# How to decide on a case for air cooling (warning - pics)



## Norlig

didnt I see this thread already?









good guide though


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## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pangeltveit;13870429*
> didnt I see this thread already?
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> good guide though


I put it together as a thread because we have discussed it many times in other thread. The topic deserves its own thread.


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## audioxbliss

What's weird is, the forward-most top 140mm on my P193 DOES clear the push fan on my Mugen 2, if just barely. In my friend's Beta Evo, the measurements seem almost identical. No idea what happened.


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## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *audioxbliss;13870963*
> What's weird is, the forward-most top 140mm on my P193 DOES clear the push fan on my Mugen 2, if just barely. In my friend's Beta Evo, the measurements seem almost identical. No idea what happened.


What motherboard is he using? The cpu position differs on different mb's.


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## audioxbliss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;13871007*
> What motherboard is he using? The cpu position differs on different mb's.


He's using my old M4A88TD-V EVO. Same mobo that I had in here when I first built the rig, but still off. A little weird...


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## iCrap

Antec cases arn't all that bad. I can do the EXACT same thing except for the top front intake fan. I can even have 3 front intake fans, whereas the Beta Evo has 2.

Speaking of which... should the top rear fan be intake or exhaust? in that video you linked they had a top rear only fan, and it was set to intake.


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## Tigerpaws

Very interesting

But i find i am usually always doing something to my pc within 6mths 12mths, i just get the compressor on to it and its perfectly clean again. But it really only needs a clean every 12mths, i guess it already has a positive pressure, if the fans are set right

My case VH6000BWS not the new smaller case VH8000 rubbish case, its fully grated at the front, I added a fan below the burners, still got the one below the hd's, plus you got the big side fan noisy turbine that i got running only at 800rpm to quiten the beast, its the only stock side fan, but all other fans i threw in the bin and replaced with new ones. The top fan is blowing in pressuring it more. To me i couldn't live without my VH6000. Could be the case you need?

Oh i tested mine ages ago with a mates bee-smoker(they use em calm the bees with), that guy has a better smoker to me, but after doing that my pc, it smelt of smoke for weeks


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## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tigerpaws;13874164*
> Very interesting
> 
> But i find i am usually always doing something to my pc within 6mths 12mths, i just get the compressor on to it and its perfectly clean again. But it really only needs a clean every 12mths, i guess it already has a positive pressure, if the fans are set right
> 
> My case VH6000BWS not the new smaller case VH8000 rubbish case, its fully grated at the front, I added a fan below the burners, still got the one below the hd's, plus you got the big side fan noisy turbine that i got running only at 800rpm to quiten the beast, its the only stock side fan, but all other fans i threw in the bin and replaced with new ones. The top fan is blowing in pressuring it more. To me i couldn't live without my VH6000. Could be the case you need?
> 
> Oh i tested mine ages ago with a mates bee-smoker(they use em calm the bees with), that guy has a better smoker to me, but after doing that my pc, it smelt of smoke for weeks


That's why I'm happy to leave smoke tests to Silverstone.


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## TC_Fenua

Nice write up







If only I had this several months ago, haha.
Positive pressure is the way to go, I discovered that on the Silverstone website in their "Tech Talk" section, very informative.
You can check my build log to see my experiments with air cooling


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## 161029

Such a basic yet highly discussed topic needs its own thread. I don't feel so happy with using smoke for some reason so I'll use dry ice.


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## philologos

Any thoughts on the CM ATCS 840?


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## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TC_Fenua;13874411*
> Nice write up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If only I had this several months ago, haha.
> Positive pressure is the way to go, I discovered that on the Silverstone website in their "Tech Talk" section, very informative.
> You can check my build log to see my experiments with air cooling


Great shots. I haven't had time to read the text yet.

That shot of your D14 over your Dominators is sweet. Please post it in this thread.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philologos;13874639*
> Any thoughts on the CM ATCS 840?


Interesting case. Will revisit after work.


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## TC_Fenua

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;13878942*
> Great shots. I haven't had tim to read the text yet.
> 
> That shot of your D14 over your Dominators is sweet. Please post it in this thread.


Right away Sir


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## badatgames18

i take it that you spend a pretty penny on all these parts?

why not just go water?

but awesome.. a wind tunnel as a case ftw


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## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *philologos;13874639*
> Any thoughts on the CM ATCS 840?


Had to re-familiarize myself with that case.

It's about the most flexible case for airflow, but I'm not enamored with the plate covering the lower intake fan. There's lot's of room, though, for a 5.25 cage insert to put in a supplemental intake fan. Lots of room to play in, and you have that fan housing that goes in the back to pull air across your graphics cards. Overall, a good case.


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## van13330gg

Please show me some guidance =)
Is is set up okay? What should I change?


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## justin85

mountain mod cases are beast for air cooling or water cooling what ever you need they have in the case department


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## TC_Fenua

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *van13330gg;13960080*
> Please show me some guidance =)
> Is is set up okay? What should I change?


Try reversing the top and the door fans, then check your temps


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## van13330gg

Thanks for the suggestion!


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## joelmartinez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TC_Fenua;13961086*
> Try reversing the top and the door fans, then check your temps


Actually you probably won't see a benefit in reversing the top fan, but try the door fan.


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## Inverse

I don't see why you do not recommend Antec cases. Do you have actual scientific reasoning on why you would put an entire brand to the backburner despite its popularity?

My Antec 900-2 is an amazing case. It's technically a negative pressure case~ but has a ton of ways for me to get air into it. It's virtually the same as your case. I don't get a massive abundance of dust. I don't even know where you're getting this from.

The idea of it being a vacuum cleaner without a bag sounds catchy and nice on paper, but in practice this isn't true at all. My entire case is a wind tunnel.


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## audioxbliss

Antecs aren't the easiest to work with. Build quality is decent, but really, that's about as far as they go. With my P193, the wire management is horrendous (and was the same with my old P182 and my friend's 1200) not to mention there's far too little space between the mobo tray and the side panel, making wire tucks that much harder. And when you can't hide those cables away, they end up blocking air flow. Very few of their cases have dual top fans, meaning it's harder to get appropriately fresh air pushed to the CPU cooler.

I'm willing to work with my case, and I'm starting a hefty mod project next month to fit my water cooling, so it works for me. Most likely I'll go with a different company for my next case, though. This P193 is just too much of a PITA, especially considering how much easier everything was on my friend's Beta Evo and my other friend's HAF 932.


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## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *audioxbliss;13971322*
> Antecs aren't the easiest to work with. Build quality is decent, but really, that's about as far as they go. With my P193, the wire management is horrendous (and was the same with my old P182 and my friend's 1200) not to mention there's far too little space between the mobo tray and the side panel, making wire tucks that much harder. And when you can't hide those cables away, they end up blocking air flow. Very few of their cases have dual top fans, meaning it's harder to get appropriately fresh air pushed to the CPU cooler.
> 
> I'm willing to work with my case, and I'm starting a hefty mod project next month to fit my water cooling, so it works for me. Most likely I'll go with a different company for my next case, though. This P193 is just too much of a PITA, especially considering how much easier everything was on my friend's Beta Evo and my other friend's HAF 932.


This. Every bit of this.


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## iCrap

I'm going to re-mod my 300. Adding a bottom, and top front fan. Also cutting cable management holes. THEN my Antec will be somewhat decent


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## audioxbliss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iCrap;13972766*
> I'm going to re-mod my 300. Adding a bottom, and top front fan. Also cutting cable management holes. THEN my Antec will be somewhat decent


Yay! I'll be cutting a massive hole in the top of my case to fit a Koolance shroud and a 360mm rad, then chopping/expanding some holes in the motherboard tray. If I could figure out a way to give myself more room behind the tray, I'd totally do it.


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## Velathawen

I wish I found this thread 2 years ago before buying my P183 >_>


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## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iCrap;13972766*
> I'm going to re-mod my 300. Adding a bottom, and top front fan. Also cutting cable management holes. THEN my Antec will be somewhat decent


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *audioxbliss;13972930*
> Yay! I'll be cutting a massive hole in the top of my case to fit a Koolance shroud and a 360mm rad, then chopping/expanding some holes in the motherboard tray. If I could figure out a way to give myself more room behind the tray, I'd totally do it.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Velathawen;13977138*
> I wish I found this thread 2 years ago before buying my P183 >_>


I'm not sure how much difference a bottom fan makes. I cut a hole in the bottom of my Beat Evo and put a fan there, but I'm not sure if it made any difference. I have removed the fan and blocked off the hole, and I haven't really seen any changes.


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## Inverse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *audioxbliss;13971322*
> Antecs aren't the easiest to work with. Build quality is decent, but really, that's about as far as they go. With my P193, the wire management is horrendous (and was the same with my old P182 and my friend's 1200) not to mention there's far too little space between the mobo tray and the side panel, making wire tucks that much harder. And when you can't hide those cables away, they end up blocking air flow. Very few of their cases have dual top fans, meaning it's harder to get appropriately fresh air pushed to the CPU cooler.
> 
> I'm willing to work with my case, and I'm starting a hefty mod project next month to fit my water cooling, so it works for me. Most likely I'll go with a different company for my next case, though. This P193 is just too much of a PITA, especially considering how much easier everything was on my friend's Beta Evo and my other friend's HAF 932.


Outside of the statement of a second fan on the top~ you've said absolutely nothing about its capacity for air cooling on an air cooling thread in an air cooling forum.

There was no reason at all for the OP to blast all Antec cases. Hell based on post history he even owned one.

OP~ you do great things for the forum. I can tell, but just because you had an ill experience with one of your cases, think long and hard before just slamming an entire brand for the purpose of a degree or two celcius~ especially when you don't really have any just cause for it.

Some of you are going to have to really tell me the issue with cable management as well. Are you guys experiencing only the first version of some of these cases? The Antec 900-2 has more holes than I know what to do with. Not having a dual-top fan is mitigated by the fact that the 200mm fan at the top is flippin' awesome.

It's not perfect, but it's a midtower case. The only negative I have with it is having to unscrew drive bays to get to my dust filters. I wouldn't tell people to boycott Antec because of that. lol (I'm just teasing here~)

The Beta Evo is a nice case for instance, it's got the exact same cutouts for cables as the Antec 900-2 and it's way cheaper. Then again it doesn't come with anything but the front fan for cooling so it better be.

Sorry~ just set my trigger off a bit with that. *laughs*

Anyway if you want to use ehume's unorthadox, but very practical method of CPU cooling, you're obviously going to need a no-nonsense case that can be modified with things like forward facing top fans. I just think it's funny that you have a thread celebrating negative pressure and then have this one dictating positive pressure as the way to go.


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## TC_Fenua

About Antec, I had a Nine Hundred v1 for more than 3 years and it was awesome at cooling, and very silent too, but it was the meeting point of all the dust that came inside my computer room







And the cable management was non existant, I had to remove the middle bay to be able to install a GTX280 back then, it was spaghetti-city inside















For the price, it's a great case, but nowadays if I hadn't buy a HAF-X, I would go for a CM-690 II.


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## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Inverse;13979380*
> Outside of the statement of a second fan on the top~ you've said absolutely nothing about its capacity for air cooling on an air cooling thread in an air cooling forum.
> 
> There was no reason at all for the OP to blast all Antec cases. Hell based on post history he even owned one.
> 
> OP~ you do great things for the forum. I can tell, but just because you had an ill experience with one of your cases, think long and hard before just slamming an entire brand for the purpose of a degree or two celcius~ especially when you don't really have any just cause for it.
> 
> Some of you are going to have to really tell me the issue with cable management as well. Are you guys experiencing only the first version of some of these cases? The Antec 900-2 has more holes than I know what to do with. Not having a dual-top fan is mitigated by the fact that the 200mm fan at the top is flippin' awesome.
> 
> It's not perfect, but it's a midtower case. The only negative I have with it is having to unscrew drive bays to get to my dust filters. I wouldn't tell people to boycott Antec because of that. lol (I'm just teasing here~)
> 
> The Beta Evo is a nice case for instance, it's got the exact same cutouts for cables as the Antec 900-2 and it's way cheaper. Then again it doesn't come with anything but the front fan for cooling so it better be.
> 
> Sorry~ just set my trigger off a bit with that. *laughs*
> 
> Anyway if you want to use ehume's unorthadox, but very practical method of CPU cooling, you're obviously going to need a no-nonsense case that can be modified with things like forward facing top fans. I just think it's funny that you have a thread celebrating negative pressure and then have this one dictating positive pressure as the way to go.


I did that negative pressure thread to make a point, not outline a practical cooling method. I was demonstrating the power of entrainment.

As for my "unorthodox" airflow recommendations, I note that since the original bottom-up plan was formulated the insides of computer boxes have greatly changed. In the past the motherboard was full of chipsets that needed to be cooled. The cpu was not so difficult to cool. Often passive heatsinks did the job.

Now it is the cpu heatsink that is hot. RAM is down to 1.5v. The northbridge is on-die the cpu. The memory management is now on-die. More and more, the motherboard components can make do with passive cooling while the cpu must be cooled actively.

Nowadays when those mobo components cool themselves they warm the air around them, and the received wisdom on bottom-up airflow would have us ingesting that warmed air into our coolers, compromising their effectiveness. More and more, the cpu needs to get its air directly from the outside.

As for Antec cases, I look at them very carefully. It's not just my own NSK 4480-II that sucked. What I'm seeing is old designs given trivial updates, and still being sold to unwitting, trusting buyers who can't really tell they are buying an outmoded case. It's really disgusting that they are still selling those things, IMO. They get away with it because people keep buying them. Why change when you don't have to? It's as bad as vendors selling 1.5v RAM with huge ego-combs for heatsinks.

That's why I don't like Antec cases. That said, their DF-85 tests out as being an effective cooler of its innards. I haven't studied its cable management, though. That's an element where Antec cases traditionally suck - and I'm not talking about air, now.


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## Inverse

Keep in mind, unorthodox isn't meant as an insult. If anything it's praise for discovering something out of the norm.

I definitely see the point of your setup. The more I looked at it the more I wish this setup was adopted by more cases. Having a fan blowing cool air in a position where the cpu can get it most is very smart. I'll admit, I'll definitely be looking for cases with the capacity to have two fans (like many of the Lian-Lis) in the future.

Do you see this as effective enough that it should become a new 'norm' for case design? Like, if it had to have one top fan~ that it be set in the center, or front~ and be used as an intake from default?


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## ehume

I'm working on concepts ATM. But I think that case makers should look more at delivering fresh air to heatsinks.

Lian Li, for example, has a case where air can come directly to the heatsink. The motherboard is inverted, so the heatsink is at the bottom. The air comes in from the back. Right now it exits from the front, but one user modded his to have an exhaust port at the top: the case was getting hot inside, despite a front exhaust.

I wish more manufacturers would build their cases with no rear grill.

Stuff like that.

When I'm done thinking I'll post my ideas.


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## Velathawen

So just for fun, last night I decided to try a few different orientations for my P183.

Originally I had 2 x frontal intake, 1 x rear exhaust, 1 x top exhaust as per the default layout. My 2600K was peaking 79C during the hottest times of day running 4.7 @ 1.384v. I changed the top exhaust to an intake and had only the rear exhaust as an exhaust. In addition, I changed the orientation of my Cogage Arrow from vertical to horizontal. Both of these changes combined now allow me to find my 2600k folding bigadv happily at 67C max. With close to 12C difference, I'm beginning to wonder if my initial installation was done properly or not. There's no way such a simple air flow change could lead to 12C in temperature differences.


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## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Velathawen;13987306*
> So just for fun, last night I decided to try a few different orientations for my P183.
> 
> Originally I had 2 x frontal intake, 1 x rear exhaust, 1 x top exhaust as per the default layout. My 2600K was peaking 79C during the hottest times of day running 4.7 @ 1.384v. I changed the top exhaust to an intake and had only the rear exhaust as an exhaust. In addition, I changed the orientation of my Cogage Arrow from vertical to horizontal. Both of these changes combined now allow me to find my 2600k folding bigadv happily at 67C max. With close to 12C difference, I'm beginning to wonder if my initial installation was done properly or not. There's no way such a simple air flow change could lead to 12C in temperature differences.


Try the temps again, this time with the side panel off. Then remount your SA pointed south-north again, and again test temps with the side panel off to equalize the testing environment. When you're done you will know if there is a difference between orientations of the SA: vertical vs horizontal. Be sure to test results.


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## Siegfried262

Hey ehume,

Very interesting article and videos. I'd love to give the positive pressure cooling a try but my current case isn't the best for that concept.

With my Bitfenix Survivor I'm soon going to remove the rear grill and see if flipping the top 200mm fan yields positive results. The way it is currently with a 200mm intake, and a 200mm/120mm exhaust gives my case negative pressure which forms a heat pocket sometimes under my Gigabyte GTX 560ti which exhausts directly into the case.

But for way down the line (year or so) I've been looking at the Xigamatek Elysium as a true Monolith of a case. What do you think of this case for positive pressure cooling?
http://www.xigmatek.com/product.php?productid=122&type=specification


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## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Siegfried262;14159380*
> Hey ehume,
> 
> Very interesting article and videos. I'd love to give the positive pressure cooling a try but my current case isn't the best for that concept.
> 
> With my Bitfenix Survivor I'm soon going to remove the rear grill and see if flipping the top 200mm fan yields positive results. The way it is currently with a 200mm intake, and a 200mm/120mm exhaust gives my case negative pressure which forms a heat pocket sometimes under my Gigabyte GTX 560ti which exhausts directly into the case.
> 
> But for way down the line (year or so) I've been looking at the Xigamatek Elysium as a true Monolith of a case. What do you think of this case for positive pressure cooling?
> http://www.xigmatek.com/product.php?productid=122&type=specification


So close!

I love the fact that they have two stock "4 in 3" units to put 120mm fans in the 5.25 bay. This gives them wonderful flexibility in the front plane.

I love the bottom mesh - it's ready for any combination of fans or rads.

I like seeing such flexibility at the top - lots of possibilities for fans. But is the top set up with filters to allow for intake fans up there?

The case is 230mm wide. Is there room for an Archon? Or a Silver Arrow with the front fan riding up over medium-tall RAM like Ripjaws?

No mention of space behind the mb. Will have to wait for a review to know.

Still has a rear grill. What'sUpWithThat? (I think it's time for a new acronym - WUWT. Hmm. Urban Dictionary already has it.)

Overall, a supremely flexible case. My quibbles are just that - quibbles: the case ain't perfect. But it is a worthy competitor to the HAF X.


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## Siegfried262

Thanks for the input!

My thoughts with the Elysium would be to load the front spots (additional 5.25" to 120mm adapters where applicable) with fans for intake, load the top spots for intake (Either two 200mm or three 140mm depending on how the 200mm fans sound) and remove the rear fan/grill and see how that in itself performs. Though given the size of the case I wonder if adding any fans would be beneficial.

It'd be fun to do a thorough write-up of the case though, even if that's a number of months away with lots of testing.


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## g.androider

Hi *ehume*,

Sorry to bother you a bit.. I have a couple question to ask.

1. Right now I own a Corsair 600T and I'm ordering H60 mount with 2 Gentle Typhoon AP-15 as push-pull and 2 more GT's AP-15 as top fan exhaust. Front intake is still that lame 200mm stock fan *sigh* (can you help me with better fan to replace this "thing"?), my room is a non-air conditioned.
*The question is*: I want to make this lovely case into positive pressure, what and how should I do to make it happen?

2. My friend keep teasing me to replace this 600T into Silverstone FT02, and keep the H60 with the AP-15 as push-pull setting. As all we know, Silverstone FT02 is a decent positive pressure case.
*The question is*: Should I do this? (Considering the cost of modifying number 1 question is maybe higher than buying this Silverstone FT02)

I really like the idea of this positive pressure and i want my case become dust-less or minimum one. Really appreciate your comment/feedback..


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## somebodysb2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *g.androider;14167924*
> Hi *ehume*,
> 
> Sorry to bother you a bit.. I have a couple question to ask.
> 
> 1. Right now I own a Corsair 600T and I'm ordering H60 mount with 2 Gentle Typhoon AP-15 as push-pull and 2 more GT's AP-15 as top fan exhaust. Front intake is still that lame 200mm stock fan *sigh* (can you help me with better fan to replace this "thing"?), my room is a non-air conditioned.
> *The question is*: I want to make this lovely case into positive pressure, what and how should I do to make it happen?
> 
> 2. My friend keep teasing me to replace this 600T into Silverstone FT02, and keep the H60 with the AP-15 as push-pull setting. As all we know, Silverstone FT02 is a decent positive pressure case.
> *The question is*: Should I do this? (Considering the cost of modifying number 1 question is maybe higher than buying this Silverstone FT02)
> 
> I really like the idea of this positive pressure and i want my case become dust-less or minimum one. Really appreciate your comment/feedback..


The new RV03 cools better than the FT02/RV02-E. And you can also remove the gold strips if you don't like them.

And why are you getting a H60? a Antec Kuhler 920 gets the job done better


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## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *g.androider;14167924*
> Hi *ehume*,
> 
> Sorry to bother you a bit.. I have a couple question to ask.
> 
> 1. Right now I own a Corsair 600T and I'm ordering H60 mount with 2 Gentle Typhoon AP-15 as push-pull and 2 more GT's AP-15 as top fan exhaust. Front intake is still that lame 200mm stock fan *sigh* (can you help me with better fan to replace this "thing"?), my room is a non-air conditioned.
> *The question is*: I want to make this lovely case into positive pressure, what and how should I do to make it happen?
> 
> 2. My friend keep teasing me to replace this 600T into Silverstone FT02, and keep the H60 with the AP-15 as push-pull setting. As all we know, Silverstone FT02 is a decent positive pressure case.
> *The question is*: Should I do this? (Considering the cost of modifying number 1 question is maybe higher than buying this Silverstone FT02)
> 
> I really like the idea of this positive pressure and i want my case become dust-less or minimum one. Really appreciate your comment/feedback..


I'd say remove the HD cages, putting one back in the center position. Put one of your 120mm fans in the forward top position, and cover all the rest of the space up there. If you can bear to do it, cut out the rear grill (use side cutters or use this). That alone will allow you to do without a rear fan, and make sure your case never builds up any pressure.

Another thing you can do is to put a 120mm or 140mm fan in your 5.25 bay. See item 10 in my sig. Anyway, that's how I'd do it.


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## BBEG

I've got a few questions:

1) Wouldn't a front/high intake (like one in the 5.25 bay) work as well as a top intake, and leave the rear top opening for exhaust use? Intuitively I think yes, as the bay itself would limit a lot of the air movement into the case from dispersing to the sides, which the intake for a cooler would then carry the rest of the way to the motherboard and CPU cooler and eventually out the rear/high exhaust (be it fan or open window).

2) How does one manage air flow in cases with odd rectangular wire mesh panels on the rear? On my case, I can see this being one of the main areas air would be sucked into the case to feed the cooling mechanism on a GPU, but in any case I can see them being a way for recently-exhausted air to be sucked back in.

3) Keep or lose the metal GPU slot covers? I noticed you removed them in the examples in the first post, but would they not also be a potential air-intake for recently-vented air?


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## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BBEG;14170456*
> I've got a few questions:
> 
> 1) Wouldn't a front/high intake (like one in the 5.25 bay) work as well as a top intake, and leave the rear top opening for exhaust use? Intuitively I think yes, as the bay itself would limit a lot of the air movement into the case from dispersing to the sides, which the intake for a cooler would then carry the rest of the way to the motherboard and CPU cooler and eventually out the rear/high exhaust (be it fan or open window).
> 
> 2) How does one manage air flow in cases with odd rectangular wire mesh panels on the rear? On my case, I can see this being one of the main areas air would be sucked into the case to feed the cooling mechanism on a GPU, but in any case I can see them being a way for recently-exhausted air to be sucked back in.
> 
> 3) Keep or lose the metal GPU slot covers? I noticed you removed them in the examples in the first post, but would they not also be a potential air-intake for recently-vented air?


Which model Xion are you using?

I like upper font intake + forward top intake + closed rear top fan position so I can build up a wind tunnel effect. Recent results people have reported from the HAF X indicate that the ceiling is too tall in that case for a wind tunnel; so having both top fan positions dedicated to intake works better.

In my wind tunnel case, the grill that sits above/next to the heatsink does not appear to draw air in or expel air. YMMV. Hang a bit of tissue next to the grill and see what happens.

And if you want to know about those slot covers you will have to try it out.

Always: try it out. Theory gets lost in zillions of variations.


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## g.androider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *somebodysb2;14168000*
> The new RV03 cools better than the FT02/RV02-E. And you can also remove the gold strips if you don't like them.
> 
> And why are you getting a H60? a Antec Kuhler 920 gets the job done better


For *somebodysb2*, thanks for your suggestion to choose RV03 than FT02. But I'm a conservative builder, i like my case simple and elegan that's why i found Corsair 600T and FT02 more suitable to my "eyes"..

And as H60 than to Kuhler 920, I'm waiting for H80 to arrive in my country, and Kuhler is more expensive than H60. So, it's more of a use-it-before-the-main-cooler-arrive game. It's cheaper anyway and i'm planning to mount a push-pull setting on it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14169995*
> I'd say remove the HD cages, putting one back in the center position. Put one of your 120mm fans in the forward top position, and cover all the rest of the space up there. If you can bear to do it, cut out the rear grill (use side cutters or use this). That alone will allow you to do without a rear fan, and make sure your case never builds up any pressure.
> 
> Another thing you can do is to put a 120mm or 140mm fan in your 5.25 bay. See item 10 in my sig. Anyway, that's how I'd do it.


Thanks *ehume*, but this 600T had just arrived about 1 day ago. And as you can see in my system, all come in standard package (means for the fan I got from Corsair 600T package)

So, basically I'm not about to put a hole in this case (but I know your suggestion is flawless for a positive pressure, because I saw silverstone done so in their youtube video).

Then, what I need is a help on putting/setting for the right fan to mount in this case so I can create a positive pressure.
1. Where should I mount this H60 with push-pull setting?
2. Should I change my order of Gentle Typhoon AP-15 into AP-14 or lower for intake/exhaust case-fan?
3. I plan to replace front 200mm fan into 140mm fan which is better to supply intake, but still have no idea what to choose...








4. I'll take your suggestion to mount fan into 5.25" bay. But, I have a DVD R/RW device and a Lamptron FC5 to fill 2 of the 4 slot. Do I need to use 80mm or 90mm fan as a replace? What do you recommend?

Thanks for your attention to this noobie matter..


----------



## BBEG

This case, specifically. The only viable additional intake without using power tools on the case is in the 5.25 bay. The top vent at the back will either host an exhaust fan or nothing at all.

I'll take a few temp measurements of things as they are now and as I change them. Only had a desktop for two weeks and I'm already about to experiment.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *g.androider;14171232*
> Thanks *ehume*, but this 600T had just arrived about 1 day ago. And as you can see in my system, all come in standard package (means for the fan I got from Corsair 600T package)
> 
> So, basically I'm not about to put a hole in this case (but I know your suggestion is flawless for a positive pressure, because I saw silverstone done so in their youtube video).
> 
> Then, what I need is a help on putting/setting for the right fan to mount in this case so I can create a positive pressure.
> 1. Where should I mount this H60 with push-pull setting?
> 2. Should I change my order of Gentle Typhoon AP-15 into AP-14 or lower for intake/exhaust case-fan?
> 3. I plan to replace front 200mm fan into 140mm fan which is better to supply intake, but still have no idea what to choose...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4. I'll take your suggestion to mount fan into 5.25" bay. But, I have a DVD R/RW device and a Lamptron FC5 to fill 2 of the 4 slot. Do I need to use 80mm or 90mm fan as a replace? What do you recommend?
> 
> Thanks for your attention to this noobie matter..


I would try to live with the case before doing something drastic. In particular, I forgot about your H60. You don't need the kind of airflow we aircoolers need.

So, for the front 200mm fan use the stock fan. Set up the other 200mm fan as an exhaust. Try the H60 as exhaust and
as intake, then compare temps. Whatever works, go with that.

Since you may be using your GT's on your rad, stay with AP-15's. You can always reduce the Voltage later with your fan controller to reduce their rpm.

For 5.25 bay: depends on how deep the fan controller goes. If you look through item 10 in my sig, you will see that I put a 140mm fan in my 5.25 bay with only two slots free up front.

From experience I will tell you: 80mm and 92mm fans are not worth anything. Don't try to use them. If you can't fit a larger fan behind your fan controller, don't bother with any fan there.

Overall, with an H60 I am not sure a positive pressure case is the way to go. Try to keep it neutral.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BBEG;14171341*
> This case, specifically. The only viable additional intake without using power tools on the case is in the 5.25 bay. The top vent at the back will either host an exhaust fan or nothing at all.
> 
> I'll take a few temp measurements of things as they are now and as I change them. Only had a desktop for two weeks and I'm already about to experiment.


I can see that your case has only a rear vent on top. I hate cases like that. In other ways your case is very much like my case. I took out the HD cage on mine:










Experimenting is the way to go.


----------



## g.androider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14171978*
> So, for the front 200mm fan use the stock fan. Set up the other 200mm fan as an exhaust. Try the H60 as exhaust and
> as intake, then compare temps. Whatever works, go with that.
> 
> Since you may be using your GT's on your rad, stay with AP-15's. You can always reduce the Voltage later with your fan controller to reduce their rpm.
> 
> For 5.25 bay: depends on how deep the fan controller goes. If you look through item 10 in my sig, you will see that I put a 140mm fan in my 5.25 bay with only two slots free up front.
> 
> From experience I will tell you: 80mm and 92mm fans are not worth anything. Don't try to use them. If you can't fit a larger fan behind your fan controller, don't bother with any fan there.
> 
> Overall, with an H60 I am not sure a positive pressure case is the way to go. Try to keep it neutral.


Thanks for your effort to explain this to me.. I found out that for the 2 slot left on 5.25" bay can handle a 140mm fan on it..














(just need to mod a little just like you did on your sig).

1. What should I mount here? Thermalright TY-140 or Scythe Slip Stream 1700 RPM or Noctua fan?

2. About front and top fan, I did not "feel" enough air flowing from stock 200mm fan. How if I replace them with 120mm or 140mm fan? Do they need high RPM or lower ones? (front as intake and top as exhaust)


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *g.androider;14173904*
> Thanks for your effort to explain this to me.. I found out that for the 2 slot left on 5.25" bay can handle a 140mm fan on it..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (just need to mod a little just like you did on your sig).
> 
> 1. What should I mount here? Thermalright TY-140 or Scythe Slip Stream 1700 RPM or Noctua fan?
> 
> 2. About front and top fan, I did not "feel" enough air flowing from stock 200mm fan. How if I replace them with 120mm or 140mm fan? Do they need high RPM or lower ones? (front as intake and top as exhaust)


You did not feel much air from the 200mm because it is spread out over an eight-inch disk. You might feel more air from a 120mm disk, but actually get less overall airflow. Now, if you want higher velocity you can Velcro a 140mm fan there. But it will be louder. Quietness is why you would want a 200mm fan up front.

I have an Aerocool Shark 14cm in my 5.25 bay, hooked to its 7v line. But for less money you could get a YL D14SM-12 and a D14SL-12, and see which one you like better. They also come with LED's. Then there is the TR X-Silent 140.

There is a nice review of 140mm fans here.

Just make sure that before you put sleeve bearing fans to work, lube them. See item 3 in my sig.


----------



## g.androider

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14174060*
> You did not feel much air from the 200mm because it is spread out over an eight-inch disk. You might feel more air from a 120mm disk, but actually get less overall airflow. Now, if you want higher velocity you can Velcro a 140mm fan there. But it will be louder. Quietness is why you would want a 200mm fan up front.
> 
> I have an Aerocool Shark 14cm in my 5.25 bay, hooked to its 7v line. But for less money you could get a YL D14SM-12 and a D14SL-12, and see which one you like better. They also come with LED's. Then there is the TR X-Silent 140.
> 
> There is a nice review of 140mm fans here.
> 
> Just make sure that before you put sleeve bearing fans to work, lube them. See item 3 in my sig.


I'd already moved the HDD cage next to the PSU. I think I'll keep the 200mm front and search for best 200mm to replace it later (according to *Mergatroid*. NZXT 200mm will do best for intake in 600T).

Right now, I will focus more on 140mm fan for the 5.25" bay. I'm reading your link right now... Great post, *ehume*. Thanks..


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *g.androider;14174257*
> I'd already moved the HDD cage next to the PSU. I think I'll keep the 200mm front and search for best 200mm to replace it later (according to *Mergatroid*. NZXT 200mm will do best for intake in 600T).
> 
> Right now, I will focus more on 140mm fan for the 5.25" bay. I'm reading your link right now... Great post, *ehume*. Thanks..


Don't forget the link at the bottom that takes you to the 140mm.


----------



## DaXxJaPxX

what would your suggestion be for the df-85 case? Right now i got 3 120mm front intakes, a window 120mm intake, 2 120mm rear exhaust, 2 140mm top exhaust, and my cpu heatsink fans are directed upward instead of to the back of the case because it wouldn't clear my ram otherwise. And then a 40mm fan blowing air into each GPU intake. So far my case stays relatively cool, never hit over 67 on my SB @4.7. Id definitely be open to your thoughts/advice


----------



## ehume

adridu59 brought the Zalman Z9 Plus to my attention. It's wide enough: 8.13 inches / 207mm wide - very important. It has capacity for 140mm fans: 1 in front, 1 on bottom, two on top and one in the 5.25 bay (behind the IO panel). The side panel can handle a 140mm fan, too, if you use a fan that has 120mm screw holes. I like the mesh sides of the HD cage. All in all, an excellent case, and inexpensive.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaXxJaPxX;14176945*
> what would your suggestion be for the df-85 case? Right now i got 3 120mm front intakes, a window 120mm intake, 2 120mm rear exhaust, 2 140mm top exhaust, and my cpu heatsink fans are directed upward instead of to the back of the case because it wouldn't clear my ram otherwise. And then a 40mm fan blowing air into each GPU intake. So far my case stays relatively cool, never hit over 67 on my SB @4.7. Id definitely be open to your thoughts/advice


I'd say that given the orientation you must have with the DF-85, you've done all you can. The DF-85 is the only Antec case that has good cooling performance (look here). It does have features I'm not terribly happy with: tall ceiling, double 120mm rear fans:










I prefer low ceilings. Also, the cpu window could use some work:










(These pics are from this review.)

But as you've discovered, this case has the capacity to produce some serious airflow. Enjoy!


----------



## DaXxJaPxX

damn, i was hoping for some prolific new design to drop my temp 10c haha. YEa my set up is prety much identical to that except the cpu cooler is turned 90 degrees. I was thinkin of changnig the bottom of the 2 rear fans to an intake so it blows right onto the cpu. I was going to try to add an HDD fan, but with only 3 HDD slots and the top of the front 3 intakes being at the height of the ram, dont feel like it would add much. appreciate all ur insight though, i was always for negative pressure, looks like i might change my ways


----------



## chinesethunda

Hey ehme I had a question that has been bothering for the last few days

So i have the nzxt phantom, it is able to be similar to the situation you described for good air flow with front top 200mm fan pulling in air and blocking the back top one. I also have a sickleflow in my 5.25" bays and in the front bottom all as intake. The phantom also has a 200mm side fan as well as 2 120mm side intake fans, my bottom is just open grills with no fans in them at the moment, although I can put fans there. I also have the second hdd cage taken out.

Right now I have a sickleflow as an exhaust in the back along with the 2 up top as exhaust, but if I were to change the top to intake and blocked, and then take out the back one, can I manage good airflow even with the grill there? I live on school campus and can't really dremel the back of my case to take out the grill even though I would like to. So should I still go for the setup?

Also, I have a 140mm fan option in the front, right now i have a 120mm sickleflow, I was thinking of changing that to 140mm and I have the choice of the slipstream 1200rpm or 1700rpm, which do you think is better? I don't really mind the noise and it will be on a fan controller

Thanks


----------



## adridu59

I have one more question, how do you set airflow when using C-type CPU cooler (like Noctua NH-C12P SE14 or Noctua NH-C14) ? See image below.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14187623*
> Hey ehme I had a question that has been bothering for the last few days
> 
> So i have the nzxt phantom, it is able to be similar to the situation you described for good air flow with front top 200mm fan pulling in air and blocking the back top one. I also have a sickleflow in my 5.25" bays and in the front bottom all as intake. The phantom also has a 200mm side fan as well as 2 120mm side intake fans, my bottom is just open grills with no fans in them at the moment, although I can put fans there. I also have the second hdd cage taken out.
> 
> Right now I have a sickleflow as an exhaust in the back along with the 2 up top as exhaust, but if I were to change the top to intake and blocked, and then take out the back one, can I manage good airflow even with the grill there? I live on school campus and can't really dremel the back of my case to take out the grill even though I would like to. So should I still go for the setup?
> 
> Also, I have a 140mm fan option in the front, right now i have a 120mm sickleflow, I was thinking of changing that to 140mm and I have the choice of the slipstream 1200rpm or 1700rpm, which do you think is better? I don't really mind the noise and it will be on a fan controller
> 
> Thanks


I'm worried that with open bottom fan positions, you will be losing air that way if you turn your top fans to intake. One reason I advocate removing the rear grill is to get all resistance to exiting airflow out of the way, so the air will go where I want it to.

I removed my rear grill with side cutters. I followed with a file, then with a stone. Finally finished with a paint pen. Never used a Dremel tool.

If you're not comfortable with that, wait until you are home to do more work on your case.

KM2 1200 vs 1700: the 1700 would be wasted trying to draw through the rather restrictive front 5.25 grills.

If you decide to make your top fans intake, open the rear and use bottom intake fans.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59;14187682*
> I have one more question, how do you set airflow when using C-type CPU cooler (like Noctua NH-C12P SE14 or Noctua NH-C14) ? See image below.


If you have two fan positions up top, try setting them to intake. A gentle flow. Otherwise the air will blow by the cooler and tend to pull air out.

I haven't thought much about top-down coolers. One concept would be to go back to the early case designs that had a side intake tube for channeling air to the cpu heatsink. If you have an upper side intake postion, you might set that to intake and set up rear and top fans for exhaust, to draw the exhausted air from the sides of the top-down cooler out of the case. Still have to think about that some.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14191868*
> If you have two fan positions up top, try setting them to intake. A gentle flow. Otherwise the air will blow by the cooler and tend to pull air out.


Okay and what about the rear fan ? Should I let it in place ?


----------



## chinesethunda

the 140mm was for my bottom front fan where theres no restriction at all. I am leaving my sickleflow in the 5.25" bays just to get whatever air i can. So you suggest to use the top front fan as intake and leave the back top open? what about the back rear? should i open that as well or leave it as an exhaust fan?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14194139*
> the 140mm was for my bottom front fan where theres no restriction at all. I am leaving my sickleflow in the 5.25" bays just to get whatever air i can. So you suggest to use the top front fan as intake and leave the back top open? what about the back rear? should i open that as well or leave it as an exhaust fan?


If you are not going to cut out your rear grill, I would not suggest using your top fan as intake. I would leave it in the rear top position, and leave your rear fan in place as one of your exhaust fans.

Positive flow cases require care in tuning, or they will become positive pressure cases, with stagnant air and warm temperatures. Think flow. Think river. Going with the flow is good, once you have assured the existence of the flow.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59;14192604*
> Okay and what about the rear fan ? Should I let it in place ?


Yes. With a top-down cooler you bring air in through the side and blow it down onto the mb, where it scatters in all directions. The upper vidcard will block the downward airflow. The top and rear airflows will get captured by your top and rear exhaust fans. With an intake fan coming in from the front the frontward exhaust is deflected up . . . if you have something coming up from below to block it from deflecting down.

For both of you, sit down and work out your various air plans of paper. By taking the various variables into account you can do a better job than I can in planning: you know what your own variables are.


----------



## chinesethunda

Well right now both my top 200mm fans are exhaust as well as my back 120mm fan is exhaust. i have my cm212+ facing up with fresh air coming from the front and sides. I have yet to test it after it's been overclocked but I'll just have to test around. I want to eventually cut the back grill to have unobstructed air


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14194578*
> For both of you, sit down and work out your various air plans of paper. By taking the various variables into account you can do a better job than I can in planning: you know what your own variables are.


Yea you're right mate, thanks again for your help. Will see what can be done


----------



## MexGT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *somebodysb2;14168000*
> The new RV03 cools better than the FT02/RV02-E. And you can also remove the gold strips if you don't like them.
> 
> And why are you getting a H60? a Antec Kuhler 920 gets the job done better


http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2011/06/08/silverstone-raven-rv03-review/3

FT02 is still better.


----------



## Hoodcom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;13870379*
> 
> When I was done, I had created this airflow:


Hello ehume,

I have a Cooler Master CM690 II Advance case, which I can setup very closely to what you have in the picture there, however with some differences.

I have bought these fans: http://www.svc.com/y720dcd-25t1-gp.html 110CFM 16 dBa, and I planned to put one on the back 120mm grill, one in the 5.25" Drive bay like you have in another thread, one on the side panel, and one on the HDD bay all as intakes.

I also have another side intake fan behind the motherboard that blows behind it, that is an 80mm x 15mm fan, and I turned the top 140mm fan into an intake.

The Notctua D14 has it's stock fans at the moment still, and I also will be placing these vents in the PCI slot brackets:
http://www.svc.com/pci-300.html

Would this be a good air cooling solution for my case?

I have not blocked the top back 140MM slot yet, and I still have openings in the bottom of the case for two fans that are not being used.

Or is there a better flow solution that you know of that I can do for my case?

Here's the case at Cooler Master's site: http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=6638

And I was thinking of getting this side panel for it which will only allow one 120mm fan in the side: http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-Transparent-Acrylic-RA-692-KWN1/dp/B003AVMRP2]Amazon.com: Cooler Master CM 690 II Transparent Acrylic Side Window Panel RA-692-KWN1: Electronics[/URL]


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hoodcom;14202818*
> Hello ehume,
> 
> I have a Cooler Master CM690 II Advance case, which I can setup very closely to what you have in the picture there, however with some differences.
> 
> I have bought these fans: http://www.svc.com/y720dcd-25t1-gp.html 110CFM 16 dBa, and I planned to put one on the back 120mm grill, one in the 5.25" Drive bay like you have in another thread, one on the side panel, and one on the HDD bay all as intakes.


Flow-through airflow is good. But don't expect to move 110cfm at 16dB. Read the ad carefully. At lowest speed the fan is supposed to make 16dB noise. At highest speed it is supposed to push 110cfm. I suspect both are exaggerations, so expect 20+ dB at the low end, and no more than 100 cfm at the high end (and expect about 40dB of m=noise, too).

I have those fans. I'll be testing them on the D14 by and by.
Quote:


> I also have another side intake fan behind the motherboard that blows behind it, that is an 80mm x 15mm fan, and I turned the top 140mm fan into an intake.
> 
> The Notctua D14 has it's stock fans at the moment still, and I also will be placing these vents in the PCI slot brackets:
> http://www.svc.com/pci-300.html
> 
> Would this be a good air cooling solution for my case?


I just leave my slot covers off. One of these days I'm going to use my nibbler and get rid of those between-slot pillars.
Quote:


> I have not blocked the top back 140MM slot yet, and I still have openings in the bottom of the case for two fans that are not being used.
> 
> Or is there a better flow solution that you know of that I can do for my case?


Remove the rear grill. Move that back fan to the bottom. Block off the rear fan position. Here's my current airflow:










I'll be adjusting the airflow amounts soon, but you get the idea. Your case is perfect for this. It's better than mine.
Quote:


> And I was thinking of getting this side panel for it which will only allow one 120mm fan in the side: Amazon.com: Cooler Master CM 690 II Transparent Acrylic Side Window Panel RA-692-KWN1: Electronics


Looks like a square fan position. Put a 140mm fan there that has 120mm screw holes: Kaze Maru, Kaze Maru 2, TY-140.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14207558*
> Put a 140mm fan there that has 120mm screw holes: Kaze Maru, Kaze Maru 2, TY-140.


or Noctua NF-P14 FLX


----------



## Hoodcom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14207558*
> Flow-through airflow is good. But don't expect to move 110cfm at 16dB. Read the ad carefully. At lowest speed the fan is supposed to make 16dB noise. At highest speed it is supposed to push 110cfm. I suspect both are exaggerations, so expect 20+ dB at the low end, and no more than 100 cfm at the high end (and expect about 40dB of m=noise, too).
> 
> I have those fans. I'll be testing them on the D14 by and by.


Ah, I see that now! Thank You for pointing that out. Which I don't think I'll mind the noise too much, unless I am trying to listen to orchestrated music in my room. But I could get a fan controller and just turn the fans down for idle loads.









I'll be very interested to see your results with those fans on the D14, for sure!









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14207558*
> I just leave my slot covers off. One of these days I'm going to use my nibbler and get rid of those between-slot pillars.


I have never seen a tool like that before! That's pretty cool.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14207558*
> Remove the rear grill. Move that back fan to the bottom. Block off the rear fan position. Here's my current airflow:


So since the back grill is part of the case I'd have to cut it out? What could I do about any sharp metal from the open hole?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14207558*
> I'll be adjusting the airflow amounts soon, but you get the idea. Your case is perfect for this. It's better than mine.
> 
> Looks like a square fan position. Put a 140mm fan there that has 120mm screw holes: Kaze Maru, Kaze Maru 2, TY-140.


I figured if I am going to be using air cooling, to do it right, so that's why I came to this thread, and I Thank You very much for your assistance so far.

My fans will arrive today, and as well as my new graphics card. The kind it is, apparently it will dump heat into the case, will this airflow plan help push all that out with ease?


----------



## chinesethunda

the nibbler tool can cut through case metal? how thick is your case? just curious


----------



## ehume

Nibbler will nibble sheet steel.

For gpu's that dump air into the case I'm thinking that sheet plastic (hobby shops have it for model railroaders to make buildings) would allow us to separate a case into zones: cpu and gpu. In a 690, I'd look at intakes in front and bottom, exhaust side and rear. Still pondering this.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14214292*
> For gpu's that dump air into the case I'm thinking that sheet plastic (hobby shops have it for model railroaders to make buildings) would allow us to separate a case into zones: cpu and gpu. In a 690, I'd look at intakes in front and bottom, exhaust side and rear. Still pondering this.


First of all I think that a fan pushing GPU's heat is gonna make some turbulence, at least with _Gigabyte Windforce 3x_ cooling system (which I own).
[ame="[URL=http://www.gigabyte.com/fileupload/multimedia/3/file/267/553.swf]http://www.gigabyte.com/fileupload/multimedia/3/file/267/553.swf"]http://www.gigabyte.com/fileupload/multimedia/3/file/267/553.swf[/ame[/URL]]

[ame="[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V6BLcVWvYw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V6BLcVWvYw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5V6BLcVWvYw[/ame[/URL]]

What do you think about it ?


----------



## ehume

GREAT video find. +rep

And it shows how the hot air goes everywhere. You've convinced me that when someone has one of those, a barrier to create zones would be a good idea. I'm thinking front and bottom intake combined with a side exhaust . . .


----------



## Hoodcom

The barrier idea sounds great, but I am wondering how you'd be able to fully seal off the graphics card to be in it's own zone? Or make it just enough to re-route the airflow?


----------



## chinesethunda

I'm sure you could reroute the air.

So I was testing last night, I switched my front top to intake because it fully clears the front of my cm212+ so it can intake alot of air, I tested last night to see if i could get better temps with my back top fan on or off, while my rear exhaust fan is still on, it turns out that with it off actually makes it warmer by a few degrees. I have not yet tried to block it off but I just thought it was interesting. lemme know if anything needs clarifying


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14224272*
> I'm sure you could reroute the air.
> 
> So I was testing last night, I switched my front top to intake because it fully clears the front of my cm212+ so it can intake alot of air, I tested last night to see if i could get better temps with my back top fan on or off, while my rear exhaust fan is still on, it turns out that with it off actually makes it warmer by a few degrees. I have not yet tried to block it off but I just thought it was interesting. lemme know if anything needs clarifying


It looks as if your rear top exhaust fan gives better cooling when it is turned on than when it is turned off. Other people have diffwerent results. Your results show why we need to test each system to see what works.

+ rep for doing that.


----------



## HAVO

mmm so best thing to do with gpus would something like this:










note the GPU "cage" that isolate them form the rest of the comp

COUPLED WITH THIS:










A windtunnel with fresh air only for the gous.. directly front to back..

mmm.. maybe gona test it with some cardboard ghetto "Cage"


----------



## chinesethunda

I'm still looking around for a dremel to cut the back grill, maybe the reason it cooled better was because the back exhaust wasn't pushing air out fast enough. Because I felt quite a bit of air coming out of the top exhaust, but gravity probably pull it out or made the hot air get sucked back in, I think if I cut out the rear grill and took out the fan and covered the top exhaust hole it would cool even better, but until that grill is gone I don't think I have much choice. I also rotated my cm212+ back to the usual orientation of facing front to back because I have a fan in the bay area that blows cool air directly to it and the top intake as well supplies cool air. The only thing I am considering now is to put a fan behind the hdd's to blow air to the GPU and create a push/pull kinda effect on the hdd's I's just trying to figure out how to attach a fan there


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14218799*
> GREAT video find. +rep
> 
> And it shows how the hot air goes everywhere. You've convinced me that when someone has one of those, a barrier to create zones would be a good idea. I'm thinking front and bottom intake combined with a side exhaust . . .


Side exaust is much better with my video card (has the cooling system shown in video







)...


----------



## adridu59

Some news !








In this vid a man shows up his GTX 460 fan mod, some kind of "wind tunnel". Cheap & fast made but it seems like it performs well !
Check this video :
[ame="[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck_OXrVDl1I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck_OXrVDl1I"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck_OXrVDl1I[/ame[/URL]]


----------



## MexGT

I've been thinking a lot of the cage-type for the GPU's, cause I also share the same problem with inside exhaust air cards and we need to separate the solutions and problems here, from the easiest solution to the most complex ones.

Ok what are the inconvenients of inside exhausting cards? well the obvious is the hot air inside the case, but the real inmediate problem will be the CPU cooler, either H20 or Aircooler, so let me explain the simple solution in my personal case, HAF 912.

My case fan setup as it is right now:










Upgraded the front 200mm to 3 120mm and the rear exhaust aswell.

The 120mm in the 5.25 fan aided in the CPU cooling, but not by much because conventional fan design pushes air in a 45* angle aprox and some of the air also was being pulled out by the top exhaust 200mm before it could reach the CPU cooler, so unless you have a duct you wont be able to have a good stream of air pointing the CPU cooler, but while gaming when my videocards stressed out and the CPU aswell I got high-ish temps for my taste and ended up thinking this is my obvious problem:










And as I said before, even though I have 3 120mm's as intake, they dont blow air directly where fresh air is needed, air just goes in an angle and therefore it cant really push the hot air being exhausted by the GPU to the back so it can be exhausted by the rear 120mm, also keep in mind the card has 2 intake fans that need fresh air to perform better, and they're just recycling hot air since the intake flow is not strong enough to push the weak hot air back, it ends just being warmed.

Also, theres an inevitable turbulence created by the bot GPU because the air being exhaisted either goes bot and sucked again by their own intake fans and the top GPU exhaust air also creates an airflow to the sidepannel.

This problem also affects the CPU cooler, the intake cooler sucks hot air from the top video card because the suction is very strong in the space between the intake CPU fan and the top video card and again the front 120mm intake fan air doesnt get all the way to the CPU cooler because the angle problem and no strong airflow. Note that the Magmas are rated 70 CFM's at full speed, so they're not weak but not the best out there I know, you get what I'm trying to say, better than most stock fans will offer and some aftermarket aswell.

My solution will be this:










So If I get a duct from the top intake 120mm fan directly to the intake CPU fan with the least gap as possible it should help a ton, also consider that the ducted air will have way more pushing flow since all of the air of the fan will be going through the same place, no more angle loss, everything straight forward which will also push back any hot air of the top GPU since it wont have the same speed AND without having to buy noisier and more powerfull fans.

An exhaust fan for the GPU's, making it the most back as possible because remember the GPUs have intake fans and we dont want to exhaust the fresh air and never let it cool our GPU's, but theres a need to create and exhaust flow so most of the hot air is taken out.

Another intake duct for the GPU's because like I already explained, ducted air has way more force than without it, and we will use all of the CFM's the fan is intaking AND the gentle breeze of exhaust air that could be going out by the front of the card will be pushed back with no problem!

I think configurations like this will eliminate the need of "Caging" the videocards and its a more simple solution.

I hope this can help some guys here!


----------



## Hoodcom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14224272*
> I'm sure you could reroute the air.
> 
> So I was testing last night, I switched my front top to intake because it fully clears the front of my cm212+ so it can intake alot of air, I tested last night to see if i could get better temps with my back top fan on or off, while my rear exhaust fan is still on, it turns out that with it off actually makes it warmer by a few degrees. I have not yet tried to block it off but I just thought it was interesting. lemme know if anything needs clarifying


I finally got my system put together, side panels on and everything.

I found that my side panel lower fan effects my GTX 580 Twin Frozr II's temperature.

Running Furmark, and using it's temperature reading, it hung around 73 degrees Celsius, with out a fan running in the side panel at all.

Then I tried using a fan (a 120mm Cooler Master DCD 25T1) as an exhaust fan, and temps began to climb up to 75C.

Before I let it creep any higher, I pulled the side panel to unplug and flip the fan to as intake duty, the temperature began to drop down to 72 ~ 73 C.

Here is my current setup and it's flow - The yellow arrow shows where heat blows out and is pushed to from the fan on the HDD cage:









I also forgot to mention, there is an 80mm x 15mm fan located behind the CPU socket area as well.

I currently set it like that to see how the system does.

Oh, and many thanks to ehume and his wonderful thread on installing a fan in the drive bay.


















As the case is with every fan at full speed, it really doesn't bother me at all noise wise. This build has many more fans, yet less noise than my last system build (a core 2 duo system).


----------



## BBEG

To build off MexGT, and keeping in mind that the Twin Frozr cooler is designed to vent hot air out of the back of the case:










Using FurMark to heat up the GPU, you can tell it definitely spits hot air out of the machine, but my Mark 1 Mod 0 hand thinks more warm air comes out of the of the GPU side than comes out of the rear vents. I can't feel any air blowing from the card toward the front of the case. With the case side on, CPU temp rose from 33° C to 45°C; with the case open, it went from the same idle temp to 40.5° C. Definitely warmer in a closed box. A side exhaust seems like a good idea.

Also, rather than the top intake right at the front of the case, could you not move the fan to the back of the 5.25 bay? With the front open it will still suck in mostly fresh air from outside the case, using the drive bay itself as a quasi-duct and puts the fan much closer to the parts that need cooler air.


----------



## chinesethunda

hmm that is a good idea, how would i go about attaching a fan behind my hdd cage?


----------



## BBEG

Copying from ehume's thread:



















I guess you could put foam or line the 5.25 bay with something to keep it from sucking too much air from the sides and more air from the front. That would be ideal.


----------



## MexGT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BBEG;14229754*
> To build off MexGT, and keeping in mind that the Twin Frozr cooler is designed to vent hot air out of the back of the case:
> 
> Also, rather than the top intake right at the front of the case, could you not move the fan to the back of the 5.25 bay? With the front open it will still suck in mostly fresh air from outside the case, using the drive bay itself as a quasi-duct and puts the fan much closer to the parts that need cooler air.


That should work only if the 5.25 bays are almost ermetic, because the further back you place the fan it wull suck air from the little holes and vents the 5.25 bays have, creating 0 suction in the front pannel and what we want here is air directly from the outside the case, obviously with a front filter because we dont want any dust too.

Also remember airfilters reduce airflow, so if you place the fan way behind the 5.25 drives it will have even less power to get air through the filters.


----------



## chinesethunda

i have it at the front cuz if its at the back the temps rise about a temp. i tried this before because as mexgt stated it draws less actual cool air from the front.


----------



## BBEG

Have you guys tried blocking off the side holes in the drive bay so it forms an improvised duct? Foam, electrical tape, I'm sure either would work well and I'm equally sure we all have plenty of both. I would think that would create more or less linear air flow from the front of the case to behind the fan, since air can't be drawn in from any of the side holes since they're blocked off.

Tomorrow I might have time after work to play with this, since I have two Noctua fans doing nothing right now (cooler not installed yet). I'll need to find a CPU stress program too.


----------



## MexGT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14229952*
> i have it at the front cuz if its at the back the temps rise about a temp. i tried this before because as mexgt stated it draws less actual cool air from the front.


----------



## ehume

You can't imagine what a joy it is to see all these posts from people thinking up airplans, building their setups and testing the resulting temps. It's just wonderful.

I'm thinking that there are probably several "best" ways to handle gpu cooling, and you won't know what will work until you actually compare temps. So far, I love what I'm seeing.


----------



## chinesethunda

I don't know what I could construct a duct with to try to put over the GPU, even if I did idk how to get it to stay. I was thinking just putting a fan behind my hdd right in front of my gpu? probably work too right?


----------



## Hoodcom

I am running Prime95 again...

I ran it for 7 hours one night, open case, rear fan being one of the 120 Noctuas at the time, and it took a long time to heat up to 65 ~ 67 degrees Celsius.

Running it tonight, and it's climbed to 65 rather quickly... So I am assuming my current airflow setup needs some time of improvement...

I am not sure about cutting out the grill on the rear fan opening to leave it open, but would it be possible to help fix this with a higher CFM fan by any chance or do I need to find other ways of letting the air out more?

*EDIT*

Ah HA! No wonder I didn't feel much air pumping out the back fan... apparently the fan controller is needed to make it run at it's highest output.

I shall wait and see what happens from more testing...


----------



## ehume

The nice thing about an open space is that the air can't really bunch up. Just hold your hand in front of a grill, then behind it. With the former you can feel the air from the heatsink. With the latter you can't.

I suppose you can make do with a higher cfm fan that also has good static pressure - something like a 120x38mm fan. But it will be loud.

Or come up with a different cooling plan.


----------



## chinesethunda

i mean i have a sickleflow in my rear exhaust, not sure about their static pressure but its a 38mm fan and i have it running on high all the time, the top rear exhaust helps a bit and my temps under load won't go over 55, normally with 50% cpu usage with games and stuff only hit 45C ish but I know I would get better airflow if i took out the grill,

O btw the datavac came today lol its loud lol


----------



## Siegfried262

Lots of interesting information in this thread







.

My future (Christmas time) plans involve moving to a Xigmatek Elysium and trying the following.

Note: Not my system obviously







and my graphics card is a GTX 560ti with a non-reference cooler that vents into the case. Not to mention my PSU will have the fan facing down.










I'd have the two 200mm Bitfenix fans I have up top intaking and four Thermalright X-Silent 120's (or fans of similar noise signature) intaking from the front. And then remove the PCI-slot covers and rear grill/fan to avoid pressure building up. Luckily the front drive bay covers and top mesh have dust filters built in.

I would try the windtunnel effect with the top fans but in another build log (I wish I could remember where it was here on the forums) another user with a HAF X really benefited from two top fans intaking because of the distance between the fans and the cpu cooler.

I think the positive pressure would work great though. Plenty of fresh incoming air for the tower cooler but the pressure (I think) will help get rid of hot air coming every which way from the GPU and heating up it's surroundings.

I can't wait though. I'll be sure to do thorough testing and by then I should have a fan or two lying around to see if it'd benefit with bottom fans or not.


----------



## Hoodcom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14231526*
> The nice thing about an open space is that the air can't really bunch up. Just hold your hand in front of a grill, then behind it. With the former you can feel the air from the heatsink. With the latter you can't.
> 
> I suppose you can make do with a higher cfm fan that also has good static pressure - something like a 120x38mm fan. But it will be loud.
> 
> Or come up with a different cooling plan.


Seems I made my edit when you posted.

It seems my 120mm cooler masters were not running at their fullest because I didn't use the fan controllers. So I am gonna retest with the controllers in place.

Though I am curious, how good of static pressure do those Noctua fans provide?


----------



## BBEG

Based on _reading_, poor. Most people suggest replacing them with Gentle Typhoons or better.

I have nothing to compare mine to except the OEM 120mm fans that come with my Xion case. I've got a NBBS PL1 and two GT AB14s coming soon, the PL1 for the front top intake and GTs for the U12P. This leaves me with the Noctua fans my sink came with, which I might as well use to replace my OEM 120mms (since I can't sell them for lack of supporting parts).

Once I have the other fans in I'll do some testing and report back. Until then... I wait.


----------



## chinesethunda

that bitfenix is a HUGE case, even bigger than my phantom lol, the reason I probably won't do a windtunnel or block off just the gpu is cuz i have a big 200mm side fan that blows fresh air to the gpu and cpu as well as that top 200mm fan, but maybe some fans inside for guidance might help a little


----------



## Siegfried262

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14231802*
> that bitfenix is a HUGE case, even bigger than my phantom lol, the reason I probably won't do a windtunnel or block off just the gpu is cuz i have a big 200mm side fan that blows fresh air to the gpu and cpu as well as that top 200mm fan, but maybe some fans inside for guidance might help a little


Are you referring to the Xigmatek case I linked to?









It comes stock with a 200mm on the side but I don't think it'd work when combined with the Thermalright Archon I plan on using when I make the upgrade. It seems odd to me though that a case that big wouldn't also have the room for a side fan and a big tower.


----------



## chinesethunda

yeah i guess so, still i mean im sure you can make it fit no?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Siegfried262;14231702*
> My future (Christmas time) plans involve moving to a Xigmatek Elysium and trying the following. . . .
> 
> I'd have the two 200mm Bitfenix fans I have up top intaking and four Thermalright X-Silent 120's (or fans of similar noise signature) intaking from the front. And then remove the PCI-slot covers and rear grill/fan to avoid pressure building up. Luckily the front drive bay covers and top mesh have dust filters built in.
> 
> I would try the windtunnel effect with the top fans but in another build log (I wish I could remember where it was here on the forums) another user with a HAF X really benefited from two top fans intaking because of the distance between the fans and the cpu cooler.


Exactly so. When you have a tall vault above the mobo you can get a wind tunnel going. Double intake seems the way to go.
Quote:


> I can't wait though. I'll be sure to do thorough testing and by then I should have a fan or two lying around to see if it'd benefit with bottom fans or not.


Thorough testing - that's key. And then, of course, reporting your findings.


----------



## Siegfried262

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14232009*
> yeah i guess so, still i mean im sure you can make it fit no?


Shouldn't be an issue. If you mean the case itself I have an end-table I use to keep my tower and I wouldn't be toting it around for lans







.

As for the Bitfenix fans, I'm not sure if they match the Xigmatek hole spacing but even if it doesn't I'm sure I can rig it up with some Velcro or maybe even these.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11021/ele-744/Anti-Vibration_Rubber_Fan_Screws_w_Magnetic_Head_AV01-0008-AKS.html?tl=g47c481s1260

Failing that, there's always zip ties









I figure I'd test it like this though. Front fans as they are.

1. No top intake
2/3. One top intake (front/back)
4. Two top intake

And then if I can, see if bottom fans help at all. (At this point I'm not sure they'd be effective. They might just impede or mess with the incoming flow from the front)


----------



## Foolsmasher

The Silverstone FT-01 is THE BEST air cooling case I have ever used and the air cooling temps I got in it have trumped all my friends. I wish I still had some pictures around, but here's how I had it set up.

I upgraded the 180mm fans to their Air Penetrator models to start, and these made a huge difference. The AP fans are amazing in this case. Secondly, I removed the top HDD cage so it was not blocking any airflow from the front fan to the graphics card. I then used some double sided tape to mount a 120mm fan on top of the bottom HDD cage to set up a "series" of AP fans straight onto the graphics cards. You have a TON of cool air pouring over them now.

For CPU cooling, you have an AP 180 mm blowing straight down onto the CPU heatsink, as well as 1 or 2 120mm fans on the heatsink blowing straight to the back of the case. 1 120mm in the back as exhaust, that is it.

My 920 with a crapload of voltage on it and at 4.0 ghz wouldn't break 65C with a Venomous X on it with pretty low rpm fans. My watercooling setup I have now beats the air setup, but my god for air you can't do much better.


----------



## TC_Fenua

Once again, really nice thread about air cooling









Here is the airflow I got in my HAF-X case, and the temperatures I measured :


Airflow


_Temperatures_
Idle temps : web browsing.
Load temps : playing The Witcher 2 @ Ultra settings ( ubersampling off ) 1920*1200, GPUs and CPU @ 90-99% usage

Don't forget that this case comes with a 200mm on the side panel also, and mine is set as an intake to cool the vidcards.

I'll install a 120mm in the 5.25" bay just in front of the Noctua and relocate my BR drive at the top most slot, and cutting off the grill at the back is scheduled also ( and see if I can remove the rear 140mm exhaust fan for the wind tunnel effect ).


----------



## Siegfried262

Those are some amazing temperatures! Especially considering you have a SLI Configuration. Curious though, what's that box in front of your power supply? How would you describe the noise level of your rig?

Can't wait to see more results when you make the tweaks you mentioned.


----------



## TC_Fenua

The "box" is just a cover to hide all the PSU cables







And this setup is pretty silent ( maybe I'm used to it now







), it's quieter than my previous case, a Corsair 600T with stock fans, perhaps it's just a feeling because of the different pitch of the CM fans, less annoying


----------



## Siegfried262

Interesting, silence is a very subjective thing though, haha.

I like the cable cover idea though, really helps bring together the clean interior








.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Foolsmasher*


The Silverstone FT-01 is THE BEST air cooling case I have ever used


What other cases have you used ?


----------



## chinesethunda

that is rediculously cool temps you get on your computer, what program is that to measure the temps?


----------



## Hoodcom

Well, I figured out how to add my fan potentiometers in with out having to do something drastic..

1 on my rear side vertical PCI-bracket for the rear back fan, and two in the HDD cage.

Using one 3.5" bracket in an HDD holder, mounted securely and working well.
I removed the thermal on/off switch for the second potentiometer.










This controls the 5.25" bay fan and the fan mounted on my HDD cage that blows to the GPU.

Noisy at max setting, but this allows me to adjust for different situations, so for example, running Intel Burn Test on all 8 threads, and 3072MB memory, and 7 out of 10 runs my temp has only hit 62 tops on one core, others are staying in the mid to upper 50s.

I hear IBT runs the CPU hotter than Prime 95, so if this holds true, (Which I will run Prime95 to give another test for temperature information sake) then my temps are cooler than they were in all open case and compared to when my three fans were running at a minimum of 800 RPM speed.

The maximum is 2,500RPM on these three fans.

The side case fan is only running at bare minimum right now.

I also had removed the two grommet's at the top back of the case, and feel as much air flow pumping from there as I do the rear fan.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TC_Fenua;14232864*
> 
> Airflow
> 
> Don't forget that this case comes with a 200mm on the side panel also, and mine is set as an intake to cool the vidcards.
> 
> I'll install a 120mm in the 5.25" bay just in front of the Noctua and relocate my BR drive at the top most slot, and cutting off the grill at the back is scheduled also ( and see if I can remove the rear 140mm exhaust fan for the wind tunnel effect ).


At this point you are approaching what may be the optimal airflow plan for the HAF X. I believe that when you remove your rear grill and test temps you will find that your ceiling is too high to get a wind tunnel effect. I think you will need both top fans to continue with a mass effect instead. But please do the testing: fact beats theory every time.


----------



## Hoodcom

Okay, instead of using the PCI brackets that cooler master provided with the fans, I modified a vented slot cover I have to hold two potentiometers. With out sacrificing much ventilation.










Also, I was curious... ehume, would that Nibbler tool safely cut out a fan grill on the back of a computer case?

If so, what would you use to keep from worrying about sharp metal edges of the opening?


----------



## ehume

The nibbler can cut out a grill. I was pointed to it by a guy who used it to cut out a fan hole in the bottom of his case. I used side cutters on all my grills - being old fashioned. Then hit the raw edges with files (flat and curved, depending on the setting) then with a scythe-sharpening stone that works great as a fine file. I suspect I'd have had less twisted edges with a nibbler. When I cut out my slot pillars with it I'll let you know.

[edit]I forgot to add: I blackened the edges with a paint pen when I was done.

Newest fan plan:










Side intake is a Kaze Maru 1200 brought down to 1000 rpm by a slot-mounted single channel fan controller, a real cheapie that nonetheless works fine.

I have plenty of AP-14's, but only four AP-12's, two of which are being used in cases, and two AP-13's. When I have two of a fan, they need to be available for fan testing (I am testing one AP-12 as I write this). So: my mid-case fan is a GT AP-14 throttled down by another single-channel fan controller to 1150 rpm, which makes it behave like an AP-13.

Front intake is an AP-12. Bottom intake is an AP-14 running on 5v, replicating an AP-12. Top intake is a TY-140 PWM fan that operates on the cpu PWM signal, along with the push-pull San Ace Silent series medium, both PWM. The last three PWM fans vary together.

I now have enough airflow that I can feel it coming out the back. And it's still a very quiet rig ubnless it's under load, when it is merely quiet.


----------



## MexGT

Quote:



Originally Posted by *TC_Fenua*


The "box" is just a cover to hide all the PSU cables







And this setup is pretty silent ( maybe I'm used to it now







), it's quieter than my previous case, a Corsair 600T with stock fans, perhaps it's just a feeling because of the different pitch of the CM fans, less annoying










Do you have the stock rear exhuast fan? Theres a ton of intake air !









Love your rig btw.


----------



## TC_Fenua

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehume*


The nibbler can cut out a grill. I was pointed to it by a guy who used it to cut out a fan hole in the bottom of his case. I used side cutters on all my grills - being old fashioned. Then hit the raw edges with files (flat and curved, depending on the setting) then with a scythe-sharpening stone that works great as a fine file. I suspect I'd have had less twisted edges with a nibbler. When I cut out my slot pillars with it I'll let you know.

[edit]I forgot to add: I blackened the edges with a paint pen when I was done.

Newest fan plan:

~_image snip_~

Side intake is a Kaze Maru 1200 brought down to 1000 rpm by a slot-mounted single channel fan controller, a real cheapie that nonetheless works fine.

I have plenty of AP-14's, but only four AP-12's, two of which are being used in cases, and two AP-13's. When I have two of a fan, they need to be available for fan testing (I am testing one AP-12 as I write this). So: my mid-case fan is a GT AP-14 throttled down by another single-channel fan controller to 1150 rpm, which makes it behave like an AP-13.

Front intake is an AP-12. Bottom intake is an AP-14 running on 5v, replicating an AP-12. Top intake is a TY-140 PWM fan that operates on the cpu PWM signal, along with the push-pull San Ace Silent series medium, both PWM. The last three PWM fans vary together.

I now have enough airflow that I can feel it coming out the back. And it's still a very quiet rig ubnless it's under load, when it is merely quiet.


Hmm , that setup gave me an idea : create a plate to isolate the case in two areas like you did ( CPU on top and GPU below ). THat might be interesting and more efficient. Thank you for posting this









Quote:



Originally Posted by *MexGT*


Do you have the stock rear exhuast fan? Theres a ton of intake air !









Love your rig btw.


Yes, it's the stock one ... for now








Thanks for the comment btw


----------



## chinesethunda

hey tc fenua what was the temp monitoring program you had? it has a cool gui


----------



## TC_Fenua

Oops sorry , didn't see your question before








It's the Thermal Radar bundled with the Asus Sabertooth mobo and Asus AI Suite II. Again, sorry to have missed your question :/


----------



## adridu59

Hmm I don't know if isolating the case in two area would improve temps...

With a good fan in front of the video card and open rear slots I think heat is well dissipated.
Also when using 3D-inclined video card fans (see image below) I recommend to set the side fan as outtake to not disturb the video card fans.


----------



## BBEG

Ehume, aren't the top and front-high intakes fighting each other's air flow? The front intake wants to pull horizontally rearward, there the top intake wants pull air vertically downward at roughly the same cfm. Turbulence is good for cooling but how much air is actually making it to the intake fan for your cooler?


----------



## SirWaWa

I see nothing wrong with his setup
my setup is similar and is delivering great results
perpendicular airflow is acceptable as long as one of the directions is consistently parallel


----------



## chinesethunda

thanks tc fenua, wonder if i can download it somewhere something that looks similar lol, its a cool looking gui

as to the perpendicular air flow, keep in mind that yes the from the front and the top may seem to create turbulance, but you also have your heat sink fans pulling in the air as well, in my case the air meets right in front of my blademasters and gets sucked in


----------



## MexGT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TC_Fenua;14243097*
> 
> Yes, it's the stock one ... for now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the comment btw


Was asking because having only 1 Exhaust fan and some passive exhaust (sorted holes back in the case) will not aid the intake fans, and I fear you have right now some sort of Bottleneck Exhaust airflow and with that much air in your case the intake fans cant push more air, they might not even be working at their full flowing speed simply because the case cant fit more air!

Anyway its just my theory I could be wrong, but a better flowing exhaust fan will def. help in airflow circulation









Edit: Also I suggest you to download Realtemp because it takes temp from a different sensor the Asus software does, and you can have an idea of how cool/run you're really doing.

My Asus software for example states my CPU temp is 28*c while realtemp says 35*c.


----------



## Foolsmasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59;14234838*
> What other cases have you used ?


Antec 900, HAF 932.

Currently off the air cooling and into a TJ for water


----------



## BBEG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirWaWa;14245653*
> I see nothing wrong with his setup
> my setup is similar and is delivering great results
> perpendicular airflow is acceptable as long as one of the directions is consistently parallel


I'm not saying anything is wrong with it. I'm asking whether there is conflicting air flow with two fans both blowing into the same space. I wonder how removing one of the fans would effect temperatures, be it negatively or positively.


----------



## Siegfried262

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BBEG;14251509*
> I'm not saying anything is wrong with it. I'm asking whether there is conflicting air flow with two fans both blowing into the same space. I wonder how removing one of the fans would effect temperatures, be it negatively or positively.


I think it depends on the case and build. In TC_Fenua's case & build log he experienced higher temperatures when he used the front 200mm top fan alone rather than both of them.

http://www.overclock.net/intel-build-logs/1040318-my-modest-build-yet-another-i7-4.html

It's a fascinating and very well tested build log which combined with this thread and some technical information from Silverstone has given me inspiration for my next build.


----------



## MexGT

Well o well .... now that I had some time to play with few fan configurations I can now have FACTS like ehumed said, not only theories.

I only played with TOP and SIDE fans for now, interesting results and I still want to get a duct for the CPU intake fan cooler so it doesnt suck warm air from the GPU's. MY fan configuration also includes 3 Enermax Magma intake 120mm fans.

The follow screenshots purpouse are to show the different combinations and results of each fan combo listed in each screenshot, I also made a zoom in the max temperature graph of the GPU's and with Realtemp to see max CPU temp reached, I dont care for the current # shown in the realtemp monitor, since its always changing I rather have my test based in Max temp, besides the SS wasnt taken during 100% load, I only cared for MAX temps.

TEST: Was done using Unigine DX11 in with the settings listed in each screenshot, all of the tests used the same settings to avoid discrepancy and for CPU I used Prime95 -Blend- using 100% stock CPU settings, I ran BOTH tests at the same time, Unigine starting a second before prime started and the temperature recorded are at the very end of the whole Unigine run.
For each test the computer was restarted to avoid any other variable and my room temp was in a constant 22*c.

First test: From basics, No top fan or side fan










Second test: Top Exhaust fan and NO side fan










Third Test: Both Fans as Intake
This is a very interesting result, as several members here use this fan setup which I found to be not the best, atleast in my rig.










Fourth test: Top Intake and side exhaust
I've always thought that this test would give better results, I was wrong.










And the last test, which is intended as default configuration lead to the best result, top exhaust and side Intake

Sadly CM doesnt supply a side fan filter, wonder how much dust will my case get inside with this only fan unfiltered ...


















So I got 10*c difference in GPU#1 and 6*c in GPU#2 from the worst to the best result tests and only 1*c in the CPU temps in only 2 cores within the exact same tests I got this whole GPU temp decrease, which I call it within margin of error and I'd say CPU temps were the same in ALL 5 tests, so yeah I need to duct the CPU air to see if it improoves anything and discard all the possible "Could be this, could be that".


----------



## MexGT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TC_Fenua;14232864*
> Once again, really nice thread about air cooling
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the airflow I got in my HAF-X case, and the temperatures I measured :
> 
> Airflow
> 
> Idle temps : web browsing.
> Load temps : playing The Witcher 2 @ Ultra settings ( ubersampling off ) 1920*1200, GPUs and CPU @ 90-99% usage
> 
> Don't forget that this case comes with a 200mm on the side panel also, and mine is set as an intake to cool the vidcards.
> 
> I'll install a 120mm in the 5.25" bay just in front of the Noctua and relocate my BR drive at the top most slot, and cutting off the grill at the back is scheduled also ( and see if I can remove the rear 140mm exhaust fan for the wind tunnel effect ).


Check my last post, consider checking before/after tests too when switching top fans !


----------



## MexGT

So I made a CPU duct with some spare parts I had around, and tested it with the same benchmarks I did in my previous posts.

Used the best fan config as shown before, top 200mm exhaust and 120mm side intake.










GPU temps were in the same margin of error as test #5 58/53 aprox, but in the CPU temps I had a solid 3*c drop, which is now obvious that the CPU intake fan was sucking some of the warm air exhausted by the GPU's, not a great improovement but it was worth the try.

Now I'm thinking if I should get a more powerfull 120mm fan for the CPU duct, dont know how much it should improove, if any 1*c-2*c, but I dont want noisy fans







and Magmas I'm using are rated 69 CFM's @18 Dba, any suggestions? If any noticeable improovement should be by a 95+ Cfm fan.


----------



## ehume

I love the data. How about some pics of the duct?

Fans: compare my list in item 1 in my sig. Also look here.

For my own testing I have OCCT outputting a csv file, which I open in OpenOffice, sum the selected temps (the selection is complicated), and divide by the number of selected readings, getting a mean temp. I believe Real Temp can be set to output a log file, which you could then average.

Don't forget your ambient temps.

Overall, a great set of tests. +rep

BTW - you can get 120mm filters for external mounting. I use something similar for my side mounted fan. The filter gets dirty, which is a good thing.


----------



## MexGT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14276402*
> I love the data. How about some pics of the duct?
> 
> Fans: compare my list in item 1 in my sig. Also look here.
> 
> For my own testing I have OCCT outputting a csv file, which I open in OpenOffice, sum the selected temps (the selection is complicated), and divide by the number of selected readings, getting a mean temp. I believe Real Temp can be set to output a log file, which you could then average.
> 
> Don't forget your ambient temps.
> 
> Overall, a great set of tests. +rep
> 
> BTW - you can get 120mm filters for external mounting. I use something similar for my side mounted fan. The filter gets dirty, which is a good thing.


Thanks man, forgot to mention ambient temp was always 25*c.

The duct was made of a leftover silicone reducer 5.00">4.5" of my car build lol, a 120x38mm fan shroud and a bit thick cardboard which being rolled 3 times gave enough strength to not bend with the weight of the reducer.

Since the V6GT is 165mm tall (kinda tall IMO) the fan had to be ziptied to the left side of the 5.25 bay, couldnt be in the very middle but no biggie with that, it still had a very minor space to cover but nothing that would affect anything in my opinion.

Kinda ghetto-ish I know, but theres nothing out there that could make this job and it costed $4.5 for the new 120x38mm fan and $0.8 for the cardboard lol, if I had a 150-155 tall CPU cooler the fit would be almost perfect.

Also considering in making TWO 120mm intake fan holes in the 100% clear side pannel since the intake fan gave the most improovement, and yes filters will be installed too !


----------



## TC_Fenua

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MexGT;14263923*
> Check my last post, consider checking before/after tests too when switching top fans !


Hehe, I did







I had a little better CPU temp but all the others were all higher by 5-10°C, that was with the single 200mm on top though. If I do that now, I may have too much hot air coming from the bottom of the case ( dual top 200mm exhaust ).

+rep for all the tests, nicely done mate


----------



## MexGT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TC_Fenua;14276922*
> Hehe, I did
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had a little better CPU temp but all the others were all higher by 5-10°C, that was with the single 200mm on top though. If I do that now, I may have too much hot air coming from the bottom of the case ( dual top 200mm exhaust ).
> 
> +rep for all the tests, nicely done mate


Thanks !


----------



## Hoodcom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14276402*
> BTW - you can get 120mm filters for external mounting. I use something similar for my side mounted fan. The filter gets dirty, which is a good thing.


Can you get these in 140mm sizes too?

Speaking of 140mm fans, I was wondering if you have any recommendations for upgrading two of my current 140mm fans (the stock ones that came with my case).

Reason for this is I was thinking of boosting the airflow from the top front intake and some how the front lower half intake of my case, with out gaining much extra noise so I could keep the 120mm fans from running as fast to keep the noise down a little more.

I am considering the TY-140 for use in the side panel when I order the side panel window for my case.

Plus I plan to follow your guide on adding a third fan to the Noctua D14, as I am highly curious to see how my temperature level is effected.


----------



## Siegfried262

While Petra's doesn't offer a 140mm fan filter (that I see) there are some good other ones out there.

Silverstone makes a good 140mm fan filter that doesn't even need screws.
http://www.aerocooler.com/shop.cart?action=ITEM&prod_id=FANSSFF141B

You also have Demciflex filters which I've read are amazing at stopping dust.
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=25562

Here's a more budget friendly alternative from Koolertek.
http://www.koolertek.com/computer-parts/pc/Washable-Fan-Filter-140mm-162p2297.htm

Bear in mind though that there are multiple places to get all of those filters







.

As for 140mm fans I've used both the Thermalright X-Silent 140 and Thermalright TY-140. In my experience they were both quiet fans but the X-Silent 140 was quieter to my ears but didn't push (subjectively) as much air as the TY-140. They're both great choices. (Though the X-Silent 140 you don't want to mount horizontally. I've read about people having issues that way)


----------



## greenhold

How is the Azza Hurrican for air cooling? It comes with 8 fans and has the price of the HAF 932/X although those come with only 1/3 or less of their total fans.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hoodcom;14280820*
> Can you get these in 140mm sizes too?
> 
> Speaking of 140mm fans, I was wondering if you have any recommendations for upgrading two of my current 140mm fans (the stock ones that came with my case).
> 
> Reason for this is I was thinking of boosting the airflow from the top front intake and some how the front lower half intake of my case, with out gaining much extra noise so I could keep the 120mm fans from running as fast to keep the noise down a little more.
> 
> I am considering the TY-140 for use in the side panel when I order the side panel window for my case.
> 
> Plus I plan to follow your guide on adding a third fan to the Noctua D14, as I am highly curious to see how my temperature level is effected.


In general, a 120x120mm fan window can be served with a 140/120mm fan (140mm fan with 120mm screw holes) and a 120mm filter. That's what I'm doing with my side panel.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Siegfried262;14285219*
> While Petra's doesn't offer a 140mm fan filter (that I see) there are some good other ones out there.
> 
> Silverstone makes a good 140mm fan filter that doesn't even need screws.
> http://www.aerocooler.com/shop.cart?action=ITEM&prod_id=FANSSFF141B
> 
> You also have Demciflex filters which I've read are amazing at stopping dust.
> http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=25562
> 
> Here's a more budget friendly alternative from Koolertek.
> http://www.koolertek.com/computer-parts/pc/Washable-Fan-Filter-140mm-162p2297.htm
> 
> Bear in mind though that there are multiple places to get all of those filters
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> As for 140mm fans I've used both the Thermalright X-Silent 140 and Thermalright TY-140. In my experience they were both quiet fans but the X-Silent 140 was quieter to my ears but didn't push (subjectively) as much air as the TY-140. They're both great choices. (Though the X-Silent 140 you don't want to mount horizontally. I've read about people having issues that way)


All excellent ideas. I especially like that magnetic idea. The olny problem I see is that you would not be able to use vibration isolators in lieu of screws.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *greenhold;14285384*
> How is the Azza Hurrican for air cooling? It comes with 8 fans and has the price of the HAF 932/X although those come with only 1/3 or less of their total fans.


I like what I see of this case. I may even add it to the OP.

Do you have this case? Could you measure the width of the case at its narrow portion? How much space behind the motherboard?


----------



## Siegfried262

With the magnetic filters you might be able to get away with using the Nexus isolators if the magnetic filter is close enough to the fan frame. It looks like the Nexus isolators don't protrude much.

Otherwise you could always try these. I've never used them but they seem they like could be interesting. You could mount a fan on the inside of the case with these and then strap the magnetic filter to the outside of the case. Just a thought.
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11021/ele-744/Anti-Vibration_Rubber_Fan_Screws_w_Magnetic_Head_AV01-0008-AKS.html


----------



## ehume

I've tried them all, including the ones you linked to. I myself will only use these. And they do stick out about 4-5mm.


----------



## Siegfried262

Interesting, I've only had experience with the long ones that come with the Thermalright fans.

How were the magnetic ones? Have you noticed a significant difference between other products and the nexus isolators?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Siegfried262;14288709*
> Interesting, I've only had experience with the long ones that come with the Thermalright fans.
> 
> How were the magnetic ones? Have you noticed a significant difference between other products and the nexus isolators?


The magnetic filters look like fun.

As for vibration insulators, the ones you link to not only require open corners, but you have to pick into the corners to pull the stems through. Try that on a blind corner.

Really long ones tend to be made of materials that pull apart - break, iow.

Ones that have little inserts would seem to be perfect for suspending fans. But woe unto you when you want to get the fan off to reposition it.

The double-enders aren't so bad for blind corners, In fact, they're pretty good for the rear of a case: attach them to the fan, then put the fan against the backside of the case and pull the other ends through. But often you must lubricate those ends to get them into the fan. And then when you want to to reposition the fan you break some. Also, the rubber is awful stiff.

The Nexus silicon really does dampen vibration (other range from no good to not great). It's long enough to push through a closed corner so you can grab the end as it noses through, and pops into place. Works even on blind corners. And you can position/reposition the fans a bunch of times before you start breaking any.

I still have a bunch of the other ones that I do not use.


----------



## MexGT

I wonder how well can a Silerarrow and a DH14 will behave with GPU's that exhaust air inside the case?

looking at the middle fan, it may suck air from the sides and that could decrease the eficiency of the rear 4 pypes?

The front fan can be helped with the fan duct, the rear only pulls but the middle is a pull/push.
-Ofcourse, interested in the 3 fan config.-
Need someone that can test this type of videocards and a rear exhaust videocard that uses any of this 2 CPU coolers lol ...


----------



## Hoodcom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MexGT;14296476*
> I wonder how well can a Silerarrow and a DH14 will behave with GPU's that exhaust air inside the case?
> 
> looking at the middle fan, it may suck air from the sides and that could decrease the eficiency of the rear 4 pypes?
> 
> The front fan can be helped with the fan duct, the rear only pulls but the middle is a pull/push.
> -Ofcourse, interested in the 3 fan config.-
> Need someone that can test this type of videocards and a rear exhaust videocard that uses any of this 2 CPU coolers lol ...


I could, my MSI GTX 580 Twin Frozr II dumps heat into my case, like so:










If I can heat the graphics card up as well as my CPU and monitor the temperature levels at the same time...

Would Furmark be able to run along side with Intel Burn Test or Prime95?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hoodcom;14328505*
> I could, my MSI GTX 580 Twin Frozr II dumps heat into my case, like so:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I can heat the graphics card up as well as my CPU and monitor the temperature levels at the same time...
> 
> Would Furmark be able to run along side with Intel Burn Test or Prime95?


Someone else will have to tell you the answer to your question. I just want to say that IMO this is an excellent example of a good airflow plan.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hoodcom;14328505*
> Would Furmark be able to run along side with Intel Burn Test or Prime95?


Just try, you will see...


----------



## Hoodcom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14328538*
> Someone else will have to tell you the answer to your question. I just want to say that IMO this is an excellent example of a good airflow plan.


It's going to improve too. Going to have this same model of case modded to my spec by CyberDruid, and one of the things will be the removal of the rear fan grill, plus I'll officially will have a side window that allows for a full 140mm fan.









The new configuration will have more 140mm fans than 120mm, I am thinking better airflow, yet more silence as well for this. I'll give test results of that configuration once it all is completed.









----

Okay, I'll give it a try now then. I'll just need to full blast the fans again for the full loads.

Here's what I plan to do in this order:

1.) Run Intel Burn Test for initial test of temperature.
2.) Once at peak temperature, run Furmark on GPU to heat it up and see what happens to both.

I may have to hook another monitor up unless furmark can be ran via window.

---*EDIT*---

In the process of heating up the GPU now.

CPU run on IBT was ran on standard, so the CPU only heated to 69C on two out of four cores, but since this test is for seeing if the GPU effects the CPU temp, I don't see the need in going all out on my CPU this round.

---*Edit Two - Test Results*---

Okay, here's the first run for CPU heat alone:









Now, I let Furmark heat up the GPU before I ran IBT... However as IBT hogged the CPU power, Furmark couldn't keep the heat at the highest point, but I guess this is still something to work off of as far as test results go, right?


----------



## MexGT

Thanks !

I'm able to run Prime95 + Unigine at the same time, thats how I did the tests a couple pages back.


----------



## Siegfried262

Regarding the Nexus fan mounts, are they reusable?

I'm considering using Nexus fans for the front intakes of the Xigmatek Elysium I'll be getting in a few months but if I do that I'd want to lubricate the Nexus fans prior to use. And then repeat the procedure every so often as needed.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Siegfried262*


Regarding the Nexus fan mounts, are they reusable?

I'm considering using Nexus fans for the front intakes of the Xigmatek Elysium I'll be getting in a few months but if I do that I'd want to lubricate the Nexus fans prior to use. And then repeat the procedure every so often as needed.


I've been reusing mine, over and over. If you don't abuse them they seem to be very durable.

The one thing that gets to them is when you have something pushing sideways against the fan. But then, you really shouldn't be using a rubber mount in such circumstances. I guess you would call it abuse.


----------



## Catscratch

Does the top intake fan wear out quicker ? My 92mm sure did. Fans are not designed to be blowing downwards i guess because the center sinks in due to gravity and start making noise and just wear down. Luckily I have a 25cm side fan







Thou it started to get noisy and there are no 25cm fans to replace it, i guess i'll have to get a 20cm fan and just bolt it on the grill.


----------



## Siegfried262

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Catscratch;14379491*
> Does the top intake fan wear out quicker ? My 92mm sure did. Fans are not designed to be blowing downwards i guess because the center sinks in due to gravity and start making noise and just wear down. Luckily I have a 25cm side fan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thou it started to get noisy and there are no 25cm fans to replace it, i guess i'll have to get a 20cm fan and just bolt it on the grill.


Sleeve bearing fans and some fluid bearing fans don't do well when mounted horizontally and can lose efficiency/lifespan.

Ball Bearing, Rifle Bearing, Noiseblocker bearings, Noctua bearings, Twister bearings (a good number of Enermax fans) don't suffer from this limitation. (Off the top of my head)


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Siegfried262;14379994*
> Sleeve bearing fans and some fluid bearing fans don't do well when mounted horizontally and can lose efficiency/lifespan.
> 
> Ball Bearing, Rifle Bearing, Noiseblocker bearings, Noctua bearings, Twister bearings (a good number of Enermax fans) don't suffer from this limitation. (Off the top of my head)


You forgot Fluid Dynamic Bearing (Scythe, Be Quiet!, ...), I guess it should work too...


----------



## Siegfried262

Quote:



Originally Posted by *adridu59*


You forgot Fluid Dynamic Bearing (Scythe, Be Quiet!, ...), I guess it should work too...


Ah, that's right. Except for Thermalright's X-Silent series. Great fans but I've read stories of them performing worse mounted horizontally.


----------



## Konig-Wolf

First and foremost, thanks to everyone for this incredible thread. I want to push my air cooling setup as far as I can go, and wanted to ask for input from everyone here.

I've attached a diagram (not to scale), of my case (Thermaltake Level 10 GT) and planned fan layout. I've used some spare parts from my ATCS 840 to add two 120mm fans in the middle of the case for circulation, and I've added a Cooler Master 4 in 3 HDD Module (with no hard drives) to add an additional 120mm filtered intake fan.

My video cards are a pair of ASUS 6970 Direct CUIIs in Crossfire with proper spacing (meaning there is a gap for airflow between the cards). Each card has 2x100mm fans, and they push most the air outside the case (75% out, 25% in the case I'd say...maybe 60/40 when they are pushed up to 100% fan speed).

In the diagram, blue arrows are for cool air, purple arrows are for warmed internal air, and red arrows are for exhaust.

My questions are as follows:

Are they any obvious things I've missed in doing this layout?
Should I switch the top 200mm fan to intake as opposed to exhaust, and let the Kuhler 920 and the vents in the case be the sole exhaust source?
Should I switch the top 200mm fan with 2x120mm fans? Should they be set to intake or exhaust? I have a pair of Cooler Master Excaliburs I could use.
Are there any advanced suggestions to improve the cooling in this case? I'm think about maybe building or crafting a some sort of divider at the back of my case, to force the hot air exhausted away from any possible intakes (like the side fan or possibly top fans). Does that sound like it would help any?


----------



## SirWaWa

u might see better temps making the top exhaust an intake
i had a very similar setup and i saw better temps going intake


----------



## MexGT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirWaWa;14387909*
> u might see better temps making the top exhaust an intake
> i had a very similar setup and i saw better temps going intake


from my point of view, he needs to do some testing, because in my case, top as exhaust gave me better temps! lol

@Konig-Wolf go back a couple of pages and you will see some tests I've done with the HAF 912-A I own, to give you and idea of how much impact can do 2 fans positioned wrongly.

good luck and keep us updated with results !


----------



## Siegfried262

With the Elysium I plan on getting I'd like to try rigging some fans to the lower portion of the side mesh eventually but the unused portions of the side mesh and the little vents above and below it look like they might allow air to escape without passing through the CPU/VGA area.

With the positive flow setup I'm going for, might it be advantageously to block these vents so the air coming from the top and front can only escape out the rear ports and open pci-slots?

On an unrelated note, it's a shame the Fractal Define XL can only exhaust out it's oddly placed 180mm fan, otherwise it'd be a blast to try. Two 140mm and one 120mm fans up front, big side intake, but that 180mm top fan only exhausts. Unless you modded the top of the case.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Siegfried262;14410066*
> With the Elysium I plan on getting I'd like to try rigging some fans to the lower portion of the side mesh eventually but the unused portions of the side mesh and the little vents above and below it look like they might allow air to escape without passing through the CPU/VGA area.
> 
> With the positive flow setup I'm going for, might it be advantageously to block these vents so the air coming from the top and front can only escape out the rear ports and open pci-slots?
> 
> On an unrelated note, it's a shame the Fractal Define XL can only exhaust out it's oddly placed 180mm fan, otherwise it'd be a blast to try. Two 140mm and one 120mm fans up front, big side intake, but that 180mm top fan only exhausts. Unless you modded the top of the case.


The Elysium looks highly promising. I especially like the twin 140mm fan spaces up top and the 140mm rear fan position. It ought to have room for an Archon. As for advanced fan positioning and use of mesh windows, you'd really need to do a case study for us, and post a lot of pictures.

The Fractal Define XL - the company says they recommend exhaust for the top 180mm fan, which suggests that it could be in intake. OTOH, rear positioned top fans are pretty much good only for exhaust. I can't tell from the pics I can find on a quick search - is there a forward top fan position? Or is the rearward position the only one?


----------



## Siegfried262

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14413744*
> The Elysium looks highly promising. I especially like the twin 140mm fan spaces up top and the 140mm rear fan position. It ought to have room for an Archon. As for advanced fan positioning and use of mesh windows, you'd really need to do a case study for us, and post a lot of pictures.
> 
> The Fractal Define XL - the company says they recommend exhaust for the top 180mm fan, which suggests that it could be in intake. OTOH, rear positioned top fans are pretty much good only for exhaust. I can't tell from the pics I can find on a quick search - is there a forward top fan position? Or is the rearward position the only one?


Indeed, it should be a lot of fun. I plan to move to the Elysium when I also make the jump to Bulldozer and I'm thinking of either the Archon or the Macho HR-02 for the cooler.

With the XL, I believe the top fan only has that odd angled rearward position. If you could reverse it for intake, it looks like it would be drawing air from a vent above the rear 140mm fan port. Which seems like you'd end up possibly recirculating hot air into the case. It could work though.

http://images.bit-tech.net/content_images/2010/11/fractal-design-define-xl-review/fractal-xl-17-l.jpg


----------



## MexGT

UPDATE

So I decided to mod a bit more my case, switched the stock plexi to my old 100% clear side plexi, but now I cutted 2 holes to fit two 120mm fans + filters.

I had this bug in my mind always because the stock plexi has tons of air restriction due how the intake holes are made and in top of that add a filter? no intake air FTL ? lol ...

So I used the stock acrilyc for a while with a fan in there, gave me good results, which I posted here a couple of pages back, anyway here are some pics of the modding.

From this:










To this:




























And the Temp test results went from this with one side fan ...










To the dual side fan:










Another 3*c shaved from my temps !

So yeah, listen to Ehume and take into consideration side fans too, your GPU(s) will be very thankfull with the extra fresh air


----------



## Siegfried262

As soon as I can figure out the dimensions I have available on the panel before I'd hit my cpu cooler the sooner I can figure out what fans I could fit on the side







.

I'm hoping for at least two 120mm fans but I might be able to squeeze in two 140mm fans. The side fan is apparently a 230mm fan (Though I can find no such fan on Xigmatek's site) and there's extra room on the sides so two 140mm fans would be potentially feasible.

Not sure which 140mm fan to go with though, lots of choices. TY-140s running at 9v wouldn't be a bad choice but it's always fun to try new fans. Maybe the Scythe Kaze Maru 2 series (800rpm) or this Zalman fan.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Siegfried262;14420936*
> As soon as I can figure out the dimensions I have available on the panel before I'd hit my cpu cooler the sooner I can figure out what fans I could fit on the side
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I'm hoping for at least two 120mm fans but I might be able to squeeze in two 140mm fans. The side fan is apparently a 230mm fan (Though I can find no such fan on Xigmatek's site) and there's extra room on the sides so two 140mm fans would be potentially feasible.
> 
> Not sure which 140mm fan to go with though, lots of choices. TY-140s running at 9v wouldn't be a bad choice but it's always fun to try new fans. Maybe the Scythe Kaze Maru 2 series (800rpm) or this Zalman fan.


Also Noctua NF-P14 :


----------



## HWI

A. NZXT 200mm 166cfm both as intake.
B. Scythe Slipstream 120mm 88cfm both as intake. I will soon be replacing these with these Scythe Kama Flex 135mm 100cfm fans.
C. Stock exhaust fan. I originally removed this along with the rear 120mm exhaust fan. However, I found having the upper exhaust benefited my temps, so I recently re-installed it. This is my only exhaust fan.

This set up gives me significant temp improvements over the stock fans.


----------



## Bit_reaper

What an awesome thread. I'm a hardcore air cooling/ silence freak. I've been thinking about flipping the top 140mm fans in my tempest for a while now and after reading this I really need to test it out. I see a lot of people blocking one of the top fan holes but are there any test's that show this is better then having a intake fan there? Also I don't see much talk about dust filters and how much they reduce air flow and generate noise.


----------



## chinesethunda

I got myself an infrared thermal reader and it measured 3-4 degrees C difference of the air going in the front of my case and coming out the back exhaust when it is idle and cpu is around 30~C ambient temps of 23C

under load cpu temps are 55-60~C and intake-exhaust difference of 6-8C

idk the point of my post but just decided to share lol.

Also, ehume, if i were to cut out the back grill, should I still have a fan to exhaust or let it exhaust on its own? I guess only testing will tell but in theory which do you think is a better plan?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bit_reaper;14423677*
> What an awesome thread. I'm a hardcore air cooling/ silence freak. I've been thinking about flipping the top 140mm fans in my tempest for a while now and after reading this I really need to test it out. I see a lot of people blocking one of the top fan holes but are there any test's that show this is better then having a intake fan there? Also I don't see much talk about dust filters and how much they reduce air flow and generate noise.


Blocking off the rearward top fan position is to create a wind tunnel effect. If the rearward top fan is exhaust you get recirculation. If it is intake you may or may not get interference with your wind tunnel. OTOH, if your case has a high ceiling like a HAF X, two intakes makes sense since you can't really make a wind tunnel. So a user tried it and discovered twin intakes > single intake with rearward position blocked.

Yes, we know filters make fans work harder and therefore louder. But we consider it worth it to avoid the dust. I've tried it both ways and far prefer the filters.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14436180*
> I got myself an infrared thermal reader and it measured 3-4 degrees C difference of the air going in the front of my case and coming out the back exhaust when it is idle and cpu is around 30~C ambient temps of 23C
> 
> under load cpu temps are 55-60~C and intake-exhaust difference of 6-8C
> 
> idk the point of my post but just decided to share lol.
> 
> Also, ehume, if i were to cut out the back grill, should I still have a fan to exhaust or let it exhaust on its own? I guess only testing will tell but in theory which do you think is a better plan?


I love the IR thermometer. Great data +rep

When you remove the rear grill there is no resistance to the air getting out. That's one less fan you need, and therefore "A little less noise theah!" (Mr. Darling, from Peter Pan).


----------



## chinesethunda

i see, I have great a many fans that I just have and don't mind having on there. Noise doesn't bother me at all. Would it hypothetically work better since it has no resistance?


----------



## MexGT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14440508*
> i see, I have great a many fans that I just have and don't mind having on there. Noise doesn't bother me at all. Would it hypothetically work better since it has no resistance?


In tems of airflow: No rear grill + Fan *>* Rear grill + Fan *>* No rear grill + No fan *>* Rear grill + no fan.

Edit: Most cases dont have top exhaust, and the only way to exhaust air would be the rear grill and I think in those cases it should help something to take out all the metal that interrupts airflow.
In my case, HAF 912 it has a big 200mm right in top as exhaust and even though it has a grill aswell it takes out a ton of air that taking out the metal in both fans wouldnt make any difference at all.
Infact, when I place my hand in the air thats being exhausted by the top 200mm is warmer than the rear air that is being exhausted too.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MexGT*


In tems of airflow: No rear grill + Fan *>* Rear grill + Fan *>* No rear grill + No fan *>* Rear grill + no fan.

Edit: Most cases dont have top exhaust, and the only way to exhaust air would be the rear grill and I think in those cases it should help something to take out all the metal that interrupts airflow.
In my case, HAF 912 it has a big 200mm right in top as exhaust and even though it has a grill aswell it takes out a ton of air that taking out the metal in both fans wouldnt make any difference at all.
Infact, when I place my hand in the air thats being exhausted by the top 200mm is warmer than the rear air that is being exhausted too.


I'm not sure that grill+fan exhausts more air than an empty space. Some of those grills are pretty restrictive, and some of those fans are pretty weak.


----------



## MexGT

I think of it being ... a hole = neutral pressure while air being sucked out creates negative pressure, thus more airflow out?


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *MexGT*


I think of it being ... a hole = neutral pressure while air being sucked out creates negative pressure, thus more airflow out?


But it may be limited in volume, where an open space can let lots of air through.


----------



## chinesethunda

yeah but like ehume had mentioned before, the back of the fan on the cooler acts as the rear fan and will push all the air out


----------



## MexGT

easy to check, take out the rear fan and place your hand and feel which airflow is stronger, with or without fan







then you will have your answer.

EDIT: Unless someone has a manometer that could be placed inside a case or a flow meter to check the exhausting air if we want to be more scientific lol.


----------



## solsamurai

This thread has been a wonderful resource.









I'm researching a case for a gaming rig I'm building for a friend and have found the following candidates:

CM HAF 922
CM 690 II Advanced
NZXT TEMPEST EVO
Fractal Design Arc Midi

Please note the price range. This is a semi-budget build. I need room to buy additional fans.







What do you guys think? Any of them windtunnel worthy?


----------



## ehume

Thank you for pointing out the Fractal Design. It looks to be an excellent case for flow-through airflow. Space for twin 140's in front and on top; 140-180mm side panel fan space. Bottom fan. And 140mm rear fan. That last means you can use an Archon. And this review says there is 2cm behind the MB, which is a nice space.

The NZXT is adequate, but with 120mm fans it's not quite the case the Fractal is. The 922 is also a pretty good case. Compared to the Fractal you decide whether you want solo 200mm fans or pairs of 140mm fans. Tough choice.

I myself would go with the Fractal because it is only 18.1 inches tall, and I am height constrained. But the NZXT offers up to 6 5.25 bays so you can put a fan in there for a straight shot to your cpu heatsink.

You get essentially the same opportunity with the HAF 922. Also, you can put a 120mm fan in a forward top position to feed fresh air to the cpu heatsink.

All three cases would be excellent.


----------



## solsamurai

Sweet. I like all the 140 action in the Fractal case and have wanted to build with one for awhile. It gets pretty warm in his apartment during the summer where he lives so decent airflow is crucial. Let's say I go with the Fractal...how would you tackle airflow? It's going to be a Phenom II 955 build with a GPU that will probably exhuast into the case. Looking at the Mugen 3 atm for cpu heatsink.









Thanks for the help.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai;14444484*
> Sweet. I like all the 140 action in the Fractal case and have wanted to build with one for awhile. It gets pretty warm in his apartment during the summer where he lives so decent airflow is crucial. Let's say I go with the Fractal...how would you tackle airflow? It's going to be a Phenom II 955 build with a GPU that will probably exhuast into the case. Looking at the Mugen 3 atm for cpu heatsink.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help.


Were it my case I would put the rear fan in the other front position, so you would have two front 140mm fans. Then cut out the rear grill. The top 140mm fan I'd put in the forward top position as an intake. Bottom fan - 140mm if one will fit, or a 120mm fan - intake. 180mm side panel fan. Try it exhaust vs intake, compare gpu load temps.

For the price of a Mugen 3 you could look at a CM V6 or a Tt Frio, if one is on sale cheaply enough. Or an HR-02 Macho.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehume*


Were it my case I would put the rear fan in the other front position, so you would have two front 140mm fans. Then cut out the rear grill. The top 140mm fan I'd put in the forward top position as an intake. Bottom fan - 140mm if one will fit, or a 120mm fan - intake. 180mm side panel fan. Try it exhaust vs intake, compare gpu load temps.

For the price of a Mugen 3 you could look at a CM V6 or a Tt Frio, if one is on sale cheaply enough. Or an HR-02 Macho.


Thanks ehume.







I'll check out the coolers mentioned as well.


----------



## solsamurai

Just found this Corsair case through another post on OCN...what do you think?


----------



## chinesethunda

i saw that corsair case too and it would seem like a good candidate, although not much info is on it at least to my knowledge. But it seems like it would be able to fit enough fans to produce good airflow. You could take out the unused hdd holders to improve air flow, add a bottom fan, cut out the rear grill, leave the fan there or not, up to you. top front intake and back exhaust or block it. You might be able to fit a 120mm fan in the front 5.25" bays if you only have a optical drive. 2 front fans is very good and if you could make it 3 then it would definitely be wind tunnel worthy if you had all intakes and just leave the rear exhaust open


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14457196*
> i saw that corsair case too and it would seem like a good candidate, although not much info is on it at least to my knowledge. But it seems like it would be able to fit enough fans to produce good airflow. You could take out the unused hdd holders to improve air flow, add a bottom fan, cut out the rear grill, leave the fan there or not, up to you. top front intake and back exhaust or block it. You might be able to fit a 120mm fan in the front 5.25" bays if you only have a optical drive. 2 front fans is very good and if you could make it 3 then it would definitely be wind tunnel worthy if you had all intakes and just leave the rear exhaust open


What about the side panel fan positions? Would you use them or block 'em off as well?


----------



## Bit_reaper

According to my own tests the side panel fan or fans helps cool the grafics cards by several degrees. That is with my cross fire setup. So if I were you I instal the two side fans. Supposedly the SilverStone air penetrators are porpouse built for this. Here is a demo video of them in action.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m8fC809TK0[/ame]

Edit: Took a closer look at the corsair case and it seems like an excellent choice.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bit_reaper;14458051*
> According to my own tests the side panel fan or fans helps cool the grafics cards by several degrees. That is with my cross fire setup. So if I were you I instal the two side fans. Supposedly the SilverStone air penetrators are porpouse built for this. Here is a demo video of them in action.
> ~video snip~
> 
> Edit: Took a closer look at the corsair case and it seems like an excellent choice.


Those fans look very promising. Thanks for the recommendation.







I'm really liking both the Fractal Design Midi and the Corsair Carbide 400R. Just depends on which one my friend likes more. I have plenty of time to research everything as he won't have the funds for a few months.


----------



## ehume

Corsair Carbide 400R looks promising too.


----------



## Siegfried262

I rather like the looks of that Fractal case. Very sleek.

I might just consider that over the Elysium when it comes to upgrade. There are always so many choices, both accomplish what I'd like to do and the Arc is significantly cheaper overall.

Use the three stock Fractal fans for front and side intakes, grab an Enermax T.B Silence 140 and 120 to populate the front top and bottom intakes, cut out the rear grill, and use some sound dampening foam to block the rearmost top intake slot. Not to mention remove the top hard drive cage so airflow isn't impeded from the topmost front intake.

It'd be interesting to put a 180mm fan in that side slot (Not many options though, I can't seem to find Fractal's 180mm fan anywhere. Otherwise there's Phobya and Silverstone 180mm fans I think) but I wonder how close it comes to the cpu heatsink area. Edit: From the Vortez review it looks like it'd be pretty close with a 140mm fan but you might be able to clear it if you can scooch it a bit down and jury rig the mount.

http://i.imgur.com/GKvVA.jpg

Barring that, what's your thought on the Define R3?

Two front 120mms, side 140mm (low enough to avoid a heatsink), bottom 120/140mm, two 120/140mm top fans and you can block the rearmost top vent from the get-go. Although you have to use 120mm fans (Up front) and they're pushing through the hard drive cages.


----------



## chinesethunda

wish i had enough money to test everything lol but yeah the new corsair carbide 400r seems to be making an entrance


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:



Barring that, what's your thought on the Define R3?


All those doors and vents in the front would significantly impede airflow. That's why I was looking at the Arc Midi for my friends build. I really like how the Define case look and get the Define Mini for a non-performance everyday build I plan on doing down the road.









Quote:



wish i had enough money to test everything lol but yeah the new corsair carbide 400r seems to be making an entrance


...at the same time I really like the 400R as well.


----------



## myst88

Been slowly reading through this thread, great resource and an absolute treasure trove of information. Good work guys!

Anyway I have a Corsair 600T SE, I know it's not the greatest case when it comes to cooling but I want to make some slight mods to try and beef it up. Namely putting a fan in the 3x 5.25" bays incased in foam. Also considering cutting a hole in the bottom near the HDD cage, there's room for a 120mm there.

Do you guys think turning the top 200mm fan from exhaust to intake would be a good idea? I'm worried that there'd be too much intake and not enough exhaust, but I also don't like the positioning of it as an exhaust - it looks like it just expels cold air before it ever gets sucked in by the heatsink.

My next question would be if anyone knows of any up to date fan guides. All the guides i've been looking at seem to be totally out of date, ranging from say 2005 to 2008. So i'm not too sure of which fans to purchase to get maximum performance for the 20-30 Db range. Gentle typhoon 1850's or 2150's seem to be the most promising. Anyone have any suggestions or know of any beastly fans?


----------



## Jvalen

I have a question about the NZXT Phantom. I recently had:

1 front- intake
2 top - exhaust
1 rear - exhaust
2 side - intake

I switched over the top front 200mm fan to an intake fan and noticed an average 6c degree drop on my cpu and gfx card. I plan on getting a 200mm side fan as an intake as well in a few weeks. My question is, do you think it is best to have that top rear fan stay as exhaust or should I switch it to intake? I am using a Noctua NH-D14 so the air that is being blown in the case from the front/side/top front is being thrown through my cooler and thrown out of the top rear and back.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jvalen*


I have a question about the NZXT Phantom. I recently had:

1 front- intake
2 top - exhaust
1 rear - exhaust
2 side - intake

I switched over the top front 200mm fan to an intake fan and noticed an average 6c degree drop on my cpu and gfx card. I plan on getting a 200mm side fan as an intake as well in a few weeks. My question is, do you think it is best to have that top rear fan stay as exhaust or should I switch it to intake? I am using a Noctua NH-D14 so the air that is being blown in the case from the front/side/top front is being thrown through my cooler and thrown out of the top rear and back.


Why not try it out and compare temps before and after? Oh and post them here of coarse.







If you have an idea and can try it out go for it! You could cut out the rear grill and remove the rear exhaust as well. That's be proven many times to be very effective.


----------



## SirWaWa

650D is the lowest i would go
700D is discontinued


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:



Originally Posted by *myst88*


Been slowly reading through this thread, great resource and an absolute treasure trove of information. Good work guys!

Anyway I have a Corsair 600T SE, I know it's not the greatest case when it comes to cooling but I want to make some slight mods to try and beef it up. Namely putting a fan in the 3x 5.25" bays incased in foam. Also considering cutting a hole in the bottom near the HDD cage, there's room for a 120mm there.

Do you guys think turning the top 200mm fan from exhaust to intake would be a good idea? I'm worried that there'd be too much intake and not enough exhaust, but I also don't like the positioning of it as an exhaust - it looks like it just expels cold air before it ever gets sucked in by the heatsink.

My next question would be if anyone knows of any up to date fan guides. All the guides i've been looking at seem to be totally out of date, ranging from say 2005 to 2008. So i'm not too sure of which fans to purchase to get maximum performance for the 20-30 Db range. Gentle typhoon 1850's or 2150's seem to be the most promising. Anyone have any suggestions or know of any beastly fans?


Noticed you didn't list a cpu cooler in your sig rig...stock or something else?

Can you fit 120 or 140s on top? Depending on your cpu headsink you could position one as intake in front of it and block off the back portion of the top of the case. Remove the back fan grill and try with and without a fan.

As for newer fan guides I'd search on OCN in air cooling forums for stuff like "200mm fan" or something similar. There are a ton of threads where people ask for fan recommendations and I've noticed the same brands are consistently mentioned.


----------



## ehume

Fan guides:

Items 1 and 4 in my sig.
These reviews: this, this, and this.


----------



## chinesethunda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *myst88;14464364*
> Been slowly reading through this thread, great resource and an absolute treasure trove of information. Good work guys!
> 
> Anyway I have a Corsair 600T SE, I know it's not the greatest case when it comes to cooling but I want to make some slight mods to try and beef it up. Namely putting a fan in the 3x 5.25" bays incased in foam. Also considering cutting a hole in the bottom near the HDD cage, there's room for a 120mm there.
> 
> Do you guys think turning the top 200mm fan from exhaust to intake would be a good idea? I'm worried that there'd be too much intake and not enough exhaust, but I also don't like the positioning of it as an exhaust - it looks like it just expels cold air before it ever gets sucked in by the heatsink.
> 
> My next question would be if anyone knows of any up to date fan guides. All the guides i've been looking at seem to be totally out of date, ranging from say 2005 to 2008. So i'm not too sure of which fans to purchase to get maximum performance for the 20-30 Db range. Gentle typhoon 1850's or 2150's seem to be the most promising. Anyone have any suggestions or know of any beastly fans?


for the most part, fans don't really change all that much i think. but if you read around people suggest usually a certain few fans that are some of the better ones, the links ehume has are really good
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jvalen;14465387*
> I have a question about the NZXT Phantom. I recently had:
> 
> 1 front- intake
> 2 top - exhaust
> 1 rear - exhaust
> 2 side - intake
> 
> I switched over the top front 200mm fan to an intake fan and noticed an average 6c degree drop on my cpu and gfx card. I plan on getting a 200mm side fan as an intake as well in a few weeks. My question is, do you think it is best to have that top rear fan stay as exhaust or should I switch it to intake? I am using a Noctua NH-D14 so the air that is being blown in the case from the front/side/top front is being thrown through my cooler and thrown out of the top rear and back.


i would suggest making the front top intake. I know it most likely won't clear your d14 but it will help the front and middle fan a bit. also try and put a fan in the drive bays as well if you can and leave your door open a bit. it helps alot with the intake of cool air

also i have read that the nzxt 200mm fans have the highest cfm although they are not true 200mm


----------



## Jvalen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*


i would suggest making the front top intake. I know it most likely won't clear your d14 but it will help the front and middle fan a bit. also try and put a fan in the drive bays as well if you can and leave your door open a bit. it helps alot with the intake of cool air


Thanks for the advice, I will be trying to get one of my fans to fit in the 5.25 bays. All I have now are 120mm fans that I don't think will get in that bay, but if I can find some way to hold it in place I think it will do. I know you also run your top rear as exhaust. Have you tried running it as intake as well?

I will be taking off the mesh back plate later today and doing some tests also with the temps I get. Hopefully it will help.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jvalen*


Thanks for the advice, I will be trying to get one of my fans to fit in the 5.25 bays. All I have now are 120mm fans that I don't think will get in that bay, but if I can find some way to hold it in place I think it will do. I know you also run your top rear as exhaust. Have you tried running it as intake as well?

I will be taking off the mesh back plate later today and doing some tests also with the temps I get. Hopefully it will help.










Look at item 10 in my sig. It's all about putting a 120mm or 140mm fan in your 5.25 bay.


----------



## Jvalen

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehume*


Look at item 10 in my sig. It's all about putting a 120mm or 140mm fan in your 5.25 bay.


Thanks a lot for the guide there. It took me about 5 mins, luckily I had some material lying around. I wont take a picture of it because it's not as neat as you're job, and kind of embarrassing







.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Jvalen*


Thanks a lot for the guide there. It took me about 5 mins, luckily I had some material lying around. I wont take a picture of it because it's not as neat as you're job, and kind of embarrassing







.


I am shocked that you consider my job to have anything neat about it.


----------



## myst88

Wow thank you for the very snappy and informative responses. I guess I'll have to test out different options as far as the top fan is concerned and just see for myself.

It's too bad those guides you linked don't measure static pressure, but all in all very useful stuff. I know that static pressure is usually only of concern when dealing with heatsinks and radiators, but I'd imagine it also helps when there's grills slightly restricting a fan as well.


----------



## APC

Hello

Excuse my english.

I have a Cooler master 840 with a [email protected] with a noctua NH-D14, Powercolor PCS+ 6970 & 3 hard disk

The airflow configuration I have think is

Only fan airflow See Picture

The fan 2 (200mm): I want to try it in intake and off.

Fans 3-5-8-9 are ZM-F3 LED (next nidtec 1850 with led)

http://www.zalman.com/eng/product/Product_Read.asp?idx=199

Fan 6-7 are nidtec 1850

Fan 4 is a cooler master storm force 200

http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/product.php?product_id=2917

Fan 1-2 are stock fan of ATCS 840 230MM

My ati 6970 puts hot air inside the case.

I put teh PSU face uo because i have my case on the floor And the dust is terrible. My PSU is a Corsair H1000.

What do you think? How can i Improve airflow?

Thanks


----------



## Siegfried262

Have you tried flipping that other top fan to bring in air as well? Another build log I read experienced a good temperature drop with two large top fans intaking rather than one. (This was in a Coolermaster HAF X)

Otherwise, it might help you if you flip your power supply (if you can) so it's intaking from the bottom vent of the ATCS 840 rather than fighting with the graphics card area for air. I saw you said you have a lot of dust but the 840 should have a filter on the bottom and it isn't too hard to clean. Is there anything you can set your case on so it's not directly on the floor?

See how your temperatures look with that other top fan intaking compared to just the front top fan intaking (Testing is always crucial).

It would also help for you to cut out the rear grill on that rear fan position if you can and possibly (Setup depending, as always) remove the rear fan because if you've got a lot of air coming from the front and top fans, the rear fan might actually impeded the escape of air and allow pressure to build up.


----------



## ROSALIA

Hello

The problem is that if I use second top fan as intake air I have just a fan as exhaust (the rear fan) and I do not think enough as exhaust.

I agree about cut out the rear grill but IÂ´m not a genius with dremel and I'm a little afraid of the result.

The filter of PSU is blocked by the fan at the bottom.

I have the option to change the Noctua by corsair H100. In that case the two fans above exchange by 3 120 mm fans where the first two sets, radiator and the third to take air out. 3 nidtec would use 1850.
In this case, my question is if the radiator fans get ******* air from outside or from inside the box. If I take air from the outside will better temperatures on the cpu but get hot air in the box. If I take air from the box interiror Do not put hot air in the box but I can break the general flow of air from the box.

As you see it?

Thanks and excuse my english


----------



## Bit_reaper

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ROSALIA*


Hello

The problem is that if I use second top fan as intake air I have just a fan as exhaust (the rear fan) and I do not think enough as exhaust.

I agree about cut out the rear grill but IÂ´m not a genius with dremel and I'm a little afraid of the result.

The filter of PSU is blocked by the fan at the bottom.

I have the option to change the Noctua by corsair H100. In that case the two fans above exchange by 3 120 mm fans where the first two sets, radiator and the third to take air out. 3 nidtec would use 1850.
In this case, my question is if the radiator fans get ******* air from outside or from inside the box. If I take air from the outside will better temperatures on the cpu but get hot air in the box. If I take air from the box interiror Do not put hot air in the box but I can break the general flow of air from the box.

As you see it?

Thanks and excuse my english


Having a lot more intake than exhaust is the hole idea of a positive pressure air flow design. The air will find its way out through the grafics card and other openings in the case.


----------



## chinesethunda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jvalen;14471898*
> Thanks for the advice, I will be trying to get one of my fans to fit in the 5.25 bays. All I have now are 120mm fans that I don't think will get in that bay, but if I can find some way to hold it in place I think it will do. I know you also run your top rear as exhaust. Have you tried running it as intake as well?
> 
> I will be taking off the mesh back plate later today and doing some tests also with the temps I get. Hopefully it will help.


I have tried running mine both as intake and both as exhaust as well. both as exhaust makes it hotter as the top front exhausts air before it reaches the cpu fans, both as intake blows the hot air from the rear of the cpu fans back into the case, by making the back corner as exhaust i keep most of the hot air in one general area
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jvalen;14472690*
> Thanks a lot for the guide there. It took me about 5 mins, luckily I had some material lying around. I wont take a picture of it because it's not as neat as you're job, and kind of embarrassing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


i don't think it will be too bad, I just shoved some foam from my case in there. pretty sure there's not much "niceness" that can be had with foam in a case lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ROSALIA;14484401*
> Hello
> 
> The problem is that if I use second top fan as intake air I have just a fan as exhaust (the rear fan) and I do not think enough as exhaust.
> 
> I agree about cut out the rear grill but I´m not a genius with dremel and I'm a little afraid of the result.
> 
> The filter of PSU is blocked by the fan at the bottom.
> 
> I have the option to change the Noctua by corsair H100. In that case the two fans above exchange by 3 120 mm fans where the first two sets, radiator and the third to take air out. 3 nidtec would use 1850.
> In this case, my question is if the radiator fans get ******* air from outside or from inside the box. If I take air from the outside will better temperatures on the cpu but get hot air in the box. If I take air from the box interiror Do not put hot air in the box but I can break the general flow of air from the box.
> 
> As you see it?
> 
> Thanks and excuse my english


you don't have to use a dremel, you could just use a nibbler as they are cheaper and easier to use. and it is okay to have more intake than exhaust. you could also open up your pci slots and let the air flow out there


----------



## Jvalen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14486295*
> I have tried running mine both as intake and both as exhaust as well. both as exhaust makes it hotter as the top front exhausts air before it reaches the cpu fans, both as intake blows the hot air from the rear of the cpu fans back into the case, by making the back corner as exhaust i keep most of the hot air in one general area. i don't think it will be too bad, I just shoved some foam from my case in there. pretty sure there's not much "niceness" that can be had with foam in a case lol


I tried the setup and noticed a nice drop in temps. The only thing I need to do now is get a side fan that will actually fit will with my NH-d14. I know the XIMATEK XLF are currently the only ones that can fit. My next question deals with the fan speeds themselves. How should I monitor them so that I don't create to much turbulence in my case? I know having the exhaust on 100% is necessary (at least I think lol), but how should I monitor my intake fans? Everything at the moment is running at 100% while gaming.


----------



## chinesethunda

everything at 100% sometimes cancels out other intakes, since you also have the phantom, il tell you what I did, I took out the side mesh and put the fan on the outside with the air filter. I know some might like their case nice and neat but I think it adds some character. Anyways I have my rear fan at 100% all the time and everything else at minimum even when gaming. the one in my drive bay is max as well because its directly connected to the psu. if you were to max anything, the front intake and the side 200mm should be all that you max, everything else just low in my opinion because that would create best airflow without much turbulance


----------



## supra_rz

Quote:


> Avoid Antec, except for the DF-85.


why would you avoid antec and especially the antec 1200? i cant imagine a better air cooling case when i do have 12 fans in it. Room temp 32celcius and in case temp 35celcius.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *supra_rz;14488103*
> why would you avoid antec and especially the antec 1200? i cant imagine a better air cooling case when i do have 12 fans in it. Room temp 32celcius and in case temp 35celcius.


Because the expensive overdecorated dumb chuck of a steel box has the typical Antec rear-only top fan. No flexibility for top intake. Otherwise, they had some good ideas.

The DF-85 has space for two fans on top. It also does very well in bit-tech case reviews, where they measure cooling performance. It's the only Antec case I would not avoid.


----------



## supra_rz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14488245*
> Because the expensive overdecorated dumb chuck of a steel box has the typical Antec rear-only top fan. No flexibility for top intake. Otherwise, they had some good ideas.
> 
> The DF-85 has space for two fans on top. It also does very well in bit-tech case reviews, where they measure cooling performance. It's the only Antec case I would not avoid.


i dont know, maybe cause i only had some crap cases my 1200 seems to me a great case. I will try a corsair case in the future but i dont expect it to be so much better than this " i s*ck air machine* i do have now.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *supra_rz;14496524*
> i dont know, maybe cause i only had some crap cases my 1200 seems to me a great case. I will try a corsair case in the future but i dont expect it to be so much better than this " i s*ck air machine* i do have now.


If you like cases with lot of fans you might want to try this :


----------



## ehume

There's an interesting back story to that case. It's made of 80mm fans. I'll see if I can find the narrative.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14497829*
> There's an interesting back story to that case. It's made of 80mm fans. I'll see if I can find the narrative.


Here you go. I had to follow some differents links to finally come to the original publication.

It doesn't seem worth it... The fact is that this guy found two boxes of 8cm fans


----------



## Siegfried262

Interesting read









It would have been interesting if he had tried all intake except the rear fans or just the top, front, and rear fans running.


----------



## ehume

I'll bet you could buy a batch of Yate Loon fans - they are cheaper in quantity - or even cheaper fans and do something like this again.


----------



## chinesethunda

would it be worth it? How would you have set it up ehume? I was gonna suggest the same as siegfried probably all intake cept for the back, probably wouldn't even need heat sink fans, just a big copper heat sink lol


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*


would it be worth it? How would you have set it up ehume? I was gonna suggest the same as siegfried probably all intake cept for the back, probably wouldn't even need heat sink fans, just a big copper heat sink lol


I suppose if a bunch of us had junk 80mm fans we could all send them in to a "build a case of fans" project. If you made a compact case it would be 2x5 fans on the ends, and 5x5 or 5x6 fans on the sides. Use plexiglass for the top and bottom.

That's 60-70 fans. Fasten the corners with zipties, ship off the plug ends and solder the wires together and you're good to go.

Or use 120mm fans, but you'd probably have to buy those . . .


----------



## adridu59

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehume*


I suppose if a bunch of us had junk 80mm fans we could all send them in to a "build a case of fans" project. If you made a compact case it would be 2x5 fans on the ends, and 5x5 or 5x6 fans on the sides. Use plexiglass for the top and bottom.

That's 60-70 fans. Fasten the corners with zipties, ship off the plug ends and solder the wires together and you're good to go.

Or use 120mm fans, but you'd probably have to buy those . . .












Interesting... I imagine that if you ask the whole OCN community by creating a project it would be easy to find these fans.


----------



## Siegfried262

Reminds me of a prototype case I saw mentioned a long while back on the forums here.

http://www.overclock.net/attachments...ht-box-one.jpg

Interesting front to back design, makes me wonder what the most effective air cooling design would be. Perhaps having three isolated heating zones, each with their own front to back cooling lines? (with maybe an additional top fan for the cpu area.). You'd have the CPU/Mosfet area, GPU/Southbridge area, and then the PSU & Hard Drives. Just a thought though.

I'd kick some money towards some Yate Loons if someone wanted a try a concept build like that huge case of fans.


----------



## somebodysb2

Will removing PCI covers and the motherboard IO shield improve airflow on my RV03?


----------



## Siegfried262

Considering the RV03 has copious venting on the top, I don't think you'd see much of a difference.

Removing the PCI covers certainly wouldn't hurt though. How is the RV03? It has an interesting layout.


----------



## somebodysb2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Siegfried262;14506236*
> Considering the RV03 has copious venting on the top, I don't think you'd see much of a difference.
> 
> Removing the PCI covers certainly wouldn't hurt though. How is the RV03? It has an interesting layout.


Well I'm removed the top panel too, temps dropped by 1c.


----------



## chinesethunda

why wouldn't you have fans on top and bottom? I guess bottom I can understand but the top intake and make everything intake?  i dunno seems like it could be plausible. I mean yate loons are pretty cheap and if you buy them in bulk lol


----------



## adridu59

@ehume @all

HybridCore pointed me to a news where _Puget Systems_ verified if the 90° rotation (Silverstone) had really advantages for temperatures. You might want to check.

http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/1088868-ts-puget-dissects-vertical-vs-horizontal.html
Quote:


> Puget found that convection plays a minimal role (if any) in desktop cooling because even the weakest fans impose far more force on a case's hot air than its natural buoyancy.


----------



## 161029

Credit all goes to Riou.







Would be interesting to see some tests from the fan man himself.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59;14577387*
> @ehume @all
> 
> HybridCore pointed me to a news where _Puget Systems_ verified if the 90° rotation (Silverstone) had really advantages for temperatures. You might want to check.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/hardware-news/1088868-ts-puget-dissects-vertical-vs-horizontal.html


Thanks for the reference. I saw that earlier, and did check. As I say under my avatar, Air Goes Where You Push It.

Silverstone is where I learned about top intake. They do theirs with a rearward top fan position, and I advocate a forward top fan position, but the principle is the same: push unheated air at your heatsink. Do not give your heatsink air that has been warmed by motherboard components and your gpu(s).


----------



## chinesethunda

and that idea works really well. most air conditioning vents are up higher, and in smaller rooms, the cool air will come from the top, so the top intake of cool air is very useful. I found this out with the top front intake and the drive bay intake because it cooled really well because my AC vent pretty much blew cool air directly at my case


----------



## solsamurai

So I'm getting closer to ordering the nibbler to cut out my rear fan grill and was wondering what I could use to smooth the edges if needed. I'm hoping the cuts are clean enough that I won't have to worry about it but want to know in advance what I can do.


----------



## deathrow9

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai;14597115*
> So I'm getting closer to ordering the nibbler to cut out my rear fan grill and was wondering what I could use to smooth the edges if needed. I'm hoping the cuts are clean enough that I won't have to worry about it but want to know in advance what I can do.


Buy a rotary tool(dremel) with some metal cutting heads and abrasive pads and you that should work, buy a better one if you case is higher quality or else the steel/aluminum will be to thick to cut.


----------



## chinesethunda

any kind of metal filer should work im pretty sure


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deathrow9;14597352*
> Buy a rotary tool(dremel) with some metal cutting heads and abrasive pads and you that should work, buy a better one if you case is higher quality or else the steel/aluminum will be to thick to cut.


I'd love to go with a dremel but live in an apartment.







The Klein Nibbler should do the job...OTOH I've never used a dremel before and don't know how loud/messy they are, lol.







Am I fretting over nothing?

@chinesethunda Would you suggest something more coarse or fine? I was thinking fine since it'll be smoothing out the edges of the honey comb pattern. I'll try to find a pic....


----------



## chinesethunda

well if you go to a hardware store im sure you can find them for cheap, i would say first find a coarse file just to get it down, im pretty sure that should do the job, but if it doesn then get a finer one. but imo you should be able to make do just with a regular medium metal file


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14597773*
> well if you go to a hardware store im sure you can find them for cheap, i would say first find a coarse file just to get it down, im pretty sure that should do the job, but if it doesn then get a finer one. but imo you should be able to make do just with a regular medium metal file


Right on. So how loud are dremel tools? Would cutting out fan grills produce alot metal shavings everywhere? I have a 10-month-old son who crawls around where I work on my PC so it's important I can keep the area clean.


----------



## LtCheese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai;14597708*
> Would you suggest something more coarse or fine? I was thinking fine since it'll be smoothing out the edges of the honey comb pattern. I'll try to find a pic....


Yeah a medium file will get the job done. You don't need surgical precision, but you also don't want to get your finger hacked off if you touch the edge lol


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LtCheese;14597849*
> Yeah a medium file will get the job done. You don't need surgical precision, but you also don't want to get your finger hacked off if you touch the edge lol


Lol, very true. I plan on getting on of these so my son can't hurt himself if he gets behind my rig like the lil' ninja he is.


----------



## chinesethunda

i would avoid the dremel. also if you dont have much use for it later, not really need for the money spent, the nibbler is nice and cheap, easy to clean up, and not really loud. the fan grill is perfect. i actually found some on ebay that was cheap from some company (guy) anyways i got them and its good, i mean its a fan guard, not much to it, just use the google shop tool i guess. anyways id say just get the nibbler and call it a day


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14598110*
> i would avoid the dremel. also if you dont have much use for it later, not really need for the money spent, the nibbler is nice and cheap, easy to clean up, and not really loud. the fan grill is perfect. i actually found some on ebay that was cheap from some company (guy) anyways i got them and its good, i mean its a fan guard, not much to it, just use the google shop tool i guess. anyways id say just get the nibbler and call it a day


Sounds good. Thanks for the help and I'll check out ebay as well for the fan grill.


----------



## ehume

Having long experience with files, I advise you not to use a coarse one at all. Coarse files make lots of grooves, each of which needs to be smoothed. And you can never get the edges to a silky smoothness.

There are people who work with metal and who know how to create smooth edges. I guess we need to consult a few. The important things about a nibbler is that it does not distort the metal as it cuts. Using tools like side cutters distorts the metal. The thing about Dremels and all power tools is that "the chips fall where they may," as do slivers and metal dust.

I wish I were more of an expert on shop stuff. I suspect there is a stiff glue-like gel that could cover the edges of a cut.

Do get four nylon nuts to back up your grill. Like this:










Can be found in car parts stores.


----------



## blep

I'm looking for a new case atm. Other than the haf 922, i really like the thermaltake element G, is this case any good for air cooling? I'm getting a scythe mugen 2 cpu cooler with it, so i want to be sure i get the best airflow.

http://www.thermaltake.com/products-model.aspx?id=C_00001440


----------



## Bit_reaper

Both are good air cooling cases but neither has dust filters so that is a minus. I don't think the element g is inferior to the haf 922 cooling wise so if you like the other aspects of the element g over the haf 922 buy the g. Personally I buy the HAF as it seams a lot more spacious wits I like.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14599330*
> Having long experience with files, I advise you not to use a coarse one at all. Coarse files make lots of grooves, each of which needs to be smoothed. And you can never get the edges to a silky smoothness.
> 
> There are people who work with metal and who know how to create smooth edges. I guess we need to consult a few. The important things about a nibbler is that it does not distort the metal as it cuts. Using tools like side cutters distorts the metal. The thing about Dremels and all power tools is that "the chips fall where they may," as do slivers and metal dust.
> 
> I wish I were more of an expert on shop stuff. I suspect there is a stiff glue-like gel that could cover the edges of a cut.
> 
> Do get four nylon nuts to back up your grill. Like this:


Thanks ehume. I'm hoping the nibbler will be precise enough that I won't need to file anything down. For the fan grill I'll use the rubber grommets that came with my case. If that doesn't work I know where to get some nylon nuts. Thanks for the pic.







Now just have to wait for next pay period to buy everything.


----------



## ToZeCHOPPA

This is a great thread, lots of interesting and informative stuff.

I'm also searching for a new case and I'm trying to decide between the nzxt beta evo, zalman z9, and the azza triton 401. I know they're all cheap options, but I'm on a tight budget. However I'm open to suggestions and wisdom.

nzxt: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811146059
azza: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811517016
zalman: [ame="[URL=http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=overclockdotnet-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FZ9-Atx-Mid-Tower-Case%2Fdp%2FB004I44JCE%2Fref%3Dsr_1_1%3Fs%3Delectronics%26ie%3DUTF8%26qid%3D1313539350%26sr%3D1-1]http://www.amazon.com/Z9-Atx-Mid-Tower-Case/dp/B004I44JCE/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1313539350&sr=1-1"]http://www.amazon.com/Z9-Atx-Mid-Tower-Case/dp/B004I44JCE/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1313539350&sr=1-1[/ame[/URL]]


----------



## ehume

With all Thermaltake (Tt) cases be sure to check on the space behind the motherboard tray. With a lot of Tt cases there is almost no room there. Their more recent cases may have changed this, but check.


----------



## chinesethunda

if possible get some cheap coolermaster cases or a haf if possible


----------



## ToZeCHOPPA

I might spring for the 692, it seems like a worthy investment for the future. But the zalman has a fan mounting well forward of the cpu, which would be good for intake.

Also @ehume, how did you mount the 140mm fan in the middle of your case?


----------



## chinesethunda

im guessing zip ties or velcro


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ToZeCHOPPA;14610061*
> I might spring for the 692, it seems like a worthy investment for the future. But the zalman has a fan mounting well forward of the cpu, which would be good for intake.
> 
> Also @ehume, how did you mount the 140mm fan in the middle of your case?


With a single eight-inch ziptie, circling through a screw hole and through some slots in the mb tray.


----------



## Maniak

Thanks for a great thread ehume. Something nice for me to read up on now that I'm beginning my plans for a new 2600k build after being out of the pc building scene for years.

+repped


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maniak;14620053*
> Thanks for a great thread ehume. Something nice for me to read up on now that I'm beginning my plans for a new 2600k build after being out of the pc building scene for years.
> 
> +repped


Hmm. Maniac. You fit right in there in Philly.


----------



## zchen

What do you guys think of the newer Cooler Master Storm Enforcer?

It's a HAF 912 with a different front bezel, has 200mm fan for lower front intake, 200mm exhaust fan or x2 120mm on top (which I would change to intake), and a rear 120mm exhaust. All I would need to to is add a 120mm intake to the top 5.25 bays right? Leave the door on or remove it (I think removing it is for the best). And having the x2 200mm fans instead of x4 120mm should cut down on noise as well.

The other case I was comparing is the CM Storm Scout, which has 140mm front intake, 140mm on the top, 120mm rear, and option for x2 120mm on the side.


----------



## chinesethunda

the enforcer seems like a good idea, but the scout is also quite solid, more research would have to be done, haven't looked into them with too much detail yet


----------



## Maniak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14620740*
> Hmm. Maniac. You fit right in there in Philly.


I'm actually an NY native. But I live in Philly for school. I don't really feel too fit when I wear my NY baseball caps everywhere =P

Anywho, I'm really, really really close to jumping on the HAF X case. Fans, space, sexy looks (beauty in the eye of the beholder and whatnot) and dust filters. Everything I need. I've been trying to see if I could find it relatively used or something so I could get it cheaper than what it is. We shall see.

Can't wait to try the tips and tricks I'm reading here on it.


----------



## BBEG

I really like seeing more cases with the removable/rotatable HDD drive bays. I hope that trend continues and grows.


----------



## chinesethunda

i wanna see cases with no rear grill >_> lol


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14628961*
> i wanna see cases with no rear grill >_> lol


Lian Li has a few newer models that do this.


----------



## chinesethunda

yeah, i know o well, thats what nibblers are for lol


----------



## solsamurai

Yep, finally ordering mine next week after I get paid along with a bunch of other items. Finally will be able to go for some decent positive pressure! A couple months later I plan on getting a replacement side panel with 140mm fan mounts.


----------



## chinesethunda

yeah, i plan to as well, now my concerns are whether i should block the back top fan or have it as intake


----------



## solsamurai

I tried my back top as intake and temps didn't improve...but this is with the rear 120 and fan grill still present. I'm going to get a TY-140 for top front intake, block rear top slot, cut out rear 120 grill and remove that fan. In theory this setup should give me better temps. The only exhaust in the case will be the rear 120 hole and the vented PCI slots.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zchen;14624905*
> What do you guys think of the newer Cooler Master Storm Enforcer?
> 
> It's a HAF 912 with a different front bezel, has 200mm fan for lower front intake, 200mm exhaust fan or x2 120mm on top (which I would change to intake), and a rear 120mm exhaust. All I would need to to is add a 120mm intake to the top 5.25 bays right? Leave the door on or remove it (I think removing it is for the best). And having the x2 200mm fans instead of x4 120mm should cut down on noise as well.
> 
> The other case I was comparing is the CM Storm Scout, which has 140mm front intake, 140mm on the top, 120mm rear, and option for x2 120mm on the side.


My question about the Storm Scout would be how wide is the main part of the case? The middle of the left panel bulges outward, which adds to the total width of the case; so the 8.6 inch width does not tell us how wide the main part of the case is.


----------



## chinesethunda

im hoping cutting out the back will help my temps, because i know the exhaust fans are messing with my airflow, i want to turn all my fans to max intake and see how it goes lol


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14635408*
> im hoping cutting out the back will help my temps, because i know the exhaust fans are messing with my airflow, i want to turn all my fans to max intake and see how it goes lol


ha, me too!


----------



## chinesethunda

are you planning to get the klein nibbler one or another one?


----------



## solsamurai

Klein Nibbler probably off Amazon.


----------



## chinesethunda

yeah i might have to get one lol, i was looking at the other nibblers and wanted to see if i could use those as some are cheaper, but the klein nibbler looks more useful


----------



## solsamurai

If it's a difference of a clean cut vs sloppy half cuts I'll gladly pay extra.


----------



## chinesethunda

makes sense lol i guess i would too


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Took a while, but I skimmed though this thread. 10,000 epic points to Elume!

Shocked there was no love for the CM690II AD/B.
And I'm always shocked at how many people are willing to pay so much for an antec case when there are plenty of case's out there in the Sub $100 price range with more feature's. epic thread though!


----------



## chinesethunda

its more of how the cases are designed i guess, preferably some lian li case are good cuz of no rear grill but others are good too


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing;14637611*
> Took a while, but I skimmed though this thread. 10,000 epic points to Elume!
> 
> Shocked there was no love for the CM690II AD/B.
> And I'm always shocked at how many people are willing to pay so much for an antec case when there are plenty of case's out there in the Sub $100 price range with more feature's. epic thread though!


Seems like a decent enough case...like chinesethunda said the design plays a factor too. I personally don't like how CM cases look. I'm already thinking about something more professional looking than my current case, lol.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai;14637883*
> Seems like a decent enough case...like chinesethunda said the design plays a factor too. I personally don't like how CM cases look. I'm already thinking about something more professional looking than my current case, lol.


Yea, it dose have the "Gamer" look to it. I'm just in love with all it provides for only 80 bucks! This is i think the best looking 690IIAD EVER
Sexy 690IIAD Can you say HAWT!


----------



## ehume

I like the 690 II a lot.

BTW - the other night I removed some of the slot pillars from the backplane of my Beta Evo. The Nibbler took them off cleanly. Where I had a guide so the cuts followed a straight line the edges of the cuts lined up to make an even edge. Nice.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14639105*
> I like the 690 II a lot.


When I got my 690II I followed your guilds to the T, only thing I have yet to do is cut out the rear grill, and WOW! I have no dust in my system EVER, droped the noise of my PC down ALOT! Lastly temps where much cooler! Thanks Elume!


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:



Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing*


When I got my 690II I followed your guilds to the T, only thing I have yet to do is cut out the rear grill, and WOW! I have no dust in my system EVER, droped the noise of my PC down ALOT! Lastly temps where much cooler! Thanks Elume!


Whoo! That's the kind of response I hope to have with my case in a couple weeks.
















That orange 690 was cool...check out Project Citrus.







He achieved really good positive pressure as well in the process. Cut a hole behind the m/b tray for exhaust only (no fan) and tons of air blows out! Nice.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *solsamurai*


Whoo! That's the kind of response I hope to have with my case in a couple weeks.
















That orange 690 was cool...check out Project Citrus.







He achieved really good positive pressure as well in the process. Cut a hole behind the m/b tray for exhaust only (no fan) and tons of air blows out! Nice.










Sexy!


----------



## chinesethunda

il probably cut out the side pillars as well as the rear grill, also probably attach a fan behind the hard drives for some more air to the GPU, I guess the only 2 places for passive exhaust is the rear exhaust the PCI slots right?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14644155*
> il probably cut out the side pillars as well as the rear grill, also probably attach a fan behind the hard drives for some more air to the GPU, I guess the only 2 places for passive exhaust is the rear exhaust the PCI slots right?


----------



## chinesethunda

hard to tell, but is that fan close to the PCI slots of right behind the HDD cage?


----------



## Siegfried262

Does your case lose any structural integrity without those pillars on the PCI slots?


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Siegfried262*


Does your case lose any structural integrity without those pillars on the PCI slots?


It shouldnt, if the case is of decent quality. Might be an issue with an el cheapo case.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*


hard to tell, but is that fan close to the PCI slots of right behind the HDD cage?


----------



## chinesethunda

super ghetto lol, your hdds are on a hdd holder? looool
question though, does that bottom fan intake help with temps? i remember you did a test on it before and said it didn't increase temps much, il probably be putting a fan behind my hdds as well to help pull some air through to the GPU


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14653738*
> super ghetto lol, your hdds are on a hdd holder? looool
> question though, does that bottom fan intake help with temps? i remember you did a test on it before and said it didn't increase temps much, il probably be putting a fan behind my hdds as well to help pull some air through to the GPU


With my rig it helped out alot when I OCed my card..but only on heavy heavy load's.


----------



## chinesethunda

so bottom intake helps a bit, okay hey ehume how would the temps be if you sectioned the case in half? so the GPU and CPU are seperate and each get their own fan directly blowing air to them? kinda like the thread with the duct to the CPU with the CD case


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14653949*
> so bottom intake helps a bit, okay hey ehume how would the temps be if you sectioned the case in half? so the GPU and CPU are seperate and each get their own fan directly blowing air to them? kinda like the thread with the duct to the CPU with the CD case


If I had a hot gpu I'd do exactly that. You will see me recommending packets of stiff plastic sheets - you get them from hobby shops. Model train set builders make buildings with the stuff.


----------



## chinesethunda

that's true, I guess your cpu/gpu doesn't get hot enough to do that lol, what are your cpu/gpu load temps right now on that rig you showed?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14654115*
> that's true, I guess your cpu/gpu doesn't get hot enough to do that lol, what are your cpu/gpu load temps right now on that rig you showed?


About 55 to 57c TOA. The top end was about 1c better when I used low profile RAM. But I swapped my low profile for Ripjaws so my testbed rig would have the low profile stuff. The raised fan has lost me 1c in cooling.

Edit: the above is when its running LinX/Linpack 4011MHz with Vcore at 1.36v. It's an i7 875k. By comparison, my i7 860 doesn't run quite as hot: Vcore is only 1.312v at 4004MHz.


----------



## SkyeHack

Is mine good according to the video?


----------



## ehume

Looks good to me.


----------



## SirWaWa

if your move your dvd drive u can fit a 120mm or 140mm fan in there for even better cooling (need 3 bays)


----------



## chinesethunda

you could just fit a 80mm fan or something in there, or a 90mm fan, whichever is biggest that can fit there


----------



## Velathawen

Hey guys, I'm currently at a position where I can change cases. I have been looking at the Lancool K-62 as it is affordable and provides all the options that have been recommended. I plan to do a similar set up as the one ehume is currently using in the NZXT Beta.

I have two questions:
1. The components will be my sig rig, and I'm wondering if it would be foolish to not go with a Full-size tower when I can.

2. How bad is the dust with positive air pressure if I add a side-intake on the side panel?

Thanks!


----------



## adridu59

^ Mid-Tower and Full-Tower are equal...

There is less volume in a Mid-Tower and also smaller fans due to size. Mid-Tower = Full-Tower.


----------



## chinesethunda

full tower all the way lol


----------



## BBEG

Mental exercise: how do you think a case will do if the only air flow into the case comes through filters, with fans exhausting more air from the case than pulling air into it?


----------



## LtCheese

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BBEG;14737806*
> Mental exercise: how do you think a case will do if the only air flow into the case comes through filters, with fans exhausting more air from the case than pulling air into it?


It would be a vacuum cleaner without the bag. A total dust magnet with tons of stagnant hot air messing with temperatures and logical airflow


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BBEG;14737806*
> Mental exercise: how do you think a case will do if the only air flow into the case comes through filters, with fans exhausting more air from the case than pulling air into it?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LtCheese;14737842*
> It would be a vacuum cleaner without the bag. A total dust magnet with tons of stagnant hot air messing with temperatures and logical airflow


LtCheese ninja'd me lul


----------



## chinesethunda

through the fans is filters yes, but through the cracks and stuff don't have filters, true it might only be minimal dust, but cases usually always have some gaping holes somewhere lol


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14738044*
> through the fans is filters yes, but through the cracks and stuff don't have filters, true it might only be minimal dust, but cases usually always have some gaping holes somewhere lol


Like?


----------



## hawkeeyee

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BBEG;14737806*
> Mental exercise: how do you think a case will do if the only air flow into the case comes through filters, with fans exhausting more air from the case than pulling air into it?


almost zalman gs1000 cooling -> 3 outake fans and that's all
have to say temperatures were normaln but higher than in raven evolution


----------



## BBEG

Quote:



Originally Posted by *LtCheese*


It would be a vacuum cleaner without the bag. A total dust magnet with tons of stagnant hot air messing with temperatures and logical airflow


I don't see how this is logical at all. If you seal up the case so the only air flowing into or out of it goes through fan mounts, and the only ways in are filtered, dust would be a nonissue and it shouldn't be any more dusty than a case with fans pulling more air in than exhausting it out.

My main curiosity is what air flow looks like; I was not a physics student and thermodynamics is a wee bit outside my scope of education.


----------



## chinesethunda

well for me i have gaping holes around my side fan because its on the outside and no mesh to cover it, so areas with mesh are dust magnets, PCI slots? 5.25" drive bay areas are also areas where dust can get in


----------



## BBEG

There are several effective ways of sealing off the case (electric tape, oversized filters, etc.), but you're getting caught up on the minutia. Assume you've already figured out a way to completely seal the case except for fan mounts.

If one can accomplish the same dust-free environment as 'greater intake than exaust' setups but with fewer fans, then the idea is definitely worth thinking about.


----------



## ehume

There are ways to buy and build filters for the side panel. I'll take a picture of mine the next time I take my rig down to the basement.

If you can truly seal each and every place where case panels join together, each spot, where air might go in, then you can have a negative pressure rig with minimal dust collection. But look at this:










That's an intake fan in the top of my 5.25 bay. When I pulled the front fascia off I found dust on that fan. I now have filters over my IO plate because the dust got through all those little slots.

Everywhere else my fans are fully filtered. I have only those filtered intake fans and no exhaust fans. I get far less dust that way. I recommend the practice.

You can see my current airflow by clicking on my username (over the avatar) and selecting View Public Profile.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BBEG;14740526*
> There are several effective ways of sealing off the case (electric tape, oversized filters, etc.), but you're getting caught up on the minutia. Assume you've already figured out a way to completely seal the case except for fan mounts.
> 
> If one can accomplish the same dust-free environment as 'greater intake than exaust' setups but with fewer fans, then the idea is definitely worth thinking about.


yes, _if_ you could seal up the case, yes negitive pressure is worth thinking about. the problem is you would be "taping" your sidle pannels on, you would have to gasket your sidewindows(on case's that have them). Its pretty much a fact that negitive pressure case's are dust collectors. It wold be ALOT of work to achive a negitive pressure case that has little dust being sucked into it.


----------



## kevindd992002

Is the fan that will be located on the center of the case (suspended by zip ties) and blowing directly to the GPU usually effective and recommended?


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002;14746456*
> Is the fan that will be located on the center of the case (suspended by zip ties) and blowing directly to the GPU usually effective and recommended?


Was effctive in my 690IIAD.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002;14746456*
> Is the fan that will be located on the center of the case (suspended by zip ties) and blowing directly to the GPU usually effective and recommended?


Mine is effective. I can feel the difference it makes at the back of the case. Also, because of the peculiarities of my case, the mid-case fan pulls air through a tunnel - the one-drive 3.5 bay. I had to put a filter at the front to keep the dust out.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14746560*
> Mine is effective. I can feel the difference it makes at the back of the case. Also, because of the peculiarities of my case, the mid-case fan pulls air through a tunnel - the one-drive 3.5 bay. I had to put a filter at the front to keep the dust out.


So as usual a 140mm would be better in place in that area? And what do you use to suspend that fan there?


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Ehume, I'm soooo glad you made this thread...I can just cut n paste it to peeps lol. so many people dont understand the idea of a positive pressure case. I cant thank you enough for your had work in PC air cooling. It has done WOUNDERS for my PC case!


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002;14746612*
> So as usual a 140mm would be better in place in that area? And what do you use to suspend that fan there?


I use a single 8-inch ziptie. I did use a couple of 140mm fans there, but I like the higher velocity air I get from a 120mm fan. It's not a case intake fan, and it's where the noise doesn't get out.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing;14746614*
> Ehume, I'm soooo glad you made this thread...I can just cut n paste it to peeps lol. so many people dont understand the idea of a positive pressure case. I cant thank you enough for your had work in PC air cooling. It has done WOUNDERS for my PC case!


I'm glad you were able to make good use of it. I noticed you had followed the positive airflow plan.

I'm pondering putting stiff plastic sheets/panels between my cpu cooler and my gpu, except that my gpu makes so little heat that I would probably see little if any difference. You can get pieces of stiff plastic at hobby stores. Model train enthusiasts use them for making model buildings.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14746835*
> I use a single 8-inch ziptie. I did use a couple of 140mm fans there, but I like the higher velocity air I get from a 120mm fan. It's not a case intake fan, and it's where the noise doesn't get out.
> 
> I'm glad you were able to make good use of it. I noticed you had followed the positive airflow plan.
> 
> I'm pondering putting stiff plastic sheets/panels between my cpu cooler and my gpu, except that my gpu makes so little heat that I would probably see little if any difference. You can get pieces of stiff plastic at hobby stores. Model train enthusiasts use them for making model buildings.


Ok. Which 120mm fan do you recommend for that purpose? Where do you connect yours?

Can you post a picture of the stiff plastic sheets you're referring to?


----------



## chinesethunda

so i have a bottom fan and a inside fan pretty much at 90 degrees of each other i think that the bottom fan is negating the usefulness of the inside fan lol blowing on the GPU


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14746835*
> I use a single 8-inch ziptie. I did use a couple of 140mm fans there, but I like the higher velocity air I get from a 120mm fan. It's not a case intake fan, and it's where the noise doesn't get out.
> 
> *I'm glad you were able to make good use of it. I noticed you had followed the positive airflow plan.*
> 
> *I'm pondering putting stiff plastic sheets/panels between my cpu cooler and my gpu, except that my gpu makes so little heat that I would probably see little if any difference. You can get pieces of stiff plastic at hobby stores. Model train enthusiasts use them for making model buildings*.


Yes, I put your info to great use!
Second, in my case, my GPU is so long that i dont think I need to section it off lol, but its worth a try!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14747153*
> so i have a bottom fan and a inside fan pretty much at 90 degrees of each other i think that the bottom fan is negating the usefulness of the inside fan lol blowing on the GPU


This is possible, unplug the floor fan and see in my set up it helps out some though.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14746835*
> I use a single 8-inch ziptie. I did use a couple of 140mm fans there, but I like the higher velocity air I get from a 120mm fan. It's not a case intake fan, and it's where the noise doesn't get out.


How do you install it with just a single 8-inch ziptie?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002;14747354*
> How do you install it with just a single 8-inch ziptie?












The ziptie threads through an opening in the mb tray, then through the upper left screwhole of the mid-case fan, then behind the right edge of the mb tray, finally meeting the end of the ziptie on the other side. I don't cinch it up all the way, since doing that aims the fan where I don't want it to go.

You can see how the top of the fan pulls on the 3.5 bay.

The fan is an AP-14 connected to a single channel fan controller that is velcro'd on the bottom of the 5.25 bay on the other side of the 3.5 bay. I adjusted it to my taste. Because it is a GT it can handle even the cheapest fan controller with no bad sounds. I wanted to put an AP-13 in there but I only have two of those, and I'm using them for fan testing. Hence the controller.

And yes, the bottom fan makes a difference. I think the bottom intake is deflected by the mid-case fan.


----------



## chinesethunda

only problem is, in my case, the bottom fan is touching the bottom of the mid case fan, not that far apart like in yours. so idk... il have to unplug it to see


----------



## ehume

I was asked this question in a PM:
Quote:


> It seems that I forgot to consider that I have the MSI Hawk GTX 560 Ti which has dumps 50% heat to the center of the case.
> 
> What is your suggestion with this?


I'm thinking that if I had two side panel fans, side by side at about the level of my video cards, that I would like the rear (left) fan bringing air into the intake fans of the video cards. Then I would have the forward (right) side panel fan pulling air out of the case around where the video cards are exhausting it - their front ends.

Anyway, that's my first thought. Probably the question of how to cope with video card exhaust deserves its own thread saince the question comes up so often, and there is extensive disagreement on the topic.


----------



## Wildcard36qs

Here is how my current setup is, and one I am thinking about going to. I have 4 fans total (found a couple 120mm lying around) + the H50 setup. The way I have it currently is just 2 120mm fans, one in front intake, one up top exhaust, and the rear H50 as intake. This of course, is awesome temps for my H50, but my GPU gets fairly hot as it just blows air into the case. So you suggest I should make everything intake except the rear exhaust?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wildcard36qs;14762342*
> Here is how my current setup is, and one I am thinking about going to. I have 4 fans total (found a couple 120mm lying around) + the H50 setup. The way I have it currently is just 2 120mm fans, one in front intake, one up top exhaust, and the rear H50 as intake. This of course, is awesome temps for my H50, but my GPU gets fairly hot as it just blows air into the case. So you suggest I should make everything intake except the rear exhaust?


Dunno. I'd say use a side panel intake fan, except your case doesn't allow for that iirc. You might post this as a thread starter in the water cooling section and see what wc's do.


----------



## ehume

BTW - this is what i suggest for partitioning one's case into cpu and gpu sections:










The panels are 0.8mm and 0.5mm thick.


----------



## QuackPot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wildcard36qs;14762342*
> Here is how my current setup is, and one I am thinking about going to. I have 4 fans total (found a couple 120mm lying around) + the H50 setup. The way I have it currently is just 2 120mm fans, one in front intake, one up top exhaust, and the rear H50 as intake. This of course, is awesome temps for my H50, but my GPU gets fairly hot as it just blows air into the case. So you suggest I should make everything intake except the rear exhaust?


If I were you, I'd use the first setup and have an exhaust side fan.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14755823*
> I was asked this question in a PM:
> 
> I'm thinking that if I had two side panel fans, side by side at about the level of my video cards, that I would like the rear (left) fan bringing air into the intake fans of the video cards. Then I would have the forward (right) side panel fan pulling air out of the case around where the video cards are exhausting it - their front ends.
> 
> Anyway, that's my first thought. Probably the question of how to cope with video card exhaust deserves its own thread saince the question comes up so often, and there is extensive disagreement on the topic.


I have the HAF 922 case and removing the 200mm side intake fan would yield me slots for two 140/120mm fans but in a lower/upper orientation (not left/right as per your suggestion above) so how would I be able to remedy this problem in this given situation?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002;14768111*
> I have the HAF 922 case and removing the 200mm side intake fan would yield me slots for two 140/120mm fans but in a lower/upper orientation (not left/right as per your suggestion above) so how would I be able to remedy this problem in this given situation?


Velcro?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14768461*
> Velcro?


Ok.

With two side fans (intake and exhaust) beside each other, won't the cool air being intake by the left fan be immediately exhausted by the right fan for that setup?


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002;14769539*
> Ok.
> 
> With two side fans (intake and exhaust) beside each other, won't the cool air being intake by the left fan be immediately exhausted by the right fan for that setup?


I would have both side fans as intake. I agree that the above mentioned setup doesn't seem effective. My side new side panel (on it's way finally!) has two 140 slots but due to my cpu cooler I can only use the bottom slot. Otherwise I would do a test of both configs myself.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:



Originally Posted by *solsamurai*


I would have both side fans as intake. I agree that the above mentioned setup doesn't seem effective. My side new side panel (on it's way finally!) has two 140 slots but due to my cpu cooler I can only use the bottom slot. Otherwise I would do a test of both configs myself.










Well, the left side intake and right side exhaust config was suggested by Ehume to possibly solve the problem of the 50% heat dump of Twin Frozr video cards.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002;14773200*
> Well, the left side intake and right side exhaust config was suggested by Ehume to possibly solve the problem of the 50% heat dump of Twin Frozr video cards.


He has experimented more than I have.







How 'bout you try both configs and post the results?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002;14769539*
> Ok.
> 
> With two side fans (intake and exhaust) beside each other, won't the cool air being intake by the left fan be immediately exhausted by the right fan for that setup?


I would try it - first with just the two fans, and second with some plastic paneling separating the gpu's air intake from its exhaust. It seems to me that partitioning is the only rational response to video cards that dump air into the middle of a case.

But testing various configurations is the only true arbiter.


----------



## Velathawen

Sorry for the wall of text!

Hey guys I've run into an interesting little problem and I'm not sure how to go about resolving it. I currently run two GTX 460 and fold pretty much 24/7 on them, and recently changed my case from a P183 to a Lancool K62. My CPU temps have dropped a beautiful 10C when folding (71c -> 55to 59c depending on the day, no AC!), but now I'm experiencing significant heat issues with my two GPU, to the point where I have had to cut down quite a bit on the folding.

Unfortunately, I did not take any pictures of my dual 460 in my P183 before transitioning out of it, but I hope I can still get my point across.

Pic 1 - My previous set up which had two 9800GT instead of my second GTX 460. I also had my Essence STX right below the bottom 460.

Pic 2 - The second pic shows my current layout.

Pic 3 - The third picture illustrates my current airflow. The two top fans have been reversed from exhaust to be intakes, I wanted to best illustrate the lower area, so I didn't have room to fit the top fans into the shot. There is a 12cm D12SH right below my dvd burner. With it off, my CPU temps rise 2-3C, and my top 460 runs 5-6C hotter.

I have noted two distinct differences between the P183 and my current K62:
1. There is a physical separator that divines the main mobo area and the psu/hdd cage below.
2. The front intake fan on the P183 was at the same level as my two GTX 460s, providing unhindered fresh air. With my K62, the front intake is positioned slightly below my bottom 460 and has a wall of 4 HDD in front.

With my previous set up in the P183, my top card ran slightly hotter (79C) compared to the bottom card's 68C. Currently, the temps are reversed but to greater extremes. The top card runs at 65C and the bottom card has hit 99C on several occasions prompting driver crashes. These are temps with full fan speed. I have tried removing my Essence STX and the bottom card's temps drop dramatically back down to the mid 60's. Unfortunately, my AsRock Extreme 6 motherboard does not allow me to use the STX in the top slot because the NB heatsink is in the way. I have contacted AsRock's Distributor here in HK and they have said that they will void warranty if any physical damage or alteration has been made.

The one idea I have left is to mod the side panel to fit a 140 mm intake with a TY-140 fan or something. Unfortunately, I lack the tools and know-how to make such a mod. Does Lian-Li//Lancool sell such a side panel with a window? The only one I've seen on their site is one with two 12cm mounts.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Velathawen;14793809*
> Sorry for the wall of text!
> 
> Hey guys I've run into an interesting little problem and I'm not sure how to go about resolving it.


To add a fan to a side pannel is easy! tons of youtube vids on how to do it.
But if you dont want to modd, I would use zip ties and place a fan hangging off the back of the GPU rack blowing air at the two 460's. if it dose not help you have made no perm change's to the case. How ever I think a side intake fan will fix your problem. Those are some insane GPU temps, 99c on a 460 is wicked even in SLI!


----------



## mikupoiss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14755823*
> Probably the question of how to cope with video card exhaust deserves its own thread saince the question comes up so often, and there is extensive disagreement on the topic.


One could create a shroud channel sort of, provided you got powerful enough fan pulling at one end. It should work based on assumptions I've made during studied buildings vent-systems. Of course it's not the same, but worth to consider?


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Velathawen;14793809*
> Sorry for the wall of text!
> 
> The one idea I have left is to mod the side panel to fit a 140 mm intake with a TY-140 fan or something. Unfortunately, I lack the tools and know-how to make such a mod. Does Lian-Li//Lancool sell such a side panel with a window? The only one I've seen on their site is one with two 12cm mounts.


I have teh K62 as well and just got this side panel today (x2 140mm fan mounts)! Anything like what you're looking for? I also rotated my HDD cage to allow more airflow into the bottom of the case.










Hope that helps!


----------



## Velathawen

Does rotating the hdd cage actually make a difference?

The side panel you linked looks perfect, here's to hoping the hk distributor carries it.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Velathawen*


Does rotating the hdd cage actually make a difference?

The side panel you linked looks perfect, here's to hoping the hk distributor carries it.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk


I'll post some picks monday or tuesday once I'm done installing everything.







I gained a 1-2c drop in temps on my GPU and a little more on the HDDs. I plan on replacing the stock fan with something that will pull air through the front mesh more effectively. This should net at least a couple more degrees C based on what I achieved simply by rotating the cage. Of coarse I have only two HDDs so more air can flow through than if it was full.

Even with right angle cables it was difficult to install the HDDs as shown in the pic above. I've seen others flip them around and were still able to tuck most of the cables out of the way. Check out the official club in my sig if you haven't already.









I'll be back around OCN Monday. Have a good weekend.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Velathawen*


With my previous set up in the P183, my top card ran slightly hotter (79C) compared to the bottom card's 68C. Currently, the temps are reversed but to greater extremes. The top card runs at 65C and the bottom card has hit 99C on several occasions prompting driver crashes. These are temps with full fan speed. *I have tried removing my Essence STX and the bottom card's temps drop dramatically back down to the mid 60's.* Unfortunately, my AsRock Extreme 6 motherboard does not allow me to use the STX in the top slot because the NB heatsink is in the way. I have contacted AsRock's Distributor here in HK and they have said that they will void warranty if any physical damage or alteration has been made.


I have bolded the relevant issue: your sound card blocks the lower video card's air intake. Just as global temperature is dictated by the sun's output, your vidcard's cooling is dictated by the available intake. Closing off that intake closes off your cooling.

Playing around with side fans will not change this. In order to adequately cool your lower card you must either do without the sound card, get a different motherboard (one that does not block the top slot with an unnecessary heatsink), or get a slot extension that allows you to place your sound card in the quasi slot that is above the mb and parallel to it. And don't ask me where to buy those extensions because I don't know.


----------



## Velathawen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14801586*
> I have bolded the relevant issue: your sound card blocks the lower video card's air intake. Just as global temperature is dictated by the sun's output, your vidcard's cooling is dictated by the available intake. Closing off that intake closes off your cooling.
> 
> Playing around with side fans will not change this. In order to adequately cool your lower card you must either do without the sound card, get a different motherboard (one that does not block the top slot with an unnecessary heatsink), or get a slot extension that allows you to place your sound card in the quasi slot that is above the mb and parallel to it. And don't ask me where to buy those extensions because I don't know.


Logically, that seems to be the conclusion, but I don't understand why I *didn't* have this problem with my P183 with the exact layout. That was kind of the main reason I initially made my post. I wanted to better understand why.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Velathawen;14803706*
> Logically, that seems to be the conclusion, but I don't understand why I *didn't* have this problem with my P183 with the exact layout. That was kind of the main reason I initially made my post. I wanted to better understand why.


Maby the fact that the Antec case is a tad larger affected airflow that much? the antec is wider, longer and slightly taller...this might affect how the flow of air to the GPU section of teh case is? but that is a total stab in the dark.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Velathawen;14803706*
> Logically, that seems to be the conclusion, but I don't understand why I *didn't* have this problem with my P183 with the exact layout. That was kind of the main reason I initially made my post. I wanted to better understand why.


Hmm. From your earlier posts it looked like you had switched motherboards when you switched cases. If you kept the same mb and video cards when you changed cases, it is indeed a puzzle.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai;14800234*
> I'll post some picks monday or tuesday once I'm done installing everything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I gained a 1-2c drop in temps on my GPU and a little more on the HDDs. I plan on replacing the stock fan with something that will pull air through the front mesh more effectively. This should net at least a couple more degrees C based on what I achieved simply by rotating the cage. Of coarse I have only two HDDs so more air can flow through than if it was full.
> 
> Even with right angle cables it was difficult to install the HDDs as shown in the pic above. I've seen others flip them around and were still able to tuck most of the cables out of the way. Check out the official club in my sig if you haven't already.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be back around OCN Monday. Have a good weekend.


What tool did you use to disassemble and rotate the HDD cage? Would that be the optimal placement of the cage? The connectors on the side closest to the front fan?


----------



## chinesethunda

i thought about rotating my hdd cage but too bad mine is attached to the case and i would have to drill it out


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002;14818575*
> What tool did you use to disassemble and rotate the HDD cage? Would that be the optimal placement of the cage? The connectors on the side closest to the front fan?


My case (Lancool PC-K62) has four little screws on the bottom and one on top of the HDD cage. Removing the screws allows the cage to be rotated. There are screw holes on the bottom of the case for both orientations as documented in the case manual.







I like to hide my cables so I went the harder, more annoying route of orienting the HDD's so that the connectors/cables are facing the front of the case. Is was a HUGE pain to guide everything in there with two HDDs. One would have been a piece of cake. This setup yields more airflow in my case but may be different in yours. Hope that helps.


----------



## Velathawen

I demand the pictures you promised solsamurai!


----------



## qussl3

Hi all,

Not very sure where else to place this, but i've been intrigued by silverstone's 90 degree rotated motherboard designs and how this affects aircooled performance.

Do you think it is possible to replicate or exceed that performance in traditional atx or inverted atx orientations in both single gpu and multi gpu scenarios within the same or similar sound envelope.

Thanks!!


----------



## chinesethunda

sure, if you have good air flow setup. as shown in the OP that you have good fans and maybe cut out the rear grill and clean airflow, as well as a good cooler, that performance can be easily matched. then again you could go watercooling lol


----------



## Unlimate

My HDD run to hot about 39 C
This front fan is running i think only at 900RPM if i replace with more powerful fan for example with 2000RPM will it help???


----------



## chinesethunda

it should help yes


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Yes, but keep in mind that a HDD will work better and last longer it its temp is right around 35c/95f.


----------



## [email protected]

I would love to see that smoke experiment done on HAF X cases and Antec 1200 cases. Would love to see how the air travels to







Great experiement and does help figure out where your air regulates to! Especially for water coolers! Sealed ones that is.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Velathawen*


I demand the pictures you promised solsamurai!


Soon I promise! I haven't forgotten!







I'm going to finish up this weekend...


----------



## Unlimate

Thanks i will try


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected];14871633*
> I would love to see that smoke experiment done on HAF X cases and Antec 1200 cases. Would love to see how the air travels to
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great experiement and does help figure out where your air regulates to! Especially for water coolers! Sealed ones that is.


Positive pressure is magic.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCQf9Z3WhpE[/ame]


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *adridu59*


Positive pressure is magic.


Yes, it is. I'm still amazed at how many people refuse to admit it too.


----------



## ehume

One thing adridu's testing makes clear: even vented slot covers are an impediment to airflow.

I knw this is asking a lot, but could you do a test that compares airflow with slot covers on and with all unused slot covers removed?

In my own case I removed not only the slot covers but the metal strips - they look like pillars - between the slots. I now have an unimpeded space in my backplane.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehume*


One thing adridu's testing makes clear: even vented slot covers are an impediment to airflow.

I knw this is asking a lot, but could you do a test that compares airflow with slot covers on and with all unused slot covers removed?

*In my own case I removed not only the slot covers but the metal strips - they look like pillars - between the slots. I now have an unimpeded space in my backplane*.


That is brilliant! I stole the vented slot covers off an Antec 902. but that is brilliant to remove the piler's and not even use the vented slots at all


----------



## ehume

Got rid of those with a Klein nibbler. I'm looking at getting rid of the other pillars. I don't think I need them at all.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

LOL, have you ever thought about just having a tech bench?


----------



## chinesethunda

see i am tempted to remove the pillars, but idk if i would change things around, so i might need them, but they don't really impede my airflow


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing;14883993*
> LOL, have you ever thought about just having a tech bench?


Like this one?










Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14884096*
> see i am tempted to remove the pillars, but idk if i would change things around, so i might need them, but they don't really impede my airflow


I think the HAF X vid shows that they probably do.


----------



## chinesethunda

hmm i guess its just hard to imagine how such small pillars can impede air flow. I guess when I am more settled with a build I'll cut those, but first I want my rear grill gone


----------



## Rhizo

Did anybody end up getting an Azza case? My top fans gave out. Not that they moved much air, but I'm highly considering water cooling if I cant find a replacement.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14886675*
> hmm i guess its just hard to imagine how such small pillars can impede air flow. I guess when I am more settled with a build I'll cut those, but first I want my rear grill gone


Compare the width of the pillars to the width of the slots themselves. Also: an obstruction sets up flow interference larger than it is. Somewhere I have seen a comparison of grills. The comparison points out that round obstructions like wires allow a more streamlined obstruction that allows air to pass around it more easily. Square obstructions like cut grills (and slot pillars, for that matter) cause a lot of interference with airflow.

From all of this I conclude that pillars need to go. If we need finger guards there, the wire kind would allow freer airflow.


----------



## chinesethunda

hmm, good point. But I guess if I had SLI gtx460s it would be more essential to remove them? as there will already be less airflow


----------



## ehume

don't know. But I did remove the rest of my pillars:










To do it without putting metal chips into my case, I removed my hard drives, which are not fastened. I then put the case, backplane down, on an ancient Black & Decker Workmate:










Using a Klein Nibbler Tool I came up from below and quickly clipped the pillars off.

That part was quick. But I also took the occasion to swap some fans around, messed with PSU cables, explored the fan control software to my mb, and in general played in my toybox worked on my computer. A pleasant morning.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehume*


One thing adridu's testing makes clear: even vented slot covers are an impediment to airflow.

I knw this is asking a lot, but could you do a test that compares airflow with slot covers on and with all unused slot covers removed?


Are you talking to me ?









I didn't do this video, it was posted by another OCN member a while ago and I found it again on YouTube. But you could ask directly youtube author.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *adridu59*


Are you talking to me ?









I didn't do this video, it was posted by another OCN member a while ago and I found it again on YouTube. But you could ask directly youtube author.










Thanks.


----------



## somebodysb2

You should also get rid of the vet vent area next to the PCI slots.


----------



## ehume

Vet area?


----------



## somebodysb2

vent*


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *somebodysb2;14893883*
> vent*


Ah. I thought about that, and decided that if I ever got a hotter gpu I would want the option of channeling the air past it.

But the option is still open.


----------



## somebodysb2

In addition, try cutting away the area above the rear fan slot.


----------



## chinesethunda

how does that work? if you cut that out. I have a rear top fan slot and it would probably be smart ish to cover it if the rear grill is open. Simply because then only clean air goes in the top front fan


----------



## somebodysb2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;14896980*
> how does that work? if you cut that out. I have a rear top fan slot and it would probably be smart ish to cover it if the rear grill is open. Simply because then only clean air goes in the top front fan


See the transparent/whatever colour your browser is rectangle box thing above rear fan slot:


----------



## chinesethunda

not sure if i see the point in that. Also its different for each case, mine rear grill is already at the top


----------



## solsamurai

Finally was able to finish reconfiguring my airflow this weekend...sadly my OS HDD past away shortly after.







Haven't had a chance to see how the changes impacted temps but based on my m/b's pc health temps I did a MUCH better job applying TIM this time around. I had no idea I had used so much the first time!







Will post pics as soon as the replacement HDD arrives.

Not sure about the TY-140's noise level horizontally at 100%. Seems kinda loud to me vs how they sound vertical. Ehume, you have a TY-140 as horizontal intake right? How do you think it compares to vertical orientation?


----------



## Siegfried262

Hey guys,

A friend of mine just bought the Nzxt Phantom and was wondering what the best airflow configuration would be.

http://www.nzxt.com/new/products/crafted_series/phantom

Maybe the stock 120mm fans on the side (bring in air for the hard drives), a 140mm in the front, and move the stock 200mm top fan to the frontmost position and block off the rear one whilst removing the grill from the rear fan position?

He's going to have a 212+ for the cpu cooler so he won't be able to fit in a side 200mm/230mm side fan.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai;14915602*
> Finally was able to finish reconfiguring my airflow this weekend...sadly my OS HDD past away shortly after.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't had a chance to see how the changes impacted temps but based on my m/b's pc health temps I did a MUCH better job applying TIM this time around. I had no idea I had used so much the first time!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will post pics as soon as the replacement HDD arrives.
> 
> Not sure about the TY-140's noise level horizontally at 100%. Seems kinda loud to me vs how they sound vertical. Ehume, you have a TY-140 as horizontal intake right? How do you think it compares to vertical orientation?


When you hang any fan, it is more likely to transmit vibrations. That's why I use these. It's the most crucial use of vibration isolators IMO.

I thought my P14 was unusably loud in the top intake job. My TY-140 doesn't get quite as loud at max, but because I have it synchronized with my PSU fans I don't hear it even at max.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14917031*
> When you hang any fan, it is more likely to transmit vibrations. That's why I use these. It's the most crucial use of vibration isolators IMO.
> 
> I thought my P14 was unusably loud in the top intake job. My TY-140 doesn't get quite as loud at max, but because I have it synchronized with my PSU fans I don't hear it even at max.


How were you able to synchronize your TY-140 with your PSU fans?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002;14917127*
> How were you able to synchronize your TY-140 with your PSU fans?


Akasa PWM splitter.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14917031*
> When you hang any fan, it is more likely to transmit vibrations. That's why I use these. It's the most crucial use of vibration isolators IMO.
> 
> I thought my P14 was unusably loud in the top intake job. My TY-140 doesn't get quite as loud at max, but because I have it synchronized with my PSU fans I don't hear it even at max.


It's used as a top front intake and not mounted with any screws. I used 3M clear heavy duty mounting tape to hold it in place. I had to do this because it's a 140mm fan mount with no room for any kind of adapters when the top panel is on. I'm thinking about trying some really thin rubber pieces in between the fan and case metal...the noise sounds like it's maybe turbulence related to the top panel vents as it's much quieter when the top panel is off.

I'm using the above splitter and it works great! Ended up being the perfect length for the job.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14917186*
> Akasa PWM splitter.


With *PSU* fans?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai;14917275*
> It's used as a top front intake and not mounted with any screws. I used 3M clear heavy duty mounting tape to hold it in place. I had to do this because it's a 140mm fan mount with no room for any kind of adapters when the top panel is on. I'm thinking about trying some really thin rubber pieces in between the fan and case metal...the noise sounds like it's maybe turbulence related to the top panel vents as it's much quieter when the top panel is off.
> 
> I'm using the above splitter and it works great! Ended up being the perfect length for the job.


I read in Google that using the TY-140 as an case intake (where there are grills) would make it noisy, is this true? Here's the link: http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=60968


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai;14917275*
> It's used as a top front intake and not mounted with any screws. I used 3M clear heavy duty mounting tape to hold it in place. I had to do this because it's a 140mm fan mount with no room for any kind of adapters when the top panel is on. I'm thinking about trying some really thin rubber pieces in between the fan and case metal...the noise sounds like it's maybe turbulence related to the top panel vents as it's much quieter when the top panel is off.
> 
> I'm using the above splitter and it works great! Ended up being the perfect length for the job.


An adapter for 120-to-140mm fan screw holes here. Another OCNer uses these.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002;14917421*
> With *PSU* fans?
> 
> I read in Google that using the TY-140 as an case intake (where there are grills) would make it noisy, is this true? Here's the link: http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=60968


PWM fans get their power from PSU, control from mb.

As for that post - many fans have that same issue. You need to put a little space between the fan and the grill.


----------



## a pet rock

Not to mention the guy at silent pc is incredibly nitpicky when it comes to noise. Big surprise there given the site's name.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002;14917421*
> With *PSU* fans?
> 
> I'm pretty sure he means the CPU cooler fans. That's what I did. All three TY-140s are PWM from m/b.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I read in Google that using the TY-140 as an case intake (where there are grills) would make it noisy, is this true? Here's the link: http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=60968


SPCR is an excellent site and I trust their findings. They are all about silent pc so when they say it's noisier to me its not anything crazy (in reference to the ty-140). My top panel does not have any mesh but rather vent slots running down the length of the case. If you google image search "PC-K62 top panel" and scroll down a bit there are some closer pics for reference. I think this may have something to do with why it's nosier with the top panel on and again i'm only referring to when the fan is operating at 100%.

ehume, so the screw holes for the filter mesh (which I would remove) are 120mm? They look like they're a different screw size...


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14917526*
> An adapter for 120-to-140mm fan screw holes here. Another OCNer uses these.
> 
> PWM fans get their power from PSU, control from mb.
> 
> As for that post - many fans have that same issue. You need to put a little space between the fan and the grill.


In that way, can the PWM fan be controlled by the MB to be synchronized with the speed of the PSU fan? Also, why do you synchronize it with the PSU fan, where is your TY-140 located?

Would the rubber noise screws be enough for that little space needed between the fan and the grill?


----------



## chinesethunda

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Siegfried262;14916485*
> Hey guys,
> 
> A friend of mine just bought the Nzxt Phantom and was wondering what the best airflow configuration would be
> 
> Maybe the stock 120mm fans on the side (bring in air for the hard drives), a 140mm in the front, and move the stock 200mm top fan to the frontmost position and block off the rear one whilst removing the grill from the rear fan position?
> 
> He's going to have a 212+ for the cpu cooler so he won't be able to fit in a side 200mm/230mm side fan.


Here is how I do my phantom. I will be modding it a bit in the later future perhaps, but at the moment it works well for me.

front 140mm fan intake
2x side 120mm cm r4
1x side 200mm nzxt fan. (mounted on the outside, I have a 212+ also)
1x 120mm cm r4 in the 5.25" drive bay area
1x top front 200mm nzxt intake
1x rear top 200mm nzxt exhaust
1x rear 120mm cm r4 exhaust
1x 120mm fan behind the hdd cages to push air to the GPU


----------



## Siegfried262

Very cool, how are your temps like that compared to the default setup?

Is it hard to mount the 200m on the side or do you just screw it in from the other side?


----------



## chinesethunda

yup, i took off the side mesh and just mounted it on the outside. I swapped the stock rear cooler for the non LED version because it is faster and then put the LED one on the side. so my side fan lights up from the controller. the temps are much better than stock. I could do without half my fans, and it would be quieter too, but I like having some color lol


----------



## Chocosuke

I have a CM storm sniper. For the longest time I've had my CPU Cooler facing my GPU with my top fan as exhaust. Finally switched my CPU cooler so that it exhausts into the rear fan, and switched the top fan to intake. I think* I've dropped temps at least by 2C, possibly more. Thanks for the info!


----------



## kevindd992002

Bump!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14917526*
> An adapter for 120-to-140mm fan screw holes here. Another OCNer uses these.
> 
> PWM fans get their power from PSU, control from mb.
> 
> As for that post - many fans have that same issue. You need to put a little space between the fan and the grill.


In that way, can the PWM fan be controlled by the MB to be synchronized with the speed of the PSU fan? Also, why do you synchronize it with the PSU fan, where is your TY-140 located?

Would the rubber noise screws be enough for that little space needed between the fan and the grill?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002;14989381*
> Bump!
> 
> In that way, can the PWM fan be controlled by the MB to be synchronized with the speed of the PSU fan? Also, why do you synchronize it with the PSU fan, where is your TY-140 located?
> 
> Would the rubber noise screws be enough for that little space needed between the fan and the grill?


Power comes from the PSU. The speed control can come from a header dedicated to chassis fan speed control, but most would plug the PWM fans into the cpu fan header. This is what I do: two heatsink fans and one intake fan get their PWM control from the cpu header. Their 12v and gnd come from the psu.

Usually rubber noise isolators ("rubber screws" or "rubber nails") provide enough standoff to keep fan blades from scraping grills. Usually.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;14995181*
> Power comes from the PSU. The speed control can come from a header dedicated to chassis fan speed control, but most would plug the PWM fans into the cpu fan header. This is what I do: two heatsink fans and one intake fan get their PWM control from the cpu header. Their 12v and gnd come from the psu.
> 
> Usually rubber noise isolators ("rubber screws" or "rubber nails") provide enough standoff to keep fan blades from scraping grills. Usually.


Ok, I got it now. I misunderstood you when you said you "synchronized" your PWM fans to the PSU, I thought you meant you synchronized your PWM fans with the speed of the PSU fans.


----------



## solsamurai

Here's a preview of part of the new airflow configuration I mentioned A couple weeks ago. My OS HDD died last weekend so haven't been able to upload any pics off my DSLR as they were shot in RAW. Will convert and upload as soon as I get everything up an running later this week.


----------



## Velathawen

Have you looked into replacing the stock Lian-Li fans that came with the K62? I love how quiet the stock fans are, but I'm wondering if I could squeeze a bit more airflow out if I looked into some replacements. I read in the K62 thread that the stock fans are actually rebranded Yates that can do up to 51CFM.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Velathawen;15013789*
> Have you looked into replacing the stock Lian-Li fans that came with the K62? I love how quiet the stock fans are, but I'm wondering if I could squeeze a bit more airflow out if I looked into some replacements. I read in the K62 thread that the stock fans are actually rebranded Yates that can do up to 51CFM.


Yep. I'm actually goin to try slowing down that fan. I remove the front panel last night and noticed air was flowing out of the 5.25 bay.







that's with a 1300 rpm noctua in there. Also removing the back pci vented slot covers to see what that does. And yes, I would like to replace stock fans with more efficient ones but won't have any rig $$$ for awhile.









The journey continues...

*UPDATE:* I'm thinking about moving the TY-140 from the top intake to either the drive bay or behind the HDD cage. With the top panel on it's really noisy, but when I remove it everything noticeably quiets down. I may even try replacing the front 120 intake with it. I know the TY-140 is not touching the top panel and may try something like this or one of these to see if that helps. Kinda bummed at this point after spending the $$$ to get everything and have this issue.


----------



## Siegfried262

Hey guys! After lots of looking through this thread I decided I wanted a case that would exemplify the cooling concepts embodied in the thread and here's my plan. I bought a Nzxt Source 210 Elite










Three AP-14s intaking in the front.
One Nzxt 120mm intaking from the bottom
One Nzxt 140mm intaking from the front top
One Scythe Kaze Maru 2 800mm intaking from the side

And the exhaust being served by my 212+ with two AP-14s. I also plan on removing the PCI vent covers. My card is a Gigabyte 560ti which vents some of it's heat back into the case.

The bottom/lower front/side intake will (I think) not only help bring fresh air into the graphics card but the positive pressure will force any air exhausted back into the case from the card out the back. Currently my graphics card runs warmer than it should because the negative pressure keeps warm air in the case. The top and top front intake will bring fresh air directly to my 212+.

What do you guys think?

Plans for the future

-Replacing the bottom fan with a 900rpm Kama Flow 2 fan, one T.B Silence 140 for the front top. 
-Soft-mounting all of the fans with Nexus Fan mounts.
-Cutting out the grills for the rear and front fans.
-Getting some basic sound dampening foam. (Not so much for sound dampening but it'll be an attractive way to dampen any vibrations from my hard drives and a good way to cover the rear top slot)
-Making sure the intakes are filtered.

Thanks for any insight or advice!


----------



## ehume

Remove your PCIE slot covers.


----------



## solsamurai

Hey ehume, what do you suggest I do about the airflow issues noted in the update to my above post?







Temps aren't bad just want to get the air flowing correctly.


----------



## chinesethunda

well if it is close to another fan than it might be interfering with the airflow. is there a picture? i was slightly confused about your description


----------



## solsamurai

Sorry my OS HDD died shortly after I installed the new side panel and top intake. So haven't been able to post pics 'til now.







Here's what I have and will post some pics tomorrow.

Front panel intake top 120mm @ 1300 rpm
Front panel intake bottom 140mm @ 1000 rpm
Top front intake TY-140 @ 1300 rpm (having issues with m/b PWM function)
Back top slot blocked
Silver Arrow with 2x TY-140 in push/pull @ 1300 rpm
Side panel with botton intake 140mm @ 1000 rpm
Rear 120 slot open with no fan
Rear PCI slot covers removed

So what's currently happening is when I remove the front panel i can feel air flowing out from around the sides of the front intake top 120mm (mounted with zipties).

EDIT: Here's a pic of the side panel. Sorry again for the lack of pics until tomorrow.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *solsamurai*


*UPDATE:* I'm thinking about moving the TY-140 from the top intake to either the drive bay or behind the HDD cage. With the top panel on it's really noisy, but when I remove it everything noticeably quiets down. I may even try replacing the front 120 intake with it. I know the TY-140 is not touching the top panel and may try something like this or one of these to see if that helps. Kinda bummed at this point after spending the $$$ to get everything and have this issue.










I suspend my top intake fan (a TY-140) with these.


----------



## solsamurai

I would try that but it's a 140mm fan slot so nothing would line up with the TY-140's screw holes.







I have only a few mm's from the top of the fan to the top panel itself. I cut up these really cheap rubber coasters I had for make shift vibration isolaters but it made the fan too tall. I'm hoping something like the links posted above will do the trick.

Will try to post pictures tomorrow to better illustrate the situation. I also may try moving the TY-140 to the front top intake slot and place an unused stock 140mm back in the top panel front intake. Lol, now I'm getting confused.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *solsamurai*


I would try that but it's a 140mm fan slot so nothing would line up with the TY-140's screw holes.







I have only a few mm's from the top of the fan to the top panel itself. I cut up these really cheap rubber coasters I had for make shift vibration isolaters but it made the fan too tall. I'm hoping something like the links posted above will do the trick.

Will try to post pictures tomorrow to better illustrate the situation. I also may try moving the TY-140 to the front top intake slot and place an unused stock 140mm back in the top panel front intake. Lol, now I'm getting confused.










Hmm. I'm thinking Erector Set:










Or a mending plate:










Or Get a solid piece of metal and drill your own holes.

I'm thinking four of them, attached to the 140mm corners of the K62, extending into the open space in the middle. Hang the TY-140 from those.


----------



## solsamurai

I know where to get small, custom pieces of acryllic that may be easier to drill through. Would be a little easier to clean up. I live in an apartment and can't drill something like metal.







Those mending plates look interesting though. If I can find the right size they would be perfect. Thanks for the suggestions ehume!


----------



## ehume

I used to drill metal when I lived in apartments.

But those were $40/month and $55/month places.


----------



## solsamurai

Where was that?! Lol, hopefully I can try something tomorrow.


----------



## chinesethunda

im thinking about buying a drill from amazon and start modding my old case, just to get the feel of modding my case before i start modding my real case.

imo you just need a fan on the top to pull air in, you don't need a really good fan because you want just enough air to be fresh but not too much air to push past the cooler and not get sucked in to cool your heat sink


----------



## ehume

If you have never bought a drill . . . oh wait. I was going to tell you to be sure to buy metal cutting drills. But they're all that way now.

Anyway, if you have never used a drill, be sure to practice on a piece of wood.


----------



## chinesethunda

i'v used drills before, i just don't own one right now because it's at home. anyways i just needed to cut a hole so i can start nibbling


----------



## solsamurai

Lol, found a rather odd temp fix for the noise problem of the top intake TY-140. Will post pics soon...

EDIT: Ok so here's what I did to stop the noise...



It's a divider from a CD/DVD bookshelf. Placing it over the top panel vents in the spot shown stops the most annoying tones. Now all I hear is the air moving.







Good enough for now. Here's the TY-140 mounted with 3M Heavy Duty mounting tape and my super-ghetto rear vent cover.


----------



## chinesethunda

looks pretty good. good job


----------



## Bit_reaper

Quote:



Originally Posted by *solsamurai*


Lol, found a rather odd temp fix for the noise problem of the top intake TY-140. Will post pics soon...

EDIT: Ok so here's what I did to stop the noise...



It's a divider from a CD/DVD bookshelf. Placing it over the top panel vents in the spot shown stops the most annoying tones. Now all I hear is the air moving.







Good enough for now. Here's the TY-140 mounted with 3M Heavy Duty mounting tape and my super-ghetto rear vent cover.












Lol. I'm finding my self using that stuff more and more to. Guess I'm getting to lazy to drill holes and put in screws


----------



## adridu59

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*


looks pretty good. good job


Fixed.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Bit_reaper*


Lol. I'm finding my self using that stuff more and more to. Guess I'm getting to lazy to drill holes and put in screws










I would if I could...


Quote:



Originally Posted by *adridu59*


Fixed.










Looks ok, lol.


----------



## a pet rock

Have you thought about trying an adapter? I've got the same case, and I figured I'd just stick to 140mm fans.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock;15062505*
> Have you thought about trying an adapter? I've got the same case, and I figured I'd just stick to 140mm fans.


I've looked into them, but they all are too tall and would cause the fan to touch the top panel which creates worse vibration noise.







I really don't have more than 2-4mm of room when the top panel is on. I know it looks silly but my current remedy is good enough for now. Please let me know if you find a really skinny adapter!


----------



## chinesethunda

so if i understand correctly, the top of your fan vibrates the top of the case? why not try putting something like foam or silly putty, or sticky tak between the case and the fan? holds it and reduces vibrations


----------



## confed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;15067374*
> so if i understand correctly, the top of your fan vibrates the top of the case? why not try putting something like foam or silly putty, or sticky tak between the case and the fan? holds it and reduces vibrations


i was thinking zipties and foam when i was looking at his picture.


----------



## chinesethunda

well zipties can be difficult at times and sometimes still allow vibrations, foam and silly putty and velcro are best options imo


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;15067374*
> so if i understand correctly, the top of your fan vibrates the top of the case? why not try putting something like foam or silly putty, or sticky tak between the case and the fan? holds it and reduces vibrations


Been looking into that as stated in the UPDATE portion of this previous post. The fan is not touching the top panel but when it's on everything about the fan is louder without that piece of wood on there. This must be the fan vibrations on the case as you guys have said. Thanks for all the suggestions! Will give 'em a shot once I have some extra funds for my rig.


----------



## xt486

Ehume, thanks for the insight and the positive remarks on the HAF-X. I want to pass my build to you for your expert opinion. I have 2x200mm exhaust on the top of the case, 1x200mm intake in the front, 1x200mm intake in the side panel, 1x 140mm intake at the rear of case, I have a NH-D14 with standard fans. two questions: I cannot hear the CPU fans build up speed when under load, & what configuration must the D14's be?? Push or pull, (I have an H70 as well and thought the D14 would work better) My Haf-X thinks it is a Hoover!!
Thanks XT486...


----------



## ehume

solsamurai: I finally realize where the top fans of a K62 go. Since a TY-140 is 160x140mm, you can simply lay it on top of the metal part of the case. Try various cushions. There is a foam thing that has sticky on both sides. Stuff like that.

xt486: A D14 has a front 120mm push fan and a 140mm center fan. Normally it points its airflow toward the back of the case, or upward. Which are you using?


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;15077145*
> solsamurai: I finally realize where the top fans of a K62 go. Since a TY-140 is 160x140mm, you can simply lay it on top of the metal part of the case. Try various cushions. There is a foam thing that has sticky on both sides. Stuff like that.


Yeah it's a pain to install fans with 120mm holes. Per the pic I posted on page 41 you can see I don't have alot to work with.







Double-sided foam is the next solution I'm going to try. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## ihatelolcats

this is what i'm thinking for my antec 300 case:








big arrow is 120mm+, small is 80mm, blue is intake, white is passive out, black is internal fan (the big blue crossed circle is side panel intake)

i do run my fans at lower rpm to reduce noise, so my airflow may not be as high as it would appear.
my heatsink (black rounded rectangle)is a little weird because it faces up instead of toward the back.
the arrows with question marks are places where i could cut holes in my case to mount more fans. also, i could put an intake fan where the passive exhaust at the back is. is it worth it do either? what do you suggest?

edit: post 420


----------



## ehume

Don't cut your case to make new fan holes. Been there, done that. Don't do it. Instead buy the right case.

In a case with two top fan positions, either make them both intake or both exhaust, or block one. Don't make one intake and on exhaust - unless you test your temps and the in/out arrangements works better for you.


----------



## ihatelolcats

thanks for fast reply
and well...i've already cut one big hole in the case for the power supply setup. 
but it's clear to me now that having a top intake wouldn't be smart since it would suck hot air back in.
considering the direction of my cpu heatsink, should i block the back and leave only the top open? it's a 140mm hole there


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ihatelolcats*


thanks for fast reply
and well...i've already cut one big hole in the case for the power supply setup. 
but it's clear to me now that having a top intake wouldn't be smart since it would suck hot air back in.
considering the direction of my cpu heatsink, should i block the back and leave only the top open? it's a 140mm hole there


I use a top intake. I prefer them. The only problem would come if you paired it with a top exhaust.

As for your case - forgive me, but it represents what I see wrong with Antec cases. They basically leave you in the situation of the Antec way or the highway. As long as you're using that case, have the top and back fans set to exhaust as Antec designed them to do.


----------



## ihatelolcats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;15080158*
> I use a top intake. I prefer them. The only problem would come if you paired it with a top exhaust.
> 
> As for your case - forgive me, but it represents what I see wrong with Antec cases. They basically leave you in the situation of the Antec way or the highway. As long as you're using that case, have the top and back fans set to exhaust as Antec designed them to do.


right, but my heatsink i have doesn't allow for top intake really. kind of crummy but hindsight is 20/20 as they say.
i'm really tempted to move the top fan to a hole cut in the bottom. i'm installing a new motherboard this week, i'll try different fan configurations and report back if i find anything interesting
thanks for the advice


----------



## kevindd992002

Here's my rig:










What can you guys comment about it?


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*


Here's my rig:










What can you guys comment about it?


You cut out the rear grill and have no exhaust fan to make noise. Your bottom intake and mid-case fans are TY-140's. It looks like your top 200mm fan is set to intake. I'd say you have a quiet rig that ought to cool pretty well.

Do you have a side panel intake fan blowing on your gpu's? You have left the unused slots open to let air escape there.


----------



## kevindd992002

Followed exactly the advices I read in this thread, thanks ehume







For the mid-case fan though, is its position ok already or is it too low that it would blow air to the face of the PSU?

I still need to buy a Xigmatek 200mm Crystal Series for my side intake fan because the CM 200mm fans don't fit there with the SA in place (they're 30mm in width). Other than that, I think everything is set









Oh btw, I also use a TY140 in my 5.25" front bay suspended by zipties and powered by a CPU PWM signal. I have to take a pic of that.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*


Followed exactly the advices I read in this thread, thanks ehume







For the mid-case fan though, is its position ok already or is it too low that it would blow air to the face of the PSU?

I still need to buy a Xigmatek 200mm Crystal Series for my side intake fan because the CM 200mm fans don't fit there with the SA in place (they're 30mm in width). Other than that, I think everything is set









Oh btw, I also use a TY140 in my 5.25" front bay suspended by zipties and powered by a CPU PWM signal. I have to take a pic of that.


Outstanding. As for the position of the mid-case fan, I'd look at your HD temps and your gpu temps with the fan where it is, then move the fan up to the top of the HD cage and measure again. That will tell you where you want that fan. And of course you will share the results with us so we will all know.

BTW - your rig is clean-looking. Wiring is as out-of-the-way as possible. Nice.


----------



## chinesethunda

I cut out my rear grill finally, moving on to water cooling now haha. I also cut out the grill in the bottom of my case where the PSU intake is. I have a air filter there so I thought that a filter and a grill is too much air restriction so I cut that part out.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002;15234685*
> I still need to buy a Xigmatek 200mm Crystal Series for my side intake fan


These don't move much air... my


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;15235733*
> Outstanding. As for the position of the mid-case fan, I'd look at your HD temps and your gpu temps with the fan where it is, then move the fan up to the top of the HD cage and measure again. That will tell you where you want that fan. And of course you will share the results with us so we will all know.
> 
> BTW - your rig is clean-looking. Wiring is as out-of-the-way as possible. Nice.


Thanks for the compliments









I'll try to move to experiment with my mid-case fan then. The thing is with or without the mid0case fan, my GPU temps seems to be the same? HD temps are in the low 30's for both cases though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59;15237822*
> These don't move much air... my


But I don't have any choice since they're the only 20mm 200mm fans available?


----------



## adridu59

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*


But I don't have any choice since they're the only 20mm 200mm fans available?










Yeah obviously a 200x20 fan can't move much air due to its size restriction...


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:



Originally Posted by *adridu59*


Yeah obviously a 200x20 fan can't move much air due to its size restriction...


So any other suggestions?


----------



## adridu59

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*


So any other suggestions?


Dunno... get the crystal it will perform ~70 CFM so just like a good 120/140mm, but quieter. For comparaison the Cooler Master Megaflow pushes 170 CFM (specs says 110 CFM but that's wrong).

He's the proof :









...


----------



## eyesmiles

This thread has been a very interesting and informative read. It's helping me with an argument me and a friend had with regards to negative and positive pressure. Anyways, I'll be getting a Corsair 500r (uncle wants my CM Scout but won't pay full price for one >.>) soon and was planning to do a set up similar to ehume's diagram. I wasn't sure if this was clarified or not, was searching through the pages, but for the 140mm fan thats set to intake towards the top of the case to let fresh air in for the cpu cooler, is there a certain rpm that fan should be? I have a spare 135mm Kama Flex 1600rpm that I was planning on putting there. My initial plan was to put a GT AP-15 in the 5.25 bays since I only have a blu ray drive. Would the Kama Flex be too much or should I grab a different fan?


----------



## a pet rock

I don't believe the power of that fan matters. It's all going to push air from the front of the case out the back. Use what gives you best temps/noise.


----------



## eyesmiles

Thanks the quick response =). I guess I'm just over thinking things since it's all just speculation until I get the case. I'll stick with the Kama Flex for now then grab a different fan if ever.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:



Originally Posted by *eyesmiles*


This thread has been a very interesting and informative read. It's helping me with an argument me and a friend had with regards to negative and positive pressure. Anyways, I'll be getting a Corsair 500r (uncle wants my CM Scout but won't pay full price for one >.>) soon and was planning to do a set up similar to ehume's diagram. I wasn't sure if this was clarified or not, was searching through the pages, but for the 140mm fan thats *set to intake towards the top of the case to let fresh air in for the cpu cooler,* is there a certain rpm that fan should be? I have a spare 135mm Kama Flex 1600rpm that I was planning on putting there. My initial plan was to put a GT AP-15 in the 5.25 bays since I only have a blu ray drive. Would the Kama Flex be too much or should I grab a different fan?


Can you please clarify which fan are you pertaining to?


----------



## eyesmiles

The fan on the top towards the front. I believe in ehume's diagram on the first page, it's the position where his pwm TY-140 is placed on top towards the front of the case.


----------



## chinesethunda

in my experience the power of the case fans are relatively irrelevant once they are over a certain cfm. you want cool air in, blowing them too hard especially in the top front intake would defeat the purpose as you want the heat sink fan to be able to have a chance to intake it


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *eyesmiles*


The fan on the top towards the front. I believe in ehume's diagram on the first page, it's the position where his pwm TY-140 is placed on top towards the front of the case.


That fan is hooked up to a pwm harness in my rig. At idle it moves at a few hundred rpm. At full load it approaches its full speed. Unfortunately this accursed As.s board does not have enough rpm readouts to cover that fan's speed, so I don't know exactly how fast it goes.

In general I'd say that your forward top intake and your upper front intake (in the 5.25 bay) should not be louder than you are comfortable with. I have the TY-140 in forward top intake, and a 140mm Shark on 5v in upper front intake. Quietude on idle.


----------



## eyesmiles

Awesome! Thank you for the replies. The kama flex is tolerable in my current case as the top intake. I swapped the stock fan on my evga cpu cooler, which was irritatingly loud and had a red glow, to a Delta pwm, which is surprisingly quieter than the flashy fan it came with. I'll play around with things once I get the 500r.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:



Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*


in my experience the power of the case fans are relatively irrelevant once they are over a certain cfm. you want cool air in, blowing them too hard especially in the top front intake would defeat the purpose as you want the heat sink fan to be able to have a chance to intake it


Is a 1000RPM Force 200mm fan as top intake too powerful compared to using the 700RPM Megaflow 200mm for the same purpose?


----------



## chinesethunda

its not too powerful, it should be just fine i think since its bigger it moves more air but slower, so you should be fine at that speed. the bigger fans are okay, its the smaller faster fans i was referring to


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;15377038*
> its not too powerful, it should be just fine i think since its bigger it moves more air but slower, so you should be fine at that speed. the bigger fans are okay, its the smaller faster fans i was referring to


Oh ok but if you were to pick which between the Megaflow and Force would you be choosing? And why?


----------



## Siegfried262

I think you're going to be fine either way and won't see a massive difference.

I'd go with the Megaflow personally, 700rpm is more than enough for a fan of that size.


----------



## kevindd992002

I do have the Force 200 as spare though. Wouldn't hurt CPU temps to use that, right?


----------



## chinesethunda

id use the force because 1k rpm isnt that forceful on the air so i probably would use that. I have 3 200mm nzxt fans and if i recall those have one of the higher cfms for 200mm fans


----------



## kevindd992002

Great.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda;15378469*
> id use the force because 1k rpm isnt that forceful on the air so i probably would use that. I have 3 200mm nzxt fans and if i recall those have one of the higher cfms for 200mm fans


1000 rpm with a 200mm fan! Are you really sure you're not trying to recreate Hurricane Irene?


----------



## Celoth

Inspired by this thread, I am going to do this setup on my Corsair 650D:










The case will be lined everywhere with Cooltek 12mm two-layer (bitumen/foam) noise dampening mats, except for the designated intakes and exhausts. I know it can increase temperatures a little, but I like the way it changes the sound-scape in my current PC to a more pleasant white noise that fades into the background.

Intakes will only be covered with dust filters, aside from a 120mm wire grill on the top intake for protection. I'll be cutting all metal grills off at intakes and exhausts.

By sectioning off the bottom I'll direct the airflow from the Megaflow more directly to the GPUs, on top of the sound dampening effect. The AX850 PSU is awesome and runs it own little air-loop anyway.

I think I've found a way to make the 5.25" bay intake decent with a combination of some 2mm bitumen pads and the two-layer noise dampening mats. The only HDD I need inside the case is an SSD I'll place behind this intake fan.

I am aiming for a quiet (by SPCR standards, so near silent for this forum







) case + cpu-cooler setup (overclocked i5-2500K). Haven't decided on GPUs yet, and might start with only one until the new cards from Nvidia and AMD are out, but they will likely be the noisiest parts in the case.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Celoth;15387047*
> Inspired by this thread, I am going to do this setup on my Corsair 650D:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wire grill on the top intake for protection. I'll be cutting all metal grills off at intakes and exhausts.
> 
> By sectioning off the bottom I'll direct the airflow from the Megaflow more directly to the GPUs, on top of the sound dampening effect. The AX850 PSU is awesome and runs it own little air-loop anyway.
> 
> I think I've found a way to make the 5.25" bay intake decent with a combination of some 2mm bitumen pads and the two-layer noise dampening mats. The only HDD I need inside the case is an SSD I'll place behind this intake fan.
> 
> I am aiming for a quiet (by SPCR standards, so near silent for this forum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) case + cpu-cooler setup (overclocked i5-2500K). Haven't decided on GPUs yet, and might start with only one until the new cards from Nvidia and AMD are out, but they will likely be the noisiest parts in the case.


Nice! I'm _very_ interested in how this works out as I plan on getting the 650D as well. If you can post pics of your process or make a build log?







Pretty please! Lol...

If you haven't already check out the 650D thread.


----------



## Celoth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai;15387117*
> Nice! I'm _very_ interested in how this works out as I plan on getting the 650D as well. If you can post pics of your process or make a build log?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pretty please! Lol...
> 
> If you haven't already check out the 650D thread.


There will be a build log.









I am still in the early stages. Cutting the foam to fit all the nooks and crannies takes quite a few hours actually, including measuring and planning how to best block sound without hindering any airflow. Been doing it an hour here and there over a few days now.

I am also waiting for some parts not out in stores yet, but I can get most of the case ready with what I have.


----------



## solsamurai

Looking forward to it!


----------



## 161029

Quick question, is the PC-9F good? The single 140mm top intake seems to be fine from what ehume's saying. A recommendation would be great too.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;15386328*
> 1000 rpm with a 200mm fan! Are you really sure you're not trying to recreate Hurricane Irene?


Is that good or bad?

Lol, the name of my girlfriend is Irene


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Celoth;15387047*


This looks great. Since you have partitioned the bottom from the rest of your main plenum, you might try a second partition between the HD/GPU space and the CPU space. I don't know if it would make any difference with your temps, but it's something I'm thinking of trying.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore;15387491*
> Quick question, is the PC-9F good? The single 140mm top intake seems to be fine from what ehume's saying. A recommendation would be great too.


I don't see a top intake on that case. I see a provision for a top exhaust, but no top intake.


----------



## Celoth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;15387716*
> This looks great. Since you have partitioned the bottom from the rest of your main plenum, you might try a second partition between the HD/GPU space and the CPU space. I don't know if it would make any difference with your temps, but it's something I'm thinking of trying.


Yep good idea to at least try it.







I should have some of the 2mm bitumen pads left over once I am done. Can probably do it with that.


----------



## 161029

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehume*


I don't see a top intake on that case. I see a provision for a top exhaust, but no top intake.


I could get one of these.


----------



## cre3d

Critique? I think this is the about as good as it gets with this case/hardware combo..


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehume*


I don't see a top intake on that case. I see a provision for a top exhaust, but no top intake.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *HybridCore*


I could get one of these.


The problem I see is that the case does not provide a fan opening far enough forward to be any good for intake.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *cre3d*


Critique? I think this is the about as good as it gets with this case/hardware combo..




















Borgemoi!


----------



## 161029

Beautiful. I've never seen such a beautiful Antec 300.

Edit: Between the PC-9F and PC-90, which one should I get?


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hybridcore;15407048*
> beautiful. I've never seen such a beautiful antec 300.
> 
> Edit: Between the pc-9f and pc-90, which one should i get?


90.


----------



## 161029

90's in my favor because of the 140mm fans but will the top mount PSU be okay since it has to have the fan facing down. Will the PSU get hot because of my heatsink?


----------



## cre3d

Re-did the cabling today since I was installing the new AX850 PSU. Took a few hours, came out rather well I think. Unfortunately the PSU has a nasty cap whine that change pitch/tone/frequency/volume based on various computer operations like scrolling/launching programs/etc. Started googling around and it seems there are countless people with the same issue... Does anyone have an AX850 that's silent? I can't stand anything other than the sound of fan airflow









Updated pics:


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cre3d;15417385*
> Does anyone have an AX850 that's silent?


I suggest you to try Be Quiet! PSUs. They're just the best.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore;15409614*
> 90's in my favor because of the 140mm fans but will the top mount PSU be okay since it has to have the fan facing down. Will the PSU get hot because of my heatsink?


Should be fine I think.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59;15417506*
> Should be fine I think.


Okay. Good. Anybody else?


----------



## ehume

If you're buying a psu, consider reading reviews before you do anything. I like JonnyGURU and [H]ardOCP, but there are some fairly sophisticated reviewers out there - you can tell from the reviews.

But before you do that, contact Corsair. The problem may be with a single component. It may represent a defect. I've read a few reviews on your psu and I never saw any mention of electronic noises. Maybe you can RMA it. Never hurts to find out.


----------



## cre3d

Threw in the Coolermaster Silent Pro Gold 1000W I had laying here, dead silent. Not a single noise, identical configuration. The AX850 is considerably more aesthetic and I definitely had a much easier time working with it's modular cabling so I'll give it one or two RMA's before I give up on it. The AX850 has much better ripple control than this CMSPG1000 according to reviews, but I can't live with that noise, it was driving me insane after only a day.


----------



## ekko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume;13870379*
> 
> Op first post quote hehehehe


i know a havent been around in a long while..but ya know how it is, after reading this thread i took your advise i had a 6c drop...heres the youtube video ehume







thanks buddy!!

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv9Jd8fJDmQ[/ame]


----------



## 161029

Epic quote. Next time, remove all of the pictures or remove all but one and maybe some text. We don't want to take 5 minutes to scroll down all the way every time we visit this page.


----------



## ekko

Quote:



Originally Posted by *HybridCore*


Epic quote. Next time, remove all of the pictures or remove all but one and maybe some text. We don't want to take 5 minutes to scroll down all the way every time we visit this page.


It was like a wall of text so I decided to remove all! I'm glad ya like it! I'm going to work more on the bullet 'Upper' holes today


----------



## adridu59

Wow what did you do with the upper holes ?


----------



## ekko

The upper holes is going to be a bullet storm! It will look awesome when I'm finished! Right now it's kinda ehhh ok! It suppose to look sorta destroyed by bullets on the top! The rest is kinda classy in comparison! So it's like beautiful meets diasaster hehehehe do ya like it?


----------



## ekko

I have anothe top piece of plexi im working on, it has one hole for the exhaust blowing out 120mm scythe ultra kaze will go in there!


----------



## adridu59

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ekko*


The upper holes is going to be a bullet storm! It will look awesome when I'm finished! Right now it's kinda ehhh ok! It suppose to look sorta destroyed by bullets on the top!


lol Ok bro.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ekko;15427842*
> i know a havent been around in a long while..but ya know how it is, after reading this thread i took your advise i had a 6c drop...heres the youtube video ehume
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks buddy!!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv9Jd8fJDmQ


Thanks dude. I love it.

+rep for this: You really show how cooling happens. If case makers made cases the way you made yours, we'd all have cooler cpu's and gpu's.


----------



## ekko

Thank you! I means a lot comming from you ehume! I'm happy you approve ! Thank you for the rep as well !


----------



## adridu59

Hey ekko looking forward to your bullet storm top.


----------



## menjr57

Haf X full tower no better out their for you use.


----------



## salokin

Was wondering if anyone had experience with the Fractal arc midi? It has two top fan spots, but the front one is kindof overlapping my humongous silver arrow heatsink. Currently, they are both exhausting (with pretty decent temps), and I wanted to know if it would make a difference to block off the back and make the front fan spot intake.

Thoughts?


----------



## a pet rock

Definitely try it. I did that when I added a second fan to my front intake and it reduced CPU temps about 5C and GPU temps almost 10C load.

E:/ If it doesn't work out, it's not like it takes a lot of time to .


----------



## salokin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *a pet rock*


Definitely try it. I did that when I added a second fan to my front intake and it reduced CPU temps about 5C and GPU temps almost 10C load.

E:/ If it doesn't work out, it's not like it takes a lot of time to .


Okay quick question: Does your forward top 140mm fan clear your heatsink? I see you have a pretty big heatsink as well, and I thought I read that it'd be better if it cleared the heatsink (which in my case, it won't). And did you block off your back 140mm fan?

Thanks.


----------



## Celoth

I've started on my Corsair 650D - Proper Positive Pressure Project now. Still a work in progress. Here are a few pictures from it. There's more info in the work log, and sorry about the picture quality.

*Top Intake and Rear Exhaust*










*5.25" bay intake*

Without filter









With filter









Front:









Back: If you look closely, you can see a little cut-out in the bottom foam. This is where the SSD goes. I am not gonna have a regular HDD in the case at all.









Front:









Back:









With the filter:









*Bottom Section*


----------



## ehume

Thanks for the teaser. I'm subbing to your build log.

Edit:

And I love your airflow diagram. So pretty:


----------



## adridu59

Ehume, HardwareSecrets just published a review about rear case fans, interesting read.


----------



## solsamurai

I'll take the extra 1-2c hit and leave my rear exhaust without a fan.







My CPU temps are so good atm I really don't see the need for another fan and more noise.


----------



## Celoth

A shame they didn't test this properly and actually removed the fan instead of just turning it off. The fan, when not spinning, is adding a ton of restriction to the airflow. Optimally they should have cut away the rear honeycomb grill as well, and done tests with and without it. I find these results inconclusive, sadly. On the upside, temps are bound to be better in a setup without the fan installed, compared to their numbers with the fan merely turned off.

For a setup like this to work optimally, we need no rear grill and no fan, just an open hole, and probably a positive pressure setup instead of their negative pressure system.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Celoth;15542974*
> A shame they didn't test this properly and actually removed the fan instead of just turning it off. The fan, when not spinning, is adding a ton of restriction to the airflow. Optimally they should have cut away the rear honeycomb grill as well, and done tests with and without it. I find these results inconclusive, sadly. On the upside, temps are bound to be better in a setup without the fan installed, compared to their numbers with the fan merely turned off.
> 
> For a setup like this to work optimally, we need no rear grill and no fan, just an open hole, and probably a positive pressure setup instead of their negative pressure system.


+1 I thought it was odd they left the rear fan on like that.









EDIT: Here's a couple pics of my latest attempts to improve airflow. Moved the top front TY-140 to the ODD bay, new fans in top front intake and in front of HDD cage and removed all the PCI slot covers in the back. Airflow has finally noticeably improved!







I'll be content with this setup for awhile. Still would like to get the 650D but that can wait a little longer. Oh, and the only noise I hear now is the air moving through the fans. A very pleasant sound that blends into the ambient levels of my apartment.


----------



## Celoth

Looks good.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Celoth*


Looks good.










Thanks!







I can't afford even a cheap dremel otherwise that rear grill would be gone as well.


----------



## Volkswagen

ehume- let me know about my setup...I know it's right for the most part just not sure about the side fan- should it be intake or exhaust. At the moment it is intake.

All fans are GT 15's and the rear exhaust is a Slim Sycthe.

Two front intakes, bottom mounted intake and side intake.
Two top exhaust and the slim rear exhaust.

Just not sure what would work best for the side fan since the card throws air out of it and in the case- perhaps exhaust would be better? Then again intake and fresh air prob sounds good as well.


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *adridu59*


Ehume, HardwareSecrets just published a review about rear case fans, interesting read.



Quote:



Originally Posted by *Celoth*


A shame they didn't test this properly and actually removed the fan instead of just turning it off. The fan, when not spinning, is adding a ton of restriction to the airflow. Optimally they should have cut away the rear honeycomb grill as well, and done tests with and without it. I find these results inconclusive, sadly. On the upside, temps are bound to be better in a setup without the fan installed, compared to their numbers with the fan merely turned off.

For a setup like this to work optimally, we need no rear grill and no fan, just an open hole, and probably a positive pressure setup instead of their negative pressure system.


I was thinking the same thing. Actually, since I have felt the direct impact of the cpu heatsink with the grill removed, and remember not feeling the cpu heatsink output when the grill was present, I know that leaving the grill in place makes a big difference. That said, they have proven that if you leave the grill in place, a rear exhaust fan will improve your airflow. That is useful information, if noisy.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *solsamurai*


+1 I thought it was odd they left the rear fan on like that.









EDIT: Here's a couple pics of my latest attempts to improve airflow. Moved the top front TY-140 to the ODD bay, new fans in top front intake and in front of HDD cage and removed all the PCI slot covers in the back. Airflow has finally noticeably improved!







I'll be content with this setup for awhile. Still would like to get the 650D but that can wait a little longer. Oh, and the only noise I hear now is the air moving through the fans. A very pleasant sound that blends into the ambient levels of my apartment.














I love this.

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Volkswagen*


ehume- let me know about my setup...I know it's right for the most part just not sure about the side fan- should it be intake or exhaust. At the moment it is intake.

All fans are GT 15's and the rear exhaust is a Slim Sycthe.

Two front intakes, bottom mounted intake and side intake.
Two top exhaust and the slim rear exhaust.

Just not sure what would work best for the side fan since the card throws air out of it and in the case- perhaps exhaust would be better? Then again intake and fresh air prob sounds good as well.




I think you need more intake if you're going to have a side exhaust fan. Not enough intake for your exhausts. But you should try your gpu temps with an intake fan and an exhaust fan.

I think your rads would be more efficient in intake than exhaust. If you remove your rear grill you would not need that relatively noisy, relatively inefficient 20mm-thick fan at the back.


----------



## Volkswagen

I like the idea of having the back fan as an intake- will give it a try


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:



Originally Posted by *ehume*


I love this.


Thanks dood!


----------



## Neo_Morpheus

Hi ehume I just need some advise. I have a HAF932 case, I have 3 fans on the top that are really just sitting there on min pushing air OUT of case. Should I turn these into pushing into my case? It could be good for my air cooler? I see on the first page you have the top fans pushing air into the case... I think I might change this tonight -even cooler temps/better wind tunnel?

Edit: I changed my fans to push down in my case. Cranked them up to 2000rpm and played crysis2 for a while. I found the cpu temp to be 2-3c cooler, but my top gtx570 to be 2-3c hotter and my bottom gtx570 to be 2-3c cooler? -Its better for my CPU and I was crazy not to try it sooner, anyway nice case solsamurai!! & thanks ehume


----------



## ehume

The HAF 932 ceiling is too high for a wind tunnel. Fill up that top space with fans . . . pushing _down_.


----------



## kevindd992002

What do you mean by a "wind tunnel" ?


----------



## salokin

Quote:



Originally Posted by *Volkswagen*


ehume- let me know about my setup...I know it's right for the most part just not sure about the side fan- should it be intake or exhaust. At the moment it is intake.

All fans are GT 15's and the rear exhaust is a Slim Sycthe.

Two front intakes, bottom mounted intake and side intake.
Two top exhaust and the slim rear exhaust.

Just not sure what would work best for the side fan since the card throws air out of it and in the case- perhaps exhaust would be better? Then again intake and fresh air prob sounds good as well.




Hi, I have the arc midi, and I would HIGHLY recommend putting your forward top fan as intake. I literally just tested it 5 minutes ago, and my prime temperatures went down 5-7 degrees during load. I have a nearly identical configuration as you, 2 front intake, bottom intake, top intake (now) back top exhaust and rear exhaust. I tested to see if the rear top exhaust made a difference as off, but it didnt. I don't have a side fan though, won't clear my SA with the TY-140's lifted a little bit due to ram clearance.

Hope this helps! And thanks again Ehume for this thread! Amazing how much of a difference that front top intake makes.


----------



## chinesethunda

Quote:



Originally Posted by *salokin*


Hi, I have the arc midi, and I would HIGHLY recommend putting your forward top fan as intake. I literally just tested it 5 minutes ago, and my prime temperatures went down 5-7 degrees during load. I have a nearly identical configuration as you, 2 front intake, bottom intake, top intake (now) back top exhaust and rear exhaust. I tested to see if the rear top exhaust made a difference as off, but it didnt. I don't have a side fan though, won't clear my SA with the TY-140's lifted a little bit due to ram clearance.

Hope this helps! And thanks again Ehume for this thread! Amazing how much of a difference that front top intake makes.


do this


----------



## ehume

Quote:



Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*


What do you mean by a "wind tunnel" ?


Wind Tunnel

The wind blows straight back in a wind tunnel. If the ceiling is too high you can't get that. So you want a "bagpipe," or a "whoopee cushion," i.e. -- a pure positive pressure rig.


----------



## mikupoiss

Added a bayfan. Sort of ghetto style:










So far no excessive vibrations.


----------



## Grouf

Hi, I'm new on overclock.net and I'm interested in your "wind tunnel" rig, you have done a really good job!
The thing is I'm a lot concerned about noise, that's why I have ordered 6 new quieter fans (2 ty 140, 2 Noiseblocker PL-1 and 2 Thermalright X-silent) in order to reduce the noise.

My question: Is it possible to build a "wind tunnel" with a decent cooling, avoiding an high airflow (to keep it quiet)?

I am not planning to OC my CPU for now so the cooling isn't a problem, I am just focused on the noise (my case is a CM 690 II advanced).

Anyway thanks for this awesome guide!


----------



## chinesethunda

if you have good cooling meaning like intake in your fan slots then you should be okay if you are not planning to OC


----------



## justanewguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Grouf*
> 
> Hi, I'm new on overclock.net and I'm interested in your "wind tunnel" rig, you have done a really good job!
> The thing is I'm a lot concerned about noise, that's why I have ordered 6 new quieter fans (2 ty 140, 2 Noiseblocker PL-1 and 2 Thermalright X-silent) in order to reduce the noise.
> My question: Is it possible to build a "wind tunnel" with a decent cooling, avoiding an high airflow (to keep it quiet)?
> I am not planning to OC my CPU for now so the cooling isn't a problem, I am just focused on the noise (my case is a CM 690 II advanced).
> Anyway thanks for this awesome guide!


yeah a windtunnel in the upper area is def a win win situation to get enough fresh air.
use foam, works exzellent without vibration

http://www.overclock.net/t/1180580/cpu-cooler-fan-position/10#post_15879595


----------



## Grouf

Glad to hear it. I didn't want to cut the rear grill without being sure it would work or not&#8230;

So I'm going to try this:


Quote:


> yeah a windtunnel in the upper area is def a win win situation to get enough fresh air.
> use foam, works exzellent without vibration
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1180580/cpu-cooler-fan-position/10#post_15879595


Thanks for the link, it will be useful.


----------



## chinesethunda

that looks just right


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> that looks just right


+1. Besides the fan behind the HDD's that's how my rig is setup.


----------



## chinesethunda

same here, only its going towards 2 gpus instead of one lol


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Grouf*
> 
> Hi, I'm new on overclock.net and I'm interested in your "wind tunnel" rig, you have done a really good job!
> The thing is I'm a lot concerned about noise, that's why I have ordered 6 new quieter fans (2 ty 140, 2 Noiseblocker PL-1 and 2 Thermalright X-silent) in order to reduce the noise.
> 
> My question: Is it possible to build a "wind tunnel" with a decent cooling, avoiding an high airflow (to keep it quiet)?
> 
> I am not planning to OC my CPU for now so the cooling isn't a problem, I am just focused on the noise (my case is a CM 690 II advanced).
> 
> Anyway thanks for this awesome guide!


My own rig follows the diagram you posted below. I set up my system to mostly use low rpm fans to run it quietly. When I sit up to type the front of my case is 20 inches (50cm) from my right rear.

The only time it gets noticeable is when the cpu really loads up. Then the PWM fans on my cpu heatsink spin up. At the same time my top intake spins up. It is a TY-140, which is a PWM fan. I link it and the two cpu fans on an Akasa pwm harness, with the controller plug plugged into the cpu header on the mb.

So I get a mostly very quiet rig, and when it loads up it is still a quiet rig.


----------



## kevindd992002

@ehume

What do I need to use to separate the air environment of my GPU from the CPU heatsink? As you know my video card is expelling hot air towards the center of the case and I'm worried that my bottom fan pushes that hot air close to the intake of my CPU heatsink which will be detrimental to CPU temps.


----------



## Grouf

Quote:


> same here, only its going towards 2 gpus instead of one lol


Quote:


> +1. Besides the fan behind the HDD's that's how my rig is setup.


Nice!
Quote:


> My own rig follows the diagram you posted below. I set up my system to mostly use low rpm fans to run it quietly. When I sit up to type the front of my case is 20 inches (50cm) from my right rear.
> 
> The only time it gets noticeable is when the cpu really loads up. Then the PWM fans on my cpu heatsink spin up. At the same time my top intake spins up. It is a TY-140, which is a PWM fan. I link it and the two cpu fans on an Akasa pwm harness, with the controller plug plugged into the cpu header on the mb.
> 
> So I get a mostly very quiet rig, and when it loads up it is still a quiet rig.


You have fully answered to my concerns. I still can't believe how good this setup seems to be, according to the feedbacks in this thread you have brought a godsend.

I should have ordered a third TY-140, but at the beginning I was planning to use it as top intake too, with the rear exhaust fan a push-pull config wasn't necessary for my heatsink (moreover I have already an Akasa pwm splitter).

If it's still quiet as you said I'll overclock my 2500K for sure. Thank you again.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> @ehume
> 
> What do I need to use to separate the air environment of my GPU from the CPU heatsink? As you know my video card is expelling hot air towards the center of the case and I'm worried that my bottom fan pushes that hot air close to the intake of my CPU heatsink which will be detrimental to CPU temps.


Go to a variety of hobby shops near you. One will carry plastic panels -- styrofoam sheets -- that model railroaders use to build their model buildings. It comes in a variety of thicknesses. I bought several thicknesses in packages, each package with several sheets, all of the same thickness.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Go to a variety of hobby shops near you. One will carry plastic panels -- styrofoam sheets -- that model railroaders use to build their model buildings. It comes in a variety of thicknesses. I bought several thicknesses in packages, each package with several sheets, all of the same thickness.


Can you show me a pic of the thing you're referring to? Just so you know, it's very very hard to look for these kinds of items in our country


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Go to a variety of hobby shops near you. One will carry plastic panels -- styrofoam sheets -- that model railroaders use to build their model buildings. It comes in a variety of thicknesses. I bought several thicknesses in packages, each package with several sheets, all of the same thickness.
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show me a pic of the thing you're referring to? Just so you know, it's very very hard to look for these kinds of items in our country
Click to expand...

I had to go out for a few errands. Spoke to the local hobby guy. The sheets are styrene, not styrofoam. Sorry for the lapse.

I found this, and this. I have an Evergreen pack for 0.020" and a Plastruct 91103 .030" (0.8mm) and something from a pack where I have thrown away the envelope. Just remember that 1mm = 0.040"

A Plastruct is here. And another is here.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I had to go out for a few errands. Spoke to the local hobby guy. The sheets are styrene, not styrofoam. Sorry for the lapse.
> 
> I found this, and this. I have an Evergreen pack for 0.020" and a Plastruct 91103 .030" (0.8mm) and something from a pack where I have thrown away the envelope. Just remember that 1mm = 0.040"
> 
> A Plastruct is here. And another is here.


Thanks for the pics although I doubt if I'll ever find those here, I'll try anyway









If so, what is an easy alternative? And how do you go about installing those?


----------



## ehume

You can use cardboard to test out the principle. Then do a web search on "styrene sheet' and see if you want to mail order something. If you live near Manila you could search on hobby store + manila or something.


----------



## chinesethunda

its pretty efficient if you have a fan in your 5.25" drive bays


----------



## justanewguy

++ got almost the same fan setup except one more in the top and i dont know which case you own.
but this is exactly how it should look like.

i am running an extreme silent pc, the highest rpm i set the fans to is 900 rpm - +-5% (2x ty 140 on my archon)

rest is running at around 500 rpm and its still cool enough to run like it should.


----------



## Grouf

Quote:


> ++ got almost the same fan setup except one more in the top and i dont know which case you own.
> but this is exactly how it should look like.
> 
> i am running an extreme silent pc, the highest rpm i set the fans to is 900 rpm - +-5% (2x ty 140 on my archon)
> 
> rest is running at around 500 rpm and its still cool enough to run like it should.


Extremely silent? I love this, better than I expected.

I knew that run low rpm fans could be useful when you are looking for quite, but I was skeptical about using many 120-140mm fans, low rpm or not. I really need to receive them and test it then.

And my case is a CM 690 II Advanced, I hope it will handle it in a good way.


----------



## Cloudpost

I'm starting a new build and I'm running with a rosewill destroyer case. I'm thinking about getting the scythe slipstream 140's as they are about half the price of the TY-140s haha. I was wondering which version / versions i should get. I dont want it too loud!

Link to case: http://www.rosewill.com/products/1528/productDetail.htm

SM1425SL12SL (500 rpm)
SM1425SL12L (800 rpm)
SM1425SL12M (1,200 rpm)
SM1425SL12H (1,700 rpm)

Noise Level:
9.6 / 14.3 / 23.2 / 36.4 dBA

Air Flow:
27.2 / 43.5 / 65.2 / 92.4 CFM

I was thinking

2 front fans (one in the 5.25 top space)
1 Mid section intake
1 side intake
1 Bottom Intake
1 Top intake
1 rear exhaust? or just leave it open


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cloudpost*
> 
> I'm starting a new build and I'm running with a rosewill destroyer case. I'm thinking about getting the scythe slipstream 140's as they are about half the price of the TY-140s haha. I was wondering which version / versions i should get. I dont want it too loud!
> Link to case: http://www.rosewill.com/products/1528/productDetail.htm
> SM1425SL12SL (500 rpm)
> SM1425SL12L (800 rpm)
> SM1425SL12M (1,200 rpm)
> SM1425SL12H (1,700 rpm)
> Noise Level:
> 9.6 / 14.3 / 23.2 / 36.4 dBA
> Air Flow:
> 27.2 / 43.5 / 65.2 / 92.4 CFM
> I was thinking
> 2 front fans (one in the 5.25 top space)
> 1 Mid section intake
> 1 side intake
> 1 Bottom Intake
> 1 Top intake
> 1 rear exhaust? or just leave it open


Get the Akasa 12cm Viper. Pushes about 84CFM at about 29dBA. Get the 140mm if you want for the 5.25 bay. It has the same CFM/dBA ratio as some extremely expensive Sanyo Denki's, Delta's (I don't know actually), and Servos.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Cloudpost*
> 
> I'm starting a new build and I'm running with a rosewill destroyer case. I'm thinking about getting the scythe slipstream 140's as they are about half the price of the TY-140s haha. I was wondering which version / versions i should get. I dont want it too loud!
> Link to case: http://www.rosewill.com/products/1528/productDetail.htm
> SM1425SL12SL (500 rpm)
> SM1425SL12L (800 rpm)
> SM1425SL12M (1,200 rpm)
> SM1425SL12H (1,700 rpm)
> Noise Level:
> 9.6 / 14.3 / 23.2 / 36.4 dBA
> Air Flow:
> 27.2 / 43.5 / 65.2 / 92.4 CFM
> I was thinking
> 2 front fans (one in the 5.25 top space)
> 1 Mid section intake
> 1 side intake
> 1 Bottom Intake
> 1 Top intake
> 1 rear exhaust? or just leave it open
> 
> 
> 
> Get the Akasa 12cm Viper. Pushes about 84CFM at about 29dBA. Get the 140mm if you want for the 5.25 bay. It has the same CFM/dBA ratio as some extremely expensive Sanyo Denki's, Delta's (I don't know actually), and Servos.
Click to expand...

Cloudpost - I think you have the right idea.

HybridCore - The Viper is an interesting fan, but you can get the same performance from cheaper fans. The Apache and Viper are nothing special. They just look real interesting.

Overall, use the largest fan that will fit in an opening, and then the slowest rpm's. Wherever you have a flat surface surrounding a 120x120mm window, use a fan like the KM2-800 or the KM2-1200. They use 100% of the window, where a 120mm fan will use less than 78% of the window. The KM2's and the TY-140 use 120mm screw holes, so they will fit whenever there are fittings for 120mm fans.

For pushing air up, use a TY-140; the KM2's are sleeve bearing fans that do not tolerate the flat position with output pointed upward.

If you can use 200mm fans, do so.


----------



## Cloudpost

Great so i'l grab 2 - Ty-140's for the top/bottom intake and the rest as Scythe Slipstream 140s in the 1200 flavor!

Would you recommend a rear exhaust? i fell like i wouldn't even need any as the rig sucks in so much!


----------



## ehume

I always recommend removing your rear grill with one of these. Then you won't need a rear fan.


----------



## langer1972

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I always recommend removing your rear grill with one of these. Then you won't need a rear fan.


That is a cool tool thank you for posting that.


----------



## R4Z0R

hmmm... my hyper 212+ is struggling with my current overclock voltages. Ill try this when i get home. Nice guide.


----------



## chinesethunda

depends if you have your cooler in push pull or not. if you do have it in push pull you probably can do without a rear fan, but if you are just doing push, a rear fan could help, still cut out the rear grill though. I cut out the grills of the front and rear grills of mine. also on the bottom of the PSU so it gets better intake of air


----------



## solsamurai

Got around to transferring some images from my wife's camera.







Here's a pic of my top intake and how I blocked off the rear top fan slot. I used black stock paper from a craft store and black electrical tape. Also used the tape to cover a couple other openings near the front that I could feel air blowing out from.


----------



## ihatelolcats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Got around to transferring some images from my wife's camera.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a pic of my top intake and how I blocked off the rear top fan slot. I used black stock paper from a craft store and black electrical tape. Also used the tape to cover a couple other openings near the front that I could feel air blowing out from.


i like that look you should leave off the top cover lol


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ihatelolcats*
> 
> i like that look you should leave off the top cover lol


If my 1-year-old son wasn't so adventurous I would.


----------



## chinesethunda

whats the performance gain of doing that? how much decrease of temps did you measure?


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> whats the performance gain of doing that? how much decrease of temps did you measure?


I had previously tried two top intakes and noticed no noticeable difference in temps vs just the top front intake pictured. It feeds fresh air directly in front of the Silver Arrow. The blocked off rear slot helps direct airflow. Temps are great with less noise. All fans set to intake have yielded much butter temps than with top exhaust.


----------



## chinesethunda

hmmm okay, that sounds pretty good of an idea, makes sense too. I am wondering if i should cut a hole at the top of the cm elite case I have for my other build


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> hmmm okay, that sounds pretty good of an idea, makes sense too. I am wondering if i should cut a hole at the top of the cm elite case I have for my other build


For experimenting sake I'd say it's worth a shot.


----------



## chinesethunda

yeah me too, i wanna do some testing with the hyper 212+ in different positions and things


----------



## Deni

IMO:

If you have a case with top fans as well as a tower cpu cooler, it is worth trying:

Top fan as intake

Tower cooler blowing downwards onto the top of the graphics card.

Reasoning:

CPU cooler will get fresh air.

Generally speaking, the CPU temps are cooler than GPU temps, thus, even though the CPU coolers is blowing on the GPU, it will still cool it as:

It is cooler than the GPU

Additional cooling because of created air pressure.

My 2c


----------



## chinesethunda

true but then you are giving the GPU hotter temps to work with which will in turn make the GPU run a bit hotter


----------



## jbobb

I have a question. I have an H80 that I got for Xmas and I am planning on getting a new case. It will more than likely be a Corsair 500r (maybe a 650d....maybe). If I wanted to do a case with postive pressure and still have decent cooling for the rad on the H80, how do you think the best setup would be for this?


----------



## Deni

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> true but then you are giving the GPU hotter temps to work with which will in turn make the GPU run a bit hotter


Well, the GPU cooler generally takes it's air from the bottom of the card. This air is generally supplied by front/bottom intake fans.

The "warm" air will be blowing only on the back side of the GPU, and generally that side is really hot and without any sort of cooling.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deni*
> 
> Well, the GPU cooler generally takes it's air from the bottom of the card. This air is generally supplied by front/bottom intake fans.
> The "warm" air will be blowing only on the back side of the GPU, and generally that side is really hot and without any sort of cooling.


Lower temps with positive pressure setup makes more sense to me. All the air in the case is being forced out the back pane and rear exhaust vents. The setup you mentioned would be circulating more hot air inside than pushing it out. I have tried many different setups and found temps are best with positive pressure.







Do you currently use the setup you mentioned? If so maybe you can run some tests with top/down vs front/back setups on your cpu cooler? Reality is so much more fun than speculation!


----------



## Deni

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Lower temps with positive pressure setup makes more sense to me. All the air in the case is being forced out the back pane and rear exhaust vents. The setup you mentioned would be circulating more hot air inside than pushing it out. I have tried many different setups and found temps are best with positive pressure.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you currently use the setup you mentioned? If so maybe you can run some tests with top/down vs front/back setups on your cpu cooler? Reality is so much more fun than speculation!


The setup I mentioned has positive pressure.

I cannot try this setup as I have a cheap old case with top mounted PSU.

This is a simple draw of my setup:



Side mounted and bottom mounted fans have filters. Front mounted don't have filters but generally the front fascia acts as one.

Deni


----------



## solsamurai

Very nice.







For me a front to back oriented airflow pattern seems better, but I would love to see your config put into action. If you are going for a positive pressure setup then you would not need that rear exhaust.







If you haven't already try removing it and see how it effects temps. I noticed no difference in my case when I did this and lowered the total noise level as well.


----------



## Cloudpost

Im so sad. ordered 6 ty-140's and none of them fit









off to return them and get a true 120mm fan. What do you guys think about this: http://sitesearch.outletpc.com/?page=1&query=bitfenix+spectre

They are on sale!

stats:
Current: 0.06 A
Speed: 800-1000 RPM
Air Flow: 60 CFM
Noise: 18 dBA
Air Pressure: 1.93 mmH2O
Bearing Type: Fluid Dynamic Bearings (FDB)

seems like a win? Any other suggestions on a quiet 120?


----------



## 161029

bump

People really need to see this if they haven't already.

One thing I don't think ehume explained yet is why you shouldn't have a fan over the heatsink adding air into the flow. IMO it should be pretty obvious but if you don't know, it will blow air onto the gfx card by partially redirecting the airflow. You must add the air before it is heated. Adding that top intake over the heatsink is like adding gasoline while you're driving instead of before.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> bump
> People really need to see this if they haven't already.
> One thing I don't think ehume explained yet is why you shouldn't have a fan over the heatsink adding air into the flow. IMO it should be pretty obvious but if you don't know, it will blow air onto the gfx card by partially redirecting the airflow. You must add the air before it is heated. Adding that top intake over the heatsink is like adding gasoline while you're driving instead of before.


Well ehume suggested me to use a top 200mm intake with my coolermaster haf922 case. it does have a portion that is blowing directly over the heatsink.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Well ehume suggested me to use a top 200mm intake with my coolermaster haf922 case. it does have a portion that is blowing directly over the heatsink.


Well, there's only one top intake and from the looks of it will only overlap part of your heatsink. I mean directly blowing down onto it so all of the airflow is redirected.


----------



## chinesethunda

well, it might work for some people and not others, from my experience if i have the top intake while my computer is on my dresser or something, it doesn't do anything, but if i have it on the ground it helps with temps because its cooler, so each person has to test for themselves to see if it works for them


----------



## Deni

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> bump
> People really need to see this if they haven't already.
> One thing I don't think ehume explained yet is why you shouldn't have a fan over the heatsink adding air into the flow. IMO it should be pretty obvious but if you don't know, it will blow air onto the gfx card by partially redirecting the airflow. You must add the air before it is heated. Adding that top intake over the heatsink is like adding gasoline while you're driving instead of before.


The idea is that the air coming from the CPU heatsink is still cooler than the GPU.

i.e.:

CPU temps: 50c

GPU temps: 70c

Difference: 20c

So that 50c air will still "cool" a 70c area, plus you have the benefit of added pressure and air flow, which cools even more.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Well ehume suggested me to use a top 200mm intake with my coolermaster haf922 case. it does have a portion that is blowing directly over the heatsink.


I believe he's referring to a fan on the side panel directly over the CPU cooler. The type of cooler you have plays a big role in this setup. IMO in a proper positive pressure setup with the right cooler (like this one perhaps) it could be beneficial.

I have a top front 140mm feeding fresh air to my Silver Arrow. That and the design of the SA make adding an intake directly over it on the side panel unnecessary for me.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> well, it might work for some people and not others, from my experience if i have the top intake while my computer is on my dresser or something, it doesn't do anything, but if i have it on the ground it helps with temps because its cooler, so each person has to test for themselves to see if it works for them


+1000









There's no one perfect way/method/setup. Just lots of experimenting and posting the results in this thread!


----------



## scorpiontsi

I recently purchased the Rosewill Thor V2 it appears to be a very well built case for its price point. Excellent cooling and placed at the top of Tom's recent 10 slot case comparison test. Of course that rating was thanks to its pricepoint and performance (Audible noise, cooling). Unfortunately UPS did not deliver the rest of my components today so I will have to wait till tomorrow to see how well it performs. She will be holding the big daddy nhd-14 heatsink.

If this case has not previously been mentioned in this thread, it deserves to be. If it has just add me to its list of supporters. Anyone with the Thor V2 or in the know far as case cooling, any suggestions on mods would be helpful.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpiontsi*
> 
> I recently purchased the Rosewill Thor V2 it appears to be a very well built case for its price point. Excellent cooling and placed at the top of Tom's recent 10 slot case comparison test. Of course that rating was thanks to its pricepoint and performance (Audible noise, cooling). Unfortunately UPS did not deliver the rest of my components today so I will have to wait till tomorrow to see how well it performs. She will be holding the big daddy nhd-14 heatsink.
> If this case has not previously been mentioned in this thread, it deserves to be. If it has just add me to its list of supporters. Anyone with the Thor V2 or in the know far as case cooling, any suggestions on mods would be helpful.


I don't know how I feel about those top vents on the side panel. Seems like a good deal of air from the top and side fan would blow out and be sucked right back into the case. Oh, and I believe the Silver Arrow is a tad larger than the NH-D14.


----------



## scorpiontsi

Well reading a bit more in this post has given me some ideas on how to trim the air more over my important components and possibly add more fans from the front in the extra drive bays as others have done. The vents on the top seem a bit silly but if i flip that fan to be blow in the case I dont think the fins will be a problem. I am using a micro atx board in this monster the maximus IV gene3/gen3 with only one video card. So lots of extra case room and lots of room for modifications.

Nh-d14 is a monster to me and for this mobo had a ton of concerns about making it all fit =)
I'll have to check out that silver arrow though ... here in Texas bigger is better


----------



## ehume

In Texas, you need a big air cooler because it gets dayum hot in the summertime.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpiontsi*
> 
> Well reading a bit more in this post has given me some ideas on how to trim the air more over my important components and possibly add more fans from the front in the extra drive bays as others have done. The vents on the top seem a bit silly but if i flip that fan to be blow in the case I dont think the fins will be a problem. I am using a micro atx board in this monster the maximus IV gene3/gen3 with only one video card. So lots of extra case room and lots of room for modifications.
> Nh-d14 is a monster to me and for this mobo had a ton of concerns about making it all fit =)
> I'll have to check out that silver arrow though ... here in Texas bigger is better










One great feature about the SA is both 140mm fans are PWM controlled. That's one of the main reasons I got it over the D14. Both are excellent air coolers.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> In Texas, you need a big air cooler because it get dayum hot in the summertime.


Seriously. My hometown in southern california is the same way. 105+ degrees during the summer months.


----------



## scorpiontsi

I have the 2011 SE version of the DH-14 with dual PWM fans. Since Im using a 1155 socket I had to order the proper mounting kit. Thermalright makes fantastic heat sinks though My first overclocking heatsink was made by them after a ton of research. Still have that tornado sitting around here somewhere that went on top of it. Talk about loud...

From Noctua's website in reference to the 2011 DH-14
*Dual NF-P14/NF-P12 PWM fan setup
The NH-D14 sports a premium quality dual PWM fan setup consisting of Noctua's award-winning NF-P12 (120mm) and NF-P14 (140mm) fans, both of which feature Vortex-Control Notches, SCD technology and SSO-Bearings in order to achieve a perfect balance of performance and quietness*


----------



## solsamurai

Thanks for reminder about that! The SA is just as quiet. I'm not a fan of TR's other heatsinks....except the Archon.


----------



## Greg1

Should I change anything in my setup ?
There is no top panel with filter on the foto, but I use it.


----------



## 161029

The D14 looks so perfect in there.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greg1*
> 
> Should I change anything in my setup ?
> There is no top panel with filter on the foto, but I use it.


I'd remove the top HDD cage. Looks aweome!


----------



## 161029

I don't know what I was doing the other day. Yes, there's no one setup that's perfect for every case (that would be too convenient. Takes the fun out of everything). I think it might be because of the direction of the airflow. I'm pretty sure you want that air aiming directly for the fan hole there. You don't want it going down and hitting solid metal. Although, it could still work. The air would hit the metal, float up, and get pushed out. Only doing some quick visualizations. Don't have the time to work it all out. Another things I'm pretty sure everybody knows is to adjust the fan speed of the top intake if you have one over your CPU heatsink.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greg1*
> 
> Should I change anything in my setup ?
> There is no top panel with filter on the foto, but I use it.


Quote:



> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> The D14 looks so perfect in there.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> I'd remove the top HDD cage. Looks aweome!


I repeated the pic because it is so beautiful. Very clean looking. I quoted both comments because I agree with them.

What else I would do is to get a Klein nibbler, and remove the rear grill. Failing that (and I can understand not wanting to cut such a lovely case), you'll need a rear fan comparable to the fans in the heatsink.

I wish I had had a nibbler when I cut out my rear grill. Removing it with side cutters took a long time, made my hands sore and required lots of filing to make the hole approximately right. Removing my slot pillars OTOH was essentially no trouble because I had a nibbler. What a difference!

So, don't try it without the right tool, but I would remove that rear grill.

Edit -- do remove that foam from your HD. I tried something like that and removing the foam dropped my HD temps by 7c.


----------



## chinesethunda

remove the grill in your rear exhaust would be the best thing to do, if not, then put a fan there that has good static pressure to push past the grill would be a good idea


----------



## Greg1

Cutting out the rear grill is tempting but I really don't want to cut my new case, so I'll go with the exhaust fan. But now there is another question, I have a couple of fans but which one will be the best?
I have:

Noctua NF-P12 120mm
Enermax Magma 120mm
Fractal 140mm
Fractal fan came with the case, like those in the front. On the NH-D14 are Noiseblockers PK2


----------



## justanewguy

+ on cut out the rear grill!


----------



## 161029

None of the above. Get Akasa 140mm vipers (not for HS).


----------



## chinesethunda

you need a higher speed fan for the rear grill because if the rear fan is not fast enough on getting the air out, you are actually making the temps worse, you can check out the last item on my sig, I got worse temps when I use a fan that is not faster than the hsf


----------



## ehume

What size fan will fit in the back? If a 140mm fan will fit, use the P14 or a TY-140. None of the other 140mm fans have a comparable static pressure, except the Kaze Maru 2 1700 rpm.

If only a 120mm fan will fit, consider a GT AP-14 or AP-15, or an Ultra Kaze 2000 rpm. You can always undervolt it with a single-channel fan controller. A UK2K at 5v runs 1050 rpm. A UK3K at 5v runs 1250 rpm, so simply rewiring the fans won't quite do.

To expand on what chinesethunda says, to evacuate your case properly downstream from a cpu heatsink, you must have adequate cfm to evacuate the case as well as suck up all of the exhaust from the cpu heatsink, and it must be driven with sufficient static pressure to overcome the resistance of the rear grill. And that is why I got rid of mine.


----------



## chinesethunda

when you cut the rear grill off of the case you will feel so much air coming out the back that can't be matched if you had a grill and fan imo


----------



## Greg1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> What size fan will fit in the back? If a 140mm fan will fit, use the P14 or a TY-140. None of the other 140mm fans have a comparable static pressure, except the Kaze Maru 2 1700 rpm.
> 
> If only a 120mm fan will fit, consider a GT AP-14 or AP-15, or an Ultra Kaze 2000 rpm. You can always undervolt it with a single-channel fan controller. A UK2K at 5v runs 1050 rpm. A UK3K at 5v runs 1250 rpm, so simply rewiring the fans won't quite do.
> 
> To expand on what chinesethunda says, to evacuate your case properly downstream from a cpu heatsink, you must have adequate cfm to evacuate the case as well as suck up all of the exhaust from the cpu heatsink, and it must be driven with sufficient static pressure to overcome the resistance of the rear grill. And that is why I got rid of mine.


There's space for 140mm. Maybe for the moment I'll remove P14 from the top and put it on exhaust. And in the top will go fractal 140mm.
In Arc Midi there is also space for 180mm fan in the top, maybe it'll be better with 180mm blowing inside ?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> when you cut the rear grill off of the case you will feel so much air coming out the back that can't be matched if you had a grill and fan imo


I'm almost convinced to cut the damn thing out


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greg1*
> 
> There's space for 140mm. Maybe for the moment I'll remove P14 from the top and put it on exhaust. And in the top will go fractal 140mm.
> In Arc Midi there is also space for 180mm fan in the top, maybe it'll be better with 180mm blowing inside ?
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> when you cut the rear grill off of the case you will feel so much air coming out the back that can't be matched if you had a grill and fan imo
> 
> 
> 
> I'm almost convinced to cut the damn thing out
Click to expand...

Using the P14 as an exhaust fan sounds right. Using a 180mm fan blowing down sounds good, too. But before you do, have it running outside the case. Feel the vibrations as you hold the frame in your hands. Then move the fan from horizontal output to downward output. Make sure the fan is comfortable pushing air down. And while you're at it, feel the vibes from pushing air up, just so you'll know.


----------



## scorpiontsi

I have finished my build and I have a ton of room for modifications. This case has fans blowing in from top, front and side. The fan on back is blowing out. Has a bracket for another fan coming up from the bottom but not to interested in it. I am more interested in possibly blocking off the lower part of the case and putting a fan in my 4.5 drive bays blowing in... What do you guys think? Here is a couple pics of the setup as it stands.

Lower part of case:


upper part:


Pics are not the greatest was taking them for the maximus iv gene3 owners thread to show just how big that NH-d14 is


----------



## ehume

I have been advocating placing a barrier between what i will call cpu space and gpu space. Hobby shops sell sheets of styrene plastic which is light, stiff and yet flexible. That stuff will partition a case just fine.


----------



## chinesethunda

instead of styrene plastic, would plastic rubbery foam that sometimes comes with motherboards, like the stuff it sits on, work?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> instead of styrene plastic, would plastic rubbery foam that sometimes comes with motherboards, like the stuff it sits on, work?


I expect it would be too flimsy; but go ahead and try.


----------



## chinesethunda

It might be too flimsy, perhaps cardboard? is there any risk to that or should it be okay? I have plenty of cardboard laying around


----------



## tmunn

Any suggestions for rotary tool bits for grinding out the nubs left behind from a honeycomb grill?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> It might be too flimsy, perhaps cardboard? is there any risk to that or should it be okay? I have plenty of cardboard laying around


Try it. But the plastic sheeting will be more permanent if you stay with it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tmunn*
> 
> Any suggestions for rotary tool bits for grinding out the nubs left behind from a honeycomb grill?


Use a nibbler the first time and you won't need to rotary anything. Filing and stuff makes metal dust . . .


----------



## tmunn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Filing and stuff makes metal dust . . .


Oh, I know, lol







I'm going to tear down and mod this case up one day soon. I'm currently just gathering ideas and such. A lot of holes will be cut, so I'll be having to clean out metal dust as it is.


----------



## chinesethunda

i just use regular wood sanding bits for the metal, it works imo but you go through them fast lol


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tmunn*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Filing and stuff makes metal dust . . .
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I know, lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to tear down and mod this case up one day soon. I'm currently just gathering ideas and such. A lot of holes will be cut, so I'll be having to clean out metal dust as it is.
Click to expand...

Nibbler. I knew I should have emphasized that link more. This huddler stuff doesn't emphasize links enough. Look here. The nibbler cuts so clean you may decide you don't need to do any filing.


----------



## ihatelolcats

nibbler is really cool to see in action


----------



## chinesethunda

it is, it is very useful when cutting cases


----------



## 161029

Anybody think of cutting out the mesh on the side? It ruins the look for me. Might as well patch it up with a square piece of steel. That would actually look pretty neat.


----------



## chinesethunda

you could try, depends all on your tastes imo


----------



## Greg1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Using the P14 as an exhaust fan sounds right. Using a 180mm fan blowing down sounds good, too. But before you do, have it running outside the case. Feel the vibrations as you hold the frame in your hands. Then move the fan from horizontal output to downward output. Make sure he fan is comfortable pushing air down. And while you're at it, feel the vibes from pushing air up, just so you'll know.


I've just put the P14 on the rear, on the top went Phobya G-Silent 18 700RPM, it's not the best fan in the world- it has quite a lot of vibration, but it's relatively quiet and it moves a lot of air.
With this setup I've achieved the best CPU temperature, thanks









Is there anything more I should/could do ? (except cutting out the rear grill







)


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greg1*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Using the P14 as an exhaust fan sounds right. Using a 180mm fan blowing down sounds good, too. But before you do, have it running outside the case. Feel the vibrations as you hold the frame in your hands. Then move the fan from horizontal output to downward output. Make sure he fan is comfortable pushing air down. And while you're at it, feel the vibes from pushing air up, just so you'll know.
> 
> 
> 
> I've just put the P14 on the rear, on the top went Phobya G-Silent 18 700RPM, it's not the best fan in the world- it has quite a lot of vibration, but it's relatively quiet and it moves a lot of air.
> With this setup I've achieved the best CPU temperature, thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is there anything more I should/could do ? (except cutting out the rear grill
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
Click to expand...

Looks good. Actually, looks fine.

Now clean the leading edges of your D14 fans and make sure you have filters on all of your intakes. Dust is not your friend.


----------



## justanewguy

perhaps get some y cable extensions, then you can wire all these fan cables through the top or behind the mobo tray


----------



## matrix2000x2

I finally got my Nibbler in last night and I began cutting away at my new case. It was sound what hard to initialize because I don't have a power drill or any tools other than scissors or a screw driver for that matter. I was able to fit the nibbler through a hole that I slowly pried open with a screw driver I had. I stick the screw driver in one of the mounting holes of the rear 120 exhaust and began spinning the screw driver much like using a wooden stick to start a fire on a another piece of flat wood. Eventually I was able to grind away some aluminum and make the hole big enough that stuck the entire screw driver into pry open the hole. Eventually I was able to rip the aluminum towards the middle of the exhaust holes and create a hole big enough for the nibbler to get through. I nibbled away on the case, using the fan mount layout as a guide, and finished cutting a hole from the rear exhaust. As I was cutting I realized that my cuts were not straight and there were so many jagged edges. I don't have a file to smooth out the cuts, and I'm waiting for the u channel to be delivered. Will the u channel look ugly? Also, I plan on molding the side panel but I don't have a drill to make a starting hole. It's a very thin aluminum panel and what I fear is that if I used a nail and hammer to create a starting hole, I would destroy the entire panel because the force would make the panel collapse in like an aluminum can.

http://diablotek.com/v2.0/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.product_details&flypage=tpflypage.tpl&category_id=59&product_id=113&Itemid=2&vmcchk=1&Itemid=36

^that is the case I am modding.

Also I was considering cutting out the top of the case to mount 2 140mm fans on top, but seeing the material and construction of the case, I'm a bit weary as to whether or not the case's integrity would be severely weakened.


----------



## tmunn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matrix2000x2*
> 
> ... I don't have a drill to make a starting hole. It's a very thin aluminum panel and what I fear is that if I used a nail and hammer to create a starting hole, I would destroy the entire panel because the force would make the panel collapse in like an aluminum can.


You can use a sheet metal screw to make a hole. Just screw it in using your screwdriver, then back it out.


----------



## matrix2000x2

What does a sheet metal screw look like?


----------



## chinesethunda

like this


----------



## ehume

For the price of u-channel stuff you might have gotten a tapered drill (they are used for making inset screw holes in wood) and a handle to hold it with.

I'd not recommend touching your side panel until you learn a lot more about hand tools. A stroll through a Home Depot, for example, would open your eyes. Depending on your age, a shop class at school might provide you with an education, tools and some knowledgeable people to advise you. There may be a shared workshop, a computer club, or some other way to start learning about working with tools. Merced is part of civilization, after all. Last I looked the Central Valley is filled with people who know all about working with materials.

This is definitely not a job for using a screwdriver to make a hole.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> For the price of u-channel stuff you might have gotten a tapered drill (they are used for making inset screw holes in wood) and a handle to hold it with.
> 
> This is definitely not a job for using a screwdriver to make a hole.


This. Do it right or don't do it at all.


----------



## ehume

Just a thought: you might get some good suggestions in the case-modding sub-forums.


----------



## chinesethunda

i just used a dremel to cut the entire thing lol, was roughly 25 bucks for the dremel, saves pain and time. although it kinda made me deaf lol. good thing i had my gun range headgear


----------



## Cloudpost

decided to go with the GELID silent 12 pwm fans. still deciding to keep the rear fan there or not





Here is where i hide my cd drive... who uses these anyways?!


----------



## solsamurai

Looks good.







See how your temps are without the rear exhaust fan. You probably don't need it seeing how the rear grill has already been removed.


----------



## ehume

Cloudpost - excellent choice of low noise fans. What did you use to remove the rear grill, and how did it go?

I also note that your DVD drive is pointed to the interior of the case. Is there room for it to extend its deck? I get the impression you'll use it to load your machine, and otherwise not bother with it. That's probably a rational choice for many people. OTOH, there are USB DVD drives. May daughter bought one for her laptop when the original died and there was no reasonable way to replace it.

I see the fan on top of the DVD is cushioned with foam. Excellent idea, since it dampens vibration and blocks blowback.

I note you have a 120mm fan in the 5.25 bay. Is there another slot available? Is the top of the bay covered or uncovered? With my case I have three 5.25 slots available but the top of the bay is open. That means I have room for a 140mm fan in front.

Overall, you should be pleased with your work. It looks great. And I love how you are still deciding on that rear fan. Let the data decide. Good for you.

+rep, dude.


----------



## Cloudpost

I just used a dremel with a rotating cutting blade (it was a sandy red in color. i dont know which specific one it was) and it worked pretty well. I had to use like 15 of them on my entire case modding project (i also cut out a window in the side panel). Then used a file to get rid of the sharp edges. I was looking for the nibbler, but couldn't find any locally.

And you are right about the DVD drive. I can count the number of times i've used the dvd drive in one hand since i've built my computer. The drive fully extends to the power supply perfectly with about 1mm to spare haha. Also i had the dvd drive laying around and did not feel like purchasing another one. I was also going for a clean look in the front so the internally faced dvd drive really helped with that.

For the front fans.. yeah that's all the room there is. Its a pretty small mid tower. Maybe if i didn't have a hard drive there or my fan controller i could possibly fit 1 more but then i would have to find space for my HD. And the top fan is also mounted via foam as well. I was lucky to have that laying around as it was very easy to work with and it performs like a champ.

Thanks for the words of encouragement!


----------



## chinesethunda

lol i was wondering about the dvd drive too haha. i would take out the rear fan, you will get much better cooling with it. check out the last item in my sig, but otherwise good job, and for your ram, i noticed usually on motherboards the ram should be spaced one apart for better stability? i think lol


----------



## Cloudpost

yeah usually, but this mobo has them next to each other (two are blue in color and two are black in color) right now they are both in the blue slots. Im 80% sure that the colors indicate where the pairs of sticks should go. (i was 100% but now im doubting myself haha)


----------



## matrix2000x2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> For the price of u-channel stuff you might have gotten a tapered drill (they are used for making inset screw holes in wood) and a handle to hold it with.
> 
> I'd not recommend touching your side panel until you learn a lot more about hand tools. A stroll through a Home Depot, for example, would open your eyes. Depending on your age, a shop class at school might provide you with an education, tools and some knowledgeable people to advise you. There may be a shared workshop, a computer club, or some other way to start learning about working with tools. Merced is part of civilization, after all. Last I looked the Central Valley is filled with people who know all about working with materials.
> 
> This is definitely not a job for using a screwdriver to make a hole.


http://www.walmart.com/ip/Dremel-100-N-8-Rotary-Tool-with-Bonus-EZ404-EZ-Lock-Starter-Accessory-Kit/17352991?findingMethod=rr

Would that be good to cut the side panel?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matrix2000x2*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> For the price of u-channel stuff you might have gotten a tapered drill (they are used for making inset screw holes in wood) and a handle to hold it with.
> 
> I'd not recommend touching your side panel until you learn a lot more about hand tools. A stroll through a Home Depot, for example, would open your eyes. Depending on your age, a shop class at school might provide you with an education, tools and some knowledgeable people to advise you. There may be a shared workshop, a computer club, or some other way to start learning about working with tools. Merced is part of civilization, after all. Last I looked the Central Valley is filled with people who know all about working with materials.
> 
> This is definitely not a job for using a screwdriver to make a hole.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.walmart.com/ip/Dremel-100-N-8-Rotary-Tool-with-Bonus-EZ404-EZ-Lock-Starter-Accessory-Kit/17352991?findingMethod=rr
> 
> Would that be good to cut the side panel?
Click to expand...

Ask Cloudpost.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Cloudpost - excellent choice of low noise fans. What did you use to remove the rear grill, and how did it go?
> 
> I also note that your DVD drive is pointed to the interior of the case. Is there room for it to extend its deck? I get the impression you'll use it to load your machine, and otherwise not bother with it. That's probably a rational choice for many people. OTOH, there are USB DVD drives. May daughter bought one for her laptop when the original died and there was no reasonable way to replace it.
> 
> I see the fan on top of the DVD is cushioned with foam. Excellent idea, since it dampens vibration and blocks blowback.
> 
> I note you have a 120mm fan in the 5.25 bay. Is there another slot available? Is the top of the bay covered or uncovered? With my case I have three 5.25 slots available but the top of the bay is open. That means I have room for a 140mm fan in front.
> 
> Overall, you should be pleased with your work. It looks great. And I love how you are still deciding on that rear fan. Let the data decide. Good for you.
> 
> +rep, dude.


ehume repped you. I need to see this for myself.

*looks on previous page*

...I have no words except for +rep.


----------



## Cloudpost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matrix2000x2*
> 
> http://www.walmart.com/ip/Dremel-100-N-8-Rotary-Tool-with-Bonus-EZ404-EZ-Lock-Starter-Accessory-Kit/17352991?findingMethod=rr
> Would that be good to cut the side panel?


looks good to me. i used a one speed black and decker rotary tool so im sure that one is fine. And you see that little red disk on the package. you use that for cutting and your going to need a bunch depending on how much your going to cut. I'd say about 2 to 3 per fan 120mm grill. As you cut the disk gets smaller and sometimes they break prematurely. You might be able to find a better cutting wheel, but that is all that i have experience with.

As with all power tools, always wear eye protection and go slow with both hands making sure your in control at all times. If the disk breaks as your cutting, a shard to the eye will be no fun. Also cutting also creates some dust. I did it outside in my garage. Def not an indoor job


----------



## ehume

Just got back from a shopping trip. Usually I go on buying trips, but when I go to a hardware store I can't call it anything but shopping. Strolled through the tools section of Home Depot. Got myself a fine snout wrench, for want of something better to call it.

I looked at Dremels and accessories. Not impressed. Mind you, Dremels came out after I bought most of my main tools, so I never really used them. But we used to use drills to accomplish the same things.

Looking at the cutting blades, I decided that if I were going to cut a window in a side panel, I'd use a nibbler. Sure, you have to buy them mail order. I bought mine that way (link), with an extra blade just to be safe. But it leaves everything around it undisturbed. Sure, it will take some time, but so will a Dremel. At least it won't spew metal dust everywhere.

I would clamp my framing square to the panel. You could also use a long metal ruler. That would give me an edge to work against to allow me to make straight cuts.

Anyway, that's what I would use.


----------



## chinesethunda

i agree with ehume, i have the same dremel that cloudpost probably has, but its loud as a .... something loud, and I had to wear gun range headgear. but the nibbler is quiet, actually gets straight lines fairly well and is efficient, you might have to sand it afterwards, but its effective nevertheless


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> i agree with ehume, i have the same dremel that cloudpost probably has, but its loud as a .... something loud, and I had to wear gun range headgear. but the nibbler is quiet, actually gets straight lines fairly well and is efficient, you might have to sand it afterwards, but its effective nevertheless


If he's putting a window on it I suspect the edges will be covered. In any case I didn't sand the edges of the slot pillars I cut out. I just wish I had known about this little gem when I was cutting out my grills.


----------



## chinesethunda

if i had to do it again, i would get the one ehume suggested. I had gotten an alternate nibbler because it was cheaper, it's still good but it has some quirks, but now I would just dremel everything. lol


----------



## matrix2000x2

I'm probably going to just use the dremel to get a starting hole so I can use the nibbler and also use the dremel to sand the edges of 120mm exhaust hole I made.


----------



## Tori

i have a haf x (just got it) and I need some help with how to position the following fans:

front 230mm, front bay 140mm, 2x top 200mm, side 140mm, rear 140mm


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matrix2000x2*
> 
> I'm probably going to just use the dremel to get a starting hole so I can use the nibbler and also use the dremel to sand the edges of 120mm exhaust hole I made.


You own a Dremel but not a drill?


----------



## chinesethunda

i own a dremel but no drill, lol i can't find drill bits for my dremel lol


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> i own a dremel but no drill, lol i can't find drill bits for my dremel lol


lol


----------



## ehume

Because I bought some of my tools in groups, I now have three brace-and-bits, two handcrank drills, two corded drills and a battery-powered drill with a dead battery -- no longer rechargeable. My dad had a push drill, but I was too late to claim it when he passed.

I used to use one of my brace-and-bits to silently cut holes with a hole saw when my daughter was sleeping in the room over the basement. I recommend that tool for cutting flimsy stuff like the walls of cases. Also, get a 4x4 stub and put it under the side panel where you are drilling. That way you are working against something solid and you won't warp your panel.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tori*
> 
> i have a haf x (just got it) and I need some help with how to position the following fans:
> front 230mm, front bay 140mm, 2x top 200mm, side 140mm, rear 140mm


All fans set to intake, remove rear 140mm and cut of the rear mesh using something like this. BTW what CPU cooler are you using or plan to use?


----------



## Tori

well i am planning on buying a H60 corsair cooler for my cpu and i was planning on putting it in the back.

can you explain why i should get rid of the mesh? i'm a little confused.

what about exhaust if i have all fans on intake?

sorry im new to this


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tori*
> 
> well i am planning on buying a H60 corsair cooler for my cpu and i was planning on putting it in the back.
> can you explain why i should get rid of the mesh? i'm a little confused.
> what about exhaust if i have all fans on intake?
> sorry im new to this


Rear mesh hinders airflow and causes turbulence which makes the rear fan noisier. This can also be said for any front mesh in cases like the Corsair 650D. Many owners in this thread have removed it and noted better temps and less noise. The H60 rad will be able to perform best with the mesh removed.









With a positive pressure setup you are creating an overpressure inside the case. This includes any slim openings between the side panels or holes on the bottom of your case (as I came to find out with mine). This also helps with dust.

With more fans set to exhaust than intake you have a negative pressure setup. There is a potential for slightly better temps but the trade off is quite a bit more dust in your case.







My temps improved when I switched to positive pressure and my rig is much quieter.









All that said you should experiment with different setups to find what works best for _your_ case as there is no one perfect setup. The effort is worth it.


----------



## scorpiontsi

Air will get out of the case...The idea is to have positive pressure wich helps eliminate dead areas. Removing the Mesh lets air-flow more effeciently.

Whoops lol already answered ... its to early


----------



## matrix2000x2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> You own a Dremel but not a drill?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> i own a dremel but no drill, lol i can't find drill bits for my dremel lol


I just ordered a dremel.. and no I don't own a drill. I am but a college student living in a rental house with 3 other students. I moved here with nothing but my clothes I had to buy a lot of stuff, which I might end up selling when I graduate and move back home or whereever.


----------



## chinesethunda

i live in an apartment with 3 other people too haha i try to use it when no one is home because its so loud grinding on the case lol


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *scorpiontsi*
> 
> Air will get out of the case...The idea is to have positive pressure wich helps eliminate dead areas. Removing the Mesh lets air-flow more effeciently.
> Whoops lol already answered ... its to early


The more answers the better if you ask me.


----------



## chinesethunda

so far i have everything on intake cept for my rad fans, I have 5 intake fans and 4 exhaust fans but I still have negative pressure lol


----------



## ehume

Actually, I don't advocate much of a positive pressure inside a case, just enough to start a flow out of the case. My problem with cases that have obstructed outflow is that you end up building a rig with a high but static pressure inside it. You can indeed get stagnation that way, and hotspots. Think bagpipe.

I want what I call a positive airflow. Ideally the pressure never builds because the air so freely leaves, so you don't get hot spots.


----------



## xunedeinx

crazy idea, but heck, why not ask it!

I have an h100, and an 400r. 400r is in the top of the case...

How about we take the fans OFF of the h100, mount and seal it at the top, and seal the case. Make every fan in it intake except for the h100 and the video card.

Would it create enough static pressure to make awesome cooling, or no?


----------



## chinesethunda

i think no because still not enough air would exit the case, and the air that doesn't would recirculate. Also it would be hard to seal every part of the case


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Actually, I don't advocate much of a positive pressure inside a case, just enough to start a flow out of the case. My problem with cases that have obstructed outflow is that you end up building a rig with a high but static pressure inside it. You can indeed get stagnation that way, and hotspots. Think bagpipe.
> 
> I want what I call a positive airflow. Ideally the pressure never builds because the air so freely leaves, so you don't get hot spots.


yah, too much positive pressure is inefficient and a waste of decibels. however in most cases, it's really hard to achieve too much pressure unless you are using high powered GT's or going into delta category fans typically there are sooo many leakage in a case that even with all intake fans, the case pressure is still fairly low. especially if you have reference design GPU's running full blast


----------



## Partol

This thread has been very helpful, especially the advice to remove the rear exhaust grill.

I applied this technique to my stock reference GTX 580 and got 5C drop in gpu temps at full load.

I removed the graphics card mounting bracket and cut out the small,thin metal pci slot divider.
5C drop in gpu temps at full load and less fan noise too







. gpu fan is still loud but is now less annoying (less high-pitch whine).
79C @ 79% gpu fan ---> 74C @ 74% gpu fan at full load while overclocked.

Currently, my graphics card is sitting on top of my sound card. it seems stable enough
Inserted a shim between the 2 cards, so that the graphics card does not bend downward.

This mod is so good that I cancelled plans to buy an aftermarket gpu cooler.
With unrestricted gpu exhaust, the stock gpu cooler is not bad.
Thanks to everyone for such great air cooling ideas.









In the attached picture, you can see I also mounted a 120mm fan outside the case, in order to pull air across the top of the graphics card. This only dropped gpu temps 1-2C at most. It's still a work in progress and needs improvement.


----------



## ehume

Silverstone is back at it:

Silverstone's Pushes Positive Pressure Cooling

And a user at Newegg:

Positive air flow vs. Negative air flows


----------



## solsamurai

So what do you think of the TJ04-E?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> So what do you think of the TJ04-E?


It's almost there. Top intake fans are nice. A bottom intake fan. Enough 5.25 slots for an additional intake fan.

The HD carriers are too busy for me. I like front-mounted USB ports. Overall, not enough flow-through.

I'd like to see more attention paid to the gpu space. With the 32.28/22nm process cpu's the gpu's are now the hottest parts of our computers.


----------



## solsamurai

That's about what I thought you'd say.







I love how the front looks though. At this rate I believe I'll be going with a 650D eventually. I've managed to get my Lancool K62 under control temp-wise so there's no rush. Now that I have a TY-150 in the middle I'm going to see how removing the front TY-140 will effect temps. It seems a bit redundant with the top intake and if I don't need it might as well take it out.

...oh, and still wanting to Nibbler away my rear grill. I feel almost obligated to do it now.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> That's about what I thought you'd say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love how the front looks though. At this rate I believe I'll be going with a 650D eventually. I've managed to get my Lancool K62 under control temp-wise so there's no rush. Now that I have a TY-150 in the middle I'm going to see how removing the front TY-140 will effect temps. It seems a bit redundant with the top intake and if I don't need it might as well take it out.
> 
> ...oh, and still wanting to Nibbler away my rear grill. I feel almost obligated to do it now.


I'm predicting you will find you like that push fan on the SA.

Once you've gotten rid of your grill you'll ask yourself why you waited so long. Next you'll attack those slot pillars.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> *I'm predicting you will find you like that push fan on the SA.*
> 
> Once you've gotten rid of your grill you'll ask yourself why you waited so long. Next you'll attack those slot pillars.


Sorry I didn't word my previous post correctly. This is what I've done with one of the TY-150s I bought about a month ago.



I was thinking of removing the TY-140 in front of the TY-150 in the 5.25' bay. Since I have a top front intake feeding air directly into the SA and the TY-150 further directing air flow it seems like the TY-140 in the 5.25' bay may not be needed.

EDIT: The pic doesn't show it but I also have another 140mm fan on the side panel blowing air directly at the GPU. I'm also going to try the old side panel with no fan mounts and see how it effects temps. Really enjoying the experimenting phase of this build now that I have a decent base setup.


----------



## chinesethunda

lol trust us, that rear grill is blocking so much air thats coming out of your SA and recirculating it back into the case, honestly, I think my simple CM Elite case with only 4 fans in it does much better than my Phantom thats water cooled with 10 fans. simple front to back works so well, I might need a stronger fan though, for pushing air to my GPU though. but simple is good


----------



## solsamurai

Definitely gong to get a Nibbler soon. Extra cash is pretty scarce for me these days.







How much time do you think I should set aside to cut out the rear mesh? I can't disassemble my rig when my son is up and running around, lol too dangerous. We don't have a balcony in our apartment otherwise I'd just do it there. I'm stuck leaving the guts on the kitchen table (on an anti-static mat) and cutting in the hallway.


----------



## psyclum

to be honest, your rear grill is pretty open already... and you removed all of your expansion slot covers so you aren't really having too much air flow recirculation problems IMO. what kind of temps are you trying to achieve?


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> to be honest, your rear grill is pretty open already... and you removed all of your expansion slot covers so you aren't really having too much air flow recirculation problems IMO. what kind of temps are you trying to achieve?


I'm actually happy with my temps as they are now. This is still without any OC on the CPU though. My wife likes the apartment a little on the warm side (25-26c) during the colder months. I'm would like to free the airflow as much as possible before trying anything. She understands the whole temp issue and then she doesn't, lol.


----------



## psyclum

well, so long as you understand there is diminishing returns on how cool you can make your system. as you approach ambient temp, it will be harder and harder to reduce your temps. Also remember computer parts DO heat up if you use them. it's designed that way. as long as it uses electricity, it'll heat up so it's abnormal to expect them to stay just a few degrees over ambient when you use the machine. remember, while 60c may seem hot to humans, it's not necessarily hot for computer parts..

current generation humans aren't made from silicon chips


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> well, so long as you understand there is diminishing returns on how cool you can make your system. as you approach ambient temp, it will be harder and harder to reduce your temps. Also remember computer parts DO heat up if you use them. it's designed that way. as long as it uses electricity, it'll heat up so it's abnormal to expect them to stay just a few degrees over ambient when you use the machine. remember, while 60c may seem hot to humans, it's not necessarily hot for computer parts..
> current generation humans aren't made from silicon chips


These things I am aware of good sir. I know my rig can take it.







It's fun to see how far I can go with air cooling efficiency in my current case.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Silverstone is back at it:
> 
> Silverstone's Pushes Positive Pressure Cooling


Damn...starting to wonder if I should get a Arc Midi or TJ04-E.


----------



## chinesethunda

Depending on how thick and dense the metal of your case is, and how tired you would get, I would say probably an hour or so tops, just for the rear grill, but also set aside time to take your parts out and stuff, if you know what you're doing and the parts inside, shouldn't take that long, maybe 2-3 hours tops for everything, I spent roughly that amount of time using the dremel to cut everything. And having no rear grill lowered my temps by at least a full 3C that was after i let p95 run for a while, at the start of the run, it was lowered by 6C


----------



## ihatelolcats

lol i cut my case with a plasma torch. FTW. took about 2 minutes


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Definitely gong to get a Nibbler soon. Extra cash is pretty scarce for me these days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How much time do you think I should set aside to cut out the rear mesh? I can't disassemble my rig when my son is up and running around, lol too dangerous. We don't have a balcony in our apartment otherwise I'd just do it there. I'm stuck leaving the guts on the kitchen table (on an anti-static mat) and cutting in the hallway.


15 - 20 minutes, after you drill your hole. Be sure to place your rig with the backplane down and the grill hanging out over a waste basket. Gravity is your friend here. Just chunks falling down -- no dust.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> to be honest, your rear grill is pretty open already... and you removed all of your expansion slot covers so you aren't really having too much air flow recirculation problems IMO. what kind of temps are you trying to achieve?


Unfortunately, the grill is NOT open. they all have holes that are so small that gentle breezes hardly waft through at all. There is major interaction between the edges of those holes.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ihatelolcats*
> 
> lol i cut my case with a plasma torch. FTW. took about 2 minutes


And how long for the cleanup? When I removed my slot pillars I didn't disassemble my rig -- I just let the backplane hang out over open air between the halves of my WorkMate. The only bit I removed was the vidcard, and then only because I was removing the slot pillars next to it.


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Unfortunately, the grill is NOT open. they all have holes that are so small that gentle breezes hardly waft through at all. There is major interaction between the edges of those holes.


well, as seen in his photo



the grill on the back of his case is in fact very thin already. in fact with grill that thin, he can easily just use wire cutters to cut them. granted he might need to grind down the rough edges afterwards, but as far as the cutting, it should be easy if he decides to do so. however I wouldn't consider a grill that thin to be much of a problem for recirculation of heat.


----------



## solsamurai

Thanks for the replies. I always like to take my time and go slow so I'll give it an hour just to be safe. I can place my case between two chairs to make the process easier to manage. I'll post pics in a few weeks. Should be able to order the Nibbler by then. I want to go that route over wire cutters for the cleanest cut possible.







I would like to see something like 2-3c drop in temps.







I took some better pics of my current setup with my wife's SLR and will post a couple as well. The holes in the rear mesh are larger than other cases and I can feel a good amount of air blowing out the back of the case. Can't wait to see what happens with the mesh removed.


----------



## chinesethunda

even though there are holes, the interaction like ehume said between the edges of the metal is huge, the metal between the holes in the back of my case was really thing too but even then i felt only a fraction of the air that is coming out now, the air bouncing back from the metal disrupts the other air flow trying to go out of the holes therefore creating a chain reaction that disrupts the entire air flow.


----------



## psyclum

what you are referring to is called back pressure and turbulence. it does cause resistance to airflow, however, not enough of it to cause recirculation of hot air. according to fluid dynamics, air will seek the path of lease resistance and shortest path. however due to the momentum caused by the noctua fan, there is sufficient pressure to push through what little back pressure is caused by the grill. even if it doesn't, air flow in 3 dimensions. which means any and all area with lower pressure will be a source of exhaust. in this case, it would be the 1st expansion slot just above his vid card as well as the 2 liquid cooling holes that is cut into the case to begin with.

if you look at the grand scheme of things in the way he has his system set up right now, the temp difference in HIS case would be less then 1C whether he cut the rear grill or not.


----------



## solsamurai

I can feel a great deal more air flowing out the tube holes vs the rear mesh. Wish I didn't have to wait so long to get the Nibbler!







Noctua fan? You mean the TY-140?


----------



## arrow0309

Let's say I decide to go for full positive pressure inside my old 690, that's because I have a cf of 6870's when my gpu1 (Msi Hawk) gets pretty hot when fully loaded.
This is my latest upgrade of the cpu cooler and some other fans:










http://www.xtremeshack.com/immagine/i132584_s6300610.jpg

You can see I have two NOISEBLOCKER BLACKSILENTFAN XK2 1100rpm top exhaust fans.
I did add a shroud (from an old fan) to the R4 rear fan in order to get the fan closer to the cpu cooler (I thougt it will improove the cooler's heat dissipation)









http://www.xtremeshack.com/immagine/i132642_s6300610.jpg

Some other pics:

http://www.xtremeshack.com/immagine/i132591_6870-hawk-cfx-02.jpg
http://www.xtremeshack.com/immagine/i132586_s6300618.jpg

And a 92mm 1600rpm kama-flex fan:
http://www.xtremeshack.com/immagine/i132583_vga-rear-fan.jpg

I just wouldn't like to remove the cooler (D14) again since I have reseated it allready three times in a week for better tim spread.
So, except the rear mesh cut what would you suggest me to do with my two NB 1100rpm top fans, now in exhaust position?
I also have a KAMA FLEX 135 - 1600 RPM, 100,5cfm intake fan on the side panel, the lower position. Can I only reverse to intake the first top 140mm fan (the one you suggest) but maintaining the other one as exhaust?


----------



## solsamurai

If you want positive pressure airflow flip both of those top exhaust fans to intake. One intake and one exhaust will only circulate warm air back into the case. It looks like your rig is in a very confined space. Or is that your couch?


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> If you want positive pressure airflow flip both of those top exhaust fans to intake. One intake and one exhaust will only circulate warn air back into the case. It looks like your rig is in a very confined space. This could also be why your temps aren't where you'd like them to be. All the hot air being exhausted from the case will be sucked right back in.


Ok, let's do it!


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Ok, let's do it!


----------



## miniterror

ok guys,
if possible i need a little advise
i dont have asmoke machine so cant test it and my fans are all on different places so i find it a little confusing.
i post this already in advance to sorta bookmark the thread
i will make some pics now and post them in a couple of minutes.
ill try to make as much as possible.
brb

edit:
ok taken a couple of pics.
in first you will see a pic of where the case stands.
dont mind the mess on the desk
also see the fan in the bottom, this fan is a 120mm intake.
the hdd is in the middle of the front intake fan so it cools the hdd
i think that whas good thinking


i strapped all the cables down as it isnt possible to let them go behind the mb.
as you can see i use a custom coller on the cpu wich is a scythe katana3.
i placed it so it blows to the back fan wich is a outtake.
also notice that my psu is in the top of the case with the fan on the downside.
the fan of the psu takes air from the case and spits it out on the back.


on the side panel i have 2 120mm fans
one is right on top of the videocard and the other right ontop of the cooler of the proc.
i have the top one as a intake with thoughts its always good to push outside air on the cpu and there is the back outtake and psu outtake fans also.
the lowest one is a outtake atm with the thoughts the front intake gets blown to the vid card(its a longer one so im not sure if the front intake also goes above the vidcard) and that lowest side and the dualfans of the vidcard itself take it out.


as last a pic of the back where it shows the 120mm outtake fan i putted there myself and the back of the psu wich also takes air from inside the case.
as you can see all the slots i dont use are closed with the brackets.


so do you guys think its okay?
im aksing this as i cant get my proc oc'd more then 3.8 because of heating and ive seen my vid card temps at 81c after a couple of hours gaming wich is to high
thanks in advance for youre thoughts.
for complete system specs lok at my sigrig


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miniterror*
> 
> ok guys,
> if possible i need a little advise
> i dont have asmoke machine so cant test it and my fans are all on different places so i find it a little confusing.
> i post this already in advance to sorta bookmark the thread
> i will make some pics now and post them in a couple of minutes.
> ill try to make as much as possible.
> brb


Let us know which fans are intake and which are exhaust. Typically in this thread most of us use all intake and no exhaust.


----------



## miniterror

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Let us know which fans are intake and which are exhaust. Typically in this thread most of us use all intake and no exhaust.


thanks mate,
i think there i a little lag or something in the forum as i edited my previous post with pics and info whats what a couple of min before i could see youre post:s
so as mentioned all info in my previous post


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miniterror*
> 
> thanks mate,
> i think there i a little lag or something in the forum as i edited my previous post with pics and info whats what a couple of min before i could see youre post:s
> so as mentioned all info in my previous post


1. Change both side panel fans to intake. You don't want warm air from the GPU circulating back up into the top fan.
2. Cut out rear fan mesh if possible. Air will more flow out the back more easily that way.
3. Remove the water cooling grommets at the bottom of your case. This will allow additional airflow out the back of the case. I did this and it noticeably helped. Refer to my post above for a picture.

Hope this helps!









EDIT: You can remove the unused PCI slot covers as well. Again see the picture I posted earlier for reference.


----------



## miniterror

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> 1. Change both side panel fans to intake. You don't want warm air from the GPU circulating back up into the top fan.
> 2. Cut out rear fan mesh if possible. Air will more flow out the back more easily that way.
> 3. Remove the water cooling grommets at the bottom of your case. This will allow additional airflow out the back of the case. I did this and it noticeably helped. Refer to my post above for a picture.
> Hope this helps!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: You can remove the unused PCI slot covers as well. Again see the picture I posted earlier for reference.


ok ill change them and try it out.
wont all that intake get extra dust in the case?
also not sure if i can cut out the grill of the back outtake fan as im not that pro with tools besides a screwdriver


----------



## Jcoffin1981

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> If you want positive pressure airflow flip both of those top exhaust fans to intake. One intake and one exhaust will only circulate warm air back into the case. It looks like your rig is in a very confined space. Or is that your couch?


This really works. My peak load temp (P95 Blend) at 5.1 GHz was 72C. I shaved off 4C by flipping the top exhaust to intake. I tried this once before and only saw a very minor improvement of about 1.5C or so. I made the mistake of not blocking off the second top vent. In turn my intake was recirculating some warm air.

Temps with 2 exhaust on top (4 cores)
1- 68C
2- 72-C
3- 69C
4- 67C

Temp with 1 intake and second blocked off (4 cores)
1- 64C
2- 68C
3- 65C
4- 63C


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miniterror*
> 
> ok ill change them and try it out.
> wont all that intake get extra dust in the case?
> also not sure if i can cut out the grill of the back outtake fan as im not that pro with tools besides a screwdriver


Positive pressure pushes air out through all the different openings in your case. Negative pressure sucks dust in from these openings. I have no dust filters on my side and top intakes and my rig doesn't get too bad. Dust it about once a month. If you get dust filters your rig will be even cleaner.







For the rear fan grill if you can find something like this all you need to do is drill the one hole and the rest is cake. I plan to do this myself for my rear grill.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jcoffin1981*
> 
> This really works. My peak load temp (P95 Blend) at 5.1 GHz was 72C. I shaved off 4C by flipping the top exhaust to intake. I tried this once before and only saw a very minor improvement of about 1.5C or so. I made the mistake of not blocking off the second top vent. In turn my intake was recirculating some warm air.
> Temps with 2 exhaust on top (4 cores)
> 1- 68C
> 2- 72-C
> 3- 69C
> 4- 67C
> Temp with 1 intake and second blocked off (4 cores)
> 1- 64C
> 2- 68C
> 3- 65C
> 4- 63C


Glad it worked out so well!


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miniterror*


your biggest problem is the location of the computer case itself.

as seen in your picture, your computer is placed between your desk and the couch (with a cat on top) if you look closely at how the air would flow and the temps are like OUTSIDE of the case you will know what i mean. you are creating a high pressure zone outside the rear of the computer (PSU exhaust, CPU exhaust, GPU exhaust) filled with warm air, and less then 3 inchs away you have 2 x 120mm fans creating a low pressure zone with the side panel intake fans. we all know convection means hot air flows up, however convection current isn't strong/fast enough to account for the difference between the high/low pressure zones you are creating with the limited semi closed off area of the wall/desk/couch. this means a good deal of the warm air will get sucked right back into the case by the side intake fans. I would strongly recommend you give at least 6 inches of clearance on the side panel fans and maybe 8 to 12 inches of clearance in the back of the machine to allow convection to work alittle better so the hot air can escape up to the top and reduce the recirculation of hot air.

the cat is a problem also since the fur it sheds gets sucked up by the 120mm fans on the side panel but i suspect you know this already


----------



## ehume

arrow 0309 - measure your net temps with:

Both top fans exhaust

Both top fans intake

Forward top fan intake, rearward top fan blocked off.

Go with whatever gives you the lowest temps.

miniterror -

Remove the unused slot covers. If you had a nibbler I'd tell you to remove the slot pillars as well

With the slot covers removed you can use some foam and adapt a fan to pull air out the back down by your gpu.


----------



## Greg1

Any suggestions on intake fans ? Currently I have two 140mm Fractal fans, which came with the case, but I'm not too happy with them- after under-volting they loose a lot of performance. Because of fan montage system in Fractal Arc Midi I have to use fans with standard frame, no Noctua P14 or Thermalright TY140.

edit:
I was thinking about SilverStone SST-AP141-UV 140mm


----------



## cre3d

GT-AP14's are fantastic as case fans. I use 3x AP-15's on my D14 and 4x AP-14 intake fans; Dead quiet at idle (all PWM controlled via rheobus).


----------



## Greg1

Won't fit, only 140mm in standard frame. This is the front of my case and in my opinion that's the weakest spot of it


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greg1*
> 
> Any suggestions on intake fans ? Currently I have two 140mm Fractal fans, which came with the case, but I'm not too happy with them- after under-volting they loose a lot of performance. Because of fan montage system in Fractal Arc Midi I have to use fans with standard frame, no Noctua P14 or Thermalright TY140.
> 
> edit:
> I was thinking about SilverStone SST-AP141-UV 140mm


I'd go with two of these NB BlackSilent Pro Fan PK3 1700rpm, or two Akasa Viper 140mm PWM Fan 1600rpm and a lot of cfm if you don't care about the fan colours or leds:



Or these Aerocool Shark Blue Edition LED Fan 1500rpm for a nice, blu led 140mm fan:


----------



## justanewguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greg1*
> 
> Any suggestions on intake fans ? Currently I have two 140mm Fractal fans, which came with the case, but I'm not too happy with them- after under-volting they loose a lot of performance. Because of fan montage system in Fractal Arc Midi I have to use fans with standard frame, no Noctua P14 or Thermalright TY140.
> edit:
> I was thinking about SilverStone SST-AP141-UV 140mm


take a look at the prolimatech 140mm vortex series. very quiet, real 140mm mounting and almost the same specs as TY140


----------



## miniterror

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> your biggest problem is the location of the computer case itself.
> as seen in your picture, your computer is placed between your desk and the couch (with a cat on top) if you look closely at how the air would flow and the temps are like OUTSIDE of the case you will know what i mean. you are creating a high pressure zone outside the rear of the computer (PSU exhaust, CPU exhaust, GPU exhaust) filled with warm air, and less then 3 inchs away you have 2 x 120mm fans creating a low pressure zone with the side panel intake fans. we all know convection means hot air flows up, however convection current isn't strong/fast enough to account for the difference between the high/low pressure zones you are creating with the limited semi closed off area of the wall/desk/couch. this means a good deal of the warm air will get sucked right back into the case by the side intake fans. I would strongly recommend you give at least 6 inches of clearance on the side panel fans and maybe 8 to 12 inches of clearance in the back of the machine to allow convection to work alittle better so the hot air can escape up to the top and reduce the recirculation of hot air.
> the cat is a problem also since the fur it sheds gets sucked up by the 120mm fans on the side panel but i suspect you know this already


thnaks for the laugh,
now i prob will make you laugh
the cat thingie isnt a real cat its just a decoration for my gf as i wont allow a real cat
so this wont leave hears in my comp
if it whas a real cat i wouldnt allow it to be on my comp:thumb:


as for the advise unfortionally i cant put my comp anywhere else deu to space limitations.
my desk is already against the wall and the couch on the other side of the wall.
as suggested i took out the watercoolingtube rubbers and the closing things for the pci slots.
i see a decrease in lowest temp while idle but unfortionally my max temp while running prime stayed the same
havent checked my videocard temp as i dont know a program for that.
any advise programs to stress my gpu so i can see if my gpu temp went lower as ive sen 81c after multiple hours of gaming.
ohh and +rep for the guys who replied me


----------



## justanewguy

PassMark / furmark is good for gpu stress testing


----------



## miniterror

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanewguy*
> 
> PassMark / furmark is good for gpu stress testing


Gracias.
Downloaded furmark as i already had passmark performance test.
With furmark it already reached 85c:-(
Could it be my vid card needs rma?
Gonna try it with the original vbios as i now have a be vbios but the cards look the same so i geuss that shoudnt matter

Verstuurd van mijn GT-S5570 met Tapatalk


----------



## justanewguy

the temps are pretty normal for a reference card.
the only chance to decrease gpu temp is by replacing the stock cooler with another high quality after market model like for example, arctic cooling, deepcool, alpenföhn and whatnot else. (50% less heat in my case due to another heatsink)


----------



## cre3d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greg1*
> 
> Won't fit, only 140mm in standard frame. This is the front of my case and in my opinion that's the weakest spot of it


Gah, 'twas late and my brain was not working enough to catch that, my apologies. The noiseblockers are your next best bet in this case.


----------



## ehume

140mm standard frame fans for intake:

I use a 14cm AeroCool Shark on its 7v adapter. It is quiet and moves air. I would not recommend it at 12v.

The Enermax T. B. Silent is quieter because of its low rpm. It does move air.

Blue/Red Vortex is nice, and probably the best compromise between noise and output. See item 2 in my sig, chapter 1

The TR 140mm X-Silent is comparable to the Vortex, but doesn't put out as much airflow.

In reviewing the tables in item 2 / ch 1, I can see that getting sound pressure measurements from the side is not the best way to measure noise for case fans. For example, you can definitely hear the difference between the Shark at 7v and the Vortex. I'll be testing face noise in a bit, but for now chapter 1 is all I have.


----------



## miniterror

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanewguy*
> 
> the temps are pretty normal for a reference card.
> the only chance to decrease gpu temp is by replacing the stock cooler with another high quality after market model like for example, arctic cooling, deepcool, alpenföhn and whatnot else. (50% less heat in my case due to another heatsink)


ok i think i found the prob.
sorry btw for kanging this thread for my probs.
i returned the vbios back to its original and it still got to 89c
strange thing is in there it shows the fan speed at 41%
shouldnt it run faster like 60~70% when it has those temps?:s

edit: its already the dualfan edition so it should cool better then the stock one right?


----------



## justanewguy

even tho that your card is using an improved heatsink with 2 fans, the temps are normal for such a "stock" model.
my 140mm fans are cooling my after market cooler @ 900rpm and it hits only 47° under max load! (while it was 80-90° under stock)


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miniterror*
> 
> thnaks for the laugh,
> now i prob will make you laugh
> the cat thingie isnt a real cat its just a decoration for my gf as i wont allow a real cat
> so this wont leave hears in my comp
> if it whas a real cat i wouldnt allow it to be on my comp:thumb:
> 
> as for the advise unfortionally i cant put my comp anywhere else deu to space limitations.
> my desk is already against the wall and the couch on the other side of the wall.
> as suggested i took out the watercoolingtube rubbers and the closing things for the pci slots.
> i see a decrease in lowest temp while idle but unfortionally my max temp while running prime stayed the same
> havent checked my videocard temp as i dont know a program for that.
> any advise programs to stress my gpu so i can see if my gpu temp went lower as ive sen 81c after multiple hours of gaming.
> ohh and +rep for the guys who replied me


ahh hehe cool.

as for the computer placement, you have 2 options that will improve upon your current configuration.

the 1st option is to place the computer further out from the wall. almost inline with the side of the couch. this way you increase the volume of the exhaust area in the back, AND you move the side intake more towards the front of the desk. basically, this gives more room in the back allowing more cool air to occupy the space behind the computer to mix with the hot exhaust air. this way it makes the average temp of the hot air in the back lower so even with recirculation you are only recirculating "warm" air not "hot" air. moving the side intake fan more towards the front of the desk allows the side intake fan more access to the cold air from the front of the desk instead of sucking air almost exclusively from the back where all the hot exhaust gases are. with the desk blocking the side panel fans, you are allowing air to come in from rear, top, and front to feed those fans. moving it more towards the front you allow more air to come in from the front(cold air) which should help with your overall cooling.

2nd option is to move the computer under the desk. since you do not have a top intake. the exhaust heat trapped by the desktop is less of an issue. this way you still have the problem of hot air trapped behind the computer, but at least you are allowing must better access to cold air for your side intake fans.


----------



## ihatelolcats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanewguy*
> 
> the temps are pretty normal for a reference card.
> the only chance to decrease gpu temp is by replacing the stock cooler with another high quality after market model like for example, arctic cooling, deepcool, alpenföhn and whatnot else. (50% less heat in my case due to another heatsink)


wouldnt a better heatsink mean more heat in your case?


----------



## miniterror

Psyclum,
Wont qoute as it will be to long then and it sucks to cut it on my lian phone.
Thanks for thinking with me but booth arent a option as i will hit the case with my deskchair
And if its under my desk my legs/feet are in the way
My appartment is only 40 square feet so space is verry limited
Geus my only option is to get another case if i want cooler temps or go watercooling.
Men what a dillemas as im also thinking going to the dark side(intel) and built a entire new comp.
Pffff i wish i never found this forum with all the nice guides and helpfull people.
Then i would never try ocing and looking at ways to optimize my comp

Verstuurd van mijn GT-S5570 met Tapatalk


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ihatelolcats*
> 
> wouldnt a better heatsink mean more heat in your case?


More efficient heatsinks help the GPU stay cooler than reference. If you have configured your airflow well your case temps won't get out of hand. That's why removing the PCI slot covers is a good idea if you have a non-reference GPU. My temps dropped 2-5c after I did that and installed a 140mm intake fan on the side panel.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> More efficient heatsinks help the GPU stay cooler than reference. If you have configured your airflow well your case temps won't get out of hand. That's why removing the PCI slot covers is a good idea if you have a non-reference GPU. My temps dropped 2-5c after I did that and installed a 140mm intake fan on the side panel.


Well, you should remove them anyways to prevent some blockage.

Would it be a smart idea to cut off the bars between each expansion slot since the cards only hold onto the top part of the bracket.


----------



## ehume

I call those bars slot pillars. They're dead easy to remove with my trusty nibbler.


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miniterror*
> 
> Thanks for thinking with me but booth arent a option as i will hit the case with my deskchair
> And if its under my desk my legs/feet are in the way


that's unfortunate.

however as it stands, there may still be some small improvements you can make to the system which would help. you can replace the scythe katana 3 with a hyper212 for a fairly reasonable price. even if it means the removal of the top 120mm side panel fan to allow for the height clearance, I think it would be worth it due to the fact that the effective cooling added by the side panel fan is partly diminished from warm air recirculation of the exhaust air anyway. with a larger heatsink surface area, more heatpipes, and the possibility of push/pull with 120mm fans, you should see some improvement to your cpu temps. i don't think your cpu is starved for cooling air even w/o the top 120mm side panel fan anyway. if you do decide to remove the top side panel fan, make sure you put a filter or something in place so you aren't just leaving a big gaping hole there for dust to get in


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I call those bars slot pillars. They're dead easy to remove with my trusty nibbler.


Seems really useful. Might as well get one of these instead of a dremel.

Would I be fine with this and a filer for most cuts (if I'm going to do anything, it'll just be the "pillars" and back exhaust)?

Edit: I almost typed in xacto knife for no reason.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I call those bars slot pillars. They're dead easy to remove with my trusty nibbler.
> 
> 
> 
> Seems really useful. Might as well get one of these instead of a dremel.
> 
> Would I be fine with this and a filer for most cuts (if I'm going to do anything, it'll just be the "pillars" and back exhaust)?
> 
> Edit: I almost typed in xacto knife for no reason.
Click to expand...

When I cut off my slot pillars the cuts were so clean I didn't bother filing them.

When I cut out my grills I had never heard of a nibbler. I cut them out with a side cutter. Nearly wore out my hands. then I had to straighten out the sheet metal with my lineman's pliers and with my channel-locks. Then I filed. Then I went over the edges with a special stone that is shaped and sized like a file. Then I did the exposed edges with a black paint marker. Whew! Had to strip the case bare to do the work.

When I cut the slot pillars all I removed was the vidcard. Then put the rig on its end, with the jaws of the Work Mate holding the top and bottom, leaving the middle exposed from below. The chips fell into a waste basket. I was done in minutes, and the only cleanup was to put the vidcard back.


----------



## chinesethunda

hmm that sounds interesting, I would remove the middle pillars on my cases but They are pretty much all taken up, so it wouldn't help too much in my case


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> When I cut off my slot pillars the cuts were so clean I didn't bother filing them.
> 
> When I cut out my grills I had never heard of a nibbler. I cut them out with a side cutter. Nearly wore out my hands. then I had to straighten out the sheet metal with my lineman's pliers and with my channel-locks. Then I filed. Then I went over the edges with a special stone that is shaped and sized like a file. Then I did the exposed edges with a black paint marker. Whew! Had to strip the case bare to do the work.
> 
> When I cut the slot pillars all I removed was the vidcard. Then put the rig on its end, with the jaws of the Work Mate holding the top and bottom, leaving the middle exposed from below. The chips fell into a waste basket. I was done in minutes, and the only cleanup was to put the vidcard back.


I'm sold. So I'll need a 7/16 drill bit (already have a drill), nibbler, tape (what kind should I use? Painter's tape?), and filer just in case I do something wrong. Not bad.


----------



## Mule928

I'm surprised I don't see more AZZA Hurrican cases. I haven't seen another case as well designed for airflow.


----------



## ehume

Just read a user note on that case. Seems that you have to go easy on the front fans or you will hear the air struggling to get through the front mesh.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> 3. Remove the water cooling grommets at the bottom of your case. This will allow additional airflow out the back of the case. I did this and it noticeably helped. Refer to my post above for a picture.
> 
> Hope this helps!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: You can remove the unused PCI slot covers as well. Again see the picture I posted earlier for reference.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> arrow 0309 - measure your net temps with:
> 
> Both top fans exhaust
> Both top fans intake
> Forward top fan intake, rearward top fan blocked off.
> 
> Go with whatever gives you the lowest temps.


Thanks guys, allready removed either the 2 water cooling grommets and all the unused PCI slot covers as well. The two NB 140mm top fans become intake fans (for now).








I'll let you know of the results soon.


----------



## scorpiontsi

So I am debating removing my exhaust fan (and grill) moving the fan to the bottom of the case pushing air in. Then it would be a completely positive pressure system. No exhaust and a ton of air coming in. The reason im debating it is my case is cooling so well and really not sure there would be much real benefit to the mods. Maybe Ill just order a fan for the fan mount infront of the psu and leave the exhaust as is. What do you guys think? My temps are very low for my OC. Mobo 30 or less and cpu idles under 30 caps around 70.


----------



## solsamurai

I'd say it's worth a try. You could see how it goes with the rear grill and fan gone. You may not need the fan and would have a quiter rig.


----------



## 161029

Try it. You can always switch back. Plus, the rear grill gone will always allow more air out.


----------



## scorpiontsi

I am thinking I will give this a go when I get a bit of time. Ill have to order a nibler and check that out as well. Own a dremel but I like seeing/trying new tools. Might just order a 120mm fan as well actually might order a few fans for possible mods. Would like one in front drive bay. Im not super concerned with looks but I am enjoying this virtually silent machine. I come from the days of the tornado ... still own it and still remember the noise it can produce lol... rather not go there again


----------



## chinesethunda

dremels are good and nice to use, but the nibbler is slightly cleaner and not as messy. I would still personally use the dremel, but thats just me. Also you will feel so much more air without the rear grill. Quiet honestly, I could just run my rig with just the fans on my hyper 212+, but since I can't hear the fans in the front of the case anyways, it doesn't matter lol


----------



## Jcoffin1981

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greg1*
> 
> Won't fit, only 140mm in standard frame. This is the front of my case and in my opinion that's the weakest spot of it


I used a 120mm Scythe fan and wire ties to secure it and it worked well. I then got a Scythe 140mm fan. Unfortunately it's frame was not standard and it did not fit well, so I again used the wire ties. Finally I used a Thermalright X-Silent 140mm fan and it fit perfectly. This fan however, is only rated at 900rpm. I was most happy with the Scythe 140mm fan.

Most fans you can still fit 2 of the 4 clips, and you can secure the other 2 with wire ties.


----------



## tmunn

Just fyi, Harbor Freight has those nibblers for cheap. They even have pneumatic ones.

http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=nibbler


----------



## solsamurai

That's not the Klein Nibbler, which is the preferred tool in this thread.







I've read elsewhere (or in this thread?) those tools aren't as well made.


----------



## chinesethunda

I have the nibbler cutter shown there off of amazon, it works, and its reliable, it just kinda hurts my hand after a while and metal pieces sometimes gets stuck in it if you don't make a clean cut. but otherwise if you just cut nice and clean and not hold it off kilter then it works pretty well


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> dremels are good and nice to use, but the nibbler is slightly cleaner and not as messy. I would still personally use the dremel, but thats just me. Also you will feel so much more air without the rear grill. Quiet honestly, I could just run my rig with just the fans on my hyper 212+, but since I can't hear the fans in the front of the case anyways, it doesn't matter lol


Look at item 2 in my sig. You'll enjoy it.


----------



## tmunn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> That's not the Klein Nibbler, which is the preferred tool in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've read elsewhere (or in this thread?) those tools aren't as well made.


I figured as much, seeing as how the whole tool costs half of what just the blade costs on that Klein one, lol. However, the tool does have a lifetime warranty and there is a B&M three miles away, so I'm going to give it a whirl.


----------



## solsamurai

Please do! It's a matter of personal preference on my part. The Klein Nibbler appears to be a higher quality tool than the others like it. I'll know for sure when I finally get a hold of one!


----------



## scorpiontsi

Yea harbor freight tools are not the best but I have used them in a pinch or when I knew I wasnt going to use the tool much, Have local access so going to check it out myself


----------



## ehume

Twenty years ago I needed a bunch of basic tools. Harbor Freight really helped me then. A variety of short-handled sledge hammers; a mini-pliers set; three sets of drills (numbered, lettered and English); pipe cutters; picks; end-grippers, magnetic and mechanical; a full-height 2HP multi-speed drill press; three-foot high pipe holder; three-foot high plank holder; portable table saw; probably other stuff I don't remember. All those things have made my life so much easier across the years.


----------



## arrow0309

Time to share my results of the cpu (4.2Ghz HT) and mainboard highest temps at full load on a CM690 with 4 intake fans, two rear fans, cpu cooler in sig. and the two top fans likewise:

*1. Initial: Two Top Exhaust
max core temps: 77 74 74 70*



*2. Second Test: Two Top Intake
max core temps: 77 73 73 70*



*3. Third Test: One Top Intake with Second Blocked
max core temps: 76 72 73 70*



All the times I used the same ambient temp @18°C, same settings for cpu, ram and chipset, fans at full rpm and the same (most) intensive cpu stress test, Linx v. 0.6.4 with the problem size of 25000.
As you can see, the recommended 1 top intake with the second blocked position wins this time too with slightly better cpu temps and nice mb & chipset temps. The two top intake fans would give me same temps as two exhaust but higher mb & chipset temps. And I still have to cut off the rear grill.









Now I'll have to do one last test, swapping the noisy Scythe Kama Flow 2 135mm @1600rpm side panel with the NB 140mm @1100rpm from the top blocked position. But first I need to test my two gpu's higher temps too.


----------



## chinesethunda

Good job testing, +1 for the info

@ehume, I had seen the second item in your sig many times, it was pretty much the reason I went with so few fans, I did however have just the 2 fans in the front because my front is not open enough and I didn't want to have my case open all the time, so a fan in the 5.25" bays and a front fan with the grill cut out helps bring cool air to my GPU and CPU.


----------



## 161029

@ arrow -


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> Good job testing, +1 for the info


Thanks









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> @ arrow -


What? Something's wrong?
Nice avatar, it's a short movie.


----------



## Cloudpost

Quick question everyone. Going to try a water black setup similar to the H50 series on my gpu. I am planning to mount the radiator on the bottom of my case

I am thinking i should suck the air down and out of my case instead of blowing hot radiator air into my case. is my logic correct here?



I feel like my gpu acts kind of like a partition seperating the top and bottom half of my case. The bottom front intake will feed my radiator, while my top intake will feed my cpu.

Thoughts?


----------



## chinesethunda

yeah but then the hot air gets sucked up by your PSU, which is no good either, maybe try putting it in the front blowing out? idk if it will reach though


----------



## Cloudpost

hmm... thats not a bad idea.. this way i can still have a bottom intake cooling my gpu vrms and stuff.

in that case.. maybe i should just switch all my fans so it goes from the back to the front.. interesting


----------



## solsamurai

Couple new pics of my current setup. Finally got around to uploading them.







Still looking around for a new case to try the TY-150s on the Silver Arrow. My Lancool K62 isn't wide enough.













The rear grill will be gone as soon as I have the extra cash for the Nibbler.


----------



## justanewguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Couple new pics of my current setup. Finally got around to uploading them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still looking around for a new case to try the TY-150s on the Silver Arrow. My Lancool K62 isn't wide enough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The rear grill will be gone as soon as I have the extra cash for the Nibbler.


looks good, did the same in my 5.25 area.
but i would put the dvd rom in the last spot, then you can put the ty150 in the top area to create a nice wind tunnel on the same height as your cpu cooler is.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Couple new pics of my current setup. Finally got around to uploading them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Still looking around for a new case to try the TY-150s on the Silver Arrow. My Lancool K62 isn't wide enough.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ... _cut_ ...
> 
> The rear grill will be gone as soon as I have the extra cash for the Nibbler.


Nice, gonna make some changes too.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanewguy*
> 
> looks good, did the same in my 5.25 area.
> but i would put the dvd rom in the last spot, then you can put the ty150 in the top area to create a nice wind tunnel on the same height as your cpu cooler is.


I have to keep the DVD drive there so my son can't reach it.







My GPU is getting some air from the TY-150 as well in it's current position.


----------



## chinesethunda

maybe it would be a good idea to barrier off your gpu from your cpu since your cyclone pushes the air all around the case


----------



## solsamurai

I have a side intake that blows directly on the GPU and out the open PCI slots.







Never gets above 60c under load.







I feel I have a good front to back flow now. I can feel a good amount of air blowing out the entire back plane.


----------



## chinesethunda

I'm just curious if you would get even better temps for your CPU if you separate it lol thats all


----------



## justanewguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> I have to keep the DVD drive there so my son can't reach it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My GPU is getting some air from the TY-150 as well in it's current position.


ahh i see


----------



## arrow0309

The max. I can get from my D14, now modded AP-29 (push) KM2-1700 center (added a Kama Flow 2-1600 under my dvd writer connectors to create a kind of wind tunnel):









*Before, with the R4 push fan*
*max core temps: 76 72 73 70*



*Now, with the AP-29*
*max core temps: 75 71 72 68*



Same ambient temp, settings, everything (except the fans); got a solid 1°C lower for the cpu cores and some 4°C improovment to the NB temp.


----------



## BBEG

Are you folks stripping components out before nibbling away? It's obviously the safest idea but the lazy in me needs to know if I can avoid it (would be a nonissue with a damned modular PSU, but guess what I don't have). Will draping some paper over the hardware work in lieu of removing the hardware from the workspace?


----------



## chinesethunda

if you are nibbling out the back, i would just take out the gpu and then put your case on top of something on its back and lean it over a trash can so you can just nibble it and then it will fall down


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BBEG*
> 
> Are you folks stripping components out before nibbling away? It's obviously the safest idea but the lazy in me needs to know if I can avoid it (would be a nonissue with a damned modular PSU, but guess what I don't have). Will draping some paper over the hardware work in lieu of removing the hardware from the workspace?


i donno man, doesn't take too many metallic flakes to short something out i suppose it depends on the machine. if it's an old POS i dont care about, i suppose i just use a damp cloth to catch the metal flakes, but if it's my main box, i'd definitely strip it before doing any kind of cutting.


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> The max. I can get from my D14, now modded AP-29 (push) KM2-1700 center (added a Kama Flow 2-1600 under my dvd writer connectors to create a kind of wind tunnel):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Before, with the R4 push fan*
> *max core temps: 76 72 73 70*
> *Now, with the AP-29*
> *max core temps: 75 71 72 68*
> Same ambient temp, settings, everything (except the fans); got a solid 1°C lower for the cpu cores and some 4°C improovment to the NB temp.


question is how many decibel did that cost you?


----------



## Herbie08

I have an APEVIA CORP. X-JUPITER-G-Type with 4 Scythe DFS123812-3000 120mm (133 CFM, two rear exhaust, one side intake and one top intake) a Thermaltake A2018 120mm (93.7 CFM) in the front bottom intake and a case stock fan intake in the 5.25 bay. When everything is turned up full blast it sounds like vacuum cleaner, but I don't really mind the sound too much. My Klipsch Promedia Ultra sound system usually drowns it out easily enough.

Is that a good set up for my system or do you think I should switch the fans around a little? I'm hoping that with 4 intakes and 2 exhausts my system officially qualifies as a positive pressure system, but I'll be honest I'm certainly no expert on airflow. I basically just got the most powerful fans I could find on newegg and bought as many as would fit in my case! Shame on me?


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> The max. I can get from my D14, now modded AP-29 (push) KM2-1700 center (added a Kama Flow 2-1600 under my dvd writer connectors to create a kind of wind tunnel):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Before, with the R4 push fan*
> *max core temps: 76 72 73 70*
> *Now, with the AP-29*
> *max core temps: 75 71 72 68*
> Same ambient temp, settings, everything (except the fans); got a solid 1°C lower for the cpu cores and some 4°C improovment to the NB temp.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> question is how many decibel did that cost you?
Click to expand...

With all the fans maxed out you can count the extra decibels.








However I found different ways to downvolt them according to what I need to do. When I'm only browsing the web, there is really less sound left.


----------



## tmunn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BBEG*
> 
> Are you folks stripping components out before nibbling away? It's obviously the safest idea but the lazy in me needs to know if I can avoid it (would be a nonissue with a damned modular PSU, but guess what I don't have). Will draping some paper over the hardware work in lieu of removing the hardware from the workspace?


Better safe than sorry, one stray speck of metal can ruin your day. Whenever I do any cutting on/in the case, I like to tear it down and give it a boot camp style cleaning.


----------



## chinesethunda

both times when I cut my cases I took everything out, if it weren't for my loop it would be easy to put everything back in


----------



## ehume

I wish I had taken a picture.

First of all, I removed my graphics card. Then I took my rig to my Workmate.

Picture one of these:



I opened mine to its widest position, and put my case on it with the PCIE slot in the middle.

I then reached up between the jaws of the Workmate and nibbled away at the slot pillars. The metal chips mostly fell into a wastebasket I put underneath. Some hit the floor. I let gravity do its job. Nibbler chips are large enough to fall. Not like dust.

If I was cutting out my rear grill I'd simply hang the upper part of the back of my rig over the edge of a workbench, with a wastebasket under it.


----------



## solsamurai

That's way I plan on doing with my rear grill. Finally ordering the Nibbler!


----------



## chinesethunda

lol thought you had it, I guess its that time huh? you will see the world of difference lol


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> lol thought you had it, I guess its that time huh? you will see the world of difference lol


Lol, I know. My extra cash flow has been exactly $0 for a couple months.







I'm hoping for at least a 2-3c drop.


----------



## ihatelolcats

they should rename this the nibbler thread am i right


----------



## solsamurai

Someone could start a Nibblers club.


----------



## ehume

I'll let one of you do that.


----------



## solsamurai

I just might after I get mine.







There's one for the Datavacs so why not?


----------



## chinesethunda

Lol I can start it if you guys don't mind, we can include all nibblers?


----------



## solsamurai

Sounds good to me. I would think a focus on the Klein Nibbler would be nice. It's clearly a _cut_ above the rest.









Oh god, my terrible puns are seeping into my OCN posts!


----------



## chinesethunda

haha, I made a thread, link is in my sig, I put the 2 main ones up there since the other nibbler is pretty popular too, or at least on google images it is lol


----------



## solsamurai

Whoo! I'll be joining soon!


----------



## 161029

I was bored and just noticed Cougar sold fans. I don't trust rated specs but from the napkin math I've done, they actually have pretty great fans.

Would join but I has no nibbler.


----------



## chinesethunda

lol its time to get one haha


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> lol its time to get one haha


I still have to find one here in Italy. Otherwise I'll have to use a big hole saw for the rear cut:


----------



## solsamurai

Oh wow that would be messy.


----------



## chinesethunda

lol, idk if thats overkill or just..... awesome lol


----------



## scorpiontsi

I have some large hole saws as well but I think you may run into issues with pressure required to get a bite as well as paint chipping. Maybe if you backed it with wood and taped the edges but I still tend to think they would make for a messy cut. Friend told me he has a nibbler just need to borrow it and Ill start modding my case. Considering replacing the large fan on side of case with 4 fans and moving it inside (infront of the drive bays). Will be doing some work tomorrow with reseating heatsink and possibly lapping processor a little bit. Any of you guys know if that voids the intel tuning warranty? If so then I won't lol ..


----------



## ehume

I tried cutting my case with a circle saw. Fail.

I have hole saws, none anywhere near big enough for a fan hole. I think they're not made for thin sheet steel.


----------



## ihatelolcats

i used a hole saw on my steel case for a 120mm fan. would not recommend but if that's all you have available it works.


----------



## mksteez

So top case fans are better as intake or exhaust?


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mksteez*
> 
> So top case fans are better as intake or exhaust?


entirely depends on what case you have, what fans you have installed, and where the case will be located.


----------



## Mule928

As long as heat still rises, exhaust.


----------



## Mule928

So are you guys seeing reduced temps by just removing the grid behind the rear exhaust fan?


----------



## justanewguy

hell yeah, dropped temps by 2-4°.
since its ridiculous cold (and my ambient varies) here at the moment i cant tell you the exact value but the air coming out feels like twice as much. its worth it

"just do it!"


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mule928*
> 
> So are you guys seeing reduced temps by just removing the grid behind the rear exhaust fan?


as long as you don't have a roach problem the grill is there to keep things out of your case whatever they may be, but mainly fingers and roachs


----------



## chinesethunda

I have a finger guard over my rear exhaust where I cut the hole so mothing really gets in
also for top fans, it depends, hot air rises doesn't make a bit of difference when it comes to fans, you would have to test it out yourself, one time I had the top front intake and the top rear exhaust


----------



## ehume

I'll admit I didn't cut that one, but you can see the effect of an open space and a finger guard.

Here's an earlier case:



Oh yes: hot air rises, but even a weak fan is much stronger. Bringing air down from the top of the case presents fresh air to the heatsink and keeps the gpu's hot output from rising where it can be ingested by the cpu cooler.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Oh yes: hot air rises, but even a weak fan is much stronger. Bringing air down from the top of the case presents fresh air to the heatsink and keeps the gpu's hot output from rising where it can be ingested by the cpu cooler.


THIS.


----------



## chinesethunda

thanks ehume for a good explanation, now i have something better to say when people say heat rises


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> thanks ehume for a good explanation, now i have something better to say when people say heat rises


It is written right under his name:

*"Air goes where yu push it"*









Although I improve the push effect (vga ext. area) with a small good (92mm-1600rpm) pull rear fan. So it's a sort of _"push'n pull"_


----------



## hansen6

[/URL]

nzxt-phantom-410-sideoff.jpg 148k .jpg file


Hi guys, I've been reading threads and threads regarding airflow and cases and I've come up with a lousy sketch of what might happen to airflow in my set up. I chose the phantom 410 because it has a nice little window to look at my stuff while still allowing a side fan, and yes it's the same superficial reason for which i've decided to go with a h80 or antec 920 over a D14 (the 920 is $139 vs $169 for the h80 here in Singapore, Corsair stuff is just so expensive, same with the PSUs, it's $229 for seasonic X850W vs $259 for Corsair AX850W. 1 USD is about 1.25 SGD)

So taking Ehume's advice on top intake and positive pressure, I have 6 intake fans and 1 h80/antec 920 acting as an exhaust. If possible, i intend to mount the first fan on the outside of the rear fan panel, then the radiator and then the 2nd fan to allow more space in my chassis.Might also cut the rear fan grill to allow better airflow between fan and radiator. So if [O] is the radiator with 2 fans and | is the rear fan panel, it will be [|O] instead of |[O]

For the other fans i'm thinking of Scythe slipstreams / s flex or Yate Loon's D12SH-12/14s.

Does anyone have any better suggestions regarding the fan positions? I'm quite decided on the phantom 410 its a sleek little case and reasonably priced. Also thanks for all that insightful information, great job Ehume and you other guys =)


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hansen6*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/URL]
> 
> nzxt-phantom-410-sideoff.jpg 148k .jpg file
> 
> 
> Hi guys, I've been reading threads and threads regarding airflow and cases and I've come up with a lousy sketch of what might happen to airflow in my set up. I chose the phantom 410 because it has a nice little window to look at my stuff while still allowing a side fan, and yes it's the same superficial reason for which i've decided to go with a h80 or antec 920 over a D14 (the 920 is $139 vs $169 for the h80 here in Singapore, Corsair stuff is just so expensive, same with the PSUs, it's $229 for seasonic X850W vs $259 for Corsair AX850W. 1 USD is about 1.25 SGD)
> 
> So taking Ehume's advice on top intake and positive pressure, I have 6 intake fans and 1 h80/antec 920 acting as an exhaust. If possible, i intend to mount the first fan on the outside of the rear fan panel, then the radiator and then the 2nd fan to allow more space in my chassis.Might also cut the rear fan grill to allow better airflow between fan and radiator. So if [O] is the radiator with 2 fans and | is the rear fan panel, it will be [|O] instead of |[O]
> 
> For the other fans i'm thinking of Scythe slipstreams / s flex or Yate Loon's D12SH-12/14s.
> 
> Does anyone have any better suggestions regarding the fan positions? I'm quite decided on the phantom 410 its a sleek little case and reasonably priced. Also thanks for all that insightful information, great job Ehume and you other guys =)


I think I would not recommend that setup. You will end up with a positive pressure case, not a positive flow case. Although the positive pressure setup has the advantage of your being able to filter every air input, the air can stagnate and the temps will go up. All the temps. Positive pressure rigs have demonstrated higher temps than negative pressure rigs.

What's the difference between positive pressure and positive flow? The latter is a flow-through case where the flow comes from push and no pull.

Your setup has a rad and a fan as your only exit. Rads restrict airflow. To match the input of your six input fans you would need a monstrous fan or fans on that rad.

To make your system work you will need to completely remove all unused slot covers, and the slot pillars between them. Then your H80 will be fed by the upper intake fans. Your gpu(s) will be cooled by the air flowing past them, and with a completely open backplane you would have your flow-through ideal -- no pressure buildup.

As a cherry on top you could remove the rear grill and allow your H80 a small improvement in efficiency.


----------



## hansen6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I think I would not recommend that setup. You will end up with a positive pressure case, not a positive flow case. Although the positive pressure setup has the advantage of your being able to filter every air input, the air can stagnate and the temps will go up. All the temps. Positive pressure rigs have demonstrated higher temps than negative pressure rigs.
> 
> What's the difference between positive pressure and positive flow? The latter is a flow-through case where the flow comes from push and no pull.
> 
> Your setup has a rad and a fan as your only exit. Rads restrict airflow. To match the input of your six input fans you would need a monstrous fan or fans on that rad.
> 
> To make your system work you will need to completely remove all unused slot covers, and the slot pillars between them. Then your H80 will be fed by the upper intake fans. Your gpu(s) will be cooled by the air flowing past them, and with a completely open backplane you would have your flow-through ideal -- no pressure buildup.
> 
> As a cherry on top you could remove the rear grill and allow your H80 a small improvement in efficiency.


Damn, i thought i had it nailed! I totally agree with the removing of the rear grill, but i'm not sure if i would cut the pillars between the slot pillars. I guess I could always swap the top intakes to top exhausts instead, with 4 intake fans and 3 exhausts(including 1 radiator exhaust), there would still be positive air pressure.

I could also use the h80 as a top intake fan, the first one, so that the exhaust from it will be exhausted from the chassis by the rear fan quickly.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hansen6*
> 
> Damn, i thought i had it nailed! I totally agree with the removing of the rear grill, but i'm not sure if i would cut the pillars between the slot pillars. I guess I could always swap the top intakes to top exhausts instead, with 4 intake fans and 3 exhausts(including 1 radiator exhaust), there would still be positive air pressure.
> 
> I could also use the h80 as a top intake fan, the first one, so that the exhaust from it will be exhausted from the chassis by the rear fan quickly.


If you are going to move the H80, might as well make it rear top intake. I don't think it will reach the forward top. If you remove the rear grill there is no need for any exhaust fan. Or you could make the forward top fan an exhaust. The whole point of having a forward top intake is to provide fresh air to a heatsink. You have a rad that will be getting its air directly from the outside.

But the point of the exercise is to avoid pressure buildup. With an open space where the rear grill used to be you will get flow, not pressure. That will assure cooler RAM and gpu temps.


----------



## hansen6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> If you are going to move the H80, might as well make it rear top intake.I don't think it will reach the forward top. If you remove the rear grill there is no need for any exhaust fan. Or you could make the forward top fan an exhaust. The whole point of having a forward top intake is to provide fresh air to a heatsink. You have a rad that will be getting its air directly from the outside.
> 
> But the point of the exercise is to avoid pressure buildup. With an open space where the rear grill used to be you will get flow, not pressure. That will assure cooler RAM and gpu temps.


I'm sorry i'm a little bit confused, so you're saying i should keep the original set up with H80 exhausting, top rear intake, top forward exhaust?
Or
h80 rear top intake, no rear grill/fan, top exhaust?

I looked at some more videos, the HAF932 looks pretty good too but its quite a bit more expensive, though that isn't the main drawback. If i got that i would probably have to spend quite a bit more getting 230mm fan filters because the HAF932 doesn't have filters for its 230mm front and side intake, nor the bottom psu/fan intakes. Options options options.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hansen6*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> If you are going to move the H80, might as well make it rear top intake.I don't think it will reach the forward top. If you remove the rear grill there is no need for any exhaust fan. Or you could make the forward top fan an exhaust. The whole point of having a forward top intake is to provide fresh air to a heatsink. You have a rad that will be getting its air directly from the outside.
> 
> But the point of the exercise is to avoid pressure buildup. With an open space where the rear grill used to be you will get flow, not pressure. That will assure cooler RAM and gpu temps.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sorry i'm a little bit confused, so you're saying i should keep the original set up with H80 exhausting, top rear intake, top forward exhaust?
> Or
> h80 rear top intake, no rear grill/fan, top exhaust?
> 
> I looked at some more videos, the HAF932 looks pretty good too but its quite a bit more expensive, though that isn't the main drawback. If i got that i would probably have to spend quite a bit more getting 230mm fan filters because the HAF932 doesn't have filters for its 230mm front and side intake, nor the bottom psu/fan intakes. Options options options.
Click to expand...

Setup 1: H80 intake, top rear, grill removed, no fan there. Forward top position -- anything you like (intake, exhaust, no fan, blocked).

Setup 2: H80 rear exhaust, top fans exhaust.

etc.


----------



## hansen6

Alright tyvm! hopefully i'll be able to share some results here in the following months =)


----------



## Pott

I have a few questions, which will probably just show how much of a noob I am:

I have three fans in my Fractal R3. 1 front intake, 1 bottom intake, 1 rear exhaust, a Silver Arrow on the CPU and a GTX560ti Hawk.

I get more than good enough temps with the fans all off (I have a fan controller). My ambient temperature is above 20C and the CPU is usually at about 30 to 35C.
When I game I put the front + rear fans at 40% but I don't do much temperate monitoring, it's more of a reassurance thing. I don't touch the bottom fan as it's vibrating, I need to isolate it with rubber pads.

I have my CPU OCed to 4.4Ghz. My GPU has no OCing headroom so it's not overclocked. I reach no dangerous temperatures at all when I game, my overclock's stable... no issues at all, no over-heating. And this with either no fans or just two fans on.

So... why do I see a lot of cases with such huge amount of fans? How can setups be quiet this way? Furthermore I always hear watercooling is quieter, but in my case it's the fans that make the most nopise and watercooling requires (from what I've seen) a lot of cases; is it then only suitable for extreme overclocking?

So there... I hope that's not ignorant... but I'm curous







thanks y'all!


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pott*
> 
> I have a few questions, which will probably just show how much of a noob I am:
> 
> I have three fans in my Fractal R3. 1 front intake, 1 bottom intake, 1 rear exhaust, a Silver Arrow on the CPU and a GTX560ti Hawk.
> 
> I get more than good enough temps with the fans all off (I have a fan controller). My ambient temperature is above 20C and the CPU is usually at about 30 to 35C.
> When I game I put the front + rear fans at 40% but I don't do much temperate monitoring, it's more of a reassurance thing. I don't touch the bottom fan as it's vibrating, I need to isolate it with rubber pads.
> 
> I have my CPU OCed to 4.4Ghz. My GPU has no OCing headroom so it's not overclocked. I reach no dangerous temperatures at all when I game, my overclock's stable... no issues at all, no over-heating. And this with either no fans or just two fans on.
> 
> So... why do I see a lot of cases with such huge amount of fans? How can setups be quiet this way? Furthermore I always hear watercooling is quieter, but in my case it's the fans that make the most nopise and watercooling requires (from what I've seen) a lot of cases; is it then only suitable for extreme overclocking?
> 
> So there... I hope that's not ignorant... but I'm curous
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thanks y'all!


Hmm. 2500K. No hyperthreading. That's good for at least 10c.

Hmm. Silver Arrow. One of the very best heatsinks.

Hmm. Ambient of 20c. Lots of room for temps -- it would take a 60c TOA to get you up to 80c.

And what Vcore are you using?


----------



## Pott

I didn't touch my VCore. I used the motherboard pre-set setting for the the 44 multiplier.

20C ambient is a low estimation, in the winter it's closer to 25C, but with your explanations that wouldn't make much of a difference.
I didn't get much higher temps with my old Hyper 212+. In fact I still didn't use the fans much with it.

I understand though that it's all down to what temperatures the users want. I'm perfectly ok sacrificing 5C for a quieter PC and I'm definitely ok with people not wanting so. I'm just wondering whether my understanding was correct indeed.


----------



## ehume

I have five intake fans, but I keep them all under 1000 rpm, mostly around 800 rpm. The only exception is the top intake, that revs up from 600 rpm at idle to 1300 rpm on load. But then, I have an i7 875k, which runs pretty hot (HT on, for example). And since my D14 has been on my test bench for a year and a half, I've been using a Mugen 2, which is barely enough on load, keeping the hottest cores to the high 70's. It's a good cooler but it's not in the same league as a D14 or a SA.

Bottom line is that many people operate rigs that need really need excellent cooling. And the best way to improve a heatsink's cooling is to feed it cool air to work on. Ditto graphics cards. So that's why you see cases with many fans.

In future few will need big heatsinks for moderate oc's. But if you really push it, keeping your temps down is a good way to preserve your cpu.


----------



## adridu59

Hi all,

I just got the Fractal Design Core 3000. Here's my current airflow config :


I have problems with GPU temp : after booting it idles at 39°C (normal idle temp) but then the temperature rises slowly to 60°C so it seems to me like air is stagnating.

Any idea ?








I was thinking on moving rear fan to the bottom as intake...


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59*
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I just got the Fractal Design Core 3000. Here's my current airflow config :
> 
> 
> I have problems with GPU temp : after booting it idles at 39°C (normal idle temp) but then the temperature rises slowly to 60°C so it seems to me like air is stagnating.
> 
> Any idea ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking on moving rear fan to the bottom as intake...


You may wanna try to switch to intake fan the 140mm Fractal one (side panel). Also removing all your pci slot covers will improve furthermore. Didn't get the point with your top fans.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> You may wanna try to switch to intake fan the 140mm Fractal one (side panel). Also removing all your pci slot covers will improve furthermore.


I didn't set the side fan as intake because I thought it would blow in opposite to the video card's cooler (see picture below) but I'm gonna try this.



Okay, I'll try to remove PCI covers too.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Didn't get the point with your top fans.


Well there is no top fans and I blocked the slots.

Thank you. I'll see if your suggestions improve temps. +rep


----------



## solsamurai

I would try an intake in the top front slot as well. It will help increase the positive pressure airflow and with your PCI slot covers gone should help more air push out the back. Side intake works better for cards that exhaust into the case. My card dumps all its warm air into my case as well. My temps noticeably decreased after removing the slot covers and installing a side intake.









...oh yeah, and removing your rear mesh with a Nibbler would greatly increase the amount of air that can exit your case. You may not even need the rear fan like several others in this thread.


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> You may wanna try to switch to intake fan the 140mm Fractal one (side panel). Also removing all your pci slot covers will improve furthermore. Didn't get the point with your top fans.


what he said. also the temp you are getting for the GPU is abnormal given your current thermal configuration and may indicate a TIM problem. have you reseated your accelero? having the side panel as intake will absolutely help with your gpu temp tho personally i would only remove 2 of the pci slot covers (the one above and one below the gpu). this way, you don't lose too much pressure in the process and you are also directing the airflow to go around the gpu to remove the heated air just as they come off the cooler.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> I would try an intake in the top front slot as well. It will help increase the positive pressure airflow and with your PCI slot covers gone should help more air push out the back. Side intake works better for cards that exhaust into the case. My card dumps all its warm air into my case as well. My temps noticeably decreased after removing the slot covers and installing a side intake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...oh yeah, and removing your rear mesh with a Nibbler would greatly increase the amount of air that can exit your case. You may not even need the rear fan like several others in this thread.


Thanks +rep
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> what he said. also the temp you are getting for the GPU is abnormal given your current thermal configuration and may indicate a TIM problem. have you reseated your accelero? having the side panel as intake will absolutely help with your gpu temp tho personally i would only remove 2 of the pci slot covers (the one above and one below the gpu). this way, you don't lose too much pressure in the process and you are also directing the airflow to go around the gpu to remove the heated air just as they come off the cooler.


Its not an Accelero, its a Windforce. I have changed TIM a couple of months ago.

I have set side fan as intake and it lowered my temps by 4°C.









In fact, my idle temps are indeed 39°C : the card was set in maximum performance mode, so it wasn't downclocking thus the 60°C.. +rep


----------



## ehume

Found another good case for air cooling: "The PC-90 is an air-cooling case first and foremost." The reviewer called it a "straightforward wind tunnel design."


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Found another good case for air cooling: "The PC-90 is an air-cooling case first and foremost." The reviewer called it a "straightforward wind tunnel design."


Nifty little case right there! good find.


----------



## solsamurai

Lol, I was looking into that case a week ago.







Should have posted here.


----------



## Paradigm84

I personally have the HAF-X and it is a very good case for cooling, also suprisingly quiet compared to my old Antec 900. I also hear the Antec Lanboy series are excellent if you have all the fans blowing air into the case, and because of the mesh design a rear fan blowing air out of the case isn't necessary.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> I personally have the HAF-X and it is a very good case for cooling, also suprisingly quiet compared to *my old Antec 900*. I also hear the Antec Lanboy series are excellent if you have all the fans blowing air into the case, and because of the mesh design a rear fan blowing air out of the case isn't necessary.


Ohh god...don't get me started on that overpriced heap of useless scrap metal. Its about as useless as nipples on men I think.....ulg...I have to take my Antec 902 HDD cage's apart to clean the wife's PC some time soon......

EDIT: wow, this case actually brings out rage in me...


----------



## solsamurai

Indeed it does.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Indeed it does.


"Thank's Teal'c"


----------



## Paradigm84

Yeah it wasn't very good in retrospect, it was incredibly loud yet didn't keep anything cool, however it was my first gaming PC back when I didn't know anything about computers and now I've got a much better case







How do you think the HAF-X will look with white LED fans?


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> I would try an intake in the top front slot as well. It will help increase the positive pressure airflow and with your PCI slot covers gone should help more air push out the back. Side intake works better for cards that exhaust into the case. My card dumps all its warm air into my case as well. My temps noticeably decreased after removing the slot covers and installing a side intake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *...oh yeah, and removing your rear mesh with a Nibbler would greatly increase the amount of air that can exit your case. You may not even need the rear fan like several others in this thread.*


If we could just find this Nibbler here in Europe. Someone's got to have it, I only couldn't find it in Italy (yet). And it's the last thing I have to mod to my present case.

@aridu59. Thanks for the rep, how about giving the nibler a try, searching yourself too, maybe in France you'll manage to find it.


----------



## justanewguy

edited: sorry for double post but the editing script seems to be broken


----------



## justanewguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Yeah it wasn't very good in retrospect, it was incredibly loud yet didn't keep anything cool, however it was my first gaming PC back when I didn't know anything about computers and now I've got a much better case
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you think the HAF-X will look with white LED fans?


white leds on haf-x should be a beast, thought about getting some either. the nzxt led strips seem to be pretty



here is how it can look like

http://www.overclock.net/t/981696/nzxt-sleeved-led-lighting-job-in-a-haf-932

they are sleeved, different lengths, cheap and available in different colours.
get them from here 6$ - 12$ / 1 meter

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> If we could just find this Nibbler here in Europe. Someone's got to have it, I only couldn't find it in Italy (yet). And it's the last thing I have to mod to my present case.
> @aridu59. Thanks for the rep, how about giving the nibler a try, searching yourself too, maybe in France you'll manage to find it.


i bought if off ebay, there are some us sellers that ship worldwide. it costs a bit more but not much since its a very small parcel


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> I would try an intake in the top front slot as well. It will help increase the positive pressure airflow and with your PCI slot covers gone should help more air push out the back. Side intake works better for cards that exhaust into the case. My card dumps all its warm air into my case as well. My temps noticeably decreased after removing the slot covers and installing a side intake.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *...oh yeah, and removing your rear mesh with a Nibbler would greatly increase the amount of air that can exit your case. You may not even need the rear fan like several others in this thread.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we could just find this Nibbler here in Europe. Someone's got to have it, I only couldn't find it in Italy (yet). And it's the last thing I have to mod to my present case.
> 
> @aridu59. Thanks for the rep, how about giving the nibler a try, searching yourself too, maybe in France you'll manage to find it.
Click to expand...

Klein's product page is here: 

They have pages to find distributors, including international ones (unfortunately the Italy button is linked to the France page). Amazon has it too (search page). If worst comes to worst you can have it and a spare blade shipped from the US (I got mine here). Is there an Amazon Italia?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> I personally have the HAF-X and it is a very good case for cooling, also suprisingly quiet compared to my old Antec 900. I also hear the Antec Lanboy series are excellent if you have all the fans blowing air into the case, and because of the mesh design a rear fan blowing air out of the case isn't necessary.


Once upon a time my old Dell died, and Dell told me it would take four weeks to get a new one. I decided I could build one quicker. After two nights research after work I had discovered review sites (but not forums; not yet), decided on a cpu (i7 860) a motherboard (GA-P55M-UD2), and a HD, all of which were great choices. I didn't have time to spin up to speed on cases and PSU's so I decided on an NSK 4480 II. Since I had also discovered Newegg, I bought it all there. My first rig.

I learned that Antec will build cases they should have stopped building years ago. I learned that Newegg will sell them. I learned that Antec's rep cannot be relied on: without a set of reviews I will buy none of their products. Actually, that's true for most companies: reputations mean little.

You can see my various responses to that lesson in my sig.


----------



## ehume




----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> @adridu59. Thanks for the rep, how about giving the nibler a try, searching yourself too, maybe in France you'll manage to find it.


Not now. Just got my case so I don't want to "butcher" it for now.


----------



## chinesethunda

I think it looks better without a rear grill, Although I will admit if you don't do a nice job it might look bad though. the rear grill of my phantom looks a little botched lol but then again it was harder to cut cuz it was raised from the case and its harder to cut an angled metal

also in regards to cases, tbh i found the older simple cases with just a front intake and rear exhaust to be fairly efficient, like my old cm elite, it cools my cpu just fine


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> I think it looks better without a rear grill, Although I will admit if you don't do a nice job it might look bad though. the rear grill of my phantom looks a little botched lol but then again it was harder to cut cuz it was raised from the case and its harder to cut an angled metal
> 
> also in regards to cases, tbh i found the older simple cases with just a front intake and rear exhaust to be fairly efficient, like my old cm elite, it cools my cpu just fine


With a nibbler you can trim back that angled metal until it is flush with the case wall. I've used side cutters and my nibbler. The nibbler is the right tool for this job.


----------



## justanewguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59*
> 
> Not now. Just got my case so I don't want to "butcher" it for now.


seriously who cares about a case if you cut the grill out? its still the same tower.
its totally worth it, believe me, i was afraid either when i read ehumes thread where he talked about the nibbler but then i decided to do the same.

you dont see the back of your rig anyway that often and even if you look at it, it dont look wrong...so just do it


----------



## Paradigm84

Quote:


> white leds on haf-x should be a beast, thought about getting some either. the nzxt led strips seem to be pretty


I was actually going for just white LED fans at the moment (Bitfenix Spectre Pro are the contenders at the moment) however now that you mention it LED strips would look pretty sweet. I'm not familiar with connecting the LED strips though, does it require an inverter box type thing like the cathodes do?


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanewguy*
> 
> seriously who cares about a case if you cut the grill out? its still the same tower.
> its totally worth it, believe me, i was afraid either when i read ehumes thread where he talked about the nibbler but then i decided to do the same.
> you dont see the back of your rig anyway that often and even if you look at it, it dont look wrong...so just do it


Yea, don't worry









I'm not afraid in any way its just that the case is brand-new, cable management & airflow config still unfinished etc etc. so I want to do this first.

Also I might buy Bitfenix Spectre fans to replace those on the case. Any thoughts on them ?
Seems like they are cheap & silent while still moving quite alot of air. Plus they have sickleflow design.


----------



## justanewguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Paradigm84*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> white leds on haf-x should be a beast, thought about getting some either. the nzxt led strips seem to be pretty
> 
> 
> 
> I was actually going for just white LED fans at the moment (Bitfenix Spectre Pro are the contenders at the moment) however now that you mention it LED strips would look pretty sweet. I'm not familiar with connecting the LED strips though, does it require an inverter box type thing like the cathodes do?
Click to expand...

it gets the power from a molex adapter i guess


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *justanewguy*
> 
> seriously who cares about a case if you cut the grill out? its still the same tower.
> its totally worth it, believe me, i was afraid either when i read ehumes thread where he talked about the nibbler but then i decided to do the same.
> you dont see the back of your rig anyway that often and even if you look at it, it dont look wrong...so just do it
> 
> 
> 
> Yea, don't worry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not afraid in any way its just that the case is brand-new, cable management & airflow config still unfinished etc etc. so I want to do this first.
> 
> Also I might buy Bitfenix Spectre fans to replace those on the case. Any thoughts on them ?
> Seems like they are cheap & silent while still moving quite alot of air. Plus they have sickleflow design.
Click to expand...

Me too (to replace two 140 NB-1100rpm med. cfm).








Actually I was thinkin' of this one (BitFenix Spectre PRO):

http://www.drako.it/drako_catalog/product_info.php?products_id=842





From 77m³/h at 1100rpm (my current fans) to146 m³/h at 1200rpm, man this would be a good improvement to my side panel and top intake fans (downvolted when not needed).


----------



## adridu59

Well I was more on regular Spectre's because they are silence-oriented (vs. Pro are performance-oriented) and very cheap, I can't put €€€ for fans.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59*
> 
> Well I was more on regular Spectre's because they are silence-oriented (vs. Pro are performance-oriented) and very cheap, I can't put €€€ for fans.


I was considering a "good balance" of either mid range rpm and performance with an eye to silence, esp. when downvolted by a rheobus. The Spectre Pro's are in fact expensive and beneath its nice, blue led look on the other hand its max airflow capability is something I definitely can't trust. Specs that seem to me similar to the Prolimatech Vortex's, fans they're able to do some less than half cfm than they're claiming.









I don't know, I'm thinking of getting two bran new TY-140, maybe the best of its class, found recently at the same Milano modding with only *€ 5,90*









http://www.drako.it/drako_catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2216


----------



## solsamurai

The TY-140 is an amazing fan and decently low noise. I have two on my Silver Arrow and one in front intake.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

TY-140 is one of my fave's too.


----------



## ehume

I use a TY-140 as my main intake, on the top of the case. All my other case fans are under 1000 rpm, but the TY-140 is hooked into the cpu socket along with the cpu heatsink push and pull fans. The Akasa PWM splitter lets all 3 fans respond to the cpu demand.


----------



## ilikebeer

I'd like to join this.... club? It is a club right?

ATM have two top 140mm fans exhausting air and a 120mm fan at the rear exhausting air. I'll one 140mm fan intake at the top (infront of the cpu cooler) and remove the rear fan and also the pcie slots. Should I remove all the slots? ATM I don't have a gfx card or any other cards in use


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> The TY-140 is an amazing fan and decently low noise. I have two on my Silver Arrow and one in front intake.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing*
> 
> TY-140 is one of my fave's too.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I use a TY-140 as my main intake, on the top of the case. All my other case fans are under 1000 rpm, but the TY-140 is hooked into the cpu socket along with the cpu heatsink push and pull fans. The Akasa PWM splitter lets all 3 fans respond to the cpu demand.


Thank you all guys for the advices, I'm gonna order two or three TY-140 tomorrow. +1 Rep (x3)









*@ehume*,
If you were to choose three fans for a D14 triple fan setup, which one would you take from these: two GT AP-15, two R4 blue led, two TY-140 or two Kaze Maru 2-1700. Let's say you can't place a 140mm as push fan because of the ram clearance and you won't bother of pwm / voltage limitations either since your Gigabyte mobo support both technologies and / or you're gonna use Speedfan.
Thanks.


----------



## justanewguy

i would go with the TY-140 no doubt!
i own 6 of them and they are just smooth, silent with awesome airflow


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> *@ehume*,
> If you were to choose three fans for a D14 triple fan setup, which one would you take from these: two GT AP-15, two R4 blue led, two TY-140 or two Kaze Maru 2-1700. Let's say you can't place a 140mm as push fan because of the ram clearance and you won't bother of pwm / voltage limitations either since your Gigabyte mobo support both technologies and / or you're gonna use Speedfan.
> Thanks.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanewguy*
> 
> i would go with the TY-140 no doubt!
> i own 6 of them and they are just smooth, silent with awesome airflow


Well, there you are.

If you look at item 4 in my sig, chapter5, you will see the TY-140 in action. It's about 0.5c off the P14 and significantly quieter. If you're going for a quiet rig with superb cooling, use the TY-140 with a Gentle Typhoon AP-14 in push. It cools 1c better than stock, with 4-5 dBA less noise.

Your Gigabyte mb supports 1A draw (1000 mA) on any fan header. An AP-14 takes 210 mA to start, then runs at a mere 49 mA. The TY-140 draws 0.2A (200 mA) when running. I think you're safe to put both on the fan header. And you don't need Speed Fan: go into BIOS under PC Health, scroll down to find the Smart Fan settings. Set them to Auto (variation) and Voltage (not Auto select or PWM). Then your mb will run your fans from low-low at idle to full speed on load.


----------



## solsamurai

Finally got a Nibbler and removed my rear grill. There's a noticeably greater amount of air blowing out the back of my case now. Temps dropped 1-2c as well. Eventually I'll get some of this stuff to give it a cleaner look. Moved my case to the other side of my desk where my son can't get it so no need for any other type of grill.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Sweet! Looks like you did a top notch job too!


----------



## solsamurai

The Nibber makes nice smooth cuts that don't bend the case metal at all. I took my time and it paid off.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Well, there you are.
> 
> If you look at item 4 in my sig, chapter5, you will see the TY-140 in action. It's about 0.5c off the P14 and significantly quieter. If you're going for a quiet rig with superb cooling, use the TY-140 with a Gentle Typhoon AP-14 in push. It cools 1c better than stock, with 4-5 dBA less noise.
> 
> Your Gigabyte mb supports 1A draw (1000 mA) on any fan header. An AP-14 takes 210 mA to start, then runs at a mere 49 mA. The TY-140 draws 0.2A (200 mA) when running. I think you're safe to put both on the fan header. And you don't need Speed Fan: go into BIOS under PC Health, scroll down to find the Smart Fan settings. Set them to Auto (variation) and Voltage (not Auto select or PWM). Then your mb will run your fans from low-low at idle to full speed on load.


Let's cut it straight. I'm gonna remove the rear fan and (in one way or the other) have my rear grill cut too. My D14 will definitely mount three fans (push, center, pull) and the first one will be an AP-15 (I own two of 'em, don't wanna spend the extra money for the AP-14).









I do use (always) my mobo's fan settings (cpu_fan, sys_fan2) set on voltage mode. However, I may sometimes manually use the Speedfan too, I like it and gonna use it, for bench sessions, gaming sessions and sometimes even for idle quieter sessions (decreasing the fan's rpm even more).









So it's gonna be an AP-15 as push fan on my D14 (confirmed), a TY-140 as center fan (confirmed also, gonna buy three of them) as for the third fan, I'm not sure yet what choice to make, would like the AP-15 and the TY-140 as well.









Thank you all once again guys for your tips.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> The Nibber makes nice smooth cuts that don't bend the case metal at all. I took my time and it paid off.


Can't wait to find this Nibler or something similar.


----------



## solsamurai

It's awesome. I'll be using it on my next case as well.


----------



## justanewguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Finally got a Nibbler and removed my rear grill. There's a noticeably greater amount of air blowing out the back of my case now. Temps dropped 1-2c as well. Eventually I'll get some of this stuff to give it a cleaner look. Moved my case to the other side of my desk where my son can't get it so no need for any other type of grill.


congratulations









good decision to cut the grill
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Can't wait to find this Nibler or something similar.


go for it, you wont regret it. nibble the world!


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Can't wait to find this Nibler or something similar.


In my last case I cut the grill using a hammer and a screwdriver (like a burin), no kidding. Everything went well.


----------



## chinesethunda

lol how did that turn out? pics?


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> lol how did that turn out? pics?


I had a pic but I can't find it back... it just worked whatsoever.


----------



## solsamurai

Lol, sounds interesting.


----------



## ehume

solsamurai - next project is your slot pillars.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> solsamurai - next project is your slot pillars.


Lol, I would if I wasn't planning on selling my K62 after I change cases. We don't have the room in our apartment for me to hold on to it.


----------



## mksteez

Too many fans being thrown around. Which fans are good that doesnt cost over $15? I can only fit 120mm on my case


----------



## solsamurai

The best fans are worth the price if you ask me.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mksteez*
> 
> Too many fans being thrown around. Which fans are good that doesnt cost over $15? I can only fit 120mm on my case


Would need more info to help you with that, Do you want high flow or low flow. Dose color matter? LED's? do you want PWM? details man, there are tons of great fans, each with their own set of pro's and con's, no one fan is the king, too circumstantial of a question.


----------



## mksteez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing*
> 
> Would need more info to help you with that, Do you want high flow or low flow. Dose color matter? LED's? do you want PWM? details man, there are tons of great fans, each with their own set of pro's and con's, no one fan is the king, too circumstantial of a question.


I guess i shouldve been more specific. High flow but silent and all black, doesnt have to be PWM. I was eyeing the NZXT fans since they are white but i dont know how those perform


----------



## solsamurai

Some high-speed Yates on a controller maybe?


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mksteez*
> 
> I guess i shouldve been more specific. High flow but silent and all black, doesnt have to be PWM. I was eyeing the NZXT fans since they are white but i dont know how those perform


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Some high-speed Yates on a controller maybe?


Yea, high speed yate or XSPC fans. they are dirt cheap and perform great. Fan controller is almost a must IMO.


----------



## ehume

These days, with PWM fans so cheap, your PWM fan controller need cost you only $20, with a 5-fan PWM splitter another $10.


----------



## solsamurai

For those who decide to put their rigs under water it makes sense to have a controller or two for the dozen or so fans on all those rads. I've never felt the need for one so far in my air cooling adventures.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

I love the Rheosmart 6, its amazing! I'm on the fence about getting a second one and use one for each loop. add in this thing and both loops could be water sensitive.... just gatta find the right PWM 120mm fans lol.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> These days, with PWM fans so cheap, your PWM fan controller need cost you only $20, with a 5-fan PWM splitter another $10.


I was wondering if doing so, controlling the pwm (up to 5 different) fans altogether with the main board's CPU-fan header could you still monitor their rpm's (I don't think so if they're different)?

And one last thing, supposing that you'll have 5 different pwm fans on that splitter, could you still override the main board's pwm signal with the Speedfan and set the fans load at 100% instantly for example?


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> I was wondering if doing so, controlling the pwm (up to 5 different) fans altogether with the main board's CPU-fan header could you still monitor their rpm's (I don't think so if they're different)?
> And one last thing, supposing that you'll have 5 different pwm fans on that splitter, could you still override the main board's pwm signal with the Speedfan and set the fans load at 100% instantly for example?


Rheosmart, 6 channels 30w a channel. above each knob you can turn the PWM function on or off, if its off you get to controll the voltage via knob.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> I was wondering if doing so, controlling the pwm (up to 5 different) fans altogether with *the main board's CPU-fan header* could you still monitor their rpm's (I don't think so if they're different)?
> And one last thing, supposing that you'll have 5 different pwm fans on that splitter, could you still override the main board's pwm signal with the Speedfan and set the fans load at 100% instantly for example?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rheosmart, 6 channels 30w a channel. above each knob you can turn the PWM function on or off, if its off you get to controll the voltage via knob.
Click to expand...

I was only interested about this kind of a fan setup (pwm multiple splitter) connected to the mobo's cpu-fan header. I also have a Kaze Master rheo with PWM support.


----------



## justanewguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> I was only interested about this kind of a fan setup (pwm multiple splitter) connected to the mobo's cpu-fan header. I also have a Kaze Master rheo with PWM support.


use this

http://www.overclock.net/t/1204017/pwm-fan-controller-a-review

+ pwm y cable splitters. problem solved


----------



## arrow0309

Yesterday I received the stuff I've previously ordered, three of these fans:











Now I just can't wait for a spare day next week to do some fan replacing and, nevertheless maybe (99%) some nibbling of the rear grill.
It's only that I'll have to use these tools (one is a power tool):











Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!









I think they'll work (for now), my next case will probably get some more accurate nibbling with the qualified tool.


----------



## justanewguy

nibble your rear grill and be satisfied!


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanewguy*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nibble your rear grill and be satisfied!


Yeah, let's cut it off


----------



## ehume

arrow0309. I looked at your tools. I have those hand tools and would not use one on my case. I can't figure out what the power tool is, but it doesn't look promising. None of that stuff will be able to get in and work without bending sheet metal, which is the last thing you want. I foresee a mangled back of your case.

Get one of these instead. Really, once you have one you'll never look at those monstrosities again.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> arrow0309. I looked at your tools. I have those hand tools and would not use one on my case. I can't figure out what the power tool is, but it doesn't look promising. None of that stuff will be able to get in and work without bending sheet metal, which is the last thing you want. I foresee a mangled back of your case.
> 
> Get one of these instead. Really, once you have one you'll never look at those monstrosities again.


Seems I really have to find this *Nibbler Tool* somewhere in Europe.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Seems I really have to find this *Nibbler Tool* somewhere in Europe.


Hammer + screwdriver FTW.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> arrow0309. I looked at your tools. I have those hand tools and would not use one on my case. I can't figure out what the power tool is, but it doesn't look promising. None of that stuff will be able to get in and work without bending sheet metal, which is the last thing you want. I foresee a mangled back of your case.
> 
> Get one of these instead. Really, once you have one you'll never look at those monstrosities again.
> 
> 
> 
> Seems I really have to find this *Nibbler Tool* somewhere in Europe.
Click to expand...

Here?


----------



## ehume

Actually, if you look at the product page where I bought my nibbler tool, there are a number of flags at the top. Clearly this company sells internationally.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Actually, if you look at the product page where I bought my nibbler tool, there are a number of flags at the top. Clearly this company sells internationally.


Found something here, with a very low shipping cost. Not sure how much will it take.


----------



## justanewguy

i ordered it from a ebay (us) shop either. it costs a bit but its worth it


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanewguy*
> 
> i ordered it from a ebay (us) shop either. it costs a bit but its worth it


Definitely worth it.


----------



## chinesethunda

so worth it, honestly after cutting away a few grills, i found I need fewer fans which means less noise as well


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> so worth it, honestly after cutting away a few grills, i found I need fewer fans which means less noise as well


THIS. Also, definitely worth it part 2:



This is before I installed the channel molding like in the previous pic I posted. Sorry for iphone pics...had a long weekend and too tired to get out the DSLR.


----------



## justanewguy

this looks good


----------



## solsamurai

I'm glad I found that channel molding to clean up the look. I know it will be barely noticeable but it would have bothered the crap outta me if I left it bare.


----------



## Cloudpost

So my gpu temps under load drop 10 deg after i take off the side panel. Any suggestions on how to fix this?

note:
- I cut off all possible fan grills and removed the HD tower.
- I have 3 gpu's with the last one being cooled by a Antec kuler 620. Temps on the last one are fine, its the other two that are having problems.
- The second top fan slot is blocked off, the bottom fan slot is empty at the moment.
- All my fans are gelid silent pwm 120mm fans except for two ty-140 for my NH-D14


----------



## solsamurai

What type of coolers are on the other two GPU's? If there are the stock blower types that exhaust out the back of the case I would reverse your setup to front to back airflow for all fans as well as your CPU cooler. Your current setup is not providing enough fresh air to the fans on the top GPU's. Actual pics of your rig would be helpful.









Oh, and removing the PCI slot covers will allow more air to exit the case and further help with temps.


----------



## Cloudpost

k fine. i was to lazy but i guess i will loll

as requested. (i dont have my 3rd on in atm, but its the same type of cooler (non stock type)

I also have an intake in the side panel blowing in


----------



## solsamurai

I see why you have your flow setup that way. Have you ever tried reversing it? Also, most people including myself get a significant drop in temps with the side panel removed. Just the way it is.







I'd still try removing any remaining PCI slot covers first as that can be done pretty easily.









EDIT: I forgot to ask what your current temps are?


----------



## ihatelolcats

if you can remove the plastic shrouds from the heatsinks. it might help.
try different configurations of fans...
if removing the side panel lowers temps, try reversing the direction the side fan blows. you could try positioning a fan on the back of your case blowing air into the pci slots. if you have a spare fan you could also try setting it on your PSU as shown.
or save up for two more antec kuhlers.


----------



## Cloudpost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> I see why you have your flow setup that way. Have you ever tried reversing it? Also, most people including myself get a significant drop in temps with the side panel removed. Just the way it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd still try removing any remaining PCI slot covers first as that can be done pretty easily.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: I forgot to ask what your current temps are?


atm 60-65 folding

but my diamond card has crappy cooling. that gets to 100+ deg when folding. thats why its not installed atm


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cloudpost*
> 
> atm 60-65 folding
> but my diamond card has crappy cooling. that gets to 100+ deg when folding. thats why its not installed atm


100 degrees F or C? If the folding temps are C then that's not crazy hot but I would want them lower if it was my rig.


----------



## Cloudpost

yes in c haha


----------



## solsamurai

Wow. That _is_ terrible cooling!


----------



## arrow0309

Couldn't wait no more for the nibbler (I'll get it for my next case) and did the rear grill cut using a pair of simple aviation shears (two pairs, left and right handed).








The cut went not perfect but (with the nice grill that I place afterwards) it works for me and really bother no one:



Some other pics:











Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## arrow0309

And I'm getting nice temps too, full stress intended, here's a shot (of this morning) with a room temp. 18-19°C:



They're exactly the same temps as before (my best temps ever) when I had the KM2-1700 on the cooler, the Kama Flow 2 @100cfm at max speed and some less ambient too (17°C).
That means now they're even better and the system quieter.


----------



## justanewguy

nice


----------



## Johny86

Hello friends !
I'm building new PC and I already have Corsair 400R case, i was thinking about my case air flow and i im plannig to set it up as i drew on picture below, what do you think about this setup ? maybe i should change something ? Or use any of blocked fan slots ?
I would be grateful for any help, thanks !


----------



## Constantine85

If you are looking for a budget build... the HAF 912 is golden. For good bang for the buck the 922 is good too. HAF 932/X are titans of airflow and come at a little higher of a price. They have a cool military rugged look too. Cases are the most personal thing to buy for the PC so it depend on the mix of function and form. HAF (High Air Flow) cases in general are great for both cable management and airflow. I will say the Coolermaster 690 II serves well for airflow too as it supports up to 10 fans. That is just my experience and $0.02


----------



## ehume

Johny86 - looks good.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Johny86 - looks good.


+1.

CM cases....meh.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> CM cases....meh.


What do you mean ?


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59*
> 
> What do you mean ?


Lol, just poking fun at how I don't like them. Don't look too seriously into it.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *adridu59*
> 
> What do you mean ?
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, just poking fun at how I don't like them. Don't look too seriously into it.
Click to expand...

It all goes back to when his mother found him in the bullrushes on the Nile, floating in a Cooler Master case . . .


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> It all goes back to when his mother found him in the bullrushes on the Nile, floating in a Cooler Master case . . .


Lol, exactly.







I'm feeling pretty crappy today and this made me laugh. Thanks ehume.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> It all goes back to when his mother found him in the bullrushes on the Nile, floating in a Cooler Master case . . .


Nice









Returning to the "water" and "Cooler Master", what do you guys think of the new "Eisberg" incoming two models?









http://vr-zone.com/articles/cooler-master-gets-back-into-the-watercooling-business-with-eisberg-range/15264.html


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Nice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Returning to the "water" and "Cooler Master", what do you guys think of the new "Eisberg" incoming two models?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://vr-zone.com/articles/cooler-master-gets-back-into-the-watercooling-business-with-eisberg-range/15264.html


That's a hefty water block. Much bigger than the Corsair variants. For me, I'm either going all out or nothing when it comes to water cooling. I'd rather not bother with all these self-contained loops and their noisy bundled fans.


----------



## carinae

Hi, quick question, does the CFM of the fans matter? I was looking to buy sickle flow fans. What do you think? Thanks


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carinae*
> 
> Hi, quick question, does the CFM of the fans matter? I was looking to buy sickle flow fans. What do you think? Thanks


CFM matters a great deal when mapping out your airflow. Static pressure is also hugely important. Sickleflows are too noisy if you're going for a quieter setup. Many fan specs you'll see listed are also not accurate as each manufacture has different methods for measuring airflow, static pressure, etc. There's tons of threads around OCN about everyone's choice fans.

What case do you own/plan to get and what hardware? Do you want a positive flow rig?

...and btw welcome to OCN!


----------



## ehume

You can get an idea of the Sickleflows in item 1 of my sig, under Coolermaster R4.

In general, if a rig share your desk, go with fans under 1000 rpm.


----------



## carinae

thanks for the welcome, solo samurai. I forgot to mention that I'm waiting for CoolerMaster CM 692 Advanced. I'm jumping over ehume's setup as soon as I finished initial install and testing.

ehume, yes I have been reading your guides since my search lead me to it. Thank you. Unfortunately, I have no clue how loud those measurements are. So, yes, when I see those larger numbers, I imagine drilling concrete.

So, if it's a noise issue, I guess there's no harm in trying out a single fan and hear how it sounds. But, if its a performance issue, then, i have learn more about it. I guess I should pick up a couple of fans readily available in my area ( aerocool shark, nzxt ) and use it with the fans that comes with the CM 692.

I'll do more reading. Have a good night.


----------



## adridu59

Get some Bitfenix Spectre's :


Here's a review.


----------



## ehume

*Relative Sound**Sound Pressure Level*Ultra-Quiet18 dB or lessVery Quiet18-24 dBQuiet25-30 dBModerate30-35 dBModerately Loud35-40 dBLoud40-50 dBVery Loud50-60 dBToo Loudgreater than 60 dB


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59*
> 
> Get some Bitfenix Spectre's :
> http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/2083716/width/342/height/342/flags/
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a review.


No love for the Spectre Pros? I have the 200mm in my 650D and can only hear the air moving at 12v!







In the 650D thread others have mentions the 140's are decently quiet as well. And they come with 7v adapters and rubber screws.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> No love for the Spectre Pros? I have the 200mm in my 650D and can only hear the air moving at 12v!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the 650D thread others have mentions the 140's are decently quiet as well. And they come with 7v adapters and rubber screws.


They are $$$ and don't look as good&clean as the regular Spectre, plus they are dead silent.

A spectre is only 6,50€ here.


----------



## solsamurai

I never used the old Spectre fans but the 200mm Pro I have is super quiet and moves lots of air.







They cost more cause they are newer is all.


----------



## carinae

Thank you.

So, I ordered 5 spectre, 1 nf-f12 and a front panel controller. It's going to be f12(push)-p14-p12(exchaust) once I received 3rd d14 brackets. Then, 4 front spectre fans as intake( & in case) connected to the controller. Im using the CM fans for top and side until I decide what to get next. What do you guys think?


----------



## solsamurai

Sounds good to me.


----------



## adridu59

Good choice !


----------



## darksen

hello, thank you ehume very much for a very informative thread.

I'm upgrading from an OLD antec case to a newer case around may/june(summer)

I'm currently looking at either a full tower HAF-X or a mid Lanboy.

I know most of you would probably vouch for HAF-x, but have anyone tried the lanboy? Is it as good as some say? Anyone theorized any good airflow options for that case?

Also, if there are any other cases that maybe coming out that would fit a D14 and is great for airflow please let me know.

Thank you very much !


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darksen*
> 
> I know most of you would probably vouch for HAF-x


Not really... looks not very good IMO.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darksen*
> 
> Also, if there are any other cases that maybe coming out that would fit a D14 and is great for airflow please let me know.


There are dozens of great cases that can fit a NH-D14... my advice is : do your homework, read some reviews, its the best way to make a choice.









You don't need a full tower like the HAF-X to fit the D14. It is 160mm tall so basically any case that has rear 120mm fan will be able to fit it. Sometimes the case manufacturer also precises what the available clearance is.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59*
> 
> Not really... looks not very good IMO.


+1


----------



## darksen

ah thanks,
I guess I don't need a full, this is my expected spec:

Asrock Z68+i5 with D14

gigabyte GJTX570 windforce

1ssd and 1 hdd

850W CM silent pro.

Any rec for a good air flow case?( i live i arizona, its summer is extremely brutal), I was looking at ehume's suggestions so HAF-X was one that I liked, haha

in the mean time, I shall go look up more cases!

Thanks!


----------



## solsamurai

Something with two front and top fan mounts for sure. 140mm fans are quieter than 120mm by moving more air at lower RPM. There are many ways to mount additional intake fans in the 5.25 bay on cases with only one front intake. With a card like the windforce that dumps all the hot air into the case you may want to look into either a mid-case fan(s) that you mount by whatever creative means or side intakes.


----------



## a pet rock

If you're willing to blow $180 on a HAF-X, I would suggest the RV02. Same layout as the excellent FT02, but more steel and a bit of rice to make it cheaper.


----------



## solsamurai

Silverstone are big advocates of positive pressure airflow. Just make sure the case doesn't sit on carpet.


----------



## inVain

I really like Ehume's idea with the "positive flow"....
it surely drop my temps,
and somehow it reduce the noise in my rig (but noise are really subjective manners tough







)

thanks for this thread Ehume


----------



## darksen

How is Fractal R3? Would you guys rec? it's on sale right now.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?SID=Chstun_-EeGseHJ9paJ5ug0&AID=10440897&PID=1225267&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-cables-_-na-_-na&Item=N82E16811352013

ew nevermind, midi is better.


----------



## justanewguy

HAF series, you cant go wrong with it


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darksen*
> 
> ew nevermind, midi is better.


Arc Midi is an awesome case !
Define R3 is bigger and its a good case too.

Checkout the Fractal Design Case Club is you want some pics/informations.


----------



## darksen

WAITING ON A DEAL NOW!


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanewguy*
> 
> HAF series, you cant go wrong with it


If you don't mind your PC looking like a scifi tank of some sort, lol.









@darksen, the R3 is a great, quiet case but doesn't have the best front intake airflow. You may need to replace the front fans.


----------



## arrow0309

*HI EVERYBODY*

Here I am again for another quest to the fans of my D14









I am going to replace once again the three fans of the cooler (right now 2x R4 P/P and 1 TY-140 central) with the following three:
1 - Push fan, NIDEC SERVO - GENTLE TYPHOON 120MM - 3000 RPM (AP-29), pwm/voltage modded, 83.00 CFM (real cfm IMO), 5.08 mmH20 and I'm gonna use a 120x25mm shroud (only for this one):



2 - Center fan, SCYTHE SLIP STREAM 140MM - 1700 RPM (KM2), 92.4 CFM (not sure if they're real):



I've found these data about the KM2-1700, good values IMHO:





3 - Pull (third) fan, NOISEBLOCKER MULTIFRAME M12-S3HS, 73 CFM, 2,302 mmH2O

*QUESTION*

Are the two KM2-1700 and M12-S3HS (central and pull fan) gonna slow down the air flow/pressure of the first fan at its max 3000 rpm?
Are the two KM2-1700 and M12-S3HS (central and pull fan) gonna slow down the air flow/pressure of the first fan at 2500 rpm?
What do you think would be the best rpm speed for the shrouded AP-29 while the other two fans are running at their max speed?

Thanks for the tips, I'm going to try out soon.


----------



## ehume

With that KM2 1700 in the middle and the AP-29 up front you will see no improvement from a pull fan. See item 4 in my sig, chapter 6.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> With that KM2 1700 in the middle and the AP-29 up front you will see no improvement from a pull fan. See item 4 in my sig, chapter 6.


I've read that section (6.5 Three-fan Sets) and, *man,*
_*"The improvement in cooling ranged from 0 to 0.6c, at a cost of 1.5 to 4.5 dBA"*_








Good to know. I doubt there's gonna be any minimal improvement for me since I was not gonna use an AP-29 as a pull fan too.

Do you confirm the CoolingTechnique great cfm/static pressure data on the KM2 1700 above?

Ok, the results (mine) are coming soon.


----------



## 161029

Any comments on this?



I guess it's a rather simple setup. I decided to apply the concept of the top intake to the bottom intake. The bottom fan will add to the flow of the fan, although I want to slightly modify the flow so it's angled upwards toward the GPU. I might be able to see the flow without a smoke machine by using some dry ice and a plastic sheet. this might also angle the flow the upper front intake creates and the top intake might redirect the flow directly at the CPU heatsink. The fans on the heatsink will pull the air so no worries if the top intake can't redirect the flow.

It's a little late so I'm tired and didn't really think this out. Just wanted something to start out with though. I will be removing the expansion slot brackets.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Any comments on this?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess it's a rather simple setup. I decided to apply the concept of the top intake to the bottom intake. The bottom fan will add to the flow of the fan, although I want to slightly modify the flow so it's angled upwards toward the GPU. I might be able to see the flow without a smoke machine by using some dry ice and a plastic sheet. this might also angle the flow the upper front intake creates and the top intake might redirect the flow directly at the CPU heatsink. The fans on the heatsink will pull the air so no worries if the top intake can't redirect the flow.
> It's a little late so I'm tired and didn't really think this out. Just wanted something to start out with though. I will be removing the expansion slot brackets.


There's no need to angle the bottom intake fan IMO. It's more about the total intake CFM from all sides collectively pushing the air out the rear of the case. Testing with a smoke machine/dry ice/etc is a bit much IMO. Let the folks at Silverstone do that. Your temps/noise will show how effective any given airflow config is. Remove the top HDD cage (which you can do with that case) and you're good to go! That's the exact layout I would use with that case.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> There's no need to angle the bottom intake fan IMO. It's more about the total intake CFM from all sides collectively pushing the air out the rear of the case. Remove the top HDD cage (which you can do with that case) and you're good to go! That's the exact layout I would use with that case.


Well, that's not what I meant.









I meant the bottom fan would blow enough air to angle the airflow. Unnecessary but just a though.

I might end up removing both. I'm probably only going to have 1 hard drive and a SSD. Just mount them in the 5.25 bay or somewhere. I'll have to think of it. Maybe right under the 5.25" bay. I saw somebody do that.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Well, that's not what I meant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I meant the bottom fan would blow enough air to angle the airflow. Unnecessary but just a though.
> I might end up removing both. I'm probably only going to have 1 hard drive and a SSD. Just mount them in the 5.25 bay or somewhere. I'll have to think of it. Maybe right under the 5.25" bay. I saw somebody do that.


Lol, sorry I can't read today.







The bottom fan helps with additional cool air for the GPU and overall positive flow. If noise is an issue I'd say try with and without it and see how temps are effected. You may not need it in the end. Both HDDs in the 5.25 bay sounds good.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Any comments on this?
> 
> 
> 
> I guess it's a rather simple setup. I decided to apply the concept of the top intake to the bottom intake. The bottom fan will add to the flow of the fan, although I want to slightly modify the flow so it's angled upwards toward the GPU. I might be able to see the flow without a smoke machine by using some dry ice and a plastic sheet. this might also angle the flow the upper front intake creates and the top intake might redirect the flow directly at the CPU heatsink. The fans on the heatsink will pull the air so no worries if the top intake can't redirect the flow.
> 
> It's a little late so I'm tired and didn't really think this out. Just wanted something to start out with though. I will be removing the expansion slot brackets.


Looks good.

Your case seems rather low, as cases go. Mid-tower. Not nearly enough room for a 5.25 bay fan. What kind is it?

Can you mount a side panel fan? If so, a nice gentle one would do you some good. It just should not be powerful enough to stall your front and bottom inflows.

I'd recommend at the very least removing your slot covers. As you know, I also favor removing your rear grill and slot pillars. That allows you to live with no exhaust fan.


----------



## plum

What if you have a GPU that exhausts inside the case(twin frozr, accelero, gigabyte), do you still recommend having the top fan as intake instead of exhaust?

This is my current set in my HAF912 -> http://i.imgur.com/WrsNr.jpg - everything is intake, including two front intake fans (can't see the one in the bay), except the rear and the top


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Looks good.
> 
> Your case seems rather low, as cases go. Mid-tower. Not nearly enough room for a 5.25 bay fan. What kind is it?
> 
> Can you mount a side panel fan? If so, a nice gentle one would do you some good. It just should not be powerful enough to stall your front and bottom inflows.
> 
> I'd recommend at the very least removing your slot covers. As you know, I also favor removing your rear grill and slot pillars. That allows you to live with no exhaust fan.


That's the Arc Midi. It has a 140/180mm side panel mount. The two front fans are 140mm.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plum*
> 
> What if you have a GPU that exhausts inside the case(twin frozr, accelero, gigabyte), do you still recommend having the top fan as intake instead of exhaust?


Positive flow pushes all air out the rear of the case. My GPU dumps all it's hot air into my case and stays under 60c. I have almost the same setup minus the bottom intake in my 650D. I'm getting ready to add a mid-case fan for even more airflow so I can fold and run Boinc for longer periods of time.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Looks good.
> 
> Your case seems rather low, as cases go. Mid-tower. Not nearly enough room for a 5.25 bay fan. What kind is it?
> 
> Can you mount a side panel fan? If so, a nice gentle one would do you some good. It just should not be powerful enough to stall your front and bottom inflows.
> 
> I'd recommend at the very least removing your slot covers. As you know, I also favor removing your rear grill and slot pillars. That allows you to live with no exhaust fan.


It's the Arc Midi.









Well, looks like that's where the HDD's are going.

Yup. I can mount a 140 or 180mm.

Definitely doing that and I will get the Nibbler from the Nibbler thread here (forget the specific name).


----------



## Sxcerino

Why is it poor to have a larger fan, i.e. 230mm intaking from the top? I could see it affecting the air flow if it was shadowing over the heatsink, but what if it only shadows 2/3 of it. In the case of a D14, it would shadow partly the second tower.

Since I can't easily detach my rear exhaust grill, I'm going to try to run a TY-140 there.

Going to try with a D14 like this:

Ty-140 Ty140<-F12<-F12

Debating whether if I should pair the TY-140s to the same header or not.


----------



## darksen

been doing some research, could I get some feedback on he 600t please?

and also, between the two(HAF x, 600T) , which one would you pick for better cooling and management (not aesthetics)


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darksen*
> 
> been doing some research, could I get some feedback on he 600t please?
> 
> and also, between the two(HAF x, 600T) , which one would you pick for better cooling and management (not aesthetics)


Definitely the Haf X


----------



## darksen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Definitely the Haf X


thanks, any recs for mid towers that will be on my desk? how's the 960II holding up with the new gadgets?


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darksen*
> 
> been doing some research, could I get some feedback on he 600t please?
> and also, between the two(HAF x, 600T) , which one would you pick for better cooling and management (not aesthetics)


600T is horribly overpriced, HAF-X is just a bit overpriced but looks terrible IMO.


----------



## darksen

haha yea, I'm ok with the looks since it'll not be that visible, just want cooling performance.

i'm pretty settled on HAF X, now the REAL QUESTIONS ARE:

1. It comes with one top 200mm fan, should I get another 200mm fan for intakes or should I just block off the rear one and only have the front one as intake.[/B]

2. What's your suggestion for HDD drive bay fan, what kind of 140mm?( I don't care about no noise, fan control optional)

3. Should i nibble out the back since i have a NH-D14?

4. Windforce GPU, sidepanel intake or outtake?

thanks alot!


----------



## arrow0309

*I DID IT*

It was about time to get another round of fan change & improvement to my trusty NH-D14.
As I planned before I did swap back to the Gentle Typhoon AP-29 and the Kaze Maru 2 (Slip Stream 140) 1700 in a bit different formula, lowering some more the 140mm central KM2 position and adding a 120x25mm shroud (from an old slip stream) to the front push fan AP-29.

The results were great to me, since I'm still having a hot i7 920 overclocked at 4.2Ghz daily.

I manage this way to lower the cpu core temp down to *2°C* getting a new record: 53°C TOA









_Ambient temp: 21°C and case fans at med-high speed_



Using the latest version of the famous Linpack torture test Linx 0.6.4 AVX Edition is gonna burn even more your cpu. And notice that I've limited the AP-29's rpm to 2500 (not 3000) in full load.

*74 70 70 68 Core Temps in °C*



I ran the very same test a couple of days before, same Linx and 4,2ghz with the previous three fans (2x R4 and 1 TY-140) getting the same 74-70-70-68 temps at 19° of ambient temp (got a chilly morning).

What did I say, *2°C lower* with the new setup









And here's the rest of the system, revisited:





Some more pics










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!











Feel free to shot


----------



## Hackcremo

Guys..i need some help in regarding my cooler master elite 430 case flow...my temperature are too high, i try put as many fan as i can to reduce it but it seem the temp are still high..


----------



## solsamurai

Do you have any top fans atm? Remove the rear grill with a Nibbler. What are your ambient temps and what are the temps of your components under load?


----------



## Hackcremo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Do you have any top fans atm? Remove the rear grill with a Nibbler. What are your ambient temps and what are the temps of your components under load?


nope..i dont have any fans on top..what is nibbler mate..??
my ambient around 30'c and the temp 24/7 peak temperature :
2700K at 4.7ghz 80'c , 2x GTX 460 at 75'c...


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hackcremo*
> 
> nope..i dont have any fans on top..what is nibbler mate..??
> my ambient around 30'c and the temp 24/7 peak temperature :
> 2700K at 4.7ghz 80'c , 2x GTX 460 at 75'c...


You _did_ read through this thread a bit, right? The Nibbler comes up all over the place, lol.







Check out the Nibbler Club link in my sig. It's a great tool for easily removing mesh grills to increase airflow. Your high ambient temps are a notable part of the problem. You also have two GPUs that tend to run hot and one (cyclone) dumps all it's hot air into the case. Some of that air gets cycled up to the CPU heatsink which doesn't help either. Are your top fans intake or exhaust? Do you have a side fan at all?


----------



## ihatelolcats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hackcremo*
> 
> Guys..i need some help in regarding my cooler master elite 430 case flow...my temperature are too high, i try put as many fan as i can to reduce it but it seem the temp are still high..


i can tell you right now that your airflow is fine. the problem is the outdated heatsink on your processor. i would recommend something but it depends on your budget.
your graphics temps are ok as far as i know


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ihatelolcats*
> 
> i can tell you right now that your airflow is fine. the problem is the outdated heatsink on your processor. i would recommend something but it depends on your budget.
> your graphics temps are ok as far as i know


How do you know the airflow is fine when we don't know if the top and possible side fans are intake or exhaust?


----------



## ihatelolcats

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> How do you know the airflow is fine when we don't know if the top and possible side fans are intake or exhaust?


he doesn't have a top fan
the flow still would be fine whether the side is intake or exhaust or if there isn't one


----------



## Hackcremo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> You _did_ read through this thread a bit, right? The Nibbler comes up all over the place, lol.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Check out the Nibbler Club link in my sig. It's a great tool for easily removing mesh grills to increase airflow. Your high ambient temps are a notable part of the problem. You also have two GPUs that tend to run hot and one (cyclone) dumps all it's hot air into the case. Some of that air gets cycled up to the CPU heatsink which doesn't help either. Are your top fans intake or exhaust? Do you have a side fan at all?


sorry for the nibbler part..i have gone through before..it tools to cut the fan grill more cheap compared to dremel..the fan configuration on my case is:
1x artic F12 at front bottom INTAKE
1x Silent CM at the hdd cage INTAKE
1x CM blademaster at the 5.25 drive bays INTAKE
1x Side fan INTAKE
1x Artic f12 EXAUST

Hyper 212+ with 2x Artic F12 in P/P configuration..

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ihatelolcats*
> 
> i can tell you right now that your airflow is fine. the problem is the outdated heatsink on your processor. i would recommend something but it depends on your budget.
> your graphics temps are ok as far as i know


did u mean i need to upgrade my hsf..??


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ihatelolcats*
> 
> he doesn't have a top fan
> the flow still would be fine whether the side is intake or exhaust or if there isn't one


That's not true. I experienced a big difference in temps in my last case with the side fan as intake vs exhaust. Each individuals case will yield different results but more often when going for positive flow intake on the side works out better.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hackcremo*
> 
> sorry for the nibbler part..i have gone through before..it tools to cut the fan grill more cheap compared to dremel..the fan configuration on my case is:
> 1x artic F12 at front bottom INTAKE
> 1x Silent CM at the hdd cage INTAKE
> 1x CM blademaster at the 5.25 drive bays INTAKE
> 1x Side fan INTAKE
> 1x Artic f12 EXAUST
> Hyper 212+ with 2x Artic F12 in P/P configuration..
> did u mean i need to upgrade my hsf..??


I agree that you need a more robust CPU cooler like the D14 or Silver Arrow. Your rear exhaust fan should have higher CFM and static pressure than the rest to help all that warm air fly out.







I would also try at least one top intake in the front slot. It will feed fresh cool air directly in front of your CPU cooler. That _always_ helps.


----------



## samwiches

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *darksen*
> 
> been doing some research, could I get some feedback on he 600t please?
> and also, between the two(HAF x, 600T) , which one would you pick for better cooling and management (not aesthetics)
> 
> 
> 
> 600T is horribly overpriced, HAF-X is just a bit overpriced but looks terrible IMO.
Click to expand...

I think all cases are overpriced. It's like fan mounts and extra room are so expensive to design and manufacture.









So how is everyone controlling their fans? I posted a thread in cooling about fan controllers cause it seems like there are only two options: manual control of many fans, or software control of a few fans. I want all my fans to respond to load/temps of the CPU and GPU.


----------



## ehume

Hackremo - with your location in Malaysia, I have to ask about your ambient.

Your heatsink has four heatpipes. They look to be 6mm or less. Top-line heatsinks have 6x6mm or 4x8mm, or more. Your heatsink will be limited in the heat it can dissipate compared to other heatsinks.

For your gpu's you can remove your unused slot covers. That will help.


----------



## solsamurai

Earlier he mentioned an ambient of 30c and posted a pic with the unused slot covers already removed.


----------



## Hackcremo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Hackremo - with your location in Malaysia, I have to ask about your ambient.
> 
> Your heatsink has four heatpipes. They look to be 6mm or less. Top-line heatsinks have 6x6mm or 4x8mm, or more. Your heatsink will be limited in the heat it can dissipate compared to other heatsinks.
> 
> For your gpu's you can remove your unused slot covers. That will help.


my ambient as be posted before is 30'c. I am using hyper 212+..may be 6mm..never measure before..
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Earlier he mentioned an ambient of 30c and posted a pic with the unused slot covers already removed.


yeah..thank for clearing up..i will try to add another top front intake fan..and remove the rear gril or put higher cfm fan..


----------



## solsamurai

If anything definitely try a top front intake. I used to think my 25c ambient was bad, lol.


----------



## kevindd992002

Is it recommended to remove the hard drive cage in the HAF 922? Would it improve overall temps in my case?

If so, where can I put my HDD and SSD when I also have a TY-140 in the top front part of the case serving as an intake for the CPU heatsink?


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Is it recommended to remove the hard drive cage in the HAF 922? Would it improve overall temps in my case?
> If so, where can I put my HDD and SSD when I also have a TY-140 in the top front part of the case serving as an intake for the CPU heatsink?


Why not experiment and find out?







SSD's can go just about anywhere if you have adhesive velcro or similar. HDD's are another story since you already have a TY-140 in the 5.25 bay.

*EDIT:* Just found out about the Corsair Vengeance cases. Looks promising for good airflow and even has two 120mm fans mounted behind the HDD cages.


----------



## plum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> That's the Arc Midi. It has a 140/180mm side panel mount. The two front fans are 140mm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Positive flow pushes all air out the rear of the case. My GPU dumps all it's hot air into my case and stays under 60c. I have almost the same setup minus the bottom intake in my 650D. I'm getting ready to add a mid-case fan for even more airflow so I can fold and run Boinc for longer periods of time.


I just tried that and the result was pretty awful. HD temps went up to 38c from 29-32c and CPU temps didn't change at all.


----------



## solsamurai

You mean the mid case fan? Your case (haf 912) has solid pci slot covers so if you left those in place I can see why temps would suffer. Or are they removed?


----------



## plum

no, I turned my top 200mm from exhaust to intake. result was bad, so I switched it back.

Edit: I left those pci slot covers on actually, hmm... I wonder if that would help taking the GPU hot air out...


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plum*
> 
> no, I turned my top 200mm from exhaust to intake. result was bad, so I switched it back.


Ah I see. Are your pci slot covers removed as well? I've noticed a single top 200mm intake does not perform as well as a front top 120/140. The only reason I'm using a 200mm on top atm is I haven't found a 140 that's quiet enough to replace it, lol. In my last case (K62) the front top 140 intake dropped my CPU temps ~4c.







That's with the rear top slot blocked off the rear fan and mesh gone.


----------



## plum

I do have a front top fan as well, It's a CM R4 1900rpm.

my setup is:
*Intake*
Front top: 120mm CM R4
Front bottom: 200mm CM
Side: 140mm TY-140
*exhaust*
Top: 200mm CM
Rear: 140mm TY-140

All my intakes are also filtered, which doesn't help for airflow as much I guess. but the components stay pretty dustfree, I dust it every 2 weeks anyway regardless.

I have an unused CM Blademaster 120mm as well, can't really do anything with it though, no space to put that anywhere. I _could_ use it instead of the R4, but it's pretty loud

switching up my Top fan worsened the temps, as I said, but maybe removing the pci slot covers would help. I'll need to try that later I guess, just having a hard time believing I can do anything to better my temps even more at this point. I was hoping to lower my BF3 CPU temps down to low 50s but they're in the high 50s (OC'd 4ghz). I know, not the end of the world, but that's the only reason I'm considering doing these tweaks


----------



## solsamurai

Your case has solid pci slot covers. That's the main issue atm when trying for positive flow. With them removed a great deal of warm air should simply flow out the back of the case instead of being recirculated around and out the rear fan opening. If your system is under a desk there's also a chance the top front 120 is pulling in some of the warm air being exhausted by the top 200mm. Using a Nibbler tool to remove the rear mesh will allow even more air to be pulled out by the TY-140.


----------



## ohhgourami

Hi everyone!

I wanted if there are further adjustments I can do with my rig. I know my case isn't exactly the best for cooling but I find it very aesthetically pleasing.





The front/mid fan (inside that cage with the Silverstone logo) and top fan are intakes; SS-800rpm and GT AP-15 (@900 rpm), respectively. On NH-D14 is another GT AP-15 (psuedo PWM) and NF-P14. There is a SS-800 as a rear fan directly behind the NH-D14. Sometime over the weekend I plan to swap the fans in the top and front positions so I get more cool air to the GPU when I game as I can have control my GTs via 4 pin headers (seems wrong but it works!).

My i5-2500k is OCed @ 4.5Ghz and my idling temps hover around 38C (Intel Speedstep turned off) and stay around 62C when running prime95 after many hours. I'm trying to achieve an ultra quiet setup while maintaining good performance.


----------



## solsamurai

Only thing I can think of is add an intake in the 5.25 bay if possible and clean up the cables a bit more (mostly for looks, lol). What case is that? Use the links in my sig to add your system to your sig. It helps others to know exactly what hardware you have when asking questions like this.


----------



## ohhgourami

Ok I updated my sig with my rig. Thanks a lot for showing me how to!

The case a Silverstone TJ-10B. I don't think I can add an intake fan in the 5.25 bay that would be effective. The front of my drive bays has a door which would completely block airflow. If I remove the door of the bays and add mesh grills there, I might as well have bought an ugly HAF X instead. My case also has close to no cable management so it would be hard to make the inside look any nicer. I've tried my best to keep cables from obstructing airflow and I think I've done a good job with that. Sorry the interior isn't as clean looking as some others. At least I don't have LEDs all over. Don't get me started on how much I hate LEDs on rigs









I also have a TY-140 coming in to replace that awful P14. Would removing the PCI expansion slots help me at all since they have grills?


----------



## solsamurai

Lol, I didn't mean to sound like I was bashing your cable management.







If I didn't have a window on my side panel I wouldn't have spent over an hour arranging them all.







I don't mind one or two fans with LEDs but at the same time I wish I had bought the non-LED version of my front intake. Oh well...let's see what ehume has to say about your current airflow.


----------



## ohhgourami

I actually didn't intend to buy the windowed version of my case. Amazon sent me the wrong one and I was in a hurry to build everything so I didn't bother returning it for the non-windowed version. Silverstone isn't _too_ far from me so I might stop by their place directly later to pick up a new sidepanel (I've called to confirm this).

You didn't sound mean at all; I just got overly detailed haha

I also ordered some Bones Speed cream and sewing machine oil and see if I can minimize the bearing noise of the GTs. It's a slight noise but I can definitely hear it.


----------



## solsamurai

The GT's use dual ball bearings right? I know they have a distinct noise characteristic airflow-wise that is different from other fans.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> I actually didn't intend to buy the windowed version of my case. Amazon sent me the wrong one and I was in a hurry to build everything so I didn't bother returning it for the non-windowed version. Silverstone isn't _too_ far from me so I might stop by their place directly later to pick up a new sidepanel (I've called to confirm this).
> 
> You didn't sound mean at all; I just got overly detailed haha
> 
> I also ordered some Bones Speed cream and sewing machine oil and see if I can minimize the bearing noise of the GTs. It's a slight noise but I can definitely hear it.


I didn't know that a ball bearing GT still needs extra lubrication like the sleeve fans, and here's the ehume's gude.

http://www.overclock.net/t/773256/prepping-a-sleeve-bearing-fan-for-work

Let me know if you notice any noise improvement


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> I didn't know that a ball bearing GT still needs extra lubrication like the sleeve fans, and here's the ehume's gude.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/773256/prepping-a-sleeve-bearing-fan-for-work
> Let me know if you notice any noise improvement


I'm not sure if the GTs need extra lube so I PMed ehume and he thinks I should give it a try. I've read through most of his fan articles so I knew about that thread too.

The one thing I find strange is that I don't see much of an increase in cooling compared to the nf-p12. I expected a drop of maybe 3 degrees as the AP-15 pushes a lot of air at max rpm.

I will definitely keep you guys updated though!


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Why not experiment and find out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SSD's can go just about anywhere if you have adhesive velcro or similar. HDD's are another story since you already have a TY-140 in the 5.25 bay.
> *EDIT:* Just found out about the Corsair Vengeance cases. Looks promising for good airflow and even has two 120mm fans mounted behind the HDD cages.


Hmmm, but I don't where to put the HDD?


----------



## 161029

I was bored and though of designing a case just because I could.









I didn't get very far, but I didn't have much time either. I'm horrible at drawing so I'm sorry if there's anything that looks bad. Here's how far I've gotten.



The arrows represent the airflow. It's probably going to end up as a cube case. I haven't decided yet. Here's the chamber with the motherboard in it.



Here's the side panel. The dashed lines represent the 140mm fans inside the chamber with the motherboard.



And here's the ones I'm actually trying to draw to scale. I just traced the ATX board on the PDF provided by formfactors.org shrunken down to my liking. I haven't included a couple of the mATX mounting holes yet. Those boxes are cutouts for cable management.



It's dedicated to airflow and air cooling, not watercooling or anything else. This is just the beginning though.









Edit: recommendations for additions would be appreciated. I actually want to submit this one to Jim over at Case Labs or something. Make an "ehume" version of something.


----------



## darksen

just got http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352007&Tpk=arc%20midi instead, on sale!

and does anyone know how would I go about adding a side panel fan outside like in this picture?


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darksen*
> 
> just got http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352007&Tpk=arc%20midi instead, on sale!
> and does anyone know how would I go about adding a side panel fan outside like in this picture?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


I really like that case. I plan on using it for a friends build soon. You may find you need to replace the stock fans after awhile if temps aren't where you like 'em. So many options for airflow is really nice! I'm excited for you!









You add the side fan with longer screws is all. Actually looks like they mounted from the inside. Not too bad.







Not sure why you would want to do that. Pushing air through the side mesh would increase noise and reduce airflow. Like putting an air filter on the wrong side.


----------



## darksen

Nice, thanks, I'm so excited too! XD

The reason why he mounted outside is because D14 will block the side panel fan.

Any good suggestions? I got some 140mm Yate Loons sitting around...

also, since I can't really mod the drive bay, would you guys suggest a fan controller?


----------



## solsamurai

Definitely get a fan controller if you can afford it. You'll have the greatest amount of control of airflow that way.


----------



## darksen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Definitely get a fan controller if you can afford it. You'll have the greatest amount of control of airflow that way.


Ok, i'm reading up some reviews on newegg... they are either cheaply built or have records of shorting out expensive hardwares..... bad luck??

Hmm, if I don't install an optical drive, I wonder if I can fit a 120mm in that slot to push more air through to CPU.


----------



## solsamurai

Don't get a controller from newegg. They don't carry anything worth the money IMO except maybe the Scythe controllers. You need something with a better track record like this Lamptron.


----------



## darksen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Don't get a controller from newegg. They don't carry anything worth the money IMO except maybe the Scythe controllers. You need something with a better track record like this Lamptron.


Damn that thing is sexy, I see what you mean by if I have the cash for it. Definitely saving up for it if I can't fit a fan in the 5" bay.

edit: how about this one? http://www.amazon.com/Lamptron-Speed-Controller-channel-Black/dp/B002R8IZAA


----------



## solsamurai

You can remove the top HDD cage and get all the airflow you need from that fan. The bottom front intake will keep the HDDs cool. Unless you plan to use more than three four drives that is...at that point you can rotate the top cage.







For any fan controller you're looking at I suggest doing a search by name here on OCN and get feedback that way.


----------



## ohhgourami

After a few hours, I finally got my TY-140 into the D14. Now its much quieter! The weird thing is that my temps are higher even though the performance of the TY-140 is supposed to be better than the stock fan.

Can anyone explain this?


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> After a few hours, I finally got my TY-140 into the D14. Now its much quieter! The weird thing is that my temps are higher even though the performance of the TY-140 is supposed to be better than the stock fan.
> Can anyone explain this?


The spacing of the fins on the towers is different. The D14 was engineered to perform with the included fans and their static pressure. Have you tried high and low speeds and compared temps?

EDIT: Here's a comparison pic from another site:


----------



## darksen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> You can remove the top HDD cage and get all the airflow you need from that fan. The bottom front intake will keep the HDDs cool. Unless you plan to use more than three four drives that is...at that point you can rotate the top cage.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For any fan controller you're looking at I suggest doing a search by name here on OCN and get feedback that way.


Yea I only have 1 HDD and 1SSD, so the mid cage will be removed for sure.

A more important airflow question, since the top can fit two 140mm,should I block rear and single 140mm intake, OR double 140mm intake? Theorycraft welcome


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darksen*
> 
> Yea I only have 1 HDD and 1SSD, so the mid cage will be removed for sure.
> A more important airflow question, since the top can fit two 140mm,should I block rear and single 140mm intake, OR double 140mm intake? Theorycraft welcome


What CPU cooler will you be using?


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> The spacing of the fins on the towers is different. The D14 was engineered to perform with the included fans and their static pressure. Have you tried high and low speeds and compared temps?


That makes a lot of sense actually. At idle, the temps are ~2C lower, while full load is ~5C higher.


----------



## darksen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> What CPU cooler will you be using?


Noctua D14, hence the side panel fan limitation


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> That makes a lot of sense actually. At idle, the temps are ~2C lower, while full load is ~5C higher.


There you go. Keep 'em low!







Wait when you say idle to you mean the fans are at a lower RPM or the system is idling?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darksen*
> 
> Noctua D14, hence the side panel fan limitation


I'd say a single 140mm intake in front of the D14 and block off the rest of the top. At the same time it never hurts to try both options.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Wait when you say idle to you mean the fans are at a lower RPM or the system is idling?


Both. Low rpm and system is idling. My fan speeds are automatically adjusted by Speedfan.

Actually I noticed the avg idling temp is lower, but there is much more fluctuation. I actually had a hard time squeezing the ty-140 into the D14. Maybe I'm getting contact or rub although I don't hear such a thing and rpms don't reflect that.

Also the top mount in my case causes a bit of vibration. It is one of those snap-on brackets so I'm not sure not to get it to stop that. Once I apply pressure against the frame of the fan, the noise goes away.


----------



## JTHMfreak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Inverse*
> 
> Outside of the statement of a second fan on the top~ you've said absolutely nothing about its capacity for air cooling on an air cooling thread in an air cooling forum.
> 
> There was no reason at all for the OP to blast all Antec cases. Hell based on post history he even owned one.
> 
> OP~ you do great things for the forum. I can tell, but just because you had an ill experience with one of your cases, think long and hard before just slamming an entire brand for the purpose of a degree or two celcius~ especially when you don't really have any just cause for it.
> 
> Some of you are going to have to really tell me the issue with cable management as well. Are you guys experiencing only the first version of some of these cases? The Antec 900-2 has more holes than I know what to do with. Not having a dual-top fan is mitigated by the fact that the 200mm fan at the top is flippin' awesome.
> 
> It's not perfect, but it's a midtower case. The only negative I have with it is having to unscrew drive bays to get to my dust filters. I wouldn't tell people to boycott Antec because of that. lol (I'm just teasing here~)
> 
> The Beta Evo is a nice case for instance, it's got the exact same cutouts for cables as the Antec 900-2 and it's way cheaper. Then again it doesn't come with anything but the front fan for cooling so it better be.
> 
> Sorry~ just set my trigger off a bit with that. *laughs*
> 
> Anyway if you want to use ehume's unorthadox, but very practical method of CPU cooling, you're obviously going to need a no-nonsense case that can be modified with things like forward facing top fans. I just think it's funny that you have a thread celebrating negative pressure and then have this one dictating positive pressure as the way to go.


LOVE my 902


----------



## suave stats

Hey guys I have been doing some research on the best 140mm fans, and I have come to the conclusion of getting aerocool shark fans in black. I want to have the best air flow I can possibly have (keeping the case as cool as possible and getting rid of as much hot air as I can). I plan on getting a nzxt switch 810 case, which I believe can hold a total of 8 140mm fans (3 on top, two in the front, two inside the case that can be pointed at an angle towards the motherboard and graphics card or just pointed towards the back of the case, and then one in the rear). I have seen a lot of pictures on here showing to have the top fans actually blowing air inside the case, instead of out. So my question is should I have the case set up as having the top and front fans blow inside the case, then have the two inside case fans point to??? and then just have the rear fan blowing air out ? As you can see I could really use some help loll. I am definitely up for any suggestions/opinions and even better fans if the ones I have picked aren't already the best.

Edit: so would something like this work?


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Both. Low rpm and system is idling. My fan speeds are automatically adjusted by Speedfan.
> Actually I noticed the avg idling temp is lower, but there is much more fluctuation. I actually had a hard time squeezing the ty-140 into the D14. Maybe I'm getting contact or rub although I don't hear such a thing and rpms don't reflect that.
> Also the top mount in my case causes a bit of vibration. It is one of those snap-on brackets so I'm not sure not to get it to stop that. Once I apply pressure against the frame of the fan, the noise goes away.


If you did said squeezing while the D14 was still mounted on the M/B inside the case there's a chance it's not properly centered/aligned. I'd take out the m/b and remount the TY-140 so you can see everything. When you say top mount of your case are you referring to the top panel? If the vibration noise goes away when putting pressure on the fans on the D14 I don't think it's the top panel. Is the removable m/b tray secured nice and tight?


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> If you did said squeezing while the D14 was still mounted on the M/B inside the case there's a chance it's not properly centered/aligned. I'd take out the m/b and remount the TY-140 so you can see everything. When you say top mount of your case are you referring to the top panel? If the vibration noise goes away when putting pressure on the fans on the D14 I don't think it's the top panel. Is the removable m/b tray secured nice and tight?


I plan to dismantling my case during the weekend to move my top GT into that front mount. I have to dismantle until I can do that - troublesome I know! So that means I have to reseat the D14 anway. It probably got misaligned because I noticed my temps have been soaring to 50C right at start up which makes no sense at all. That has never happened before.

I was referring to the top fan causing the top mount to vibrate. It could possible disappear once I switch the fans but in case it doesn't, I'm not sure what to do. I was thinking about using some sort of rubber gasket, but the fan is pretty flushed with the mount.


----------



## solsamurai

I see. If you haven't already tried it rubber fan screws or fan mounts may help. You could also try the rubber gaskets you mentioned...possibly around the holes the top panel snaps into? Take your time and good luck!


----------



## ohhgourami

Let me show you how they look: http://techgage.com/reviews/silverstone/tj09/tj09_27.jpg

The mount clips onto the fan from 2 sides. It is completely flushed on the top of the fan to the mount and on the locking part of the clip. I'm really unsure where the vibration is quite coming from on that mount. There must be something loose or a slight gap.


----------



## darksen

man, the more reviews I read the more I can't decide.(since every website seem to have different CMF rating)

what 140mm would you guys pick in order(for the Arc midi to be specific, but any experience with these welcome):

Yate Loon, AC Shark, or Air Penetrator 140mms


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Let me show you how they look:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> http://techgage.com/reviews/silverstone/tj09/tj09_27.jpg
> 
> 
> The mount clips onto the fan from 2 sides. It is completely flushed on the top of the fan to the mount and on the locking part of the clip. I'm really unsure where the vibration is quite coming from on that mount. There must be something loose or a slight gap.


I see. Thanks for the pics and info. Do you think there's enough room for a rubber frame like this?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darksen*
> 
> man, the more reviews I read the more I can't decide.(since every website seem to have different CMF rating)
> what 140mm would you guys pick in order(for the Arc midi to be specific, but any experience with these welcome):
> Yate Loon, AC Shark, or Air Penetrator 140mms


The Yates are decent and don't cost much. Many love them here on OCN. I don't care much for the sharks due to their wide cone of airflow. The Air Penetrators are decent as well. I'd throw in Bitfenix Spectre Pro's to the list They have non-LED versions as well if that's not your thing.


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Let me show you how they look: http://techgage.com/reviews/silverstone/tj09/tj09_27.jpg
> The mount clips onto the fan from 2 sides. It is completely flushed on the top of the fan to the mount and on the locking part of the clip. I'm really unsure where the vibration is quite coming from on that mount. There must be something loose or a slight gap.


You could try lining the perimeter of the fan with some mortite caulking cord. I used it on the fans mounted into the front clips of my Arc Midi. It's generally very handy as dampener in other ways, too.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hackcremo*
> 
> 2700K at 4.7ghz 80'c , 2x GTX 460 at 75'c...


Not bad temperatures at all... as samurai said Cyclone cooling do suck.

I wouldn't go as high as 80°C on that 2700k.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Otterclock*
> 
> You could try lining the perimeter of the fan with some mortite caulking cord. I used it on the fans mounted into the front clips of my Arc Midi. It's generally very handy as dampener in other ways, too.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> I see. Thanks for the pics and info. Do you think there's enough room for a rubber frame like this?


The lining might be harder to do.

I thought about that type of silicon pad but I would have to sand down the frame of the fan to make it fit. Hopefully my slipstream 800 rpm won't vibrate on that mount. Just hoping...


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59*
> 
> Not bad temperatures at all... as samurai said Cyclone cooling do suck.
> I wouldn't go as high as 80°C on that 2700k.


Well I wouldn't say it sucks, lol I really like my R6850.







Just pointing out that the type of cooling on those cards dumps all the air into the case vs. blower type cooling that vents most of the warm air out the back.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> The lining might be harder to do.
> I thought about that type of silicon pad but I would have to sand down the frame of the fan to make it fit. Hopefully my slipstream 800 rpm won't vibrate on that mount. Just hoping...


Let us know how it turns out and good luck!


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Why not experiment and find out?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SSD's can go just about anywhere if you have adhesive velcro or similar. HDD's are another story since you already have a TY-140 in the 5.25 bay.
> *EDIT:* Just found out about the Corsair Vengeance cases. Looks promising for good airflow and even has two 120mm fans mounted behind the HDD cages.


Anybody tried it before though? How will I be able to mount the 3.5" HDD in the 5.25" bay if ever I proceed with this idea?


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Anybody tried it before though? How will I be able to mount the 3.5" HDD in the 5.25" bay if ever I proceed with this idea?


Has anyone tried mounting SSD's in unusual places? It's all over OCN, lol. HDDs can be mounted in the 5.25 bay with stuff like this and this.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Has anyone tried mounting SSD's in unusual places? It's all over OCN, lol. HDDs can be mounted in the 5.25 bay with stuff like this and this.


But I have a TY-140 on my 5.25" bay, will the HDD still fit there?


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> But I have a TY-140 on my 5.25" bay, will the HDD still fit there?


Oh I see now. Sorry I misunderstood the last post.







It may still work depending on how you orient the drive (power and data side facing front or rear of case). You might have just enough room for everything. You may also have to move the fan as close to the front as possible. Worse case scenario you're out $12-15 .

I had another question about your case: how many of the five front 5.25 slots are occupied atm? I was thinking you could mount the fan higher or lower than the HDD by at least one slot and that could give you all the clearance needed for the HDD.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Oh I see now. Sorry I misunderstood the last post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It may still work depending on how you orient the drive (power and data side facing front or rear of case). You might have just enough room for everything. You may also have to move the fan as close to the front as possible. Worse case scenario you're out $12-15 .
> I had another question about your case: how many of the five front 5.25 slots are occupied atm? I was thinking you could mount the fan higher or lower than the HDD by at least one slot and that could give you all the clearance needed for the HDD.


Well, I still have one slot left above. I was thinking about that but it means I would spend $ to achieve it







That's why I really want to know if it's worth it to remove that HDD cage below? Lol. And is it easy to remove it?


----------



## solsamurai

You might benefit more from mounting another fan on the other side of the HDD cage. Zipties on all corners and your done. Even with the HDD cage gone I wouldn't expect temps to drop anything crazy like 10c. I guess at this point it comes down to how much work are you willing to put into something that may only give a moderate decrease in temps?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> You might benefit more from mounting another fan on the other side of the HDD cage. Zipties on all corners and your done. Even with the HDD cage gone I wouldn't expect temps to drop anything crazy like 10c. I guess at this point it comes down to how much work are you willing to put into something that may only give a moderate decrease in temps?


I have a midcase TY-140 that's ziptied on the HDD cage and blowing on the GPU, yes, is that what you are referring to?


----------



## solsamurai

Yep. For me that would be enough. Your GPU temps really high?

I'm mounting a TY-150 on top of the HDD cage (moved to middle position) in my 650D to lower my GPU temps enough to run Boinc more frequently. Basically the same type of mid-case fan setup you have now minus the large HDD cage in front. If I experience a huge drop in temps I'll let you know. That would indicate the open space between the front 200mm intake and the mid-case fan really helps increase airflow. As it stands now the airflow with just the front intake is not strong enough when pulled through the front filter to keep my GPU temps where I'd like them to be....while Folding/Boinc'ing I mean.










Spoiler: Images of my case for reference:


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Yep. For me that would be enough. Your GPU temps really high?
> I'm mounting a TY-150 on top of the HDD cage (moved to middle position) in my 650D to lower my GPU temps enough to run Boinc more frequently. Basically the same type of mid-case fan setup you have now minus the large HDD cage in front. If I experience a huge drop in temps I'll let you know. That would indicate the open space between the front 200mm intake and the mid-case fan really helps increase airflow. As it stands now the airflow with just the front intake is not strong enough when pulled through the front filter to keep my GPU temps where I'd like them to be....while Folding/Boinc'ing I mean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Images of my case for reference:


It depends on what program I use to bench. If I use the latest version of OCCT, it really does get hot but if I use Heaven I think it reaches around 80°C only. Which do you use?

Hmmm, where exactly do you put that TY-150? I don't see it in your pics?

Here's my case setup:


----------



## solsamurai

I plan on installing the TY-150 this weekend. The pic was the other HDD cage that's not in the case. I did it that way to make installing the fan easier and keep my rig up and running in the meantime. Honestly I really don't care about benchmarks over real-world performance in the applications I use. Boinc and Folding stress my components the most so my highest temps are always from one or the other. I have run OCCT and Prime months ago but can't remember the temps.

A couple things I would try in your shoes: (1) Move the SSD to the highest slot in the HDD cage to allow the front intake and TY-140 to pull more air through the cage. (2) Try disabling that bottom TY-140. The reason behind this suggestion is I'm curious if it's airflow is conflicting with the other TY-140. Or (3, I guess, lol) raise the position of the TY-140 on the HDD cage and see if that helps any.

Lots of little adjustments to try...if your temps are good while doing non-benching tasks and this feels like too much to take on atm I'd say spend the weekend playing some games instead. Clash of Heroes is free-to-play this weekend on Steam.


----------



## ohhgourami

OK I just finished rearranging things in my rig. I lubed up my fans with Bones Speed Cream (I can't find the bearing opening for the TY-140) and it doesn't seem to help with noise for the GTs but I think it helped a bit for the SS-800s. I realized I put way too much thermal paste last time and my temps dropped by ~6C and now my GPU is much cooler. The SS-800 also doesn't vibrate on the top mount (so glad!).

I also cleaned up some cables for you solsamurai!


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> OK I just finished rearranging things in my rig. I lubed up my fans with Bones Speed Cream (I can't find the bearing opening for the TY-140) and it doesn't seem to help with noise for the GTs but I think it helped a bit for the SS-800s. I realized I put way too much thermal paste last time and my temps dropped by ~6C and now my GPU is much cooler. The SS-800 also doesn't vibrate on the top mount (so glad!).
> I also cleaned up some cables for you solsamurai!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

































...nuff said. So glad everything worked out for you! The TY-140's can be taken apart but you have to half-way break a small plastic ring inside the bearing housing. I've seen a couple people on other sites successfully paint and service them but it took a lot more work than I care for atm. I'd love to paint at least the outer housing matte black some day.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> A couple things I would try in your shoes: (1) Move the SSD to the highest slot in the HDD cage to allow the front intake and TY-140 to pull more air through the cage. (2) Try disabling that bottom TY-140. The reason behind this suggestion is I'm curious if it's airflow is conflicting with the other TY-140. Or (3, I guess, lol) raise the position of the TY-140 on the HDD cage and see if that helps any.


1.) But I think the 200mm fan's main airflow is along the top and bottom part of the fan itself and not in the center, right? This is why I kept the SSD in the middle area of the HDD cage. I based this observation when I put my hands in the fan.

2.) Hmmm, ok. How about the side fan, do I need to try to disable it first? It acts as an intake too and is 200mm.

3.) If I raise the mid-case fan (TY-140) won't it bring back hot air to the GPU because it will blow directly towards the inside-case exhause of the GPU heatsink assembly?


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> It depends on what program I use to bench. If I use the latest version of OCCT, it really does get hot but if I use Heaven I think it reaches around 80°C only. Which do you use?
> Hmmm, where exactly do you put that TY-150? I don't see it in your pics?
> Here's my case setup:


How fast is that bottom TY-140 moving?


----------



## Otterclock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> The lining might be harder to do.
> I thought about that type of silicon pad but I would have to sand down the frame of the fan to make it fit. Hopefully my slipstream 800 rpm won't vibrate on that mount. Just hoping...


the mortite cord is like clay or Play-Dough that doesnt dry out. you could make a sculpture out of it. it will stick and fit anywhere. you can pull some off, mush it into any shape, and press it onto the fan; just the corners would probably work. Then when you mount the fan it squeezes into a seal. Don't eat it. It's tempting.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Otterclock*
> 
> How fast is that bottom TY-140 moving?


Around 700 RPM iirc. It should run at low speed only right?


----------



## darksen

did anyone notice temp/airflow after taking just changing out rear fan but not the grill?


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> 1.) But I think the 200mm fan's main airflow is along the top and bottom part of the fan itself and not in the center, right? This is why I kept the SSD in the middle area of the HDD cage. I based this observation when I put my hands in the fan.
> 2.) Hmmm, ok. How about the side fan, do I need to try to disable it first? It acts as an intake too and is 200mm.
> 3.) If I raise the mid-case fan (TY-140) won't it bring back hot air to the GPU because it will blow directly towards the inside-case exhause of the GPU heatsink assembly?


1. Brain fart on my part.








2. I'd leave it be.
3. With it positioned higher it will blow more cool air from the front intake towards the GPU and rear of case. I don't see how it would suck air back towards the front as it is blowing towards the rear.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Around 700 RPM iirc. It should run at low speed only right?


Nope. I was wondering before what RPM it was. Forgot to ask.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darksen*
> 
> did anyone notice temp/airflow after taking just changing out rear fan but not the grill?


In my last case (K62) I removed my rear fan about a month before I got the Nibbler and saw a 1c increase in temps. This will be different in every case. Just give it a shot and see what happens!


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> 1. Brain fart on my part.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. I'd leave it be.
> 3. With it positioned higher it will blow more cool air from the front intake towards the GPU and rear of case. I don't see how it would suck air back towards the front as it is blowing towards the rear.
> Nope. I was wondering before what RPM it was. Forgot to ask.


Is it OK to run the bottom TY-140 off of the PWM signal of my GPU? I have proper cables to do that









Hmmm, because my GTX 560 Ti blows hot air towards the middle of my case, right? So when the mid-case TY-140 blows directly towards that area, the hot air being exhausted out of the same area will be forced back?


----------



## darksen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> The Yates are decent and don't cost much. Many love them here on OCN. I don't care much for the sharks due to their wide cone of airflow. The Air Penetrators are decent as well. I'd throw in Bitfenix Spectre Pro's to the list They have non-LED versions as well if that's not your thing.


I see, the sharks are out. I hear alot of Akasa fans here on OCN too, is THIS any good compared with the rest? (140mm)

and these FENIX are gonna be so sexy with the Arc Midi *Drool* Thanks for the suggestions!


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> 1. Brain fart on my part.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. I'd leave it be.
> 3. With it positioned higher it will blow more cool air from the front intake towards the GPU and rear of case. I don't see how it would suck air back towards the front as it is blowing towards the rear.
> Nope. I was wondering before what RPM it was. Forgot to ask.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it OK to run the bottom TY-140 off of the PWM signal of my GPU? I have proper cables to do that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm, because my GTX 560 Ti blows hot air towards the middle of my case, right? So when the mid-case TY-140 blows directly towards that area, the hot air being exhausted out of the same area will be forced back?
Click to expand...

Make sure you leave your slot covers off so the air can get out.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Is it OK to run the bottom TY-140 off of the PWM signal of my GPU? I have proper cables to do that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm, because my GTX 560 Ti blows hot air towards the middle of my case, right? So when the mid-case TY-140 blows directly towards that area, the hot air being exhausted out of the same area will be forced back?


Sorry I don't know enough about using different fans with GPU's like that.







I see your point about how your card vents warm air. To quote the OP "Air goes where you push it." You may be surprised by the results...or maybe not.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darksen*
> 
> I see, the sharks are out. I hear alot of Akasa fans here on OCN too, is THIS any good compared with the rest? (140mm)
> and these FENIX are gonna be so sexy with the Arc Midi *Drool* Thanks for the suggestions!


Never tried Akasa fans but have used their PWM splitters.







I actually was referring to the Bitfenix Spectre Pro fans but have also heard great things about the original Spectres. You're right, they will look nice in the Arc Midi for sure!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Make sure you leave your slot covers off so the air can get out.


This too!


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Make sure you leave your slot covers off so the air can get out.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Sorry I don't know enough about using different fans with GPU's like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see your point about how your card vents warm air. To quote the OP "Air goes where you push it." You may be surprised by the results...or maybe not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never tried Akasa fans but have used their PWM splitters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually was referring to the Bitfenix Spectre Pro fans but have also heard great things about the original Spectres. You're right, they will look nice in the Arc Midi for sure!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This too!


My slot covers are off already, no problem with that







Here's my case setup again:










Hmmm, ehume what do you think of the suggestion of sosamurai of raising my mid-case TY-140 to directly blow air to the card vents where warm air is exhausted?


----------



## JTHMfreak

That setup looks pretty nice


----------



## solsamurai

@kevindd992002, any progress to report? Just curious.







I finally got rid of that annoying stock 200mm fan up top in my 650D. For now using the stock 120mm at 5v in the top front position and it's surprisingly quiet.







Temps improved by ~1-2c as well. Now all I can hear is the air moving through my case which doesn't bother me at all. Still looking for a good (non-TY-140/150) 140mm fan to replace the stock 120.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> @kevindd992002, any progress to report? Just curious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I finally got rid of that annoying stock 200mm fan up top in my 650D. For now using the stock 120mm at 5v in the top front position and it's surprisingly quiet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Temps improved by ~1-2c as well. Now all I can hear is the air moving through my case which doesn't bother me at all. Still looking for a good (non-TY-140/150) 140mm fan to replace the stock 120.


Haven't tried fiddling with my setup yet since I'm caught up at work, lol. I'll report back as soon as I'm able to do your recommendations above. Thanks man. Goodluck with your setup, btw.


----------



## solsamurai

Thanks and you too!


----------



## samwiches

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> @kevindd992002, any progress to report? Just curious.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I finally got rid of that annoying stock 200mm fan up top in my 650D. For now using the stock 120mm at 5v in the top front position and it's surprisingly quiet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Temps improved by ~1-2c as well. Now all I can hear is the air moving through my case which doesn't bother me at all. Still looking for a good (non-TY-140/150) 140mm fan to replace the stock 120.


I've had my eye on this one for awhile (Deepcool UF140): http://atreview.net/en/casefan/uf140/

The 120 is nice. Both cost a little too much, even with the best deals around $20.


----------



## solsamurai

Interesting. Thanks for the heads up. What I've noticed with each fan I've tried is it's a completely different story noise-wise once you place them behind air filters or honey comb mesh like my case has. The overall noise is greatly altered and usually in my experience enhances all the most annoying aspects of that fans particular bearing, lol. I'm looking into fans that spin at lower RPMs and can still move a decent amount of air. For me price doesn't matter if the end result is what I'm trying to achieve.


----------



## samwiches

The Deepcool's are fully rubber framed. There is no noise from the 120--just air. (edit: of course there is noise, but not from inside the case).

They're also branded as Logisys, and some other name in a foreign language I can't remember.

I remember, it's Alpenfohn: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYQXIvGuJwQ


----------



## solsamurai

It all changes once you place them behind different kinds of mesh or filters. For example in my last case (Lancool K62) I had a TY-140 mounted with foam in the 5.25 bay. All I could really hear was the sound of the airflow. That was with my ear about an inch or two away from the front mesh air filter. The top intake only had to pull air through the top vent slots so it was relatively quiet at 100% as well.

Now in the 650D everything changed. I used the same top intake fan (140mm zigmatek) up top and it made a horrid motor sound, what was going on? I tried two others of the same model with equally dismal results. Next was the TY-140 and TY-150, both mounted with rubber screws. This time it was a very noticeable buzzing like sound.







At this point I had figured out it was the honey comb style top mesh that was changing the noise characteristic of the fan bearings and other sounds. To my surprise last night the stock 120mm that came with the case was actually decently quiet...but at 5-7v. So now I'm looking for fans that perform well at lower RPMs and place nice with honey comb mesh. Fun times.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> It all changes once you place them behind different kinds of mesh or filters. For example in my last case (Lancool K62) I had a TY-140 mounted with foam in the 5.25 bay. All I could really hear was the sound of the airflow. That was with my ear about an inch or two away from the front mesh air filter. The top intake only had to pull air through the top vent slots so it was relatively quiet at 100% as well.
> Now in the 650D everything changed. I used the same top intake fan (140mm zigmatek) up top and it made a horrid motor sound, what was going on? I tried two others of the same model with equally dismal results. Next was the TY-140 and TY-150, both mounted with rubber screws. This time it was a very noticeable buzzing like sound.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At this point I had figured out it was the honey comb style top mesh that was changing the noise characteristic of the fan bearings and other sounds. To my surprise last night the stock 120mm that came with the case was actually decently quiet...but at 5-7v. So now I'm looking for fans that perform well at lower RPMs and place nice with honey comb mesh. Fun times.


Have you tried Slipstreams? TY-140 has a soft ticking sound, but it shouldn't have this noticeable buzz (unless yours is defective).


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Have you tried Slipstreams? TY-140 has a soft ticking sound, but it shouldn't have this noticeable buzz (unless yours is defective).


Again it's the top mesh that's causing all the problems. I know this b/c the fan sounds fine on it's own outside the case. I've read about the webs the slipstreams don't do well in horizontal orientation. Have you used them horizontally?


----------



## ohhgourami

I do use one horizontally. I use it as my top fan and I have good results with it. It doesn't cause my top mount to vibrate like my GT did. Completely inaudible at 800rpm even with mesh above it. Apply some oil to the bearings just to be safe.


----------



## solsamurai

I will add that fan to my list of potentials, thanks for the suggestion.









Just to clarify are you talking about the 140mm Kaze Maru?


----------



## samwiches

You're lucky if you have a sleeve fan that runs the same in both orientations. Most of the time horizontal mounting means vibration, leaking and generally just wearing out and getting loud over time (like a whole year, but still).

Whoever is talking about the Kaze Maru, they're awesome. I have two of the first ones (round frame) but they're also sleeve bearing fans. Go for anything but sleeve bearings for a top or bottom fan if you can. There are plenty of high quality options.


----------



## solsamurai

I plan to try ball bearing types first. Thanks for the info.


----------



## ehume

KM's were great. KM2's are a lot better.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> KM's were great. KM2's are a lot better.


KM2's are what I'm looking at. What are your thoughts on the sleeve bearings for horizontal intake?


----------



## Jolly Roger

I just pulled the trigger on one of these. Any one have experience?


----------



## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> KM2's are what I'm looking at. What are your thoughts on the sleeve bearings for horizontal intake?


Sleeves are the worst for horizontal intake....Says my research. I bought the above mentioned fan for horizontal mounting specifically.


----------



## ehume

I used a KM for a top intake for a long time -- up until the TY-140 came out and I could hook it up with PWM.

Output is key. Sideways is OK. Down is generally but not always OK. Upward is rarely OK.

KM2's -- I can speak to performance: see items 1 and 4 in my sig. As for longevity, I know months, not years.

If you pre-lubricate and re-lubricate your fans (see my sig) you will get a longer life out of them.

G'night.


----------



## ohhgourami

I was talking about the 120mm one. I have no experience with the 140mm. I was interested in trying but after getting my TY-140, I didn't bother. Plus I really needed PWM.


----------



## kevindd992002

@ehume

I would really appreciate it if you gave me some comments on my post here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1041926/how-to-decide-on-a-case-for-air-cooling-warning-pics/990#post_16982974

Thanks


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> Sleeves are the worst for horizontal intake....Says my research. I bought the above mentioned fan for horizontal mounting specifically.


I'm very interested in how that turns out. Let us know!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I used a KM for a top intake for a long time -- up until the TY-140 came out and I could hook it up with PWM.
> 
> Output is key. Sideways is OK. Down is generally but not always OK. Upward is rarely OK.
> 
> KM2's -- I can speak to performance: see items 1 and 4 in my sig. As for longevity, I know months, not years.
> 
> If you pre-lubricate and re-lubricate your fans (see my sig) you will get a longer life out of them.
> 
> G'night.


Noted and thanks.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> I was talking about the 120mm one. I have no experience with the 140mm. I was interested in trying but after getting my TY-140, I didn't bother. Plus I really needed PWM.


Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## GAMERIG

this is awesome guide!


----------



## carinae

Hello again, I'm thinking of getting my side panel modified to accomodate a 200mm aimed at the space between D14 and 5" drive bays. So, I'll end up with a [1]front-top fan, [2]5"bay-front fan and [3]side-fan-(lined up with the top fan). Do you think the F12-F12-P14 D14 can use up all that air? Does the side-oriented fan matter compared to a straight-front-tunnel fan? Or should I take out the front-bay fans? It gets really hot here during the summer. Thanks for the input guys.


----------



## solsamurai

I'd say side intakes matter greatly. My experience with my last case was it worked better at lower RPMs. When I had it blowing at 100% temps were about 2-3c higher. I concluded the higher airflow was conflicting with the front to back airflow config. Replaced it with a lower RPM fan and temps dropped.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Make sure you leave your slot covers off so the air can get out.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Sorry I don't know enough about using different fans with GPU's like that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I see your point about how your card vents warm air. To quote the OP "Air goes where you push it." You may be surprised by the results...or maybe not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never tried Akasa fans but have used their PWM splitters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I actually was referring to the Bitfenix Spectre Pro fans but have also heard great things about the original Spectres. You're right, they will look nice in the Arc Midi for sure!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This too!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> My slot covers are off already, no problem with that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's my case setup again:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm, ehume what do you think of the suggestion of sosamurai of raising my mid-case TY-140 to directly blow air to the card vents where warm air is exhausted?
Click to expand...

I think you'd be better off with a side panel fan blowing on them. But raising your mid-case fan wouldn't hurt. You'd do best to compare your gpu temps.


----------



## Molybdenum

Here's how my case looks, my intake fans are outlined in blue. The top front intake and the one behind the HDD cage are 120 mm low rpm (19 dBA/800 rpm, ~40 CFM), the intake in front of the cage is a sickle flow 120 mm with resistors so that it is quieter and slower (those things are silent when they run with no resistance, but REALLY loud if there's any sort of filter/anything to impede airflow). The top is a 140 mm fan, also with a resistor. I cut out the honeycomb and added a wiregrill with a homemade filter on top. Ignore the part about rear exhaust position, it's a pic from a different test I did, comparing rear outtake vs front intake (front intake resulted in an average 1.3 °C lower temp, from 56.2 to 54.9 averages)

The back is cut open, PCI slot covers are off, but I don't have any fans blowing out. My GPU runs warm (idles around 49 °C w/ 22 °C ambient), but that's due to the crappy heatsink on it. I'm more concerned about CPU temp (folding and such). Anything I can do to improve my temps? Thanks


----------



## solsamurai

CPU cooler upgrade time.







Three heat pipes is not going to get you very far.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Molybdenum*
> 
> Here's how my case looks, my intake fans are outlined in blue. The top front intake and the one behind the HDD cage are 120 mm low rpm (19 dBA/800 rpm, ~40 CFM), the intake in front of the cage is a sickle flow 120 mm with resistors so that it is quieter and slower (those things are silent when they run with no resistance, but REALLY loud if there's any sort of filter/anything to impede airflow). The top is a 140 mm fan, also with a resistor. I cut out the honeycomb and added a wiregrill with a homemade filter on top. Ignore the part about rear exhaust position, it's a pic from a different test I did, comparing rear outtake vs front intake (front intake resulted in an average 1.3 °C lower temp, from 56.2 to 54.9 averages)
> 
> The back is cut open, PCI slot covers are off, but I don't have any fans blowing out. My GPU runs warm (idles around 49 °C w/ 22 °C ambient), but that's due to the crappy heatsink on it. I'm more concerned about CPU temp (folding and such). Anything I can do to improve my temps? Thanks


Three-pipe heatsink. That could stand an upgrade. But the cheapest things you can do are to drop your two 5.25 devices down to the bottom two slots. There's enough room for your graphics card and those two devices to abut.

Then put your upper front intake fan in the top three slots where it has a straight shot at your cpu heatsink. You might even have room for a 140mm fan there if your 5.25 bay is topless.

Cut out those slot pillars. They impede airflow getting out from your gpu.

Bottom intake fan. Side panel intake. With the slot pillars gone the air will just flow out.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I think you'd be better off with a side panel fan blowing on them. But raising your mid-case fan wouldn't hurt. You'd do best to compare your gpu temps.


Ok. But what happens to the hot air that's exhausted out from the heatsink assembly of the video card into the mid area of the case if I raise my mid-case fan directly blowing in that area? Won't it be counter-productive because hot air (from the video card heatsink) and cooler air (from the mid-case TY140) are colliding each other? In this case, I think the cooler air has more velocity and will push the hot air back to the heatsink which could have a negative impact. What do you think?

Is it also fine if I get the PWM signal of the video card and make that as the PWM signal for both the bottom intake and mid-case fan? Or is it recommended to keep the bottom intake fan at low speed?


----------



## Molybdenum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Molybdenum*
> 
> Here's how my case looks, my intake fans are outlined in blue. The top front intake and the one behind the HDD cage are 120 mm low rpm (19 dBA/800 rpm, ~40 CFM), the intake in front of the cage is a sickle flow 120 mm with resistors so that it is quieter and slower (those things are silent when they run with no resistance, but REALLY loud if there's any sort of filter/anything to impede airflow). The top is a 140 mm fan, also with a resistor. I cut out the honeycomb and added a wiregrill with a homemade filter on top. Ignore the part about rear exhaust position, it's a pic from a different test I did, comparing rear outtake vs front intake (front intake resulted in an average 1.3 °C lower temp, from 56.2 to 54.9 averages)
> *snip*
> 
> The back is cut open, PCI slot covers are off, but I don't have any fans blowing out. My GPU runs warm (idles around 49 °C w/ 22 °C ambient), but that's due to the crappy heatsink on it. I'm more concerned about CPU temp (folding and such). Anything I can do to improve my temps? Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Three-pipe heatsink. That could stand an upgrade. But the cheapest things you can do are to drop your two 5.25 devices down to the bottom two slots. There's enough room for your graphics card and those two devices to abut.
> 
> Then put your upper front intake fan in the top three slots where it has a straight shot at your cpu heatsink. You might even have room for a 140mm fan there if your 5.25 bay is topless.
> 
> Cut out those slot pillars. They impede airflow getting out from your gpu.
> 
> Bottom intake fan. Side panel intake. With the slot pillars gone the air will just flow out.
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> CPU cooler upgrade time.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Three heat pipes is not going to get you very far.


Thanks both of you! I'll check out a new HSF, I was drawn to the Xigmatek Gaia because it was $5 after MIR, but they never sent it







, I'll look into something different as this would be the best way to improve temps.

My case is kinda crap, the picture doesn't show it, but I only have 3 5.25" slots, the bottom that looks like a 4th is one for card readers, so I have the fan pulling through that slot and one 5.25". The top plastic holder is just there for looks I guess, I can't fit anything there (it's only half height). Maybe If I feel brave with my dremel I'll try to change it into a 5.25" and put my 2 things there.
I'll knock out those slot pillars the next chance I get, thanks.
Hmm, side intake might be noisy, but I'll see if I can do bottom. Non-modular PSU in a case with no room behind the motherboard tray is a bad situation for a bottom intake fan.

Thanks again, it's much appreciated.


----------



## WolfssFang

since i dont want to start a new thread for a very repetitive question i will ask it here







I have a nzxt switch 810 with a custom liquid cooling for the cpu. Atm i have 4 fans in the front pushing air in and 6 fans up top on the 360mm rad in push/pull as a exhaust. Would it be better to have the fans as intakes and create positive pressure in my case? I know having them as intake/exhaust wont change temps, also have the 680 as a exhaust since it is the ref design.

*edit* i got a 140mm fan at back as a exhaust


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Molybdenum*
> 
> Thanks both of you! I'll check out a new HSF, I was drawn to the Xigmatek Gaia because it was $5 after MIR, but they never sent it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , I'll look into something different as this would be the best way to improve temps.
> My case is kinda crap, the picture doesn't show it, but I only have 3 5.25" slots, the bottom that looks like a 4th is one for card readers, so I have the fan pulling through that slot and one 5.25". The top plastic holder is just there for looks I guess, I can't fit anything there (it's only half height). Maybe If I feel brave with my dremel I'll try to change it into a 5.25" and put my 2 things there.
> I'll knock out those slot pillars the next chance I get, thanks.
> Hmm, side intake might be noisy, but I'll see if I can do bottom. Non-modular PSU in a case with no room behind the motherboard tray is a bad situation for a bottom intake fan.
> Thanks again, it's much appreciated.


Never buy anything for the rebate. It's just an added bonus if you happen to get it.







Cosair is the only company so far that has honored every rebate I've sent (3). If your temps don't improve after making various cuts and adding fans the next step would be a new case IMO. Space behind the m/b and more fan slots could make all the difference.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WolfssFang*
> 
> since i dont want to start a new thread for a very repetitive question i will ask it here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a nzxt switch 810 with a custom liquid cooling for the cpu. Atm i have 4 fans in the front pushing air in and 6 fans up top on the 360mm rad in push/pull as a exhaust. Would it be better to have the fans as intakes and create positive pressure in my case? I know having them as intake/exhaust wont change temps, also have the 680 as a exhaust since it is the ref design.
> *edit* i got a 140mm fan at back as a exhaust


I say try it! Switch top fans on the rad to flow into the case, remove your PCI slot covers and cut out the rear mesh.


----------



## WolfssFang

Wait why cut out the rear mesh


----------



## solsamurai

HUGE increase in airflow. The mesh stops quite a bit of air from being able to freely escape. You'll experience a major increase in CFM and decrease in noise.







Check out the Nibbler Club in my sig for more info.


----------



## WolfssFang

thanks, looks like im going positive case and going to buy a nibbler tomorrow.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WolfssFang*
> 
> thanks, looks like im going positive case and going to buy a nibbler tomorrow.


Sounds good. Take your time with the nibbler. IMO it's best to make the cuts with the case empty. The 'nibbles' are small and can easily fall behind something like the PSU or m/b. Cheap wire cutters may also be needed to make a starting hole for the Nibbler.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Ok. But what happens to the hot air that's exhausted out from the heatsink assembly of the video card into the mid area of the case if I raise my mid-case fan directly blowing in that area? Won't it be counter-productive because hot air (from the video card heatsink) and cooler air (from the mid-case TY140) are colliding each other? In this case, I think the cooler air has more velocity and will push the hot air back to the heatsink which could have a negative impact. What do you think?
> Is it also fine if I get the PWM signal of the video card and make that as the PWM signal for both the bottom intake and mid-case fan? Or is it recommended to keep the bottom intake fan at low speed?


Ehume, any ideas?


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Ehume, any ideas?


what you are describing is recirculation of hot exhaust air. it's not ideal, however when you inject cool air (TY140) it mixes with the hot exhaust air of the GPU and makes the average air temp cooler then the raw exhaust air. you DO recirculate back SOME of the heat, but the amount of heat recirculated depends on how well your airflow design is inside the case. if you have good airflow inside the case, the recirculated heat is kept to a minimal and the effect is negligible. however if you have poor airflow inside the case where the heat is trapped in the case, then you have a really big problem because the thermal short circuit created by the internal exhaust GPU will simply keep getting hotter.

this is the main reason why ehume recommends cutting out the rear grill with a nibbler to reduce airflow resistance so you don't have a heat pocket developing where you don't want heat to hang around. ehume believes in "positive air flow" regardless of pressure, however, personally i'm more of a positive pressure type of person and prefer to have some pressure so i can direct the airflow exactly where i want it to go by strategically placing exhaust ports. both methods work well for cooling, it's just a difference in opinion / methodology. ehume's method prevents any heat build up, my method accelerates airflow at strategic locations where heat tend to gather/linger w/o additional fans.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> what you are describing is recirculation of hot exhaust air. it's not ideal, however when you inject cool air (TY140) it mixes with the hot exhaust air of the GPU and makes the average air temp cooler then the raw exhaust air. you DO recirculate back SOME of the heat, but the amount of heat recirculated depends on how well your airflow design is inside the case. if you have good airflow inside the case, the recirculated heat is kept to a minimal and the effect is negligible. however if you have poor airflow inside the case where the heat is trapped in the case, then you have a really big problem because the thermal short circuit created by the internal exhaust GPU will simply keep getting hotter.
> this is the main reason why ehume recommends cutting out the rear grill with a nibbler to reduce airflow resistance so you don't have a heat pocket developing where you don't want heat to hang around. ehume believes in "positive air flow" regardless of pressure, however, personally i'm more of a positive pressure type of person and prefer to have some pressure so i can direct the airflow exactly where i want it to go by strategically placing exhaust ports. both methods work well for cooling, it's just a difference in opinion / methodology. ehume's method prevents any heat build up, my method accelerates airflow at strategic locations where heat tend to gather/linger w/o additional fans.


Thanks for the reply. Again, this is my cases' setup:










It already has almost all of ehume's suggestions with positive airflow. My only concern now is whether to raise my TY140 or not as suggested by solsamurai. I'm just curious on the comments of other users regarding this. So if I understand you right, you agree with this suggestion?


----------



## Molybdenum

I'd raise the fan. It will help with the graphics card temps as well as move it further from the bottom fan, so that the two aren't interfering with each other. As it is now, they're blowing air at exactly the same place, but from different directions, which could slow it down. An inch or two would really help get more air moving and help to better push air past the graphics card..

You could probably test this by running 5-10 minutes of your favorite GPU benchmark or stressing program, move the fan up, then repeat. This would give you concrete data as to which is better, and would take less than 30 minutes and use a ziptie or two. Let us know if you test it, I'd be curious as to how much difference it makes


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Molybdenum*
> 
> I'd raise the fan. It will help with the graphics card temps as well as move it further from the bottom fan, so that the two aren't interfering with each other. As it is now, they're blowing air at exactly the same place, but from different directions, which could slow it down. An inch or two would really help get more air moving and help to better push air past the graphics card..
> You could probably test this by running 5-10 minutes of your favorite GPU benchmark or stressing program, move the fan up, then repeat. This would give you concrete data as to which is better, and would take less than 30 minutes and use a ziptie or two. Let us know if you test it, I'd be curious as to how much difference it makes


Right







I can test it as early as next week. I'll post my findings by then. Thanks!


----------



## solsamurai

Sounds good. I agree with a quick ziptie test first.


----------



## ehume

I'd agree: raise the fan. Before you do that, test the temps in its current config, then test the temps with the raised-fan config.

One thing I learned somewhere is that non-aerodynamic obstructions can actually interact. That's why I removed my own slot pillars.

One thing you might try is a temporary cardboard partition that separates the cpu space from the gpu space. Then you wouldn't have to worry about mixing.

Sometime I wonder if cases that allow two side panel fans would be useful in the following way: one fan that blows air from outside into the air intake for the gpu card; another side panel fan set forward, to draw the hot air ejected from the gpu out of the case. Maybe even a duct that drives air into the gpu card air intake . . .

Dunno exactly. Since gpu cards set up complex airflows, coping with them is comparably complex.


----------



## solsamurai

Wouldn't the side intake fan pull in warm air expelled by the other? That seems to be the consensus around the internets.


----------



## plum

For the HAF912, do you think it's a better idea to have a CM BM at the rear exhaust fan slot and the TY-140 in the 5.25 bay or the opposite? only thing is, I can't fit the TY-140 to the back, so it has to be closer to the heatsink (if that makes any difference for intake), whereas I can push the CM BM all the way back to the end.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Wouldn't the side intake fan pull in warm air expelled by the other? That seems to be the consensus around the internets.


It might, which is why I'd want to use louvers sending exhaust up and pulling intake from below.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plum*
> 
> For the HAF912, do you think it's a better idea to have a CM BM at the rear exhaust fan slot and the TY-140 in the 5.25 bay or the opposite? only thing is, I can't fit the TY-140 to the back, so it has to be closer to the heatsink (if that makes any difference for intake), whereas I can push the CM BM all the way back to the end.


By all means put the 140mm fan in front. Personally, I'd go with a nibbler, cut out the rear grill so you won't have to deal with the noise of a rear fan. One less fan.


----------



## Nebacanezer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> -snip-


I see I am not the only one who took out unused HDD racks for better airflow from the intake fan


----------



## plum

Hmm tried it, didn't seem to make much of a difference... might have to go to the next step and just cut out that grill. For people who did it, what kind of temperature drop did you get? I'm hoping ~3c for it to be worth it, but I guess the reduced noise is a plus too


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I'd agree: raise the fan. Before you do that, test the temps in its current config, then test the temps with the raised-fan config.
> 
> One thing I learned somewhere is that non-aerodynamic obstructions can actually interact. That's why I removed my own slot pillars.
> 
> One thing you might try is a temporary cardboard partition that separates the cpu space from the gpu space. Then you wouldn't have to worry about mixing.
> 
> Sometime I wonder if cases that allow two side panel fans would be useful in the following way: one fan that blows air from outside into the air intake for the gpu card; another side panel fan set forward, to draw the hot air ejected from the gpu out of the case. Maybe even a duct that drives air into the gpu card air intake . . .
> 
> Dunno exactly. Since gpu cards set up complex airflows, coping with them is comparably complex.


Ok. Actually the pic I've posted earlier is not yet updated. I alreaady have a stiff plastic in between the CPU space and GPU space. It is exactly leveled with the board of the GPU, is that the right way to do it? With that stiff plastic installed, I'm assuming it is still beneficial to raise the TY140, yes?

Also, how do you remove those pillars?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nebacanezer*
> 
> I see I am not the only one who took out unused HDD racks for better airflow from the intake fan


But if I do that, I won't be able to mount my TY140 in the mid part of the case since it won't cling into anything


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nebacanezer*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> -snip-
> 
> 
> 
> I see I am not the only one who took out unused HDD racks for better airflow from the intake fan
Click to expand...



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plum*
> 
> Hmm tried it, didn't seem to make much of a difference... might have to go to the next step and just cut out that grill. For people who did it, what kind of temperature drop did you get? I'm hoping ~3c for it to be worth it, but I guess the reduced noise is a plus too


I do it for the noise: one less fan at the back and all the fans can be lower rpm.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I'd agree: raise the fan. Before you do that, test the temps in its current config, then test the temps with the raised-fan config.
> 
> One thing I learned somewhere is that non-aerodynamic obstructions can actually interact. That's why I removed my own slot pillars.
> 
> One thing you might try is a temporary cardboard partition that separates the cpu space from the gpu space. Then you wouldn't have to worry about mixing.
> 
> Sometime I wonder if cases that allow two side panel fans would be useful in the following way: one fan that blows air from outside into the air intake for the gpu card; another side panel fan set forward, to draw the hot air ejected from the gpu out of the case. Maybe even a duct that drives air into the gpu card air intake . . .
> 
> Dunno exactly. Since gpu cards set up complex airflows, coping with them is comparably complex.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. Actually the pic I've posted earlier is not yet updated. I alreaady have a stiff plastic in between the CPU space and GPU space. It is exactly leveled with the board of the GPU, is that the right way to do it? With that stiff plastic installed, I'm assuming it is still beneficial to raise the TY140, yes?
> 
> Also, how do you remove those pillars?
Click to expand...

How is that partition working out? Stiff plastic is definitely the way to make a permanent partition.

Raising and lowering the TY-140? Only testing will tell whether you get higher or lower temps.

I removed my slot pillars with this nibbler.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I'd agree: raise the fan. Before you do that, test the temps in its current config, then test the temps with the raised-fan config.
> 
> One thing I learned somewhere is that non-aerodynamic obstructions can actually interact. That's why I removed my own slot pillars.
> 
> One thing you might try is a temporary cardboard partition that separates the cpu space from the gpu space. Then you wouldn't have to worry about mixing.
> 
> Sometime I wonder if cases that allow two side panel fans would be useful in the following way: one fan that blows air from outside into the air intake for the gpu card; another side panel fan set forward, to draw the hot air ejected from the gpu out of the case. Maybe even a duct that drives air into the gpu card air intake . . .
> 
> Dunno exactly. Since gpu cards set up complex airflows, coping with them is comparably complex.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. Actually the pic I've posted earlier is not yet updated. I alreaady have a stiff plastic in between the CPU space and GPU space. It is exactly leveled with the board of the GPU, is that the right way to do it? With that stiff plastic installed, I'm assuming it is still beneficial to raise the TY140, yes?
> 
> Also, how do you remove those pillars?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How is that partition working out? Stiff plastic is definitely the way to make a permanent partition.
> 
> Raising and lowering the TY-140? Only testing will tell whether you get higher or lower temps.
> 
> I removed my slot pillars with this nibbler.
Click to expand...

Not really sure if the stiff plastic it dropped my CPU/GPU temps since I did not test before and after installing it. But basically, I know it will be beneficial, right?

Ok, I will just test raising the TY140 this coming week.

If you remove your slot pillars, you're removing the potential adding any more PCI cards or anything in the case, right?


----------



## samwiches

You can cut out the slots. The mounting area is still there to screw into.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *samwiches*
> 
> You can cut out the slots. The mounting area is still there to screw into.


Oh ok. Is there any simpler way than buying a nibbler?


----------



## solsamurai

Yes but the cuts will not be as clean.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Yes but the cuts will not be as clean.


Ah ok. If so, what tool do I need to use? I can't afford to buy a nibbler just to cut off once and be done with the tool.


----------



## solsamurai

Then just wait 'til you can.







To me it's not worth it if you have small metal pieces and ugly bent cuts all over. Using a dremel is the only other good option IMO and that would require removing everything from your case.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Then just wait 'til you can.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To me it's not worth it if you have small metal pieces and ugly bent cuts all over. Using a dremel is the only other good option IMO and that would require removing everything from your case.


With a nibbler I can do it without practically removing anything from the case?


----------



## ehume

Any cards you add fasten to the rails where the screws are. I perceive them as "above" the motherboard, but that rail is just closer to the side panel. The slot pillars do nothing. In fact, if the manufacturer made broader slot covers there would be no use for slot pillars.

But the whole concept of covering the backplane is wrong, unless you want to run a negative pressure case.

Dremels I know little about. What I do know is that a nibbler is one of those rarely used tools that is indispensable when I need it.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Any cards you add fasten to the rails where the screws are. I perceive them as "above" the motherboard, but that rail is just closer to the side panel. The slot pillars do nothing. In fact, if the manufacturer made broader slot covers there would be no use for slot pillars.
> 
> But the whole concept of covering the backplane is wrong, unless you want to run a negative pressure case.
> 
> Dremels I know little about. What I do know is that a nibbler is one of those rarely used tools that is indispensable when I need it.


Right. Does using a nibbler produce metal dust similar to when sawing? Can I practically "nibble" my case without removing the whole motherboard and my precious cable management?

Where can I find the cheapest nibbler available in the market? Will this work?


----------



## justanewguy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Right. Does using a nibbler produce metal dust similar to when sawing? Can I practically "nibble" my case without removing the whole motherboard and my precious cable management?
> Where can I find the cheapest nibbler available in the market? Will this work?


i taped the rear mesh with a tissue and nibbled it. no problem at all.

removing the meshes is the best thing you can do, it will improve your airflow immense


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanewguy*
> 
> i taped the rear mesh with a tissue and nibbled it. no problem at all.
> removing the meshes is the best thing you can do, it will improve your airflow immense


What do you mean you taped the rear mesh with tissue?

Here we go again, here's my case's setup:










As I've said multiple times already in this thread, I already cut the rear mesh a long time ago


----------



## samwiches

I'm guessing you can do the slots with about 30 cuts. The debris is easy to collect--just small tabs that jump out of the tool.

You can find the generic nibbler online for $10 <--- but I have one and it left me with two skinned knuckles after three mesh jobs, and it makes tiny dents alongside the cuts, opposite the side of the panel that you're looking at while cutting.


----------



## ehume

Nibblers nibble. They don't create dust. They create little hunks that have been nibbled off. If you have something to catch the nibbles, great.



I used a Work Mate, lay the case over it, backside down so all the chips just fell out of my case. Didn't remove a thing except my graphic card because I was nibbling its pillars as well. Reached up between the leaves and nibbled away.

I recommend a Klein nibbler. By the time you pay shipping the cheaper one costs almost as much. A guy that bought the cheaper one said it hurt his hands.


----------



## plum

What kind of temperature drop did you people experience before/after mesh grill removal? keeping the other fans at same RPM as well, minus exhaust fan of course


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Nibblers nibble. They don't create dust. They create little hunks that have been nibbled off. If you have something to catch the nibbles, great.
> 
> 
> I used a Work Mate, lay the case over it, backside down so all the chips just fell out of my case. Didn't remove a thing except my graphic card because I was nibbling its pillars as well. Reached up between the leaves and nibbled away.
> 
> I recommend a Klein nibbler. By the time you pay shipping the cheaper one costs almost as much. A guy that bought the cheaper one said it hurt his hands.


Hmm, but the thing is that the guy above who hurt his knuckles, I think, is because of his method of doing it? Not because of the tool itself?

Because with the generic one, I don't see a difference compared to the branded Klein?


----------



## ehume

The guy hurt his hand because the handle was too narrow, I think.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> The guy hurt his hand because the handle was too narrow, I think.


Ah ok. But basically they do the same thing, right?


----------



## ehume

I won't vouch for the cheapie opening as wide as the Klein.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I won't vouch for the cheapie opening as wide as the Klein.


You mean the Klein has a wider opening than the generic one?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I won't vouch for the cheapie opening as wide as the Klein.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean the Klein has a wider opening than the generic one?
Click to expand...

Maybe. Dunno. But with the costs of shipping I try not to take chances.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Maybe. Dunno. But with the costs of shipping I try not to take chances.


But the Klein also has shipping costs which makes its prices higher also?

Here's a video of the generic nibbler in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNAz63vHYDg&feature=player_embedded


----------



## ehume

Looks OK. Having that video makes it less like buying a pig in a poke.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Looks OK. Having that video makes it less like buying a pig in a poke.


Yeah. Do you think it has the same blade width with the Klein?


----------



## samwiches

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Maybe. Dunno. But with the costs of shipping I try not to take chances.
> 
> 
> 
> But the Klein also has shipping costs which makes its prices higher also?
> 
> Here's a video of the generic nibbler in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNAz63vHYDg&feature=player_embedded
Click to expand...

I can say right now that if you use the tool the way that guys is then you will need bandaids for the thumb and for two knuckles. Those black tabs serve as the grip entirely--they are not natural or comfortable at all. And the curved _non-grip_ handle is a terrible idea.

ACE carries the Klein Nibbler if you don't want to pay shipping. Plenty of tool shops have them also.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *samwiches*
> 
> I can say right now that if you use the tool the way that guys is then you will need bandaids for the thumb and for two knuckles. Those black tabs serve as the grip entirely--they are not natural or comfortable at all. And the curved _non-grip_ handle is a terrible idea.
> ACE carries the Klein Nibbler if you don't want to pay shipping. Plenty of tool shops have them also.


Oh ok. I hope I can find one in our local (Philippines) ACE hardware here.


----------



## samwiches

For $25-35 I would just get a cheap jigsaw w/ metal cutting blade.


----------



## psyclum

jigsaw doesn't make clean cuts like a nibbler. especially the cheaper jigsaws.


----------



## samwiches

Yeah, that may be. I'll look out for one with high speed and a low price and try it out.

Jigsaws are pretty important tools anyway. I had an awesome Makita that was stolen out of my car awhile back. (I think it was this one--highly recommend it.)


----------



## kevindd992002

I went to my local ACE and as expected they don't even know what a Nibbler is! They only have those scissor-type shears that cut through thin sheets like roofs (they said?).

What other tool can I use?


----------



## carinae

Hi! For those who have TY-140 fans as intake case fans, I know its the top of the line in terms of cooling but what about the noise level? As far as I've read, some experiences "ticking noise" and although noise isn't a big issue of mine since I have an actual fan that's going to dominate noise coming off the PC. I'm primarily be using the TY-140 as intake fans aiming at HDD, top intake and drive bay-intake. Thank you very much.


----------



## plum

TY 140 are very silent fans for the airflow they're providing, I'll happily vouch for them. There is no ticking noise, only way for there to be one is if it's defective and that can happen with just about any fan


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carinae*
> 
> Hi! For those who have TY-140 fans as intake case fans, I know its the top of the line in terms of cooling but what about the noise level? As far as I've read, some experiences "ticking noise" and although noise isn't a big issue of mine since I have an actual fan that's going to dominate noise coming off the PC. I'm primarily be using the TY-140 as intake fans aiming at HDD, top intake and drive bay-intake. Thank you very much.


Not all of them tick on 12v. Two of my three do not. On all PWM fans but Noctua, the PWM switching causes clicks. Noctua deliberately aimed at that and managed to make fans that don't click at all at any duty. See my review of a number of PWM fans here, or in chapter 7 of item 4 in my sig.

I have a TY-140 as a top intake fan in my case. It runs on the same PWM control as the two fans on my cpu heatsink. I only hear the airflow it makes, even when it spins up because my cpu is loaded up. Wonderful fans.


----------



## ohhgourami

Yup the TY-140 is a very very quiet fan. It has a ticking noise but only when you put your ear up to it. 1m away it's inaudible. The loud ticking ty-140s are defective.


----------



## samwiches

Sometimes "ticking" is caused by a loose label.


----------



## ohhgourami

Anyone have a nice neat way of blocking a top used air vent in cases? A way so it easily adheres and rigid yet flexible in case there are case vibrations. Preferably something that is black to match the vent color so it's not noticeable. Hopefully it requires minimal work.


----------



## a pet rock

I just taped a piece of paper over it. My old case also had some plastic covers that connected over the fans and made it completely unnoticeable. If that's too ghetto, Mountain Mods has fan plates that you screw in like a fan. It says it's clear acrylic, and I didn't see any other options.


----------



## ohhgourami

Piece of paper is too ghetto haha. I currently have a book on top to block airflow. I can't screw them on as I don't have screws. It has snap on mounts.



So I'll just unscrew the snap on mounts and insert something.


----------



## solsamurai

Black card stock paper and double sided mounting tape works well.


----------



## ohhgourami

I suppose that works too. I was thinking along the lines of a thin piece of plastic...


----------



## solsamurai

You could do that but will be a little more work to get the right size. I've used the card stock in two different cases and had great results. I'm still working on my 650D top panel atm but here's a pic of what I did with the K62.



With the top panel on you couldn't see the tape on the sides. No buzzing or other odd noises either.


----------



## ehume

It goes under a shelf.


----------



## ohhgourami

Interesting that you guys cover the vents from the top and not underneath. I suppose it would be cleaner to cover the top. Thanks for the pics.


----------



## solsamurai

I didn't had any bottom vents in the K62 or the 650D.


----------



## ohhgourami

I mean you covered the top of the mesh for the top vent, instead of under the mesh.


----------



## solsamurai

Oh I see. The Lancool K62 doesn't have top mesh. It's basically a big hole underneath. For the 650D I had mounted on the inside and it looked very nice and clean. ATM I have nothing blocking the rear fan position until I figure out a replacement front top intake.



Check out the pics here for see how the top panel looks.


----------



## ohhgourami

Yeah...that doesn't work for me. As my top vents are like this:



It should look the cleanest if I have something under the vent.


----------



## solsamurai

That looks like the individual holes are pretty small. Perhaps you don't need to cover the rear portion? You could do a quick before/after test with some paper and tape to see if it makes a difference.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> I mean you covered the top of the mesh for the top vent, instead of under the mesh.


Ah. Remember, you're talking to a bunch of positive flow folks here. All of our fans are intake. We don't use top fans for exhaust.


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> All of our fans are intake.


LIES!!! your PSU and GPU fans are exhaust


----------



## Struzzin

I just got a 2600K with a Z77 ASRock Extreme 4 and I have a Rosewill Ranger Case. So I just wanted to ask what the best way would be to run the fans ?

Current Idle temps:
CPU - 37 C
MB - 34 C
GPU - 47 C
HDD - 30 C


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> LIES!!! your PSU and GPU fans are exhaust


My PSU fan is facing the bottom of my case pulling air in. So only one exhaust on the GPU for me.







Wait, what about the mid-case fan I'll be installing this weekend? What is that considered?








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Struzzin20*
> 
> I just got a 2600K with a Z77 ASRock Extreme 4 and I have a Rosewill Ranger Case. So I just wanted to ask what the best way would be to run the fans ?
> Current Idle temps:
> CPU - 37 C
> MB - 34 C
> GPU - 47 C
> HDD - 30 C


Need more info like is your CPU/GPU OC'd and how many fans do you have? Also what is your ambient temp? That plays a big role in how far you can go with air cooling.


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Struzzin20*
> 
> I just got a 2600K with a Z77 ASRock Extreme 4 and I have a Rosewill Ranger Case. So I just wanted to ask what the best way would be to run the fans ?
> Current Idle temps:
> CPU - 37 C
> MB - 34 C
> GPU - 47 C
> HDD - 30 C


Assuming you only have stock fans, I would leave your front fan in place, and move your rear exhaust to intake in your 5.25" drive bay. Then make sure your top 140mm fan is in the front slot and intaking, and block off the top back slot. If you're willing to spend more on fans, you could add some side panel fans and mid-case fans as well.

A few other things to note, what heatsink are you using? And idle temps mean almost nothing. The only time they might be important is in comparison to your load temps. To get load temps of CPU run something like Prime95 or Intel Burn Test. To get load temps of GPU run Furmark or OCCT.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> LIES!!! your PSU and GPU fans are exhaust
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My PSU fan is facing the bottom of my case pulling air in. So only one exhaust on the GPU for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, what about the mid-case fan I'll be installing this weekend? What is that considered?
Click to expand...

The fan on a psu is an intake fan -- for the psu. As long as it's facing the outside, it is not pulling air from the inside of the case, and is thus not exhausting it.

He's got you with your gpu fan, at least part of it. The rest goes everywhere.

On my case, the intake fan is an intake.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Struzzin20*
> 
> I just got a 2600K with a Z77 ASRock Extreme 4 and I have a Rosewill Ranger Case. So I just wanted to ask what the best way would be to run the fans ?
> Current Idle temps:
> CPU - 37 C
> MB - 34 C
> GPU - 47 C
> HDD - 30 C
> 
> 
> 
> Assuming you only have stock fans, I would leave your front fan in place, and move your rear exhaust to intake in your 5.25" drive bay. Then make sure your top 140mm fan is in the front slot and intaking, and block off the top back slot. If you're willing to spend more on fans, you could add some side panel fans and mid-case fans as well.
> 
> A few other things to note, what heatsink are you using? And idle temps mean almost nothing. The only time they might be important is in comparison to your load temps. To get load temps of CPU run something like Prime95 or Intel Burn Test. To get load temps of GPU run Furmark or OCCT.
Click to expand...

Good advice.


----------



## solsamurai

So what would my mid-case fan be considered? Inside push?


----------



## Struzzin

I just got it set up so everything is still stock but it seems like its running hot for idle. I have replaced all the fans that came with it with Kingwin CF-012LB 120mm, I have like 10 more of them so I want the best cooling for a nice OC on my 2600K. There is room for 2 120mm on the side and 2 120mm on the top one in front and one in back. I have a Hyper 212+ cooler, My room temp is 76 F and I have fans setup like this picture right now >


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Struzzin20*
> 
> I just got it set up so everything is still stock but it seems like its running hot for idle. I have replaced all the fans that came with it with Kingwin CF-012LB 120mm, I have like 10 more of them so I want the best cooling for a nice OC on my 2600K. There is room for 2 120mm on the side and 2 120mm on the top one in front and one in back. I have a Hyper 212+ cooler, My room temp is 76 F and I have fans setup like this picture right now >


37C with an active heatsink is a touch high if you have low ambients. If you're in a 28C room, you're doing pretty well. But again, load temps are more important. I already gave my recommendation about case fans.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Good advice.


This always gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.


----------



## solsamurai

Move top fan to front intake, block off rear top fan slot, add two side intakes and add a second pull fan to your 212+ or replace it with a _real_ CPU cooler.


----------



## Struzzin

Prime95 temps are 60 and thanks guys I am going to do another fan on my 212 and do what you said.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Ah. Remember, you're talking to a bunch of positive flow folks here. All of our fans are intake. We don't use top fans for exhaust.


My top fan is an intake. I've read about your idea with positive pressure which I've adopted. I just wanted to block off the rear top vent so the front one is a more concentrated intake.


----------



## Bkpizza

Hi guys, great thread, read all 28 pages and its full of good advice. I love reading the way you work ehume (+others) , you guys show that all the little things added up end up making a big difference. I changed my 690II to follow your principles and am just wondering if there is anything else you would advise. I am waiting for my nibblers to come to take out the rear fan grill. Already I've got the same temps as I did before with everything set to be negative pressure, but only at around 1000rpm instead of 2000. Thanks a lot.


----------



## solsamurai

Looks good and glad to hear it worked out so well for you!







Only thing you can do now is beef up your CPU heatsink to something with more heatpipes. That's only if you're having trouble hitting the OC/temps you're after. Love that wall of intake fans up front.


----------



## Bkpizza

Thanks solsamurai, and yeah I am finding that it gets a bit hot, doing linpack at 3.8 even with it undervolted it hits 60C. Prime only hits 55C but still, I would like it to be lower. Any good coolers you recommend? I know the SA and the D14 are awesome, but I don't have a heap of dough, which is why I have the 212+ to start with.


----------



## dmasteR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bkpizza*
> 
> Thanks solsamurai, and yeah I am finding that it gets a bit hot, doing linpack at 3.8 even with it undervolted it hits 60C. Prime only hits 55C but still, I would like it to be lower. Any good coolers you recommend? I know the SA and the D14 are awesome, but I don't have a heap of dough, which is why I have the 212+ to start with.


NZXT Havik 140

No idea how much it is in Australia, but its priced between the D14/SA and the 212 here in the US.


----------



## Bkpizza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmasteR*
> 
> NZXT Havik 140
> No idea how much it is in Australia, but its priced between the D14/SA and the 212 here in the US.


I can get that for $85, the d14 for $85 as well, Coolermaster V8 for $60, Frio OCK for $80. Anything else, because I got my 212+ for $30 which what sold it for me.

EDIT: I can find out in the right section, dont really want to derail this thread I guess


----------



## solsamurai

You should head over to this thread and shoot tw33k a PM. He might sell his Silver Arrow SB-E and lives in Australia.







Otherwise save up and get the SA, SA SB-E or Phanteks PH-TC14PE.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Ah. Remember, you're talking to a bunch of positive flow folks here. All of our fans are intake. We don't use top fans for exhaust.
> 
> 
> 
> My top fan is an intake. I've read about your idea with positive pressure which I've adopted. I just wanted to block off the rear top vent so the front one is a more concentrated intake.
Click to expand...

Just one niggle: "positive pressure" is something I try to avoid. Most people who write about setting up fans in cases talk about pressure -- positive and negative. But I and others, especially here, think about how the air flows through your case, and maximizing that airflow while keeping the noise low. For that reason I like to use the term 'positive flow' rather than 'positive pressure.' And I think the difference in terms helps to keep the object in mind.

We go with the flow. And see below.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bkpizza*
> 
> Hi guys, great thread, read all 28 pages and its full of good advice. I love reading the way you work ehume (+others) , you guys show that all the little things added up end up making a big difference. I changed my 690II to follow your principles and am just wondering if there is anything else you would advise. I am waiting for my nibblers to come to take out the rear fan grill. Already I've got the same temps as I did before with everything set to be negative pressure, but only at around 1000rpm instead of 2000. Thanks a lot.


This is a beautiful rig. And the 690 II is just the right case. Here we Have a setup where the airflow is as good as you can get, pre-nibbler. Two HD intake fans, one 5.25 bay intake fan, at least one top intake fan (in the forward position) and nothing at the back. All intake. All beautiful blue LED intake fans. No exhaust fans, and the unused rear slot covers have been removed. Excellent.

Even the PSU is interesting. If the psu fan is at rest during low power operations, the heat generated by the psu components would rise out of the psu and get blown out the empty slots.

The key finding is that Bkpizza is getting the same temps he used to get, but with fanspeed that is half what it was before, with the benefit of being much quieter. When the nibbler comes you might be able to go with 800 rpm fans. It doesn't seem like much but the noise drops off fast.

Great looking rig. Be sure to post a night shot with the side panel on.

Oh yes. You can get nylon nuts at your auto supply store. Using nylon nuts and a finger guard you can keep prying fingers out of your rig:



(That's a pre-cleanup pic, but note the nylon nuts.)


----------



## Bkpizza

Thanks guys for the help. Your all a bunch of smart dudes who just showed me how to get the best from what I have. Rep+ and now hopefully I can help others to.

Edit, thanks solsamurai, I'll give him a try, and don't worry ehume, I'll get on those night shots for you.


----------



## solsamurai

It's always fun to see positive flow work out so well.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Just one niggle: "positive pressure" is something I try to avoid. Most people who write about setting up fans in cases talk about pressure -- positive and negative. But I and others, especially here, think about how the air flows through your case, and maximizing that airflow while keeping the noise low. For that reason I like to use the term 'positive flow' rather than 'positive pressure.' And I think the difference in terms helps to keep the object in mind.
> 
> We go with the flow. And see below.


I see what you mean by how the term changes the objective in mind. Starting over, my setup has positive flow.

My fan setup is almost exactly like what you recommend. Top, forward fan as intake, pci slot covers off, and no rear mesh. I can only put one front fan because of my case design. The only "rule" I break is continue using a rear mounted fan. I want to leave that fan in as I don't really hear it and I think it is doing it's job. I must be doing something right with my setup since I got one of the best temps, if not the best, for a 4.5Ghz OC in the Sandy Stable club. For air cooling, I put custom water cooling to shame while still staying very quiet.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Just one niggle: "positive pressure" is something I try to avoid. Most people who write about setting up fans in cases talk about pressure -- positive and negative. But I and others, especially here, think about how the air flows through your case, and maximizing that airflow while keeping the noise low. For that reason I like to use the term 'positive flow' rather than 'positive pressure.' And I think the difference in terms helps to keep the object in mind.
> 
> We go with the flow. And see below.
> 
> 
> 
> I see what you mean by how the term changes the objective in mind. Starting over, my setup has positive flow.
> 
> My fan setup is almost exactly like what you recommend. Top, forward fan as intake, pci slot covers off, and no rear mesh. I can only put one front fan because of my case design. The only "rule" I break is continue using a rear mounted fan. I want to leave that fan in as I don't really hear it and I think it is doing it's job. I must be doing something right with my setup since I got one of the best temps, if not the best, for a 4.5Ghz OC in the Sandy Stable club. For air cooling, I put custom water cooling to shame while still staying very quiet.
Click to expand...

I'd say you're doing a lot right.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I'd say you're doing a lot right.


+1


----------



## solsamurai

I'm looking for thoughts on using a SILVERSTONE AP141 for top front intake. The focused airflow vs the usual cone pattern has me curious about how that would work in a positive flow setup. Also looking at the Phanteks 140mm fans with their "Maelström concept technology".


----------



## Bkpizza

Is this for the top of the front? Or the front of the top?


----------



## solsamurai

Lol, sorry it's for the front position on the top panel. I'm looking into those fans as they are supposed to channel air more directly. I'm thinking this will be good for the top panel intake feeding fresh air to the front push fan on my Silver Arrow.


----------



## ehume

Very funny. Reasonable too, so even funnier. +rep


----------



## solsamurai

Lol, so back to my question about the AP and Phanteks fans. Any comments?


----------



## ehume

Hmm. I can think of reasons to go both ways. Why don't you spend the money, buy the fan, try it both ways and measure the temps, and tell us.

Easy for me to say: it's your money.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Hmm. I can think of reasons to go both ways. Why don't you spend the money, buy the fan, try it both ways and measure the temps, and tell us.
> 
> Easy for me to say: it's your money.


If I could get both I would.







I think I'll go with the new kid on the block and see how it turns out.







I can get it a little cheaper than the AP and it comes with more accessories to mess around with (thermal bar what?).


----------



## Bkpizza

Hahah glad that's sorted, um I'm the rookie, but I would've thought that you wouldn't need an AP since they are so close together, and the AP would tend to push past the CPU maybe? As for the Phanteks, I can't find where they say what their Maelstrom is meant to do. But they look like pretty good fans for heat sinks in the one review I read.

http://www.eteknix.com/reviews/cooling/phanteks-ph-f140ts-140mm-fan-review/7/


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bkpizza*
> 
> Hahah glad that's sorted, um I'm the rookie, but I would've thought that you wouldn't need an AP since they are so close together, and the AP would tend to push past the CPU maybe? As for the Phanteks, I can't find where they say what their Maelstrom is meant to do. But they look like pretty good fans for heat sinks in the one review I read.
> http://www.eteknix.com/reviews/cooling/phanteks-ph-f140ts-140mm-fan-review/7/


On their site Phanteks mention the kind of airflow the fans produce. It's similar to the AP's. The plan is to run it at 700 RPM so it won't blast the air past the SA and provide more air to the front push fan. Other fans with a cone like flow pattern blow more air around the sides of the SA. Even if there is no huge difference in the end I'll be happy to have something other than the stock 120mm up there.


----------



## Bkpizza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> On their site Phanteks mention the kind of airflow the fans produce. It's similar to the AP's. The plan is to run it at 700 RPM so it won't blast the air past the SA and provide more air to the front push fan. Other fans with a cone like flow pattern blow more air around the sides of the SA. Even if there is no huge difference in the end I'll be happy to have something other than the stock 120mm up there.


Oh yeah cool, sounds pretty good. They seem to be quiet for the air they produce as well which is nice.


----------



## solsamurai

I'll let you guys know how it turns out.


----------



## Bkpizza

Here are the night pics you wanted ehume. Hope they are ok. It was shot with 32 second exposure at 10 iso .


----------



## ehume

Nice night shots. Get a backlit keyboard and you're all set for quiet, dark nights so you can watch the Magellanic Clouds while you work in your near silence.

32 seconds. You have a tripod.


----------



## ohhgourami

And I highly recommend getting a quality mechanical keyboard like a Ducky Shine! Once you use a mechanical board, you never go back!


----------



## Bkpizza

Oh yeah do I have a tripod, I wish I could say my hands were that steady


----------



## chinesethunda

looks really good though


----------



## kevindd992002

Just raised my TY140 midcase fan and did not notice any change in temps from where it was before, 78-79C after one benchmark of Unigine Heaven.

So what now? Do I keep it raised or will I bring it back to its previous position? solsmurai and ehume?


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Just raised my TY140 midcase fan and did not notice any change in temps from where it was before, 78-79C after one benchmark of Unigine Heaven.
> So what now? Do I keep it raised or will I bring it back to its previous position? solsmurai and ehume?


You could experiment with fans that have a more focused airflow pattern like I'm doing.







The Phanteks 140mm I ordered is being delivered today. Like the Silverstone Air Penetrators it has a more centered airflow pattern than the typical cone pattern of other fans. The TY-140/150 have a cone pattern which in my case worked out well when I installed one on top of my HDD cage:



I can feel the air blowing upwards towards the SA front push fan. This new setup has dropped my CPU and GPU temps by 2c and 3c. I can now Fold and run Boinc GPU WUs without removing the front dust filter.







Temps where a little too high before. The Phanteks 140mm is for the top panel front intake. The Corsair 120mm stock just isn't helping much. I'm hoping the airflow pattern of the Phanteks will drop CPU temps another 1-3c at least.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Just raised my TY140 midcase fan and did not notice any change in temps from where it was before, 78-79C after one benchmark of Unigine Heaven.
> So what now? Do I keep it raised or will I bring it back to its previous position? solsmurai and ehume?
> 
> 
> 
> You could experiment with fans that have a more focused airflow pattern like I'm doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Phanteks 140mm I ordered is being delivered today. Like the Silverstone Air Penetrators it has a more centered airflow pattern than the typical cone pattern of other fans. The TY-140/150 have a cone pattern which in my case worked out well when I installed one on top of my HDD cage:
> 
> 
> 
> I can feel the air blowing upwards towards the SA front push fan. This new setup has dropped my CPU and GPU temps by 2c and 3c. I can now Fold and run Boinc GPU WUs without removing the front dust filter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Temps where a little too high before. The Phanteks 140mm is for the top panel front intake. The Corsair 120mm stock just isn't helping much. I'm hoping the airflow pattern of the Phanteks will drop CPU temps another 1-3c at least.
Click to expand...

Nice setup, might wanna swap my case for a 650D as well.








Keep us informed of the last fan's results (Phanteks 140mm).


----------



## solsamurai

I will. It should be at my door when I get home. If I have the time tonight I'll install it and see what happens!


----------



## arrow0309

Another upgrade (you guys made me wonder about really blocking the second top fan position) and I did it too. Used a black sheet of paper like you adviced:



But I also removed the D14 first push fan's shroud (an AP-29) 'cause I thought the top TY140 would work better feeding the D14's push fan. I might have been wrong, since the shroud was intended for a good reason.









http://cdn.overclock.net/a/ac/acfd5f8d_21987682062084156579.jpeg

But I don't like it anymore








However, the results are pretty much the same, only two cpu cores got 1°C more (at the same room temp, 22°C), but this is something I can even neglect because of the stress test session length (only 10') or may even be casual:

*Before: 60 56 57 55*



*After: 61 56 58 55*



I think they're both nice results for a 920 overclocked (I'm lowering to 3.8Ghz for the summertime).
I'll follow your further info's and tests about it (first top fan).









Feel free to comment.


----------



## ohhgourami

I would remove the silly grill at your rear fan position to have that bit extra air flow. No point having it.


----------



## chinesethunda

definitely remove that rear fan grill


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> You could experiment with fans that have a more focused airflow pattern like I'm doing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Phanteks 140mm I ordered is being delivered today. Like the Silverstone Air Penetrators it has a more centered airflow pattern than the typical cone pattern of other fans. The TY-140/150 have a cone pattern which in my case worked out well when I installed one on top of my HDD cage:
> 
> I can feel the air blowing upwards towards the SA front push fan. This new setup has dropped my CPU and GPU temps by 2c and 3c. I can now Fold and run Boinc GPU WUs without removing the front dust filter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Temps where a little too high before. The Phanteks 140mm is for the top panel front intake. The Corsair 120mm stock just isn't helping much. I'm hoping the airflow pattern of the Phanteks will drop CPU temps another 1-3c at least.


When you say cone pattern, does that mean there's dead air (no air practically) in the center of the fan? I think this is the most common pattern among fans, right?


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> I would remove the silly grill at your rear fan position to have that bit extra air flow. No point having it.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> definitely remove that rear fan grill


Ok, ok, I'll remove the fan grill (I was actually planning to take it off before summer).
Tomorrow morning I'll remove it, however I wouldn't expect a big improvement since I'm already getting nice temps for an I7 920, about 14-15° Delta T in idle.


----------



## darksen

I thought ehume said himself removing rear grill doesn't improve temps but only reduces sound?


----------



## ohhgourami

Still a quantifiable improvement! Completely justified to be done!


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> When you say cone pattern, does that mean there's dead air (no air practically) in the center of the fan? I think this is the most common pattern among fans, right?


The cone pattern is very common. You can image the air blowing outward from the sides like a big "V" pattern. As far as I know only Phanteks and Silverstone make fans designed to produce a more focused flow. I installed the Phanteks last night up top and so far very happy with the outcome. It's a little too loud for me at 1200 RPM. I used the included 5v adapter to drop it to 750 RPM and now its quiet and still moves air! I can definitely feel more air closer to the center of the fan than what the TY-140/150's produce. So for my intended use (top intake for SA) it's perfect. CPU temps dropped ~2c and it feels like the air blowing out the rear has increased a bit. Overall case airflow noise seems to have gone up a little more but nothing that bothers me. Again this is the sound of the air blowing through the case not fan vibration or bearing related. I'll post some pics soon. If I come across the extra cash I may even try a couple more Phanteks on the SA and see what happens.















Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darksen*
> 
> I thought ehume said himself removing rear grill doesn't improve temps but only reduces sound?


It was a sound issue in my case with both the K62 and 650D. Properly configuring my airflow is what made the biggest difference in temps.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> The cone pattern is very common. You can image the air blowing outward from the sides like a big "V" pattern. As far as I know only Phanteks and Silverstone make fans designed to produce a more focused flow. I installed the Phanteks last night up top and so far very happy with the outcome. It's a little too loud for me at 1200 RPM. I used the included 5v adapter to drop it to 750 RPM and now its quiet and still moves air! I can definitely feel more air closer to the center of the fan than what the TY-140/150's produce. So for my intended use (top intake for SA) it's perfect. CPU temps dropped ~2c and it feels like the air blowing out the rear has increased a bit. Overall case airflow noise seems to have gone up a little more but nothing that bothers me. Again this is the sound of the air blowing through the case not fan vibration or bearing related. I'll post some pics soon. If I come across the extra cash I may even try a couple more Phanteks on the SA and see what happens.


Would you say it's quieter than the TY-140 at the same speed?


----------



## Bkpizza

Love how your case is looking solsamurai, real clean. Glad your Phanteks worked well for you.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Would you say it's quieter than the TY-140 at the same speed?


I never though about comparing them so I can't say.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bkpizza*
> 
> Love how your case is looking solsamurai, real clean. Glad your Phanteks worked well for you.


Thanks dood.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Another upgrade (you guys made me wonder about really blocking the second top fan position) and I did it too. Used a black sheet of paper like you adviced:
> 
> 
> 
> But I also removed the D14 first push fan's shroud (an AP-29) 'cause I thought the top TY140 would work better feeding the D14's push fan. I might have been wrong, since the shroud was intended for a good reason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://cdn.overclock.net/a/ac/acfd5f8d_21987682062084156579.jpeg
> 
> But I don't like it anymore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, the results are pretty much the same, only two cpu cores got 1°C more (at the same room temp, 22°C), but this is something I can even neglect because of the stress test session length (only 10') or may even be casual:
> 
> *Before: 60 56 57 55*
> 
> 
> 
> *After: 61 56 58 55*
> 
> 
> 
> I think they're both nice results for a 920 overclocked (I'm lowering to 3.8Ghz for the summertime).
> I'll follow your further info's and tests about it (first top fan).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Feel free to comment.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> I would remove the silly grill at your rear fan position to have that bit extra air flow. No point having it.


He did remove the grill. You can see where he cut it away. Now he has a finger guard:



And I find that removing the grill frees the airflow enough that you can do without a rear exhaust fan. Depending on how much air you have coming in, a rear fan might actually slow down the exhaust. But in general, you won't know if you get lower temps until you test your rig. All I can promise is that with no grill and no fan, it will be quieter.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> He did remove the grill. You can see where he cut it away. Now he has a finger guard:


HEH I was calling the finger guard a grill.







I still don't see much of a point in the finger guard...


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> HEH I was calling the finger guard a grill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I still don't see much of a point in the finger guard...


Looks and/or safety? I would have one on mine to keep my sons hands away if my system was on the floor.


----------



## a pet rock

They can also be helpful if there are stray wires that may get caught in the fans. That's very important in my current case.


----------



## arrow0309

I have none of the above issues not to removing the finger guard. It was only a matter of look.








I'm gonna remove it but I repeat, there's not gonna make any difference.









Right now I'm fine, I tested my cpu and it seems it works even better (with some games and one videocard) at 3.8Ghz than at 4.2Ghz but with a serious drop in power consumption, Tdp and temperature (and of course lower fans rpm).

@ehume
Thanks for your explanation. It seems you have to repeat it again and again, there's always someone gettin' it wrong.

@solsamurai
Nice fan you've got, the Phanteks one.








This one might do the difference, I'll keep it in mind. And I also like the thermal bracket (included) for the gpu cooling when needed (I may return to the cf setup).


----------



## solsamurai

The thermal bracket is a good idea but in practice it failed for my setup. Due to the large heatsink on m GPU that extends beyond the PCB any fan mounted on the bracket would not install without pressing up against it. If I had a reference card it could work but would be a tight fit. If Phanteks would make the bracket just a little taller when installed in the PCI slots it would be perfect. I'll try to post some pics of what I'm talking about soon.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> He did remove the grill. You can see where he cut it away. Now he has a finger guard:
> 
> 
> 
> HEH I was calling the finger guard a grill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I still don't see much of a point in the finger guard...
Click to expand...

At least it doesn't impede airflow.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> HEH I was calling the finger guard a grill.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I still don't see much of a point in the finger guard...
> 
> 
> 
> Looks and/or safety? I would have one on mine to keep my sons hands away if my system was on the floor.
Click to expand...

That is the reason they were invented.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> They can also be helpful if there are stray wires that may get caught in the fans. That's very important in my current case.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> The thermal bracket is a good idea but in practice it failed for my setup. Due to the large heatsink on m GPU that extends beyond the PCB any fan mounted on the bracket would not install without pressing up against it. If I had a reference card it could work but would be a tight fit. If Phanteks would make the bracket just a little taller when installed in the PCI slots it would be perfect. I'll try to post some pics of what I'm talking about soon.


It's great that you have a gpu that uses that otherwise wasted space. My next gpu purchase will be one of those.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> It's great that you have a gpu that uses that otherwise wasted space. My next gpu purchase will be one of those.


You're into the cyclone (AMD/NVIDIA) too?







It's a great card for my needs. Still haven't seen the need to go beyond the factory OC.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> It's great that you have a gpu that uses that otherwise wasted space. My next gpu purchase will be one of those.
> 
> 
> 
> You're into the cyclone (AMD/NVIDIA) too?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's a great card for my needs. Still haven't seen the need to go beyond the factory OC.
Click to expand...

Actually, no. I intend to get one of these, or something similar. It, too, is taller than the normal graphics card. The only thing wrong is that it got way hot until a reviewer turned on his side fan, then it cooled down. I figure I'll put one of my AP-11's on it.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Actually, no. I intend to get one of these, or something similar. It, too, is taller than the normal graphics card. The only thing wrong is that it got way hot until a reviewer turned on his side fan, then it cooled down. I figure I'll put one of my AP-11's on it.


I was looking at passive cards at one point before I found the GPU I have in my sig. I can't hear the fan at 50% over the rest of my fans and it performs very well with it's stock OC.







The TY-150 I mounted on the HDD cage keeps temps under 60c which prevents the fan from spinning up to 60-70%. Your systems would be the same as your airflow is always so expertly configured.


----------



## a pet rock

I wouldn't bother with any gimmicks like that passive 6850. If you want quiet cooling, just go out and buy yourself an aftermarket cooler. The Twin Turbo Pro I had was quieter than the stock Lian-Li fans at 1100 rpm even when at 100% fan speed. That and the crossfire load temps on the hot card were only 55C when I started using this positive flow setup.


----------



## ehume

Too much work. And I might mess it up. I draw the line at hacking gpu cards.


----------



## ginja-ninja

I currently have (well in the process of being shipped here) an NZXT 410 Phantom case. After reading the guide and such I read it as tho it'd be best to have all my fans intake except my rear exhaust fan? The case has the following fan options available.

Front - x2 120mm or x1 140mm
Rear - x1 120mm
Side - x1 120mm or x1 140mm
Top - x2 120mm or x2 140mm

What I'm looking for is what would be the best fan setup for my case and with what fans? I currently also have a 212+ CPU cooler. Noise isn't a problem for me, I want airflow not noise control, also I usually have headphones on anyways. Thanks for the help


----------



## ehume

I just did a review of that case which will be on Overclockers, hopefully soon.

The case has a lot of potential, but a few great problems. The HD holder, for example, blocks the inflow from your front fans. If you leave it off you will get the air input and still have room for 2 HD's. But you won't get that pivot that can act as a mid-case fan. Worse, the front intake grills are just that -- two grills. Constrictive grills. No chance for filters. That and if you want to go with add-on filters, taking off the front face requires taking out your DVD.

If you use your HD cage you will need your top and bottom fans to be intakes. Your side panel too.

If I was going to use that case, I'd have to mod it.


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Too much work. And I might mess it up. I draw the line at hacking gpu cards.










You mod cases but won't replace a stock cooler? With my 6850 it was literally four screws and some VRAM/VRM heatsinks with pre-applied glue. I'd say it's worth it.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Too much work. And I might mess it up. I draw the line at hacking gpu cards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mod cases but won't replace a stock cooler? With my 6850 it was literally four screws and some VRAM/VRM heatsinks with pre-applied glue. I'd say it's worth it.
Click to expand...

Hmm. You make it sound worth doing. I found myself drawn to this.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Too much work. And I might mess it up. I draw the line at hacking gpu cards.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You mod cases but won't replace a stock cooler? With my 6850 it was literally four screws and some VRAM/VRM heatsinks with pre-applied glue. I'd say it's worth it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hmm. You make it sound worth doing. I found myself drawn to this.
Click to expand...

I just love this cooler, and I've recommended it to a good friend of mine.











It looks cool and sexy and you can purchase the cooler only since the turbo module is sold separately and is just a regular AC 120mm fan:


----------



## ehume

How many Watts can it dissipate?


----------



## nimitz87

I've read quite a bit of this thread great info!

apparently I picked pretty well as I chose a HAF 922 before reading this. although that fractual case looks pretty sweet as well.

my setup will be

i5 2500k + 212+
MSI z77 GD65
gskills 8gb 1600
xfx 6870
ocz 700 modular
2x segate barracuda 1tb

at some point an SSD, not sure where I'm going to mount it yet.

I'm sure the stock fan setup will be fine I plan on shooting for a 4.0ghz OC first and then possibly push it to 4.5 but there is always room for improvement which is why I'm here.

how can I maximize the stock setup? the top 200mm stock fan is exhaust right? I want that as a intake according to this correct? would 2 120's be better? as it seems the single 200 will be positioned right above the 212+...I planned on adding another 200mm as a side intake.

what about another front fan in the 5.25" bay's?

thanks for the help

Chad


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> How many Watts can it dissipate?


Well, some shops report up to 130 watts with the turbo module fan (1000rpm). What gpu are you going to dissipate?


----------



## ginja-ninja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I just did a review of that case which will be on Overclockers, hopefully soon.
> 
> The case has a lot of potential, but a few great problems. The HD holder, for example, blocks the inflow from your front fans. If you leave it off you will get the air input and still have room for 2 HD's. But you won't get that pivot that can act as a mid-case fan. Worse, the front intake grills are just that -- two grills. Constrictive grills. No chance for filters. That and if you want to go with add-on filters, taking off the front face requires taking out your DVD.
> 
> If you use your HD cage you will need your top and bottom fans to be intakes. Your side panel too.
> 
> If I was going to use that case, I'd have to mod it.


Well I will only be having a 2TB HDD and a 120GB SSD, I plan on taking that middle rack out to improve airflow. So if I do not use my HD cage I would make my front, side, and top intake and my rear exhaust? What fans do you suggest for a good intake and exhaust option? I don't care about noise, I want awesome airflow


----------



## Bonkers

Read the first post, not going to sift through the hundreds of pages to see if I can find an answer. So i will just ask here.

Im curious if I have an idiotic thought about airflow in my case. Im also thinking of the tunnel affect that you mentioned and here is where I am at.










My question is, if I make a plate to cover where the grey drawing is (excuse my amazing paint skills







) to create a "tunnel" do you think that will improve my air flow and actually give a nice working model? I have a 140mm Aerocool shark pulling from the front, a 120 mm nzxt stock fan pulling from the side, a 120mm aerocool shark pulling from a bottom, 2 200 mm nzxt fans up top as exhaust and another 120 as exhaust in the rear.

I can also add another 120 for a configuration like this.










Just looking for advice on how to get my temps down a little bit. They arent high but Id like them a little lower.

Also curious about covering the 1st intake and removing the rear fan. Would that help me with the way I have everything set up?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> How many Watts can it dissipate?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, some shops report up to 130 watts with the turbo module fan (1000rpm). What gpu are you going to dissipate?
Click to expand...

Dunno yet. I'll be putting a 500 rpm fan on it if I go that route.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ginja-ninja*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I just did a review of that case which will be on Overclockers, hopefully soon.
> 
> The case has a lot of potential, but a few great problems. The HD holder, for example, blocks the inflow from your front fans. If you leave it off you will get the air input and still have room for 2 HD's. But you won't get that pivot that can act as a mid-case fan. Worse, the front intake grills are just that -- two grills. Constrictive grills. No chance for filters. That and if you want to go with add-on filters, taking off the front face requires taking out your DVD.
> 
> If you use your HD cage you will need your top and bottom fans to be intakes. Your side panel too.
> 
> If I was going to use that case, I'd have to mod it.
> 
> 
> 
> Well I will only be having a 2TB HDD and a 120GB SSD, I plan on taking that middle rack out to improve airflow. So if I do not use my HD cage I would make my front, side, and top intake and my rear exhaust? What fans do you suggest for a good intake and exhaust option? I don't care about noise, I want awesome airflow
Click to expand...

Good exhaust option: buy a nibbler and remove the rear grill. No fan.

Intake: wait for the case to come, decide if you want 1x120mm, 2x120mm or 140mm.

Bottom intake: I need to measure to see if a 140mm/120mm fan would fit (140mm fan with 120mm screw holes).

Top intake: pick a 140mm fan. A TY-140 will do, but so will a KM2 PWM. Hook them and the cpu heatsink fans to a PWM splitter, so your ventilation will adjust to the cpu's need.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bonkers*
> 
> Read the first post, not going to sift through the hundreds of pages to see if I can find an answer. So i will just ask here.
> 
> Im curious if I have an idiotic thought about airflow in my case. Im also thinking of the tunnel affect that you mentioned and here is where I am at.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My question is, if I make a plate to cover where the grey drawing is (excuse my amazing paint skills
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) to create a "tunnel" do you think that will improve my air flow and actually give a nice working model? I have a 140mm Aerocool shark pulling from the front, a 120 mm nzxt stock fan pulling from the side, a 120mm aerocool shark pulling from a bottom, 2 200 mm nzxt fans up top as exhaust and another 120 as exhaust in the rear.
> 
> I can also add another 120 for a configuration like this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just looking for advice on how to get my temps down a little bit. They arent high but Id like them a little lower.
> 
> Also curious about covering the 1st intake and removing the rear fan. Would that help me with the way I have everything set up?


Wind tunnel would be a fan in the top 3 slots of your 5.25 bay running straight to the cpu heatsink. Or the forward top intake fan running a wind tunnel back through your cpu heatsink.

That grey box is not what we have in mind when we talk of wind tunnel effect.


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Hmm. You make it sound worth doing. I found myself drawn to this.


Personally, if you're just going to slap a fan on it anyways, I would get the Twin Turbo 2. But, that's just me. The fans on the S1 are so spread out for all that passiveness, you could get more surface area out of a heatsink designed for fans.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Hmm. You make it sound worth doing. I found myself drawn to this.
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, if you're just going to slap a fan on it anyways, I would get the Twin Turbo 2. But, that's just me. The fans on the S1 are so spread out for all that passiveness, you could get more surface area out of a heatsink designed for fans.
Click to expand...

Good point. Something to think about. I like the idea of a larger fin array so you can use a 120mm fan with low low low rpm's. Almost silent.


----------



## ginja-ninja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Dunno yet. I'll be putting a 500 rpm fan on it if I go that route.
> 
> Good exhaust option: buy a nibbler and remove the rear grill. No fan.
> Intake: wait for the case to come, decide if you want 1x120mm, 2x120mm or 140mm.
> Bottom intake: I need to measure to see if a 140mm/120mm fan would fit (140mm fan with 120mm screw holes).
> Top intake: pick a 140mm fan. A TY-140 will do, but so will a KM2 PWM. Hook them and the cpu heatsink fans to a PWM splitter, so your ventilation will adjust to the cpu's need.


For a the front intake on the 410 Phantom it says only a single 140mm or 2 120mm will fit, and the top can have either 2 120mm or 2 140mm. As far as what size and how many do you suggest. I was thinking 2 120mm in front and 2 140mm on top with the option of a side intake fan?


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> Personally, if you're just going to slap a fan on it anyways, I would get the Twin Turbo 2. But, that's just me. The fans on the S1 are so spread out for all that passiveness, you could get more surface area out of a heatsink designed for fans.
> 
> 
> 
> Good point. Something to think about. I like the idea of a larger fin array so you can use a 120mm fan with low low low rpm's. Almost silent.
Click to expand...

A good 120mm @500rpm fan isn't _almost silent_; it's *dead silent*


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> Personally, if you're just going to slap a fan on it anyways, I would get the Twin Turbo 2. But, that's just me. The fans on the S1 are so spread out for all that passiveness, you could get more surface area out of a heatsink designed for fans.
> 
> 
> 
> Good point. Something to think about. I like the idea of a larger fin array so you can use a 120mm fan with low low low rpm's. Almost silent.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A good 120mm @500rpm fan isn't _almost silent_; it's *dead silent*
Click to expand...

Put your ear up to it, you can hear it. I can hear 300 rpm fans. No fan that moves fast enough to push air will be dead silent. Heck, even zombies aren't silent.


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ginja-ninja*
> 
> For a the front intake on the 410 Phantom it says only a single 140mm or 2 120mm will fit, and the top can have either 2 120mm or 2 140mm. As far as what size and how many do you suggest. I was thinking 2 120mm in front and 2 140mm on top with the option of a side intake fan?


For the top fans, I would think one in the front slot and the back slot blocked off would be best if you have a good fan on your heatsink. You might still try both fans up top to see if it works best.

As for the front fan, it depends on how much GPU cooling you need and how many 3.5" and 5.25" drives you have. I would suggest a fan in your 5.25" drive bay that you can mount with styrofoam and wedge it in there or use velcro strips. A 140mm takes up four slots, but you might get it to fit if you're lucky. A 120 will fit in 3 slots, so if you don't have any drives it can work.

As for the bottom of the front, if you only have one or two drives keep them in the bottom drive bay. That way you can put a single 140 in the upper spot and it should be unobstructed all the way to your GPUs. The key point of 140mm fans is that they can run at a lower RPM and still push the same amount of air as smaller fans. The drawback to that is that they lose some static pressure because of the slower speed, so comparative cfm doesn't necessarily mean better temps with rads or obstructions like drive bays.


----------



## nimitz87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *admin*
> 
> This is the start to much more to come. We will have a design and many mods to the forum coming shortly. In the meantime, become a member, start posting and have fun


Assembled everything yesterday @ idle CPU is 28c ambient were 24-25c so not bad so far.

I plan on moving the rear exhaust to the front drive bays should I block the rear grille?

What about side intake? I have room for 2 120s or one large 200 .

This is what I'm working with I know I need to work on cable management today.

Chad


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nimitz87*
> 
> Assembled everything yesterday @ idle CPU is 28c ambient were 24-25c so not bad so far.
> I plan on moving the rear exhaust to the front drive bays should I block the rear grille?
> What about side intake? I have room for 2 120s or one large 200 .
> This is what I'm working with I know I need to work on cable management today.
> Chad


We need more information to help you out.







What case and components do you have? How many fans? Got any pics you can post? Also you can use the links in my sig to update yours with your system info. It will help other on OCN answer you questions/









Here's a couple shots of the Phanteks itself and running in my case.










Spoiler: Phanteks Shots


----------



## Hackcremo

Hello guys...
i will be upgrading my case from cm elite 430 to corsair 400r/500r (still can't decide)..
i wanna ask..what is the best recommended FAN position for my new case 400/500r...
i need enough air flow because gonna put 2 gtx 460 inside and 4.8ghz 2700K with hyper 212+..


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hackcremo*
> 
> Hello guys...
> i will be upgrading my case from cm elite 430 to corsair 400r/500r (still can't decide)..
> i wanna ask..what is the best recommended FAN position for my new case 400/500r...
> i need enough air flow because gonna put 2 gtx 460 inside and 4.8ghz 2700K with hyper 212+..


I'd say the 500R. You can use a number of fan configs on the side panel, two top fans, two front intake, fan mounts on the rear of both HDD cages, etc. You have the most options with this case.









For fan config here's what I would do:

Two front intake
One top intake in the front position with rear position blocked off
Remove rear fan, cut out rear mesh and use that fan on the back of the top HDD cage
If you only have a couple HDD keep them in the bottom so more air can flow through the top cage
Side 200mm should be fine

You should see how two top intakes effects temps as well. That Hyper 212+ can only do so much. A couple intake 120's or 140's on the side may be better for GPU temps. The stock 200mm may be just fine though.


----------



## Hackcremo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> I'd say the 500R. You can use a number of fan configs on the side panel, two top fans, two front intake, fan mounts on the rear of both HDD cages, etc. You have the most options with this case.


so in that case..
will be 2 front intake,
1x 200mm side intake
2x 140mm top intake
1x 140mm rear exhaust is alright..??
or this set up put too much air inside...


----------



## solsamurai

Sounds good to me. If you have a way to remove the rear mesh that would be even better. Don't forget you can mount fans on the other side of the HDD cages like so...


----------



## ginja-ninja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> For the top fans, I would think one in the front slot and the back slot blocked off would be best if you have a good fan on your heatsink. You might still try both fans up top to see if it works best.
> As for the front fan, it depends on how much GPU cooling you need and how many 3.5" and 5.25" drives you have. I would suggest a fan in your 5.25" drive bay that you can mount with styrofoam and wedge it in there or use velcro strips. A 140mm takes up four slots, but you might get it to fit if you're lucky. A 120 will fit in 3 slots, so if you don't have any drives it can work.
> As for the bottom of the front, if you only have one or two drives keep them in the bottom drive bay. That way you can put a single 140 in the upper spot and it should be unobstructed all the way to your GPUs. The key point of 140mm fans is that they can run at a lower RPM and still push the same amount of air as smaller fans. The drawback to that is that they lose some static pressure because of the slower speed, so comparative cfm doesn't necessarily mean better temps with rads or obstructions like drive bays.


Well I will only have a 2tb HDD and a 120gb SSD in the bottom racks and i planon taking the middle rack out, the part in red, to provide more airflow. I will prolly go with 2 120mm in the front that push a lot of hair and 2 140mm on top top hooked to CPU mobo fan connection using a PWM splitter


or leave the middle cage in and put a 120mm on it which it has an option to do so, you can even angle it


----------



## Hackcremo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Sounds good to me. If you have a way to remove the rear mesh that would be even better. Don't forget you can mount fans on the other side of the HDD cages like so...


is that OK when there are so many intake fans while only 1 way hot air gonna be taken out that will be on the rear fans..will the hot air getting trapped inside as too much intake and only 1 exhaust available..??


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hackcremo*
> 
> is that OK when there are so many intake fans while only 1 way hot air gonna be taken out that will be on the rear fans..will the hot air getting trapped inside as too much intake and only 1 exhaust available..??


When going for positive pressure/positive flow you want more intake than exhaust. Air is pushed out from every opening vs being sucked in when you have too much exhaust. The result is less dust and in my experience a cooler, quieter case.

Removing the rear mesh will greatly increase the amount of air that can escape. So much so that you may not even need the rear fan! Several of us in this thread run our systems that way.







The fan has to work hard when pushing through mesh. Also keep in mind air will be pushed out the rear vented slot covers as well. What GPUs are you going to use and how do they exhaust?


----------



## Hackcremo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> When going for positive pressure/positive flow you want more intake than exhaust. Air is pushed out from every opening vs being sucked in when you have too much exhaust. The result is less dust and in my experience a cooler, quieter case.
> Removing the rear mesh will greatly increase the amount of air that can escape. So much so that you may not even need the rear fan! Several of us in this thread run our systems that way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fan has to work hard when pushing through mesh. Also keep in mind air will be pushed out the rear vented slot covers as well. What GPUs are you going to use and how do they exhaust?


So the exhaust would be on the rear fan position and the gpu it self right..??
the only think that problem right know is one of my gtx 460 is the msi cyclone version which it cooler dissipated heat inside the case not like my other gtx 460 which the reference design that exhaust hot air out..

i think on put the reference gtx 460 on top and msi on below..
then all the heat come from the msi card will be suck out by the reference gtx 460..
will this method helpful in managing hot air out..??
this how my gtx 460 look..


----------



## nimitz87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *nimitz87*
> 
> Assembled everything yesterday @ idle CPU is 28c ambient were 24-25c so not bad so far.
> I plan on moving the rear exhaust to the front drive bays should I block the rear grille?
> What about side intake? I have room for 2 120s or one large 200 .
> This is what I'm working with I know I need to work on cable management today.
> Chad
> 
> 
> 
> We need more information to help you out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What case and components do you have? How many fans? Got any pics you can post? Also you can use the links in my sig to update yours with your system info. It will help other on OCN answer you questions/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a couple shots of the Phanteks itself and running in my case.
Click to expand...

Not sure what happened but I quoted my previous post detailing everything...

my setup

Haf 922
i5 2500k + 212+
MSI z77 GD65
Xfx 6870 dual fan
gskills 8gb 1600
xfx 6870
ocz 700 modular
segate barracuda 1tb

at some point an SSD, not sure where I'm going to mount it yet.

I have the top and front fans as intakes and the stock rear exhaust.

Looking to add either 2 120's for side intake or a single 200mm not sure what would be better?

Same goes for the top....1 200 or 2 120's?

What about switching to 120's but blocking off the rear like the OP talked about ?
bottom fan?

Also interested in moving the rear exhaust fan to in front of the drive bays and covering the rear grille

And adding a second fan to the 212+ as a push/pull setup.

At idle it's about 30 deg its not oc'd yet...

Also the 212+ runs @ 100%.

Here is a pic









Thanks for the help

Chad


----------



## ehume

Mount an SSD anywhere with a pad of 2-sided Velcro. Works great and you have total flexibility of mount location. You can even mount it sideways on the back of your mb tray.


----------



## doyll

Have read and re-read this a few times now. Love your positive approach.









I have a Fractal Design Define R2 w/ 2x 120mm Akasa AK-FN053 frt intake, 1x TY-140 bottom intake & 1x 120mm Akasa AK-FN053 back exhaust. 2x TY-140 fans mated to Noctua NH-U12P with custom shrouds and ducted out top. GPU is HD 6570 so no heat issue there. All fans are controlled by motherboard CPU PWM socket using splitter with 12v power from PSU. Case is almost silent in normal use and only hear it at 50% CPU use.

For many years I have built ducts to isolate cool intake from hot exhaust with good results on CPU & GPU... usually using card stock or hanging folder material. Have you ever tried it?


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ginja-ninja*
> 
> Well I will only have a 2tb HDD and a 120gb SSD in the bottom racks and i planon taking the middle rack out, the part in red, to provide more airflow. I will prolly go with 2 120mm in the front that push a lot of air and 2 140mm on top top hooked to CPU mobo fan connection using a PWM splitter
> or leave the middle cage in and put a 120mm on it which it has an option to do so, you can even angle it


I would try comparing temps between one top intake with a slot blocked and two top intakes. You may find you get better temps because there's no interference with your heatsink fans. And I would definitely look into getting a fan into your 5.25" drive bays if you can. That solved all of my GPU heat issues when I had two massive case-exhausting heatsinks on crossfire 6850s.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hackcremo*
> 
> is that OK when there are so many intake fans while only 1 way hot air gonna be taken out that will be on the rear fans..will the hot air getting trapped inside as too much intake and only 1 exhaust available..??


Keep in mind that a lot of us in this club don't have any exhaust fans at all. When ehume was testing this strategy he found no temp differences between that having the rear exhaust fan and not, so he got rid of it. If the fan isn't reducing temps, the only thing it's doing is making noise.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hackcremo*
> 
> So the exhaust would be on the rear fan position and the gpu it self right..??
> the only think that problem right know is one of my gtx 460 is the msi cyclone version which it cooler dissipated heat inside the case not like my other gtx 460 which the reference design that exhaust hot air out..
> i think on put the reference gtx 460 on top and msi on below..
> then all the heat come from the msi card will be suck out by the reference gtx 460..
> will this method helpful in managing hot air out..??
> this how my gtx 460 look..
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


I would keep the cyclone on the top and remove the PCI slot covers on the back of the case. You don't want that card dumping all its hot air into the other cards intake. Keeping the back as open as possible will allow more air to be push out instead of rising up. I have a cyclone R6850 and have removed all my slot covers and installed a mid case fan. Temps are nice and low even when I get real hot in my apartment.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nimitz87*
> 
> Not sure what happened but I quoted my previous post detailing everything...
> my setup
> Haf 922
> i5 2500k + 212+
> MSI z77 GD65
> Xfx 6870 dual fan
> gskills 8gb 1600
> xfx 6870
> ocz 700 modular
> segate barracuda 1tb
> at some point an SSD, not sure where I'm going to mount it yet.
> I have the top and front fans as intakes and the stock rear exhaust.
> Looking to add either 2 120's for side intake or a single 200mm not sure what would be better?
> Same goes for the top....1 200 or 2 120's?
> What about switching to 120's but blocking off the rear like the OP talked about ?
> bottom fan?
> Also interested in moving the rear exhaust fan to in front of the drive bays and covering the rear grille
> And adding a second fan to the 212+ as a push/pull setup.
> At idle it's about 30 deg its not oc'd yet...
> Also the 212+ runs @ 100%.
> Here is a pic
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the help
> Chad


Two 120's on the side would give you a more concentrated flow to your GPU's than 200mm. Same with top intakes. I've found in my case a single top front 140 works better with my heatsink than a 200. Definitely try single top intake vs two and compare the results. A low RPM bottom fan wouldn't hurt. Moving the rear exhaust to the back of the HDD cage is fine but don't block the rear grill. Leave it open for air to blow out.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> If the fan isn't reducing temps, the only thing it's doing is making noise.


+1


----------



## ginja-ninja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> I would try comparing temps between one top intake with a slot blocked and two top intakes. You may find you get better temps because there's no interference with your heatsink fans. And I would definitely look into getting a fan into your 5.25" drive bays if you can. That solved all of my GPU heat issues when I had two massive case-exhausting heatsinks on crossfire 6850s.


What exactly do you mean by block off, just do not install a fan in that slot above my cpu cooler?


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ginja-ninja*
> 
> What exactly do you mean by block off, just do not install a fan in that slot above my cpu cooler?


Cover it up with foam, thick card stock paper, etc. The idea is to control where and how the air flows through your case. Here's a pic of my last case with some card stock paper covering the rear top fan slot.


----------



## nimitz87

alright I'm going to install 2 120 side intakes, move the rear exhaust to the drive bays, and for now leave the 200 top....I may expierement and swap two 120's to the top and try it with the rear blocked off as well.


----------



## ginja-ninja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Cover it up with foam, thick card stock paper, etc. The idea is to control where and how the air flows through your case. Here's a pic of my last case with some card stock paper covering the rear top fan slot.


OHHHH! You actually mean block it off














Thanks for the help!


----------



## ehume

Yup. He means literally block it off:


----------



## chinesethunda

it really does help


----------



## Phishy

Why do is it suggested to block off the top back (most rear top slot) and only mount a fan in the top front of the case? Wouldn't do intakes serve better cooling to the CPU's HS? 

Hmm what were the results of 2 top intakes versus one blocked off? I understand now that you want to control the direction of the airflow through the case but if you just mounted a low / moderate CFM fan wouldn't it not interfere with the HS airflow.


----------



## ohhgourami

I still think it would interfere with the airflow. It would probably slow it down making it less effective. Of course you could always give it a try and see what happens. DO IT FOR SCIENCE!


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy*
> 
> Why do is it suggested to block off the top back (most rear top slot) and only mount a fan in the top front of the case?


reduce recirculation of HOT exhaust back into the case... people keep forgetting that INTAKE air is supposed to be cool. which means it's not supposed to mix with HOT exhaust air from the CPU, GPU, PSU. etc...


----------



## kevindd992002

What are the best and most silent 120mm fans that can move a lot of air?


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> What are the best and most silent 120mm fans that can move a lot of air?


Scythe Slipstream 800rpm


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy*
> 
> Why do is it suggested to block off the top back (most rear top slot) and only mount a fan in the top front of the case? Wouldn't do intakes serve better cooling to the CPU's HS?
> 
> Hmm what were the results of 2 top intakes versus one blocked off? I understand now that you want to control the direction of the airflow through the case but if you just mounted a low / moderate CFM fan wouldn't it not interfere with the HS airflow.


This is where a low ceiling case can produce a wind tunnel effect. You're pushing air from the front of the case to the back with the cpu heatsink standing in the way, where it benefits from the breeze. Putting a fan in the rearward top position can actually interfere with front-to-back airflow.

This approach is not helpful with a high ceiling case. With a significant space between your heatsink and the top of the case you can't really get that straight-through airflow that a wind tunnel requires. Instead, you have a system that acts like a bagpipe. In such systems, if you have both positions filled with intake fans you will get superior results.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> What are the best and most silent 120mm fans that can move a lot of air?
> 
> 
> 
> Scythe Slipstream 800rpm
Click to expand...

I agree. I started with a prejudice against Slip Streams. But the more I used them the more impressed I was. Now I am a fan of Slip Streams.

I only want to see two changes: an FDB bearing in place of the sleeve bearing they now have, and a change in name to 'Slipstream.'


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> This is where a low ceiling case can produce a wind tunnel effect. You're pushing air from the front of the case to the back with the cpu heatsink standing in the way, where it benefits from the breeze. Putting a fan in the rearward top position can actually interfere with front-to-back airflow.
> 
> This approach is not helpful with a high ceiling case. With a significant space between your heatsink and the top of the case you can't really get that straight-through airflow that a wind tunnel requires. Instead, you have a system that acts like a bagpipe. In such systems, if you have both positions filled with intake fans you will get superior results.


What would you consider a high ceiling case? How much distance would you say between the heatsink to the top fan?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> This is where a low ceiling case can produce a wind tunnel effect. You're pushing air from the front of the case to the back with the cpu heatsink standing in the way, where it benefits from the breeze. Putting a fan in the rearward top position can actually interfere with front-to-back airflow.
> 
> This approach is not helpful with a high ceiling case. With a significant space between your heatsink and the top of the case you can't really get that straight-through airflow that a wind tunnel requires. Instead, you have a system that acts like a bagpipe. In such systems, if you have both positions filled with intake fans you will get superior results.
> 
> I agree. I started with a prejudice against Slip Streams. But the more I used them the more impressed I was. Now I am a fan of Slip Streams.
> 
> I only want to see two changes: an FDB bearing in place of the sleeve bearing they now have, and a change in name to 'Slipstream.'


Are these Slipstreams hard to obtain nowadays? So 800RPM is the most recommended?


----------



## ginja-ninja

Has anyone ever had any experience with the Scythe Ultra Kaze? they're rated at 3000 rpm, 45.90dBA, 133.60CFM. I was considering 2 of these for intake fans in the front., and either upgrading the 140mm top intake or leaving as is. The rear top fan slot will be blocked off.


----------



## kevindd992002

I don't think the Scythe Slip Stream 800RPM 120mm fans are available in the Philippines. Are there any best alternatives for silent with most CFM? I can only see Slip Stream 1900RPM and 2000RPM fans here.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> I don't think the Scythe Slip Stream 800RPM 120mm fans are available in the Philippines. Are there any best alternatives for silent with most CFM? I can only see Slip Stream 1900RPM and 2000RPM fans here.


Gentle Typhoons ? Cougar Vortex's ?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59*
> 
> Gentle Typhoons ? Cougar Vortex's ?


What specific models though?


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> What specific models though?


AP-15's. Or AP-14's if you are noise-sensitive.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59*
> 
> AP-15's. Or AP-14's if you are noise-sensitive.


The difference of both is just CFM and dBa ratings?


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> The difference of both is just CFM and dBa ratings?


With a fan controller you have a wider range to work with using the AP-15's.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> With a fan controller you have a wider range to work with using the AP-15's.


Oh ok. What are other recommendations still? The cheapest one that I can get too.


----------



## a pet rock

Yate loons are very popular for the price. Here they're about $5 a fan. Xinruilian is new from XSPC and are pretty freaking amazing considering they only cost $8. They're only a little bit behind the GT's in performance. Don't know if either are available in the Philippines though.


----------



## solsamurai

I never go cheap with fans. Last couple times I did that I wasn't happy with the results. I have not tired Yate Loon so can't comment. Xinruilian do look interesting.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> I never go cheap with fans. Last couple times I did that I wasn't happy with the results. I have not tired Yate Loon so can't comment. Xinruilian do look interesting.


Ok, so what then is your recommendation for the features I'm looking?







I'm actually gonna be using them on a cabinet (wood cabinet) that's containing my network devices (pfsense box, routers, switches, modems) etc. inside







It is located near our sala so it needs to be silent but can produce a lot of CFM. I'm thinking two intakes and one exhaust so as to build positive pressure (to avoid dust buildup).


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> I never go cheap with fans. Last couple times I did that I wasn't happy with the results. I have not tired Yate Loon so can't comment. Xinruilian do look interesting.


The YTs are actually the default recommendation on SPCR. At low RPM, the airflow and noise level are one of the best. There are better, but for the price it is quite good.


----------



## a pet rock

Indeed, Yate Loons tend to be very well regarded. You have to buy from reputable sources, as they have some QC issues that vary based on retailer.

As for the Xinruilians, ehume did a nice review on them here and on OCN. Same review, I think. Really close the AP-15.


----------



## solsamurai

I'm not against Yates.







I have a config I like and don't have a need to try other fans.


----------



## Bkpizza

In Australia fans tend to be harder to come by apart from the regular brands. Even Scythe is fairly rare. I use Coolermaster R4's for case fans, turned down they work ok and quiet, and I got them for $8 each.


----------



## ehume

If the only Slip Stream you can get is a 1900 rpm, get that and run it at 5v. It comes out to 900-1000 rpm, which is fine. I like SS's best of all the low-priced fans.

The GT's are the best of the moderate-priced fans, IMO.

If you are not in the UK, where you can order directly from XSPC, or the US, someone else may be selling the Xinruilian fans. Very sturdy.

Ultra Kazes. I'd recommend the UK2K's, not the UK3K's. The UK2K's are in the middle of their range, so they should last a long time. UK3K's are noisy, but they do really push air. Overkill, though. UK''s are very sturdy.

High ceiling cases: full tower cases. No wind tunnel. But then, you get a full tower case to hold your rad, right? For air cooling you don't need so much room.

In items 1 and 4 of my sig you can find studies that include many types of fans.


----------



## ehume

OK. My review of the Phantom 410 is up. You can see what I think is important in a case.


----------



## solsamurai

Nice. I'll check it out when I get home from work. Got nothing better to do since my system is Boinc'ing away for the next several days.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> If the only Slip Stream you can get is a 1900 rpm, get that and run it at 5v. It comes out to 900-1000 rpm, which is fine. I like SS's best of all the low-priced fans.
> 
> The GT's are the best of the moderate-priced fans, IMO.
> 
> If you are not in the UK, where you can order directly from XSPC, or the US, someone else may be selling the Xinruilian fans. Very sturdy.
> 
> Ultra Kazes. I'd recommend the UK2K's, not the UK3K's. The UK2K's are in the middle of their range, so they should last a long time. UK3K's are noisy, but they do really push air. Overkill, though. UK''s are very sturdy.
> 
> High ceiling cases: full tower cases. No wind tunnel. But then, you get a full tower case to hold your rad, right? For air cooling you don't need so much room.
> 
> In items 1 and 4 of my sig you can find studies that include many types of fans.


If I decide the Slip Stream 1900RPM at 5V, do I need to use 4 of them (2 intakes and 2 exhausts) on my cabinet to have optimal airflow?

For my HAF922 case, is it better to have one top front intake fan (and blocking the rear area) than having a 200mm intake fan in there?


----------



## ivanlabrie

Hi Ehume, digged your phantom 410 review







!
I'm a fellow air cooler and OCFer as well.









Question, do you think the Lian Li pc-a04 could do fine as an air cooled case? I have a noctua nh-c14, and I'm not too sure on how to rig the case.
It comes with two front intakes -kind of at the bottom, but the case is really short so those cover most of it's height- and a rear/high exhaust.
Taking into account that the I have a top down cooler, what would you say is best?









Don't know if I can (or if I should) fit a third front intake in the 5.25 bays...some zip ties could work fine, but I'm not sure if it'd fit there. That should make it work similarly to the pc-90...


----------



## solsamurai

The only thing I don't like about that case is the position of the top panel fan. Love the completely mesh-free exhaust hole. Adding a fan in the 5.25 bay would be easy. Lian Li makes 5.25 mesh covers and a fan could be secured with zipties or foam.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> If I decide the Slip Stream 1900RPM at 5V, do I need to use 4 of them (2 intakes and 2 exhausts) on my cabinet to have optimal airflow?
> For my HAF922 case, is it better to have one top front intake fan (and blocking the rear area) than having a 200mm intake fan in there?


You won't need 2 exhaust fans if you cut out the rear mesh and remove the pci slot covers. It is even possible you don't need exhaust fans at all as the hot air should just automatically escape from the case. Maybe it is a good idea to add a 140mm+ side panel fan that can run will run at low RPM like a TY-140, TY-150, Prolimatech Vortex, etc (nice quiet slow fans).

Since the 200mm top fan is directly above the SA, a 120mm fan placed on the front-top section would serve better by not causing turbulence in the wind tunnel within the SA.


----------



## pedokuma

Hi,
I just collected a Phantom 410 running on an Antec 920. What is the desirable fans set up?

My current set up idea:

Front 12mm Input (Stock)
Bottom 12mm Input
Top Rear 14mm Input (Stock)
Top Front 12 mm Input (Stock)
Rear 920 Rad Exhaust

How will this work. Planning to get 1-2 D12SH-12 or D12SM-12. Is it required and where or which fan should i replace.

Thank You for the help.


----------



## ehume

I wrote the review in such a way that you should be able to make intelligent decisions on your own, once you get the case. You can compare temps and see.

As for the Lian Li case, I'll look into it tonight after my conference.


----------



## sh1v

I know you took a look at the Z9 case and thought it was good. Could you take a look at the Z11 as well? Z9 and Z11 have the same skeleton except Z11 has two 80mm exhaust fans on the side near the hdd. thanks for the guide


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> You won't need 2 exhaust fans if you cut out the rear mesh and remove the pci slot covers. It is even possible you don't need exhaust fans at all as the hot air should just automatically escape from the case. Maybe it is a good idea to add a 140mm+ side panel fan that can run will run at low RPM like a TY-140, TY-150, Prolimatech Vortex, etc (nice quiet slow fans).
> Since the 200mm top fan is directly above the SA, a 120mm fan placed on the front-top section would serve better by not causing turbulence in the wind tunnel within the SA.


1.) The 2 intake and 2 exhaust fans question was pertaining to my CABINET. My cabinet has all my network devices in it: a computer (pfsense box), 2 modems, 1 switch, 1 linksys router, poewr supplies, lan cables, etc.). It is a closed area and needs fans in it to avoid device overheating. My question is what is the optimal setup for this? I want it to be silent because it's near our dining area.

2.) My top front intake fan was pertaining to my personal desktop computer (HAF922 case). Right now I have the stock 200mm (non-LED fan) on the top intake slot. The 200mm fan is just 1000RPM (low speed) and has a cone-shaped wind flow pattern. How can it disturb the wind tunnel effect of my SA heatsink and create turbulence?


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> OK. My review of the Phantom 410 is up. You can see what I think is important in a case.


Nice review!









One quick question:
If were to choose from that one and the Corsair Carbide 500R (they both are similar and cost pretty much the same) which one would you take for an air cooling setup?


----------



## kevindd992002

The Slip Streams are different from the Slip Stream Slims, right? Are you recommending the standard Slip Stream or slim Slip Streams to me?


----------



## ginja-ninja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> OK. My review of the Phantom 410 is up. You can see what I think is important in a case.


Awesome in depth review







I'm actually really glad I went with this case. I'm gonna be replacing the 2 front intake fans with 2 Yate Loons and I'm thinking 1 TY-140 intake up top with the rear spot blocked off.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> The only thing I don't like about that case is the position of the top panel fan. Love the completely mesh-free exhaust hole. Adding a fan in the 5.25 bay would be easy. Lian Li makes 5.25 mesh covers and a fan could be secured with zipties or foam.


I think I'll get those mesh bay covers and fit a 120mm in there







That should give the cpu some fresh outside air. Which would get exhausted at the back/top. Sounds like a plan, right?








Really useful thread and advice given here.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> The Slip Streams are different from the Slip Stream Slims, right? Are you recommending the standard Slip Stream or slim Slip Streams to me?


oops misread the part about the cabinet. not sure what to do about that.

I'm taljing about the regular SSs, not slims.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> I think I'll get those mesh bay covers and fit a 120mm in there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That should give the cpu some fresh outside air. Which would get exhausted at the back/top. Sounds like a plan, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Really useful thread and advice given here.


Sounds like a plan, sir!







I'd also try the top fan as intake and see how temps compare. This would help out with dust a bit but may not help with temps. You can also see if removing the PCI slot covers helps a bit. In my case it allows a good chuck of my GPU's hot air to blow out the back instead of rising up into the Silver Arrow.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Sounds like a plan, sir!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd also try the top fan as intake and see how temps compare. This would help out with dust a bit but may not help with temps. You can also see if removing the PCI slot covers helps a bit. In my case it allows a good chuck of my GPU's hot air to blow out the back instead of rising up into the Silver Arrow.


I thought of trying the top as intake too, and removing the rear grill -where you'd normally place an 80mm fan I don't intend to use ever-
I should add a dust filter to that top intake though...
I'll remove all the pci slot covers and the grills, and add a dust filter there.


----------



## solsamurai

Looking forward to your results.


----------



## ehume

Both the Corsair Carbide 500R and the Zalman Z11 are better choices. I own an NZXT Beta Evo, which I enjoy. But even if I had the room . . . hmm; if I left the roof off the Phantom 410, it would fit . . . I would not use the Phantom 410 in place of my own case. But if I needed to build a new rig to replace my wife's Dell, I'd probably use this case -- because it would cost me nothing except the time needed to mod it, and then it would be adequate to the task.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Both the Corsair Carbide 500R and the Zalman Z11 are better choices. I own an NZXT Beta Evo, which I enjoy. But even if I had the room . . . hmm; if I left the roof off the Phantom 410, it would fit . . . I would not use the Phantom 410 in place of my own case. But if I needed to build a new rig to replace my wife's Dell, I'd probably use this case -- because it would cost me nothing except the time needed to mod it, and then it would be adequate to the task.


Ehume, any thoughts on my cabinet question?

Have you received my PM? Thanks.


----------



## ehume

I like the PC-A04 in many ways. Lian Li understands filters. They understand filters better than anyone else who makes cases.

The PC-A04 is flexible.

What I dislike about it is the rear-only top fan hole. Antec does this too and I despise the practice by both these case makers.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I like the PC-A04 in many ways. Lian Li understands filters. They understand filters better than anyone else who makes cases.
> 
> The PC-A04 is flexible.
> 
> What I dislike about it is the rear-only top fan hole. Antec does this too and I despise the practice by both these case makers.


I find it odd too, I thought it came with a regular 120mm rear exhaust, but nope...an 80mm rear exhaust grill -no fan included, luckily- and that top 120mm exhaust.
If I revert it I'm gonna get tons of dust into my case methinks.


----------



## kevindd992002

@ehume

What do you think about my question regarding the cabinet setup? How many fans do I need?

When you recommended the Slip Stream, are those the normal ones or the slim ones? Where does it say that running a 1900RPM Slip Stream at 5V would yield around 900~1000RPM, are there any tests already? I'm worried that 5V is not enough to start the fan.


----------



## nimitz87

I've seen a picture of 2 CPU fans attached via a zip tie, how's that done?

setting up a push/pull for my 212+, and going to remove the top 200 for 2 120's then expierement and try it with the back 120 blocked off.


----------



## ehume

Sorry I haven't paid attn to the cabinet. I'm attending a conference this week, and my time comes and goes.

I don't recommend the slim types unless they are unavoidable -- and then I'd recommend designing so you won't need them. Too much noise, too little air.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Sorry I haven't paid attn to the cabinet. I'm attending a conference this week, and my time comes and goes.
> 
> I don't recommend the slim types unless they are unavoidable -- and then I'd recommend designing so you won't need them. Too much noise, too little air.


Ok. So the Slip Stream regular ones either 1900RPM or 2000RPM are recommended to run at 5V for the same effect as having a 800RPM at 12V?


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Ok. So the Slip Stream regular ones either 1900RPM or 2000RPM are recommended to run at 5V for the same effect as having a 800RPM at 12V?


Pretty much.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59*
> 
> Pretty much.


I can buy these fans: SY1225SL12H-P locally. They're Slipstream but are they the same as SY1225SL12SH? They are rated at 1900RPM both. What is their difference?


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Both the Corsair Carbide 500R and the Zalman Z11 are better choices. I own an NZXT Beta Evo, which I enjoy. But even if I had the room . . . hmm; if I left the roof off the Phantom 410, it would fit . . . I would not use the Phantom 410 in place of my own case. But if I needed to build a new rig to replace my wife's Dell, I'd probably use this case -- because it would cost me nothing except the time needed to mod it, and then it would be adequate to the task.


I was thinking about the Carbide 500R for a little, the price was good as well (about 120€), the same for the Phantom 410.
And then I've read this review:

http://uk.hardware.info/reviews/2620/11-computer-cases-tested-from-p70---p110

It seems for them the winners are the Antec Eleven Hundred and the Cooler Master CM 690 II Advanced.









I remained impressed of the SilverStone Raven RV03 instead. I always liked its strange, different look but I didn't realize it cool so well.



And it costs the same 120 €.
I don't know, the noise level is higher, however I feel I'm attracted by the weird raven.
What do you think?


----------



## a pet rock

I would assume that review only used stock fan positions. I bet most of those cases would do better with a well-thought out fan placement. The reason the Raven does so well is because there are no obstructions between the fans and the hardware. Lian-Li was famous for this and they still make some towers that do this, although very expensive.


----------



## solsamurai

IMO any reviews that still think the Antec Eleven Hundred and CM 690 II Advanced are better cases than some of the more recent offerings by other companies are biased, don't know how to configure airflow and give unreliable results. I know it's asking alot to setup each case with the same hardware and then test with multiple airflow configs but that's what needs to be done. Stock fans and their initial orientation (usually really bad negative pressure) will always give mixed results from case to case.

Ok rant over, lol.


----------



## ehume

I like the 690. The two Antecs have top fans only at the back. No thanks.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *adridu59*
> 
> Pretty much.
> 
> 
> 
> I can buy these fans: SY1225SL12H-P locally. They're Slipstream but are they the same as SY1225SL12SH? They are rated at 1900RPM both. What is their difference?
Click to expand...

I believe the -P is PWM. That's a good thing.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nimitz87*
> 
> I've seen a picture of 2 CPU fans attached via a zip tie, how's that done?
> 
> setting up a push/pull for my 212+, and going to remove the top 200 for 2 120's then expierement and try it with the back 120 blocked off.


Look at my sig, under *Ziptie Screw*.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> Ok, so what then is your recommendation for the features I'm looking?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm actually gonna be using them on a cabinet (wood cabinet) that's containing my network devices (pfsense box, routers, switches, modems) etc. inside
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is located near our sala so it needs to be silent but can produce a lot of CFM. I'm thinking two intakes and one exhaust so as to build positive pressure (to avoid dust buildup).


OK. Kevin, it's not the positive pressure that keeps the dust out. You keep dust out by filtering your intake fans. If you have all your gear in a cabinet you want to leave the air exit open so the air will flow out. If I had my stuff in a cabinet and if I didn't need to get at my rig -- a remote power switch, for example -- I'd probably pull air from next to the wall. You can use some light gauge nails/long tacks to hold the filters in a way that makes them easy to pull up and clean.The setup would be too ugly to have at the front or the side of your cabinet.

So your intake fans would be at the back where you can't hear them. The air would exit from the front, and with no exit fans the noise is minimized.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I like the 690. The two Antecs have top fans only at the back. No thanks.


Yes but notice that it has only 4 front 5,25 bays, therefore you can't add a second front, top (modded) fan if you have a DVD writer and a fan controller.
Would you answer me please what do you think about the SilverStone Raven RV03, is there any way to improve its fans for a better noise level and good air cooling?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I believe the -P is PWM. That's a good thing.


Ok. Are these fans already tested at 5V though?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> OK. Kevin, it's not the positive pressure that keeps the dust out. You keep dust out by filtering your intake fans. If you have all your gear in a cabinet you want to leave the air exit open so the air will flow out. If I had my stuff in a cabinet and if I didn't need to get at my rig -- a remote power switch, for example -- I'd probably pull air from next to the wall. You can use some light gauge nails/long tacks to hold the filters in a way that makes them easy to pull up and clean.The setup would be too ugly to have at the front or the side of your cabinet.
> 
> So your intake fans would be at the back where you can't hear them. The air would exit from the front, and with no exit fans the noise is minimized.


Hmmm, ok. Actually, the cabinet has been operating two years now and my previous setup was two intake fans in the right side (top and bottom) with filters and one exhaust fan in the left side bottom (without any grill) and one left top side air exit hole. I want to replace all the fans since they are cheap fans. So based on my understanding on your recommendation, I only need two side intake fans with filter in the right side and leave the left side with two air exit holes? Is that enough for my purpose?

But positive pressure wouldn't suck in extra dirt from the tiny openings of the cabinet compared to negative pressure, right? That is what I mean by avoiding dust buildup.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I believe the -P is PWM. That's a good thing.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. Are these fans already tested at 5V though?
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> OK. Kevin, it's not the positive pressure that keeps the dust out. You keep dust out by filtering your intake fans. If you have all your gear in a cabinet you want to leave the air exit open so the air will flow out. If I had my stuff in a cabinet and if I didn't need to get at my rig -- a remote power switch, for example -- I'd probably pull air from next to the wall. You can use some light gauge nails/long tacks to hold the filters in a way that makes them easy to pull up and clean.The setup would be too ugly to have at the front or the side of your cabinet.
> 
> So your intake fans would be at the back where you can't hear them. The air would exit from the front, and with no exit fans the noise is minimized.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hmmm, ok. Actually, the cabinet has been operating two years now and my previous setup was two intake fans in the right side (top and bottom) with filters and one exhaust fan in the left side bottom (without any grill) and one left top side air exit hole. I want to replace all the fans since they are cheap fans. So based on my understanding on your recommendation, I only need two side intake fans with filter in the right side and leave the left side with two air exit holes? Is that enough for my purpose?
> 
> But positive pressure wouldn't suck in extra dirt from the tiny openings of the cabinet compared to negative pressure, right? That is what I mean by avoiding dust buildup.
Click to expand...

Only negative pressure pulls in dust though unfiltered orifices. Positive pressure keeps dust from coming in the cracks. You only need worry about what gets past your filters.

Nothing wrong with cheap fans, as long as they perform well.

With adequate intake you need not worry about exhaust.

Silverstone RV03:

I'd rather have an FT02.

The back panel fan position is too high; if it had beed set lower it would make a great feed for graphics cards.

I don't see how you could change the RV03 unless you cut a new back panel side hole for a fan.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Only negative pressure pulls in dust though unfiltered orifices. Positive pressure keeps dust from coming in the cracks. You only need worry about what gets past your filters.
> 
> Nothing wrong with cheap fans, as long as they perform well.
> 
> With adequate intake you need not worry about exhaust.
> 
> Silverstone RV03:
> 
> I'd rather have an FT02.
> 
> The back panel fan position is too high; if it had beed set lower it would make a great feed for graphics cards.
> 
> I don't see how you could change the RV03 unless you cut a new back panel side hole for a fan.


Ok. So how many fans is "adequate" for my purpose then?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Ok. So how many fans is "adequate" for my purpose then?


Only you can figure that out, by experimenting.

There are many things we cannot figure out a priori. The Greeks thought they could, and they were wrong. The Romans knew they couldn't, and tried things. They built a huge empire that lasted centuries, and if you count Byzantium, nearly two millennia.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Only you can figure that out, by experimenting.
> 
> There are many things we cannot figure out a priori. The Greeks thought they could, and they were wrong. The Romans knew they couldn't, and tried things. They built a huge empire that lasted centuries, and if you count Byzantium, nearly two millennia.


Ok. Do you have a link where it says that the 1900RPM slipstreams can run easily at 5V?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Only you can figure that out, by experimenting.
> 
> There are many things we cannot figure out a priori. The Greeks thought they could, and they were wrong. The Romans knew they couldn't, and tried things. They built a huge empire that lasted centuries, and if you count Byzantium, nearly two millennia.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok. Do you have a link where it says that the 1900RPM slipstreams can run easily at 5V?
Click to expand...

No. But I have done it myself. If you have a Scythe fan you have a Molex adapter. You can adapt the adapter to get 5 Volts. I've done it a number of times.


----------



## ehume

Just went downstairs and tested

SS-1900 #1: 1954 rpm at 12v, 994 rpm at 5v

SS-1900 #2: 1985 rpm at 12v, 974 rpm at 5v

Both fans started easily.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Yes but notice that it has only 4 front 5,25 bays, therefore you can't add a second front, top (modded) fan if you have a DVD writer and a fan controller.
> Would you answer me please what do you think about the SilverStone Raven RV03, is there any way to improve its fans for a better noise level and good air cooling?


If you really want the case I'd look into replacing the top stock fan. There's a fan mount on the back side of the m/b. Definitely add a fan there and experiment with intake vs exhaust. Either that or go for one of the Raven series that has three bottom intakes vs the two of the RV03. I've always liked the idea of the bottom to top airflow but never liked how any of the cases looked. That and I wish they would release a version that had two 120/140 fans up top or do away with those vent fins and just have top mesh or something.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Just went downstairs and tested
> 
> SS-1900 #1: 1954 rpm at 12v, 994 rpm at 5v
> SS-1900 #2: 1985 rpm at 12v, 974 rpm at 5v
> 
> Both fans started easily.


And at this speed they are night silent?

Do this tests come for the PWM 19000RPM also?


----------



## ehume

Don't know about the pwm -- never owned one.

At 860 rpm in free air, a Slip Stream makes the equivalent of 15 dBA at 1m. You won't hear it.

As for "night silent" try night in New York City some time, or in Manila.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Don't know about the pwm -- never owned one.
> 
> At 860 rpm in free air, a Slip Stream makes the equivalent of 15 dBA at 1m. You won't hear it.
> 
> As for "night silent" try night in New York City some time, or in Manila.


Or most of Los Angeles, lol. When I visit my folks in a different city it's so quiet I have a heard time falling asleep.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Don't know about the pwm -- never owned one.
> 
> At 860 rpm in free air, a Slip Stream makes the equivalent of 15 dBA at 1m. You won't hear it.
> 
> As for "night silent" try night in New York City some time, or in Manila.


Lol, ok. No worries, I'm from Manila.


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Or most of Los Angeles, lol. When I visit my folks in a different city it's so quiet I have a heard time falling asleep.


but it's the quiet cities that are infested with those REALLY loud bugs at night


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> but it's the quiet cities that are infested with those REALLY loud bugs at night


Lol, you'd like to think that 'til you've heard the crazy loud crickets that terrorize my complex every summer.







They used to sneak into my living room through a hole in the same corner where my system is! Crafty 'lil @#$&*!!

Per the mentioning of the Raven cases a bit earlier I'm curious what everyone else thinks about them. Thoughts?


----------



## ehume

Ravens: too much glitz IMO.


----------



## solsamurai

Sorry I mean the airflow design and all...


----------



## ehume

Too much glitz, not enough guts.


----------



## solsamurai

I'm wondering how in any case two or three 140-180mm fans with a honeycomb or similar mesh up top would do? Blow it all out the top with the same 90 degree m/b rotation and all...


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Per the mentioning of the Raven cases a bit earlier I'm curious what everyone else thinks about them. Thoughts?


uhm... which raven?

RV01: 1st gen, experimental, lots of flaws. more of a proof of concept case then a production case.

RV02-E: best air cooled case you'll find on the market right now. share the same internals as a FT02. it has 3 x 180mm filtered intake fans... no other case offer that much filtered intake. (except it's sister case the FT02)

RV03: tried but failed to improve the RV02. went back to 2 x 180mm fans like the RV01. overall they punched too many holes in the case design and as result the airflow pattern is worse then the RV02. BUT, if you like a really REALLY LOUD case, it does offer you plenty of places to mount ALOT of fans that doesn't really improve the overall cooling performance by much......


----------



## ehume

I think if I got a Raven, I'd remove the fan from the top, even remove the finger guard (it's not exposed, after all), remove unused slot covers and nibble off the slot pillars. I'd also nibble a second backside fan hole.

As usual, I'm all for push, not pull on cases.


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> I'm wondering how in any case two or three 140-180mm fans with a honeycomb or similar mesh up top would do? Blow it all out the top with the same 90 degree m/b rotation and all...


?? you trying to build your own case?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Per the mentioning of the Raven cases a bit earlier I'm curious what everyone else thinks about them. Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> uhm... which raven?
> 
> RV01: 1st gen, experimental, lots of flaws. more of a proof of concept case then a production case.
> 
> RV02-E: best air cooled case you'll find on the market right now. share the same internals as a FT02. it has 3 x 180mm filtered intake fans... no other case offer that much filtered intake. (except it's sister case the FT02)
> 
> RV03: tried but failed to improve the RV02. went back to 2 x 180mm fans like the RV01. overall they punched too many holes in the case design and as result the airflow pattern is worse then the RV02. BUT, if you like a really REALLY LOUD case, it does offer you plenty of places to mount ALOT of fans that doesn't really improve the overall cooling performance by much......
Click to expand...

Ooooh. Sorry I missed this while we were cross-posting.

Tell us how you really feel.

Plus rep for the enjoyable post.


----------



## psyclum

well we disagree on different things, but i don't think you'd disagree on the cooling power of 3 x 130 CFM filtered intake fans







especially considering the distance between intake and exhaust is only 13.5 inchs


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> well we disagree on different things, but i don't think you'd disagree on the cooling power of 3 x 130 CFM filtered intake fans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> especially considering the distance between intake and exhaust is only 13.5 inchs


Can't disagree. Whoooosh!


----------



## solsamurai

Whoooosh indeed!


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Per the mentioning of the Raven cases a bit earlier I'm curious what everyone else thinks about them. Thoughts?
> 
> 
> 
> uhm... which raven?
> 
> RV01: 1st gen, experimental, lots of flaws. more of a proof of concept case then a production case.
> 
> RV02-E: best air cooled case you'll find on the market right now. share the same internals as a FT02. it has 3 x 180mm filtered intake fans... no other case offer that much filtered intake. (except it's sister case the FT02)
> 
> RV03: tried but failed to improve the RV02. went back to 2 x 180mm fans like the RV01. overall they punched too many holes in the case design and as result the airflow pattern is worse then the RV02. *BUT, if you like a really REALLY LOUD case*, it does offer you plenty of places to mount ALOT of fans that doesn't really improve the overall cooling performance by much......
Click to expand...

Obviously I don't like a _"really REALLY LOUD case"_ so I'll just forget about it.
And the two RV02-E and FT02 are simply too big for my taste and I don't like that they're right sided however.
I'll just think of some other models.


----------



## nawon72

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> Would you answer me please what do you think about the SilverStone Raven RV03, is there any way to improve its fans for a better noise level and good air cooling?


The AP181's (mine anyways) are loud because of the amount of vibration. If your AP181's "growl" at full speed, then it's likely all of them are like this.

After lubing my fans, I put one of the AP181s on a wood desk, and ran it at full speed perpendicular to the Earth, and it sounded almost identical to it in my case. Then I lifted it up just above the desk while it was running, and It sounded like a completely different fan. Even at 1200RPM, it was near silent, or maybe it sounded that way since all I heard was air moving. Even that was feint. I did the same test, but with the fan parallel to the Earth. I used two fans underneath the bottom corners, and one fan under the top middle of the fan frame to give the AP181 breathing room. The results seemed the same to me. *Notes:* The fans made the same vibration noise when they were new, and when they were lubed IIRC. Also, the AP181 continued rotating ~18s after removing power in the perpendicular position, and ~12s-13s in parallel. I wonder if that even means anything...

So I would recommend you use something to reduce the vibration. For example, silicone fan mounts. Those ones are ehume recommended. I can't comment on their effectiveness (haven't bought them, yet), and maybe they are less effective when the fan is putting it's weight right on them (parallel to Earth).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> RV03: tried but failed to improve the RV02. went back to 2 x 180mm fans like the RV01. overall they punched too many holes in the case design and as result the airflow pattern is worse then the RV02. BUT, if you like a really REALLY LOUD case, it does offer you plenty of places to mount ALOT of fans that doesn't really improve the overall cooling performance by much......


The 3rd AP181 of the FT02 and RV02 is cooling the HDD's, so I don't think it is helping the GPUs much. Also, the motherboard tray is larger. There is basically 5cm of wasted vertical space for ATX users, which could have been used to move the fans closer to the mobo. If that space wasn't wasted, I think the RV03 would have performed similarly, assuming you block off the "extra holes" which let the air escape a bit early. AFAIK, the extra fans don't do much of anything. Maybe when all the fans are turned way down it would help.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> Ravens: too much glitz IMO.


Agreed. I keep mine bare so it doesn't look too flashy







No top cover, no top fan or grill, no extra PCI slots covers, no front 5.25" covers...

I hope SilverStone makes a much improved RV03 (thermally, functionally, ect), but in an mATX form factor(and an ATX variant if possible), slimmer (maybe AP141s?), smaller in general, all aluminum, and with external WC in mind.


----------



## arrow0309

I'm reading some reviews of a big tower, mid priced, the Aerocool XPredator.








The only issue: there's a big, 230mm top fan which can be swapped to two 120/140 top fans, this way we'll be able to create our intake style.



There are also 4 120/140 side panel fan positions and plenty of space to add another one frontal, top fan.

http://www.nexthardware.com/repository/recensioni/554/immagini/img_AEROCOOLXPREDATORASSEMBLAGGIO13_4093866163472164038.jpg

What do you guys think of?


----------



## nimitz87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Look at my sig, under *Ziptie Screw*.


thanks for this didn't see it in tapatalk:thumb:


----------



## ehume

On the Aerocool XPredator:

I think I'd use Velcro to attach the top 200mm fan further forward, but I'd use it. Full tower cases often have high ceilings, which make trying to get a wind tunnel effect impossible. But this case seems to have a low ceiling, so setting that fan further forward would be a good idea.

Six 5.25 slots means there is plenty of vertical room for a 140mm fan in the 5.25 bay. And you'll need that, since the 3.5 HD holder is very restrictive.

It's wide enough, but the reviews I saw didn't measure out the distance behind the motherboard.

I'm not happy with trying to pull air through slots in Plexiglas.

But overall, seems to be a competent case.


----------



## arrow0309

And don't forget the price too, only 120€.
Thanks for the tips, maybe it would be better to use the same big fan as top (front) intake or better a 200mm blue one (I like blue led fans).

As for the side panel, I already have 4 blue R4's (gonna downvolt them) and yes I'll have to pull the air through the window Plexiglas but I will not put any filers there.


----------



## ehume

Be sure to show off with pics when the build is done.


----------



## adridu59

Can't go wrong with the XPredator.


----------



## tmunn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Ok. Do you have a link where it says that the 1900RPM slipstreams can run easily at 5V?


Here you go...










Link It's the second one down.

I run two of these fans as my front intakes. The lower fan which has two hard drives behind it is set to permanent 5V. The top fan is controlled by Speedfan, as is the cpu fan. Here is a pic at cleaning time.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tmunn*
> 
> Here you go...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link It's the second one down.
> I run two of these fans as my front intakes. The lower fan which has two hard drives behind it is set to permanent 5V. The top fan is controlled by Speedfan, as is the cpu fan. Here is a pic at cleaning time.


But that says 400RPM when ehume mentioned it should run around 800~900RPM at 5V according to his own tests. How can we explain the discrepancy there?


----------



## tmunn

ehume's test was free air, no?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Don't know about the pwm -- never owned one.
> 
> *At 860 rpm in free air*, a Slip Stream makes the equivalent of 15 dBA at 1m. You won't hear it.
> 
> As for "night silent" try night in New York City some time, or in Manila.


SPCR's methodology incorporates restrictive surfaces.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Be sure to show off with pics when the build is done.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *adridu59*
> 
> Can't go wrong with the XPredator.


Thank you guys, I'll definitely go for the XPredator and post lots of everything.









However this process is gonna take me some time since I'm going to change my pc components entirely (except fo two hd) passing at the new intel Z77/Ivy Bridge technology.
My actual pc is going to be sell to my daughter's fiancé. Right now we're both having financial issues but we hope will mange everything soon enough.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tmunn*
> 
> ehume's test was free air, no?
> SPCR's methodology incorporates restrictive surfaces.


Hmmm, ok. For my purpose, I should only worry about free air right?


----------



## ivanlabrie

Been eyeing aerocool cases...they're really cheap!
I've also stumbled upon a couple more cases that look interesting.
Cheap ones like the TT Dokker and v3, and a cute smallish one, the lian li pc-v534.
What do you guys think of those? There're not many choices in Buenos Aires atm. It's one of those or the pc-a04...or the pc-a05fn.








Ps: I'd like a smaller footprint and those would fit my budget and criteria...


----------



## mm67

I just tested a Slip Stream PWM like this : http://www.scythe-eu.com/en/products/fans/slip-stream-120-pwm-adjustable.html on voltage and PWM controls

Running with voltage control :


And same fan running with PWM control :


Variable range knob was set to max speed during both test runs. These seem to be quite similar to normal 1900 rpm Slip Streams that ehume tested when running on voltage control.

edit.

When range knob is set to minimum speed response to PWM control looks like this :


And same with voltage control :


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mm67*
> 
> I just tested a Slip Stream PWM like this : http://www.scythe-eu.com/en/products/fans/slip-stream-120-pwm-adjustable.html on voltage and PWM controls
> Running with voltage control :
> 
> And same fan running with PWM control :
> 
> Variable range knob was set to max speed during both test runs. These seem to be quite similar to normal 1900 rpm Slip Streams that ehume tested when running on voltage control.
> edit.
> When range knob is set to minimum speed response to PWM control looks like this :
> 
> And same with voltage control :


So that means that at 5V this fan is somewhere between 800~1000RPM. Good to know


----------



## ehume

mm67 - I wish you had put that in two posts so I could give you 2 reps. That was just awesome.


----------



## kevindd992002

By the way, I just use a Klein Nibbler to cut off the pci pillar slots but I noticed that it didn't even improve my GPU temps, so why is that?


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> mm67 - I wish you had put that in two posts so I could give you 2 reps. That was just awesome.


Got the other rep covered for ya.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> By the way, I just use a Klein Nibbler to cut off the pci pillar slots but I noticed that it didn't even improve my GPU temps, so why is that?


Do you have a mid case fan? Can't remember...it's not always a guarantee temps will go down. Or perhaps it's warmer due to summer approaching?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Got the other rep covered for ya.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have a mid case fan? Can't remember...it's not always a guarantee temps will go down. Or perhaps it's warmer due to summer approaching?


Yes I do have a TY140 midcase fan. Well, I'm from the Philippines here and it's always hot in here especially during the summer









Will cutting the slot pillars off supposedly affect only GPU temps?


----------



## Orc Warlord

Would this work well for cooling?


----------



## SniperTeamTango

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Orc Warlord*
> 
> Would this work well for cooling?


I'd need more data than that.

Hey guys, just another air cooling madman


----------



## ehume

Kevin

Cutting out your slot pillars will help if your gpu blows air into and out of the case, and if you have a goodly supply of air coming from your mid-case fan. Basically, it is something you do to to improve airflow by improving your exhaust. If your gpu already sends all of its air out the back -- as with an NVIDIA reference design, for example -- cutting out the slot pillars will not improve gpu temps. What it will do in that case is render your rig slightly quieter.


----------



## Orc Warlord

Sure.

I am using a HAF X case and I will have:

140mm front intake
230mm front intake

140mm rear intake

200mm side intake

2x200mm top exhaust

h100 push/pull, pulling air out of case


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Kevin
> 
> Cutting out your slot pillars will help if your gpu blows air into and out of the case, and if you have a goodly supply of air coming from your mid-case fan. Basically, it is something you do to to improve airflow by improving your exhaust. If your gpu already sends all of its air out the back -- as with an NVIDIA reference design, for example -- cutting out the slot pillars will not improve gpu temps. What it will do in that case is render your rig slightly quieter.


Thanks for the input. AFAIK, my videocard (MSI Hawk GeForce 560 Ti) blows hot air into and out of the case so I was expecting a little temp drops but I did not see that. What could possibly be the problem?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Kevin
> 
> Cutting out your slot pillars will help if your gpu blows air into and out of the case, and if you have a goodly supply of air coming from your mid-case fan. Basically, it is something you do to to improve airflow by improving your exhaust. If your gpu already sends all of its air out the back -- as with an NVIDIA reference design, for example -- cutting out the slot pillars will not improve gpu temps. What it will do in that case is render your rig slightly quieter.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the input. AFAIK, my videocard (MSI Hawk GeForce 560 Ti) blows hot air into and out of the case so I was expecting a little temp drops but I did not see that. What could possibly be the problem?
Click to expand...

The problem is that gpu cooling is the most vexing problem there is. Sometimes I wonder if a rear side panel intake coupled with a forward side panel exhaust would be a rational way to deal with gpu cooling.

What could possibly be the problem? How could you not have a problem? Everyone else does.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> The problem is that gpu cooling is the most vexing problem there is. Sometimes I wonder if a rear side panel intake coupled with a forward side panel exhaust would be a rational way to deal with gpu cooling.
> 
> What could possibly be the problem? How could you _not_ have a problem? Everyone else does.


Hmmm, ok. So right now the only thing that was proven by cutting the slot pillars of my case is that it made everything slightly quieter?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> The problem is that gpu cooling is the most vexing problem there is. Sometimes I wonder if a rear side panel intake coupled with a forward side panel exhaust would be a rational way to deal with gpu cooling.
> 
> What could possibly be the problem? How could you _not_ have a problem? Everyone else does.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm, ok. So right now the only thing that was proven by cutting the slot pillars of my case is that it made everything slightly quieter?
Click to expand...

If you didn't get cooler temps, then that's all. Unless you come up with more powerful fans moving air in the middle of the case. But at least you will know that you have removed that potential impediment.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> If you didn't get cooler temps, then that's all. Unless you come up with more powerful fans moving air in the middle of the case. But at least you will know that you have removed that potential impediment.


Ok. I just feel that I wasted money on purchasing the Klein Nibbler


----------



## nimitz87

running my haf 922 with two 120 top fans, 120 rear, stock 200mm front.

I also have two 120's to put on the side panels but don't have them on atm.

i5 2500k + hyper 212+ @ 4.3ghz 1.248v idle temps 31-34 100% load 50-55

still need to add the second fan to the 212, experiment with blocking off the rear 120 on the top, and add the 2 side 120 door fans.

not terrible though right?


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Ok. I just feel that I wasted money on purchasing the Klein Nibbler


well.... that's a relative thing. if you perceived a reduction in noise, that is already a step in the right direction. cooling by itself is not hard at all. pump about 1000CFM's through any case with some delta fans will keep ANYTHING cool







however, achieving the same goal at less then deafening noise is the trick in proper cooling. so you see, cooling is really a function of noise when it comes to computers. a reduction in noise level is actually a very expensive step since people spend hundreds of $'s on aftermarket fans simply to achieve the same goal at a reduced decibel level.

personally i'm not a believer in cutting out the expansion slots, (i'm more of a positive pressure type person where some pressure is a good thing) but if you are able to achieve quieter operation through cutting the slots, you are definitely 1 step closer to your goal.


----------



## She loved E

Sorry for the cel phone pics but hopefully the accompanying info makes up for it.

I'm working on my first build now using a Corsair 650d. i love the smooth cool flow options outlined in this thread. trying to emulate that while keeping it simple, I'm working on doing as much as i can while using only the fans corsair gave me and CPU cooling from a Noctua NH-D14.

Here's the flow...



flipped top fan (so its pulling air in) and moved it forward some. Will probably cover the rest of the opening once I figure out how to do it w/stuff laying around the house.







And I moved the 120mm fan to the upper front for front to back airflow and positive pressure.





I







zipties.







I did my best to seal around the fan with some neoprene I had laying around for a motorcycle seat project. A spare Corsair front grill cut down to the size of the opening is my plan to clean up the look.

still in progress so no idea if it'll work other than the good results with this general layout that people here have had.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> well.... that's a relative thing. if you perceived a reduction in noise, that is already a step in the right direction. cooling by itself is not hard at all. pump about 1000CFM's through any case with some delta fans will keep ANYTHING cool
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> however, achieving the same goal at less then deafening noise is the trick in proper cooling. so you see, cooling is really a function of noise when it comes to computers. a reduction in noise level is actually a very expensive step since people spend hundreds of $'s on aftermarket fans simply to achieve the same goal at a reduced decibel level.
> personally i'm not a believer in cutting out the expansion slots, (i'm more of a positive pressure type person where some pressure is a good thing) but if you are able to achieve quieter operation through cutting the slots, you are definitely 1 step closer to your goal.


And I'm not even 100% sure that there was a decrease in noise level before and after cutting out those slot pillars.


----------



## ehume

Kevin

I'm sorry cutting out those pillars did not help you. At the very least you now have a tool that allows you to cut things without damaging nearby metal. That alone opens up vistas of case modding or other work in the future you would never imagine unless you have a certain tool. Trust me, there will come a time when you will look at an annoying situation and it will dawn on you that you can fix it.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Kevin
> 
> I'm sorry cutting out those pillars did not help you. At the very least you now have a tool that allows you to cut things without damaging nearby metal. That alone opens up vistas of case modding or other work in the future you would never imagine unless you have a certain tool. Trust me, there will come a time when you will look at an annoying situation and it will dawn on you that you can fix it.


No problem, no need to be sorry ehume, you did help a lot of people here including me







Yeah, I'm thinking about the future where I can "possibly" use this tool.


----------



## ivanlabrie

I'm debating between the Antec p180 mini and the lian li pc-a04...
Which would you guys reccomend between those two?
I'll be using a noctua nh-c14 top down cooler and a 7870 that blows part of the warm air inside the case.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> I'm debating between the Antec p180 mini and the lian li pc-a04...
> Which would you guys reccomend between those two?
> I'll be using a noctua nh-c14 top down cooler and a 7870 that blows part of the warm air inside the case.


Lian Li, IMO


----------



## 161029

Not sure if you saw the new HAF XM in the news ehume. This thing is a monster.

http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=6821

Good night everybody.


----------



## a pet rock

I would also jump on the Lian-Li.

As for the HAF-XM, it's still one ugly SoB.


----------



## SniperTeamTango

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> I would also jump on the Lian-Li.
> 
> As for the HAF-XM, it's still one ugly SoB.


Wow. Out of all the HAF cases the X and XM are the only ones I'd buy lol.


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SniperTeamTango*
> 
> Wow. Out of all the HAF cases the X and XM are the only ones I'd buy lol.


Well, sure they've got all the features of a good case. Except for that butter face. I couldn't buy any of them, there's just too much rice.


----------



## SniperTeamTango

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *SniperTeamTango*
> 
> Wow. Out of all the HAF cases the X and XM are the only ones I'd buy lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, sure they've got all the features of a good case. Except for that butter face. I couldn't buy any of them, there's just too much rice.
Click to expand...

Ah there's the difference. I like my rigs to look ricey. (Check the worklog if ya think I'm kidding







23 case fans)


----------



## ivanlabrie

Thanks guys! I guess I'll spend extra on the pc-a04 then.
That was my first choice actually, after finding out the nzxt vulcan's where nowhere to be seen locally.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SniperTeamTango*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *SniperTeamTango*
> 
> Wow. Out of all the HAF cases the X and XM are the only ones I'd buy lol.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, sure they've got all the features of a good case. Except for that butter face. I couldn't buy any of them, there's just too much rice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ah there's the difference. I like my rigs to look ricey. (Check the worklog if ya think I'm kidding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 23 case fans)
Click to expand...

I think the new Haf-XM is an excellent mid tower choice if you like it's look and it has some features too.
It has an excellent stock cooling:

http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/Cooler_Master_HAF_XM/4.html

But I'm sure we can even do some fan modding in order to increase the airflow.

It's about the same size as the Graphite 600T (small from the outside but big inside) and yet costs less and it is more suitable for a positive pressure case with it's three 200mm fans since you can choose the front top intake with the other one blocked.









I'll keep this choice as my second option (in case I'll find too big the Aerocool Xpredator)


----------



## ivanlabrie

This looks awesome for a matx rig!

What do you guys think?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> This looks awesome for a matx rig!
> 
> What do you guys think?


Too cramped IMO.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Yeah, thought so, after inspecting some more.
I liked the idea...perhaps for water.








I'll stick with Lian Li, and their pc-a04 for now.


----------



## solsamurai

Lol, gotta love the trash can chassis.


----------



## SniperTeamTango

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Lol, gotta love the trash can chassis.


I was thinkin mailbox myself.


----------



## a pet rock

The FT03 is actually very popular in SFF land. They also have an FT03-mini out in asia now that uses SG05 guts upright and wrapped in aluminum. They really are beautiful cases.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Perhaps you can mod it into a fire hydrant look


----------



## SniperTeamTango

I was looking at an honest to god miniITX case today, first thought was "1x120mm, H80, chip with integrated graphics, micro lan rig, done."

My N52 has a bigger desk print than this lil case I was laughin so hard.


----------



## a pet rock

There's even smaller than that. Wesena makes a case that's basically the size of an optical drive.

http://www.wesena.co.uk/product.php/5/2/itx2


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> There's even smaller than that. Wesena makes a case that's basically the size of an optical drive.
> http://www.wesena.co.uk/product.php/5/2/itx2


ikem recently used this case. Check it out *here*.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Wow! So much Llano coolness








Gotta love how this thread turned into a beastly sff stuff one lol

Back on topic, I'm considering using el cheapo fans -those coolermaster 4xbox ones- as case fans lol
Are they any good? -at least for front intakes-


----------



## solsamurai

Can you link to the product page on newegg or something? Not sure which fans you mean.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Can you link to the product page on newegg or something? Not sure which fans you mean.


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103052

Those...but the led version. Really disturbingly bright leds btw lol


----------



## solsamurai

Are you looking for cooling performance or silence? I've never used CM fans so can't comment there. I'd say go for some Yates instead. Cheap and have a great reputation.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Yeah, I'm getting some free fans this Friday, with my motherboard lol
Those CM fans are readily available here -Argentina-.
I'll probably get some YLs from the US though, or if I can some bitfenix fans. -a guy I know had a couple of those, I just have to convince him to sell them to me







-

I'll go for a balance between noise/performance...I've built a custom fan controller already, for up to 4 fans.


----------



## solsamurai

I really like the Bitfenix Spectre Pro fans, They come with anti vibration mounts and 7v adapters.







I would have got a 140mm for the top intake if that Phanteks hadn't peaked my curiosity.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> I really like the Bitfenix Spectre Pro fans, They come with anti vibration mounts and 7v adapters.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would have got a 140mm for the top intake if that Phanteks hadn't peaked my curiosity.


Exactly those!
This guy's got two of the 120's, and I intend to buy them


----------



## nimitz87

wanted to give an update

I have a HAF 922 setup 100% intake

added 2 R4 120mm intakes for the top

2 R4 side panel 120mm intakes

removed the rear 120mm exhaust

have a push/pull 212+ with R4's

stock front 200mm intake

850w ocz PSU, 6870 + GTX 460

i5 2500k @ 4.5ghz 1.305 vcore MAX temps @ load in prime95 62* idles around 25-27*

can't ask for more then that right?

thing is damn near silent unless @ 100% load, my HDD is louder then all the fans.

I want to test blocking off the rear top intake but I don't think it matters with these kind of temps, could add a 5.25" bay fan as well...

I'm VERY happy, thanks ehume for this awesome thread.


----------



## nimitz87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103052
> Those...but the led version. Really disturbingly bright leds btw lol


these are the exact fans I have in my 922, work just fine and aren't noisy at all


----------



## tmunn

A wooden cigar box case would be awesome. Sadly, it'd only have the power of a nettop.


----------



## ivanlabrie

I have one of those wooden cases lol
My grandpa used to be a tobacconist








I inherited tons of habanos, pipes, and stuff, most of which I sold eventually, or gifted to friends, when he passed away. I smoked some in his honour too...









I could use some Llano or Trinity chip and make your dream rig lol


----------



## ohhgourami

Update:

I took out my rear case fan (SS-800) and my cpu temps went up 1-2C at idle and ~3C at max load. Very slight drop in noise level, but worth the negligible rise in temps. Hot air leaves my case a bit less efficiently now as the TY-140 has more of a cone shaped air profile.

Recently got a GTX 670 Windforce which spews hot air all over my case instead of pushing it out the back so I'm debating whether I should use the SS-800 as a rear fan where the PCI covers would go. Although everything seems perfectly fine the way it is now since my GPU doesn't go past 70C even though fan only spin up to 50% at that load.


----------



## chinesethunda

remove your pci slot covers, and it would help if you removed the rear grill from your case


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> remove your pci slot covers, and it would help if you removed the rear grill from your case


+1. Especially with that new GPU.


----------



## ohhgourami

Slot covers have always been removed. Triple fan gpu just spills lots of hot air. Luckily it does come out quite quickly.


----------



## solsamurai

Then definitely remove the rear grill. It will make all the difference and you'll get that 2-3c back. You don't realize how much air is being trapped by the grill until it's gone.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Then definitely remove the rear grill. It will make all the difference and you'll get that 2-3c back. You don't realize how much air is being trapped by the grill until it's gone.


Re-read my post. I never had the covers on. I'll never get those 2-3C back which means my highest CPU temp will be 64C with prime95 after 12 hours. That still keeps me as having one of the coolest 2500k setups for my OC!









I was thinking of keeping my gpu cooler by maybe pulling the hot air faster so it doesn't have to increase fan speeds which means more noise during gaming. But that probably isn't the best way to go though as directly cooling would be a better solution. I'll probably leave my setup as it is.


----------



## solsamurai

I know your PCI slot covers are gone.







Your other post doesn't mention if your rear fan mesh/grill has been removed. I can't remember if you did that already. That is my main suggestion to help the air flow out the back more efficiently.







If you're happy with your temps as-is then I wouldn't change anything. I could probably shave off a couple more degrees in my system but don't see the need as current temps are good enough, lol.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> I know your PCI slot covers are gone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your other post doesn't mention if your rear fan mesh/grill has been removed. I can't remember if you did that already. That is my main suggestion to help the air flow out the back more efficiently.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you're happy with your temps as-is then I wouldn't change anything. I could probably shave off a couple more degrees in my system but don't see the need as current temps are good enough, lol.


Oh haha I misread. Yup case only came with a finger guard which saved me a lot of trouble from cutting with a nibbler. Took those off too. Looks like I'm done fiddling with my rig.


----------



## solsamurai

Feels good, right? It's nice to get to a point where you can finally enjoy your system without thinking about temps or airflow in the back of your head constantly, lol.


----------



## ohhgourami

Well just when I thought wouldn't touch my rig, I DID. Procrastinating from getting hw done, I did some cable management and cleaning.

My end result: 

Looks a lot better than before actually and I have easier surfaces to clean when dust collects (not much dust).


----------



## Katcilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Well just when I thought wouldn't touch my rig, I DID. Procrastinating from getting hw done, I did some cable management and cleaning.
> My end result: http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/896266/width/600/height/450/flags/
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks a lot better than before actually and I have easier surfaces to clean when dust collects (not much dust).


Looks good, your cable management is nice and clean, well done!
Does your case have room for fans to be mounted in front of your HDD bays? If so it looks like they'd be blocking a lot of airflow. I'd suggest removing them, mounting your SSDs somewhere else, like in your 5.25" bays, and adding fans in the front if there aren't any there already.

Here's my airflow:

So, how did I do? How does the case itself rate?
Also, Would I get better airflow if I flipped the fan on the CPU cooler to blow away from the motherboard?
I'm planning on moving the rear exhaust fan to just in front of the GPUs, but other than that... anything I can do to improve?


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katcilla*
> 
> Here's my airflow:
> So, how did I do? How does the case itself rate?
> Also, Would I get better airflow if I flipped the fan on the CPU cooler to blow away from the motherboard?
> I'm planning on moving the rear exhaust fan to just in front of the GPUs, but other than that... anything I can do to improve?


Things to consider:

1. Removing rear exhaust fan. You've already got two fans pushing that direction on the heatsink. That third fan probably isn't doing anything. If you remove it and temps don't change, you at least reduced noise.
2. You might try turning your top fans towards intake. When I did that, my CPU temps dropped 5C and it helped solve some GPU heat issues I had.
3. I have no idea what would work best with the Genesis. It's just a weird setup. I would imagine that pushing the air into the motherboard would be best, but I just think a rotated fan there hurts overall case airflow.
4. I'd wager your PSU fan is actually an intake, but I'd still leave it turned the way it is.
5. I'd also wager your GPU fans are pushing air up into the heatsink. But again, that wouldn't change anything.

I really like how clean the HDD bay is. Lets those front intake fans breathe easy.


----------



## Katcilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> Things to consider:
> 1. Removing rear exhaust fan. You've already got two fans pushing that direction on the heatsink. That third fan probably isn't doing anything. If you remove it and temps don't change, you at least reduced noise.
> 2. You might try turning your top fans towards intake. When I did that, my CPU temps dropped 5C and it helped solve some GPU heat issues I had.
> 3. I have no idea what would work best with the Genesis. It's just a weird setup. I would imagine that pushing the air into the motherboard would be best, but I just think a rotated fan there hurts overall case airflow.
> 4. I'd wager your PSU fan is actually an intake, but I'd still leave it turned the way it is.
> 5. I'd also wager your GPU fans are pushing air up into the heatsink. But again, that wouldn't change anything.
> I really like how clean the HDD bay is. Lets those front intake fans breathe easy.


#1 is definitely something I'm planning to do. I was actually going to do that the second I get home tonight.
#2 is worth a shot, but I honestly don't expect much of a result.
#3, I get your point but I love the look of the fan sitting there, and I couldn't stand to remove it...
#4 the PSU fan is actually an intake, that was my bad.
#5, the fans on the Phantom are actually intake as well, I never realized to be honest. And the fan on my 8600GT doesn't actually WORK but I'm looking into fixing that tonight as well.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Katcilla*
> 
> Looks good, your cable management is nice and clean, well done!
> Does your case have room for fans to be mounted in front of your HDD bays? If so it looks like they'd be blocking a lot of airflow. I'd suggest removing them, mounting your SSDs somewhere else, like in your 5.25" bays, and adding fans in the front if there aren't any there already.


No my case has no room for fans in front of the HDD bays, but that is because that giant block which has a giant slit cutting through my case IS my intake fan. So yes my front intake gets air from both sides of my case. Unique design and thought it was really cool so I got this case. So my HDD bays are actually completely empty to collect dust








My SSDs are actually on a mount above my HDD bays where my 5.25" bays are (bottom is an extra 3.5" bay for my SSDs).

Looks like *a pet rock* got to your questions before me.

I think this is the best I can do for a case that didn't have much cable management in mind.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Well just when I thought wouldn't touch my rig, I DID. Procrastinating from getting hw done, I did some cable management and cleaning.
> My end result:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks a lot better than before actually and I have easier surfaces to clean when dust collects (not much dust).


That looks great! Nice job!


----------



## tmunn

What do you guys think about the Antec P280? http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Antec/P280/1.html

$90 shipped at the egg right now

Is there anything better at that price point?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tmunn*
> 
> What do you guys think about the Antec P280? http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Antec/P280/1.html
> 
> $90 shipped at the egg right now
> 
> Is there anything better at that price point?


Decent . . . for the price. A nice point is the psu's dust filter pulling out the side, not the back. You will need to filter the top intake fans. At least Antec did not follow their despicable practice of having only a rear top fan position. Consider using a TY-140 140mm PWM fan with 120mm screw holes in the top front position, and putting it on the same PWM harness as your cpu heatsink fans.

Don't expect much airflow through your HD cages.

Where are you seeing it for $90US?


----------



## tmunn

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129179

$10 promo code and $20 rebate.


----------



## Tyreman

I use the P280
bought those gears 120mm filters and put on the top
installed 120mm noctuas drawing air in top
back top fan(closest to case rear) on highest load resistor, so it doesn't interfere with flow, front top fan full bore
NH-D14 exhausting out the rear blow hole
its your business but you'd be best to open up the rear blow hole
I installed a wire grille externally to a noctua PWM 120mm there blowing out
using stock supplied fans on NH-D14 and stock orientation now
Then on front of case behind filter grille using 120mm non pwm Noctuas to bring in air no resisters full input


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tmunn*
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129179
> $10 promo code and $20 rebate.


Be careful with mail-in rebates. You don't always get them. Out of the last 5 I sent in I got 3 back.


----------



## tmunn

Yeah, I know. Even though I have never failed to get one out of dozens of submissions, I don't count it as money in my pocket until it's redeemed. So anyway, any better cases for $110 shipped? I prefer not the HAF type variety, but something more low key.


----------



## ohhgourami

I was reading around an someone said the Mac Pro case is supposed to be really nice. Can anyone confirm this? What makes it so nice exactly? And is it really as quiet as some people say? From my experience, quietness is EXTREMELY subjective. Someone's "silence" is considered very audible to another.


----------



## tmunn

I don't have any first hand experience using Mac cases, but I'd imagine it's kind of like a trophy having a diy-build in one of those things.

Should I just say screw it and get a Obsidian 550D?


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tmunn*
> 
> I don't have any first hand experience using Mac cases, but I'd imagine it's kind of like a trophy having a diy-build in one of those things.
> Should I just say screw it and get a Obsidian 550D?


I don't think the cooling is that good for that case. There are no top vents for fans and the HDD bays block the 2 front intake fans. Someone asked me this same question a couple days ago and I ended up recommending the Silverstone SST-TJ-04. A bit more expensive but it seems pretty good in terms of airflow. In hindsight, probably would have gotten one myself if I wasn't so adamant in getting a full tower.


----------



## airdeano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> I don't think the cooling is that good for that case. There are no top vents for fans.....


this is false.. the 550D does have two 120/140mm fan support in the roof. this
was based on the 400/500r chassis which are very good air cases. granted the
front panel blocks direct air-flow.. but it has a very good potiential for a air-cooled
server case.

airdeano


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *airdeano*
> 
> this is false.. the 550D does have two 120/140mm fan support in the roof. this
> was based on the 400/500r chassis which are very good air cases. granted the
> front panel blocks direct air-flow.. but it has a very good potiential for a air-cooled
> server case.
> airdeano


Thanks for the clarification. I noticed obvious spots which seemed like remnants of vents, but didn't see mounts for fan on the specs.

Either way, it would be nice if there was better air flow for front fans.


----------



## airdeano

interesting read for the last couple of DAYS! a part from the information and all the
gimme what you think commentary (some do not know why they are doing this)
a very good concept of an idea. i was always a fiend of balance pressure and
reading this i am not so sure it is a balance that is needed. the point (i get from
all this) is allowing the case to get the most ambient (cooler) air available and
suppling the components with refreshing air change to exchange the heat from
component and transfer to outside of case.
depending on case (all have different fans and equipment and flow pathes) the
increased amount of air in the case and allow natural exhaust happen without
incurring more incurred decibel sound.
thank you for the diagrams, fan choices, schematics and tool lists. hopefully a
sticky is in the future. i will definantly consider this in my next Arc Midi build.
i kinda related this to a carbureted engine and the functionality. for forced induction
a differnt thought is needed as well as compnents like liquid cooling. i noted a couple
of WC members leaked into the thread, but they didn't seem too "motivated" for a
solution.

airdeano


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *airdeano*
> 
> interesting read for the last couple of DAYS! a part from the information and all the
> gimme what you think commentary (some do not know why they are doing this)
> a very good concept of an idea. i was always a fiend of balance pressure and
> reading this i am not so sure it is a balance that is needed. the point (i get from
> all this) is allowing the case to get the most ambient (cooler) air available and
> suppling the components with refreshing air change to exchange the heat from
> component and transfer to outside of case.
> depending on case (all have different fans and equipment and flow pathes) the
> increased amount of air in the case and allow natural exhaust happen without
> incurring more incurred decibel sound.
> thank you for the diagrams, fan choices, schematics and tool lists. hopefully a
> sticky is in the future. i will definantly consider this in my next Arc Midi build.
> i kinda related this to a carbureted engine and the functionality. for forced induction
> a differnt thought is needed as well as compnents like liquid cooling. i noted a couple
> of WC members leaked into the thread, but they didn't seem too "motivated" for a
> solution.
> 
> airdeano


You have nailed it, I think. Air goes where you push it.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> You have nailed it, I think. Air goes where you push *& guide* it.


Fixed

Air also follows the path of least resistance... toward exhaust vents and the like... and like to go in a straight line. Sometimes a slight obstruction will create major turbulence. Example is wire fence in snow storm will cause major drifting of snow.
http://www.facebook.com/notes/us-national-weather-service-caribou-me/snow-drift-management-a-look-at-the-dynamics-of-snow-drifting-and-what-can-be-do/159141197530331?comment_id=476197&offset=0&total_comments=2


----------



## Joe17150

Thanks for the guide.This will help me get my Antec 900 working better.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> You have nailed it, I think. Air goes where you push *& guide* it.
> 
> 
> 
> Fixed
> 
> Air also follows the path of least resistance... toward exhaust vents and the like... and like to go in a straight line. Sometimes a slight obstruction will create major turbulence. Example is wire fence in snow storm will cause major drifting of snow.
> http://www.facebook.com/notes/us-national-weather-service-caribou-me/snow-drift-management-a-look-at-the-dynamics-of-snow-drifting-and-what-can-be-do/159141197530331?comment_id=476197&offset=0&total_comments=2
Click to expand...

Now you know why I like to remove that rear grill.

As for your "& guide it" emendation, I agree. It's why I sometimes suggest partitions and other guides.


----------



## airdeano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> You have nailed it, I think. Air goes where you push it.


air IN - air OUT

nuttin hard about that, just how ya gunna do it.. properly!

airdeano


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *airdeano*
> 
> air IN - air OUT
> nuttin hard about that, just *how ya gunna do it properly*!
> airdeano


That's the trick. Did airflow R & D for performance engines... intake / exhaust & combustion chamber airflow and combustion chamber combustion/burn pattern. Often found very miner change would make major differences.. Accidentally gouged the inside of radius and got more flow... The gouge created turbulence which caused air to be drawn around radius and decreasing pressure on outside of radius.. Thus more air through with less resistance. We were increasing stock Ford Pinto power by 50% with no other changes. Stock carb, intake manifold, head, valve size, exhaust manifold. All we did was improve the airflow efficiency.

Sorry for the ramble.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Now you know why I like to remove that rear grill.


Have done it myself








Same for front / side grills...
Spacing fans 5-10mm off can sometimes do amazing things too


----------



## airdeano

yeah, now they call the gouge a "vortex generator" that breaks the surface tension
of the air channel so instead of sliding along on a surface, if it hovers above it and
the "drag" isn't effecting the flow-path. SF-1020 12 years..

airdeano


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *airdeano*
> 
> yeah, now they call the gouge a "vortex generator" that breaks the surface tension
> of the air channel so instead of sliding along on a surface, if it hovers above it and
> the "drag" isn't effecting the flow-path. SF-1020 12 years..
> airdeano


wonder if setting up a "vortex generator" above front intake flow at back of HDD rack would entice more air to turn up in front of HSF intake?









Changed from low profile HD 6570 GDDR5 512MB reference model (70mm high) w/ Scythe Setsugen cooler (180x139mm face) to Gigabyte HD 5770 Silent Cell (112mm high card and 275x170mm face). As card only clears HSF intake by 34mm I was a little worried about intake restriction with HD 5770, but no difference.


----------



## airdeano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> wonder if setting up a "vortex generator" above front intake flow at back of HDD rack would entice more air to turn up in front of HSF intake?


if you did, id have to have a high pressure rating and i'd be better with a 10mm spacer in front to
space the fan orifice off the surface. what i've noticed if the fan "power" or the column of air from
the fan is only powerful for about 150mm-180mm so as the air exits the fan with muscle, 180mm
that same stream is a feather of pressure. now mounting to the HDD rack and 10mm spacer yeah
it should hit the HSF with some punch left over.

airdeano

is there been a golden ratio of fan intake volume to case volume? i just answered a case fan question
and while typing, i thought there should be a rule or ratio for air intake volume value compared to case
volume.

case in point:
Corsair Carbide 300R case is 19.1 x 8.3 x 17.7 = 2806in³ or 234ft³
stock 140mm intake fans are @ 12v able to produce 69cfm each = 138cfm (way under capacity)
meaning it takes 102sec to just fill your case up with new air.
install ed aftermarket noctua fans are @ 12v are 59cfm (S12B) and 55cfm (F12) = 114cfm (way under capacity)
meaning it takes 123sec to pull all of the air of of the case.

airdeano


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *airdeano*
> 
> if you did, id have to have a high pressure rating and i'd be better with a 10mm spacer in front to
> space the fan orifice off the surface. what i've noticed if the fan "power" or the column of air from
> the fan is only powerful for about 150mm-180mm so as the air exits the fan with muscle, 180mm
> that same stream is a feather of pressure. now mounting to the HDD rack and 10mm spacer yeah
> it should hit the HSF with some punch left over.
> airdeano
> is there been a golden ratio of fan intake volume to case volume? i just answered a case fan question
> and while typing, i thought there should be a rule or ratio for air intake volume value compared to case
> volume.
> case in point:
> Corsair Carbide 300R case is 19.1 x 8.3 x 17.7 = 2806in³ or 234ft³
> stock 140mm intake fans are @ 12v able to produce 69cfm each = 138cfm (way under capacity)
> meaning it takes 102sec to just fill your case up with new air.
> install ed aftermarket noctua fans are @ 12v are 59cfm (S12B) and 55cfm (F12) = 114cfm (way under capacity)
> meaning it takes 123sec to pull all of the air of of the case.
> airdeano


You raise some good points there.
How would you manage this issue without going nuts with fan rpm and thus noise?
I think case fans in general (axial type) are no good for air pressure, and when faced with minimal resistance fail to push air with force through it.
Plus the air comes out of the fan blades spinning (turbulent airflow) and doesn't travel in a straight line, so it aggravates this particular issue.

On a side-note, I added a 5.25" bay front intake and it lowered 10c off my cpu temps.
Too lazy to take pics, but my setup is as follows:



No side panel nor top fans...Haven't removed the rear grill yet, but will do so soon.
I'm not sure if removing the rear exhaust is a good idea with my top down flow cooler. (Noctua nh-c14)
Temps right now are good, folding for hours at 4.5ghz nets me a max 59c temp in the hottest core.


----------



## DavePDX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *airdeano*
> 
> case in point:
> Corsair Carbide 300R case is 19.1 x 8.3 x 17.7 = 2806in³ or 234ft³


I'm really enjoying reading this thread but I am going to pick a nit regarding the math here (unless I am missing something).

1 cubic foot = 12 inches x 12 inches x 12 inches = 1728 cubic inches.

The case (I'm assuming your calculation for the volume of the case is correct) is 2806 cubic inches or 1.623 cubic feet. My wife wouldn't be happy with a computer case that was 234 cubic feet (say 6.1 feet x 6.1 feet x 6.1 feet) in size in her office.


----------



## Tyreman

Well formulas and all that stuff aside being an hvac mechanic and with lots of do dads to play with my Antec P280 gives the same temps as a Cooler Master Half 922 and all its ventilation.
The Cooler Master has large fans and many extra spots for them which I entertained but the fact remains that the Antec P280 with a rear blow hole mod seems to do just as good here
Sure I have to have fans on the front and behind hard drives but no matter


----------



## ivanlabrie

I have to try the mid case fan thing, I could always remove the rear grill and rear exhaust fan, and place it in front of the hdd rack.


----------



## airdeano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> On a side-note, I added a 5.25" bay front intake and it lowered 10c off my cpu temps.
> Too lazy to take pics, but my setup is as follows:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No side panel nor top fans...Haven't removed the rear grill yet, but will do so soon.
> I'm not sure if removing the rear exhaust is a good idea with my top down flow cooler. (Noctua nh-c14)
> Temps right now are good, folding for hours at 4.5ghz nets me a max 59c temp in the hottest core.


removal of the rear exhaust grid and fan does two things. removes restriction of exiting air and reduces
noise. the c14 is fine with the 120 bay fan. granted, if you have a hot GPU, the side panel (if accessable)
would be a plus factor.

airdeano


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *airdeano*
> 
> removal of the rear exhaust grid and fan does two things. removes restriction of exiting air and reduces
> noise. the c14 is fine with the 120 bay fan. granted, if you have a hot GPU, the side panel (if accessable)
> would be a plus factor.
> airdeano


No gpu yet, I will be getting a gtx670 in a couple of months...
I'll remove the grill and place the fan as a top intake, or a mid case fan.
I'll see what gives better cpu temps/noise levels.
Thanks for the insight.


----------



## airdeano

come back with results of findings..

airdeano


----------



## amwayorlando

I have a C14 as well. I find it cooler for the CPU to use the top case fan as exhaust than intake. I've got two PWM version of the Gentle Typhoon A-15 which spins at 1850 RPM. I use them as top and rear exhaust. Keep them at low noise mode when the system is not under heavy load. I have a relatively negative case air pressure with only one intake fan at the lower front of my CM KN101 case.

However, due to my 2600K requires 1.48-49 vcore in offset mode for a 4.8 Ghz overclock, my CPU temp still gets over 85 C after 5 mins of prime 95. But with normal load, the system runs cool enough without stability issues. The CPU idles at 35 C with the room temp at 27 C. And when in games and normal load, CPU temp stays under 75 C most of the time.

Plus, I find the system runs cooler with the bottom fan removed from the C14, as it provides more clearance for cool air to flow from the bottom of the case towards the top exhaust fan.


----------



## a pet rock

I suppose that rotated fan on the C14 would mess with the whole wind tunnel effect. You might try putting an intake fan into your 5.25" drive bay. That really helped me out when I had a mid-tower.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> I suppose that rotated fan on the C14 would mess with the whole wind tunnel effect. You might try putting an intake fan into your 5.25" drive bay. That really helped me out when I had a mid-tower.


Second that, best results I got with my 2600k and C-14 inside a cm 690 II was with two front intakes (one of them being a 5.25" 120mm fan pressure mounted with foam and pci slot covers removed, have yet to remove the rear grill, -and I keep the exhaust fan there too-)
I can do 4.7 @ 1.36 though, folding 100% load at 75c -fans set to lowest speed possible, quiet and cool!- (24 ambient)

EDIT: I use both fans on the C-14 and keep the cpu @ 4.5ghz for 24/7 folding, that way I stay at 57-61c, much better for my peace of mind.


----------



## amwayorlando

Thanks for the advice guys. I've added a front intake fan in the 5.25" area and have been able to do folding 100% on the CPU at max temp of 71 C. That's like 4 C drop compared without the front intake fan installed. (I had the bottom HDD intake fan installed always before.)

Unluckily, I got a crappy 2600K unit which requires 1.4 Vcore to be stable at 4.6 Ghz. and 1.49 vcore to be stable at 4.8 Ghz. So i've decided to stay with the lower and cooler 4.6 Ghz configuration.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amwayorlando*
> 
> Thanks for the advice guys. I've added a front intake fan in the 5.25" area and have been able to do folding 100% on the CPU at max temp of 71 C. That's like 4 C drop compared without the front intake fan installed. (I had the bottom HDD intake fan installed always before.)
> Unluckily, I got a crappy 2600K unit which requires 1.4 Vcore to be stable at 4.6 Ghz. and 1.49 vcore to be stable at 4.8 Ghz. So i've decided to stay with the lower and cooler 4.6 Ghz configuration.


Well, what's your board and cooler?
Mine does 1.36v at 4.5ghz, folding 24/7 stable at 61c max. (I use a nh-c14, two front intakes, one rear exhaust, and a z68ma-d2h-b3 board).
Perhaps you can tweak your oc to further reduce vcore and temps, folding should be under 70c to be comfortable. At least for me...


----------



## SuperDeo

I almost came close









that video is cool i want a smoke thing now


----------



## airdeano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuperDeo*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/gallery/image/view/album/679724/id/913147/sort/display_order
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


uhh, your arrows are confused. front right-side, you have an exhaust on the bottom and some
intake (assume its a 5.25" bay fan) towards the top. the exhaust will be drawn to the intake for
sub-ambient air temp. i assume the green arrow on lower pointing up is a side panel fan? good
for GPU, unless the exhaust thing on right kills the flow-path... how much room between CPU
cooler stack and rear case fan? you can remove the rear case fan, trim the grill mesh from that
area and leave it vacant to reduce restriction (mesh) and noise (fan) or make rear fan pull on cooler stack.
last thing is the PSU fan evacuating the stack is good, but is confuses the air-flow whether
to go back or up and air is dam lazy.. tell it one thing and more than likely itll do it, anything else just confuses it to no end. in my opinion.

airdeano


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *airdeano*
> 
> uhh, your arrows are confused. front right-side, you have an exhaust on the bottom and some
> intake (assume its a 5.25" bay fan) towards the top. the exhaust will be drawn to the intake for
> sub-ambient air temp. i assume the green arrow on lower pointing up is a side panel fan? good
> for GPU, unless the exhaust thing on right kills the flow-path... how much room between CPU
> cooler stack and rear case fan? you can remove the rear case fan, trim the grill mesh from that
> area and leave it vacant to reduce restriction (mesh) and noise (fan) or make rear fan pull on cooler stack.
> last thing is the PSU fan evacuating the stack is good, but is confuses the air-flow whether
> to go back or up and air is dam lazy.. tell it one thing and more than likely itll do it, anything else just confuses it to no end. in my opinion.
> airdeano


Seems like he has two PSUs (bottom right corner). His arrow colors are a bit confusing left of the HSF, but understandable. Overall a straightforward diagram.

I will agree that he should mount his rear fan on his heatsink instead and cut out the rear mesh.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Seems like he has two PSUs (bottom right corner). His arrow colors are a bit confusing left of the HSF, but understandable. Overall a straightforward diagram.
> *I will agree that he should mount his rear fan on his heatsink instead and cut out the rear mesh.*


+1.


----------



## SuperDeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *airdeano*
> 
> uhh, your arrows are confused. front right-side, you have an exhaust on the bottom and some
> intake (assume its a 5.25" bay fan) towards the top. the exhaust will be drawn to the intake for
> sub-ambient air temp. i assume the green arrow on lower pointing up is a side panel fan? good
> for GPU, unless the exhaust thing on right kills the flow-path... how much room between CPU
> cooler stack and rear case fan? you can remove the rear case fan, trim the grill mesh from that
> area and leave it vacant to reduce restriction (mesh) and noise (fan) or make rear fan pull on cooler stack.
> last thing is the PSU fan evacuating the stack is good, but is confuses the air-flow whether
> to go back or up and air is dam lazy.. tell it one thing and more than likely itll do it, anything else just confuses it to no end. in my opinion.
> airdeano


you got everything right on point. but i don't understand so my PC is not moving air ? i'm new to computers i just recently opened my PC to install that cooler and it took me 5 try's







i bet it still wrong XD i only opened up my PC about 3 times since 2008

looks like 2 more fans can fit in there by the cooler









when i installed the heat sink i cut lots of things in the PC XD what would you recommend for good air flow ?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Seems like he has two PSUs (bottom right corner). His arrow colors are a bit confusing left of the HSF, but understandable. Overall a straightforward diagram.
> I will agree that he should mount his rear fan on his heatsink instead and cut out the rear mesh.


correct


----------



## ohhgourami

No no, your airflow is fine. If your GPU is a reference card, the side panel fan as intake is correct. I would probably leave what you have as is unless you decide to cut out the rear mesh. In that case, I would mount the rear fan onto the heatsink as a pull fan.

If your GPU is not a reference card, consider switching the side panel fan to exhaust and removing the PCI slot covers.


----------



## airdeano

yeah, but there is not frontal access from air to come in..there is a green arrow, but the new pic shows
drives.. lots of drives. no fan i see in there. is the front PSU necessary? that'd be a fine intake port to allow
the lower half air, and have the air exit the pci slots on its own force. the upper fan supplies the CPU.
and disable the rear fan and retest to see if it functioning best for you.

airdeano


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *airdeano*
> 
> yeah, but there is not frontal access from air to come in..there is a green arrow, but the new pic shows
> drives.. lots of drives. no fan i see in there. is the front PSU necessary? that'd be a fine intake port to allow
> the lower half air, and have the air exit the pci slots on its own force. the upper fan supplies the CPU.
> and disable the rear fan and retest to see if it functioning best for you.
> airdeano


It's fine if he has no frontal air, he still has air coming from the top; his case gives him limited options. But what he can do is some cable management so no cables are blocking airflow from that top fan.

He might not need air from that lower PSU position. If he has a reference card, that side fan would be more than enough. Plus reference cards blow air directly out that small vent out of the case - no need to remove slot covers!

Disabling the rear fan might not be enough to test, he should completely remove it as the fan will restrict a lot of air.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuperDeo*
> 
> you got everything right on point. but i don't understand so my PC is not moving air ? i'm new to computers i just recently opened my PC to install that cooler and it took me 5 try's
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i bet it still wrong XD i only opened up my PC about 3 times since 2008
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> looks like 2 more fans can fit in there by the cooler
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> when i installed the heat sink i cut lots of things in the PC XD what would you recommend for good air flow ?


I still don't get the purpose of the second, bottom ps. To power a few fans only? Your CX500 should be enough for your system.
Because with the front intake fan your airflow will definitely improve.
And I'm too recommending you to cut the rear grill and place the rear fan on the cpu cooler in push & pull.


----------



## Celoth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> I still don't get the purpose of the second, bottom ps. To power a few fans only? Your CX500 should be enough for your system.
> Because with the front intake fan your airflow will definitely improve.
> And I'm too recommending you to cut the rear grill and place the rear fan on the cpu cooler in push & pull.


Yeah I was wondering about that as well. Seems completely unnecessary and detrimental to the PC. Servers come with redundant PSUs, but that's not what this PC is.









Anyway, I also suggest cutting away the back grill SuperDeo, it really makes a big difference. You don't need a push-pull config on the heatsink either, if temps turn out fine with just the one fan. I'm fine with just one fan and no rear-grill in my own setup (in signature).

Just remember to take everything out before cutting, as metal dust or splinters is a big no-no for electronics, and wipe the case clean after. And yeah, get rid of that second PSU and install a front intake instead.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuperDeo*
> 
> I almost came close
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that video is cool i want a smoke thing now


"FusterCluck" is first word that comes to mind.... no! Arlo Guthrie's description of blind justice which 8x10 pictures with lots of arrows...









Sorry, the devil made me say it.







You are learning and we all make fusterclucks from time to time... In fact there are many far far worse then yours.

* turn off top fan.
* take out front PSU & replace with intake
* install 2nd fan on CPU for push/pull
* cut fan hole in bottom and install intake (1 or even 2).. raise case so you have 35mm clearance for bottom intake
* cut out back vent to remove restriction of CPU cooler hot air
* take out PCI back covers for easy exhaust air movement from GPU
* move bottom PCI card above GPU so bottom intake below GPU blows directly on GPU

In a all new build all fans would be PWM using Akasa or Gelid PWM splitters that use motherboard to control PWM signal to all fans with rpm signal from 1 CPU fan and PSU to supply power to fans. My system has 7 fans this way and one very quiet intake fan cooling HDDs... (have one Seagate that need lots of air to stay below 40c when others happily run 30c.. will be replaced when prices get a little lower)


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> "FusterCluck" is first word that comes to mind.... no! Arlo Guthrie's description of blind justice which 8x10 pictures with lots of arrows...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, the devil made me say it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are learning and we all make fusterclucks from time to time... In fact there are many far far worse then yours.
> 
> * turn off top fan.
> * take out front PSU & replace with intake
> * install 2nd fan on CPU for push/pull
> * cut fan hole in bottom and install intake (1 or even 2).. *raise case so you have 35mm clearance for bottom intake*
> * cut out back vent to remove restriction of CPU cooler hot air
> * take out PCI back covers for easy exhaust air movement from GPU
> * move bottom PCI card above GPU so bottom intake below GPU blows directly on GPU
> 
> In a all new build all fans would be PWM using Akasa or Gelid PWM splitters that use motherboard to control PWM signal to all fans with rpm signal from 1 CPU fan and PSU to supply power to fans. My system has 7 fans this way and one very quiet intake fan cooling HDDs... (have one Seagate that need lots of air to stay below 40c when others happily run 30c.. will be replaced when prices get a little lower)


Complete answer.









As for the bottom clearance I took it for granted.
Checked mine and it was about 20mm only so I added feet (modding) and now there are 40+mm clearance.








And because of the feet I added (somehow softy) my bottom fan (Servo GT AP-15) isn't noisy anymore.








+1 Rep


----------



## airdeano

super-mega ditto!

airdeano


----------



## SuperDeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> No no, your airflow is fine. If your GPU is a reference card, the side panel fan as intake is correct. I would probably leave what you have as is unless you decide to cut out the rear mesh. In that case, I would mount the rear fan onto the heatsink as a pull fan.
> If your GPU is not a reference card, consider switching the side panel fan to exhaust and removing the PCI slot covers.


i will find out if i have a reference card and thanks for the idea rep+
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> I still don't get the purpose of the second, bottom ps. To power a few fans only? Your CX500 should be enough for your system.
> Because with the front intake fan your airflow will definitely improve.
> And I'm too recommending you to cut the rear grill and place the rear fan on the cpu cooler in push & pull.


2 agree to the same so i will do it







rep+ and the second PSU is for turning off all the fans i work in the day editing work videos and at night i render the videos and the fans are LOUD (cant sleep) so i just turn them all off and render over night super quite








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Celoth*
> 
> Yeah I was wondering about that as well. Seems completely unnecessary and detrimental to the PC. Servers come with redundant PSUs, but that's not what this PC is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway, I also suggest cutting away the back grill SuperDeo, it really makes a big difference. You don't need a push-pull config on the heatsink either, if temps turn out fine with just the one fan. I'm fine with just one fan and no rear-grill in my own setup (in signature).
> Just remember to take everything out before cutting, as metal dust or splinters is a big no-no for electronics, and wipe the case clean after. And yeah, get rid of that second PSU and install a front intake instead.


i just use the second psu to turn off the fans while i sleep and render. i will consider taking the motherboard out than thanks rep+
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> "FusterCluck" is first word that comes to mind.... no! Arlo Guthrie's description of blind justice which 8x10 pictures with lots of arrows...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, the devil made me say it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are learning and we all make fusterclucks from time to time... In fact there are many far far worse then yours.
> * turn off top fan.
> * take out front PSU & replace with intake
> * install 2nd fan on CPU for push/pull
> * cut fan hole in bottom and install intake (1 or even 2).. raise case so you have 35mm clearance for bottom intake
> * cut out back vent to remove restriction of CPU cooler hot air
> * take out PCI back covers for easy exhaust air movement from GPU
> * move bottom PCI card above GPU so bottom intake below GPU blows directly on GPU
> In a all new build all fans would be PWM using Akasa or Gelid PWM splitters that use motherboard to control PWM signal to all fans with rpm signal from 1 CPU fan and PSU to supply power to fans. My system has 7 fans this way and one very quiet intake fan cooling HDDs... (have one Seagate that need lots of air to stay below 40c when others happily run 30c.. will be replaced when prices get a little lower)

















that's more info than i expected







i wanted to start my own thread for this but everything was answered by the awesome community of OCN Thanks rep+ and what do i do with the top fan ? and are Akasa or Gelid better than the Orange Cougar PWM fans i was going to get a couple of those ? (edit i thought you said fans i just looked up the akasa and gelid there just cables XD i will get some for sure)

i will return with updated pictures of my PC and i took notes down with what everyone suggested Thanks! it will take me couple of days but on my day off i will let everyone know how it worked out.


----------



## ivanlabrie

That's like the bulkiest fan controller ever!
Do you have any basic electronics knowledge and soldering skills?
I built one using a pcb that I "printed" with some acid thingy, a couple of transistors, pots cables and 3 pin connectors.
I could control 4 fans with it.
Basic but useful. (I could even turn them off too)
That would be much sleeker and easier to work with for an air cooled case.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuperDeo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> I still don't get the purpose of the second, bottom ps. To power a few fans only? Your CX500 should be enough for your system.
> Because with the front intake fan your airflow will definitely improve.
> And I'm too recommending you to cut the rear grill and place the rear fan on the cpu cooler in push & pull.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2 agree to the same so i will do it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rep+ and the second PSU is for turning off all the fans i work in the day editing work videos and at night i render the videos and the fans are LOUD (cant sleep) so i just turn them all off and render over night super quite
Click to expand...

For the fans only, I knew it








1. Use the bios to control some fans or
2. Use the speedfan or other software (u can use fan splitters too) or
3. Use a rheobus, at least a cheap one like this


----------



## SuperDeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> For the fans only, I knew it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. Use the bios to control some fans or
> 2. Use the speedfan or other software (u can use fan splitters too) or
> 3. Use a rheobus, at least a cheap one like this


k i will go with fan y cables like this one http://www.frozencpu.com/products/13548/cab-464/Akasa_Flexa_FP5_PWM_5-Way_Splitter_-_Smart_Fan_Cable_AK-CBFA03-45.html?tl=g47c251s1325#blank
i will only get pwm fans so i can just have them all be like the cpu fan

and i changed my mind i cant do all that modding to the case







and i don't really like the case anymore








so i was wondering is this the right place to ask whats the best case for airflow ? i would just like to buy a new one








i'm looking for something with a Handle on top so i can carry it with me i travel a lot ?

what i have found so far
#1 cooler master storm trooper
#2 APEX TX 381
i'm just not sure if my stuff will fit in them and if there any good i have this PC that i will transfer stuff over from http://www.overclock.net/lists/display/view/id/4314513

any help would be greatly appreciated







please


----------



## ivanlabrie

I like my cm 690 II...

You can get a Lian li k90 / k62 / a05b / a04b, Zalman z9, Antec 1200...


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuperDeo*
> 
> k i will go with fan y cables like this one http://www.frozencpu.com/products/13548/cab-464/Akasa_Flexa_FP5_PWM_5-Way_Splitter_-_Smart_Fan_Cable_AK-CBFA03-45.html?tl=g47c251s1325#blank
> i will only get pwm fans so i can just have them all be like the cpu fan
> 
> and i changed my mind i cant do all that modding to the case
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and i don't really like the case anymore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so i was wondering is this the right place to ask whats the best case for airflow ? i would just like to buy a new one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'm looking for something with a Handle on top so i can carry it with me i travel a lot ?
> 
> what i have found so far
> #1 cooler master storm trooper
> #2 APEX TX 381
> i'm just not sure if my stuff will fit in them and if there any good i have this PC that i will transfer stuff over from http://www.overclock.net/lists/display/view/id/4314513
> 
> any help would be greatly appreciated
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> please


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> I like my cm 690 II...
> 
> You can get a Lian li k90 / k62 / a05b / a04b, Zalman z9, Antec 1200...


He was asking of a lan party case with a top handle.
Yes, the Storm Trooper is one hell of a case but I think a bit too much for your system. Consider that it's a full tower, quite heavy and expensive too.
If you search well you'll still be finding around the older Cooler Master Storm Scout, it's not the best for a positive pressure rig but with some mods it will do your case.








I has all red fans and it isn't expensive.


----------



## ivanlabrie

lol sorry for that, was kinda late and I was sleepy.

I'd suggest grabbing either the Storm Scout, or a Lian Li a05b (old version's better), or even the new Corsair military looking cases (they have some sort of handles). You really need the handles? It'll be hard to find a nice compact case with them (aside from the NZXT Vulcan, which won't fit your cooler and is out of stock everywhere.


----------



## arrow0309

Yep, if you can afford it, the Corsair Vengeance C70 High Airflow is probably the best choice from the airflow pp point of view











http://i.imgur.com/LLq0a.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/dzavQ.jpg


----------



## SuperDeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> lol sorry for that, was kinda late and I was sleepy.
> I'd suggest grabbing either the Storm Scout, or a Lian Li a05b (old version's better), or even the new Corsair military looking cases (they have some sort of handles). You really need the handles? It'll be hard to find a nice compact case with them (aside from the NZXT Vulcan, which won't fit your cooler and is out of stock everywhere.


oh yeah i like the NZXT Vulcan very Nice i just looked it up







writing that one down, a handle is not necessary but its a pain caring the case from my apartment to job sites (Stairs, one day my PC will fall down them








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Yep, if you can afford it, the Corsair Vengeance C70 High Airflow is probably the best choice from the airflow pp point of view


that one







i looked it up just now but mostly no pictures show the handles







but k that one will go on my list too and the scout hmm looks kinda like a handle XD
too bad they don't say how the airflow is in them for no heat


----------



## ehume

Current case is the Corsair Vengeance Series CC-9011016-WW

Looks pretty good. If you get one you will need two top intake fans: it is a high-ceiling case. It looks like the IO off-on cluster could be moved to leave the top two slots open. DVD in bottom slot, IO cluster in the next, with a 140mm fan behind the IO cluster taking up the upper three and a half slots.


----------



## solsamurai

I still don't get why cases include filtered intakes everywhere but the top. It's why my 650D needs to be air blasted once a month.


----------



## ivanlabrie

My cm 690 II has top air filters








Not that they are the best, but they sure help.


----------



## solsamurai

Something is better than nothing! I plan on getting *this filter* eventually. Saving for moving and won't have extra cash for awhile.


----------



## airdeano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuperDeo*
> 
> i'm looking for something with a Handle on top so i can carry it with me i travel a lot ?
> what i have found so far
> #1 cooler master storm trooper
> #2 APEX TX 381


look into the Cooler Master Storm Sniper
based on the HAF 922 chassis with a dual 120mm roof ventilation plenty of cable
management, large fan/mesh options and fan options with a carrying handle.

airdeano


----------



## SuperDeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Current case is the Corsair Vengeance Series CC-9011016-WW
> 
> Looks pretty good. If you get one you will need two top intake fans: it is a high-ceiling case. It looks like the IO off-on cluster could be moved to leave the top two slots open. DVD in bottom slot, IO cluster in the next, with a 140mm fan behind the IO cluster taking up the upper three and a half slots.


is that one 2012 new ? and it has better airflow than the other cases mentioned

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *airdeano*
> 
> look into the Cooler Master Storm Sniper
> based on the HAF 922 chassis with a dual 120mm roof ventilation plenty of cable
> management, large fan/mesh options and fan options with a carrying handle.
> airdeano


ok nice i like that one so the thingy on top is the handle they just made it compact ?

based on the help i made a little list of cases

+++ Cooler Master Storm Trooper
++ NZXT Vulcan
+ Cooler Master Storm Scout
+++ Corsair Vengeance C70
+ Cooler Master Storm Sniper
+ APEX TX 381

the ones with more + are cool looking

so based on those cases with handles which one would kinda stay cooler than the rest ?


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuperDeo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Current case is the Corsair Vengeance Series CC-9011016-WW
> 
> Looks pretty good. If you get one you will need two top intake fans: it is a high-ceiling case. It looks like the IO off-on cluster could be moved to leave the top two slots open. DVD in bottom slot, IO cluster in the next, with a 140mm fan behind the IO cluster taking up the upper three and a half slots.
> 
> 
> 
> is that one 2012 new ? and it has better airflow than the other cases mentioned
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *airdeano*
> 
> look into the Cooler Master Storm Sniper
> based on the HAF 922 chassis with a dual 120mm roof ventilation plenty of cable
> management, large fan/mesh options and fan options with a carrying handle.
> airdeano
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> ok nice i like that one so the thingy on top is the handle they just made it compact ?
> 
> based on the help i made a little list of cases
> 
> +++ Cooler Master Storm Trooper
> ++ NZXT Vulcan
> + Cooler Master Storm Scout
> +++ Corsair Vengeance C70
> + Cooler Master Storm Sniper
> + APEX TX 381
> 
> the ones with more + are cool looking
> 
> so based on those cases with handles which one would kinda stay cooler than the rest ?
Click to expand...

Forget the Vulcan, at least if you wanna maintain your actual main board (the Vulcan only supports micro-atx mobo's).
The CM Storm Sniper could be better and cooler than the Scout if you like the handle.
And it has a nice fan controller too.

The Storm Trooper is a full tower case and it's heavier (14.4kg), expensive and it lacks of a good big front fan (like other full towers).
If you still like it consider that:
1. You have to turn the alignment of the two hdd cages (one, bottom would be enough imo) from their initial, sidewards position to frontal position (and if you remove the top hdd cage somehow add a good 140mm front fan there):

http://www.nexthardware.com/repository/recensioni/626/immagini/img_CmStormTrooperfront-fan_4665142963384143932.jpg

2. Switch to intake the 200mm top fan and try to move it to the frontal area with some modification (there are plenty of holes you'll manage somehow):


3. You'll still have to add one bottom intake, one side intake and one modded internal fan especially if you remove the top hdd case (recommended)









As for the coolest Corsair Vengeance Series CC-9011016-WW, I agree it's a good choice too and you'll have to place two top intake fans









And once again, try to use the bottom hdd cage only (with both fans) and place a bigger internal intake fan just above the bottom cage's internal fan and right under the 5.25 bay cage (as well as the stock front fan)











Here's a good review of the case:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Corsair-Vengeance-C70-Case-Review/1560/1

And remember, the last thing to do no matter which one will you choose is to remove the rear exhaust fan and cut the grill too, that's how our cases work


----------



## SuperDeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*


THANKS!!! that was a great reply everything i wanted to know and made it so much easy for me to choose.
i did not know what atx or atx mini or xl and that stuff for motherboards glad i did not buy one yet









Thanks for all the information, you guys really helped me learn on airflow and cases


----------



## ivanlabrie

Good luck with your build!









Keep us posted with some pics when you finish it.









-

On a sidenote, I'm still confused about "creation and the universe" I mean airflow and my top down cooler... (let's see who catches the Devin Townsend reference xD)
Modular forms and elliptic curves! Infinite fire revolving around infinite parallels, fractals of infinite reality, each cascading, gliding in an infinite wheel. Tell me...
Should I have a rear exhaust? Top intakes? or what?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Something is better than nothing! I plan on getting *this filter* eventually. Saving for moving and won't have extra cash for awhile.


I use 2 Silverstone 140mm magnetic filters on my top. Work great.
http://www.aerocooler.com/shop.cart?action=ITEM&prod_id=FANSSFF141B
Paid $5 each for them.. don't remember where.


----------



## solsamurai

I've looked into filters like that and would rather have the look and function of the Demciflex filter. Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> I still don't get why cases include filtered intakes everywhere but the top. It's why my 650D needs to be air blasted once a month.


because the top was meant to be an exhaust port







putting filter on an exhaust port is counterproductive. if you are going to use that as an intake port, then that's your choice and you have to provide the filter for it









as for your choice in filter, demciflex is decent, especially if you like the looks. but the wave mesh / accordion style works best for airflow.


----------



## Infinite Jest

Any suggestions for this set-up?



Currently it has that configuration with the stock 200mm fans, a yate loon medium speed on the bottom and the blademaster that came with 212+ rigged in the 5.25" bays.


----------



## chinesethunda

yeah, cut out the rear mesh, remove all of your pci slot covers


----------



## Infinite Jest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> yeah, cut out the rear mesh, remove all of your pci slot covers


Do you notice any appreciable dust buildup with leaving the covers off?


----------



## ivanlabrie

You shouldn't if you push air outwards thru them.
The fan setup should front intakes, top intakes, side intake, rear passive exhaust...
That way sounds better for me. I have them off, and haven't got dust buildup down there since my rig has been running. (almost 2 months now)


----------



## Infinite Jest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> You shouldn't if you push air outwards thru them.
> The fan setup should front intakes, top intakes, side intake, rear passive exhaust...
> That way sounds better for me. I have them off, and haven't got dust buildup down there since my rig has been running. (almost 2 months now)


So would you recommend just flipping over the top 200mm fan or making some kind other configuration up there?


----------



## SuperDeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Infinite Jest*
> 
> So would you recommend just flipping over the top 200mm fan or making some kind other configuration up there?


this is what they suggested you do

remove rear pci e slots
remove rear honey comb mesh
and everything else intake








wind tunnel ?
correct me if i'm wrong guys ?


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuperDeo*
> 
> this is what they suggested you do
> 
> remove rear pci e slots
> remove rear honey comb mesh
> and everything else intake
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wind tunnel ?
> correct me if i'm wrong guys ?


Looks good, I'd avoid the low intake and better put that fan as a mid case fan, attached to the hdd cage, to better aid the wint tunnel effect.


----------



## Infinite Jest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *SuperDeo*
> 
> this is what they suggested you do
> 
> remove rear pci e slots
> remove rear honey comb mesh
> and everything else intake
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wind tunnel ?
> correct me if i'm wrong guys ?
> 
> 
> 
> Looks good, I'd avoid the low intake and better put that fan as a mid case fan, attached to the hdd cage, to better aid the wint tunnel effect.
Click to expand...

I was actually going to ask about that. The lower fan doesn't seem to do much, so I guess I will remove it. At tips for mounting to the hdd cage?


----------



## ivanlabrie

It has screws for a fan there, if I recall correctly.

If not, zipties are friendly and always handy...


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuperDeo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Infinite Jest*
> 
> So would you recommend just flipping over the top 200mm fan or making some kind other configuration up there?
> 
> 
> 
> this is what they suggested you do
> 
> remove rear pci e slots
> remove rear honey comb mesh
> and everything else intake
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wind tunnel ?
> correct me if i'm wrong guys ?
Click to expand...

This part looks good. Move that top fan as far forward as you can. Don't worry about screw holes. You can use double-sided Velcro and stick it up with that. You can buy industrial strength Velcro now. Added bonus: the Velcro thatch attenuates vibrations.

Ditto attaching a fan to your HD cage.


----------



## Infinite Jest

I actually use silicone mounting pins on all of my case fans, but I'll give that a shot. Thanks everyone! (I'll hand out rep when I get to a pc)


----------



## SuperDeo

i will put a fan by hdd cage too than


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Infinite Jest*
> 
> I actually use silicone mounting pins on all of my case fans, but I'll give that a shot. Thanks everyone! (I'll hand out rep when I get to a pc)


I use these. But if you need to put a fan where there are no screw holes, don't bother drilling. Velcro.


----------



## langer1972

I have my setup using dryer hoses blowing AC air into the bottom case fans to suck in the cold air and 3 fans in the top taking out air and one in the back taking out air.So to me this set up works great because the fans are all helping each other get cold air in the whole case.So my load temps are very low I have been folding for almost 3 days straight 24/7 and my temps are 50 51 49 52 on avg on the CPU at 1.40 volts at 4.7 GHz.


----------



## arrow0309

How do you guys see the new Bitfenix Shinobi XL working best?
Would it be enough with its three 230mm fans (two top) intake + one bottom 120/140mm intake and eventually one extra fan internal?









http://content.hwigroup.net/images/products/xl/148550-5.jpg
http://content.hwigroup.net/images/products/xl/148550-9.jpg
http://content.hwigroup.net/images/products/xl/148550-3.jpg

I have to do a positive pressure setup on that case for a friend and he doesn't want any visible modifications (except for the rear grill cut, maybe)


----------



## solsamurai

No front fan?


----------



## Infinite Jest

Velcro is awesome! Also, any recommendations for hdd/ssd placement?


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Infinite Jest*
> 
> Velcro is awesome! Also, any recommendations for hdd/ssd placement?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Move the SSD out of the HDD cage to allow more air to flow through the front.


----------



## Infinite Jest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Infinite Jest*
> 
> Velcro is awesome! Also, any recommendations for hdd/ssd placement?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Move the SSD out of the HDD cage to allow more air to flow through the front.
Click to expand...

That gives me an excuse to use more Velcro! :thumbup:


----------



## ehume

I have two SSD's now -- one in a single 3.5 inch bay, sitting on one of those metal adapters. The other is Velcro'd to the side of that 3.5 inch bay. It's cute.


----------



## Infinite Jest

I strapped the ssd to the back of the 5.25" cage and found some foam for the upper front intake. You guys are great!


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Infinite Jest*
> 
> I strapped the ssd to the back of the 5.25" cage and found some foam for the upper front intake. You guys are great!


5.2" bay fan FTW!









Same setup here...
wonder if I can fit a 140mm there too. We'll see.


----------



## SuperDeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*


is that Totoro Momo ?

And i had a question ? for all you guys
is this good enough for the Haf 912

number 2 is the side panel intake
lets say there is 3 front intake 120mm fans 1 in the 5.2 cage ? and the back exhaust and the top back exhaust


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuperDeo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> 
> 
> is that Totoro Momo ?
> 
> And i had a question ? for all you guys
> is this good enough for the Haf 912
> 
> number 2 is the side panel intake
> lets say there is 3 front intake 120mm fans 1 in the 5.2 cage ? and the back exhaust and the top back exhaust
Click to expand...

He is my delightful neighbor, sort of like a pookah.

I prefer top intake to top exhaust. With a 912 you have the opportunity for a wind tunnel. Set the forward top position to intake. Block off the rear top fan position. Then put your DVD on the bottom 5.25 slot. Use the top 3 for a front intake fan. If the top of the 5.25 bay is not close you will have room for a 140mm front fan. With the top intake and a front intake, you will really get the air blowing back through your cpu heatsink.

Then remove all your unused slot covers.

Advanced: get a nibbler, cut out the rear grill. Leave it open. With no resistance you will need no fan.

You will get something like the pic below, only better: you have a HAF 912.


----------



## Infinite Jest

I'm not sure why I didn't think about this before, but I think buying a hot swap 5.25" hdd cage would kill two birds with one stone; limiting vibrations produced by my lovely F3 by turning it of when I don't need it and opening up the cage area for air flow. Does this look like a good option or are there better in that price range?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817993031


----------



## mikupoiss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> No front fan?


Don't be so surprised. I removed front intake of my 690 II due to extreme dust buildup issues.
Now I have 2x Xilence 140mm intakes (top and bottom) with 120mm Enermax side-intake and I still have positive airlfow









Oh and, temps didn't change a bit to worse


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> No front fan?


Actually there is a big, 230mm front fan on the Shinobi XL. Like I said, 3x 230mm intake fans, two of them on the top position (both):



And one bottom intake but no 5.25 bay fan.
I could if necessary add an extra (internal) intake fan like the TY-150 (it seems you did a similar thing on your new rig).
Or maybe better a 170mm Xigmatech bueline like this one central internal intake
And no side panel fans.

Would that be enough? How do you see two top 230mm intake fans?

http://content.hwigroup.net/images/products/xl/148550-7.jpg

The front one would be a blue led bitfenix spectre pro


----------



## ivanlabrie

That case looks mighty impressive...I really like that and the Prodigy lol (both extremes)

I'm not familiar with full tower cases that much, but the 3 230mm fans sound good for airflow and the wind tunnel effect.


----------



## chinesethunda

thinking of getting a case for a friend, was thinking the haf912 but not sure if i like it enough lol, was also thinking a rosewill case too, needed it to be around the 50 dollar range


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> thinking of getting a case for a friend, was thinking the haf912 but not sure if i like it enough lol, was also thinking a rosewill case too, needed it to be around the 50 dollar range


Lol I think the haf912 is out of range


----------



## matrix2000x2

Need some help with the following airflow plan. I am going to buy two 1850rpm Scythe GT AP-15s for the H100 radiator after I make a cutout for it on the top of the case. I was wondering if the fans should be intake or exhaust for the best positive airflow configuration. The other fans show in the current picture can also be adjusted to optimize positive airflow.



Case is a Diablotek Fly.

Also for the rear 120mm fan cutout, i cut the grill out but the mounts still remain and I will be installing a Thermaltake Water 2.0 on that rear exhaust 120mm fan mount. I'm doing the GPU to a GTX 680 when I receive it. The all in one unit will pull air from case push it through radiator or I was think maybe making the Thermalwater Water 2.0 push air from out to inside the case, and have the Scythe GTs AP-15 pull their from inside the case and exhaust out.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> This part looks good. Move that top fan as far forward as you can. Don't worry about screw holes. You can use double-sided Velcro and stick it up with that. You can buy industrial strength Velcro now. Added bonus: the Velcro thatch attenuates vibrations.
> 
> Ditto attaching a fan to your HD cage.


I have the same HAF922. How beneficial would it to "move the top fan as far forward as I can" even though it's already 200mm?


----------



## SuperDeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> He is my delightful neighbor, sort of like a pookah.
> 
> I prefer top intake to top exhaust. With a 912 you have the opportunity for a wind tunnel. Set the forward top position to intake. Block off the rear top fan position. Then put your DVD on the bottom 5.25 slot. Use the top 3 for a front intake fan. If the top of the 5.25 bay is not close you will have room for a 140mm front fan. With the top intake and a front intake, you will really get the air blowing back through your cpu heatsink.
> 
> Then remove all your unused slot covers.


Haha! k great stuff

and thank you for the detailed information


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> This part looks good. Move that top fan as far forward as you can. Don't worry about screw holes. You can use double-sided Velcro and stick it up with that. You can buy industrial strength Velcro now. Added bonus: the Velcro thatch attenuates vibrations.
> 
> Ditto attaching a fan to your HD cage.
> 
> 
> 
> I have the same HAF922. How beneficial would it to "move the top fan as far forward as I can" even though it's already 200mm?
Click to expand...

Only if you're using the fan as intake.
In order to create a "wind tunnel" airflow effect east/west oriented and also for a better cpu cooler air feeding you're advised to do that, as much as you can, there is some room for that in your case, the 922 is pretty large









http://cdn.erodov.net/portal//reviews/cabinet/haf-922/haf-922-13.jpg

You'd have to either drill for the two front screws or use velcro for that
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuperDeo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> He is my delightful neighbor, sort of like a pookah.
> 
> I prefer top intake to top exhaust. With a 912 you have the opportunity for a wind tunnel. Set the forward top position to intake. Block off the rear top fan position. Then put your DVD on the bottom 5.25 slot. Use the top 3 for a front intake fan. If the top of the 5.25 bay is not close you will have room for a 140mm front fan. With the top intake and a front intake, you will really get the air blowing back through your cpu heatsink.
> 
> Then remove all your unused slot covers.
> 
> 
> 
> Haha! k great stuff
> 
> and thank you for the detailed information
Click to expand...

I don't think there is much to do with the 912's top fan for the wind tunnel since is placed in the rear top position:

http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviewimages/coolermaster-haf912/coolermaster-haf912_top.jpg

Supposing you'll move the fan 2-3cm forward you still won't have not even a central intake position.
Maybe only if you use your cpu cooler north/south oriented.

You better look for the newer Haf XM for that wind tunnel opportunity








Imagine you're using the front top intake fan only (and it's not a high ceiling case)


----------



## ehume

I have nothing to add.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I have nothing to add.


How about my previous post concerning the Bitfenix Shinobi XL that I have to set up for a friend?


----------



## matrix2000x2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I have nothing to add.




I asked for some help.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matrix2000x2*
> 
> 
> I asked for some help.


I also have nothing to add. Sorry


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matrix2000x2*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I have nothing to add.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I asked for some help.
Click to expand...

The positive pressure inside a case is something that would improve an air cooler's performance imho.
You can still try that with your H100 and all fans as intake (4 fans), this way you'll have stunning cpu cooling and somehow enough positive pressure for the other components cooling.
However your H100 is gonna blow warm air inside the cabinet so make sure you're having as much other intake fans as you can


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Only if you're using the fan as intake.
> In order to create a "wind tunnel" airflow effect east/west oriented and also for a better cpu cooler air feeding you're advised to do that, as much as you can, there is some room for that in your case, the 922 is pretty large
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://cdn.erodov.net/portal//reviews/cabinet/haf-922/haf-922-13.jpg
> You'd have to either drill for the two front screws or use velcro for that
> I don't think there is much to do with the 912's top fan for the wind tunnel since is placed in the rear top position:
> http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviewimages/coolermaster-haf912/coolermaster-haf912_top.jpg
> Supposing you'll move the fan 2-3cm forward you still won't have not even a central intake position.
> Maybe only if you use your cpu cooler north/south oriented.
> You better look for the newer Haf XM for that wind tunnel opportunity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine you're using the front top intake fan only (and it's not a high ceiling case)


I forgot to mention that my top fan is already set as intake. PCI slot pillars and read honeycomb grill are already removed too. So how big of an advantage is moving the top intake fan of my HAF922 forward a little bit? Can you provide me some comparison numbers?


----------



## SuperDeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> I don't think there is much to do with the 912's top fan for the wind tunnel since is placed in the rear top position:
> 
> Supposing you'll move the fan 2-3cm forward you still won't have not even a central intake position.
> Maybe only if you use your cpu cooler north/south oriented.
> You better look for the newer Haf XM for that wind tunnel opportunity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine you're using the front top intake fan only (and it's not a high ceiling case)


That Case







two giant fans look awesome but k i understand now and case manufactures need to make a case for wind tunnel effect too much cutting


----------



## She loved E

yeah it'd be cool if cases were set up for either front to back tunnel or bottom to top. with fans every which way its tough to optimize one thing without screwing up something else at the same time.

common sense says the best setup for air cooling would be one of the above. water cooling would be to isolate the rads from the case & run as high cfm as possible.


----------



## matrix2000x2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> The positive pressure inside a case is something that would improve an air cooler's performance imho.
> You can still try that with your H100 and all fans as intake (4 fans), this way you'll have stunning cpu cooling and somehow enough positive pressure for the other components cooling.
> However your H100 is gonna blow warm air inside the cabinet so make sure you're having as much other intake fans as you can


So you what you are suggesting is have the H100 pull air in and pushing it through the rad into the case? Also the other case fans as intake as well? I think that works.


----------



## SuperDeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *matrix2000x2*
> 
> So you what you are suggesting is have the H100 pull air in and pushing it through the rad into the case? Also the other case fans as intake as well? I think that works.


i think arrow0309 means This, cut mesh in back move rear fan to the front

to be honest hot air will blow directly into the h-100 if the air go's out and it looks like you only have 1 intake ? and if the air go's in hot air will blow onto your heat sink but it will be more fresh ? i suggest you try both and see witch one works best for you, intake or exhaust ?


----------



## matrix2000x2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuperDeo*
> 
> i think arrow0309 means This, cut mesh in back move rear fan to the front
> 
> to be honest hot air will blow directly into the h-100 if the air go's out and it looks like you only have 1 intake ? and if the air go's in hot air will blow onto your heat sink but it will be more fresh ? i suggest you try both and see witch one works best for you, intake or exhaust ?


I have 2 intakes, I removed the bottom hard drive cage. I bought a three 5.25" bay that lets you install a 120mm fan and installed it into the top three bays, so I have 2 intakes. However, there is 3.5" hdd and 2.5" ssd installed in that harddrive bay so I don't know how much air is able to be pushed through pass the drives.


----------



## ehume

I still have nothing to add.

I wrote that the first time because I checked in here on my way to work and had to be brief. The reason I wrote it is that I was impressed with what you all had written to each other. You all answered each others' questions at least as well as I could have.

None of us has all the answers. None of us has been particularly trained in this area. We are all working through our understanding of airflow and how we can cool our stuff. When I see a bunch of posts that indicate people understand about bringing the coolest air to bear on hot components and are advising each other on how best to do that . . . well, I have nothing to add.

Dudes. It's a compliment.

As for those of you who have asked questions, the people on this thread have answered them, IMO.


----------



## Infinite Jest

My top 200 mm stock fan seems to like to tick audibly now that I've flipped it from exhaust to intake and oiling it did nothing. Any recommendations for a silent and efficient replacement?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Only if you're using the fan as intake.
> In order to create a "wind tunnel" airflow effect east/west oriented and also for a better cpu cooler air feeding you're advised to do that, as much as you can, there is some room for that in your case, the 922 is pretty large
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://cdn.erodov.net/portal//reviews/cabinet/haf-922/haf-922-13.jpg
> You'd have to either drill for the two front screws or use velcro for that
> I don't think there is much to do with the 912's top fan for the wind tunnel since is placed in the rear top position:
> http://www.hardwareheaven.com/reviewimages/coolermaster-haf912/coolermaster-haf912_top.jpg
> Supposing you'll move the fan 2-3cm forward you still won't have not even a central intake position.
> Maybe only if you use your cpu cooler north/south oriented.
> You better look for the newer Haf XM for that wind tunnel opportunity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imagine you're using the front top intake fan only (and it's not a high ceiling case)


I forgot to mention that my top fan is already set as intake. PCI slot pillars and read honeycomb grill are already removed too. So how big of an advantage is moving the top intake fan of my HAF922 forward a little bit? Can you provide me some comparison numbers?


----------



## ehume

Kevin

Given that you're already using the forward fan position, you're not going to get any additional benefit from moving that fan forward. Moving a large fan forward benefits those who have central top fans. They would be trying to achieve in part what you already have.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Kevin
> 
> Given that you're already using the forward fan position, you're not going to get any additional benefit from moving that fan forward. Moving a large fan forward benefits those who have central top fans. They would be trying to achieve in part what you already have.


I don't use the forward fan position for my top intake, I actually have the default position of the top fan in my HAF922. This is why I'm asking how beneficial would it be to move the fan forward just a little bit (I say this because by visual inspection, they space with holes remaining is just very minimal).


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuperDeo*
> 
> i think arrow0309 means This, cut mesh in back move rear fan to the front
> 
> to be honest hot air will blow directly into the h-100 if the air go's out and it looks like you only have 1 intake ? and if the air go's in hot air will blow onto your heat sink but it will be more fresh ? i suggest you try both and see witch one works best for you, intake or exhaust ?


I would put a divider between back vent and PCI slots from back to front. This would seperate the hot air from H100 so GPU below the divider only gets cool are from 2 lower front fans.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Kevin
> 
> Given that you're already using the forward fan position, you're not going to get any additional benefit from moving that fan forward. Moving a large fan forward benefits those who have central top fans. They would be trying to achieve in part what you already have.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't use the forward fan position for my top intake, I actually have the default position of the top fan in my HAF922. This is why I'm asking how beneficial would it be to move the fan forward just a little bit (I say this because by visual inspection, they space with holes remaining is just very minimal).
Click to expand...

Sorry. I got the HAF XM mixed up with your 922. On a 922, I don't think you will get much if any benefit from moving the fan forward. On some cases with 200mm top fans that are centrally placed, there is room to move forward two inches or so. I don't think you have that much forward travel.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Sorry. I got the HAF XM mixed up with your 922. On a 922, I don't think you will get much if any benefit from moving the fan forward. On some cases with 200mm top fans that are centrally placed, there is room to move forward two inches or so. I don't think you have that much forward travel.


Yup, exactly what I meant earlier. So I guess my case is all set. I wonder if there is still anything I can do to improve my temps?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Sorry. I got the HAF XM mixed up with your 922. On a 922, I don't think you will get much if any benefit from moving the fan forward. On some cases with 200mm top fans that are centrally placed, there is room to move forward two inches or so. I don't think you have that much forward travel.
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, exactly what I meant earlier. So I guess my case is all set. I wonder if there is still anything I can do to improve my temps?
Click to expand...

Set your AC to a lower temp?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Set your AC to a lower temp?


Lol, but I can't turn ON my AC every single time due to electricity bill consumption


----------



## chinesethunda

i turn my ac on all the time cuz my rig just blasts heat everywhere lol


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> i turn my ac on all the time cuz my rig just blasts heat everywhere lol


One possible answer to that -- and one that might save AC bills -- is to channel your exhaust out of your room. Every erg, every calorie not dumped into your room is ehat your AC does not need to compe with.

That brings up Kevin: channeling your exhaust out the window is a way to improve your cooling. Especially with the cooling designs we are exploring: multiple inputs, one or two exhausts. You could build a box out of sheet styrene (here, here, here, here, here) and put a big exhaust fan on it, send the hot air out the window.

I know I've told this story before, but back in the day I put a muffin fan on a pet carrier. A flexible dryer duct led from a fan to a dryer exhaust vent -- the kind with the rain shield and a flap (they were entirely sheet metal then). The vent was set in a piece of wood I put in my sliding window. I painted it the same color as the bricks. It looked nice, but it smelled of cat feces. Meanwhile, inside my apt some people never knew I had a cat.

Something like this would work for carrying heat out, especially where electricity is so expensive that your AC must be limited.

Perhaps even two muffin fans and two dryer ducts and vents. It need not be 12v -- could be AC (alternating current, not air conditioning) like my muffin fan.


----------



## chinesethunda

that makes sense, might work I suppose, however my rig's rear end faces me instead of away from me, so it would be hard to duct around it, I might have to rearrange my room.
I have a big air circulater that I might just tape the drier duct to and let it suck out whatever air it can. How would you suggest to mount a drier duct to the back of a case? lets say 120mm exhaust hole


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> One possible answer to that -- and one that might save AC bills -- is to channel your exhaust out of your room. Every erg, every calorie not dumped into your room is ehat your AC does not need to compe with.
> 
> That brings up Kevin: channeling your exhaust out the window is a way to improve your cooling. Especially with the cooling designs we are exploring: multiple inputs, one or two exhausts. You could build a box out of sheet styrene (here, here, here, here, here) and put a big exhaust fan on it, send the hot air out the window.
> 
> I know I've told this story before, but back in the day I put a muffin fan on a pet carrier. A flexible dryer duct led from a fan to a dryer exhaust vent
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- the kind with the rain shield and a flap (they were entirely sheet metal then). The vent was set in a piece of wood I put in my sliding window. I painted it the same color as the bricks. It looked nice, but it smelled of cat feces. Meanwhile, inside my apt some people never knew I had a cat.
> 
> Something like this would work for carrying heat out, especially where electricity is so expensive that your AC must be limited.
> 
> Perhaps even two muffin fans and two dryer ducts and vents. It need not be 12v -- could be AC (alternating current, not air conditioning) like my muffin fan.


Thanks! If I understand it correctly, channeling my exhaust outside the window will minimize heat inside the room therefore I don't need AC anymore?


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Thanks! If I understand it correctly, channeling my exhaust outside the window will minimize heat inside the room therefore I don't need AC anymore?


Your temps will tell you that.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> that makes sense, might work I suppose, however my rig's rear end faces me instead of away from me, so it would be hard to duct around it, I might have to rearrange my room.
> I have a big air circulater that I might just tape the drier duct to and let it suck out whatever air it can. How would you suggest to mount a drier duct to the back of a case? lets say 120mm exhaust hole


I'd have to visit your hardware store to tell you that. Ain't no official method. Time for creativity.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Thanks! If I understand it correctly, channeling my exhaust outside the window will minimize heat inside the room therefore I don't need AC anymore?
> 
> 
> 
> Your temps will tell you that.
Click to expand...

Amen! But your need for AC will be lessened by some amount.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I'd have to visit your hardware store to tell you that. Ain't no official method. Time for creativity.
> Amen! But your need for AC will be lessened by some amount.


+1. That's what happened in my situation. My system temps are still decent at higher ambient temps = less A/C = cheaper electric bill!


----------



## chinesethunda

I would do it not so much for my A/C bill, but just to not have such a hot room >_>
However I live in Florida so if I were to open my window it would let heat in, unless I can figure out a way to have it always blowing out air.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I'd have to visit your hardware store to tell you that. Ain't no official method. Time for creativity.
> Amen! But your need for AC will be lessened by some amount.


Thanks!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> +1. That's what happened in my situation. My system temps are still decent at higher ambient temps = less A/C = cheaper electric bill!


Thanks!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> I would do it not so much for my A/C bill, but just to not have such a hot room >_>
> However I live in Florida so if I were to open my window it would let heat in, unless I can figure out a way to have it always blowing out air.


Oh, it's the same here in the Philippines. You won't believe how hot it is in here, 33C ambient temp outside


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> I would do it not so much for my A/C bill, but just to not have such a hot room >_>
> However I live in Florida so if I were to open my window it would let heat in, unless I can figure out a way to have it always blowing out air.


The idea is to have a piece of plywood or a board to insert in the gap between your window and the sill. Then you put a vent or vents on the insert. That way warm outside air never gets into your abode.


----------



## chinesethunda

I figured that would be the setup, im trying to think if a cardboard or something hard would suffice, i guess il have to take a look


----------



## Flanders finest

New CPU cooling concept by Sandia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWQZNXEKkaU&feature=player_embedded#!
Will this change dramatically the concept of wind tunnel / positive flow... what do you guys think? Ehume?


----------



## chinesethunda

saw it the other day, they had a video on it a long time ago. assuming it works well, i guess it would kinda be like a stock intel heat sink, bringing back the side fans and tunnels


----------



## ehume

I thought it was remarkable when I first saw it a year ago. My main concern was whether the air bearing would transmit heat. I guess it does.

Thanks for finding the video and posting the link. +rep


----------



## psyclum

when i 1st saw it, I decided that it's one of those things that i have to see it personally to make a final decision as to if i like it







as ehume has pointed out, the technology is entirely based on the thermal transfer efficiency of the air bearing. essentially, you are using turbulent air (air bearing) as your TIM and i'm simply not satisfied that it would perform as well as a more traditional TIM we use today.

IF in fact that the thermal transfer rate of the air bearing is competitive with traditional TIM, then there are alot of very exciting "cross patent product" possibilities such as using this type of motor propulsion (tip magnetic driving fan design)



on the "disc" portion of the sandia cooler which would allow for a almost direct contact between the cooler and the IHS of the chip. (in fact, at rest, it would be direct contact since there is no air bearing built up from turbulence yet)

the primary problem i see with the sandia cooler is that it does not sit well in different orientations. in a horizontal orientation, it works as engineered, however in a vertical orientation, (most systems are built with the mobo in a vertical orientation) the air bearing may run into problems due to gravity not being applied evenly across the surface area of the air bearing. this is the primary reason why i think the tip magnetic driving fan design would be a good match since it can offers a method to "mag lev" the fan assembly to counter gravity distortion of the air bearing.

anyway, until i see it personally, i reserve my skepticism on the thermal transfer efficiency of air bearing as a TIM.


----------



## carinae

Hello, can you guys recommend a incase (behind the hardrive trays) fan to push air outside of case? I can only fit a 120mm fan side. I'm thinking Noctua F12 or S12 or something with high rpm? Thanks


----------



## airdeano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carinae*
> 
> Hello, can you guys recommend a incase (behind the hardrive trays) fan to push air outside of case?


so you want to push air around an object to exhaust out? that describes a fan that needs high
static pressure. air is lazy, once the air column is disturbed the air tends to break up and meander
aimlessly. trying to push it through an object and continue is a tough function for air.

so the pressure is what tries to keep the air moving through and around objects. you can have
100cfm fans than can move 100cfm of air, but once the air is "challenged" to do another task
other than move forward it usually refuses (called restriction). now add pressure to that 100cfm
and the air has a stronger presence to function as intended.

i believe it'd be easier for the air to be pulled through or around an object than trying to push it
as before air doesnt have an attention span larger than a gnat.

the F12 has a higher static pressure stat than the S12.

airdeano


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *airdeano*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *carinae*
> 
> Hello, can you guys recommend a incase (behind the hardrive trays) fan to push air outside of case?
> 
> 
> 
> so you want to push air around an object to exhaust out? that describes a fan that needs high
> static pressure. air is lazy, once the air column is disturbed the air tends to break up and meander
> aimlessly. trying to push it through an object and continue is a tough function for air.
> 
> so the pressure is what tries to keep the air moving through and around objects. you can have
> 100cfm fans than can move 100cfm of air, but once the air is "challenged" to do another task
> other than move forward it usually refuses (called restriction). now add pressure to that 100cfm
> and the air has a stronger presence to function as intended.
> 
> i believe it'd be easier for the air to be pulled through or around an object than trying to push it
> as before air doesnt have an attention span larger than a gnat.
> 
> the F12 has a higher static pressure stat than the S12.
> 
> airdeano
Click to expand...

I would recommend a Gentle Typhoon for this purpose.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I would recommend a Gentle Typhoon for this purpose.


+1. Should do the job nicely.


----------



## sscent

Nice write thanks


----------



## carinae

I might settle to a noctua fan. So which 120mm Noctua fan would you put behind the hdd bay to push air to the back of the case? P12, F12 or S12? Thanks.

Ok, I just bought a Gentle Typhoon 5400 rpm. It was the only one in the store. I thought I could plug it to my case fan controller but I would need an extra wire for that. A molex to 3 pin female. I just checked the local listing and there's none available.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carinae*
> 
> I might settle to a noctua fan. So which 120mm Noctua fan would you put behind the hdd bay to push air to the back of the case? P12, F12 or S12? Thanks.
> 
> Ok, I just bought a Gentle Typhoon 5400 rpm. It was the only one in the store. I thought I could plug it to my case fan controller but I would need an extra wire for that. A molex to 3 pin female. I just checked the local listing and there's none available.


Just look into ehume's signature and click on the *9. Gentle Typhoon->PWM*


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carinae*
> 
> I might settle to a noctua fan. So which 120mm Noctua fan would you put behind the hdd bay to push air to the back of the case? P12, F12 or S12? Thanks.
> Ok, I just bought a Gentle Typhoon 5400 rpm. It was the only one in the store. I thought I could plug it to my case fan controller but I would need an extra wire for that. A molex to 3 pin female. I just checked the local listing and there's none available.


Should come with one in the package.


----------



## carinae

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Just look into ehume's signature and click on the *9. Gentle Typhoon->PWM*


Far too complex for me. Thinking about undervolting it to 7v but I have read mixed opinions on it. That it can damage the PSU. Probably the best way is to accept I wouldn't be able to use it and move on


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carinae*
> 
> Far too complex for me. Thinking about undervolting it to 7v but I have read mixed opinions on it. That it can damage the PSU. Probably the best way is to accept I wouldn't be able to use it and move on


You can send it my way too!








I might have a use for that fan, and if you have more than one the merrier.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carinae*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Just look into ehume's signature and click on the *9. Gentle Typhoon->PWM*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Far too complex for me. Thinking about undervolting it to 7v but I have read mixed opinions on it. That it can damage the PSU. Probably the best way is to accept I wouldn't be able to use it and move on
Click to expand...

You might look at this. Free shipping."This adapter allows you to connect a 4-pin fan to a 3-pin header, such as on a fan speed controller/rheobus. This adapter is only for power." If you take a micro screwdriver you can free the AP-29's yellow RPM wire from its plug and put that into the adapter's plug. That will give you ground, variable Voltage, and RPM.



$1.99 and free shipping is a bargain, I think. Just make sure you fan controller can handle it.


----------



## carinae

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> You might look at this. Free shipping."This adapter allows you to connect a 4-pin fan to a 3-pin header, such as on a fan speed controller/rheobus. This adapter is only for power." If you take a micro screwdriver you can free the AP-29's yellow RPM wire from its plug and put that into the adapter's plug. That will give you ground, variable Voltage, and RPM.
> 
> 
> 
> $1.99 and free shipping is a bargain, I think. Just make sure you fan controller can handle it.


Thanks for that. I'm not in the US right now and I can't buy from that store. I did however asked around and there seems to be a guy that makes something similar. I'm thinking of getting one and use it with the fan controller that's built-in in the Cougar Evolution case once I get some clarification from Cougar about its specs. I'm not really into modification and very cautious because I just bought this PC and I don't want to screw it up. Do you think its safe to use this converter cables, and is it also safe to control the power of AP-31 through fan controller?

Here's my set up right now. My 3rd fan kit from Noctua has not yet arrived so I'm testing a P-12 as rear exhaust. So, far I got 3c cooler from the readings. I have to test it further. Some tests I did are turning off the side and bottom fan as well as turning off the bottom fan. Both returned higher temperature, about 2-3c. Motherboard temps read mixed results although the increase in temperature are more significant.

All fans are running at full speed. Front top is the that came with case, the HDD intake is a Deep Cool fan that came with a heatsink.

Dust is a concern in my room so I haven't tried putting the TY140s as intake. I will pick some filters next time I visit a local store.

And, I can't make any destructive modification on the case.









Do you guys have any suggestions? Better front intake fan? Thanks for the comments.


----------



## doyll

Picture looks like TY-140s are intakes.
If your case doesn't have 50mm bottom clearance raise it up. Fans need 50mm free space in front of them.
Silverstone makes some nice magnetic or screw mount 120mm & 140mm filters for good price.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carinae*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> You might look at this. Free shipping."This adapter allows you to connect a 4-pin fan to a 3-pin header, such as on a fan speed controller/rheobus. This adapter is only for power." If you take a micro screwdriver you can free the AP-29's yellow RPM wire from its plug and put that into the adapter's plug. That will give you ground, variable Voltage, and RPM.
> 
> 
> 
> $1.99 and free shipping is a bargain, I think. Just make sure you fan controller can handle it.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for that. I'm not in the US right now and I can't buy from that store. I did however asked around and there seems to be a guy that makes something similar. I'm thinking of getting one and use it with the fan controller that's built-in in the Cougar Evolution case once I get some clarification from Cougar about its specs. I'm not really into modification and very cautious because I just bought this PC and I don't want to screw it up. Do you think its safe to use this converter cables, and is it also safe to control the power of AP-31 through fan controller?
> 
> Here's my set up right now. My 3rd fan kit from Noctua has not yet arrived so I'm testing a P-12 as rear exhaust. So, far I got 3c cooler from the readings. I have to test it further. Some tests I did are turning off the side and bottom fan as well as turning off the bottom fan. Both returned higher temperature, about 2-3c. Motherboard temps read mixed results although the increase in temperature are more significant.
> 
> All fans are running at full speed. Front top is the that came with case, the HDD intake is a Deep Cool fan that came with a heatsink.
> 
> Dust is a concern in my room so I haven't tried putting the TY140s as intake. I will pick some filters next time I visit a local store.
> 
> And, I can't make any destructive modification on the case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you guys have any suggestions? Better front intake fan? Thanks for the comments.
Click to expand...

Lovely. Two f12's on your D14, a p12 for exhaust. Not bad. I like that you have put 140mm fans on your top, bottom and side intakes. Given that you don't want to cut anything, I would recommend you remove your unused slot covers to improve airflow past your gpu cards.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Lovely. Two f12's on your D14, a p12 for exhaust. Not bad. I like that you have put 140mm fans on your top, bottom and side intakes. Given that you don't want to cut anything, I would recommend you remove your unused slot covers to improve airflow past your gpu cards.


Actually he doesn't use not even one gpu card


----------



## ivanlabrie

Eventually he will, right?
I'm in same boat an I removed the pci slot covers...It never hurts.


----------



## carinae

Alright, will take the slots out.

I need some opinion. I can move one of the TY-140 as top front intake or I could get 2 high speed fans such as Yate Loon D12SH or Slipstream. The case does come with a fan controller, I can tone it down when the AC is on. Then move the current 120m cougar fan and deepblade as push/pull HDD fans. Do you it would make any difference in temps? Or the D14 is getting enough air from the my current intakes? (top, bottom, side, 1 front bay, 1 front hdd). Another thing I could do is get the high speed fans and put the TY-140 inside the case in the other end of the 5" bay. Thanks for the tips.

I also noticed that my front 120mm intake fans doesn't blow much air in. Both go through mesh and filter. But, the top intake 140mm P14 blows more obvious. I feel it by hand









Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carinae*
> 
> Alright, will take the slots out.
> 
> I need some opinion. I can move one of the TY-140 as top front intake or I could get 2 high speed fans such as Yate Loon D12SH or Slipstream. The case does come with a fan controller, I can tone it down when the AC is on. Then move the current 120m cougar fan and deepblade as push/pull HDD fans. Do you it would make any difference in temps? Or the D14 is getting enough air from the my current intakes? (top, bottom, side, 1 front bay, 1 front hdd). Another thing I could do is get the high speed fans and put the TY-140 inside the case in the other end of the 5" bay. Thanks for the tips.
> 
> I also noticed that my front 120mm intake fans doesn't blow much air in. Both go through mesh and filter. But, the top intake 140mm P14 blows more obvious. I feel it by hand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions.


Your unobstructed upper front intake fan should feed plenty of air back to the D14. Your highest power fan -- static pressure + cfm -- should be at the back. Your forward top fan should be gentle. Otherwise it will push not only back toward your D14 but forward toward your upper front intake. Basically, the forward top fan is to join with the upper front intake as well as keep the warmed air from the motherboard from rising and getting into the D14's intake. That's another reason to leave the back slots as open as possible -- to give the motherboard air a way to escape.

You have a typical HD cage: it blocks air going through it. If you Velcro a pull fan on the other side -- a mid-case fan -- you will get more air through there.


----------



## carinae

Ok, I'll get to that in my next test runs. I'll tests the P14 in different speeds. How long do you typically run short tests? I only do 10 mins.

How about the side and bottom TY-140s? Both are running at full speed. My guess is to reduce the side one. Or, just move the bottom as HDD-pull then reduce the side forcing a front to back direction. Come to think of it, my current set up, everything at full speed, does something like expanding air inside the case until there's no longer space instead of pushing it out in a single direction.

Thanks again.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carinae*
> 
> Ok, I'll get to that in my next test runs. I'll tests the P14 in different speeds. How long do you typically run short tests? I only do 10 mins.
> 
> How about the side and bottom TY-140s? Both are running at full speed. My guess is to reduce the side one. Or, just move the bottom as HDD-pull then reduce the side forcing a front to back direction. Come to think of it, my current set up, everything at full speed, does something like expanding air inside the case until there's no longer space instead of pushing it out in a single direction.
> 
> Thanks again.


Ah, the glories of thinking things through.


----------



## doyll

ehume to the rescue!


----------



## ehume

Check out this case.


----------



## Katcilla

Ah, yes, the C70. Looks like a good'un for airflow, I would recommend it as a mid-tower, yep-yep.


----------



## doyll

yes in deed.


----------



## ivanlabrie

That thing is so sexy!

I'll stick with my cm 690 II for a while though...
Perhaps I'll get to build a Trinity rig in it lol


----------



## wilsouk

Hi all,

I am pretty new to this but have been following your thread for a little while now as I try and fine tune my air cooling before gently getting into overclocking.

As you can see from picture I have following at the moment;

- x2 top intake fans (Ultrakaze 3000)
- push / pull (Ultrakaze 3000 x2) Hyper Coolermaster controlled via fan controller
- Gentle Tycoon 120m 1850rpm lower front (obscured in pic by HDDs)

- Have removed PCI card grates

Planning on;
- Removing rear grate

-> Considering putting an Ultrakaze 3000 ontop of HDD deck as shown in picture, any suggestions regarding this? Ideally it would go in bays above but unfortunately there isn't room with cables, DVD and fan controller.

-> At the moment I have nothing in middle front as I did have gentle tycoon 5000 but was far too loud, even on lowest voltage via fan controller. This would fit 120mm or 140mm. Was thinking about a gentle tycoon 3000 or would this be overkill with an ultrakaze on the HDD deck (which would be inline).

--> I did up until today have x2 Ultrakaze 3000 on side panel (which alines with my GPU), which are now on CPU. Should I replace or just leave? I do plan on overclocking my 7070 at some point...
If so would another x2 gentle tycoon 1850 suffice? Or maybe R4s?

-> I have seen some just with one top fan and block other the top rear?

One of my main concerns, and the reason I have been tweaking is noise; the gentle tycoon 1850 is fine at max power, but jeez the ultrakazes are far too loud. Dont mind sticking them on half power push pulling CPU would tempted to remove top panels ones as they are currently on min power and therefore click.

Any input would be great!

Learnt a lot already from just spectating this thread,

Thanks


----------



## ehume

@wilsouk

You have a high ceiling case. You cannot make a wind tunnel. So a pair of 25mm fans -- 120mm or 140mm -- would be best.

Your mid-case fan will work more quietly than a front fan: I believe a front fan would pull air rapidly through those horizontal bars and make noise. But test the two configurations.

As for exactly which fans, that is a matter for experimentation. When you have tried a bunch of configurations, then you can tell us.

BTW -- I like what you've done so far. Keep it up, and post more pics.


----------



## wilsouk

Quote:


> You have a high ceiling case. You cannot make a wind tunnel. So a pair of 25mm fans -- 120mm or 140mm -- would be best.


Take it you mean the top fans? Was considering blocking out the surplus grating around them to funnel air out of rear.

As I can not make an air tunnel, what are your views of side panels fans?
Quote:


> Your mid-case fan will work more quietly than a front fan: I believe a front fan would pull air rapidly through those horizontal bars and make noise. But test the two configurations.


Once I get some foam etc to make mid case fan will let you know!
Quote:


> As for exactly which fans, that is a matter for experimentation. When you have tried a bunch of configurations, then you can tell us.


Is there any consenting opinion on how much air they need to shift, I presume front need to be powerful to go front to back, not sure about top and (possibly) side panel. I feel Ultrakaze maybe overkill, especially as they give my hoover a run for its money noise wise....

Cheers
Liam


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wilsouk*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> You have a high ceiling case. You cannot make a wind tunnel. So a pair of 25mm fans -- 120mm or 140mm -- would be best.
> 
> 
> 
> Take it you mean the top fans? Was considering blocking out the surplus grating around them to funnel air out of rear.
> 
> As I can not make an air tunnel, what are your views of side panels fans?
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Your mid-case fan will work more quietly than a front fan: I believe a front fan would pull air rapidly through those horizontal bars and make noise. But test the two configurations.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Once I get some foam etc to make mid case fan will let you know!
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> As for exactly which fans, that is a matter for experimentation. When you have tried a bunch of configurations, then you can tell us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is there any consenting opinion on how much air they need to shift, I presume front need to be powerful to go front to back, not sure about top and (possibly) side panel. I feel Ultrakaze maybe overkill, especially as they give my hoover a run for its money noise wise....
> 
> Cheers
> Liam
Click to expand...

Top intake fans. Two 25mm will do. 38mm fans reduce the clearance, so you lose the benefit of having both fans add to the general airflow, not interfering with the heatsink's airflow. Unless you put a partition over the heatsink to in effect lower the ceiling. Then a single 38mm fan would tend to produce a wind tunnel. Instead, two 140x25mm top intake fans would add to the airflow fairly quietly.

No consensus on the amount of air. It's whatever noise you find tolerable.

All the UK's are the same fan, but set to different speeds. I prefer the UK2K, since it is not pushing its envelope. Since you have UK3K's, you might consider getting a nice fat resistor and putting it in the adapter that came with the fan.

You should always lubricate sleeve bearing fans before you put them into service. I got an extra 15% speed when I lubricated my UK1K -- it was dry in the well.


----------



## SuperDeo

Hey Guys









OK i went against all the rules on airflow and now i'm regretting it









i did this instead

200mm at top exhaust
140mm side panel intake
120mm front intake (x3)
120mm push pull on cooler (x2)
120mm on back exhaust
it looks like this


so my problem is my temps are now 50c on idle







and with my old setup it was 40c idle
this the old setup


so now i don't know what to do Please help me guys








PS i only have enough thermal paste to re apply about 3 times







i'm running low since i'm not smart and used most of it all at once XD i thought i wasn't using enough so i added more thermal paste but that didn't help.

and does it help that its 95 degrees in my house on my old setup it was winter so i don't know
air flow is not my specialty no more XD


----------



## ivanlabrie

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuperDeo*
> 
> Hey Guys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OK i went against all the rules on airflow and now i'm regretting it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i did this instead
> 
> 200mm at top exhaust
> 140mm side panel intake
> 120mm front intake (x3)
> 120mm push pull on cooler (x2)
> 120mm on back exhaust
> it looks like this
> 
> so my problem is my temps are now 50c on idle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and with my old setup it was 40c idle
> this the old setup
> 
> so now i don't know what to do Please help me guys
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS i only have enough thermal paste to re apply about 3 times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'm running low since i'm not smart and used most of it all at once XD i thought i wasn't using enough so i added more thermal paste but that didn't help.
> and does it help that its 95 degrees in my house on my old setup it was winter so i don't know
> air flow is not my specialty no more XD






50c idle???
What cpu are you running? Sounds like a bad mount. Even my 4ghz P4 Prescott idled at 40c lol


----------



## airdeano

your roof mounted 200 is killing the CPU cooler flow.
turn it off and retest.

airdeano


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *airdeano*
> 
> your roof mounted 200 is killing the CPU cooler flow.
> turn it off and retest.
> 
> airdeano


Agree. Test it that way. Then put some paper over the top so the case has no air going in or out at the top. Test it that way. Don't know if it will make a difference, but we will learn something.


----------



## SuperDeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> 50c idle???
> What cpu are you running? Sounds like a bad mount. Even my 4ghz P4 Prescott idled at 40c lol


its a Intel E8400 duo core something like that but with the stock heat sink i was at 70c idle but i would remove it to clean it and never re applied thermal paste i never knew you had to do that XD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *airdeano*
> 
> your roof mounted 200 is killing the CPU cooler flow.
> turn it off and retest.
> airdeano


Thanks would you recommend a different fan positioning ?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Agree. Test it that way. Then put some paper over the top so the case has no air going in or out at the top. Test it that way. Don't know if it will make a difference, but we will learn something.


k i got it down to 46c idle i put a paper on top with a heavy box to keep it from moving







and unplugged it

hmm i just want it back to 40c







and i'm low on thermal paste, i cant do any cutting shop is closed till Monday,

i was thinking this guys placing the cooler to blow air out the top ??? and i also think push pull is at fault here since before i did not have that and both fans are the same using a cpu splinter


----------



## ehume

Blow air out the top? What you want to do is give your cooler the coolest air you can find. Air from below has already been heated by your motherboard. Try to feed your heatsink something else.

Best Thermal Paste I know is Gelid solutions GC Extreme. Get it here, with free shipping. SVC ships fast, too.


----------



## SuperDeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Blow air out the top? What you want to do is give your cooler the coolest air you can find. Air from below has already been heated by you motherboard. Try to feed your heatsink something else.
> 
> Best Thermal Paste I know is Gelid solutions GC Extreme. Get it here, with free shipping. SVC ships fast, too.


Thinking...


----------



## ivanlabrie

Don't think twice!









Ehume gave you some solid advice.
I use a top down cooler, and personally, I find the top intake too disruptive to my front to back flow, so I use 2 front intakes (one in the 5.25 bays and the regular front position fan) and a mid case fan. I've removed the rear exhaust fan and grill, and the pci slot covers too.
Having a bigger 140mm fan with big cfm helps as a mid case fan, perhaps a top intake wouldn't hurt if you have 4 fans but I currently have 3 at my disposal.


----------



## SuperDeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Don't think twice!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ehume gave you some solid advice.
> I use a top down cooler, and personally, I find the top intake too disruptive to my front to back flow, so I use 2 front intakes (one in the 5.25 bays and the regular front position fan) and a mid case fan. I've removed the rear exhaust fan and grill, and the pci slot covers too.
> Having a bigger 140mm fan with big cfm helps as a mid case fan, perhaps a top intake wouldn't hurt if you have 4 fans but I currently have 3 at my disposal.


k thanks ill see what i can do
i just thought that the more fans i can get than the better


----------



## airdeano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SuperDeo*
> 
> Thinking...


because of the distance from the roof to the cooler stack is short in distance the roof fan is literally
blowing the good air back into the case. disable roof fan, plug the roof vents and allow the forward
draw of air to reach the cooler stack undisturbed. to be honest, that rear exhaust fan can prolly be
diabled as well, unless it is the same fan as on the cooler stack. if not, disable and remove rear
exhaust fan (and for ultimate help, cut/nibble the fan grill out)

what fans are on the front? they look like CM LED low flow units. put a pair of quite max-cfm fan in
the lower front positions.

remove unused pci slot covers to allow the GPU area to vent rearward not upward.
and disable the side-panel fan after all is done and retest. im thinking the panel fan is diverting
upward more so than straight onto the GPU card. just another thought.

airdeano


----------



## kpo6969

Looks like you have a HAF 912 which is what I have also. This is what I have set up:
1 x 200mm front intake
1 x 200mm top intake
1 x 140mm side intake (cut-out the mesh, 140mm Silverstone fan filter mounted outside side of case
1 x 120mm mid-case front-to-back flow
cpu 120mm front-to-back
no exhaust, cut-out the mesh where the fan would be
removed pci slot covers


----------



## SuperDeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kpo6969*
> 
> Looks like you have a HAF 912 which is what I have also. This is what I have set up:
> 1 x 200mm front intake
> 1 x 200mm top intake
> 1 x 140mm side intake (cut-out the mesh, 140mm Silverstone fan filter mounted outside side of case
> 1 x 120mm mid-case front-to-back flow
> cpu 120mm front-to-back
> no exhaust, cut-out the mesh where the fan would be
> removed pci slot covers


k thanks and you are correct

Thanks Guys








i have been suggested the same by many so the only thing i need to do is get over my stubborn self and do some cutting and light modding







but i can do it







maybe XD when i get a day off ill do something with all the help and advice given to me


----------



## ehume

Best modding tool is a good nibbler. The link shows you how to use it. A nibbler does not distort metal the way side cutters and tin snips do. It also doesn't produce any dust.

If you go with a top intake, it should be gentle so it will contribute to front-back flow, not disrupt it. OTOH if you cannot put an intake fan in your 5.25 bay a top intake may be the only way you can get cool air to your cpu heatsink.


----------



## solsamurai

+1 on the Nibbler tool. Works really well.


----------



## SuperDeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Best modding tool is a good nibbler. The link shows you how to use it. A nibbler does not distort metal the way side cutters and tin snips do. It also doesn't produce any dust.
> 
> If you go with a top intake, it should be gentle so it will contribute to front-back flow, not disrupt it. OTOH if you cannot put an intake fan in your 5.25 bay a top intake may be the only way you can get cool air to your cpu heatsink.


that tool is crazy







looks really easy first ill look for one at the store if there too much ill order it







thanks for all the help


----------



## carinae

Hello, does having a front 120mm fan in the drive bay and 140mm fan inside the drive bay work? It's a 6-drive case so its 120mm on the bottom half and 140mm on the top (inside) half. Also, has anyone tried using filters for air conditioners? The one that's more of a fabric rather than [wire] mesh. My temps are the same as when I had everything at full speed and using wire mesh filter(that came with the case) for front intake.

I already removed the pci covers. Thanks for the suggestions.


----------



## SuperDeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carinae*





Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carinae*
> 
> Hello, does having a front 120mm fan in the drive bay and 140mm fan inside the drive bay work? It's a 6-drive case so its 120mm on the bottom half and 140mm on the top (inside) half. Also, has anyone tried using filters for air conditioners? The one that's more of a fabric rather than [wire] mesh. My temps are the same as when I had everything at full speed and using wire mesh filter(that came with the case) for front intake.
> I already removed the pci covers. Thanks for the suggestions.






whats the cloth for ? looks really thick for air to get by ?

you got a cool setup try this

pretend its your case XD
but yea cut rear mesh and put rear fan on your cpu cooler and cover back top if it has one than your good to go

but wait for more advice before proceeding


----------



## carinae

@SuperDeo - Yes, I have doubts with the AC filter. Before I go back to wire mesh filters, I'm going to see if compressed air can works for me. Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## Hackcremo

Guys..what is the best fan configuration for CM 690 II Advanced..?? which fan must set for intake and exhaust..help please..


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hackcremo*
> 
> Guys..what is the best fan configuration for CM 690 II Advanced..?? which fan must set for intake and exhaust..help please..


This is hard to answer. For my CM 690II I went for Pure Positive Pressure, meaning I do not have any fans acting as exhaust. Starting with the top(roof) and working down:
1. Block off the rear most fan slot on the roof.
2. Place a fan as Intake in the forward roof slot
3. Remove Rear most fan(back panel) and trim out the fan grill if at all possible.
4. Front fan placed as intake, Place fan on back of HDD cage blowing to the back of the case(at the GPU's)
5. On the side panel, leave the top fan slot empty(blocking it off is better) and use the lower fan slot for an intake fan.
6. Remove or replace the Case PCI slot cover's with Vented one's(you can take a rotary to the stock ones)
7. Use 1 fan on the floor of the case, in the rear most slot. The forward floor fan spot should be empty or have HDD rack pending on your set up.
8. Make sure your PSU is in the "flipped" position, So that the PSU's fan is pulling air from the floor PSU vent.
9. Last Step. If using a Tower CPU cooler, make sure that it is in the "Normal" orientation. Meaning that the CPU cooler pulls air from the front of the case and blow's air to the back of the case.

This is a copy paste of my case flow set up. There are a few things that will make this set up null. First off, your GPU's cooler's.This kind of set up works best with GPU's that vent heat out the back of the case, rather the one's that exhaust inside the case. Using a non tower cooler will also require some minor adjustments. Most important each rig is different, while it is common that a Pure Positive Pressure/Positive Pressure case will cool better and have less dust getting cought in heat sinks and settling on parts it might not be optimum for your specific rig. Feel free to try out different things


----------



## MrPerforations

hello,
i have one of the most expensive case around,but its beaten by a cheap case because of the side fan.my other case has a 250mm side fan and it makes a big difference in temps.
if your air cooling a case with a side fan is best in my opinion.


----------



## chinesethunda

cosmos has great airflow, you just have to optimize it, but i understand what you're talking about. my cheap cm elite350 beats with 1 case fan beats my phantom with like 11 >_>


----------



## Hackcremo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing*
> 
> This is hard to answer. For my CM 690II I went for Pure Positive Pressure, meaning I do not have any fans acting as exhaust. Starting with the top(roof) and working down:
> 1. Block off the rear most fan slot on the roof.
> 2. Place a fan as Intake in the forward roof slot
> 3. Remove Rear most fan(back panel) and trim out the fan grill if at all possible.
> 4. Front fan placed as intake, Place fan on back of HDD cage blowing to the back of the case(at the GPU's)
> 5. On the side panel, leave the top fan slot empty(blocking it off is better) and use the lower fan slot for an intake fan.
> 6. Remove or replace the Case PCI slot cover's with Vented one's(you can take a rotary to the stock ones)
> 7. Use 1 fan on the floor of the case, in the rear most slot. The forward floor fan spot should be empty or have HDD rack pending on your set up.
> 8. Make sure your PSU is in the "flipped" position, So that the PSU's fan is pulling air from the floor PSU vent.
> 9. Last Step. If using a Tower CPU cooler, make sure that it is in the "Normal" orientation. Meaning that the CPU cooler pulls air from the front of the case and blow's air to the back of the case.
> This is a copy paste of my case flow set up. There are a few things that will make this set up null. First off, your GPU's cooler's.This kind of set up works best with GPU's that vent heat out the back of the case, rather the one's that exhaust inside the case. Using a non tower cooler will also require some minor adjustments. Most important each rig is different, while it is common that a Pure Positive Pressure/Positive Pressure case will cool better and have less dust getting cought in heat sinks and settling on parts it might not be optimum for your specific rig. Feel free to try out different things


so far right now i got near silent pc with
2 artic f12 on the hyper 212+,
1 f12 on the side intake
1 phobya 12cm fan on the front 5.25inch drive bays intake..
temps around 78-80'c with 40db sound level operation..


----------



## chinesethunda

your temps are horrendous. 70-80C normal use?
try reseating your heat sink at this point


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hackcremo*
> 
> so far right now i got near silent pc with
> 2 artic f12 on the hyper 212+,
> 1 f12 on the side intake
> 1 phobya 12cm fan on the front 5.25inch drive bays intake..
> temps around 78-80'c with 40db sound level operation..


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> your temps are horrendous. 70-80C normal use?
> try reseating your heat sink at this point


I gatta agree with ChineseThunda on this one. running 78-80c with 40db noise level screams something is wrong. What is your ambient/room temp?

My rig is pretty silent except the fact that I have two San Ace 1011's hanging off my silver arrow. I keep them turned down so my noise level is around 25-28db and temps on my i5 hardly go past 60's(c). When I turn up my San Ace's to full power they crank out 100CFM @39 DBA and temps never reach past 55c. This is at 4.7Ghz and IIRC Vcore is somewhere around 1.390 or so, My living room is a brisk 80f/26c.


----------



## Hackcremo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> your temps are horrendous. 70-80C normal use?
> try reseating your heat sink at this point


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing*
> 
> I gatta agree with ChineseThunda on this one. running 78-80c with 40db noise level screams something is wrong. What is your ambient/room temp?
> My rig is pretty silent except the fact that I have two San Ace 1011's hanging off my silver arrow. I keep them turned down so my noise level is around 25-28db and temps on my i5 hardly go past 60's(c). When I turn up my San Ace's to full power they crank out 100CFM @39 DBA and temps never reach past 55c. This is at 4.7Ghz and IIRC Vcore is somewhere around 1.390 or so, My living room is a brisk 80f/26c.


this temp while i stress my system with [email protected] program..
the cpu hover around 80'c while 2 of my gtx 460 at 71'c and 63'c respectively running on the same program..
so all three component are running at 100%..
my ambient around 30'c..
last time when i had 2500K i also get this kind of temp..
wow! 25-28, nice sound level..


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hackcremo*
> 
> this temp while i stress my system with [email protected] program..
> the cpu hover around 80'c while 2 of my gtx 460 at 71'c and 63'c respectively running on the same program..
> so all three component are running at 100%..
> my ambient around 30'c..
> last time when i had 2500K i also get this kind of temp..
> wow! 25-28, nice sound level..


Man, that's way too high for folding!
Tweak your voltages or try to tweak some more with your cooling setup.
Try to keep the cpu temps below 70c if possible, that's a not too safe temp zone.


----------



## KhaoticKomputing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hackcremo*
> 
> this temp while i stress my system with [email protected] program..
> the cpu hover around 80'c while 2 of my gtx 460 at 71'c and 63'c respectively running on the same program..
> so all three component are running at 100%..
> my ambient around 30'c..
> last time when i had 2500K i also get this kind of temp..
> wow! 25-28, nice sound level..


ok, so its really hot in your house/room. Your GPU's temps are fine and dandy. Keep them under 85-90c if at all possible, all though according to Nvidia the 460's can handle 104c maximum temp. You should adjust your voltage's or try to re seat your cooler on the CPU.

Thanks, It would be lower but my GPU(Sapphire TOXIC) screams like an all Female Banshee Death Metal band lulz. Its going to get some water cooling soon. All I want to hear is the slight bubbly watery noise for the loop.


----------



## Hackcremo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KhaoticKomputing*
> 
> ok, so its really hot in your house/room. Your GPU's temps are fine and dandy. Keep them under 85-90c if at all possible, all though according to Nvidia the 460's can handle 104c maximum temp. You should adjust your voltage's or try to re seat your cooler on the CPU.
> Thanks, It would be lower but my GPU(Sapphire TOXIC) screams like an all Female Banshee Death Metal band lulz. Its going to get some water cooling soon. All I want to hear is the slight bubbly watery noise for the loop.


so far i can lower my sound level to 30db at lowest...later on i will adjust my overclock to 4.5 and notch down the vcore to lower the cpu temp..i think on watercooling also but still have no fund..


----------



## chinesethunda

just lower your voltages and lower your clock if your ambient is so high


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> just lower your voltages and lower your clock if your ambient is so high


+1. Summer months = back off on your OC unless your rig's under water or you can afford to A/C.


----------



## carinae

hi again, has anyone experimented on putting an intake fan in front of the 5" bays VS inside(back) of the bay? Do you think it would matter? I just want a little insight before I put some serious velcro/foam work for 2x120mm fans. Right now, I have 1x120mm (bottom) front bay then 1x140mm (top) inside bay.


----------



## airdeano

there are many peeps already in tha boat and speeding away. you'll have a puller fan and
then a pusher fan. it seems to create more noise than gain over just one good fan in that
spot. now if you are using 2 500-800rpm fans thatd be different.

airdeano


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *carinae*
> 
> hi again, has anyone experimented on putting an intake fan in front of the 5" bays VS inside(back) of the bay? Do you think it would matter? I just want a little insight before I put some serious velcro/foam work for 2x120mm fans. Right now, I have 1x120mm (bottom) front bay then 1x140mm (top) inside bay.


I've always had them positioned up front just behind the mesh and filters. Others have positioned fans farther back. Both have given decent results. I'd say it's more about the airflow you're trying to achieve. For example I don't have a fan in my empty 5.25 bay slots. I have a 140 up top positioned in front of the front Push fan of the Silver Arrow feeding fresh cool air directly into the heatsink. My temps have never gotten high enough for me to consider adding more fans.


----------



## kevindd992002

Is the Antec Big Boy 200mm fan recommended as a replacement for my case (HAF 922) stock 200mm fan (top intake)?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Is the Antec Big Boy 200mm fan recommended as a replacement for my case (HAF 922) stock 200mm fan (top intake)?


I would like to see a comparison of 200mm fans. Anyone know of one?


----------



## arrow0309

Never heard of one like that
There's a new 120mm fan roundup however









It's in italian so you'll have to translate it but it is very comprehensive and some 140mm models are included:

http://www.xtremehardware.com/cooling/air/xtremehardware-presenta-roundup-ventole-2012-201207117270/

XtremeHardware is a good reviewer and there are lots of pics too









And I'm happy to announce you there's a new 140mm beast winner (I'm looking to find one for a lot of time)
Ladies and gentleman's, here it comes the new Prolimatech *VORTEX 14 ALUMINUM*











*What? 13 blades, double ball bearing and 127CFM?*











http://www.xtremehardware.com/images/stories/RoundUp/Ventole_2012/prolimatech/324.jpg
http://www.xtremehardware.com/images/stories/RoundUp/Ventole_2012/prolimatech/328.jpg
http://www.xtremehardware.com/images/stories/RoundUp/Ventole_2012/prolimatech/040.jpg
http://www.xtremehardware.com/images/stories/RoundUp/Ventole_2012/prolimatech/330.jpg


----------



## doyll

Vortex Fan Aluminum Series from their website
http://www.prolimatech.com/en/products/detail.asp?id=1200&page=1


----------



## airdeano

wonder how much product liability they have to keep peeps fingers outta da fan?
and there will be some blood-shed..

airdeano


----------



## kevindd992002

So any thoughts on the Antec Bigboy?


----------



## arrow0309

I'd say, powerful yet loud beastie fan








Here's an older review of it:

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cooling/2009/10/09/whats-the-best-supersize-case-fan/1

You may consider as well the BitFenix Spectre 230mm Fan series, widely agreed by lots of users and Imho much quieter at max rpms


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> I'd say, powerful yet loud beastie fan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's an older review of it:
> http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cooling/2009/10/09/whats-the-best-supersize-case-fan/1
> You may consider as well the BitFenix Spectre 230mm Fan series, widely agreed by lots of users and Imho much quieter at max rpms


But if I remember correctly, the top intake fan shouldn't be "strong", right?


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> But if I remember correctly, the top intake fan shouldn't be "strong", right?


It shouldn't. It would disrupt the airflow and redirect it.


----------



## Celoth

I've been looking for a case with 2x 200 or 230mm fans in the front and a single 5.25 bay, but to no avail. Even made a thread asking for it, but no answers. Google yielded nothing.

The idea is a straight front to back wind-tunnel, but is there something I am missing? Is it a bad idea somehow? Or is it just because manufacturers still think they need to add a ton of 5.25 and HDD bays to all cases. With something like the Icy Dock MB994IPO-3SB in the single 5.25 bay I'd have my storage needs covered just fine. I'd just remove any fan grills and such from the back and let the 2 big fans blow straight through.

To me it seems really weird if none of the manufacturers make a case like this, but again, am I missing something?


----------



## airdeano

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Celoth*
> 
> To me it seems really weird if none of the manufacturers make a case like this, but again, am I missing something?


it is about what the "majority" of the buyers will purchase. right now, gamers are ruling the design and
layout for cases. it'll cycle into something different. like the small form factor cases. they are squeezing
into the limelight now. why not make your own scratchbuilt case? wont know until you try. it might be the
best design since the mouse trap or it might not work and they know that?

use a build log, manufacturers look at the logs and thread interest to gage some interest into development
of new products and now have some feedback into what may or may not come down the production line.

airdeano


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Celoth*
> 
> I've been looking for a case with 2x 200 or 230mm fans in the front and a single 5.25 bay, but to no avail. Even made a thread asking for it, but no answers. Google yielded nothing.
> 
> The idea is a straight front to back wind-tunnel, but is there something I am missing? Is it a bad idea somehow? Or is it just because manufacturers still think they need to add a ton of 5.25 and HDD bays to all cases. With something like the Icy Dock MB994IPO-3SB in the single 5.25 bay I'd have my storage needs covered just fine. I'd just remove any fan grills and such from the back and let the 2 big fans blow straight through.
> 
> To me it seems really weird if none of the manufacturers make a case like this, but again, am I missing something?


They're mostly stuck in the old bottom-front-to-top-back mindset.


----------



## arrow0309

New review of a mid tower case I'm starting to like more and more, the HAF XM:

*Cooler Master HAF XM @ Madshrimps*

How do you guys see this case with two top intake fans? (it lacks of any bottom fan position)



It's a moderate/high ceiling case, totally you can get four 200mm intake fans and one central internal 150-170mm fan, removing the top hdd (half) cage









Another pic of the top position:

http://i.haymarket.net.au/Galleries/20120525034126_IMG_7065.JPG


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> New review of a mid tower case I'm starting to like more and more, the HAF XM:
> 
> *Cooler Master HAF XM @ Madshrimps*
> 
> How do you guys see this case with two top intake fans? (it lacks of any bottom fan position)
> 
> 
> 
> It's a moderate/high ceiling case, totally you can get four 200mm intake fans and one central internal 150-170mm fan, removing the top hdd (half) cage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another pic of the top position:
> 
> http://i.haymarket.net.au/Galleries/20120525034126_IMG_7065.JPG


Excellent case. You can get all-intake by removing your rear grill with a nibbler.

Remove the backplane slot covers.

For 200mm intake fans? Looks sweet.


----------



## adridu59

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Excellent case. You can get all-intake by removing your rear grill with a nibbler.


Case manufacturers should make cases with removable rear grills... (well not only Lian Li and Silverstone which are both pricy







).


----------



## chinesethunda

even a lot of lian li's cases have rear grills, kinda makes me arrrg.
anyways you would think it's cheaper to have no grill than to have one


----------



## ehume

It's the aluminum cases that lack rear "grills." Check out some Silverstones, for example.


----------



## Hoodcom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Someone else will have to tell you the answer to your question. I just want to say that IMO this is an excellent example of a good airflow plan.


Well, over a year, and I actually updated my air-flow plan (Finally) from the previous plan I had posted in this thread, page 15.

Here is the old plan:


So here is the new plan I run: 

This case is a Cooler Master 690 still, but with modifications done by CyberDruid last year, which was the removal of the 120mm fan grill on the rear side of the case. To follow ehume's guide here.

I forgot what brand the 80mm fan on the right grill, that is behind the CPU side of the motherboard, but it's one of those low-profile and low cfm types with low dB levels.

Here's a shot of the opening where the fan grill used to be:



The rubber grommets are still in place, but I suppose I could benefit in removing those?

Here's the right side panel with the 80mm fan:



Then the left side, I had to mount the 140mm fan on the outside of the case due to clearance issues of my CPU cooler.



I'll get some temperature tests done later. I kinda have to re-overclock my system since I reset the BIOS lately. Then compare it to some older temperature tests from back then I had!









Right now I it's a little noisy, mainly because I haven't turned the majority of the fans down in speed for a quieter operation, but I find it to still be quieter than my old build that had two high CFM 80mm fans, boy did those make some noise...

Thank You ehume for this amazing guide, I actually recommend this guide to anyone I see.


----------



## arrow0309

Remove your D14's third fan (P12), it is useless
And so is the right side 80mm fan, remove this one too and your noise level will decrease a bit more


----------



## ohhgourami

Can't tell from the pic, but make sure that 120mm side fan is an exhaust fan. arrow0309 is correct - no need for 3rd fan on NH-D14 and 80mm side fan.


----------



## Siegfried262

Hey guys, could I get your opinions on how I should set this up?

So I'm rebuilding my desktop as a Mini-ITX Gaming Rig in a week or so and I'm set on the Bitfenix Prodigy but I'm not 100% sure how to setup the cooling.



I'll be using a Corsair H60 cooler and a Gigabyte GTX 670 video card which looks like this.



I'll be removing the main drive cage to fit the card and I can remove the optical drive bay as well.

I'll be tossing a Bitfenix Spectre Pro 230mm fan as front intake but I'm not sure how to configure the rest given this case's layout.

Front 230mm intake, 120mm intakes on the top slots and Corsair H60 on the rear slot exhausting out?

Alternatively, if I went with the intel stock cooler, how would I want to configure my setup?

Any advice would be appreciated.


----------



## Hoodcom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Can't tell from the pic, but make sure that 120mm side fan is an exhaust fan. arrow0309 is correct - no need for 3rd fan on NH-D14 and 80mm side fan.


I thought the side 120mm fan was supposed to be intake, from what some of ehume's posts have shown?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hoodcom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Can't tell from the pic, but make sure that 120mm side fan is an exhaust fan. arrow0309 is correct - no need for 3rd fan on NH-D14 and 80mm side fan.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought the side 120mm fan was supposed to be intake, from what some of ehume's posts have shown?
Click to expand...

Try intake and exhaust. There are no right answers here. Just ideas, experiments and results.


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Siegfried262*
> 
> Hey guys, could I get your opinions on how I should set this up?
> So I'm rebuilding my desktop as a Mini-ITX Gaming Rig in a week or so and I'm set on the Bitfenix Prodigy but I'm not 100% sure how to setup the cooling.
> 
> I'll be using a Corsair H60 cooler and a Gigabyte GTX 670 video card which looks like this.
> 
> I'll be removing the main drive cage to fit the card and I can remove the optical drive bay as well.
> I'll be tossing a Bitfenix Spectre Pro 230mm fan as front intake but I'm not sure how to configure the rest given this case's layout.
> Front 230mm intake, 120mm intakes on the top slots and Corsair H60 on the rear slot exhausting out?
> Alternatively, if I went with the intel stock cooler, how would I want to configure my setup?
> Any advice would be appreciated.


to be honest, i think you got the wrong case for air cooling









prodigy is THE go to case for ITX liquid cooling







but as an air cooling case, it's way too big


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> to be honest, i think you got the wrong case for air cooling biggrin.gif


Quote:


> I'll be using a Corsair H60 cooler












You okay psyclum? Not like you to miss the H60


----------



## SirWaWa

in theory if u an ran an air cooled case long enough would the wind erosion erode any rough edges/surfaces thus minimizing wind noise/turbulence? (positive pressure case)


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirWaWa*
> 
> in theory if u an ran an air cooled case long enough would the wind erosion erode any rough edges/surfaces thus minimizing wind noise/turbulence? (positive pressure case)


That would depend on what's being carried by the wind in your house, but theoretically, it's possible.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by SirWaWa View Post
> 
> in theory if u an ran an air cooled case long enough would the wind erosion erode any rough edges/surfaces thus minimizing wind noise/turbulence? (positive pressure case)


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> That would depend on what's being carried by the wind in your house, but theoretically, it's possible.


Would probably work after replacing many eroded fans.. and cooler (aluminum erodes faster than steel) but then id also depends on how long the wind thats to erode you house into dust.


----------



## psyclum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You okay psyclum? Not like you to miss the H60


well... H60 can fit in any case... can easily fit that in a SG05 if you simply wanted a H60... prodigy is more for people who wanted a thick 240mm with push/pull or a 200mm rad. at the very least, he'd have to use a H100 to justify using a prodigy with an ITX.


----------



## doyll

Okay. Now I understand why you post that.


----------



## 161029

Was just looking at some cases earlier for my first build and though the Source 220 would be pretty good. You should be able to fit 3 120mm fans on the front, 2 in the space provided and 1 in the three 5.25 inch bays.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Siegfried262*
> 
> Hey guys, could I get your opinions on how I should set this up?
> So I'm rebuilding my desktop as a Mini-ITX Gaming Rig in a week or so and I'm set on the Bitfenix Prodigy but I'm not 100% sure how to setup the cooling.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be using a Corsair H60 cooler and a Gigabyte GTX 670 video card which looks like this.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be removing the main drive cage to fit the card and I can remove the optical drive bay as well.
> I'll be tossing a Bitfenix Spectre Pro 230mm fan as front intake but I'm not sure how to configure the rest given this case's layout.
> Front 230mm intake, 120mm intakes on the top slots and Corsair H60 on the rear slot exhausting out?
> Alternatively, if I went with the intel stock cooler, how would I want to configure my setup?
> Any advice would be appreciated.


Cut the front and rear mesh with a nibbler tool to increase airflow. It's what I plan to do someday when I get this case for my wife's gaming PC.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Well, I'll be getting two ty140's in a week or so, and already have a cm690II with a 5.25 bay 120mm intake (tricool led), and a rear exhaust 120mm (coolermaster generic 120mm fan)
Cooler is a Silver Arrow with two ty140's atm. Perhaps I'll be getting an extra 120mm fan down the road too (most likely to replace the tricool for noise concerns though)
So that would leave me with two 120mm and four 140mm fans.
What do you guys reccomend?
I've already cut the rear exhaust fan grill and removed pci slot covers btw.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Came up with a new fan layout for my cm690II:
(Still haven't got all the fans...but I made a drawing)



What do you think?


----------



## Syllogistic

Does anyone have any experience with fan layouts using Gigabyte Windforce cards? I'm planning to get a Lian Li A75X case:





You can see from the pics and specs that it has three 140mm intake fans on the front, one 120mm exhaust on the back and space for fans on the top and sides. It's also quite big. The cages won't all be filled -- there will be at this stage 4 x 3.5" drives and 2 x 2.5" SSDs.

I plan to replace the back exhaust fan with a Gentle Typhoon but after that I'm not sure what to do. I'd like to avoid using side fans if possible because the case doesn't come with grilles on the side fan holes, so I'd have to buy them separately. The issue with the Windforce cards is that, as I understand it, they exhaust straight out the side (see this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T33sv9o_lK0). So I'm not sure whether there's any way I can effectively keep them cool and exhaust their air from the case without side fans.

I will be using two Gigabyte GTX 670s with those Windforce coolers in SLI on an Asus Z77V-Pro motherboard with a large air CPU cooler (Noctua D14, Thermalright Silver Arrow/True Spirit or something similar).

I have two other Gentle Typhoons and a few faster Scythe 120mm fans with a fan controller, so I should have more than enough to do whatever I want. Happy to do some simple mods to the case but would prefer not to do anything irreversible -- things like zip-tying some fans to the back of the hard drive cages would be fine if that would be helpful.

EDIT: I should add that I'm open to other suggestions on cases. I have three main criteria: (1) good air flow (for a fully air-cooled system); (2) quiet; and (3) high-quality build with no window but not too expensive (preferably aluminium or full steel). I was originally set on a Silverstone case but, again, my choice of non-reference card came back to bite me on that.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syllogistic*
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with fan layouts using Gigabyte Windforce cards? I'm planning to get a Lian Li A75X case:
> 
> 
> You can see from the pics and specs that it has three 140mm intake fans on the front, one 120mm exhaust on the back and space for fans on the top and sides. It's also quite big. The cages won't all be filled -- there will be at this stage 4 x 3.5" drives and 2 x 2.5" SSDs.
> I plan to replace the back exhaust fan with a Gentle Typhoon but after that I'm not sure what to do. I'd like to avoid using side fans if possible because the case doesn't come with grilles on the side fan holes, so I'd have to buy them separately. The issue with the Windforce cards is that, as I understand it, they exhaust straight out the side (see this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T33sv9o_lK0). So I'm not sure whether there's any way I can effectively keep them cool and exhaust their air from the case without side fans.
> I will be using two Gigabyte GTX 670s with those Windforce coolers in SLI on an Asus Z77V-Pro motherboard with a large air CPU cooler (Noctua D14, Thermalright Silver Arrow/True Spirit or something similar).
> I have two other Gentle Typhoons and a few faster Scythe 120mm fans with a fan controller, so I should have more than enough to do whatever I want. Happy to do some simple mods to the case but would prefer not to do anything irreversible -- things like zip-tying some fans to the back of the hard drive cages would be fine if that would be helpful.


You already bought the two windforce cards? If not I'd reccomend EVGA gtx670 ftw's...Will work much better in sli and exhaust air straight out at the back.

If not, perhaps a side exhaust fan? Top intakes and a tower cooler with the wind tunnel layout?
Not really sure...hope Ehume has some time to reply to us both.


----------



## Syllogistic

I've already got one of them and was planning to buy another. I guess I could sell the one I have and buy two reference cards, but the EVGAs are very expensive in Aus (at least 25% more than the Windforce) and I was hoping for a fairly quiet and cool build, hence the big case and the Windforce cards.

Side exhaust may be necessary, as you say, but it would be great to hear any other ideas.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syllogistic*
> 
> I've already got one of them and was planning to buy another. I guess I could sell the one I have and buy two reference cards, but the EVGAs are very expensive in Aus (at least 25% more than the Windforce) and I was hoping for a fairly quiet and cool build, hence the big case and the Windforce cards.
> Side exhaust may be necessary, as you say, but it would be great to hear any other ideas.


Bottom intake and side exhaust sound solid for windforce card in the bottom. Front intakes in that case should do really good at moving the stale air trough the back if you remove the pci slots.
You running multi monitor?
Single 670 can handle almost anything, except 120hz/3d @ 1080p :/

If I can't get an EVGA card I'd go for Gigabyte as my second favorite brand...better customer service than Asus and awesome products too.


----------



## Syllogistic

Unfortunately that case also doesn't have a bottom intake. I added to my original post that I'm not absolutely set on that case, but I do want something with high build quality, with a fairly minimalist look and that is quiet and has good air flow. I really like the look of the Lian Li cases but I know they're not the best in terms of air flow.

I know a single 670 is great but I will be doing a bit of 3D, I like using high levels of AA and I'm trying to be a bit future-proof. I've budgeted for the SLI 670s this year and am hoping that with a bit of an overclock they'll last me a couple of years.


----------



## ivanlabrie

And what about a gtx690? I've seen a discounted one (evga ref model) for 800usd, which is a really good deal.
It would solve your airflow issues and would work brilliantly with your case.
That Lian Li case is just perfect for air cooling btw.


----------



## Syllogistic

Honestly, if I could get a GTX 690 for that price here I would sell the GTX 670 and buy the 690 in a heartbeat. But the cheapest I've seen it here is $1,099, and I can get the GTX 670s for $419 each. So it's almost $300 difference for pretty similar performance (especially if the 670s are overclocked). Take into account the loss from selling my current 670 and it's just not worth it unless I find a 690 at a big discount.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syllogistic*
> 
> Honestly, if I could get a GTX 690 for that price here I would sell the GTX 670 and buy the 690 in a heartbeat. But the cheapest I've seen it here is $1,099, and I can get the GTX 670s for $419 each. So it's almost $300 difference for pretty similar performance (especially if the 670s are overclocked). Take into account the loss from selling my current 670 and it's just not worth it unless I find a 690 at a big discount.


You can order ir from the US and have it shipped...don't know how bad import taxes are there.
Forgot you were in Au...sorry man.
I'm in Argentina btw xD


----------



## solsamurai

I like that case but would have to rotate or cut in half the HDD cage. It's blocking way too much air by default.


----------



## Syllogistic

I can't work out whether any part of the hard drive bay is removable or whether those large side panels on the hard drive slots can be taken off. It doesn't look like it from the pics. That's what I mean -- I really like Lian Li cases for their looks but they don't really seem to be designed for air flow. I chose this one because I thought the larger size would at least give me more options and might be inherently cooler. But if someone can recommend something that looks similar, has similarly high build quality but has better air flow for a reasonable price, I'd love to see it. The case is really the last thing in my build that I'm not sure about apart from the CPU cooler.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Ehume highly praised one of the older full towers by Lian Li, for it's exceptional airflow design. Look it up in this same thread...


----------



## Syllogistic

I saw that in the OP, the PC-90. Its advantage and disadvantage seems to be the unusual hard drive mounting mechanism -- along the sides rather than at the front. That solves the problem of air flow being impeded by the hard drive cage but makes it more difficult to access everything else, plus reviews I've read say it isn't compatible with large CPU coolers unless you remove one of the hard drive struts completely (which wouldn't leave enough space for my drives).

It also doesn't have any side or bottom fans. In fact I don't think any of Lian Li's cases have bottom fans and very few of them have side fans. So I might have to look at other manufacturers.


----------



## ivanlabrie

I think the case I have is cheap and decent enough for your needs...Or even the Haf Xm.


----------



## Syllogistic

It probably would be (my current PC is in the older version of the CM 690), but I want something with that minimalistic, brushed metal look like the Lian Li and something that will hopefully last a good few builds.

I've had a better look at the A75X, trying to size up the motherboard and work out where the side fan holes actually fit. It looks like the upper hole is where the CPU cooler will be and the lower hole is where the graphics cards will be, so I should only need one side fan (as exhaust). I think I'll also only be using one top fan (intake), since the back hole looks to be directly above where the CPU heatsink will be.

So I think if I leave the front 140mm fans in, zip-tie a couple of 120mm fans to the hard drive cage (and try to remove some of the bars obstructing the air flow), have one 120mm intake fan on the top hole in front of the CPU heatsink, one 120mm exhaust on the back and one 120mm exhaust on the side (using a 140mm->120mm adapter), I should have pretty good airflow without having to buy any more fans. Or maybe I'll just buy a 140mm side fan rather than use an adapter.

So unless anyone has a better suggestion, I think that's what I'll do. Then I just have to decide on a CPU cooler...


----------



## ivanlabrie

You should go for that and test some different fan configs...until you see which cools best with lesser noise you won't know which you prefer.
You could also like Silverstone cases or Bitfenix (which have the best stock fans btw)
Do you want a hefty air cooler? I've seen excellent results with the new Zalman cnps9900df, which is only 154mm tall. Should fit in most towers if that's your concern. Either that one or an all in one water cooler, but those can be a liability.

Good luck!


----------



## Syllogistic

Haha, I think you've replied to me about this in the Silver Arrow thread. I'm happy to have a big air cooler -- that's one reason why I'm planning to get a big case. As I said in that thread, I'm planning to get a 3770K and would like to get it up around 4.5 GHz on air, so I need something decent. I'm just trying to work my way through all these conflicting reviews about the D14, True Spirit 140, Silver Arrow etc. Here in Aus there's basically $20 between each of those coolers: Silver Arrow > D14 > True Spirit 140 (with second fan) by $20 each. Reviews seem to differ on their respective cooling performance, so I don't really know what to do.


----------



## ivanlabrie

The Silver Arrow would be a good bet, specially if it comes with the new ty143 fans...they beat the crap out of Noctua's own.
Just by going with the orange fan Silver Arrow you save some bucks on aftermarket fans for the D14 or TS140.


----------



## doyll

Don't have SA SB-E but have the SA SB-E Extreme fans.. The TY-143 orange and red ones. Really like them even though I can't use them anywhere near their potential. They are save volume (air & sound) up to 1300rpm as TY-140/141 fans. Above 1300rpm they are amazing! At 16-1700rpm they blow themselves over if not mounted to something.







But can't quite get them to hover.









Link to H100 / SA SB-E / SA SB-E Extreme video review
http://www.thermalright.de/CPU+Kuehler/Intel+LGA1155%252F1156/Thermalright/artikel/Thermalright+Silver+Arrow+SB-E+Extreme.html
Jump to 3:40 for results
i7 3820 @4.75GHz
Temperature is delta.

H100 . . . . . . . . 41c 2500rpm. . . . . . . . 55dBA 2
SA SB-E . . . . . . 42c 1000rpm & 1300rpm 38dBA TY-150 & TY-141
SA SB-E Extreme 34c 2500rpm. . . . . . . . 56dBA 2x TY-143

If these specs are true the SA SB-E Extreme is truely top dog in stock form


----------



## chinesethunda

the lian li is a great case, but most of those hard drive cages would have to go, most likely the bottom two if possible, that way you get the most air to your GPU


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Don't have SA SB-E but have the SA SB-E Extreme fans.. The TY-143 orange and red ones. Really like them even though I can't use them anywhere near their potential. They are save volume (air & sound) up to 1300rpm as TY-140/141 fans. Above 1300rpm they are amazing! At 16-1700rpm they blow themselves over if not mounted to something.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But can't quite get them to hover.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Link to H100 / SA SB-E / SA SB-E Extreme video review
> http://www.thermalright.de/CPU+Kuehler/Intel+LGA1155%252F1156/Thermalright/artikel/Thermalright+Silver+Arrow+SB-E+Extreme.html
> Jump to 3:40 for results
> i7 3820 @4.75GHz
> Temperature is delta.
> H100 . . . . . . . . 41c 2500rpm. . . . . . . . 55dBA 2
> SA SB-E . . . . . . 42c 1000rpm & 1300rpm 38dBA TY-150 & TY-141
> SA SB-E Extreme 34c 2500rpm. . . . . . . . 56dBA 2x TY-143
> If these specs are true the SA SB-E Extreme is truely top dog in stock form


QFT!

I want some of those TY143 fans myself so I can use my ty140's as case fans...
That way I can pump up the rpm when I need to bench @ 5.2ghz or perhaps more!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> QFT!
> I want some of those TY143 fans myself so I can use my ty140's as case fans...
> That way I can pump up the rpm when I need to bench @ 5.2ghz or perhaps more!


Exactly!









Could use them for case fans too.. puff it up like a balloon!








My setup now








 

Next is modding case so TY-140 fans fit as front intakes... and maybe even rear exhaust mounted on back instead of inside.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Can you mount the Phanteks the other way around, with the last pull ty143 as exhaust or it doesn't fit?
You could use Ehume's scheme like that. Basically your cooling your cpu with warm 'gpu' air








Doesn't sound too cool, though it looks superb.


----------



## doyll

Well, been crunching for last 38 hours with CPU running 65-100% with temps 30 and 52c and fans 740-1000rpm.







. so just warm.. definitely not hot.








I Can't make it get over 72c even when I unplugged all the fans and left it for 2 hours with sides on crunching as fast as it would crunch.. 2x handbrake running encodes at same time so 95-100% load.. Darn thing just won't get hot!!.








An as image shows GPU is passive cooling so having airflow bottom to top is ideal.









But biggest reasons for vertical are cooler face area/fan versus rear vent size.. 140mm cooler and 120mm vent. And I would have had to put fans in middle back instead of front middle as case is not big enough for 32mm RAM and 140mm fan to fit.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Yeah, it's a great setup. Plus it's just a 5770, nothing too hot per se...
I like they way you set it up and the color scheme








Those ty143 were meant to be lol

EDIT: I want 3 of those


----------



## rayzzr

I am running this setup in my Rosewill Blackhawk case. Top and bottom fans are 140mm, all others are 120mm.

2 -120mm Lepa Casino 1Cs in the front as intake (they blow through the drive cages)
2 -140mm Rosewill Hypoborea fans exhausting up top (should I turn these to intake to increase case pressure???)
1 - 120mm Cooler Master fan that can with the EVO as case exhaust (remove this???)
1 - 140mm Rosewill 4LED case fan on bottom of the case, set to intake
2 - 120mm Gentle Typhoon AP15s mounted push/pull on a CM212EVO (cooler is vertically mounted)
PSU upside down in bottom of case exhausting

Only the top two Hypoboreas and the rear case fan are speed controlled. I need a 3 wire Y cable to split out the AP15s and use voltage control on the mobo to control speed on them.

Now this case has a LOT of mesh, and even the rear slot covers are slotted to allow air to pass out.

Side fan is removed, as it hits the CM212EVO. I may try and horizontally mount the EVO and see if I can put another 120mm fan set to intake on the side door. My concern is that it will block RAM slots in that config.

Also thought about trying to remove part of the drive bay, as I only have an SSD and a 1TB drive mounted, to allow the Lepa Casinos to blow harder into the case, as the drive bay breaks up the stream of air.

As for mounting a fan in the optical drive bays - how? Velcro?

Check out the pic - suggestions welcome


----------



## ivanlabrie

I use that sticky foam you use to seal off doors...put the fan in there and surround it with foam. It should stay there, pressure mounted, and thus avoiding vibration noises.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rayzzr*
> 
> I am running this setup in my Rosewill Blackhawk case. Top and bottom fans are 140mm, all others are 120mm.
> 2 -120mm Lepa Casino 1Cs in the front as intake (they blow through the drive cages)
> 2 -140mm Rosewill Hypoborea fans exhausting up top (should I turn these to intake to increase case pressure???)
> 1 - 120mm Cooler Master fan that can with the EVO as case exhaust (remove this???)
> 1 - 140mm Rosewill 4LED case fan on bottom of the case, set to intake
> 2 - 120mm Gentle Typhoon AP15s mounted push/pull on a CM212EVO (cooler is vertically mounted)
> PSU upside down in bottom of case exhausting
> Only the top two Hypoboreas and the rear case fan are speed controlled. I need a 3 wire Y cable to split out the AP15s and use voltage control on the mobo to control speed on them.
> Now this case has a LOT of mesh, and even the rear slot covers are slotted to allow air to pass out.
> Side fan is removed, as it hits the CM212EVO. I may try and horizontally mount the EVO and see if I can put another 120mm fan set to intake on the side door. My concern is that it will block RAM slots in that config.
> Also thought about trying to remove part of the drive bay, as I only have an SSD and a 1TB drive mounted, to allow the Lepa Casinos to blow harder into the case, as the drive bay breaks up the stream of air.
> As for mounting a fan in the optical drive bays - how? Velcro?
> Check out the pic - suggestions welcome


*2x 120mm front intake; as you say, HDD cage blocks over half of potential airflow. Unfortunately only one side is designed to come off so would require major modding to get good airflow.








*2x 140mm top; case is so full of holes now exhaust fans needed.







I suggest unplug and/or remove.
*Intake fan in optical bay as ivanlabrie said; or fan can be wedged with most any foam you have laying around.
*Drawing shows PSU fan as exhaust; Unless you reversed your PSU fan it's intake and exhaust is out back of PSU








*Drawing shows cooler horizontal and you say its vertical??

After reading a couple case review.
Basic design has so much potential and they did a complete fustercluck with the HDD cage design, bottom filter, 2x 120mm front & 1x 140mm bottom intakes with 2x 140mm top & 120mm back exhaust.







Is that so case can suck in dust through all the extra holes.







Could hardly design a HDD cage to be more restrictive of intake airflow.


----------



## rayzzr

Good news is that HDD cage comes out in three pieces, but the front plate still blocks. The top fans were already set to intake - I installed them in a rush recently and did not think that was the case. I removed the CM212EVO, put a slight bit more TIM on and put it back on, realizing that the mount had more play in it the previous mounting - I think I had the top 'X bracket' was 90 degrees off - it held, but did not pull the heat plate as close to the CPU and the cooler could move around more. Temps are about 5-7C lower now, so good deal. I think I am done for the time being.

BTW, I did pull the rear CM 120mm fan, as the AP15s were more than adequate to exhaust the air.

Hoping with the amount of air I'm pumping in it will be enough velocity to keep the dust blown out....


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Came up with a new fan layout for my cm690II:
> (Still haven't got all the fans...but I made a drawing)
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think?


Sorry I've been away for a few days. I have to chuckle because you have essentially replicated the setup in my own case. It sounds as if you have removed your rear grill -- excellent! Removing the slot covers, your 690-II should give you quiet cooling.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syllogistic*
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with fan layouts using Gigabyte Windforce cards? I'm planning to get a Lian Li A75X case:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can see from the pics and specs that it has three 140mm intake fans on the front, one 120mm exhaust on the back and space for fans on the top and sides. It's also quite big. The cages won't all be filled -- there will be at this stage 4 x 3.5" drives and 2 x 2.5" SSDs.
> 
> I plan to replace the back exhaust fan with a Gentle Typhoon but after that I'm not sure what to do. I'd like to avoid using side fans if possible because the case doesn't come with grilles on the side fan holes, so I'd have to buy them separately. The issue with the Windforce cards is that, as I understand it, they exhaust straight out the side (see this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T33sv9o_lK0). So I'm not sure whether there's any way I can effectively keep them cool and exhaust their air from the case without side fans.
> 
> I will be using two Gigabyte GTX 670s with those Windforce coolers in SLI on an Asus Z77V-Pro motherboard with a large air CPU cooler (Noctua D14, Thermalright Silver Arrow/True Spirit or something similar).
> 
> I have two other Gentle Typhoons and a few faster Scythe 120mm fans with a fan controller, so I should have more than enough to do whatever I want. Happy to do some simple mods to the case but would prefer not to do anything irreversible -- things like zip-tying some fans to the back of the hard drive cages would be fine if that would be helpful.
> 
> EDIT: I should add that I'm open to other suggestions on cases. I have three main criteria: (1) good air flow (for a fully air-cooled system); (2) quiet; and (3) high-quality build with no window but not too expensive (preferably aluminium or full steel). I was originally set on a Silverstone case but, again, my choice of non-reference card came back to bite me on that.


OK. Just read you post. You can get that HD cages out of there. But why? They've clearly gone to some lengths to aereate their HD cages -- much better than most. With three 140mm fan in front, the worst I can say about your choice in cases is that you may wish to replace those fans -- but only after you have listened to them. Lian Li sells pretty bad fans, in my experience.

As for the back -- you're getting a Lian Li aluminum case! Take out that rear exhaust fan and let your case breathe. If you really want a finger guard back there, go to Pep Boys and get four nylon #8 nut, and use fan screws and those nuts to hold your finger guard. Like this:



BTW -- Eleven backplane slots?


----------



## Syllogistic

Brilliant, thanks for the advice! I've settled on that case now -- it obviously has way more hard drive and backplane slots than I'll probably ever need but I love the look of it and it's pretty cheap for a full aluminium case.

I'll see what the stock fans are like at the front. I have four spare Gentle Typhoons to locate around the case if necessary, so I was going to either replace the front fans with three of them or leave the front fans in and tie a few of the GTs to the back of the hard drive cage. This will depend on the amount of noise generated and the airflow of the stock Lian Li fans (I've seen conflicting reports depending on what model fan is included). I'll try it with the hard drive cages left as they are to start with and see how it goes -- as you say, they look pretty well aerated.

I'll take your advice and try without the rear fan to start with and just remount the fan grill. I've also managed to track down a 140mm Lian Li mesh grill for one of the side holes so I'll try an exhausting fan opposite the video cards to see if that makes a difference (since I think the Windforce cards mainly exhaust outwards).

I'm also planning to put a GT as an intake on the top in front of the CPU heatsink, similar to that CM 690 II diagram.

Will be a few more weeks before I can get it all set up but I'll try to take some pics and do some temperature tests when I do so others with similar cases might have a better idea about the best fan configuration.

Thanks again!


----------



## Conspiracy

so it is a good idea to put maybe one fan in the top of my case as an intake? my case has space for 2 top fans one in front of cpu and one directly over it. didnt know if that was actually useful since im not doing an heavy overclock. i am planning on getting a twin pack of the corsair sp120 soon to replace the stock CM 212 fan and my case's stock rear fan. didnt know if i should move the stock case fan or just not put it back in after replacing it


----------



## ehume

OP has to test various configurations to see what works best. In a case this size you can't get away with a forward top intake and a blocked rear top fan position. With high ceiling cases you use two top fans, either both intake or both exhaust. It is also my preference to remove the backplane slot covers and use a side panel intake fan.

In the end, OP must experiment on his system and find out what cools best:

1. Top intake, side intake.

2. Top exhaust, side intake.

3. Top intake, side exhaust.

4. Top exhaust, side exhaust.

With three 140mm front intakes you will have a lot of air coming in. Lian Li uses excellent fan filters.

Have fun with it. You will certainly never run out of new things to try in a case like that.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Sorry I've been away for a few days. I have to chuckle because you have essentially replicated the setup in my own case. It sounds as if you have removed your rear grill -- excellent! Removing the slot covers, your 690-II should give you quiet cooling.


Thanks! At least my nasty paint skills gave you a laugh or two








I think it'll work great, my case is already dead silent as is, even with the weak CM 120mm stock fan in the 5.25" filtered intake (I use custom AC filters, great quality low restriction)
Can't wait for the mail guy to stop by. I'm waiting for my Ty140's (ordered two of them), my gtx-670 ftw and my Shimian qh270 lite.
Should be an exciting week, this and maybe the next one too.


----------



## chinesethunda

i think ehume has suggested everything else lol, i would like to comment that adding a bottom intake hasn't really affected my performance at all tbh, unless you had a rad there i don't think it makes too much of a difference


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chinesethunda*
> 
> i think ehume has suggested everything else lol, i would like to comment that adding a bottom intake hasn't really affected my performance at all tbh, unless you had a rad there i don't think it makes too much of a difference


I concur.


----------



## killerfromsky

How about the top fan on my Lian Li PC-V600FX? It has 2x 120mm fans in front as intakes and 1x 140mm fan on top as an exhaust?
No rear fan or opening?

Think the 2x 120mm fans are good enough to still keep a positive pressure on the top exhaust?
Or maybe I could use the Corsair Air series SP120's (quiet) as front intakes.

I don't feel like cutting a rear fan hole and I'm unsure how much dust would enter from a top intake even with positive pressure.

Regards,
Thomas


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killerfromsky*
> 
> How about the top fan on my Lian Li PC-V600FX? It has 2x 120mm fans in front as intakes and 1x 140mm fan on top as an exhaust?
> No rear fan or opening?
> 
> Think the 2x 120mm fans are good enough to still keep a positive pressure on the top exhaust?
> Or maybe I could use the Corsair Air series SP120's (quiet) as front intakes.
> 
> I don't feel like cutting a rear fan hole and I'm unsure how much dust would enter from a top intake even with positive pressure.
> 
> Regards,
> Thomas


I'd let it be.


----------



## 161029

Thought it was worth mentioning the Zalman Z11.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811235034

A single 140mm intake at the front but it has five 5.25inch bays so you can fit in another 140mm fan and an optical drive or some other 5.25 inch bay device. If you really feel the need, there are two 80mm side intakes to add more air into the wind tunnel created by the front fan (fans if you install a 140mm in the 5.25 inch bays). It can fit two 140mm top fans. I believe the top fan mount closer to the front blows right over the RAM so it won't blow right into your heatsink.


----------



## 161029

Found another case; the Lian Li PC-7H.

http://lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product06.php?pr_index=631&cl_index=1&sc_index=25&ss_index=62
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112389

Looks like Lian-Li's version of the Fractal Design Arc Midi (except with 3 x 5.25 inch bays). Has two 140mm front fan mounts, what seems like two 140mm top fan mounts, and a removable fan grill in the back.







Price is around $20 more than the Fractal Design Arc Midi when both are not on sale.


----------



## killerfromsky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Found another case; the Lian Li PC-7H.
> http://lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product06.php?pr_index=631&cl_index=1&sc_index=25&ss_index=62
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112389
> Looks like Lian-Li's version of the Fractal Design Arc Midi (except with 3 x 5.25 inch bays). Has two 140mm front fan mounts, what seems like two 140mm top fan mounts, and a removable fan grill in the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Price is around $20 more than the Fractal Design Arc Midi when both are not on sale.


You can't really compare a Lian Li with a Fractal IMO...
For example; the fractal arc has an aliminium looking plastic front plate, while the lian li is full aliminium.
I've just received my first lian li, the pc-v600fx, and it's the best money I've ever spent on a computer part. (Even at 240 eu)

But yes, the design looks like the arc, and they nailed the pricing for a more mainstream public.

Only thing I hate about that new case is this top part:


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killerfromsky*
> 
> You can't really compare a Lian Li with a Fractal IMO...
> For example; the fractal arc has an aliminium looking plastic front plate, while the lian li is full aliminium.
> I've just received my first lian li, the pc-v600fx, and it's the best money I've ever spent on a computer part. (Even at 240 eu)
> But yes, the design looks like the arc, and they nailed the pricing for a more mainstream public.
> Only thing I hate about that new case is this top part:
> *snip*


I'm not really comparing. I'm just saying that they're similar and some small differences. Those difference are obvious.

The top part is optional IIRC.

I actually prefer the looks of the Arc Midi though. I don't know why. Maybe the top?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *killerfromsky*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Found another case; the Lian Li PC-7H.
> http://lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product06.php?pr_index=631&cl_index=1&sc_index=25&ss_index=62
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112389
> Looks like Lian-Li's version of the Fractal Design Arc Midi (except with 3 x 5.25 inch bays). Has two 140mm front fan mounts, what seems like two 140mm top fan mounts, and a removable fan grill in the back.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Price is around $20 more than the Fractal Design Arc Midi when both are not on sale.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't really compare a Lian Li with a Fractal IMO...
> For example; the fractal arc has an aliminium looking plastic front plate, while the lian li is full aliminium.
> I've just received my first lian li, the pc-v600fx, and it's the best money I've ever spent on a computer part. (Even at 240 eu)
> 
> But yes, the design looks like the arc, and they nailed the pricing for a more mainstream public.
> 
> Only thing I hate about that new case is this top part:
Click to expand...

That is an accessory. The case looks like this:



(from the Lian Li product page).

I got my daughter a PC-7FN a couple of years ago. It and the PC-7Hetc. are variations on the PC-7 master chassis. Aside from the fact that I had to remove the top of the case to get the EPS12V plug to the motherboard, it was a delightful case to work in. The fact that the PC-7Hetc. comes with two front 140mm fans is good for airflow. You can remove the exhaust fan. There is no grill:



The PC-7Hetc. looks to be a nice case with lots of options -- including that top "fan air duct," the 7H-1.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Looks nice, I also found another one at ocf. Looks good, but may need some modding.
Nanoxia Deep Silence 1: review here.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Looks nice, I also found another one at ocf. Looks good, but may need some modding.
> Nanoxia Deep Silence 1: review here.


Thanks for the link. It does look nice, but as I said in the review, it's not really a case for air cooling. It's really a case for . . . deep silence.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Looks nice, I also found another one at ocf. Looks good, but may need some modding.
> Nanoxia Deep Silence 1: review here.


I feel strange for thinking of a refrigerator after seeing how the front panel is split into two panels that open up.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Looks nice, I also found another one at ocf. Looks good, but may need some modding.
> Nanoxia Deep Silence 1: review here.


IMHO it should have been designed with 140mm front fans. Simply move 5.25 bays up a little. And HDD cages designed to for better airflow.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Yep, that's what I thought. It looks nice, but the design needs some modernization, for air cooling that is.


----------



## doyll

Did notice the feet are taller so better bottom airflow clearance than most.

Just don't understand the front fan / HDD rack snafus.

I in the process of modding my Define R2 for 140mm front fans and moved HDD cage back 15mm. The difference is amazing.








 You can see now nicely the fans fit setting on a 19mm block.







Hardest part is making up fan mounting system.







Maybe make a new front panel that mounts with existing screws leaving 45 degree corners in vent openings for fan mounting with longer fan screws. Have a pieces of 2mm black plastic that should do the trick... or maybe make metal triangle bits for corners that mount with existing screws and longer fan screws... would allow use of magnetic filters on front.


----------



## ivanlabrie

That looks great, sporting ty140's and all...


----------



## doyll

There are only 4 140mm fans worth mentioning: Ty-140, TY-141, TY-143 and TY-147


----------



## ivanlabrie

Hey, the Prolimatech aluminum Vortex are awesome too...But ty14x fans will always come first in my book.


----------



## DubbaYuArr

Question guys, I've tried to browse through thread to find answer but figured id ask because I had no luck. You all have some great tips, I have the HAF XM and have my front fan 200mm intake, I am looking to get a fan for mid case, attached to the back of my HDD cage in order to create a wind tunnel. My concern is the fan size though, if I pop a 120mm fan on the back of the HDD cage to create a wind tunnel with my 200mm fan on the front, will it limit the air being pushed through from the 200mm? Basically is having a smaller fan on the HDD cage going to slow down the air coming from the 200mm fan or am I just overthinking?

Also, if any of you guys block off the rear Top mounted fan and make the Front Top fan an intake, what are you using to block off the rear fan position?


----------



## ehume

Depends on the cfm. A 120mm can match a 200mm. It's velocity (and noise) will be much faster, though.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Depends on the cfm. A 120mm can match a 200mm. It's velocity (and noise) will be much faster, though.


Unless the 200mm is just that inefficient or if the 120mm is that efficient (I've only seen the specs of a Sanyo get a CFM/dBA ratio become higher than 4, I think...).


----------



## DubbaYuArr

Well Im not trying to have a noisy fan in there so do you think i'd be better off not putting a fan on the HDD cage?


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DubbaYuArr*
> 
> Well Im not trying to have a noisy fan in there so do you think i'd be better off not putting a fan on the HDD cage?


You won't hear a fan placed there that much, not at least compared to fans with filters or the rear exhaust fan. Those make more noise, even with lower cfm.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DubbaYuArr*
> 
> Well Im not trying to have a noisy fan in there so do you think i'd be better off not putting a fan on the HDD cage?


If it's easy to do and you are not using it yes, by all means remove it. The less restriction on airflow in case the cooler and quieter the case will be.

Airflow / wind makes no noise by itself. It only makes noise when it goes through / past things now moving at the same speed it is.


----------



## DubbaYuArr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> If it's easy to do and you are not using it yes, by all means remove it. The less restriction on airflow in case the cooler and quieter the case will be.
> Airflow / wind makes no noise by itself. It only makes noise when it goes through / past things now moving at the same speed it is.


Thanks.

To sum it up, I just got a new Gaming rig. See sig, its a HAF XM case. I am going to basic overclock the i5-2570k CPU to like 4 - 4.2 GHz and also want to OC my HD7950. Ive had rig for about a week so all I currently have are the Standard Fans that come pre-installed in it; the front 200mm, 1 top 200mm exhaust, rear 140mm exhaust (Thermaltake Liquid Cooling Push-Pull setup) . As I will be OCing I want to make sure I got the case getting proper airflow. I am about to order a 200mm for side intake, an additional 200mm for the open top slot, and was thinking of getting something for inside the case along the HDD rack but not sure if thats optimal anymore.

I want to keep a positive air pressure in the case to prevent dust issues. I have read in here that its suggested to make the top fans intake a lot of the time. Do you guys suggest that? If that is the case I would have 4 200mm intakes and only a 140mm exhaust lol.

Any suggestions are appreciated. I am open to anything


----------



## chinesethunda

you could make the top slot in the back exhaust and the top front slot an intake. worked for me on my phantom


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DubbaYuArr*
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> To sum it up, I just got a new Gaming rig. See sig, its a HAF XM case. I am going to basic overclock the i5-2570k CPU to like 4 - 4.2 GHz and also want to OC my HD7950. Ive had rig for about a week so all I currently have are the Standard Fans that come pre-installed in it; the front 200mm, 1 top 200mm exhaust, rear 140mm exhaust (Thermaltake Liquid Cooling Push-Pull setup) . As I will be OCing I want to make sure I got the case getting proper airflow. I am about to order a 200mm for side intake, an additional 200mm for the open top slot, and was thinking of getting something for inside the case along the HDD rack but not sure if thats optimal anymore.
> 
> I want to keep a positive air pressure in the case to prevent dust issues. I have read in here that its suggested to make the top fans intake a lot of the time. Do you guys suggest that? If that is the case I would have 4 200mm intakes and only a 140mm exhaust lol.
> 
> Any suggestions are appreciated. I am open to anything


I'd suggest to use all of them as intake and (if you don't wanna cut the rear mesh grill off) you should also remove all your pci bracket covers (including the side one)
I know you have them already well ventilated however it's better to remove them
Also remove the three round top grommets









http://www.techarena.it/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/HAF-XM-2.jpg


----------



## DubbaYuArr

Thanks guys I'll give the suggestions a try.


----------



## solsamurai

I've been following the other threads about it but wanted to ask you guys....*HAF XB*? What do you think? I know it's not the prettiest thing but for $99 and what it offers it's awful tempting.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> I've been following the other threads about it but wanted to ask you guys....*HAF XB*? What do you think? I know it's not the prettiest thing but for $99 and what it offers it's awful tempting.


Well, I guess you could make a wind tunnel with everything on the motherboard as it's separate from the hard drives and such so I'd say it's pretty good. Just wish it used 140mm fans but beggars can't be choosers.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Well, I guess you could make a wind tunnel with everything on the motherboard as it's separate from the hard drives and such so I'd say it's pretty good. Just wish it used 140mm fans but beggars can't be choosers.


You mean up front? It has both 120 and 140 mounts.







I'm thinking about getting it just to see if my TY-140's will fit.


----------



## doyll

I'll play devil's advocate on this case.









A case design with lots of potential untouched and things designed wrong.
*6x 2.5" bays but only 2x 3.5" hot swap. Why are 6x 2.5" not 3.5"?








* Top with raised area for 200mm fan but back only accepts 120mm fan. Why not make top 20mm higher and flat... possibly with provisions for mounting radiators in top as well.








*Back vent 120mm and not 140mm... With so many coolers using 140mm fans common sense says design case with 140mm exhaust vent to match cooler.








*Front vents put 2 layers of grille (one in front and one behind fans) to restrict airflow.








*Are front vents big enough to accept new 140mm fan - 140x313mm radiators?








*Bottom vent for PSU doesn't look like it is big enough to match 140mm PSU fan.


----------



## ehume

I have done a review of the NZXT Phantom 820, explored it fairly thoroughly, here.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I'll play devil's advocate on this case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A case design with lots of potential untouched and things designed wrong.
> *6x 2.5" bays but only 2x 3.5" hot swap. Why are 6x 2.5" not 3.5"?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * Top with raised area for 200mm fan but back only accepts 120mm fan. Why not make top 20mm higher and flat... possibly with provisions for mounting radiators in top as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Back vent 120mm and not 140mm... With so many coolers using 140mm fans common sense says design case with 140mm exhaust vent to match cooler.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Front vents put 2 layers of grille (one in front and one behind fans) to restrict airflow.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Are front vents big enough to accept new 140mm fan - 140x313mm radiators?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Bottom vent for PSU doesn't look like it is big enough to match 140mm PSU fan.


I share a lot of those concerns. The honey comb looking plastic behind the front filter looks like it would be easy to remove. Eh, screw it. I'll order it, throw my system in there (please fit Silver Arrow!) and see what happens, lol. Worse case scenario I'll go back to my lovely 650D or try the Define R4.


----------



## chinesethunda

dude that new phantom. So much want. I like how they combined the concepts of the switch 820 with the phantom and made it better. Really tempted to get it lol


----------



## ehume

That Phantom 820 is really a good case. When I opened it I thought it was going to be a piece of metal with gewgaws and trinkets festooned over it. Instead, the thing won me over with its general excellence. Double thumbs up, IMO.


----------



## RIBAKULA

Hello, people! I wld like to say that this top inlet is really great idea! Did you have any experience with the new CM Cosmos 2 ? I have recently bought it and thinking how to arrange the air flow (no water, please







)
Please, have a look at my humble layout of airflow.
Can i have any hope that it will work like this ?
Thank you for your answers!


----------



## ehume

140mm rear fan is a nice feature. I'd recommend removing the rear grill, however. Then your case will do fine with no rear fan. Most importantly, you can keep all of your case fans down under 1000 rpm, so that the entire beast will be quiet.


----------



## RIBAKULA

thank you the answer!
yes, no grill = it was written on the layout







) i cut it already

question = what do you think will be the better place for the TOP fans - below the ceiling (inside the case) OR on the "roof" (outside the internal space fo the case) ??

what you think to leave this case completely with passive cooling ? i mean that i have Z600 hyper CM and it can cover 89 watt TDP only in passive (i have lga 1155 with z77 + core7 3770k = 77 watt)


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RIBAKULA*
> 
> thank you the answer!
> yes, no grill = it was written on the layout
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) i cut it already
> 
> question = what do you think will be the better place for the TOP fans - below the ceiling (inside the case) OR on the "roof" (outside the internal space fo the case) ??
> 
> what you think to leave this case completely with passive cooling ? i mean that i have Z600 hyper CM and it can cover 89 watt TDP only in passive (i have lga 1155 with z77 + core7 3770k = 77 watt)


1. Congratulations

2. Try both, and compare net temps (cpu minus ambient)

3. Passive vs active: again, try both, see what you like.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> 1. Congratulations
> 2. Try both, and compare net temps (cpu minus ambient)
> 3. Passive vs active: again, try both, see what you like.


+1. You'll always discover the best setup for your personal system by trying everything. I went through about 3-4 different configurations before arriving at what was best for me.


----------



## RIBAKULA

will follow


----------



## ipv89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> 140mm rear fan is a nice feature. I'd recommend removing the rear grill, however. Then your case will do fine with no rear fan. Most importantly, you can keep all of your case fans down under 1000 rpm, so that the entire beast will be quiet.


"I'd recommend removing the rear grill"
Is this just done for the reduction in noise?


----------



## inVain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ipv89*
> 
> "I'd recommend removing the rear grill"
> Is this just done for the reduction in noise?


no grill = no resistance = better airflow


----------



## ipv89

yep but does it lower the noise level.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ipv89*
> 
> yep but does it lower the noise level.


no grill = no resistance = better airflow = no need for exhaust fan = less noise

no grill = no resistance = better airflow = less restriction of airflow = quieter fan (intake or exhaust) + intake filter = slight airflow resistance = slightly more noise.

Things like HDD cage too close to fan will increase fan noise too.

The less obstacles the air has to navigate the better the airflow and the quieter it will be.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ipv89*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> 140mm rear fan is a nice feature. I'd recommend removing the rear grill, however. Then your case will do fine with no rear fan. Most importantly, you can keep all of your case fans down under 1000 rpm, so that the entire beast will be quiet.
> 
> 
> 
> "I'd recommend removing the rear grill"
> Is this just done for the reduction in noise?
Click to expand...

The subsequent responses fully answered your question, I think. Once intelligent people think about the issue, the answer and its consequences unfold. It seems so obvious that some of us ask, Why haven't case manufacturers all done this?

I think we continue to have rear grills because inexpensive as they are, finger guards are more expensive than punching holes; and then they need to be installed, which is also an expense. We are beginning to see no-grill fan spaces on the tops and sometimes the bottoms of cases where there is a cap or a base with filter(s).

That is real progress. My recent review of the NZXT Phantom 820 shows a manufacturer that has made progress. And in the comments section we can see that a rep for the company read the review. I've seen similar comments elsewhere, so we know they are reading reviews.


----------



## ipv89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> The subsequent responses fully answered your question, I think. Once intelligent people think about the issue, the answer and its consequences unfold. It seems so obvious that some of us ask, Why haven't case manufacturers all done this?
> 
> I think we continue to have rear grills because inexpensive as they are, finger guards are more expensive than punching holes; and then they need to be installed, which is also an expense. We are beginning to see no-grill fan spaces on the tops and sometimes the bottoms of cases where there is a cap or a base with filter(s).
> 
> That is real progress. My recent review of the NZXT Phantom 820 shows a manufacturer that has made progress. And in the comments section we can see that a rep for the company read the review. I've seen similar comments elsewhere, so we know they are reading reviews.


exactly







Ill be removing the rear and bottom fan grills from my NZXT Phantom 410 before I transfer my parts over to it. I suspect this is why I get a loud whining noise coming from my current side fan (facing GPU) as it was very quite when tested out of the case but loud once behind the grill.


----------



## ehume

I just looked at my review of the Phantom 410. Any side filter would run the risk of looking kludgy. Here is what I did to my own case (Beta Evo):



You can get these after-market filters that are contained in snap-off covers like the one above.


----------



## doyll

I've been using the Silverstone magnetic filters
 Want to change to DEMCiflex .
Hopefully they will come down in price. They make a full line of custom sized and have sets for many cases.


----------



## ipv89

yeah for filters im not to keen on things sticking out the side of the case I want them to not be seen so I was thinking of using pantyhose and nicely sticking it to the fan its self.


----------



## doyll

How do you plan to attach it? Stretch it over fan housing and tie it off. Then super glue it to face of fan housing and trim off excess?


----------



## ipv89

yep that's what I was going to try. since the pantyhose material is cheap if they get clogged ripped or anything you can just replace them.

I Have made one filter that works very well its a similar material but I have added a strong elastic band around the fabric so it is a easy to remove and clean and put back on.


----------



## doyll

I wonder what a person could use as a material to make a frame same size as fan housing.. Like a gasket made out of a stiff material. And attach the filter material to that.

Are you thinking of filter on intake or exhaust of fan?


----------



## ipv89

just intake. I used Thick cardboard to shape it than attach the elastic.

If one wanted to it wouldn't be to hard to make some fiberglass frames just a little time consuming.


----------



## doyll

Model makers shops have sheet goods .04-.08" thick... and small angle too.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&P=SM&I=LXF894

Maybe a 1/2" x 1/2" x .08" angle cut and glue corners and glue filter material to that. An extra piece on corner for strength and screw to fan exhaust.


----------



## ipv89

that looks like it would to the trick :thumb:ill post some pics when I make my next filter.


----------



## doyll

Look foward seeing them


----------



## kevindd992002

@eheum and to everyone as well

I just installed my Gigabyte Windforce X3 GTX 670 card which, I think, exhausts hot air towards the side panel. I'm not 100% sure of this claim though, I hope someone can confirm this. With this card, should I use my 200mm side panel fan as an exhaust instead of my current setup (side panel fan is intake).

Please help. Thanks.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> @eheum and to everyone as well
> 
> I just installed my Gigabyte Windforce X3 GTX 670 card which, I think, exhausts hot air towards the side panel. I'm not 100% sure of this claim though, I hope someone can confirm this. With this card, should I use my 200mm side panel fan as an exhaust instead of my current setup (side panel fan is intake).
> 
> Please help. Thanks.


Open the side panel of your case. Get your graphics card working hard, like on a 4k movie. Then hold some Kleenex next to it and watch where the wind blows.


----------



## ehume

Check this out



That is a Vantec fan gasket. They come in packs of two. If you are using a 120mm intake fan on your side panel you can use one as a standoff to get the blades away from the grill so your fan will not vibrate.

If your fan is bigger than this you can use bits of inner tube as vibration-absorbing spacers to lift your fan blades off the grill, so the fan won't vibrate.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Open the side panel of your case. Get your graphics card working hard, like on a 4k movie. Then hold some Kleenex next to it and watch where the wind blows.


Just did that and I can confirm that the hot air is indeed exhausted toward the side panel (inside the case). So should I turn my 200mm CM Storm Force fan to an exhaust?


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Just did that and I can confirm that the hot air is indeed exhausted toward the side panel (inside the case). So should I turn my 200mm CM Storm Force fan to an exhaust?


I have the same GPU and I think it would be better just to have no fan on the side panel. I think putting an exhaust fan might screw with the intake portion of the GPU fans.

My case has no side vent so I'm actually planning on cutting a hole into the window of my case and making a custom "tube" thing that would be right in front of the exhaust portion of the GPU and lead straight out of the case. The GPU is amazing but it just blows hot air ALL over the case!


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> I have the same GPU and I think it would be better just to have no fan on the side panel. I think putting an exhaust fan might screw with the intake portion of the GPU fans.
> My case has no side vent so I'm actually planning on cutting a hole into the window of my case and making a custom "tube" thing that would be right in front of the exhaust portion of the GPU and lead straight out of the case. The GPU is amazing but it just blows hot air ALL over the case!


Hmmm, ok. But I think it would be on a case to case basis because we have different cases, right?

When you say all over the case? Where exactly?


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Hmmm, ok. But I think it would be on a case to case basis because we have different cases, right?
> When you say all over the case? Where exactly?


Yes we have different cases. If my case, the side panel is right next to the GPU so the air just deflects off the panel spraying hot air all over my case. Lots of mixing going on.

If you have an opening in my side panel, then the air can escape.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Yes we have different cases. If my case, the side panel is right next to the GPU so the air just deflects off the panel spraying hot air all over my case. Lots of mixing going on.
> If you have an opening in my side panel, then the air can escape.


Yes, but if you see my case here the opening is a big mesh vent and leaving it without a fan would probably not be too much effective because the mesh style vent itself is a restriction the the exhausted hot air. Does that make sense? If I cut the whole panel side panel though, it will interfere with the front-to-back wind tunnel positive airflow that I've designed?


----------



## ehume

Found a new possibility: the Corsair Carbide 200R. Seems to be a budget case with most of the right features. But is there a better review?


----------



## 161029

Not sure. I think TPU might do one. They usually do most of Corsair's cases.


----------



## Flanders finest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Found a new possibility: the Corsair Carbide 200R. Seems to be a budget case with most of the right features. But is there a better review?


http://www.anandtech.com/show/6515/corsair-carbide-200r-case-review-how-low-can-you-go


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flanders finest*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Found a new possibility: the Corsair Carbide 200R. Seems to be a budget case with most of the right features. But is there a better review?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6515/corsair-carbide-200r-case-review-how-low-can-you-go
Click to expand...

Thanks. Nice review. With a second 120mm front intake fan and a forward top 140mm intake fan (closing off the top rear position), this should be a decent case.

Minuses:

- Only three 5.25 slots, so one would have to forgo a DVD to put a fan in the 5.25 bay.

- Rear grill. Unnecessary.


----------



## ohhgourami

Ehume, what do you think if a case had this layout?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Ehume, what do you think if a case had this layout?


The problem with cases like this is that the hot PSU exhausts out the front, where it will rise to be ingested by the middle and upper front fans.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> The problem with cases like this is that the hot PSU exhausts out the front, where it will rise to be ingested by the middle and upper front fans.


If you have a Gold or Platinum rated PSU, it wouldn't be that hot right? I think this design is already a big step above traditional case designs to lower noise while maintaining high performance.


----------



## eBombzor

This guide is very subjective and it varies depending on your hardware, especially the case.

If you have a long blower-style GPU, then a bottom intake fan could help.

Your way overemphasizing how hot the air gets after running over small components. The air might be 1-5 C warmer (except the GPU and CPU air), not 10 -20.

I like the effort and amount of research put into this, but you're only using one case. Try multiple cases from the C70 to the Antec 302.

Negative pressure is actually quite effective and it doesn't collect as much dust as you would expect. I'm offended that you recommended everyone to stay away from Antec. The 1100 and 302 cases are brilliant and they have incredible cooling potential. Maybe you should try positive air pressure on one of those cases.

Anyway, my point is that you can't say the same thing for everyone, since every build is unique. But I like the concept and please try to test more modern cases.

EDIT: Also, the type and quality of the fans are an important factor in testing airflow. Corsair's stock fans are O.K... while Antec's and Silverstone's are incredible.

EDIT: No need to read my stupidity.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> This guide is very subjective and it varies depending on your hardware, especially the case.
> 
> If you have a long blower-style GPU, then a bottom intake fan could help.
> 
> Your way overemphasizing how hot the air gets after running over small components. The air might be 1-5 C warmer (except the GPU and CPU air), not 10 -20.
> 
> I like the effort and amount of research put into this, but you're only using one case. Try multiple cases from the C70 to the Antec 302.
> 
> Negative pressure is actually quite effective and it doesn't collect as much dust as you would expect. I'm offended that you recommended everyone to stay away from Antec. The 1100 and 302 cases are brilliant and they have incredible cooling potential. Maybe you should try positive air pressure on one of those cases.
> 
> Anyway, my point is that you can't say the same thing for everyone, since every build is unique. But I like the concept and please try to test more modern cases.
> 
> EDIT: Also, the type and quality of the fans are an important factor in testing airflow. Corsair's stock fans are O.K... while Antec's and Silverstone's are incredible.


Antec cases generally don't have that great of a layout for cooling. Mainly the top fan they have. A single top fan is not optimal for aftermarket heatsinks.

Anyway, ehume is right for the most part on his recommendations. There are just certain things that just don't work as well and he won't recommend those.


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> This guide is very subjective and it varies depending on your hardware, especially the case.
> 
> If you have a long blower-style GPU, then a bottom intake fan could help.
> 
> Your way overemphasizing how hot the air gets after running over small components. The air might be 1-5 C warmer (except the GPU and CPU air), not 10 -20.
> 
> I like the effort and amount of research put into this, but you're only using one case. Try multiple cases from the C70 to the Antec 302.
> 
> Negative pressure is actually quite effective and it doesn't collect as much dust as you would expect. I'm offended that you recommended everyone to stay away from Antec. The 1100 and 302 cases are brilliant and they have incredible cooling potential. Maybe you should try positive air pressure on one of those cases.
> 
> Anyway, my point is that you can't say the same thing for everyone, since every build is unique. But I like the concept and please try to test more modern cases.
> 
> EDIT: Also, the type and quality of the fans are an important factor in testing airflow. Corsair's stock fans are O.K... while Antec's and Silverstone's are incredible.
> 
> 
> 
> Antec cases generally don't have that great of a layout for cooling. Mainly the top fan they have. A single top fan is not optimal for aftermarket heatsinks.
> 
> Anyway, ehume is right for the most part on his recommendations. There are just certain things that just don't work as well and he won't recommend those.
Click to expand...

EDIT: Again, my stupidity


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6515/corsair-carbide-200r-case-review-how-low-can-you-go/5 - Look at the 1100. It pretty much bests everything.
> Research first, post second.


Best everything at stock. Most of our setups are far from stock. In stock configurations, fan placement and number of fans haven't been optimized for the cases.

I think there are too many variations to make that conclusion. If the case is really that good, then good for Antec. But I won't be buying any of their cases anytime soon since I don't like the layout.


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6515/corsair-carbide-200r-case-review-how-low-can-you-go/5 - Look at the 1100. It pretty much bests everything.
> Research first, post second.
> 
> 
> 
> Best everything at stock. Most of our setups are far from stock. In stock configurations, fan placement and number of fans haven't been optimized for the cases.
> 
> I think there are too many variations to make that conclusion. If the case is really that good, then good for Antec. But I won't be buying any of their cases anytime soon since I don't like the layout.
Click to expand...

Do have any kind of evidence that Antec didn't optimize their case for more fans or fan placement?

I'm fine if someone just doesn't like Antec cases for personal reasons but seeing that you don't have evidence other than mere statements doesn't make it ok for you to start trashing Antec or not recommending their cases.

EDIT: Nothing to see here


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Do have any kind of evidence that Antec didn't optimize their case for more fans or fan placement?
> 
> I'm fine if someone just doesn't like Antec cases for personal reasons but seeing that you don't have evidence other than mere statements doesn't make it ok for you to start trashing Antec or not recommending their cases.


Don't take things so personally. I think most cases aren't optimized for fans and fan placement. Remember that a case has other functions and cooling is probably not the priority. If cooling was optimized, all those drive bays wouldn't be in front blocking so much potential airflow.


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Do have any kind of evidence that Antec didn't optimize their case for more fans or fan placement?
> 
> I'm fine if someone just doesn't like Antec cases for personal reasons but seeing that you don't have evidence other than mere statements doesn't make it ok for you to start trashing Antec or not recommending their cases.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't take things so personally. I think most cases aren't optimized for fans and fan placement. Remember that a case has other functions and cooling is probably not the priority. If cooling was optimized, all those drive bays wouldn't be in front blocking so much potential airflow.
Click to expand...

Ok yea I over reacted and yes, I did notice the drive cages are a bit on the restrictive side.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Research first, post second.


You need to step back and take a deep breath mate.

ehume does lots of testing. His recommendations are based on real world testing and use, not reading a review on the web.

How many tests have you done?

Keep in mind that these case reviews are with one setup only. Every setup is a little different.. size and cooling pattern of different coolers, number of hdds, size and cooling pattern of different GPUs, etc.. all effect the airflow and cooling of the case.

As already said, most of us modify our cases.. starting with adding / changing fans. Many if not most stock cases need more fans. Many of us remove grilles, add 5.25 bay fan, change / add filters.


----------



## Emissary of Pain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> You need to step back and take a deep breath mate.
> ehume does lots of testing. His recommendations are based on real world testing and use, not reading a review on the web.
> How many tests have you done?
> Keep in mind that these case reviews are with one setup only. Every setup is a little different.. size and cooling pattern of different coolers, number of hdds, size and cooling pattern of different GPUs, etc.. all effect the airflow and cooling of the case.
> As already said, most of us modify our cases.. starting with adding / changing fans. Many if not most stock cases need more fans. Many of us remove grilles, add 5.25 bay fan, change / add filters.


I fully agree with this statement ... ... ehume doesn't just post random crap for attention ... he does the research and crunches the numbers in real world configurations ... ...

And there is only 1 brand of cases in my experience that normally comes fully equipped with fans that don't need changing and if it isn't fully equipped it is at least 85% equipped ... The silverstone cases, most if not all of the serious enthusiast cases they produce come with decent fans for cooling (ap 181's) and then the only fan worth changing is possibly the smaller 120 at the back ... ...


----------



## ehume

I was following Antec cases up through the spring. Pretty much, any case that has only a rear top fan position is designed so that you can only use that position for top exhaust. I hate that.

The other problem is closed bottom rear position. I have found that putting a PSU above one of those slotted "vents" is almost like having no vent. Your psu will be starved for air and get very hot. You can put in a psu with the fan on top, but it must be a constantly running fan. If the psu has a fan profile where the fan is off during part of its usage, the hot air will rise from it and you will have to cope with it using your case ventilation. This is how some newer Antec cases are built.

Overall, you must evaluate each case. But so far, Antec has mostly disappointed me. There are exceptions.


----------



## ipv89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I was following Antec cases up through the spring. Pretty much, any case that has only a rear top fan position is designed so that you can only use that position for top exhaust. I hate that.
> 
> The other problem is closed bottom rear position. I have found that putting a PSU above one of those slotted "vents" is almost like having no vent. Your psu will be starved for air and get very hot. You can put in a psu with the fan on top, but it must be a constantly running fan. If the psu has a fan profile where the fan is off during part of its usage, the hot air will rise from it and you will have to cope with it using your case ventilation. This is how some newer Antec cases are built.
> 
> Overall, you must evaluate each case. But so far, Antec has mostly disappointed me. There are exceptions.


Hey ehume I have reed you op and it has a lot of very useful information in it that i rely do appreciate you taking the time to post.

I have a question if you wouldn't mind helping me with.

I have the NZXT phantom 410, I have not transferred my system to this case yet as i want to get all of my plans in place first. can you please if you have the time recommend a plan for how i will set up my fans for positive pressure? If you could it would be very much appreciated


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ipv89*
> 
> Hey ehume I have reed you op and it has a lot of very useful information in it that i rely do appreciate you taking the time to post.
> I have a question if you wouldn't mind helping me with.
> I have the NZXT phantom 410, I have not transferred my system to this case yet as i want to get all of my plans in place first. can you please if you have the time recommend a plan for how i will set up my fans for positive pressure? If you could it would be very much appreciated


check ehume's review at overclockers.com


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ipv89*
> 
> Hey ehume I have reed you op and it has a lot of very useful information in it that i rely do appreciate you taking the time to post.
> I have a question if you wouldn't mind helping me with.
> I have the NZXT phantom 410, I have not transferred my system to this case yet as i want to get all of my plans in place first. can you please if you have the time recommend a plan for how i will set up my fans for positive pressure? If you could it would be very much appreciated
> 
> 
> 
> check ehume's review at overclockers.com
Click to expand...

And that review is here.

In general, I recommend you start with stock and after you use the case a while decide on how you want to put in your fannage. My own rig went through many permutations. I will probably tweak it some more.

The only thing I do on every case before I use it is to remove the rear grill.

--------------------------------

As for Antec's "testing," it proves nothing. I think you are better off going to a third party site like this one. You will note that there are a couple of Antec cases in the top ten, which is why I don't say all Antec cases do not cool well.


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I was following Antec cases up through the spring. Pretty much, any case that has only a rear top fan position is designed so that you can only use that position for top exhaust. I hate that.
> 
> The other problem is closed bottom rear position. I have found that putting a PSU above one of those slotted "vents" is almost like having no vent. Your psu will be starved for air and get very hot. You can put in a psu with the fan on top, but it must be a constantly running fan. If the psu has a fan profile where the fan is off during part of its usage, the hot air will rise from it and you will have to cope with it using your case ventilation. This is how some newer Antec cases are built.
> 
> Overall, you must evaluate each case. But so far, Antec has mostly disappointed me. There are exceptions.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IY5LeGb9b_A#t=360s - 1100

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ubX0pKrtZiI#t=309s - 302

I don't see how Antec's PSU vents on the bottom are any more restrictive than Corsair's, Coolermaster's, NZXT's, etc.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ipv89*
> 
> Hey ehume I have reed you op and it has a lot of very useful information in it that i rely do appreciate you taking the time to post.
> I have a question if you wouldn't mind helping me with.
> I have the NZXT phantom 410, I have not transferred my system to this case yet as i want to get all of my plans in place first. can you please if you have the time recommend a plan for how i will set up my fans for positive pressure? If you could it would be very much appreciated
> 
> 
> 
> check ehume's review at overclockers.com
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> And that review is here.
> 
> In general, I recommend you start with stock and after you use the case a while decide on how you want to put in your fannage. My own rig went through many permutations. I will probably tweak it some more.
> 
> The only thing I do on every case before I use it is to remove the rear grill.
> 
> --------------------------------
> 
> As for Antec's "testing," it proves nothing. I think you are better off going to a third party site like this one. You will note that there are a couple of Antec cases in the top ten, which is why I don't say all Antec cases do not cool well.
Click to expand...

I read your review on the DS1 on overclockers.com and it was pretty good, but you could've at least had some thermal results on the stock config or what you would think would be the best fan placement since you're all about air flow.

Anandtech and Bit-tech had completely different thermal results from each other so it would've been nice for someone to test the DS1 to find out which site is correct, although Anandtech is a more reputable site.


----------



## chinesethunda

well looking at those at least from my opinion, the case sits way too low to the ground, where are you expecting it to get it's airflow from? I have the full sized NZXT Phantom and even though I sometimes still think the PSU isn't getting enough air, at least the case is about an +-inch off the ground, giving the PSU at least a little more room to breath. sure many of the cases are designed fairly similar, but upon actual testing you can see which cases are designed properly and which are just bad. I haven't tested as many as ehume but within the couple that I have tested, the cases with decent airflow generally share some similar traits, and all lack grills


----------



## ehume

This is the bottom of a Z11. Under the PSU it is essentially the same as the "vents" under the PSU in Lian Li cases and others. And Antec, in its DF-85, has no vents under the PSU(!).

Even with elevating pegs, a PSU will get hot in a Z11. It will even get hot with the case on its side. I know this because I needed to use the Z11 when I was testing a heatsink recently. Since removing the motherboard from the case I have removed the restrictive "vents." Heck, PSU's come with their own grills or finger guards.

Bottom line is that we have one more air orifice to think about.

As for my review of the DS1, when I get a motherboard/cpu I can devote to testing I will start getting system temps. My test system has been tied up with a very puzzling heatsink for months.


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> 
> 
> This is the bottom of a Z11. Under the PSU it is essentially the same as the "vents" under the PSU in Lian Li cases and others. And Antec, in its DF-85, has no vents under the PSU(!).
> 
> Even with elevating pegs, a PSU will get hot in a Z11. It will even get hot with the case on its side. I know this because I needed to use the Z11 when I was testing a heatsink recently. Since removing the motherboard from the case I have removed the restrictive "vents." Heck, PSU's come with their own grills or finger guards.
> 
> Bottom line is that we have one more air orifice to think about.
> 
> As for my review of the DS1, when I get a motherboard/cpu I can devote to testing I will start getting system temps. My test system has been tied up with a very puzzling heatsink for months.


Since you already reviewed the DS1, how restrictive is the chimney?

I plan on using the DS1 in my first build and I want to have air flow similar to your first post, a fan on the top , right above the CPU cooler as an intake with the rear fan, so that the Evo will push the air out the rear itself. I'm also planning on using the side panel dust filter on the intake at the top and keeping the side panel closed.

But the chimney looks a little restrictive.

I also don't know if I should have 1 front intake and 1 bottom intake, or 2 front intake and no bottom intake.

Also, when is the DS1 coming to the US?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> 
> 
> This is the bottom of a Z11. Under the PSU it is essentially the same as the "vents" under the PSU in Lian Li cases and others. And Antec, in its DF-85, has no vents under the PSU(!).
> 
> Even with elevating pegs, a PSU will get hot in a Z11. It will even get hot with the case on its side. I know this because I needed to use the Z11 when I was testing a heatsink recently. Since removing the motherboard from the case I have removed the restrictive "vents." Heck, PSU's come with their own grills or finger guards.
> 
> Bottom line is that we have one more air orifice to think about.
> 
> As for my review of the DS1, when I get a motherboard/cpu I can devote to testing I will start getting system temps. My test system has been tied up with a very puzzling heatsink for months.
> 
> 
> 
> Since you already reviewed the DS1, how restrictive is the chimney?
> 
> I plan on using the DS1 in my first build and I want to have air flow similar to your first post, a fan on the top , right above the CPU cooler as an intake with the rear fan, so that the Evo will push the air out the rear itself. I'm also planning on using the side panel dust filter on the intake at the top and keeping the side panel closed.
> 
> But the chimney looks a little restrictive.
> 
> I also don't know if I should have 1 front intake and 1 bottom intake, or 2 front intake and no bottom intake.
> 
> Also, when is the DS1 coming to the US?
Click to expand...

With a quarter-inch gap, you ought to be able to pull air through better than air would drift up.

I can't find it for sale anywhere. That makes the one I have rather rare ATM.


----------



## kevindd992002

@ehume

Do you of the The Mod for graphics cards using AIO liquid cooling systems like the Antec Kuhler 620?

Here's my case:



I'm planning on doing the mod to my GTX 670 but don't know where to put the radiator. Can you guide me through here?

Thanks.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> @ehume
> Do you of the The Mod for graphics cards using AIO liquid cooling systems like the Antec Kuhler 620?
> Here's my case:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm planning on doing the mod to my GTX 670 but don't know where to put the radiator. Can you guide me through here?
> Thanks.


You might as well get a Thermalright Shaman...

A radiator really wouldn't work well in your case (pun!).


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> You might as well get a Thermalright Shaman...
> A radiator really wouldn't work well in your case (pun!).


Huh? Why not?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> @ehume
> 
> Do you of the The Mod for graphics cards using AIO liquid cooling systems like the Antec Kuhler 620?
> 
> Here's my case:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm planning on doing the mod to my GTX 670 but don't know where to put the radiator. Can you guide me through here?
> 
> Thanks.


The only place for a rad in your case would be on the side panel, pulling air out of the case. So that's really not practical.

However, one of the advantages of water cooling is that the heat intake (the contact plate) and the heat exhaust (the rad) can be in separate locations. If the hoses are long enough, you should locate the rad for your gpu cooling outside your case.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> The only place for a rad in your case would be on the side panel, pulling air out of the case. So that's really not practical.
> 
> However, one of the advantages of water cooling is that the heat intake (the contact plate) and the heat exhaust (the rad) can be in separate locations. If the hoses are long enough, you should locate the rad for your gpu cooling outside your case.


Ah but why do some people here recommend to put a rad on the bottom fan slot of my case?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> The only place for a rad in your case would be on the side panel, pulling air out of the case. So that's really not practical.
> 
> However, one of the advantages of water cooling is that the heat intake (the contact plate) and the heat exhaust (the rad) can be in separate locations. If the hoses are long enough, you should locate the rad for your gpu cooling outside your case.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah but why do some people here recommend to put a rad on the bottom fan slot of my case?
Click to expand...

Because that is a place where you don't need air intake. But again, the rad must be an exhaust. And the you have warm air going out the bottom of your case. The warm air will be ingested by your PSU, heating it up. And some will come up the left side and get ingested by your side intake fan.

You could make a bottom exhaust from a rad work only if you have effective felt cofferdams that do not allow the hot bottom exhaust to go rearward to the psu or sideways; only forward and rightward. I'm not sure how efficient that would be. You would certainly need a rad fan with good static pressure, and tall enough legs that there is enough space under the case for the exhaust air to get out.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Because that is a place where you don't need air intake. But again, the rad must be an exhaust. And the you have warm air going out the bottom of your case. The warm air will be ingested by your PSU, heating it up. And some will come up the left side and get ingested by your side intake fan.
> 
> You could make a bottom exhaust from a rad work only if you have effective felt cofferdams that do not allow the hot bottom exhaust to go rearward to the psu or sideways; only forward and rightward. I'm not sure how efficient that would be. You would certainly need a rad fan with good static pressure, and tall enough legs that there is enough space under the case for the exhaust air to get out.


But if you let the hot air go forward, then the front bottom fan will ingest the hot air?

Can the TY-140 be a rad fan?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Because that is a place where you don't need air intake. But again, the rad must be an exhaust. And the you have warm air going out the bottom of your case. The warm air will be ingested by your PSU, heating it up. And some will come up the left side and get ingested by your side intake fan.
> 
> You could make a bottom exhaust from a rad work only if you have effective felt cofferdams that do not allow the hot bottom exhaust to go rearward to the psu or sideways; only forward and rightward. I'm not sure how efficient that would be. You would certainly need a rad fan with good static pressure, and tall enough legs that there is enough space under the case for the exhaust air to get out.
> 
> 
> 
> But if you let the hot air go forward, then the front bottom fan will ingest the hot air?
> 
> Can the TY-140 be a rad fan?
Click to expand...

You're right.

Not really.

Probably better you ask in the Water Cooling forum about watercooling your gpu.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> You're right.
> Not really.
> 
> Probably better you ask in the Water Cooling forum about watercooling your gpu.


Ok, thanks.


----------



## kevindd992002

I'm asking about this in the watercooling section but they aren't so much obsessive-compulsive like us here in terms of airflow. They seem to treat what I explained as negligible. So I'm back here. Do you have anymore ideas, ehume?


----------



## ehume

The difficulty comes from your combining a most excellent airflow in the upper half of your case with the desire to use water cooling on your gpu. Mounting the rad outside the case is all I can think of.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> The difficulty comes from your combining a most excellent airflow in the upper half of your case with the desire to use water cooling on your gpu. Mounting the rad outside the case is all I can think of.


If I mount it outside, where do I mount it?


----------



## kevindd992002

Or probably in the top front fan slot as an exhaust? What do you think? With that, it will "share" with the CPU cooler the cool air being pushed by the front drive bay fan, right?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> The difficulty comes from your combining a most excellent airflow in the upper half of your case with the desire to use water cooling on your gpu. Mounting the rad outside the case is all I can think of.
> 
> 
> 
> If I mount it outside, where do I mount it?
Click to expand...

Not the top. I'm thinking you can mount it on long standoffs out the back. Waterheads do this, which is why many cases have provision for hoses to pierce the back of the case.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Not the top. I'm thinking you can mount it on long standoffs out the back. Waterheads do this, which is why many cases have provision for hoses to pierce the back of the case.


Hmmm, I'm not sure I get the picture of this. Can you link me to a picture that does this?


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Hmmm, I'm not sure I get the picture of this. Can you link me to a picture that does this?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*


Hmmm, thanks for this. I wonder how can I do this.

Can the hoses of the Accelero Hybrid Cooler even be removed knowing that it is an AIO solution?


----------



## kevindd992002

@ehume

I had a thought in mind. With the stock cooler of my graphics card, hot air is definitely exhausted inside the case in all directions. Wouldn't this be the same if I place a radiator on the bottom fan slot as an intake? Hot air will be exhausted inside as well, so same effect as the stock cooler's setup?

What will happen i the hot air from the rad (directed upwards from the bottom fan slot) would mix with the cool air forced to the back by the mid-case fan?

Is a shroud needed for radiators?

Again, her's a reference pic of my case:


----------



## ehume

Now you're getting creative, which is a good thing. I have no idea. You can try it.

You can also try exhaust air out the bottom, as you mentioned before. Then, at least, if it gets ingested back into the case it will be mixed with outside air. If you use it as an intake, all the hot air goes back into your case..


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Now you're getting creative, which is a good thing. I have no idea. You can try it.
> 
> You can also try exhaust air out the bottom, as you mentioned before. Then, at least, if it gets ingested back into the case it will be mixed with outside air. If you use it as an intake, all the hot air goes back into your case..


Ah ok. If I use it as an intake, yes got air goes back into the case but that was the case originally with the stock cooler, right? So effectively I did not increase the ambient PC case temp?

If I install it in the bottom as an exhaust, would that little space be enough for hot air to effectively travel outside? Oh btw, the bottom fan slot still has grill which can be a restriction to airflow also.


----------



## ehume

Make the case sit higher off the table. That's what I did with my case. For the bottom of a case you want to have a grill.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Make the case sit higher off the table. That's what I did with my case. For the bottom of a case you want to have a grill.


Actually I made a piece of rectangular wood (with wheels) to raise the case above the floor but still the space between the wood and the bottom fan vents are little because the rubber standoffs dictate this. Do you have a pic of your setup showing how your case sits higher off the table?

And why do you want a grill for the bottom of the case if you use it as an exhaust?


----------



## ehume

Replace your rubber feet with something else. I went to the hardware store, found some stick-on stiff felt about 0.25 inches thick. Two layers of that gives me 0.5 inches. If I built little 4-step pyramids of pads I could have 1-inch feet.

You'll think of something.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Replace your rubber feet with something else. I went to the hardware store, found some stick-on stiff felt about 0.25 inches thick. Two layers of that gives me 0.5 inches. If I built little 4-step pyramids of pads I could have 1-inch feet.
> 
> You'll think of something.


Ahh ok, how much higher do you think is "enough"?

If I set the rad as intake, no need to raise the computer higher? Are the default rubber feet enough for that?


----------



## ehume

I would say to try out various arrangements, figure out what's best.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I would say to try out various arrangements, figure out what's best.


Ok.

Why do you want a grill for the bottom of the case if you use it as an exhaust?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I would say to try out various arrangements, figure out what's best.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok.
> 
> Why do you want a grill for the bottom of the case if you use it as an exhaust?
Click to expand...

I learned that bottom grills were good when I cut a hole in the bottom of my case to make a bottom intake. Every time I picked up my case to take it to the basement my fingers magically found that exposed bottom fan. Things have been much better since i permanently installed a reinforced filter. So I would recommend at least a finger guard down there. But since you already have a grill, leave it.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I learned that bottom grills were good when I cut a hole in the bottom of my case to make a bottom intake. Every time I picked up my case to take it to the basement my fingers magically found that exposed bottom fan. Things have been much better since i permanently installed a reinforced filter. So I would recommend at least a finger guard down there. But since you already have a grill, leave it.


Yes but without considering that and if used as an EXHAUST (not intake like in your scenario) then it would be better to not have any grills down there to have less restriction?


----------



## ehume

Finger guard, then.


----------



## ohhgourami

Why not use the bottom as intake for the rad then use a shroud to lead the air out the PCI covers? You would get no mixing from that.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Why not use the bottom as intake for the rad then use a shroud to lead the air out the PCI covers? You would get no mixing from that.


Fancy shroud, but should work.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Why not use the bottom as intake for the rad then use a shroud to lead the air out the PCI covers? You would get no mixing from that.


Where can you buy that shroud?

Ehume, are shrouds even needed with radiators?


----------



## ehume

What ohhgourami is saying is that you can guide the air out the back.

Of course, this would work better if you remove the slot pillars between the slots. Nobody makes these. You would have to make your own, out of any material that pleases you. And no, I have no advice on the subject of building materials.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> What ohhgourami is saying is that you can guide the air out the back.
> 
> Of course, this would work better if you remove the slot pillars between the slots. Nobody makes these. You would have to make your own, out of any material that pleases you. And no, I have no advice on the subject of building materials.


Yes, my slot pillars are already removed. The pic I've uploaded is an old pic of my case. Ok, how about straight shrouds (directing the exhaust air just staright vertical or horizonal), are they needed for rads?


----------



## ehume

I think that would put hot air exactly where you don't want it. It's time to get stuff like this, and make your own shroud.


----------



## ohhgourami

Actually I think frozencpu sells shrouds like that. Or you can make your own. If you ever seen one of those small portable A/Cs, it's the exhaust "hose" they used. It's this flexible tube with ridges that make it bendy. Same idea can apply for this. I'm sure you can get these at a home improvement store.


----------



## ivanlabrie

I like that bendable material Ehume posted, I'll get some of that soon...xD


----------



## ehume

That sheet styrene comes from several manufacturers and in several thicknesses. Model railroaders use it to make buildings.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I think that would put hot air exactly where you don't want it. It's time to get stuff like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , and make your own shroud.


Are those hard to remodel? Are they plastic?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Actually I think frozencpu sells shrouds like that. Or you can make your own. If you ever seen one of those small portable A/Cs, it's the exhaust "hose" they used. It's this flexible tube with ridges that make it bendy. Same idea can apply for this. I'm sure you can get these at a home improvement store.


Hmmm, can you link me to one?

How about the shrouds that go in between the rad and fan, what are those suppose to do?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I think that would put hot air exactly where you don't want it. It's time to get stuff like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , and make your own shroud.
> 
> 
> 
> . . . Are they plastic? . . .
> 
> How about the shrouds that go in between the rad and fan, what are those suppose to do?
Click to expand...

Styrene is plastic.

Fan-to-something shrouds. Those are generally fan bodies. Some are purpose-built fan shrouds. They are used to provide the full width of a fan's output to the next place the air goes. Shrouds in general:

Quote:


> shroud
> [shroud]
> noun
> 1.
> a cloth or sheet in which a corpse is wrapped for burial.
> 2.
> something that covers or conceals like a garment: a shroud of rain.
> 3.
> Nautical . any of a number of taut ropes or wires converging from both sides on the head of a lower or upper mast of the outer end of a bowsprit to steady it against lateral sway: a part of the standing rigging.
> 4.
> Also called shroud line. Aeronautics . any of a number of suspension cords of a parachute attaching the load to the canopy.
> 5.
> Also called shroud·ing. Machinery .
> a.
> (on a nonmetallic gear) an extended metal rim enclosing the ends of the teeth on either side.
> b.
> (on a water wheel) one of two rings of boards or plates enclosing the buckets at their ends.


In computers, we most often use the word 'shroud' to mean anything that covers a region and keeps the air from mixing with the air outside the shroud. Usually we use shrouds to direct airflow, very much like a duct.

Sometimes we use the word 'shroud' to mean a cover to hide something, like 1. or 5.a. above.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Styrene is plastic.
> 
> Fan-to-something shrouds. Those are generally fan bodies. Some are purpose-built fan shrouds. They are used to provide the full width of a fan's output to the next place the air goes. Shrouds in general:
> 
> In computers, we most often use the word 'shroud' to mean anything that covers a region and keeps the air from mixing with the air outside the shroud. Usually we use shrouds to direct airflow, very much like a duct.
> 
> Sometimes we use the word 'shroud' to mean a cover to hide something, like 1. or 5.a. above.


I understand. But would fan-to-radiator shrouds produce any better temps?


----------



## ohhgourami

Something like this: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16138/duc-55/Akust_Extendable_Air_Flow_Thermal_Hood_-_70_80_92_120_Fans_-_Black_FG02-0100-AKS.html?tl=g47c121s442

They don't seem very clear on the diameter of the opening. You could always make something like this.

This is how you would set it up:


This setup will definitely get better temps than other ways of mounting the radiator. You won't get hot air mixing with cool air your CPU needs.

Now how effective whatever water cooler you plan on using is a completely different issue. To get the most of whatever rad you're using, you would want a fan attached to the exterior part of the case bottom then have the radiator flushed with the bottom of the case from the inside. Then have another fan on top of the rad for push/pull. I don't think there would be enough room to put these 3 items within the case and the duct.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Something like this: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16138/duc-55/Akust_Extendable_Air_Flow_Thermal_Hood_-_70_80_92_120_Fans_-_Black_FG02-0100-AKS.html?tl=g47c121s442
> They don't seem very clear on the diameter of the opening. You could always make something like this.
> This is how you would set it up:


Yup, I got the idea. Why do you need the diameter of that hood though? It is compatible with a 120mm fan/rad anyway, right?


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Yup, I got the idea. Why do you need the diameter of that hood though? It is compatible with a 120mm fan/rad anyway, right?


It says compatible but you don't want the tube portion to be smaller than 120mm. That would be restricting airflow reducing possible cooling.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> It says compatible but you don't want the tube portion to be smaller than 120mm. That would be restricting airflow reducing possible cooling.


Hmmm, ok. How do you do a DIY of this? Not sure if it will be of significant improvement though.


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Hmmm, ok. How do you do a DIY of this? Not sure if it will be of significant improvement though.


DIY might not be worth the trouble unless you find the perfect part at a home improvement store. You would still need to buy something like this: http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=172&products_id=29195

Then get the duct tubing stuff...


----------



## eBombzor

Yo ehume do you think the Nanoxia DS1 cools well? I want to buy this for my build but I don't know if I should go w/ the DS1 or the R4.

Anandtech showed that the DS1 cools a ton better and is one of the most silent cases out there - is this true or what?


----------



## ehume

I haven't had the R4 in my hands. But the DS1 is quite a trooper. My review.


----------



## eBombzor

Bad news: I received an e-mail from Newegg saying the ETA for the Nanoxia DS1 is 1/30!!

I don't know how my new build is going to be on the mobo box for another month









BTW, I already read your review, it was great.


----------



## eBombzor

So I ordered an R4 instead b/c I didn't want to wait another month for the DS1.

My Evo will push air out of the rear. I'm going to relocate the rear fan to the bottom (next to PSU) and use it as an intake. I'm going to remove the first hard drive cage on the front to remove any air restrictions.

I do want my system to be as silent as possible, so I'm going to keep the foam fan coverings on for the top and side. I have a short GPU (6570) so I think the bottom fan will give the Evo plenty of air (I do know it's running over the mobo before it gets to the Evo).

How do you think of this config?

Also, should I cool my SSDs & HDDs? I heard they don't get all that hot anyways.


----------



## ohhgourami

Ideas sound good.

Don't bother cooling the drives; they don't need cooling. Unless maybe you push your HDDs really hard, but I doubt it.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Don't bother cooling the drives; they don't need cooling. Unless maybe you push your HDDs really hard, but I doubt it.


Sorry but I have to disagree.

Many HDD's generate a surprising amount of heat and need to have some airflow/cooling.


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ohhgourami*
> 
> Don't bother cooling the drives; they don't need cooling. Unless maybe you push your HDDs really hard, but I doubt it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry but I have to disagree.
> 
> Many HDD's generate a surprising amount of heat and need to have some airflow/cooling.
Click to expand...

I'm only using a 7200 RPM HDD as extra storage. It won't be used a lot. SSDs don't generate heat, right?


----------



## ohhgourami

SSDs practically run at ambient temp.


----------



## chinesethunda

i would say you don't need to have a fan dedicated to cooling the hdds, but i would have some airflow over them though


----------



## doyll

As chinesethunda says.
I've got my system setting on bench right now. HDD.s are setting in removable cage. OS drive was 45c. I set a fan 10cm from side of cage running at 650rpm and temp dropped to 35c.


----------



## Acefire

If you want a wind tunnel pc, just install 120mm ducting on the fans coming from the heat sink to intakes and exhaust from the case. Bam. Wind tunnel.

I have always considered getting something like this just for that purpose.



Just install in the Cdrom places and make 120mm ducting from the front of the case into the heatstink then some more 120mm ducting to the exhaust fan. Brilliant.


----------



## ivanlabrie

I created a tunnel sealing my 5.25 bay airtight except from the front and back openings and placed a ty140 in thethe back openingand inside the case, below my cd drive-works good









Ehume is baws...


----------



## eBombzor

Hey guys I have a hard time deciding whether to buy an open cooler or the blower style cooler for the 7870. I have a R4 and I installed a bottom intake fan right next tot the PSU. Do you think I could run an open cooler card without having temperature problems on my motherboard?

Specifically the Sapphire 7870 Tahiti LE card.

Also, is it better to plug the fans into the motherboard or the built in fan controller? I leave the fans at 7v for everything.


----------



## doyll

Please define
"open cooler"
"blower cooler"
*bottom intake fan right next tot the CPU" ( R4 has bottom fan but CPU near top of case)
"open cooler card"

I assume by "open cooler" and "open cooler card" you are referring to passive coolers on CPU and GPU; and "blower cooler" is fan cooled cooler.


----------



## 161029

arc midi r2!


----------



## Mule928

I have had noticeably better results with exhaust out of the top and the back. I reversed the top & temps went up. I think that the top is the natural place to exhaust. I also tried the positive pressure approach & temps went up that way as well.


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Please define
> "open cooler"
> "blower cooler"
> *bottom intake fan right next tot the CPU" ( R4 has bottom fan but CPU near top of case)
> "open cooler card"
> 
> I assume by "open cooler" and "open cooler card" you are referring to passive coolers on CPU and GPU; and "blower cooler" is fan cooled cooler.


Woops I meant GPU. My bad.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Woops I meant GPU. My bad.


**shakes head and sighs** so unanswered / undefined and not even remotely understandable.


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Woops I meant GPU. My bad.
> 
> 
> 
> **shakes head and sighs** so unanswered / undefined and not even remotely understandable.
Click to expand...

Sorry. I just want to know if http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202024&nm_mc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r&cm_mmc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r-_-Video+Cards-_-Sapphire+Tech-_-14202024 will make my other components overheat, as opposed to http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161404

Again, I have an R4 with all the vents blocked and a bottom intake fan near the PSU.


----------



## a pet rock

Blower cooler



Open cooler



A blower type GPU cooling system has one fan on the end that pushes air across the card out the back through a heatsink. The open (or some other term I can't recall) is more like your standard CPU heatsink. The key difference being the blower vents out the back of the case while the open vents into the middle of the case. Only a problem if the middle area of your case has a dead air pocket that just keeps heating up.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Sorry. I just want to know if http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202024&nm_mc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r&cm_mmc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r-_-Video+Cards-_-Sapphire+Tech-_-14202024 will make my other components overheat, as opposed to http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161404
> 
> Again, I have an R4 with all the vents blocked and a bottom intake fan near the PSU.


In my experience, the open ones are better on the noise/cooling ratio. I don't know what you mean by all vents blocked, but if you have intake at front, top front, and bottom you shouldn't have a problem the case exhausting heatsink.


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> Blower cooler
> 
> 
> 
> Open cooler
> 
> 
> 
> A blower type GPU cooling system has one fan on the end that pushes air across the card out the back through a heatsink. The open (or some other term I can't recall) is more like your standard CPU heatsink. The key difference being the blower vents out the back of the case while the open vents into the middle of the case. Only a problem if the middle area of your case has a dead air pocket that just keeps heating up.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Sorry. I just want to know if http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202024&nm_mc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r&cm_mmc=OTC-pr1c3grabb3r-_-Video+Cards-_-Sapphire+Tech-_-14202024 will make my other components overheat, as opposed to http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161404
> 
> Again, I have an R4 with all the vents blocked and a bottom intake fan near the PSU.
> 
> 
> 
> In my experience, the open ones are better on the noise/cooling ratio. I don't know what you mean by all vents blocked, but if you have intake at front, top front, and bottom you shouldn't have a problem the case exhausting heatsink.
Click to expand...

The R4 has moduvents on the side and top. I blocked them for more noise dampening air flow isn't the greatest in my case. Do you think I could use the open coolers without getting my other components to overheat? I have one intake fan at the front and one intake fan at the bottom. I use my CPU cooler as my exhaust. I blocked the side vents and all the top vents.

I also have a drive cage blocking my front fan, because I was afraid that my HDD would overheat.


----------



## doyll

Either one should be fine in R4.


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> The R4 has moduvents on the side and top. I blocked them for more noise dampening air flow isn't the greatest in my case. Do you think I could use the open coolers without getting my other components to overheat? I have one intake fan at the front and one intake fan at the bottom. I use my CPU cooler as my exhaust. I blocked the side vents and all the top vents.
> I also have a drive cage blocking my front fan, because I was afraid that my HDD would overheat.


With only one card and two intake fans, I think you'll be fine with either. But if you decide to go crossfire, and get another case-exhausting card you might think about getting some more intake fans.


----------



## kevindd992002

With my Accelero Hybrid Cooler, initially I placed the rad/fan combo as an intake in my bottom fan slot (it's only 120mm) and the hot air from the rad was directed towards the intake fan of the GPU shroud. This made temps 57C at full load. I then tried installing as an exhaust and it immediately dropped temps to 46C.

From our conversations before, you never recommended setting the bottom fan as exhaust. Why is that? I have it setup as an exhaust now due to the reason above and what do you think I'm losing? Will it interfere with the wind tunnel positive pressure effect we did with our case?


----------



## doyll

Air is fickled beach. On all the setup's I've done having bottom as intake worked very good. Now you go and throw a curve into the equation.








Will have to check on a couple of the builds and see it it will work better with bottom exhaust now.









Last build we took the stock cover and fans off of the HD7950 and strapped on a couple of 120mm fans. Temps dropped 7-10c. Also have the 4 unused PCI slot covers removed with filter on them because the GPU is sucking air in from the back... even with 2x 140mm front and 1x 140mm bottom intakes. Air, you are a beach sometimes!!


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Air is fickled beach. On all the setup's I've done having bottom as intake worked very good. Now you go and throw a curve into the equation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Will have to check on a couple of the builds and see it it will work better with bottom exhaust now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Last build we took the stock cover and fans off of the HD7950 and strapped on a couple of 120mm fans. Temps dropped 7-10c. Also have the 4 unused PCI slot covers removed with filter on them because the GPU is sucking air in from the back... even with 2x 140mm front and 1x 140mm bottom intakes. Air, you are a beach sometimes!!


Lol, yeah. But the thing is with mine set as an intake, it directly blows hot air to the GPU which makes the GPU PCB and all other components cooled by the 80mm GPU intake fan very hot as well.

Well, what is the disadvantage of setting it up as an exhaust anyway?


----------



## doyll

No disadvantage. It's all about what cools best.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> No disadvantage. It's all about what cools best.


Well yeah but I'm just worried that the rad fan and the GPU fan are working against each other. The intake side of the rad fan is pulling air stronger than how the intake side of the GPU fan pulls air mainly because of the size difference, 120mm vs. 80mm, respectively. Wouldn't that produce a dead spot in the center or so?


----------



## doyll

Your reason for reversing the bottom fan was to improve GPU cooling. GPU is cooler. End of.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Your reason for reversing the bottom fan was to improve GPU cooling. GPU is cooler. End of.


Well, I want to know what happens to the wind tunnel effect, if there is enough air going to the intake of the GPU fan (because it fights with the intake of the rad fan, and if the other heatsinks on my GPU are cooled effectively. The only thing I'm sure is cooler os yhe GPU core. So it's not the end of discussion.


----------



## doyll

Is anyone else using TY-140 series fans as case fans?


----------



## j3ssi3

Great discussion it is very helpful to me. I'm newbie on this kind of stuff.


----------



## alancsalt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Your reason for reversing the bottom fan was to improve GPU cooling. GPU is cooler. End of.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I want to know what happens to the wind tunnel effect, if there is enough air going to the intake of the GPU fan (because it fights with the intake of the rad fan, and if the other heatsinks on my GPU are cooled effectively. The only thing I'm sure is cooler os yhe GPU core. So it's not the end of discussion.
Click to expand...

This is a frequently debated question, without an answer that everyone agrees on. Ultimately "whatever works for you and your hardware" is your answer.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alancsalt*
> 
> This is a frequently debated question, without an answer that everyone agrees on. Ultimately "whatever works for you and your hardware" is your answer.


Ah. I wonder though why ehume never recommended setting the bottom fan as an exhaust? He always says to make it as intake.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> With my Accelero Hybrid Cooler, initially I placed the rad/fan combo as an intake in my bottom fan slot (it's only 120mm) and the hot air from the rad was directed towards the intake fan of the GPU shroud. This made temps 57C at full load. I then tried installing as an exhaust and it immediately dropped temps to 46C.
> 
> From our conversations before, you never recommended setting the bottom fan as exhaust. Why is that? I have it setup as an exhaust now due to the reason above and what do you think I'm losing? Will it interfere with the wind tunnel positive pressure effect we did with our case?


Excellent wok! I never mentioned the possibility because I was concerned about reingestion of the warmed air, and because most AIO coolers cannot reach far enough to have a bottom mount Congratulations on your discovery.

As for will they work against each other, the answer is no, or at least negligibly so. Again, congrats on finding a new cooling method.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Excellent wok! I never mentioned the possibility because I was concerned about reingestion of the warmed air, and because most AIO coolers cannot reach far enough to have a bottom mount Congratulations on your discovery.
> 
> As for will they work against each other, the answer is no, or at least negligibly so. Again, congrats on finding a new cooling method.


Thanks!










Why won't they work against each other? I'm just curious.


----------



## eBombzor

Hey guys help me out. My 7870 XT goes up to 73 C in Valley inside my R4 and I want to lower the temps w/out adding fans. I have an intake fan at the bottom and in the front and I rotated the hard drive cage.

What kind of fan configs should I try out?


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Hey guys help me out. My 7870 XT goes up to 73 C in Valley inside my R4 and I want to lower the temps w/out adding fans. I have an intake fan at the bottom and in the front and I rotated the hard drive cage.
> 
> What kind of fan configs should I try out?


Try removing the rear PCI slot covers to let more air flow out. Also try removing the top HDD cage altogether. What fans are you using?

A picture of your system would be helpful.


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Hey guys help me out. My 7870 XT goes up to 73 C in Valley inside my R4 and I want to lower the temps w/out adding fans. I have an intake fan at the bottom and in the front and I rotated the hard drive cage.
> 
> What kind of fan configs should I try out?
> 
> 
> 
> Try removing the rear PCI slot covers to let more air flow out. Also try removing the top HDD cage altogether. What fans are you using?
> 
> A picture of your system would be helpful.
Click to expand...

Meh... I kinda want those PCI slots on. I'll try removing the HDD cage.


----------



## solsamurai

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Meh... I kinda want those PCI slots on. I'll try removing the HDD cage.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


Think about it. How often to do actually see those PCI slot covers? Depends on where your system is located of course but it really opens up the amount of warm air the can escape out the back. When you're going for a quiet gaming system temps will always be higher.


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solsamurai*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Meh... I kinda want those PCI slots on. I'll try removing the HDD cage.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Think about it. How often to do actually see those PCI slot covers? Depends on where your system is located of course but it really opens up the amount of warm air the can escape out the back. When you're going for a quiet gaming system temps will always be higher.
Click to expand...

Yea but more dust and spiders will get.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Yea but more dust and spiders will get.


Not at all because the air is coming out of the back. Unless you keep your computer off all the time


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Yea but more dust and spiders will get.
> 
> 
> 
> Not at all because the air is coming out of the back. Unless you keep your computer off all the time
Click to expand...

Well it's off for the night.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Hey let them spideys have a cozy cave to sleep in, don'tt be so mean


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Hey let them spideys have a cozy cave to sleep in, don'tt be so mean


Lol!


----------



## ivanlabrie

I'm considering building a glass case/test bench thing.
Any suggestions for a good air cooling layout in a small footprint that would work with a horizontal mobo tray? (I need to be able to use it as a test bench too and it would be matx)


----------



## doyll

@eBombzor
*What speed are you running your case fans?
*Removing the PCI covers will either let air in or push air out. Either way you GPU may run cooler. If it lets air in scouring pads from cheap shop make great filters. Similar to these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-X-HEAVY-DUTY-GREEN-SCOURING-PADS-/130847209226?pt=UK_Kitchen_Accessories&hash=item1e7719f70a
*Move your HDD up into optical bay and remove both HDD cages.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Or velcro the hdd's vertically on both sides of the case, leaving space for air to pass through. Velcro ssd somehwere else if need be.
He may have a use for a 5.25 fan too...


----------



## doyll

Many ways to secure them. Velcro will isolate HDD vibration noise too.









R4 uses 140mm fans.

Helped a mate setup a 3750K @ 4.5GHz under SA SB-E Extreme and VTX3D Radeon HD 7950 X-Edition V3 w/cover & fans removed & 2x Arctic F12 TC fans. This is in an R4 w/ 3x TY-147 intake fans and everything is below 60c at full load. 2x front TY-147 are PWM controlled by CPU and bottom TY-147 is PWM controlled by GPU. Case is silent even when CPU is full load. When gaming you can hear GPU but not near as loud as it was stock and 10c cooler than stock.


----------



## kevindd992002

For this case, would removing the HDD cage and the 140mm fan that is tied with the cage produce more airflow than the current setup?


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> @eBombzor
> *What speed are you running your case fans?
> *Removing the PCI covers will either let air in or push air out. Either way you GPU may run cooler. If it lets air in scouring pads from cheap shop make great filters. Similar to these
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10-X-HEAVY-DUTY-GREEN-SCOURING-PADS-/130847209226?pt=UK_Kitchen_Accessories&hash=item1e7719f70a
> *Move your HDD up into optical bay and remove both HDD cages.


7v

For now I'm leaving them on.

I don't see the point since there isn't a fan blowing in front of the bottom HDD cage.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Many ways to secure them. Velcro will isolate HDD vibration noise too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> R4 uses 140mm fans.
> 
> Helped a mate setup a 3750K @ 4.5GHz under SA SB-E Extreme and VTX3D Radeon HD 7950 X-Edition V3 w/cover & fans removed & 2x Arctic F12 TC fans. This is in an R4 w/ 3x TY-147 intake fans and everything is below 60c at full load. 2x front TY-147 are PWM controlled by CPU and bottom TY-147 is PWM controlled by GPU. Case is silent even when CPU is full load. When gaming you can hear GPU but not near as loud as it was stock and 10c cooler than stock.


Very nice man! You strapped regular 120mm fans on the gpu shroud/heatsink or what? Got any pics?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> 7v
> For now I'm leaving them on.
> I don't see the point since there isn't a fan blowing in front of the bottom HDD cage.


You asked us for help, than won't do anything we suggest to improve your cooling.


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> 7v
> For now I'm leaving them on.
> I don't see the point since there isn't a fan blowing in front of the bottom HDD cage.
> 
> 
> 
> You asked us for help, than won't do anything we suggest to improve your cooling.
Click to expand...

I just don't want any 5 1/2 adapters for the HDD. I try out all the suggestions people have for me.


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> For this case, would removing the HDD cage and the 140mm fan that is tied with the cage produce more airflow than the current setup?


I would say yes because disturbance does weird things to airflow. But there's no way to know until you try it.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> For this case, would removing the HDD cage and the 140mm fan that is tied with the cage produce more airflow than the current setup?
> 
> 
> 
> I would say yes because disturbance does weird things to airflow. But there's no way to know until you try it.
Click to expand...

Amen.

The rest of you guys have good advice too.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> I would say yes because disturbance does weird things to airflow. But there's no way to know until you try it.


If I try it, how would I know if it's better? Lower temps with the GPU?


----------



## a pet rock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> If I try it, how would I know if it's better? Lower temps with the GPU?


That's the goal isn't it? Would better airflow be worth achieving if it didn't get you lower temps/noise?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> That's the goal isn't it? Would better airflow be worth achieving if it didn't get you lower temps/noise?


Yeah but not only for the GPU but for all other motherboard components.


----------



## kevindd992002

Here's my case setup:



Please feel free to suggest any changes


----------



## ehume

Segregated your GPU and CPU airflows. Excellent. Now you could blow hot air from your rad in the bottom of the case without adding heat load to your CPU.

But you tested it with the rad intaking and exhausting. Exhausting took the GPU temp from 57c to 46c. Testing it both ways is your killer app.

Dual fans in a tandem rig on your HD cage gives you a push-pull environment for cooling your spinning disks, and an accelerated outflow that feeds both the rad at the bottom and the fan on your GPU hybrid cooler. Plenty of air for both devices.

The only possible thing I could suggest is to take your SSD and Velcro it up out of your airflow. I would keep a watch on the drive's temp because you live in the Philippines, where the ambient can get high. Then I would move both spinning disk HD's into the main airflow, and keep a slot open between them. This should maximize the cooling, which lengthens the life of your drives.

Overall, a fine setup. Thanks for sharing. +rep


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Segregated your GPU and CPU airflows. Excellent. Now you could blow hot air from your rad in the bottom of the case without adding heat load to your CPU.
> 
> But you tested it with the rad intaking and exhausting. Exhausting took the GPU temp from 57c to 46c. Testing it both ways is your killer app.
> 
> Dual fans in a tandem rig on your HD cage gives you a push-pull environment for cooling your spinning disks, and an accelerated outflow that feeds both the rad at the bottom and the fan on your GPU hybrid cooler. Plenty of air for both devices.
> 
> The only possible thing I could suggest is to take your SSD and Velcro it up out of your airflow. I would keep a watch on the drive's temp because you live in the Philippines, where the ambient can get high. Then I would move both spinning disk HD's into the main airflow, and keep a slot open between them. This should maximize the cooling, which lengthens the life of your drives.
> 
> Overall, a fine setup. Thanks for sharing. +rep


Oh and I almsot forgot, my side panel also has an intake 200mm CM Storm Force fan similar to my 200mm front fan which adds more airflow to the CPU and GPU









Interesting. Actually, the mechanical HDD in the middle is a temporary drive specifically used just for OC'ing (to avoid OS corruption). My main OS drive would be the SSD and the bottom mechanical HDD would be the main storage drive. Now which slot should I use for my storage drive to be IN THE MAIN AIRFLOW? The 200mm front fan's airflow is not directional, right?

EDIT: Also, I noticed that the mid fan (pull fan) of my case is somewhat not in the center between the GPU and the rad. Should I lower it down for it to be perfectly center?


----------



## ehume

Kevin -

The principle is to keep the drives you use in the middleof the airflow for best cooling. As for placement of the mid-case fan, try various positions and test your cooling.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Kevin -
> 
> The principle is to keep the drives you use in the middleof the airflow for best cooling. As for placement of the mid-case fan, try various positions and test your cooling.


Ok. Yes, but where is the middle of the airflow? Middle of the 200mm front fan?


----------



## ladcrooks

I have the air coming from the front and only exhausted from the back - case Lian Li PC-B10

I took the hd caddy out and placed hard drive on a piece of hardened type plastic foam for vibration for better air flow. I hate cases with side vents, more noise to my way of thinking.


----------



## ladcrooks

Talking of cooling. I only have 3 case fans - 2 at front one at back.

Then you have the psu fan and gpu fan. I find my setup very quite. And temps real good.

But do you think if we allow higher temps in most situations well within the realm of gpu/cpu saftey etc, it would be better for acoustics?

What I am trying to say some people may go overboard with the amount of fans


----------



## mikeo01

Hi noticed this great thread, many thanks









Was wondering if anyone can suggest where I may be going wrong or how to improve it.

A kind member suggested creating a sort of duct, and looking on it it's kind of impossible without having the length of the case being separated.

NOTE: I will be changing all my fans for Thermalright TY-143 soon, not entirely sure about the top one yet. My "side" panel is going to be acrylic so I only have top and intake and rear.

Reason why, OP you posted a create idea which suits my case design. I may go ahead and strip out the rear vent.



So, basically I got rid of my HDD cage and am left with a lovely empty 5.25 bay from top to bottom to play with. It allows for 2x 140mm fans with space to spare. I currently have the fans tied up and resting on a bottom DVD RW drive (only way to get it to stay still







). My HDD is hanging by a single screw on top of my SSD, with DVD underneath, yeah they're stacked on top of each other.

Thanks all!







it's not originally black. HEC 66RC (a.k.a HEC blitz with stuff missing)

Mike


----------



## mikeo01

Also quick question, if I do remove the rear grill could I install one of these? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/321072065319?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Purely so I don't catch my fingers and to have most airflow as possible


----------



## ehume

mikeo01 -

I don't think I would stack my HD drives on anything. I like their sides to cool.

The eBay unit you identified is a finger guard. It keeps fingers out of where you want them.

I think after you remove your rear grill you won't need a rear fan.

Happy modding.


----------



## mikeo01

Hi thanks for the reply,

There is some room underneath it, it's mainly the cables that are holding it up. The reason I did it was to get the front as unobstructed as possible to get as much airflow. Any suggestions on what I should do with them, I only have an SSD and HDD, my DVD is on its way out and I was thinking about going external so I may not even have a DVD drive soon.

As for the fan guard, would it actually obstruct airflow? The reason being is I have the tendency to hold the rear mesh and front to pick up my case, so yeah, I may accidently get a hand full of heatsink or worse still a nice shock







unless there is an alternative way for some cover on the back?

Thanks!!


----------



## doyll

What ehume said.


----------



## mikeo01

Sorry what I meant was I am not going to put rear fan in, I meant a guard so I don't stick my hand through a big gaping hole







so was wondering if positive pressure will stick work


----------



## doyll

Didn't your Momma teach you not to stick your hands into big holes?










Even a finger guard will restrict a little airflow. But if you can't resist sticking your hands into big holes by all means use a finger guard.


----------



## mikeo01

The temptation is too high, a guard would only restrict my desire









But hmm, how easy is the wire to snap? Seen as I will be using side cutters to rip out the rear maybe I could take some wires off a fan guard?


----------



## doyll

Try it with and without finger guard and see what the difference is. I probably won't make a difference.

At least not enough to worry about.


----------



## mikeo01

Thanks I will give it a go soon









Also reason being for some odd reason my SB, NB and VRMs are all got warmer suddenly over last week so want heat to exit quickly.


----------



## ehume

Finger guards are more like small gauge rods than thick wires. They don't bend.


----------



## mikeo01

Ah right thank you!







the grill I posted above looks quite thin and cheap so hopefully it won't effect airflow too much.

I will see what the rear looks like without any grill.

Thanks for everyone's help!


----------



## sweetoxic

hello

i have bitfenix prodigy case..
i want to ask what air fan should i buy for my case...
there are :
1 140mm fan at rare
2 120mm fan at top
1 140mm fan at front

i want the silent one but it good for air flow...( i know its impossible T_T)

nb : i dont have hetsink for my procesor(i5 3750) but in future i will use corsair H series


----------



## ohhgourami

For 120mm, Be Quiet! Silent Wings 2 or Noctua NF-S12A

For 140mm, Silent Wings 2, NF-A14/15, and Thermalright TY-140/141

Best noise/airflow ratio fans.


----------



## Kornivsky

Hello!

I have InWin dragonraider case.
I'm in need of good airflow here. I got an side 220mm intake,2 at top as exhaust,1 at rear as exhaust.

Any solutions for good airflow here?
I would really appreciate any help here!!

All best.
- Kornivsky.


----------



## Kornivsky

Hello!

I have InWin dragonraider case.
I'm in need of good airflow here. I got an side 220mm intake,2 at top as exhaust,1 at rear as exhaust. Thouse 3 exhausts are 120mm or 140mm.

Any solutions for good airflow here?
I would really appreciate any help here!!

All best.
- Kornivsky.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kornivsky*
> 
> Hello!
> 
> I have InWin dragonraider case.
> I'm in need of good airflow here. I got an side 220mm intake,2 at top as exhaust,1 at rear as exhaust. Thouse 3 exhausts are 120mm or 140mm.
> 
> Any solutions for good airflow here?
> I would really appreciate any help here!!
> 
> All best.
> - Kornivsky.


Looks decent...you got mesh in the front. Try to fit a 120mm fan in the 5.25" drive bays below your optical drive (or a 140mm if you don't use an optical drive). Then cut the rear exhaust fan grill and remove the exhaust fan if you have a tower cooler facing that way in push/pull.
Side intake will make airflow messy, unless you have more than one graphics card (exhaust would be good then).
Add your components to your signature please.


----------



## Kornivsky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Looks decent...you got mesh in the front. Try to fit a 120mm fan in the 5.25" drive bays below your optical drive (or a 140mm if you don't use an optical drive). Then cut the rear exhaust fan grill and remove the exhaust fan if you have a tower cooler facing that way in push/pull.
> Side intake will make airflow messy, unless you have more than one graphics card (exhaust would be good then).
> Add your components to your signature please.


Hello! Thanks for your reply! I'm sorry,but I'm not really understanding you here!! I'll put some pictures here,so you can say me,what to do exactly!! I'm sorry for quality of pictures!!!

Thanks in advance!!!

*Picture 1*

Intake right to my CPU/MB.

http://www.bildites.lv/viewer.php?file=apsmf6whqeaxueiyak5.jpg

*Picture 2*

Next to my INWIN sign I can place an fan..

http://www.bildites.lv/viewer.php?file=garqp8s3dxmxbaa473kj.jpg

*Picture 3*

220mm fan as intake (tape didnt came with my case).

http://www.bildites.lv/viewer.php?file=p3trq3jm4ioitm3ftlzv.jpg

*Picture 4*

120x120 exhaust

http://www.bildites.lv/viewer.php?file=2ngevoyxx9n4f47orkhb.jpg

*Picture 5*

2 x 120x120 exhaust

http://www.bildites.lv/viewer.php?file=0j70bhsjr0408s88t03.jpg


----------



## ivanlabrie

Bolded reply inside the quote.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kornivsky*
> 
> Hello! Thanks for your reply! I'm sorry,but I'm not really understanding you here!! I'll put some pictures here,so you can say me,what to do exactly!! I'm sorry for quality of pictures!!!
> 
> Thanks in advance!!!
> 
> *Picture 1*
> 
> Intake right to my CPU/MB.
> 
> *Useless fan...*
> http://www.bildites.lv/viewer.php?file=apsmf6whqeaxueiyak5.jpg
> 
> *Picture 2*
> 
> Next to my INWIN sign I can place an fan..
> 
> *Place an intake fan there, and put an extra 120mm intake inside the 5.25 drive bays, where you'd put an optical drive.
> You can use double sided tape or foam to hold it in place.*
> 
> http://www.bildites.lv/viewer.php?file=garqp8s3dxmxbaa473kj.jpg
> 
> *Picture 3*
> 
> 220mm fan as intake (tape didnt came with my case).
> 
> *Up to you, I wouldn't use it, or leave it be. I'd just mod the side panel to have a window really
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> http://www.bildites.lv/viewer.php?file=p3trq3jm4ioitm3ftlzv.jpg
> 
> *Picture 4*
> 
> 120x120 exhaust
> 
> http://www.bildites.lv/viewer.php?file=2ngevoyxx9n4f47orkhb.jpg
> 
> *Remove it and cut the grill restricting airflow (you can use that fan as a mid case fan, which should be placed next to the graphics card, pulling air accross the hdd cages and towards the gpu, remove the pci slot covers too)*
> 
> *Picture 5*
> 
> 2 x 120x120 exhaust
> 
> *Remove the exhaust closer to the back of the case and revert the more forward positioned top fan as an intake.*
> 
> http://www.bildites.lv/viewer.php?file=0j70bhsjr0408s88t03.jpg


----------



## mikeo01

Right, rear is all cut and done. But wondering if anyone knows a way to remove the rough edges around the hole? My side cutters are small but can't cut the loose area. The first pic will explain what I mean, I don't want to cut my hand basically









*BUT* for now I have wrapped vinyl around it to cover it up for the time being, should I just leave it or any tools (I don't any electrical tools, just manual) to get rid of it?


----------



## ehume

Rough edges around the hole yield to a nibbler.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Rough edges around the hole yield to a nibbler.


Yeah!


----------



## mikeo01

Thanks, it would do the job but its quite expensive for a single job


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikeo01*
> 
> Thanks, it would do the job but its quite expensive for a single job


Other uses will arise.


----------



## Kornivsky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Bolded reply inside the quote.


Hey!

What should I do with that fan,with you can see on *Picture 1*?

At *Picture 2*,I placed 120x120 fan next to InWin sign. I've got free place in 5.25 bay,but I don't have so much coolers.

At *Picture 5* I removed the exhaust closer to the back of the case and blocked,also reverted other fan as intake.

So,my questions are....what should I do with fan,with you can see on *Picture 1*? Place it inside of 5.25 bay? I've got very much air comming out from 5.25 bay,if I remove plastic I can feel it...,.I feel I've got now negative air setup...


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kornivsky*
> 
> Hey!
> 
> What should I do with that fan,with you can see on *Picture 1*?
> 
> At *Picture 2*,I placed 120x120 fan next to InWin sign. I've got free place in 5.25 bay,but I don't have so much coolers.
> 
> At *Picture 5* I removed the exhaust closer to the back of the case and blocked,also reverted other fan as intake.
> 
> So,my questions are....what should I do with fan,with you can see on *Picture 1*? Place it inside of 5.25 bay? I've got very much air comming out from 5.25 bay,if I remove plastic I can feel it...,.I feel I've got now negative air setup...


The fan in picture 1 can act as a 5.25 bay intake, or a mid case fan attached to your hdd drive cage pointing at your gpu.


----------



## Kornivsky

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> The fan in picture 1 can act as a 5.25 bay intake, or a mid case fan attached to your hdd drive cage pointing at your gpu.


Hey! Thanks a lot! I will try that,when I'll get home from work..we'll see,if that will change something with my temps. I remember when I had an exhaust or intake on my top of cpu,my idle cpu temp was 29-31C. Now,when I did all,what you said,my cpu idles at 34-35C.
Maybe rhis kind of airflow aint so good,as it should be?


----------



## ivanlabrie

idle doesn't mean much, plus you gotta monitor the ambient temps in your room (ideally in front of the intake fans).
If the room temp changed chances are the temps are higher cause of that.


----------



## mikeo01

Pictures as promised for munching out the rear area. Used this nibbler from HERE



Not finished yet just showing you how much I cut out. Originally:



Definitely helps with the temperatures. Just used prime originally temperatures were 50+, it struggled to get over 48c, hitting 49c now and again. IDLED at 35c now 30c.

Motherboard temperatures (yay) dropped, 22c on full load, idling at the moment at 26c, was 30c-33c.

HDD was usually hitting 28c-30c, now hitting at 24c idle.

GPU benefits, 26c was hitting 30-32c idle.

That hole really does make a difference you can feel a slight breeze when fans are low, when ramped up it really just chuck out any air in the case, the back is pretty much empty.


----------



## doyll

I do love it when the back grill comes out of a case.









I'd suggest a shroud/duct from cooler to vent opening but things are great now. It's so good to be cool.


----------



## mikeo01

Yeah it looks a lot better







just got to file it a bit and I am done.

Also, I decided to cut (Destroy!) my top panel. There was two grills for two 120mm fans there. Again need to file it down, but that's the idea

*Munched*


*How it Looks from the inside*


----------



## wntrsnowg

Thanks for the thread. Randomly came across this when thinking about fan arrangement. Moved fans around to what you suggested and i've seen a ~4C drop idle and load. Repped


----------



## arckham

Awesome thread we have here.

I am now finally brave enough to mod my case and would really appreciate feedback from people who know what they're talking about before I actually start.



I removed the side and front panels to replace with clear acrylic. Now what I'd like to do is mount 4 120 fans on the side panel to intake (dark blue) and 3 on front to exhaust (orange). The two upper intakes blow directly at the north bridge and CPU, the lower ones blow at the south bridge and GPU.

The areas filled maroon on the picture are two grills I'd leave fanless and the slotted PCI grills. These three will provide passive exhaust. The case has no openings on top.

Facts:
-4 intakes, 3 active exhausts, 3 passive exhausts.
-3 hard drives and 1 SSD along the two lower exhausts (forgot to put in the pic)
-CPU cooler is stock AMD. Will upgrade to H80 sooner or later.
-GPU is pretty big. AMD 6870.
-I have pretty good cable management for a non-pro builder, so wires should affect airflow very little.
-Orientation doesn't matter coz it will face sideways on the desk with the front to my right, rear to my left, and intake side facing me (putting the I/Os and power button on the side panel).

Here are my questions.
1. Is this a good idea to begin with? Posting this, definitely I think it is, but if it's not, please do tell me why.
2. If yes or sort of yes for #1, would it be better to have my PSU's intake pointed down and have its own airflow, or upward and contribute to the rest of the case?
3. Would it be better if I swap acrylic for perforated mesh, Lanboy Air style? Dust-wise and temp-wise, that is.


----------



## Tyreman

Playing about with Antec 1100 has P280 side panels

Removed the top Big boy fan and all of '1100's supplied fans

Placed a Noctua NF-150 mm / A 15 PWM as top intake, forward as possible on 1100 top grille, LNA installed
Blocked unused part of grille.
Silverstone 140 mm magnetic fine mesh filter, no ribs on top
Tied together with Noctua NH-D 14 cooler's 2 PWM fans via Gelid PWM splitter.
No speed adapters.

Another Noctua NF-F12 PWM running full input not PWM'd behind uppper filtered front optical bays.
Only fan I had left that size, 120x120
This blows into Noctua NH-D14 cooler.

At front of case, behind filter has 2 Noctua NF-P12 fans with blue speed adapters bringing air into case

On other side of hard drives mount, on highest level for snap in fan install, another NF-P12 Noctua with blue speed adapters pulling air thru

Of course rear exhaust cut out and wire grilled ...have mounted a Noctua NF-S12A FLX there on and off.
Seems pretty even steven with or without rear fan present
slot covers out etc

Edit:
Cut hole in case bottom between hd pillars and power supply
Installed Noctua NF-P12, on black speed adapter pulling air in
Silverstone magnetic filter on underside, wire grille topside.


----------



## Rakanishu

Hi guys,

So I just registered to the forum for this particular topic. ;D
I have been interested in air cooling for computer cases for at least two days and have grown some experience (!!).
Note that I do not own a computer myself (only a laptop) and have never ever modded one.

Thus you understand my position to propose you this air cooling design :



That is applied to a Corsair 300R case but would work with other cases as long as they have the right openings and not too much stuff inside.
Did someone already test something similar and have an opinion on the proposal/ways to improve it?

That particular setup represents 4 intakes for 2 exhausts (note that the two intakes in front have reduced pressure/CFM).

What would you advise as fans for such a setup? Better get higher stattic pressure (Air Penetrator-like) or epic CFM and where?
I guess that fans that create high velocity flow (high static pressure) would not be a great idea for top/side intakes since they would break the main stream.

Would high velocity flow at front + medium CFM top and side + high or medium CFM exhausts work?
As well, top intake and exhaust could be PWM controlled through CPU temperature while the other ones could be manually tuned.

Thanks for the feedback!


----------



## pooter

Corsair 300r has 3 5.25 inch bays you also have to option of getting a mesh grill up front and putting a 140 fan there to give it a direct line to your CPU cooler assuming you don't use any of the bays. Kind of curious about that ramp tho lol.


----------



## Rakanishu

I wouldnt use any of the bay so I could turn it into a fan.
I expect it to be especially ugly though. ;D

Would it be a lot better than the intake at top to cool the CPU?

Edit : for the ramp I have to see how it fits with the cables though. That is still design phase ahah.


----------



## TELVM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> ... For many years I have built ducts to isolate cool intake from hot exhaust with good results on CPU & GPU... usually using card stock or hanging folder material. Have you ever tried it?


Yep I have.

    

@ 25 ºC ambient this Phenom II 960T unlocked to X6 & OCed to 4.1GHz idles at 33 ºC ( Δ8 ºC). At full afterburner it stays at 53 ºC ( Δ28 ºC).

I also got these ideas from fiddling with car engines







. Would like to see pics of your solutions Doyll.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TELVM*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> ... For many years I have built ducts to isolate cool intake from hot exhaust with good results on CPU & GPU... usually using card stock or hanging folder material. Have you ever tried it?
> 
> 
> 
> Yep I have.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @ 25 ºC ambient this Phenom II 960T unlocked to X6 & OCed to 4.1GHz idles at 33 ºC ( Δ8 ºC). At full afterburner it stays at 53 ºC ( Δ18 ºC).
> 
> I also got these ideas from fiddling with car engines
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Would like to see pics of your solutions Doyll.
Click to expand...

Very clean and professional! Beautifully done!








I am humbled by the time and quality of your duct.









None of mine compare to yours.









Duct on TC14PE venting out back


Am now experimenting with duct /box between TC14PE and mobo with cutouts to channel air to mobo heatsinks. This has lowered NB temps by 3-5c (52c max)

Duct on TC14PE fit around fan to top vent


New duct for top of TC14PE to top vent


Noctua NH-U12P w/ 2x custom fan shrouds for TY-140 fans and duct out top


Older system from years ago with exhaust ducts on both CPU and GPU


----------



## TELVM

Thanks, that's great stuff Doyll







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*


I've been toying with this idea _(both dedicated intake & exhaust ducts for the CPU heatsink)_, but never really implemented the exhaust part. Bet it's a blessing for CPU temps. However it would worry me that be dedicating the rear top 120~140 fan/hole in excusive for the CPU we could be compromising case ventilation and particularly GPU/s temps, specially with the PCI slots closed. Didn't that CPU exhaust duct influence your GPU temps?

Quote:


>


Your origami skills are far superior to mine







, I would never have bothered with an hexagonal or octagonal chimney, plain square it would have been







.

Unless it's absolutely unavoidable I try to not position CPU heatsinks North-to-South, in that orientation the GPU almost always acts as a restrictive wall just in front of the pusher fan







. I hate flow restrictions with a passion







.

Those fan shrouds for the TY-140s look superbly machined!























Speaking of GPU ducts ... _(please try your best for not laughing too loud







)_ ... :


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



       



As guetto as they come







but works like a charm: Now at 26C ambient that HD 6870 is idling @ 37C ( Δ 11C ) without a sound _(as opposed to the aircraft carrier deck like noise from the original centrifugal blower







)._ This whole comp is inaudible at 50cm .

And if you're still unsure about my aerodynamics crazyness, this will dispel any doubt







:


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TELVM*
> 
> Thanks, that's great stuff Doyll
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I've been toying with this idea _(both dedicated intake & exhaust ducts for the CPU heatsink)_, but never really implemented the exhaust part. Bet it's a blessing for CPU temps. However it would worry me that be dedicating the rear top 120~140 fan/hole in excusive for the CPU we could be compromising case ventilation and particularly GPU/s temps, specially with the PCI slots closed. Didn't that CPU exhaust duct influence your GPU temps?


We only need to keep the hot exhaust separate from cool intake. Nothing more. In my case (no pun) the GPU is (was, it died) a passive cooling Gigabyle HD5770 Silent Cell. The top vents on case were open and there were 2x TY-140 front intakes and 1x TY-140 bottom intake with case raised on caster base having 45mm clearance for airflow to bottom fan.

Quote:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your origami skills are far superior to mine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , I would never have bothered with an hexagonal or octagonal chimney, plain square it would have been
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Unless it's absolutely unavoidable I try to not position CPU heatsinks North-to-South, in that orientation the GPU almost always acts as a restrictive wall just in front of the pusher fan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I hate flow restrictions with a passion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


All I did was wrap the duct material (cut up a hanging file folder) and wrapped it around the fan, glue stick the overlap and rattle can black paint to reinforce the duct and improve the color from the normal green of file folder.









Quote:


> Those fan shrouds for the TY-140s look superbly machined!


I'm a custom wood worker so make them out of wood.

|[quoteSpeaking of GPU ducts ... _(please try your best for not laughing too loud







)_ ... :


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



http://www.picturepush.com/photo/a/13406848/img/13406848.jpg http://www.picturepush.com/photo/a/13406881/img/13406881.jpg http://www.picturepush.com/photo/a/13406912/img/13406912.jpg http://www.picturepush.com/photo/a/13406922/img/13406922.jpg http://www.picturepush.com/photo/a/13406933/img/13406933.jpg http://www.picturepush.com/photo/a/13406972/img/13406972.jpg http://www.picturepush.com/photo/a/13406985/img/13406985.jpg http://www.picturepush.com/photo/a/13407009/img/13407009.jpg



As guetto as they come







but works like a charm: Now at 26C ambient that HD 6870 is idling @ 37C ( Δ 11C ) without a sound _(as opposed to the aircraft carrier deck like noise from the original centrifugal blower







)._ This whole comp is inaudible at 50cm .[/QUOTE]
Looks fine to me.








Why did you build a duct under the computer instead of just letting air flow in from all sides?
Only suggestion for next time is make the duct under computer the same width as hole in bottom and same area as the 2x 120mm fans have. When air changes direction radiused corners flow better than square ones do. The smoother the lines of the duct the easier the air flows through it.

Quote:


> And if you're still unsure about my aerodynamics crazyness, this will dispel any doubt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


I don't see any radiused shrouds / velocity stack on fan intakes.


----------



## TELVM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> ... Why did you build a duct under the computer instead of just letting air flow in from all sides? ...


Well I wanted to capitalise on the dynamic pressure in the front of the vehicle







.

Jokes apart I'm intrigued by Ehume's concepts, thinking on modifying this case a bit more ...


----------



## Blooddrunk

Wow, today I was looking around in my case and saw a ton of dust buildup in between my CPU HSF and rear exhaust fan. Way back in the day I was always told that the rear exhaust fan is pretty crucial for getting air out, but it seemed like its doing the opposite here.

That was back in 2006 though. Then I found this thread looking for a solution to that.

I don't think I'll go as far as to cutting out the rear grille. But I'll definitely relocate the fan.


----------



## TELVM

Grills are evil, we must ruthlessly destroy them, no quarter, no remorse. The cause is just.










http://www.silverstonetek.com/techtalk_cont.php?tid=wh_chessis&area=en


----------



## a pet rock

I'm surprised the plain wire grill impeded airflow as much as it did. I know just a little bit of turbulence goes a long way, but that's comparable to the hexagonal vent.

Also, there's no way I'm ever going to run a pc without some physical obstruction in front of the fan. It's just far too hazardous for animals, kids, cables and drunk me.


----------



## doyll

Using fans with higher static pressure ratings helps overcome the grill resistance.
That is why I always suggest fans designed for coolers and radiators instead of "free air" fans.


----------



## Blooddrunk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> I'm surprised the plain wire grill impeded airflow as much as it did. I know just a little bit of turbulence goes a long way, but that's comparable to the hexagonal vent.
> 
> Also, there's no way I'm ever going to run a pc without some physical obstruction in front of the fan. It's just far too hazardous for animals, kids, cables and drunk me.


My main reason is sharp edges, and more of a chance of stupid bugs getting in my case. But yeah that graph is interesting.


----------



## Mule928

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TELVM*
> 
> Thanks, that's great stuff Doyll
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> I've been toying with this idea _(both dedicated intake & exhaust ducts for the CPU heatsink)_, but never really implemented the exhaust part. Bet it's a blessing for CPU temps. However it would worry me that be dedicating the rear top 120~140 fan/hole in excusive for the CPU we could be compromising case ventilation and particularly GPU/s temps, specially with the PCI slots closed. Didn't that CPU exhaust duct influence your GPU temps?
> Your origami skills are far superior to mine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , I would never have bothered with an hexagonal or octagonal chimney, plain square it would have been
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Unless it's absolutely unavoidable I try to not position CPU heatsinks North-to-South, in that orientation the GPU almost always acts as a restrictive wall just in front of the pusher fan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I hate flow restrictions with a passion
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Those fan shrouds for the TY-140s look superbly machined!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of GPU ducts ... _(please try your best for not laughing too loud
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )_ ... :
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As guetto as they come
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but works like a charm: Now at 26C ambient that HD 6870 is idling @ 37C ( Δ 11C ) without a sound _(as opposed to the aircraft carrier deck like noise from the original centrifugal blower
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )._ This whole comp is inaudible at 50cm .
> 
> And if you're still unsure about my aerodynamics crazyness, this will dispel any doubt
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :


I have a Silver Arrow cooker & have it turned towards the top of the case as well. Since heat rises & the top of my case has 2X 230mm exhaust fans I felt that made the most sense. I don't quite understand people that put intake fans on the top, sides, front, bottom and in the PS, and have 1 exhaust ran at the rear.


----------



## neo0031

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mule928*
> 
> I have a Silver Arrow cooker & have it turned towards the top of the case as well. Since heat rises & the top of my case has 2X 230mm exhaust fans I felt that made the most sense. I don't quite understand people that put intake fans on the top, sides, front, bottom and in the PS, and have 1 exhaust ran at the rear.


Even though I do support exhaust being top and back, it's been proven that air goes where you push it, and convection and hot air rising matters not when you have fans and airflow.


----------



## Pakeo

Hey guys,

I have a HAF 922 and I'd like to get a cooler video card. It gets pretty hot while gaming, high 60s when maxed. If I can cool my CPU too, that's a bonus. After searching this thread for posts about my case, I'm wondering if I should follow what everyone has said so far and replace the top 200mm with a 120mm towards the front as intake? Any suggestions. I have a negative pressure system right now (definitely want to change that). I've got the top 200mm as exhaust, front 200mm as intake, and the back 120mm as exhaust, the way it was bought as. I have a Silver Arrow in a push/push configuration. I don't really want to cut out the grill for safety reasons (wish I could just screw it off).

Is it at all feasible to just change the top fan to intake or am I going to have to replace it with a 120mm? Maybe I should just replace all the case fans with ones that have better static pressure and take out the expansion slots? Case is elevated off the floor by probably an inch or two by a shelf from an old cabinet.

Sorry about the bad picture quality. The top HD was temporary. I was cloning.


Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

By the way, before seeing this thread, I was going to just install a bottom fan, learned a lot about air cooling from you guys.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a pet rock*
> 
> I'm surprised the plain wire grill impeded airflow as much as it did. I know just a little bit of turbulence goes a long way, but that's comparable to the hexagonal vent.
> 
> Also, there's no way I'm ever going to run a pc without some physical obstruction in front of the fan. It's just far too hazardous for animals, kids, cables and drunk me.


This is the reason I not only removed my slot covers (you should try that doyll), but I cut the sheet metal between the slots -- what I call slot pillars. Helps a lot.

From readings about wings, and aerodynamic stuff, it became clear to me the even wire obstructions can influence airflow for some distance.

As for leaving fans with unobstructed openings, I'd recommend that only for outflow at the back of cases. For all intakes, I believe in filters, especially in the dusty place I live.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pakeo*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> I have a HAF 922 and I'd like to get a cooler video card. It gets pretty hot while gaming, high 60s when maxed. If I can cool my CPU too, that's a bonus. After searching this thread for posts about my case, I'm wondering if I should follow what everyone has said so far and replace the top 200mm with a 120mm towards the front as intake? Any suggestions. I have a negative pressure system right now (definitely want to change that). I've got the top 200mm as exhaust, front 200mm as intake, and the back 120mm as exhaust, the way it was bought as. I have a Silver Arrow in a push/push configuration. I don't really want to cut out the grill for safety reasons (wish I could just screw it off).
> 
> Is it at all feasible to just change the top fan to intake or am I going to have to replace it with a 120mm? Maybe I should just replace all the case fans with ones that have better static pressure and take out the expansion slots? Case is elevated off the floor by probably an inch or two by a shelf from an old cabinet.
> 
> Sorry about the bad picture quality. The top HD was temporary. I was cloning.
> 
> 
> Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
> 
> By the way, before seeing this thread, I was going to just install a bottom fan, learned a lot about air cooling from you guys.


You have five 5.25 inch slots. Use the top three or four for a 140mm intake fan. If there is room at the top of the 5.25-inch bay you can get the 140mm fan in three slots.


----------



## Pakeo

That seems like it will cool my CPU, but not my video card. Although it would be nice to cool the CPU more, it's not my priority. My CPU tops out at around 50C. (I haven't gamed in a while, so I can't remember.) I can move the DVD burner to the bottom slot. Does anyone have anything to add?


----------



## TELVM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mule928*
> 
> I have a Silver Arrow cooker & have it turned towards the top of the case as well. Since heat rises & the top of my case has 2X 230mm exhaust fans I felt that made the most sense. I don't quite understand people that put intake fans on the top, sides, front, bottom and in the PS, and have 1 exhaust ran at the rear.


I think East-to West _('horizontal')_ is less problematic than North-to South _('vertical')_ for two reasons:

1) In North-to-South the CPU heatsink pusher fan can suffer flow restriction from being 'facing against the wall' of the GPU PCB back. A solid 'wall' just an inch in front of the pusher fan can't be good for airflow.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*


2) Some CPU heatsinks don't like being positioned 'vertically' at all:


























http://www.nexustek.nl/Nexus_LOW-7000_R2_UNIVERSAL_Quiet_CPU_Cooler.htm

Now if our North-to-South solution isn't restricted by any GPU, and our particular heatsink works as good 'vertically' than 'horizontally', then that's perfectly OK to me







.

Convection is only relevant for completely passive systems, doesn't really matter in fan stirred cases. As Ehume says *air goes where you push it*, fans by far and away overrule any convection:

Quote:


> _"... Convection should (in theory) aid in cooling with a system running in a vertical orientation. However, our measurements do not support that theory ... ... Our conclusion is that *the forces of convection in a computer are simply not strong enough to overcome even the turbulence and airflow eddies caused by the fans* ...
> 
> ... Convection, while a strong concept in thought, *simply does not generate the results necessary to play a discernible role in a typical chassis* ..."_
> 
> *Vertical vs. Horizontal Case Cooling*


----------



## doyll

I've found removing slot covers gives mixed results No difference in my case pictured above.

In this case air actually flowed in
Define R4; w/3x TY-147's 2x front CPU PWM controlled; 1x bottom intake GPU PWM controlled; 1x exhaust back stock; raised for better bottom intake airflow; CPU = i7 3570K; GPU = VTX3D Radeon HD 7950 X-Edition V3 w/ cover removed w/2x Arctic F12 TC fans (dropped GPU temps 10-20c)


I tried PCI slot covers removed and it made no difference.. but I'm not running a high powered GPU either. In the image above the GPU is Gigabyte HD 5770 Silent Cell (passive cooling). With that setup I could run system completely passive with CPU maxing at 70c.. and it too 30 minutes to reach 70c. The south > north layout with duct actually forms a short thermal chimney. With cooler east > west passive temps pushed above 75c, but with only bottom case fan running 660rpm temps dropped to mid 60's. Ambient is 22c for both.

With today's high wattage GPUs the front/bottom to back/top airflow concept can be problematic. Front to back usually works better.. and removing PCI slot covers and strips between them can be even more beneficial.

Air is a fickled witch and she often flows in unexpected ways. I've been working with airflow with air cooled engines and intake/exhaust of engines (R & D in racing industry) for many years and seen air do some very strange things.


----------



## TELVM

An empirical demonstration of the havoc grills may wreak _(go to 19:15)_:


----------



## TELVM

Speaking of the devil ...







... just put a NF-P14 on the side panel ...



... and even idling @ ~500 rpm there is now an annoying whining. At top speed the noise is ridiculous







.

Guess who is the culprit ...



*Effects of Grill Patterns on Fan Performance/Noise*

Guess what's gonna be my next mod ...


----------



## TELVM

Ha, wild grills ain't nothing a Hattori Hanzo katana can't discipline







:





The whining is gone and the P14 breathes now freely







.


----------



## doyll

We need a vid of your katana at work.


----------



## TELVM

Well there is this one where they were pestering me with downgrading to Windoze Tiles or something







... click


----------



## eBombzor

Won't dust be a problem?


----------



## ohhgourami

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Won't dust be a problem?


Dust is a lot easier to manage than noise


----------



## doyll

Besides, the grill doesn't stop dust unless it's in big chunks....


----------



## TELVM

OK did some experimentation and here are my results.

Cleared all grills, PCI slot bars and grommets in the rear to maximize free exhaust, and removed rear fans. Then added two 140mm intake fans in left panel and floor ...

  

... and flipped the top rear 200mm from exhaust to intake, for something of this sort:










That didn't work







.

The air was not exiting thru the rear as expected, but also thru the front (I could feel the 'backpressure' around the front CPU duct with the hand, and 'see' it with cigarrette smoke). CPU and GPU temps were just meh, and mobo/system temps were HIGHER







(setting the top rear 200 as intake was particularly nocive here).

So I flipped the top rear 200 again as exhaust, and put back the rear top 120 exhaust and the PCI-slots 92 exhaust ...



... for something like this ...










And this works like a charm







. At 29C ambient the CPU idles @ 34C (Δ5C, three degress less than before) and burns @ 50C (Δ21C, seven degress less than previously). Mobo/system temps are now 31C at idle (Δ2C, two less than before) and even less while CPU burns:

 

At idle all the fans barely spin @ 40% rpm, at CPU burn the fans don't surpass 80% rpm.

Lesson of the day: Better test exhaustively before discarding exhaust fans.


----------



## doyll

Nice job cutting out the grills.








Air is a fickled witch and loves to do the unexpected. I can understand your top fan not working as intake. It's too far back.


----------



## doodie

Hey i was wondering how i should set up my fans in my zalman z9 plus. Currently i have 2 front intakes, 1 top exhaust 1 rear exhaust and 1 bottom intake. From what im reading i should switch my top exhaust to intake and remove my rear exhaust. Is there anything else i should do?


----------



## TELVM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> ... Air is a fickled witch and loves to do the unexpected ...










Couldn't agree more.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> ... I can understand your top fan not working as intake. It's too far back.


Yep. Also being a 200 and almost as wide as the case it overhangs a bit the mobo plane, and as an extractor sucks out what otherwise would be stagnant hot air behind the mobo. I think this effect was lost after flipping it as intake and could be part of the reason for higher mobo/system temps.

BTW there is an interesting thread on the subject of back cooling ongoing *here*.


----------



## TELVM

Being the maniac I am I decided to explore what the fickled witch was doing with her broom







, and probed with a thin tuft around the rear openings:



There was suction (as opposed to exhaust) in all of them, particularly strong thru the three circular holes below the 120. This is 'short-circuiting air': Instead of pulling entirely from inside the case (as it should), the fan sucks external air thru openings in close proximity, expels it, and sucks it again in a useless close-loop







.










So I put the three circular rubber grommets back in place, and sealed all the offending openings with tape:



After this the temps remain more or less the same (with only a small bit of improvement here and there), but now the reactor cools down noticeably faster after its power excursions







. This tells that the rear fans extract more efficiently now







.


----------



## doyll

Have you monitored the room temp vs the temp of air going into "reactor".. assume that is CPU or cooler?


----------



## TELVM

I keep a thermometer right at comp front for reference ambient temps. Doubt there can be any difference between room temp and 'reactor' intake fan temp in this particular rig, courtesy of the intake duct.


----------



## doyll

Probably not but it is an assumption that it is not.







And look what the fickled witch did with her broom at the back of your case.


----------



## TELVM

OK you win, I'm paranoid now







.


----------



## doyll

ROFL















I'm sure our duct from front to cooler is same temp.. but I had to mention the witch.


----------



## $ilent

I thought the top fans on a case are supposed to be exhaust?

So from what the OP states on the first post, every single fan in your pc should be intake apart from the fans at the back of the case which should exhaust all hot air?


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> I thought the top fans on a case are supposed to be exhaust?
> 
> So from what the OP states on the first post, every single fan in your pc should be intake apart from the fans at the back of the case which should exhaust all hot air?


Depends on where the fan is I think, as well as the total fans (and their location) in the case. (see also http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2012/02/10/the-big-cooling-investigation/10 using Fractal Design Define R3 which has the front fan basically on top of the heatsink position rather than in front of it ... 43°C over ambient isn't that great for 1.3V however)

If the fan is centered over the heatsink (and it is mounted front to back) it probably will introduce more turbulence into the CPU cooler exhaust stream. If it is in front of the intake fan for the CPU cooler then it could be beneficial provided the flow isn't so strong that air doesn't get into the heatsink intake. The issue is if you intake air that is exhausted from the heatsink (i.e. the hot air from CPU heatsink exhaust recirculates into the top intake).

Ehume's OP states that he uses a front fan in the 5.25" bays, so it's not just top intake : there's flow pushing air into the heatsink intake.

If I'm not mistaken silverstone's FT01 has top intake.
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=200&area=
and their video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Qe-2ZqmSGug

The Silverstone Kublai KL04 also has a top intake.


----------



## ehume

I built my new 4770k rig in a CM N600. The front top fan is an intake.

Nice case, BTW. I'll link to the review as soon as it is published. This is the first review case I'm using every day.


----------



## findingthelimit

Hey everyone, I need some help with airflow!

I'm using a fractal define design R4, and for those who don't know, there are two slots for the top, two for the front, and one for the rear. right now, I'm using the lower slot in the front for intake, and a rear fan for exhaust.

My power supply is a HX750, and it pushes air up. I'm using an akasa medusa for my HSF, it has a 120mm fan and a 140mm fan. According to this thread, to improve my airflow, I should populate both front slots for intake, and also add one powerful fan for intake on the top of the case in the front slot, and leave the back slot empty (i think?). However, my HSF could possibly block off some of the airflow that runs in from the top intake, as it is a relatively large heatsink. Should i still carry the plan out, or use the top slot for exhaust instead?

Sorry if i'm not being graphical enough - it's hard to describe a case!


----------



## doyll

HX750 pulls air in through the 140mm vent and exhausts out the back.

Have you removed the top section of your HDD cage? or if you can both sections and put HDD in optical cage.

I have found the stock R4 fans are not very good at pulling air through the grill and filter.

Move the front one to the bottom.

Get a couple of 140mm cooler fans and put them in the front and you should be nice and cool.

I've done a couple R4's now and my own R2 has 140mm TY-140 fans with square modification in front.


----------



## findingthelimit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> HX750 pulls air in through the 140mm vent and exhausts out the back.
> 
> Have you removed the top section of your HDD cage? or if you can both sections and put HDD in optical cage.
> 
> I have found the stock R4 fans are not very good at pulling air through the grill and filter.
> 
> Move the front one to the bottom.
> 
> Get a couple of 140mm cooler fans and put them in the front and you should be nice and cool.
> 
> I've done a couple R4's now and my own R2 has 140mm TY-140 fans with square modification in front.


i don't have a HDD. I have an SSD, and it's mounted behind the motherboard. I cannot remove the bottom section of my HDD cage (it doesn't let me), but I removed the top section and rotated the bottom section. i actually have no idea whether rotating the bottom section of the HDD cage does anything.

you mean the stock R4 fans are bad at pulling air as intake, or exhaust? or both? i can replace everything (i want to perform every improvement i might need once and for all, and stop spending more money on miniscule upgrades).

the front fan is already on the bottom slot. would adding another fan in front and putting it on the top slot help? two fans as intake is better than one, right?

what do you mean, get a couple of 140mm fans and put them "in the front"? do you mean the front as in right behind the door, or the front slot on the top of the case?

unanswered question: should i place a fan or two as intake on the top of the case? would it help?

thanks for your response!


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *findingthelimit*
> 
> i don't have a HDD. I have an SSD, and it's mounted behind the motherboard. I cannot remove the bottom section of my HDD cage (it doesn't let me), but I removed the top section and rotated the bottom section. i actually have no idea whether rotating the bottom section of the HDD cage does anything.
> 
> you mean the stock R4 fans are bad at pulling air as intake, or exhaust? or both? i can replace everything (i want to perform every improvement i might need once and for all, and stop spending more money on miniscule upgrades).


Turning the bottom HDD cage lowers the resistance to airflow and that's good.

As I said above:
I have found the stock R4 fans are not very good at *pulling air through the grill and filter.*
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *findingthelimit*
> 
> the front fan is already on the bottom slot. would adding another fan in front and putting it on the top slot help? two fans as intake is better than one, right?


Yes
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *findingthelimit*
> 
> what do you mean, get a couple of 140mm fans and put them "in the front"? do you mean the front as in right behind the door, or the front slot on the top of the case?


No, I mean replace the stock front fan and install a 2nd fan.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *findingthelimit*
> 
> unanswered question: should i place a fan or two as intake on the top of the case? would it help?


No.
It might help to remove the cover on the top vent at the back.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *findingthelimit*
> 
> thanks for your response!


----------



## findingthelimit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Turning the bottom HDD cage lowers the resistance to airflow and that's good.
> 
> As I said above:
> I have found the stock R4 fans are not very good at *pulling air through the grill and filter.*
> Yes
> No, I mean replace the stock front fan and install a 2nd fan.
> No.
> It might help to remove the cover on the top vent at the back.


i'm new to building computers in general - what dose pulling air through the grill and filter mean? are you referring to the dustfilter in front?

what is "the cover on the top vent at the back"? do you mean remove the anti-noise foam in the slot closer to the back, but not placing a fan in?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *findingthelimit*
> 
> i'm new to building computers in general - what dose pulling air through the grill and filter mean? are you referring to the dustfilter in front?


yes, the dust filter and grill in front.. and the slotted sides in front too.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *findingthelimit*
> 
> what is "the cover on the top vent at the back"? do you mean remove the anti-noise foam in the slot closer to the back, but not placing a fan in?


Yes, the "anti-noise" material on vent cover closer to the back. and do not put a fan in it.


----------



## xbotak

will the nzxt phantom 410 work if i use every fan as an intake with filters and only leave the rear as an exhaust? I am interested in doing it because i heard it reduces dust build-up greatly when all the dust are being push out of the case through small holes. Temperature drop is a bonus to me but dust is my primary concern.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xbotak*
> 
> will the nzxt phantom 410 work if i use every fan as an intake with filters and only leave the rear as an exhaust? I am interested in doing it because i heard it reduces dust build-up greatly when all the dust are being push out of the case through small holes. Temperature drop is a bonus to me but dust is my primary concern.


I think the Phantom 410 will be hard to keep dust out of as it has no filters. The bottom vent is worthless as base frame is solid on front and sides so the only airflow to bottom is from the back.. just below the PSU heated exhaust.. and supplies PSU intake. You would need to raise the case on 30-40mm feet, install filters on bottom and front intakes, install a side intake with filter and probably unplug / take out top fans.. maybe use the front one as intake with filter on low speed to feed cool air to CPU cooler.


----------



## xbotak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> I think the Phantom 410 will be hard to keep dust out of as it has no filters. The bottom vent is worthless as base frame is solid on front and sides so the only airflow to bottom is from the back.. just below the PSU heated exhaust.. and supplies PSU intake. You would need to raise the case on 30-40mm feet, install filters on bottom and front intakes, install a side intake with filter and probably unplug / take out top fans.. maybe use the front one as intake with filter on low speed to feed cool air to CPU cooler.


I am getting filters for it soon but still can't decide where to get the filters for. I am thinking of putting 2 front intakes (Gentle Typhoons), 1 side intake (Gentle Typhoon), 2 top intake (NZXT fans), 1 bottom intake (Gentle Typhoon), and 1 rear exhaust (NZXT fan). But you said the bottom part is useless so I am thinking if i should still get it. Any reason why you want the top fans to be unplug / take it out?


----------



## doyll

You want cool air going to components and hot air leaving case. Rear exhaust + 2x top exhaust would be pulling lots of air from bottom half of case.. which is where the GPU in it pumping out lots of heat. Rear exhaust pulls hot exhaust from CPU cooler. Back top vent with fan pulls but with no fan it still vents excess air (heated air) from case. Top front can supply cool air to the front of CPU cooler.

This is all theory and educated guessing and need to be verified by what component and case temps do when you try the different combinations.

You can do this with a cheap indoor/outdoor wired remote or terrarium digital thermometer to monitor air temps. Twist a piece of stiff insulated wire into the last 8" of sensor lead so you can bend it to position sensor where you want it... like an inch in front of your GPU cooler/radiator intake.. to see what the air temp going into CPU / GPU cooler is compared to room temp. The closer it is to room temp the better.. Shouldn't be more 5c maximum, 2-3c is what I usually end up with after 30 minutes full load on both CPU and GPU.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## ehume

My review on the Cooler Master N600 just went live.

I liked it so much I adopted it to house my new personal system.


----------



## xbotak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> You want cool air going to components and hot air leaving case. Rear exhaust + 2x top exhaust would be pulling lots of air from bottom half of case.. which is where the GPU in it pumping out lots of heat. Rear exhaust pulls hot exhaust from CPU cooler. Back top vent with fan pulls but with no fan it still vents excess air (heated air) from case. Top front can supply cool air to the front of CPU cooler.
> 
> This is all theory and educated guessing and need to be verified by what component and case temps do when you try the different combinations.
> 
> You can do this with a cheap indoor/outdoor wired remote or terrarium digital thermometer to monitor air temps. Twist a piece of stiff insulated wire into the last 8" of sensor lead so you can bend it to position sensor where you want it... like an inch in front of your GPU cooler/radiator intake.. to see what the air temp going into CPU / GPU cooler is compared to room temp. The closer it is to room temp the better.. Shouldn't be more 5c maximum, 2-3c is what I usually end up with after 30 minutes full load on both CPU and GPU.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


I am currently getting what I consider to be OK temperatures out of my current config. CPU idle avg 36C - max 60C. GPU idle avg 35C - max 65-70C depending on the game but I have never seen it hit above 70. Fan config - 2 front intake, 1 side exhaust, 2 top exhaust, 1 rear exhaust. I am thinking of changing my fans configuration around but if I use my top front as an intake and top rear as an exhaust, isn't the intake going to pull all the dust thats being pushed out of the exhaust fan? But like I said before, I am trying to find the perfect fan config mainly for reducing DUST build up. I know getting a filter will help and stuff and there's still going to be dust inside but I am trying to find a way to minimize dust build up. Temp is secondary for me since I have got good temps now so I am not really worry about it yet.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xbotak*
> 
> I am currently getting what I consider to be OK temperatures out of my current config. CPU idle avg 36C - max 60C. GPU idle avg 35C - max 65-70C depending on the game but I have never seen it hit above 70. Fan config - 2 front intake, 1 side exhaust, 2 top exhaust, 1 rear exhaust. I am thinking of changing my fans configuration around but if I use my top front as an intake and top rear as an exhaust, isn't the intake going to pull all the dust thats being pushed out of the exhaust fan? But like I said before, I am trying to find the perfect fan config mainly for reducing DUST build up. I know getting a filter will help and stuff and there's still going to be dust inside but I am trying to find a way to minimize dust build up. Temp is secondary for me since I have got good temps now so I am not really worry about it yet.


Using top back VENT (no fan) and top front vent with low to mid speed intake means to back VENT does very little. Rear exhaust fan is pulling the air out of that area of case.

I don't care if you don't want to change your fans around, but without 2x as many filtered intake fans as exhaust fans dust will still be getting into your case... Honestly you can't stop dust from collecting in the case. You can only reduce it.

The best way to limit dust is to filter it out before it goes in.. and you need more airflow / intake fans than exhaust... especially with filters. Filters increase resistance causing fans to flow less air.. and you will need to clean the filters often.. like once a week.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> My review on the Cooler Master N600 just went live.
> 
> I liked it so much I adopted it to house my new personal system.


Nice review..









Nice case. When do the grills come out?


----------



## xbotak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Using top back VENT (no fan) and top front vent with low to mid speed intake means to back VENT does very little. Rear exhaust fan is pulling the air out of that area of case.
> 
> I don't care if you don't want to change your fans around, but without 2x as many filtered intake fans as exhaust fans dust will still be getting into your case... Honestly you can't stop dust from collecting in the case. You can only reduce it.
> 
> The best way to limit dust is to filter it out before it goes in.. and you need more airflow / intake fans than exhaust... especially with filters. Filters increase resistance causing fans to flow less air.. and you will need to clean the filters often.. like once a week.


I didn't say anything about not wanting to change my fans around.. I am getting filters soon but have not order it yet because I am still deciding on my intakes. I know it is impossible to stop dust from collecting in the case, I mentioned it in my previous post.

I have 4 gentle typhoon's ap15 in my case, 2 of which are intakes. I am deciding whether to add fans to the bottom / HDD cage but I will change my side to intake for sure. So I'd have 2 GT front intake and 1 GT side intake and 3 exhaust.

I am thinking of getting the whole filter set for my case and put the filters on exhaust only when the computer is turned off because I read somewhere that dust build up in your computer more when its turned off since there's nothing to blow the dust out. Do you think that is a good idea or nah?


----------



## doyll

As I've said you will need twice as many intake fans with filters as exhaust fans without filters.

You don't need filters on exhaust. The only dust that collects would be what can fall through the exhaust holes and that's not enough to worry about.


----------



## xbotak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> As I've said you will need twice as many intake fans with filters as exhaust fans without filters.
> 
> You don't need filters on exhaust. The only dust that collects would be what can fall through the exhaust holes and that's not enough to worry about.


Twice as many intake fans.. hmm.. does the hdd cage fan count as an intake? 2 front, 1 side, 1 bottom.

That is exactly what I am worried about. Dust falling through the holes when the computer is turned off. Does it really not matter?


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xbotak*
> 
> Twice as many intake fans.. hmm.. does the hdd cage fan count as an intake? 2 front, 1 side, 1 bottom.
> 
> That is exactly what I am worried about. Dust falling through the holes when the computer is turned off. Does it really not matter?


Is HDD fan mounting in a case vent? And 1 bottom would need the case raised so it can get air.









Honestly the front top exhaust is very possibly robbing cool air coming in the front and bottom by sucking it straight up and out. And with all the extra venting in side and back of case I don't think you need to worry about airflow being able to get out of case.









Does the top of your desk and other things collect lots of dust? Keep in mind the dust fans pull in without filters is much more than will settle on top of things. And dust from fans will plug up cooler fins, collect on fan blades, etc. When system is off how much dust collects on the top your PSU? That's the kind of dust that will leak in through top exhaust vents.


----------



## Mopar63

When you get you filters be sure to get the Demciflex filters. They can be gotten for just bout any case or fan size and since they mount on the outside of the case they are SUPER easy to access and clean. They are a bit pricey but from my experience they are worth it. I love the kit they have for vents on plastic BTW. They have a magnetic rim with tape on it. You position it around the intake and then the filters magnet grabs the rim. You still get a great seal and easy removal.

As for positive air flow cooling I am sold though I use it in conjunction with AiO solutions.

Corsair Vengeance C70 we fit with an Antec 620 as the exhaust fan in the rear. We removed the two front HD cages and fit he two 120mm fans at the front of the case as ell as a 120 bottom intake. Wit the side panel off it feels like you are sitting in front of a box fan.

Prodigy case I just did I used a 230mm front intake and fit the top with dual Noctua 120 PWM fans blwoing through a Water 2.0 Extreme Radiator. I ten fit a Noctua 140 (150) PWM fan at the rear for exhaust. Again with side panel off a lot of air coming out of the case, with side panel on there is still a ton of air coming out the side vent and rear.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> My review on the Cooler Master N600 just went live.
> 
> I liked it so much I adopted it to house my new personal system.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice review..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nice case. When do the grills come out?
Click to expand...

You know me so well. After I was done with the test system, I stripped the case down to its steel skeleton:



Then I removed the front and rear grills:





And got this:



Four intake fans, all filtered by the case. One mid-case fan, suspended by zipties and anchored to the screw holes for the left side of the now-removed upper HD cage. Two heatsink fans. Honestly, the heatsink pull fan is just there to help extract ait from the case.

The side intake and the mid-case are PWM fans. They are separately controlled via the motherboard to respond to chipset temps. The motherboard has only two pwn-controlled fan headers, so the upper intake fan and the pull fan share the same Y-cable, with the upper fan reporting its rpm's.



Later, I may remove the rear slot pillars. But right now I'm using built-in graphics with 1024MB of system RAM for the GPU. So far, no issues (I don't game).


----------



## xbotak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Is HDD fan mounting in a case vent? And 1 bottom would need the case raised so it can get air.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly the front top exhaust is very possibly robbing cool air coming in the front and bottom by sucking it straight up and out. And with all the extra venting in side and back of case I don't think you need to worry about airflow being able to get out of case.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does the top of your desk and other things collect lots of dust? Keep in mind the dust fans pull in without filters is much more than will settle on top of things. And dust from fans will plug up cooler fins, collect on fan blades, etc. When system is off how much dust collects on the top your PSU? That's the kind of dust that will leak in through top exhaust vents.


Nope. I think the HDD fan takes air from the front/bottom to blow it directly at the CPU/GPU depending on which way you tilt it. My case is on the floor =( My table is too small to put the case on.

What do you think I should do with the top fans then? I haven't got a clue about them robbing cool air from the front.

Since my PC is on the floor, it tends to be more dusty but I do clean around the PC area everyday. Yeah I am aware of that which is why I am trying to fix the problem by getting filters for intake and a filter for the top of the case because dust fall through the holes. Not very sure how to describe how much dust collects on top of my PSU but it's not that much at the moment just a little bit i'd say. When you touch it, it feels dusty and when I off my room light and put a torchlight, I can see those white dust floating around.


----------



## xbotak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mopar63*
> 
> When you get you filters be sure to get the Demciflex filters. They can be gotten for just bout any case or fan size and since they mount on the outside of the case they are SUPER easy to access and clean. They are a bit pricey but from my experience they are worth it. I love the kit they have for vents on plastic BTW. They have a magnetic rim with tape on it. You position it around the intake and then the filters magnet grabs the rim. You still get a great seal and easy removal.
> 
> As for positive air flow cooling I am sold though I use it in conjunction with AiO solutions.
> 
> Corsair Vengeance C70 we fit with an Antec 620 as the exhaust fan in the rear. We removed the two front HD cages and fit he two 120mm fans at the front of the case as ell as a 120 bottom intake. Wit the side panel off it feels like you are sitting in front of a box fan.
> 
> Prodigy case I just did I used a 230mm front intake and fit the top with dual Noctua 120 PWM fans blwoing through a Water 2.0 Extreme Radiator. I ten fit a Noctua 140 (150) PWM fan at the rear for exhaust. Again with side panel off a lot of air coming out of the case, with side panel on there is still a ton of air coming out the side vent and rear.


That is exactly what I am getting but just not sure whether to get the full kit or just for intake. I also realise another problem on the NZXT Phantom 410 front filter, if I were to put the filter infront of an already mesh front, will it affect more airflow? and there's a big hole under the front which is for taking the front part of the casing off. Dust can still enter from there though.


----------



## TELVM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> ... And got this:


I can't help thinking that right panel fan might be doing more harm that good disrupting the flow between the two front fans tandem.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TELVM*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> ... And got this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't help thinking that right panel fan might be doing more harm that good disrupting the flow between the two front fans tandem.
Click to expand...

You make an excellent point. And that is just the reason that the right panel fan is on PWM, and doesn't add much until more air is needed. The front fans are two NF-P12's on ULNA's, so they are probably running at 900 rpm. But when more air is needed, they can't supply it. That's where the side fan comes in: more air when needed, and not otherwise.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> You know me so well.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> After I was done with the test system, I stripped the case down to its steel skeleton:
> 
> 
> 
> Then I removed the front and rear grills:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And got this:
> 
> 
> 
> Four intake fans, all filtered by the case. One mid-case fan, suspended by zipties and anchored to the screw holes for the left side of the now-removed upper HD cage. Two heatsink fans. Honestly, the heatsink pull fan is just there to help extract ait from the case.
> 
> The side intake and the mid-case are PWM fans. They are separately controlled via the motherboard to respond to chipset temps. The motherboard has only two pwn-controlled fan headers, so the upper intake fan and the pull fan share the same Y-cable, with the upper fan reporting its rpm's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Later, I may remove the rear slot pillars. But right now I'm using built-in graphics with 1024MB of system RAM for the GPU. So far, no issues (I don't game).


That looks much nicer.









Curious, why not run all case fans on PWM control?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> You know me so well.
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> After I was done with the test system, I stripped the case down to its steel skeleton:
> 
> 
> Then I removed the front and rear grills:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And got this:
> 
> 
> Four intake fans, all filtered by the case. One mid-case fan, suspended by zipties and anchored to the screw holes for the left side of the now-removed upper HD cage. Two heatsink fans. Honestly, the heatsink pull fan is just there to help extract ait from the case.
> 
> The side intake and the mid-case are PWM fans. They are separately controlled via the motherboard to respond to chipset temps. The motherboard has only two pwn-controlled fan headers, so the upper intake fan and the pull fan share the same Y-cable, with the upper fan reporting its rpm's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Later, I may remove the rear slot pillars. But right now I'm using built-in graphics with 1024MB of system RAM for the GPU. So far, no issues (I don't game).
> 
> 
> 
> That looks much nicer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Curious, why not run all case fans on PWM control?
Click to expand...

I bought one NF-P12 at retail in late 2009. The other came with an NH-D14 I bought in early 2010. Those fans weren't available in PWM then. I don't have two comparable PWM fans. I have a couple of NF-F12 PWM fans, but those are better for heatsink use, I use them for heatsink and fan testing and they are noisier than the P12's, especially when the latter are on ULNA's.

I do have a single NF-P12 PWM, but I use it for testing; I don't have a pair of them. If I did, I'd be tempted to do exactly what you said. As it is, on the side I have a single Enermax Frankenfan -- frame and motor is a PWM Cluster, and the blade is from an Everest -- and it is a reasonable PWM fan.

I have a pair of NF-S12A PWM fans, but they don't pull air through a filter anywhere near as well as the P12's. So, I go with a pair of old-fashioned NF-P12's until something better comes through my door.

I did try a pair of Gentle Typhoon AP-12's in the front.



But they made more noise than the two NF-P12's on LNA's, and more noise than two NF-P12's on ULNA's.


----------



## Mopar63

Yeah the tough part of this type of setup is noise. I ha an issue with my front 230 on the Prodigy build. I found that rubber washers reduced the noise some but I am thinking of cutting out the metal grill work and see if that will help even more. Not sure about not using a rear exhaust. For noise it could be at low speed and will help with directing air flow over the motherboard.


----------



## ehume

I found a review for the CM N400 here. The second picture reveals that this case has no front grill.

That is cool!


----------



## doyll

Would be even cooler if the filter grill pattern was used on the front grill too... even less restrictive.


----------



## TELVM

I've replaced the NF-P12 with a NF-S12A FLX for the up rear position. With less blades of narrower chord and coarser pitch it's better suited for the exhaust task.



With the freed NF-P12 I decided to try a little experiment, tandem CPU intake fans.





Theoretically two fans in series have same airflow and double the pressure:



I wanted to test if the NH-D14 could benefit from the extra intake pressure. The distance between both NF P-12s was 19 cm.

At 30C ambient the max CPU temp in full swing is now 50C (Δ20C):



Barely a single degree less than before. So not much worth the trouble.


----------



## doyll

Thanks for the update.


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TELVM*
> 
> Barely a single degree less than before. So not much worth the trouble.


Good work regardless


----------



## roofrider

What do you guys think about the CM690 III? The 690II is on the OP as one of the better cases for air cooling.
Slightly more expensive than the n600 here but affordable nonetheless, comes with a 200mm front fan and case is bigger than the n600. With the windowed side panel you cant use side fans, so 7 fans in total with 2 of them being 200mm (front and top (optional) ).
So, N600 vs CM 690 III. Opinions? Or any other case that your think is a better option than these two?

As for the cooler, right now i'm looking at Deepcool Assassin.

More info, i won't be running multiple GPUs, only a single 650Ti boost or equivalent cuz stuff is expensive here.








But i'm planning on overclocking the crap out of either the FX6300 or the FX8320, hopefully 5Ghz but unlikely.


----------



## eBombzor

Hey guys what 140mm fans do you guys suggest for the front intake and bottom intake of an R4? I was thinking the A14s but I want to know if there are better fans out there.


----------



## ehume

Really, it's not the case, but what will fit. If you have 120mm screw holes but enough lateral space, put in an NF-A15 PWM or a TY-140. If you have 140mm screw holes, put in an NF-A14 PWM. If you have no lateral space for a 140mm fan, use an NF-P12 PWM.

You can use Gentle Typhoons, preferably the 800 RPM AP-12. Or perhaps one of the newer fans.

But remember: all intake fans must operate through filters, so they must have enough static pressure to pull air through a resistance. That's why I recommend an NF-P12 PWM and not a an NF-S12A on the front, for example.

The NF-A14/A15 and the TY-14x blades are all optimized for a combination of fairly good CFM and good static pressure. That's why they make great intake fans.


----------



## Theroty

I have a Storm Scout 2 advanced. I have noticed that my CPU idles a bit warmer than what it did in my Antec 1200. So, I think I will need to change my current fan config around.

It is setup as:
Front 2 intake
Side 2 Intake
Top 2 exhaust
Rear Exhaust

I think I will change the top to intake and the side to exhaust. My Gpus are Asus DCII. They idle at 31(top) and about 26-29 for the bottom. I think some of the heat, while not much, is drifting up to the cpu.

Thoughts? Thanks in advance!

Edit: here are a few pics to help


----------



## doyll

I would give it a try Theroty. Looks like side fans are now blowing in below bottom card so top in may lower CPU and top GPU temps.

What are temps when gaming hard?


----------



## Theroty

I will have to check honestly. Have not had a chance to check gaming temps.


----------



## Redwoodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Theroty*
> 
> I will have to check honestly. Have not had a chance to check gaming temps.


Experiment.


----------



## Theroty

Is that referring to intake as orange?


----------



## doyll

I hope not.


----------



## Theroty

So while playing BF3 I recorded my temps. Note that I have not changed my fan config around yet.

CPU Socket:45
CPU Package: 40
Core usage across 8 cores: 87 - 98.5% max

Top GPU never exceeded 10% fan speed. Never got higher than 59C and max usage was 89%

Bottom GPU never exceeded 10% speed as well. Peaked at 56C and hit 99% usage.

GPU profile is the default. All clock rates are stock except for CPU which is 4.5.

All this came from HWInfo64 logged over a 1 hour of game play.


----------



## doyll

With temps like that there is no need to worry.









But if you want to play please let us know what the temps are with the different fan combinations.


----------



## JONDJ23

Just a thought what happens when cold air meets a warm surface (not condensation - warm surface meet by cold air) . I'm trying to build an alternative cold temp booster by encasing a ice pack into a galvanized steel, seal it (but still removable) to increase surface area of cold temperature and put near a pc case intake (not on top of it, just near it?)


----------



## mAs81

Hey guys I have a question..
I'm building a Corsair 350D, and I was thinking about positive air pressure..
First of all,let me say that my gpu is not a blower type(msi r9280x),and I have a 120mm radiator
to cool my cpu...So I was thinking :2X140mm front intake,2X140mm top intake,and 2X120mm on push/pull with the radiator as exhaust..
What do you guys think?


----------



## 161029

I've been continuously thinking about the idea of the top intake part of this guide. I do agree that top intake will do more good than top exhaust, but I was wondering about nothing at the top and only a front intake lined up with the CPU heatsink. This idea is only for smaller cases where there isn't as much space between your front intake and CPU heatsink so you'll have less of a chance of an area where stagnant, hot air will build up since there's less "empty" space for air to sit around.

Anyways, if the front intake lined up w/ the CPU heatsink were close enough to it (but let's say you can still fit in that top intake in front of the heatsink), I don't think you need a top intake anymore (something like the FT03 if it were laid on its side if you want the correct fan location descriptions to apply in my description), right? At this point it's just adding excess air that increases your positive pressure so that air will be pushed towards the back and out of the case.

I don't know, I just happened to think about it.


----------



## doyll

Many have installed an intake in 3x 5.25" bays in front of CPU cooler. works great!
http://www.overclock.net/t/1037539/intake-fan-in-a-5-25-bay-warning-graphics/0_20


----------



## GeneO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TELVM*
> 
> I've replaced the NF-P12 with a NF-S12A FLX for the up rear position. With less blades of narrower chord and coarser pitch it's better suited for the exhaust task.


Just got an NF-S12A for the same purpose. It blows a lot of air, especially unrestricted like that.,


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Many have installed an intake in 3x 5.25" bays in front of CPU cooler. works great!
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1037539/intake-fan-in-a-5-25-bay-warning-graphics/0_20


Not that, I'm just questioning the necessity of a top intake (vs. no fan on top intake at all) in certain situations (when distance between the front intake for the CPU is extremely close to the CPU heatsink itself). Sort of a case design question.


----------



## ehume

In doing case reviews for Overclockers.com, I have discovered that the cases where the top is completely open fail my passive test. They lose the air generated by the front fans. It's like not having a case -- which can be a good thing, as long as you're not depending on flow-through to assist your cooling.

Also, with no top intake, the hot air inside your case will rise, and some of it will get sucked into your heatsink's intake.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> In doing case reviews for Overclockers.com, I have discovered that the cases where the top is completely open fail my passive test. They lose the air generated by the front fans. It's like not having a case -- which can be a good thing, as long as you're not depending on flow-through to assist your cooling.
> 
> Also, with no top intake, the hot air inside your case will rise, and some of it will get sucked into your heatsink's intake.


Okay, thanks. So top intake prevent hot air from GPUs, etc. to rise up (acts like a wall, sort of) and keeps air going from front (assuming the front intake is far enough from the CPU).

So, shouldn't be a problem for a case like the FT03.


----------



## AlphaC

I think the main reason why ehume's setup works is because the hot air and cold air won't mix. It's all intake on one side , with the top intake closed off from the rear exhaust.

Quite a few cases come with front intake rear exhaust and top rear exhaust fan (i.e. dust collection).


----------



## 161029

I'm surprised at the importance of the top intake, although I don't feel like ehume stressed it enough in his main post (since he just talked about how the top intake also creates a barrier to prevent most, if not all hot air from GPUs, etc. from rising into the CPU's wind tunnel/airflow path).


----------



## ebhsimon

If there was a top intake, would the GPU be warmer than if the top was an exhaust?
I want to prioritize cooling my gpu over my cpu, and I am looking for the best scenario to cool it.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlphaC*
> 
> I think the main reason why *ehume's setup works is because the hot air and cold air won't mix*. It's all intake on one side , with the top intake closed off from the rear exhaust.
> 
> Quite a few cases come with front intake rear exhaust and top rear exhaust fan (i.e. dust collection).


Indeed.
Meaning components get the air at or near room temperature.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> I'm surprised at the importance of the top intake, although I don't feel like ehume stressed it enough in his main post (since he just talked about how the *top intake also creates a barrier to prevent most, if not all hot air from GPUs*, etc. from rising into the CPU's wind tunnel/airflow path).


Indeed.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ebhsimon*
> 
> *If there was a top intake, would the GPU be warmer than if the top was an exhaust?*
> I want to prioritize cooling my gpu over my cpu, and I am looking for the best scenario to cool it.


Only way to find out is try it.

Setting up the case to cool properly is often the hardest and most time consuming part of a build... And the most neglected by most builders.

You might find this case airflow & cooling tutorial helpful.. it is by no means complete


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



There is much more to cooling than good cases and good CPU / GPU coolers. Add the fact that many GPU's make more heat than CPU makes getting that heat out of the case can be a challenge.

Cases, especially those with filters, usually benefit from fans with higher static pressure ratings than stock fans... "cooler" fans instead of "case" fans.
Intakes are typically more restricted than exhaust; air filter, more restrictive grill, HDD cage, etc.
I prefer more intake than exhaust. And don't confuse number of fans with amount of airflow... or air*flow* with air*blow*

air*flow* is flowing cool air from intake to component and flowing hot air from component out of case without the hot air mixing with the cool air.

air*blow* is lots of fans blowing air with some of hot air from components mixing with cool air making it warmer resulting in warm air not cooling components as well as the cool air will.

Putting fans in case as intake and/or exhaust is only the first step. These fans only move air in and out of case.

This does not mean heated air is not mixing with cool air.

Nor does it mean cool air is going to where it is needed.

Getting the air to flow inside of case properly is even more important. We still need to manage where the air flows inside the case. We can do this several ways; deflectors, more intake fans.. & exhaust fans, removing vent grills, removing HDD cage, using fans with higher pressure/airflow, building ducts to or from CPU/GPU cooler, etc.

Using a remote temperature sensor to monitor what air temps are is the key to finding out where the cool air is flowing and knowing heated air is not mixing into it. By monitoring this we can than make changes to get airflow the way we want it.

I monitor the temps with a cheap indoor/outdoor wired remote or terrarium digital thermometer. Twist a piece of stiff insulated wire into the last 8" of sensor lead so you can bend it to position sensor where you want it... like 40mm in front of your GPU cooler/radiator intake.. to see what the air temp going into CPU / GPU cooler is compared to room temp. The closer it is to room temp the better.. Shouldn't be more 5c maximum, 2-3c is what I usually end up with after 30 minutes full load on both CPU and GPU.


----------



## miklkit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ebhsimon*
> 
> If there was a top intake, would the GPU be warmer than if the top was an exhaust?
> I want to prioritize cooling my gpu over my cpu, and I am looking for the best scenario to cool it.


No. You are saying you want the hot air from your gpu to go straight up and then get sucked back into your cpu cooler and only then expelled out of the case.

What you want is not vertical air movement but rather horizontal air movement. My case has 4-120 intakes and the only exhaust fans are the cpu cooler fans. All air is brought in through front and top filters and then pushed out the back of the case.
People comment on how cool my motherboard runs and the MSI R9 280X has hit a peak temp of 67C on a hot day. Normally it runs in the 60-64C range.



This is an old pic and I have since removed the pci slot covers for better air flow, but the rest is pretty current except for different fans. The gpu has 2 fans blowing cool filtered air at it and moving the hot air out the back.

There are also 2 fans supplying filtered air to the top half of the case for the motherboard and cpu. One is sitting on top of the optical drive and the other is the front top fan. The air from them is sucked into the cpu cooler and then blown out the back. Obviously the ram stays nice and cool.

There is some hot air from the gpu that gets sucked up and then out too, but all it seems to affect is the North Bridge and the bottom of the VRM cooler. I'm toying with the idea of moving the gpu all the way down to the bottom pci x16 slot.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miklkit*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ebhsimon*
> 
> If there was a top intake, would the GPU be warmer than if the top was an exhaust?
> I want to prioritize cooling my gpu over my cpu, and I am looking for the best scenario to cool it.
> 
> 
> 
> What you want is not vertical air movement but rather horizontal air movement. My case has 4-120 intakes and the only exhaust fans are the cpu cooler fans. All air is brought in through front and top filters and then pushed out the back of the case.
Click to expand...

Yes! +rep


----------



## arrow0309

Hi guys!

With my new system, a Z77 OC Formula, Lamptron FC6 and memory in sig (not arrived yet) I also decided to change my good old case (a CM 690 modded for pp _here_) with one of these:

- A used Haf X (that I honestly don't agree much due to its size, don't like it sit on my desktop)
- A new Aerocool XPredator X3 Evil Black Edition
- A new Corsair Vengeance C70 - Gunmetal Black
- A new CM 690 III with a very attractive price (70€)

So, what are you advising me to get for the best airflow (still using my D14 @ Blade Master push and TY-147 central, in pwm)?
With or without fan modification (no problem adding some since I got plenty)


----------



## arrow0309

Got the CM 690 III new, with 70 euros shipped!









There's plenty of space on top of the case, I could even mount a 200mm fan there:

http://cdn.overclock.net/c/cb/cbebc13e_IMG_0664.jpeg

However is gonna get quite closer to the mainboard top side and I honestly don't like it

So, do you advise me to install one (frontal top) or two 140mm intake fans on the top?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







The only front intake fan will remain (for now) the stock 200mm cm black fan:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







But I'm going to add another TY-140 fan front internal, just above the inferior hdd cage:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!








And, of course, there will even be another two intake fans, one 120mm on the bottom and one 140mm on the side panel, on the last one I haven't decided yet where would I better place it (I think on the right side):


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Any opinions?


----------



## doyll

Nice score arrow!









I would forget about adding fan to top.
Add your TY-140 in 3x 5.25" bays (straight line flow from front to cooler to exhaust)
Remove unused PCI slot covers.
Add bottom intake
Raise case about 20mm (better airflow to bottom fans)
Side intake only if it adds cool air to GPU intakes (may be cooler side intake, exhaust or no fan; test and see)
Case cooling link in my sig may be of interest.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Nice score arrow!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would forget about adding fan to top.
> Add your TY-140 in 3x 5.25" bays (straight line flow from front to cooler to exhaust)
> Remove unused PCI slot covers.
> Add bottom intake
> Raise case about 20mm (better airflow to bottom fans)
> Side intake only if it adds cool air to GPU intakes (may be cooler side intake, exhaust or no fan; test and see)
> Case cooling link in my sig may be of interest.


Thanks for the answer!
However I can't forget about the top fan because I can not use the "only" 3x5.25 bay, since "at least" one bay will be used for my new Lamptron FC6.
I may also use another one for a Blue-Ray Dvd Writer (soon)








OK for the pci covers, external liquid cooling holes grommets
And for the bottom intake too








Btw, the case is already 30mm tall:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Do I still need to raise it anymore?
There's a fan filter on the bottom too:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







As for the side intake or exhaust I may need it since my 7970 uses a lot of voltage in oc but you're right, I'll have to check different fan positions









Gonna use even two exhaust rear fans, one rear 120mm classic exhaust and another one for the vga, behind the pci slot (removed) covers, like this:

http://cdn.overclock.net/2/25/900x900px-LL-2586c784_88270129792628882056.jpeg

I swapped that fan with an ARCTIC F9 PWM CO - PWM


----------



## Melcar

I have a Haf 912 and the only thing I don't like is that the top and side panels have these horrible open grills on them. I already have filters on the fans, but since the grills take a bigger area, it leaves a lot of open space. When I switch my fans to intake the filters on them are a bit pointless as dust gets in from the holes around it. I was planning to somehow make some sort of filter/mesh that can cover the whole area. What can I use? Nylon stockings or something?


----------



## doyll

Okay Arrow.


Add 1x 140mm intake as far foward as possible in top, but no fan behind it.
I don't think you will need a fan inside. It's all about air _flow_, not air _blow_. We want cool air flowing to component intakes and their heated exhaust air flowing out of case without warming their cool intake air.
Use the rest of front and bottom intake feed air toward the GPU.
Might not need to raise case higher. 120mm fan is 38cm circumference but the area between fans does not supply air to either fan. Assuming the center to center of PSU and intake fans is 15cm we have a total circumference of 68cm times the 3cm clearance or a total area of 204sq cm and 2x 120mm fans have have a total area of 226 sq cm. Similar area... except the back feet block part of the airflow to PSU intake. Rule of thumb is to have fans clear surfaces by their the distance of their diameter to have optimum unrestricted airflow. I think fans radius is more than enough. 12cm - 3cm motor hub = 9cm /2 =4.5cm clearance. Hope that makes sense.
The cheapo digital indoor/outdoor thermometer setup discribed in case cooling helps a lot.
Be careful you don't pull air right past VGA.








I like using PWM fans and controlling case airflow same way component coolers work. Slow speed when not working and more speed as needed to supply air as needed. (also sig link)


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Okay Arrow.
> 
> 
> Add 1x 140mm intake as far foward as possible in top, but no fan behind it.
> I don't think you will need a fan inside. It's all about air _flow_, not air _blow_. We want cool air flowing to component intakes and their heated exhaust air flowing out of case without warming their cool intake air.
> Use the rest of front and bottom intake feed air toward the GPU.
> Might not need to raise case higher. 120mm fan is 38cm circumference but the area between fans does not supply air to either fan. Assuming the center to center of PSU and intake fans is 15cm we have a total circumference of 68cm times the 3cm clearance or a total area of 204sq cm and 2x 120mm fans have have a total area of 226 sq cm. Similar area... except the back feet block part of the airflow to PSU intake. Rule of thumb is to have fans clear surfaces by their the distance of their diameter to have optimum unrestricted airflow. I think fans radius is more than enough. 12cm - 3cm motor hub = 9cm /2 =4.5cm clearance. Hope that makes sense.
> The cheapo digital indoor/outdoor thermometer setup discribed in case cooling helps a lot.
> Be careful you don't pull air right past VGA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like using PWM fans and controlling case airflow same way component coolers work. Slow speed when not working and more speed as needed to supply air as needed. (also sig link)


+1 Rep!

I'll start next week with the assembly, as soon as I receive the case








Already painted mate black the frame of the two TY-140, the blades remained grey









About the internal fan let's say It's just something I have in mind for a while and definitely wanna give a try








The idea started with some pics of a user (solsamurai) who did such a fan internal intake on an Obsidian 650 D and is something I also agree on a case without an upper, 3x5.25" bay front intake:

http://cdn.overclock.net/d/df/900x900px-LL-dfa8e63d_717e7236_IMG_4786_logo.jpeg

He was using a 150mm (TY-150) fan; I'm gonna use a smaller, 140mm TY-140 fan and I need it more for my hotter 7970
Also I'm gonna place it closer to the 200mm front intake, I'll take pictures and post them









About those pwm controlling all the fans you're right, however I'm gonna use only three fans controlled directly by the cpu_fan1 (x2 using a pwm Y spitter) and the cpu_fan 2 and "maybe" a fourth pwm fan on my MoBo's sys_fan
The rest of the fans will be manually controlled by myself with the Lamptron FC6









I could even control all my fans with the OC Formula's software, *FAN-Tastic Tuning*

I'm thinking of changing the third TY-140 (not painted) side fan as well.
I only wanna see black frame fans and I have a new 140mm 1600rpm Scythe Glide Stream I can only use in vertical position, it's loud as hell on high rpm's horizontally (right now as intake fan on the top of my old CM 690):


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







And yes, gonna use one or two thermal sensors within my rheobus too


----------



## doyll

Sounds like a plan.









Using PWM splitter with molex/sata power is nice because fan power comes directly from PSU.. therefore no power load on motherboard.. and motherboard PWM signal can control 8-10 fans no problem.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Sounds like a plan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Using PWM splitter with molex/sata power is nice because fan power comes directly from PSU.. therefore no power load on motherboard.. and motherboard PWM signal can control 8-10 fans no problem.


You've just convinced me









This one can work?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Akasa-AK-CBFA07-45-Flexa-Splitter-Cable/dp/B008PO4X2E


----------



## doyll

Yes, it will work. I would suggest a pull-tie about 10-12cm from plug end so it's more like this Gelid PWM splitter.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gelid-Solutions-Case-Splitter-Cable/dp/B0067LWQ1C/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1390064275&sr=1-1&keywords=gelid+pwm+splitter

Akasa has individual lead to plugs and sockets instead of grouping the leads to each socket as one... making them a bunch of snakes when trying to organize.


----------



## DJXavier

Hello,

Let me describe about what I want, my environment and my hardware. I live in a very hot place, ambient temp sometimes is around 29c up to 34c.









My hardware is:

4960k (I expect to overclock to 4.3 and keep it running 24/7 at full load - I hope to never arrive at 1.4 voltage - I use it for gaming and bitcoin mining full time).
8GB.
X79 motherboard
2x 290X (reference card - blow hot air?)
SSD with 128GB.
1100w power supply (aerocool strike-x)
NH-D14
1 DVD-R
I'm looking for a decent chassis with a lower price, however, not all options are available where I live, unfortunately.

Only air cooling. No liquid, please.

*1)* On the first page is a video about a smoke machine test. It was super cool. It is a kind of common test? Is it safe? Or may it damage components? Any special typo of smoke machine to use?

*2)* What other methods could I use to check temperature? digital thermometer gun? What else is effective and cheap to test configurations to test performance?

*3)* Do you suggest fan controllers? For example NZXT Sentry LX, NZXT Sentry LXE, aerosol touch 2100, Lamptron FC6, Scythe Kaze Master Ace - Km02-bk, etc? I mean, they really help on custom build focused on good air flow? Or just waste of money? If they are good, what do you recommend? The external one looks nice, but i guess it's just more one card to generate heat and stop air flow. Make sense?

*4)* I'm considering one of the following chassis. One was referenced here, so more one point to it. The others looks "nice", but I don't know about cooling (airflow) and noise that is what matters to me.









Raidmax Agusta (I liked the bottom of this chassis):
http://raidmax.com/chassis/agusta.html

Raidmax Raptor:
http://raidmax.com/chassis/raptor.html

Aircool Strike-X Xtreme:
http://www.aerocool.com.tw/chassis/strike-x/858.html

CoolerMaster CM690 Basic - Asia Only (I guess it's the same of a CM690 but without black painted inside):
http://www.coolermaster.com/case/mid-tower-cm690-series/cm-690-ii-basic/

Suggestions? Advises?

*5)* Based on the chassis selected, do you suggest some customization? I never did it, but I should be able to cut some grids if necessary, etc. Nothing complex.

*6)* Based on my hardware specs and average high ambient temperature, do you suggest what kind of air flowing? How many fan and what size / type to use? Where?

Examples and references of customization of any of the above chassis that decrease temperature in a relevant way are very welcome.

Please, keep in mind that where I live not a lot of options exist, let me describe a few:

Cooler Sickleflow 120mm Cooler Master (Blue, Green or Red)
Cooler Fan Aerocool Shark 120mm (different colors)
Fan Led Xtraflo Cooler 120mm (blue or red)
Akasa Ak-fn057 Apache 120mm (single color)
Cooler Deepcool 120mm (black)
Cooler Master R4-exbb-20pk-r0 Fan Excalibur 120mm (black)
Viper S-flow - 120mm - Akasa (yellow)
Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120mm (black and gray)
Berflo 3 Pin Sleeve Bearing 120mm (black)
Evercool Cooler Fan 92mm 2p Sleeve Bearing (black)
Evercool Sleeve Bearing 80mm
Cooler Ball Bearing Dc 12v (no brand)
Enermax T.b Vegas Duo 140mm (Blue and red)
Akasa Ak-f1825sm-cb 180mm (blue with LED)
Cooler Master Megaflow 200mm Com (Led red or blue)
Cooler Master Excalibur 120mm - Barometric Ball Bearing (BBB) (black)
Cougar Vortex Pwm 120mm (black and orange)
Cougar Turbine Cf-t12s 120mm (black and orange)
corsair sp120 pwm (black and red)
Sanyo San Ace 120mm (black)
Thermaltake Blue-Eye LED Case Fan 120mm
Zalman Ultra Quiet Fan ZM-F3 LED 120mm (blue)

If you could give a few alternatives of coolers I will be very thankful, because some of them are really expensive here.

I really appreciated answer from all members, but if the masters (@psyclum @ehume @PontiacGTX @doyll [@RagingCain @Shadowclock) want to help I will be very happy too.

Thanks.


----------



## doyll

1/ Can't help with smoke. Quite that nasty habit years ago.









2/ Cheap digital indoor/outdoor thermometer. Optimum case cooling in sig.

3/ I prefer PWM fans and control. Controlling PWM case fans in sig.

4/ Can you get Fractal Design Arc Midi R2 there? Probably cheaper than what you posted and well built good cooling case.

5/ Raise case for better airflow to bottom vents is almost always a good move.

6/ Amount of airflow needed is directly related to how much air the air cooling systems in your case use. I suggest 1.5:1 - 2.0:1 ratio of airflow through case to amount of air through components. With proper airflow (cool air into components and hot air out of case)... and using the same fan control the CPU and sometimes GPU use means case fans move more air when cooler fans more air.

Where do you live? Can you give us some links to online store you would buy from?

And I'm definitely no master.. not even my own dog.


----------



## psyclum

it may be better for you to list the URL of the shop you can buy from and give a budget on what you are willing to spend. i'm not a big fan of either raidmax or aerocool products and the coolermaster you listed generally isn't their best product for the price range


----------



## Melcar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJXavier*
> 
> Hello,
> 
> Let me describe about what I want, my environment and my hardware. I live in a very hot place, ambient temp sometimes is around 29c up to 34c.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My hardware is:
> 
> 4960k (I expect to overclock to 4.3 and keep it running 24/7 at full load - I hope to never arrive at 1.4 voltage - I use it for gaming and bitcoin mining full time).
> 8GB.
> X79 motherboard
> 2x 290X (reference card - blow hot air?)
> SSD with 128GB.
> 1100w power supply (aerocool strike-x)
> NH-D14
> 1 DVD-R
> I'm looking for a decent chassis with a lower price, however, not all options are available where I live, unfortunately.
> 
> Only air cooling. No liquid, please.
> 
> *1)* On the first page is a video about a smoke machine test. It was super cool. It is a kind of common test? Is it safe? Or may it damage components? Any special typo of smoke machine to use?
> 
> *2)* What other methods could I use to check temperature? digital thermometer gun? What else is effective and cheap to test configurations to test performance?
> 
> *3)* Do you suggest fan controllers? For example NZXT Sentry LX, NZXT Sentry LXE, aerosol touch 2100, Lamptron FC6, Scythe Kaze Master Ace - Km02-bk, etc? I mean, they really help on custom build focused on good air flow? Or just waste of money? If they are good, what do you recommend? The external one looks nice, but i guess it's just more one card to generate heat and stop air flow. Make sense?
> 
> *4)* I'm considering one of the following chassis. One was referenced here, so more one point to it. The others looks "nice", but I don't know about cooling (airflow) and noise that is what matters to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Raidmax Agusta (I liked the bottom of this chassis):
> http://raidmax.com/chassis/agusta.html
> 
> Raidmax Raptor:
> http://raidmax.com/chassis/raptor.html
> 
> Aircool Strike-X Xtreme:
> http://www.aerocool.com.tw/chassis/strike-x/858.html
> 
> CoolerMaster CM690 Basic - Asia Only (I guess it's the same of a CM690 but without black painted inside):
> http://www.coolermaster.com/case/mid-tower-cm690-series/cm-690-ii-basic/
> 
> Suggestions? Advises?
> 
> *5)* Based on the chassis selected, do you suggest some customization? I never did it, but I should be able to cut some grids if necessary, etc. Nothing complex.
> 
> *6)* Based on my hardware specs and average high ambient temperature, do you suggest what kind of air flowing? How many fan and what size / type to use? Where?
> 
> Examples and references of customization of any of the above chassis that decrease temperature in a relevant way are very welcome.
> 
> Please, keep in mind that where I live not a lot of options exist, let me describe a few:
> 
> Cooler Sickleflow 120mm Cooler Master (Blue, Green or Red)
> Cooler Fan Aerocool Shark 120mm (different colors)
> Fan Led Xtraflo Cooler 120mm (blue or red)
> Akasa Ak-fn057 Apache 120mm (single color)
> Cooler Deepcool 120mm (black)
> Cooler Master R4-exbb-20pk-r0 Fan Excalibur 120mm (black)
> Viper S-flow - 120mm - Akasa (yellow)
> Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120mm (black and gray)
> Berflo 3 Pin Sleeve Bearing 120mm (black)
> Evercool Cooler Fan 92mm 2p Sleeve Bearing (black)
> Evercool Sleeve Bearing 80mm
> Cooler Ball Bearing Dc 12v (no brand)
> Enermax T.b Vegas Duo 140mm (Blue and red)
> Akasa Ak-f1825sm-cb 180mm (blue with LED)
> Cooler Master Megaflow 200mm Com (Led red or blue)
> Cooler Master Excalibur 120mm - Barometric Ball Bearing (BBB) (black)
> Cougar Vortex Pwm 120mm (black and orange)
> Cougar Turbine Cf-t12s 120mm (black and orange)
> corsair sp120 pwm (black and red)
> Sanyo San Ace 120mm (black)
> Thermaltake Blue-Eye LED Case Fan 120mm
> Zalman Ultra Quiet Fan ZM-F3 LED 120mm (blue)
> 
> If you could give a few alternatives of coolers I will be very thankful, because some of them are really expensive here.
> 
> I really appreciated answer from all members, but if the masters (@psyclum @ehume @PontiacGTX @doyll [@RagingCain @Shadowclock) want to help I will be very happy too.
> 
> Thanks.


From the fans you listed (ones I have experienced).
- Avoid all CM fans. Only ones worth the money are Blademasters, Jetflows, Megaflows, and surprisingly their standard non-LED case fans.
- Thermaltake fans are loud. I'm a fan of the Thunderblades, but they are a bit annoying when undervolted. The Blue Eyes you mentioned are good heatsink/radiator fans, and alright case fans if you turn them all the way down using that silly VR knob they have.

As for the cases, I have only been around the CM 690 and the Strike-X. The CM 690 has rather good build quality and lots of space. Good airflow options too. The Strike-X is big enough for lots of equipment and has good cooling capacity. Personally I would go for the CM if these where your only choices.


----------



## DJXavier

Hi doyll, psyclum and Melcar!

Thanks for your answers, very appreciated.

I was considering PWM. However my EVGA X79 SLI does not appear to be good for it, I guess it only support one PWM control, I'm able to control for example a few fans with split / molex, but not able to take control of different set of fans for example SET 01: CPU, SET 02: GPU, SET03: exhaust, etc. That's the reason that I was thinking on fan control device.

No, I was unable to find Fractal Design Arc Midi R2. The only Fractal Design that I found here is CORE 3000 USB 3.0

http://www.fractal-design.com/home/product/cases/core-series/core-3000-usb-30

A bit more expensive in comparison with other options, but if it will really makes the difference I may afford it.









Interesting. But what you mean by ratio of airflow? Where can I read more about it to learn?

I found a new one that also fits on my budget:

CORSAIR CARBIDE 300R chassis.

Better option in comparison with previous?

I'm buying only at physical stores; I don't buy over the internet since most of them do not deliver where I live, even the ones on my country, as I told it's not hell, but pretty close









Can you please guys suggest other chassis that are better on the same range of price? I will look for them locally









So until the moment the CM 690 appear to be the best option. Should I use with the standard fan? Or any suggestion of cooling system with the fans that I listed previously?

Thanks.


----------



## doyll

I prefer the Arc Midi R2 for several reason. Don't know what it cost where you are but...

Arc Midi R2

Case dimensions - 230x460x515mm
CPU cooler clearance - 180mm
GPU clearance w/ HDD cages - 290mm
Front: 2 - 120/140mm fans (included is one hydraulic bearing 140mm Silent Series R2 fan, 1000 RPM speed)
Rear: 1 - 120/140mm fan (included is a hydraulic bearing 140mm Silent Series R2 fan, 1000 RPM speed)
Top: 3 - 120/140mm fans (included is one hydraulic bearing 140mm Silent Series R2 fan, 1000 RPM speed)
Bottom: 1 - 120/140mm fan (not included)

Core 3000

Case dimensions - 200x444x480mm
CPU cooler clearance 160mm
GPU clearance w/ HDD cages - 270mm
Front: 1 - 140mm fan (included is a hydraulic bearing 140mm Silent Series R2 fan, 1000 RPM speed); 1 - 120mm fan (not included)
Rear: 1 - 120mm fan (included is a hydraulic bearing 120mm Silent Series R2 fan, 1200 RPM speed)
Top: 2 - 120/140mm fans (included is one hydraulic bearing 140mm Silent Series R2 fan, 1000 RPM speed)
Bottom: 1 - 120mm fan (not included)
Side: 1 - 120/140mm fan (not included)

Arc Midi R2

30x16x35mm bigger
20mm more CPU cooler clearance
20mm more GPU clearance
Front 2 - 140mm front fans fit
Rear 1 - 140mm fan fits
Top 3 - 140mm fans fit
Bottom 1 - 140mm fan fits

Ratio of airflow is amount of air case fans flow thru case compared to amount of air component fans flow thru coolers. We always want the case fans to flow more air than cooler fans. If coolers have 1x 140mm & 2x 90mm fans we want 3x 140mm case intake fans flowing air in. (read link in my sig)

Carbide 300R might be a good case for you. Not quite as wide as Arc Midi R2 and no bottom vent but has 2 side vents. Haven't used one so can't give info on it.

About case fans and controlling them please read first link in my sig.


----------



## DJXavier

Hi doyll,

Thanks for reply.

This Arc Midi R2 appears to be awesome. I found it, but the price is too high, two times the price for CM 690 II basic or Core 3000. The price of Arc Midi R2 is around 300USD here.

I think I understand. On my case I will be using a Noctua NH-D14 which I guess is blowing a lot of air. So what I will need to create a proper air flow on chassis?
Quote:


> We always want the case fans to flow more air than cooler fans. If coolers have 1x 140mm & 2x 90mm fans we want 3x 140mm case intake fans flowing air in. (read link in my sig)


In this case when you say "1x 140mm & 2x 90mm fans" do you mean exhauster fans?

I checked the link but I'm a bit unsure yet









I checked you link about PWM as well, but I guess it should be good to have two different controls, at least one for CPU and one for GPU? And not one for both, right?

But I guess that my mobo only allows one. I checked specs but I can't find, it just says:

Code:



Code:


6+2 Phase PWM

References:

http://hothardware.com/News/EVGAs-X79-Motherboard-Lineup-Unveiled/

http://www.techspot.com/drivers/driver/file/information/15838/

About chassis I'm in doubt between CM 690 II and Core 3000 now. Both appear to be good. I saw this review and looks nice.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cases/2013/01/21/fractal-design-core-3000-review/3

I guess that both will fits my hardware, right?

Thanks.


----------



## doyll

Too bad it so expensive for Arc Midi









No, I mean 1x 140mm fan blowing thru CPU cooler and 2x 90mm fans blowing air into GPU. Fans in a row only count as one fan.. so CPU cooler with 1 fan in front of other is counted as one fan and GPU with 2 fans side by side is counted as 2 fans.

Usually the CPU works when the GPU works so running all fans of CPU fan header's PWM signal is not a problem.

As far as I can tell your motherboard only has PWM on the CPU fan header.

I found these cooler and GPU specs. No idea if the accurate or not.
Quote:


> CM 690 III
> The CM 690 III can hold graphic cards with a length up to 423 mm.
> If you are a fan of high end air cooling then you don't need to be afraid that your cooler will not fir since the CM 690 III supports coolers with a height up to 171 mm!


http://www.coolermaster.co.uk/product.php?product_id=6916


----------



## DJXavier

Hi doyll,

Sorry if I misunderstood, but English is not my native language.

By one fun in front of the other (in row?) do you mean this?



And by side by side do you mean this (the green ones)?



Just for curious, what is the benefit of put one cooler in front of the other as demonstrated on the first image?

Interesting, I will consider it. I guess that I will end up with a molex / split. I hope that my noctua NH-D14 works with it.

Do you suggested the following:
Quote:


> 1x 140mm fan blowing thru CPU cooler and 2x 90mm fans blowing air into GPU


Should I put them in front of the CPU? Or on the TOP? I guess that 3 fan coolers on the top is not possible on most chassis, right?

What do you suggest as exhauster and where?

Also, even if I decide for Core 3000 or CM 690 II should I cut the grid on the exhauster and remove it? A lot of people recommends it around the forum.

Unfortunately mine is not CM 690 III, but CM 690 II









Thanks.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJXavier*
> 
> Hi doyll,
> 
> Thanks for reply.
> 
> This Arc Midi R2 appears to be awesome. I found it, but the price is too high, two times the price for CM 690 II basic or Core 3000. The price of Arc Midi R2 is around 300USD here.
> 
> I think I understand. On my case I will be using a Noctua NH-D14 which I guess is blowing a lot of air. So what I will need to create a proper air flow on chassis?
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> We always want the case fans to flow more air than cooler fans. If coolers have 1x 140mm & 2x 90mm fans we want 3x 140mm case intake fans flowing air in. (read link in my sig)
> 
> 
> 
> In this case when you say "1x 140mm & 2x 90mm fans" do you mean exhauster fans?
> 
> I checked the link but I'm a bit unsure yet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I checked you link about PWM as well, but I guess it should be good to have two different controls, at least one for CPU and one for GPU? And not one for both, right?
> 
> But I guess that my mobo only allows one. I checked specs but I can't find, it just says:
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 6+2 Phase PWM
> 
> References:
> 
> http://hothardware.com/News/EVGAs-X79-Motherboard-Lineup-Unveiled/
> 
> http://www.techspot.com/drivers/driver/file/information/15838/
> 
> About chassis I'm in doubt between CM 690 II and Core 3000 now. Both appear to be good. I saw this review and looks nice.
> 
> http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cases/2013/01/21/fractal-design-core-3000-review/3
> 
> I guess that both will fits my hardware, right?
> 
> Thanks.
Click to expand...

Is this one your motherboard?

http://rampagedev.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/132-se-e775-k2_xl_51.jpg

If so, it seems it has all the fan headers pwm (4pin)

And between those two cases I'll definitely recommend the CM 690 II which is greater, has one front 140mm fan, you can add another 120/140 one on the 4x5.25" bay area (using 3x5.25" bays) and two 140mm top fans.
Also you can remove the lower part of the hdd cage and remain with "only" two 3.5/2.5 bays in order to get a nice inferior clearance and the possibility to add up to two 120mm bottom fans or a 240mm rad or (of course) one 140mm bottom fan









http://idg.bg/test/pcw/2010/1/14/14225-CM_690_II_008.jpg

And btw:
That 6+2 Phase PWM spec of your motherboard is related to the mainboard's VRM (or PWM, digital controller) and it has nothing to do with the pwm fan headers









@doyll
Those cpu and vga max specs are for the CM 693 and not the 692
And the exact measures (complete) are:


----------



## doyll

Fans in series (one in front of another) develop higher static pressure at same airflow


Fans in parallel (side by side) develop more airflow at same pressure.


NH-D14 normally uses 2 fans in series.


----------



## doyll

Arrow,
You are correct, they are for 690 III... as it says..







and DJXavier indeed has 690 II








690 II has 2 bottom vents. and as you said a fan in optical bays is very helpful.








Quote:


> If so, it seems it has all the fan headers pwm (4pin)


All is not as it seems. Most motherboards have many 4-pin fan headers.. BUT most motherboard 4-pin headers ARE NO PWM !!

Almost all motherboards only have PWM on the CPU_fan header /s.


----------



## DJXavier

Hi arrow0309 and doyll,

Thanks for fast reply.

Yes, that's my mobo! Where you saw the pwm pins? There is just one? Or more?

That's recommendation is great, because CM 690 II (Chinese version) is even cheaper in comparison with Core 3000.









Humm.. I guess that I need to study more before install this mobo! LOL

Can I install my NH-D14 with a molex / splitter for PWM? I was looking for it locally and the seller told that I should NEVER do this. So, I'm afraid now.

Interesting. But I guess that high air pressure is used only for radiations, which is not my case. Am I correct?

Thanks.


----------



## DJXavier

Hi doyll
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Arrow,
> You are correct, they are for 690 III... as it says..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and DJXavier indeed has 690 II
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 690 II has 2 bottom vents. and as you said a fan in optical bays is very helpful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All is not as it seems. Most motherboards have many 4-pin fan headers.. BUT most motherboard 4-pin headers ARE NO PWM !!
> 
> Almost all motherboards only have PWM on the CPU_fan header /s.


I'm confused now. How can I find the correct answer? I can't find any documentation online that specify it...









BTW, do you have any idea why the local seller told that I should NEVER plug a molex / splitter with he CPU cooler? The seller was very confident that nothing else could be plugged on the CPU cooler, and use a molex / splitter is a bad idea. Have you heard about it? Is really there a risk?

Thanks.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Arrow,
> You are correct, they are for 690 III... as it says..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and DJXavier indeed has 690 II
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 690 II has 2 bottom vents. and as you said a fan in optical bays is very helpful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All is not as it seems. Most motherboards have many 4-pin fan headers.. BUT most motherboard 4-pin headers ARE NO PWM !!
> 
> Almost all motherboards only have PWM on the CPU_fan header /s.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJXavier*
> 
> Hi doyll
> 
> I'm confused now. How can I find the correct answer? I can't find any documentation online that specify it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW, do you have any idea why the local seller told that I should NEVER plug a molex / splitter with he CPU cooler? The seller was very confident that nothing else could be plugged on the CPU cooler, and use a molex / splitter is a bad idea. Have you heard about it? Is really there a risk?
> 
> Thanks.


Just checked and doyll was right, the pwm support is limited to the cpu_fan header only for your Evga X79 SLI
However *all* the other fans can be voltage controlled by the bios of your motherboard

And about the D14 fans once again, I'm already using (right now) two (different) pwm fans (that I have in sig) with my Z77X-UP5 TH using a simple Y pwm splitter (you only have to check the max amp of the combined fans won't exceed that of your mobo's cpu_fan header)
The multiple pwm molex powered splitter is even better since no fan will draw power from your motherboard and you'll control all of them synchronized with the cpu fan









If you can't find that splitter at all, use whatever you can and control your fans with your mobo's bios or with the speedfan


----------



## doyll

What do you mean by "molex / splitter?"

I suggest using PWM fans with PWM splitter with molex power connector.


This is how they are wired. Some have more fan sockets, some have less, Swiftech is on a PCB.


----------



## eBombzor

Is there a way to control PWM fans with voltage? I have 2 Noctua A15s and they are both hooked up to my mobo using a low noise adapter so they are always running at 900 RPM. Well when I'm gaming, I would like to bump it up to 1200 RPM and when I'm just surfing the web I would like to turn it down to maybe 500 RPM. I'm just guestimating the RPM values for 12v and 5v.

My case came with a fan controller but it only supports 3-pin fans.


----------



## psyclum

AFAIK all PWM fans can be controlled by voltage regulation. the difference is PWM fans have additional circuit on the back of the motor to use the PWM signal to control the fan. w/o the 4th pin PWM singnal, it simply functions like a regular 3 pin fan.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Is there a way to control PWM fans with voltage? I have 2 Noctua A15s and they are both hooked up to my mobo using a low noise adapter so they are always running at 900 RPM. Well when I'm gaming, I would like to bump it up to 1200 RPM and when I'm just surfing the web I would like to turn it down to maybe 500 RPM. I'm just guestimating the RPM values for 12v and 5v.
> 
> My case came with a fan controller but it only supports 3-pin fans.


You can absolutely do that, but you don't have to with your board.

Looking at the manual of your board, you can control fans through voltage on the header SYS_FAN1, but you also have a bunch of PWM headers. You can control PWM fans on SYS_FAN2 and SYS_FAN3. Your CPU fan header can be configured in the BIOS to use PWM or voltage.

Here's the relevant part out of your motherboard's manual:



If it's a little like on my Gigabyte board, all SYS_FAN1/2/3 are tied together, use the same setting. If the board wants to run things at "50%", it will put 6V on the header number 1, and it will send 50% PWM signals on headers 2 and 3.

The BIOS is pretty useless and bad, but you can try to see if you like what happens if you tweak the settings it has. It uses the "system temperature" sensor and multiplies it with a factor to get a percentage, and you can change that factor.

What you could do is educate yourself how the software "SpeedFan" works. It will be able to do what you want, but it's annoying to configure.

Good luck.


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psyclum*
> 
> AFAIK all PWM fans can be controlled by voltage regulation. the difference is PWM fans have additional circuit on the back of the motor to use the PWM signal to control the fan. w/o the 4th pin PWM singnal, it simply functions like a regular 3 pin fan.


But Fractal designed the fan controller ports to only house 3-pin fan headers, so a 4-pin will not physically fit.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> You can absolutely do that, but you don't have to with your board.
> 
> Looking at the manual of your board, you can control fans through voltage on the header SYS_FAN1, but you also have a bunch of PWM headers. You can control PWM fans on SYS_FAN2 and SYS_FAN3. Your CPU fan header can be configured in the BIOS to use PWM or voltage.
> 
> Here's the relevant part out of your motherboard's manual:
> 
> 
> 
> If it's a little like on my Gigabyte board, all SYS_FAN1/2/3 are tied together, use the same setting. If the board wants to run things at "50%", it will put 6V on the header number 1, and it will send 50% PWM signals on headers 2 and 3.
> 
> The BIOS is pretty useless and bad, but you can try to see if you like what happens if you tweak the settings it has. It uses the "system temperature" sensor and multiplies it with a factor to get a percentage, and you can change that factor.
> 
> What you could do is educate yourself how the software "SpeedFan" works. It will be able to do what you want, but it's annoying to configure.
> 
> Good luck.


I'm not exactly trying to do that with my board b/c as you mentioned, the BIOS is really bad at fan control.

Another thing about the BIOS is that it controls fans differently depending on the header so one of my A15s runs at 800 RPM while another one runs at 900 RPM, both on low noise adapters. I disabled fan control in the BIOS so that the headers are at a constant 12v but I didn't expect the RPMs to be different. I would use Noctua's Y adapter but the configuration is pretty strange (one 3 pin and one 4 pin??)

I can't use SpeedFan because I get BSODs when I try to use it.

So this just leaves me with external/bay fan controllers but I do not know which one has voltage control and supports my 4-pin fans.

What I'm basically trying to do is replicate what my case fan controller does.

Thanks for the help guys.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Is there a way to control PWM fans with voltage? I have 2 Noctua A15s and they are both hooked up to my mobo using a low noise adapter so they are always running at 900 RPM. Well when I'm gaming, I would like to bump it up to 1200 RPM and when I'm just surfing the web I would like to turn it down to maybe 500 RPM. I'm just guestimating the RPM values for 12v and 5v.
> 
> My case came with a fan controller but it only supports 3-pin fans.


All the fans, even the 4pin pwm fans can do voltage speed control too and in fact your fans *are* voltage downvolted when you use the fan's low noise adapters
You can easily control both of the A15s with any rheobus (I did it several times) however you have to remove (cut off) a small part of your (fan controller) fan headers in order to plug the 4pin fan (male) connector. It's easy and you can do it even with a cutter.

But I'd suggest you a different approach (like I said before)








Simply use the Y pwm fan splitter bundled with your A15s, this one:



Plug the fan connector (male) onto your MoBo's cpu_fan header
If you're using the same type of fans it doesn't matter how you attack them, otherwise plug the main fan into the 4wire pwm header and the other one into the 3wire pwm header of your Noctua Y splitter (and remember, you'll only get one fan's rpm readings however they're both working well).
Then go to your Gigabyte D3H bios and set them in pwm mode (cpu fan, not sys fans) and manual control, then set the value of 2.0 slope pwm
Let me know how's working


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> I would use Noctua's Y adapter but the configuration is pretty strange (one 3 pin and one 4 pin??)


Don't worry about that. The one wire that is missing is for the speed sensor. The speed reading you will see reported to the board when using the Y-cable is only on the side with all wires. The Y-cable still wires the important stuff to both: ground, voltage, PWM signal.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> You can absolutely do that, but you don't have to with your board.
> 
> Looking at the manual of your board, you can control fans through voltage on the header SYS_FAN1, but you also have a bunch of PWM headers. You can control PWM fans on SYS_FAN2 and SYS_FAN3. Your CPU fan header can be configured in the BIOS to use PWM or voltage.
> 
> Here's the relevant part out of your motherboard's manual:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *If it's a little like on my Gigabyte board, all SYS_FAN1/2/3 are tied together, use the same setting. If the board wants to run things at "50%", it will put 6V on the header number 1, and it will send 50% PWM signals on headers 2 and 3.*
> 
> The BIOS is pretty useless and bad, but you can try to see if you like what happens if you tweak the settings it has. It uses the "system temperature" sensor and multiplies it with a factor to get a percentage, and you can change that factor.
> 
> What you could do is educate yourself how the software "SpeedFan" works. It will be able to do what you want, but it's annoying to configure.
> 
> Good luck.


If you are getting 6v to the fan it is not a PWM header. PWM always uses 12v and controls the speed by pulsing that 12v.

My money is on the SYS fan 2/3 are not PWM, but are variable voltage.

eBombzor
The reason their is only one rpm lead is motherboard can only process one rpm signal. If both fans supply rpm signals, the motherboard often freaks out trying to figure out what the rpm is.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> If you are getting 6v to the fan it is not a PWM header. PWM always uses 12v and controls the speed by pulsing that 12v.
> 
> My money is on the SYS fan 2/3 are not PWM, but are variable voltage.


My GA-Z77X-D3H has the exact same description in its manual (that picture was from the Z77/H77-D3H manual). Where it says "speed control" in the tables, that's intended as a hint about what's really going on with the header. The SYS_FAN2 and 3 headers are sending a PWM signal. SYS_FAN1 is modulating voltage.

For some reason, there's just one single setting for all three headers, and that's what I meant to describe in that paragraph about "50%". That's annoying as I'd guess you'd typically like to go to a very low percentage setting on the PWM headers, but that will make the fans on the first header stop because of too low voltage.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> My GA-Z77X-D3H has the exact same description in its manual (that picture was from the Z77/H77-D3H manual). Where it says "speed control" in the tables, that's intended as a hint about what's really going on with the header. The SYS_FAN2 and 3 headers are sending a PWM signal. SYS_FAN1 is modulating voltage.
> 
> For some reason, there's just one single setting for all three headers, and that's what I meant to describe in that paragraph about "50%". That's annoying as I'd guess you'd typically like to go to a very low percentage setting on the PWM headers, but that will make the fans on the first header stop because of too low voltage.


I'm a Doubting Thomas









I have not been able to verify that any 4-pin headers on motherboards other than CPU related ones are PWM. Several have tried to use PWM splitters and Phanteks PWM controlled hub for 3-pin fans with 12v power from PSU and fans ran at 100%. But when attached to CPU fan header fan rpm varied as it should. This leads me to believe the "speed control" on SYS fan headers is not sending a PWM signal.. as it does not function as such on 12v powered fans.

I'm more than willing to be proven wrong. If you can verify a 12v powered PWM splitter works on Z77/H77-D3H SYS fan 2/3 headers please let me know. Phaneks Enthoo Primo owners and those planning to get Phanteks' new Enthoo Luxe would love to be able to have more PWM control from motherboard.


----------



## deepor

So, I have a different board (it's the exact same description in my manual). I have fans connected like this:

SYS_FAN1: a 3-pin fan
SYS_FAN2: a PWM fan
SYS_FAN3: a 3-pin fan

Here's what happens in SpeedFan:

  

This is why I feel the manual is probably not lying about PWM on SYS_FAN2 at least.


----------



## doyll

Just because PWM fan is changing speed does not mean it is PWM controlled. PWM fans function same as 3-pin fans on variable voltage control.

I'll bet a pint







the SYS fan 2 header is varying the voltage to PWM fan the same as SYS fan 1 and SYS fan 3 are to doing to 3-pin fans.

This kind of thing has happened time after time and when it's all done and finished the only PWM headers were CPU fan headers.


----------



## deepor

I once had a 3-pin fan on SYS_FAN2 and it did not change speed. It behaved like that 3-pin fan on SYS_FAN3 and stayed at a constant speed. That's why I think it's really 12V all the time on those two headers, and the speed change that's seen means it's PWM.

EDIT: Alright... I tested exactly this right now. I plugged a 3-pin fan into SYS_FAN2 and it behaves like this:

 

I can't test SYS_FAN3 as it's somewhere behind the CPU cooler. I can only get to SYS_FAN2 easily.


----------



## doyll

I hear what you are saying and maybe it is PWM.. But without monitoring the pin 2 lead to see if it's 12v all the time or changing as fan speed changes, using a PWM splitter with 12v power from separate source, or a Phanteks PWM controlled 3-pin fan hub we don't know.


----------



## ehume

Gigabyte SYS_FAN headers until recently we're locked to chipset temps. The speed signal -- chosen by user to beVoltage or PWM -- responded to chipset temp in A fixed way. Better to get fan power from PSU.


----------



## doyll

Interesting, but still does not prove what is happening when you have PWM fan on it. By the same logic is SYS fan 3 has a 3-pin fan on on it.

As ehume says, 12v for PSU is best way.

Why does SYS fan 3 never change, is it a 580 rpm fan? As it's supposed to be the same as SYS fan 2, putting the PWM fan on it should give the same speed differences you get on SYS fan 2 when pluged into SYS fan 3.


----------



## deepor

Yes, SYS_FAN3 is a 3-pin fan regulated down by a Zalman Fanmate thingy.

On SYS_FAN2 I usually have a PWM fan. That's what those first three screenshots showed. The last two screenshots were an experiment showing how SYS_FAN2 behaves using a 3-pin fan.

I can't test SYS_FAN3 easily as my hand won't fit there without taking the CPU cooler off.


----------



## Peanuts4

So are you guys saying with a ARC Midi R2 (I have the windowed version not side vent) that I should use top exhaust fan spots as intakes?


----------



## ebhsimon

I'm using the most back top vent as an exhaust and the middle top as an intake on my arc midi r2.
I also have 2 intakes at the front and an exhaust at the back, it seems to work pretty well!


----------



## doyll

Advantage of using middle / front top vent as intake is supplying cool air to CPU cooler. But do be careful that if rear top is exhaust fan that the top intake is not drawing this heated exhaust back into case.


----------



## arrow0309

The case and the rest of the staff I ordered arrived today, so I already started to install stuff








Is gonna take me some time to finish all the things I want to (delidded cpu reapplying CLU, oc and temps testing as well) but I'm taking it slowly
Here there are the very first pics!










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Interesting, but still does not prove what is happening when you have PWM fan on it. By the same logic is SYS fan 3 has a 3-pin fan on on it.
> 
> As ehume says, 12v for PSU is best way.
> 
> Why does SYS fan 3 never change, is it a 580 rpm fan? As it's supposed to be the same as SYS fan 2, putting the PWM fan on it should give the same speed differences you get on SYS fan 2 when pluged into SYS fan 3.


SYS_3 never seems to change unless it gets warmer. Try putting a hair dryer or a hot air gun on the chipset and watch the fan speed up. It's a relic, a bit of unchanged code.


----------



## DJXavier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> The case and the rest of the staff I ordered arrived today, so I already started to install stuff
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is gonna take me some time to finish all the things I want to (delidded cpu reapplying CLU, oc and temps testing as well) but I'm taking it slowly
> Here there are the very first pics!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


This is really great. What is this chassis?

Thanks.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Interesting, but still does not prove what is happening when you have PWM fan on it. By the same logic is SYS fan 3 has a 3-pin fan on on it.
> 
> As ehume says, 12v for PSU is best way.
> 
> Why does SYS fan 3 never change, is it a 580 rpm fan? As it's supposed to be the same as SYS fan 2, putting the PWM fan on it should give the same speed differences you get on SYS fan 2 when pluged into SYS fan 3.
> 
> 
> 
> SYS_3 never seems to change unless it gets warmer. Try putting a hair dryer or a hot air gun on the chipset and watch the fan speed up. It's a relic, a bit of unchanged code.
Click to expand...

I confirm, never use a fan connected to the sys fan anymore, I had to raise the pwm slope up to its max 2.50 and still remains at mid rpms on my Gigabyte Z77X-UP5 TH which is not such an old MoBo.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJXavier*
> 
> This is really great. What is this chassis?
> 
> Thanks.


It's the new CM 690 III


----------



## doyll

If you can wait awhile the new Phanteks Enthoo Luxe is scheduled to be out in March. Not sure of price but MSRP is $139.90 US
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkRJsjuvQVY

There is also a cheaper stripped down similar version smilar to Enthoo Luxe called the Enthoo Pro for MSRP of $89.90 US and most of the bells and whistles on Enthoo Luxe will be available as optional accessories.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rV0xwNkoGA


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Interesting, but still does not prove what is happening when you have PWM fan on it. By the same logic is SYS fan 3 has a 3-pin fan on on it.
> 
> As ehume says, 12v for PSU is best way.
> 
> Why does SYS fan 3 never change, is it a 580 rpm fan? As it's supposed to be the same as SYS fan 2, putting the PWM fan on it should give the same speed differences you get on SYS fan 2 when pluged into SYS fan 3.
> 
> 
> 
> SYS_3 never seems to change unless it gets warmer. Try putting a hair dryer or a hot air gun on the chipset and watch the fan speed up. It's a relic, a bit of unchanged code.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I confirm, never use a fan connected to the sys fan anymore, I had to raise the pwm slope up to its max 2.50 and still remains at mid rpms on my Gigabyte Z77X-UP5 TH which is not such an old MoBo.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DJXavier*
> 
> This is really great. What is this chassis?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's the new CM 690 III
Click to expand...

With all that said, I have a couple of PWM case fans that respond to my SYS_1 and SYS2/3 on my GA-Z87-UD4H. They stay steadily on low speed, and I have the assurance that they will speed up on demand. I have 3 PWM fans -- 2 on the CPU, 1 as a top intake -- hooked up to the *two* CPU headers(!).

That said, Voltage control is lame. Either the fans run 50% or 100%. It's better than nothing, but not much. Still, I like the motherboard.

Glad to hear about the two new Phanteks cases. I'll have to ask my editors as soon as I get back from Ireland.


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> If you can wait awhile the new Phanteks Enthoo Luxe is scheduled to be out in March. Not sure of price but MSRP is $139.90 US
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkRJsjuvQVY
> 
> There is also a cheaper stripped down similar version smilar to Enthoo Luxe called the Enthoo Pro for MSRP of $89.90 US and most of the bells and whistles on Enthoo Luxe will be available as optional accessories.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rV0xwNkoGA


Enthoo Pro is iffy on "value".

Fan hub + PSU shroud + reservoir plate + top filter removal ease (well it's not that much harder but instead of popping off the top you have to undo thumbscrews) + lighting (unimportant to me, but for some people it's big) + additional included 140mm fan on top + side window + aluminum panels are worth $30-40 easily.









The Enthoo Pro does seem less restrictive though since it drops the front panel covering/vent.

See Hardwarecanucks video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytyomK8E1Wg


----------



## doyll

All I've seen is the videos above. So far everything Phanteks has released and been good quality for fair price. Guess we will have to wait and see how Enthoo Pro is.


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> All the fans, even the 4pin pwm fans can do voltage speed control too and in fact your fans *are* voltage downvolted when you use the fan's low noise adapters
> You can easily control both of the A15s with any rheobus (I did it several times) however you have to remove (cut off) a small part of your (fan controller) fan headers in order to plug the 4pin fan (male) connector. It's easy and you can do it even with a cutter.
> 
> But I'd suggest you a different approach (like I said before)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simply use the Y pwm fan splitter bundled with your A15s, this one:
> 
> 
> 
> Plug the fan connector (male) onto your MoBo's cpu_fan header
> If you're using the same type of fans it doesn't matter how you attack them, otherwise plug the main fan into the 4wire pwm header and the other one into the 3wire pwm header of your Noctua Y splitter (and remember, you'll only get one fan's rpm readings however they're both working well).
> Then go to your Gigabyte D3H bios and set them in pwm mode (cpu fan, not sys fans) and manual control, then set the value of 2.0 slope pwm
> Let me know how's working


But where do I plug my CPU cooler fan into?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Gigabyte SYS_FAN headers until recently we're locked to chipset temps. The speed signal -- chosen by user to beVoltage or PWM -- responded to chipset temp in A fixed way. Better to get fan power from PSU.


Yeah this is why I don't want to use the mobo for fan control. The fan control sucks and it's locked only to chipset temps.

Can you guys recommend me a bay fan controller or maybe even a digital one (if it's not too expensive)?

One more question: If a fan controller only has 3-pins and I plug in my 4-pin fans into the 3-pin headers, is it still the PWM signal that's controlling my fans or is it voltage? And does it matter if I control it via PWM or voltage?

Thanks again for the help.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> All the fans, even the 4pin pwm fans can do voltage speed control too and in fact your fans *are* voltage downvolted when you use the fan's low noise adapters
> 
> You can easily control both of the A15s with any rheobus (I did it several times) however you have to remove (cut off) a small part of your (fan controller) fan headers in order to plug the 4pin fan (male) connector. It's easy and you can do it even with a cutter.
> 
> But I'd suggest you a different approach (like I said before)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simply use the Y pwm fan splitter bundled with your A15s, this one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plug the fan connector (male) onto your MoBo's cpu_fan header
> 
> If you're using the same type of fans it doesn't matter how you attack them, otherwise plug the main fan into the 4wire pwm header and the other one into the 3wire pwm header of your Noctua Y splitter (and remember, you'll only get one fan's rpm readings however they're both working well).
> 
> Then go to your Gigabyte D3H bios and set them in pwm mode (cpu fan, not sys fans) and manual control, then set the value of 2.0 slope pwm
> 
> Let me know how's working
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But where do I plug my CPU cooler fan into?
Click to expand...









This isn't rocket science.







Cooler fans plug into the splitter. Splitter plugs into CPU fan header.


----------



## DJXavier

Hi all-

Sorry for delay in reply, I did more local research and I found more options for my chassis. I'm still tending to CM 690 series, but I found too many options and different reviews pointing Antec as a good one as well.

Remembering that it needs to use Noctua NH-D14 and two big GPUs. I don't care about beautiful, the important is:

Good air cooling and noise.
if I have to cut the grills or change / add the fans it's OK for me to improve performance of airflow and noise.
My final options are (local price):

Antec One - http://www.antec.com/product.php?id=704923&fid=4&lan=us - *Price: 310,00*

CM 690 II Basic - http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/product.php?product_id=2971 - *Price 309,00*

CM 690 II Advanced (USB3) - http://www.coolermaster.com/case/mid-tower/cm-690-ii-advanced-usb3/ - *Price 485,00*

CM 690 III - http://www.coolermaster.com/case/mid-tower-cm690-series/cm693/ - *Price 470,00*

CM 690 III Window - http://uk.hardware.info/productinfo/195093/cooler-master-cm-690-iii-window - *Price 480,00*

My questions are:

1) Should I leave Antec one or get it? Why?

2) What is the best model CM 690 II advanced or CM 690 III? Why?

3) What is best CM 690 III or CM 690 III window?

4) What is the most valuable based on my parameters? And why?

Thanks a lot.


----------



## DJXavier

Hi doyll and arrow0309,

I searched locally for a PWM splitter with molex and I found one









If you can't find that splitter at all, use whatever you can and control your fans with your mobo's bios or with the speedfan









http://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?tpl=product/product.detail.tpl&no=181&type=Cables&type_sub=Fan%20Cable%20Adapters&model=AK-CBFA03-45

Will the above multiple pwm molex powered splitter fan draw power from my motherboard and I'll control all of them synchronized with the cpu fan? The PWM on my board is limited to cpu_fan.

Is it a good option?

Thanks.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJXavier*
> 
> Hi doyll and arrow0309,
> 
> I searched locally for a PWM splitter with molex and I found one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you can't find that splitter at all, use whatever you can and control your fans with your mobo's bios or with the speedfan


http://www.akasa.com.tw/update.php?tpl=product/product.detail.tpl&no=181&type=Cables&type_sub=Fan%20Cable%20Adapters&model=AK-CBFA03-45

Will the above multiple pwm molex powered splitter fan draw power from my motherboard and I'll control all of them synchronized with the cpu fan? The PWM on my board is limited to cpu_fan.

Is it a good option?

Thanks.[/quote]
Akasa FLEXA FP5 splitter will work fine for PWM fans and draws power from PSU.

Only problem is the are a bag of worms.. so what I did was tape each pair of leads coming from the fan sockets together every 10cm or so. Same for leads from molex and fan plug. I also grouped them all together 15-20cm from molex and fan plug. With this grouping of wires it looks more like a Gelid... not just cleaner looking but solves the problem of so many wires ending in pins with no stress relieve to keep them from breaking off.


----------



## DJXavier

Hi doyll,

Interesting. Maybe I could use something more fashion like this?



BTW, I'm a bit concerned, if I group them together for example will be hard to put the plugs on the pins since most fans are not located near, correct? For example, the CPU fan is away from front fans that is far away from side top or bottom fans.

Thanks.


----------



## SniperCzar

After looking over a lot of Ehume's test data, I went out and bought some San Ace Silent 9S1212H401s along with Molex enclosures and pins from Arrow. Cost was only about $15 a fan plus $8 shipping, which is noticeably cheaper than the set of 3 Noctuas I was looking at previously. Planning on rigging them up in my Corsair Carbide Air 540 cube case and running them off an NZXT Sentry Mesh, I'll let you guys know how it turns out. Should be quiet enough for everyday use and still powerful enough to vacuum up some Cheeto crumbs at my next LAN party









Thanks to Ehume for his encyclopedic San Ace knowledge and test data, it's almost overwhelming.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SniperCzar*
> 
> After looking over a lot of Ehume's test data, I went out and bought some San Ace Silent 9S1212H401s along with Molex enclosures and pins from Arrow. Cost was only about $15 a fan plus $8 shipping


+rep for finding that price. It's much cheaper than Newark, where I have been getting my fans.

The 9S1212H401s run 2700 rpm, so be sure to put them on a diet -- 5v is fine. Also, you can run them on Voltage control if your MB supports it. Remember, the specs on the 9S1212H401 say 36 dB, and it is an honest spec -- I get that with my SPL meter.

Tell us how you went about ordering from Arrow. Did you make an inquiry? I never found a catalog.

I suppose we will have to ask them if they carry PWM San Aces. I got a batch of 9S1212P4M011's from Tonar industries -- they had over-ordered. The 9S1212P4M011 is the PWM version of the 9S1212M4011. I absolutely love that fan. The 9S1212L4011 and 9S1212L401 are quieter still. PWM versions of -L-, -M-, and -F- fans would be awesome.

Great find.

BTW -- I tested Jetflo's and San Ace Silents here. The San Aces did very well indeed through my 30 FPI rad test setup. They also wildly exceeded spec when unobstructed.


----------



## SniperCzar

This was where I found the online Arrow catalog - http://www.arrownac.com/

I managed to clear out the last 10 of their stock on the H401s - http://components.arrow.com/part/detail/47897485S8964964N5935

I really had my heart set on the 50mm thick Long Life ones, but they were something like $80 a fan no matter where I looked.


----------



## Melcar

So this is the setup I finally decided on...

Case: HAF 912
CPU Cooler: Thermaltake FRIO mounted in a front to back fashion
Available fans: 4 x TT Blue Eyes, 3 x TT Thunderblades, 2 x CM Megaflows, 2 x CM Jetflos, 2 x Panaflos (medium speed), 4 x Yate Loons (LED medium speed)

Place 2 x Blue Eyes at the bottom front. Remove the drive cage. 1 x Blue Eye intake on the side panel. Block off the front top fan port. 1 x Thunderblade as exhaust is the rear top position. 1 x Thunderblade as rear exhaust.

The Blue Eyes will be running at their lowest setting, with the top Thunderblades voltage controlled from the mobo header. I may latter attempt to mod a fourth fan inside my 5.25" drive cage. Still deciding if I should leave the PSU fan facing outside the case or towards the inside.
Though about putting the Megaflow in the front bottom position, but I get better HDD temps with the 2 120mm fans. Still on the fence whether to replace the Jetflows on the FRIO with the Panaflos; the Panaflos are louder and are not PWM (3 pin fans) so they can't run as quiet as the Jetflows, but at high their noise is much more agreeable to my ears than the screaming Jetflos. Quiet idle PC vs. loud (but better "sounding") PC at load? The Panaflos would totally block off access to my RAM though, and removing the fan holders on the FRO is a pain.


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't rocket science.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cooler fans plug into the splitter. Splitter plugs into CPU fan header.


Ooops I read the post wrong my bad


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Ooops I read the post wrong my bad










I've done it too.


----------



## DJXavier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJXavier*
> 
> Hi all-
> 
> Sorry for delay in reply, I did more local research and I found more options for my chassis. I'm still tending to CM 690 series, but I found too many options and different reviews pointing Antec as a good one as well.
> 
> Remembering that it needs to use Noctua NH-D14 and two big GPUs. I don't care about beautiful, the important is:
> 
> Good air cooling and noise.
> if I have to cut the grills or change / add the fans it's OK for me to improve performance of airflow and noise.
> My final options are (local price):
> 
> Antec One - http://www.antec.com/product.php?id=704923&fid=4&lan=us - *Price: 310,00*
> 
> CM 690 II Basic - http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/product.php?product_id=2971 - *Price 309,00*
> 
> CM 690 II Advanced (USB3) - http://www.coolermaster.com/case/mid-tower/cm-690-ii-advanced-usb3/ - *Price 485,00*
> 
> CM 690 III - http://www.coolermaster.com/case/mid-tower-cm690-series/cm693/ - *Price 470,00*
> 
> CM 690 III Window - http://uk.hardware.info/productinfo/195093/cooler-master-cm-690-iii-window - *Price 480,00*
> 
> My questions are:
> 
> 1) Should I leave Antec one or get it? Why?
> 
> 2) What is the best model CM 690 II advanced or CM 690 III? Why?
> 
> 3) What is best CM 690 III or CM 690 III window?
> 
> 4) What is the most valuable based on my parameters? And why?
> 
> Thanks a lot.


Any input about it masters?









Thanks and sorry for dumb question.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJXavier*
> 
> Any input about it masters?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks and sorry for dumb question.


1) Antec is a bad choice. The top intake is right over the CPU.

2) CM693 since you don't have to mod to fit in two 120mm front intakes in the front (140mm seems to also be the case, but I prefer 120mm)

3) Depends on if you want a side intake or not.

4) CM693. It's the most aesthetically pleasing (but that's just my opinion), has the most air cooling options, and costs less than the CM692 Advanced while still having USB 3.0 ports (assuming the prices you listed are the ones you have available to you).


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HybridCore*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DJXavier*
> 
> Any input about it masters?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks and sorry for dumb question.
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Antec is a bad choice. The top intake is right over the CPU.
> 
> 2) CM693 since you don't have to mod to fit in two 120mm front intakes in the front (140mm seems to also be the case, but I prefer 120mm)
> 
> 3) Depends on if you want a side intake or not.
> 
> 4) CM693. It's the most aesthetically pleasing (but that's just my opinion), has the most air cooling options, and costs less than the CM692 Advanced while still having USB 3.0 ports (assuming the prices you listed are the ones you have available to you).
Click to expand...

Fully quoting for the 693, it's a fantastic case!









And if you don't mind I've uploaded for you guys some hires pics with mine, just finished today









http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049390159294.JPG
http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049393194036.JPG
http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049397995116.JPG
http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049400155603.JPG
http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049404229098.JPG
http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049461416192.JPG
http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049459568356.JPG
http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049464995442.JPG
http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049467444180.JPG
http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049471140821.JPG
http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049511157155.JPG
http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049515127712.JPG
http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049521542503.JPG
http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049525119393.JPG
http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049530528909.JPG


----------



## AlphaC

I'd get the 690 III instead of a 690 II USB 3.0 , _even more so_ if the 690 II USB3.0 also costs more. The extra width will help you with huge air coolers. 690 II actually supports 177mm, 690 III supports 170mm officially , so I think the extra width is for cable routing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *690 II USB 3.0*
> Front: 140 x 25mm Blue LED fan x 1 / 1200RPM / 19dBA
> Rear: 120mm fan x 1 / 1200 RPM / 17dBA
> Top: 120mm fan x 1/ 1200RPM /17dBA (supports 120/140mm fan x 2)
> *Bottom: 120/140mm fan x 2 (optional)* <-- likely lost due to shortening length / depth of case
> Left side: 120/140mm fan x 2 (optional)
> Right side: 80 x 15mm x 1 (optional) <--- more or less useless
> HDD cage: 120mm fan x 1 (optional)


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *690 III*
> Top: 120/140mm fan x 2, or 200mm fan x 1 (optional)
> Front: 200mm fan x 1 (installed), or *120/140mm fan x 2* , 180mm fan x 1(optional)
> Rear: 120mm fan x 1 (installed)
> Side: 120mm fan x 2 or 180/200mm fan x 1(optional)
> Bottom: 120mm fan x 1 (optional)
> HDD cage: 120mm fan x 1 (optional)


It comes down to 140mm x2 in front or 140mm x 2 in bottom also. The 690 II comes with solid PCI-E slot covers as well (bad for ventilation).



Outside of cooling the HDD bay on top is lost too.


----------



## DJXavier

Hi @HybridCore, @arrow0309 and @AlphaC,

Thanks for answers.

Well, 3 votes for CM 690 III, no way to do other choice.









Thanks for input and explanation.

1) Is there any difference based on ventilation / air-flow between CM 690 III with and without window?

2) Is the lateral cooling really helpful? If yes, I guess the non-window version is better, right?

3) arrow0309 nice pics. What modifications you did? Coolers? What was the result with default config?

Thanks.


----------



## mikupoiss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> Fully quoting for the 693, it's a fantastic case!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And if you don't mind I've uploaded for you guys some hires pics with mine, just finished today
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049390159294.JPG
> http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049393194036.JPG
> http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049397995116.JPG
> http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049400155603.JPG
> http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049404229098.JPG
> http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049461416192.JPG
> http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049459568356.JPG
> http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049464995442.JPG
> http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049467444180.JPG
> http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049471140821.JPG
> http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049511157155.JPG
> http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049515127712.JPG
> http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049521542503.JPG
> http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049525119393.JPG
> http://www.xtremeshack.com/photos/20140123139049530528909.JPG


I think you would get better results if you removed the extra pci-e slot covers.
Also, why did you put that CM fan on the CPU cooler?


----------



## doyll

Think the PCI cover is being used to mount bottom of fan.

With the TY-145 fan in middle the 120m front fan is almost redundant. Probably because it is black.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJXavier*
> 
> Hi @HybridCore, @arrow0309 and @AlphaC,
> 
> Thanks for answers.
> 
> Well, 3 votes for CM 690 III, no way to do other choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for input and explanation.
> 
> 1) Is there any difference based on ventilation / air-flow between CM 690 III with and without window?
> 
> 2) Is the lateral cooling really helpful? If yes, I guess the non-window version is better, right?
> 
> 3) arrow0309 nice pics. What modifications you did? Coolers? What was the result with default config?
> 
> Thanks.


1) Not really. Air flow generated by the front fans shouldn't be lost without the side intake since your GPU will be sitting around there so its fan will keep the air moving.

2) Sometimes, sometimes not. I'd prefer it since in most "standard" mid tower cases, the front intake is pretty far from the GPU itself. Make the side panel fan an intake if you have a standard blower type cooler, exhaust (or no fan) for 3rd party coolers (the ones that spew hot air everywhere and are terrible for airflow).


----------



## studmark

GEDC0654.JPG 3499k .JPG file
]Thanks,Took the rear fan out,put side fan back in and holy ****>
just wondering how to make a new screen for side now,and how to cut the orange glass i got for he side

maybe i get BitFenix Spectre Pro 200mm Fan but don know if i willl fit proper ?
nzxt dont fit,and the stock fan from, thermaltake is not the best,this summer i can paint it
overclocked to 4.00 amd fx 8120

GEDC0656.JPG 3469k .JPG file


----------



## AlphaC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJXavier*
> 
> Hi @HybridCore, @arrow0309 and @AlphaC,
> 
> Thanks for answers.
> 
> Well, 3 votes for CM 690 III, no way to do other choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for input and explanation.
> 
> 1) Is there any difference based on ventilation / air-flow between CM 690 III with and without window?
> 
> 2) Is the lateral cooling really helpful? If yes, I guess the non-window version is better, right?
> 
> 3) arrow0309 nice pics. What modifications you did? Coolers? What was the result with default config?
> 
> Thanks.


The extra fan slots would only largely help if you filled them in with fans.

If they aren't filled they only act as vents , which is a pressure loss (could be a good thing or a bad thing depending on the GPU cooler). You're trying to retain pressure from the front fans so that air flows out the back instead of recirculating in the case.

I've seen at least one article where side panel fan does a LOT when you are below 4 fans http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2012/02/10/the-big-cooling-investigation/6


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SniperCzar*
> 
> This was where I found the online Arrow catalog - http://www.arrownac.com/
> 
> I managed to clear out the last 10 of their stock on the H401s - http://components.arrow.com/part/detail/47897485S8964964N5935
> 
> I really had my heart set on the 50mm thick Long Life ones, but they were something like $80 a fan no matter where I looked.


Thanks for the link to the Arrow catalog. When I follow the catalog I get links to some fans, but not the page you reached. How did you get there?

Also, I saw they had the 9S1212P4M01 -- basically the fan I have eight of. The PWM function makes it a great fan.

BTW -- Anyone know what a D means in a San Ace product number?

Edit -- Found it myself. D01 means a fan has a locking sensor, as opposed to an RPM sensor (01) or no sensor (02).


----------



## doyll

We don't want higher pressure in the case.
We only want more fans blowing in so air leaks out of case instead of more fans blowing out causing air to leak into case. (I know, that requires a slight difference in pressure.. less than it take to blow out a candle.)
What vents are open, where fans are placed, what restrictions have to be overcome is the issue.
Remember, we want air_flow_, not air_blow_. Fans _blow_ air and it's up to use how that air _flows_ thru the case and components.
We want the heated air from components to _flow_ out of the case, not _blow_ around inside of case making all the air in case warmer.
We want cool intake air to _flow_ to components without mixing with any warmer air inside of case.
What vents are open, what vents have intake/exhaust fans, how much air the fans push, what is in the air_flow_, (like HDD cages, cables, long GPU PCB/cooler, how much heated air components _blow_ out, etc) all affect the air_flow_ through the case.
My sig rig with only 3x 140mm intakes and no exhaust is never more than 2-3c warmer inside than in room.
CPU cooler is vented out back bottom vent and back grills removed. Idle temps are CPU [email protected] and GPU [email protected] Full load/stress test temps are CPU [email protected] and GPU [email protected] Room temp is 20-23c. Do remember that my intake fans are variable speed with front intakes controlled by CPU and bottom intake controlled by GPU PWM signals. CPU controlled from fans idle @650-750rpm; load @700-900rpm. GPU controlled bottom intake idle @600-700rpm, load @900-1050rpm.


----------



## 161029

Rebuilt my computer yesterday and decided to change my top 140mm from an intake to an intake at the 5.25" bays.





Unfortunately, I don't have a 3rd fan to use as an intake on top, so I'm using my ODD to block off the front top opening so air wouldn't be forced out that way.

Feedback?


----------



## Melcar

Have you tried covering the grills with construction paper? That's what I did with my HAF 912 to cover up the forward top fan position and the side vent. Sure, it looks kind of whack inside with all the tape and stuff, but from the outside it looks nice.


----------



## 161029

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melcar*
> 
> Have you tried covering the grills with construction paper? That's what I did with my HAF 912 to cover up the forward top fan position and the side vent. Sure, it looks kind of whack inside with all the tape and stuff, but from the outside it looks nice.


Strangely enough, I don't have any. I'll try to find some and give it a try.


----------



## Melcar




----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> All the fans, even the 4pin pwm fans can do voltage speed control too and in fact your fans *are* voltage downvolted when you use the fan's low noise adapters
> You can easily control both of the A15s with any rheobus (I did it several times) however you have to remove (cut off) a small part of your (fan controller) fan headers in order to plug the 4pin fan (male) connector. It's easy and you can do it even with a cutter.
> 
> But I'd suggest you a different approach (like I said before)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simply use the Y pwm fan splitter bundled with your A15s, this one:
> 
> 
> 
> Plug the fan connector (male) onto your MoBo's cpu_fan header
> If you're using the same type of fans it doesn't matter how you attack them, otherwise plug the main fan into the 4wire pwm header and the other one into the 3wire pwm header of your Noctua Y splitter (and remember, you'll only get one fan's rpm readings however they're both working well).
> Then go to your Gigabyte D3H bios and set them in pwm mode (cpu fan, not sys fans) and manual control, then set the value of 2.0 slope pwm
> Let me know how's working


Ok I'm ready to try this method but I have a few questions:

1. The splitter has one 4-pin and one 3-pin so will the RPMs of both fans be the same?

2. Will the 3-pin fan be controlled via voltage to match the RPM of the PWM fan?

3. How does 2.0 slope compare to Normal/Auto mode?


----------



## deepor

I think you are you misunderstanding what those three wires on one half of the 4-pin Y-cable do. It's cutting the sensor wire, the wire for the third pin that's reporting the fan's RPM back to the motherboard. The fourth pin that's transmitting the PWM signal is still there.

So what's connected to both fans is voltage, ground and PWM signal. When you look at the fan speeds in a monitoring program, the speed reading you see will be for the fan on the first Y-cable half, the half with all four wires.

You can also use that Y-cable for 3-pin fans, but you will have to use a fan header that changes voltage if you want to change speed.

I don't know how the manual slope settings compare to that "normal" stuff. On my GA-Z77X-D3H board, the lowest 0.75 setting seems to be the same as "silent" and that's all I know.


----------



## GeneO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Ok I'm ready to try this method but I have a few questions:
> 
> 1. The splitter has one 4-pin and one 3-pin so will the RPMs of both fans be the same?
> 
> 2. Will the 3-pin fan be controlled via voltage to match the RPM of the PWM fan?
> 
> 3. How does 2.0 slope compare to Normal/Auto mode?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Ok I'm ready to try this method but I have a few questions:
> 
> 1. The splitter has one 4-pin and one 3-pin so will the RPMs of both fans be the same?
> 
> 2. Will the 3-pin fan be controlled via voltage to match the RPM of the PWM fan?
> 
> 3. How does 2.0 slope compare to Normal/Auto
> Ifmode?


Only one rpm status can be signaled back to the MB, not both. That is why one pin is missing. The one with the 4th pin reports the rpm, the one with the three pin does not. If this is split to fans that have the same maximum rpm, then the rpm will be the same for both at all times. if the fans are different and have different rpm, then they will not. PWM controls by a duty cycle. So say the duty cycle is 30%, fan A is 1200 rpm fan, B is a 2000 rpm fan, and that fan B is on the 4 pin splitter connection. Fan A will run at 30% of 1200 rpm = 360 rpm and fan B will run at 30% of 2000 rpm = 600rpm. The reported rpm will be 600 rpm. If you switched fans then it would report 360 rpm.

The above assumes these are all PWM. The same thing holds if they are all not PWM but voltage controlled from the MB header instead of a PWM signal.

However if you mix a PWM fan with non PWM fan off of a PWM header, the PWM will be controlled but the non-PWM will run at full speed.


----------



## eBombzor

Yeah you were right, I misunderstood the whole pin stuff. Now I get what you guys were saying above lol.

Sorry I've been pretty slow this week


----------



## eBombzor

Oh one more question. Can I use a Y-splitter on a Y-splitter? Or will my fan connectors explode? I want to connect both of my Noctua A15s and my CPU fan for a total of 3 fans.

Thanks guys.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Oh one more question. Can I use a Y-splitter on a Y-splitter? Or will my fan connectors explode? I want to connect both of my Noctua A15s and my CPU fan for a total of 3 fans.
> 
> Thanks guys.


I tried to find an answer to this question, and did not find much. Someone mentioned 12 Watts per fan header typically works. It was posted here: http://forums.tweaktown.com/asrock/50453-asrock-z77-extreme-4-max-power-fan-header.html
Quote:


> The unwritten standard for mobo fan headers is 1 Amp, or 12W at 12V.


The power use of your NF-A15 fans seems very low, about 1 W per fan, so that would be fine.


----------



## eBombzor

Thank you deepor you're amazing


----------



## doyll

What deepor said.
1 amp / 12 watt per header is a good guess.

Another way is to use PWM splitter with molex/sata power from PSU. I like the Gelid PWM 1-to-4 splitter

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=17923

Below is how it works; power from PSU, control from motherboard. Two or three can be daisy-chained together for more fans


Or a Swiftech 8-way PWM splitter

http://www.swiftech.com/8-waypwmsplitter.aspx

For 3-pin fans Phanteks has a PWM controlled hub that will be available as an accessory soon.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Oh one more question. Can I use a Y-splitter on a Y-splitter? Or will my fan connectors explode? I want to connect both of my Noctua A15s and my CPU fan for a total of 3 fans.
> 
> Thanks guys.


I used to do that, back when I used only Voltage-controlled fans. It works, but consult your mb manual. My Gigabyte boards had a nominal 1 Amp capacity (which I learned only after running 1.2 Amps through one -- and we're not even talking about startup loads). I had to write Gigabyte tech support to find that out. My As.s board has a limit of 2 Amps/header. That is in the manual. But I have seen specs on later boards that are limited to 1 Amp.

For perspective, 12 AP-15's draw 0.083 Amps apiece (that's one Watt each) for a total of 1 Amp (12 Watts). Figure out the Y-cables. That would be messy.


----------



## doyll

For several 3-pin fans on one motherboard header I'd suggest something like the NZXT Grid Fan Hub for 10 fans or Phobya 4-pin (molex) to 6x 3-pin fan with a 3-pin fan to molex adapter.


----------



## eBombzor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> What deepor said.
> 1 amp / 12 watt per header is a good guess.
> 
> Another way is to use PWM splitter with molex/sata power from PSU. I like the Gelid PWM 1-to-4 splitter
> 
> http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=17923
> 
> Below is how it works; power from PSU, control from motherboard. Two or three can be daisy-chained together for more fans
> 
> 
> Or a Swiftech 8-way PWM splitter
> 
> http://www.swiftech.com/8-waypwmsplitter.aspx
> 
> For 3-pin fans Phanteks has a PWM controlled hub that will be available as an accessory soon.


I like the Swiftech splitter, maybe I'll buy one of those in the future if I ever buy more fans.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I used to do that, back when I used only Voltage-controlled fans. It works, but consult you mb manual. My Gigabyte boards had a nominal 1 Amp capacity (which I learned only after running 1.2 Amps through one -- and we're not even talking about styartup loads). I had to write Gigabyte tech support to find that out. My As.s board has a limit of 2 Amps/header. That is in the manual. But I have seen specs on later boards that are limited to 1 Amp.
> 
> For perspective, 12 AP-15's draw 0.083 Amps apiece (that's one Watt each) for a total of 1 Amp (12 Watts). Figure out the Y-cables. That would be messy.


So wait one amp can power 12 AP-15s? My mobo manual doesn't really tell me the power limit of the fan headers and Gigabyte's tech support is closed on Sundays. What section of the manual would this usually be in?

Should I try it or should I wait for Gigabyte's tech support to respond? I mean, I'm only powering 3 fans...


----------



## eBombzor

Ok well I tried it anyways and it's working! And I didn't even have to spend a dime.

Thanks for the help everyone.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Should I try it or should I wait for Gigabyte's tech support to respond? I mean, I'm only powering 3 fans...


I accessed Gigabyte's tech support via email. It takes a couple of days, but they do respond.

I'm glad you have your system working.


----------



## eBombzor

Hey guys I have a few more questions










I want to replace my stock Evo fan with one of my A15s but I've noticed that the A15 runs at a much lower RPM than the stock fan. When I run P95 the Evo fan goes up to around 1600 RPM while my Noctua stays at 1000 (both on the same PWM header).
Will I get worst temperatures because of the lower RPM or will it not matter?

Also, I decided to buy one more fan. This time it needs to be 3-pin because I want to use it with my case fan controller. I want a fan that handles lower voltages well (no ticking!).
Which 3-pin fan would you guys recommend? This fan is for the bottom intake next to my PSU just in case you were wondering.

EDIT: Just read through Dave's Air Cooling Guide. What are your opinions on Delta fans in a practical scenario (Balance between noise and performance)? He did say that they have a better noise to performance ratio than Noctua fans.


----------



## arrow0309

Sorry for the late rep, I've been busy with various OC tests








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJXavier*
> 
> Hi @HybridCore, @arrow0309 and @AlphaC,
> 
> Thanks for answers.
> 
> Well, 3 votes for CM 690 III, no way to do other choice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for input and explanation.
> 
> 1) Is there any difference based on ventilation / air-flow between CM 690 III with and without window?
> 
> 2) Is the lateral cooling really helpful? If yes, I guess the non-window version is better, right?
> 
> 3) arrow0309 nice pics. What modifications you did? Coolers? What was the result with default config?
> 
> Thanks.


1) Depends of the videocard (s) you're planning to use
2) The side fan when used as intake (in my case) made my oc'ed and overvolted 7970 gain a nice, 4°C drop on the vrm temps and a smaller, 1°C over the gpu max temp:

http://s9.postimg.org/5l9stkvj1/Intake_gpu.jpg

3) Thanks, I've had with my new case enough improvement over my old setup









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*
> 
> Think the PCI cover is being used to mount bottom of fan.
> 
> With the TY-145 fan in middle the 120m front fan is almost redundant. Probably because it is black.


Correct for the PCI cover, however it is grilled and I removed all the others
About the TY-147 (not TY-145) I partially agree, could be enough for a decent (winter) OC:

http://s27.postimg.org/et9bqs1cx/First_stable_LLC_Level_3.jpg

And it's a nice improvement over my previous system and CM 690 case for ~ 5°C lower (but I'm using a lower vcore too)
However the TY-147 central fan only was used above due to my ram testing & swapping so I really needed the D14's front clearance
And of course, I returned to my Blade Master front fan later since is the minimum for my taste right now (used to have up to three fans: GT AP-29 @3000rpm / TY-143 @ 2500rpm / Silverstone FHP141 140x38mm, 2000rpm last summer, definitely louder even downvolted)
Considering the two fans I'm using right now are good enough and even silent when downvolted (using both the pwm of the bios and voltage control to lower even more with my FanTastic Tuning software) I'm really comfortable for now and I like the black colors too (never used the Noctua fans, I just don't like their colors) and last but not least, the D14's front CM fan gave me another 3°C lower (max) core temp

















Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *arrow0309*
> 
> All the fans, even the 4pin pwm fans can do voltage speed control too and in fact your fans *are* voltage downvolted when you use the fan's low noise adapters
> You can easily control both of the A15s with any rheobus (I did it several times) however you have to remove (cut off) a small part of your (fan controller) fan headers in order to plug the 4pin fan (male) connector. It's easy and you can do it even with a cutter.
> 
> But I'd suggest you a different approach (like I said before)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Simply use the Y pwm fan splitter bundled with your A15s, this one:
> 
> 
> 
> Plug the fan connector (male) onto your MoBo's cpu_fan header
> If you're using the same type of fans it doesn't matter how you attack them, otherwise plug the main fan into the 4wire pwm header and the other one into the 3wire pwm header of your Noctua Y splitter (and remember, you'll only get one fan's rpm readings however they're both working well).
> Then go to your Gigabyte D3H bios and set them in pwm mode (cpu fan, not sys fans) and manual control, then set the value of 2.0 slope pwm
> Let me know how's working
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ok I'm ready to try this method but I have a few questions:
> 
> 1. The splitter has one 4-pin and one 3-pin so will the RPMs of both fans be the same?
> 
> 2. Will the 3-pin fan be controlled via voltage to match the RPM of the PWM fan?
> 
> 3. How does 2.0 slope compare to Normal/Auto mode?
Click to expand...

About the slope pwm, you have to try it by yourself, in automatic gave me lower rpms for my Blade Master & TY-147 in idle and medium load, not enough for my taste









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Hey guys I have a few more questions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want to replace my stock Evo fan with one of my A15s but I've noticed that the A15 runs at a much lower RPM than the stock fan. When I run P95 the Evo fan goes up to around 1600 RPM while my Noctua stays at 1000 (both on the same PWM header).
> Will I get worst temperatures because of the lower RPM or will it not matter?
> 
> Also, I decided to buy one more fan. This time it needs to be 3-pin because I want to use it with my case fan controller. I want a fan that handles lower voltages well (no ticking!).
> Which 3-pin fan would you guys recommend? This fan is for the bottom intake next to my PSU just in case you were wondering.
> 
> EDIT: Just read through Dave's Air Cooling Guide. What are your opinions on Delta fans in a practical scenario (Balance between noise and performance)? He did say that they have a better noise to performance ratio than Noctua fans.


The A15 is a bigger, 140mm fan, it is normal it has to use a lower rpm (even if I consider it not enough for its lower static pressure), however I'm not sure is gonna suit well with your Evo, designed to run with one (or two) 120 mm fans
I don't even like the Noctuas but if they're ok for you, i'd advise you the F12 model (120mm, 1500rpm, higher static pressure), two fans in P/P


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Hey guys I have a few more questions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I want to replace my stock Evo fan with one of my A15s but I've noticed that the A15 runs at a much lower RPM than the stock fan. When I run P95 the Evo fan goes up to around 1600 RPM while my Noctua stays at 1000 (both on the same PWM header).
> Will I get worst temperatures because of the lower RPM or will it not matter?
> 
> Also, I decided to buy one more fan. This time it needs to be 3-pin because I want to use it with my case fan controller. I want a fan that handles lower voltages well (no ticking!).
> Which 3-pin fan would you guys recommend? This fan is for the bottom intake next to my PSU just in case you were wondering.
> 
> EDIT: Just read through Dave's Air Cooling Guide. What are your opinions on Delta fans in a practical scenario (Balance between noise and performance)? He did say that they have a better noise to performance ratio than Noctua fans.


If the A15 needs to go higher, it will.


----------



## eBombzor

Ok thanks guys. I will keep the stock fan on the Evo.

Do you guys think the difference in noise/ performance is worth it to return my Noctuas and buy something else? I can get a full refund + paid shipping.


----------



## SniperCzar

So this happened today -





Holy *cow* do these things move air. I've installed quad CPU servers that had less airflow than even a pair of these...

It's enough to completely cool and dry my sweaty palms between respawns when I'm gaming.

At 5v - Heavily OC'd GPU temps dropped 4C in FURMARK. Full speed they dropped 9C and my GPUs actually throttled down their blowers by one or two notches, again, this is in *FURMARK*!

This is the best investment I've made in my rig since I bought an SSD. Seriously. Glad I bought an extra box. Case is a Corsair Carbide Air 540, btw.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Ok thanks guys. I will keep the stock fan on the Evo.
> 
> Do you guys think the difference in noise/ performance is worth it to return my Noctuas and buy something else? I can get a full refund + paid shipping.


Why return the Noctuas? True, they are not the highest cfm fans, but for the amount they push, you won't find quieter.

Delta fans come into their own at higher cfm airflow.

SniperCzar -- congrats on your San Aces. Every single San Ace I have tested wildly exceeds its published specs. It seems that their specs are to allow for any conceivable manufacturing variable.


----------



## eBombzor

Ok I'm going to follow your advice and just stick to my Noctuas









Though I'm still in need of a 3-pin fan... I've been looking around and most people are recommending the new Phanteks fan or Cougar vortex fans.

Also is it ok to have my PSU up rather than it facing down? My PSU doesn't line up with the PSU fan grill at the bottom and it's cutting off like a fourth of the fan's intake. My PSU gets a bit toasty too. Will having a side panel fan as an intake help?


----------



## doyll

eBombzer
Phanteks are good. Cougar are ho-hum, better fans for similar prices are available. Ehume can probably suggest some.

Turning PSU should be no problem.


----------



## eBombzor

Update: Returned my Noctuas anyway because of some other complications.

So I am about to pull the trigger for the Phanteks, is that a good choice?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835709023&clickid=3KVXf3wbIUUI1bdS912U7RlCUkT3-fRpLQaNUE0&iradid=97618&ircid=2106&irpid=79301&nm_mc=AFC-IR&cm_mmc=AFC-IR-_-na-_-na-_-na

Do San Aces come in any 140mm variants? I heard great things about those fans, maybe I should buy some off of eBay?

EDIT: How do the noise of Gelid Silent 14s compare to Noctuas?


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Do San Aces come in any 140mm variants? I heard great things about those fans, maybe I should buy some off of eBay??


Yes, but only in 38mm thick versions like this one: http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=31238
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> Tell us how you went about ordering from Arrow. Did you make an inquiry? I never found a catalog.
> 
> I suppose we will have to ask them if they carry PWM San Aces. I got a batch of 9S1212P4M011's from Tonar industries -- they had over-ordered. The 9S1212P4M011 is the PWM version of the 9S1212M4011. I absolutely love that fan. The 9S1212L4011 and 9S1212L401 are quieter still. PWM versions of -L-, -M-, and -F- fans would be awesome.
> 
> Great find.


I ordered a "few" of the 9S1212P4M011 from Mouser and apparently they had to order some extra to meet the minimum from the factory so they have some in stock now: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Sanyo-Denki/9S1212P4M011/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduiojBz9Pco6byuUfmNRsfnOjv5apPKBY0yeDyibuSmWAw%3d%3d


----------



## eBombzor

Dang $50 no thanks.

Are Scythe Slip Stream 140s quiet?

EDIT: What's the difference between the TY-14x?


----------



## SniperCzar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> I ordered a "few" of the 9S1212P4M011 from Mouser and apparently they had to order some extra to meet the minimum from the factory so they have some in stock now: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Sanyo-Denki/9S1212P4M011/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduiojBz9Pco6byuUfmNRsfnOjv5apPKBY0yeDyibuSmWAw%3d%3d


Really tempted to pick up a pair of these now for my D14. The 140 in the middle that comes with it seems loud now, never thought I'd say that. I might just have it mounted improperly, idk. Swapping for jet black fans would really ruin the aesthetics of my case though









People hate on Noctua colors, but it actually works quite nice with my RGB LEDs. In other news, the three H401s on the front end of my case suck enough air down at full throttle to grab a sheet of paper from 8 inches away. *Filtered*. I measured...


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dang $50 no thanks.
> 
> Are Scythe Slip Stream 140s quiet?
> 
> EDIT: What's the difference between the TY-14x?


Quiet is a relative thing dependent on your ears and fan speed.
Assuming you mean Scythe Slip Stream 140 PWM Adjustable VR aka Kaze Maru 2 (SM1425SL12HPVC-V) they are very good.
Ehume did a fan review and choose the Kaze Maru 2 & TY-140 as best 140mm fans.

Thermalright TY-140 series fans all use the same 26.5mm thick housings in different colors. The TY-14013 are 13mm thick.

TY-140 & TY-147 have the Enhanced Hyper-Flow Bearing (EHFB) & are same except for color.
TY-140, TY-143 & TY-147 all have the original fan blade design.
TY-141 & TY-143 have ball bearings... not sure wht bearing is in TY-145.
TY-141 & TY-145 have different blade design and are same except for color (TY-150 has same blade design)
TY-143 is 130cfm 2500rpm.
All others are 73.6cfm 1300rpm.

TY-14013 have 13 blades of a different design, EHFB, are 13mm thick 64.52cfm, 1300rpm


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> I ordered a "few" of the 9S1212P4M011 from Mouser and apparently they had to order some extra to meet the minimum from the factory so they have some in stock now: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Sanyo-Denki/9S1212P4M011/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduiojBz9Pco6byuUfmNRsfnOjv5apPKBY0yeDyibuSmWAw%3d%3d


Excellent find. +rep


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SniperCzar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> I ordered a "few" of the 9S1212P4M011 from Mouser and apparently they had to order some extra to meet the minimum from the factory so they have some in stock now: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Sanyo-Denki/9S1212P4M011/?qs=%2fha2pyFaduiojBz9Pco6byuUfmNRsfnOjv5apPKBY0yeDyibuSmWAw%3d%3d
> 
> 
> 
> Really tempted to pick up a pair of these now for my D14. The 140 in the middle that comes with it seems loud now, never thought I'd say that. I might just have it mounted improperly, idk. Swapping for jet black fans would really ruin the aesthetics of my case though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People hate on Noctua colors, but it actually works quite nice with my RGB LEDs. In other news, the three H401s on the front end of my case suck enough air down at full throttle to grab a sheet of paper from 8 inches away. *Filtered*. I measured...
Click to expand...

I measured those fans here. The 9S1212H401's averaged 110 cfm. Pushing through a 30 fpi rad they still averaged 63 cfm. Strong little buggers.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> I measured those fans here. The 9S1212H401's averaged 110 cfm. Pushing through a 30 fpi rad they still averaged 63 cfm. Strong little buggers.


Nice results for those 1600 JetFlos, I may order a couple


----------



## eBombzor

Thanks for the comparison doyll









How do the ball bearings compare the the EHFB bearings?

I'm leaning towards the 143 because of how wide the RPM range is. But if ball bearing on the 143 is worst then I will stick to either the TY-140 or the Phanteks 140mm fan.


----------



## psyclum

whenever possible i try to stay with ball bearing. some sleeve bearing (pretty much all bearing that is not ball bearing are a variation / improved versions of sleeve bearing) are quieter then ball bearing, but ball bearing would have more consistent performance over years of service.


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Thanks for the comparison doyll
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do the ball bearings compare the the EHFB bearings?
> 
> I'm leaning towards the 143 because of how wide the RPM range is. But if ball bearing on the 143 is worst then I will stick to either the TY-140 or the Phanteks 140mm fan.


I notice a slight difference in their sound but don't hear any difference in sound level. On a meter they are slight higher dBA but not enough to hear.

On a cooler the extra rpm might be for to play with. And if cooler and case fans are all PWM controlled they do ramp up faster. Below 800rpm they are close in rpm to other TY-140 series fans.
TY-143 . TY-140
. 950rpm . 860rpm
1100rpm . 900rpm
1250rpm 1000rpm
1400rpm 1100rpm
1850rpm 1150rpm
2000rpm 1200rpm
2500rpm 1300rpm

As I've said, mine run below 950=1050rpm max. on sig rig. when rendering graphics all cores 95-100% load for hours sometimes.


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## eBombzor

Oh man so many decisions. I'm only going to use these fans for case cooling BTW (exhaust, side, bottom).

Does the 143 get loud at 1300+ RPM? Is the 143 overkill for case fans? Might as well go with the 140/7 or the Phanteks fan if it's overkill.

Geez no comparisons between the Phanteks or 140/3/7s... I'm just going to buy both and decide for myself which one I like better.


----------



## arrow0309

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Oh man so many decisions. I'm only going to use these fans for case cooling BTW (exhaust, side, bottom).
> 
> Does the 143 get loud at 1300+ RPM? Is the 143 overkill for case fans? Might as well go with the 140/7 or the Phanteks fan if it's overkill.
> 
> Geez no comparisons between the Phanteks or 140/3/7s... I'm just going to buy both and decide for myself which one I like better.


The TY-143 is definitely an overkill as a case fan
Even for a cpu cooler fan is hell loud (above 1500rpm)
Tried that in this combo with my old case CM690:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!








Now they're all four out of my pc


----------



## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> Oh man so many decisions. I'm only going to use these fans for case cooling BTW (exhaust, side, bottom).
> 
> Does the 143 get loud at 1300+ RPM? Is the 143 overkill for case fans? Might as well go with the 140/7 or the Phanteks fan if it's overkill.
> 
> Geez no comparisons between the Phanteks or 140/3/7s... I'm just going to buy both and decide for myself which one I like better.


TY-143 is same volume as other TY-140 series fans to 1300rpm. It only gets louder at higher rpm. As Arrow said "above 1500rpm."

I'm use 3x TY-140 case fans and had the TY-143 fans on 14PE with a duct to back vent and grill removed . The case fans at 900rpm with 14PE at 1100rpm mean more airflow into case than moving through cooler.


Now back to getting CryOrig R1 Ultimate into my Define R2








Teaser


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## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doyll*


What's that GPU cooler?


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## doyll

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> What's that GPU cooler?


Scythe Setsugen


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## kevindd992002

I recently joined the SLI bandwagon and I have some concerns. Here is my setup:



The GTX 670 in the primary PCI-E slot (top) significantly overclocks better than the one in the secondary PCI-E slot (bottom). My monitor is connected directly to the primary card. These are my concerns:

1.) Is it always necessary to install the higher clocking card in the primary PCI-E slot because the games that aren't SLI-compatible will use it and will use the secondary card for PhysX? What is the deal here?

2.) My temps are good because I use aftermarket coolers for both the cards and I have great case airflow. The primary card cools better because it uses the Arctic Cooling Hybrid Cooler (watercooling + air cooling) and the secondar card uses the Arctic Cooling Xtreme III air cooler. But if you notice, the space in between the two GPUs is larger than the space between the bottom of the secondary card and the top of the PSU. I'm thinking that the three fans of the secondary card are somewhat "choked" out of air and I feel that they could perform better if this was not the case. Is this necessarily true? I'm just not sure if it would be better to switch the places of the GPU so that the one with the Xtreme III will suck air better because it would have larger space to suck from. The one with the Hybrid cooler has only one intake fan on the rightmost side anyway.

* By the way, I have a 200mm side panel fan set as an intake too so air is blowing to those GPUs. What do you guys think? Please help.


----------



## eBombzor

@kevindd992002

If you're not having any problems with temps then you will be fine. I'm not sure about 1) but for 2), I think the fans on the 2nd card will be fine since you have a 200mm fan blowing onto the GPUs. Switching the position of the cards probably won't do anything IMO. I think it's fine the way it is.

Alright guys, I ordered 2x Phanteks PH-F140HPs and one PH-F140SP for my case. I will tell you guys how they are when they get here


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eBombzor*
> 
> @kevindd992002
> 
> If you're not having any problems with temps then you will be fine. I'm not sure about 1) but for 2), I think the fans on the 2nd card will be fine since you have a 200mm fan blowing onto the GPUs. Switching the position of the cards probably won't do anything IMO. I think it's fine the way it is.
> 
> Alright guys, I ordered 2x Phanteks PH-F140HPs and one PH-F140SP for my case. I will tell you guys how they are when they get here


Thanks for the comment


----------



## eBombzor

Will have a mini-review soon


----------



## doyll

Look forward to it eBombzor


----------



## eBombzor

Phanteks F140 Mini Review







(Keep in mind that I'm not an expert so don't expect me to match ehume's expertise







)

*The Fans*:


F140HP
120mm mounting holes
4-pin PWM header
600-1300 RPM

F140SP
140mm mounting holes
3- pin header
1200 RPM

140mm fans
UFB Bearing

*The Box*:


1x fan + 4 screws (F140SP also includes a 400mm extender)

*The Pics*:




























The integrated cable is fairly long even without the extender


















*Fan config*:


2x front intake (R2)
1x bottom intake (F140HP)
1x rear exhaust (F140HP)
1x side intake (F140SP)
*Performance + Noise*: I don't have any fancy CFM measuring devices or mics so will give you my personal experiences in comparison to the A15s. I promise I will include a noise test video in the future. But for now, here is a pretty accurate representation of how the F140 sounds like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxcx19JrwbE

@ idle: F140s experiences faint bearing noise that is only audible if you have your ear next to it. Other than that, the A15s and F140s are very quiet.
@ load: F140s have a much better noise profile than the A15s. F140s are audible but mostly due to air turbulence. The A15s experienced some motor whining but wasn't anything too bad.
@ 600 RPM: The A15s barely move any air. The F140s move more than the A15s but both are pretty close.
@ 1200 RPM: The F140s are much more effective at moving air at 1200 RPM than the A15s. During gaming load when the fans ramp up to 1200 RPM, my 780 Ti only went up to 65 C in comparison to the Noctuas which reached 68 C. Not a huge difference but the F140s did lower my ambient temps by 5 C.

*The Verdict*:


The Good
Fairly cheap ($15)
Bearing noise is basically nonexistent
The F140HP comes in a variety of colors (Blue, Orange, Black, White)

The Mediocre
Barely any accessories
The F140SPs only comes in one color variant


I really can't think of anything else to say, I mean these are just fans







. I realized after doing all these test that it probably wasn't worth the hassle to exchange my A15s. Nevertheless, I can 100% recommend both the A15s and the F140s to anyone who is in need of fans.

Hope you guys enjoyed! Feel free to ask any questions.


----------



## Khalenth

what is the best option, for 3 120mm intake fans on Corsair Carbide 540 Air Flow ?


----------



## doyll

Thanks eBombzor. Nice job.


----------



## Mshenay

Hmm I recently went with 3 exhaust fans and one intake

My front most case pulls air through the HDD Bay [at the bottom of my case]

then I have one side Fan Exhuast fan which pulls the hot air from my GPU

then two fans at the top 140mm and 80mm pulling air from the CPu Heat Sink, the fan on my heat sink feeds into my 80mm fan

temps though aren't bad, my room sits at like 72f and my cpu and gpu both idle around 36c ,

cpu hits 70c under 100% load [65-70]

gpu tops out at 65 with the GPU fans at 75%

Still I'm happy with my current case at the moment, spent 2 hours last night redoing my air flow, and my idle temps didn't change much but my load temps dropped around 5-6c

I've got a crappy Rosewell case, so I'm limited to one side fan [Heat sink is to big for the other one]

although I'm thinking of building a whole new rig, going with a full size case, Any tips for a case that would be good? As well as how to adjust the fans in teh new case


----------



## Pakeo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pakeo*
> 
> That seems like it will cool my CPU, but not my video card. Although it would be nice to cool the CPU more, it's not my priority. My CPU tops out at around 50C. (I haven't gamed in a while, so I can't remember.) I can move the DVD burner to the bottom slot. Does anyone have anything to add?


Well, I know it's been a while, but I finally flipped my top fan to intake, and it was a pain to do, because Cooler Master didn't bother to thread the mounting holes on the other side of the fan, so I had to make sure the screws went in straight. I don't think switching to intake has made a difference. It may have even made my temps worse. There's a part of it that is in front of the heatsink, so this might be screwing up the airflow, or it could be that it's now pushing hot air from the CPU towards the video card. I can also hear a light "chugging" sound from the fan, like there's a little tiny car inside my computer now. I should've made note of temps before flipping it. I'm using Planetside 2 with all settings maxed as a benchmark, because in my opinion, real world testing is better for my needs. Yes, my methods are _*very*_ unscientific.

Okay, I recorded some temps. Here are the results:

*Intake*

Idle
Room - 67.8 F

CPU - 35 C
Mobo - 34 C
C:\ - 34 C
GPU - 48 C

Stressed - During PS 2 session
Room - 76.4

(I'm aware of the room temperature difference, but you'll see with the exhaust test, I have a comparable environment temp.)

CPU - 44 C
Mobo - 41 C
C:\ - 38 C
GPU - 71 C

*Exhaust*

Idle
Room - 75.6 F

CPU - 36 C
Mobo - 33 C
C:\ - 34 C
GPU - 35 C

Stressed - During PS 2 session
Room - 76.0 F

CPU - 46 C
Mobo - 36 C
C:\ - 35 C
GPU - 66 C

I think the winner here is clear. As predicted in ehume's original post, a top intake raises my temps, because it's not in front of the heatsink. Unfortunate, as this means I'm stuck with a negative pressure system, until I invest in another fan, which might hurt temps rather than help. I guess when I do, it'll probably be a side intake fan, as a bottom intake might mess up the airflow of the video card, as a top intake does, and I don't feel like getting an aftermarket heatsink for my video card. Thanks to those that offered any advice. Reps coming, as soon as I go back and figure out who helped me.

*Update*
I just realized the HAF 922 accepts two 120mm or 140mm fans in place of the top 200mm. I could buy a smaller fan, place it so it's in front of the heatsink, then move the 200mm to the side. I may look into this into the future. It needs to be a quiet fan though. My ears are very sensitive to noise. I could also move the second fan on my Silver Arrow to a pull position, remove the rear fan, install that on top, and put the 200mm on the side as intake and see if this is an improvement. But I'm not sure if a the push-pull configuration will work as effectively as it would with a single tower heatsink, and I don't have snips to remove the grill. Dammit, why can't case manufactures just use easy to remove wire grills? >_< I don't feel like spending money on that at this time. The bottom line is, I could've bought a slightly better case. However, I still think this one is still a pretty good case for airlfow, despite its shortcomings.


----------



## ehume

Just had a review published. The Deep Silence 6 is not really aimed at airheads, but it will cool quietly.


----------



## cheuk3

how is thermaltake urban t81?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cheuk3*
> 
> how is thermaltake urban t81?


In theory, it ought to be OK, maybe better, maybe a lot better than that. But it is really designed to be very good at accommodating rads. Check out the diagrams in the linked page.

The review from Thomas C. here is not too promising for an air-oriented case.

As usual, do your homework, then make your decision.


----------



## CrazyElf

@Ed Hume, what do you think about the Corsair Air series of cases? I wish there was a full tower version available.

Air flow seems pretty good on them without a hard drive cage impeding on the front of the cases.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CrazyElf*
> 
> @Ed Hume, what do you think about the Corsair Air series of cases? I wish there was a full tower version available.
> 
> Air flow seems pretty good on them without a hard drive cage impeding on the front of the cases.


The only one I see is the Carbide Air 540. I have wanted to play with that case. OTOH, I have read some . . . interesting reviews. I suggest that before you plunge, you read.


----------



## CrazyElf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> The only one I see is the Carbide Air 540. I have wanted to play with that case. OTOH, I have read some . . . interesting reviews. I suggest that before you plunge, you read.


Any particular reviews?

Here for example is Anandtech's
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7124/corsair-carbide-air-540-case-review

Kitguru
http://www.kitguru.net/components/cases/luke-hill/corsair-carbide-series-air-540-cube-case-review/8/

There's a couple more that I have read over the past day or so without linking.

Owner's Club here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1404897/official-corsair-carbide-air-540-owners-club-gallery/0_100

Or does this case have a serious design flaw that is not widely discussed?


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CrazyElf*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ehume*
> 
> The only one I see is the Carbide Air 540. I have wanted to play with that case. OTOH, I have read some . . . interesting reviews. I suggest that before you plunge, you read.
> 
> 
> 
> Any particular reviews?
> 
> Here for example is Anandtech's
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/7124/corsair-carbide-air-540-case-review
> 
> Kitguru
> http://www.kitguru.net/components/cases/luke-hill/corsair-carbide-series-air-540-cube-case-review/8/
> 
> There's a couple more that I have read over the past day or so without linking.
> 
> Owner's Club here:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1404897/official-corsair-carbide-air-540-owners-club-gallery/0_100
> 
> Or does this case have a serious design flaw that is not widely discussed?
Click to expand...

I was thinking more of user reviews that suggest the case may be a bit flimsy and the included fans a loud. You can (and probably should) replace stock fans anyway.


----------



## CrazyElf

Ah I see. Thanks for the update.

Yeah I am not surprised. The Carbide series does represent the lower end of cases.

Yet another option (for those with the budget to do so) is the buy a Case Labs case and air cool it.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CrazyElf*
> 
> Ah I see. Thanks for the update.
> 
> Yeah I am not surprised. The Carbide series does represent the lower end of cases.
> 
> Yet another option (for those with the budget to do so) is the buy a Case Labs case and air cool it.


Carefully read reviews of Case Labs cases. I've never seen one, but some user reviews give me pause.


----------



## CrazyElf

Interesting. You said that for Corsair too.

Most reviews I have read relate to higher end water-cooling setups, where Case Labs cases are generally highly regarded.

- They seem to make their cases across the board for water cooling set ups
- Standardization across cases, using 3.5mm aluminum for construction and various parts across different lines, some of which are interchangeable
- Outside of that they seem to have supplied for professional and industrial settings (this is a plus)
- Good cable management and layout, designed mainly for watercooling
- Everything is easy to access and there are custom mounting systems for PSUs, radiators, and other accessories (ex: for water cooling, reservoirs for example)
- Cases seem to come in different sizes from smaller cases to massive setups intended for 4 GPUs and 2P boards

To that end, they seem to be a good option for those with a large budget and who like to have a customized case for their needs. Quality is high, although they never designed for air cooling. This seems to be a case of "you get what you pay for", so to speak. The big issue I see with their cases is that they have designed for water cooling and that you need to order additional parts, which can get expensive.


----------



## ehume

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CrazyElf*
> 
> Interesting. You said that for Corsair too.
> 
> Most reviews I have read relate to higher end water-cooling setups, where Case Labs cases are generally highly regarded.
> 
> - They seem to make their cases across the board for water cooling set ups
> - Standardization across cases, using 3.5mm aluminum for construction and various parts across different lines, some of which are interchangeable
> - Outside of that they seem to have supplied for professional and industrial settings (this is a plus)
> - Good cable management and layout, designed mainly for watercooling
> - Everything is easy to access and there are custom mounting systems for PSUs, radiators, and other accessories (ex: for water cooling, reservoirs for example)
> - Cases seem to come in different sizes from smaller cases to massive setups intended for 4 GPUs and 2P boards
> 
> To that end, they seem to be a good option for those with a large budget and who like to have a customized case for their needs. Quality is high, although they never designed for air cooling. This seems to be a case of "you get what you pay for", so to speak. The big issue I see with their cases is that they have designed for water cooling and that you need to order additional parts, which can get expensive.


That 3.5mm aluminum is key. I had not seen that bit of data before. Given that, they should be sturdy -- not flimsy. Good to know. +rep for the info.


----------



## CrazyElf

Edit:
Looking at their page, they may have changed some things. I know at one point they were making some parts out of 3.5mm aluminum. But now:

From their website: http://www.caselabs-store.com/all-aluminum-construction/
Quote:


> Our cases are manufactured using only heavy gauge all aluminum construction. Unlike some imports using thin .040'' (1mm) aluminum, our cases are made from .090" (2.3mm) for the frame and .063" (1.6mm) for the doors and exterior covers. The Mercury side covers are made from .050'' (1.3mm). This heavy gauge material creates a case that can stand up to the rigors of large scale water cooling and frequent system tear-downs. Aluminum is much lighter than steel, dissipates heat better, and is easier to mod.


My apologies on the error - my information seems to be out of date. Come to think of it, 3.5mm of aluminum all around may have been impractical perhaps for a consumer case. Too heavy. I do know that some industrial cases though are made of 3.5mm and Case Labs does supply some cases for industrial purpose. I will have to do more reading on this one.

Edit:
I do know that some of the Lian Li models (older ones especially used very thick aluminum). But the newer, cheaper ones don't seem to - in fact, they are quite flimsy (A75 and A76). It's not the same quality as the older Lian Li cases.

Cooler Master also at one point made the ACTS 840 and a full line of aluminum cases which were well built. Sadly, those have disappeared.


----------



## doyll

.060" is between 14 & 15 gauge.. closer to 15 gauge (0.057")

3.5mm is very thick for a case material.. 0.138".. between 7 gauge (.144") and 8 gauge (0.128") aluminum

Aluminum cross bed toolboxes for pickups are 0.60" diamond plate.


----------

