# [Build Log] - Project Nova - Custom designed 17.0L 5-slot mATX case



## Aibohphobia

*Nova*










*Intro*

Some of you are familiar with my thread over on [H], but for those that aren't, this project started because I kept running into the RAM limits of Mini-ITX on my NCase M1 build. I like to have 20-30 tabs open in both Firefox and Chrome, Photoshop open, SketchUp open, a render running in the background, some other random apps open, and maybe a VM thrown in for good measure. So 16GB of RAM just wasn't cutting it anymore.

Until Skylake and 16GB DDR4 sticks are available, 32GB isn't possible on Mini-ITX though. So I started looking at going back to microATX (what I had before I switched to the M1) but after getting used to the M1's small size and minimalist looks none of the mATX cases on the market appealed to me. The SG09/10 is fairly small but too ugly and everything else was just too big. So I started playing around in SketchUp using the M1 layout as a starting point and eventually came up with Nova (this is skipping a lot of stuff, for all the details check out the HardForum thread).

The design is finalized and Protocase of Canada is building the prototype, I'm hoping to have the case in my hands by the end of next week (Dec 5).

*Features*

H x W x D: 300 x 170 x 333mm, 17.0L
20 gauge (1.016mm) steel for panels/frame, aluminum for handle, everything powder coated
microATX
5 expansion slots
120/140mm rad support on hinged side bracket
SFX/SFX-L PSU
2 x 2.5" drives
1 x 3.5" drive (if no card in 5th slot)
Removable carry handle
Fans everywhere

*CAD model*




Sketchfab link: https://skfb.ly/BTDr
If you're not familiar, Sketchfab lets you view interactive 3D models in your browser.



Size comparison with the M1 and Prodigy


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## Aibohphobia

*The Build*

*Part Choice*

I'm going with a Haswell-E and SLI GTX 980s build. The original intention of the case was to just focus on the support for better CPUs and more RAM. That all changed when SilverStone released their 600W SFX PSU and rumors starting surfacing about the incredible efficiency of the new 900 series cards. I ended staying up until 2:00 in the morning to nab two reference model GTX 980s the minute they were available on Amazon (I felt kinda stupid afterward but I'm glad I did because they've gone up in price since). After extensive testing I verified that Haswell-E and SLI GTX 980s was possible off the 600W SFX (at least at stock clocks).

I originally hoped to be able to use the cheaper 5820K but the lane configuration seems hardwired. It can do x16 / x8 / x4 but x16 / x4 / x8 doesn't seem possible on any board. Luckily I found a local buyer for my chip and was able to upgrade to the 5930K. With the extra lanes I was able to move the second card to the bottom slot, leaving an empty slot between them for much better top card temps and fan RPMs.


Here's all the parts on a temporary test bench


I crammed everything inside some HP case to take to a LAN party last month

*Components:*


*Case:* Nova
*CPU:* Intel i7 5930K
*Cooler:* NZXT X41
*Mobo:* Gigabyte X99M Gaming 5
*RAM:* 32GB Crucial Ballistix Sport DDR4 2400 (4 x 8GB)
*GPU:* 2 x EVGA GTX 980 reference models in SLI
*PSU:* SilverStone SX600-G
*SSD:* Samsung 840 EVO 250GB

*Build Log:*

*12-17-2014* Production has started!

*12-30-2014* Case has arrived, first pics!

*01-01-2015* More pics and everything up and running

*01-31-2015* Test fitting 240mm rad on bottom
.


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## Aibohphobia

Reserved


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## 4RTEX

NICE! Is that expansion slots cover hinged?


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## Aibohphobia

Thanks!

The dust cover is just screwed to the frame. That's an interesting idea though.


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## WiSK

Subbed, natch


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## Elyminator

subbed


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## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiSK*
> 
> Subbed, natch


Hi WiSK! Glad to have you along for the ride, the SX500-LG should comfortably fit in the case now so I'll be giving it a good workout powering this rig once it's available.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elyminator*
> 
> subbed


Thanks!

My rep at Protocase said she'll try to take pics of the case during production so hopefully I'll have some cool photos to share next week.


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## veryrarium

How did I miss this thread for two days...subbed








Personally I found the following info you mentioned on [H] useful to know as it gives us an idea of how sturdy the case will be (Antec Solo series were 1mm thick) and you might want to include it in the opening post.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia on [H]*
> 
> I had modeled the design with 0.95mm thick sheet but since most of the cuts will be done with a water jet they're going with Galvanneal. Galvanneal has a protective anti-corrosion coating so it is slightly thicker than standard steel, 20 gauge cold rolled steel is 0.914mm (0.036in) while Galvanneal is 1.016mm (0.040in) which has subtly thrown off some stuff like the IO cutout relation to the mobo standoffs.


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## catbuster

Ye was checking your thread on H. Nice to see build log here


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## Jeffinslaw

I dig custom case builds! Will sub to this!

-Jeffinslaw


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## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *veryrarium*
> 
> How did I miss this thread for two days...subbed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Personally I found the following info you mentioned on [H] useful to know as it gives us an idea of how sturdy the case will be (Antec Solo series were 1mm thick) and you might want to include it in the opening post.


Thanks, I added a note in mm to make it more clear. I should of done that to start, the gauge system is a joke. Interestingly, I've been working primarily in metric but even though Protocase is in Canada, they seem to work primarily in Standard units









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catbuster*
> 
> Ye was checking your thread on H. Nice to see build log here


The [H] thread will still be my primary place to post stuff, it's already a meandering mess so I don't feel bad just posting whatever random stuff I want there. I'll try to keep this thread a little more organized.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffinslaw*
> 
> I dig custom case builds! Will sub to this!
> 
> -Jeffinslaw


Thanks! Looking forward to how your Compact Splash build turns out.

Still have lots of work to do here but I plan to tackle a larger water cooling optimized case at some point:


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## VGM10000

Subbed. How big is that last case you posted?


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## Aibohphobia

The production process is taking longer than I anticipated, it'll probably be sometime next week before I get the case.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VGM10000*
> 
> Subbed. How big is that last case you posted?


The mockup is 34.4L but the final design would probably be more like 37-38L if the size creep of Nova is anything to go by.


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## veryrarium

Bummer.


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## francisco9751

subbed


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## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *veryrarium*
> 
> Bummer.


It's been hard waiting but at least this gives me time to get the Gigabyte X99M Gaming 5 board in.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *francisco9751*
> 
> subbed


Thanks!


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## francisco9751

i want one


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## PlayfulPhoenix

Subbed, naturally







I cannot wait to see that motherboard in that case. And everything else, of course!


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## Aibohphobia

It's looking like I won't get the case until after Christmas, I did get the Gigabyte board today though and I'm liking it so far.


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## Jeffinslaw

Pictures of the board by its self? I'm thinking about getting that board.


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## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffinslaw*
> 
> Pictures of the board by its self? I'm thinking about getting that board.


Today's your lucky day: http://www.overclock.net/t/1529872/gigabyte-x99m-gaming-5-owners-thread


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## Jeffinslaw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Jeffinslaw*
> 
> Pictures of the board by its self? I'm thinking about getting that board.
> 
> 
> 
> Today's your lucky day: http://www.overclock.net/t/1529872/gigabyte-x99m-gaming-5-owners-thread
Click to expand...

Yep, I'm digging the board. Not too keen on the killer NIC but I doubt my internet is fast enough for me to tell a difference.

Thanks for the pictures!









-Jeffinslaw


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## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffinslaw*
> 
> Yep, I'm digging the board. Not too keen on the killer NIC but I doubt my internet is fast enough for me to tell a difference.
> 
> Thanks for the pictures!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Jeffinslaw


You're welcome.

Hopefully the Killer NIC is better these days, I'll have to take that Intel NIC out once one of the elusive PCIe NVMe SSDs is available.


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## Aibohphobia

Production has started!










Laser cutter in action


Don't think this is actually a part from Nova but it demonstrates how the flat pieces of metal from the previous step become the 3D shapes that makes sheet metal construction such a versatile process.

The operator positions the part and then the top die comes down, presses the part against the bottom die, and creates a bend.


Here's the back panel about to be powder coated


Here's the PSU bracket. You can see in this picture the clip used to ground the part. Powder coating works by spraying a fine mist of a positively charged powderized coating (hence the name) at the part. The powder sticks to the part and once it is evenly coated it is moved to an oven where it is cured.


Here's some of the parts out of the oven.

That's all for now, current estimated ship date is the 24th. Getting hard to wait now, it's so close


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## 4RTEX

Did you do all flattening yourself or did you supply the model to them and they sorted it? What tooling have they used for bending? Did you consult their tooling capabilities before design work?


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## Aibohphobia

I modeled the design in SketchUp and Protocase did all the engineering.

Here's a good comparison between what I sent and what they did:


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## PlayfulPhoenix

(I'm shamelessly repeating myself, but I don't even care. It's happening!)


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## 4RTEX

Good deal!


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## veryrarium

Getting excited!


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## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *veryrarium*
> 
> Getting excited!


Indeed







I believe Aiboh will be reaching out to Protocase tomorrow to get an update, but all indications so far are that they're on-schedule, so we should be seeing the prototype very soon!


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## Elyminator

so I was checking out this protocase site. It is super cool. If you don't mind could I ask you what kind of prices the quoted you?

edit.... nevermind I found quotes..... owch... I'll have to stick to my own skill set


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## Aibohphobia

$480 design/engineering services
$70 setup fee
$2048.52 manufacturing for one unit

Total: $2598.52

Yeah, not cheap but I wanted production-grade build quality rather than a hand made prototype.


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## Elyminator

wow thats double what I saw. Then again either way. I'm not knocking their service in any way shape or form. I really like what they do and so far things look great but yeah not in my budget


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## Bense

Subscribed! (I thought I was already)


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## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elyminator*
> 
> wow thats double what I saw. Then again either way. I'm not knocking their service in any way shape or form. I really like what they do and so far things look great but yeah not in my budget


I'll paraphrase what I mentioned on HF:

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yours truly on HardForum*
> 
> Protocase was chosen to manufacture Nova for two reasons: They were able to have engineers communicate and collaborate to a significant degree (with regards to the digital design and converting it to a usable format), and their turn-around time is very quick. But, they are able to do this because they use very expensive manufacturing processes that, while fast, don't scale and aren't cost-efficient, compared to traditional methods that use equipment which a manufacturer uses broadly. So, pre-existing punches for the vents instead of jet-cutting them, for example.
> 
> TLDR: The prototype is expensive but that's a consequence of the cost of design work and quick manufacture. You could make it for much less if you wanted to.


Can't say I know how low you could go in terms of getting a custom case manufactured... But especially if you stuck to a simple design, and did all the CAD work yourself, you could cut costs quite considerably.


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## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bense*
> 
> Subscribed! (I thought I was already)


Welcome!

I'm hoping for delivery Friday but I don't have a tracking number so I'll just have to wait and see


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## Aibohphobia

Took a little longer than I estimated but it's finally here!











Will take better pics tonight.


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## catbuster

Oh my


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## 4RTEX

out of the blue... 

Did you decide to ditch usb ports?


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## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4RTEX*
> 
> Did you decide to ditch usb ports?


For now, on the motherboard I'm using the second video card blocks off the front USB 3.0 headers so I just omitted them.


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## Aibohphobia

More pics!





I need a few parts I'll pick up in the morning and tomorrow evening I should have lots of pics of the case itself and also the X99/SLI 980 build up and running inside it.


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## Aibohphobia

Pics!





I'll pick up some zip ties and tidy up the cables today.


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## 4RTEX

Looking good! Just realized how small this case is with your setup inside. Can I ask why did you not utilize this hinged fan bracket? I'm curious to see how many Watts are you topping on this (in relation to that psu)


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## Aibohphobia

Yeah, the pics of the case by itself don't give a good reference for scale. It's hard to tell the size since the proportions are similar to full-size cases.

The side bracket is for 120mm/140mm water coolers. I already had the Noctua heatsink intalled to see if it could fit on the Gigabyte board (since it wouldn't on the EVGA X99) and I just left it on there. I'll be swapping back to the NZXT X41 later.

I tested a 5820K and SLI 980s at ~512W from the wall (AC), test setup and results here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1473730/cowcotland-silverstone-600-watt-gold-modular-sfx-psu-cebit-2014/140_20#post_22885211


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## m_jones_

Very nice case.


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## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *m_jones_*
> 
> Very nice case.


Thanks!

I tidied up the cables some and got the 2.5" bracket installed




detail shot showing the top fan and the power cord


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## francisco9751

wow nice case







no usb 3.0? D:
i want this case.


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## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *francisco9751*
> 
> wow nice case
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> no usb 3.0? D:
> i want this case.


Not to fear:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *francisco9751*
> 
> Did you decide to ditch usb ports?
> 
> 
> 
> For now, on the motherboard I'm using the second video card blocks off the front USB 3.0 headers so I just omitted them.
Click to expand...

For the first unit, the prototype, they weren't included for simplicity's sake, and since the graphics config Aiboh has blocks the USB headers anyway.


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## francisco9751

okey, TY


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## Aibohphobia

Got the NZXT X41 installed and the hinged bracket works like a charm:





Also got a shot of the backside showing how the CPU power is routed behind the motherboard tray:



Edit: forgot to upload them here, got a few shots of the handle being machined:


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## richie_2010

What a great case. Ive pondered for a long while about designing a custom case but get stuck just of the starting block








I dont know how to use cad/sketchup ect ect and finding time is like finding the start of a circle.


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## 4RTEX

Nice work! Fan set to pull. How do those temps look like?


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## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *richie_2010*
> 
> What a great case. Ive pondered for a long while about designing a custom case but get stuck just of the starting block
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dont know how to use cad/sketchup ect ect and finding time is like finding the start of a circle.


It's like learning anything, you just have to get your feet wet and slowly become proficient. SketchUp is easy to learn, you could probably pick up the basics over a free afternoon.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4RTEX*
> 
> Nice work! Fan set to pull. How do those temps look like?


I ran Aida64 for 8 minutes and it leveled off in the low 40s with the ambient temperature at 17.4°C.


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## ozlay

just an idea but maybe make the design reversible so that you can flip it upside down if you wanted to would just have to make top and bottom panel able to be flippable around and front panel flippable if not already i think it would be cool to have the video cards at the top of the case and psu at the bottom as an option


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## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ozlay*
> 
> just an idea but maybe make the design reversible so that you can flip it upside down if you wanted to would just have to make top and bottom panel able to be flippable around and front panel flippable if not already i think it would be cool to have the video cards at the top of the case and psu at the bottom as an option


That's hilarious, I actually proposed that idea in my original post over on [H] way back in April:



It wasn't practical with the current panel design but with the panel mounting design I have in mind for the next version it _may_ be possible to re-implement that idea but no promises.


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## nismoskyline

Very intelligent and intuitive design, I like it


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## Soul.

Nice! Good job on the build. I was always thinking about doing something custom like this, and I think seeing you get this done will motivate me off my lazy butt to do a mATX build as well. Love the design of it!

I had no idea that there were guys out there for custom cases like that, which is super cool. Looks awesome so far!


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## Dyaems

Is the rear and front fan using 80mm or 92mm fans? Very nice case by the way.


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## Woxys

92mm front and 80mm rear i think.


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## Dyaems

Thanks!


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## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyaems*
> 
> Is the rear and front fan using 80mm or 92mm fans? Very nice case by the way.


Thanks! The rear is 92mm and the front is 120mm.


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## Dyaems

Nice! I don't really visit [H] so I wouldn't know... I like the removal of usb 3.0 headers from the front though! I also would like ATX PSU support but basing it on the prototype, I don't see that coming.

EDIT: Oh I saw this thread on [H] while I was lurking there xD


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## ryanallan

Really great build!

Can I ask how you went about getting the measurements correct? Was there a universal uATX template?

I.e. where to place standoffs for the motherboard, or where to cut out the pcie slots?


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## armourcore9brker

Formfactors.org is great for all sorts of specifications. Link

Direct link to the mATX specifications you're asking for.


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## PlayfulPhoenix

Hey everyone, a quick update and appeal for your thoughts: Aiboh is continuing to do testing on the case, but a topic that's come up on other forums (and has been of particular interest to us more recently) is that of possibly supporting dual 3.5" hard drives via a simple bracket/cage, which would be mounted to the bottom of Nova in the front or back of the case.

Since we don't want to chase after features that nobody is interested in, Aiboh made a straw poll to collect feedback from the community with regards to what configuration people would want if they had Nova: No HDD (retaining all five PCI slots), 1 HDD (retaining the motherboard's four PCI slots), or 2 HDD (retaining the motherboard's top three PCI slots). You can see the results of the straw poll, and toss your own opinion in, here: http://strawpoll.me/3313664

For the sake of experimentation and illustration, Aiboh used the NCASE M1's hard drive cage to see what a 2 HDD configuration could look like:



We'll also eventually explore the effect on thermal performance with the drives in place, if the feature has enough interest.


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## ryanallan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *armourcore9brker*
> 
> Formfactors.org is great for all sorts of specifications. Link
> 
> Direct link to the mATX specifications you're asking for.


Great link. thanks.

I wonder if there are open source CAD drawings for a back plate.
I just cant imagine having to draw up an entire case only having some basic measurements of the motherboards dimensions.


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## ryanallan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PlayfulPhoenix*
> 
> Hey everyone, a quick update and appeal for your thoughts: Aiboh is continuing to do testing on the case, but a topic that's come up on other forums (and has been of particular interest to us more recently) is that of possibly supporting dual 3.5" hard drives via a simple bracket/cage, which would be mounted to the bottom of Nova in the front or back of the case.
> 
> Since we don't want to chase after features that nobody is interested in, Aiboh made a straw poll to collect feedback from the community with regards to what configuration people would want if they had Nova: No HDD (retaining all five PCI slots), 1 HDD (retaining the motherboard's four PCI slots), or 2 HDD (retaining the motherboard's top three PCI slots). You can see the results of the straw poll, and toss your own opinion in, here: http://strawpoll.me/3313664
> 
> For the sake of experimentation and illustration, Aiboh used the NCASE M1's hard drive cage to see what a 2 HDD configuration could look like:
> 
> 
> 
> We'll also eventually explore the effect on thermal performance with the drives in place, if the feature has enough interest.


Personally, I don't use HDD's in my desktops any more.
One SSD is all I need.
I use the NAS for extra storage if I need it.
I wouldn't buy an ITX / uATX case if i wanted to cram TB's of storage into it.


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## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ryanallan*
> 
> I wonder if there are open source CAD drawings for a back plate.
> I just cant imagine having to draw up an entire case only having some basic measurements of the motherboards dimensions.


I used this SketchUp model extensively for designing the prototype so I can vouch for its accuracy: http://scc.jezmckean.com/item/509

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ryanallan*
> 
> Personally, I don't use HDD's in my desktops any more.
> One SSD is all I need.
> I use the NAS for extra storage if I need it.
> I wouldn't buy an ITX / uATX case if i wanted to cram TB's of storage into it.


I'm with you, large SSD for primary and external drives for the stuff I only need occasional access to.

Vote has been pretty much evenly split since I made it though so there's still quite a few spinning platter aficionados.


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## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> Vote has been pretty much evenly split since I made it though so there's still quite a few spinning platter aficionados.


"Evenly split" isn't an exaggeration at all: I would have never thought that people were so evenly distributed!



For those who would want to use two drives - can I ask what your use cases are? Would you be bringing in older drives or hardware, or do you need many terabytes of readily-accessed storage space for certain things? Perhaps something else that i'm not thinking of?


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## texruska

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PlayfulPhoenix*
> 
> For those who would want to use two drives - can I ask what your use cases are? Would you be bringing in older drives or hardware, or do you need many terabytes of readily-accessed storage space for certain things? Perhaps something else that i'm not thinking of?


I'm using a Node 304 atm and have a large HDD + a small SSD, which seems quite a common compromise in this tiny case.


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## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *texruska*
> 
> I'm using a Node 304 atm and have a large HDD + a small SSD, which seems quite a common compromise in this tiny case.


Oh, certainly - and that's one of the reasons the fifth expansion slot is so useful, since someone can place a 3.5" drive on the bottom, yet still use all the slots on the motherboard. I'd just like to know what people would intend to do with two 3.5" HDDs - that's potentially 12+ TB of storage space!


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## 2002dunx

Firstly, loving the thread, and the design.
It is interesting what people want from such a design.... My MITX system was supposed to become a file server till some fool bought an Impact VI and an i7....









People keep gear till it dies, I have four 1 TB WD caviar blacks, bought for their five year warranty.... all alive and well, in RAID 10.
Mine are sat in a HTPC, an old school large black box along side my hi-fi gear... under the TV.

dunx

P.S. Yes 6TB drives are out there at £200 each !


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## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2002dunx*
> 
> Yes 6TB drives are out there at £200 each !


6TB drives are indeed expensive, but the right question to ask is if they are more expensive than multiple smaller drives that add up to the same capacity. And, of course, if that difference is so large that it matters.

To illustrate: Below is the cost per TB of WD's Green drives, at capacities from 1-6TB:



The cost per TB across 2-6TB is, at most, $6.67 different, which isn't much. The marginal cost per additional gigabyte does proportionately increase a fair amount at 5TB, but if you look at combinations of drives to reach 5 or 6TB, you're only saving, at most, $40, while doubling the risk of data loss by drive failure.

This is just one of many drives, and enthusiast/performance-oriented offerings will skew towards being more expensive. Plus, these are US-only prices. But if someone in my position wants a lot of storage, at least, they will probably buy the highest-capacity drives they can, rather than live with more lower-capacity ones. The small cost savings of bundling smaller drives is outweighed by the increased complexity and risk of failure.

...More specifically regarding Nova, though, and ignoring what can be stored in the 2.5" and PCI/M.2 form factors, this would also suggest that the people who would want two drives would be those who want more than 6TB of storage.

For those of you that voted that way, is that true?


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## Aibohphobia

Any suggestions on water cooling parts I should get to test fit?

240mm rads on the bottom seem like a obvious choice, maybe the H220/Glacer 240L?

What about other 240mm rads? Preferably something not too expensive but that is popular for full loops.

Also, those of you wanting to run a custom loop in Nova, would you just go with something like the H220 with the integrated pump or would some of you like to fit in a discrete pump and reservoir?

Speaking of reservoirs, I've considered adding tubing holes under the 92mm fan and I could match it up to the M1 so that the FrozenQ M1 reservoir would fit on Nova as well.

Any other water cooling input would be appreciated. I'm still primarily designing for air and AIO but if it's just a matter of shifting the mounting holes slightly I'll do that to better accommodate a custom loop.

Edit: here's a mockup with thin fans and the Alphacool ST30 on the bottom


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## BabylonDown

You shouldnt have a problem fittings a pump/res combo in the rear fan bracket. That would at least fit a DDC + res easily.


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## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BabylonDown*
> 
> You shouldnt have a problem fittings a pump/res combo in the rear fan bracket. That would at least fit a DDC + res easily.


Ooh, I hadn't even thought of that! That's an interesting idea.

If you wanted to keep everything contained within the case, it would probably conflict with a radiator and fan(s) on the side bracket, though. But if you mounted it externally, you'd have quite a lot of cooling, with the reservoir mounted ideally and accessibly.


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## BabylonDown

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PlayfulPhoenix*
> 
> Ooh, I hadn't even thought of that! That's an interesting idea.
> 
> If you wanted to keep everything contained within the case, it would probably conflict with a radiator and fan(s) on the side bracket, though. But if you mounted it externally, you'd have quite a lot of cooling, with the reservoir mounted ideally and accessibly.


Ya, but in my opinion, defeats the purpose of having such a compact case.

I never understood buying small cases to watercool and then mounting watercooling components externally, increasing the overall size of the case.


----------



## Dyaems

Just noticed on the info page that the Nova has ~144mm of CPU height clearance with the bracket removed, and I read on [H] that GPU height clearance is 149mm, why there is a difference in height? Just wondering.


----------



## Aibohphobia

There's some ambiguity in how each of those is measured.

CPU height I'm basing off the top of a socket 2011 CPU to the side panel and GPU I'm basing off there being 9mm more clearance between the PCI bracket and the side panel compared to the M1 (which has ~140mm GPU height).


----------



## Aibohphobia

Got a good deal on a used Asus Direct Cu II GTX 780 so here it is installed:




The heatpipe sticks out over the frame but there's still 3-4mm to the side panel.

So if Asus is measuring the same way everyone else is that means my 149mm estimation is about right because they list this card as 147.3mm tall.

I played a round of BF4 like this and noticed the PSU fan was working harder than before though, it was intaking hot exhaust from the card the the hole where the front fan goes so I managed to fit the fan in by maneuvering it in from the front, barely fits but it does


----------



## ryanallan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> Any suggestions on water cooling parts I should get to test fit?
> 
> 240mm rads on the bottom seem like a obvious choice, maybe the H220/Glacer 240L?
> 
> What about other 240mm rads? Preferably something not too expensive but that is popular for full loops.
> 
> Also, those of you wanting to run a custom loop in Nova, would you just go with something like the H220 with the integrated pump or would some of you like to fit in a discrete pump and reservoir?
> 
> Speaking of reservoirs, I've considered adding tubing holes under the 92mm fan and I could match it up to the M1 so that the FrozenQ M1 reservoir would fit on Nova as well.
> 
> Any other water cooling input would be appreciated. I'm still primarily designing for air and AIO but if it's just a matter of shifting the mounting holes slightly I'll do that to better accommodate a custom loop.
> 
> Edit: here's a mockup with thin fans and the Alphacool ST30 on the bottom


Just thinking out loud. The rad placement isn't ideal. Hot air will be directed at the gpu, and would fill the case in much the same way the dc2 780 did. Maybe you mount the fans on top and have them blow down. Or, how about increasing the height a bit, tilting the rad on a 45 degree angle and using one 92mm fan to blow front to back?

Here's a shot of a typical intercooler mount:


----------



## WiSK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ryanallan*
> 
> Just thinking out loud. The rad placement isn't ideal. Hot air will be directed at the gpu,


Although obviously air passing through a radiator becomes warmer, it's not "hot". In the chart below you can see only 7-9C delta for air in / air out.



Although a 240 rad for a CPU and 2xGPU would normally be considered on the meagre side, the GPUs are still going to run a lot cooler than stock air. The CPU might struggle however: The small surface area of the die has trouble transferring its heat when coolant temperature is higher. My experience in watercooling an internally 11 litre case with a single 120 rad opened my eyes to this. All the heat from the rad blew through the whole case. 170W GPU easily under 50C, 77W CPU always climbing towards 70C with only a mild overclock.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ryanallan*
> 
> Just thinking out loud. The rad placement isn't ideal. Hot air will be directed at the gpu, and would fill the case in much the same way the dc2 780 did. Maybe you mount the fans on top and have them blow down. Or, how about increasing the height a bit, tilting the rad on a 45 degree angle and using one 92mm fan to blow front to back?


Building a custom loop in Nova isn't ideal due to the space constraints so I'm not going to make major changes for it. However, if it's just a matter of shifting the fan mounting holes here or there a few mm I'll do that for those willing to go to the trouble.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiSK*
> 
> Although a 240 rad for a CPU and 2xGPU would normally be considered on the meagre side, the GPUs are still going to run a lot cooler than stock air. The CPU might struggle however: The small surface area of the die has trouble transferring its heat when coolant temperature is higher. My experience in watercooling an internally 11 litre case with a single 120 rad opened my eyes to this. All the heat from the rad blew through the whole case. 170W GPU easily under 50C, 77W CPU always climbing towards 70C with only a mild overclock.


So would you think it'd be worthwhile to run two loops? 140mm on the side bracket for the CPU using an integrated pump/block and 240mm rad on bottom for the GPU?

Or maybe even the other way around if there's room for tubing, side 140mm for the GPUs and bottom 240mm for the CPU?


----------



## WiSK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> So would you think it'd be worthwhile to run two loops? 140mm on the side bracket for the CPU using an integrated pump/block and 240mm rad on bottom for the GPU?
> Or maybe even the other way around if there's room for tubing, side 140mm for the GPUs and bottom 240mm for the CPU?


If you specifically want the CPU to be as cool as possible, then it's an idea to have two loops. But where are you going to put the second pump and res?

In principle 240+140 is plenty for a single loop, and just accept that CPU temps will be high when the GPUs are running.

Another option is to have an external radiator for use when at home. External fans can be powered by USB, and the tubes can enter the case with quick-disconnect bulkhead style fittings. Then when you go traveling, you drop your overclock on the CPU a bit.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ryanallan*
> 
> Just thinking out loud. The rad placement isn't ideal.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> Building a custom loop in Nova isn't ideal due to the space constraints so I'm not going to make major changes for it.


I'll qualify Aiboh's point just a tad - if you're looking for a custom loop where every part of it (blocks, radiators, reservoir and pump) is discrete, that's just not something Nova is intended to support. Significant concessions (especially in volume) to enable that sort of thing simply aren't worthwhile, and as such it makes no sense to design towards them.

That said, there is pretty good flexibility for custom loops that integrate either the pump or the reservoir, or both. Expandable AIO's like Cooler Master's Glacer 240L come to mind in particular, since the pump is in the CPU block and the reservoir in the radiator, but you can buy parts and build a similar thing yourself (Swiftech's Apogee Drive II and MCRX20-QP). You can alternatively mount the reservoir on the back of Nova, externally (we're actually thinking of matching the WC cutouts on the NCASE M1 so that the low-profile FrozenQ reservoir intended for the M1 can also be used with Nova). Or, perhaps, you can use a radiator with an integrated pump and/or reservoir (though the ones we thought of were a tight fit at best), mounted on the side bracket. Or maybe an external radiator, as WISK mentions... Essentially, there are a list of reasonable ways you could go about it. Which, for what Nova is, is pretty great









I personally am really interested to see the feasibility of a fully water-cooled setup, since I think the additional height afforded by mATX makes it pretty accessible and achievable, if not tight. A thin 240mm radiator on the bottom, and a regular 140mm radiator on the side, is enough to cool whatever you might put in the case, and all you lose is the bottom PCI slot on the motherboard. I'd bet that lots of people would happily make that compromise.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Big thanks to PlayfulPhoenix for getting me some rads to test fit.

Here's the Alphacool ST30. Fits great, no clearance issues in any direction, the side panel tabs barely clear the rad but they do.



I forgot to bring my calipers to measure and I don't have a card to test fit but it should clear a single slot card in the 3rd slot.

The Swiftech MCR220-QP-RES-R2 on the other hand doesn't fit quite so nicely.



It's canted because I left the caps in the ports on the bottom front.



There's not enough room between the rad and the frame for the side panel tabs to clear but it's already too close to the motherboard, I had to unplug the power button header to get the rad in (and I've already filed down the plastic housings on the front panel headers so the video card doesn't press down on them so hard).


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Cross-posting from HF since I'd love input from you all, too:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yours Truly on HardForum*
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *xinux*
> I would love to have the same color scheme as the prototype.
> 
> 
> 
> This brings up an interesting question, actually - what colors for what parts of Nova would you guys want, given total choice?
> 
> (What we'd actually be able to make would depend on available colors, MOQ, demand, and so forth, but I really just want to know what everyone's favorite color(s) or style would be
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
Click to expand...


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quick update: Aiboh has completed most of the testing we set out to have done, and we're consequently beginning to look at the results and conduct some analysis! As a total statistics and data nerd, I'm more than a little excited about this









Here's a taste of the information we're working with (in this case, a screenshot of a comparison I'm doing across configs that do/don't have a top fan):



As we learn from all of this data, we'll share updates with you guys, and get your input. I'll also be writing an in-depth piece on our blog, with regards to how we're leveraging this testing to improve Nova's design.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Hey all, Aiboh wrote about Nova on the buildapc subreddit, and I think his post acts as a really great summary of the story of Nova, and of everything that's transpired on the forums. It's a fun read, chock-full of photos and nice anecdotal details that can easily get lost. Certainly worth a perusal for anyone that's been following the work on Nova, I think


----------



## Aibohphobia

Preliminary analysis of the thermal testing has been done and it appears the top fan is actually not that helpful, it only makes a few degrees difference in CPU and PSU exhaust temp at most. There are possibly a few configurations where it would make sense but I think those are edge cases.

So if we eliminate it we could shave a bit of space off the top of the case and redistribute it at the bottom and to the width for better 3.5" HDD and 240mm radiator clearance without increasing the overall volume.


----------



## catbuster

I dont like handle







but it might be usefull if u carry case a lot


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtd871*
> 
> Could you buy handles in bulk? A quick search turned these up:
> http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g44/c12/s33/list/p1/DIYMod_Parts-Misc_Case_Parts-Handles-Page1.html


Possibly. The way Aiboh worded the question is essentially helping us understand how many (and how much) people value having the handle.

There are things we could do, for example, to build in the structural support a handle needs, but then sell the actual handle separately (or rely on third party ones). But that would add cost to everyone, even those who don't want a handle at all. And, of course, including the handle as a standard part of the case could raise the price considerably - you linked to handles that are similar in composition to ours, and cost nearly $50. Our own cost to include the handle would probably be near that ballpark.

So it's all about finding the right balance, that provides the greatest benefit to everyone. Hence, why we use polls from time to time!


----------



## Gabrielzm

Very interesting case. I agree the top fan can be drop from the project and gain some space. Which lead me to my question. Would it be enough space on the top to create a custom acrylic reservoir there for a loop?


----------



## MP-Canuck

Very Interesting. This could be the case for a potential future build. Definite sub.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gabrielzm*
> 
> Very interesting case. I agree the top fan can be drop from the project and gain some space. Which lead me to my question. Would it be enough space on the top to create a custom acrylic reservoir there for a loop?


Probably not if you're going to put a rad on the side bracket. I am planning to add tube routing holes below the rear 92mm fan so that the FrozenQ M1 reservoir is compatible though.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quick update, all: I've just finished a post on the KI blog, summarizing some of the thermal testing and analysis Aiboh and I have been working on for the past month or so. I invite you all to navigate to the site and read up!

In addition, and perhaps more importantly, we've opened up our entire testing & analysis workbook to the public, and will continue to work inside that living document, so that any updates or new data are instantly shared and viewable for everyone. You can drop in on that document anytime by navigating here.

Currently, we're looking at possible design changes to Nova that leverage the new information we've been learning throughout this process. I'm very excited to see where that takes us, so stay tuned for future updates to that end


----------



## Gabrielzm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PlayfulPhoenix*
> 
> Quick update, all: I've just finished a post on the KI blog, summarizing some of the thermal testing and analysis Aiboh and I have been working on for the past month or so. I invite you all to navigate to the site and read up!
> 
> In addition, and perhaps more importantly, we've opened up our entire testing & analysis workbook to the public, and will continue to work inside that living document, so that any updates or new data are instantly shared and viewable for everyone. You can drop in on that document anytime by navigating here.
> 
> Currently, we're looking at possible design changes to Nova that leverage the new information we've been learning throughout this process. I'm very excited to see where that takes us, so stay tuned for future updates to that end


Nice idea to share the spreadsheet. I am blow away by configs 18 x 17 and 14 x 15 and 16. Clearly the top fan does not improve much...Have you guys tried the top and rear fan as intake as well as the front one? Exhaust would be accomplished by bottom fan or psu or passively thought the case holes and gaps.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gabrielzm*
> 
> Nice idea to share the spreadsheet. I am blow away by configs 18 x 17 and 14 x 15 and 16. Clearly the top fan does not improve much...Have you guys tried the top and rear fan as intake as well as the front one? Exhaust would be accomplished by bottom fan or psu or passively thought the case holes and gaps.


Second from the right under Misc EA is a test with the bottom fans as intake, the top and rear fans turned off, and the fan attached to the X41 as intake (config 16) and exhaust (config 24).

Config 24 would probably benefit from the top and rear as intake but even without them it still kept the CPU at a reasonable temperature even though the intake was all the hot air from the GPU.

I'm designing primarily for the bottom, front, and side as intake because those are the easiest to put dust filters on.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Cool news today: Aiboh shared his Nova build

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/2vvfvl/nova_5930k_and_sli_gtx_980s_in_a_custom_17l_case/
 a day or so ago, and his computer has been selected as the build of the week!


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Cross-posting this from HF to get thoughts and opinions from everyone here:
Quote:


> What do you think: Do you prefer traditional sliding hooks on case panels, or clip-and-peg style mounting points, like those on the Phanteks Enthoo EVOLV, NCASE M1, or many of Lian Li's high-end cases?
> 
> Vote Here!


There's been some discussion on people's preference between the more common sliding hook design, and the peg-and-clip ones used by certain cases. There are pros and cons for each design, but I'm just curious as to what everyone's preferences are when quantified.


----------



## 4RTEX

I wouldn't mind seeing where to get those peg and clip things actually. Any chance for a link?


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4RTEX*
> 
> I wouldn't mind seeing where to get those peg and clip things actually. Any chance for a link?


That's the issue, the only place I've seen them is on Lian Li cases. So we would have to go with them for that to work.


----------



## subtec

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> That's the issue, the only place I've seen them is on Lian Li cases. So we would have to go with them for that to work.


Besides Phanteks (mentioned in the poll), Jonsbo also uses them on some models. Bitfenix uses something similar on the Pandora, but instead of clips it has holes punched directly through the frame that the pegs mate to.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *subtec*
> 
> Besides Phanteks (mentioned in the poll), Jonsbo also uses them on some models. Bitfenix uses something similar on the Pandora, but instead of clips it has holes punched directly through the frame that the pegs mate to.


Duh, you're right, them too. Though only Lian Li does low volume OEM production. I've looked for something similar available to general sheet metal shops, it seems like something Penn Engineering would do, but I haven't found any.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Was just informed about this masterpiece - looks amazing!
> +1 on this - any ideas
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> EDIT:
> Hopefully we can see something mid-2015. Looks to me an amazing well-thought design


Needless to say, we're just as anxious to get this project done







But we want to do it right, which takes some time.

Anyway, if anyone has yet to vote in the hooks vs, pins-and-clips poll I posted a few days ago, please do so! We're always keen to get everyone's input:
Quote:


> What do you think: Do you prefer traditional sliding hooks on case panels, or clip-and-peg style mounting points, like those on the Phanteks Enthoo EVOLV, NCASE M1, or many of Lian Li's high-end cases?
> 
> Vote Here!


----------



## Aibohphobia

Small status update

TL;DR: Finally got a mostly silent build working

I've been working on a silent build in Nova but it's been more difficult than I thought due to the GPU fan controls. I tried messing around with modding the BIOS on this Asus GTX 780 but I couldn't get it to operate semi-passively no matter what I did. So I ordered a 5-pin adapter so I could remove the shroud and stock fans and cool the card using two 120mm fans on the bottom of the case.

But in the process of unplugging the stock fan connector I accidentally broke one the wires









Bummer, but at least I can power the 120s right? Turns out this adapter is not actually wired correctly for this card so I had to rearrange the pins and use another splitter to get it working.

So now I got both fans running with PWM control off the GPU, should've been easy sailing from here but nope, this GPU has a hardwired 1100 RPM minimum, not PWM % minimum, but RPM minimum.

I did all this to avoid relying on the motherboard headers for the GPU but I didn't really have a choice now, so luckily the newest version of SpeedFan can control the bottom two chassis headers on this X99M Gaming 5 and now it idles at 600 RPM.

I'm still tweaking the curve, I'd prefer 900 RPM at max but that's not enough to keep the card from throttling in BF4 so I had to bump it up to 1100 RPM.

Too bad the 970s have coil whine problems, I had the opportunity at work to trade my 780 for a 970+cash but both the EVGA ACX and Asus Strix I was looking at whined under load so that's how I got started on this plan.

Anway, here's the current setup:










Also, in the process of testing the 780 I discovered that the SX500-LG wasn't quite as robust in the semi-passive department as I thought. The rig shut down while running FurMark and Prime and when I started inspecting the system I realized the PSU was pretty hot. So I took the front panel off, turned it back on, and pointed a heat gun at the PSU intake and within 15 seconds it shut off again.

Then I realized that the fan wire was sticking up into the fan, oops. Probably shortened its lifespan a bit but at least I know the overtemp protection works









Also got the Demciflex filters in, I should have time to test them this weekend to see what effect they have on airflow.


----------



## Jeffinslaw

Glad you got all the problems figured out! It's looking good so far.

-Jeffinslaw


----------



## kierwest

I love this case but I have my doubts about ventilation. I saw tests on hardforum and heat tends to sit in the video card area. It pretty much turns into a cheech and chong hotbox.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> Small status update
> 
> TL;DR: Finally got a mostly silent build working
> 
> I've been working on a silent build in Nova but it's been more difficult than I thought due to the GPU fan controls. I tried messing around with modding the BIOS on this Asus GTX 780 but I couldn't get it to operate semi-passively no matter what I did. So I ordered a 5-pin adapter so I could remove the shroud and stock fans and cool the card using two 120mm fans on the bottom of the case.
> 
> But in the process of unplugging the stock fan connector I accidentally broke one the wires
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bummer, but at least I can power the 120s right? Turns out this adapter is not actually wired correctly for this card so I had to rearrange the pins and use another splitter to get it working.
> 
> So now I got both fans running with PWM control off the GPU, should've been easy sailing from here but nope, this GPU has a hardwired 1100 RPM minimum, not PWM % minimum, but RPM minimum.
> 
> I did all this to avoid relying on the motherboard headers for the GPU but I didn't really have a choice now, so luckily the newest version of SpeedFan can control the bottom two chassis headers on this X99M Gaming 5 and now it idles at 600 RPM.
> 
> I'm still tweaking the curve, I'd prefer 900 RPM at max but that's not enough to keep the card from throttling in BF4 so I had to bump it up to 1100 RPM.
> 
> Too bad the 970s have coil whine problems, I had the opportunity at work to trade my 780 for a 970+cash but both the EVGA ACX and Asus Strix I was looking at whined under load so that's how I got started on this plan.
> 
> Anway, here's the current setup:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, in the process of testing the 780 I discovered that the SX500-LG wasn't quite as robust in the semi-passive department as I thought. The rig shut down while running FurMark and Prime and when I started inspecting the system I realized the PSU was pretty hot. So I took the front panel off, turned it back on, and pointed a heat gun at the PSU intake and within 15 seconds it shut off again.
> 
> Then I realized that the fan wire was sticking up into the fan, oops. Probably shortened its lifespan a bit but at least I know the overtemp protection works
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also got the Demciflex filters in, I should have time to test them this weekend to see what effect they have on airflow.


Man that is SO beautiful
I would really really want to get a build like that!


----------



## jtd871

Aibo:

I've seen others have claimed to use Nvidia Inspector to lower the max framerate in the drivers and drastically reduce the coil whine. Your setup may be too potent for what you're throwing at it.


----------



## Dyaems

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Man that is SO beautiful
> I would really really want to get a build like that!


Is it wrong for me to mention the case to you before?


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kierwest*
> 
> I love this case but I have my doubts about ventilation. I saw tests on hardforum and heat tends to sit in the video card area. It pretty much turns into a cheech and chong hotbox.


Any "zoning" of heat in the case is pretty minimal, actually - the GPU just tends to be the hottest-running component, and the largest source of heat/energy. But this is a non-issue with reference graphics (which expel heat out the back), and can be addressed pretty easily for non-reference graphics with either bottom-mounted or front-mounted fan(s).

For reference, all of the results of our thermal performance are available here, and you can see how certain components, configurations, or fan locations affect GPU (and other) temperatures.

Although you do see that case temperatures go up a fair bit with non-reference graphics, this is basically inevitable, and the relative increase is actually pretty good, given Nova's size. Since SFX limits you to 600W currently, we know now that pretty much any build that will run inside Nova can be cooled adequately.


----------



## kierwest

I would avoid using any AMD cards in this build...


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyaems*
> 
> Is it wrong for me to mention the case to you before?


Best recommendation evaaaaaaaaaaaar








It's so beautiful, looks well built and fits all the right things in the right places - I would really want to get it now though!


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jtd871*
> 
> I've seen others have claimed to use Nvidia Inspector to lower the max framerate in the drivers and drastically reduce the coil whine. Your setup may be too potent for what you're throwing at it.


I suppose, but my 780 doesn't really whine at all and the 980s only whine a tiny bit while both 970s I checked whined horrendously.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kierwest*
> 
> I would avoid using any AMD cards in this build...


A single card would be fine, plenty of people with 290Xs in the M1, dual top-end cards is out of the question due to power constraints though.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> It's so beautiful, looks well built and fits all the right things in the right places - I would really want to get it now though!


Thanks!


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> I suppose, but my 780 doesn't really whine at all and the 980s only whine a tiny bit while both 970s I checked whined horrendously.
> A single card would be fine, plenty of people with 290Xs in the M1, dual top-end cards is out of the question due to power constraints though.
> Thanks!


Btw - the PSU - is a full sized PSU?
And is it it forward firing?


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Btw - the PSU - is a full sized PSU?
> And is it it forward firing?


No, Nova fits either SFX or SFX-L only.

It's designed to face forward and intake from the vent in the front panel but I guess you could have it facing inward if you don't need the SSD bracket.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> No, Nova fits either SFX or SFX-L only.
> 
> It's designed to face forward and intake from the vent in the front panel but I guess you could have it facing inward if you don't need the SSD bracket.


Got it!


----------



## Aibohphobia

Ok, got the filters fitted:



















Did some informal testing in BF4 and it seems to have a very noticeable effect on temps, CPU was about 6-7C higher and GPU was 13-14C higher (80 compared to 94) at about 18C ambient.


----------



## 4RTEX

Try putting those fans back on gpu and possibly replace bottom nocuta fans with something slimmer. Not many would try removing fans from gpu in reality.

I would like to see those temps with filters when using sli.


----------



## Dyaems

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Best recommendation evaaaaaaaaaaaar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's so beautiful, looks well built and fits all the right things in the right places - I would really want to get it now though!


I know right! Maaaybe except for the PSU for me still, because no one sells SFX-L PSUs and SFX PSUs are rare here in our country, and I don't feel like feeding my stuff through a 450w PSU but I'm pretty sure it can handle it without problems.

One day I'm going buy one of these beauties if I want to go back to SFF cases, troubleshooting these SFF cases is really a pain to do and it seems I'm always getting some part to fail whenever I upgrade for some reason...


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyaems*
> 
> I know right! Maaaybe except for the PSU for me still, because no one sells SFX-L PSUs and SFX PSUs are rare here in our country, and I don't feel like feeding my stuff through a 450w PSU but I'm pretty sure it can handle it without problems.
> 
> One day I'm going buy one of these beauties if I want to go back to SFF cases, troubleshooting these SFF cases is really a pain to do and it seems I'm always getting some part to fail whenever I upgrade for some reason...


hmm true


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyaems*
> 
> I know right! Maaaybe except for the PSU for me still, because no one sells SFX-L PSUs and SFX PSUs are rare here in our country, and I don't feel like feeding my stuff through a 450w PSU but I'm pretty sure it can handle it without problems.


450W is enough to handle any configuration (that I can think of, at least) that uses one GPU. For two, you'll want the room a 600W unit provides, and that should support basically any dual-GPU configuration short of the hungriest of cards (dual R9 295Xs, for example) paired with the hungriest of CPUs.

I completely agree that availability of SFX (and SFX-L in particular) is meager compared to standard ATX power supplies, but the reason we went with SFX-only is two-fold. To start, the space savings is simply immense (which the below image should demonstrate well enough) - with good quality 600W modular SFX power supplies on the market, only a combination of the hungriest of all components can approach the energy limits imposed by it. For SFF, it makes little sense to dramatically change the size and arrangement of components in Nova, just to address extreme edge cases like 3-way graphics solutions. Going with SFX is clearly the right compromise to make.



The second, more philosophical/hopeful/pie-in-the-sky reason is that we think that SFX/SFX-L is the form factor of the future. With up to 600W already supported by the former, and 120mm fan support alongside higher theoretical power delivery offered by the latter, it makes for a better PSU than the bloated, antiquated ATX spec, which eats up considerable space, and takes attention away from the primary components of the case. Further, the power supplies offered by Silverstone demonstrate that good build quality, modularity, and even semi-fanless operation are all possible within the smaller footprint.

Cases in general are trending towards smaller volumes, and just as microATX and ITX make motherboards fit within those constraints, SFX does the same for power supplies. If we can stoke demand in the market for higher-wattage, high-performance SFX power supplies, by selling Nova, then hey - maybe we can help to eradicate the remaining barriers that prevent it from being a viable and superior alternative to ATX for certain system builders. Which would be a great side effect of a growing presence of powerful-yet-small enclosures, such as Nova.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4RTEX*
> 
> Try putting those fans back on gpu and possibly replace bottom nocuta fans with something slimmer. Not many would try removing fans from gpu in reality.
> 
> I would like to see those temps with filters when using sli.


I removed the stocks fans due to overly high minimum RPM not because of clearance issues. The card fits in that lower slot with the stock shroud and fans with 25mm fans on the bottom, though due to card sag the forward GPU fan touches the Noctua slightly unless I put tension on the card through the power wires.

I plan to test the SLI 980s with the filters at some point.


----------



## Aibohphobia

To be clear, the following is *NOT* a promise of ATX PSU support, it's just a possibility we're exploring.

The idea is to put the PSU over the motherboard where the side bracket is now. There are two ways to do this, each with pros and cons.

The first (which I'll be testing since it doesn't involve hacking up the prototype) is to have a bracket to mount the PSU to the side bracket. It's simple, doesn't involve any major modifications to the case, and you can unplug the modular connectors and swing the PSU out of the way to get easy access to the mobo. But it's questionable if the bracket will be strong enough, how practical it is to swing the PSU out, and we're not sure if we can get the internal cable in 16awg.









Here's what I've come up with, shown with a 160mm deep ATX PSU.

The other option would be to cut out the frame rear and have swappable plates for either the PSU or rear 92mm/AC inlet/water cooling holes. That allows for more space in front of the PSU and avoids the issue with the power cord gauge but it'll be more difficult to work inside the case and I'm concerned that cutting out such a large section of the frame will weaken it too much.

Either way we would add a second 120mm mount above the front 120mm to possibly allow a front 240mm rad if the video card is short enough or for a 120mm rad for the CPU.

Thoughts?


----------



## 4RTEX

PSU mounted to the back saves you the hassle of using power extensions and all that top/right angled plug business.

Edit:
The biggest downside (which I experienced in my modded Hadron) is that airflow is seriously compromised that way, but your fan is facing motherboard which probably would help a lot.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4RTEX*
> 
> The biggest downside (which I experienced in my modded Hadron) is that airflow is seriously compromised that way, but your fan is facing motherboard which probably would help a lot.


Do you mean from the location/position of the power supply, or from a certain way it could be mounted (directly on the back, or on the side via the bracket)?

Also, I'd think that most would want to mount the ATX power supply so as to draw cool air from the outside, through the side vent.


----------



## 4RTEX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PlayfulPhoenix*
> 
> Do you mean from the location/position of the power supply, or from a certain way it could be mounted (directly on the back, or on the side via the bracket)?
> 
> Also, I'd think that most would want to mount the ATX power supply so as to draw cool air from the outside, through the side vent.


I actually had this psu with fan facing outside (to draw cool air), but the benefit was next to nothing. It would be better to exhaust hot air from inside with psu ( fan facing motherboard).

In this instance it wouldn't matter so much about exact position.


----------



## She loved E

Subbing this. Dig your thorough process & looking forward to more updates.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4RTEX*
> 
> I actually had this psu with fan facing outside (to draw cool air), but the benefit was next to nothing. It would be better to exhaust hot air from inside with psu ( fan facing motherboard).


Hm. The bracket could be made to support either orientation, I think, but the efficacy for either position is something that would be interesting to test.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *She loved E*
> 
> Subbing this. Dig your thorough process & looking forward to more updates.


Glad to have you onboard









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PlayfulPhoenix*
> 
> Hm. The bracket could be made to support either orientation, I think, but the efficacy for either position is something that would be interesting to test.


There's mounting holes on the bracket for the PSU to face either way.


----------



## GreatChicken

AH! I... want one! With the exception of PSU size, this design pushes all my "bloody heck THAT's the way it should've been" buttons! Heck I don't care if its the test rig that gets into the stores in the end >_<'

Makes me wanna switch to SFX just to prepare for its market arrival (I probably SHOULD swap out the dubious Headway one I'm using regardless)

Standard ATX PSU support: I kind of would appreciate if the PSU *didn't float above the proc*. The good and cheap CPU coolers (including import cost and brick and mortar markup) are generally > 80mm tall.

(Thankfully few of them break 145mm if ever, but even so, most minimal cube mATX's with the PSU floating above the mobo allow 80mm - 120mm if you're lucky. That golddarned THING is in the way, and having an SFX PSU only returns you ~10mm because of the way the adapter bracket mounts the SFX. )


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GreatChicken*
> 
> Standard ATX PSU support: I kind of would appreciate if the PSU *didn't float above the proc*. The good and cheap CPU coolers (including import cost and brick and mortar markup) are generally > 80mm tall.
> 
> (Thankfully few of them break 145mm if ever, but even so, most minimal cube mATX's with the PSU floating above the mono allow 80mm - 120mm if you're lucky. That golddarned THING is in the way, and having an SFX PSU only returns you ~10mm because of the way the adapter bracket mounts the SFX. )


If we do move forward with this and decide to support ATX power supplies, the location above the motherboard is the only place we'll be providing such support. It does not impact the volume of the case, it does not compromise any of the existing configurations that are already possible, and it provides enough room above the CPU for a waterblock (AIO or otherwise) or a low-profile cooler.

It's not 100% ideal, of course, but it's a good option that makes Nova more versatile and practical for more people.

Also, to be clear, the current way that SFX/SRX-L power supplies are mounted would not be changed in any way. If we support ATX, we may support SFX in the same location so as to provide the option to mount things in the front of the case (fans, radiator, drives), but all layouts that are currently possible would still be possible with this design change.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PlayfulPhoenix*
> 
> If we do move forward with this and decide to support ATX power supplies, the location above the motherboard is the only place we'll be providing such support. It does not impact the volume of the case, it does not compromise any of the existing configurations that are already possible, and it provides enough room above the CPU for a waterblock (AIO or otherwise) or a low-profile cooler.
> 
> It's not 100% ideal, of course, but it's a good option that makes Nova more versatile and practical for more people.
> 
> Also, to be clear, the current way that SFX/SRX-L power supplies are mounted would not be changed in any way. If we support ATX, we may support SFX in the same location so as to provide the option to mount things in the front of the case (fans, radiator, drives), but all layouts that are currently possible would still be possible with this design change.


That's really awesome!
+rep


----------



## Lutfij

Well I've subbed myself here







awaiting more news and revisions


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lutfij*
> 
> Well I've subbed myself here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> awaiting more news and revisions


Thanks for following!

Speaking of which... I do want to share with everyone that we're looking to finalize design changes to Nova in the coming few weeks or so! In part, we want to state that as a progress update, but we also want to make sure that everyone's thoughts, ideas and perspectives are all voiced and heard, since community feedback and brainstorming have been an important part of the design process from the beginning. Consequently, I'd encourage anyone who hasn't shared or participated, to do so, if they are so inclined. Even silly or unfeasible ideas can be the seed for really clever or practical ones - which is why we emphasize sharing over restraint. (It's easy enough to wade through a bunch of ideas, not so much to consider the ones that are never expressed







).


----------



## Aibohphobia

Still need plenty of tweaking but the 2 x 3.5" bracket is taking shape:










Here it is mounted to the side bracket along with a SFX-L PSU.


----------



## InfraRedRabbit

is there a reason this case isnt slightly longer to allow mounting of the sfx psu on the side panel next to the mobo? hence allowing 2x 120mm fan positioning on the mounting bracket? this would allow 240mm of rad space and would not significantly increase volume.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InfraRedRabbit*
> 
> is there a reason this case isnt slightly longer to allow mounting of the sfx psu on the side panel next to the mobo? hence allowing 2x 120mm fan positioning on the mounting bracket? this would allow 240mm of rad space and *would not significantly increase volume.*


It would increase the depth to ~395mm and thus the volume to 20.1 liters. Plus that would be mostly wasted space under the PSU and in front of the GPU.

Perhaps a worthwhile tradeoff to you but there are people who think the current 17L size is too big so it's a matter of balance


----------



## iRUSH

Smaller the better IMO. With the overabundance of large itx cases and the thermal efficiency of modern tech, make it tiny


----------



## InfraRedRabbit

this is an matx case - not itx.

yes i see your point - however i just find that it seems really inefficient to not have 240mm rad support in a case with the length to do it. but i suppose thats my priority.

the space under the psu could be easily used for ssd mounting.

oh well good to get an answer for that. i was wondering why the layout differed to the Ncase M1 - i wouldnt have thought the extra 2slot depth would have added an extra 8L over the M1's ~12L


----------



## iRUSH

Makes me think what kind of case solutions we could create if there were better PSU designs (cost effective).

I feel like that's the hiccup on case design without performance compromise.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iRUSH*
> 
> Makes me think what kind of case solutions we could create if there were better PSU designs (cost effective).
> 
> I feel like that's the hiccup on case design without performance compromise.


The ATX standard for power supplies is ridiculously large, in my opinion. SFX is much closer to an "ideal", but the 600W ceiling can be limiting for some. Hence, my hope that SFX-L will catch on - it's still way smaller than ATX, but you get a 120mm fan and higher theoretical power delivery than SFX.

Although we are indeed exploring options to support ATX, we do this to broaden Nova's appeal and utility, and to give builders more options where it is feasible and worthwhile. Even if we do move forward with this support, then, Nova is steadfastly a SFX-oriented case. Most builds will be much better off with it - it's really just noise and power-conscious builders (or perhaps people transplanting existing builds) who will want to utilize ATX.

(I mean, just look at the picture in the OP - the tiny little power supply is in the top right corner, out of the way, letting the rest of the build shine. _That's_ how PSU's should present themselves in builds








)


----------



## Jawswing

I think (hope) by the time this case is available, we will be seeing more SFX and SFX-L PSU's on the market.
I've only just built my NCase build, but I'm wanting to go for a 4K gaming build, and I'd need SLi for that. Throw in X99 and I think the 600W limit you might just get away with, but you wouldn't be able to overclock anything. (Come to think of it does the SX600G support SLi?).

So I think that support for ATX PSU's would be welcome, but IF newer SFX/SFX-L PSUs do come out, with higher wattage, then there's probably no need.


----------



## Aibohphobia

The SX600-G isn't meant for SLI, I'm using splitters to get the 4 x 6-pin connectors I need for dual 980s.


----------



## horstprott

It was mentioned earlier in the thread about crossfire not being a good idea due to power constraints, however the newer R9 285 cards are way less power hungry and cooler running than say the 208's by about 100w! What do you reckon possibly the only pair of AMD cards to use? Or just treat yourself and splash out on a 295x2? Any thoughts as I am a little bit of a team red fanboy but if recommended I will consider using team green in my build (when the time comes).


----------



## horstprott

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *horstprott*
> 
> It was mentioned earlier in the thread about crossfire not being a good idea due to power constraints, however the newer R9 285 cards are way less power hungry and cooler running than say the 208's by about 100w! What do you reckon possibly the only pair of AMD cards to use? Or just treat yourself and splash out on a 295x2? Any thoughts as I am a little bit of a team red fanboy but if recommended I will consider using team green in my build (when the time comes).


meant 280's stupid autocorrect!


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *horstprott*
> 
> It was mentioned earlier in the thread about crossfire not being a good idea due to power constraints, however the newer R9 285 cards are way less power hungry and cooler running than say the 208's by about 100w! What do you reckon possibly the only pair of AMD cards to use? Or just treat yourself and splash out on a 295x2? Any thoughts as I am a little bit of a team red fanboy but if recommended I will consider using team green in my build (when the time comes).


According to TechPowerUp the 285 draws about 250W at maximum load, though they're testing a factory overclocked card.

During gaming it's drawing about 200W so that would be doable for CrossFire if the rest of the system isn't real power hungry and you don't do anything that would completely max out the card.

295X2 won't work with SFX at least, it draws 500W gaming and 646 at maximum load.

I feel you, I've only had AMD cards since 2009 but Nvidia won me over for this generation with their power efficiency.


----------



## horstprott

I know your right, I just really wanted to be maybe a little different. Its a shame radeon had all the chances of getting a card in at that price point that didn't consume as much power or run as hot as the rest of the family and they nearly got there. I mean it is the coolest running and less power hungry of all their cards just sadly not enough for our needs. looking at other cards in a purely price/ performance/heat/power ratio (and doing so rationally and unemotionally) I have to admit that I'm probably looking at a pair of GTX 970's. I'll buy one then get the next in a few months time when funds allow. I know there has been an issue with the 970 however even that being said its price should lower as people complain. it could end up being a bargain!


----------



## horstprott

I was looking about the place and I found this little prize. it has a thread on this forum. http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_142750742023616&key=7777bc3c17029328d03146e0ed767841&libId=i7sd5ywu01000kb5000DAerr57r8c&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.overclock.net%2Ft%2F1536680%2Fhas-anyone-ever-used-this-athena-800w-sfx-ish-psu&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fathenapower.com%2Fproduct%2Fpower-supply%2Fmicro-sfx%2Fap-mp4atx80fep8%23&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com.hk%2F&title=Has%20anyone%20ever%20used%20this%3F%20%5BAthena%20800W%20SFX-ish%20psu%5D&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fathenapower.com%2Fproduct%2Fpower-supply%2Fmicro-sfx%2Fap-mp4atx80fep8%23

If its reliable this could be the droid we are looking for!


----------



## horstprott

I didn't read to the bottom of the thread, your already one step ahead of me.

650w is the best I can find for SFX with a gold rating and some sort of recommendation other than the manufacturer. I'm educating myself on how and who really makes them and how they work, its like everyday is a school day!


----------



## Aibohphobia

I believe the 650W is the Dirac Tesla which is a bit of an oddity. I don't know if it was ever 100% confirmed but the suspicion is that they're from the first production run of the SilverStone SX600-G that ended up not shipping to retail due to a compatibility issue with the Titan-Z and ended up in the hands of Dirac (a Japanese distributor of computer parts including PSUs) who recased and uprated them.

They're not available outside Japan though.


----------



## horstprott

Good god your on the ball! Yeah i have seen rumors and odd references to others but they all dry up or just prove to be outright false.

The SilverStone is the one with the best rep out there and at least its been thoroughly tested by others first.

I'm not sure i want to be the guy who puts something with even the hint of a ropey back story onto 800 or so quids worth of gear and wish for the best.
I have been trawling round the computer malls here in Wan Chai and It clearly becomes apparent that due to a global online market you cant even get anything cheaper over here. most of the cheaper sales online come out of these malls they all have ebay shops and amazon and newegg accounts.

I did show the owners of a case shop your website and they were massively impressed! I was looking for a specific mobo and they kept shoving ATX ones at me then yelling about "no MATX " in Cantonese.
So it just seemed easier to show them your hard work.

I will probs get the SilverStone.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *horstprott*
> 
> I did show the owners of a case shop your website and they were massively impressed! I was looking for a specific mobo and they kept shoving ATX ones at me then yelling about "no MATX " in Cantonese.


MicroATX really seems to be ignored these days, all the attention is on ATX or Mini-ITX









I got the ATX bracket in so here's pics:









Here's the bracket installed with a 180mm ATX PSU. The X41 is on top because I forgot to grab some double-sided tape so I could stick it to the front.









Here you can see why the PSU is so far forward, it has to clear the AC inlet









Not much room between the PSU and the board









Went ahead and test fit the Alphacool ST30 in the front


















You can see here that this configuration will limit the card length.









For fun here's a pic of my growing collection of SilverStone PSUs









Even with the fairly heavy ST1000-G the side bracket held up just fine, I don't think that having an ATX on the hinged bracket would be a problem in the long run.

That said, it really doesn't leave much space up front with a longer PSU like this one so we'll probably be looking at the PSU mounted to the frame rear.


----------



## horstprott

It just gets better doesn't it. Its now looking like the case has the ability if needed to be incredibly modular.

This is really going to help a lot of guys who did not get all the smaller components together before hand. It will take all their older kit, giving them time to optimize at a later date.
also by the looks of it when its finally ready for sale there wont be a config or set up that you haven't tried.
I've now just about got my full parts (wish) list sorted out. I will order them by Wednesday when I get paid and should have the build into its temporary home by the 11th or 12th.

Then its the waiting game!!!


----------



## Jeffinslaw

I don't like the idea of using a full sized ATX PSU in such a small case. This is SFX so use an SFX PSU. Just my







looks great though!

-Jeffinslaw


----------



## willemdoom

Well if you mount your sfx psu in the bracket there is so much more room for activities in the front, actual watercooling is becoming more and more possible.


----------



## NATERG8TER

I agree with willemdoom. If you did mount the SFX PSU on the same bracket then more watercooling could be doable. A thicker 240 rad could maybe be put in. However the Graphics card limitation would be present. With watercooled SLI 970s that wouldn't be a problem, although it may be a downgrade, it could work. You could also do the same thing that EVGA did with their Hadron hydro and be able to buy a bump out or a pedestal like Caselabs. Mounting the 240mm ST30 in the bottom and having to give up one slot that could be used for something else seems like a big compromise. Although some people wouldn't like the added space, people who love to watercool might see it as a worthy compromise.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffinslaw*
> 
> I don't like the idea of using a full sized ATX PSU in such a small case. This is SFX so use an SFX PSU. Just my
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> looks great though!


I can appreciate the feeling, and Nova is absolutely a case designed specifically for the SFX/SFX-L standard. We're just exploring ATX support so as to give more options to people - which is to say that we're making ATX work within the confines of Nova, rather than making the confines of Nova work around ATX.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NATERG8TER*
> 
> I agree with willemdoom. If you did mount the SFX PSU on the same bracket then more watercooling could be doable. However the Graphics card limitation would be present.


We would support rear-mounting both ATX and SFX if we did it at all. And, in fact, Aiboh has already explored additional mounting options (both for the side and front) in that specific instance. For front-mounted radiators, you would struggle with cards around the length of the GTX 980/Titan X, as you'd need thin fans or a very thin radiator (only sealed AIO's would work, really). But you'd have much more room up top for a 120mm unit.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *horstprott*
> 
> It just gets better doesn't it. Its now looking like the case has the ability if needed to be incredibly modular.
> 
> This is really going to help a lot of guys who did not get all the smaller components together before hand. It will take all their older kit, giving them time to optimize at a later date.


People who want silent builds, or very power hungry builds, will also benefit from this option.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Finally got around to testing SLI 980s with the dust filter. So this is with just the front 120mm, no other case fans. Doesn't make much difference in temps but the GPU fans are working much harder with the dust filters installed.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Koubi*
> 
> Please make the handle the same color as the case! Would look dope.
> 
> Is the crowdfunding DL still mid 2015? Will the case be more affordable for backers?


For the CF campaign we're actually leaning towards removing the handle as standard, because of cost. We're trying to figure out a way to provide a handle as an option, to those who want it, though. So stay tuned in for any more updates on that front. (Presumably we'd offer color options mimicking case color options, where possible).

And yes, mid-year is still the plan. Some more info about this sort of thing can be gleaned off of the FAQ on our website, for reference.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Hey everyone - we've got a fresh new poll for you all to consider!

But first, an explanation: One of the more recent design changes we've pondered is rear-mounted ATX and SFX support, and one of the really great benefits of this is that the lack of a front-mounted SFX unit opens the entire front of the case for other hardware to be mounted. Just as the bottom of Nova supports 2x120mm, in fact, the front of Nova would have essentially the same support.

With Nova's current dimensions, there's ~314mm (~12.4") of depth available within the case, from the inside-back to the inside-front. And since the microATX specification calls for a depth of 244mm, that leaves ~70mm (or 7cm) of space between the edge of the motherboard and the inner-front of Nova with the current dimensions.

That's a pretty good amount of space, but almost all graphics cards will reduce it somewhat - nVidia's flagships top out at ~267mm (leaving 47mm of clearance), and AMD cards range from ~269-295mm (leaving 19-45mm). Such cards would greatly limit what someone could put on the bottom-front 120mm mount - a fan would work most of the time, but the HDD bracket wouldn't fit, and a radiator would all but necessitate a thin fan (or be impossible outright for longer cards).

So, here's the question: _Would it be worth it to add a certain amount of depth to the case, so as to enable these options?_

With 10mm of added depth, we'd get the following:

Just about every graphics card around (excluding the R9 295X2, naturally) would support a front mounted-fan, and just about every graphics card period would be supported length-wise (including the R9 295X2, though it's _technically_ possible within the existing depth).
For cards up to 10.5" (such as nVidia's flagships), a radiator and fan(s) could be up to 57mm thick. That would be enough clearance to support many, if not most, 120mm and 240mm AIOs, and would support any radiators up to ~32mm thick when used with regular fans.
With ITX-style graphics cards, and PCI devices of that length, you could install the HDD cage in the bottom-front, as well as the top-front (though we're not sure yet if that would preclude using the other 120mm mount).
...all at a cost of a 17cm^2 (3%) increase in Nova's footprint, and a .5l (3%) increase to volume.

Builds that would really benefit from this would include those with flagship graphics and a 240mm AIO (which would now be possible without interfering with PCI slots); builds that use 4-5 PCI slots but want several 3.5" drives; builds with very long graphics cards that would preclude a front-mounted fan; builds with graphics cards that have AIOs (which could be mounted in front of the card itself)... And basically any builds that couldn't otherwise mount certain hardware on the bottom, be it fans, drives, radiators, and so on.

We could add additional depth, too, beyond 10mm, though it would just mean that longer cards, thicker rads, etc, would be supported. Diminishing returns probably kick in pretty quickly for this sort of design change.

Anyway, we're generally very resistant to adding volume for any reason, so we're very interested in everyone's thoughts here.


----------



## 4RTEX

You could probably save that material by redesigning front panel. Looks like you have about 15 mm there already.


----------



## willemdoom

Im definitely not against a size increase but more than 1 extra liter added to the case seems to much. I mean the best reason to buy the nova that it is by far the smallest matx case out there. I dont think that you should increase the size so much just to cater more needs of some people, with buying this case come some limitations and we should accept that these limitations is what makes this case so small and great.


----------



## horstprott

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willemdoom*
> 
> Im definitely not against a size increase but more than 1 extra liter added to the case seems to much. I mean the best reason to buy the nova that it is by far the smallest matx case out there. I dont think that you should increase the size so much just to cater more needs of some people, with buying this case come some limitations and we should accept that these limitations is what makes this case so small and great.


If you need more room you buy a bigger case. Like the one im up to my wrists in right now.


----------



## willemdoom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *horstprott*
> 
> If you need more room you buy a bigger case. Like the one im up to my wrists in right now.


exactly, this case needs to stay as small as possible


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *4RTEX*
> 
> You could probably save that material by redesigning front panel. Looks like you have about 15 mm there already.


For aesthetic reasons, we aren't keen on removing the front panel, and just having more vents. And for functional reasons, we can't make the panel any shallower, since it would quickly begin to restrict airflow.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willemdoom*
> 
> Im definitely not against a size increase but more than 1 extra liter added to the case seems to much. I mean the best reason to buy the nova that it is by far the smallest matx case out there. I dont think that you should increase the size so much just to cater more needs of some people, with buying this case come some limitations and we should accept that these limitations is what makes this case so small and great.


It's worth mentioning that the various depth increases (and consequent volume increases) proposed in the poll are not indicative of our interest in implementing them. We included a range simply to get a sense of how much people value reduced volume, and certain functionality.

If we were convinced that this was a change worth making, I think that the current upper bound for a depth increase would be around the 15mm mark (1.5cm), since the hardware configurations we've looked at wouldn't really benefit beyond that. But that's a big if.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *horstprott*
> 
> If you need more room you buy a bigger case. Like the one im up to my wrists in right now.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willemdoom*
> 
> exactly, this case needs to stay as small as possible


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *horstprott*
> 
> I don't have any technical reasons of why I would be against a size increase. But I'm personally against a size increase. The Novas USP is its size and stripping back of things rendered unessential by time and better technical solutions. I'm happy to pay extra in order to have a the smallest MATX available and buy what fits and works well. The case I'm moving from is 22L and thats way to big!


What if the question was rephrased like this: If Nova was 3-5% larger, would you no longer be interested in buying it? That's ultimately the size increase that we'd be making. And I don't know that most people would even notice the difference without comparing it side-by-side, to be honest.

I don't say this to assert that making the case deeper is the "right" thing to do, so much as to illustrate that this is a hard decision. When you consider the possible configurations it enables (dual GPU and a 240mm AIO; front-mounted HDD's and all four PCI slots; ATX PSUs with a thick 120mm radiator on the top-front; front fans with graphics of practically any size...), there is a lot that is gained from that ~4% increase. A lot that could make Nova appeal to more people, too.

Anyway, we really appreciate everyone's feedback! If you haven't voted in the poll yet, I implore that you do so


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Just a heads up - I've posted an update on the KI blog that summarizes some of the more significant design changes we've been mulling over the past month. Those who follow us on various forum threads should be familiar with most of it, but I'd bet that almost every reader will find kernels of new info in the post, so I invite everyone to take a peek!


----------



## MicroCat

I voted yes to the inflationary internal expansion. To me, it's worth the extra mm to have the option install a quality, quiet ATX power supply rather than being restricted to the less than robust, noisy SFX(-L) options to date. I'm in the 'People who want silent builds' group. A small, but quiet group of malcontents. ;-)


----------



## superblockio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> I'm in the 'People who want silent builds' group. A small, but quiet group


I see what you did there.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> I voted yes to the inflationary internal expansion. To me, it's worth the extra mm to have the option install a quality, quiet ATX power supply rather than being restricted to the less than robust, noisy SFX(-L) options to date. I'm in the 'People who want silent builds' group. A small, but quiet group of malcontents. ;-)


To be clear, unless you were using an extraordinarily long ATX power supply, most any unit should fit inside Nova as-is.

However, since we're on the subject... Aiboh and I want to do a repeat of the last poll we posted! This time, though, we're limiting it to a consideration of a 15mm depth increase. After looking at the range of video cards, radiators, AIO's, and other hardware that's available, we've concluded that ~15mm would be the necessary length to add, in order to provide the greatest utility from such a change. Any less, and you begin to quickly reduce component flexibility; any more, and you only really benefit a small minority of builds that use the longest of cards.

So, what do you think: Is it worth it to add around 15mm of depth to Nova?

After playing around with this change, we can confirm the following about it's implications:

Super-long cards (R9 295x2, or rediculous-length non-reference cards/coolers) will now be "comfortably" supported, and would be easier to install. Pretty much all cards will be supported length-wise, actually, that we know of.
For all but the longest of cards (again, R9 295x2-territory), a 25mm front fan will be supported as well.
For 10.5" cards (most notably nVidia's current and last-gen flagships, 780(Ti)/970/980/Titan/Titan X/Titan Z, as well as many of AMD's cards at or below the 270X, though some 280s/290s can be near this length), there will be ~58-60mm of clearance at the front. That's enough for pretty much any AIO, and any discrete radiator around 30-35mm - which will be particularly useful for builds that rear-mount the power supply, or populate 4-5 PCI slots (either of which prevent mounting a radiator and/or fan in their respective locations).
Since we're adapting "sliding" 120mm mounts/grooves at the bottom of Nova, the ~15mm of depth would be reflected in added range of movement for bottom-mounted components. This could be handy if you had hardware mounted to the front and bottom, for example.
For builds with ITX-length graphics cards and PCI devices, front-mounting the HDD cage near the bottom would now be possible.
Finally, this change would give additional clearance to any hardware mounted to the side bracket, when it is swung out. Currently, the X41 used in testing _just_ swings past the 2x2.5" drive bracket, even with the mounts pushed all the way towards the back. The depth increase would thus alleviate concerns of clearance issues for practically anything you could mount there, when used in conjunction with the drive bracket.
*The "cost" of these changes would be a ~4.5% increase in Nova's depth (to 348mm) and volume (to ~17.7L).*
I encourage everyone to both vote in the poll, and contribute their thoughts on the thread! We're still very much on the fence about this possible change, and look to you all for a better sense of what you'd value - and whether or not this would affect the sorts of builds you'd want to make inside Nova.


----------



## MicroCat

I voted yes to the inflationary internal expansion. It's worth the extra mm to install a decent ATX power supply. Being restricted to near zero choice SFX options to date.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PlayfulPhoenix*
> 
> To be clear, unless you were using an extraordinarily long ATX power supply, most any unit should fit inside Nova as-is.


My preference is the Leadex-based EVGA G2 series. They perform extraordinarily quietly. Is 180mm extraordinarily long?

Just in case, I voted yes again for the extra 15mm.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> My preference is the Leadex-based EVGA G2 series. They perform extraordinarily quietly. Is 180mm extraordinarily long?


You'd have almost the entire length of the case available (333mm with the current design), minus any space needed for power cables. I personally don't know of any ATX power supplies that would be too long - any of the huge ones that come to mind are still only around 200mm







Plus, if such a unit even exists, it would probably only be useful for outrageous builds (quad-SLI/CrossFire and such) that just aren't possible in Nova anyway.

Question for you, though: Assuming that you're only using a single GPU, wouldn't you want to go with a fanless unit? SilverStone's Nightjar comes to mind.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PlayfulPhoenix*
> 
> You'd have almost the entire length of the case available (333mm with the current design), minus any space needed for power cables. I personally don't know of any ATX power supplies that would be too long - any of the huge ones that come to mind are still only around 200mm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus, if such a unit even exists, it would probably only be useful for outrageous builds (quad-SLI/CrossFire and such) that just aren't possible in Nova anyway.
> 
> Question for you, though: Assuming that you're only using a single GPU, wouldn't you want to go with a fanless unit? SilverStone's Nightjar comes to mind.


Well that's good news about the PSU length.

Some might want to go with a fanless PSU, but my coil whine experiences with a few Seasonics 400/460s precludes that. Believe the nightjar is based on the Seasonic fanless platform as well.

Might consider the Super Flower fanless platform tho as they have been reported to be whine-free. Still, I've been really pleased with the Leadex semi-passive mode. As well, I'm not really keen to dump excess PSU heat at load into a confined already-heated space. Not opposed to it - but I'm on the fringe of your target market - no noisy AIOs in my builds - probably best to ignore me. ;-)


----------



## superblockio

Personally I'm voting against it, just because I want something as close to the M1 in size as possible that can fit two GPUs. And, as far as I know, I can already accomplish SLI with reasonable cooling in the current size, especially if I go with an SFX power supply.

Edit: Wow, looks like I'm in the minority. Ah well, it shouldn't affect things too much I suppose.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Here's what I've come up with for the fan mounts on the front:










Should give complete flexibility for mounting fans and/or radiators.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

A quick cross-post from LTT:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willemdoom1 on LTT*
> you mentioned that you will be including front io in the final design but wouldn't the case be much cleaner without it.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia on LTT*
> I've grown rather fond of the clean look of the prototype but front IO has been much requested.


You know, I'm too curious to not put a poll up on this:

What do you think: Would you prefer that Nova have USB and audio ports up front (under the power button), or would you prefer that we eschew front I/O completely for a cleaner look?

I'm doubtful that we'll get rid of the I/O, since it's all but a requirement in any case that's to be sold (many would probably refuse to buy it if it didn't have front-mounted I/O ports), but there is definitely an understood correlation between shrinking case sizes and the acceptance of fewer (or no) I/O ports, as they become easier to access in the back. I'd love to know where Nova falls on that trend line.


----------



## GreatChicken

Boards with Realtek chips are capable of doing 5.1 or 7.1 output even with only 3 ports at the back and 2 ports in front. The drivers are capable of reassigning, say, the mic port as the left out, and the aux port as subwoofer/cenrter, and in fact an interface appears when you plug anything to those ports. It can even use the green port as line or mic in.

Having the 2 front ports present would be nice, means I can do 7.1 and still have a mic port on a cheaper board.with only 3 audio ports at the back ;3


----------



## MicroCat

I voted for the front ports - svelte, sleek lines are great, until you have to plug something into it and are forced to reach around back while knocking the coffee over on the cat who panics and leaps onto your face trying to suffocate their insolent staff and you stumble hitting your head on the desk by the lit scented candles your wife bought that she thought would improve the aroma of your stinky man cave and you jump up and run around screaming with your hair on fire while the neighbours call the SPCA about the maniac next door when all you wanted to do was plugin in your headphones to listen to a few fan samples at SPCR for the next SFF build.


----------



## catbuster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> I voted for the front ports - svelte, sleek lines are great, until you have to plug something into it and are forced to reach around back while knocking the coffee over on the cat who panics and leaps onto your face trying to suffocate their insolent staff and you stumble hitting your head on the desk by the lit scented candles your wife bought that she thought would improve the aroma of your stinky man cave and you jump up and run around screaming with your hair on fire while the neighbours call the SPCA about the maniac next door when all you wanted to do was plugin in your headphones to listen to a few fan samples at SPCR for the next SFF build.


----------



## WiSK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> I voted for the front ports - svelte, sleek lines are great, until you have to plug something into it and are forced to reach around back while knocking the coffee over on the cat who panics and leaps onto your face trying to suffocate their insolent staff and you stumble hitting your head on the desk by the lit scented candles your wife bought that she thought would improve the aroma of your stinky man cave and you jump up and run around screaming with your hair on fire while the neighbours call the SPCA about the maniac next door when all you wanted to do was plugin in your headphones to listen to a few fan samples at SPCR for the next SFF build.


Awesome!


----------



## Aibohphobia

Got lucky and snagged a Intel 750 400GB from the first batch at Newegg. Then I ran some thermal tests to see how it held up when installed between two video cards:









Here it is installed between the two reference GTX 980s. Side panel was installed when running the tests though.

When running both Unigine Valley and pounding the SSD using Iometer with random 4K writes to the entire drive it got pretty warm.

1 hour of Iometer, GPUs running Valley, front fan @ 1020RPM
ambient: 28-29°C
750 temp: 72°C









Pretty toasty









Then with Valley still running I stopped the Iometer testing and ran ATTO:










So even with the video cards cooking the drive it doesn't seem to effect performance.

However the Intel spec rates the AIC version only up to 55°C operating temperature (2.5" version is rated up to 70°C) so for now I took the second card out and have the rig configured with the 750 in the top slot and the remaining 980 in the bottom slot.

Another bench for fun:


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quick announcement, folks: we have a new update on the KI blog! It's just a simple summary of some of the additional changes we've made to the design - I like to elaborate a bit on the "how" and "why" of certain things, so it's in these posts where I often have the opportunity to do that.

I also threw in some neat testing Aiboh has done of Intel's new 750 SSD, when sandwiched between two GTX 980's in Nova


----------



## Koubi

Do you recommend a reference/blower style GPU for this case or will an open air GPU work?


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Koubi*
> 
> Do you recommend a reference/blower style GPU for this case or will an open air GPU work?


For single GPU either is fine. For dual-GPU reference coolers would be preferable.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Did some hardware testing today.









Testing out the Noctua L9x65 heatsink.

5930K at stock clocks and ambient at 23.5°C it was idling at about 38°C with the NF-A9 PWM 92x25mm fan (this isn't the included one) running at ~900 RPM.

After 10 minutes of Prime96 Blend @ 10 threads it got up to about 90°C and the fan was running at 2040 RPM. CPU was throttling slight, dropping briefly from 3.6GHz down to 3.5GHz.

So I tried adding a 120mm on the side bracket blowing towards the heatsink and after 20 minutes of Prime it got to about 81°C.

Left to its own devices, the L9x65 isn't suited to cooling a socket 2011 CPU at heavy load, but with additional case cooling the temps are reasonable considering the small size.









Here's a 3.5" HDD installed. So in this configuration you could fit a 3.5" drive, a video card, PCIe SSD, and a sound card.









Here you can see the HDD mounting screws, can't really see in this pic but there are rubber grommets that the drive is sitting on.

Did some thermal tests. The drive is a Toshiba DT01ACA300 3TB 7200RPM. At ~25.5°C ambient the drive got up to 48°C with the drive idling but the GTX 980 running Valley after 25 minutes.

Then I ran CrystalDiskMark 4K tests on the HDD to work it out while still running Valley and after 30 minutes the drive got up to 53°C.

With both GPU and HDD idling the drive sits at 43°C.

So perhaps having the video card in the third slot isn't ideal for HDD temps but that's easily fixed by moving the GPU to the top slot.


----------



## Hammerdin

Whats the maximum height for cpu heatsinks?


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hammerdin*
> 
> Whats the maximum height for cpu heatsinks?


About 141mm with the side bracket installed and 147mm without currently.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

A slew of updates today!

*First off, take a look at these*:



James is currently putting the finishing touches on the rear plate system that Nova will be using. For the green, one can rear-mount an ATX power supply, and for the blue, you get the expected A/C inlet/fan mount/WC cutouts.

Fortunately, a tolerance issue we thought could prevent use of the FrozenQ reservoir has been mitigated, so - although we're waiting to confirm with FrozenQ - we expect that their M1 res will work!

Also, at the moment we've left the rear-mounting option as ATX only, but we wanted to hear from you guys as to why someone might want to rear mount a SFX unit, since we and others have proposed that in the past. We can very easily make a plate to support that, but when we've considered builds with a SFX unit in the back... well, it's almost always been just better to put it up in the front.

*For the second update*, I'm pleased to note that we've been in considerable communication with a few manufacturers, and have started to receive samples! This is mostly to do with looking at various paint colors and finishes, but it's a milestone that's indicative of how close we are now to manufacturing the final prototypes - which will of course be followed by the full production run







We've been trying to maintain a good pace that isn't rushed but progresses quickly, and we're so far very happy with our speed.

Anyway, I'm sure we'll share pics once we have some paint chips in our hands, but if there are any colors you'd like to have up for consideration, feel free to voice out on that now!

*Finally*, I've just thrown up a new post on the KI blog today, for those who like to follow that!


----------



## Dyaems

Replaceable rear plates? Thats sweet


----------



## Aibohphobia

How important is front audio connectors?

We have some things in mind for the case that will make it much more flexible but we'll probably only have room for either 2 x USB 3.0 OR audio, not both.


----------



## MicroCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> How important is front audio connectors?
> 
> We have some things in mind for the case that will make it much more flexible but we'll probably only have room for either 2 x USB 3.0 OR audio, not both.


Made my worst-case-scenario opinion clear here.

Still...it's not a dealbreaker for me, but Audio I/O & USB is kind of near the top of the expected-to-have list. However, if I could only pick one, it would be USB. I can always just make tunes up in my head. Massive data transfer, not so much.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Ok, did some rejiggering of the frame and both will fit and looks aesthetically pleasing to boot


----------



## MicroCat

Cool. Have pics? Or is it too pleasing to be seen on the net?


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MicroCat*
> 
> Cool. Have pics? Or is it too pleasing to be seen on the net?


It's literally so awesome that it keeps me up at night









The design is in a heavy state of flux so no pics since I'm not sure if it'll make it to the final version.


----------



## Aibohphobia

We'll be dropping the idea of front ATX PSUs for this design. After implementing some other stuff it turns out it'd require more like a 1.1L increase. Reception has been lukewarm for the 0.6L so that won't fly.


----------



## Dyaems

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> How important is front audio connectors?
> 
> We have some things in mind for the case that will make it much more flexible but we'll probably only have room for either 2 x USB 3.0 OR audio, not both.


IMHO you can just completely remove the front audio jacks, using those can degrade sound too (for those who have those "trained ears")!

Just use USB 3.0, and make the cable abit shorter I guess.. but the stock length would be fine as well!

----

Voted yes from the Poll... Hopefully Seasonic Modular PSUs will fit and pairing it with a 10.5" GPU


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyaems*
> 
> IMHO you can just completely remove the front audio jacks, using those can degrade sound too (for those who have those "trained ears")!


If we have front audio it'll be done right, with EMI filtering per the Intel spec and high-quality connectors.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyaems*
> 
> Voted yes from the Poll... Hopefully Seasonic Modular PSUs will fit and pairing it with a 10.5" GPU


I decided to drop that plan because it turned out it would require more space than I thought. Plus this just got announced: https://www.techpowerup.com/212925/silverstone-ready-with-a-700-watt-sfx-l-power-supply.html


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> Plus this just got announced: https://www.techpowerup.com/212925/silverstone-ready-with-a-700-watt-sfx-l-power-supply.html


The importance of this discovery is actually fairly significant, where Nova is concerned. Right now, SFX is limited to 600W, which supports all single-GPU builds comfortably, and can support some dual-GPU builds, but not all of them.

With a 700W platinum SFX-L unit, Nova would be able to support all dual-GPU builds you could come up with, while using the smaller power supply standard. You could have dual Titan X's, an octa-core Intel CPU, and all the other hardware you could stuff inside Nova, without the need to use a full-sized ATX PSU at all.

Since we've designed Nova from the start around SFX, this is a pretty big deal. The power supply would no longer be a ceiling when it comes to component support - of all things, only the motherboard itself would be the limiting factor.

Which would be pretty remarkable


----------



## Jeffinslaw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> Plus this just got announced: https://www.techpowerup.com/212925/silverstone-ready-with-a-700-watt-sfx-l-power-supply.html


I feel like the guy from the Taco Bell steak doubledilla commercial right now. "YES! YES! YESSSSSS!"


----------



## Dyaems

im a bit skeptical with dual Titan Xs for a 700W PSU, even if does max wattage more than what it is rated. a mildly OC'd 4770k and a stock Titan X is already pulling out 380-400w out of my outlet, through my wattmeter. And that is running Heaven only without stressing the CPU. Adding another X will probably exceed 700W, specially with CPU+GPU load or gaming.

Also, people here likes to OC their systems! Since this is Overclock.net™

EDIT:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> I decided to drop that plan because it turned out it would require more space than I thought. Plus this just got announced: https://www.techpowerup.com/212925/silverstone-ready-with-a-700-watt-sfx-l-power-supply.html


No worries, its highly unlikely that I will have to purchase the case now if this is the case, because even the 600w variant of the SFX-L PSU is nowhere to be found in our country









I'm only one person, so I'm pretty sure you guys don't mind


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyaems*
> 
> im a bit skeptical with dual Titan Xs for a 700W PSU, even if does max wattage more than what it is rated. a mildly OC'd 4770k and a stock Titan X is already pulling out 380-400w out of my outlet, through my wattmeter. And that is running Heaven only without stressing the CPU. Adding another X will probably exceed 700W, specially with CPU+GPU load or gaming.
> 
> Also, people here likes to OC their systems! Since this is Overclock.net™


I pulled about 515W AC (~460W DC) with a 5930K and dual 980s at stock clocks running Prime and FurMark at the same time.

Titan-X draws about 85W DC more than the GTX 980 at full load: https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_Titan_X/27.html

So 460 + 85 + 85 = 630W DC









Anything but a very mild overclock is pretty much out of the question though


----------



## Dyaems

I guess you believe TPU better than another random user, no worries


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dyaems*
> 
> I guess you believe TPU better than another random user, no worries


I don't mean to dismiss your measurements but TPU measures DC power draw at both the PCIe power connectors and the PCIe slot on the motherboard using a $1650 digital multimeter.

When the SX600-G was announced I carefully crunched the numbers and determined it would work and after getting the parts and testing it the power usage numbers I was getting matched theirs.

Just saw your edit, you can use ATX, it'll mount to the rear where the 92mm fan is using an adapter plate. So you lose use of a radiator on the side bracket or air coolers but that's it.

And if you're willing to pay for shipping + import for the case why not import a PSU as well?

If that's not an option I'm sorry the case doesn't appeal to you anymore but I'm already getting flak for the 17L to 18L increase, can't please everyone


----------



## Aibohphobia

Got some powder coat samples in and man does the textured black look and feel nice:










Completely hides fingerprints too


----------



## Hammerdin

That looks awsome!


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Just got the paint samples in the mail that Aiboh inspected a few days ago









I know that he was eager to show off the black, but to me, the most impressive color was definitely the red


----------



## BBZZHH

Wow, that looks amazing. What does that finish cost relative to a standard anodization?


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BBZZHH*
> 
> Wow, that looks amazing. What does that finish cost relative to a standard anodization?


Not sure at large volumes but at smaller volumes powder coating is cheaper. Anodization requires nasty chemicals and expensive equipment so most metal shops don't do it in-house.

We're doing steel so anodization isn't an option anyway.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *BBZZHH*
> 
> Wow, that looks amazing. What does that finish cost relative to a standard anodization?
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure at large volumes but at smaller volumes powder coating is cheaper. Anodization requires nasty chemicals and expensive equipment so most metal shops don't do it in-house.
> 
> We're doing steel so anodization isn't an option anyway.
Click to expand...

It's worth noting that there were a bunch of practical reasons we went with powder coated steel to begin with, too: namely, for bright colors, eco-friendliness (dry powder has little waste and only uses heat), and excellent durability, especially when compared to scratch-prone anodized aluminum. For what Nova is, it's really the best solution, especially when you consider the sorts of people that will want to move it around a lot.

And in any case, powder coating ain't cheap, especially since we're coating literally every surface of the case. Plus, the brand of powder coat we've elected to use is generally considered one of the best available, since we want to maintain top quality with whatever we go with









...Beyond that, we're also sticking with a fine texture finish, since it isn't prone to fingerprints, and since it just looks and feels _fantastic_. The pictures really are only an approximation of how it looks like - when you see and feel the finish in person, it's really quite impressive.


----------



## BBZZHH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> Not sure at large volumes but at smaller volumes powder coating is cheaper. Anodization requires nasty chemicals and expensive equipment so most metal shops don't do it in-house.
> 
> We're doing steel so anodization isn't an option anyway.


By far the best looking steel PC case I've seen
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PlayfulPhoenix*
> 
> ...Beyond that, we're also sticking with a fine texture finish, since it isn't prone to fingerprints, and since it just looks and feels _fantastic_.


That was my first thought. I figured fingerprints weren't going to be an issue when I first purchased the NCase as I assumed I wouldn't be touching it much, but somehow my front panel always has fingerprints. Will the powder coating be on the actual frame as well (not just he side panels)? I'm also curious how the coating holds up around the screws as those are the areas where paint gets stripped and anodized aluminum gets scratched.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BBZZHH*
> 
> That was my first thought. I figured fingerprints weren't going to be an issue when I first purchased the NCase as I assumed I wouldn't be touching it much, but somehow my front panel always has fingerprints. Will the powder coating be on the actual frame as well (not just he side panels)? I'm also curious how the coating holds up around the screws as those are the areas where paint gets stripped and anodized aluminum gets scratched.


Current plan is to powder coat everything. Panels, frame, brackets, handle, etc.

On the prototype I can see where the screw have left marks but no chipping, and I've taken the side panel off way more times than most people ever will.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

First CaseLabs, and now BitFenix... It's a good thing we're changing the name of the case, huh?


----------



## willemdoom

Do you think CaseLabs was aware of your name and didn't care or it just is coincidence?


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willemdoom*
> 
> Do you think CaseLabs was aware of your name and didn't care or it just is coincidence?


Oh, it was almost certainly a coincidence. Ditto for BitFenix. In fact, I'm pretty sure CaseLabs was using Nova publicly before we had started, anyway.

But it doesn't really matter. Out of respect for them, and because we want to avoid any confusion, changing the name was/is the right thing to do. Plus, I quite like the name we've selected - IMO, it's truer to ourselves and the case we've made.


----------



## Bitemarks and bloodstains

Thread cleaned.

Please keep all sales/potential sales talk out of this thread.


----------



## willemdoom

This is really random but I see you are in Durham, do you study there?


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RoostrC0gburn*
> 
> ...


They're just wanting to make sure that we don't pollute the forums with anything that could be construed as marketing. Which is understandable







Gotta moderate to keep the community healthy.

Anyway, we're looking into vendor or hardware rep statuses currently, as a way to answer questions and remain soundly within OCN's forum rules. So we'll see where that takes us


----------



## Darkapoc

So, just out of curiosity have you looked into speaker grill nubs(pull off panels)? I saw you say you couldn't really find any place other than Lian Li for production of them, something like this work? Just a thought, as I saw them on the Rosewill Legacy case I am (maybe not so much anymore xD ) looking at buying.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkapoc*
> 
> So, just out of curiosity have you looked into speaker grill nubs(pull off panels)? I saw you say you couldn't really find any place other than Lian Li for production of them, something like this work? Just a thought, as I saw them on the Rosewill Legacy case I am (maybe not so much anymore xD ) looking at buying.


We've spent a lot of time looking into solutions for securing the panels in place. The prototype uses traditional sliding hooks (and some screws), since they're simple and get the job done, but they can be finicky, so we wanted to figure out something better.

One of the problems in using such clips, though, has to do with durability - the clips Lian Li uses in their system, for example, are made of plastic. Both the socket and pin in what you've linked are plastic as well. And that means that, inevitably, they will break - and sometime break early or often, depending on how frequently the case is opened.

Anyway, we've elected to stick with 100% metal hardware in the case design, but I think people will be pretty happy with the system we've managed to incorporate, once we share it (and other changes) pretty soon.


----------



## SaltTheWalt

I don't mind sliding hooks + thumbscrews. It's not the fanciest design but it works and it's durable. Can't say I've ever had it fail on me.


----------



## SaltTheWalt

Also subbed and really looking forward to hopefully using this case in my next build.

Someone over at [H] posted pics of that new 700W Silverstone from Computex I assume:
http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041638190&postcount=70

980Ti SLI is going to require that PSU, but I wonder how long it'll take to hit the shelves. It's really amazing how much power can potentially be packed into this small case.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SaltTheWalt*
> 
> Someone over at [H] posted pics of that new 700W Silverstone from Computex I assume:
> http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1041638190&postcount=70


I posted those









Quote:


> The Silverstone 700W SFX-L power supply unit will be the most powerful small PSU on the planet *when it is officially released in the coming weeks*. KitGuru was given an exclusive first look at the newcomer on Thursday.


http://www.kitguru.net/components/power-supplies/anton-shilov/silverstone-debuts-ultra-small-700w-sfx-psu-with-80-plus-platinum-certificate/


----------



## SaltTheWalt

Oh wow, I didn't even bother to look at the username. Were you at Computex?


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SaltTheWalt*
> 
> Were you at Computex?


No, I've just been scouring the web for even the slightest mention of this PSU, along with the Asus and EVGA X99 mATX boards.

I'm tempted to go next year though because everyone seems content to post low-resolution pics that are underexposed, out of focus, at weird angles, etc.


----------



## RoostrC0gburn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *SaltTheWalt*
> 
> Were you at Computex?
> 
> 
> 
> No, I've just been scouring the web for even the slightest mention of this PSU, along with the Asus and EVGA X99 mATX boards.
> 
> I'm tempted to go next year though because everyone seems content to post low-resolution pics that are underexposed, out of focus, at weird angles, etc.
Click to expand...

that's actually a great idea. using your website and sff followers, you could start a review/news blog focused on small ff with a fairly strong following this year. some real coverage of computex next year could easily put you (or almost anyone for that matter) up there with linus, et al. i dont know of anyone else who is representing the small ff community very well...


----------



## willemdoom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RoostrC0gburn*
> 
> that's actually a great idea. using your website and sff followers, you could start a review/news blog focused on small ff with a fairly strong following this year. some real coverage of computex next year could easily put you (or almost anyone for that matter) up there with linus, et al. i dont know of anyone else who is representing the small ff community very well...


This, do it, would be amazing.


----------



## armourcore9brker

Come to CES and rub some elbows with the PR reps.










You just need to write some articles to get a press pass.

https://ces.itnint.com/CES15/regonline/Landing.aspx?stream=press


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *armourcore9brker*
> 
> You just need to write some articles to get a press pass.


Yeah! I've already written mini-reviews for various things, Gigabyte X99M Gaming 5, Noctua NH-L9x65, etc.
Quote:


> YouTube, Facebook, Twitter sites, personal blogs, communities, forums and user groups will not be considered for media accreditation.


Aw man









I'll see where I'm at in a few months, right now too busy with other stuff to consider starting my own news site on top of everything else.


----------



## armourcore9brker

You just need some other writers to call it a site and not a blog. I'm sure there are plenty of people here that obsess over SFF news.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *armourcore9brker*
> 
> You just need some other writers to call it a site and not a blog. I'm sure there are plenty of people here that obsess over SFF news.


Hmm...maybe it'd be doable if I can find other people to do the bulk of the writing. I don't mind the mini-reviews because I'm testing the hardware anyway but writing long articles isn't my thing.

It's amazing that as much as SFF has exploded in the last few years there isn't any good news sites for it. There's www.sff-tek.com (note, Google is warning the site may be hacked as of now) and www.mini-itx.com but neither of them update all that often.


----------



## catbuster

SFF community at H is pretty active







would be nice to have a news site for sff stuff, good luck aiboh


----------



## Aibohphobia

Heh, looks like some publications are already taking what I say as a source:

http://www.expreview.com/40916.html










Wait a minute, those numbers look familiar...


----------



## BBZZHH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> Heh, looks like some publications are already taking what I say as a source:
> 
> Wait a minute, those numbers look familiar...


Haha, pretty impressive. I'm guessing it's a 80mm fan? Also, any idea who the OEM is (is it actually a Seasonic unit)?


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BBZZHH*
> 
> Haha, pretty impressive. I'm guessing it's a 80mm fan? Also, any idea who the OEM is (is it actually a Seasonic unit)?


It's a 92mm fan. OEM is apparently High Power/Sirfa:
Quote:


> The original manufacturer (OEM) of the SF600 is High Power, which lately has made a strong entry into the SFX PSU market where up until now, Enhance Electronics dominated the field.


http://www.tomshardware.com/news/corsair-sf600-sfx-psu,29317.html


----------



## xJavontax

This case is so awesome. I want one. There's a lot to read through, can anyone tell me if there's any plans to bring it to the public?


----------



## catbuster

Wow 92 mm fan in sfx unit







just not sure how fast they gonna release it


----------



## Hammerdin

..


----------



## Nemesis429

is there any chance is could fit a second hdd?


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nemesis429*
> 
> Is there any chance to fit a second hdd?


Yep - the 3.5" bracket we'll be including will work with one or two HDD's, actually.


----------



## SaltTheWalt

Now with the removal of the top fan support are you guys shifting everything up, creating more space at the bottom of the case, or are you leaving the extra space at the top? I'm wondering because for a bottom 240 rad that extra space would probably help a lot.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Yes, some of that space was shifted to the bottom for better bottom mounted rad support.


----------



## SaltTheWalt

awesome


----------



## 3lfk1ng

The AMD conference could use some game showcases and performance numbers but it's great to see the AMD R9 Nano and Fury X.

It looks like this case will allow for some very powerful hardware with smaller form factors.


----------



## SaltTheWalt

We'll have to wait for power consumption benchmarks. For the nano I'd image the power consumption is fairly low, but the fury might use more than a SFX PSU can provide at the moment. For dual-gpu systems that is.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Yup, it'll all come done to power consumption. If it's 2x performance for the same power consumption as a 290X that doesn't help much for running CrossFire off SFX


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3lfk1ng*
> 
> The AMD conference could use some game showcases and performance numbers but it's great to see the AMD R9 Nano and Fury X.
> 
> It looks like this case will allow for some very powerful hardware with smaller form factors.


Indeed. Nova supports cards of virtually any length already, but with short cards you open up a lot of space up front for hardware - particularly with respect to hard drives, fans, and even radiators.

Current-gen AMD-based cards are bulky, run hot, and consume a lot of power, so it's really great to see them pivot and give SFF some attention. Extreme-performance rigs are potentially a lot more doable in Nova on the AMD side of things now.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SaltTheWalt*
> 
> We'll have to wait for power consumption benchmarks. For the nano I'd image the power consumption is fairly low, but the fury might use more than a SFX PSU can provide at the moment. For dual-gpu systems that is.


That's the big question mark at this point. They seemed to be claiming around a 2x perf-per-watt improvement, but how they distribute that (increased performance versus lower power consumption) is unsaid, and that ignores any other improvements (such as additional die size).

At the very least, I'm optimistic that it will lead in price-performance, and be serviceable in most SFF solutions. That's a heck of a lot better than what you could buy yesterday.

(Also, with a 700W platinum SFX-L PSU on the horizon, I'd be flat-out impressed if AMD could make a card that consumed more in a dual-GPU configuration. You'd need a TDP of around 300W to pull that off







)


----------



## 3lfk1ng

Luckily, the FuryX2 only uses two 8-Pin PCIe connectors just like the FuryX so it sounds like they won't be too power hungry this time around.

Lisa Su says that the R9 Nano will actually be more powerful than the r9-290X through just a single 8-pin PCIe (source). The Nano uses up just 175watts at load so AMD has definitely been focusing on efficiency with this lineup.

Overall, what they have managed to do with the board length is refreshing to see after all these years.

Once Nvidia adopts HBM, I'm sure we'll start to see a similar form-factor with the green camp.


----------



## francisco9751

i want this case, how long must I wait?


----------



## willemdoom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *francisco9751*
> 
> i want this case, how long must I wait?


All the posts about selling this case where deleted because it is against the forum rules so keep an eye on their site: http://www.kimeraindustries.com/


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willemdoom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *francisco9751*
> 
> i want this case, how long must I wait?
> 
> 
> 
> keep an eye on their site
Click to expand...

We're also fairly active (and share lots of information) on our forum threads on SFF Forum, as well as HardForum (where Aiboh first started sharing his work, actually). So I'd encourage you to follow us there as well, if you want to keep tabs









In a matter of weeks we'll have lots of new stuff and updates to share regarding our work, but those places (as well as our website) will be the best resources for staying up-to-date in general.


----------



## SaltTheWalt

Do you think the Silverstone 700w will have enough juice to power two Fury Xs in crossfire? Looks like they have a tdp of 275w

http://www.legitreviews.com/amd-radeon-r9-fury-x-complete-teardown_166851


----------



## Aibohphobia

It's too early to say. TDP doesn't equal power consumption so we'll have to wait for reviews.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SaltTheWalt*
> 
> Do you think the Silverstone 700w will have enough juice to power two Fury Xs in crossfire?


Do you have a particular build in mind? I'm curious - with all the new hardware that's come out or been announced in the past month or two, it's been interesting to see what people are envisioning that could be installed in Nova


----------



## ccRicers

I'd play it safe and SLI a pair of GTX 970's, still mighty powerful for a SFX supply...


----------



## SaltTheWalt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PlayfulPhoenix*
> 
> Do you have a particular build in mind? I'm curious - with all the new hardware that's come out or been announced in the past month or two, it's been interesting to see what people are envisioning that could be installed in Nova


I'm thinking an eventual skylake build with that 700w silverstone and either 2x 980Tis or possibly 2 furys depending on their power and performance benchmarks.


----------



## pe4nut666

your build is on pc gamer build of the week

http://www.pcgamer.com/build-of-the-week-nova-custom-designed-170l-5-slot-matx-case/


----------



## Aibohphobia

Thanks for the heads up! I had talked to the reporter two weeks ago and forgot all about it


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrewWyber*
> 
> I travel a lot and this would be perfect.


I'd suggest checking out our website and blog (Google "Kimera Industries"), and subscribing to our newsletter, if you want more updates on Nova and our work.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willemdoom*
> 
> ...announcements coming in a few weeks and real production will take even longer then that.


It's fine for people to ask questions, sometimes digging through a long thread isn't something people have time for









In any case, time to us producing any units of the final design is in the order of some few months (which makes sense when you consider all the steps that have to be taken before we can launch production). Time to everything before that - announcements notwithstanding - is in the order of some few weeks.

Can't say too much more than that until we're ready, but once we are, we'll have a lot to say!


----------



## willemdoom

2 of these in the Nova....


----------



## francisco9751

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *willemdoom*
> 
> 
> 2 of these in the Nova....


with a 5960X and a sfx-l 700W


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *francisco9751*
> 
> with a 5960X and a sfx-l 700W


Dual Fury X with the 700W SFX-L will be risky because at gaming loads it may work but the cards max out at 432W DC each: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_Fury_X/29.html


----------



## willemdoom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> Dual Fury X with the 700W SFX-L will be risky because at gaming loads it may work but the cards max out at 432W DC each: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_Fury_X/29.html


Well another reason for the atx power supply support. But lets be honest on of those will look amazing in an NCASE or NOVA


----------



## SaltTheWalt

Crazy how it's only covers a single pci slot with that waterblock. Imagine 3x crossfire on a microatx board.


----------



## EpicOtis13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SaltTheWalt*
> 
> Crazy how it's only covers a single pci slot with that waterblock. Imagine 3x crossfire on a microatx board.


Shhh, thats the build I am currently planning. Don't give any of the magician modders ideas.


----------



## willemdoom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EpicOtis13*
> 
> Shhh, thats the build I am currently planning. Don't give any of the magician modders ideas.


Ahh you guys beat me to it, this was in my mind at school all day...


----------



## willemdoom

Would these fit with the 120 conversion?


----------



## Aibohphobia

They should, though it'll be a tight fit on the front with a SFX-L PSU.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Just a quick update, as we've been pretty quiet as of late - Right now we're at the point where we're awaiting some revised quotes and additional information from potential manufacturers and suppliers. We do have initial line-item quotes for parts and production and such, but we know there's opportunity to lower the manufacturer's costs, so we're looking at such optimizations currently.

Cross-post from HF:
Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Darth Bobo;1041717245*
> Any news? It's been a wee bit of time since we have heard from you?
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia;1041717468*
> Nothing new. Waiting on an alternate quote to see if we can bring the cost down.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There have also been a few specific parts that have caused a lot of delay, in terms of securing quotes and getting our manufacturing/fulfillment pipeline set up. It's been a tad frustrating for us since we had an initial sense of the time it would take to get quotes, but basically blew right through that simply because a few third parties were slow to respond (or just outright not very receptive)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose we were naive in expecting to hit our initial time deadline for that.
> 
> Anyway, since we've finished organizing and setting up almost everything else (that we can, at least), we're stuck in a bit of a holding pattern until we get concrete numbers and other information that will let us lock everything down. But there has been progress, and hard-fought at that. Plus, certain ideas and other things we were unsure about feasibility-wise have since been vindicated by the input we've received from manufacturing, so we've been pretty excited about that.
> 
> TLDR: If you're familiar with that feeling where you've been at a 4-way intersection, stuck at a red light for a long time, and you just _know_ that the green light is about to come on, but it stubbornly refuses to do so... That's how it's felt like for the past ~20 days, trying to secure quotes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But the extra time has at least let us square away other things, so it's at least been productive.
Click to expand...


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Some updates for you all today: I'm happy to share that we've signed on with a manufacturer, and greenlit them to make pre-production test units of our final design!







This will culminate in a few cases straight off the manufacturing line, that will more or less represent what Nova will look like in production. It's one of the most important (and final) preparatory steps to make, and it's what we've been waiting to begin for some time now.

Beyond giving us an opportunity to test and verify the design and its functionality (as well as perform various quality and other checks), this work also gives our manufacturer the opportunity to actually make the case, and look for places to simplify the design or streamline how they'll produce Nova at scale.

---

The other thing I wanted to mention is that we're going to start posting fewer updates, and checking in less frequently, to our OCN thread, as we're pushing to simplify how we get updates out to you all. Although it's a total bummer to do so, we're spread really thin updating across four forums (!), Reddit, and the website, and we're needing to concentrate our efforts on the communities where we've seen the most traffic.

In addition, and being completely honest with you all, there's been a lot of ambiguity surrounding the OCN forum rules, our freedom to post here, and what we (and others) can and can't talk about. We've tried communicating with mods and people in the know, but contact has been minimal, and we haven't heard back from anyone of authority (after asking for clarification on things) for well over a month at this point. As a place to communicate with you all, it's just not a tenable situation for us, and we really aren't comfortable having our dialogue be censored in the way that it has been. At a minimum, it's not fair for you all, since we're unable to communicate directly towards many of the questions and comments you all have.

Anyway, we're incredibly humbled and appreciate of the feedback, questions, comments, and support you all have given, and we'd encourage you to visit our threads on other forums to stay up-to-date with the latest from us. I hope you can understand where we're at, and I can't wait to blow you all away with the work we've been doing behind the scenes


----------



## SaltTheWalt

That's a bummer with OCN. Is there a specific reddit that you guys post in, or which forum is the best to keep up to date with?


----------



## rgrwng

best wishes for a streamlined manufacturing experience.


----------



## Spotswood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PlayfulPhoenix*
> 
> ...
> 
> In addition, and being completely honest with you all, there's been a lot of ambiguity surrounding the OCN forum rules, our freedom to post here, and what we (and others) can and can't talk about. We've tried communicating with mods and people in the know, but contact has been minimal, and we haven't heard back from anyone of authority (after asking for clarification on things) for well over a month at this point. As a place to communicate with you all, it's just not a tenable situation for us, and we really aren't comfortable having our dialogue be censored in the way that it has been. At a minimum, it's not fair for you all, since we're unable to communicate directly towards many of the questions and comments you all have.
> 
> ...


This is yet another example of how OCN forces small startups off onto other forums. I've been pushing for an update to the Artisan program here that would help foster small companies (and thus enriching the community, etc,), but I'm definitely not holding my breath.


----------



## catbuster

http://www.overclock.net/t/342022/overclock-net-artisan-program/100#post_24232326

Maybe nova can happen on OCN after all


----------



## Insan1tyOne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *S[quote name=[/B]
> http://www.overclock.net/t/342022/overclock-net-artisan-program/100#post_24232326
> 
> Maybe nova can happen on OCN after all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


*

Yay! I hope that Nova can return and thrive here on OCN.









- Insan1tyOne*


----------



## SaltTheWalt

That's great news. I'm glad to see the OCN leadership making the necessary changes to facilitate this sort of content. It's something that really should be encouraged on a site like this.


----------



## Aibohphobia

It's good news for custom case projects but we'll still be reducing attention here simply due to time constraints. Both PlayfulPhoenix and I have gotten busier so keeping up with multiple forums is too much.


----------



## Deeptek

Im highly interested in this. Would love to be able to support your vision of this chassis.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deeptek*
> 
> Im highly interested in this. Would love to be able to support your vision of this chassis.


I'd highly encourage you to check out our threads on HardForum and (particularly) SFF Forum if you'd like to stay tuned to our latest updates! If you do a web search for "Kimera Industries", you'll also pull up pertinent info









Anyway, I figured I could share this aside since I found it very interesting: on HF, I joked that we would only be manufacturing Nova in beige - only to have a bunch of people say that they actually _like_ the idea of a "retro" version of the case.

I countered by making a "Nostalgia Edition" of the KI logo:



Which then expanded to a few more versions, all of which are inspired by logos and styles used by real computer companies in the 1980s (see if you can figure out all three







):





Of course, we won't _actually_ be doing a beige version (at least for now), but it was fun to re-imagine our own insignia in that early era of computing.


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

The first cut of our final design...

(Moving forward, illustrated updates will be hosted on SFF Forum!)


----------



## TheoLas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> If we have front audio it'll be done right, with EMI filtering per the Intel spec and high-quality connectors.


How would you do EMI filtering for front panel audio? What are considered "High quality connectors" for this application? Can you link to the Intel specsheet? I'm just trying to fix my front panel audio problems.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Front audio spec is on page 25: http://www.formfactors.org/developer%5Cspecs%5Ca2928604.pdf

Prototypes will just have panel mount front audio without any fancy filtering. I'm still considering it for production but at this point I'm not sure how that will turn out. I'll test the prototypes and see if it picks up any interference


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

A few more illustrated updates:

8/17 - Hard Pressed: An Amada laser-punch combination machine begins work on the main frame section.

8/19 - Carved Feet: A hardened blade - cooled with oil - cuts away at a cylinder of aluminum on a lathe, in order to create custom-sized case feet.

I've also put a post on the Kimera Industries blog that we'll continuously update with photos from our manufacturer, as they continue to work on the final prototype!


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Hey all, if you haven't been following our illustrated updates on other communities (or our blog), I'd encourage you to do so since we're really lucky to have such a steady stream of great images coming in









To wit, and to illustrate, I figured I would share a quick timelapse video of an Amada laser-punch machine, working away at a sheet of metal. That particular piece is actually in the early stages of becoming internal frames for the final Nova prototypes.


----------



## Aibohphobia

So I have an idea of what to test fit, what kind of builds are you guys planning on doing in the case?


----------



## EpicOtis13

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> So I have an idea of what to test fit, what kind of builds are you guys planning on doing in the case?


Gigabyte x99m Gaming 5 with a 5930k and three r9 290's with waterblock all watercooled, with an external rad connected by QDCs


----------



## Aibohphobia

Wow, that's ambitious









That should work, only thing is you'll have to route the tubes through one of the expansion slots. There are holes but they're built into the rear 92mm fan plate, which you'll have to swap with the ATX PSU plate.

Also, there's only about 45mm between the top of the CPU and the ATX PSU.


----------



## francisco9751

I5 4670K + MSI 290X 8GB (the rig in my signature), waiting the new GPU AMD 16nm, then i will fit the new flagship AMD with custom liquid build, with a radiator 240x60 on the bottom( or 240x45 if the 60mm don't fit)

something like this


----------



## Aibohphobia

With a single blocked GPU, a 60mm rad + 25mm fan should fit.


----------



## francisco9751

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> With a single blocked GPU, a 60mm rad + 25mm fan should fit.


wonderfull


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Hey all, I figured I could share some photos at the tail end of the manufacturing process for the prototypes!

In this picture, we have some case parts on racks, already powder coated, and ready to go into the kiln. This is actually one of the final steps in the process, and takes place just before assembly.



And here you have the controls for the kiln. The top modules control temperature, which is held very steady as the paint is cured. Note that the powder coatings themselves are dry as they enter the oven, and dry as they come out, however - the temperature is what causes it (the powder) to chemically react, and bind temporarily, creating the coating.




Pretty exciting stuff!


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Delivery!


----------



## greywarden

What a tease lol


----------



## catbuster

Unpack it already, should really go to sff forums i bet they have more pics on there


----------



## willemdoom

These teases make me both happy and angry...


----------



## SaltTheWalt

guys it's not a tease that is the case. it's cardboard so eco friendly


----------



## Aibohphobia

Haha, sorry to be such a tease. We timed things poorly and ran out of pics before we're ready to show off the case, so you'll have to hang tight and wait a bit longer while we finalize a few things


----------



## francisco9751

any news??


----------



## Aibohphobia

Nothing yet, we're still waiting on a few things.


----------



## francisco9751

today Jonsbo Announces the UMX3, that is like the nova...
http://www.techpowerup.com/217064/jonsbo-announces-the-umx3-micro-atx-chassis.html


----------



## Aibohphobia

It has a similar layout, but like most Jonsbo cases, it has a severe shortage of ventilation.

I like the glass side though.


----------



## ccRicers

The UMX3 has been on Jonsbo's website for a while, but it hasn't officially been on sale yet. At least it's better than the C3's layout.


----------



## Lutfij

Just finished reading up on the updates since 6 months ago







can't say I'm disappointed though









Good job!


----------



## francisco9751

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> It has a similar layout, but like most Jonsbo cases, it has a severe shortage of ventilation.
> 
> I like the glass side though.


any news abouth the nova?


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *francisco9751*
> 
> any news abouth the nova?


We're still waiting. Both PlayfulPhoenix and I have been busy lately. Things are looking better but there's still a few details to nail down.


----------



## lifeisabsurd

Just curious, if one were to rear mount an atx power supply to this case, how much clearance would it allow for the cpu cooler?


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lifeisabsurd*
> 
> Just curious, if one were to rear mount an atx power supply to this case, how much clearance would it allow for the cpu cooler?


About 46mm from the top of a socket 2011 CPU to the ATX PSU.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Keeping in mind that ATX PSUs limit the CPU heatsink clearance to ~45mm, what kind of PSU are you all planning to use?

http://strawpoll.me/5931693


----------



## lifeisabsurd

I might go with an atx PSU unless the newer sfx-l PSUs turn out to be a bit quieter. I'd imagine the only real option for CPU cooler would be the nh-l9i and Silverstone ar05, though?


----------



## Aibohphobia

You could use something like the NH-L9i but that leaves only about 8-9mm between the heatsink and the PSU. Personally I don't find that slim Noctua all that quiet even as a case fan, so with it crammed in that tight space on any higher-end CPU would probably negate any noise reduction by going with an ATX PSU over a SFX/SFX-L unit.

ATX support was added because some people wanted it, and it fits. But it's really intended to be used in combination with water cooling, though that has similar issues since tall blocks won't fit.


----------



## lifeisabsurd

Oh, right! I didn't even think of water cooling. If I were to use an AIO cooler and an ATX PSU, would the PSU be the only exhaust for the case?


----------



## Aibohphobia

Maybe? You could always flip the front or bottom fans around to serve as exhaust. Despite popular belief, the rear/top doesn't have to be the exhaust. People have tested various airflow configurations on the NCASE M1 and they've found that on GPUs with large aftermarket air coolers, it's actually more effective to have the bottom fans as exhaust for example.

I'd actually have the PSU intake from the outside and just make sure there's plenty of positive pressure. That's the configuration I normally run (though with a SFX-L at the front) and it works just fine with no exhaust fans.


----------



## nod7

Hi Aibohphobia,
I just got back from Frys where I bought items for this case you have designed. I'm concerned the 2 video cards I bought are too tall to fit into the case though. The model of cards is the ASUS GeForce GTX 980 STRIX-GTX980-DC2OC-4GD5 4GB cards ( http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121905 ).

The spec's page on Newegg's website claims they are 5.30" tall but, I measured them from the anchor point of the bracket to the tallest part of the card which, is a heat pipe that sticks out and I came up with 6.5" or 165.1mm. According to the posted size of the case, that only leaves 4.9mm.

The picture you posted here shows a video card that looks very similar to the cards I bought (if you removed the fans and shroud). Can you tell me if these will fit or should I take them back to Fry's and get something else?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> Small status update


I also bought this RAM Kit; http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220688 But, noticed that the heat sinks rise above the actual RAM chips about 1/2 inch. In the picture, the processor radiator folds in and out (which is how I want to do mine when I buy your case), I'm concerned that the heat sinks on the RAM I bought are too tall and will not let the radiator fold in. Is this the case? Should I also go for a different RAM kit?

Thanks for answering these two questions.

-nod7


----------



## Aibohphobia

That's annoying, the specs on that card according to the ASUS site are 134.4mm (I guess measured from the bottom of the PCB to the top of the shroud).

The card in that picture is the ASUS GTX 780 DirectCU II and it fits with a few mm to spare. Comparing pics of the two cards and checking your dimensions against the 3D model, it may fit but the heatpipe would be touching the side panel.

The RAM should be ok, the heatspreaders on those sticks aren't really tall. So a thick rad and single fan should clear them. The tubing may press on them though but that's hard to say without actually testing it.


----------



## Wanou

Just catch up on the late. Great work.


----------



## BIackout

Absolutely loving this case... excellent incorporation of the end user's feedback. Any idea of when we can put in an order?


----------



## willemdoom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BIackout*
> 
> Absolutely loving this case... excellent incorporation of the end user's feedback. Any idea of when we can put in an order?


probably first quarter of next year, is what they said.


----------



## BIackout

Perfect, just in time for my new Z170 build! Thanks for the info!


----------



## PlayfulPhoenix

Wait no more, friends.



On February 11th, Project Nova emerges from the shadows as we unveil the final name, specifications, features, and crowdfunding date.


----------



## BIackout

Hey everyone, go check this case out at http://www.kimeraindustries.com/cerberus/#cerberus-features and at https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/kimera-industries-cerberus-the-18l-matx-usa-made-enclosure.454/!!!


----------



## Deeptek

I'm very excited about this. As a water cooling enthusiast I see a lot of barriers that CAN be overcome with some modding.

I'm wondering how I can fit two 240's. I would need to use the EK AIO since I will have 2 GPU's and my CPU on water. One 240 rad isn't sufficient cooling for the 3 components with moderate to high overclocks.

I think i'm going to buy this just to have some fun and have a go at making it work.


----------



## Aibohphobia

Oops, thought I had responded to you but I didn't.

Here's an example of dual 240mm Alphacool ST30:










So the problem is that the tubes for the bottom rad interfere with the bottom fan of the front rad.

The Predator is huge though and unless the video cards are short there isn't room for it and dual GPUs, let alone another 240mm rad. A build like that is more suited to Project mATX: www.overclock.net/t/1580191/project-matx-artisan-page-cases-shipping/


----------



## Deeptek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> Oops, thought I had responded to you but I didn't.
> 
> Here's an example of dual 240mm Alphacool ST30:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the problem is that the tubes for the bottom rad interfere with the bottom fan of the front rad.
> 
> The Predator is huge though and unless the video cards are short there isn't room for it and dual GPUs, let alone another 240mm rad. A build like that is more suited to Project mATX: www.overclock.net/t/1580191/project-matx-artisan-page-cases-shipping/


Yea mATX would house it better. Yours just looks better and has the handle :X


----------



## Jeffinslaw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deeptek*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Aibohphobia*
> 
> Oops, thought I had responded to you but I didn't.
> 
> Here's an example of dual 240mm Alphacool ST30:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So the problem is that the tubes for the bottom rad interfere with the bottom fan of the front rad.
> 
> The Predator is huge though and unless the video cards are short there isn't room for it and dual GPUs, let alone another 240mm rad. A build like that is more suited to Project mATX: www.overclock.net/t/1580191/project-matx-artisan-page-cases-shipping/
> 
> 
> 
> Yea mATX would house it better. Yours just looks better and has the handle :X
Click to expand...

Ouch


----------



## Deeptek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffinslaw*
> 
> Ouch


Youre is a beauty Jeff! I like the handle and side window more on this one, that is all! Yours is more practical for enthusiasts! And TBH, when I buy one it will be yours for that reason alone now that I know this!


----------



## Jeffinslaw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deeptek*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Jeffinslaw*
> 
> Ouch
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Youre is a beauty Jeff! I like the handle and side window more on this one, that is all! Yours is more practical for enthusiasts! And TBH, when I buy one it will be yours for that reason alone now that I know this!
Click to expand...

All is good







Aibohphobia did an amazing job on his case. Look forward to seeing your name on the list! Again


----------



## MunneY

I can't wait to get my hands on this....

You guys are doing amazing things!


----------



## Terse

Hope the crowdfunding goes well, I have my money in for it already.


----------



## PotatoMaster

I had my fingers crossed from the beginning that they would have an enthusiast edition available with a full window (assuming it would be built water cooled and wouldn't require vents in that area) but sadly the company emailed me back and said no







...I shed a tear shortly after. I don't mind modding but having it already done would have been a huge plus in my book.


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PotatoMaster*
> 
> I had my fingers crossed from the beginning that they would have an enthusiast edition available with a full window (assuming it would be built water cooled and wouldn't require vents in that area) but sadly the company emailed me back and said no
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...I shed a tear shortly after. I don't mind modding but having it already done would have been a huge plus in my book.


It has a half window.


----------



## PotatoMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MunneY*
> 
> It has a half window.


Yes I am aware. I was talking about a "full" windowed side panel.


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PotatoMaster*
> 
> Yes I am aware. I was talking about a "full" windowed side panel.


yeah I get that, but the whole top half is CPU block and PSU... but hey! Do you!


----------



## PotatoMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MunneY*
> 
> yeah I get that, but the whole top half is CPU block and PSU... but hey! Do you!










personal preference I suppose! I'm excited to see what people come up with.


----------



## Supercluster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PotatoMaster*
> 
> Yes I am aware. I was talking about a "full" windowed side panel.


Yes, however, what you're talking about goes against the design of the case. The top portion of the side panel *needs* to be perforated no matter the configuration since either a radiator, or an air cooler or a PSU has to draw fresh air from somewhere. I personally like the half-windowed design. It is rare and unique enough, plus there is sound engineering behind it. (i.e. it was not a simple aesthetic decision)


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Supercluster*
> 
> Yes, however, what you're talking about goes against the design of the case. The top portion of the side panel *needs* to be perforated no matter the configuration since either a radiator, or an air cooler or a PSU has to draw fresh air from somewhere. I personally like the half-windowed design. It is rare and unique enough, plus there is sound engineering behind it. (i.e. it was not a simple aesthetic decision)


Thats kinda what I was getting at buy my brains not all there.

I can't wait to get my hands on mine... I've got MASSIVE plans for it.


----------



## PotatoMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Supercluster*
> 
> Yes, however, what you're talking about goes against the design of the case. The top portion of the side panel *needs* to be perforated no matter the configuration since either a radiator, or an air cooler or a PSU has to draw fresh air from somewhere. I personally like the half-windowed design. It is rare and unique enough, plus there is sound engineering behind it. (i.e. it was not a simple aesthetic decision)


I see what your saying. Some is fact, some is like I stated in an earlier post, am opinion. An enthusiast driven model of the case would literally cater to the enthusiast which I'm sure would have no issue working around any air flow issues as it can still pull from the bottom and exhaust from the rear . However, as discussed earlier, that's just MY personal opinion so to each his own.


----------



## Jeffinslaw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PotatoMaster*
> 
> I had my fingers crossed from the beginning that they would have an enthusiast edition available with a full window (assuming it would be built water cooled and wouldn't require vents in that area) but sadly the company emailed me back and said no
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...I shed a tear shortly after. I don't mind modding but having it already done would have been a huge plus in my book.


Perhaps you would be interested in checking out my custom designed case I'm selling? It is designed around water cooling (where as it's more difficult in this case). I also offer FULL acrylic side panels







might be worth a look.

Link is in the sig.

-Jeffinslaw


----------



## PotatoMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MunneY*
> 
> Thats kinda what I was getting at buy my brains not all there.
> 
> I can't wait to get my hands on mine... I've got MASSIVE plans for it.


Looking forward to what you've got cookin bud!


----------



## PotatoMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffinslaw*
> 
> Perhaps you would be interested in checking out my custom designed case I'm selling? It is designed around water cooling (where as it's more difficult in this case). I also offer FULL acrylic side panels
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> might be worth a look.
> 
> Link is in the sig.
> 
> -Jeffinslaw


I love your case and whats possible with it. I'm just waiting and have been to see exactly how it looks with the psu mounted where it is and how efficient the cable management would be. Plus made in the good ol' USA is a plus for me


----------



## Supercluster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MunneY*
> 
> Thats kinda what I was getting at buy my brains not all there.
> 
> I can't wait to get my hands on mine... I've got MASSIVE plans for it.


You can rest assured that I'll be following that log







.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PotatoMaster*
> 
> I see what your saying. Some is fact, some is like I stated in an earlier post, am opinion. An enthusiast driven model of the case would literally cater to the enthusiast which I'm sure would have no issue working around any air flow issues as it can still pull from the bottom and exhaust from the rear . However, as discussed earlier, that's just MY personal opinion so to each his own.


While I agree with you to a certain extent(mostly actually), it can be worked around, (here comes the opinion part again) however, for me the trade-off in performance (and perhaps more importantly noise) would be far too great using enthusiast grade hardware.

In the end, yes- beauty (and performance?) is usually in the eye of the beholder.


----------



## PotatoMaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Supercluster*
> 
> You can rest assured that I'll be following that log
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> While I agree with you to a certain extent(mostly actually), it can be worked around, (here comes the opinion part again) however, for me the trade-off in performance (and perhaps more importantly noise) would be far too great using enthusiast grade hardware.
> 
> In the end, yes- beauty (and performance?) is usually in the eye of the beholder.


Noted...validated...I like it.


----------



## jsco

really, really hope this kickstarter goes through. this is such a well designed case from every perspective. i am planning a pascal/broadwell-e build pushed as hard as possible on air cooling only, so it can be light and portable and carry-on luggage friendly. no other case comes close.


----------



## primordialpouch

Hey Jeffinslaw,
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jeffinslaw*
> 
> Perhaps you would be interested in checking out my custom designed case I'm selling? It is designed around water cooling (where as it's more difficult in this case). I also offer FULL acrylic side panels
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> might be worth a look.
> 
> Link is in the sig.
> 
> -Jeffinslaw


Are you still putting in orders for these cases? Honestly I was under the impression you had stopped taking orders for these.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsco*
> 
> really, really hope this kickstarter goes through. this is such a well designed case from every perspective. i am planning a pascal/broadwell-e build pushed as hard as possible on air cooling only, so it can be light and portable and carry-on luggage friendly. no other case comes close.


Someone asked the question on HardForum about what the option was if the Kickstarter did not get funded and he mentioned that we may all still be able to get our hands on one, but it just may be a little more expensive. For me I think the extra $$$ will be worth it to get my hands on this bad boy


----------



## Aibohphobia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *primordialpouch*
> 
> Hey Jeffinslaw,
> Are you still putting in orders for these cases? Honestly I was under the impression you had stopped taking orders for these.


Orders are still open for Project mATX: http://www.overclock.net/t/1580191/project-matx-artisan-page-cases-shipping


----------



## Jeffinslaw

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *primordialpouch*
> 
> Hey Jeffinslaw,
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Jeffinslaw*
> 
> Perhaps you would be interested in checking out my custom designed case I'm selling? It is designed around water cooling (where as it's more difficult in this case). I also offer FULL acrylic side panels
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> might be worth a look.
> 
> Link is in the sig.
> 
> -Jeffinslaw
> 
> 
> 
> Are you still putting in orders for these cases? Honestly I was under the impression you had stopped taking orders for these.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *jsco*
> 
> really, really hope this kickstarter goes through. this is such a well designed case from every perspective. i am planning a pascal/broadwell-e build pushed as hard as possible on air cooling only, so it can be light and portable and carry-on luggage friendly. no other case comes close.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Someone asked the question on HardForum about what the option was if the Kickstarter did not get funded and he mentioned that we may all still be able to get our hands on one, but it just may be a little more expensive. For me I think the extra $$$ will be worth it to get my hands on this bad boy
Click to expand...

Still taking orders! I'll have to review why people think I'm not taking orders... I haven't indicated anything saying I'm not... hmm...

-Jeffinslaw


----------

