# [Various] Swiftech H220 240mm AIO Water Cooler (Expandable)



## lurker2501

So Swiftech jumped in on the bandwagon too. Who's next? XSPC? Koolance?


----------



## nyk20z3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> So Swiftech jumped in on the bandwagon too. Who's next? XSPC? Koolance?


Logitech is next lol


----------



## DoktorCreepy

So going on what the article implies this is a Swiftech proprietary design and therefore not based on a Asetek or Coolit design; I'm kind of curious to see how it performs.


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## mdatmo

I wonder if the pump is a low power mcp350 or some other custom pump?
Swiftech makes great rads, cpu blocks, and the 35X is an amazing pump. This is a very promising AIO.


----------



## SpykeZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> So Swiftech jumped in on the bandwagon too. Who's next? XSPC? Koolance?


The more competition the better as it'll drive prices down and take Corsair off their high hate. 120 bucks for a cooler (h100i) that performs 3-5C worse than it's little brother (h80i) all while costing 10-20 dollars less


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## Johnny Utah

This is much more than your standard AIO kit. It's legit, no compromise, off-the-shelf Swiftech parts. That CPU block looks very similar to an apogee drive II (although I'm sure it's a more modest version considering what an AD II costs) and the included swiftech helix fans are excellent. This will cost much more than your dinky little H100 for good reason. You'll be able to easily add a GPU block, another radiator, etc in the future.

edit: wow at $139 this thing is a steal. Be warned this will be a gateway drug to water cooling. It can become expensive and addicting in a hurry.


----------



## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> Logitech is next lol


I doubt it, logitech sells computer peripherals, not computer parts. Have you seen any logitech cooler? Fans? Case?


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## Fonne

About performance from Gabe:
Quote:


> this is the same radiator core as the MCR220-res , except that frame and reservoir are smaller for maximum case compatibility; CPU cooler has the same thermal /hydraulic layout as the APD2.
> 
> At same flow, performance is identical. What the MCP35X buys you is increased power/rpm range i.e. H220 pump spins up to 3k max vs. APD2 that spins at up to 4.2k


Quote:


> For example at CES we will demonstrate 3 systems using the cooler:
> 
> 1 system with H220 in CPU cooling only
> 1 system with H220 cooling CPU + (2) gtx680 in SLI + VR's (Asus Maxiums V)
> 1 system with H220 + 1 MCR220 + 1 MCR240 cooling CPU + (2) HD 7900 series Radeons in XFire


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## nismo_usaf

ER MERH GHURD


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## 2002dunx

As a Corsair owner 2 x H70's, I see the H100 as a boutique product.

It's performance is compromised to allow it to easily fit as many cases as possible. As for price it costs what people are willing to pay for such a product.

So long as this new product has a decent pump, people like me can upgrade and then add a GPU block later.
Personally I need a 280mm radiator version, please !

dunx


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## Annex

are these coolers able to match or outperform actual custom systems yet? I haven't kept up with the tech in a while.


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## nyk20z3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> I doubt it, logitech sells computer peripherals, not computer parts. Have you seen any logitech cooler? Fans? Case?


It was a joke lol


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## Antykain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> I doubt it, logitech sells computer peripherals, not computer parts. Have you seen any logitech cooler? Fans? Case?


lol.. really? Guess you didn't sense the sarcasm..









Anywho, I had always figured one of the makers of custom watercooling would start selling AIO. It was just a matter of time.. Looking forward to seeing how this compares to the other LCS's on the market today. I was looking into getting the new NZXT Kraken X60, but if this Swiftech H220 turns out to be the better performer, I will be sold..


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## sydas

I really hope these coolers do well. i mean i love the experience of building custom loops and what not. but for buyers who dont want that experience, or a cheaper yet very close and very good cooling solution i salute you Swiftech. PS. wouldnt mind a XSPC all in 1 kit. might consider it !


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## Redwoodz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostrider85*
> 
> I doubt it, logitech sells computer peripherals, not computer parts. Have you seen any logitech cooler? Fans? Case?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> It was a joke lol


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Antykain*
> 
> lol.. really? Guess you didn't sense the sarcasm..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Anywho, I had always figured one of the makers of custom watercooling would start selling AIO. It was just a matter of time.. Looking forward to seeing how this compares to the other LCS's on the market today. I was looking into getting the new NZXT Kraken X60, but if this Swiftech H220 turns out to be the better performer, I will be sold..


He just had the wrong one. Logisys is next in line.
http://www.logisyscomputer.com/viewsku.asp?SKUID=CS8009BK&DID=Main










The Swiftech looks promising. Hope the price is right.


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## Antykain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redwoodz*
> 
> He just had the wrong one. Logisys is next in line.
> http://www.logisyscomputer.com/viewsku.asp?SKUID=CS8009BK&DID=Main
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


lol.. I've seen this on Newegg a long while back, and it's still for sale there.. for $289.99 it's yours!! http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811148057

Features Extreme Automobile Technology!


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## twitchyzero

looking forward to this....hopefully it'll have moderate dimensions to fit in most cases and full copper rad.


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## MerkageTurk

bought my h100i for no reason; i wish i waited. even thou my temps are low 21c - 42 c overclocked to 4.7


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## Kosire

Quote:


> The H220 CPU liquid cooling kit is *maintenance free for the duration of its 3 year warranty period*,


So what happens after those 3 years..


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## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kosire*
> 
> So what happens after those 3 years..


You drain it and add more water and some PT_nuke.


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## WarMacheen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Metric*
> 
> Gabe from Swiftech is on OCN so hopefully he has time to help inform the community.


He had time to post this information himself, so I would say the outlook is good

http://www.overclock.net/t/1345294/swiftech-to-unveil-new-h220-all-in-one-cpu-cooler-during-ces-2013


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## nleksan

Finally, an AIOLC made by an actual, top-notch WATERCOOLING COMPANY! I have honestly been waiting for the announcement of something likethis , after their MCR-DRIVE systems, and then the Apogee Drive II, I had a strong feeling that Gabe was up to something more than he was letting on, and I am absolutely pleased! This is what AIO LCS should have been from the get, and I see no reason why this shouldn't outperform every existingssolution while at the same timepproviding a huge amount of performance for a very low price (relatively), which will open the door to true custom liquidccooling for the many people for whom price has been the negating factor.
Swiftech, if they handle this well (and owning a number of their products, I am quite sure the quality is far beyond that of the H100 and its ilk ) from a marketing and sales perspective, they have the potential to become the number one WC mfgr while simultaneously bringing liquid cooling to the masses.

Bravo, Swiftech! I salute you (and your giant, brass, risk-taking balls).


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## tx-jose

im actually impressed.....so you can add rads to it and blocks to expand your loop!!!


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## shellbunner

Any idea how this will compare to their recently released Elite kits?

Thx


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## famous1994

Hmmmmmm................ might be time to get ride of my Antec 620.


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## JAM3S121

I love it. i am thinking about this instead of custom now


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## Xaero252

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lurker2501*
> 
> So Swiftech jumped in on the bandwagon too. Who's next? XSPC? Koolance?


Yes but if you look at the inherent design of this that appears to be an MCP-35X pump (just by the housing); The radiator and tubing also seem on par with an actual liquid cooling kit (ID/OD wise) these two factors means this should be roughly equivalent to a custom loop with a 2x120 radiator, and its modular meaning this would make a good starting point for a lot of people.


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## aiya

Think there will be a 120 version?


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## FallenFaux

Am I the only one who thinks $140 is a hard pill to swallow when for $20 more you could get a Raystorm RS240 kit?


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## pratesh

Well thats good for them. As far as I know, AIO solutions are much cheaper and offer pretty good results. No everyone is willing to drop $1000 on WC their PC. So it helps the company to keep cash coming in.

The design looks refreshing for a change, which seems quite major considering how all the other AIO coolers look.


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## King4x4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FallenFaux*
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks $140 is a hard pill to swallow when for $20 more you could get a Raystorm RS240 kit?


If the pump specifications is the same as MCP 35x then this kit is a winner!


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## Jcoast

Looks better than the current AIO's. This ones actually made by a legit watercooling company.

And those fans look like GT's... or is it me?


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## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FallenFaux*
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks $140 is a hard pill to swallow when for $20 more you could get a Raystorm RS240 kit?


Depend on what they cover with that 3 year warranty, if there is leak protection then it could be better overall value than the RS240.


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## Antykain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jcoast*
> 
> And those fans look like GT's... or is it me?


Those are the somewhat new Swiftech Helix120 fans.. and yes, they mark a striking resemblance to the GT's.


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## Jcoast

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Antykain*
> 
> Those are the somewhat new Swiftech Helix120 fans.. and yes, they mark a striking resemblance to the GT's.


Maybe re-branded.


----------



## Ragsters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jcoast*
> 
> Maybe re-branded.


No


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## DSgamer64

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoktorCreepy*
> 
> So going on what the article implies this is a Swiftech proprietary design and therefore not based on a Asetek or Coolit design; I'm kind of curious to see how it performs.


It will probably be better then the other designs. So long as it is capable of supporting multiple socket types, especially with Socket 1150 coming out this year which I will be investing in, I will be happy with the purchase because it means expanded options for water cooling loops.


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## gsa700

If this is the pump they are using,

http://www.swiftech.com/ApogeeDrive2.aspx

then this might be the best AIO yet.


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## blackbalt89

I took a quick gander at the sources but didn't see anything on rad thickness. Any ideas? Hopefully thicker than an inch, amirite?


----------



## Jarhead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Johnny Utah*
> 
> This is much more than your standard AIO kit. It's legit, no compromise, off-the-shelf Swiftech parts. That CPU block looks very similar to an apogee drive II (although I'm sure it's a more modest version considering what an AD II costs) and the included swiftech helix fans are excellent. This will cost much more than your dinky little H100 for good reason. You'll be able to easily add a GPU block, another radiator, etc in the future.
> edit: wow at $139 this thing is a steal. Be warned this will be a gateway drug to water cooling. It can become expensive and addicting in a hurry.


The last time I played with water cooling, Thermaltake was putting out stuff like this for both cpu and gpus(Tidewater and Silentwater) I modded them both with tygon tubing and DangerDen waterblocks. It did get expensive. Thinking about setting up a real water loop for my new i5 later this year after I get it built, and this just might the way I go because I'm looking for a 24/7 overclock cooling solution rather than benchmarking.

Going to need full waterblocks for a 460 GTX and two 660ti's.


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## Fonne

Gabe has told this about performance and the pump ....
Quote:


> At same flow, performance is identical. What the MCP35X buys you is increased power/rpm range i.e. H220 pump spins up to 3k max vs. APD2 that spins at up to 4.2k


Quote:


> this is the same radiator core as the MCR220-res , except that frame and reservoir are smaller for maximum case compatibility; CPU cooler has the same thermal /hydraulic layout as the APD2.


----------



## yoi

what is the difference between the H220 block/pump and the Apogee Drive II ? and , can the block/pump from the H220 could be bought separately?

i love the design of the H220 and if its capable of running an aditional 120 rad and a GPU ... this might be a winner in my book


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## Fonne

Try to read post #43









- difference between the H220 block/pump and the Apogee Drive II
Quote:


> H220 pump spins up to 3k max vs. APD2 that spins at up to 4.2k


Quote:


> CPU cooler has the same thermal /hydraulic layout as the APD2.


- i love the design of the H220 and if its capable of running an aditional 120 rad and a GPU
Quote:


> For example at CES we will demonstrate 3 systems using the cooler:
> 
> 1 system with H220 in CPU cooling only
> 1 system with H220 cooling CPU + (2) gtx680 in SLI + VR's (Asus Maxiums V)
> 1 system with H220 + 1 MCR220 + 1 MCR240 cooling CPU + (2) HD 7900 series Radeons in XFire


----------



## Johnny Utah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FallenFaux*
> 
> Am I the only one who thinks $140 is a hard pill to swallow when for $20 more you could get a Raystorm RS240 kit?


better pump, better block (maybe), better fans, comes fully assembled and filled. This kit kills the xspc.

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2


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## JAM3S121

If the fans are swiftech helix fans which they look like it will kill the xspc, those fans are really good for the price and the only ones that can really be considered better are ap-15's


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## blackbalt89

If they're using the same rad core as the MCR220-RES then its got about 10mm over my H100. Couple that with the halfway decent pump/block on this kit and I would see what, 5-10c off my current setup? Or more?

Also, would a kit (with only single 240mm rad) like this be able to even think about cooling a 2600k at 4.8 (1.425v) along with two 580s at stock? This case isn't exactly made for watercooling and I think it would be too much bother to try and stuff two 240s in here when stock 580 cooling keeps the cards at low 60s while gaming.

I'm crazy for thinking a single rad/pump can handle 3 blocks and like 600w of heat but I figured I'd ask the gurus.


----------



## FallenFaux

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Johnny Utah*
> 
> better pump, better block (maybe), better fans, comes fully assembled and filled. This kit kills the xspc.
> Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2


In practical application I highly doubt this thing would out perform a legitimate loop.


----------



## JAM3S121

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackbalt89*
> 
> If they're using the same rad core as the MCR220-RES then its got about 10mm over my H100. Couple that with the halfway decent pump/block on this kit and I would see what, 5-10c off my current setup? Or more?
> Also, would a kit (with only single 240mm rad) like this be able to even think about cooling a 2600k at 4.8 (1.425v) along with two 580s at stock? This case isn't exactly made for watercooling and I think it would be too much bother to try and stuff two 240s in here when stock 580 cooling keeps the cards at low 60s while gaming.
> I'm crazy for thinking a single rad/pump can handle 3 blocks and like 600w of heat but I figured I'd ask the gurus.


you would definitely need to add another radiator for 3 blocks


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## twitchyzero

please let rad be no more thicker than 30mm...I need it to fit in my case.

Any reason why they went with 220mm instead of the popular 240mm and now 280mm?


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## Sp33d Junki3

The rad should be 2x120mm. 280mm is an issue, as many case still do not have the standard spacing nor many case support 2x140mm.

The rad would be 34mm, as is what they current have setup in there line up.
You can fit in your case, just set it up as pull, not push.


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## twitchyzero

34mm is gonna be VERY tight if does fit...I recall it being 33-35mm before it hits the connectors on the top side of my mobo

push usually gives better performance on top of a case right? I dont mind pull if these fans are as great some are speculating to be


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## TheGovernment

Wow this looks sweet! I was waiting for the Eisberg but I'd way rather get a kit from a legit WC company.


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## Intense

By expandable, would it be possible to put a 3 x 120 Rad on this??


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## Daredevil 720

Well, that really depends on the pump.

It would be nice to know what this pump is capable of exactly. Some stats like head pressure at a given GPM would really open our eyes.


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## naved777

at $139 it would be interesting to see which comes out on top NZXT KRAKEN X60 or the Swiftech H220 but the expandability surely gives H220 the edge


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## Sp33d Junki3

H220 would come ahead. It is an actual watercooling kit, that is prebuilt. Copper with the H220 vs Aluminum rad for the rest like X60/H100i.
Good thing that if you can change the dual rad for a triple.


----------



## Ragsters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> H220 would come ahead. It is an actual watercooling kit, that is prebuilt. Copper with the H220 vs Aluminum rad for the rest like X60/H100i.
> Good thing that if you can change the dual rad for a triple.


I just wish they sold it with the option for a triple.


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## Sp33d Junki3

triple rad is less common on cases. you can buy one for under $80.
Have to wait and see what is coming at CES


----------



## Ragsters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> triple rad is less common on cases. you can buy one for under $80.
> Have to wait and see what is coming at CES


Yeah, but I would rather spend $160 on the one I want then spend $140 + $80.


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## Sp33d Junki3

Then you could add a single 120/140 rad to back of case and tie them together. Cost about $40


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## Roadkill95

What do you guys think would be better this or a XSPC raystorm 750 RS240?


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## Sp33d Junki3

It varies. The XSPC you build, fill and test yourself. Shiftech is install and done.
The H220 is for people who wants to watercool, but do not want to build it. But be better than what is currently out there with AIO.


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## Roadkill95

I'm ok with building it myself if it gives me better temperatures. Considering that the rad sizes are gonna be the same, would it be worth all that extra effort building the XSPC kit?


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> I'm ok with building it myself if it gives me better temperatures. Considering that the rad sizes are gonna be the same, would it be worth all that extra effort building the XSPC kit?


Depend on pump and Fan imo, the h220 have a 3krpm version of ADII pump and two Swift tech helix fans, so if the XSPC kit features a stronger pump/stronger fans it might overpower h220.


----------



## Roadkill95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> Depend on pump and Fan imo, the h220 have a 3krpm version of ADII pump and two Swift tech helix fans, so if the XSPC kit features a stronger pump/stronger fans it might overpower h220.


It has this pump+ reservoir.

http://www.xs-pc.com/products/pumps/x2o-750-dual-bayrespump-black-v4/

I'm a noob when it comes to watercooling, would you be able to guesstimate which pump would yield me better temps? I'd really appreciate it


----------



## GingerJohn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> Any reason why they went with 220mm instead of the popular 240mm and now 280mm?


It is a 240mm rad, named by the sometimes confusing naming system that Swiftech used on their radiators:

MCR_XYY_ - _X_ is number of fans, _YY_ is size

120mm rad - MCR120
240mm rad - MCR220
360mm rad - MCR320
480mm rad - MCR420 (NOT a 3 x 140mm rad)

140mm rad - MCR140
280mm rad - MCR240 (NOT a 2 x 120mm rad)

I know.

Presumably if they come out with a 120, 140 or 280 version they will be called the H120, H140 and H240 respectively.

Edit: And is sounds like the rad will be ~34mm thick, as it is using the same core as the MCR220.


----------



## yoi

at this point , the Swifttech is more neatier than the Rasa kit , and i prefer that because it could fit easily on a smaller case and the option of just putting another rad and a gpu block to the loop all neatly without space for pump and a reservoir is a huge plus for m atx and m itx cases and custom builders alike

the kraken is 0 upgradeability

on the other hand , i bet the rasa kit would be better for MUCH higher upgradeability like 2 360 rads and more waterblocks to pass through


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## ivanlabrie

But isn't the pump really strong? I wanna see some reviews asap...and I want one


----------



## GingerJohn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yoi*
> 
> on the other hand , i bet the rasa kit would be better for MUCH higher upgradeability like 2 360 rads and more waterblocks to pass through


The problem with the Rasa kit is the X2O 750 pump - it is not very powerful at all. It is fine for a CPU loop, and will manage a CPU + GPU + 1Rad loop, but any more than that and it starts to struggle a little.

The Raystorm kit, newer and slightly more expensive, has the much better MCP655 pump in it which can easily handle a more complex loop.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> But isn't the pump really strong? I wanna see some reviews asap...and I want one


The MCP35x is a very strong pump indeed, however it also has PWM control so it can be easily turned down. I suspect in this loop that you would not have to run it much above its minimum power to get the best out of the cooler.

Edit: Spelling


----------



## BodenM

I hope they make a 120mm version of this, my case hasn't got the mountings for a 240mm radiator, nor the space to mod it in there.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GingerJohn*
> 
> The problem with the Rasa kit is the X2O 750 pump - it is not very powerful at all. It is fine for a CPU loop, and will manage a CPU + GPU + 1Rad loop, but any more than that and it starts to struggle a little.
> The Raystorm kit, newer and slightly more expensive, has the much better MCP655 pump in it which can easily handle a more complex loop.
> The MCP35x is a very strong pump indeed, however it also has PWM control so it can be easily turned down. I suspect in this loop that you would not have to run it much above its minimum power to get the best out of the cooler.
> Edit: Spelling


Thanks man, I'm loving this kit and decided to ditch the Eisberg or a full custom loop for budget and patience constraints








Plus it seems like it will be a beast!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BodenM*
> 
> I hope they make a 120mm version of this, my case hasn't got the mountings for a 240mm radiator, nor the space to mod it in there.


Which case is it? I find it hard to believe you can't fit it somewhere with some modding.


----------



## xPrestonn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Thanks man, I'm loving this kit and decided to ditch the Eisberg or a full custom loop for budget and patience constraints
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus it seems like it will be a beast!
> Which case is it? I find it hard to believe you can't fit it somewhere with some modding.


SG09, it's right in his sig


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xPrestonn*
> 
> SG09, it's right in his sig


Oh, dang!







my bad...
I originally wanted one of those actually, but for an air cooled rig. Gonna give it some thought.

Do you guys think adding a dedicated res and ditching the rad/res would improve performance noticeably? Not familiar with that rad's performance...I was thinking of using my 220cfm pwm fans but they sound like massive overkill for that rad. (the plan is adding a second rad and/or res for a gpu loop, a higher fpi one)


----------



## fatlardo

Cool, this may be my first water.


----------



## Frozenoblivion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> Logitech is next lol


+1 for this.


----------



## Reload_X

i like the price, lets see the performance


----------



## Foolsmasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Reload_X*
> 
> i like the price, lets see the performance


This will have the best cooling per DB of fan noise of any all in one, pretty much guaranteed. I'm interested to see how easy it is to add additional blocks and rads.


----------



## Roadkill95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GingerJohn*
> 
> The problem with the Rasa kit is the X2O 750 pump - it is not very powerful at all. It is fine for a CPU loop, and will manage a CPU + GPU + 1Rad loop, but any more than that and it starts to struggle a little.
> The Raystorm kit, newer and slightly more expensive, has the much better MCP655 pump in it which can easily handle a more complex loop.
> The MCP35x is a very strong pump indeed, however it also has PWM control so it can be easily turned down. I suspect in this loop that you would not have to run it much above its minimum power to get the best out of the cooler.
> Edit: Spelling


Correct me if I'm wrong but this raystorm comes with a x20 750 pump?

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/16891/ex-wat-219/XSPC_Raystorm_750_RS240_Extreme_Universal_CPU_Water_Cooling_Kit_New_Rev_4_Pump_Included_w_Free_Dead-Water.html

I'm really confused as to which one I should get. All I need is a CPU cooler because my GPU temps are absolutely fine.


----------



## Neo Zuko

If this was out when I bought my H100i, I would have bought the Swiftech instead. To those who say the H80i is better, well perhaps in relative temps, but not in noise I would wager. I believe the H100 was reported to be much quieter than the H80. The Swiftech fans are a good sub for the GT AP-15s, but not quite better than the GTs. However, they are more than good enough to use which is more than you can say for the H100i's fans. This new Swiftech product is tempting if I wanted to save money and just spend that watercooling fund on other things... I'd only cool the CPU and a GPU. However, my CaseLabs Merlin case would eat that for breakfast and ask for seconds. And customizing your watercooling parts is half the fun.

One question: Where is the expansion ports?


----------



## Foolsmasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> If this was out when I bought my H100i, I would have bought the Swiftech instead. To those who say the H80i is better, well perhaps in relative temps, but not in noise I would wager. I believe the H100 was reported to be much quieter than the H80. The Swiftech fans are a good sub for the GT AP-15s, but not quite better than the GTs. However, they are more than good enough to use which is more than you can say for the H100i's fans. This new Swiftech product is tempting if I wanted to save money and just spend that watercooling fund on other things... I'd only cool the CPU and a GPU. However, my CaseLabs Merlin case would eat that for breakfast and ask for seconds. And customizing your watercooling parts is half the fun.
> One question: Where is the expansion ports?


Customizing your parts is a lot of fun....in a full size case. I think mATX builds are trending up right now and integrating lots of custom parts into the cases can be troublesome. This REALLY simplifies a lot of those headaches, and will no doubt be competitive with a custom loop's performance.

I think this is definitely worth the premium over the Corsair AIO's.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> The rad should be 2x120mm. 280mm is an issue, as many case still do not have the standard spacing nor many case support 2x140mm.
> The rad would be 34mm, as is what they current have setup in there line up.
> You can fit in your case, just set it up as pull, not push.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> please let rad be no more thicker than 30mm...I need it to fit in my case.
> Any reason why they went with 220mm instead of the popular 240mm and now 280mm?


220 is just part of Swiftech's normal naming scheme saying that it's 2- 120mm. It's still a 240 rad. just like their 280 rad is called the MCR240 and their 480 rad (which I have 2 of) is called the MCR420.

BTW, this thing will perform just like a custom loop of the same size. The pump is a brand new Swiftech mini-pump that flows equal to the MCP35X up to 3K RPM. The difference is that 3K RPM is the max for the new pump, while the max on the MCP35X is 4200 RPM. The block in this kit is essentially an Apogee HD, which is arguably the best performing block there is.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Yeah, I think the value is extremely good...I still debate if I should get this or a custom loop with the rad and pump I want.








Ah, decisions...139 vs 240usd though, gonna have to do some thinking.


----------



## Phelan

For anyone curious as to the performance of the pump on this unit, let me say this. I have an Apogee Drive II, which has the MCP35X pump. I used it in my last build that had a GPU full cover block, 2 480 mm radiators, and a dual bay res all in the same loop running serial. The pump never even sweat and NEVER ran more than 2500-3000 RPM. This new pump is miniatures version that has a very high life rating at the 3K RPM max, and it runs quieter than the MCP35X. On top of that, performance is identical to an MCP35X up to 3K RPM. So to me, this unit is a no-brainer.


----------



## twitchyzero

i'm shocked at the lack of press release on this thing at CES
wondering if this is due in the next month or two or are they planning to wait for Haswell's release in June?

I mean the Eisberg was announced last march but it's still no where in sight...tired of playing that waiting game


----------



## Shadow_Foxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> i'm shocked at the lack of press release on this thing at CES
> wondering if this is due in the next month or two or are they planning to wait for Haswell's release in June?
> I mean the Eisberg was announced last march but it's still no where in sight...tired of playing that waiting game


I know, where is the eisberg!?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

I know I waited for the eisberg to show. With problems with the pump like noise, change of builder. Put a big delay.
Now Swiftech is different than Coolermaster, this will come out much faster, and should be a great unit.


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadow_Foxx*
> 
> I know, where is the eisberg!?


There were a bunch of issues with the review units, most notably a horribly loud pump. The performance also fell way short of what people were expecting from it. Supposedly Cooler Master pulled it to rework some of the issues and left a big question mark for the release date.

That said, with the H220 coming out, it seems like the Eisberg is largely irrelevant. The H220 should give similar performance to a custom loop while coming in at $140, markedly cheaper than the Eisberg's released MSRP.


----------



## GingerJohn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Now Swiftech is different than Coolermaster, this will come out much faster,.


Agreed, after all a lot of the things are already proven products, or very similar to them at least, so a lot of the work is already done. Added to that is a lot of experience of making water cooling parts.

I was going to build a loop using a Apogee drive for a HTPC build in the near future, now I am quite tempted to look at one of these units.


----------



## yoi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GingerJohn*
> 
> Agreed, after all a lot of the things are already proven products, or very similar to them at least, so a lot of the work is already done. Added to that is a lot of experience of making water cooling parts.
> 
> I was going to build a loop using a Apogee drive for a HTPC build in the near future, now I am quite tempted to look at one of these units.


im in the same dilema as you ... i think im gonna buy the H220 and get a 120 rad and cool a GPU







all neat and clean


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yoi*
> 
> im in the same dilema as you ... i think im gonna buy the H220 and get a 120 rad and cool a GPU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> all neat and clean


Same boat, it's so tempting really...I think a 240 would be better.
Something like the mcr220-xp, which is a beast and is cheap.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Same boat, it's so tempting really...I think a 240 would be better.
> Something like the mcr220-xp, which is a beast and is cheap.


The H220 IS a 240 rad. 220 is part of Swiftech's naming scheme.

EDIT- My bad, just caught the context of the post lol.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> The H220 IS a 240 rad. 220 is part of Swiftech's naming scheme.
> 
> EDIT- My bad, just caught the context of the post lol.


Haha...yeah but still, I'd better clarify.

I think the mcr220-xp would be a nice compliment to this bundle, for a gpu block in the loop.


----------



## $ilent

How is this new swiftech AIO different from their offering here - http://www.overclockers.com/swiftech-h20220-edge-liquid-cooling-kit-review/

???


----------



## stephenm

Hey guys,

The new H220 kit is closer to the new Swiftech Elite kit series than the Edge series.

So this new kit is based on the APD2 waterblock/pump combo but instead of using the MCP35X we've designed and produced a new pump specifically for this new product.

The radiator is the same as the copper/brass based MCR220-QP-Res (same core and fin density w/ fill port) with very minor modifications to make the product more user friendly, a little more compact. It comes with a pair of Helix120-PWM already attached and our PWM splitter.

Tubing is a thick wall 3/8" ID by 5/8" OD and black. Both waterblock/pump and radiator have swivel fittings (3/8" barb) and come with a new aluminum clamped that is easy to use and reusable.

It's basically a AIO LC unit with enough radiator capacity and pumping power to be expanded to a fully custom/enthusiast loop.

Of course the unit comes already filled up and ready to use.

We are still in CES right now, and have a few pictures to share:

#1

this is our setup with 4 identical systems
* 4 Nanoxia DS1 case
* 4 Asus Maximus Formula V
* 4 Intel 3770K
* 4 Kingston KHX1600 memory
* 4 Kingston 2k SSD's
* 3 EVGA GTX660 Ti's on 3 of the 4 systems
and 2 EVGA GTX680 Hydrocopper for the 4th systems
All systems are overclocked to the same speed 4.6GHz, same voltage, etc
1 system runs the Swiftech H220
1 system runs the Corsair H100i
1 system runs the Thermaltake Water 2.0 Extreme
last system also runs our H220 system but with 2 GTX680 liquid cooled and also a VR/Chipset water block

#2

This is a close up of the H220 Waterblock/pump our 5th system
This 5th system runs a 3970K, 2x 7900 series graphics cards, the H220 system and 2 additional radiators (MCR220QP / MCR240QP). The idea here is to demonstrate how this single pump can run multiple blocks/rads..

#3

that same 5th system

#4


#5


if you have any question, we'll try and answer asap =)


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> All systems are overclocked to the same speed 4.6GHz, same voltage, etc
> 1 system runs the Swiftech H220
> 1 system runs the Corsair H100i
> 1 system runs the Thermaltake Water 2.0 Extreme
> last system also runs our H220 system but with 2 GTX680 liquid cooled and also a VR/Chipset water block


You can't tease that and then not tell us the temps under load for each of them.


----------



## GingerJohn

What coolant is used in the system?

Can you give dimensions for the radiator? I notice the size of the plenum has been reduced on the barb end.


----------



## $ilent

I would also like to see temps for this so that I can compare it and maybe buy one of these of its capable of effectively cooling GPU and CPU.


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*


Kudos on the single cable coming from the block. It makes for an extremely clean build.









Any chance of an AIO 280mm in the near future?









More importantly, any possibility of the 8-way PWM splitter being sold separately? Because that is very nice indeed.


----------



## stephenm

yes we plan on releasing it with different radiators








And yes also for the PWM splitter

I'll post the temperatures in a few minutes, we are doing a demo to the press as I am typing this.

When we get back to the office and work on the product page we'll post all the dimensions


----------



## stephenm

here are the results:



it's a small piece of VB we wrote last week to summarize the numbers on a single screen, we run this on a laptop that reads coretemp logs off the 4 systems (Swiftech H220, Corsair H100i, Thermaltake Water 2.0 Extreme, Swiftech H220 w/ 2x GTX680 in Sli (in parallel) and chipset/VR block - no additional radiator, no additional pump).

in the demo all systems run at ~1,400 RPM to compare at approximately the same noise level.

for reference the H220 which runs Helix120-PWM fans can run at 800 RPM in silent/inaudible mode and up to 1,800 RPM in full speed mode (TT/corsair's lowest speed is about 1,300 RPM and they can go up to 2,200 / 2,700 RPM respectively).

any question, just ask =)


----------



## Phelan

EPIC.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

If I ask nicely, can I have a H220.


----------



## stephenm

I forgot to respond to the coolant question: we use a reformulation of our HydrX (distilled water, propylene glycol instead of ethylene glycol, anti corrosion, anti fungal, etc) to be compliant with all standards (EU/US/etc) - this time it is blue although you won't see it unless you are adding/replacing tubing/reservoir/etc. And since we use 100% copper/brass there is no need for special chemicals to fight Aluminum/Copper chemical reactions which also degrade coolant thermal properties quite a bit...


----------



## LongRod




----------



## GingerJohn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> any question, just ask =)


What does the colour red taste like?

Release date?


----------



## DoktorCreepy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> here are the results:
> 
> 
> 
> it's a small piece of VB we wrote last week to summarize the numbers on a single screen, we run this on a laptop that reads coretemp logs off the 4 systems (Swiftech H220, Corsair H100i, Thermaltake Water 2.0 Extreme, Swiftech H220 w/ 2x GTX680 in Sli (in parallel) and chipset/VR block - no additional radiator, no additional pump).
> 
> in the demo all systems run at ~1,400 RPM to compare at approximately the same noise level.
> 
> for reference the H220 which runs Helix120-PWM fans can run at 800 RPM in silent/inaudible mode and up to 1,800 RPM in full speed mode (TT/corsair's lowest speed is about 1,300 RPM and they can go up to 2,200 / 2,700 RPM respectively).
> 
> any question, just ask =)


When will these be available?

Great work on these units and the benching info.


----------



## $ilent

stephen can you do some tests and post the results of how this thing cools an overclock ivy bridge or sandy bridge cpu?

I would be looking to know how it compares to my prolimatech megahalems air cooler (70C at 1.43v, 4.8ghz)

thanks


----------



## King4x4

He just stated 3770k @4.6ghz and 77'C!


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> stephen can you do some tests and post the results of how this thing cools an overclock ivy bridge or sandy bridge cpu?
> 
> I would be looking to know how it compares to my prolimatech megahalems air cooler (70C at 1.43v, 4.8ghz)
> 
> thanks


this data is on an ivy bridge 3770K @ 4,600 MHz with fans at ~ 1,400 RPM. temperatures on Sandy Bridge would be substantially lower at these settings.


----------



## DoktorCreepy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> stephen can you do some tests and post the results of how this thing cools an overclock ivy bridge or sandy bridge cpu?
> 
> I would be looking to know how it compares to my prolimatech megahalems air cooler (70C at 1.43v, 4.8ghz)
> 
> thanks


His post on page 10 says they are all 3770K's at 4.6ghz.

Edit- wow hes fast.


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> here are the results:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> it's a small piece of VB we wrote last week to summarize the numbers on a single screen, we run this on a laptop that reads coretemp logs off the 4 systems (Swiftech H220, Corsair H100i, Thermaltake Water 2.0 Extreme, Swiftech H220 w/ 2x GTX680 in Sli (in parallel) and chipset/VR block - no additional radiator, no additional pump).
> 
> in the demo all systems run at ~1,400 RPM to compare at approximately the same noise level.
> 
> for reference the H220 which runs Helix120-PWM fans can run at 800 RPM in silent/inaudible mode and up to 1,800 RPM in full speed mode (TT/corsair's lowest speed is about 1,300 RPM and they can go up to 2,200 / 2,700 RPM respectively).
> 
> any question, just ask =)


Definitely some nice performance there. It's handily beating the H100i and beating the Water 2.0 Extreme by a small, but nice, margin. Not worth upgrading to for me, but definitely a nice option for people looking to jump to water cooling and makes the jump to a more custom loop that much easier once they catch the water cooling bug. The performance with a pair of 680s under water is pretty sexy.

Any plans for offering the setup with clear tubing instead of black from your website? I like the black, but clear is a nice option for those wanting to swap for distilled and some Mayhems dye or for those who just want to see the liquid.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nubbinator*
> 
> Definitely some nice performance there. It's handily beating the H100i and beating the Water 2.0 Extreme by a small, but nice, margin. Not worth upgrading to for me, but definitely a nice option for people looking to jump to water cooling and makes the jump to a more custom loop that much easier once they catch the water cooling bug. The performance with a pair of 680s under water is pretty sexy.
> 
> Any plans for offering the setup with clear tubing instead of black from your website? I like the black, but clear is a nice option for those wanting to swap for distilled and some Mayhems dye or for those who just want to see the liquid.


It would be a nice upgrade, as you can add a gpu block and like they said will come in larger size rads.


----------



## $ilent

Oh i thought he said it was test results with 2x gtx 680 in sli in aswell?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nubbinator*
> 
> Definitely some nice performance there. It's handily beating the H100i and beating the Water 2.0 Extreme by a small, but nice, margin. Not worth upgrading to for me, but definitely a nice option for people looking to jump to water cooling and makes the jump to a more custom loop that much easier once they catch the water cooling bug. The performance with a pair of 680s under water is pretty sexy.
> 
> Any plans for offering the setup with clear tubing instead of black from your website? I like the black, but clear is a nice option for those wanting to swap for distilled and some Mayhems dye or for those who just want to see the liquid.


Anyone wanting to use Mayhems could just replace the tubing for like $6. Just buy 3' of clear tubing. If you can find it local it would be less than $2.


----------



## Pheatton

Might be a candidate to replace my H70. Now I wonder if this can replace the large fan in the top of my Antec 1100?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> Oh i thought he said it was test results with 2x gtx 680 in sli in aswell?


the 4th system is the one with same CPU, settings, but chipset/VR block + 2 GTX680 is SLi

the 5th system isn't being compared to others mainly because we're running 3 radiators

edit: that being said if you want I can post a screenshot, it's being running Unigine and half a dozen instances of CPU burn for a 4 hours in silent mode
edit: i'll post that shortly


----------



## stephenm

there you go:



3930K @ 4500MHz
2x 7900 series
H220 stock + 2x EVGA Hydrocopper Blocks for GTX680 + 1x MCR220QP + 1x MCR240QP
all fans are running at 1,000 RPM


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> It would be a nice upgrade, as you can add a gpu block and like they said will come in larger size rads.


Not really. It'd make more sense to move to a custom loop or do "the mod" to my video card if I wanted to put it under water.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Anyone wanting to use Mayhems could just replace the tubing for like $6. Just buy 3' of clear tubing. If you can find it local it would be less than $2.


True, tubing is cheap, but it would be nice to have the option from the OEM. Remember, most people buying AIO setups are lazy, cheap, or both. Having the option from the OEM to have clear tubing would definitely appeal to the lazy and the cheap who don't have the tools to cut the tubing nicely.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Thanks for the results Steven, I first saw Gabe's thread at XS and wanted to see this in action so bad...








It looks like a winner, but I wanted an mcr-220-xp not the qp! I already got 220cfm fans for it hehe.


----------



## $ilent

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> there you go:
> 
> 3930K @ 4500MHz
> 2x 7900 series
> H220 stock + 2x EVGA Hydrocopper Blocks for GTX680 + 1x MCR220QP + 1x MCR240QP
> all fans are running at 1,000 RPM


So let me get this straight, im getting confused theres so many temps being posted:

with 2x 7900 cards and 3930K in the temps max out on cpu at 68C and 53C on the gpu?
with 2x gtx 680 in SLI and 3930K in the temps max out at 82C on the cpu?


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> So let me get this straight, im getting confused theres so many temps being posted:
> 
> with 2x 7900 cards and 3930K in the temps max out on cpu at 68C and 53C on the gpu?
> with 2x gtx 680 in SLI and 3930K in the temps max out at 82C on the cpu?


Dual gtx 680 in SLI(4) set up have *no extra Rads*, the 2X7900 & 3930K setup(5) *have extra Radiators*.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Hey guys,
> 
> #1
> 
> this is our setup with 4 identical systems
> * 4 Nanoxia DS1 case
> * 4 Asus Maximus Formula V
> * 4 Intel 3770K
> * 4 Kingston KHX1600 memory
> * 4 Kingston 2k SSD's
> * 3 EVGA GTX660 Ti's on 3 of the 4 systems
> and 2 EVGA GTX680 Hydrocopper for the 4th systems
> All systems are overclocked to the same speed 4.6GHz, same voltage, etc
> 1 system runs the Swiftech H220
> 1 system runs the Corsair H100i
> 1 system runs the Thermaltake Water 2.0 Extreme
> *last system also runs our H220 system but with 2 GTX680 liquid cooled and also a VR/Chipset water block*
> 
> This is a close up of the H220 Waterblock/pump our 5th system
> This 5th system runs a 3970K, 2x 7900 series graphics cards, the H220 system and *2 additional radiators (MCR220QP / MCR240QP)*. The idea here is to demonstrate how this single pump can run multiple blocks/rads..
> 
> if you have any question, we'll try and answer asap =)


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> So let me get this straight, im getting confused theres so many temps being posted:
> 
> with 2x 7900 cards and 3930K in the temps max out on cpu at 68C and 53C on the gpu?
> with 2x gtx 680 in SLI and 3930K in the temps max out at 82C on the cpu?


you got it right. only difference is that the GTX680 are idling while the CPU is fully loaded on the one radiator included with H220. GTX680 temperatures are low since on idle.

on the 3930K system, both GPU and CPU are on load.


----------



## $ilent

ah was gonna say the 2x 7900 and cpu temps were really good, but it has an extra rad in the loop!


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nubbinator*
> 
> Not really. It'd make more sense to move to a custom loop or do "the mod" to my video card if I wanted to put it under water.
> True, tubing is cheap, but it would be nice to have the option from the OEM. Remember, most people buying AIO setups are lazy, cheap, or both. Having the option from the OEM to have clear tubing would definitely appeal to the lazy and the cheap who don't have the tools to cut the tubing nicely.


I think that market is very small and those people would just as likely just buy a regular AIO.


----------



## Ragsters

I don't get something. When does it not become a closed loop system? As soon as you take apart the kit? If there is no reservoir in the kit then when is it necessary to use one? If I decide to buy a kit and add a 360 rad and a gpu block do I need to buy a reservoir?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ragsters*
> 
> I don't get something. When does it not become a closed loop system? As soon as you take apart the kit? If there is no reservoir in the kit then when is it necessary to use one? If I decide to buy a kit and add a 360 rad and a gpu block do I need to buy a reservoir?


]

This has a built-in reservoir but it's 100% full. So until it's opened up, it's a CLC.


----------



## stephenm

it's a closed loop because it comes filled up and ready to use, plug and play.
our radiator features a reservoir - and it's only there to ease/allow feeling up and priming without the need of an external reservoir.

so if you want to add another radiator and GPU block, just open up the reservoir cap, drain the liquid out, take off the clamps (philips screw driver), take off the tube, add tubing, waterblock/rad/etc, reinstall clamp, refill and you're in business - no need for a separate reservoir. Possibilities are pretty much endless, say you want a bay reservoir and a second pump for redundancy? you can add a Maelstrom for example.


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> I think that market is very small and those people would just as likely just buy a regular AIO.


See, I disagree. Not everyone is going to want to add to the loop later, though I'm sure many will since they have that capability; however, having different tubing from the shop would increase production costs marginally, but would give them one more thing to set them apart. It's not hard for them to have clear and black, maybe even white, tubing ready to go in assembly and just put some together with different colored tubing. People who buy AIOs usually do so because they want something easy, different tubing from the shop is easy and appeals to the buyer's own aesthetic.


----------



## tsm106

I was wondering when Swifty would counter the Eisberg. The Swifty setup looks much more substantial with its AD2 foundation.


----------



## stephenm

@nubbinator: you are right it's not a big problem to do for us - we know our customers like this very much and we try to do that as much as can. But actually, it's more of a distribution problem to carry and to stock quantities of the same product in different colors and tastes. I guess it's difficult for channels to figure out the right ratio of color X and Y, etc. We listen to end users and every time the demand is high enough we'll go along


----------



## $ilent

How would this build compare to the likes of an xspc raystorm RX360 or rasa rx360? The raystorm is £211, rx360 about £160, what will be the UK price stephen?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *$ilent*
> 
> How would this build compare to the likes of an xspc raystorm RX360 or rasa rx360? The raystorm is £211, rx360 about £160, what will be the UK price stephen?


You compare a 360 to a 240. Big difference. Not many people case support a 360 rad.


----------



## $ilent

I meant more sort of along the lines of having two rads, like was used to get those 7900s and 3930k at 60C


----------



## stephenm

not sure about what the street price will end up at in the UK yet.
And we'll most likely have a H320 kit


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> not sure about what the street price will end up at in the UK yet.
> And we'll most likely have a H320 kit


I'd buy that, specially if there is an XP version


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> I'd buy that, specially if there is an XP version


Would really love to buy the H240 version


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> Would really love to buy the H240 version


May I ask what case you are using?


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> Would really love to buy the H240 version


140mm rads? 140mm fans are kinda meh atm...but Swiftech can do some magicks probably and make it work


----------



## Ricey20

any idea on a release date stephen?


----------



## Ragsters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> not sure about what the street price will end up at in the UK yet.
> And we'll most likely have a H320 kit


I can't believe it took this long for it to be said that a 3x120mm version will come out as well. How long after the 220 will the 320 come out?


----------



## stephenm

actually our 140mm radiator series work pretty well with Helix140 - the only true concern with the 240 form factor is case compatibility. We see more and more compatible cases but we're still far from the wide range of case compatible with dual 120 rads.


----------



## EternalRest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricey20*
> 
> any idea on a release date stephen?


Only question I have.. is this


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> actually our 140mm radiator series work pretty well with Helix140 - the only true concern with the 240 form factor is case compatibility. We see more and more compatible cases but we're still far from the wide range of case compatible with dual 120 rads.


I'd never doubt that








Performance and bang/buck ratios are definitely there!
And, compatibility is understandable, you gotta sell the thing after all...


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EternalRest*
> 
> Only question I have.. is this


most likely second half to end of February


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> 140mm rads? 140mm fans are kinda meh atm...but Swiftech can do some magicks probably and make it work


Have you seen Swiftech's Helix 140 fans? They have IMO Phenomenal performance:noise ratio, and very high Static pressure for excellent raddage.


----------



## TheGovernment

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> most likely second half to end of February


awwwww ya!!!! I'm gonna get me one for my switch 810!


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> May I ask what case you are using?


Since I also inquired about a 280mm, I would use it in a BitFenix Ghost, which has plenty of room. I presume the 16mm hole spacing on the MCR240-QP is close enough to the 15mm spacing on the case?


----------



## stephenm

yeah it still works @ 16mm







but now that case manufacturers seem to agree on 15mm for dual 140 we'll probably adjust that - especially for H240 if we decide to make it


----------



## shellbunner

So how will this H220 and eventual H320 compare to your Elite 320 kit that just came out?
I was going to purchase the Elite, but now I can't decide.
My Caselabs Merlin SM8 should fit either one.
I'm going to be most likely running 2 of the next gen video cards under water with one of these systems also.
Thank you


----------



## ivanlabrie

You'll dominate the AIO market with these things!








I like where this is heading...Plenty of options, hopefully this H220 version does well and we can start seeing the other variants.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shellbunner*
> 
> So how will this H220 and eventual H320 compare to your Elite 320 kit that just came out?
> I was going to purchase the Elite, but now I can't decide.
> My Caselabs Merlin SM8 should fit either one.
> I'm going to be most likely running 2 of the next gen video cards under water with one of these systems also.
> Thank you


typical difference between a 220 and a 320 - about 50% more capacity, so it will depend on your heat load, for example if you have a delta air-water of 10 degrees on a 220 loop, switching to a 320 will drop your water temperature by 3-4 degrees - the higher the heat load the bigger the gain when switching from dual to triple.


----------



## Tom Thumb

How thick is the rad?


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> How thick is the rad?


34mm like the regular mcr220-qp, right?


----------



## Tom Thumb

So this thing isn't going to fit in the top of a Corsair 600t then.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> 34mm like the regular mcr220-qp, right?


no, we reduced the thickness by ~ 5-6 mm to improve compatibility between mid-size chassis. note that we did that by reducing the skirt on the opposite side of the fans which isn't need since most users will not do any push pull. They can still install fans but the skirt is much smaller on that side. the radiator is the same (tube size, fin density).

for example, for the demo here at CES we have these systems installed in a mid tower Nanoxia DS1 chassis. It's fairly small case!


----------



## Tom Thumb

I think this will work then!


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> 34mm like the regular mcr220-qp, right?


no, we reduced the thickness by ~ 5-6 mm to improve compatibility between mid-size chassis. note that we did that by reducing the skirt on the opposite side of the fans which isn't need since most users will not do any push pull. They can still install fans but the skirt is much smaller on that side. the radiator is the same (tube size, fin density).

for example, for the demo here at CES we have these systems installed in a mid tower Nanoxia DS1 chassis. It's fairly small case!


----------



## MerkageTurk

800D? Compatible?


----------



## Shadow_Foxx

Im sure this has already in this thread somewhere, but will the pump/block unit be purchased seperately?


----------



## shellbunner

Thx for the answers Stephen.
So as far as I can tell, the Elite kits you currently sell are just beefier components?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> no, we reduced the thickness by ~ 5-6 mm to improve compatibility between mid-size chassis. note that we did that by reducing the skirt on the opposite side of the fans which isn't need since most users will not do any push pull. They can still install fans but the skirt is much smaller on that side. the radiator is the same (tube size, fin density).
> 
> for example, for the demo here at CES we have these systems installed in a mid tower Nanoxia DS1 chassis. It's fairly small case!


So what is the thickness of the rad then?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> 800D? Compatible?


What? You're joking?


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> So what is the thickness of the rad then?


If the original is 34mm thick and they cut around 5-6mm... how thick it is? I wonder sometimes if people read or not...









*@shellbunner:* for what I've read, the H220 uses a new pump designed in-house (nope, not a Laing DDC), that performs just as well as their Laing-based Apogee Drive II @ 3k rpm. I read somewhere that they are going to update their current bundles but I'm sure Stephen will comment on it


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> If the original is 34mm thick and they cut around 5-6mm... how thick it is? I wonder sometimes if people read or not...


That dont mean anything. I read it, but actual confirmation of exact thickness is important.


----------



## Biorganic

Cannot wait for February. I am strongly considering this kit for my first foray into H2O cooling.

Thank you Stephen for all the info. +1


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> That dont mean anything. I read it, but actual confirmation of exact thickness is important.


Original thickness minus ~5-6 mm isn't accurate enough? You want in microns?


----------



## MerkageTurk

I am serious.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shellbunner*
> 
> Thx for the answers Stephen.
> So as far as I can tell, the Elite kits you currently sell are just beefier components?


The only performance difference between this unit and the Elite unit is that the Elite has a higher RPM pump, the MCP35X. Up to 3K RPM, the pumps perform identical, though I believe the new one is quieter. The other components are effectively the same. The rad has a smaller skirt to make it fit more cases but it performs the same as the MCR220-QP-RES found in the elite kit.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadow_Foxx*
> 
> Im sure this has already in this thread somewhere, but will the pump/block unit be purchased seperately?


If I read correctly, the pump will soon be available separately, but I don't know about the pump/block combo.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> May I ask what case you are using?


Fractal Design Define R4. Although if the 280mm radiator don't fit I am planning on moving to the NZXT Switch 810 which would have no issue fitting 280 Rad(Switch can easily fit 360/420 rad actually). If you want to know how many people would like a 280mm AIO solution, monitoring how well the NZXT X60 Kraken sells would be a good option.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> Fractal Design Define R4. Although if the 280mm radiator don't fit I am planning on moving to the NZXT Switch 810 which would have no issue fitting 280 Rad(Switch can easily fit 360/420 rad actually).


The switch 810 has issues with 280 rads. As it uses 20mm spacing. NZXT releases a revised panel that support 15mm & 20mm, but need to buy there X60 to get one right now. Why Swiftech releases a 280 rad, it will most likely be 15mm spacing.
So either NZXT sends you the revised top or you need to modify the 810.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> The switch 810 has issues with 280 rads. As it uses 20mm spacing. NZXT releases a revised panel that support 15mm & 20mm, but need to buy there X60 to get one right now. The H220 is using 15mm spacing.
> So either NZXT sends you the revised top or you need to modify the 810.


OK, so if I goes 810 I'll just get the 320 version. But judging by what I heard so far on Rad thickness I might have a shot at fitting 220 or 240 in my R4.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Yes the R4 uses 15mm spacing on there case for 280 rads.


----------



## JAM3S121

do you guys think it would be easier to change the tubing? I'm not much of a w/c'er but i'm thinking of buying this and expanding it later on


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JAM3S121*
> 
> do you guys think it would be easier to change the tubing? I'm not much of a w/c'er but i'm thinking of buying this and expanding it later on


Yes it is easy once you know how. You drain all fluid. Unscrew the fittings, remove tubes. Then reverse order, last part check for leaks.
Its like any watercooling build that you do once you take apart.
There is lots of tutorials on watercooling.


----------



## twitchyzero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> no, we reduced the thickness by ~ 5-6 mm to improve compatibility between mid-size chassis. note that we did that by reducing the skirt on the opposite side of the fans which isn't need since most users will not do any push pull. They can still install fans but the skirt is much smaller on that side. the radiator is the same (tube size, fin density).
> 
> for example, for the demo here at CES we have these systems installed in a mid tower Nanoxia DS1 chassis. It's fairly small case!


Hi Stephen,

Thanks so much for your responses...your competitors failed to respond to their potential customers and now seeing the peformance/price of your product is superb I'm most definitely getting one.

I am also curious for the exact dimensions..judging from your response it's 128x284x29mm?

Will it fit in Cosrair Carbide 500R that has 20mm fan spacing?

Really looking forward to getting this in my system before I get a chance to run Crysis 3 in March...gonna need all the overclocking potential I can get









Cheers.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> Hi Stephen,
> 
> Thanks so much for your responses...your competitors failed to respond to their potential customers and now seeing the peformance/price of your product is superb I'm most definitely getting one.
> 
> I am also curious for the exact dimensions..judging from your response it's 128x284x29mm?
> 
> Will it fit in Cosrair Carbide 500R that has 20mm fan spacing?
> 
> Thanks.


The 140mm mounting is 20mm spacing. The H100/H100i (15mm mounting), the H220 is the same.
To confirm, fan side by side touching is 15mm from center to center hole.


----------



## stephenm

thanks for the comments guys








we're wrapping up our demo in LV today, I will try to get back to you asap about the products dimensions, I don't have the drawings/CAD/anything to measure to give a good answer.
any other question, feel free to ask

Stephen =)


----------



## GingerJohn

One of the things I love about Swiftech is the availability of the outline drawings for your products, things like this for example:


Spoiler: pic












Source: Swiftech product page



Will a similar drawing will be available for this unit?

I want to add that they are really appreciated as it can take a lot of the guesswork out of component compatibility - keep them drawings coming!

Secondly, I'm assuming that the new pump is still powered by molex with a PWM lead to the mobo, is that the case?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GingerJohn*
> 
> One of the things I love about Swiftech is the availability of the outline drawings for your products, things like this for example:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: pic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Source: Swiftech product page
> 
> 
> 
> Will a similar drawing will be available for this unit?
> 
> I want to add that they are really appreciated as it can take a lot of the guesswork out of component compatibility - keep them drawings coming!
> 
> Secondly, I'm assuming that the new pump is still powered by molex with a PWM lead to the mobo, is that the case?


Glad you appreciate it








we will publish drawings on our product page like we do for other products - but I will try to post some dimensions here before the actual product page is up which could take a couple of weeks.

the pump both control wires (RPM/PWM) and power wires (12V/Ground) on a single 4pin connector.
We suggest to connect the pump to the PWM splitter along with the 2 fans (and up to 5 other fans) so that fans and pump RPM's are linked. The PWM splitter has its own 4-pin Molex (PSU type), so there's no power limit out of the splitter.
That being said, if someone wants to run the pump off the motherboard directly it's not a problem as it's only 6W and well within the current output of any CPU fan header


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

I hope you use sata power cable instead, as molex is kinda pointless and annoying now. I dont even have one molex connecting in my case.


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> I hope you use sata power cable instead, as molex is kinda pointless and annoying now. I dont even have one molex connecting in my case.


I agree. I am Molex free thanks to an adapter for my SATA dock. http://www.amazon.com/Sata-LP4-Pin-Power-Adapter/dp/B000NPKGGU/

I would much rather everything just came straight from the factory with SATA power connectors though.


----------



## shellbunner

I'm with them too. No molex in my case. Sata power would be much preferred, but it's definitely not a deal breaker.

I can't wait for this year's new hardware and watercooling products!!!! Good work Swiftech!!!!!


----------



## stephenm

any additional input on this matter is going to be appreciated. It's actually something that we have been discussing actively.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Many of the newer AIO has gone to Sata over Molex. Even my new fan controller has sata connection.
Dont only scrap molex for some people. You can have both at one end. Which give flexibility.


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Many of the newer AIO has gone to Sata over Molex. Even my new fan controller has sata connection.
> Dont only scrap molex for some people. You can have both at one end. Which give flexibility.


Better yet, make it modular if you can. I prefer SATA power to Molex any day. Molex always seems to be more trouble than it's worth, but some people like Molex. If it had to be one or the other though, I'd go with SATA.


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Many of the newer AIO has gone to Sata over Molex. Even my new fan controller has sata connection.
> Dont only scrap molex for some people. You can have both at one end. Which give flexibility.


Ehh, a single connector gives a cleaner look, and is also one less line item on the BOM. Molex or SATA, those who don't prefer the one can use an adapter for the other. But I think it would give a more modern appearance to use a SATA power connector, as well as keep up with the Joneses.


----------



## TheGovernment

I'd prefer sata as well. Thanks for answering everyone's questions Stephen. Cooler Master really dropped the ball when they just went silent and won't answer anything. I'll be looking forward to buying one of these units when they are released.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Understood I like sata too. Just a suggestion.

Linus has a video of the H220 done.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Sata and a molex adapter bundled seems like the smartest approach.


----------



## zinfinion

So when do these go on sale? Cause I am totally sold.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> So when do these go on sale? Cause I am totally sold.


You and me both. More excited after watching the video.


----------



## twitchyzero

they already said aiming for mid to late feb release


----------



## shellbunner

That video was great!!! Thank you!!!


----------



## Captain1337

I can't wait for this.


----------



## Phelan

Stephen, I have a question. Can the barb fittings be removed and replaced with compresion fittings? Just curious.


----------



## twitchyzero

Can my Seasonic 80+Gold 750W be able to run this unit in my system?

3570K (havent attempted OC)
670SLI (OC 400-425W max)
z77X-UD5H
4X4GB ram 30nm green
2 HDD
1 SSD
blu-ray writer
chassis fans: 3x120mm, 1x200mm


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> Can my Seasonic 80+Gold 750W be able to run this unit in my system?


The pump is 6W on a 12V line so that's half an amp if I haven't screwed anything up. So yes.


----------



## Tom Thumb

How exactly are those fans attached to the rad? They're not bolts that go through the fan from one side to the other. Can you remove the fans? If so, how? Don't think you can get a screwdriver through that fan hole to do so. Hmmm. If I can't remove the fans so I can mount the rad inside of the 600t, and the fans on the outside of the case, that not good!


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> How exactly are those fans attached to the rad? They're not bolts that go through the fan from one side to the other. Can you remove the fans? If so, how? Don't think you can get a screwdriver through that fan hole to do so. Hmmm. If I can't remove the fans so I can mount the rad inside of the 600t, and the fans on the outside of the case, that not good!


The fans are pre mounted already, so you do not have to do it yourself. You can get a screw driver through the hole to unscrew them.


----------



## Pogi

Wow, this looks amazing. It's decided! I'll definitely be picking this up. I've always wanted a full watercooling loop and this is as good as it will get for me.

Just out of curiosity, how good is a 6 watt pump compared to most custom WC pumps? Is a 6 watt pump the industry standard?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Stephen, I have a question. Can the barb fittings be removed and replaced with compresion fittings? Just curious.


no you can't - these barb fittings have a built-in swivel and a reliable clamping device


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pogi*
> 
> Wow, this looks amazing. It's decided! I'll definitely be picking this up. I've always wanted a full watercooling loop and this is as good as it will get for me.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, how good is a 6 watt pump compared to most custom WC pumps? Is a 6 watt pump the industry standard?


The pump is well within the industry standard and above several other options. Up to 3K RPM, it performs identical to Swiftech's top of the line pump, the MCP35X (which is arguably the best DDC-based pump period).


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> no you can't - these barb fittings have a built-in swivel and a reliable clamping device


Ok, thanks.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pogi*
> 
> Wow, this looks amazing. It's decided! I'll definitely be picking this up. I've always wanted a full watercooling loop and this is as good as it will get for me.
> 
> Just out of curiosity, how good is a 6 watt pump compared to most custom WC pumps? Is a 6 watt pump the industry standard?


most custom WC loops use a pump that's 8W (MCP350) to 18W(MCP35X) - but it doesn't mean you need this much pumping power. The MCP35X for instance draws 18W when running at 4,500 RPM but it most cases turning it down to 1,500-3,000 RPM (~4-8W) is more than enough

AIO competition runs a pump that's about 1-2W which is typically not enough to run more than 1 block/1 rad.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Would like to know what is the FPi used on the rad?


----------



## Pogi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> The pump is well within the industry standard and above several other options. Up to 3K RPM, it performs identical to Swiftech's top of the line pump, the MCP35X (which is arguably the best DDC-based pump period).


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> most custom WC loops use a pump that's 8W (MCP350) to 18W(MCP35X) - but it doesn't mean you need this much pumping power. The MCP35X for instance draws 18W when running at 4,500 RPM but it most cases turning it down to 1,500-3,000 RPM (~4-8W) is more than enough
> 
> AIO competition runs a pump that's about 1-2W which is typically not enough to run more than 1 block/1 rad.


I see. That sounds great! Thank you (both of you) for clarifying. In the meantime, I'll be waiting for this cooler with bated breath.


----------



## OmarCCX

Just saw Linus' video and it looks ridiculously awesome. I'll probably have to wait for Haswell to build my rig, but I'm definitely going with this.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> How exactly are those fans attached to the rad? They're not bolts that go through the fan from one side to the other. Can you remove the fans? If so, how? Don't think you can get a screwdriver through that fan hole to do so. Hmmm. If I can't remove the fans so I can mount the rad inside of the 600t, and the fans on the outside of the case, that not good!


Hi stephenm! Is this going to be a problem? Thanks.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> Hi stephenm! Is this going to be a problem? Thanks.


Already mentioned. The fans are just premounted for convenience. You can unscrew it as any normal fan.


----------



## Roadkill95

Just saw linus's video, and good god I'm sold!









How hard would it be to fit this in a Zalmann Z11 plus?

http://imageshack.us/a/img839/2479/img1104qj.jpg

Image of the space between roof and rad.


----------



## WarMacheen

Watched the whole video

I'm sold, purchasing the day it comes out.

Excellent looking product with excellent results.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> Just saw linus's video, and good god I'm sold!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How hard would it be to fit this in a Zalmann Z11 plus?
> 
> http://imageshack.us/a/img839/2479/img1104qj.jpg
> 
> Image of the space between roof and rad.


The Z11 is not a case that will fit watercooling. The top fans are not properly spaced. So you will need a new case.
You will need to do some modding.


----------



## starships

Just saw their demo on Linus' video, super impressive. I have to say this product takes some of the appeal out of a custom loop since it is so ridiculously simple. _Some_, not all lol. It's nice to know you could easily recommend this product to friends with no watercooling experience and give them pretty much the same performance.


----------



## Roadkill95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> The Z11 is not a case that will fit watercooling. The top fans are not properly spaced. So you will need a new case.
> You will need to do some modding.


Spaced as in height wise? Can't I get away with modding it, I have a dremel and a drill...

It can fit an h100 without modding though, just pull, no push.
http://uk.hardware.info/usersystems/17605/i7-3770k-met-2xgtx-680-4gb#tabhotos


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> Spaced as in height wise? Can't I get away with modding it, I have a dremel and a drill...
> 
> It can fit an h100 without modding though, just pull, no push.
> http://uk.hardware.info/usersystems/17605/i7-3770k-met-2xgtx-680-4gb#tabhotos


You can not fit any 240 rad in your case. its not the height, with it how the fan is spaced side by side. This is how the fans must be placed to fit a rad.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> You can not fit any 240 rad in your case. its not the height, with it how the fan is spaced side by side. This is how the fans must be placed to fit a rad.


Like he said though, he can just drill new holes... the 4 inside screw holes would be plenty to support it.


----------



## Roadkill95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> You can not fit any 240 rad in your case. its not the height, with it how the fan is spaced side by side. This is how the fans must be placed to fit a rad.


I'm confused now, the h100 uses a 240 rad. How did that guy and some other users manage to fit it in there with next to no modding at all?

Here are some images. This guy's running push/pull as well.

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/46373_10151284248431391_1326107551_n.jpg

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/14173_10151284248551391_406273900_n.jpg

http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/182519_10151285540361391_1452896713_n.jpg

http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/302707_10151284248491391_2110335566_n.jpg

I'm a member on OC3d.net so I'm gonna ask him. If it doesn't work out I'm just gonna get a TC14PE because I actually like this case.


----------



## StayFrosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kosire*
> 
> So what happens after those 3 years..


It explodes.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> I'm confused now, the h100 uses a 240 rad. How did that guy and some other users manage to fit it in there with next to no modding at all?
> 
> Here are some images. This guy's running push/pull as well.
> 
> http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/46373_10151284248431391_1326107551_n.jpg
> 
> http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/14173_10151284248551391_406273900_n.jpg
> 
> http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/182519_10151285540361391_1452896713_n.jpg
> 
> http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/302707_10151284248491391_2110335566_n.jpg
> 
> I'm a member on OC3d.net so I'm gonna ask him. If it doesn't work out I'm just gonna get a TC14PE because I actually like this case.


based on that first picture I bet he just used the 4 holes that are part of the pattern, just inside of the 120mm fan holes. They look to be lined up perfectly to mount a 240 from them.

edit- here:


----------



## naved777

the more i see the pics the more i








for $140 its a friggn steal + expandability + swiftech quality. i think it will grab a big chunk of users using or going for H100i, TT water 2.0 extreme and that NZXT Kraken X60


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naved777*
> 
> I think it will grab a big chunk of users going for that NZXT Kraken X60


It has grabbed me.









And the more I look at the BitFenix Ghost the more I doubt it could handle a 280mm. It would be definitely be a tight fit. So I could probably just stay with the CM 690 II and stick the H220 in that and not worry about waiting for a 280mm version.


----------



## Vowels

Just watched Linus' video and oh my god! Definitely selling my NH-D14 and picking up one of these kits when it gets released. Finally an AIO kit that delivers silence and performance. It'll be perfect for my Bitfenix Prodigy.


----------



## Roadkill95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> based on that first picture I bet he just used the 4 holes that are part of the pattern, just inside of the 120mm fan holes. They look to be lined up perfectly to mount a 240 from them.
> 
> edit- here:


.

Gotcha, thanks very much for the image









So, seems like I might get one of these bad boys after all...


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> It has grabbed me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the more I look at the BitFenix Ghost the more I doubt it could handle a 280mm. It would be definitely be a tight fit. So I could probably just stay with the CM 690 II and stick the H220 in that and not worry about waiting for a 280mm version.


I have a Ghost sitting in my house right now. I'm pretty sure it would fit the 280mm rad. I'd have to know exact dimensions to check, but it should work.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> I'm confused now, the h100 uses a 240 rad. How did that guy and some other users manage to fit it in there with next to no modding at all?
> 
> Here are some images. This guy's running push/pull as well.
> 
> http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/46373_10151284248431391_1326107551_n.jpg
> 
> http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/14173_10151284248551391_406273900_n.jpg
> 
> http://sphotos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/182519_10151285540361391_1452896713_n.jpg
> 
> http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/302707_10151284248491391_2110335566_n.jpg
> 
> I'm a member on OC3d.net so I'm gonna ask him. If it doesn't work out I'm just gonna get a TC14PE because I actually like this case.


The last image shows that he modded the case to fit.


----------



## naved777

now um concerned if it will fit in my lvl 10GT


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nubbinator*
> 
> I have a Ghost sitting in my house right now. I'm pretty sure it would fit the 280mm rad. I'd have to know exact dimensions to check, but it should work.


Referring to the top of the case, I was thinking rad up top and fans below pushing exhaust, but almost all the install guides for other Swiftech parts suggest rad on bottom and fans above pushing intake. So the latter would almost definitely work. The rad might protrude a tad into the 5 1/4" bay, but who has 5 1/4" drives?


----------



## tx-jose

I need one.


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naved777*
> 
> now um concerned if it will fit in my lvl 10GT




Survey says yes?


----------



## sherlock

Probably selling my PH-TC14PE after this is released and get reviewed, it might be a tight fit in my R4 but I have seen pictures of people fitting other 240mm rad in an R4.

Thanks to Metric for the Pics.


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> Referring to the top of the case, I was thinking rad up top and fans below pushing exhaust, but almost all the install guides for other Swiftech parts suggest rad on bottom and fans above pushing intake. So the latter would almost definitely work. The rad might protrude a tad into the 5 1/4" bay, but who has 5 1/4" drives?


It will fit a ~28mm thick 240mm or 280mm rad up top without issue. It was one of the measurements I did in my review of the case.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> The last image shows that he modded the case to fit.


I remember seeing this build after thinking about it. The only mod he did was cut a hole to fit the CPU block through so he could mount the rad up top. As I previously mentioned, the holes in the grill are strangely and generously positioned so that you can run your screws through them instead of any of the original holes and it will fit without mods.


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nubbinator*
> 
> It will fit a ~28mm thick 240mm or 280mm rad up top without issue. It was one of the measurements I did in my review of the case.


Good to know.


----------



## Shadow_Foxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> If I read correctly, the pump will soon be available separately, but I don't know about the pump/block combo.


Arent the pump and block one unit?


----------



## naved777

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> 
> 
> Survey says yes?


thanx man


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadow_Foxx*
> 
> Arent the pump and block one unit?


I believe they are. And I believe I may have misinterpreted the press release...


----------



## DaFirnz

*$139..!?!*






























I guess I know what I'll be replacing my pos h50 with. Linus did a long but pretty good video with Gabe from Swiftech here. It looks like they've been trying to put it together properly for a while. Even if it's not the $139 anything less than $200 blows the competition away.


----------



## yoi

stephenm , i got a question : ( various lol )

1. is there going to be a pump/block only version ?

2. assuming you can change the tubes of the block , can you put some compression fittings on the pump/block? or its just a barb ? (i cant wait to mod it







)

3. if you can , what size is it ? G1/4 ? (you already said the tubing size)

... i really wish for a pump/block only version , it will make my builds ( and my customers ) really happy







specially those in the HTPC trend


----------



## DaFirnz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yoi*
> 
> stephenm , i got a question : ( various lol )
> 
> 1. is there going to be a pump/block only version ?
> 
> 2. assuming you can change the tubes of the block , can you put some compression fittings on the pump/block? or its just a barb ? (i cant wait to mod it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 3. if you can , what size is it ? G1/4 ? (you already said the tubing size)
> 
> ... i really wish for a pump/block only version , it will make my builds ( and my customers ) really happy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> specially those in the HTPC trend


Someone already makes a cpu block/pump only. It's not as pretty though.
If you watch this video. You'll see it appears to be a quasi-proprietary barb/clamp design


----------



## MotO

Man I think I might be sold. I've been planning an ITX build in a bitfenix prodigy and this might make things simpler.

What is the word on vibrations from the block/pump combo or does nobody know yet? I always thought block/pump combos had vibration issues.

Replacing the tubing or taking it off does not void the warranty, correct?

I read through the thread but didn't find any dimensions. Does anybody have any yet?

Can you add fans to the other side? Will the fans be sold separately? How are the fans on this?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yoi*
> 
> stephenm , i got a question : ( various lol )
> 
> 1. is there going to be a pump/block only version ?
> 
> 2. assuming you can change the tubes of the block , can you put some compression fittings on the pump/block? or its just a barb ? (i cant wait to mod it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 3. if you can , what size is it ? G1/4 ? (you already said the tubing size)
> 
> ... i really wish for a pump/block only version , it will make my builds ( and my customers ) really happy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> specially those in the HTPC trend


I don't know about the first question, but I asked Stephen earlier if the barbs are removable; they aren't. Fortunately for me though, the clamps look similar to the Swiftech Lok-Seal fittings. The tubing can be changed as long as you use 3/8" ID x 5/8" OD.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaFirnz*
> 
> Someone already makes a cpu block/pump only. It's not as pretty though.
> If you watch this video. You'll see it appears to be a quasi-proprietary barb/clamp design


Swiftech also makes a CPU block/pump combo called the Apogee Drive II (I have one), which this unit is very similar to. The AD2 uses an MCP35X pump, which is a higher RPM pump (4200 rpm vs. 3000 on this unit). 3000 RPM and below, the new pump performs IDENTICAL to the MCP35X. The new pump is also quieter and I believe it's physically smaller but I'm not sure. The H220 and the AD2 both use the same CPU block based on the Apogee and have the same mounting hardware and everything.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MotO*
> 
> Man I think I might be sold. I've been planning an ITX build in a bitfenix prodigy and this might make things simpler.
> 
> What is the word on vibrations from the block/pump combo or does nobody know yet? I always thought block/pump combos had vibration issues.
> 
> Replacing the tubing or taking it off does not void the warranty, correct?
> 
> I read through the thread but didn't find any dimensions. Does anybody have any yet?
> 
> Can you add fans to the other side? Will the fans be sold separately? How are the fans on this?


As far as pump vibrations, they aren't an issue. Like I said earlier, I have an Apogee Drive II, the big brother of this unit, and vibrations are minimal at best.

I don't know of any stipulations, but draining it and changing the tubing does not void the warranty.

This unit comes with 2 Swiftech Helix fans, which perform very close to Gentle Typhoons. It still has fan mounts on the other side, but the skirting has been moved closer to the rad, so you will have to use shorter screws. On that note, I believe I read somewhere that the water channels were moved so they are not under the fan screws, so that even if you screw down too far, the rad still will not leak. Hope this all helps


----------



## KaMeNoS

Check out this video by LinusTechTips, it shows the H220 dominating the H100i and Tt Water 2.0.


----------



## MotO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> As far as pump vibrations, they aren't an issue. Like I said earlier, I have an Apogee Drive II, the big brother of this unit, and vibrations are minimal at best.
> 
> I don't know of any stipulations, but draining it and changing the tubing does not void the warranty.
> 
> This unit comes with 2 Swiftech Helix fans, which perform very close to Gentle Typhoons. It still has fan mounts on the other side, but the skirting has been moved closer to the rad, so you will have to use shorter screws. On that note, I believe I read somewhere that the water channels were moved so they are not under the fan screws, so that even if you screw down too far, the rad still will not leak. Hope this all helps


Thanks for the info! I'm sold. Time to start ordering parts haha.


----------



## KaRLiToS

They should have all had a similar product since a long time, since the first Corsair Hydro series.


----------



## Cyclonic

Looks good and a nice price. I wish they would of taken the Kraken X60 in that test also. If you only want to cool the cpu, that 1 might be better becaus of the 280 rad.


----------



## Acefire

Wow. This thing makes corsair look like derp!


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclonic*
> 
> Looks good and a nice price. I wish they would of taken the Kraken X60 in that test also. If you only want to cool the cpu, that 1 might be better becaus of the 280 rad.


Looking at how handily the H220 beats the H100i, I doubt the X60 would perform better. The H220 uses a copper rad and a pump 4-6 times more powerful. The X60 is an aluminum rad IIRC.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaRLiToS*
> 
> They should have all had a similar product since a long time, since the first Corsair Hydro series.


Fine wine takes time







. They've been working on this for 3 years. They specifically designed a new pump JUST for this purpose.


----------



## KaRLiToS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Looking at how handily the H220 beats the H100i, I doubt the X60 would perform better. The H220 uses a copper rad and a pump 4-6 times more powerful. The X60 is an aluminum rad IIRC.


I thought aluminium was long gone from watercooling. So you are saying that the Kraken rad is made of Aluminium with a copper block? If you say right, then it's a total fail.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaRLiToS*
> 
> I thought aluminium was long gone from watercooling. So you are saying that the Kraken rad is made of Aluminium with a copper block? If you say right, then it's a total fail.


I should have been more clear; I believe they are copper tubes and aluminum fins.


----------



## KaRLiToS

Are you sure about this?


----------



## Shadow_Foxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yoi*
> 
> stephenm , i got a question : ( various lol )
> 
> 1. is there going to be a pump/block only version ?
> 
> 2. assuming you can change the tubes of the block , can you put some compression fittings on the pump/block? or its just a barb ? (i cant wait to mod it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 3. if you can , what size is it ? G1/4 ? (you already said the tubing size)
> 
> ... i really wish for a pump/block only version , it will make my builds ( and my customers ) really happy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> specially those in the HTPC trend


Someone already mentioned that the fittings are not replaceable, they are a proprietary barb with some kind of locking mechanism. Watch the linus video to see more of them.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaRLiToS*
> 
> Are you sure about this?


There ya go. I wasn't sure; I was just posting what I _thought_ to be the case and it appears I was half right and half wrong. NZXT lists the rad as aluminum.


----------



## KaRLiToS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> There ya go. I wasn't sure; I was just posting what I _thought_ to be the case and it appears I was half right and half wrong. NZXT lists the rad as aluminum.


But you just made me realize, I didn't know. Before your comment, I was really confident on the Kraken performance, But what I just learned from you is not good.







...Aluminum jeez, c'mon Nzxt.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

All the AIO from Corsair, Thermaltake, Zalman, Antec and NZXT are all the same rad build. Made by Coolit & Asetek. Simple Aluminum fin, copper pipe, with a weak 1-2W pump, that can only be enough for its own rad.
The H220 is Copper/Brass, with a 6W pump to drive 2x GPU, even another rad. Cost $140, which is a little more than Corsair, same priced as Thermaltake, and less than NZXT (May not fit most cases due to non standard spacing in cases 20mm, X60 15mm)

What you get, is a simple AIO CL done for you. All you need to do is mount the rad, screw in the block and plug in power. Done. If you want later down the road to add a GPU block, you can do that.
Swiftech nailed it, no doubt. This will make Asetek & Coolit really look hard to re-evaluate how there products need to be done and adjust there costs to suit it.


----------



## Phelan

The pump is even strong enough for 2 GPUs and 3 rads, as seen in the 5th build shown in the LinusTechTips video







.


----------



## Cyclonic

I really wonder how do i refill this when i connect another GPU to it? How do i see how much i need to fill, how to I remove the airbubbles?


----------



## dboythagr8

Wow.

I've been running a H100 for a long time...I will most likely replace it with this. I hope there's not a "catch"...seems to good to be true tbh


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Looking at how handily the H220 beats the H100i, I doubt the X60 would perform better. The H220 uses a copper rad and a pump 4-6 times more powerful. The X60 is an aluminum rad IIRC.


It will be close. The Kraken X60 spanks the H100i and the Thermaltake Water 2.0 beats it pretty handily as well. In the test posted here, the H220 was 2C better than the Water 2.0 Extreme at the same fan speed. I haven't seen any head to head tests between the X60 and Water 2.0 Extreme, so the X60 may beat the H220, even with an aluminum rad. Regardless, it will be close in performance. That said, the H220 does offer some definite advantages.


----------



## Pogi

http://bcchardware.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=12429%3Anzxt-kraken-x60-liquid-cpu-cooler&catid=90%3Acooling&Itemid=68&limitstart=3

It looks like the Thermaltake Water 2.0 and Kraken X60 are pretty much even, with Thermaltake being (just barely) ahead.


----------



## ivanlabrie

No way in hell an Asetek or Coolit unit is gonna beat this...even with faster fans (perhaps with some 200cfm ones xD)


----------



## bgtrance

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoktorCreepy*
> 
> So going on what the article implies this is a Swiftech proprietary design and therefore not based on a Asetek or Coolit design; I'm kind of curious to see how it performs.


Check out Linus' video on it. Performs very well against the competitors. It was about 5 degrees cooler if I remember correctly from a H100i.


----------



## Ricey20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nubbinator*
> 
> It will be close. The Kraken X60 spanks the H100i and the Thermaltake Water 2.0 beats it pretty handily as well. In the test posted here, the H220 was 2C better than the Water 2.0 Extreme at the same fan speed. I haven't seen any head to head tests between the X60 and Water 2.0 Extreme, so the X60 may beat the H220, even with an aluminum rad. Regardless, it will be close in performance. That said, the H220 does offer some definite advantages.


Remember, in the temperature test they were only running the fans on all 3 at 1400rpm, which is the lowest either the TT or Corsair could go.


----------



## DSgamer64

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaRLiToS*
> 
> They should have all had a similar product since a long time, since the first Corsair Hydro series.


It took 3 years to break that barrier though, probably due to trying to leak proof and create a pumping system that fits onto the CPU block and provides enough coolant flow for a full system.


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> yes we plan on releasing it with different radiators
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yes also for the PWM splitter
> 
> I'll post the temperatures in a few minutes, we are doing a demo to the press as I am typing this.
> 
> When we get back to the office and work on the product page we'll post all the dimensions


I just saw your video on linus tech tips and very impressed. Im new to watercooling and highly interested in buying this AIO Cooler.I personally have a Haf X and i seen some people install 360MM radiators on the top. So if i can buy a Swiftech h320 I'm sold. Thanks!


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricey20*
> 
> Remember, in the temperature test they were only running the fans on all 3 at 1400rpm, which is the lowest either the TT or Corsair could go.


True, but a lot of enthusiasts won't want to run their fans higher than that to keep noise levels down. And even still, the Swiftech Helix fans run up to 1800 rpms and have higher static pressure than the fans on the other units.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Would like to know what is the FPi used on the rad?


12-14 FPI
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> Hi stephenm! Is this going to be a problem? Thanks.


nope, no problem there!


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nubbinator*
> 
> It will be close. The Kraken X60 spanks the H100i and the Thermaltake Water 2.0 beats it pretty handily as well. In the test posted here, the H220 was 2C better than the Water 2.0 Extreme at the same fan speed. I haven't seen any head to head tests between the X60 and Water 2.0 Extreme, so the X60 may beat the H220, even with an aluminum rad. Regardless, it will be close in performance. That said, the H220 does offer some definite advantages.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XFNUEN6Gkc
A link to the best Kraken X60 Review IMO!

The X40 even out performs the old H100.With that being said i seen some tests on the H100i Vs H100.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNEuSRc6xt8
Linus compares the h100i vs h100 not a big difference imo 3-4 degrees.

So now the Top contenders IMO is Kraken x60 and Swiftech h220. I dont care i want the H320 in my rig


----------



## Ragsters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XFNUEN6Gkc
> A link to the best Kraken X60 Review IMO!
> 
> The X40 even out performs the old H100.With that being said i seen some tests on the H100i Vs H100.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNEuSRc6xt8
> Linus compares the h100i vs h100 not a big difference imo 3-4 degrees.
> 
> So now the Top contenders IMO is Kraken x60 and Swiftech h220. I dont care i want the H320 in my rig


If a H320 came out, I would get it in a heart beat.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yoi*
> 
> stephenm , i got a question : ( various lol )
> 
> 1. is there going to be a pump/block only version ?
> 
> 2. assuming you can change the tubes of the block , can you put some compression fittings on the pump/block? or its just a barb ? (i cant wait to mod it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> 3. if you can , what size is it ? G1/4 ? (you already said the tubing size)
> 
> ... i really wish for a pump/block only version , it will make my builds ( and my customers ) really happy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> specially those in the HTPC trend


1. We could do it, nothing has been decided yet as we are focusing on this first unit right now.

2. you can't change the barb fittings off the block, there was just not enough room for that other than doing what we did on APD2 which is not as cost effective and we would lose the swivel functionality.

2bis. if we make eventually sell the block alone we might include a set of swivel 1/2" barb in addition to the standard 3/8".

3. see 2.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclonic*
> 
> Looks good and a nice price. I wish they would of taken the Kraken X60 in that test also. If you only want to cool the cpu, that 1 might be better becaus of the 280 rad.


I haven't had time to watch the video but if I remember correctly I think Gabe explained for the first part of our demo we set all 3 systems to the same fan speed of 1,400 to make a good thermal comparison of the 3 products.

The X60 is has a larger radiator and larger fans so it makes the comparison kind of biased and it's the reason why we stuck with these 3 instead. The other reason is that Kraken is another Asetek based unit I.E. similar to the thermaltake (same pump/block - aluminum radiator) unit we had on demo.

As said before we'll most likely release a H240 which will have a dual 140mm copper radiator similar to our MCR240-QP.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaRLiToS*
> 
> I thought aluminium was long gone from watercooling. So you are saying that the Kraken rad is made of Aluminium with a copper block? If you say right, then it's a total fail.


Yes it's an aluminum radiator...; ours is copper/brass.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadow_Foxx*
> 
> Someone already mentioned that the fittings are not replaceable, they are a proprietary barb with some kind of locking mechanism. Watch the linus video to see more of them.


I don't like the proprietary term cause it makes sound like it's only compatible with our tubing while it's not








it's a standard 3/8" barb fitting with a metal 360-degree clamp - you can use any 3/8" / 10mm ID tubing here and any external clamp.
And that fitting also happens to swivel for convenience - but it still is a standard 3/8" barb fitting. The whole unit is designed to be customizable just like any high end LC component


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ragsters*
> 
> If a H320 came out, I would get it in a heart beat.


Hell YEA !!! Im sold. I really like this company taking the initiative in talking to its customers. Waiting in line for a h320!

Best Part is they are pretty local to me so another bonus!


----------



## ivanlabrie

I'm still debating and saving for my wc loop, but so far this seems really tempting.
Are there any cpu-z shots with vcore under load for the 3770k's used in those CES results?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> I'm still debating and saving for my wc loop, but so far this seems really tempting.
> Are there any cpu-z shots with vcore under load for the 3770k's used in those CES results?


I can take one on monday, if I am not mistaken it was about 1.37V - will confirm on monday - if I forget just remind me by email stephen at swiftech dot com


----------



## zinfinion

*@stephenm*: How concerned are you that the "L" shape of the reservoir on the rad will limit case compatibility? Mainly cases that have a split top such as the CM 690 II (amongst many others) that also doesn't have ~55mm of space to mount both rad and fans below the metal:



Whereas a competing AIO (or custom loop) would fit with the fans above the metal and the rad below the metal.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> 12-14 FPI
> nope, no problem there!


12-14 FPI that is real good. Perfect placement, to give a good choice of fans with higher CFM, with decent SP to cool the rad.
Much better than H110i at 17 FPI, which needs higher SP fans to be more effective, which in turn require more noise as fans need to spin much faster to get the higher SP.

Well done.


----------



## davin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> As said before we'll most likely release a H240 which will have a dual 140mm copper radiator similar to our MCR240-QP.


Make this happen please!!!


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> *@stephenm*: How concerned are you that the "L" shape of the reservoir on the rad will limit case compatibility? Mainly cases that have a split top such as the CM 690 II (amongst many others) that also doesn't have ~55mm of space to mount both rad and fans below the metal:
> 
> 
> 
> Whereas a competing AIO (or custom loop) would fit with the fans above the metal and the rad below the metal.


not a real concern - the MCR-x20-Res series has been out for a few years already, same thing with our MCR-x20-Drive series. they both have a similar reservoir on one of the radiator. in most situation you will install the kit as shipped with the fans already preinstalled on the rad. In this configuration the reservoir is always lower than the fans so there is no possible interference with the top panel of the chassis.

in some smaller case where there isn't much room under the top panel, you would want to install the radiator under the panel and the fans on top. The number of chassis in this case is pretty small - it will fit most cases as is, and even smaller mid towers like the ones we used at CES.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> I can take one on monday, if I am not mistaken it was about 1.37V - will confirm on monday - if I forget just remind me by email stephen at swiftech dot com


Thanks Stephenm! Now, 1.37v is quuite hard to cool it so well...what was ambient at the time? It's the only piece missing, and what was the stress test running at the time?
I'm really impressed by that so far.


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> in some smaller case where there isn't much room under the top panel, you would want to install the radiator under the panel and the fans on top. The number of chassis in this case is pretty small - it will fit most cases as is, and even smaller mid towers like the ones we used at CES.


Looks like I will be needing a new case then as I don't see the reservoir fitting through those small cutouts on the 690 II.

Even the Ghost looks as though it would have issues with the fans above the metal and the rad beneath. The cutouts that extend past the 120mm holes aren't wide enough. It might be able to mount the rad and fans combined below, but it's hard to tell if it would interfere with the mobo or the rear fan. As well, that top area largely becomes wasted space.



I'm guessing most cases like this will be a bit of a crapshoot then. Back to looking for a good case.


----------



## Roadkill95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> in some smaller case where there isn't much room under the top panel, you would want to install the radiator under the panel and the fans on top. The number of chassis in this case is pretty small - it will fit most cases as is, and even smaller mid towers like the ones we used at CES.


Would that make a difference in performance though? Sorry if this sounds trivial, I'm new to watercooling.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> Thanks Stephenm! Now, 1.37v is quuite hard to cool it so well...what was ambient at the time? It's the only piece missing, and what was the stress test running at the time?
> I'm really impressed by that so far.


we use CPU burn over prime/linpack because it doesn't cycle so it gives better thermal data - it also stresses the cpu 5% more than prime and maybe 2-3% less than linpack. We stress all 8 threads to 100%.
ambient temperature was 70-72 F .
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> Looks like I will be needing a new case then as I don't see the reservoir fitting through those small cutouts on the 690 II.


how much room do you have between motherboard and top panel?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> Would that make a difference in performance though? Sorry if this sounds trivial, I'm new to watercooling.


no it wouldn't make a difference


----------



## ivanlabrie

Thanks a lot Stephenm!
Nice data you guys provided...70c would be quite toasty and this thing provides sub ambient cooling!







jk (I know you meant F)


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> we use CPU burn over prime/linpack because it doesn't cycle so it gives better thermal data - it also stresses the cpu 5% more than prime and maybe 2-3% less than linpack. We stress all 8 threads to 100%.
> ambient temperature was 70-72C.
> how much room do you have between motherboard and top panel?
> no it wouldn't make a difference


I think you meant to say 70-72F or 21-22c
With those ambient, 100% stress with 1400rpm settings, very good.


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> how much room do you have between motherboard and top panel?


33mm in the CM 690 II. And based on where the 120mm mounting holes are, things would definitely start crashing into each other. Bummer. My new combined metric/imperial tape measure is cool though.


----------



## SOCOM_HERO

Anyone think this outperforms a XSPA Rasa 240 kit? I'd be pretty interested to know. (and if it comes close or is better in terms of the pump...consider me sold for my next rig) I was debating between the H100i or the Rasa, but the cost was too high for the Rasa 240. This changes things for me in terms of future expansion and no setup.


----------



## Roadkill95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> we use CPU burn over prime/linpack because it doesn't cycle so it gives better thermal data - it also stresses the cpu 5% more than prime and maybe 2-3% less than linpack. We stress all 8 threads to 100%.
> ambient temperature was 70-72C.
> how much room do you have between motherboard and top panel?
> no it wouldn't make a difference


Thanks


----------



## JAM3S121

i wish gabe better mentioned how to actually expand, would we be needing more of there specially made fittings or would we just use compression/barb?


----------



## JAM3S121

i wish gabe better mentioned how to actually expand, would we be needing more of there specially made fittings or would we just use compression/barb?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

it is the same as any watercooling setup, somewhat.
you drain it and refill it, test for air bubbles.
if you want to add a GPU, you route from the rad->cpu->gpu->rad.


----------



## JAM3S121

yeah but he had used special fittings, are those going to be available


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JAM3S121*
> 
> yeah but he had used special fittings, are those going to be available


no need for special fitting, any 3/8" fitting is compatible (barb, compression, etc)


----------



## ez12a

This looks intriguing...my h100i's LEDs broke this morning so my interest is piqued.


----------



## Faithh

Price seems to be 140$ for this set. "The H220 CPU liquid cooling kit is maintenance free for the duration of its 3 year warranty period, and will be offered at a Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price of $139.95" -> http://www.swiftech.com/pr-1-3-13-h220.aspx

If this wasn't been said.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

New video from Tech of Tomorrow
Much better than Linus video, with more details.
Still impressed by the H220 potential.


----------



## dartuil

what about release date?
longtime im waiting for this


----------



## Cyclonic

Stephenm,

Would you guys concider shipping it with with clear tubing﻿ and coloured coolant options? That would save alot of work for some people


----------



## yoi

nvm , the answer was posted


----------



## MerkageTurk

Yo bruv wud dis ting fit ma 800d homie?

Will this be compatible with the 800D?


----------



## Shadow_Foxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> 1. We could do it, nothing has been decided yet as we are focusing on this first unit right now.


arent this and the apogee drive II kind of competing with eachother? Will you discontinue the production of that?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadow_Foxx*
> 
> arent this and the apogee drive II kind of competing with eachother? Will you discontinue the production of that?


They are two different products.
Apogee Drive II is 18w pump, H220 is a 6w pump.
Someone who needs a larger support for system with more powerful pump, will need this.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shadow_Foxx*
> 
> arent this and the apogee drive II kind of competing with eachother? Will you discontinue the production of that?


Yes and no. The AD2 is a premium version of this, since it has G1/4" ports instead of swivel barbs, and the MCP35X pump on it will run higher RPMs.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> They are two different products.
> Apogee Drive II is 18w pump, H220 is a 6w pump.
> Someone who needs a larger support for system with more powerful pump, will need this.


While this is true, it should be noted that the wattage is not proportionate to the power in this case. The 2 pumps perform identical up to 3K RPM, and an MCP35X only uses 6-10w @3K RPM. The wattage more than doubles to get the extra 1200 RPMs out of the pump, because the resistance is so much higher. Much like the fact that it takes 8 times the amount of horsepower in a car to go 200 MPH as it does to propel the same vehicle to 100 MPH. The wind resistance is that much higher, and in the case of the pumps, the water flow resistance.

In other words, the MCP35X is more for people that want to flow water through 10 blocks so to speak, or want much higher flow in 6 blocks.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Yes and no. The AD2 is a premium version of this, since it has G1/4" ports instead of swivel barbs, and the MCP35X pump on it will run higher RPMs.
> While this is true, it should be noted that the wattage is not proportionate to the power in this case. The 2 pumps perform identical up to 3K RPM, and an MCP35X only uses 6-10w @3K RPM. The wattage more than doubles to get the extra 1200 RPMs out of the pump, because the resistance is so much higher. Much like the fact that it takes 8 times the amount of horsepower in a car to go 200 MPH as it does to propel the same vehicle to 100 MPH. The wind resistance is that much higher, and in the case of the pumps, the water flow resistance.
> 
> In other words, the MCP35X is more for people that want to flow water through 10 blocks so to speak, or want much higher flow in 6 blocks.


Thank you for the clear explanation.


----------



## Faithh

Is the pump's speed adjustable by plugging that pwm splitter thingie on your MB?


----------



## fatlardo

Can we get a pre order link already.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Yes.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faithh*
> 
> Is the pump's speed adjustable by plugging that pwm splitter thingie on your MB?


Yes.


----------



## MotO

.


----------



## MotO

Has anybody found out the dimensions yet?


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MotO*
> 
> Has anybody found out the dimensions yet?


I'd wager 300mm ± 10mm L x 126mm ± 2mm W x 49mm ± 2mm H (with fans attached).


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faithh*
> 
> Is the pump's speed adjustable by plugging that pwm splitter thingie on your MB?


yes


----------



## ez12a

Stephen, my 600t requires that i remove the fans from the rad in order to mount it at the top. I'm assuming they're removable?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> Stephen, my 600t requires that i remove the fans from the rad in order to mount it at the top. I'm assuming they're removable?


Yes they are.


----------



## JackieTran

Sorry for bringing this up, but as a complete novice to watercooling, i'm hoping that this can be my first w/c ( depending on the UK price ;D ).
From what i've learnt, isn't flow rate and head the most important part of a pump when talking about performance? What does the RPM do to the pump?


----------



## stephenm

You're right








we are only talking about RPM because we are comparing this pump to the MCP35X which is a known product - it makes the comparison easier, that's all.
The pump itself has about 3mH2O at max speed, and the actual system flow rate is just under 1GPM (for comparison other AIO's run around 1/4 GPM).


----------



## stephenm

Radiator dimensions below:


----------



## JackieTran

Spec wise, isn't it substantially worse than the mcp 35x?
I'm in disbelief that this pump powered 'system 5' :/


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> Spec wise, isn't it substantially worse than the mcp 35x?


According to Swiftech& other poster in this thread this pump is just as good as mcp35X up to 3K RPM.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Yes and no. The AD2 is a premium version of this, since it has G1/4" ports instead of swivel barbs, and the MCP35X pump on it will run higher RPMs.
> While this is true, it should be noted that the wattage is not proportionate to the power in this case*. The 2 pumps perform identical up to 3K RPM*, and an MCP35X only uses 6-10w @3K RPM. The wattage more than doubles to get the extra 1200 RPMs out of the pump, because the resistance is so much higher. Much like the fact that it takes 8 times the amount of horsepower in a car to go 200 MPH as it does to propel the same vehicle to 100 MPH. The wind resistance is that much higher, and in the case of the pumps, the water flow resistance.
> 
> In other words, the MCP35X is more for people that want to flow water through 10 blocks so to speak, or want much higher flow in 6 blocks.


----------



## JackieTran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> According to Swiftech& other poster in this thread this pump is just as good as mcp35X up to 3K RPM.


*The pump itself has about 3mH2O at max speed, and the actual system flow rate is just under 1GPM (for comparison other AIO's run around 1/4 GPM).*

MCP35X-
Max. nominal head (@12 V) 14.7 ft (4.4m)
Max nominal discharge (@12 V) ~ 4.75 GPM (17.5 LPM)

I'm in no position to argue as i'm a complete novice [







] but doesn't that show that the 35x is better?

If they perform identical up to 3K RPM, does it mean that the head and flow don't apply?

...Man im confused


----------



## msgclb

Spoiler: Radiator dimensions



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Radiator dimensions below:






Here's an image of the XION Predator Gaming Series AXP 970-001BK Mid Tower Case with its top off.

This case just might be able to fit a Swiftech H220 240mm AIO Water Cooler.



Also if anyone has installed the Swiftech MCR220-QP RES2 inside a midtower case it would be great to hear about your solution.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> *The pump itself has about 3mH2O at max speed, and the actual system flow rate is just under 1GPM (for comparison other AIO's run around 1/4 GPM).*
> 
> MCP35X-
> Max. nominal head (@12 V) 14.7 ft (4.4m)
> Max nominal discharge (@12 V) ~ 4.75 GPM (17.5 LPM)
> 
> I'm in no position to argue as i'm a complete novice but doesn't that show that the 35x is better?
> 
> If they perform identical up to 3K RPM, does it mean that the head and flow don't apply?
> 
> ...Man im confused


As the quote in my post stated, at 3K RPM the MCP35X only draws between 6-10W of power, the max numbers you quoted are when the pump is operating at 18W.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> *The pump itself has about 3mH2O at max speed, and the actual system flow rate is just under 1GPM (for comparison other AIO's run around 1/4 GPM).*
> 
> MCP35X-
> Max. nominal head (@12 V) 14.7 ft (4.4m)
> Max nominal discharge (@12 V) ~ 4.75 GPM (17.5 LPM)
> 
> I'm in no position to argue as i'm a complete novice [
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ] but doesn't that show that the 35x is better?
> 
> If they perform identical up to 3K RPM, does it mean that the head and flow don't apply?
> 
> ...Man im confused


The MCP35X is a beast. If it were a car, it would be a race car and go 200 mph. But most everyone that has one doesn't drive it past 60, and it only takes 17 hp to push a semi down the highway at 55, but it takes over 500 HP to put an aerodynamic 3K lb Corvette to 200 mph. Wind resistance is the difference, much like flow resistance in our case. Resistance and power consumption are not directly proportional to pump speed and flow. It takes a LOT more power to run higher flow, and in 90% of builds it's just not needed. Most people don't run the MCP35X past 3K RPMs because it's too loud to be comfortable. I have one in my Apogee Drive II, yet it only ran 2000-2500 RPM tops, on PWM, because I never needed more than that. Up to 3K RPMs, which is more than I ever needed in a build with the AD2, an ek GPU block, Maelstrom dual bay res, and 2 MCR420-QP 480mm rads, the new H220 performs IDENTICAL to the Apogee Drive II.

In another analogy, consider the H220 as a deisel truck, the MPC35X as a race semi, and all coolit/asetek AIOs as a yugo. Overclocking raises the speed limit, but adding other blocks puts cars on a trailer behind them.


----------



## JackieTran

ahh, ic. I was under the impression that the head stayed consistent no matter what.

So RPM is basically the mother of controls? If you increase the RPM, naturally both the flow rate and head will change in relation?
If someone could quickly explain RPM, it would be really helpful


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> ahh, ic. I was under the impression that the head stayed consistent no matter what.
> 
> So RPM is basically the mother of controls? If you increase the RPM, naturally both the flow rate and head will change in relation?
> If someone could quickly explain RPM, it would be really helpful


So to speak, yes. Change the RPM and your flow and head will change accordingly.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> Spec wise, isn't it substantially worse than the mcp 35x?
> I'm in disbelief that this pump powered 'system 5' :/


hard to believe huh?







that's why we had it on demo there at CES, so that people could actually see it with their own eyes.

The enthusiast's community is always at the source of the most awesome systems but it doesn't mean there is not a little bit of overkill that is done here and there. AIO up to today couldn't drive multiple blocks or multiple rads because the flow rate is just too low. On the other hand, having 2+ high end pumps is always much more than needed to drive a few blocks and a few rads. There is a whole world of viable solutions in between these 2 extreme cases and that's what we are showing: one decent and quiet pump can drive a high end loop without a problem - our pump never went pass 2000 RPM while CPU and GPU's were loaded (at the same time!).

As an enthusiast myself, the only reason I would recommend two pumps would be for redundancy for a server or a very high end system in which cost isn't a problem. I personally only run a single pump - but it has to be PWM controllable


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> ahh, ic. I was under the impression that the head stayed consistent no matter what.
> 
> So RPM is basically the mother of controls? If you increase the RPM, naturally both the flow rate and head will change in relation?
> If someone could quickly explain RPM, it would be really helpful


precisely

look at that chart as an illustration:


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *msgclb*
> 
> 
> Here's an image of the XION Predator Gaming Series AXP 970-001BK Mid Tower Case with its top off.
> This case just might be able to fit a Swiftech H220 240mm AIO Water Cooler.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also if anyone has installed the Swiftech MCR220-QP RES2 inside a midtower case it would be great to hear about your solution.


it looks like the opening to the front of the fans will be large enough to host the radiator.
I'll go ahead and order this case to check


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Radiator dimensions below:


Is it safe to assume that the unit can be mounted with the reservoir pointed down? (Upside down in relation to the drawing)
Thanks.


----------



## Dizz22r

I want h320 Now lol. So sold on this i cant wait for it!


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> Is it safe to assume that the unit can be mounted with the reservoir pointed down? (Upside down in relation to the drawing)
> Thanks.


Yes it will work - though in this configuration you will want to top off the coolant more frequently to avoid annoying air bubbles to travel through the loop. Or if you are more of a DYI guy you could also add a bay reservoir to act as an air trap.


----------



## Johnny Utah

hey stephen, sorry if this has been asked but what is the loop pre-filled with? distilled? Hydrx?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Yes it will work - though in this configuration you will want to top off the coolant more frequently to avoid annoying air bubbles to travel through the loop. Or if you are more of a DYI guy you could also add a bay reservoir to act as an air trap.


That is a problem. As most case push/pull will be an issue, where you need to mount the rad itself to the case. The reservoir will be in the way for mounting.
As in my case, the fill port needs to be facing down to get it mounted properly.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> That is a problem. As most case push/pull will be an issue, where you need to mount the rad itself to the case. The reservoir will be in the way for mounting.
> As in my case, the fill port needs to be facing down to get it mounted properly.


swivel fittings let you turn the tubing 180 degrees.
you can install the radiator at the bottom of a case and still have the tubing going "up" toward your board/CPU.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Johnny Utah*
> 
> hey stephen, sorry if this has been asked but what is the loop pre-filled with? distilled? Hydrx?


it's our HydrX-2 - a new product. it's +90% distilled water base solution with anti-corrosion and anti-algae.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> swivel fittings let you turn the tubing 180 degrees.
> you can install the radiator at the bottom of a case and still have the tubing going "up" toward your board/CPU.


only spot to mount is on top, no fan mounting on bottom.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> only spot to mount is on top, no fan mounting on bottom.


then I am not sure why you say push pull would be a problem
If you send me a pic of your case I can take a look: stephen at swiftech dot com


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Yes it will work - though in this configuration you will want to top off the coolant more frequently to avoid annoying air bubbles to travel through the loop. Or if you are more of a DYI guy you could also add a bay reservoir to act as an air trap.


Ouch. I think you just lost me there. In order to top off the coolant, I would have to remove the radiator from the case since the fill cap would be pointed down when it was installed. How frequently are we talking about here, because that seems like to much trouble for someone looking to use this as a AIO closed loop. It's beginning to look as though this is not as user friendly as I was first lead to believe. With a case such as the 600t, the radiator must be mounted to the inside of the top of the case, with the fans mounted on the outside off the case pushing air down and in through the rad from the outside. That's why the rad must be mounted upside down, because the reservoir would get in the way.








To tell you the truth, I,m still not convinced this will even fit in a 600t! I may be SOL.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> then I am not sure why you say push pull would be a problem
> If you send me a pic of your case I can take a look: stephen at swiftech dot com


"where you need to mount the rad itself to the case. The reservoir will be in the way for mounting.
As in my case, the fill port needs to be facing down to get it mounted properly."


----------



## Tom Thumb

I guess this unit as it comes assembled is made to be installed so that it is pushing air in from the outside of the case and in through the radiator to the inside of the case?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> I guess this unit as it comes assembled is made to be installed so that it is pushing air in from the outside of the case and in through the radiator to the inside of the case?


I would think that it's filled full from the factory, so if you wanted to use it as an AIO, it wouldn't be a problem.


----------



## Johnny Utah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> I guess this unit as it comes assembled is made to be installed so that it is pushing air in from the outside of the case and in through the radiator to the inside of the case?


To me, I see the typical installation being with the fans and reservoir facing down to pull air from inside the case and exhaust it outside. You don't want the radiator exhausting inside your case because that air is very warm under load.

Most newer cases should support this without a problem. The reservoir area of the radiator doesn't extend too far past the fans.

Also if worse comes to worse, you can always pick up an external mounting bracket like this.

http://www.swiftech.com/mcb-120radbox.aspx#tab1


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Johnny Utah*
> 
> To me, I see the typical installation being with the fans and reservoir facing down to pull air from inside the case and exhaust it outside.


If you look through some of the install guides on Swiftech's site almost all of the top mounts have the fans on top, blowing down thru the rad and into the case. Front mounts with fans blowing thru the rad into the case as well. I've seen other sites that claim it is better to blow cool outside air through the rad, rather than hot case air.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> If you look through some of the install guides on Swiftech's site almost all of the top mounts have the fans on top, blowing down thru the rad and into the case. Front mounts with fans blowing thru the rad into the case as well. I've seen other sites that claim it is better to blow cool outside air through the rad, rather than hot case air.


Here is how Tom's Hardware.com Installed Swiftech's H2O-320 Edge Kit when they did a water cooling review, It is mounted with Rads below fans but in pull, I guess they didn't follow those install guides?:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/switch-810-cosmos-ii-strike-x-hurrican-2000,3151-2.html


----------



## Johnny Utah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> If you look through some of the install guides on Swiftech's site almost all of the top mounts have the fans on top, blowing down thru the rad and into the case. Front mounts with fans blowing thru the rad into the case as well. I've seen other sites that claim it is better to blow cool outside air through the rad, rather than hot case air.


Yeah pulling the coolest air through the rad will yield the best efficiency for the loop, so if people can do that, I say go for it. There is the drawback of increasing case temperature and you'll need to add dust filters. If you're case has good cooling and case temps are very close to ambient, I'd set it up to pull case air and exhaust it out, personally, but it just depends on your build.


----------



## dragonsamus

I really want one. Will this fit in an NZXT Phantom 410, Stephen?


----------



## stephenm

Fans are pre-installed on the radiator but if you really wanted to have the fans pull the air out you can always remount the fans to the radiator, it's only 8 screws. We recommend this configuration for 2 reasons: 1. we're pulling air that's cooler outside the case than it is inside (5-8C typically which is a net gain on the CPU temp's). 2. the radiator thermal performance is about 10-15% better with fan pushing through and than pulling off. There are situations where these differences can be smaller (typically if stronger fans are used, and in the case of a highly ventilated chassis).

Units are prefilled and can work with the radiator mounted any direction. Though considering the high flow rate of our unit, after a couple of years of use with the "L shape" reservoir facing down I could image it could lead to some gurgling noise. Which can be prevented by running the pump at a lower speed, or, topping off the coolant, or adding a reservoir in line with the system. It kind of is a moot point to discuss though since none of the other dual rad AIO have been in use for long enough to see how they react when the coolant level has gone down a bit.


----------



## msgclb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> it looks like the opening to the front of the fans will be large enough to host the radiator.
> I'll go ahead and order this case to check


Thanks *stephenm*. I look forward to your results.


----------



## tx-jose

Stephen,

I have a question for you. On your sales for these units, will we have to go through our trusted water cooling store (I.e. frozencpu, aqua tuning, special tech) to purchase these units will they be avalibe where ever the normal AIO coolers are?

also please have a crap ton on release...I don't want to be with out one









and when and where do I pre order??


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tx-jose*
> 
> Stephen,
> 
> I have a question for you. On your sales for these units, will we have to go through our trusted water cooling store (I.e. frozencpu, aqua tuning, special tech) to purchase these units will they be avalibe where ever the normal AIO coolers are?
> 
> also please have a crap ton on release...I don't want to be with out one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and when and where do I pre order??


I don't know about preorders and who which distributors will sell them, but I know they'll be available at Swiftech.com







.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tx-jose*
> 
> Stephen,
> 
> I have a question for you. On your sales for these units, will we have to go through our trusted water cooling store (I.e. frozencpu, aqua tuning, special tech) to purchase these units will they be avalibe where ever the normal AIO coolers are?
> 
> also please have a crap ton on release...I don't want to be with out one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and when and where do I pre order??


It will be carried by all the distributors/retailers listed on our website and probably a few more major ones.

Pre-orders should be available at the end of this month.


----------



## Pogi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> It will be carried by all the distributors/retailers listed on our website and probably a few more major ones.
> 
> Pre-orders should be available at the end of this month.


Will it be listed on Amazon?


----------



## ez12a

I dont think they have a storefront on Amazon, unless a merchant puts it on there. I really do hope so because my h100i that I returned was purchased with a GC!


----------



## sikkly

Hmm, hoping I can make this fit in my Corsair 300r, seems like it'd be a tight fit even with the fans outside the case. May have to do a little modding to get it in properly.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Hmm, hoping I can make this fit in my Corsair 300r, seems like it'd be a tight fit even with the fans outside the case. May have to do a little modding to get it in properly.


bad thing is it will not fit your case. If you had the H100, with fan it will slightly touch the ram module, but that varies on mobo model.
The 300R was really not meant for watercooling.

With the H220, the mounting is the fans pulling air in, as the reservoir needs the fans on top.
You can flip the rad facing down, but that might cause issues later down and mount the fans on the outside of case.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> bad thing is it will not fit your case. If you had the H100, with fan it will slightly touch the ram module, but that varies on mobo model.
> The 300R was really not meant for watercooling.
> 
> With the H220, the mounting is the fans pulling air in, as the reservoir needs the fans on top.
> You can flip the rad facing down, but that might cause issues later down and mount the fans on the outside of case.


It won't cause any problems if he's using it as an AIO or fills it completely if he opens the loop. Just turn the rad upside down and mount the fans on top. You can still mount them in push as well.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> It won't cause any problems if he's using it as an AIO or fills it completely if he opens the loop. Just turn the rad upside down and mount the fans on top. You can still mount them in push as well.


The 300R has barely any room to mount the H100. I'm talking about touching top of the ram.
Push will be an issue in that case. H220 rad is thicker than h100.
Even the 8pin EPS will be having an issue.
300R bad case for watercooling, modding will need to be done and fans must be mounted outside case.
only other options is to try to mount it on the front of the case, if it will fit.

H100 27mm rad with 25mm fans


----------



## Roadkill95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> The 300R has barely any room to mount the H100. I'm talking about touching top of the ram.
> Push will be an issue in that case. H220 rad is thicker than h100.
> Even the 8pin EPS will be having an issue.
> 300R bad case for watercooling, modding will need to be done and fans must be mounted outside case.
> only other options is to try to mount it on the front of the case, if it will fit.
> 
> H100 27mm rad with 25mm fans


He could always mount the fans on top like with the Z11?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> The 300R has barely any room to mount the H100. I'm talking about touching top of the ram.
> Push will be an issue in that case. H220 rad is thicker than h100.
> Even the 8pin EPS will be having an issue.
> 300R bad case for watercooling, modding will need to be done and fans must be mounted outside case.
> only other options is to try to mount it on the front of the case, if it will fit.
> 
> H100 27mm rad with 25mm fans


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> He could always mount the fans on top like with the Z11?


This. Just mount the fans on top to push air in. That's the recemmended way by Swiftech anyway. You'd just be flipping the rad to fit inside the case. The fans CAN come off. Although you'd have to use shorter screws to mount them on the fans on the other side, because the skirting was brought in 5-6 mm closer to the core to aid in overall size and case compatibility.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

If you read my post, i already mentioned to do that.
No need to comment again over same thing.


----------



## sikkly

Phelan, not all motherboards are made equal. It's hard to tell exactly, but my MSI mobo definitely has some extra space between the ram and the top of the board, where the ram on that board is basically touching the top. I actually read that article while trying to find out if I could get it to fit. I'm actually more worried about my VRM's heatsink than my Ram. I'm not all too worried about mounting the fans outside the case, its getting the rad to fit that worries me. Like I said, worse comes to worse I'll just mod it a little, I like the case a lot and would rather mod it than buy a different case.


----------



## tx-jose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> It will be carried by all the distributors/retailers listed on our website and probably a few more major ones.
> 
> Pre-orders should be available at the end of this month.


Awesome !!! Put me down for 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pogi*
> 
> Will it be listed on Amazon?


Who cares about amazon ?? I will be buying this straight from swiftech !! More money for them so they can pump out more products like this fine piece of engineering!!!


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Phelan, not all motherboards are made equal. It's hard to tell exactly, but my MSI mobo definitely has some extra space between the ram and the top of the board, where the ram on that board is basically touching the top. I actually read that article while trying to find out if I could get it to fit. I'm actually more worried about my VRM's heatsink than my Ram. I'm not all too worried about mounting the fans outside the case, its getting the rad to fit that worries me. Like I said, worse comes to worse I'll just mod it a little, I like the case a lot and would rather mod it than buy a different case.


Stephenm mention this, as with your case the fill port will need to be facing down. Unless you mount the whole rad outside, then new tubing is needed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Yes it will work - though in this configuration you will want to top off the coolant more frequently to avoid annoying air bubbles to travel through the loop. Or if you are more of a DYI guy you could also add a bay reservoir to act as an air trap.


The rad thickness is 29mm, here is a diagram so you can measure everything before you start buying.


----------



## Gallien

What is your take/time frame/expectations for a H320 or even H420 ? I am completely and utterly sold by the way, Thank you Gabe and thank you Stephen


----------



## Pogi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tx-jose*
> 
> Awesome !!! Put me down for 1
> Who cares about amazon ?? I will be buying this straight from swiftech !! More money for them so they can pump out more products like this fine piece of engineering!!!


I do, obviously?







I have Amazon Prime and a gift card balance that I want to spend, but I'll still purchase from Swiftech if Amazon isn't available.


----------



## naved777

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Stephenm mention this, as with your case the fill port will need to be facing down. Unless you mount the whole rad outside, then new tubing is needed.
> The rad thickness is 29mm, here is a diagram so you can measure everything before you start buying.


dude do you how many inches is the Corsair H100 including fan?
like the Swiftech H220 is 2.1''


----------



## WarMacheen

Stephenm, will painting parts of this void the warranty, outside of the radiator, etc.


----------



## kevindd992002

In this video:



What are those metal case flaps above the case? The fans of the radiator in the top of the case is positioned as exhaust right? So that will disperse the air through the sides of that flap? Isn't that a restriction to airflow?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WarMacheen*
> 
> Stephenm, will painting parts of this void the warranty, outside of the radiator, etc.


we've always been mod friendly - and basically as it's not an invasive mod that requires taking out the motor, modding PCB, etc you should be fine.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> In this video:
> 
> 
> 
> What are those metal case flaps above the case? The fans of the radiator in the top of the case is positioned as exhaust right? So that will disperse the air through the sides of that flap? Isn't that a restriction to airflow?


the flap is part of the Nanoxia DS1 case. Fans are on top and pulling air from the outside through the radiator. It's a real minor air flow restriction - and in pull configuration at least it doesn't add any weird noise - even at full speed. I rarely top fans as an exhaust when doing WC and I haven't tried this case with top fans as exhaust.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> the flap is part of the Nanoxia DS1 case. Fans are on top and pulling air from the outside through the radiator. It's a real minor air flow restriction - and in pull configuration at least it doesn't add any weird noise - even at full speed. I rarely top fans as an exhaust when doing WC and I haven't tried this case with top fans as exhaust.


Oh so they're setup as intakes in the top of the case? Why can't I notice that in the video?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naved777*
> 
> dude do you how many inches is the Corsair H100 including fan?
> like the Swiftech H220 is 2.1''


If you do not know what we are talking about, do not respond till you read a few post behind.


----------



## xNovax

Probably going to get one. Any word on a release date?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xNovax*
> 
> Probably going to get one. Any word on a release date?


They mentioned end of month beginning of feb for preorder


----------



## trendy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> They mentioned end of month beginning of feb for preorder


I'll be buying one then, my birthday is in February and I'm in need of a new CPU loop.

I'm super excited about this unit, I really am. The price is outstanding, and the fact that you can expand it is just AWESOME! When I first "came back" to the hardware scene after 3 years of not even owning a laptop computer, I started reading about the Corsair Hydro series and realized that they were missing one giant feature in not letting you expand the loop without some major hacking. Swiftech has always been one of my favorite companies, and I'm excited to see what I can do with this unit!

Think about this, with this AIO you can get a CPU + GPU loop for less than $300. That's OUTSTANDING!


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Oh so they're setup as intakes in the top of the case? Why can't I notice that in the video?


all 3 AIO were setup the same way (all pulling fresh air from the outside and pushing through the radiator)
out of all the pictures that were taken during CES someone must have one that shows it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xNovax*
> 
> Probably going to get one. Any word on a release date?


mid-end february is when it will be available from channels.


----------



## ez12a

awesome! i hope this somehow reaches amazon or a amazon prime merchant *crosses fingers*

i hope to be the first to produce a video install/review


----------



## stephenm

A bunch of kits are already in hands of reviewers in case this wasn't mentioned before


----------



## stephenm

I received the Xion AXP970 this morning, looks like it'll fit just fine. I'll post a pic or two when I have time to get an unit installed in there.


----------



## xNovax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> They mentioned end of month beginning of feb for preorder


Just in time for the LAN in Toronto


----------



## msgclb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> I received the Xion AXP970 this morning, looks like it'll fit just fine. I'll post a pic or two when I have time to get an unit installed in there.


Wow, that was fast!

When I first saw the video I searched for the *Nanoxia DS1* case and found the *company* website and a review by *AnandTech*.

From the *AnandTech* review:

Quote:


> Nanoxia isn't selling on American shores yet, but there's been a lot of buzz going around about this case, and Nanoxia has been steadily making inroads towards getting it into our hands.


Realizing that I wasn't going to get my hands on one of these cases I looked for another solution.


----------



## stephenm

Quick mockup and quick picture with a board to show that the radiator clears the board without any problem.
Note that without doing any modification I could only install 2 screws to mount the radiator. as it needed to be offset to prevent the reservoir from interfering with the top panel. adding 2 screws should be easy enough. Also note that the case is different (revision?) from the picture of you guys posted earlier this week.


----------



## sherlock

If this thing could fit in my Fractal Design Define R4 I will buy it ASAP, if not I'll probably wait till H320 comes out and get a Switch 810 to house it.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> If this thing could fit in my Fractal Design Define R4 I will buy it ASAP, if not I'll probably wait till H320 comes out and upgrade my case to a Switch 810.


It will fit Fractal Design Define R4, but you will need to custom fit in the case.
you need to measure the space from your top mobo and eps connection.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> It will fit Fractal Design Define R4, but you will need to custom fit in the case.
> you need to measure the space from your top mobo and eps connection.


Yeah, probably will print that picture out and do some measuring when I change TIM this weekend.


the 8pin might be OK but I might have to buy an extender to get the wire out of the way, the 120mm mount holes are about .5" inside from the 140mm mount holes, just don't know the exact VRM heatsink height(about as high as the I/O Panel) or how far the 140mm holes are from the mobo.





Plus I seen photos of H100 fitting so I think I got a shot.


----------



## InsideJob

This unit is going to be the *absolute* best on the market. Performance/price ratio is outstanding and the expandability only puts the icing on the cake


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

There is a diagram of the H220 that shows you dimensions, a few post up.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> There is a diagram of the H220 that shows you dimensions, a few post up.


If you mean this one I already knew where it is:


----------



## stephenm

if you need other dimensions let me know


----------



## ez12a

CURRENTLY VIEWING
CorsairGeorge


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> if you need other dimensions let me know


What's the length of the res portion?


----------



## Vlada011

I cross on this from H100, I thought first on H100i than I see problems again and some firmware change with Corsair Link, I don't have CORSAIR Link and I would rather buy H220 than CORSAIR Link.
Plus I can sell H100 easy in my country without CORSAIR on market and pay less than half price. I think that is smart option special for EVGA Fan and I think they make waterblocks for their cards and maybe instead of normal 680 I hear price will drop for same money to buy HC version. Than I have my first little water cooling loops.
I have good sample of 3770K(4.8Ghz only because temps) and Haswell is not interested for me. After that upgrade one year waiting and than on Extreme.
Next mine Intel I choose more than 4 cores.

What you think I think it's smart option selling H100 and order H220 of course after first review???
I think this can became revolution and Swiftech best seller product.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> if you need other dimensions let me know


Thanks, but it seems like it is going to be a really tight fit. The distance from the top front 120mm fan mounting hole to the rear of the case measures 11.5". The H220's reservoir would barely clear the rear 140mm fan and the fitting is just too tight for my liking. I will probably wait for the H320 model and get a Switch 810 to house it or wait to see if Fractal comes out with a more water cooling friendly R5.


----------



## navit

This can't come out soon enough for me.


----------



## leon63

Looking forward to this








Hoping the pump is as silent as they say it is; I won't put anything in my system that's more audible than the air turbulence from noctua fans @ 500rpm at idle temp.


----------



## exnihilo

How exactly does one go about expanding this product? In regards to filling/adding additional fluid for the new blocks?

cg


----------



## WiSK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exnihilo*
> 
> How exactly does one go about expanding this product? In regards to filling/adding additional fluid for the new blocks?
> 
> cg


The H220 is just like a custom watercooling loop, except it's prebuilt. You'd have to drain it, add the new block, add an extra tube, refill and prime it.


----------



## shak2300

I'm curious to know; with the size and flow of the pump how many rads can you put. For example in the custom loop you guys made at CES, you guys use 3 240mm rad (correct me if I’m wrong), but my question is can the pump handle some like 1 480 + 240 or even more


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shak2300*
> 
> I'm curious to know; with the size and flow of the pump how many rads can you put. For example in the custom loop you guys made at CES, you guys use 3 240mm rad (correct me if I'm wrong), but my question is can the pump handle some like 1 480 + 240 or even more


This unit performs identical with the Apogee Drive II up to 3K RPM, and I had an AD2 running my loop at 2500 RPM or less with 2 480 rads, GPU and CPU block, and dual bay res. So yes, it'll run it fine







.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shak2300*
> 
> I'm curious to know; with the size and flow of the pump how many rads can you put. For example in the custom loop you guys made at CES, you guys use 3 240mm rad (correct me if I'm wrong), but my question is can the pump handle some like 1 480 + 240 or even more


just a little shy of 1GPM as shipped - adding radiators doesn't have such a big impact on flow rate compared to water blocks - we recommend in case of SLI/XFire to have GPU blocks mounted in parallel (but that's a recommendation we only give for this system, it's also true for any other custom loop)


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> What's the length of the res portion?


19 mm


----------



## Johnsen

Jump to 14:55 to see this baby cooling the cpu, 2 x GFX (7970's) 2 x 240 rad aaand a 280 rad.

That is amazing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZgctchIQ7M&playnext=1&list=PLgdmqXSSjK_NUS5-rYO3sQ5T2_Z1eePvd&feature=results_video


----------



## Vlada011

Swiftech H220 + 4x NEW* Scythe Gentle Typhoon AP-45 2150 excellent combination.
I love little noise of AIR from Gentle Typhoons on radiator. PC sound cool than, it's not loud motor fans noise only AIR hum.

Yes that is amazing but can someone tell me is it possibile to one 240mm radiator cool one 3770k and one GPU???
I mean I have place for one more 120mm radiator on rear of case but than it's little complicated.
I more like picture whit Maximus 5 Formula and 2x EVGA GTX680 HydroCooper.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vlada011*
> 
> Swiftech H220 + 4x NEW* Scythe Gentle Typhoon AP-45 2150 excellent combination.
> I love little noise of AIR from Gentle Typhoons on radiator. PC sound cool than, it's not loud motor fans noise only AIR hum.
> 
> Yes that is amazing but can someone tell me is it possibile to one 240mm radiator cool one 3770k and one GPU???
> I mean I have place for one more 120mm radiator on rear of case but than it's little complicated.
> I more like picture whit Maximus 5 Formula and 2x EVGA GTX680 HydroCooper.


The fans that come with is the Helix, which is very similar as the GT15 1800RPM version.
If you saw the video you see it cool a 3770k + 2 GTX 680


----------



## tw33k

I've been looking at this for a couple days now and can't work out how you would remove the pre-installed fans. Are they screwed in? Any one got any ideas?
Also, are there mounting holes on the other side of the rad for push/pull?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> I've been looking at this for a couple days now and can't work out how you would remove the pre-installed fans. Are they screwed in? Any one got any ideas?
> Also, are there mounting holes on the other side of the rad for push/pull?


Yes they are screwed in.
You can Push/pull


----------



## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Yes they are screwed in.
> You can Push/pull


Thanks. So to get the screws out I would need a screwdriver that was small enough to fit through the fan holes? I hope I don't sound too ignorant but I can't see how you would get the screws out.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> Thanks. So to get the screws out I would need a screwdriver that was small enough to fit through the fan holes? I hope I don't sound too ignorant but I can't see how you would get the screws out.


screwdriver through the hole and unscrew.
The fans used on them is very good, and designed this way so you mount with the fans on top of your case.


----------



## brian1115

I was skeptical about doing water cooling on my planned build but with the release of this product I will most defiantly be doing it and expanding into two GPUs


----------



## msgclb

From the video I believe the case is a CM Storm Trooper similar to this *one*.

Whether it is or isn't I've got an image from the Trooper manual.



If you did use the CM Storm Trooper then did you install the H220 as in the image or with the drain up?

If the case is not the CM Storm Trooper then could you enlighten us to which case you used.


----------



## Cyclonic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *msgclb*
> 
> From the video I believe the case is a CM Storm Trooper similar to this *one*.
> 
> Whether it is or isn't I've got an image from the Trooper manual.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you did use the CM Storm Trooper then did you install the H220 as in the image or with the drain up?
> 
> If the case is not the CM Storm Trooper then could you enlighten us to which case you used.


It was the Trooper.


----------



## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> screwdriver through the hole and unscrew.
> The fans used on them is very good, and designed this way so you mount with the fans on top of your case.


the fans are set to pull air from outside the case. I don't want this. I want to have the fans push through the rad and out the top. The air temp inside my case is only 1-2c max warmer than room temp so pushing this air through the rad won't impact my overall temp


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> the fans are set to pull air from outside the case. I don't want this. I want to have the fans push through the rad and out the top. The air temp inside my case is only 1-2c max warmer than room temp so pushing this air through the rad won't impact my overall temp


The fans is needed to be on top there to mount on top of case. Just turn fan around to set as pull and add more fans on bottom for the push.
Cause the reservoir is in the way and wont be able to mount without the fan.


----------



## mtbiker033

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> Logitech is next lol


and Razer lol


----------



## Dizz22r

Hey Guy's!

I found this post on another tech forums. This guy was had a rant about the h220 and Gabe Grouchon stepped in and put him in his place. Amazing!! I got to hand to them i like companies who stand behind their products and take the time to talk to their customers. They are computer enthusiast just like us. I have new found respect for Switech and Gabe. Kudo's to you guys and i am happy to be buying your future products from now on!

http://linustechtips.com/main/forum/community-portal/consumer-electronics-show-2013/42940-an-angry-rant-about-swiftech-h220?p=48098&pp=47081

Also Noticed gabe said that your in house pump could run at 4.5k Rpms like the Mcp35x and it actually out performed it!! That's impressive. Now my question is can i buy a 4.5k rpm pump instead of the 3k rpm pump. Just curious. I might just go all out go big!


----------



## ez12a

most of Ghost's rant was making a big deal about nothing (concept of DIY, blah blah) and based on conjecture/product demos on youtube. How he was able to draw so many conclusions on something he has never touched or seen in person is hilarious. Good on the CEO for responding rationally.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> Nice pics .


Those are not the H220/H320. They are a different models. So disreguard that image.


----------



## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> The fans is needed to be on top there to mount on top of case. Just turn fan around to set as pull and add more fans on bottom for the push.
> Cause the reservoir is in the way and wont be able to mount without the fan.


If I do buy this I'll be removing those fans and adding 2x Ultra Kaze 3000s


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

There is also a 360 version coming too. Not sure which case you will have in in your 2 builds.
The fans that come with it is very good. They are like the GT15.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> If I do buy this I'll be removing those fans and adding 2x Ultra Kaze 3000s


No good...the rads are tuned for slower fans.


----------



## tw33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> No good...the rads are tuned for slower fans.


We'll see


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> We'll see


Demand an mcr220/320 XP version like I wanted








(I got two 220cfm fans hehe)


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tw33k*
> 
> I've been looking at this for a couple days now and can't work out how you would remove the pre-installed fans. Are they screwed in? Any one got any ideas?
> Also, are there mounting holes on the other side of the rad for push/pull?


you can take them out easily, just use a #1 or #2 philips screw driver


----------



## WarMacheen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> Hey Guy's!
> 
> I found this post on another tech forums. This guy was had a rant about the h220 and Gabe Grouchon stepped in and put him in his place. Amazing!! I got to hand to them i like companies who stand behind their products and take the time to talk to their customers. They are computer enthusiast just like us. I have new found respect for Switech and Gabe. Kudo's to you guys and i am happy to be buying your future products from now on!
> 
> http://linustechtips.com/main/forum/community-portal/consumer-electronics-show-2013/42940-an-angry-rant-about-swiftech-h220?p=48098&pp=47081
> 
> Also Noticed gabe said that your in house pump could run at 4.5k Rpms like the Mcp35x and it actually out performed it!! That's impressive. Now my question is can i buy a 4.5k rpm pump instead of the 3k rpm pump. Just curious. I might just go all out go big!


Holy crap, that dude, (ghost) got eaten alive lol

Heck I may buy two or three because of that lol


----------



## She loved E

ugh the rant on that other forum was painful. glad that bs isn't allowed here.

seems like an awesome product... can't wait for it to come out.


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WarMacheen*
> 
> Holy crap, that dude, (ghost) got eaten alive lol
> 
> Heck I may buy two or three because of that lol


Like i said mad respect to Gabe and everyone at swiftech i like the way how they are taking care of things and keeping us in the loop!
Read about what he said about the pump i am very impressed with it. I hope i can buy a 4.5k rpm version even if i i have to run at 3k that 4.5k will come in handy for the summer


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> Like i said mad respect to Gabe and everyone at swiftech i like the way how they are taking care of things and keeping us in the loop!
> Read about what he said about the pump i am very impressed with it. I hope i can buy a 4.5k rpm version even if i i have to run at 3k that 4.5k will come in handy for the summer


No need too do that. 3k will perform well enough. Adjust fan speed and airflow.
If you want the 4.5k version, then no point in get the H220. Might as well go full custom instead.


----------



## yoi

poor ghost dude lol

that respond was soo damaging that Ghost now works at Swiftech ... LOL


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> No need too do that. 3k will perform well enough. Adjust fan speed and airflow.
> If you want the 4.5k version, then no point in get the H220. Might as well go full custom instead.


I may now consider a Full custom Loop now to be honest! I currently have a Haf X case and i would love to run a 400m radiator on the top with 2 200mm fans. Lower RPM's +Lots of airflow= very quiet system if im not mistaken. The problem is swiftech only makes 120 mm radiators and 140mm(from what i can see on their website). I hope in the future they do make radiators for bigger fans. Definitely want to buy their products!

On that note, since the new pump they designed is able to run at 4.5k same as the other pump they sell. I rather buy their in house made pump because it would help them out with a little more$ I live in SoCaL in the desert area and we get up to 110f in the summer regularly so getting up to 4.5k rpm would definitely help me personally imo.With all that being said watching those swiftech presentations has now intrigued me into the world of water cooling. Now i want to maximize my case space to its fullest! Cant wait to see what this guys come up with!


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> I may now consider a Full custom Loop now to be honest! I currently have a Haf X case and i would love to run a 400m radiator on the top with 2 200mm fans. Lower RPM's +Lots of airflow= very quiet system if im not mistaken. The problem is swiftech only makes 120 mm radiators and 140mm(from what i can see on their website). I hope in the future they do make radiators for bigger fans. Definitely want to buy their products!
> 
> On that note, since the new pump they designed is able to run at 4.5k same as the other pump they sell. I rather buy their in house made pump because it would help them out with a little more$ I live in SoCaL in the desert area and we get up to 110 in the summer regularly so getting up to 4.5k rpm would definitely help me personally imo.With all that being said watching those swiftech presentations has now intrigued me into the world of water cooling. Now i want to maximize my case space to its fullest! Cant wait to see what this guys come up with!


You might wanna check this out.
Replace the XSPC rads with dual Swifty MCR320-QP and you're set.
Those rads work great with low speed 120mm fans, and can be dead silent, when paired with an mcp35x pwm controlled pump.


----------



## WiSK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> I rather buy their in house made pump because it would help them out with a little more$


Gabe said that their margins are much tighter on this product. So compared to the Apogee Drive II they presumably make less overall profit. Once the AD2 stocks are emptied, it will be interesting to see if they start to sell the H220 waterblock/pump as a separate product. I think it looks much nicer, and would definitely consider buying it then.


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> You might wanna check this out.
> Replace the XSPC rads with dual Swifty MCR320-QP and you're set.
> Those rads work great with low speed 120mm fans, and can be dead silent, when paired with an mcp35x pwm controlled pump.


I was thinking of buying this radiator
http://www.heatsinkfactory.com/phobya-xtreme-400mm.html
It apparently just drops into the haf x case no problem and i can run 2 200mm lower rpm and Way more air flow compared to those 120mm. If i am not mistaken.
Than i can pcp35x pump? If swiftech made the rad 2 i would buy definitely!


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

The pump will be sold separately as mentioned. The pump do not run 4.5k, but tops at 3k only.
Any larger rads are specialty for a small market. That would work on the HAF X.

Understand it is not always about more airflow. How the rad was designed and fans used.
Good 240 rad can be effective or better than the 400mm one.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> I was thinking of buying this radiator
> http://www.heatsinkfactory.com/phobya-xtreme-400mm.html
> It apparently just drops into the haf x case no problem and i can run 2 200mm lower rpm and Way more air flow compared to those 120mm. If i am not mistaken.
> Than i can pcp35x pump? If swiftech made the rad 2 i would buy definitely!


There are non good 200mm fans that I know of...a 480mm rad up top might be best. See what most folks run, I never see people with 200mm rads, nor 180mm. Most guys use 240/360/480 rads.








And for good measure, the best fans in the market are 120mm, with a few good 140mm fans here and there.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> The pump will be sold separately as mentioned. The pump do not run 4.5k, but tops at 3k only.
> Any larger rads are specialty for a small market. That would work on the HAF X.
> 
> Understand it is not always about more airflow. How the rad was designed and fans used.
> Good 240 rad can be effective or better than the 400mm one.


A 240 would have to be awfully thick to outperform a 400 rad, since the latter has over 3 times the surface area (80,000 cubic millimeters vs. 28,800 cubic millimeters). The right fans are important, but there are a few good ones out there.


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ivanlabrie*
> 
> There are non good 200mm fans that I know of...a 480mm rad up top might be best. See what most folks run, I never see people with 200mm rads, nor 180mm. Most guys use 240/360/480 rads.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And for good measure, the best fans in the market are 120mm, with a few good 140mm fans here and there.


Correct me if I am wrong.Maybe I'm over thinking it or might be getting to ambitious but, take a look at this 200 mm fans
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835345035
they flow around 150 cfm around 900 RPM. Times that by 2 since ill be running that on a 400mm radiator approximately 300 CFM.
Versus using 3 120 MM. I will use the the corsair SP120 Hi performance edition as a example because i see people bringing those up a lot.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181027
they flow approximately 63 CFM at 2350 RPM. Times that by 3= 189 CFM

Here is a link for 120mm fans that run 80CFM and greater:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007998+600035590+600035655&QksAutoSuggestion=&ShowDeactivatedMark=False&Configurator=&IsNodeId=1&Subcategory=573&description=&hisInDesc=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&AdvancedSearch=1&srchInDesc=

From looking at those numbers. I just don't see how a 120mm is superior to a 200mm.Not even close to moving the same amount of air as a 200mm. Not only that, its going to be much quieter because those fans are running 900 RPM vs 2350 if i wanted to move 63CFM. I have looked at other 120mm fans and seen more that move more CFM. I also see that they require to run at higher rpms=more noise as well and cost more money. So in my opinion i rather run bigger fans since my case allows it!

Not only that but i have much bigger surface area on a 400mm versus a 360. I don't want to go 480 because i personally think it takes up to much room in my haf x. I will be able to keep my top header and my top bay and not have to eliminate it(I THINK). Also on what phelan said about the radiator. A 240 would have to be awfully thick to outperform a 400 rad, since the latter has over 3 times the surface area (80,000 cubic millimeters vs. 28,800 cubic millimeters). The right fans are important, but there are a few good ones out there.

I think the best way to utilize my case is by using a 400mm while still keeping the functionality of the top header and bays! Again this is my opinion and I am new to water cooling but I am pretty good at math. I also Fix automobiles for a living and computer cooling works very similar to car.

I think the reason we don't see bigger fans yet is because the trend has always been 120mm for so long on cases. Now i think other type of fans are being more common like the 140's.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> Correct me if I am wrong.Maybe I'm over thinking it or might be getting to ambitious but, take a look at this 200 mm fans
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835345035
> they flow around 150 cfm around 900 RPM. Times that by 2 since ill be running that on a 400mm radiator approximately 300 CFM.
> Versus using 3 120 MM. I will use the the corsair SP120 Hi performance edition as a example because i see people bringing those up a lot.
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835181027
> they flow approximately 63 CFM at 2350 RPM. Times that by 3= 189 CFM
> 
> Here is a link for 120mm fans that run 80CFM and greater:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007998+600035590+600035655&QksAutoSuggestion=&ShowDeactivatedMark=False&Configurator=&IsNodeId=1&Subcategory=573&description=&hisInDesc=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&AdvancedSearch=1&srchInDesc=
> 
> From looking at those numbers. I just don't see how a 120mm is superior to a 200mm.Not even close to moving the same amount of air as a 200mm. Not only that, its going to be much quieter because those fans are running 900 RPM vs 2350 if i wanted to move 63CFM. I have looked at other 120mm fans and seen more that move more CFM. I also see that they require to run at higher rpms as well and cost more money. So in my opinion i rather run bigger fans since my case allows it!
> 
> Not only that but i have much bigger surface area on a 400mm versus a 360. I dont want to go 480 because i personally think it takes up to much room in my haf x. Also on what phelan said about the radiator. A 240 would have to be awfully thick to outperform a 400 rad, since the latter has over 3 times the surface area (80,000 cubic millimeters vs. 28,800 cubic millimeters). The right fans are important, but there are a few good ones out there.
> 
> I think the best way to utilize my case is by using a 400mm while still keeping the functionality of the top header and bays! Again this is my opinion and I am new to water cooling but I am pretty good at math. I also Fix automobiles for a living and computer cooling works very similar to car.


CFM is not the key factor for radiator fans though, *Static Pressure* is and by rules of physics *it is harder to produce the same air pressure with larger fan* because the air will be flowing through a wider area.

Take the same Silverstone Air Penetrator Fans:

120mm AP121L, Static Pressure 1.71mm H2O
140mm AP 141L.Static Pressure 1.55mm H2O

Taking it up to 200mm would make the Pressure drop even more significant.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

It is not always about CFM. Most times the specs are not exactly what it is stated.
I have 120mm fans that blow more air, than my 200mm Mega Flows. I can actually feel it, while being quiet.
Not sure what the FPI is on the 200m rad.

Here is the Phobya 200mm build.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1200235/build-log-cpu-ferrari-phobya-xtreme-400mm-rad-inside-a-haf-x/0_50


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> It is not always about CFM. Most times the specs are not exactly what it is stated.
> I have 120mm fans that blow more air, than my 200mm Mega Flows. I can actually feel it, while being quiet.
> Not sure what the FPI is on the 200m rad.
> 
> Here is the Phobya 200mm build.
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1200235/build-log-cpu-ferrari-phobya-xtreme-400mm-rad-inside-a-haf-x/0_50


Thanks for the link. I think i now lost interest in that because i noticed he did indeed have to lose that top bay to stick that 400m radiator. I wish he would of show some load temps and OC temps but it looks like he never got around to it.

I think i will just wait for the h320 should be more than enough for what i need.

Thank you sherlock for the schooling on static pressure as well. Back to the drawing board lol


----------



## xion

Whats with the hate? This is amazing! Not everybody wants to build custom watercooling loops, like myself. I wish I wouldn't have got the h100i now..


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xion*
> 
> Whats with the hate? This is amazing! Not everybody wants to build custom watercooling loops, like myself. I wish I wouldn't have got the h100i now..


No one is hating on it on the contrary we are all supporting swiftech!


----------



## [email protected]

If it's swiftech then i have a feeling they will know what they are doing!

I'm willing to try this if it's already out but in the meantime i will have to lean towards Corsair cooler for the time being until this one comes out and i'll grab it asap!


----------



## leon63

This can't come out sooner.
What's the word on availability/preorder in Australia?


----------



## Crimsontech

I been following this thread for a little bit here and there. So, just to be clear...they are going to be releasing a 360mm version of this? Cause if so, I will just wait for that one and skip on the H220. Thanks!


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> If it's swiftech then i have a feeling they will know what they are doing!
> 
> I'm willing to try this if it's already out but in the meantime i will have to lean towards Corsair cooler for the time being until this one comes out and i'll grab it asap!


The H220 is release in Feb. Preorders should be soon.


----------



## Madmanden

So what's the warrenty on this thing, in case there's a leak or something?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Madmanden*
> 
> So what's the warrenty on this thing, in case there's a leak or something?


The warranty is 3 years. Also note that expanding the kit with another radiator, block, w/e will NOT void your warranty.


----------



## Dizz22r

It's decided! I am Waiting impatiently for the h320 lol.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> The warranty is 3 years. Also note that expanding the kit with another radiator, block, w/e will NOT void your warranty.


Thank you for confirming that, was going to ask about it.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> The warranty is 3 years. Also note that expanding the kit with another radiator, block, w/e will NOT void your warranty.


That's AWESOME!









Another vote for the H320, but with an mcr320-xp pretty please...


----------



## ez12a

Stephen, looking at the install guides for the existing combo rad/reservoir, do the orientations apply to the H220 product? This might be a deal breaker for me in a 600T unless i mount it on the side panel.

see: http://www.swiftech.com/MCR-X20-Drive-Rev3.aspx#tab4

I'll need to mount the H220 radiator "upside down" (fill port facing down) with the included fans mounted on the other side of the radiator if i want to place this at the top.

is this a concern with the H220 or will i need an external res?

unless i also just want the thing sitting on top of the case externally and have the tubes go through the backside.

edit: i know this has to do with gravity and the pump's orientation on that particular model.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> Stephen, looking at the install guides for the existing combo rad/reservoir, do the orientations apply to the H220 product? This might be a deal breaker for me in a 600T unless i mount it on the side panel.
> 
> see: http://www.swiftech.com/MCR-X20-Drive-Rev3.aspx#tab4
> 
> I'll need to mount the H220 radiator "upside down" (fill port facing down) with the included fans mounted on the other side of the radiator if i want to place this at the top.
> 
> is this a concern with the H220 or will i need an external res?
> 
> unless i also just want the thing sitting on top of the case externally and have the tubes go through the backside.
> 
> edit: i know this has to do with gravity and the pump's orientation on that particular model.


no, restrictions on MCR Drive products do not apply here, it's a completely different product. Restrictions apply only because the pump is attached the radiator itself.

As shipped the H220 can be installed in any direction. The only thing we wouldn't recommend is having the L-shape reservoir facing down - again it's a recommendation not an interdiction.


----------



## Roxycon

Will the block support the thermal armour of Asus sabertooth z77? and how will the fit be like with the 280 rad (or a 360, if you'll make them) in a cosmos2? Barely fits with a h100 which just make me feel ripped off









Seems like this may be realising my wc setup, want 2 240, a 360 or 280 and a 140







or at least replacing my crappy h100


----------



## fatlardo

So if the H220 is coming in Feb, bout the H320? Will the H320 fit in the Corsair 500R?


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> As shipped the H220 can be installed in any direction. The only thing we wouldn't recommend is having the L-shape reservoir facing down - again it's a recommendation not an interdiction.


gotcha. Is this due to the possibility of leaking (esp if opened to refill)? I plan on using it as i would an h100i, unmodified.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> gotcha. Is this due to the possibility of leaking (esp if opened to refill)? I plan on using it as i would an h100i, unmodified.


Yes it's obviously less convenient as you need to take the radiator off the refill. And also the reservoir when mounted upside right gives enough reserve of coolant to last for years without any maintenance, where as if mounted upside down you would likely need to refill or it would cost some possible gurgling noise (as the water level goes down)


----------



## Roxycon

Nvm, this wont fit the cosmos 2 with an sabertooth z77 without any mods







and a new case won't be bought in another 2-4 years I hope.. Custom WC will be the approach then.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roxycon*
> 
> Nvm, this wont fit the cosmos 2 with an sabertooth z77 without any mods
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and a new case won't be bought in another 2-4 years I hope.. Custom WC will be the approach then.


You could always put the rad in the bottom and get some longer tubing...


----------



## Ragsters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> You could always put the rad in the bottom and get some longer tubing...


Wouldn't the rad on the bottom be a bad Idea? I mean shouldn't the reservoir (water table) be higher than the pump?


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ragsters*
> 
> Wouldn't the rad on the bottom be a bad Idea? I mean shouldn't the reservoir (water table) be higher than the pump?


That only applies to a separate pump and reservoir configuration.

other AIOs have no problem being oriented whichever way, and stephen has said it doesnt matter though there are "recommended" ways of mounting it.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ragsters*
> 
> Wouldn't the rad on the bottom be a bad Idea? I mean shouldn't the reservoir (water table) be higher than the pump?


If you use it as an AIO or fill it completely up, it's a moot point. If you open it up and plan to use the existing res, then yes, it should be on top. But this is still a very affordable option if you plan to go full loop, since it has a top-of-the-line block (it's based off the Apogee HD), a very strong pump, a 240 rad, and 2 high-static pressure PWM fans, for $140.


----------



## Daredevil 720

You could always add an extra reservoir if you expand to full loop, or am I wrong?


----------



## Ragsters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> That only applies to a separate pump and reservoir configuration.
> 
> other AIOs have no problem being oriented whichever way, and stephen has said it doesnt matter though there are "recommended" ways of mounting it.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> If you use it as an AIO or fill it completely up, it's a moot point. If you open it up and plan to use the existing res, then yes, it should be on top. But this is still a very affordable option if you plan to go full loop, since it has a top-of-the-line block (it's based off the Apogee HD), a very strong pump, a 240 rad, and 2 high-static pressure PWM fans, for $140.


Well... I was specifically talking about needing to put the rad/reservoir higher than the pump when taking it apart.


----------



## DJ XtAzY

Can't wait to replace my Noctua air cooling. I really wish this is could be sold on Amazon.


----------



## stephenm

having the reservoir higher than the pump is only a practical thing to fill up/prime the loop. If you feel it up outside of the computer (always a good thing, especially when it's that easy with a small look like this) you can have the reservoir lower than the pump.

That being said the tubing should be long enough to be installed at the bottom without doing any modification.


----------



## Roxycon

A bottom fit in such a huge case would be messy IMO


----------



## Faithh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> having the reservoir higher than the pump is only a practical thing to fill up/prime the loop. If you feel it up outside of the computer (always a good thing, especially when it's that easy with a small look like this) you can have the reservoir lower than the pump.
> 
> That being said the tubing should be long enough to be installed at the bottom without doing any modification.


I just have one detailed question. If I'll be buying this H220 and I simply just want to replace the radiator immediately before use, is 100% of the water remaining in the entire closed loop system (incl rads + tubes) or just only in the reservoir when it's powered off?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faithh*
> 
> I just have one detailed question. If I'll be buying this H220 and I simply just want to replace the radiator immediately before use, is 100% of the water remaining in the entire closed loop system (incl rads + tubes) or just only in the reservoir when it's powered off?


there is coolant in the whole system (tubes, radiator/reservoir, block/pump). You can replace the radiator with a bigger one, you'll probably want to add a reservoir (if there is not one built in the radiator already) and you will need more coolant as the bigger the radiator the more coolant it takes to fill up the loop.

We'll have all spare parts available at release (although most accessories, spare parts, options are already available)


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> there is coolant in the whole system (tubes, radiator/reservoir, block/pump). You can replace the radiator with a bigger one, you'll probably want to add a reservoir (if there is not one built in the radiator already) and you will need more coolant as the bigger the radiator the more coolant it takes to fill up the loop.
> 
> We'll have all spare parts available at release (although most accessories, spare parts, options are already available)


Hey Stephen I think you guys are scaring the crap out of corsair! LOL They now released 140MM H90 and a 280MM h110 Liquid Coolers. I guess the h100i is not cutting it.
http://www.corsair.com/us/cpu-cooling-kits/hydro-series-water-cooling-cpu-cooler/hydro-series-h110-280mm-high-performance-liquid-cpu-cooler.html

They forgot to realize you guys also have those radiator's as well!


----------



## pratesh

If this is under $150 i'll prob get it. Looks compatible with the trooper so thats good to.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pratesh*
> 
> If this is under $150 i'll prob get it. Looks compatible with the trooper so thats good to.


retail price is 139.99. There's no reason to get the h100i at this point in time. Might as well wait to see how the h220 turns out in the real world. I can only hope the launch of this product wont be as problem ridden as the h100i.


----------



## Sand3853

Super stoked for this







I have been waiting for the Cooler Master Eisberg, but this looks to be even better. Being able to cool my cpu and gpu with a minimal footprint or modding in my Prodigy... Yes Please







February cant get here soon enough.


----------



## FeelKun

Can't wait, Issued a RMA today on my h100i (dead led).

Will you be able to purchase the H220 on Newegg or Amazon?


----------



## Aiid0z

I'm sold on this!

Just curious as to whether it will fit in the top of the corsair 500R?


----------



## Madmanden

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> The warranty is 3 years. Also note that expanding the kit with another radiator, block, w/e will NOT void your warranty.


Thanks! Also I just watched Linustechtips on the H220 and I'm ready to yell "shup up and take my money!" - it's just an awesome piece of kit!


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pratesh*
> 
> If this is under $150 i'll prob get it. Looks compatible with the trooper so thats good to.


we actually had it installed in a trooper at CES







as well as 2 additional radiators (front and bottom of the trooper + 2 Radeon 7970's all running off the one Waterblock/pump combo - base of the H220


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Resme*
> 
> Can't wait, Issued a RMA today on my h100i (dead led).
> 
> Will you be able to purchase the H220 on Newegg or Amazon?


most likely Newegg - Amazon, working on it
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aiid0z*
> 
> I'm sold on this!
> 
> Just curious as to whether it will fit in the top of the corsair 500R?


I got a few brand new chassis in the lab waiting for me to install the H220 and take pictures to show compatibility (including the 500R - and it fits)


----------



## DADDYDC650

I hope the H220 is available on Amazon and I'm also hoping that I'll have no issues installing it into my Level 10 GT full tower case.


----------



## twitchyzero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> The warranty is 3 years. Also note that expanding the kit with another radiator, block, w/e will NOT void your warranty.


I forget if this question has already been covered...but does the 3 year offer leak damage to other components? If so, how does it work? Case-by-case?


----------



## FeelKun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> most likely Newegg - Amazon, working on it


GREAT! Thanks for the response.


----------



## JackieTran

You said that the pump would be sold separately right?
If I were to buy all the parts for the h220 separately, would it cost more or less? So CPU pump, coolant, rad, fittings and tubing


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> You said that the pump would be sold separately right?
> If I were to buy all the parts for the h220 separately, would it cost more or less? So CPU pump, coolant, rad, fittings and tubing


It would most likely cost more.


----------



## Cyclonic

Hmm I foudn this pic.... Look @ the time from the Swiftech, compared to the others. It might be an error, and the time form the unit with the GPU's is correct and still gets an awewome time. Still why is the time of the first unit 3 hours back?


----------



## JackieTran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> It would most likely cost more.


It would be better if all the parts sold separately equaled the price of the h220 cause then people who want an expanded loop won't have to waste more money on coolants and tubing


----------



## JackieTran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclonic*
> 
> Stephenm,
> 
> Would you guys concider shipping it with with clear tubing﻿ and coloured coolant options? That would save alot of work for some people


+1


----------



## dairyproduce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> most likely Newegg - Amazon, working on it
> I got a few brand new chassis in the lab waiting for me to install the H220 and take pictures to show compatibility (including the 500R - and it fits)


Stephen, will one of those chassis include the Fractal Design R4? One of the previous posts state that I would have to "custom fit" the H220 for it to fit inside. What exactly does this mean?

Thanks!


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclonic*
> 
> Hmm I foudn this pic.... Look @ the time from the Swiftech, compared to the others. It might be an error, and the time form the unit with the GPU's is correct and still gets an awewome time. Still why is the time of the first unit 3 hours back?


the date/time you see is the coretemp log file that is generated when created.
It only shows that System1 has been running for 3 hours more than the other systems. Reason for this is that we regularly shut down (every 30-45 mn typically) the other system so that the press could hear the difference in noise between our system and the competition - which IMO one of the biggest advantage of our system - though pretty difficult information to pass along a forum post.

Anyway just the way we did the Demo's. It was difficult to make the press listen to HOW QUIET our system is when there is a corsair unit running next to it. That's all there is to it.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dairyproduce*
> 
> Stephen, will one of those chassis include the Fractal Design R4? One of the previous posts state that I would have to "custom fit" the H220 for it to fit inside. What exactly does this mean?
> 
> Thanks!


I don't have the FD R4 yet but I'll order it next week - will let you know.


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> I don't have the FD R4 yet but I'll order it next week - will let you know.


Hey Stephen Do you guys plan on releasing the h320 at the same time as the h220? Or will the h320 have a later released date than the h220?
Thanks!


----------



## dairyproduce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> I don't have the FD R4 yet but I'll order it next week - will let you know.


Thanks a bunch! Will probably get the H220 if it fits!


----------



## executor77

I am starting a new build soon and I am dead set to get the Corsair 550D. Will this case work with the H220?.


----------



## Ragsters

I'm sure you guys already thought about this before but you are going to make a case compatibility list right?


----------



## Pedros

I was going for a new custom loop but i'm going to wait. and go this root instead. I'm gonna use a Phobya 200mm rad plus this 240mm rad







Hope it will fit on my CM Storm Sniper


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ragsters*
> 
> I'm sure you guys already thought about this before but you are going to make a case compatibility list right?


yes we will be making a list of all chassis reported compatible as well as pictures of all chassis we actually tested


----------



## Ragsters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> yes we will be making a list of all chassis reported compatible as well as pictures of all chassis we actually tested












I'm just sick of people asking on this thread if their case will work.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> Hey Stephen Do you guys plan on releasing the h320 at the same time as the h220? Or will the h320 have a later released date than the h220?
> Thanks!


H220 will be released first


----------



## navit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> most likely Newegg - Amazon, working on it
> I got a few brand new chassis in the lab waiting for me to install the H220 and take pictures to show compatibility (including the 500R - and it fits)


Will one of those cases be a 600t? I have that and a sabertooth mobo, just wondering if the armor of the mobo is going to be in the way.


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> H220 will be released first


Right ON! If its not much to ask. Can you give us a time frame when the h320 will be released. Maybe 1-2 months after the h220? Thanks again!


----------



## dairyproduce

Just to clarify: the H320 is just the H220 but with one more fan slot in the radiator?


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dairyproduce*
> 
> Just to clarify: the H320 is just the H220 but with one more fan slot in the radiator?


H320 is the 3X120mm radiator option, so it is the 360mm radiator 3 fan version compared to h220 which is 240mm radiator 2 fan.


----------



## Cyclonic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> the date/time you see is the coretemp log file that is generated when created.
> It only shows that System1 has been running for 3 hours more than the other systems. Reason for this is that we regularly shut down (every 30-45 mn typically) the other system so that the press could hear the difference in noise between our system and the competition - which IMO one of the biggest advantage of our system - though pretty difficult information to pass along a forum post.
> 
> Anyway just the way we did the Demo's. It was difficult to make the press listen to HOW QUIET our system is when there is a corsair unit running next to it. That's all there is to it.


Thanks for explaining


----------



## tx-jose

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> H220 will be released first


first.?????

THERE IS A 320 coming!!!


----------



## tw33k

+1 for the H320


----------



## twitchyzero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> I forget if this question has already been covered...but does the 3 year offer leak damage to other components? If so, how does it work? Case-by-case?


Would be great if you could respond to this question, thanks stephen.


----------



## MeanBruce

Read all 51 pages, so wanting the H320 for my new CaseLabs M8, hoping the stock fans can easily be replaced.

Thank you Gabe!


----------



## navit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> Would be great if you could respond to this question, thanks stephen.


He did: Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragsters View Post

I'm sure you guys already thought about this before but you are going to make a case compatibility list right?
yes we will be making a list of all chassis reported compatible as well as pictures of all chassis we actually tested


----------



## DoktorCreepy

Will you be selling your HydrX-2 separately?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navit*
> 
> He did: Quote:
> Originally Posted by Ragsters View Post
> 
> I'm sure you guys already thought about this before but you are going to make a case compatibility list right?
> yes we will be making a list of all chassis reported compatible as well as pictures of all chassis we actually tested


Huh? He was talking about the leak warranty not the case compatibility list.


----------



## MeanBruce

Is it too early for any specs on pump noise? Are there any comparisons to other CLC pumps? H100i?

Also when will the H320 become available?

Thanks Swiftech.


----------



## navit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Huh? He was talking about the leak warranty not the case compatibility list.


Oh my you are right







I sometimes see words that aren't there. This was one of those times


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navit*
> 
> Oh my you are right
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I sometimes see words that aren't there. This was one of those times


Lol, no worries. I actually want to know about his question as well.


----------



## starships

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> Is it too early for any specs on pump noise? Are there any comparisons to other CLC pumps? H100i?
> 
> Also when will the H320 become available?
> 
> Thanks Swiftech.


They did quick tests by ear in the Linus and Elric CES vids and the Swiftech unit was quieter.


----------



## twitchyzero

Is there a reason they recommend "pushing" cold air through the rad into the case for top mount? Does it yield better temps?

Currently I have 200mm intake side, 2x120mm intake front, 120mm exhuast rear and it works very well for my 2 blower-leaf styled cards and air CPU cooler. I thinking for my situation it's probably best to keep chassis air as cool as possible so flip the included Helix fans around (still on top of the rad in top mount) to suck air out of the case?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> Is it too early for any specs on pump noise? Are there any comparisons to other CLC pumps? H100i?
> 
> Also when will the H320 become available?
> 
> Thanks Swiftech.


There are several videos on youtube and in this thread shoing comparisons between the H220 and the H100i and Thermaltake Water 2.0. It also shows a sound comparison. The new pump on the H220 is designed to be super-quiet also.


----------



## MeanBruce

I saw when Linus had the mic up to the fans at 1400rpm, was wondering about just the pumps. This product is so awesome, I'll wait till OCN members let us all know how they feel about the pumps when the H220s come out next month and then an H320 sounds perfect.

The H100i pump has a slight high freq whine to it but its pretty quiet, hoping with increased power the H220/H320 don't come with increased pump noise.


----------



## Logical

Does anyone know when these will become available? Thanks.


----------



## fatlardo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Logical*
> 
> Does anyone know when these will become available? Thanks.


Sometime in Feb.


----------



## Aiid0z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Logical*
> 
> Does anyone know when these will become available? Thanks.


You will be able to pre-order soon and its going to be available mid-late February.


----------



## Logical

Thank you.


----------



## Aiid0z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Logical*
> 
> Thank you.


You're welcome.


----------



## WiSK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> Is there a reason they recommend "pushing" cold air through the rad into the case for top mount? Does it yield better temps?


The higher the difference between the rad water temp, and air temp going through the rad, the more heat will be transferred. Yes, you will then have warmer air being blown into the case, but radiators don't heat air up as much as you might think. Check any Skinnee or MLL test to see generally that the difference between air in and air out is less than 10C. So as long as you have an exhaust fan nearby, say back of the case, then you'll get good CPU temps at the expense of a little bit of internal case temps.


----------



## JackieTran

Quote:


> Originally posted by Ghost
> Compare yourself to an 18W Laing DDC-1Plus pump. Yeah, didn't think so. Now your 5W seems kind of childish to boast about.
> 
> Incorrect: the pump is rated at 6Watts - and we are absolutely not ashamed to comparing against the Laing (our MCP35X) either. In fact, prior to releasing the kit, at equal 4500 RPM this pump was able to beat the 35X pressure wise by 0.5 mH20 (4.7 for ours vs 4.2 for the 35X). We intentionally not implemented high speed in the kit in order to blend operating noise with fans.


http://img.techpowerup.org/080923/DDC32v31SolderBridge.jpg

Like the mcp 350, can we increase the wattage with a solder mod?


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Omg this looks amazing!
Blows the Corsair, and Antec's out the water - quite literally?

THAT pump is insane.

EDIT:
Would love to see how this would perform on my system!


----------



## brian1115

My only question is did they have the firmware update from Corsair that reduces the noise of the pump while using the H100i?


----------



## chris-br

will it fit RAVEN 3 case??? I was thinking on placing the rad on the botton.


----------



## Sozin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> yes we will be making a list of all chassis reported compatible as well as pictures of all chassis we actually tested


Wow that's pretty awesome, I can't wait to see it. Will this be out before the H220 launches?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navit*
> 
> Will one of those cases be a 600t? I have that and a sabertooth mobo, just wondering if the armor of the mobo is going to be in the way.


Yes I already received the 600T, I can already tell you it fits but I'll make a mockup with a sabertooth just to be sure.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> Would be great if you could respond to this question, thanks stephen.


Warranty isn't voided when you open up the loop to add components (blocks, rads, etc).
We won't be held responsible of any damage done to other components in the process of draining, reinstalling a tube, anything related to opening up the system.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DoktorCreepy*
> 
> Will you be selling your HydrX-2 separately?


yes, same story for the new clamps, tubing, etc
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> Is it too early for any specs on pump noise? Are there any comparisons to other CLC pumps? H100i?
> 
> Also when will the H320 become available?
> 
> Thanks Swiftech.


within a couple of months of the release of the H220.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> Is there a reason they recommend "pushing" cold air through the rad into the case for top mount? Does it yield better temps?
> 
> Currently I have 200mm intake side, 2x120mm intake front, 120mm exhuast rear and it works very well for my 2 blower-leaf styled cards and air CPU cooler. I thinking for my situation it's probably best to keep chassis air as cool as possible so flip the included Helix fans around (still on top of the rad in top mount) to suck air out of the case?


Yes it will yield better temps for any system with low/quiet internal ventilation (such systems typically have an internal air temperature between 5-12C higher than the ambient air)


----------



## [T]yphoon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> Logitech is next lol


EKWB


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> yes, same story for the new clamps, tubing, etc
> within a couple of months of the release of the H220.
> Yes it will yield better temps for any system with low/quiet internal ventilation (such systems typically have an internal air temperature between 5-12C higher than the ambient air)


yes it will.

we already have the product page up - it's not compatible, just a piece holder for the final product page. this will allow our channels to place their orders so they can then implement customers pre-order on their website..

http://www.swiftech.com/H220.aspx


----------



## hpak

Stephen, I have a bit older case, the haf 922. Will the h220 fit at top or will I have to mount the fans above the case? The h100 fits my sig rig, but by the dimensions provided earlier, I'm not sure the h220 would make it.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hpak*
> 
> Stephen, I have a bit older case, the haf 922. Will the h220 fit at top or will I have to mount the fans above the case? The h100 fits my sig rig, but by the dimensions provided earlier, I'm not sure the h220 would make it.


The H100 is 50mm with fans, H220 is 54mm with fans. You can measure how it will fit in your case and mobo.


----------



## twitchyzero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Warranty isn't voided when you open up the loop to add components (blocks, rads, etc).
> We won't be held responsible of any damage done to other components in the process of draining, reinstalling a tube, anything related to opening up the system.


Thanks for responding ...especially on a weekend!

Not the answer I was hoping for (since it's 3 years vs the 5 from competitor) but not a deal breaker either


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> Thanks for responding ...especially on a weekend!
> 
> Not the answer I was hoping for (since it's 3 years vs the 5 from competitor) but not a deal breaker either


It is not surprising since it is their first AIO product it is risky to offer a long term warranty without actual usage data. NZXT's Kraken comes with 2 year warranty most likely for the same reason. Corsair have been in the AIO Business a lot longer(H50 released in 2009) so they have a large database to estimate their warranty cost from.


----------



## Roadkill95

20000+ views







I've been spreading the word and got a few of my friends to buy the swiftech H220 instead of the H100i


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> 20000+ views
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've been spreading the word and got a few of my friends to buy the swiftech H220 instead of the H100i


I mean if i had friends who would be interested in WC, i would have pointed them in the same direction. there isn't a real loss when using this loop as you can always add in another pump if you really wanted more pumping power for any kind or reason. I mean I would have bought the h220* on the spot if it weren't the few things stopping me(no point in wc an i3/wallet/cant top mount on my case, have to front or bottom).


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Yes I already received the 600T, I can already tell you it fits but I'll make a mockup with a sabertooth just to be sure.
> Warranty isn't voided when you open up the loop to add components (blocks, rads, etc).
> We won't be held responsible of any damage done to other components in the process of draining, reinstalling a tube, anything related to opening up the system.


If you can fit this in a 600T, you must be mounting it upside down, with the fans on the outside of the case under the removable top.


----------



## Tom Thumb

I think I may have to do a case swap with my son. My 600T for his HAF 932 Black Edition. I could than do push pull in that thing easy!


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> If you can fit this in a 600T, you must be mounting it upside down, with the fans on the outside of the case under the removable top.


precisely


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hpak*
> 
> Stephen, I have a bit older case, the haf 922. Will the h220 fit at top or will I have to mount the fans above the case? The h100 fits my sig rig, but by the dimensions provided earlier, I'm not sure the h220 would make it.


it fits the 932 with a lot of space to spare... Not sure about the 922 I will have to get back to you on this


----------



## navit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Yes I already received the 600T, I can already tell you it fits but I'll make a mockup with a sabertooth just to be sure.
> Warranty isn't voided when you open up the loop to add components (blocks, rads, etc).
> We won't be held responsible of any damage done to other components in the process of draining, reinstalling a tube, anything related to opening up the system.


Cool, thanks


----------



## Dizz22r

Honestly I already put money aside for my h320. Now I just have to wait for the them to launch. On that note, I read a post by GABE on
http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?s=81052e94ffcedbadcfccd2688c1b0a15&t=178180&page=3

That when they sell the pump unit by itself it can be compared the the 35x pump. Does that mean they are unleashing the beast at 4.5k?

"It is comparable in the sense that we used the 35X as a model (without copying of course, since there are patents on the product): same form factor (size), similar impeller style (9 curved fins), different motor and bearing. We improved on the noise level by filling it up with epoxy (no it doesn't overheat since it's only running at 3k max, and has a very efficient motor/bearing). In terms of overall output, it's obviously less powerfull than the 35X, but not because we couldn't make it so, but rather because we wanted it so: we sought to reduce operating noise for this kit, and blend the pump noise with the fans noise, and we dropped the pump speed from its original 4500 rpm (4,7mH2O) down to 3k rpm. When we release the pump as a standalone unit, then it will be fully comparable to the 35X."

THANK YOU GABE! Now i just have to wait HOORAH!


----------



## fatlardo

What is the best fans for the money I can buy to use push/pull quite setup for this guys?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fatlardo*
> 
> What is the best fans for the money I can buy to use push/pull quite setup for this guys?


The fan that come with is very good. 120mm PWM.
http://www.swiftech.com/Helix120mm-PWM.aspx

There is a non PWM version, same specs.
http://www.swiftech.com/Helix120mm-PWM.aspx


----------



## chris-br

Did i miss something or you just didn't see my question?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fatlardo*
> 
> What is the best fans for the money I can buy to use push/pull quite setup for this guys?


Best bang for the buck for a push pull configuration with the H220? just buy another pair of Helix120-PWM which you can plug on the splitter. These are good fans and you don't need to buy 4 since you already got 2 with the kit.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chris-br*
> 
> will it fit RAVEN 3 case??? I was thinking on placing the rad on the botton.


In the bunch of cases I already have for test fit there is a Raven RV02, but no RV03. I will let you know what I find with the RV02...


----------



## PillarOfAutumn

I really apologize if this has been asked before, but I'm on my phone and as a result I can't search properly. Stephen, when is this the prospected release date for this?

edit:
one of my questions got answered ?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chris-br*
> 
> Did i miss something or you just didn't see my question?


Why not check to see if you can mount a 240mm rad on bottom on your RAVEN 3.
You can see the dimensions here.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PillarOfAutumn*
> 
> I really apologize if this has been asked before, but I'm on my phone and as a result I can't search properly. Stephen, when is this the prospected release date for this?
> 
> Also, will this fit in the Shinobi XL? What are the dimensions of this?


Release in Feb.
Will fit a Shinobi XL on top or bottom.
Dimensions is post above.


----------



## Metric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navit*
> 
> Will one of those cases be a 600t? I have that and a sabertooth mobo, just wondering if the armor of the mobo is going to be in the way.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> If you can fit this in a 600T, you must be mounting it upside down, with the fans on the outside of the case under the removable top.


Corsair 600T and H100 with internal mount rad and fans.

Erik in sac









MasterSax











Spoiler: Multiple user builds



KinNCIX




neau7Ill




diaz




































vitality








































Spoiler: User build YouTube videos



Corsair H100 test temp, i5-750 @4,2 Gh, 4 fans 2 stock and 2 N-NF-F12.





Corsair H100 Install in 600T case.wmv





Corsair H100 Install in 600T case (UPDATE).wmv








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chris-br*
> 
> will it fit RAVEN 3 case??? I was thinking on placing the rad on the botton.


You can switch to an external optical disc drive if need be.

Silverstone Raven RV03 and H100 with internal mount rad and fans.

DarkStarCow











Spoiler: Multiple user builds



AgentSmith2k





amvnz







Silverstone Raven RV03 and 240mm rad custom water with internal mount rad and fans.

Diber









cerbrus2




















Spoiler: Multiple user builds



isodummy



























Qu1ckset


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> In the bunch of cases I already have for test fit there is a Raven RV02, but no RV03. I will let you know what I find with the RV02...[/quote
> 
> I have a Rosewill Blackhawk Ultra Full Tower Gaming case. Currently I have a Corsair H100 installed on top replacing the two standard 230mm fans on top. Will the Swiftech radiator fit there? Also besides the superior pump is the radiator better than on the H100 and upcoming H110 from Corsair? What is the metallic radiator core made of and is it different than on Corsair? Under full load what kind of temps can I expect onthe AMD FX 8350 ona quality motherboard like the Asus Crosshair V with the Swiftech H220?


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> In the bunch of cases I already have for test fit there is a Raven RV02, but no RV03. I will let you know what I find with the RV02...[/quote
> 
> I have a Rosewill Blackhawk Ultra Full Tower Gaming case. Currently I have a Corsair H100 installed on top replacing the two standard 230mm fans on top. Will the Swiftech radiator fit there? Also besides the superior pump is the radiator better than on the H100 and upcoming H110 from Corsair? What is the metallic radiator core made of and is it different than on Corsair? Under full load what kind of temps can I expect onthe AMD FX 8350 ona quality motherboard like the Asus Crosshair V with the Swiftech H220?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Metric*
> 
> Corsair 600T and H100 with internal mount rad and fans.


The 600T already is a tight fit with H100. H220 is slightly thicker by 2mm. Which can be an issue what a Corsair case was designed to fit there own coolers.
That RV03 from with H100 is in front instead of a 240 rad, is very different.

Showing what H100 will fit is not a good example and should be used.
This would cause confusion and more explanation needs to be done.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Ya, to mount the h100 in the 600t, you have to position the unit closer towards the windowed side panel of the case to get the fans attached on the inside. Not a big fan of this installation method. The first pick looks like an even worst method of mounting. Just my opinion though.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> In the bunch of cases I already have for test fit there is a Raven RV02, but no RV03. I will let you know what I find with the RV02...


I would love to hear feedback on how the H220 is mounted on the RV02 since that's the case I have.

I'm assuming it's going to be mounted at the bottom where the AP-181 fans are. I'd love to see what mount you use and such to get it working there.

+Rep for all the questions being answered!!!


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> I have a Rosewill Blackhawk Ultra Full Tower Gaming case. Currently I have a Corsair H100 installed on top replacing the two standard 230mm fans on top. Will the Swiftech radiator fit there? Also besides the superior pump is the radiator better than on the H100 and upcoming H110 from Corsair? What is the metallic radiator core made of and is it different than on Corsair? Under full load what kind of temps can I expect onthe AMD FX 8350 ona quality motherboard like the Asus Crosshair V with the Swiftech H220?


The H110/H100/H100i/NZXT X60 all have aluminum radiators. The radiator core in the H220 is copper.


----------



## Metric

Did you all notice the additional photos and videos in that 600T and RV03 post, under the spoiler tags?

Here it is again without the individual spoiler tag sections.



Spoiler: Corsair 600T and Silverstone RV03 with 240 rads mounted.



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navit*
> 
> Will one of those cases be a 600t? I have that and a sabertooth mobo, just wondering if the armor of the mobo is going to be in the way.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> If you can fit this in a 600T, you must be mounting it upside down, with the fans on the outside of the case under the removable top.


Corsair 600T and H100 with internal mount rad and fans.

Erik in sac









MasterSax









KinNCIX




neau7Ill




diaz




































vitality




































Corsair H100 test temp, i5-750 @4,2 Gh, 4 fans 2 stock and 2 N-NF-F12.





Corsair H100 Install in 600T case.wmv





Corsair H100 Install in 600T case (UPDATE).wmv





Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chris-br*
> 
> will it fit RAVEN 3 case??? I was thinking on placing the rad on the botton.


You can switch to an external optical disc drive if need be.

Silverstone Raven RV03 and H100 with internal mount rad and fans.

DarkStarCow









AgentSmith2k





amvnz





Silverstone Raven RV03 and 240mm rad custom water with internal mount rad and fans.

Diber









cerbrus2


















isodummy



























Qu1ckset

























































Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> I would love to hear feedback on how the H220 is mounted on the RV02 since that's the case I have.
> 
> I'm assuming it's going to be mounted at the bottom where the AP-181 fans are. I'd love to see what mount you use and such to get it working there.
> 
> +Rep for all the questions being answered!!!


Most FT02 and Rv02 owners run their 240 rads (especially slim 240s) above the 180mm fans, unless there is a component obstructing it. In the case of thicker or larger rads, people tend to remove the 180mm fans. IIRC, the FT02s come with a bracket to mount 2x120 fans, or rads. If I'm not mistaken, standard RV02s may be able to fit certain 240s in the ODD bay, unlike the revised RV02-E which have a truncated ODD bay like the FT02s. If you have a standard RV02 have a look at the pics underneath the spoiler tag at the top of this post to see how that mount would look in an RV03.

Here are some bottom mount 240 builds. H100 used as a rough example.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/343375-28-case-push-pull-h100
http://forum.overclock3d.net/showthread.php?t=45446
http://www.overclock.net/t/1155032/h100-in-rv02-e
http://uk.hardware.info/usersystems/18077/raven-rv-02-evolution----extreme-game-pc!!










Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> The 600T already is a tight fit with H100. H220 is slightly thicker by 2mm. Which can be an issue what a Corsair case was designed to fit there own coolers.


The 600T is designed to fit 2x120 fans with limited support for dual rads. It is not designed to work with Corsair products alone.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> That RV03 from with H100 is in front instead of a 240 rad, is very different.


You seem to have overlooked the last portion of that post, which shows 3 separate 240mm rads in custom water loops, which are all bulkier than the other H100 builds posted.

One custom build has a thick 240 in the floor. Two custom water builds house their 240mm rads in the ODD bays, and under one of the spoiler tags is an H100 placed above the RV03's stock 180mm fans, which is what chris-br was originally inquiring about.

Along with the bottom mount clearance for an H220, you'll see there is room to fit an H220 in the RV03's ODD bay area.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Showing what H100 will fit is not a good example and should be used.
> This would cause confusion and more explanation needs to be done.


I disagree. I chose an H100 to give an approximation of available space as it's one of the best known AIOs, with endless measurements and fitments available online, which people can use to gauge their builds by.

Even accounting for the res and structural differences between the rads, the Corsair and Swiftech are not vastly different.

As has already been covered, in situations where keeping the H220's res facing upwards is preferable, the fans can remain above the rad pulling air out of the case.

There are measurements in this thread of the H220 and Stephen from Swiftech has already stated the H220 fits in the 600T, from his limited testing. YMMV. I posted the H100 only as an approximation. That's all.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> Ya, to mount the h100 in the 600t, you have to position the unit closer towards the windowed side panel of the case to get the fans attached on the inside. Not a big fan of this installation method. The first pick looks like an even worst method of mounting. Just my opinion though.


That depends on your choice of components, of course. You'll notice one of the videos in that post features a 600T with fully internal push/pull H100 inside the top.

Another video shows a push/pull H100 attached to the HDD cage. Below is a third H100 internal push/pull build from that post which features another HDD cage mount.

I'm only trying to help give people an idea of potential configurations, including trying to gauge your build in relation to the different motherboards above for clearance concerns.

KinNCIX


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Sorry Metric, but using the h100 as an example is not a good choice.
The design and size is different, and will not only be very confusing for many.

Instead of waste huge post to scroll on, try to show actual watercooling kits, similar to H220. The last two image will never work for the H220. As placement at each end will not be able to mount the fan.
I know you want to help, but do it more closely to what is needed.


----------



## dartuil

can i have the release date for the h220 please


----------



## kevindd992002

I hope the OP appends the said release date of this cooler to the first post. The release date just keeps on being asked every single hour.


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dartuil*
> 
> can i have the release date for the h220 please


mid late febuary, but preorders will be released in a timely fashion


----------



## Pedros

So, guys, one question. To use the H220 with more than 1 rad... it would be something like Pump > Rad1 > Rad2 > Pump, correct? 2 Rads before the block, rock


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> I hope the OP appends the said release date of this cooler to the first post. The release date just keeps on being asked every single hour.


^ THIS

Come on OP you know this will make it easier!


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pedros*
> 
> So, guys, one question. To use the H220 with more than 1 rad... it would be something like Pump > Rad1 > Rad2 > Pump, correct? 2 Rads before the block, rock


no matter you look at it, if you have 2 radiators no matter how you install them you will always have 2 radiators before the block haha


----------



## navit

Here is a silly Question that I haven't seen asked.... Will it come pre applied with TIM or will we get to choose our own?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navit*
> 
> Here is a silly Question that I haven't seen asked.... Will it come pre applied with TIM or will we get to choose our own?


no pre-applied TIM, we include a tube of Swiftech TM2 which will also be available by itself soon. TM2 performance is quite a bit better than TM1 by the way.


----------



## dartuil

do you have a idea of the price relaease in euope?

because here 140$ isnt 140€ but sometimes more something like 160-180


----------



## navit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> no pre-applied TIM, we include a tube of Swiftech TM2 which will also be available by itself soon. TM2 performance is quite a bit better than TM1 by the way.


Very nice, thanks


----------



## fatlardo

How much difference in temps you think this will have from a Noctua D14?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fatlardo*
> 
> How much difference in temps you think this will have from a Noctua D14?


There is no actual review yet as H220 is not released.
The good thing is that you could add GPU blocks to your 660 and cool them also.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dartuil*
> 
> do you have a idea of the price relaease in euope?
> 
> because here 140$ isnt 140€ but sometimes more something like 160-180


with us, the price in EUR usually ends equal or lower than the price in USD


----------



## dartuil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fatlardo*
> 
> How much difference in temps you think this will have from a Noctua D14?


I think not a lot maybe 5-10 °C and 15 in OC like 4.7ghz
The advantage come in the fact it can handle two waterblocks without buying anothers pumps








Thats where I get in release it please!!!!!!!!!


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fatlardo*
> 
> How much difference in temps you think this will have from a Noctua D14?


The h100i can already beat the D14 if you dont mind the fans running at full speed. I would say at least 6C given the same circumstances.


----------



## Gallien

so would this pump push 1x360 1x480 and 1xCPU Block + 2xGPU Blocks?


----------



## Master Freez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gallien*
> 
> so would this pump push 1x360 1x480 and 1xCPU Block + 2xGPU Blocks?


How you gonna fill the system with ....does it make any sense to have internal reservoir with pump on cpu in big case like yours?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gallien*
> 
> so would this pump push 1x360 1x480 and 1xCPU Block + 2xGPU Blocks?


The H220 worked with 2x 240 + 280 + 2x 7970.
With your sizes, you might just want to go full custom instead if you are going to use the H220 with it.


----------



## Master Freez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> The H220 worked with 2x 240 + 280 + 2x 7970.
> With your sizes, you might just want to go full custom instead if you are going to use the H220 with it.


+1


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gallien*
> 
> so would this pump push 1x360 1x480 and 1xCPU Block + 2xGPU Blocks?


Given you install the GPU's in parallel it shouldn't be a problem, the 5th system we had on demo at CES had 3 radiators, CPU and 2 GPU's.


----------



## Gallien

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Master Freez*
> 
> How you gonna fill the system with ....does it make any sense to have internal reservoir with pump on cpu in big case like yours?


I ask, because I want to start off in watercooling with the 360 version of this cooler. From there expand to a 480 + the 360 in the Corsair 900D and watercool 2x GPUs with it. (Tax returns) LOL


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gallien*
> 
> I ask, because I want to start off in watercooling with the 360 version of this cooler. From there expand to a 480 + the 360 in the Corsair 900D and watercool 2x GPUs with it. (Tax returns) LOL


Well that is different. You didnt mention you wanted the 360 version first. You can add a 480 + 2x gpu to the 360 version without problems.


----------



## ivanlabrie

How would you know?









I expect the low to be enough though, after reading plenty of reviews at Martin's site...People go overkill with flow normally. I wonder how much will the standalone pump/wb will go for.








I'd rather get that and an mcr220-XP unless they come out with an XP version


----------



## Metric

*Unboxing* - [Cowcot TV] Kit watercooling Swiftech H220






Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Sorry Metric, but using the h100 as an example is not a good choice.
> The design and size is different, and will not only be very confusing for many.
> 
> Instead of waste huge post to scroll on, try to show actual watercooling kits, similar to H220. The last two image will never work for the H220. As placement at each end will not be able to mount the fan.
> I know you want to help, but do it more closely to what is needed.


It's as though you haven't read either of those posts or, for whatever reason, aren't grasping what it is I was trying to convey.

It wouldn't be the first time this has happened with you. I don't know what the cause is but it's okay, I'll leave it at that and move on.


----------



## Pedros

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> no matter you look at it, if you have 2 radiators no matter how you install them you will always have 2 radiators before the block haha


LoL i know, it's just, usually you get pump, rad, block, rad, reservoir, pump ... what i meant for real, was that the loop would be, pump/block, rad rad, pump/block









I'm really looking forward to use the Swiftech system, since it will simplify the install in small cases.

Oh, btw, it would be great to know if the H220 would fit a CM Storm Sniper







I was going for a custom loop but i was having a hard time finding a good rad that would be thin and still get a good performance. I know thicker ones will always be better but... the mods i need to do to the case will destroy it and it will look silly ( basically, cutting the top area of the case ( metal and plastic ) so it can fit ...


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pedros*
> 
> LoL i know, it's just, usually you get pump, rad, block, rad, reservoir, pump ... what i meant for real, was that the loop would be, pump/block, rad rad, pump/block
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really looking forward to use the Swiftech system, since it will simplify the install in small cases.
> 
> Oh, btw, it would be great to know if the H220 would fit a CM Storm Sniper
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was going for a custom loop but i was having a hard time finding a good rad that would be thin and still get a good performance. I know thicker ones will always be better but... the mods i need to do to the case will destroy it and it will look silly ( basically, cutting the top area of the case ( metal and plastic ) so it can fit ...


I'll try to put my hands on the the Sniper for you.
There is quite a bit of misconception about the radiator thickness. Thicker doesn't mean better, really. And differences if there are any, are usually pretty small...


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Metric*
> 
> *Unboxing* - [Cowcot TV] Kit watercooling Swiftech H220
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's as though you haven't read either of those posts or, for whatever reason, aren't grasping what it is I was trying to convey.
> 
> It wouldn't be the first time this has happened with you. I don't know what the cause is but it's okay, I'll leave it at that and move on.


thanks for the link








by the way for those of you who don't speak French, he mentioned that the packaging box wasn't printed yet on the first samples that were handed out during CES.


----------



## stephenm

here's a link for those of you looking at pre-ordering: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/18290/ex-wat-242/


----------



## hpak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> it fits the 932 with a lot of space to spare... Not sure about the 922 I will have to get back to you on this


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> The H100 is 50mm with fans, H220 is 54mm with fans. You can measure how it will fit in your case and mobo.


The reason I ask is because my MB, Asus P5P55D Pro, has the 8 pin on the top edge of the board that could possibly limit the rad/fan installation.


----------



## fatlardo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> here's a link for those of you looking at pre-ordering: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/18290/ex-wat-242/


Did preorder sell out? I dont see an option.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> here's a link for those of you looking at pre-ordering: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/18290/ex-wat-242/


sweet, now i'm eagerly awaiting for it to appear on amazon!


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fatlardo*
> 
> Did preorder sell out? I dont see an option.


It is just listed. Preorder should be soon. Just keep checking.


----------



## sherlock

Waiting for the case compatibility list, will probably make up my mind after that.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> Waiting for the case compatibility list, will probably make up my mind after that.


What case you want to know. Not every case is going to be listed. Your case will fit.


----------



## syngelic

is it going to fit in a 400r or 600t? have a msi z77a-g45 in the 400r and a asrock z77 extreme4 in the 600t thanks


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *syngelic*
> 
> is it going to fit in a 400r or 600t? have a msi z77a-g45 in the 400r and a asrock z77 extreme4 in the 600t thanks


It will fit both cases, but it is only based on the mobo you use.
With that board the 8pin is right at edge. So you will need to measure 55mm from mount spot to top of mobo.


----------



## Turfy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> It will fit both cases, but it is only based on the mobo you use.
> With that board the 8pin is right at edge. So you will need to measure 55mm from mount spot to top of mobo.


I have an ASRock Extreme4 Mobo in the 600t, would I have to do any modifications? seeing as the fans go under the mesh and not in the case, that would mean I need what ever clearance it is for just the radiator, but I feel like the 8pin clip might be in the way, the h100 is RIGHT on the edge of the 8pin. Maybe I could shave off the 8pin clip?


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> What case you want to know. Not every case is going to be listed. Your case will fit.


I read that Stephen will bring in an R4 to test:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> I don't have the FD R4 yet but I'll order it next week - will let you know.


I'll wait until I see that before making my decision.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> I read that Stephen will bring in an R4 to test:
> 
> I'll wait until I see that before making my decision.


quick update on case compatibility, we've installed and taken picture of nearly 10 common chassis, 100% compatibility so far.

I'll start putting these pictures on the website shortly.

500R is compatible
600T is compatible
FD R4 is compatible

400R I don't have it


----------



## fatlardo

Wooohoooo!


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> here's a link for those of you looking at pre-ordering: http://www.frozencpu.com/products/18290/ex-wat-242/


Waiting on the H320 Preorder!SO CLOSE!I can see it in my case


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Turfy*
> 
> I have an ASRock Extreme4 Mobo in the 600t, would I have to do any modifications? seeing as the fans go under the mesh and not in the case, that would mean I need what ever clearance it is for just the radiator, but I feel like the 8pin clip might be in the way, the h100 is RIGHT on the edge of the 8pin. Maybe I could shave off the 8pin clip?


If yours is right no the edge, H220 is slightly thicker by 2mm.
What you might have to do is flip the rad fill port down, and mount the fans on top of case. Which you can do, but not the best solution.


----------



## dartuil

and the NZXT PHantom?
http://www.materiel.net/boitier-pc/nzxt-phantom-usb-3-0-edition-blanc-70957.html
I want h220


----------



## Turfy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> quick update on case compatibility, we've installed and taken picture of nearly 10 common chassis, 100% compatibility so far.
> 
> I'll start putting these pictures on the website shortly.
> 
> 500R is compatible
> 600T is compatible
> FD R4 is compatible
> 
> 400R I don't have it


600t with Asrock z77 extreme 4?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> If yours is right no the edge, H220 is slightly thicker by 2mm.
> What you might have to do is flip the rad fill port down, and mount the fans on top of case. Which you can do, but not the best solution.


I don't mind doing that, it's not a problem, but I feel like the 8pin connector might be in the way. Is shaving the clip on the 8pin safe? I mean I push it in all the way, I don't think it's coming out any time soon.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Turfy*
> 
> 600t with Asrock z77 extreme 4?
> I don't mind doing that, it's not a problem, but I feel like the 8pin connector might be in the way. Is shaving the clip on the 8pin safe? I mean I push it in all the way, I don't think it's coming out any time soon.


Cutting anything from mobo will void your warranty for anything later on, and not advised to do so.
If you remove the fans from the H220 and mount it directly to the case with the fill port down and fans on top of case, you will have plenty of room.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dartuil*
> 
> and the NZXT PHantom?
> http://www.materiel.net/boitier-pc/nzxt-phantom-usb-3-0-edition-blanc-70957.html
> I want h220


You case is problems. You will have to work out ways to do.
Here is a build log for the Phantom. The rad will only be help in place with the 4 middle screws.
http://www.overclock.net/t/1110282/work-log-nzxt-phantom-xspc-rs360-kit/0_50


----------



## Turfy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Cutting anything from mobo will void your warranty for anything later on, and not advised to do so.
> If you remove the fans from the H220 and mount it directly to the case with the fill port down and fans on top of case, you will have plenty of room.


The thing is that the H100 comes so close to the clip on the 8pin extension, not the actual connector. I honestly don't think it would fit.

http://i.imgur.com/EKTMjAI.jpg

See what I mean?


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> quick update on case compatibility, we've installed and taken picture of nearly 10 common chassis, 100% compatibility so far.
> 
> I'll start putting these pictures on the website shortly.
> 
> 500R is compatible
> 600T is compatible
> *FD R4 is compatible*
> 
> 400R I don't have it


Yeah


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Turfy*
> 
> 600t with Asrock z77 extreme 4?
> I don't mind doing that, it's not a problem, but I feel like the 8pin connector might be in the way. Is shaving the clip on the 8pin safe? I mean I push it in all the way, I don't think it's coming out any time soon.


you can install the kit with the tubes to the front or to the rear. If you have a 8PIN connector in the way toward the back, just install the kit with the tubes to the rear - if you look at the drawings you'll understand why I suggest this


----------



## stephenm

I've uploaded the first run of 10-11 common chassis here: http://www.swiftech.com/h220.aspx
In most cases you can actually install the radiators and/or fans in different positions.

There is also a first review that's been posted on XCPUS: http://www.xcpus.com/reviews/corsair-h100i-vs-the-swiftech-h220


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Turfy*
> 
> The thing is that the H100 comes so close to the clip on the 8pin extension, not the actual connector. I honestly don't think it would fit.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/EKTMjAI.jpg
> 
> See what I mean?


hard to see, too dark. maybe a better image to see it better.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> I've uploaded the first run of 10-11 common chassis here: http://www.swiftech.com/h220.aspx
> In most cases you can actually install the radiators and/or fans in different positions.
> 
> There is also a first review that's been posted on XCPUS: http://www.xcpus.com/reviews/corsair-h100i-vs-the-swiftech-h220


Awesome work on compatibility, big praise with images done.


----------



## dairyproduce

That looks great stephen!

One question: I notice in the R4 case photo, that the fitting between the mobo and the fans seem to be quite tight. Is anything on the mobo actually covered by the fan? Can we get close-ups of that section?

Thanks!


----------



## Frozenoblivion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> I've uploaded the first run of 10-11 common chassis here: http://www.swiftech.com/h220.aspx
> In most cases you can actually install the radiators and/or fans in different positions.
> 
> There is also a first review that's been posted on XCPUS: http://www.xcpus.com/reviews/corsair-h100i-vs-the-swiftech-h220


Woah.
H220 is amazing. Better pump, repairable, expandable.
SOLD!!!


----------



## Turfy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> hard to see, too dark. maybe a better image to see it better.


http://i.imgur.com/KHtpQGS.jpg

Is that better? it's the best I can do :/


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dairyproduce*
> 
> That looks great stephen!
> 
> One question: I notice in the R4 case photo, that the fitting between the mobo and the fans seem to be quite tight. Is anything on the mobo actually covered by the fan? Can we get close-ups of that section?
> 
> Thanks!


I Second this, if you have close-ups, or better yet a shot with the Chasis laying on its back(right panel facing down) would be great for those of us worried about VRM heatsink clearance.

Something like this would be great.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gallien*
> 
> I ask, because I want to start off in watercooling with the 360 version of this cooler. From there expand to a 480 + the 360 in the Corsair 900D and watercool 2x GPUs with it. (Tax returns) LOL


What is the radiator size in the 360? If its 360mm what case ion the world will be big enough to hold it??


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gallien*
> 
> I ask, because I want to start off in watercooling with the 360 version of this cooler. From there expand to a 480 + the 360 in the Corsair 900D and watercool 2x GPUs with it. (Tax returns) LOL


What is the radiator size in the 360? Is it one 240mm radiator plus an additional 120mm radiator??? That would work for me in my Rosewill Blackhawk Ultra case.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dairyproduce*
> 
> That looks great stephen!
> 
> One question: I notice in the R4 case photo, that the fitting between the mobo and the fans seem to be quite tight. Is anything on the mobo actually covered by the fan? Can we get close-ups of that section?
> 
> Thanks!


the VR heatsink on this GB board is actually 27 mm tall (measured from the top of the PCB to the top of the heatsink) and there is still 2-3 mm of gap beween the kit and the heatsink.

we would have to reinstall the kit in the case to take more pictures.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> the VR heatsink on this GB board is actually 27 mm tall (measured from the top of the PCB to the top of the heatsink) and there is still 2-3 mm of gap beween the kit and the heatsink.
> 
> we would have to reinstall the kit in the case to take more pictures.


Thanks for the info, Did you mount it in the R4 with the fillport facing down because that was the only way? or could be mounted with it facing up and rad below the fans?


----------



## Frozenoblivion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> What is the radiator size in the 360? Is it one 240mm radiator plus an additional 120mm radiator??? That would work for me in my Rosewill Blackhawk Ultra case.


No it's going to be a 3x120mm.
Get the H220 (240mm version), and add a 120mm rad to it.
Problem solved =3


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> Thanks for the info, Did you mount it in the R4 with the fillport facing down because that was the only way? or could be mounted with it facing up and rad below the fans?


in the R4 yes it's the only way without some modification


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> in the R4 yes it's the only way without some modification


Thanks, unfortunately I found out that my Motherboard's VRM heatsink is at least 38mm(1.5") tall so H220 won't clear the heatsink in my R4 case. I'll probably wait till H320 come out and get it along with a new case.


----------



## twitchyzero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> the VR heatsink on this GB board is actually 27 mm tall (measured from the top of the PCB to the top of the heatsink) and there is still 2-3 mm of gap beween the kit and the heatsink.
> 
> we would have to reinstall the kit in the case to take more pictures.


Thanks...good to know 500R is compatible

I'll be putting in a new PSU tomorrow so I'll measure to see if my Gigabyte UD5H is compatible. So I'm just measuring the space between top of mobo to top of VRM heatsink? Are fan connectors/capacitators not a concern at all?


----------



## navit

Well looks like me and my 600t with a Z77 sabertooth mobo will be out based on the pic I see.I can see the armor on this mobo to be all in the way of the rad. I will have to wait and see if someone with that board and case makes it fit.....Bummer


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navit*
> 
> Well looks like me and my 600t with a Z77 sabertooth mobo will be out based on the pic I see.I can see the armor on this mobo to be all in the way of the rad. I will have to wait and see if someone with that board and case makes it fit.....Bummer


Only one i can find for a dual rad is the H100, fans mounted on top of case with Z77 sabertooth.
I took off my shield, as it really did very little for it. Still looks good with out it and might give you more room to work with.
Maybe this might help.


----------



## navit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Only one i can find for a dual rad is the H100, fans mounted on top of case with Z77 sabertooth.
> I took off my shield, as it really did very little for it. Still looks good with out it and might give you more room to work with.
> Maybe this might help.


I did think about that, the removal of the armor. Thanks for the pic.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navit*
> 
> Well looks like me and my 600t with a Z77 sabertooth mobo will be out based on the pic I see.I can see the armor on this mobo to be all in the way of the rad. I will have to wait and see if someone with that board and case makes it fit.....Bummer


how about with the reservoir to the front - ie with the tubes to the rear. The fittings are pretty far from the edge of the radiator. If you don't know what I am talking about. Take a look at the 500R picture, we installed the kit with either orientation to show that both are possible with these 2 chassis.


----------



## $ilent

Any idea on UK price and release date Stephen?


----------



## navit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> how about with the reservoir to the front - ie with the tubes to the rear. The fittings are pretty far from the edge of the radiator. If you don't know what I am talking about. Take a look at the 500R picture, we installed the kit with either orientation to show that both are possible with these 2 chassis.


Cool I will do that , thanks


----------



## MotO

What about fitting in the top of a bitfenix prodigy?


----------



## nagle3092

God I can't wait for this.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MotO*
> 
> What about fitting in the top of a bitfenix prodigy?


You can fit a dual ran in there.


----------



## Vowels

Question for Stephen, will the H220 be available for sale at Canadian retailers like NCIX or will sales in NA be limited to US watercooling retail companies like FrozenCPU? I want to get this but if I can only get this from a US retailer, the extra cost of shipping it to Canada will turn this from an instant buy into more of a consideration


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vowels*
> 
> Question for Stephen, will the H220 be available for sale at Canadian retailers like NCIX or will sales in NA be limited to US watercooling retail companies like FrozenCPU? I want to get this but if I can only get this from a US retailer, the extra cost of shipping it to Canada will turn this from an instant buy into more of a consideration


NCIX will carry it and even probably do pre-orders.


----------



## dairyproduce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> the VR heatsink on this GB board is actually 27 mm tall (measured from the top of the PCB to the top of the heatsink) and there is still 2-3 mm of gap beween the kit and the heatsink.
> 
> we would have to reinstall the kit in the case to take more pictures.


Stephen, which GB board did you use? I have the z77x-ud3h.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dairyproduce*
> 
> Stephen, which GB board did you use? I have the z77x-ud3h.


UD3H have the same VRM Heatsink height(27mm)

http://techreport.com/review/22755/z77-motherboards-from-asus-gigabyte-and-msi/3


----------



## dairyproduce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> UD3H have the same VRM Heatsink height(27mm)
> 
> http://techreport.com/review/22755/z77-motherboards-from-asus-gigabyte-and-msi/3


Same as stephen's you mean? Or your motherboard (ud5h?)







?


----------



## Aiid0z

Will it fit in the 500r with the fill port facing up or does it have to be facing down? Also, will it fit with the tubing to the rear and/or the front?

Thanks.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aiid0z*
> 
> Will it fit in the 500r with the fill port facing up or does it have to be facing down? Also, will it fit with the tubing to the rear and/or the front?
> 
> Thanks.


If you looked at the post saying which one will fit, it tells you.
Now that all depends on what mobo you use. So you will need to measure yourself.
http://www.swiftech.com/h220.aspx


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aiid0z*
> 
> Will it fit in the 500r with the fill port facing up or does it have to be facing down? Also, will it fit with the tubing to the rear and/or the front?
> 
> Thanks.


facing down only - tubes to the front or rear.


----------



## Aiid0z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> facing down only - tubes to the front or rear.


Thanks for the reply. Although would I be able to mount it with res facing up if i did some modding to the gap for the tubes at the back, and have the tubes at the front? The main reason is because I would like to be able to add to the loop and filling it would be easier this way.

Thanks.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aiid0z*
> 
> Thanks for the reply. Although would I be able to mount it with res facing up if i did some modding to the gap for the tubes at the back, and have the tubes at the front? The main reason is because I would like to be able to add to the loop and filling it would be easier this way.
> 
> Thanks.


Not possible without big modding done. if you look at the diagram for H220. You either need to mount the rad directly under the top or have fans installed to mount as it is right now, fill port up. It is not the tubes that is the issues, it is the reservoir.
No room and mobo will block it.


----------



## Aiid0z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Not possible without big modding done. if you look at the diagram for H220. You either need to mount the rad directly under the top or have fans installed to mount as it is right now, fill port up. It is not the tubes that is the issues, it is the reservoir.
> No room and mobo will block it.


Yeah what i'm trying to say is, will it be possible to cut out a bit more of the already cut out "tubing holes" at the back (shown here):

http://www.servethehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Carbide-500R-Open-Top-Fan-Mounts.jpg

so that the "L" shaped res will stick up through there ( rad under case top ) and the fans on top of the case.

I hope i have made my self a little clearer. Sorry for all the questions, just want to make sure it will fit perfectly









Thanks again.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aiid0z*
> 
> Yeah what i'm trying to say is, will it be possible to cut out a bit more of the already cut out "tubing holes" at the back (shown here):
> 
> http://www.servethehome.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Carbide-500R-Open-Top-Fan-Mounts.jpg
> 
> so that the "L" shaped res will stick up through there ( rad under case top ) and the fans on top of the case.
> 
> I hope i have made my self a little clearer. Sorry for all the questions, just want to make sure it will fit perfectly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks again.


A that part. Yes if you can cut to make the reservoir fit through, then you can mount the fan on top and maybe under the rad. For a nice Push/Pull.


----------



## Aiid0z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> A that part. Yes if you can cut to make the reservoir fit through, then you can mount the fan on top and maybe under the rad. For a nice Push/Pull.


Awesome! Thanks for your help


----------



## navit

Nice review








I did notice in a couple of the pics, and please correct me if am wrong, that the hose and fittings coming off the pump might make it hard for users to have all four dims filled up for the ram.


----------



## nagle3092

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navit*
> 
> Nice review
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did notice in a couple of the pics, and please correct me if am wrong, that the hose and fittings coming off the pump might make it hard for users to have all four dims filled up for the ram.



Looks like it will be close but the entire slot is clear so it should be fine.


----------



## navit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nagle3092*
> 
> 
> Looks like it will be close but the entire slot is clear so it should be fine.


Yea your probably right


----------



## ez12a

Interesting results..the h100i beats the TT Extreme with its thicker radiator?

this the only demo/review that has come out so far with the h100i coming close to the h220. The other review shows the H220 beating the H100i consistently by at least 5C along with their live demos at CES. Could be the difference between TIMs and other factors I suppose.

I'm assuming he disassembled the pump after he tested the device.

also...whats up with 100% fan speed being a degree hotter on some of the coolers...?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> Interesting results..the h100i beats the TT Extreme with its thicker radiator?
> 
> this the only demo/review that has come out so far with the h100i coming close to the h220. The other review shows the H220 beating the H100i consistently by at least 5C along with their live demos at CES. Could be the difference between TIMs and other factors I suppose.
> 
> I'm assuming he disassembled the pump after he tested the device.


The reviewer didn't directly test the h220 to the h100i, he had someone else test the other models with a similar a cpu that was volted very similar to. At least, from the skimming of the article that I did I think that is what they did. I'm sure they tried to get conditions exactly the same, but that could easily skew results a few degrees in either direction.


----------



## ez12a

True. boo to that initial review.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> The reviewer didn't directly test the h220 to the h100i, he had someone else test the other models with a similar a cpu that was volted very similar to. At least, from the skimming of the article that I did I think that is what they did. I'm sure they tried to get conditions exactly the same, but that could easily skew results a few degrees in either direction.


That review is just wrong. Different ambient temps and maybe different cases too. Test is not valid in anyway and should not be. He mention aluminum fins, which is copper.


----------



## dartuil

Sorry misunderstood here









EDIT : Too bad my D14 cant follow the h220 not woth the money according this review waiting for another complete review.


----------



## Fonne

Quote:


> Conclusion
> 
> *Simply put, what we have here is a game changer in the all-in-one water cooling segment*. No longer are we throttled by the regurgitation of re-badged Asetek/CoolIT units. The upgrade path the H220 offers is something that should pique the interest of those looking to enter the water cooling world for the first time and those who are more seasoned. If you want to add an additional radiator to your loop or put your video card(s) under water, rest assured the H220 pump can handle the task. We actually saw this scenario working extremely well during our visit with Swiftech at this year's CES show.
> 
> *The unit simply screams quality, top to bottom*. I love the fact Swiftech implemented a copper block design akin to their most prominent stand alone CPU water blocks. They also managed to make the H220 acoustically pleasing, especially when you control both the fans and pump via PWM. Having the ability to drain and refill the system is another added bonus, especially for those of you who are diligent about cleaning or have a favorite liquid you like to use. Another thing I really like is the increased inside diameter tubing size when compared to most other AIO units (3/8″ vs 1/4″). And, of course, if you don't like the color of the stock tubing or need to expand it, it's easily replaced. The list of innovations just goes on and on!
> 
> With a suggested retail price of $139.99 (according to Swiftech), the H220 is an absolute bargain. Unfortunately, for those of you chomping at the bit to grab one of these, you have to wait a little longer as it's scheduled for a late February 2013 release.
> 
> *Innovation, great performance, expandability, acoustically pleasing, and affordable.* Most definitely, Overclockers approved!


Amazing job Swiftech


----------



## Ragsters

That review sucked. I'm sorry.


----------



## Pogi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ragsters*
> 
> That review sucked. I'm sorry.


The Overclockers.com review? How so?


----------



## Legonut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> please let rad be no more thicker than 30mm...I need it to fit in my case.
> 
> Any reason why they went with 220mm instead of the popular 240mm and now 280mm?


It's actually a 240mm rad. Swiftech has a weird naming plan. It's a X20 because of the 120mm fans and it's a 2XX because it has two of them.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Legonut*
> 
> It's actually a 240mm rad. Swiftech has a weird naming plan. It's a X20 because of the 120mm fans and it's a 2XX because it has two of them.


it's not that weird








At least it wasn't 12 years ago until everyone else came in with a new naming plan haha


----------



## SoulClap

I'm sold on this thing. I hope I'll be able to mount it to the front while still keeping the bottom hard drive bay (the bay can be moved further back in the case).


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> it's not that weird
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At least it wasn't 12 years ago until everyone else came in with a new naming plan haha


its one of those things you have to learn once in order to understand the naming scheme. I think of it similar to how Nvidia/AMD's gpus naming schemes and how one cannot assume a larger number means better, but to really understand what each number in the name stands for.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoulClap*
> 
> I'm sold on this thing. I hope I'll be able to mount it to the front while still keeping the bottom hard drive bay (the bay can be moved further back in the case).


which case do you have or plan on using?


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vowels*
> 
> Question for Stephen, will the H220 be available for sale at Canadian retailers like NCIX or will sales in NA be limited to US watercooling retail companies like FrozenCPU? I want to get this but if I can only get this from a US retailer, the extra cost of shipping it to Canada will turn this from an instant buy into more of a consideration


It's on NCIX now.









http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=79583&vpn=H220&manufacture=Swiftech


----------



## TheGovernment

Beauty, I just pre-ordered mine!


----------



## Dizz22r

I keep throwing money at the screen for the H320,but nothing happens


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheGovernment*
> 
> Beauty, I just pre-ordered mine!


I have to see more reviews on this thing before I press the button on it!


----------



## MotO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pogi*
> 
> The Overclockers.com review? How so?


Because they used different systems with different CPUs. The other review showed it beating the Corsair pretty handily and in the OCers one it is the same. I'll wait for independent private reviews.


----------



## TheGovernment

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> I have to see more reviews on this thing before I press the button on it!


I hear ya but for $150, I'll throw it in the garbage if i don't like it, just like I did with my H100 haha


----------



## Pogi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MotO*
> 
> Because they used different systems with different CPUs. The other review showed it beating the Corsair pretty handily and in the OCers one it is the same. I'll wait for independent private reviews.


Oh, I see. But I'm not sure why the other review (XCPUS.com) is worth mentioning if this review sucked. They used different systems, cases, and both systems were located in different parts of the country.


----------



## cashback

Anyone know if this will fit in a 650D?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Both reviews was bad and should not even looked at.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cashback*
> 
> Anyone know if this will fit in a 650D?


Yes it will fit, just make sure your mobo wont block anything.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheGovernment*
> 
> I hear ya but for $150, I'll throw it in the garbage if i don't like it, just like I did with my H100 haha


$150 is still good, just $10 more over US price. Will be better than H100, much quieter too, even at 100%.


----------



## cashback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Yes it will fit, just make sure your mobo wont block anything..


Thanks going to pre-order now.


----------



## dartuil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Both reviews was bad and should not even looked at.


I agree if u listen to them my D14 is at the same level than a high end AIO andwhen I look at the spec I cant believe this :








If I buy a H220 I wait 10-15°C diffrence not 2-6








Wait for more reviews


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pogi*
> 
> Oh, I see. But I'm not sure why the other review (XCPUS.com) is worth mentioning if this review sucked. They used different systems, cases, and both systems were located in different parts of the country.


Which is why he's waiting for independent reviewers that do it properly.

To be honest, I'm really not worried about performance of it all, Swiftech is a damn solid company, and I don't see how the radiator doesn't at least perform on par with the other AIO units. With the ability to easily add another rad and a gpu block and have a pretty damn decent loop going, I think it is well worth its value. I'm basically waiting for reviews to make sure nothing unexpected goes wrong with the first batch while I gather my money.

Also, I'm pretty sure I can make the h220 fit in my 300r with very minor modding, fans and all. Just a little tweaking to the top grill and it should fit(very snugly), and if I do it properly it will be almost unnoticeable on the outside of the case, hopefully at least!


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pogi*
> 
> Oh, I see. But I'm not sure why the other review (XCPUS.com) is worth mentioning if this review sucked. They used different systems, cases, and both systems were located in different parts of the country.


Both reviews are not highly regarded and should not be used as reference since improper testing was done. I guess it was just posted here since they were the first few reviews out. For me the CES test is the de facto standard since all were tested in the same conditions, same hardware, etc.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dartuil*
> 
> I agree if u listen to them my D14 is at the same level than a high end AIO andwhen I look at the spec I cant believe this :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If I buy a H220 I wait 10-15°C diffrence not 2-6
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wait for more reviews


At equivalent fan speed you would probably need to go to a LC loop based on a triple fan radiator to see 10-15C difference with large and good HSF (like the D14) and/or a pretty high overclock and high voltage to increase the heat. There are some great HSF out there but they're big and heavy - and as a thermal engineer that's pretty much the only negative aspects I can find about these products: they're good thermally - almost as good as Liquid Cooling done right. Their prices aren't that much better than AIO units which is another reason why easy-to-use LC units have been catching up in terms of popularity.

Keep in mind also that you won't see the same type of difference between Cooler A and Cooler B when tested on different type of CPU's. LGA2011 CPU's throws a lot of heat on a large die. Sandy Bridge generates substantially less heat but on a much smaller die.. Ivy Bridge, similar die size but even less heat and an internal TIM that is substantially less efficient (main reasons why IB CPU's are so hot considering their low TDP). So, just on the paper there are many many reasons to see differences between each coolers depending on what they're being tested on but when on top of that you add to the fact Coolers A, B or C have to be as good as possible on all of these different CPU's... that's when you want to make sure you get a cooler that has been designed to offer good contact with all types of CPU's. That's what we've been trying to do (working very hard on mechanical contact) for the past 6-7 years (Since our very first Apogee WB actually).


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Occers used Arctic Silver Ceramique 2, which is good. No idea if they even bothered doing thermal cycle for about 24-30 hrs before doing any tests to get the proper temps.
The D14 is a very good heatsink, you have to factor ambient temps to cooling. H220 gives you options, while other AIO you are stuck. Another good point is the increased interior airflow, without being blocked by large heatsink.
This is what makes it appealing to everyone.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> At equivalent fan speed you would probably need to go to a LC loop based on a triple fan radiator to see 10-15C difference with large and good HSF (like the D14) and/or a pretty high overclock and high voltage to increase the heat. There are some great HSF out there but they're big and heavy - and as a thermal engineer that's pretty much the only negative aspects I can find about these products: they're good thermally - almost as good as Liquid Cooling done right. Their prices aren't that much better than AIO units which is another reason why easy-to-use LC units have been catching up in terms of popularity.
> 
> Keep in mind also that you won't see the same type of difference between Cooler A and Cooler B when tested on different type of CPU's. LGA2011 CPU's throws a lot of heat on a large die. Sandy Bridge generates substantially less heat but on a much smaller die.. Ivy Bridge, similar die size but even less heat and an internal TIM that is substantially less efficient (main reasons why IB CPU's are so hot considering their low TDP). So, just on the paper there are many many reasons to see differences between each coolers depending on what they're being tested on but when on top of that you add to the fact Coolers A, B or C have to be as good as possible on all of these different CPU's... that's when you want to make sure you get a cooler that has been designed to offer good contact with all types of CPU's. That's what we've been trying to do (working very hard on mechanical contact) for the past 6-7 years (Since our very first Apogee WB actually).


QFT! The review at ocf was good but a 3770k won't show the true potential of this unit, you'd need a hotter cpu like an fx8150/8350 or a 3930k oced. The heat they radiate is higher than a 3770k despite the crappy die/ihs thermal interface and high degree numbers in C.


----------



## Pogi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Which is why he's waiting for independent reviewers that do it properly.:


I didn't ask why he was waiting. Mentioning the other review would only serve to obfuscate his point since that review is also improper.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> For me the CES test is the de facto standard since all were tested in the same conditions, same hardware, etc.


Then how was the OC.com test any different from the CES test?


----------



## M3TAl

I believe pureoverclock is in the middle of their review right now. They're testing Asetek 570LX, Corsair H100i, Enermax ECL 240, Thermaltake Water 2.0 Extreme, NZXT Kraken X60, Cooler Master Seidon 240M, and Swiftech H220. Think these will all be tested on the same chip/system too. Hope this review will be more accurate.

Edit: Testing on X79 and Z77 also...


----------



## dartuil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> At equivalent fan speed you would probably need to go to a LC loop based on a triple fan radiator to see 10-15C difference with large and good HSF (like the D14) and/or a pretty high overclock and high voltage to increase the heat. There are some great HSF out there but they're big and heavy - and as a thermal engineer that's pretty much the only negative aspects I can find about these products: they're good thermally - almost as good as Liquid Cooling done right. Their prices aren't that much better than AIO units which is another reason why easy-to-use LC units have been catching up in terms of popularity.
> 
> Keep in mind also that you won't see the same type of difference between Cooler A and Cooler B when tested on different type of CPU's. LGA2011 CPU's throws a lot of heat on a large die. Sandy Bridge generates substantially less heat but on a much smaller die.. Ivy Bridge, similar die size but even less heat and an internal TIM that is substantially less efficient (main reasons why IB CPU's are so hot considering their low TDP). So, just on the paper there are many many reasons to see differences between each coolers depending on what they're being tested on but when on top of that you add to the fact Coolers A, B or C have to be as good as possible on all of these different CPU's... that's when you want to make sure you get a cooler that has been designed to offer good contact with all types of CPU's. That's what we've been trying to do (working very hard on mechanical contact) for the past 6-7 years (Since our very first Apogee WB actually).


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Occers used Arctic Silver Ceramique 2, which is good. No idea if they even bothered doing thermal cycle for about 24-30 hrs before doing any tests to get the proper temps.
> The D14 is a very good heatsink, you have to factor ambient temps to cooling. H220 gives you options, while other AIO you are stuck. Another good point is the increased interior airflow, without being blocked by large heatsink.
> This is what makes it appealing to everyone.


you both are right to me men








my last question is : Will the WB enter on my motherboard? I have 4 memories sticks.
My asus p8z68v LE , no space issues?


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> I believe pureoverclock is in the middle of their review right now. They're testing Asetek 570LX, Corsair H100i, Enermax ECL 240, Thermaltake Water 2.0 Extreme, NZXT Kraken X60, Cooler Master Seidon 240M, and Swiftech H220. Think these will all be tested on the same chip/system too. Hope this review will be more accurate.
> 
> Edit: Testing on X79 and Z77 also...


That sounds good...eagerly waiting for it.


----------



## fatlardo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> At equivalent fan speed you would probably need to go to a LC loop based on a triple fan radiator to see 10-15C difference with large and good HSF (like the D14) and/or a pretty high overclock and high voltage to increase the heat. There are some great HSF out there but they're big and heavy - and as a thermal engineer that's pretty much the only negative aspects I can find about these products: they're good thermally - almost as good as Liquid Cooling done right. Their prices aren't that much better than AIO units which is another reason why easy-to-use LC units have been catching up in terms of popularity.
> 
> Keep in mind also that you won't see the same type of difference between Cooler A and Cooler B when tested on different type of CPU's. LGA2011 CPU's throws a lot of heat on a large die. Sandy Bridge generates substantially less heat but on a much smaller die.. Ivy Bridge, similar die size but even less heat and an internal TIM that is substantially less efficient (main reasons why IB CPU's are so hot considering their low TDP). So, just on the paper there are many many reasons to see differences between each coolers depending on what they're being tested on but when on top of that you add to the fact Coolers A, B or C have to be as good as possible on all of these different CPU's... that's when you want to make sure you get a cooler that has been designed to offer good contact with all types of CPU's. That's what we've been trying to do (working very hard on mechanical contact) for the past 6-7 years (Since our very first Apogee WB actually).


Would I get the 10-15C difference with your H2O-X20 Elite Series? Or what if I add another rad to the h220?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fatlardo*
> 
> Would I get the 10-15C difference with your H2O-X20 Elite Series? Or what if I add another rad to the h220?


You're never guarantee that temp drops in any watercooling setup. Too many variables happening.


----------



## fatlardo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> You're never guarantee that temp drops in any watercooling setup. Too many variables happening.


Hhmmmmm maybe I should rephrase, what difference in temp should I see from the H220 and the H2O-X20 Elite Series? TIA.


----------



## SoulClap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> which case do you have or plan on using?


I'll be using it in a Fractal R4.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoulClap*
> 
> I'll be using it in a Fractal R4.


It has already been shown to fit.
http://www.swiftech.com/h220.aspx
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fatlardo*
> 
> Hhmmmmm maybe I should rephrase, what difference in temp should I see from the H220 and the H2O-X20 Elite Series? TIA.


Right now, no one knows yet. It is a big cost difference between the two sets. Are you going to cooling a GPU or just CPU only. Are you planning later on to do a full rig?


----------



## fatlardo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> It has already been shown to fit.
> http://www.swiftech.com/h220.aspx
> Right now, no one knows yet. It is a big cost difference between the two sets. Are you going to cooling a GPU or just CPU only. Are you planning later on to do a full rig?


Cpu for now, and will probably do the gpu down the line.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pogi*
> 
> Then how was the OC.com test any different from the CES test?


Because they used different systems with different CPUs. The CES test used the same motherboard, CPU, etc. and in the same room with the same ambient temps. I believe they even mentioned that they use the same votage for the CPU's in the test. The two tests did not use this same principle so that's the big difference.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Frozenoblivion*
> 
> No it's going to be a 3x120mm.
> Get the H220 (240mm version), and add a 120mm rad to it.
> Problem solved =3


Thanks. I thought that would be the likely response. What case on this planet can take a 360mm radiator? It would have to be monstrously large. My case is a large full tower and doesn't have that capability.


----------



## SoulClap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> It has already been shown to fit.


Yeah, it's mounted on the top in that example. I'm going to measure tomorrow to see if there is space to front mount it while still keeping the bottom HDD bay. I'm also hoping it's not going to kill the HDD to have a bit of warm air blowing over it.


----------



## Pogi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> Because they used different systems with different CPUs. The CES test used the same motherboard, CPU, etc. and in the same room with the same ambient temps. I believe they even mentioned that they use the same votage for the CPU's in the test. The two tests did not use this same principle so that's the big difference.


D'oh! I stand corrected. That's what I get for not reading, only paying attention to the system specs, and assuming.


----------



## I.M.O.G.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> Both reviews are not highly regarded and should not be used as reference since improper testing was done. I guess it was just posted here since they were the first few reviews out. For me the CES test is the de facto standard since all were tested in the same conditions, same hardware, etc.


The conditions in the CES swiftech demo were not identical. They used the auto 4.6ghz feature on the Asus mobos. That sets vcore based off of VID. The two swiftech units had the lowest vid, thus the lowest vcore at 4.6ghz. The vid on the thermal take unit on the far right was over .1V higher than the swiftech units CPU vid. Not a big difference, however their manufacturer demo wasn't in perfect conditions. They should have manually set vcore, instead of using the auto overclock settings. I was there FYI, so this is first hand observation. Only VID was shown in the test, vcore was not displayed.

The Overclockers.com review was not under perfect conditions, as we didn't have all the units in house to test under the same testbed. However, wait for more reviews to come out, and compare our results to theirs... Time will tell, and you can quote me, our review will prove to be pretty accurate. I am partial obviously, but readily admit our review wasn't ideal - it was one of the first out though, and I stand behind the results. Still though, I urge you to look forward to other reviews, and compare.

Against the d14, temps will be pretty damn similar with the h220. High end air has always been, and will always be pretty close to AIO units... Just more noisy. And the H220 has other advantages, like being expandable to multiple components, which high end air can't do exactly.

Edit: for those who don't know, vid is set at the fab. Every chip doesn't have the same vid at stock. Different vid is set in order to accommodate varying fab conditions, and ensure every chip operates within specification. Stock vcore varies due to VID.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fatlardo*
> 
> Hhmmmmm maybe I should rephrase, what difference in temp should I see from the H220 and the H2O-X20 Elite Series? TIA.


less than 1C - i.e. hard to even evaluate considering the accuracy of the CPU DTS'.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *I.M.O.G.*
> 
> The conditions in the CES swiftech demo were not identical. They used the auto 4.6ghz feature on the Asus mobos. That sets vcore based off of VID. The two swiftech units had the lowest vid, thus the lowest vcore at 4.6ghz. The vid on the thermal take unit on the far right was over .1V higher than the swiftech units CPU vid. Not a big difference, however their manufacturer demo wasn't in perfect conditions. They should have manually set vcore, instead of using the auto overclock settings. I was there FYI, so this is first hand observation. Only VID was shown in the test, vcore was not displayed.
> 
> The Overclockers.com review was not under perfect conditions, as we didn't have all the units in house to test under the same testbed. However, wait for more reviews to come out, and compare our results to theirs... Time will tell, and you can quote me, our review will prove to be pretty accurate. I am partial obviously, but readily admit our review wasn't ideal - it was one of the first out though, and I stand behind the results. Still though, I urge you to look forward to other reviews, and compare.
> 
> Against the d14, temps will be pretty damn similar with the h220. High end air has always been, and will always be pretty close to AIO units... Just more noisy. And the H220 has other advantages, like being expandable to multiple components, which high end air can't do exactly.
> 
> Edit: for those who don't know, vid is set at the fab. Every chip doesn't have the same vid at stock. Different vid is set in order to accommodate varying fab conditions, and ensure every chip operates within specification. Stock vcore varies due to VID.


Fair enough, but what I heard in this *VIDEO* (2:38 onwards if you want to skip things) is Gabe saying the same voltage (selective hearing I guess) but completely missed out him saying pushing a button for 4.6 Ghz. I still think that should be the closest to a test (of course it would have been perfect if all chips had the same voltage running through all chips) people at OCN would say is closest to being perfect compared to the other tests so far.

I do believe the results you gave for the H220 and the other AIO units it's just that there are more variables different versus the CES test, that's why I gave that comment. I guess I should not have worded my response as bluntly and just said things with more detail (I was being lazy when I responded) so things we're more clear.

I do agree that everyone should compare all the reviews and see if they hold up to what the real world performance of the H220 will be. I guess I definitely will be waiting for *Martin's test* since it would also include testing with the same fans, the same everything in a very controlled environment which should give us a better and complete view of each AIO / CLC.


----------



## MiwaPi

Will this fit in a Fractal Design Arc Mini? I'm thinking there might be some clearance issues with my RAM.


----------



## stephenm

Gabe stated that we overclocked it simply by using the auto-tune feature of the Asus gear... which got us started as the second step of the process was to make sure the actual Vcore was the same on the 4 machines.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Gabe stated that we overclocked it simply by using the auto-tune feature of the Asus gear... which got us started as the second step of the process was to make sure the actual Vcore was the same on the 4 machines.


Thanks for the clarification stephenM, at least that puts to bed the whole story of not using the same Vcore for the 4 machines!


----------



## Pedros

One more question... sorry Steph, you're being bombarded with lots of question ... i think that only shows how eager people are for the launch of this product









So, will the H220 have any significant gains by using higher rpm fans? Or is this optimized for lower rpm? I know that, depending on the rad type, you can have significant gains by using for example a 3k rpm fan with good static pressure vs lower rpm ... but in other cases, the gains aren't really significant since the rad was design for low speed fans.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MiwaPi*
> 
> Will this fit in a Fractal Design Arc Mini? I'm thinking there might be some clearance issues with my RAM.


You can fit a 240 rad easily in there. The way the top is done, is that it is pushed closer to the side panel.
Just make sure you do your measurements before you do anything.


----------



## I.M.O.G.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> Fair enough, but what I heard in this *VIDEO* (2:38 onwards if you want to skip things) is Gabe saying the same voltage (selective hearing I guess) but completely missed out him saying pushing a button for 4.6 Ghz. I still think that should be the closest to a test (of course it would have been perfect if all chips had the same voltage running through all chips) people at OCN would say is closest to being perfect compared to the other tests so far.
> 
> I do believe the results you gave for the H220 and the other AIO units it's just that there are more variables different versus the CES test, that's why I gave that comment.


Gabe only said some things because I asked the right questions, so in that video there is likely missing info because some things just weren't asked. I have watched live manufacturer demos for the past four years - I saw bulldozer before it launched in Austin, Radeon before it launched in LA, and most all the Ivy Bridge stuff before it was released. I am no journalist, just an enthusiast and this is my hobby, but I have watched journalists around me and the good ones ask the right questions. So when they said everything was running at the same settings, naturally I asked how they made the settings knowing that the auto oc settings were based off VID and would introduce minor differences. I didn't comment further, because it was minor, and a manufacturer demo is just that. It gives you an idea about how it works, but they aren't going to run a demo if they don't look good in it. Basically there are a lot of dog and pony shows so you become a bit jaded having seen enough of them and recognizing how common BS is.

That said, swiftech is a rare bird. Like Overclockers.com, and few others like hardocp and anandtech, they have been around for over a decade. We started in this enthusiast thing in 1998. Their demo was well setup, it gives a fair impression of how their equipment works, and generally they are more trustworthy of a company than some others who will feed a lot more marketing garbage. Gabe is one of us though.

Anyways... Your comment was a good one. You should always read with a healthy bit of skepticism. The OCF review wasn't perfect, but it does reflect closely to how this thing will perform. It is also independent, not from the manufacturer. The writer is an enthusiast and a member of the community. Not paid, not working in an office or a lab... Just a guy like us, who has done a lot of reviews over the years as a hobby. All the OC reviews are enthusiast, not professional.

By the way, is martin still doing testing? It was my understanding that he had unretired, but then I thought he went back into taking a break. His work and skinnees is the only water cooling setups and testing that really stands out. (Read link now, guess he's in action. Cool)


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *I.M.O.G.*
> 
> By the way, is martin still doing testing? It was my understanding that he had unretired, but then I thought he went back into taking a break. His work and skinnees is the only water cooling setups and testing that really stands out. (Read link now, guess he's in action. Cool)


Got tired of being retired and got the itch!


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pedros*
> 
> One more question... sorry Steph, you're being bombarded with lots of question ... i think that only shows how eager people are for the launch of this product
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, will the H220 have any significant gains by using higher rpm fans? Or is this optimized for lower rpm? I know that, depending on the rad type, you can have significant gains by using for example a 3k rpm fan with good static pressure vs lower rpm ... but in other cases, the gains aren't really significant since the rad was design for low speed fans.


The radiator's core is that of a QP series in other words the sweat spot is around 1000-1500 RPM. You will see a gain by using higher CFM fans that's for sure - not as a big as if we used a XP's core. But the idea was to offer a quiet solution, with fans running pretty much all the time around 1000 RPM we went with the QP (12-14 FPI).


----------



## Sickened1

Can't wait for this! Grabbing a SilverStone Raven RV03 to go with it. Along with a few other goodies!


----------



## Roadkill95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sickened1*
> 
> Can't wait for this! Grabbing a SilverStone Raven RV03 to go with it. Along with a few other goodies!


Meh Silverstone







bad case for watercooling


----------



## dartuil

I want this in sale get the release date ,sooner please end february too far away for me -_-
Cant wait to put my 7950 and 2600K under water


----------



## Tom Thumb

I'm not convinced this will fit in a 600t with an ASUS X79 pro. The cpu power connector is right at the top of the board. I currently have 2 120mm fans installed in the top, and the one fan is about 1mm away from the connector. The fans are 25mm thick, and the rad is 29mm thick. I'm thinking it's a no go.








You have to take more than just case compatibility in to account. The motherboard has to be compatible as well!


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> I'm not convinced this will fit in a 600t with an ASUS X79 pro. The cpu power connector is right at the top of the board. I currently have 2 120mm fans installed in the top, and the one fan is about 1mm away from the connector. The fans are 25mm thick, and the rad is 29mm thick. I'm thinking it's a no go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have to take more than just case compatibility in to account. The motherboard has to be compatible as well!


you can have the reservoir to the front or fittings/tubes to the rear. They should clear the 8-PIN. Both 500R/600T can have the rad installed with the reservoir to the rear or to the front.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

stephenm got a good question for you.
I'll be getting the new Fractal Arc Midi R2. The case has room to mount the rad in the front in a vertical position.
What would be the preferred direction of the reservoir top or bottom?
http://www.fractal-design.com/?view=product&category=2&prod=113
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> I'm not convinced this will fit in a 600t with an ASUS X79 pro. The cpu power connector is right at the top of the board. I currently have 2 120mm fans installed in the top, and the one fan is about 1mm away from the connector. The fans are 25mm thick, and the rad is 29mm thick. I'm thinking it's a no go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have to take more than just case compatibility in to account. The motherboard has to be compatible as well!


It should fit the 600T. The fans you mounted can be place above the case. it do not needs to be inside the case. The rad fill port facing down.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> stephenm got a good question for you.
> I'll be getting the new Fractal Arc Midi R2. The case has room to mount the rad in the front in a vertical position.
> What would be the preferred direction of the reservoir top or bottom?
> http://www.fractal-design.com/?view=product&category=2&prod=113
> It should fit the 600T. The fans you mounted can be place above the case. it do not needs to be inside the case. The rad fill port facing down.


both orientations will work, reservoir to the top would be better though


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

In what you say, I would need to get new tubing to be long enough to reach CPU.
Have to wait till the case is here.


----------



## twitchyzero

just measured the 500R with the UD5H mobo
should fit in just fine


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> In what you say, I would need to get new tubing to be long enough to reach CPU.
> Have to wait till the case is here.


I am not sure either how big that case really is - tubes are pretty long (~ 420 mm) but hard to say if they will be long enough for you


----------



## Tom Thumb

When it comes to installing these units in cases such as the 600t where you must mount the fans and radiator on opposite sides of the case. (radiator inside, fans outside) There must be some kind of a performance hit because of the gap created between the radiator and the fans. Wonder home much of a difference there is temperature wise?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> When it comes to installing these units in cases such as the 600t where you must mount the fans and radiator on opposite sides of the case. (radiator inside, fans outside) There must be some kind of a performance hit because of the gap created between the radiator and the fans. Wonder home much of a difference there is temperature wise?


Probably less of an effect than the time of meshing the case itself has. If you really wanted to find out you could mount a radiator on a case that can fit the fans on the inside, than mount them outside just to test.


----------



## Karnoffel

Will this cooler fit inside a Corsair C70?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Karnoffel*
> 
> Will this cooler fit inside a Corsair C70?


Yes it will fit in a C70.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MiwaPi*
> 
> Will this fit in a Fractal Design Arc Mini? I'm thinking there might be some clearance issues with my RAM.


It will fit Arc Mini. Just measure everything.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> When it comes to installing these units in cases such as the 600t where you must mount the fans and radiator on opposite sides of the case. (radiator inside, fans outside) There must be some kind of a performance hit because of the gap created between the radiator and the fans. Wonder home much of a difference there is temperature wise?


Whether on top or under the top panel, there will be a mesh no matter what so it shouldn't impact performance. In the case of the 600T there is no mesh, the top panel material is about 1.5mm which adds a little more to the shroud already built-in the radiator and the radiator performance can only benefit from this..


----------



## Dizz22r

Just Curious! what is the actual Flow rate of the pump? I read somewhere about 1gpm which equates to roughly 227lph if I am not mistaken. Is that correct? Is that at max 3k rpm?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> Just Curious! what is the actual Flow rate of the pump? I read somewhere about 1gpm which equates to roughly 227lph if I am not mistaken. Is that correct? Is that at max 3k rpm?


Yes, 1 gpm is the max at 3K RPM. Though it should be noted, if I'm not mistaken, that the MCP35X has the same flow rate at 3K RPM.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Whether on top or under the top panel, there will be a mesh no matter what so it shouldn't impact performance. In the case of the 600T there is no mesh, the top panel material is about 1.5mm which adds a little more to the shroud already built-in the radiator and the radiator performance can only benefit from this..


I'm terribly sorry, but I have no idea what your taking about, and I own this case!


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Yes, 1 gpm is the max at 3K RPM. Though it should be noted, if I'm not mistaken, that the MCP35X has the same flow rate at 3K RPM.


The MCP35X is rated at roughly at 1100LPH at 4500k. If you convert it!!
http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11740/ex-pmp-109/

Its amazing what an extra 1500RPM does to a pump!

227-1100 is a huge gap!


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> The MCP35X is rated at roughly at 1100LPH at 4500k. If you convert it!!
> http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11740/ex-pmp-109/
> 
> Its amazing what an extra 1500RPM does to a pump!
> 
> 227-1100 is a huge gap!


You do it wrong. The only way to know the flow you will have on a loop is to cross the pressure-drop chart from the loop to the Q/P chart of the pump. So, you will never ever see those 1100 lph, probably not even if you submerged the pump into a pool, just as you would only see the max head pressure when there was basically no water running through the loop.

Yup, thats how it works, and thus why max head and max flow is IRRELEVANT for all practical purposes.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Yes, 1 gpm is the max at 3K RPM. Though it should be noted, if I'm not mistaken, that the MCP35X has the same flow rate at 3K RPM.


that will depend on the pressure drop of the loop. Its not something that correlates, aka 2k rpm = 0.x gpm, it doesn't work like that.

---

When will the product launch commercially?


----------



## twitchyzero

Does Swiftech have presence in WA state?

I'd like to avoid sales tax and Newegg won't take my canadian credentials
I'm not buying from NCIX's inflated price.


----------



## os2wiz

Will it fit in my Rosewill Blackhawk Ultra Full-toer gaming case? Right now I have a Corsair H100 installed in the top of the case.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> Does Swiftech have presence in WA state?
> 
> I'd like to avoid sales tax and Newegg won't take my canadian credentials
> I'm not buying from NCIX's inflated price.


NCIX price is not inflated. $149.99 is the correct price in Canada. US is $139.99
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Will it fit in my Rosewill Blackhawk Ultra Full-toer gaming case? Right now I have a Corsair H100 installed in the top of the case.


You have the H100 already. Why would you think the H220 would not fit?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> Just Curious! what is the actual Flow rate of the pump? I read somewhere about 1gpm which equates to roughly 227lph if I am not mistaken. Is that correct? Is that at max 3k rpm?


"actual" can only refer to the system flow rate - the pump itself has pressure and flow characteristics that you need to cross with the pressure drop of a system to define the system flow rate.
The actual flow rate of the H220 system (entire loop - and not the pump's max discharge...) is about 1gpm.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> The MCP35X is rated at roughly at 1100LPH at 4500k. If you convert it!!
> http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11740/ex-pmp-109/
> 
> Its amazing what an extra 1500RPM does to a pump!
> 
> 227-1100 is a huge gap!


see above


----------



## JackieTran

I'm pretty sure swiftech would have a detailed report of the H220's, why can't we just see it ?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> I'm pretty sure swiftech would have a detailed report of the H220's, why can't we just see it ?


I have test data that I need to put into charts for the product page


----------



## stephenm

I was asked in PM to post some pictures of the CM Trooper build we had at CES.


























I've got 2 more chassis we tested for compatibility, I will post those soon too


----------



## dartuil

Hello ua re the guy in the videos talking about the H220? stephenm


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> I was asked in PM to post some pictures of the CM Trooper build we had at CES.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got 2 more chassis we tested for compatibility, I will post those soon too


Still haven't gotten a reply from you whether the H220 will fit in my Rosewill Blackhawk Ultra full-tower gaming case? Anxiously awaiting an answer.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Will it fit in my Rosewill Blackhawk Ultra Full-toer gaming case? Right now I have a Corsair H100 installed in the top of the case.


If you check out the swiftech website the mechanical drawing is posted there for reference.

Comparing that with the specification of the H100, it is about 2mm thicker with fans. It's also 269mm or 26.9cm long. Mounting holes are the same so you should be good with that.

Now you just need to see if the dimensions will fit in your case by measuring it out.


----------



## M3TAl

Stephen can't do everything for everyone







. Sometimes you just have to help yourself.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dartuil*
> 
> Hello ua re the guy in the videos talking about the H220? stephenm


I was there during the event but no it wasn't me on the videos


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> If you check out the swiftech website the mechanical drawing is posted there for reference.
> 
> Comparing that with the specification of the H100, it is about 2mm thicker with fans. It's also 269mm or 26.9cm long. Mounting holes are the same so you should be good with that.
> 
> Now you just need to see if the dimensions will fit in your case by measuring it out.


Which is longer the H220 or my Corsair H100?? I have no room for a longer unit than my Corsair it has no extra tolerance.in the case. The information you gave does not help me.


----------



## twitchyzero

go to the swiftech site...it has the dimensions....
then go google Cosair h100i dimensions...then compare....


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> NCIX price is not inflated. $149.99 is the correct price in Canada. US is $139.99
> You have the H100 already. Why would you think the H220 would not fit?


The length of the h100 versus the length of the H220 is the issue. If the H220 is any longer than the H100 I will not have room for it. I hope that answers your inquiring mind.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> The length of the h100 versus the length of the H220 is the issue. If the H220 is any longer than the H100 I will not have room for it. I hope that answers your inquiring mind.


Why wont you have room for it? Rosewill Black Hawk Ultra has room for 3x 120mm fan on top. It is not a small case. Including to easily run push/pull.


----------



## Snuckie7

Dang this cooler is a beast. Sorry if this has been asked, but will Swiftech release a version with a 120mm/140mm rad?


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> Stephen can't do everything for everyone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Sometimes you just have to help yourself.


Actually Stephenm has replied to other members here about the fit for their specific cases so my request is not unusual . I finally was. able to determine that the H100 is 274 mm in length, so it should fit.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Snuckie7*
> 
> Dang this cooler is a beast. Sorry if this has been asked, but will Swiftech release a version with a 120mm/140mm rad?


We are working on this
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Actually Stephenm has replied to other members here about the fit for their specific cases so my request is not unusual . I finally was. able to determine that the H100 is 274 mm in length, so it should fit.


I will give you a final answer when we are able to do an actual fit check. Actually working on getting some Rosewill products.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Actually Stephenm has replied to other members here about the fit for their specific cases so my request is not unusual . I finally was. able to determine that the H100 is 274 mm in length, so it should fit.


It will fit without problems. you have 3x 120mm on top. I fit 240 and 360 rads on top of Black Hawk Ultra with a push/pull


----------



## Swiftes

Think ill be picking one of these up for my next build, wicked bit of kit, i've had numerous full loops in the past and this looks like a lot less trouble!


----------



## JackieTran

Does this include the amd bracket? or is that sold separately?


----------



## Cyclonic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> I was asked in PM to post some pictures of the CM Trooper build we had at CES.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've got 2 more chassis we tested for compatibility, I will post those soon too


So the fans wont fit underneath in the trooper ?


----------



## msgclb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclonic*
> 
> So the fans wont fit underneath in the trooper ?


If you want fans on top in the Storm Trooper you'll need these tools.



To see why click *here*.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclonic*
> 
> So the fans wont fit underneath in the trooper ?


They'll fit underneath if you flip the rad around and point the res downward. When being used as a CLC, it won't be an issue.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> They'll fit underneath if you flip the rad around and point the res downward. When being used as a CLC, it won't be an issue.


But you would have to disassemble the kit, because you won't be able to turn those fittings (on the rad) upside down.

Still, its the same whether the fan goes push or pull... or the difference is little anyway.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> But you would have to disassemble the kit, because you won't be able to turn those fittings (on the rad) upside down.
> 
> Still, its the same whether the fan goes push or pull... or the difference is little anyway.


The fittings swivel 360*. You can turn the rad in any position no prob without disassembly.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> Does this include the amd bracket? or is that sold separately?


Of course it will.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> Does this include the amd bracket? or is that sold separately?


it is included in the kit


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyclonic*
> 
> So the fans wont fit underneath in the trooper ?


of course they would but why would you want to do that? doing it the way we did you have the reservoir upside right (preferred) and you can push cold air through the rad (preferred also).


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> The fittings swivel 360*. You can turn the rad in any position no prob without disassembly.


Wouldn't you need to bend everything to make that work? I mean, with the hosing plugged in, I have no idea the tubes will be flexible enough to allow that much torsion, if you don't want to empty the loop, that is.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> We are working on this
> I will give you a final answer when we are able to do an actual fit check. Actually working on getting some Rosewill products.


I know you are a busy guy. I appreciate your reply and will wait patiently. By the way is there any possibility some on-line venders may eventually offer the H220 below the listed msrp of $139.99 Also when you do the actual fit, if you could determine if a second 120mm radiator could fit in the case in a second location. Thanks for your courtesy.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Wouldn't you need to bend everything to make that work? I mean, with the hosing plugged in, I have no idea the tubes will be flexible enough to allow that much torsion, if you don't want to empty the loop, that is.


No, not a problem at all. The fittings swivel so that the barbs can face either direction and will not get in the way. The barbs on both ends are on swivels before the 90* turn, so the angle can face any direction needed.


----------



## JackieTran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Of course it will.


You say that but I was watching [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7ce16nA6uY] and the AMD brackets aren't included in this...


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> You say that but I was watching [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7ce16nA6uY] and the AMD brackets aren't included in this...


That is the wrong item. It is not the H220.


----------



## JackieTran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> That is the wrong item. It is not the H220.


I know, but you said 'of course' as if you were definitely sure. How could you have been so sure when they haven't supplied both brackets for their other products?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> I know, but you said 'of course' as if you were definitely sure. How could you have been so sure when they haven't supplied both brackets for their other products?


100% sure, as it has already be stated many times that they include Intel/AMD Sockets.
H220 is an AIO and make to work for everyone.
What you linked in that video is APOGEE HD Water Block.

You asked for the H220 AIO watercooling kit.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> It will fit without problems. you have 3x 120mm on top. I fit 240 and 360 rads on top of Black Hawk Ultra with a push/pull


Thanks. I will most likely need an additional 120 mm radiator to supplement the 240 mm so that I can get my CPU temps even lower. Do you think I
can manage that by replacing my rear 140 mm exhaust fan with that 120mm radiator and fan combo. Or is there room for it on the top also?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Thanks. I will most likely need an additional 120 mm radiator to supplement the 240 mm so that I can get my CPU temps even lower. Do you think I
> can manage that by replacing my rear 140 mm exhaust fan with that 120mm radiator and fan combo. Or is there room for it on the top also?


What you can do is wait till the H320 is released. 360mm rad so you can mount that on top via Push/Pull. That will help your temps.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> What you can do is wait till the H320 is released. 360mm rad so you can mount that on top via Push/Pull. That will help your temps.


Are you absolutely sure the 360mm radiator which in fact requires more space for additional chassis requirements will also fit my case? Sorry for being a pain in the butt.


----------



## DoktorCreepy

Overclockers review-http://www.overclockers.com/swiftech-h220-lcs-all-in-one-water-cooler-review

Edit-updated link.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> What you can do is wait till the H320 is released. 360mm rad so you can mount that on top via Push/Pull. That will help your temps.


----------



## Sickened1

Think this will fit at the bottom of a NZXT Switch 810 with a 360 rad on top? Im gonna find out.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Antykain*
> 
> Those are the somewhat new Swiftech Helix120 fans.. and yes, they mark a striking resemblance to the GT's.


Why would they offer leak protection? Which companies offer leak protection for your PC components? I have never heard of this.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Why would they offer leak protection? Which companies offer leak protection for your PC components? I have never heard of this.


It is part of the 5 year warranty on Corsair H series AIO Water coolers. NZXT now offer this with their X40/60 Kraken AIO units as well.


----------



## M3TAl

Antec offer leak protection as well. I'm going to assume Zalman, Thermaltake, and Cooler Master also offer leak protection for their AIO's but I've never checked so not sure.


----------



## yawa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Why would they offer leak protection? Which companies offer leak protection for your PC components? I have never heard of this.


Yeah man Corsair will pay for your components. Its the reason I'm running my H70 into the ground, and also the reason I'm considering upgrading to the sweet high end Swiftech cooling rads and pumps but haven't yet.


----------



## nagle3092

Corsair and NZXT do not offer a guarantee, its no where in the warranty. It's simply a case by case basis.


----------



## Chickenman

When it comes to warranties and guarantees you should refer to local legislation - there are overarching rules for manufacturers/retailers that they cannot contract out of (possibly different in the US whree everything is totally messed up).

Consequential damage that is foreseeable (a leaking CLC could foreseeably take out your whole PC) would have to be covered by manufacturer in NZ/Aus and possibly where you live as well.

In NZ/Aus we also have the "reasonable" clause which means that manufacturers must cover their gear for a reasonable amount of time - generally for electronics this is 5 years or so... whatever seems reasonable.


----------



## Metric

HiTechLegion - Swiftech H220 Advanced AiO Liquid CPU Cooler Review
Quote:


> *Test System:*
> System Specifications
> Processor: Intel Core i5 3570K, 3.4GHz Stock and 4.6GHz OC @ 1.34V
> Motherboard: ASUS Z77 Sabertooth
> Video Card: Gigabyte GTX 660 Ti OC
> Memory: 8GB ADATA XPG Xtreme DDR3-2133
> Case: Fractal Design Define R4
> Power Supply: EVGA SuperNova NEX 1500W
> Hard Drive: Corsair Neutron GTX 120GB/Western Digital Caviar Black 750GB
> Media: LG BluRay Combo Drive
> Operating System: Windows 7 Ultimate 64
> Thermal Paste: Noctua NT-H1
> 
> *Benchmark(s):*
> OCCT x 10 minutes for Load Temperatures


Core i5 3570K, 3.4GHz Stock









Core i5 3570K, 4.6GHz OC @ 1.34V








Quote:


> *Conclusion*
> 
> When I fired up the H220 for the first time, I was shocked by the sound of it. At absolute full fan and pump speeds, it is no louder than a top tier air cooler, and worlds quieter than any of the other AiO coolers we have tested. Using standard fan controls the H220 rolls along almost imperceptibly, which is astounding with the fans and radiator on the top of the case. My first reaction was that the H220 has very similar noise levels to the NH-D14 or PH-TC14PH at like fan speeds, which makes it a very quiet and livable cooler at any speed. I truly can't impress enough what a giant step in lowered noise levels the H220 brings to the table.
> 
> Installing the H220 was incredibly simple, and most people will be able to complete the installation in under ten minutes without a problem. The mounting kit is well made and intuitive, and the included hardware is excellent quality. Everything you need is included, even a small tube of very high quality TIM.


HiTechLegion - Swiftech H220 Liquid CPU Cooler Overview


----------



## yawa

I wish temps existed for AMD processors, but even without, HOLY CRAP at that performance. I'm excited beyond belief right now. I was looking at the more expensive 250 dollar kits they offered but if this performance is true this thing just made my must buy list. I will get this alongside my FX 8350 and sell my H70. So excited, especially at the ability to expand.

This puppy looks like it may finally make air cooling a thing of the past and the ability to add a radiator and cool a GPU is huge.

Dying to see some AMD reviews. When anyone gets this post em, I'll do the same.

I'll literally drop my plans on a bigger SSD with this tax return and upgrade just my ram and CPU for this thing. So excited.


----------



## ez12a

just makes the X60 and the upcoming h110 seem like gimmicks now.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Noisy and huge gimmicks, that won't fit most cases.


----------



## kevindd992002

Will it fit the HAF922?


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chickenman*
> 
> When it comes to warranties and guarantees you should refer to local legislation - there are overarching rules for manufacturers/retailers that they cannot contract out of (possibly different in the US whree everything is totally messed up).
> 
> Consequential damage that is foreseeable (a leaking CLC could foreseeably take out your whole PC) would have to be covered by manufacturer in NZ/Aus and possibly where you live as well.
> 
> In NZ/Aus we also have the "reasonable" clause which means that manufacturers must cover their gear for a reasonable amount of time - generally for electronics this is 5 years or so... whatever seems reasonable.


I can guarantee you in the USA where corporate-bankster dominance is complete, the such protection is NOT guaranteed by law. Another reason for communist revolution.


----------



## sherlock

So it matched the 280mm AIO in max performance but defeat it in noise/low fan performancce, nicely done Swiftech







, Can't wait for h320(and a new case for me to house it).


----------



## Phishy714

While the normal, all-in-one water cooling solutions from Corsair, Antec and Thermaltake are all well documented and already out there and don't show too much improvement over air cooling, one of the best things going for them (in my opinion) is the advertised maintenance-free design.

With the H80 or Khueler 620, you never have to drain the loop and clean it out. For someone like me that loves the idea of water cooling, but dreads the thought of having to drain the entire system every time you want to change something or having to drain it a couple times a year and clean it completely, the H80 and 620 are very appealing. Does Swiftech advertise no-maintenance on this loop at all? What if you add a couple of GPU blocks? If you were to add the GPU blocks, would you have to also add in a reservoir?


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> While the normal, all-in-one water cooling solutions from Corsair, Antec and Thermaltake are all well documented and already out there and don't show too much improvement over air cooling, one of the best things going for them (in my opinion) is the advertised maintenance-free design.
> 
> With the H80 or Khueler 620, you never have to drain the loop and clean it out. For someone like me that loves the idea of water cooling, but dreads the thought of having to drain the entire system every time you want to change something or having to drain it a couple times a year and clean it completely, the H80 and 620 are very appealing. Does Swiftech advertise no-maintenance on this loop at all? What if you add a couple of GPU blocks? If you were to add the GPU blocks, would you have to also add in a reservoir?


If you are just using this as AIO then they did advertise no maintenance for the 3GPU year warranty period. Swiftech demoed this kit with no extra res or pumps cooling one 3770K & 2 GPU with 3 Rads at CES so you don't have to add reservoir.


----------



## yawa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Will it fit the HAF922?


Eh, I have a HAF 912 and the answer is "I'll make it fit."
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> While the normal, all-in-one water cooling solutions from Corsair, Antec and Thermaltake are all well documented and already out there and don't show too much improvement over air cooling, one of the best things going for them (in my opinion) is the advertised maintenance-free design.
> 
> With the H80 or Khueler 620, you never have to drain the loop and clean it out. For someone like me that loves the idea of water cooling, but dreads the thought of having to drain the entire system every time you want to change something or having to drain it a couple times a year and clean it completely, the H80 and 620 are very appealing. Does Swiftech advertise no-maintenance on this loop at all? What if you add a couple of GPU blocks? If you were to add the GPU blocks, would you have to also add in a reservoir?


Considering you have to add rads and fluid to accommodate more cooling properly, I'd imagine maintenance is a thing with these.

I will say though this AIO isn't about that. Its about being the perfect middle ground between a custom loop and a high end air cooler. The niche nearly all other AIOs have failed to fill.

With that pump the potential is endless here.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Metric*
> 
> HiTechLegion - Swiftech H220 Advanced AiO Liquid CPU Cooler Review
> Core i5 3570K, 3.4GHz Stock
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Core i5 3570K, 4.6GHz OC @ 1.34V
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HiTechLegion - Swiftech H220 Liquid CPU Cooler Overview
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HiTechLegion - Swiftech H220 Installation


The review is terribly poor. I still don't understand why reviewers can't understand that fact that an improper installation will screw up the results, and thus why you HAVE to mount the product several times and average the results. Martin has proved this once and again, and at this day and age 1-2ºC up or down would change the results completely.

So, I don't doubt the H220 is the best in its class, but lets wait for a REAL reviewer to come in, aka Martin. Its funny that this man does it for fun yet all the review sites our there that do it for page-hits do a much worse job than he does. Funny...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> While the normal, all-in-one water cooling solutions from Corsair, Antec and Thermaltake are all well documented and already out there and don't show too much improvement over air cooling, one of the best things going for them (in my opinion) is the advertised maintenance-free design.
> 
> With the H80 or Khueler 620, you never have to drain the loop and clean it out. For someone like me that loves the idea of water cooling, but dreads the thought of having to drain the entire system every time you want to change something or having to drain it a couple times a year and clean it completely, the H80 and 620 are very appealing. Does Swiftech advertise no-maintenance on this loop at all? What if you add a couple of GPU blocks? If you were to add the GPU blocks, would you have to also add in a reservoir?


If you don't plan to change the loop... you have 3 years of warranty for the sealed product. Now, If you were to add things, you would have to tear it up and, then, I think only 1 year of warranty would apply (although can't confirm).


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Will it fit the HAF922?


will find out soon enough


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> The review is terribly poor. I still don't understand why reviewers can't understand that fact that an improper installation will screw up the results, and thus why you HAVE to mount the product several times and average the results. Martin has proved this once and again, and at this day and age 1-2ºC up or down would change the results completely.
> 
> So, I don't doubt the H220 is the best in its class, but lets wait for a REAL reviewer to come in, aka Martin. Its funny that this man does it for fun yet all the review sites our there that do it for page-hits do a much worse job than he does. Funny...
> If you don't plan to change the loop... you have 3 years of warranty for the sealed product. Now, If you were to add things, you would have to tear it up and, then, I think only 1 year of warranty would apply (although can't confirm).


One of the main reasons why LC reviewers starting making multiple mounts was the mounting mechanism. It used to be pretty dependent on how many turns you would do on the nuts that compress the springs. Not a single AIO in the review using a mechanism that allows for any freedom in adjusting the mounting mechanism, you have to screw in all the way till it stops. This alone pretty much allows for much more consistent mounts. Also add in all of the AIO (but the Swiftech) come with pre-applied TIM which doesn't allow you to do multiple mounts with the stock (i.e. real life conditions) TIM.

That being said Martin's got a kit for review too


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> will find out soon enough


Please let us know soon


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> While the normal, all-in-one water cooling solutions from Corsair, Antec and Thermaltake are all well documented and already out there and don't show too much improvement over air cooling, one of the best things going for them (in my opinion) is the advertised maintenance-free design.
> 
> With the H80 or Khueler 620, you never have to drain the loop and clean it out. For someone like me that loves the idea of water cooling, but dreads the thought of having to drain the entire system every time you want to change something or having to drain it a couple times a year and clean it completely, the H80 and 620 are very appealing. Does Swiftech advertise no-maintenance on this loop at all? What if you add a couple of GPU blocks? If you were to add the GPU blocks, would you have to also add in a reservoir?


The H220 is a seal AIO, you do not need to take it a part if you do not want. Swiftech gives you the option to add GPU block, extra rads to the H220 for people who would want to expand on this.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> The review is terribly poor. I still don't understand why reviewers can't understand that fact that an improper installation will screw up the results, and thus why you HAVE to mount the product several times and average the results. Martin has proved this once and again, and at this day and age 1-2ºC up or down would change the results completely.
> 
> So, I don't doubt the H220 is the best in its class, but lets wait for a REAL reviewer to come in, aka Martin. Its funny that this man does it for fun yet all the review sites our there that do it for page-hits do a much worse job than he does. Funny...
> If you don't plan to change the loop... you have 3 years of warranty for the sealed product. Now, If you were to add things, you would have to tear it up and, then, I think only 1 year of warranty would apply (although can't confirm).


This review is very good and better what was out there so far.
It is 3 years maintenance free warranty. Once you take apart, you still have 3 year warranty, but leakage is not covered anymore. The warranty covers the parts on the H220.
All these AIO coverage is a case by case only and has never be 100% to cover anything from leaking.
Anything to do with watercooling is and has always been a side of caution. Even people who do this all the time can get leaks in there system.
Hope I quoted stephenm correctly on the warranty.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> One of the main reasons why LC reviewers starting making multiple mounts was the mounting mechanism. It used to be pretty dependent on how many turns you would do on the nuts that compress the springs. Not a single AIO in the review using a mechanism that allows for any freedom in adjusting the mounting mechanism, you have to screw in all the way till it stops. This alone pretty much allows for much more consistent mounts. Also add in all of the AIO (but the Swiftech) come with pre-applied TIM which doesn't allow you to do multiple mounts with the stock (i.e. real life conditions) TIM.
> 
> That being said Martin's got a kit for review too


Maybe its not the case on your product... but it certainly is on the competition products and, thus, why reviews are kinda useless if not done properly









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> This review is very good and better what was out there so far.
> It is 3 years maintenance free warranty. Once you take apart, you still have 3 year warranty, but leakage is not covered anymore. The warranty covers the parts on the H220.
> All these AIO coverage is a case by case only and has never be 100% to cover anything from leaking.
> Anything to do with watercooling is and has always been a side of caution. Even people who do this all the time can get leaks in there system.
> Hope I quoted stephenm correctly on the warranty.


The review is not good at all. I didn't need any review to know that the H220 would be better than all the other kits out there (if tested properly, if anything because Swiftech's own testing results normally match those of the experienced reviewers out there, at least for the time being), but the problem comes when you don't acknowledge how to properly test thermal-related computer parts and, thus, the results mean nothing.

Simply go look into Martin's testing and you will see that mounting alone makes A TON of difference. Do you see the difference of that review between products? All of them are so close that 1 or 2ºC up or down would change everything entirely. Example:



http://martinsliquidlab.org/2011/05/02/i7-2600k-cpu-swiftech-apogee-xt/5/

Keep in mind that those results were fetched by a man that has been tinkering with WC since the dawn of time and has probably done 1.000 mounts (probably even more). My point: if somebody with such expertise isn't capable of making their results consistent enough not to require a lot of mounts... do you truly believe people with 1/100 his expertise will?

A VGA, cpu, ram or most other parts don't require mounting... because mounting doesn't change performance. In case with liquid and air cooling: it does. And the market is so crowded today and all the products are so close to each other than 1-2ºC up or down across the board means EVERYTHING. Just imagine that, when testing 2 products, you get a perfect mount on one of the, and the worst possible on the other: BAM! You have two products that perform the same although the review states a 3.5ºC difference... simply because the mounting was optimal in one case and terrible on the other hand.

So, no. We shouldn't encourage nor give hits to those who don't care to make DECENT reviews... for the same reason I don't care to see psu reviews made by people that lack the testing means to obtain any decent data. We don't praise Jonnyguru or Martin because... whatever... we do because they are rigorous and logic with their procedure and, combined, means that their data has been obtained by almost-scientific means and, thus, such data is useful AND logic. Data not obtained by those means will always be subject to discussion specially because there is no way to check whether such data has any pattern or if its a result of a ton of random events chained together.

PS: of course, in order to eliminate deviations blocks should be mounted 100 times... but the time needed to do so outweighs the gains.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Prava you have to understand. Martins Liquid Lab is a different test site. He focuses on watercooling aspect. Not everyone will use the H220 as a expanding kit. Most till likely use it as how the H100 is now. Just a simple plug & Play, hence the reviews from others to compare in the AIO.

When I said the review is good, it is. For the purpose of simple install compared to others.


----------



## zinfinion

Quiet? ✓
Cool? ✓
Price? ✓
Don't care about 1 to 2 °C standard deviation? ✓


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Prava you have to understand. Martins Liquid Lab is a different test site. He focuses on watercooling aspect. Not everyone will use the H220 as a expanding kit. Most till likely use it as how the H100 is now. Just a simple plug & Play, hence the reviews from others to compare in the AIO.
> 
> When I said the review is good, it is. For the purpose of simple install compared to others.


You don't get it. It doesn't matter if you use the H220 as an AIO or not, mounting deviation still exists with this product and competing ones and thus why the review is useless. See the difference between all the products? Now factor the mounting deviation, and the fact that all the kits were tested into a case (no idea why) and the only reasonable conclusion is that: THE DATA IS USELESS. As simple as that.


----------



## dartuil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> Quiet? ✓
> Cool? ✓
> Price? ✓
> Don't care about 1 to 2 °C standard deviation? ✓


Ready to buy ? ✓


----------



## Sickened1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> You don't get it. It doesn't matter if you use the H220 as an AIO or not, mounting deviation still exists with this product and competing ones and thus why the review is useless. See the difference between all the products? Now factor the mounting deviation, and the fact that all the kits were tested into a case (no idea why) and the only reasonable conclusion is that: THE DATA IS USELESS. As simple as that.


To say that it is useless, is just pure ignorance. Regardless as to how "imperfect" the testing bed was, its factual, real life data. And will give a GENERAL, not exact, idea of performance.


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> The H220 is a seal AIO, you do not need to take it a part if you do not want. Swiftech gives you the option to add GPU block, extra rads to the H220 for people who would want to expand on this.
> This review is very good and better what was out there so far.
> It is 3 years maintenance free warranty. Once you take apart, you still have 3 year warranty, but leakage is not covered anymore. The warranty covers the parts on the H220.


Right, but my question wasn't about warranty - it was mostly about maintenance. They advertise maintenance free on these for three years, but I don't think it will stay "maintenance free" if you add in a GPU block or whatever. Makes you wonder how they are able to make these "maintenance free" for the three years?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> Right, but my question wasn't about warranty - it was mostly about maintenance. They advertise maintenance free on these for three years, but I don't think it will stay "maintenance free" if you add in a GPU block or whatever. Makes you wonder how they are able to make these "maintenance free" for the three years?


maintenance free is as it says. If you do not take it apart or add any extra components. Then it is maintenance free for 3 years, like any of the current AIO out there.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Maybe its not the case on your product... but it certainly is on the competition products and, thus, why reviews are kinda useless if not done properly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The review is not good at all. I didn't need any review to know that the H220 would be better than all the other kits out there (if tested properly, if anything because Swiftech's own testing results normally match those of the experienced reviewers out there, at least for the time being), but the problem comes when you don't acknowledge how to properly test thermal-related computer parts and, thus, the results mean nothing.


As I said already, AIO units offer a bullet proof mechanism as well (not like some custom LC brands that leave users freedom to adjust each screw differently which btw is the reason why there are so many variations in mounting). And, on top of this other AIO's come with a pre-applied TIM, which makes multi-mount testing impossible to do unless you own several units of the product.

Obviously, testing all units with the same compound is very relevant in the custom LC industries because either waterblocks don't even come with any sort of TIM or users are often ready to swap out TIM for a better one - which allows for a more apple to apple test if you will. But when it comes to AIO's, I think it's safe to assume, most people won't clean up the original TIM to use a better one - unless they had to remount for any reason.

I've personally done thermal testing/engineering here at Swiftech for 7 years and TIM related work is one of the things I've dedicated a lot of my time for reasons I won't disclose here. But basically, you can trust me when I say mounting variations are mainly coming from the freedom manufacturers give to users in installing a block (or any heatsink for that matter) on a CPU - freedom which actually makes screwing up a mount a very easy task... And all AIO I've tested thus far have this mechanical stop to prevent over-torquing one screw.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> You don't get it. It doesn't matter if you use the H220 as an AIO or not, mounting deviation still exists with this product and competing ones and thus why the review is useless. See the difference between all the products? Now factor the mounting deviation, and the fact that all the kits were tested into a case (no idea why) and the only reasonable conclusion is that: THE DATA IS USELESS. As simple as that.


Testing an AIO in a case if very relevant data. There are many aspects to take into consideration like the airflow around the CPU block/pump. There is quite a bit of residual heat from the CPU and more importantly the mosfet's. When you are testing it outside, none (none) of the air flow from the 2 fans on the radiators will actually help cooling down. In other words AIO's with high CFM fans (like the corsair H100i) will appear with even worse performance when tested outside. I.E. testing on an open bench will Always give a performance advantage to the kits running lower CFM fans (like the H220).

We can talk more about testing conditions, and be fair about it but the only way to give relevant data is to actual test exactly as how end users will use their units. And I don't believe any end users will actually run their AIO's on an open bench, right?


----------



## Pogi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> You don't get it. It doesn't matter if you use the H220 as an AIO or not, mounting deviation still exists with this product and competing ones and thus why the review is useless. See the difference between all the products? Now factor the mounting deviation, and the fact that all the kits were tested into a case (no idea why) and the only reasonable conclusion is that: THE DATA IS USELESS. As simple as that.


Why are you being so pedantic? You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

I don't know _anyone_ in the _real world_ who uses a CLC or a custom loop without a case and/or worries about a 1-2 degree difference.

And mounting deviations? Really?! Maybe it's because I'm a noob to CLC and custom WC but how many people actually mount and remount their coolers repeatedly in order eliminate mounting/temperature deviations? I am genuinely curious. I'd rather spend that time minimizing my OC voltages and delidding my 3570k.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pogi*
> 
> Why are you being so pedantic? You're making a mountain out of a molehill.
> 
> I don't know _anyone_ in the _real world_ who uses a CLC or a custom loop without a case and/or worries about a 1-2 degree difference.
> 
> And mounting deviations? Really?! Maybe it's because I'm a noob to CLC and custom WC but how many people actually mount and remount their coolers repeatedly in order eliminate mounting/temperature deviations? I am genuinely curious. I'd rather spend that time minimizing my OC voltages and delidding my 3570k.


Eh, with a lot of poorly made coolers it can easily be worth your effort to mount your cooler a couple times to try and get it done right. The better the mounting system, the less likely you are to cause deviation enough to need to mount multiple times. However, the point Stephen is making is that all the current AIO units uses a mounting system that generally is consistent, and it won't make a big difference.

As I said earlier in the thread, the performance of this system really isn't a secret. Swiftech isn't trying to hide anything from us, and we know how the rad/fans/pump should all work for the most part. It will have slightly lower temperatures, while being much quieter compared to most of the competition. The reviews we've seen so far support that, and even if all the results change 1-2 degrees the same story will be told for the most part.

Unless a major flaw turns up between now and release(at this point unlikely, one of the reviewers would have already had an issue probably) I'm planning on buying one as soon as they release and I have the money. Hopefully swiftech does a good job getting a good amount of them out and availability won't be an issue. Even if it is, I'm still getting one as soon as I can!


----------



## Sickened1

Im gonna put this thing to the test! On top of whats already there, a 360mm rad, motherboard block(crosshair V). and 1-2 GPU blocks(8970). Should be good.


----------



## Phelan

I think you'll be in luck with trying to get one as soon as they're released; IIRC Gabe stated he's opening with 3000 units.


----------



## Sickened1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> I think you'll be in luck with trying to get one as soon as they're released; IIRC Gabe stated he's opening with 3000 units.


Good. Really don't wanna wait forever to get my hands on it.


----------



## Nightz2k

Definitely wanting this since I seen the youtube vids a few days ago. I wanted the H100i until I heard about this.









_Sure I want to upgrade my GPU someday, but I really need something for my CPU since it's stock._


----------



## Pogi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Eh, with a lot of poorly made coolers it can easily be worth your effort to mount your cooler a couple times to try and get it done right. The better the mounting system, the less likely you are to cause deviation enough to need to mount multiple times.
> 
> -snip-


Out of curiosity, which CL / custom loops coolers (not air coolers) are so poorly made that they should be remounted a couple of times? How big is the difference between one remount and several remounts for said coolers? My friend just built his computer and wants to replace the stock heatsink with a CLC (too antsy to wait for H220), so it'd be great if I knew which CLC(s) to not recommend.

I understand the point stephenm is making and I fully agree. I quoted _Prava_ because he kept insisting the review was useless because the reviewer did not test on an open bench setup or do multiple remounts. Again, are there people who run CLC / custom loops on an open bench setup for everyday use and still worry about a 1-2 degree difference? Would a newbie (or anybody who is not a hardcore enthusiast) looking at the H220 even consider the thought of spending hours testing and repeatedly remounting their cooler for a _possible_ 1-2 degrees (maybe even less) decrease in temperatures?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pogi*
> 
> Out of curiosity, which CL / custom loops coolers (not air coolers) are so poorly made that they should be remounted a couple of times? How big is the difference between one remount and several remounts for said coolers? My friend just built his computer and wants to replace the stock heatsink with a CLC (too antsy to wait for H220), so it'd be great if I knew which CLC(s) to not recommend.
> 
> I understand the point stephenm is making and I fully agree. I quoted _Prava_ because he kept insisting the review was useless because the reviewer did not test on an open bench setup or do multiple remounts. Again, are there people who run CLC / custom loops on an open bench setup for everyday use and still worry about a 1-2 degree difference? Would a newbie (or anybody who is not a hardcore enthusiast) looking at the H220 even consider the thought of spending hours testing and repeatedly remounting their cooler for a _possible_ 1-2 degrees (maybe even less) decrease in temperatures?


As far as I know all the new CLC out on the market have fine mounting support, granted I haven't done extensive research into most of them as they really didn't interest me. I'm sure if you do a little searching you'll be able to find more about each one individually. For the average user, if you hook everything up and temps aren't quite a bit higher than they should be, they probably shouldn't worry about it. I'm sure if I'm wrong someone will quickly correct me!


----------



## Dizz22r

H320 Were are you? My money cant find you!!


----------



## Tom Thumb

If your just going to use this unit as a cpu cooler only, there is probably no need to wait on the H320, right?
I mean, would the H320 cool any better than the H220 as a cpu cooler only?


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> If your just going to use this unit as a cpu cooler only, there is probably no need to wait on the H320, right?
> I mean, would the H320 cool any better than the H220 as a cpu cooler only?


Nah, while peak performance might not differ significantly, the point for H320 is that you can run the fans on H320 at a lower speed to reach H220 level thermal performance with a quieter noise profile.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> If your just going to use this unit as a cpu cooler only, there is probably no need to wait on the H320, right?
> I mean, would the H320 cool any better than the H220 as a cpu cooler only?


My approximation is 2-5*C difference.


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> If your just going to use this unit as a cpu cooler only, there is probably no need to wait on the H320, right?
> I mean, would the H320 cool any better than the H220 as a cpu cooler only?


one is still free to use it as a normal 360 rad with extra pumping power if someone transforms it into a full loop. Its one of the reasons why i kinda garnered interest in the 120mm model that was stated a few pages back.(as 120mm fits just about any case.)


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> My approximation is 2-5*C difference.


correct


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sickened1*
> 
> To say that it is useless, is just pure ignorance. Regardless as to how "imperfect" the testing bed was, its factual, real life data. And will give a GENERAL, not exact, idea of performance.


We need no review to know the GENERAL performance of the device, do we? If this product were to come from a newcomer to the party... sure. But Swiftech? They are one of those rare companies that their in-house testing data matches of those of the more respected reviewers out there. If anybody needed to see that review in order to know the H220 "general" performance... they need to do a little more research about the products they put their interested towards.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pogi*
> 
> Why are you being so pedantic? You're making a mountain out of a molehill.
> 
> I don't know _anyone_ in the _real world_ who uses a CLC or a custom loop without a case and/or worries about a 1-2 degree difference.
> 
> And mounting deviations? Really?! Maybe it's because I'm a noob to CLC and custom WC but how many people actually mount and remount their coolers repeatedly in order eliminate mounting/temperature deviations? I am genuinely curious. I'd rather spend that time minimizing my OC voltages and delidding my 3570k.


The point is rather simple, actually. if you are interested in CLC you will decide the block to use factoring many different things, right? Looks, ease of use, price, performance and whatnot. Now, my point being is that if you would like to know the REAL performance of the product, one mount is simply not enough. I'm not saying you need to remount your own block several times... I'm saying its useless to compare products that are so close together if you have no intention to test them right, thats all. So, I don't see the point in comparing the H220 with all the other AIO's out there if the reviewer won't bother to look at the fine print and find the REAL differences between the kits... simply because unless something is terribly designed all those products will be very close to each other.

This is an example from http://martinsliquidlab.org/. Martin is also a poster here, and has provided tons of factual information about CLC for a lot of years. He is terribly detailed with his proceedings to the point that most of the time his methodology is far longer than his actual data, which reflects the level of detail he presents.

http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1260095/



All this blocks are terribly close to each other performance-wise. So, if you want to know THE BEST, the only way to find out is to mount them several times... and it doesn't matter how good the mount-type you have (as reported by Stephen), there are mounting deviations. Those deviations need to be averaged in order to show the performance that real life users will get. And If you don't care about the real best... it's fine, but at least don't make such claims, and simply state that the performance differences is too small for you to care. I'm personally not into the "best BEST" so long as the difference is kinda small... but to each his own (and, for that matters, the pwm capability of the H220 would make it a taker over all the other products even if it performed a tad worse).

Again, none of this matters if you will choose factoring other things such as ease of use or any other thing you might imagine. But truth be told, nobody should be claiming that "a product is better than another" unless a WELL DONE review is able to provide with factual data that correlates with such statement.

All in all, I don't doubt Swiftech's data, nor doubt the ability of the H220 to be a "monster". Heck, I've despised the whole AIO market simply because it didn't offer a true advantatge over the air-cooling solutions, and they weren't cheap either, but the H220 brings together the CLC with the conventional market into a heck of a product both quality, ease of use and all the other things together. But still, I just can't support poorly made reviews, let alone read people make statements with their data as if it was more valid than any numbers I could create into my head, because they aren't.

PS: the same could be said about GPU reviews... if you have ever done any benchmark-like tests, you will see that the performance changes for every run. Now, its terribly easy to skew results (both accidentally and on purpose) if you don't make a few trials and average results


----------



## Pogi

Did anyone else get that? If so please break it down and explain it to me very clearly, my mind was all over the place.


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pogi*
> 
> Did anyone else get that? If so please break it down and explain it to me very clearly, my mind was all over the place.


Summary: All heatsink reviews are invalid if they don't do multiple mounts and show the results from those mounts or average the mounts. Even though Martin only had an average of a 1C difference between mounts, it matters.

This, of course, ignores that you need an n of 30 to reach statistical significance. So unless you do 30 mounts, the data is still not worth anything. It also ignores that CLCs come with a TIM pre-applied, so it's impossible to show which one performs best at the stock configuration since any reseat would require you to remove the stock TIM and apply an aftermarket TIM, thus invalidating your results.


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pogi*
> 
> Did anyone else get that? If so please break it down and explain it to me very clearly, my mind was all over the place.


1°C matters. To some people anyway...


----------



## Pogi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nubbinator*
> 
> Summary: All heatsink reviews are invalid if they don't do multiple mounts and show the results from those mounts or average the mounts. Even though Martin only had an average of a 1C difference between mounts, it matters.
> 
> This, of course, ignores that you need an n of 30 to reach statistical significance. So unless you do 30 mounts, the data is still not worth anything. It also ignores that CLCs come with a TIM pre-applied, so it's impossible to show which one performs best at the stock configuration since any reseat would require you to remove the stock TIM and apply an aftermarket TIM, thus invalidating your results.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> 1°C matters. To some people anyway...


Okay, thanks for clarifying!


----------



## hpak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Will it fit the HAF922?


I have a haf 922 as well and asked the same question. Didn't get a clear answer as of yet, but I did have my case open this past weekend for cleaning and installation of another ssd







and while I was at it, I did a quick mockup using the dimensions of the h220 and it should fit. My only concern is my 8 pin power to the mb. My 8 pin is situated at the top left edge of the mb. It might be a tight fit, but it should clear. I'll find detailed out in a few weeks, once I get my hands on a h220


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hpak*
> 
> I have a haf 922 as well and asked the same question. Didn't get a clear answer as of yet, but I did have my case open this past weekend for cleaning and installation of another ssd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and while I was at it, I did a quick mockup using the dimensions of the h220 and it should fit. My only concern is my 8 pin power to the mb. My 8 pin is situated at the top left edge of the mb. It might be a tight fit, but it should clear. I'll find detailed out in a few weeks, once I get my hands on a h220


Great. Please let me know by then







My 8-pin is also located at the top left edge of my MB. Are the included fans of the H220 already considered high-performance fans?


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Great. Please let me know by then
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My 8-pin is also located at the top left edge of my MB. Are the included fans of the H220 already considered high-performance fans?


the fans on them are very silent and perform what they need to on the unit. i want to say that they are swiftech helix 120's, which are 10$ fans each.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dudewitbow*
> 
> the fans on them are very silent and perform what they need to on the unit. i want to say that they are swiftech helix 120's, which are 10$ fans each.


And I presume that they are also PWM-controlled?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> We need no review to know the GENERAL performance of the device, do we? If this product were to come from a newcomer to the party... sure. But Swiftech? They are one of those rare companies that their in-house testing data matches of those of the more respected reviewers out there. If anybody needed to see that review in order to know the H220 "general" performance... they need to do a little more research about the products they put their interested towards.
> The point is rather simple, actually. if you are interested in CLC you will decide the block to use factoring many different things, right? Looks, ease of use, price, performance and whatnot. Now, my point being is that if you would like to know the REAL performance of the product, one mount is simply not enough. I'm not saying you need to remount your own block several times... I'm saying its useless to compare products that are so close together if you have no intention to test them right, thats all. So, I don't see the point in comparing the H220 with all the other AIO's out there if the reviewer won't bother to look at the fine print and find the REAL differences between the kits... simply because unless something is terribly designed all those products will be very close to each other.
> 
> This is an example from http://martinsliquidlab.org/. Martin is also a poster here, and has provided tons of factual information about CLC for a lot of years. He is terribly detailed with his proceedings to the point that most of the time his methodology is far longer than his actual data, which reflects the level of detail he presents.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1260095/
> 
> 
> 
> All this blocks are terribly close to each other performance-wise. So, if you want to know THE BEST, the only way to find out is to mount them several times... and it doesn't matter how good the mount-type you have (as reported by Stephen), there are mounting deviations. Those deviations need to be averaged in order to show the performance that real life users will get. And If you don't care about the real best... it's fine, but at least don't make such claims, and simply state that the performance differences is too small for you to care. I'm personally not into the "best BEST" so long as the difference is kinda small... but to each his own (and, for that matters, the pwm capability of the H220 would make it a taker over all the other products even if it performed a tad worse).
> 
> Again, none of this matters if you will choose factoring other things such as ease of use or any other thing you might imagine. But truth be told, nobody should be claiming that "a product is better than another" unless a WELL DONE review is able to provide with factual data that correlates with such statement.
> 
> All in all, I don't doubt Swiftech's data, nor doubt the ability of the H220 to be a "monster". Heck, I've despised the whole AIO market simply because it didn't offer a true advantatge over the air-cooling solutions, and they weren't cheap either, but the H220 brings together the CLC with the conventional market into a heck of a product both quality, ease of use and all the other things together. But still, I just can't support poorly made reviews, let alone read people make statements with their data as if it was more valid than any numbers I could create into my head, because they aren't.
> 
> PS: the same could be said about GPU reviews... if you have ever done any benchmark-like tests, you will see that the performance changes for every run. Now, its terribly easy to skew results (both accidentally and on purpose) if you don't make a few trials and average results


Read my 2 responses in the previous pages.


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> And I presume that they are also PWM-controlled?


well they're cpu fans, so its usually 4 pin is it not?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hpak*
> 
> I have a haf 922 as well and asked the same question. Didn't get a clear answer as of yet, but I did have my case open this past weekend for cleaning and installation of another ssd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and while I was at it, I did a quick mockup using the dimensions of the h220 and it should fit. My only concern is my 8 pin power to the mb. My 8 pin is situated at the top left edge of the mb. It might be a tight fit, but it should clear. I'll find detailed out in a few weeks, once I get my hands on a h220


waiting for the HAF922, will have an answer soon enough

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> And I presume that they are also PWM-controlled?


correct they connect to our 8 channel PWM splitter (included in the kit)


----------



## hpak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dudewitbow*
> 
> the fans on them are very silent and perform what they need to on the unit. i want to say that they are swiftech helix 120's, which are 10$ fans each.


The included fans are quite similar in performance to GTs if I'm not mistaken. For a rad like the H220 with the approximate 14fpi, static pressure would be the deciding consideration in choosing replacement fans. Looking at the rated static pressure of the included fans, I don't think you would need to change them out at all, especially when you consider the noise level to performance of these fans.


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hpak*
> 
> The included fans are quite similar in performance to GTs if I'm not mistaken. For a rad like the H220 with the approximate 14fpi, static pressure would be the deciding consideration in choosing replacement fans. Looking at the rated static pressure of the included fans, I don't think you would need to change them out at all, especially when you consider the noise level to performance of these fans.


I would think the Helix' were designed as an alternative to the GT's as switechs product page compares it directly acoustic wise(and the looks are moderately similar too). the only thing thats a major difference is the price(besides the looks) as GT's are like 1.5x the cost of Helix's


----------



## M3TAl

This is just me but I think GT's are ugly haha. Those Helix's are much more sexy.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dudewitbow*
> 
> well they're cpu fans, so its usually 4 pin is it not?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> waiting for the HAF922, will have an answer soon enough
> correct they connect to our 8 channel PWM splitter (included in the kit)


Thanks!


----------



## hyperkite

NCIX is already taking pre-orders if this has not been mentioned earlier
in this thread..


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=79583


For someone like me who is new to water-cooling it will
be fun to be able to buy a product that will allow me to update my
system with ease.
If this works out it will set the bar a little higher and maybe we will
see some innovation from the other Companies. It could be a paradigm
shift with the way AIO's are made. As a member of this group I am always
looking for new things, some work and some do not, but we keep trying...


----------



## hpak

I was wondering.... I have some Cougar CF-V12 PWM fans lying around..... How would these fans compare? Maybe thinking of a push pull with the stock fans as is with pull and installing the Cougars as push from outside the case.

Thinking it's probably not a good idea to mix fans, but what do you guys think?


----------



## M3TAl

Buy me an H220 and I'll tell you







. I got 8 of those Cougars.


----------



## hpak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> Buy me an H220 and I'll tell you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I got 8 of those Cougars.


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> If your just going to use this unit as a cpu cooler only, there is probably no need to wait on the H320, right?
> I mean, would the H320 cool any better than the H220 as a cpu cooler only?


Reasons why I want the h320. One, because it fits the top of my case perfectly.Two better cooling like people already have said. Three, Gives me room to expand. But mostly because my case can fit it!

I cant wait to see what they came up with the h320. I read Gabe might release their new pump to be used at its full potential of 4500 Rpm. Later down the road!


----------



## JackieTran

Will it fit in any of those positions?


----------



## navit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hyperkite*
> 
> NCIX is already taking pre-orders if this has not been mentioned earlier
> in this thread..
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=79583
> 
> 
> For someone like me who is new to water-cooling it will
> be fun to be able to buy a product that will allow me to update my
> system with ease.
> If this works out it will set the bar a little higher and maybe we will
> see some innovation from the other Companies. It could be a paradigm
> shift with the way AIO's are made. As a member of this group I am always
> looking for new things, some work and some do not, but we keep trying...


Little bit of markup on the preorder there,


----------



## hyperkite

Little bit of markup on the preorder there

A wee bit


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navit*
> 
> Little bit of markup on the preorder there,


Bad pricing done from them.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hyperkite*
> 
> NCIX is already taking pre-orders if this has not been mentioned earlier
> in this thread..
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> http://us.ncix.com/products/?sku=79583
> 
> 
> For someone like me who is new to water-cooling it will
> be fun to be able to buy a product that will allow me to update my
> system with ease.
> If this works out it will set the bar a little higher and maybe we will
> see some innovation from the other Companies. It could be a paradigm
> shift with the way AIO's are made. As a member of this group I am always
> looking for new things, some work and some do not, but we keep trying...


NCIX US is not a good place to get watercooling. Priced higher than Canadian or other US sites.
Canada is $149.99 CAD, it is correct from US difference of $139.99 US at FrozenCPU


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> 
> Will it fit in any of those positions?


The tubing on these units is approximately 1 foot 4 inches in length so as long as you keep that in mind there shouldn't be a problem with fitting the radiator into those positions. I just checked Fractal Design Define R4 in our lab that is very similar to that Corsair case and it should fit fine in either the front or the floor of that case. We have yet to physically test it in that position, but judging from the space requirements it should fit.


----------



## thelude

Pre-ordered my a couple of days ago.







Can't wait to put it into my new build with a i7-3770k, Maximus V Formula, and HD 7950. RIght now I'm using a stock intel cooler







so i can't o.c. my cpu yet!


----------



## yawa

I have a HAF 912. Trust me when I say, I will make space for this if need be. So stop worrying. This cooler changes everything. EVERYTHING.

So get ready to ride the water cooling wave BABY all the way to MARS or prepare to be a bloated corpse floating in the dark ocean of space. Whooooooo!


----------



## thelude

If this is answered please point me to the post.

Since I will likely expand the H220 down the road, how can I refill the loop properly? As my understanding from custom loop, you have to fill the reservoir and keep the pump cycling until the loop is full. With the built in reservoir and being painted black from the pictures, how can you tell if its full?

Thanks,


----------



## SmokinWaffle

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> So get ready to ride the water cooling wave BABY all the way to MARS or prepare to be a bloated corpse floating in the dark ocean of space. Whooooooo!


----------



## yawa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmokinWaffle*


Sorry I'm just in love with this thing. Madly.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thelude*
> 
> If this is answered please point me to the post.
> 
> Since I will likely expand the H220 down the road, how can I refill the loop properly? As my understanding from custom loop, you have to fill the reservoir and keep the pump cycling until the loop is full. With the built in reservoir and being painted black from the pictures, how can you tell if its full?
> 
> Thanks,


That's a great question. I don't think I've seen it covered either so I'll go ahead and answer it directly. What you'll need to do is look inside the fill port as you're filling it. This will allow you to see when the fluid is getting near the top of the reservoir. You should also cycle your pump after each time you add fluid. This will help to remove air bubbles so that you'll have a better idea of where your fluid level actually is. I hope this answers your question.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thelude*
> 
> If this is answered please point me to the post.
> 
> Since I will likely expand the H220 down the road, how can I refill the loop properly? As my understanding from custom loop, you have to fill the reservoir and keep the pump cycling until the loop is full. With the built in reservoir and being painted black from the pictures, how can you tell if its full?
> 
> Thanks,


Refilling can be done inside or outside the case. When possible we recommend to do it outside with your power supply only connected to the kit and nothing else. Assuming you've already added your GPU and that tubes and clamps have been reinstalled, all you need to do is: have the radiator sit flat on a table with the tubes facing down so that the block/pump is effectively lower than the radiator. Open up the cap and start pouring liquid. At this point the pump is still off. Keep adding liquid until the radiator is about full. Lift up the reservoir side of the radiator with the other side still on the table so that the liquid flows down the tubes, you will hear some gurgling as the air inside the tubes goes back in the radiator. Repeats this until you can can't any more liquid. Start the pump with your power supply - you should see water moving slightly in the reservoir showing that fluid is being pushed. Keep the pump running until all the air is bled, this may take up to 30 minutes, you will need to keep adding liquid. When you can't add more, close up the reservoir cap and inspect the kit and finally turn off the pump. Install it back in the case, voila.


----------



## blackeyedcheese

I feel like it's been months since this was announced, the wait is killing me.


----------



## navit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackeyedcheese*
> 
> I feel like it's been months since this was announced, the wait is killing me.


aND ONE MORE OR SO TO GO.....yay!!!!


----------



## Chickenman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Refilling can be done inside or outside the case. When possible we recommend to do it outside with your power supply only connected to the kit and nothing else. Assuming you've already added your GPU and that tubes and clamps have been reinstalled, all you need to do is: have the radiator sit flat on a table with the tubes facing down so that the block/pump is effectively lower than the radiator. Open up the cap and start pouring liquid. At this point the pump is still off. Keep adding liquid until the radiator is about full. Lift up the reservoir side of the radiator with the other side still on the table so that the liquid flows down the tubes, you will hear some gurgling as the air inside the tubes goes back in the radiator. Repeats this until you can can't any more liquid. Start the pump with your power supply - you should see water moving slightly in the reservoir showing that fluid is being pushed. Keep the pump running until all the air is bled, this may take up to 30 minutes, you will need to keep adding liquid. When you can't add more, close up the reservoir cap and inspect the kit and finally turn off the pump. Install it back in the case, voila.


Surely you can whack a fitting and a bit of tubing to that fillport thereby extending it? More practical in a vertical installation I guess.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chickenman*
> 
> Surely you can whack a fitting and a bit of tubing to that fillport thereby extending it? More practical in a vertical installation I guess.


Yes you can, fill port thread is a standard G1/4"


----------



## thelude

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Refilling can be done inside or outside the case. When possible we recommend to do it outside with your power supply only connected to the kit and nothing else. Assuming you've already added your GPU and that tubes and clamps have been reinstalled, all you need to do is: have the radiator sit flat on a table with the tubes facing down so that the block/pump is effectively lower than the radiator. Open up the cap and start pouring liquid. At this point the pump is still off. Keep adding liquid until the radiator is about full. Lift up the reservoir side of the radiator with the other side still on the table so that the liquid flows down the tubes, you will hear some gurgling as the air inside the tubes goes back in the radiator. Repeats this until you can can't any more liquid. Start the pump with your power supply - you should see water moving slightly in the reservoir showing that fluid is being pushed. Keep the pump running until all the air is bled, this may take up to 30 minutes, you will need to keep adding liquid. When you can't add more, close up the reservoir cap and inspect the kit and finally turn off the pump. Install it back in the case, voila.


Thanks Stephen. Maybe you guys can make an acrylic reservoir some day.


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thelude*
> 
> Thanks Stephen. Maybe you guys can make an acrylic reservoir some day.


http://www.swiftech.com/mcresmicrorev2reservoir.aspx ??


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thelude*
> 
> Thanks Stephen. Maybe you guys can make an acrylic reservoir some day.


Maelstrom stand-alone (no pump)


----------



## nubbinator

Since I don't think anyone has posted it yet, Martin's review of the H220 is up now.

Here's the performance highlight:


----------



## sikkly

Pretty good review by Martin. His case sure doesn't play very nice with the h220 out of the box. Granted, I think if he added 2 fans he'd have pretty similar performance to out of the case, but I know he didn't want to for his stock testing.


----------



## yawa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nubbinator*
> 
> Since I don't think anyone has posted it yet, Martin's review of the H220 is up now.
> 
> Here's the performance highlight:


Its like Illuvatar himself came into Arda and said, " Lo this an all in one Water cooler that Melkor hath kept to himself uncorrupted by his vile machinations since the dawning of the second age, I bestow this gift unto you as is, cool what you please with it."

And there was much rejoicing among the children of Illuvatar, the Maia, and the Noldor for such a gift had not been seen since the dawning of the first age when Feanor trapped the light of two lamps in his greatest work...

And Melkor from beyond the circles of the world did weep, as the void he had been cast into became absolute.


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yawa*
> 
> Its like Illuvatar himself came into Arda and said, " Lo this an all in one Water cooler that Melkor hath kept to himself uncorrupted by his vile machinations since the dawning of the second age, I bestow this gift unto you as is, cool what you please with it."
> 
> And there was much rejoicing among the children of Illuvatar, the Maia, and the Noldor for such a gift had not been seen since the dawning of the first age when Feanor trapped the light of two lamps in his greatest work...
> 
> And Melkor from beyond the circles of the world did weep, as the void he had been cast into became absolute.


Silmarillion much? p.s. calm down.


----------



## yawa

I cant. This thing is madness


----------



## OmarCCX

I'm probably going to be building my PC before this hits retailers, might just use the intel stock heatsink until then.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nubbinator*
> 
> Since I don't think anyone has posted it yet, Martin's review of the H220 is up now.
> 
> Here's the performance highlight:


Thanks for the link. Nice review. I don't care much for the issues with the plastic screw clips when switching to the 2011 screws. What if you wanted to switch back again, but you destroyed the other clips trying to remove them. You would think Swiftech could come up with a better solution.







Other than that, it looks like a great unit!!!


----------



## Lowlife

I think I am going to have to get one of these. Nice piece of hardware.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> Thanks for the link. Nice review. I don't care much for the issues with the plastic screw clips when switching to the 2011 screws. What if you wanted to switch back again, but you destroyed the other clips trying to remove them. You would think Swiftech could come up with a better solution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Other than that, it looks like a great unit!!!


I'm sure you could get more from Swiftech, or order one of their Apogee Drive II mounting kits, since it's the same hardware, just a "premium" version. I plan to replace my Apogee Drive II with this unit, but I'll use my AD2 LGA 2011 mounting kit because I think it looks better.


----------



## dioxholster

im a noob at this, which is cheaper and easy to install? corsairs or swiftech which i never heard about before outside waterblocks? I prefer that one fan/rad but seems they one make the big rad, i wonder if price will reflect on that. im in the process of building a new PC (poor haswell will never see inside of my case), so should i wait till end of feb?


----------



## Faithh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dioxholster*
> 
> im a noob at this, which is cheaper and easy to install? corsairs or swiftech which i never heard about before outside waterblocks? I prefer that one fan/rad but seems they one make the big rad, i wonder if price will reflect on that. im in the process of building a new PC (poor haswell will never see inside of my case), so should i wait till end of feb?


The only point of going to AIO H2O is just to gain more space in your case or just avoid the awful looks of a huge heatsink. If you're not an intensive overclocker and you don't mind seeing ugly looks & a block taking your whole case's space just go with any heatsink.

If you are an intensive overclocker or you really mind looks, just go for the H220 or H100i but really the H220 is a lot quieter and performs much better and ofcourse it's expendable to add more radiators or just replace the default rad with a 360mm rad.

The current Hydro series are still experiencing firmware issues e.g. the fans are coil whining which is just an annoying issue.


----------



## Sickened1

So i plan on putting the radiator that comes with this, which has the res, in the bottom of a NZXT Switch 810, and a 360mm radiator on top. Would i be better off putting a swiftech micro res higher up than the cpu block/pump so that the res is above? Or is it not a huge deal?


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sickened1*
> 
> So i plan on putting the radiator that comes with this, which has the res, in the bottom of a NZXT Switch 810, and a 360mm radiator on top. Would i be better off putting a swiftech micro res higher up than the cpu block/pump so that the res is above? Or is it not a huge deal?


stephen has told me that orientation does not matter.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sickened1*
> 
> So i plan on putting the radiator that comes with this, which has the res, in the bottom of a NZXT Switch 810, and a 360mm radiator on top. Would i be better off putting a swiftech micro res higher up than the cpu block/pump so that the res is above? Or is it not a huge deal?


That orientation is only important when filling. Once it's closed it doesn't matter.


----------



## dioxholster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faithh*
> 
> The only point of going to AIO H2O is just to gain more space in your case or just avoid the awful looks of a huge heatsink. If you're not an intensive overclocker and you don't mind seeing ugly looks & a block taking your whole case's space just go with any heatsink.
> 
> If you are an intensive overclocker or you really mind looks, just go for the H220 or H100i but really the H220 is a lot quieter and performs much better and ofcourse it's expendable to add more radiators or just replace the default rad with a 360mm rad.
> 
> The current Hydro series are still experiencing firmware issues e.g. the fans are coil whining which is just an annoying issue.


Well i used a closed loop see my spec so i want to continue that, but it was a pain to install. another thing, I dont plan to expand, since that will just end up costing me more money and i never OC the graphics card anyway. The swiftech looks a lot more complicated due to its features than H100i, but then again corsair new product seems to be struggling. Does swiftech make a smaller cheaper version of H220?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dioxholster*
> 
> Well i used a closed loop see my spec so i want to continue that, but it was a pain to install. another thing, I dont plan to expand, since that will just end up costing me more money and i never OC the graphics card anyway. The swiftech looks a lot more complicated due to its features than H100i, but then again corsair new product seems to be struggling. Does swiftech make a smaller cheaper version of H220?


It isn't any more complicated than the Corsair. Plug the fan controller into your CPU header and a molex connector, plug your fans into the fan connector, mount it on your case with the 8 screws just like mounting 2 fans to it. The Block itself is apparently extremely simple to mount, and not much different than any other cpu cooler. If it fits into your case natively(which I'm pretty sure it does) than that is it, you are done! If you never want to touch it again it will most likely last just as long as the corsair product. The biggest difference between this AIO and other AIO, is when this one loses water you can refill it, the others you can't without modding them and taking away your warranty. And they all will lose the water eventually.

As far as a cheaper version, I highly doubt it. They may make a 120 version at some time, but it probably wouldn't be much cheaper. The extra price gives you a little bit more performance, a quieter pump/fan combo, and a really badass fan connector splitter/connector. Honestly, the fan connector alone is probably worth the difference between the H220 and Corsair's, considering if you aren't using a ton of high powered fans it'll run all of them. Really, Swiftech should(and probably is going to) sell it on it's own.


----------



## Aiid0z

Just a quick question, not sure if it has been stated here or not. What size tubing does the H220 use? ID and OD? because i plan on changing the tubing to clear with blue coolant and adding a GPU to the loop.

Thanks.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aiid0z*
> 
> Just a quick question, not sure if it has been stated here or not. What size tubing does the H220 use? ID and OD? because i plan on changing the tubing to clear with blue coolant and adding a GPU to the loop.
> 
> Thanks.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1345294/swiftech-to-unveil-new-h220-all-in-one-cpu-cooler-during-ces-2013/80#post_19149892


----------



## Aiid0z

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1345294/swiftech-to-unveil-new-h220-all-in-one-cpu-cooler-during-ces-2013/80#post_19149892


Thanks!


----------



## WALSRU

So as someone with an H100... someone talk me into this as an upgrade. It looks amazing but I'm having a hard time justifying it.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> So as someone with an H100... someone talk me into this as an upgrade. It looks amazing but I'm having a hard time justifying it.


It really depends on what your needs are. If you don't mind the amount of noise that the H100 unit puts out and you don't have a need to possibly expand your water cooling loop in the future then this new kit may not be for you. If you don't have any plans to attempt to improve your overclocking performance then this kit may not be for you. For the difference in price though I really don't think you can go wrong with our H220 kit. That's my perspective from being an avid water cooling enthusiast and overclocker. I hope this helps to answer your question.


----------



## ez12a

it performs essentially at the level of other 280mm based AIOs (X60, h110, etc.) in a 240mm form factor. Quiet as big air cooling at maximum speed (significantly quieter than the newish h100i).


----------



## WALSRU

I don't like voiding GPU warranties so I can imagine getting a hydrocopper next gen. The other big selling point is that I'm moving to an acrylic case similar in size to an FT03 mini and I really can't imagine the H100 tubing is going to cooperate with the small spaces. I would also love to get rid of the molex.

Well my 2500k just would not stay under 60C at 4.8ghz on this cooler. Now I leave it at 4.4ghz for 24/7 use and with my new NB Multiframes (awesome) it sits at 53C. What sort of temps could I expect if I had the CPU and GPU on the single radiator with mild overclocks? If it could manage low to mid 60's with low noise I'd jump on it in a second, 70's I don't think I'd be as excited.

P.S. Is your retention/backplate small enough my case won't need a cutout?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> Well my 2500k just would not stay under 60C at 4.8ghz on this cooler. Now I leave it at 4.4ghz for 24/7 use and with my new NB Multiframes (awesome) it sits at 53C. What sort of temps could I expect if I had the CPU and GPU on the single radiator with mild overclocks? If it could manage low to mid 60's with low noise I'd jump on it in a second.
> 
> I don't like voiding GPU warranties so I can imagine getting a hydrocopper next gen. The other big selling point is that I'm moving to an acrylic case similar in size to an FT03 mini and I really can't imagine the H100 tubing is going to cooperate with the small spaces. I would also love to get rid of the molex.


It's going to depend on what your ambient temperature is. If you look at the review that Martin of Martin's Liquid Labs did you can see that the delta temperatures that this unit is capable of are quite impressive. It will depend on how well your case is at providing sufficient air flow. This is something that Martin also mentions in his review. I happen to know a little about the BitFenix Prodigy. It does serve quite well for liquid cooling so long as you don't block the front intake fan too much. You want to make sure that you have good positive pressure inside the case because this will also reduce dust accumulation. With adding a GPU like the Hydrocopper from EVGA, this kit should suffice so long as your ambient temperatures are good. I hope this answers your question.


----------



## WALSRU

It's always 21C in my apartment year round so that shouldn't be a problem. I'll be moving out of my Prodigy pretty soon but my next case will have completely unrestricted airflow as well. Glad to hear it can handle a high end CPU and GPU in one loop, I'm very impressed from everything I've seen.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> It's always 21C in my apartment year round so that shouldn't be a problem. I'll be moving out of my Prodigy pretty soon but my next case will have completely unrestricted airflow as well. Glad to hear it can handle a high end CPU and GPU in one loop, I'm very impressed from everything I've seen.


With those ambient temperatures and good air-flow you shouldn't have any problems. Keep us posted and let us know how it goes.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> It isn't any more complicated than the Corsair. Plug the fan controller into your CPU header and a molex connector, plug your fans into the fan connector, mount it on your case with the 8 screws just like mounting 2 fans to it. The Block itself is apparently extremely simple to mount, and not much different than any other cpu cooler. If it fits into your case natively(which I'm pretty sure it does) than that is it, you are done! If you never want to touch it again it will most likely last just as long as the corsair product. The biggest difference between this AIO and other AIO, is when this one loses water you can refill it, the others you can't without modding them and taking away your warranty. And they all will lose the water eventually.
> 
> As far as a cheaper version, I highly doubt it. They may make a 120 version at some time, but it probably wouldn't be much cheaper. The extra price gives you a little bit more performance, a quieter pump/fan combo, and a really badass fan connector splitter/connector. Honestly, the fan connector alone is probably worth the difference between the H220 and Corsair's, considering if you aren't using a ton of high powered fans it'll run all of them. Really, Swiftech should(and probably is going to) sell it on it's own.


Your whole slant seems to be to save a buck. Do you care about quality and performance at all. If your ultimate goal is to save a buck get a Corsair H60 for $69
And then whine your temps are too high. The H220 has all copper radiators, better tubing, and a far better pump than any Corsair unit has. You get what you pay for plain and simple.

Sorry I replied to the wrong post. I obviously was replying to the fellow with the tight wallet. Swiftech is pricing this to catch AIO enthusiasts who want better quality. He is bantering about only the money. They will not peg their product at H50 or H80 prices then you sacrifice performance.


----------



## DJ XtAzY

Anandtech's review:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6716/closing-the-loop-ii-new-liquid-coolers-from-corsair-and-swiftech/4


----------



## zinfinion

*@stephenm*: Any chance of you running the H220 with a 280mm rad and a pumpless res (instead of the included rad/res) and getting back to us on the temp delta compared to the stock H220? I'm sure more than a few people would be interested in seeing those results.


----------



## SpykeZ

So honest opinion here. I'm about to order the XSPC Raystorm RS360. How do you think these two would compete against each other. Obviously getting beefier fans


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ XtAzY*
> 
> Anandtech's review:
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6716/closing-the-loop-ii-new-liquid-coolers-from-corsair-and-swiftech/4
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


I have serious doubts about the validity of the Anandtech review. I have a more detailed reason why in the Anandtech H220 review thread.

The two biggest giveaways that something wonky is going on with their review is the H100i beating the H80i when a myriad of other respectable sites have shown that to not be true and the fact that the H110 is beating the X60 in spite of the fact that the fan the H110 uses is a lower RPM fan with less static pressure and a lower CFM rating than the X60's fans (edit: and keep in mind that they have the same pump, waterblock, and rad, a result like that is impossible). Even OC3D has dramatically different results than them and I always dog them for their Silver Arrow review.


----------



## SpykeZ

I wasn't aware people still looked to anandtech. They're about as worthless as Tom's


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nubbinator*
> 
> I have serious doubts about the validity of the Anandtech review.


I'm with you there. The only thing I trust AnandTech on is SSD, CPU, and GPU, and then only when Anand does the testing and articles personally. Other than that I have no use for the site. And I actually prefer TechReport for GPUs given their "new" method of testing by frametimes, not min/avg/max FPS.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> *@stephenm*: Any chance of you running the H220 with a 280mm rad and a pumpless res (instead of the included rad/res) and getting back to us on the temp delta compared to the stock H220? I'm sure more than a few people would be interested in seeing those results.


I may already have the data actually, but your "pumpless res" confuses me a bit


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> I may already have the data actually, but your "pumpless res" confuses me a bit


Since none of your current 280 rads have a built in reservoir I was under the assumption that a separate reservoir would be needed in the loop. And having a pump in the reservoir would be rather redundant since the block already has a pump. I think that all makes sense. I'm new to all this.


----------



## ez12a

anandtech must have a really good H80i.

i think it's testing methodology and variables though that account for that.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> anandtech must have a really good H80i.
> 
> i think it's testing methodology and variables though that account for that.


I've got to agree with you. I really doubt that there was any intent to mislead or be biased toward one product or manufacturer over another. Just my two cents.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> I'm with you there. The only thing I trust AnandTech on is SSD, CPU, and GPU, and then only when Anand does the testing and articles personally. Other than that I have no use for the site. And I actually prefer TechReport for GPUs given their "new" method of testing by frametimes, not min/avg/max FPS.


I like Anand's case reviews normally as well. But yea, when I first read the anand review(at 1 in the morning) it didn't seem quite right. Results seemed wonky. Now that I go back through it, it just seems like a poorly done review. Starving the case of air is an unrealistic situation that shouldn't even be considered in my opinion. It is worse than doing the tests on a bench for real world performance. If other reviews pop up showing similar results than we have something to work with, but we'll see.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> I like Anand's case reviews normally as well. But yea, when I first read the anand review(at 1 in the morning) it didn't seem quite right. Results seemed wonky. Now that I go back through it, it just seems like a poorly done review. Starving the case of air is an unrealistic situation that shouldn't even be considered in my opinion. It is worse than doing the tests on a bench for real world performance. If other reviews pop up showing similar results than we have something to work with, but we'll see.


The only thing to keep in mind when testing in a case (which is still preferred when testing a whole LC system) is that a poorly ventilated case will give an advantage to AIO's running high CFM fans.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> Since none of your current 280 rads have a built in reservoir I was under the assumption that a separate reservoir would be needed in the loop. And having a pump in the reservoir would be rather redundant since the block already has a pump. I think that all makes sense. I'm new to all this.


I got you now








we have several reservoirs without pumps. But our H240 (2x 140mm AIO) will have a built-in reservoir similar to our H220. H240 performs 3+ degrees better than our H220 depending on the fans we end up using.


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> I like Anand's case reviews normally as well.


Case reviews are pretty hard to mess up though other than sound and temp testing. Just show me lots of pictures and give me some measurements such as back of the mobo tray depth ad whether AIO's fit well or not. Between HARDOCP and Vortez pretty much everything is covered.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> I got you now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> we have several reservoirs without pumps. But our H240 (2x 140mm AIO) will have a built-in reservoir similar to our H220. H240 performs 3+ degrees better than our H220 depending on the fans we end up using.










Sounds great. I'm thinking the H240 will fit well in the upcoming Arc Midi R2 from what I have seen of the fan layout..


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I've got to agree with you. I really doubt that there was any intent to mislead or be biased toward one product or manufacturer over another. Just my two cents.


I'm sure the case they're using (BitFenix Shinobi XL, which is known for having poor airflow) and a single front intake fan at 5v while using the rad in a push/exhaust configuration really doesn't help their results. It also doesn't make sense to me as a testing methodology.

As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter if you have no intent to be misleading really if your results are misleading and incorrect. As journalists, they should be striving for accurate and honest reviews. That means they should be trying to show how the products will perform in normal usage. They should be using a case with average to good airflow, two front intake fans pushing 35-50CFM, and have a graphics card in the case.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nubbinator*
> 
> I'm sure the case they're using (BitFenix Shinobi XL, which is known for having poor airflow) and a single front intake fan at 5v while using the rad in a push/exhaust configuration really doesn't help their results. It also doesn't make sense to me as a testing methodology.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter if you have no intent to be misleading really if your results are misleading and incorrect. As journalists, they should be striving for accurate and honest reviews. That means they should be trying to show how the products will perform in normal usage. They should be using a case with average to good airflow, two front intake fans pushing 35-50CFM, and have a graphics card in the case.


That's a good point and hopefully something they'll take under advisement in the future.


----------



## BramSLI1

Let me just say that as a former reviewer it isn't always easy to get the most accurate results. This is particularly true where accurately judging cooling performance is concerned. There are so many variables that can alter the results and trying to have consistency with every mount is something that can also be particularly tricky. With that being said it is also very important to give the most accurate results as possible because it's the reviewer's reputation and the site's reputation that are at stake. This is something that reviewers are constantly worried about and this is why they worry as much about accuracy as their readers do, if not more so. Again, just my two cents.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nubbinator*
> 
> I'm sure the case they're using (BitFenix Shinobi XL, which is known for having poor airflow) and a single front intake fan at 5v while using the rad in a push/exhaust configuration really doesn't help their results. It also doesn't make sense to me as a testing methodology.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter if you have no intent to be misleading really if your results are misleading and incorrect. As journalists, they should be striving for accurate and honest reviews. That means they should be trying to show how the products will perform in normal usage. They should be using a case with average to good airflow, two front intake fans pushing 35-50CFM, and have a graphics card in the case.


Upon looking a little more closely at this review I would have to say that they chose pretty much the perfect case for this review. It allows for the coolers to be isolated in respects to both noise and cooling performance. It doesn't completely take into account real-world types of situations, but that's not what this review was about. It was about pitting these coolers against each other under the most extreme of conditions and allowing them to be isolated in regards to cooling performance and noise. I think they did an excellent job at this even though the results might seem a little off. If you look at the explanation for why they those chose this particular testing methodology it pretty much speaks for itself.


----------



## SpykeZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> the reviewer's reputation and the site's reputation that are at stake. This is something that reviewers are constantly worried about and this is why they worry as much about accuracy as their readers do, if not more so. Again, just my two cents.


Not when money is involved lol


----------



## nubbinator

I still fail to see how the case is a good test bed though.
Quote:


> I needed a case that *could produce adequate airflow*, handle all of the different cooling systems without much trouble, and did not include any sound dampening features.


An Antec Eleven Hundred , Fractal Design Arc Midi, or many other cases would have given them all of the above, especially the adequate airflow component. We already know that the Shinobi has terrible air flow and the Shinobi XL is only a little bit better. With a single fan volted down to 5v in a case with poor airflow, you're starving the case for air.

Even ignoring the methods, there is still something wrong with their review. There is no way that the H110 beats the X60, not when it has a lower RPM fan that develops less static pressure and moves less air. There is also no way that the H80i beats the H100i. Even if their testing methods were perfect, which I really have a hard time saying they were, there is no way that those two results could be accurate. In the first case, it's like saying that a Prolimatech Megahalems with a pair of Deltas performs worse than one with a pair of Bitfenix Spectre Pros. You know there is no way that's true. And in the second case, it's like saying a Hyper 212 Evo beats the NH-D14.


----------



## Tatakai All

Goodbye H100, hello H220! On a side note, does anyone know if the rad is thicker than a H100 I couldn't tell?


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Upon looking a little more closely at this review I would have to say that they chose pretty much the perfect case for this review. It allows for the coolers to be isolated in respects to both noise and cooling performance. It doesn't completely take into account real-world types of situations, but that's not what this review was about. It was about pitting these coolers against each other under the most extreme of conditions and allowing them to be isolated in regards to cooling performance and noise. I think they did an excellent job at this even though the results might seem a little off. If you look at the explanation for why they those chose this particular testing methodology it pretty much speaks for itself.


i would like to see how they mounted the H80i, none of the pictures they have show how it's mounted nor any single radiator AIO for that matter. Could have very well put the h80i on the back as an intake which grabbed that extra few degrees of cooler air not to mention the rear 120mm is less restrictive.

But even corsair themselves said it is unusual for the H80i to be so close to the H100i. They either got a really good H80i or a bad H100i.


----------



## bluewr

So the current choice of AIO is like this?
NZXT 60 - Best overall performance, highest cost. - No possibility to add in extra stuff.
Corsair H110i - Slightly not as cool as NZXT60, lower cost, better fan? and able to Corsair link, if you're using other Corsair parts. No possibility to add in extra stuff
Swiftech 220 - Performance is about equal to the NZXT 60, but possibility to add on to it, if GPU support, liquid cooling, just add a pipe to it?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bluewr*
> 
> So the current choice of AIO is like this?
> NZXT 60 - Best overall performance, highest cost. - No possibility to add in extra stuff.
> Corsair H110i - Slightly not as cool as NZXT60, lower cost, better fan? and able to Corsair link, if you're using other Corsair parts. No possibility to add in extra stuff
> Swiftech 220 - Performance is about equal to the NZXT 60, but possibility to add on to it, if GPU support, liquid cooling, just add a pipe to it?


The h110 is not an i version, the i has the link software which it doesn't have. Also, its a 280 rad compared to a 240, which may make fitting it in a case more difficult for a lot of people.


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bluewr*
> 
> So the current choice of AIO is like this?
> NZXT 60 - Best overall performance, highest cost. - No possibility to add in extra stuff.
> Corsair H110i - Slightly not as cool as NZXT60, lower cost, better fan? and able to Corsair link, if you're using other Corsair parts. No possibility to add in extra stuff
> Swiftech 220 - Performance is about equal to the NZXT 60, but possibility to add on to it, if GPU support, liquid cooling, just add a pipe to it?


The Kraken X60 has a better fan than the H110. The H110 has a 1500RPM fan with less static pressure and a lower CFM rating than the Kraken X60 fan.

The Kraken X60 performs the same as the H220 with both of them maxed out. The H220 is a little quieter though and is expandable.

There is no H110i, there's only an H110 and it does not have Corsair Link. Really there's no reason to grab the H110 unless you only buy Corsair products or you want to spend $10 less.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tatakai All*
> 
> Goodbye H100, hello H220! On a side note, does anyone know if the rad is thicker than a H100 I couldn't tell?


H220 rad is 29mm and H100 27mm


----------



## dioxholster

For someone who doesnt know anything about custom watercooling and filling reservoirs, should i get this?


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dioxholster*
> 
> For someone who doesnt know anything about custom watercooling and filling reservoirs, should i get this?


Just don't touch the fillport ever and use it like a plug & play AIO, mount it, connect it, forget it.


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dioxholster*
> 
> For someone who doesnt know anything about custom watercooling and filling reservoirs, should i get this?


It's no different than a CLC installation wise unless you decide to expand it or need to refill it in a few years time. So the answer is yes.


----------



## MotO

Anandtech review? LMAO how about no.


----------



## SpykeZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MotO*
> 
> Anandtech review? LMAO how about no.


Hey...it could have been Tom's


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpykeZ*
> 
> Hey...it could have been Tom's


Honestly, I think a Tom's review would be more accurate. Their heatsink reviews usually look like they should. This one has ridiculous results.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nubbinator*
> 
> Honestly, I think a Tom's review would be more accurate. Their heatsink reviews usually look like they should. This one has ridiculous results.


The Anandtech Case/Cooling reviewer(Dustin) have been quite shaky recently, he destroyed the Switch 810 for some absurd reasons,somehow got the only magical H80i that outperformed H100i and now this.

I still trust their CPU/Mobo/SSD reviews, especially those done by Anand/Ian but these Case/Cooling reviews I take with a grain of salt at least.


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sherlock*
> 
> The Anandtech Case/Cooling reviewer(Dustin) have been quite shaky recently, he destroyed the Switch 810 for some absurd reasons,somehow got the only magical H80i that outperformed H100i and now this.
> 
> I still trust their CPU/Mobo/SSD reviews, especially those done by Anand/Ian but these Case/Cooling reviews I take with a grain of salt at least.


its almost like judging psus, dont judge by the brand but by the oem generally.(in this case, reviewer)


----------



## Equilibrium

whats your problem with anands review? it's totally fine.
let's read again:

If the Swiftech H220's performance is a little underwhelming, this is why. The H220 itself is definitely a strong radiator, but Swiftech clearly tuned their fans for acoustics instead of performance. At 30% fan speed only the X60 and H110 can offer both better thermal performance and fan speed, but at 100% fan speed, the louder, more aggressive fans are just able to push more cool air through their respective radiators.

What must be kept in mind is that while the H220 isn't necessarily blowing up the charts, the noise levels and thermal performance need to be connected and placed in context. The H220 is able to deliver competitive performance at lower noise levels than the competing radiators, and really only has to worry about the Corsair H110 and Kraken X60 beating it. Both of those are much harder to fit into most cases, too, a problem the Swiftech H220 doesn't have.

corsair and nzxt are only winning because of their noisy (and totally unusable) fans.
let's be honest: most users who buy the corsair or nzxt (or any other asetek/coolit kit) throw away the fans without a second thought.


----------



## WALSRU

Their performance chart did seem wonky to me but by the time I read the conclusion I was ok with the review.


----------



## cravinmild

Have you guys strapped this to a gpu yet. If so what were your results. I would like to pick one up when they launch-mid feb?. I like the idea of expanding and adding parts to the loop, I see value with that feature.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cravinmild*
> 
> Have you guys strapped this to a gpu yet. If so what were your results. I would like to pick one up when they launch-mid feb?. I like the idea of expanding and adding parts to the loop, I see value with that feature.


They have already. In the CES video you see it hooked up.


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Equilibrium*
> 
> whats your problem with anands review? it's totally fine.
> let's read again:
> 
> If the Swiftech H220's performance is a little underwhelming, this is why. The H220 itself is definitely a strong radiator, but Swiftech clearly tuned their fans for acoustics instead of performance. At 30% fan speed only the X60 and H110 can offer both better thermal performance and fan speed, but at 100% fan speed, the louder, more aggressive fans are just able to push more cool air through their respective radiators.
> 
> What must be kept in mind is that while the H220 isn't necessarily blowing up the charts, the noise levels and thermal performance need to be connected and placed in context. The H220 is able to deliver competitive performance at lower noise levels than the competing radiators, and really only has to worry about the Corsair H110 and Kraken X60 beating it. Both of those are much harder to fit into most cases, too, a problem the Swiftech H220 doesn't have.
> 
> corsair and nzxt are only winning because of their noisy (and totally unusable) fans.
> let's be honest: most users who buy the corsair or nzxt (or any other asetek/coolit kit) throw away the fans without a second thought.


I posted it in another thread, but I'll post it again here.

The entire review is cast into doubt because of two results. First, there is no way that the H110 beats the Kraken X60. It is physically impossible for the unit with a fan with a lower CFM and less static pressure to beat a unit with better fans when they use the same block, same pump, same radiator, and same diameter tubing. Just look at the OC3D review of the H110 vs Kraken X60 vs H100 vs H100i vs H80 vs H80i and the HiTechLegion review of the X60 vs H220 vs H100. Both of those reviews cast serious doubt on the H110 and X60 numbers and the H220 results at Anandtech.

Even Corsair George said the X60 should beat the H110:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorsairGeorge*
> 
> The X60 will outperform the H110 because NZXT has 2000 RPM fans on theirs and ours are 1500 RPM.
> 
> With the same fans the performance is identical.


Secondly, the H100i vs H80i results are way off and quite ridiculous. If you look at the HardwareCanucks, MadShrimps, KitGuru, and OC3D reviews, you can clearly see the H100i beating the H80i in all the reviews.

Even Corsair George said those results should not happen:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorsairGeorge*
> 
> (by the way - something was up with the Anandtech H100i unit - we've never, ever seen the H80i outperform the H100i so consistently. There's some variance possibilities - if you test 50 H100is, you'll see performance variance between them based on component variance and manufacturing - so my guess is he got a really good H80i and an H100i towards the bottom of the bell curve.)


I have no doubt the performance between the H220 and the 280mm CLCs is close, but the Anandtech review has some major issues with it. Since those results are so far off from what every other reputable reviewer is showing, you have to take them with a massive grain of salt.


----------



## MotO

Anandtech is a proven and certified shill. Everybody needs to ignore that review.


----------



## Caos

release date?


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cravinmild*
> 
> Have you guys strapped this to a gpu yet. If so what were your results. I would like to pick one up when they launch-mid feb?. I like the idea of expanding and adding parts to the loop, I see value with that feature.


XCPUS added one GTX 680 to the loop. http://www.xcpus.com/reviews/swiftech-h220-with-gpu-loop-added


----------



## JackieTran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> XCPUS added one GTX 680 to the loop. http://www.xcpus.com/reviews/swiftech-h220-with-gpu-loop-added


That's a good point!

If we were to add additional things in the loop, is it okay to to reuse the coolant and add distilled water? Or do you need a fresh supply of coolant


----------



## Oranuro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyk20z3*
> 
> Logitech is next lol


LOL. Wouldn't surprise me.


----------



## os2wiz

Regarding Anand's test integrity: There cpu review for Vishera was tremendously biased and unscientific. I pointed out all the flaws in the testing applications and how they were skewed to produce a better Intel result. The result was I was banned from their site.


----------



## sherlock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Regarding Anand's test integrity: There cpu review for Vishera was tremendously biased and unscientific. I pointed out all the flaws in the testing applications and how they were skewed to produce a better Intel result. The result was I was banned from their site.


What's your user name there and does this post still exist? I want to see it.

Is it this by chance:
Quote:


> I looked over the tests this character devised. ONly a few were multithreaded. Tom's Hardware had a very through testing procedure , explaining eacg application and what it showed about the architecture of the various cpus being compared. They were very balanced in single threaded apps and multithreaded apps. They did NOT do a lot of synthetic benchmarks because many of them are skewed in a prejudicial way. He also used win zip , photoshop cs5, video editing software, etc. Games were not all single thread shoot-em-ups, they were a collection of widely diverse games.. The FX-8350 came out ahead of not only the I5 3450 but also the I5-3570. He had some criticisms of course , but he said it was the best bang for the buck in the $200 price space. This review was shallow and meaningless done by somebody who either is lazy or on a mission to discredit. By the way The FX-8350 had the highest score on win zip bettering even the I7 3770. This reviewer owes us a well-designed retest and apology for a bunch of misleading garbage.


----------



## Davron

I'm looking at all of this and the biggest thing that I'm taking from it is that Swiftech did the most amazing thing by making their own pump. My real question is if Gabe, Stephen and crew will decide to market an x2 variant of this new pump on its own. I know they showed the pump performing with 2 additional radiators and 2 gpu blocks, but still. I've got a spare computer that I'm likely going to put this in when I can get it easily. I sure hope that microcenter gets their stock quick.


----------



## ivanlabrie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Davron*
> 
> I'm looking at all of this and the biggest thing that I'm taking from it is that Swiftech did the most amazing thing by making their own pump. My real question is if Gabe, Stephen and crew will decide to market an x2 variant of this new pump on its own. I know they showed the pump performing with 2 additional radiators and 2 gpu blocks, but still. I've got a spare computer that I'm likely going to put this in when I can get it easily. I sure hope that microcenter gets their stock quick.


Yeah, I'd go with it, if it's cheaper than the 35x/waterblock combos they currently sell...I'm only put off by the QP rad really. (I wanted XP snif)


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> XCPUS added one GTX 680 to the loop. http://www.xcpus.com/reviews/swiftech-h220-with-gpu-loop-added


Uh..

Did anyone notice in XCPUS's original review of the H220 that the fans were facing in completely the wrong direction? Case in point:



I hope that's not how this was tested. He does seem to have corrected the orientation in the "ADD THE GPU" review, but the way they put it together just seems so inefficient.. I dunno what to think about it all.


----------



## Faithh

Are the backplate brackets of the H220 exactly the same as the H100i?


----------



## prava

Let's just wait for Martin to do his thingy







I told you long time ago that this sort of products can only be tested PERFECTLY, or else you have a disaster. Let's test them on a bench to see which one is #1, all the other thing is meaningless. Yeah, sure, we could also test them inside a case... but that is also pointless because every single case out there is different and, thus products performance will differ. And thus why the only reason to test heatsinks and similar cooling related stuff is to do it in a test bench.

*To Swiftech's Staff:*

The small pwm board you include seems to only have one out to the motherboard pwm. Does it mean that you have to control both the fan's AND the pump in % by the same pwm? I'm asking it because if you have the system on 100% I bet the pump is far more noisier than the fans (3k rpm vs... 2k rpm).


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> The small pwm board you include seems to only have one out to the motherboard pwm. Does it mean that you have to control both the fan's AND the pump in % by the same pwm? I'm asking it because if you have the system on 100% I bet the pump is far more noisier than the fans (3k rpm vs... 2k rpm).


They've said that you can attach the pump to one motherboard header and the splitter to another so you can control the pump and fans separately.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Let's just wait for Martin to do his thingy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I told you long time ago that this sort of products can only be tested PERFECTLY, or else you have a disaster. Let's test them on a bench to see which one is #1, all the other thing is meaningless. Yeah, sure, we could also test them inside a case... but that is also pointless because every single case out there is different and, thus products performance will differ. And thus why the only reason to test heatsinks and similar cooling related stuff is to do it in a test bench.
> 
> *To Swiftech's Staff:*
> 
> The small pwm board you include seems to only have one out to the motherboard pwm. Does it mean that you have to control both the fan's AND the pump in % by the same pwm? I'm asking it because if you have the system on 100% I bet the pump is far more noisier than the fans (3k rpm vs... 2k rpm).


I disagree with testing them on an open bench being accurate. Certain radiators will respond to air conditions very differently. If anything, you should consider a wide variety of tests, and look at the one that most similarly represents your own. However, I do agree that doing it as scientifically as possible is a good thing, and Martin is one of the best at getting as much data as possible and making it as fair as possible.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> I disagree with testing them on an open bench being accurate. Certain radiators will respond to air conditions very differently. If anything, you should consider a wide variety of tests, and look at the one that most similarly represents your own. However, I do agree that doing it as scientifically as possible is a good thing, and Martin is one of the best at getting as much data as possible and making it as fair as possible.


My point is: what case shall we test, knowing that its impossible to test them all? Air configurations inside a case will vary the performance of all kits... and, thus, why the simple approach should be taken and all the kits should be tested in a bench-table. Otherwise, the review will only be useful to those who have the exact same case as the reviewer... and, still, we won't know who is the top dog in a "perfect" environment.


----------



## hermit1007

120mm or 80mm x2 version of this cooler would be dream come true.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> My point is: what case shall we test, knowing that its impossible to test them all? Air configurations inside a case will vary the performance of all kits... and, thus, why the simple approach should be taken and all the kits should be tested in a bench-table. Otherwise, the review will only be useful to those who have the exact same case as the reviewer... and, still, we won't know who is the top dog in a "perfect" environment.


What makes you think an open bench is any more fair than a case? It still is a condition that isn't the same as your own case. There is no "perfect" environment, as everyone has a little bit different environment. As long as all tests are done on the same bench or case, comparisons are fair. A table is a perfectly valid test as well. Certain meshes may impact air for fans and radiators different than others. A silverstone case is going to be pretty different than a corsair case. Which is pretty much my point, reviewers should choose which platform they want to test on, and hopefully we have enough trustworthy reviewers that someone can find a test that somewhat compares to their own setup.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> *To Swiftech's Staff:*
> 
> The small pwm board you include seems to only have one out to the motherboard pwm. Does it mean that you have to control both the fan's AND the pump in % by the same pwm? I'm asking it because if you have the system on 100% I bet the pump is far more noisier than the fans (3k rpm vs... 2k rpm).


It is a splitter, so any PWM device connected to the splitter will effectively at the same duty cycle that the motherboard is providing.

we designed the pump ourselves and actually tuned it down to the speed we wanted. And our requirement was: maximum pump power at a noise level lower than the fans at every single PWM duty cycle. So the pump remains quieter than the fans (somewhat still a subjective manner since they don't have the same operating frequencies)


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Davron*
> 
> I'm looking at all of this and the biggest thing that I'm taking from it is that Swiftech did the most amazing thing by making their own pump. My real question is if Gabe, Stephen and crew will decide to market an x2 variant of this new pump on its own. I know they showed the pump performing with 2 additional radiators and 2 gpu blocks, but still. I've got a spare computer that I'm likely going to put this in when I can get it easily. I sure hope that microcenter gets their stock quick.


we've designed the pump from scratch and as mentioned in many other pumps we defined our specifications.
One version of the pump used on the H220 had actually over 5mH2O of static pressure (running over 4,500 RPM).
Yes we plan on having this as a stand-alone LC pump, but not necessarily with the specifications used in H220. It will most likely have more hydraulic power.


----------



## sikkly

So, now that we are in February do you guys have a more exact release date, or is it still just the end of February? And should everyone be getting this around the same time, or can people in North America expect this a little later than Europeans? Just looking for more info so I can plan my budget out, pretty excited to make the switch to water(and proper water at that), but gotta have the money to do so first!


----------



## cravinmild

So there is still additional performance to be had because you turned the pump down. Are we able to "tune the pump UP" for extra performance after purchase. I don't mind extra noise while benching..... every other fan is screaming anyways so extra noise is not an issue. Sorry if this has been asked.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cravinmild*
> 
> So there is still additional performance to be had because you turned the pump down. Are we able to "tune the pump UP" for extra performance after purchase. I don't mind extra noise while benching..... every other fan is screaming anyways so extra noise is not an issue. Sorry if this has been asked.


No, there is no way to "tune the pump UP" without voiding the warranty. It's been designed to work to a specific range so that it would appeal to the widest market segment. I hope this answers your question.


----------



## yoi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> No, there is no way to "tune the pump UP" without voiding the warranty. It's been *designed* to work to a specific range so that it would appeal to the widest market segment. I hope this answers your question.


...so , you guys know the limit of the pump ? what if we "pump" the volt ? how much can handle before going to failure ?

and another thing , is the pump/block will be sold separately ?


----------



## cravinmild

Checks forum name.... Yip, OCN









I give that cooler five seconds and it will be overvolted and a club started to help others do it too lol.

Thanks it did answer my question


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> So, now that we are in February do you guys have a more exact release date, or is it still just the end of February? And should everyone be getting this around the same time, or can people in North America expect this a little later than Europeans? Just looking for more info so I can plan my budget out, pretty excited to make the switch to water(and proper water at that), but gotta have the money to do so first!


we are still on track with our original approximate ETA of mid to end of February.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cravinmild*
> 
> So there is still additional performance to be had because you turned the pump down. Are we able to "tune the pump UP" for extra performance after purchase. I don't mind extra noise while benching..... every other fan is screaming anyways so extra noise is not an issue. Sorry if this has been asked.


Like Bryan said, there is no way to do that. There is no access to the PCB - and even there was, the motor winding's on the stronger model are different.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yoi*
> 
> ...so , you guys know the limit of the pump ? what if we "pump" the volt ? how much can handle before going to failure ?
> 
> and another thing , is the pump/block will be sold separately ?


nominal voltage is 12V, we recommend 12V +/- 10% otherwise there is a risk of damaging the electronics.

At least initially it won't be available by itself. That being said, especially if you are interested in more pumping power you should look at APD2 which is available right now (it's got the same thermals and hydraulics)


----------



## bobsaget541

Can you give a rough estimate as to how long after the h220 releases that there will be a 360mm version? Trying to decide if I should wait a while or get the h220 ASAP. Thanks!


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget541*
> 
> Can you give a rough estimate as to how long after the h220 releases that there will be a 360mm version? Trying to decide if I should wait a while or get the h220 ASAP. Thanks!


After compiling all of the data, and going over all our projected estimates, I can say with absolute confidence.......soon.


----------



## navit




----------



## bobsaget541

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> After compiling all of the data, and going over all our projected estimates, I can say with absolute confidence.......soon.


Excellent, then wait I will! Is it fair to say the price will be below $200? I want to make sure to set enough aside. ?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget541*
> 
> Excellent, then wait I will! Is it fair to say the price will be below $200? I want to make sure to set enough aside. ?


I think that would be fair to say. We want to keep the pricing as competitive against similar types of kits as possible.


----------



## bobsaget541

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I think that would be fair to say. We want to keep the pricing as competitive against similar types of kits as possible.


Awesome, thanks for the quick responses! Last question, will the h320 utilize the same pump as the h220, or will it need the higher power one I read about a few pages back?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget541*
> 
> Awesome, thanks for the quick responses! Last question, will the h320 utilize the same pump as the h220, or will it need the higher power one I read about a few pages back?


At this point in time, I really can't say. We are still in the development phase. Towards the end of that phase, but still in it.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> At this point in time, I really can't say. We are still in the development phase. Towards the end of that phase, but still in it.


Do you work for Swiftech, too? If so, you should have the title added in order to avoid confusion between members.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Do you work for Swiftech, too? If so, you should have the title added in order to avoid confusion between members.


Yes he does








probably just a matter of time before a Mod takes care of this


----------



## JackieTran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> If we were to add additional things in the loop, is it okay to to reuse the coolant and add distilled water? Or do you need a fresh supply of coolant


Bump


----------



## DMills

So my cheap case doesnt have any room for a 2x120 rad (barely even a 1x120), but I'm going to put some
1" feet & dremel out a hole in the bottom of my case to fit an H220.

We wants it, precious


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> Bump


Adding distilled water will dilute your coolant. While this should be ok I'd still recommend to go with a brand new supply of coolant.


----------



## Faithh

Stephenm when is the H320 and the H220 coming out?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faithh*
> 
> Stephenm when is the H320 and the H220 coming out?


The H220 will be out in the next couple of weeks or so and the H320 is still in development.


----------



## cravinmild

COME ONE COME ON DIE ALREADY H100, PAPY NEEDS A NEW COOLER. serious though I may need to gimp my current cooler to justify this purchase with the wife


----------



## ez12a

I check amazon every single day to see if there's a pre-order. I have a my money + amazon $50 gift card with swiftech's name on it!! I hope it's Amazon prime eligible so i can get it in 2 days


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cravinmild*
> 
> COME ONE COME ON DIE ALREADY H100, PAPY NEEDS A NEW COOLER. serious though I may need to gimp my current cooler to justify this purchase with the wife


You're not the only one that has had to use such drastic measures to justify the purchase of an upgrade.


----------



## AWC5004

I would love to have one of those 8 way PWM splitters.

Any chance of them being sold separately?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AWC5004*
> 
> I would love to have one of those 8 way PWM splitters.
> 
> Any chance of them being sold separately?


they'll be for sale very soon


----------



## Nightz2k

I'm another one that can't wait for this to release.

I know my case is just a mid-tower and _may not_ fit w/o modding a bit, but I'll try to make it work.







Possibly another case in near future along with more upgrades.


----------



## Ragsters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> The H220 will be out in the next couple of weeks or so and the H320 is still in development.


Saying that the H320 is in development doesn't give me confidence that it will be released soon after the H220. I guess its just how you interpret soon.


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ragsters*
> 
> Saying that the H320 is in development doesn't give me confidence that it will be released soon after the H220. I guess its just how you interpret soon.


they probably do not have an ETA on it, which leads to not having a date. I don't think swiftech wants to rush it, as they have to decide how strong the pump should be and any last minute changes. IIRC, the h220 may have a last minute change before its actually shipped out.


----------



## AWC5004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> they'll be for sale very soon


Excellent!


----------



## WALSRU

Was there any discussion on possibly selling the kit without the fans? I'm just going to stick with my Multiframes and fan controller.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> Was there any discussion on possibly selling the kit without the fans? I'm just going to stick with my Multiframes and fan controller.


We don't currently have any plans to sell this unit without fans.


----------



## navit

It would kind of defeat the whole AIO thing.


----------



## stephenm

Just to clarify about the release on the H320. We can't provide any date right now, development is done, the pump/wb used in the H320 is the same - if the pump can push a loop in an enthusiast loop (3 rads, 1 cpu, 2 gpu's) it obviously has no problem with a 320 rad.









H220 will be available at the end of the month as originally scheduled. H320 will come out asap, basically depending on the success of H220 at launch (i.e. how H220 will keep our factory busy)


----------



## kevindd992002

Any news on the compatibility with the HAF922?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Any news on the compatibility with the HAF922?


We haven't yet tested this kit in the HAF922. Keep checking back on our website because that's where we'll be updating which cases that we have tested with this kit.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> H320 will come out asap, basically depending on the success of H220 at launch (i.e. how H220 will keep our factory busy)


get it in the hands of more reviewers and it shall do as well as the Corsair units. I find that there arent enough definitive reviews out yet, and the only "big name" is anandtech which isnt the best of reviews of the H220.

all of the youtube videos of the H220 that came from reviewers have sub 1k hits. My broken h100i video has more hits than h220 videos from reviewers because they're not known. More reviews and hands on articles are needed.

do these people have units:
-hardware secrets
-benchmark reviews
-Hard OCP
-bit-tech
-Hexus


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> We haven't yet tested this kit in the HAF922. Keep checking back on our website because that's where we'll be updating which cases that we have tested with this kit.


Thanks.


----------



## justanoldman

Don't know if it matters to anyone, but if you have lapped your IHS, the H220 is not for you. It is apparently designed to work with a stock IHS which is usually warped and concave to one degree or another.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Don't know if it matters to anyone, but if you have lapped your IHS, the H220 is not for you. It is apparently designed to work with a stock IHS which is usually warped and concave to one degree or another.


Did I just speak with you in an email? And yes, he's correct. Gabe invented the bow that allows the cold plate to make optimal contact with the IHS.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Did I just speak with you in an email? And yes, he's correct. Gabe invented the bow that allows the cold plate to make optimal contact with the IHS.


Yep.
Any guess as to how much lapping will degrade performance, as in 1 or 2c, or more like 9 or 10c?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Yep.
> Any guess as to how much lapping will degrade performance, as in 1 or 2c, or more like 9 or 10c?


To be honest with you I really don't know. There are quite a few variables that can come into play with regards to how much of a degradation in performance that you'll get from lapping your cold plate or IHS.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Don't know if it matters to anyone, but if you have lapped your IHS, the H220 is not for you. It is apparently designed to work with a stock IHS which is usually warped and concave to one degree or another.


yes and no.

Yes because it's true that the mechanical contact of our blocks (not only H220) has been enhanced to comply even with the worst types of IHS

And no because it still works perfectly fine even on a lapped IHS. Lapping an IHS doesn't remove much material and there is more than enough force in our springs to compensate for IHS height variations.

Lastly (And I'm sorry for breaking anoyone's hope on IHS lapping), unless you lapped your IHS with your CPU installed in a socket, your actual IHS will no longer be flat once installed in its socket (yes there is that much force applied on the outer flange around the CPU..)


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> And no because it still works perfectly fine even on a lapped IHS. Lapping an IHS doesn't remove much material and there is more than enough force in our springs to compensate for IHS height variations.


Enough to compensate for no IHS, i.e. direct to die? Since Ivy won't go far very without removing it.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Enough to compensate for no IHS, i.e. direct to die? Since Ivy won't go far very without removing it.


If no IHS is used, the best way is to compensate by adding washers to the 4 mounting screws (washer thickness ~= thickness of the IHS)

I'm guessing that anyone who's willing to take the IHS off won't mind adding a few washers right?


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> If no IHS is used, the best way is to compensate by adding washers to the 4 mounting screws (washer thickness ~= thickness of the IHS)
> 
> I'm guessing that anyone who's willing to take the IHS off won't mind adding a few washers right?


Well I delidded two 3770k, so I would be willing to go two washers, any more would just be too much work.









Just kidding, thanks for all the help.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> *get it in the hands of more reviewers*


Yea, I'll review it for you in my Prodigy








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Just to clarify about the release on the H320. We can't provide any date right now, development is done, the pump/wb used in the H320 is the same - if the pump can push a loop in an enthusiast loop (3 rads, 1 cpu, 2 gpu's) it obviously has no problem with a 320 rad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> H220 will be available at the end of the month as originally scheduled. H320 will come out asap, basically depending on the success of H220 at launch (i.e. how H220 will keep our factory busy)


ShutUpAndTakeMyMoney.jpg

This is the perfect solution to my build, the ability to step up components as I need.


----------



## WarMacheen

Preorder locations besides Frozen?


----------



## twitchyzero

lapping your IHS = delidding your CPU?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WarMacheen*
> 
> Preorder locations besides Frozen?


I'm only aware of pre-orders from Frozen and NCIX but there may be more I don't know.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> lapping your IHS = delidding your CPU?


No. Lapping is using sand paper to even out the lid on the CPU. Delidding is removing the lid.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> lapping your IHS = delidding your CPU?


Not sure exactly what the question is, but the two have nothing to do with each other. You can lap a lidded or delidded chip. Ivy benefits greatly by delidding and using good tim.

But Intel's IHS are never flat, on the inside that touches the die or on the outside that touches your cooler. All the sudden, with Stephenm comment about the washers, I am excited to try the H220 direct to die, and forget the warped IHS.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> lapping your IHS = delidding your CPU?


its making sure the IHS is flat after you delid the chip by sanding down or otherwise removing excess material to make a flater surface for the cooler. Some people just replace their TIM, and put the top back on.

Like others said, you can also just leave the lid on and lap it.


----------



## JackieTran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Adding distilled water will dilute your coolant. While this should be ok I'd still recommend to go with a brand new supply of coolant.


How much water until a fresh supply is necessary?

1x 240mm rad's worth?


----------



## Avonosac

Stephen, I want to throw one of these in my bitfenix prodigy, and I want to add a GPU waterblock and an additional 220-qp rad with the same fans. What are equivalent fittings / tubing to keep things as close to the stock system as possible? I don't want to have compression fittings running on half the loop and the stock barbs on the rest. Also, where would we look to purchase those items. I'll likely go FCPU, but I want to check all of this before I pre-order as I just want it all sent to me as a package.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Stephen, I want to throw one of these in my bitfenix prodigy, and I want to add a GPU waterblock and an additional 220-qp rad with the same fans. What are equivalent fittings / tubing to keep things as close to the stock system as possible? I don't want to have compression fittings running on half the loop and the stock barbs on the rest. Also, where would we look to purchase those items. I'll likely go FCPU, but I want to check all of this before I pre-order as I just want it all sent to me as a package.


That is a good question. They need to set something up so you can easily order everything you need for another GPU or two, and another rad or two.


----------



## Caos

the h220 is going to sell on amazon? h80i I have a very impressive performance but led died and I am very disappointed, looking forward to the h220


----------



## twitchyzero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> its making sure the IHS is flat after you delid the chip by sanding down or otherwise removing excess material to make a flater surface for the cooler. Some people just replace their TIM, and put the top back on.
> 
> Like others said, you can also just leave the lid on and lap it.


thanks...I'm a huge noob when it comes to OC techniques

so one can delid their IVB CPU...replace the TIM and still use the H220 just fine, correct?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Stephen, I want to throw one of these in my bitfenix prodigy, and I want to add a GPU waterblock and an additional 220-qp rad with the same fans. What are equivalent fittings / tubing to keep things as close to the stock system as possible? I don't want to have compression fittings running on half the loop and the stock barbs on the rest. Also, where would we look to purchase those items. I'll likely go FCPU, but I want to check all of this before I pre-order as I just want it all sent to me as a package.


The fittings will be closest to our 3/8 x 5/8 compression fittings and the same tubing will also be sold by us around the same time that we begin shipping the H220.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> thanks...I'm a huge noob when it comes to OC techniques
> 
> so one can delid their IVB CPU...replace the TIM and still use the H220 just fine, correct?


Yes. But I would not delid unless you can afford a new chip if you make a mistake in the process.


----------



## WALSRU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> That is a good question. They need to set something up so you can easily order everything you need for another GPU or two, and another rad or two.


I, for one would appreciate this. I'm considering ordering H220, a second radiator, and a hydrocopper GPU all at the same time. It will be my first experience with true WC. Halp!


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Yes. But I would not delid unless you can afford a new chip if you make a mistake in the process.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> I, for one would appreciate this. I'm considering ordering H220, a second radiator, and a hydrocopper GPU all at the same time. It will be my first experience with true WC. Halp!


Exactly what my question was about. I'm going to put this thing in with a second rad right off the bat, and either a 690 with a waterblock or the new titan if a waterblock comes out soon enough, and I would very much like this all to come at once.


----------



## fatlardo

Noob here, what does a 2nd rad really do to help?


----------



## bobsaget541

Is the MCW82 the only swiftech water block compatible with a gtx 680 pcb? I am also considering adding to the loop immediately. Thanks!


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fatlardo*
> 
> Noob here, what does a 2nd rad really do to help?


The rad adds to the cooling capacity of the loop. It is the part(s) of the water cooling set up which actually distributes the heat out of the loop.


----------



## fatlardo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> The rad adds to the cooling capacity of the loop. It is the part(s) of the water cooling set up which actually distributes the heat out of the loop.


So we should get lower temps with a 2nd and even better if we use a 3rd rad? TIA!


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fatlardo*
> 
> So we should get lower temps with a 2nd and even better if we use a 3rd rad? TIA!


Short answer, yes. Longer answer.. its a case of diminishing returns, you need stronger pumps to make sure you can do 3 rads, but also you need to have more heat to distribute. The ambient temperature also has a lot to do with how much heat a loop can handle.

There are much better longer answers than that in the watercooling section of the boards, give the FAQs a look if you are curious!


----------



## bobsaget541

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Short answer, yes. Longer answer.. its a case of diminishing returns, you need stronger pumps to make sure you can do 3 rads, but also you need to have more heat to distribute. The ambient temperature also has a lot to do with how much heat a loop can handle.
> 
> There are much better longer answers than that in the watercooling section of the boards, give the FAQs a look if you are curious!


Going off this, if I want to run a 360 rad, 240 rad, and a gpu block (perhaps 2 if I ever sli) am I better to spend the extra dough now and get the apogee drive 2 kit? Thanks!


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget541*
> 
> Is the MCW82 the only swiftech water block compatible with a gtx 680 pcb? I am also considering adding to the loop immediately. Thanks!


Yes it is.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget541*
> 
> Going off this, if I want to run a 360 rad, 240 rad, and a gpu block (perhaps 2 if I ever sli) am I better to spend the extra dough now and get the apogee drive 2 kit? Thanks!


The Apogee Drive II used the MCP35x pump that is noisier than our in-house pump that we used for the H220. If you're going for a more silent system then I would recommend going with the H220. Pump performance is also similar.


----------



## bobsaget541

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> The Apogee Drive II used the MCP35x pump that is noisier than our in-house pump that we used for the H220. If you're going for a more silent system then I would recommend going with the H220. Pump performance is also similar.


Thank you for both responses! The support from you guys has been great!


----------



## bobsaget541

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> The Apogee Drive II used the MCP35x pump that is noisier than our in-house pump that we used for the H220. If you're going for a more silent system then I would recommend going with the H220. Pump performance is also similar.


Thank you for both responses! The support from you guys has been great!


----------



## Roadkill95

Hey guys, How much of a temperature difference would I see with a sandy-e cpu between this and the h20-220 water cooling kit or the XSPC raystorm RX360?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> Hey guys, How much of a temperature difference would I see with a sandy-e cpu between this and the h20-220 water cooling kit or the XSPC raystorm RX360?


on this CPU maybe ~2 C difference considering the bigger radiator on the XSPC kit, assuming similar CPU block performance (inside and independent tests)


----------



## Roadkill95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> on this CPU maybe ~2 C difference considering the bigger radiator on the XSPC kit, assuming similar CPU block performance (inside and independent tests)


Thanks Stephen







the XSPC will cost me 240 while this is only 140, I could probably get a much better motherboard or a graphics card with that extra money..


----------



## WALSRU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Exactly what my question was about. I'm going to put this thing in with a second rad right off the bat, and either a 690 with a waterblock or the new titan if a waterblock comes out soon enough, and I would very much like this all to come at once.


I'm thinking the same thing with the Titan. Would be nice to be able to throw a small rad in there so I can go Cpu>140>GPU>240>pump


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> I'm thinking the same thing with the Titan. Would be nice to be able to throw a small rad in there so I can go Cpu>140>GPU>240>pump


At which point we would both be sitting on almost identical systems in our white prodigies, lol.

EDIT: Eh.. at least similar systems. Though you had the i7.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> I'm thinking the same thing with the Titan. Would be nice to be able to throw a small rad in there so I can go Cpu>140>GPU>240>pump


Temps will equalize regardless of the order, so I would go with whatever order is a more tidy fit. You will see very little temperature difference by running a different order


----------



## WALSRU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Temps will equalize regardless of the order, so I would go with whatever order is a more tidy fit. You will see very little temperature difference by running a different order


Good to know, I haven't done my research yet, I just assumed.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> At which point we would both be sitting on almost identical systems in our white prodigies, lol.


You wish, I'm going acrylic soon!


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!















But really I do like my Prodigy, I just wanted to go smaller.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> Good to know, I haven't done my research yet, I just assumed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You wish, I'm going acrylic soon!
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But really I do like my Prodigy, I just wanted to go smaller.


Yea, My i5 and my 670 might just end up being the cards to finish my scratch mITX box, and just keep the titan and the i7 in the prodigy with the titan.

Mines in my log, I haven't finished my sketchup diagrams of it, but think very similar to compact splash as far as size goes, with a blastoise theme


----------



## bobsaget541

If down the road I want to add a 360mm rad as my top rad, and move the 240mm rad to the drive bays, which would I want to feed to the pump? Would it be problematic is both radiators have built in reservoirs? Sorry for my noobishness, this will be my first WC experience.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget541*
> 
> If down the road I want to add a 360mm rad as my top rad, and move the 240mm rad to the drive bays, which would I want to feed to the pump? Would it be problematic is both radiators have built in reservoirs? Sorry for my noobishness, this will be my first WC experience.


having multiple reservoirs is not a problem.
I would probably pull both waterblock and front bay rad outside and feed the pump directly from the 220, it would make filling up a little easier.


----------



## bobsaget541

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> having multiple reservoirs is not a problem.
> I would probably pull both waterblock and front bay rad outside and feed the pump directly from the 220, it would make filling up a little easier.


Thanks for the tip! I have the cooler master haf 932 so I was thinking I could add some fittings and tubing to connect the cases fill port to the 220 rad. If I do that what do you think would be the easiest way to drain the loop?


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget541*
> 
> Thanks for the tip! I have the cooler master haf 932 so I was thinking I could add some fittings and tubing to connect the cases fill port to the 220 rad. If I do that what do you think would be the easiest way to drain the loop?


a drain fitting on the GFX card, or lowest GFX card.


----------



## HaunteR

This is a 6W pump which is 5 times faster than the 100i pump, you can also take off the bolts to make it custom!


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HaunteR*
> 
> This is a 6W pump which is 5 times faster than the 100i pump, you can also take off the bolts to make it custom!


Take off the bolts?


----------



## thexshadow

I wonder if they are going to sell just the pump?


----------



## Dizz22r

They already said they would!You need to read the whole thread!


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> They already said they would!You need to read the whole thread!


Spare him the time because reading the whole thread would really take a long time looking for that information. He might have used the search button though.


----------



## CrazyHeaven

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Spare him the time because reading the whole thread would really take a long time looking for that information. He might have used the search button though.


Would love to have more opened minded people like this on OCN.

Me: This gaming news looks interesting I'll post it on OCN.
Them: Repost!
Me : Where?
Them: In software, 3 page back towards the middle with a different tittle because the source is different. Use search next time!
Me : But it was related to video games... >_>

Sorry, please don't let me get this thread off topic. I like the idea of the H220 though I'm considering going custom so the pump sold separately would interest me.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CrazyHeaven*
> 
> Sorry, please don't let me get this thread off topic. I like the idea of the H220 though I'm considering going custom so the pump sold separately would interest me.


This is something that we might do in the future if there is enough demand for them.


----------



## Avonosac

Maybe you guys could work out a purchase package, for the fittings, tubing, helix fans and second 240 rad and fittings necessary for a GPU block with some of your vendors or internally.

Reading the thread, and those interested in the expansion capabilities of this product all seem to be going along that route. Even if we aren't talking a discount, this 1 button click for everything I need for the 2 rad and gpu block loop would definitely interest consumers.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Maybe you guys could work out a purchase package, for the fittings, tubing, helix fans and second 240 rad and fittings necessary for a GPU block with some of your vendors or internally.
> 
> Reading the thread, and those interested in the expansion capabilities of this product all seem to be going along that route. Even if we aren't talking a discount, this 1 button click for everything I need for the 2 rad and gpu block loop would definitely interest consumers.


I am actually surprised that this is not already part of their plans. Anyone who knows a lot about water cooling is most likely going to go custom. So who is the market for the H220? Obviously people considering the Antec 920 or Corsair H100i (or something along those lines).

That market of people doesn't want to go to the trouble and expense of custom, but they like the expandability, otherwise they could save a lot of money since the H220 is a higher price point than the others. Since most people have at least one GPU to cool, I would assume H220 buyers would either be wanting to do that right away or in the future.

Based on that the only logical thing for the company and vendors to do is make it as simple as possible for people who are mostly likely not experienced in custom water to order what they need. Something easy where you enter what components you have and want to cool, and the website recommends the extra parts you need to expand your H220 to do that.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> I am actually surprised that this is not already part of their plans. Anyone who knows a lot about water cooling is most likely going to go custom. So who is the market for the H220? Obviously people considering the Antec 920 or Corsair H100i (or something along those lines).
> 
> That market of people doesn't want to go to the trouble and expense of custom, but they like the expandability, otherwise they could save a lot of money since the H220 is a higher price point than the others. Since most people have at least one GPU to cool, I would assume H220 buyers would either be wanting to do that right away or in the future.
> 
> Based on that the only logical thing for the company and vendors to do is make it as simple as possible for people who are mostly likely not experienced in custom water to order what they need. Something easy where you enter what components you have and want to cool, and the website recommends the extra parts you need to expand your H220 to do that.


This is something we will be considering once the product is released and we have a better idea of what the demand is going to be for various configurations or additions.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> I am actually surprised that this is not already part of their plans. Anyone who knows a lot about water cooling is most likely going to go custom. So who is the market for the H220? Obviously people considering the Antec 920 or Corsair H100i (or something along those lines).
> 
> That market of people doesn't want to go to the trouble and expense of custom, but they like the expandability, otherwise they could save a lot of money since the H220 is a higher price point than the others. Since most people have at least one GPU to cool, I would assume H220 buyers would either be wanting to do that right away or in the future.
> 
> Based on that the only logical thing for the company and vendors to do is make it as simple as possible for people who are mostly likely not experienced in custom water to order what they need. Something easy where you enter what components you have and want to cool, and the website recommends the extra parts you need to expand your H220 to do that.


I can see how it would appear as a bit of a "niche" offering, but for the option of expandability into the custom world, the training wheels set, would be a great way for a guided dive into water cooling. Personally the only thing I would want to add to the kit is the full cover block for my 670, otherwise I would want even the fittings for the block to be included.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> This is something we will be considering once the product is released and we have a better idea of what the demand is going to be for various configurations or additions.


ShutUpAndTakeMyMoney.jpg

That is why we brought it up here, I will be clicking day 1 when this product goes live. The package even just as an "ordering" package would have a lot of value.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> ShutUpAndTakeMyMoney.jpg
> That is why we brought it up here, I will be clicking day 1 when this product goes live. The package even just as an "ordering" package would have a lot of value.


Trust me, I understand where you're coming from and this is something that we certainly will be considering. This is a business and therefore before making any kinds of decisions like that we first have to have a more concrete idea of what the demand is going to be. Once the product is released and we can actually see what the demand is, then we'll start to look at what other options we might add for those that would be so inclined.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Trust me, I understand where you're coming from and this is something that we certainly will be considering. This is a business and therefore before making any kinds of decisions like that we first have to have a more concrete idea of what the demand is going to be. Once the product is released and we can actually see what the demand is, then we'll start to look at what other options we might add for those that would be so inclined.


I understand.
From a marketing point of view, since you are dealing with a market segment that is not very experienced in water cooling, you want to "up sell" them. They want you to tell them to buy the expansion kit and how great it is.

Some guy says: hey I will go buy an H220, I heard its good. He goes to a webpage to order, and that page asks if he has any video cards. It then proceeds to tell him he can add on whatever kit he needs, and if he wants a real drop in temps to add another radiator to the package as well. He then thinks, wow I can cool my GPU with just these extra parts, and look how good my temps will be, I should order this.

I completely understand what you are saying about waiting to see what the demand is, but you can create demand in this instance. It is somewhat illogical to pay more for the H220 if you never plan to use its expansion capability, therefore you can exploit that fact and talk people into expanding via a website. Just my random two cents of info.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> This is something we will be considering once the product is released and we have a better idea of what the demand is going to be for various configurations or additions.


By the way it may be useful to you to collect a database here and on other key sites of how many people want the H320 with its larger radiator as opposed to the H220. Just an idea. I want a H320 as for now I want the even lower cpu temps from the 360mm radiator than a 240 radiator offers.


----------



## os2wiz

This is embarrassing; one mouse click for submit leads to three identical posts. Is there any way I can change my mouse settings to avoid this? It happens also when I delete an email. It takes one or two others with it half the time.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> I understand.
> From a marketing point of view, since you are dealing with a market segment that is not very experienced in water cooling, you want to "up sell" them. They want you to tell them to buy the expansion kit and how great it is.
> 
> Some guy says: hey I will go buy an H220, I heard its good. He goes to a webpage to order, and that page asks if he has any video cards. It then proceeds to tell him he can add on whatever kit he needs, and if he wants a real drop in temps to add another radiator to the package as well. He then thinks, wow I can cool my GPU with just these extra parts, and look how good my temps will be, I should order this.
> 
> I completely understand what you are saying about waiting to see what the demand is, but you can create demand in this instance. It is somewhat illogical to pay more for the H220 if you never plan to use its expansion capability, therefore you can exploit that fact and talk people into expanding via a website. Just my random two cents of info.


The H220 isn't just going to appeal to those that want the ability to expand though. In all of our testing it also performs better than the other AIO kits that are currently on the market. This is particularly true at lower fan speeds and therefore it will also appeal to those that want a more quiet rig. Its plug-and-play value is very good even though it's being offered at a higher price-point. I would assume that if we don't actually offer combination configurations on our own website our retail partners most likely will. As a water cooling enthusiast myself I fully agree that this is a great "training wheels" type of product. It's very similar to the kit that actually got me started about 7 years ago. My first water cooling kit was the original Apogee Drive unit with a 120 rad/reservoir that I purchased separately. I loved that kit and the buddy that I sold it to is still using it.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> I understand.
> From a marketing point of view, since you are dealing with a market segment that is not very experienced in water cooling, you want to "up sell" them. They want you to tell them to buy the expansion kit and how great it is.
> 
> Some guy says: hey I will go buy an H220, I heard its good. He goes to a webpage to order, and that page asks if he has any video cards. It then proceeds to tell him he can add on whatever kit he needs, and if he wants a real drop in temps to add another radiator to the package as well. He then thinks, wow I can cool my GPU with just these extra parts, and look how good my temps will be, I should order this.
> 
> I completely understand what you are saying about waiting to see what the demand is, but you can create demand in this instance. It is somewhat illogical to pay more for the H220 if you never plan to use its expansion capability, therefore you can exploit that fact and talk people into expanding via a website. Just my random two cents of info.


Excactly, from a more common perspective..Dining. Would you like to hear about our specials today? Upsell everything!

There are two reasons I want to do this, I hate having part of my order arrive and be useless until everything arrives. Second it takes the guessing game out of the upgrade portion of it, since its being marketed as expandable. The reason I'm getting this is its a more affordable version of AD2, without the huge headroom of motor RPM, which I will never utilize. Its the perfect product combination for my prodigy.

I understand you don't want to box things up together without having a good idea of market demand for the items in the package. What I was suggesting for release was more of a shopping list package, put this, and this and this and this together, Bam you have another QP with helix and the right barbs and tubing, all ready to plug into the GPU block of your choice. This could be as simple as a button to add all the parts to your shopping cart for you, where you can then review your selection.

Not trying to belabor the point, just saying I am working 15hr days right now and I don't have time to do the research, while others just might not want to do it.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Excactly, from a more common perspective..Dining. Would you like to hear about our specials today? Upsell everything!
> 
> There are two reasons I want to do this, I hate having part of my order arrive and be useless until everything arrives. Second it takes the guessing game out of the upgrade portion of it, since its being marketed as expandable. The reason I'm getting this is its a more affordable version of AD2, without the huge headroom of motor RPM, which I will never utilize. Its the perfect product combination for my prodigy.
> 
> I understand you don't want to box things up together without having a good idea of market demand for the items in the package. What I was suggesting for release was more of a shopping list package, put this, and this and this and this together, Bam you have another QP with helix and the right barbs and tubing, all ready to plug into the GPU block of your choice.
> 
> Not trying to berate the point, just saying I am working 15hr days right now and I don't have time to do the research, while others just might not want to do it.


If you look on our website we already pretty much do this with all of our products under related items. This gives the customer the ability to see what other items that they might want to add to their purchase in order to better complete their project and improve their cooling performance. Does this satisfy what you're talking about?


----------



## shellbunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Excactly, from a more common perspective..Dining. Would you like to hear about our specials today? Upsell everything!
> 
> There are two reasons I want to do this, I hate having part of my order arrive and be useless until everything arrives. Second it takes the guessing game out of the upgrade portion of it, since its being marketed as expandable. The reason I'm getting this is its a more affordable version of AD2, without the huge headroom of motor RPM, which I will never utilize. Its the perfect product combination for my prodigy.
> 
> I understand you don't want to box things up together without having a good idea of market demand for the items in the package. What I was suggesting for release was more of a shopping list package, put this, and this and this and this together, Bam you have another QP with helix and the right barbs and tubing, all ready to plug into the GPU block of your choice. This could be as simple as a button to add all the parts to your shopping cart for you, where you can then review your selection.
> 
> Not trying to belabor the point, just saying I am working 15hr days right now and I don't have time to do the research, while others just might not want to do it.


I completely agree. It would be very helpful.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> If you look on our website we already pretty much do this with all of our products under related items. This gives the customer the ability to see what other items that they might want to add to their purchase in order to better complete their project and improve their cooling performance. Does this satisfy what you're talking about?


Sorry for the slight edits to my post, yes this comes *close-ish* to what I am talking about, as a release solution. But, it would be probably 15-20 minutes worth of clicking around and looking, just to guess if I get the right stuff, if one of those options was release bundle (I'll say bundle not package so as not to confuse prepackaged with a sales bundle) which included 2 helixes, the fittings, and the tubing which is used and the QP rad (same as original).

When you start getting into ordering fittings / tubing with differing ID/OD people will start getting the eyes glazed over look.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Sorry for the slight edits to my post, yes this comes *close-ish* to what I am talking about, as a release solution. But, it would be probably 15-20 minutes worth of clicking around and looking, just to guess if I get the right stuff, if one of those options was release bundle (I'll say bundle not package so as not to confuse prepackaged with a sales bundle) which included 2 helixes, the fittings, and the tubing which is used and the QP rad (same as original).
> 
> When you start getting into ordering fittings / tubing with differing ID/OD people will start getting the eyes glazed over look.


OK, I see what you mean. You mean that we should have ready-made options available right on the same product page? You're saying that this would help customers to be able to select the right fittings and other parts because they're already matched with the H220. Am I understanding you correctly? If I am you have to understand the amount of time and work that would have to go into putting that together on our website and being able to maintain the stock of the separate items in order to keep them available to purchase on our website. I'm not saying that it can't or won't be done. It will have to depend on what we determine the demand to be and whether or not that demand warrants the amount of time, effort, and costs involved.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> OK, I see what you mean. You mean that we should have ready-made options available right on the same product page? You're saying that this would help customers to be able to select the right fittings and other parts because they're already matched with the H220. Am I understanding you correctly? If I am you have to understand the amount of time and work that would have to go into putting that together on our website and being able to maintain the stock of the separate items in order to keep them available to purchase on our website. I'm not saying that it can't or won't be done. It will have to depend on what we determine the demand to be and whether or not that demand warrants the amount of time, effort, and costs involved.


Heh.. I'm a web developer.. I do that kinda stuff for a living.

That is why I was just saying, an easy dirty solution would be an option to just add that all to the cart, and not just as an actual product. The rest of overhead of the product maintenance is already going to happen as it was previously stated the tubing is going to be put on sale, and fittings were already on sale.

I was assuming you kept normal stock of these items for sales from your site, if that isn't the case then the ease and convenience of the solution goes down rapidly.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Heh.. I'm a web developer.. I do that kinda stuff for a living.
> 
> That is why I was just saying, an easy dirty solution would be an option to just add that all to the cart, and not just as an actual product. The rest of overhead of the product maintenance is already going to happen as it was previously stated the tubing is going to be put on sale, and fittings were already on sale.
> 
> I was assuming you kept normal stock of these items for sales from your site, if that isn't the case then the ease and convenience of the solution goes down rapidly.


Of course we keep normal stock of these items, but the problem arises when we suddenly have to support packages that are offered on our website with these same items. I have a better understanding now of what you're talking about. You're not saying that we need to necessarily have pre-packaged add-ons, but that we should give detailed suggestions about optional configurations and the items that would need to be purchased for those configurations. This is a more doable solution than the one that I thought you were suggesting. Once the product is actually released this will definitely be something that we'll look at doing so that our customers will have some clear ideas about what they'll need to upgrade the kit.


----------



## Roadkill95

Any chance you'll be shipping these bad boys with white tubing?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> Any chance you'll be shipping these bad boys with white tubing?


As of right now we don't have any plans to ship these with white tubing. We will be offering different color options separately though through our website about the same time that the H220 is released.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Of course we keep normal stock of these items, but the problem arises when we suddenly have to support packages that are offered on our website with these same items. I have a better understanding now of what you're talking about. You're not saying that we need to necessarily have pre-packaged add-ons, but that we should give detailed suggestions about optional configurations and the items that would need to be purchased for those configurations. This is a more doable solution than the one that I thought you were suggesting. Once the product is actually released this will definitely be something that we'll look at doing so that our customers will have some clear ideas about what they'll need to upgrade the kit.


I think we are all on the same page now.

Ok, let me ask you this. I have a certain chip, and a certain video card. What exactly, in total, do I need to order in addition to the H220. More fittings, more tubing, GPU block, more liquid to fill it, do I need another radiator, will it fit in my case? I am not asking you right now, but how do you want people to figure that out? Do you want people to call and ask specifics?

I agree that some will spend 30% or 40% more money for the H220 vs the Antec or Corsair even if they will never expand. It appears to be a better, quieter product. My point is that the majority of your H220 customers will think, at least in the back of their mind, that expandability (even it happens at some indeterminate time in the future) helps justify the higher price point. Making that expandability as easy as possible for complete water cooling newbs is in your best interest.

I go to a website, say what GPU(s) I have, the site then lists all the extras I need to order. It will also suggest whether another rad or two is recommended, and what cases it will fit.


----------



## Roadkill95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> As of right now we don't have any plans to ship these with white tubing. We will be offering different color options separately though through our website about the same time that the H220 is released.


color options for the whole unit? so does that mean I could get a white block+rad


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Of course we keep normal stock of these items, but the problem arises when we suddenly have to support packages that are offered on our website with these same items. I have a better understanding now of what you're talking about. You're not saying that we need to necessarily have pre-packaged add-ons, but that we should give detailed suggestions about optional configurations and the items that would need to be purchased for those configurations. This is a more doable solution than the one that I thought you were suggesting. Once the product is actually released this will definitely be something that we'll look at doing so that our customers will have some clear ideas about what they'll need to upgrade the kit.


Sounds great, I know I'm responding a lot about this and I don't want to give you the impression I am in any way shape or form unhappy. The involvement of you and stephen and others on this boards, and with the community has sold me with you guys for this product. The product looks fantastic, and the customer feedback is exceptional. You all obviously know what you are doing, and I would be surprised if a similar option or solution had not been discussed already.

Keep up the good work, and I hope the ~270$ of my money you will get when this product is released goes to producing another similarly awesome product in the future.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> color options for the whole unit? so does that mean I could get a white block+rad


No, I was only talking about the tubing. We don't have any plans right now to make the pump or radiator in other color choices.


----------



## Roadkill95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> No, I was only talking about the tubing. We don't have any plans right now to make the pump or radiator in other color choices.


Oh ok, sounds good









But you should consider offering the pump/rad in different colors. People care about aesthetics and it could give you guys a nice step up from the competition..


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> I think we are all on the same page now.
> 
> Ok, let me ask you this. I have a certain chip, and a certain video card. What exactly, in total, do I need to order in addition to the H220. More fittings, more tubing, GPU block, more liquid to fill it, do I need another radiator, will it fit in my case? I am not asking you right now, but how do you want people to figure that out? Do you want people to call and ask specifics?
> 
> I agree that some will spend 30% or 40% more money for the H220 vs the Antec or Corsair even if they will never expand. It appears to be a better, quieter product. My point is that the majority of your H220 customers will think, at least in the back of their mind, that expandability (even it happens at some indeterminate time in the future) helps justify the higher price point. Making that expandability as easy as possible for complete water cooling newbs is in your best interest.
> 
> I go to a website, say what GPU(s) I have, the site then lists all the extras I need to order. It will also suggest whether another rad or two is recommended, and what cases it will fit.


In regards to your specific system it would be virtually impossible to produce a list of compatible options for your specific components. You have to remember that in terms of GPUs in particular the manufacturers often change the specifics of their PCB without notifying anyone and therefore rendering any specific option that we give a customer obsolete. This is a constant headache for us and I'm sure for our customers as well. I would suggest that for their specific configuration and hardware that they either call us directly or through the forum on our website. Right now that's about the best we can do because that's the best solution to receive real-time responses and answers.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> In regards to your specific system it would be virtually impossible to produce a list of compatible options for your specific components. You have to remember that in terms of GPUs in particular the manufacturers often change the specifics of their PCB without notifying anyone and therefore rendering any specific option that we give a customer obsolete. This is a constant headache for us and I'm sure for our customers as well. I would suggest that for their specific configuration and hardware that they either call us directly or through the forum on our website. Right now that's about the best we can do because that's the best solution to receive real-time responses and answers.


Ok. I would suggest the same thing then, with the single exception of what hardware that specific GPU needs. But if you guys assist in the inevitable owner's thread and case compatibility thread to come, that should do well to help people. Thanks for all the answers, I appreciate it - actually makes me want the product more. Good customer service can never be underestimated.

On a lighter note, am I the only one that is afraid this product may be a gateway drug that will make me want to eventually do a full (and expensive) custom loop?


----------



## Ragsters

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Ok. I would suggest the same thing then, with the single exception of what hardware that specific GPU needs. But if you guys assist in the inevitable owner's thread and case compatibility thread to come, that should do well to help people. Thanks for all the answers, I appreciate it - actually makes me want the product more. Good customer service can never be underestimated.
> 
> On a lighter note, am I the only one that is afraid this product may be a gateway drug that will make me want to eventually do a full (and expensive) custom loop?


Definitely not the only one.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> I think we are all on the same page now.
> 
> Ok, let me ask you this. I have a certain chip, and a certain video card. What exactly, in total, do I need to order in addition to the H220. More fittings, more tubing, GPU block, more liquid to fill it, do I need another radiator, will it fit in my case? I am not asking you right now, but how do you want people to figure that out? Do you want people to call and ask specifics?
> 
> I agree that some will spend 30% or 40% more money for the H220 vs the Antec or Corsair even if they will never expand. It appears to be a better, quieter product. My point is that the majority of your H220 customers will think, at least in the back of their mind, that expandability (even it happens at some indeterminate time in the future) helps justify the higher price point. Making that expandability as easy as possible for complete water cooling newbs is in your best interest.
> 
> I go to a website, say what GPU(s) I have, the site then lists all the extras I need to order. It will also suggest whether another rad or two is recommended, and what cases it will fit.


I think we'll probably end up packaging radiator upgrades with the right fittings, tubing and fans.
As for whether a second rad will fit a specific case, it will most likely have to figured out by the customer - we plan on keeping an updated list of compatible cases, but when it comes to adding a second rad, most cases would probably need some modifications (other than a few larger models).

Same thing will probably happen with the MCW82 (combined with tubing, fittings..)

Coolant will probably still remain a separate option, and same thing for other lengths and colors of tubing...


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> Oh ok, sounds good
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you should consider offering the pump/rad in different colors. People care about aesthetics and it could give you guys a nice step up from the competition..


We are looking at offering this kit with white tubing. As far as different colored pumps and radiators go though, I don't see that happening at this time. We would have to accommodate all of the major color options and due to the demand it just wouldn't be cost effective.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> On a lighter note, am I the only one that is afraid this product may be a gateway drug that will make me want to eventually do a full (and expensive) custom loop?


This is how we get you hooked. We start you off with a low-cost solution and the next thing you know you've got your entire case filled with water blocks, tubing, radiators and pumps! Hopefully ours of course.


----------



## Roadkill95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> We are looking at offering this kit with white tubing. As far as different colored pumps and radiators go though, I don't see that happening at this time. We would have to accommodate all of the major color options and due to the demand it just wouldn't be cost effective.


I understand. White tubing and I'll buy this over the Raystorm kit in a heartbeat.

Make it happen swiftech







I'd imagine a lot of people would like it with white tubing because it seems to be the trend these days.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> I understand. White tubing and I'll buy this over the Raystorm kit in a heartbeat.
> 
> Make it happen swiftech
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd imagine a lot of people would like it with white tubing because it seems to be the trend these days.


I was just telling Gabe that white cases have become incredibly popular lately and that's why we're looking to include a kit that has white tubing.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> I think we'll probably end up packaging radiator upgrades with the right fittings, tubing and fans.
> As for whether a second rad will fit a specific case, it will most likely have to figured out by the customer - we plan on keeping an updated list of compatible cases, but when it comes to adding a second rad, most cases would probably need some modifications (other than a few larger models).
> 
> Same thing will probably happen with the MCW82 (combined with tubing, fittings..)
> 
> Coolant will probably still remain a separate option, and same thing for other lengths and colors of tubing...


Great! The only thing slightly disheartening about this, is I want this kit as soon as it is released. Actualy, I want it now, so the potential delay









Regardless, I am sure when this upgrade kit does come out, it will be exactly what a user needs. It just doesn't sound like it pertains to me, as I will be ordering one as soon as you guys finally put the damn thing on your site









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> This is how we get you hooked. We start you off with a low-cost solution and the next thing you know you've got your entire case filled with water blocks, tubing, radiators and pumps! Hopefully ours of course.












I'm already making this low cost solution, not so low cost.


----------



## BramSLI1

I'm already making this low cost solution, not so low cost.[/quote]

Yes, but you have to admit that we've got you hooked. Gateway drug indeed.


----------



## WarMacheen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I was just telling Gabe that white cases have become incredibly popular lately and that's why we're looking to include a kit that has white tubing.


Thats great, if the black is the only option at launch, I'll be chaging the tubes to white anyway...and painting the radiator shroud...and maybe parts of the pump housing.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I'm already making this low cost solution, not so low cost.
> 
> Yes, but you have to admit that we've got you hooked. Gateway drug indeed.


I can almost see the smug look. I was looking for the right AIO setup to come along for the last 1-1.5 years. The fact is most custom kits were always too strong, or didn't include the right amount of user friendliness. Now you're providing me a kit I can throw on my CPU at day 1, and spend a weekend putting the rest of the loop together when I have the time. Its the perfect combo.


----------



## ez12a

white tubing would match my 600T SE perfectly! I wouldnt mind either one though (black or white versions).


----------



## fatlardo

Cmon white!!


----------



## Roadkill95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fatlardo*
> 
> Cmon white!!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> white tubing would match my 600T SE perfectly! I wouldnt mind either one though (black or white versions).


Yay









Let's show swiftech how much we want an h220 with white tubing !


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> Yay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let's show swiftech how much we want an h220 with white tubing !


This is definitely an option that we will offer. Whether or not it will be available at the initial launch is another matter. It was only today that I think Gabe started to consider it.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> I can almost see the smug look. I was looking for the right AIO setup to come along for the last 1-1.5 years. The fact is most custom kits were always too strong, or didn't include the right amount of user friendliness. Now you're providing me a kit I can throw on my CPU at day 1, and spend a weekend putting the rest of the loop together when I have the time. Its the perfect combo.


Is it that obvious?


----------



## Roadkill95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> This is definitely an option that we will offer. Whether or not it will be available at the initial launch is another matter. It was only today that I think Gabe started to consider it.


Would you charge extra for it? and would I be able to get one from 3rd party seller like amazon ( i have a gift card there). I don't mind not having it at launch( although it would be nice because a lot of people have been waiting for this for months).


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> Would you charge extra for it? and would I be able to get one from 3rd party seller like amazon ( i have a gift card there). I don't mind not having it at launch( although it would be nice because a lot of people have been waiting for this for months).


As far as 3rd party sellers like Amazon go that would be pretty much up to them, from my understanding. The kit with white tubing would be offered at the same price as the original kit. Being that it is already so close to the launch of this product it would be very difficult for us to have the white option available in time.


----------



## bobsaget541

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> As far as 3rd party sellers like Amazon go that would be pretty much up to them, from my understanding. The kit with white tubing would be offered at the same price as the original kit. Being that it is already so close to the launch of this product it would be very difficult for us to have the white option available in time.


What about upgrade options? Say one with gpu block or bigger rad? Is it too close to launch to see that available?


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Is it that obvious?


Painfully. And the suspense is killing us.

Side note, will you guys be putting up a pre-order, or should I go with FCPU?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobsaget541*
> 
> What about upgrade options? Say one with gpu block or bigger rad? Is it too close to launch to see that available?


There is no way that by launch this kit will have upgrade options included in the kit. I suggest that if you are looking for additions for your particular situation that you join the forum on our website so that I can give you direct feedback. I'm sure some of the members on this forum could also help you figure out what parts you might need.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Painfully. And the suspense is killing us.
> 
> Side note, will you guys be putting up a pre-order, or should I go with FCPU?


No we won't be taking pre-orders before launch. FCPU or NCIX would be the way to go. I don't know of any other online retailers that have it available for pre-order.


----------



## JackieTran

I have a few concerns regarding the coolant. Wouldn't it be better to use cler coolant?
1. Assuming you're going to use transparent coloured tubing and not the rubber one, won't the colour mismatches be unappealing?

2. If people want to upgrade in the future, won't the staining be hard to clean? Especially for novices.
Once they change coolants and stain their new one, you'll get alot of grief on your end


----------



## Tom Thumb

Yes!!!!! White tubing please!!!!!!


----------



## navit

I agree on the white tubing, looks like I am going to have to wait even longer now till that happens
.


----------



## WALSRU

White would be nice but I'll buy whatever is available at release and change the tubing out later...


----------



## Dudewitbow

i'm actually interested in the block/pump on its own(solves this issue ive been debating against myself for a while). hopefully you guys give enough support for the h220 to make this happen


----------



## Dizz22r

I have my money set a side for the H320! Hopefully i will be able to stick it in my case before the summer! Take my money NOW!


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navit*
> 
> I agree on the white tubing, looks like I am going to have to wait even longer now till that happens
> .


Ya, that's the part I don't like. Was planning on picking this up at release. But, if Swiftech is going to release a white tube version, I'm going to wait it out! Hopefully not to long!


----------



## Phelan

Forget waiting, just spend $30 on some new coolant and a few feet of 3/8x5/8" white tubing







.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Forget waiting, just spend $30 on some new coolant and a few feet of 3/8x5/8" white tubing
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Could do. But that's $30 I don't need to spend. I already spend a lot of money I don't need to spend!


----------



## Phelan

Time and money. You can't save both


----------



## msgclb

I was searching Xoxide for something that I didn't find but found the *Swiftech H220 Liquid Cooling System*.

I don't remember if Xoxide has been mention here but it looks like you can only put yourself on a notify list.


----------



## MotO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> Could do. But that's $30 I don't need to spend. I already spend a lot of money I don't need to spend!


Tubing is only a couple of bucks for a few feet.


----------



## Bruennis

May have already been mentioned but will the H220 fit in the Fractal Design Define R4 with Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H motherboard? I fear there may be clearance issues. From comparing the dimensions, the H100i radiator is a little lengthier but the H220 radiator is a little longer in terms of height and width.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bruennis*
> 
> May have already been mentioned but will the H220 fit in the Fractal Design Define R4 with Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H motherboard? I fear there may be clearance issues. From comparing the dimensions, the H100i radiator is a little lengthier but the H220 radiator is a little longer in terms of height and width.


If you already own both, it is best for you to do measurement yourself.


----------



## Bruennis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> If you already own both, it is best for you to do measurement yourself.


I don't have both. I meant by looking at the dimensions on paper. Their length x width x height. Here is an R4 with an H220


Notice that particular Gigabyte motherboard doesn't have heatsinks at the top whereas the Z77X-UD5H does


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MotO*
> 
> Tubing is only a couple of bucks for a few feet.


I have nowhere locally to buy tubing, so I'm looking a shipping as well, which probably cost more than the tubing!








I plan to use this as a AIO as well, don't want to bother draining, changing tubing, and filling again!


----------



## Dizz22r

I hope the h320 is around the same price as the RS 360 kit. Than it will definitely fly off the shelves!


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> I hope the h320 is around the same price as the RS 360 kit. Than it will definitely fly off the shelves!


Should be priced about the same $170, plus you need to build yourself. Which makes the H320 a nicer start for people, and allows you to save space from using the 5.25" bays.


----------



## kevindd992002

What is the difference between the 220 and 320?


----------



## MotO

Martin needs to give us the low down on if there is any pump noise.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MotO*
> 
> Martin needs to give us the low down on if there is any pump noise.


He already has in the review.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> What is the difference between the 220 and 320?


H220 is 240mm rad H320 is 360mm rad, which they are working on it after the release of the H220


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> H220 is 240mm rad H320 is 360mm rad, which they are working on it after the release of the H220


Thanks!

Sorry for not using the search button, I'm browsing OCN through my phone now.


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Sorry for not using the search button, I'm browsing OCN through my phone now.


while your here, just pick up on how swiftech names their units. the first number tends to be how many fans it can hold on one side(2 means 2, 3 means 3(double if in push/pull)) the 2 numbers after represent how big the fan is so:

120mm fans = #20
140mm fans =#40 etc.

320 in this case means 3 x 120mm radiator.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dudewitbow*
> 
> while your here, just pick up on how swiftech names their units. the first number tends to be how many fans it can hold on one side(2 means 2, 3 means 3(double if in push/pull)) the 2 numbers after represent how big the fan is so:
> 
> 120mm fans = #20
> 140mm fans =#40 etc.
> 
> 320 in this case means 3 x 120mm radiator.


Got it. Thanks.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dudewitbow*
> 
> while your here, just pick up on how swiftech names their units. the first number tends to be how many fans it can hold on one side(2 means 2, 3 means 3(double if in push/pull)) the 2 numbers after represent how big the fan is so:
> 
> 120mm fans = #20
> 140mm fans =#40 etc.
> 
> 320 in this case means 3 x 120mm radiator.


Got it. Thanks.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I was just telling Gabe that white cases have become incredibly popular lately and that's why we're looking to include a kit that has white tubing.


I despise white cases and white components we should have some choice other than white. Blue or red would go with most LED cases. White nauseates me so girly, girly.


----------



## Neo Zuko

I like this product a lot. Imagine if they had a whole range of sizes.


----------



## M3TAl

White with black is super sexy


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Should be priced about the same $170, plus you need to build yourself. Which makes the H320 a nicer start for people, and allows you to save space from using the 5.25" bays.


What do you mean you have to build yourself. It is pre filled like the H220 you have no more building required in H320 than H220 .That only applies to adding extra blocks or radiators which is an equal factor in both units. I suspect you were not being precise with your words.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> What do you mean you have to build yourself. It is pre filled like the H220 you have no more building required in H320 than H220 .That only applies to adding extra blocks or radiators which is an equal factor in both units. I suspect you were not being precise with your words.


You missed the whole point. If you read who I quoted, I was commenting on about the XSPC RS360, not the H320.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> I despise white cases and white components we should have some choice other than white. Blue or red would go with most LED cases. White nauseates me so girly, girly.


You may not like white cases or components, I tend to prefer black and red myself, but white does happen to be pretty popular right now.


----------



## Sickened1

I wanna just order this now! I hate waiting lol.


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> You may not like white cases or components, I tend to prefer black and red myself, but white does happen to be pretty popular right now.


tbh i would have went white if white PCB's were more common.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> I despise white cases and white components we should have some choice other than white. Blue or red would go with most LED cases. White nauseates me so girly, girly.


Then your just gonna hate what I plan on doing to my sons HAF 932 Black Edition when I switch cases with him to fit this bad boy into in a push/pull config!







Gotta go get me some white spray paint.


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Should be priced about the same $170, plus you need to build yourself. Which makes the H320 a nicer start for people, and allows you to save space from using the 5.25" bays.


Well we both don't work for swiftech. So, as far as putting a price on one of their units,It's really up to them. I just hope its around rs360 price to compete. As far as saving drive bays, it really comes down to opinion and space. I personally would prefer drive bay reservoir than the one mounted on the radiator. H320 being pre-filled and ready to install is the big ticket for me and a much quieter pump!

Maybe they can offer a drivebay reservoir down the line with the h320kit or h220?In the future?Just some food for thought!


----------



## MotO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> He already has in the review.
> H220 is 240mm rad H320 is 360mm rad, which they are working on it after the release of the H220


Ah I must of missed it. Sounds like the pump always stays below the fans so that's nice.


----------



## kevindd992002

Are all pumps virtually silent? Or is ot normal that you hear a low static noise when you put your ear next to it?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> Well we both don't work for swiftech. So, as far as putting a price on one of their units,It's really up to them. I just hope its around rs360 price to compete. As far as saving drive bays, it really comes down to opinion and space. I personally would prefer drive bay reservoir than the one mounted on the radiator. H320 being pre-filled and ready to install is the big ticket for me and a much quieter pump!
> 
> Maybe they can offer a drivebay reservoir down the line with the h320kit or h220?In the future?Just some food for thought!


Swiftech kits re about $30-40 more for the 360 over the 240 versions. Been that way for a long time now. There rads only are from $20-$30 from 240-->360.
Hence $170 is the ideal price point. I dont see Swiftech going nuts on pricing just for an extra 120mm size.


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Swiftech kits re about $30-40 more for the 360 over the 240 versions. Been that way for a long time now. There rads only are from $20-$30 from 240-->360.
> Hence $170 is the ideal price point. I dont see Swiftech going nuts on pricing just for an extra 120mm size.


LoL, you just keep repeating statements i have already said with out the price.Again, if its around rs360 price,I think they will sell like hot cakes!


----------



## Neo Zuko

I read somewhere that some want the H220 cpu block pump separate? So if thats the case, why not just buy a Apogee Drive 2? I don't see a market need for a separate H220 Pump, basically a slightly weaker Apogee Drive 2 style product without the all in one convenience. But that's just me.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> I read somewhere that some want the H220 cpu block pump separate? So if thats the case, why not just buy a Apogee Drive 2? I don't see a market need for a separate H220 Pump, basically a slightly weaker Apogee Drive 2 style product without the all in one convenience. But that's just me.


because the Apogee costs as much as this whole kit? The H220 pump/block by itself would probably be sub $100.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> I read somewhere that some want the H220 cpu block pump separate? So if thats the case, why not just buy a Apogee Drive 2? I don't see a market need for a separate H220 Pump, basically a slightly weaker Apogee Drive 2 style product without the all in one convenience. But that's just me.


They completely designed the pump on the H220, the apogee drive 2 was made by someone else. That is why the h220 pump has an extra 10,000 hours of durability on it. They personally make the h220 pump, and it is one of the reasons it took them so long to get to the AIO market. I'm guessing most people that want something like the h220/apogee drive 2 won't need a drive more powerful than the h220.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> Maybe they can offer a drivebay reservoir down the line with the h320kit or h220?In the future?Just some food for thought!


Being that the kit is expandable you can always add a bay reservoir and not use the one on the radiator if you don't need it.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Are all pumps virtually silent? Or is ot normal that you hear a low static noise when you put your ear next to it?


No, not all pumps are virtually silent. Most of the AIO pumps are though simply because they aren't very powerful. We designed our's to be both silent and powerful.


----------



## MeanBruce

For many enthusiasts, the audible characteristics of the fans on these CLCs becomes irrelevant since we plan on using our own favorite brand right out of the box. Yet the sound of the pump is a huge concern for those of us using our pc as a work rig desktop placement, right next to us, in a noise sensitive environment.

Really happy the Swiftech pump can be adjusted via motherboard software or a fan controller. Just hoping I can dial down the pump to a sound level equivalent of my current H100i (or lower) and achieve better cooling. I should really wait for the H320, since the new chassis that can handle a 360mm rad.

I have both a PWM single channel fan controller and a standard voltage/rheostat type controller, which would work best for these new pumps?

Thanks man.









Some really nice Sanyo-Denki SanAce S-Type Silent fans along with the Swiftech 360mm rad, results should be amazing.

Will the H320 become available in March or April?


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Being that the kit is expandable you can always add a bay reservoir and not use the one on the radiator if you don't need it.


That is true!I guess my point was if it will be possible to buy a bay reservoir as a kit with the h320. Subbing out the radiator reservoir for the other? Maybe not pre-filled because of installation issue with some cases.

Regardless of how its released, waiting on the h320 i hope sooner rather than later!


----------



## Roadkill95

Good news! I just bought a new laptop so i can't afford to build a new PC right now, which means that by the time I'd get around to building the H320 with white tubing should be out


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> I have both a PWM single channel fan controller and a standard voltage/rheostat type controller, which would work best for these new pumps?
> 
> Thanks man.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some really nice Sanyo-Denki SanAce S-Type Silent fans along with the Swiftech 360mm rad, results should be amazing.
> 
> Will the H320 become available in March or April?


The pump and fans are designed to work with PWM and the PWM splitter that they come with is really nice. It allows you connect it directly to your motherboard's PWM header. This allows you to use the included motherboard software to control and monitor everything without any additional software.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> You missed the whole point. If you read who I quoted, I was commenting on about the XSPC RS360, not the H320.


Sorry what was quoted in your post made no reference to that. I didn't read the post you replied to.


----------



## Sickened1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> The pump and fans are designed to work with PWM and the PWM splitter that they come with is really nice. It allows you connect it directly to your motherboard's PWM header. This allows you to use the included motherboard software to control and monitor everything without any additional software.


But can we use them with a pwm type fan controller such as http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811995075


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sickened1*
> 
> But can we use them with a pwm type fan controller such as http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811995075


I'll be honest, I've had mixed results using a supposedly PWM type fan controller to control anything other than PWM fans. My own PWM fan controller works just fine for controlling my fans, but it doesn't allow me any kind of control whatsoever on my PWM controllable pumps.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I'll be honest, I've had mixed results using a supposedly PWM type fan controller to control anything other than PWM fans. My own PWM fan controller works just fine for controlling my fans, but it doesn't allow me any kind of control whatsoever on my PWM controllable pumps.


your replies need more coupon codes for the swiftech store so I can pick up a few 140mm helix and 2 120mm helix pwms to have them ready for when the h220 releases


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> your replies need more coupon codes for the swiftech store so I can pick up a few 140mm helix and 2 120mm helix pwms to have them ready for when the h220 releases


Let me talk to Gabe on Monday morning so that I can work on that.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Let me talk to Gabe on Monday morning so that I can work on that.


thanks bro, I was about to order some fans on newegg but I'll wait, I really want some Helix all around (3x140mm, 4x120mm pwm total, including 2 from h220)for this:

http://imgur.com/a/Uv7Jg

and of course that tiny phanteks is going in storage once h220 releases.


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> thanks bro, I was about to order some fans on newegg but I'll wait, I really want some Helix all around (3x140mm, 4x120mm pwm total, including 2 from h220)for this:
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/Uv7Jg
> 
> and of course that tiny phanteks is going in storage once h220 releases.


offtopic: I was wondering wher ei recognize name, then reddit came to mind. Hows the phanteks single cooler, was gonna go pick one up before this well, showed up.

On topic: so to be sure, the pwn splitter goes connects to the cpu header, and everything connects to that splitter right?(ill never end up using the second pwm cpu header on my mobo)


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Let me talk to Gabe on Monday morning so that I can work on that.


Diggin' it









I'll be loving the 4 Helix on 2x 220QP's in my Prodigy as soon as this releases.. and with coupons codes even better


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> thanks bro, I was about to order some fans on newegg but I'll wait, I really want some Helix all around (3x140mm, 4x120mm pwm total, including 2 from h220)for this:
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/Uv7Jg
> 
> and of course that tiny phanteks is going in storage once h220 releases.


To be honest with you though our Helix fans are priced pretty competitively as it is. They're the only fans I'm using in my current rig and even when I have them set at maximum speed I can barely hear them. Gotta go, The Walking Dead is on in a few minutes.


----------



## M3TAl

So I was just on Amazon pre-ordering Steven Wilson's The Raven That Refused To Sing and needed some more things to get that free super saver shipping. Found some Swiftech Helixs (3-pin non PWM) for $5.99 (apparently from Dec. 28th to Feb. 9th they were 4.99) and ordered two to try out, oh and a fan filter.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> So I was just on Amazon pre-ordering Steven Wilson's The Raven That Refused To Sing and needed some more things to get that free super saver shipping. Found some Swiftech Helixs (3-pin non PWM) for $5.99 (apparently from Dec. 28th to Feb. 9th they were 4.99) and ordered two to try out, oh and a fan filter.


And you sure as hell need the cooling in houston. Suuuure glad I moved out of that oven. Everyday from may -june till october was like being in a sauna.


----------



## M3TAl

Ya I HATE the heat. And what's worse, my room is the hottest one! A/c on 79F in summers and my room sits around 83F. So much sweat







. Really curious how these will compare to the Cougar Vortex PWM's I'm using.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dudewitbow*
> 
> offtopic: I was wondering wher ei recognize name, then reddit came to mind. Hows the phanteks single cooler, was gonna go pick one up before this well, showed up.
> 
> On topic: so to be sure, the pwn splitter goes connects to the cpu header, and everything connects to that splitter right?(ill never end up using the second pwm cpu header on my mobo)


I had to pick it up because my Phanteks PH-TC14PE blocked my top pcie 3.0 slot on the x79-up4 and I'm just waiting for the h220 to release to get rid of it but it's a nice little cooler, I'd recommend at its price point.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> To be honest with you though our Helix fans are priced pretty competitively as it is. They're the only fans I'm using in my current rig and even when I have them set at maximum speed I can barely hear them. Gotta go, The Walking Dead is on in a few minutes.


Oh, yeah, they're great, trouble is shipping, I'm wishing newegg or amazon had all the one I needed so I didn't feel ripped off just with shipping. Enjoy the episode, it was gooooooooodddddd


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> Oh, yeah, they're great, trouble is shipping, I'm wishing newegg or amazon had all the one I needed so I didn't feel ripped off just with shipping. Enjoy the episode, it was gooooooooodddddd


Nail on head. This is why I want to get the H220, the tubing, extra rad, fans and fittings I need in 1 order. I have to get the GPU waterblock from EK, but i can handle 1 other order I guess.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> Ya I HATE the heat. And what's worse, my room is the hottest one! A/c on 79F in summers and my room sits around 83F. So much sweat
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Really curious how these will compare to the Cougar Vortex PWM's I'm using.


You really think your room is hot? I live in a tropical country and the room temp here is around 88F all year round without A/C! Can you imaging that?


----------



## M3TAl

No, I would die.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

I miss the cold in Racha-cha NY (once in awhile when I see purty snow, but I wouldn't want to shovel the muck after) but I wouldn't exchange it for beach weather for 8 out of the 12 months here in the PH.

It's actually more 84-86*F on average with the noon sun hitting between 87-89*F on average. I tell you what A/C is a life saver around here!


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> No, I would die.


Then be thankful for your temps








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> I miss the cold in Racha-cha NY (once in awhile when I see purty snow, but I wouldn't want to shovel the muck after) but I wouldn't exchange it for beach weather for 8 out of the 12 months here in the PH.
> 
> It's actually more 84-86*F on average with the noon sun hitting between 87-89*F on average. I tell you what A/C is a life saver around here!


Lol. I would exchange everything just to get lower ambient temps here. It's just one of the parameters that limits OC capability of our systems


----------



## MeanBruce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I'll be honest, I've had mixed results using a supposedly PWM type fan controller to control anything other than PWM fans. My own PWM fan controller works just fine for controlling my fans, but it doesn't allow me any kind of control whatsoever on my PWM controllable pumps.


I've used this Zalman PWM single channel fan controller with 3 Noctua NF-F12s using splitters, it works extremely well. Will it work equally as well with the Swiftech H220/320 pump? If I'm missing something here, please let me know.









http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=33319


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> I've used this Zalman PWM single channel fan controller with 3 Noctua NF-F12s using splitters, it works extremely well. Will it work equally as well with the Swiftech H220/320 pump? If I'm missing something here, please let me know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=33319


If it works well with your Noctua fans then it should work just as well with the pump on the H220. I was just saying that from my experience I've had spotty results using a PWM fan controller to control the speed of my pumps.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Are all pumps virtually silent? Or is ot normal that you hear a low static noise when you put your ear next to it?


if you put your hear against it you will hear it.
we tuned it so that fans noise covers the pump noise when a couple of feet away.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> if you put your hear against it you will hear it.
> we tuned it so that fans noise covers the pump noise when a couple of feet away.


It's been a few days, I think we are in need of a ....


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> I've used this Zalman PWM single channel fan controller with 3 Noctua NF-F12s using splitters, it works extremely well. Will it work equally as well with the Swiftech H220/320 pump? If I'm missing something here, please let me know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=33319


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> If it works well with your Noctua fans then it should work just as well with the pump on the H220. I was just saying that from my experience I've had spotty results using a PWM fan controller to control the speed of my pumps.


we'll try to come up with a list of compatible PWM controllers which are compatible with our kit.

There is a lot of confusion carried with the term PWM through product name and description.

a true PWM device such as a PWM fan or the MCP35X or the pump in the H220 have something in common: a 4th wire. The device is powered with 12V and uses the 4th wire to modulate the speed.

Key word here is controllers that say they can control "3-pin fans". if you see this it's not a good sign, because what it does is instead of using the 4th wire signal (which isn't there on a 3-pin fan), it instead modulates the actual power line (12V). I can't speak for another 4-pin PWM devices but our pump has some electronics that should NOT be modulated (that's why we have a 4th wire, remember)

If the PWM controller says it works with 4-pin PWM fans only then it should work just fine!


----------



## Roadkill95

this is probably a stupid question, but doesn't having the pump literally on the cpu create a not so ideal situation because of vibrations etc.? I fully trust swiftech with their decision with the AD2 and this but this question has been lingering in my mind and I'd appreciate an answer from someone with experience in this field.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> if you put your hear against it you will hear it.
> we tuned it so that fans noise covers the pump noise when a couple of feet away.


What kind of noise will there be? Can you link me to a sound clip or something that describes the sound of most pumps?


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> this is probably a stupid question, but doesn't having the pump literally on the cpu create a not so ideal situation because of vibrations etc.? I fully trust swiftech with their decision with the AD2 and this but this question has been lingering in my mind and I'd appreciate an answer from someone with experience in this field.


No issue, the pump is on the assembly, there is no reason to believe there is no rubber washers or other vibration dampening layers in between.


----------



## Daredevil 720

I just thought of this and I would like to hear your opinion Stephen.

Doesn't the location of the pump (on the waterblock) affect CPU temperatures due to the heat produced by the pump itself? I mean, other pumps like the MCP35X get hot enough (50C IIRC). I'm not talking about heat transfered to the water (as this happens with all pumps I guess) but heat transfered to the CPU socket directly. Also, if this is true, does it also apply for the Apogee Drive II and any other waterblock-pump combo out there?


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daredevil 720*
> 
> I just thought of this and I would like to hear your opinion Stephen.
> 
> Doesn't the location of the pump (on the waterblock) affect CPU temperatures due to the heat produced by the pump itself? I mean, other pumps like the MCP35X get hot enough (50C IIRC). I'm not talking about heat transfered to the water (as this happens with all pumps I guess) but heat transfered to the CPU socket directly. Also, if this is true, does it also apply for the Apogee Drive II and any other waterblock-pump combo out there?


Heat will continue to dissipate and transfer itself until its gone, think about it a little bit, you'll realize most the heat will makes its way into the loop, or radiate off of the components themselves into the internal case airflow.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> this is probably a stupid question, but doesn't having the pump literally on the cpu create a not so ideal situation because of vibrations etc.? I fully trust swiftech with their decision with the AD2 and this but this question has been lingering in my mind and I'd appreciate an answer from someone with experience in this field.


No it's not a problem at all. Pumps are mechanical parts and tend to vibrate. There is slightly less noise transmission with the pump on the CPU than on a radiator for example (MCR Drive). Our pumps are 100% balanced on a machine to minimize vibrations (and maximize their life span).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> What kind of noise will there be? Can you link me to a sound clip or something that describes the sound of most pumps?


We do not have any recording to share at this time. It would be best described as a little humming"?" noise.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> We do not have any recording to share at this time. It would be best describe as a little humming"?" noise.


Thanks.


----------



## Roadkill95

Thanks Stephen and Avonosac! appreciate the quick response.

Also I have to say that so far Stephen and bramSLI have really impressed me with how they treat potential customers. Every question gets answered almost immediately and you guys really seem to value what we think and I think its awesome. I'll just say that certain hardware reps from certain well known brands on this site have really disappointed me so much so that I don't even feel like buying their products anymore.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> Thanks Stephen and Avonosac! appreciate the quick response.
> 
> Also I have to say that so far Stephen and bramSLI have really impressed me with how they treat potential customers. Every question gets answered almost immediately and you guys really seem to value what we think and I think its awesome. I'll just say that certain hardware reps from certain well known brands on this site have really disappointed me so much so that I don't even feel like buying their products anymore.


YW.

Also, This.

Between Nick Sinh and his Formula bios for ASRock, and these guys with the H220. They moved me from impressed and on the fence to a customer. Both companies impressed me with their involvement in potential customers seeking higher than normal information and support. In this case it didn't hurt that the H220 is basically a SFFs dream to the behemoth of the AD2, its the right power, performance and noise combination. Can not wait to put this in my Prodigy.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> I've used this Zalman PWM single channel fan controller with 3 Noctua NF-F12s using splitters, it works extremely well. Will it work equally as well with the Swiftech H220/320 pump? If I'm missing something here, please let me know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=33319


Here is a great piece of research that Gabe did to help explain why a PWM fan controller may not work with our pump. Please read it when you get the chance.

PWM fan controllers2.docx 35k .docx file


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Here is a great piece of research that Gabe did to help explain why a PWM fan controller may not work with our pump. Please read it when you get the chance.
> 
> PWM fan controllers.docx 20k .docx file


Nice little write up, thanks for the additional info. Waiting for both this and the Fractal Arc Midi R2(going to be released in March) is frustrating. Just to clarify, if you have multiple PWM headers on a mobo, you should be able to plug your fans into any fan controller and the pump into another header on the mobo and control everything fine, right?


----------



## Avonosac

Hmmmm, question. I get another 220-QP to go with this, is there a connector or way to add those 2 fans to the same PWM as the others, or will I also need to get a real PWM controller? I'm talking mITX here, so PWM headers are... pretty much 1 for the case and 1 for the CPU on my Z77E-ITX.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Nice little write up, thanks for the additional info. Waiting for both this and the Fractal Arc Midi R2(going to be released in March) is frustrating. Just to clarify, if you have multiple PWM headers on a mobo, you should be able to plug your fans into any fan controller and the pump into another header on the mobo and control everything fine, right?


Yes, that's what our H220 was designed for. Being that it also comes with a PWM splitter you will be able to control multiple devices through a single motherboard PWM header.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Nice little write up, thanks for the additional info. Waiting for both this and the Fractal Arc Midi R2(going to be released in March) is frustrating. Just to clarify, if you have multiple PWM headers on a mobo, you should be able to plug your fans into any fan controller and the pump into another header on the mobo and control everything fine, right?


just get a pair of PWM fans such as the Helix 120 PWM and connect them to the PWM splitter (8 lines, you have quite a few spare lines you can use)


----------



## Avonosac

DIdn't realize the splitter had that many ports on it, that should work perfectly.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> DIdn't realize the splitter had that many ports on it, that should work perfectly.


For an SFF build it should work out great. Those motherboards don't have very many headers so the extra ones that are provided by our PWM splitter will really come in handy.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> For an SFF build it should work out great. Those motherboards don't have very many headers so the extra ones that are provided by our PWM splitter will really come in handy.


In that case, I might actually just pick up another Helix for the rear of my case, have them all run off the CPU header, nice and neat cable wise.


----------



## BramSLI1

There has been a change to the research that Gabe did on using PWM fan controllers with our H220 pump. Here is the updated information

PWM fan controllers2.docx 35k .docx file


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> your replies need more coupon codes for the swiftech store so I can pick up a few 140mm helix and 2 120mm helix pwms to have them ready for when the h220 releases


I just spoke with Gabe about offering coupon codes for specific products like our Helix fans. He said that this might be something that we'll offer in the future. I'll keep you all posted if and when we do offer coupon codes for specific products.


----------



## MeanBruce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> There has been a change to the research that Gabe did on using PWM fan controllers with our H220 pump. Here is the updated information
> 
> PWM fan controllers2.docx 35k .docx file


Yup, my little Zalman single channel PWM controller in on the list in the Word.doc, it does provide a 12V supply from a mobo header and includes the 4th mystery pin. Thanks guys, I'll be using some Sanyo-Denki fans instead of stock and have a standard Lamptron controller for those, so just the H220 pump will be a PWM line. That's great news, I'm all ready to go.









http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11617/bus-233/Zalman_PWM_Mate_-_Automatic_Manual_PWM_Fan_Controller_-_Black_.html?tl=g34c17s240


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> Yup, my little Zalman single channel PWM controller in on the list in the Word.doc, it does provide a 12V supply from a mobo header and includes the 4th mystery pin. Thanks guys, I'll be using some Sanyo-Denki fans instead of stock and have a standard Lamptron controller for those, so just the H220 pump will be a PWM line. That's great news, I'm all ready to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.frozencpu.com/products/11617/bus-233/Zalman_PWM_Mate_-_Automatic_Manual_PWM_Fan_Controller_-_Black_.html?tl=g34c17s240


Glad we were able to help.


----------



## Daredevil 720

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daredevil 720*
> 
> I just thought of this and I would like to hear your opinion Stephen.
> 
> Doesn't the location of the pump (on the waterblock) affect CPU temperatures due to the heat produced by the pump itself? I mean, other pumps like the MCP35X get hot enough (50C IIRC). I'm not talking about heat transfered to the water (as this happens with all pumps I guess) but heat transfered to the CPU socket directly. Also, if this is true, does it also apply for the Apogee Drive II and any other waterblock-pump combo out there?


Could I get an answer on this?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daredevil 720*
> 
> Could I get an answer on this?


To answer your question as best as I can it's simply that no, the pump doesn't add enough heat to affect the cooling of the water block. In other words the amount of heat that the pump introduces will not contribute to the heat created by the processor. If you look at the design of our Apogee Drive II it actually comes with a heat sink for exactly this reason. With that heat sink in place, and proper airflow, there will be virtually no additional heat added to the CPU or to the loop. The pump on our H220 kit requires less power than the 35X and therefore there is even less heat produced by it. This is why the pump on the H220 requires even less additional cooling. I hope this answers your question.


----------



## Daredevil 720

Thanks for the info! I'm just adding to my watercooling knowledge database.


----------



## BramSLI1

Just to clarify my previous post. You're going to have a pump in your loop regardless of where it's placed. Having the pump placed over the CPU block is no different than having it virtually anywhere else in your loop and therefore any residual heat it produces will subsequently add the same amount of heat to your loop wherever it's placed.


----------



## MeanBruce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Just to clarify my previous post. You're going to have a pump in your loop regardless of where it's placed. Having the pump placed over the CPU block is no different than having it virtually anywhere else in your loop and therefore any residual heat it produces will subsequently add the same amount of heat to your loop wherever it's placed.


BramSLI1 knows his thermal-transconductance very well.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> BramSLI1 knows his thermal-transconductance very well.


I've been trained by the best.







That would be Gabe and Stephen of course.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I've been trained by the best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be Gabe and Stephen of course.


Someones buckin' for a promotion.


----------



## Sickened1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> your replies need more coupon codes for the swiftech store so I can pick up a few 140mm helix and 2 120mm helix pwms to have them ready for when the h220 releases


This is the best price that i found them for, http://www.jab-tech.com/search.php?mode=search&page=1

I bought 9x 140mm fans and 2x 120mm fans...envy me..or at least say you do to make me fell better about my purchase as i don't have them yet.


----------



## Sickened1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> I've used this Zalman PWM single channel fan controller with 3 Noctua NF-F12s using splitters, it works extremely well. Will it work equally as well with the Swiftech H220/320 pump? If I'm missing something here, please let me know.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=33319


Holy crap, thank you for reminding me that i completely forgot to order fan splitters. That would have been a kick to the head if not for reading this comment.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Any word on a decision about offering a white tube version. I don't want to wait if it's not going to happen.
Thanks.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> Any word on a decision about offering a white tube version. I don't want to wait if it's not going to happen.
> Thanks.


It's going to happen. Not by the launch date though unfortunately. It will happen shortly thereafter though.


----------



## CapnCrunch10

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> It's going to happen. Not by the launch date though unfortunately. It will happen shortly thereafter though.


You mean to say it will happen right after you buy the black one.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> It's going to happen. Not by the launch date though unfortunately. It will happen shortly thereafter though.


Thank-You. Will hold out for the white tube version then.


----------



## kevindd992002

How much temp difference will I be expecting if I replace my air cooler (Thermalright Silver Arrow) with this AIO unit?


----------



## Avonosac

A lot.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> A lot.


Ah, that doesn't really help?


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> How much temp difference will I be expecting if I replace my air cooler (Thermalright Silver Arrow) with this AIO unit?


What temps are you currently getting with your silver arrow dude? Can you break it down to gaming and P95 (or equivalent)?


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> How much temp difference will I be expecting if I replace my air cooler (Thermalright Silver Arrow) with this AIO unit?


It depends on which tests you look at, what overclock, and fan speeds, but interpolating from a couple reviews I would estimate 5 to 10c better. But you get expandability, and quieter operation.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> What temps are you currently getting with your silver arrow dude? Can you break it down to gaming and P95 (or equivalent)?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> It depends on which tests you look at, what overclock, and fan speeds, but interpolating from a couple reviews I would estimate 5 to 10c better. But you get expandability, and quieter operation.


Well, with IBT I get around 74/82/84/81 load temps at 4.7GHz and 1.44V vcore. That's around 1300RPM for both pull fans in the heatsink.

Oh ok. I thought it was more around 15~20C better.

EDIT: Oh by the way, my ambient temp is around 31~32C.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Well, with IBT I get around 74/82/84/81 load temps at 4.7GHz and 1.44V vcore. That's around 1300RPM for both pull fans in the heatsink.
> 
> Oh ok. I thought it was more around 15~20C better.
> 
> EDIT: Oh by the way, my ambient temp is around 31~32C.


I would say probably 15 better in your situation because your ambient is so freaking high.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> I would say probably 15 better in your situation because your ambient is so freaking high.


Damn right it's freaking high, lol. So higher ambient temps would mean better performance for this AIO?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> I would say probably 15 better in your situation because your ambient is so freaking high.


Damn right it's freaking high, lol. So higher ambient temps would mean better performance for this AIO?


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Damn right it's freaking high, lol. So higher ambient temps would mean better performance for this AIO?


I believe that water is less affected (compared to air coolers) by ambients so their performance would be much better when comparing air cooling to water cooling in areas with high ambients like the PH.

One of our own (jprovido member of OCN and from the PH) experienced the same when he went from an H60 to a NH-D14. He was so dissapointed with the NH-D14 because (never used an AC I guess) it yielded the same temps as the H60. Since he lives in the PH it's guaranteed that his ambients are at 30-31*C (on a hot day even 32-33*C).

Of course OCN people started piling on him because he said that the NH-D14 only compared to his H60 in his setup with the super high ambients. He even tried it in his other setup and the NH-D14 didn't perform as he expected. Really it has to do with the super high ambients we have here in the PH which a lot of OCN members have never experienced.

He got an H80i and it's actually performing way better than his NH-D14 with our super high ambient environment. So I really think that the Swiftech H220 would perform way better than your silver arrow, just because of how high our ambients are.

For reference, here's the post where jprovido mentions that: CLICK HERE


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Damn right it's freaking high, lol. So higher ambient temps would mean better performance for this AIO?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> I believe that water is less affected (compared to air coolers) by ambients so their performance would be much better when comparing air cooling to water cooling in areas with high ambients like the PH.
> 
> One of our own (jprovido member of OCN and from the PH) experienced the same when he went from an H60 to a NH-D14. He was so dissapointed with the NH-D14 because (never used an AC I guess) it yielded the same temps as the H60. Since he lives in the PH it's guaranteed that his ambients are at 30-31*C (on a hot day even 32-33*C).
> 
> Of course OCN people started piling on him because he said that the NH-D14 only compared to his H60 in his setup with the super high ambients. He even tried it in his other setup and the NH-D14 didn't perform as he expected. Really it has to do with the super high ambients we have here in the PH which a lot of OCN members have never experienced.
> 
> He got an H80i and it's actually performing way better than his NH-D14 with our super high ambient environment. So I really think that the Swiftech H220 would perform way better than your silver arrow, just because of how high our ambients are.
> 
> For reference, here's the post where jprovido mentions that: CLICK HERE


I would advise more research in this here, but the thing about water you need to know, especially if you add more to the loops is the temperatures will equalize through the loop. You're rads are doing the same thing your air cooler is, they just typically have more surface area in which to distribute the same heat, meaning with higher ambients they have a better chance to distribute the heat. Its too early for me to remember the equation but ambient does play a role in how well your loop can cool.

This is a nearly the best 240 AIO cooler(statement based on temps from their releases) out there and (soon) available, and the fact that you can add a second rad and GPU to the loop, along with the space saving features, means this is a very good buy for a introduction to water cooling, without the complicated electronics and bells and whistles.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> How much temp difference will I be expecting if I replace my air cooler (Thermalright Silver Arrow) with this AIO unit?


In an open bench, I'd say 5ºC... tops. Inside a case, and provided you use the radiator as an intake and your HS had crappy clean airflow around, the different might be better.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> I would say probably 15 better in your situation because your ambient is so freaking high.


15ºC? You gotta be kidding me.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> In an open bench, I'd say 5ºC... tops. Inside a case, and provided you use the radiator as an intake and your HS had crappy clean airflow around, the different might be better.
> 15ºC? You gotta be kidding me.


Yep, I hope so, some people just like to talk out off their ass.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> In an open bench, I'd say 5ºC... tops. Inside a case, and provided you use the radiator as an intake and your HS had crappy clean airflow around, the different might be better.
> 15ºC? You gotta be kidding me.


This. I thought it was a different air cooler. I was thinking to stay on the lower side of your expectations because of the high ambient. Unless you have great airflow in cases, you can see a huge change in temps simply by relocating the dissipation of the heat from the internal air surrounding the CPU, to an exhaust.


----------



## prava

The thing is, if you compare an H50 against a Prolimatech Megashadow.

Push - pull: 5.5ºC difference.

1 fan only: 3ºC difference.

In both cases the Megashadow wins.

Now, its safe to assume that a Silver Arrow is better than the Megashadow and, even though the H220 is far superior than the H50 (bigger and better rad, better block and better pump), more than 5ºC seems like a LOT to me.

Yeah, sure, its possible that with the H220 its easier to get more ideal conditions (such as using the rad as an intake, whereas its terribly difficult to let your HS fresh air) but, still...


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> I would advise more research in this here, but the thing about water you need to know, especially if you add more to the loops is the temperatures will equalize through the loop. You're rads are doing the same thing your air cooler is, they just typically have more surface area in which to distribute the same heat, meaning with higher ambients they have a better chance to distribute the heat. Its too early for me to remember the equation but ambient does play a role in how well your loop can cool.
> 
> This is a nearly the best 240 AIO cooler(statement based on temps from their releases) out there and (soon) available, and the fact that you can add a second rad and GPU to the loop, along with the space saving features, means this is a very good buy for a introduction to water cooling, without the complicated electronics and bells and whistles.


With any cooler, whether it be an air cooler or a water cooler, they depend on surface area to dissipate the heat. This is where water cooling has the advantage. With the extra surface area water cooling is better equipped to dissipate heat and regulate temperatures. It's also going to depend on how good the airflow is and how good your TIM joint is. Your airflow helps with dissipating any of the hot air that ends up inside the case and your TIM joint is the contact between your cold plate and your chip.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> I believe that water is less affected (compared to air coolers) by ambients so their performance would be much better when comparing air cooling to water cooling in areas with high ambients like the PH.
> 
> One of our own (jprovido member of OCN and from the PH) experienced the same when he went from an H60 to a NH-D14. He was so dissapointed with the NH-D14 because (never used an AC I guess) it yielded the same temps as the H60. Since he lives in the PH it's guaranteed that his ambients are at 30-31*C (on a hot day even 32-33*C).
> 
> Of course OCN people started piling on him because he said that the NH-D14 only compared to his H60 in his setup with the super high ambients. He even tried it in his other setup and the NH-D14 didn't perform as he expected. Really it has to do with the super high ambients we have here in the PH which a lot of OCN members have never experienced.
> 
> He got an H80i and it's actually performing way better than his NH-D14 with our super high ambient environment. So I really think that the Swiftech H220 would perform way better than your silver arrow, just because of how high our ambients are.
> 
> For reference, here's the post where jprovido mentions that: CLICK HERE


Thanks for the explanation.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> I would advise more research in this here, but the thing about water you need to know, especially if you add more to the loops is the temperatures will equalize through the loop. You're rads are doing the same thing your air cooler is, they just typically have more surface area in which to distribute the same heat, meaning with higher ambients they have a better chance to distribute the heat. Its too early for me to remember the equation but ambient does play a role in how well your loop can cool.
> 
> This is a nearly the best 240 AIO cooler(statement based on temps from their releases) out there and (soon) available, and the fact that you can add a second rad and GPU to the loop, along with the space saving features, means this is a very good buy for a introduction to water cooling, without the complicated electronics and bells and whistles.


I don't get it, why would higher ambients have a better chance to distribute the heat?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> In an open bench, I'd say 5ºC... tops. Inside a case, and provided you use the radiator as an intake and your HS had crappy clean airflow around, the different might be better.
> 15ºC? You gotta be kidding me.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> This. I thought it was a different air cooler. I was thinking to stay on the lower side of your expectations because of the high ambient. Unless you have great airflow in cases, you can see a huge change in temps simply by relocating the dissipation of the heat from the internal air surrounding the CPU, to an exhaust.


Interesting. So the only real benefit of going with the H220 is the expandability and the significant noise reduction? For the temps itself, I would just expect a minimal difference.

I was actually asking this because for my Gigabyte GTX 670 WF3 OC card, the stock cooler gave me Heaven full load temps of 64C and when I replaced it with the Accelero Hybrid Cooler I got a whooping 46C! That's about 18C difference.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Interesting. So the only real benefit of going with the H220 is the expandability and the significant noise reduction? For the temps itself, I would just expect a minimal difference.
> 
> I was actually asking this because for my Gigabyte GTX 670 WF3 OC card, the stock cooler gave me Heaven full load temps of 64C and when I replaced it with the Accelero Hybrid Cooler I got a whooping 46C! That's about 18C difference.


What's the noise like on that new cooler though? I would imagine that with our new H220 you'll still be able to knock those temps down by another 8 to 10 degrees.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> What's the noise like on that new cooler though? I would imagine that with our new H220 you'll still be able to knock those temps down by another 8 to 10 degrees.


Well, I replaced the stock fan of the new cooler with an AP-29 PWM-controlled fan so the noise is practically equal to that of the stock cooler unless I run it at low speeds.

Are there any reviews out there comparing the SA and your new H220?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Well, I replaced the stock fan of the new cooler with an AP-29 PWM-controlled fan so the noise is practically equal to that of the stock cooler unless I run it at low speeds.
> 
> Are there any reviews out there comparing the SA and your new H220?


The Silver Arrow isn't going to be any match for the H220 simply because the H220 has more surface area to dissipate more heat. Being that it also has a stronger pump than the other AIO units it's going give you better flow and thus better temperature regulation. I may have been a little too optimistic though in my guesstimate of how much better cooling you'll get for your GPU. I would think that you should get about 3 to 6 degrees cooler temps and not the 8 to 10 that I previously quoted. That aftermarket cooler is one of the best.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> The Silver Arrow isn't going to be any match for the H220 simply because the H220 has more surface area to dissipate more heat. Being that it also has a stronger pump than the other AIO units it's going give you better flow and thus better temperature regulation. I may have been a little too optimistic though in my guesstimate of how much better cooling you'll get for your GPU. I would think that you should get about 3 to 6 degrees cooler temps and not the 5 to 8 that I previously quoted. That aftermarket cooler is one of the best.


Oh yeah, I was actually referring to replacing my Silver Arrow. With regards to the GPU cooling I have, I just made it as an example







Or more of a basis of how much of a temp difference, I thought, I would get if I replace the SA with the H220. So how much temp difference is your guesstimate for the CPU cooling replacement, if ever?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Oh yeah, I was actually referring to replacing my Silver Arrow. With regards to the GPU cooling I have, I just made it as an example
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or more of a basis of how much of a temp difference, I thought, I would get if I replace the SA with the H220. So how much temp difference is your guesstimate for the CPU cooling replacement, if ever?


Given your high ambient temperatures I'd still expect you to get about a good 8 to 12 degrees better than your SA. You should set this up though as an intake so that you get the best cooling performance. This should give you closer to the 12 degrees that estimating. Gabe is in a meeting right now, but as soon as he gets out of it I'll ask him about how we're going to distribute the H220 to the Philippines. I think the HAF922 will be coming in this week as well and I'll let you know how we installed our new kit in it.


----------



## Roadkill95

Also worth noting is that the silver arrow is noisy, big, ugly, gets in the way of ram and dumps heat/starves airflow from other components depending on the way it's mounted. The h220 would be my choice even if it had worse temps.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> The thing is, if you compare an H50 against a Prolimatech Megashadow.
> 
> Push - pull: 5.5ºC difference.
> 
> 1 fan only: 3ºC difference.
> 
> In both cases the Megashadow wins.
> 
> Now, its safe to assume that a Silver Arrow is better than the Megashadow and, even though the H220 is far superior than the H50 (bigger and better rad, better block and better pump), more than 5ºC seems like a LOT to me.
> 
> Yeah, sure, its possible that with the H220 its easier to get more ideal conditions (such as using the rad as an intake, whereas its terribly difficult to let your HS fresh air) but, still...


I was also bleary eyed and had not had my first cup of coffee, posting in that condition was decidedly a mistake. Mentally I have already added a 2nd QP with helix fans, so cooling of the H220 is at that mark in my mind.

You are very correct sir, I'll make sure to be conscious before posting something as exact as temperature figures.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> The Silver Arrow isn't going to be any match for the H220 simply because the H220 has more surface area to dissipate more heat. Being that it also has a stronger pump than the other AIO units it's going give you better flow and thus better temperature regulation. I may have been a little too optimistic though in my guesstimate of how much better cooling you'll get for your GPU. I would think that you should get about 3 to 6 degrees cooler temps and not the 8 to 10 that I previously quoted. That aftermarket cooler is one of the best.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> I don't get it, why would higher ambients have a better chance to distribute the heat?


It doesn't I was referring to surface area, but being tired I left that part out, and figured that would be the assumption of the reader. Sorry for the confusion. Took me 5 times re-reading it to figure out why people were thinking I was saying higher ambients means better coolilng.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Oh yeah, I was actually referring to replacing my Silver Arrow. With regards to the GPU cooling I have, I just made it as an example
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or more of a basis of how much of a temp difference, I thought, I would get if I replace the SA with the H220. So how much temp difference is your guesstimate for the CPU cooling replacement, if ever?


My ballpark guestimate was off, but .. in the ballpark! Wahoo! At least I wasn't being completely stupid in the AM.


----------



## justanoldman

The best way to cool your cpu and one gpu is with the H220 and an additional radiator and its two fans. But how much do you lose, approximately, if you try to cool a GPU with just the H220 and its one radiator?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Given your high ambient temperatures I'd still expect you to get about a good 8 to 12 degrees better than your SA. You should set this up though as an intake so that you get the best cooling performance. This should give you closer to the 12 degrees that estimating. Gabe is in a meeting right now, but as soon as he gets out of it I'll ask him about how we're going to distribute the H220 to the Philippines. I think the HAF922 will be coming in this week as well and I'll let you know how we installed our new kit in it.


Oh ok. Hmm, should all rads be setup as intake though? How much is the temp difference between an intake and exhaust rad/fan setup?

With my Accelero Hybrid Cooler, initially I placed the rad/fan combo as an intake in my bottom fan slot (it's only 120mm) and the hot air from the rad was directed towards the intake fan of the GPU shroud. This made temps 57C at full load. I then tried installing as an exhaust and it immediately dropped temps to 46C like I've said above.

Thanks for attending to my issues regarding distribution and case compatibility.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> Also worth noting is that the silver arrow is noisy, big, ugly, gets in the way of ram and dumps heat/starves airflow from other components depending on the way it's mounted. The h220 would be my choice even if it had worse temps.


That's a matter of personal opinion, I guess. It isn't noisy for me and it did get a lot of good reviews as one of the best Air Coolers even these days.


----------



## BramSLI1

Kevindd992002, I've been researching your case and your motherboard and what I've been able to determine is that due to your tall MOSFET heat sink at the top of your board you'll probably need to mount your fans on top of the case. There really isn't very much room above your motherboard. That particular motherboard also has some tall heat sinks that will interfere with having the fans sitting under the radiator. Your 8-pin power connector is another issue that will make it difficult to mount your fans under the radiator. We don't have a motherboard here with heat sinks that appear to be as tall as the ones on your board. This will make it difficult to give you a real assessment of how to install this kit in your case. My best advice would be to mount the fans on top of the case and have them blowing air down and across the radiator.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Oh ok. Hmm, should all rads be setup as intake though? How much is the temp difference between an intake and exhaust rad/fan setup?
> 
> With my Accelero Hybrid Cooler, initially I placed the rad/fan combo as an intake in my bottom fan slot (it's only 120mm) and the hot air from the rad was directed towards the intake fan of the GPU shroud. This made temps 57C at full load. I then tried installing as an exhaust and it immediately dropped temps to 46C like I've said above.
> 
> Thanks for attending to my issues regarding distribution and case compatibility.
> That's a matter of personal opinion, I guess. It isn't noisy for me and it did get a lot of good reviews as one of the best Air Coolers even these days.


Was the bottom fan slot starved for air? You want intakes to have access to high volume open flowing air. If you have.. say a desk or a carpet below the slot, you won't get as high air flow. In the same scenario if you just dump heat out, you'll reduce the effectiveness of the water cooling by using warmer case air, but it won't be as starved for airflow.

EDIT: what the duece, I didn't multi those.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Kevindd992002, I've been researching your case and your motherboard and what I've been able to determine is that due to your tall MOSFET heat sink at the top of your board you'll probably need to mount your fans on top of the case. There really isn't very much room above your motherboard. That particular motherboard also has some tall heat sinks that will interfere with having the fans sitting under the radiator. Your 8-pin power connector is another issue that will make it difficult to mount your fans under the radiator. We don't have a motherboard here with heat sinks that appear to be as tall as the ones on your board. This will make it difficult to give you a real assessment of how to install this kit in your case. My best advice would be to mount the fans on top of the case and have them blowing air down and across the radiator.


I was actually expecting this answer. How thick is the rad + fan combo of the H220?

Regarding setting it as intake, what then will happen to the rad hot air being blown inside the case?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Oh ok. Hmm, should all rads be setup as intake though? How much is the temp difference between an intake and exhaust rad/fan setup?
> 
> With my Accelero Hybrid Cooler, initially I placed the rad/fan combo as an intake in my bottom fan slot (it's only 120mm) and the hot air from the rad was directed towards the intake fan of the GPU shroud. This made temps 57C at full load. I then tried installing as an exhaust and it immediately dropped temps to 46C like I've said above.
> 
> Thanks for attending to my issues regarding distribution and case compatibility.
> That's a matter of personal opinion, I guess. It isn't noisy for me and it did get a lot of good reviews as one of the best Air Coolers even these days.


All radiators don't need to be placed as intakes. I've got three in my case and only the bottom radiator is set up as an intake. I would suggest that if all you have is one radiator that it should be set up as an intake as long as you still have good exhaust airflow. The HAF 922 has a good exhaust fan that should be able to remove the heat being brought in by the radiator. With the large intake fan in the front this should also help to regulate the temperatures within the case. Yours is a difficult situation to give good estimates on simply because of your high ambient temperatures. I agree with the other forum members though that the H220 is the better cooler than your SA. I'm biased though.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Was the bottom fan slot starved for air? You want intakes to have access to high volume open flowing air. If you have.. say a desk or a carpet below the slot, you won't get as high air flow. In the same scenario if you just dump heat out, you'll reduce the effectiveness of the water cooling by using warmer case air, but it won't be as starved for airflow.
> 
> EDIT: what the duece, I didn't multi those.


It isn't actually starving for air when it was set as an intake. The only resistance in the intake side of the fan was the fan grill on the bottom fan slot of the case. I made the standoffs of my case a little bit taller around 1.3" tall, that seems to be enough room for fresh air to be sucked in, right? And the case is sitting on a flat wooden plank so no problems with that.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> I was actually expecting this answer. How thick is the rad + fan combo of the H220?
> 
> Regarding setting it as intake, what then will happen to the rad hot air being blown inside the case?


I've got one set up on my work computer and the thickness is 5 1/4 centimeters from the radiator through to the fans on top.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I've got one set up on my work computer and the thickness is 5 1/4 centimeters from the radiator through to the fans on top.


Judging by the looks of it, I think it will definitely interfere with my board. How thich is the rad alone?

So you always have to have one exhaust fan for the back of the case to suck the warm air blown through the rad? My case doesn't have an exhaust fan right now because I built it for positive pressure and for wind tunnel effect. My exhaust fan grill was cut off and the expansion slot pillars are cut off. So basically all fans are intake (except for the bottom fan/rad combo for my GPU) and the airflow is from front to back. Here's an old pic of my case:



I will try to take a picture of my new case as there are a lot of changes already compared to that old one.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Judging by the looks of it, I think it will definitely interfere with my board. How thich is the rad alone?
> 
> So you always have to have one exhaust fan for the back of the case to suck the warm air blown through the rad? My case doesn't have an exhaust fan right now because I built it for positive pressure and for wind tunnel effect. My exhaust fan grill was cut off and the expansion slot pillars are cut off. So basically all fans are intake (except for the bottom fan/rad combo for my GPU) and the airflow is from front to back. Here's an old pic of my case:
> 
> I will try to take a picture of my new case as there are a lot of changes already compared to that old one.


Without an exhaust fan that really changes things. You might have to have this set it up as an exhaust or set your front intake as an exhaust. The thickness of the radiator alone is 2 1/2 centimeters. This doesn't account for the reservoir tank though. You can position the radiator with the reservoir tank in either the front or the back so it really doesn't matter.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Without an exhaust fan that really changes things. You might have to have this set it up as an exhaust or set your front intake as an exhaust. The thickness of the radiator alone is 2 1/2 centimeters. This doesn't account for the reservoir tank though. You can position the radiator with the reservoir tank in either the front or the back so it really doesn't matter.


Ok. If setup as an exhaust, how much temp increase do I expect?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> I believe that water is less affected (compared to air coolers) by ambients so their performance would be much better when comparing air cooling to water cooling in areas with high ambients like the PH.
> 
> One of our own (jprovido member of OCN and from the PH) experienced the same when he went from an H60 to a NH-D14. He was so dissapointed with the NH-D14 because (never used an AC I guess) it yielded the same temps as the H60. Since he lives in the PH it's guaranteed that his ambients are at 30-31*C (on a hot day even 32-33*C).
> 
> Of course OCN people started piling on him because he said that the NH-D14 only compared to his H60 in his setup with the super high ambients. He even tried it in his other setup and the NH-D14 didn't perform as he expected. Really it has to do with the super high ambients we have here in the PH which a lot of OCN members have never experienced.
> 
> He got an H80i and it's actually performing way better than his NH-D14 with our super high ambient environment. So I really think that the Swiftech H220 would perform way better than your silver arrow, just because of how high our ambients are.
> 
> For reference, here's the post where jprovido mentions that: CLICK HERE


By the way, in that same link you gave me, here's the probably the problem of jprovido: http://www.overclock.net/t/1343860/toms-hardware-nh-d14-vs-4-closed-loop-water-aio-showdown/50#post_18943924 why his D14 isn't working as expected.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Ok. If setup as an exhaust, how much temp increase do I expect?


Here's a better suggestion for your situation. I've been looking at pictures of the HAF 922 and I think I've got an idea. If you can mount the radiator just a little offset from the center and moved away from the motherboard this will give you enough room to mount the radiator in a push/pull configuration. Just make sure to have your 8-pin and your fan headers connected before mounting the radiator. This offset will cause some restriction in airflow, but with the radiator set up in push/pull this won't make much of a difference. In push/pull it really won't matter whether you have it set up as exhaust or intake either. You'll get a degree or two of better cooling performance with it set up as intake though.


----------



## MeanBruce

Was wondering if Swiftech has arrived at any lab values for Delta T idle with either the H220 or H320?

Thanks guys.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Here's a better suggestion for your situation. I've been looking at pictures of the HAF 922 and I think I've got an idea. If you can mount the radiator just a little offset from the center and moved away from the motherboard this will give you enough room to mount the radiator in a push/pull configuration. Just make sure to have your 8-pin and your fan headers connected before mounting the radiator. This offset will cause some restriction in airflow, but with the radiator set up in push/pull this won't make much of a difference. In push/pull it really won't matter whether you have it set up as exhaust or intake either. You'll get a degree or two of better cooling performance with it set up as intake though.


Hmmm, but I'm wanting push only to minimize noise though and of course the cost of buying additional fans. If I mount the push fans outside the case, does that equate to mounting the rad as exhaust in terms of temps?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Hmmm, but I'm wanting push only to minimize noise though and of course the cost of buying additional fans. If I mount the push fans outside the case, does that equate to mounting the rad as exhaust in terms of temps?


Mounting the fans outside of the case isn't going to make any noticeable difference. I would still recommend then that you change your front intake to an exhaust and set up the H220 as an intake. I understand not wanting to purchase extra fans.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> Was wondering if Swiftech has arrived at any lab values for Delta T idle with either the H220 or H320?
> 
> Thanks guys.


It's been long done already, we just haven't put the final web page together yet. (that comparative performance data is also printed on our packaging)


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> The best way to cool your cpu and one gpu is with the H220 and an additional radiator and its two fans. But how much do you lose, approximately, if you try to cool a GPU with just the H220 and its one radiator?


So is this a bad idea then?


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> It's been long done already, we just haven't put the final web page together yet. (that comparative performance data is also printed on our packaging)


Yea, but I can't get that packaging yet!!!










Seriously are we getting close?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> So is this a bad idea then?


There are just too many variables to answer your question based on the information that you provided. I would have to know what GPU you're talking about, what your ambient temps are, what kind of overclock you're running it at, and if you're planning to use this with the CPU as well. It sounds like you're asking about using this kit to cool both a CPU and a GPU, which can be done. Overclocking will be limited though due to the single radiator. Adding a radiator will definitely improve cooling and thus overclocking performance.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Yea, but I can't get that packaging yet!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously are we getting close?


Soon.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Soon.


take my money already, damn you


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Soon.


Haha, I'm working like 15 hour days for the last month, and will likely for another week or so, between this release and the titan.. I have just enough to look forward to that is keeping me moving.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Mounting the fans outside of the case isn't going to make any noticeable difference. I would still recommend then that you change your front intake to an exhaust and set up the H220 as an intake. I understand not wanting to purchase extra fans.


The only problem is that my case would become fugly








The only thing that bothers me if I would change my front intake to an exhaust is that it would stop supplying fresh air for the GPU intake. In that case, would it be wiser to just add an rear exhaust fan to take care of the hot air dumped by the H220 rad?

So to confirm, the estimate difference between an intake and exhaust config is about 2~3C, correct?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> So is this a bad idea then?


The only thing I can tell for sure without more details is that adding a second radiator with the same fans will pretty much cut your delta air-water in half. Difference between air and water depends on fan speed, pump speed and heat load. Depending on which CPU and GPU you are using total heat load can vary from 100 to 300W. Worst case scenario (highest heat load) with just the one dual fan radiator, delta air-water could be 15+ C - so adding a second dual rad would bring that delta down to about 7.5C - or net temperature drop of about 7.5C.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> The only thing I can tell for sure without more details is that adding a second radiator with the same fans will pretty much cut your delta air-water in half. Difference between air and water depends on fan speed, pump speed and heat load. Depending on which CPU and GPU you are using total heat load can vary from 100 to 300W. Worst case scenario (highest heat load) with just the one dual fan radiator, delta air-water could be 15+ C - so adding a second dual rad would bring that delta down to about 7.5C - or net temperature drop of about 7.5C.


So let's say a 3770k at 4.8 is max core temp 75c, then you throw in a GTX 680, your temps could go up as much as 15c, then adding another radiator, will take you to 7.5c higher than you were before adding the GPU to the H220 loop?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> The only problem is that my case would become fugly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The only thing that bothers me if I would change my front intake to an exhaust is that it would stop supplying fresh air for the GPU intake. In that case, would it be wiser to just add an rear exhaust fan to take care of the hot air dumped by the H220 rad?
> 
> So to confirm, the estimate difference between an intake and exhaust config is about 2~3C, correct?


Adding a rear exhaust would simplify things and yes, you'll be looking at about an extra 2 to 3 degrees by going from pull to push.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> So let's say a 3770k at 4.8 is max core temp 75c, then you throw in a GTX 680, your temps could go up as much as 15c, then adding another radiator, will take you to 7.5c higher than you were before adding the GPU to the H220 loop?


nope

15C is the max delta you would get between air and water if you use both a high TDP CPU AND a high end GPU.

3770K's do not develop much heat (say 80W), plus maybe 140W for the GPU. or a total of 220W (assuming you find a way to put everything on load and at the same time). 220W would give about 10-12C of delta air-water approximately on the one dual rad only.

But say you start off with the CPU only (80W), you get an air to water delta of 4-5 C, then add the GPU to the loop, your CPU temps will increase by 5-6 C (again assuming everything's on load).

All these estimations are kind of irrelevant somehow because there is just no real world application where both CPU ang GPU will be loaded 100% and at the same time. But I guess that gives you an idea of the worst case scenario.

Hope this helps.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Adding a rear exhaust would simply things and yes, you'll be looking at about an extra 2 to 3 degrees by going from pull to push.


Oh wait, I'm confused. AFAIK, going from pull to push isn't the same as going from exhaust to intake, right? I can use a push fan for both intake and exhaust configs.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> All these estimations are kind of irrelevant somehow because there is just no real world application where both CPU ang GPU will be loaded 100% and at the same time.


Wait, you are saying we are not supposed to stress test with Prime95, and play Crysis 3 at the same time???

Thanks for the info.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Oh wait, I'm confused. AFAIK, going from pull to push isn't the same as going from exhaust to intake, right? I can use a push fan for both intake and exhaust configs.


That's correct. You can have your intake or exhaust fans set up in either a pull or push configuration. Push and pull are referring to how you have the fans set up on the radiator. Pull is when air is being pulled through the radiator as opposed to pushing air through it. Exhaust refers to having air blown out of the case, rather than intake which has air drawn into the case.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Wait, you are saying we are not supposed to stress test with Prime95, and play Crysis 3 at the same time???
> 
> Thanks for the info.


hahaha

it's only a problem when everything lags so bad that even coretemp doesn't refresh anymore


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Oh wait, I'm confused. AFAIK, going from pull to push isn't the same as going from exhaust to intake, right? I can use a push fan for both intake and exhaust configs.


Exhaust or Intake is a choice you need to make based on your case airflow. But based on experience you usually do not need more than one case fan as exhaust - cause let's face it, a computer case is everything but a sealed box. That's why I pretty much always have a top radiator as intake (air outside is always colder and sometimes much cooler depending on air flow and how many non-liquid cooled components you've got in there).
Push or Pull, is an easier question to answer: Always push through a radiator, unless you've got some mechanical interference that prevents you from doing so.

How much you will gain from all combinations of push/pull/intake/exhaust is just too difficult to predict.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Interesting. So the only real benefit of going with the H220 is the expandability and the significant noise reduction? For the temps itself, I would just expect a minimal difference.
> 
> I was actually asking this because for my Gigabyte GTX 670 WF3 OC card, the stock cooler gave me Heaven full load temps of 64C and when I replaced it with the Accelero Hybrid Cooler I got a whooping 46C! That's about 18C difference.


Well, its not that simple. With any watercooling kit, its rather simple to have the radiator get fresh-cold air from the outside... which is something almost impossible in most cases if you are using a heatsink (and those exceptions would include the Silverstone FT02, along not many models). And it might not mean much, but its rather common that temperature Delta (difference) between in and out of the case might be up to 5ºC... and thats a different world. 5ºC here, 4ºC there... and wooops, your new solution is 10ºC better.

About GPU's... you have to be careful with those. Lets face it: the heatsinks they use are terribly crappy, but they suffice because a gpu has a MASSIVE surface area to be dissipated. You see, people thought that a highly overclocked GTX480 would be hard to cool on water... and it isn't, its much easier than any cpu processor out there, simply because the heat/mm^2 is huuuuuuuuuuuuuge in any gpu, and thus why its easy to have a high-end, highly overclocked gpu card load at 40ºC (with a normal waterloop, not something insane) and that is impossible for any overclocked cpu unless you use phase-change or something.

So: H220 with GTX670? You could probably peak the card at 40ºC... but temps would probably be better.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> Also worth noting is that the silver arrow is noisy, big, ugly, gets in the way of ram and dumps heat/starves airflow from other components depending on the way it's mounted. The h220 would be my choice even if it had worse temps.


It isn't noisy. The fans included by Thermalright are excellent.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> The best way to cool your cpu and one gpu is with the H220 and an additional radiator and its two fans. But how much do you lose, approximately, if you try to cool a GPU with just the H220 and its one radiator?


It all depends on what exactly you plan to do with your computer. If you plan to do folding, or anything that requires both gpu and cpu to be loaded at the same time.... I'd say the H220 will barely cut it if you plan to have a high-end gpu in your loop. Now, if you plan to do heavy gaming... its kinda weird to have games stress both cpu and gpu at once, and thus I'd say the H220 to be perfectly fine even with normal or even high-overclocks.

Although, and this is something that should be noted: it all depends on how do you plan to run your radiator. Using your rad with fresh air and push + pull VS using your rad with warm air + only push or pull... differences in Delta could be up to 10ºC. Its important to understand exactly what you plan to do with your setup, and to tune your system effectively.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Oh ok. Hmm, should all rads be setup as intake though? How much is the temp difference between an intake and exhaust rad/fan setup?


To achieve the best performance yes, rads should get cold air... the colder, the better. Of course, sometimes that isn't feasible because, doing so, you will add a heck of restriction and will ruin the performance for everybody else. Balance, its always a matter of balance.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> The only thing I can tell for sure without more details is that adding a second radiator with the same fans will pretty much cut your delta air-water in half. Difference between air and water depends on fan speed, pump speed and heat load. Depending on which CPU and GPU you are using total heat load can vary from 100 to 300W. Worst case scenario (highest heat load) with just the one dual fan radiator, delta air-water could be 15+ C - so adding a second dual rad would bring that delta down to about 7.5C - or net temperature drop of about 7.5C.


Pump speed? I thought flow doesn't matter in regards to rad performance (unless water is almost still, that is)...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> So let's say a 3770k at 4.8 is max core temp 75c, then you throw in a GTX 680, your temps could go up as much as 15c, then adding another radiator, will take you to 7.5c higher than you were before adding the GPU to the H220 loop?


No, no. The difference between the chip and the water (+ how good the block is) is what makes water to take the heat from the chip. The problem with cpu's is that they produce a lot of heat but are terribly small... and thus you need a very high temperature difference in order to cool the chip efficiently. Calculations aren't that easy to do, since it all depends on the usage of the system. Keep in mind that modern cards dump very little heat while idling... and thus your system wouldn't get too hot if you were maxing your cpu but the gpu were idle.

Like I said, it all depends on your situation... but small rads are never good for highly overclocked cpus. For gpu's? Not a problem, a single H220 could handle 3 x GTX680 easily, provided the water wouldn't boil.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Pump speed? I thought flow doesn't matter in regards to rad performance (unless water is almost still, that is)...


>1GPM most radiator thermal resistance is somewhat constant
but <1GPM the thermal resistance does vary.

My lab data below:









anyhow, I was just listing the different things that affect the air-water delta.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Well, its not that simple. With any watercooling kit, its rather simple to have the radiator get fresh-cold air from the outside... which is something almost impossible in most cases if you are using a heatsink (and those exceptions would include the Silverstone FT02, along not many models). And it might not mean much, but its rather common that temperature Delta (difference) between in and out of the case might be up to 5ºC... and thats a different world. 5ºC here, 4ºC there... and wooops, your new solution is 10ºC better.
> 
> About GPU's... you have to be careful with those. Lets face it: the heatsinks they use are terribly crappy, but they suffice because a gpu has a MASSIVE surface area to be dissipated. You see, people thought that a highly overclocked GTX480 would be hard to cool on water... and it isn't, its much easier than any cpu processor out there, simply because the heat/mm^2 is huuuuuuuuuuuuuge in any gpu, and thus why its easy to have a high-end, highly overclocked gpu card load at 40ºC (with a normal waterloop, not something insane) and that is impossible for any overclocked cpu unless you use phase-change or something.
> 
> So: H220 with GTX670? You could probably peak the card at 40ºC... but temps would probably be better.
> It isn't noisy. The fans included by Thermalright are excellent.
> It all depends on what exactly you plan to do with your computer. If you plan to do folding, or anything that requires both gpu and cpu to be loaded at the same time.... I'd say the H220 will barely cut it if you plan to have a high-end gpu in your loop. Now, if you plan to do heavy gaming... its kinda weird to have games stress both cpu and gpu at once, and thus I'd say the H220 to be perfectly fine even with normal or even high-overclocks.
> 
> Although, and this is something that should be noted: it all depends on how do you plan to run your radiator. Using your rad with fresh air and push + pull VS using your rad with warm air + only push or pull... differences in Delta could be up to 10ºC. Its important to understand exactly what you plan to do with your setup, and to tune your system effectively.
> To achieve the best performance yes, rads should get cold air... the colder, the better. Of course, sometimes that isn't feasible because, doing so, you will add a heck of restriction and will ruin the performance for everybody else. Balance, its always a matter of balance.
> Pump speed? I thought flow doesn't matter in regards to rad performance (unless water is almost still, that is)...
> No, no. The difference between the chip and the water (+ how good the block is) is what makes water to take the heat from the chip. The problem with cpu's is that they produce a lot of heat but are terribly small... and thus you need a very high temperature difference in order to cool the chip efficiently. Calculations aren't that easy to do, since it all depends on the usage of the system. Keep in mind that modern cards dump very little heat while idling... and thus your system wouldn't get too hot if you were maxing your cpu but the gpu were idle.
> 
> Like I said, it all depends on your situation... but small rads are never good for highly overclocked cpus. For gpu's? Not a problem, a single H220 could handle 3 x GTX680 easily, provided the water wouldn't boil.


Great post, but it seems like you're under the assumption of only the 1 radiator with the H220, yes? 2 x 220-QP's would be much better than the single.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> By the way, in that same link you gave me, here's the probably the problem of jprovido: http://www.overclock.net/t/1343860/toms-hardware-nh-d14-vs-4-closed-loop-water-aio-showdown/50#post_18943924 why his D14 isn't working as expected.


The case is heavily modded with a push / pull fan with tube setup at the bottom front of the case plus two 120mm fans up top and an exhaust fan at the rear. That's 4 fans at least for intake which I think is enough air flow for the NH-D14.

Keep on reading that thread and jprovido actually shows his rig in its current form. The pic you referenced is a pic one of our members pulled from his profile which was how it was originally and not what it is when the NH-D14 was used.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> >1GPM most radiator thermal resistance is somewhat constant
> but <1GPM the thermal resistance does vary.
> 
> My lab data below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anyhow, I was just listing the different things that affect the air-water delta.


Interesting. Although there is one thing I don't understand: how is it possible that restriction gets worse the smaller the rad? The first figure shows the 420 as the rad with the less restriction and the 120 the one with the most. Inverted data, methinks?

Regarding the flow on rads... well, its kinda clear that its a total moot point. From 0.5GPM to 1GPM it shows something like a 20% improvement, and the difference gets even smaller past that. Once we account for the heat that a bigger pump would be dumping into the loop to get a higher flow... we get into diminishing returns, to a point in which temperatures would get worse due to the sheer heat the pumps would be dumping.

At the end of the day, the more flow you have, the more heat your pump is dumping... which translates that if you have a loop with one DDC, and add another in series, your pump power consumption will probably triple.


----------



## CoolGuy90

Here's what I plan to do. I have the Corsair 650D. There is a front 200mm intake, and I want to mount the H220 up top in a push configuration. I also want to add a rear Swiftech MCRx20-QP radiator and add a fan in push configuration. For my GTX 670 I want to get the Heatkiller waterblock. I am thinking this should be adequate to cool my i7 920 @ 3.6GHz and my GTX 670 at stock speeds. I probably will be replacing whatever liquid that comes with the H220 to distilled water and biocide.


----------



## prava

For that setup the H220 as it comes would more than suffice, unless you plan to do heavy folding.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Interesting. Although there is one thing I don't understand: how is it possible that restriction gets worse the smaller the rad? The first figure shows the 420 as the rad with the less restriction and the 120 the one with the most. Inverted data, methinks?
> 
> Regarding the flow on rads... well, its kinda clear that its a total moot point. From 0.5GPM to 1GPM it shows something like a 20% improvement, and the difference gets even smaller past that. Once we account for the heat that a bigger pump would be dumping into the loop to get a higher flow... we get into diminishing returns, to a point in which temperatures would get worse due to the sheer heat the pumps would be dumping.
> 
> At the end of the day, the more flow you have, the more heat your pump is dumping... which translates that if you have a loop with one DDC, and add another in series, your pump power consumption will probably triple.


It's possible that the labels may have been inverted, funny no one ever noticed that in 3+ years haha

precisely why the sweat spot of most LC loops is around 1GPM which can be done with a 5-6W pump (as we demonstrate with H220) where as you'll need 18W to get passed 1.5GPM (not even talking about higher flow rates) - water blocks tend to perform better with higher flow rate but not radiators, precisely why we have been working hard on getting the best performance WB at the smallest flow rates possible.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> It's possible that the labels may have been inverted, funny no one ever noticed that in 3+ years haha
> 
> precisely why the sweat spot of most LC loops is around 1GPM which can be done with a 5-6W pump (as we demonstrate with H220) where as you'll need 18W to get passed 1.5GPM (not even talking about higher flow rates) - water blocks tend to perform better with higher flow rate but not radiators, precisely why we have been working hard on getting the best performance WB at the smallest flow rates possible.


Much like I mentioned earlier either in this thread or the other H220 thread. The power needed for higher flow rates is similar to the power needed for higher top speed in vehicles. It takes 8 times the horsepower to propel a vehicle 200 MPH as it does to propel it 100 mph, and the angles and fittings are much like the aerodynamics of the vehicle. The better the aerodynamics, the less power it needs to go a certain speed, and the less restriction in the loop, the higher the flow rate will be.

As an example of the power needs, my friend Aaron Wilson owns a bonneville-built Buell S2 with RR-1000 bodywork, that runs an NRHS-built 100" motor on nitro and puts out about 300 HP. It went 217.9 MPH at Bonneville (class record). That same year, a friend of his rode a turbocharged Hayabusa on Bonneville 238 MPH, but it had over 600 HP. Double the power netted only 20 MPH.


----------



## msgclb

I considered using a HAF 922 with the H220 but after taking some measurements it became evident that wouldn't work with the motherboard I wanted to use.

If you look close enough you can see there is about 50mm of clearance from the top of the case to where the top of the motherboard would be.



While I don't think I would have a problem with any heatsinks I would need 54mm of clearance because my memory slots are at the top of the motherboard and my Corsair Vengeance memory is 53mm high.

I've now decided to go back to my original choice of the XION 970. Here you can see my old case has over 55mm of clearance. That's my Corsair Vengeance memory you see at the top right.



On the Swiftech webpage their 970 example has red expansion slot covers while mine are black.

I don't have a clue why there is a difference.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> That's correct. You can have your intake or exhaust fans set up in either a pull or push configuration. Push and pull are referring to how you have the fans set up on the radiator. Pull is when air is being pulled through the radiator as opposed to pushing air through it. Exhaust refers to having air blown out of the case, rather than intake which has air drawn into the case.


Yup gotcha,
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Exhaust or Intake is a choice you need to make based on your case airflow. But based on experience you usually do not need more than one case fan as exhaust - cause let's face it, a computer case is everything but a sealed box. That's why I pretty much always have a top radiator as intake (air outside is always colder and sometimes much cooler depending on air flow and how many non-liquid cooled components you've got in there).
> Push or Pull, is an easier question to answer: Always push through a radiator, unless you've got some mechanical interference that prevents you from doing so.
> 
> How much you will gain from all combinations of push/pull/intake/exhaust is just too difficult to predict.


Oh ok. But generally an intake rad with a push fan usually produces cooler temps than a push exhaust?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> >1GPM most radiator thermal resistance is somewhat constant
> but <1GPM the thermal resistance does vary.
> 
> My lab data below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> anyhow, I was just listing the different things that affect the air-water delta.


In water cooling, we want the air-water difference to be as small as possible, right?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> The case is heavily modded with a push / pull fan with tube setup at the bottom front of the case plus two 120mm fans up top and an exhaust fan at the rear. That's 4 fans at least for intake which I think is enough air flow for the NH-D14.
> 
> Keep on reading that thread and jprovido actually shows his rig in its current form. The pic you referenced is a pic one of our members pulled from his profile which was how it was originally and not what it is when the NH-D14 was used.


Ok thanks, I will.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *msgclb*
> 
> I considered using a HAF 922 with the H220 but after taking some measurements it became evident that wouldn't work with the motherboard I wanted to use.
> If you look close enough you can see there is about 50mm of clearance from the top of the case to where the top of the motherboard would be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> While I don't think I would have a problem with any heatsinks I would need 54mm of clearance because my memory slots are at the top of the motherboard and my Corsair Vengeance memory is 53mm high.
> 
> I've now decided to go back to my original choice of the XION 970. Here you can see my old case has over 55mm of clearance. That's my Corsair Vengeance memory you see at the top right.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the Swiftech webpage their 970 example has red expansion slot covers while mine are black.
> I don't have a clue why there is a difference.


We're on the same boat. The suggestion to me was to mount the fans outside the case.


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Much like I mentioned earlier either in this thread or the other H220 thread. The power needed for higher flow rates is similar to the power needed for higher top speed in vehicles. It takes 8 times the horsepower to propel a vehicle 200 MPH as it does to propel it 100 mph, and the angles and fittings are much like the aerodynamics of the vehicle. The better the aerodynamics, the less power it needs to go a certain speed, and the less restriction in the loop, the higher the flow rate will be.
> 
> As an example of the power needs, my friend Aaron Wilson owns a bonneville-built Buell S2 with RR-1000 bodywork, that runs an NRHS-built 100" motor on nitro and puts out about 300 HP. It went 217.9 MPH at Bonneville (class record). That same year, a friend of his rode a turbocharged Hayabusa on Bonneville 238 MPH, but it had over 600 HP. Double the power netted only 20 MPH.


I'm sorry to say this but your analogy to the automotive/ motorcycle/aerodynamics are way off. Need to stop giving people false information please. Top speed on a vehicle or any vehicle is not dependent on horsepower alone. Its depended on gear ratios(a.k.a)transmission which is the most important.With the correct suspension and a mix of good hp. Did your buddies Buell S2 with RR-1000 go 217.9 mph? I'm sure he did but ask him how long it took him compared to the hayabusa. Bet the hayabusa did in half the time I bet!

What do you mean you need an extra 300 hp to go another 20 mph? That's a bunch of BS! Extend the gearing on the hayabusa that thing will do 238MPH++++++ Easily. It will take longer to get there but it will do it. ITS ABOUT GEARING! NHRA Cars/bikes are built around 1/4 mile runs. So guess what?Transmissions are accordingly modified to maximize the cars horsepower. Actually for any type of racing.

Point Being The transmission/gearing is what was holding that hayabusa back. Don't need extra 300hp to go 20mph.

Not to be mean, But ask your friend on how Gearing is more important than HP and how to build a 1/4 or top speed vehicle. Please stop giving this people false information


----------



## Dizz22r

Accidentally posted twice sorry!


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> I'm sorry to say this but your analogy to the automotive/aerodynamics are way off. Need to stop giving people false information please. Top speed on a vehicle or any vehicle is not dependent on horsepower alone. Its depended on gear ratios(a.k.a)transmission which is the most important.With the correct suspension and a mix of good hp. Did your buddies car go 217.9 mph? I'm sure he did but ask him how long it took him compared to the hayabusa. Bet the hayabusa did in half the time.
> 
> What do you mean you need an extra 300 hp to go another 20 mph? That's a bunch of BS! Extend the gearing on the hayabusa that thing will do 238MPH++++++ Easily. It will take longer to get there but it will do it. ITS ABOUT GEARING! NHRA Cars are built around 1/4 mile runs. So guess what?Transmissions are accordingly modified to maximize the speed according the the cars horsepower. Actually for any type of racing.
> 
> Point Being The transmission/gearing is what was holding that hayabusa back. Don't need extra 300hp to go 20mph.
> 
> Not to be mean, But ask your friend on how Gearing is more important than HP and how to build a racecar. Please stop giving this people false information


They are both motorcycles, lol. There was no car involved. This is entirely off-topic though, while interesting to a point.


----------



## Dizz22r

Thank you for pointing that out kind of half sleep, but it Doesn't matter about what type of vehicle it is. point being he thinks horspower is what determines speed which is completely false. Gearing determines Maximum speed. All Hp does helps you achieve the top speed of that gearing faster!

I know its off topic just got annoying seeing him repost it!

On the the other hand im trying to understand how High SP fans with lets say a 360mm radiator is more effective at cooling, Than lets say a 400mm radiator with 2x200mm fans. 400 is much greater surface area and bigger fans Flow more cfms @= speeds(RPMS)


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> Thank you for pointing that out kind of half sleep, but it Doesn't matter about what type of vehicle it is. point being he thinks horspower is what determines speed which is completely false. Gearing determines Maximum speed. All Hp does helps you achieve the top speed of that gearing faster!
> 
> I know its off topic just got annoying seeing him repost it!
> 
> On the the other hand im trying to understand how High SP fans with lets say a 360mm radiator is more effective at cooling, Than lets say a 400mm radiator with 2x200mm fans. 400 is much greater surface area and bigger fans Flow more cfms @= speeds(RPMS)


I never said horsepower alone determines top speed. Gearing has a lot to do with it as well. But at those speeds wind resistance will be so high that you cannot climb the gearing without horsepower. Just like our 35 ft box truck at work has the gearing to go 80+mph, but against the wind we're lucky to get 55 at full throttle and it will NOT go faster, even on an 80 mile stretch of highway, because it doesn't have the horsepower to buck our windsail of a truck any faster against the wind. It's relative because once you get up there in speed the wind resistance becomes so much that it's like towing a brick wall. It's relative because Stephenm mentioned that it only takes about 6w to push these pumps to 1gpm, but it takes 18w to push them to 1.2 gpm, meaning that >1gpm is also loke towing a wall. That was my only point, to relate to the fact that higher flow rates need exponentially more power, not relatively more.

As for the two bikes, they both traveled on the same track- the salt flats, and had the same distance to do it in. Aerodynamics also played a small part in the difference, since the RR-1000 bodywork is more aerodynamic that the Air-tech jellybean shell on the Busa, but not much.


----------



## gkolarov

I am thinking to buy Swiftech H220 when it comes available in the shops, but i am not sure will it fit my case - Cooler Master HAF-X

http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=6653

I did some measurement inside the case and i think that Swiftech H220 will fit well inside the case beneath the top two 200mm fans, but i am not a 100% sure, because Swiftech H220 will be my first water cooler and here my case is not present as a H220 Chassis Compatible ?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gkolarov*
> 
> I am thinking to buy Swiftech H220 when it comes available in the shops, but i am not sure will it fit my case - Cooler Master HAF-X
> 
> http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=6653
> 
> I did some measurement inside the case and i think that Swiftech H220 will fit well inside the case beneath the top two 200mm fans, but i am not a 100% sure, because Swiftech H220 will be my first water cooler and here my case is not present as a H220 Chassis Compatible ?


I think it'll come down to the mobo you're using, but I think it'll fit my buddy Johnathan has an H100 in his under the 200 mm fans with fans on the underside of it as well, and the H220 is only a couple mm thicker than that. He's using a an Asus Z77 pro mobo.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gkolarov*
> 
> I am thinking to buy Swiftech H220 when it comes available in the shops, but i am not sure will it fit my case - Cooler Master HAF-X
> 
> http://www.coolermaster.com/product.php?product_id=6653
> 
> I did some measurement inside the case and i think that Swiftech H220 will fit well inside the case beneath the top two 200mm fans, but i am not a 100% sure, because Swiftech H220 will be my first water cooler and here my case is not present as a H220 Chassis Compatible ?


I had the HAF X case before upgrading to the Switch 810 and I can tell you that you shouldn't have any problem installing the H220 at the top of it. With the 200mm fans set up under the shroud this will allow you the room to set up the H220 under it.


----------



## Sickened1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I had the HAF X case before upgrading to the Switch 810 and I can tell you that you shouldn't have any problem installing the H220 at the top of it. With the 200mm fans set up under the shroud this will allow you the room to set up the H220 under it.


My Switch 810 comes in a few days, how do you like it?
Going to be loading mine up with these! 
Thank's to Jab-Tech for the quick shipping.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sickened1*
> 
> My Switch 810 comes in a few days, how do you like it?
> Going to be loading mine up with these!
> Thank's to Jab-Tech for the quick shipping.


I absolutely love my Switch 810. Those are some pretty sexy fans. All I use in my case are Helix fans of course so I'm a little biased.







I upgraded from the HAF X so that I could run a dual 120mm radiator in the floor. This thing just has so much room and so many options that it just can't be beat in its price range. I hope you enjoy and don't forget to post some pics.


----------



## msgclb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sickened1*
> 
> Thank's to Jab-Tech for the quick shipping.


I really love their overnight shipping!









That's the privilege I get by living about 30 miles from them.

If I get my order in before FedEx or UPS picks up that night then my order will be on their respective trucks to be delivered the next morning.

With UPS I'll get it about 10:30 AM.

Now that's quick shipping!


----------



## ez12a

i just bought a bunch of Helix 120s non-pwm from amazon. Cant wait to put them in to match my 600t SE!









just something new to hold me over until the h220 comes out lol.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> i just bought a bunch of Helix 120s non-pwm from amazon. Cant wait to put them in to match my 600t SE!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just something new to hold me over until the h220 comes out lol.


I just watched your YouTube video of the problems that you've been having with the H100i. I've heard that these are fairly common problems that Corsair has been having with these units. You will definitely like our H220 quite a lot more. Let me know what you think of our fans too.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I just watched your YouTube video of the problems that you've been having with the H100i. I've heard that these are fairly common problems that Corsair has been having with these units. You will definitely like our H220 quite a lot more. Let me know what you think of our fans too.


Do we have an official release date yet? My prodigy is really lacking its WC buddies :O

I mean I am just saying ...
Quote:


> *Availability: Mid-late February*


----------



## Davron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> we've designed the pump from scratch and as mentioned in many other pumps we defined our specifications.
> One version of the pump used on the H220 had actually over 5mH2O of static pressure (running over 4,500 RPM).
> Yes we plan on having this as a stand-alone LC pump, but not necessarily with the specifications used in H220. It will most likely have more hydraulic power.


Does this mean that there isn't any benefit to two pumps vs one like you have with your x2 product if you specify the design instead of repurposing the pump? I think I'm unclear as to the definition of static pressure in this case. Is this the 0 flow maximum lift? If so that is still just a bit more than half of what the x2 puts out. But pumps are all different, so that doesn't necessarily say what it would do at 1.5 gpm, right?

I'm glad you have taken charge of your own destiny by spooling up your own design and fabrication. I'm assuming that you are going to have some trouble meeting the initial demand of the H220 by itself, much less providing stand alone pumps. Do you think you'll get a handle of that by the middle of the year such that you can release the stand-alone? I'd love a second pump in my Switch 810 and if you can keep it quiet like this one, it would be a really good fit and just in time for my drain and fill.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Do we have an official release date yet? My prodigy is really lacking its WC buddies :O
> 
> I mean I am just saying ...


It will be released in the next couple of weeks or so. Unfortunately that's the best information we have right now. By the end of February.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Davron*
> 
> Does this mean that there isn't any benefit to two pumps vs one like you have with your x2 product if you specify the design instead of repurposing the pump? I think I'm unclear as to the definition of static pressure in this case. Is this the 0 flow maximum lift? If so that is still just a bit more than half of what the x2 puts out. But pumps are all different, so that doesn't necessarily say what it would do at 1.5 gpm, right?
> 
> I'm glad you have taken charge of your own destiny by spooling up your own design and fabrication. I'm assuming that you are going to have some trouble meeting the initial demand of the H220 by itself, much less providing stand alone pumps. Do you think you'll get a handle of that by the middle of the year such that you can release the stand-alone? I'd love a second pump in my Switch 810 and if you can keep it quiet like this one, it would be a really good fit and just in time for my drain and fill.


head pressure by itself is somewhat meaningless but still more important than max discharge. The reason for this is that most actual system flow rates are around 1 to 1.5 GPM, so practically about 1/4 (sometimes even less) of the maximum discharge (max flow rate), so just looking at the Max head pressure on different pumps does give a good idea of which will give the best actual flow rate.


----------



## justanoldman

Thanks for all the replies Bram and Stephen. If you guys were going to put together an overclocked 3770k system with one overclocked GPU, and wanted to use the H220 with an extra radiator to cool both the CPU and GPU, which computer case(s) would you pick to work well for the two rads without any mods? A lot of cases can handle one rad with the two attached fans, but I am not sure which ones make it easy and efficient to handle the extra rad with its two fans.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Thanks for all the replies Bram and Stephen. If you guys were going to put together an overclocked 3770k system with one overclocked GPU, and wanted to use the H220 with an extra radiator to cool both the CPU and GPU, which computer case(s) would you pick to work well for the two rads without any mods? A lot of cases can handle one rad with the two attached fans, but I am not sure which ones make it easy and efficient to handle the extra rad with its two fans.


In the price range of under $200 I'd look at the Switch 810 and the Cooler Master Storm Trooper/Striker. Both of these cases are great for installing dual 2x120mm fan radiators without modding. I love my Switch 810 and I know quite a few people that also love their Storm Trooper/Striker cases.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Thanks for all the replies Bram and Stephen. If you guys were going to put together an overclocked 3770k system with one overclocked GPU, and wanted to use the H220 with an extra radiator to cool both the CPU and GPU, which computer case(s) would you pick to work well for the two rads without any mods? A lot of cases can handle one rad with the two attached fans, but I am not sure which ones make it easy and efficient to handle the extra rad with its two fans.


My bitfenix prodigy, I think fits it just fine


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> T...which computer case(s) would you pick to work well for the two rads without any mods?


Arc Midi R2 is coming out in March. Supports a 240mm in top or front, no modding. It looks like 280mm would work, but can't really tell.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Thanks for all the replies Bram and Stephen. If you guys were going to put together an overclocked 3770k system with one overclocked GPU, and wanted to use the H220 with an extra radiator to cool both the CPU and GPU, which computer case(s) would you pick to work well for the two rads without any mods? A lot of cases can handle one rad with the two attached fans, but I am not sure which ones make it easy and efficient to handle the extra rad with its two fans.


In there video on 4th system the H220 was cooling the mobo mosfets, 3770k and 2x GTX 680 on a single H220.
A new case is coming out in March from Fractal. The Arc Midi R2. Can support 2x 240 rads for about $120US.
You can spend over $180 on large full towers like the NZXT Swich 810 or $350 for the Corsair 900D. These two case I would get a H320 (360 rad for the top) as you can fit it in. Which is still enough to cool, cpu+gpu together, with room to go push/pull.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> My bitfenix prodigy, I think fits it just fine


I'm actually considering a build like yours. It's a bit cramped for all the water cooling hardware that I want to put in it, but I think I can shoehorn it in.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I just watched your YouTube video of the problems that you've been having with the H100i. I've heard that these are fairly common problems that Corsair has been having with these units. You will definitely like our H220 quite a lot more. Let me know what you think of our fans too.


I hope so too, thanks!


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I'm actually considering a build like yours. It's a bit cramped for all the water cooling hardware that I want to put in it, but I think I can shoehorn it in.


Yea, that is kinda why I'm so excited for this release, I think its going to be a very tight fit to get everything in, but I really wanna see it









The AD2, which was what I was looking at most before I saw this, was just too powerful and noisy. I didn't feel like the 150$ was worth it, for such a small simple loop I wanted to set up.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> Arc Midi R2 is coming out in March. Supports a 240mm in top or front, no modding. It looks like 280mm would work, but can't really tell.


This is the case I'm planning to get. 240 top and front, 120 in back, and if you wanted you could also put a 120 bottom. If you take out the drive bay you can also put a 360 up top as well.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Yea, that is kinda why I'm so excited for this release, I think its going to be a very tight fit to get everything in, but I really wanna see it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The AD2, which was what I was looking at most before I saw this, was just too powerful and noisy. I didn't feel like the 150$ was worth it, for such a small simple loop I wanted to set up.


Check out the videos by Ronsanut and Singularity PC on YouTube. They both have built water cooling rigs in Prodigy cases that look amazing.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> This is the case I'm planning to get. 240 top and front, 120 in back, and if you wanted you could also put a 120 bottom. If you take out the drive bay you can also put a 360 up top as well.


you can mount a 240 on top, but not same time with 120 rear. Front can do 240 and bottom 120 with cage gone.
As for a 360, that is a maybe as no proper mounting and spacing. A 280 rad might also fit, but that will depend on mobo clearance.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Check out the videos by Ronsanut and Singularity PC on YouTube. They both have built water cooling rigs in Prodigy cases that look amazing.


Yea, the prodigy I got as an intermediary to a scratch case. It bares a shocking resemblance to my design, and I needed to get it after seeing some of the builds. I haven't finished the sketchups yet to really do it, but the format is similar in my mind, but using a picoPSU instead, to be able to trim it down even more width wise. I don't think I'll build another system larger than the prodigy. I'm considering selling my NZXT-Zero-2 system and using the prodigy as my main until I complete my scratch box design and build.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> you can mount a 240 on top, but not same time with 120 rear. Front can do 240 and bottom 120 with cage gone.
> As for a 360, that is a maybe as no proper mounting and spacing. A 280 rad might also fit, but that will depend on mobo clearance.


You can make a 360 fit up top pretty easily. Drill out the drive bay, and you can either mount through mesh/honeycomb that is made for the fan that goes in the drive bay, or just drill new holes. Didn't know about not being able to do a 120 in back, but its not a big deal for me as I wasn't planning on using it anyways. I also don't think a 280 will fit without modding, but we'll see in march.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> You can make a 360 fit up top pretty easily. Drill out the drive bay, and you can either mount through mesh/honeycomb that is made for the fan that goes in the drive bay, or just drill new holes. Didn't know about not being able to do a 120 in back, but its not a big deal for me as I wasn't planning on using it anyways. I also don't think a 280 will fit without modding, but we'll see in march.


The top has mounting for 2x 140mm fans. Havent got the spacing yet for 140mm fans. Either 15 or 20mm. 280 rad might have issues with ram or mobo clearance.
As for the 360 rad, the placement will be a problem with the mobo. That is the reason 240 rad is pushed towards side to give clearance.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> head pressure by itself is somewhat meaningless but still more important than max discharge. The reason for this is that most actual system flow rates are around 1 to 1.5 GPM, so practically about 1/4 (sometimes even less) of the maximum discharge (max flow rate), so just looking at the Max head pressure on different pumps does give a good idea of which will give the best actual flow rate.


Not really. Max values are meaningless because what matters is how the P/Q curve looks.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Davron*
> 
> Does this mean that there isn't any benefit to two pumps vs one like you have with your x2 product if you specify the design instead of repurposing the pump? I think I'm unclear as to the definition of static pressure in this case. Is this the 0 flow maximum lift? If so that is still just a bit more than half of what the x2 puts out. But pumps are all different, so that doesn't necessarily say what it would do at 1.5 gpm, right?
> 
> I'm glad you have taken charge of your own destiny by spooling up your own design and fabrication. I'm assuming that you are going to have some trouble meeting the initial demand of the H220 by itself, much less providing stand alone pumps. Do you think you'll get a handle of that by the middle of the year such that you can release the stand-alone? I'd love a second pump in my Switch 810 and if you can keep it quiet like this one, it would be a really good fit and just in time for my drain and fill.


Nope. Calculating the flow of any loop is not something easy. For any give flow you have, you will have a different restriction (restriction goes up with flow). So, the only way to calculate what kind of flow your loop will have would be to cross a P/Q curve from your loops restriction against a P/Q curve of a pump.

Having 2 pumps gives different benefits depending on how you have them.

a) Series. You have double max pressure. If the loop is very restrictive you will have a lot better performance... and, at the same time, you add redundancy to your loop (aka, if one pump dies water won't boil...)
b) Paralel. You have double max flow. If the loop isn't restrictive, you will have better performance. Same as before, you will have redundancy.

At this day and age, I'd get 2 pumps whenever I have a kinda big loop, if anything because of redundancy. At the end of the day, when you are expending like $500 in wcing parts, it would be stupid not to add another $60 for another pump and be totally safe.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Yea, that is kinda why I'm so excited for this release, I think its going to be a very tight fit to get everything in, but I really wanna see it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The AD2, which was what I was looking at most before I saw this, was just too powerful and noisy. I didn't feel like the 150$ was worth it, for such a small simple loop I wanted to set up.


What?! AD2 is fully PWM capable. So, its as noisy and powerful as you want to make it.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Not really. Max values are meaningless because what matters is how the P/Q curve looks.


Just like I said, "somewhat" meaningless.
If pump A has 20% more head pressure than pump B, then it would take pump B to have a pretty high max. discharge to have a better actual flow rate with most LC systems which typically run between 1 and 2 GPM. Cause let's face it the actual shape of the curves are not so different.

Only efficient way to determine flow rate is to know both the PQ curve of the pump and the actual pressure drop curve of the entire system, the intersection giving the actual flow rate. You can just measure it.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> What?! AD2 is fully PWM capable. So, its as noisy and powerful as you want to make it.


Let me slightly revise and say it has more potential power than I would ever need to use, I have heard some issues with pump hum beyond a normal sound, and also it was more expensive than I wanted to spend because it was significant overkill for the system I had intended.


----------



## Bruennis

This thing had better beat a Phanteks with 3 x 140mm fans...


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bruennis*
> 
> This thing had better beat a Phanteks with 3 x 140mm fans...


It should beat it on temps, and smash it on noise, and that is with only the 2 fans that come stock.


----------



## Vlada011

Guys what is best investment I mean maybe for two platform. Swiftech H220 or MCR220 Drive Radiator with Integrated Pump.
Is it one MCP355 enough for two 240mm radiator and CPU/GPU configuration. One CPU i7 and one HydroCopper craphic card???
Because that system can stay and for next platform not only 1155. Price is more expensive for one CPU waterblock.


----------



## Neo Zuko

I am trying to decide if I should go with the fans in this Swiftech H220 kit, the Swiftech Helix 120 PWM fans, or just use my GT AP-15 fans. The GT fan has dual ball bearing for durability (good for vertical or horizontal placement too) as one of its best features, while the Helix fans have PWM with a GT fan-like blade design (but no dual ball bearing, it uses some sort of hybrid sleeve design I think). I am starting to think that the PWM feature might win me over though, as the GT fans need a fan controller, and the Helix might just as dandy with a high end ROG motherboard controlling it. What is better, a GT fan set up with say an Aquaero XT, or just get the Swiftech Helix wiith PWM on my Rampage IV extreme, save some money for other parts. I mean the Swiftech Maelstrom Res I am getting does temp monitoring and sports dual pumps, which make the shut down/monitoring features on the Aquaero 5 XT less important (should one pump fail, the other one hums along just fine). In fact, it seems hard to justify the Aquaero 5 XT at those prices at all. Flow rate monitoring is the only thing I think it would be useful for as the Maelstrom does temp. The other thing is how smooth does the GT AP-15 undervolt vs the Swiftech Helix PWM control. And how good is the Switech Helix hybrid sleeve bearing with both fan orientations, vertical and horizontal?


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> I am trying to decide if I should go with the fans in this Swiftech H220 kit, the Swiftech Helix 120 PWM fans, or just use my GT AP-15 fans. The GT fan has dual ball bearing for durability (good for vertical or horizontal placement too) as one of its best features, while the Helix fans have PWM with a GT fan-like blade design (but no dual ball bearing, it uses some sort of hybrid sleeve design I think). I am starting to think that the PWM feature might win me over though, as the GT fans need a fan controller, and the Helix might just as dandy with a high end ROG motherboard controlling it. What is better, a GT fan set up with say an Aquaero XT, or just get the Swiftech Helix wiith PWM on my Rampage IV extreme, save some money for other parts. I mean the Swiftech Maelstrom Res I am getting does temp monitoring and sports dual pumps, which make the shut down/monitoring features on the Aquaero 5 XT less important (should one pump fail, the other one hums along just fine). In fact, it seems hard to justify the Aquaero 5 XT at those prices at all. Flow rate monitoring is the only thing I think it would be useful for as the Maelstrom does temp. The other thing is how smooth does the GT AP-15 undervolt vs the Swiftech Helix PWM control. And how good is the Switech Helix hybrid sleeve bearing with both fan orientations, vertical and horizontal?


I don't think this will replace the higher end watercooling gear you are talking about having in your loop. Though, you could of course use it to augment it. The H220 is more of an AIO / Intro easy set, that is opening the door to the higher function equipment you are talking about.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vlada011*
> 
> Guys what is best investment I mean maybe for two platform. Swiftech H220 or MCR220 Drive Radiator with Integrated Pump.
> Is it one MCP355 enough for two 240mm radiator and CPU/GPU configuration. One CPU i7 and one HydroCopper craphic card???
> Because that system can stay and for next platform not only 1155. Price is more expensive for one CPU waterblock.


One of the test systems they came out with was a H220 with a 2nd rad and 2 GPUs, and it ran everything just fine. I just picked up a GTX580 HydroGen on a deal, and I'll be throwing that in with my 3770k, the stock rad and res, and an additional 220-QP with helixes. You'll be fine


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> I am trying to decide if I should go with the fans in this Swiftech H220 kit, the Swiftech Helix 120 PWM fans, or just use my GT AP-15 fans. The GT fan has dual ball bearing for durability (good for vertical or horizontal placement too) as one of its best features, while the Helix fans have PWM with a GT fan-like blade design (but no dual ball bearing, it uses some sort of hybrid sleeve design I think). I am starting to think that the PWM feature might win me over though, as the GT fans need a fan controller, and the Helix might just as dandy with a high end ROG motherboard controlling it. What is better, a GT fan set up with say an Aquaero XT, or just get the Swiftech Helix wiith PWM on my Rampage IV extreme, save some money for other parts. I mean the Swiftech Maelstrom Res I am getting does temp monitoring and sports dual pumps, which make the shut down/monitoring features on the Aquaero 5 XT less important (should one pump fail, the other one hums along just fine). In fact, it seems hard to justify the Aquaero 5 XT at those prices at all. Flow rate monitoring is the only thing I think it would be useful for as the Maelstrom does temp. The other thing is how smooth does the GT AP-15 undervolt vs the Swiftech Helix PWM control. And how good is the Switech Helix hybrid sleeve bearing with both fan orientations, vertical and horizontal?


Why would you want to mix so many different parts? If you are getting a Maelstrom I see no reason to get an H220, seriously. At the same time, if you plan to get an Aquaero XT, you really need to think exactly what you want it to do. Keep in mind that all new Swiftech products are coming with PWM functions (well, at least those that can use it







) which means that the needs to use an external controller are less and less important... but to each his own.

My point being: the H220 is an "entry-level" LC kit... or a "high-end" AIO. If you are even considering something like a Maelstrom or Aquaero XT... the H220 is not the product you should be looking for, as they are in totally opposed sides of the coin.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vlada011*
> 
> Guys what is best investment I mean maybe for two platform. Swiftech H220 or MCR220 Drive Radiator with Integrated Pump.
> Is it one MCP355 enough for two 240mm radiator and CPU/GPU configuration. One CPU i7 and one HydroCopper craphic card???
> Because that system can stay and for next platform not only 1155. Price is more expensive for one CPU waterblock.


Either setup will work fine for what you need. The only thing you'd need to mount the H220 on later sockets is a bracket set available for $10 (same as Apogee Drive 2).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> I am trying to decide if I should go with the fans in this Swiftech H220 kit, the Swiftech Helix 120 PWM fans, or just use my GT AP-15 fans. The GT fan has dual ball bearing for durability (good for vertical or horizontal placement too) as one of its best features, while the Helix fans have PWM with a GT fan-like blade design (but no dual ball bearing, it uses some sort of hybrid sleeve design I think). I am starting to think that the PWM feature might win me over though, as the GT fans need a fan controller, and the Helix might just as dandy with a high end ROG motherboard controlling it. What is better, a GT fan set up with say an Aquaero XT, or just get the Swiftech Helix wiith PWM on my Rampage IV extreme, save some money for other parts. I mean the Swiftech Maelstrom Res I am getting does temp monitoring and sports dual pumps, which make the shut down/monitoring features on the Aquaero 5 XT less important (should one pump fail, the other one hums along just fine). In fact, it seems hard to justify the Aquaero 5 XT at those prices at all. Flow rate monitoring is the only thing I think it would be useful for as the Maelstrom does temp. The other thing is how smooth does the GT AP-15 undervolt vs the Swiftech Helix PWM control. And how good is the Switech Helix hybrid sleeve bearing with both fan orientations, vertical and horizontal?


Helix fans are cheaper, look better, perform scary similar (by design), but PWM is where it's at







.


----------



## Neo Zuko

My thinking was to bypass the GT fans for the helix fans as they have PWM, Save money by skipping fan controlling, and I might get the H220 just to hold me over, then add to it. Or I could just skip the H220 and go right for the main deal, but either way I was thinking of dropping my plans for the Aquaero and going for PWM only control.


----------



## Davron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> In the price range of under $200 I'd look at the Switch 810 and the Cooler Master Storm Trooper/Striker. Both of these cases are great for installing dual 2x120mm fan radiators without modding. I love my Switch 810 and I know quite a few people that also love their Storm Trooper/Striker cases.


With only minor mods you can even fit a 3x140 and a 2x140 60mm both, but you do need to get creative with that as I learned. So yeah... a 220 and a 320 in a Switch 810 would be super simple... and 2 220s would be laughably easy. Even with my radiators mine still looks stock. I like that about this case.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Ok, now that I settled on the Swiftech Helix PWM 120mm fans for my Merlin SM8 CaseLabs Build, I need two of those Swiftech 8-way PWM units that come with the H220. I need buy two separately, help me out Swiftech vendor reps? I am using like 16 Swiftech fans, so that would be perfect. Most likely I will go with the Apogee Drive 2 however. So I defiantly need two of them.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Ok, now that I settled on the Swiftech Helix PWM 120mm fans for my Merlin SM8 CaseLabs Build, I need two of those Swiftech 8-way PWM units that come with the H220. I need buy two separately, help me out Swiftech vendor reps? I am using like 16 Swiftech fans, so that would be perfect. Most likely I will go with the Apogee Drive 2 however. So I defiantly need two of them.


I'll remind Gabe about this - we have the product in stock, just a matter of creating the product in website/accounting, you know that type of things


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Ok, now that I settled on the Swiftech Helix PWM 120mm fans for my Merlin SM8 CaseLabs Build, I need two of those Swiftech 8-way PWM units that come with the H220. I need buy two separately, help me out Swiftech vendor reps? I am using like 16 Swiftech fans, so that would be perfect. Most likely I will go with the Apogee Drive 2 however. So I defiantly need two of them.


I've been looking at that new Case Labs case too for a future build. Let me know what you think of it.


----------



## Neo Zuko

So far so good, just needs more Swiftech products in it. Just buy this case, its the last case you will ever want. I never felt like that with other cases.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> So far so good, just needs more Swiftech products in it. Just buy this case, its the last case you will ever want. I never felt like that with other cases.
> ]


Looks pretty good so far. Can't wait to see it full of Swiftech water cooling components.


----------



## Bruennis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> So far so good, just needs more Swiftech products in it. Just buy this case, its the last case you will ever want. I never felt like that with other cases.


~$400 bucks for a case!


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bruennis*
> 
> ~$400 bucks for a case!


Hey, if it's the last case you ever buy, that it isn't really that bad of a price. If you purchase a $150 case every couple of years or so that adds up. One $400 dollar case and you're done.


----------



## ez12a

the corsair 900D looks like a nice "forever" case too lol


----------



## Bruennis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Hey, if it's the last case you ever buy, that it isn't really that bad of a price. If you purchase a $150 case every couple of years or so that adds up. One $400 dollar case and you're done.


It's a beautiful fully functional case but I bore easily and switch out cases like women changing underwear









...But I see where you're getting at. To some, this case can be the investment of a lifetime


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bruennis*
> 
> It's a beautiful fully functional case but I bore easily and switch out cases like women changing underwear
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...But I see where you're getting at. To some, this case can be the investment of a lifetime


I know what you mean about cases. I thought my HAF X was going to be the last one I ever needed. That was until I saw the Switch 810 and what it could do. I would love to go the Case Labs route, but I just don't have the disposable income to spend on it right now. I'm also looking at possibly going with a more compact type of build in a Prodigy case. If I go that route then Case Labs will definitely be out of the question.


----------



## SkateZilla

Definately might be looking at one of these to replace my H100.

it'd be nice if I can get a SwiftTech Full Cover heatsink for my 7950 and the water block for it, and expand the system to cover the GPU.

question on teh expansion is, how easy will it be.. will it be simple buy the waterblock and put the hoses on pre-sealed ports or what?


----------



## Neo Zuko

I spent way more than 400 dollars total on cases before I ordered this CaseLabs case. Must of bought and tried a good half dozen easy. Nothing seemed to do ALL I wanted, or the build quality was off, so I kept switching them out. No so with CaseLabs. The quality is top notch, the service is top notch, and if you want something they didn't do in the base model, they have a modular add on that does the trick. They thought of just about everything.


----------



## Bruennis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I know what you mean about cases. I thought my HAF X was going to be the last one I ever needed. That was until I saw the Switch 810 and what it could do. I would love to go the Case Labs route, but I just don't have the disposable income to spend on it right now. I'm also looking at possibly going with a more compact type of build in a Prodigy case. If I go that route then Case Labs will definitely be out of the question.


Since last May... I started with the Antec Nine Hundred, switched to the Fractal Design Arc Mini (Found it too small for my liking...), upgraded to its bigger brother the Arc Midi (Defective), finally made the switch back to Antec - the Eleven Hundred (Too big for mid tower and no support for 240mm radiator), and then now I've found my peace and solace in the Fractal Design Define R4...


----------



## SkateZilla

HAF 922/932


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkateZilla*
> 
> Definately might be looking at one of these to replace my H100.
> 
> it'd be nice if I can get a SwiftTech Full Cover heatsink for my 7950 and the water block for it, and expand the system to cover the GPU.
> 
> question on teh expansion is, how easy will it be.. will it be simple buy the waterblock and put the hoses on pre-sealed ports or what?


Here's how easy this is to expand upon. If you're just adding a GPU water block all you'll need to do is first, drain the H220, connect a hose from the CPU water block to the GPU water block using either compression or barb fittings, run a hose from the GPU back up to the reservoir/radiator, and you're done. You may need extra tubing for this and you'll also need to refill the unit once the other block is installed. It really isn't that difficult once you take a look at it.


----------



## SkateZilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Here's how easy this is to expand upon. If you're just adding a GPU water block all you'll need to do is first, drain the H220, connect a hose from the CPU water block to the GPU water block using either compression or barb fittings, run a hose from the GPU back up to the reservoir/radiator, and you're done. You may need extra tubing for this and you'll also need to refill the unit once the other block is installed. It really isn't that difficult once you take a look at it.


might as well build my own loop, lol.

Sounds easy, SwifTech should have "expansion kits"

Buy the H220, then buy the "GPU Expansion kit" which comes with the block and hoses...

That our I continue with my plan to buy the SwifTech 790 Heatsink and dremel it out to fit a H80 Block in it.


----------



## BramSLI1

SkateZilla, I just checked the card that you've got in your Chevron 11 build and being that it's a reference based card you shouldn't have any problem using our full-cover heat sink and universal MCW82-7900 water block with it.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkateZilla*
> 
> might as well build my own loop, lol.
> 
> Sounds easy, SwifTech should have "expansion kits"
> 
> Buy the H220, then buy the "GPU Expansion kit" which comes with the block and hoses...
> 
> That our I continue with my plan to buy the SwifTech 790 Heatsink and dremel it out to fit a H80 Block in it.


The kind of expansion kit that you're talking about would be extremely difficult to make due to the fact that there are so many different configurations that it would need to accommodate. With some cases the hoses would either be too long or too short and people would want this to be a simple install-it-and-forget-it solution. There are just too many variables to be able to have pre-made kits like that.


----------



## SkateZilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> The kind of expansion kit that you're talking about would be extremely difficult to make due to the fact that there are so many different configurations that it would need to accommodate. With some cases the hoses would either be too long or too short and people would want this to be a simple install-it-and-forget-it solution. There are just too many variables to be able to have pre-made kits like that.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> SkateZilla, I just checked the card that you've got in your Chevron 11 build and being that it's a reference based card you shouldn't have any problem using our full-cover heat sink and universal MCW82-7900 water block with it.


Yeah i was looking at that, I'll shuffle around stuff, and see which is cheaper,

Prefilled loop adapted to GPU
(H80+Bracket+Shim+ST Heatsink+Dremel Tool Time+a Fan to go on the heatsink)

or Custom Loop, that I can expand to CPU too if I wanted too.
(MCW82-7900 + SW Heatsink + hoses + radiator + pump + tank + coolant and a minute or two to fill)


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkateZilla*
> 
> Yeah i was looking at that, I'll shuffle around stuff, and see which is cheaper,
> 
> (prefilled loop adapted to GPU) or Custom Loop, that I can expand to CPU too if I wanted too.


Sounds good, glad I was able to help.


----------



## WALSRU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I'm also looking at possibly going with a more compact type of build in a Prodigy case. If I go that route then Case Labs will definitely be out of the question.


I like my Prodigy a lot but it's not nearly small enough. What you need is the NCASE M1. Looks very similar to my acrylic project layout-wise.

But really, I used to haul my Phantom everywhere and I could never go back to even a mid-tower now.


----------



## SkateZilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Sounds good, glad I was able to help.


i should prolly check the "Kits" on the ST page instead of individual parts then.. lol..

I guess i'd have to look a bit into it, I got a while before temps outside creep up.

If i could, I'd cut the lines to the H100, put 2 sided Hose connectors, and mount a water block, but the H100 tubes are this stiff plastic feeling crap, plus there's no "fill port"


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> I like my Prodigy a lot but it's not nearly small enough. What you need is the NCASE M1. Looks very similar to my acrylic project layout-wise.
> 
> But really, I used to haul my Phantom everywhere and I could never go back to even a mid-tower now.


Thanks for the heads up. That case is perfect for what I'm thinking about doing. I haven't seen it or heard of it before, but I will definitely keep an eye on it.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkateZilla*
> 
> i should prolly check the "Kits" on the ST page instead of individual parts then.. lol..
> 
> I guess i'd have to look a bit into it, I got a while before temps outside creep up.


The kits will save you some money too.


----------



## SkateZilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> The kits will save you some money too.


We need GPU All in one kits, lol

I hope a Video guide to adding a GPU block to the loop appears on Youtube,

written instructions with images just dont work for me, but do it in front of me in person, and I got it down the first time. wierd like that.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkateZilla*
> 
> We need GPU All in one kits, lol
> 
> I hope a Video guide to adding a GPU block to the loop appears on Youtube,
> 
> written instructions with images just dont work for me, but do it in front of me in person, and I got it down the first time. wierd like that.


A video guide is something that we're going to be working on. We realize that sometimes having just written instructions doesn't cut it for everyone. Adding a GPU water block can be complicated without a good set of instructions. Once we have a video guide we'll post it on our website and on YouTube.


----------



## SkateZilla

awesome.


----------



## os2wiz

Spent $119 with free shipping for my super tower. Rosewill Blackhawk Ultra Gaming case. . AS large as any case on market,Mostly metallic with front and top mesh for air flow. 3 230mm fans for side and top ventilation, 4 x140mm fans for hard drive cage. Completely toolless. Room for 360mm radiator at top if fans are removed from top for water cooling. My case can install 2 power supplies if necessary. .
So I got what you did for about $270 less. makes me feel like a genius.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> A video guide is something that we're going to be working on. We realize that sometimes having just written instructions doesn't cut it for everyone. Adding a GPU water block can be complicated without a good set of instructions. Once we have a video guide we'll post it on our website and on YouTube.


This is a must have, to those of us who have never done it, a good video will actually make you more inclined to buy the product because you will feel comfortable expanding it.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bruennis*
> 
> ~$400 bucks for a case!


Got my Rosewill Blackhawk Ultra Super Tower gaming case for $114.99 delivered. It is tool less and has 3 230mm top and side fans. 4 140mm hard drive cage fans and one 140mm rear exhaust fan. Room for an optional second psu, wire mesh front and top panels. Room for 360mm radiator on top if I uninstall the 2 top 230mm fans. So I feel like Einstein I have every bit as functional and quality super tower case for $280 less than you paid.


----------



## SkateZilla

I'd build my own loop is i wasnt petrified about leaks shorting everything out... roflamo


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Spent $119 with free shipping for my super tower. Rosewill Blackhawk Ultra Gaming case. . AS large as any case on market,Mostly metallic with front and top mesh for air flow. 3 230mm fans for side and top ventilation, 4 x140mm fans for hard drive cage. Completely toolless. Room for 360mm radiator at top if fans are removed from top for water cooling. My case can install 2 power supplies if necessary. .
> So I got what you did for about $270 less. makes me feel like a genius.


That Rosewill case isn't bad, it just doesn't have the expansion options or the modularity of a Case Labs case. For the money though, it's definitely one of the better cases on the market.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Got my Rosewill Blackhwal Ultra Super Tower gaming case for $114.99 delivered. It is tool less and has 3 230mm top and side fansd. 4 140mm hard drive cage fans and one 140mm rear exhaust fan. Rooom for an optional second psu, wire mesh front and top panels. Room for 360mm radiator on top if I uninstall the 2 top 230mm fans. Soi I feel like Einstein I have every bit as functional and quaity for $280 less than you paid.


No offense, but you get what you pay for. The Blackhawk is a decent case for its price, but it isn't comparable in quality, durability, or even versatility compared to something like a 900D, or especially a caselabs case. You can fit more, get better airflow(and temps), and have a quieter case if you pay that extra amount of money.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkateZilla*
> 
> I'd build my own loop is i wasnt petrified about leaks shorting everything out... roflamo


I know what you mean. When I was first learning about putting my own computer together about 7 years ago I asked the guy that was teaching me if he would help me learn about water cooling. He said that he just didn't trust it and that he felt it wasn't worth the risk. I decided to purchase a kit and try it on my own. It was a Swiftech Apogee Drive 350 and a separate MCR120 radiator/reservoir. After installing it and watching my temps drop dramatically, I was hooked and never thought once about going back to air cooling. If you know what you're doing, and properly leak-check everything there is very little risk involved. Once installed and leak-checked these products will very rarely develop leaks over time. Most people change out their components so frequently anyway that by the time an o-ring or a block could have the potential to fail, it's already been changed out with something new. I'm talking about more than 5 or 6 years of run time.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I know what you mean. When I was first learning about putting my own computer together about 7 years ago I asked the guy that was teaching me if he would help me learn about water cooling. He said that he just didn't trust it and that he felt it wasn't worth the risk. I decided to purchase a kit and try it on my own. It was a Swiftech Apogee Drive 350 and a separate MCR120 radiator/reservoir. After installing it and watching my temps drop dramatically, I was hooked and never thought once about going back to air cooling. If you know what you're doing, and properly leak-check everything there is very little risk involved. Once installed and leak-checked these products will very rarely develop leaks over time. Most people change out their components so frequently anyway that by the time an o-ring or a block could have the potential to fail, it's already been changed out with something new. I'm talking about more than 5 or 6 years of run time.


Really, considering the simplicity and the (normally) good conditions of water loops, the risk isn't that high. The biggest worry I have about water cooling is honestly the addiction part of it. I can only upgrade my computer so much, but it seems like it'd be so much easier to justify adding parts to your loop. A rad is no big deal, a block isn't that bad, modding your case to force that bigger rad in isn't too big of a deal. The temptation will be a lot harder to resist. Granted, just looking at my bank account should be good enough to stop those temptations!









Granted, you people at Swiftech probably love that part of watercooling!


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Really, considering the simplicity and the (normally) good conditions of water loops, the risk isn't that high. The biggest worry I have about water cooling is honestly the addiction part of it. I can only upgrade my computer so much, but it seems like it'd be so much easier to justify adding parts to your loop. A rad is no big deal, a block isn't that bad, modding your case to force that bigger rad in isn't too big of a deal. The temptation will be a lot harder to resist. Granted, just looking at my bank account should be good enough to stop those temptations!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Granted, you people at Swiftech probably love that part of watercooling!


Why do you think we make the kinds of products that we do? This is the whole reason behind making our kits as user-friendly and easy to install as possible. Part of my job is to make you guys feel safe about our products so that you feel confident in buying them. I'm probably giving away too much and Gabe will yell at me, but I'm an addict myself. Just look at my own rig. Do I really need that kind of performance? Of course not, but it sure is fun to build and look at. This is what consumer water cooling is all about. It's not just about performance, it's about looks and the enjoyment of putting something like this together yourself. It's a hobby and like all hobbies it can be addictive. With that being said, I really do love my job because it gives me the opportunity to talk about a hobby that I really enjoy. I hope that I've also helped some of you get a little more enjoyment out of this hobby as well.


----------



## Neo Zuko

If I wanted a small case, I'd do the SM5 (5 PCI slots) with a ROG Gene board, even with a pedestal for max rads it would be on the small side but still useful. That's the reason I did the SM8 (8 PCI slots) over the ST10 (10 PCI slots) as I've said. That and I wanted EATX. You could fit a H220 in a SM5 easy...


----------



## Neo Zuko

Edit for double post.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> If I wanted a small case, I'd do the SM5 (5 PCI slots) with a ROG Gene board, even with a pedestal for max rads it would be on the small side but still useful. That's the reason I did the SM8 (8 PCI slots) over the ST10 (10 PCI slots) as I've said. That and I wanted EATX. You could fit a H220 in a SM5 easy...


One of the nice things about the H220 is that it's versatile enough to fit into many different cases and it gives so many configuration options because of its modularity. It's small footprint compared to a fully custom water cooling kit is going to allow some really cool looking rigs to be build with it.


----------



## Neo Zuko

True, tho the H220 only has a thin 120.2 rad. Great for its target market and you can add rads but not in the same spot due to the built in res and inlets/outlets. And with the Merlin case series, you should go for a 120.3 rad at least (it fits 120.4 up top). But there is that other Swiftech 120.3 kit with the Apogee Drive II that fills that notch anyway. If you had a 120.4 kit, hell, I might not even bother with my SR-1 rads.

For my starting kit, I'm going for the Apogee Drive II, the Maelstrom Res (no Pumps), my Aqua Computer MSI N680GTX waterblock, 8 black compression fittings (avoiding plating), white Advanced LRT tubing, Swiftech Helix PWM 120mm fans, distilled water, PT Nuke PHN, and a 360 SR-1 rad. Then I'll add more pumps to the Maelstrom, add more rads, ETC.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> True, tho the H220 only has a thin 120.2 rad. Great for its target market and you can add rads but not in the same spot due to the built in res and inlets/outlets. And with the Merlin case series, you should go for a 120.3 rad at least (it fits 120.4 up top). But there is that other Swiftech 120.3 kit with the Apogee Drive II that fills that notch anyway. If you had a 120.4 kit, hell, I might not even bother with my SR-1 rads.


You can always just add a 120.4 rad to this kit and you'll be fine. The pump can certainly handle it and that will allow you to cool just about any configuration that you want.


----------



## Phelan

I have an Apogee Drive 2, but, given the opportunity, I would have bought the H220 over it, even if I wasn't going to use the included rad, because the price is phenomenal IMHO. I paid $145 for my AD2. At $140, the H220 comes with an equally-performing block/pump combo (since my AD2 nevers runs above 2K RPMs), but quieter, and has 2 Helix PWM fans (at least $15/ea after shipping) and an 8-way PWM splitter that will cost who knows how much. The fans and splitter add $40-50 to the value, plus a radiator that I can keep or sell. The only reason I'd ever consider the AD2 over the H220 is if I insisted on using compression fittings on the unit.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> You can always just add a 120.4 rad to this kit and you'll be fine. The pump can certainly handle it and that will allow you to cool just about any configuration that you want.


I suppose come upgrade time you could use the new 120.4 up top and move that original H220 120.2 rad down below say, assuming you bought a better res too. What I was saying is that you can't just add on in the same spot, so if you're buying for that spot you should buy to fill the spot up, so having a longer 120.3 rad would better maximize a 120.4 area. So that why a 120.3 kit is ideal for the Merlin series, as 120.3 fills the rad space without taking room away from the front bays (as a 120.4 does).


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> I have an Apogee Drive 2, but, given the opportunity, I would have bought the H220 over it, even if I wasn't going to use the included rad, because the price is phenomenal IMHO. I paid $145 for my AD2. At $140, the H220 comes with an equally-performing block/pump combo (*since my AD2 nevers runs above 2K RPMs*), but quieter, and has 2 Helix PWM fans (at least $15/ea after shipping) and an 8-way PWM splitter that will cost who knows how much. The fans and splitter add $40-50 to the value, plus a radiator that I can keep or sell. The only reason I'd ever consider the AD2 over the H220 is if I insisted on using compression fittings on the unit.


Congratulations, you have outlined why so many of us are very happy about this product offering. Particularly the bold


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> I suppose come upgrade time you could use the new 120.4 up top and move that original H220 120.2 rad down below say, assuming you bought a better res too. What I was saying is that you can't just add on in the same spot, so if you're buying for that spot you should buy to fill the spot up, so having a longer 120.3 rad would better maximize a 120.4 area. So that why a 120.3 kit is ideal for the Merlin series, as 120.3 fills the rad space without taking room away from the front bays (as a 120.4 does).


You do know that we're working on releasing a 120.3 model of this same kit? This should give you the ability to fill the space in the manner that you're talking about.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> I have an Apogee Drive 2, but, given the opportunity, I would have bought the H220 over it, even if I wasn't going to use the included rad, because the price is phenomenal IMHO. I paid $145 for my AD2. At $140, the H220 comes with an equally-performing block/pump combo (since my AD2 nevers runs above 2K RPMs), but quieter, and has 2 Helix PWM fans (at least $15/ea after shipping) and an 8-way PWM splitter that will cost who knows how much. The fans and splitter add $40-50 to the value, plus a radiator that I can keep or sell. The only reason I'd ever consider the AD2 over the H220 is if I insisted on using compression fittings on the unit.


Actually the compression fittings are one of the main reasons that I wanted the Apogee Drive 2 over the H220 kit. That and for better heatsink and the red Swiftech logo!! I figured on not running at max pump, but how much quieter is the H220 vs the AD2? But you make a strong argument for sure... when you add up the 2 fans ($25) and PWM hub ($10 - Yep, I just got he word on this. I'm buying two of them for sure), pump ($75-$100) yea, you are saving there... Makes the rad just about free. Hard choice really.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> You do know that we're working on releasing a 120.3 model of this same kit? This should give you the ability to fill the space in the manner that you're talking about.


I do now!!! LoL!! ETA?

Swiftech and CaseLabs should just partner up and offer a watercooling bundle!! I totally take credit for this if it happens


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> I do now!!! LoL!! ETA?
> 
> Swiftech and CaseLabs should just partner up and offer a watercooling bundle!! I totally take credit for this if it happens


About a month to two months after the H220 is released.


----------



## Neo Zuko

This is a pretty active thread huh?? We are like talking in real time... Barely squeezed out my edits!!

Is the H220 really quieter? I need to do some reading...

Oh and while I'm bending your ear, I really wish the Maelstrom did not come with a top fill cap that is plated, I'm avoiding all plating products I can, as well as silver. Just copper and brass for me. However I suppose that that the top fill cap is not exactly submersed so it's ok... But I still don't like it...


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> This is a pretty active thread huh?? We are like talking in real time... Barely squeezed out my edits!!
> 
> Is the H220 really quieter? I need to do some reading...
> 
> Oh and while I'm bending your ear, I really wish the Maelstrom did not come with a top fill cap that is plated, I'm avoiding all plating products I can, as well as silver. Just copper and brass for me. However I suppose that that the top fill cap is not exactly submersed so it's ok... But I still don't like it...


Yes, the pump in our H220 isn't a DDC pump like the one that we used in the APD II. It's our own in-house pump designed to perform up to enthusiast level and produce less noise. Check out some of the videos on YouTube by just going to the ones that we have links to on our website. They will confirm how powerful and quiet this pump really is.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Yes, the pump in our H220 isn't a DDC pump like the one that we used in the APD II. It's our own in-house pump designed to perform up to enthusiast level and produce less noise. Check out some of the videos on YouTube by just going to the ones that we have links to on our website. They will confirm how powerful and quiet this pump really is.


Cool. Does the H220 have a Pump Heatsink? Does it produce less heat? Or is that honeycomb thing just for looks?

I'll read up as much I can right now...


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Cool. Does the H220 have a Pump Heatsink? Does it produce less heat? Or is that honeycomb thing just for looks?


The plastic on top is just for looks. This pump is a 6 watt compared to the 18 watt of the MCP35X and therefore it produces considerably less heat. It doesn't require a heat sink due to the fact that it generates so little heat.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Wow, so perfect so far. Looking up tube size next... I really hope I can use 3/8 ID 5/8 OD, which is in fact Gabe's idea... I read former posts of his before on this.

And I really like that the fans come braided, unlike the Helix PWM fan when bought separately. Nice touch.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Wow, so perfect so far. Looking up tube size next... I really hope I can use 3/8 ID 5/8 OD, which is in fact Gabe's idea... I read former posts of his before on this.
> 
> And I really like that the fans come braided, unlike the Helix PWM fan when bought separately. Nice touch.


The tubing on the H220 is indeed 3/8x5/8".


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> About a month to two months after the H220 is released.


OK, I'll wait


----------



## Neo Zuko

I guess now I can expect a range of new pumps from Swiftech... I can't see them stopping at just this one application. Now I understand why.


----------



## Chrgnthru

I'm 90% certain i'll be returning my H100i back to Newegg and getthing this if it comes out before my return period is over.


----------



## Neo Zuko

My understanding of PWM is weak, so if I have a Rampage IV Extreme, 16 Swiftech Helix PWM 120mm fans, two of those Swiftech 8-way PWM spliters, a H220 or Apogee Drive 2, I would think I could hook up 8 fans to one PWM spliter to the CPU PWM fan socket, then the pump to the secondary PWM fan socket near the CPU area, then hook up the other 8 fans to a third PWM fan socket somewhere else, then Connect PSU power, and I should have 3 settings to set on my mobo, and then my fan control worries are over, yes? Any issues with this approach... Like does the pump PWM need to be in a specific spot?


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chrgnthru*
> 
> I'm 90% certain i'll be returning my H100i back to Newegg and getthing this if it comes out before my return period is over.


I'm selling mine for $65 lol. It up on another forum as I don't know if I can sell here yet, I think the rep levels need to be like in the 30's... And I have 4 points.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> My understanding of PWM is weak, so if I have a Rampage IV Extreme, 16 Swiftech Helix PWM 120mm fans, two of those Swiftech 8-way PWM spliters, a H220 or Apogee Drive 2, I would think I could hook up 8 fans to one PWM spliter to the CPU PWM fan socket, then the pump to the secondary PWM fan socket near the CPU area, then hook up the other 8 fans to a third PWM fan socket somewhere else, then Connect PSU power, and I should have 3 settings to set on my mobo, and then my fan control worries are over, yes? Any issues with this approach... Like does the pump PWM need to be in a specific spot?


PWM if i'm not mistaken allows the fan to receive a constant 12v. The PWM signal is what regulates the speed at the fan. to slow the fan speed the voltage to the fan remains constant but the PWM circuit is controlling the speed somehow.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> PWM if i'm not mistaken allows the fan to receive a constant 12v. The PWM signal is what regulates the speed at the fan.


I'm more worried about that pump plug in location. If its picky or needs to be in the CPU slot.

Edit: oh yea, I plan on dual pumps so that's at least 3 PWM settings using 3 Swiftech PWM spliters.

PWM Controls the speed by varying the pulse width modulation. Which of course stands for PWM.


----------



## Chrgnthru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> I'm selling mine for $65 lol. It up on another forum as I don't know if I can sell here yet, I think the rep levels need to be like in the 30's... And I have 4 points.


I'm in the same boat. I have to sell my stuff through Amazon. Luckily I have about 25 days left to return my H100 for a full refund.


----------



## BodenM

Does anyone know if Swiftech will make a 120.1 version of this?


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BodenM*
> 
> Does anyone know if Swiftech will make a 120.1 version of this?


I don't think so yet, IMHO if a single small 120mm rad is all you can fit, you have the wrong case to watercool with, and I think the allure of this kit is the expandable nature, tho I could be dead wrong too. Perhaps there is a market for a deluxe 120mm unit, but then this pump would be overkill... Perhaps a scaled down unit is incoming at say the $100 mark. Best magic 8-ball guess


----------



## BodenM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *BodenM*
> 
> Does anyone know if Swiftech will make a 120.1 version of this?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think so yet, IMHO if a single small 120mm rad is all you can fit, you have the wrong case to watercool with, and I think the allure of this kit is the expandable nature, tho I could be dead wrong too. Perhaps there is a market for a deluxe 120mm unit, but then this pump would be overkill... Perhaps a scaled down unit is incoming at say the $100 mark. Best magic 8-ball guess
Click to expand...

Might just have to buy the 240mm version and sell the radiator to buy a 180mm radiator then


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BodenM*
> 
> Might just have to buy the 240mm version and sell the radiator to buy a 180mm radiator then


I feel so dumb for not thinking of that. Then you get to keep the dual Helix PWM 120mm fans, but you would have to repurpose them as case fans or get a 120mm rad - But then you get to do push-pull which is nice on that size rad. Of course your other option would be to use the Apogee Drive 2.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BodenM*
> 
> Might just have to buy the 240mm version and sell the radiator to buy a 180mm radiator then


You will still need a reservoir, as the H220 is built into the rad.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkateZilla*
> 
> We need GPU All in one kits, lol


I use one for my GTX 670, the Arctic Cooling Accelero Hybrid Cooler.


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BodenM*
> 
> Does anyone know if Swiftech will make a 120.1 version of this?


if one read the thread, there was talk about a 120 possibly existing, but i dont think it was confirmed. Its existance will probably weigh heavily on how well the h220/h320 sells. its more or less on the same boat as the peopel who want to buy the cpu block/pump alone as some people want the extra pumping power for their loop without actually having to add an extra, well pump.


----------



## Phelan

An H120 model is not planned at all, but selling the pump separately down the road is, and I believe the pump/block combo will be sold individually down the road as well, but at a higher performance setting like the AD2. It wouldn't surprise me if they replace the AD2 with a new AD2 that uses the full 18w version of this new pump once supplies move.


----------



## Snuckie7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> An H120 model is not planned at all


One of the Swiftech reps did say it was something they're working on.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Well you could just buy a 120mm rad, a Swiftech Micro Res, and go with a H220 or AD2. No wait for that option.


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> An H120 model is not planned at all, but selling the pump separately down the road is, and I believe the pump/block combo will be sold individually down the road as well, but at a higher performance setting like the AD2. It wouldn't surprise me if they replace the AD2 with a new AD2 that uses the full 18w version of this new pump once supplies move.


refer to post 747


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dudewitbow*
> 
> refer to post 747


Them working on it doesn't mean they are actually working to produce it, he may have just meant that they are working on seeing if it is worth it or not. Considering they have 100% confirmed the 360 version, and not the 120, I wouldn't actually say it is going to be made.

Also, if they do make a 120 version, I wouldn't expect it to be much cheaper. Going off what they currently sell rads for, I'd imagine it'd sell for around 20 bucks cheaper. I guess they could cut the PWM splitter and a second fan off and sell it for around 40 cheaper, but than it starts to be less of a deal compared to other rads. And I can't imagine a lot of people wanting to buy the 120 version for expandability, they'd buy it for a true AIO, which if you start cutting all those things may make it less appealing. A 120 version wouldn't be to save money, it would be for people who can't fit 240's.


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Them working on it doesn't mean they are actually working to produce it, he may have just meant that they are working on seeing if it is worth it or not. Considering they have 100% confirmed the 360 version, and not the 120, I wouldn't actually say it is going to be made.
> 
> Also, if they do make a 120 version, I wouldn't expect it to be much cheaper. Going off what they currently sell rads for, I'd imagine it'd sell for around 20 bucks cheaper. I guess they could cut the PWM splitter and a second fan off and sell it for around 40 cheaper, but than it starts to be less of a deal compared to other rads. And I can't imagine a lot of people wanting to buy the 120 version for expandability, they'd buy it for a true AIO, which if you start cutting all those things may make it less appealing. A 120 version wouldn't be to save money, it would be for people who can't fit 240's.


the original question was about if there was going to be a 120 version. I mentioned that there would probably be a chance depending on the sales of the h220 and 320. so legitimately, it IS planned, whether or not it will go through is a different story.


----------



## justanoldman

I am sure the H220 with two additional radiators can cool a cpu and two gpus at stock. Will it be enough if all three of those are maxed as far as their overclock? It is my understanding that an IVY chip at 5.0 or above plus a couple GTX 670s with high overclocks generate a lot more heat than if they were at stock.

In a setup like that, is your only choice to pay more for a custom setup, or could the H220 with two additional rads really handle 3 highly overclocked things?

Also, since the NZXT Switch 810 case was suggested, will that accommodate 3 radiators or just two?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> I am sure the H220 with two additional radiators can cool a cpu and two gpus at stock. Will it be enough if all three of those are maxed as far as their overclock? It is my understanding that an IVY chip at 5.0 or above plus a couple GTX 670s with high overclocks generate a lot more heat than if they were at stock.
> 
> In a setup like that, is your only choice to pay more for a custom setup, or could the H220 with two additional rads really handle 3 highly overclocked things?
> 
> Also, since the NZXT Switch 810 case was suggested, will that accommodate 3 radiators or just two?


Look at my system if you want to know if the Switch 810 can accommodate 3 radiators. Our H220 will certainly be able to handle this kind of a configuration. We demonstrated that at CES this year.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> I am sure the H220 with two additional radiators can cool a cpu and two gpus at stock. Will it be enough if all three of those are maxed as far as their overclock? It is my understanding that an IVY chip at 5.0 or above plus a couple GTX 670s with high overclocks generate a lot more heat than if they were at stock.
> 
> In a setup like that, is your only choice to pay more for a custom setup, or could the H220 with two additional rads really handle 3 highly overclocked things?
> 
> Also, since the NZXT Switch 810 case was suggested, will that accommodate 3 radiators or just two?


2x GTX670's and an IVY - all 3 oc'ed shouldn't be a problem for the H220 and an additional rad.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dudewitbow*
> 
> the original question was about if there was going to be a 120 version. I mentioned that there would probably be a chance depending on the sales of the h220 and 320. so legitimately, it IS planned, whether or not it will go through is a different story.


We are still in discussion as to whether or not there will be a 120 version of this kit. It will most likely depend on how much interest there is in the new kit when it comes out and what the projected interest will be in a 120 version.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> I am sure the H220 with two additional radiators can cool a cpu and two gpus at stock. Will it be enough if all three of those are maxed as far as their overclock? It is my understanding that an IVY chip at 5.0 or above plus a couple GTX 670s with high overclocks generate a lot more heat than if they were at stock.
> 
> In a setup like that, is your only choice to pay more for a custom setup, or could the H220 with two additional rads really handle 3 highly overclocked things?
> 
> Also, since the NZXT Switch 810 case was suggested, will that accommodate 3 radiators or just two?


The cooling comes from the rad surface area, the only thing you need to worry about from the point of the H220 being able to cool it, is whether it can maintain adequate flow rates through the required elements in the loop. They already demonstrated the product being able to cool 2 GPUs and 2 rads at CES. The cooling performance depends entirely then on WHICH rads are being used, and what configuration the fans are on the rads.


----------



## justanoldman

Thanks for all the help guys, all of this is very helpful.









For now I think I will do a single overclocked EVGA GTX 670 4gb FTW+, and then my 3770k at 5.0. I may add a second 670 down the road. Since the Switch 810 can fit a huge radiator up top, which extra rad would you guys put up there, which fans to go with it, and is getting double fans to do push/pull worth it? I assume I should put the included H220 rad and two fans on the bottom.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Thanks for all the help guys, all of this is very helpful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For now I think I will do a single overclocked EVGA GTX 670 4gb FTW+, and then my 3770k at 5.0. I may add a second 670 down the road. Since the Switch 810 can fit a huge radiator up top, which extra rad would you guys put up there, which fans to go with it, and is getting double fans to do push/pull worth it? I assume I should put the included H220 rad and two fans on the bottom.


With your hardware I would look at putting a MCR320-XP in the roof with Helix PWM fans under it in a push configuration. Have your H220 set up in the bottom like you said and put it in a push configuration with the fans on the bottom. With it set up like this you will be able to easily add fans to both rads for push/pull in the future. I would also move one of case fans to the front so that you'll have 2 140mm fans bringing in fresh air and just leave the 140 in the back for added exhaust.


----------



## sikkly

So it looks like those fancy PWM splitter's are being sold now: http://www.swiftech.com/8-waypwmsplitter.aspx

I know quite a few people were interested in it, so I figured this thread would be a good place to throw it out there.


----------



## os2wiz

I am a novice. Can you explain the reason for 2 diameters on the tubing, one that's 3/8 and the other that is 5/8"? Thank you.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> I am a novice. Can you explain the reason for 2 diameters on the tubing, one that's 3/8 and the other that is 5/8"? Thank you.


The smaller is the ID = Inner Diameter, the other is the OD = Outer Diameter.


----------



## fatlardo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> So it looks like those fancy PWM splitter's are being sold now: http://www.swiftech.com/8-waypwmsplitter.aspx
> 
> I know quite a few people were interested in it, so I figured this thread would be a good place to throw it out there.


Wait the kit doesn't come with one?


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fatlardo*
> 
> Wait the kit doesn't come with one?


It does


----------



## psikeiro

Stupid phone


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fatlardo*
> 
> Wait the kit doesn't come with one?


It does


----------



## Ryld Baenre

Really looking forward to the 360mm kit so I can take advantage of the exhaust grills at the top of the 800D. You guys are doing an awesome job!


----------



## Neo Zuko

And there are different sizes of inner diameter and outer diameter and gabe is a big fan of the 3/8 and 5/8 category


----------



## Neo Zuko

How is the stock on these PWM splitters I want about 4 of them are they in supply?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> How is the stock on these PWM splitters I want about 4 of them are they in supply?


yes they are in stock right now!

Also confirming that it comes included with the H220.


----------



## TeeBlack

if i wanted to expand the H220 and add another dual 120 rad will the reservoir on the H220 rad be enough for both rads?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TeeBlack*
> 
> if i wanted to expand the H220 and add another dual 120 rad will the reservoir on the H220 rad be enough for both rads?


yes - you only one reservoir in any given loop.


----------



## Kelt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> 2x GTX670's and an IVY - all 3 oc'ed shouldn't be a problem for the H220 and an additional rad.


Do you think the H320 could handle this setup without an additional rad?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kelt*
> 
> Do you think the H320 could handle this setup without an additional rad?


If you watched the CES video it showed the H220 run 3770k+2x GTX 680+Mobo Mosfets. So a H320 will have no issues.


----------



## Neo Zuko

I meant if there was an abundance of them not if they were available.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> I meant if there was an abundance of them not if they were available.


We have about 400-500 left I believe


----------



## Dmz96

Regarding the CPU block, I'm working in a mini-itx scenario here and am using the ASRock Z77E Mini-Itx Board where the Pci-e slot is very close to the Cpu spot, severely limiting the number of cpu cooling options. If the Intel stock cooler can fit fine, will the cpu block on this fit as well? I know the rad will be no problem, but I'm concerned about the cpu block...


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dmz96*
> 
> Regarding the CPU block, I'm working in a mini-itx scenario here and am using the ASRock Z77E Mini-Itx Board where the Pci-e slot is very close to the Cpu spot, severely limiting the number of cpu cooling options. If the Intel stock cooler can fit fine, will the cpu block on this fit as well? I know the rad will be no problem, but I'm concerned about the cpu block...


based on the board picture on the asrock website I think it'll fit


----------



## Kelt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> If you watched the CES video it showed the H220 run 3770k+2x GTX 680+Mobo Mosfets. So a H320 will have no issues.


Yes, watched that, which is why I was curious as to why StephenM recommended an additional rad for an overclocked Ivy + 2 overclocked 670's.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kelt*
> 
> Yes, watched that, which is why I was curious as to why StephenM recommended an additional rad for an overclocked Ivy + 2 overclocked 670's.


If you want to dissipate more heat and help maintain a more steady temps adding another rad will help with that.


----------



## Kelt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> If you want to dissipate more heat and help maintain a more steady temps adding another rad will help with that.


Hoping to get away with a H320 with no added rad for planned oc'd Haswell and oc'd 670's.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kelt*
> 
> Hoping to get away with a H320 with no added rad for planned oc'd Haswell and oc'd 670's.


That's pushing it. The general rule of thumb is 120 of rad per block, plus an extra 120 on top of it all. The h320 will probably cool it, but you'll probably need P/P fans and they won't be running quietly, most likely.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Does it go the other way? If I get double the rads, at what point does it not matter? As in more rads would not improve your PC any. I want a silent beast.


----------



## TeeBlack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> yes - you only one reservoir in any given loop.


ok thanks. can wait to get this unit!


----------



## MeanBruce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> 2x GTX670's and an IVY - all 3 oc'ed shouldn't be a problem for the H220 and an additional rad.


How about cooling a single 3770K o/c'd to 4.6Ghz using the larger radiator on the Swiftech H320 and turning the pump way down with a Zalman PWM FanMate controller?

Hoping the larger radiator surface area will compensate for the lower pump rpms and subsequent lower noise.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> How about cooling a single 3770K o/c'd to 4.6Ghz using the larger radiator on the Swiftech H320 and turning the pump way down with a Zalman PWM FanMate controller?
> 
> Hoping the larger radiator surface area will compensate for the lower pump rpms and subsequent lower noise.


Pump speed doesn't directly affect cooling, you need to maintain a certain flow rate, the speed you really want to work on reducing is the fan speed, as this should be louder than the pump. If that is the case, you would want to put your pump and your fans on 2 different PWM headers, in order to control them separately.


----------



## justanoldman

Are people planning to replace the stock fans on the H220 rad, like many do on the H100i, or are they good/quiet enough?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> How about cooling a single 3770K o/c'd to 4.6Ghz using the larger radiator on the Swiftech H320 and turning the pump way down with a Zalman PWM FanMate controller?
> 
> Hoping the larger radiator surface area will compensate for the lower pump rpms and subsequent lower noise.


Read this review: http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/01/27/swiftech-h220-prefilled-2x120mm-water-cooling-kit/

In it he shows that pump speed doesn't matter much for temps. 30% vs 100% pump speed was less than a degree difference. However, you shouldn't worry about pump speed at all. Swiftech has apparently tuned it so the fans and pump pretty much make the same noise at the same %, so the fans will cover the noise of the pump. And a 220 should easily cool a single CPU, a 320 should be dead silent on a 3770k.









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Are people planning to replace the stock fans on the H220 rad, like many do on the H100i, or are they good/quiet enough?


The Helix fans are pretty good. They are slightly cheaper versions of GT15's. Slightly worse performance, slightly more noise. And it is only slightly, but again they are cheaper. Overall, if you already have the fans of your choice you can probably replace them, but I personally don't think you'll get 30 bucks worth of performance out of replacing fans. They are far quieter than the fans the h100i comes with.


----------



## macro6

If I want to buy this, i'll be buying for the expandability. Checking the website it does not show you anything about expanding your product. So does that mean im on my own to figure out which part will work best with this system?


----------



## Equilibrium

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> They are far quieter than the *fans the h100i comes with*.


yeah, but which fan isn't?


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Are people planning to replace the stock fans on the H220 rad, like many do on the H100i, or are they good/quiet enough?


SP120s are nothing like GTs (which helix are similar to). I had a h100i and at full speed the thing was extremely noisy.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *macro6*
> 
> If I want to buy this, i'll be buying for the expandability. Checking the website it does not show you anything about expanding your product. So does that mean im on my own to figure out which part will work best with this system?


No, you aren't on your own. If you PM me I can help you figure out what you need to expand this kit based on your hardware. Of course it would be virtually impossible to put together a complete list of everything that you would need for every conceivable hardware configuration. That's where Customer Support comes in and this is something that I was specifically hired for. Water cooling has been a hobby of mine for the past 7 years and now I've been able to turn it into a pretty well paying job. I can offer you my experience with building custom water cooled systems and help you to figure out what you'll need to expand this kit into a fully custom water cooled system.


----------



## BramSLI1

Just to let everyone here know, Rodney Reynolds of 3DGameMan just gave this product a 100% KickAss rating and I've personally thrown down the gauntlet to Tom Logan of OC3D.net. Hopefully I'll hear from him shortly about whether or not he wants to review this new kit. I have a very good feeling that he will.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Just to let everyone here know, Rodney Reynolds of 3DGameMan just gave this product a 100% KickAss rating and I've personally thrown down the gauntlet to Tom Logan of OC3D.net. Hopefully I'll hear from him shortly about whether or not he wants to review this new kit. I have a very good feeling that he will.


Reviews are good, it's the only thing we got till you release this kit! Quick question though, are you guys going to have the tubing on sale at/prior to the release of the h220, or is it going to be released afterwards?


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *macro6*
> 
> If I want to buy this, i'll be buying for the expandability. Checking the website it does not show you anything about expanding your product. So does that mean im on my own to figure out which part will work best with this system?


It is definitely tricky, I am trying to do the same. The problem is the product is not out yet, so we don't have videos and guides to help us. To expand it you need more hose (not available yet), more coolant, more fittings, water block for your individual GPU, and most likely another radiator and fans for it.

Installing it on the CPU is easy, expanding it is much more complicated. You can jump in the deep end when it first comes out like me, or just wait until some guides/videos are out there and it shouldn't be too hard. BramSLI1 is already sick of answering my questions, so feel free to bug him as much as you want.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Reviews are good, it's the only thing we got till you release this kit! Quick question though, are you guys going to have the tubing on sale at/prior to the release of the h220, or is it going to be released afterwards?


As of right now I really can't say. I'm not at work so I can't ask Gabe to answer this question either. From my understanding it will go on sale at about the same time that the H220 does.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> It is definitely tricky, I am trying to do the same. The problem is the product is not out yet, so we don't have videos and guides to help us. To expand it you need more hose (not available yet), more coolant, more fittings, water block for your individual GPU, and most likely another radiator and fans for it.
> 
> Installing it on the CPU is easy, expanding it is much more complicated. You can jump in the deep end when it first comes out like me, or just wait until some guides/videos are out there and it shouldn't be too hard. BramSLI1 is already sick of answering my questions, so feel free to bug him as much as you want.


I'm not sick of answering your questions. I get paid to answer your questions. Well, maybe not on the weekends but this is also a hobby that I happen to really enjoy. Feel free to send me a PM or contact me through [email protected] if you need more detailed help or instructions.


----------



## TeeBlack

im just gonna start off with just the cpu (2500k @4.5ghz) then expand later to a gpu block for my 7950.


----------



## MeanBruce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Read this review: http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/01/27/swiftech-h220-prefilled-2x120mm-water-cooling-kit/
> 
> In it he shows that pump speed doesn't matter much for temps. 30% vs 100% pump speed was less than a degree difference. However, you shouldn't worry about pump speed at all. Swiftech has apparently tuned it so the fans and pump pretty much make the same noise at the same %, so the fans will cover the noise of the pump. And a 220 should easily cool a single CPU, a 320 should be dead silent on a 3770k.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Helix fans are pretty good. They are slightly cheaper versions of GT15's. Slightly worse performance, slightly more noise. And it is only slightly, but again they are cheaper. Overall, if you already have the fans of your choice you can probably replace them, but I personally don't think you'll get 30 bucks worth of performance out of replacing fans. They are far quieter than the fans the h100i comes with.


Thanks, but I'm not planning on using the stock Swiftech fans at all, keeping them in the box. The fans I'm going to use are inaudible at 1000rpm and below, so the H320 pump is the only sound coming from my pc. Video card spins at an inaudible level at idle and my PSU has a hybrid-fan profile and it doesn't spin up at all. If I can drop the H320 pump down to 30% or even lower and still achieve the same Delta T of 2.5 I have now with an H100i, that would be wonderful. Or even a Delta T of 1.5 or 2.0 would be amazing.

Don't think I can get a Delta T of 0 unless I go custom water.









Wonder what the D5 Vario pump sounds like at it's lowest setting of 1. Louder or quieter than the H220/H320 pump at 30%. These questions are rarely answered by reviewers, sometimes you just have to get the parts and find out for yourself.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Spoke with Tom Logan, he told me that he is excited to test the H220. he mentioned that he will work on it next week, as he just got it 2 days ago.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Are people planning to replace the stock fans on the H220 rad, like many do on the H100i, or are they good/quiet enough?


The Helix is very good. Just as quiet as the AP15.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> The Helix fans are pretty good. They are slightly cheaper versions of GT15's. Slightly worse performance, slightly more noise. And it is only slightly, but again they are cheaper. Overall, if you already have the fans of your choice you can probably replace them, but I personally don't think you'll get 30 bucks worth of performance out of replacing fans. They are far quieter than the fans the h100i comes with.


Martin Liquid Labs did a sound test of the Helix fans vs Ap15. The sound is the same.




Here is a quick instal guide for the H220


----------



## Dmz96

I plan on getting this kit, which comes with the 8pin pwn splitter. Before I go out and buy a splitter, which I need for all my fans, can this pwn splitter connect non-pwn fans? (ie 3pin)


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dmz96*
> 
> I plan on getting this kit, which comes with the 8pin pwn splitter. Before I go out and buy a splitter, which I need for all my fans, can this pwn splitter connect non-pwn fans? (ie 3pin)


Yes it can.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Yes it can.


can it control 3 pin fans?


----------



## Firehawk

Any 3 pin fans you plug in will run at full speed. They'll only get 12V and won't be able to take advantage of the PWM signal to slow them down.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> can it control 3 pin fans?


From my understanding they'll just run at full speed. For them to be able to be controlled through the motherboard they would have to be PWM four-pin fans.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I'm not sick of answering your questions. I get paid to answer your questions. Well, maybe not on the weekends but this is also a hobby that I happen to really enjoy. Feel free to send me a PM or contact me through [email protected] if you need more detailed help or instructions.


I was just giving you are hard time.








I just got back from the store with my gunmetal Switch 810 per your recommendation.
Just waiting for the H220....


----------



## M3TAl

Here's something I've been wondering about for the past few weeks. Why/how does running pumps dry ruin them (this being the #1 rule of water cooling, besides leak testing, never run the pump dry!)? Maybe they teach you this in pumps 101 but I don't really know much of anything about pumps, just that they move liquid or gas.

I'm looking for a somewhat detailed/technical answer to this and I have two possible rather uneducated guesses as to what ruins the pumps.

Guess one would be that the pumps would run at a much higher rpm when there is no liquid in them. So they're designed to operate at a certain rpm given a certain amount of resistance from a liquid. Using the H220 pump as an example maybe when run dry the rpm's shoot way past 3000rpm and this ruins the pump somehow?

My other wild theory involves the liquid as some sort of lubricant for the internals of the pump? Ok, here is the h220 pump taken apart courtesy of Martin's Liquid Lab: 

Does running a pump dry cause the surfaces to rub together causing large cuts and scratches between the surfaces? No idea if that's even possible considering I know next to nothing about pumps, just taking some wild guesses here


----------



## CoolGuy90

Can compression fittings be put on the adapters attached to the pump?


----------



## Faithh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Just to let everyone here know, Rodney Reynolds of 3DGameMan just gave this product a 100% KickAss rating and I've personally thrown down the gauntlet to Tom Logan of OC3D.net. Hopefully I'll hear from him shortly about whether or not he wants to review this new kit. I have a very good feeling that he will.


Hmm if I could review this cooler I would have given you guys a 0/10 for launch because you guys were a year too slow to release a perfect aio cooler. Getting tired of noisy H100's for like a year even the I version. Just kidding









Been reading that Swiftech is going to bring a H320 which is currently in development, right? My question would have been is the pump going to be slightly redesigned e.g. higher rpm orsomething?


----------



## ez12a

probably not, since the h220 can support 2 rads the way it is, a single 320 shouldnt be any different.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CoolGuy90*
> 
> Can compression fittings be put on the adapters attached to the pump?


No, the pump uses a type of swivel fitting that can't be adapted for compression fittings. The same goes for the radiator.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faithh*
> 
> Hmm if I could review this cooler I would have given you guys a 0/10 for launch because you guys were a year too slow to release a perfect aio cooler. Getting tired of noisy H100's for like a year even the I version. Just kidding
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Been reading that Swiftech is going to bring a H320 which is currently in development, right? My question would have been is the pump going to be slightly redesigned e.g. higher rpm orsomething?


No, the H320 will use the same pump because as ez12a stated this pump is strong enough as it is.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> From my understanding they'll just run at full speed. For them to be able to be controlled through the motherboard they would have to be PWM four-pin fans.


got it, thanks for the clarification! I just wondered since my old gigabyte board could switch from PWM to Voltage fan control to the same header depending on a setting in the BIOS.

Btw, I installed one of the helix fans into my HTPC to replace the crappy fan that was included with the case. WAY quieter at full speed! i had to visually look to make sure it was on







Cant wait to see them in action on the h220!


----------



## TeeBlack

damn i wish the month would speed up. I just want Swiftech to take my money already lol.


----------



## WALSRU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TeeBlack*
> 
> damn i wish the month would speed up already. I just want Swiftech to take my money already lol.


THIS


----------



## Equilibrium

can't wait too... still running with that screaming intel stock cooler.


----------



## gkolarov

I have a proposal :

We, people who want H220 right now and can't wait till the end of the month, are not so many! Why you guys from Swiftech send us now H220? If you say i can tomorrow send you the money !


----------



## WALSRU

Wow that was sort of like poetry


----------



## Pure2sin

I am not going to look through 144 pages but..

Has anyone talked about a (group buy) on these?


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pure2sin*
> 
> I am not going to look through 144 pages but..
> 
> Has anyone talked about a (group buy) on these?


I want two, yesterday.


----------



## Neo Zuko

So I made a dream basket at Swiftech.com... it came to $1124.16 delivered... dam, might get that H220 or H320 to hold me over in my CaseLabs build. Then buy my Swiftech dream gear over time. I knew it would run me some coin, but the real surprising thing was the shipping of $68.83... Just for the shipping to NJ! Just for 30-40 fittings, 27 Helix fans, the Maelstrom, an Apogee Drive II, and a few small extras. Not sure if that is really about the size of the parts involved or just some computer adding separate shipping calculations up a bit lopsided. Perhaps its the weight of all the fittings. I would have expected no more than about $45 for shipping myself. No biggie in the end, just unexpected. Most likely I'm just spoiled by all the free Amazon shipping I get. Tho seeing as how the fittings seem to be $2 cheaper each on Swiftech's website, I guess it more than works out.

$1124.16... Dam... Can I borrow about a grand off of anyone? Swiftech Sponsor? Grant from Bruce Wayne?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> So I made a dream basket at Swiftech.com... it came to $1124.16 delivered... dam, might get that H220 or H320 to hold me over in my CaseLabs build. Then buy my Swiftech dream gear over time. I knew it would run me some coin, but the real surprising thing was the shipping of $68.83... Just for the shipping to NJ! Just for 30-40 fittings, 27 Helix fans, the Maelstrom, an Apogee Drive II, and a few small extras. Not sure if that is really about the size of the parts involved or just some computer adding separate shipping calculations up a bit lopsided. Perhaps its the weight of all the fittings. I would have expected no more than about $45 for shipping myself. No biggie in the end, just unexpected. Most likely I'm just spoiled by all the free Amazon shipping I get. Tho seeing as how the fittings seem to be $2 cheaper each on Swiftech's website, I guess it more than works out.
> 
> $1124.16... Dam... Can I borrow about a grand off of anyone? Swiftech Sponsor? Grant from Bruce Wayne?


That's a lot of weight, and a mighty large box. Box size makes a big difference, and shipping costs have only gone up over the last several years. Soon the USPS will be shutting down Saturday mail, and that's the only way the post office will become solvent again. The government has been regulating them into a deep deep hole financially lately.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> That's a lot of weight, and a mighty large box. Box size makes a big difference, and shipping costs have only gone up over the last several years. Soon the USPS will be shutting down Saturday mail, and that's the only way the post office will become solvent again. The government has been regulating them into a deep deep hole financially lately.


I'll grant you that. No big deal, just not used to it. Amazon spoils me rotten.


----------



## Neo Zuko

I have something I could use help with, I'll google the hell out of it if no one knows off hand. I want to braid the cables on the 27 Swiftech Helix fans I plan on getting but I don't really know much about that. Figured I'd stick to the Swiftech black and white theme and braid the cables white, make the cables longer to reach the 8 way PWM splitter from Swiftech. I found this braiding which seems to be the best:

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/13934/slv-210/Bitspower_Super_Tight_Weave_18_Cable_Sleeve_Deluxe_-_White.html#blank

But I don't know what tools or spare wire parts I need. Sodder gun? Sodder or Flux? Heat Shrink? Spare Wire? Wire Cutters? Am I missing anything? I did find that I should use 1/4 white heat shrink tho.

So I already have my black CaseLabs SM8 case (I didn't want to chance a white or half white case and hate it), but going white on tubing and cables. I'm even getting the white AX1200i PSU cable kit from Corsair. Then the Swiftech fans will be white bladed. Should look cool. Like all black with white accents for a theme. Add some artwork and lighting









If there was a factory white braiding option when buying the Swiftech fans, you would have extra money from me


----------



## M3TAl

Lutro0 has videos that tells you everything you could ever want to know about cable sleeving. http://www.overclock.net/t/662039/cable-sleeving-gallery-discussion


----------



## Neo Zuko

just what i needed.


----------



## Dizz22r

Anyone interested in possibly doing a group buy for the h320? I certainly want one and have money set aside for it! Let me know if anyone is interested. If you are copy below and add your name

Also will swiftech Reps(Stephen and Bram) work with us on this and let gabe know if something like would be possible thanks!

H320 GB!
1.Dizz22r


----------



## Neo Zuko

I honestly don't believe we could get the numbers to justify a special price. If the H320 was out I'd buy that over the H220 for sure. Seeing as there is a wait, I will have to settle for the H220. My final system configuration will be all SR-1 rads anyway.


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> I honestly don't believe we could get the numbers to justify a special price. If the H320 was out I'd buy that over the H220 for sure. Seeing as there is a wait, I will have to settle for the H220. My final system configuration will be all SR-1 rads anyway.


Stephen said about 1-2 months after the h220 release. So its not going to be that long.....Either way, i am going to wait. I rather take full advantage of my case space:thumb:


----------



## gkolarov

You are right, it is better to wait for H320 .....


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> Stephen said about 1-2 months after the h220 release. So its not going to be that long.....Either way, i am going to wait. I rather take full advantage of my case space:thumb:


I will be with my 2x 220-QPs









Oh, Prodigy. How I can not wait to stuff you filled with Swiftech water cooling parts.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gkolarov*
> 
> You are right, it is better to wait for H320 .....


Thing is, I'm not sure I can or should wait. I have a buyer for the H100i now (I'll need something to replace it right away)... And the Swiftech H220/H320 rad will get replaced by an SR-1 rad no matter what in the near future. It just better performing/thicker. I want the H220 for the fans, PWM splitter, and that new CPU waterblock/pump. Those l'll keep in my final system.

So I can use the H220 to get me by but soon it will be upgraded quite a bit. Changing out the fluid, tubing, res, and rad. My only other desired option was an Apogee Drive 2... But since that will not be my only pump (getting a duel pump Maelstrom eventually), the extra power of the Apogee Drive 2 will go to waste (but I still like the idea of a flow adding CPU block instead of a flow taking one - run it on low speed - plus I get a full working solution to get me by). It's a staggered approach. Plus I really want out of the Corsair unit sooner than later. Esp since I have a buyer. So yea, not worth waiting 2 months in my particular case.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> I have something I could use help with, I'll google the hell out of it if no one knows off hand. I want to braid the cables on the 27 Swiftech Helix fans I plan on getting but I don't really know much about that. Figured I'd stick to the Swiftech black and white theme and braid the cables white, make the cables longer to reach the 8 way PWM splitter from Swiftech. I found this braiding which seems to be the best:
> 
> http://www.frozencpu.com/products/13934/slv-210/Bitspower_Super_Tight_Weave_18_Cable_Sleeve_Deluxe_-_White.html#blank
> 
> But I don't know what tools or spare wire parts I need. Sodder gun? Sodder or Flux? Heat Shrink? Spare Wire? Wire Cutters? Am I missing anything? I did find that I should use 1/4 white heat shrink tho.
> 
> So I already have my black CaseLabs SM8 case (I didn't want to chance a white or half white case and hate it), but going white on tubing and cables. I'm even getting the white AX1200i PSU cable kit from Corsair. Then the Swiftech fans will be white bladed. Should look cool. Like all black with white accents for a theme. Add some artwork and lighting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there was a factory white braiding option when buying the Swiftech fans, you would have extra money from me


Please post some pictures when you get it all put together. A black and white build can look extremely clean and polished.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> Anyone interested in possibly doing a group buy for the h320? I certainly want one and have money set aside for it! Let me know if anyone is interested. If you are copy below and add your name
> 
> Also will swiftech Reps(Stephen and Bram) work with us on this and let gabe know if something like would be possible thanks!
> 
> H320 GB!
> 1.Dizz22r


Gabe has informed Stephen and I that this isn't something that will be considered in places where there is already at least one distributor. This is due to the fact that even with a group buy it will still be cheaper to purchase through one of our distributors.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> Here's something I've been wondering about for the past few weeks. Why/how does running pumps dry ruin them (this being the #1 rule of water cooling, besides leak testing, never run the pump dry!)? Maybe they teach you this in pumps 101 but I don't really know much of anything about pumps, just that they move liquid or gas.
> 
> I'm looking for a somewhat detailed/technical answer to this and I have two possible rather uneducated guesses as to what ruins the pumps.
> 
> Guess one would be that the pumps would run at a much higher rpm when there is no liquid in them. So they're designed to operate at a certain rpm given a certain amount of resistance from a liquid. Using the H220 pump as an example maybe when run dry the rpm's shoot way past 3000rpm and this ruins the pump somehow?
> 
> My other wild theory involves the liquid as some sort of lubricant for the internals of the pump? Ok, here is the h220 pump taken apart courtesy of Martin's Liquid Lab:
> 
> Does running a pump dry cause the surfaces to rub together causing large cuts and scratches between the surfaces? No idea if that's even possible considering I know next to nothing about pumps, just taking some wild guesses here


When running dry there is no liquid to lubricate and cool the bearings - air does not lubricate nor cool the bearing which typically cause it fail extremely fast.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Please post some pictures when you get it all put together. A black and white build can look extremely clean and polished.


I'm starting a build log soon called "The Avatar State". I can't wait. Just need a bit more money for the watercooling parts then I'm ready to at least start it. Parts are in my signature rig.


----------



## MeanBruce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> I will be with my 2x 220-QPs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, Prodigy. How I can not wait to stuff you filled with Swiftech water cooling parts.


Hahaha, people are really loving those little Prodigy cases, that's amazing, I love to see passion for tech gear or anything really, the "meh" crowd just gets boring after a short while. I share the same feeling over my new chassis, fans and build. It's just beautiful with the morning sun shining through the side panel window.

I would be on for a group buy with the H320, just not sure Swiftech would go along with that. There is so much momentum for this product, they would be smart to take advantage of the high demand. Mr. Gabe and his crew have worked hard on this project, they deserve this time to truly be their own.

In addition, they may have investors to repay, so give them what they deserve, full retail.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> Hahaha, people are really loving those little Prodigy cases, that's amazing, I love to see passion for tech gear or anything really, the "meh" crowd just gets boring after a short while. I share the same feeling over my new chassis, fans and build. It's just beautiful with the morning sun shining through the side panel window.
> 
> I would be on for a group buy with the H320, just not sure Swiftech would go along with that. There is so much momentum for this product, they would be smart to take advantage of the high demand. Mr. Gabe and his crew have worked hard on this project, they deserve this time to truly be their own.
> 
> In addition, they may have investors to repay, so give them what they deserve, full retail.


Agreed on the first part. It always surprised me to see people lacking enthusiasm on this website. Why bother with a hobby you don't have passions for?

And Bram already said that swiftech isn't going to go with group buys, unless their isn't a distributor available to the group.


----------



## Neo Zuko

I'm still stuck between the Apogee Drive 2 and the H220 "Drive". I mean, I know the H220 Drive is in some ways better... but I'll really miss the compression fitting compatibility and that big illuminated Swiftech logo... not sure which I'll do. I suppose it will come down to money.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> I'm still stuck between the Apogee Drive 2 and the H220 "Drive". I mean, I know the H220 Drive is in some ways better... but I'll really miss the compression fitting compatibility and that big illuminated Swiftech logo... not sure which I'll do. I suppose it will come down to money.


Well, you can always make a custom top for the h220. Martin's review showed that the top pops right off by hand, and it should be easy enough to make a custom logo if you wanted. The compression fittings...well, like you said, it all comes down to money. Decisions decisions


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Well, you can always make a custom top for the h220. Martin's review showed that the top pops right off by hand, and it should be easy enough to make a custom logo if you wanted. The compression fittings...well, like you said, it all comes down to money. Decisions decisions


Custom artwork top for the whole unit sounds cool... I imagine I could cut two pieces of acrylic, sand bevel the edges up cool, sandwich the artwork between them, then use some "Tape of the Gods" to attach it. The Tape of the Gods is featured here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=4ktMsp2dFIM

The Apogee Drive 2 kinda needs that heatsink whereas the H220 Drive can get by fine without it. My mind is already thinking of build log possibilities. Swiftech would do well to craft an acrylic frame like this and market it.

EDIT: Then I could get this EK RIVE mobo block here to match (copper and acrylic top):

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14721/ex-blc-1026/EK_ASUS_Rampage_IV_Extreme_Full_Board_Cooling_Block_Kit_-_Acrylic_CSQ_EK-FB_KIT_RE4_CSQ.html

Or if acrylic blocks are too dangerous (are they? I mean I have a Swiftech res that is acrylic right?), I could get this variant (copper and plastic top):

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/14722/ex-blc-1027/EK_ASUS_Rampage_IV_Extreme_Full_Board_Cooling_Block_Kit_-_Acetal_CSQ_EK-FB_KIT_RE4_-_Acetal_CSQ.html#blank

Then I could mount acrylic sandwiched artwork on top of the mobo blocks as well. Or with the acrylic top on, just let it shine clear(or a combination of the two). I'm feeling it.

EDIT 2:

Seems that acrylic tops are less durable, so I will get the POM Acetal variant. I can mount artwork on top of that just as well, if that mod does not conflict with the max height needed for PCI card clearance.

EDIT 3: Perhaps I am overthinking this artwork wise, will I even see the dam block with my PCI cards over it?


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> Hahaha, people are really loving those little Prodigy cases, that's amazing, I love to see passion for tech gear or anything really, the "meh" crowd just gets boring after a short while. I share the same feeling over my new chassis, fans and build. It's just beautiful with the morning sun shining through the side panel window.
> 
> I would be on for a group buy with the H320, just not sure Swiftech would go along with that. There is so much momentum for this product, they would be smart to take advantage of the high demand. Mr. Gabe and his crew have worked hard on this project, they deserve this time to truly be their own.
> 
> In addition, they may have investors to repay, so give them what they deserve, full retail.


Exactly, I had a "meh" build in the fall in my NZXT-ZERO-2, but at a certain point, the hardware is only so fun. I have the prodigy to get my feet wet, my next step will be a truly custom build, and I can't wait to make it happen.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Exactly, I had a "meh" build in the fall in my NZXT-ZERO-2, but at a certain point, the hardware is only so fun. I have the prodigy to get my feet wet, my next step will be a truly custom build, and I can't wait to make it happen.


To me, CaseLabs is the custom case you don't have to build... so many modular options


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> To me, CaseLabs is the custom case you don't have to build... so many modular options


I am sick of massive builds. The extra size does not add more computing power, there might be slightly more potential, but unless you add 4x GFX cards, when you have 1 GPU you can get all the performance out of an ITX board as an ATX board. Even the prodigy is large, but easier to manage then the smaller shoebox cases.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> I am sick of massive builds. The extra size does not add more computing power, there might be slightly more potential, but unless you add 4x GFX cards, when you have 1 GPU you can get all the performance out of an ITX board as an ATX board. Even the prodigy is large, but easier to manage then the smaller shoebox cases.


This is the reason why I want to do a Prodigy build of my own. Having such a large case is actually a hindrance in many ways. It makes the system very difficult to transport and there is virtually no difference in performance if you're running a single GPU.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> I am sick of massive builds. The extra size does not add more computing power, there might be slightly more potential, but unless you add 4x GFX cards, when you have 1 GPU you can get all the performance out of an ITX board as an ATX board. Even the prodigy is large, but easier to manage then the smaller shoebox cases.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> This is the reason why I want to do a Prodigy build of my own. Having such a large case is actually a hindrance in many ways. It makes the system very difficult to transport and there is virtually no difference in performance if you're running a single GPU.


While I don't like my cases bigger than the mobo and rad support needs them to be, I like elbow building room. And if I don't have to bend over to drop in a Blu-Ray, well, that's not a bad thing to me. Also, height allows more room for positive pressure fans if you want that. Pedestals allow for more rads so I can spin my fans a bit slower. If I want to move a small computer, I'll buy a laptop.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> This is the reason why I want to do a Prodigy build of my own. Having such a large case is actually a hindrance in many ways. It makes the system very difficult to transport and there is virtually no difference in performance if you're running a single GPU.


I didn't have any need for the prodigy, I just wanted it, and MicroCenter was selling 3770K's for $230. End of the day, this build will be far more mobile than the 2x QNIX QX2700 it will power.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> While I don't like my cases bigger than the mobo and rad support needs them to be, I like elbow building room. And if I don't have to bend over to drop in a Blu-Ray, well, that's not a bad thing to me. Also, height allows more room for positive pressure fans if you want that.


The prodigy is an excellent box for you then if you want a smaller case, it has all the required parts removable around the sides to make almost all portions of the case accessible. It thinks its a MacPro, but is far smaller in size, but gives you all the modularity and space needed for a comfortable build.

As for the rest of it, if you are making use of the size, I completely understand the use of a large full tower, just most of the time people don't, you have negative airflow pockets in a case which is completely underutilized, for no reason. I don't need any optical drives, and I have my network storage for massive files. What else could I possibly need to put in my gaming case?


----------



## Neo Zuko

Hey, is that new BLUE non toxic Swiftech fluid going up for sale at the end of the month too? I heard that is the fluid that is in the H220.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> I didn't have any need for the prodigy, I just wanted it, and MicroCenter was selling 3770K's for $230. End of the day, this build will be far more mobile than the 2x QNIX QX2700 it will power.
> The prodigy is an excellent box for you then if you want a smaller case, it has all the required parts removable around the sides to make almost all portions of the case accessible. It thinks its a MacPro, but is far smaller in size, but gives you all the modularity and space needed for a comfortable build.
> 
> As for the rest of it, if you are making use of the size, I completely understand the use of a large full tower, just most of the time people don't, you have negative airflow pockets in a case which is completely underutilized, for no reason. I don't need any optical drives, and I have my network storage for massive files. What else could I possibly need to put in my gaming case?


Yea, my SM8 plus pedestal will be pretty full. I could make it work without the pedestal, but the airflow would dump heat into the PC again and I'd lose the ability for a second HD cage. The way I'm designing it, it will be like a top mounted "U" shaped chimney, with the three rads all exhausting out top. Which leaves the room I need below for excellent positive pressure fan support and that second HD cage.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Yea, my SM8 plus pedestal will be pretty full. I could make it work without the pedestal, but the airflow would dump heat into the PC again and I'd lose the ability for a second HD cage. The way I'm designing it, it will be like a top mounted "U" shaped chimney, with the three rads all exhausting out top. Which leaves the room I need below for excellent positive pressure fan support and that second HD cage.


It sounds like you have this pretty well thought out. I can't wait to see what it looks like and how it performs.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> It sounds like you have this pretty well thought out. I can't wait to see what it looks like and how it performs.


Ditto


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Yea, my SM8 plus pedestal will be pretty full. I could make it work without the pedestal, but the airflow would dump heat into the PC again and I'd lose the ability for a second HD cage. The way I'm designing it, it will be like a top mounted "U" shaped chimney, with the three rads all exhausting out top. Which leaves the room I need below for excellent positive pressure fan support and that second HD cage.


Hmm.... I think full is a relative term... I fit 2 mcr420-qps, 5 200mm fans, 9 120mm fans, maelstrom, ad2, ssd, hdd, optical, etc in my build into a first gen NZXT Full tower







.


----------



## CoolGuy90

Is the radiator based on the QP or XP Swiftech radiators?


----------



## BramSLI1

The radiator for the H220 is based on the QP series.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> The radiator for the H220 is based on the QP series.


And I'm glad







. I would imagine it was because the QP series performs better with fans at low rpm than the XP in the same situation.


----------



## CoolGuy90

Thanks for the quick reply, I may plan on adding a single QP radiator to the rear of my case depending on what my temps are.


----------



## justanoldman

Bram,
Do you think we can have actually receive it before the end of the month, or maybe just be able to place an order by the end of the month?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Bram,
> Do you think we can have actually receive it before the end of the month, or maybe just be able to place an order by the end of the month?


To be honest with you it's hard to say at this point. I'd say that at the worst you'll be able to place an order by the end of the month.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Many want to put the SM8 pedestal on the bottom. The secret in my build plan is the pedestal's ability to be top mounted. One rad on the roof, two side mounted rads in the pedestal, all exhausting into the pedestal and up. Not one rad touches the main chamber, and it will give me room for up to 3x480 rads in the SM8. Even more rads are possible, but you would have to give up something like an HD cage or whatnot. This setup also allows for the main chamber to have 5 fans in, 4 fans out, so positive pressure is a go-go baby.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Hey, is that new BLUE non toxic Swiftech fluid going up for sale at the end of the month too? I heard that is the fluid that is in the H220.


should be!


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> To be honest with you it's hard to say at this point. I'd say that at the worst you'll be able to place an order by the end of the month.


I got money burning in my pocket, just begging to be put into swiftechs banks account...

Honestly though, I'm in no real hurry. I'm not building my next rig until the Midi R2 is released in march. Granted, as I've been looking at the switch 810, it keeps looking more and more tempting...I just like mid tower cases, though.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> I got money burning in my pocket, just begging to be put into swiftechs banks account...
> 
> Honestly though, I'm in no real hurry. I'm not building my next rig until the Midi R2 is released in march. Granted, as I've been looking at the switch 810, it keeps looking more and more tempting...I just like mid tower cases, though.


Doesn't Swiftech Bank Account sound a little too close to Swiss Bank Account? The name is Bond, James Bond. Where's my martini?


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> I got money burning in my pocket, just begging to be put into swiftechs banks account...
> 
> Honestly though, I'm in no real hurry. I'm not building my next rig until the Midi R2 is released in march. Granted, as I've been looking at the switch 810, it keeps looking more and more tempting...I just like mid tower cases, though.


Just picked up my Switch 810, and once you replace the cheap case fans with something good, it is a nice case. On sale for $149, so not a bad price for what you get.

But it is a travesty to have a MVF board with a 5.0 chip, running stock with the included Intel cooler. In other words I would like the H220 now.


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> When running dry there is no liquid to lubricate and cool the bearings - air does not lubricate nor cool the bearing which typically cause it fail extremely fast.


Thank you stephanm.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Just picked up my Switch 810, and once you replace the cheap case fans with something good, it is a nice case. On sale for $149, so not a bad price for what you get.
> 
> But it is a travesty to have a MVF board with a 5.0 chip, running stock with the included Intel cooler. In other words I would like the H220 now.


Lol, yea. My prodigy is sitting there with a Z77E-ITX and a 5.2ghz 3770k, it desperately needs a cooler


----------



## DJ XtAzY

Will this work with Haswell's socket?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DJ XtAzY*
> 
> Will this work with Haswell's socket?


it should be as LGA1150 is another socket based on the 75x75 mm form factor.


----------



## DrBrogbo

Has it been mentioned yet whether or not this will fit in a Rosewill Thor case? Looking inside my case, I see no reason why it wouldn't, as there's probably nearly 4 inches between the top of the case and the 8-pin or RAM, but there are hundreds of more knowledgeable people to ask in this thread.







Maybe I would even have room for push/pull?

My motherboard has a waterblock for the NB already, so I'd like to get that going.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrBrogbo*
> 
> Has it been mentioned yet whether or not this will fit in a Rosewill Thor case? Looking inside my case, I see no reason why it wouldn't, as there's probably nearly 4 inches between the top of the case and the 8-pin or RAM, but there are hundreds of more knowledgeable people to ask in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe I would even have room for push/pull?
> 
> My motherboard has a waterblock for the NB already, so I'd like to get that going.


The Rosewill Thor is a full-tower case and I've worked with it before. It will have no problem with mounting the H220 in the roof. Push/pull shouldn't be a problem either.


----------



## Roadkill95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Lol, yea. My prodigy is sitting there with a Z77E-ITX and a 5.2ghz 3770k, it desperately needs a cooler


wait what?????!!! 5.2ghz?


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> wait what?????!!! 5.2ghz?


needed 1.43v and I couldn't prime for a while cause the heat was getting outta hand, but I got a real nice chip from MicroCenter


----------



## Phishy714

Bram!!

This piece of art H220 is probably going to push me into watercooling. Wallet, meet Bram. Brammeet wallet. Now please apologize for what you are going to do to it in the next few months..

Quick question - Will you guys be coming out with a GTX TITAN gpu block? How long do you think till it might become available? There may or may not be "better" gpu blocks out there from different manufacturers, but I would like to stick with you guys since it will pretty much guarantee that the block will work with the H220 without risks of adverse chemical reactions that I've read about.


----------



## Roadkill95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> needed 1.43v and I couldn't prime for a while cause the heat was getting outta hand, but I got a real nice chip from MicroCenter


Is it delidded?

5.2 from an ivy just sounds... wrong.. lol. I think you've gotten like the best 3770k i've ever come across.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> Is it delidded?
> 
> 5.2 from an ivy just sounds... wrong.. lol. I think you've gotten like the best 3770k i've ever come across.


Ivy can clock pretty damn well, despite all the hate for overclocking. Delidded or not, a lot of the chips will get up on the clocks. The problem comes in, as Avonosac said, in cooling them down.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> ...Quick question - Will you guys be coming out with a GTX TITAN gpu block? How long do you think till it might become available? There may or may not be "better" gpu blocks out there from different manufacturers, but I would like to stick with you guys since it will pretty much guarantee that the block will work with the H220 without risks of adverse chemical reactions that I've read about.


I doubt they will, considering they likely still have an exclusive deal with EVGA on Nvidia waterblocks, and only Nvidia and Asus will be producing the Titan from what I've heard.


----------



## justanoldman

If you have a good Ivy chip then doing 5.0 once you have delidded is no that hard. I do it with 1.41v and that is good for a 24 hour Prime95 test. Beyond 5.0 for 24/7 use is tricky because it all depends on where your chip hits the wall. It may not be worth all that extra voltage to get over the wall for one more multiplier.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> Is it delidded?
> 
> 5.2 from an ivy just sounds... wrong.. lol. I think you've gotten like the best 3770k i've ever come across.


Not stable yet, but its not that far out. I consider it payback, because my 3570k is crappppp









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Ivy can clock pretty damn well, despite all the hate for overclocking. Delidded or not, a lot of the chips will get up on the clocks. The problem comes in, as Avonosac said, in cooling them down.


Yep, trying to put it under an h220 and see what it can do.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> If you have a good Ivy chip then doing 5.0 once you have delidded is no that hard. I do it with 1.41v and that is good for a 24 hour Prime95 test. Beyond 5.0 for 24/7 use is tricky because it all depends on where your chip hits the wall. It may not be worth all that extra voltage to get over the wall for one more multiplier.


Not stable yet, but I'm hoping I can 24/7 it at 5.1/5.2 when I can disable the iGPU.


----------



## Ricey20

For those looking for a Mini-ITX case that can fit an H220, check out http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ncase-m1-prototype-a-mini-itx-case?c=home
Seems its a community designed case but being manufactured by Lian Li. They even have a little FAQ question about the H220 and they've looked at specs and drawings for it so it should fit.


----------



## Neo Zuko

This is most likely well known, but I know the H220's inlet / outlet swivel from the videos, but does the Apogee Drive II's inlet / outlet swivel as well?


----------



## DrBrogbo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricey20*
> 
> For those looking for a Mini-ITX case that can fit an H220, check out http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ncase-m1-prototype-a-mini-itx-case?c=home
> Seems its a community designed case but being manufactured by Lian Li. They even have a little FAQ question about the H220 and they've looked at specs and drawings for it so it should fit.


That's a snazzy looking little case.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricey20*
> 
> For those looking for a Mini-ITX case that can fit an H220, check out http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ncase-m1-prototype-a-mini-itx-case?c=home
> Seems its a community designed case but being manufactured by Lian Li. They even have a little FAQ question about the H220 and they've looked at specs and drawings for it so it should fit.


What a wiring and tubing nightmare... the walls are closing in on meeeee!!!


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> This is most likely well known, but I know the H220's inlet / outlet swivel from the videos, but does the Apogee Drive II's inlet / outlet swivel as well?


No, they do not swivel. They can be positioned in 3 different angles (straight, angled slightly down, or angled slighty up), but to do so requires removing 2 screws on either side, and putting them back in their respective holes once positioned in the direction you want them. There is also an O-ring between the block and the fitting that you have to make sure is aligned properly if you choose to change directions.


----------



## WALSRU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricey20*
> 
> For those looking for a Mini-ITX case that can fit an H220, check out http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ncase-m1-prototype-a-mini-itx-case?c=home
> Seems its a community designed case but being manufactured by Lian Li. They even have a little FAQ question about the H220 and they've looked at specs and drawings for it so it should fit.


You're a couple pages late bro, I got this!


----------



## Robilar

So is the NCase M1 in a release version yet? I just built a Mini ITX system recently and looking to build a small gaming rig as well. If I could fit a Titan and the Swiftech cooler into it, that would be pretty incredible. Mind you, not being able to fit in a discrete sound card is unfortunate.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Robilar*
> 
> So is the NCase M1 in a release version yet? I just built a Mini ITX system recently and looking to build a small gaming rig as well. If I could fit a Titan and the Swiftech cooler into it, that would be pretty incredible. Mind you, not being able to fit in a discrete sound card is unfortunate.


Once the M1 is available, you could use a Shuttle x79 rig to add a soundcard... though I've heard mixed results about the performance of that board.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> No, they do not swivel. They can be positioned in 3 different angles (straight, angled slightly down, or angled slighty up), but to do so requires removing 2 screws on either side, and putting them back in their respective holes once positioned in the direction you want them. There is also an O-ring between the block and the fitting that you have to make sure is aligned properly if you choose to change directions.


Huh, I kinda like the swivel more.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> I doubt they will, considering they likely still have an exclusive deal with EVGA on Nvidia waterblocks, and only Nvidia and Asus will be producing the Titan from what I've heard.


I guess there isn't much else to be said. Thank you for that Phelan.


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I guess there isn't much else to be said. Thank you for that Phelan.


Thats's too bad









Also kinda surprising that EVGA will not be hosting a TITAN..


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> Thats's too bad
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also kinda surprising that EVGA will not be hosting a TITAN..


Who knows, maybe EVGA will come out with their own design. If they do there is a chance that we'll make the block for it for them. At this point I'm just speculating. I only work in the Customer Support and RMA Department after all. Gabe's office is all the way across the building from me and Stephen is so busy with his work that I doubt he would know either.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I guess there isn't much else to be said. Thank you for that Phelan.


No prob. Here's to hoping the reports are wrong,and EVGA gets to make sone with a Komodo on it







. If that happens, I'll be selling my 7970 and a bunch of stuff to pick up a Komodo'ed Titan







.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Who knows, maybe EVGA will come out with their own design. If they do there is a chance that we'll make the block for it for them. At this point I'm just speculating. I only work in the Customer Support and RMA Department after all. Gabe's office is all the way across the building from me and Stephen is so busy with his work that I doubt he would know either.


Well, I'll go out on a limb and imagine they'll get special permission to make a block. The 690 was only allowed to be sold as a reference card, except for EVGA's blocked card. I'd imagine the odds are decent that the same situation will happen here.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Well, I'll go out on a limb and imagine they'll get special permission to make a block. The 690 was only allowed to be sold as a reference card, except for EVGA's blocked card. I'd imagine the odds are decent that the same situation will happen here.


But the blocked card was still a reference card







.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Is there a ballpark price range for the H320 yet?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Is there a ballpark price range for the H320 yet?


around $160


----------



## Snuckie7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> We are still in discussion as to whether or not there will be a 120 version of this kit. It will most likely depend on how much interest there is in the new kit when it comes out and what the projected interest will be in a 120 version.


People who can't fit dual rads (like me) would be *very* interested.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> around $160


I really want the H320, but I'd have to possibly go 1-2 months without a CPU cooler, my H100i is sold Mar 6th.


----------



## SkateZilla

I didnt see this posted so.

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5188/swiftech-h220-compact-drive-ii-cpu-water-cooler-review/index.html


----------



## MeanBruce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> around $160


I was guessing $159, that's awesome Stephenm. Any more news on the release date of the H320? I'm gonna be green with envy when you guys begin installing your H220s in a week or so, I'll still be waiting patiently.









Reminds me, I have to order another Sanyo fan, the H320 uses 3 fans, geez.

Yup, I've got just the right amount of radiator space for that gorgeous H320.


----------



## WALSRU

Well H220, looks like I won't open you up after all. The Titan cooler is just too dang pretty. CPU only loop for a while I'm sure.


----------



## xNovax

Any date set for release?


----------



## Neo Zuko

Mmm perhaps the H320 would be worth going a month or two without... It would fit right in my case...


----------



## MeanBruce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Mmm perhaps the H320 would be worth going a month or two without... It would fit right in my case...


Definitely worth considering M8, you do have the most amazing enthusiast chassis on the planet, and plenty of room up top. Dude, you could even handle an H420 if Swiftech decides to make one available in the future.

Beautiful chassis, CaseLabs brother.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkateZilla*
> 
> I didnt see this posted so.
> 
> http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5188/swiftech-h220-compact-drive-ii-cpu-water-cooler-review/index.html


i dont like how they didnt compare it to its immediate rivals...where is the h100i or h100? or the Thermalake 2.0 Extreme?


----------



## SkateZilla

or even test the expandibility.


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> around $160


That is good to hear! I cant wait to stick the h320 in my case!

Also Stephen or Bram could you tell gabe to possibly add little plastic windows to the radiator reservoir or maybe make the whole reservoir clear? So its easier to monitor. Also another suggestions the cap on the radiator any possible way to make them like the drain plugs for car radiators. They are tooles can use your hand to loosen them! Most Automobiles use them thought it would make it more convenient for people to use instead of using a screwdriver or a quarter. Just a suggestion

Look something like!
https://www.google.com/search?q=radiator+drain+plug&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=vOgjUYLAL8m7iwLG5oCQCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=956#imgrc=dItOJiLH8hPreM%3A%3BwwtGJuPZhsDhNM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.autoparts101.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2011%252F02%252F1998-Cadillac-Catera-Drain-Plug-Image.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.autoparts101.com%252F1998-cadillac-catera-radiator-drain-plug-question%252F1998-cadillac-catera-drain-plug-image%252F%3B1024%3B768


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> That is good to hear! I cant wait to stick the h320 in my case!
> 
> Also Stephen or Bram could you tell gabe to possibly add little plastic windows to the radiator reservoir or maybe make the whole reservoir clear? So its easier to monitor. Also another suggestions the cap on the radiator any possible way to make them like the drain plugs for car radiators. They are tooles can use your hand to loosen them! Most Automobiles use them thought it would make it more convenient for people to use instead of using a screwdriver or a quarter. Just a suggestion
> 
> Look something like!


It would be virtually impossible to add a plastic window to an otherwise brass/copper radiator. To do so would also reduce the cooling potential of this radiator. The quick-drain plugs that you referenced would cause significant clearance issues and would therefore make the radiator much more difficult to install in the vast majority of chassis. You have some good ideas, but these are things that Gabe and Stephen have already thought of. My suggestion for the reservoir would be to simply add an acrylic reservoir to the loop so that you would have the functionality of being able to visually monitor your coolant level. Some of the acrylic reservoirs on the market will also allow you to add a drain line.


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> It would be virtually impossible to add a plastic window to an otherwise brass/copper radiator. To do so would also reduce the cooling potential of this radiator. The quick-drain plugs that you referenced would cause significant clearance issues and would therefore make the radiator much more difficult to install in the vast majority of chassis. You have some good ideas, but these are things that Gabe and Stephen have already thought of. My suggestion for the reservoir would be to simply add an acrylic reservoir to the loop so that you would have the functionality of being able to visually monitor your coolant level. Some of the acrylic reservoirs on the market will also allow you to add a drain line.


Right on! Was not really considering Case chassis sizes as far as the cap went. Good points! I am sure my loop will expand with time so another reservoir is not out the questions. Thanks!


----------



## shellbunner

I'm needing some opinions on which one to get; the H220 or H320.
I have the Caselabs SM8, and I am able to fit a 480 up top, a 240 on the bottom with my PSU installed, and a 360 in the front.
I'm going to be watercooling a few gpus in the future, so I'm trying to decide which product to go for, and which additional radiators to purchase.
My wife is looking for some things to get me for my birthday in 3 weeks so if I can get some things for my new water setup, that would be great.

Option 1. Should I get a MCR420-QP-K for the top, and a H320 for the front?
Option 2. Or a H220 for the top, a MCR220-QP-K for the top also, and then a MCR320-QP-K for the front?
I'm thinking if I wait for the H320 for the top, I'll have an empty 120mm spot up top, and I don't want to use a case fan there because I'm concerned it will either exhaust hot air right back into the radiator next to it, or if I run it as an intake, it will just push the hot air from outside the case back in.

I hope this makes sense. I'm willing to wait for the H320, but input from the smart people here will be appreciated.
Also, what parts will I need to connect the multiple radiators to each other and mount them? Are screws and such included?
I'm brand new to watercooling, so I'm just trying to make sure I don't forget any parts.

Thank you


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shellbunner*
> 
> I'm needing some opinions on which one to get; the H220 or H320.
> I have the Caselabs SM8, and I am able to fit a 480 up top, a 240 on the bottom with my PSU installed, and a 360 in the front.
> I'm going to be watercooling a few gpus in the future, so I'm trying to decide which product to go for, and which additional radiators to purchase.
> My wife is looking for some things to get me for my birthday in 3 weeks so if I can get some things for my new water setup, that would be great.
> 
> Option 1. Should I get a MCR420-QP-K for the top, and a H320 for the front?
> Option 2. Or a H220 for the top, a MCR220-QP-K for the top also, and then a MCR320-QP-K for the front?
> I'm thinking if I wait for the H320 for the top, I'll have an empty 120mm spot up top, and I don't want to use a case fan there because I'm concerned it will either exhaust hot air right back into the radiator next to it, or if I run it as an intake, it will just push the hot air from outside the case back in.
> 
> I hope this makes sense. I'm willing to wait for the H320, but input from the smart people here will be appreciated.
> Also, what parts will I need to connect the multiple radiators to each other and mount them? Are screws and such included?
> I'm brand new to watercooling, so I'm just trying to make sure I don't forget any parts.
> 
> Thank you


In your situation I would get the H220 and a 420-QP rad. Put the 480 up top and the 240 rad in the bottom. I don't think you could fit the included 240 rad and another 240 rad both up top linearly.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Well the nice thing about 360 is that does not take up flex bay room in sm8 vs 480.


----------



## shellbunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> In your situation I would get the H220 and a 420-QP rad. Put the 480 up top and the 240 rad in the bottom. I don't think you could fit the included 240 rad and another 240 rad both up top linearly.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Well the nice thing about 360 is that does not take up flex bay room in sm8 vs 480.


Thx Phelan, I didn't consider that. Much appreciated. +rep

Neo, that is a good point. I don't currently run any optical drives or anything in the flex bays and don't plan on it, but thank you. +rep

Couple things when I'm looking at my case, if I run the H220 on the bottom, I don't know if the tubing would be long enough to reach the CPU and not get blocked by the GPU's?
I'm also considering an H320 on the top pushed all the way back, and a 120mm intake fan on the top in the front, or just not using that 120mm space, and closing it off. And then a 320-QP radiator on the front.

Hmmmm....Decisions decisions....

Thx guys.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shellbunner*
> 
> Thx Phelan, I didn't consider that. Much appreciated. +rep
> 
> Neo, that is a good point. I don't currently run any optical drives or anything in the flex bays and don't plan on it, but thank you. +rep
> 
> Couple things when I'm looking at my case, if I run the H220 on the bottom, I don't know if the tubing would be long enough to reach the CPU and not get blocked by the GPU's?
> I'm also considering an H320 on the top pushed all the way back, and a 120mm intake fan on the top in the front, or just not using that 120mm space, and closing it off. And then a 320-QP radiator on the front.
> 
> Hmmmm....Decisions decisions....
> 
> Thx guys.


If you're adding another radiator to the loop, like the 480, you'll most likely be adding to or replacing the tubing altogether, so tubing length should be a non-issue.


----------



## shellbunner

Ok, that makes sense. I didn't see the black tubing on their site for sale separately, so is it possibly coming out with the release of the H220? I would prefer black over clear.
If I do the 480 up top, plus the H220 on the bottom, will the tubing get pretty messy or is it pretty easy to keep it organized?
And, with the radiator on the bottom, should I raise my case off the carpet? I imagine it will get clogged/dusty pretty quickly.

Sorry for all the questions. I hope I'm not getting in over my head.

Thx for your help.


----------



## justanoldman

Shellbunner,
Nothing will be included with a H220 or H320 to expand it, and I am guessing you are right that most cases won't allow a stock H220 mounted on the bottom without buying extra tubing and modifying it. Basically you will need to buy the H220 plus the extra rad, more than enough extra tubing to get everything to reach, more coolant to fill it all again, and fittings. I was told you would want the 3/8 x 5/8 in either a barb fitting or Lok-Seal compression fitting. Then you obviously need waterblocks and back plates for you GPUs, so you can see this gets expensive fast.

You said you would be watercooling the gpus in the future, and I think many people are planning the same thing. I would recommend you order the H220 to cool your CPU, and put the radiator in the top since it will reach that way. That installation is easy and there is already a video on their website for it. Expanding it to cool GPUs is not simple or easy for the inexperienced, but after the product is out for a little bit, there will be guides and video on how to do it. That will make it much easier.


----------



## shellbunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Shellbunner,
> Nothing will be included with a H220 or H320 to expand it, and I am guessing you are right that most cases won't allow a stock H220 mounted on the bottom without buying extra tubing and modifying it. Basically you will need to buy the H220 plus the extra rad, more than enough extra tubing to get everything to reach, more coolant to fill it all again, and fittings. I was told you would want the 3/8 x 5/8 in either a barb fitting or Lok-Seal compression fitting. Then you obviously need waterblocks and back plates for you GPUs, so you can see this gets expensive fast.
> 
> You said you would be watercooling the gpus in the future, and I think many people are planning the same thing. I would recommend you order the H220 to cool your CPU, and put the radiator in the top since it will reach that way. That installation is easy and there is already a video on their website for it. Expanding it to cool GPUs is not simple or easy for the inexperienced, but after the product is out for a little bit, there will be guides and video on how to do it. That will make it much easier.


Thank you for all the information!
I'll probably run it on the top until I can get more radiators and I won't need them until I get new gpus.
Once I get the new 480 radiator, I'll put that up top, and the H220 on the bottom.
Thanks for your help!


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shellbunner*
> 
> Thank you for all the information!
> I'll probably run it on the top until I can get more radiators and I won't need them until I get new gpus.
> Once I get the new 480 radiator, I'll put that up top, and the H220 on the bottom.
> Thanks for your help!


No problem, there are lots of people getting into watercooling for the first time who want to learn how to expand the H220 so you will be in good company.


----------



## TeeBlack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> No problem, there are lots of people getting into watercooling for the first time who want to learn how to expand the H220 so you will be in good company.


i know i am one of those people. im excited and nervous at the same time.


----------



## AWC5004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shellbunner*
> 
> Ok, that makes sense. I didn't see the black tubing on their site for sale separately, so is it possibly coming out with the release of the H220? I would prefer black over clear.
> If I do the 480 up top, plus the H220 on the bottom, will the tubing get pretty messy or is it pretty easy to keep it organized?
> And, with the radiator on the bottom, should I raise my case off the carpet? I imagine it will get clogged/dusty pretty quickly.
> 
> Sorry for all the questions. I hope I'm not getting in over my head.
> 
> Thx for your help.


You can use any 3/8 ID 5/8 OD tubing you like. Places like FrozenCPU have a lot of options to choose from.

I personally recommend the Primochill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT stuff.


----------



## Neo Zuko

I'm getting the Advanced LRT white tubing as well. Seems to be the best tubing to get right now.

Just ordered my MIPS RIVE Copper Pom waterblock set for my RIVE mobo:



I already have the AquaComputer MSI 680 Lightning waterblock:



I just need a Swiftech H220/H320 to complete the set:



I'm defiantly going to be modding in some custom artwork on top of that CPU Pump:


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> No problem, there are lots of people getting into watercooling for the first time who want to learn how to expand the H220 so you will be in good company.


I'm a first time watercooler, but I've been reading up and asking questions for months.


----------



## Roadkill95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> i dont like how they didnt compare it to its immediate rivals...where is the h100i or h100? or the Thermalake 2.0 Extreme?


I loved it. For me it was rx360 vs h220 and that chart clearly showed that the rx360 isn't worth the premium over the swiftech.

Plus the swiftech had a 240 rad. I might just be the bullet and get the 360 with white tubing after all.


----------



## WALSRU

February is almost over guys!


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> February is almost over guys!


Tell me about it, I just picked up a HydrGen 580, and its killing me staring at this card without any blood in it.


----------



## shellbunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> I'm getting the Advanced LRT white tubing as well. Seems to be the best tubing to get right now.


Thank you both for the tubing suggestions. I'll be ordering the black tubing.









@Neo, since we have the same case, how are you going to configure the radiators and tubing? I'm thinking H220, but are you holding out for the H320?


----------



## MeanBruce

Thanks for the info guys, I'm going with the Primoflex Advanced LRT also, red for now, may go white later this year when Corsair gets the AX860 sleeved kits in. We can just reuse the Swiftech clamps can't we? And top off the reservoir?

3/8x5/8 sounds great.



Looks like Performance-PCS carries every color and dimension:

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=59_413_292_1153

This is a great way to upgrade from an H100i without going full custom water. Getting your feet wet.









Is this the coolant we should get if we plan on switching out the tubing?



http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_381_1063&products_id=32749

I just gave the last 20 posters a rep+, everyone here is a good guy, and we're all in this together.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> Thanks for the info guys, I'm going with the Primoflex Advanced LRT also, red for now, may go white later this year when Corsair gets the AX860 sleeved kits in. We can just reuse the Swiftech clamps can't we? And top off the reservoir?
> 
> 3/8x5/8 sounds great.
> 
> Looks like Performance-PCS carries every color and dimension:
> 
> http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=59_413_292_1153
> 
> This is a great way to upgrade from an H100i without going full custom water. Getting your feet wet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this the coolant we should get if we plan on switching out the tubing?


We will be carrying the same coolant that comes in the H220 around the same time that the H220 comes out. You can use our HydrX PM if you want though.


----------



## kevindd992002

Still no clue if it fits the HAF922?


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Still no clue if it fits the HAF922?


it'll fit (pic from Indulgence):


Different setup, but yeah, same thing really.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Still no clue if it fits the HAF922?


ez12a comes through again! Great picture and thanks for posting it. +rep!


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> it'll fit (pic from Indulgence):
> 
> 
> Different setup, but yeah, same thing really.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> ez12a comes through again! Great picture and thanks for posting it. +rep!


Thanks. Here's my case actually:



As discussed earlier, won't it have clearance issues with the heatsinks and 8-pin power connector of my board?


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> around $160


The H220 is $139.95, assuming $159.95 for the H320, the only difference is the rad size correct, everything else is the same? I only ask because the difference between the 220QP and 320QP is $14, so I wanted to see if there was anything else different.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Thanks. Here's my case actually:
> 
> As discussed earlier, won't it have clearance issues with the heatsinks and 8-pin power connector of my board?


Just be sure to hook up your 8-pin power cable before installing the radiator. You should also have the tubing coming down from the back of the case closes to the exhaust fan. This will give you the space you need for the reservoir.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> The H220 is $139.95, assuming $159.95 for the H320, the only difference is the rad size correct, everything else is the same? I only ask because the difference between the 220QP and 320QP is $14, so I wanted to see if there was anything else different.


That will be the only difference at this point. Just the radiator size will be different between these two products.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> The H220 is $139.95, assuming $159.95 for the H320, the only difference is the rad size correct, everything else is the same? I only ask because the difference between the 220QP and 320QP is $14, so I wanted to see if there was anything else different.


and a third fan (and slightly more tubing/coolant)


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Thanks. Here's my case actually:
> 
> 
> 
> As discussed earlier, won't it have clearance issues with the heatsinks and 8-pin power connector of my board?


worst case scenario, you remove the fans from the h220 and have them mounted outside and the radiator inside (w/ finger guards on the 120mms). People have fit H100s with fans inside so it's doable. This is how i plan on using the h220 with my 600t (which has much less clearance).


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Just be sure to hook up your 8-pin power cable before installing the radiator. You should also have the tubing coming down from the back of the case closes to the exhaust fan. This will give you the space you need for the reservoir.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> worst case scenario, you remove the fans from the h220 and have them mounted outside and the radiator inside (w/ finger guards on the 120mms). People have fit H100s with fans inside so it's doable.


But I thought that the tall heatsinks of my board might interfere?


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> But I thought that the tall heatsinks of my board might interfere?


the radiator by itself is not that thick, maybe just a tiny bit thicker than a set of 120mm fans. What you can try doing is stacking 2 120mm fans together and doing a test fit to see if that gives you enough clearance. Just imagine the cooler and fan setup being a little bit thicker.

Trust, I can mount the h100i inside without fans in my 600t which has less clearance than your 922. I have the 922 too. It just depends if you're OK with having the fans on the outside of the case if it comes to that.


----------



## justanoldman

Thanks Bram and Stephen, makes perfect sense.

Since the H220 and H320 have the QP rads, would it be best to expand them with another QP or XP rad? Or does that just depend on whether we want to run a little slower fans (use the QP) or faster fans (use the XP)?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> the radiator by itself is not that thick, maybe just a tiny bit thicker than a set of 120mm fans.
> 
> Trust, I can mount the h100i inside without fans in my 600t which has less clearance than your 922. I have the 922 too. It just depends if you're OK with having the fans on the outside of the case.


Well, I have no questions with the radiator being able to mount it on top. My concern is the fans as I want them inside the case.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Well, I have no questions with the radiator being able to mount it on top. My concern is the fans as I want them inside the case.


well if you want to wait for me to get mine i can do a test fit in my 922 with an old motherboard i have, or if swiftech gets to it before I do lol.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> well if you want to wait for me to get mine i can do a test fit in my 922 with an old motherboard i have, or if swiftech gets to it before I do lol.


I can wait for that, no problem. Thanks man!


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TeeBlack*
> 
> i know i am one of those people. im excited and nervous at the same time.


Same here man. H220 will be my first step into watercooling as well. If my RMAed 7970 wont overclock well i'll be getting a reference 7970 and adding a waterblock and another radiator to expand on the H220. I had initially planned to go all out custom with an expensive speced Apogee II build but figured i'd take baby steps on my first go. The idea of minimizing leak points with H220 is enticing because i'll be moving the rig a lot.

What i'm wondering is the coolant that is in the h220 will be sold separately because i would imagine i need more to fill another radiator for the GPU. - Nvm i see Bram already answered that question.

This has probably already been asked as well but i'm wondering if Swiftech will offer it in different colorations (tubing wise)? Also we can replace original black tubing with whatever 3/8x5/8 we want right? We're just restricted to the regular barb fittings due to the swivel barbs on the radiator and pump/block?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Thanks Bram and Stephen, makes perfect sense.
> 
> Since the H220 and H320 have the QP rads, would it be best to expand them with another QP or XP rad? Or does that just depend on whether we want to run a little slower fans (use the QP) or faster fans (use the XP)?


That's correct, it will just depend on what kind of performance that you want to get from your radiator and what kind of noise you're able to deal with. The H220 was designed for quiet performance and therefore it would be best to go with another QP radiator to keep noise levels down.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*
> 
> Same here man. H220 will be my first step into watercooling as well. If my RMAed 7970 wont overclock well i'll be getting a reference 7970 and adding a waterblock and another radiator to expand on the H220. I had initially planned to go all out custom with an expensive speced Apogee II build but figured i'd take baby steps on my first go. The idea of minimizing leak points with H220 is enticing because i'll be moving the rig a lot.
> 
> What i'm wondering is the coolant that is in the h220 will be sold separately because i would imagine i need more to fill another radiator for the GPU. - Nvm i see Bram already answered that question.
> 
> This has probably already been asked as well but i'm wondering if Swiftech will offer it in different colorations (tubing wise)? Also we can replace original black tubing with whatever 3/8x5/8 we want right? We're just restricted to the regular barb fittings due to the swivel barbs on the radiator and pump/block?


We are working on a unit that will come with white tubing. We will also be selling other colors of compatible tubing separately around the same time that the H220 comes out.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Thanks Bram and Stephen, makes perfect sense.
> 
> Since the H220 and H320 have the QP rads, would it be best to expand them with another QP or XP rad? Or does that just depend on whether we want to run a little slower fans (use the QP) or faster fans (use the XP)?


you got it right: QP for fans running under 1,200 RPM and XP for fans running < 1,500 RPM. (between 1200 and 1500 there is just not much of a difference)


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> you got it right: QP for fans running under 1,200 RPM and XP for fans running < 1,500 RPM. (between 1200 and 1500 there is just not much of a difference)


If we throw some 2000 RPM fans on this, can we expect to see better performance? If so, how much better? Maybe 3-5C?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> If we throw some 2000 RPM fans on this, can we expect to see better performance? If so, how much better? Maybe 3-5C?


that would depend on the overall heat load.


----------



## msgclb

Quote:
Originally Posted by *ez12a* 

it'll fit (pic from Indulgence):


> Spoiler: HAF 922
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Different setup, but yeah, same thing really.


If I'm correct that Swiftech rad and fan above have a thickness of 59mm. I have an old Thermochill 240 radiator that's 60mm thick. I laid it inside my HAF 922 case to see how it fit.



It comes down to the top of the motherboard.

It does look like the H220 should fit considering that the H220 and fan is 54mm.

I also did this "paper" fitting.



The red line is approximately where the motherboard is located.

As shown there's at least 10mm of clearance with the rear fan so I think there should be space for the reservoir in the front or back of the case.

The top bay probably won't be usable.

If I actually use my HAF 922 then I'm going to move it towards to the front of the case.

Of course this mean drilling holes but I'm prepared to do that.

Considering there's only 8 days left in February then maybe I should open an account at Swiftech!


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> We are working on a unit that will come with white tubing. We will also be selling other colors of compatible tubing separately around the same time that the H220 comes out.


Good to hear i'll be picking up some UV blue then


----------



## AWC5004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> I'm getting the Advanced LRT white tubing as well. Seems to be the best tubing to get right now.


I have the white myself and love it. Plenty of flex with little kink.

Quick tip when installing the tube, boil some water and dip the end of the tube in there for 30sec or so. Makes installing the tubing over the barbs much easier.


----------



## sikkly

Have you guys over at swiftech released the dimensions for the pump+block? I looked on the main website and didn't see any dimensions for it. Height, in particular, is what I'm looking for.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Have you guys over at swiftech released the dimensions for the pump+block? I looked on the main website and didn't see any dimensions for it. Height, in particular, is what I'm looking for.


56 mm from the base and that's accounting for the honeycomb top


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shellbunner*
> 
> Thank you both for the tubing suggestions. I'll be ordering the black tubing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @Neo, since we have the same case, how are you going to configure the radiators and tubing? I'm thinking H220, but are you holding out for the H320?


I could tell you a generic answer, but the more important thing is the "why" behind the plan. With that info, you could make your own plan. And since most users of the H220 are likely to be at early stages of watercooling research, the info below should be of use:

The first priority in my build plan is to have a large radiator area to allow for my fans to run super silent. My PC will be used as my main rig yes, gaming yes, but also as a Blu-Ray ripping-transcoding-movie watching jukebox. With the WD Black 4TB HDs, no need for Blu-Ray ads, fumbling for Blu-Ray cases, loading discs, etc. It's all about the spacebar-play button with a mild compression but still beats iTunes HD files by a country mile. So it needs to be silent, but I also need room for max HDs to store all these Blu-Rays with reasonable compression. Sure I could do external drives, but the costs are higher on those products. I have four spots (2 HDs, 2 SSDs) on the back of the SM8 I will be filling, and a Flex-Bay HD cage gives me a fan intake plus 4 more HDs. That plus a Blu-Ray burner should max out my Sata abilities on my RIVE.

The next priority is positive pressure. More fans blowing in than blowing out will keep the case dust resistant and channels the air better. To accomplish this, I plan on 5x120mm intake fans, 4x120 exhaust fans. The intake locations will be two bottom-front case mounted fans next to the large bottom mounted AX1200i PSU, two front case intakes in the Flex-Bays taking up 6 slots. The last intake is the traditional rear 120mm spot, flipped around for bringing air in. The exhausts will be the 4 fan locations at the top of the case. Positive pressure!! I suppose you could even run the exhausts a bit slower than the intakes to help.

Lets talk Flex-Bays. The SM8 has 11 of them. The ST10 case has more, a selling point, but wastes space otherwise if you only want to use EATX and 60mm rads with push pull fans. Martin Labs states that 30mm shrouds between the fans and the rads are beneficial if you have the room, to put some space between the fan hub and the rad (the SR-1 has a mini built in shroud on one side even) but I would not buy a bigger case just to do this. So for me even with the pedestal which I am getting, the SM8 is just more useful with the space it takes up. It's more money, but the pedestal is worth it and gives superior rad support anyway. The ST10 is seemingly only good for triple thick rads (more than 60mm), bigger than EATX mobos, using the mid-case PSU support bracket, and excessive Flex-Bay support (possible front mounted rads or a billion disc drives). I'll stick with my SM8 plus pedestal over that.

Starting from the bottom, you have the Maelstrom Res with pumps and pump heatsink taking up 2 slots. Normally you would have to use 3 slots to add that heatsink, but since it is safer for leaks to have the res at a lower posistion anyway, might as well put that at the bottom where there is extra clearance so I don't waste a Flex slot just for that. Of course that means the heatsink will be at the bottom of the case, but nothing a spot fan could not fix and really it will be jammed in by other bay equipment anyway no matter what. At least the bottom of the case is pure aluminum for additional heat transfer. Next, I will have a 3 slot 120mm fan. That's it, this takes up 3 more slots. This leaves room to fill up or top off the bottom mounted res, anything above that would block the fill port anyway. Next we have another 3 slot fan intake, but with a 4 slot HD cage in tow. Next we have the Blu-Ray Burner taking up 1 slot. This leaves 2 slots free, which will be vented blank covers to allow for a top mounted 60mm 480 SR-1 rad with push pull fans. And a vented PSU cover at the back for good measure. Alternatively, you could mount a 360 SR-1 or the H320, and gain those two slots back. If you go die hard and just remove the bottom most front fan on a 60mm 480 rad with push pull (or run single fans. The rad is just under 60mm, each fan is 25mm on top of that), you might only need the one Flex slot for clearance. The H220/H320 uses a thin rad, so in smaller cases it will fit better. But in this SM8 case with room for 60mm rads with push pull fans, you are not maximizing your rad ability at all, it is just too thin for the space you have. In general, more rad area is better, allows for lower fan speeds and lower temps, no need for such a thin rad here. Which is why I want to replace it eventually. However, for 480 rads with push pull fans, it is defiantly two Flex slots off to the slaughter. Since I am using PWM (pulse with modulation) for fan control instead of voltage fan control, I don't have to buy a fan controller or use a Flex slot for one. My mobo can control it all. And its more heat/power effective and less complicated on fan controlling and there is no need for fan controller heatsinks/waterblocks.

Then I will mount the pedestal on top of the SM8. It holds dual side mounted 480 rads with push pull fans. Now you have 3 big 480 rads, all venting up and away from the mobo compartment without affecting the positive pressure of the case at all. And as they say, heat rises. Plenty of system elbow room, but not too wasteful. The only issue I see is that you better have a leak proof system, cus of all the water is up top in those rads. So I am sacrificing absolute backup safety for elegance of design. A bottom mounted pedestal would not have airflow as graceful for triple 480 rads. Now if I drop it to dual 480 rads, then a bottom mounted pedestal makes more sense in promoting safety, keeping most of the water lower than the mobo area.

The take away idea is if you are going to watercool, why dump that heat back into the case? Heat is the enemy, it ruins electronics. Keep it away if you can. With the SM8 plus a pedestal, you really don't have to dump the heat back in. If I was not going to use a pedestal, I'd mount a 480 with push pull on the roof blowing up and call it a day. Use all the other spots to blow in for positive pressure. Which for a filter free system is ideal, or even one with filters. It blows the dust right out. The other thing is Martin Labs states is you can gain about 10-20% rad performance in most cases if you go push pull instead of single fan. Some don't believe that is worth the cost, but for a thinner H220 or H320 it totally is as you don't have massive amounts of rads area.

All that said, We are talking ideal situations with unlimited money. And there is such a thing as overkill. I certainly can't afford all of this watercooling stuff right away, making the H220 or H320 a very tempting proposition in the short term, or for those with smaller cases, and is arguably much more than "good enough" if money is tight for the long term too. Then later, when you get upgraditis and more money, you can build off of the H220/H330. That's what I love about it so much. And you get a cool flow adding CPU block instead of a flow robbing one. In choosing between the H220 and H320, the rule of thumb is that you have 120mm of rad area per waterblock, plus another 120mm of rad area for overhead, and the rest is gravy for silence and low fan speeds. But that costs money and is not a need as much as a want. 60mm rads are generally the norm nowadays, one big rad is cheaper and better on flow restriction than two half sized rads. So you might try to partner up a H220 with a 60mm thick 480, or partner up a H320 with a 60mm thick 240, just try to maximize the rad area and thickness for what you can spend and fit. Some go crazy on the super thick Monsta Rads, but I like the build quality better on the HardwareLabs brand which uses the 60mm size. In a smaller system where I was not getting or had a pedestal, it really all depends on your other PC equipment and what other rads you want to do. But I would try to fit in somewhere at least one 60mm SR-1 480 rad with push pull fans (or 360 if you had to step down in size), esp in the SM8 case as it seems silly not to. Now as to which way I will go, top rads for triple 480 rad airflow grace or dual bottom rads for absolute safety, not sure. I'm leaning towards the former option tho. I'm all about keeping the res on bottom Flex Bay slot however. As my only acrylic water holding device, It just seems safer that way.

As for tubing, the answer is keep it as simple as possible. Other than the res coming before the pump and placed higher than the pump (and really that is only a concern as you are filling and bleeding - after the loop is full, you can place it lower - just as long as you never risk running the pump dry, which is not an issue once the loop is full), use the most direct route with the least tube crossings for the cleanest look. There is so little difference in the hottest part of the loop to the coldest, that order of blocks and rads should never factor in. In my case, I will have two pumps. One on the H220/H320, and one on the Maelstrom Res (or two, depending on my wallet). This will give me a backup pump should one fail, and I can turn the CPU one off while filling and bleeding, water will still flow just fine, and later keep it at low speeds during operation for silence if I have to. So I don't need to worry about the H220/H320 pump should I take out the rad with the built in res. For those who want to replace just the Swiftech rad with the built in res but don't want to lose the res, a Swiftech Micro Res 2 would be an excellent option. A second pump is useful for increasing the flow and makes for a backup in case of pump failure. Unlike a heatsink fan setup which can still radiate heat after a fan failure, if the pump fails to move water it could kill your PC a lot quicker.

BTW, all my PC parts are detailed in my signature rig "The Avatar State" just below all my posts, I am working on buying the watercooling parts now.


----------



## Blackops_2

Would the radiator that comes with the h220 be able to handle CPU + GPU or would waiting for the H320 be the better option for that rout? If i had to add another radiator it would be on the bottom of the 800D which would of course require some work.


----------



## Neo Zuko

I think the H220 can handle a CPU and single GPU just fine, but I would upgrade the fans to push pull. The H320 will just handle it better (meaning with more possible silence), esp with the H320 in push pull. In general, I'd go as big as you can fit on the rads/fans as far as the H220 and H320 are concerned. Tho for CPU only, just grab a H220 with single or push pull fans. H320 is likely overkill for just a CPU.


----------



## shellbunner

Holy comment!
I will start looking at other 480 radiators. Good idea.

Thanks for the VERY detailed reply.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shellbunner*
> 
> Holy comment!
> I will start looking at other 480 radiators. Good idea.
> 
> Thanks for the VERY detailed reply.


That's Holly Comment "BATMAN", thank you very much. LOL.


----------



## Phishy714

Noob watercooling question:

I'm thinking of getting the H220 only for now and then adding a gpu block in later. I know that stock, the H220 is guaranteed for three years, but once I add the block, I assume that Iwouldhave to drain and clean the setup regularly.

How often would I have to drain and clean a small watercooling setup like that? Also, how much risk is in the fluid evaporation? I would hate for the pump to go bad if there isn't enough fluid in there due to evaporation.

Thanks for the help!


----------



## Blackops_2

H320 is supposed to come shortly after the H220 right? Right now i have a XFX 7970 that just got back from RMA and if it wont overclock well (which i imagine it wont) i'll be putting it in my backup rig and getting a reference 7970. I spec'd a custom loop since i'd have to be expanding but it was up to 300$ and no GPU waterblock added yet. So the H220 or H320 is a lot more on the value side for me.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*
> 
> Would the radiator that comes with the h220 be able to handle CPU + GPU or would waiting for the H320 be the better option for that rout? If i had to add another radiator it would be on the bottom of the 800D which would of course require some work.


It depends on your current thermal situation and what kind of overclocking you intend to do. We demonstrated during CES this year that this kit can handle it though depending on the hardware involved.


----------



## Blackops_2

At first just a 3570k @ stock with a 7970 OCed. Way down the road i'll probably overclock the 3570k as well.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> Noob watercooling question:
> 
> I'm thinking of getting the H220 only for now and then adding a gpu block in later. I know that stock, the H220 is guaranteed for three years, but once I add the block, I assume that Iwouldhave to drain and clean the setup regularly.
> 
> How often would I have to drain and clean a small watercooling setup like that? Also, how much risk is in the fluid evaporation? I would hate for the pump to go bad if there isn't enough fluid in there due to evaporation.
> 
> Thanks for the help!


By adding a GPU block you still won't have to maintenance very often. I do regular maintenance on my loop every 6 to 8 months. Usually though I'm adding or changing something before then so I just clean it out and top it off then. The tubing we chose has very good non-porous properties and therefore you should be able to run your loop for about three years before needing to add more fluid.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*
> 
> At first just a 3570k @ stock with a 7970 OCed. Way down the road i'll probably overclock the 3570k as well.


At that point you might want to start looking at getting a larger radiator or adding a second radiator. It will depend on what your temperatures are once you start overclocking.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> At that point you might want to start looking at getting a larger radiator or adding a second radiator. It will depend on what your temperatures are once you start overclocking.


That's where watercooling shines. It has the ability to keep your PC quiet, overclock it more, and is more far more elegant than a heavy D14 heatsink fan hanging off your mobo.


----------



## MeanBruce

So if we decide later to go with a thicker rad say 60mmx360mm without a self-enclosed reservoir, we could just add a separate res to the loop just that simple? Sounds too easy but that's great.


----------



## TeeBlack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> February is almost over guys!


with about week let left to go you would think there would be a set release date by now. i have a feeling there will be a March release date.


----------



## spikexp

Any idea if it will fit in a 690 II?
Might buy one with 2 more helix 120 pwn (or if you have any other recommendation for it) for push pull, just for the fun.


----------



## TeeBlack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> At that point you might want to start looking at getting a larger radiator or adding a second radiator. It will depend on what your temperatures are once you start overclocking.


im gonna be running an oc'ed 2500k @4.5ghz and an oc'ed 7950 so i plan to add an additional MCR220-QP-K and Komoto 7900 series waterblock or would the H320 be enough for both?


----------



## TeeBlack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spikexp*
> 
> Any idea if it will fit in a 690 II?
> Might buy one with 2 more helix 120 pwn (or if you have any other recommendation for it) for push pull, just for the fun.


i use to have the 690II case. you'll be able to do push/pull at the bottom of the case. you'll only be able to do push or pull at the top of the case.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spikexp*
> 
> Any idea if it will fit in a 690 II?
> Might buy one with 2 more helix 120 pwn (or if you have any other recommendation for it) for push pull, just for the fun.


From what I read, your are better off buying the same 120mm Helix PWM fans. You don't want the fans to fight each other for air, which can happen if they are not matched well.


----------



## Phishy714

Anyone able to find an matx case that would be able to fit an H320 at the top? push/pull would be great, but not necessary.


----------



## shellbunner

So, I'm looking at additional radiators and I've narrowed it down to a couple different ones.
Can I use the Swiftech ⅜" x ⅝" Lok-Seal™ Compression Fittings on the MCR-420QP or Black Ice SR1 480?
If so, how many do I need to run an H220/H320 with a Black Ice SR1 480 for example?

Thanks


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shellbunner*
> 
> So, I'm looking at additional radiators and I've narrowed it down to a couple different ones.
> Can I use the Swiftech ⅜" x ⅝" Lok-Seal™ Compression Fittings on the MCR-420QP or Black Ice SR1 480?
> If so, how many do I need to run an H220/H320 with a Black Ice SR1 480 for example?
> 
> Thanks


All water cooling components currently use the standard G 1/4 ports and therefore you just need to make sure that your fittings match your tubing. You'll need two compression fittings, one for each port on the radiator.


----------



## shellbunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> All water cooling components currently use the standard G 1/4 ports and therefore you just need to make sure that your fittings match your tubing. You'll need two compression fittings, one for each port on the radiator.


Thank you!!!


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TeeBlack*
> 
> im gonna be running an oc'ed 2500k @4.5ghz and an oc'ed 7950 so i plan to add an additional MCR220-QP-K and Komoto 7900 series waterblock or would the H320 be enough for both?


It will depend on what your load temps turn out to be. If you aren't comfortable with them then you should look at adding a second radiator. Each person's situation is going to be different.


----------



## Phelan

BTW, Amazon has some Swiftech Helix 120 non-pwm fans for $6/ea and free shipping (if order is over $25, so order 5 like I did







), for anyone that doesn't need the PWM function but wants a killer deal on some fans







.


----------



## M3TAl

Already ordered two but don't think they ship until the album I pre-ordered drops.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> BTW, Amazon has some Swiftech Helix 120 non-pwm fans for $6/ea and free shipping (if order is over $25, so order 5 like I did
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ), for anyone that doesn't need the PWM function but wants a killer deal on some fans
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


i picked up 4 of these last week. Awesome fans for the price!


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spikexp*
> 
> Any idea if it will fit in a 690 II?
> Might buy one with 2 more helix 120 pwn (or if you have any other recommendation for it) for push pull, just for the fun.


The bottom looks like it would work with the hard drive cage removed.

Up top, you would have to remove the fans, stick them in under the removable top, and then mount the rad beneath with the reservoir down and it will probably have clearance issues with the mother boards.

And in the front isn't even an option.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> Anyone able to find an matx case that would be able to fit an H320 at the top? push/pull would be great, but not necessary.


CaseLabs SM5.

http://www.caselabs-store.com/merlin-sm5-case/

5 PCI slots, room for a 60mm 360 rad with push pull fans on the roof. Perfect for the H320. You might be able to add another 240 rad in the front of the case (and I suppose another 120 rad at the back mobo area) in the Flex Bays while still using one slot for say a disc drive. You will need this:

http://www.caselabs-store.com/120-2-flex-bay-radiator-mount/

And this drop in mount is useful, can you can configure a built in one for free, but then you can't build outside the case no more:

http://www.caselabs-store.com/sm5-120-3-radiator-drop-in-mount/

Don't forget the anit vibration mounts. Again, they come with them in non vibration, these are better:

http://www.caselabs-store.com/flex-bay-5-25-device-mount-short-hd-anti-vibration/

http://www.caselabs-store.com/flex-bay-5-25-device-mount-standard-anti-vibration/

Mo HDs need? No problem:

http://www.caselabs-store.com/flex-bay-hdd-cage-assy/

You get the idea, there are tons of things you can do, add vented cover plates, interior bars that support pumps and fans, etc. My SM8 is the same case in the ETAX flavor and has a cool optional pedestal.

The only barrier is price, it's going to run over $400 with all the extras you have to buy like the rad mounts and whatnot. However, it's like a good coat... It will last and be loved forever. You could buy a cheaper coat, but you will just want a better one later. Believe me I know. My $125 coat let me down. Zipper broke and it has a bad design, not built to last. Its not even warm enough. You get what you pay for. CaseLabs is like the Northface of cases. That said, you should think about if you want to confine yourself to MATX forever. The SM8 is bigger, but not that much I'd imagine, and you get 3 more PCI slots and 480 rad abilities instead of 360. And it is around the same price.

Btw, I'm not championing these brands per say, I just really like them. Swiftech and CaseLabs really made my life easier. Awesome products from both. At the top of their respective games.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shellbunner*
> 
> So, I'm looking at additional radiators and I've narrowed it down to a couple different ones.
> Can I use the Swiftech ⅜" x ⅝" Lok-Seal™ Compression Fittings on the MCR-420QP or Black Ice SR1 480?
> If so, how many do I need to run an H220/H320 with a Black Ice SR1 480 for example?
> 
> Thanks


Indeed, you want Swiftech 3/8 ID 5/8 OD fittings, and each piece in your loop generally has an inlet and an outlet. So just count two per rad/res/block. And from what I read I like the Swiftech fittings the best. They seem to have a really good progressive design to them.

You might want some adapters handy too like 90 degree swivel elbow, 45 degree swivel elbow, 15mm extenders, dual swivel adapters, all nice adapters to play with for a cleaner look, Keep in mind they all still need a compression fitting too, these merely adapt one end of the compression fittings, they don't replace them as I first mistakenly thought.

It's possible using the four-way Swiftech adapter to create a T-Line fill and drain port. They really need an updated special part for this, but if you buy 4 compression fittings, 4 plug caps, dual 4-way adapters, you can craft a Swiftech brand T-Line.

I will always say keep your loop all copper and plastic so that means no plating like Chrome or Nickel, stay with black fittings and non plated blocks. This is a personal opinion mind you but there are reasons for me stating that. Read this:

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/01/24/corrosion-explored/

And for a nice beginners how to video, see this:

http://youtu.be/krgK2dcxJ5g

Back in my early research days this helped me wrap my head around it all. It's a 5-part video guide, this is the most useful part, part 3. It's outdated so I don't agree with the pump decision anymore, I'm fully on board the MCP35X and MCP35X2 pump train, and that case choice is so not as good as CaseLabs offerings, but it was very useful in seeing how he actually filled it up.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> All water cooling components currently use the standard G 1/4 ports and therefore you just need to make sure that your fittings match your tubing. You'll need two compression fittings, one for each port on the radiator.


All true, tho he is talking about adding to the H220/H320 system which is 3/8 5/8, does the H220/H320 pump accept the other sized tubing on those clamps??? Is it even advisable to switch it up mid loop??? I just don't know. I'm married to 3/8 5/8 anyway, I agree with Gabe on that its better for kinks and building.


----------



## spikexp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *spikexp*
> 
> Any idea if it will fit in a 690 II?
> Might buy one with 2 more helix 120 pwn (or if you have any other recommendation for it) for push pull, just for the fun.
> 
> 
> 
> The bottom looks like it would work with the hard drive cage removed.
> 
> Up top, you would have to remove the fans, stick them in under the removable top, and then mount the rad beneath with the reservoir down and it will probably have clearance issues with the mother boards.
> 
> And in the front isn't even an option.
Click to expand...

Just confirmed that I can't put it on top, the fan would hit my ram slot.
And the default tubing probably can't be used to mount it at the bottom.

for the helix, damn I would like for amazon.com to ship to canada.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> All true, tho he is talking about adding to the H220/H320 system which is 3/8 5/8, does the H220/H320 pump accept the other sized tubing on those clamps??? Is it even advisable to switch it up mid loop??? I just don't know. I'm married to 3/8 5/8 anyway, I agree with Gabe on that its better for kinks and building.


The fittings on the H220 are not designed to take any other sized tubing than the 3/8 x 5/8 that it comes with.


----------



## Seufari

Are there plans to release the CPU block/pump combo by itself?


----------



## BramSLI1

This will depend on what we're able to determine the interest in doing so will be. We'll know that once the H220 is released and we can look at the sales data.


----------



## justanoldman

Five.....business.....days.....left.....in.....February.....

Please let me throw away the stock Intel cooler.


----------



## AWC5004

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> So if we decide later to go with a thicker rad say 60mmx360mm without a self-enclosed reservoir, we could just add a separate res to the loop just that simple? Sounds too easy but that's great.


Yep, add a res of your choice and you will be good to go


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Five.....business.....days.....left.....in.....February.....
> 
> Please let me throw away the stock Intel cooler.


Seriously, this is killing me. I pulled the trigger on Titan, I want to have a H220 and Titan block at my door by the beginning of march guys!


----------



## WALSRU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Seriously, this is killing me. I pulled the trigger on Titan, I want to have a H220 and Titan block at my door by the beginning of march guys!


We are like flippin twins!


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> We are like flippin twins!


We will have similar setups at the end of this, lol.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Seriously, this is killing me. I pulled the trigger on Titan, I want to have a H220 and Titan block at my door by the beginning of march guys!


Tell me about it! I can't hold out for the white tubing version. Just placed my pre-order at NCIX with some white anti-kink coil for good looks!








Hope this thing gets here for March break. Taking the week off with my son.


----------



## CTM Audi

Sorry if this has been asked, but too many pages to go through to see if it has been. What brand/model tubing is used? I want to add a vid card, but would like matching tubing. Will swiftech be selling more of the tubing? Also, when refilling, just re-use whats in it + more distilled, or will swiftech sell more of whatever coolant is being used?


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> Sorry if this has been asked, but too many pages to go through to see if it has been. What brand/model tubing is used? I want to add a vid card, but would like matching tubing. Will swiftech be selling more of the tubing? Also, when refilling, just re-use whats in it + more distilled, or will swiftech sell more of whatever coolant is being used?


Both the tubing and coolant for the H220 are supposed to become available to buy when it is released, hopefully within a week or so.


----------



## CTM Audi

Have any reviews compared the pump noise to other known pumps (without the fans included like in Martin's test)? Im trying to get my PC as quiet as possible, and want to know how it compares to the V4 750 or D5. Planning on having a Noctua rear exhaust, and just whatever noise the h220 and Helix fans make. In a 550D, with no HDDs. Currently have Corsair SP120 QEs on a fan controller and can still hear it


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> Have any reviews compared the pump noise to other known pumps (without the fans included like in Martin's test)? Im trying to get my PC as quiet as possible, and want to know how it compares to the V4 750 or D5. Planning on having a Noctua rear exhaust, and just whatever noise the h220 and Helix fans make. In a 550D, with no HDDs. Currently have Corsair SP120 QEs on a fan controller and can still hear it


The pump is PWM, and you can adjust from 1200-3000 rpm. So you set how you want the sound would be.
What you hear is the bad filters used in the 550D. It is very restrictive and will cause much louder noise. Not good if you want quiet case, which the dampening material used is worse than other cases in its field.


----------



## guinner16

Hey guys. Need a lot of help here. I am doing my first build and was set on noctua d14 for cooling. Somebody recommended me to take a look at this. Would this be a much better option, over air cooling, for an obviously novice builder. I do like the idea of next to zero noise, and expanding to cool the two titans I have preorder. Let me know the pluses and minunes as this will release right when I am getting parts in.


----------



## SkateZilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Thanks. Here's my case actually:
> 
> 
> 
> As discussed earlier, won't it have clearance issues with the heatsinks and 8-pin power connector of my board?


I had clearance issues with the H100 on HAF 922 w/ ASRock 990FX Extreme 4.

I solved the issue by moving the fans to the outside of the case, and using the screws that mount the fans to the radiator, put them through the Fan, then the top of the case, and then into the radiator. saved about an Inch.

With the SwifTech, I'll prolly do the Opposite since the Tubes are removable.

Put the radiator on top of the case, put 2 fans on the inside, put the screw up through the fan mount, through case holes and into radiator, then put to more fans on the top


----------



## BramSLI1

Just thought I'd let everyone here know that EVGA will be carrying the Titan as well. There is a Hydro Copper version that EVGA will be selling of this card.


----------



## shellbunner

I measured from the top of my SM8 to the top of my mobo, and I have about 112mm, give or take a few. I can easily run the Swiftech 420QP Push/Pull or I might be able to squeeze a Black Ice SR1 480 Push/Pull.

I plan on running the tubing from the front of the case, so the tubes/fittings won't have a clearance issue with the mobo.

Anything I should be concerned about if I run a thicker rad with Push/Pull that only leaves me maybe 5mm clearance between the fans and the mobo?

Thanks


----------



## SkateZilla

$1000+ for a Card is too much,
Specially when I can beat it with a 6GB Ghz Edition Vapor X at 1200MHz/1700MHz, which still uses less power, and runs cooler.


----------



## mimart7

Can this be mounted to the front of a case? Most pictures I've seen show the unit mounted to the top of the case.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shellbunner*
> 
> I measured from the top of my SM8 to the top of my mobo, and I have about 112mm, give or take a few. I can easily run the Swiftech 420QP Push/Pull or I might be able to squeeze a Black Ice SR1 480 Push/Pull.
> 
> I plan on running the tubing from the front of the case, so the tubes/fittings won't have a clearance issue with the mobo.
> 
> Anything I should be concerned about if I run a thicker rad with Push/Pull that only leaves me maybe 5mm clearance between the fans and the mobo?
> 
> Thanks


Make sure that you plug in any connections that you need at the top of your motherboard before mounting the radiator. Those connectors might not be as accessible after the radiator is installed.


----------



## SkateZilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mimart7*
> 
> Can this be mounted to the front of a case? Most pictures I've seen show the unit mounted to the top of the case.


doubt it, measure the clearance between HDD Rack and front of the case.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Just thought I'd let everyone here know that EVGA will be carrying the Titan as well. There is a Hydro Copper version that EVGA will be selling of this card.


EK already has a waterblock out for it, shipping ETA is 3/4. Not sure about cross posting that here, but since you guys wont have a dedicated block for it, I don't see much of a problem with it.

Comes in 4 styles, same block essentially. here.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkateZilla*
> 
> $1000+ for a Card is too much,
> Specially when I can beat it with a 6GB Ghz Edition Vapor X at 1200MHz/1700MHz, which still uses less power, and runs cooler.


You're talking about an OC'd card versus stock clocked, while its closer to titan than many expected it to be, you are still comparing it to stock clocked titan.


----------



## mimart7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkateZilla*
> 
> doubt it, measure the clearance between HDD Rack and front of the case.


I've already removed the drive cages, so that is not an issue. I have 140 mm intake fans but that problem can be solved with adapters. My concern is if it will perform properly.


----------



## mimart7

nvm


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mimart7*
> 
> Can this be mounted to the front of a case? Most pictures I've seen show the unit mounted to the top of the case.


From what we've been able to determine the tubing won't be long enough to reach the front of the case in most situations. We will be carrying different colors of the same type of tubing about the same time that the H220 is released. To check your own case for the length that you'll need our tubing on this kit is 1 foot and 4 inches for each piece of tubing. That's about 40 and a half centimeters.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mimart7*
> 
> nvm


It should perform properly in that configuration as long as the tubing is able to reach.


----------



## SkateZilla

Most cases have fine mesh/filters on the front that restrict airflow. compared tot eh top being open vent/open mesh.


----------



## mimart7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> It should perform properly in that configuration as long as the tubing is able to reach.


Thanks, I'll measure it when I have a chance.


----------



## shellbunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Make sure that you plug in any connections that you need at the top of your motherboard before mounting the radiator. Those connectors might not be as accessible after the radiator is installed.


Will do. Thx.
I'm getting antsy for this H220!!!!


----------



## SkateZilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Make sure that you plug in any connections that you need at the top of your motherboard before mounting the radiator. Those connectors might not be as accessible after the radiator is installed.


Yeah, had that problem on a current build, installed radiator first, then didnt have enough room to wiggle the 8-Pin CPU power in, had to take radiator out, put the 8-Pin in first, then put radiator back (actually I just took the fan off then put it back on, but you get the idea.)


----------



## sikkly

The end of the month is coming up...Swiftech must like playing with our hearts


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> The end of the month is coming up...Swiftech must like playing with our hearts


Seriously man. I had enough stress with the Titan. I don't need it with this either. LOL


----------



## mimart7

Crud, the distance is too far from the rad ti the cpu. The tubing would have to be more than 18 inches.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mimart7*
> 
> Crud, the distance is too far from the rad ti the cpu. The tubing would have to be more than 18 inches.


I'm sorry to hear that. I can confirm that the tubing on the H320 will be quite a bit longer. I don't think there's time to lengthen the tubing on the H220 before release.


----------



## WALSRU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I don't think there's time to lengthen the tubing on the H220 before release.


There's that _time_ word again . . . care to specify?


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I'm sorry to hear that. I can confirm that the tubing on the H320 will be quite a bit longer. I don't think there's time to lengthen the tubing on the H220 before release.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> There's that _time_ word again . . . care to specify?


Seriously, you're killing us. There is only 6 days left in this damn month. Only 4 of them are business days.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> There's that _time_ word again . . . care to specify?


Sorry, end of this month is the best I can do.


----------



## SkateZilla

just assume Feb. 28th,. that way if it comes before then your stoked.


----------



## SDBolts619

Seriously. My new build is just crying out for a H220 to make it complete...










I'm on auto-notify for Xoxide and FrozenCPU, but still can't resist searching daily to see if there's any update... I think I have an issue here.


----------



## SDBolts619

Ugh, double post.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkateZilla*
> 
> just assume Feb. 28th,. that way if it comes before then your stoked.


Yea, but my titan comes that day, I wanted to spend the weekend getting it all under water and benching.


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SDBolts619*
> 
> I'm on auto-notify for Xoxide and FrozenCPU, but still can't resist searching daily to see if there's any update... I think I have an issue here.


xoxide is showing you can add it to your cart. Is that normal for them, or is it available?

Nevermind, when you add to the cart it says 0 in stock.


----------



## SDBolts619

Hmmm, opinions please:

When I install my H220, should I stick with my usual Arctic Silver 5 or use the Swiftech included thermal paste?

Also, given the pic of my picture:


I'm planning on bottom mounting the radiator on top of the 180mm fans. In the picture, the front right corner of the fans is where I'll line up the right side of the radiator. I'm thinking to use a XSPC 2x120 radiator gasket between the fans and the radiator since I'll probably only be able to screw in the outside screws due to the 180mm fans below. Thoughts here?
I think that it will be a pretty short tubing run from the end of the radiator (I'll set it up so the input/output is on the right side of the picture) to the CPU block. I'm thinking I may want to open up the system to shorten the tubing. The question is, how hard will it be to bleed this? I had a custom watercooled setup a few years back and that was pretty straight forward with the clear tubing and reservoir. This seems like it might be more of a hassle. My guess is that with my setup, bleeding the system will have to be done with the H220 not yet installed, since I'll want that reservoir at the top of the loop for bleeding. Thoughts?


----------



## CTM Audi

How many units are going to be available at launch? Would hate to wait this long, then have it sell out before I can order one.

Will it be orderable from Swiftech directly, or can you start taking pre-orders?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> How many units are going to be available at launch? Would hate to wait this long, then have it sell out before I can order one.
> 
> Will it be orderable from Swiftech directly, or can you start taking pre-orders?


When I asked earlier in the thread Gabe seemed fairly confident that they'd have enough units at launch, if I remember correctly. Hard to say though, interest seems pretty damn high. I plan to build my computer during the second week of March when I go home for break, so I'm hoping I can get everything by than.


----------



## msgclb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkateZilla*
> 
> I had clearance issues with the H100 on HAF 922 w/ ASRock 990FX Extreme 4.
> 
> I solved the issue by moving the fans to the outside of the case, and using the screws that mount the fans to the radiator, put them through the Fan, then the top of the case, and then into the radiator. saved about an Inch.
> 
> With the SwifTech, I'll probably do the Opposite since the Tubes are removable.
> 
> Put the radiator on top of the case, put 2 fans on the inside, put the screw up through the fan mount, through case holes and into radiator, then put to more fans on the top


This was my original conclusion but now I'm putting my Dremel back in its box hoping the H220 will fit inside the HAF 922.

Can someone from the Swiftech team tell us if the H220 will available at one of their suppliers at the same time as it's available on their website.

Not counting today, there are only 4 working days left in February.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> How many units are going to be available at launch? Would hate to wait this long, then have it sell out before I can order one.
> 
> Will it be orderable from Swiftech directly, or can you start taking pre-orders?


We will be selling these directly from our website, but we won't be taking any pre-orders. We will have enough to cover the pre-orders and should also have enough to cover those that want to order them on the day of launch. Of course that will depend on how many are sold on the day of launch.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SDBolts619*
> 
> Hmmm, opinions please:
> 
> When I install my H220, should I stick with my usual Arctic Silver 5 or use the Swiftech included thermal paste?
> 
> Also, given the pic of my picture:
> 
> 
> I'm planning on bottom mounting the radiator on top of the 180mm fans. In the picture, the front right corner of the fans is where I'll line up the right side of the radiator. I'm thinking to use a XSPC 2x120 radiator gasket between the fans and the radiator since I'll probably only be able to screw in the outside screws due to the 180mm fans below. Thoughts here?
> I think that it will be a pretty short tubing run from the end of the radiator (I'll set it up so the input/output is on the right side of the picture) to the CPU block. I'm thinking I may want to open up the system to shorten the tubing. The question is, how hard will it be to bleed this? I had a custom watercooled setup a few years back and that was pretty straight forward with the clear tubing and reservoir. This seems like it might be more of a hassle. My guess is that with my setup, bleeding the system will have to be done with the H220 not yet installed, since I'll want that reservoir at the top of the loop for bleeding. Thoughts?


The included thermal paste that will come with our kit has better thermal properties than Arctic Silver 5.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> The included thermal paste that will come with our kit has better thermal properties than Arctic Silver 5.


Will it be pre-applied or a tube?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Will it be pre-applied or a tube?


It will not be pre-applied.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> It will not be pre-applied.


Thank god, lol.


----------



## mksteez

Is it out yet??


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mksteez*
> 
> Is it out yet??


Next week some time.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Thank god, lol.


Totally agree!


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> From what we've been able to determine the tubing won't be long enough to reach the front of the case in most situations. We will be carrying different colors of the same type of tubing about the same time that the H220 is released. To check your own case for the length that you'll need our tubing on this kit is 1 foot and 4 inches for each piece of tubing. That's about 40 and a half centimeters.


When you say different colors, do you mean just black and white, or are you guys thinking of expanding the colors available beyond that?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> When you say different colors, do you mean just black and white, or are you guys thinking of expanding the colors available beyond that?


At first we will only have white, but we may be expanding to other colors in the future depending on interest.


----------



## twitchyzero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Next week some time.


Newegg account is ready









Are there reviews from bigger tech sites like TPU besides the sketchy methodology one from Tom's? I already know this is a killer value/great performer...just scared first batch may still have kinks to work out that's all.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> Newegg account is ready
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are there reviews from bigger tech sites like TPU besides the sketchy methodology one from Tom's? I already know this is a killer value/great performer...just scared first batch may still have kinks to work out that's all.


What are you trying to say? Are you saying that we would release a product that wasn't fully ready for production? I don't know how to take that.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> What are you trying to say? Are you saying that we would release a product that wasn't fully ready for production? I don't know how to take that.


Don't take it as an insult, he's being a smart consumer. Even the best of companies sometimes make unexpected mistakes and things go wrong at last minute. Something may go wrong last second in production that you don't catch, tolerances may be slightly off and you don't realize it.

The chances of something like that happening are pretty small, but it is something every consumer should keep in the back of their mind. In the end, this is a new pump design, and a lot of people that buy AIO don't exactly have the best experience with pumps(as I'm sure you know).


----------



## Kelt

How up to date is the Swiftech UK retailer list? Reason I ask is that one of the retailers listed, Overclockers UK, have recently stated on their forum that they won't be stocking the H220 or any Swiftech products, due to Swiftech "not supporting them", amongst other reasons, whatever that means.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Don't take it as an insult, he's being a smart consumer. Even the best of companies sometimes make unexpected mistakes and things go wrong at last minute. Something may go wrong last second in production that you don't catch, tolerances may be slightly off and you don't realize it.
> 
> The chances of something like that happening are pretty small, but it is something every consumer should keep in the back of their mind. In the end, this is a new pump design, and a lot of people that buy AIO don't exactly have the best experience with pumps(as I'm sure you know).


No problem. That's true though, sometimes things do go wrong at the last minute that isn't caught before products start to ship. We did what we could on our end to prevent every conceivable problem. For the sake of those that have pre-ordered these and those that purchase them on the first couple of days after the launch, our customer support is here to do what it takes to make you satisfied with your purchase of this new product. We stand behind all of our products and are proud of all of them. Trust me, we are just as excited about this launch as you guys are.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kelt*
> 
> How up to date is the Swiftech UK retailer list? Reason I ask is that one of the retailers listed, Overclockers UK, have recently stated on their forum that they won't be stocking the H220 or any Swiftech products, due to Swiftech "not supporting them", amongst other reasons, whatever that means.


I am not at liberty to discuss anything about that and would just say to purchase from SpecialTech. They should be getting these at about the same time as everyone else does.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> No problem. That's true though, sometimes things do go wrong at the last minute that isn't caught before products start to ship. We did what we could on our end to prevent every conceivable problem. For the sake of those that have pre-ordered these and those that purchase them on the first couple of days after the launch, our customer support is here to do what it takes to make you satisfied with your purchase of this new product. We stand behind all of our products and are proud of all of them. Trust me, *we are just as excited about this launch as you guys are*.


Nuh uh!! We haven't seen you bugging stephen for release date info.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Nuh uh!! We haven't seen you bugging stephen for release date info.


You'll just have to take my word for it that I've been bugging both him and Gabe for release date info. Well, at least info that I'm able to give out.


----------



## msgclb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> We will be selling these directly from our website, but *we won't be taking any pre-orders*. We will *have enough to cover the pre-orders* and should also have enough to cover those that want to order them on the day of launch. Of course that will depend on how many are sold on the day of launch.


I just created a Swiftech account so that should qualify me for *free shipping*!

That was only a little attention getter.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> You'll just have to take my word for it that I've been bugging both him and Gabe for release date info. Well, at least info that I'm able to give out.


Screenshot or it didn't happen.

Man, its been years since I've been able to pull that one out.


----------



## twitchyzero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> No problem. That's true though, sometimes things do go wrong at the last minute that isn't caught before products start to ship. We did what we could on our end to prevent every conceivable problem. For the sake of those that have pre-ordered these and those that purchase them on the first couple of days after the launch, our customer support is here to do what it takes to make you satisfied with your purchase of this new product. We stand behind all of our products and are proud of all of them. Trust me, we are just as excited about this launch as you guys are.


Yeah hope you didn't take offense to my statement.

I know this has been in the works for years and ST is known for quality but for any brand-new designs out on the market it's best for consumers to exercise some caution

Like I said...my money is ready just need reputable 3rd parties to confirm there's absolutely no kinks needed to be ironed out

Oh what free shipping for new customers on ST's site? I'm there! Screw NE!


----------



## Kelt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I am not at liberty to discuss anything about that and would just say to purchase from SpecialTech. They should be getting these at about the same time as everyone else does.


Thanks for the reply. Do you know if Scan Computers (on your list) will be selling it? I get free shipping from them


----------



## mksteez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Next week some time.


Do you think Amazon will be selling them right away?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kelt*
> 
> Thanks for the reply. Do you know if Scan Computers (on your list) will be selling it? I get free shipping from them


Honestly, I don't know. I can only find a single 775 backplate on their site that ours. That doesn't sound too promising to me.


----------



## ez12a

i would love it if microcenter in OC, CA would get it or amazon...either would work! they even have swiftech quad rads in store @ microcenter at this moment!


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> i would love it if microcenter in OC, CA would get it or amazon...either would work! they even have swiftech quad rads in store @ microcenter at this moment!


Microcenter will most certainly be getting these and should have them on launch.


----------



## Nilsom

hello friends

I live in Portugal, I made my purchase of Swiftech H220 which should arrive next week,
the pump support 2 rads?
the shop where I bought talks about 2 year warranty, but the Swiftech speaks three years?
placing the second rad void the warranty?
after putting the second rad, what should I put liquid, and where, through the hole in rad
will be my first WC, sorry for asking so many questions,
and thank you for your attention my friends.
hug


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilsom*
> 
> hello friends
> 
> I live in Portugal, I made my purchase of Swiftech H220 which should arrive next week,
> the pump support 2 rads?
> the shop where I bought talks about 2 year warranty, but the Swiftech speaks three years?
> placing the second rad void the warranty?
> after putting the second rad, what should I put liquid, and where, through the hole in rad
> will be my first WC, sorry for asking so many questions,
> and thank you for your attention my friends.
> hug


This product does come with a 3 year warranty and adding additional radiators or water blocks to it does not void your warranty. This retailer is probably telling you what their warranty is. If you find that your particular unit is defective and this retailer gives you a problem, then contact Bacata.net because they are our distribution partner in Europe. After adding the second radiator you should still be able to fill the unit with the original fill-port in the H220 reservoir.


----------



## Nilsom

thanks for attention friend
but I have to put the liquid toilet running or off?
how will I know if you have blisters or not?
liquid which brand and model should I put?
or should I wait for Swiftech H320, but my desire to buy and great!
now use H100, hopefully be happier with Swiftech.

thank you


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilsom*
> 
> thanks for attention friend
> but I have to put the liquid toilet running or off?
> how will I know if you have blisters or not?
> liquid which brand and model should I put?
> or should I wait for Swiftech H320, but my desire to buy and great!
> now use H100, hopefully be happier with Swiftech.
> 
> thank you


If I understand you correctly you're asking about how to run the pump when filling the reservoir? If that's correct what you'll need to do once you get your other radiator and water blocks installed is to tilt or tip your case while filling it so that your fluid gets to the pump before you start it. You'll need to run it for a couple of seconds and then add more fluid. This process will need to be repeated until the unit is full and fluid is circulating fully. Our fluid for this unit will be sold at about the same time the unit is available for sale.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkateZilla*
> 
> I had clearance issues with the H100 on HAF 922 w/ ASRock 990FX Extreme 4.
> 
> I solved the issue by moving the fans to the outside of the case, and using the screws that mount the fans to the radiator, put them through the Fan, then the top of the case, and then into the radiator. saved about an Inch.
> 
> With the SwifTech, I'll prolly do the Opposite since the Tubes are removable.
> 
> Put the radiator on top of the case, put 2 fans on the inside, put the screw up through the fan mount, through case holes and into radiator, then put to more fans on the top


Ah. Do you have the refill the liquid in the unit if you remove the tubings?


----------



## WALSRU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilsom*
> 
> but I have to put the liquid toilet running or off?
> how will I know if you have blisters or not?


I blame Google translate but this sounds like a weird first date LOL


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> I blame Google translate but this sounds like a weird first date LOL


Where's that Universal Translator that we should have by now?


----------



## Nilsom

I apologize for friends Traduçăo
My English is not very good,
I translated with Google.

was this same friend, you're right.
Thank you for your attention and education

hug


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilsom*
> 
> I apologize for traduçao friends
> my english is not very good,
> and I had to google translate.
> 
> was this same friend, you got it right.
> thank you for your attention and education
> 
> hug


No problem, and I'm glad I was able to help.

hug.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> No problem, and I'm glad I was able to help.


Be nice and hug him back.


----------



## SkateZilla

H220 + Full water block on my 7950s = Heaven.....


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SkateZilla*
> 
> H220 + Full water block on my 7950s = Heaven.....


I hear ya. I have a Komodo block waiting for my 7970, waiting on its H220 brother.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mksteez*
> 
> Do you think Amazon will be selling them right away?


probably not initially unless one of our distributors puts it on the Amazon market place. It should be available fairly quickly from most of the re-sellers listed on our website. http://www.swiftech.com/usresellers.aspx


----------



## [email protected]

Hello all,

We received notification that the shipment for Europe had already arrived. Not sure where they are at of clearing customs, but product should start to ship to resellers pretty rapidly.

Our shipment for the US is scheduled to arrive on March 3rd.

UK Sales: overclock.co.uk already has the product for pre-order on their site.

Scan: we are very good friends with Scan Management, in fact I visited with them last summer.. but they are such large company, it might be helpful if you UK users kind of flooded them with email requests  that would remind them to contact bacata (our Distributor) and place a PO right away to reserve their inventory.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> We received notification that the shipment for Europe had already arrived. Not sure where they are at of clearing customs, but product should start to ship to resellers pretty rapidly.
> 
> Our shipment for the US is scheduled to arrive on March 3rd.


Great! But what about Canada? I've pre-ordered at NCIX Canada.
Throw me a bone here!!!!


----------



## Tom Thumb

OOPS!


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> We received notification that the shipment for Europe had already arrived. Not sure where they are at of clearing customs, but product should start to ship to resellers pretty rapidly.
> 
> Our shipment for the US is scheduled to arrive on March 3rd.
> 
> UK Sales: overclock.co.uk already has the product for pre-order on their site.
> 
> Scan: we are very good friends with Scan Management, in fact I visited with them last summer.. but they are such large company, it might be helpful if you UK users kind of flooded them with email requests  that would remind them to contact bacata (our Distributor) and place a PO right away to reserve their inventory.


Good to hear. That should mean I can get one during the second week of March, which is when I would like to do my build.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> We received notification that the shipment for Europe had already arrived. Not sure where they are at of clearing customs, but product should start to ship to resellers pretty rapidly.
> 
> Our shipment for the US is scheduled to arrive on March 3rd.
> 
> UK Sales: overclock.co.uk already has the product for pre-order on their site.
> 
> Scan: we are very good friends with Scan Management, in fact I visited with them last summer.. but they are such large company, it might be helpful if you UK users kind of flooded them with email requests  that would remind them to contact bacata (our Distributor) and place a PO right away to reserve their inventory.


Well this sucks! titan will be on air for almost 2 weeks :|

Also, I think i've decided to get 2 H220, and mod my server case to use one as well. going to be setting up 2x of the same loop, but the server will have 2 580s in the loop as well









Probably going to be straining her a little bit


----------



## Phelan

*late double post, weird.*


----------



## CTM Audi

How do you get free shipping from the Swiftech site?

Also, this is kind of off topic, but I tried emailing Swiftech support and got the wrong answer. I have a MSI GTX 670 Power Edition, and an MCW-80. What bracket do I need to mount it? The email support just said to get the heat sinks for the ram and VRMs, but never mentioned which bracket to mount the block. Also the card has a uni-sink on it, so Im just going to point a fan at it.

If US retailers are getting it March 3rd, when will it be available to order direct from Swiftech?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> How do you get free shipping from the Swiftech site?
> 
> Also, this is kind of off topic, but I tried emailing Swiftech support and got the wrong answer. I have a MSI GTX 670 Power Edition, and an MCW-80. What bracket do I need to mount it? The email support just said to get the heat sinks for the ram and VRMs, but never mentioned which bracket to mount the block. Also the card has a uni-sink on it, so Im just going to point a fan at it.
> 
> If US retailers are getting it March 3rd, when will it be available to order direct from Swiftech?


I don't know anything about free shipping from our site, but I can tell you that it was probably me that answered your email. I must have somehow misunderstood your question about the bracket. We don't currently have any brackets that are specifically for the 600 series NVidia cards. I think I remember reading somewhere though that the mounting holes for the 600 series are the same as the 400 and 500 series. I don't have anything to confirm that though. When I get into work on Monday I'll talk to Stephen and see if he knows if they are the same. I'm sorry that you didn't get the full answer that you were looking for. Also, you should be able to order the H220 directly from our site on the 3rd of March.


----------



## kevindd992002

I think the H220 will be an overkill for video cards, really.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I don't know anything about free shipping from our site, but I can tell you that it was probably me that answered your email. I must have somehow misunderstood your question about the bracket. We don't currently have any brackets that are specifically for the 600 series NVidia cards. I think I remember reading somewhere though that the mounting holes for the 600 series are the same as the 400 and 500 series. I don't have anything to confirm that though. When I get into work on Monday I'll talk to Stephen and see if he knows if they are the same. I'm sorry that you didn't get the full answer that you were looking for. Also, you should be able to order the H220 directly from our site on the 3rd of March.


Loving it, finally have a date. Thanks in part I'm sure to your hounding of Gabe









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> I think the H220 will be an overkill for video cards, really.


For gfx cards in your loop? I'm not sure, if you're thinking people are directly mounting H220 to a GPU, but everyone I have seen has been talking about adding a GPU block into the H220 loop.


----------



## twitchyzero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I don't know anything about free shipping from our site. Also, you should be able to order the H220 directly from our site on the 3rd of March.


someone few pages was saying new customers get free shipping?

Any idea if Newegg is going to get it the same day?


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> someone few pages was saying new customers get free shipping?
> 
> Any idea if Newegg is going to get it the same day?


If I get free shipping on my first order, I'm going to get 2 H220, 2 220-QPs 6 Helix 120 PWMs, and the compression fittings I need for 2x 580 HydroGens / HydroCoppers and the tubing and fluid for all of it...

xD

Oh, crap forgot about 2 compression fittings for my Titan xD


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> For gfx cards in your loop? I'm not sure, if you're thinking people are directly mounting H220 to a GPU, but everyone I have seen has been talking about adding a GPU block into the H220 loop.


Sorry about that, I was referring to the people modding/mounting an AIO cooler directly to a GPU. I thought the guy who posted was referring to that instance.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> If I get free shipping on my first order, I'm going to get 2 H220, 2 220-QPs 6 Helix 120 PWMs, and the compression fittings I need for 2x 580 HydroGens / HydroCoppers and the tubing and fluid for all of it...
> 
> xD
> 
> Oh, crap forgot about 2 compression fittings for my Titan xD


Which company's Titan did you order? I ask because Bryan revealed that EVGA will sell one and will be selling a Hydrocopper version as well, which uses a Swiftech Komodo made exclusively for EVGA.

I don't know if they will or not for the Titan, but in the past Frozen CPU has sold the Hydrocopper block separately. If rumors are true that only reference designs will be made for the Titan, and FCPU sells a Titan Hydrocopper block in the future, you should be able to put it on any OEM's Titan







.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Which company's Titan did you order? I ask because Bryan revealed that EVGA will sell one and will be selling a Hydrocopper version as well, which uses a Swiftech Komodo made exclusively for EVGA.
> 
> I don't know if they will or not for the Titan, but in the past Frozen CPU has sold the Hydrocopper block separately. If rumors are true that only reference designs will be made for the Titan, and FCPU sells a Titan Hydrocopper block in the future, you should be able to put it on any OEM's Titan
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Yea, That block might go on it, but right now I'm looking at the one from EK because I can have that by the 3/5.

Edit, I have the asus one. They are all the same. That was just the one I've been able to click so far before sold out.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> someone few pages was saying new customers get free shipping?
> 
> Any idea if Newegg is going to get it the same day?


You didn't notice the comment he made after that sentence. He was joking.


----------



## iceman0C

I'm planning to buy this to replace a H80 ..... I'm pretty new to custom water-cooling. I'll be buying the H220 + KOMODO-HD6900. Will the 6W pump be enough to power these two? What other components do I need/issues I need to keep in mind?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman0C*
> 
> I'm planning to buy this to replace a H80 ..... I'm pretty new to custom water-cooling. I'll be buying the H220 + KOMODO-HD6900. Will the 6W pump be enough to power these two? What other components do I need/issues I need to keep in mind?


The pump can easily power multiple rads and blocks, several demonstrations have shown it with like 2-3 rads and 3 blocks I believe. You need the extra tubing to run to the GPU block, barbs+clamps or compression fittings for the block. Also, you may want to consider adding another radiator if you have room. The single dual 120 radiator can probably handle a single gpu and cpu, but if you can get another radiator it will help your temps/noise level out a lot.


----------



## iceman0C

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> The pump can easily power multiple rads and blocks, several demonstrations have shown it with like 2-3 rads and 3 blocks I believe. You need the extra tubing to run to the GPU block, barbs+clamps or compression fittings for the block. Also, you may want to consider adding another radiator if you have room. The single dual 120 radiator can probably handle a single gpu and cpu, but if you can get another radiator it will help your temps/noise level out a lot.


Thanks sikkly, the H220 is my foray into custom watercooling and I think it should be an easy entry .... I'll keep in mind the extra rad, since I have space at the back of my case. As a rule, is there a way to calculate the wattage need for a pump. Say CPU + GPU block + 2x 240mm rads ?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman0C*
> 
> Thanks sikkly, the H220 is my foray into custom watercooling and I think it should be an easy entry .... I'll keep in mind the extra rad, since I have space at the back of my case. As a rule, is there a way to calculate the wattage need for a pump. Say CPU + GPU block + 2x 240mm rads ?


I'm not all that experienced myself, so I'm not sure on the wattage question. I'd imagine that it depends highly on the pump. Generally though people like a quiet system with water cooling, and if the pump goes over the rpm that this does at 6 watts they get a little noisy. Unless you are doing some pretty insane setups, like quad SLI and 4-5 rads, you probably aren't going to need much more than the h220 pump gives you.


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman0C*
> 
> Thanks sikkly, the H220 is my foray into custom watercooling and I think it should be an easy entry .... I'll keep in mind the extra rad, since I have space at the back of my case. As a rule, is there a way to calculate the wattage need for a pump. Say CPU + GPU block + 2x 240mm rads ?


While more watts mean more power in general, doesnt mean a more powerful pump. Pumps have many different attributes, and the wattage isnt a deciding factor in its flow rate.


----------



## iceman0C

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> While more watts mean more power in general, doesnt mean a more powerful pump. Pumps have many different attributes, and the wattage isnt a deciding factor in its flow rate.


Ok then I assume a flow rate is for affected by the complete loop rather than just the pump. How do I ever know if my pump is good enough? Because with the H220, the pump seems to be the only thing you cannot replace(I think) since it is attached to the cpu block.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman0C*
> 
> Ok then I assume a flow rate is for affected by the complete loop rather than just the pump. How do I ever know if my pump is good enough? Because with the H220, the pump seems to be the only thing you cannot replace(I think) since it is attached to the cpu block.


Here is a pretty decent site to learn from, Martin's whole website is a good place to learn about watercooling. http://martinsliquidlab.org/pump-planning-guide/

Browse the watercooling section of this site as well, there are tons of guides to kick start your knowledge.


----------



## CudaBoy71

They need to hurry up and release this. I want it and I want it now...


----------



## kevindd992002

If I add a GPU waterblock to the loop of this AIO cooler, how will it perform? Will it outperform the AIO cooler (Accelero Hybrid Cooler) that is installed in my GPU?


----------



## TechNickel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman0C*
> 
> Thanks sikkly, the H220 is my foray into custom watercooling and I think it should be an easy entry .... I'll keep in mind the extra rad, since I have space at the back of my case. As a rule, is there a way to calculate the wattage need for a pump. Say CPU + GPU block + 2x 240mm rads ?


You can actually calculate flow quite accurately if you have the right data for the involved components. You need a P/Q curve for the pump (or here the whole H220), and pressure drop values for added components. I'll talk to Gabe to see whether it's possible to release such data and maybe even create a small online flow calculator.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CudaBoy71*
> 
> They need to hurry up and release this. I want it and I want it now...


Rest assured that everyone involved is doing everything they can to get this to shops as quickly as possible. They just gotta wait for the ship to arrive, and it's hard to speed that one up







(you can't fly it in bulk because of the coolant in the loop). Order direct from Swiftech to get it as fast as possible.


----------



## MeanBruce

So why does the H320 tubing need to be longer? Sorry, I'm a water cooling noobapalooza, but in this photo below, doesn't the H320 just add another 120mm in radiator and a third fan?

Why should the distance between the pump and rad be any greater?

Also, congratulations to Mr. Gabe, well done M8!


----------



## Kelt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> So why does the H320 tubing need to be longer? Sorry, I'm a water cooling noobapalooza, but in this photo below, doesn't the H320 just add another 120mm in radiator and a third fan?
> 
> Why should the distance between the pump and rad be any greater?
> 
> Also, congratulations to Mr. Gabe, well done M8!


I'm guessing they have to allow for the Rad being fitted opposite to the way in that photo. Hence the longer length of tubing required.


----------



## Julsmba

Hi,
I already ordered mine here in Portugal, it will arrive on 26 of February.
125€ (164 dollars) here in Portugal.


----------



## iceman0C

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TechNickel*
> 
> You can actually calculate flow quite accurately if you have the right data for the involved components. You need a P/Q curve for the pump (or here the whole H220), and pressure drop values for added components. I'll talk to Gabe to see whether it's possible to release such data and maybe even create a small online flow calculator.
> Rest assured that everyone involved is doing everything they can to get this to shops as quickly as possible. They just gotta wait for the ship to arrive, and it's hard to speed that one up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (you can't fly it in bulk because of the coolant in the loop). Order direct from Swiftech to get it as fast as possible.


Online flow calculator is a good idea, esp. helps ease the learning curve.


----------



## Nilsom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Julsmba*
> 
> Hi,
> I already ordered mine here in Portugal, it will arrive on 26 of February.
> 125€ (164 dollars) here in Portugal.


hello

me too!!
in pcdiga ?

tuga hug


----------



## JackieTran

Damn, I was under the impression that this was gonna be £90 ($139.95); turns out its £119.99... Guess I'll wait for it to appear on eBay before I make any hasty decisions


----------



## mbreslin

Seems pretty awesome for an htpc, get the smallest possible case the rad will fit in, add a gpu block and you have a super powerful pc for htpc/gaming on your tv with almost 0 noise.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> Damn, I was under the impression that this was gonna be £90 ($139.95); turns out its £119.99... Guess I'll wait for it to appear on eBay before I make any hasty decisions


Not sure where you got £90 from. £119.99 is still a very good price for the H220. Waiting for ebay will be a while, and might not be any cheaper, I see it that it will be more as the demand for it will be high.


----------



## TechNickel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> Damn, I was under the impression that this was gonna be £90 ($139.95); turns out its £119.99... Guess I'll wait for it to appear on eBay before I make any hasty decisions


You've got ~20% VAT in Europe, so stuff is always a little more expensive here than US price with no sales tax. The price might come down a little, but don't expect it to drop to anywhere near £90.


----------



## gsk3rd

What kind of notice will we have when this is available? A day or will it be a mad rush?


----------



## TechNickel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gsk3rd*
> 
> What kind of notice will we have when this is available? A day or will it be a mad rush?


Check the retailers, they'll have it any day now in Europe, since Bacata, the distributor, has their shipment. Gabe said the US shipment is expected for March 3rd, so check the Swiftech.com shop then or on the 4th, retailers will get it a few days later of course.


----------



## spikexp

New not so great review from oc3d
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/swiftech_h220_aio_review/1


----------



## WALSRU

Wow harsh, what's the deal?


----------



## Daredevil 720

How much was the Swiftech's RPM there? They only show one result for the H220 on each chart...


----------



## navit

Got to love it when the first thing you see in the video is powered by corsair, hmmmm, sounds like it didn't stand a chance from the start.


----------



## yoi

its a review , calm down lol

maybe another website , they will praise it and give it a Gold seal or whatever the maximun award they give ...

... would that make you happy ? lol

take reviews like a grain of salt ... they are rating by Performance / Price / Presentation , 2 of those ratings i dont care lol , Price i dont care as long is it fits its purpouse , Presentation i dont care because i dont need instructions to bolt stuff and i dont care if the unit comes in a ziplock bag. And they didnt test the most important feature of the unit , the expandability


----------



## Avonosac

This review did kind of hint at a concern I had, that being since the PWM of the pump and fans are tied directly together, to get the required pump performance, but not "overpump" and create extra noise you would almost need to run the pump on 1 PWM header and the fans on another.

@Swiftech guys - I know this unit comes with the 8 port PWM splitter, is it possible to run the fans and pump on 2 different PWM headers? To state the question slightly different If 2000 RPM is sufficient for flow in my loop, but I want to turn the fans up slightly and independently, will I be able to?


----------



## MeanBruce

Tom's review is up, haven't watched it yet, I think he is a bit late since he just got the Corsair 900D delivered and he is taking a long time reviewing the new Corsair chassis.

Here is the H220:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPfLKkyIJOI&list=UU_SN80_V2GymyCWM2oTYTeg&index=1

Oops sorry, someone already posted, going to go watch it now. Looks like I might have to cut the tubing down on the H320, they may be way too long.


----------



## Roadkill95

Wait why would anyone take this guy seriously? he seems to praise everything made by corsair like it's godsend. Plus, Look at his piledriver 'review'. unprofessional rambling at best.


----------



## spikexp

I'm happy with the long tubing, I will be able to mount it at the bottom of my case.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spikexp*
> 
> I'm happy with the long tubing, I will be able to mount it at the bottom of my case.


Some of the negatives mentioned are definitely subjective in nature, the only real concern I have is the question above. I hope bram will be able to tackle that when he gets into work.. within the next couple hours probably.


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> This review did kind of hint at a concern I had, that being since the PWM of the pump and fans are tied directly together, to get the required pump performance, but not "overpump" and create extra noise you would almost need to run the pump on 1 PWM header and the fans on another.
> 
> @Swiftech guys - I know this unit comes with the 8 port PWM splitter, is it possible to run the fans and pump on 2 different PWM headers? To state the question slightly different If 2000 RPM is sufficient for flow in my loop, but I want to turn the fans up slightly and independently, will I be able to?


I'm fairly certain they have said this is possible. Regardless, it is what I plan on doing, it only makes sense to me to be able to control the two separately.

Also, that reviewer was a moron and just hooked everything to 12V molex and didn't even use PWM.


----------



## WALSRU

As excited as I was about the H220... even with it releasing next week I think I'm just going to get the "H2O-X20 Elite Series" kit because I really really prefer the looks of the Apogee drive. I'll be on CPU only for a while but I may expand someday.

Any thoughts on this people?


----------



## MeanBruce




----------



## TechNickel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> This review did kind of hint at a concern I had, that being since the PWM of the pump and fans are tied directly together, to get the required pump performance, but not "overpump" and create extra noise you would almost need to run the pump on 1 PWM header and the fans on another.
> 
> @Swiftech guys - I know this unit comes with the 8 port PWM splitter, is it possible to run the fans and pump on 2 different PWM headers? To state the question slightly different If 2000 RPM is sufficient for flow in my loop, but I want to turn the fans up slightly and independently, will I be able to?


I am not (yet) officially a Swiftech rep, but I have a H220 production sample here and it is definitely possible. Just connect the pump to a different PWM header than the PWM splitter and make a profile like you want it to be.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TechNickel*
> 
> I am not (yet) officially a Swiftech rep, but I have a H220 production sample here and it is definitely possible. Just connect the pump to a different PWM header than the PWM splitter and make a profile like you want it to be.


I guess what my question really was really asking was "is the pump pwm soldered to the pwm splitter, or can I simply unplug it and put it on a different header on my board."

I was fairly sure this was covered previously, but one horrible review and no caffeine in your blood can make things a little fuzzy.


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> I guess what my question really was really asking was "is the pump pwm soldered to the pwm splitter, or can I simply unplug it and put it on a different header on my board."
> 
> I was fairly sure this was covered previously, but one horrible review and no caffeine in your blood can make things a little fuzzy.


Not soldered. All the 4 pin "fan" cables are able to be plugged in wherever you want:


----------



## WALSRU

Let me restate one more time: If price is no object is there a significant advantage to the H20-220 kit? I really prefer the looks of the Apogee and don't mind filling the loop myself. This will be CPU loop only for now.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> Let me restate one more time: If price is no object is there a significant advantage to the H20-220 kit? I really prefer the looks of the Apogee and don't mind filling the loop myself. This will be CPU loop only for now.


Performance will be about the same (same block, same rad) you can run the pump a little faster (and louder) but that's pretty much it.


----------



## WALSRU

It's a shame I'd be paying an extra $100 just for clear tubing and a better looking block. I'll have to think about this...


----------



## spikexp

What about the top of the block (the kind of mesh), can that piece be taken out to replace it with another design?


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> It's a shame I'd be paying an extra $100 just for clear tubing and a better looking block. I'll have to think about this...


That is precisely why I did _not_ buy the AD2. It is a great product, but it is over - engineered for my usecase, but you buy products on their maximum potential, with the H220 I basically am buying AD2, but for the realistic power I need with price dropping accordingly.

I honestly almost purchased the AD2 in November when I was first exposed to it, having stayed away from hardware completely since my 955BE build, but the price was far too high compared to my needs in a small loop.


----------



## justanoldman

What exactly did the March 3rd date mean for the U.S.? Do we know what day it will be available to buy at a Micro Center, or will you be able to receive it faster by placing an order online somewhere?

As to the review: I have an H100i and there is no way I would run it at max ever, so I don't even look at those numbers. If you run that at max then you don't care about noise at all, and a custom loop or the H220 would probably be a waste for you. I am going to compare the H100i performance with a couple quiet fans, and the H220 with a couple quiet fans. If they are within a few degrees of each other then the H220 wins provided that adding another rad to cool a GPU does not raise CPU temps noticeably.


----------



## Yosarian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navit*
> 
> Got to love it when the first thing you see in the video is powered by corsair, hmmmm, sounds like it didn't stand a chance from the start.


Yeah, the sponsored by "Corsair" part made me


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> What exactly did the March 3rd date mean for the U.S.? Do we know what day it will be available to buy at a Micro Center, or will you be able to receive it faster by placing an order online somewhere?
> 
> As to the review: I have an H100i and there is no way I would run it at max ever, so I don't even look at those numbers. If you run that at max then you don't care about noise at all, and a custom loop or the H220 would probably be a waste for you. I am going to compare the H100i performance with a couple quiet fans, and the H220 with a couple quiet fans. If they are within a few degrees of each other then the H220 wins provided that adding another rad to cool a GPU does not raise CPU temps noticeably.


That is when they get their shipment from wherever it was made in asia (likely).

On that day I'm going to go online and order 2 + all my fittings and tubing and fluids for 2 loops including a GPU









You're best bet to get it the fastest will be their website 3/4. A few days after that, it will reach distribution in stores, and then it is up to individual retailers to determine when / where / if it will be available in-store.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> This review did kind of hint at a concern I had, that being since the PWM of the pump and fans are tied directly together, to get the required pump performance, but not "overpump" and create extra noise you would almost need to run the pump on 1 PWM header and the fans on another.
> 
> @Swiftech guys - I know this unit comes with the 8 port PWM splitter, is it possible to run the fans and pump on 2 different PWM headers? To state the question slightly different If 2000 RPM is sufficient for flow in my loop, but I want to turn the fans up slightly and independently, will I be able to?


I believe that in order to control them independently you'll need to have them on different headers. What I mean by this is that one way of setting it up would be to use the PWM splitter for the pump and then have the fans on a different motherboard header. Of course this will depend on what kind of individual controls your motherboard even allows.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I believe that in order to control them independently you'll need to have them on different headers. What I mean by this is that you'll need to use the PWM splitter for the pump and then have the fans on a different motherboard header. Of course this will depend on what kind of individual controls your motherboard even allows.


I was thinking more pump on CPU header on my Z77E-ITX, and the PWM splitter with all the fans on case fan PWM header. As long as the pump doesn't need to be on the splitter at least.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> I was thinking more pump on CPU header on my Z77E-ITX, and the PWM splitter with all the fans on case fan PWM header. As long as the pump doesn't need to be on the splitter at least.


You can do that as well. I was just giving you an example so that you could see that none of the connections are permanent and can be moved to other headers.


----------



## Neo Zuko

And let's not forget about the occasional pump noise and failure reports on the Corsair Hydro series. My H80 and H100i were ok, but not everyone's is... I'd rather have a little over engineered Swiftech tech to back me up.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> You can do that as well. I was just giving you an example so that you could see that *none of the connections are permanent* and can be moved to other headers.


Exactly what I needed to hear. Crisis averted.

The order for 2 H220 on 3/4 has been reinstated









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> And let's not forget about the occasional pump noise and failure reports on the Corsair Hydro series. My H80 and H100i were ok, but not everyone's is... I'd rather have a little over engineered Swiftech tech to back me up.


Point of fact: The pump on the AD2 is not swiftech, and they made their own pump for the H220 because it was overpowered, and therefor driving the price up. I'm sure some users will take advantage of the AD2 fully, since its an excellent product. This does however prevent others from purchasing it because the pump was so expensive, it pushed the system out of peoples price ranges.


----------



## sikkly

Tom's end of the review confused me. He didn't seem to use mobo control at all, because of a pre-concieved notion that swiftech would make a product that doesn't work how they intended it to work. He seems to think that running the pump directly of molex so it gets full 12v of power(which is why the PWM splitter uses molex power, not mobo power), and not to turn it down because the temps will go up(which is true, but to an extremely small degree, 30% to 100% makes like .7 degree difference). He also mentions that there aren't any fan speed reducer...but they are PWM fans with a PWM splitter. Did he not read the instructions, or fully look at his packaging? Why ignore the 10 dollar splitter that comes with the unit?

Several other reviews that I've read have absolutely loved the splitter that comes with it, and seemingly have had no issue using it. They've also said that the fans always seem louder than the pump when at equal settings with a mobo control, where Tom is saying the pump is louder than the fans. I wonder if he mounted improperly somehow and is getting extra vibrations, or if his unit isn't running optimally, because thats pretty contradictory to other things he has had. Maybe simply not using the PWM control had that effect...

His temps seem within margin of error, so I won't knock the actual results off, just his complaints at the end doing seem justified. I like some of Tom's reviews, even some none corsair ones, but this one doesn't seem well done to me.

MeanBruce: You do realize that the lower Delta of a loop will actually warm your room up more, right? That heat isn't being destroyed(it can't be, obviously), it is being moved by the radiator...into your room. Unless you have your rad running outside of the room your using it in, that heat is always being dumped into your room, and it being lower means it is actually dumping more heat into the surrounding air, warming the room up.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Tom's end of the review confused me. He didn't seem to use mobo control at all, because of a pre-concieved notion that swiftech would make a product that doesn't work how they intended it to work. He seems to think that running the pump directly of molex so it gets full 12v of power(which is why the PWM splitter uses molex power, not mobo power), and not to turn it down because the temps will go up(which is true, but to an extremely small degree, 30% to 100% makes like .7 degree difference). He also mentions that there aren't any fan speed reducer...but they are PWM fans with a PWM splitter. Did he not read the instructions, or fully look at his packaging? Why ignore the 10 dollar splitter that comes with the unit?
> 
> Several other reviews that I've read have absolutely loved the splitter that comes with it, and seemingly have had no issue using it. They've also said that the fans always seem louder than the pump when at equal settings with a mobo control, where Tom is saying the pump is louder than the fans. I wonder if he mounted improperly somehow and is getting extra vibrations, or if his unit isn't running optimally, because thats pretty contradictory to other things he has had. Maybe simply not using the PWM control had that effect...
> 
> His temps seem within margin of error, so I won't knock the actual results off, just his complaints at the end doing seem justified. I like some of Tom's reviews, even some none corsair ones, but this one doesn't seem well done to me.


You kinda answered your own questions, he obviously did not set the product up the way it should be set up. He ran the pump at full bore and the fans at full bore, and didn't even realize why it was loud. 0 credibility as far as any conclusions go, the actual temps from his review are the only somewhat usable information.


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Tom's end of the review confused me.


I'm baffled as well. It's like a car reviewer putting 22" rims on a Z4 and complaining that the ride quality and handling is terrible.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spikexp*
> 
> What about the top of the block (the kind of mesh), can that piece be taken out to replace it with another design?


yes we could - but we do not sell the APD2 HS separately - not sure we will.


----------



## spikexp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *spikexp*
> 
> What about the top of the block (the kind of mesh), can that piece be taken out to replace it with another design?
> 
> 
> 
> yes we could - but we do not sell the APD2 HS separately - not sure we will.
Click to expand...

So it's an heatspreader? Ok, I thought it might just be a piece for design that could be change with an homemade piece.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Tom's end of the review confused me. He didn't seem to use mobo control at all, because of a pre-concieved notion that swiftech would make a product that doesn't work how they intended it to work. He seems to think that running the pump directly of molex so it gets full 12v of power(which is why the PWM splitter uses molex power, not mobo power), and not to turn it down because the temps will go up(which is true, but to an extremely small degree, 30% to 100% makes like .7 degree difference). He also mentions that there aren't any fan speed reducer...but they are PWM fans with a PWM splitter. Did he not read the instructions, or fully look at his packaging? Why ignore the 10 dollar splitter that comes with the unit?
> 
> Several other reviews that I've read have absolutely loved the splitter that comes with it, and seemingly have had no issue using it. They've also said that the fans always seem louder than the pump when at equal settings with a mobo control, where Tom is saying the pump is louder than the fans. I wonder if he mounted improperly somehow and is getting extra vibrations, or if his unit isn't running optimally, because thats pretty contradictory to other things he has had. Maybe simply not using the PWM control had that effect...
> 
> His temps seem within margin of error, so I won't knock the actual results off, just his complaints at the end doing seem justified. I like some of Tom's reviews, even some none corsair ones, but this one doesn't seem well done to me.
> 
> MeanBruce: You do realize that the lower Delta of a loop will actually warm your room up more, right? That heat isn't being destroyed(it can't be, obviously), it is being moved by the radiator...into your room. Unless you have your rad running outside of the room your using it in, that heat is always being dumped into your room, and it being lower means it is actually dumping more heat into the surrounding air, warming the room up.


Here's another thing to consider, those 2011 socket extreme processors do run significantly hotter than most other current processors. Due to this and their size they don't require an efficient water block to cool them and therefore a Sandy Bridge 1155 socket will actually benefit more from the H220. The bow that we put on the cold plate also tends to work better with 1155 socket processors than 2011. Just something to keep in mind. It would have been nice if Tom had tested this on other processors, but I do understand the time constraint that he's under since I was a former reviewer myself.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spikexp*
> 
> So it's an heatspreader? Ok, I thought it might just be a piece for design that could be change with an homemade piece.


On the APD 2 it's a heatspreader, but on the H220 it's just a design and has no actual function. You would be able to remove the top plastic piece and replace it if you so choose.


----------



## WALSRU

GG gentleman. Just realized there's a green insert for the Apogee in the X20 elite kit. Just for the pure looks of my build ended up bailing and getting the more expensive kit.

Either way Swiftech wins, I've really loved being a part of this thread and conversing with their reps!


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Here's another thing to consider, those 2011 socket extreme processors do run significantly hotter than most other current processors. Due to this and their size they don't require an efficient water block to cool them and therefore a Sandy Bridge 1155 socket will actually benefit more from the H220. The bow that we put on the cold plate also tends to work better with 1155 socket processors than 2011. Just something to keep in mind. It would have been nice if Tom had tested this on other processors, but I do understand the time constraint that he's under since I was a former reviewer myself.


So in other words:

Old 2500k + Swiftech H220 AIO = Success?

Thanks -


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Here's another thing to consider, those 2011 socket extreme processors do run significantly hotter than most other current processors. Due to this and their size they don't require an efficient water block to cool them and therefore a Sandy Bridge 1155 socket will actually benefit more from the H220. The bow that we put on the cold plate also tends to work better with 1155 socket processors than 2011. Just something to keep in mind. It would have been nice if Tom had tested this on other processors, but I do understand the time constraint that he's under since I was a former reviewer myself.


Well, Martin(I seem to mention his review a lot in this thread







) reviewed it on a 2011 socket as well, and his noise results were just fine. Granted, you do raise a good point about the block, but I don't think you can justify Tom's conclusions based on using a 2011 processor.

Like I said, I like a lot of Tom's reviews. His Arc Midi R2 review actually was enough for me to decide on buying it over the switch, but this one just seems poorly done. Guess I shouldn't get hung up on bad reviews, but its annoying to see a review for any product not do it justice. Companies put a lot of hard work into the details, and ignoring them in a review hurts the company when it should help it. Just annoys me, I guess you guys learn to get over it quickly though.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> GG gentleman. Just realized there's a green insert for the Apogee in the X20 elite kit. Just for the pure looks of my build ended up bailing and getting the more expensive kit.
> 
> Either way Swiftech wins, I've really loved being a part of this thread and conversing with their reps!


The Apogee Drive II comes with a blue, red and a green insert so that the LED will match the color of your system.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Well, Martin(I seem to mention his review a lot in this thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) reviewed it on a 2011 socket as well, and his noise results were just fine. Granted, you do raise a good point about the block, but I don't think you can justify Tom's conclusions based on using a 2011 processor.
> 
> Like I said, I like a lot of Tom's reviews. His Arc Midi R2 review actually was enough for me to decide on buying it over the switch, but this one just seems poorly done. Guess I shouldn't get hung up on bad reviews, but its annoying to see a review for any product not do it justice. Companies put a lot of hard work into the details, and ignoring them in a review hurts the company when it should help it. Just annoys me, I guess you guys learn to get over it quickly though.


You've got to have pretty thick skin to work in this business. That goes for being a reviewer as well though.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> You've got to have pretty thick skin to work in this business. That goes for being a reviewer as well though.


Yea, I don't think Tom is going to be crying over us saying bad things about his review. I don't follow him personally, but everyone screws up sometimes. I don't think anyone here would disagree that this is one for him.


----------



## WALSRU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> The Apogee Drive II comes with a blue, red and a green insert so that the LED will match the color of your system.


Green Apogee LED, green coolant, green ram (Crucial tactical tracer), and the green LEDs on the side of the Titan ought to match nicely.









/offtopic


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> Green Apogee LED, green coolant, green ram (Crucial tactical tracer), and the green LEDs on the side of the Titan ought to match nicely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> /offtopic


You better provide pictures when you're done, that sounds like it'll turn out awesome!


----------



## WALSRU

The whole install is basically waiting on my acrylic case to get built. It's been a long time coming, I've never been a patient man!









Almost final draft of the case (itx):


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> The whole install is basically waiting on my acrylic case to get built. It's been a long time coming, I've never been a patient man!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Almost final draft of the case (itx):
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


I hear ya. I'll be using this in my Mini-Phantom I'm building.

A teaser:


----------



## WALSRU

I have a Red/White Phantom in my corner that's in pieces too. Also I've been subscribed to that build a looooong time.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Julsmba*
> 
> Hi,
> I already ordered mine here in Portugal, it will arrive on 26 of February.
> 125€ (164 dollars) here in Portugal.


That's with the 23% Portugal VAT, right ?

(MSRP $139.95 x conversion rate 0.76 x VTA 23% = ~ 130€ ) if including VAT, it's pretty good price then.


----------



## guinner16

For you red and white theme builders. I was looking at red tubing and it looks like Primochill's is the deepest red with the least orange. I was thinking about buying the h220 swapping red tubing. Any other recommendations for a dark red tubing. I will not be using any crazy lighting that will make the tubing easier to go red-orange on me. Thank you.

Edit: Or keep it simple with the black and try to do a red coil over it.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> I have a Red/White Phantom in my corner that's in pieces too. Also I've been subscribed to that build a looooong time.


Yeah it's been going slower than I'd like, but to be fair with myself, there a lot of RL stuff going on that's been slowing things down. Long work days, Colorado trips, planning a move down there, etc.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Well, Martin(I seem to mention his review a lot in this thread
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) reviewed it on a 2011 socket as well, and his noise results were just fine. Granted, you do raise a good point about the block, but I don't think you can justify Tom's conclusions based on using a 2011 processor.
> 
> Like I said, I like a lot of Tom's reviews. His Arc Midi R2 review actually was enough for me to decide on buying it over the switch, but this one just seems poorly done. Guess I shouldn't get hung up on bad reviews, but its annoying to see a review for any product not do it justice. Companies put a lot of hard work into the details, and ignoring them in a review hurts the company when it should help it. Just annoys me, I guess you guys learn to get over it quickly though.


Really not much to get over with








The review does lack a few details on the testing that was done: how the radiator and fans were installed in each of these units? A single 120, dual 120, dual 140 are being compared but were the radiators installed always in the same way? What about the fans? were they pushing?pulling? intake/exhaust? all of this has the power of changing the numbers quite a bit.
then there is the question of the thermal compound? did he change the compound of the H100i (for example), he's had it for a while and I didn't read the original review. If he had tested it before and he's testing again in this round up, then he probably switched thermal compounds - and unless he knows exactly what corsair is pre-applying then he may have just replaced it by something just slightly better (that's not too difficult to be honest with you).

Things change from a CPU to another. All I know is that I've tested both these units in a controller environment and on a similar CPU (a 3930K), at stock fans speed and at equal fans speeds. The H100i and H220 had the same air-CPU delta at stock fan speed (2,700 RPM for the corsair, 1,800 RPM for the H220) - no comment on the noise level, you guys all know the acoustical output of a 2700 RPM compared to that of a 1800RPM. At equal fan speed of 1,800RPM the H110i was outperformed by the H220 by a few degrees (pretty similar noise level).


----------



## Julsmba

yes with 23% VAT...Tomorrow i have it







...


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Julsmba*
> 
> yes with 23% VAT...Tomorrow i have it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Grrrrrrrr...


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Julsmba*
> 
> yes with 23% VAT...Tomorrow i have it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Color me jealous!


----------



## HyperMatrix

Just placed a pre-order for an H220. I'm also about to pick up 4 PWM controlled 110cfm fans to set up a push/pull config. Other than the whole "sound" thing, does anything think this is a bad idea in that it will not be overly helpful with performance/cooling gains? I have an i7 3770k stuck at 4935MHz on a push/pull H100 right now, and I'll hit as high as 81c on Prime. I was hoping with the H220 and push/pull 110CFM fans I'll be able to get my extra 65MHz and hopefully stay at 75c or lower in prime.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HyperMatrix*
> 
> Just placed a pre-order for an H220. I'm also about to pick up 4 PWM controlled 110cfm fans to set up a push/pull config. Other than the whole "sound" thing, does anything think this is a bad idea in that it will not be overly helpful with performance/cooling gains? I have an i7 3770k stuck at 4935MHz on a push/pull H100 right now, and I'll hit as high as 81c on Prime. I was hoping with the H220 and push/pull 110CFM fans I'll be able to get my extra 65MHz and hopefully stay at 75c or lower in prime.


That really depends on what you're planning to set your fan speeds at. Another consideration is what kind of static pressure do these fans provide. The CFM rating is great for air cooling, but static pressure is what you really need to be looking at.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> This review did kind of hint at a concern I had, that being since the PWM of the pump and fans are tied directly together, to get the required pump performance, but not "overpump" and create extra noise you would almost need to run the pump on 1 PWM header and the fans on another.
> 
> @Swiftech guys - I know this unit comes with the 8 port PWM splitter, is it possible to run the fans and pump on 2 different PWM headers? To state the question slightly different If 2000 RPM is sufficient for flow in my loop, but I want to turn the fans up slightly and independently, will I be able to?


Absolutely


----------



## HyperMatrix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> That really depends on what you're planning to set your fan speeds at. Another consideration is what kind of static pressure do these fans provide. The CFM rating is great for air cooling, but static pressure is what you really need to be looking at.


Well I'm looking at one of two fans right now then:

Scythe Slip Stream 120: http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/acc/116/sy1225sl12hpvcv_detail.html#specifications

Or,

Corsair Air Series SP120 high performance edition: http://www.corsair.com/en/cpu-cooling-kits/air-series-fans/air-series-sp120-high-performance-edition-high-static-pressure-120mm-fan.html

The scythe has lower static pressure, but higher cfm. The corsair, of course, has lower cfm but a bit higher static pressure. Which would you recommend? I'd probably end up running the fans at near 100%. These are the best ones at my local computer store (based on my limited knowledge) I could always order online if you know of some very high performance fans that would match well with the h220 for super performance push/pull config.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> That is when they get their shipment from wherever it was made in asia (likely).


Yes, we manaufacture these in our own factory (100% swiftech subsidiary) in Shenzhen China.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Absolutely


Gabe, I just wanted to take a second and mention that you rock!


----------



## Thrasher1016

Referring to the earlier post about the small cover on the pump / block unit:

The interchangeable part that changes the color, are those included, or separate purchases?

Thanks -


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrasher1016*
> 
> Referring to the earlier post about the small cover on the pump / block unit:
> 
> The interchangeable part that changes the color, are those included, or separate purchases?
> 
> Thanks -


Those are for the Apogee Drive II, not the H220.


----------



## Avonosac

Thread is getting some big-wig love









This product has made me a _bit_ of a Swiftech fanboi, as much as it pains me to admit.


----------



## SDBolts619

No fair. Europe is getting them already and we're stuck waiting here in the States? I'm only about an hour and a half from the HQ, can I come pick mine up?


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Those are for the Apogee Drive II, not the H220.


Oh.

I'm dumb.









Thanks! -


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HyperMatrix*
> 
> Well I'm looking at one of two fans right now then:
> 
> Scythe Slip Stream 120: http://www.scythe-usa.com/product/acc/116/sy1225sl12hpvcv_detail.html#specifications
> 
> Or,
> 
> Corsair Air Series SP120 high performance edition: http://www.corsair.com/en/cpu-cooling-kits/air-series-fans/air-series-sp120-high-performance-edition-high-static-pressure-120mm-fan.html
> 
> The scythe has lower static pressure, but higher cfm. The corsair, of course, has lower cfm but a bit higher static pressure. Which would you recommend? I'd probably end up running the fans at near 100%. These are the best ones at my local computer store (based on my limited knowledge) I could always order online if you know of some very high performance fans that would match well with the h220 for super performance push/pull config.


You have to understand that we manufactured and engineered the radiator and the fans in such a way that they would compliment each other. Both are engineered for quiet performance and therefore I really do believe that you'll get the most out of your radiator by pairing it with our own Helix fans. If you don't agree with me just have a look at some of the reviews that have been done on our fans. Martin, for example, has a very good review of them and compares them to other fans in the same category. Some of these are also priced much higher than our Helix fans.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Gabe, I just wanted to take a second and mention that you rock!


Thanks.. just trying to do my job


----------



## Aestylis

Just pre-ordered mine. Can't wait!.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tinytomlogan on OC3D*
> Ill always stand by my testing though, its far more open and thorough than all the other sites.


WOW. Some special breed of arrogance there.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> WOW. Some special breed of arrogance there.


I've been a fan of Tom's for some time now and I guess I've just gotten used to his arrogance. To be honest though in order to do the number of reviews that he does, and the length and depth that he gives them you kind of have to have some level of arrogance. The reason why I say this is because reviewers take a lot of flack and you either develop some really thick skin or some kind of arrogance. Tom uses it to his advantage because it's become a part of his reviewing style. Anyone remember the NZXT Classic H2? He tore that case apart and I'm kind of surprised that NZXT even decided to deal with him again after that. Anyway, I'm just saying that at the end of the day you have to take these reviews with a grain of salt. Like you said, if you have 10 reviews and 9 of them say one thing and one says something else, which ones are you going to believe?


----------



## sikkly

So, is the tubing and other new products that you guys going to be selling coming with the same shipment/date as the h220, or do you guys have a separate day that you maybe can tell us when it'll be arriving? I might be adding another rad day 1 if my budget allows, and would like to use the same tubing that comes with the h220.


----------



## dartuil

150€ for us im in swiftech!


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> So, is the tubing and other new products that you guys going to be selling coming with the same shipment/date as the h220, or do you guys have a separate day that you maybe can tell us when it'll be arriving? I might be adding another rad day 1 if my budget allows, and would like to use the same tubing that comes with the h220.


The tubing should be available next week some time, so basically at about the same time the H220 ships.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> The tubing should be available next week some time, so basically at about the same time the H220 ships.


Excellent, thanks for the info. Thanks for the excellent CS in this thread!


----------



## usoldier

Iam kinda worried about the durability of the orings on swivel connectors under constant high temperatures, typical air temp here on summer 30cº/35cº.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *usoldier*
> 
> Iam kinda worried about the durability of the orings on swivel connectors under constant high temperatures, typical air temp here on summer 30cº/35cº.


We've tested for this and found that the o-rings hold up quite well even when the water temperature gets pretty high. You have to keep in mind that your ambient temps are no more than 10 to 15 degrees hotter than some others and this isn't going to be enough of an increase to harm the o-rings. As an example, we tested this unit with the pump off and this resulted in some very high temperatures due to CPU temperatures and the o-rings never failed.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *usoldier*
> 
> Iam kinda worried about the durability of the orings on swivel connectors under constant high temperatures, typical air temp here on summer 30cº/35cº.


You have orings on your car that operate under temps higher than that, and they are probably made of the exact material. Even under fairly dry hot conditions they should hold up fairly well.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *usoldier*
> 
> Iam kinda worried about the durability of the orings on swivel connectors under constant high temperatures, typical air temp here on summer 30cº/35cº.


Double post T.T


----------



## usoldier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> We've tested for this and found that the o-rings hold up quite well even when the water temperature gets pretty high. You have to keep in mind that your ambient temps are no more than 10 to 15 degrees hotter than some others and this isn't going to be enough of an increase to harm the o-rings. As an example, we tested this unit with the pump off and this resulted in some very high temperatures due to CPU temperatures and the o-rings never failed.


Thanks for clearing this out for me, getting mine tomorow then thanks.


----------



## twitchyzero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Thanks.. just trying to do my job


Gabe/Stephen/Bram or other helpful Swiftech reps
would one be able to order off Newegg.com on Mar 4th? I'm trying to time the shipping right so I can pick it up State side.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> Gabe/Stephen/Bram or other helpful Swiftech reps
> would one be able to order off Newegg.com on Mar 4th? I'm trying to time the shipping right so I can pick it up State side.


We don't have any confirmed date yet on when Newegg will have the H220 available.


----------



## oicwutudidthar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPfLKkyIJOI&list=UU_SN80_V2GymyCWM2oTYTeg&index=1

Nothin' to see here folks, move along...


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicwutudidthar*
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPfLKkyIJOI&list=UU_SN80_V2GymyCWM2oTYTeg&index=1
> 
> Nothin' to see here folks, move along...


I agree.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *usoldier*
> 
> Iam kinda worried about the durability of the orings on swivel connectors under constant high temperatures, typical air temp here on summer 30cº/35cº.


they can't be hotter than the o-ring on the base plate


----------



## usoldier

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> they can't be hotter than the o-ring on the base plate


But the base plate doesnt swivel arround, i know this cause ive had problems with EK connectors that swivel after 2 years 4 of them developed leaks on the swivel orings no problem with GTZ waterblocks orings.


----------



## oicwutudidthar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I agree.


Not sure why you sent TTL a unit when it is rather obvious that corsair has their genitals up his bum.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicwutudidthar*
> 
> Not sure why you sent TTL a unit when it is rather obvious that corsair has their genitals up his bum.


I'm guessing just to prod at his transparency.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicwutudidthar*
> 
> Not sure why you sent TTL a unit when it is rather obvious that corsair has their genitals up his bum.


Believe it or not it was actually my suggestion that they send him one. I didn't know at the time that one was already sent to him for review. I was kind of hoping that we would get an unbiased review from him because I've been a fan of his for a while now. Live and learn.


----------



## dartuil

he included noctua d14 at 12V i would prefer it at auto.
he show that the noctua can compet the H220 , im waiting for more reviews with high end air coolers.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

He even said your radiators are bad and not to buy them. If that is not bias review, what is?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> He even said your radiators are bad and not to buy them. If that is not bias review, what is?


Yeah, that caught me off guard too. I'm kind of surprised that he even gave it a Silver after he bashed it the way he did?


----------



## Roadkill95

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> He even said your radiators are bad and not to buy them. If that is not bias review, what is?


send his the same thing with a corsair logo and he'll say its the best in the world.


----------



## oicwutudidthar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> send his the same thing with a corsair logo and he'll say its the best in the world.


Funny thing is, he actually use to hate all Corsair products like he had some vendetta against them. If you watch his older vids from a couple years ago you will see what I mean. Then Corsair got in his good books and became his primary sponsor and boy, did that all change...







(I am not trying to say Corsair has bad products, far from it actually, just pointing out the facts.)


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicwutudidthar*
> 
> Funny thing is, he actually use to hate all Corsair products like he had some vendetta against them. If you watch his older vids from a couple years ago you will see what I mean. Then Corsair got in his good books and became his primary sponsor and boy, did that all change...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (I am not trying to say Corsair has bad products, far from it actually, just pointing out the facts.)


That's a good point. If I remember correctly he hated 800D case when it came out and he got a lot flack for his review of it. We'll just have to wait and see what actual users have to say about it once they've had a chance to use it for themselves. I've had one set up on my work PC here and the fan on the PSU is louder than the H220 is. It also does an excellent job of keeping the 3770K pretty cool even at dead-silent fan and pump speeds. That's my experience, and I have a feeling that will be the experience that a vast majority of users will have with it. If you look on other forums people are having all kinds of problems with H100i's software and firmware. I'm not saying the H100i is a bad cooler, but this performs just as well and is quieter with less headaches. Just my opinion, but I do work for Swiftech.


----------



## socketus

Just watched/lissened to this crap - TTL - "I think the hoses are too long" - thats what I get from this verbal diarrhea.

At the 14.22 mark, "lets talk about some of the good points of this" and begins praising the fans' performance !?!

And he doesn't test the unit using PWM. Yah, credibility goes out the window









It doesn't get the gold award because of the price, if the price were 100 pounds, then it would go gold.
So it gets silver because "its scores are good" - huh ???


----------



## ez12a

well TTL did give the h100i a gold rating which then had LEDs break on me in 2 weeks. I'll try the h220 for myself.









I have an idea of where the h100i performed in terms of temperatures. So i will have an unofficial/unscientific comparison. As long as the H220 doesnt exceed 75C in my configuration it's as good if not better than the H100i.


----------



## Greenback

the reviews you have linked on the first page are misleading as 2 that compare the h220 and the h100i, 1 the h220 is done by 1 person and the h100i on a different system by another person and the other is done by the same person but with a different system case, cpu, motherboard which will give misleading results and the last 1 is the h100


----------



## savagepagan

Martinsliquidlab.org review of the H220

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/01/27/swiftech-h220-prefilled-2x120mm-water-cooling-kit/


----------



## Roadkill95

I'm curious as to why long tubes are bad. is it because you have the ability to mount your rad anywhere you want?

I think its because it's something that the corsair units don't offer. I'm actually angry at this guy because now all the YouTube monkeys are gonna buy h80s over this.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> the reviews you have linked on the first page are misleading as 2 that compare the h220 and the h100i, 1 the h220 is done by 1 person and the h100i on a different system by another person and the other is done by the same person but with a different system case, cpu, motherboard which will give misleading results and the last 1 is the h100


The thread is about the different reviews given to the H220 from different reviewers. It just shows it's performance versus different AIO / CLC setups. The aim was just to have one place where all the reviews for the H220 could be found so it was easier for people to reference versus going all over the place for it.

If you actually read through the thread (the first 20-30) you'll see a lot of the posters mentioning that some of the reviews were not ideally done. The best review you can probably look at is either the swiftech presentation at CES (though some people will say it's done by swiftech so there is bias) or head over to martinsliquidlab.org and look for his living review of the unit. It is a very in depth look at the H220 and he compares it real water coolers, which gives you a better idea of it's real performance.


----------



## WALSRU

Reading now... I have to say if I'd gone H220 I'd pull the honeycomb and rock it liked this!


----------



## oicwutudidthar

I wish Martin compared it to the h100i, too bad.


----------



## guinner16

I'm a little confused why the H100i and the H220 would even be compared. The h100i is a closed system with no ability to expand or custimize. The h220 is a prebuilt system that can be expanded into a full loop. Also, I'd rather have longer tubes that I can change out than shorter tubes that I can't do much with. In fact when I get the h220 the black tubes will be off and replaced with red tubes in the first minute. IMO the h100i is for those who want to say they have a water cooled system, but not really. The h220 is for the who want a full custom loop, and they are using this profuct as a stepping stone. Also, the h220 is great for those who would like to go to a full custom loop but just cant afford it. To pay an extra $20 and have the option to expand is a way better value than corsair can offer. Even if both perform and look equal, I will gladly pay $20 for the option to expand. Lastly, never trust a person who calls themselves Tiny Tim Logan.


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> Reading now... I have to say if I'd gone H220 I'd pull the honeycomb and rock it liked this!


Is that gray? I wonder if it could be spray lightly with a matte black. That would be nice.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> Is that gray? I wonder if it could be spray lightly with a matte black. That would be nice.


I believe it's black Acetal and the "grey" that you're seeing is just some reflected light.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> Is that gray? I wonder if it could be spray lightly with a matte black. That would be nice.


Of course it could be. You also could make a custom acrylic top piece and do all sorts of crazy stuff with it.


----------



## colforbin

Is there an official release date on H220?


----------



## twitchyzero

^ apparently ST is getting their shipment Mar 4th...so it's a safe bet US residents will get them end of this week/early next week. Apparently European market has already shipped them out to customers?


----------



## circeseye

all i know is after reading through this thread and reading all the reviews the h220 is going into me and my sons new builds next month.


----------



## Roadkill95

I'm gonna remove the honeycomb and cover the pump with white cf vinyl and cut out the swiftech logo. Would look great with white tubing imo

edit : I meant pump







forgot the pump was on the block lol


----------



## Faithh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> I'm a little confused why the H100i and the H220 would even be compared. The h100i is a closed system with no ability to expand or custimize. The h220 is a prebuilt system that can be expanded into a full loop. Also, I'd rather have longer tubes that I can change out than shorter tubes that I can't do much with. In fact when I get the h220 the black tubes will be off and replaced with red tubes in the first minute. IMO the h100i is for those who want to say they have a water cooled system, but not really. The h220 is for the who want a full custom loop, and they are using this profuct as a stepping stone. Also, the h220 is great for those who would like to go to a full custom loop but just cant afford it. To pay an extra $20 and have the option to expand is a way better value than corsair can offer. Even if both perform and look equal, I will gladly pay $20 for the option to expand. Lastly, never trust a person who calls themselves Tiny Tim Logan.


Just been watching TTL's vid and I'm kinda confused if he is an idiot or not.. Last time with his Asus ares 2 review he was saying this: "CPU/GPU score is benches highest when it's complety new but over some time it's lower because the silicum inside the chip degrades". More enough to conclude.. Talking annoying crap about the length of hoses, I'm not really interested in his opinion about it.

I don't get it why you just wouldn't' just use 2 the same fans on each AIO? I mean the SP120L's are noisier, higher rpm and have higher static pressure. This just doesn't make sense. Which is making sense is that he is just playing toys and that's all about it.

The only negative opinion from my side is just I don't like the pumpcover but I love it that you can take it out and hopefully there would be an option to have plexi on it. I hope Swiftech would make different covers or stuff with leds lights.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faithh*
> 
> The only negative opinion from my side is just I don't like the pumpcover but I love it that you can take it out and hopefully there would be an option to have plexi on it. I hope Swiftech would make different covers or stuff with leds lights.


If you've been paying any attention at all to this site then you'd realize that there will most likely be some enterprising modders that come up with some custom tops for the pump. I'm not saying that we won't come up with any on our own, but I wouldn't think that it would really be necessary since there are so many really good modders on this site that are likely to come up with some great ideas. This is actually one of the main reasons I joined this site back in 2011.


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I believe it's black Acetal and the "grey" that you're seeing is just some reflected light.


That is perfect. It will match nicely with my matte black case and red/black theme built. This is a noob question, but you may get alot of first timer type questions with this product. I have never watercooled so it would be nice to have a quick YT video on how to change out the tubes. Maybe how to drain it, take the tubes off, properly mount the new tubes, and refill it. Like i said a noob questions, but there are alot of people buying this poduct who have never watercooled before. If not done by swiftech maybe somebody can do it from the community.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> That is perfect. It will match nicely with my matte black case and red/black theme built. This is a noob question, but you may get alot of first timer type questions with this product. I have never watercooled so it would be nice to have a quick YT video on how to change out the tubes. Maybe how to drain it, take the tubes off, properly mount the new tubes, and refill it. Like i said a noob questions, but there are alot of people buying this poduct who have never watercooled before. If not done by swiftech maybe somebody can do it from the community.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1185785/installing-tubing-for-water-cooling/0_20#post_15964553

http://www.overclock.net/t/1185787/how-to-fill-a-water-cooling-loop/0_20#post_15964592

http://www.overclock.net/t/1185791/how-to-bleed-a-water-cooling-loop/0_20

All taken from the main thread in the water cooling portion of the web site:

http://www.overclock.net/t/226970/updated-water-cooling-essential-threads

If you look around you'll find even more information, just about anything you need has an answer. Search around youtube and other review sites and you'll what will feel like a limitless supply of guides.


----------



## CTM Audi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ckD1W_XvHyY#t=406s

Does the pump always make the bubbly noises, or will that go away in time? That much noise would drive me crazy, and the pump noise is the only thing worrying me about this kit.


----------



## Martinm210

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *oicwutudidthar*
> 
> I wish Martin compared it to the h100i, too bad.


I want to test one too. Anyone with an H100i they want to loan me for testing?









I haven't found a sponsor yet.

And no the bare pump bottom is black, I just had too much lighting in that photo.

Regarding long tubes, I'd actually like it if they were longer. The bottom rad mount on my Switch 810 may not work if the tubes were any shorter. And it's not like you can't cut the tubing if you wanted them shorter. It is after all easy to mod shorter tubes if you wanted to. Or are we not allowed to use a razor blade these days...


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> That is perfect. It will match nicely with my matte black case and red/black theme built. This is a noob question, but you may get alot of first timer type questions with this product. I have never watercooled so it would be nice to have a quick YT video on how to change out the tubes. Maybe how to drain it, take the tubes off, properly mount the new tubes, and refill it. Like i said a noob questions, but there are alot of people buying this poduct who have never watercooled before. If not done by swiftech maybe somebody can do it from the community.


We've been thinking about how to go about putting together some tutorial videos like the ones you're suggesting. The problem was finding someone who would be willing to get in front of the camera and do them. We just solved that issue and it would appear that yours truly is going to be doing the video tutorials for the H220. It's been a while since I was in front of the camera so go easy on the critiques. We start filming the first installation video on Wednesday. Tomorrow I'm mostly going to be busy rehearsing. We'll see how it goes.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Martinm210*
> 
> I want to test one too. Anyone with an H100i they want to loan me for testing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't found a sponsor yet.
> 
> And no the bare pump bottom is black, I just had too much lighting in that photo.
> 
> Regarding long tubes, I'd actually like it if they were longer. The bottom rad mount on my Switch 810 may not work if the tubes were any shorter. And it's not like you can't cut the tubing if you wanted them shorter. It is after all easy to mod shorter tubes if you wanted to. Or are we not allowed to use a razor blade these days...


i'll give you my 3820 and an h100i for your 3930k


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ckD1W_XvHyY#t=406s
> 
> Does the pump always make the bubbly noises, or will that go away in time? That much noise would drive me crazy, and the pump noise is the only thing worrying me about this kit.


No, that's just from a little air being left in the pump. After it runs for a few minutes or so that noise will go away.


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> We've been thinking about how to go about putting together some tutorial videos like the ones you're suggesting. The problem was finding someone who would be willing to get in front of the camera and do them. We just solved that issue and it would appear that yours truly is going to be doing the video tutorials for the H220. It's been a while since I was in front of the camera so go easy on the critiques. We start filming the first installation video on Wednesday. Tomorrow I'm mostly going to be busy rehearsing. We'll see how it goes.


Awesome. If a picture is worth a 1,000 words then a video is worth a million. How bout making the first one changing out the tubes to help a noob like m:thumb:e. I must say I am very impressed with Swiftechs support and interactions with the customers.


----------



## dartuil

swiftech can send me a sample of H220 so i do a user review
I have time for this I work in computer science and in a cyber café








I dont ask sponsor im new some sample to start would be cool already ask some manufacturer and I failed


----------



## Martinm210

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> i'll give you my 3820 and an h100i for your 3930k


Umm...No...I likey my 3930..by far the most stable and reliable processor I've had so far. I can run 12 threads of prime and still surf the internet as if nothing is going on. I can also bounce it off the thermal ceiling and it usually plugs along as if nothing is the matter. It's a HOT ***** running 4.5, but it's a stable one and cranks through HD video like nothing else..









I do all of this with speedstep in place too, so a cool 25W 1.2 Ghz wisper ramps up to a 180W 4.5Ghz beast, I like it that way..









I'll probably just go out and buy an H100i myself, I'd like to try one to compare myself but the H220 is my top dog so far in my kit testing, haven't tried any seals systems yet though.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Martinm210*
> 
> Umm...No...I likey my 3930..by far the most stable and reliable processor I've had so far. I can run 12 threads of prime and still surf the internet as if nothing is going on. I can also bounce it off the thermal ceiling and it usually plugs along as if nothing is the matter. It's a HOT ***** running 4.5, but it's a stable one and cranks through HD video like nothing else..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do all of this with speedstep in place too, so a cool 25W 1.2 Ghz wisper ramps up to a 180W 4.5Ghz beast, I like it that way..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll probably just go out and buy an H100i myself, I'd like to try one to compare myself but the H220 is my top dog so far in my kit testing, haven't tried any seals systems yet though.


k, i tried. Anyways, have you tested the h220 in a mid tower case, just thinking that more users would have a mid tower and the results would be closer to what they/we should expect.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Martin have you looked into the Fractal Arc Midi R2 case. Its a perfect case to watercool with for $110 US.


----------



## gkolarov

What will happen if there is a leak somewhere in the system? Isn't it very dangerous ? How can we prevent a possible leak ? And does the warranty covers the possible damages from a leak ?


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Martinm210*
> 
> Umm...No...I likey my 3930..by far the most stable and reliable processor I've had so far. I can run 12 threads of prime and still surf the internet as if nothing is going on. I can also bounce it off the thermal ceiling and it usually plugs along as if nothing is the matter. It's a HOT ***** running 4.5, but it's a stable one and cranks through HD video like nothing else..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do all of this with speedstep in place too, so a cool 25W 1.2 Ghz wisper ramps up to a 180W 4.5Ghz beast, I like it that way..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll probably just go out and buy an H100i myself, I'd like to try one to compare myself but the H220 is my top dog so far in my kit testing, haven't tried any seals systems yet though.


Any chance you would be able to put an RX240 in the XSPC Raystorm 750 kit to see how the thicker rad differs? The RX240 kit is so close in price at $175, and the RX360 is only $180 now at frozenCPU (though with the older 750 res/pump), Im having a really hard time deciding which I want to go with. The H220 saves some money and space, but Im really trying to get as quiet as possible. In your 750 V4 res/pump review you said it was one of the quietest pumps you tested, but you did so before the H220. How does the noise compare between them?
Id likely replace the XSPC fans with Noctuas, but the Helix should be fine enough, so that helps the price for the H220 as well.
Would be running a 2500K with 670, and likely a second 670. Don't care if they are overclocked, I can just run the CPU at 4 with an undervolt, and the cards at stock and be fine. Just want it quiet.


----------



## Greenback

I would love to see martin do all his tests on the h100i and also the corsair fans on this, having ap-15 on my rads I know the difference of running them at 50% and 100% can make to temps.
If I had 1 martin I would happily go back to air and send it to you for testing


----------



## MeanBruce

whoops


----------



## d3v0

How would this mount into my antec p182? Or is it time for a new case?


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> We've been thinking about how to go about putting together some tutorial videos like the ones you're suggesting. The problem was finding someone who would be willing to get in front of the camera and do them. We just solved that issue and it would appear that yours truly is going to be doing the video tutorials for the H220. It's been a while since I was in front of the camera so go easy on the critiques. We start filming the first installation video on Wednesday. Tomorrow I'm mostly going to be busy rehearsing. We'll see how it goes.


Don't mind me, just getting my torch and pitchfork ready.


----------



## Martinm210

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> k, i tried. Anyways, have you tested the h220 in a mid tower case, just thinking that more users would have a mid tower and the results would be closer to what they/we should expect.


Almost did that, but decided on the switch 810 due to better air flow and 360 expansion possibilities up top. I would like to do some sort of VGA expansion testing phase after the phase 1 kit testing and IMHO you really should go bigger on the rad if you start dumping 400w into the loop. I have a few 360 rads at the ready for that, just need to find a VGA block for my 570gtx.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Martin have you looked into the Fractal Arc Midi R2 case. Its a perfect case to watercool with for $110 US.


Haven't looked at that one, but really enjoying the Switch 810. It has been a long time since I have used a case..








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> Any chance you would be able to put an RX240 in the XSPC Raystorm 750 kit to see how the thicker rad differs? The RX240 kit is so close in price at $175, and the RX360 is only $180 now at frozenCPU (though with the older 750 res/pump), Im having a really hard time deciding which I want to go with. The H220 saves some money and space, but Im really trying to get as quiet as possible. In your 750 V4 res/pump review you said it was one of the quietest pumps you tested, but you did so before the H220. How does the noise compare between them?
> Id likely replace the XSPC fans with Noctuas, but the Helix should be fine enough, so that helps the price for the H220 as well.
> Would be running a 2500K with 670, and likely a second 670. Don't care if they are overclocked, I can just run the CPU at 4 with an undervolt, and the cards at stock and be fine. Just want it quiet.


I don't have an RX240, but I do have the D5bay res so I could try what happens with more pumping power as a phase 3/4 type test.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> I would love to see martin do all his tests on the h100i and also the corsair fans on this, having ap-15 on my rads I know the difference of running them at 50% and 100% can make to temps.
> If I had 1 martin I would happily go back to air and send it to you for testing


Thanks. I will probably just buy an h100i myself. Too many users out there to not include it and I am curious to try out their new fans anyhow. Couldn't say enough good about my TX650 PSU so if their cooler is half as good as their PSU then it's worth trying..


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> We've been thinking about how to go about putting together some tutorial videos like the ones you're suggesting. The problem was finding someone who would be willing to get in front of the camera and do them. We just solved that issue and it would appear that yours truly is going to be doing the video tutorials for the H220. It's been a while since I was in front of the camera so go easy on the critiques. We start filming the first installation video on Wednesday. Tomorrow I'm mostly going to be busy rehearsing. We'll see how it goes.


I think it will be very important for your sales of the unit. There will be many people who decide to buy the H220 based on your videos. If they can watch it and feel that they know how to change tubing, empty it, refill it, hook up new fittings, connect it to a gpu, etc. then they will feel comfortable buying it. Just like when you mentioned about running the pump for a little, then filling it more. Many would not know that.

Safe rule of thumb is just assume your audience knows literally zero about water cooling.


----------



## curamrda

is there any tutorial how to add also gpu cooling?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curamrda*
> 
> is there any tutorial how to add also gpu cooling?


We haven't done the tutorials yet, but we are planning to do one on how to add a GPU to the loop. There will likely be several of them available on our website and YouTube in the weeks to come. We just need to arrange to have them filmed. We'll be filming the installation video tomorrow.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Don't mind me, just getting my torch and pitchfork ready.


Thanks Avonosac, that makes me fell a lot better.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Martinm210*
> 
> I want to test one too. Anyone with an H100i they want to loan me for testing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't found a sponsor yet.
> 
> And no the bare pump bottom is black, I just had too much lighting in that photo.
> 
> Regarding long tubes, I'd actually like it if they were longer. The bottom rad mount on my Switch 810 may not work if the tubes were any shorter. And it's not like you can't cut the tubing if you wanted them shorter. It is after all easy to mod shorter tubes if you wanted to. Or are we not allowed to use a razor blade these days...


Martin, I have an H100i that I picked up in trade. We may be able to work something out







. I'll PM you.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ckD1W_XvHyY#t=406s
> 
> Does the pump always make the bubbly noises, or will that go away in time? That much noise would drive me crazy, and the pump noise is the only thing worrying me about this kit.


it usually go away within minutes. I'm guessing the unit was opened up before that recording and he got a little bit of air in, then moved it around.


----------



## Rustynails

does this cooler fit in a 400r ?


----------



## Martinm210

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Martin, I have an H100i that I picked up in trade. We may be able to work something out
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I'll PM you.


You have PM ..


----------



## M3TAl

Yay







. I hope Martin gets an H100i.


----------



## ez12a

i really want to see a true h100i and h220 comparison, so i hope martin can get his hands on one.

Tired of these "similar setup" comparisons.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> i really want to see a true h100i and h220 comparison, so i hope martin can get his hands on one.
> 
> Tired of these "similar setup" comparisons.


After the PM I got in response, I can say that IT IS HAPPENING.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Mind my ignorance - but what will the price be of this unit incl shipping the the UK/EU?
I know the US price is $140 thus £92 - but is that including shipping to the UK?

If so, I'll place an order.


----------



## MiwaPi

Looks like its priced for £ 106.99 at SpecialTech.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MiwaPi*
> 
> Looks like its priced for £ 106.99 at SpecialTech.


that's the price I found myself too.
But I was wondering if they are actually authorised and/or if I could buy it directly from swiftech?

As for the fans:
SP120's quiet edition or the stock ones would be better in terms of static pressure?


----------



## circeseye

can the h220 handle both a amd 8350 and a 7950 in the same loop or would i need another radiator and or pump???


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> that's the price I found myself too.
> But I was wondering if they are actually authorised and/or if I could buy it directly from swiftech?
> 
> As for the fans:
> SP120's quiet edition or the stock ones would be better in terms of static pressure?


If you're located outside of the US or Canada you won't be able to purchase these directly from us. You will need to go through our distributor partners. Specialtech is one of these and therefore you should be able to purchase it directly from them.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> If you're located outside of the US or Canada you won't be able to purchase these directly from us. You will need to go through our distributor partners. Specialtech is one of these and therefore you should be able to purchase it directly from them.


ah perfect could you list the UK distributors that you have?
And in terms of warranty how would that work? Would I be sending it back to them or will it go directly to say special tech?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *circeseye*
> 
> can the h220 handle both a amd 8350 and a 7950 in the same loop or would i need another radiator and or pump???


It will depend on your thermal situation and what kind of overclock you intend to put on the chips. I would recommend using just the included radiator if your ambient and case internal temperatures are good and just a slight overclock. Of course that will also have to do with how much of a voltage increase you needed in order to get that overclock. It's the voltage increase that actually puts more heat on the chip and therefore in your loop. Each situation will be different.


----------



## Phishy714

BRAM!

I am thinking of getting the H220 for my CPU at first, then adding a waterblock for my Titan and possibly another TITAN down the road when 1 isn't cutting it anymore.

Obviously, the single H220 with a gpu block probably won't be the BEST option - in your experience (try to be as subjective as you can despite you being an Swiftech employee







) what would be the ideal extra rad to go with a setup like this?

I will be running an Arc Midi 2 or Define R4 most likely.


----------



## justanoldman

Can we assume we will be able to pick up the H220 at a Micro Center next week, or is that still up in the air?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> BRAM!
> 
> I am thinking of getting the H220 for my CPU at first, then adding a waterblock for my Titan and possibly another TITAN down the road when 1 isn't cutting it anymore.
> 
> Obviously, the single H220 with a gpu block probably won't be the BEST option - in your experience (try to be as subjective as you can despite you being an XSPC employee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) what would be the ideal extra rad to go with a setup like this?
> 
> I will be running an Arc Midi 2 or Define R4 most likely.


I believe you mean Swiftech







. As he said to another poster earlier, it will depend on how high you plan to OC and what voltage increases are required for that OC, since it's the added voltage that will dump heat into the loop. Personally I'd try it with just the one rad and OC as high as you can stable on the stock voltages, then see if your temps are acceptable in your eyes. You can always add another rad later if you want to further OC or don't like the results.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> ah perfect could you list the UK distributors that you have?
> And in terms of warranty how would that work? Would I be sending it back to them or will it go directly to say special tech?


I don't know all of our UK distributors, but I would think that by simply checking the ones that you know you should be able to determine if they carry our products. Our European distributor is Bacata, so you will need to go through them for warranty support once the typical 30 day return or exchange period has ended from the store that you purchased it from.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Can we assume we will be able to pick up the H220 at a Micro Center next week, or is that still up in the air?


Microcenter should have these next week.


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> I believe you mean Swiftech
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . As he said to another poster earlier, it will depend on how high you plan to OC and what voltage increases are required for that OC, since it's the added voltage that will dump heat into the loop. Personally I'd try it with just the one rad and OC as high as you can stable on the stock voltages, then see if your temps are acceptable in your eyes. You can always add another rad later if you want to further OC or don't like the results.


SORRY!!!

Fix'd


----------



## Neo Zuko

I wonder if I can fit a H220 and AX1200i in the top of my SM8 at the same level, meaning both on the roof?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> BRAM!
> 
> I am thinking of getting the H220 for my CPU at first, then adding a waterblock for my Titan and possibly another TITAN down the road when 1 isn't cutting it anymore.
> 
> Obviously, the single H220 with a gpu block probably won't be the BEST option - in your experience (try to be as subjective as you can despite you being an Swiftech employee
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) what would be the ideal extra rad to go with a setup like this?
> 
> I will be running an Arc Midi 2 or Define R4 most likely.


Well, if you get the arc midi it'll fit a 240/280 rad up front no problems, the easiest way to do it would probably be get another swiftech quiet power radiator and some more helix fans. That is what the h220 comes with, as far as I know, they pretty much pull a quiet power radiator off the shelf. You could get a lot crazier than that, but 480 of rad's would most likely be enough for a CPU and GPU block, at least to start out with, and only cost you probably around $65-70(not including the extra block), depending on shipping and what type of tubing/fittings you get.

In the end, a lot of variables come into play. How much you OC, what acceptable noise levels are to you, what acceptable temps are to you, if you are using p/p or not, your ambients, how much room your case has, how much you are willing to spend, what types of blocks you have. The simple rule that gets thrown around a lot is you want 120mm of rad per block, + 120 on top of that to have a pretty solid temperature/noise performance levels.


----------



## Rustynails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Well, if you get the arc midi it'll fit a 240/280 rad up front no problems, the easiest way to do it would probably be get another swiftech quiet power radiator and some more helix fans. That is what the h220 comes with, as far as I know, they pretty much pull a quiet power radiator off the shelf. You could get a lot crazier than that, but 480 of rad's would most likely be enough for a CPU and GPU block, at least to start out with, and only cost you probably around $65-70(not including the extra block), depending on shipping and what type of tubing/fittings you get.
> 
> In the end, a lot of variables come into play. How much you OC, what acceptable noise levels are to you, what acceptable temps are to you, if you are using p/p or not, your ambients, how much room your case has, how much you are willing to spend, what types of blocks you have. The simple rule that gets thrown around a lot is you want 120mm of rad per block, + 120 on top of that to have a pretty solid temperature/noise performance levels.


will the

what about the pump will it be good for the cpu and gpu?


----------



## curamrda

Hi swiftech...really appreciate your answer. I am copletly new in water cooling. So I have several questions:
1] doesnt not matter if i would like to change the hoses for some transparent or phosphoric?
2] because of adding gpu cooling the fluid has to be out? can i use it again? or buy new fluid? it doesnt matter which one?
3] what about the corrosion?
4] I have core i5 with Silver Arrow cooller and I belive that temparature of the CPU has never been more than 60°C , but gpu about 90°C all the time in Load. So if I will connect also the gpu, the temparuture of cpu will be higher, right??


----------



## [email protected]

Dear Forum members, in response Mr Tom Logan's review on overclock3d.net, I have the following comments which I would like to share with you here.

I. On the subject of Performance of the H220 relative to Corsair H100i on the 2011 platform at approximately equal fan speed.

Our observations are as follows:

Possible factor #1 - operating fan speed : Swiftech was tested at fixed 12v (1800 rpm) and Corsair H100i was tested in Balanced mode.

According to Corsair, I cite:

"The "Low Noise", "Balanced", and "High Performance" settings are not strict fan RPMs, but performance curves that let the fans spin up based on internal coolant temp. Their settings are as follows:

Low Noise - 900 RPM to 1300 RPM
Balanced - 1300 RPM to 2000 RPM
High Perf - 1600 RPM to 2600 RPM"

Therefore, because of the high heat load generated by this particular processor (150W +++) it is possible/likely that the Corsair fans operated at their maximum of 2000 RPM in such balanced mode (versus the H220 1800 RPM), which certainly could account for a 2C loss for the Swiftech unit against the Corsair.

Possible factor #2 -Thermal compound - Assuming that all units were tested with the same thermal compound

In our own lab testing, and at high temperature loads, we have measured more than 2C difference between our TIM-Mate 2 and Corsair's pre-applied compound. So by testing the units with a better compound than the original pre-applied stuff, this could artificially boost performance of the Corsair by up to 2C, which is not representative of the product performance "as shipped".

For further clarifications, Swiftech's position on the subject matter of doing comparative testing/reviews of AIO units is that they should be tested in two stages, and the relevant data reported to readers as follows:
1. "as received", based on the rationale that the vast majority of these products is sold to first time users who do not generally replace the thermal compound, particularly when it is pre-applied, and
2. with the same thermal compound so as to establish the thermal characteristics of the product using the same baseline, which provides additional information to the more advanced users.

For the record, all comparative test data published by Swiftech is based on item 1 in accordance with the above stated belief.

Conclusions:

Both of the above factors combined yield up to 4C or more in favor of the Corsair. When readjusted downwards as such, the data would be consistent with our own testing at +/- 1C. In effect, we observed in our lab that the Corsair H100i unit performed substantially better than the earlier H100 version on the Socket LGA 2011 platform compared to 1155 and 1366, and came close (by 1.7C) to the performance of our H220 at equal fan speed on this particular platform.

II. On the subject of Expandability and other matters

• We noticed a factual error in Mr Logan's presentation, and would like to correct it; he says erroneously and I cite: "it is technically a DDC". As explained at length in our video presentations the pump is entirely Swiftech developed and Swiftech manufactured. It is not "Technically" a Laing Made DDC.
• We cannot respond in details to Mr Logan's comments on the subject of our kit's expandability, such as adding a VGA in particular, becasue the opinions expressed by Mr Logan are not backed by factual data. We can only state that we DEMONSTRATED the product to be fully expandable to a full panel of media specialists during CES.

III. On the subject of tubing length
We could not but notice Mr Logans' extreme frustration regarding the above subject matter. What we can respond with is this:
o as far as the primary target user is concerned (first time user), we intentionally supply longer tubing than other AIO kits with the H220 because we genuinely believe that it will provide more choices to users in terms of installation of the product in their case, such as frontal installation, or installation at the bottom of the case.
o As far as the DIY enthusiast user is concerned, our decision was based on the rationale that the H220 tubing can be replaced at will by such users.

We want to thank overclock3D.net for granting a Gold Award to the H220 CPU cooler, and hope that the above commentaries will further assist users in deciding which kit is right for them.

Gabriel Rouchon
CEO


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Forum members, in response Mr Tom Logan's review on overclock3d.net, I have the following comments which I would like to share with you here.
> 
> I. On the subject of Performance of the H220 relative to Corsair H100i on the 2011 platform at approximately equal fan speed.
> 
> Our observations are as follows:
> 
> Possible factor #1 - operating fan speed : Swiftech was tested at fixed 12v (1800 rpm) and Corsair H100i was tested in Balanced mode.
> 
> According to Corsair, I cite:
> 
> "The "Low Noise", "Balanced", and "High Performance" settings are not strict fan RPMs, but performance curves that let the fans spin up based on internal coolant temp. Their settings are as follows:
> 
> Low Noise - 900 RPM to 1300 RPM
> Balanced - 1300 RPM to 2000 RPM
> High Perf - 1600 RPM to 2600 RPM"
> 
> Therefore, because of the high heat load generated by this particular processor (150W +++) it is possible/likely that the Corsair fans operated at their maximum of 2000 RPM in such balanced mode (versus the H220 1800 RPM), which certainly could account for a 2C loss for the Swiftech unit against the Corsair.
> 
> Possible factor #2 -Thermal compound - Assuming that all units were tested with the same thermal compound
> 
> In our own lab testing, and at high temperature loads, we have measured more than 2C difference between our TIM-Mate 2 and Corsair's pre-applied compound. So by testing the units with a better compound than the original pre-applied stuff, this could artificially boost performance of the Corsair by up to 2C, which is not representative of the product performance "as shipped".
> 
> For further clarifications, Swiftech's position on the subject matter of doing comparative testing/reviews of AIO units is that they should be tested in two stages, and the relevant data reported to readers as follows:
> 1. "as received", based on the rationale that the vast majority of these products is sold to first time users who do not generally replace the thermal compound, particularly when it is pre-applied, and
> 2. with the same thermal compound so as to establish the thermal characteristics of the product using the same baseline, which provides additional information to the more advanced users.
> 
> For the record, all comparative test data published by Swiftech is based on item 1 in accordance with the above stated belief.
> 
> Conclusions:
> 
> Both of the above factors combined yield up to 4C or more in favor of the Corsair. When readjusted downwards as such, the data would be consistent with our own testing at +/- 1C. In effect, we observed in our lab that the Corsair H100i unit performed substantially better than the earlier H100 version on the Socket LGA 2011 platform compared to 1155 and 1366, and came close (by 1.7C) to the performance of our H220 at equal fan speed on this particular platform.
> 
> II. On the subject of Expandability and other matters
> 
> • We noticed a factual error in Mr Logan's presentation, and would like to correct it; he says erroneously and I cite: "it is technically a DDC". As explained at length in our video presentations the pump is entirely Swiftech developed and Swiftech manufactured. It is not "Technically" a Laing Made DDC.
> • We cannot respond in details to Mr Logan's comments on the subject of our kit's expandability, such as adding a VGA in particular, becasue the opinions expressed by Mr Logan are not backed by factual data. We can only state that we DEMONSTRATED the product to be fully expandable to a full panel of media specialists during CES.
> 
> III. On the subject of tubing length
> We could not but notice Mr Logans' extreme frustration regarding the above subject matter. What we can respond with is this:
> o as far as the primary target user is concerned (first time user), we intentionally supply longer tubing than other AIO kits with the H220 because we genuinely believe that it will provide more choices to users in terms of installation of the product in their case, such as frontal installation, or installation at the bottom of the case.
> o As far as the DIY enthusiast user is concerned, our decision was based on the rationale that the H220 tubing can be replaced at will by such users.
> 
> We want to thank overclock3D.net for granting a Gold Award to the H220 CPU cooler, and hope that the above commentaries will further assist users in deciding which kit is right for them.
> 
> Gabriel Rouchon
> CEO


Don't worry gabe, he didn't do much damage - here at least as everyone thought his review was crap.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> I'm gonna remove the honeycomb and cover the pump with white cf vinyl and cut out the swiftech logo. Would look great with white tubing imo
> 
> edit : I meant pump
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forgot the pump was on the block lol[/quote
> 
> Yeah some people like that gurly, gurly look.


----------



## Phishy714

^

+1

I also kinda laughed at the fact that he kept saying that "if you are going to drain the fluid and add a gpu block, you might as well go full custom.

That is only true if money is not a factor. A FULL CUSTOM kit with a cpu block, gpu block, two 240 rads, a HIGH QUALITY pump and reservoir, tubes and fittings, and fans you are EASILY EASILY looking at around $550, not including the RIDICULOUS shipping charges some of these companies charge lol.

With the H220 at $140 plus a $70 gpu block and $70 rad plus tubing and fittings, you are looking at under $300, call it $330 shipped. Not sure about you, but I don't see a full custom, $550+ water cooling setup being THAT MUCH better than the above described H220 expanded setup. Sure, it might be a couple degrees cooler, but I don't see it being better overall.


----------



## guinner16

Its nice that Swiftech responded, but I would have just ignored the guy. Also, the 2 degree Celsius change on TTL's review could have been from his big ears obstructing airflow.


----------



## spikexp

Here we go, my order for the H220 is made on ncix canada









I'm quite sad the helix 120 pwm are backorder for now (my order is placed, I just need to wait), I'm waiting for 2 more of them to push-pull the h220


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Roadkill95*
> 
> I'm gonna remove the honeycomb and cover the pump with white cf vinyl and cut out the swiftech logo. Would look great with white tubing imo
> 
> edit : I meant pump
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> forgot the pump was on the block lol
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah some people like that gurly, gurly look.
Click to expand...

Who made you the official judge of what is girly? White is more of a neutral color. It's definitely no pink.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Dear Forum members, in response Mr Tom Logan's review on overclock3d.net, I have the following comments which I would like to share with you here.
> 
> I. On the subject of Performance of the H220 relative to Corsair H100i on the 2011 platform at approximately equal fan speed.
> 
> Our observations are as follows:
> 
> Possible factor #1 - operating fan speed : Swiftech was tested at fixed 12v (1800 rpm) and Corsair H100i was tested in Balanced mode.
> 
> According to Corsair, I cite:
> 
> "The "Low Noise", "Balanced", and "High Performance" settings are not strict fan RPMs, but performance curves that let the fans spin up based on internal coolant temp. Their settings are as follows:
> 
> Low Noise - 900 RPM to 1300 RPM
> Balanced - 1300 RPM to 2000 RPM
> High Perf - 1600 RPM to 2600 RPM"
> 
> Therefore, because of the high heat load generated by this particular processor (150W +++) it is possible/likely that the Corsair fans operated at their maximum of 2000 RPM in such balanced mode (versus the H220 1800 RPM), which certainly could account for a 2C loss for the Swiftech unit against the Corsair.
> 
> Possible factor #2 -Thermal compound - Assuming that all units were tested with the same thermal compound
> 
> In our own lab testing, and at high temperature loads, we have measured more than 2C difference between our TIM-Mate 2 and Corsair's pre-applied compound. So by testing the units with a better compound than the original pre-applied stuff, this could artificially boost performance of the Corsair by up to 2C, which is not representative of the product performance "as shipped".
> 
> For further clarifications, Swiftech's position on the subject matter of doing comparative testing/reviews of AIO units is that they should be tested in two stages, and the relevant data reported to readers as follows:
> 1. "as received", based on the rationale that the vast majority of these products is sold to first time users who do not generally replace the thermal compound, particularly when it is pre-applied, and
> 2. with the same thermal compound so as to establish the thermal characteristics of the product using the same baseline, which provides additional information to the more advanced users.
> 
> For the record, all comparative test data published by Swiftech is based on item 1 in accordance with the above stated belief.
> 
> Conclusions:
> 
> Both of the above factors combined yield up to 4C or more in favor of the Corsair. When readjusted downwards as such, the data would be consistent with our own testing at +/- 1C. In effect, we observed in our lab that the Corsair H100i unit performed substantially better than the earlier H100 version on the Socket LGA 2011 platform compared to 1155 and 1366, and came close (by 1.7C) to the performance of our H220 at equal fan speed on this particular platform.
> 
> II. On the subject of Expandability and other matters
> 
> • We noticed a factual error in Mr Logan's presentation, and would like to correct it; he says erroneously and I cite: "it is technically a DDC". As explained at length in our video presentations the pump is entirely Swiftech developed and Swiftech manufactured. It is not "Technically" a Laing Made DDC.
> • We cannot respond in details to Mr Logan's comments on the subject of our kit's expandability, such as adding a VGA in particular, becasue the opinions expressed by Mr Logan are not backed by factual data. We can only state that we DEMONSTRATED the product to be fully expandable to a full panel of media specialists during CES.
> 
> III. On the subject of tubing length
> We could not but notice Mr Logans' extreme frustration regarding the above subject matter. What we can respond with is this:
> o as far as the primary target user is concerned (first time user), we intentionally supply longer tubing than other AIO kits with the H220 because we genuinely believe that it will provide more choices to users in terms of installation of the product in their case, such as frontal installation, or installation at the bottom of the case.
> o As far as the DIY enthusiast user is concerned, our decision was based on the rationale that the H220 tubing can be replaced at will by such users.
> 
> We want to thank overclock3D.net for granting a Gold Award to the H220 CPU cooler, and hope that the above commentaries will further assist users in deciding which kit is right for them.
> 
> Gabriel Rouchon
> 
> I hope this refutation of Tom Logan's review was posted on his website. So those who are exposed to it have a chance to understand the issues with his review.
> CEO


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Dear Forum members, in response Mr Tom Logan's review on overclock3d.net, I have the following comments which I would like to share with you here.
> 
> I. On the subject of Performance of the H220 relative to Corsair H100i on the 2011 platform at approximately equal fan speed.
> 
> Our observations are as follows:
> 
> Possible factor #1 - operating fan speed : Swiftech was tested at fixed 12v (1800 rpm) and Corsair H100i was tested in Balanced mode.
> 
> According to Corsair, I cite:
> 
> "The "Low Noise", "Balanced", and "High Performance" settings are not strict fan RPMs, but performance curves that let the fans spin up based on internal coolant temp. Their settings are as follows:
> 
> Low Noise - 900 RPM to 1300 RPM
> Balanced - 1300 RPM to 2000 RPM
> High Perf - 1600 RPM to 2600 RPM"
> 
> Therefore, because of the high heat load generated by this particular processor (150W +++) it is possible/likely that the Corsair fans operated at their maximum of 2000 RPM in such balanced mode (versus the H220 1800 RPM), which certainly could account for a 2C loss for the Swiftech unit against the Corsair.
> 
> Possible factor #2 -Thermal compound - Assuming that all units were tested with the same thermal compound
> 
> In our own lab testing, and at high temperature loads, we have measured more than 2C difference between our TIM-Mate 2 and Corsair's pre-applied compound. So by testing the units with a better compound than the original pre-applied stuff, this could artificially boost performance of the Corsair by up to 2C, which is not representative of the product performance "as shipped".
> 
> For further clarifications, Swiftech's position on the subject matter of doing comparative testing/reviews of AIO units is that they should be tested in two stages, and the relevant data reported to readers as follows:
> 1. "as received", based on the rationale that the vast majority of these products is sold to first time users who do not generally replace the thermal compound, particularly when it is pre-applied, and
> 2. with the same thermal compound so as to establish the thermal characteristics of the product using the same baseline, which provides additional information to the more advanced users.
> 
> For the record, all comparative test data published by Swiftech is based on item 1 in accordance with the above stated belief.
> 
> Conclusions:
> 
> Both of the above factors combined yield up to 4C or more in favor of the Corsair. When readjusted downwards as such, the data would be consistent with our own testing at +/- 1C. In effect, we observed in our lab that the Corsair H100i unit performed substantially better than the earlier H100 version on the Socket LGA 2011 platform compared to 1155 and 1366, and came close (by 1.7C) to the performance of our H220 at equal fan speed on this particular platform.
> 
> II. On the subject of Expandability and other matters
> 
> • We noticed a factual error in Mr Logan's presentation, and would like to correct it; he says erroneously and I cite: "it is technically a DDC". As explained at length in our video presentations the pump is entirely Swiftech developed and Swiftech manufactured. It is not "Technically" a Laing Made DDC.
> • We cannot respond in details to Mr Logan's comments on the subject of our kit's expandability, such as adding a VGA in particular, becasue the opinions expressed by Mr Logan are not backed by factual data. We can only state that we DEMONSTRATED the product to be fully expandable to a full panel of media specialists during CES.
> 
> III. On the subject of tubing length
> We could not but notice Mr Logans' extreme frustration regarding the above subject matter. What we can respond with is this:
> o as far as the primary target user is concerned (first time user), we intentionally supply longer tubing than other AIO kits with the H220 because we genuinely believe that it will provide more choices to users in terms of installation of the product in their case, such as frontal installation, or installation at the bottom of the case.
> o As far as the DIY enthusiast user is concerned, our decision was based on the rationale that the H220 tubing can be replaced at will by such users.
> 
> We want to thank overclock3D.net for granting a Gold Award to the H220 CPU cooler, and hope that the above commentaries will further assist users in deciding which kit is right for them.
> 
> Gabriel Rouchon
> 
> I hope this refutation of Tom Logan's review was posted on his website. So those who are exposed to it have a chance to understand the issues with his review.
> CEO


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Dear Forum members, in response Mr Tom Logan's review on overclock3d.net, I have the following comments which I would like to share with you here.
> 
> I. On the subject of Performance of the H220 relative to Corsair H100i on the 2011 platform at approximately equal fan speed.
> 
> Our observations are as follows:
> 
> Possible factor #1 - operating fan speed : Swiftech was tested at fixed 12v (1800 rpm) and Corsair H100i was tested in Balanced mode.
> 
> According to Corsair, I cite:
> 
> "The "Low Noise", "Balanced", and "High Performance" settings are not strict fan RPMs, but performance curves that let the fans spin up based on internal coolant temp. Their settings are as follows:
> 
> Low Noise - 900 RPM to 1300 RPM
> Balanced - 1300 RPM to 2000 RPM
> High Perf - 1600 RPM to 2600 RPM"
> 
> Therefore, because of the high heat load generated by this particular processor (150W +++) it is possible/likely that the Corsair fans operated at their maximum of 2000 RPM in such balanced mode (versus the H220 1800 RPM), which certainly could account for a 2C loss for the Swiftech unit against the Corsair.
> 
> Possible factor #2 -Thermal compound - Assuming that all units were tested with the same thermal compound
> 
> In our own lab testing, and at high temperature loads, we have measured more than 2C difference between our TIM-Mate 2 and Corsair's pre-applied compound. So by testing the units with a better compound than the original pre-applied stuff, this could artificially boost performance of the Corsair by up to 2C, which is not representative of the product performance "as shipped".
> 
> For further clarifications, Swiftech's position on the subject matter of doing comparative testing/reviews of AIO units is that they should be tested in two stages, and the relevant data reported to readers as follows:
> 1. "as received", based on the rationale that the vast majority of these products is sold to first time users who do not generally replace the thermal compound, particularly when it is pre-applied, and
> 2. with the same thermal compound so as to establish the thermal characteristics of the product using the same baseline, which provides additional information to the more advanced users.
> 
> For the record, all comparative test data published by Swiftech is based on item 1 in accordance with the above stated belief.
> 
> Conclusions:
> 
> Both of the above factors combined yield up to 4C or more in favor of the Corsair. When readjusted downwards as such, the data would be consistent with our own testing at +/- 1C. In effect, we observed in our lab that the Corsair H100i unit performed substantially better than the earlier H100 version on the Socket LGA 2011 platform compared to 1155 and 1366, and came close (by 1.7C) to the performance of our H220 at equal fan speed on this particular platform.
> 
> II. On the subject of Expandability and other matters
> 
> • We noticed a factual error in Mr Logan's presentation, and would like to correct it; he says erroneously and I cite: "it is technically a DDC". As explained at length in our video presentations the pump is entirely Swiftech developed and Swiftech manufactured. It is not "Technically" a Laing Made DDC.
> • We cannot respond in details to Mr Logan's comments on the subject of our kit's expandability, such as adding a VGA in particular, becasue the opinions expressed by Mr Logan are not backed by factual data. We can only state that we DEMONSTRATED the product to be fully expandable to a full panel of media specialists during CES.
> 
> III. On the subject of tubing length
> We could not but notice Mr Logans' extreme frustration regarding the above subject matter. What we can respond with is this:
> o as far as the primary target user is concerned (first time user), we intentionally supply longer tubing than other AIO kits with the H220 because we genuinely believe that it will provide more choices to users in terms of installation of the product in their case, such as frontal installation, or installation at the bottom of the case.
> o As far as the DIY enthusiast user is concerned, our decision was based on the rationale that the H220 tubing can be replaced at will by such users.
> 
> We want to thank overclock3D.net for granting a Gold Award to the H220 CPU cooler, and hope that the above commentaries will further assist users in deciding which kit is right for them.
> 
> Gabriel Rouchon
> CEO






Gabe we all understand, but TTL does not. Even when told to him exactly. He also mentioned not to buy Swiftech Rads, which is bad to do for any business stand point. That there is just disrespectful.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Mind my ignorance - but what will the price be of this unit incl shipping the the UK/EU?
> I know the US price is $140 thus £92 - but is that including shipping to the UK?
> 
> If so, I'll place an order.


No way will that US price include shipping to the UK. The US price does not include your 18% VAT either.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Mind my ignorance - but what will the price be of this unit incl shipping the the UK/EU?
> I know the US price is $140 thus £92 - but is that including shipping to the UK?
> 
> If so, I'll place an order.


No way will that US price include shipping to the UK. The US price does not include your 18% VAT either.


----------



## M3TAl

Ya I didn't understand why he took a shot at swiftech rads. He didn't even give any reasons.

Don't buy brand X! Why? Because I said so.


----------



## Greenback

specialtech have these at £106 in the uk


----------



## os2wiz

I remember the general strike in Martinique and Guadeloupe a couple of years ago. Is that trade union leader from Martinique still in jail?? That was some nasty repressive tactics by the French capitalists.
Only goes to show "communist revolution is the only solution" as they said in Port au Prince Haiti a few months ago on a march of teachers and students.


----------



## M3TAl

What in the world does any of that have to do with Swiftech, watercooling, or the H220?


----------



## K62-RIG

More and more reviews of his are giving me the ****s. This review was one such reiew. Since he has taken over the reins of Overclock3d.net the worst his videos have become (and that quick video channel he is apart of). More and more I am watching singularity computers on youtube which are much more informative and helpful.


----------



## Avonosac

os2wiz, trolling and failing at quoting since '12.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> Ya I didn't understand why he took a shot at swiftech rads. He didn't even give any reasons.
> 
> Don't buy brand X! Why? Because I said so.


TTL has bought into the marketing gimmick that thicker rads are "better" rads. This is only true if you're willing to deal with the extra noise generated by having to use higher-speed fans. I used to use thicker rads myself and the performance difference didn't justify the increased noise. At least not in my opinion.


----------



## BramSLI1

Anyone else notice that TTL's award for the H220 went from a Silver to a Gold once the official price was released?


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Anyone else notice that TTL's award for the H220 went from a Silver to a Gold once the official price was released?


Was a price released? Where I haven't seen anything..

I do remember seeing him give it a silver though.. which made me laugh.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> Its nice that Swiftech responded, but I would have just ignored the guy. Also, the 2 degree Celsius change on TTL's review could have been from his big ears obstructing airflow.


It's not good for business to ignore it when it, when it is so easy to do what Gabe did and prevent proper facts. Sure, for many following this thread and people that have been enthusiastically following the h220 it isn't needed. However, not everyone does. Putting correct facts out there for those people is needed.

The days be counting down to us stateside get access to it, usually I'm a patient person but this is stressing it!

And Bram, are you sure that is why he says that? Does he also suggest everyone buy a full size tower, because very few mid-towers support thick rads at all. This is an AIO unit, meaning its targeted to all segments. If he doesn't criticize every other AIO unit for the same thing than he's just being stupid.


----------



## M3TAl

That may be true but in the video he starts saying go buy an XSPC slim rad or Alphacool (think they're both 30mm?). I just don't get why. He gave no reasoning for XSPC or Alphacool over a Swiftech rad.

He talks about it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPfLKkyIJOI&t=21m32s

He even says the Alphacool is much more quite. Does that even make sense? Radiators don't really make noise, the fans on them do. And both the Swiftech and Alphacool are optimized for low speed fans. I'm just left scratching my head.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Anyone else notice that TTL's award for the H220 went from a Silver to a Gold once the official price was released?


Yeah I don't get it either. I think it he was feeling the heat of not making a non-opinionated review







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> That may be true but in the video he starts saying go buy an XSPC slim rad or Alphacool (think they're both 30mm?). I just don't get why. He gave no reasoning for XSPC or Alphacool over a Swiftech rad.
> 
> He talks about it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPfLKkyIJOI&t=21m32s


My understanding is that he was saying that from a purely aesthetic point of view, which is all opinion anyway.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> It's not good for business to ignore it when it, when it is so easy to do what Gabe did and prevent proper facts. Sure, for many following this thread and people that have been enthusiastically following the h220 it isn't needed. However, not everyone does. Putting correct facts out there for those people is needed.
> 
> The days be counting down to us stateside get access to it, usually I'm a patient person but this is stressing it!
> 
> And Bram, are you sure that is why he says that? Does he also suggest everyone buy a full size tower, because very few mid-towers support thick rads at all. This is an AIO unit, meaning its targeted to all segments. If he doesn't criticize every other AIO unit for the same thing than he's just being stupid.


I was mainly talking about his personal preference for his own systems. If you look at all of the systems that he's built recently they've all featured extra thick (60mm +) radiators.


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> My understanding is that he was saying that from a purely aesthetic point of view, which is all opinion anyway.


True, but it's my opinion that a product should be rated by aesthetics either minimally or not at all because everyone's views on this differ greatly. It should be on performance (performance per price as well), reliability, warranty, and things like this. Like complaining about the tubing so much, sure you don't like it but many others do and it greatly increases your mounting options and case compatibility. Just cut the tubing. But he then says you should just go custom because it's much better (even though temp wise an Apogee Drive II would most likely be almost the same). I think the H220 block+pump is a better deal and nicer than the Apogee Drive II.


----------



## Roadkill95

the guys an idiot. he says that the expandability is a moot point because you can't add a gpu block with just one rad but he completely ignored the fact that you can add a second rad.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Anyone else notice that TTL's award for the H220 went from a Silver to a Gold once the official price was released?


TTL does state in the video about price and say if it's under £120 he would give it a gold aka price/performance I would assume


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> TTL does state in the video about price and say if it's under £120 he would give it a gold aka price/performance I would assume


That's true, I was just demonstrating that he was staying true to his word in terms of giving the product a modified award once the official price came out.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> TTL does state in the video about price and say if it's under £120 he would give it a gold aka price/performance I would assume


he made it seem like the only redeeming quality of the pump was its price, hence the silver. He would have given it an even lower rating if it was any higher in his words. Now it's a gold? someone's backtracking.


----------



## Greenback

I use the same nick on oc3d as here so you can check what I have said there

I think the reviews you have linked on the swiftech site are misleading due to the testers using different cpu's and cases to test the h220 and h100i

But even going by the 0c3d review with 4.5c difference at that overclock I would look at the H220 if it had been around when I first did my build it cost me £150 for my first loop 2nd hand so £106 new would of been tempting
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> he made it seem like the only redeeming quality of the pump was its price, hence the silver. He would have given it an even lower rating if it was any higher in his words. Now it's a gold? someone's backtracking.


again price/performance would you pay double for 1c


----------



## dartuil

im waiting for a big review with high end air coolers and x60 and h100i


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> I use the same nick on oc3d as here so you can check what I have said there
> 
> I think the reviews you have linked on the swiftech site are misleading due to the testers using different cpu's and cases to test the h220 and h100i
> 
> But even going by the 0c3d review with 4.5c difference at that overclock I would look at the H220 if it had been around when I first did my build it cost me £150 for my first loop 2nd hand so £106 new would of been tempting


I believe that Martin of Martin's Liquid Labs will soon be doing a comparative review of the H100i and the H220 soon. His methodology is quite sound and he doesn't have any bias that I'm aware of. I'm not saying that Tom is necessarily biased either, I'm just saying that it would appear that some of his preconceived notions played a role in how he reviewed our product. Reviewer's are entitled to their own opinions as is everyone else. Reviewers are people too.


----------



## Greenback

I look forward to that *Bram* he will put the faster h100i fans on it that will be interesting, he again is 1 of the reviewers I trust I did a lot of reading on his site b4 going water

I think your concept of having the chance to upgrade in that you use standard watercooling metals and fixings is great and will give other AIO makers something to think about


----------



## psycow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> 1. "as received", based on the rationale that the vast majority of these products is sold to first time users who do not generally replace the thermal compound
> 
> As far as the DIY enthusiast user is concerned, our decision was based on the rationale that the H220 tubing can be replaced at will by such users.


So... its marketed towards first time user, but you`re saying "HEY you can cut the hose", to the same users that "wont" be changing the paste?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> 
> Gabe we all understand, but TTL does not. Even when told to him exactly. He also mentioned not to buy Swiftech Rads, which is bad to do for any business stand point. That there is just disrespectful.


Im sorry but how is that "disrespectful", afaik Tom dosnt work for Swiftech, his a review, its his job to tell his viewer base if theres a better product on the marked, or do you just want reviewer to agree with corp policy?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> That's true, I was just demonstrating that he was staying true to his word in terms of giving the product a modified award once the official price came out.


Actually you werent saying that, you`re saying that now, but that wasnt what you post beforehand...

I dont understand what the be fuzz is about, if you want this product buy it, however there MIGHT be better AIO units out there, and there also MIGHT be better customs out there.
But then again I dont understand this product, if I wanted AIO I would buy that, and if I wanted custom I would buy that, but I have no doubt theres a market for the H220.

PS.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tinytomlogan*
> I welcome the post from Grouchon, despite the trolls essentially he has just validated my results.


----------



## JackieTran

Heres my two cents; Swiftech, sponser Martin? He's already a respected reviewer and this way, he can support you whether it be openly biased ( :< ) or secretly biased (







)


----------



## Ryld Baenre

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psycow*
> 
> So... its marketed towards first time user, but you`re saying "HEY you can cut the hose", to the same users that "wont" be changing the paste?


I think a "first time user" and "DIY enthusiast" are two completely different markets and they don't seem to be saying that at all. You even quoted those two specific lines differentiating who they were targeting :/ I first time user will have an easier time while if a DIY enthusiast wants to, they can modify tube lengths and add custom blocks/rads.


----------



## JackieTran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> ah perfect could you list the UK distributors that you have?
> And in terms of warranty how would that work? Would I be sending it back to them or will it go directly to say special tech?


Swiftech site, resellers, international. Something along those lines


----------



## psycow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ryld Baenre*
> 
> I think a "first time user" and "DIY enthusiast" are two completely different markets and they don't seem to be saying that at all. You even quoted those two specific lines differentiating who they were targeting :/ I first time user will have an easier time while if a DIY enthusiast wants to, they can modify tube lengths and add custom blocks/rads.


You`re right, but you do see that this product seems confused as to what it wants to be, and so does Swiftech.
I mean if "the vast majority of these products is sold to first time users who do not generally replace the thermal compound", then that has to be the market right? then why even carter to enthusiast,
they mostly fix it them self.

ps. yes my spelling is "off"...


----------



## psycow

double...


----------



## Rustynails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psycow*
> 
> double...


I don't think amhe can explain it for you to understand
Any way seems more like your trolling


----------



## M3TAl

Doesn't seem confused to me. It caters just fine to first time users and DIY enthusiast as well.


----------



## psycow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rustynails*
> 
> I don't think amhe can explain it for you to understand
> Any way seems more like your trolling


its seems like Im trolling, but you dont back that statement up with anything, so please explain to me how Im trolling, or do you even know what "trolling" means?

Ive said I dont understand this product, and clearly I wont be buying it, but I didnt say it was bad or good, just that it wasnt for me, so again please explain to me how Im trolling.


----------



## Neo Zuko

TTLC is good for some things, like product views from all angles, but his reviews are way too long and frankly needlessly so. He is so into the details he misses the forest for the trees.


----------



## Ryld Baenre

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psycow*
> 
> You`re right, but you do see that this product seems confused as to what it wants to be, and so does Swiftech.
> I mean if "the vast majority of these products is sold to first time users who do not generally replace the thermal compound", then that has to be the market right? then why even carter to enthusiast,
> they mostly fix it them self.
> 
> ps. yes my spelling is "off"...


They seem to know exactly what they are selling and who they are targeting.

1. Thermal paste is not pre-applied.
-So, no matter what, a first time user or enthusiast is going to have to apply it themselves. However, the enthusiast (not necessarily someone big into water cooling) may have their preference on what TIM they use.

2. Cutting the tubes + expanding.
-New user=install and go
-Enthusiast can also install and go. They may also want to expand the loop immediately or further down the road and would feel perfectly comfortable cutting the tubes to size them as they wish and add blocks/rads. The pump is extremely capable and will have no problem supporting it. Their CES demo had 2 GPU blocks and 2 rads added onto it.

The unit is perfectly capable of supporting both markets and DIY enthusiast doesn't necessarily mean WC freak because those guys aren't even going to look at an AIO unit like this.


----------



## CTM Audi

I like TTL's case reviews, as he is one of the very few that show how thick the rad space is, and usually spends 30min to an hour going over ever little detail. He is picky about his stuff, but so are many others (me too).

Ive done lots of testing of thousands of products, and nothing is hardly ever as simple as product A is better then product B. You can get pretty large variation in test results for no apparent reason with just about any product. Its fully possible there could be something defective with his kit. Or that whatever he uses to test CPU temps (pretty sure Prime95) ran differently. I know for my self if I let prime run for about 15-20 minutes to test for heat, using the latest version with AVX and testing 14.5GB of ram, Ill get to 65ish with my Zalman cooler. However, there is a certain test around the 30 minute mark that pushes it up to 72ish. The speed in which tests are done vary on all hardware. So its very possible he ran it for X amount of time on the H100i, and then maybe a few seconds or minutes more on the H220, which was long enough for it to reach a test that was more stressful.

Also, we dont know his OC settings. If he uses a certain level of LLC on a certain board, it can change at ranfom. Ive seen with my own stuff, I can have say 1.3V in BIOS, get 1.296V under load 99% of the time, but once in a while, may spike to 1.304V for a very short time period.

There really isnt a way to make everything in a test situation perfect. Having a couple degrees of difference is well within the margin of error.

I beleive his issue with Swiftech rads, is that he thinks its worth the extra $20 or so to get an Nexxos or EX/RX rad, which testing has shown to be more efficient then the MCR series. For the price bracket of an MCR, you wont find a better rad though.

Ive been a Swiftech fan since 07 when I got my first water stuff. They are generally the first name that comes to mind when I want a bang for buck water kit. I do wish Swiftech would release a new higher tier series though, preferably 45mm or so. The Nexxos XT45/UT60 and RX series all perform extremely well with low fan speed (below 1k RPM). Would love to see Swiftech release something to compete with them. There are plenty of cases now that have around 70mm of rad space at the top, which is just perfect for a 45mm rad + 25mm fan.


----------



## psycow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ryld Baenre*
> 
> They seem to know exactly what they are selling and who they are targeting.
> 
> 1. Thermal paste is not pre-applied.
> -So, no matter what, a first time user or enthusiast is going to have to apply it themselves. However, the enthusiast (not necessarily someone big into water cooling) may have their preference on what TIM they use.
> 
> 2. Cutting the tubes + expanding.
> -New user=install and go
> -Enthusiast can also install and go. They may also want to expand the loop immediately or further down the road and would feel perfectly comfortable cutting the tubes to size them as they wish and add blocks/rads. The pump is extremely capable and will have no problem supporting it. Their CES demo had 2 GPU blocks and 2 rads added onto it.
> 
> The unit is perfectly capable of supporting both markets and DIY enthusiast doesn't necessarily mean WC freak because those guys aren't even going to look at an AIO unit like this.


You dont find:
based on the rationale that the vast majority of these products is sold to first time users who do not generally replace the thermal compound
&
As far as the DIY enthusiast user is concerned, our decision was based on the rationale that the H220 tubing can be replaced at will by such users.
conflicting? ok Im cool with that.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psycow*
> 
> You`re right, but you do see that this product seems confused as to what it wants to be, and so does Swiftech.
> I mean if "the vast majority of these products is sold to first time users who do not generally replace the thermal compound", then that has to be the market right? then why even carter to enthusiast,
> they mostly fix it them self.
> 
> ps. yes my spelling is "off"...


The product isn't confused at all. It is an all-in-one unit with expandability. Essentially we have two different type of AIO units, you have some like the asetek and coolit brands that are closed-looped systems, and offer no expandability(without quite a lot of modding and removal of warranties), and than you have AIO like the old h20-220 kits and the Raystorm kit, that have all the pieces there, but you have to put it together(and in the raystorms case, get some distilled water).

This Swiftech unit essentially can function as either one. If you want a CLC unit, it can function as that. You pull it out of the box, throw your thermal paste on, hook up the pump, and screw the fans(and radiator along with them) to your case. Hook up your wires, done and done. However, if you don't like the tube length, or color, you can take them off, buy some different tubing, and still have your warranty, just like the other AIO kits that simply include everything. A company like swiftech caters to enthusiasts because they are enthusiasts. They cater to themselves, build products they want to use, and sell it to all of us. However, they also want to sell to a broader market, and so we have the h220.

The h220 has very little confusion over what it is. It is what you want it to be.

You seem hung up on the tubing part, which I don't understand. Would you rather they cut the tubing back so even less people can use it? The tubing(based on the reviews) appears to be very flexible, if you have slightly too much you can easily move it into a fine position that will look fine in your case without cutting it. I've already seen people in this thread say they have to buy different tubing because they want to place the h220 in front of their case, and it won't reach. It is better to have too much than to little. You can always cut the tubing down, you can't just tape some more on.


----------



## dartuil

its here!! its here im waiting so much finally its here....








http://www.ldlc.com/fiche/PB00144440.html


----------



## psycow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> The product isn't confused at all. It is an all-in-one unit with expandability. Essentially we have two different type of AIO units, you have some like the asetek and coolit brands that are closed-looped systems, and offer no expandability(without quite a lot of modding and removal of warranties), and than you have AIO like the old h20-220 kits and the Raystorm kit, that have all the pieces there, but you have to put it together(and in the raystorms case, get some distilled water).
> 
> This Swiftech unit essentially can function as either one. If you want a CLC unit, it can function as that. You pull it out of the box, throw your thermal paste on, hook up the pump, and screw the fans(and radiator along with them) to your case. Hook up your wires, done and done. However, if you don't like the tube length, or color, you can take them off, buy some different tubing, and still have your warranty, just like the other AIO kits that simply include everything. A company like swiftech caters to enthusiasts because they are enthusiasts. They cater to themselves, build products they want to use, and sell it to all of us. However, they also want to sell to a broader market, and so we have the h220.
> 
> The h220 has very little confusion over what it is. It is what you want it to be.


You`re properly right.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> You seem hung up on the tubing part, which I don't understand. Would you rather they cut the tubing back so even less people can use it? The tubing(based on the reviews) appears to be very flexible, if you have slightly too much you can easily move it into a fine position that will look fine in your case without cutting it. I've already seen people in this thread say they have to buy different tubing because they want to place the h220 in front of their case, and it won't reach. It is better to have too much than to little. You can always cut the tubing down, you can't just tape some more on.


How would less people be able to use it?, "you can just add more hose"








And not Im not hung up on the hosing, Im hung up on saying that the most part of the userbase for this product wont even change paste, but they might change/cut the hose.
And I dont they those statements are for two diffent buyers, but please...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rustynails*
> 
> The reason why your trolling is because it's very simple
> So if you don't understand it's simple because your not to smart


And you`re an idiot to


----------



## Rustynails

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psycow*
> 
> its seems like Im trolling, but you dont back that statement up with anything, so please explain to me how Im trolling, or do you even know what "trolling" means?
> 
> Ive said I dont understand this product, and clearly I wont be buying it, but I didnt say it was bad or good, just that it wasnt for me, so again please explain to me how Im trolling.


The reason why your trolling is because it's very simple
So if you don't understand it's simple because your not to smart


----------



## CTM Audi

http://www.overclockers.com/swiftech-h220-lcs-all-in-one-water-cooler-review

Take a look at the charts in that review.
For their OC results, the H220, TT, and CM kits peform worse at 100% rather then PWM fan control.

Just another example of how testing products isnt perfect, and there is always a margin of error.


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psycow*
> 
> The XSPC kits are not AIO, no way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I might not know alot about WC, but they are not AIO


Sir you are missing the definition of AIO, AIO is all in one(It does not define the way on how its assembled). Do not mix that definition with Closed Loop, which is what Coolit and Astek units are.

just as example heres a quote from rwlabs
Quote:


> Rather quickly XSPC sent out one of their AIO kits and I received it in house within a week. The new RayStorm 750 kits...


source


----------



## psycow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dudewitbow*
> 
> Sir you are missing the definition of AIO, AIO is all in one(It does not define the way on how its assembled). Do not mix that definition with Closed Loop, which is what Coolit and Astek units are.


I stand corrected, thank you kind sir


----------



## Ryld Baenre

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psycow*
> 
> The XSPC kits are not AIO, no way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I might not know alot about WC, but they are not AIO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But you`re properly right about the rest of it


"might" is the key word. They have the option if they so desire and are comfortable enough with it. You don't with the other closed loop coolers on the market. They are catering perfect to the market they wish to target, first time user to enthusiast, not obsessed water cooling freak.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> http://www.overclockers.com/swiftech-h220-lcs-all-in-one-water-cooler-review
> 
> Take a look at the charts in that review.
> For their OC results, the H220, TT, and CM kits peform worse at 100% rather then PWM fan control.
> 
> Just another example of how testing products isnt perfect, and there is always a margin of error.


Eh, that test is using two different systems. For straight comparisons its a fairly bad review, using two different processors makes it extremely flakey for results. That was a first out of the box test, they were just trying to get some actual data out. I kind of wish they'd go back and do a direct comparison now that they have had time, but it is what it is.


----------



## CTM Audi

Did Swiftech ever show the system they built that had the two 680s and motherboard cooled by the H220, while running Heaven or some kind of GPU bench/game? In the vids on the page for the unit, the CPU is the only thing being tested. If the cards were being stressed, the OC would have to be dropped, or temps would be way higher then the 80ish it was at.

Id like to know how it does, or see it play a game with two cards in the loop without another rad added. Dont even care if its all stock, just want to see if it manages to stay quiet with comfortable temps.

I really want to get one, but dont think it will handle two 670s and a 2500K while remaining on the quiet setting.


----------



## Ryld Baenre

^^^They way they manage the tubing in that is a good idea, hadn't even thought of that. I will be installing it like that. Looks a lot cleaner than having tubes snake in front of the rest of the components.


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Eh, that test is using two different systems. For straight comparisons its a fairly bad review, using two different processors makes it extremely flakey for results. That was a first out of the box test, they were just trying to get some actual data out. I kind of wish they'd go back and do a direct comparison now that they have had time, but it is what it is.


Even still they would be using the same system for each cooler seperatly, so that shouldnt effect running hotter at 100% then PWM.

Was just using that as an example to the problems with trying to sastisfy readers with a "proper" review, because there is no such thing. There are far too many uncontrolable variables to consider when testing, especailly cooling products.


----------



## CTM Audi

double post


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> Even still they would be using the same system for each cooler seperatly, so that shouldnt effect running hotter at 100% then PWM.
> 
> Was just using that as an example to the problems with trying to sastisfy readers with a "proper" review, because there is no such thing. There are far too many uncontrolable variables to consider when testing, especailly cooling products.


I see what you mean by better in pwm rather then 100% but it's only 1c which is well with in margin of error


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psycow*
> 
> Im sorry but how is that "disrespectful", afaik Tom dosnt work for Swiftech, his a review, its his job to tell his viewer base if theres a better product on the marked, or do you just want reviewer to agree with corp policy?


I think you misunderstood. TTL said do not buy Swiftech Rads while doing a swiftech review. He did not mention to buy anything else. Has nothing to do about agreeing. He did not give a reason to why, just do not buy.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> I use the same nick on oc3d as here so you can check what I have said there
> 
> I think the reviews you have linked on the swiftech site are misleading due to the testers using different cpu's and cases to test the h220 and h100i


I think that you are referring to the CES presentations, and I'd like to clarify that we practically had no other choice but to do it that way because of what we wanted to show: comparing the operating noise and temperature between 4 similarly built systems running at the same frequency in the limited amount of time allowed by the format of this venue. You must realize that we couldn't demo each media representative by assembling disassembling the kits 4 times. It would have taken hours. Of course we knew that the kits would be later on tested in a proper and scientific format. Thus, you can be rest assured that there was absolutely no intention to mislead anyone in any way shape or form


----------



## ez12a

I was trying to research Swiftech Rads on TTL's site...couldnt find exactly why he didnt like them. There are no other articles or reviews on the site regarding swiftech radiators.


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> I see what you mean by better in pwm rather then 100% but it's only 1c which is well with in margin of error


Thats my point









All this flak is being given over one test showing the H220 lose by a couple degrees, which is well within the margin of error.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> I think you misunderstood. TTL said do not buy Swiftech Rads while doing a swiftech review. He did not mention to buy anything else. Has nothing to do about agreeing. He did not give a reason to why, just do not buy.


I explained in my post a few pages back what I beleive he ment by it. He had talked about it before, and probably just assumed if you were watching the review, you had seen his other reviews and didnt take the time to explain.


----------



## CTM Audi

Qouting my self, post got mixed in a dispute a couple pages ago.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> I like TTL's case reviews, as he is one of the very few that show how thick the rad space is, and usually spends 30min to an hour going over ever little detail. He is picky about his stuff, but so are many others (me too).
> 
> Ive done lots of testing of thousands of products, and nothing is hardly ever as simple as product A is better then product B. You can get pretty large variation in test results for no apparent reason with just about any product. Its fully possible there could be something defective with his kit. Or that whatever he uses to test CPU temps (pretty sure Prime95) ran differently. I know for my self if I let prime run for about 15-20 minutes to test for heat, using the latest version with AVX and testing 14.5GB of ram, Ill get to 65ish with my Zalman cooler. However, there is a certain test around the 30 minute mark that pushes it up to 72ish. The speed in which tests are done vary on all hardware. So its very possible he ran it for X amount of time on the H100i, and then maybe a few seconds or minutes more on the H220, which was long enough for it to reach a test that was more stressful.
> 
> Also, we dont know his OC settings. If he uses a certain level of LLC on a certain board, it can change at ranfom. Ive seen with my own stuff, I can have say 1.3V in BIOS, get 1.296V under load 99% of the time, but once in a while, may spike to 1.304V for a very short time period.
> 
> There really isnt a way to make everything in a test situation perfect. Having a couple degrees of difference is well within the margin of error.
> 
> I beleive his issue with Swiftech rads, is that he thinks its worth the extra $20 or so to get an Nexxos or EX/RX rad, which testing has shown to be more efficient then the MCR series. For the price bracket of an MCR, you wont find a better rad though.
> 
> Ive been a Swiftech fan since 07 when I got my first water stuff. They are generally the first name that comes to mind when I want a bang for buck water kit. I do wish Swiftech would release a new higher tier series though, preferably 45mm or so. The Nexxos XT45/UT60 and RX series all perform extremely well with low fan speed (below 1k RPM). Would love to see Swiftech release something to compete with them. There are plenty of cases now that have around 70mm of rad space at the top, which is just perfect for a 45mm rad + 25mm fan.


----------



## BrotherJoseph

Just reorganized my HafX in anticipation of my H220. I was going to add my gpu to the loop with a Komodo 7970 block but it seems to be impossible to order, NCIX says the supplier has discontinued it. Any info?


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> I think that you are referring to the CES presentations, and I'd like to clarify that we practically had no other choice but to do it that way because of what we wanted to show: comparing the operating noise and temperature between 4 similarly built systems running at the same frequency in the limited amount of time allowed by the format of this venue. You must realize that we couldn't demo each media representative by assembling disassembling the kits 4 times. It would have taken hours. Of course we knew that the kits would be later on tested in a proper and scientific format. Thus, you can be rest assured that there was absolutely no intention to mislead anyone in any way shape or form


No I wasn't on about the CES I understand the limitations there it's the links to other sites e'g Compared to Corsair's H100i: http://www.xcpus.com/reviews/corsair-h100i-vs-the-swiftech-h220 they use a different case, cpu, motherboard etc. now as your linking it from your site I would hope that it would be a legit review. this is not the only link you have that does this


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BrotherJoseph*
> 
> Just reorganized my HafX in anticipation of my H220. I was going to add my gpu to the loop with a Komodo 7970 block but it seems to be impossible to order, NCIX says the supplier has discontinued it. Any info?


It is not discontinued. NCIX is not the best place to buy watercooling, selection is limited. As long your 7970 is reference then you are good. KOMODO is my favorite for the ATI cards for blocks.
Wish they did more for Nvidia cards.
http://www.swiftech.com/KOMODO-HD7900.aspx


----------



## DSgamer64

So I am curious as to know what future proofing Swiftech is offering with the H220. My Corsair H80 died on me a few weeks ago and I am not planning on using the replacement that I get from RMA. Out of the box is there a guarantee that the H220 will work with Intel's upcoming Haswell/Broadwell which will be operating in Intel's new socket 1150 format? Or are early adopters going to have to buy a new mounting bracket to fit the new socket when Haswell comes out? It seems that while AMD is sticking with the same socket type for the next couple of CPU iterations, Intel is once again going to be changing their socket. So if I choose to buy an H220, am I going to have to buy a separate bracket when I choose to upgrade to Intel's next socket generation. I am currently on LGA 1155 and am looking at upgrading next year when Broadwell is out and there is a die shrink, but I want to pick up the H220 now so I don't have to use a lousy stock cooler.


----------



## WarMacheen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BrotherJoseph*
> 
> Just reorganized my HafX in anticipation of my H220. I was going to add my gpu to the loop with a Komodo 7970 block but it seems to be impossible to order, NCIX says the supplier has discontinued it. Any info?


I concur, about the Komodo, would like to get 3 of them in the near future.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> ^
> 
> +1
> 
> I also kinda laughed at the fact that he kept saying that "if you are going to drain the fluid and add a gpu block, you might as well go full custom.
> 
> That is only true if money is not a factor. A FULL CUSTOM kit with a cpu block, gpu block, two 240 rads, a HIGH QUALITY pump and reservoir, tubes and fittings, and fans you are EASILY EASILY looking at around $550, not including the RIDICULOUS shipping charges some of these companies charge lol.
> 
> With the H220 at $140 plus a $70 gpu block and $70 rad plus tubing and fittings, you are looking at under $300, call it $330 shipped. Not sure about you, but I don't see a full custom, $550+ water cooling setup being THAT MUCH better than the above described H220 expanded setup. Sure, it might be a couple degrees cooler, but I don't see it being better overall.


Another thing that got me was him having the balls to say that the fans of the stock H100i are silent, without even mentioning that the Helix fans are way more silent compared to those even at full speed!


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psycow*
> 
> You dont find:
> based on the rationale that the vast majority of these products is sold to first time users who do not generally replace the thermal compound
> &
> As far as the DIY enthusiast user is concerned, our decision was based on the rationale that the H220 tubing can be replaced at will by such users.
> conflicting? ok Im cool with that.


Why aren't you including what Gabe mentions about giving first time users the ability to mount it in the front of the case (top and almost any other position in a case), which you can't do with an H100i for a lot of mid / full size cases because of it's short hose.

Wouldn't a first time user benefit from having that many more options vesus being stuck with less choices?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DSgamer64*
> 
> So I am curious as to know what future proofing Swiftech is offering with the H220. My Corsair H80 died on me a few weeks ago and I am not planning on using the replacement that I get from RMA. Out of the box is there a guarantee that the H220 will work with Intel's upcoming Haswell/Broadwell which will be operating in Intel's new socket 1150 format? Or are early adopters going to have to buy a new mounting bracket to fit the new socket when Haswell comes out? It seems that while AMD is sticking with the same socket type for the next couple of CPU iterations, Intel is once again going to be changing their socket. So if I choose to buy an H220, am I going to have to buy a separate bracket when I choose to upgrade to Intel's next socket generation. I am currently on LGA 1155 and am looking at upgrading next year when Broadwell is out and there is a die shrink, but I want to pick up the H220 now so I don't have to use a lousy stock cooler.


Socket 1150 is not changing how it will be mounting it will still use 1155/1156 mounts. Its really not a new socket, just die shrinkage.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psycow*
> 
> You`re properly right.
> How would less people be able to use it?, "you can just add more hose"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And not Im not hung up on the hosing, Im hung up on saying that the most part of the userbase for this product wont even change paste, but they might change/cut the hose.
> And I dont they those statements are for two diffent buyers, but please...
> And you`re an idiot to


I think you have to look at the hose being that long gives you the option to place the rad in front of the case which a lot of the AIO/CLC units can't do because of the short hoses. The option of cutting it is just that, an option if you opt to do it.

As a first time user wouldn't that be more of a benefit, having all those options versus having a short hose and then losing your warranty once you change it out to fit into your system?


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BrotherJoseph*
> 
> Just reorganized my HafX in anticipation of my H220. I was going to add my gpu to the loop with a Komodo 7970 block but it seems to be impossible to order, NCIX says the supplier has discontinued it. Any info?


I'm waiting on the h320 to drop it in my haf x! Cant wait Hurry up!!! Bram and CO!!!


----------



## BrotherJoseph

Yeah I have started to notice their lack luster water cooling selection. They just delisted Swfitech's triple Quiet Power rad right when I was getting interested in it








I have a MSI 7950 TF3 with a 7970 PCB that I want to shut up with water cooling. But seeing as Swiftech is out of the 7970 blocks right now, and that their shipping for me is over 50 bucks, I am wondering if I should save over $100 and use Swiftech's universal block or just find another full cover block. Going to sift through this thread later and decide.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BrotherJoseph*
> 
> Yeah I have started to notice their lack luster water cooling selection. They just delisted Swfitech's triple Quiet Power rad right when I was getting interested in it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a MSI 7950 TF3 with a 7970 PCB that I want to shut up with water cooling. But seeing as Swiftech is out of the 7970 blocks right now, and that their shipping for me is over 50 bucks, I am wondering if I should save over $100 and use Swiftech's universal block or just find another full cover block. Going to sift through this thread later and decide.


Contact Swiftech directly and see what they can do to help you about shipping to Canada.

Most places in the US have basic shipping to Canada for about $20-30
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=34383


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BrotherJoseph*
> 
> Just reorganized my HafX in anticipation of my H220. I was going to add my gpu to the loop with a Komodo 7970 block but it seems to be impossible to order, NCIX says the supplier has discontinued it. Any info?


As another forum member stated, these water blocks aren't discontinued. We expect to get them toward the end of March. I know that seems a ways off, but look at it this way; it will give you time to prepare for them once we do get them in.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> I think you have to look at the hose being that long gives you the option to place the rad in front of the case which a lot of the AIO/CLC units can't do because of the short hoses. The option of cutting it is just that, an option if you opt to do it.
> 
> As a first time user wouldn't that be more of a benefit, having all those options versus having a short hose and then losing your warranty once you change it out to fit into your system?


Only thing is that you don't lose your warantee if you open up the H220








.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

^ Plus this! I forgot to add this bit to my response!


----------



## BrotherJoseph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> As another forum member stated, these water blocks aren't discontinued. We expect to get them toward the end of March. I know that seems a ways off, but look at it this way; it will give you time to prepare for them once we do get them in.


But I'm prepared nowwwww








As much as I love the Komodo, that is a god damn longtime haha. I might give Dazmode.com a shot and get the Koolance or EK block. I would get the Heatkiller but, like everything thing else I want, IT'S OUT OF STOCK







People, stop buying **** haha.

But anyways, NCIX shipped my extra tubing, coolant, and fittings without the Komodo today. Should be here tomorrow.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Sorry I've been reading slowly though the pages since I posted.
I don't want to defend a reviewer that's been unfair in his judgement. However I should stat e s ome hthing: as an avid reviewer myself, having done a lot ofif reviews, price plays a huge factor in my rating of a product. If earphones that are worth £300 are mildly better than those priced at £50 - then that earphone will get a negative looking review. Ie. The grado gr8 earphones.
Simply put if he increased his review to gold over silver due to price being shown, that's understandable.
I'm no pro when it comes to pc's, but I've been unimpressed by my Antec 920 - so if I manage to find a buyer willing to pay £50 for mine I'll place an order for the h220


----------



## Nilsom

hi
Look what just arrived at home!!
hug

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/826/dscn0222y.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/dscn0223ur.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/248/dscn0225n.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/515/dscn0226v.jpg/


----------



## kevindd992002

Now that's a big packaging! That would cost me a very high shipping cost if I order from the US.


----------



## Equilibrium

now i'm jealous.


----------



## spikexp

Linux unboxing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gxbXZSUje8

Sad about the first comment "Well according to TTL's review, this thing isn't all﻿ that good..."


----------



## Julsmba

Here are some pics of the Swiftech H220 (Portugal)


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spikexp*
> 
> Linux unboxing
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gxbXZSUje8
> 
> Sad about the first comment "Well according to TTL's review, this thing isn't all﻿ that good..."


I love Linus!
Can't wait to hear his review.

As for TTL - could someone link it - I have no idea who they are lol


----------



## Julsmba

Here are some pics of the Swiftech H220 (Portugal)


----------



## Julsmba

sorry for double post


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Julsmba*
> 
> sorry for double post


Nice pics man!
How's the performance







?


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spikexp*
> 
> Linux unboxing
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gxbXZSUje8
> 
> Sad about the first comment "Well according to TTL's review, this thing isn't all﻿ that good..."


I've never watched anything of his but just looked at his kraken test and he changes the fans so to me that's not a valid test of the product, as it's not what's in the box.
swiftech have mentioned tom changing the thermal paste to me changing the fans can make a hell of a lot bigger difference


----------



## spikexp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> I've never watched anything of his but just looked at his kraken test and he changes the fans so to me that's not a valid test of the product, as it's not what's in the box.
> swiftech have mentioned tom changing the thermal paste to me changing the fans can make a hell of a lot bigger difference


Even more with this comment
Quote:


> Exclusive forum information: Just buy the H220 and call it a day. Replace the fans though. We tested with stock fans and Noctuas and there was a 20 degree difference at about the same noise levels


... I don't know what to say...


----------



## Roadkill95

did Tom say that? 20c degree by just switching fans?!!!


----------



## Neo Zuko

I'm defiantly waiting for the H320 myself, you can count on that sale Swiftech.


----------



## Thrasher1016

Can we just say "Trolls and peons alike" on YouTube and call it a day?









Thanks - T


----------



## Avonosac

There is no way there is a 20c difference with different, slightly more powerful fans.

The shred of credibility he might have had left with me is completely gone.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> There is no way there is a 20c difference with different, slightly more powerful fans.
> 
> The shred of credibility he might have had left with me is completely gone.


Linus said that after some googling.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> There is no way there is a 20c difference with different, slightly more powerful fans.
> 
> The shred of credibility he might have had left with me is completely gone.


I doubt you'd get a 20c difference if you used some of the cheapest 120 fans you could find. And noctua's cost as 1/3 of the price of the whole set up. Just a lol comment.


----------



## Thrasher1016

So I'm beginning to question whither that will fit on my upcoming Mini-ITX mobo... it's kinda large...









Hmm.









Thanks - T


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrasher1016*
> 
> So I'm beginning to question whither that will fit on my upcoming Mini-ITX mobo... it's kinda large...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks - T


I'm not sure which case you are talking about, but I've done paper measurements and it should easily fit in my prodigy. (huge though)

You might be one of the ones who would need to cut the tubing a bit, if it gets so long its unmanageable for you.


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> I'm not sure which case you are talking about, but I've done paper measurements and it should easily fit in my prodigy. (huge though)
> 
> You might be one of the ones who would need to cut the tubing a bit, if it gets so long its unmanageable for you.


Oh, I'm not worried about the case (New Caselabs S3 Mercury prototype), I'm worried about the space on the MOBO itself, with the block / pump unit's size.

Thanks - T


----------



## WALSRU

These pumps don't overhang the mounting holes so I'd be shocked if you had a mounting issue. Planning on putting this on an ASRock z77e-itx which has a very close CPU to PCI distance and can't fit a lot of air coolers.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrasher1016*
> 
> Oh, I'm not worried about the case (New Caselabs S3 Mercury prototype), I'm worried about the space on the MOBO itself, with the block / pump unit's size.
> 
> Thanks - T


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> These pumps don't overhang the mounting holes so I'd be shocked if you had a mounting issue. Planning on putting this on an ASRock z77e-itx which has a very close CPU to PCI distance and can't fit a lot of air coolers.


This, it looks like all of us are putting it on a Z77E-ITX, so I would be shocked if it wouldn't fit.


----------



## JackieTran

Wait, why wasnt linus sent a testing kit?


----------



## WALSRU

Linus uploaded an H220 unboxing video earlier? I watched it this morning while I ate my cereal, he seemed really excited about it


----------



## Equilibrium

got a question regarding the mounting of the h220's rad.
i'm going to hang the rad at the top mount of my prodigy, there should by enough space for that.

but the fans... should i mount them under the rad (so that the push the air through the rad) or above (sucking)?
i guess both options will be available? orist there a no go?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> Linus said that after some googling.


Linus was the one who said that changing the fans would yield a 20C difference?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spikexp*
> 
> Even more with this comment
> ... I don't know what to say...


You forgot to put the tongue smiley at the end of Linus' quote, which would indicate absolutely that he was joking...


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> Linus was the one who said that changing the fans would yield a 20C difference?


He was joking, hence the







at the end of his post on his forum.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Equilibrium*
> 
> got a question regarding the mounting of the h220's rad.
> i'm going to hang the rad at the top mount of my prodigy, there should by enough space for that.
> 
> but the fans... should i mount them under the rad (so that the push the air through the rad) or above (sucking)?
> i guess both options will be available? orist there a no go?


I would mount them above the rad sucking air into the case.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Equilibrium*
> 
> got a question regarding the mounting of the h220's rad.
> i'm going to hang the rad at the top mount of my prodigy, there should by enough space for that.
> 
> but the fans... should i mount them under the rad (so that the push the air through the rad) or above (sucking)?
> i guess both options will be available? orist there a no go?


As long as you have at least one case fan somewhere mounted as an exhaust then you will get better performance with the fans sucking air from the outside and pushing down and through the radiator.


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> This, it looks like all of us are putting it on a Z77E-ITX, so I would be shocked if it wouldn't fit.


Yeah... seems all three of us are following the "great minds" paradigm here... ASRock Z77E-ITX in the new S3 Mercury...









Appreciate the thoughts there, having not done a SFF build before, space and cleanliness are a concern.

Thanks - T


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrasher1016*
> 
> Yeah... seems all three of us are following the "great minds" paradigm here... ASRock Z77E-ITX in the new S3 Mercury...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Appreciate the thoughts there, having not done a SFF build before, space and cleanliness are a concern.
> 
> Thanks - T


We are rocking white prodigy's but, as long as you have the space for it, the CPU mount shouldn't be an issue at all.


----------



## Oranuro

Will purchase the H220 maybe in the coming weeks but not willing to give up my dual 230mm top mounted fans so will have to front mount it. Also those stock fans are coming off soon as I get it.


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> We are rocking white prodigy's but, as long as you have the space for it, the CPU mount shouldn't be an issue at all.


Yeah, I meant the board only... sorry... Improper grammar to convey the intended message.









Thanks - T


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oranuro*
> 
> Will purchase the H220 maybe in the coming weeks but not willing to give up my dual 230mm top mounted fans so will have to front mount it. Also those stock fans are coming off soon as I get it.


Just curious, what are you planning on replacing them with? They are rather high performing fans, unless you are replacing them with AP-15's or similar you probably won't get better performance.


----------



## psikeiro

For those replacing the fans when they get them, let me know and i'll take them off of your hands


----------



## Sozin

I assume this isn't on track to be on sale this week? I haven't seen it in stock anywhere yet.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sozin*
> 
> I assume this isn't on track to be on sale this week? I haven't seen it in stock anywhere yet.


Correct, our shipment is scheduled to arrive early next week - it should be available from most US retailers sometime next week.
The EU shipment arrived earlier and the product is available in Europe now.


----------



## Sozin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Correct, our shipment is scheduled to arrive early next week - it should be available from most US retailers sometime next week.
> The EU shipment arrived earlier and the product is available in Europe now.


Very cool, does that include Amazon?


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> For those replacing the fans when they get them, let me know and i'll take them off of your hands


Yeah, no joke... I don't really get that... I mean they design them to work with their exact radiator style and their own components. I'm using theirs, even if they don't have green led-lit ones!

Thanks - T


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sozin*
> 
> Very cool, does that include Amazon?


I have seen not a slim hair of this product on Amazon at ALL. Not a pre-order screen, not a hint anywhere. I hope they will have it!

Thanks - T


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Just curious, what are you planning on replacing them with? They are rather high performing fans, unless you are replacing them with AP-15's or similar you probably won't get better performance.


I am not sure what I am going to do yet, but my new build will be red and black theme. I have a bunch of xilince 120mm pwm and non pwm fans. I was thinking of swapping the stock fans out with the pwm's. Max rpm is 1,500 though compared to the 1,800 on the stock fans. I may leave it stock, test temps, and then swap out the fans and test temps. If there isnt a huge difference I will keep the xilence fans in there. Installation is easy enough that taking the rad up and down is easy.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sozin*
> 
> Very cool, does that include Amazon?


We haven't worked with Amazon until now, so it may take more time and I'm sorry about that.


----------



## Tom Thumb

I'd like to see the top 3 dual 120mm units tested in the same system with the same fans, at optimal cooling settings performance wise. Those units being the H220, the H100i, and the Water 2.0 Pro. This would tell us which unit performs the best. Then you could decide whether or not to swap the fans out for something that moves more air, or something that is quieter. Depending on what your looking to achieve!


----------



## msgclb

I'm sitting here waiting for the lion to roar and the slow boat to arrive from China with my Swiftech H220 in a shopping list that is waiting to go to the shopping cart and I've come up with what is probably a dumb question but I'm going to ask it anyway.









The question is about the 8-Way PM Splitter box. Can I also use it as a power source for some 3-pin of course non PM fans that will be in my case?


----------



## Pure2sin

Only 1 day left in the month of February. I wonder if they are going to have to change the:

"Price: $139.95 - ETA End of February" to read something else. lol








.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *msgclb*
> 
> I'm sitting here waiting for the lion to roar and the slow boat to arrive from China with my Swiftech H220 in a shopping list that is waiting to go to the shopping cart and I've come up with what is probably a dumb question but I'm going to ask it anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question is about the 8-Way PM Splitter box. Can I also use it as a power source for some 3-pin of course non PM fans that will be in my case?


Yes you can. They will just run at the full 12 volts.


----------



## Sozin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> We haven't worked with Amazon until now, so it may take more time and I'm sorry about that.


No worries, just was curious because I love that two day shipping. Any word if Microcenter is going to carry this next week?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sozin*
> 
> No worries, just was curious because I love that two day shipping. Any word if Microcenter is going to carry this next week?


Microcenter will have these toward the end next week.


----------



## mcnumpty23

starting to show up in the uk now

http://www.overclock.co.uk/product/Swiftech-H220-Compact-Drive-II-CPU-Water-Cooler_45550.html

though the price seems a bit high?


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *msgclb*
> 
> I'm sitting here waiting for the lion to roar and the slow boat to arrive from China with my Swiftech H220 in a shopping list that is waiting to go to the shopping cart and I've come up with what is probably a dumb question but I'm going to ask it anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question is about the 8-Way PM Splitter box. Can I also use it as a power source for some 3-pin of course non PM fans that will be in my case?


I was wondering the same thing, and I think I know the answer but want confirmation. My switch 810 comes with a similar adapter but it doesnt control pwm fans. I could just use this adapter in place of the NZXT swith 810 adapter.


----------



## Kelt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> starting to show up in the uk now
> 
> http://www.overclock.co.uk/product/Swiftech-H220-Compact-Drive-II-CPU-Water-Cooler_45550.html
> 
> though the price seems a bit high?


£106.99 ex delivery at Specialtech.


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kelt*
> 
> £106.99 ex delivery at Specialtech.


but not in stock until the 8th of march at specialtech last time i looked


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> I was wondering the same thing, and I think I know the answer but want confirmation. My switch 810 comes with a similar adapter but it doesnt control pwm fans. I could just use this adapter in place of the NZXT swith 810 adapter.


You can't control none pwm fans by pwm, just the way it works. It will power them just fine though.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> but not in stock until the 8th of march at specialtech last time i looked


They did have some they went quick


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> You can't control none pwm fans by pwm, just the way it works. It will power them just fine though.


I knew the first part, but wanted to confirm the second part of your post. I guess I could use both of the adapters which would work nice for wire manement. The PWM's would have to go to the swiftech splitter, and the non pwm's could go to whichever one is the shortest/cleanest run. Hmmmmm. This could work out nicely.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Microcenter will have these toward the end next week.


And so will I!









They better be up online for sale on Monday :|


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> They did have some they went quick


guess if you are not fast then you are last

not to worry i am not in a rush--still waiting to see some more reviews to see how this compares to my h80 before deciding

but certainly impressed by the support level from swiftech employees on here


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> And so will I!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They better be up online for sale on Monday :|


I retract my statement regarding Microcenter. I misunderstood the information I received and we have no definitive information on when Microcenter will be carrying these kits. Microcenter will carry these kits, but we have no definitive information as to when. I'm sorry for the misinformation and I'll do better to post the correct information in the future.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I retract my statement regarding Microcenter. I misunderstood the information I received and we have no definitive information on when Microcenter will be carrying these kits. Microcenter will carry these kits, but we have no definitive information as to when. I'm sorry for the misinformation and I'll do better to post the correct information in the future.


Backing down from a little ole pitchfork already?


----------



## justanoldman

So as of now, there is no confirmed place to order the H220 in the U.S. that has a return policy. I will be happy to buy two, but it sounds like it will be awhile before I can purchase them.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I retract my statement regarding Microcenter. I misunderstood the information I received and we have no definitive information on when Microcenter will be carrying these kits. Microcenter will carry these kits, but we have no definitive information as to when. I'm sorry for the misinformation and I'll do better to post the correct information in the future.


we don't ever forgive misinformation, only a give away will make things better


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> we don't ever forgive misinformation, only a give away will make things better


Very funny.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> we don't ever forgive misinformation, only a give away will make things better


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Very funny.


I'll settle for free shipping for my order on monday


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> So as of now, there is no confirmed place to order the H220 in the U.S. that has a return policy. I will be happy to buy two, but it sounds like it will be awhile before I can purchase them.


You will be able to order them directly from Swiftech.


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> You will be able to order them directly from Swiftech.


Am I also correct in assuming that since FrozenCPU shows the item but also a "Not yet released / In stock, End of February" note, that they will have them as planned?

Thanks - T


----------



## WALSRU

I'd rather buy from Swiftech anyway. If FrozenCPU sells something for the same price as the manufacturer I'd rather see them get the whole amount. They're quick too, my Elite kit went out same day!


----------



## justanoldman

Sorry, I should have been more clear: a reseller that let's you return a product in the first 30 days without extra cost or issues, as in Amazon or Micro Center. Neither Swiftech nor Frozen has that.


----------



## Avonosac

Yea for what it is worth, between stephen, bram and gabe, I want to see Swiftech get all of the value of this purchase. As long as they post here and let us know when we can click these at he site.


----------



## Pure2sin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> You will be able to order them directly from Swiftech.


Is that as of tomorrow?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pure2sin*
> 
> Is that as of tomorrow?


No, that's as of when we get them and have them available for purchase.


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Yea for what it is worth, between stephen, bram and gabe, I want to see Swiftech get all of the value of this purchase. As long as they post here and let us know when we can click these at he site.


Most of the time I'm a cheap git, but....
In this case, I think I would agree.









Thanks - T


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Yea for what it is worth, between stephen, bram and gabe, I want to see Swiftech get all of the value of this purchase. As long as they post here and let us know when we can click these at he site.


Thank you for that, and we will let all of you know when they are available for purchase. Thank you all for your patience and understanding.


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Thank you for that, and we will let all of you know when they are available for purchase. Thank you all for your patience and understanding.


Ain't a thing... CaseLabs has moved the S3 release date a full three weeks away for some last-minute details, so timing is not a concern.










Thanks - T


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Thank you for that, and we will let all of you know when they are available for purchase. Thank you all for your patience and understanding.


I'm a patient person...as long as I will be able to get it by the second week of March. If not I'll have to wait quite awhile to buy it, as I wouldn't be able to install it anyways.

I'm going to be real sad if that ends up happening.


----------



## Pure2sin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> No, that's as of when we get them and have them available for purchase.


Under promise and over deliver.

Not being a jerk but seems like a lot of businesses do the opposite these days.

I hope this thing comes out sooner than later because I would like one too.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> We haven't worked with Amazon until now, so it may take more time and I'm sorry about that.


Unlike in the US - a LOT of shoppers here in the UK will buy from Amazon.
I would highly suggest creating a link with them









You can give me a small cut of the profits after


----------



## Oranuro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Just curious, what are you planning on replacing them with? They are rather high performing fans, unless you are replacing them with AP-15's or similar you probably won't get better performance.


That I will figure out when the time comes.My concern isn't the performance of the fans, it's the noise those fans produce at moderate speeds.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oranuro*
> 
> That I will figure out when the time comes.My concern isn't the performance of the fans, it's the noise those fans produce at moderate speeds.


if you're worried about that then lose your worry


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Unlike in the US - a LOT of shoppers here in the UK will buy from Amazon.
> I would highly suggest creating a link with them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can give me a small cut of the profits after


Unlike in the US?!?!?!?!









Would... would you like to see my Amazon Prime order list for the past year? Lord, even the last 30 DAYS has been at LEAST 18 separate orders, shipped either to me, my work (for work) or my family... And this goes on constantly, all year long, same pace!








Amazon is IT for me, I price match WAL-MART against them for frying pans, I'll buy pens and pencils from Amazon...

I was only speaking to this specific product, as they have been very kind and responsive to us here, and we want them to see full profit.
Here, it's about Swiftech and their product, not who I can get it cheapest from. It's very rare that I take that attitude, especially in this economic climate...

I mean, I'm the one that originally asked about Amz, anyway...









Thanks - T


----------



## Sozin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrasher1016*
> 
> Unlike in the US?!?!?!?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would... would you like to see my Amazon Prime order list for the past year? Lord, even the last 30 DAYS has been at LEAST 18 separate orders, shipped either to me, my work (for work) or my family... And this goes on constantly, all year long, same pace!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon is IT for me, I price match WAL-MART against them for frying pans, I'll buy pens and pencils from Amazon...
> 
> I was only speaking to this specific product, as they have been very kind and responsive to us here, and we want them to see full profit.
> Here, it's about Swiftech and their product, not who I can get it cheapest from. It's very rare that I take that attitude, especially in this economic climate...
> 
> I mean, I'm the one that originally asked about Amz, anyway...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks - T


I tend to do just about all my shopping from Amazon as well, Prime shipping is fantastic. I'd rather buy from Amazon than from Swiftech because I'm sure the shipping cost from Swiftech is fairly high (note, never ordered from Swiftech before, just an assumption).

It's a shame that there isn't a real ETA for this though, especially if it's supposed to be shipping next week.


----------



## iceman0C

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrasher1016*
> 
> Unlike in the US?!?!?!?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would... would you like to see my Amazon Prime order list for the past year? Lord, even the last 30 DAYS has been at LEAST 18 separate orders, shipped either to me, my work (for work) or my family... And this goes on constantly, all year long, same pace!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon is IT for me, I price match WAL-MART against them for frying pans, I'll buy pens and pencils from Amazon...
> 
> I was only speaking to this specific product, as they have been very kind and responsive to us here, and we want them to see full profit.
> Here, it's about Swiftech and their product, not who I can get it cheapest from. It's very rare that I take that attitude, especially in this economic climate...
> 
> I mean, I'm the one that originally asked about Amz, anyway...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks - T


I know the feeling mate ... my order list can probably rival yours


----------



## justanoldman

Since tone cannot be conveyed via the internet, let me try to say this a little better. There is no question the support of Swiftech on this thread and via email has been second to none. I have my builds on hold waiting to purchase this product. If the H220 can be expanded by the average home enthusiast to cool a gpu with an additional rad/fans, without measurably degrading cooling performance, I expect it to be a very popular product.

Having just purchased a lot of components for two builds, I was surprised to find so many of them with a problem of one sort or another. A quick trip to Micro Center for an easy return/exchange, or a completely cost and hassle free return/exchange with Amazon makes me personally leery of restrictive return policies. That, however, has nothing to do with the product itself or the support of the company's staff.

The return/exchange policies of Frozen vs. Amazon is ludicrous, Amazon is so easy to work with that I always check them first.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrasher1016*
> 
> Unlike in the US?!?!?!?!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would... would you like to see my Amazon Prime order list for the past year? Lord, even the last 30 DAYS has been at LEAST 18 separate orders, shipped either to me, my work (for work) or my family... And this goes on constantly, all year long, same pace!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazon is IT for me, I price match WAL-MART against them for frying pans, I'll buy pens and pencils from Amazon...
> 
> I was only speaking to this specific product, as they have been very kind and responsive to us here, and we want them to see full profit.
> Here, it's about Swiftech and their product, not who I can get it cheapest from. It's very rare that I take that attitude, especially in this economic climate...
> 
> I mean, I'm the one that originally asked about Amz, anyway...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks - T


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sozin*
> 
> I tend to do just about all my shopping from Amazon as well, Prime shipping is fantastic. It's a shame that there isn't a rea ETA for this though, especially if it's supposed to be shipping next week.


Oh don't get me wrong a lot of people in the US shop from Amazon USA.
But the thing is, when I was in the USA there was FAR MORE EMPHASIS on shopping in-store rather than online.
Here, due to the internet (including clothing) - people order from home.
More so, in the USA I found prices cheaper in FRYS (in store) rather than on amazon (online) - that was in California.

I do love the attitude that Swiftech are taking with customer service here.
I really love it when a company does that.
Even though I don't NEED better cooling, nor a dual rad, nor better temps (de-lidded) I appreciate certain companies and products.
So that's why I want to now get the H220.
Not ONLY based on performance I've seen reviewed online, but due to the overall package I'm receiving.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Since tone cannot be conveyed via the internet, let me try to say this a little better. There is no question the support of Swiftech on this thread and via email has been second to none. I have my builds on hold waiting to purchase this product. If the H220 can be expanded by the average home enthusiast to cool a gpu with an additional rad/fans, without measurably degrading cooling performance, I expect it to be a very popular product.
> 
> Having just purchased a lot of components for two builds, I was surprised to find so many of them with a problem of one sort or another. A quick trip to Micro Center for an easy return/exchange, or a completely cost and hassle free return/exchange with Amazon makes me personally leery of restrictive return policies. That, however, has nothing to do with the product itself or the support of the company's staff.
> 
> The return/exchange policies of Frozen vs. Amazon is ludicrous, Amazon is so easy to work with that I always check them first.


And as per usual - 100% agree with this statement.
Although I highly doubt after buying this, and seeing the performance reported by others that I'll be returning it before 30days haha


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sozin*
> 
> I tend to do just about all my shopping from Amazon as well, Prime shipping is fantastic. I'd rather buy from Amazon than from Swiftech because I'm sure the shipping cost from Swiftech is fairly high (note, never ordered from Swiftech before, just an assumption).
> 
> It's a shame that there isn't a real ETA for this though, especially if it's supposed to be shipping next week.


Prime is super cheap for students as well. The first 6 months were free, and its $39 annually after that, until you are done with school of course. I'd buy prime even without the discount, but with the discount it's just that much sweeter.


----------



## iceman0C

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Oh don't get me wrong a lot of people in the US shop from Amazon USA.
> But the thing is, when I was in the USA there was FAR MORE EMPHASIS on shopping in-store rather than online.
> Here, due to the internet (including clothing) - people order from home.
> More so, in the USA I found prices cheaper in FRYS (in store) rather than on amazon (online) - that was in California.
> 
> I do love the attitude that Swiftech are taking with customer service here.
> I really love it when a company does that.
> Even though I don't NEED better cooling, nor a dual rad, nor better temps (de-lidded) I appreciate certain companies and products.
> So that's why I want to now get the H220.
> Not ONLY based on performance I've seen reviewed online, but due to the overall package I'm receiving.
> And as per usual - 100% agree with this statement.
> Although I highly doubt after buying this, and seeing the performance reported by others that I'll be returning it before 30days haha


Oh I miss Fry's, sadly they aren't present on the East coast .....but MicroCenter or Amazon/Newegg suffice now

@Swiftech ... I'm hoping you also deliver swiftly on the videos you promised ... esp the CPU + GPU loop


----------



## iceman0C

I'm really waiting to try the Cougar Vortex fans in a push/pull with the H220 ... I have 4 of these from another build lying around ...
Any comments on the stock fans v/s the Vortex ?


----------



## Totally Dubbed

If I get the H220 - I'll be able to make comparisons of the Sp120 vs the stock fans.
But I honestly think the stock fans are better - just by the videos shown.


----------



## iceman0C

Specs wise the Cougar Vortex seem to be better but the Helix' are good as well.... We'll have to find out...


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> If I get the H220 - I'll be able to make comparisons of the Sp120 vs the stock fans.
> But I honestly think the stock fans are better - just by the videos shown.


Good Idea; I believe Martin is planning to do the same. He'll have an H100i for comparison next week







.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Good Idea; I believe Martin is planning to do the same. He'll have an H100 for comparison next week
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


H100i I hope!


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Oh don't get me wrong a lot of people in the US shop from Amazon USA.
> But the thing is, when I was in the USA there was FAR MORE EMPHASIS on shopping in-store rather than online.
> Here, due to the internet (including clothing) - people order from home.
> More so, in the USA I found prices cheaper in FRYS (in store) rather than on amazon (online) - that was in California.


The states want their state tax money... that's why. States lose millions in taxes from online stores. Amazon charges tax in Texas now because the Texas Comptroller was all over Amazon about their facility here.

Fry's is usually the most expensive place and the last place I look for something.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> The states want their state tax money... that's why. States lose millions in taxes from online stores. Amazon charges tax in Texas now because the Texas Comptroller was all over Amazon about their facility here.
> 
> Fry's is usually the most expensive place and the last place I look for something.


same with California. sales tax now charged on goods sold by amazon (not necessarily amazon merchants). It was an easy way to avoid paying sales tax.

as a worker in the public sector, this missing tax money is needed.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> H100i I hope!


Corrected. It is an H100i.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> same with California. sales tax now charged on goods sold by amazon (not necessarily amazon merchants). It was an easy way to avoid paying sales tax.
> 
> as a worker in the public sector, this missing tax money is needed.


funny that's what the UK government are after from amazon, do they not pay tax anywhere


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> funny that's what the UK government are after from amazon, do they not pay tax anywhere


I'm presuming you are referring to Amazon not paying UK corporate taxes. The issue in the US is Amazon not charging customers state sales tax. In the UK/Europe they do charge customers VAT, so slightly different issues.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> The states want their state tax money... that's why. States lose millions in taxes from online stores. Amazon charges tax in Texas now because the Texas Comptroller was all over Amazon about their facility here.
> 
> Fry's is usually the most expensive place and the last place I look for something.


ah understood - that said I got my corsair force gt SSD (red) from frys for only $75


----------



## WALSRU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman0C*
> 
> Specs wise the Cougar Vortex seem to be better but the Helix' are good as well.... We'll have to find out...


Cougar Vortex push very good CFM for how quiet they are (I had 4 on my H100). However I really don't think they're very good rad fans anymore. I switched to two NB Multiframe M12-s3hs and even at 70% speed they dropped temps 3-4C at load and making the subjectively the same amount of noise. From what I've read Helix and GT's perform similar to my NB's so it's a great fan to bundled with the unit.


----------



## twitchyzero

this may seem sad but I already updated my sig
c'mon newegg...get your stock on Monday...I don't wanna pay shipping + taxes


----------



## iceman0C

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> I'm presuming you are referring to Amazon not paying UK corporate taxes. The issue in the US is Amazon not charging customers state sales tax. In the UK/Europe they do charge customers VAT, so slightly different issues.


Actually, Amazon is not 'forced' to collect taxes in state's it does not have operations in ... but the customer should 'theoretically' pay this tax while filing his return, which I'm sure everyone does


----------



## iceman0C

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> Cougar Vortex push very good CFM for how quiet they are (I had 4 on my H100). However I really don't think they're very good rad fans anymore. I switched to two NB Multiframe M12-s3hs and even at 70% speed they dropped temps 3-4C at load and making the subjectively the same amount of noise. From what I've read Helix and GT's perform similar to my NB's so it's a great fan to bundled with the unit.


What's the best fan you would recommend in push/pull for the H220? Get 2 more Helix?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> this may seem sad but I already updated my sig
> c'mon newegg...get your stock on Monday...I don't wanna pay shipping + taxes


Incidentally, how much shipping does swiftech charge - say for basic ground? And which states do you charge sales tax in?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman0C*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> Cougar Vortex push very good CFM for how quiet they are (I had 4 on my H100). However I really don't think they're very good rad fans anymore. I switched to two NB Multiframe M12-s3hs and even at 70% speed they dropped temps 3-4C at load and making the subjectively the same amount of noise. From what I've read Helix and GT's perform similar to my NB's so it's a great fan to bundled with the unit.
> 
> 
> 
> What's the best fan you would recommend in push/pull for the H220? Get 2 more Helix?
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> this may seem sad but I already updated my sig
> c'mon newegg...get your stock on Monday...I don't wanna pay shipping + taxes
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Incidentally, how much shipping does swiftech charge - say for basic ground? And which states do you charge sales tax in?
Click to expand...

Helix fans are very good. I have 2 of them on my Noctua U12. Sound profile is much better than Cougar Vortex and similar to the AP-15.
As for tax, it is based on your state laws and where Swiftech head office/warehouse is in.
You can go to Swiftech site and make a cart too see what shipping is like with a similar cost and size of item.


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman0C*
> 
> Actually, Amazon is not 'forced' to collect taxes in state's it does not have operations in...


That kind of went without saying, which is why I didn't say it...


----------



## WALSRU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman0C*
> 
> What's the best fan you would recommend in push/pull for the H220? Get 2 more Helix?


For price/performance it's either Helix or Arctic F12. Both are very quiet and good performance. For pure looks and performance I like GT's or NB Multiframes (ballin status).

Really the guy to ask is Martin, his reviews were always my favorites ever since I got obsessed about fans.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> For price/performance it's either Helix or Arctic F12. Both are very quiet and good performance. For pure looks and performance I like GT's or NB Multiframes (ballin status).
> 
> Really the guy to ask is Martin, his reviews were always my favorites ever since I got obsessed about fans.


I don't know about the Arctic F12 but the included F12 with my Accelero Hybrid Cooler (for my GPU) had as much as 7~8C difference compared to using a GT AP-29 PWM-modded (running at 1800~2000RPM), the latter being the winner.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> What in the world does any of that have to do with Swiftech, watercooling, or the H220?


Sorry for the off-topic remark.


----------



## WALSRU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> I don't know about the Arctic F12 but the included F12 with my Accelero Hybrid Cooler (for my GPU) had as much as 7~8C difference compared to using a GT AP-29 PWM-modded (running at 1800~2000RPM), the latter being the winner.


I'm not sure if it uses the same fan they sell separately but keep in mind either one is no more than a 1350rpm fan. That might account for some of the difference you saw.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> I'm not sure if it uses the same fan they sell separately but keep in mind either one is no more than a 1350rpm fan. That might account for some of the difference you saw.


I guess.


----------



## WALSRU

AP-29 is an absolute beast from what I hear even if it's a bit noisy. Hard to compete with that on raw temps, cool set up for gpu cooling


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WALSRU*
> 
> AP-29 is an absolute beast from what I hear even if it's a bit noisy. Hard to compete with that on raw temps, cool set up for gpu cooling


Yes. It isn't actually noisy at all at lower fan speeds. It has pretty much the same noise profile as the AP-15 but just a tad higher according to Martin's reviews.


----------



## Pure2sin

I was looking around and was thinking about doing a push pull on the H220 with these:

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/akapbl1216db.html

They have a higher static pressure and are quieter. From the reviews I have read, they seem to be pretty good fans too.


----------



## twitchyzero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman0C*
> 
> What's the best fan you would recommend in push/pull for the H220? Get 2 more Helix?
> Incidentally, how much shipping does swiftech charge - say for basic ground? And which states do you charge sales tax in?


Neither NE or Swiftech charges sales tax in WA but I have Shop Runner account with NE to get free shipping. I did a rough estimate and I think shipping on Swiftech was around $20?


----------



## iceman0C

I have the HAF X case and I plan to mount the rad on top, inside the case, acting as an intake(I know, bad idea) ... if I us a push/pull, how do I mount the rad, since there won't be any screw holes right?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pure2sin*
> 
> I was looking around and was thinking about doing a push pull on the H220 with these:
> 
> http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/akapbl1216db.html
> 
> They have a higher static pressure and are quieter. From the reviews I have read, they seem to be pretty good fans too.


Good fans, only reason quite is slower rpm. The H220 do not need static pressure fans. With the low 13 FPI on the rad. Stock fans at 1300 rpm is dead silent.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman0C*
> 
> I have the HAF X case and I plan to mount the rad on top, inside the case, acting as an intake(I know, bad idea) ... if I us a push/pull, how do I mount the rad, since there won't be any screw holes right?


Intake is actually a good idea, it has very little effect on air temps in your case, but will help with the temp of your loop. I don't know quite what you mean about the screw holes. You mount the top fans to the case, on the other side of the fans you mount the rad, than the bottom fans to the rad.


----------



## M3TAl

I should be getting my Helix next week. I can test them against the Cougars if you want. I would take video of the noise of both fans at 1500rpm, 1000rpm, and both full 12v.

Only radiator I have is what comes with the kuhler 620. I could test single fan on it both at 1500rpm. My hunch is the Helix wins.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman0C*
> 
> I have the HAF X case and I plan to mount the rad on top, inside the case, acting as an intake(I know, bad idea) ... if I us a push/pull, how do I mount the rad, since there won't be any screw holes right?


The HAF X you would mount inside with the fans connect to the rad in push/pull/ there is room. The HAF X only uses 4 screws to mount, the 4 outside (2 left and 2 right). You screw into the fans already connected to the rad.
They way it is setup is currently in push bringing cool air from outside.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> I should be getting my Helix next week. I can test them against the Cougars if you want. I would take video of the noise of both fans at 1500rpm, 1000rpm, and both full 12v.
> 
> Only radiator I have is what comes with the kuhler 620. I could test single fan on it both at 1500rpm. My hunch is the Helix wins.


The Helix is quieter at 1800rpm vs the Vortex at 1500 (PWM version) and 1200 rpm (Non-PWM version). The way the sound is on how the air is moved through the rad and fins is better on the Helix. Which is what I prefer.


----------



## iceman0C

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> I should be getting my Helix next week. I can test them against the Cougars if you want. I would take video of the noise of both fans at 1500rpm, 1000rpm, and both full 12v.
> 
> Only radiator I have is what comes with the kuhler 620. I could test single fan on it both at 1500rpm. My hunch is the Helix wins.


I would be very interested to hear your findings. On various air-coolers the cougar PWMs have been fantastic for me, though I haven't tried the Helix


----------



## iceman0C

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Intake is actually a good idea, it has very little effect on air temps in your case, but will help with the temp of your loop. I don't know quite what you mean about the screw holes. You mount the top fans to the case, on the other side of the fans you mount the rad, than the bottom fans to the rad.


Sorry I meant as exhaust...


----------



## iceman0C

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> The HAF X you would mount inside with the fans connect to the rad in push/pull/ there is room. The HAF X only uses 4 screws to mount, the 4 outside (2 left and 2 right). You screw into the fans already connected to the rad.
> They way it is setup is currently in push bringing cool air from outside.


Sorry, I mean I want to setup the H220 with push pull as an exhaust at the top of the case. I assume I need to remove my 2x 200mm fans and install one set of the H220 'outside' the case ... if you're familiar with the Haf X there is a top cover above the actual metal case
So the setup from bottom to top would be 2x 120mm fans -> H220 Rad ->HAF X metal plate -> 2x 120mm fans

Can I actually mount the whole thing below the roof of the HAF X's internal metal case?
Sorry, I realize this is confusing, need a diagram!


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

remove 200mm fans. Install fans on rad in push/pull. Mount inside of case. There is plenty of room.
take fans off rad, install as exhaust in push/pull.
Fans->rad->fans->HAf X


----------



## iceman0C

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> remove 200mm fans. Install fans on rad in push/pull. Mount inside of case. There is plenty of room.
> take fans off rad, install as exhaust in push/pull.
> Fans->rad->fans->HAf X


Ok then the question is regarding the connection between top fans and HAF X -> essentially the radiator is 'hanging' off the top fans since these are connected to the HAF x roof?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

It is the same as any fan mounting.
Remove top panel, place H220 under the mounting bracket, screw in the the H220 into the HAF X.
Use normal fan screws.


----------



## Pure2sin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Good fans, only reason quite is slower rpm. The H220 do not need static pressure fans. With the low 13 FPI on the rad. Stock fans at 1300 rpm is dead silent.


I thought any radiator would benefit from higher static pressure fan? Meaning that a higher static pressure fan could only result in better cooling. Especially in a push/pull configuration.

Am I wrong?


----------



## dartuil

Im waiti,for a video >HOW to MOD you H220<










GOGO swiftech









I have a apogee HD at home but im afraid by custom loopin fact.


----------



## iceman0C

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pure2sin*
> 
> I thought any radiator would benefit from higher static pressure fan? Meaning that a higher static pressure fan could only result in better cooling. Especially in a push/pull configuration.
> 
> Am I wrong?


I believe the spacing in between the 'fins' on the H220 rad is pretty large due to which we don't need a very high static pressure fan


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Good fans, only reason quite is slower rpm. The H220 do not need static pressure fans. With the low 13 FPI on the rad. Stock fans at 1300 rpm is dead silent.


I wouldn't say dead silent. I don't have them, but I can hear SP120 QEs at 800RPM. Ive decided to give Noctua a try next, PWM so they can go down as low as 300rpm, where the Helix seem to only go down to 900rpm.

Sound of a fan is different to everyone. Amazon easy return makes finding the best fan for you easy


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pure2sin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Good fans, only reason quite is slower rpm. The H220 do not need static pressure fans. With the low 13 FPI on the rad. Stock fans at 1300 rpm is dead silent.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought any radiator would benefit from higher static pressure fan? Meaning that a higher static pressure fan could only result in better cooling. Especially in a push/pull configuration.
> 
> Am I wrong?
Click to expand...

The FPI on the H220 is 13. So high SP is not needed to help airflow through the rad. Compared to the H100i/H100 is 17-19 fpi.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Good fans, only reason quite is slower rpm. The H220 do not need static pressure fans. With the low 13 FPI on the rad. Stock fans at 1300 rpm is dead silent.
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't say dead silent. I don't have them, but I can hear SP120 QEs at 800RPM. Ive decided to give Noctua a try next, PWM so they can go down as low as 300rpm, where the Helix seem to only go down to 900rpm.
> Sound of a fan is different to everyone. Amazon easy return makes finding the best fan for you easy
Click to expand...

At about 1300 rpm and below it is dead silent. You would have put your ear against the case to hear it. I have a high sensitivity to noise, so i can hear fans easily.


----------



## ElMagoFrank

When these are available stateside next week, will they ship out of Long Beach if purchased directly from Swiftech? Looking forward to getting my hands on one of these units.


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> The FPI on the H220 is 13. So high SP is not needed to help airflow through the rad. Compared to the H100i/H100 is 17-19 fpi.
> At about 1300 rpm and below it is dead silent. You would have put your ear against the case to hear it. I have a high sensitivity to noise, so i can hear fans easily.


Less fins per inch means its more efficient if you don't have high speed fans, doesn't mean that higher static pressure wont help.

In my 550D with two SP120 QEs at 800 rpm each, I could hear them at 4-5ft away. I have been eliminating one thing after another trying to get my rig quieter and quieter. Started by going only SSD, then the Seasonic X-650 gold PSU so the fan doesn't spin unless under load, getting quieter vid cards, and working on quieter fans still. Overkill, but I wont stop until I cant hear it any more









Im debating doing a review of the H220 myself. I have a Zalman CNPS20LQ which is a little better then the H80 (probably on par with the H80i), and could order an H100i. I can also test it with a GTX-670/MCW80 in the loop. Id test temps (obviously), noise (pumps and fans), and installation. Then test against a full custom loop.
Wonder how good the mic is on my camera....

If I get enough interest, Ill do this if I can get it from somewhere with a no questions asked return policy (or if Swiftech would be kind enough to send me one,







). I also have Silverstone AP122 directed airflow fans, and Noctua NF-F12s which could be used for testing as well. Been trying to build up some fans to do a round up for them too. Since Ive become so picky about noise, others who are also extra sensitive would find it useful.

I used to do reviews for another site, and plenty just for myself. Took a break for a while, but my try at it again, and hopefully pick up a sponsor if I can.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> The FPI on the H220 is 13. So high SP is not needed to help airflow through the rad. Compared to the H100i/H100 is 17-19 fpi.
> At about 1300 rpm and below it is dead silent. You would have put your ear against the case to hear it. I have a high sensitivity to noise, so i can hear fans easily.
> 
> 
> 
> Less fins per inch means its more efficient if you don't have high speed fans, doesn't mean that higher static pressure wont help.
> 
> In my 550D with two SP120 QEs at 800 rpm each, I could hear them at 4-5ft away. I have been eliminating one thing after another trying to get my rig quieter and quieter. Started by going only SSD, then the Seasonic X-650 gold PSU so the fan doesn't spin unless under load, getting quieter vid cards, and working on quieter fans still. Overkill, but I wont stop until I cant hear it any more
Click to expand...

Not saying it wont help, it is just not needed. The stock fans on H220 is more than enough in performance and noise.
Now you say you can hear the SP120 QE at 4-5ft, something is not right? What fans are where and on what cooler? I know the 550D case very well, and one that is the biggest disappointment I've worked with.


----------



## gkolarov

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman0C*
> 
> Ok then the question is regarding the connection between top fans and HAF X -> essentially the radiator is 'hanging' off the top fans since these are connected to the HAF x roof?


I am in the same situation, and i think to do dhis: remove the top cover of the case (with the two honeycomb filters), install second 200mm fan, install the H220's rad downside to the metal grid ( there are three steel parts of it which fits perfect for three 120mm fans), install the H220's fans to the bottom of the rad. So the configurations will be push/pull as the push fans will be the fans, which come with H220 and the pull fans will be the two 200mm fans of the case.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gkolarov*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *iceman0C*
> 
> Ok then the question is regarding the connection between top fans and HAF X -> essentially the radiator is 'hanging' off the top fans since these are connected to the HAF x roof?
> 
> 
> 
> I am in the same situation, and i think to do dhis: remove the top cover of the case (with the two honeycomb filters), install second 200mm fan, install the H220's rad downside to the metal grid ( there are three steel parts of it which fits perfect for three 120mm fans), install the H220's fans to the bottom of the rad. So the configurations will be push/pull as the push fans will be the fans, which come with H220 and the pull fans will be the two 200mm fans of the case.
Click to expand...

it is better to have the fill port up instead. Doing push/pull with 4x120mm fans is much better. Using the 200mm fans will not help, as the center hub is large and only 1 of the fans would cover the rad. Plus you will have a big gap from the mounting, that it will be worse to pull air.


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Not saying it wont help, it is just not needed. The stock fans on H220 is more than enough in performance and noise.
> Now you say you can hear the SP120 QE at 4-5ft, something is not right? What fans are where and on what cooler? I know the 550D case very well, and one that is the biggest disappointment I've worked with.


Im not disagreeing that the Helix fans are good. For coming with the kit, and the price they go for, they seem to be great. However, I was stating that I doubt they can be "dead silent" at 1300rpm, since no moving object is "dead silent", and the Corsair SP120 QEs are generally known to be very quiet, but I didn't personally think so. I also don't mind spending more for top tier when it comes to certain things like noise.

Just saying, I wouldn't go as far to say the Helix fans at 1300rpm are dead silent, because there is no factual information behind that. Its not physically possible. Noise is generally based on a person and condition basis.

The tone of the above is not meant in any foul manor, just stating I disagree with the terminology that was used.

As for the 550D, I was fairly happy with it over all, however it (and the Antec P280) have shown me that noise dampened cases does not really mean quieter. Finding a balance of getting the most air flow from as few fans as possible, and trying to balance for speed/noise of the fans, will give quieter results then a case that is dampened but doesn't have much airflow. Because under load the CPU/GPU fans will need to spin higher.

So my next project is a Phantom 630 with Noctuas.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gkolarov*
> 
> I am in the same situation, and i think to do dhis: remove the top cover of the case (with the two honeycomb filters), install second 200mm fan, install the H220's rad downside to the metal grid ( there are three steel parts of it which fits perfect for three 120mm fans), install the H220's fans to the bottom of the rad. So the configurations will be push/pull as the push fans will be the fans, which come with H220 and the pull fans will be the two 200mm fans of the case.


In the top of the haf x you have depending on motherboard 100mm of space, the rad for on the h220 is 27mm so with push/pull it will only be 77mm, so you can put it in the top of the case with out putting any fans outside.


----------



## Rustynails

can some one answer if it fits in a corsairs 400r? i would love to buy this


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rustynails*
> 
> can some one answer if it fits in a corsairs 400r? i would love to buy this


check their website - they have a tested case picture.
Maybe you'll then know if your case, with similar dimensions would fit it


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> Less fins per inch means its more efficient if you don't have high speed fans, doesn't mean that higher static pressure wont help.
> 
> In my 550D with two SP120 QEs at 800 rpm each, I could hear them at 4-5ft away. I have been eliminating one thing after another trying to get my rig quieter and quieter. Started by going only SSD, then the Seasonic X-650 gold PSU so the fan doesn't spin unless under load, getting quieter vid cards, and working on quieter fans still. Overkill, but I wont stop until I cant hear it any more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im debating doing a review of the H220 myself. I have a Zalman CNPS20LQ which is a little better then the H80 (probably on par with the H80i), and could order an H100i. I can also test it with a GTX-670/MCW80 in the loop. Id test temps (obviously), noise (pumps and fans), and installation. Then test against a full custom loop.
> Wonder how good the mic is on my camera....
> 
> If I get enough interest, Ill do this if I can get it from somewhere with a no questions asked return policy (or if Swiftech would be kind enough to send me one,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ). I also have Silverstone AP122 directed airflow fans, and Noctua NF-F12s which could be used for testing as well. Been trying to build up some fans to do a round up for them too. Since Ive become so picky about noise, others who are also extra sensitive would find it useful.
> 
> I used to do reviews for another site, and plenty just for myself. Took a break for a while, but my try at it again, and hopefully pick up a sponsor if I can.


I'm curious:
Why would you use Silverstone Air Penetrator case fans on a radiator in either configuration?








Those fans are specifically designed for intake into open case space only, not pushing through a radiator, or pulling out the back of one either...
Just saying, Silverstone's recommendation regarding their product is that this will not produce results on par with fans designed to produce pressure-based airflow.

I addressed this with another fella about a radiator he had, and it was a temporary fix and all, but it's just a curiosity for me, because I'm such a "case airflow" person, and I love the SS AP fans!

Thanks - T


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ElMagoFrank*
> 
> When these are available stateside next week, will they ship out of Long Beach if purchased directly from Swiftech? Looking forward to getting my hands on one of these units.


Once we have them available for purchase you will be able to purchase them directly from us and they will ship from our HQ in Long Beach.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Once we have them available for purchase you will be able to purchase them directly from us and they will ship from our HQ in Long Beach.


Good, cause my SC Signature Titan needs a bath.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Good, cause my SC Signature Titan needs a bath.


That Titan is an absolute beast of a card. I only use a single 25 inch monitor so it would be total overkill. My dual 560 Ti cards are able to give me playable frame rates at my native 1080p resolution with max settings so I don't see a reason to upgrade at this time. Our H220 can certain help to give your Titan a bath though. Are you planning to add an additional radiator in the future?


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> That Titan is an absolute beast of a card. I only use a single 25 inch monitor so it would be total overkill. My dual 560 Ti cards are able to give me playable frame rates at my native 1080p resolution with max settings so I don't see a reason to upgrade at this time. Our H220 can certain help to give your Titan a bath though. Are you planning to add an additional radiator in the future?


In the future is mostly as soon as I get it all here, lol. The loop will be the H220 -> MCR-220-QP w/ 2 helix -> Titan -> back to h220 with all intake. Going to replace the 12v non PWM bitfenix fan with another Helix, run all the fans off of the case PWM header on my Z77E-ITX using the splitter that comes with H220, and the pump on the CPU header.

My prodigy will be all Swiftech cooling, hence the PMs I sent you about it.

My 670 4gb DC2 was great for my 1200p monitor and 1080p secondary, but it didn't have anywhere near the required power to make 1440p look really nice on my QNIX QX2700.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> My 670 4gb DC2 was great for my 1200p monitor and 1080p secondary, but it didn't have anywhere near the required power to make 1440p look really nice on my QNIX QX2700.


That higher resolution really puts a lot of stress on the card and with the additional QP rad you should be able to put a decent overclock on the card if needed. I doubt it will though because that SC Titan already has a decent overclock that it doesn't even really need.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> That higher resolution really puts a lot of stress on the card and with the additional QP rad you should be able to put a decent overclock on the card if needed. I doubt it will though because that SC Titan already has a decent overclock that it doesn't even really need.












Time will tell, we'll see how the titan overclocks initial tests / drivers / bios are not as promising as we had realistically hoped.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Not saying it wont help, it is just not needed. The stock fans on H220 is more than enough in performance and noise.
> Now you say you can hear the SP120 QE at 4-5ft, something is not right? What fans are where and on what cooler? I know the 550D case very well, and one that is the biggest disappointment I've worked with.
> 
> 
> 
> Im not disagreeing that the Helix fans are good. For coming with the kit, and the price they go for, they seem to be great. However, I was stating that I doubt they can be "dead silent" at 1300rpm, since no moving object is "dead silent", and the Corsair SP120 QEs are generally known to be very quiet, but I didn't personally think so. I also don't mind spending more for top tier when it comes to certain things like noise.
> 
> Just saying, I wouldn't go as far to say the Helix fans at 1300rpm are dead silent, because there is no factual information behind that. Its not physically possible. Noise is generally based on a person and condition basis.
> 
> The tone of the above is not meant in any foul manor, just stating I disagree with the terminology that was used.
> 
> As for the 550D, I was fairly happy with it over all, however it (and the Antec P280) have shown me that noise dampened cases does not really mean quieter. Finding a balance of getting the most air flow from as few fans as possible, and trying to balance for speed/noise of the fans, will give quieter results then a case that is dampened but doesn't have much airflow. Because under load the CPU/GPU fans will need to spin higher.
> 
> So my next project is a Phantom 630 with Noctuas.
Click to expand...

I have many fans in my collection, more than I ever needs. The Helix can not be heard over the Spectre Pro all running at 5v, 7v. At 12v you can slightly hear it, if you put your ear close to the case. The way Helix is designed is very different (like the AP-15 but more like the Titan Kukri) than SP120 from Corsair. I had the SP120 and the QE is no different than standard version, just they set speed for you. I did not find the SP120 & SP120QE quiet at any levels when used on heatsink, rad or case. There was an audible noise.

With the 550D which I did own and returned, fans in the front of case/side/top with the dust filter attached, will increase the noise of the fans, by considerable amount. The dust filter than came with the 550D are garbage and do really nothing except increase noise. I currently have the P280 which is better than 550D is better all aspects.

As getting the Phantom 630 I would skip that case. Get the Fractal Arc Midi R2, you will find it to be a much nicer and better built case. Plenty of room and very good open airflow.


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> I have many fans in my collection, more than I ever needs. The Helix can not be heard over the Spectre Pro all running at 5v, 7v. At 12v you can slightly hear it, if you put your ear close to the case. The way Helix is designed is very different (like the AP-15 but more like the Titan Kukri) than SP120 from Corsair. I had the SP120 and the QE is no different than standard version, just they set speed for you. I did not find the SP120 & SP120QE quiet at any levels when used on heatsink, rad or case. There was an audible noise.
> 
> With the 550D which I did own and returned, fans in the front of case/side/top with the dust filter attached, will increase the noise of the fans, by considerable amount. The dust filter than came with the 550D are garbage and do really nothing except increase noise. I currently have the P280 which is better than 550D is better all aspects.
> 
> As getting the Phantom 630 I would skip that case. Get the Fractal Arc Midi R2, you will find it to be a much nicer and better built case. Plenty of room and very good open airflow.


EVENTUALLY

I will get my own Fractal Design Midi R2 - when newegg/amazon starts stocking the damn thing..


----------



## Ryld Baenre

I really want to throw my triebwerk tk-123 fans I have sitting around on this just to see what temps the things give on max. Currently they aren`t usable because it sounds like an F-16 is trapped in my case without a high performance fan controller.


----------



## sWaY20

How is the fractal r4? I'm thinking about swapping out for that case. I know it'll fit this cooler in it since it's pictured on their site.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sWaY20*
> 
> How is the fractal r4? I'm thinking about swapping out for that case. I know it'll fit this cooler in it since it's pictured on their site.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


R4 is nice, I prefer the Midi R2 as you have 100% that 240 rads in push/pull will fit without issues of mobo in top and front.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sWaY20*
> 
> How is the fractal r4? I'm thinking about swapping out for that case. I know it'll fit this cooler in it since it's pictured on their site.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


I have the R4 - great case - HUGE and heavy though.
in h220 news:

I'm calling simple tech tomorrow about it - and in fact the fractal r4 case window.
I've been thinking of having a window on my build, and possibly adding some white LED's on the inside of my PC









It will fit hand-in hand with my new logitech keyboard <3


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> remove 200mm fans. Install fans on rad in push/pull. Mount inside of case. There is plenty of room.
> take fans off rad, install as exhaust in push/pull.
> Fans->rad->fans->HAf X


Is it better with the fans set to intake cool air from outside or as exhaust for radiator? I already have a 230mm side fan on exhaust as well as 140mm rear fan on my Rose will Blackhawk Ultra case. As you suggested earlier I will be top mounting an H320 radiator 360mm. Also push-pull is there room for that in the case? Thanks you are a real help for the inexperienced like me on this forum.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Here's what I'm thinking of ordering from special tech:


----------



## Thrasher1016

OH, here's a question I don't know if I can think of a good answer to...









If we're going to use the H220 AIO mounted horizontally in the top of our case, as intake (fans uppermost, with one set of filters above) will the kit come with long post screws for this application, and if NOT, what is ST's recommendation?
To clarify, what's the screw you'd pick if this were you?









Thanks - T


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrasher1016*
> 
> OH, here's a question I don't know if I can think of a good answer to...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If we're going to use the H220 AIO mounted horizontally in the top of our case, as intake (fans uppermost, with one set of filters above) will the kit come with long post screws for this application, and if NOT, what is ST's recommendation?
> To clarify, what's the screw you'd pick if this were you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks - T


as far as I understand you will install the kit in the configuration in its pre-installed configuration (fans already attached to the rad), so you will just need fan screws (you know the short type with coarse thread that thread into the fan holes) to install the kit to your chassis. You shouldn't need to use long screws.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sWaY20*
> 
> How is the fractal r4? I'm thinking about swapping out for that case. I know it'll fit this cooler in it since it's pictured on their site.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


not bad if i say so myself:

http://imgur.com/a/MDg1l


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> as far as I understand you will install the kit in the configuration in its pre-installed configuration (fans already attached to the rad), so you will just need fan screws (you know the short type with coarse thread that thread into the fan holes) to install the kit to your chassis. You shouldn't need to use long screws.


So you are just screwing in the fans from the top with normal fan screws instead of the long ones used on the various other AIO coolers?

nice!


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> So you are just screwing in the fans from the top with normal fan screws instead of the long ones used on the various other AIO coolers?
> 
> nice!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> as far as I understand you will install the kit in the configuration in its pre-installed configuration (fans already attached to the rad), so you will just need fan screws (you know the short type with coarse thread that thread into the fan holes) to install the kit to your chassis. You shouldn't need to use long screws.


Very nice.... And I take it that this config. can be adjusted if one wishes; to mean one would remove the fans from their current mounting, then reattach them with full length screws?

I was one of those kids that didn't like regular Lego instructions because the finished design always felt... weak... so that's why I ask. I like reinforcement and *strength*!!!









Thanks - T


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> So you are just screwing in the fans from the top with normal fan screws instead of the long ones used on the various other AIO coolers?
> 
> nice!


Yes. Installing a radiator and fan with screws going through the fans first, getting everything aligned while you are holding the rad with one rad is just a pain. We've done it, it works but it's still a pain. So why not make our customers life easier if we can








Of course you can remove the screws that hold the fans on the rad if you want to put the fan on the other side for example.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Yes. Installing a radiator and fan with screws going through the fans first, getting everything aligned while you are holding the rad with one rad is just a pain. We've done it, it works but it's still a pain. So why not make our customers life easier if we can
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you can remove the screws that hold the fans on the rad if you want to put the fan on the other side for example.


Is the recommended setup the fans pushing air through the radiator and into the case?


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Yes. Installing a radiator and fan with screws going through the fans first, getting everything aligned while you are holding the rad with one rad is just a pain. We've done it, it works but it's still a pain. So why not make our customers life easier if we can
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course you can remove the screws that hold the fans on the rad if you want to put the fan on the other side for example.


Little things like this is what is making me buy the H220.

I will get it along with my Arc Midi R2 and eventually add a TITAN gpu block and extra 240 rad.


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> Is the recommended setup the fans pushing air through the radiator and into the case?


Yeah, it's always best-case-scenario to give your radiator first dibs at cooler air, and let your case fans worry about giving the volume of your case body the fluff independently.

I've done it both ways; best results, Radiator first, just like wives.









Thanks - T


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> Is the recommended setup the fans pushing air through the radiator and into the case?


I posted something along these lines a couple of days ago. Short answer is yes.

Long answer:

As long as you have at least one case fan as exhaust, you will be better off having the fans sucking fresh air as intakes AND pushing through the radiator.
Pushing is always better than pulling. And intake is almost always better unless the case has really poor airflow (i.e. if there is no exhaust fan for instance). If you've got everything (i.e. CPU and GPU) on water, then intake is the way to go no matter what.

If you've got multiple radiators things can change a little bit depending where the second rad is installed.
* I think having a second rad as intake at the bottom is a mistake from a dust standard point, so I have to have a rad at the bottom, this one would be set as exhaust.
* If a the second rad is on the front, I would put this one as intake.
* in the case of the second rad is a 120 (or 140) on the rear (next to the MB i/o's) I would set it as exhaust.

This doesn't cover all possibilities but these are the most common cases.

Also remember that you do NOT have to have as many intake fans as exhaust. I read this way too many times. A case isn't a sealed system, even with NO exhaust fans, don't worry, air will find its way out.

Take the example of our CES System #5: 3 radiators (top, front, bottom).
* top: intake
* front: intake
* bottom: exhaust
Rear fan was an Helix 140 as exhaust. We could have done all 3 rads as intake with just the rear 140 as exhaust with no problem.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> I posted something along these lines a couple of days ago. Short answer is yes.
> Rear fan was an Helix 140 as exhaust. We could have done all 3 rads as intake with just the rear 140 as exhaust with no problem.


Sorry for the stupid question but int his image (stock H220):
http://www.swiftech.org/images/H220/Fractal-Design-R4.jpg

The fans are set for a PUSH configuration, but pushing air OUT - Is that correct?

Thus to invert it, I would put the fans on the other side of the radiator?
However that won't work?

Slightly stupidly mind boggled atm haha

EDIT:
And as for the fan at the back - would that be pushing air IN or OUT of the case?
Would love to know the best way to set it up for my R4.

Might be ordering this tomorrow.

EDIT2:
And I will be posting it on my YouTube channel too and reviewing it on OCN


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Sorry for the stupid question but int his image (stock H220):
> http://www.swiftech.org/images/H220/Fractal-Design-R4.jpg
> 
> The fans are set for a PUSH configuration, but pushing air OUT - Is that correct?
> 
> Thus to invert it, I would put the fans on the other side of the radiator?
> However that won't work?
> 
> Slightly stupidly mind boggled atm haha
> 
> EDIT:
> And as for the fan at the back - would that be pushing air IN or OUT of the case?
> Would love to know the best way to set it up for my R4.
> 
> Might be ordering this tomorrow.
> 
> EDIT2:
> And I will be posting it on my YouTube channel too and reviewing it on OCN


in that picture it is pushing through the rad to the outside of the case.

If you want to switch that to an intake, you dont need to move the fans to the other side, you just flip the entire radiator/fan assembly and then use the self tapping fan mounting screws to mount the fans + rad to the case.

for the rear fan, i would set it to an exhaust if you're going to be pulling air inside from the top mounted radiator. IMO radiators work best if you intake air directly from the outside of the case and exhaust the warm air out the back.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> in that picture it is pushing through the rad to the outside of the case.
> 
> If you want to switch that to an intake, you dont need to move the fans to the other side, you just flip the entire radiator/fan assembly and then use the self tapping fan mounting screws to mount the fans + rad to the case.
> 
> for the rear fan, i would set it to an exhaust if you're going to be pulling air inside from the top mounted radiator. IMO radiators work best if you intake air directly from the outside of the case and exhaust the warm air out the back.


But am I not mistaken in thinking that the screws go from the fans to the rad.
Meaning if I were to flip it completely (which I was thinking of doing) then I wouldn't be able to screw into a screw.
If that makes sense?

That is where I'm confused


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> But am I not mistaken in thinking that the screws go from the fans to the rad.
> Meaning if I were to flip it completely (which I was thinking of doing) then I wouldn't be able to screw into a screw.
> If that makes sense?
> 
> That is where I'm confused


the screws that mount the fans to the h220 are not long, and they secure the fans directly to the radiator only through the first "flange". If you look at the videos of their latest version you need to use a smallish phillips screwdriver to get to them.

To mount the radiator with the fans pushing air in from the outside, you need to use your typical fan mounting screws, and not thread them all the way through to the radiator.

http://youtu.be/4gxbXZSUje8?t=5m5s

I have a similar setup on my current h50 (using short screws).


----------



## Thrasher1016

In THEIR config. yes, they had long screws, but what I think the rep was saying up there is that the attachment system doesn't RELY on that, meaning for us to do the "Inside-Out" airflow style, we can use coarse thread screws and just attach to the fan corner tab holes.

You want to flip the opposite of that pic, right? That's exactly what I'm going to do. OUTSIDE air, coming IN, with the Helix fans on top of the radiator.
The rep confirmed that is possible with the setup....

(Back me up!







)

Thanks - T

EDIT: What @ez12a said...


----------



## vladphotopro

Hope it will go on sale in US soon. It is last piece of my new build. Already have additional QP360 rad, mc-res micro, Crosshair Formula Z, GTX670 with waterblock, cosmos 2 and it is just sitting in front of me taunting me, just waiting to get h220 to tie it all together.


----------



## SDBolts619

Stephen -

I noticed on your website that you have the H220 set up in a Raven RV02 case. In the photo, you've replaced two of the 180mm fans with the radiator and it's fans. Is there any reason not to mount the radiator on top of the existing case fans, with the Swiftech fans set in a pull configuration? I've got myself some sheet Lexan to fabricate a mounting adapter since the sizes are different...

Thanks!


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Sorry for the stupid question but int his image (stock H220):
> http://www.swiftech.org/images/H220/Fractal-Design-R4.jpg
> 
> The fans are set for a PUSH configuration, but pushing air OUT - Is that correct?
> 
> Thus to invert it, I would put the fans on the other side of the radiator?
> However that won't work?
> 
> Slightly stupidly mind boggled atm haha
> 
> EDIT:
> And as for the fan at the back - would that be pushing air IN or OUT of the case?
> Would love to know the best way to set it up for my R4.
> 
> Might be ordering this tomorrow.
> 
> EDIT2:
> And I will be posting it on my YouTube channel too and reviewing it on OCN


that is correct. Note that all of these were just mock-up's to show what's possible mechanically.
If I was to use this case, I would flip the fans so that they're pulling from the radiator (intake) <=> air outside the case -> case panel -> Radiator -> Fans -> ...
There is limited room in this chassis and you need the fans physically installed under the radiator - I'd still recommend intake over exhaust in this case even though it means fans pulling rather than pushing.


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SDBolts619*
> 
> Stephen -
> 
> I noticed on your website that you have the H220 set up in a Raven RV02 case. In the photo, you've replaced two of the 180mm fans with the radiator and it's fans. Is there any reason not to mount the radiator on top of the existing case fans, with the Swiftech fans set in a pull configuration? I've got myself some sheet Lexan to fabricate a mounting adapter since the sizes are different...
> 
> Thanks!


didnt your rv02 come with the brackets to do that?

mine had 2 x 180mm to 120mm radiator adaptors in the box to do exactly that


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SDBolts619*
> 
> Stephen -
> 
> I noticed on your website that you have the H220 set up in a Raven RV02 case. In the photo, you've replaced two of the 180mm fans with the radiator and it's fans. Is there any reason not to mount the radiator on top of the existing case fans, with the Swiftech fans set in a pull configuration? I've got myself some sheet Lexan to fabricate a mounting adapter since the sizes are different...
> 
> Thanks!


sure it should be possible if you can make some kind of bracket to hold it.
If you remove the existing fans you can just use the multitude of holes to attach the kit - that's what we did to show it can be installed without doing any mod's.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> didnt your rv02 come with the brackets to do that?
> 
> mine had 2 x 180mm to 120mm radiator adaptors in the box to do exactly that


ours didn't.
unless we trashed the box a little too fast. xD


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrasher1016*
> 
> I'm curious:
> Why would you use Silverstone Air Penetrator case fans on a radiator in either configuration?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those fans are specifically designed for intake into open case space only, not pushing through a radiator, or pulling out the back of one either...
> Just saying, Silverstone's recommendation regarding their product is that this will not produce results on par with fans designed to produce pressure-based airflow.
> 
> I addressed this with another fella about a radiator he had, and it was a temporary fix and all, but it's just a curiosity for me, because I'm such a "case airflow" person, and I love the SS AP fans!
> 
> Thanks - T


Just because I have them on hand, and this, http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/02/18/why-static-pressure-max-flow-specs-are-poor-measures-of-fan-performance/
I just personally want to test how focused airflow works with a rad. I know the AP121s have more SP then the AP122s, but I don't have those.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> My 670 4gb DC2 was great for my 1200p monitor and 1080p secondary, but it didn't have anywhere near the required power to make 1440p look really nice on my QNIX QX2700.


Really? With what game? I have yet to find a game that I cant play on highest settings with at least FXAA (since high levels of AA dont really make a difference at 1440P). Havent tried Crysis 3, it may be the only game to be played on high. Ive also never came close to 2GB, Crysis 2 all maxed with DX11 and high res textures used the most at 17xxMB.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> I have many fans in my collection, more than I ever needs. The Helix can not be heard over the Spectre Pro all running at 5v, 7v. At 12v you can slightly hear it, if you put your ear close to the case. The way Helix is designed is very different (like the AP-15 but more like the Titan Kukri) than SP120 from Corsair. I had the SP120 and the QE is no different than standard version, just they set speed for you. I did not find the SP120 & SP120QE quiet at any levels when used on heatsink, rad or case. There was an audible noise.
> 
> With the 550D which I did own and returned, fans in the front of case/side/top with the dust filter attached, will increase the noise of the fans, by considerable amount. The dust filter than came with the 550D are garbage and do really nothing except increase noise. I currently have the P280 which is better than 550D is better all aspects.
> 
> As getting the Phantom 630 I would skip that case. Get the Fractal Arc Midi R2, you will find it to be a much nicer and better built case. Plenty of room and very good open airflow.


I was going to try the Arc Midi R2, but its not available yet. Also, I think for my loop a single 360 would be perfect, and in the R2, it would either be 2x240s which is one more fan, or a 240 + 120 which I just wouldn't like with the extra space for a 240.
Plus I had an R3 before, and the build quality was quite bad. Came with paint chips, things didn't line up right, panels were too flexable, and the top had little bumps in it. Didn't keep that one for that long.

I had a couple of Switch 810s and they are pretty solid cases, just huge. The 630 has a lot of nice features while being a little smaller, and still offering tons of water cooling options. Its also got great airflow. Im not a huge fan of the front/top styling, but Ill have it positioned where I only see it from the side, with the side panel removed. The gun metal color will also match my color theme nicely.


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> ours didn't.
> unless we trashed the box a little too fast. xD


i didnt realise what they were at first--they were in a little box with some other bits like 3.5 adapter for 5.25 bay and the little support for the psu


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> Just because I have them on hand, and this, http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/02/18/why-static-pressure-max-flow-specs-are-poor-measures-of-fan-performance/
> I just personally want to test how focused airflow works with a rad. I know the AP121s have more SP then the AP122s, but I don't have those.
> *Really? With what game? I have yet to find a game that I cant play on highest settings with at least FXAA (since high levels of AA dont really make a difference at 1440P). Havent tried Crysis 3, it may be the only game to be played on high. Ive also never came close to 2GB, Crysis 2 all maxed with DX11 and high res textures used the most at 17xxMB.*
> I was going to try the Arc Midi R2, but its not available yet. Also, I think for my loop a single 360 would be perfect, and in the R2, it would either be 2x240s which is one more fan, or a 240 + 120 which I just wouldn't like with the extra space for a 240.
> Plus I had an R3 before, and the build quality was quite bad. Came with paint chips, things didn't line up right, panels were too flexable, and the top had little bumps in it. Didn't keep that one for that long.
> 
> I had a couple of Switch 810s and they are pretty solid cases, just huge. The 630 has a lot of nice features while being a little smaller, and still offering tons of water cooling options. Its also got great airflow. Im not a huge fan of the front/top styling, but Ill have it positioned where I only see it from the side, with the side panel removed. The gun metal color will also match my color theme nicely.


It wasn't the memory, it was the card running out of gas. AC3 / Metro / Cry2 ... basically any semi -recent title using DX11 the card just didn't have enough power to keep the frames over 60.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> the screws that mount the fans to the h220 are not long, and they secure the fans directly to the radiator only through the first "flange". If you look at the videos of their latest version you need to use a smallish phillips screwdriver to get to them.
> 
> To mount the radiator with the fans pushing air in from the outside, you need to use your typical fan mounting screws, and not thread them all the way through to the radiator.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a similar setup on my current h50 (using short screws).


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> that is correct. Note that all of these were just mock-up's to show what's possible mechanically.
> If I was to use this case, I would flip the fans so that they're pulling from the radiator (intake) <=> air outside the case -> case panel -> Radiator -> Fans -> ...
> There is limited room in this chassis and you need the fans physically installed under the radiator - I'd still recommend intake over exhaust in this case even though it means fans pulling rather than pushing.


Many thanks for the replies - +rep to both.

I'll do that then - fan intake pushing air through the rad from the top of the case, and a outtake/exhaust at the rear of the case via my AF140.


----------



## AdamMT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> that is correct. Note that all of these were just mock-up's to show what's possible mechanically.
> If I was to use this case, I would flip the fans so that they're pulling from the radiator (intake) <=> air outside the case -> case panel -> Radiator -> Fans -> ...
> There is limited room in this chassis and you need the fans physically installed under the radiator - I'd still recommend intake over exhaust in this case even though it means fans pulling rather than pushing.


Apparently it's possible to mount the H220 in the R4 with the fans on top, as that's exactly how Overclockers set it up in their review: http://www.overclockers.com/swiftech-h220-lcs-all-in-one-water-cooler-review

Or at least it's possible with the AMD board they used. I think it's not possible with the Asus X79 board I'm using as the board goes right to the top of the rear exhaust fan.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Apparently it's possible to mount the H220 in the R4 with the fans on top, as that's exactly how Overclockers set it up in their review: http://www.overclockers.com/swiftech-h220-lcs-all-in-one-water-cooler-review
> 
> Or at least it's possible with the AMD board they used. I think it's not possible with the Asus X79 board I'm using as the board goes right to the top of the rear exhaust fan.


That's a great review - thanks for sharing - in that case the ONLY thing to be concerned about is plugging in the CPU header fan and the ATX 8 pin of the motherboard for the CPU, BEFORE installing the cooler.


----------



## SDBolts619

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> sure it should be possible if you can make some kind of bracket to hold it.
> If you remove the existing fans you can just use the multitude of holes to attach the kit - that's what we did to show it can be installed without doing any mod's.


Yep, the bracket is about halfway done. I just need to decide where exactly I'll mount up the H220 and cut the insides. Doing the countersunk screw recesses for the H220 will be the only real trick to this. I figured why remove the big 180mm fans - extra airflow is always a good thing, right? Plus, with the H220 mounted towards the outside of the case, the back part of the 180mm fans will still be there blowing directly up to the motherboard and video cards...

Did you guys remove the filter system when you installed in the Raven case?


----------



## fatlardo

End of February has come.







Any news on preorders for US?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fatlardo*
> 
> End of February has come.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Any news on preorders for US?


If you glanced through the thread you'd have your answer.









The US shipment is coming in on the 3rd, expect companies to start selling it that week.


----------



## ez12a

i'm almost willing to drive up from OC to Long Beach next week...almost.







Depends how fast microcenter can get them in stock.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> i'm almost willing to drive up from OC to Long Beach next week...almost.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Depends how fast microcenter can get them in stock.


If you do come out here I'll look forward to meeting you in person. I'm the guy that has the little cubicle in the corner. It's also the one with the sound of Ramms+ein coming from it.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> If you do come out here I'll look forward to meeting you in person. I'm the guy that has the little cubicle in the corner. It's also the one with the sound of Ramms+ein coming from it.


any plans to start having more gear stock at microcenter? I went down there today and only had a couple of pumps, but no swiftech fans at all


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> If you do come out here I'll look forward to meeting you in person. I'm the guy that has the little cubicle in the corner. It's also the one with the sound of Ramms+ein coming from it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> any plans to start having more gear stock at microcenter? I went down there today and only had a couple of pumps, but no swiftech fans at all
Click to expand...

Microcenter decides on what they feel would sell. Swiftech cant decide for them to sell what they want.
only thing is ask them to carry it, in final it is still upto Microcenter to decide.


----------



## AdamMT

Man, I'm looking at the H220 diagrams and at my Fractal R4 and I don't see any way this thing will mount in the top of the case. There's 1.5" between the mobo and the top of the case, and the H220 requires 2.1" I don't see how mounting the fans underneath helps, since they go all the way to the edge of the radiator.

This really chaps my a$$ because I bought the case specifically because it was approved by Swiftech for the H220.
















Seems the only option would be to remove the drive cages and do a front mount. In my case that would entail moving the HD to a 5.25" bay (have to buy adapter) and mounting the SSD in back (requires mobo removal).

Phanteks starting to look pretty good right about now.


----------



## spikexp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Man, I'm looking at the H220 diagrams and at my Fractal R4 and I don't see any way this thing will mount in the top of the case. There's 1.5" between the mobo and the top of the case, and the H220 requires 2.1" I don't see how mounting the fans underneath helps, since they go all the way to the edge of the radiator.
> 
> This really chaps my a$$ because I bought the case specifically because it was approved by Swiftech for the H220.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems the only option would be to remove the drive cages and do a front mount. In my case that would entail moving the HD to a 5.25" bay (have to buy adapter) and mounting the SSD in back (requires mobo removal).
> 
> Phanteks starting to look pretty good right about now.


Dude, the h220 will just do over the top of your motherboard, look at the picture. It will stop right before the ram slot.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Man, I'm looking at the H220 diagrams and at my Fractal R4 and I don't see any way this thing will mount in the top of the case. There's 1.5" between the mobo and the top of the case, and the H220 requires 2.1" I don't see how mounting the fans underneath helps, since they go all the way to the edge of the radiator.
> 
> This really chaps my a$$ because I bought the case specifically because it was approved by Swiftech for the H220.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seems the only option would be to remove the drive cages and do a front mount. In my case that would entail moving the HD to a 5.25" bay (have to buy adapter) and mounting the SSD in back (requires mobo removal).
> 
> Phanteks starting to look pretty good right about now.


It depends on the mobo you get. The R4 will fit, but it varies. You should have asked to confirm before you bought the case. What they show is an example that it can be mounted. It wasnt approved by Swiftech. There is no guarantee it will fit based on different mobo.
Please do not blame swiftech.


----------



## AdamMT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> It depends on the mobo you get. The R4 will fit, but it varies. You should have asked to confirm before you bought the case. What they show is an example that it can be mounted. It wasnt approved by Swiftech. There is no guarantee it will fit based on different mobo.
> Please do not blame swiftech.


Seriously? On Swiftech's H220 page they have a compatibility section listing compatible cases, and they have two pictures of the R4 with a "Swiftech [check mark]" logo next to it. If that doesn't mean it's Swiftech approved then I don't know what it means. There's no asterisk suggesting that it only works with some motherboards.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Seriously? On Swiftech's H220 page they have a compatibility section listing compatible cases, and they have two pictures of the R4 with a "Swiftech [check mark]" logo next to it. If that doesn't mean it's Swiftech approved then I don't know what it means. There's no asterisk suggesting that it only works with some motherboards.


Approval means it will fit the case, not necessarily every motherboard. As others mentioned, it'll likely fit but hang over your mobo. OTOH, if you're using it a CLC, you could always point the res downward and mount the fans on the outside of the case, topside of the rad, if it doesn't fit due to very high heatsinks.

In the picture shown, it shows that the fans overhang the motherboard some. What I would do to see if it'll fit your motherboard is stack 2 120mm fans on each fan mount on the top (just hold them there) and see if they clear your heatsinks. If there's about clearance for another 10mm below the fans, it'll fit no prob.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Seriously? On Swiftech's H220 page they have a compatibility section listing compatible cases, and they have two pictures of the R4 with a "Swiftech [check mark]" logo next to it. If that doesn't mean it's Swiftech approved then I don't know what it means. There's no asterisk suggesting that it only works with some motherboards.


They show you it can fit. It isn't their job to double check every mobo and make sure it fits in every combo. I'm sorry if it won't fit on your mobo, but you as the consumer have to double check to make sure it works before you make a purchase.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Microcenter decides on what they feel would sell. Swiftech cant decide for them to sell what they want.
> only thing is ask them to carry it, in final it is still upto Microcenter to decide.


that's why I'm asking someone that has something more than a thought or guess as an answer


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> It depends on the mobo you get. The R4 will fit, but it varies. You should have asked to confirm before you bought the case. What they show is an example that it can be mounted. It wasnt approved by Swiftech. There is no guarantee it will fit based on different mobo.
> Please do not blame swiftech.
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously? On Swiftech's H220 page they have a compatibility section listing compatible cases, and they have two pictures of the R4 with a "Swiftech [check mark]" logo next to it. If that doesn't mean it's Swiftech approved then I don't know what it means. There's no asterisk suggesting that it only works with some motherboards.
Click to expand...

It is not approval from Swiftech. That page is a guideline to show what some case will it mount too. Compatibility to mobo is still upto you to do measurements to see if it will fit. So many different mobo out there, they can test everyone. Any person to buy parts has to do that, even the season pro still does it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Microcenter decides on what they feel would sell. Swiftech cant decide for them to sell what they want.
> only thing is ask them to carry it, in final it is still upto Microcenter to decide.
> 
> 
> 
> that's why I'm asking someone that has something more than a thought or guess as an answer
Click to expand...

You need to contact Microcenter directly. it is still there decision to stock parts, that will sell.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Seriously? On Swiftech's H220 page they have a compatibility section listing compatible cases, and they have two pictures of the R4 with a "Swiftech [check mark]" logo next to it. If that doesn't mean it's Swiftech approved then I don't know what it means. There's no asterisk suggesting that it only works with some motherboards.


I'm the one that installed the motherboards and kits into these cases. We don't have a very wide selection of motherboards for testing and I selected one that I thought had a higher MOSFET heat sink than normal. The pictures are a guide to show you that we were able to mount it into that particular case with that or similar motherboard. We don't have any way to test every single motherboard and I'm sorry if you found the information misleading.


----------



## savagepagan

I thought the h220 was supposed to arrive in late Feb. but I guess that is marketing talk for middle of the next month.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> It is not approval from Swiftech. That page is a guideline to show what some case will it mount too. Compatibility to mobo is still upto you to do measurements to see if it will fit. So many different mobo out there, they can test everyone. Any person to buy parts has to do that, even the season pro still does it.
> You need to contact Microcenter directly. it is still there decision to stock parts, that will sell.


microcenter doesn't know anything, that's why I'm asking someone more competent, there's enough swiftech reps here to at least know something about it


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> microcenter doesn't know anything, that's why I'm asking someone more competent, there's enough swiftech reps here to at least know something about it


I'll see if I can get you some information about Microcenter tomorrow. I'm at home right now and I don't have that information off of the top of my head. I think I was forwarded something today, I just don't remember the particulars.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *savagepagan*
> 
> I thought the h220 was supposed to arrive in late Feb. but I guess that is marketing talk for middle of the next month.


It's already been mentioned that they will be available for purchase on March 3rd due to shipment delays. Hardly the middle of March...


----------



## AdamMT

All I'm saying is, if you aren't certifying that the cooler will work with the case generally, with commonly used motherboards, then don't call it a compatibility list. Call it a "might fit or might not fit, depending...." list. Some of the suggestions here are ridiculous. I can't buy multiple cases and mount my mobo in each one and measure to see if the cooler was fit and then return the ones that don't work.

Eh ... maybe I'll design an external fan cage and have it 3D printed.... KInda what I was trying to avoid going with an AIO unit.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> All I'm saying is, if you aren't certifying that the cooler will work with the case generally, with commonly used motherboards, then don't call it a compatibility list. Call it a "might fit or might not fit, depending...." list. Some of the suggestions here are ridiculous. I can't buy multiple cases and mount my mobo in each one and measure to see if the cooler was fit and then return the ones that don't work.
> 
> Eh ... maybe I'll design an external fan cage and have it 3D printed.... KInda what I was trying to avoid going with an AIO unit.


I understand your frustration, but if all motherboards were built the same it wouldn't be an issue. I did my best to select one that would create the most issues for installation and I'm sorry if it doesn't fit your particular situation.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I'll see if I can get you some information about Microcenter tomorrow. I'm at home right now and I don't have that information off of the top of my head. I think I was forwarded something today, I just don't remember the particulars.


thank you, sir, I asked about the h220 and a rep told me he did not know anything about it so if it's releasing next week, I should expect it in about 2 months in store


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> All I'm saying is, if you aren't certifying that the cooler will work with the case generally, with commonly used motherboards, then don't call it a compatibility list. Call it a "might fit or might not fit, depending...." list. Some of the suggestions here are ridiculous. I can't buy multiple cases and mount my mobo in each one and measure to see if the cooler was fit and then return the ones that don't work.
> 
> Eh ... maybe I'll design an external fan cage and have it 3D printed.... KInda what I was trying to avoid going with an AIO unit.


You're misunderstanding what was said. No one said anything about you buying other cases and trying them out. [email protected] (BramSLI1)said that he can't buy all motherboards and test them in every chassis. However, the compatibilty list means that the unit WILL fit in the chassis with several motherboards. It doesn't mean it will fit with all. Bryan did say that he test it with a motherboard with a larger heatsink though, so more than likely this unit will fit your motherboard and case.

Can you tell us which motherboard we have? Maybe we can find some dimensions online and try to verify for sure if it will fit in your situation.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> All I'm saying is, if you aren't certifying that the cooler will work with the case generally, with commonly used motherboards, then don't call it a compatibility list. Call it a "might fit or might not fit, depending...." list. Some of the suggestions here are ridiculous. I can't buy multiple cases and mount my mobo in each one and measure to see if the cooler was fit and then return the ones that don't work.
> 
> Eh ... maybe I'll design an external fan cage and have it 3D printed.... KInda what I was trying to avoid going with an AIO unit.


Sounds like you got a bit of agro son!
If you are really curious about if it will fit in cases or not.
Why not wait a month or two, until a greater amount of people have them, picture them etc, so that you can then see if it will fit with yours.
Usually a company won't even give a compatibility list.
Do you see one at Antec? No, but I own it, measured the rad and figured it will fit in my case.

You got exact dimensions for a reason. Use them. Simple as.


----------



## MeanBruce

One other point of view I'm hearing over and again is just get one of these XSPC Raystorm water kits.

The Swiftech H220 is going to sell for $139.99USD

The Swiftech H320 is going to sell for $159.99USD

The Raystorm RS360 kit is also $159.99 with 360mm radiator.

This XSPC Raystorm RS240 custom water kit (photos below) is only $144.99USD, plus fluid.

My plan was to buy a Swiftech H320 and then cut refit the hose so it's not dangling over the video card.

I don't know what I'm going to do now, pulling my hair out over this, but this XSPC Raystorm kit is looking better and better. I never planned on using the stock fans from any of the kits anyway, so maybe a little bird is telling me I may already be competent enough to go with a custom water kit and really have passed that time when a CLC or All in One would be a better choice, at least for me.

The only difference is the H220 is pre-assembled, other than that it's just a kit, who the hell are we trying to fool here?

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_202_972&products_id=34961

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_202_972&products_id=34962


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I understand your frustration, but if all motherboards were built the same it wouldn't be an issue. I did my best to select one that would create the most issues for installation and I'm sorry if it doesn't fit your particular situation.


Instead of using a certain board and measuring to it, just measure from top of case to top of motherboard PCB to be safe. I cant think of any boards that have heatsinks or ram slots positioned higher then the top of the PCB.

You don't even need a board installed to do that. Measure from the center of the top mobo mounting screw hole to the top of the case. There is ~6mm from the center of the hole to the top of the PCB. So take whatever you measure, and subtract 6mm. Pretty much a guaranteed fit.

The H220 is just under 54mm thick, so you need at least 60mm from center of top mounting screw to roof of case to know it will fit.

Obviously, with certain boards and cases that have offset mounting holes, you could fit it in cases with less space, but to be safe Id say 60mm.


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> One other point of view I'm hearing over and again is just get one of these XSPC Raystorm water kits.
> 
> The Swiftech H220 is going to sell for $139.99USD
> 
> The Swiftech H320 is going to sell for $159.99USD
> 
> The Raystorm RS360 kit is also $159.99 with 360mm radiator.
> 
> This XSPC Raystorm RS240 custom water kit is only $144.99USD, plus fluid.
> 
> My plan was to buy a Swiftech H320 and then cut refit the hose so it's not dangling over the video card.
> 
> I don't know what I'm going to do now, pulling my hair out over this, but this XSPC Raystorm kit is looking better and better. I never planned on using the stock fans from any of the kits anyway, so maybe a little bird is telling me I may already be competent enough to go with a custom water kit and really have passed that time when a CLC or All in One would be a better choice, at least for me.
> 
> The only difference is the H220 is pre-assembled, other than that it's just a kit, who the hell are we trying to fool here?
> 
> http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_202_972&products_id=34961
> 
> http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_202_972&products_id=34962


The pump in the Swiftech unit is afaik still better then the 750 pump. Plus you have to have room for the dual bay res, and some don't.

Also, the RS rads aren't that good. The RX240 kit for $175 is what Ive been considering. However because I have two MCW80 blocks which are really restrictive, the 750 pump probably wouldn't handle that well.

So basically you would pay $175 ($35 more) for a slightly cooler running kit, but weaker pump, and not get the PWM splitter or Helix fans. The fans in the XSPC kit are pretty, meh.


----------



## mark_thaddeus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> One other point of view I'm hearing over and again is just get one of these XSPC Raystorm water kits.
> 
> The Swiftech H220 is going to sell for $139.99USD
> 
> The Swiftech H320 is going to sell for $159.99USD
> 
> The Raystorm RS360 kit is also $159.99 with 360mm radiator.
> 
> This XSPC Raystorm RS240 custom water kit is only $144.99USD, plus fluid.
> 
> My plan was to buy a Swiftech H320 and then cut refit the hose so it's not dangling over the video card.
> 
> I don't know what I'm going to do now, pulling my hair out over this, but this XSPC Raystorm kit is looking better and better. I never planned on using the stock fans from any of the kits anyway, so maybe a little bird is telling me I may already be competent enough to go with a custom water kit and really have passed that time when a CLC or All in One would be a better choice, at least for me.
> 
> The only difference is the H220 is pre-assembled, other than that it's just a kit, who the hell are we trying to fool here?
> 
> http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_202_972&products_id=34961
> 
> http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=59_202_972&products_id=34962


I think the one big difference is, you use less space with the H220 since you don't need a res / the pump mounted separately since it's built into the system. Even if you expand it, you can just get an extra rad with a built in RES as well and I think it would be fine.

Looking at martinsliquidlab.org the XSPC Raystorm X2O 750 RS240 Extreme performed the same as the H220 when using GT-AP15s. So the fans you get with the H220 are better by less than 1*C more or less (43.48*C vs 44.37*C) when compared using stock fans plus they are more quiet comparatively.

For what it's worth the pump on the H220 is rated at 60,000 MTBF which is even higher rated than the DDC pumps from Laing. So is the $5 dollar difference worth it? It's entirely up to you!


----------



## AdamMT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> Instead of using a certain board and measuring to it, just measure from top of case to top of motherboard PCB to be safe. I cant think of any boards that have heatsinks or ram slots positioned higher then the top of the PCB.
> 
> You don't even need a board installed to do that. Measure from the center of the top mobo mounting screw hole to the top of the case. There is ~6mm from the center of the hole to the top of the PCB. So take whatever you measure, and subtract 6mm. Pretty much a guaranteed fit.
> 
> The H220 is just under 54mm thick, so you need at least 60mm from center of top mounting screw to roof of case to know it will fit.
> 
> Obviously, with certain boards and cases that have offset mounting holes, you could fit it in cases with less space, but to be safe Id say 60mm.


Exactly. A case should only be listed as compatible, without reservation, if the radiator does not overhang the motherboard at all. Otherwise you can only certify specific case/motherboard combinations.

FYI, I'm using an Asus Sabertooth X79 which has some chunky heatsinks on the VRM and a big honkin' assembly around the i/o ports.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Exactly. A case should only be listed as compatible, without reservation, if the radiator does not overhang the motherboard at all. Otherwise you can only certify specific case/motherboard combinations.
> 
> FYI, I'm using an Asus Sabertooth X79 which has some chunky heatsinks on the VRM and a big honkin' assembly around the i/o ports.


Yes, because that's how every other company is doing it









. While it says on the site that it's compatible, it also clearly shows the fan overhanging the motherboard. Should have looked closer to verify if you were expecting otherwise.

FWIW, after looking at the Sabertooth x79 on Newegg it looks to me like it'll fit anyway. This thing fits most cases while overhanging the 8 pin EPS connector, which after being plugged in would hang out about the same height as the Mosfet coolers. You'd just have to plug in the 8 pin before mounting the rad.

To make it easier and more likely, you can mount the H220 slightly offset from it's original holes, as seen in this video at the 20:40 mark with an H100, which is the same width and less than 3mm thinner in thickness


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mark_thaddeus*
> 
> I think the one big difference is, you use less space with the H220 since you don't need a res / the pump mounted separately since it's built into the system. Even if you expand it, you can just get an extra rad with a built in RES as well and I think it would be fine.
> 
> Looking at martinsliquidlab.org the XSPC Raystorm X2O 750 RS240 Extreme performed the same as the H220 when using GT-AP15s. So the fans you get with the H220 are better by less than 1*C more or less (43.48*C vs 44.37*C) when compared using stock fans plus they are more quiet comparatively.
> 
> For what it's worth the pump on the H220 is rated at 60,000 MTBF which is even higher rated than the DDC pumps from Laing. So is the $5 dollar difference worth it? It's entirely up to you!


this. I would prefer to not have a res taking up so much space and disturb the front fascia of my drive-less rig.

but other than that the raystorm kit is a good alternative.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> this. I would prefer to not have a res taking up so much space and disturb the front fascia of my drive-less rig.
> 
> but other than that the raystorm kit is a good alternative.


This, the longer warranty, and the sweet 8 way splitter(saves me $10, as I don't have enough headers to do a P/P rad without a splitter) are the main reason's I'm choosing Swiftech over the Raystorm.

If you like the bay res look than the raystorm is a great alternative for sure.


----------



## AdamMT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Yes, because that's how every other company is doing it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . While it says on the site that it's compatible, it also clearly shows the fan overhanging the motherboard. Should have looked closer to verify if you were expecting otherwise.
> 
> FWIW, after looking at the Sabertooth x79 on Newegg it looks to me like it'll fit anyway. This thing fits most cases while overhanging the 8 pin EPS connector, which after being plugged in would hang out about the same height as the Mosfet coolers. You'd just have to plug in the 8 pin before mounting the rad.
> 
> To make it easier and more likely, you can mount the H220 slightly offset from it's original holes, as seen in this video at the 20:40 mark with an H100, which is the same width and less than 3mm thinner in thickness


Thanks for the thoughts and the video. That might just work. might even just drill some extra holes to move it even farther out.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Can you return the case and get a different like the Fractal Arc Midi R2. Easily supports 60mm thick 240 rads in push/pull on top and front.
http://www.fractal-design.com/?view=product&category=2&prod=113


----------



## msgclb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Yes, because that's how every other company is doing it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . While it says on the site that it's compatible, it also clearly shows the fan overhanging the motherboard. Should have looked closer to verify if you were expecting otherwise.
> 
> FWIW, after looking at the Sabertooth x79 on Newegg it looks to me like it'll fit anyway. This thing fits most cases while overhanging the 8 pin EPS connector, which after being plugged in would hang out about the same height as the Mosfet coolers. You'd just have to plug in the 8 pin before mounting the rad.
> 
> To make it easier and more likely, you can mount the H220 slightly offset from it's original holes, as seen in this video at the 20:40 mark with an H100, which is the same width and less than 3mm thinner in thickness.


I noticed in the video he said a 280mm rad would fit in the front if it had 15mm fan spacing.

There's at least one, an XSPC EX280.

That leads to the question of why does the Swiftech MCR240-QP have 16mm fan spacing? What case does it fit?


----------



## Neo Zuko

I'd rather have a Swiftech H220/H320 than a XSPC kit myself. The bow on that Raystorm is too much unless you use Indigo Extreme (from Sterns testing), and the Swiftech mounting system is way better allowing you to get a more reliable mount repeatedly with no second guessing on the mount pressure (also from Sterns testing). Not to mention the Swiftech built in res is nicer and more compact. And yep, way better pump on the Swiftech. Swivel fittings on the Swiftech, better fans, PWM splitter, and better pre filled fluid.


----------



## brfield

I will be getting one (possibly 2) of these for my next build once I am done with training and have a stationing. By then, Haswell will be out, this will be readily available, and I will add to it.

Thinking of getting this, adding another radiator with these helix fans, a clear reservoir, cooling my GPU (which I hope to be a 7950 (maybe in crossfire with two of them if I can spare the cash), and replacing the tubing with clear tubing with a either a green or blue liquid.
I want my next build to be nice and quiet, with a touch of light.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Mind my ignorance but what is the h320 vs the h220?


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> Mind my ignorance but what is the h320 vs the h220?


H320=360mm (3 x 120mm fans) rad
H220=240mm (2 x 120mm fans) rad


----------



## Greenback

anyone not sure if it will fit easy solution cardboard and


my haf x has the same issue with thick 360 rads and motherboards it's what I used b4 buying rad


----------



## MiwaPi

Linus's review of the H220 is up on youtube: here. Although, it was already mentioned, anyone else surprised by the 20 degree difference between using the stock Helix fans compared to the NF-F12s?


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MiwaPi*
> 
> Linus's review of the H220 is up on youtube: here. Although, it was already mentioned, anyone else surprised by the 20 degree difference between using the stock Helix fans compared to the NF-F12s?


That's way too drastic of a temp difference for a change in fans. Id expect that much comparing to no fans at all. Or comparing the Helixs to 35mm 5k rpm fans or something.

Ugh, cant wait for this to come out just to test it myself








About to go ahead and order another H100i just for comparison. Really wanted to go full custom loop, but doing this will set my funding for that back a bit.


----------



## Greenback

at stock the h100i on medium (not full) got 64c this gets 82c it's actually a worse result then ttl showed
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> That's way too drastic of a temp difference for a change in fans. Id expect that much comparing to no fans at all. Or comparing the Helixs to 35mm 5k rpm fans or something.


I'd have to agree with that statement


----------



## Totally Dubbed

So sp120s would be better than the stock fans?


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> at stock the h100i on medium (not full) got 64c this gets 82c it's actually a worse result then ttl showed
> I'd have to agree with that statement


Oh good Lord...

It's equal to or (depending on the exact scenario) better than a Corsair AFAIK, and frankly, I'll jump off a tall bridge before I put anything with Corsair Link in my build. Seen the horror stories with the AX1200i's killing entire systems? The H100i's shutting down from bad feedback? I'm good, thanks.
I'll wait for more results anyway, and also for someone to give the technical explanation why the fans weren't run properly to give the system proper airflow. That's the only possible explanation for a 20 degree difference in temps @ load.
Call me a Swiftech fanboy or not, but I actually OWN a old Corsair 120 AIO right now, so that's bunk...









Thanks - T


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MiwaPi*
> 
> Linus's review of the H220 is up on youtube: here. Although, it was already mentioned, anyone else surprised by the 20 degree difference between using the stock Helix fans compared to the NF-F12s?


Guys, as I mentioned earlier, Linus was clearly joking about the 20*C temp difference, hence his







at the end of his post.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *msgclb*
> 
> I noticed in the video he said a 280mm rad would fit in the front if it had 15mm fan spacing.
> There's at least one, an XSPC EX280.
> 
> That leads to the question of why does the Swiftech MCR240-QP have 16mm fan spacing? What case does it fit?


It will also fit any case with standard 15mm spacing







. The difference is that small.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Guys, as I mentioned earlier, Linus was clearly joking about the 20*C temp difference, hence his
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> at the end of his post.


I am not sure what you are talking about, the video shows that the stock fans on the H220 are throw away and have to be replaced and you get 20c better. I think this issue needs to be addressed, maybe they got bad stock fans for their test, or installed them wrong? New fans puts the cost of the H220 up to 185.
Edit: to be clear this video has me excited, I like NF F12 fans, and the results are awesome. It just seems like something went wrong in their stock fan test.


----------



## psycow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Guys, as I mentioned earlier, Linus was clearly joking about the 20*C temp difference, hence his
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> at the end of his post.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlPSGh26Ne0XdHZweHoxckRqazBvM0RTMW5GSFZNRmc&usp=sharing#gid=0
Clearly he wasnt joking

Quote:


> I'm going to keep this pretty short & sweet. Mostly because it's late and I'm tired.
> 
> Our chart for performance is linked here: http://tinyurl.com/bagtchs
> 
> We tested separately with two Swiftech H220s. I think part of the reason it's loud and can perform poorly out of the box is that the fans are not really as "beefy" as some aftermarket ones that are available, and the pump in SO beefy that it keeps circulating bubbles around the loop endlessly unless you turn it down, which can cause extra noise and affect performance of the pump itself.
> 
> Once we got this bad boy running correctly it really showed it's strength. It's more expensive than other all-in-one coolers, but with the exception of the fans which didn't impress us too much, this H220 uses DRAMATICALLY higher quality materials than any other pre-filled liquid cooling kit AND gives users the option to upgrade to a true enthusiast class custom loop in the future (more pumps reservoir, GPU blocks, radiators etc) if they want to.
> 
> So yeah, we initially were very disappointed, but we KNEW that we had to be doing something wrong, so once we figured it out, everything made much more sense. Hopefully you guys can help us spread the word about how to correctly optimize the H220 to make it the AIO liquid cooler performance king!
> 
> EDITOR'S CHOICE AWARD


http://linustechtips.com/main/news-reviews-article-guides/linus-videos-news-and-ramblings/108276-swiftech-h220-water-cooler-video-review


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psycow*
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlPSGh26Ne0XdHZweHoxckRqazBvM0RTMW5GSFZNRmc&usp=sharing#gid=0
> Clearly he wasnt joking


I wish only one thing - him to test the h100i with the STOCK fans of the H220.
I'll try and get my comment thumbed up for him to do that


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> I wish only one thing - him to test the h100i with the STOCK fans of the H220.
> I'll try and get my comment thumbed up for him to do that


corsair h100i with stock they do better then with f12's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNEuSRc6xt8


----------



## spikexp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Guys, as I mentioned earlier, Linus was clearly joking about the 20*C temp difference, hence his
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> at the end of his post.


No, he is not. Look at is review.


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psycow*
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlPSGh26Ne0XdHZweHoxckRqazBvM0RTMW5GSFZNRmc&usp=sharing#gid=0
> Clearly he wasnt joking


Honestly, those fans could nearly make frost in my case, and I still couldn't use them. They are soooooo ugly. Normally I wouldn't let aesthetics get in the way of performance but the noctua color scheme is just obnoxious. I once saw somebody describe the Noctua color scheme as being modeled after Obi Wan Kenobi's wardrobe. Sadly, it is worse than that. I wonder how many more fans they would sell if they made the fans in all black.


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> Honestly, those fans could nearly make frost in my case, and I still couldn't use them. They are soooooo ugly. Normally I wouldn't let aesthetics get in the way of performance but the noctua color scheme is just obnoxious. I once saw somebody describe the Noctua color scheme as being modeled after Obi Wan Kenobi's wardrobe. Sadly, it is worse than that. I wonder how many more fans they would sell if they made the fans in all black.


I definitely agree.

However, I might be tempted to take some spray paint to it lol.


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> Honestly, those fans could nearly make frost in my case, and I still couldn't use them. They are soooooo ugly. Normally I wouldn't let aesthetics get in the way of performance but the noctua color scheme is just obnoxious. I once saw somebody describe the Noctua color scheme as being modeled after Obi Wan Kenobi's wardrobe. Sadly, it is worse than that. I wonder how many more fans they would sell if they made the fans in all black.


THIS.

Call me fickle, but if I'm going for looks, beauty, as well as performance, and I'm NOT going full custom WC anyway, these aren't going in my new rig... ANYWHERE... they're *obnoxious* to say the least!









Thanks - T


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> I definitely agree.
> 
> However, I might be tempted to take some spray paint to it lol.


Yeah. Maybe. the only problem is the corner edges are rubber, and spray paint will have a hard time sticking to that. After a while you will have spray paint chips floating around in your case. Also, some people believe putting even a light coat of paint on a fan will affect its functionality. I believe the fan will be affected, however I dont know how measureable that change actually is. It may be so insignificant to not matter at all. It would be nice to get testing done on that. Take a stock fan, test it, then spray the same fan, and test for temps. this would also have to be retested down the load as the spraypaint may have more of a long term effect rather than a short term one. Either way, Notcua's color scheme is just plain awful.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> corsair h100i with stock they do better then with f12's
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNEuSRc6xt8


So the h100i gets reduced by 8c if used with the Noctua fans.
And that's with STOCK corsair fans, and not stock H220 ones.

So long story short the h220 pertforms better.
I want a noise test, by one of these independent reviewers.

As for the TTL review:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPfLKkyIJOI

I completely agree with him on every point.
As for his testing - as you can see, it was correct as Linus can confirm on that too with his results.

I'll think about the H220 now, and see if I really want or need it.
I'm quite tempted to get it to be honest.

Only thing is, is that I don't have anyone that wants my antec 920 - so it would be a waste of money to invest in a new cooler and not sell off the "old" one


----------



## bvsbutthd101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> Honestly, those fans could nearly make frost in my case, and I still couldn't use them. They are soooooo ugly. Normally I wouldn't let aesthetics get in the way of performance but the noctua color scheme is just obnoxious. I once saw somebody describe the Noctua color scheme as being modeled after Obi Wan Kenobi's wardrobe. Sadly, it is worse than that. I wonder how many more fans they would sell if they made the fans in all black.


That's the beauty of paint lol


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> So the h100i gets reduced by 8c if used with the Noctua fans.
> And that's with STOCK corsair fans, and not stock H220 ones.
> 
> So long story short the h220 pertforms better.
> I want a noise test, by one of these independent reviewers.
> 
> As for the TTL review:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPfLKkyIJOI
> 
> I completely agree with him on every point.
> As for his testing - as you can see, it was correct as Linus can confirm on that too with his results.
> 
> I'll think about the H220 now, and see if I really want or need it.
> I'm quite tempted to get it to be honest.
> 
> Only thing is, is that I don't have anyone that wants my antec 920 - so it would be a waste of money to invest in a new cooler and not sell off the "old" one


...Except for the random rant about the tubes being to long on an AIO that's meant to be customizeable / expandable? I took umbrage to that part, particularly...









Thanks - T


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrasher1016*
> 
> ...Except for the random rant about the tubes being to long on an AIO that's meant to be customizeable / expandable? I took umbrage to that part, particularly...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks - T


well yes, but if you are going to EXPAND it - you would buy your own tubes and lengths.

I feel his point on tube lengths makes sense.
I like my cooling system to be nice and tidy - even my Antec 920 ones I feel are a little long!

The reason the tubes are long is as the rad can be mounted as the FRONT of the case too - in some cases.
However most people mount it at the top -so maybe it would have been wiser to have shorter cables.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

I see flaws in the results. Which makes me think something is wrong with his tests.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlPSGh26Ne0XdHZweHoxckRqazBvM0RTMW5GSFZNRmc&usp=sharing#gid=0

H110 beats the X60, where both of them are 100% identical. 4c is not small difference.
Having a 20c difference from Helix and Noctua fans is big, and something is very wrong.


----------



## spikexp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *MiwaPi*
> 
> Linus's review of the H220 is up on youtube: here. Although, it was already mentioned, anyone else surprised by the 20 degree difference between using the stock Helix fans compared to the NF-F12s?
> 
> 
> 
> You know he was joking about it.
Click to expand...

Stop. No he isn't joking. Is data show a 20 degree difference...
Now everybody is bashing the helix 120...


----------



## chronicfx

Perhaps this was answered already. Any hint at a release timeline for the H320? By summer, By end of summer or By christmas as an answer would be fine if you don't want to give away too much. I have room for a triple RAD up top so I would be interested in that particular product.


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> well yes, but if you are going to EXPAND it - you would buy your own tubes and lengths.
> 
> I feel his point on tube lengths makes sense.
> I like my cooling system to be nice and tidy - even my Antec 920 ones I feel are a little long!
> 
> The reason the tubes are long is as the rad can be mounted as the FRONT of the case too - in some cases.
> However most people mount it at the top -so maybe it would have been wiser to have shorter cables.


I'll bite and say TRIM!









I will probably be doing that after swapping to clear tubes and UV green fluid!

Thanks - T


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrasher1016*
> 
> I'll bite and say TRIM!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will probably be doing that after swapping to clear tubes and UV green fluid!
> 
> Thanks - T


haha cool








Yeah I do want clear tubes myself - with WHITE or BLUE interior...that would be very cool.


----------



## chronicfx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> haha cool
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I do want clear tubes myself - with WHITE or BLUE interior...that would be very cool.


Are you picking one of these up TD? Post your temps in the de-lidded thread after you install it I wanna see this with some CLU/CLP on your chip


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> That's way too drastic of a temp difference for a change in fans. Id expect that much comparing to no fans at all. Or comparing the Helixs to 35mm 5k rpm fans or something.
> 
> Ugh, cant wait for this to come out just to test it myself
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About to go ahead and order another H100i just for comparison. Really wanted to go full custom loop, but doing this will set my funding for that back a bit.


When the 20 degree differenece was brought up earlier this is what I said as well. I'll take Martin's results, showing a slight(1-2 degree) difference. I mean, I doubt the cheapest fans compared to a noctua probably wouldn give you a 20 degree difference, any air moving at all should prevent that large of a difference on a single 240 loop. Maybe if you had like 480 rad with 8 p/p fans it'd make that drastic of a difference.


----------



## Avonosac

There is no way I believe fan choice from a ~55 CFM fan to a slightly less 55 CFM fan nets 20c difference. They did something _wrong_.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> There is no way I believe fan choice from a ~55 CFM fan to a slightly less 55 CFM fan nets 20c difference. They did something _wrong_.


static pressure perhaps? The Helix fans have fairly less static pressure than even GT AP-15s, and the Noctuas have about the same.

edited.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> static pressure perhaps? The Helix fans have fairly less static pressure than even GT AP-15s, and the Noctuas have about the same.
> 
> edited.


They are actually similar ranges... Yes slightly lower but not that much lower.

I actually just thought of this, maybe the both of them assembled all the fans on the PWM switch and put them on a single header. You do that, when you turn down the RPM you're turning down the pump. If they reduced the flow in the loop well below what you need, I can see temps spiking like this.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> They are actually similar ranges... Yes slightly lower but not that much lower.
> 
> I actually just thought of this, maybe the both of them assembled all the fans on the PWM switch and put them on a single header. You do that, when you turn down the RPM you're turning down the pump. If they reduced the flow in the loop well below what you need, I can see temps spiking like this.


Come to think of it I was thinking the same thing. Linus really didn't get into how he had the fans powered and this could have a significant difference in terms of performance.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> They are actually similar ranges... Yes slightly lower but not that much lower.
> 
> I actually just thought of this, maybe the both of them assembled all the fans on the PWM switch and put them on a single header. You do that, when you turn down the RPM you're turning down the pump. If they reduced the flow in the loop well below what you need, I can see temps spiking like this.


They would have to turn the fans VERY low, under 30%, for that to happen. The pump, even at 30%, has more than enough power to have almost no difference on temps. The temp differences are so extreme that I don't even know what they could do wrong. My first instinct would be that they had faulty fans...but you think they would realize if they had 2 faulty fans.

Essentially, Linux is claiming that the Noctua's have an 18c advantage on the GT AP15's, as Martin's testing on http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/01/27/swiftech-h220-prefilled-2x120mm-water-cooling-kit/7/
show a 1.8 degree difference between GT AP15's and the Helix fans. I don't know what went wrong, but somewhere someone(maybe even Martin) went wrong.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> They would have to turn the fans VERY low, under 30%, for that to happen. The pump, even at 30%, has more than enough power to have almost no difference on temps. The temp differences are so extreme that I don't even know what they could do wrong. My first instinct would be that they had faulty fans...but you think they would realize if they had 2 faulty fans.
> 
> Essentially, Linux is claiming that the Noctua's have an 18c advantage on the GT AP15's, as Martin's testing on http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/01/27/swiftech-h220-prefilled-2x120mm-water-cooling-kit/7/
> show a 1.8 degree difference between GT AP15's and the Helix fans. I don't know what went wrong, but somewhere someone(maybe even Martin) went wrong.


It could also be that when Linus set it up with our fans he didn't have a proper contact between the processor and our block. Either that or the pump was somehow not running. Using different fans are not going to make a 20 degree difference in the same testing environment. It just isn't possible.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> It could also be that when Linus set it up with our fans he didn't have a proper contact between the processor and our block. Either that or the pump was somehow not running. Using different fans are not going to make a 20 degree difference in the same testing environment. It just isn't possible.


If the processor and the block doesn't have proper contact then temps would sore high even with the Noctua fans, right?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> If the processor and the block doesn't have proper contact then temps would sore high even with the Noctua fans, right?


Yes, unless he reseated the block between tests, which I hope he wouldn't do as that would have a bigger difference than the fans would between tests.


----------



## justanoldman

As of now is there any confirmed place to purchase the H220 in the U.S. next week beside the Swiftech website? It sounds like if Micro Center and/or Amazon carry it, we would have to wait weeks or months.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chronicfx*
> 
> Are you picking one of these up TD? Post your temps in the de-lidded thread after you install it I wanna see this with some CLU/CLP on your chip


Might do bro - first I'm going to sort out my Motherboard issue, then move unto cooling.
Going to pop in the Antec 920 right now
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Come to think of it I was thinking the same thing. Linus really didn't get into how he had the fans powered and this could have a significant difference in terms of performance.


Sounds like you need another reviewer to also test vs his Antec 920


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> If the processor and the block doesn't have proper contact then temps would sore high even with the Noctua fans, right?


That would depend on how badly or not the block was seated. As long as there was still some contact it would cool the processor down, just not to optimal performance that the block is capable of. I once installed a CPU block on a processor without removing the plastic protective covering. I know, a really noobish thing to do. Anyway, it still worked, but my temps were about 20 to 25 degrees higher than they were once I reinstalled the block with the plastic removed.


----------



## Scorpion667

So it's end of February and I have found zero availability for the H220. I have 5 client builds pending for these kits and can't wait much longer, please provide an update on the product page else we will have to opt with competitor AIO's due to time constraints.


----------



## chronicfx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> As of now is there any confirmed place to purchase the H220 in the U.S. next week beside the Swiftech website? It sounds like if Micro Center and/or Amazon carry it, we would have to wait weeks or months.


I am going to say frozencpu and xoxide should have it


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> That would depend on how badly or not the block was seated. As long as there was still some contact it would cool the processor down, just not to optimal performance that the block is capable of. I once installed a CPU block on a processor without removing the plastic protective covering. I know, a really noobish thing to do. Anyway, it still worked, but my temps were about 20 to 25 degrees higher than they were once I reinstalled the block with the plastic removed.


Lol. You were lucky that the plastic didn't end up burning and sticking/damaging the block


----------



## gsk3rd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> So it's end of February and I have found zero availability for the H220. I have 5 client builds pending for these kits and can't wait much longer, please provide an update on the product page else we will have to opt with competitor AIO's due to time constraints.


Read a few pages back, Kits should be available 3/4 from the major stores.


----------



## mcnumpty23

is it just the way i am looking at it?

at 55s on the linus video the helix fans look like they would be pulling air up through the rad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVNuN0UcYUQ

yet on swiftech website they look like they would be pushing air down through the rad

could he have mounted the helix fans the opposite way round from the noctuas?


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> is it just the way i am looking at it?
> 
> at 55s on the linus video the helix fans look like they would be pulling air up through the rad
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVNuN0UcYUQ
> 
> yet on swiftech website they look like they would be pushing air down through the rad
> 
> could he have mounted the helix fans the opposite way round from the noctuas?


i noticed that as well but figured he probably put the fans back on without paying attention which way they were facing just to show it in the video.


----------



## Aestylis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> As of now is there any confirmed place to purchase the H220 in the U.S. next week beside the Swiftech website? It sounds like if Micro Center and/or Amazon carry it, we would have to wait weeks or months.


NCIX.US has it.


----------



## guinner16

What concerns me more than the temp difference with fans, is his claim that the pump is LOUD when running full blast. At CES his main point was how quiet the pump was. What gives?


----------



## bvsbutthd101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aestylis*
> 
> NCIX.US has it.


Showing Back Order now.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> What concerns me more than the temp difference with fans, is his claim that the pump is LOUD when running full blast. At CES his main point was how quiet the pump was. What gives?


The pump may be loud when running full blast, but it doesn't have to run at full blast. It is a powerful pump, and most people don't even run its big brother (the AD2) at 3k rpm, which is this things max, because it gets loud.

This pump can easily run your system at 30-50%, with less than a degree difference compared to 100%, and it will be much quieter at that power range. Only if you add a couple of blocks and rads in do you need to turn the power up higher than that.


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> The pump may be loud when running full blast, but it doesn't have to run at full blast. It is a powerful pump, and most people don't even run its big brother (the AD2) at 3k rpm, which is this things max, because it gets loud.
> 
> This pump can easily run your system at 30-50%, with less than a degree difference compared to 100%, and it will be much quieter at that power range. Only if you add a couple of blocks and rads in do you need to turn the power up higher than that.


Very True.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aestylis*
> 
> NCIX.US has it.


Wow, what a deal, $10 more than retail, plus this:
" Final sale. This product cannot be exchanged. No returns or refunds."
They also give no indication when they will carry the product, just that they would be happy to take your money for a product they don't have, and don't know when they will get.

Maybe I was missing the market for this product. The H100i is available everywhere, but something like an EK water block is only at specialty shops. I guess we will have to wait and see if the H220 will be mainstream or specialty only.


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> It could also be that when Linus set it up with our fans he didn't have a proper contact between the processor and our block. Either that or the pump was somehow not running. Using different fans are not going to make a 20 degree difference in the same testing environment. It just isn't possible.


Saying Linus didn't have proper contact between Cpu and Block would probably be bottom of my list. He has done dozens of reviews, I am pretty confident he has set it up correctly. I am beginning to question if he had a bad unit maybe? I think i heard somewhere in the video that he had two units? 20 degrees is a big difference but when they were all running the same noctua fans you can see much closer results.H220 does stomp on its competition,not so sure about the helix fans not really digging at this moment. Going to wait and see what happens with the h320


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> What concerns me more than the temp difference with fans, is his claim that the pump is LOUD when running full blast. At CES his main point was how quiet the pump was. What gives?


He said it was loud at full speed if am not mistaken. At CeS they were set at a much lower RpM. He even shows you when he set it at a lower Rpm with the Noctua fans and how quiet the unit was....


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> What concerns me more than the temp difference with fans, is his claim that the pump is LOUD when running full blast. At CES his main point was how quiet the pump was. What gives?


CES demos were probably being PWM controlled. As you can see from linus' results the a reduced speed produces a negligible change in temperature in its out of box state. The capability of increased speed is a benefit when you start adding more blocks and radiators to the loop.


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chronicfx*
> 
> I am going to say frozencpu and xoxide should have it


THIS.

Swiftech Reps already said that they don't have a deal with Amazon, so nothing doing there, at least not short term.

Thanks - T


----------



## Dizz22r

I was hoping this product would come out the gates strong through some of the big reviewers because most of us watch their videos. Linus and TTl not showing very good results is a bummer. I really do think this is the way to go for AIO towards custom. If SWIFTECH feels they are testing their product wrong they should contact them immediately for a revision review of their unit on how to set it up, So we can clear all the bad water!

I personally think TTL would of got better results on the h220 if he used different fans and it would of probably stomped like Linus video showed. I think the fans are to blame in my opinion.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlPSGh26Ne0XdHZweHoxckRqazBvM0RTMW5GSFZNRmc&usp=sharing#gid=0


----------



## guinner16

The good thing about these reviews is it makes me feel better about using my xilence 2cf fans. If the fans are the issue then hopefully the xilence ones will be equal or a little better.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> The good thing about these reviews is it makes me feel better about using my xilence 2cf fans. If the fans are the issue then hopefully the xilence ones will be equal or a little better.


Make sure you test with both and post back. In fact, everyone who buys one please use the stock fans at least once so we can have a decent amount of results showing how well they perform.

Every day I get more and more nervous that the h220 will sellout before I can buy one. The 3rd/4th need to come so I can buy the h220 and have my worries removed!


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Make sure you test with both and post back. In fact, everyone who buys one please use the stock fans at least once so we can have a decent amount of results showing how well they perform.
> 
> Every day I get more and more nervous that the h220 will sellout before I can buy one. The 3rd/4th need to come so I can buy the h220 and have my worries removed!


You won't want my results. this is my first build and do not have the experience to post valid results. Like you, I am also very curious about other peoples results.


----------



## Phelan

I'm just glad I've got one on the way







.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> I'm just glad I've got a gently used one on the way
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .












Keep your good news to yourself!


----------



## enilsen16

Has anyone seen a comparison between the Cooler Master Seidon 240M and the H220? Cant decide which one to buy.


----------



## justanoldman

We will not be able to place pre orders with Switech, and they hope to being selling them by the end of next week. That means the earliest you can hope to have one is about two weeks from now.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> I was hoping this product would come out the gates strong through some of the big reviewers because most of us watch their videos. Linus and TTl not showing very good results is a bummer. I really do think this is the way to go for AIO towards custom. If SWIFTECH feels they are testing their product wrong they should contact them immediately for a revision review of their unit on how to set it up, So we can clear all the bad water!
> 
> I personally think TTL would of got better results on the h220 if he used different fans and it would of probably stomped like Linus video showed. I think the fans are to blame in my opinion.


I think Gabe already responded to TTL on oc3d - there are points that haven't been clarified AFAIK (such as thermal compound, intake/exhaust/push/pull). TTL said it was a new setup which kind of suggests he had to reapply some kind of TIM on all other AIO's previously tested (those that come with pre-applied TIM). All this could definitely play for a few degrees here and there.

I wish all reviewers would get somewhat consistent results but as TTL said he can't spend that much time on every review so I suppose we can't expect too much and everyone knows what happens when you're under time pressure...

What Linus has experienced is unclear at this time, we have yet to establish communication with him but I am pretty sure we'll know exactly what happened. I have a few ideas.
I already what it can't be though: 20C between two pretty comparable fans is just plain impossible. We don't even get that kind of difference between a fan running at 500 rpm and another one running at 2000. So it's not the fan. Contact/TIM problem is something that is very possible though - 20C is the kind of variations you would see if there was no thermal compound or if the protective film was left on. Just some random ideas that make sense based on the numbers shown. 20C is a lot, fans and/or pump running at the wrong speed wouldn't even explain that.

I stand behind all the internal testing we've done here (from early stages of prototyping to post production validation), and both of these reviews are too far from where it should, which tells me something's up with either the actual tests, the product or even the methodology.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Question for the Swiftech Reps or anyone who knows for sure:

I want to get 4 of these PWM splitters from Swiftech for my CaseLabs SM8 watercooling build. I have a RIVE (Rampage IV Extreme) mobo which should have all the PWM features I need (I paid enough right?). I will be using 3 big rads, now how would I wire that up? I take it the CPU PWM slot is the best one to use, but it can only handle 8 fans via this Swiftech splitter. I need like 21 PWM slots for 21 Swiftech Helix PWM fans plus 2 PWM slots for a MCP35X2 joined dual PWM pump.

My question is, can I daisy chain all of the Swiftech Splitters off the CPU slot? Not for power per say, but for the PWM signal cable. I don't see why I can't do that, the PWM cable is separate from the power. So I would be essentially sharing the PWM cable with four Swiftech 8-way splitters, and using four separate molex power cables. If that does not work, does my RIVE have better aux PWM support than most or CPU PWM slot like support on the non CPU channels? How would you go about wiring up this?


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> Honestly, those fans could nearly make frost in my case, and I still couldn't use them. They are soooooo ugly. Normally I wouldn't let aesthetics get in the way of performance but the noctua color scheme is just obnoxious. I once saw somebody describe the Noctua color scheme as being modeled after Obi Wan Kenobi's wardrobe. Sadly, it is worse than that. I wonder how many more fans they would sell if they made the fans in all black.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> I definitely agree.
> 
> However, I might be tempted to take some spray paint to it lol.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrasher1016*
> 
> THIS.
> 
> Call me fickle, but if I'm going for looks, beauty, as well as performance, and I'm NOT going full custom WC anyway, these aren't going in my new rig... ANYWHERE... they're *obnoxious* to say the least!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks - T


Painting them effects performance, but dying them doesn't. There is a guide around here somewhere on how to do so. However, I wouldn't do it. A lot of people complain about the color just because its not the typical black, blue, red, green you see in almost everyone's build. Im doing a new build in a few days when the stuff gets here that should fit the color of Noctuas very nicely.
Also its nice when you see a Noctua, you know its a Noctua.

And the rubber mounts are easily removable.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> I see flaws in the results. Which makes me think something is wrong with his tests.
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AlPSGh26Ne0XdHZweHoxckRqazBvM0RTMW5GSFZNRmc&usp=sharing#gid=0
> 
> H110 beats the X60, where both of them are 100% identical. 4c is not small difference.
> Having a 20c difference from Helix and Noctua fans is big, and something is very wrong.


Im not a scientist, and will not even try to say this as fact. But, I don't think compensating for 20C ambient works correctly.

When he tested the H100i it was in 10C ambient. So he added 10C to his temps to make up for it not being 20C. Now that may work fine for air coolers, but I would think a radiator would be more efficient in cooling in cold ambients then warm ambients,
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> They are actually similar ranges... Yes slightly lower but not that much lower.
> 
> I actually just thought of this, maybe the both of them assembled all the fans on the PWM switch and put them on a single header. You do that, when you turn down the RPM you're turning down the pump. If they reduced the flow in the loop well below what you need, I can see temps spiking like this.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Come to think of it I was thinking the same thing. Linus really didn't get into how he had the fans powered and this could have a significant difference in terms of performance.


He said he had the Noctuas plugged in at 7v using the LNAs. He also tested with the pump at 100% and on PWM, and there is virtually no difference.
I would assume he either had the stock fans at 100%, or PWM, either way I don't see it being 20C difference.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> is it just the way i am looking at it?
> 
> at 55s on the linus video the helix fans look like they would be pulling air up through the rad
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVNuN0UcYUQ
> 
> yet on swiftech website they look like they would be pushing air down through the rad
> 
> could he have mounted the helix fans the opposite way round from the noctuas?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> i noticed that as well but figured he probably put the fans back on without paying attention which way they were facing just to show it in the video.


He and Martin, as well as other have shown there is virtually no difference in push vs pull. Pull is used so dust doesn't cake up on the rad. He always uses pull/exhaust orientation.

I guess it could be possible the Helix fans are designed in a way that they don't do as well in pull, but Ive not come across a push vs pull test that shows a noticeable difference.

Ill be testing all of these scenarios when the stuff gets here.


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> I think Gabe already responded to TTL on oc3d - there are points that haven't been clarified AFAIK (such as thermal compound, intake/exhaust/push/pull). TTL said it was a new setup which kind of suggests he had to reapply some kind of TIM on all other AIO's previously tested (those that come with pre-applied TIM). All this could definitely play for a few degrees here and there.
> 
> I wish all reviewers would get somewhat consistent results but as TTL said he can't spend that much time on every review so I suppose we can't expect too much and everyone knows what happens when you're under time pressure...
> 
> What Linus has experienced is unclear at this time, we have yet to establish communication with him but I am pretty sure we'll know exactly what happened. I have a few ideas.
> I already what it can't be though: 20C between two pretty comparable fans is just plain impossible. We don't even get that kind of difference between a fan running at 500 rpm and another one running at 2000. So it's not the fan. Contact/TIM problem is something that is very possible though - 20C is the kind of variations you would see if there was no thermal compound or if the protective film was left on. Just some random ideas that make sense based on the numbers shown. 20C is a lot, fans and/or pump running at the wrong speed wouldn't even explain that.
> 
> I stand behind all the internal testing we've done here (from early stages of prototyping to post production validation), and both of these reviews are too far from where it should, which tells me something's up with either the actual tests, the product or even the methodology.


Yea i seen Gabe's response on OC3D. TTL linked Linus results as well and saying that he pretty much verified his results. I agree 1 test is not enough to determine the factor of the product and some of this reviewers should test them a couple of times before making videos. It is time consuming so i understand what all needs to happen. I think for your guys sake, is try to attempt to contact at least Linus because TTL seems to be offended by what people were saying about his results. Maybe Walk him through on how you guys set up your unit for the best performance so that they can show the audience and the numbers you guys are getting versus theirs.

As for the 20c is huge and ill go back to what i said before. I think linus said in the video that he had 2 units. My theory:
Unit A- had a bad pump with stock helix fans and that's what he posted for his results
Unit B- Good Pump with Noctua Fans showing Extremely good results


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> Painting them effects performance, but dying them doesn't. There is a guide around here somewhere on how to do so. However, I wouldn't do it. A lot of people complain about the color just because its not the typical black, blue, red, green you see in almost everyone's build. Im doing a new build in a few days when the stuff gets here that should fit the color of Noctuas very nicely.
> Also its nice when you see a Noctua, you know its a Noctua.


Well, a white / black / green color combo on a brand new rig is something I want to stick to, and since I already have LED fans, I'm gonna try to find some good PWM fans with LEDs as well.
Maybe in the long run, since the fans ill be uppermost in my CL S3 case, and be hard to see, I'll throw Noctuas in there, but for now... I have spent time and money getting colors that I want in this rig, so I don't want the fan throwing a monkey wrench in it.







Again, call me fickle.









*SNIP*
Quote:


> Ill be testing all of these scenarios when the stuff gets here.


Good.
I'll still stand with most people (and the ST rep) when I say that IMO, something was _wrong_ in both tests, especially the one where a 20C temp difference was shown.
Sorry, but that's not a fan doing that.









Thanks - T


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrasher1016*
> 
> Well, a white / black / green color combo on a brand new rig is something I want to stick to, and since I already have LED fans, I'm gonna try to find some good PWM fans with LEDs as well.
> Maybe in the long run, since the fans ill be uppermost in my CL S3 case, and be hard to see, I'll throw Noctuas in there, but for now... I have spent time and money getting colors that I want in this rig, so I don't want the fan throwing a monkey wrench in it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, call me fickle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *SNIP*
> 
> Good.
> I'll still stand with most people (and the ST rep) when I say that IMO, something was _wrong_ in both tests, especially the one where a 20C temp difference was shown.
> Sorry, but that's not a fan doing that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks - T


Im all for color themes








I just personally got tired of doing the same blue/black/white theme I used for SO long, and decided to go with black/copper/gold/bronze colors this time. So I can have the great Noctua performance without them looking out of place









I went ahead and ordered an H100i last night. Im hoping to get a hold of a H220 as soon as possible. And have my trusty CNPS20LQ to toss in the comparison as well.


----------



## Avonosac

I'll be rocking the H220 on my titan by next Friday night, most likely. I plan on using all Helix fans in the case, as they go well with my prodigy. I'll post my results when I get them, but as I stated before... I refuse to believe 20c difference.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Question for the Swiftech Reps or anyone who knows for sure:
> 
> I want to get 4 of these PWM splitters from Swiftech for my CaseLabs SM8 watercooling build. I have a RIVE (Rampage IV Extreme) mobo which should have all the PWM features I need (I paid enough right?). I will be using 3 big rads, now how would I wire that up? I take it the CPU PWM slot is the best one to use, but it can only handle 8 fans via this Swiftech splitter. I need like 21 PWM slots for 21 Swiftech Helix PWM fans plus 2 PWM slots for a MCP35X2 joined dual PWM pump.
> 
> My question is, can I daisy chain all of the Swiftech Splitters off the CPU slot? Not for power per say, but for the PWM signal cable. I don't see why I can't do that, the PWM cable is separate from the power. So I would be essentially sharing the PWM cable with four Swiftech 8-way splitters, and using four separate molex power cables. If that does not work, does my RIVE have better aux PWM support than most or CPU PWM slot like support on the non CPU channels? How would you go about wiring up this?


yes you can daisy chain them, just remember only channel 1 has RPM output, so connect your first Splitter channel 1 to whatever device you wish to monitor.


----------



## Kelt

Anyone know if the PWM splitters will be sold in the UK?


----------



## Scorpion667

I'm a bit late to the h220 reviews but TTL's review was pretty biased. I enjoyed watching his videos over the years but he's getting sloppy.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

I bought 2 Helix as I will be running push/pull. I will also use 4x Spectre Pro. I will give my results when I get my H220.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Tom Thumb

Well, as much as I hate to admit it. I've canceled my preorder with NCIX, as I feel I have to wait for the air to clear on the H220. Things are just to foggy for me right now to fork out the $180 it was going to cost me including shipping and taxes up here! Maybe these things are made to be run a certain way that reviewers are not doing, like with pump to fan speed ratios or something. I don't know, but I'm going to sit it out for now.


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> I bought 2 Helix as I will be running push/pull. I will also use 4x Spectre Pro. I will give my results when I get my H220.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


Niiiice... Yeah I like the Spectre series because of the LED options from their line!
I'll look for this when it comes down.









Thanks - T


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> Well, as much as I hate to admit it. I've canceled my preorder with NCIX, as I feel I have to wait for the air to clear on the H220. Things are just to foggy for me right now to fork out the $180 it was going to cost me including shipping and taxes up here! Maybe these things are made to be run a certain way that reviewers are not doing, like with pump to fan speed ratios or something. I don't know, but I'm going to sit it out for now.


more for me


----------



## Ryld Baenre

Linus broke physics. I can't see how the noctua fans make a 20C difference. That means that the Helix fans would be practically not moving :/ Very strange since their specs are pretty similar. ~.4 delta for pressure and ~55 cfm on both.

Do pressure optimised fans make a difference if they are set in a pull configuration? At that point you aren't worrying about any air being forced back through the blades from hitting a "wall". So wouldn't thicker blades be a moot point?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> Well, as much as I hate to admit it. I've canceled my preorder with NCIX, as I feel I have to wait for the air to clear on the H220. Things are just to foggy for me right now to fork out the $180 it was going to cost me including shipping and taxes up here! Maybe these things are made to be run a certain way that reviewers are not doing, like with pump to fan speed ratios or something. I don't know, but I'm going to sit it out for now.


That's the weird thing: they aren't. If you read most reviews they work just fine by plugging in and adjusting your PWM control to whatever sound level you like, presto you are done. Only TTL and Linux have had any issues at all. Even Anand, a review many of us didn't like the way they tested, didn't have nearly as weird of results. Feel free to wait, I'm sure once it releases it'll have many positive reviews.

And holy crap, that's a lot of extra cost for $140 unit. Isn't NCIX shipping free if over $100 dollars, or does that only apply to the US store?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

$149.99 is the price. In BC tax is 12%. Shipping varies from $8 to $15 for basic ground. Free shipping is usually sales or reward points.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> We will not be able to place pre orders with Switech, and they hope to being selling them by the end of next week. That means the earliest you can hope to have one is about two weeks from now.


Did I miss something. I thought they were going on sale Monday?


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> Did I miss something. I thought they were going on sale Monday?


Nope, I called them before I posted that. It is what they told me today. Whichever retailer they send it to might get it first but no one will confirm anything.


----------



## prava

Do you understand now why I'm so picky about cooling products being reviewed? If you give this product to the wrong reviewer you will get exactly the OPPOSITE effect you wanted, because you got bad press and, now, you have to fix it just to be back at square one. This sort of products require a good reviewer to highlight whether they are good or not, anybody can do it but you must be truly careful when testing and understand how to do it properly... and such thing requires TIME, lots of it.

*Linus*: he is a cool guy, but cooling solutions are miles ahead of him. You simply know you've screwed up when you get a 20ºC difference simply by switching fans. Also, keep in mind that we have no idea whether he was using the rad as intake or exhaust, or whether the fans were on pull or on push. If the rad was being used as an exhaust + fans on pull... its a worst case scenerio.

Also, it boggles my mind that people complain about the pump being loud... which makes my point even better: why complain about something that can be tuned down with minimal lose in performance? It's clear he has no idea the world he entered, as he has no knowledge of liquid cooled solutions at all.

To finish with him... "we use all the systems with Noctua NF F12 with 7V adapter". Why would you do that?! This is plain stupid... and it also doesn't give any more info so we have no idea whether results are normalized or not.

*TTL:* crappiest review I have ever seen in my life. This guy is an idiot. I'll quote a few bits and pieces, just for fun.
Quote:


> "The pump is the noisiest".


Sure, if you are stupid enough not to use the pwm features Swiftech included...








Quote:


> "Its technically a DDC".


It isn't.
Quote:


> "Its not an AIO unit because you can expand it".


Sure








Quote:


> I don't see the point in buying this


Fantastic, you are given a product to test and you freely bash it... good job.








Quote:


> To be fair I wouldn't use Swiftech rads (while smiling)


Funny, cause Swiftech rads have always been competitive regarding price/performance. They have never been the top dogs... but they were fairly priced.
Quote:


> their standards aren't very high (regarding people praising the H220).


Yes, yours are, I'm sure about it...
---
The only actual usable comment in there is the one regarding the long hosing. THE ONLY ONE. All the other thing is simply bull**** used to bash a company that kindly gave him a product to test.

Also, by the looks of it the H220 seems to be pushing air out instead of pushing air in...

---

*To the Swiftech crew*: what a PR mess. It's funny that the pump gets bashed for being noisy when you handed a pwm-board specifically for such purpose. So, in order to deal with people's incompetence you should "nerf" the pump speed to run at 60% by default and let people unlock it if they wish. As it is, I don't think anybody needs the pump to be running at full blast (or not most) unless you expand the kit. I think it would be wise to have the pump go up in speed instead of down... so that default gets the job done but isn't too noisy.

Good luck on that OC3D forum... I almost made an account to insult the reviewer a little, but its not worth my time to insult somebody that is so stupid to consider other people's standards as "not very high" when he is as crappy of a reviewer as you get.

Ah! I'd choose my reviewers carefully next time, guys...
----

Still, the performance of this product and the fans is undoubtedly there. H220 beating a watercooling kit in both performance AND noise:



H220 showing that the fans used are good:





Real deal in regards to stuff that "cools":

http://martinsliquidlab.org/

This is what I expect when looking at a review:
Quote:


> PHASE 1 "KIT ONLY" TESTING SPECIFICATIONS
> NZXT Switch 810 Full Tower Case, Bottom Mount, Dust Filters Removed (Bottom and Front).
> Case top grill open, Case doors on and close, Case front panel on (filters removed) - Closed Case Testing
> NZXT 140mm 1300RPM case fans, 2 intake front, one recirc, one exhaust back, one exhaust top.
> Corsair TX650 Power Supply
> EVGA 570GTX Air Cooled
> ASrock X79 Extreme 7
> i7-3930K processor, overclocked to 4.5Ghz at 1.344-1.352Vcore, Per CoreTemp this is putting out roughtly 170-182W so it's very aggressive and about double that of many processors.
> Prime 95, Custom Small 8K FTT is started to load 12 worker threads at 100%.
> Thermal Sensor logging: Crystalfontz CFA-633, logs up to 32 temperature probes and up to 4 fan channels: http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/633/index.html
> 2 Air "Ambient" thermal sensors, 1 Air "Out" sensor. 6 core sensors
> Minimum 20min warm up time, likely a 1 hour log minimum. Review and trim stable data.
> Phase 1 testing will be kit only parts, Kit Fans, Kit TIM, Kit everything, no mods.
> Kit TIM using the large "+" method.
> For Kits without fan speed control, I am using my Crystalfontz CFA-633 to adjust fan speed and log fan RPM. This allows precise 1% speed control and the desirable logging capability.


Then you don't have to guess how the results are what they are, you know how he got them because he states every single movement he does, as should everybody do. No idea whats the BS in doing review videos that are useless. I want data, not a guy talking nonsense...

Also, his reviews are a role-model of how reviews should be handled: he barely gives his on opinions, never states anything bad about any company, and never recommends a competing product when testing something.

Ah! Martin is getting an H100i soon


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Nope, I called them before I posted that. It is what they told me today. Whichever retailer they send it to might get it first but no one will confirm anything.


Hopefully we can get a swiftech rep on here to comment. I really hope they go on sale Monday. I will have all the parts for my rig and just be waiting for the H220.


----------



## BrotherJoseph

I'm looking forward to getting my own results hopefully next week.I will test it as-is first, then I will add in my 7950.

I'll make sure to do it by Swiftech's book ;-)


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> Hopefully we can get a swiftech rep on here to comment. I really hope they go on sale Monday. I will have all the parts for my rig and just be waiting for the H220.


Um, OK, but I am not sure why they would contradict the lady who is their sales representative. Feel free to call them, I assume she will give you the same answer she gave me.

They will end up being a couple weeks late, I am not happy at all about that, but I will still buy one. Delays happen, not that big of a deal I guess.


----------



## DMills

GAD

some known perp apparently tried using my credit card account this week to buy himself a ticket to santo domingo, making my bank flag my account...

Now i have to wait for a new credit card before I can buy the H220 grrrrr


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Um, OK, but I am not sure why they would contradict the lady who their sales representative. Feel free to call them, I assume she will give you the same answer she gave me.
> 
> They will end up being a couple weeks late, I am not happy at all about that, but I will still buy one. Delays happen, not that big of a deal I guess.


I understand delays can happen and a delay wouldn't surprise me completely. What surprises me is they are already being sold in other countries, so the delay would have to be in shipping, which a swiftech rep should know about, and be able to comment on it.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> Hopefully we can get a swiftech rep on here to comment. I really hope they go on sale Monday. I will have all the parts for my rig and just be waiting for the H220.


JustAnOldMan spoke with Michelle this morning. The information he received from her is the same information that I would have given. I'm sorry that we can't give anything more specific than that, but it will be available soon.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> I understand delays can happen and a delay wouldn't surprise me completely. What surprises me is they are already being sold in other countries, so the delay would have to be in shipping, which a swiftech rep should know about, and be able to comment on it.


Swiftech just said they expect to be getting the shipment here in the US next week. They will then send them off to retailers, then start selling them on their website. They hope to start taking orders by the end of next week.

Whether buying through them or a retailer is quicker is yet to be determined since no retailer will say when they will have them.


----------



## Aestylis

Just got a reply back from NCIX.US, they don't expect stock until Mid-March.







Oh well, I will just have to cross my fingers and hope I can snag one as soon as they are available elsewhere.


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> JustAnOldMan spoke with Michelle this morning. The information he received from her is the same information that I would have given. I'm sorry that we can't give anything more specific than that, but it will be available soon.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Swiftech just said they expect to be getting the shipment here in the US next week. They will then send them off to retailers, then start selling them on their website. They hope to start taking orders by the end of next week.
> 
> Whether buying through them or a retailer is quicker is yet to be determined since no retailer will say when they will have them.


Thank you both for the info. I can deal with another week wait, but I dont know if my Titans can.....or maybe it is the other way around.


----------



## Aestylis

Looks like Swiftech is giving one away on their Facebook page!.


----------



## BramSLI1

Just to let everyone here know, we shot the installation video this morning and once we edit it, the video installation guide will be available on our website. Please keep your comments about the dork that's in the video to yourself.


----------



## iceman0C

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Just to let everyone here know, we shot the installation video this morning and once we edit it, the video installation guide will be available on our website. Please keep your comments about the dork that's in the video to yourself.


Seeing how Linus and TTL got bashed, I don't envy you (or reviewers for that matter!)


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Do you understand now why I'm so picky about cooling products being reviewed? If you give this product to the wrong reviewer you will get exactly the OPPOSITE effect you wanted, because you got bad press and, now, you have to fix it just to be back at square one. This sort of products require a good reviewer to highlight whether they are good or not, anybody can do it but you must be truly careful when testing and understand how to do it properly... and such thing requires TIME, lots of it.
> 
> *Linus*: he is a cool guy, but cooling solutions are miles ahead of him. You simply know you've screwed up when you get a 20ºC difference simply by switching fans. Also, keep in mind that we have no idea whether he was using the rad as intake or exhaust, or whether the fans were on pull or on push. If the rad was being used as an exhaust + fans on pull... its a worst case scenerio.
> 
> Also, it boggles my mind that people complain about the pump being loud... which makes my point even better: why complain about something that can be tuned down with minimal lose in performance? It's clear he has no idea the world he entered, as he has no knowledge of liquid cooled solutions at all.
> 
> To finish with him... "we use all the systems with Noctua NF F12 with 7V adapter". Why would you do that?! This is plain stupid... and it also doesn't give any more info so we have no idea whether results are normalized or not.
> 
> *TTL:* crappiest review I have ever seen in my life. This guy is an idiot. I'll quote a few bits and pieces, just for fun.
> Sure, if you are stupid enough not to use the pwm features Swiftech included...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It isn't.
> Sure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fantastic, you are given a product to test and you freely bash it... good job.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, cause Swiftech rads have always been competitive regarding price/performance. They have never been the top dogs... but they were fairly priced.
> Yes, yours are, I'm sure about it...
> ---
> The only actual usable comment in there is the one regarding the long hosing. THE ONLY ONE. All the other thing is simply bull**** used to bash a company that kindly gave him a product to test.
> 
> Also, by the looks of it the H220 seems to be pushing air out instead of pushing air in...
> 
> ---
> 
> *To the Swiftech crew*: what a PR mess. It's funny that the pump gets bashed for being noisy when you handed a pwm-board specifically for such purpose. So, in order to deal with people's incompetence you should "nerf" the pump speed to run at 60% by default and let people unlock it if they wish. As it is, I don't think anybody needs the pump to be running at full blast (or not most) unless you expand the kit. I think it would be wise to have the pump go up in speed instead of down... so that default gets the job done but isn't too noisy.
> 
> Good luck on that OC3D forum... I almost made an account to insult the reviewer a little, but its not worth my time to insult somebody that is so stupid to consider other people's standards as "not very high" when he is as crappy of a reviewer as you get.
> 
> Ah! I'd choose my reviewers carefully next time, guys...
> ----
> 
> Real deal in regards to stuff that "cools":
> 
> http://martinsliquidlab.org/
> 
> This is what I expect when looking at a review:
> Then you don't have to guess how the results are what they are, you know how he got them because he states every single movement he does, as should everybody do. No idea whats the BS in doing review videos that are useless. I want data, not a guy talking nonsense...
> 
> Also, his reviews are a role-model of how reviews should be handled: he barely gives his on opinions, never states anything bad about any company, and never recommends a competing product when testing something.
> 
> Ah! Martin is getting an H100i soon


I agree with the reviews being poorly done, but you (and a bunch of others) cant keep blaming push vs pull. As even Martin has shown there is barely a noticeable difference.

http://martinsliquidlab.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/shroudtest-10.png?w=614

And because of that, if using one set of fans, pull is better because you wont have dust build up on the rad. Which would effect its performance if left uncleaned.


----------



## mcnumpty23

any one in the uk ever bought from overclock.co.uk?

they still have 4 in stock but its a company i have never used before so cant decide whether to order from them or wait a bit longer


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> any one in the uk ever bought from overclock.co.uk?
> 
> they still have 4 in stock but its a company i have never used before so cant decide whether to order from them or wait a bit longer


it says for dispatch Monday so I'd consider leaving then contacting them to make sure they have stock and not just expecting 4 in on monday


----------



## Neo Zuko

Some unobjective reviewing going on here huh. I'll do a nice forum review when I get that H320. It would not be a head to head as I am just a regular happy PC builder, but I've owned the Prolimatech Super Mega, Noctua D14, Corsair H80, and I am now running a Corsair H100i. I could at lest quantify my relitive performance, sound, happiness, and product worth better than some of these "Pro" reviewers.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman0C*
> 
> Seeing how Linus and TTL got bashed, I don't envy you (or reviewers for that matter!)


No wonder why... they did a terrible job. No idea why they published such poor reviews.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> I agree with the reviews being poorly done, but you (and a bunch of others) cant keep blaming push vs pull. As even Martin has shown there is barely a noticeable difference.
> 
> http://martinsliquidlab.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/shroudtest-10.png?w=614
> 
> And because of that, if using one set of fans, pull is better because you wont have dust build up on the rad. Which would effect its performance if left uncleaned.


What? Everything counts. If you plan to test 2 products you better test them in the same conditions. None of those reviewers have even stated how they tested the products, which means that they could have done things wrong plenty of times.

Also, 1ºC here, + 1ºC there, and so on... makes all the difference.

PS: and BTW, no idea how could you claim that 1ºC difference is "barely a noticeable difference" when we are talking about a 10%. A DAMN 10% by simply placing the fan on the right place... and I have no idea what you mean by dust build up on the rad, which is something that can only be controlled if you use the rad as an exhaust, which is A TERRIBLE IDEA. Its kinda simple to understand that a rad needs to be used as intake to get maximum performance, and it doesn't matter if you use the fan on pull or push, you will clog the rad just as well.... but its as simple as getting a filter or cleaning the rad often.


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> it says for dispatch Monday so I'd consider leaving then contacting them to make sure they have stock and not just expecting 4 in on monday


they had 5 in stock before now only 4--and it does seem to say in stock--not pre order

its typical for the uk not to dispatch over the weekend except for the bigger retailers like ebuyer

just worries me that i have never used them before and would have thought they would have sold these out straight away


----------



## Greenback

I think mentioning the sound of the pump isn't a bad thing reason : Someone gets this as a first step into water likes the results, goes and puts their 3 gpu's and a couple of rads turns the pump up gets noise. Aren't they going to be a little disappointed if every review say oh it's silent and contacting swiftech for a replacement pump as theirs must be faulty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> they had 5 in stock before now only 4--and it does seem to say in stock--not pre order
> 
> its typical for the uk not to dispatch over the weekend except for the bigger retailers like ebuyer
> 
> just worries me that i have never used them before and would have thought they would have sold these out straight away


I have never used them tbh I use specialtech but looking at reviews they don't seem to bad


----------



## Totally Dubbed

I would have loved to review it but Swiftech never got back to me








Could have compared it tot he Antec 920 - and I'm a quiet freak. I want my system dead quiet.
So I would test it with stock fans, then test SP120's on it - whilst folding, P95, IBT runs and whilst on BF3.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> I would have loved to review it but Swiftech never got back to me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could have compared it tot he Antec 920 - and I'm a quiet freak. I want my system dead quiet.
> So I would test it with stock fans, then test SP120's on it - whilst folding, P95, IBT runs and whilst on BF3.


they probably had loads of ppl offering test it with this or that imagine if they gave it to all b4 you know it they have lost £50,000 in sells


----------



## [email protected]

Gentlemen (and Ladies if any)

We are in communication with Linus and will figure out what the issue was. Once it has been identified, I am completely confident that Linus will update his findings and report the root cause.

On another note, I do look forward to Martin's comparative review H220 vs H100i on the 2011 platform. I also believe that Shannon Rob from Techoftomorrow should be coming out with his review on this same platform sometimes next week.

So we'll have additional third party data about 2011 soon. Our own testing showed the H100i to work well with this particular platform, and the difference in performance was not as pronounced there as with other plaftorms (H220 temp was 1.7C lower than our H100i sample at equal fan speed at 4.5Ghz and 1.43v). Let's see how other reviewers validate our results.

Cheers


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Gentlemen (and Ladies if any)
> 
> We are in communication with Linus and will figure out what the issue was. Once it has been identified, I am completely confident that Linus will update his findings and report the root cause.
> 
> On another note, I do look forward to Martin's comparative review H220 vs H100i on the 2011 platform. I also believe that Shannon Rob from Techoftomorrow should be coming out with his review on this same platform sometimes next week.
> 
> So we'll have additional third party data about 2011 soon. Our own testing showed the H100i to work well with this particular platform, and the difference in performance was not as pronounced there as with other plaftorms (H220 temp was 1.7C lower than our H100i sample at equal fan speed at 4.5Ghz and 1.43v). Let's see how other reviewers validate our results.
> 
> Cheers


Whatever my comments on here:
I must admit from other swiftech releases and here you can never fault their approach to customer issues


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> Whatever my comments on here:
> I must admit from other swiftech releases and here you can never fault their approach to customer issues


Gabe is our role model and we endeavor to provide the same level of customer service and support that he gives. We don't always make that mark, but Stephen and I try our best to do so. Thank all of you for your patience and support. We are as excited about the release of our H220 kit as all of you are.


----------



## TheTingez

Hi, to you all i am new on the site so don't hurt me to much i am not a noob ... lol as i have been in the business for 25 years in differing capacities ... BUT i am always willing to learn and take on board expert knowledge ... I was recommended/invited to check out the site/forums by Bryan at Swiftech after voicing my comments on YouTube regarding the new H220. After trying in vain i think ... lol to correct certain people over incorrect facts on the Product and Bryan suggested i will get a much more intelligent conversation here ... lol so don't let me down lol

Anyway i personally think the H220 is an excellent solution for consumers that want to get into liquid cooling. The price point is great for the level of Block/pump combo you get and to be fair its the first RAD in this sector of the market to give the consumer a copper RAD and dam good fans. The expandability for the learner to liquid cooling is an awesome idea.

I look forward to posting more in the future and gaining some knowledge on the finer points of liquid cooling and computers in general.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheTingez*
> 
> Hi, to you all i am new on the site so don't hurt me to much i am not a noob ... lol as i have been in the business for 25 years in differing capacities ... BUT i am always willing to learn and take on board expert knowledge ... I was recommended/invited to check out the site/forums by Bryan at Swiftech after voicing my comments on YouTube regarding the new H220. After trying in vain i think ... lol to correct certain people over incorrect facts on the Product and Bryan suggested i will get a much more intelligent conversation here ... lol so don't let me down lol
> 
> *Anyway i personally think the H220 is an excellent solution for consumers that want to get into liquid cooling. The price point is great for the level of Block/pump combo you get and to be fair its the first RAD in this sector of the market to give the consumer a copper RAD and dam good fans. The expandability for the learner to liquid cooling is an awesome idea.*
> 
> I look forward to posting more in the future and gaining some knowledge on the finer points of liquid cooling and computers in general.


My sentiments exactly







.


----------



## Greenback

I can see the advantage in this over the corsair models and if I was in the market for an AIO I would go this way.

But I see some disadvantage on the expandability side:

1. if a new improved cpu block comes out e.g. when the raystorm came out, then it seemed everyone was bringing out better blocks, with this you are left either buying a pump and block or hoping swiftech bring a replacement pump/block.

2. If you add a bigger rad and your case option for where it goes are limited e.g. the 810 has the 360 at the top 240 at the bottom, and in this setup I can see issues with trying to get a tidy loop and go res>pump being that the res would be on the bottom


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> I can see the advantage in this over the corsair models and if I was in the market for an AIO I would go this way.
> 
> But I see some disadvantage on the expandability side:
> 
> 1. if a new improved cpu block comes out e.g. when the raystorm came out, then it seemed everyone was bringing out better blocks, with this you are left either buying a pump and block or hoping swiftech bring a replacement pump/block.
> 
> 2. If you add a bigger rad and your case option for where it goes are limited e.g. the 810 has the 360 at the top 240 at the bottom, and in this setup I can see issues with trying to get a tidy loop and go res>pump being that the res would be on the bottom


As far as I know the res being on bottom doesn't really matter, it only effects filling the loop. And really, you shouldn't be filling the loop when its in your case anyways. Great way to spill fluids on stuff. Either take the rad out and make it higher than everything else when filling, or get a tube to hook on to the fill port so it's the highest point in the loop.

The first point however is a good one, and it actually almost drive me to not buying the h220 when they first announced it. It's a trade off you have to be willing to take.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> As far as I know the res being on bottom doesn't really matter, it only effects filling the loop. And really, you shouldn't be filling the loop when its in your case anyways. Great way to spill fluids on stuff. Either take the rad out and make it higher than everything else when filling, or get a tube to hook on to the fill port so it's the highest point in the loop.
> 
> The first point however is a good one, and it actually almost drive me to not buying the h220 when they first announced it. It's a trade off you have to be willing to take.


My understanding is that the res has to be above the pump to gravity feed, as the pump pushes the water around not sucks, though in thinking once the loop is full the 360 would act as a res but I could see problems in bleeding those last bits of air out.
I always fill my loop in the case I just cover everything


----------



## RX7-2nr

Ill trust Martin's review over any of those other sites.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheTingez*
> 
> Hi, to you all i am new on the site so don't hurt me to much i am not a noob ... lol as i have been in the business for 25 years in differing capacities ... BUT i am always willing to learn and take on board expert knowledge ... I was recommended/invited to check out the site/forums by Bryan at Swiftech after voicing my comments on YouTube regarding the new H220. After trying in vain i think ... lol to correct certain people over incorrect facts on the Product and Bryan suggested i will get a much more intelligent conversation here ... lol so don't let me down lol
> 
> Anyway i personally think the H220 is an excellent solution for consumers that want to get into liquid cooling. The price point is great for the level of Block/pump combo you get and to be fair its the first RAD in this sector of the market to give the consumer a copper RAD and dam good fans. The expandability for the learner to liquid cooling is an awesome idea.
> 
> I look forward to posting more in the future and gaining some knowledge on the finer points of liquid cooling and computers in general.


Welcome TheTingez, thanks for taking my advice and joining this very knowledgeable site and forum. I hope you find the information here as informative and helpful as I have over the years.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> I can see the advantage in this over the corsair models and if I was in the market for an AIO I would go this way.
> 
> But I see some disadvantage on the expandability side:
> 
> 1. if a new improved cpu block comes out e.g. when the raystorm came out, then it seemed everyone was bringing out better blocks, with this you are left either buying a pump and block or hoping swiftech bring a replacement pump/block.
> 
> 2. If you add a bigger rad and your case option for where it goes are limited e.g. the 810 has the 360 at the top 240 at the bottom, and in this setup I can see issues with trying to get a tidy loop and go res>pump being that the res would be on the bottom


If you wanted to use a different CPU block, you could always add it to the loop and use the pump/block combo on the H220 as just the pump







.


----------



## justanoldman

Bryan (BramSLI1),
Can you address this issue just brought up about the res being lower than the pump? I and others will want to put the H220 rad at the bottom of the case and add a 320 at the top. Since some are thinking that could cause an issue, I was hoping you could give us your view of that.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Bryan (BramSLI1),
> Can you address this issue just brought up about the res being lower than the pump? I and others will want to put the H220 rad at the bottom of the case and add a 320 at the top. Since some are thinking that could cause an issue, I was hoping you could give us your view of that.


Having the res lower than the pump will only cause an issue when you're filling the loop and priming your pump. If you plan on installing it that way, make sure to first fill it and prime the pump before installing it. If you don't you could have a problem with priming your pump and this could damage it due to causing it to run without fluid. If you are using a small enough case, or have room to tilt your case, you could fill it within the case if you can tilt it so that the reservoir is higher than the pump. Let me know if this answers your question.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheTingez*
> 
> Hi, to you all i am new on the site so don't hurt me to much i am not a noob ... lol as i have been in the business for 25 years in differing capacities ... BUT i am always willing to learn and take on board expert knowledge ... I was recommended/invited to check out the site/forums by Bryan at Swiftech after voicing my comments on YouTube regarding the new H220. After trying in vain i think ... lol to correct certain people over incorrect facts on the Product and Bryan suggested i will get a much more intelligent conversation here ... lol so don't let me down lol
> 
> Anyway i personally think the H220 is an excellent solution for consumers that want to get into liquid cooling. The price point is great for the level of Block/pump combo you get and to be fair its the first RAD in this sector of the market to give the consumer a copper RAD and dam good fans. The expandability for the learner to liquid cooling is an awesome idea.
> 
> I look forward to posting more in the future and gaining some knowledge on the finer points of liquid cooling and computers in general.


Wait are you the one that subscribed to me on Youtube after our conversation on Linus' video







?


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Bryan (BramSLI1),
> Can you address this issue just brought up about the res being lower than the pump? I and others will want to put the H220 rad at the bottom of the case and add a 320 at the top. Since some are thinking that could cause an issue, I was hoping you could give us your view of that.


While even I have not read the entire thread, some of these questions are going in waves. Curse of a long popular thread







... not a bad problem to have, huh Swiftech reps? However for your reading pleasure, here are the tips I have read so far:

While filling the res must be before and higher than the pump so that the pump never runs dry. Once the loop is full, it does not matter. You could move the res lower than the pump once full. So since the H220 has a rad with a built in res, you would have to have that hole assembly higher until the loop is full. And since it comes pre-filled this is only an issue if you are draining, expanding, and refilling the kit. Once the loop is full, you can place that res/rad combo in any position. You can also top it off from any position as the res will bleed off air at the top of the res no matter where it is in the loop. That is the primary purpose of a res. I don't know exactly how it does this, must be a pressure thing. At least that is what I have observed and read.

The next thing to remember is to connect the parts in the loop in the most direct way possible as there is very little temp difference between the hottest part to the coldest part in a waterloop. So where you place the rads in a loop hardly matters as far as order of components go.

And lastly, the rule of thumb is to have 120mm of rad area to each waterblock plus one more for 120mm of rad area for overhead. Then pile on some more rads for silent running if you like. That way you could increase your performance and keep those fans spinning low.

Watch this video to see how a loop is filled:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krgK2dcxJ5g


----------



## TheTingez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> I can see the advantage in this over the corsair models and if I was in the market for an AIO I would go this way.
> 
> But I see some disadvantage on the expandability side:
> 
> 1. if a new improved cpu block comes out e.g. when the raystorm came out, then it seemed everyone was bringing out better blocks, with this you are left either buying a pump and block or hoping swiftech bring a replacement pump/block.
> 
> 2. If you add a bigger rad and your case option for where it goes are limited e.g. the 810 has the 360 at the top 240 at the bottom, and in this setup I can see issues with trying to get a tidy loop and go res>pump being that the res would be on the bottom


To a certain extent i agree with both points but the product is aimed at either the beginner to liquid cooling systems with a limited budget or a consumer that just wants the best AIO on the market at this point and that's a far as he/she will go with liquid cooling.

For those in the sector of beginner that will want to expand there system and keep within there limited or sporadic budget levels, they have a great platform to build on. The block is based on fairly new design the Apogee and the pump is as far as i am aware a slightly modified or based on the 35X pump with great 60,000 MTBF.

So it should last a good/realistic life cycle still giving the consumer great performance levels. Allowing the consumer to concentrate on adding more Rads. possible GPU water block and not worry that the H220 block will be able to cope. In that time they will have learned a great deal and gained confidence. Personally i don't think they will be thinking to swop out the block/pump that quickly. just my opinion and there are always exceptions to the rule.

I do agree more on the tidy tubing loops, it could make it difficult but then again is that not part of the fun and the learning/experimenting process for the beginner. Without having to spend big chunks of hard earned cash. please add to or correct any of my points.


----------



## TheTingez

Mmmmm maybe are you going to hurt me if i say yes ?... lol


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Gentlemen (and Ladies if any)
> 
> We are in communication with Linus and will figure out what the issue was. Once it has been identified, I am completely confident that Linus will update his findings and report the root cause.
> 
> On another note, I do look forward to Martin's comparative review H220 vs H100i on the 2011 platform. I also believe that Shannon Rob from Techoftomorrow should be coming out with his review on this same platform sometimes next week.
> 
> So we'll have additional third party data about 2011 soon. Our own testing showed the H100i to work well with this particular platform, and the difference in performance was not as pronounced there as with other plaftorms (H220 temp was 1.7C lower than our H100i sample at equal fan speed at 4.5Ghz and 1.43v). Let's see how other reviewers validate our results.
> 
> Cheers


I think what you will see between the H220 and H100i is that during non-taxing single chip CPU situations the performance will be similar. Oh, the H220 will win by a smidgen. It does have better set of fans, waterblock, mounting system, pump, tube, and rad. However it will take high overclocks to see a huge difference because both are reasonably equipped for just a single CPU. Again, the superior parts on the H220 will pull it ahead of the H100i. But to me that is really not the point. If all you want is the best CPU cooler, than the H320 will beat the H100i on rad area alone. Even if the H100i performs well, all that proves is that Corsair made a decent CPU cooler for that one chip. Yippie. Swiftech made a decent SYSTEM cooler. Just add a rad and a GPU waterblock. That pump is sooo much better, it begs for a full set of blocks and rads. The value of the H220 is really in that pump and the expansion it allows.

Some clamor for a H120 from Swiftech. I say to really drive the point home, Swiftech needs to go in the other direction. Make this an inexpensive dual rad, CPU, and GPU system. Put a few skus or have it configurable at the website. I can buy a case, a CPU, a GPU, order my "H320x2" or whatever with my two rad sizes, CPU socket, and GPU block all configurable, then it arrives all filled up, screw it on, and bam!! Instant high end water cooling. Price it under at $300. And keep it expandable for when the time comes to tinker with it.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> As far as I know the res being on bottom doesn't really matter, it only effects filling the loop. And really, you shouldn't be filling the loop when its in your case anyways. Great way to spill fluids on stuff. Either take the rad out and make it higher than everything else when filling, or get a tube to hook on to the fill port so it's the highest point in the loop.
> 
> The first point however is a good one, and it actually almost drive me to not buying the h220 when they first announced it. It's a trade off you have to be willing to take.


This is as simple to solve as to move the case around so that the res is higher than the pump. You truly can't decide whether the res is higher or not than the pump because it depends on your case and layout... but move the case and be done with it while you are priming the system









Also, its kinda not useful to fill your loop while outside the case. I wouldn't want to start moving around a system full of liquid. Imagine something gets loose...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> My understanding is that the res has to be above the pump to gravity feed, as the pump pushes the water around not sucks, though in thinking once the loop is full the 360 would act as a res but I could see problems in bleeding those last bits of air out.
> I always fill my loop in the case I just cover everything


There are a thousand ways to do it when you have the reservoir lower than the pump. You could always unplug some tubing that sits higher than the pump and use it to fill directly the pump. Do it with some other tubes and you might fill all the loop, and then its a matter of making sure the res has enough liquid, and be done.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Bryan (BramSLI1),
> Can you address this issue just brought up about the res being lower than the pump? I and others will want to put the H220 rad at the bottom of the case and add a 320 at the top. Since some are thinking that could cause an issue, I was hoping you could give us your view of that.


Not a problem. Remember that the pump only pumps, which means that liquid needs to be there for the pump to move it around... and that if no pump if present, the pump will burn itself.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheTingez*
> 
> To a certain extent i agree with both points but the product is aimed at either the beginner to liquid cooling systems with a limited budget or a consumer that just wants the best AIO on the market at this point and that's a far as he/she will go with liquid cooling.
> 
> For those in the sector of beginner that will want to expand there system and keep within there limited or sporadic budget levels, they have a great platform to build on. The block is based on fairly new design the Apogee and the pump is as far as i am aware a slightly modified or based on the 35X pump with great 60,000 MTBF.
> 
> So it should last a good/realistic life cycle still giving the consumer great performance levels. Allowing the consumer to concentrate on adding more Rads. possible GPU water block and not worry that the H220 block will be able to cope. In that time they will have learned a great deal and gained confidence. Personally i don't think they will be thinking to swop out the block/pump that quickly. just my opinion and there are always exceptions to the rule.
> 
> I do agree more on the tidy tubing loops, it could make it difficult but then again is that not part of the fun and the learning/experimenting process for the beginner. Without having to spend big chunks of hard earned cash. please add to or correct any of my points.


The pump is an in-house design, not a Laing-based product









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> I think what you will see between the H220 and H100i is that during non taxing single chip situations the performance will be similar. But when you really test the high heat overclock limits of both, that is when one will pull away strong. Useful if you need high overclocks I guess. My money is on the H220's superior waterblock, mounting system, pump, tube, and rad pulling the H220 slightly ahead. But only slightly as we are talking one chip here on a dual rad. And even if they are mostly even most of the way, all that proves is that Corsair made a decent enough CPU cooler. Something that can handle that one chip. Yippie. Swiftech's H220 is a very decent "SYSTEM" cooler - just add some rads
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So really, comparing the H220 to the H100i is not the point to me. Its only useful if you intend to only use that for CPU cooling and never expand. And if that is the case, the H320 will blow that H100i away just on rad area alone. Me? I would want H220 compared to say a MCP35X pump, an Apogee HD waterblock, and a comparable 240 rad. Then you could say, hey you know what? Remember that barrier, that high cost to high end watercooling? remember that ceiling? We lowered it.
> 
> What Swiftech should do to drive the point home is not stop at this H220 and H320. What you need is a dual rad version. Cus at this point, it seems to me we are limited by rad surface area, not pumps or whatnot. Fighting over a few degrees for a single chip cooling solution. To really put that pump to work, and separate the boys from the men, you need a configurable order process (or a few skus). I buy the case, I go to Swiftech, I order the two rads I need sized to fit my case, it comes, I hook up my other blocks to it and install, and I'm done. I don't need to buy anything else. That's the kind of kit I see doing so well. All you need to do is add a few compression fittings and rads. Keep the price around $250.


I don't think the H220 can beat the H100i, at least not stock. The reasons are very simple... the H100i has a 2700rpm fan, whereas the Swiftech has more silent one. But still the comparison would never be apples to apples... and provided you used the same fans the difference would be terrific.

In the end, the problem I see is that good reviewers for this sort of products are scarce. Stock vs stock is fairly important... but you can't simply say "this is louder" if you don't even plan to record the bloody sound in the first place.

Martin, come on...









PS: and I don't know about you... but unless I planned to use the cpu at 100% all the time, all year long, the Swiftech product is simply better. More silent, far more quality (I read a ton of bad things about quality issues with H100i... and funny enough they mentioned none at OC3D), and more performance if you are to get better fans... and its also expandable.

And don't get me wrong, I'm the first that bash companies and have never owned a Swiftech products. But of all the water cooling brands out there, they have been the only ones that:

a) Are active within the community.

b) The data they published regarding their products performance was matched by that of the good reviewers... and when It didn't, they were the first ones to ask about how the test was done in order to pinpoint the mistake and fix it.

c) Strive for innovation every time. The idea to strap a DDC to a rad is something I wouldn't do (those pumps are a nightmare to de-couple from a case, let alone if its strapped to a rad), but you need to have ideas and balls to do things differently, as its very risky to try new things in this business.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> I don't think the H220 can beat the H100i, at least not stock. The reasons are very simple... the H100i has a 2700rpm fan, whereas the Swiftech has more silent one. But still the comparison would never be apples to apples... and provided you used the same fans the difference would be terrific.


Too bad thoughts don't mean anything, are you seriously saying only fans matter? The pump in the H220 is just far superior to what the H100's is.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> This is as simple to solve as to move the case around so that the res is higher than the pump. You truly can't decide whether the res is higher or not than the pump because it depends on your case and layout... but move the case and be done with it while you are priming the system
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, its kinda not useful to fill your loop while outside the case. I wouldn't want to start moving around a system full of liquid. Imagine something gets loose...
> There are a thousand ways to do it when you have the reservoir lower than the pump. You could always unplug some tubing that sits higher than the pump and use it to fill directly the pump. Do it with some other tubes and you might fill all the loop, and then its a matter of making sure the res has enough liquid, and be done.
> Not a problem. Remember that the pump only pumps, which means that liquid needs to be there for the pump to move it around... and that if no pump if present, the pump will burn itself.
> The pump is an in-house design, not a Laing-based product
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think the H220 can beat the H100i, at least not stock. The reasons are very simple... the H100i has a 2700rpm fan, whereas the Swiftech has more silent one. But still the comparison would never be apples to apples... and provided you used the same fans the difference would be terrific.
> 
> In the end, the problem I see is that good reviewers for this sort of products are scarce. Stock vs stock is fairly important... but you can't simply say "this is louder" if you don't even plan to record the bloody sound in the first place.
> 
> Martin, come on...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PS: and I don't know about you... but unless I planned to use the cpu at 100% all the time, all year long, the Swiftech product is simply better. More silent, far more quality (I read a ton of bad things about quality issues with H100i... and funny enough they mentioned none at OC3D), and more performance if you are to get better fans... and its also expandable.
> 
> And don't get me wrong, I'm the first that bash companies and have never owned a Swiftech products. But of all the water cooling brands out there, they have been the only ones that:
> 
> a) Are active within the community.
> 
> b) The data they published regarding their products performance was matched by that of the good reviewers... and when It didn't, they were the first ones to ask about how the test was done in order to pinpoint the mistake and fix it.
> 
> c) Strive for innovation every time. The idea to strap a DDC to a rad is something I wouldn't do (those pumps are a nightmare to de-couple from a case, let alone if its strapped to a rad), but you need to have ideas and balls to do things differently, as its very risky to try new things in this business.


Stock vs stock? Stock fans? Haa, I never used stock fans. I have always used GT AP-15s. That is a major reason the H220 is such a good value to me - those Helix PWM fans are really nice fans. OK I did use the stock fans in the FT02, those were boss. I find most stock fans are never as good as the GT or Helix fans. Yes they cost more money than free fans, but common, its like using free cardboard to protect your car's rug. Sure it will work, but I'd rather spend extra on decent car mats. And if you don't buy upgraded fans, well hey, the Helix PWM fans are some of the best right? I was thinking of replacing my GT fans with them as they have PWM and they are just as silent. I have not hooked up the H100i fans yet, however I did try a H100 fan. I had six GT AP-15 fans and had a fan spot left in my case. So I hooked up that H100 fan. It was so loud I decided to run one fan short instead. By far the loudest thing in my system. And I am running those GT AP-15s at full speed.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> Too bad thoughts don't mean anything, are you seriously saying only fans matter? The pump in the H220 is just far superior to what the H100's is.


It is a combination of parts for sure. What it all means is that the H220 does not just win or lose. Just because one wins, doesn't mean it is a "win". I can't hear numbers and graphs. How bout that noise level to performance ratio? That is where the H220 will blow the H100i away. I could care less if the H100i wins in temps. Perhaps it has no chance, perhaps it does win. But at what cost to my ears? I'd rather rock some silent Helix PWM fans any day over the H100i fans. What Corsair needs to do is put their best fans into these units and make the rads copper with a low enough fin count to not cause a racket. That sounds familiar... oh wait, that's what Swiftech did.


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> No wonder why... they did a terrible job. No idea why they published such poor reviews.
> What? Everything counts. If you plan to test 2 products you better test them in the same conditions. None of those reviewers have even stated how they tested the products, which means that they could have done things wrong plenty of times.
> 
> Also, 1ºC here, + 1ºC there, and so on... makes all the difference.
> 
> PS: and BTW, no idea how could you claim that 1ºC difference is "barely a noticeable difference" when we are talking about a 10%. A DAMN 10% by simply placing the fan on the right place... and I have no idea what you mean by dust build up on the rad, which is something that can only be controlled if you use the rad as an exhaust, which is A TERRIBLE IDEA. Its kinda simple to understand that a rad needs to be used as intake to get maximum performance, and it doesn't matter if you use the fan on pull or push, you will clog the rad just as well.... but its as simple as getting a filter or cleaning the rad often.


You must have misunderstood me. I didn't say anything about not testing them in the same conditions.

I said they tested the coolers with fans in pull at the top of the case. The reason for this, is there is barely any cooling difference between push and pull, and if you have fans pulling outside air to push through a rad (intake), its going to build up dust much more quickly then pulling the heat from the rad out of the case. Not everyone wants to clean out their rads every couple weeks. And air filters restrict airflow, which will hurt the cooling performance anyway.

Having a rad in the exhaust position is not a "terrible idea". It depends on many factors. Many people like to follow the laws of physics. Cool air for intake at the bottom, warm air rises to the top, where its exhausted out. With an AIO cooler, having them at the top of the case, and pushing the heat down in to the case, is just going to cause you graphics card, ram and motherboard to be warmer, while your CPU stays a little cooler.

Everyone has their own preference on how to set up their rads. My setup is one set of fans on rad pulling so dust doesnt build up quickly, have no other fans except rear exhaust, and usually side panel removed so there is no need to add more noise to have an intake.

It all depends on what the person wants out of their rig, the parts the have, the environment they are in, and many other factors. Some want the lowest possible CPU temps, others want a more balanced build, some want quieter, etc...

As for measurements of 1C, that is well within the margin of error for cooler testing. If you run prime/linx/whatever, you aren't going to get the same temps or same temps at the same times, every time you run it. Even if you were able to keep ambients exactly the same. Voltage isn't a constant, and all boards bounce the vcore around (some more then others). You could run the same test five times in a row, and if you measure the temps vs time through the tests, its not going to be the same.

There are always variables with cooling no one will be able to control. So when products, configurations, etc are within 2-3C of each other, its virtually a tie. You aren't going to notice a difference if you load at 75C vs 77C, and you aren't going to be able to repeat the same thing again either.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Having the res lower than the pump will only cause an issue when you're filling the loop and priming your pump. If you plan on installing it that way, make sure to first fill it and prime the pump before installing it. If you don't you could have a problem with priming your pump and this could damage it due to causing it to run without fluid. If you are using a small enough case, or have room to tilt your case, you could fill it within the case if you can tilt it so that the reservoir is higher than the pump. Let me know if this answers your question.


I think you guys are saying: if the rad with the res is going to be installed below the pump (which is what will happen in my Switch 810) then hold the rad with the res up above the pump, fill up the loop, and prime the pump first. Cap off the res when full, then install it in the bottom of the case.

Hopefully you can do a video of adding a gpu to the H220, since most of us are interested in doing that. I would suggest showing us how to fill and prime the system. Doing it outside the case makes sense, then the person can install the rads where they want. That way you cover everyone regardless of how they will install the rads.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> I think you guys are saying: if the rad with the res is going to be installed below the pump (which is what will happen in my Switch 810) then hold the rad with the res up above the pump, fill up the loop, and prime the pump first. Cap off the res when full, then install it in the bottom of the case.
> 
> Hopefully you can do a video of adding a gpu to the H220, since most of us are interested in doing that. I would suggest showing us how to fill and prime the system. Doing it outside the case makes sense, then the person can install the rads where they want. That way you cover everyone regardless of how they will install the rads.


We are planning to do a series of videos for the purpose of demonstrating how to properly add to your loop and how to properly fill and prime it afterwards. As I stated before though, please keep your comments about the dork in the videos to yourselves.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> Too bad thoughts don't mean anything, are you seriously saying only fans matter? The pump in the H220 is just far superior to what the H100's is.


Fans matter a lot, specially when the difference in rpm is so huge. The pump barely matters at all, specially in such simple loops. Should you try to run the H100i pump with a full loop you would fail, but for what its used is powerful enough.

Don't get me wrong, I hate loud systems and thus why I'd take the H220 if I ever go looking for an AIO solution.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> You must have misunderstood me. I didn't say anything about not testing them in the same conditions.
> 
> I said they tested the coolers with fans in pull at the top of the case. The reason for this, is there is barely any cooling difference between push and pull, and if you have fans pulling outside air to push through a rad (intake), its going to build up dust much more quickly then pulling the heat from the rad out of the case. Not everyone wants to clean out their rads every couple weeks. And air filters restrict airflow, which will hurt the cooling performance anyway.


You are using improper wordings. Push or pull makes no reference to whether you use your rad as an intake or exhaust, but whether you are "pulling" our "pushing" air with the fan.... and by the looks of the video, they were actually PUSHING air out of the case, not pulling it.

And no, the difference is ACTUALLY HUGE if you plan to use the rad as an exhaust instead of as an intake because the air temperature difference will be abysmal... and you would have to plan your layout carefully because you would probably starve your rad for air... to the point you might have to turn the back fan into an intake.
Quote:


> Having a rad in the exhaust position is not a "terrible idea". It depends on many factors. Many people like to follow the laws of physics. Cool air for intake at the bottom, warm air rises to the top, where its exhausted out. With an AIO cooler, having them at the top of the case, and pushing the heat down in to the case, is just going to cause you graphics card, ram and motherboard to be warmer, while your CPU stays a little cooler.


It is a terrible idea, and laws of physics don't apply when you have a fan pushing air, it simply doesn't matter that hot air rises, because the temperature difference would have to be HUGE to go against a fan or make it any slower.

Also, you are missing the point entirely: the hardest part of your system to get cooled is, by far, the cpu. Ram temperature has been meaningless since we started using DDR2 (and you have direct flow on them so, actually, temperatures would be OUTSTANDING here), and cooling your gpu will be really easy in the simplest of the case if you have a fan pointing at it.

Quote:


> As for measurements of 1C, that is well within the margin of error for cooler testing. If you run prime/linx/whatever, you aren't going to get the same temps or same temps at the same times, every time you run it. Even if you were able to keep ambients exactly the same. Voltage isn't a constant, and all boards bounce the vcore around (some more then others). You could run the same test five times in a row, and if you measure the temps vs time through the tests, its not going to be the same.
> 
> There are always variables with cooling no one will be able to control. So when products, configurations, etc are within 2-3C of each other, its virtually a tie. You aren't going to notice a difference if you load at 75C vs 77C, and you aren't going to be able to repeat the same thing again either.


Again, you are totally wrong, and you clearly have no idea of what you are talking about. Let me clarify:

a) That 1ºC difference is measured at the rad.

b) The heat is calculated based on a heater and how much power its drawing.

c) The tools used for measurement are precise enough to grant far more precision than a simple 1ºC

d) Even if we were talking about a cpu, 1ºC is clearly NOT the margin of error, not when you have the proper tooling. If you average the temperatures of your cpu for a big enough period of time you can find out where it fares once you average them. Keep in mind that cpu sensors are very precise although they aren't accurate, but for this matter this is simply perfect.

I'd suggest you get your facts straight and together before engaging in things you don't totally understand...


----------



## Pure2sin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> And no, the difference is ACTUALLY HUGE if you plan to use the rad as an exhaust instead of as an intake because the air temperature difference will be abysmal... and you would have to plan your layout carefully because you would probably starve your rad for air... to the point you might have to turn the back fan into an intake.
> 
> It is a terrible idea, and laws of physics don't apply when you have a fan pushing air, it simply doesn't matter that hot air rises, because the temperature difference would have to be HUGE to go against a fan or make it any slower.


I am going to disagree with this. Show me facts to back up the theory that there is going to be a huge temp difference from forcing air into the case. Everything I have seen read and done is to force air out through the radiator and the top of the case. This is because you don't want to build air pressure in the case which will actually heat the components not the other way around.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pure2sin*
> 
> I am going to disagree with this. Show me facts to back up the theory that there is going to be a huge temp difference from forcing air into or out of the case. Everything I have seen read and done is to force air out through the radiator and the top of the case. This is because you don't want to build air pressure in the case which will actually heat the components not the other way around.


The Swiftech reps on here actually recommend to use the cooler pushing air through the radiator and into the case.


----------



## Pure2sin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> The Swiftech reps on here actually recommend to use the cooler pushing air through the radiator and into the case.


I'm not saying they are wrong. I am just saying it also depends on the fan configuration and if you have dust filters. It would be cool to see a comparison though once everyone gets theirs.

I had to buy an Hyper Evo until I can get my hands on one for my new build.


----------



## Neo Zuko

As much as I like the H220/H320, I think they are fantastic, I might just jump from my H100i right into a Apogee HD and Maelstrom with dual pumps instead. I'm in no rush and I want the looks of Lok-Seal compression fittings all around myself. However, if I was buying a CPU cooler to hold me off, I would defiantly buy the H220/H320 over anything else though.


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Fans matter a lot, specially when the difference in rpm is so huge. The pump barely matters at all, specially in such simple loops. Should you try to run the H100i pump with a full loop you would fail, but for what its used is powerful enough.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I hate loud systems and thus why I'd take the H220 if I ever go looking for an AIO solution.
> You are using improper wordings. Push or pull makes no reference to whether you use your rad as an intake or exhaust, but whether you are "pulling" our "pushing" air with the fan.... and by the looks of the video, they were actually PUSHING air out of the case, not pulling it.
> 
> And no, the difference is ACTUALLY HUGE if you plan to use the rad as an exhaust instead of as an intake because the air temperature difference will be abysmal... and you would have to plan your layout carefully because you would probably starve your rad for air... to the point you might have to turn the back fan into an intake.
> It is a terrible idea, and laws of physics don't apply when you have a fan pushing air, it simply doesn't matter that hot air rises, because the temperature difference would have to be HUGE to go against a fan or make it any slower.
> 
> Also, you are missing the point entirely: the hardest part of your system to get cooled is, by far, the cpu. Ram temperature has been meaningless since we started using DDR2 (and you have direct flow on them so, actually, temperatures would be OUTSTANDING here), and cooling your gpu will be really easy in the simplest of the case if you have a fan pointing at it.
> Again, you are totally wrong, and you clearly have no idea of what you are talking about. Let me clarify:
> 
> a) That 1ºC difference is measured at the rad.
> 
> b) The heat is calculated based on a heater and how much power its drawing.
> 
> c) The tools used for measurement are precise enough to grant far more precision than a simple 1ºC
> 
> d) Even if we were talking about a cpu, 1ºC is clearly NOT the margin of error, not when you have the proper tooling. If you average the temperatures of your cpu for a big enough period of time you can find out where it fares once you average them. Keep in mind that cpu sensors are very precise although they aren't accurate, but for this matter this is simply perfect.
> 
> I'd suggest you get your facts straight and together before engaging in things you don't totally understand...


Trolls like you make forum posting just way too much of a headache. You can believe what you want, but clearly you are the one that doesn't understand. You are also the one that seems to be mixing up push/pull vs intake/exhaust.

Push is where the fan is blowing the air in to the rad. Pull is where its pull the air through the rad. Intake is when you are using a fan to pull air outside of the case in, and exhaust is pushing the air from inside the case out. You can have push as intake or exhaust, and pull as intake or exhaust.

Look around, there is plenty of push vs pull testing that has been done. Having the fans on the rad also be intake fans will generally be better for the CPU temps. It doesn't mean that there aren't situations where having the rad's fan be an exhaust is a terrible idea either.

Your on ignore now, as Im not going to continue arguing with someone who reverts to "your wrong" and "you dont know this or that" or "blah blah blah" just because someone disagrees with what they say, and aren't providing anything to the subject to have a civilized debate. Ive been doing this stuff a long time, with many thousands of hours in to it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pure2sin*
> 
> I am going to disagree with this. Show me facts to back up the theory that there is going to be a huge temp difference from forcing air into the case. Everything I have seen read and done is to force air out through the radiator and the top of the case. This is because you don't want to build air pressure in the case which will actually heat the components not the other way around.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> The Swiftech reps on here actually recommend to use the cooler pushing air through the radiator and into the case.


They recommend having the fan pull air in because it provides cooler out side air to the rad. Its the same thing all the AIO makers recommend. But it doesn't mean its always better. It will always depend on your situation.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pure2sin*
> 
> I'm not saying they are wrong. I am just saying it also depends on the fan configuration and if you have dust filters. It would be cool to see a comparison though once everyone gets theirs.
> 
> I had to buy an Hyper Evo until I can get my hands on one for my new build.


I'm in talks with Swiftech to try and get a review sample. If it doesn't happen, Ill still buy one when it comes out for testing. Ill be sure to test many configuration methods.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

As I said in my antec installation guide that will be uploaded tomorrow (over 40mins long)
"Antec recommend pushing air OUT of the case - however after talking to Antec support, they said you would get BETTER TEMPS if you push air INTO the case AS LONG as you have a fan taking air out"


----------



## Greenback

Having filters on the fans at the bottom of my case as intake and my rad at the top as exhaust, I have positive pressure inside the case and no dust thus no dust in the rad,. I'm willing to lose that 1c for not having to clean anything







. As far as I remember (going back 14 months) unless you have some components really heating up the inside of the case there isn't much difference in having the rad suck air in or push air out, but setting it up to get positive pressure inside the case is a good thing it reduces dust getting in from those little unfiltered holes. just my thoughts

back on topic:
I did think of a nice tidy build for this given that you don't need a separate res or pump connection
top rad > pump/cpu > gpu > res/rad, because you can rotate the fittings on the rad you can take the tube up the back of the motherboard tray back into top rad (this tube would also make a good drain)

My 810 solution given the right rad e.g. phobya g-changer (there are others) with multiple ports you could fill the loop through 1 of the spare ports


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pure2sin*
> 
> I am going to disagree with this. Show me facts to back up the theory that there is going to be a huge temp difference from forcing air into the case. Everything I have seen read and done is to force air out through the radiator and the top of the case. This is because you don't want to build air pressure in the case which will actually heat the components not the other way around.


The thing is that the air is hotter inside the case than it is outside. Heat build-up is a non-issue if you plan your layout ahead. The only inherent problem with rads as intake is that they will take all the dust for themselves... yup, they are greedy








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> Having filters on the fans at the bottom of my case as intake and my rad at the top as exhaust, I have positive pressure inside the case and no dust thus no dust in the rad,. I'm willing to lose that 1c for not having to clean anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . As far as I remember (going back 14 months) unless you have some components really heating up the inside of the case there isn't much difference in having the rad suck air in or push air out, but setting it up to get positive pressure inside the case is a good thing it reduces dust getting in from those little unfiltered holes. just my thoughts
> 
> back on topic:
> I did think of a nice tidy build for this given that you don't need a separate res or pump connection
> top rad > pump/cpu > gpu > res/rad, because you can rotate the fittings on the rad you can take the tube up the back of the motherboard tray back into top rad (this tube would also make a good drain)
> 
> My 810 solution given the right rad e.g. phobya g-changer (there are others) with multiple ports you could fill the loop through 1 of the spare ports


Jeeeez, why people invent data all the time? That 1ºC difference was based on a single radiator with simply changing the fan orientation. This had nothing to do with whether the rad was set up as intake or exhaust.


----------



## TheTingez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> We are planning to do a series of videos for the purpose of demonstrating how to properly add to your loop and how to properly fill and prime it afterwards. As I stated before though, please keep your comments about the dork in the videos to yourselves.


That's a dam good idea Bram, especially for the liquid cooling novice. I will be watching those myself for use in my business and my customers.

Yeah that certain person was out there enough said on that matter ... lol


----------



## TheTingez

( The pump is an in-house design, not a Laing-based product







) Thanks for correcting me on the pump i was just remembering what Martin from Liquid Labs said on the subject i must have misunderstood him ... my bad here is his Quote " Opening the pump reveals a nice spiral shaped volute almost identical to the mighty 35X design. Only difference is the inlet shaft support arm. It has the same well designed alignment feet, same radius, same spiral, and same DDC size. They have taken all the R&D that was done for the 35X pump and integrated it into the volute for the H220."


----------



## GT-R

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Swiftech needs to go in the other direction. Make this an inexpensive dual rad, CPU, and GPU system. Put a few skus or have it configurable at the website. I can buy a case, a CPU, a GPU, order my "H320x2" or whatever with my two rad sizes, CPU socket, and GPU block all configurable, then it arrives all filled up, screw it on, and bam!! Instant high end water cooling. Price it under at $300. And keep it expandable for when the time comes to tinker with it.


Exactly what I was thinking.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> The Swiftech reps on here actually recommend to use the cooler pushing air through the radiator and into the case.


We recommend having your fans on your radiator set up that way so long as you have a good exhaust in your case. I currently have my bottom rad set up in a push/pull configuration as an intake, my back rad in push as an exhaust, and my top rad in push/ pull as an exhaust. I have it set up this way only because my case doesn't have any dust filtration at the top and I'm willing to lose a couple of degrees to keep dust out.


----------



## Martinm210

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheTingez*
> 
> ( The pump is an in-house design, not a Laing-based product
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) Thanks for correcting me on the pump i was just remembering what Martin from Liquid Labs said on the subject i must have misunderstood him ... my bad here is his Quote " Opening the pump reveals a nice spiral shaped volute almost identical to the mighty 35X design. Only difference is the inlet shaft support arm. It has the same well designed alignment feet, same radius, same spiral, and same DDC size. They have taken all the R&D that was done for the 35X pump and integrated it into the volute for the H220."


Sorry if I caused confusion. I was referring to the pump volute not the motor. The volute (casing) in the H220 looks very much like a 35x top except for the shaft support. I will add a note to clarify.









Hope to have my own h100i review started by the end of next weekend.
Cheers!
Martin


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GT-R*
> 
> Exactly what I was thinking.


I honestly don't know how that would be possible to do from a production or manufacturing standpoint. First off, we don't even sell cases on our website. Can you imagine the warehouse space that it would require to carry enough of a selection of cases to meet the needs that you're suggesting that we cater to? I'm just saying that what you're talking about sounds easy, but once you start looking at what it would take to actually accomplish, it isn't easy and would actually be quite expensive. It certainly wouldn't come in at under the $300 price point that you would require.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I honestly don't know how that would be possible to do from a production or manufacturing standpoint. First off, we don't even sell cases on our website. Can you imagine the warehouse space that it would require to carry enough of a selection of cases to meet the needs that you're suggesting that we cater to? I'm just saying that what you're talking about sounds easy, but once you start looking at what it would take to actually accomplish, it isn't easy and would actually be quite expensive. It certainly wouldn't come in at under the $300 price point that you would require.


And that's not including all the different blocks you would need for the different gpu's, and the amount of returns and ppl moaning because your cpu+7870 kit doesn't fit their non reference card. The public relations would be a nightmare you would lightly lose more business then you'd gain imo.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> We recommend having your fans on your radiator set up that way so long as you have a good exhaust in your case. I currently have my bottom rad set up in a push/pull configuration as an intake, my back rad in push as an exhaust, and my top rad in push/ pull as an exhaust. I have it set up this way only because my case doesn't have any dust filtration at the top and I'm willing to lose a couple of degrees to keep dust out.


This is why I like the new Arc Midi r2, The bottom, front, and top all have filters. Only the rear, that I'm setting to exhaust anyways, doesn't have a filter. All three of the filters also come off in the less 30 seconds combined, so it makes for easy cleaning. Lots of positive pressure+filters=no dust(quite a big issue in Arizona, living in a desert sucks).









Really though, if you aren't considering dust, you can have 1 really good exhaust fan that moves a good amount of air, and the rest be intake, and you won't have issues with air flow. Fans completely negate any of the hot air rising thing, so unless your system is completely passive it isn't a problem, and the endgame goal is to have my GPU+CPU under water anyways...so the air in my case only really effects mobo, ram, and SSD/HDD temps, which are almost none issues if you have any amount of air flowing over them.

Obviously, the situation is different for everyone, you have to plan ahead based on what cooling you are getting, and what case you have.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> And that's not including all the different blocks you would need for the different gpu's, and the amount of returns and ppl moaning because your cpu+7870 kit doesn't fit their non reference card. The public relations would be a nightmare you would lightly lose more business then you'd gain imo.


Exactly, that's why no one else has attempted it and why it will probably never be attempted. There are just too many variables and the amount of warehouse space would be very costly in and of itself. I'm not saying that it can't be done, I'm just saying that I can't see how it could be done and still come in at under a $300 price point.


----------



## Neo Zuko

I didn't mean cases, just a screw in play waterloop complete complete with dual rads, a CPU and single GPU. I figured you would only support like 4 GPUs, the popular ones like. I don't think that would happen, but think of all the people just here that want to watercool but are a little afraid of it. It would be popular for those with little time to build a Mona Lisa.

When CaseLabs was designing the Merlin series of PC cases, it got its name because the designer wanted all these "impossible" features from a production standpoint. Things like reversible front facias and reversible motherboard/window sides, etc. Others said you would have to be "Merlin" to fit all those features in!! And the name stuck. Guess what, I have a case with both those features and it's selling well on the market at $380. Then you have all those CaseLabs accessories to buy...

It really only means designing 4 popular GPU blocks a generation (high-end and low-end Nvidia and AMD), tossing in another rad, and a bit more tubing. The only really tricky part would be the tubing lengths, you would have to allow some slack for different cases like.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> I didn't mean cases, just a screw in play waterloop complete complete with dual rads, a CPU and single GPU. I figured you would only support like 5-10 GPUs, the popular ones like. I don't think that would happen, but think of all the people just here that want to watercool but are a little afraid of it. It would be popular for those with little time to build a Mona Lisa.


I'm not saying that I don't like that idea, I'm just saying that I don't know how to produce it without going over the $300 price point that it would need to be offered at. I can talk with Gabe and Stephen though on Monday about it and see what their take is.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Who knows, I do dream big tho









Make it $500. It's an all in one no hassle thing, it might be worth $400-$500 then.

I think you should partner up with certain popular cases like the CaseLabs SM8 or the Silverstone FT02, Cooler Master HAF series, make case specific kits. That way the tubing will be exactly the right lengths.

Like I said, no way it will happen. But then again I could easily see it becoming a breakout success against everyone's expectations... people are lazy. Plug-and-play solutions will sell if marketed just right. Corsair proved this with the Hydro series. While higher-priced products aren't mass-market products you could easily become the CaseLabs of all-in-one watercooling kits. The more refined choice


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> ...
> 
> It really only means designing 4 popular GPU blocks a generation (high-end and low-end Nvidia and AMD), tossing in another rad, and a bit more tubing. The only really tricky part would be the tubing lengths, you would have to allow some slack for different cases like.


Another thing to consider is that Swiftech only makes Nvidia full cover blocks for EVGA, and only the top cards at that.


----------



## Neo Zuko

I know, most likely dreaming. There may be a hard price point where someone would just go full on custom anyway. It just seems silly to have that awesome pump and not add a GPU block and a 2nd rad. And I guess that Swiftech could always just sell other parts to the H220/H320 series kit separately, have you do the work. That would work as once you are in the H220/H320 kit's sub-brand, you upgrade with those series of parts like. I'd work on marketing that. Then when that is successful, you do case specific kits.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Another thing to consider is that Swiftech only makes Nvidia full cover blocks for EVGA, and only the top cards at that.


Is there something stopping them from doing AMD blocks? Or more blocks in general?

By the way, I'd totally buy GPU or high end Asus ROG mobo blocks from Swiftech... But the either don't make them or make them in nickel plating. I'm a mix as few metals as possible non-plating believer.


----------



## dartuil

is there a swiftech guy here?
Do you have a WB that could fit this?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5IrR19RXzq4/UNlPvT4FccI/AAAAAAAAPKI/zzd9fE5doYI/s1600/PowerColor+HD7950+3GB+GDDR5+v2+PCB.jpg
http://www.coolingconfigurator.com/upload/pictures/PowerColor-Radeon-HD-7970-V3-3GB-GDDR5-%28AX7970-3GBD5-2DHV3%29_68064.jpg


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> I know, most likely dreaming. There may be a hard price point where someone would just go full on custom anyway. It just seems silly to have that awesome pump and not add a GPU block and a 2nd rad. And I guess that Swiftech could always just sell other parts to the H220/H320 series kit separately, have you do the work. That would work as once you are in the H220/H320 kit's sub-brand, you upgrade with those series of parts like. I'd work on marketing that. Then when that is successful, you do case specific kits.


I don't think it would ever be profitable for swiftech to have full kits. The costs would be extremely high, to the point where only enthusiasts that would build full custom loops would want them anyways.

It's a cool idea, but I just don't see it being worth it right now. They would be better of putting in the effort to describe how to expand the loop. Video's on adding GPU blocks, explaining barbs/compression fittings/tube diameters/etc. Make all the information readily available on their website, that explains everything and takes the worry out of it for new consumers. Which, essentially is what they are trying to do with their new videos.

Maybe one day GPU's will be like CPU's, and it will be a simple thing to have a kit that fits all popular GPU's. Right now, they just have to many variables. So many different designs, references, etc, the market for each kit would be a lot smaller. It all adds to the costs, and makes it more and more difficult(which adds to the cost).


----------



## chronicfx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> I don't think it would ever be profitable for swiftech to have full kits. The costs would be extremely high, to the point where only enthusiasts that would build full custom loops would want them anyways.
> 
> It's a cool idea, but I just don't see it being worth it right now. They would be better of putting in the effort to describe how to expand the loop. Video's on adding GPU blocks, explaining barbs/compression fittings/tube diameters/etc. Make all the information readily available on their website, that explains everything and takes the worry out of it for new consumers. Which, essentially is what they are trying to do with their new videos.
> 
> Maybe one day GPU's will be like CPU's, and it will be a simple thing to have a kit that fits all popular GPU's. Right now, they just have to many variables. So many different designs, references, etc, the market for each kit would be a lot smaller. It all adds to the costs, and makes it more and more difficult(which adds to the cost).


Not true. I am in for a H320 for a $160 no doubt. I am not in for a $400+ loop to gain 15 degrees and a 10% boost to my overclock on my graphics cards.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chronicfx*
> 
> Not true. I am in for a H320 for a $160 no doubt. I am not in for a $400+ loop to gain 15 degrees and a 10% boost to my overclock on my graphics cards.


I don't see where your statement makes my statement not true? When I said full kits, I meant kits with a GPU block added, which is what Neo Zuko was talking about.


----------



## Greenback

just doing a quick price comparison on what your suggesting and it would be about £250 in UK so swiftech would have to look at a price around £200 = $310, also my thought would be if a person wasn't confident to put a loop in their rig would they feel confident stripping a $600 gpu card to put a water block on I feel not


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dartuil*
> 
> is there a swiftech guy here?
> Do you have a WB that could fit this?
> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5IrR19RXzq4/UNlPvT4FccI/AAAAAAAAPKI/zzd9fE5doYI/s1600/PowerColor+HD7950+3GB+GDDR5+v2+PCB.jpg
> http://www.coolingconfigurator.com/upload/pictures/PowerColor-Radeon-HD-7970-V3-3GB-GDDR5-%28AX7970-3GBD5-2DHV3%29_68064.jpg


We don't have a full-cover block for that card. It uses a non-reference PCB and therefore you would have to use our MCW82 universal water block.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Is there something stopping them from doing AMD blocks? Or more blocks in general?
> 
> By the way, I'd totally buy GPU or high end Asus ROG mobo blocks from Swiftech... But the either don't make them or make them in nickel plating. I'm a mix as few metals as possible non-plating believer.


Swiftech makes AMD blocks for high end reference cards. I have a Swiftech Komodo 7970 for my Diamond 7970. Ibelieve they make one for ref. 7950s as well.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> We don't have a full-cover block for that card. It uses a non-reference PCB and therefore you would have to use our MCW82 universal water block.


are you not allowed the weekend off to go out get drunk?


----------



## chronicfx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> I don't see where your statement makes my statement not true? When I said full kits, I meant kits with a GPU block added, which is what Neo Zuko was talking about.


Apologies friend


----------



## dartuil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> We don't have a full-cover block for that card. It uses a non-reference PCB and therefore you would have to use our MCW82 universal water block.


I'm owning a Apogee HD and would like to go in full Swiftech.
Apogee HD-MCP350-HydrX coolant and a MCW82-7900 with HD7950HSF modded








GG swiftech :O


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> are you not allowed the weekend off to go out get drunk?


I happen to be an enthusiast and therefore responding to posts on this forum isn't really "work". I also enjoy the feedback that I get from other threads that I subscribe to on this forum.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dartuil*
> 
> I'm owning a Apogee HD and would like to go in full Swiftech.
> Apogee HD-MCP350-HydrX coolant and a MCW82-7900 with HD7950HSF modded
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GG swiftech :O


Sounds good. Let me know how that modded heat sink works out for you.


----------



## dartuil

my other question better is to get a H220 and modd it to fit the mcw82 or keep me Apogee HD?


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> I know, most likely dreaming. There may be a hard price point where someone would just go full on custom anyway. It just seems silly to have that awesome pump and not add a GPU block and a 2nd rad. And I guess that Swiftech could always just sell other parts to the H220/H320 series kit separately, have you do the work. That would work as once you are in the H220/H320 kit's sub-brand, you upgrade with those series of parts like. I'd work on marketing that. Then when that is successful, you do case specific kits.


They already sell other rads and the MCW series universal blocks.

If they sold a kit with an MCW-82 added in the loop, and include some heatsinks for VRMs, it would fit pretty much any video card. Or they could make a kit with quick disconect fittings, so people could add on to the loop without draining.

Question for Swiftech. One of the reviews stated that the review samples was using a Hydrx mixed coolant, and the retail ones were switched to something blue. Have you tested for a temperture difference between them? Is it possible Linus got one of each type of coolant, which effected his fan testing (assuming he used one cooler for the Helix fans, and the other for the Noctua fans)?


----------



## MeanBruce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> are you not allowed the weekend off to go out get drunk?


Nah man, Bram isn't at work, he's home on his custom rig, on a fluffy couch wireless keyboard, in front of the 60inch flat panel helping us out by answering our posts, AND getting drunk.









He also walks and chews gum.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dartuil*
> 
> I'm owning a Apogee HD and would like to go in full Swiftech.
> Apogee HD-MCP350-HydrX coolant and a MCW82-7900 with HD7950HSF modded
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GG swiftech :O


that's 1 of the things I regret putting this system together b4 getting into water, is not having a reference graphics card for a full block.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I happen to be an enthusiast and therefore responding to posts on this forum isn't really "work". I also enjoy the feedback that I get from other threads that I subscribe to on this forum.


just looked at your profile and read in the navy learned computers got into liquid cooling.and fps, and instant picture in my head was boat sinking you hanging on to your keyboard shouting no I'm on the last boss


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dartuil*
> 
> my other question better is to get a H220 and modd it to fit the mcw82 or keep me Apogee HD?


You mean add the MCW82 into the H220 loop? Yes that's the best option IMO.

On a side note, I was once stuck with a non-reference card. I traded it for a smaller card + cash twice, then sold the smallest card and used the money from all 3 transactions to buy a reference model







. Never again will I buy a non-reference card, unless it has a full cover block made specifically for it.


----------



## dartuil

yes i want to add a MCW82 i have the mcw82 just need the 7900 kit :O
where can i get parts to modd the H220 If u think i should sell the Apogee HD and get the H220?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dartuil*
> 
> yes i want to add a MCW82 i have the mcw82 just need the 7900 kit :O
> where can i get parts to modd the H220 If u think i should sell the Apogee HD and get the H220?


All you need is couple 3/8"x 5/8" fittings, like the Lok-Seal compression fittings, and some new coolant; possibly more tubing.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> So the h100i gets reduced by 8c if used with the Noctua fans.
> And that's with STOCK corsair fans, and not stock H220 ones.
> 
> So long story short the h220 pertforms better.
> I want a noise test, by one of these independent reviewers.
> 
> As for the TTL review:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPfLKkyIJOI
> 
> I completely agree with him on every point.
> As for his testing - as you can see, it was correct as Linus can confirm on that too with his results.
> 
> I'll think about the H220 now, and see if I really want or need it.
> I'm quite tempted to get it to be honest.
> 
> Only thing is, is that I don't have anyone that wants my antec 920 - so it would be a waste of money to invest in a new cooler and not sell off the "old" one


You tried selling the Antec on Ebay?


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> So the h100i gets reduced by 8c if used with the Noctua fans.
> And that's with STOCK corsair fans, and not stock H220 ones.
> 
> So long story short the h220 pertforms better.
> I want a noise test, by one of these independent reviewers.
> 
> As for the TTL review:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPfLKkyIJOI
> 
> I completely agree with him on every point.
> As for his testing - as you can see, it was correct as Linus can confirm on that too with his results.
> 
> I'll think about the H220 now, and see if I really want or need it.
> I'm quite tempted to get it to be honest.
> 
> Only thing is, is that I don't have anyone that wants my antec 920 - so it would be a waste of money to invest in a new cooler and not sell off the "old" one


You tried selling the Antec on Ebay?


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *enilsen16*
> 
> Has anyone seen a comparison between the Cooler Master Seidon 240M and the H220? Cant decide which one to buy.[/quote
> 
> You can't decide??? Go buy the one with the aluminum radiator and 1.7 volt pump if you can't decide. The decision is a no-brainer.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *enilsen16*
> 
> Has anyone seen a comparison between the Cooler Master Seidon 240M and the H220? Cant decide which one to buy.[/quote
> 
> You can't decide??? Go buy the one with the aluminum radiator and 1.7 volt pump if you can't decide. The decision is a no-brainer.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> that's 1 of the things I regret putting this system together b4 getting into water, is not having a reference graphics card for a full block.
> just looked at your profile and read in the navy learned computers got into liquid cooling.and fps, and instant picture in my head was boat sinking you hanging on to your keyboard shouting no I'm on the last boss


That's funny. Actually I was a Parachute Rigger in the Navy and therefore I took care of the air crews' survival equipment. I was stationed on the air craft carriers John F. Kennedy and the George Washington. It was a civilian contractor that later taught me how to build computers. I tried to get him to teach me about water cooling but he thought it was too risky. I decided to try it out on my own and my first kit was the Swiftech H20-120 compact with the original Apogee Drive 350 and 120 rad/res. A buddy of mine has it now and it still works.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> That's funny. Actually I was a Parachute Rigger in the Navy and therefore I took care of the air crews' survival equipment. I was stationed on the air craft carriers John F. Kennedy and the George Washington. It was a civilian contractor that later taught me how to build computers. I tried to get him to teach me about water cooling but he thought it was too risky. I decided to try it out on my own and my first kit was the Swiftech H20-120 compact with the original Apogee Drive 350 and 120 rad/res. A buddy of mine has it now and it still works.


I had friends on the KittyHawk and Constellation during Vietnam War. They took part in anti-racist mutinies led by black sailors. That convinced the Nixon crowd to pull out of Vietnam. Too many fraggings and mass refusals to go on search and destroys. They did not want a 1917 Potemkin on their hand.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> I had friends on the KittyHawk and Constellation during Vietnam War. They took part in anti-racist mutinies led by black sailors. That convinced the Nixon crowd to pull out of Vietnam. Too many fraggings and mass refusals to go on search and destroys. They did not want a 1917 Potemkin on their hand.


Yeah, that was a tough era to be a sailor, or any service member for that matter. I served from March of 2001 to Nov. of 2010. I enjoyed most of it except for the last couple years when they forced me to become a Sea Bee or member of a Construction Battalion. I'm color blind and in the Navy's wisdom it wasn't safe to have me working on survival equipment any longer. It's funny because color actually had more to do with my job as a Construction Mechanic because of the color-coded hydraulic schematics than it ever had to with my job as a Parachute Rigger.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> That's funny. Actually I was a Parachute Rigger in the Navy and therefore I took care of the air crews' survival equipment. I was stationed on the air craft carriers John F. Kennedy and the George Washington. It was a civilian contractor that later taught me how to build computers. I tried to get him to teach me about water cooling but he thought it was too risky. I decided to try it out on my own and my first kit was the Swiftech H20-120 compact with the original Apogee Drive 350 and 120 rad/res. A buddy of mine has it now and it still works.


so none of the pilots picked on you, jump out of plane look up see message "whose got the last laugh" as strings start to break


----------



## Tom Thumb

Just watched the Linus review video. OUCH!!! Those stock fan numbers are bad!!!! Swiftech got some bad publicity there. Hope they get this stuff straightened out soon.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> so none of the pilots picked on you, jump out of plane look up see message "whose got the last laugh" as strings start to break


Can't say the thought never crossed my mind. I had to work with some very difficult officers at times. Here's a funny story. We had one officer complain that the controls on his seat were too difficult to tell apart in the dark. This was due to the adjustment knobs on both sides of the seat were exactly the same. Our supervising Chief instructed us to put reflective tape on his gloves, one with the letter L on his left glove and the other with the letter R. I can't even tell you how pissed off he was when he realized how we "fixed" his problem. Nothing he could do about it though because you don't argue with a Chief.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Can't say the thought never crossed my mind. I had to work with some very difficult officers at times. Here's a funny story. We had one officer complain that the controls on his seat were too difficult to tell apart in the dark. This was due to the adjustment knobs on both sides of the seat were exactly the same. Our supervising Chief instructed us to put reflective tape on his gloves, one with the letter L on his left glove and the other with the letter R. I can't even tell you how pissed off he was when he realized how we "fixed" his problem. Nothing he could do about it though because you don't argue with a Chief.


Should of used paint so he couldn't take it off









Keep looking at my case wondering if I can get that rad in between my gpu and hdd cage, remove the 120 turn the 360 get clear tubing and run 360 > cpu/pump > gpu > res/rad then long run of tube up the back of motherboard tray to the 360, short runs of clear tubing distilled water the loop would be near invisible









It's been 14 months so I suppose it's about time I drained it and had a clean


----------



## Phelan

Can't wait to get my stuff in. I've got an H220 and an MCR320-QP on the way, a Komodo 7970 and 6 Helix 120 fans sitting here, and I just need a couple fittings/plugs and 3 more fans to complete my loop







.


----------



## msgclb

Guess what I just ordered from Swiftech!!!


----------



## BrotherJoseph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Can't wait to get my stuff in. I've got an H220 and an MCR320-QP on the way, a Komodo 7970 and 6 Helix 120 fans sitting here, and I just need a couple fittings/plugs and 3 more fans to complete my loop
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Jealous of your Komodo :-[ Had to settle for the Koolance AR797. Still stoked though!


----------



## Emu105

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *msgclb*
> 
> Guess what I just ordered from Swiftech!!!


Idk if i should even buy this... ah!! i want a SSD i just dont have enough money!! for both!


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *msgclb*
> 
> Guess what I just ordered from Swiftech!!!


Ooooh, in for the purchase!









Finally my money is in Swiftechs bank accounts...


----------



## Aestylis

Just ordered, WOOT!


----------



## AdamMT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *msgclb*
> 
> Guess what I just ordered from Swiftech!!!


Thanks for the heads up. Ordered!


----------



## executor77

I want to run 3 Titans in SLI and my CPU. As silently as possible. Is the H220 or H320 a good candidate for silent cooling? will the pump make a lot of noise if I add 3 SLI titans and an additional radiator?. I don't want to overclock at all. Everything will be kept at stock speeds and if necessary I'll replace the stock fans with Noctua ones. My main concern is keeping nearly silent operation.


----------



## dartuil

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *msgclb*
> 
> Guess what I just ordered from Swiftech!!!


a apogee HD?


----------



## msgclb

An apogee GT for my AMD 64 3200+.


----------



## M3TAl

So I was 180+ posts behind in this thread and skimmed through most it. Still no word from Linus on the 20C temp difference I assume?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> So I was 180+ posts behind in this thread and skimmed through most it. Still no word from Linus on the 20C temp difference I assume?


Not yet, last we heard they were working with him to try and see what went wrong. I'd expect some form of answer in a few days, considering it is the weekend right now.


----------



## CTM Audi

Figured Id get it now incase it does sell out.

Still got to get tubing.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> 
> 
> Figured Id get it now incase it does sell out.
> 
> Still got to get tubing.


Nice! Our loops are very similar. I think that since I'm using a much smaller case, I should be able run everything off the generous amount of tubing supplied with the H220







.


----------



## spikexp

Any idea when ncix CA will start shipping?


----------



## ez12a

shipping is $11







Does swiftech offer will call?

...and are you guys open tomorrow?


----------



## navit

Your lucky mine is 17.47. That's makes this a 157.00 cooler, I would love to give Swiftech my money but I think I will have to wait for a better shipping option


----------



## Emu105

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navit*
> 
> Your lucky mine is 17.47. That's makes this a 157.00 cooler, I would love to give Swiftech my money but I think I will have to wait for a better shipping option


This is the reason why i haven't brought it yet.


----------



## MiwaPi

I'm hoping Newegg will stock it soon, got some gift cards to spend.


----------



## navit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MiwaPi*
> 
> I'm hoping Newegg will stock it soon, got some gift cards to spend.


Thinking the same thing


----------



## TheTingez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Martinm210*
> 
> Sorry if I caused confusion. I was referring to the pump volute not the motor. The volute (casing) in the H220 looks very much like a 35x top except for the shaft support. I will add a note to clarify.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope to have my own h100i review started by the end of next weekend.
> Cheers!
> Martin


Thanks for clearing that up Martin


----------



## BrotherJoseph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> So I was 180+ posts behind in this thread and skimmed through most it. Still no word from Linus on the 20C temp difference I assume?


On his live stream he mentioned that they think there might be air trapped in the loop or around the pump.


----------



## [email protected]

Thank you OCN members for your phenomenal support.

Use the coupon code OCN and receive an instant $10 off with minimum purchase of $139.95 valid from now (7:30 pm) to Monday 3/5/13 midnight.

Enjoy your H220! and remember to contact us is you have ANY questions or issues. We are here to help!

Note: all qualifying orders received from 4PM Pacific time (when we released the product for sale) to 7:30 PM today will automatically receive the $10 off.


----------



## TheTingez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Thank you OCN members for your phenomenal support.
> 
> Use the coupon code OCN and receive an instant $10 off with minimum purchase of $139.95 valid from now (7:30 pm) to Monday 3/5/13 midnight.
> 
> Enjoy your H220! and remember to contact us is you have ANY questions or issues. We are here to help!
> 
> Note: all qualifying orders received from 4PM Pacific time (when we released the product for sale) to 7:30 PM today will automatically receive the $10 off.


You can not say fairer than than Gabe Cheers


----------



## WarMacheen

Bought, now off to get white tubes, and some other goodies for my Version 6 pc

I'm eventually going to see if the H220 can run 3 gpu blocks and 1-2 more radiators, if not into Version 5.2 it goes.


----------



## ez12a

Thanks, Gabe! just put my order in!


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Thank you OCN members for your phenomenal support.
> 
> Use the coupon code OCN and receive an instant $10 off with minimum purchase of $139.95 valid from now (7:30 pm) to Monday 3/5/13 midnight.
> 
> Enjoy your H220! and remember to contact us is you have ANY questions or issues. We are here to help!
> 
> Note: all qualifying orders received from 4PM Pacific time (when we released the product for sale) to 7:30 PM today will automatically receive the $10 off.


Awesome to hear, hope you guys sell a ton of them!


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Thank you OCN members for your phenomenal support.
> 
> Use the coupon code OCN and receive an instant $10 off with minimum purchase of $139.95 valid from now (7:30 pm) to Monday 3/5/13 midnight.
> 
> Enjoy your H220! and remember to contact us is you have ANY questions or issues. We are here to help!
> 
> Note: all qualifying orders received from 4PM Pacific time (when we released the product for sale) to 7:30 PM today will automatically receive the $10 off.


Says "Coupon Code is invalid" in red letters. Something else would should use?


----------



## Aestylis

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Thank you OCN members for your phenomenal support.
> 
> Use the coupon code OCN and receive an instant $10 off with minimum purchase of $139.95 valid from now (7:30 pm) to Monday 3/5/13 midnight.
> 
> Enjoy your H220! and remember to contact us is you have ANY questions or issues. We are here to help!
> 
> Note: all qualifying orders received from 4PM Pacific time (when we released the product for sale) to 7:30 PM today will automatically receive the $10 off.


Does this mean the H220 I ordered before this post will have the $10 off automatically applied?.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WarMacheen*
> 
> Bought, now off to get white tubes, and some other goodies for my Version 6 pc
> 
> I'm eventually going to see if the H220 can run 3 gpu blocks and 1-2 more radiators, if not into Version 5.2 it goes.


CES system had 2 GPU's and 3 Rads, that's the system I'm taking home to the kids 
I do suggest you setup the 3 GPU's in parallel (example here: http://www.swiftech.org/images/products/detail/TRIPLE-SLI-PARALLEL-SETUPx800.jpg) to reduce pressure drop, and you will be just fine 

Be patient bleeding/priming, this is a complex loop. Install H220 rad above the w/b and feed the waterblock directly from the rad (with nothing in between) so that the pump gets fed coolant directly, it'll ease priming - I did an Asus Maximus V board and made the mistake to go rad -> chipset -> waterblock and it was a b*tch to prime because air trap in the chipset block.

Good luck!


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> shipping is $11
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does swiftech offer will call?
> 
> ...and are you guys open tomorrow?


I believe that we do offer will call, but we're only open Monday through Friday. Sorry buddy. I'll see you on Monday though if you're able to make it.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aestylis*
> 
> Does this mean the H220 I ordered before this post will have the $10 off automatically applied?.


Yes it does


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Says "Coupon Code is invalid" in red letters. Something else would should use?


Fixed, sorry about this!


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I believe that we do offer will call, but we're only open Monday through Friday. Sorry buddy. I'll see you on Monday though if you're able to make it.


When will these ship?


----------



## Deeya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aestylis*
> 
> Does this mean the H220 I ordered before this post will have the $10 off automatically applied?.


It would be nice, I ordered mine before this coupon code was available. :|


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> When will these ship?


I'm not at work right now, but I'll find out for you as soon as I get in on Monday morning.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Fixed, sorry about this!


For this kind of exemplary service, I just had to buy two.
Are you guys ready to ship these on Monday, or is it late next week for shipping them out?


----------



## BrotherJoseph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deeya*
> 
> It would be nice, I ordered mine before this coupon code was available. :|


I can't imagine they would punish early adopters.


----------



## vladphotopro

Thank you everyone at Swiftech for discount to early buyers and staying up so late to answer all the questions.

Just to confirm, because Im making a custom loop with extra 360 rad and gpu block, I would have to mount pump upside down to keep inlet directly connected to the rezervoir. Mounting it with swiftech logo upside down should not matter for proper operation? Othervise I will have to criss- cross tubing. Thank you


----------



## xinel

Any idea when this will reach Australia?

I love the design.


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Thank you OCN members for your phenomenal support.
> 
> Use the coupon code OCN and receive an instant $10 off with minimum purchase of $139.95 valid from now (7:30 pm) to Monday 3/5/13 midnight.
> 
> Enjoy your H220! and remember to contact us is you have ANY questions or issues. We are here to help!
> 
> Note: all qualifying orders received from 4PM Pacific time (when we released the product for sale) to 7:30 PM today will automatically receive the $10 off.


I placed my order at 6:21PM, and $10 was not taken off. Paid with paypal. Who should I contact?


----------



## WarMacheen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> CES system had 2 GPU's and 3 Rads, that's the system I'm taking home to the kids
> I do suggest you setup the 3 GPU's in parallel (example here: http://www.swiftech.org/images/products/detail/TRIPLE-SLI-PARALLEL-SETUPx800.jpg) to reduce pressure drop, and you will be just fine
> 
> Be patient bleeding/priming, this is a complex loop. Install H220 rad above the w/b and feed the waterblock directly from the rad (with nothing in between) so that the pump gets fed coolant directly, it'll ease priming - I did an Asus Maximus V board and made the mistake to go rad -> chipset -> waterblock and it was a b*tch to prime because air trap in the chipset block.
> 
> Good luck!


Thanks for the advice Gabe, I should have all of the parts in the next couple of weeks, can't wait.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vladphotopro*
> 
> Thank you everyone at Swiftech for discount to early buyers and staying up so late to answer all the questions.
> 
> Just to confirm, because Im making a custom loop with extra 360 rad and gpu block, I would have to mount pump upside down to keep inlet directly connected to the rezervoir. Mounting it with swiftech logo upside down should not matter for proper operation? Othervise I will have to criss- cross tubing. Thank you


That's right, mounting the block with the logo upside down doesn't make any difference.


----------



## Scorpion667

Aw man I would but $59 shipping to Canada is redic. Newegg.ca is usually under $10, I'll wait for them I guess. Here's to hoping you guys will sell H320 Rad separately, to upgrade the H220.


----------



## gsk3rd

Whats the likely hood that these will be sold out by Monday?


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> CES system had 2 GPU's and 3 Rads, that's the system I'm taking home to the kids
> I do suggest you setup the 3 GPU's in parallel (example here: http://www.swiftech.org/images/products/detail/TRIPLE-SLI-PARALLEL-SETUPx800.jpg) to reduce pressure drop, and you will be just fine
> 
> Be patient bleeding/priming, this is a complex loop. Install H220 rad above the w/b and feed the waterblock directly from the rad (with nothing in between) so that the pump gets fed coolant directly, it'll ease priming - I did an Asus Maximus V board and made the mistake to go rad -> chipset -> waterblock and it was a b*tch to prime because air trap in the chipset block.
> 
> Good luck!


I have a Maximus V Formula, is it worth the time/trouble to work the chipset into the loop? Or just stick to the CPU and GPU?


----------



## vladphotopro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> That's right, mounting the block with the logo upside down doesn't make any difference.


Thank you very much!


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> I placed my order at 6:21PM, and $10 was not taken off. Paid with paypal. Who should I contact?


My work email is [email protected] . I can take care of it on Monday for you. Just send me a your invoice number.


----------



## psikeiro

Just wondering what the best way to control the fans and the pump is? How would the Swiftech reps use it?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Aw man I would but $59 shipping to Canada is redic. Newegg.ca is usually under $10, I'll wait for them I guess. Here's to hoping you guys will sell H320 Rad separately, to upgrade the H220.


The rad's in these kits are the typical 240/360 quiet power rads that Swiftech already sells.

And Psikeiro, they would probably recommend you use the 8 way splitter that the kit comes with, and plug it into your 4 pin CPU header that is on your mobo. If you want to get fancy you can use a fan controller that uses PWM to control fan speeds. You just have to make sure it actually uses PWM control, a lot of controllers regulate power by volts, which won't work with the pump.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Aw man I would but $59 shipping to Canada is redic. Newegg.ca is usually under $10, I'll wait for them I guess. Here's to hoping you guys will sell H320 Rad separately, to upgrade the H220.


They already sell a variation of it- the MCR320-QP-RES. The only significant difference is that it has G1/4 fittings instead of swivel barbs.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> Just wondering what the best way to control the fans and the pump is? How would the Swiftech reps use it?


Run the pump on one PWM header and all the PWM fans on the PWM splitter on the other PWM header







.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Run the pump on one PWM header and all the PWM fans on the PWM splitter on the other PWM header
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


and control through BIOS?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Aw man I would but $59 shipping to Canada is redic. Newegg.ca is usually under $10, I'll wait for them I guess. Here's to hoping you guys will sell H320 Rad separately, to upgrade the H220.


Why not order directly from NCIX.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> Just wondering what the best way to control the fans and the pump is? How would the Swiftech reps use it?


Use our PWM splitter. Plug the pump into channel one and your fans into any of the other seven available channels. Then connect your splitter to a Molex connector for power and the PWM connector to your CPU fan header on your motherboard. You can then mount the splitter using the included screws or the double sided tape on the back.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> and control through BIOS?


Yes, that's what I forgot to mention. This will give you control of your pump and fan spends through the BIOS.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> I have a Maximus V Formula, is it worth the time/trouble to work the chipset into the loop? Or just stick to the CPU and GPU?


In our experience it can be done, but it isn't easy to prime or bleed with the chipset included in the loop.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> In our experience it can be done, but it isn't easy to prime or bleed with the chipset included in the loop.


Thanks. I guess it might not be worth the trouble.

You guys had said that if you put the H220 rad at the bottom of the case, and add a 320 at the top you need to take out the H220 rad and hold it above the pump while you prime and fill. Since you sell a QP 320 with and without a reservoir, does it make any sense to have use a 320 with a res at top and thus have two rads with reservoirs?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> In our experience it can be done, but it isn't easy to prime or bleed with the chipset included in the loop.


If you are priming, couldn't you disconnect the inlet tube from whatever else it is connected to, put water into it directly to get water in the pump, put the tube back and than prime? I'd imagine it would help push water around the system and get the remaining air out of the chipset, or am I off base?


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Yes, that's what I forgot to mention. This will give you control of your pump and fan spends through the BIOS.


Last question, given my BIOS looks like this, what settings would I be using for optimal performance without compromising noise?


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> They already sell a variation of it- the MCR320-QP-RES. The only significant difference is that it has G1/4 fittings instead of swivel barbs.


The MCR series rads are a little difference, since they are 34mm thick instead of 29mm.


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> Last question, given my BIOS looks like this, what settings would I be using for optimal performance without compromising noise?


You would use manul/pwm then set the value based on your prefrence. You would need to try out each one. I like .75, as its the quietest.

Sppedfan offers more control though.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> You would use manul/pwm then set the value based on your prefrence. You would need to try out each one. I like .75, as its the quietest.
> 
> Sppedfan offers more control though.


Thanks, I'm not comfortable with speedfan, that's why I'd rather go with the BIOS settings.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> Thanks, I'm not comfortable with speedfan, that's why I'd rather go with the BIOS settings.


Yea, just play around with the PWM settings. Start on a medium/low setting, see how the noise is, see how your temps are, move from there.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Thanks. I guess it might not be worth the trouble.
> 
> You guys had said that if you put the H220 rad at the bottom of the case, and add a 320 at the top you need to take out the H220 rad and hold it above the pump while you prime and fill. Since you sell a QP 320 with and without a reservoir, does it make any sense to have use a 320 with a res at top and thus have two rads with reservoirs?


The benefit that you'll get from having a reservoir in the top rad is that you'll be able to use the top rad to fill and prime your loop. Since it will already be above the pump this should make bleeding and priming easier.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> If you are priming, couldn't you disconnect the inlet tube from whatever else it is connected to, put water into it directly to get water in the pump, put the tube back and than prime? I'd imagine it would help push water around the system and get the remaining air out of the chipset, or am I off base?


That could help, but you'll run a risk of overspill if you do it inside the case. The other problem is that this will be hard to do because the air in the tubing will make it difficult for the fluid to get to the pump. It's hard to explain, but it won't be easy to do.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> The benefit that you'll get from having a reservoir in the top rad is that you'll be able to use the top rad to fill and prime your loop. Since it will already be above the pump this should make bleeding and priming easier.


Ok so the MCR320-QP-RES-R2, sounds like what I want at the top correct? A couple dollars more for much easier filling and bleeding sounds like a good deal.

So there are no problem/issues with having two rads (with both havening built in reservoirs) in the same loop?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Ok so the MCR320-QP-RES-R2, sounds like what I want at the top correct? A couple dollars more for much easier filling and bleeding sounds like a good deal.
> 
> So there are no problem/issues with having two rads (with both havening built in reservoirs) in the same loop?


No, not at all.


----------



## CudaBoy71

Getting ready to pull the trigger on this for my sig rig. Are there any suggestions as too what I may need to add to the kit to make it perform better then My mega ?


----------



## TheGovernment

They'd better start shipping from ncix soon. I know I'm the first pre-order they got. Maybe they'll send me a puppy for being first?


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> No, not at all.


Thanks.
You create an Official owners thread yet?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Thanks.
> You create an Official owners thread yet?


No, I would think that would be something Gabe would want to do himself.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CudaBoy71*
> 
> Getting ready to pull the trigger on this for my sig rig. Are there any suggestions as too what I may need to add to the kit to make it perform better then My mega ?


No, it should be better right out of the box. You can always add a couple more Helix PWM fans though for push/pull.


----------



## MadGoat

so these are finally shipping?

This might be exactly what I need for this 8350 I picked up....


----------



## msgclb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Thank you OCN members for your phenomenal support.
> 
> Use the coupon code OCN and receive an instant $10 off with minimum purchase of $139.95 valid from now (7:30 pm) to Monday 3/5/13 midnight.
> 
> Enjoy your H220! and remember to contact us is you have ANY questions or issues. We are here to help!
> 
> Note: all qualifying orders received from 4PM Pacific time (when we released the product for sale) to 7:30 PM today will automatically receive the $10 off.


*Order Information*


Order Number:xxxxDate:3/2/2013 4:03 PMStatus:Order Received

This afternoon I shutdown my main rig to fix a problem that has been nagging me so just after getting back into Windows I started my browser and refreshed my Swiftech shopping list and found the H220 was available. It didn't take that long to get my CC and look at the time.


----------



## Phelan

Quick question: I still have the LGA 2011 screw kit from my Apogee Drive 2. I can use it instead if I prefer, correct? I like the look of the larger screw heads better.


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> My work email is [email protected] . I can take care of it on Monday for you. Just send me a your invoice number.


I already emailed [email protected], will that do?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> I already emailed [email protected], will that do?


Yes, that will do.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Quick question: I still have the LGA 2011 screw kit from my Apogee Drive 2. I can use it instead if I prefer, correct? I like the look of the larger screw heads better.


I believe so, but I won't know for sure until I get into work on Monday and confirm that.


----------



## SpykeZ

Longest....news thread...in history of OCN haha

I'm glad to see Swiftech getting so much support from this. It'll def give them new ideas on how to go forward with products knowing how many people are buying their stuff up
















I was going to get an aquacomputer GPU block for my 7950 but it's out of stock until the end of this year it looks like so I'll be going with the Komodo.


----------



## SDBolts619

Heh, placed my order tonight but hadn't seen the promo code when I did it. Oh well. I sure hope mine ships Monday - should get it here in San Diego Tuesday if it does.


----------



## ez12a

+1 I hope it ships Monday! I have some new toys coming in at work to tide me over until then.


----------



## Totally Dubbed

If only I could have bought from a company like Amazon where I could return it, I would buy it straight away.
So far on stock voltages my max temp, with the Antec 920 is 58c..as I'm de-lidded.


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Totally Dubbed*
> 
> If only I could have bought from a company like Amazon where I could return it, I would buy it straight away.
> So far on stock voltages my max temp, with the Antec 920 is 58c..as I'm de-lidded.


Looks like Im going to need to de-lid my new 3570K. It seems decent with voltage, 4.5Ghz stable with 1.2V, but runs hotter then the others Ive had. Man I wish I never sold my good one, did 4.7 stable with 1.22V and temps were 10C cooler then Im at now.


----------



## TheTingez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> No, I would think that would be something Gabe would want to do himself.


Bram, could you keep me informed with regard to the tutorial Vids. you were talking about ? Also would i be able to use said Vids. in my shop without getting in trouble with Gabe ... lol

I have been considering making a display ( if i actually have the time to do this ) of the H220 in my shop BUT change the tubing to clear so people that either do not understand liquid cooling AIO's or are scared of liquid cooling inside there PC can get a better grip on in this case your H220.

I think a display with the H220 and the tutorial Vids. playing behind would look great in my shop as i say if i manage to find the time to do it ... lol


----------



## Roadkill95

Patiently waiting for the h320 white tube edition


----------



## chronicfx

May have missed the post on when we can expect the h320 to hit market??


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> Just watched the Linus review video. OUCH!!! Those stock fan numbers are bad!!!! Swiftech got some bad publicity there. Hope they get this stuff straightened out soon.


What is bad is their review









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> So I was 180+ posts behind in this thread and skimmed through most it. Still no word from Linus on the 20C temp difference I assume?


No need for it anyway. Just wait for Martin's numbers, he knows his stuff.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> Thank you OCN members for your phenomenal support.
> 
> Use the coupon code OCN and receive an instant $10 off with minimum purchase of $139.95 valid from now (7:30 pm) to Monday 3/5/13 midnight.
> 
> Enjoy your H220! and remember to contact us is you have ANY questions or issues. We are here to help!
> 
> Note: all qualifying orders received from 4PM Pacific time (when we released the product for sale) to 7:30 PM today will automatically receive the $10 off.


Come on, where is the love for the euro folks?









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> Just wondering what the best way to control the fans and the pump is? How would the Swiftech reps use it?


This is a tricky one. Keep in mind that the max rpm on the pump is much higher than on the fans, which means that controlling both with the same controller is not exactly a good idea, as pwm is based on % and not on rpm.

Meaning: if you set the motherboard at 70% the pump will be running at 2100rpm... and keep in mind that the pump speed barely affects performance whereas the fans speed do, and a lot. If I were you I'd get an additional pwm controller board and use one for the pump and the other for all the fans. This way you can make your system silent yet good performing at all times.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Run the pump on one PWM header and all the PWM fans on the PWM splitter on the other PWM header
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Use our PWM splitter. Plug the pump into channel one and your fans into any of the other seven available channels. Then connect your splitter to a Miles for power and the PWM connector to your CPU fan header on your motherboard. You can then mount the splitter using the included screws or the double sided tape on the back.


What is the pump power consumption at 50% speed? I'm asking because if its not big enough it would be wise to plug the pump directly into any pwm-capable 4-pin plug in your motherboard and use any other for the pwm board and all the fans connected to it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> If you are priming, couldn't you disconnect the inlet tube from whatever else it is connected to, put water into it directly to get water in the pump, put the tube back and than prime? I'd imagine it would help push water around the system and get the remaining air out of the chipset, or am I off base?


Sure you could. But remember to connect the tube before starting the pump, and that once the system if half filled you won't be able to keep filling it if the air has nowhere to go. In big loops its a wise idea to have a reservoir if anything because it makes the bleeding and filling much much easier, and having a valve to empty the loop is also a wise idea.

At the end of the day, those things make the servicing much simpler. I can tell you that its a PITA to service a loop that has no empty valve nor reservoir without spilling a drop over your system.


----------



## JackieTran

I was thinking of expanding it this straight with my friends old mcw60. It's kinda old so is it still compatible with modern day gpu's?


----------



## Neo Zuko

So I ordered up the H220, a black plug fitting (I'm not big on the default chrome plated one as it is needlessly mixing metals), and three more PWM splitters. Thanks for the $10 off coupon.

I was going to wait for the H320, then go to full on custom from there... but I would just replace that H320 rad with a Black Ice 360 rad in the long run. However with the H220, I can fit that in as well as the three 360/480/480 Black Ice rads I have planned.

For now, I just want to check out this kit, try this awesome pump, test those Helix PWM fans, get a total 4 of those PWM splitter bought, get out of Corsair Hydro CPU coolers, and get a Swiftech logo in my CaseLabs Merlin SM8.

Now I need to sell off that H100i...


----------



## AdamMT

Anyone have a suggestion for setting up the pump speed in a cpu-only setup with an i7 3930K? I'm thinking it's probably not necessary to push the pump much over 50% power at 100% load? What would be a good minimum setting for idle?


----------



## prava

This OC3D guys.... they are terribly funny.... instead of showing only the Delta T, which is the only thing that matters, they show you the actual temperature of the processor, way to go!!!!!

Also:

*Results from their review of the Corsair H100i:*



So, according to them, the XSPC EX240 kit is a lot better than the H100i...

...The EX240 rad is more or less the same as an RS240, according to Martin...

...according to Martin, too, the Swiftech H220 beats the XSPC 750 RS240 kit...

... applying some logic, the H220 should be soundly the H100i.

.......

What boggles me, though, is how is it possible that the H100i improves so much with LGA2011.

*@LGA1366: 4.4ghz 1.45V*
-H100: 60ºC
-H100i: 62.2ºC

*@LGA2011: 4.6ghz 1.42V*
-H100: 60ºC
-H100i: 52ºC

http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/audio/corsair_h100i_review/2

It improves 10ºC from one test to the other.... but oh well, OC3D is not a good reviewer at all, lets just wait for Martin's numbers...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> So I ordered up the H220, a black plug fitting (I'm not big on the default chrome plated one as I'm avoiding mixing metals), and three more PWM splitters. Thanks for the $10 off coupon.
> 
> I was going to wait for the H320, then go to full on custom from there... but I would replace that H320 rad with a Black Ice 360 rad anyway in the long run. However with the H220, I can fit that in as well as the three big Black Ice rads that I have planed for my end game setup.
> 
> For now, I just want to check out this kit, try this awesome pump, test those Helix PWM fans, get a total 4 of those PWM splitter bought, get out of Corsair Hydro CPU coolers, and get a Swiftech logo in my CaseLabs Merlin SM8.
> 
> Now I need to sell off that H100i...


Swiftech rads are actually very good for the money they cost. IMO, its not worth it to go for the high-end rads unless you have a very limited space for rads and can't fit as many as you wish. So, if you plan to put a few rads in your system, any will do, and you will save money going Swiftech.

Ah! And worry not, that Swiftech's plating is top notch. The only plating problems that I know of where EK's... and they were nickel-problems, not chrome related.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Anyone have a suggestion for setting up the pump speed in a cpu-only setup with an i7 3930K? I'm thinking it's probably not necessary to push the pump much over 50% power at 100% load? What would be a good minimum setting for idle?


That would your decision oh how you want your system cooled and sound.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> I was thinking of expanding it this straight with my friends old mcw60. It's kinda old so is it still compatible with modern day gpu's?


The mounting holes are the same, but the MCW82 will give you better performance.


----------



## geoxile

So how does the pump on the H220 compare to discrete pumps? Is it decently strong? How quiet? Etc.

I'm on the fence about getting this.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> So how does the pump on the H220 compare to discrete pumps? Is it decently strong? How quiet? Etc.
> 
> I'm on the fence about getting this.


Pump is very strong enough to handle another rad and 2x GPU blocks.
As for sound you set it yourself, like any pump currently.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> So how does the pump on the H220 compare to discrete pumps? Is it decently strong? How quiet? Etc.
> 
> I'm on the fence about getting this.


It's a 6 watt pump that runs at 3000 rpm max. If you want a real review of this kit and a better understanding of the pump, I suggest you take a look at the review on Martin'sLiqudLab.org . His testing methods and reviews are some of the best and most concise in the industry.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Edit


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> So how does the pump on the H220 compare to discrete pumps? Is it decently strong? How quiet? Etc.
> 
> I'm on the fence about getting this.


Swiftech's internal testing always matched those of the real reviewers out there. So, taking their word for granted that the H220 pump performs just as well as a MCP 35X @ 3000 rpm, we get this (look the graph for the 30 and 40% pwm plotted line, and take the one in between).



http://martinsliquidlab.org/2011/02/25/swiftech-mcp-35x-reservoir/

So, I'd say its more than good enough for a few blocks... but If you plan to have some, either you go parallel or it might not be powerful enough.


----------



## justanoldman

BramSLI1,
In the one video on your site it shows installing the H220 with the pump and fans on the splitter, with the pump in the first slot. But it has been pointed out here that means you are controlling the fans and pump with the same %.

On the other video he puts the fans directly to the cpu fan slots, then connects the pump to another mobo fan connection. That would allow you to control the pump and fans with separate % in bios.

I guess my question is, since it seems like you can go either way, is one better than the other, or is it all just personal preference? Does it cause any issues to be controlling the pump and fans simultaneously with the same %, like when they are all plugged into the splitter?


----------



## JackieTran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> The mounting holes are the same, but the MCW82 will give you better performance.


Is there any difference between radeon vga caerds and nvidias?
Its the gpu block fron the swiftech h20-220 apex ultima plus


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> BramSLI1,
> In the one video on your site it shows installing the H220 with the pump and fans on the splitter, with the pump in the first slot. But it has been pointed out here that means you are controlling the fans and pump with the same %.
> 
> On the other video he puts the fans directly to the cpu fan slots, then connects the pump to another mobo fan connection. That would allow you to control the pump and fans with separate % in bios.
> 
> I guess my question is, since it seems like you can go either way, is one better than the other, or is it all just personal preference? Does it cause any issues to be controlling the pump and fans simultaneously with the same %, like when they are all plugged into the splitter?


Here is how they respond while all hooked to the same splitter:



http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/01/27/swiftech-h220-prefilled-2x120mm-water-cooling-kit/5/


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> BramSLI1,
> In the one video on your site it shows installing the H220 with the pump and fans on the splitter, with the pump in the first slot. But it has been pointed out here that means you are controlling the fans and pump with the same %.
> 
> On the other video he puts the fans directly to the cpu fan slots, then connects the pump to another mobo fan connection. That would allow you to control the pump and fans with separate % in bios.
> 
> I guess my question is, since it seems like you can go either way, is one better than the other, or is it all just personal preference? Does it cause any issues to be controlling the pump and fans simultaneously with the same %, like when they are all plugged into the splitter?


It really depends on whether or not you want to control and monitor the pump and fan speeds separately. I suggest you try one way and then the other and determine for yourself which one is better for you.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> Is there any difference between radeon vga caerds and nvidias?
> Its the gpu block fron the swiftech h20-220 apex ultima plus


There is a difference on the latest Radeon cards. I believe the 79XX series started using a different way that they have the chip oriented and therefore we had to come up with a change to our MCW82 specifically for them. If you have one of these cards, and the holes line up with our block, you'll need to get the MCW82-7900. If you use your older block on one of these series of cards you won't get the proper contact on the chip and you might even damage the card.


----------



## geoxile

So how would this compare to say, the RS360 kit?


----------



## Neo Zuko

I would honestly say at this price there is nothing like the H220's quality.


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> So how would this compare to say, the RS360 kit?


Wait for the H320 to release than you can compare them!


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> Wait for the H320 to release than you can compare them!


Why? I'm only interested in the H220


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> Wait for the H320 to release than you can compare them!
> 
> 
> 
> Why? I'm only interested in the H220
Click to expand...

Reason H220 is 240mm rad, RS360 is 360mm rad and H320mm is 360 rad.
So to compare the RS360, the H320 would be what you look at.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Yeah, that was a tough era to be a sailor, or any service member for that matter. I served from March of 2001 to Nov. of 2010. I enjoyed most of it except for the last couple years when they forced me to become a Sea Bee or member of a Construction Battalion. I'm color blind and in the Navy's wisdom it wasn't safe to have me working on survival equipment any longer. It's funny because color actually had more to do with my job as a Construction Mechanic because of the color-coded hydraulic schematics than it ever had to with my job as a Parachute Rigger.


Well we can can chalk that up to military "intelligience" LOL


----------



## guinner16

Ouch. I put in an order saturday morning for an 8 way splitter because I want to get all my stuff organized and ready to drop the H220 in (expecting the H220 not to be ready until the end of the week). Then that night the H220 goes on sale. I got tagged for $10 shipping and then $17 shipping. Oh well, at this point I just need the stuff here. Do we have word if they H220 will ship on Monday, or is supply not in yet, and they are expecting to ship at the end of the week.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> That's right, mounting the block with the logo upside down doesn't make any difference.[/quote
> 
> I wish I could preorder my H320 to take advantage of the $10 off.


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Reason H220 is 240mm rad, RS360 is 360mm rad and H320mm is 360 rad.
> So to compare the RS360, the H320 would be what you look at.


Why? I want to see how the 220 compares to a kit with a larger rad, not how the 320 compares. I have no interest in the inevitably more expensive 320, only in the 220.


----------



## chronicfx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> Why? I want to see how the 220 compares to a kit with a larger rad, not how the 320 compares. I have no interest in the inevitably more expensive 320, only in the 220.


I also would like to see the temp drop from going from the dual rad h220 to the triple rad h320. It's a natural question when deciding whether to shell out the extra $$


----------



## Pure2sin

I just ordered mine. Hopefully I will get it soon.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> Why? I want to see how the 220 compares to a kit with a larger rad, not how the 320 compares. I have no interest in the inevitably more expensive 320, only in the 220.


well like for like it will match the rs240
http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/01/27/swiftech-h220-prefilled-2x120mm-water-cooling-kit/7/
so assuming the rs360 is better given that it has an extra 120 cooling area then it's going to be better.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Reason H220 is 240mm rad, RS360 is 360mm rad and H320mm is 360 rad.
> So to compare the RS360, the H320 would be what you look at.
> 
> 
> 
> Why? I want to see how the 220 compares to a kit with a larger rad, not how the 320 compares. I have no interest in the inevitably more expensive 320, only in the 220.
Click to expand...

If you have no interest in the H320, then why compare to the RS360. H320 will be about $160, $20 more than the H220.
Logic it do not make sense. If you are interested in a 360 rad, then naturally the H320 would come to mind.


----------



## Convex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> The Apogee Drive II comes with a blue, red and a green insert so that the LED will match the color of your system.


Where else can I get these collord inserts? :/


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> well like for like it will match the rs240
> http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/01/27/swiftech-h220-prefilled-2x120mm-water-cooling-kit/7/
> so assuming the rs360 is better given that it has an extra 120 cooling area then it's going to be better.


By how much?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> If you have no interest in the H320, then why compare to the RS360. H320 will be about $160, $20 more than the H220.
> Logic it do not make sense. If you are interested in a 360 rad, then naturally the H320 would come to mind.


Because I'm interested in how the H220 squares up against more expensive and higher-end competitors. I'm not going to base my decision based solely on how it performs in comparison to everything inferior to it because it doesn't give me a proper idea of where it places overall and how good of a value it really is. Anyway, enough of your half-witted fanboyism, I hardly have the patience for it.


----------



## Avonosac

Weeee! Time to mod my server case and get my HydroGen 580 ready! Plus my prodigy and titan are starting to get itchy for some water


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> By how much?


that would depend on what your cooling a cpu with no overclock wouldn't make the 240 sweat so a 360 would hardly make a difference, but if your drawing the max the rads can do and this is assumption 1/3 being that you have 3x120 over 2x120 . but I'm no expert I'm just assuming and not all makes of rads perform the same just because they are the same size


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> By how much?


That depends on the components used, and how hot your CPU is. It may be 2C better in build, or 8C in another.

More rad area is mainly for running more things. There usually isnt much difference in a 2x120 vs 3x120 when only cooling the CPU. But when adding in GPUs and other things, you need more rad area.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Convex*
> 
> Where else can I get these collord inserts? :/


As far as I know they only come with the Apogee Drive II. They're just different colored pieces of acrylic though.


----------



## iceman0C

So I have 2 PWM cougar vortex's lying around .... is it a good idea to use them with the included Helix's in a push/pull? Will differing fan designs matter if used on the same rad in a push/pull?


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman0C*
> 
> So I have 2 PWM cougar vortex's lying around .... is it a good idea to use them with the included Helix's in a push/pull? Will differing fan designs matter if used on the same rad in a push/pull?


It won't, or rather, it shouldn't. The differences in airflow between those two isn't enough to cause any disturbance.


----------



## Phishy714

delete. double post. Damn phone.


----------



## iceman0C

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> delete. double post. Damn phone.


Ok to go into slightly more detail, PWM is based on % ... so will different(albeit similar) fans have same RPMs when connected to the PWM splitter?


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman0C*
> 
> Ok to go into slightly more detail, PWM is based on % ... so will different(albeit similar) fans have same RPMs when connected to the PWM splitter?


the easy answer put the 2 cougar vortex's push pull on 1 side and the helix on the other that way they wont effect eachother


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman0C*
> 
> Ok to go into slightly more detail, PWM is based on % ... so will different(albeit similar) fans have same RPMs when connected to the PWM splitter?


No they won't. Some fans are rated for a max for 2500rpm, while others can only be 1800rpm max (i think). Therefore, they will be at different RPM's at 30% for example. In the case of your COUGAR fan, it looks like its max is set for 1500rpm, so they will both be spinning at different RPM's, yes.

However, I still don't think the difference of lets say 1200rpm helix vs 1050rpm Cougar is going to do anything bad. You wouldn't notice a difference between that setup and 4 helix fans either. The only time you would notice something, I think, is if you paired up a crazy 3000rpm MAX fan with like.. a 700RPM max fan lol.


----------



## iceman0C

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> the easy answer put the 2 cougar vortex's push pull on 1 side and the helix on the other that way they wont effect eachother


Yes I thought of that, but the aesthetics weren't ideal


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceman0C*
> 
> Ok to go into slightly more detail, PWM is based on % ... so will different(albeit similar) fans have same RPMs when connected to the PWM splitter?


Nope. Its not something that simple. Different pwm designs will behave differently based on the pwm signal they are feeded. The simplest example you have it on the H220 itself:



http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/01/27/swiftech-h220-prefilled-2x120mm-water-cooling-kit/5/

You can clearly see that Swiftech intended the pump to be variable while you keep your fans at 100%, so that you make your pump a bit more silent whilst not reducing performance from lowering your fans rpm's. Kinda wise decision.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> Because I'm interested in how the H220 squares up against more expensive and higher-end competitors. I'm not going to base my decision based solely on how it performs in comparison to everything inferior to it because it doesn't give me a proper idea of where it places overall and how good of a value it really is. Anyway, enough of your half-witted fanboyism, I hardly have the patience for it.


You can't simply compare apples to oranges. For starters, the H220 is superior to the RS240.... so, improving the rad would be as easy as understanding how rads affect performance. At the end of the day rad increase decreases the Delta T more or less linearly... which means that improving rad capacity by 50% will lower your Delta T by 33%.

So, how this Delta decrease will affect cpu temperature? Each block has a certain Delta T water/core (how higher the core temperature will be over the water temperature) that varies depending on the cpu used, voltage, load, frequency, IHS, and some other variables... you add such water/core + your ambient temp + the water/air Delta T of your system and will have the improvements.

Let me put an example. Lets imagine the following:

200W cpu
35ºC water/core Delta for that particular cpu and setting (its a very average number, better blocks might get better temperatures)
25ºC Ambient temperature
1550 rpm yate loons
C/W = 0,031 (like a Swiftech MCR220, as tested by Martin)
a) Swiftech MCR220: the cpu temperature would be: 0,031*200 + 25 + 35 = 66.2ºC

b) Swiftech MCR320: the cpu temperature would be: 0,021*200 + 25 + 35 = 64.2ºC

Keep in mind one thing: the lower you keep your fans, the bigger the difference will be. If we were to run our fans silently.... les say, at 1000rpm, the differences would be:

a) Double rad: 70ºC
c) Triple rad: 66.6ºC

An so on.

So... yes, performance difference wouldn't be too big at all, but the bigger the rad the more silent you can keep your fans. So, unless you want the really best or you plan to put a very heavy load on your system, I wouldn't bother with a triple rad at all. Even more: you could put a gpu into the H220 provided you wouldn't expect to run both the cpu and gpu at 100% load at the same time.

People underestimate many things about watercooling...


----------



## BramSLI1

Just to let everyone know, the installation video is now on the Swiftech Facebook page. Let the trolling begin! On second thought, please don't. If any of you have ideas or things you would like to see discussed for the upgrade and the maintenance video, please drop me a PM and I'll discuss it with Gabe and Stephen.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Just to let everyone know, the installation video is now on the Swiftech Facebook page. Let the trolling begin! On second thought, please don't. If any of you have ideas or things you would like to see discussed for the upgrade and the maintenance video, please drop me a PM and I'll discuss it with Gabe and Stephen.


How about a link. Can't find it.


----------



## dartuil

i can put a face on your profil BRAMSLI1


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> How about a link. Can't find it.


Here's the link. https://www.facebook.com/SwiftechUSA


----------



## guinner16

A video on draining the system. Changing the tubes and re filling would be amazing. Also down the road I would like to see a set up video on a system that has been expanded


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> A video on draining the system. Changing the tubes and re filling would be amazing. Also down the road I would like to see a set up video on a system that has been expanded


Those are all in the works.


----------



## dartuil

yeah we said they are planning to do it soon if I remember well


----------



## RX7-2nr

I want to order this sucker but I'm going to wait for more reviews and testimonials.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Here's the link. https://www.facebook.com/SwiftechUSA


Way too much thermal paste on the CPU, it'd be wise to tell the users to not use anything even remotely close to that, a rice grain sized amount will do for LGA1155/1156, pea sized amount for LGA2011


----------



## CTM Audi

I was about to post and say be prepared for comments on the TIM job, but its too late lol.

Did put quite a bit too much.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Those are all in the works.


Perfect. Anyone new to this doesn't know anything at all about bleeding, filling, priming, cutting tubs, hooking up fittings, connecting to another rad, and adding GPU(s) to the loop. I know that is a lot, but broken into a few different videos, I think you guys will be able to take all of us know nothings and get us to expand and customize our H220s.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Here's the link. https://www.facebook.com/SwiftechUSA


Thank-You.


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Perfect. Anyone new to this doesn't know anything at all about bleeding, filling, priming, cutting tubs, hooking up fittings, connecting to another rad, and adding GPU(s) to the loop. I know that is a lot, but broken into a few different videos, I think you guys will be able to take all of us know nothings and get us to expand and customize our H220s.


Yeah priming and bleeding would be a huge help.


----------



## ez12a

Does Swiftech have their own youtube channel? I think you guys should look into developing one! I think youtube is more accessible and you can always embed youtube links in facebook posts too. As a partner you can get a lot more information on demographic and locations of viewers.









plus you guys could generate some side revenue through ads if you wanted to. Just a thought!


----------



## geoxile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> snip


So the impression you're giving me is that it should hold up fairly well. I don't really plan to expand the loop to include a GPU, mainly because I think GPU blocks are just too expensive for me to justify. But I do want something that I can use for several builds, so almost a decade. How reliable would the H220 be? In terms of longevity.


----------



## AdamMT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> So the impression you're giving me is that it should hold up fairly well. I don't really plan to expand the loop to include a GPU, mainly because I think GPU blocks are just too expensive for me to justify. But I do want something that I can use for several builds, so almost a decade. How reliable would the H220 be? In terms of longevity.


Reliability would probably be okay, but the problem you're likely to have is that the block may not fit future processors, and since the pump is integrated with the block, you would essentially be left with just a radiator, fans, and tubes ... if the block becomes a relic.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Reliability would probably be okay, but the problem you're likely to have is that the block may not fit future processors, and since the pump is integrated with the block, you would essentially be left with just a radiator, fans, and tubes ... if the block becomes a relic.


Eh, wouldn't worry too much about that. Swiftech will release new mounting systems if they change, and considering how long intel/AMD have had their mainstream chips be somewhat compatible with new cooling solutions...it's not too much an issue.

However, I don't know if the pump would last a decade. It's one of the better pumps for reliability, but it's rated for 60,000 hours, probably will last 6-7 years, but the warranty only promises it for 3.


----------



## CTM Audi

I need to make changes to my order, whats the best way to do so before it ships?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> I need to make changes to my order, whats the best way to do so before it ships?


Contact us in the morning and hopefully we can make the changes to your order before it ships. My email address is [email protected] . We open at 8:00 am PST.


----------



## Pure2sin

Its going to be a fun Monday for you guys! Keep up the good work!


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Contact us in the morning and hopefully we can make the changes to your order before it ships. My email address is [email protected] . We open at 8:00 am PST.


Thanks, just sent you an email.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Nope. Its not something that simple. Different pwm designs will behave differently based on the pwm signal they are feeded. The simplest example you have it on the H220 itself:
> 
> 
> 
> http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/01/27/swiftech-h220-prefilled-2x120mm-water-cooling-kit/5/
> 
> You can clearly see that Swiftech intended the pump to be variable while you keep your fans at 100%, so that you make your pump a bit more silent whilst not reducing performance from lowering your fans rpm's. Kinda wise decision.
> You can't simply compare apples to oranges. For starters, the H220 is superior to the RS240.... so, improving the rad would be as easy as understanding how rads affect performance. At the end of the day rad increase decreases the Delta T more or less linearly... which means that improving rad capacity by 50% will lower your Delta T by 33%.
> 
> So, how this Delta decrease will affect cpu temperature? Each block has a certain Delta T water/core (how higher the core temperature will be over the water temperature) that varies depending on the cpu used, voltage, load, frequency, IHS, and some other variables... you add such water/core + your ambient temp + the water/air Delta T of your system and will have the improvements.
> 
> Let me put an example. Lets imagine the following:
> 
> 200W cpu
> 35ºC water/core Delta for that particular cpu and setting (its a very average number, better blocks might get better temperatures)
> 25ºC Ambient temperature
> 1550 rpm yate loons
> C/W = 0,031 (like a Swiftech MCR220, as tested by Martin)
> a) Swiftech MCR220: the cpu temperature would be: 0,031*200 + 25 + 35 = 66.2ºC
> 
> b) Swiftech MCR320: the cpu temperature would be: 0,021*200 + 25 + 35 = 64.2ºC
> 
> Keep in mind one thing: the lower you keep your fans, the bigger the difference will be. If we were to run our fans silently.... les say, at 1000rpm, the differences would be:
> 
> a) Double rad: 70ºC
> c) Triple rad: 66.6ºC
> 
> An so on.
> 
> So... yes, performance difference wouldn't be too big at all, but the bigger the rad the more silent you can keep your fans. So, unless you want the really best or you plan to put a very heavy load on your system, I wouldn't bother with a triple rad at all. Even more: you could put a gpu into the H220 provided you wouldn't expect to run both the cpu and gpu at 100% load at the same time.
> 
> People underestimate many things about watercooling...


Nice info, perhaps I could get with you on my fan/rad plans in my uber system to find the right balance.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Nice info


except for this bit "the H220 is superior to the RS240" martins tests showed it to perform the same


----------



## Neo Zuko

Nice video Brian, I just have one question... is it easy to install? JK! Cool video.


----------



## psycow

Another review:
http://www.rwlabs.com/article.php?cat=&id=784&pagenumber=1


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psycow*
> 
> Another review:
> http://www.rwlabs.com/article.php?cat=&id=784&pagenumber=1


It's not new and this beating an RX360 be real


----------



## chronicfx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> It's not new and this beating an RX360 be real


As awesome a performer as the h220 is, i dont think beating a thicker triple rad is legit. Martin had the rs240 neck and neck within 2 degrees. The rx is supposed to be about 7% better than the rs and then you are adding an extra 120mm of rad. Thats simply not right.


----------



## Phishy714

Sent ya an email Bram!


----------



## Thrasher1016

Oh, so now someone says the H220 beats a better setup and YA'LL cry foul?








Cry me a river...
We've been sitting here saying the same thing about the Corsair results for days upon days.

If it's not legit, fine. I can honestly say that based on the kits in question, it's entirely possible that something's amiss. But don't make it out to be a false review just because of the results, because we spent the last two WEEKS trying to get some sense stuffed into the conversation regarding the Swiftech / Corsair thing...









Thanks - T


----------



## Avonosac

Well, the cooling and tubing isn't available.... So now I have 2 questions, what alternative coolant and tubing to get, also how much coolant should I get for 2 H220 Loops with 1 GPU in each? One of the loops will have a 2nd 220-QP in it as well.

:|


----------



## chronicfx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrasher1016*
> 
> Oh, so now someone says the H220 beats a better setup and YA'LL cry foul?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cry me a river...
> We've been sitting here saying the same thing about the Corsair results for days upon days.
> 
> If it's not legit, fine. I can honestly say that based on the kits in question, it's entirely possible that something's amiss. But don't make it out to be a false review just because of the results, because we spent the last two WEEKS trying to get some sense stuffed into the conversation regarding the Swiftech / Corsair thing...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks - T


If you are referring to my post. I didnt mean to upset you. When i look at stability numbers from my chemists and they tell me that x product is showing a higher number at one year than it did at 6 months in a forced degredation chamber i dont ask them how hard they worked on it. I usually tell them it makes no sense. And why are you worried about corsair. Damn thing sounds like a lawnmower.


----------



## dartuil

still no thread for the h220?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> Sent ya an email Bram!


I take it that you're Christopher. Just to confirm, you just need the $10 applied to your order? If that isn't what you need please specify so that I can get you taken care of.


----------



## Phishy714

Nope, sorry I am Jose A.

Subject line was : Shipping Options.


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chronicfx*
> 
> If you are referring to my post. I didnt mean to upset you. When i look at stability numbers from my chemists and they tell me that x product is showing a higher number at one year than it did at 6 months in a forced degredation chamber i dont ask them how hard they worked on it. I usually tell them it makes no sense. And why are you worried about corsair. Damn thing sounds like a lawnmower.


Oh, you didn't offend!!!









I have found quite a few quite - shall we say - "interesting' threads regarding this setup, and it's just that some of the hating has migrated here.
This was originally for informational and Q&A purposes, so I guess it's just that, really...









I'm more worried about this system in the hands of a user such as myself, and how it works for us, TBH, because that's going to be the real litmus test.

Thanks - T


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> Nope, sorry I am Jose A.
> 
> Subject line was : Shipping Options.


Michelle isn't in yet, but as soon as she gets in I'll have her look into it for you and I'll get back to you shortly.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Well, the cooling and tubing isn't available.... So now I have 2 questions, what alternative coolant and tubing to get, also how much coolant should I get for 2 H220 Loops with 1 GPU in each? One of the loops will have a 2nd 220-QP in it as well.
> 
> :|


Coolant should be there this week, and tubing next.
If you can't wait, just get some Hydrx-PM as coolant, and any 3/8x5/8 tubing will do the job.


----------



## justanoldman

Do we know when the H220 will start shipping?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Coolant should be there this week, and tubing next.
> If you can't wait, just get some Hydrx-PM as coolant, and any 3/8x5/8 tubing will do the job.


Will only the black tubing be arriving next week, or can we also expect the white?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Do we know when the H220 will start shipping?


most likely today.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Will only the black tubing be arriving next week, or can we also expect the white?


only black - do not expect white tubing for another few weeks.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> So the impression you're giving me is that it should hold up fairly well. I don't really plan to expand the loop to include a GPU, mainly because I think GPU blocks are just too expensive for me to justify. But I do want something that I can use for several builds, so almost a decade. How reliable would the H220 be? In terms of longevity.


There is a trick... use a GPU universal block







Sure, you will require some heatsinks for the other parts of the card, but they are kinda cheap and you will silence the noisiest part of your computer. The H220 features a 3 year warranty and the MTBF of the pump is terrific (60.000 hours!).

Still, in this industry nothing warrants such a decade compatibility... and, for what is worth, it appears that Haswell (LGA1150) will use the same mounting holes as LGA1156 and LGA1155.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Nice info, perhaps I could get with you on my fan/rad plans in my uber system to find the right balance.


Go ahead








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> except for this bit "the H220 is superior to the RS240" martins tests showed it to perform the same


It is. Stock vs stock the H220 won








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> It's not new and this beating an RX360 be real


It isn't that simple, mate. The H220 is more or less 1ºC ahead of the RS240 Raystorm kit... which probably means that it would be 1-2ºC below the same kit with a bigger radiator. The catch? One uses a Raystorm and the other, a Rasa cpu block.



http://martinsliquidlab.org/2011/09/26/i7-2600k-cpu-xspc-raystorm/6/

Simply put: the performance difference between the Rasa and Raystorm doesn't invalidate the review posted before. Let's try not to jump too quickly to wrong conclusions, fellows. For the same reason I believe that the H100i should match the H220, simply because it has more powerful fans, but nothing else. Performance/sound the Swiftech will win hands down.

Keep in mind that if the 2700 rpm Corsair fans are any good, even on an RS240 rad, the Delta T water/air will be almost halved, which right there is a good 3-6ºC advantatge on that aspect. At the same time, though, the H100i is optimized for high-speed fans (it has an insane FPI), which means that at 1500rpm it will have a crappy performance compared to lower-fpi products such as the H220.

Its not something as easy to compare


----------



## JackieTran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Reliability would probably be okay, but the problem you're likely to have is that the block may not fit future processors, and since the pump is integrated with the block, you would essentially be left with just a radiator, fans, and tubes ... if the block becomes a relic.


Whats wrong with adding a new cpu block into the loop XD


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> Whats wrong with adding a new cpu block into the loop XD


It would actually be really cool if Swiftech, down the road, made a "backplate" that was just a solid metal backplate that had a sticky pad that would allow you to place the h220 pump/block combo anywhere in your case, so you could get a new block and than easily reuse the pump. Just an interesting thought to explore!


----------



## chronicfx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> It would actually be really cool if Swiftech, down the road, made a "backplate" that was just a solid metal backplate that had a sticky pad that would allow you to place the h220 pump/block combo anywhere in your case, so you could get a new block and than easily reuse the pump. Just an interesting thought to explore!


Hire this guy.. nice idea







You could kinda do that yourself and I think you just solved the only inherent problem with the longevity of this setup... What do you do when a better block comes along... problem solved


----------



## AdamMT

Still thinking about how I'm going to cram this bad boy into my Fractal R4. I think it may fit okay as-is, or I may need to drill a couple extra holes. I've also been thinking about mounting the fans on top of the case and was wondering if anyone knows of a cage/shroud that would mount to 140mm fan holes. If not I may end up having one made, and possibly more if others are interested.

This is a preliminary design, but I would put in a slot to insert a filter just below the fan holes:



http://www.3danvil.com/Fan%20Cage/Fan%20Cage.jpg


----------



## AdamMT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> Whats wrong with adding a new cpu block into the loop XD


Certainly possible ... you'd just have to find someplace to mount the original pump/block. You'd have that extra restriction, but not a big issue considering the powa of the pump.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> It would actually be really cool if Swiftech, down the road, made a "backplate" that was just a solid metal backplate that had a sticky pad that would allow you to place the h220 pump/block combo anywhere in your case, so you could get a new block and than easily reuse the pump. Just an interesting thought to explore!


How would you want to do this in the first place? Do you realise that you are adding restriction for nothing?









What would make sense would be to sell a casing for the pump in the case you don't need to use the block anymore... but using the block+pump combo not as a block is kinda stupid.


----------



## AdamMT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> How would you want to do this in the first place? Do you realise that you are adding restriction for nothing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would make sense would be to sell a casing for the pump in the case you don't need to use the block anymore... but using the block+pump combo not as a block is kinda stupid.


Or attach the pump to the block with some kind of compression fitting rig so it can be repurposed to other blocks....


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> How would you want to do this in the first place? Do you realise that you are adding restriction for nothing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What would make sense would be to sell a casing for the pump in the case you don't need to use the block anymore... but using the block+pump combo not as a block is kinda stupid.


I don't think the pump is exactly made to be removed from the block. If it is easily removable, obviously that would be the better option, but I have a feeling that isn't how it works. A pump is one of the most expensive parts of a loop, if I was expanding it in 2-3 years and my pump was still going strong I'd accept a little extra restriction to save that money. I've seen several people in the thread mention considering it as well, so obviously other people have the same thought.


----------



## iceman0C

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Nope. Its not something that simple. Different pwm designs will behave differently based on the pwm signal they are feeded. The simplest example you have it on the H220 itself:
> 
> 
> 
> http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/01/27/swiftech-h220-prefilled-2x120mm-water-cooling-kit/5/
> 
> You can clearly see that Swiftech intended the pump to be variable while you keep your fans at 100%, so that you make your pump a bit more silent whilst not reducing performance from lowering your fans rpm's. Kinda wise decision.
> You can't simply compare apples to oranges. For starters, the H220 is superior to the RS240.... so, improving the rad would be as easy as understanding how rads affect performance. At the end of the day rad increase decreases the Delta T more or less linearly... which means that improving rad capacity by 50% will lower your Delta T by 33%.
> 
> So, how this Delta decrease will affect cpu temperature? Each block has a certain Delta T water/core (how higher the core temperature will be over the water temperature) that varies depending on the cpu used, voltage, load, frequency, IHS, and some other variables... you add such water/core + your ambient temp + the water/air Delta T of your system and will have the improvements.
> 
> Let me put an example. Lets imagine the following:
> 
> 200W cpu
> 35ºC water/core Delta for that particular cpu and setting (its a very average number, better blocks might get better temperatures)
> 25ºC Ambient temperature
> 1550 rpm yate loons
> C/W = 0,031 (like a Swiftech MCR220, as tested by Martin)
> a) Swiftech MCR220: the cpu temperature would be: 0,031*200 + 25 + 35 = 66.2ºC
> 
> b) Swiftech MCR320: the cpu temperature would be: 0,021*200 + 25 + 35 = 64.2ºC
> 
> Keep in mind one thing: the lower you keep your fans, the bigger the difference will be. If we were to run our fans silently.... les say, at 1000rpm, the differences would be:
> 
> a) Double rad: 70ºC
> c) Triple rad: 66.6ºC
> 
> An so on.
> 
> So... yes, performance difference wouldn't be too big at all, but the bigger the rad the more silent you can keep your fans. So, unless you want the really best or you plan to put a very heavy load on your system, I wouldn't bother with a triple rad at all. Even more: you could put a gpu into the H220 provided you wouldn't expect to run both the cpu and gpu at 100% load at the same time.
> 
> People underestimate many things about watercooling...


Thanks, good info


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> I don't think the pump is exactly made to be removed from the block. If it is easily removable, obviously that would be the better option, but I have a feeling that isn't how it works. A pump is one of the most expensive parts of a loop, if I was expanding it in 2-3 years and my pump was still going strong I'd accept a little extra restriction to save that money. I've seen several people in the thread mention considering it as well, so obviously other people have the same thought.


actually the pump can be easily removed the block, we do not have a "pump housing" for it yet but we might make one down the road.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> It is. Stock vs stock the H220 won


and the fans run slower on the stock rs240 compared to the h220, And I'm sure that was a part reason given on another review so lets not go there
Same speed fans they are even and for an AIO that is a pretty good result tbh









And back on topic
Could you plug the pump into a fan controler, I have a lamptron touch 30w per channel


----------



## Pure2sin

Delete


----------



## Pure2sin

IIRC there a fan controller compatibilty list if you click on the PWM splitter information on the Swiftech site.

http://www.swiftech.com/pwmcontrollers.aspx


----------



## ez12a

i hope mine ships today!







I check on the status every few hours lol. Just sitting at order received.


----------



## Deeya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I take it that you're Christopher. Just to confirm, you just need the $10 applied to your order? If that isn't what you need please specify so that I can get you taken care of.


Nope, that would be me. Sorry for the confusion in the emails.

Unless another Christopher send you an email as well about the purchase pre-coupon code.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pure2sin*
> 
> IIRC there a fan controller compatibilty list if you click on the PWM splitter information on the Swiftech site.
> 
> http://www.swiftech.com/pwmcontrollers.aspx


that would be a no then cheers for the link


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Well, the cooling and tubing isn't available.... So now I have 2 questions, what alternative coolant and tubing to get, also how much coolant should I get for 2 H220 Loops with 1 GPU in each? One of the loops will have a 2nd 220-QP in it as well.
> 
> :|


http://www.frozencpu.com/products/13727/ex-tub-991/Danger_Den_DreamFlex_Value_Pack_-_Tubing_Clamps_Tube_Cutter_38ID_x_58OD_-_UV_Black_.html?tl=g30c99s1615
Thats the best deal I could find for 3/8 5/8 tubing, and it comes with a cutter too. They have it in clear and green as well.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> It would actually be really cool if Swiftech, down the road, made a "backplate" that was just a solid metal backplate that had a sticky pad that would allow you to place the h220 pump/block combo anywhere in your case, so you could get a new block and than easily reuse the pump. Just an interesting thought to explore!


Just got to wait for a top to eventually come out for the pump. I used to have the Apogee Drive 1, and modded it to a MCP355 with an XSPC top.
http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=328801


----------



## BrotherJoseph

My Koolance block just arrived. Anxiously waiting for the last piece of the puzzle from NCIX


----------



## AdamMT

Just got an e-mail from Swiftech; my order has SHIPPED!!

OTOH, I'm about as far away from them as possible whilst remaining in the continental US, so I won't get it until next week. Also they didn't respond to my e-mail about the $10 off coupon ... or apply the discount.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Just got an e-mail from Swiftech; my order has SHIPPED!!
> 
> OTOH, I'm about as far away from them as possible whilst remaining in the continental US, so I won't get it until next week. Also they didn't respond to my e-mail about the $10 off coupon ... or apply the discount.


Same here, I'm not all to far away from them(only in Arizona) but I won't have actually be able to build it to Friday. Interested about the coupon as well, but I sent an email and I figure they probably are swamped, so I'm waiting and figuring they'll get it sorted in the next few days.


----------



## TH3 original

Is it still worth it to get this if I only plan to cool CPU?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Same here, I'm not all to far away from them(only in Arizona) but I won't have actually be able to build it to Friday. Interested about the coupon as well, but I sent an email and I figure they probably are swamped, so I'm waiting and figuring they'll get it sorted in the next few days.


Thanks for your patience. We're working on it as fast as we can. We just want to make sure that everyone that is eligible for the discount gets it. If after a couple of days it still hasn't been applied then please PM me and I'll do what I can on my end to get it taken care of.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TH3 original*
> 
> Is it still worth it to get this if I only plan to cool CPU only?


In a word, yes.







I'm biased though.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> http://www.frozencpu.com/products/13727/ex-tub-991/Danger_Den_DreamFlex_Value_Pack_-_Tubing_Clamps_Tube_Cutter_38ID_x_58OD_-_UV_Black_.html?tl=g30c99s1615
> Thats the best deal I could find for 3/8 5/8 tubing, and it comes with a cutter too. They have it in clear and green as well.
> Just got to wait for a top to eventually come out for the pump. I used to have the Apogee Drive 1, and modded it to a MCP355 with an XSPC top.
> http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=328801


That is exactly the kit I ended up getting. If the tubing ends up being crap, I'll switch it out. Grabbed 2 because I'm not sure 10' will take care of the 2 systems I'm putting H220's on, 20' should be more than enough.


----------



## TH3 original

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> In a word, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm biased though.


Haha, I'm very tempted as this is only $30 more than the h100i


----------



## Avonosac

Hopefully both of mine ship tonight, I would love to have these things for the weekend. Looks like my EK titan block will be here right around friday as well \o/.


----------



## Scorpion667

I'm going to be adding a second rad right away, the coolant will take a little longer to ship. Can I use urine in the meantime? The acidic level should prevent algae right?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> I'm going to be adding a second rad right away, the coolant will take a little longer to ship. Can I use urine in the meantime? The acidic level should prevent algae right?


I would think that algae growth would be the least of your problems.


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TH3 original*
> 
> Haha, I'm very tempted as this is only $30 more than the h100i


how long are you planning to use the unit would be the second question. refilability is nice. has a much longer extended life-cycle if you choose to sell it off to someone else in a second market trade,. due to its refilability, and mixing of less metals than other AIO loops.


----------



## ghjjf

Is there still a chance of it shipping today?


----------



## savagepagan

It's like I said in my earlier post. Even thought retailers said that they would get the h220 in late Feb, that was retail talk meaning that by the time we got our deliveries, it would be near mid march.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghjjf*
> 
> Is there still a chance of it shipping today?


We're doing our best to ship all of the orders that have been placed, today. I'm not saying that every single one that ordered one today will be shipped today, but we are doing our best to ship them out today. We appreciate your patience.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> We're doing our best to ship all of the orders that have been placed, today. I'm not saying that every single one that ordered one over the last few days will be shipped, but we are doing our best to ship them out today. We appreciate your patience.


Point of fact. Your ass is on a computer while others are working to ship stuff..







A little pitchfork humor ^_____^


----------



## colforbin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Just got an e-mail from Swiftech; my order has SHIPPED!!
> 
> OTOH, I'm about as far away from them as possible whilst remaining in the continental US, so I won't get it until next week. Also they didn't respond to my e-mail about the $10 off coupon ... or apply the discount.


Got my ship notice and refund back to back. FYI


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Hopefully both of mine ship tonight, I would love to have these things for the weekend. Looks like my EK titan block will be here right around friday as well \o/.


Me too. I ordered a couple on Saturday, but haven't received an email about shipping yet, I was hoping to have them for the weekend. But at least I have come to appreciate how truly unattractive the stock Intel cooler is.

Since it sounds like you may be the first one of us to hook up a GPU to this, any pictures, info, advice you can provide when you do it would be much appreciated.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Me too. I ordered a couple on Saturday, but haven't received an email about shipping yet, I was hoping to have them for the weekend. But at least I have come to appreciate how truly unattractive the stock Intel cooler is.
> 
> Since it sounds like you may be the first one of us to hook up a GPU to this, any pictures, info, advice you can provide when you do it would be much appreciated.


Preach on brotha. I had a 212+ on it to play a little bit, but that covered the PCIe slot. As soon as my titan got in, you KNOW that cooler came right out









I'll make sure I get my camera out and document a little bit. I have been putting off pulling the pictures and putting the prodigy build log updates together. Looks like I should really get on that now, as the system will come together soon


----------



## M3TAl

They're finally here


----------



## M3TAl

derp. double post for some reason.


----------



## Pure2sin

I got am e-mail at 5:45PM CST that FrozenCPU now has stock of the Swiftech H220. Just an FYI


----------



## msgclb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pure2sin*
> 
> I got am e-mail at 5:45PM CST that FrozenCPU now has stock of the Swiftech H220. Just an FYI


FrozenCPU shows
*Orderable, Stock Expected 1-5 Days *

I'm still waiting to hear if Swiftech has been charged my CC but I'm a patient guy.


----------



## Pure2sin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *msgclb*
> 
> FrozenCPU shows
> *Orderable, Stock Expected 1-5 Days *
> 
> I'm still waiting to hear if Swiftech has been charged my CC but I'm a patient guy.


I missed the "orderable" part. The best part is that the e-mail title is "Stock Alert" yet there really don't have stock of them.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *savagepagan*
> 
> It's like I said in my earlier post. Even thought retailers said that they would get the h220 in late Feb, that was retail talk meaning that by the time we got our deliveries, it would be near mid march.


Except that "near mid March" only applies in this case if you're ordering 3rd party. The early purchasers from Swiftech's site could have purchased an overnight option if they wanted to, giving them the unit tomorrow the 5th, hardly near mid-month.My H220 will be here tomorrow, for example.


----------



## Pure2sin

Something is missing hmmmmmmmm?










Other than the memory. lol


----------



## CTM Audi

Waiting for this, the Fractal Arc Midi R2, and Noctua NF-S12A PWM is killing me


----------



## gsk3rd

Can we get a club going now?


----------



## KaRLiToS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gsk3rd*
> 
> Can we get a club going now?


If you plan of having one cooler, it would be great if you open a "*H220 Owner's Club*".









When is Release date?


----------



## Phelan

http://www.overclock.net/t/1367654/swiftech-h220-owners-club

tentatively started; I'll have an editor change the author of the original post to Gabe (if he wants), and I can run the list


----------



## Dudewitbow

the club should in the future include any of the variants that spawn with this pump in advance. I would think to add h320 as having it eventually separate would be kind of weird.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dudewitbow*
> 
> the club should in the future include any of the variants that spawn with this pump in advance. I would think to add h320 as having it eventually separate would be kind of weird.


This can/will be done


----------



## KaRLiToS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1367654/swiftech-h220-owners-club
> 
> tentatively started; I'll have an editor change the author of the original post to Gabe (if he wants), and I can run the list


Why? Did you created it?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaRLiToS*
> 
> Why? Did you created it?


\

Yeah just a few min ago, since no one else has. I previously created the Maximus V owners' club as well. Clubs aren't official until they have 10 members or more, so once it gets there, it'll be official


----------



## KaRLiToS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> \
> 
> Yeah just a few min ago, since no one else has. I previously created the Maximus V owners' club as well. Clubs aren't official until they have 10 members or more, so once it gets there, it'll be official


You can't do the list? Use Google chart


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaRLiToS*
> 
> You can't do the list? Use Google chart


How do I do that? Never heard of Google chart but I've seen them. How do I add it?


----------



## KaRLiToS

Do you have a google account?


----------



## M3TAl

Is the Swiftech forum down for anyone else? I'm getting SQL ERROR, Too many connections. http://forums.swiftech.org/

Was going to make an account and post on there, my Helix fan only running 1450-1500rpm... and doesn't want to work with my fan controller properly either.


----------



## pat102ko

It should be back up now, I was just on it. I was having the same issue, that is with the forums, about 10-15 mins ago.


----------



## M3TAl

Good good.


----------



## Dizz22r

Swiftech and Co. any news on the retest for the h220 by linus?


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dizz22r*
> 
> Swiftech and Co. any news on the retest for the h220 by linus?


Why bother? Just wait for something trustworthy to come with his review... AKA, Martin. Linus "only" missed a 20ºC difference as something "normal", he might miss whatever next.

Again, don't bother with bad reviewers, give your hits to the ones who truly get the job done, at least in technical stuff such as cooling that requires a ton of well done and planned work.


----------



## gsk3rd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KaRLiToS*
> 
> If you plan of having one cooler, it would be great if you open a "*H220 Owner's Club*".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When is Release date?


See this post.







:thumb:

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1367654/swiftech-h220-owners-club
> 
> tentatively started; I'll have an editor change the author of the original post to Gabe (if he wants), and I can run the list


Thank you kind sir.


----------



## WiSK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> Was going to make an account and post on there, my Helix fan only running 1450-1500rpm... and doesn't want to work with my fan controller properly either.


The fans are PWM and your fan controller isn't PWM.


----------



## DMills

woohoo, just ordered my h220 last night
cant wait to get this beast!


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Why bother? Just wait for something trustworthy to come with his review... AKA, Martin. Linus "only" missed a 20ºC difference as something "normal", he might miss whatever next.
> 
> Again, don't bother with bad reviewers, give your hits to the ones who truly get the job done, at least in technical stuff such as cooling that requires a ton of well done and planned work.


I would bother if I was them. If a "normal" thing can go wrong for a guy like Linus, than it may go wrong for a lot of end users as well. Solving his problem may help prevent costumers from making the same mistake.

In the end most people aren't Martin. We don't have the tools to test and see the results that he has. I'm sure a lot of people get a high temp due to improper installations and think the cooler is junk and leave it at that.

Swiftech can help those people by figuring out where Linus went wrong. Maybe his review won't help you, but a lot of people will watch his and no one else's review.


----------



## Phishy714

Is the 10$ off promo still going? If I remember correctly, Gabe mentioned it was good till 03/05/12 at midnight?


----------



## Julsmba

Well i really want to add a GPU Block to this loop, but i wonder if it's enough a 120 rad + the H220 rad?
And what do i need to add the gpu to the block?
I am new to Water cooling.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Julsmba*
> 
> Well i really want to add a GPU Block to this loop, but i wonder if it's enough a 120 rad + the H220 rad?
> And what do i need to add the gpu to the block?
> I am new to Water cooling.


Should be ok, one 120mm rad area a block plus one more 120mm rad area for overhead. Depends on the overclock really.


----------



## WiSK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Swiftech can help those people by figuring out where Linus went wrong. Maybe his review won't help you, but a lot of people will watch his and no one else's review.


But how many of those who watched it have any idea that there was incorrect information in it? How can Swiftech help those people after the fact? They will have ordered their H220 and 2xNoctua's now, just as Linus suggested and likely they will never know that they didn't need to buy them. If I was cynical I would say that for this "accidental" situation is exactly the reason that Noctua sends Linus free fans.


----------



## ez12a

I'll see how it performs with its stock fans when i receive mine. I have a good idea on how the h100i performed in my system and if the h220 is comparable or better then we know Linus' review is flawed.

From what I've seen in the comments on his video, they're retesting.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> I would bother if I was them. If a "normal" thing can go wrong for a guy like Linus, than it may go wrong for a lot of end users as well. Solving his problem may help prevent costumers from making the same mistake.
> 
> In the end most people aren't Martin. We don't have the tools to test and see the results that he has. I'm sure a lot of people get a high temp due to improper installations and think the cooler is junk and leave it at that.
> 
> Swiftech can help those people by figuring out where Linus went wrong. Maybe his review won't help you, but a lot of people will watch his and no one else's review.


currently being retested I think.


----------



## msgclb

I just got a pair of emails that I've been patiently waiting for.









Since I chose to have my package sent by pony express it's hard to tell when it will arrive.


----------



## ez12a

^Ditto, just got my emails, but i live in OC so i hope to get mine by thursday!







cant wait!

i'll get right to work on making some videos of a 600t installation.

And i didnt forget doing that test fitting in my old 922, whoever asked. I have my old board mounted inside it waiting for a quick fitting.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> I'll see how it performs with its stock fans when i receive mine. I have a good idea on how the h100i performed in my system and if the h220 is comparable or better then we know Linus' review is flawed.
> 
> From what I've seen in the comments on his video, they're retesting.


Linus review is flawed, there is no denying that. Its simply not possible to get 20ºC difference, PERIOD. Either way, its his fault for publishing non-consistent and ilogical data.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> I would bother if I was them. If a "normal" thing can go wrong for a guy like Linus, than it may go wrong for a lot of end users as well. Solving his problem may help prevent costumers from making the same mistake.
> 
> In the end most people aren't Martin. We don't have the tools to test and see the results that he has. I'm sure a lot of people get a high temp due to improper installations and think the cooler is junk and leave it at that.
> 
> Swiftech can help those people by figuring out where Linus went wrong. Maybe his review won't help you, but a lot of people will watch his and no one else's review.


The unit tested by Linus was defective or he has no idea how to test things consistently or anything similar. The damage is already done, there is no fixing that, and its that simple. Do you truly thing that If a normal user had the H100i and the H220 and got a 15ºC difference he would accept those results as "normal"? Let alone publish them as some data that accurately reflect the performance of a product? I'm sure the lesson learned by Swiftech here is... do not hand products to people that do not know how to handle them and, thus, they won't screw up your brand image. Right now, Swiftech not only didn't get any good PR, they got bad one. Guess how hard the bad image is hard to erase.... because its VERY, specially when people were waiting results after the CES... and got disappointed when their trusted review wouldn't show the desired results...

And no, the mounting system Swiftech uses is "fool-proof" as is the easiest in the industry to set up with consistent results. I don't think its that hard to screw a few things here and there and not skew results but, apparently, it is hard since some reviewers have screwed their results.

Or... wait a minute... were they REAL reviewers? The problem we have today is that everybody considers himself a reviewer. If somebody offered me a PSU to test I'd decline, since I lack the equipment or the knowledge to do it... and the same for cooling related devices. On the other hand, nobody (most, at least) press-related in this industry cares to do proper reviews using normal testing methods that are standard in any field in which you plan to obtain data to be compared with something... specially when other people's brands are at stake. The guy at OC3D stated that he wouldn't want to spend a ton of time because he had other things to do... would you trust the data of somebody that doesn't even dedicate enough time to do something? I don't, and neither should you.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo Zuko*
> 
> Should be ok, one 120mm rad area a block plus one more 120mm rad area for overhead. Depends on the overclock really.


I've never understood this sort of logic, really. It depends on what you want to cool and not on the amount of heat you plan to dissipate (to an extent). A double rad could be used to dissipate 2 x high-end gpu cards (500-600W) withouth a hassle, and you would be getting very good temperatures. On the other hand, the same radiator might struggle with 200w cpu's...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiSK*
> 
> But how many of those who watched it have any idea that there was incorrect information in it? How can Swiftech help those people after the fact? They will have ordered their H220 and 2xNoctua's now, just as Linus suggested and likely they will never know that they didn't need to buy them. If I was cynical I would say that for this "accidental" situation is exactly the reason that Noctua sends Linus free fans.


Noctua's.... never understood why they are so frigging expensive, specially when they look TERRIBLE. Give me some nidec GT's and call it a day, please...


----------



## msgclb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> ..
> And i didnt forget doing that test fitting in my old 922, whoever asked. I have my old board mounted inside it waiting for a quick fitting.


I'm going to install mine in an old 922.

I'll first install it in the center position, take a couple of photos, then install it about 1 inch toward the front where I've drilled a couple of new holes.

I know you're asking how are you going to keep those fan screws from slipping threw the honey comb grill on top?

That answer will have to wait until you see my pictures.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *msgclb*
> 
> I know you're asking how are you going to keep those fan screws from slipping threw the honey comb grill on top?
> That answer will have to wait until you see my pictures.


nah, i'm sure it's doable. I would imagine either a screw with a larger head or a screw in conjunction with washers.


----------



## navit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> ^Ditto, just got my emails, but i live in OC so i hope to get mine by thursday!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cant wait!
> 
> i'll get right to work on making some videos of a 600t installation.
> 
> And i didnt forget doing that test fitting in my old 922, whoever asked. I have my old board mounted inside it waiting for a quick fitting.


I am interested in seeing that as I have a 600t as well. What mobo are you using?


----------



## spikexp

Ncix canada should have them in 2 week http://forums.ncix.com/forums/?mode=showthread&forum=219&threadid=2594959&pagenumber=1&msgcount=4&subpage=1&product_id=79583

Getting quite far from end of February...


----------



## MadGoat

I just received my "shipped" email! thank you swiftech! Looking forward to getting this installed and pumping my clock up!


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *navit*
> 
> I am interested in seeing that as I have a 600t as well. What mobo are you using?


my sig rig's mobo. When I had my h100i i wasnt able to leave the fans mounted on the rad, which was also confirmed with the test fitting swiftech has performed also. Fans will need to go on the outside unfortunately.

i should have the video up after a day or three after receiving the h220. I'll let you know!


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spikexp*
> 
> Ncix canada should have them in 2 week http://forums.ncix.com/forums/?mode=showthread&forum=219&threadid=2594959&pagenumber=1&msgcount=4&subpage=1&product_id=79583
> 
> Getting quite far from end of February...


Europe got them before the end of February, if you are in the US you could have already ordered, and be getting it today if you wanted to pay for overnight shipping. You might be able to order directly from Swiftech, if you want to pay the extra shipping and possible customs fees. They are out man, maybe not from your retailer of choice...but it's released.


----------



## Avonosac

Come on ST! I ordered two on Saturday, where is my email!?!?


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Or... wait a minute... were they REAL reviewers?


This. They are nothing more than entertainers that don't give a piss if they tarnish a company's products through their inept "review" methodology and reporting. It is unfortunate they have such large audiences of uniformed unquestioning blithering idiots.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> This. They are nothing more than entertainers that don't give a piss if they tarnish a company's products through their inept "review" methodology and reporting. It is unfortunate they have such large audiences of uniformed unquestioning blithering idiots.


They use social media, where most people will first look who are going to learn this stuff first hand. Look at this thread, how many people came in from YT first? How many people want a video, and would likely search for the video, before every attempting to go to a forum to seek the knowledge themselves?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> They use social media, where most people will first look who are going to learn this stuff first hand. Look at this thread, how many people came in from YT first? How many people want a video, and would likely search for the video, before every attempting to go to a forum to seek the knowledge themselves?


I always wonder that, just what the split of people is nowadays. Personally I almost always seek out written text and reviews before a video. I can read a review or tutorial much faster, and hit key points of it quicker if I want to go back almost instantly. Video's generally annoy the crap out of me, unless exceptionally well done, which very few video's are. So because I personally seek out written material first, and go to forums and try to find information before asking, it always surprises me how many people actually watch video's to find information.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Martins Liquid Lab is the only good review I have seen, which really shows what the H220 will do. He has the H100i and will compare to show people that if you screw up, you will look bad and untrusted.


----------



## BrotherJoseph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spikexp*
> 
> Ncix canada should have them in 2 week http://forums.ncix.com/forums/?mode=showthread&forum=219&threadid=2594959&pagenumber=1&msgcount=4&subpage=1&product_id=79583
> 
> Getting quite far from end of February...


Long ways off of what was expected.
Dang... I'm not willing to pay over $50 for shipping from Swiftech, guess I have to wait some more :-\


----------



## Neo Zuko

Still waiting for my Sun ordered H220 to ship... :-(


----------



## naelus

Is there any word on if it will support haswell/socket 1150, would love to pick one up soon, and I'll still be on FM1 until Haswell releases (couldn't come sooner), and I just don't want to buy an h220 and have it sit there if 1150 uses a different mounting bracket, and if it is different, would Swiftech be releasing a different bracket to make it compatible?


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiSK*
> 
> The fans are PWM and your fan controller isn't PWM.


No, I got the non PWM one which actually doesn't matter because all 8 of my Cougar Vortex are PWM and running off fan controller. And after further testing one of the fans is defective. Hard to explain so I made a video.


----------



## Pure2sin

Mine shipped! Ordered on Sunday


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naelus*
> 
> Is there any word on if it will support haswell/socket 1150, would love to pick one up soon, and I'll still be on FM1 until Haswell releases (couldn't come sooner), and I just don't want to buy an h220 and have it sit there if 1150 uses a different mounting bracket, and if it is different, would Swiftech be releasing a different bracket to make it compatible?


far as i am aware any cooler that fits socket 1155/1156 will fit haswell


----------



## farlopa

stephenm
I'm planing to buy lamptron cw611 water cooling fan to manage the pump and fans of h220.
Could you tell me if lamptron cw611 is compatible?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *naelus*
> 
> Is there any word on if it will support haswell/socket 1150, would love to pick one up soon, and I'll still be on FM1 until Haswell releases (couldn't come sooner), and I just don't want to buy an h220 and have it sit there if 1150 uses a different mounting bracket, and if it is different, would Swiftech be releasing a different bracket to make it compatible?


No final word on this yet but LGA1150 should use the same mounting holes as LGA1155 - so there shouldn't be any problem.
I can't speak for other companies but what we typically do is, whenever a new (mechanically different) socket is release we design and release updated mounting mechanism retro compatible to CPU blocks up to 1 or 2 generations back.
So no worries there

Re: everyone awaiting shipments:
we are still processing orders placed over the week-end, please be patient. if by mistake your coupon wasn't processed feel free to PM me or email so that we get this sorted out.

Thanks


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farlopa*
> 
> stephenm
> I'm planing to buy lamptron cw611 water cooling fan to manage the pump and fans of h220.
> Could you tell me if lamptron cw611 is compatible?


as far as I can see here: http://www.lamptron.com/2013/02/05/introducing-the-lamptron-cw611/
it only has 3-pin channels, so it either uses voltage regulation and PWM modulation of the 12V pin/line.
Neither of these regulation methods are recommended for true PWM devices (this is true for our pump and our fans).

We have a list of compatible fan controllers on our H220 webpage (actually it may be a white paper).


----------



## naelus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> No final word on this yet but LGA1150 should use the same mounting holes as LGA1155 - so there shouldn't be any problem.
> I can't speak for other companies but what we typically do is, whenever a new (mechanically different) socket is release we design and release updated mounting mechanism retro compatible to CPU blocks up to 1 or 2 generations back.
> So no worries there
> 
> Re: everyone awaiting shipments:
> we are still processing orders placed over the week-end, please be patient. if by mistake your coupon wasn't processed feel free to PM me or email so that we get this sorted out.
> 
> Thanks


On next payday I might have to buy one


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

A New review from Chispy from xtreme systems is out against the Thermaltake Water Extreme 2.0.
He also tested with a universal GPU block with the H220. Both OC and temps look fantastic.
Granted test was done in open bench, but still good. Couple of videos in there too.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?285238-Swiftech-H220-Complete-Review-Part-1-of-2&p=5174477


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> A New review from Chispy from xtreme systems is out against the Thermaltake Water Extreme 2.0.
> He also tested with a universal GPU block with the H220. Both OC and temps look fantastic.
> Granted test was done in open bench, but still good. Couple of videos in there too.
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?285238-Swiftech-H220-Complete-Review-Part-1-of-2&p=5174477


too bad it's a damn ******ed review, tested out in the open, not even a test bench, not sure why these kind of people still review.


----------



## M3TAl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Why bother? Just wait for something trustworthy to come with his review... AKA, Martin. Linus "only" missed a 20ºC difference as something "normal", he might miss whatever next.
> 
> Again, don't bother with bad reviewers, give your hits to the ones who truly get the job done, at least in technical stuff such as cooling that requires a ton of well done and planned work.


You're forgetting something important. Obviously something was very wrong. Now was there a problem/defect with the H220 causing a 20C difference? Can this problem/defect happen to a normal user? Can this problem/defect be easily fixed by the user? These are important things to know.


----------



## Phelan

It's here!


----------



## M3TAl

That's some serious carpet


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3TAl*
> 
> That's some serious carpet


Yeah it's too hot so I had to keep it cool!


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> A New review from Chispy from xtreme systems is out against the Thermaltake Water Extreme 2.0.
> He also tested with a universal GPU block with the H220. Both OC and temps look fantastic.
> Granted test was done in open bench, but still good. Couple of videos in there too.
> http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?285238-Swiftech-H220-Complete-Review-Part-1-of-2&p=5174477
> 
> 
> 
> too bad it's a damn ******ed review, tested out in the open, not even a test bench, not sure why these kind of people still review.
Click to expand...

It is a good review. Not sure what you want more, it is just a personal review. Customer really.
Open/test bench is exactly the same thing. If you do not like it, dont read it.

It would be the same if I did a open test review.


----------



## Emu105

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> It's here!


Oh please let us know what temps you getting!


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Emu105*
> 
> Oh please let us know what temps you getting!


I will once I get my rig running







. It'll be a little while though; I have to redo some soldering on my 7970


----------



## ez12a

est. delivery for me is TOMORROW







I'm going to be installing the thing the moment i get back from work.

but not before I play with it at work (where it's being delivered).

edit: i see swiftech's site lists them as OOS. Looks like they sold like hot cakes!


----------



## navit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> edit: i see swiftech's site lists them as OOS. Looks like they sold like hot cakes!


Yea buddy


----------



## circeseye

dammit there better be 2 of them for me later this month or im going to go postal


----------



## Neo Zuko

I have mine, will sell for $200!!! JK. Naaaa I need it


----------



## Aestylis

Now that I have my H220 shipping to me I was thinking about picking up a MCW82 block for my Asus HD7850-DC2-2GD5 . Could anyone chime in on compatibility?. I was unable to find anything out there.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> too bad it's a damn ******ed review, tested out in the open, not even a test bench, not sure why these kind of people still review.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> Exactly, open/test bench is the same thing, ******ed, no one is going to run this in their system as such, I didn't read it, just saw the parameters.


Not sure why are even allowed to post opinions being as rude as you are but... oh well, here you are.

---

The funny thing is that people don't even care about reviews nor go through them. There is something that I don't understand from *chispy*'s review, which is as follows: how does he get lower temperatures when running the VGA on the loop? If you look carefully, he claims to have his cpu at almost 80ºC (stock H220), but the temperature is 10ºC lower when he is running the loop with the card in it. So, either the liquid Swiftech uses is terrible (impossible, have never seen a liquid get such improvements), the system had air (difference seems plausible) or something else.

Either way, I asked at XS to the OP to see if he can clarify the results in some ways...


----------



## gsk3rd

Are all orders able to be filled? If not whats the time table to get another shipment in?


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Not sure why you are even allowed to post opinions being as rude as you are but... oh well, here you are.


This.


----------



## DMills

I ordered mine on Monday, so hopefully my order got in before they went OOS?

I've got order confirmation email, but no shipping or tracking emails, *crosses fingers*


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMills*
> 
> I ordered mine on Monday, so hopefully my order got in before they went OOS?
> 
> I've got order confirmation email, but no shipping or tracking emails, *crosses fingers*


You're good to go. They are doing first come first served, but they knew how many they had, for OOS on the site.


----------



## DMills

Did anyone get tracking info or shipment confirmation, or are they judging shipment speeds/times by a best guess?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMills*
> 
> Did anyone get tracking info or shipment confirmation, or are they judging shipment speeds/times by a best guess?


I got tracking info, you should be getting it the day they ship it.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Looks like mine will be here mon.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMills*
> 
> Did anyone get tracking info or shipment confirmation, or are they judging shipment speeds/times by a best guess?


took them a full 24 to process my Saturday order and didnt ship till Tuesday. I received a tracking email on tues. Since i'm so close though, it's coming within the next 3 hours.


----------



## DMills

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> took them a full 24 to process my Saturday order and didnt ship till Tuesday. I received a tracking email on tues. Since i'm so close though, it's coming within the next 3 hours.


It says payment completed in paypal, i ordered monday evening. order #3964
they're probably just backed up beyond belief which i can understand








i guess im just really excited and impatient


----------



## gsk3rd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMills*
> 
> It says payment completed in paypal, i ordered monday evening. order #3964
> they're probably just backed up beyond belief which i can understand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i guess im just really excited and impatient


you wait in line. order #3961.


----------



## NV43

I'm debating picking one of these up for my Phantom 410. I've seen mixed things about it fitting or not. I know it will fit up front, if the hard drive cage at the bottom is removed, but then I have no place for my drives.









For this reason, I'd be placing it at the top. Do you think it would fit?


----------



## twitchyzero

come out on Newegg soon please...


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NV43*
> 
> I'm debating picking one of these up for my Phantom 410. I've seen mixed things about it fitting or not. I know it will fit up front, if the hard drive cage at the bottom is removed, but then I have no place for my drives.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For this reason, I'd be placing it at the top. Do you think it would fit?


Should fit nicely


----------



## navit

I second that.


----------



## navit

I second that. Any news on That front?


----------



## navit

I second that. Any news on That front?
Stupid phone, triple post sorry guys


----------



## justanoldman

According to the Swiftech website they have an ETA of March 11 for Frozen, Performance, Sidewinder, NCIX, and Jab-tech. Newegg is still listed as unknown for the date so far and Micro Center is April 1.


----------



## undermined

I was wondering if anyone knows if the h220 AIO might block the some ram slots on a p8z68 v-pro?

It seems like the inlet/outlets might be too close to the first slot, and I populate all 4 slots since I run 4x4GB sticks so is it possible the clearance is enough or can I mount it with the inlet/outlets pointing vertical versus horizontal?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *undermined*
> 
> I was wondering if anyone knows if the h220 AIO might block the some ram slots on a p8z68 v-pro?
> 
> It seems like the inlet/outlets might be too close to the first slot, and I populate all 4 slots since I run 4x4GB sticks so is it possible the clearance is enough or can I mount it with the inlet/outlets pointing vertical versus horizontal?


I ran an Apogee Drive II, which is simlar size but has a larger fitting, on an Asus Maximus V Gene without problems on 2 different sets of RAM (Crucial Tracers and Avexir CORE), if that helps as a reference point.


----------



## SDBolts619

My order (3857) shipped Tuesday. Sadly, it looks like USPS can't manage to get it from Long Beach to San Diego in one day so I might not have it until tomorrow...


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *undermined*
> 
> I was wondering if anyone knows if the h220 AIO might block the some ram slots on a p8z68 v-pro?
> 
> It seems like the inlet/outlets might be too close to the first slot, and I populate all 4 slots since I run 4x4GB sticks so is it possible the clearance is enough or can I mount it with the inlet/outlets pointing vertical versus horizontal?


really just depends on where your case places the radiator.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *undermined*
> 
> I was wondering if anyone knows if the h220 AIO might block the some ram slots on a p8z68 v-pro?
> 
> It seems like the inlet/outlets might be too close to the first slot, and I populate all 4 slots since I run 4x4GB sticks so is it possible the clearance is enough or can I mount it with the inlet/outlets pointing vertical versus horizontal?


This is one of the reasons we designed the H220 to use 3/8 x 5/8 tubing. We've currently tested this kit on several motherboards and we have yet to encounter any issues with ram clearance.

However, if you do encounter an issue your solution for mounting the block with the inlet and outlet on the top and bottom won't be an issue.


----------



## DMills

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gsk3rd*
> 
> you wait in line. order #3961.


no fair you line cutter!

all orders before #3964 are null and void


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMills*
> 
> no fair you line cutter!
> 
> all orders before #3964 are null and void


You don't want me to cancel all orders after 3963 do you? JK!


----------



## Avonosac

Sweetness!

10$ refund for the 2nd H220, and shipping came through at the same time! Can't wait to unbox this guy, and put up a review for anyone who still hasn't pulled the trigger!


----------



## DMills

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> You don't want me to cancel all orders after 3963 do you? JK!


the world would end abruptly lol


----------



## glakr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Yes I already received the 600T, I can already tell you it fits but I'll make a mockup with a sabertooth just to be sure.


Did you ever test this with the sabertooth? I have a Define R4 which looks like it is good to go but still questionable on the sabertooth. Tried to read through all the thread. anybody else do this with Z77 sabertooth?

I want to pre-order before the first batch is all gone. HELP!


----------



## ez12a

Thank you, Swiftech (BRAMSL1, stephen):


+ other goodies for work and personal use









edit: + Gabe


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> Thank you, Swiftech (BRAMSL1, stephen):
> 
> 
> + other goodies for work and personal use


Hey, you left out Gabe. What's up with that? He's only the CEO of the company. Take some pics though once you get installed. Hope you enjoy it.


----------



## undermined

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> I ran an Apogee Drive II, which is simlar size but has a larger fitting, on an Asus Maximus V Gene without problems on 2 different sets of RAM (Crucial Tracers and Avexir CORE), if that helps as a reference point.


Yeah that actually helps quite a lot since the layout on the two boards are almost identical and I was able to find a few pictures to affirm that it should be just fine.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> really just depends on where your case places the radiator.


I'm running a Fractal Design Arc Midi that I'm planing to mount the h220 AIO in taking advantage of the awesome offset mounting option in the roof and the tubing should be ok length if ti fits so many other cases without issue.

On a side note, now that the Arc Midi r2 has a much improved front fan option, it is on my shortlist if I upgrade to a dual radiator setup in the future but I'm waiting on Haswell info and possible IvyBridge-e news and I'm finally looking to push my 2600K off stock clocks now that it isn't a production system and can be used just for gaming
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> This is one of the reasons we designed the H220 to use 3/8 x 5/8 tubing. We've currently tested this kit on several motherboards and we have yet to encounter any issues with ram clearance.
> 
> However, if you do encounter an issue your solution for mounting the block with the inlet and outlet on the top and bottom won't be an issue.


This is also great to know since I wasn't sure if the mount worked in either direction just looking on the images on the h220 AIO page.

Thank you so much for the quick reply's all.


----------



## Dizz22r

BRAM were is my H320!!!!You guys said if h220 sells good h320 is on its way







OOS for the h220 i think that is a good sign!


----------



## Phelan

I already modded my H220







. Anybody know what I did? (Hint: You won't guess it. jk)


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> I already modded my H220
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Anybody know what I did? (Hint: You won't guess it. jk)]


You rotated the top plate 180°


----------



## stephenm

You used the APD2 screws.
Ok, ok... it was easy for me


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> You rotated the top plate 180°


Nope (although that can be done, this is the original, logo correct location of the top plate).


----------



## DMills

ZOMG tracking








i need a bowl for the dripping of my mouth


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> You rotated the top plate 180°


he didn't - I think he received it that way - noticed it from his very first picture. Whoever had it before must have installed it back upside down - it's a 2nd hand, right?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> You used the APD2 screws.
> Ok, ok... it was easy for me


Well played, Stephen. I'm watching you...


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Well played, Stephen. I'm watching you...


what do I win?
(and don't say a H220) haha


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> he didn't - I think he received it that way - noticed it from his very first picture. 2nd hand, right?


Yeah I traded a reviewer for it to help us both out, since he had two and wanted to do a head-to-head.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> what do I win?
> (and don't say a H220) haha


----------



## gsk3rd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DMills*
> 
> ZOMG tracking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i need a bowl for the dripping of my mouth


Talk about your line cutter!

*edit* Just received my tracking as well!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Phelan

Push/pull!


Still have 4 more Helix fans. I just need 3 more and my MCR320 to arrive and my loop will be set! (Oh and a couple fittings)


----------



## guinner16

Mine is coming on monday. I got my "red" PrimoChill tubing, and of course it is as orange as can be. I think I am going to stick with the stock black tubing for now, and just cut them to fit my set up better. Is there an estimate on videos for cutting/replacing tubes, and bleeding the system. Below is a pic of the tubing that Primochill calls "Bloodshed Red".


----------



## [email protected]

Hello Guys

HydrX PM-2 has been released. (this is the coolant used with the H220)



We are still waiting for our black, and our white tubing.

@ Guinner16: We are working on the maintenance and expansion (with VGA) video. should be done tomorrow.


----------



## Neo Zuko

My build log is up, I will be using the H220 in it.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1368349/the-avatar-state-sm8/0_20


----------



## DMills

Yup Monday 11th for me too. The UPS guy is way cooler than Santa, _useful_ presents all times of the year









time to start cutting up my case


----------



## ez12a

Got mine installed in my 600t. My first paste job wasnt as nice as I wanted it to be, but I mounted it anyway seeing that I could always redo it in the future. Prime95ing it now.

In the meantime here are pictures of it installed in the 922 in stock form (fans attached to rad, both inside the case):







In my 600t


With this first mounting with less than ideal paste application, it's about on par with the h100i in terms of performance. I'll remount it again in the future. I have the pump running "maxed out" through speedfan at ~2960 rpm, with GT Ap-15s in push config.


----------



## zinfinion

LOL. He used Noctua low voltage adapters on the Swiftech fans and it reduced RPM from 1800RPM to 600RPM. This is why you use the product as designed with what is in the kit and don't install it willy nilly because you think you are smarter than the people who designed it.


----------



## TH3 original

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> Got mine installed in my 600t. My first paste job wasnt as nice as I wanted it to be, but I mounted it anyway seeing that I could always redo it in the future. Prime95ing it now.
> 
> In the meantime here are pictures of it installed in the 922 in stock form (fans attached to rad, both inside the case
> 
> In my 600t
> 
> With this first mounting with less than ideal paste application, it's about on par with the h100i in terms of performance. I'll remount it again in the future. I have the pump running "maxed out" through speedfan at ~2960 rpm, with GT Ap-15s in push config.


Hey, I am thinking about getting a h220 as well, but i am worried it will not fit in my 550D + Asus P8p67 pro. Your board has the same layout on top as mine, could you do me a HUGE favor and tell me the distance between the top of your case to the 8-pin power plug on the motherboard?

I measured my distance, and from the metal, it seems to be 2.00-2.15 inch from top to beginning on 8pin plug.

Thanks!


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TH3 original*
> 
> Hey, I am thinking about getting a h220 as well, but i am worried it will not fit in my 550D + Asus P8p67 pro. Your board has the same layout on top as mine, could you do me a HUGE favor and tell me the distance between the top of your case to the 8-pin power plug on the motherboard?
> 
> I measured my distance, and from the metal, it seems to be 2.00-2.15 inch from top to beginning on 8pin plug.
> 
> Thanks!


I will try to get that to you







Note, for our case layout and motherboard you will have to mount the radiator at the top with the tubes coming out towards the rear. the uppermost block of USB ports at the top will interfere with the reservoir.

Well I just remounted the block/pump and found that the VRM heatsinks on the side and top will interfere with the swivel barbs, which led to a bad mount (the left side was lifted slightly, paste wasnt spread on the left side of the CPU). The left barb (pump oriented upright) was gouged slightly from the VRM. The right barb was also touching the RAM, but only slightly (no real pressure).

like this:


Also note, that I believe you can only flip the top decorative plate 180. You cant flip it 90 deg.

Unfortunately for us P8Z68 owners we have to mount the block sideways with the barbs on the "front" side of the case, lest you grind down the vrm sinks which i'm unwilling to do. I'm re-running p95 now and will report back.

Tip for installation: the tubes kind of go wild when trying to center the pump while mounting. I used a velcro tie to keep them together and from swinging all over the place. A gripe I suppose I could agree with from Tom Logan. Do I mind? Not at all. I think right it looks like some kind of logo tbh.

edit: i'm only 15 minutes in to prime95 but i can tell you remounting it SIGNIFICANTLY reduced the temps. I'm seeing 60C max within the first 15 min or so. Will keep you guys posted.


----------



## bencher

I qouted myself below. very upset and disappointed....

I took my friend's advice and bought a h100i..... It does not fit in my haf 922. Could it be the screw holes on my case are misplaced? Or the cooler?

Will this swiftech h220 fit?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> i bought a h100i today and tried fitting it in my haf 922.
> 
> Was really disappointed and upset.
> 
> IT DOES NOT FIT....
> 
> The first 4 screw holes line up, but the second 4 are way off.
> 
> Did anyone experience this?


----------



## Pure2sin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. He used Noctua low voltage adapters on the Swiftech fans and it reduced RPM from 1800RPM to 600RPM. This is why you use the product as designed with what is in the kit and don't install it willy nilly because you think you are smarter than the people who designed it.


People make mistakes. I have respect for the fact they are going to retest everything and make sure they get it right.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> I qouted myself below. very upset and disappointed....
> 
> I took my friend's advice and bought a h100i..... It does not fit in my haf 922. Could it be the screw holes on my case are misplaced? Or the cooler?
> 
> Will this swiftech h220 fit?


See my pictures. It does fit, when mounting the whole assembly (fans pushing in), fans and all to the case.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> See my pictures. It does fit, when mounting the whole assembly, fans and all to the case.


I want to know if my case has a manufacture defect.

Did a h100i fit in your case with all 8 screws in?


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pure2sin*
> 
> People make mistakes. I have respect for the fact they are going to retest everything and make sure they get it right.


The SimCity shenanigans probably have me more off kilter than usual.







I applaud that he is willing to take responsibility and retest thoroughly. Though if he had taken the time to contact Swiftech before he put up the 20C difference review, he wouldn't have had this issue to begin with. Instead he went ahead with his bizarre results and Swiftech had to contact him instead. The reality is that the first video review out the door gets the most ad views on YouTube, so integrity tends to get thrown under the bus.

TotalBiscuit was talking about this with regards to the SimCity video reviews. His was 90 minutes long, so Rev3 got theirs out first, hurting his profits. Additionally, the video reviewers had early access and none of their reviews factor in the server problems of the past two days, so the reviews are completely unbased in the reality that the consumer is experiencing.

This also explains Tiny Tom Logan not dedicating enough time and testing to his reviews. The more time he spends reviewing, the less reviews he posts, the less money he gets, therefore he just slapdashes them and reels in the dollars. As long as he's getting paid, he doesn't care if the reviews are quality or not.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> I want to know if my case has a manufacture defect.
> 
> Did a h100i fit in your case with all 8 screws in?


I did not try the h100i in my 922, unfortunately. It does fit all 8 screws in my 600t (expected, as they're both corsair products).

to clarify with the 922 fitment with the h220, i put 2 screws in only, one on both ends of the radiator/fans and they lined up perfectly. I'm pretty sure all the other holes in between lined up as well. My intention was to take pictures of inside clearance.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pure2sin*
> 
> People make mistakes. I have respect for the fact they are going to retest everything and make sure they get it right.


Agreed. It's a silly mistake to make, but it will lead to much better results in the end. It is interesting that the swiftech fans respond so drastically to the undervoltage, and is useful to know.


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TH3 original*
> 
> Hey, I am thinking about getting a h220 as well, but i am worried it will not fit in my 550D + Asus P8p67 pro. Your board has the same layout on top as mine, could you do me a HUGE favor and tell me the distance between the top of your case to the 8-pin power plug on the motherboard?
> 
> I measured my distance, and from the metal, it seems to be 2.00-2.15 inch from top to beginning on 8pin plug.
> 
> Thanks!


Dont know if this helps, but when I had the 550, I measured from the rubber gromet on the top screw hole, to the top of the motherboard PCB, and got just about 50mm. If you measure how far the 8pin is to the edge of the PCB, that should give you an idea.

Right angle low profile 8pin connectors really need to be made by someone. 24pin ones would be nice too.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> I did not try the h100i in my 922, unfortunately. It does fit all 8 screws in my 600t (expected, as they're both corsair products).
> 
> to clarify with the 922 fitment with the h220, i put 2 screws in only, one on both ends of the radiator/fans and they lined up perfectly. I'm pretty sure all the other holes in between lined up as well. My intention was to take pictures of inside clearance.


I can't screw in both. I can only scree in one end. the other end does not line up.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> I can't screw in both. I can only scree in one end. the other end does not line up.


Get a straight edge like a ruler and put it next to your h100i's radiator. Is it straight? there was one person on Corsair forums with a crooked radiator (rhomboid).

Better than a ruler, get something with a definitive 90 degree angle, and align the fan holes with the side of the radiator.

edit: said corsair thread: http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=115297

short of user error this is the only thing i can think of that could be causing your issue.

edit: half hour in and i have not broken 68C on my hottest core with p95 blend. this is great!







i would say about a 3 C improvement over the h100i at least.

question to swiftech: I found the extended screws to mount the fans on the 600t were too short. Did you guys remove the rubber isolating grommets in order to make it fit? I had to use my H50's screws that were long enough to mount the h220 to the 600t.

I'll be editing and uploading my video to the tubes soon, along with all of the caveats of the install.


----------



## TH3 original

Thanks for the info ez12a! +rep

Here are pic comparisons of 600t and 550d's top part. I think the distance is about the same from the pictures. (note that 550d's top panel's fan locations are actually indented upwards)

600T: http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTMzNTY1NzE2MExWUWVJUUZROHJfNF8xOF9sLmpwZw==

550D: http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTM0NDMwODEzN3U4Uml0Yk8zaG1fNF80X2wuanBn

But I am now worried about CTM Audi's comment that he only measured 50mm (1.97 inches, which is very close to what I measured, yet makes or breaks the fit of the h220 : / ).

Doc on h220: http://www.swiftech.org/images/h220-rad-dimensions.JPG

However, there is a decent amount of space horizontally between the 120mm mount and the 8-pin power plug.

What do you think?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> Dont know if this helps, but when I had the 550, I measured from the rubber gromet on the top screw hole, to the top of the motherboard PCB, and got just about 50mm. If you measure how far the 8pin is to the edge of the PCB, that should give you an idea.
> 
> Right angle low profile 8pin connectors really need to be made by someone. 24pin ones would be nice too.










I like the idea of right angle 8 pin and 24 pin connectors...Really like the idea. Some quick Googling shows that a lack of premade wires that do it. Might have to custom make myself some connectors, because a 90 degree angle on the 8 pin would make life so much easier. They also look nicer, imo.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TH3 original*
> 
> Thanks for the info ez12a! +rep
> 
> Here are pic comparisons of 600t and 550d's top part. I think the distance is about the same from the pictures. (note that 550d's top panel's fan locations are actually indented upwards)
> 
> 600T: http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTMzNTY1NzE2MExWUWVJUUZROHJfNF8xOF9sLmpwZw==
> 
> 550D: http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTM0NDMwODEzN3U4Uml0Yk8zaG1fNF80X2wuanBn
> 
> But I am now worried about CTM Audi's comment that he only measured 50mm (1.97 inches, which is very close to what I measured, yet makes or breaks the fit of the h220 : / ).
> 
> Doc on h220: http://www.swiftech.org/images/h220-rad-dimensions.JPG
> 
> However, there is a decent amount of space horizontally between the 120mm mount and the 8-pin power plug.
> 
> What do you think?


there's not a lot of space, i'd guesstimate about a mm. It's really slim and you definitely cant do push/pull without modification.

edit: took another look, the top of the 8 pin clip is barely touching the rad, so there's really not a lot of clearance. Best I can say is look to see if people fit a h100 or h100i into the same case and if they can and have just enough room, you should hopefully be ok.

an update after an hour of prime 95:


this thing is not getting hotter than 68C.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> Get a straight edge like a ruler and put it next to your h100i's radiator. Is it straight? there was one person on Corsair forums with a crooked radiator (rhomboid).
> 
> Better than a ruler, get something with a definitive 90 degree angle, and align the fan holes with the side of the radiator.
> 
> edit: said corsair thread: http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=115297
> 
> short of user error this is the only thing i can think of that could be causing your issue.
> 
> edit: half hour in and i have not broken 68C on my hottest core with p95 blend. this is great!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i would say about a 3 C improvement over the h100i at least.
> 
> question to swiftech: I found the extended screws to mount the fans on the 600t were too short. Did you guys remove the rubber isolating grommets in order to make it fit? I had to use my H50's screws that were long enough to mount the h220 to the 600t.
> 
> I'll be editing and uploading my video to the tubes soon, along with all of the caveats of the install.


I don't have a ruler, but I tried screw fans on both sides of the cooler and they fit. Tried screen 2 fans in the top of my case and they fit.

I am so confused









It seems the h100i is too short.


----------



## Dhalmel

Time to finally retire my huge silver arrow?


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TH3 original*
> 
> Thanks for the info ez12a! +rep
> 
> Here are pic comparisons of 600t and 550d's top part. I think the distance is about the same from the pictures. (note that 550d's top panel's fan locations are actually indented upwards)
> 
> 600T: http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTMzNTY1NzE2MExWUWVJUUZROHJfNF8xOF9sLmpwZw==
> 
> 550D: http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTM0NDMwODEzN3U4Uml0Yk8zaG1fNF80X2wuanBn
> 
> But I am now worried about CTM Audi's comment that he only measured 50mm (1.97 inches, which is very close to what I measured, yet makes or breaks the fit of the h220 : / ).
> 
> Doc on h220: http://www.swiftech.org/images/h220-rad-dimensions.JPG
> 
> However, there is a decent amount of space horizontally between the 120mm mount and the 8-pin power plug.
> 
> What do you think?


I have a Gigabyte Z77X-UP4-TH, which has a tall VRM heatsink at the very top of the board. Because of that, I was a few mm short of being able to fit it. A corsair series H100/H100i would have fit since the rad is a little smaller, and combined is 50mm. But "just".


----------



## Totally Dubbed

I understand people make mistakes, but Linus?
I wouldn't have expected that from him - such a simple thing to consider.
I'm no pro at PC building - but first thing I would have done is put the stock fans on the h100i and seen the temps - to really understand what was going on.
My comment on youtube got over 50 thumbs up...on his review video.
Anyway - guess he will test and the review


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. He used Noctua low voltage adapters on the Swiftech fans and it reduced RPM from 1800RPM to 600RPM. This is why you use the product as designed with what is in the kit and don't install it willy nilly because you think you are smarter than the people who designed it.


The worrying fact is he says he uses them all the time, which would suggest every review he has done is not showing the best result from the fans provided, in other words he should be doing all his test again if he is going to compare like for like.

cann't see why he doesn't just do the test again with out the fan reducer.


----------



## MeanBruce

.


----------



## Greenback

*Why isn't there an independent group with a proper laboratory that can run these simple tests and present their unbiased results*

Who would pay them, answer the companies they are doing the tests for who pays the most gets the better outcome, when money comes in there is never unbiased results


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pure2sin*
> 
> People make mistakes. I have respect for the fact they are going to retest everything and make sure they get it right.


Yea but what else has he screwed up?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> The SimCity shenanigans probably have me more off kilter than usual.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I applaud that he is willing to take responsibility and retest thoroughly. Though if he had taken the time to contact Swiftech before he put up the 20C difference review, he wouldn't have had this issue to begin with. Instead he went ahead with his bizarre results and Swiftech had to contact him instead. The reality is that the first video review out the door gets the most ad views on YouTube, so integrity tends to get thrown under the bus.
> 
> TotalBiscuit was talking about this with regards to the SimCity video reviews. His was 90 minutes long, so Rev3 got theirs out first, hurting his profits. Additionally, the video reviewers had early access and none of their reviews factor in the server problems of the past two days, so the reviews are completely unbased in the reality that the consumer is experiencing.
> 
> This also explains Tiny Tom Logan not dedicating enough time and testing to his reviews. The more time he spends reviewing, the less reviews he posts, the less money he gets, therefore he just slapdashes them and reels in the dollars. As long as he's getting paid, he doesn't care if the reviews are quality or not.


Nail on the head, at least as far as the review is concerned. Sure he is retesting, but what isn't he going to retest for lack of time and what kind of damage has already been done elsewhere?

First to market will always be a large barrier to surpass in any economy, it is just how things work.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> *Why isn't there an independent group with a proper laboratory that can run these simple tests and present their unbiased results*
> 
> Who would pay them, answer the companies they are doing the tests for who pays the most gets the better outcome, when money comes in there is never unbiased results


Lol, yea. Besides a company can be great, but for a review of a product I want to know who is testing it, and what they are doing. I don't want some black box I'm just supposed to trust.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Yea but what else has he screwed up?
> Nail on the head, at least as far as the review is concerned. Sure he is retesting, but what isn't he going to retest for lack of time and what kind of damage has already been done elsewhere?
> 
> First to market will always be a large barrier to surpass in any economy, it is just how things work.
> Lol, yea. Besides a company can be great, but for a review of a product I want to know who is testing it, and what they are doing. I don't want some black box I'm just supposed to trust.


The thing is everyone is criticing tom and linus, but there are other reviews on this that are just as bad but show a good result for the H220 so no one questions them, 1 shows the h220 beating the h100i by 7.5c but it's done on 2 different systems and cases


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> The thing is everyone is criticing tom and linus, but there are other reviews on this that are just as bad but show a good result for the H220 so no one questions them, 1 shows the h220 beating the h100i by 7.5c but it's done on 2 different systems and cases


People have already criticized the review using different cases. Bottom line, the bigger your name, the more criticism you will get. That is just the way the world works. Also more people bashed TTL's review because of his infatuation with the long tubes, and his constant going on about that. I agree with TTL that the tubes are long, however it is done for a very good reason. Swiftech will even be creating a video to help those who want to shorten the tubes. that sounds like pretty good customer service to me.


----------



## WiSK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> Why isn't there an independent group with a proper laboratory that can run these simple tests and present their unbiased results, not a guy in a clinic coat pretending he has covered all the bases?


Who would pay for an independent group? Manufacturers? What happens when this scientific independent review crowns one manufacturer as king-of-the hill? Or labels another manufacturer as worthless. Why keep paying if it's working against you? Martin has said many times he gets many emails from manufacturers who dispute his findings, however rigorous his methods. As soon as they know they are in 2nd place on a test review, they ask for publication delay to find justification for poor test results.

The only successful "independent" testers recently have been Plug and Load who organise the 80Plus testing. This is successful because before 80Plus there wasn't really an eye-catching sales-driving categorisation for PSU performance. So all the manufacturers want to be part of it, and because the results are only a categorisation, rather than a king-of-the-hill test, no one is worried about being in second place. But even with this 80Plus test, PSUs are still not well understood by the consumer and all an 80Plus certificate proves is that a PSU sample ran for 2 days in a lab without shutting down and generated a certain amount of waste heat. It really doesn't guarantee anything else like overload protection, operating environment ranges, lifespan, suitability for purpose, etc.

So why Linus is successful, I think it's been covered already:
- first review posted gets the highest number of views
- frequent posting of reviews increases subscribers
- the most popular reviewer gets the most review samples sent to him
- the one with the most review samples can do the most reviews
- majority of viewers don't want to watch something dry and scientific, generally respond better to someone who is enthusiastic
- majority of viewers respond better to someone who is 'famous', will base their trust on number of other viewers
- the more turnover the reviews generate, the more can be invested in the presentation (ie good camera work, sound, editing and post-production)
- viewers respond better to good presentation


----------



## MeanBruce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WiSK*
> 
> Who would pay for an independent group? Manufacturers? What happens when this scientific independent review crowns one manufacturer as king-of-the hill? Or labels another manufacturer as worthless. Why keep paying if it's working against you? Martin has said many times he gets many emails from manufacturers who dispute his findings, however rigorous his methods. As soon as they know they are in 2nd place on a test review, they ask for publication delay to find justification for poor test results.
> 
> The only successful "independent" testers recently have been Plug and Load who organise the 80Plus testing. This is successful because before 80Plus there wasn't really an eye-catching sales-driving categorisation for PSU performance. So all the manufacturers want to be part of it, and because the results are only a categorisation, rather than a king-of-the-hill test, no one is worried about being in second place. But even with this 80Plus test, PSUs are still not well understood by the consumer and all an 80Plus certificate proves is that a PSU sample ran for 2 days in a lab without shutting down and generated a certain amount of waste heat. It really doesn't guarantee anything else like overload protection, operating environment ranges, lifespan, suitability for purpose, etc.
> 
> So why Linus is successful, I think it's been covered already:
> - first review posted gets the highest number of views
> - frequent posting of reviews increases subscribers
> - the most popular reviewer gets the most review samples sent to him
> - the one with the most review samples can do the most reviews
> - majority of viewers don't want to watch something dry and scientific, generally respond better to someone who is enthusiastic
> - majority of viewers respond better to someone who is 'famous', will base their trust on number of other viewers
> - the more turnover the reviews generate, the more can be invested in the presentation (ie good camera work, sound, editing and post-production)
> - viewers respond better to good presentation


All this is, is setting up constants, repeating your procedures and taking down numbers, it's not all that complex. Does someone have to get paid? Martin could do this easily, I have faith in Martin.









High school students do this everyday for the local Science Fair.

Gabe can send me a unit, I have an H100i, will hold on credit card and return when finished. That is of course unless I LOVE it, then I'll keep it, please charge the card.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> All this is, is setting up constants, repeating your procedures and taking down numbers, it's not all that complex. Does someone have to get paid? Martin could do this easily, I have faith in Martin.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High school students do this everyday for the local Science Fair.
> 
> Gabe can send me a unit, I have an H100i, will hold on credit card and return when finished.


it's not the diffculty of it it's the time, and if you have a job family time is limited, The effeort martin puts in is great but if you want comparisons on 3 or 4 different products your looking at a months worth of work for him and as far as I know thats unpaid.


----------



## AdamMT

Seems to be a problem in every consumer area. Reviewing takes time, money, and experience. Someone has to pay and the deep pockets belong to the product manufacturers ... or some of them. Even if they aren't paying via direct sponsorship or advertising, they can influence outcomes by being selective in who they distribute review samples to, and when.

The only real alternative is to have a review site that is supported by subscriptions and/or unrelated advertising, but in the real world this rarely seems to work out. Consumers want the information but they/we don't want to pay for it. Consumer Reports seems to be an exception, but in trying to be all things to all people I think they often end up doing a poor job.

At the end of the day I think the best information comes from trusted enthusiasts like Martin who take the time to share their results. Unfortunately that means that the consumer has to take the time to figure out who's for real and who's a poser, and it isn't always possible to know. You just have to collect a lot of data points.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> The thing is everyone is criticing tom and linus, but there are other reviews on this that are just as bad but show a good result for the H220 so no one questions them, 1 shows the h220 beating the h100i by 7.5c but it's done on 2 different systems and cases


Certainly, there won't be uproar about it, as generally people are excited about H220... That doesn't mean those reviews are credible.

You're correct, mistakes are being made for and against "h220" reviews, but the problem is Linus and TTL saw 20 degrees difference between 2 products in similar situations, and this did _not_ throw up enough red flags for them to ask if they did something wrong? It is not possible for 2 products as similar as the H220 and H100i to perform 20c apart, all other things being equal. This is what people are upset about, that is why there is the uproar.

7.5c between different cases, ambient temperatures and different processors? Yea I can definitely see those skewing results, but that isn't a mistake it is just bad practice.


----------



## ez12a

Guys, at least (in my mind) the h220 lives up to its hype. Dont worry about what reviewers say. It is equal if not better than the h100i in most aspects. Ignore TTL's completely.

With GTs at full speed and at full CPU load, the thing is miles quieter than the Sp120 equipped h100i (i had one, watch my installation video on youtube for first power on. It's loud!). I also have helix fans and have run them at full speed and their noise profile is almost exactly like GTs, I would expect a few degree C difference, as the GTs are still a superior fan in terms of static pressure, but not by much.

at 4.5GHz, 1.368V, after an hour of prime95 the hottest core never exceeded 68C. That's impressive when the h100i after an hour was 73C. This would put it in about the same league as the X60 but with a 2x120mm form factor.

For those still on the fence, this cooler is beast. No doubts about it. Just mind spacing on your mobo for both the rad and the barbs.


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Certainly, there won't be uproar about it, as generally people are excited about H220... That doesn't mean those reviews are credible.
> 
> You're correct, mistakes are being made for and against "h220" reviews, but the problem is Linus and TTL saw 20 degrees difference between 2 products in similar situations, and this did _not_ throw up enough red flags for them to ask if they did something wrong? It is not possible for 2 products as similar as the H220 and H100i to perform 20c apart, all other things being equal. This is what people are upset about, that is why there is the uproar.
> 
> 7.5c between different cases, ambient temperatures and different processors? Yea I can definitely see those skewing results, but that isn't a mistake it is just bad practice.


Agreed. If I open my wallet and count the money and come up with $500, I automatically think to myself that I miscounted, and count again. I dont stand there excited that I have $500 when I was only expecting $25. A 20 degree difference should have sent off an alarm saying something was wrong. At that point things should have been looked at more closely and restested.


----------



## MeanBruce

.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. He used Noctua low voltage adapters on the Swiftech fans and it reduced RPM from 1800RPM to 600RPM. This is why you use the product as designed with what is in the kit and don't install it willy nilly because you think you are smarter than the people who designed it.


This is something I don't understand. I'm fine with revierwers being interested in finding a "base line" for the tests... but comparing the same voltage with different fans is STUPID. At least do a stock run vs x dB, so that at least you are normalizing something over there... but putting the base line at some RPM or Voltage is totally stupid and useless. Clearly Linus is a good reviewer but he better stop testing things he doesn't understand... because he is only showing how ignorant he is in this tets.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pure2sin*
> 
> People make mistakes. I have respect for the fact they are going to retest everything and make sure they get it right.


I don't. 20ºC is not a honest mistake. A good reviewer would have never published such data... because its clear as a day something is wrong. Tell me, If you got an NVIDIA Titan and performed less than a GTX680, would you review it as such or you would wait so that you understood what was going on? Hey, If you pay for your product its yours to do whatever you want, but if you are given products to test at least have some respect for the people who send you the units.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Agreed. It's a silly mistake to make, but it will lead to much better results in the end. It is interesting that the swiftech fans respond so drastically to the undervoltage, and is useful to know.


Thats probably because they are PWM. Keep in mind that even @12V if you send no pwm pulse the fan will be a lot slower... so, if you lower the voltage, the fan will be even slower than before. It doesn't take rocket science to understand this.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> The worrying fact is he says he uses them all the time, which would suggest every review he has done is not showing the best result from the fans provided, in other words he should be doing all his test again if he is going to compare like for like.
> 
> cann't see why he doesn't just do the test again with out the fan reducer.


Agreed









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> Method A. Out of the box:
> 
> For first-time users and baseline data, set the units up per the manufacturer's instructions using all stock equipment provided and collect your data at a constant 25C ambient. Present to the viewer's results for both units:
> 
> Idle stock
> 
> Idle overclock #1
> 
> Idle overclock #2
> 
> Load stock
> 
> Load overclock #1
> 
> Load overclock #2
> 
> Method B. Eliminate all possible variables:
> 
> For those DIY users that wish to initially or later use fans or TIM of their choosing, for improved performance.
> 
> Set up your constants:
> 
> 1. Independent TIM, same TIM and application method for both units
> 2. Independent fans, same fans for both units
> 3. Fan RPM constant for both units
> 4. Chassis and system specs constant for both units
> 5. Set a constant pump rpm for both units (if possible)
> 
> Only the individual characteristics of the pump, fluid, hose and radiator are being evaluated one unit vs the other, simple A - B testing. Collect your data at a constant 25C ambient.
> 
> Present to the viewer's results for both units:
> 
> Idle stock
> 
> Idle overclock #1
> 
> Idle overclock #2
> 
> Load stock
> 
> Load overclock #1
> 
> Load overclock #2
> 
> As much as I enjoy watching Linus and Tom, and will continue to watch, neither of them follow any real scientific methodology, they either have no concept of what is truly involved here or just do not have the time for a proper evaluation, or both.
> 
> The enthusiast community certainly could benefit from just a handful of engineers with university study to their credit at least as the experimenters, then let Linus and Tom just deliver the results in an entertaining manner as they always do.
> 
> Why isn't there an independent group with a proper laboratory that can run these simple tests and present their unbiased results, not a guy in a clinic coat pretending he has covered all the bases?
> 
> No disrespect meant towards Linus, I love the guy and his contribution, but sometimes what is needed is really too overwhelming for these video entertainers, and his sidekick with a camera.
> 
> Gosh its been a rough road so far with these reviewers, and no fault to Swiftech. Wishing Gabe and his fine crew the best of luck with these new units.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: Sorry, did I say engineers? Even a sophomore student lab technician in the physics lab could complete these evaluations.


Its a lot simpler than that. There is no need to keep the room at a certain temperature: provided you can keep it at a steady temperature, you can normalize your results. Also, I see no reason to check for idle temps, it just seems like a waste of time to me.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> The thing is everyone is criticing tom and linus, but there are other reviews on this that are just as bad but show a good result for the H220 so no one questions them, 1 shows the h220 beating the h100i by 7.5c but it's done on 2 different systems and cases


I have no idea what review is that. We criticise the things we know... so far, the reviews I've seen here are the TTL review and the Linus one (at least those are the ones that compared it to an H100i.


----------



## Greenback

I don't know it always seems I'm knocking this product, but I would pay the extra for this over the corsair and kraken, I think it gives both something to think about for thier future releases


----------



## MeanBruce

.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> Idle temps can be very important to some if you work with simple office apps for extended hours and need to reduce the "Space Heater Effect" from your PC, especially in warm climates.


No?

You are making a mistake believing the core temp of your CPU will translate into increased temperatures in your room. The issue with "space heater effect" would be the idle thermal energy in watts and how much of that is being dumped into the system. Ironically, on the CPU cooler that pulls heat away better, would behave more like a space heater, because more of the energy makes it into the loop to be dissipated by the radiator.


----------



## bencher

Tried 2 h100i and none fits in my haf 922.... sigh


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> Idle temps can be very important to some if you work with simple office apps for extended hours and need to reduce the "Space Heater Effect" from your PC, especially in warm climates.


Oh god. Please tell me you are kidding. Please.... please...

A computer will dump exactly the same heat whether it works at 30ºC or at 50ºC (well, not exactly, but I'm not going to talk about efficiencies as its cumbersome). So, no. Please check back your basics, you could make use of them. At the end of the day a computer eating 300W is a computer dumping 300W of heat. It doesn't matter if its liquid cooled, or air cooled, or not cooled at all, the heat is there regardless***

***provided you don't have the radiators in a different room, that is.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> No?
> 
> You are making a mistake believing the core temp of your CPU will translate into increased temperatures in your room. The issue with "space heater effect" would be the idle thermal energy in watts and how much of that is being dumped into the system. Ironically, on the CPU cooler that pulls heat away better, would behave more like a space heater, because more of the energy makes it into the loop to be dissipated by the radiator.


Nope. A 500W computer is a 500W heater in your room. It doesn't matter how you cool it, heat dumped into the room will be the same. Which is why its a very good idea to fold in winter if you live in a cold place... for starters, you have a heater in your room and, secondly, you are working on something cool.

---

*@swiftech crew*: there is something I've wondered. Is there any chance of making kits such as the http://www.swiftech.com/mc800smccoolingkit.aspx reusable? I mean, do you sell the self-adhesive thermal tape that is required to stick those heatsinks? Are they removable?

The thing that always turned me down on watercooling was gpu-cooling... because it seemed insane to expend around $100 per card, and then not be able to re-use it ever. So, if this solves the issue, the world becomes much more itneresting


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> I don't know it always seems I'm knocking this product, but I would pay the extra for this over the corsair and kraken, I think it gives both something to think about for thier future releases


I'm sure it does. The competition just got a lot more stiff. It used to be, competition wise, Asetek or Coolit, what fans are included, price and warranty. Now the actual unit, the important parts, are the competition. Proper rad, proper pump, etc are much harder for the other CLC to actually compete, because they themselves can't change any of those things without high costs. They basically have to wait for asetek or coolit to improve their product. I'm sure they aren't exactly comfortable with that notion.


----------



## msgclb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> LOL. He used Noctua low voltage adapters on the Swiftech fans and it reduced RPM from 1800RPM to 600RPM. This is why you use the product as designed with what is in the kit and don't install it willy nilly because you think you are smarter than the people who designed it.


I have a pair of Noctus NF-P12 fans and yesterday I was going to test the low voltage adapter with a Swiftech 120mm PWM fan that I have but found that these adapters are 3-pin.



So how did he use this adapter?

I'd like some feedback from the Swiftech team on the question can the Swiftech PWM fan be controlled by voltage like Linus attemped to do?


----------



## MeanBruce

.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *msgclb*
> 
> I have a pair of Noctus NF-P12 fans and yesterday I was going to test the low voltage adapter with a Swiftech 120mm PWM fan that I have but found that these adapters are 3-pin.
> 
> So how did he use this adapter?
> 
> I'd like some feedback from the Swiftech team on the question can the Swiftech PWM fan be controlled by voltage like Linus attemped to do?


You can use these adapters, but in speaking with Stephen, we don't recommend it. These fans are meant to work with 12 volts and then get adjusted via a PWM signal. Reducing these fans with voltage control is therefore not recommended because that isn't what they were designed for. This is also the reason why we include our 8 channel PWM splitter with this kit.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> question to swiftech: I found the extended screws to mount the fans on the 600t were too short. Did you guys remove the rubber isolating grommets in order to make it fit? I had to use my H50's screws that were long enough to mount the h220 to the 600t.


I'm the guy that mounted the H220 in the 600T and I do believe that I had to remove the rubber vibration dampeners to make the screws reach.


----------



## msgclb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> You can use these adapters, but in speaking with Stephen, we don't recommend it. These fans are meant to work with 12 volts and then get adjusted via a PWM signal. Reducing these fans with voltage control is therefore not recommended because that isn't what they were designed for. This is also the reason why we include our 8 channel PWM splitter with this kit.


I scrounged through my junk box and found a fan controller cable that had a 4-pin connector with 3 pins connected.

I don't have a system running that I want to use to monitor the RPM but I did use a power supply 4-pin to do a visual test.

With the adapter the PWM fan barely runs so I'd guess 600RPM would be about right.

Without the adapter the PWM fan runs at full speed.

After 20 years of working around jet engines about the only sound that bothers me is the freight train that passes my apartment every night around midnight!









So I'll run my H220 at full speed unless it sounds like that freight train.


----------



## AdamMT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> You can use these adapters, but in speaking with Stephen, we don't recommend it. These fans are meant to work with 12 volts and then get adjusted via a PWM signal. Reducing these fans with voltage control is therefore not recommended because that isn't what they were designed for. This is also the reason why we include our 8 channel PWM splitter with this kit.


Seems like y'all are being conservative with that recommendation. Isn't it six of one half-dozen of another if the fan voltage is reduced via PWM signal versus some other (fan controller) signal? The fan voltage is being reduced either way, no?


----------



## MeanBruce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Oh god. Please tell me you are kidding. Please.... please...
> 
> A computer will dump exactly the same heat whether it works at 30ºC or at 50ºC (well, not exactly, but I'm not going to talk about efficiencies as its cumbersome). So, no. Please check back your basics, you could make use of them. At the end of the day a computer eating 300W is a computer dumping 300W of heat. It doesn't matter if its liquid cooled, or air cooled, or not cooled at all, the heat is there regardless***
> 
> ***provided you don't have the radiators in a different room, that is.
> Nope. A 500W computer is a 500W heater in your room. It doesn't matter how you cool it, heat dumped into the room will be the same. Which is why its a very good idea to fold in winter if you live in a cold place... for starters, you have a heater in your room and, secondly, you are working on something cool.
> 
> *@swiftech crew*: there is something I've wondered. Is there any chance of making kits such as the http://www.swiftech.com/mc800smccoolingkit.aspx reusable? I mean, do you sell the self-adhesive thermal tape that is required to stick those heatsinks? Are they removable?
> 
> The thing that always turned me down on watercooling was gpu-cooling... because it seemed insane to expend around $100 per card, and then not be able to re-use it ever. So, if this solves the issue, the world becomes much more itneresting


So you are saying, if I'm only pulling 130watts at idle from my PSU, its only pumping 130watts into the room? No matter how many cold block seatings I complete or how low I get that Delta T? That's great.







Now ya see why lunkheads like me need engineers. Dude you should gather the data for Tom and Linus, hahahaha.

I'll just pull my foot out of my mouth and get back to work.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Nope. A 500W computer is a 500W heater in your room. It doesn't matter how you cool it, heat dumped into the room will be the same. Which is why its a very good idea to fold in winter if you live in a cold place... for starters, you have a heater in your room and, secondly, you are working on something cool.


There is a difference as to where the energy is dissipated. Your statement is true 500w of energy would be created by the CPU, but not necessarily make its way into the room to heat at a 500w effect. If the energy is trapped in the box while more energy in the room is able to dissipate, you're talking less effective temperature change generated. This is of course assuming a larger view of the system, but the energy dissipated by the radiator will have a far larger effect on temperatures than the direct heat value generated by the CPU.

This is a strange discussion because its not really cut and paste temperature or energy, its a odd combination of both. It seems the OP we both replied to was either ill informed or carelessly chose his words while people who would correct him were reading.


----------



## msgclb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Seems like y'all are being conservative with that recommendation. Isn't it six of one half-dozen of another if the fan voltage is reduced via PWM signal versus some other (fan controller) signal? The fan voltage is being reduced either way, no?


No!

Click link below and read...

*doesn't modulate the 12V supply line but instead sends a PWM signal along a different supply line*

But I'm sure *BramSLI1* can explain better than me!


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Seems like y'all are being conservative with that recommendation. Isn't it six of one half-dozen of another if the fan voltage is reduced via PWM signal versus some other (fan controller) signal? The fan voltage is being reduced either way, no?


Wiki - No, the fan always receives 12v through the power circuit, the signal then directs the fan to change its operating voltage internally. The difference is the outside is expecting 12v constantly, and designed for that.. and now you're feeding it 5v or whatever it will screw with the electronics over time. The PWM handles the modulation of the voltage internally.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MeanBruce*
> 
> So you are saying, if I'm only pulling 130watts at idle from my PSU, its only pumping 130watts into the room? No matter how many cold block seatings I complete or how low I get that Delta T? That's great.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now ya see why lunkheads like me need engineers. Dude you should gather the data for Tom and Linus, hahahaha.
> 
> I'll just pull my foot out of my mouth and get back to work.


Yup, exactly. The thing many people don't know is that a computer makes barely any "real" work at all. If you have an combustion engine, some part of the power it consumes is used to make some work, whereas some other is just waste heat. So, we would be talking about the efficiency of the engine to calculate how much waste heat we had. In a computer the "real" work is close to none. We have barely any mechanical parts (some fans), and there is a negligible amount of power used to iluminate a few things here and there but, overall, the 99% of the power eaten by a computer is wasted as heat. Thats why in a closed room the heat dumped by your computer will never change no matter what kind of cooling you are using.

PS: well, to be precise, temperature affects computer efficiency. The colder a chip is, the less heat it will create. So, the colder you have a computer, the less heat it will produce (although its a very minor thing) but, on the other hand... you require more power to get stuff cold. So, its not something direct... not at all. Still, its easier to assume that power consumption doesn't change with temperature, although it does, slightly.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> There is a difference as to where the energy is dissipated. Your statement is true 500w of energy would be created by the CPU, but not necessarily make its way into the room to heat at a 500w effect. If the energy is trapped in the box while more energy in the room is able to dissipate, you're talking less effective temperature change generated. This is of course assuming a larger view of the system, but the energy dissipated by the radiator will have a far larger effect on temperatures than the direct heat value generated by the CPU.
> 
> This is a strange discussion because its not really cut and paste temperature or energy, its a odd combination of both. It seems the OP we both replied to was either ill informed or carelessly chose his words while people who would correct him were reading.


But you are looking into the fine print here. Certainly having the computer far away from the user will make it feel "colder", simply because temperature in a non-sealed box (aka, a normal room) is neven even... but, still, this doesn't change my example. A computer that eats 500W is dumping 500W once it has reached the equilibrium, that is. At the end of the day, if you apply heat to something, and that something doesn't heat it, it means the heat is going somewhere. So, your computer in a sealed box would not emit heat as long as the temperatures keep rising... but once they settle, all the heat the computer is creating is being dissipated into the air. No more no less


----------



## gsk3rd

What is the live expectancy of the fans if used with a fan controller that is not PWM controlled? Not looking for concrete answer just a ball park. What controls the fan rpm in PWM? Bios? software? What determines the setpoint?


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gsk3rd*
> 
> What is the live expectancy of the fans if used with a fan controller that is not PWM controlled? Not looking for concrete answer just a ball park. What controls the fan rpm in PWM? Bios? software? What determines the setpoint?


The rpm is determined by the pwm pulse you send them + how the fan is designed. You can control it with any proper 4-plug pwm controller... such as the ones included in your motherboard. Then, you can use either bios or software to run that pwm-plug without a problem.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Yup, exactly. The thing many people don't know is that a computer makes barely any "real" work at all. If you have an combustion engine, some part of the power it consumes is used to make some work, whereas some other is just waste heat. So, we would be talking about the efficiency of the engine to calculate how much waste heat we had. In a computer the "real" work is close to none. We have barely any mechanical parts (some fans), and there is a negligible amount of power used to iluminate a few things here and there but, overall, the 99% of the power eaten by a computer is wasted as heat. Thats why in a closed room the heat dumped by your computer will never change no matter what kind of cooling you are using.
> 
> PS: well, to be precise, temperature affects computer efficiency. The colder a chip is, the less heat it will create. So, the colder you have a computer, the less heat it will produce (although its a very minor thing) but, on the other hand... you require more power to get stuff cold. So, its not something direct... not at all. Still, its easier to assume that power consumption doesn't change with temperature, although it does, slightly.
> But you are looking into the fine print here. Certainly having the computer far away from the user will make it feel "colder", simply because temperature in a non-sealed box (aka, a normal room) is neven even... but, still, this doesn't change my example. A computer that eats 500W is dumping 500W once it has reached the equilibrium, that is. At the end of the day, if you apply heat to something, and that something doesn't heat it, it means the heat is going somewhere. So, your computer in a sealed box would not emit heat as long as the temperatures keep rising... but once they settle, all the heat the computer is creating is being dissipated into the air. No more no less


It is true I was nit-picking... slightly. My point still stands about the discussion, the concept is always strange to try to explain the massive differences in concept between heat and temperatures. It is almost as annoying of a discussion as trying to explain the differences of weight to mass. This is just perfectionist in me attempting to be as accurate as possible to the topic which was originally brought up, which was entirely relative in the first place.


----------



## gsk3rd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> The rpm is determined by the pwm pulse you send them + how the fan is designed. You can control it with any proper 4-plug pwm controller... such as the ones included in your motherboard. Then, you can use either bios or software to run that pwm-plug without a problem.


With the pwm controller can normal 3 pin fans be hooked up to it as well?


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gsk3rd*
> 
> With the pwm controller can normal 3 pin fans be hooked up to it as well?


Yes, but they will run at full speed.


----------



## WarMacheen

What was the final resolution, if any of the 20 degree difference in the Linus review?

Air, fans, user error?

Do I need to buy some ugly fans


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WarMacheen*
> 
> What was the final resolution, if any of the 20 degree difference in the Linus review?
> 
> Air, fans, user error?
> 
> Do I need to buy some ugly fans


User ignorance, yup. But just wait a few more days, soon Martin will have his H100i review done, and then we will see what is what


----------



## AdamMT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Wiki - No, the fan always receives 12v through the power circuit, the signal then directs the fan to change its operating voltage internally. The difference is the outside is expecting 12v constantly, and designed for that.. and now you're feeding it 5v or whatever it will screw with the electronics over time. The PWM handles the modulation of the voltage internally.


Yep, I understand that, but either way, the fan speed is being modulated by reducing the voltage. I can see how a pump might be sensitive to transients and therefore it wouldn't be advisable to control via 3-pin. Theoretically fans can have the same issue. But I wonder if anyone has actually seen a 4-pin fan fail because it was being controlled via a 3-pin connector?

Manufacturers' recommendaton? Well, contrary to recommendations, I've been putting non-Toro oil into my mower and it seems to be holding up okay.


----------



## MerkageTurk

Just ordered the H220 from Swiftech because i was facing problems with h100i and amazon is giving me a full refund


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> User ignorance, yup. But just wait a few more days, soon Martin will have his H100i review done, and then we will see what is what


We already have a pretty good idea from ez12a's assessment of these two coolers. I think his results speak for themselves and we'll see very similar results from both Linus and Martin. That would be my assumption at least.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Seems like y'all are being conservative with that recommendation. Isn't it six of one half-dozen of another if the fan voltage is reduced via PWM signal versus some other (fan controller) signal? The fan voltage is being reduced either way, no?


not exactly no.
average voltage on each pole of the motor on a period of time would be the same.
But a true PWM fan uses an IC to switch the motor on and off several thousands times per second to achieve whatever RPM you desire (between 600 and 1800). that IC is supposed to work on 12V.
When you run the fan off a voltage type fan controller you are actually supplying that IC with a lower voltage. that's why we do not recommend it. It seems like that IC still works with lower voltage but it's not how it supposed to work.

then there is the other type of 3-pin fan controller - they claim PWM control which is confusing. These controllers have this PWM IC built-in - it allows them to switch the 3-pin output on and off several thousand times per second also. While it works fine with regular 3-pin fan (other than for minor clicking noise due as capacitor noise reduction is function of the fan that's used - and that it's impossible to have a capacitor NR that will work for any type of fan), it is really NOT intended to use with true PWM fans. Because: you are basically modulating the voltage that goes into the fan IC. I've seen it work but again it's not how it's supposed to work. That IC built-in the fan is NOT supposed to be turned on and off thousand of times per second.


----------



## gsk3rd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> not exactly not.
> average voltage on each pole of the motor on a period of time would be the same.
> But a true PWM fan uses an IC to switch the motor on and off several thousands times per second to achieve whatever RPM you desire (between 600 and 1800). that IC is supposed to work on 12V.
> When you run the fan off a voltage type fan controller you are actually supplying that IC with a lower voltage. that's why we do not recommend it. It seems like that IC still works with lower voltage but it's not how it supposed to work.
> 
> then there is the other type of 3-pin fan controller - they claim PWM control which is confusing. These controllers have this PWM IC built-in - it allows them to switch the 3-pin output on and off several thousand times per second also. While it works fine with regular 3-pin fan (other than for minor clicking noise due as capacitor noise reduction is function of the fan that's used - and that it's impossible to have a capacitor NR that will work for any type of fan), it is really NOT intended to use with true PWM fans. Because: you are basically modulating the voltage that goes into the fan IC. I've seen it work but again it's not how it's supposed to work. That IC built-in the fan is NOT supposed to be turned on and off thousand of times per second.


dropping knowledge!!!!!

thank you for the explanation.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> We already have a pretty good idea from ez12a's assessment of these two coolers. I think his results speak for themselves and we'll see very similar results from both Linus and Martin. That would be my assumption at least.


You already have your own measurements, you mean









---

could you please clarify about this?
Quote:


> there is something I've wondered. Is there any chance of making kits such as the http://www.swiftech.com/mc800smccoolingkit.aspx reusable? I mean, do you sell the self-adhesive thermal tape that is required to stick those heatsinks? Are they removable?
> 
> The thing that always turned me down on watercooling was gpu-cooling... because it seemed insane to expend around $100 per card, and then not be able to re-use it ever. So, if this solves the issue, the world becomes much more itneresting
> Edited by prava - Today at 6:00 pm View History


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> You already have your own measurements, you mean


As we have stated previously we have already tested both of these coolers ourselves in our lab. So yes, we have our own measurements.


----------



## WarMacheen

This has probably been posted decades ago, but for lazy people like me that can't be bothered to read, I found the video Linus made stating there was a mistake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJQBzMALZ7s&feature=player_embedded


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WarMacheen*
> 
> This has probably been posted decades ago, but for lazy people like me that can't be bothered to read, I found the video Linus made stating there was a mistake.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJQBzMALZ7s&feature=player_embedded


It was actually a pretty classy thing for him to admit that he made a mistake. I wish other reviewers would man-up and admit when they've made a mistake. Well, one in particular.


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WarMacheen*
> 
> This has probably been posted decades ago...


Welcome to 13 hours ago: http://www.overclock.net/t/1345816/various-swiftech-h220-240mm-aio-water-cooler-expandable/2690#post_19457066


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> Welcome to 13 hours ago: http://www.overclock.net/t/1345816/various-swiftech-h220-240mm-aio-water-cooler-expandable/2690#post_19457066


FIRST!!!


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> FIRST!!!


Second!! Wait, whut?!

Nah, that way people can go back and read through the ensuing conversation and not rehash it all again. And then 12 hours from now someone else will post the same video and it'll happen all over again. Forums, how do they work?


----------



## AdamMT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> not exactly no.
> average voltage on each pole of the motor on a period of time would be the same.
> But a true PWM fan uses an IC to switch the motor on and off several thousands times per second to achieve whatever RPM you desire (between 600 and 1800). that IC is supposed to work on 12V.
> When you run the fan off a voltage type fan controller you are actually supplying that IC with a lower voltage. that's why we do not recommend it. It seems like that IC still works with lower voltage but it's not how it supposed to work.
> 
> then there is the other type of 3-pin fan controller - they claim PWM control which is confusing. These controllers have this PWM IC built-in - it allows them to switch the 3-pin output on and off several thousand times per second also. While it works fine with regular 3-pin fan (other than for minor clicking noise due as capacitor noise reduction is function of the fan that's used - and that it's impossible to have a capacitor NR that will work for any type of fan), it is really NOT intended to use with true PWM fans. Because: you are basically modulating the voltage that goes into the fan IC. I've seen it work but again it's not how it's supposed to work. That IC built-in the fan is NOT supposed to be turned on and off thousand of times per second.


That's very interesting. Thanks for taking the time to explain it.


----------



## Pure2sin

Kinda pissed I bought a Sunbeam PL-RS-6 Rheosmart 6 controller now. I just want something that looks and functions like it but is true PWM control.


----------



## AdamMT

Probably a dumb question, but since my Sabertooth X79 uses four-pin connectors for ALL the fans, am I correct in thinking that they are all PWM-fan-capable? And in that case the pump doesn't necessarily (but might just as well) have to go to the CPU header?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Probably a dumb question, but since my Sabertooth X79 uses four-pin connectors for ALL the fans, am I correct in thinking that they are all PWM-fan-capable? And in that case the pump doesn't necessarily (but might just as well) have to go to the CPU header?


Yes it is PWM. you can use Asus software to set, control and monitor speed. It is same as my Z77 Sabertooth, except for assist fans which is 3pin.


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Probably a dumb question, but since my Sabertooth X79 uses four-pin connectors for ALL the fans, am I correct in thinking that they are all PWM-fan-capable? And in that case the pump doesn't necessarily (but might just as well) have to go to the CPU header?


not necessarily. Some of these 4-pin may only be fully PWM capable when an external temperature probe is connected to it. Some Asus boards are like this, not sure about yours. Check your user manual and see it says.


----------



## WarMacheen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> Welcome to 13 hours ago: http://www.overclock.net/t/1345816/various-swiftech-h220-240mm-aio-water-cooler-expandable/2690#post_19457066


Thanks, 13 hours ago I was playing in the snow and couldn't be bothered with keeping up with this thread lol.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> It was actually a pretty classy thing for him to admit that he made a mistake. I wish other reviewers would man-up and admit when they've made a mistake. Well, one in particular.


Honestly, I would be embarrassed not to admit my mistake. Being wrong sucks, but being a fool is worse, and not admitting a mistake makes you a fool.


----------



## Heuchler

New Review (didn't see it posted) came out yesterday

Swiftech H220 Water Cooling System Review @ thinkcomputers.org
Quote:


> ThinkComputers gives the Swiftech H220 a score of 10 out of 10.


http://www.thinkcomputers.org/swiftech-h220-water-cooling-system-review/5/

Been bugging the works at Micro Center when they will have the H220 in-stock.
Only retail store around that has real water cooling products (including Swiftech).


----------



## AdamMT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> not necessarily. Some of these 4-pin may only be fully PWM capable when an external temperature probe is connected to it. Some Asus boards are like this, not sure about yours. Check your user manual and see it says.


Right, just checked an apparently only the cpu and aux cpu connectors are PWM. Those pinouts read: cpu fan pwm, cpu fan in, cpu fan pwr, gnd. All the rest of them are: +5v, chan fan in, chan fan pwer, gnd.

Curious....


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> not necessarily. Some of these 4-pin may only be fully PWM capable when an external temperature probe is connected to it. Some Asus boards are like this, not sure about yours. Check your user manual and see it says.
> 
> 
> 
> Right, just checked an apparently only the cpu and aux cpu connectors are PWM. Those pinouts read: cpu fan pwm, cpu fan in, cpu fan pwr, gnd. All the rest of them are: +5v, chan fan in, chan fan pwer, gnd.
> 
> Curious....
Click to expand...

I went through my X79 sabertooth manual 2-22 and all are PWM.


----------



## msgclb

I just went through my Sabertooth 990FX manual and 2 CPU connectors are PWM but 4 other fan connectors are not.


----------



## sikkly

So I actually have a question for you swiftech guys. I currently have a bunch of the non PWM helix fans(picked them up at $5 a pop, couldn't help myself) that I'm using. The Arc midi r2 has it's own simple voltage fan controller, and I was planning on using it to power all my case/radiator fans until I have the money to buy a proper fan controller, and using the CPU header to control the pump independently.

Based on what you have said about your PWM fans, I'm assuming I should use 4 of the non PWM fans on the rad, since the controller uses voltage to control, and the non PWM and PWM would react differently, right? I have enough fans where I can set the PWM fans aside and not use them at all, which is my plan now. At first I thought it wouldn't matter, but from the info you gave us it seems like the PWM fan's wouldn't like being controlled like that. Just wanted some clarification, thanks in advance!


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> So I actually have a question for you swiftech guys. I currently have a bunch of the non PWM helix fans(picked them up at $5 a pop, couldn't help myself) that I'm using. The Arc midi r2 has it's own simple voltage fan controller, and I was planning on using it to power all my case/radiator fans until I have the money to buy a proper fan controller, and using the CPU header to control the pump independently.
> 
> Based on what you have said about your PWM fans, I'm assuming I should use 4 of the non PWM fans on the rad, since the controller uses voltage to control, and the non PWM and PWM would react differently, right? I have enough fans where I can set the PWM fans aside and not use them at all, which is my plan now. At first I thought it wouldn't matter, but from the info you gave us it seems like the PWM fan's wouldn't like being controlled like that. Just wanted some clarification, thanks in advance!


yeah you can use 4 non PWM fans on a separate fan control to adjust their speed. and since you won't need the splitter you can plug the pump directly on the motherboard's CPU fan header.


----------



## ez12a

my unboxing vid is up!

Not that it's anything you guys havent seen before:



installation video is being edited.

I would say installation isnt as "smooth" as the h100i due to the sliding screws on the bracket and pump but it's not crazy difficult.


----------



## AdamMT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> I went through my X79 sabertooth manual 2-22 and all are PWM.


As I just mentioned, the pinouts for the connectors on that very page indicate that only the cpu headers are PWM. The first wire for those headers is listed as PWM, whereas the first wire of all the other headers is listed as +5 volts.


----------



## WiSK

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pure2sin*
> 
> Kinda pissed I bought a Sunbeam PL-RS-6 Rheosmart 6 controller now. I just want something that looks and functions like it but is true PWM control.


Even if you don't use it on this build, that's a very good PWM converter. There is still the fact that some of the best fans for rads are 3-pin and the Rheosmart can still be a good way to control them. Case in point: I tried the Noiseblocker PK-3 and the Noiseblocker PK-PS which is basically the same fan but the latter is PWM controlled. The PK-3 with a Rheosmart was quieter (at same rpms) and just as responsive as the PK-PS with "native" PWM inside the fan itself.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Correct sir. Didn't clearly read. I had pwm fans on all headers. No longer have mobo to test.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


----------



## reqq

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> The worrying fact is he says he uses them all the time, which would suggest every review he has done is not showing the best result from the fans provided, in other words he should be doing all his test again if he is going to compare like for like.
> 
> cann't see why he doesn't just do the test again with out the fan reducer.


his h80i temps looks shady.. i read several other tests vs h90 and all them show h80i being better.


----------



## TheTingez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> It was actually a pretty classy thing for him to admit that he made a mistake. I wish other reviewers would man-up and admit when they've made a mistake. Well, one in particular.


Well said Bram, he has raised my impression of him as a reviewer that's for sure. I'm also glad to see that other posters in YouTube have listened to the people pointing out the possible errors. Unlike certain other reviewers who will remain nameless but like to call people that disagree with him "n000bs" lol


----------



## ez12a

lol TTL still saying this thing is inferior to the h100i?


----------



## navit

Lol.......


----------



## TheTingez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> lol TTL still saying this thing is inferior to the h100i?


Yes buddy he is and it does not look like he will do as Linus did and redo or even review his testing. I might be wrong and he does do so but i will not be holding my breath ... lol ... He's just happy to call me and others "n000bs" for giving an honest opinion. The truth is all we are after but i think that's beyond him.


----------



## BodenM

Told my friend that the H220 was out, he went to order one last night and they were all out of stock. People must be buying these in droves :O
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> lol TTL still saying *this thing is inferior to the h100i*?


>mfw


----------



## guinner16

Not sure if this has been asked before but how many ml of coolant does it take to completely fill the system.


----------



## sikkly

Martin pulled around 300 ml out of his system when he drained it. http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/01/27/swiftech-h220-prefilled-2x120mm-water-cooling-kit/3/


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> Martin pulled around 300 ml out of his system when he drained it. http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/01/27/swiftech-h220-prefilled-2x120mm-water-cooling-kit/3/


Thank you


----------



## undermined

I'm pretty set on ordering a h220 now but I have a question.

Does the fillport need to be facing "up" and if so aren't the fans then set by default to push the intake into the case if I place it up top in my Arc Midi?

Also I was thinking I'd order 2 more Helix 120mm PWM fans to go push pull but them all being PWM allowing me to tweak the noise keeping it quieter.

Looking at Martin's setup , he had it mounted in the bottom and I didn't get good info from the TTL review or Linus for the reasons others already mentions , so I'm wondering it the Helix 120mm PWMs are worth getting adding or would I need something better to make doing push pull worthwhile?

I already have a 180mm in the side and now I just want to optimize my setup if I'm gonna be adding the H220

Where are most of you buying your H220's? I see most vendors are out until the 11th of March but I wasn't sure if ordering from frozencpu is worth it over waiting till Monday if they are also waiting on stock.

I figure I can grab the fans in the mean time but I don't know who is a good option or if one vendor is preferred by the people here for getting a h220.


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *undermined*
> 
> I'm pretty set on ordering a h220 now but I have a question.
> 
> Does the fillport need to be facing "up" and if so aren't the fans then set by default to push the intake into the case if I place it up top in my Arc Midi?
> 
> Also I was thinking I'd order 2 more Helix 120mm PWM fans to go push pull but them all being PWM allowing me to tweak the noise keeping it quieter.
> 
> Looking at Martin's setup , he had it mounted in the bottom adn I didn't get good info for the TTL review or Linus for the reasons others already mentions , so I'm wondering it the Helix 120mm PWMs are worth getting adding or would I need something better to make doing push pull worthwhile? I'm willing to spend on better fans if they will perform better, I just didn't want to double up on the helix ones if I'd end up getting 4 of another brand.
> 
> Likely I'd be replacing all the Fractal Design 140mm's too for the 2 front and 1 rear to some pwm model but I have no clue which models to consider and the Arc Midi I have needs a square frame fan in the front mounts since it uses clips instead of screw mounts like the newest r2 version does.
> 
> I already have a 180mm in the side and now I just want to optimize my setup if I'm gonna be adding the H220
> 
> Also, were are most of you buying your H220's? I see most vendors are out until the 11th of March but I wasn't sure if ordering from frozencpu is worth it over waiting till Monday if they are also waiting on stock.
> 
> I figure I can grab the fans in the mean time but I don't know who is a good option or if one vendor is preferred by the people here for getting a h220.


no the fillport doesnt need to be facing upwards

and though they seem to be flying off the shelf in the usa can still get hold of one in the uk--just cant decide if its better enough than my h80 before getting one


----------



## jprovido

how is the performance with this cooler? tbh it looks horrible hoses are way too long


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jprovido*
> 
> how is the performance with this cooler? tbh it looks horrible hoses are way too long












It's made to be expandable / customizable, meaning that they left extra length in the tubing for long mounting distances and for people to cut down the length as well.

Thanks - T


----------



## jprovido

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thrasher1016*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's made to be expandable / customizable, meaning that they left extra length in the tubing for long mounting distances and for people to cut down the length as well.
> 
> Thanks - T


easy there tiger sorry I hurt your feelings

has anyone tried adding a gpu block, reservoir? I'm really curious with the performance I've actually seen one of these in our local shop yesterday


----------



## WarMacheen

Swiftech, thanks for the $10 refund, pretty sure I purchased outside of the timeframe on the first day so I didn't bother asking, but you guys hooked me up anyway!.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jprovido*
> 
> easy there tiger sorry I hurt your feelings
> 
> has anyone tried adding a gpu block, reservoir? I'm really curious with the performance I've actually seen one of these in our local shop yesterday


I will be on tuesday night / wednesday when my H220 comes in if I can find the time. At least, I'll be adding another rad and my titan. This already has a res in the radiator.

I was about to say hi and call you Linus, ranting about the tube length.









By many reviews of the closed loop system it works well, by Swiftech releases and videos it appears like it would be easy to expand, and very similar to working with an AD2.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *undermined*
> 
> I'm pretty set on ordering a h220 now but I have a question.
> 
> Does the fillport need to be facing "up" and if so aren't the fans then set by default to push the intake into the case if I place it up top in my Arc Midi?
> 
> Also I was thinking I'd order 2 more Helix 120mm PWM fans to go push pull but them all being PWM allowing me to tweak the noise keeping it quieter.
> 
> Looking at Martin's setup , he had it mounted in the bottom adn I didn't get good info for the TTL review or Linus for the reasons others already mentions , so I'm wondering it the Helix 120mm PWMs are worth getting adding or would I need something better to make doing push pull worthwhile? I'm willing to spend on better fans if they will perform better, I just didn't want to double up on the helix ones if I'd end up getting 4 of another brand.
> 
> Likely I'd be replacing all the Fractal Design 140mm's too for the 2 front and 1 rear to some pwm model but I have no clue which models to consider and the Arc Midi I have needs a square frame fan in the front mounts since it uses clips instead of screw mounts like the newest r2 version does.
> 
> I already have a 180mm in the side and now I just want to optimize my setup if I'm gonna be adding the H220
> 
> Also, were are most of you buying your H220's? I see most vendors are out until the 11th of March but I wasn't sure if ordering from frozencpu is worth it over waiting till Monday if they are also waiting on stock.
> 
> I figure I can grab the fans in the mean time but I don't know who is a good option or if one vendor is preferred by the people here for getting a h220.


Yes, the fans are set to intake of air from the outside. That is better than exhaust for cooling purposes.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jprovido*
> 
> how is the performance with this cooler? tbh it looks horrible hoses are way too long


Yup, its my only real complain too. At the end of the day if you plan to expand it... how hard it is to get a few feet worth of tube? Not at all.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> no the fillport doesnt need to be facing upwards
> 
> and though they seem to be flying off the shelf in the usa can still get hold of one in the uk--just cant decide if its better enough than my h80 before getting one


You don't know if its significantly better than an H80 Corsair???? You obviously have not been paying attention to the tests. If it's better than an H100i I would have to say it's much better than H80. Geez.


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> You don't know if its significantly better than an H80 Corsair???? You obviously have not been paying attention to the tests. If it's better than an H100i I would have to say it's much better than H80. Geez.


since i am already at 5ghz with the h80 in push/pull and have replaced the stock corsair fans with quieter ones and have good temps--what i meant is it almost £120 worth better?

really wanting to see some actual real life results posted on here rather than tests from reviewers since ttl and especially linus managed to screw up the tests


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> since i am already at 5ghz with the h80 in push/pull and have replaced the stock corsair fans with quieter ones and have good temps--what i meant is it almost £120 worth better?
> 
> really wanting to see some actual real life results posted on here rather than tests from reviewers since ttl and especially linus managed to screw up the tests


Here's my h100i results after nearly 24hr of prime95 blend with *7 threads* (it hit 73C in the first hour though, look at Real Temp's readouts) @ 4.6 Ghz and 1.376V (fluctuated due to offset voltage):

it really was only doing 7 threads for some reason. I posted a question regarding it way back when.

Here's my h220 results after 1 hour of prime95 blend @ 4.5 and 1.368V (fluctuated due to offset) w/ *8 Threads*:


I can re-test again at 4.6 later just for testing sake. (edit) but i think everyone here knows that 100mhz really wont make up for a 5C difference.

with this particular mobo and temp sensor readout, sub 70C overclocked at load is impressive. My friend who sold me this rig and used it with an h100(non i) always got above 70.


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> Here's my h100i results after nearly 24hr of prime95 blend with *7 threads* (it hit 73C in the first hour though, look at Real Temp's readouts) @ 4.6 Ghz and 1.376V (fluctuated due to offset voltage):
> 
> it really was only doing 7 threads for some reason. I posted a question regarding it way back when.
> 
> Here's my h220 results after 1 hour of prime95 blend @ 4.5 and 1.368V (fluctuated due to offset) w/ *8 Threads*:
> 
> 
> I can re-test again at 4.6 later just for testing sake.
> 
> with this particular mobo and temp sensor readout, sub 70C overclocked at load is impressive. My friend who sold me this rig and used it with an h100(non i) always got above 70.


thank you

thats usefull


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> Here's my h100i results after nearly 24hr of prime95 blend with *7 threads* (it hit 73C in the first hour though, look at Real Temp's readouts) @ 4.6 Ghz and 1.376V (fluctuated due to offset voltage):
> 
> it really was only doing 7 threads for some reason. I posted a question regarding it way back when.
> 
> Here's my h220 results after 1 hour of prime95 blend @ 4.5 and 1.368V (fluctuated due to offset) w/ *8 Threads*:
> 
> 
> I can re-test again at 4.6 later just for testing sake.
> 
> with this particular mobo and temp sensor readout, sub 70C overclocked at load is impressive. My friend who sold me this rig and used it with an h100(non i) always got above 70.


cant see how to edit my other post

but +1 rep


----------



## ez12a

Thank you! Forgot to mention, H100i was paired with included SP120L fans maxed out. H220, 2x GT-AP15 maxed out.

i dont have to tell you which one was ridiculously loud lol. both are comparable in terms of static pressure, and I think the Sp120s even have the slight edge over the GTs, Sp120s having over 3 mm/h2o


----------



## justanoldman

I never did any real testing of my H100i at high fan speeds, it was just too loud. What I have done is tested my 5.0 3770k at around 1.41v with two different fans on the H100i. I tested the included H100i fans (the new ones that are 4 pin), then tested with two Noctua NF-P12, which are case fans but they work ok on a rad.

I set each set of fans at 1350 rpm because I don't like noise. Both sets of fans were within a margin of testing error within each other, but the Noctua were definitely quieter. I will be testing the H220 fans at that rpm also to compare. As far as I am concerned, if the H220 performs the same as the H100i, then it wins because it can be expanded. If it performs better, that is just icing on the cake.

As an aside, I don't pay any attention to test results at max settings because I won't run them that way. I also put zero significance in tests that show 1 to 2c difference between two products. There are way to may variables that can change results by that much randomly. So while I can't tell anyone who like max fan speed much, I will be able to tell you guys how the H220 compares at quite fan speeds. Just waiting for UPS late today.


----------



## msgclb

I just signed for my H220 and I'm lucky it was delivered.









It seems your Swiftech sales team wasn't clairvoyant enough to see that I entered the wrong address; I transposed two numbers.

It seems the wrong address wasn't enough to set off bells when my CC was charged.

My luck really held out because today my normal UPS driver was working and not a replacement driver that probably would have tried to deliver this package to a vacant lot.









I've corrected my error so the next time I can be confident that even a rookie will find me.









While unboxing I noticed that you use some strange *peanuts*!

I won't be able to go any further until I get back in a few hours.


----------



## SDelong

Just ordered one of these today from FrozenCPU. Along with 4x Cooljag Everflow 120mm x 32mm PWM Fan (R121232BUAF). Anyone know if this will be a good combo or if these fans are good in general?


----------



## glakr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *glakr*
> 
> Did you ever test this with the sabertooth? I have a Define R4 which looks like it is good to go but still questionable on the sabertooth. Tried to read through all the thread. anybody else do this with Z77 sabertooth?
> 
> I want to pre-order before the first batch is all gone. HELP!


Just thought I would report back in case anybody else is looking at this combo. Swiftech was going to mock this up and make sure it worked for me but ran across the review at HiTech Legion. He is using this exact setup. Fractal Define R4 + Asus Z77 Sabertooth + the New H220. Seems to go together without a hitch!

http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/cooling/liquid/32847-swiftech-h220?showall=&start=1


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> snip


yeah, everyone has their testing methods. (Linus tests everything at "1k" rpm or something)

I like to test everything at their "best" and not necessarily how i'd use them 24/7. If the h100i with everything maxed out still cant beat the h220 with marginally better fans (GTs) then which is the better product? Especially when doing stability runs like I did in the h100i screen cap, i want everything as cool as it can be. Fan speeds can always go down when i'm not testing.

but yeah if all things equal, h220 upper hand due to the ability to take it apart and refill.

which just goes to show the strange results TTL came up with since he also "maxed everything", even with the stock swiftech fans i cant see the h220 losing by that much of a margin.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> ....which just goes to show the strange results TTL came up with since he also "maxed everything", even with the stock swiftech fans i cant see the h220 losing by that much of a margin.


TTL never mentioned really how he "maxed everything". He said that he didn't use our PWM splitter, which demonstrates that he never really tested this kit "right out of the box" the way it will most likely be used by the majority of those who purchase it. Linus at least had the courage to admit that he made a mistake and for that he deserves respect.


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> TTL never mentioned really how he "maxed everything". He said that he didn't use our PWM splitter, which demonstrates that he never really tested this kit "right out of the box" the way it will most likely be used by the majority of those who purchase it. Linus at least had the courage to admit that he made a mistake and for that he deserves respect.


Exactly.

Btw, I'm breaking my pitchfork back out. 2-3 business day shipping, email went out Tuesday and EST arrival time is Tuesday next week.

Damn you west coasters, damn you.


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> TTL never mentioned really how he "maxed everything". He said that he didn't use our PWM splitter, which demonstrates that he never really tested this kit "right out of the box" the way it will most likely be used by the majority of those who purchase it. Linus at least had the courage to admit that he made a mistake and for that he deserves respect.


whilst i admire people who will stand up and say i made a mistake--kudos to linus for that

as a seasoned user and reviewer he really should have realised that 20c difference just couldnt be right

and not published his review before further investigating--reviews like his and ttl are part of the reason people like me are still sitting on the fence before buying this product


----------



## Vash101

In the TTL review he said he used the splitter without it hooked to the board and also tried it hooked straight to the power supply. He said it gave the same result. So unless something doesn't work right without being hooked to PWM what did he do wrong other than not test the ability to turn stuff down.


----------



## Phelan

Quick question- can the non-PWM Helix fans be speed moderated with a fan controller without issue?


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Quick question- can the non-PWM Helix fans be speed moderated with a fan controller without issue?


you need to use a voltage based fan controller to do so. I have my 2x 3pin GTs connected to a fan controller.

any 3 pin fan connected to the PWM splitter will not be controlled and run at a full 12v (by design).


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vash101*
> 
> In the TTL review he said he used the splitter without it hooked to the board and also tried it hooked straight to the power supply. He said it gave the same result. So unless something doesn't work right without being hooked to PWM what did he do wrong other than not test the ability to turn stuff down.


Yes, he does say all of that, but unlike any of the other reviews that he's done for CPU coolers we have no real-time testing results. He also never once showed us on camera how it was connected and that's why I said that we don't know how he actually "maxed everything" during his testing.


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Yes, he does say all of that, but unlike any of the other reviews that he's done for CPU coolers we have no real-time testing results. He also never once showed us on camera how it was connected and that's why I said that we don't know how he actually "maxed everything" during his testing.


Quote:


> In all of the H220 tests both the pump and the fans were run @12v.


http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/swiftech_h220_aio_review/2

Sounds like everything straight to molex.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> you need to use a voltage based fan controller to do so. I have my 2x 3pin GTs connected to a fan controller.
> 
> any 3 pin fan connected to the PWM splitter will not be controlled and run at a full 12v (by design).


Yeah I get that about the splitter, just wanted to check about using my 6 non-PWM Helixes on my case's FC. I don't want to turn them down thinking they're at 75% and have them at 33%


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/cases_cooling/swiftech_h220_aio_review/2
> 
> Sounds like everything straight to molex.


Methinks that when a PWM fan is connected without any pwm signal it won't go at full blast...


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vash101*
> 
> In the TTL review he said he used the splitter without it hooked to the board and also tried it hooked straight to the power supply. He said it gave the same result. So unless something doesn't work right without being hooked to PWM what did he do wrong other than not test the ability to turn stuff down.


He lied.

There is NO way correctly configured H220 would perform in any scenario 20C worse than an H100i. The thermodynamics and physics of the systems guarantee it can't happen.


----------



## ez12a

Installation/experience video posted:


----------



## Vash101

TTL had less than 4c between them. Not 20c. Again I ask if how he says he hooked it up (and I see no reason for him to lie) what did he do wrong? Do the swiftec fans not run full when hooked to 12 volts?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vash101*
> 
> TTL had less than 4c between them. Not 20c. Again I ask if how he says he hooked it up (and I see no reason for him to lie) what did he do wrong? Do the swiftec fans not run full when hooked to 12 volts?


A PWM fan hooked up to a molex adapter won't be getting a PWM signal, and therefor will not run full speed.


----------



## jprovido

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> A PWM fan hooked up to a molex adapter won't be getting a PWM signal, and therefor will not run full speed.


huh? wouldn't any fan hooked into a molex (12v) will run at full speed?? this doesn't make sense to me. what are you guys talking about btw TTL is tinytomlogan right?


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> Methinks that when a PWM fan is connected without any pwm signal it won't go at full blast...


it depends on the device. Our PWM Helix and our PWM pump(s) are designed to run at full speed whenever the 4th pin is NOT connected.

obviously that's assuming you are connecting it to "something" that is supplying 12V.

Some MB with 3-pin header have built-in voltage regulation, so if it's currently set to 9V for example, then connecting a PWM helix will not result in full speed - not because PWM isn't connected but because it's not getting 12V...

Hope that helps.


----------



## JackieTran

How is the new coolant and gunking?

And linus said something about filling the kit with some vacuum thing. Is that true and can you elaborate on what it is


----------



## stephenm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> How is the new coolant and gunking?
> 
> And linus said something about filling the kit with some vacuum thing. Is that true and can you elaborate on what it is


Vacuum is part of the process we use to fill coolant without any air bubble.


----------



## TeeBlack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> yep realise its expandable which is a plus
> 
> but couldnt push pull the h220 in my storm trooper because of the handle if i put it in the top of the case--though dremel comes to mind


you can mount it at the bottom if you remove one of the hdd cages


----------



## msgclb

I test fitted my H220 in my HAF 922 case in the normal 240 position using an old MSI AMD motherboard with memory to show that it can be done.

I was going to install the H220 with the tubing to the rear of my HAF 922 case but had the screws tight before realizing my error.
The memory retaining clips can only be opened part way but is enough to remove and install memory at least on this motherboard.



I next install my H220 in the same orientation about 1 inch forward. In the process I slightly nicked the fins so to hopefully keep that from happening again I used a pair of grills.



Finally, here's how I screwed the fans to the top of the HAF 922 case.



I won't be able to do a permanent install until tomorrow at about this time.
I actually like the tubing of the H220 at the front of the case so I plan to use this orientation with my Sabertooth motherboard if possible.


----------



## TeeBlack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SDelong*
> 
> Just ordered one of these today from FrozenCPU. Along with 4x Cooljag Everflow 120mm x 32mm PWM Fan (R121232BUAF). Anyone know if this will be a good combo or if these fans are good in general?


ive used the 25mm Evercool fans on an Asetek 570LX (same as the Water 2.0 Extreme) they worked great but at full speed they are loud.


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Vacuum is part of the process we use to fill coolant without any air bubble.


Are you saying that if we expanded on this and put another rad/gpu block in, that it would perform less than optimally because of the not being "vacuum sealed"? Any way to achieve this at home?


----------



## JackieTran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Vacuum is part of the process we use to fill coolant without any air bubble.


How does it work? And how is this new coolant with gunking?


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *stephenm*
> 
> Vacuum is part of the process we use to fill coolant without any air bubble.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> Are you saying that if we expanded on this and put another rad/gpu block in, that it would perform less than optimally because of the not being "vacuum sealed"? Any way to achieve this at home?


That is exactly my question too.
Since the H220 is designed to be expanded, or modified to change tubing, how much performance/quietness do we lose since we can't do that process at home?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> How does it work? And how is this new coolant with gunking?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phishy714*
> 
> Are you saying that if we expanded on this and put another rad/gpu block in, that it would perform less than optimally because of the not being "vacuum sealed"? Any way to achieve this at home?


Vacuum filling is only necessary from the factory to keep air out of the loop so the cooler as a clc can be mounted in any orientation, including those that make the integrated reservoir useless, like upside down. As long as you have enough liquid in the loop that all the air is trapped in the reservoir, you won't have any issues.


----------



## JackieTran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> That is exactly my question too.
> Since the H220 is designed to be expanded, or modified to change tubing, how much performance/quietness do we lose since we can't do that process at home?


This is me guessing but, vacuuming just speeds the process of taking out airbubbles. I think we can do it manually.
... but im still interested in gunking* and the process of vacuuming*


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TeeBlack*
> 
> you can mount it at the bottom if you remove one of the hdd cages


could be wrong as havent checked carefully

but to mount it at the bottom i might have to remove a hard drive cage and the ssd cage and the drawer

and not too keen on mounting it on the bottom as theres not much clearance at all from the bottom to the carpet to allow really good airflow


----------



## Dmz96

I posted this in the owner's club, but I'll put it here to:

What is the width of the cpu block, just the center square, not including the mobo mounting system? I already found the height, 56mm. Here's a pic for clarity:


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> This is me guessing but, vacuuming just speeds the process of taking out airbubbles. I think we can do it manually.
> ... but im still interested in gunking* and the process of vacuuming*


That's exactly right. We use our vacuum process because these kits need to be filled and bled as quickly as possible. You will achieve the same result by properly bleeding your kit at home, it will just take you more time.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dmz96*
> 
> I posted this in the owner's club, but I'll put it here to:
> 
> What is the width of the cpu block, just the center square, not including the mobo mounting system? I already found the height, 56mm. Here's a pic for clarity:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


It's 62mm wide.


----------



## Faithh

Well just a question to the owners of the H220, is the pump loud at 3000rpm without fans? Also if I replace the rad, can I just use a nonL shape rad without a reservoir built in? So I just can fill it with one of the 4 ports?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faithh*
> 
> Well just a question to the owners of the H220, is the pump loud at 3000rpm without fans? Also if I replace the rad, can I just use a nonL shape rad without a reservoir built in? So I just can fill it with one of the 4 ports?


If you replace the rad, you will still need a reservoir for the fluid to store.


----------



## BramSLI1

Just to let everyone here know, Gabe and I just finished shooting the expansion video. In this video we demonstrate how to properly add a water cooled GPU to your loop.


----------



## psikeiro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Just to let everyone here know, Gabe and I just finished shooting the expansion video. In this video we demonstrate how to properly add a water cooled GPU to your loop.


quit teasing and link it, please.


----------



## TUDJ

Please play nice, debate is fine (and encouraged) but let's not resort to personal attacks. Please also remember any political discussion of any kind is not allowed.

Thanks


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> quit teasing and link it, please.


Gabe is still in the process of editing it and it will be up on our Facebook page and the home page of our website shortly.


----------



## cashback

Just finished installing my H220, and running a few synthetic tests. I must say I am thoroughly impressed, the install was a breeze and the performance is amazing. Thanks to everyone at swiftech!


----------



## Avonosac

RAGE. I bought this thing as soon as it was for sale and I still don't have it.

GRRRRRRRR.


----------



## Faithh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> If you replace the rad, you will still need a reservoir for the fluid to store.


Uh? If you have a radiator with 2 ports, you need a reservoir right? But if you have a radiator with 4 ports but only using 2 of them because I'm only going to cool my cpu, I can use one of the two free ports to fill the loop right?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faithh*
> 
> Uh? If you have a radiator with 2 ports, you need a reservoir right? But if you have a radiator with 4 ports but only using 2 of them because I'm only going to cool my cpu, I can use one of the two free ports to fill the loop right?


Yes, all you're going to need to do is add a fill port by attaching some tubing to the port and then just put a fill port fitting on the end of it. Pretty simple.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faithh*
> 
> Uh? If you have a radiator with 2 ports, you need a reservoir right? But if you have a radiator with 4 ports but only using 2 of them because I'm only going to cool my cpu, I can use one of the two free ports to fill the loop right?


you will have trouble bleeding, as soon as you turn the pump on and water gets to the open port it will take the route of least resistance, right out the open port, if you seal the port b4 turning pump on air has nowhere to exscape


----------



## Faithh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Yes, all you're going to need to do is add a fill port by attaching some tubing to the port and then just put a fill port fitting on the end of it. Pretty simple.


Thanks. Should this pump be capable of running this radiator at 2000rpm? http://www.alphacool.com/product_info.php/info/p1206_Alphacool-NexXxoS-Monsta-360---White-Special-Edition-.html


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faithh*
> 
> Thanks. Should this pump be capable of running this radiator at 2000rpm? http://www.alphacool.com/product_info.php/info/p1206_Alphacool-NexXxoS-Monsta-360---White-Special-Edition-.html


Honestly I really don't know enough about Alphacool products to give you an educated answer. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't though.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faithh*
> 
> Thanks. Should this pump be capable of running this radiator at 2000rpm? http://www.alphacool.com/product_info.php/info/p1206_Alphacool-NexXxoS-Monsta-360---White-Special-Edition-.html


If your intending not using the rad that comes with the h220 why not get Swiftech Apogee Drive II CPU Waterblock with PWM Pump seems cheaper idea and I believe a better pump (bram will correct me if I'm wrong


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> If your intending not using the rad that comes with the h220 why not get Swiftech Apogee Drive II CPU Waterblock with PWM Pump seems cheaper idea and I believe a better pump (bram will correct me if I'm wrong


Greenback isn't too far off. The APD II drive with the pump is just a little more expensive than our H220 kit. The APD II does come with a stronger pump that will give you more options for expansion of your loop.


----------



## MadGoat

Loving it, thanks swiftech!


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MadGoat*
> 
> Loving it, thanks swiftech!


Good to see you here MadGoat and I'm glad you love our new kit!


----------



## [email protected]

New Video Posted: Adding A Liquid Cooled Graphics Card to the H220 CPU cooler

Do not hesitate to post your critiques. This is our first full-length in-house produced presentation.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> New Video Posted: Adding A Liquid Cooled Graphics Card to the H220 CPU cooler
> 
> Do not hesitate to post your critiques. This is our first full-length in-house produced presentation.


sweet!

someone got an email @ 2:34 lol


----------



## Faithh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Honestly I really don't know enough about Alphacool products to give you an educated answer. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't though.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Greenback isn't too far off. The APD II drive with the pump is just a little more expensive than our H220 kit. The APD II does come with a stronger pump that will give you more options for expansion of your loop.


Doesn't a larger or thicker radiator require more water or more pressure? I'm kinda new to WC or about to be a newbie.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faithh*
> 
> Doesn't a larger or thicker radiator require more water or more pressure? I'm kinda new to WC or about to be a newbie.


I would love to be able to answer your question adequately, but unfortunately I don't really have the requisite knowledge to do so. If you PM me I can ask Stephen on Monday to answer your question for you. He is much more knowledgeable about such things and will be able to give you a much more informed answer.


----------



## RX7-2nr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> there's not a lot of space, i'd guesstimate about a mm. It's really slim and you definitely cant do push/pull without modification.
> 
> edit: took another look, the top of the 8 pin clip is barely touching the rad, so there's really not a lot of clearance. Best I can say is look to see if people fit a h100 or h100i into the same case and if they can and have just enough room, you should hopefully be ok.
> 
> an update after an hour of prime 95:
> 
> 
> this thing is not getting hotter than 68C.


Wow. Im ordering this. 68c on a near 1.37 volt i7 with hyperthreading on? Yes plz!!!!!!!!! I was getting over 80C max when I had my CPU at 4.4ghz and 1.33v, with hyperthreading off as well.


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> I set each set of fans at 1350 rpm because I don't like noise. Both sets of fans were within a margin of testing error within each other, but the Noctua were definitely quieter. I will be testing the H220 fans at that rpm also to compare. As far as I am concerned, if the H220 performs the same as the H100i, then it wins because it can be expanded. If it performs better, that is just icing on the cake.
> 
> As an aside, I don't pay any attention to test results at max settings because I won't run them that way. I also put zero significance in tests that show 1 to 2c difference between two products. There are way to may variables that can change results by that much randomly. So while I can't tell anyone who like max fan speed much, I will be able to tell you guys how the H220 compares at quite fan speeds. Just waiting for UPS late today.


This is what I agree with, comparing at a real world noise level, and knowing there is a margin for error that can not be controlled. I have started my review and did all the testing for the other coolers in my test, just waiting for the H220 to get here.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> New Video Posted: Adding A Liquid Cooled Graphics Card to the H220 CPU cooler
> 
> Do not hesitate to post your critiques. This is our first full-length in-house produced presentation.


One thing, l would tell people to remove the fans when draining and probably filling so they dont accidentally spill on them


----------



## circeseye

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> New Video Posted: Adding A Liquid Cooled Graphics Card to the H220 CPU cooler
> 
> Do not hesitate to post your critiques. This is our first full-length in-house produced presentation.


thank you guys for the video


----------



## CTM Audi

Is there a review yet (other then the one on XS) where a video card has been tested with just the stock rad? Still want to see how much it effects CPU temps of an OCed CPU.


----------



## msgclb

After looking at your video I'm considering switching rigs for my H220 install.

Looking at the Swiftech home page I see you have the HydrX PM 2 coolant but I can't find any matching H220 tubing.

Do you have any idea when you will receive tubing?

I'm sure I can use your black G1/4 3/8" barbs and I have some of your worm drive clamps for 1/2" ID Tubing that says it has a clamping range from 5/8" to 3/4" OD.

Will they work with 5/8" OD tubing or will I need some different clamps?

For the record I don't want to use compression fittings.


----------



## psikeiro

http://imgur.com/a/qUJsH

Just got it earlier today, I might be adding the 7950s to it soonish, don't know yet, tubing will be fixed to look better probably this weekend once I get to sleeving this new PSU.


----------



## bencher

Nice video


----------



## Mega Man

1 complete swiftech design ( really did we expect less from the best in the business????
2 pump has 60k mbf ... i mean 6years??? amazing
3 based off apogee xt block

how does it work

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/01/27/swiftech-h220-prefilled-2x120mm-water-cooling-kit/
pics and testing, great analysis

cant wait till they release just the pump with a stand alone pump top.... ill be giving swiftech some business then as well


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> Is there a review yet (other then the one on XS) where a video card has been tested with just the stock rad? Still want to see how much it effects CPU temps of an OCed CPU.


This is the only one I've seen with a GPU added to H220.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *msgclb*
> 
> After looking at your video I'm considering switching rigs for my H220 install.
> 
> Looking at the Swiftech home page I see you have the HydrX PM 2 coolant but I can't find any matching H220 tubing.
> Do you have any idea when you will receive tubing?
> 
> I'm sure I can use your black G1/4 3/8" barbs and I have some of your worm drive clamps for 1/2" ID Tubing that says it has a clamping range from 5/8" to 3/4" OD.
> Will they work with 5/8" OD tubing or will I need some different clamps?
> For the record I don't want to use compression fittings.


I believe that we received the tubing, but we haven't put it on the website yet for purchase yet. I would think it'll be available either Monday or Tuesday of next week.


----------



## RX7-2nr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *psikeiro*
> 
> http://imgur.com/a/qUJsH
> 
> Just got it earlier today, I might be adding the 7950s to it soonish, don't know yet, tubing will be fixed to look better probably this weekend once I get to sleeving this new PSU.


Double Windforce action, hotness.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> If you replace the rad, you will still need a reservoir for the fluid to store.


Not really. You can simply use a fillport... which is a T line with an empy tubing that is sealed and you use to fill your loop. This way the air in your loop has somewhere to go.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faithh*
> 
> Uh? If you have a radiator with 2 ports, you need a reservoir right? But if you have a radiator with 4 ports but only using 2 of them because I'm only going to cool my cpu, I can use one of the two free ports to fill the loop right?


Its the same. If your radiator has only 2 ports you can use a splitter to fill it... the thing is, no matter the ports you have, you need to steal the port you use to fill it before turning on the pump or you will have a waterfall









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Faithh*
> 
> Doesn't a larger or thicker radiator require more water or more pressure? I'm kinda new to WC or about to be a newbie.


Bigger radiator doesn't mean more restriction. Restriction comes on the internal design of the rad and is not something that comes straight with the size. Still, rads barely scale with more flow so this is a non issue... and also, blocks today have less restriction which means that this problem should bother you a lot less.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> Is there a review yet (other then the one on XS) where a video card has been tested with just the stock rad? Still want to see how much it effects CPU temps of an OCed CPU.


It all depends on how you use your computer. If you load your gpu but your cpu sits idle, temperatures shouldn't bother you. If you load both mildly, temperatures should be ok... but if you load both somehow (Battlefield 3 comes to mind) your temperatures won't get too happy, although using more powerful fans will fix that.

Still, if you feel your temperatures while benching Prime 95 or some similar benchmark are 5ºC or more into the safe zone, adding a gpu won't hurt anything, unless you use both gpu and cpu for folding.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mega Man*
> 
> 1 complete swiftech design ( really did we expect less from the best in the business????
> 2 pump has 60k mbf ... i mean 6years??? amazing
> 3 based off apogee xt block
> 
> how does it work
> 
> http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/01/27/swiftech-h220-prefilled-2x120mm-water-cooling-kit/
> pics and testing, great analysis
> 
> cant wait till they release just the pump with a stand alone pump top.... ill be giving swiftech some business then as well


All great points, except the block is based off the newer Apogee HD, not the XT







.


----------



## ghjjf

so the stock rad and a 60mm thick 240mm rad should completely take care of temps on a oc'd 2500k and 670 right? right now on air i'm like 70c on the cpu and 80c gpu at 100% fan and 20c ambient, i'm hoping two 240mm rads will significantly lower those temps

i'm also wondering if the 80mm thick monster rads are a significant performance increase over the standard rads. in my arc midi r2, i can fit very thick rads, but i can't add ones bigger than 240mm


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> This is the only one I've seen with a GPU added to H220.


Thats the one from the guy on XS who had some weird results after adding the GPU and his temps went down.

http://www.xcpus.com/reviews/swiftech-h220-with-gpu-loop-added
I did find that, which is about what I was thinking it would be. With a card added, you would only be looking at a mild overclock on the CPU (depending on CPU etc..) and what you are doing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghjjf*
> 
> so the stock rad and a 60mm thick 240mm rad should completely take care of temps on a oc'd 2500k and 670 right? right now on air i'm like 70c on the cpu and 80c gpu at 100% fan and 20c ambient, i'm hoping two 240mm rads will significantly lower those temps
> 
> i'm also wondering if the 80mm thick monster rads are a significant performance increase over the standard rads. in my arc midi r2, i can fit very thick rads, but i can't add ones bigger than 240mm


Assuming you want reasonably quiet fans, In real world use testing, there is only up to a 5C or so difference between the entry rads like the RS series, and the top rads like the RX/NexXos, and thats with 3x120s. Most are only a degree or two different from each other. Depends on the fans, system, load, etc... but I wouldnt put so much focus on how fat the rad is unless you are worried about fractions of a degree.

The cheapest of 240 rads with the stock H220 rad would be plenty even with low fan speeds for a rather cool CPU like the 2500K and one vid card.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghjjf*
> 
> so the stock rad and a 60mm thick 240mm rad should completely take care of temps on a oc'd 2500k and 670 right? right now on air i'm like 70c on the cpu and 80c gpu at 100% fan and 20c ambient, i'm hoping two 240mm rads will significantly lower those temps
> 
> i'm also wondering if the 80mm thick monster rads are a significant performance increase over the standard rads. in my arc midi r2, i can fit very thick rads, but i can't add ones bigger than 240mm


Thicker rads do not mean you will get better temps. You need fans in P/P with really good static pressure to be effective.
Not sure why your temps are so high in your case. I have the same one and my 3770k never goes over 60c.


----------



## ghjjf

thank you for the information - the temps are high because I have a voltage hungry 2500k with bad fans on a hyper 212+. the midi is actually not in use right now, I bought it to go along with the h220. the 670 is also oc'd with a terrible blower fan









I'm not worried about ~5c, so I won't bother paying the premium for the thicker rads.

thank you both


----------



## num1son

I reviewed the H220 for ThinkComputers.org and tested it fairly extensively(2 part review 2nd part coming out soon). Adding a second rad like the XSPC RX 240 is highly recommended if you want a GPU in the loop. Don't expect to be able to run a GPU in the loop with just the stock radiator, especially if you plan to overclock. There just isnt enough surface area to dissipate all that heat.


----------



## eoniverse

I just recieved my H220 this afternoon. Never used AIO water before. All I can say is wow!!! I'm still on am i7 920. Was running at 3.3 stable on air for the last year - but would be unstable anywhere over that. Decided to play around with the H220 'just to see'.

Now my case is currently completely open - no side and with 7 fans running and only one HDD. Been running Prime for 25 minutes (and surfing) . My cpu is at 3.990 GHz my temps are 52, 48, 51, and 47. Voltage is at 1.275.

My case is the switch 810. My motherboard is an Asrock x58 extreme. (Told you. Old) H220 installed on front bottom. Pushing air up through it.

Thrilled buying it!!

Was by far the eastiest heatsink I have ever attached to a cpu.


----------



## RX7-2nr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eoniverse*
> 
> I just recieved my H220 this afternoon. Never used AIO water before. All I can say is wow!!! I'm still on am i7 920. Was running at 3.3 stable on air for the last year - but would be unstable anywhere over that. Decided to play around with the H220 'just to see'.
> 
> Now my case is currently completely open - no side and with 7 fans running and only one HDD. Been running Prime for 25 minutes (and surfing) . My cpu is at 3.990 GHz my temps are 52, 48, 51, and 47. Voltage is at 1.275.
> 
> My case is the switch 810. My motherboard is an Asrock x58 extreme. (Told you. Old)
> 
> Thrilled buying it!!
> 
> Was by far the eastiest heatsink I have ever attached to a cpu.


That 52C is idle or full load stress testing?


----------



## CTM Audi

Which tubing route would you recommend, for the H220 rad/res at top? Arc Midi R2, front 240 rad (the blue route would be with a EX240 crossflow, red/green with RS240/MCR-220). Would like to keep pump turned down low as possible.

Blue route water starts high, goes low, second rad before GPU, then comes back up (assuming the crossflow rad is water going from top to bottom only). IMO would look best too.
Red route water starts high, goes low, then high, second rad before GPU, then low, then high again. IMO would look second best. Cheaper rad then crossflow.
Green route starts high, goes straight down, no rad between CPU and GPU, goes back up and down, then long way up again with the most tubing used. IMO worst looking. Cheaper rad then crossflow.

Leaning towards blue as it should have the least amount of tubing, and a straight down/up path.


----------



## starships

Has it been confirmed that the Arc Midi R2 fits the H220 in the top? What about the Define R4? I'm putting together a build for a friend and I'm looking at these two cases for him. They're basically the same case except the R4 has the silence foam and the front panel correct? (edit: nvm just read up the differences between the two) Can they both fit a 280 in the front, or is it only 240? I'm assuming if a 280 does fit that the barbs would take up the bottom 5.25" bay.

Using the h220 to trick him into a full loop down the road







.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *starships*
> 
> Has it been confirmed that the Arc Midi R2 fits the H220 in the top? What about the Define R4? I'm putting together a build for a friend and I'm looking at these two cases for him. They're basically the same case except the R4 has the silence foam and the front panel correct? Can they both fit a 280 in the front, or is it only 240? I'm assuming if a 280 does fit that the barbs would take up the bottom 5.25" bay.
> 
> Using the h220 to trick him into a full loop down the road
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Arc Midi R2 already confirmed before launch. The 240 mounting is pushed towards the side and can fit P/P with 60mm rad.
240 & 280 can fit up front.


----------



## starships

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> Arc Midi R2 already confirmed before launch. The 240 mounting is pushed towards the side and can fit P/P with 60mm rad.
> 240 & 280 can fit up front.


Thanks, looks like AMR2 it is.


----------



## AdamMT

Yeah, I wouldn't recommend the R4 for this. I have one and an H220 (DOA, unfortunately). With my mobo (Sabertooth X79) the H220 does not fit with fans mounted. I will have to mount the fans on top. Would fit in the front, but only if you remove both drive cages. That would be fine if you only have SSDs, which can be mounted in back, but I also have a traditional HD so it's a no go.

I guess with some boards it's possible to do a top mount with the fans mounted below the rad. Bryan of Swiftech was able to manage it, and a reviewer even managed the recommended install with fans above the rad on an AMD board.


----------



## Tr4nc3f0rm3r

Well...not sure about the Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H ...but I just got the Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD4H and it definitely does not fit. So disappointed. That damn heatsink at the top...if I had 2 more mm....


----------



## vladphotopro

I guess I'm not the only one. H220 does not fit on ASUS Crosshair V Formula Z. It ether pushes against side heatsink, or memory, with bracket or plastic fitting or both. It looks like I will be taking out memory and grinding down bracket on the pump to make it fit.
Does anyone else have fitment problems and any solutions?


----------



## kbc8090

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tr4nc3f0rm3r*
> 
> Well...not sure about the Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H ...but I just got the Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD4H and it definitely does not fit. So disappointed. That damn heatsink at the top...if I had 2 more mm....


In what case, the Arc Midi R2?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vladphotopro*
> 
> I guess I'm not the only one. H220 does not fit on ASUS Crosshair V Formula Z. It ether pushes against side heatsink, or memory, with bracket or plastic fitting or both. It looks like I will be taking out memory and grinding down bracket on the pump to make it fit.
> Does anyone else have fitment problems and any solutions?


It should fit, you can rotate the pump to have the pipes going top down.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tr4nc3f0rm3r*
> 
> Well...not sure about the Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD5H ...but I just got the Gigabyte GA-Z77X-UD4H and it definitely does not fit. So disappointed. That damn heatsink at the top...if I had 2 more mm....


Are you talking about Define R4 or the mobo?

The Arc Midi R2 will fit, and has no issue with clearance.


----------



## Mega Man

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> All great points, except the block is based off the newer Apogee HD, not the XT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


woops thanks ! i always get them\ confused


----------



## JackieTran

I remember stephen saying that you could separate the pump from the waterblock. If I do this, will I need to buy a new housing for the waterblock or both?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> I remember stephen saying that you could separate the pump from the waterblock. If I do this, will I need to buy a new housing for the waterblock or both?


I'm not sure why you'd want to do this? I can ask Stephen for clarification on Monday though. Just send me a PM to remind me.


----------



## eoniverse

messed up reply. Can mods delete?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I'm not sure why you'd want to do this? I can ask Stephen for clarification on Monday though. Just send me a PM to remind me.


I believe Stephen mentioned in an earlier post that Swiftech currently doesn't have a pump top to fit the new pump, should it be pulled from the block. Like the MCP35X, a pumptop would be required.


----------



## eoniverse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RX7-2nr*
> 
> That 52C is idle or full load stress testing?


Full load stressing for 45 minutes on Prime. CPU's monitored at 100%. But remember....case was wide open. No doors and 7 fans running. Idle was somwhere in the low mid 30's. Don't remember right off. Sorry about delay replying. I needed sleep and just finished installing the accessories and wire management. My psu wires are too short (Seasonic x-1250). Need to order atx extension and pwm 4 prong extensions. The H220 just barely has the right tube length to fit at the bottom front with the video card in my lowest slot on the x-58 extreme. Also at first I could not secure it to the bottom as screws would not line up due to size of psu and wires coming out horizonta from psul. It was lightly wedged against the lower front fan housing and the psu wiring. I finally decided to secure it with a small piece of strapping and bolted into the case fan hole through one fan. But fyi: it had no rattle even when it was not bolted. Mounting the cooler to the top of the case would be so much easier but I did not want it there. Not moving at all now.

Love the Switch 810's cable management!!!


----------



## JackieTran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I'm not sure why you'd want to do this? I can ask Stephen for clarification on Monday though. Just send me a PM to remind me.


I prefer the look of custom built watercooled systems. If I were to expand it, i'd like to some sort of plexi waterblock top and an external res


----------



## MerkageTurk

yey im running my 2500k at 5ghz with 1.35v with temp of 46c


----------



## TheGovernment

Damn, when is NCIX going to get these in? They are always the last to get anything!!! I think for kicks, I may get 3 and cool some GPU's just for fun!


----------



## spikexp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheGovernment*
> 
> Damn, when is NCIX going to get these in?


It's written on the product page at Ncix.


----------



## TheGovernment

I know but they haven't shipped yet. I was one of the first to get my pre-order in.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheGovernment*
> 
> I know but they haven't shipped yet. I was one of the first to get my pre-order in.


It says exactly when they are getting some. So it wont ship till they have it.
http://www.ncix.ca/products/?sku=79583


----------



## TheGovernment

They only put that up a day or 2 ago and it's been pushed back from this week already. They still figure they will be shipping the first pre-orders out this week, I just talked to them yesterday afternoon. Just like the titan, they always seem to be a few days or a week behind!


----------



## TeeBlack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> could be wrong as havent checked carefully
> 
> but to mount it at the bottom i might have to remove a hard drive cage and the ssd cage and the drawer
> 
> and not too keen on mounting it on the bottom as theres not much clearance at all from the bottom to the carpet to allow really good airflow


if you have it on carpet then i suggest not putting it at the bottom then, at the top you are limited to 3 fans due the handle blocking the 4 fan mount. you could get an adapter and put your ssd and hdd in the 5.25 bay and mount the h220 in the front by removing the hdd cages.


----------



## farlopa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vladphotopro*
> 
> I guess I'm not the only one. H220 does not fit on ASUS Crosshair V Formula Z. It ether pushes against side heatsink, or memory, with bracket or plastic fitting or both. It looks like I will be taking out memory and grinding down bracket on the pump to make it fit.
> Does anyone else have fitment problems and any solutions?


Does anyone have problems fitting h220 in asus p9x79 pro? and asus rampage IV?


----------



## RX7-2nr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eoniverse*
> 
> Full load stressing for 45 minutes on Prime. CPU's monitored at 100%. But remember....case was wide open. No doors and 7 fans running. Idle was somwhere in the low mid 30's. Don't remember right off. Sorry about delay replying. I needed sleep and just finished installing the accessories and wire management. My psu wires are too short (Seasonic x-1250). Need to order atx extension and pwm 4 prong extensions. The H220 just barely has the right tube length to fit at the bottom front with the video card in my lowest slot on the x-58 extreme. Also at first I could not secure it to the bottom as screws would not line up due to size of psu and wires coming out horizonta from psul. It was lightly wedged against the lower front fan housing and the psu wiring. I finally decided to secure it with a small piece of strapping and bolted into the case fan hole through one fan. But fyi: it had no rattle even when it was not bolted. Mounting the cooler to the top of the case would be so much easier but I did not want it there. Not moving at all now.
> 
> Love the Switch 810's cable management!!!


Good stuff. Thanks for the info.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farlopa*
> 
> Does anyone have problems fitting h220 in asus p9x79 pro? and asus rampage IV?


Fits fine on my Rampage IV Gene if that helps.


----------



## eoniverse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RX7-2nr*
> 
> Good stuff. Thanks for the info.


Temps have climbed with the case fully loaded and closed. Running 5HDD and 1 BluRay, 9 fans: 7 140mm and 2 120mm. 5 pci slots occupied. Prime for 25 minutes at 4GHz = 56, 54, 56, 53.

All I can add is the H220 is a fine purchase. Later.


----------



## Tr4nc3f0rm3r

Probably should have been more clear. I think it fits in the Define R4 just fine (my case). But since I also have the UD4H, there is a heatsink at the top of that MOBO that gets in the way. Gonna have to return the H220. Damn.


----------



## colforbin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Yeah, I wouldn't recommend the R4 for this. I have one and an H220 (DOA, unfortunately). With my mobo (Sabertooth X79) the H220 does not fit with fans mounted. I will have to mount the fans on top. Would fit in the front, but only if you remove both drive cages. That would be fine if you only have SSDs, which can be mounted in back, but I also have a traditional HD so it's a no go.
> 
> I guess with some boards it's possible to do a top mount with the fans mounted below the rad. Bryan of Swiftech was able to manage it, and a reviewer even managed the recommended install with fans above the rad on an AMD board.


Mine fit perfectly in my R4 with no problem. I had adjust the pump north/south for RAM issues.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tr4nc3f0rm3r*
> 
> Probably should have been more clear. I think it fits in the Define R4 just fine (my case). But since I also have the UD4H, there is a heatsink at the top of that MOBO that gets in the way. Gonna have to return the H220. Damn.


Did you look to see if you can offset the H220 by mounting it in different holes like the Arc Midi?


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *num1son*
> 
> I reviewed the H220 for ThinkComputers.org and tested it fairly extensively(2 part review 2nd part coming out soon). Adding a second rad like the XSPC RX 240 is highly recommended if you want a GPU in the loop. Don't expect to be able to run a GPU in the loop with just the stock radiator, especially if you plan to overclock. There just isnt enough surface area to dissipate all that heat.


So you must be Derrick then, right?

I liked the approach you took in your review (the overclocker point of view), it departs from the mere enumeration of temps, and focuses on purpose. Well done.

But I am a bit surprised by the opinion you are expressing here above. As you may know, we ran TWO GTX 680's in SLI at CES while also cooling the Asus Maximus V Chipset, with just one radiator.

One hint as to what point of view you are coming from is in your "especially if you overclock" remark. And I will grant you that for extreme overclocking, a single dual 120mm radiator cooling CPU and GPU might not be the optimum setup, however this is strictly extreme overclocking.

So I do believe that your remark should be thoroughly qualified, and here are my comments in this respect.

For starters, the vast majority of users is not composed of extreme overclockers.

Secondly, there is plenty enough surface area to cool a CPU and a GPU in the loop (even two GPU's for that matter), in an everyday use environment and especially with the type of CPU overclock that the majority of users will apply (the point and click type).

Here is why:

1/ Most applications only place load on either the CPU or the GPU, not on both. So when you are running a CPU intensive app, your GPU's are a t idle. Therefore all the cooling capacity of your rad is dedicated to CPU, and running GPU's in the loop will only cost a moderate rise in coolant temp due to the moderate GPU load (about 50 Watts per GPU at iddle or less depending on brand etc..).

2/ In the case of GPU intensive apps, Playing a game for example, it doesn't load your CPU. So when you are playing Crysis or what have you, the radiator is only busy cooling the GPU(s), and there's plenty of head room to do that at substantially lower temps that stock.

3/ Regarding item 2 above and with respect to graphics cooling, another reason is that despite their very high thermal load, GPU's have a larger die surface area than CPU's. It results that the heat flux is much less concentrated than that of CPU's, and that's the reason why you see such lower temps in your liquid cooled GPU's (running in the 50's) than what you see with CPU cores (running in the 70's or higher).

So in real life what happens? You are running a game with your SLI rig, and your GPU(s) run in the high 50's. Problem? Not that I'm aware so far. Meanwhile, what happens on the CPU side? Your coolant temp has been rising because of the GPU load. So your CPU iddle temp has been rising. Problem for overclock? Not so either, since there is no load on it.

Now, I know that many reviewers will try to place load on both CPU and GPU at the same time (running prime and Furmark at the same time for example), and I've done it myself for testing purposes, but let's say it clearly here: this is not representative of everyday use.

Yet, we can still ask the question here, what will practically happen in such cases? Very simple: coolant temperature will rise substantially and CPU and GPU's temps will also rise accordingly. You may see you CPU cores running in the high 80's, and you GPU temps running the high 60's. If you have an extreme overclock, system stability might be compromised at that overclock level. So if your goal in life is to run Prime and Furmark on your computer all the time, AND you only use that single H220 radiator, then I guess you'll need to lower your CPU overclock and voltage (for example tuning down from 4.8 to 4.6 like I did) and system stability will be restored.

In conclusion, I would certainly not tell people that you can't run a GPU in the loop without adding a rad. *In fact I'd say exactly the opposite*: go ahead and add your liquid cooled graphics card to the loop, and see how it goes based on your own usage. I am willing to bet that in 90% of the cases, this will work out just fine. And for the 10% or so users who are dissatisfied with the results for whatever reason, I think there are more choices than just adding another rad, and these choices are based on the type of usage and personal goals/circumstances. At the one end of the spectrum, if budget is an issue and noise is not a grave concern, then you can try adding fans for push pull, or swap our fans for higher RPM and Static Pressure, and on the other end of the spectrum, say if budget is not an issue and noise IS a concern, then adding a radiator is indeed the route to take. The beauty of it all, is that the H220 allows you do choose, unlike most other AIO's out there.


----------



## Pure2sin

2 more days ugh!


----------



## vladphotopro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sp33d Junki3*
> 
> It should fit, you can rotate the pump to have the pipes going top down.


Thanks for suggestion, but it is not an option with AMD brackets, because one of them will be going right through the fitting. I considered it, but it would require cutting out !/4" chunk out of the adapter bracket around the fitting.
I ended up grinding one of the corners down to screw that holds adapter bracket and now it fits, but I have to now buy new memory kit to replace my 4 sticks with 2.


----------



## Scorpion667

I saw two pics in the thread with the h220 rad mounted at a lower level than the pump. I thought the res was supposed to be above the pump while it's running?


----------



## Dudewitbow

position only plays a roll in filling and using gravity to your advantage. thats about it,


----------



## justanoldman

Why exactly would a Swiftech employee recommend the Switch 810 case for the H220 in the bottom and a 360 rad at the top? It doesn't even come close to fitting. I am not sure if I will be keeping it at this point.


----------



## Scorpion667

Huh? There are three places top fit a 240 rad on the bottom of the switch 810, one of which is on the side of the HDD bay on the swivel mount (it has 120mm hole pattern). What are you trying to say?


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Huh? There are three places top fit a 240 rad on the bottom of the switch 810, one of which is on the side of the HDD bay on the swivel mount (it has 120mm hole pattern). What are you trying to say?


I am not sure what you mean, there is only one place to fit the H220 rad in the bottom of a Switch 810. The power supply is on the left, and there is room for 2 fan mounts on the right side of the bottom. The cutout for the fans that can attach to the front of the case prevent the H220 rad from fitting down there. We already have another member confirm that it doesn't fit and he just tied it down some how because the screw holes can't line up.


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> I saw two pics in the thread with the h220 rad mounted at a lower level than the pump. I thought the res was supposed to be above the pump while it's running?


The biggest reason, I think, is that if you didn't bleed your loop correctly, you might have an air bubble that would be very hard to get out if the pump is higher.


----------



## num1son

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *[email protected]*
> 
> So you must be Derrick then, right?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Snip!
> 
> 
> 
> I liked the approach you took in your review (the overclocker point of view), it departs from the mere enumeration of temps, and focuses on purpose. Well done.
> 
> But I am a bit surprised by the opinion you are expressing here above. As you may know, we ran TWO GTX 680's in SLI at CES while also cooling the Asus Maximus V Chipset, with just one radiator.
> 
> One hint as to what point of view you are coming from is in your "especially if you overclock" remark. And I will grant you that for extreme overclocking, a single dual 120mm radiator cooling CPU and GPU might not be the optimum setup, however this is strictly extreme overclocking.
> 
> So I do believe that your remark should be thoroughly qualified, and here are my comments in this respect.
> 
> For starters, the vast majority of users is not composed of extreme overclockers.
> 
> Secondly, there is plenty enough surface area to cool a CPU and a GPU in the loop (even two GPU's for that matter), in an everyday use environment and especially with the type of CPU overclock that the majority of users will apply (the point and click type).
> 
> Here is why:
> 
> 1/ Most applications only place load on either the CPU or the GPU, not on both. So when you are running a CPU intensive app, your GPU's are a t idle. Therefore all the cooling capacity of your rad is dedicated to CPU, and running GPU's in the loop will only cost a moderate rise in coolant temp due to the moderate GPU load (about 50 Watts per GPU at iddle or less depending on brand etc..).
> 
> 2/ In the case of GPU intensive apps, Playing a game for example, it doesn't load your CPU. So when you are playing Crysis or what have you, the radiator is only busy cooling the GPU(s), and there's plenty of head room to do that at substantially lower temps that stock.
> 
> 3/ Regarding item 2 above and with respect to graphics cooling, another reason is that despite their very high thermal load, GPU's have a larger die surface area than CPU's. It results that the heat flux is much less concentrated than that of CPU's, and that's the reason why you see such lower temps in your liquid cooled GPU's (running in the 50's) than what you see with CPU cores (running in the 70's or higher).
> 
> So in real life what happens? You are running a game with your SLI rig, and your GPU(s) run in the high 50's. Problem? Not that I'm aware so far. Meanwhile, what happens on the CPU side? Your coolant temp has been rising because of the GPU load. So your CPU iddle temp has been rising. Problem for overclock? Not so either, since there is no load on it.
> 
> Now, I know that many reviewers will try to place load on both CPU and GPU at the same time (running prime and Furmark at the same time for example), and I've done it myself for testing purposes, but let's say it clearly here: this is not representative of everyday use.
> 
> Yet, we can still ask the question here, what will practically happen in such cases? Very simple: coolant temperature will rise substantially and CPU and GPU's temps will also rise accordingly. You may see you CPU cores running in the high 80's, and you GPU temps running the high 60's. If you have an extreme overclock, system stability might be compromised at that overclock level. So if your goal in life is to run Prime and Furmark on your computer all the time, AND you only use that single H220 radiator, then I guess you'll need to lower your CPU overclock and voltage (for example tuning down from 4.8 to 4.6 like I did) and system stability will be restored.
> 
> In conclusion, I would certainly not tell people that you can't run a GPU in the loop without adding a rad. *In fact I'd say exactly the opposite*: go ahead and add your liquid cooled graphics card to the loop, and see how it goes based on your own usage. I am willing to bet that in 90% of the cases, this will work out just fine. And for the 10% or so users who are dissatisfied with the results for whatever reason, I think there are more choices than just adding another rad, and these choices are based on the type of usage and personal goals/circumstances. At the one end of the spectrum, if budget is an issue and noise is not a grave concern, then you can try adding fans for push pull, or swap our fans for higher RPM and Static Pressure, and on the other end of the spectrum, say if budget is not an issue and noise IS a concern, then adding a radiator is indeed the route to take. The beauty of it all, is that the H220 allows you do choose, unlike most other AIO's out there.


First thanks for appreciating the way that I review, I write from the place that I come from. Practical application (gaming, etc.) and overclocking.

I agree with most of what you have to say, and I wont waste time arguing simple points. But I feel that I should make myself clear. By adding a GPU to the loop what was previously a stable overclock on the CPU could become unstable (even gaming temps will do this, claiming that a CPU is not used during gaming...hugh?). There is not an unlimited amount of cooling capacity in the loop, and adding to it will bring your temps up one way or another. You now have a choice to ether lower your overclock or to cool the loop further. The best solution in my opinion is to add another radiator. Even if 90% of users are not extreme they certainly aren't buying an H220 and a GPU block because you want average temperatures and overclocks.

That is all I have to say, my extended review will be up next week. It is still an excellent product either way, that is why I scored it at 10/10.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> I am not sure what you mean, there is only one place to fit the H220 rad in the bottom of a Switch 810. The power supply is on the left, and there is room for 2 fan mounts on the right side of the bottom. The cutout for the fans that can attach to the front of the case prevent the H220 rad from fitting down there. We already have another member confirm that it doesn't fit and he just tied it down some how because the screw holes can't line up.


Your previous post states it doesn't even come close to fitting. Do you mean as far as the tube length for it to reach all the way to the front bottom of the switch 810?


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Your previous post states it doesn't even come close to fitting. Do you mean as far as the tube length for it to reach all the way to the front bottom of the switch 810?


Sorry, to be more clear, there is no possible way to attach the rad of the H220 to the bottom of the Switch 810 using the screw holes. I guess if you just want to lay it down there and not attach it, you could do that.

Swiftech specifically told me it would fit before I bought it, that is why I am more than a little disappointed. It is not like I just hoped it would work, I have a whole series of emails specifically detailing putting the rad at the bottom of the case.


----------



## M3TAl

Seems to fit in a Switch 810 for Martin?


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eoniverse*
> 
> Full load stressing for 45 minutes on Prime. CPU's monitored at 100%. But remember....case was wide open. No doors and 7 fans running. Idle was somwhere in the low mid 30's. Don't remember right off. Sorry about delay replying. I needed sleep and just finished installing the accessories and wire management. My psu wires are too short (Seasonic x-1250). Need to order atx extension and pwm 4 prong extensions. The H220 just barely has the right tube length to fit at the bottom front with the video card in my lowest slot on the x-58 extreme. Also at first I could not secure it to the bottom as screws would not line up due to size of psu and wires coming out horizonta from psul. It was lightly wedged against the lower front fan housing and the psu wiring. I finally decided to secure it with a small piece of strapping and bolted into the case fan hole through one fan. But fyi: it had no rattle even when it was not bolted. Mounting the cooler to the top of the case would be so much easier but I did not want it there. Not moving at all now.
> 
> Love the Switch 810's cable management!!!


^ Here is the other member confirming that you cannot attach the rad to the bottom of a Switch 810 using the screw holes. You can find some way to rig it up I guess, but it is without question not compatible. It is not like we have a reason to make this stuff up. Swiftech said it would fit, and it doesn't.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Sorry, to be more clear, there is no possible way to attach the rad of the H220 to the bottom of the Switch 810 using the screw holes. I guess if you just want to lay it down there and not attach it, you could do that.
> 
> Swiftech specifically told me it would fit before I bought it, that is why I am more than a little disappointed. It is not like I just hoped it would work, I have a whole series of emails specifically detailing putting the rad at the bottom of the case.


you should watch the review on the 810 on oc3d tv on youtube show the rad options
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LHjJ8sPe_8


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Sorry, to be more clear, there is no possible way to attach the rad of the H220 to the bottom of the Switch 810 using the screw holes. I guess if you just want to lay it down there and not attach it, you could do that.
> 
> Swiftech specifically told me it would fit before I bought it, that is why I am more than a little disappointed. It is not like I just hoped it would work, I have a whole series of emails specifically detailing putting the rad at the bottom of the case.


I can fit two 120mm fans on the bottom right next to each other and the hole pattern is perfect. Seeing as how the rad sits up top of the fans (assuming push, or push pull) and more than enough room for the protruding built in res on the power supply side, I just don;t see how it would be a problem. It's not that I don't believe you, I'm just trying to understand because I was planning to use a 360 up top and the 240 at the bottom of my switch 810.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> I can fit two 120mm fans on the bottom right next to each other and the hole pattern is perfect. Seeing as how the rad sits up top of the fans (assuming push, or push pull) and more than enough room for the protruding built in res on the power supply side, I just don;t see how it would be a problem. It's not that I don't believe you, I'm just trying to understand because I was planning to use a 360 up top and the 240 at the bottom of my switch 810.


Look at where those two fans will fit in the bottom of the case. Now measure the distance from the right edge of the right most fan to the metal flange that is sort of U shaped - the cutout if for a fan on the front panel at the bottom of it. That meal flange is too close the right edge of your right most fan to fit. The H220 res sticks out another inch or so to the right of the fan. You also cannot remove the metal flange, I tried.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Look at where those two fans will fit in the bottom of the case. Now measure the distance from the right edge of the right most fan to the metal flange that is sort of U shaped - the cutout if for a fan on the front panel at the bottom of it. That meal flange is too close the right edge of your right most fan to fit. The H220 res sticks out another inch or so to the right of the fan. You also cannot remove the metal flange, I tried.


I gotcha now. Just had a brainfart I was thinking barbs on the front fan side and res on the PSU side but that makes no sense in terms of tubing length.
Mm, not happy about this, thanks for making me aware of the issue.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> I gotcha now. Just had a brainfart I was thinking barbs on the front fan side and res on the PSU side but that makes no sense in terms of tubing length.
> Mm, not happy about this, thanks for making me aware of the issue.


No problem. Working on a hard mod now, will let you know how it goes (as long as you don't care about your case warranty and putting a fan at the bottom of the front panel).


----------



## prava

I have no idea guys what the problem is.

a) Martin stated he is using his H220 (and RS240, and another kit) on the bottom of his Switch 810.

RS240:










http://martinsliquidlab.org/2013/02/16/xspc-raystorm-750-rs240-extreme-universal-cpu-water-cooling-kit/5/

b) A fellow OCN user posted this in the Switch 810 topic:










http://www.overclock.net/t/1209048/official-nzxt-switch-810-thread/7690


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Why exactly would a Swiftech employee recommend the Switch 810 case for the H220 in the bottom and a 360 rad at the top? It doesn't even come close to fitting. I am not sure if I will be keeping it at this point.


Hmm could you please save me some time in searching and show me where a Swiftech employee recommended this? We do show the H220 on our web site with a top install (http://www.swiftech.org/images/H220/NZXT-Switch-810.jpg) . From your experience, it seems obvious that it doesn't fit at the bottom, and I'd like to bring this up with whoever made that recommendation.

thanks!


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> I have no idea guys what the problem is.


It sounds as though the H220's reservoir is colliding with the front fan bracket. As well it sounds as though the tubing is not long enough to go around the GPU.


----------



## [email protected]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *num1son*
> 
> First thanks for appreciating the way that I review, I write from the place that I come from. Practical application (gaming, etc.) and overclocking.
> 
> I agree with most of what you have to say, and I wont waste time arguing simple points. But I feel that I should make myself clear. By adding a GPU to the loop what was previously a stable overclock on the CPU could become unstable (even gaming temps will do this, claiming that a CPU is not used during gaming...hugh?). There is not an unlimited amount of cooling capacity in the loop, and adding to it will bring your temps up one way or another. You now have a choice to ether lower your overclock or to cool the loop further. The best solution in my opinion is to add another radiator. Even if 90% of users are not extreme they certainly aren't buying an H220 and a GPU block because you want average temperatures and overclocks.
> 
> That is all I have to say, my extended review will be up next week. It is still an excellent product either way, that is why I scored it at 10/10.


Like you I have little time to continue a lengthy discussion about this. Just a couple of points:
I didn't say CPU is not used, that wouldn't be technically correct. But let me clarify nonetheless: when I say load, I mean 100% load. There is little load on CPU when you are playing a game (and that's how it should be, or what's the purpose of having dedicated graphics processors, right?)
Coming from a max overclock place, I don't disagree; but coming from an everyday use overclock, I have to disagree


----------



## Martinm210

Regarding the Switch 810 bottom 240 mount. It is true that you can not attach all your normal 8 screws, but you can attach two in the middle if you slide the rad to the left 15mm. You could drill holes to attach more if you wanted, but two is really plenty for holding the rad in place. Top mounted you can attached all 8 screws, but I think you'll generally get a degree or so better performance using bottom mount vs top.

This picture shows the general layout. The two holes holding the right fan in the middle will line up with the case holes:









The above was an attempt at trying pull, but push withfans on bottom is my preference as it seems to again yield just a hair better pefromance in trials testing.

So...it is "doable", no... not perfect for all 8 factory holes, but a 240 can certainly can fit down there and the tubes are just long enough on the H220 and if you remove the dust filter plenty of good cold ambient air flow. More importantly it will leave you with room to add a 360 rad up top later if you want.









I've played around with a lot of rad mounting options, and this bottom location is the best so far in terms of absolute performance and max noise reduction. The H220 will fit down there with two screws using the factory screws holes, or you can drill a few more if you want more...not a big deal. I was pretty happy just using two myself. Put a little foam tape on the fan corners to help decouple the rad/fans from the case, add a rubber washer to the two mounting screws and you can really make a nice vibration free mount that way. Just like pumps, sometimes more mounting screws will only transfer vibration noises more, why increase noise when you don't have to..my 2c


----------



## bencher

I am definitely gonna buy this cooler when I change my case.

I like the h100i also, but this is just a better innovation.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prava*
> 
> I have no idea guys what the problem is.


You have "no idea"?
I have no idea why you are posting pics of things that have nothing to do with the H220. I never said no rad would fit, I said the H220 rad would not fit with the screw holes because of the res to the right of the rad.

Seriously you guys crack me up. I am not posting to argue, I am posting to tell you as a matter of simple fact, it is non-debatable. Gabe will be happy to confirm that the Switch 810 is incompatible with the H220 on the bottom.


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> You have "no idea"?
> I have no idea why you are posting pics of things that have nothing to do with the H220. I never said no rad would fit, I said the H220 rad would not fit with the screw holes because of the res to the right of the rad.
> 
> Seriously you guys crack me up. I am not posting to argue, I am posting to tell you as a matter of simple fact, it is non-debatable. Gabe will be happy to confirm that the Switch 810 is incompatible with the H220 on the bottom.


Martin just showed it is very possible to put the h220 in the bottom of the Switch 810. Not a perfect situation, but I'd say it's better than a lot of other cases where you have to mount the fans outside.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> You have "no idea"?
> I have no idea why you are posting pics of things that have nothing to do with the H220. I never said no rad would fit, I said the H220 rad would not fit with the screw holes because of the res to the right of the rad.
> 
> Seriously you guys crack me up. I am not posting to argue, I am posting to tell you as a matter of simple fact, it is non-debatable. Gabe will be happy to confirm that the Switch 810 is incompatible with the H220 on the bottom.


Hey, I just showed my doubts because I've seen some builds with a dual rad on the bottom and Martin himself tested his H220 this way. It's not that I doubt you, but If I see some people's findings contradict each other I normally go with those that say and proof that it's possible









I didn't try to offend or anything









*@Martin*: thanks for chiming in. Astonishing work as always, can't wait to see your results on the H100i, specially on the noise side of the equations


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> I am definitely gonna buy this cooler when I change my case.
> 
> I like the h100i also, but this is just a better innovation.


Which case are you looking at getting?


----------



## justanoldman

I give up. You try to warn people ahead of time about an incompatibility and that a mod is needed, and it turns into this.

I have a very detailed string of emails with Swiftech that specifically states not only to place the rad of the H220 at the bottom of the Switch 810, but also which way to orient the fans. I did not own a case, I went out of my way to ask Swiftech which case to buy to handle the H220 rad at the bottom and 360 rad at the top. I was told by them to buy the 810 which I did. I realize you can mod the case to make it work, I was just disappointed that they would tell me to buy a case that is not directly compatible and a mod would be necessary. I could have easily bought a case that does not require mods if they had told me that.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> I give up. You try to warn people ahead of time about an incompatibility and that a mod is needed, and it turns into this.
> 
> I have a very detailed string of emails with Swiftech that specifically states not only to place the rad of the H220 at the bottom of the Switch 810, but also which way to orient the fans. I did not own a case, I went out of my way to ask Swiftech which case to buy to handle the H220 rad at the bottom and 360 rad at the top. I was told by them to buy the 810 which I did. I realize you can mod the case to make it work, I was just disappointed that they would tell me to buy a case that is not directly compatible and a mod would be necessary. I could have easily bought a case that does not require mods if they had told me that.


As far as I remember from the ttl video you only have to remove the screws from the bottom hdd cage


----------



## RX7-2nr

If you like the case and the cooler, make it work. Its not really that big of a deal or that hard.


----------



## Pure2sin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> I give up. You try to warn people ahead of time about an incompatibility and that a mod is needed, and it turns into this.
> 
> I have a very detailed string of emails with Swiftech that specifically states not only to place the rad of the H220 at the bottom of the Switch 810, but also which way to orient the fans. I did not own a case, I went out of my way to ask Swiftech which case to buy to handle the H220 rad at the bottom and 360 rad at the top. I was told by them to buy the 810 which I did. I realize you can mod the case to make it work, I was just disappointed that they would tell me to buy a case that is not directly compatible and a mod would be necessary. I could have easily bought a case that does not require mods if they had told me that.


I think Gabe was already trying to help you. I would contact him about your issue so the misinformation can be corrected as you say from your e-mails.

Good info though for everyone that may want to use the case you are using with the H220.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Greenback*
> 
> As far as I remember from the ttl video you only have to remove the screws from the bottom hdd cage


This is incorrect. Three different members have already stated that the best you can do is use two screw holes at the bottom of the 810. The problem there is that you are pushing it to the left and if you have a large psu like I do it creates other issues.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RX7-2nr*
> 
> If you like the case and the cooler, make it work. Its not really that big of a deal or that hard.


I have already modded the case to use all 8 screw holes. The issue was never about that, it was about Swiftech telling me it would fit, and told me to buy that case. Obviously he made a mistake and he was incorrect. Mistakes happen, that's life.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pure2sin*
> 
> I think Gabe was already trying to help you. I would contact him about your issue so the misinformation can be corrected as you say from your e-mails.
> 
> Good info though for everyone that may want to use the case you are using with the H220.


Hopefully it helps someone. If you have an 810 and want to put the H220 rad down there, then mods will be needed.


----------



## Scorpion667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Hopefully it helps someone. If you have an 810 and want to put the H220 rad down there, then mods will be needed.


As a Switch 810 owner, I appreciate the info =)
Lucky for me my PSU is short so I can probably get away with just using two screws as suggested by Martin.

I'd like to see the mod if possible, I imagine you took out the front bottom fan (the vertical mounted one) and cut out the bottom two corners of the bracket to allow the H220 rad to align with the 8 screw holes, right? I'm already planning on chopping off the base of the top optical bay to allow better airflow for the front fan of a 360 rad, so I might as well do this mod also.

The whole point here, is that Swiftech employee recommended a case for bottom rad placement to justanoldman that ended up not being compatible, influencing his case purchase decision as such. Sure you can always mod the case and make it fit but that's besides the point lol.


----------



## TheGovernment

I don't understand the big deal using all 8 screws. I mean it's on the bottom and it's not going anywhere, 2 screws would be perfectly fine in any situation other than throwing your case down a flight of stairs.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheGovernment*
> 
> I don't understand the big deal using all 8 screws. I mean it's on the bottom and it's not going anywhere, 2 screws would be perfectly fine in any situation other than throwing your case down a flight of stairs.


Because that "mod" only works if you have a small psu, it is not possible with the AX1200. Before even logging in here I tried to move the rad every which way to get any screw holes, but it would not work because of how long my psu is.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> As a Switch 810 owner, I appreciate the info =)
> Lucky for me my PSU is short so I can probably get away with just using two screws as suggested by Martin.
> 
> I'd like to see the mod if possible, I imagine you took out the front bottom fan (the vertical mounted one) and cut out the bottom two corners of the bracket to allow the H220 rad to align with the 8 screw holes, right? I'm already planning on chopping off the base of the top optical bay to allow better airflow for the front fan of a 360 rad, so I might as well do this mod also.
> 
> The whole point here, is that Swiftech employee recommended a case for bottom rad placement to justanoldman that ended up not being compatible, influencing his case purchase decision as such. Sure you can always mod the case and make it fit but that's besides the point lol.


Thanks. At least I might have helped one person.









A little frustration, a couple tools, no need for a fan down in the front panel, and not carrying about a case warranty. I had just spent hours on another rig and was in no mood for a pretty mod, I just wanted it to fit. The front panel closes perfectly, so no issue there.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> I give up. You try to warn people ahead of time about an incompatibility and that a mod is needed, and it turns into this.
> 
> I have a very detailed string of emails with Swiftech that specifically states not only to place the rad of the H220 at the bottom of the Switch 810, but also which way to orient the fans. I did not own a case, I went out of my way to ask Swiftech which case to buy to handle the H220 rad at the bottom and 360 rad at the top. I was told by them to buy the 810 which I did. I realize you can mod the case to make it work, I was just disappointed that they would tell me to buy a case that is not directly compatible and a mod would be necessary. I could have easily bought a case that does not require mods if they had told me that.


I am probably the one that instructed you to purchase the Switch 810 for mounting our H220 in the bottom of the case. I have this same case and being that I have a 240mm radiator mounted in the bottom of it I really didn't see how our H220 radiator wouldn't fit. I also looked at the pictures that Martin had posted of his test rig and it looked like he didn't have any issues fitting it there either. I'm sorry if you feel that I misinformed you or mislead you. I should have done more research into how the H220 would actually fit in that position and for that I'm sorry. I just couldn't see why it wouldn't fit. I think the length of your PSU is also an issue though. That is something that others with shorter PSUs won't experience. To be perfectly honest with you though there really aren't very many cases out there where you can mount a 2 x 120mm fan radiator in the bottom of the case. Well not without going the really expensive Case Labs route.


----------



## Mega Man

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> I believe Stephen mentioned in an earlier post that Swiftech currently doesn't have a pump top to fit the new pump, should it be pulled from the block. Like the MCP35X, a pumptop would be required.


+1


----------



## Mega Man

double post please delete


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I am probably the one that instructed you to purchase the Switch 810 for mounting our H220 in the bottom of the case. I have this same case and being that I have a 240mm radiator mounted in the bottom of it I really didn't see how our H220 radiator wouldn't fit. I also looked at the pictures that Martin had posted of his test rig and it looked like he didn't have any issues fitting it there either. I'm sorry if you feel that I misinformed you or mislead you. I should have done more research into how the H220 would actually fit in that position and for that I'm sorry. I just couldn't see why it wouldn't fit. I think the length of your PSU is also an issue though. That is something that others with shorter PSUs won't experience. To be perfectly honest with you though there really aren't very many cases out there where you can mount a 2 x 120mm fan radiator in the bottom of the case. Well not without going the really expensive Case Labs route.


Thanks for the reply. I appreciate all the help you guys give.
The basic info is, if you have a Switch 810 it will fit in the bottom one way or the other.
Short PSU = you can only use two screw holes, if you aren't comfortable with that you will have to mod it in some way.
Long PSU = more extreme mod is necessary but as I just posted, it just takes a willingness to crunch some metal.


----------



## eoniverse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I appreciate all the help you guys give.
> The basic info is, if you have a Switch 810 it will fit in the bottom one way or the other.
> Short PSU = you can only use two screw holes, if you aren't comfortable with that you will have to mod it in some way.
> Long PSU = more extreme mod is necessary but as I just posted, it just takes a willingness to crunch some metal.


That's about the long and short of it.







. I ended up keeping my lower fan installed in my 810. The radiator butts up against the internal fan housing and does not impede the fans function. But yes my Seasonic x-1250 has modular cabling that I had to maneuver the hoses around. For the mod to secure it I took a piece of thin metal strapping and drilled two holes in it. A mod just to keep the h220 from moving if I forget its loose and put the case on its side. In addition on the Asrock x58 extreme there is no pretty way to use the fan connector piece. The distance from the CPU fan connection to the connector on the h220 fans is almost to far. Had to order pwm extensions so I can manage the cables properly. Right now it running about as diagonally as I could get it.

Would have also been better if the hoses were about three inches longer. If I was running multiple video cards the hose length would not have worked with a bottom mounted radiator.

Not complaining. Just sharing. It works. I am thrilled with the results. And I've ordered what I need to manage the cables.


----------



## justanoldman

How much thermal conductivity do these hoses have?
Does it matter if they are touching each other, or touching a hot gpu?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> How much thermal conductivity do these hoses have?
> Does it matter if they are touching each other, or touching a hot gpu?


I'm not sure if that's something that we've tested for, but I can ask Stephen on Monday and see if he can look into it.


----------



## eoniverse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> How much thermal conductivity do these hoses have?
> Does it matter if they are touching each other, or touching a hot gpu?


Touching each other has not been an issue for me. Cumulatively have run Prime on full load for 5 hours. Maybe that's not enough time but I wouldn't think so. Touching GPU .....well I had not thought of that. Not home so can't check it out. Hope someone says there's nothing to worry about.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I'm not sure if that's something that we've tested for, but I can ask Stephen on Monday and see if he can look into it.


Thanks, I would appreciate it. I think that will be question that come up from people.
Depending on how you install it, with the longer hoses it has, it is likely that some people might end up having the hoses touch each other, or be touching the gpu.


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> How much thermal conductivity do these hoses have?
> Does it matter if they are touching each other, or touching a hot gpu?


It doesn't matter if they touch each other since the water inside them will probably never be over 35ºC... and, even then, the temperature on both would be roughly the same. Regarding touching other things, It will all depend on what exactly it is touching. I wouldn't want my houses to touch a metal part of the gpu that gets hot but, if it were the plastic housing or something similar that doesn't get any warm, you shouldn't worry.


----------



## jprovido

you guys think It's worth it to get rid of my h100i for one of these? id love to try watercooling my gtx 680. my i5 3570k barely gets hot (talking about actual heat output. rad barely gets hot even at full load compared to my i7 950 which heats up my radiator and you can actually feel the heat on the rad when you touch it/feel the air)


----------



## shellbunner

Ok, so I've got my H220 installed, with the Pump plugged into Channel 1 and the fans plugged into the other channels. The fans are nice and quiet, and with Speedfan, I've managed to get the Pump down to about 1250 rpm. I can't seem to get it lower than that, and even at that speed, it makes a loud humming/buzzing noise. If I turn it up to full speed it's very loud, and I can hear lots of water rushing around which I assume is normal.

I noticed in the videos that people said it was inaudible, but this seems way too loud and I'm far from a silence freak.
Anything I'm possibly missing?
The pump is mounted above the radiator if that makes a difference.

Thanks


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shellbunner*
> 
> Ok, so I've got my H220 installed, with the Pump plugged into Channel 1 and the fans plugged into the other channels. The fans are nice and quiet, and with Speedfan, I've managed to get the Pump down to about 1250 rpm. I can't seem to get it lower than that, and even at that speed, it makes a loud humming/buzzing noise. If I turn it up to full speed it's very loud, and I can hear lots of water rushing around which I assume is normal.
> 
> I noticed in the videos that people said it was inaudible, but this seems way too loud and I'm far from a silence freak.
> Anything I'm possibly missing?
> The pump is mounted above the radiator if that makes a difference.
> 
> Thanks


swiftech spec says pump minimum is 1200, so you probably hit that limit.

As for your noise, I cant offer an opinion without hearing it. Right now my computer sounds no different than my h50 in terms of overall noise.


----------



## shellbunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> swiftech spec says pump minimum is 1200, so you probably hit that limit.
> 
> As for your noise, I cant offer an opinion without hearing it. Right now my computer sounds no different than my h50 in terms of overall noise.


Thank you.
I was reading on Martins review that 1200 is the minimum, so that looks good.
Also, Martin states the pump was inaudible up to 65% and if I turn mine above 3% it's quite audible, and that's with the case under my desk.
I'll take a video in the morning and try to isolate the noise. Maybe I'm just not used to water cooling/pump noise. I don't think it's faulty.
It's probably user error.

My Antec Kuhler 620 was inaudible on any setting, so it seems odd that at minimum speed the pump is humming/buzzing this much. I wouldn't be surprised if I screwed something up.


----------



## Gallien

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shellbunner*
> 
> Thank you.
> I was reading on Martins review that 1200 is the minimum, so that looks good.
> Also, Martin states the pump was inaudible up to 65% and if I turn mine above 3% it's quite audible, and that's with the case under my desk.
> I'll take a video in the morning and try to isolate the noise. Maybe I'm just not used to water cooling/pump noise. I don't think it's faulty.
> It's probably user error.
> 
> My Antec Kuhler 620 was inaudible on any setting, so it seems odd that at minimum speed the pump is humming/buzzing this much. I wouldn't be surprised if I screwed something up.


looking forward to the video. Hopefully swiftech's unit doesn't have pump issues like the corsairs have seen


----------



## Pure2sin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shellbunner*
> 
> Thank you.
> I was reading on Martins review that 1200 is the minimum, so that looks good.
> Also, Martin states the pump was inaudible up to 65% and if I turn mine above 3% it's quite audible, and that's with the case under my desk.
> I'll take a video in the morning and try to isolate the noise. Maybe I'm just not used to water cooling/pump noise. I don't think it's faulty.
> It's probably user error.
> 
> My Antec Kuhler 620 was inaudible on any setting, so it seems odd that at minimum speed the pump is humming/buzzing this much. I wouldn't be surprised if I screwed something up.


What do you have the splitter plugged into? Are you sure its the pump?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shellbunner*
> 
> Thank you.
> I was reading on Martins review that 1200 is the minimum, so that looks good.
> Also, Martin states the pump was inaudible up to 65% and if I turn mine above 3% it's quite audible, and that's with the case under my desk.
> I'll take a video in the morning and try to isolate the noise. Maybe I'm just not used to water cooling/pump noise. I don't think it's faulty.
> It's probably user error.
> 
> My Antec Kuhler 620 was inaudible on any setting, so it seems odd that at minimum speed the pump is humming/buzzing this much. I wouldn't be surprised if I screwed something up.


You might have air in your loop, especially if you can hear the sound of water. Mine did that for 30 or so seconds while I was gently rocking my case until it went away. If you haven't tried rocking your case around try, it may help. If that doesn't help, make sure that speedfan is actually properly controlling the pump. Past that I can't help you.


----------



## M3TAl

+1 Sounds like air trapped in the pump.


----------



## TeeBlack

Glad i bought a phantom 630. i shouldn't have any mounting problems. I can mount it at the top, bottom or front of the case. Everyone seems to forget if the hose are too long for you cut them to your liking or if the hoses are not long enough you can always buy new hose!


----------



## Mozzie

I'm planning to upgrade my sig rig, will change to Corsair 800D, Asus Maximus formula V, and Asus 7970 Top.
Was planning to get Corsair H110 but that I saw the H220 bad boy







.
Anybody have install that H220 to Corsair 800D and Asus Maximus formula V? Would I have any problems installing?


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mozzie*
> 
> I'm planning to upgrade my sig rig, will change to Corsair 800D, Asus Maximus formula V, and Asus 7970 Top.
> Was planning to get Corsair H110 but that I saw the H220 bad boy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Anybody have install that H220 to Corsair 800D and Asus Maximus formula V? Would I have any problems installing?


Do not buy a 800D it is a waste of money, now that 900D is coming out for $50 more.
Everything that was bad with the 800D, has been fixed in 900D.


----------



## Mozzie

Ok cool thanx for the info.
I will wait for the 900D than.


----------



## Neo Zuko

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jprovido*
> 
> you guys think It's worth it to get rid of my h100i for one of these? id love to try watercooling my gtx 680. my i5 3570k barely gets hot (talking about actual heat output. rad barely gets hot even at full load compared to my i7 950 which heats up my radiator and you can actually feel the heat on the rad when you touch it/feel the air)


I sold my H100i For it. But I can't say in the short term it was worth it but in the long term it will be.


----------



## justanoldman

Addressing a few questions recently posted:
I am directly comparing the H220 to my old cooler the H100i. If you want to not have to listen to really loud gpu fans when you max your card then water cooling them is a great idea. You can't do that with a H100i. If you don't ever plan to expand then the H100i is probably a better choice. In my tests so far the H100i beats the H220 by a degree or so, which basically says they are equivalent.

As to the noise of the pump, theses pumps are never inaudible at any level. If you turn them down you will not be able to hear them over the sound of the fans when you are a couple feet away, which in effect makes them inaudible in that respect. Putting your ear right next to the H100i pump you pretty much couldn't hear anything. You can always here the H220 at any level if you put your ear next to it, but with it turned down you will not be able to hear in a real world setting over the fans. Since the pump of the H220 is so much stronger I think this makes sense, and is reasonable.

As to the air trapped in the loop, I have two H220 and both made a lot of noise at first. One has worked its way to being reasonably quiet, the other hasn't been used a lot yet so I am waiting to see if the noise will work itself out. I assume we are all hearing air trapped in the loop. You can try running it at 100% for awhile and see if that helps. If it does not, then there is something wrong. If you set the pwm control in bios to 40% you should get a reported speed of the pump in the 1900 range and you should not be able to hear the pump over the fans with your case closed.


----------



## kevindd992002

Is there already a comparison review between the TR Silver Arrow and the Swiftech H220?


----------



## Ryld Baenre

Would it make more sense to run the h220 outside of the system for a little to work the air bubbles out? instead of dealing with moving your whole system around to try and do that?


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ryld Baenre*
> 
> Would it make more sense to run the h220 outside of the system for a little to work the air bubbles out? instead of dealing with moving your whole system around to try and do that?


that makes sense to me

and though its very unlikely to leak --to me its sensible to test outside the case just in case


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Addressing a few questions recently posted:
> I am directly comparing the H220 to my old cooler the H100i. If you want to not have to listen to really loud gpu fans when you max your card then water cooling them is a great idea. You can't do that with a H100i. If you don't ever plan to expand then the H100i is probably a better choice. In my tests so far the H100i beats the H220 by a degree or so, which basically says they are equivalent.
> 
> As to the noise of the pump, theses pumps are never inaudible at any level. If you turn them down you will not be able to hear them over the sound of the fans when you are a couple feet away, which in effect makes them inaudible in that respect. Putting your ear right next to the H100i pump you pretty much couldn't hear anything. You can always here the H220 at any level if you put your ear next to it, but with it turned down you will not be able to hear in a real world setting over the fans. Since the pump of the H220 is so much stronger I think this makes sense, and is reasonable.
> 
> As to the air trapped in the loop, I have two H220 and both made a lot of noise at first. One has worked its way to being reasonably quiet, the other hasn't been used a lot yet so I am waiting to see if the noise will work itself out. I assume we are all hearing air trapped in the loop. You can try running it at 100% for awhile and see if that helps. If it does not, then there is something wrong. If you set the pwm control in bios to 40% you should get a reported speed of the pump in the 1900 range and you should not be able to hear the pump over the fans with your case closed.


thumbs up or down for this product?

or marks out of 10?


----------



## AdamMT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> that makes sense to me
> 
> and though its very unlikely to leak --to me its sensible to test outside the case just in case


And as I learned the hard way ... good idea to make sure everything is working before going to the trouble of installing it. Rookie mistake.


----------



## MerkageTurk

people use AI SUITE ii It made my PC so quite


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> thumbs up or down for this product?
> 
> or marks out of 10?


For expandability without doing a full custom loop, it wins hands down, no question. If you are just going to cool your cpu and never expand the loop then I am not sure it is the best choice. You are paying more for the expandability and stronger pump that is required for adding blocks, so there are cheaper alternatives that perform similarly that can be considered.

I have yet to expand mine though, so my real review of the product can't happen until I test the whole reason I bought it. Right now I am just trying to get it to work correctly in both machines. After a few restarts and letting it run at 100% my second H220 no longer has the air bubble sound coming from it which is good news.

Initial impressions:
Build quality good; included TIM just ok; back plate/installation can be improved; sticky tabs to hold backplate completely useless; cooling in line with H100i; stock fans definitely better than H100i; at 90% too loud for me, at 40% it is reasonably quiet - I lost about 3c going down to 40%.

Hope that helps, any other questions, just let me know.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> For expandability without doing a full custom loop, it wins hands down, no question. If you are just going to cool your cpu and never expand the loop then I am not sure it is the best choice. You are paying more for the expandability and stronger pump that is required for adding blocks, so there are cheaper alternatives that perform similarly that can be considered.
> 
> I have yet to expand mine though, so my real review of the product can't happen until I test the whole reason I bought it. Right now I am just trying to get it to work correctly in both machines. After a few restarts and letting it run at 100% my second H220 no longer has the air bubble sound coming from it which is good news.
> 
> Initial impressions:
> Build quality good; included TIM just ok; back plate/installation can be improved; sticky tabs to hold backplate completely useless; cooling in line with H100i; stock fans definitely better than H100i; at 90% too loud for me, at 40% it is reasonably quiet - I lost about 3c going down to 40%.
> 
> Hope that helps, any other questions, just let me know.


No love for the backplate? Compared to my old H80 and the H100i I had, I thought installing the Apogee Drive 2 was a breeze (same hardware/procedure- I have yet to instal my H220).


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> people use AI SUITE ii It made my PC so quite


i would have to say i am not a fan of AI SUITE

it reports my cpu temperatures far to low--usually 10c lower than realtemp--at the moment it says my cpu on idle is 20c and i know that cant be correct

keeps popping up warnings that my cpu is 123c or even -60c

pops up warnings that my 12v is 18.37v

though dont use the fan expert as all my fans are manually controlled


----------



## shellbunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gallien*
> 
> looking forward to the video. Hopefully swiftech's unit doesn't have pump issues like the corsairs have seen


Here are the videos. First one is set to 100%. The pump is on Channel 1 and the fans are on Channel 2 and 3 on the PWM Splitter provided with the H220, which is plugged into the CPU Header on my motherboard.




Second video is at 65%.




Third is at 5%.




Ok, so after making the videos, I ran a couple tests with only 1 fan plugged in, both plugged in, and with just the pump running. Thankfully, it's not the pump making that annoying noise like I originally thought. It's both of the fans. Maybe they normally make that noise, but I'm going to put my Noctua F12's on now, and see if there is a difference.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pure2sin*
> 
> What do you have the splitter plugged into? Are you sure its the pump?


Yes sir. I checked it a few times, and all is plugged into correctly. Pump > Channel 1 on the Splitter > Cpu Header.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sikkly*
> 
> You might have air in your loop, especially if you can hear the sound of water. Mine did that for 30 or so seconds while I was gently rocking my case until it went away. If you haven't tried rocking your case around try, it may help. If that doesn't help, make sure that speedfan is actually properly controlling the pump. Past that I can't help you.


I rocked my case, and ran the Pump/Fans/Splitter at 100% for 30 minutes, and the water sound went away.

Thanks everyone for the help. My friend will be getting an H220 in a few weeks, and then I can listen to his and see if it's normal. Or maybe, some other people have videos of the fan noise?

Thanks


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> No love for the backplate? Compared to my old H80 and the H100i I had, I thought installing the Apogee Drive 2 was a breeze (same hardware/procedure- I have yet to instal my H220).


As for the backplate, the tabs slide around and they don't stick out far so it is not easy to get it to fit an 1155 off the bat. If you use the sticky tabs to hold it there, the backplate will just fall off when you try to install it, they don't work, you have to hold or support the backplate.

The H100i was easy because they have bolts that you screw in from the front of the motherboard so the backplate can't go anywhere. The H220 has screws that are free floating on the pump so it is tricky to get them to line up. I do a lot of testing/tweaking so after many installs and uninstalls there is no comparison between the H220 and H100i for easy of installation. That is irrelevant, however, for those just installing once.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> i would have to say i am not a fan of AI SUITE


I don't like AI Suite either.


----------



## num1son

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shellbunner*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Snip
> 
> 
> 
> Here are the videos. First one is set to 100%. The pump is on Channel 1 and the fans are on Channel 2 and 3 on the PWM Splitter provided with the H220, which is plugged into the CPU Header on my motherboard.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Second video is at 65%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Third is at 5%.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can barely hear the buzzing in the videos, but it's actually WAY louder than the fans in the video. Make sure you turn up the volume and listen for that distinct buzzing/electrical noise. The fans are VERY quiet, and my wife can hear the buzzing/grinding/humming noise even when the pump is at anything above 15%, and that's from almost 10 feet away. It doesn't come across very well in the video, but it's an annoying sound. I would much rather have loud fans. It's not as bad as say coil whine from a video card, but it's up there.
> Yes sir. I checked it a few times, and all is plugged into correctly. Pump > Channel 1 on the Splitter > Cpu Header.
> I rocked my case, and ran the Pump/Fans/Splitter at 100% for 30 minutes, and the water sound went away. But I still have that buzzing noise.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks everyone for the help. Hopefully this will go away. My friend will be getting an H220 in a few weeks, and then I can listen to his and see if it's normal. Or maybe, some other people have videos of the pump noise?
> 
> Thanks


I can say that in no configuration did my pump ever make a noise quite like that. It sounds as if you may have a defective pump. Although the pump does make some noise when your ear is close to it, it's not quite that tone, nor is it so defined. I would share those videos with Swiftech and think about an RMA.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> For expandability without doing a full custom loop, it wins hands down, no question. If you are just going to cool your cpu and never expand the loop then I am not sure it is the best choice. You are paying more for the expandability and stronger pump that is required for adding blocks, so there are cheaper alternatives that perform similarly that can be considered.
> 
> I have yet to expand mine though, so my real review of the product can't happen until I test the whole reason I bought it. Right now I am just trying to get it to work correctly in both machines. After a few restarts and letting it run at 100% my second H220 no longer has the air bubble sound coming from it which is good news.
> 
> Initial impressions:
> Build quality good; included TIM just ok; back plate/installation can be improved; sticky tabs to hold backplate completely useless; cooling in line with H100i; stock fans definitely better than H100i; at 90% too loud for me, at 40% it is reasonably quiet - I lost about 3c going down to 40%.
> 
> Hope that helps, any other questions, just let me know.


This is some good information. I've had a hard time deciding on the H220 or the H100i. I've already canceled my pre-order at NCIX once, then reordered it again last week. You see, I don't plan to expand beyond the CPU cooling aspect. If the H100i will run at a tolerable sound level in push/pull, and cool just as well, I may have to cancel my pre-order again







, and go purchase a H100i for $40 less than the H220! +rep


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> For expandability without doing a full custom loop, it wins hands down, no question. If you are just going to cool your cpu and never expand the loop then I am not sure it is the best choice. You are paying more for the expandability and stronger pump that is required for adding blocks, so there are cheaper alternatives that perform similarly that can be considered.
> 
> I have yet to expand mine though, so my real review of the product can't happen until I test the whole reason I bought it. Right now I am just trying to get it to work correctly in both machines. After a few restarts and letting it run at 100% my second H220 no longer has the air bubble sound coming from it which is good news.
> 
> Initial impressions:
> Build quality good; included TIM just ok; back plate/installation can be improved; sticky tabs to hold backplate completely useless; cooling in line with H100i; stock fans definitely better than H100i; at 90% too loud for me, at 40% it is reasonably quiet - I lost about 3c going down to 40%.
> 
> Hope that helps, any other questions, just let me know.


thanks for taking the time to give me your opinion

i am considering it with a view to adding my 7970 to the loop

just trying to figure out which block would fit--never used water other than the h80 so all the different blocks and fittings take some figuring out

i would prefer a full cover block that cools memory and vrms rather than just the gpu

not in any rush so seeing what other users think about it with or without a gpu added is all usefull


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> This is some good information. I've had a hard time deciding on the H220 or the H100i. I've already canceled my pre-order at NCIX once, then reordered it again last week. You see, I don't plan to expand beyond the CPU cooling aspect. If the H100i will run at a tolerable sound level in push/pull, and cool just as well, I may have to cancel my pre-order again
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , and go purchase a H100i for $40 less than the H220! +rep


Thanks. Be aware that I was not impressed with the stock fans on the H100i, so if you replace those with quality radiator fans that will up your cost considerably. GPU fan noise, on every GPU I have ever heard is way too loud for me, so I am looking forward to doing away with that. But if you know you will never expand it, the H100i is a good alternative.

I can see people not replacing the stock H220 fans, so that will save them money. Being picky about sound though, I may end up replacing the stock H220 fans.


----------



## Ryld Baenre

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> i would have to say i am not a fan of AI SUITE
> 
> it reports my cpu temperatures far to low--usually 10c lower than realtemp--at the moment it says my cpu on idle is 20c and i know that cant be correct
> 
> keeps popping up warnings that my cpu is 123c or even -60c
> 
> pops up warnings that my 12v is 18.37v
> 
> though dont use the fan expert as all my fans are manually controlled


]

I agree that the voltage warning can be a tad annoying (it's been a long while since I've had it) but the thing to keep in mind, at least with the sabertooth z77, is that the sensor AI Suite gets its info from is from the NCT6776F sensor chip (located on the PCB), not the CPU. That is why the temps are about 10C lower than what is reported by the CPU sensor. Not sure if this is good or bad for most people out there but it probably won't make a difference how they run their PC and it won't cause any harm. For those that it does matter for it doesn't really cause any problems because they know better. I'm not sure why ASUS made the decision to take the temp from anywhere other than the temp sensor on the CPU itself.

Would it be better to replace the TIM included with something like coollaboratory liquid ultra? I know that is the stuff the guys that delid their CPUs generally use.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> thanks for taking the time to give me your opinion
> 
> i am considering it with a view to adding my 7970 to the loop
> 
> just trying to figure out which block would fit--never used water other than the h80 so all the different blocks and fittings take some figuring out
> 
> i would prefer a full cover block that cools memory and vrms rather than just the gpu
> 
> not in any rush so seeing what other users think about it with or without a gpu added is all usefull


Which 7970 do you have? If it has a blower type fan on the far end, 99% it's a reference design, so you have more options. If it's a non-reference design, you may have to settle for a universal block that fits just the GPU itself, and add heatsinks to the mosfets.

I have a reference design Diamond 7970 so I got a Swiftech Komodo block for it since I love the full-coverage design that protects. The entire PCB.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> thanks for taking the time to give me your opinion
> 
> i am considering it with a view to adding my 7970 to the loop
> 
> just trying to figure out which block would fit--never used water other than the h80 so all the different blocks and fittings take some figuring out
> 
> i would prefer a full cover block that cools memory and vrms rather than just the gpu
> 
> not in any rush so seeing what other users think about it with or without a gpu added is all usefull


No problem.
You are correct, we need a lot more reviews and members personal experience with throwing a gpu to the loop - both with and without an extra rad.

As for your 7970, like Phelan said, call or email Swiftech about their block:
http://www.swiftech.com/KOMODO-HD7900.aspx
BramSLI1 (Bryan) has helped me with figuring out which fittings and blocks will work.


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Which 7970 do you have? If it has a blower type fan on the far end, 99% it's a reference design, so you have more options. If it's a non-reference design, you may have to settle for a universal block that fits just the GPU itself, and add heatsinks to the mosfets.
> 
> I have a reference design Diamond 7970 so I got a Swiftech Komodo block for it since I love the full-coverage design that protects. The entire PCB.


its the gigabyte 7970 windforce--the one with 3 fans on it so possibly non reference

does the komodo block come with the fittings for the tubing?

or do you have to buy those as well?


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> No problem.
> You are correct, we need a lot more reviews and members personal experience with throwing a gpu to the loop - both with and without an extra rad.
> 
> As for your 7970, like Phelan said, call or email Swiftech about their block:
> http://www.swiftech.com/KOMODO-HD7900.aspx
> BramSLI1 (Bryan) has helped me with figuring out which fittings and blocks will work.


must admit the swiftech reps on here seem to be very helpfull--one reason i am looking at their products is great customer support

whether an extra rad is needed to do cpu and gpu is of interest to me as well

i know its probably capable of doing both on the one rad--but i would say i am heavily overclocking the cpu and have the 7970 at over 1ghz as well

and sometimes use software that heavily uses the cpu and leverages the compute power of the gpu as well so both are under heavy load at the same time

the 7970 is the loudest thing in my pc when under heavy load--the gigabyte cooling works well so its more from a noise point of view i am interested than gpu temps


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ryld Baenre*
> 
> Would it be better to replace the TIM included with something like coollaboratory liquid ultra? I know that is the stuff the guys that delid their CPUs generally use.


CL Ultra definitely outperforms many other TIMs including the one that comes with the H220. However, the difference is not huge, usually less than 5c improvement when used between the IHS and your cooler.

I use Ultra, and really like it. Nothing better than Ultra/Pro for delidded folk to use on the die, but on the IHS and cooler many good TIMs are fine. Some people don't like using Ultra/Pro on the IHS and cooler because it leaves a stain and may mess up the writing on the IHS. The stain can be removed with some metal polish and elbow grease, but it is not a TIM for the average Joe.

I would suggest everyone test the H220 with their favorite TIM and the included one to see if you get better temps or not. I did, but I used Ultra.


----------



## shellbunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *num1son*
> 
> I can say that in no configuration did my pump ever make a noise quite like that. It sounds as if you may have a defective pump. Although the pump does make some noise when your ear is close to it, it's not quite that tone, nor is it so defined. I would share those videos with Swiftech and think about an RMA.


Thank you.
I think I edited my post while you were replying. Sorry about that.
I found out it's the fans. I'm going to try them later as pull, and then as just case fans, to see if they make that noise again.
I put my Noctua F12's on and it sounds perfect. Not that the Helix are bad fans, as I may have not had them screwed on all the way, or somehow installed them incorrectly. I don't think I installed them wrong, but either way, it's running perfect at 100% with the Noctuas now.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shellbunner*
> 
> Thank you.
> I think I edited my post while you were replying. Sorry about that.
> I found out it's the fans. I'm going to try them later as pull, and then as just case fans, to see if they make that noise again.
> I put my Noctua F12's on and it sounds perfect. Not that the Helix are bad fans, as I may have not had them screwed on all the way, or somehow installed them incorrectly. I don't think I installed them wrong, but either way, it's running perfect at 100% with the Noctuas now.


Cool.
I just went back and listened again to your videos and was preparing a reply that was going to point out use different fans, because I thought that was the issue. Glad you have it running well now.

I would agree, the stock fans are good and quite, but they have a little higher pitched electronic buzz type sound that many will not notice, but others may not like it and will want to try other fans to compare.

Hearing is a very subjective thing, there is a very wide variety in pitch/tone of a sound that some don't notice at all, and others hate. Worse case scenario you replace the H220 fans with ones you like - many do that with the H100i also.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> its the gigabyte 7970 windforce--the one with 3 fans on it so possibly non reference
> 
> does the komodo block come with the fittings for the tubing?
> 
> or do you have to buy those as well?


Yes that is definitely a non-reference design. I don't know of any manufacturer that makes a full cover block for that. The Komodo is only for reference designs. To watercool the GPU, you have two options imo:

1: put a uniblock like the Swiftech MCR82 and some heatsinks on the VRMs

2:Sell or trade your 7970 towards a reference design. I did this with my XFX 6950 2 GB DD model. I traded it twice for a smaller card + cash, then sold the last card and used all the funds to buy a reference design XFX 6950, though my situation was unique.


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Yes that is definitely a non-reference design. I don't know of any manufacturer that makes a full cover block for that. The Komodo is only for reference designs. To watercool the GPU, you have two options imo:
> 
> 1: put a uniblock like the Swiftech MCR82 and some heatsinks on the VRMs
> 
> 2:Sell or trade your 7970 towards a reference design. I did this with my XFX 6950 2 GB DD model. I traded it twice for a smaller card + cash, then sold the last card and used all the funds to buy a reference design XFX 6950, though my situation was unique.


cant seem to see a mcr82 ?

should that be mcw82?

and would it be possible to get creative on the gigabyte heatsink with a dremel?

as looking at the swiftech 7900 reference heatsinks here

http://www.swiftech.com/HD7900-HSF.aspx

may be possible just to cut a square/rectangle in the gigabyte heatsink for the water block and re-use it ?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> cant seem to see a mcr82 ?
> 
> should that be mcw82?
> 
> and would it be possible to get creative on the gigabyte heatsink with a dremel?
> 
> as looking at the swiftech 7900 reference heatsinks here
> 
> http://www.swiftech.com/HD7900-HSF.aspx
> 
> may be possible just to cut a square/rectangle in the gigabyte heatsink for the water block and re-use it ?


My bad; yes the MCW82 is what I meant. Yes you could certainly get creative with the original heatsink and reuse it, as many people have done in the past.







. I personally avoid this situation only because graphics cards are something I change and resell/trade somewhat often.


----------



## justanoldman

Just so you guys know if you have to remove the fans from the H220, you need a really thin screwdriver. A normal household screwdriver is too fat because you need it to fit through one fan screw hole to get to the screw at the bottom fan screw hole.

I used a thin one included in my pc builder toolkit to remove the little screws that come stock,. I needed to use my radiator brackets for my very old TJ10 case, then used the long included screws to go through the bracket, the fan, and into the rad. Works perfectly, but would have been a pain without a thin screwdriver.


----------



## shellbunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Just so you guys know if you have to remove the fans from the H220, you need a really thin screwdriver. A normal household screwdriver is too fat because you need it to fit through one fan screw hole to get to the screw at the bottom fan screw hole.
> 
> I used a thin one included in my pc builder toolkit to remove the little screws that come stock,. I needed to use my radiator brackets for my very old TJ10 case, then used the long included screws to go through the bracket, the fan, and into the rad. Works perfectly, but would have been a pain without a thin screwdriver.


Yes, good advice.
I had to run to Home Depot and get a new screwdriver.


----------



## MadGoat

So I went ahead and used the "tim mate" that came with the H220...

I'm wondering if this stuff has a cure time? So far my temps have dropped ~2c since install









Full load @ 48c is nothing to sneeze @...


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shellbunner*
> 
> Thank you.
> I think I edited my post while you were replying. Sorry about that.
> I found out it's the fans. I'm going to try them later as pull, and then as just case fans, to see if they make that noise again.
> I put my Noctua F12's on and it sounds perfect. Not that the Helix are bad fans, as I may have not had them screwed on all the way, or somehow installed them incorrectly. I don't think I installed them wrong, but either way, it's running perfect at 100% with the Noctuas now.


Could you try and do me favor so I can help you figure out what's wrong with your fans? Try connecting them to a Molex or to the PWM splitter without attaching them. Just hold them and see what kind of noise they make. While you're holding them move them around slightly and see if the noise changes. This will help to figure out what the problem might be and whether or not you may need to RMA your fans.


----------



## MerkageTurk

i use REALTEMP for Temperatures and AISUITE to adjust Fan speed etc


----------



## MerkageTurk

my h220 had broken radiator or bent radiator fins


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MadGoat*
> 
> So I went ahead and used the "tim mate" that came with the H220...
> 
> I'm wondering if this stuff has a cure time? So far my temps have dropped ~2c since install
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Full load @ 48c is nothing to sneeze @...


I believe our TIM Mate II does have a cure time. I'll ask Stephen tomorrow for what the approximate cure time is for our thermal paste.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> my h220 had broken radiator or bent radiator fins


Can you post a picture so we can see what you mean by "broken radiator or bent radiator fins"?


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> My bad; yes the MCW82 is what I meant. Yes you could certainly get creative with the original heatsink and reuse it, as many people have done in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I personally avoid this situation only because graphics cards are something I change and resell/trade somewhat often.


been reading up a bit more

seems the version one pcb of my card does actually use a reference pcb

but my card has the version 2.0 or 2.1 pcb which is voltage locked







and non reference









version one had black pcb and mine is blue

i guess if i take a dremel to the original heatsink then reselling the card would be an issue

but this card should be good for the next 2-3 years at 1080p i would think

nothings ever simple i guess


----------



## MerkageTurk

okay the fins are bent, but the temps are still good let me show a pic one sec


----------



## shellbunner

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Could you try and do me favor so I can help you figure out what's wrong with your fans? Try connecting them to a Molex or to the PWM splitter without attaching them. Just hold them and see what kind of noise they make. While you're holding them move them around slightly and see if the noise changes. This will help to figure out what the problem might be and whether or not you may need to RMA your fans.


Thanks for the reply.
I did as you requested, and they are slightly louder than the Noctuas, which is to be expected. When I lay them on the case the noise comes back, but when I hold them and turn them up, all I hear is air blowing and slight motor noise which is normal.

It must have been vibrating on my case or something. I'm not sure what the issue was, but it was obviously on my end. Thanks for the great customer service though!

I do have to say, this H220 is amazing.

I am obviously an amateur with this, but my 2500k at 4.5 and 1.386V, with just my 2 Noctua F12 on Push, at 30% pump and fan speed have been running Prime 95 for 2 hours, and it's been averaging mid 60's, with the hottest core reaching 70C. Ambient is 20.5C. I can barely hear the system, and it's performing excellent.

Well done Swiftech!


----------



## TH3 original

I noticed that this is either sold out or not in stock anywhere.

I found sidewinder has 2 left in stock that they just got, heres the link!

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swh2codriipl.html


----------



## TeeBlack

For TIM i like MX-4 and Gelid GC Extreme. I use to use AS5 but it has a long cure time.


----------



## MerkageTurk

HERE IT IS BENT FINS


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> 
> 
> HERE IT IS BENT FINS


judging by the shape of the bent fins, something round ~2cm must have hit it. the circular shape is near clear


----------



## Greenback

Bram if gabe wants 1 of these tested on a cpu+gpu he could send me 1 Il'l give it a run to see how it goes


----------



## MerkageTurk

Well i received it yesterday and out of the box it was like this.


----------



## MerkageTurk

Wow Swiftech rep just responded to me; Thank you Bryan however I will not be RMA as a love the unit and temps seem fine with 4.6ghz overclock with a max temp of 42C; and when a 360 rad comes out than i will just swap the rad.

Thank you again


----------



## Mega Man

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jprovido*
> 
> you guys think It's worth it to get rid of my h100i for one of these? id love to try watercooling my gtx 680. my i5 3570k barely gets hot (talking about actual heat output. rad barely gets hot even at full load compared to my i7 950 which heats up my radiator and you can actually feel the heat on the rad when you touch it/feel the air)


yes, but that is because i am a swiftech fanboy~

swiftechs own design > the crappy aio re-brand kits. (IMO)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> For expandability without doing a full custom loop, it wins hands down, no question. If you are just going to cool your cpu and never expand the loop then I am not sure it is the best choice. You are paying more for the expandability and stronger pump that is required for adding blocks, so there are cheaper alternatives that perform similarly that can be considered.
> 
> I have yet to expand mine though, so my real review of the product can't happen until I test the whole reason I bought it. Right now I am just trying to get it to work correctly in both machines. After a few restarts and letting it run at 100% my second H220 no longer has the air bubble sound coming from it which is good news.
> 
> Initial impressions:
> Build quality good; included TIM just ok; back plate/installation can be improved; sticky tabs to hold backplate completely useless; cooling in line with H100i; stock fans definitely better than H100i; at 90% too loud for me, at 40% it is reasonably quiet - I lost about 3c going down to 40%.
> 
> Hope that helps, any other questions, just let me know.


i have to disagree completely
better warranty and unique pump that is designed by people who know water cooling, and from what i have seen does not yet have all the pump failures the aio kits do, granted it is young in its life but i have faith in it

and best in class customer service
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TH3 original*
> 
> I noticed that this is either sold out or not in stock anywhere.
> 
> I found sidewinder has 2 left in stock that they just got, heres the link!
> 
> http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/swh2codriipl.html


cause it is awesome ~! cant wait till they just release their pump with top


----------



## Mega Man

double post


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Addressing a few questions recently posted:
> I am directly comparing the H220 to my old cooler the H100i. If you want to not have to listen to really loud gpu fans when you max your card then water cooling them is a great idea. You can't do that with a H100i. If you don't ever plan to expand then the H100i is probably a better choice. In my tests so far the H100i beats the H220 by a degree or so, which basically says they are equivalent.
> 
> As to the noise of the pump, theses pumps are never inaudible at any level. If you turn them down you will not be able to hear them over the sound of the fans when you are a couple feet away, which in effect makes them inaudible in that respect. Putting your ear right next to the H100i pump you pretty much couldn't hear anything. You can always here the H220 at any level if you put your ear next to it, but with it turned down you will not be able to hear in a real world setting over the fans. Since the pump of the H220 is so much stronger I think this makes sense, and is reasonable.
> 
> As to the air trapped in the loop, I have two H220 and both made a lot of noise at first. One has worked its way to being reasonably quiet, the other hasn't been used a lot yet so I am waiting to see if the noise will work itself out. I assume we are all hearing air trapped in the loop. You can try running it at 100% for awhile and see if that helps. If it does not, then there is something wrong. If you set the pwm control in bios to 40% you should get a reported speed of the pump in the 1900 range and you should not be able to hear the pump over the fans with your case closed.


Ive had two H100is, and on both the pumps were loud. If the H220 pump is louder, Ill be very disappointed. I can hear the H100i from three feet away with my side panel closed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> No problem.
> You are correct, we need a lot more reviews and members personal experience with throwing a gpu to the loop - both with and without an extra rad.


Mine should be here tomorrow. Ill be testing out of the box, with MCW80/GTX670 added, with another rad added, then also with the H220's rad/res removed, and add another res with the other 240 rad.

Im thinking it would be a nice idea if Swiftech sold just the pump/block unit for $100. Cheaper then the Apogee Drive II, but not so much cheaper to take sales away from it, and it wouldn't take many sales from the H220, since it would be for people who want a custom loop and not AIO. Could be the Apogee Drive Lite or something.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> Ive had two H100is, and on both the pumps were loud. If the H220 pump is louder, Ill be very disappointed. I can hear the H100i from three feet away with my side panel closed.
> Mine should be here tomorrow. Ill be testing out of the box, with MCW80/GTX670 added, with another rad added, then also with the H220's rad/res removed, and add another res with the other 240 rad.
> 
> Im thinking it would be a nice idea if Swiftech sold just the pump/block unit for $100. Cheaper then the Apogee Drive II, but not so much cheaper to take sales away from it, and it wouldn't take many sales from the H220, since it would be for people who want a custom loop and not AIO. Could be the Apogee Drive Lite or something.


Really? That surprises me. I have tested two H100i units as well, and the fan noise was far more than the pump. I would put my head in the case and try to listen to the H100i pump and couldn't hear it over all the other noise in the rig. But as I posted, I don't hear the H220 pump with the case closed and standing a couple feet away with it at 40% or below.

I will be interested to hear how you compare the two when you get yours, and we all want to hear how it performs with a gpu block added.


----------



## Tr4nc3f0rm3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Did you look to see if you can offset the H220 by mounting it in different holes like the Arc Midi?


Sure did. I can almost mount it in the holes closet to the side panel if I were to just jam and bend the heatsink into position (which would bend the MB towards the tray (assuming I didn't actually crack anything in the process). But, it didn't seem like a good solution. I didn't measure exactly, but probably need another 5mm or so. Oh...and this is with the fans mounted below the rad since the fans seem slightly thinner than the rad.


----------



## msgclb

I just finished installing my H220 into my C70 case.

I really had problems mounting the block. It seems I couldn't get the backplate to stay in place but eventually I succeeded.

When I first applied power I believed the pump wasn't running.

The reason is I couldn't hear it. I still haven't heard the pump or any of the PWM fans but I can see them spinning.

I immediately went to the BIOS to check fan speed and CPU temp found that something must be cooling.

I next loaded windows and this is my first image.



I did a quick load test with IBT.



For the record it is about 60F in the room where this rig is located.

Here an image of my H220 in my C70.



The motherboard is an ASRock X58 Extreme and processor a i7-970.

I left the XSPC EX240 rad installed because I might add it to the loop.

I still need to find out how this PWM works on this motherboard or with SpeedFan.


----------



## NV43

This is my current fan layout, minus the bottom intake. I have no fan mounted on the bottom. How would you suggest I rearrange my fans for the use of the H220? I know the H220 is ideally supposed to be used as an intake, to pull in air from outside the case. Any suggestions?


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Really? That surprises me. I have tested two H100i units as well, and the fan noise was far more than the pump. I would put my head in the case and try to listen to the H100i pump and couldn't hear it over all the other noise in the rig. But as I posted, I don't hear the H220 pump with the case closed and standing a couple feet away with it at 40% or below.
> 
> I will be interested to hear how you compare the two when you get yours, and we all want to hear how it performs with a gpu block added.


Ah, you were talking about with the stock fans going. I had turned the stock fans down to 800rpm when testing for idle noise, and to listen to the pump, turn the fans off.

I can hear the pump over NF-F12s at 7V though. So far, the Zalman CNPS20LQ has the quietest pump Ive ever heard, or rather, not heard









The H100i is quieter then the older ones, but its still not as quiet as I would have liked.

I order $130 in stuff (rad, tubing, fittings, etc) to expand on the H220, before I even got it. I guess I should have checked to make sure I would be happy with the pump noise first. Hoping that I am.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *msgclb*
> 
> I just finished installing my H220 into my C70 case.
> I really had problems mounting the block. It seems I couldn't get the backplate to stay in place but eventually I succeeded.


That is what I pointed out earlier, you have to hold the backplate in place when installing.

If you have a case without a cutout where you have to remove the mobo to install the backplate then you don't have to worry about it.

If you have a cutout, then I would suggest people have someone else hold it in place while you install the pump if you are keeping your case upright during installation.

The easiest way in my opinion, is to have the case upright or face down, then install the backplate with the included sticky tabs. They will hold it there if no pressure is applied. Then lay the case on its back, but before you do place a small folded towel, on the ground or table, where the cutout will lay to support the backplate while you install the pump. Try to get the bolts of the pump threaded into the backplate by turning them but not pushing down to hard. You are basically trying to catch the thread and get the bolt started without pushing so hard to knock the back plate off.


----------



## mcnumpty23

could i just leave my h80 back plate in place and use that?

as dont remember any issues with that back plate when i installed it

or are the thread sizes or any thing different on the h220 that would make it a bad idea?


----------



## sikkly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> That is what I pointed out earlier, you have to hold the backplate in place when installing.
> 
> If you have a case without a cutout where you have to remove the mobo to install the backplate then you don't have to worry about it.
> 
> If you have a cutout, then I would suggest people have someone else hold it in place while you install the pump if you are keeping your case upright during installation.
> 
> The easiest way in my opinion, is to have the case upright or face down, then install the backplate with the included sticky tabs. They will hold it there if no pressure is applied. Then lay the case on its back, but before you do place a small folded towel, on the ground or table, where the cutout will lay to support the backplate while you install the pump. Try to get the bolts of the pump threaded into the backplate by turning them but not pushing down to hard. You are basically trying to catch the thread and get the bolt started without pushing so hard to knock the back plate off.


I personally just elevated the case off of the ground with 2 boxes and held the blackplate on and put the pump on with my other hand, and just used my fingers to start the threads. It was fairly simple, seemed to work without any problems.


----------



## ez12a

A tip: I used for my back plate installation is folding a microfiber cloth and then setting my computer down over it (mobo cutout), so the cloth would put gentle pressure on the back-plate. I also had everything grounded in case ESD was a concern w/ the cloth.

Painters tape or something else temporary will probably work just as well.

Glad to see i'm not the only one that struggled for a bit haha. But the temps are worth it!


----------



## TeeBlack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *msgclb*
> 
> I just finished installing my H220 into my C70 case.
> I really had problems mounting the block. It seems I couldn't get the backplate to stay in place but eventually I succeeded.
> 
> When I first applied power I believed the pump wasn't running.
> The reason is I couldn't hear it. I still haven't heard the pump or any of the PWM fans but I can see them spinning.
> 
> I immediately went to the BIOS to check fan speed and CPU temp found that something must be cooling.
> 
> I next loaded windows and this is my first image.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I did a quick load test with IBT.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the record it is about 60F in the room where this rig is located.
> 
> Here an image of my H220 in my C70.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The motherboard is an ASRock X58 Extreme and processor a i7-970.
> I left the XSPC EX240 rad installed because I might add it to the loop.
> 
> I still need to find out how this PWM works on this motherboard or with SpeedFan.


i would just use speed fan. i have an asrock p67 extreme mb and the pwm options in the bios sucks and so does the AXTU software


----------



## msgclb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TeeBlack*
> 
> i would just use speed fan. i have an asrock p67 extreme mb and the pwm options in the bios sucks and so does the AXTU software


I have to agree that the pwm options suck on the asrock x58.

In my bios my options for CPU Fan Setting are

Automatic Mode or Full On

Under Automatic Mode I have

Target Temperature [45C/113F]; I can change this but to what?

Target Fan Speed [Level 9]; This can be lowered down to level 1. I believe the Level 9 is the fastest so what level should I use?

Currently my pump is running @ max.

Using the splitter I don't know what my pwm fans speed is but visually there running @ max.

I set up SpeedFan but so far I haven't been able to lower my pump speed.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *msgclb*
> 
> I have to agree that the pwm options suck on the asrock x58.
> In my bios my options for CPU Fan Setting are
> 
> Automatic Mode or Full On
> Under Automatic Mode I have
> Target Temperature [45C/113F]; I can change this but to what?
> Target Fan Speed [Level 9]; This can be lowered down to level 1. I believe the Level 9 is the fastest so what level should I use?
> 
> Currently my pump is running @ max.
> Using the splitter I don't know what my pwm fans speed is but visually there running @ max.
> 
> I set up SpeedFan but so far I haven't been able to lower my pump speed.


You have to go into the advanced configuration and change the setting for your fan control chipset on your mobo to Software/Manual control (depends on the mobo).

like this:


I'm using speedfan for my setup and it is working just like I want it to. Let me know if you have problems.


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> CL Ultra definitely outperforms many other TIMs including the one that comes with the H220. However, the difference is not huge, usually less than 5c improvement when used between the IHS and your cooler.
> 
> I use Ultra, and really like it. Nothing better than Ultra/Pro for delidded folk to use on the die, but on the IHS and cooler many good TIMs are fine. Some people don't like using Ultra/Pro on the IHS and cooler because it leaves a stain and may mess up the writing on the IHS. The stain can be removed with some metal polish and elbow grease, but it is not a TIM for the average Joe.
> 
> I would suggest everyone test the H220 with their favorite TIM and the included one to see if you get better temps or not. I did, but I used Ultra.


Promilatech PK-1 is all I use on anything these days, but I keep a tube of 7 Karat around as well.

Just depends on personal experience, I guess... I know I like to use thicker TIM on aftermarket GPU heatsinks and aircoolers, since that might not be serviced as often as say, a CPU interface.

My 2c!

Thanks - T


----------



## msgclb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> You have to go into the advanced configuration and change the setting for your fan control chipset on your mobo to Software/Manual control (depends on the mobo).
> 
> like this:
> 
> 
> I'm using speedfan for my setup and it is working just like I want it to. Let me know if you have problems.


Here's my SpeedFan setup



My options were On/Off, SmartGuardian and Software control.

It was on the SmartGuardian.

When I changed it to Software controlled a miracle happened.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MadGoat*
> 
> So I went ahead and used the "tim mate" that came with the H220...
> 
> I'm wondering if this stuff has a cure time? So far my temps have dropped ~2c since install
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Full load @ 48c is nothing to sneeze @...


Stephen just recently tested our TIM Mate's cure time and it's about 2 hours.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> I remember stephen saying that you could separate the pump from the waterblock. If I do this, will I need to buy a new housing for the waterblock or both?


In talking with Stephen this is not advisable because there is no compatible top for the H220 pump.


----------



## TeeBlack

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> Wow Swiftech rep just responded to me; Thank you Bryan however I will not be RMA as a love the unit and temps seem fine with 4.6ghz overclock with a max temp of 42C; and when a 360 rad comes out than i will just swap the rad.
> 
> Thank you again


if you want a 360 rad why not just get the MCR320-QP-RES-R2 now?


----------



## MadGoat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Stephen just recently tested our TIM Mate's cure time and it's about 2 hours.


Awesome, that explains it!


----------



## JackieTran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> In talking with Stephen this is not advisable because there is no compatible top for the H220 pump.


If I did option A and sealed both the top of the waterblock and bottom of the pump, it should be okay right? that way a top wouldnt be needed as I'm still using the normal one


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> If I did option A and sealed both the top of the waterblock and bottom of the pump, it should be okay right? that way a top wouldnt be needed as I'm still using the normal one


You really need to better explain what it is that you're trying to do. Are you trying to configure a different block for this unit, or are you trying to modify the housing? Please explain in detail so that I can advise you to the best of my ability.


----------



## justanoldman

Bram,
Did you get a chance to ask whether it matters if the hoses touch each other, or anything else in the rig?


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Bram,
> Did you get a chance to ask whether it matters if the hoses touch each other, or anything else in the rig?


I can't see how that would ever be an issue. The water wouldn't transfer heat through the hose well at all.


----------



## JackieTran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> You really need to better explain what it is that you're trying to do. Are you trying to configure a different block for this unit, or are you trying to modify the housing? Please explain in detail so that I can advise you to the best of my ability.


I'm trying to separate the pump from the pump/ waterblock combo.

If I took the pump, I'm tryna figure out what I need to do to seal the loop


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Bram,
> Did you get a chance to ask whether it matters if the hoses touch each other, or anything else in the rig?


Here's what you need to consider. If the part on the graphics card, or any other surface that the tubing is touching, is hot to the touch then this could be an issue. If it's just merely warm to the touch or cool then it isn't a problem. The same goes with the tubing touching each other. Typically though having the tubing touching each other shouldn't be an issue because the coolant isn't going to get that warm to begin with.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> This is incorrect. Three different members have already stated that the best you can do is use two screw holes at the bottom of the 810. The problem there is that you are pushing it to the left and if you have a large psu like I do it creates other issues.
> I have already modded the case to use all 8 screw holes. The issue was never about that, it was about Swiftech telling me it would fit, and told me to buy that case. Obviously he made a mistake and he was incorrect. Mistakes happen, that's life.
> Hopefully it helps someone. If you have an 810 and want to put the H220 rad down there, then mods will be needed.


You do have a legitimate beef. Don't get unnerved though. Some people did not understand the compatibility problem because in Martin's review I don't think he mentioned that he moved the radiator to the left and only used 2 screws. I presume that the Swiftech tester did not use the case himself and based his findings on Martin's review. That may have been a little lazy or sloppy from a scientific view point and in reality it backfired. A lesson to be learned by all. I hope your mod works well and doesn't make your case ugly or less efficient. Good luck brother.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> I'm trying to separate the pump from the pump/ waterblock combo.
> 
> If I took the pump, I'm tryna figure out what I need to do to seal the loop


If I understand you correctly you're trying to just use the water block from our H220 kit by itself. We don't have anything here that would fit over the water block to seal it. Stephen is also saying that this is something that he wouldn't recommend doing because it could potentially cause the block to leak.


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheGovernment*
> 
> I don't understand the big deal using all 8 screws. I mean it's on the bottom and it's not going anywhere, 2 screws would be perfectly fine in any situation other than throwing your case down a flight of stairs.


Look now you are continuing an argument that is already over done. The guy states he can't move the radiator to the left like martin did as he has an over-sized power supply. Now just cut it out.


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> ....


Yep, it all worked out. He sent me a PM explaining exactly that, and I understand how it was an easy mistake to make. It's all good now. I don't see many other company's here helping to support their product, and I am happy with my two H220s so far.


----------



## Greenback

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> If I understand you correctly you're trying to just use the water block from our H220 kit by itself. We don't have anything here that would fit over the water block to seal it. Stephen is also saying that this is something that he wouldn't recommend doing because it could potentially cause the block to leak.


If I understand how the pump/block works water into the pump around the block and back to rad I would think if it's not done correctly there would be a possability of messing up the flow leave water sitting in the block getting rather warm


----------



## os2wiz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Yep, it all worked out. He sent me a PM explaining exactly that, and I understand how it was an easy mistake to make. It's all good now. I don't see many other company's here helping to support their product, and I am happy with my two H220s so far.


I am glad you are happy and you were able to make a quick and easy mod. I am waiting for the H320 as My temps need a bigger dip than I can get from the 240mm radiator. I hope I have no issue as I have been told by the Canadian speedo guy that the 320 will fit the top of my case without a problem.


----------



## ez12a

for those with pump noise, or arent sure if the noise is normal, I can post a video with the computer off to provide a baseline, then with the system on, measured unofficially with a db meter on my galaxy nexus. I can do a few variations too like with no fans on or a typical # of fans.

tbh as it is now I cant hear the pump or differentiate it from fans other than some trickling at max speed.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Well, I kept my second pre-order in, and it looks like I'll have my H220 this week. Got an e-mail from NCIX just now. They're in stock and my order has been processed! Here I come guys!!!!


----------



## mojojj31

I'm planning a new WC build using an Apogee Drive ii, but I can't find any in Canada. Shipping from the US alone is $20 + brokerage + taxes. Seeing as how the Drive ii is like a higher powered version of the H220, it'd *still* be significantly cheaper to buy it just for the pump. I'd probably use the Drive 2 at the lowest settings anyways, so that'd basically make it equivalent to an H220.

What do you guys think?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mojojj31*
> 
> I'm planning a new WC build using an Apogee Drive ii, but I can't find any in Canada. Shipping from the US alone is $20 + brokerage + taxes. Seeing as how the Drive ii is like a higher powered version of the H220, it'd *still* be significantly cheaper to buy it just for the pump. I'd probably use the Drive 2 at the lowest settings anyways, so that'd basically make it equivalent to an H220.
> 
> What do you guys think?


That's why I switched out my Apogee Drive 2 for the H220


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mojojj31*
> 
> I'm planning a new WC build using an Apogee Drive ii, but I can't find any in Canada. Shipping from the US alone is $20 + brokerage + taxes. Seeing as how the Drive ii is like a higher powered version of the H220, it'd *still* be significantly cheaper to buy it just for the pump. I'd probably use the Drive 2 at the lowest settings anyways, so that'd basically make it equivalent to an H220.
> 
> What do you guys think?


I can help you out with this. What are you planning to add to your loop in the future and what are you planning to cool with this unit currently when you get it?


----------



## BrotherJoseph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> Well, I kept my second pre-order in, and it looks like I'll have my H220 this week. Got an e-mail from NCIX just now. They're in stock and my order has been processed! Here I come guys!!!!


I hope they ship today, I'd have it tomorrow


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> for those with pump noise, or arent sure if the noise is normal, I can post a video with the computer off to provide a baseline, then with the system on, measured unofficially with a db meter on my galaxy nexus. I can do a few variations too like with no fans on or a typical # of fans.
> 
> tbh as it is now I cant hear the pump or differentiate it from fans other than some trickling at max speed.


would be helpful

not too sure how accurate the db meters are on mobile phones?

but at least a lot of people have access to a db app

from 3 feet away from my pc my galaxy s3 measures it at 40db with the h80 in push/pull

and all 5 system fans running


----------



## mojojj31

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I can help you out with this. What are you planning to add to your loop in the future and what are you planning to cool with this unit currently when you get it?


Check out my build plan here http://www.overclock.net/t/1174563/silverstone-ft03-ft03-mini-owners-club/560#post_19488076

3570k and 7970 in an FT03. I already have the rads on order.


----------



## TheGovernment

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *os2wiz*
> 
> Look now you are continuing an argument that is already over done. The guy states he can't move the radiator to the left like martin did as he has an over-sized power supply. Now just cut it out.


Way to go forum dad.


----------



## ghjjf

the paint on the radiator scratches sooooooo easily


----------



## Pure2sin

Seems like my pump was loud when I first started everything. I could also hear water and bubbles but after a little while it seemed to lessen. Seems like there might be a little bit of a break-in time on this pump.

EDIT-

How loud should this pump be? I know that is pretty subjective but I can hear mine over the Corsair fans at 100% with the pump and rad fans set at 50%


----------



## Tom Thumb

Got my shipped e-mail!








Was thinking, it would be nice if there was a thread where H220 owners could put their temperature results.
Would like to see what everyone is accomplishing with these units after all the hype, and how they are set up to accomplish it!


----------



## BrotherJoseph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> Got my shipped e-mail!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was thinking, it would be nice if there was a thread where H220 owners could put their temperature results.
> Would like to see what everyone is accomplishing with these units after all the hype, and how they are set up to accomplish it!


Which courier did you choose? Canada Post?


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> would be helpful
> 
> not too sure how accurate the db meters are on mobile phones?
> 
> but at least a lot of people have access to a db app
> 
> from 3 feet away from my pc my galaxy s3 measures it at 40db with the h80 in push/pull
> 
> and all 5 system fans running


yeah, definitely not sure how accurate the meters are, since they're wholly dependent on the mic on the phone. But that's also why I took a baseline reading with the computer off so you can at least see the delta with the computer on/off and with fans on/off. Rendering the video now.









From my findings, the pump at max speed by itself is about 5 db over ambient (measured with 3x 7200 rpm HDDs running) from about 10.5" open side. keep in mind db does not equal pitch.


----------



## Dudewitbow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> Got my shipped e-mail!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Was thinking, it would be nice if there was a thread where H220 owners could put their temperature results.
> Would like to see what everyone is accomplishing with these units after all the hype, and how they are set up to accomplish it!


I think posting it in the H220 club should be enough for something like that. If someone wanted to go the extra mile, someone should host like a google spreadsheet on cpu, clocks and temperatures


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BrotherJoseph*
> 
> Which courier did you choose? Canada Post?


Purolator-Express $8.00


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dudewitbow*
> 
> I think posting it in the H220 club should be enough for something like that. If someone wanted to go the extra mile, someone should host like a google spreadsheet on cpu, clocks and temperatures


While something like that would be cool,I think the number of variables would make it entertaining at best, since some will have different TIM, fans, intake/exhaust, push/pull, extra blocks and or rads, case, CPU, GPU, OC, etc. If someone can come up with a viable way to have everyone list that info and a way to list it all, I'm open to add it in though.


----------



## ez12a

My H220 pump noise demo is up:


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> My H220 pump noise demo is up:


Thanks. Nice job!


----------



## BrotherJoseph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> Purolator-Express $8.00


That's what I chose too. I pre-ordered on Feb 2nd but mine hasn't shipped







Hopefully tomorrow...
I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of numbers you get


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> My H220 pump noise demo is up:


Good Work Buddy thanks for taking the time to perform your own tests! I just Did a DB test on my HaF X with V8 cooler master. At idle about 900 rpm its about 60Db so seeing those numbers is going to make my rig much quieter. I Do have the 200xmm on top and 200mm on the side and 230mm on the front so also taking those into consideration. I also don't mind the bubbly noise.

+REP

Were is my H320 Swiftech Crew? Still waiting on it


----------



## JackieTran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> If I understand you correctly you're trying to just use the water block from our H220 kit by itself. We don't have anything here that would fit over the water block to seal it. Stephen is also saying that this is something that he wouldn't recommend doing because it could potentially cause the block to leak.


Yeah, that's what I meant.

I it's possible right? With lots of super glue and the right size acrylic


----------



## WarMacheen

UPS is a pile of crap

Delivered the package to the wrong address, signed someone else name and now the package is nowhere to be found and I'm out an H220.

When he comes by here today he's going to be in for a surprise.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WarMacheen*
> 
> UPS is a pile of crap
> 
> Delivered the package to the wrong address, signed someone else name and now the package is nowhere to be found and I'm out an H220.
> 
> When he comes by here today he's going to be in for a surprise.


Contact the seller you bought the package from and have them file a claim with UPS. UPS claims have to be filed by the sender. I ran into the same problem with some mtn bike wheel once.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Well, got my Purolator tracking number yesterday, but it's still not on the radar!


----------



## Ryld Baenre

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> Snip]


Nice job on measuring the noise but I can't hear it over my H100 :/ The visual queue is all I have to go on.


----------



## guinner16

I figured I would post this for those of you looking to get an H220 and change some things out, or even just cut the tubing.


----------



## bvsbutthd101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> I figured I would post this for those of you looking to get an H220 and change some things out, or even just cut the tubing.


I was really hoping someone would post a pic with their tubes changed out. Looks very good. Definitely gonna pick one of these up. My i7 930 @ 4.2 under my Corsair H50 runs a little hot lol.


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvsbutthd101*
> 
> I was really hoping someone would post a pic with their tubes changed out. Looks very good. Definitely gonna pick one of these up. My i7 930 @ 4.2 under my Corsair H50 runs a little hot lol.


I dont have any numbers yet as this is a fresh build that I am still finishing up. I hope to have it up and running by the weekend as I am waiting on a few more pieces. The only think I am wondering about is if I should have cut the tube on the left a tad shorter. The reason I didn't is because I felt a little tourquing on the unit when twisting it around to get it installed. The SLI titans under that paper towl are itching to go.


----------



## bvsbutthd101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> I dont have any numbers yet as this is a fresh build that I am still finishing up. I hope to have it up and running by the weekend as I am waiting on a few more pieces. The only think I am wondering about is if I should have cut the tube on the left a tad shorter. The reason I didn't is because I felt a little tourquing on the unit when twisting it around to get it installed. The SLI titans under that paper towl are itching to go.


You plan on watercooling your Titan's to?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> I dont have any numbers yet as this is a fresh build that I am still finishing up. I hope to have it up and running by the weekend as I am waiting on a few more pieces. The only think I am wondering about is if I should have cut the tube on the left a tad shorter. The reason I didn't is because I felt a little tourquing on the unit when twisting it around to get it installed. The SLI titans under that paper towl are itching to go.


I personally would have preferred the look of the tube on the left being longer so that it sweeps equally with the right tube. But that's just my opinion. Great looking setup nonetheless.









Also, I'm surprised you don't grab a few clamps and throw that chipset block into the loop, since it already has the rright barbs you need







.


----------



## bencher

Why would anyone cut the tube shorter?


----------



## bvsbutthd101

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Why would anyone cut the tube shorter?


To get a cleaner look. The tubes on the swiftech h220 do look a little long.


----------



## justanoldman

Now that the product is out and we have an owner's thread, should we lock this and switch over? I have seen people posting the same thing here and there a couple times. Just a suggestion, so we don't have to follow two threads.


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvsbutthd101*
> 
> You plan on watercooling your Titan's to?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> I personally would have preferred the look of the tube on the left being longer so that it sweeps equally with the right tube. But that's just my opinion. Great looking setup nonetheless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, I'm surprised you don't grab a few clamps and throw that chipset block into the loop, since it already has the rright barbs you need
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


This is my first ever build so I wanted to keep it simple as far as the watercooling is concerned. I plan on keeping the h220 for 6 months to a year, and then I will go a full custom loop.


----------



## Neo Zuko

I think the fact that the tubes are longer will work out better in my CaseLabs SM8 case.


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ryld Baenre*
> 
> Nice job on measuring the noise but I can't hear it over my H100 :/ The visual queue is all I have to go on.


haha yeah, as i was editing the video my actual computer was making it hard for me to hear the audio. Couldnt distinguish which was what. Some over ear headphones might help you guys get an idea.

Looking up some comparative db guides, the phone is fairly accurate, as normal speech is about 60 db (it gets to that when i speak in the video). 35 db at idle is almost background/ambient noise quiet in an office.


----------



## ghjjf

i think there's something wrong with my pump :\

it was running fine for most of yesterday, now it has this awful clicking noise that speeds up with the rpm of the pump.

disconnected all fans to make sure it's definitely the pump


----------



## WarMacheen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phelan*
> 
> Contact the seller you bought the package from and have them file a claim with UPS. UPS claims have to be filed by the sender. I ran into the same problem with some mtn bike wheel once.


I waited on the UPS guy to show up and had a chat with him.

My package is on my desk =)


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WarMacheen*
> 
> I waited on the UPS guy to show up and had a chat with him.
> 
> My package is on my desk =)


What was the real story then?


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WarMacheen*
> 
> I waited on the UPS guy to show up and had a chat with him.
> 
> My package is on my desk =)


Ah cool beans. I tried to get my original package but the people that lived in the other apt would never answer the door.


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> My H220 pump noise demo is up:


thank you very much for this

its something i can easily replicate to get an idea of the noise difference between the h220 and my h80

getting 50db at the moment with everything running and the phone in the same position --but do have 2 x 120mm side fans that you didnt

will have to disconnect those later to see how low it goes

+1 rep to you


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghjjf*
> 
> i think there's something wrong with my pump :\
> 
> it was running fine for most of yesterday, now it has this awful clicking noise that speeds up with the rpm of the pump.
> 
> disconnected all fans to make sure it's definitely the pump


Yuck! That's not nice. Contact Swiftech. Pretty sure they can help you out one way or another.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> Yuck! That's not nice. Contact Swiftech. Pretty sure they can help you out one way or another.


Already on top of it. We do our best to take care of our customers in the same manner that we would want to be taken care of.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Already on top of it. We do our best to take care of our customers in the same manner that we would want to be taken care of.


Nice.


----------



## EVO PC

So the H220 can be expanded to have multiple radiators or additional water blocks for cooling the GPU







, I was wondering if you can also incorporate a resevoir like the Bitspower inline Water Tank into the loop. Would this be possible?

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9575/ex-res-156/Bitspower_Water_Tank_Z-Multi_150_Inline_Reservoir_BP-WTZM150P-BK.html?tl=g30c97s165.


----------



## ghjjf

swiftech took care of my issue very quickly and professionally









no fuss


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EVO PC*
> 
> So the H220 can be expanded to have multiple radiators or additional water blocks for cooling the GPU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> , I was wondering if you can also incorporate a resevoir like the Bitspower inline Water Tank into the loop. Would this be possible?
> 
> http://www.frozencpu.com/products/9575/ex-res-156/Bitspower_Water_Tank_Z-Multi_150_Inline_Reservoir_BP-WTZM150P-BK.html?tl=g30c97s165.


From looking at this tank it's just a cylindrical reservoir. Adding an extra reservoir to this kit wouldn't be an issue at all. All you'd need are some 3/8 x 5/8 fittings, maybe some extra tubing, and some more fluid. No problem.


----------



## MerkageTurk

Yes i just received a response by Swiftech which i can add XSPC duel bay reservoir


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> Yes i just received a response by Swiftech which i can add XSPC duel bay reservoir


So that was you on YouTube. Cool. I'm glad those videos are helpful.


----------



## justanoldman

Since it has a built in reservoir, what is the advantage of adding another?


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Since it has a built in reservoir, what is the advantage of adding another?


maybe a larger volume of fluid takes longer to heat up and can disperse more heat?


----------



## MerkageTurk

well just for aesthetics i like a reservoir on the front bay showing my coolant


----------



## Phishy714

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> well just for aesthetics i like a reservoir on the front bay showing my coolant


You can also monitor your fluid levels to make sure you are never getting low!


----------



## justanoldman

So add an external res for aesthetics and monitor fluid levels, that sounds reasonable. Does it change cooling ability at all?


----------



## prava

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> So add an external res for aesthetics and monitor fluid levels, that sounds reasonable. Does it change cooling ability at all?


It doesn't. The more liquid you have, the more time it needs to reach equilibrium... but that's it. At the end of the day it doesn't matter if you have a 1L loop or a 15L one (besides factoring that a leak of 15L would be... well... something to worry about







), temperatures on equilibrium will be the same.


----------



## EVO PC

Just for aesthetics for me. I want to know your guy's input that if I include a resevior that would be located near the bottom of my case, obviously it will be alot lower than the pump. Would the pump be powerfull enough to suck the fluid up from the resevior then to the top radiator and into the cpu block/pump with out air bubbles? I know its not ideal but would this loop even work?


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EVO PC*
> 
> Just for aesthetics for me. I want to know your guy's input that if I include a resevior that would be located near the bottom of my case, obviously it will be alot lower than the pump. Would the pump be powerfull enough to suck the fluid up from the resevior then to the top radiator and into the cpu block/pump with out air bubbles? I know its not ideal but would this loop even work?


What else are you putting in your loop and how do you intend to have it configured? This will make a great deal of difference in terms of being able to bleed your loop. If you use this reservoir and position it lower than your pump you're going to have to either fill the loop outside of your case to properly prime your pump, or you're going to have to use the integrated reservoir in your radiator.


----------



## Avonosac

Oh Bryan...

You're salvation.


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Avonosac*
> 
> Oh Bryan...
> 
> You're salvation.


I don't get it? What did I do?


----------



## Avonosac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> I don't get it? What did I do?


They finally got delivered. I won't be bugging you anymore


----------



## Tom Thumb

So, I get an e-mail yesterday from NCIX saying it was shipped, still not on the Purolator radar. WTH.


----------



## Sp33d Junki3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> So, I get an e-mail yesterday from NCIX saying it was shipped, still not on the Purolator radar. WTH.


It can take upto 24hrs for puro to update. You should know that already.


----------



## Scorpion667

Start posting temps losers! I won't have my H220 for a week, I NEED EXCITEMENT NAO


----------



## TheGovernment

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> So, I get an e-mail yesterday from NCIX saying it was shipped, still not on the Purolator radar. WTH.


It's purolator man, you're lucky if it ever shows up on their site. I'd say in my case, it's a 50/50 shot since it's usually here before it's even on the system. I rarely ever can track anything from them. The only reason I do is because the Depot store is a 2 minute drive from my work. USP and Fedex are a 40 minute drive...


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scorpion667*
> 
> Start posting temps losers! I won't have my H220 for a week, I NEED EXCITEMENT NAO


Ya. Where's the temps?


----------



## EVO PC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> What else are you putting in your loop and how do you intend to have it configured? This will make a great deal of difference in terms of being able to bleed your loop. If you use this reservoir and position it lower than your pump you're going to have to either fill the loop outside of your case to properly prime your pump, or you're going to have to use the integrated reservoir in your radiator.











Im at work at the moment and all I have available to me is MS paint so I sketched this picture up for quick for visualization. But here is a loop I was hoping to do with H220 kit. I know I might have to prime the pump outside the case or tilt the case on its side while keeping the resevior pointed up and make sure theres enough water circulating into the loop. What do you think?


----------



## CTM Audi

Finally got my new case, and testing the H100i before the H220 goes in.


----------



## MerkageTurk

well my temps maximum is 44c overclocked p95 for 6-7 hours my 2500k to 4.6ghz using asus bios overclock with no voltage tweak etc.


----------



## Ryld Baenre

Lets get that H320 out! I want to get my processor delidded and lapped!


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> well my temps maximum is 44c overclocked p95 for 6-7 hours my 2500k to 4.6ghz using asus bios overclock with no voltage tweak etc.


what was your old cooler and temps for comparison (if any)?


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ryld Baenre*
> 
> Lets get that H320 out! I want to get my processor delidded and lapped!


Do not lap your chip, the H220 is designed for concave IHS, which most are.


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> well my temps maximum is 44c overclocked p95 for 6-7 hours my 2500k to 4.6ghz using asus bios overclock with no voltage tweak etc.


can i ask how you measured the temp?

and what voltage cpuz was showing under prime95?

and whats your ambient temperature?

i know this is a good cooler but 44c seems very low at 4.6ghz after 6/7 hours of prime95

my 2600k idles at 30c on the hottest core


----------



## BramSLI1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EVO PC*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im at work at the moment and all I have available to me is MS paint so I sketched this picture up for quick for visualization. But here is a loop I was hoping to do with H220 kit. I know I might have to prime the pump outside the case or tilt the case on its side while keeping the resevior pointed up and make sure theres enough water circulating into the loop. What do you think?


I take it that all you're adding is a water cooled graphics card and a reservoir. This will work except for one minor detail. You don't want to have the inlet from the pump going to the graphics card. If you plan on doing it this way it will make bleeding and priming your pump very difficult. A work around for this would be to turn your pump around 180 degrees and then you'll just need to turn the top the same way so that the logo is facing the right way up. I hope I'm making myself clear, but if you turn them around make sure first that you don't have any issues with clearance of heat sinks or ram that you didn't have before. Let me know if this answers your question.


----------



## MerkageTurk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ez12a*
> 
> what was your old cooler and temps for comparison (if any)?


H100i using same settings was showing 49-57C

before H100i i was using stock intel Heatsink which did even boot only overclocked it to 4.2 which made it possible to boot however temps were between 85c - 97c
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mcnumpty23*
> 
> can i ask how you measured the temp?
> 
> Using Real Temp which showed a maximum temp of 44c and AI Suite II Because here in the UK its 4c
> 
> and what voltage cpuz was showing under prime95?
> 
> 1.350, I did not mess with voltage or anything just loaded ASUS 4.6 Profile with all power saving features off
> 
> and whats your ambient temperature?
> 
> I dont know my ambient temperature but here in the Uk temps are around 4c-6c and during the evening it was down to 0c
> 
> i know this is a good cooler but 44c seems very low at 4.6ghz after 6/7 hours of prime95
> 
> my 2600k idles at 30c on the hottest core


my 2500k idles around 22c-30c too


----------



## ez12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> H100i using same settings was showing 49-57C
> 
> before H100i i was using stock intel Heatsink which did even boot only overclocked it to 4.2 which made it possible to boot however temps were between 85c - 97c
> my 2500k idles around 22c-30c too










nice. Bout the same as my findings as well (approx 5C difference between the two). Glad to hear the stock fans(?) on the h220 are comparable to the GTs.

I might end up swapping out the GTs in favor of PWM control with the included helix fans.


----------



## WarMacheen

Those small plastic retaining clips/circles when switching to LGA 2011....










I think I need stitches lol


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WarMacheen*
> 
> Those small plastic retaining clips/circles when switching to LGA 2011....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I need stitches lol


Noooo. Don't say that.


----------



## Ryld Baenre

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justanoldman*
> 
> Do not lap your chip, the H220 is designed for concave IHS, which most are.


It's not guaranteed that the IHS is going to be concave though, right? I have read about convex IHSs also.

Good info though! Just delidded then.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *WarMacheen*
> 
> Those small plastic retaining clips/circles when switching to LGA 2011....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think I need stitches lol


The Apogee drive 2 hardware interchanges, but it has metal clips, if you prefer. I used these because I already had them and I think the larger thumbscrews look better







.


----------



## Dizz22r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ryld Baenre*
> 
> Lets get that H320 out! I want to get my processor delidded and lapped!


This!!! Were is it?


----------



## justanoldman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ryld Baenre*
> 
> It's not guaranteed that the IHS is going to be concave though, right? I have read about convex IHSs also.
> 
> Good info though! Just delidded then.


They vary in their amount of concavity, but they are most all concave from what I understand. If you have one that is actually convex, I think that might be a different story.

I can confirm the H220 will work with a lapped IHS, so it is not like you can't buy it if you have already lapped it, but if you have not done so you are better off not. The product, like many coolers now, assume a slightly concave IHS so no point in lapping it if you haven't already.


----------



## BrotherJoseph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> So, I get an e-mail yesterday from NCIX saying it was shipped, still not on the Purolator radar. WTH.


Got my tracking # this morning. No updates until now, "Arrived at sort facility". Prob getting it tomorrow


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BrotherJoseph*
> 
> Got my tracking # this morning. No updates until now, "Arrived at sort facility". Prob getting it tomorrow


Mine says the same thing now. I'm in Ontario though, so probably looking at Thursday. Hopefully.


----------



## colforbin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> Ya. Where's the temps?


3570k @ 4.6 GHz @ 1.33v with a hour run of OCCT 4.3.2. - temp avg on all 4 cores was 68c. Idles in the low 30's.


----------



## TheTingez

Just to through a bit more of today's news on the H220 Martin from MartinLiquidLabs has posted some interesting Noise level results on his own Website and Youtube, for anyone interested that is ... lol ... Although i knew pretty much what would come out on top (so to speak) there is some interesting points to gain from watching the video's. For me one key point was when the H220 got to 65% CPU load and the H100i hit 60% just look at the RPM figures on the fans and pump. Then when Martin hits the H100i to the same 65% level ... POW right in the kisser the H220 pulls away in db level ... LOL

Approx 1800rpm the H220 on 65% CPU load, pump rpm 2506 giving a 45.6db level. Compare that to the H100i Approx 1780rpm the H100i on 60% CPU load, pump rpm 2311 giving a 49.8db level. As soon as you took the CPU load to a matching 65% the H100i went through the roof compared to the H220. The MAX db levels achieved was H220 46.5db and H100i 60.0db with a 700rmp higher pump speed on the﻿ H220. VERY interesting


----------



## twitchyzero

not sure if to post here or official thread...
anyone know where I can order one with free shipping and preferrably no sales tax to WA?

NCIX.com (US site) has those criterias but it seems to be charging an extra $10 on top of the MSRP








edit: oh wait they have the pricematch option...gonna give that a try. There's no way I'm paying an extra $10 on top of that and another 12% on top of that worth of taxes.

Still no ETA on newegg huh..?


----------



## AdamMT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *twitchyzero*
> 
> not sure if to post here or official thread...
> anyone know where I can order one with free shipping and preferrably no sales tax to WA?
> 
> NCIX.com (US site) has those criterias but it seems to be charging an extra $10 on top of the MSRP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> edit: oh wait they have the pricematch option...gonna give that a try. There's no way I'm paying an extra $10 on top of that and another 12% on top of that worth of taxes.
> 
> Still no ETA on newegg huh..?


If you notice, Newegg lists every single Swiftech product they sell as "out of stock". Something going on there.


----------



## AdamMT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheTingez*
> 
> Just to through a bit more of today's news on the H220 Martin from MartinLiquidLabs has posted some interesting Noise level results on his own Website and Youtube, for anyone interested that is ... lol ... Although i knew pretty much what would come out on top (so to speak) there is some interesting points to gain from watching the video's. For me one key point was when the H220 got to 65% CPU load and the H100i hit 60% just look at the RPM figures on the fans and pump. Then when Martin hits the H100i to the same 65% level ... POW right in the kisser the H220 pulls away in db level ... LOL
> 
> Approx 1800rpm the H220 on 65% CPU load, pump rpm 2506 giving a 45.6db level. Compare that to the H100i Approx 1780rpm the H100i on 60% CPU load, pump rpm 2311 giving a 49.8db level. As soon as you took the CPU load to a matching 65% the H100i went through the roof compared to the H220. The MAX db levels achieved was H220 46.5db and H100i 60.0db with a 700rmp higher pump speed on the﻿ H220. VERY interesting


What will be interesting to me is how the two systems compare cooling-wise when the H100i fans are throttled to equal the max db level of the H220. Even then, as Martin points out, there's a difference between sound level and sound quality.


----------



## Mega Man

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JackieTran*
> 
> Yeah, that's what I meant.
> 
> I it's possible right? With lots of super glue and the right size acrylic


check martins review there is a support built into the block to support the shaft, so no more to it then that. not to mention volute spiral that would need to be machined into it, to make it functional
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BramSLI1*
> 
> Already on top of it. We do our best to take care of our customers in the same manner that we would want to be taken care of.


like i said best in class customer support i have only had to deal once with them ( however it was not for a failure, just getting a mounting kit ) they made it completely painless and i have to say it was a pleasure to not have to deal with junky customer support

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *EVO PC*
> 
> Just for aesthetics for me. I want to know your guy's input that if I include a resevior that would be located near the bottom of my case, obviously it will be alot lower than the pump. Would the pump be powerfull enough to suck the fluid up from the resevior then to the top radiator and into the cpu block/pump with out air bubbles? I know its not ideal but would this loop even work?


i wouldnt do it personally, not saying it can not be done. but if some liquid was to evaporate air will go up and possibly cause airlock, or if you let it become more then just a bubble the pump may not be primed when it is running.


----------



## Mega Man

double post


----------



## num1son

My expanded review at ThinkComputers.org.


----------



## Phelan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> If you notice, Newegg lists every single Swiftech product they sell as "out of stock". Something going on there.


I'm sure it's because they added Swiftech back to their database of suppliers in anticipation of the H220, since years ago they used to sell that stuff by Swiftech.


----------



## CTM Audi

My kit seems flawless so far. Rad had no bent fins, pump seems to be doing its job well, air bubbles were gone after a few seconds. Going to start stress testing.

Got it installed in the Arc Midi R2. Its a bit of a pain because of the swivel barbs, but it just fit. I was able to gain a little extra room by swiveling the hose clamp on one of the tubes, though it wasnt needed to get it to fit.

Swiftech reps, you are welcome to us my pics for the case fitment part on your site if you want. The Arc Midi R2 seems to be pretty popular around here.









Also, the tubing is pretty stained out of the box. Not a big deal since Im changing it anyway, but wanted to point that out.


----------



## mojojj31

Questions!

1) Will the pump handle a loop containing 3 x 120mm rads and 1 xspc razor 7970?

2) Any issues using a killcoil with this?


----------



## psikeiro

Some more pics:

http://imgur.com/a/MFb6T


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> My kit seems flawless so far. Rad had no bent fins, pump seems to be doing its job well, air bubbles were gone after a few seconds. Going to start stress testing.
> Also, the tubing is pretty stained out of the box. Not a big deal since Im changing it anyway, but wanted to point that out.


That tubing is sad looking. Looks like it's been walked on!
Happy to hear it's working well for you in relation to pump/water noise.


----------



## CTM Audi

The blue PWM wire in the connector for the pump is bent out of shape, and has a hard time making contact. Took me about a half an hour to find out why it kept running at 3k RPM. I tried bending the pin a bit, and if the wire is folded a certain way, then it makes contact and slows down.

My fans are also making a very annoying noise. Thought it was the pump at first, but after getting its speed down, and disconnecting the fans, its definitely them.


----------



## Tom Thumb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> The blue PWM wire in the connector for the pump is bent out of shape, and has a hard time making contact. Took me about a half an hour to find out why it kept running at 3k RPM. I tried bending the pin a bit, and if the wire is folded a certain way, then it makes contact and slows down.
> 
> My fans are also making a very annoying noise. Thought it was the pump at first, but after getting its speed down, and disconnecting the fans, its definitely them.


There seems to be some fan/quality issues.








I hope they are few and far between.


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom Thumb*
> 
> There seems to be some fan/quality issues.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope the are few and far between!


Luckily I have NF-F12s Ill be using anyway.

Will try to get a vid with the fans to see if the sound is normal. I ran them at max for a bit, then min, and bounced back and forth a bit, and either Im somewhat used to it now, or its not as bad.


----------



## kevindd992002

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> The blue PWM wire in the connector for the pump is bent out of shape, and has a hard time making contact. Took me about a half an hour to find out why it kept running at 3k RPM. I tried bending the pin a bit, and if the wire is folded a certain way, then it makes contact and slows down.
> 
> My fans are also making a very annoying noise. Thought it was the pump at first, but after getting its speed down, and disconnecting the fans, its definitely them.


I thought you're kit is flawless?


----------



## CTM Audi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kevindd992002*
> 
> I thought you're kit is flawless?


It was upon first inspection, and a few minutes of use. Was letting the pump run full to get the air bubbles out, but then it didnt want to turn down. It seems ok now, just might cause an issue with resale value later on.

Also, I think the fans are ok. They are just very poor when it comes to restrictive filters. They get very loud, and cooling performance plummets when the top piece is on the case. The NF-F12s and SP120Ls didnt have that issue, but the Zalman fan did too. Its just the way they are designed.

10 minutes until my last test is done, then I can finalize my review.


----------



## Mega Man

http://www.swiftech.com/fan120x25mmrdm1225s.aspx

i love these fans cheep and are amazing at cooling on rads. only thing i dont like is the ones i have are pwm

are a little noisy but idc that is why i have a good sound system


----------



## CTM Audi

Pure data of my review, will do some graphs tomorrow or later this week. Or jump to the conclusion for a quick description.

Posting this in the owners thread, and the main thread. I think they should be combined, but oh well. Anyway, here we go...

Testing Methods

Cooler mounted to the roof in an intake/push orientation (meaning the fans are intaking air from out side the case, and pushing through the radiator in to the case). Push/pull is used for the CNPS20LQ when using the 2x fans. Fans are 3ft away from my head in normal seating position.

Prime95 AVX small FFTs 15 minute runs are used for load testing. A thermometer is placed right next to the top fans to measure ambient temperature.

Core Temp is used to record temperatures of all cores, idle and load. Idle will be taken at 800RPM fan speed (as low as the Helix fans can go) 30 minutes after the Prime95 run was done. Sound readings will also be done at 800RPM.

Thermal Paste

Small line of MX-2 between 3570K die and IHS. The CPU will not be removed from the motherboard, so this will not change at all.

Small dot of MX-2 between IHS and cooler block.

Fans

First testing will be done with included factory fans, limited to 1800RPM.
1800RPM was chosen, as that is the max speed of the Helix fans from the H220. Also, anything over that is just unreasonably loud with the SP120Ls.

I will also test the SP120Ls, Helix, and Zalman fans on a quiet setting. The RPM will be different from each, but will set them so they produce the same DB rating (29Db +/- 1Db) as NF-F12s 7V at 3ft. Idle testing will be 800RPM from all sets of fans.

Then I will test with Noctua NF-F12s. These are highly regarded fans, that are very quiet and smooth sounding, while offering good air flow and high static pressure. These will be tested at 1100RPM, which is the speed they run with the LNA (Low Noise Adapter).

Only other case fan installed is a stock Fractal rear exhaust at 7V. There is no perceivable noise from this fan at sitting distance. The Twin Frozr fans on the MSI GTX-670 is manually set to 30% fan speed (lowest setting). PSU fan will not be spinning.

For sound testing numbers, I will be using the sound meter app on my Nexus 4. This isn't the most accurate way of getting true decibel readings, but since it can be used to tell whether one is louder then the other. It will be placed directly next to my keyboard on my desk, and sitting directly above the fans on top of the case, with no other ambient noise.

Components

Intel I5 3570K IHS repasted with MX-2 running at 1.225V in BIOS, 1.224V load, 4.5Ghz
Gigabyte Z77X-UP4-TH motherboard
4x4GB Crucial Tactical Tracer 1866Mhz 9-9-9-27-2T
MSI GTX-670 PE idle
Seasonic X-650 Gold running in Hybrid mode so fan does not spin
2x Samsung SSDs behind motherboard tray
Fractal Arc Midi R2 case, drive cages removed, stock fans removed aside from rear exhaust position at 7V, all panels installed on case

Cooling And Sound Results

Zalman Stock Fan - 23C Ambient

Load 1800RPM - 3ft 38Db - 1" 52Db
68 / 75 / 77 / 76

Idle 800RPM - 3ft 28Db - 1" 39Db
35 / 41 / 38 / 40

Zalman Stock Fan Quiet Setting - 23C Ambient

Load 1000RPM - 3ft 30Db - 1" 41Db
79 / 85 / 87 / 87 (DNF, apps were crashing once 85C was hit)

Zalman NF-F12s 7v - 23C Ambient

Load 1100RPM - 3ft 28Db - 1" 42Db (fans are spaced with push/pull rather then side by side)
65 / 72 / 74 / 73

Idle 800RPM - 21Db - 1" 36Db
33 / 36 / 34 / 35

Corsair H100i SP120L Fans - 23C Ambient

Load 1800RPM - 3ft 40Db - 1" 61Db
57 / 64 / 65 / 65

Idle 800RPM - 3ft 26Db - 1" 42Db
31 / 33 / 32 / 33

Corsair H100i SP120Ls Quiet Setting - 23C Ambient

Load 1100RPM - 3ft 30Db - 1" 50Db
64 / 70 / 70 / 70

Corsair H100i NF-F12s 7v - 23C Ambient

Load 1100RPM - 3ft 29Db - 1" 50Db
63 / 69 / 69 / 69

Idle 800RPM - 3ft 22Db - 1" 41Db
29 / 33 / 30 / 33

Swiftech H220 Helix Fans - 24C Ambient

Load 1800RPM - 3ft 36Db - 1" 65Db
59 / 67 / 66 / 66

Idle 800RPM - 3ft 25Db - 1" 39Db
31 / 33 / 30 / 33

Swiftech H220 Helix Fans Quiet Setting - 23C Ambient

Load 1250RPM - 3ft 30Db - 1" 50Db
62 / 69 / 69 / 68

Swiftech H220 NF-F12s 7v - 24C Ambient

Load 1100RPM - 3ft 25Db - 1" 49Db
61 / 68 / 68 / 67

Idle 800RPM - 3ft 21Db - 1" 39Db
30 / 32 / 28 / 32

Conclusion

So much to talk about with the H220, don't know where to start. Guess we'll start with the cooling performance.

With the same fans on all three coolers (the Noctua NF-F12s), the H220 leads the H100i by 2C over ambient, and 7C over the Zalman. When comparing the three at the same noise level, the H220 is still 1C cooler then the H100i, and vastly cooler then the Zalman (more to discus on this later).

Now, when we look at the performance of them with the included fans, at the same speed (1800RPM), the picture changes. Here the H100i beats the H220 by 1C over ambient, and 12C over the Zalman. I can see a couple of reasons for this.

First, the biggest reason that I can think of, is the fans performance in a restrictive environment. Each fan is designed a different way, and some fans are better then others when they are "blocked" from where they are trying to get the air to pull through. The Arc Midi R2 case has a pretty thick fan filter in the top panel, and not much room between the fan and filter. The Noctua NF-F12s and SP120Ls don't seem to be effected by this as much as the Zalman and Helix fans.

Before I got this case, I had a NZXT Phantom 630, which had practically no restriction behind the fans. In that case, the Zalman with its stock fan turned down had no trouble at all keeping temps under 75C. The difference in performance was also much smaller compared to the H100i.

The second reason, is even though they are spinning at the same speed, the Zalman and SP120L fans are much louder then the Helix fans. They are able to do more at the same speed, but at the expense of more noise.

With an AIO cooler there are three main components to be compared. The block/pump unit, the rad, and the fans. Clearly, the H220 has the best block/pump and rad of all the AIO coolers. The fans that come with it just don't cool as well as some other options out there. They are pretty quiet (though not as quiet or nearly as smooth sounding as the NF-F12s), look nice, and are PWM controlled though.

If you put the H220 up against the H100i with the same set of fans, or where both are making the same amount of noise, the H220 is the better performer. But if you just want straight cooling performance, don't care so much about noise, and don't want to spend more money on other fans, then the H100i is very slightly better.

However, the major point to the H220, is the expandability of it. Ive already ordered an other radiator, new tubing, and have a block ready to cool my GTX 670. This will continue to cut down on noise, and also improve cooling performance.

On to build quality and installation.

There is a very heft weight to this unit that other AIOs don't have. Especially the block/pump. The rad of my unit was spotless with no bent fins, and all the air bubbles escaped from the pump in a matter of seconds.

Negative points. The tubing was very dirty/stained. Its "gunked" in to the outside of the tubing, and effects the look of it. My unit also came with the pin for the blue PWM wire of the pump being bent, and not making good contact. This took me a while to figure out why it was running full speed all the time. After fiddling with the wire a bit, and installing it in a way that puts tension on it, it now works.

The mounting of the block/pump could be much easier. The included back plate has four little foam squares that don't do anything but make it harder to instal. They are sticky, but so small when you try to thread the screws through, it pushes it right off. So you have to either hold the back plate with one hand, and try to hold the block/pump and screw it in with the other, or prop something against the back plate while you mount it.

Also, because the radiator has swivel barbs, and the res built in, its longer then most 240mm radiators. It was a very tight fit in the top of my Arc Midi R2 case. The radiator is 29mm thick instead of 25mm thick like the H100i and most other 240mm AIO coolers. This means that cases with 50mm of space from the top to the motherboard may not fit (depends on your motherboard).

To close this up, overall I'm very happy with this kit. Its a great way to for first timers to get their feet wet with water cooling, and is a great bargain for enthusiasts who don't want to blow a ton of money on a full custom kit all at once. After having many custom kits before, I can tell it would take at least double the money to get a custom kit that would perform noticeably better then this.

Id also trust it to last a very long time, and Swiftech's customer support is top notch. They have been in the water cooling game for a long time, and really know what they are doing.

Expect an H320 to be released soon as well, with a 3x120mm radiator. I believe a white version may be coming as well. You can also check their site for extra fittings, tubing, PWM splitters, rads, and Hydrx 2 coolant for expanding it.

H220 gets a full recommendation from me.


----------



## frozenclay

Hi guys, just want to ask if the H220 will be able to fit the Cooler Master Haf XM. I have a Z77 Sabertooth motherboard. TIA.


----------



## ninoez

Hi guys!

I got my H220 yesterday and installed it right after. But since I booted my computer I get this very annoying noise which I could attribute to the pump.
Do you know if this is because of the remaining air bubbles in the circuit? I have the system running for like 10 hours now.

Thanks!


----------



## AdamMT

Nice review, CTM Audi. It would be cool if you could put the figures in tables as it's a little hard to read/compare as it stands.


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ninoez*
> 
> Hi guys!
> 
> I got my H220 yesterday and installed it right after. But since I booted my computer I get this very annoying noise which I could attribute to the pump.
> Do you know if this is because of the remaining air bubbles in the circuit? I have the system running for like 10 hours now.
> 
> Thanks!


Did you mount it with the fill port up or down> I originally mounted mine with the fill port facing down and was getting a ton of noise. Last night I reversed it to face up and the noise was gone within a few minutes.


----------



## mcnumpty23

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> H100i using same settings was showing 49-57C
> 
> before H100i i was using stock intel Heatsink which did even boot only overclocked it to 4.2 which made it possible to boot however temps were between 85c - 97c
> my 2500k idles around 22c-30c too


yeah i am in the uk too

outside temp is 3c now

but inside is 16c

and even when i turn down my overclock to 4.6ghz at 1.325v my temps on hottest core on prime95 get to 60c with h80 push/pull

wonder if its because i have hyperthreading turned on?

also i overclock using the bios so all 4 cores are overclocked

in your AI suite under cpu ratio does it say 4 cores overclocked?


----------



## Thrasher1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CTM Audi*
> 
> It was upon first inspection, and a few minutes of use. Was letting the pump run full to get the air bubbles out, but then it didnt want to turn down. It seems ok now, just might cause an issue with resale value later on.
> 
> Also, I think the fans are ok. They are just very poor when it comes to restrictive filters. They get very loud, and cooling performance plummets when the top piece is on the case. The NF-F12s and SP120Ls didnt have that issue, but the Zalman fan did too. Its just the way they are designed.
> 
> 10 minutes until my last test is done, then I can finalize my review.


A curiosity then, if you say that with air flow restriction that the Helix fans get wonky...
Are you referring to dust filters or just top plates, or pretty much anything that doubly restricts the fans' ability to catch air?

Wondering, because I want to do a top mount intake, and my house is dusty, so I'm a BIG screen filter fanatic.

Thanks - T


----------



## guinner16

I know it has been said that Swiftechs splitter will not work with all fan controllers and I might berunning into that problem. I will say up front that I am not using the Helix fans and using Corsair SP120 Quiets instead. I hooked my fans up to 2 different swiftech splitters, and then plugged each into a different channel on my lamptron fc5-v2. Once powered on all the fans went to ~1100rpm with no control. To test, I plugged the fans directly into the fan controller and had full control. Any suggestions, or will this splitter just not work with my set up.


----------



## ninoez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> Did you mount it with the fill port up or down> I originally mounted mine with the fill port facing down and was getting a ton of noise. Last night I reversed it to face up and the noise was gone within a few minutes.


Sadly, the fillport is facing up so that won't be the reason.


----------



## AdamMT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *guinner16*
> 
> I know it has been said that Swiftechs splitter will not work with all fan controllers and I might berunning into that problem. I will say up front that I am not using the Helix fans and using Corsair SP120 Quiets instead. I hooked my fans up to 2 different swiftech splitters, and then plugged each into a different channel on my lamptron fc5-v2. Once powered on all the fans went to ~1100rpm with no control. To test, I plugged the fans directly into the fan controller and had full control. Any suggestions, or will this splitter just not work with my set up.


I think the splitter will only work properly with PWM fans.


----------



## AdamMT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ninoez*
> 
> Sadly, the fillport is facing up so that won't be the reason.


Did you change any tubes/blocks, or is this the stock system? If it's the latter then you might need to RMA your unit. Otherwise you might need to add more fluid or remove it from your case to work the air out.


----------



## ninoez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> Did you change any tubes/blocks, or is this the stock system? If it's the latter then you might need to RMA your unit. Otherwise you might need to add more fluid or remove it from your case to work the air out.


It's completely stock. I did not change anything..


----------



## guinner16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AdamMT*
> 
> I think the splitter will only work properly with PWM fans.


Yup. I just ordered a different hub for my fans. the good news is I have 2 swiftech splitters for sale if anybody wants them!


----------



## AdamMT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ninoez*
> 
> It's completely stock. I did not change anything..


I'd call Swiftech and see what they say.


----------



## Alatar

Since this thread has been going on for such a long time now it really isn't news anymore. If you wish to discuss the H220 please do so in the owners thread found here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1367654/swiftech-h220-owners-club or just make a new thread in the cooling sections.

Thanks everyone.


----------

