# The Truthful Mouse Guide



## lewis6194

*The Truthful Mouse Guide*
I know that there is a CS:S Mouse Optimization Guide already stickied in the forum but I decided to make my own mouse guide because I felt that there were simply a few things left unsaid/misunderstood.

*Content*
1.Mouse DPI/CPI
2.Windows Pointer Speed
3.Mouse Acceleration
4.How accurate is my mouse?
5.Perfect Control Speed/Malfunction Speed
6.Optical vs Laser
7.Wired vs Wireless
8.Which mouse should I get?/Which mouse is the best?
9.Where can I find more truthful review/information about gaming mice?

*1.Mouse DPI/CPI*
DPI/CPI refers to dots per inches or counts per inches. It refers to the sensitivity of your mouse. However a very common misunderstanding about it is that DPI/CPI is a benchmark for how accurate your mouse is.
This is wrong! DPI/CPI is just the distance your mouse cursor moves in relation to the distance your mouse moves in real life. So for example, a mouse with higher sensitivity moves 3 pixels/cm whereas a mouse with lower sensitivity moves 1 pixel/cm, BUT they both have the same accuracy. Many gaming companies take advantage of this misunderstanding and often boast about their high DPI/CPI mice when they are actually overpriced garbage. Some gaming companies even use interpolaration (using software to trick the sensor) to increase the DPI/CPI further even at the expense of the mouse's performance. DO NOT BELIEVE their marketing and fall for their traps. DPI/CPI HAS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH ACCURACY OF YOUR MOUSE. A good example is the microsoft intellimouse 3.0, a very popular choice among professional gamers, it only has 400 dpi but its a very good mouse nevertheless.









So how much DPI/CPI do you actually need?
Quoted From ESReality Mousescore 2007

Quote:


> Resolution (DPI)
> New gaming mice tend to be released with high DPI counts, but how much DPI is really needed to play games? Higher DPI obviously seems better. Like the steering wheel in a car you want continuous and smooth control over turning. The difference is that game graphics is made up of pixels, rather than the real world which has much more detail. At some point, having more DPI becomes unnecessary because the actual bottleneck is the screen. But how much DPI is enough?
> 
> I will use the example of playing an FPS game. If you are playing on a screen resolution of 1024 by 768 pixels, then we can roughly work out the number of pixels in a full horizontal rotation of 360 degrees. We multiply the number of pixels across the screen by 4 (since each screen is about 90 degrees viewing angle).
> 
> Pixels in 360 degrees = 1024 * 4 = 4096
> 
> Now we need to work out how far we want to move the mouse for a full rotation of 360 degrees. This distance changes depending on the gamer, because changing the game sensitivity changes how far you need to move the mouse for the same effect. By dividing the total number of pixels by the total distance (in inches), we get a rough idea of how much DPI is useful.
> 
> High Sens: 360 degrees in 0.1 m (4"), roughly 1000 DPI needed
> 
> Medium Sens: 360 degrees in 0.25 m (10"), roughly 400 DPI needed
> 
> Low Sens: 360 degrees in 0.50 m (20"), roughly 200 DPI needed
> 
> While 3D games don't need you to turn a whole pixel before the screen changes, this is a sensible way to work out when more DPI resolution stops being useful. What we find is that standard 400 DPI mice are ok if you have a low sensitivity, but there are times when more DPI can improve the game. If you have a High Sens and a huge 2560 x 1600 panel to play on, our formula says that our ideal mouse resolution is a whopping 2500 DPI!


So unless your playing with an extremely high resolution (eg:1920x1080) and a high sensitivity, 1000 dpi should satisfy even high sens gamers.

Quoted by Skylit:

Quote:


> Not with larger resolutions and scalable FoV's.
> 
> At the quoted 4"/360 (high) sensitivity, standard 1920x1080 resolution, and a FoV of 90, estimated useful CPI is around ~1500. The twist is when you use weapons that dynamically change the FoV like a sniper scope, iron/red dot sights or anything else that messes with the natural view. I'm not completely sure, but I believe CoD's engine scales down to 40 FoV when you right click making the estimated useful CPI as high as ~4100 given the same resolution and sensitivity.
> 
> Quote:
> Originally Posted by injx
> CM/360 (360 / (y * d * w * s)) * 2.54 C
> Inches/360 60 / (y * d * w * s)
> CPI/DPI (pi * g) / (i * tan(f / 2))
> 
> Part of the reason why lower resolutions under 1024x768 are popular among the competitive gaming community.


*2.Windows Pointer Speed*
Another popular misunderstood topic.
In the CS:S Mouse Optimization Guide, it was claimed that windows pointer speed should be kept at 6/11 and mouse DPI at maximum and only change your sensitivity in game. This is not entirely true. In fact, there is actually hardly any difference that you probably wont notice it if you use 1800 dpi with 3/11 (0.25) windows pointer speed and 450 dpi with 6/11 pointer speed. In fact, many professional gamers with mice like the deathadder use settings like 1800 dpi, 3/11 pointer speed instead of 450 dpi , 6/11 pointer speed. If it really matters that much to you, you can use the MarkC Windows 7 Mouse fix to ensure you get a 1 to 1 mouse to pointer movement.

And here are the exact sensitivity values for each notch of the windows pointer speed.

1. 0.03125
2. 0.0625
3. 0.25
4. 0.5
5. 0.75
6. 1.
7. 1.5
8. 2.
9. 2.5
10. 3.
11. 3.5

*3.Mouse Acceleration*
Another highly controversial topic in my opinion. Some say that its impossible to get good with mouse acceleration because its inconsistent. Again this is not true, I think results speak for themselves. There have been professional players who played with mouse acceleration and won tournaments. In fact many professional quake players use mouse acceleration even till today. However with that said, most people would probably find it easier to play without mouse acceleration. I highly reccomend you trying out playing without mouse acceleration for a while (give yourself some time to get used to it), if you feel comfortable with it after a while, just carry on playing with mouse acceleration off, if not just change back.

How do I turn off mouse acceleration?
There are several mouse fixes such as the MarkC Windows 7 mouse fix (win 7 only) i mentioned earlier, Cheese mouse fix and CPL mouse fix.
Unfortuanately the mouse fix is unable to alter mouse acceleration in the mouse/sensor itself.
So how do I know if my mouse/sensor has acceleration? (Don't worry I will be covering that too)

*4.How accurate is my mouse?*
Obviously every gamer wants an accurate mouse to give him some advantage. But before i touch on this topic, I would like you to know and establish a difference between accuracy and precision. If you are unclear of the differences, please look at the picture below.









Unless you have a spoiled mouse, all mice are all *equally accurate*. BUT they all have *different precision* (think consistency not accuracy). So now you will probably be screaming at your computers "JUST TELL ME HOW GOOD IS MY MOUSE AND CUT THE HORSE****". But I had to make sure you know the clear difference between accuracy and precision so that will not be any misunderstandings.

*5.Perfect Control Speed/Malfunction Speed*
These technical terms basically measure how precise your mouse actually is. The higher the speeds the better.
Perfect control speed refers to the maximum speed at which your mouse tracks without any mouse acceleration.
Malfunction speed refers to the maximum speed at which your mouse tracks any movement. A good list of the perfect control/malfunction speeds of mice is the ESReality Mousescore 2007. One factor which might affect the perfect control speed/malfunction speed of the mouse is it's *polling rate*. Polling rate is the rate at which the mouse updates and sends information about its movements/positions. Most gaming mice allow you to adjust its polling rate in the drivers. But in case, you have a regular mouse or cant switch your polling rates with your drivers, there are a few programs which you can download to overclock your polling rate of the mouse manually. Whether your looking for information on how to overclock your mouse's polling rate or just get more detailed information about polling rates, the CS:S Mouse Optimization Guide got it pretty well covered.

Quoted from CS:S Mouse Optimization Guide:

Quote:


> 2.2 - Overclock your USB port.
> Can be risky and you need to be comfortable editing system files to perform this
> 
> Skip this section if your mouse reported well above 400hz by default in section 2.1.
> 
> One tricks that was tucked away up some sleeves until recently was how to change the USB polling rate to faster than the Windows default of 125hz. For all intents and purposes the default 125hz polling rate has a 8ms built in response time (lag) that cannot be overcome without changing the usbport.sys file. If you change the polling rate to 250hz your mouse response time drops to 4ms. At 500hz it drops to 2ms and 1000HZ it drops to 1ms. This is an obvious advantage in a gaming environment. Some Logitech and Microsoft mice also have a huge performance boost when you overclock the mouse port, because of an interface limit related to the 8-bit data bus. Specifically they are: Logitech's MX300, MX500 & MX510 and Microsoft's WMO, IE3.0 & Laser 6000. My recommendation is to set the USB rate to 500Hz for these mice. However increasing the reporting rate of any mouse will benefit from smoother tracking and faster response, however not all mice will dramatically reduce negative acceleration and improve perfect control like these do.
> 
> There are things to consider before changing anything in your system. First of all, you have probably been using the standard 125hz for quite awhile. You are used to it. You have learned to compensate for the delay however minute it is and if you change the polling rate of your system there will be an adjustment period. At first it may seem awkward but in my experience the change made the tracking in my mouse feel noticeably smoother. Turns were more natural and fluid. I have also heard some players did not like the change and some couldn't tell the difference. Your mileage may vary.
> 
> Also, not all mice are created equal. There should be no harm to your system or mouse if you attempt to change your system to a polling rate that the mouse does not support. There should be no system hangs or glitches if you perform the tweak correctly. However, all mice have relative limits and just because you set a mouse to 500hz does not mean it will report at that speed. Furthermore wireless mice cannot be overclocked since their limitation is not in the USB interface but in the wireless transmit speed so don't try. Raising USB report rate increases CPU utilization slightly, if your computer is very old you may notice a small FPS drop, use a slower setting.
> 
> Read or print my instructions and the readme files before starting! You won't have internet connectivity while in Safemode.
> 
> 1. The first thing you will want to do is download a mouse rate checking program, and see what your average mouse rate is using the USB interface. So you can compare to see if you have improved it.
> 2. Now if you have 32-bit Windows XP you can download the USB Mouserate Switcher below and extract it to your desktop. If you have 64-bit Windows XP you will have to do it a different way which I will cover after 32-bit Windows
> You can download it,
> here: http://hosted.filefront.com/antigen07
> here: http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/S...switcher.shtml
> and
> here: http://www.majorgeeks.com/USB_Mouser...her_d4469.html
> 3. Reboot your computer and before Windows begins to load rapidly press F8 on your keyboard to get a startup selection screen. If your computer loaded back up to regular windows try again and make sure you are not using a USB keyboard, either use a PS/2 adapter or turn on something called "USB Legacy Device Support" in your system BIOS. Finally if you still can't boot into safe mode you may just have to use MSConfig. Go Start>Run type "msconfig" without quotes, click the 'BOOT.ini' tab, just check "SAFEBOOT" and click Okay and say 'Yes restart my computer'.
> 4. If you get the the windows startup diagnostic screen use the arrow keys to select safemode, make sure to sign into an account with administrative privileges and click yes when it tells you Safemode is for diagnostic purposes.
> 5. Make a backup of your C:\Windows\system32\drivers\usbport.sys file!! You can rename it something like usbport.sys.old or usbport.sys.bak and just leave it in the folder. If you ever need to revert back to the old settings you can delete the patched files and rename your backup to usbport.sys.
> 6. After backing up that file and while still in safemode, run the usbmrs11.exe file and follow the instructions. I suggest you first try changing your USB polling rate from 125hz to 250hz. This change alone reduces mouse latency to 4ms. You can go higher later.
> 7. Now install the patch, then you will have to restart your computer for it to take effect, boot into safe mode again in case you need to revert back to the previous setting or want to keep pushing the port higher. To pick a setting above 250hz say 'no' to the prompt of setting it to 250hz, and then say 'yes' to the prompt of setting it to 500hz.
> 8. When your computer loads into safemode, run the 'Mouserate Checker' to see if the change has taken effect. If it did not, get out of safemode and do a good search for "USB port overclocking" or "USB Polling Rate" in Google you might find some more help. Make sure you followed all the instructions properly.
> 9. Repeat steps 6 through 8 until you've hit and tested the speed you want to stay at, I don't really recommend 1000hz since it's overkill and most mice can't obtain that speed. Best to pick a speed your mouse handles. If you used MSConfig to make your computer boot into safe mode, run msconfig again and then just click the circle by "Use Original BOOT.ini" and restart and you will have your computer back.
> 
> Here are some guidelines for knowing when you've overclocked far enough. First off, I don't recommend you use 1000hz it is twice the stress on your USB components for only a 1ms improvement in latency (vs 500hz). My G5 can be overclocked to 1000hz, but actually only averages at 620hz, which I can't tell the difference from 500hz, so I keep it on default. You want to raise your average mouserate by overclocking, so if you try 250hz and your average hz increases, and then try 500hz and it doesn't increase much, you've probably hit the limit of your device and should stick with 250hz.
> 
> Furthermore, you want the update rate to be stable, that is to say, does not constantly vary wildly between different values when you are moving the mouse quickly at speed in the box. If you overclock you mouse and you get a series of update rates in the box like 125,250,125,250,... it means your mouse does not like it's new settings. Not only that, this may make you play worse, because the response time on the mouse is not being consistent.
> 
> So just remember when you overclock:
> 
> 1. You want to see a real improvement in your average mouserate, not just setting it as high as possible if you are only going to average at 133hz for example.
> 2. You want the polling rate to be very constant or close to rock solid, it it's flipping between different rates every other polling or once every 3 pollings that is not good for the mouse, and not good for your gaming consistency. See my pictures for illustration of this tip.
> 3. Remember every USB component in your system is also connected at this speed, if you set your polling rates too high your mouse may do fine and pass the first two tips, but your USB sound card might start crackling or your printer might not print, be safe rather than sorry is the rule here.
> 
> (For example after several months of 500hz, my Steelsound 5Hv2 USB soundcard began to crackle from time to time. I am not sure if it would have started to do this anyways because it was a cheapy 15 dollar sound card, but it's worth noting. Just don't let this stop you from overclocking at all, because more than likely you wont have any problems.)
> 
> Okay, now if you have 64-bit windows and really want to do this, it will take a bit more skill and you have to thank me greatly for hosting the required .sys files. It took me about 3 hours of searching the internet just to find someone who had manually patched and would give me the unlocked usbport.sys drivers for 64-bit windows.
> 
> 1. Same as 32-bit step 1. Test your Mouserate.
> 2. Download the x64 Mouserate Switcher file from my ftp, this is the only place you can get this on the internet as far as I know. You can download it here: http://hosted.filefront.com/antigen07
> 3. Same as 32-bit step 2. Boot into Safe Mode.
> 4. Once you are in safemode make a backup of your usbport.sys you can find it in this folder:
> C:\Windows\system32\drivers\usbport.sys
> 5. Extract the 64-bit mouse rate folder you will see several more folders inside, named things like 1830_usbport.sys_250hz_4ms
> Inside each folder there is a modded usbport.sys file, select the rate you would like to overclock to and copy that usbport.sys
> 6. Head to your 'C\Windows\system32\drivers\' folder and paste your usbport.sys into there, don't overwrite your old one, just rename the backup one to 'usbport.sys.bak'. Also don't delete anything else in this folder or your computer will be broken very quickly.
> 7. Restart your computer into safemode again and use Mouserate Checker to see if your setting has taken effect.
> 8. Repeat steps 5 through 7 except now it's okay to overwrite the modified usbport.sys since you're replacing patched versions and not the original. Follow my tips above while you look for a stable setting that is good for your mouse (and other USB devices!).
> 9. Reboot into normal Windows XP and enjoy your new mouse.


*6.Optical vs Laser*
Probably the most misunderstood topic in my opinion (you can see people making these mistakes even in mouse reviews!). Many people assume that laser technology is superior to optical just because its newer. When in actual fact optical sensors are superior because they are more *reliable* and precise as they have higher perfect control speeds and higher malfunction speeds. I am pretty sure some random guy will come and scream "NO~~~ LASER MICE CAN TRACK ON GLASS, OPTCIAL CANT, LASER MICE FTW". Sure, your laser mouse tracks well on your window pane but simply fails on a cloth mousepad like the QCK. Anybody who owned a laser mouse would probably have noticed they are extremely particular about the surfaces they are on unlike optical. They tend to jitter alot on certain mousepads and just track randomly.

****, What should I do if I am using a laser mouse?!
Switch to an optical mouse and you will see an improvement. I will list some laser mice and suggest some optical replacements that are of similar shape(even cheaper as well).

Laser - Optical
Mamba/Habu - Deathadder/Microsoft IE3.0
G500/G5/Imperator - MX518
Xai - Microsoft IMO 1.1

Still, many people believe that laser mice are just as good as optical mice. So I decided to backup my claims with some statistics quoted from ESReality Mousescore 2007.

Quoted From ESReality Mousescore 2007:

Quote:


> I've also devised a second chart to show Bang4Buck as our friends at Hexus like to put it. This one shows how much Mousescore you get for each pound spent on the mouse. For mouse shopping on a budget, this is the chart for you since you can pick a really good value mouse from the list.










Quote:


> Laser vs Optical
> In almost every mouse review I've read, the writer makes the automatic assumption that laser mice must be better than optical. I imagine it's down to the perceived firepower of each word. No one ever destroyed an Imperial Cruiser with an LED gun. The performance benchmarks show that todays batch of laser mice can't keep up with the finely tuned optical ones. They do have slightly higher resolution, but not enough to make up for their poor performance at speed.


And an opinion quoted from Fatal1ty's website by himself:
Quote:


> I'm using Microsoft 1.1 SE and/or Microsoft 3.0... I used my Fatal1ty 2020 Laser Mouse for a while, but I use such low sensitivity, that lasers can't keep up with my fast flick shots... Using a laser mouse is cool, because it usually has really good DPI - which mine had, but for close combat it was not ideal... Only way to fix this, was to use a higher sensitivity or use Mouse Accel - either in some ways altered both my long range performance and consistency. With optical, it's very exact, especially when overclocked to 500hz... It's about as good as it gets... Don't listen to the hype right now about laser mice... You're going to end up sacrificing one thing or the other; it will either be incredible at close range or incredible at long range. You can't have both with that device. So I advise optical as the way to go right now till the bandwidth on laser mice is improved so it can keep up with your moves.


This is believeable because he says that *even though* the mice that were branded after him were using laser sensors.

And here's another benchmark done on the steelseries i2 mousepad (glass not cloth), so we would expect the laser mice to have the upper hand over optical right?








A mouse with good tracking should have a nice diagonal line with the pixels closely knit together until it reaches its perfect control speed. A good example is the deathadder. If you look closely, you can see the lines of the X8,G9x and mamba are not as smooth, the gaps between the pixels are also larger. This indicates that it is *less consistent* in its tracking.

Probably one of the more popular laser mice in the market at the moment - the Steelseries Xai which uses the Avago ADNS S9500 sensor. It has mouse acceleration present in the sensor itself *EVEN* at very low speeds which cannot be fixed from mouse fix (amount of acceleration varies between different mousepads). It has both positive and negative mouse acceleration as you can see from the graph.








Other popular mice that uses the same sensor and might be suffering from the same issue is the G500/G9x/G700

Quoted by Derp:
Quote:


> Think about the definition of perfect control speed, read the ESR review. Then realize that because the ADNS 9500 has acceleration even at slow speeds it has one of the WORST perfect control speeds. The only thing the ADNS 9500 excels at is a very high MALFUNCTION speed and even that is only possible on a hard surface. I doubt even the lowest sensitivity gamers need much over 2 m/s. Perfect control speed is much more important compared to malfunction speed as long as the malfunction speed is above 2 m/s IMO.


If you really insist on using a laser mouse, here are a few tips to get the best tracking out of it.
1.Get a hard mousepad (preferably it should be plain with lesser graphics)
2.Check that your mouse does not jitter on the mousepad (don't assume that all hard mousepads would do the job)
3.Keep sensor and mousepad away from dust (clean if you have to)

*7.Wired vs Wireless*
With wireless gaming mice like the mamba and g500 becoming more popular, I feel that this is a topic I should include too.
Long story short, get a wired mouse.
Afterall one of the main reasons why you spend so much of a gaming mouse is because its *more responsive*. So why buy a wireless gaming mouse to negate all the advantage you can get with a gaming mouse?
Not to mention that most wireless mice have laser engines (inferior to optical) and are more expensive/cumbersome (heavier with battaries/have to constantly recharge/change battaries).
No matter how gaming companies try to advertise about their "near 0 response time" wireless gaming mouse, fact is they *respond slower* than their wired counterparts. Again, I will suggest some replacements if you are interested in a particular wireless mouse.

Wireless - Wired
Mamba - Deathadder
G7 - MX518

*8.Which mouse should I get?/Which mouse is the best?*
Obviously there isn't a 1 mouse fit all, so I cant tell you which mouse to get. But what I can tell you is what to look for/ignore/avoid, so you can make a purchase that is truly worth the money and not fall into gaming companies marketing strategies.

What to look for:
1.Shape (Personal Preference)
2.Size (Personal Preference)
3.Weight (Personal Preference)
4.Build Quality
5.RMA Support
6.Perfect Control Speed/Malfunction Speed
7.Sensor Position(usualy preffered to be centre)
8.Price (DUHHHHH)

What to ignore:
1.DPI/CPI
2.Professional Gamers "commenting" about a certain product (more like boot-licking, obviously they get paid)
3.Reviews made by uncredible sources (sponsored/affilated) (again they will praise the product to the skies)
4.Gold-plated USB connector (a gold plated usb connector and a normal 1 have the same speed/connectivity because its the internal components (same) that actually affects speed/connectivity)

What to avoid:
1.Laser sensor
2.Wireless

*9.Where can I find more truthful review/information about gaming mice?*
ESReality Mousescore 2007
Ramla777 youtube videos
OCN Mouse Sensor Reference and Performance Sheet

Forgive my spelling/grammar mistakes. Have fun and feel free to ask me any questions/comment


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## Lord Xeb

Bold the title of each section so it is easier to read and use the list function when you list things to make it neater.


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## AMW1011

I was with you until the optical vs laser part. Yeah, laser mice can be inconsistent on some surfaces, but both an optical and a laser mouse on a good hard mouse pad will be equally good. You make it sound like optical mice are superior, which simply is not the case.


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## lewis6194

haha it wasnt really completed, didnt expect somebody come in and take a look so quickly.


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## AMW1011

Wow and you go on to say wireless mice are less consistent than a wired mouse. This is another commonly held misconception. A good wireless mouse (G700/Mamba) will track just as well and just as consistently as a wired mouse as long as its somewhat near the computer and the batteries aren't dying. If I don't recommend a wireless mouse, its purely based on battery issues.


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## lewis6194

nono~~ I didnt say wireless mice are less consistent, i said they were less responsive.


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## cuad

Good enough guide that echoes lots of stuff I had previously read here: http://www.eve-films.com/forum/showthread.php?40381-FraGTaLiTy-s-Epic-Gaming-Mice-Guide-for-PC-Shooting-Games


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## HaiiYaa

You are wrong about lasers vs optical mice. The Avago ADNS-S9500 laser sensor has a higher perfect control speeds and higher malfunction speed


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## cuad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HaiiYaa;12540867*
> You are wrong about lasers vs optical mice. The Avago ADNS-S9500 laser sensor has a higher perfect control speeds and higher malfunction speed


Maybe, but that sensor has positive acceleration.


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## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HaiiYaa;12540867*
> You are wrong about lasers vs optical mice. The Avago ADNS-S9500 laser sensor has a higher perfect control speeds and higher malfunction speed


Think about the definition of perfect control speed, read the ESR review. Then realize that because the ADNS 9500 has acceleration even at slow speeds it has one of the WORST perfect control speeds. The only thing the ADNS 9500 excels at is a very high MALFUNCTION speed and even that is only possible on a hard surface. I doubt even the lowest sensitivity gamers need much over 2 m/s. Perfect control speed is much more important compared to malfunction speed as long as the malfunction speed is above 2 m/s IMO.

The OP is right about acceleration, some people can adapt and play very well with acceleration but good luck if you are one of the many that cannot play well with acceleration and your crappy laser mouse can't disable it.

If Sujoy ever came back and reviewed the G500 on his Qck test rig you would see how much of a piece of crap the sensor actually was.


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## B!0HaZard

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lewis6194;12539873*
> *1.Mouse DPI/CPI*
> DPI is relevant because a high DPI + low sensitivity eliminates pixel skipping. Pixel skipping does exist, it's a fact. I'd say you're talking BS. But that might be because you're a low sens gamer judging by the DPI's and Windows sensitivities you wrote.
> 
> *2.Windows Pointer Speed*
> I know that a lot of professionals use different Windows sensitivities, but it is still a fact that anything else than 6/11 will cause weird acceleration in Windows XP. Of course one can get used to this and some probably have, but it is still not desirable. Windows 7 is not nearly as bad though so it might be an option here.
> 
> *6.Optical vs Laser*
> I'm sure you got something wrong here. Lasers don't track worse than optical mice on cloth pads, they have lower malfunctioning speeds on cloth pads. Which is only relevant for a low sens gamer. Who wouldn't be using the laser's high DPI. Meaning that he shouldn't have a laser mouse anyway.
> 
> *7.Wired vs Wireless*
> I lol'd. The G500 is not wireless. I mean, come on! It's the G700 that's wireless.


I'm of course not an expert, but this is the info I've gathered over the years. Feel free to correct me.


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## Lord Xeb

Much better ^_^


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## justarealguy

Full italics?

I couldn't read it.


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## lewis6194

Okay thanks for pointing out, removed italics, removed g500 from wireless mouse list. Adjusting windows pointer speed will not cause weird acceleration, all it does is cause pixel skipping which is hardly noticeable. Sure DPI is relevant because a high DPI + low sensitivity eliminates pixel skipping. But the pixel skipping is impossible to see with your naked eye, its that subtle. The effect of using an interpolarated DPI is will cause even more pixel skipping as well as other problems. Its also a widely known fact that laser sensors track poorly on cloth mouse pads, not only do they have lower perfect control speeds but they also jitter alot.


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## B!0HaZard

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lewis6194;12541740*
> Okay thanks for pointing out, removed italics, removed g500 from wireless mouse list. *Adjusting windows pointer speed will not cause weird acceleration, all it does is cause pixel skipping which is hardly noticeable.* Sure DPI is relevant because a high DPI + low sensitivity eliminates pixel skipping. But the pixel skipping is impossible to see with your naked eye, its that subtle. The effect of using an interpolarated DPI is will cause even more pixel skipping as well as other problems.


*Then how do you explain the pictures in the CS:S mouse guide?*
Do you even know anything about mice?

I changed from the G5 mainly to avoid pixel skipping. Do you know how hard it is to hit at long range when your mouse always skips over a pixel? Listen, skipping is when one's mouse skips a pixel or more. It is not possible to create pixel skipping that isn't noticeable, because you can't skip less than 1 pixel and 1 pixel is noticeable. You obviously either can't see or have no idea what you're talking about.


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## lewis6194

Firstly, the pixel skipping I was talking about was from changing your windows pointer speed. You said you changed from your g5 due to it skipping pixels, but that is probably because the g5 mouse uses a laser engine and like I said before laser engines tend to skip or jitter Badly on a cloth mousepad like qck or when there is just dust. And if you can actually notice your mouse skipping 1 pixel, you probably have some supernatural eyes.


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## B!0HaZard

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lewis6194;12541896*
> Firstly, the pixel skipping I was talking about was from changing your windows pointer speed. You said you changed from your g5 due to it skipping pixels, but that is probably because the g5 mouse uses a laser engine and like I said before laser engines tend to skip or jitter Badly on a cloth mousepad like qck or when there is just dust. And if you can actually notice your mouse skipping 1 pixel, you probably have some supernatural eyes.


No, wasn't from jitter or tracking, it would skip one pixel no matter what surface it was on. That was a result of too high sensitivity ingame. Pixel skipping is pretty obvious when playing FPS's. Of course not in close range fights, but at long range when accuracy was required. My G500 doesn't skip pixels.


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## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lewis6194;12539873*
> 1.Mouse DPI/CPI
> DPI/CPI refers to dots per inches or counts per inches. It refers to the sensitivity of your mouse. However a very common misunderstanding about it is that DPI/CPI is a benchmark for how accurate your mouse is.


It's true that people assume that precision = accuracy, although they have much different meanings and is up to the consumer to actually research.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision







Quote:


> This is wrong! DPI/CPI is just the distance your mouse cursor moves in relation to the distance your mouse moves in real life. So for example, a mouse with higher sensitivity moves 3 pixels/cm whereas a mouse with lower sensitivity moves 1 pixel/cm, BUT they are both equally accurate.


A mouse cannot be "accurate", but it can be precise.

Based on FoV, Resolution, and sensitivity, a 400 CPI mouse can either be fine or bad depending on a specific users needs.

This thread covers most of it since I really don't feel like explaining it again.

http://www.overclock.net/mice/940560-question-regards-dpi-mice-3.html
Quote:


> Many gaming companies take advantage of this misunderstanding and often boast about their high DPI/CPI mice when they are actually overpriced garbage.


I'll agree to an extent, but it really depends on the individual user and or hardware. A high sens user will actually benefit from a higher CPI/DPI count.
Quote:


> Some gaming companies even use interpolaration (think of it as attatching a lens or a magnifying glass to trick the sensor) to increase the DPI/CPI further even at the expense of the mouse's performance. DO NOT BELIEVE their marketing and fall for their traps.


Interpolation isn't done by attaching a lens, although it can be executed through an MCU or drivers.
Quote:


> DPI/CPI HAS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH ACCURACY OF YOUR MOUSE.


But it does for precision.
Quote:


> A good example is the microsoft intellimouse 3.0, a very popular choice among professional gamers, it only has 400 dpi but its a very good mouse nevertheless.


Good mouse, just be sure to pair it with the correct desktop/ingame resolution and sensitivity.


----------



## Richardw9

My Logitec M705 is both wireless and uses a laser, I can honestly say that I notice not decreased performance in gaming, but then again I'm not a great PC gamer so...


----------



## lewis6194

I have rephrased the part about mouse being accurateand have changed the part about interpolaration(credits to skylit).

And regarding the pictures in the CS:S mouse guide,they are not true. Then why the pictures showing the windows pointer speed at 8/11 have much jaggier edges as compared to the 6/11? Obviously with windows pointer speed at 8/11 your mouse is at a higher sensitivity, so if you try to draw any shape (lines/circles/squares), its alot harder and the rough edges are actually caused by the jittering of the tester's hand(user error) NOT the mouse. This is why graphic designers often use very low mouse sensitivity. Imagine if you have a 2 identical pencils and you are going to draw circles with them. On 1 pencil, you hold the pencil where you normally hold it. However on the other pencil, you hold it such that your hand is as far away as possible from the surface you are drawing on(simulate a higher sensitivity). Naturally your 2nd drawing will look alot worse because of all the jittering.

As to lowering your mouse pointer speed down, the CS:S Mouse Optimization Guide claimed that this would cause you to have two different sensitivties for different direction. For example the mouse moves 10 pixels/cm to the right where as 5 pixels/cm to the left. He then tries to prove his point by repeatedly drawing circles on the spot and somehow the circles drawn with the mouse pointer speed down are slanted.
But this is not true because if you were to have two different sensitivties for different direction, a simpler and more accurate test would have been:
Step 1:Find a fps game such as cs, test for mouse acceleration. If no mouse acceleration then proceed.
Step 2oint crosshair at a fixed point (like a corner)
Step 3:Swipe mouse over a distance/mousepad (say 45cm - length of qck+) and stop at a point
Step 4:Swipe mouse over the SAME distance/mousepad (say 45cm - length of qck+) in the opposite direction from where you stopped at Step 3.

If the mouse returns back to the fixed point which you first started it proves that the sensitivity for both left and right side are the SAME. Obviosly it wont be at that exact same pixel, but it would be in the same area due to human error.
I used this method to test with a deathadder(no mouse acceleration) at 1800 dpi 3/11 windows pointer speed and the mouse returned back to the fixed point from which i started. Therefore I can conclude that the theory about windows pointer speed in the CS:S Mouse Optimization Guide as well as the pictures are *wrong*.


----------



## B!0HaZard

But you're doing the test on W7. The CS:S guide says that his pictures don't apply to W7, because mouse acceleration has been reduced in the new Windows.


----------



## lewis6194

Its not about mouse acceleration, its about skipping pixels. Mouse acceleration not equals to skipping pixels. If you actually read the CS:S Mouse Optimization Guide again, nothing was mentioned about mouse acceleration in the 1.2 - Adjust Windows mouse properties section. If reducing mouse acceleration solves that issue caused by changing mouse pointer speed, simply unchecking the enhance precision box and applying a mousefix to disable acceleration entirely would have solved the problem.


----------



## B!0HaZard

I understand. He still says it doesn't apply to W7, though.


----------



## krameriffic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp;12541387*
> If Sujoy ever came back and reviewed the G500 on his Qck test rig you would see how much of a piece of crap the sensor actually was.


Funny, because I have a QcK and a Xai right here and they function perfectly well together. The cursor does not jitter nor does the tracking fail catastrophically if I swipe the mouse as fast as I possibly can.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krameriffic;12544466*
> Funny, because I have a QcK and a Xai right here and they function perfectly well together. The cursor does not jitter nor does the tracking fail catastrophically if I swipe the mouse as fast as I possibly can.


That _IS_ funny.


----------



## Eagle1337

I'm with derp here the 9500 doesn't do clothe pads well. my wireless laser mouse works just as good as my wired optical mouse.
Honestly i really don't find this guide all that truthful.


----------



## lewis6194

Updated with more information/images esp under the optical vs laser section which have seen much discussion as well as quotes and graphs from other credible sources.


----------



## krameriffic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp;12544607*
> That _IS_ funny.


I have news to report on that front. After fiddling with it some more, I find that the Xai and my G9x both jitter a lot on the QcK when I use them at 5000 DPI. I don't see it at the DPI settings that I actually use for the desktop and for gaming though (800 and 2500 respectively). I could see people having some real problems with that jitter, but I'm not convinced that its all on the sensor itself. There's no real reason why I would use 5000 DPI, and while I'm sure it starts to show itself at lower DPI settings, the jitter isn't there at reasonable levels.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lewis6194;12539873*
> So unless your playing with an extremely high resolution and a high sensitivity, 1000 dpi should satisfy even high sens gamers.


Not with larger resolutions and scalable FoV's.

At the quoted 4"/360 (high) sensitivity, standard 1920x1080 resolution, and a FoV of 90, estimated useful CPI is around ~1500. The twist is when you use weapons that dynamically change the FoV like a sniper scope, iron/red dot sights or anything else that messes with the natural view. I'm not completely sure, but I believe CoD's engine scales down to 40 FoV when you right click making the estimated useful CPI as high as ~4100 given the same resolution and sensitivity.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *injx*
> CM/360 (360 / (y * d * w * s)) * 2.54 C
> Inches/360 360 / (y * d * w * s)
> CPI/DPI (pi * g) / (i * tan(f / 2))


Part of the reason why lower resolutions under 1024x768 are popular among the competitive gaming community.


----------



## anoob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit;12557470*
> Not with larger resolutions and scalable FoV's.
> 
> At the quoted 4"/360 (high) sensitivity, standard 1920x1080 resolution, and a FoV of 90, estimated useful CPI is around ~1500. The twist is when you use weapons that dynamically change the FoV like a sniper scope, iron/red dot sights or anything else that messes with the natural view. I'm not completely sure, but I believe CoD's engine scales down to 40 FoV when you right click making the estimated useful CPI as high at ~4100 given the same resolution and sensitivity.
> 
> *Part of the reason why lower resolutions under 1024x768 are popular among the competitive gaming community.*


Yup, this is why I used to play on 1280x1024 and 1680x1050. I do way better at those resolutions than any other resolutions. Higher resolution messed with my FOV for a while. When CSS came out I was still running 1280x1024 and there was some crazy people who where still playing CS at 648x480 and 800x600. It's madness!

P.S. I hate Comic Sans.


----------



## lewis6194

Thanks derp and skylit, added your opinions/well shared thoughts. And noted anoob, changed to arial.


----------



## anoob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lewis6194;12564182*
> Thanks derp and skylit, added your opinions/well shared thoughts. And noted anoob, changed to arial.


Thanks, much more readable now.


----------



## lewis6194

I know that some people might find it hard to believe that optical sensors are better than laser sensors. But I really cant think of any edge a laser sensor have over the optical besides having higher DPI. And while you might think that there isnt much difference between optical/laser or wire/wireless at first, after trying out both type of mice for an extended period of time, you will notice a slight difference in your gameplay.

Same goes for mouse acceleration. People who have been using mouse acceleration all their life would think that its perfectly fine or normal until they try playing without mouse accel. But after playing for a while without mouse accel, and getting used to it, they play better than they did before. However, this is not always the case, so to find the best settings for yourself, just give everything a try and give yourself enough time to get used to it. And then pick whatever you are most comfortable with.


----------



## HaiiYaa

So according to you fpsgun on dharma tp hard mousepad and philips twin eye in lachesis on steelseries sx is better than deathadder on any mousepad?



















compared to deathadder









The lachesis and fpsgun look more stable to me








I think acceleration doesnt make a mouse bad unless VERY High or Low, you just need to get used to it. You need to play with your mouse over a period of 1-2years till you get really used to the acceleration. And perfect control speed doesnt matter as long as its above 1.5-2meters as no one is going to move their mouse faster than that

the avage 9500 sensor is great and you shouldnt advice people against buying it as it have very low acceleration. You dont even take into consideration that it depends on the mousepad also, you jsut choose the mousepad which the avage 9500 is most unstable on and because of that you say that all optical sensors are better than laser sensors? None of the mice had great stable control without acceleration on the g-pad except the ikari laser and razer mamba










The deathadder sensor might be the best overall but the 2nd best would be the avago 9500 on a hard mousepad, therefore I can't see why you tell people to stay away from laser sensors


----------



## AMW1011

What HaiiYaa said is the truth.

You can moan about the acceleration all you want, but in practical terms it is very low and almost non-existent on a good hard surface. Also the argument pertaining soft mouse pads or the Qck makes no sense, since many people do prefer a hard mouse pad over a cloth. Not to mention that you are ignorant of any other genre besides FPS. I want extreme speed and consistency when I play an RTS. Absolute accuracy isn't always a concern and the quality of the mouse is easily as important in an RTS as it is in an FPS.

Yes, your run of the mill A9500 sensor does have lift off issues for some people, but the Roccat Kone+ uses it and fixes the issue perfectly with drivers. I can control it so that lifting the mouse a cm off of the pad registers nothing, up to multiple inches of registered lift.

The best sensor for gaming that has a reasonably high sensitivity is the Death Adder 3G, but the difference will not be felt by anyone other than the absolute best of the best professional players.


----------



## Happydude123

The truthful mouse guide should have said that, most people who play games do not play competitively. People in a gungame, office pub do not count as competitive players, most people on OCN do not count as competitive players.

This whole gaming mouse is a huge gimmick for them. Do not waste your time on a 80+ dollar mouse. It is all placebo effect, chances are you probably won't get better with a new gaming mouse. Even those dell optical OEM mouse are pretty good at tracking.

Too be honest when you buy a gaming mouse (for fps games), you are buying the better tracking, and higher tracking speeds. Most people, like I stated, do not even have mouse sensitivities that are low enough to hit those speeds. When I say low sensititivies i mean doing a 360 in game by moving the mouse across 16+ inches, with no accel of course.

And yes, xai accell is noticeable but for most people it isn't noticeable, because they do not actually use the mouse to its higher speeds.

In the end, the player needs to do the aiming, not the mouse.


----------



## WMO1.1a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Happydude123;12626092*
> The truthful mouse guide should have said that, most people who play games do not play competitively. People in a gungame, office pub do not count as competitive players, most people on OCN do not count as competitive players.
> 
> This whole gaming mouse is a huge gimmick for them. Do not waste your time on a 80+ dollar mouse. It is all placebo effect, chances are you probably won't get better with a new gaming mouse. Even those dell optical OEM mouse are pretty good at tracking.
> 
> Too be honest when you buy a gaming mouse (for fps games), you are buying the better tracking, and higher tracking speeds. Most people, like I stated, do not even have mouse sensitivities that are low enough to hit those speeds. When I say low sensititivies i mean doing a 360 in game by moving the mouse across 16+ inches, with no accel of course.
> 
> And yes, xai accell is noticeable but for most people it isn't noticeable, because they do not actually use the mouse to its higher speeds.
> 
> In the end, the player needs to do the aiming, not the mouse.


tl;dr version buy a WMO or IO 1.1 for $10 and be happy forever.


----------



## lewis6194

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HaiiYaa;12620126*
> So according to you fpsgun on dharma tp hard mousepad and philips twin eye in lachesis on steelseries sx is better than deathadder on any mousepad?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> compared to deathadder
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The lachesis and fpsgun look more stable to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think acceleration doesnt make a mouse bad unless VERY High or Low, you just need to get used to it. You need to play with your mouse over a period of 1-2years till you get really used to the acceleration. And perfect control speed doesnt matter as long as its above 1.5-2meters as no one is going to move their mouse faster than that
> 
> the avage 9500 sensor is great and you shouldnt advice people against buying it as it have very low acceleration. You dont even take into consideration that it depends on the mousepad also, you jsut choose the mousepad which the avage 9500 is most unstable on and because of that you say that all optical sensors are better than laser sensors? None of the mice had great stable control without acceleration on the g-pad except the ikari laser and razer mamba
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The deathadder sensor might be the best overall but the 2nd best would be the avago 9500 on a hard mousepad, therefore I can't see why you tell people to stay away from laser sensors


The fpsgun uses an optical sensor if im not wrong. Please correct me if i am.
And while the lachesis seems to form smoother lines, you can see it's tracking is all over the place, most noticeable with the SP. And i did mention, if you insist on using a laser mouse it is very important to find a good/compatible surface with the mouse. This varies between different mice.

But I do agree that some people can get used to mouse acceleration after playing with it over a long period of time. Also, most people wont reach beyond tracking speeds of above 2m/s.


----------



## lewis6194

Quote:


> Also the argument pertaining soft mouse pads or the Qck makes no sense, since many people do prefer a hard mouse pad over a cloth.


Evidence?
Quote:


> I want extreme speed and consistency when I play an RTS. Absolute accuracy isn't always a concern


You obviously didnt read the guide at all.


----------



## Happydude123

Most professional gamers use cloth pads. I am not sure why thought. Probably because cloth pads offer sizes that are much bigger, that are preferable to low sensitivity.

Clothpads usually provide, better longetivity and more friction. The increased friction i feel is more reliable and more intended movements are inputed.


----------



## AMW1011

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lewis6194;12628369*
> Evidence?
> 
> You obviously didnt read the guide at all.


Why do I need evidence to state that some people prefer hard mouse pads? Do you want a signed petition from myself and the people I know that share the same feelings?

Also I wasn't talking about your guide when I said that. It was pointed towards others in the thread.


----------



## lewis6194

Just because you prefer hard mouse pads does not mean that everyone else does. And you go ahead and make it sound like you speak for everyone and falsely claim that the argument pertaining qck is useless?

If you actually read the guide properly, you would know that issues like skipping of pixels, mouse acceleration, perfect control speeds, malfunction speeds affect ALL mice regardless of the game you are playing (RTS or FPS.)

While you may argue, in RTS games mice are not as important as in FPS, it is up to the individual.


----------



## Xenthos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AMW1011;12634420*
> Why do I need evidence to state that some people prefer hard mouse pads? *Do you want a signed petition from myself and the people I know that share the same feelings?*
> 
> Also I wasn't talking about your guide when I said that. It was pointed towards others in the thread.


Haha, I laughed so hard I broke a rib.









Anyways, OP. The guide is... ok-ish. But next time, you should try to leave bias out if objectivity is of any concern to you.


----------



## kencan

You guys just absolutely do not recognize that most of your opinions are amateur opinions. Laser might or might not be more accurate than optical. Mouse acceleration is not necessarily a bad thing as it possibly is intended to replicate normal human hand movement and changes in speed/inflection. The Wheel Mouse Optical must be a decade old now and in all honesty, I have bought one recently after listening to some of your opinions and by no means is such an old mouse the single best mouse out there. It moves at a constant speed and does not accelerate normally which means you have to drag your hand all over the mousepad surface in order to get enough distance with it.

With all of your analysis and statistical input you are merely scratching at the surface without understanding the core.

By the way, I am getting a G9x, and not over-analyzing any further.


----------



## Wararchon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kencan;14386685*
> You guys just absolutely do not recognize that most of your opinions are amateur opinions. Laser might or might not be more accurate than optical. Mouse acceleration is not necessarily a bad thing as it possibly is intended to replicate normal human hand movement and changes in speed/inflection. The Wheel Mouse Optical must be a decade old now and in all honesty, I have bought one recently after listening to some of your opinions and by no means is such an old mouse the single best mouse out there. It moves at a constant speed and does not accelerate normally which means you have to drag your hand all over the mousepad surface in order to get enough distance with it.
> 
> With all of your analysis and statistical input you are merely scratching at the surface without understanding the core.
> 
> By the way, I am getting a G9x, and not over-analyzing any further.


Good thing we have you to clear up all the stuff the amateurs are saying. Let me clear up a few of these "opinions"

1. Laser at best is as good as optical. At worst it's not. Unless you think DPI is a factor of how good a mouse is (seeing as you don't like moving around the mouse pad, maybe you do).

2. No, acceleration is not intended to replicate normal human hand movement, it's a by-product of the way sensors work. If I set aside a cup a foot from my hand, by moving my hand really fast for 6 inches, I don't expect to grab the cup. No matter how fast I move my hands.

3.WMO is not THE best mouse, that much is true. It's just that its features (besides its low DPI and control speed) are what good mice should desire.

However, it may be that you prefer a lot of acceleration. But please realize that most of what was said here is in fact at the "core" of what a good mouse is.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kencan;14386685*
> It moves at a constant speed and does not accelerate normally


Pretty sure that's what all mice strive to do. Acceleration does have its advantages. Contextually - a need to constantly be aware of your surroundings wherein there are many intersections and openings from which opponents can come from in a fast paced game - Quake. The advantage of quake was that it was possible to set acceleration after a certain speed was hit, so slow movement did not actuate any acceleration, but moving 180 degrees was not as cumbersome. Acceleration that cannot be turned off, however, is just stupid.


----------



## Mike-IRL

Guide's okay, the original didn't really leave much unsaid though.
All I'd disagree with you on is you used a graph from 07 that's based on value to argue that laser is worse than optical, it's irrelevant at this stage because that was 4 years ago and prices and technology have changed since then.

Also you say at one point that the G500 is wireless, I had one and it isn't.
You're thinking of the G700 which in my experience lost nothing when I tried it wirelessly vs. wired, in fact it feels better if anything because the wire is a piece of crap.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mike-IRL;14391085*
> All I'd disagree with you on is you used a graph from 07 that's based on value to argue that laser is worse than optical, it's irrelevant at this stage because that was 4 years ago and prices and technology have changed since then.


The last two notable laser sensors were brought out in 09, and I'm sorry if I offend anyone but they're still crap compared to a solid optical. The Avago 9500 can hang with optical performance, but only on hard surfaces and about 1-2 cloth pads without severely taking a performance hit.

There's also a couple problems besides that:
- The sensor itself has a small positive acceleration flaw that can be annoying to certain playing styles. Granted, that optical can also have this problem, there aren't really any "good" laser sensors besides the 9500 and _maybe_ ONS ovation. (not sure, never used)
- Laser is sensitive. Any dust or dirt stuck between the sensor and surface can cause tracking abnormalities.

As for the guide there is heavy bias and it should be left out as others said.


----------



## kencan

By the way, a single more-powerful graphics card is better than any multi-GPU setup according to my friend's experience. Which should I trust, experience or a marketing gimmick?

Also, don't merely judge new mice by their individual components, you have to realize that the manufacturers created each individual component in order to reflect the product as a whole. You can't possibly know how each individual component works together to form a whole until you've actually tested it.


----------



## dmxdex2020

I use my wrist to move my mouse. Am i likely to hit high malfunction speeds?


----------



## AquaSurfer

No.
You probably never exceed 0.5m/s.
You can check it with Enotus Mouse Test.


----------



## LuciferRising

Is this guide still reliable ? It's very good thread as I just read the whole guide and I liked it


----------



## end0rphine

Yes this guide is still reliable.


----------



## LuciferRising

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Yes this guide is still reliable.


Thanks.

P.S. How do you think G400 performs? especially for FPS (CS 1.6)?

does it have acceleration (negative, possitive), does it skip, jitter, how is the prediction(I heard v2 was with prediction removed), and all that ?


----------



## Mike-IRL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LuciferRising*
> 
> Thanks.
> P.S. How do you think G400 performs? especially for FPS (CS 1.6)?
> does it have acceleration (negative, possitive), does it skip, jitter, how is the prediction(I heard v2 was with prediction removed), and all that ?


The 518 has one clear weakness, prediction. With that removed I'd imagine the g400 performs very well.
As far as I know it has no positive or negative acceleration, I'm not sure about skipping or jittering but I've never noticed them with my 518 except for what's probably just my hand shaking a little at 1600DPI and the g400's sensor is supposed to be the same but with higher sensitivity and polling rate.
I've played a lot of CS:S and much prefer my 518 to the G500/700 purely because they have noticeable acceleration and I find it annoying.


----------



## LuciferRising

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mike-IRL*
> 
> The 518 has one clear weakness, prediction. With that removed I'd imagine the g400 performs very well.
> As far as I know it has no positive or negative acceleration, I'm not sure about skipping or jittering but I've never noticed them with my 518 except for what's probably just my hand shaking a little at 1600DPI and the g400's sensor is supposed to be the same but with higher sensitivity and polling rate.
> I've played a lot of CS:S and much prefer my 518 to the G500/700 purely because they have noticeable acceleration and I find it annoying.


yea most definitely im not buying a laser mouse... after what I just read, no thanks. I was thinking to buy G9x, but now i have different perspective.

well, the facts about G400, at least what I heard, are that it doesnt possess prediction anymore, and that he has no acceleration whatsoever as latest drivers remove it completely.. im not sure about the latter though, thats why im asking.

the main things that bother me so far are:

Image processing: *5.8 megapixels/second* compared to *G9x's 12megapixels/second*
Max. acceleration: *25G** compared to *G9x's 30G*
Max. speed: *70-140* inches/second* compared to *G9x's 165 inches (4.19 m)/second*

are these things crucial for playing CS and how much?


----------



## Skylit

This guide or opinion isn't exactly up to date when it comes to the Optical vs Laser debate.

The latest A9500 firmware and or hardware perform much better than previous mice I've had and tested in the past. The Sensei for example performs exceptionally well surpassing a bulk of popular optical mice on cloth. The only real problem is the minor accel that occurs when swiping over 30-40 IPS~

Previous and current 9500 mice tend to have better tracking quality (Percision) than the latest high CPI opticals.

Quote:


> Image processing: 5.8 megapixels/second compared to G9x's 12megapixels/second
> Max. acceleration: 25G* compared to G9x's 30G
> Max. speed: 70-140* inches/second compared to G9x's 165 inches (4.19 m)/second
> 
> are these things crucial for playing CS and how much?


Megapixels/s is calculated by sensor array size and max FPS. The Laser sensor is more advanced.
Acceleration is acceleration. Not much to explain.
Max speed is the how fast the sensor can track. Different surfaces contribute to different max speed. The mouse itself can exceed logitechs rating from what I've tested. The G9x is actually rated *Up to* 165 inches. They're not lying









Depends on how you play. The G9x is guaranteed to perform great on hard surfaces, but I'm unsure if current Logitech Laser mice still under perform on cloth. The G9x is a good mouse as long as it "fits you"


----------



## LuciferRising

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> This guide or opinion isn't exactly up to date when it comes to the Optical vs Laser debate.
> The latest A9500 firmware and or hardware perform much better than previous mice I've had and tested in the past. The Sensei for example performs exceptionally well surpassing a bulk of popular optical mice on cloth. The only real problem is the minor accel that occurs when swiping over 30-40 IPS~
> Previous and current 9500 mice tend to have better tracking quality (Percision) than the latest high CPI opticals.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Image processing: 5.8 megapixels/second compared to G9x's 12megapixels/second
> Max. acceleration: 25G* compared to G9x's 30G
> Max. speed: 70-140* inches/second compared to G9x's 165 inches (4.19 m)/second
> are these things crucial for playing CS and how much?
> 
> 
> 
> Megapixels/s is calculated by sensor array size and max FPS. The Laser sensor is more advanced.
> Acceleration is acceleration. Not much to explain.
> Max speed is the how fast the sensor can track. Different surfaces contribute to different max speed. The mouse itself can exceed logitechs rating from what I've tested. The G9x is actually rated *Up to* 165 inches. They're not lying
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends on how you play. The G9x is guaranteed to perform great on hard surfaces, but I'm unsure if current Logitech Laser mice still under perform on cloth. The G9x is a good mouse as long as it "fits you"
Click to expand...

and nothing said on G400







good review for G9x though


----------



## Thoth420

I have a g700 which I normally leave wired...just liked the button layout etc.
I had DPI set to 1800 Speed 3 (in setpoint) Acceleration 0 Angle Snapping Disabled and Polling Rate at 500.
Decided to try 800 DPI Speed 6 instead.

Thank you for this guide


----------



## Je720

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thoth420*
> 
> I have a g700 which I normally leave wired...just liked the button layout etc.
> I had DPI set to 1800 Speed 3 (in setpoint) Acceleration 0 Angle Snapping Disabled and Polling Rate at 500.
> Decided to try 800 DPI Speed 6 instead.


Set Polling rate to 1000Mhz, there is no reason not to (you are not overclocking your USB so there is no associated risk). Unless you are trying to save power ^^

This guide interests me despite the bias, I have always used an Ice mat (SS Experience i-1 now) so even though I went from an MX510 to a G5 2007 it was probably an ok upgrade (until the part where G5 drivers spazzed out when I eventually upgraded OS from XP to Win 7). I am currently using a G700 (wired only) with Set Point sensitivity 2, 2500 DPI, no accel and then I reduce sensitivity in game till I get low-mid speed; which generally requires the lowest possible value or a CFG edit. This has always felt rock solid but I now want to do some tweaking and benchmarks to make sure I am getting the best results from it.


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## Omega215d

I recently bought the SS Diablo III mouse as a cheaper alternative to the Sensei (plus it goes well with my CM Trigger) and I have to say that the laser sensor performs excellently on both my Goliathus Speed and SS 5L. The whole negativity on laser sensors is pretty overblown. I can game just as well on it as my CM Spawn, MX-518 and Intellimouse Explorer 3.0.

That being said I think the SS mouse has to go back as I cannot comfortable with its shape but love the coating on the shell. I have no idea why as I loved using the Diamondback... of course I have been using right handed mice exclusively since then. I'll probably give it another week.


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## zulk

Its not an alternative to the sensei or the xai and it comes from a different factory. Not even sure if the tracking is overall similar


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## Thoth420

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Je720*
> 
> Set Polling rate to 1000Mhz, there is no reason not to (you are not overclocking your USB so there is no associated risk). Unless you are trying to save power ^^
> 
> This guide interests me despite the bias, I have always used an Ice mat (SS Experience i-1 now) so even though I went from an MX510 to a G5 2007 it was probably an ok upgrade (until the part where G5 drivers spazzed out when I eventually upgraded OS from XP to Win 7). I am currently using a G700 (wired only) with Set Point sensitivity 2, 2500 DPI, no accel and then I reduce sensitivity in game till I get low-mid speed; which generally requires the lowest possible value or a CFG edit. This has always felt rock solid but I now want to do some tweaking and benchmarks to make sure I am getting the best results from it.


Will do the default was just 500 and I got used to it....didn't want to change anything and start failing in BF3.


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## BinZz

Ok , I have the Taipan.
http://www.esreality.com/wiki/Hardware:Mice_Sensors
I like it.
But i am asking which is better in terms of sensor performance.


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## Jodiuh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> Yes this guide is still reliable.


I'd love to see how the Mionix Naos 8200 compares w/ the Razer Deathadder 2013 on Razer's Scarab or another similar hard surface.


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## Pip Boy

lets face it the MX518 is the only mouse you need


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## Jodiuh

I've a friend that still uses one. Cleans up the floor in BF3 despite owning it for less than 2 weeks.









10% toys, 90% skill


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## l1mi

You know that Razer Mamba have two modes, wireless and wired mode so to label it as a wireless might be wrong, good article anyway. Could have added mouse weight and how it affect the actual use depending on how its used and more aboute mousepad surface would have been interesting too.

Came here randomly when trying to find a lighter mouse then Mamba that is too heavy for extreme conditions where you push the limits for what a mouse actually can achive. Its really hard to find a good mouse & keyboard and if you do.. you must be lucky so they aint created in a size that is made to fit dwarfs.


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## Scorpion667

I approve this thread. Carry on.


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## l1mi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jodiuh*
> 
> I've a friend that still uses one. Cleans up the floor in BF3 despite owning it for less than 2 weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 10% toys, 90% skill


Thats because player aim isnt more then one of several main factors in FPS games like BF3, you can compensate it with being better in other areas. Aim matter very little in fact if you have all other advantages, thats why its easy to beat players using aimbots in Quake one as an example, unless its good a good player using aimbot.

.


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## Thoth420

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l1mi*
> 
> You know that Razer Mamba have two modes, wireless and wired mode so to label it as a wireless might be wrong, good article anyway. Could have added mouse weight and how it affect the actual use depending on how its used and more aboute mousepad surface would have been interesting too.
> 
> Came here randomly when trying to find a lighter mouse then Mamba that is too heavy for extreme conditions where you push the limits for what a mouse actually can achive. Its really hard to find a good mouse & keyboard and if you do.. you must be lucky so they aint created in a size that is made to fit dwarfs.


I agree with you that surface and weight have an effect. My g700 and mx 518 are both really light. The g700 has data over cable just like the mamba but is advertised as a wireless mouse.


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## superior

I stopped at

What to avoid "1.Laser sensor", what a load of rubbish.


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