humanity being able to accept a virtual presense. I mean think about it....emotions such as love, passion, angry, happy....will mean nothing and wont be able to be controlled. If you want to make love lets say (or bump uglies for you younglings out there) it would be impossible to "feel" it...unless the technology to do something like this comes in and controls the implses...but then at that point we just become more machines than humans.....and thats scary. If they are able to just transfer the conscience of people to robots or virtual worlds that doesnt keep emotion into check. Imagine living forever but knowing that everyone you know and love will grow olda nd die around you...and you cant do anything about it other then watch and continue your virtual life within another world or a robot body (if they went that route). Thats some hardcore thinking right there.....going to other planets and worlds is easily within reach then...because now the 1132897289672896728 years to fly to different ends of the universe wouldnt depend on food or oxygen. The technology and dreams that people out there have could actually become a reality....but to perfect something like this will take much longer then 30 years i imagine...

Money and disease become a thing of the past if you can transfer yourself to the digital world....personally...I would do it...but thats because i want to see what the world would look like in 100+ years.

I picture either the whole Tron reality or something like Ghost In the Shell Stand Alone Complex.....being one person but moving to different bodies....kind of neat but I dont think humanity is at all ready for this....


----------



## SpankyMcFlych

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IXcrispyXI*
> 
> i dont see anything good coming out of this, we are not meant to be immortal, our bodies show this the most


We're not meant to (naturally) live beyond our 30's either, but modern technology has allowed us to. Are you willing to give up all those years?

We're meant to be whatever we decide to be. If we decide to research an end to death then that's what we're meant to be.


----------



## Evangelion

Am I the only one who read the title as The Human Instrumentality Project?


----------



## HK_47

The Future :


----------



## Redwoodz

There are technologies we have now that can make this possible. We have chips that can be powered by our blood,we already have artificial limbs controlled by the mind. The trick is to be able to connect our brain signals(all of them) to another body or machine.


----------



## Roman736

If people actually believe this they are completely scientifically illiterate.

1967: first heart transplant

2011: scientists grow stem cell-derived heart cells in a petri dish

2020: human brain transplanted into artificial body

2030: artificial human brain created

I guess this is what America is left w/ after ignoring public science education....

You should all do yourselves a favor and listen to The Skeptics Guide to the Universe. Best. Podcast. Ever.


----------



## Dutch Ninja

There is no point in living forever.


----------



## Orici

Interesting idea but sadly these kind of ideas almost always happen just outside our life span.


----------



## TheYonderGod

Nooo don't do it! Didn't we learn anything from Battlestar Galactica and it's prequel, Caprica?


----------



## Banzai?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roman736*
> 
> If people actually believe this they are completely scientifically illiterate.
> 1967: first heart transplant
> 2011: scientists grow stem cell-derived heart cells in a petri dish
> 2020: human brain transplanted into artificial body
> 2030: artificial human brain created
> I guess this is what America is left w/ after ignoring public science education....
> You should all do yourselves a favor and listen to The Skeptics Guide to the Universe. Best. Podcast. Ever.


Indeed; those Russians from Russia convincing Americans to come speak out with this idea instead is really bothersome.


----------



## GoodbyeGalaxy

"What began as a conflict over the transfer of consciousness from flesh to machines escalated into a war which has decimated a million worlds. The Core and the Arm have all but exhausted the resources of a galaxy in their struggle for domination. Both sides now crippled beyond repair, the remnants of their armies continue to battle on ravaged planets, their hatred fueled by over four thousand years of total war. This is a fight to the death. For each side, the only acceptable outcome is the complete elimination of the other."

Made me think of this. ^^


----------



## Badness

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adjas*
> 
> Death is what makes life worth living.


Life makes life worth living.


----------



## rgrwng

this reminds me of that Krang brain from TMNT. it was an evil brain inside a spider contraption (think doom 1 boss) and also had some kind of robotic body, where it lived inside the stomach area.


----------



## ArabAK47

Wait doesn't this kinda work as the movie Source Code? Where Jake wakes up in that "generated body". I don't know please inform me?


----------



## Skrillex

Yeah considering a lot of people develop conditions involving neural degeneration such as parkinsons, dementia and so on.

Why is this a good idea ?


----------



## 66racer

There are so many issues with this. THE MAIN problem I see if the earth running out of space for everyone before their planned space expansion in 2035 or so. Not to mention if we are all in robot bodies who will procreate?

Besides we cant solve cancer but we are supposed to expect them to somehow transfer our brain to a robot in such a soon timeline? I suppose it MAY be possible since the mind can control robotic limbs but this is on a whole new scale.


----------



## Thingamajig

Actually, this not only reminded me of the matrix, but also of:


----------



## Clipze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roman736*
> 
> If people actually believe this they are completely scientifically illiterate.
> 1967: first heart transplant
> 2011: scientists grow stem cell-derived heart cells in a petri dish
> 2020: human brain transplanted into artificial body
> 2030: artificial human brain created
> I guess this is what America is left w/ after ignoring public science education....
> You should all do yourselves a favor and listen to The Skeptics Guide to the Universe. Best. Podcast. Ever.


im not sure what youre saying...is the timeline too close together?

I didnt see anything about "brains"..

This idea is about consciousness


----------



## czin125

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redwoodz*
> 
> There are technologies we have now that can make this possible. We have chips that can be powered by our blood,we already have artificial limbs controlled by the mind. The trick is to be able to connect our brain signals(all of them) to another body or machine.


http://media.screened.com/uploads/0/2714/254629-generalgrievous1.jpg
future?

http://www.dekaresearch.com/images/deka_arm.jpg


----------



## heinz357

World full of...



...I'd rather not thanks!


----------



## mr one

could resist to not post this on idea:
when they show up a floppy disk with a brain sym bol i thought that they are showing how would look a blond girl personality







it takes only a 3.1 MB







or even less


----------



## TopicClocker

Deus Ex Human Revolution days







, I swear they've done successful clones of human beings and brain transplants already? just not in the same operation.


----------



## SectorNine50

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tahayassen*
> 
> I want to see one single scientific reference in a peer reviewed journal about this "initiative". If this is just speculation, then it shouldn't be under the valid news section of OCN.


If you are looking for peer reviewed articles, OCN news is not where you should be.


----------



## tahayassen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SectorNine50*
> 
> If you are looking for peer reviewed articles, OCN news is not where you should be.


No you're right, if I'm looking for peer reviewed articles, OCN is not where I should be. I'm looking for legit news that is supported by peer reviewed articles instead of crackpot theories.


----------



## sctheluna

So red or blue pill?


----------



## ENTERPRISE

No such thing as immortality in a physical sense in my opinion. You would only be delaying the inevitable. We all change, that is the only one constant, you cannot preserve a human or the true essence of a human being inevitably. We are meant to die and change into a different form of energy. Otherwise our lives and the essence of our lives would become diluted, I would rather die than linger on. I guess it all comes down to each person Philosophical beliefs, but this would not be me. To die and be remembered for what I truly was and what I had achieved is what I want. Existence in one form should be finite, otherwise how do we define ourselves ? The time by which we are limited to is our pushing factor to achieve and to better ourselves. With an Infinite existence you take away one if not the largest fundamental points of what makes us Human.

As far as I see it, while we may not stay in one singular form, we are all immortal, we simply change. Nothing truly dies.


----------



## awdrifter

While I think their timeline is no where near realistic, I'm excited by these efforts. I don't believe the human body is what makes us, I believe each person's thought pattern is what makes each of us unique. If we can separate our mind from our body, then we becomes truly immortal. When we reach something similar to Avatar D, we'll have robots that we can control to do the physical interactions for us. We can then explore the universe like we wanted to these hundreds of years. Time and radiation will no longer be an issue.


----------



## perfectblade

The problem with this is that we dont really understand what consciousness. How do we therefore know that it can be transfered to something non-biological? And the human brain will decay physically over time? Though i guess im all for a future like futurama with bottled brains


----------



## awdrifter

While we don't have a good understanding of our consciousness yet, we have a pretty good understanding of how cells divide and repair our organs, since the brain is biological it will decay like all our other organs. So brain in a jar is probably not going to give us immortality. Maybe it won't be possible to transfer consciousness, but research in this direction is still a good thing imo.


----------



## StormX2

I just think they shouldnt call it the immortality project.

I mean, if the world explodes, you probobly wont survive. if you did survive, there is no Power, unless you got mad solar ability

Started thinking about this.. What if this really is a crock pot deal, what if it is a Conspiracy from Russia, to bring the worlds top Money Holders to gether, just to be Killed or extorted etc.

Lets say not fake, and can happen in the time line suggested, this is the only reason why I could see it worthwhile

Make a backup/Hologram version of all the greatest thinkers, Teachers, Doctors, Theorists etc, and have there minds be preserverd so that we could consult these people for as long as long as the infrastructure lasts i guess.

thats the downsite really, we humans most likely wont have the lives we have now in the next 200-300 years. Im certain that things will be much more Dark and lacking of Elecrticity

the only immportality im interested in really, is /godmode on

I want to be able to survive my no matter what happens forever and ever.


----------



## -ToXiC-

pffftt....... poppycock and all that jazz!

There is simply no way that these goals can ever be close to met. In 20 years I am to believe we will be transplanting human brains into a robot with a life support system? As propostorous as it claims, and it is propostorous... if it is EVER done you can bet we will not be able to afford it. All that will happen is middle class and lower who occupy manufacturing jobs and construction type industries will be replaced with free disposable robotic "avatars". Thus driving middle to lower class people to be totally dependant on government programs which will start a chain reaction in the economy.. so on and so forth... sigh.

And since when does Russia have any money to spend on crap like this anyway?? Need to send some collectors over there to break some legs!


----------



## DrCatHands

Has anyone realized this won't be for the regular joe? Only the elites will have this, if possible. That's how it's always been, and how it will continue to be.


----------



## voxox

Has anyone stopped and thought that this pile or wasteful imagination will NEVER happen?

For love of humanity, invest this money in schools, education, real scientific research and development and not in bull waste.

I will guarantee you that this topic and its followers in general will eventually die. You get it...? NO...? Ah nvm... I'm going to sleep.


----------



## biltong

Computers do what they're told, they don't think. They can't learn by themselves, they don't "pick things up". I'd prefer to stay human, thanks.


----------



## crossy82

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nutty*
> 
> I don't want to live forever, I want to eventually die.


Lol,oh you will,as the article states this is only for the super rich.









I guess thats what they think will further humanity,its all starting to make sense...only the privilidged/filthy rich make society work and can carry humanity to the next level.









Its kinda funny,as without the poor and working class they wont be rich anymore.In fact they stand to wish they would'nt live forever,who is gonna provide food,clean water,essential services and manafacture?


----------



## dave12

I like frickfrock, but I vote the thread be closed and he gets suspended based on teh absurdity of the topic and the placement in the news.


----------



## TheRockMonsi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *biltong*
> 
> Computers do what they're told, they don't think. They can't learn by themselves, they don't "pick things up". I'd prefer to stay human, thanks.


This was my biggest concern; transferring the consciousness of a person onto an artificial carrier is one thing, but if that can happen will the consciousness be able to grow? As in, if you get your conscious transferred when you're a kid, will you stay a kid forever? Will you never be able to grow smarter as a result of moving onto the artificial carrier? That is the most important thing that needs to be figured out in my opinion, preserving the ability to progress the mind.

With that aside, do I see this happening so soon? No, not really. If it does happen, I don't see this world getting any better as a result of it.

Quote:


> *Yearly plan*
> 
> - creation of a social online network _Immortal.me_


LOL









I just thought that was funny.


----------



## Lt.AldoRaine

But they need to cure baldness first...


----------



## skyn3t

un-subbed


----------



## Nebel

Damn, this almost makes me want to become one of the richest people in the world.


----------



## Nebel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *-ToXiC-*
> 
> pffftt....... poppycock and all that jazz!
> There is simply no way that these goals can ever be close to met. In 20 years I am to believe we will be transplanting human brains into a robot with a life support system? As propostorous as it claims, and it is propostorous... if it is EVER done you can bet we will not be able to afford it. All that will happen is middle class and lower who occupy manufacturing jobs and construction type industries will be replaced with free disposable robotic "avatars". Thus driving middle to lower class people to be totally dependant on government programs which will start a chain reaction in the economy.. so on and so forth... sigh.
> And since when does Russia have any money to spend on crap like this anyway?? Need to send some collectors over there to break some legs!


Ignorance. At least whatever country you're coming from is using its money to make richer people rich, huh? Capitalism, pfft.


----------



## bigkahuna360

I pity the people who wish to live forever. I would like to die be able to die. Juat thinking about it for a second but what happens when the harddrive your stored on dies? What happens when there is no one to replace those harddrives when it becomes a "luxury" to be stored?


----------



## danflood94

I'm cool with the brain transplant so I know I'm alive but the hologram thing scares me


----------



## tombom

I'll be like 50 when this could potentially happen. AWESOME.


----------



## losttsol

Unfortunately, many young people are taking to atheism and science is becoming their new religion. They think they will be able to live forever if they just live long enough to see some major scientific breakthrough. The fact is that no person is immortal. Any machine that man creates can easily be destroyed, including this one.


----------



## USFORCES

That video is a joke just like back in the 70's we thought would be travling the universe by 1999, anyhow without my body trapped in conciousness or in a robot I'd rather be unpluged/dead, thank you
Even in dream state you would come to the conclusion that you were trapped not being able to feel or move would drive you crazy, you would probably end up with a psychopath. It's not a good idea putting a psychopaths brain in a robot or android


----------



## Rayleyne

Screw the soul, give me a robot body, And tell me how to overclock it.


----------



## m3t4lh34d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> I'm all for a push for this kind of stuff, however I don't see this happening in 40 years. Anyone seen Back to the Future 2 in 1985, how many people back then thought that in 30 years we'd actually have things like hoverboards, hovercars, hydrators that could cook a pizza in 3 seconds, etc. Technology has advanced quite a bit in those 30 years, but do we really think we'll have fully holographic humans with a real consciousness living among us? I highly doubt it. Maybe in 75-80 years..., maybe.


In 1985 technology was not advancing at anywhere NEAR the rate it is now. When you factor Moore's law into things, as technological capability doubles every 18 months, eventually you hit a critical mass where those doublings of performance start to equate to drastic improvements in power. Just like going from 2 to 4 to 8 to 16 to 32, and so on...

Conceptualizing the '32' per say while still at the '2' level is of course not an easy task, and seems impossible at the time. But given the growth that has been seen over those past 30 years, we can determine with reasonable certainty, the time in which we will reach the computational power of the human brain. That time is said to be between 2025 and 2035, if Moore's law stays true. Some say we will hit the limits of silicon and Moore's law will disintegrate, but those people haven't seen the leaps and bounds that have been accomplished in the realm of quantum computing, and the research done into hybrid biological computation. All it takes is ONE large breakthrough like a working quantum computer, that would provide 5x-10x the computational output of the greatest supercomputers of today, and we would get the kick start to creating the building blocks of a synthetic human mind.

Once we have access to levels of intelligence and cognitive learning ability beyond our own, who knows what the possibilities are? We certainly don't, as we ourselves cannot think on such a level. Imagine what can be done when your toolbox consists of intelligence far beyond our own? The limits of creativity are boundless.

It's like giving someone a pocket knife and another person a GPS and dropping them both into the middle of nowhere. Of course the person with the better tools is going to succeed. It's all about your tool belt, and humanity is building a rather impressive tool belt. I can only imagine what can be done with such processing power. Understanding the fundamentals of our Universe, ourselves, and life itself.


----------



## Mwarren

I don't buy it, copying one's consciousness or "soul" does not seem possible to me. It would be the same thing as if someone made an exact clone of you, it would resemble and share the same memory's as you but it still wouldn't be "you". I personally believe based on my own perspective that consciousness and the soul is one thing that science will truly never be able to emulate or completely understand as it is beyond our senses, it is the whole essence of the human condition and if you think about it "you" can't be in two body's at the same time, the body is the seat of the soul.

I think that if this ever did go through scientists would come to realize that the emulated version of the human doesn't have a consciousness and it in essence an empty robot while the original form retains a soul and thus a consciousness. A consciousness/soul is unique to each individual person and cannot be copied.

Anyways, I definitely wouldn't want to be immortal, life itself is suffering and impermanent not to mention all that this is doing is adhering to the survivalist nature of the standard conditioned human mind. All that this technology shows to me is how much clinging humans do to life itself and therefore suffer and will continue to suffer due to their ignorance.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE*
> 
> No such thing as immortality in a physical sense in my opinion. You would only be delaying the inevitable. We all change, that is the only one constant, you cannot preserve a human or the true essence of a human being inevitably. We are meant to die and change into a different form of energy. Otherwise our lives and the essence of our lives would become diluted, I would rather die than linger on. I guess it all comes down to each person Philosophical beliefs, but this would not be me. To die and be remembered for what I truly was and what I had achieved is what I want. Existence in one form should be finite, otherwise how do we define ourselves ? The time by which we are limited to is our pushing factor to achieve and to better ourselves. With an Infinite existence you take away one if not the largest fundamental points of what makes us Human.
> 
> As far as I see it, while we may not stay in one singular form, we are all immortal, we simply change. Nothing truly dies.


This exactly, people that have an understanding of interdependence would understand that we truly are immortal and that this concept of "birth and death" are actually false and should not exist. All that "death" is, is the changing from being a human being conditioned to your own genetics to another form unless you're one of the few that can escape your own genetics and develop a great understanding of what existence is.

People are afraid to die because they are conditioned by their genetics to want to continue to grow and expand them, in a sense they cling to their own human condition when in fact all conditions lead to suffering in the end. In fact, there is nothing to fear in this thing we call death as it is the transfer from one state of being to another, this isn't even diving into the idea of reincarnation which has been scientifically studied and even supported by evidence and which should also be common sense to most people as if you can be born once why cant you be born again just in the seat of another body?

I hate to point to a philosophy but this really points to Buddhism about how far in great lengths that people will go and how much suffering they will undertake (researching and work, not being happy with their present state) to try to extend their human conditioning vs being happy, content, and peaceful with the present instead of being afraid of "death" and being a slave to your own genetics and clinging to them vs developing a great understanding of what reality really is.


----------



## m3t4lh34d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> I don't buy it, copying one's consciousness or "soul" does not seem possible to me. It would be the same thing as if someone made an exact clone of you, it would resemble and share the same memory's as you but it still wouldn't be "you". I personally believe based on my own perspective that consciousness and the soul is one thing that science will truly never be able to emulate or completely understand as it is beyond our senses, it is the whole essence of the human condition and if you think about it "you" can't be in two body's at the same time, the body is the seat of the soul.
> I think that if this ever did go through scientists would come to realize that the emulated version of the human doesn't have a consciousness and it in essence an empty robot while the original form retains a soul and thus a consciousness. A consciousness/soul is unique to each individual person and cannot be copied.
> Anyways, I definitely wouldn't want to be immortal, life itself is suffering and impermanent not to mention all that this is doing is adhering to the survivalist nature of the standard conditioned human mind. All that this technology shows to me is how much clinging humans do to life itself and therefore suffer and will continue to suffer due to their ignorance.
> This exactly, people that have an understanding of interdependence would understand that we truly are immortal and that this concept of "birth and death" are actually false and should not exist. All that "death" is, is the changing from being a human being conditioned to your own genetics to another form unless you're one of the few that can escape your own genetics and develop a great understanding of what existence is.
> People are afraid to die because they are conditioned by their genetics to want to continue to grow and expand them, in a sense they cling to their own human condition when in fact all conditions lead to suffering in the end. In fact, there is nothing to fear in this thing we call death as it is the transfer from one state of being to another, this isn't even diving into the idea of reincarnation which has been scientifically studied and even supported by evidence and which should also be common sense to most people as if you can be born once why cant you be born again?
> I hate to point to a philosophy but this really points to Buddhism about how far in great lengths that people will go and how much suffering they will undertake (researching and work, not being happy with their present state) to try to extend their human conditioning vs being happy, content, and peaceful with the present instead of being afraid of "death" and being a slave to your own genetics and clinging to them vs developing a great understanding of what reality really is which are just our human senses.


This technology is not all about transferring our 'soul'. Whether you like it or not, there will always be people with the $$ and power when the time comes that this tech is viable to make use of it. Imagine what could be accomplished if some of the most intelligent physicists and philosophers of our history were given the chance at a longer lifetime, and learning capability. Who wouldn't want to be given the chance to be immortal? To learn as easily as updating virus definitions on your PC. A simple software update.

The fact is, none of us know whether this is possible or not, as at this current time, we do NOT understand the brian, whatsoever. Once the mind is completely mapped and the tech is available to simulate said mind, the possibilities are endless.

If 100 people were given the oppurtunity to take a blue pill and live for thousands of years, or take a red pill and fade away, most would choose immortality. It is the nature of the animal kingdom to survive. To not make use of ones intelligence and tools is foolish.

You can also look at it as the fact that you are not transferring your soul or the actual physical consciousness over, you are simply duplicating it. You are creating a replica of yourself. A duplicate with your same memories and consciousness. That duplicate would then live on forever and would serve as a testament to your long forgotten human shell. I feel there is much more to be learned about this tech before any moral conclusions can be made about it.


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## Mwarren

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m3t4lh34d*
> 
> This technology is not all about transferring our 'soul'. Whether you like it or not, there will always be people with the $$ and power when the time comes that this tech is viable to make use of it. Imagine what could be accomplished if some of the most intelligent physicists and philosophers of our history were given the chance at a longer lifetime, and learning capability. Who wouldn't want to be given the chance to be immortal? To learn as easily as updating virus definitions on your PC. A simple software update.
> The fact is, none of us know whether this is possible or not, as at this current time, we do NOT understand the brian, whatsoever. Once the mind is completely mapped and the tech is available to simulate said mind, the possibilities are endless.
> If 100 people were given the oppurtunity to take a blue pill and live for thousands of years, or take a red pill and fade away, most would choose immortality. It is the nature of the animal kingdom to survive. To not make use of ones intelligence and tools is foolish.
> You can also look at it as the fact that you are not transferring your soul or the actual physical consciousness over, you are simply duplicating it. You are creating a replica of yourself. A duplicate with your same memories and consciousness. That duplicate would then live on forever and would serve as a testament to your long forgotten human shell. I feel there is much more to be learned about this tech before any moral conclusions can be made about it.


The problem with that is that even if your duplicate would live forever "you" being your conscious and soul would still die thus making this technology pointless. This also means that a duplicate of yourself even if it had the same mind and body would still be a different person due to there being a different consciousness or no conscious at all in the duplicated body. Also, it's in my opinion that all of the advances in science, technology, philosophy, etc are pointless as in the end everything will cease to exist in their current condition and move onto another condition after they "die".

All of the medical and other technology in the end does not matter as even that stuff is subject to impermanence and in the end nothing is worth clinging to, this technology is just trying to adhere to the condition of the human survivalist mind instead of trying to swim against the wave and understand reality and this condition that we all live in for what it is. So yes, I would choose the red pill as I know that true peace comes from being free from the human mind that tends to cling to emotions and is conditioned to be a slave to its own genes and society when it is born.


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## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mwarren*
> 
> The problem with that is that even if your duplicate would live forever "you" being your conscious and soul would still die thus making this technology pointless. This also means that a duplicate of yourself even if it had the same mind and body would still be a different person due to there being a different consciousness or no conscious at all in the duplicated body. Also, it's in my opinion that all of the advances in science, technology, philosophy, etc are pointless as in the end everything will cease to exist in their current condition and move onto another condition after they "die".
> All of the medical and other technology in the end does not matter as even that stuff is subject to impermanence and in the end nothing is worth clinging to, this technology is just trying to adhere to the condition of the human survivalist mind instead of trying to swim against the wave and understand reality and this condition that we all live in for what it is. So yes, I would choose the red pill as I know that true peace comes from being free from the human mind that tends to cling to emotions and is conditioned to be a slave to its own genes and society when it is born.


That the problem i see too. Same idea with Cloning. How would you know if its the real person. I think the only way to really know is if you can transfer your Soul to a different body and at the same time you see ur real empty body next to you. Then being able to go back to you real body and getting the experience of soul transfer concept. Only then you would know for sure you are the Original.


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## Solarin

Why did that whole video seem like a bad viral marketing campaign for a movie?


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## perfectblade

based on my own life experiences, i wouldn't want to live forever.


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## Kevlo

The two most dangerous things I think the human race could create are time-travel and the ability to make humans immortal.


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## xK1LLSW1TCHx127

and to think, a few years ago I started telling my friends the next step in human evolution was to become transcendent beings... Heck, it all sounds great now, but let's face it, none of it matters. We're bound to screw up at some point. As many of you have pointed out there are errors here. It is against our nature live at peace, call it a utopia, whatever. and anyways, living forever really sounds like hell, we're not mean to. People forget that we are a part of nature, and if we want to break away from nature and simply exist, we must replace nature itself, something which, even by 2045, is probably not going to happen. We will exile ourselves from our very essence! I will stop ranting now


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## Mondrayish

I think the guys that are saying they want to die and those questioning whether the clone/copy would be the same person are missing the point of the potential for such technology.

Start asking "how will this benefit society?" instead of "how will this benefit me?". Think from a utilitarian perspective and this sort of technology all of sudden begins to make a little sense.

1. Whether that copy/clone is still you is irrelevant to the rest of society.
So who cares if it's not you? As far as the rest of society can tell, that copy/clone is still you. It's got your exact physical characteristics, memories, intelligence, personality and so forth.

2. Some lives are worth more than others.
As harsh as it sounds, this sort of technology would be a waste to be used on the average Joe or the... below average. Last thing society needs is an immortal Justin Bieber, Snookie or Paris Hilton. The greatest benefit society would see from this sort of technology would be using it to preserve the greatest minds of our society. (i.e. Stephen Hawking, Briane Green, Michio Kaku, all the guys employed at NASA, etc.).


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## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xK1LLSW1TCHx127*
> 
> It is against our nature live at peace, call it a utopia, whatever. and anyways, living forever really sounds like hell, we're not mean to.


How can that be when humans are inherently good?


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## xK1LLSW1TCHx127

Well to you humans are inherently good. I don't see them as inherently bad, just random. I don't think it's possible to classify humans as good or bad, it all depends on the circumstances.


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## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xK1LLSW1TCHx127*
> 
> Well to you humans are inherently good. I don't see them as inherently bad, just random. I don't think it's possible to classify humans as good or bad, it all depends on the circumstances.


Possibly.
From what I've seen, kids are born with two sets of genes, good and bad. Seeing as how hair color, eye color, etc, are all determined by genes, it makes sense that inherent behaviors can be obtained like that.
In the end, it all boils down to what's in your blood.


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## xK1LLSW1TCHx127

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock99*
> 
> Possibly.
> From what I've seen, kids are born with two sets of genes, good and bad. Seeing as how hair color, eye color, etc, are all determined by genes, it makes sense that inherent behaviors can be obtained like that.
> In the end, it all boils down to what's in your blood.


First of all: love the picture for your rig and profile pic, I'm addicted to chocolate and so anything with chocolate is epic. Second: Now it's nature vs nurture. I don't think people are that simply, which is why I will never take a psychology class in my life. Sure Genetics are wonderful and help us truly understand the nature of all organisms we interact with, but I don't think they can ever apply to the human mind/conscience/whatever else, like I said, we're random. We have a choice. Our surroundings are altered by us. Normally we would act upon instinct to ensure our survival, but I don't think nature/ instincts have much of a place in our world where even people with some types of cancers and disabilities like blindness can thrive. I mean, it's great and all that the entire human race can be immortal and stuff, and I'm all for everyone having a shot at a pleasant life, I just don't think that will ever work as long as we remain within nature. And I will admit, existing purely through your conscience is a step forward in that direction as well as freaking sweet. We just need more steps like that. (sarcasm) I suggest we bring back the velociraptors and give them some fancy Russian avatars and see if they evolve into philosoraptors.


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## frickfrock999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xK1LLSW1TCHx127*
> 
> First of all: love the picture for your rig and profile pic, I'm addicted to chocolate and so anything with chocolate is epic. Second: Now it's nature vs nurture. I don't think people are that simply, which is why I will never take a psychology class in my life. Sure Genetics are wonderful and help us truly understand the nature of all organisms we interact with, but I don't think they can ever apply to the human mind/conscience/whatever else, like I said, we're random. We have a choice. Our surroundings are altered by us. Normally we would act upon instinct to ensure our survival, but I don't think nature/ instincts have much of a place in our world where even people with some types of cancers and disabilities like blindness can thrive. I mean, it's great and all that the entire human race can be immortal and stuff, and I'm all for everyone having a shot at a pleasant life, I just don't think that will ever work as long as we remain within nature. And I will admit, existing purely through your conscience is a step forward in that direction as well as freaking sweet. We just need more steps like that. (sarcasm) I suggest we bring back the velociraptors and give them some fancy Russian avatars and see if they evolve into philosoraptors.


Heh, fair enough good sir! You make a good point.


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## xK1LLSW1TCHx127

Thank you, I love your candy corner


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## intelfan

Sort of on or off topic. Human immortality has been achieved to an extent because cells from a woman who died in the 1950s. They're called HeLa cells, derived from Henrietta Lacks who had an aggressive type of cervical cancer, and are used for research to this day. Quite a fascinating read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeLa


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## Wiffinberg

Caprica series anyone? lol


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## xK1LLSW1TCHx127

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *intelfan*
> 
> Sort of on or off topic. Human immortality has been achieved to an extent because cells from a woman who died in the 1950s. They're called HeLa cells, derived from Henrietta Lacks who had an aggressive type of cervical cancer, and are used for research to this day. Quite a fascinating read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeLa


Yes I've read about those, great read =), but is simply having cells live forever true immortality? Or must there be more to consider an organism truly "alive"?


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## Buttermilk

When is this game coming out?


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## intelfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xK1LLSW1TCHx127*
> 
> Yes I've read about those, great read =), but is simply having cells live forever true immortality? Or must there be more to consider an organism truly "alive"?


That is debatable really and depends on what you consider "alive." I guess it fits the term but not necessarily what you picture. I recall in biology that an organism is considered alive due to certain characteristics. Since I'm so lazy, I just googled and took the first picture I saw. http://infohost.nmt.edu/~klathrop/7characterisitcs_of_life.htm


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## Samurai Batgirl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *frickfrock99*
> 
> How can that be when humans are inherently good?


Humans are not inherently good. The species could not be good and keep survivability at the forefront.

OT: I would not want to live forever. I'm not sure why people would want to. To be able to prolong your best years? That'd be nice. To live forever? Not so much.


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## xK1LLSW1TCHx127

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *intelfan*
> 
> That is debatable really and depends on what you consider "alive." I guess it fits the term but not necessarily what you picture. I recall in biology that an organism is considered alive due to certain characteristics. Since I'm so lazy, I just googled and took the first picture I saw. http://infohost.nmt.edu/~klathrop/7characterisitcs_of_life.htm


Yeah while I can't really argue with biology, what I'm getting at is the differentiation between philosophical existence and biological existence =) I'm a math and science guy, but I can't help but poke at philosophy when possible=) I guess the difference between the two is conscience, which he la cells don't have, but like you said, immortality has only been achieved to an extent, now if those cells became an autonomous organism with a conscience I think we could call immortality good. Next stop is time travel.


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## cre8ive65

Still no Halflife 3.


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## TopicClocker

Surrogates time








http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0986263/
That was a joke, At first I though cool alright, but they're still failing with cybernetics, at least that's what they want us to think they have advanced technology but they're not letting on for all I know we could be getting the scrapings








In 30 years time I can't really see this happening, there's been some prosthesis but I can't see the transferring of minds into artificial carriers, for all I know this could be a scam, there's cancer cures but there's still cancer research, that doesn't add up??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1OBzc9QfIs
There was a better one but I lost the link







but this is still amazing.


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## intelfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xK1LLSW1TCHx127*
> 
> Yeah while I can't really argue with biology, what I'm getting at is the differentiation between philosophical existence and biological existence =) I'm a math and science guy, but I can't help but poke at philosophy when possible=) I guess the difference between the two is conscience, which he la cells don't have, but like you said, immortality has only been achieved to an extent, now if those cells became an autonomous organism with a conscience I think we could call immortality good. Next stop is time travel.


I don't think you can ever achieve immortality of an organism with a conscience, even if it is, it won't be replaceable. Every copy is unique and from the way I see it, identical twins have the same DNA (almost like cloning) but they act differently. I might be wrong on some stuff so please feel free to correct or state your opinion.


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## xK1LLSW1TCHx127

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *intelfan*
> 
> I don't think you can ever achieve immortality of an organism with a conscience, even if it is, it won't be replaceable. Every copy is unique and from the way I see it, identical twins have the same DNA (almost like cloning) but they act differently. I might be wrong on some stuff so please feel free to correct or state your opinion.


I agree with you to an extent. I don't think full immortality is attainable, but I do believe that there is a way to exist as only q conscience, maybe in the form of a force, and idea, there has to be a way to simply be, call it God mode or whatever but I think it's possible, and I think science will get there at some point, not by 2045 though, we're not ready for it.


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## OIburnedit

Yea!!!!! So now we can have the ubuer rich living forever. I think before we start living way past our usable life times, should we not control the 7 billion people here now? By 2050 the expected population is estimated to be 20 billion. This planet can not sustain what we have now. *** are these idiots thinking? Just sayin.


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