# Logitech G502 Proteus Core !



## MightEMatt

I'll take 10 of them first day if it is.


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## e4stw00t

G400 successor utilizing the 3310, a braided (or Zowie equivalent) cable and improved mouse wheel and I go nuts!


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## Atavax

doesn't the first photo clearly say g5?


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## Mastoras78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> doesn't the first photo clearly say g5?


G1,G2,G3 macro buttons mate







Logitech always give those initials on buttons


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## xmr1

I'd be all over a G9X with a 3310 sensor.

Whatever it is, the sniper button is kind of a turn-off already.


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## Nivity

I saw 1 logitech Mice I did not recognize today on lcs with team c9 (logitech sponsored)
It is not a G602.

Is this a current for sale mouse or something new?


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## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I saw 1 logitech Mice I did not recognize today on lcs with team c9 (logitech sponsored)
> It is not a G602.
> 
> Is this a current for sale mouse or something new?


Looks new.

I'd be in to try a G9...hmmm, shall we say G9S?







with a 3310 or a G300 with a 3310.


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## Amperial

Well.. presentation is good.
Inb4 it's as ugly as their other mice.

I kinda think it will have a laser sensor.


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## maxvons

Might be the first Logitech mouse I actually like.


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## Mastoras78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> I saw 1 logitech Mice I did not recognize today on lcs with team c9 (logitech sponsored)
> It is not a G602.
> 
> Is this a current for sale mouse or something new?


I really hope the mouse on pic to NOT be the new mice. Looks fat and ugly for my taste :/


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## discoprince

just to bear clear im a DOTA 2 CLOUD 9 BELIEVER. Not a fan of League of Legends.

also, im hyped for this mouse.


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## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mastoras78*
> 
> I really hope the mouse on pic to NOT be the new mice. Looks fat and ugly for my taste :/


you mean like...G400/G500/G700/G602? Oh ok.

i think the shape looks better than anything they have in the ergonomic class.


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## Mastoras78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> you mean like...G400/G500/G700/G602? Oh ok.
> 
> i think the shape looks better than anything they have in the ergonomic class.


We have to wait and see. I would really like to see something short on height. Most of them looks like dolphins,whale,orca or something











Just got this pic from their tweeter


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## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mastoras78*
> 
> We have to wait and see. I would really like to see something short on height. Most of them looks like dolphins,whale,orca or something
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just got this pic from their tweeter


WOW
it looks HUGE, it barley looks like that small boy can hold it.

hype.....fading..................slowly.................hype..


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## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> WOW
> it looks HUGE, it barley looks like that small boy can hold it.


im just going to inb4 you what what comments here..

also, thats what she said


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## Mastoras78

yeah it looks.. big. Lets wait until full specs. Cant agree more about hype.. mine moves to zero. Anyway I guess i should also edit the misleading topic title soon


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## boogdud

Yeah hype from 100 to 0 in seconds. It looks like one of those awful microsoft "natural" mice


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## Nivity

Yepp seems like another big fat mouse.
So that is off the table for me


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## bvazx

Is it?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


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## Mastoras78

bvazx that's a G602


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## bvazx

Yes. Fist mouse looks like G602, but it isn't.


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## xSociety

Oh GOD. My g9x was going out so I bought a M45 two days ago. If this is a true g9x successor I will buy at least two ASAP. It better keep the same shape though! I don't want a fat pleb palm grip mouse!


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## xSociety

Pictures from FB:


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## Mastoras78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bvazx*
> 
> Yes. Fist mouse looks like G602, but it isn't.


Mate I can only see G602 on pics :/
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xSociety*
> 
> Oh GOD. My g9x was going out so I bought a M45 two days ago. If this is a true g9x successor I will buy at least two ASAP. It better keep the same shape though! I don't want a fat pleb palm grip mouse!


Lets wait and see. But I doubt it will. If you check the photo with the kid holding it, it looks veeery bulky. Atm M45 looks the best replacement for G9 , at least on theory


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## Atavax

what does a sniper button do?


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## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> what does a sniper button do?


It's just an extra gimmicky button that is pre-programmed to lower the DPI. You can do exactly the same with a regular sidebutton


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## metal571

Not to mention probably throws off your muscle memory lol


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## Mastoras78

first official video

If video doesn't work check this link https://www.facebook.com/logitechgaming


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## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mastoras78*
> 
> first official video
> 
> If video doesn't work check this link https://www.facebook.com/logitechgaming


Wow, somehow even after watching the video you still have no idea what it looks like. Great promo...


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## Nivity

Quite certain It is the mouse I linked c9 balls using.
Everything fits so, guess I will pass this. Big mouse zzz.


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## Mastoras78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> Wow, somehow even after watching the video you still have no idea what it looks like. Great promo...


loll I admit I was thinking exactly the same








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Quite certain It is the mouse I linked c9 balls using.
> Everything fits so, guess I will pass this. Big mouse zzz.


For some reason I would like to see some specs before I decide.. I am still a Logitech fanboy I guess :/


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## boogdud

I'm a pretty big logitech fan as well.

But I thought the ancient mx518/G400 shape looked and felt like a potato.. Judging by the shots we've seen of this one it looks like a grapefruit..

It's going to be a tough sell, for precision gamers. A gigantic full hand mouse that you have to move your entire arm? No thanks.


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## nlmiller0015

I think its called the g502 i i bought one from best buy it has like 12000 dpi


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## Mastoras78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> I think its called the g502 i i bought one from best buy it has like 12000 dpi


Seriously ? If its not April's fool extended period I would like to see pictures and specifications plz









Ouch.. G502 was the magic word I guess for my browser..


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## nlmiller0015

here are some pictures


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## Chunky_Chimp

First pic is lacking a flash so it isn't showing as much as it could... what's the source of those pics, out of curisoity?


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## Mastoras78

Congrats mate how did u got this piece ? Its not even announced yet. Can you plz give some extra info ? Lens type, weight, buttons, anything special ? or a photo of box(specs side)


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## nlmiller0015

its my pictures I bought it from best buy Ill try to post the box specs give me a sec


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## Mastoras78

I also found this info from here http://www.touslesdrivers.com/index.php?v_page=3&v_code=5033

Logitech's website has not been updated to officially announce the release of drivers LGS 8.53 we suggest you download from this morning. We still managed to glean some information about the changes. We learn that this 8.53 version brings foremost support the new mouse G502 Core Proteus (pictured above against) for which no further details have yet filtered if not it is a wired USB model . It should not soon be announced by Logitech. We also note the support of another mouse called G90 but again no details yet. This remains to be confirmed, but the compatibility of the LGS interface was improved with the mouse G602 Wireless Gaming Mouse. Note also references to a function optimization or mouse setting for carpets G240 Gaming Mouse Pad Cloth and Hard G440 Gaming Mouse Pad.

ps I feel like putting spoilers for Game of Thrones :/


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## Chunky_Chimp

Funny that they didn't fully reveal it yet but it's already up for purchase at Best Buy. Pending better pics I might actually try it, it may have better ergonomics than my G500. Edit; on closer inspection, the thumb rest is too far back for me, so I guess I'll skip it. This may be more oriented for fingertip-grippers.


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## nlmiller0015

Ill right the specs since my Bad camera cant pick it up

Resolution 200 - 12000 dpi
IPS 300
Max Acceleration 40G


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## xmr1

Looks like a freaking bat mobile. I should have known it would be another gimmick mouse from Logitech.


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## ranseed

Lol was best buy suppose to wait to sell it? looks a lot like those r.a.t mouses


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## nlmiller0015

I was going to buy the razer taipain and just saw it there so I said hey might as well give it a go


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## xSociety




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## Mastoras78

nlmiller ty man for pics and feedback. If u can just write down some of the specs I ll be gratefull. I bet by tomorrow will be already on market from multiple vendors


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## xSociety

Do you have anymore pictures for size comparison? Is it palm grip?


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## zinfinion

@nlmiller0015: Does it have a dual-mode scroll wheel, with selectable free spinning? Or is it just a standard click to click?


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## royalkilla408




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## Mastoras78

I am also disappointed from first look but at least a not confirmed source mentioned about G90. So we might see soon more new models from Logitech..


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## nlmiller0015

My Camera Skills arent great But here some more


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## xSociety

Yup, definitely not interested in this mouse.


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## ShaCanX

At first I was like: Ok this doesn't look too bad lets give it a chance. But now that I am seeing it better I am not so sure. I really love the new fat scrool wheel though. The skinny scroll wheel was almost a deal breaker for me in getting my g500s I only decided to get it as I loved the freewheel scrolling feature on my previous G500.


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## end0rphine

12000 DPI <--- says everything about Logitech's strategy for this mouse. Still curious what sensor they used, but I expect something good specially coming from a company that released that entire marketing campaign about 'science winning'


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## xSociety

Well, looks like I won't be buying Logitech anymore. I found the Corsair M45 to be an ideal replacement for my old g9x. No marketing bluff, just an amazing optical sensor mouse with no tricks to up the dpi.

Size wise it's very good as well:


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## Mastoras78

How cool these mice looks from side on 2nd photo.. like race cars







xsociety check ur inbox ty


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## metal571

CPI and IPS are unheard of here. Completely new sensor? My interest is piqued right now.


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## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xSociety*
> 
> Well, looks like I won't be buying Logitech anymore. I found the Corsair M45 to be an ideal replacement for my old g9x. No marketing bluff, just an amazing optical sensor mouse with no tricks to up the dpi.
> 
> Size wise it's very good as well:


If you could, how similar does the M45 feel to the G9X with the precision grip?


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## NitrousX

Looks kinda fugly


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## xSociety

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> If you could, how similar does the M45 feel to the G9X with the precision grip?


Very similar for me. My thumb/ring/pinky fingers are pretty much in the identical spot. The texture on the sides are also the same, but the wheel is a little harder to scroll though.

The biggest difference is the sensor, it's much more accurate and consistent.


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## trhead

Who needs 12000 DPI?! WOW


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## Mastoras78

Well this g502 at least it have 12 buttons (with scroll left-right) and I am curious about the sensor. 12k dpi ofc are overkill.

xSociety one more question. The M45's scroll wheel button feels easy to push/use? On G9 is very stiff and terrible


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## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> CPI and IPS are unheard of here. Completely new sensor? My interest is piqued right now.


x2. Interested in some sensor benchmarks.


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## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xSociety*
> 
> Very similar for me. My thumb/ring/pinky fingers are pretty much in the identical spot. The texture on the sides are also the same, but the wheel is a little harder to scroll though.
> 
> The biggest difference is the sensor, it's much more accurate and consistent.


Cool, thanks. I thought the shapes looked close from pictures but wasn't sure if it felt that way too.


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## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mastoras78*
> 
> On G9 is very stiff and terrible


Nooo, don't bring back the memories! G9 middle click is abysmal.


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## xSociety

Middle click is good, IMO. I use it for a lot of things especially in games. It's my defib, repair tool, etc button.


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## Mastoras78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> Nooo, don't bring back the memories! G9 middle click is abysmal.


At least the Left-Right wheel scroll was like u gain 2 extra button for sacrificing the middle one
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xSociety*
> 
> Middle click is good, IMO. I use it for a lot of things especially in games. It's my defib, repair tool, etc button.


Good to know thanx. At least if this one is usable is like u lose only 1 button.


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## Atavax

sigh, i thought logitech was going to stop with the stupid dpi race...


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## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> 
> My Camera Skills arent great But here some more


Sensor position and weight please.


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## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Sensor position and weight please.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1479217/upcoming-g-series-logitech-mice-g9-successor-nootttt-g502/20_20#post_22074547


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## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Sensor position and weight please.


THEY FINALLY GOT THE RIGHT SIDE CORRECT. WOW.

I might have to try this mouse. Dammit...


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## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> It's going to be a tough sell, for precision gamers. A gigantic full hand mouse that you have to move your entire arm? No thanks.


You mean like the IME 3.0 or Mionix Naos? Not a very tough sell..


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## zinfinion

*http://www.techpowerup.com/199660/logitech-launches-first-of-its-kind-logitech-g-tunable-gaming-mouse.html*






Dual-mode hyper-fast scroll wheel confirmed, suggested price of $79.99.

I might give it a swing if I can find one local.


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## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> *http://www.techpowerup.com/199660/logitech-launches-first-of-its-kind-logitech-g-tunable-gaming-mouse.html*
> 
> Dual-mode hyper-fast scroll wheel confirmed, suggested price of $79.99.
> 
> I might give it a swing if I can find one local.


_Superior Tracking
Proteus Core features the Logitech G exclusive Delta Zero technology in the world's most powerful and accurate sensor. Combining a huge DPI range of 200 all the way up to 12,000 with *zero sensor acceleration, zero smoothing or filtering, and zero pixel rounding*, the mouse is designed to deliver unparalleled tracking performance and responsiveness, and can track movement at 300 inches per second._

PTE???


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## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> PTE???


PTE??? Wikipedia gives me nothing on this acronym.







Ah, Philips Twin-Eye. Thank you based Google. Which apparently it is not given the post a few down.


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## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> PTE???


No, illumination is an IR LED. This is a totally new sensor.


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## zinfinion

@CPate: Any sort of size comparison you can give? Bigger/smaller than a G700?


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## CPate

Roughly the same dimensions as the G500s.


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## end0rphine

If anyone is interested, Amazon have it up now: http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Proteus-Tunable-Customizable-910-004074/dp/B00IRHE892/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396946539&sr=8-1&keywords=logitech+g502
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> No, illumination is an IR LED. This is a totally new sensor.


You had my curiosity. Now you have my attention. Am interested to see this first hand.


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## xmr1

Curious to hear more about the sensor in the coming weeks but the size and button overload are way too much for me.

If they jammed the sensor into a G100s and added a pair of left side buttons that would definitely capture my attention.


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## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> Roughly the same dimensions as the G500s.


Cool, my local Best Buy has it in stock so I'll know later today how well it fits me.









Link for anyone else wanting one: *http://www.bestbuy.com/site/g502-proteus-core-optical-gaming-mouse/4642008.p*


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## Majentrix

I don't understand why Logitech don't use the same sensor that the G400 has in every high-end mouse they sell.


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## CPate

This sensor is significantly better than the one in the G400/G400s. It is more accurate, has over twice the max tracking speed, and feels more responsive. Plus it has the ability to be tuned to the surface that you're using so that you get optimum speed and LOD no matter what kind of pad you use.

The G400s has a great sensor for the price, but this one really blows it away.


----------



## zinfinion

One more CPate: Can the illuminated G be turned off in the Logitech Gaming Software?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> This sensor is significantly better than the one in the G400/G400s. It is more accurate, has over twice the max tracking speed, and feels more responsive. Plus it has the ability to be tuned to the surface that you're using so that you get optimum speed and LOD no matter what kind of pad you use.
> 
> The G400s has a great sensor for the price, but this one really blows it away.


Does this new sensor qualify for your "Delta Zero" technology? nvm i see this was answered.

Any news on when you're going to put the sensor into a G100 shell or something that isn't a big ugly brick?


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## Mastoras78

Hey guys don't forget to write an early review. With enotus results if possible. Even if the mice isn't for everyones taste if the sensor is good that's good news.

I doubt Logitech listens any request.G9 user here from 07 till today begging for a new model. Forced to order yday another product from different vendor. I waited as much I could...


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## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> One more CPate: Can the illuminated G be turned off in the Logitech Gaming Software?


Yes.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Does this new sensor qualify for your "Delta Zero" technology? If so, any news on when you're going to put the sensor into a G100 shell or something that isn't a big ugly brick?


It does use Delta Zero technology, and I am not permitted to discuss plans for future products.


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## Nivity

So ye was the mouse I saw on LCS.

Yet another big fat mouse. Thanks but no thanks.

PS. Your logitech G400 had amazing price and the best sensor you ever had.
The g400s more then doubled the price and have a worse performance.

All in all, a imo useless big mouse with a ton of crappy buttons.

I wish you put some more thought into making smaller mice like Steelseries does, and not just focus on big fat heavy mice.
PS G100s is a decent mouse but far from what It could be.

So many better smaller mice out there.
And mice like Corsair M45 which rivals the g9x abit with a 3310 sensor.

The price is also extreme. 85 euro here, 100% not worth that kind of money.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> Yes.
> It does use Delta Zero technology, and I am not permitted to discuss plans for future products.


Worth a shot. Super hyped about the sensor, everyone should be. But that shell







.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majentrix*
> 
> I don't understand why Logitech don't use the same sensor that the G400 has in every high-end mouse they sell.


It looks like you dislike progress...? Where would we be right now if everyone was thinking the same?

I can understand scepticism towards new sensors, but you need to try it yourself to make a decision. I think this mouse is looking like it's going in the right direction. If the stats on it are true ( and I have no reason to doubt that because they were correct in previous releases too) this is a true succesor of the G500(s).


----------



## zinfinion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> Yes.


Awesome, and also awesome that you popped into this thread the minute the official news broke.


----------



## CPate

I've been watching the thread since it was first posted. This product has been a long time coming.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> So ye was the mouse I saw on LCS.
> 
> Yet another big fat mouse. Thanks but no thanks.
> 
> PS. Your logitech G400 had amazing price and the best sensor you ever had.
> The g400s more then doubled the price and have a worse performance.
> 
> All in all, a imo useless big mouse with a ton of crappy buttons.
> 
> I wish you put some more thought into making smaller mice like Steelseries does, and not just focus on big fat heavy mice.
> PS G100s is a decent mouse but far from what It could be.
> 
> So many better smaller mice out there.
> And mice like Corsair M45 which rivals the g9x abit with a 3310 sensor.
> 
> The price is also extreme. 85 euro here, 100% not worth that kind of money.


Well, I guess this mouse isn't for you, but most people actually seem to prefer a bigger ergo mouse. So it makes sense to go with the flagship model first. If G9(x) was as great as people here claim then the selling numbers must have been in regions where Logitech is highly considering creating a successor. But if they weren't: it won't happen.

The fact that this has a completely new sensor is enough for me to consider buying it. I'll just wait for it to appear in local shops so I can try the shape.


----------



## xmr1

Well if the sensor description and specs are taken at face value, that's all anyone could ever ask for in a sensor, and it will probably only be a matter of time before it is introduced into other form factors. I did also notice CPate previously had a G100s avatar so maybe that's a good omen.


----------



## Nivity

The sensor sounds interesting, and looking forward to seeing some test about "no smoothing" etc.

However the shell is 100% horrible, Its like they looked at R.A.T mice and decided we want a transformers mouse aswell.
But bigger and even more clumsy from what I can see.
PS. "sniper" buttons are just downright horrible.

Will try it when we get it in store at work.

But for 85euro it would require a MUCH better shell for me to buy.
Enough large mice on the market already with good sensors.
Rival is 40euro.
Avior and naos 7000 is 50 euro.
So 35-45 euro MORE for this mouse.

It is the smaller once that are lacking good sensors.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> The sensor sounds interesting, and looking forward to seeing some test about "no smoothing" etc.
> 
> However the shell is 100% horrible, Its like they looked at R.A.T mice and decided we want a transformers mouse aswell.
> But bigger and even more clumsy from what I can see.
> 
> Will try it when we get it in store at work.
> 
> But for 85euro it would require a MUCH better shell for me to buy.
> Enough large mice on the market already with good sensors.
> 
> It is the smaller once that are lacking good sensors.


I feel you, as I prefer smaller ambis like the G100s or like Zowies FK too. But if this comes out in a G100 like shell it's going to be awesomesauce. So here's hoping


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

With the better pics and re-evaluating how I normally hold mice, I suppose it's not so unsuitable for me... time to dig out all the Best Buy gift cards I've collected over the past while.







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> I've been watching the thread since it was first posted. This product has been a long time coming.


As you said you aren't allowed to comment on future plans, but is/was there any interest in making something like this but with an Evoluent-ish shape? It would practically market itself, gaming features with a gaming sensor and software but with a "natural ergonomic shape" as with an Evoluent. There may be patent roadblocks but other similar mice have gotten around that, so why not Logitech for this series?


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> The sensor sounds interesting, and looking forward to seeing some test about "no smoothing" etc.
> 
> However the shell is 100% horrible, Its like they looked at R.A.T mice and decided we want a transformers mouse aswell.
> But bigger and even more clumsy from what I can see.
> 
> Will try it when we get it in store at work.
> 
> But for 85euro it would require a MUCH better shell for me to buy.
> Enough large mice on the market already with good sensors.
> 
> It is the smaller once that are lacking good sensors.
> 
> 
> 
> I feel you, as I prefer smaller ambis like the G100s or like Zowies FK too. But if this comes out in a G100 like shell it's going to be awesomesauce. So here's hoping
Click to expand...

I am indeed interested in the sensor if what they say are infact true (not taking any words from marketing)
And if It would come in a smaller formfactor mouse I would buy it day1 for sure.


----------



## Mastoras78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> I've been watching the thread since it was first posted. This product has been a long time coming.


Well since you are watching this thread from the day it started you know how much we.. suffer







. Any chance to throw a bone for G9 series lovers ?

examples: blink your left eye 2 times and stand on one foot if a successor is coming etc etc


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*
> 
> With the better pics and re-evaluating how I normally hold mice, I suppose As you said you aren't allowed to comment on future plans, but is/was there any interest in making something like this but with an Evoluent-ish shape? It would practically market itself, gaming features with a gaming sensor and software but with a "natural ergonomic shape" as with an Evoluent. There may be patent roadblocks but other similar mice have gotten around that, so why not Logitech for this series?


As you said, I can't comment on future products directly, but I do read all feedback (positive and negative) and take it into consideration when I'm looking at the future product roadmap.


----------



## Derp

"Weight: 145 grams (mouse only)"

That's with all of the weights installed right? RIGHT?!?!

so 127g without weights?


----------



## vss vintorez

I'm going to buy this right away, I want to test that sensor







.


----------



## CPate

No, Derp, it is 145 grams empty. It is a very heavy mouse compared to what you like. It is similar to the G500s. The scroll wheel is a solid piece of metal.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> No, Derp, it is 145 grams empty. It is a very heavy mouse compared to what you like. It is similar to the G500s. The scroll wheel is a solid piece of metal.


Thanks for the clarification. I was going to buy this thing just to play with the sensor regardless of the poor shape. I'm using a G400 now anyways so it wouldn't be that much of a difference but that weight is just too much.


----------



## xmr1

I wonder how long it will be before people start making some crazy Frankenmice with this sensor.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> No, Derp, it is 145 grams empty. It is a very heavy mouse compared to what you like. It is similar to the G500s. The scroll wheel is a solid piece of metal.


Holy, that's pretty insane. I think DA/Rival is on the edge of to heavy at ~110 gram... But then with all the extra buttons and rubber grip it doesn't interest me anyway.


----------



## Mastoras78

http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/g502-proteus-core-tunable-gaming-mouse Specifications on Official site is now up


----------



## dynastes

It might be heavy and seems a little clunky as well, still I'd very much like to see, how it performs. Hopefully there will be a review up as soon as its available


----------



## Kimir

Interesting sensor. Don't know if that mouse will have enough boutton for me tho, I'm getting use to the G600 and all those button on my thumb.

I've always had Logitech mouse/keyboard, starting with the Cordless Comfort Duo keyboard+mouse back in the day. Since then I have used the g500, g9/g9x and now the G600.
I also have the MediaPlay Cordless Mouse for when I'm in my bed watching series/movies and this one refrains me to purchase the Logitech product again, eyes closed.
Why? because of the software! The last release of Setpoint (from august 2k13) has sleep issue and using any version is making an error at every shutdown.








The Gaming software had his issue at the start (memory) but now it's fine.
It's too bad that non gaming device such as the mediaplay and the illuminated keyboard still require that broken SetPoint over the Gaming Software. Yeah they aren't gaming stuff, but c'mon...
I was also looking into mechanical keyboard lately, the G710+ seems good but only brown switches available, god why no red/black.
Sorry for the off topic.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> As you said, I can't comment on future products directly, but I do read all feedback (positive and negative) and take it into consideration when I'm looking at the future product roadmap.


Well, my question was more like, was/is that sort of product under consideration? If it was before but isn't now, I'm wondering if you can't answer that, either.


----------



## SpartanVXL

Oh wow this just might be my new mouse. Can you give any info on a release date in New Zealand CPate?


----------



## Nivity

145grams without weights, that is insane weight tbh.

It is like one of the heaviest mice ever made, holy batman.
That is almost the weight of a G700 wireless mouse with batteries, that is just to much.

Thanks for checking the weight, now It is 100% certain I will never buy this mouse.

G400 is atleast ok in weight (around 100-110 grams) but 140+ that is just insane.

Kinda funny they did not even try to make a G9 sucessor, the mouse sold very well and was used all over the world.
But instead they make a RAT copy heavy as iron.

Sorry to sound harsh but kinda dissapointed logitech is going this way with their products.


----------



## boogdud

Looks much better than the spy pics we saw early in the thread (I honestly thought it looked like one of those ergonomic mice). I guess the perspective is a bit off when they player using it has tiny tiny hands. It doesn't look _that_ big now. However, it looks just to bulky for me. I'll likely give it a try as I do with all of Logitech's products, but the extreme weight really turns me off, it's just a couple grams lighter than the g602 which is wireless and has two aa batteries inside (and this is without weights).

So I guess this is definitely not the product that us fans of the g9 have been waiting for. I'm sure you're well aware of this, but there is a pretty big market craving a replacement product.

This mouse seems like the replacement for the g500. Which I suppose will please folks that like that mouse. However, you can still get a g500s if that's your thing. But us g9 folks are left in the cold.

You've been on this forum for a while, I don't think I have to tell you how badly people want a g9 successor.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> Yes.
> It does use Delta Zero technology, and I am not permitted to discuss plans for future products.


I love how this mouse looks. Seems perfect for my palm grip. Only thing putting me off is weight, but I'll get used to it. Is the sensor a variation of the PIXART 3310? Can you change the colors of the LED?


----------



## vss vintorez

CPate I would like to know more about the sensor, denomination; fps and... is the angle snapping settable in different levels ?


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> As you said, I can't comment on future products directly, but I do read all feedback (positive and negative) and take it into consideration when I'm looking at the future product roadmap.


Can you give us any information about the LOD?


----------



## MLJS54

Seeing design/weight like that makes me appreciate Zowie so much more.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Seeing design/weight like that makes me appreciate Zowie so much more.


Why? I'd rather see some sort of innovation with new sensors built from the ground up and new designs etc. than just IME 3.0 and 1.1/WMO copies with 3090 sensors. But I love Zowie mice too.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> Why? I'd rather see some sort of innovation with new sensors built from the ground up and new designs etc. than just IME 3.0 and 1.1/WMO copies with 3090 sensors. But I love Zowie mice too.


In today's market, light, small, simple, accurate mice with no bloatware ARE innovative....


----------



## CeeSA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> .....
> Rival is 40euro.
> Avior and naos 7000 is 50 euro.


Where do you get those prices? Very cheap.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CeeSA*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> .....
> Rival is 40euro.
> Avior and naos 7000 is 50 euro.
> 
> 
> 
> Where do you get those prices? Very cheap.
Click to expand...

Sweden.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> Why? I'd rather see some sort of innovation with new sensors built from the ground up and new designs etc. than just IME 3.0 and 1.1/WMO copies with 3090 sensors. But I love Zowie mice too.


Id almost agree, if not for the fact that every single ime 3.0 and 1.1 copy all suffer from some very extreme issues..

one being, not even the same shape or size
two being horrible coatings.

Gimme one ime 3.0 and 1.1 clone with updated hardware, thats awesome and ill agree with you


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Seeing design/weight like that makes me appreciate Zowie so much more.
> 
> 
> 
> Why? I'd rather see some sort of innovation with new sensors built from the ground up and new designs etc. than just IME 3.0 and 1.1/WMO copies with 3090 sensors. But I love Zowie mice too.
Click to expand...

innovation in design?
Yes It does not look like a rat or anything









Sensor innovation is nice, shape "innovation" fails most times.
And in this case 145gram and a big bulky mice = yuck.


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SpartanVXL*
> 
> Oh wow this just might be my new mouse. Can you give any info on a release date in New Zealand CPate?


Impossible to give a 100% accurate date, but the product should be available in most countries by the end of April or possibly mid-May. The distribution chain can be long and convoluted, so it's difficult to say with confidence when it might be available in a specific country.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> I love how this mouse looks. Seems perfect for my palm grip. Only thing putting me off is weight, but I'll get used to it. Is the sensor a variation of the PIXART 3310? Can you change the colors of the LED?


We don't discuss the specific details (part numbers, manufacturers, etc) of any of our components, but I can say that it is a brand new sensor that is not in use in any other product on the market. LED color cannot be changed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> CPate I would like to know more about the sensor, denomination; fps and... is the angle snapping settable in different levels ?


Angle snapping has two settings - on or off. Default is off.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> Can you give us any information about the LOD?


LOD is not a fixed value on any sensor, but surface tuning helps it stay down around 1 CD irrespective of surface.


----------



## royalkilla408

Meh. Too big it seems but I'd have to try it. (What's the weight of the mouse with and without weights?)
I love Logitech wheel (best in the business).
Sensor would have to be tested to see if it really is good as described by Logitech (doubt it).
What type of switches for the buttons?


----------



## Arc0s

Ordered one from amazon to try out the sensor.


----------



## Mastoras78

I would like to see more revolutionary technology. New sensors are nice. Why not new lightweight materials. What about cables.. can they become lighter/thicker? Dpi race becomes old. Some people still prefer old models because current technology isn't that innovating. I feel Logitech is on good track, just don't be afraid to make bigger steps


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> In today's market, light, small, simple, accurate mice with no bloatware ARE innovative....


No, that is not innovative. It's just appealing to a certain audience. I love Zowie mice because they appeal to me, but I can very much appreciate the innovation that Logitech does. This sensor sounds amazing, and if Logitech rises the game to new levels it will only be good for us customers, because others will need to catch up.

Logitech is the only real innovator right now, that should be rewarded, at least respected.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> No, that is not innovative. It's just appealing to a certain audience. I love Zowie mice because they appeal to me, but I can very much appreciate the innovation that Logitech does. This sensor sounds amazing, and if Logitech rises the game to new levels it will only be good for us customers, because others will need to catch up.
> 
> Logitech is the only real innovator right now, that should be rewarded, at least respected.


I can concede that point. I guess I should say, we don't see any innovation towards new lightweight materials, more streamlined designs and on-board featuresets. But yes, at least Logitech is trying to move the bar forward.


----------



## Derp

I would personally be interested in what the hell kind of gaming audience is interested in a 163g wired palm mouse with a free spinning wheel.


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *royalkilla408*
> 
> Meh. Too big it seems but I'd have to try it. (What's the weight of the mouse with and without weights?)
> I love Logitech wheel (best in the business).
> Sensor would have to be tested to see if it really is good as described by Logitech (doubt it).
> What type of switches for the buttons?


Again, I am not at liberty to discuss specific component vendors or part numbers but we tend to use the same microswitches in all of our gaming mice. With Proteus Core we've put microswitches or mini-microswitches under every button except the wheel, which uses a tac switch because a microswitch won't fit.


----------



## Atavax

maybe i'm being childish, but i have to giggle a little at a 145gram mouse (i assume you meant 145gram not including cable?) having a 300 inches per sec max speed. Who is going to fling a 145 gram mouse 300 inches per second?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> maybe i'm being childish, but i have to giggle a little at a 145gram mouse (i assume you meant 145gram not including cable?) having a 300 inches per sec max speed. Who is going to fling a 145 gram mouse 300 inches per second?


Any low sense RAT 7/9 user...


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I would personally be interested in what the hell kind of gaming audience is interested in a 163g wired palm mouse with a free spinning wheel.


The other 99,9% who are not on OCN, they have already brought out the G100s, which is very niche, so logical step was bringing out something like the G502.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Logitech is the only real innovator right now, that should be rewarded, at least respected.


Innovation, maybe, maybe not, but i like that they make investments and take risks.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> No, that is not innovative. It's just appealing to a certain audience. I love Zowie mice because they appeal to me, but I can very much appreciate the innovation that Logitech does. This sensor sounds amazing, and if Logitech rises the game to new levels it will only be good for us customers, because others will need to catch up.
> 
> Logitech is the only real innovator right now, that should be rewarded, at least respected.


is it innovative or is it basically an early, proprietary version of an incoming sensor for all, like the deathadder 2013 having an earlier, proprietary version of the 3310?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> The other 99,9% who are not on OCN, they have already brought out the G100s, which is very niche, so logical step was bringing out something like the G502.


The market has a gaping hole in it for a no holds barred g100/G9x shaped mouse with a good sensor just like this new sensor claims to be. The G100s was gimped from the get go.

Again, this is sold as a gaming mouse and at 163g with weights and a free spinning wheel. I don't see who this appeals to for gaming needs. Maybe a really expensive office mouse.


----------



## dakkadakka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> Roughly the same dimensions as the G500s.


*Hi CPate, is the feel of the hand on the G502 shape more similar to G602 or G500s?*

I absolutely love the shape of the G602, and when I first saw the G502 name, it felt like my prayers for a wired version of G602 have been answered.
Then I saw the pictures and the mouse shape looks to me like a mix of G602 front and left sides with G500s back and right sides.


----------



## CPate

It is more similar to G500s than G602.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> is it innovative or is it basically an early, proprietary version of an incoming sensor for all, like the deathadder 2013 having an earlier, proprietary version of the 3310?


Well, CPate stated that it's built from the ground up, I have no reason not to trust him.


----------



## Amperial

The only thing i am interested is the sensor. It hasn't been tested yet so care on what the marketing specs are.
If it passes the tests than it's good. Atm it stays the usual marketing.

While i trust Logitech cuz François Morier. That guy understands everything a gamer wants.

However i don't get how companies do not know what people expect.
Making it 145g and adding weights? Excuse me. No need to commend on that one.

No need to rush aswell, i am satisfied with my Rival.
I rather work on improving my overall gameplay than blowing my money on a new mouse again.


----------



## maxvons

[/quote]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> It is more similar to G500s than G602.


Is the right side supposed to hold both your ring and pinky fingers together like with the Rival or Deathadder, or is it more like the G500s/G400s, where you have the ring finger on top of the ledge next to the right button?


----------



## royalkilla408

Just read the weight of the mouse. Wow! Super heavy!! Why even include a weight system? Who in their right mind would want to add more weight to this mouse? Crazy. Would have been better to leave that weight system off and make the mouse cheaper. Definitely won't be buying it.


----------



## jsx3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> is it innovative or is it basically an early, proprietary version of an incoming sensor for all, like the deathadder 2013 having an earlier, proprietary version of the 3310?


3310 and 3988 are different sensors. Different limitations and implementation of design.


----------



## SuprUsrStan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> No, Derp, it is 145 grams empty. It is a very heavy mouse compared to what you like. It is similar to the G500s. The scroll wheel is a solid piece of metal.


145 grams isn't too bad. The Naga 2014 is rated at 135 grams. 145 is just slightly more. The Performance MX is around 171 grams with two double AA batteries. The G602 is 130g with one battery and 153g with two batteries.

145g isn't super light but it's not heavy either. It's somewhere in the middle.


----------



## Ino.

Weight is completely dependent on shape too. A heavier mouse with a good grip might be better than a light mouse with a bad shape etc. Always have to try for yourself.


----------



## Ice009

So how many people in this thread have already got the mouse? I'm willing to give it a try just based on the sensor alone. No idea if I would like the weight or shape of the mouse though. I'm in Australia, so not sure how long it would take to get here.

What tests do you guys run when trying out new mice and their sensors? I assume that there is a program that you mouse gurus use?


----------



## SuprUsrStan

I just ordered one from Amazon but I'm not gonna lie, I absolutely hate the two G buttons next to the left mouse click button. It makes the click button smaller and you always catch the edge of the two (DPI?) buttons. You always end up rolling your index finger to the right to properly click.


----------



## ronal

Looks like a great mouse for MMO's and maybe FPS (if the sensor is good). I might end up buying this for WoD when it comes out and if the sensor is good, I'll keep it for CSGO too.


----------



## SuprUsrStan

The G502 and the G602 looks almost identical in shape and overall form factor. I just hope the sensor really is that much better. The G602 felt a bit sluggish to me compared to my Naga 2014.


----------



## JustinSane

I might try this as my DA 2013 left click is going out... again. Can the DPI buttons be mapped to not change DPI and do other things? Shape looks good, just worried about adjusting to the weight. Shouldn't be too bad though.


----------



## khabme

I hoped this new Logitech G9x .... turned regular trash


----------



## Antero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *khabme*
> 
> I hoped this new Logitech G9x .... turned regular trash


There's also a Logitech G90 coming sometime, hopefully it's the g9x's successor.


----------



## Puck

People will complain about anything lol. A brand new mouse using a totally fresh sensor with potential to be the most accurate sensor EVER, tunable for surface lift off, not only tunable weight but tunable weight bias front/back/side/side, programmable buttons, and Logitech's epic durability...and people complain about how it looks in pictures or that its middle of the road weight LOL. Keep in mind a 10-15g heavier mouse that is held palm grip will feel lighter then a claw grip mouse that weighs less due to how you are holding it.

Bestbuy 20 minutes from me shows them in stock, might go pick one up today. My trusty G9x will become my backup mouse if it is as good as I hope - and my 9 year old G5 that STILL WORKS FLAWLESSLY will be my "backup backup mouse"







.


----------



## Nilizum

I wonder if they will do a Logitech G402


----------



## SuprUsrStan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> I wonder if they will do a Logitech G402


Likewise, I always like the overall feel of the Performance MX and G700 mouse. If they had a G702 that was light but a good claw mouse that is also palmable at times, that would be awesome.









The ability to go from a comfortable palm while browsing the web to a claw while gaming is always a good thing.


----------



## discoprince

a wired G602, nice.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> People will complain about anything lol. A brand new mouse using a totally fresh sensor with potential to be the most accurate sensor EVER, tunable for surface lift off, not only tunable weight but tunable weight bias front/back/side/side, programmable buttons, and Logitech's epic durability...and people complain about how it looks in pictures or that its middle of the road weight LOL. Keep in mind a 10-15g heavier mouse that is held palm grip will feel lighter then a claw grip mouse that weighs less due to how you are holding it.
> 
> Bestbuy 20 minutes from me shows them in stock, might go pick one up today. My trusty G9x will become my backup mouse if it is as good as I hope - and my 9 year old G5 that STILL WORKS FLAWLESSLY will be my "backup backup mouse"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Do you know anything about if it it's stock at Best Buy in Florida?


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *khabme*
> 
> I hoped this new Logitech G9x .... turned regular trash


How is this bad?


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> Is the right side supposed to hold both your ring and pinky fingers together like with the Rival or Deathadder, or is it more like the G500s/G400s, where you have the ring finger on top of the ledge next to the right button?


My opinion is that it is more comfortable to put my ring finger on the side, but the ridge is wide enough to accommodate having it be on top instead if that is your preferred grip.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Antero*
> 
> There's also a Logitech G90 coming sometime, hopefully it's the g9x's successor.


G90 is a variant of G100s that will be shipped in China only.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> My opinion is that it is more comfortable to put my ring finger on the side, but the ridge is wide enough to accommodate having it be on top instead if that is your preferred grip.
> G90 is a variant of G100s that will be shipped in China only.


So you can actually put both fingers under it? Because you can't do that on the G400s.


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> So you can actually put both fingers under it? Because you can't do that on the G400s.


I can, yes. The ridge from the G400s is not present. You can see a rotatable 3D rendering of the Proteus Core on the product page of our website.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> I can, yes. The ridge from the G400s is not present. You can see a rotatable 3D rendering of the Proteus Core on the product page of our website.


But your fingers don't feel overly cramped while doing it, do they?


----------



## Mastoras78




----------



## treach

Sorry but it cant be good, g400 succsessor with 3310, no button lag, no smoothing now!!!!

You would make so much money but you have no idea how to make good mice anymore, we live in 2014 and mice are becoming worse....


----------



## Yahar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> G90 is a variant of G100s that will be shipped in China only.


Noo, we need this very much in Europe! What's with the lack of small mice? Or will there be a G102?

Also it doesn't need to be low budget mouse, don't gimp it like g100s was with low-end parts.


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> But your fingers don't feel overly cramped while doing it, do they?


They don't. However, the way I hold the mouse is not necessarily the way that you hold it, so I'm not sure that my personal experience is a great indicator of whether the product will be comfortable for you.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> I can, yes. The ridge from the G400s is not present. You can see a rotatable 3D rendering of the Proteus Core on the product page of our website.


I applaud you that you finally got rid of the ridge, that was my single highest pain point with the Logitech shape of the G500 and G400 series of mice.


----------



## Snakesoul

I think it's great Logitech launches a new mouse with a new sensor.Is it good lookin? sure is and no matter what, it's a innovative sensor.
For me personally and from what I've been reading ita a bit heavy, and it does have too many buttons, but I'm not going to be pessimist until I try one. i'm a fps gamer, but i'm aware there's a high percentage of people playing other games types like dota2 or lol, and those games requires a lot of buttons.. (pay attention to what cpate say in his video, not the raging part lol loved his humor btw )
If I want a smaller mouse that fit my needs and grip? sure do, but after buying a lots of mice and testing them, the truth is, I always come back to old G400..(even that right horrendous right lip is no longer that big problem).. Is it totally comfy? No, but from all the mices I tested it's the only one providing all my gaming needs.
I'm just going to wait to see if it's there some new models launched by Logitech, like g400 (after all it's the successor of mx 518)..
So why you all loosing hope, when you know Logitech it's a company that cares for their costumers?







just give it some time to see how things end up and we might have the models we love.


----------



## metal571

I just can't wait to see someone take apart the G502 and tell us what the hell sensor and switches are in there. That and Enotus PCS testing and I want to see what jitter looks like at 12000 CPI assuming that is a native step.

Here's a question for the Logitech rep: Is every step from 200 to 12000 CPI a native step on this new sensor?


----------



## Amperial

By the way.
Inb4 the weight is with cable included. Aimed at 140ish.

Didn't get cleared up inhere, did it?


----------



## dynastes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amperial*
> 
> By the way.
> Inb4 the weight is with cable included. Aimed at 140ish.
> 
> Didn't get cleared up inhere, did it?


140 grams with cable? Logitech's specification sheet states differently and right now this is the most reliable source









--> http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/g502-proteus-core-tunable-gaming-mouse


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Weight is completely dependent on shape too. A heavier mouse with a good grip might be better than a light mouse with a bad shape etc. Always have to try for yourself.


While I agree to a point. Being someone who's attempted to use mouse this heavy after something like the FK, shape doesn't really matter when you reach the point when moving the
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dynastes*
> 
> 140 grams with cable? Logitech's specification sheet states differently and right now this is the most reliable source
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --> http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/g502-proteus-core-tunable-gaming-mouse


I was just about to post this.


----------



## Amperial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dynastes*
> 
> 140 grams with cable? Logitech's specification sheet states differently and right now this is the most reliable source
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --> http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/g502-proteus-core-tunable-gaming-mouse


Sorry for my lazyness, didn't check rofl.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

Looks like a mouse that would appeal to the bigger audience.

Kinda makes me curious in how many times the sort of predecessor "G500" has been sold and has made a profit for logitech.

Or what mice have been sold the most in there history or have made the biggest impact on there bank balance









G400, G500, G100, G9(x)?

My bet would be on the g400 following up by the g500.

Ofcourse they want a succesor to keep up the sales of the older best selling shapes/models/versions.
Looking at the g502 its a really nice follow up for the people that like/used the g500.

And looks like a model that would sell well for the main audience but curious if we will see it used by more profesional e-sports players or they stay away from it.

Sensor performance could be the trigger for them, so that audience would pick up the mouse aswell.
And reading about it makes me believe it will be good and sell/interest the whole market.

For product line up, developing newer models of older mice is a safe bet.
Makes me curious if logitech will ever release a really new shape/model or keep further developping there well know older models.

Then for developing new products I would love if they would look at a mouse from a e-sport perspective.
And not from a mass appealing perspective ofc. that aint the best strategy as a company you want to make the biggest profit.
But I would greatly appreciate if one compagny would try to make a mouse that would slide at the same resistance/effort everytime.

Because for example as a FPS player you want to have consistency, so no acceleration and a pad that gives the same resistance or good stopping power everytime.
Mousefeet that aswell help to give the same feeling at every resistance you give on the top of the mouse and sliding speed you are giving on the shape.

So develop a mouse from a sience perspective, measure the friction wich material gives the most consistent friction all the time at all global speeds used.
What shape of mousefeet would help for the consistency, round onces or exactly shaped as the mouse edges or squares onces.
The pad should be develop in conjunction with the mouse so overal everything is consistent at every mouse speed you get the same feeling so overal mastering aim would be easier and mouse movement more precise seeing you can handle the mouse and it will feel as a real extension of youre arm/movement and doing globally evertime the same.
What colour of pad, would help sensor performance what material/roughness pattern in the pad would increase its accuracy and consistent gliding performance.
Test peoples sliding speeds what speeds are most common take an average and develop for that speed to be consistent.

Make it ambidextrous both sides same feeling no extra buttons for dpi.
Just software to set it up onces so you have no chance of ever changing the dpi when you dont want to.

Ow well should stop blattering about but my take is devolop a mouse + pad arround consistent behaviour because that would make the best mouse. Because highest m/s and accuracu or high dpi are almost no bottlenecks anymore.

So think outside the box use different materials test frictions etc.. conjunction s of materials colours patterns measure average m/s and focus on consistent behaviour of mouse sliding stopping.

It would give a next level for developing a mouse.


----------



## Boinz

If it's as big as my old Intellimouse Explorer, I'll be in love.


----------



## CPate

I broke out my scale and checked the weight of the mouse again. It was incorrect. The actual weight of the mouse with no cable is approximately 121 grams, which is approximately 10 grams heavier than G500s with no cable. It is still 168 grams with the cable. I'm having the website updated. I apologize for the incorrect information. This is something we should have seen before we went live.


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Here's a question for the Logitech rep: Is every step from 200 to 12000 CPI a native step on this new sensor?


You can call me Chris. And yes, native 50 DPI steps from 200-12000.


----------



## Amperial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> I broke out my scale and checked the weight of the mouse again. It was incorrect. The actual weight of the mouse with no cable is approximately 121 grams, which is approximately 10 grams heavier than G500s with no cable. It is still 168 grams with the cable. I'm having the website updated. I apologize for the incorrect information. This is something we should have seen before we went live.


Kinda feels i actually made changes into something, my heart is going to explode.
In all seriousness.. i guess this calmed some peoples minds. Mine included.

The weight shouldn't be bothering people who use a Rival or an AVIOR in any way.


----------



## Mastoras78

I have one question about weight. 121 - 168 without the tuning weights, right ? Sorry if its already answered


----------



## Amperial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mastoras78*
> 
> I have one question about weight. 121 - 168 without the tuning weights, right ? Sorry if its already answered


Correct, 121 without the weights.


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mastoras78*
> 
> I have one question about weight. 121 - 168 without the tuning weights, right ? Sorry if its already answered


I did not already answer, but yes - 121 and 168 are without tuning weights inserted.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> They don't. However, the way I hold the mouse is not necessarily the way that you hold it, so I'm not sure that my personal experience is a great indicator of whether the product will be comfortable for you.


Good, I will most likely buy it now.


----------



## Mastoras78

Lol


----------



## Puck

Just picked one up, the only one in central FL.

I'll post some info on it tonight, building a rig for a friend first.


----------



## Antero

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> My opinion is that it is more comfortable to put my ring finger on the side, but the ridge is wide enough to accommodate having it be on top instead if that is your preferred grip.
> G90 is a variant of G100s that will be shipped in China only.


You just crushed my dreams. Sooo the question is. When are you guys actually making a g9x successor?


----------



## dvnx

Hi Chris, will the mouse be comfortable enough or feel close for someone (like me) who has been using the Microsoft IME 3.0 for over years?

Also, do you guys have anything specific in mind to cater for users like us if the future roadmap implies, seeing how competitors such as Steelseries and CM Storm have tried (arguably) create a mouse design similar or close to the Microsoft IME 3.0 shape.

_P.S: I hold my IME 3.0 with my hands further behind the mouse, while having a hybrid of fingertip and claw grip. My 2nd and 3rd finger (left and right click respectively) rests nearer to the divider between the mouse click and the center shell of the IME 3.0 for indication_


----------



## Atavax

chris, is the mouse ergonomically designed to be comfortable for both palm and claw grip users? Or just palm grip?


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dvnx*
> 
> Hi Chris, will the mouse be comfortable enough or feel close for someone (like me) who has been using the Microsoft IME 3.0 for over years?
> 
> Also, do you guys have anything specific in mind to cater for users like us if the future roadmap implies, seeing how competitors such as Steelseries and CM Storm have tried (arguably) create a mouse design similar or close to the Microsoft IME 3.0 shape.
> 
> _P.S: I hold my IME 3.0 with my hands further behind the mouse, while having a hybrid of fingertip and claw grip. My 2nd and 3rd finger (left and right click respectively) rests nearer to the divider between the mouse click and the center shell of the IME 3.0 for indication_


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> chris, is the mouse ergonomically designed to be comfortable for both palm and claw grip users? Or just palm grip?


Answering both of you at the same time as best I can. The mouse is very similar dimensionally to the G500s, and is compatible with the hand sizes and grip styles that work with that mouse. If the G500s is a palm-grip mouse for you, Proteus Core will be as well. For me, with a 20cm hand (base of palm to end of middle finger) it is a fingertip grip mouse.


----------



## blackmesatech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Just picked one up, the only one in central FL.
> 
> I'll post some info on it tonight, building a rig for a friend first.


Will you be posting Enotus tests?


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> innovation in design?
> Yes It does not look like a rat or anything
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sensor innovation is nice, shape "innovation" fails most times.
> And in this case 145gram and a big bulky mice = yuck.


I don't think it looks a like a rat at all. It reminds me more of the G500s and G602 combined than anything else.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Just picked one up, the only one in central FL.
> 
> I'll post some info on it tonight, building a rig for a friend first.


Please do post Enotus results and remember not to touch the buttons while swiping as fast as possible.


----------



## Ice009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Please do post Enotus results and remember not to touch the buttons while swiping as fast as possible.


I'll have to download Enotus and try that with whatever new mouse I get. Is there any other programs that mouse gurus such as yourself use to test mice? Or is it pretty much just Enotus and drawing in paint?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ice009*
> 
> I'll have to download Enotus and try that with whatever new mouse I get. Is there any other programs you mouse gurus use for testing mice? Or is it just Enotus and drawing in paint?


I also verify polling rate stability by looking at the results of Direct Input Mouse Rate tool as I move the mouse around.


----------



## xmr1

Existing technology like PixArt's 3310 already had way more DPI and max PCS than I'll ever use, so I'm mainly just interested in how much merit there is to the claims of this new "Delta Zero" sensor having zero smoothing and being super accurate and responsive.

Is this something you could elaborate on Chris, or is it something we have to try and feel for ourselves?


----------



## Atavax

i picked one up. Will be the perfect mouse for my drinking and cs buddy if i end up disliking it.

is the scroll wheel supposed to be loose? Its rattling... I don't even need to move it quickly. moving the mouse very slowly makes a audible rattling sound. Ok, changing the scroll wheel to precise mode makes it a bit better for casual web browsing at least

also should there be any negative side effect to playing without the door for the weights? figured i can use to lose as much weight as possible, even if its just a gram or two.

other then the weight, ergonomically its quite comfortable and works for me in a claw grip. the only place there might be an issue is the side mouse buttons accidentally getting clicked by my thumb.

also, chris, is there a name for the sensor model?

so far i've gotten this beast to register 4.82 mps at 400 dpi and 1000hz. might be my arm being the limit more then the sensor... going to reformat my main harddrive, my pc has been acting up, plus on a fresh slate and without flash installed, i can probably best judge how reactive the sensor is.


----------



## kamo

Logitech please new G3 with 3090 or 3310 sensor


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> Existing technology like PixArt's 3310 already had way more DPI and max PCS than I'll ever use, so I'm mainly just interested in how much merit there is to the claims of this new "Delta Zero" sensor having zero smoothing and being super accurate and responsive.
> 
> Is this something you could elaborate on Chris, or is it something we have to try and feel for ourselves?


Delta Zero technology is a suite of things that we do to deliver tracking performance that has no perceptible speed-related accuracy variance (aka acceleration).

The responsiveness of the sensor is one aspect of this technology development effort. It's not something that I can easily describe other than it feels more responsive than any mouse I've used before. And clearly, this is a difficult claim for me to back up over a forum.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> is the scroll wheel supposed to be loose? Its rattling... I don't even need to move it quickly. moving the mouse very slowly makes a audible rattling sound. Ok, changing the scroll wheel to precise mode makes it a bit better for casual web browsing at least
> 
> also should there be any negative side effect to playing without the door for the weights? figured i can use to lose as much weight as possible, even if its just a gram or two.


The sound you're hearing is related to pretravel on the horizontal axis of the wheel, and is normal. Since the wheel has to have full XYZ motion (tilt left/right, scroll forward/backward, and click downward) and the mass on the wheel is more significant than on other products in order to deliver the free-spinning experience, there is a lot of balancing that needs to go on with respect to ensuring parts are tight enough to feel good but loose enough to actually move.


----------



## Atavax

also, there is something taped to the clear plastic packaging, it looks like a small battery, but it has no markings... just a weight? also, there aren't any extra "permanent" weights inside the mouse that if i took it apart could remove and make the mouse lighter, is there?


----------



## CPate

That is a magnet, and it helps keep the front flap of the package closed. It is not used for the mouse.

There is no added internal weight in the mouse.


----------



## gildadan

Hmm it has my interest. I may have found a replacement to my g5. I wish it had a few less buttons and a little better flow to it but I might give it a try. The weight balance feature which has been lacking on new mice and the new sensor both have me intrigued. Only looking to replace my g5 due to the side buttons are starting to fail. Debating modding some replacements in it and still keep on with it for another few years. I like simple high quality mice. Too many buttons get distracting to me on that hand. Plus I can't push them if they are close together due to my finger size. My left hand covers nearly everything I need quickly and easily.

Other than being hideously ugly it will probably be a good mouse. Sorry just hate harsh lines.


----------



## Blashyrkh

when will it be available in italy?


----------



## boogdud

Looks from the screenshots that it uses a similar cable to the g600, great move! Probably the best braided cable I've ever used.


----------



## Atavax

So, why 12,000 dpi? you think there going to be 8k resolution monitors soon?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> So, why 12,000 dpi? you think there going to be 8k resolution monitors soon?


If they can do it without adding latency and having 300 IPS, why the hell not? That's what I'd say if I was working at Logitech on engineering their mouse and the sensor behind it.

12000 CPI at 70cm/360 is going to be the most organic feeling sensor ever. SO MUCH GRANULARITY.


----------



## Mastoras78

Atavax any chance you can draw some lines on paint on various dpi settings and post them on this topic ? If you don't mind wanna share some feedback about how tracking feels for you? ty


----------



## discoprince

im gonna pick one up to see what this is all about


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> when will it be available in italy?


It is difficult to tell when the product will be available in a particular country. The distribution chain is long and complex. It will start arriving in Europe in mid-April, but could be as late as May or June to get to certain places.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> So, why 12,000 dpi? you think there going to be 8k resolution monitors soon?


All of the stats on the mouse provide margin for current configurations as well as cushion for future ones. The core design criteria of the sensor were tracking fidelity, speed, and responsiveness, and no compromises to these core functionalities were required in order to hit 12k DPI.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mastoras78*
> 
> Atavax any chance you can draw some lines on paint on various dpi settings and post them on this topic ? If you don't mind wanna share some feedback about how tracking feels for you? ty


i'll probably do it either tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## xSociety

I went to Best Buy today to look at it and I didn't buy it. One, because I'm bitter about no g9x successor







and two, the LMB is SUPER narrow. I'd be hitting those buttons on accident all the time. Maybe I'll go back and buy it just to try the sensor and return it.


----------



## Atavax

the thumb rest is a bit skinny and its easy to accidentally hit the side mouse buttons. There are two modes for the scroll wheel. The looser one is absurdly loose and rattles loudly with practically no movement. The firmer option is ok, but the mousewheel is a little slick

this is a quick line drawing with prediction off, 400dpi and 1000 hz 

which dpis do you want tested? quite a few options between 200 and 12,000...


----------



## Puck

I have a few pictures alongside my G9X from every angle, and side by side Entous results from both mice using the same DPI/polling/pad that I will post in the morning. At this level of hardware though, I would imagine most benchmarks the limiting factor would be the user, not the mouse.

Couple random quick first impressions:

- Narrower then my G9x but longer. Bit more comfortable for big hands.
- Centrally located sensor, has a hard to describe, neutral, natural tracking compared to the far offset sensor on the G9x. I've got to run a few quick paced FPS games to test, but it seems like it is very accurate.
- Scroll wheel is very nice on the click setting. Smooth, fast, and accurate...but the freewheel setting is insanely fast and too loose
- Has that quality Logitech feel, nice and sturdy
- Definitely heavier then my G9x, but does not feel "too" heavy like some were worried about.
- Not sure if its because I am not used to it yet, but it seems like a front biased weight, which is kind of annoying coming from the perfectly balanced G9X. I can use the weight bias adjustments to fix that, but then I would be adding more weight to an already fairly heavy mouse. _**edit** Matter of fact, it may be just because of the way the foot pads are set up. The sides and bottom have tiny little thin pads, but the front pad is massive so has quite a bit more friction on the front then the rest. I'd imagine a set of hyperglides would be amazing on this mouse._

Notable Cons:
- No pinky bridge or spot to rest your pinky in at all. The G9x, G5, and MX518 all had at least slight indentations to place your pinky in. This mouse tapers all the way to the bottom on the right side, leaving your pinky either awkwardly on the side or dragging on the mouse pad (which having a hard pad causes it to grip - I hate when my hand touches it!)
- Left click is narrow. I havent accidentally clicked the ones next to it yet, but you will definitely have to be careful.
- Freewheel scroll setting is rediculous. Seriously, I can't imagine anyone using it for anything.


----------



## jetpak12

This mouse looks interesting to me as I'm a big of fan of the G500 design. I had the G5 and now use the G500. I don't mind the weight of the G500, and since I have a couple of the weights added into it I don't think I'll mind the weight of the G502 either.

Lately the left click has started double-clicking on the G500, so maybe its time to look into a new model.







(or maybe I could swap the switch from my old G5 into the G500?)


----------



## davcc22

looks likke a good mouse shame i just blew all my mouse mony on a sensei


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> 12000 CPI at 70cm/360 is going to be the most organic feeling sensor ever. SO MUCH GRANULARITY.


Most games won't even have sensitivity values low enough to allow 70cm/360 at 12.000 dpi...

Also the "granularity" you talk about is impossible to perceive past a certain point of dpi, and that will surely be at <4000 dpi (given your cm/360). Not that I mind the mouse having the possibility of 12.000 dpi it's just something that will never be useful for me.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Most games won't even have sensitivity values low enough to allow 70cm/360 at 12.000 dpi...
> 
> Also the "granularity" you talk about is impossible to perceive past a certain point of dpi, and that will surely be at <4000 dpi (given your cm/360). Not that I mind the mouse having the possibility of 12.000 dpi it's just something that will never be useful for me.


I know lol, it's just a fun thought. I use 3500 CPI right now at 70cm/360 if the game has raw input, and it's way, way more than enough.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Super excited for this mouse. Sure, I have my G602, which is also fantastic, but the same Optical sensor thats in the G602 in this G502 with a few additions. DO WANT! lol, all I need now is that side, thing with the extra buttons and the scroll wheel and I literally have all Logitech peripherals (excluding the sound system, need something higher quality then your highest end system, sorry). Also, I didnt know we had a Logitech rep, @CPate


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Super excited for this mouse. Sure, I have my G602, which is also fantastic, but the same Optical sensor thats in the G602 in this G502 with a few additions. DO WANT! lol, all I need now is that side, thing with the extra buttons and the scroll wheel and I literally have all Logitech peripherals (excluding the sound system, need something higher quality then your highest end system, sorry). Also, I didnt know we had a Logitech rep, @CPate


Afaik they don't share the same sensor, the one in the Proteus Core is much better than the one in the 602 in terms of speed.


----------



## CeeSA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> I did not already answer, but yes - 121 and 168 are without tuning weights inserted.


that is a huge differenz. May I ask you how do you do the measurement without cable?
Remove the cable physically or do you relief the cable?

AFAIK the most cable weigh something above 30gr.


----------



## CPate

The picture I posted shows how I weighed it. I removed the cable entirely.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Afaik they don't share the same sensor, the one in the Proteus Core is much better than the one in the 602 in terms of speed.


Proteus Core's sensor is quite a bit better than G602's - particularly in terms of max speed. 602 uses the same sensor as G100s.


----------



## Bullveyr

Interested in the sensor but the mouse itself doesn't fit my taste.


----------



## Ice009

I'm kind of hanging out for user opinion of all you guys that have managed to get one.

I was going to get a Mionix mouse, either the Naos or Avior, but if this thing performs, I might give it a go too. I'm still using a G5 and this could suit me pretty well, just depends on the performance compared to the other new mice with the 3310 sensors.

I still might get a Mionix mouse though, just because they seem like a decent company and I kind of want to support them a little bit. I keep reading nothing but good things about them here.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> - Freewheel scroll setting is rediculous. Seriously, I can't imagine anyone using it for anything.


are you serius?
that's the best feature on a mouse that i have been using since the g9 till the G700.awesome for scrolling webpages or very long documents.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> are you serius?
> that's the best feature on a mouse that i have been using since the g9 till the G700.awesome for scrolling webpages or very long documents.


It's a useful feature for an office mouse. On a gaming mouse this is a useless feature that adds cost and weight.

I'm glad the weight numbers were wrong. That's still a heavy mouse but it's not quite as ridiculous.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> It's a useful feature for an office mouse. On a gaming mouse this is a useless feature that adds cost and weight.


I, like many others, use the mouse for gaming, and anything else like coding or office....having that scroll wheel is a plus.
yes it adds weight, but 120gr is nothing too heavy, compared to other mice like the RATs.
So the assumption "cant imagine anyone using it" is sligtly out of place


----------



## Ice009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> I, like many others, use the mouse for gaming, and anything else like coding or office....having that scroll wheel is a plus.
> yes it adds weight, but 120gr is nothing too heavy, compared to other mice like the RATs.
> So the assumption "cant imagine anyone using it" is sligtly out of place


Just curious, how heavy are the RAT mice on average?

Anyway, I don't think this mouse is that heavy. I mean, what do you guys that say it's too heavy consider an average/light weight mouse to be?


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ice009*
> 
> Just curious, how heavy are the RAT mice on average?
> 
> Anyway, I don't think this mouse is that heavy. I mean, what do you guys that say it's too heavy consider an average/light weight mouse to be?


don't remember exactly, but rat 7 should be 150 and mmo7 135...i think that taking out the screw in the back you can take out 5gr


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ice009*
> 
> Just curious, how heavy are the RAT mice on average?
> 
> Anyway, I don't think this mouse is that heavy. I mean, what do you guys that say it's too heavy consider an average/light weight mouse to be?


Kana is listed at 72g. I consider this light.

Most well built palm gaming mice without gimmicks are around 100g. G400 for an example is ~104. I consider this average.

G500 is ~117g. I consider this heavy.

G502 is 121g. So just a little more than G500.

RAT 7 is around 150g. This is an extremely heavy toy, not a gaming mouse.

The G502 isn't that bad but it is heavier than most gaming mice.


----------



## trhead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Kana is listed at 72g. I consider this light.
> 
> Most well built palm gaming mice without gimmicks are around 100g. G400 for an example is ~104. I consider this average.
> 
> *G500 is ~117g. I consider this heavy.*
> 
> G502 is 121g. So just a little more than G500.
> 
> RAT 7 is around 150g. This is an extremely heavy toy, not a gaming mouse.
> 
> The G502 isn't that bad but it is heavier than most gaming mice.


/INB4


----------



## SteffzStarkz

Hope Logitech makes a red edition of this mouse. That would be awesome


----------



## Mastoras78

Thanx Puck for first impressions, this is what I actually want to see. Point of view of power users. About scroll wheel I can only talk for G9 which is similar and I love it. Might be an overkill for a gaming mouse but also there is nothing wrong with it and its.. free









Chris your webpage still displays wrong weight


----------



## Yodums

S
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> I have a few pictures alongside my G9X from every angle, and side by side Entous results from both mice using the same DPI/polling/pad that I will post in the morning.


Between the 502 and G9x, which do you like better overall? The G9x fits my hand like a glove, and I haven't found any mouse that could replace it. The next closest thing I found is a DA2013.


----------



## Atavax

the site also incorrectly says the max speed for the g100s is 4.08m/s. looks like a typo because it also says 120 inches per second, which would be 3.04...


----------



## Atavax

ok, this is pretty impressive, 12,000 dpi, no jitter. i do struggle drawing straight lines because of the extremely high sensitivity though 

the weight distribution does feel a little odd. I think the front right and then the left feel quite heavy.

the sensor does feel way less responsive then my zowie ec2 evo cl, the more i'm using it the more i'm convinced its the sensor and not the weight.


----------



## trhead

Does that mean it has tons of smoothing? We need Skylit to come back and tell us what is really going on here


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yodums*
> 
> Between the 502 and G9x, which do you like better overall? The G9x fits my hand like a glove, and I haven't found any mouse that could replace it. The next closest thing I found is a DA2013.


Haven't had it long enough to make my decision, but keep in mind I was absolutely in love with my G9x and had it for a long time. My only gripe with the G9x that it was a bit too short for my long hands. I can already tell though that the G502 is a more accurate mouse, not sure if that is the sensor itself or its more central location on the mouse that makes it feel more natural. Still getting used to it, so far my only complaint on the G502 is the lack of an indentation for your pinky - the G9x has a slight ridge that is perfect to rest your pinky in, while the G502 tapers all the way to the bottom.

Here are the pics and Entous results I promised. Keep in mind I changed NO settings from my G9x, just updated the logitech software center to ID it and verify settings were the same. They were cellphone pics done in the dark so are not the best quality.

Side by side shot:


http://imgur.com/u0bTdjk


Thumb sides:


http://imgur.com/0wHKhNs


Length (you can notice the lack of the pinky ledge on the G502):


http://imgur.com/rQB6RZP


Nearly _perfect_ palm grip for my 2XL hands. VERY comfortable!


http://imgur.com/Tbnogm9


Another SBS comparison:


http://imgur.com/8EITOXY


Sensor locations/feet shape:


http://imgur.com/2Vwl0ot


G9x Entous:


http://imgur.com/xA29HBQ


G502 Entous:


http://imgur.com/G2eZOQO


For the Entous results, both mice DPI measured on the dot with high precision(within margin of error based on the user). The G502 recorded a higher max speed at the same polling, and I think it was limited to my arm speed - you will max out your reflexes well before maxing out the G502. I could not detect any jitter, smoothing, acceleration, or angle snapping on the G502- *the sensor is marvelous*. IMO, with a pinkly ledge/maybe 1/4" wider it would be the perfect mouse - for myself at least.

Keep in mind tests were done at the same exact settings for both mice, a very modest 1800DPI. The G502 may exhibit better or worse settings at a different DPI.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trhead*
> 
> Does that mean it has tons of smoothing? We need Skylit to come back and tell us what is really going on here


As far as I can tell this thing has ZERO smoothing, acceleration, rounding, snapping, prediction, etc etc. Say what you will about the shape or design, but their is no doubt that the sensor is very impressive.


----------



## Ricey20

I did a quick Enotus test as well at my normal 2000dpi.

Enotus Mouse Test v0.1.4
Mouse: n/a
Model: Logitech G502
Resolution: 2000 dpi \excellent\
Polling speed: 999 Hz
Max speed: 4.92 m/s (387114 points/s) \excellent\
Precision: 99.3 % (0.10 m/s) \excellent\
Smoothness: 8.7 % \ok\
Debug data: [('32', '0.08'), ('31', '0.08'), ('25', '0.07'), ('30', '0.07'), ('30', '0.07'), ('28', '0.07'), ('27', '0.07'), ('26', '0.07'), ('25', '0.07'), ('22', '0.07')]

I concur with Puck, the sensor is great!


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> As far as I can tell this thing has ZERO smoothing, acceleration, rounding, snapping, prediction, etc etc. Say what you will about the shape or design, but their is no doubt that the sensor is very impressive.


have you noticed smoothing in any other mice?


----------



## trhead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> As far as I can tell this thing has ZERO smoothing, acceleration, rounding, snapping, prediction, etc etc. Say what you will about the shape or design, but their is no doubt that the sensor is very impressive.


Yeah, I don't have this mouse but I believe you. I personally can't feel any smoothing or lag on 4000dpi 3090 sensor mice or Zowie evo non native steps. BUT I know some people like r0ach for example think this is a huge problem.

EDIT: I never use 450dpi step on Zowies so don't know if its laggier than 1150/2300.


----------



## Ino.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Haven't had it long enough to make my decision, but keep in mind I was absolutely in love with my G9x and had it for a long time. My only gripe with the G9x that it was a bit too short for my long hands. I can already tell though that the G502 is a more accurate mouse, not sure if that is the sensor itself or its more central location on the mouse that makes it feel more natural. Still getting used to it, so far my only complaint on the G502 is the lack of an indentation for your pinky - the G9x has a slight ridge that is perfect to rest your pinky in, while the G502 tapers all the way to the bottom.
> 
> Here are the pics and Entous results I promised. Keep in mind I changed NO settings from my G9x, just updated the logitech software center to ID it and verify settings were the same. They were cellphone pics done in the dark so are not the best quality.
> 
> Side by side shot:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/u0bTdjk
> 
> 
> Thumb sides:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/0wHKhNs
> 
> 
> Length (you can notice the lack of the pinky ledge on the G502):
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/rQB6RZP
> 
> 
> Nearly _perfect_ palm grip for my 2XL hands. VERY comfortable!
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/Tbnogm9
> 
> 
> Another SBS comparison:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/8EITOXY
> 
> 
> Sensor locations/feet shape:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/2Vwl0ot
> 
> 
> G9x Entous:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/xA29HBQ
> 
> 
> G502 Entous:
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/G2eZOQO
> 
> 
> For the Entous results, both mice DPI measured on the dot with high precision(within margin of error based on the user). The G502 recorded a higher max speed at the same polling, and I think it was limited to my arm speed - you will max out your reflexes well before maxing out the G502. I could not detect any jitter, smoothing, acceleration, or angle snapping on the G502- *the sensor is marvelous*. IMO, with a pinkly ledge/maybe 1/4" wider it would be the perfect mouse - for myself at least.
> 
> Keep in mind tests were done at the same exact settings for both mice, a very modest 1800DPI. The G502 may exhibit better or worse settings at a different DPI.






I'd guess the max speed was due to your small mousepad, because both mice should be a lot faster. Also Enotus snaps to dpi intervals of 200 dpi, so it's not an accurate representation. To get exact results you need to actually measure the 4"/10cm and look at the value before releasing the mousebutton.


----------



## Atavax

yeah, this is what i topped out at with 400 dpi and 1000hz polling and it could of easily still been my arm the limiting factor.

.


----------



## Conundrumwudy

I was still confused with the sensor. Is it an optical sensor or a laser one? From pictures I see it's some kind of a laser one, but CMate said it's an IR LED. Just can't imagine an optical sensor has such high CPI.


----------



## SuprUsrStan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conundrumwudy*
> 
> I war still confused with the sensor. Is it an optical sensor or a laser one? From pictures I see it's some kind of a laser one, but CMate said it's an IR LED. Just can't imagine an optical sensor has such high CPI.


It's neither a laser sensor nor a optical sensor. They claim that it is a "infrared" sensor and the first of its kind.


----------



## khabme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> 
> I'd guess the max speed was due to your small mousepad, because both mice should be a lot faster. Also Enotus snaps to dpi intervals of 200 dpi, so it's not an accurate representation. To get exact results you need to actually measure the 4"/10cm and look at the value before releasing the mousebutton.


but Logitech G9x More like a Fingergrip mouse
Logitech G502 Palm only (its large monster)

Logitech need to think about creating fingergrip mouse (only now G100s)

Return Logitech g9x plz


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> It's neither a laser sensor nor a optical sensor. They claim that it is a "infrared" sensor and the first of its kind.


there are many infrared sensors in mice. Its an optical sensor. . What consumers refer to as optical is really LED sensors. They use an led as the light source, while laser sensors use a laser as the light source. The g502 uses an infrared LED and isn't the first mouse to do so, so its what people generally call an optical mouse.

also, now that i know i can hit at least 4.85 with my arm, pretty sure mice that i couldn't get above 3m/s with, it was the mouse and not my arm


----------



## Conundrumwudy

Yes that's what I think, it's a optical sensor with infrared LED. BUT I can't confirm this. because the pictures (bottom of the mouse) here show something the 'hole' is like a laser one (maybe just because the picture is not clear.)


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> 
> I'd guess the max speed was due to your small mousepad, because both mice should be a lot faster. Also Enotus snaps to dpi intervals of 200 dpi, so it's not an accurate representation. To get exact results you need to actually measure the 4"/10cm and look at the value before releasing the mousebutton.


My mousepad is 12.5" wide, I measured 4" using that ruler but didnt pay attention to the value until I released the button.

I tried again using the longer diagonal measurement and 1000hz and got significantly higher, 4.22m/s.


http://imgur.com/MS6yvsx


Loving this sensor, going to play some TF2 to see if I can get used to it - basically the lack of pinky ledge.


----------



## jsx3

Rating reflects up to 300 IPS as tested with G240 surface; ignoring HW tolerance.

That doesn't necessarily mean the sensor will always track at the highest potential speed, but it can get close with listed mousepad.... provided you're a robot.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsx3*
> 
> Rating reflects up to 300 IPS as tested with G240 surface; ignoring HW tolerance.
> 
> That doesn't necessarily mean the sensor will always track at the highest potential speed, but it can get close with listed mousepad.... provided you're a robot.


is there an ideal polling rate and dpi to try to get it to track at the highest potential speed? like i've tried 125 hz and it seems like i can't even break 4m/s with it at 400hz. but then at 1,000 i can get to 4.85m/s. so it seems like on some pads and at some settings, the max speed is reachable.


----------



## Atavax

any tests people want me to run before i give this mouse to a drinking buddy?


----------



## Puck

The left click/DPI buttons definitely take some getting used to. For the first ~15 minutes I kept accidentally raising the DPI to insane levels(usually during hectic action) and messing myself up. After about the first hour I didnt do it again, so it is definitely something you can get used to. Strangely enough, the biggest thing that bothered me during normal use and testing was the pinky ridge, but I didn't even notice that while gaming. I was skeptical at first due to the "noob bait" marketing for 12,000 DPI they were using and was partially expecting it to fall short to my G9x and end up returning it. Because of the awesome sensor though, I will give the mouse a few days to get used to it and most likely keep it. The tracking is phenomenal, even though the layout and body has some quirks.

All in all I am happy with it, and that is saying a lot considering how enamored I was with my G9x. The G502 doesn't show that slight positive acceleration that the G9x did - it is an extremely neutral sensor, just plain accurate.


----------



## Amperial

Inb4 someone comes up with a random test saying the sensor is **** and everyone follows his way.

Curious about next mice.
I hope shape & look will be somewhat decent.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> any tests people want me to run before i give this mouse to a drinking buddy?


actually I would like to know if there isn't smoothness nor acceleration nor anything like that, especially by someone who feels the smoothness(on the DA2013 for example).

and if the width is less or more compared to deathadder/rival and rat7
I like wide mice, like deathadder, G9 or RAT, and I dont like for example the g700 that's to thin for me

thanks


----------



## SinX7

How is this G502 compare to the Roccat Kone XTD and Razer DA? Any guess?









I love my old G500, but I had to get a replacement, so I am looking for something similar. Feel on the G500 was really comfortable too, sucked it had the double click issue.

Thanks!


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> actually I would like to know if there isn't smoothness nor acceleration nor anything like that, especially by someone who feels the smoothness(on the DA2013 for example).
> 
> and if the width is less or more compared to deathadder/rival and rat7
> I like wide mice, like deathadder, G9 or RAT, and I dont like for example the g700 that's to thin for me
> 
> thanks


It is narrower then the G9x with the Wide Load grip, but almost a full inch longer. I have large hands with skinny fingers, size 2XL glove, and the G502 fits me almost perfectly. If it was ~1/4" wider with a pinky indentation or even just a ledge I would be in heaven.

There is ZERO acceleration with this sensor! I cannot notice any smoothing either, but I didn't notice and in my last mouse either so I guess im not smoothing sensitive if thats even a thing







. G9x has slight positive acceleration (which I noticed, but did not bother me BTW, you get used to if after enough use).


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> actually I would like to know if there isn't smoothness nor acceleration nor anything like that, especially by someone who feels the smoothness(on the DA2013 for example).
> 
> and if the width is less or more compared to deathadder/rival and rat7
> I like wide mice, like deathadder, G9 or RAT, and I dont like for example the g700 that's to thin for me
> 
> thanks


i am pretty sure there is smoothing. I had both it and my ec2 evo cl at 2300 dpi and the g502 felt significantly less responsive.

acceleration, there is acceleration. I repeated this test several times. with the same result. when moving slowly, my crosshair stopped where the bullet hole is in this screenshot. When i move quickly, its where my crosshair is in this screenshot. Also i use a low sensitivity of 12.4 inches per 360, so i don't think this discrepancy is from minute differences in end location. WIth my zowie, i use the same speeds. and i clearly dont have acceleration with the ec2 evo cl. So it definitely appears to be the sensor.



i don't have a rival, rat, or deathadder. but the guy i plan on giving this to currently is using my old 3.5g deathadder, so he will likely be able to compare the width of the grip.

also keep in mind the widest part of this mouse is because of a thumb rest. its about 2 and 13/16ths of an inch wide. i actually find the mouse quite comfortable to claw grip. the only problem i have ergonomically is the thumb rest lifts my thumb too far and i accidentally click the side mouse buttons because of it. One impressive thing of note is the rubber shock aborbing thing that connects the cable to the mouse is a full 1 inch long, its huge! The scroll wheel is heavy, clumsy, and slick. Might literally be my least favorite scroll wheel ever.

Pretty disappointed Logitech would advertise a highly responsive sensor with no acceleration while after testing i'm nearly 100% certain that there is acceleration and probably 95% certain the sensor is less responsive then my current mouse.


----------



## MLJS54

Not really too surprised with that outcome given this behemoth is marketed more towards the tank gunner BF4 crowd.


----------



## Mastoras78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MLJS54*
> 
> Not really too surprised with that outcome given this behemoth is marketed more towards the tank gunner BF4 crowd.


Well we have positive and negative feedback but its just two people who posted, its too early. It will take some time and many reviews for safe conclusions.


----------



## Atavax

anyone familiar with best buy's return policy? do i just get store credit?


----------



## MLJS54

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> anyone familiar with best buy's return policy? do i just get store credit?


You can return to the store for a cash refund if you are not 100% satisfied with some of the features (which you in truth are not), at least that is always the case with mice I've bought at the NYC Best Buy's. YMMV


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mastoras78*
> 
> Chris your webpage still displays wrong weight


The request is in, it just sometimes takes a while for the web team to get through the request list.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> the site also incorrectly says the max speed for the g100s is 4.08m/s. looks like a typo because it also says 120 inches per second, which would be 3.04...


Thanks - that was a packaging error that evidently didn't get fixed. I will put that request in as well.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conundrumwudy*
> 
> I was still confused with the sensor. Is it an optical sensor or a laser one? From pictures I see it's some kind of a laser one, but CMate said it's an IR LED. Just can't imagine an optical sensor has such high CPI.


The sensor in Proteus Core is an optical system that is illuminated by an IR LED. The base physical architecture, (light source, lens, sensor) is very similar to the G100s or G602 sensor - but the sensor itself is totally new. The 12k CPI max is achieved natively and without compromise to tracking fidelity.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> Pretty disappointed Logitech would advertise a highly responsive sensor with no acceleration while after testing i'm nearly 100% certain that there is acceleration and probably 95% certain the sensor is less responsive then my current mouse.


I stand by our statements.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i am pretty sure there is smoothing. I had both it and my ec2 evo cl at 2300 dpi and the g502 felt significantly less responsive.
> 
> acceleration, there is acceleration. I repeated this test several times. with the same result. when moving slowly, my crosshair stopped where the bullet hole is in this screenshot. When i move quickly, its where my crosshair is in this screenshot. Also i use a low sensitivity of 12.4 inches per 360, so i don't think this discrepancy is from minute differences in end location. WIth my zowie, i use the same speeds. and i clearly dont have acceleration with the ec2 evo cl. So it definitely appears to be the sensor.
> 
> 
> 
> i don't have a rival, rat, or deathadder. but the guy i plan on giving this to currently is using my old 3.5g deathadder, so he will likely be able to compare the width of the grip.
> 
> also keep in mind the widest part of this mouse is because of a thumb rest. its about 2 and 13/16ths of an inch wide. i actually find the mouse quite comfortable to claw grip. the only problem i have ergonomically is the thumb rest lifts my thumb too far and i accidentally click the side mouse buttons because of it. One impressive thing of note is the rubber shock aborbing thing that connects the cable to the mouse is a full 1 inch long, its huge! The scroll wheel is heavy, clumsy, and slick. Might literally be my least favorite scroll wheel ever.
> 
> Pretty disappointed Logitech would advertise a highly responsive sensor with no acceleration while after testing i'm nearly 100% certain that there is acceleration and probably 95% certain the sensor is less responsive then my current mouse.


Not to sound noob, but are you sure your drivers settings are correct and that gun you are using doesn't have spread?

I tested with a sniper rifle in TF2 on a blank white wall with a ruler and the edge of my mousepad and the G502 has *ZERO* acceleration. Not even a hair!


----------



## metal571

Test the acceleration in CS with raw input enabled. That's how you will know for sure. I trust only that game engine for real mouse testing.

EDIT: anyone have a REALLY large mousepad to test on, like a Talent or QcK+? I could hit 5.3 or 5.4 m/s right up to the 215 IPS limit on some swipes with my Avior on those, but it HURTS your arm a lot LOL


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Not to sound noob, but are you sure your drivers settings are correct and that gun you are using doesn't have spread?
> 
> I tested with a sniper rifle in TF2 on a blank white wall with a ruler and the edge of my mousepad and the G502 has *ZERO* acceleration. Not even a hair!


my driver settings are correct. there is no option for laggy mouse or for acceleration that i saw.

maybe you were not moving your mouse at a fast enough speed to reproduce my results, or maybe it simply performs better on your mouspad. I was using a black artisan hayate.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> my driver settings are correct. there is no option for laggy mouse or for acceleration that i saw.
> 
> maybe you were not moving your mouse at a fast enough speed to reproduce my results, or maybe it simply performs better on your mouspad. I was using a black artisan hayate.


I have a brushed stainless pad that I made, so I'm sure it acts differently then a lot of other pads. Can you try calibrating it for your surface through Logitech Gaming Software? There is a mousepad with a crosshair option that supposedly adjusts the sensor for your mousing surface - you basically hold a button and do figure 8's while it records it and does some logitech black magic to adjust the sensor for the surface. Wish I knew exactly what it did.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Test the acceleration in CS with raw input enabled. That's how you will know for sure. I trust only that game engine for real mouse testing.
> 
> EDIT: anyone have a REALLY large mousepad to test on, like a Talent or QcK+? I could hit 5.3 or 5.4 m/s right up to the 215 IPS limit on some swipes with my Avior on those, but it HURTS your arm a lot LOL


x2, TF2 is source engine and has a raw input option. I noticed 0 acceleration over a ~6" distance (my normal surface range @ 1800DPI 2560x1440 res).

I can test the speed on my table without a mousepad to see if it is better with a longer distance. Gimme a sec.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Test the acceleration in CS with raw input enabled. That's how you will know for sure. I trust only that game engine for real mouse testing.
> 
> EDIT: anyone have a REALLY large mousepad to test on, like a Talent or QcK+? I could hit 5.3 or 5.4 m/s right up to the 215 IPS limit on some swipes with my Avior on those, but it HURTS your arm a lot LOL


cs go? or original cs? i was testing in cs go with raw mouse input enabled.my mouspad is fairly large, 16.5 inches long.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> x2, TF2 is source engine and has a raw input option. I noticed 0 acceleration over a ~6" distance (my normal surface range @ 1800DPI 2560x1440 res).
> 
> I can test the speed on my table without a mousepad to see if it is better with a longer distance. Gimme a sec.


titanfall also has raw input...god knows that game's mouse settings are horrible...


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> I have a brushed stainless pad that I made, so I'm sure it acts differently then a lot of other pads. Can you try calibrating it for your surface through Logitech Gaming Software? There is a mousepad with a crosshair option that supposedly adjusts the sensor for your mousing surface - you basically hold a button and do figure 8's while it records it and does some logitech black magic to adjust the sensor for the surface. Wish I knew exactly what it did..


calibrating to my mouspad was the first thing i did.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> cs go? or original cs? i was testing in cs go with raw mouse input enabled.my mouspad is fairly large, 16.5 inches long.


In the same game your EC2 shows no accel right? No need to change games if you can just plug in a mouse that is known to be accel free and see if you can consistently reproduce these results..

Never mind, just read your edit.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> In the same game your FK shows no accel right? No need to change games if you can just plug in a mouse that is known to be accel free and see if you can consistently reproduce these results..
> 
> Never mind, just read your edit.


its a ec2 evo cl, not a fk. but correct, i plug that in using the same method and i get no acceleration. i plug in the g502 and i get acceleration.


----------



## Puck

Tested speed with no mousepad so I can use a much larger test area and got *6.75m/s*. First couple tests I guess the sensor went off the edge and got crazy 13+m/s readings which seemed very unlikely so I retried a few times till I noticed what was going on







. 6.75 is still crazy high though...



http://imgur.com/5PBdvbh


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> its a ec2 evo cl, not a fk. but correct, i plug that in using the same method and i get no acceleration. i plug in the g502 and i get acceleration.


So much for the new flawless sensor.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> G9x has slight positive acceleration (which I noticed, but did not bother me BTW, you get used to if after enough use).


I have seen this claimed before but no, you can't get used to the inconsistency of that sensor. Your brain is not adjusting to the ripple curve of accel mid flick.


----------



## nlmiller0015

i returned my cause i keep accidentally hitting the sniper button it can get annoying other than that it was comfortable didnt really get to test the sensor though


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> I stand by our statements.


thats fine, doesn't change what the mouse is. I guess i shouldn't expect corporations to not lie about something if it can't definitively be proven false. No definitive responsive sensor test, so i guess corporations can lie their heads off about it, nothing consumers can do about it.


----------



## boogdud

I can't speak for the sensor performance, etc. but as for the ergonomics, this thing knocks it out of the park. It doesn't look comfortable at all, it looks bulky and complex but in the hand it just feels amazing. It's strange because if you had never seen the mouse and just put it in your hand without looking at it, you would never guess it looks the way it does. I guess that's a really strange compliment to the ergonomics of this thing. Whoever at logitech that had a hand in this design, shake their hand.

I was also worried about the weight but it feels pretty light to me, I think it's because it's so easy to grip. I'm glad the side-scrolling wheel is back, and this one is fantastic.

I don't want to gush too much but I'm very impressed with the ergo here. Well done.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> So much for the new flawless sensor.
> I have seen this claimed before but no, you can't get used to the inconsistency of that sensor. Your brain is not adjusting to the ripple curve of accel mid flick.


That's a common misconception indeed. You can't get used the minor positive acceleration because it is inconsistent on that sensor. Believe me I tried with my Sensei. No. Just don't.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Tested speed with no mousepad so I can use a much larger test area and got *6.75m/s*. First couple tests I guess the sensor went off the edge and got crazy 13+m/s readings which seemed very unlikely so I retried a few times till I noticed what was going on
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . 6.75 is still crazy high though...
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/5PBdvbh


Theoretical ceiling should be at 7.62 m/s.


----------



## nlmiller0015

If Avago/Pixart Fixed the Accel on the A9500/9800 it pretty much be the best sensor on the market these sensor are very responsive in my opinion. Tried the Razer tapain yesterday compared it to my DA 2013 (that I been using for 1.5years now) the responsiveness was better imo but the accel and the shape is not for me. Thinking of giving the SS rival another chance


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> If Avago/Pixart Fixed the Accel on the A9500/9800 it pretty much be the best sensor on the market these sensor are very responsive in my opinion. Tried the Razer tapain yesterday compared it to my DA 2013 (that I been using for 1.5years now) the responsiveness was better imo but the accel and the shape is not for me. Thinking of giving the SS rival another chance


Have you tried the Avior yet? It's like a Taipan but with more room on the sides. Much more.


----------



## nlmiller0015

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Have you tried the Avior yet? It's like a Taipan but with more room on the sides. Much more.


im thinking about giving it a go since the Naos 7000 really wasn't for me


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> So much for the new flawless sensor.


I tested with a sniper rifle in TF2 w/ raw mouse input over a 6in distance using the edge of mousepad and a ruler and showed no acceleration whatsoever. Again, my tests show zero acceleration in Source engine with raw mouse input. Atavax shows acceleration in his test. That is either due to different settings, mousing surface, game engines, or testing inconsistencies. Not a large enough sample size to make a judgment on the sensor yet.

Kind of jumping the gun to say Logitech "lied" when so far there are only 2 results that are exactly 50/50.


----------



## discoprince

im gonna get the mouse from local best buy either today or early tomorow and i will test for accel and stuff.


----------



## Atavax

this is me testing it in tf2. the left mose hole in the corner is where i started. the next hole is moving slowly. the other holes are movng quickly. where my crosshair is is where my croshair lands if after moving quickly left, i slowly move left back to my mouse's original position, which should result in where the left most whole is if there was no acceleration.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> im thinking about giving it a go since the Naos 7000 really wasn't for me


Yeah if you like the Sensei shape you will likely enjoy the Avior. Some people seem to have an issue with the side buttons sticking out but I never really hit them by accident with my grip, on either side of the mouse.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> this is me testing it in tf2. the left mose hole in the corner is where i started. the next hole is moving slowly. the other holes are movng quickly. where my crosshair is is where my croshair lands if after moving quickly left, i slowly move left back to my mouse's original position, which should result in where the left most whole is if there was no acceleration.


Can you do the same test using the bare table? How fast are you swinging - I was doing normal speed left/right swipe, didn't try a super fast twitch movement.

The only thing I can think of besides drivers would be the pad difference. My pad is perfectly flat and smooth, brushed and polished stainless.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> this is me testing it in tf2. the left mose hole in the corner is where i started. the next hole is moving slowly. the other holes are movng quickly. where my crosshair is is where my croshair lands if after moving quickly left, i slowly move left back to my mouse's original position, which should result in where the left most whole is if there was no acceleration.


Could you do a csgo demo with the test ? Put the crosshair to the edge of the box and then move the crosshair... you know.


----------



## 2shellbonus

All these test arent really accurate. You twitch the mouse ever so slightly and the measurement is gone. And in twitch, I mean if you rotate it around the sensor pivot. The only way to get stable and decent results is to exclude human movement from the test.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> All these test arent really accurate. You twitch the mouse ever so slightly and the measurement is gone. And in twitch, I mean if you rotate it around the sensor pivot. The only way to get stable and decent results is to exclude human movement from the test.


The problem is still there in gameplay even if it isn't the sensor causing it. So basically the shape is completely unusable to some people. I find this bizarre as I have never have had a mouse shape cause such issues.


----------



## treach

Honestly your pad is a joke


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> The problem is still there in gameplay even if it isn't the sensor causing it. So basically the shape is completely unusable to some people. I find this bizarre as I have never have had a mouse shape cause such issues.


Well that's a human error problem. You get used to such things. Play a month or two and you will adjust to the shape and feel.
You can't use a mouse straight away and feel comfortable. Heck, take a 2year old g400 and a new one. They will feel different. So let the body adjust. Stop looking at specs and what not and focus not on how you hold the mouse, or how you aim. Focus on the game. And let the rest figure itself out.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> All these test arent really accurate. You twitch the mouse ever so slightly and the measurement is gone. And in twitch, I mean if you rotate it around the sensor pivot. The only way to get stable and decent results is to exclude human movement from the test.


Of course there is room for a lot of human error but if you perform the test over and over you can get a good idea on how much accel the sensor has. I can repeat this test and only be off by a few pixels over and over with a G400 or any other good sensor. There will be a tight cluster. I can then use some piece of crap like the G500 or sensei and have the results land all over the place.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Well that's a human error problem. You get used to such things. Play a month or two and you will adjust to the shape and feel.
> You can't use a mouse straight away and feel comfortable. Heck, take a 2year old g400 and a new one. They will feel different. So let the body adjust. Stop looking at specs and what not and focus not on how you hold the mouse, or how you aim. Focus on the game. And let the rest figure itself out.


Comfortability is not the key here. I can be just as precise on a mouse that I don't find comfortable. Some people just can't adjust to different shapes so well thus it could make the g502 unusable for them.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> All these test arent really accurate. You twitch the mouse ever so slightly and the measurement is gone. And in twitch, I mean if you rotate it around the sensor pivot. The only way to get stable and decent results is to exclude human movement from the test.


I've seen some videos touring Logitech's labs and they had quite a few custom machines to test things scientifically, so I'd be pretty surprised if their in-house results on accel tests were off, especially when Chris said eliminating accel was one of the main priorities in making the sensor.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> I've seen some videos touring Logitech's labs and they had quite a few custom machines to test things scientifically, so I'd be pretty surprised if their in-house results on accel tests were off, especially when Chris said eliminating accel was one of the main priorities in making the sensor.


So far we haven't seen any results of those tests. All we have is some marketing guy claiming the sensor to be good.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> So far we haven't seen any results of those tests. All we have is some marketing guy claiming the sensor to be good.


True, I'm just giving them the benefit of the doubt until there's more than a single conflicting anecdote.


----------



## Farside

CPate,

Am I missing something or does the mouse not come with the option for separate DPI X and Y axis?
I have LGS set to Automatic Game Detection (as opposed to on-board) which usually reveals the option but I'm not seeing it.

Thanks


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> I've seen some videos touring Logitech's labs and they had quite a few custom machines to test things scientifically, so I'd be pretty surprised if their in-house results on accel tests were off, especially when Chris said eliminating accel was one of the main priorities in making the sensor.


Chris wants to sell you the mouse...


----------



## CPate

Independent X/Y DPI is achieved by putting tracking input through a filter driver when that option is enabled in LGS. This feature is not available for Proteus Core.


----------



## bushzyxx

Is there any way to use this one without the LGS? If so what are the dpi options/what's the native one?
I'm currently using my g400s driverless because the drivers just mess up the tracking.


----------



## Farside

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> Independent X/Y DPI is achieved by putting tracking input through a filter driver when that option is enabled in LGS. This feature is not available for Proteus Core.


Bummer.
Thanks for your reply!


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bushzyxx*
> 
> Is there any way to use this one without the LGS? If so what are the dpi options/what's the native one?
> I'm currently using my g400s driverless because the drivers just mess up the tracking.


There is no mouse filter driver for Proteus Core in LGS. It uses the Windows mouse driver only.

Proteus Core has onboard memory and your tracking and button settings can be modified by LGS, stored on the mouse, and then used without LGS installed.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> Chris wants to sell you the mouse...


So what is it that you are implying? Given what we know, none of the scenarios where this is intentional deception from Logitech make any sense. Try to come up with one.

And if it were just an oversight in development, it would still be quite a massive irregularity. To go through all the trouble (and money) of developing a new sensor, and to completely and unknowingly fail to reach one of the main objectives in doing so -- an objective already achieved by many optical sensors for years -- someone had to have screwed up in a major way. It's possible, but Occam's Razor points me the other direction until we have more than one person saying it has accel.


----------



## vss vintorez

Chris I know you can't reveal stuff related to future projects... but, *have you ever had any plan to make a small mouse with a sensor like this or g400's one ?* No one in the market have, I only know the abyssus (jittery) and the kana v2 (not even available at my country + high lod).


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> So what is it that you are implying? Given what we know, none of the scenarios where this is intentional deception from Logitech make any sense. Try to come up with one.
> 
> And if it were just an oversight in development, it would still be quite a massive irregularity. To go through all the trouble (and money) of developing a new sensor, and to completely and unknowingly fail to reach one of the main objectives in doing so -- an objective already achieved by many optical sensors for years -- someone had to have screwed up in a major way. It's possible, but Occam's Razor points me the other direction until we have more than one person saying it has accel.


Man, the logitech mice what uses avago 9500/800 sensors have acceleration right ? And you hear CPate saying that it uses "Delta zero" technology at the same time they call delta zero to a sensor that can track accuarately without acceleration or prediction, so *** ?
Logitech is a company, and he is in charge to take our money as he's the product manager, I woulnd't trust him so much by talking here, he can't trash talk about his own products.


----------



## Puck

Rotating the sensor during testing is a good point. When I tested multiple times with zero acceleration I kept the mouse 90* and used a ruler to keep the exact distance across the x axis. With a curved free-arm swing, their is a much larger margin for error.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> Man, the logitech mice what uses avago 9500/800 sensors have acceleration right ? And you hear CPate saying that it uses "Delta zero" technology at the same time they call delta zero to a sensor that can track accuarately without acceleration or prediction, so *** ?
> Logitech is a company, and he is in charge to take our money as he's the product manager, I woulnd't trust him so much by talking here, he can't trash talk about his own products.


The obvious difference there being they did not advertise their laser mice as having no acceleration.


----------



## CPate

We don't claim that our laser-based sensors have Delta Zero technology. Delta Zero, as people here have surmised, is shorthand on our side for sensors that achieve a non-perceptible level of speed-related accuracy variance - so that enthusiasts can look at a new product with a new sensor that no one has ever used before and have confidence that it will have a level of performance that meets their expectations. All of the testing we've done on this sensor shows that it has better performance in this metric than anything else we've ever used. That's why we put it in our top of the line mouse.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> Chris I know you can't reveal stuff related to future projects... but, *have you ever had any plan to make a small mouse with a sensor like this or g400's one ?* No one in the market have, I only know the abyssus (jittery) and the kana v2 (not even available at my country + high lod).


As mentioned before, I am prohibited from discussing development on products that are not listed on our website (or that have previously shipped and have been discontinued.) I'm guessing 3m/sec from G100s is inadequate for you, so as such we do not currently have a product that meets your needs.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> The obvious difference there being they did not advertise their laser mice as having no acceleration.


Yes they did... they call them "delta zero".


----------



## Ricey20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> Man, the logitech mice what uses avago 9500/800 sensors have acceleration right ? And you hear CPate saying that it uses "Delta zero" technology at the same time they call delta zero to a sensor that can track accuarately without acceleration or prediction, so *** ?
> Logitech is a company, and he is in charge to take our money as he's the product manager, I woulnd't trust him so much by talking here, he can't trash talk about his own products.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> Yes they did... they call them "delta zero".


This is slightly incorrect. Logitech knows the avago 9500/9800 has acceleration which is probably (Edit: CPate answered above)why they don't label mice with those sensors as "Delta Zero". The only delta zero mice are the G100s (Avago AM010), G400s (Avago 3090/95), G600s (AM010), and now the G502. You'll notice that the only mice that are labeled as "Delta Zero" are optical based. It is true that they are a company and aim to make money but we don't have enough tests yet to determine if this new sensor has noticeable accel or not. So far from playing Titanfall and CS:GO I haven't noticed any acceleration. In fact, if anything it seems to have less smoothing than my Avior 7000.


----------



## dranas

I've had this mouse for around 24 hours now. I have to say its one of the best mice I have ever used. I have large hands and it feels comfortable in my hand, the scroll wheel is smooth. The left and right scroll is very nice as well. I use 1 weight in the front and 2 in the back. I personally like weighty mice. The USB cord is braided which is a nice touch. The sensor is top notch in my opinion, its very smooth and accurate.


----------



## xSociety

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dranas*
> 
> I've had this mouse for around 24 hours now. I have to say its one of the best mice I have ever used. I have large hands and it feels comfortable in my hand, the scroll wheel is smooth. The left and right scroll is very nice as well. I use 1 weight in the front and 2 in the back. I personally like weighty mice. The USB cord is braided which is a nice touch. The sensor is top notch in my opinion, its very smooth and accurate.


Palm grip or what? I'm 6'5" and have large hands so I use a fingertip grip.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> *We don't claim that our laser-based sensors have Delta Zero technology*. Delta Zero, as people here have surmised, is shorthand on our side for sensors that achieve a non-perceptible level of speed-related accuracy variance - so that enthusiasts can look at a new product with a new sensor that no one has ever used before and have confidence that it will have a level of performance that . All of the testing we've done on this sensor shows that it has better performance in this metric than anything else we've ever used. That's why we put it in our top of the line mouse.
> As mentioned before, I am prohibited from discussing development on products that are not listed on our website (or that have previously shipped and have been discontinued.) *I'm guessing 3m/sec from G100s* is inadequate for you, so as such we do not currently have a product that meets your needs.


Surprinsingly I have to eat my words, I thought I saw "Delta zero" on some of your laser sensor based mice but I've just checked on the site and they're not labeled as that.

G100s is good but yes, the presicion and the low tracking rates are not enough for me, and now if your claims of this sensor are right, I'll get one just to see how the pcb is and try to fit it in other shell xD.

edit:
This part is the one that makes me hate this:
http://puu.sh/82G4M.jpg

I think I'll grab a saw and do this:
http://puu.sh/82Gam.jpg


----------



## Ricey20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> Surprinsingly I have to eat my words, I thought I saw "Delta zero" on some of your laser sensor based mice but I've just checked on the site and they're not labeled as that.
> 
> G100s is good but yes, the presicion and the low tracking rates are not enough for me, and now if your claims of this sensor are right, I'll get one just to see how the pcb is and try to fit it in other shell xD.
> 
> edit:
> This part is the one that makes me hate this:
> http://puu.sh/82G4M.jpg
> 
> I think I'll grab a saw and do this:
> http://puu.sh/82Gam.jpg


Let us know how the sawing goes. Not a huge fan of that blue area either but so far it hasn't bothered me too much. I also noticed that is indeed slightly front heavy, I had to put a weight at the back end of the mouse to balance it more


----------



## metal571

If they never listed any of their laser mice as Delta-Zero, that metric holds some pretty good weight. Few companies would admit whether or not the sensors being used in their mice actually qualify as having zero hardware acceleration. That is impressive in its own right, and I can easily respect that transparency. We don't get that often.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricey20*
> 
> Let us know how the sawing goes. Not a huge fan of that blue area either but so far it hasn't bothered me too much.


When they ship it to Brazil or Argentina I'll get one and do the mod xD. I'm using the roccat savu and I've sawed it at the same
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> If they never listed any of their laser mice as Delta-Zero, that metric holds some pretty good weight. Few companies would admit whether or not the sensors being used in their mice actually qualify as having zero hardware acceleration. That is impressive in its own right, and I can easily respect that transparency. We don't get that often.


Agree, I wasn't sure and as every company are a group of liars I thought Logitech was part of them, but they are the only gaming company that is actually telling the truth about their products.
Damn I just remember when Kim Rom (steelseries employee) first said that they were fixing kinzu v1 acceleration, 2 months later when they failed, they claimed that acceleration was a feature of the mouse LOL!.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> When they ship it to Brazil or Argentina I'll get one and do the mod xD. I'm using the roccat savu and I've sawed it at the same
> Agree, I wasn't sure and as every company are a group of liars I thought Logitech was part of them, but they are the only gaming company that is actually telling the truth about their products.
> Damn I just remember when Kim Rom (steelseries employee) first said that they were fixing kinzu v1 acceleration, 2 months later when they failed, they claimed that acceleration was a feature of the mouse LOL!.


SS even made a page about it on their website admitting it was "designed" to have acceleration on purpose. Bull****.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xSociety*
> 
> Palm grip or what? I'm 6'5" and have large hands so I use a fingertip grip.


I use fingertip and this mouse is extremely comfortable. It doesn't exactly look comfortable but in hand it's pretty amazing for me personally. I'm going to stock up on these when there are more on the shelves.


----------



## Mastoras78

One problem is the lack of software able to measure responsiveness, jitter , smoothing, acceleration and more. Enotus is too old and can only measure PCS reliably. New generation sensors are getting so good and its harder to spot weaknesses. Better products is great news but so hard for someone to review them objectively. Human error, personal preferences, different conditions, hardware setup makes this task even harder. I would be surprised if companies like Logitech don't use some kind of advanced software to tune or test their products. I wish some day they will release a Lite version of this software for public use. Its a win-win situation from my point of view. Prestige and sales for them, a tool for us.







Razer already doing something similar with Game Booster adding brand name value


----------



## dranas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xSociety*
> 
> Palm grip or what? I'm 6'5" and have large hands so I use a fingertip grip.


I use finger tip grip.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> All these test arent really accurate. You twitch the mouse ever so slightly and the measurement is gone. And in twitch, I mean if you rotate it around the sensor pivot. The only way to get stable and decent results is to exclude human movement from the test.


If you never lift up your mouse and you have the exact same start and end position, you should end up at the same location on the screen barring movement above the pcs, or acceleration. Having a low sensitivity minimizes the margin for error in start and end location, to the point where such a large discrepancy can't be explained through it.

also, i mean, i'm testing it with another mouse and getting the opposite desirable outcomes. The only difference in the method is the mouse. How do i do the same test for acceleration with 2 mice and use the same methods and get two opposite results consistently, over and over again. The only variable is the mouse.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Can you do the same test using the bare table? How fast are you swinging - I was doing normal speed left/right swipe, didn't try a super fast twitch movement.
> 
> The only thing I can think of besides drivers would be the pad difference. My pad is perfectly flat and smooth, brushed and polished stainless.


my table isn't very smooth, and i shouldn't use a mouse on it.

i think the most likely explanation for the discrpenacy for our tests, is myself moving the mouse faster then you. Maybe you aren't moving the mouse fast enough in your short 6 inch test where you're trying to also be extremely precise, for there to be noticable acceleration outside the range of margin for error. With my larger mouspad, i have more room to bring the mouse to a high speed and back down again to trigger more significant acceleration.

i do think i have my old mouspad somewhere, i guess i'll test with it.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> Could you do a csgo demo with the test ? Put the crosshair to the edge of the box and then move the crosshair... you know.


i've never done a csgo demo or know if its a specific box you're talking about. i can do it if you explain what exactly you want me to do as if i were an idiot.


----------



## Atavax

ok, did acceleration test with my QcK+ (yes, i made sure to tune the mouse for it before doing the test as well). Because rotating the the axis could skew results i returned the mouse to the exact same position every time, so that the only discrepancy should be from poor tracking. I started at the edge of the crate every time. Not a single time did it reach the crate on the way back, did it at least 20 times.


----------



## Puck

This is strange that you are still showing discrepancies.

I just verified again, *zero* acceleration at any speed or distance, fast, slow, etc. Always lands on the same exact x-axis point. I will post a FRAPS video tomorrow if I have time. In my case, I am ready to say that I am 100% positive that my G502 has literally zero acceleration, just like the Logitech rep claimed.

How are you bracing the mouse to be sure you are traveling the same distance each time, and what res is your game running at? I bet you are going a tiny bit more or less farther distance due to the arc of your arm swing, and at these DPI/sensitivity levels (especially at a lower resolution) just a tiny 1/4in difference in mouse movement is a huge amount of on screen movement.

I literally just put my mousepad against the edge of my case, then placed a straight object(spare GPU shroud lying around actually LOL) along the bottom of my pad. I can swing the mouse any distance away from my case at any speed, and when I bring it back it is dead on the same vertical line as the first shot. It is the best sensor I have ever tested.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> ok, did acceleration test with my QcK+ (yes, i made sure to tune the mouse for it before doing the test as well). Because rotating the the axis could skew results i returned the mouse to the exact same position every time, so that the only discrepancy should be from poor tracking. I started at the edge of the crate every time. Not a single time did it reach the crate on the way back, did it at least 20 times.


I trust your test, I just wanted you to record the csgo demo. Can you do the same test but going really fast in one direction and then coming back in the opposite, a lot of mice fail that test.

GO REALLY FAST----> THEN CHANGE DIRECTION OF THE SWIPE<---- (The roccat savu dies at this test)


----------



## Ino.

I wouldn't trust any accel test either, because there's far too much possibility for human error. Once the 502 is available on Amazon in Germany I'll try it out myself to see if there is any accel.

Btw Atavax results being off in accel tests done by hand can be because you are not used to the shape and tilt the mouse differently. I'm not denying the possibility of accel, but I just won't trust a singular test claiming something on a forum without any take on the methodology used. You'd need a very good video to prove any accel to me, and that would probably too much hassle (recording your hand/mouse movement together with ingame footage)


----------



## Puck

Now I am determined to get a sure answer, so I will be making a test rig to test mouse acceleration. Two different setups in mind.

I am pretty much 99% sure that this sensor has none.


----------



## the1onewolf

TEAR IT APART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## hza

Ever considered a faulty sensor? Like 1st batch blabla... @Atavax

However, good to see a G602-G500 hybrid. I wonder when there'll be replacements for G710+ and the other G mice

P.S.: Haters gonna hate


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Ever considered a faulty sensor? Like 1st batch blabla... @Atavax
> 
> However, good to see a G602-G500 hybrid. I wonder when there'll be replacements for G710+ and the other G mice
> 
> P.S.: Haters gonna hate


I want your deathadder 3g.


----------



## Ukkooh

I think I'll get one of these to try it out too if I can get one with a decent price. The current pricing is 100% more than what I paid for my Avior.








Did any of you who own it already notice any real improvement over 3310/3090?


----------



## Carniflex

They should release a gamin trackball







There is none existing atm, all of them are a bit boring and aimed at "productivity". A good solid gaming trackball with nice fat ball on it and all the bells and whistles and buttons they can think of







That would be interesting. Probably even more niche than trackballs are atm


----------



## ibelieveicanfly

http://gaming.logitech.com.cn/zh-cn/product/g90-optical-gaming-mouse

Now I think that the hype for G90 is over when u see this page, even though it's in chinese, just look at the pictures.......


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ibelieveicanfly*
> 
> http://gaming.logitech.com.cn/zh-cn/product/g90-optical-gaming-mouse
> 
> Now I think that the hype for G90 is over when u see this page, even though it's in chinese, just look at the pictures.......


G90 was already confirmed to be a China only rebrand of a G100s.


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> All these test arent really accurate. You twitch the mouse ever so slightly and the measurement is gone. And in twitch, I mean if you rotate it around the sensor pivot. The only way to get stable and decent results is to exclude human movement from the test.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> If you never lift up your mouse and you have the exact same start and end position, you should end up at the same location on the screen barring movement above the pcs, or acceleration. Having a low sensitivity minimizes the margin for error in start and end location, to the point where such a large discrepancy can't be explained through it.
> 
> also, i mean, i'm testing it with another mouse and getting the opposite desirable outcomes. The only difference in the method is the mouse. How do i do the same test for acceleration with 2 mice and use the same methods and get two opposite results consistently, over and over again. The only variable is the mouse.


Shell is actually correct. Unless the mouse movement horizontally from line A to line B is 100% linear without any pivots, it is not an accurate test. An accurate test would be encompassing the mouse with a square box where it is parallel with the sensor vertically, and the square box being parallel with lines A and B. A raw human pivot is a very inaccurate test, unless it is a controlled pivot which is harder to produce than the square box method.

For the G400/MX518 shape-set (I don't know about the G502) this is possible without a square because the right side of the mouse are aligned with the sensor vertically, giving a close to perfect horizontal movement.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Shell is actually correct. Unless the mouse movement horizontally from line A to line B is 100% linear without any pivots, it is not an accurate test. An accurate test would be encompassing the mouse with a square box where it is parallel with the sensor vertically, and the square box being parallel with lines A and B. A raw human pivot is a very inaccurate test, unless it is a controlled pivot which is harder to produce than the square box method.
> 
> For the G400/MX518 shape-set (I don't know about the G502) this is possible without a square because the right side of the mouse are aligned with the sensor vertically, giving a close to perfect horizontal movement.


it is inaccurate because a pivot could effect the distance to the edge of the mouspad, correct? But if the mouse starts and ends at the same location with the mouse the same rotation, shouldn't it be the same spot on the screen no matter what you did inbetween?

you can think of the path as a triangle. You move towards the edge in a straight line, the you move back, and the angle might be slightly different and the distance of those two lines might be slightly different, but if after drawing those two lines, you move the mouse to the exact start position, the end location is the same as the start location on the pad, it should be the same ingame.


----------



## Mastoras78

Where is Mythbusters when you need them....


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> it is inaccurate because a pivot could effect the distance to the edge of the mouspad, correct? But if the mouse starts and ends at the same location with the mouse the same rotation, shouldn't it be the same spot on the screen no matter what you did inbetween?


That is if you are talented enough to produce a rotation with that much accuracy. I am assuming you are not a robot, so therefore (more) inaccuracies exist. IF your rotation is the "same" then your test is valid, however as mentioned before... Anyways, it would not hurt to try a more controlled test, however you would have to mark on your mousepad and try to make accurate measurements.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> That is if you are talented enough to produce a rotation with that much accuracy. I am assuming you are not a robot, so therefore (more) inaccuracies exist. IF your rotation is the "same" then your test is valid, however as mentioned before... Anyways, it would not hurt to try a more controlled test, however you would have to mark on your mousepad and try to make accurate measurements.


well, there is a straight lip on the mouse's thumb rest, it would be easy to make that parallel to the mouspad edge before and after the test. That should make the rotation the same, should it not?


----------



## Atavax

ok, my final acceleration test to try to achieve as high precision as possible. I'm going to use the Hayate because the logo is in the bottom right instead of the bottom left and because its thicker, the edge is better defined and more rigid. I am going to have the thumb rest parallel to the left mouse pad edge. i am then going to have the bottom most point of the mouse exactly hitting the edge of the bottom of the mouse pad. I will then fire a shot to mark the starting position, so i don't have to bother also making it precisely match a precise line as well. I then am going to swing the mouse upper right, making sure the sensor avoids the logo in the bottom right, then slowly move the mouse back to the original position with the thumb rest parallel to the left edge and the bottom more point just meeting the bottom edge of the mouse pad.


----------



## discoprince

well i just got mine,
i can tell you just from holding the mouse for a few minutes that that sniper button is in a really bad spot. the way my hand comfortably grips the mouse leaves my thumb resting pretty much on top of it. other than that the shape is good.

will post an in depth review when i get more time with it.


----------



## metal571

If Logitech sends me one, I'll give it the full review treatment. Video + full writeup here.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> If Logitech sends me one, I'll give it the full review treatment. Video + full writeup here.


Haha, same here. I would even compare it to my G602, G700, G500 and G5 lol.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Haha, same here. I would even compare it to my G602, G700, G500 and G5 lol.


Damn some of you guys are big Logitech fans. The G5 BF2142 edition was actually my first gaming mouse. When that broke I requested an MX518 as a replacement, and I also ended up owning a G400 and G400s down the line. WAY too much experience with that shape, it is comfy for the first few hours but then with the amount of lifting I do it ends up massively painful for my pinky finger due to the way they force you to hold the right side of the mouse. This time they finally removed the ridge and it looks good.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> If Logitech sends me one, I'll give it the full review treatment. Video + full writeup here.


and if logitech sends me two of them, i would do the same + positive review regardless the true quality


----------



## Atavax

so i change settings on the chip, reboot computer and half the settings don't save... Its not even consistent. like one time i rebooted and lost the saved mouspad tuning of the hayate and another time i didn't loose the tuning of the hayate.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> *Damn some of you guys are big Logitech fans*. The G5 BF2142 edition was actually my first gaming mouse. When that broke I requested an MX518 as a replacement, and I also ended up owning a G400 and G400s down the line. WAY too much experience with that shape, it is comfy for the first few hours but then with the amount of lifting I do it ends up massively painful for my pinky finger due to the way they force you to hold the right side of the mouse. This time they finally removed the ridge and it looks good.


I have no reason not to be. We've owned so many Logitech mice over the years and not one of them has broken. We've just replaced them because we were like, meh, its getting old, throw it in a drawer as a backup.
*EDIT*
Our G5 was bought brand new when it first came out like 6 years ago, still being used and gamed on today.


----------



## xSociety

I'm already so used to my M45 that even if Logitech comes out with a g9x replacement I don't know if I'd bother. It'd probably be full of non-essential marketing gimmicks anyway. They'd need to keep the same shape with customizable grips and all that. I have zero faith that will be the case. Disappointing.

I waited as long as I could. Hell, I would've bought more than one if they were still in production.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> so i change settings on the chip, reboot computer and half the settings don't save... Its not even consistent. like one time i rebooted and lost the saved mouspad tuning of the hayate and another time i didn't loose the tuning of the hayate.


Dude I think you got a bad mouse. I haven't had any of those issues at all. I also can't produce any acceleration issues.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> I have no reason not to be. We've owned so many Logitech mice over the years and not one of them has broken. We've just replaced them because we were like, meh, its getting old, throw it in a drawer as a backup.
> *EDIT*
> Our G5 was bought brand new when it first came out like 6 years ago, still being used and gamed on today.


Lucky.

My G5 developed the loose cord connection after 2 1/2 years. To date that was my most reliable mouse. The MX518 replacement I got which was brand new started double clicking on the RMB in just 1 year of ownership. That's when I looked into Razer. And that's when I got BURNED by Razer. Then I moved to SS Sensei, awful sensor. Now I'm with Mionix, and am also a beta tester for them. If they ever send me that NASH 20 I'll review it lol. Very happy with this company.

People need to stop praising the G9X, just its shape. The sensor is awful, at least for FPS.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> I have no reason not to be. We've owned so many Logitech mice over the years and not one of them has broken. We've just replaced them because we were like, meh, its getting old, throw it in a drawer as a backup.
> *EDIT*
> Our G5 was bought brand new when it first came out like 6 years ago, still being used and gamed on today.


Logitech's mouseman dual optical is actually the most durable mouse I've come across. It was bought near release and still works perfectly to this day and is still in use. However the feet are completely worn out meaning there is no feet. Actually the bottom plastic is actually pretty worn out too.


----------



## Mastoras78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> If Logitech sends me one, I'll give it the full review treatment. Video + full writeup here.


Lol same here. Fanboy alert !



My gear is outdated


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> Logitech's mouseman dual optical is actually the most durable mouse I've come across. It was bought near release and still works perfectly to this day and is still in use. However the feet are completely worn out meaning there is no feet. Actually the bottom plastic is actually pretty worn out too.


Get new feet


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> Logitech's mouseman dual optical is actually the most durable mouse I've come across. It was bought near release and still works perfectly to this day and is still in use. However the feet are completely worn out meaning there is no feet. Actually the bottom plastic is actually pretty worn out too.


Can confirm that, it was my first optical mouse, in use since release until 2008, then I switched to Razer DA and had that for a while, keeping the Dual Optical for my laptop in its bag. It is still going strong, but the sensor(s) just don't work for my low sens for gaming.


----------



## Atavax

i disable all but 1 profile, reboot, all 3 profiles active... son of a *****...


----------



## discoprince

So i disabled the sniper button, its now a glorified thumb rest. I set up my DPI steps, 450 and 1150. They are both more responsive than the 450, 1150 steps on my zowie ec2 evo cl, i noticed this right away. Just tuned the mouse to my black hayate and did some paint tests. No jitter or prediction.

Now im not much of an FPS player but I do play BF4 for fun and ran around in a match getting a feel for the shape and sensor. It didnt make me go 30-0 on dust 2 (lol thats for the CS players) but I didnt notice any acceleration (which I would since I can notice it on my sensei as soon as i plug the mouse in) while swiping, sniping or run and gunning.

I don't play CS/CS-GO (i do watch competitive matches though) or TF2 so I'm not going to install them and test them just to appease those players on here. Sorry. Get someone on ESR to do it.

Ill try to post some pics and stuff when I get more hours with the mouse in, this is just a quick impressions review.

Is this mouse going to be for everyone? No, absolutely not, I can nit pick quite a few things on the mouse that will turn the mouse heads on here away, although if further testing reveals that the sensor proves to be everything logitech says it is, i can see people who have disregarded the mouse so far picking it up.

I'm not sponsored or payed by any company to review this mouse, I have a job, I work 50 hrs a week and purchased this with my own money and some faith in Logitech products. I still remember the day I picked up my G5 from Circut City (way back when they were still in business) and I kind of got that old nostalgic feeling again with this mouse.

More to come.

Also, the mouse is more narrow than the pictures and its not as heavy as I thought, no weights for me. The rubber grips on the sides are nice too.


----------



## xSociety

G9x might not have had the best sensor, but damn did it fit my grip like a glove and had all the features I could ever want. I'd take comfort over a better sensor any day. The sensor never stopped me from going on 50 kill streaks in BF3 and top of the leaderboards in Instagib servers in UT2k4.


----------



## pifive

Tried this mouse in best buy.. shocking disappointed ...... Is there a way of getting the g9x back logitech? I mean why discontinue the best mouse ever you guys have created for a garbage like this?

Now I have to search the interwebs to buy 2 or 3 g9x due to this company changing what is not broken.

my rant ends here.mad.gif


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pifive*
> 
> *Tried this mouse in best buy*.. shocking disappointed ...... Is there a way of getting the g9x back logitech? I mean why discontinue the best mouse ever you guys have created for a garbage like this?
> 
> Now I have to search the interwebs to buy 2 or 3 g9x due to this company changing what is not broken.
> 
> my rant ends here.mad.gif


How it hasnt been released yet?


----------



## mksteez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> How it hasnt been released yet?


Best buy carries it for some reason


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mksteez*
> 
> Best buy carries it for some reason


Oh common best buy canada/futureshop. Get this mouse in already!


----------



## boogdud

I got mine yesterday at Best Buy in the US. They're spreading fast. Mouse is amazing.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> well, there is a straight lip on the mouse's thumb rest, it would be easy to make that parallel to the mouspad edge before and after the test. That should make the rotation the same, should it not?


Err ofcourse not.

You start with an ofset of 0 degrees between the mouse edge and the mousepad. While moving the mouse you pivot it around the sensor a 2 times by 1-2 degrees. You get to the edge of the mouse. You reverse the movement, but now pivoting it 4 times around the sensor. You end up with a 0 degree offset and a completely different point on screen.

Not only are the start and end important, but every single position inbetween. This is why a human cannot get this accuracy. And if you are tersting for accel, then you are moving the thing at speed. And basically this give a huge error.


----------



## the1onewolf

Since we're all pitching.
Well, if logitech sends me one, I'll pair it with my G240


----------



## r0ach

*@Cpate:*

How do you address the problem that this is a "gaming mouse", yet the vast majority of game players use 6/11 cursor speed settings, and between 400-800 DPI. When you release new sensors with DPI over ten times higher than it needs to be, it requires unacceptably high amounts of anti-jitter smoothing to make the high DPI levels less eratic, while also destroying cursor quality for all low DPI levels in the process from the high smoothing applied.

What exactly has Logitech done with this G502 mouse to fix this problem? If your answer is nothing, we can all go ahead and write this mouse off as a scam because it would do the opposite of what a gaming mouse is supposed to do, ie: perform well in gaming.

To give an idea of what I consider acceptable smoothing, the 3500 DPI G400 is the absolute highest you can go, while I consider the 4000 DPI firmware of the A3090 completely unacceptable smoothing-wise.


----------



## Atavax

someone else with the mouse. perform this very simple test. In the software. go to the profiles. disable all but 1 profile. make sure the program is fully closed. now relaunch the program, are all 3 profiles now active again? This happens to me, i don't even need to reboot.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> someone else with the mouse. perform this very simple test. In the software. go to the profiles. disable all but 1 profile. make sure the program is fully closed. now relaunch the program, are all 3 profiles now active again? This happens to me, i don't even need to reboot.


I've never had this problem. What happens to me sometimes is the mouse flips over to internal storage for some reason, causing the single profile thing to happen. Literally just a button for me to fix it.


----------



## nlmiller0015

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> *@Cpate:*
> 
> How do you address the problem that this is a "gaming mouse", yet the vast majority of game players use 6/11 cursor speed settings, and between 400-800 DPI. When you release new sensors with DPI over ten times higher than it needs to be, it requires unacceptably high amounts of anti-jitter smoothing to make the high DPI levels less eratic, while also destroying cursor quality for all low DPI levels in the process from the high smoothing applied.
> 
> What exactly has Logitech done with this G502 mouse to fix this problem? If your answer is nothing, we can all go ahead and write this mouse off as a scam because it would do the opposite of what a gaming mouse is supposed to do, ie: perform well in gaming.
> 
> To give an idea of what I consider acceptable smoothing, the 3500 DPI G400 is the absolute highest you can go, while I consider the 4000 DPI firmware of the A3090 completely unacceptable smoothing-wise.


i remeber skylit saying not all srom are the same because of higher dpi he posted it some where on the miniox 7000 page i believe


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nlmiller0015*
> 
> i remeber skylit saying not all srom are the same because of higher dpi he posted it some where on the miniox 7000 page i believe


I haven't kept up with the Mionix AVIOR 7000 thread. Most people speculated that all current firmware implementations required the same smoothing to be applied on every DPI. Are you saying this Mionix Avior 7000 is the first mouse ever to not do this?


----------



## nlmiller0015

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I haven't kept up with the Mionix AVIOR 7000 thread. Most people speculated that all current firmware implementations required the same smoothing to be applied on every DPI. Are you saying this Mionix Avior 7000 is the first mouse ever to not do this?


im not sure I was just saying what I read from Skylit post im no expert when it comes to mouse coding and stuff like that


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pifive*
> 
> Tried this mouse in best buy.. shocking disappointed ...... Is there a way of getting the g9x back logitech? I mean why discontinue the best mouse ever you guys have created for a garbage like this?
> 
> Now I have to search the interwebs to buy 2 or 3 g9x due to this company changing what is not broken.
> 
> my rant ends here.mad.gif


Dude, try the M45 already.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> How it hasnt been released yet?


It's out in the US in Best Buy stores everywhere AFAIK...

Also Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Proteus-Tunable-Customizable-910-004074/dp/B00IRHE892/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1397159424&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=logitch+g502


----------



## pifive

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Dude, try the M45 already.
> It's out in the US in Best Buy stores everywhere AFAIK...
> 
> Also Amazon.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Proteus-Tunable-Customizable-910-004074/dp/B00IRHE892/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1397159424&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=logitch+g502


You advising me to get m45 in replacement of the almighty G9x? For real?


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Dude, try the M45 already.


what about its sensor? smoothing?

after a month of use of the DA2013 I switched back to the MMO7....what should I say? I thought that smoothness was bull**** like acceleration, but it was none.
You get used to acceleration, but not to smoothness nor inconsistent accel.
the PTE sensor is the snappiest and most responsive I ever used (G700 and DA2013), i can flickshot multiple opponents much faster.
I am not bothered at all by acceleration(if it's consistent, not like the avago 9800) , Zaxis issue nor weight.

i love the DA2013 shape....maybe the new mamba is the best option for me? (weighty and PTE sensor)


----------



## mksteez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Dude, try the M45 already.
> It's out in the US in Best Buy stores everywhere AFAIK...
> 
> Also Amazon.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Proteus-Tunable-Customizable-910-004074/dp/B00IRHE892/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1397159424&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=logitch+g502


*Usually ships within 1 to 2 months.* lol


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mksteez*
> 
> *Usually ships within 1 to 2 months.* lol


It was available a couple of days ago I ordered mine should be here tomorrow, I guess they ran out of stock.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> what about its sensor? smoothing?
> 
> after a month of use of the DA2013 I switched back to the MMO7....what should I say? I thought that smoothness was bull**** like acceleration, but it was none.
> You get used to acceleration, but not to smoothness nor inconsistent accel.
> the PTE sensor is the snappiest and most responsive I ever used (G700 and DA2013), i can flickshot multiple opponents much faster.
> I am not bothered at all by acceleration(if it's consistent, not like the avago 9800) , Zaxis issue nor weight.
> 
> i love the DA2013 shape....maybe the new mamba is the best option for me? (weighty and PTE sensor)


Do me a favor and NEVER judge smoothing overall by the S3988. There is no acceleration on the PTE. I straight up kill with the Avior, and I don't find any difference in latency between it and my 3090 mice.

Also, the new Mamba is a piece of ****. It has dynamic CPI scaling which is garbage. Do your research and use different mice before straight up bashing this sensor or that sensor or blanket-blaming based on smoothing. Smoothing only came up because a certain member of this forum made a big deal about it, and while it applies in various forms, it is very minute on the 3310 as far as I can feel.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pifive*
> 
> You advising me to get m45 in replacement of the almighty G9x? For real?


Of course I am. There is another member of this forum who has made the switch and couldn't be happier. The sensor is far, far better and the shape is quite similar.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Do me a favor and NEVER judge smoothing overall by the S3988. There is no acceleration on the PTE. I straight up kill with the Avior, and I don't find any difference in latency between it and my 3090 mice.
> 
> Also, the new Mamba is a piece of ****. It has dynamic CPI scaling which is garbage. Do your research and use different mice before straight up bashing this sensor or that sensor or blanket-blaming based on smoothing. Smoothing only came up because a certain member of this forum made a big deal about it, and while it applies in various forms, it is very minute on the 3310 as far as I can feel.
> Of course I am. There is another member of this forum who has made the switch and couldn't be happier. The sensor is far, far better and the shape is quite similar.


Unfortunately I have to agree with him. Though the MMO7 is crap for reliability, when the mouse is functioning at 100%, it is perfect. I would do about 20% better in FPS's and Mechwarrior Online with my MMO7 to the G602 I use now. Not sure why. Though I agree with you the mouse itself is garbage.


----------



## xSociety

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pifive*
> 
> You advising me to get m45 in replacement of the almighty G9x? For real?


Just went to a m45 after years of my g9 and then g9x. Yes, he is for real. It is the best replacement I've found BY FAR.

Edit: http://www.overclock.net/t/1479217/new-logitech-g502-proteus-core/40_40#post_22075148


----------



## Puck

I plan to make a test rig to remove the human error variable.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> *@Cpate:*
> 
> How do you address the problem that this is a "gaming mouse", yet the vast majority of game players use 6/11 cursor speed settings, and between 400-800 DPI. When you release new sensors with DPI over ten times higher than it needs to be, it requires unacceptably high amounts of anti-jitter smoothing to make the high DPI levels less eratic, while also destroying cursor quality for all low DPI levels in the process from the high smoothing applied.
> 
> What exactly has Logitech done with this G502 mouse to fix this problem? If your answer is nothing, we can all go ahead and write this mouse off as a scam because it would do the opposite of what a gaming mouse is supposed to do, ie: perform well in gaming.
> 
> To give an idea of what I consider acceptable smoothing, the 3500 DPI G400 is the absolute highest you can go, while I consider the 4000 DPI firmware of the A3090 completely unacceptable smoothing-wise.


This is a totally new sensor, and no compromises were made to reach 12k DPI since that wasnt their design goal. They didn't target a DPI then scale a sensor to reach it, they targeted specs and the sensor happened to be capable of 12k DPI without making any sacrifices. I'm sure with some scaling and smoothing this could have been a 20k DPI mouse if they wanted to play the useless DPI game - one of their chiif engineers has a very interesting (if overly technical) discussion on this already on Youtube, basically saying DPI is nowhere near as important a stat as most manufacturers would have you believe.

After two days of use I am more then happy with the G502. It is the best sensor I have ever used and I have been gaming since the 90's at a wide range of skills. Only gripe was the lack of pinky ledge that I actually only notice while browsing (not gaming), and the left button takes getting used to since my first 15 minutes were spent cursing at missed kills due to randomly changing DPI.

My beloved G9x is now wrapped in a rubber band in a spare parts bin as a backup, next to an 8 year old G5 and where a DA would be if I didn't give it away for free.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xSociety*
> 
> Just went to a m45 after years of my g9 and then g9x. Yes, he is for real. It is the best replacement I've found BY FAR.
> 
> Edit: http://www.overclock.net/t/1479217/new-logitech-g502-proteus-core/40_40#post_22075148


There you are. I knew someone had switched happily.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> I plan to make a test rig to remove the human error variable.
> This is a totally new sensor, and no compromises were made to reach 12k DPI since that wasnt their design goal. They didn't target a DPI then scale a sensor to reach it, they targeted specs and the sensor happened to be capable of 12k DPI without making any sacrifices. I'm sure with some scaling and smoothing this could have been a 20k DPI mouse if they wanted to play the useless DPI game - one of their chiif engineers has a very interesting (if overly technical) discussion on this already on Youtube, basically saying DPI is nowhere near as important a stat as most manufacturers would have you believe.
> 
> After two days of use I am more then happy with the G502. It is the best sensor I have ever used and I have been gaming since the 90's at a wide range of skills. Only gripe was the lack of pinky ledge that I actually only notice while browsing (not gaming), and the left button takes getting used to since my first 15 minutes were spent cursing at missed kills due to randomly changing DPI.
> 
> My beloved G9x is now wrapped in a rubber band in a spare parts bin as a backup, next to an 8 year old G5 and where a DA would be if I didn't give it away for free.


Can't wait to take a look at whatever system you come up with. We haven't seen proper benchmarks since the famous ESReality article.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Unfortunately I have to agree with him. Though the MMO7 is crap for reliability, when the mouse is functioning at 100%, it is perfect. I would do about 20% better in FPS's and Mechwarrior Online with my MMO7 to the G602 I use now. Not sure why. Though I agree with you the mouse itself is garbage.


Super unreliable, the MMO7. PTE has a lot of potential, but too much work has been done lately to hide flaws in it that are screwing with tracking (dynamic CPI scaling, dual sensors).


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Do me a favor and NEVER judge smoothing overall by the S3988. .


I can't understand, what do you mean? there's no smoothing?

as stated, I feel the PTE sensor on the MMO7 much snappier, and i'm not bothered by the CPI scaling thing(i called it acceleration wrongly)...that's why I asked for the mamba.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> I can't understand, what do you mean? there's no smoothing?
> 
> as stated, I feel the PTE sensor on the MMO7 much snappier, and i'm not bothered by the CPI scaling thing(i called it acceleration wrongly)...that's why I asked for the mamba.


Smoothing implies latency, in case you didn't understand that. The S3988 in the DA 2013 has been reported by quite a few people to lag behind quick shots from time to time moreso than other mice.

You should still see if you can find an original Mamba. It's way better with earlier firmwares than the newer one. The Mamba isn't really a great mouse or worth the $$ if you ask me though. Too heavy, crappy build quality. Depends on what you really care about though.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> someone else with the mouse. perform this very simple test. In the software. go to the profiles. disable all but 1 profile. make sure the program is fully closed. now relaunch the program, are all 3 profiles now active again? This happens to me, i don't even need to reboot.


Just verified this on Win7 Pro x64, my LGS software does the same thing. Tried changing pages after unchecking to see if the boxes just dont save automatically, and also tried right-click+running the program as admin before unchecking the boxes and neither worked.

As a generic work-around until they fix that, I set all three profiles exactly the same with the same default DPI tagged, so if I hit the button by accident it won't matter.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Smoothing implies latency, in case you didn't understand that. The S3988 in the DA 2013 has been reported by quite a few people to lag behind quick shots from time to time moreso than other mice.


I didn't understand the meaning of the english sentence.
I know what smoothness is referred to...in fact is quite apparent when i switched to the MMO7
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> You should still see if you can find an original Mamba. It's way better with earlier firmwares than the newer one. The Mamba isn't really a great mouse or worth the $$ if you ask me though. Too heavy, crappy build quality. Depends on what you really care about though.


i prefer to buy new mice, i don't trust used ones....
the mamba should weigh like the MMO7 right? i can play with heavy mice if the shape fits my hand well


----------



## Madog

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> I didn't understand the meaning of the english sentence.
> I know what smoothness is referred to...in fact is quite apparent when i switched to the MMO7
> i prefer to buy new mice, i don't trust used ones....
> the mamba should weigh like the MMO7 right? i can play with heavy mice if the shape fits my hand well


DA 2013 = DeathAdder 2013
S3988 probably refers to the model number of the sensor.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> I didn't understand the meaning of the english sentence.
> I know what smoothness is referred to...in fact is quite apparent when i switched to the MMO7


What he's saying is not to use that particular sensor as a guide to put down something like the 3310. They are not nearly the same thing, performance wise. As far as your mouse/sensor of choice... Go for it. I couldn't disagree with you more about the quality of the mouse you're using or the sensor it's packing, but everyone has their preferences.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> My beloved G9x is now wrapped in a rubber band in a spare parts bin as a backup, next to an 8 year old G5 and where a DA would be if I didn't give it away for free.


Well If your closest comparisson is a g9x and a G5 I understand this feels better.

I don't really take words from randoms as anything serious unless I know the people are known for their knowledge.
I trust people like skylit and derp on oc, that tried a ton of mice, that know the structure of the mouse/sensors.

I mean, if all you have as comparisson is 2 lasermice(As It seems those are the 2 mice you used for the last years) then It is not really a contest for the logitech mouse, It should win.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> What he's saying is not to use that particular sensor as a guide to put down something like the 3310. They are not nearly the same thing, performance wise. As far as your mouse/sensor of choice... Go for it. I couldn't disagree with you more about the quality of the mouse you're using or the sensor it's packing, but everyone has their preferences.


so the 3310 is much better? which are its flaws and strenghts?

about the MMO7, I don't understand why it is not considered reliable or bad quality....why?
I must admitt that i bought it beacuse is fancy and with tons of buttons I use in windows....I have never thinked it could be so good in FPS for me.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Madog*
> 
> DA 2013 = DeathAdder 2013
> S3988 probably refers to the model number of the sensor.


yes, is "never judge smoothing overall by" that i couldn't catch


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> so the 3310 is much better? which are its flaws and strenghts?
> 
> about the MMO7, I don't understand why it is not considered reliable or bad quality....why?
> I must admitt that i bought it beacuse is fancy and with tons of buttons I use in windows....I have never thinked it could be so good in FPS for me.


I've owned mine for just over a year and a half, its broken 3 times on me in that time. I'm not rough on my mice, like I said, I still have 10 year old logitechs that still work, but the mmo7 is so unreliable.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> I've owned mine for just over a year and a half, its broken 3 times on me in that time. I'm not rough on my mice, like I said, I still have 10 year old logitechs that still work, but the mmo7 is so unreliable.


great....i own mine since one month, so i can't comment on that....what's the part that breaks mostly?


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> *@Cpate:*
> 
> How do you address the problem that this is a "gaming mouse", yet the vast majority of game players use 6/11 cursor speed settings, and between 400-800 DPI. When you release new sensors with DPI over ten times higher than it needs to be, it requires unacceptably high amounts of anti-jitter smoothing to make the high DPI levels less eratic, while also destroying cursor quality for all low DPI levels in the process from the high smoothing applied.
> 
> What exactly has Logitech done with this G502 mouse to fix this problem? If your answer is nothing, we can all go ahead and write this mouse off as a scam because it would do the opposite of what a gaming mouse is supposed to do, ie: perform well in gaming.
> 
> To give an idea of what I consider acceptable smoothing, the 3500 DPI G400 is the absolute highest you can go, while I consider the 4000 DPI firmware of the A3090 completely unacceptable smoothing-wise.


I've been pretty skeptical of your ability to detect absurdly minute levels of mouse latency, but I'd still be interested to hear how this new sensor feels to you. If you read all of CPate's posts in this thread, it sounds like (almost) everything you've been pleading for.

Rather than saving money using a sensor already out there, the whole focus of designing the new sensor was as little latency, smoothing, and correction as possible and once that was achieved, additional DPI was only added if it did not compromise those initial goals. How they did this on a technical level, I don't know, but it sounds promising. I believe CPate said it feels more responsive than the G400 you find acceptable.

Of course this is all Logitech's word, but it has been consistent with early feedback from people so far.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> great....i own mine since one month, so i can't comment on that....what's the part that breaks mostly?


It will start randomly not tracking either vertical or horizontal movements. One of them the middle mouse button was extremely sparatic.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> What he's saying is not to use that particular sensor as a guide to put down something like the 3310. They are not nearly the same thing, performance wise. As far as your mouse/sensor of choice... Go for it. I couldn't disagree with you more about the quality of the mouse you're using or the sensor it's packing, but everyone has their preferences.


This is what I was trying to get across, Blash.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> so the 3310 is much better? which are its flaws and strenghts?
> 
> about the MMO7, I don't understand why it is not considered reliable or bad quality....why?
> I must admitt that i bought it beacuse is fancy and with tons of buttons I use in windows....I have never thinked it could be so good in FPS for me.


3310 is a lot better:
No Z-axis issues like the PTE.
No acceleration.
Very high max PCS of 215 IPS.
Low minimum and adjustable LOD.
NATIVE non-interpolated CPI steps from 50-5000 in increments of 50. (nonexistent in native form in an optical sensor up until this point)

The only real drawback is that it doesn't work on some hard mats very well. Either it won't track or it the LOD will be too high. I feel no smoothing or delay in the 3310, and I've used it at both 120 and 144 Hz on my VG248QE. If it was there, I should have felt it. I have specifically optimized my gaming PC to be as transparent to human motor skill as possible. If there was delay that I perceived, I would have posted about that and mentioned it in my extensive review. There is none to feel in practice to me.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> It will start randomly not tracking either vertical or horizontal movements. One of them the middle mouse button was extremely sparatic.


Yeah. The PTE sensor is to blame for you axis disappearing. I've got 4 PTE mice and 3 of them lost the Y axis over the course of a couple months. I just right it off as just another flaw of that sensor.

The 3310 is much snappier in my opinion compared to Razer's newest optical offering. They're also completely different architectures. The biggest flaw I've encountered with the 3310 is how picky it is with certain mouse pads. It won't track or track sporadically on some pads and others (especially hard pads) increase the lift off distance considerably.


----------



## FredgHar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Yeah. The PTE sensor is to blame for you axis disappearing. I've got 4 PTE mice and 3 of them lost the Y axis over the course of a couple months. I just right it off as just another flaw of that sensor.
> 
> The 3310 is much snappier in my opinion compared to Razer's newest optical offering. They're also completely different architectures. The biggest flaw I've encountered with the 3310 is how picky it is with certain mouse pads. It won't track or track sporadically on some pads and others (especially hard pads) increase the lift off distance considerably.


what you mean by razer newest optical offering? AFAIK razer did not offer anything new for past year or more.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FredgHar*
> 
> what you mean by razer newest optical offering? AFAIK razer did not offer anything new for past year or more.


The S3988 in the DA 2013 is new and completely different to previous DA sensors.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The S3988 in the DA 2013 is new and completely different to previous DA sensors.


Exactly.


----------



## Blashyrkh

thanks guys, that's what i wanted to hear....i'll wait for some more g502 reviews and comments about the sensor....than i'll decide.

i use a G240 cloth mat, so the M45 should work (I hope). my only concern is that's too small, is there any other good mouse with the 3310?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> thanks guys, that's what i wanted to hear....i'll wait for some more g502 reviews and comments about the sensor....than i'll decide.
> 
> i use a G240 cloth mat, so the M45 should work (I hope). my only concern is that's too small, is there any other good mouse with the 3310?


Other notable 3310 mice are the Mionix Naos 7000, the Mionix Avior 7000, and the upcoming Roccat Kone Pure Military.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Other notable 3310 mice are the Mionix Naos 7000, the Mionix Avior 7000, and the upcoming Roccat Kone Pure Military.


i see...how comes the mionix are 7000dpi?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> i see...how comes the mionix are 7000dpi?


It's just added interpolation. Marketing BS.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> thanks guys, that's what i wanted to hear....i'll wait for some more g502 reviews and comments about the sensor....than i'll decide.
> 
> i use a G240 cloth mat, so the M45 should work (I hope). my only concern is that's too small, is there any other good mouse with the 3310?


If you want something large, there's always the Naos 7000...or the G502 which seems to have a great sensor at this point.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> someone else with the mouse. perform this very simple test. In the software. go to the profiles. disable all but 1 profile. make sure the program is fully closed. now relaunch the program, are all 3 profiles now active again? This happens to me, i don't even need to reboot.


ill check when I get home, I only set up one profile on the mouse and deleted the rest of the profiles.

also I disabled the sniper button and taped it down so I could hold the mouse with my more natural grip. i have a 17.5cm hand and my thumb hits the back end of the sniper button with my claw grip, how you hold this mouse w/o hitting the sniper button with bigger hands is beyond me.

i can fingertip it without touching the sniper button and i do use that grip often but its not my perfered _in the heat of the moment twitch grip_.

so far im 50/50 on the mouse but the sensor is more or less winning me over. im more so a fan of it because i was a huge fan of the G100s sensor which this is just a modified version of.

honestly this isnt a mouse i would usually go for, its got alot of flash and gimmicks (sniper button, weights etc..) and the $80 price tag oh my. it doesn't have any new or ingenious software that makes the mouse stand out from the rest, mionix has that mouse surface sensor thing and so does razer.

what i noticed right away was something i didn't notice before, is that the other main mice ive used (basically 3090 mice with 4000DPI SROM) is how less responsive they feel compared to the G502. The 450 zowie dpi setting on my ec2 feels MUCH more laggy than the 450 setting I used on the G502, this is something I could not help but notice, although this is something other poeple who've used the mouse (zowie) seemed to notice already.

i still need more time with it.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> honestly this isnt a mouse i would usually go for, its got alot of flash and gimmicks (sniper button, weights etc..) and the $80 price tag oh my. it doesn't have any new or ingenious software that makes the mouse stand out from the rest, mionix has that mouse surface sensor thing and so does razer.


for 80$ price tag you don't have any kind of jimmicks from razer or mionix. plus from razer you get an awfull sensor (smoothness) and no onboard memory.

for me, more buttons and the freespin wheel are an added value, if the sensor is really without smoothness i would buy one for sure


----------



## xmr1

I wish BestBuy wasn't so far away from me so I could try out the sensor for myself. I know most likely I'll hate the shape, weight, and go-go-gadget buttons, so I'd have to take another trip back to return it. Too much time and gas money for me until they're in stock online.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> for 80$ price tag you don't have any kind of jimmicks from razer or mionix. plus from razer you get an awfull sensor (smoothness) and no onboard memory.
> 
> for me, more buttons and the freespin wheel are an added value, if the sensor is really without smoothness i would buy one for sure


I agree (somewhat, my avior7000 and DA2k13 are pretty gimmick free) but I still don't need a mouse with a sniper button and a weight system, esp since I like them light as possible. I lift so I can manage with this one








I do like the free spin wheel, I was always jealous of G9x users for having that feature and of course that was the first feature I wasted 5 minutes on, unlock, spin, lock, unlock, spin, spin, spin....


----------



## SuprUsrStan

I went out and bought the mouse today. The tracking is pretty darn good and the feel is top notch. It's just slightly small for my taste though. I'll most likely return it and just wait for a "G702" as I personally prefer the size of the Naga 2014 and the G700.

Great mouse for those who don't want palm support though


----------



## discoprince

DELETE.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> I went out and bought the mouse today. The tracking is pretty darn good and the feel is top notch. It's just slightly small for my taste though. I'll most likely return it and just wait for a "G702" as I personally prefer the size of the Naga 2014 and the G700.
> 
> Great mouse for those who don't want palm support though


You might like the Naos 7000 if you haven't already tried it.


----------



## Mastoras78

A new video and a small update.

G502 is available for purchase from Logitech site directly for 79.99$ in US. For Europe its 69 GBP but not in stock. Only pre-order. *

* If this is old news just ignore me


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> I went out and bought the mouse today. The tracking is pretty darn good and the feel is top notch. It's just slightly small for my taste though. I'll most likely return it and just wait for a "G702" as I personally prefer the size of the Naga 2014 and the G700.
> 
> Great mouse for those who don't want palm support though


i own the g700, but i don't like that's too narrow, thumb and pinkie stay too near to each others....
the g502 is wider or like the g700?


----------



## Ricey20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> i own the g700, but i don't like that's too narrow, thumb and pinkie stay too near to each others....
> the g502 is wider or like the g700?


Having both side by side, I'd say the G502 is slightly narrower, very slightly.


----------



## paers

That shape and weight are just... ew.

G9x with that sensor and better middle click would be sick tho


----------



## Necroblob

If you put this sensor (or even better, the G400v2 sensor) in a small light mouse then I will buy it. There are several large mice that already offer near perfect performance - Deathadder 3G and 3G, the G400 and the Avior 7000 - but I cannot think of any small light mice that do not have a flaw of some kind.

If Logitech made a premium version of the G100s with a good sensor then they would absolutely clean up.


----------



## Noismo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Necroblob*
> 
> If Logitech made a premium version of the G100s with a good sensor then they would absolutely clean up.


Premium G100s is a dream.


----------



## CPate

Sorry for the delayed replies - I've been on the road all day flying to Boston for PAX East, so I haven't had time to read the forum since late last night.

Side note - Francois Morier, the lead Logitech engineer on the project to design the sensor for Proteus Core, is at the show with me. If any of you will be there feel free to stop by and we'll be happy to talk to you about it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> How do you address the problem that this is a "gaming mouse", yet the vast majority of game players use 6/11 cursor speed settings, and between 400-800 DPI. When you release new sensors with DPI over ten times higher than it needs to be, it requires unacceptably high amounts of anti-jitter smoothing to make the high DPI levels less eratic, while also destroying cursor quality for all low DPI levels in the process from the high smoothing applied.
> 
> What exactly has Logitech done with this G502 mouse to fix this problem? If your answer is nothing, we can all go ahead and write this mouse off as a scam because it would do the opposite of what a gaming mouse is supposed to do, ie: perform well in gaming.
> 
> To give an idea of what I consider acceptable smoothing, the 3500 DPI G400 is the absolute highest you can go, while I consider the 4000 DPI firmware of the A3090 completely unacceptable smoothing-wise.


There is no smoothing in the sensor we use for Proteus Core on any DPI level.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Just verified this on Win7 Pro x64, my LGS software does the same thing. Tried changing pages after unchecking to see if the boxes just dont save automatically, and also tried right-click+running the program as admin before unchecking the boxes and neither worked.
> 
> As a generic work-around until they fix that, I set all three profiles exactly the same with the same default DPI tagged, so if I hit the button by accident it won't matter.


I'll report this to the SW team. I have no idea how that was missed.


----------



## discoprince

@CPate

will this be the sensor logitech uses in its mice gong forward or is that question unanswerable?


----------



## CPate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> @CPate
> 
> will this be the sensor logitech uses in its mice gong forward or is that question unanswerable?


It is a question about future product development and as such I am not able to answer it.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> Sorry for the delayed replies - I've been on the road all day flying to Boston for PAX East, so I haven't had time to read the forum since late last night.
> 
> Side note - Francois Morier, the lead Logitech engineer on the project to design the sensor for Proteus Core, is at the show with me. If any of you will be there feel free to stop by and we'll be happy to talk to you about it.


Ahh that's tempting since I'm in the Boston area, but unfortunately I have some prior commitments this weekend. I've seen Francois in a couple Youtube videos and he sounds really knowledgeable about this stuff.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> what i noticed right away was something i didn't notice before, is that the other main mice ive used (basically 3090 mice with 4000DPI SROM) is how less responsive they feel compared to the G502. The 450 zowie dpi setting on my ec2 feels MUCH more laggy than the 450 setting I used on the G502, this is something I could not help but notice, although this is something other poeple who've used the mouse (zowie) seemed to notice already.
> 
> i still need more time with it.


well, the 450 step of zowie mice are notoriously unresponsive. Try the 2300 step compared to 2300 dpi with the g502, imo the zowie is way more responsive at that step. This weekend i'll be checking to see if there is an easy way to build a rig to definitively show no human error with the acceleration test.


----------



## Ihateallmice

@CPate

Can you honestly see a Counter-Strike team winning a tournament using this mouse? Do you think it can compete with other mice like zowie CL or razer DeathAdder in the FPS scene? Would it not be too heavy for Counter-Strike players as they are known to use 400ish dpi and low sense as they move their entire arm constantly to make accurate shots. And wouldn't all the extra buttons deisgned so close to the thumb rest risk being clicked in important situations? What's your take on this?

It seems to me that you're trying to design it with uses for absolutely everyone and every game and will end up pushing away competitive players which love lightweight mice given how they play for tons of hours every day and FPS'ers which move their arms like mad back and forth. I mean I can't think of a single respected person that uses a sniper button in counter-strike, or even one that needs all those extra buttons next to your m1 with the risk of clicking them at the wrong time.

either way kudos on the sensor. while I haven't tested it I'm happy someone is making progress in giving us better sensor performances. I truly hope we get a G100 variant with the new sensor


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> @CPate
> 
> Can you honestly see a Counter-Strike team winning a tournament using this mouse? Do you think it can compete with other mice like zowie CL or razer DeathAdder in the FPS scene? Would it not be too heavy for Counter-Strike players as they are known to use 400ish dpi and low sense as they move their entire arm constantly to make accurate shots. And wouldn't all the extra buttons deisgned so close to the thumb rest risk being clicked in important situations? What's your take on this?
> 
> I mean I can't think of a single respected person that uses a sniper button in counter-strike, or even one that needs all those extra buttons next to your m1 with the risk of clicking them at the wrong time.


What makes you think this mouse was even designed for a game like counterstrike? Clearly it's not. Seems to me it's made for hybrid moba-mmo-arpg-fps. Which is where the money is anyway. CS players aren't the rock stars anymore, it's the moba folks.

Don't think of it as a "sniper button", it's a g-shift button. Just like on the G600, except instead of it being a third button on your pinky it's reachable by your thumb. You can have completely different buttons mapped for the mouse when you hold down the button and then go right back to your original mappings by letting off.


----------



## Atavax

for the sake of future logitech mice. Can everyone that got a g502 agree that the scroll wheel is bad?


----------



## Mastoras78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> for the sake of future logitech mice. Can everyone that got a g502 agree that the scroll wheel is bad?


Why is bad? I have a similar scroll wheel on G9 and I love it. Actually i wish all mice to have this type of scroll wheel. Atavax judging from your comments i believe this mouse is not for you anyways







.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> for the sake of future logitech mice. Can everyone that got a g502 agree that the scroll wheel is bad?


I haven't gone out to buy mine yet but just looking at the wheel, I have to wonder why, at the very least, there wasn't any rubber covering on it. I love that about the previous "infinite scroll" scroll wheels (just what I call them, I know it's far from infinite) used, like on my G500, so I don't have to touch the bare material. The G502's wheel also looks *slightly* too big, though not overly bulky.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mastoras78*
> 
> Why is bad? I have a similar scroll wheel on G9 and I love it. Actually i wish all mice to have this type of scroll wheel. Atavax judging from your comments i believe this mouse is not for you anyways
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


its slick, it doesn't have the grip of the g9's scroll wheel. Its heavier then the g9's, and its looser, horizontally then the g9's. I liked the g9's scroll wheel. This one might be my least favorite ever. Probably not for me. Still was the first one to spot the software error. Still can critique the mouse.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> someone else with the mouse. perform this very simple test. In the software. go to the profiles. disable all but 1 profile. make sure the program is fully closed. now relaunch the program, are all 3 profiles now active again? This happens to me, i don't even need to reboot.


I just got home and can confirm this happens, it shouldnt.


----------



## zergrush

When there's a PR guy who comes into the forum to "answer" questions about their product that's usually not a good sign. Just sayin. Kim Rom from Steelseries anyone?


----------



## hza

You really compare Kim Rom with anyone else...


----------



## Mastoras78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zergrush*
> 
> When there's a PR guy who comes into the forum to "answer" questions about their product that's usually not a good sign. Just sayin. Kim Rom from Steelseries anyone?


"When there's a PR guy who comes into the forum to "answer" questions about their product that's usually not a good sign".

And when they don't come they just don't care i guess.. right ?

So what you want them to do ?


----------



## zergrush

They don't care regardless of whether they show up or not. That's all I'm going to say about the matter. You will have to read between the lines if you really want to know.
As for me all I would like from Logitech is the G3 shell or MX310 shell with the best optical sensor with native 800DPI and 500Hz polling rate. But it's not going to happen.


----------



## zergrush

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> You really compare Kim Rom with anyone else...


Hmm it's hard to say. I obviously don't know Kim Rom or CPate but I just don't trust them based on all the latest offerings from the big mouse brands.


----------



## ottoman2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zergrush*
> 
> Hmm it's hard to say. I obviously don't know Kim Rom or CPate but I just don't trust them based on all the latest offerings from the big mouse brands.


I think it's a good sign that the people who create the product come to a sophisticated forum such as this, to get feedback and answer some questions. Of course he can't answer every question (do you guys even read what he writes every 2nd post?), but I like the insight that he provides. If you don't like CPate then just ignore him. It would be nice to stay on topic.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> It seems to me that you're trying to design it with uses for absolutely everyone and every game and will end up pushing away competitive players


I feel logitech especially is guilty of this through the years with various releases.

The type of gamer who buys large heavy palm mice with weight adjustment for further heft and a free spinning scroll wheel are the type of gamers who would post on these forums about how happy they are with their 9500/9800 laser mice and how they don't notice the accel. If they were happy with their G500s or whatever they had before, why would they be interested in this? This targeted audience was already happy with their mouse.

But the G502 is released with a sensor that on paper seems pretty much too good to be true but it is wasted on the section of people who are interested in this mouse as a whole. So you get the other side of the audience who is looking for specialized *equipment* to play their favorite games with but that sensor they're interested in is in that big heavy gimmicky toy so they probably aren't going to buy it.

A G100s with this new sensor might be a good idea Logitech.

No solid metal, free spinning scroll wheel that serves no purpose.

No weight system because adding weight to an object that you are quickly lifting and swiping around for hours is completely stupid. Do you see baseball players keep the donut weights on their bats when they step up to the plate? No, they take them off. I'm certain those who think they want a 150g mouse are just confused from some placebo gaming session where they did well.

Maybe some small side buttons that stay out of the way (look at the BST mouse shell, it did side buttons well on a small similarly shaped mouse).

See a mouse on the market that would compete with this? I don't. So far Zowie seems to be the only company looking to sell equipment and not toys.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I feel logitech especially is guilty of this through the years with various releases.
> 
> The type of gamer who buys large heavy palm mice with weight adjustment for further heft and a free spinning scroll wheel are the type of gamers who would post on these forums about how happy they are with their 9500/9800 laser mice and how they don't notice the accel. If they were happy with their G500s or whatever they had before, why would they be interested in this? This targeted audience was already happy with their mouse.
> 
> But the G502 is released with a sensor that on paper seems pretty much too good to be true but it is wasted on the section of people who are interested in this mouse as a whole. So you get the other side of the audience who is looking for specialized *equipment* to play their favorite games with but that sensor they're interested in is in that big heavy gimmicky toy so they probably aren't going to buy it.
> 
> A G100s with this new sensor might be a good idea Logitech.
> 
> No solid metal, free spinning scroll wheel that serves no purpose.
> 
> No weight system because adding weight to an object that you are quickly lifting and swiping around for hours is completely stupid. Do you see baseball players keep the donut weights on their bats when they step up to the plate? No, they take them off. I'm certain those who think they want a 150g mouse are just confused from some placebo gaming session where they did well.
> 
> Maybe some small side buttons that stay out of the way (look at the BST mouse shell, it did side buttons well on a small similarly shaped mouse).
> 
> See a mouse on the market that would compete with this? I don't. So far Zowie seems to be the only company looking to sell equipment and not toys.


just my two cents.

in this forum, there are too many whiners...and many are not even pro players...they want the perfect mouse just to say they have 1:1 mouse movements, it is an obsession. a good player can overcome the flaws of a mouse and kick your ass hard without complaining there is sligtly acceleration or 20g of more weight. you should train more and spend less time whining.

about the weight, not everyone is suited for lightweigth mouse, like not everyone is suited for the same shape.
the baseball analogy isn't properly used because it has no sense, is a totally different matter.
I played crysis 3 yesterday for more than 6 hours straight....with a MMO7....a weitghty aand uncomfortable mouse for FPS with no arm pain or anything else.


----------



## Mastoras78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I feel logitech especially is guilty of this through the years with various releases.
> 
> The type of gamer who buys large heavy palm mice with weight adjustment for further heft and a free spinning scroll wheel are the type of gamers who would post on these forums about how happy they are with their 9500/9800 laser mice and how they don't notice the accel. If they were happy with their G500s or whatever they had before, why would they be interested in this? This targeted audience was already happy with their mouse.
> 
> But the G502 is released with a sensor that on paper seems pretty much too good to be true but it is wasted on the section of people who are interested in this mouse as a whole. So you get the other side of the audience who is looking for specialized *equipment* to play their favorite games with but that sensor they're interested in is in that big heavy gimmicky toy so they probably aren't going to buy it.
> 
> A G100s with this new sensor might be a good idea Logitech.
> 
> No solid metal, free spinning scroll wheel that serves no purpose.
> 
> No weight system because adding weight to an object that you are quickly lifting and swiping around for hours is completely stupid. Do you see baseball players keep the donut weights on their bats when they step up to the plate? No, they take them off. I'm certain those who think they want a 150g mouse are just confused from some placebo gaming session where they did well.
> 
> Maybe some small side buttons that stay out of the way (look at the BST mouse shell, it did side buttons well on a small similarly shaped mouse).
> 
> See a mouse on the market that would compete with this? I don't. So far Zowie seems to be the only company looking to sell equipment and not toys.


About 9500/9800 there is screenshots with pro players using them, most recent on this forum i can remember was a g9x without shell.

Not everyone is a hardcore cs/quake low sensitivity gamer

Target group of G502 is all around gaming fps/moba/mmo. The big deal is the new sensor technology. G502 is 120+ grams without cable.

Yeah i want Logitech to create a custom mouse for me but i understand its not possible.

The tech guy from Logitech is here to discuss for G502, what the topic title says.

I totally agree with what Blashyrkh just said. We need a mod on mice section. All recent topics i track goes off-topic constantly


----------



## Derp

People who "whine" are the reason we have companies selling mice without accel and without prediction or smoothing as selling points. If everyone was content with whatever garbage these companies put in front of them the choices would be much worse.

You are free to lap up what's served to you but I'll still be here flaming the hell out of these companies and explaining why regardless of how many pros are forced to use it.


----------



## hza

Herb derp.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> People who "whine" are the reason we have companies selling mice without accel and without prediction or smoothing as selling points. If everyone was content with whatever garbage these companies put in front of them the choices would be much worse.
> 
> You are free to lap up what's served to you but I'll still be here flaming the hell out of these companies and explaining why regardless of how many pros are forced to use it.


i can't agree more with you, but people will always complain for something...it's too heavy, it's too light, too many buttons, too few buttons, there are too flaws, it's too flawless....
too skepticism, too many free attacks, too much enjoyment in criticising ...a company should make thousand mice to please everyone and that's not possible...

as stated before, there are quite few mouse with good sensor and different shapes (m45, mionixes etc) you could buy those instead of a g502.

maybe it's true that whining lets the companies make mice with less flaws as possible, but thats not what always happens,in effect MANY sensors or mice are worst than those of the previous decade


----------



## xmr1

I don't mean to sound overly critical sometimes -- the last thing I want to do is crap all over someone's hard work -- but I side more with Derp here. I feel like it's the job of the consumer to let companies know they shouldn't get complacent and rest on "good enough" products. I think that's a healthy relationship.

Whether I personally like the G502 or not, I understand this is the kind of mouse that appeals to the masses of entry-level or casual gamers, whatever you want to call them. The reality is those people and their wallets far outweigh the hardcore FPS players that frequent these forums. It's simply a smart business decision by Logitech.

But what my issue is, out of their entire mouse product line, Logitech doesn't have one mouse that hits home with the latter group of people. That market is completely neglected. So when you come out with a new sensor that is supposed to be basically the wet dream of FPS players, but put it in an MMO/RTS type mouse where there are already plenty of options, it stings a little bit.

Don't get me wrong, the sensor sounds fantastic and the obvious deduction is that it will be put into future models (that hopefully fit our mold better), but until then we're kind of left hanging with the status quo.


----------



## treach

Xmr1 youre absolutely right, its not a dedicated fps mouse, no problem unless they release something for us in the future


----------



## Necroblob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I feel logitech especially is guilty of this through the years with various releases.
> 
> The type of gamer who buys large heavy palm mice with weight adjustment for further heft and a free spinning scroll wheel are the type of gamers who would post on these forums about how happy they are with their 9500/9800 laser mice and how they don't notice the accel. If they were happy with their G500s or whatever they had before, why would they be interested in this? This targeted audience was already happy with their mouse.
> 
> But the G502 is released with a sensor that on paper seems pretty much too good to be true but it is wasted on the section of people who are interested in this mouse as a whole. So you get the other side of the audience who is looking for specialized *equipment* to play their favorite games with but that sensor they're interested in is in that big heavy gimmicky toy so they probably aren't going to buy it.
> 
> A G100s with this new sensor might be a good idea Logitech.
> 
> No solid metal, free spinning scroll wheel that serves no purpose.
> 
> No weight system because adding weight to an object that you are quickly lifting and swiping around for hours is completely stupid. Do you see baseball players keep the donut weights on their bats when they step up to the plate? No, they take them off. I'm certain those who think they want a 150g mouse are just confused from some placebo gaming session where they did well.
> 
> Maybe some small side buttons that stay out of the way (look at the BST mouse shell, it did side buttons well on a small similarly shaped mouse).
> 
> See a mouse on the market that would compete with this? I don't. So far Zowie seems to be the only company looking to sell equipment and not toys.


Really well put!

I can understand why Logitech and others focus their efforts on large heavy mice for RTS and MMORPG players. It's the largest and most profitable market so to do anything else would be mad.

But what I don't understand is that when Logitech has a line of 10+ mice none of them cater for a lightweight smaller design. Logitech could use existing designs and existing sensors to dominate this niche. It may not be as large a market, but I'm sure that it would still be profitable. Many people on here have wasted countless sums of money searching for a perfect mouse and would be happy to shell out another £70 for a premium small lightweight mouse that fits their needs.

@CPate could you pass on some of this feedback?


----------



## SuprUsrStan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> A G100s with this new sensor might be a good idea Logitech.
> 
> No solid metal, free spinning scroll wheel that serves no purpose.
> 
> No weight system because adding weight to an object that you are quickly lifting and swiping around for hours is completely stupid. Do you see baseball players keep the donut weights on their bats when they step up to the plate? No, they take them off. I'm certain those who think they want a 150g mouse are just confused from some placebo gaming session where they did well.
> 
> Maybe some small side buttons that stay out of the way (look at the BST mouse shell, it did side buttons well on a small similarly shaped mouse).
> 
> See a mouse on the market that would compete with this? I don't. So far Zowie seems to be the only company looking to sell equipment and not toys.


The G502 was meant to be an update of the G500 series with a better sensor. I'll bet you'll get your wish for a G102 eventually. It's going to take some time but they'll eventually update their entire lineup with this new sensor.


----------



## Nivity

It is not the sensor I am whining about.
It is that logitech took the P12 route with the design.

Basicly a RAT design, heavy, clunky with a crapp "sniper" button.
It shows more and more that logitech wants to enter the P12 transformer mice with all kinds of crap added.

I do enjoy they are trying to get a flawless sensor, perfect.

I am dissapointed about the shell and the direction they are heading.

It already showed with the G400s and so on.
Added some crap, more then doubled the price.

Logitechs name was made from low cost high quality mice.
The legends MX300, MX510/518 and G400 were all low cost no gimmick high performing sensor mice.
There were no added crap like they have on their mice today.

It was perfect.

The only company that does that anymore is Zowie as derp said.
I am only hoping they listen and implement versions with omrons and I hope a sensor like 3310 with different dpi steps.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> I don't mean to sound overly critical sometimes -- the last thing I want to do is crap all over someone's hard work -- but I side more with Derp here. I feel like it's the job of the consumer to let companies know they shouldn't get complacent and rest on "good enough" products. I think that's a healthy relationship.
> 
> Whether I personally like the G502 or not, I understand this is the kind of mouse that appeals to the masses of entry-level or casual gamers, whatever you want to call them. The reality is those people and their wallets far outweigh the hardcore FPS players that frequent these forums. It's simply a smart business decision by Logitech.
> 
> But what my issue is, out of their entire mouse product line, Logitech doesn't have one mouse that hits home with the latter group of people. That market is completely neglected. So when you come out with a new sensor that is supposed to be basically the wet dream of FPS players, but put it in an MMO/RTS type mouse where there are already plenty of options, it stings a little bit.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, the sensor sounds fantastic and the obvious deduction is that it will be put into future models (that hopefully fit our mold better), but until then we're kind of left hanging with the status quo.


FPS genre is "dead" on PC. More people play FPS games on console than on PC. I played CS (primarily) and whatnot for almost a decade. There were no innovative FPS games that keep you motivated long-term. CoD, BF and alike are cool for about 3-4 weeks(?)... CS:GO is getting bigger... slowly... Not sure, if it can revive this almost dead genre. However, why should a company put their efforts into something like this? You wouldn't open a shop with (in your opinion) cool products that don't sell. Why should Logitech put their new 12k dpi (that probably is very good) into a mouse like G400 (for example) and not into the G500 shell? "All" people would buy the cheaper version. No one cares about what 1 out of 10,000 wants. It's about profit, not about someone's likes and dislikes. That was no attack on you, xmr1, just generally speaking.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> for the sake of future logitech mice. Can everyone that got a g502 agree that the scroll wheel is bad?


No, I think you are out of your mind. It's the best 'free spin' wheel they've ever had. I think it's amazing personally. Left/right click and free wheel if you want it AND it's easy to use mouse 3 (depress wheel) unlike every other free wheel they put on their gaming mice. It's an improvement in every way.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> It is not the sensor I am whining about.
> It is that logitech took the P12 route with the design.
> 
> Basicly a RAT design, heavy, clunky with a crapp "sniper" button.
> It shows more and more that logitech wants to enter the P12 transformer mice with all kinds of crap added.
> 
> I do enjoy they are trying to get a flawless sensor, perfect.
> 
> I am dissapointed about the shell and the direction they are heading.
> 
> It already showed with the G400s and so on.
> Added some crap, more then doubled the price.
> 
> Logitechs name was made from low cost high quality mice.
> The legends MX300, MX510/518 and G400 were all low cost no gimmick high performing sensor mice.
> There were no added crap like they have on their mice today.
> 
> It was perfect.
> 
> The only company that does that anymore is Zowie as derp said.
> I am only hoping they listen and implement versions with omrons and I hope a sensor like 3310 with different dpi steps.


Zowie is the only brand that listens to their customers. If they would stop to do that, they would lose all their customers. They didn't come up with 3310 because they were too afraid about the audience's reaction without knowing much about 3310 first. Meaning without 3310 being hyped first.


----------



## Carniflex

I must say that I kind of like Logitech mice. Now I'm not sure about G502 as I'm not familiar with that in particular, but I quite liked G5, then when it's wire become loose I got G500 as a warranty replacement - I dont remember what my issue with that was, exactly, but I believe that also had broken wire after about a year of use (just out of the warranty on the initial G5 by then). I was not as for as G500 surface material compared to G5. So I got G700 and after couple of years it developed the first mouse button registering issue so I just got G700s as a replacement from warranty. Still getting used to it - it's surface treatment is more similar to G5 compared to G700 but we'll see.

While I like Logitech mice there is always something that for me, personally, could be improved. However, building mice for me, personally, would be rather niche things i must admit










I'm kinda optimistic about the future through. With the 3D printing getting cheaper it is not totally unthinkable to start modding the mice with something better than glue gun and tape







- So in the future I would expect to get a good mouse "core" and software and be able to "print" somehow the external chassis exactly to suit for your hand shape and grip type.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> The G502 was meant to be an update of the G500 series with a better sensor. I'll bet you'll get your wish for a G102 eventually. It's going to take some time but they'll eventually update their entire lineup with this new sensor.


The g100 was asia only.

We finally got the G100s but instead of thinking of it as an equal to the G400 with a different shape they decided to downgrade the sensor.

The G90 which is supposed to be a newly released rebranded g100s is asia only as well.

As you can see, from this past behavior I don't think Logitech cares enough to release a high quality smaller mouse and unless enough people "whine" for one we wont see Logitech release it on their own.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

has ayone got a good photo's of the internals? or a link?


----------



## Etizolam

I picked up this mouse yesterday at Best Buy, I am coming from a G400 that has no issues, but I wanted a second mouse that had a little more options, and of course the sensor. Initial impressions are very positive - the "sniper" button is a little easy to accidentally press, but I believe I can easily adjust. I will be adjusting what that button does because I don't really need a "sniper" button for my gaming.

I think this is a nice upgrade overall. Build quality is nice, the mouse fits well, and it looks good too.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Etizolam*
> 
> I picked up this mouse yesterday at Best Buy, I am coming from a G400 that has no issues, but I wanted a second mouse that had a little more options, and of course the sensor. Initial impressions are very positive - the "sniper" button is a little easy to accidentally press, but I believe I can easily adjust. I will be adjusting what that button does because I don't really need a "sniper" button for my gaming.
> 
> I think this is a nice upgrade overall. Build quality is nice, the mouse fits well, and it looks good too.


Yeah, I think the sniper button is unnecessary, and mostly there for marketing or money making purposes


----------



## nlmiller0015

yea they need to remove the sniper button in my opinion i didnt get to test mines because the sniper button was annoying me i returned it the next day the mouse is comfortable tho


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Dear everyone complaining about the sniper button. Try, oh I dont know, un-binding it in the Logitech Software. If you can do it to the left and right click, you should be able to do it to that too.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

@CPate Why is the mouse not for sale yet in Canada? I WANT THIS!









*EDIT*


----------



## nlmiller0015

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Dear everyone complaining about the sniper button. Try, oh I dont know, un-binding it in the Logitech Software. If you can do it to the left and right click, you should be able to do it to that too.


the thing is each time i pick it up i pressing it on and off it starts to feel werid lol


----------



## majnu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> Dear everyone complaining about the sniper button. Try, oh I dont know, un-binding it in the Logitech Software. If you can do it to the left and right click, you should be able to do it to that too.


You can use LUA script in LGS to have dpi shift with your ADS button, I've been doing it for years. Problem is that when I'm not sniping it changes the dpi too much making recoil control a bit of a nuisance.


----------



## nlmiller0015

doble post


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> The g100 was asia only.
> 
> We finally got the G100s but instead of thinking of it as an equal to the G400 with a different shape they decided to downgrade the sensor.
> 
> The G90 which is supposed to be a newly released rebranded g100s is asia only as well.
> 
> As you can see, from this past behavior I don't think Logitech cares enough to release a high quality smaller mouse and unless enough people "whine" for one we wont see Logitech release it on their own.


no, no the G100 wasnt Asia only, they were available at best buy in combo packs with cheap logitech keyboards for the longest time. you can still buy the G100 with the old graphic at target for $20.

the G90 is going to be Asia only.

and the G100s is high enough quality as is imo, a downgrade from the sensor of a G400? You ever use a G100s and a G400s? Its far more accurate and percise than the G400s I have. Not to mention the G502 sensor is a modified version of the G100s sensor, not the G400/s sensor.


----------



## nlmiller0015

edit


----------



## Diogenes5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Zowie is the only brand that listens to their customers. If they would stop to do that, they would lose all their customers. They didn't come up with 3310 because they were too afraid about the audience's reaction without knowing much about 3310 first. Meaning without 3310 being hyped first.


Look I like Zowie products but they are still not quite perfect. I really wish they would just give up the ghost on their awful Huano switches and use Omrons.

And I don't think they didn't come out with a 3310 mouse out of a deliberate choice to not confuse customers. I think the sensor is new and not a lot of mice have come out yet. Both CM and Zowie should release updates to their hardcore gaming mice with this sensor. It gives people who use the same mouse for years a compelling reason to upgrade. I have an FK 2012. I would LOVE an FK with this sensor. The ability to adjust DPI steps would be great for me as I don't like being forced to use the steps Zowie forces on you. I am an RTS'er and need to balance speed of mouse movement for micro with control of mouse movement for micro. I want to be able to change my dpi mice but laser mice have too much acceleration for me to develop muscle memory.

As for this mouse, people need to stop getting butt hurt. I used logitech for many years including the MX518 which I had for almost 10 years. I am a claw gripper and it was a mistake to use a palm mouse but the product was still good. Most people don't simply know the difference in mice ergonomics to be able to tell what suits them.

Logitech has a lot of retailers they work with that carry their products. They need to create a product that appeals to more of the mass market and most of the mass market is MOBA and MMO players. You can't expect Best Buy to hold in stock stuff like a Zowie FK because the common pc gamer consumer (which is already a very niche market) plays WOW or League--which means they want complicated macro software and ridiculously high, useless DPI's. Logitech made compromises with this product and a lot of hardcore gamers are unhappy. But we're the minority so we just need to deal with it. I just hope Logitech releases a g9x shaped mouse with this sensor; it would be divine.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> Look I like Zowie products but they are still not quite perfect. I really wish they would just give up the ghost on their awful Huano switches and use Omrons.
> 
> And I don't think they didn't come out with a 3310 mouse out of a deliberate choice to not confuse customers. I think the sensor is new and not a lot of mice have come out yet. Both CM and Zowie should release updates to their hardcore gaming mice with this sensor. It gives people who use the same mouse for years a compelling reason to upgrade. I have an FK 2012. *I would LOVE an FK with this sensor. The ability to adjust DPI steps would be great for me as I don't like being forced to use the steps Zowie forces on you*. I am an RTS'er and need to balance speed of mouse movement for micro with control of mouse movement for micro. I want to be able to change my dpi mice but laser mice have too much acceleration for me to develop muscle memory.
> 
> As for this mouse, people need to stop getting butt hurt. I used logitech for many years including the MX518 which I had for almost 10 years. I am a claw gripper and it was a mistake to use a palm mouse but the product was still good. Most people don't simply know the difference in mice ergonomics to be able to tell what suits them.
> 
> Logitech has a lot of retailers they work with that carry their products. They need to create a product that appeals to more of the mass market and most of the mass market is MOBA and MMO players. You can't expect Best Buy to hold in stock stuff like a Zowie FK because the common pc gamer consumer (which is already a very niche market) plays WOW or League--which means they want complicated macro software and ridiculously high, useless DPI's. Logitech made compromises with this product and a lot of hardcore gamers are unhappy. But we're the majority so we just need to deal with it. I just hope Logitech releases a g9x shaped mouse with this sensor; it would be divine.


I'm pretty sure that's not going to change. One of the key priorities of Zowie mice is to keep them software/driver free. That means we will ALWAYS have to deal with the steps that are defined in the mouse itself.

Outside of that, I think that most people here understand that we are not the majority. However, we are the most technically picky and reliable repeat customers on the market. I own more mice right now than 10 people will ever buy in a lifetime, and that number is likely to keep increasing as long as good companies continue to put out solid hardware. That doesn't give us MVP status or anything, but it does give us a voice.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> I'm pretty sure that's not going to change. One of the key priorities of Zowie mice is to keep them software/driver free. That means we will ALWAYS have to deal with the steps that are defined in the mouse itself.
> 
> Outside of that, I think that most people here understand that we are not the majority. However, we are the most technically picky and reliable repeat customers on the market. I own more mice right now than 10 people will ever buy in a lifetime, and that number is likely to keep increasing as long as good companies continue to put out solid hardware. That doesn't give us MVP status or anything, but it does give us a voice.


agreed on both fronts. Not to mention, when a gamer we know is thinking about getting a new mouse, he is probably going to ask the guy he knows who is obsessive about them







I've even had friends refer friends that i don't know, to me.

It is a silly discussion to have though. It doesn't matter why they do or don't make products you like. Its only whether they do thats important.


----------



## Puck

How hard is it to accept that the mouse is not a big heavy clunky mess to some? It is narrower then the G9, slightly longer, and slightly heavier and people are acting like its a max adjusted out RAT 7. Maybe it is because I am not a 100lb 12yo, but I do not notice the extra 20 grams of the G502







. Everyone holds a mouse differently, but even with my large, long hands I do not touch the sniper button. I guess I use a hybrid claw/palm grip since I am so used to mice being too small for me. The DPI up button on the other hand took some getting used to due to the skinny left click. Seriously, people will nitpick everything. 20 grams is like 8 pennies. Not exactly a burden.

I am not a casual RTS/MMO gamer who only plays WoW and LoL with 20 button mice, but a twitch FPS gamer of ~15 years in titles ranging from the original Wolfenstein and UT99 to newer games like UT3 and TF2 and can appreciate a quality mouse - the sensor in this mouse is second to none. Just because I said my spare drawer has a G5 and G9X doesn't mean I am a Logitech fanboy or that's all I have used or experienced - I have used for myself or PCs I have built mice from Razer, Steelseries, and Mad Catz. I just prefer the size and shape of most Logitech mice...and if I was able to maintain top tier Global Leaderboard status for years in FPS's like UT3 then I think they have done alright. There is a difference in just calling yourself a gamer and being a "Mouse Hipster", and actually holding top level rankings in competitive FPS's.

The response of this mouse from people who actually test it are overwhelmingly positive, but it seems the vocal minority will bash anything based on the company, looks, or maybe due to just skipping breakfast and being cranky







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Diogenes5*
> 
> Look I like Zowie products but they are still not quite perfect. I really wish they would just give up the ghost on their awful Huano switches and use Omrons.
> 
> And I don't think they didn't come out with a 3310 mouse out of a deliberate choice to not confuse customers. I think the sensor is new and not a lot of mice have come out yet. Both CM and Zowie should release updates to their hardcore gaming mice with this sensor. It gives people who use the same mouse for years a compelling reason to upgrade. I have an FK 2012. I would LOVE an FK with this sensor. The ability to adjust DPI steps would be great for me as I don't like being forced to use the steps Zowie forces on you. I am an RTS'er and need to balance speed of mouse movement for micro with control of mouse movement for micro. I want to be able to change my dpi mice but laser mice have too much acceleration for me to develop muscle memory.
> 
> As for this mouse, people need to stop getting butt hurt. I used logitech for many years including the MX518 which I had for almost 10 years. I am a claw gripper and it was a mistake to use a palm mouse but the product was still good. Most people don't simply know the difference in mice ergonomics to be able to tell what suits them.
> 
> Logitech has a lot of retailers they work with that carry their products. They need to create a product that appeals to more of the mass market and most of the mass market is MOBA and MMO players. You can't expect Best Buy to hold in stock stuff like a Zowie FK because the common pc gamer consumer (which is already a very niche market) plays WOW or League--which means they want complicated macro software and ridiculously high, useless DPI's. Logitech made compromises with this product and a lot of hardcore gamers are unhappy. But we're the minority so we just need to deal with it. I just hope Logitech releases a g9x shaped mouse with this sensor; it would be divine.


Well said.

The mouse isn't perfect, and I was one of the first people to nitpick and bash its faults right on its release day. To disregard it as a gimmicky POS though is totally harsh and unfair. The sensor is world class. _If the casing and layout doesn't work for your grip or hand size, that is your personal issue and not the fault of the manufacturer._


----------



## Puck

dbl post


----------



## mksteez

how is the LMB & RMB click compare to a DA2013? I really like the feel of the DA2013 but an improvement over it would be even better.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> How hard is it to accept that the mouse is not a big heavy clunky mess to some? It is narrower then the G9, slightly longer, and slightly heavier and people are acting like its a max adjusted out RAT 7. Maybe it is because I am not a 100lb 12yo, but I do not notice the extra 20 grams of the G502
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Everyone holds a mouse differently, but even with my large, long hands I do not touch the sniper button. I guess I use a hybrid claw/palm grip since I am so used to mice being too small for me. The DPI up button on the other hand took some getting used to due to the skinny left click. Seriously, people will nitpick everything. 20 grams is like 8 pennies. Not exactly a burden.
> 
> I am not a casual RTS/MMO gamer who only plays WoW and LoL with 20 button mice, but a twitch FPS gamer of ~15 years in titles ranging from the original Wolfenstein and UT99 to newer games like UT3 and TF2 and can appreciate a quality mouse - the sensor in this mouse is second to none. Just because I said my spare drawer has a G5 and G9X doesn't mean I am a Logitech fanboy or that's all I have used or experienced - I have used for myself or PCs I have built mice from Razer, Steelseries, and Mad Catz. I just prefer the size and shape of most Logitech mice...and if *I was able to maintain top tier Global Leaderboard status for years in FPS's like UT3 then I think they have done alright*. There is a difference in just calling yourself a gamer and being a "Mouse Hipster", and actually holding top level rankings in competitive FPS's.
> 
> The response of this mouse from people who actually test it are overwhelmingly positive, but it seems the vocal minority will bash anything based on the company, looks, or maybe due to just skipping breakfast and being cranky
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Well said.
> 
> The mouse isn't perfect, and I was one of the first people to nitpick and bash its faults right on its release day. To disregard it as a gimmicky POS though is totally harsh and unfair. The sensor is world class. _If the casing and layout doesn't work for your grip or hand size, that is your personal issue and not the fault of the manufacturer._


It's not hard to high rank a game like UT3 when there are only 15 people playing it...









I kid, I kid...

As for the outcry of the OCN crew around this mouse. It's great that they are refreshing the G500 in a manner that kills the biggest complaint of that mouse, but they have several mice that fill that niche. Don't get me wrong, I like the mouse a lot, and will end up with one sooner than later, but most of the people here that are *****ing are mad that Logitech eliminated a mouse from their lineup (G9,G9x) that played to a distinct grip/size preference that no other mouse in their lineup caters to. Most were hoping to see the G900 with an optical sensor, or at least something that would be comparable.

It's really more about disappointment than hatred toward the G502. There are actually a lot of people, myself included, that have been recommending it to those asking for something right up the G502 alley. Even in the same breath as the beloved Mionix 7000 series mice. It will come to be accepted over time, even as a shining beacon in their lineup. It just will never scratch the itch that was left by the removal of the G9 form factor.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mksteez*
> 
> how is the LMB & RMB click compare to a DA2013? I really like the feel of the DA2013 but an improvement over it would be even better.






If you really enjoy the shape of the DA, you will need a lot of adjustment for the 502 and may not like it or be willing to go through the growing pains. If you enjoy the shape of the old school mx518 or are coming from a G9x, you will be absolutely in love with the 502. It is way more comfortable then it looks lol.

The left click on the DA is definitely in a better location then the 502, whose achilles heel IMO is the skinny LMB and the DPI buttons right on the edge. It takes a few rounds to get used to, since you need to click straight down and not on a slant to keep from hitting it. The sensor makes it worth it to me. The button itself is fine - no side to side play (unlike the way too loose scroll wheel), no bouncing, and a nice crisp click without any excessive travel or sloppyness.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> It's not hard to high rank a game like UT3 when there are only 15 people playing it...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I kid, I kid...
> 
> As for the outcry of the OCN crew around this mouse. It's great that they are refreshing the G500 in a manner that kills the biggest complaint of that mouse, but they have several mice that fill that niche. Don't get me wrong, I like the mouse a lot, and will end up with one sooner than later, but most of the people here that are *****ing are mad that Logitech eliminated a mouse from their lineup (G9,G9x) that played to a distinct grip/size preference that no other mouse in their lineup caters to. Most were hoping to see the G900 with an optical sensor, or at least something that would be comparable.
> 
> It's really more about disappointment than hatred toward the G502. There are actually a lot of people, myself included, that have been recommending it to those asking for something right up the G502 alley. Even in the same breath as the beloved Mionix 7000 series mice. It will come to be accepted over time, even as a shining beacon in their lineup. It just will never scratch the itch that was left by the removal of the G9 form factor.


Lmao it had 400k-500k players at the time...NOW its like 15!









I feel you about the gap left by the G9x. I loved the shape which is why I used it, even with its acceleration. It wasn't so bad on native DPI steps, but was a flawed sensor. If they released a G9x successor with the 502 sensor I would buy it on release day. _In fact, take a G9x with the wide load grip, stretch it ~.5-1" for a semi-palm grip, and give it the G502 sensor and I would be in mouse heaven._


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> Not to mention the G502 sensor is a modified version of the G100s sensor, not the G400/s sensor.


the sensor is not related to the G100s sensor.

Soooo many people here are mad at Logitech for not making the mouse you and I want, while from a business standpoint that was probably the wisest decision possible.

Why do you think logitech switched from "cheap looking but reliable" to the flashy gaming look? Because they lost market share to products that are far inferior but offer what the stupid crowd of customers want. Like LEDs with customization options, cool looks etc.

I for once appreciate that while they now appeal to that look they still push performance. Which other manufacturer has pushed mouse technology in recent years? And no, the 3310 is not a big deal, it's very similar to the 3090.


----------



## Derp

Logitech's youtube channel has been very educational regarding the G502. As 



, you can spin the scroll wheel and admire how long it keeps spinning. This can easily be done during death timers to keep your fingers limber when you're having an off night. Also, as demonstrated in a 



 In case anyone breaks into your house you can throw the weights at them! Also viable at LAN.

I apologize for being overly harsh on these gimmicks potentially life saving features.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Logitech's youtube channel has been very educational regarding the G502. As
> 
> 
> 
> , you can spin the scroll wheel and admire how long it keeps spinning. This can easily be done during death timers to keep your fingers limber when you're having an off night. Also, as demonstrated in a
> 
> 
> 
> In case anyone breaks into your house you can throw the weights at them! Also viable at LAN.
> 
> I apologize for being overly harsh on these gimmicks potentially life saving features.












The biggest user of the high mass infinite scroll wheels are the radiologists that work for my hospital. They won't use a mouse without it. Of course that means nothing to gamers, but there is a market for them. The weights have their place. There are a lot of people that want a mouse that's heavy enough that in the event of an emergency they can chuck it over the edge of their boat and tie it down. Then there are the people that like RAT 7/9/mmo mice and can't shake the feeling that they need something a hair heavier.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> the sensor is not related to the G100s sensor.


"The sensor in Proteus Core is an optical system that is illuminated by an IR LED. The base physical architecture, (light source, lens, sensor) is *very similar to the G100s or G602 sensor* - but the sensor itself is totally new. The 12k CPI max is achieved natively and without compromise to tracking fidelity." *-CPate*

i guess i mistook similar for "modified" when i originally read this.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Logitech's youtube channel has been very educational regarding the G502. As
> 
> 
> 
> , you can spin the scroll wheel and admire how long it keeps spinning. This can easily be done during death timers to keep your fingers limber when you're having an off night. Also, as demonstrated in a
> 
> 
> 
> In case anyone breaks into your house you can throw the weights at them! Also viable at LAN.
> 
> I apologize for being overly harsh on these gimmicks potentially life saving features.


The butthurt is strong with this one.

Seriously, the trolling is getting a little out of hand. We get it, you guys are upset they didn't make your mouse. Move on. For all we know they are in development on a g9 replacement. Even if they could tell us (which he already stated he can't), would you really expect a response to petulant childish goading?

Edit: just so we're clear, nobody wants a new g9 more than I. I've made more than one thread about it over the past couple years.


----------



## mksteez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you really enjoy the shape of the DA, you will need a lot of adjustment for the 502 and may not like it or be willing to go through the growing pains. If you enjoy the shape of the old school mx518 or are coming from a G9x, you will be absolutely in love with the 502. It is way more comfortable then it looks lol.
> 
> The left click on the DA is definitely in a better location then the 502, whose achilles heel IMO is the skinny LMB and the DPI buttons right on the edge. It takes a few rounds to get used to, since you need to click straight down and not on a slant to keep from hitting it. The sensor makes it worth it to me. The button itself is fine - no side to side play (unlike the way too loose scroll wheel), no bouncing, and a nice crisp click without any excessive travel or sloppyness.


Thanks! Looks like I will have to go to best buy and try it out. I like my DA2013 but I want to try something different thats a little smaller. I've been reading about the Zowie EC2 Evo, looks like a smaller DA from what I've seen.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> The butthurt is strong with this one.
> 
> Seriously, the trolling is getting a little out of hand. We get it, you guys are upset they didn't make your mouse. Move on. For all we know they are in development on a g9 replacement. Even if they could tell us (which he already stated he can't), would you really expect a response to petulant childish goading?
> 
> Edit: just so we're clear, nobody wants a new g9 more than I. I've made more than one thread about it over the past couple years.


I'm merely sharing my learning experience. Others may have been asking the same questions like why a weight system for a mouse that is already heavier than most others? Why a free spinning scroll wheel on a gaming mouse? I found these answers in these videos made by logitech. I was too narrow minded before so i apologized.

Not trolling at all. I linked to the videos. not like I made anything up... or are you saying Logitech is trolling themselves?


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I'm merely sharing my learning experience. Others may have been asking the same questions like why a weight system for a mouse that is already heavier than most others? Why a free spinning scroll wheel on a gaming mouse? I found these answers in these videos made by logitech. I was too narrow minded before so i apologized.
> 
> Not trolling at all. I linked to the videos. not like I made anything up... or are you saying Logitech is trolling themselves?


Oh derp you are back !
I agree with you, the market for casual gamers that want 90k dpi is filled. Now they need to fill the market of professional gamers that want a light ambidextrous high performance mouse.


----------



## Arc0s

Received the mouse today, played some BF4 and CSGO.

What I like about it:

- The sensor feels amazing, better than all the 3090 mice I've tried, feels even better than the 3310; very very accurate and snappy.
- The shape is not bad at all, played around three and a half hours straight and my hand didn't get tired or cramped at all.
- The buttons feel very nice (Omrons?) easy to click but not too easy that you click by accident (looking at you DA 2013).
- Coating, feet, and rubber sides all feel really nice and the coating doesn't hold finger prints like on the Rival.

What I don't like:

- The weight, it's not the brick I was expecting but it's still too heavy for my taste, feels considerably heavier than the Rival and this can get tiring on long gaming sessions specially if you are a low sens player.
- The "sniper" button, this is the real deal breaker for me. My hand is 19 cm from base to tip of middle finger (Medium/Small?) and use a palm/claw grip. The problem is the sniper button is too far back and my thumb will accidentally click it all the time, I disabled the button to prevent unwanted actions but it still takes away from the ergonomics of the mouse and it becomes really annoying to constantly click the button by accident









I will probably end up returning the mouse, I would have gotten used to the weight since everything else is really nice. But the damned sniper button annoys the crap out of me and I'm pretty sure I will never get used to that. I hope Logitech releases some lighter mice with the same great sensor. I own a couple of mice if any one would like comparison pictures let me know which mouse and I'll post some up.


----------



## fellcbr1

Don't return it, disassemble it for us


----------



## VagueRant

Any current owners of the G502 have any issues with the left scroll button? Mine will not click after a number of times unless it is in freescroll and then it works flawlessly. If I middle click, it will come back but then runs the same routine of becoming unclickable. Just wondered if I am alone with this issue.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I'm merely sharing my learning experience. Others may have been asking the same questions like why a weight system for a mouse that is already heavier than most others? Why a free spinning scroll wheel on a gaming mouse? I found these answers in these videos made by logitech. I was too narrow minded before so i apologized.
> 
> Not trolling at all. I linked to the videos. not like I made anything up... or are you saying Logitech is trolling themselves?


Lol the infinite scroll is an OPTION that can be disabled with one button click. If you don't like it (I HATE it and it was one of the first things I complained about), dont use it. As for the weigh argument again, that is all relative. The mouse does not feel heavy at all if you are using the grips it is made for - palm or palm/claw. IF you use a tiny fingertip grip then of course you would want a smaller, lighter mouse. If 15-20g is a deal breaker for you then maybe you should be doing grip/wrist exercises instead of playing games, since it is NOT a big deal at all. I barely notice the extra weight even compared to a ~15g lighter DA2013...and the 502 sensor completely blows away the DA2013 sensor.

For those reading this thread for information, keep tally that almost everyone who actually tried the mouse has loved it and only had 1 or 2 complaints...yet those who never touched one are bashing it the most








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> Received the mouse today, played some BF4 and CSGO.
> 
> What I like about it:
> 
> - The sensor feels amazing, better than all the 3090 mice I've tried, feels even better than the 3310; very very accurate and snappy.
> - The shape is not bad at all, played around three and a half hours straight and my hand didn't get tired or cramped at all.
> - The buttons feel very nice (Omrons?) easy to click but not too easy that you click by accident (looking at you DA 2013).
> - Coating, feet, and rubber sides all feel really nice and the coating doesn't hold finger prints like on the Rival.
> 
> What I don't like:
> 
> - The weight, it's not the brick I was expecting but it's still too heavy for my taste, feels considerably heavier than the Rival and this can get tiring on long gaming sessions specially if you are a low sens player.
> - The "sniper" button, this is the real deal breaker for me. My hand is 19 cm from base to tip of middle finger (Medium/Small?) and use a palm/claw grip. The problem is the sniper button is too far back and my thumb will accidentally click it all the time, I disabled the button to prevent unwanted actions but it still takes away from the ergonomics of the mouse and it becomes really annoying to constantly click the button by accident
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will probably end up returning the mouse, I would have gotten used to the weight since everything else is really nice. But the damned sniper button annoys the crap out of me and I'm pretty sure I will never get used to that. I hope Logitech releases some lighter mice with the same great sensor. I own a couple of mice if any one would like comparison pictures let me know which mouse and I'll post some up.


Thanks for another actual user review







. I have even larger hands, but hold my mouse lower down with my thumb itself on the side ledge and have never hit the sniper button. I can see though with more of a claw grip it could be an issue. The left click was the issue for me, but I got used to it after a few sessions and my last two gaming sessions I didn't change the DPI by accident even once.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> - The "sniper" button, this is the real deal breaker for me. My hand is 19 cm from base to tip of middle finger (Medium/Small?) and use a palm/claw grip. The problem is the sniper button is too far back and my thumb will accidentally click it all the time, I disabled the button to prevent unwanted actions but it still takes away from the ergonomics of the mouse and it becomes really annoying to constantly click the button by accident
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


i disliked this as well and made a note of it in my short review (somewhere now buried in this thread)
as soon as i installed LGS the first thing i did was disable the sniper button then got some tape and taped it down. now i can hold the mouse in my more natural comfortable grip without worrying about misclicking the sniper button.

its such a bad and unnecessary feature imo or at least in this case, the positioning of it is bad if you have a hand 17.5cm+

heres some enotus


----------



## Amperial

Quote:


> Side note - Francois Morier, the lead Logitech engineer on the project to design the sensor for Proteus Core, is at the show with me. If any of you will be there feel free to stop by and we'll be happy to talk to you about it.


He's the King.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> Received the mouse today, played some BF4 and CSGO.
> 
> What I like about it:
> 
> - The sensor feels amazing, better than all the 3090 mice I've tried, feels even better than the 3310; very very accurate and snappy.
> - The shape is not bad at all, played around three and a half hours straight and my hand didn't get tired or cramped at all.
> - The buttons feel very nice (Omrons?) easy to click but not too easy that you click by accident (looking at you DA 2013).
> - Coating, feet, and rubber sides all feel really nice and the coating doesn't hold finger prints like on the Rival.
> 
> What I don't like:
> 
> - The weight, it's not the brick I was expecting but it's still too heavy for my taste, feels considerably heavier than the Rival and this can get tiring on long gaming sessions specially if you are a low sens player.
> - The "sniper" button, this is the real deal breaker for me. My hand is 19 cm from base to tip of middle finger (Medium/Small?) and use a palm/claw grip. The problem is the sniper button is too far back and my thumb will accidentally click it all the time, I disabled the button to prevent unwanted actions but it still takes away from the ergonomics of the mouse and it becomes really annoying to constantly click the button by accident
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will probably end up returning the mouse, I would have gotten used to the weight since everything else is really nice. But the damned sniper button annoys the crap out of me and I'm pretty sure I will never get used to that. I hope Logitech releases some lighter mice with the same great sensor. I own a couple of mice if any one would like comparison pictures let me know which mouse and I'll post some up.


That's why it would be useless for me.
For a FPS mouse it just has too overloaded buttons, heavy (prolly could even loose weight if they remove unnecessary stuff), shape worse compared to the Rival. Ugly &.. ugly.

Thanks for the cover up.

You're better off with a better shaped 3310 than with this brick.


----------



## CtrlAltel1te

I have to agree with Arc0s and Imperial.
But aswell with Ino, product design decisions are obvious for the general market, people here sum it all up.

Only thing stil lacking are pictures of the internals.

I am curious if logitech has got another version of the pixart/avago 3310.
Like they had the avago 3055 or the A3080E/S3095.

If so curious what Razer will be releasing this year.
Seeing they aswell have had custom optical led sensors.
Apart from global sold avago 3050, 3090, they had a custom variation of it with the S3988, S3888, S3668 etc.

So for upcoming products, I am looking forward to see what Razer will come up with.
And seeing logitech released there g502 now I am curious when roccat will release there military kone pure optical with the avago 3310.

Then for the rest of the brands, curious what minor brands like zowie, Ozone, thermaltake etc. will do with the avago 3310 so this year could still be promosing.
Mabay youre shape is still not here but other brands have still not released newer models with a 3310.


----------



## Puck

I think the sniper button issue is more to do with finger length then hand size. My thumb hasn't ever hit the sniper button by accident, how I hold the mouse my thumbnail isn't past the blue portion of the thumb ledge so it never will. If you have shorter fingers or are trying to hold it with your fingertips on the very front edge of the mouse, then your thumb will end up on the sniper button. I would still rather not have the button there at all, but it is not an issue for me. Gamecrate had it two weeks early and gave it a very favorable, if not very technical, review as well http://gamecrate.newegg.com/logitech-g502-proteus-core-review/.

I think its a very good sign when the only complaints about a mouse, especially on OCN, are about opinions like shape and weight.

When hyperglides release feet for it I can get some internal shots. Right now I am worried if I pull the feet they wont stick back on.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> I think the sniper button issue is more to do with finger length then hand size. My thumb hasn't ever hit the sniper button by accident, how I hold the mouse my thumbnail isn't past the blue portion of the thumb ledge so it never will. If you have shorter fingers or are trying to hold it with your fingertips on the very front edge of the mouse, then your thumb will end up on the sniper button. I would still rather not have the button there at all, but it is not an issue for me. Gamecrate had it two weeks early and gave it a very favorable, if not very technical, review as well http://gamecrate.newegg.com/logitech-g502-proteus-core-review/.
> 
> I think its a very good sign when the only complaints about a mouse, especially on OCN, are about opinions like shape and weight.
> 
> When hyperglides release feet for it I can get some internal shots. Right now I am worried if I pull the feet they wont stick back on.


I read the Gamecrate review too. I think this mouse is mostly suited palm grippers because of the sniper button. If you try to fingertip, it would probably be to easy to hit it on accident. I haven't got the chance to really try mine out yet as I'm on vacationin the US, but the shape seemed really good for my palm grip as far as I could tell, and the mouse wasn't so heavy either. I can't be sure about the sniper button placement before I get home though.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Well I think I will get this. Been using Logitech MX500 shape since MX500. With a brief use of the MX300 shape. So will try this out. The edge lip has always been a slight issiue for me. So lets see if its changed here


----------



## FreeElectron

*
Puck
Atavax
Anyone else
*

Please do a double cam video testing that tests the sensor.
I want to know if i want to consider this over the AVIOR 7000.
TBH
It seems like a mouse with big marketing and that's it.


----------



## vlenbo

So this logitech mouse has a *BADASS* sensor? Because I'm looking for the most accurate and precise performing mouse, and the ergonomics of this mouse doesn't dissuade me from purchasing it. The price, however, does.


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> *
> Puck
> Atavax
> Anyone else
> *
> 
> Please do a double cam video testing that tests the sensor.
> I want to know if i want to consider this over the AVIOR 7000.
> TBH
> It seems like a mouse with big marketing and that's it.


I have an Avior 7000 and the G502, I use the G502 over the Avior 7000, due to shape and sensor reasons.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vlenbo*
> 
> So this logitech mouse has a *BADASS* sensor? Because I'm looking for the most accurate and precise performing mouse, and the ergonomics of this mouse doesn't dissuade me from purchasing it. The price, however, does.


From what Logitech has claimed, yes it's the sensor of dreams. There is literally nothing to ever complain about even from the most picky person. And with 12k CPI I think Pixart or whoever produces the sensor can park the bus and delay sensor development for a decade or so without anyone asking for more.

That is if the claims are true, but those claims are so bold that they probably are true. And honestly, if those claims are true, I would happily pay the $80 for the sensor in a no BS shell.

One person has claimed to have accel with it though.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> One person has claimed to have accel with it though.


through a number of tests repeated many times with different mouspads and with another mouse known to have a reputable sensor and the other mouse passed the tests while the g502 failed. It isn't definitive, we will have to wait until some more reputable posters that have more experience testing potential mice get their hands on it. A couple people saying they don't notice any problems isn't very convincing either, there are plenty of people that say they don't notice any smoothing on the da 2013 either for example.

Regardless even if the sensor turns out to be everything they claimed, it is a very heavy mouse with too many buttons and a poor scroll wheel, and most people would probably be better off waiting for a less gimmicky version with the same sensor or a comparable sensor to be released. It might be ideal that they released this version first so that the new sensor can be gauged before a legitimate mouse with it is released.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> I have an Avior 7000 and the G502, I use the G502 over the Avior 7000, due to shape and sensor reasons.


please do a video review of it then.
Test the sensor's performance and post it in here.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> through a number of tests repeated many times with different mouspads and with another mouse known to have a reputable sensor and the other mouse passed the tests while the g502 failed. It isn't definitive, we will have to wait until some more reputable posters that have more experience testing potential mice get their hands on it. A couple people saying they don't notice any problems isn't very convincing either, there are plenty of people that say they don't notice any smoothing on the da 2013 either for example.
> 
> Regardless even if the sensor turns out to be everything they claimed, it is a very heavy mouse with too many buttons and a poor scroll wheel, and most people would probably be better off waiting for a less gimmicky version with the same sensor or a comparable sensor to be released. It might be ideal that they released this version first so that the new sensor can be gauged before a legitimate mouse with it is released.


I know the feeling. If you go back a few years when the G500 and Xai were new mice people kept posting here claiming how these new laser mice had no accel problems and tracked to insane speeds on cloth pads. Both were complete BS but I found myself repeating this once a week, I was definitely outnumbered by those claiming otherwise.

I seriously hope you got a defective mouse because unlike others here I don't think your testing methods were inaccurate enough to ignore the poor results.


----------



## 428cobra

just got home with mine. the sniper button is annoying feels good so far tracks good.never had a mouse where you tune it to the surface of a mouse pad lol


----------



## ItsJulian

was that Sneaky (ADC) in Cloud9 with the mouse? normally it would be Balls or him or Lemonnation being at the edge of the team table. Any idea who it is ?


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I seriously hope you got a defective mouse because unlike others here I don't think your testing methods were inaccurate enough to ignore the poor results.


yeah, thats going to be my excuse if the more reputable guys have opposing findings, my mouse must be faulty







But yeah, so many times doing it as straight as possible. Also the mouse is advertised as no acceleration, its not like i was going into the test expecting it to have acceleration, i was biased towards it not having acceleration. Its like, ok, i might as well test for acceleration before telling the guy there isn't acceleration.... then the test showed acceleration and every other time i got the same result. Also If it was purely inability to keep my wrist straight, you would expect some of the tests to indicate negative acceleration, which they don't and through a large number of tests, it was actually fairly consistent. Not to mention having the expected results using the same method with a better known mouse.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> yeah, thats going to be my excuse if the more reputable guys have opposing findings, my mouse must be faulty
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But yeah, so many times doing it as straight as possible. Also the mouse is advertised as no acceleration, its not like i was going into the test expecting it to have acceleration, i was biased towards it not having acceleration. Its like, ok, i might as well test for acceleration before telling the guy there isn't acceleration.... then the test showed acceleration and every other time i got the same result. Also If it was purely inability to keep my wrist straight, you would expect some of the tests to indicate negative acceleration, which they don't and through a large number of tests, it was actually fairly consistent. Not to mention having the expected results using the same method with a better known mouse.


You know, even if it's something weird going on with twisting the mouse while moving it, or when moving it in some sort of large circle instead of straight, that should still be seen as some sort of bug. If you didn't get a mouse with somewhat broken sensor, there might be some problem with the math of how it combines x and y coordinates like in that lucky issue of the original Quake that increased speed from the curves you did when bunny hopping.


----------



## Puck

I braced the mouse between the edge of my case and a straight edge on the other side to make sure its the same distance every time and did 8-9 back and forth shots at varying speeds that ended almost exactly on the same X axis. Some slightly above/below due to rotation, but no acceleration







.

I'm thinking Atavax has to have gotten a defective mouse. Everyone who tries it, even if they hate the shape, weight, or company has agreed that the sensor is amazing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> You know, even if it's something weird going on with twisting the mouse while moving it, or when moving it in some sort of large circle instead of straight, that should still be seen as some sort of bug. If you didn't get a mouse with somewhat broken sensor, there might be some problem with the math of how it combines x and y coordinates like in that lucky issue of the original Quake that increased speed from the curves you did when bunny hopping.


Strafe jumping ftw







.


----------



## FreeElectron

I like how asking for a video as an "evidence" keeps getting ignored.
While the only thing we have close to an evidence is a couple of pictures









Something like this


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I like how asking for a video as an "evidence" keeps getting ignored.
> While the only thing we have close to an evidence is a couple of pictures


Just recorded a clip. Let me crop it and upload.

Used the full length of a 12.5" wide mousepad(multiple 360s), 1800DPI, 1000Hz, Source engine w/ Raw mouse input, 6/11 sens windows, yada yada yada.

Eerily accurate sensor!


----------



## Mastoras78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I like how asking for a video as an "evidence" keeps getting ignored.
> While the only thing we have close to an evidence is a couple of pictures


Lol. Yes sir, apologies from everyone who doesn't follow your demand.

p.s. There is plenty of optical sensors without any acceleration. Its not something that special


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Just recorded a clip. Let me crop it and upload.
> 
> Used the full length of a 12.5" wide mousepad(multiple 360s), 1800DPI, 1000Hz, Source engine w/ Raw mouse input, 6/11 sens windows, yada yada yada.
> 
> Eerily accurate sensor!


Thank you
Greatly appreciated









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mastoras78*
> 
> Lol. Yes sir, apologies from everyone who doesn't follow your demand.
> 
> p.s. There is plenty of optical sensors without any acceleration. Its not something that special


No one is forced to.
But it is annoying to only see people talking.......
Also We know nothing about this "Delta Zero" sensor of 12000 CPI so i also apologize for being skeptical about a mouse with unknown sensor!


----------



## Puck

Few mistakes on the vertical axis since I had nothing to keep me on a perpendicular line so I mess up once or twice and shoot high or low (we are talking a free swipe across ~13in back and forth at a pretty high speed), but with the last 2-3 shots in a row you can still see it is dead on with no acceleration. I can do a much better video later, but honestly its not necessary.


----------



## Puck

It is a super short video so it should be live soon.

I can do another test at max 12,000 DPI if anyone wants...not like anyone will be using that res until we can power eyefinity 4k displays







. I will do a proper review when I have time...that was my first video uploaded to that account that was made for my clanmates and I to post reviews and gameplay, Oculus Rift impressions, etc.


----------



## Hola Como Estas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> I have an Avior 7000 and the G502, I use the G502 over the Avior 7000, due to shape and sensor reasons.


You can tell us those reasons? and because you do not like the shape of avior.


----------



## blackmesatech

Inside the Proteus Core G502






More images of the inside and parts


http://imgur.com/a

.

I found the mousewheel itself to be quite interesting it has a very unique feel to it. Because it's made of metal it has a weighted feel to it and while it does have some slight play left and right as some posted on here already it is not as bad or as distracting as the one on the Alcor. However because it is made of metal that is significant weight added to a small part of a mouse that is already quite heavy.

With regards to the sensor the only negative thing I have found _so far_ is when you tune it to a surface it lowers the LOD. Now this might be good for some but I'd prefer having the option to raise or lower the LOD distance be separate. Setting it to Factory Default in surface tuning gave me the highest LOD on a Goliath Alpha Speed mousepad.

Honestly I'm a little blown away by the design and setup inside the mouse. Comparing it to other manufacturers I'd say Logitech put some serious effort into this mouse so I'm really looking forward to seeing this sensor and even the software used on other Logitech shells.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Few mistakes on the vertical axis since I had nothing to keep me on a perpendicular line so I mess up once or twice and shoot high or low (we are talking a free swipe across ~13in back and forth at a pretty high speed), but with the last 2-3 shots in a row you can still see it is dead on with no acceleration. I can do a much better video later, but honestly its not necessary.


Thanks for the video.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackmesatech*
> 
> Inside the Proteus Core G502
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More images of the inside and parts
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a
> 
> .
> 
> I found the mousewheel itself to be quite interesting it has a very unique feel to it. Because it's made of metal it has a weighted feel to it and while it does have some slight play left and right as some posted on here already it is not as bad or as distracting as the one on the Alcor. However because it is made of metal that is significant weight added to a small part of a mouse that is already quite heavy.
> 
> With regards to the sensor the only negative thing I have found _so far_ is when you tune it to a surface it lowers the LOD. Now this might be good for some but I'd prefer having the option to raise or lower the LOD distance be separate. Setting it to Factory Default in surface tuning gave me the highest LOD on a Goliath Alpha Speed mousepad.
> 
> Honestly I'm a little blown away by the design and setup inside the mouse. Comparing it to other manufacturers I'd say Logitech put some serious effort into this mouse so I'm really looking forward to seeing this sensor and even the software used on other Logitech shells.



New sensor's name seems like
PMW33660M-VWQU


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I like how asking for a video as an "evidence" keeps getting ignored.
> While the only thing we have close to an evidence is a couple of pictures
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Something like this


i thought everyone wanting a video wanted simultaneous footage of mouse and screen.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i thought everyone wanting a video wanted simultaneous footage of mouse and screen.


I really would like such a video.
But whatever offered is appreciated


----------



## Conundrumwudy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Thanks for the video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New sensor's name seems like
> PMW33660M-VWQU


It seems like PMW3366DM?.


----------



## zerouse7en

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Thanks for the video.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New sensor's name seems like
> PMW33660M-VWQU


I read it as "PMW 3306DW - VWQU"


----------



## thebski

I just have to ask, what is the big deal with the free scroll wheel? As in, why not have it? It is honestly nearly impossible for me to scroll web pages without it after having used my G9x for so long. You obviously don't need it in game, but I hate the notched scroll on any application other than in game.

Pretty interested in this G502 mouse. I built a second computer last year and had planned on retiring my G9x to it while getting a new mouse for what was going to become my strict gamer. After researching, the Corsair M45 was the mouse I settled on. I really like it, but I just couldn't give up my G9x on the gamer. Still looking for a worthy successor (read: re-release the G9x with this new sensor).


----------



## Conundrumwudy

You're right. I just download the origin picture and confirm I was wrong..


----------



## deepor

I read it just like FreeElectron does, "PMW33660M-VWQU".


----------



## Puck

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackmesatech*
> 
> Inside the Proteus Core G502
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More images of the inside and parts
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a
> 
> .
> 
> I found the mousewheel itself to be quite interesting it has a very unique feel to it. Because it's made of metal it has a weighted feel to it and while it does have some slight play left and right as some posted on here already it is not as bad or as distracting as the one on the Alcor. However because it is made of metal that is significant weight added to a small part of a mouse that is already quite heavy.
> 
> With regards to the sensor the only negative thing I have found _so far_ is when you tune it to a surface it lowers the LOD. Now this might be good for some but I'd prefer having the option to raise or lower the LOD distance be separate. Setting it to Factory Default in surface tuning gave me the highest LOD on a Goliath Alpha Speed mousepad.
> 
> Honestly I'm a little blown away by the design and setup inside the mouse. Comparing it to other manufacturers I'd say Logitech put some serious effort into this mouse so I'm really looking forward to seeing this sensor and even the software used on other Logitech shells.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackmesatech*
> 
> Inside the Proteus Core G502
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More images of the inside and parts
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a
> 
> .
> 
> I found the mousewheel itself to be quite interesting it has a very unique feel to it. Because it's made of metal it has a weighted feel to it and while it does have some slight play left and right as some posted on here already it is not as bad or as distracting as the one on the Alcor. However because it is made of metal that is significant weight added to a small part of a mouse that is already quite heavy.
> 
> With regards to the sensor the only negative thing I have found _so far_ is when you tune it to a surface it lowers the LOD. Now this might be good for some but I'd prefer having the option to raise or lower the LOD distance be separate. Setting it to Factory Default in surface tuning gave me the highest LOD on a Goliath Alpha Speed mousepad.
> 
> Honestly I'm a little blown away by the design and setup inside the mouse. Comparing it to other manufacturers I'd say Logitech put some serious effort into this mouse so I'm really looking forward to seeing this sensor and even the software used on other Logitech shells.






Thanks for digging into your 502 and sharing with us!


----------



## FreeElectron

Seems like a D
PMW3366DM-VWQU
Any way it is a new sensor and probably a pixart's.


----------



## Atavax

so simply playing without the weight door reduces the weight by 7 grams!


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Few mistakes on the vertical axis since I had nothing to keep me on a perpendicular line so I mess up once or twice and shoot high or low (we are talking a free swipe across ~13in back and forth at a pretty high speed), but with the last 2-3 shots in a row you can still see it is dead on with no acceleration. I can do a much better video later, but honestly its not necessary.


ok, you're definitely moving your mouse way way way slower then me especially considering that it looks like you're using a way higher sensitivity. and it doesn't even look like the velocity you're moving in different directions is that different.

this is a quick video for what i do


----------



## Mastoras78

Just found these from an amazon.com reviewer. His nick is GOD JOEY









Check the youtube link for an extra video plus some graphs


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I just have to ask, what is the big deal with the free scroll wheel? As in, why not have it? It is honestly nearly impossible for me to scroll web pages without it after having used my G9x for so long. You obviously don't need it in game, but I hate the notched scroll on any application other than in game.


Like you said, you don't need it for anything in game. A lot of people just want the absolute best gaming performance out of their gaming mouse and any extra weight from the mechanism isn't worth the out of game benefits.


----------



## blackmesatech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> so simply playing without the weight door reduces the weight by 7 grams!


Yes however I found it isn't a good idea to play without it if you are an "arm player" meaning you use your arm to move the mouse because it will catch the bottom left side with the mousepad when making left swipes.

For wrist players it shouldn't be a major issue playing without the weight door but fair warning if you play on a metal surface there is a chance you'll run into issues with the magnet mounted on the bottom inside of the mouse used to secure the weight door.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> ok, you're definitely moving your mouse way way way slower then me especially considering that it looks like you're using a way higher sensitivity. and it doesn't even look like the velocity you're moving in different directions is that different.
> 
> this is a quick video for what i do


You're goddam fast MODA****A lol







.
The way to totally confirm this would be if you do the same video with another sensor that passess the test... like a 3310?
Because that video clearly shows positive acceleration and if other mice get to the initial point we can stop discussing it and btw... Puck is not moving it nearly as fast as you.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> You're goddam fast MODA****A lol
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> The way to totally confirm this would be if you do the same video with another sensor that passess the test... like a 3310?
> Because that video clearly shows positive acceleration and if other mice get to the initial point we can stop discussing it and btw... Puck is not moving it nearly as fast as you.


He already tried it with another mouse, something from Zowie, and that one has no acceleration for him in his tests.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> He already tried it with another mouse, something from Zowie, and that one has no acceleration for him in his tests.


I know but we need the 2 videos to clarify so everybody sees that he's not failing the test... it's the sensor and if you ask me that acceleration % is much like to the a9500 even though it's not that sensor.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> ok, you're definitely moving your mouse way way way slower then me especially considering that it looks like you're using a way higher sensitivity. and it doesn't even look like the velocity you're moving in different directions is that different.
> 
> this is a quick video for what i do


That's a little concerning. Obviously it wasn't a 100% perfect straight line, but I think it was close enough that there shouldn't be such a discrepancy in the marks. When raw input is enabled, are there any other factors besides the sensor that can influence acceleration like that? Can you move your mouse fast enough without hitting the edge of the screen to produce accel in the Mouse Movement Recorder program?


----------



## dpmcalli

I have a question about the infinite scroll. The only mouse I used with infinite scroll was the wireless permormance mouse mx.

http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/product/performance-mouse-mx

I really didnt like the infinite scroll feature and vowed never to buy a mouse even if it can be disabled because, even with it disabled, the middle click on that mouse was so terrible. So my question is, what is the middle click like on this mouse? Is it loose and sloppy like it was on this mouse? Or does it feel like the middle click on any normal scrollwhell?


----------



## Ino.

I just did a full review of it, no accel for me. Review is here: Logitech G502 Gaming Mouse Review - by Ino


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I just did a full review of it, no accel for me. Review is here: Logitech G502 Gaming Mouse Review - by Ino


Are you in Germany? Where did you buy it?


----------



## blueslobster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zerouse7en*
> 
> I read it as "PMW 3306DW - VWQU"


PMW3366DM-VWQU would be analogue to PMW3310DH-AWQT (Pixart 3310). So this new sensor can be called Pixart 3366.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blueslobster*
> 
> PMW3366DM-VWQU would be analogue to PMW3310DH-AWQT (Pixart 3310). So this new sensor can be called Pixart 3366.


Yeah it looked like a 0 to me but the D would make more sense with their naming structure.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Just a thought. If you are doing accel test by actually moving the mouse with your arm in one direction, and then moving it back to the other direction, most ikely you will neve hit the exact same spot. Since your hand does different arcs depending on direction and actual distance traveled by the sensor is different.

Only way to do a scientific accel test is to mount the mouse to a linear drive, get it up to constant speed and move the mouse while it is firmly held in place.

All test done by moving the mouse by a human are not precise. And depend a huge amount based on shape, sensor position, tilting and pivoting of the mouse. So yeah.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Few mistakes on the vertical axis since I had nothing to keep me on a perpendicular line so I mess up once or twice and shoot high or low (we are talking a free swipe across ~13in back and forth at a pretty high speed), but with the last 2-3 shots in a row you can still see it is dead on with no acceleration. I can do a much better video later, but honestly its not necessary.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackmesatech*
> 
> Inside the Proteus Core G502
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More images of the inside and parts
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/a
> 
> .
> 
> I found the mousewheel itself to be quite interesting it has a very unique feel to it. Because it's made of metal it has a weighted feel to it and while it does have some slight play left and right as some posted on here already it is not as bad or as distracting as the one on the Alcor. However because it is made of metal that is significant weight added to a small part of a mouse that is already quite heavy.
> 
> With regards to the sensor the only negative thing I have found _so far_ is when you tune it to a surface it lowers the LOD. Now this might be good for some but I'd prefer having the option to raise or lower the LOD distance be separate. Setting it to Factory Default in surface tuning gave me the highest LOD on a Goliath Alpha Speed mousepad.
> 
> Honestly I'm a little blown away by the design and setup inside the mouse. Comparing it to other manufacturers I'd say Logitech put some serious effort into this mouse so I'm really looking forward to seeing this sensor and even the software used on other Logitech shells.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> ok, you're definitely moving your mouse way way way slower then me especially considering that it looks like you're using a way higher sensitivity. and it doesn't even look like the velocity you're moving in different directions is that different.
> 
> this is a quick video for what i do


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I just did a full review of it, no accel for me. Review is here: Logitech G502 Gaming Mouse Review - by Ino


This is basically everything till now.
Atavax shows negative acceleration at very high speed and acceleration movement , while puck show no acceleration (probably) for normally average-high speeds
It is important to note that Pucks movements seem to be more into constant high speed instead of high acceleration.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Just a thought. If you are doing accel test by actually moving the mouse with your arm in one direction, and then moving it back to the other direction, most ikely you will neve hit the exact same spot. Since your hand does different arcs depending on direction and actual distance traveled by the sensor is different.
> 
> Only way to do a scientific accel test is to mount the mouse to a linear drive, get it up to constant speed and move the mouse while it is firmly held in place.
> 
> All test done by moving the mouse by a human are not precise. And depend a huge amount based on shape, sensor position, tilting and pivoting of the mouse. So yeah.


He mentioned that this test was passed by other mice, so it is highly probable that the problem is not the test methodology.
I think we need to do more tests on very high snap speeds/high acceleration.
To see if the mouse have a problem at very high speeds/acceleration or not.
Atavax test was the one with most speed/acceleration that is why it showed negative acceleration.


----------



## Ino.

MIght as well link my video here too:




I reach a speed of >4 m/s in this video, and as far as I can tell there is no accel. Also I didn't even try to move perfectly along the x-axis but just did a normal swipe. This is my result.
Settings: 800 dpi, 1000 Hz, sensitivity 0.87 (~60cm/360°), m_rawinput 1


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> Like you said, you don't need it for anything in game. A lot of people just want the absolute best gaming performance out of their gaming mouse and any extra weight from the mechanism isn't worth the out of game benefits.


I guess I just still don't associate the addition of a freewheel feature with worse in game performance. How much additional weight are we talking?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> I guess I just still don't associate the addition of a freewheel feature with worse in game performance. How much additional weight are we talking?


16 g is the weight of the wheel. Don't know how much regular wheels weigh exactly, but a lot less.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> MIght as well link my video here too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I reach a speed of >4 m/s in this video, and as far as I can tell there is no accel. Also I didn't even try to move perfectly along the x-axis but just did a normal swipe. This is my result.
> Settings: 800 dpi, 1000 Hz, sensitivity 0.87 (~60cm/360°), m_rawinput 1


Your test method and result is similar to puck's
Can you try to mimic Atavax movement speed&acceleration and show us the result?
Remember it is not an acceleration test if there is no acceleration (There has to be a noticeable high difference in acceleration not speed).


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Your test method and result is similar to puck's
> Can you try to mimic Atavax movement speed&acceleration and show us the result?
> Remember it is not an acceleration test if there is no acceleration (There has to be a noticeable high difference in acceleration not speed).


Uhm what? If the sensor has no accel then how am I supposed to produce it? My method is the same as Atavax, he just has a higher sens than I do.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> 16 g is the weight of the wheel. Don't know how much regular wheels weigh exactly, but a lot less.


Seems to me that's due to its all metal construction, though, as opposed to two mode scroll vs one mode scroll. Could be wrong.


----------



## AngryGoldfish

Does anyone know when these will be available in the UK/EU? I have to replace my mouse and I don't know if I can wait until this is available over here.


----------



## Puck

I can pretty much guarantee that the mouse is not moving the same distance with a twitch like that if you are not bracing it against something as a limiter. You cant just use your eyeballs or guestimate. Also, keep in mind I am at 2560x1440, so I am moving the mouse faster then you think. I am 100% sure that there is no acceleration on the 502, unless Atavax somehow got a defective one. I guess I can take ANOTHER video at whatever crazy low 400-800 DPI you guys want. Would be late tonight though, will be busy during the day.

Ino used 800 and broke 4m/s so I'm not sure what else needs to be done???


----------



## thebski

Do you guys know if I would be able to bind the left and right tilt of the scroll wheel to keys? Specifically, I'd like to bind them to mini map zoom level and toggle large map (n and m) for BF4.

The sniper button can also be bound to something else, correct? I am one side button short on my G9x, so that would be pretty cool if you can.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> Do you guys know if I would be able to bind the left and right tilt of the scroll wheel to keys? Specifically, I'd like to bind them to mini map zoom level and toggle large map (n and m) for BF4.
> 
> The sniper button can also be bound to something else, correct? I am one side button short on my G9x, so that would be pretty cool if you can.


That's no problem. Didn't try specifically, but every button seems to be mappable like you want. It worked that way even on the older logitech mice.


----------



## Atavax

i was using 400 dpi 1000hz
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> I can pretty much guarantee that the mouse is not moving the same distance with a twitch like that if you are not bracing it against something as a limiter. You cant just use your eyeballs or guestimate. Also, keep in mind I am at 2560x1440, so I am moving the mouse faster then you think. I am 100% sure that there is no acceleration on the 502, unless Atavax somehow got a defective one. I guess I can take ANOTHER video at whatever crazy low 400-800 DPI you guys want. Would be late tonight though, will be busy during the day.
> 
> Ino used 800 and broke 4m/s so I'm not sure what else needs to be done???


The start and end was at the same spot, so the only way it didn't move the exact same distance is if i rotated my wrist, but judging our two videos it looked like i had way more control of my mouse then you did with all your vertical jumping. Also, in a fps, you move by degrees and resolution has no effect on the distance you move to do a 360.

but yeah, ino has been around and he didn't get it seems like my mouse is more anomaly then anything else. So i apologize to Chris for assuming the worst when i tested acceleration with the mouse.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Uhm what? If the sensor has no accel then how am I supposed to produce it? My method is the same as Atavax, he just has a higher sens than I do.


The way i understand accel issue is like this.

"No accel" mouse
Will ignore accelerated speed of movement and only factor the speed which will result in constant distance.
Ex: mouse movement from a to b will always travel the same distance on screen (accel is not factored)

"accel" mouse
Will be affected by the accelerated movement and will factor acceleration into distance changing original distance.
Ex: mouse movement from a to b will result in different distance on the screen based on the movement acceleration
So basically you have to move your mouse in accelerated speed to check if this issue is there or not.
Assuming that i am right. It troubles me that you made a review without knowing this..


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> The way i understand accel issue is like this.
> 
> "No accel" mouse
> Will ignore accelerated speed of movement and only factor the speed which will result in constant distance.
> Ex: mouse movement from a to b will always travel the same distance on screen (accel is not factored)
> 
> "accel" mouse
> Will be affected by the accelerated movement and will factor acceleration into distance changing original distance.
> Ex: mouse movement from a to b will result in different distance on the screen based on the movement acceleration
> So basically you have to move your mouse in accelerated speed to check if this issue is there or not.
> Assuming that i am right. It troubles me that you made a review without knowing this..


That's what I did, I moved the mouse at high speed in one direction and slowly back. If acceleration was in place the fast movement would have caused a larger distance as the slow movement. It didn't, so there was no accel on the G502 in my test.


----------



## Puck

My vertical jumping was because it was 1800DPI and I was not being careful testing since it was late and I was just making a point.

At low DPI that slight movement would not be nearly as dramatic as my wild 13" back and forth swings







.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> My vertical jumping was because it was 1800DPI and I was not being careful testing since it was late and I was just making a point.
> 
> At low DPI that slight movement would not be nearly as dramatic as my wild 13" back and forth swings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


so if you were doing wild swings late at night and still consistently getting no acceleration then its even harder to use the inaccuracy of my careful swings to explain my results.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> "No accel" mouse
> Will ignore accelerated speed of movement and only factor the speed which will result in constant distance.
> Ex: mouse movement from a to b will always travel the same distance on screen (accel is not factored)
> 
> "accel" mouse
> Will be affected by the accelerated movement and will factor acceleration into distance changing original distance.
> Ex: mouse movement from a to b will result in different distance on the screen based on the movement acceleration
> So basically you have to move your mouse in *accelerated speed* to check if this issue is there or not.
> Assuming that i am right. It troubles me that you made a review without knowing this..


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> That's what I did, I moved the mouse at *high speed* in one direction and slowly back. If acceleration was in place the fast movement would have caused a larger distance as the slow movement. It didn't, so there was no accel on the G502 in my test.


Ok
Assuming that you did not understand my point.

Speed : Is change of distance over time.
Ex (distance : time) : (2 : 1) then (4 : 2) then (6 : 3) then (8 : 4) then (10 : 5) then (12 : 6) Is a constant speed of 2.
Acceleration : Is change of speed over time.
Ex (distance : time,speed) : (2 : 1,2) then (8 : 2,4) then (18 : 3,6) then (32 : 4,8) then (50 : 5,10) then (72 : 6,12) is accelerated speed of 2

All of the previously done tests had a certain level of acceleration (because you always have to initiate movement from 0) yet it seems that only atavax where able to reach higher levels of acceleration which might have affected the distance.
Also Atavax's test seemed to be horizontally stable (probably no rotation around z).

So it is either that atavax's mouse is buggy (unusual to have mouse sensor acceleration as a bug)
Or that the new "Delta Zero" sensor (PMW3366DM) has acceleration effect at very high acceleration (higher probability)
The best way to find out is to try and mimic atavax's test and see the result.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> so if you were doing wild swings late at night and still consistently getting no acceleration then its even harder to use the inaccuracy of my careful swings to explain my results.


Indeed. I had two drinks as well lol.

I will test again with 400 DPI and mimicing your test as best I can to try to reproduce your results.


----------



## Amperial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Ok
> Assuming that you did not understand my point.
> 
> Speed : Is change of distance over time.
> Ex (distance : time) : (2 : 1) then (4 : 2) then (6 : 3) then (8 : 4) then (10 : 5) then (12 : 6) Is a constant speed of 2.
> Acceleration : Is change of speed over time.
> Ex (distance : time,speed) : (2 : 1,2) then (8 : 2,4) then (18 : 3,6) then (32 : 4,8) then (50 : 5,10) then (72 : 6,12) is accelerated speed of 2
> 
> All of the previously done tests had a certain level of acceleration (because you always have to initiate movement from 0) yet it seems that only atavax where able to reach higher levels of acceleration which might have affected the distance.
> Also Atavax's test seemed to be horizontally stable (probably no rotation around z).
> 
> So it is either that atavax's mouse is buggy (unusual to have mouse sensor acceleration as a bug)
> Or that the new "Delta Zero" sensor (PMW3366DM) has acceleration effect at very high acceleration (higher probability)
> The best way to find out is to try and mimic atavax's test and see the result.


Uhm.. maybe my english skills are terrible hence i still didn't get it or this is logically flawed at some point.

As i got it right it's speed dependant. However if you turn fast using lowsens you most likely hit the "accel" you've described. While i think this is logically flawed as a human can't swipe the mouse 1:1 speed wise & accel is dependant on how fast you move the mouse. On the other hand hardware accel should actually have random values if so those formulars wouldn't make sense in the first place.

Those human swipe tests are not reliable for me while it would surprize me if pixart messes up with the 3366 after releasing an accel free 3310.


----------



## F120

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> The way i understand accel issue is like this.
> 
> "No accel" mouse
> Will ignore accelerated speed of movement and only factor the speed which will result in constant distance.
> Ex: mouse movement from a to b will always travel the same distance on screen (accel is not factored)
> 
> "accel" mouse
> Will be affected by the accelerated movement and will factor acceleration into distance changing original distance.
> Ex: mouse movement from a to b will result in different distance on the screen based on the movement acceleration
> So basically you have to move your mouse in accelerated speed to check if this issue is there or not.
> Assuming that i am right. It troubles me that you made a review without knowing this..


Ok I think I understand the problem. Mouse accel is not a function of actual accelerated movement. It just refers to the sensor error that can occur at high speeds if the sensor can't track perfectly, resulting in different distances moved.


----------



## Falkentyne

Well, this mouse is just completely awesome.
Yeah it's slightly heavier than the Deathadder Black/3.5g, but HOLY MOTHER OF GOD, 1.2mm liftoff distance on everything..And unlike the deathadder black edition, it tracks perfectly on the older Golathus speed edition (the DA black, funny enough, would malfunction on it at medium speeds, while the old 3G deathadder tracked perfectly on it..go figure).


----------



## thebski

I'm going to go pick up this mouse at Best Buy in a little bit. Can't wait to try it!


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Ok
> Assuming that you did not understand my point.
> 
> Speed : Is change of distance over time.
> Ex (distance : time) : (2 : 1) then (4 : 2) then (6 : 3) then (8 : 4) then (10 : 5) then (12 : 6) Is a constant speed of 2.
> Acceleration : Is change of speed over time.
> Ex (distance : time,speed) : (2 : 1,2) then (8 : 2,4) then (18 : 3,6) then (32 : 4,8) then (50 : 5,10) then (72 : 6,12) is accelerated speed of 2
> 
> All of the previously done tests had a certain level of acceleration (because you always have to initiate movement from 0) yet it seems that only atavax where able to reach higher levels of acceleration which might have affected the distance.
> Also Atavax's test seemed to be horizontally stable (probably no rotation around z).
> 
> So it is either that atavax's mouse is buggy (unusual to have mouse sensor acceleration as a bug)
> Or that the new "Delta Zero" sensor (PMW3366DM) has acceleration effect at very high acceleration (higher probability)
> The best way to find out is to try and mimic atavax's test and see the result.


Jesus, i did the same as Atavax, one fast swipe (very high acceleration needed to get that fast quickly!) and a slow swipe back (very little acceleration).

I think you don't really get what accel is. It's independent of the speed you're going at.

Once again: I did the same test Atavax did, in a theoretically worse movement pattern to try and see how that would affect the distance traveled by the cursor. In my test there was no notable acceleration, in atavax's test there was. I might try again on 400 dpi, but I doubt that is the reason. Everybody except Atavax seems to have no accel, so my guess is he has a defective unit.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Well, this mouse is just completely awesome.
> Yeah it's slightly heavier than the Deathadder Black/3.5g, but HOLY MOTHER OF GOD, 1.2mm liftoff distance on everything..And unlike the deathadder black edition, it tracks perfectly on the older Golathus speed edition (the DA black, funny enough, would malfunction on it at medium speeds, while the old 3G deathadder tracked perfectly on it..go figure).


Welcome to the club!

I tried not to hype it up until there were more test results from more people, but from day one I said it was the most accurate sensor I have ever used - and although I have not posted here as a regular for a long time I have been PC gaming since the 90s. My first self built PC was a Socket A Duron back in ~2002, pencil modded for faster FSB OC'd to 2ghz







.

Now that I am used to the narrow left click and dont hit the DPI UP anymore, I do not have a single complaint about the G502 - I wish it was slightly wider and had a pinky ledge, but I have big lanky 2XL hands so I'm probably in the minority







.


----------



## Amperial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Jesus, i did the same as Atavax, one fast swipe (very high acceleration needed to get that fast quickly!) and a slow swipe back (very little acceleration).
> 
> I think you don't really get what accel is. It's independent of the speed you're going at.
> 
> Once again: I did the same test Atavax did, in a theoretically worse movement pattern to try and see how that would affect the distance traveled by the cursor. In my test there was no notable acceleration, in atavax's test there was. I might try again on 400 dpi, but I doubt that is the reason. Everybody except Atavax seems to have no accel, so my guess is he has a defective unit.


Not related to this now.
But what if there is a sensor that malfunctions differently.

There are sensors that give negative accel at a certain mouse speeds so who knows how newer sensors do behave.
However i agree, i kinda didn't get his post aswell.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Jesus, i did the same as Atavax, one fast swipe (very high acceleration needed to get that fast quickly!) and a slow swipe back (very little acceleration).
> 
> I think you don't really get what accel is. It's independent of the speed you're going at.
> 
> Once again: I did the same test Atavax did, in a theoretically worse movement pattern to try and see how that would affect the distance traveled by the cursor. In my test there was no notable acceleration, in atavax's test there was. I might try again on 400 dpi, but I doubt that is the reason. Everybody except Atavax seems to have no accel, so my guess is he has a defective unit.


I'm not the brightest among my colleagues but i think i know what acceleration is.
As mentioned before more displacement or distance over a period of less time is greater acceleration.
None of you did it as fast as Avatax

Any way there is another possible factor that could solve explain this issue.

But there is news, and this could probably be the reason.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deku*
> 
> just for your information, cs go raw input is bugged. Do it without raw input, maybe it will be different


That was a quote on this video which was testing the AVIOR 7000 PMW3310 sensor which is "known" to have no acceleration.



The problem might be in the game (CS:GO) though
If that is true then there is no evidence that the new "Delta Zero" (PWM3366DM) mouse has any acceleration (Highly probable).


----------



## Atavax

i did the acceleration test in cs go, tf2, and quake live. all of them positive for acceleration consistently.


----------



## metal571

I am the recorder of that video and posted that. Yeah I may have to redo that. It is possible CS GO (which of all games really should NOT have an issue like that) has an issue.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Everybody except Atavax seems to have no accel, so my guess is he has a defective unit.


the NSA must of bugged my mouse and accidentally damaged the sensor while they were at it : )


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i did the acceleration test in cs go, tf2, and quake live. all of them positive for acceleration consistently.


----------



## mousefan

57 pages for this mouse? speaks for logitech, but this mouse seems to fly low. From a gamersperspective, it should so damn easy to come in with the right productline covering all customers (even main lefties like me) easily, but they are rather messing around with those curious 12000 dpi cyber laser constructions. iron man would be proud. XD


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I am the recorder of that video and posted that. Yeah I may have to redo that. It is possible CS GO (which of all games really should NOT have an issue like that) has an issue.


I just did the same test with the avior 7000 in cs:go and landed exactly on the same spot. I used m_rawniput 0 though.

Edit: For reference: 1000hz, default lod, 1600dpi.


----------



## fellcbr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i did the acceleration test in cs go, tf2, and quake live. all of them positive for acceleration consistently.


Can you ask for another one? send it to RMA? i would love if you do the same test with another sample..


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Once again: I did the same test Atavax did, in a theoretically worse movement pattern to try and see how that would affect the distance traveled by the cursor. In my test there was no notable acceleration, in atavax's test there was. I might try again on 400 dpi, but I doubt that is the reason. Everybody except Atavax seems to have no accel, so my guess is he has a defective unit.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not the brightest among my colleagues but i think i know what acceleration is.
> As mentioned before more displacement or distance over a period of less time is greater acceleration.
> None of you did it as fast as Avatax
Click to expand...

I think I know why you are confused: you are only looking at the screen recordings of the game of both Atavax and Ino, but you are not thinking about the math and about what actually happened for both in the real world on their desk with their hand movement. You can't know if Atavax was really much faster than Ino by looking at the video. This is because they do not use the same sensitivity settings. Ino might have much lower sensitivity settings and actually moved the mouse just as fast as Atavax.

Ino said he moved his mouse a distance of about half a meter. Think about that distance and how it looked in the game in his video. The actual hand movement must have been pretty fast.


----------



## end0rphine

Just a note about that sniper button: I agree Logitech really DID NOT think that through. It would appear there is only one way to grip this mouse (I'm not talking palm, claw or fingertip grip here), and if you don't conform to it, you're SOL. Also, for such an expensive mouse wheel, my finger slips on it all the time making it useless. The lip (yes there is a lip, but not in the traditional logitech sense) on the right side prevents my pinky and ring finger from cohabiting comfortably, unless I claw the mouse. If I claw, my thumb sits RIGHT ON TOP of the sniper button. I've seen smaller mice that are more comfortable to palm than this one.

The mouse itself is not catered towards a *competitive* gamer, or even one that cares about being good with a mouse. This is an office mouse, through and through.


----------



## Atavax

i think the overall shape works quite nicely. The right side does have a very slight ridge, which is comfortable to claw and you can also put your ring finger on top of the ridge if that is how you prefer to grip. IMO its a nice compromise. The scroll wheel is very questionable, the position of the side buttons, some people hit the sniper button, i hit the other side buttons and occasionally accidentally hit the profile switch in the middle. Then the overall weight is a bit much as well. I hope we see more mice with this very thick and flexible braided cable, and very long rubber connector for the cable.


----------



## Falkentyne

You can unassign the sniper button and the dpi buttons in the software, and save it to a profile onboard. Very easily done.


----------



## Atavax

Ino's sensitivity was around 23.5 inches per 360 while my sensitivity was about 11.7 inches per 360 (i typically do 12-12.5, but g502 is heavy







) So Ino's sensitivity was about half of mine, that is why it might of looked like he was moving his a little slower.


----------



## end0rphine

I'd also add, the mouse is stable enough to function and swipe around with the weight lid off. I have a Zowie G-RF mousepad, so the base is solid rubber, making the mousepad deformation structure similar to a hardpad.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> You can unassign the sniper button and the dpi buttons in the software, and save it to a profile onboard. Very easily done.


First thing that I did. _However_ a depressed button when swiping takes a lot out of the leverage or grip you were using to swipe in the first place. Same concept as balancing on a non-uniform surface.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> The mouse itself is not catered towards a competitive gamer, or *even one that cares about being good with a mouse.* This is an office mouse, through and through.


we talk always about these (stupid) matters.
first things first, if you are good, you are good with every decent mouse.
a game it's not all about flickshots, it's about much else.

that said, i am not a pro gamer or an experienced one, but I am starting to like to be really competitive in amateur matches....and I can often best veterans of Crysis with a mere MMO7:
too heavy, unconfortable beacuse there are too many buttons on the thumbrest, with a flawed PTE sensor

i switched definately to this mouse because the DA was too laggy, but I can kick some asses with the DA even if it's less responsive.

all this to say that having the best mouse is not gonna make you a pro competitive gamer, it's experience, it's brain reaction, it's the ability to adapt.

if you are not a pro, you should think about being good AT GAMING, before being so picky for a mouse choice, because a flawless mouse isn't going to make you the world champion


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> we talk always about these (stupid) matters.
> first things first, if you are good, you are good with every decent mouse.
> a game it's not all about flickshots, it's about much else.
> 
> that said, i am not a pro gamer or an experienced one, but I am starting to like to be really competitive in amateur matches....and I can often best veterans of Crysis with a mere MMO7:
> too heavy, unconfortable beacuse there are too many buttons on the thumbrest, with a flawed PTE sensor
> 
> i switched definately to this mouse because the DA was too laggy, but I can kick some asses with the DA even if it's less responsive.
> 
> all this to say that having the best mouse is not gonna make you a pro competitive gamer, it's experience, it's brain reaction, it's the ability to adapt.
> 
> if you are not a pro, you should think about being good AT GAMING, before being so picky for a mouse choice, because a flawless mouse isn't going to make you the world champion


My post didn't imply that a mouse will make you a professional player. Ultimately, there are better mice available that don't make these silly layout positions. To say "even one that cares about being good with a mouse" suggests that the logitech g502 is very hostile to certain grip configurations, and is also limited by the button layout. Would I perform better with a mouse that has a better mouse shell profile and layout, mouse wheel and properly positioned side buttons? Yes, *I will*.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> My post didn't imply that a mouse will make you a professional player. Ultimately, there are better mice available that don't make these silly layout positions. To say "even one that cares about being good with a mouse" suggests that the logitech g502 is very hostile to certain grip configurations, and is also limited by the button layout. Would I perform better with a mouse that has a better mouse shell profile and layout, mouse wheel and properly positioned side buttons? Yes, *I will*.


obviously the shell profile, or buttons can be hostile to certain grip configurations....but that's the point, only CERTAIN

there are people that are not bothered by the sniper button, or that would love the shape of this mouse....I hate the shape of the MX518,just like the standard logitech scroll wheel.... but many do not....
calling it a plain office mouse because it doesn't suit your needs is too reductive.


----------



## Necroblob

Sorry if this is an obvious question, but for those doing the acceleration test in CSGO, were you using m_rawinput 1 *and* m_customaccel 0?


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> obviously the shell profile, or buttons can be hostile to certain grip configurations....but that's the point, only CERTAIN
> 
> there are people that are not bothered by the sniper button, or that would love the shape of this mouse....I hate the shape of the MX518,just like the standard logitech scroll wheel.... but many do not....
> calling it a plain office mouse because it doesn't suit your needs is too reductive.


The problem is, other mice don't have silly side button configurations or sniper buttons. When I try a mouse, I try to accomodate my hand to the mouse shell. What I found with the G502 is that the shell itself is highly restrictive due to the side buttons and sniper button, to the point where it would be incredibly difficult to recommend this mouse to other people. Other mice also don't have a ridiculously front heavy mouse shell (apart from the G500). Is the G502s' layout highly generalizable? I would say no, in the same sense that the best ergonomic chair is the one that provides enough customizable height and width tolerances to fit the most people. So who would I recommend the mouse to? Office workers.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> The problem is, other mice don't have silly side button configurations or sniper buttons. When I try a mouse, I try to accomodate my hand to the mouse shell. What I found with the G502 is that the shell itself is highly restrictive due to the side buttons and sniper button, to the point where it would be incredibly difficult to recommend this mouse to other people. Other mice also don't have a ridiculously front heavy mouse shell (apart from the G500). Is the G502s' layout highly generalizable? I would say no, in the same sense that the best ergonomic chair is the one that provides enough customizable height and width tolerances to fit the most people. So who would I recommend the mouse to? Office workers.


but there are many mice with the sniper button, and it can be binded for other functions like melee or grenade launching.
the addition of a couple of buttons can be useful to bind some actions and allow you to stay more focused on the WASD of the keyboard

it may be not a hardcore obsessed gamer's mouse, but neither a office worker's....
I think it's a good all around mouse that can be used for both tasks with good results


----------



## xSociety

Okay, so I got the mouse. The sniper button is actually hard for me to reach due to my fingertip/claw grip. I have it set to my shadowplay record button. Lol

I have very big hands btw.


----------



## Atavax

seems like i'm having some more software problems with my g502. First i had all 3 profiles enabled but i clicked in the first profile and selected 12000 dpi, and it wouldn't go to 12000 dpi, then i tried clicking on the higher dpi button and it wouldn't go to 12000 dpi. then i disabled the other 2 profiles and it finally went to a high dpi which i assmed was 12000. Then i went ingame and set my sensitivity to 0.115 which should of given me just under 12 inches per 360, instead it was not nearly sensitive enough, i had to set to 0.4 sensitivity which is indicative of it being way lower then 12000 dpi more along 3500 dpi. which is odd because the only sensitivity other then 12,000 in any of my profiles is 400dpi and it definately wasn't 400 dpi, but definately wasn't 12,000 either because after switching in and out of several different profiles eventually i got it to be 12,000 dpi.


----------



## thebski

Picked this mouse up this afternoon. I'm really liking it so far. It tracks so smoothly. Shooting tv missiles in Bf4 is noticeably easier coming from my G9x. I'm struggling a little but to retain my recoil control, but that's just because the grip is so different.

I have set the 3 side buttons to both gadgets and toggle primary. I set the two dpi buttons to toggle mini map zoom and toggle large map. That way if I accidentally hit them while shooting while I'm getting used to it, it doesn't really affect my gun fight. Finally I set left and right scroll tilt to grenade and knife. Literally the perfect amount of buttons and all are extremely easy to hit.

The grip is going to take some getting used to coming from the wide body G9x, but I think it will be worth getting used to. As I said, seems like it tracks perfectly.


----------



## the1onewolf

Speaking of the grip.
Take some pictures of the right side of your mouse with your normal grip.
I want to see how the mouse accommodates your ring finger and pinkie.

Thanks.


----------



## Puck

Lol so now if a mouse doesnt fit your personal grip, its an office mouse by default?

Just when you've thought you heard it all







.


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Lol so now if a mouse doesnt fit your personal grip, its an office mouse by default?
> 
> Just when you've thought you heard it all
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


You didn't read the later posts did you?


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1onewolf*
> 
> Speaking of the grip.
> Take some pictures of the right side of your mouse with your normal grip.
> I want to see how the mouse accommodates your ring finger and pinkie.
> 
> Thanks.


I will once my camera charges a bit. Basically, I just barely rest my right ring finger on the right corner line of the mouse, although it plays basically no part in my grip. It just lightly rests there. My right pinky grips the mouse on the right side such that my pinky is almost flush with the bottom of the mouse. The more I play with it the more comfortable it's becoming. I'll get some pics in a bit.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> You didn't read the later posts did you?


Yes, they were just as rediculous.


----------



## thebski

Ok, here are some pictures of my hand gripping the mouse. For comparisons sake, my hands are size XL when wearing a glove. They are more wide than they are long though, so that's why this is a bit of an adjustment.


Spoiler: Pictures

















Edit: One other thing I'd like to add. I've had no issues with the scroll wheel so far. I can't imagine how you'd slip on it given its ribs unless you were barely touching it at all.


----------



## Ice009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *end0rphine*
> 
> You didn't read the later posts did you?


It's not an office mouse at all. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it an office mouse. Absolutely ridiculous statements on your part. Even if the scroll wheel is better suited for office stuff, that still doesn't make it an office mouse like you were trying to imply.


----------



## Ukkooh

So has anyone else other than Avatax used this mouse with hayate yet? I'd like to buy it out to test it if someone confirms that it doesn't suffer from acceleration on the hayate.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ice009*
> 
> It's not an office mouse at all. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it an office mouse. Absolutely ridiculous statements on your part. Even if the scroll wheel is better suited for office stuff, that still doesn't make it an office mouse like you were trying to imply.


I kinda feel like the G502 would be great when I just surfing on the internet, just not suitable for gaming.


----------



## mousefan

This is a great mouse by logitech. If you Support them with those cyber laser constructions you only confirm them doing the right thing.

There is still nothing over this original G400 Baby without anglesnapping. I got four of them in stock as you see(don't got my name for nothing) and as i will Show you how to play as a righty coming from a mainly lefty mouse Setup over years, you will see what's going on. I already feel the supberb control I have with it, give me three consistent months and you will never think i played as a lefty once.









This mouse is a all time classics, form know from legendary mx 518 and i could use it the next 20 years if i wanna do so and it would be maybe just smart. changing mice all three months is counterproductive so get one and play with it for real over years and don't use cyber 12000 dpi stuff only cause it's new.

the old School mice already proved to be untouchable and you should prefer a original g400 a g502 anytime so far you have a clue about those.









cya


----------



## Ice009

The main issue with the G400 for me is that I don't like the shape of it that much. I've got a G5, and the shape and the sensor is the main reason I am going to get something newer. The shape and sensor are both on par for me when looking to choose a new mouse. So even with the best sensor ever, if the shape sucks for me, then I can't really use the mouse. I think the shape and sensor both go hand in hand. You're pretty much touting the G400 because of the sensor and performance, but neglected to mention that the shape might not be for all users.


----------



## Atavax

i ordered a g400 in May 2012 and was unlucky enough to get the version of the g400 before the revision. Not only was there prediction and less then ideal ergonomics, but the cable failed on me fairly quickly. : /


----------



## mnick

Will this mouse work with fingertip/claw grip? Or just palm?


----------



## Falkentyne

I see "mousefan" is still trolling these forums? I put him on ignore years ago....
And G502 (IMO) is the best mouse since the 3G deathadder with no prediction firmware. The 3.5g's were ok except LOD and 3500 dpi was unusuable.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> I see "mousefan" is still trolling these forums? I put him on ignore years ago....
> And G502 (IMO) is the best mouse since the 3G deathadder with no prediction firmware. The 3.5g's were ok except LOD and 3500 dpi was unusuable.


He's not a troll, every mouse he's ever tried is just the best there's ever been in the history of existence.


----------



## metal571

I'd say the Avior/Naos 7000 and the G502 are simply the best mice available right now, with the Corsair M45 falling only slightly behind if we're talking about actual specs + reliability and build quality. Forget about the Rival.


----------



## the1onewolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> Ok, here are some pictures of my hand gripping the mouse. For comparisons sake, my hands are size XL when wearing a glove. They are more wide than they are long though, so that's why this is a bit of an adjustment.
> 
> Edit: One other thing I'd like to add. I've had no issues with the scroll wheel so far. I can't imagine how you'd slip on it given its ribs unless you were barely touching it at all.


Thanks for that!


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I think I know why you are confused: you are only looking at the screen recordings of the game of both Atavax and Ino, but you are not thinking about the math and about what actually happened for both in the real world on their desk with their hand movement. You can't know if Atavax was really much faster than Ino by looking at the video. This is because they do not use the same sensitivity settings. Ino might have much lower sensitivity settings and actually moved the mouse just as fast as Atavax.
> 
> Ino said he moved his mouse a distance of about half a meter. Think about that distance and how it looked in the game in his video. The actual hand movement must have been pretty fast.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> Ino's sensitivity was around 23.5 inches per 360 while my sensitivity was about 11.7 inches per 360 (i typically do 12-12.5, but g502 is heavy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) So Ino's sensitivity was about half of mine, that is why it might of looked like he was moving his a little slower.


Thanks, I was about to explain that myself








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mousefan*
> 
> 
> 
> This is a great mouse by logitech. If you Support them with those cyber laser constructions you only confirm them doing the right thing.
> 
> There is still nothing over this original G400 Baby without anglesnapping. I got four of them in stock as you see(don't got my name for nothing) and as i will Show you how to play as a righty coming from a mainly lefty mouse Setup over years, you will see what's going on. I already feel the supberb control I have with it, give me three consistent months and you will never think i played as a lefty once.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This mouse is a all time classics, form know from legendary mx 518 and i could use it the next 20 years if i wanna do so and it would be maybe just smart. changing mice all three months is counterproductive so get one and play with it for real over years and don't use cyber 12000 dpi stuff only cause it's new.
> 
> the old School mice already proved to be untouchable and you should prefer a original g400 a g502 anytime so far you have a clue about those.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cya


You didn't even try it yet to compare, yet you already say you'd rather use the G400 because it has a better sensor? Because it hasn't. I would have expected differently from you.
Of course the G400 might be better for you, but that can only be due to shape/weight. Otherwise it's inferior.


----------



## Ice009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> You didn't even try it yet to compare, yet you already say you'd rather use the G400 because it has a better sensor? Because it hasn't. I would have expected differently from you.
> Of course the G400 might be better for you, but that can only be due to shape/weight. Otherwise it's inferior.


Hmm, maybe he has to justify the purchase of those 4 boxes of unopened mice stacked up there?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ice009*
> 
> Hmm, maybe he has to justify the purchase of those 4 boxes of unopened mice stacked up there?


Nah, he has stacks of many mice, so I think money is his least concern







And that's fine, sitting in the glass house myself here, although not to such extents.


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> So has anyone else other than Avatax used this mouse with hayate yet? I'd like to buy it out to test it if someone confirms that it doesn't suffer from acceleration on the hayate.


I use it one the Hayate, no problems with tracking.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> I use it one the Hayate, no problems with tracking.


Thank you. Just to be sure, have you done any acceleration tests?


----------



## Falkentyne

No accel in UT2004 at 1800 dpi and in game mouse sens of 0.30. Flawless. (Ut2004 being an old but 100% reliable test of true raw input).


----------



## Ino.

To get at that accel thing again I tried both the Zowie EC1 eVo CL and the G502 next to each other. Guess which was more accurate?




Please keep in mind that my sens is rather low at 60 cm/360° so my mousepad at work only allows me to do around 180° turns. The one occasion where the G502 seemed off was actually because I hit the side of my mousepad at the end of the fast swipe.

EDIT:
Just did the test also with the G400, same result as EC1, it's off by a little bit. I guess my swipes are beyond the perfect control speed of the A3090... still weird, I could have sworn that the A3090 had no accel to me when I tried that years ago.

EDIT2: No, that's not it, even at lower speeds there is slight accel. I guess the A3090 just isn't as good as I remembered it. It's not a big deal as it seems very consistent, still bothers me.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I'm not the brightest among my colleagues but i think i know what acceleration is.
> As mentioned before more displacement or distance over a period of less time is greater acceleration.
> None of you did it as fast as Avatax


Just for you




That's how fast I did it all the time, my sens is just less than half of his. Done this time on 400 dpi with in-game sens 3.51 to get 11.7 inches/360° just like Atavax.


----------



## Axaion

gotta admit, im really happy that logitech seems to have nailed the sensor and mouseclick parts, now they just need a shape i like


----------



## Atavax

anyone else test the mouse at 12,000 dpi in a shooter? Not sure if the mouse is performing poorly or if high dpi is just legitimately horrible for shooters. Using a very low ingame sensitivity of 0.115 for a similar sensitivity to what i'm use to and its performing pretty poorly.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> anyone else test the mouse at 12,000 dpi in a shooter? Not sure if the mouse is performing poorly or if high dpi is just legitimately horrible for shooters. Using a very low ingame sensitivity of 0.115 for a similar sensitivity to what i'm use to and its performing pretty poorly.


I cant imagine using 12k DPI in anything at all, but I will give it a try for you.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> anyone else test the mouse at 12,000 dpi in a shooter? Not sure if the mouse is performing poorly or if high dpi is just legitimately horrible for shooters. Using a very low ingame sensitivity of 0.115 for a similar sensitivity to what i'm use to and its performing pretty poorly.


will try now against some bots

EDIT: uhm, ok, so the movement looked fine initially, but at the sens I would need (0.058) the mouse cursor always jumps out of the window at fast swipes... lol? Even at fullscreen. Guess the game can't handle it


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> Thank you. Just to be sure, have you done any acceleration tests?


I will record one on the Hayate, when I get home.


----------



## Amperial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I'd say the Avior/Naos 7000 and the G502 are simply the best mice available right now, with the Corsair M45 falling only slightly behind if we're talking about actual specs + reliability and build quality. Forget about the Rival.


I beg to differ. Especially regarding the Rival part.
I would recommend everyone who came from the Deathadder the Rival over the G502 or the Naos.

People really forget the shape / weight and in that case Rival > G502.
All i see people are like "G502, perfect sensor, perfect mouse for you!" Sadly this isn't the case.

For people who don't go extreme on lowsens the FK2014 might be better than any of these mice.


----------



## Etizolam

I gotta say, after a weekend with the mouse and about 10 hours of BF4, I am really loving it. My grip has adjusted and I no longer accidentally press the sniper button, or any button at that. The shape is reminiscent of my G400, so I have no complaints there, either.

All in all, very pleased. My brother also got a G502, and he loves it even more than I do. He games more as well, for what it is worth.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I think I know why you are confused: you are only looking at the screen recordings of the game of both Atavax and Ino, but you are not thinking about the math and about what actually happened for both in the real world on their desk with their hand movement. You can't know if Atavax was really much faster than Ino by looking at the video. This is because they do not use the same sensitivity settings. Ino might have much lower sensitivity settings and actually moved the mouse just as fast as Atavax.
> 
> Ino said he moved his mouse a distance of about half a meter. Think about that distance and how it looked in the game in his video. The actual hand movement must have been pretty fast.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> Ino's sensitivity was around 23.5 inches per 360 while my sensitivity was about 11.7 inches per 360 (i typically do 12-12.5, but g502 is heavy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) So Ino's sensitivity was about half of mine, that is why it might of looked like he was moving his a little slower.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> To get at that accel thing again I tried both the Zowie EC1 eVo CL and the G502 next to each other. Guess which was more accurate?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please keep in mind that my sens is rather low at 60 cm/360° so my mousepad at work only allows me to do around 180° turns. The one occasion where the G502 seemed off was actually because I hit the side of my mousepad at the end of the fast swipe.
> 
> EDIT:
> Just did the test also with the G400, same result as EC1, it's off by a little bit. I guess my swipes are beyond the perfect control speed of the A3090... still weird, I could have sworn that the A3090 had no accel to me when I tried that years ago.
> 
> EDIT2: No, that's not it, even at lower speeds there is slight accel. I guess the A3090 just isn't as good as I remembered it. It's not a big deal as it seems very consistent, still bothers me.


Thanks for further testing and the explanation.


----------



## Ice009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Etizolam*
> 
> I gotta say, after a weekend with the mouse and about 10 hours of BF4, I am really loving it. My grip has adjusted and I no longer accidentally press the sniper button, or any button at that. The shape is reminiscent of my G400, so I have no complaints there, either.
> 
> All in all, very pleased. My brother also got a G502, and he loves it even more than I do. He games more as well, for what it is worth.


Darn, that's not what I wanted to hear about the shape. You think it's close to the G400? I want to get this mouse, but I'm not a fan of that shape. To me, the G502 shape looked like it might feel a little different/more comfortable than the G400, but that's just going off of pictures.


----------



## Etizolam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ice009*
> 
> Darn, that's not what I wanted to hear about the shape. You think it's close to the G400? I want to get this mouse, but I'm not a fan of that shape. To me, the G502 shape looked like it might feel a little different/more comfortable than the G400, but that is going off of pictures.










Sorry you don't like the feel. I haven't used the G400 again since putting my new G502 in, so I will have to do a comparison to tell you for sure, but it does remind me of it. It makes me feel like I have more of a full feeling in my palm, compared to the normal "office" mice, which is what I like in a mouse. Obviously tastes vary.


----------



## Atavax

the ridge on the right side of the mouse is much less pronounced in the g502, compared to the g400, so its much more comfortable to hold in a claw grip imo


----------



## Blutch

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> the ridge on the right side of the mouse is much less pronounced in the g502, compared to the g400, so its much more comfortable to hold in a claw grip imo


thats good to hear.


----------



## Atavax

I just need to get out of this bad juju funk i've been in with logitech for awhile. Ordered G400, got the original version with prediction, and the cable started failing fairly quickly after i started using it. Then recently i bought a g100s expecting a max speed around 4m/s because thats what their site said instead its much lower and too low for me. Then i got the g502 and i'm getting acceleration no one else is getting with it....


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Etizolam*
> 
> I gotta say, after a weekend with the mouse and about 10 hours of BF4, I am really loving it. My grip has adjusted and I no longer accidentally press the sniper button, or any button at that. The shape is reminiscent of my G400, so I have no complaints there, either.
> 
> All in all, very pleased. My brother also got a G502, and he loves it even more than I do. He games more as well, for what it is worth.


I completely agree with you. I probably only have 4 or 5 hours in game with it so far, but I am already loving the button placements. They are right there and so easy to get to once you adapt a little and don't hit them inadvertently. My grip is quickly adjusting and I am already feeling at home with it. Don't regret the purchase at all. I feel it will only get better as I get a few more hours with it.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't adjust the DPI, ever. I try to use same DPI and make the in/360 the same in everything to build muscle memory. Because of that, the "Sniper" button and DPI adjust buttons just become well placed accessory buttons for me.


----------



## xmr1

I got to hold the display mouse in the store today and I have to say the mouse is a lot smaller in person than it looks online. For example, it felt slightly narrower than my Avior (from memory) and while it is a little longer than the Avior, the wheel and buttons feel like they're placed closer to the base of the mouse. So at least with my hand size, there was a bit of "extra" length at the front of the mouse that didn't make the mouse feel quite as big as it measures.

I did find the sniper button to be annoying like many others here. I don't even have big hands and my thumb was catching the edge of the button. Not enough to push it down, but enough to always be aware that my thumb is making contact with it. None of the other buttons felt like they were intrusive.

As for the weight, there's no getting around it. When I first picked it up I thought the store had pre-installed the weights but turns out it was empty. The rubber grips are quality and probably help deal with lifting the mouse frequently, however the biggest help would be getting rid of the awful scroll wheel. That thing felt like a Ferris wheel sticking out of the mouse. It was big, clunky, loud, hard to push.. literally hated everything about the wheel.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> I did find the sniper button to be annoying like many others here. I don't even have big hands and my thumb was catching the edge of the button. Not enough to push it down, but *enough to always be aware that my thumb is making contact with it*. None of the other buttons felt like they were intrusive.


so every mouse is annoying because you are aware you are touching something with your hand?


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> I just need to get out of this bad juju funk i've been in with logitech for awhile. Ordered G400, got the original version with prediction, and the cable started failing fairly quickly after i started using it. Then recently i bought a g100s expecting a max speed around 4m/s because thats what their site said instead its much lower and too low for me. Then i got the g502 and i'm getting acceleration no one else is getting with it....


RMA


----------



## xSociety

Fixed the color!


----------



## fellcbr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xSociety*
> 
> Fixed the color!


What have you done?????? You.. you.. HERETIC!


----------



## vss vintorez

#CPate
There's a mistake at the box when you're indicating MAX SPEED and MAX ACCEL, It's written in the wrong magnitude

That's the magnitude of acceleration distance/time^2.
Just my 2 cents there







.

edit: And the G is also wrong I've just seen that. It shouldn't have that 2 over there.


----------



## Ino.

dw
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> #CPate
> There's a mistake at the box when you're indicating MAX SPEED and MAX ACCEL, It's written in the wrong magnitude
> 
> That's the magnitude of acceleration distance/time^2.
> Just my 2 cents there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> edit: And the G is also wrong I've just seen that. It shouldn't have that 2 over there.


Hehe, saw that too


----------



## early

The mouse seems way too gimmicky for my taste. A few buttons too many, extra weights (are you kidding me)...

It's great that it has a good sensor, but I wish they'd put it in a more simple/ergonomic/lightweight mouse. And with a decent scroll wheel (not like the G400 one).


----------



## Falkentyne

Eh? The scroll wheel is *GOD*. It actually has a sensor which only activates a scroll if the wheel is moved at a certain speed, not a certain distance (you can move the wheel 360 degrees and not scroll. And the fact that it actually has resistance (if you turn off the free scroll) means its harder to move accidentally. I love it.


----------



## Puck

Finally found a use for the stupid sniper button...

Picking the difficult locks in Fallout 3/NV


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> #CPate
> There's a mistake at the box when you're indicating MAX SPEED and MAX ACCEL, It's written in the wrong magnitude
> 
> That's the magnitude of acceleration distance/time^2.
> Just my 2 cents there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> edit: And the G is also wrong I've just seen that. It shouldn't have that 2 over there.


Are there any notes below that or something? That little 2 could refer to additional notes on the figures.


----------



## thebski

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Eh? The scroll wheel is *GOD*. It actually has a sensor which only activates a scroll if the wheel is moved at a certain speed, not a certain distance (you can move the wheel 360 degrees and not scroll. And the fact that it actually has resistance (if you turn off the free scroll) means its harder to move accidentally. I love it.


Would agree. Lot's of complaints in this thread about the wheel. I don't know how many of them have actually used the mouse, but the wheel is one of my favorite parts about it aside from it's insanely accurate and smooth tracking.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Finally found a use for the stupid sniper button...
> 
> Picking the difficult locks in Fallout 3/NV


It doesn't have to be a "sniper" button. You can change it to whatever you want. I actually really appreciate that button and it's location. I always had the forward button as my toggle primary/secondary weapon, and the back button was my Gadget 2 in BF4. Now with the "sniper" button there's a perfect button for my Gadget 1 as well.


----------



## jsx3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> Are there any notes below that or something? That little 2 could refer to additional notes on the figures.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsx3*


LOL
those numbers are for notes, aren't ^2


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> LOL
> those numbers are for notes, aren't ^2


I didn't think about that but annotations in general are like between brackets (2)


----------



## Ricey20

Atavax, did you test for acceleration on another mouse pad besides the Hayate by any chance? I've been keeping up with the thread but I can't remember


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ricey20*
> 
> Atavax, did you test for acceleration on another mouse pad besides the Hayate by any chance? I've been keeping up with the thread but I can't remember


yes, i tested on the QCK+ as well


----------



## pifive

This happened today.... Well check back later

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thebski*
> 
> Would agree. Lot's of complaints in this thread about the wheel. I don't know how many of them have actually used the mouse, but the wheel is one of my favorite parts about it aside from it's insanely accurate and smooth tracking.
> It doesn't have to be a "sniper" button. You can change it to whatever you want. I actually really appreciate that button and it's location. I always had the forward button as my toggle primary/secondary weapon, and the back button was my Gadget 2 in BF4. Now with the "sniper" button there's a perfect button for my Gadget 1 as well.


When I first got the mouse I didn't like the scroll wheel, it took about 20 hours of game time for me to get used to it and now I love it. Would still prefer some rubber on the wheel or all rubber but I don't think that would work to well with the free spin.

As for the sniper button, this feature I feel is really unnecessary even thoug my grip has adjusted and I dont misclick it anymore. One of the first things I did when I brought the mouse home was install LGS, disable the sniper button and tape it down. Its now a glorified thumb rest.

I also dont use any weights and I dont even use the cover for the bottom.

Waiting for some people to take it apart and strip some weight (if possible) I'm not comfortable taking it apart myself atm, esp since it was $80.


----------



## Blutch

someone please tell me the cable isnt too big for the rantopad mouse bungee :9


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vss vintorez*
> 
> I didn't think about that but annotations in general are like between brackets (2)


you are right, those writings are misleading


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blutch*
> 
> someone please tell me the cable isnt too big for the rantopad mouse bungee :9


I used it on a mouse bungee (the original mouse bungee) and it has no problems, the cord is not that thick anyway.


----------



## Diogenes5

Finally got around to buying this mouse and testing it. After a few days use these are my impressions.

1) It is clawable rather easily which is a nice feature to have. It is also palmable and finger-touchable. The mouse is quite narrow (about the same width as my Zowie FK) and not as high as it looks. As such it is extremely comfortable to me in everyday use as I finger touch when working and claw when gaming.
2) The mouse wheel is a mixed bag. For one it is heavy and firm and provides great feedback in click-mode for productivity purposes. But it's weight also moves the center of gravity of the mouse up and foward nearer to the mouse wheel itself since it is so heavy relative to the rest of the mouse. There is also some slight wobble from it which makes the mouse perform mildly inconsistently in high speed situations. Overall, if they locked it into place a little bit more I would enthusiastically promote it over other options.
3) The sensor is divine. I don't fps ferociously but I can tell there is a lack of smoothing and it has good 1 to 1 tracking across the games I play.
4) The sniper button is surprisingly useful. I use it in SC2 as well to micro and it helped me snipe when scoped in CS go. I don't know if anyone else will appreciate it since I'm not a pro by any means (masters in SC2, only casually play go) but it's a better implementation of the sniper button than I've seen in other mice; mostly because I find it easy to avoid accidentally hitting the button while also find it easy to deliberately hit the button when I need to.
5) I like all the extra buttons and their placement. They have good tactile feedback IMO (I found the musy sidekeys on the G700 a turnoff) and are situated in ways that make them easy to hit when i want to use them and easy to avoid when I just want to use the main mouse buttons.
6) The mouse is heavy. There's no getting around it. It's about 40grams heavier than my Zowie fk and 30grams heavier than my sensei raw. In every day use it really doesn't matter but in SC2, the mouse was too heavy for me over long periods of play.
7) The weights are an annoying gimmick. This mouse is already too heavy for me. The only reason you would want to use them IMO is to move the center of gravity of the mouse more towards the bottom and center of the mouse away from the mousewheel.
8) The mouses grip is very, very high class. I feel that the textures and rubber coating feel better to the touch and offer more grip than similar coatings on my Zowie FK and Sensei Raw. This mouse feels extremely high quality in general.

Some pictures after the break (including comparisons to my Zowie FK, Sensei Raw, and Microsoft Wheel Mouse Optical):


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


























Overall, the mouse feels solid and has a lot of great functionality. Unfortunately for me, it's too heavy for SC2 so I'm returning it and waiting for a g9x. IMO, I'm just happy logitech finally has a good sensor in its premium mice instead of the stupid avago 5700 nonsense. Before only the g100 and g400 and mx518 used high quality optical sensors which meant non-palm users were out of luck.

Out of the mice that are coming out, it's basically between a refresh of the g9x or the cm storm spawn or zowie fk that has this sensor that will get my money in the future.


----------



## fellcbr1

so any DPI works with this sensor? like, it has no "best native steps" ?





at 2:35 he starts talking about the sensor..

EDIT: can someone that has a G400 post comparison shots? i really want to see the side buttons distance..


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fellcbr1*
> 
> so any DPI works with this sensor? like, it has no "best native steps" ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> at 2:35 he starts talking about the sensor..
> 
> EDIT: can someone that has a G400 post comparison shots? i really want to see the side buttons distance..


I think it's native in steps of 100 dpi.



http://imgur.com/BjzqWG0




http://imgur.com/2Z3GDDx


----------



## xmr1

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> I got to hold the display mouse in the store today and I have to say the mouse is a lot smaller in person than it looks online. For example, it felt slightly narrower than my Avior (from memory) and while it is a little longer than the Avior, the wheel and buttons feel like they're placed closer to the base of the mouse. So at least with my hand size, there was a bit of "extra" length at the front of the mouse that didn't make the mouse feel quite as big as it measures.
> 
> I did find the sniper button to be annoying like many others here. I don't even have big hands and my thumb was catching the edge of the button. Not enough to push it down, but enough to always be aware that my thumb is making contact with it. None of the other buttons felt like they were intrusive.
> 
> As for the weight, there's no getting around it. When I first picked it up I thought the store had pre-installed the weights but turns out it was empty. The rubber grips are quality and probably help deal with lifting the mouse frequently, however the biggest help would be getting rid of the awful scroll wheel. That thing felt like a Ferris wheel sticking out of the mouse. It was big, clunky, loud, hard to push.. literally hated everything about the wheel.






Initial in-store thoughts are above. At the time I decided not to purchase it but after reading some other reviews I wanted to try it out more in-depth so I went back last night and picked one up, then came home and put it to use for a few hours.

First thing I noticed after I took it out of the package and went to plug it in was the braided cable. I'm no fan of braided cables in the first place but I found this one to be particularly inflexible. As much as I try to straighten it out it keeps trying to conform to the way it was wrapped up. It is softer and lighter than some other braided cables I've used though.

After unbinding the ridiculous sniper button in the software and setting my DPI levels up, I tried to see if I could notice the difference in responsiveness between the G502 and my 3310 Mionix mice, both on desktop and in game. Maybe the G502 felt a little more raw, but overall they were pretty similar to me and hard to tell apart. With the massive weight difference between the mice it was tough to isolate anything. And to be totally honest, I've never subscribed much to the whole smoothing lag thing and I have a 60 hz monitor, so maybe I'm not the best source on this topic. Either way, the sensor is fantastic and undoubtedly the best to date.

The surface tuner is something I thought would be a gimmick at first. Turns out it actually works well. By default the LOD on my Artisan Hayate was a ways higher than I wanted. After running the tuner the LOD is almost perfect, or at worst like half a millimeter above where my ideal is. Tracking was great both before and after tuning so that part I can't vouch for.

Then I played around in CSGO for a few hours (LE atm). This is where the weight of the mouse came to haunt me. Flick shots and panning movements were OK once some momentum was established, but very fine crosshair adjustments were quite difficult for me due to the weight. This was especially noticeable for recoil control. I tried taking off the weight cover and that made the weight slightly more bearable, and as r0ach mentioned in his thread, it actually significantly improved the meh glide of the mouse. The problem with that was occasionally during heated exchanges or fast swipes the mouse could tilt to the left without the support foot in place. Reluctantly I ended up putting the cover back on. Perhaps I'll adjust to the weight in time but I don't see how someone's performance could ever be optimal when compared to a mouse 30-50g lighter.

The shape held up well and feels smaller than it looks, though I think I'm in the minority that would prefer a more pronounced inward curve somewhere on the right side of the mouse. When I would move my thumb to use one of the thumb buttons it was apparent that my ring and pinky fingers were not contributing to my grip on the mouse as much as I'm used to with other shapes. Because I kept making contact with the sniper button, I had to adjust my thumb to be more like a claw grip to stop it from being annoying. After a while it did make my thumb joint stiff however.

I appreciate what Logitech did with the individual left and right button plates. This is something I missed from my days of using the IME 3.0. The plastic on them is a nice quality feeling too. Rubber grips on the side are awesome but I don't need the entire mouse to be rubberized like Mionix does. The G502 has a solid balance of textures. The switches aren't bad but I like the softer and quieter switches on the Avior a lot better.

Lastly, I stand by everything I said about the scroll wheel. I despise everything about it and have no positives to take. If Logitech offered a smaller and lighter aftermarket replacement wheel, I would buy one and go through any trouble of installing it. Obviously not going to happen, not even sure smaller would be possible, just a thought.

Overall I like the mouse more than I thought I would this time a week ago, however it does have some real flaws for my uses. In the end I'm not sure if I will keep it or not but I'm going to give it at least a few more days to get acclimated. Regardless of that, I still take it as a good sign that Logitech was able to put this much effort, innovation, and attention to detail into a mouse. I wasn't sure we would ever see that from them again. If they put the same kind of work into something more specifically tailored for us traditional FPS players, they have all the potential to release the best gaming mouse we've seen yet.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> Perhaps I'll adjust to the weight in time but I don't see how someone's performance could ever be optimal when compared to a mouse 30-50g lighter.


mionix avior is 100gr, naos 103...we are talking about 18/20gr difference...


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> mionix avior is 100gr, naos 103...we are talking about 18/20gr difference...


I was speaking more about ideal weight in general, not those two models specifically. And 20 grams is not an insignificant amount of weight on a mouse. That's more than all 5 of the G502 optional weights.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> Perhaps I'll adjust to the weight in time but *I don't see how someone's performance could ever be optimal when compared to a mouse 30-50g lighter*.


case closed.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> case closed.


What?
Who closed it?
Why did he?
*WHY?*


----------



## InVicT2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> Perhaps I'll adjust to the weight in time but I don't see how someone's performance could ever be optimal when compared to a mouse 30-50g lighter.


Better say that to the cs go pros that use the rival witch is 7 grams heavier than the g502 i guess they play like crap and suck at aiming







.

Oh and another thing, did you ever tried pair that mouse with a mousepad with less friction on it? Might improve those pixel precision movements.

Many people prefer hard pads because of that.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> Better say that to the cs go pros that use the rival witch is 7 grams heavier than the g502 i guess they play like crap and suck at aiming
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Oh and another thing, did you ever tried pair that mouse with a mousepad with less friction on it? Might improve those pixel precision movements.
> 
> Many people prefer hard pads because of that.


I have not weight the Rival myself but I have seen some pictures showing ~108-110g on a scale. So Rival is more like the DA in weight. Still a bit to heavy imo.


----------



## InVicT2009

Then, Steelseries cant even weight in their own mice, because on the site it weights 128 grams.


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> Better say that to the cs go pros that use the rival witch is 7 grams heavier than the g502 i guess they play like crap and suck at aiming
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Oh and another thing, did you ever tried pair that mouse with a mousepad with less friction on it? Might improve those pixel precision movements.
> 
> Many people prefer hard pads because of that.


The Rival is lighter than the G502, I'll weigh mine when I get home.


----------



## InVicT2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> The Rival is lighter than the G502, I'll weigh mine when I get home.


10 grams more makes a mouse useless for competitive gaming?

Rival -> (suposed) 108-110 grams
G400 -> 104 grams
MX518 -> 107 grams
DA2013 -> 105 grams

These are some cases of fairly equivalent mices in weight compared to the g502 (11-16 gr dif)

Yet these are top of the class competitive grade mice and the g502 is a useless brick


----------



## daav1d

The shape can make huge difference on how heavy the mouse feels as well.


----------



## ronal

Logitech should of just put the sensor in the g400 and g100s.


----------



## InVicT2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> The shape can make huge difference on how heavy the mouse feels as well.


Considering the g502 has designed to have a good center of mass so logitech claims, it shouldnt be a problem shape wise.

The only mouse i said it was a little too heavy was the m90, but thats 150 grams.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> Better say that to the cs go pros that use the rival witch is 7 grams heavier than the g502 i guess they play like crap and suck at aiming
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Oh and another thing, did you ever tried pair that mouse with a mousepad with less friction on it? Might improve those pixel precision movements.
> 
> Many people prefer hard pads because of that.


Not at all what I meant. Unless you were joking of course. Hard to tell with smileys sometimes.

I'm not saying that the weight is going to make or break a player. What I'm saying is there is a distinction between what is good or acceptable and what is optimal. For some people this is different, but there is a general consensus that past a certain point weight can impede individual performance to whatever extent it may be.

As for the pros you mention, there are pros that use laser sensors with acceleration. That doesn't mean they're not going against the grain to get to where they're at. Never mind that the Rival is lighter than the G502 like others have pointed out, and that many people have said they consider that mouse heavy too, but how many of those pros use the Rival and are not being paid to do so? And how many of them would not play better, even by a marginal amount, if the mouse was identical in shape and sensor performance but was considerably lighter? To my recollection, lighter mice like Zowies seem to be much more popular among the pro gamers not sponsored by Steelseries.

And I have not tried a hard pad to see if it helps with the G502 weight. I imagine it would help a bit but all the cloth pads I have on hand are fairly fast already.


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> 10 grams more makes a mouse useless for competitive gaming?
> 
> Rival -> (suposed) 108-110 grams
> G400 -> 104 grams
> MX518 -> 107 grams
> DA2013 -> 105 grams
> 
> These are some cases of fairly equivalent mices in weight compared to the g502 (11-16 gr dif)
> 
> Yet these are top of the class competitive grade mice and the g502 is a useless brick


When did I say the mouse was useless for competitive gameplay?


----------



## InVicT2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> When did I say the mouse was useless for competitive gameplay?


When did i quote or refer any of my replies towards you?
This weight discussion is due to xmr1's home made review.

People these days.


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> When did i quote or refer any of my replies towards you?
> This weight discussion is due to xmr1's home made review.
> 
> People these days.


Actually you did quote my post, don't know if by mistake.


----------



## InVicT2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> Actually you did quote my post, don't know if by mistake.


I did quote one of your coments, but the coment was never meant for you, but regarding xmr1's post.
If you feel that i said something you didnt or offended you on any way , i never had an intention of doing that.

I think what he said about mice needing to be 30 to 50 grams lighter to be optimal, was an exaggeration so i replied with another exaggeration(the brick coment)

Lets think about it, if he feels like a mouse needs to be at least 30 g lighter than the g502 he feels like the heaviest mouse to have "optimal performance" in his eyes need to be arround 90 grams right?

The thing that proves that statment is wrong, at least for everyone else looking at competitive play, is that half the mice used weight in more than 100 grams.
Being sponsored is one thing, but i dont believe any player would cut his own legs, to play with a sponsored mouse if they feel like is mediocre.
Their jobs are on the line. If people spam g400s, da 2013's senseis and even old da's 3.5 , and they all weight in more than 100 grams, it means arround 110 grams is perfectly fine in a competitive level, and i dont feel like 10 grams more changes that.

For me, between 90 to 128 grams is perfectly acceptable AND OPTIMAL, and i think people got used to zowie mice too much and thats maybe why they think suddenly the g502 is such a heavy mouse.

I respect xmr1 point of view but i dont have to agree with it.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> When did i quote or refer any of my replies towards you?
> This weight discussion is due to xmr1's home made review.
> 
> People these days.


I never said it was "useless for gaming" or a "useless brick" either so I'm not sure how that entered the discussion. I haven't read every page though so maybe there were a few people going that far.


----------



## InVicT2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> I never said it was "useless for gaming" or a "useless brick" either so I'm not sure how that entered the discussion. I haven't read every page though so maybe there were a few people going that far.


I already explained that in my previous post.
Just going to leave this here:





Every mouse here is heavier than your "recomended" 90 grams except the zowie mice (2).


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> I already explained that in my previous post.


Yeah I was replying at the same time so didn't see it. Nothing further to discuss with that one. I've already addressed the pro argument but without all the strawman and hyperbole.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

As it pertains to weight, when I get my hands on this mouse, I'm going to be sticking every possible weight in it. I love me a heavy mouse. I thought the M90 was a little light for my tastes, I mean right now I have my G500 with 6 4.5g weights in it, and its not heavy enough for me.

I still want to see a person play (I say this metaphorically, mainly because it will probably look more like flailing) a game at 12,000DPI on this mouse. SHOW ME! lol.


----------



## InVicT2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> As it pertains to weight, when I get my hands on this mouse, I'm going to be sticking every possible weight in it. I love me a heavy mouse. I thought the M90 was a little light for my tastes, I mean right now I have my G500 with 6 4.5g weights in it, and its not heavy enough for me.
> 
> I still want to see a person play (I say this metaphorically, mainly because it will probably look more like flailing) a game at 12,000DPI on this mouse. SHOW ME! lol.


Dayum you felt the m90 a little light? thats a 150grams mouse that is too much for me xD


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> I already explained that in my previous post.
> Just going to leave this here:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every mouse here is heavier than your "recomended" 90 grams except the zowie mice (2).


The mice I liked best were Abyssus and Kana V2, both a bit above 70g. When trying out the CM Storm Recon for a week, I liked the shape, materials, buttons and sensor a lot, but I really couldn't play with it because of the weight, had to go back to my normal mice. It's around 100g and is too much for me.

I also actually have RSI problems in my hand and arm so that's not just a joke about the weight being too much. I guess I should start lifting and getting a bit ripped before trying the G502 (I will definitely try the mouse soon).

Just wanted to report that there are people like me.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> Just going to leave this here:


LOL the first guy is a boor, with a chewingum during interview....and he plays with a DA2013 full of smoothness!!!!!11!!!!!111!!!!1!11


----------



## InVicT2009

I guess you cant call that an interview . I had a da 2013 and didnt felt anything, and i have a 120 hz monitor i guess some people dont feel it.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> I guess you cant call that an interview . I had a da 2013 and didnt felt anything, and i have a 120 hz monitor i guess some people dont feel it.


well, just joking...and in addition, this:





is using the DA2013 too, awesome....

as I said, i think that we should train more and whine less


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> I guess you cant call that an interview . I had a da 2013 and didnt felt anything, and i have a 120 hz monitor i guess some people dont feel it.
> 
> 
> 
> well, just joking...and in addition, this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> is using the DA2013 too, awesome....
> 
> as I said, i think that we should train more and whine less
Click to expand...

Yupp, and 5/11 windows sens.

People on here just likes to whine like little girls about sensors, but non of them are even close to a professional e-sports career, kinda funny actually


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> The mice I liked best were Abyssus and Kana V2, both a bit above 70g. When trying out the CM Storm Recon for a week, I liked the shape, materials, buttons and sensor a lot, but I really couldn't play with it because of the weight, had to go back to my normal mice. It's around 100g and is too much for me.
> 
> I also actually have RSI problems in my hand and arm so that's not just a joke about the weight being too much. I guess I should start lifting and getting a bit ripped before trying the G502 (I will definitely try the mouse soon).
> 
> Just wanted to report that there are people like me.


RSI has little to do with weight... RSI has a ton to do with posture and how you go about things. Really silly notion that more weight on a mouse will exacerbate RSI, just as silly as people who claim mechanical keyboard switches reduce RSI with typing...


----------



## Upyourbucket

Why can't Logitech make a wired version of the M570? They discontinued our beloved t-bb18.
I am not really happy with Logitech.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> RSI has little to do with weight... RSI has a ton to do with posture and how you go about things. Really silly notion that more weight on a mouse will exacerbate RSI, just as silly as people who claim mechanical keyboard switches reduce RSI with typing...


There's no added pain through the extra weight or whatever you are imagining. It just feels slow and tiring with the heavy mouse. That I'm unable to work through that, I blame on the fact that my arm is somewhat broken (so that's where the RSI issue comes into the argument).


----------



## InVicT2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Yupp, and 5/11 windows sens.
> 
> People on here just likes to whine like little girls about sensors, but non of them are even close to a professional e-sports career, kinda funny actually


Having 5/11 windows is ok as long as he has raw input on cs go.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> As it pertains to weight, when I get my hands on this mouse, I'm going to be sticking every possible weight in it. I love me a heavy mouse. I thought the M90 was a little light for my tastes, I mean right now I have my G500 with 6 4.5g weights in it, and its not heavy enough for me.


are you chuck norris or something?


----------



## fellcbr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> are you chuck norris or something?


Do you even lift?


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Yupp, and 5/11 windows sens.
> 
> People on here just likes to whine like little girls about sensors, but non of them are even close to a professional e-sports career, kinda funny actually


kind of funny that you think you know how good people on these forums are.


----------



## Carniflex

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Yupp, and 5/11 windows sens.
> 
> People on here just likes to whine like little girls about sensors, but non of them are even close to a professional e-sports career, kinda funny actually


It is similar in any sport direction I believe. I mean that pro's are training their ass off to be where they are all the while those doing it as a hobby fret over the nyacnes of their equipment and if it makes them "better" or not. I believe that it does not matter what mice you have if you are training 8 to 12h a day with it, even if it's just the 3 EUR logitech black optical with that red light under it the one who has been training 8h a day will have an advantage over the guy with his latest and greatest 125 EUR perfect sensor emperor-of-all-gaming-mice with custom cover molded specifically by the guys hand - if all the guy can commit for training is an hour in the evenings.

For all practical purposes ~ 50 gr difference is pretty much negligible. It will just feel awkward at first if you are used to some other weight. If you are used some specific weight in your mouse you can feel even very small weight differences when you pick up another mouse. For example, I just switched to G700s from G700 and I could feel that G700s is slightly lighter and it felt a bit odd at first. I have also went in the past from G5 with full cartridge of weights in it to an "empty" G5 and a little while later back and no matter what direction you go it feels wrong at first if you are used to some specific weight and balance. All that out of the way mice are pretty personal things and it is quite subjective at the end of a day what _feels_ best for someone.


----------



## hza

First it was the sensor that shouldn't work. Now it's the weight that isn't optimal. Looking forward to the next claim wars.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> First it was the sensor that shouldn't work. Now it's the weight that isn't optimal. Looking forward to the next claim wars.


120 grams is up there.


----------



## Amperial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> Yupp, and 5/11 windows sens.
> 
> People on here just likes to whine like little girls about sensors, but non of them are even close to a professional e-sports career, kinda funny actually


Yo, not everyone has no job like the top cs:go players.
They are playing like atleast 6 hours straight. I remember watching a youtube video where a top team.. not sure which one it was Na'Vi or NiP, whatever played from 12:00 until 24:00 every day.

There are for sure players around who could reach their skill level with more freetime. The more you invest in gaming the better you will get.
Afterall our eSports scene is a joke compared to Korea's and not worth giving up everything just for the sake of gaming.

Anyway.. the most important thing for me is high malfunction speed. Else i can forget playing any FPS.
I am already satisfied with my Rival & the 3310 sensor. Getting the G502 just because it might have a slightly better sensor is nonsens especially it being **** shape/weight wise.


----------



## metal571

Some of us actually are e-sports participants.

Not me though, I just have a lot of experience, some of which has been spent playing with other pros but not participating in a league on a team myself.


----------



## Atavax

Isn't Superior one of the better cs go players in new zealand or australia?

I've beaten a sponsored player at a LAN and i've been flown to a Studio to give esports feedback on a shooter in beta.


----------



## Blashyrkh

I've been playing Crysis 3 for 2 months, so i'm still an amateur even if I played single player games for more than 15 years.

I made a couple of videos to show some people that i do not cheat, and i don't understand why someone would think that because i'm not that good.











if you want watch and comment them, with advices on how I could improve myself


----------



## Axaion

Lets just agree that you dont actually need to be a pro gamer to be on the same level as pro gamer
There is the matter of luck and connections in finding a top team, as im sure you know.

Just too bad that they killed 1.6 :*(


----------



## bushzyxx

Anyone here tried 1600 dpi on it? I'd like to know if it's native or recalculated.


----------



## metal571

All the CPI steps should be native.


----------



## FredgHar

Can some1 give link where i can find why this sensor is so amazing? wentn few pages back but dont have whole night to look for right post...


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FredgHar*
> 
> Can some1 give link where i can find why this sensor is so amazing? wentn few pages back but dont have whole night to look for right post...


All you need to know is:
max PCS: 7.62 m/s / 300 IPS
12000 CPI NATIVE max
IR-LED
no acceleration whatsoever
no smoothing at all not even r0ach sensed any


----------



## FredgHar

lol hard to belive. mouse from such company with no smoothing AND no jitter(almost as i've seen SS from INO test) also no accel.

Too good to be true. Where is the catch?


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FredgHar*
> 
> lol hard to belive. mouse from such company with no smoothing AND no jitter(almost as i've seen SS from INO test) also no accel.
> 
> Too good to be true. Where is the catch?


The catch is the shell its in, for a lot of people, that includes weight..

Good sensor and buttons though.


----------



## majnu

Anyone from the UK found stock of these yet?


----------



## mfc9x

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> All you need to know is:
> max PCS: 7.62 m/s / 300 IPS
> 12000 CPI NATIVE max
> IR-LED
> no acceleration whatsoever
> no smoothing at all not even r0ach sensed any


Doesn't the 3310 have 0 accel and smoothing as well?


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bushzyxx*
> 
> Anyone here tried 1600 dpi on it? I'd like to know if it's native or recalculated.


I used to use 1600DPI @ 1920x1200, now I use 1800 @ 2560x1440 since I needed to up it a bit for the higher resolution. Like stated though, and 100 increment is native and will track flawlessly.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FredgHar*
> 
> lol hard to belive. mouse from such company with no smoothing AND no jitter(almost as i've seen SS from INO test) also no accel.
> 
> Too good to be true. Where is the catch?


The catch is that the grip really only caters to palm+claw hybrid grips. Fingertip grippers will find it too long and heavy, and a lot of full palm grippers will end up with their thumb hitting the sniper button - which can be unassigned or bound to something else, but would still annoy you. With my relatively far back palm grip(long hands) the mouse shape is damn near perfect for me. The base of my fingers are right by the "G" logo (whose ricer blue glow can thankfully can be turned off) and the bottom of the mouse is right at the middle of my palm. If I full palm it so the base of the mouse is on the bottom of my palm, my thumb ends up almost directly on the sniper button.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> All you need to know is:
> max PCS: 7.62 m/s / 300 IPS
> 12000 CPI NATIVE max
> IR-LED
> no acceleration whatsoever
> no smoothing at all not even r0ach sensed any


Is IR-LED conventionally called "optical senesor"?

Also regarding the max IPS, have you seen any one got more than 6m/s ?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mfc9x*
> 
> Doesn't the 3310 have 0 accel and smoothing as well?


True, at least I don't feel any smoothing with it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Is IR-LED conventionally called "optical senesor"?
> 
> Also regarding the max IPS, have you seen any one got more than 6m/s ?


I haven't seen a true test of it because most people don't have arms that can move that fast on this forum LOL


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> All you need to know is:
> max PCS: 7.62 m/s / 300 IPS
> 12000 CPI NATIVE max
> IR-LED
> no acceleration whatsoever
> no smoothing at all not even r0ach sensed any


THE cure for r0ach was found? No *****? Holy cow, that's like finding the Holy Grail. Unbelievable!


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> THE cure for r0ach was found? No *****? Holy cow, that's like finding the Holy Grail. Unbelievable!


That's what I said lmao. Yeah in his review he holds the sensor in high regard. I thought that was impossible.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Is IR-LED conventionally called "optical senesor"?
> 
> Also regarding the max IPS, have you seen any one got more than 6m/s ?


I got 6.75m/s in Entous with it.


----------



## yogalD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Is IR-LED conventionally called "optical senesor"?


Older optical sensors usually have a bright red LED light, infrared just means the light isn't visible so you won't see a bright red light under the mouse.


----------



## Amperial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> That's what I said lmao. Yeah in his review he holds the sensor in high regard. I thought that was impossible.


Yeah, pleasing r0ach was a task none could handle.
The 3366 has to receive the r0ach award. Someone please pshop one.

r0ach approved mouse.


----------



## mousefan

OK I will test this mouse soon. I have got further informations later and now I know more about it.

The freaking **** is, I gotta test this mouse with my ******* weak side cause mother******* logitech doesn't give a single **** about lefties if they create those technical groundbreaking hardwareunits.

but **** them, i will test it.

no question mousefan always needs and earns the best mouse to date. XD


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mousefan*
> 
> OK I will test this mouse soon. I have got further informations later and now I know more about it.
> 
> The freaking **** is, I gotta test this mouse with my ******* weak side cause mother******* logitech doesn't give a single **** about lefties if they create those technical groundbreaking hardwareunits.
> 
> but **** them, i will test it.
> 
> no question mousefan always needs and earns the best mouse to date. XD


That's more like the spirit I was expecting from you


----------



## Christian01

hello everyone, just registered to ask, i'm using G500 and it's really heavy for me and little uncomfortable, causing pain sometimes in pinkie finger and wrist and i'm thinking about buying Logitech G502 but need to know if G502 is equal in weight with G500 (without adding weight) or lighter? I was really comfortable with MX518 but I want all the features of G500, which are in G502. thanks.


----------



## semantics

approx weight without cord.
G500 is about 120g
G502 is about 120g
MX518 is about 110g
The G500 and G502 are very similar in shape and size, the MX518 was slightly smaller and a more similar shape to the G500. Really just depends if weight is the real reason for the extra stress, the G502 has a better grip on the right side and is slightly different shaped on the right side which may be positive. It may very well just how you grip it is bad for you, I use a G9x fingertips only with added weight 14g in the back to push the balance of the mouse further back and more to where my fingers grip the back of the mouse, i never feel any strain.


----------



## teeg

Anyone think it'd be possible to put the sensor or PCP into another mouse?

The sensor performance seems pretty impressive, but the actual mouse looks like a joke.


----------



## CeeSA

Shure it is possible. Just a matter of effort / time. Also it is a question how many buttons you would like to "move".


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teeg*
> 
> Anyone think it'd be possible to put the sensor or PCP into another mouse?
> 
> The sensor performance seems pretty impressive, but the actual mouse looks like a joke.


I hope they put that sensor in a better shaped/weighted mouse.


----------



## InVicT2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teeg*
> 
> Anyone think it'd be possible to put the sensor or PCP into another mouse?
> 
> The sensor performance seems pretty impressive, but the actual mouse looks like a joke.


Most of this forum is pretty impressive, but this actual comment looks like a joke.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> Most of this forum is pretty impressive, but this actual comment looks like a joke.


His comment and opinion is shared by many others. The G502 is a gimmick filled overly heavy mouse with an amazing sensor.

The wireless sensei is significantly lighter than the empty wired G502. A wired mouse should never weigh more than a wireless mouse because of battery weight.


----------



## Atavax

just remember one man's gimmick is another man's treasure. You think the buttons, and weight management system are gimmicks and the sensor is amazing; someone else will think the sensor is a gimmick and the buttons and weight management system are amazing.


----------



## InVicT2009

One thing is expressing an opinion another is making a statment , saying that the shape is a joke is making a statment.

People in this topic have been making statments about subjective topics , as you said weight or/and shape are not for everyone, thats why you shouldnt run in a forum shouting this mouse is crap or shape is a joke because it dosent fit your hand, or because you are used to play with zowie mice that are made with bubblewraping..
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> His comment and opinion is shared by many others. The G502 is a gimmick filled overly heavy mouse with an amazing sensor.
> 
> The wireless sensei is significantly lighter than the empty wired G502. A wired mouse should never weigh more than a wireless mouse because of battery weight.


Most of wireless mice weight in more than 140 grams, props to steelseries, glad you have a 1 gram lighter mouse than the g502 that is wireless, with one laser sensor that as been bashed in this forum over and over.

I guess the 1 gram less makes up for it








oh and it costs almost twice as much









I mean, i get people dont get used to the shape , to the weight, but saying anything in this mouse is a joke is a joke itself.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> One thing is expressing an opinion another is making a statment , saying that the shape is a joke is making a statment.
> 
> People in this topic have been making statments about subjective topics , as you said weight or/and shape are not for everyone, thats why you shouldnt run in a forum shouting this mouse is crap or shape is a joke because it dosent fit your hand, or because you are used to play with zowie mice that are made with bubblewraping..


And all he did was express his feelings towards the mouse.
Something that are very much okey.

I also share his feelings.
Great sensor, the rest is a joke.


----------



## Atavax

It has a weight management system. having a 120gram+ mouse and claiming to have a weight management system by allowing you to add even more weight to the mouse is a little bit of a joke imo. Is kind of like a restaurant saying you get to chose the size of your steak, but you go there and the smallest size they will do is 24oz.


----------



## InVicT2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> It has a weight management system. having a 120gram+ mouse and claiming to have a weight management system by allowing you to add even more weight to the mouse is a little bit of a joke imo. Is kind of like a restaurant saying you get to chose the size of your steak, but the smallest size they will do is 24oz.


A joke was people playing with 105+ grams mice since the dawn of time , and suddenly cant handle 15 more grams or so.
THAT is a joke, the same way people bash this mouse, some love it.
The same way there are people playing with 70 gram mice there are people playing with m90s and finding them light.
People dont like the g502 shape , yet many people love the g400 and mx518 one witch is identical.

I mean a noob comes here reads all this hate towards the mouse they go home running to buy a sensei wireless. LOL
You can all have the opinions you want you have the right to do that , but as i said one thing is expressing and opinion by saying i dont like this, it isnt that good for me it dosent fit my hand, i dont like the astethics, other is saying the mouse is a joke the mouse is crap it sucks.

Its the last word you will see from me regarding this specific topic, i gain nothing writing this, other than expressing a point, and i dont think its worth, considering all this nonsense


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> A joke was people playing with 105+ grams mice since the dawn of time , and in a matter suddenly cant handle 15 more grams or so.
> THAT is a joke, the same way people bash this mouse, some love it.
> The same way there are people playing with 70 gram mice there are people playing with m90s and finding them light.
> People dont like the g502 shape , yet many people love the g400 and mx518 one witch is identical.
> 
> I mean a noob comes here reads all this hate towards the mouse they go home running to buy a sensei wireless. LOL
> You can all have the opinions you want you have the right to do that , but as i said one thing is expressing and opinion by saying i dont like this, it isnt that good for me it dosent fit my hand, i dont like the astethics, other is saying the mouse is a joke the mouse is crap it sucks.
> 
> Its the last word you will see from me regarding this specific topic, i gain nothing writing this, other than expressing a point, and i dont think its worth it considering all this nonsense


who said they can't handle the g502?

people used to say vcr videos looked great, now people say anything below 1080p looks bad. Standards change. Was only like a year ago that Zowie mice had some of the highest max speeds. Now people looking for high max speeds are looking at the mice with the 3310 or 3366 sensors.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> It has a weight management system. having a 120gram+ mouse and claiming to have a weight management system by allowing you to add even more weight to the mouse is a little bit of a joke imo. Is kind of like a restaurant saying you get to chose the size of your steak, but you go there and the smallest size they will do is 24oz.


You seem to think weight in itself is bad as if it weighed nothing it be perfect. I use weights in G9x 14g in the back in order to push the balance of the mouse further back where i grip it using only my fingertips and move the mouse only with my fingers. The weight it more useful in adjusting a balance that is tuned for claw and palm grips into a fingertip balance. How much weight matters much more to people lift up their mouse to play. If you can play at a dpi so you never have to lift up your mouse what's the problem with the weight as long as it glides well. How anemic is everyone here complaining about how much a mouse weighs, get some iron.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> Most of this forum is pretty impressive, but this actual comment looks like a joke.


All mice are jokes for "pure elitist gaming" why do you need a scroll wheel. All you need is left click and right click anything else is just fluff. Weapon changes are quicker and more reliable done by keyboard and in turn anything that would require clicking of the 3rd mouse button. If it's not in the way, why does it matter? The only button that may be in the way is the sniper button although you're not suppose to grip on the button but just before it some people may just have hands too large to not claw grip it like that. Palm shouldn't have a problem unless they try to pick up the mouse, if so why you picking up the mouse the mouse has crazy high and reliable dpi set it to work with your environment.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> You seem to think weight in itself is bad as if it weighed nothing it be perfect. I use weights in G9x 14g in the back in order to push the balance of the mouse further back where i grip it using only my fingertips and move the mouse only with my fingers. The weight it more useful in adjusting a balance that is tuned for claw and palm grips into a fingertip balance. How much weight matters much more to people lift up their mouse to play. If you can play at a dpi so you never have to lift up your mouse what's the problem with the weight as long as it glides well. How anemic is everyone here complaining about how much a mouse weighs, get some iron.


saying, when a mouse company claims weight customization and the minimum is over 120g when the norm is probably below about 100-110g, that the weight customization is a bit of a joke does not imply that 0g is the ideal weight.

i used to do landscaping and am fairly built, and i feel fatigue even just using the g100s which is a feather compared to the g502.

If a marathon runner's shoes are 20g lighter then their competition, do you think that won't help him in a marathon? I'm not saying it will make them win. But it making a difference doesn't mean that as you put it so crudely, he needs to "get some iron"


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> saying, when a mouse company claims weight customization and the minimum is over 120g when the norm is probably below about 100-110g, that the weight customization is a bit of a joke does not imply that 0g is the ideal weight.
> 
> i used to do landscaping and am fairly built, and i feel fatigue even just using the g100s which is a feather compared to the g502.
> 
> If a marathon runner's shoes are 20g lighter then their competition, do you think that won't help him in a marathon? I'm not saying it will make them win. But it making a difference doesn't mean that as you put it so crudely, he needs to "get some iron"


Lighter shoes won't help in a competition, marathon running is about running technique how you run and how you pace and pain management without proper technique you'll end up injured, without the ability to continue running even when your chest feel like it's on fire you'll never make it. Lighters shoes won't change this nor will it help in placing. Lighter shoes won't help you sprint faster in the same right, grippier shoes, cleats will help but lighter shoes not so much. Sprinting is about pounding your foot into the ground extra weight in the shoes have a small effect mostly in the inertia of the shoes when your leg strides forward but then is immedaily directed back down into the ground.

But in either way you're complaining about something that has a miniscule effect on performance and when you're dealing with miniscule effects you're talking about preferences.

Could lighter shoes affect a person psychologically which also affects their performance because they have been told that's better absolutely.


----------



## Atavax

i know at least in cycling that minute decreases in weight has a very large impact over long distances.

In gaming, i know for certain that mouse weight has a very real impact on the length and intensity i can play at before fatigue starts settling in and effecting the quality of my performance.

I doubt you know enough about competitive marathons or in esports to know the effects small differences in weight has on the competitor at all.


----------



## Mastoras78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> A joke was people playing with 105+ grams mice since the dawn of time , and suddenly cant handle 15 more grams or so.
> THAT is a joke, the same way people bash this mouse, some love it.
> The same way there are people playing with 70 gram mice there are people playing with m90s and finding them light.
> People dont like the g502 shape , yet many people love the g400 and mx518 one witch is identical.
> 
> I mean a noob comes here reads all this hate towards the mouse they go home running to buy a sensei wireless. LOL
> You can all have the opinions you want you have the right to do that , but as i said one thing is expressing and opinion by saying i dont like this, it isnt that good for me it dosent fit my hand, i dont like the astethics, other is saying the mouse is a joke the mouse is crap it sucks.
> 
> Its the last word you will see from me regarding this specific topic, i gain nothing writing this, other than expressing a point, and i dont think its worth, considering all this nonsense


Well, when i first joined this forum i had the impression most of posters do not exagerrate and they provide reliable subjective feedback. That was sooo wrong by me. The amount of hate and ignorance by wannabe elitists who most of the times haven't even test a product, sadly, is the rule.

However you can still find valuable information and 'A grade' posters with common sense and maturity. Just filter the provided info harder and try to ignore whatever makes you multiple facepalm yourself.

About the noob who comes here and read as you pointed, unfortunatelly you cant do much to help him.. he should rely on his personal judgement

Sorry for my bad english


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i know at least in cycling that minute decreases in weight has a very large impact over long distances.
> 
> In gaming, i know for certain that mouse weight has a very real impact on the length and intensity i can play at before fatigue starts settling in and effecting the quality of my performance.
> 
> I doubt you know enough about competitive marathons or in esports to know the effects small differences in weight has on the competitor at all.


So you know enough about esports to tell us how small differences in weight has on the competitor. Then why bother giving a bad analogy in something you're not an expert in; your word alone should be enough. To top this off you enforce this by telling us that weight affects you. So thus for it to effect esports you have to be esports. Again either you're telling us a preference or you're telling us a generalization. All of this hinges on that you'd have to be in esports so your preference can be perceived as a generalization.

Else your claims would be just as meaningless than mine. Btw i run a half-marathon twice a year, weight of the shoe has no effect on my time i still run it in about and hour and half and some change, 7 min a mile. There are a long list of things i rather have right than the weight of my shoes that have much bigger impact to my time. I don't run full marathons as you're risking injury much more the longer you run.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> who said they can't handle the g502?
> 
> people used to say vcr videos looked great, now people say anything below 1080p looks bad. Standards change. Was only like a year ago that Zowie mice had some of the highest max speeds. Now people looking for high max speeds are looking at the mice with the 3310 or 3366 sensors.


He meant trolls like Nivity who can't be objective even for a second. You know, that kind of people who think everything they don't like or need is ****, but yeah. Zowie/Mionix/SteelSeries mice are so great, just their qc suxx ballz


----------



## InVicT2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mastoras78*
> 
> Well, when i first joined this forum i had the impression most of posters do not exagerrate and they provide reliable subjective feedback. That was sooo wrong by me. The amount of hate and ignorance by wannabe elitists who most of the times haven't even test a product, sadly, is the rule.
> 
> However you can still find valuable information and 'A grade' posters with common sense and maturity. Just filter the provided info harder and try to ignore whatever makes you multiple facepalm yourself.
> 
> About the noob who comes here and read as you pointed, unfortunatelly you cant do much to help him.. he should rely on his personal judgement
> 
> Sorry for my bad english


My english is worse, very rusty, i know this forum has people with insight, thats why i joined i love research and we can learn so much more.

Semantics just completed what i said in the earlier posts, i guess he is starting to get tired by now







.

Information is a powerfull tool, so are words and these days people write before they think, and then we have to explain over and over the same thing.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> So you know enough about esports to tell us how small differences in weight has on the competitor. Then why bother giving a bad analogy in something you're not an expert in; your word alone should be enough. To top this off you enforce this by telling us that weight affects you. So thus for it to effect esports you have to be esports. Again either you're telling us a preference or you're telling us a generalization. All of this hinges on that you'd have to be in esports so your preference can be perceived as a generalization.
> 
> Else your claims would be just as meaningless than mine. Btw i run a half-marathon twice a year, weight of the shoe has no effect on my time i still run it in about and hour and half and some change, 7 min a mile. There are a long list of things i rather have right than the weight of my shoes that have much bigger impact to my time. I don't run full marathons as you're risking injury much more the longer you run.


you said people must be anemic to have a problem with heavier mouse. I pointed out that i have had a job that is fairly physically demanding and that heavier mice have a noticeable effect on the length of time it takes to be fatigued for myself. I don't need to have esports experience for you to be proven wrong. You're right, it is a preference, but it is the preference of a reasonably fit individual when you argued that people that have a problem with heavier mice weren't fit. That is why you appear to not know what you're talking about. I did not claim there is something physically wrong with people that have a different opinion about weight then myself, like you did.


----------



## Ricey20

You guys are getting a little too touchy about a mouse. I used to be a competitive CS 1.6 player(cal-i, regular tournaments) and team ranked #2 in WCG for my state. I've used various mice with different weights and honestly, it didn't make much of a difference. At the same time I've talked to other comp CS player friends and some complained about heavy mice affecting their endurance. Same went for those i knew who played in SC2 competitions and tourneys on a regular basis. The weight of a mouse, even to those who are competitive, is totally subjective. You guys are arguing over opinions and it's not helping this thread at all. If the shape (also subjective) and weight isn't to your liking then just don't buy it, or at least try it out and if it really is that bad for you then return it and wait patiently for the next mouse. They aren't going to change what they already have in development for a few forum people with opinions. It's fine to state your opinion but when you start trying to shove it down people's throats like it was a fact then that's not cool (not pointing at anyone, just saying).


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> who said they can't handle the g502?
> 
> people used to say vcr videos looked great, now people say anything below 1080p looks bad. Standards change. Was only like a year ago that Zowie mice had some of the highest max speeds. Now people looking for high max speeds are looking at the mice with the 3310 or 3366 sensors.
> 
> 
> 
> He meant trolls like Nivity who can't be objective even for a second. You know, that kind of people who think everything they don't like or need is ****, but yeah. Zowie/Mionix/SteelSeries mice are so great, just their qc suxx ballz
Click to expand...

You are also not very smart









I say the everything else is bad because It is bad for ME.
I don't talk about everyone else, for my needs It is BAD.

Get it now?

And unlike most of the people here I actually buy and try the mice I talk about, so many just talk about mice without even trying them first. That is troll if anything.


----------



## Shockarn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> saying, when a mouse company claims weight customization and the minimum is over 120g when the norm is probably below about 100-110g, that the weight customization is a bit of a joke does not imply that 0g is the ideal weight.
> 
> i used to do landscaping and am fairly built, and i feel fatigue even just using the g100s which is a feather compared to the g502.
> 
> If a marathon runner's shoes are 20g lighter then their competition, do you think that won't help him in a marathon? I'm not saying it will make them win. But it making a difference doesn't mean that as you put it so crudely, he needs to "get some iron"


I don't get how 121g can be such a big deal? I have rat7 with all the weights and it's 171g, i have no problem playing all day...
I also looked up the top 2 csgo teams, they had a tournament couple of days ago and nip won against virtus in the grand final.

Code:



Code:


NIP

forest          Kinzu v2 77g
get_right       Rival    128g
friberg         Rival    128g
xizt            Ikari    103g
fifflaren       Rival    128g

Total                    564g

Virtus Pro

Taz             Rival    128g
Neo             Zowie FK 85g
Pasha           Kinzu    77g
Snax            Zowie FK 85g
Byali           Zowie AM 88g

Total                    463g

Clearly VP should have won because nip had such a heavy disadvantage


----------



## Carniflex

Well - I'm sure that if the mouse would be just 50g there would be about the same amount of people complaining about the weight as currently







By the similar sentiment you can find people in mech keyboard threads to whom the 20g difference in actuation force is all the difference in the world. Thats what it happens to be the difference between red/brown/ etc against black/clear/ etc MX switches. And you definitely can feel the difference if you are used to one of them. Reds can feel unnaturally light and black can feel stiff as hell if you come from the other switch type. But at the end of the day it does not matter if you get used to the "new" feeling in few weeks.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nivity*
> 
> You are also not very smart
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I say the everything else is bad because It is bad for ME.
> I don't talk about everyone else, for my needs It is BAD.
> 
> Get it now?
> 
> And unlike most of the people here I actually buy and try the mice I talk about, so many just talk about mice without even trying them first. That is troll if anything.


I must be really sorry since I misunderstood.


----------



## Blashyrkh

128g for the rival with or without cable?


----------



## xmr1

The Rival is about 20 grams less than its advertised weight, as someone posted a few pages back. NiP is also sponsored by Steelseries and the Rival has by far the best sensor of their offerings. Those guys have to pick their poison between accel, prediction, or some weight. VP also beat NiP at a larger tournament about a month ago, but that's besides the point.

Anyone talking about the weight being a huge disadvantage, from either side of the argument, is not being genuine to the discussion. Obviously 20g is not going to turn a pro player into a bot, just as using accel (GeT_RiGhT for a long time), or prediction (f0rest, pasza as listed above) will not ruin a player. Mouse discussion is all about nitpicking and finding marginal gains.

The root of the weight topic is more that if everything else was equal (shape, sensor, etc.), would a competitive player play better, for longer, with a lighter mouse? Even if it is a 1% difference.


----------



## Arc0s




----------



## majnu

@CPate when will UK be getting stock and what is the RRP?


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> A joke was people playing with 105+ grams mice since the dawn of time , and suddenly cant handle 15 more grams or so.


for what should i handle 15g more?

the disadvanted of 15g more in weight, outweighs any gain by the "perfect sensor" by far compared to other optical sensors.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shockarn*
> 
> I don't get how 121g can be such a big deal? I have rat7 with all the weights and it's 171g, i have no problem playing all day...
> I also looked up the top 2 csgo teams, they had a tournament couple of days ago and nip won against virtus in the grand final.
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> NIP
> 
> forest          Kinzu v2 77g
> get_right       Rival    128g
> friberg         Rival    128g
> xizt            Ikari    103g
> fifflaren       Rival    128g
> 
> Total                    564g
> 
> Virtus Pro
> 
> Taz             Rival    128g
> Neo             Zowie FK 85g
> Pasha           Kinzu    77g
> Snax            Zowie FK 85g
> Byali           Zowie AM 88g
> 
> Total                    463g
> 
> Clearly VP should have won because nip had such a heavy disadvantage


The Rival actually weights about 20g less then advertised without cable. So its actually below 110g. And every competitive gamer on that list is using a mouse that weighs less then 110g. And the G502 which shows off a weight customization system, even at its lightest is above 120g.

as for why you don't have a problem, i would guess you use a relatively high sensitivity.

Different people consider different weights appropriate. The Purpose of the weight system is allow you to get the mouse to a weight you enjoy. The g502's minimal weight however is still far above what is a normal weight. Very few wired mouse have a weight not including the wire that is above 110g with many mice below 100g, or even below 90 or 80g. The minimal weight of the g502 is over 120g not including the wire. That understandably makes the weight system seem like a joke for many because the minimum weight is still well above what most people are used to. Instead of giving people the ability to chose between having a light, average, or heavy mouse; it gives you the option of a heavy mouse or a super heavy mouse.


----------



## Shockarn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> The Rival actually weights about 20g less then advertised without cable. So its actually below 110g. And every competitive gamer on that list is using a mouse that weighs less then 110g. And the G502 which shows off a weight customization system, even at its lightest is above 120g.
> 
> as for why you don't have a problem, i would guess you use a relatively high sensitivity.
> 
> Different people consider different weights appropriate. The Purpose of the weight system is allow you to get the mouse to a weight you enjoy. The g502's minimal weight however is still far above what is a normal weight. Very few wired mouse have a weight not including the wire that is above 110g with many mice below 100g, or even below 90 or 80g. The minimal weight of the g502 is over 120g not including the wire. That understandably makes the weight system seem like a joke for many because the minimum weight is still well above what most people are used to. Instead of giving people the ability to chose between having a light, average, or heavy mouse; it gives you the option of a heavy mouse or a very heavy mouse.


It's just about getting used to the weight, i won't get 171g that i'm used to. G502 is only about 139g with all weights but after a couple of days it will be like I've always played with it.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shockarn*
> 
> It's just about getting used to the weight, i won't get 171g that i'm used to. G502 is only about 139g with all weights but after a couple of days it will be like I've always played with it.


I used to get free Deathadders whenever i needed one. For years i used that mouse. When i finally switched to the zowie ec2 evo cl, the weight difference was substantial, but i almost immediately was able to adjust and i quite enjoyed the change in weight. I tried the g502 for over a week while i could get used to it to a degree, it never felt as good as moving the ec2 evo or the g100s. I would guess you just are used to playing at a higher sensitivity and because you move your hand less, you have an easier time with heavier mice.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shockarn*
> 
> It's just about getting used to the weight, i won't get 171g that i'm used to. G502 is only about 139g with all weights but after a couple of days it will be like I've always played with it.


What people are getting at is that high weight of a mouse is especially a hinderance at low sens. I too would guess that you use high sens, because 170g at my typical swipes would actually be kind of a workout.

If I had time now I'd try to calculate the energy needed for a standard swipe at 3 m/s with both an FK and a G502


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Coming from the FK to G502 was a little different at first. I like both the FK and G502 shape, but I don't love them. In my opinion the best shape mouse I've held was the Mamba, disregarding the sensor obviously.

As far as the weight goes, yea it's more, I don't really have an issue. I'm not a 90lb frail woman, a few more grams isn't going to tucker my arm out, but to each his own. Played some Battlefield, Titanfall, Diablo this weekend for way too long and didn't get any "fatigue". Using the mouse at 800dpi currently, coming from [email protected], 800dpi feels almost too fast now, might drop it down some.


----------



## dontspamme

I have only had time to read the last 10 or so pages. So I don't know if this has come up before or not:
But have Logitech said anything about putting this little gem of a sensor in other mice in the near future?


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dontspamme*
> 
> I have only had time to read the last 10 or so pages. So I don't know if this has come up before or not:
> But have Logitech said anything about putting this little gem of a sensor in other mice in the near future?


Logitech's product manager (CPate) said he wasn't allowed to comment on that kind of stuff.

But I don't see why they wouldn't. I think it's more a question of when than if.


----------



## DivineDark

Well, I bit the bullet this weekend and picked up the G502 at Best Buy so I could put it through it's paces. I figured it would be all wrong for me, but the sensor absolutely grabbed me and drew me in.

*Unboxing* - Great box, very small, not too elaborate.

*First Impression* - This is where I was really blown away. The mouse is nowhere NEAR as big as it is made out to be in pictures. It was slimmer than my Avior and about as long. It didn't feel as tall, but that may have been the fact that the G502 doesn't have the hump at the back that hits my palm. Overall it was pretty damn compact. Of course, I was expecting a G500 shaped brick when I started. The weight was perfectly acceptable for me. I didn't even give it a second thought, actually.

*The Buttons* - MB1 and MB2 felt great. They required light to medium pressure and had a well defined click. The G buttons to the left of MB1 felt fine and were out of the way while still being functional. MB4 and MB5 are an odd shape, but the click is reminiscent of the side buttons of the G400. MB3 had a fantastic click. Something that was lacking on the G9X and G500 free scroll mouse wheels. The Sniper button... I hate them and they should all die... This one is no different. Luckily, unlike the M65 and the RAT mice, the button is out of the way of my grip. I could see the button being functional when remapped to something different, but the sniper feature is useless to me.

*The Scroll Wheel* - This is an area of contention for a lot of people. The two mice that stand out in my mind for having the biggest turds for scroll wheels were the G9X and the G500. They were mass metal wheels with the optional free scroll feature. I expected the exact same out of the G502. I was wrong. They finally fixed everything that I hated about those wheels. The wheel is the proper size, a good weight, feels nice under the finger, and they fixed the clicky function of the non-free wheel mode. It actually feels like a normal mouse wheel. Then the icing on the cake is the MB3 funciton. It's fantastic. I would have to remap MB3 on the G9x and G500 because the button was crap. It was hard to actuate when you wanted to. Not an issue here. Very well done by the Logitech team.

*Setup* - Pretty easy software to get used to. Most know I frikking hate mouse software, so it was going on the PC just long enough to disable the Sniper button.

*Compatibility* - I'm a mouse pad whore about as much as I am a mouse whore. I tried out the following: SS QCK Heavy, Artisan Hayate, Artisan Hein, Puretrack Talent, Zowie G-TF, and the SS 9HD. The mouse worked well on every one. I didn't notice the odd LOD issues that I experience with the 3310 mice on hard pads, and the cursor seemed to be equally responsive across all pads.

*Desktop* - I can definitely feel the quality of the mouse. It has a very similar quality as the Mionix mice. It just feels well engineered. The cursor feels great. Even with my extreme happiness with the 3090 and the 3310 sensors, this sensor feels connected to your hand. Damn near perfect.

*In Game* - As I've stated before I play mostly SC2, BF4, and Dota2. I put the mouse through the paces over the weekend to get a feel for how it would perform. I really couldn't be happier. The mouse is snappy, functional, easy to move, very comfortable, and was a breeze to get used to. I was coming from the Avior 7000 and while that mouse is very impressive, I've found the G502 to actually fit my grip better, perform as well, if not better, and provide some other features that I can take advantage of when the next WoW expansion comes out. I can't really complain about some of the "gimmick" features, as they just stay out of the way unless I need/want them. They aren't like some other mice that pile in a load of useless crap and make them the primary features of the mouse, forsaking actual mouse functionality.

*Conclusion* - I'm happily surprised. Logitech did well. The sensor lives up to expectations in all tests I've run, as well as in game and desktop usage. The shape is very comfortable for the hybrid Claw/palm grip, and I had no trouble keeping up in SC2 and Dota. The mouse is easy to throw around, and played well with every mouse pad I put it on. I continue to hate sniper buttons... This one is no different.

*Major positives* - Shape, buttons, sensor, mouse wheel

*Major negatives* - Sniper button...


----------



## InVicT2009

Wow man you must be a Hercules, or Alexander the great, because those 121 gram mice are heavy as rocks, maybe you are the one who built the egypt, with those abnormal powerfull strong hands of yours.

Now seriously good review well detailed and focusing the critical points , cant wait to get my hands on this mouse.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> Wow man you must be a Hercules, or Alexander the great, because those 121 gram mice are heavy as rocks, maybe you are the one who built the egypt, with those abnormal powerfull strong hands of yours.
> 
> Now seriously good review well detailed and focusing the critical points , cant wait to get my hands on this mouse.


I love me some heavy mice. 121 grams is too light for me. I would buy this, and put all the weights into it. I really cant understand why people like those really light mice.

Also for anyone complaining about the shape just stop, almost every single logitech mouse looks like this, if you didnt like the shape of 1, you wont like the shape of all of them. They build palm/palm-claw hybrid mice, period end of story.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> I love me some heavy mice. 121 grams is too light for me. I would buy this, and put all the weights into it. I really cant understand why people like those really light mice.


I can quote this really old steelseries article from back when I respected the company.
Quote:


> "Feature: Weight systems. The weight of a product can give a feeling of quality. Weight in a gaming product is a preference. However most people highly favor a low weight mouse. And when we say "most people" we actually mean that not a single gamer we asked (out of thousands) felt that an adjustable weight system was anything but useless.
> 
> Problem: The heavier the mouse is, the more strain is put on your arm and especially on your wrist. The weight system itself is fundamentally flawed for serious gaming: even if you remove all weights that came with your killer gaming mice, the mouse will still be heavier than it should have been - simply because the built-in weight system itself adds weight to the mouse. The lower the weight is, the faster the reaction time can be. The lower the weight is, the more control the user has. Why would you want a weight system then?
> 
> Solution: Cut the crap."


I have extensively tested mice from 70-120g over the years and found everything stated here to be accurate. It doesn't matter how fit you are, you're needlessly forcing your arm to do more work than it needs to when you using a low sensitivity that forces you to do large swipes and constantly lift the mouse with your wrist. If you need to be constantly lifting and quickly moving an object around for hours then you want it to be as light as possible, this is very logical reasoning. I haven't heard of a single logical reason as to why you would want that object to be so much heavier.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I can quote this really old steelseries article from back when I respected the company.
> I have extensively tested mice from 70-120g over the years and found everything stated here to be accurate. It doesn't matter how fit you are, you're needlessly forcing your arm to do more work than it needs to when you using a low sensitivity that forces you to do large swipes and constantly lift the mouse with your wrist. If you need to be constantly lifting and quickly moving an object around for hours then you want it to be as light as possible, this is very logical reasoning. I haven't heard of a single logical reason as to why you would want that object to be so much heavier.


Ah the good old SteelSeries. They really should have put a 3090 into the Sensei though, but then the whole 1-CPI granularity thing wouldn't have been possible. Now it is, with the 3310. I'm waiting on that.

The only thing I could possibly think of better than the Sensei is an optical Sensei with a 3310 or a 3366. I would replace my Avior immediately with that if it was ever made.

Anyway, that's off topic but the RAW they got down to 90g on which is impressive for how large it was. If only more people realized that the lighter a mouse, the better. Period.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I can quote this really old steelseries article from back when I respected the company.
> I have extensively tested mice from 70-120g over the years and found everything stated here to be accurate. It doesn't matter how fit you are, you're needlessly forcing your arm to do more work than it needs to when you using a low sensitivity that forces you to do large swipes and constantly lift the mouse with your wrist. If you need to be constantly lifting and quickly moving an object around for hours then you want it to be as light as possible, this is very logical reasoning. I haven't heard of a single logical reason as to why you would want that object to be so much heavier.


As true as most of this stuff is. I've used lighter mice over the years, and it actually strains my arm/wrist to use them. I'm fairly sure its because I would use the same amount of force on them as I would a heavier mouse, then I would have to force myself to stop short. I used a steelseries Sensei a little while ago, I had to sell it because my wrist was getting sore. How fit a person is does matter, it also matters how they are built. I honestly almost never move my wrist (excluding keeping the mouse straight), I use my arm for it. For more precise movements, I use my fingers. I've never had a single problem in 8 years with a heavy mouse.
As for reaction times, that is BS. I can react just as fast as the next guy using a weightless mouse. Also the control thing, I find control with a heavier mouse easier, because it uses a bit more strength to move it, I can be more accurate and not overshoot everything, thus letting me use a higher DPI.


----------



## Malvolg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I haven't heard of a single logical reason as to why you would want that object to be so much heavier.


*Preference.*

Accept it or not, it is a logical reason, regardless of the fact that SteelSeries doesn't see a use for it. Awesome SteelSeries, don't put it in your mice. I use a g502 and I added weight to it; I find it more comfortable and I've gamed with it for probably a dozen hours in the past two days without any strain or fatigue.

I really don't get how individual preference is so hard to understand. Mouse weight isn't something objective like "no acceleration > acceleration" or anything like that. It's every bit as subjective as shape.

If weight isn't an issue, it isn't an issue. It really is that simple.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> *First Impression* - This is where I was really blown away. The mouse is nowhere NEAR as big as it is made out to be in pictures.


That was my first thought as well. I think pictures are a little deceiving because the front of the mouse doesn't round down to the base like a Sensei. The left and right buttons also extend out further than most other mice I've used, but the buttons aren't placed any higher up. So even though it measures on the longer side and there is more mass in the front, the area most users will feel in their hand is fairly typical size or even slightly smaller.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I can quote this really old steelseries article from back when I respected the company.
> I have extensively tested mice from 70-120g over the years and found everything stated here to be accurate. It doesn't matter how fit you are, you're needlessly forcing your arm to do more work than it needs to when you using a low sensitivity that forces you to do large swipes and constantly lift the mouse with your wrist. If you need to be constantly lifting and quickly moving an object around for hours then you want it to be as light as possible, this is very logical reasoning. I haven't heard of a single logical reason as to why you would want that object to be so much heavier.


I use a fingertip only grip and a high dpi on a nearly 10 year old IceMat, i prefer weight systems if they allow me to push the balance point back further to the rear of the mouse. Most mice are balanced for palming a mouse and feel front heavy when gripped by fingers only near the back of the mouse. Good weight systems allow me to shift more of the wear to where my fingers contact makes pivoting less awkward.

That being said i see little benefit of more weights to palm and claw grippers outside of sheer preference in adjusting how much the mouse glides more weight means more friction force less glide. I'm sure they want the center of balance to be where their thumb contacts the mouse which is where most mice are balanced at to begin with so balance isn't really one. But really If i can move around 150+g mice easily with only my fingers for hours how is your arm and wrist getting so strained by extra 50g.

Also you should never move your wrist, proper claw and palm grips would have the palm rest on the mouse and wrist never touch the mousepad and never have to actuate; proper mice allow for this. With that when lifting the mouse your wrist shouldn't have to actuate. If you're going to claim that's silly then how can people left dumbbells for long periods of time without complaining that they are breaking their wrists. Technique proper technique is always the issue.


----------



## teeg

Sorry about posting earlier that this mouse semmed like a joke without any reasoning.

In my opinion most everything about the mouse is a little disappointing for what it's trying to be, yet the sensor's performance seems quite impressive.

The mouse feet seem awkward and overly complicated, like another user posted, two large simple feet like on an FK or Avior is all that's needed. Users here have reported the shape forces one to use claw grip. My previous mice like the FK, Sensei, Deathadder, WMO, can all have multiple grips (comfortably), and they don't market to be customizable like the G502 does. Unnessecary gimmicky buttons. True weight and balance customization to me means starting at a very light weight and being able to adjust to a heavy weight, not heavy to even heavier.

However, adjusting to shape and weight is possible. I've gone from a WMO (75g) to a DA 3500 (120g).

My biggest question and concern before I buy it to try it is if the sensor is indeed as good as some in this thread have said it is. My biggest concerns are prediction, jitter, input response, and speed.

On my FK, there's a very noticable jitter on multiple surfaces from what I believe to be its custom lens. My DA 2013 has a clear input response issue. My WMO is a bit slow in terms of max speed, there's no fast swipes happening like with my FK.

I saw another user's video of an acceleration demonstration and it looked awesome. Can someone confirm these concerns of prediction, jitter, input response, and speed and debunk if they're an issue or not?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ADHDadditiv*
> 
> As true as most of this stuff is. I've used lighter mice over the years, and it actually strains my arm/wrist to use them. I'm fairly sure its because I would use the same amount of force on them as I would a heavier mouse, then I would have to force myself to stop short. I used a steelseries Sensei a little while ago, I had to sell it because my wrist was getting sore. How fit a person is does matter, it also matters how they are built. I honestly almost never move my wrist (excluding keeping the mouse straight), I use my arm for it. For more precise movements, I use my fingers. I've never had a single problem in 8 years with a heavy mouse.
> As for reaction times, that is BS. I can react just as fast as the next guy using a weightless mouse. Also the control thing, I find control with a heavier mouse easier, because it uses a bit more strength to move it, I can be more accurate and not overshoot everything, thus letting me use a higher DPI.


I don't like playing on mouse pads where the mouse glides well, instead prefer some friction. I guess all those downsides of light mouse you mentioned don't feel like they apply to me because of that? I for example remember very well why I started using a mouse pad with higher friction. I tried to fix those problems with control you talk about. The pad with friction helped in trying to be as accurate as possible. At the same time as I was experimenting with different mouse pads, I also had a light mouse and a heavy mouse (Logitech MX300 and MX500). The heavy mouse did not help at all with control.

I really can't see any upside for heavy mice for me.


----------



## Crizzl

Jesus christ could we stop with the whole weight discussion? It's a preference simple as that. Anyway what do you think you're accomplishing with this discussion besides wasting time?


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teeg*
> 
> The mouse feet seem awkward and overly complicated, like another user posted, two large simple feet like on an FK or Avior is all that's needed. Users here have reported the shape forces one to use claw grip. My previous mice like the FK, Sensei, Deathadder, WMO, can all have multiple grips (comfortably), and they don't market to be customizable like the G502 does. Unnessecary gimmicky buttons. True weight and balance customization to me means starting at a very light weight and being able to adjust to a heavy weight, not heavy to even heavier.?


Why is two large simple feet better? In what way does it affect performance? It's the common setup because it's cheap to do. There is free space at the top and bottom of the mouse to place mouse feet so they place it there, larger pads tend to be affected less by gunk gathered at the edges. So as long as the pads are sizable there isn't really an issue in terms of placement or shape of the pads. I don't see this as a valid complaint, it's needless nitpicking.

Gimmicky buttons, is highly subjective. If you're talking pure fps gaming mouse, it would have 2 buttons nothing else. Mouse wheels aren't necessary in games they often are mapped to something that is also mapped to the keyboard and most use the keyboard mapping because it's quicker and doesn't force you to take buttons on fire and aim buttons. So if you claim gimmicky all you claim is you personally don't find a use for certain extra buttons. Some might not find a use for a scrollwheel, hell that's the first thing i try to unbind in games it just gets in the way. Get for general use i'd never buy a mouse without a scrollwheel but pointless in games. Claiming a mouse with more general use buttons means is gimmicky is to claim a preference not a matter of fact.

What you infact want to complain about is the weight and cost. You want it to weigh less and cost less. Logitech's history suggests this comes at a later date.

Logitech used this product to replace it's G500 which had the same feature set minus the sniper button. It's not in Logitech pricing and mouse model to start with the low end and work way up, they always start at high end and trickle down. G100s is 83g mouse that has a weight that can be removed to get it down to a 70g mouse. G400s is a 105g mouse. So you can expect a G102 and G402 at a later date with similar feature sets and similar weights.


----------



## ADHDadditiv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizzl*
> 
> Jesus christ could we stop with the whole weight discussion? It's a preference simple as that. Anyway what do you think you're accomplishing with this discussion besides wasting time?


THIS ENTIRE THREAD IS WAISTING TIME! lol. But seriously, 95% of the stuff in this thread is pointless.


----------



## metal571

A thread exploding with nothing but opinions. We know what the mouse is, we have measurements. Good enough.


----------



## DivineDark

People have the right on this board to voice their opinion. We have one thread set up for it. There have been some solid contributions in this thread. You just have to dig for them.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *teeg*
> 
> Sorry about posting earlier that this mouse semmed like a joke without any reasoning.
> 
> In my opinion most everything about the mouse is a little disappointing for what it's trying to be, yet the sensor's performance seems quite impressive.
> 
> The mouse feet seem awkward and overly complicated, like another user posted, two large simple feet like on an FK or Avior is all that's needed. Users here have reported the shape forces one to use claw grip. My previous mice like the FK, Sensei, Deathadder, WMO, can all have multiple grips (comfortably), and they don't market to be customizable like the G502 does. Unnessecary gimmicky buttons. True weight and balance customization to me means starting at a very light weight and being able to adjust to a heavy weight, not heavy to even heavier.
> 
> However, adjusting to shape and weight is possible. I've gone from a WMO (75g) to a DA 3500 (120g).
> 
> My biggest question and concern before I buy it to try it is if the sensor is indeed as good as some in this thread have said it is. My biggest concerns are prediction, jitter, input response, and speed.
> 
> On my FK, there's a very noticable jitter on multiple surfaces from what I believe to be its custom lens. My DA 2013 has a clear input response issue. My WMO is a bit slow in terms of max speed, there's no fast swipes happening like with my FK.
> 
> I saw another user's video of an acceleration demonstration and it looked awesome. Can someone confirm these concerns of prediction, jitter, input response, and speed and debunk if they're an issue or not?


No problems at all with any jitter, input response or speed or anything else. And should work on most pads right out of the box with 1.2mm LOD. Any issues, you can just tune it for your pad.
Just install the drivers, bind/unbind what buttons you don't want, set the # of DPI steps or DPI you want per profile, save it (saved onboard the mouse memory), and off you go.


----------



## Puck

To reiterate, the sensor in the G502 is as flawless as you will get today.


----------



## FreeElectron

What is the best pad for this mouse?


----------



## Falkentyne

There is no best pad. You can tune the sensor to whatever pad you have. Only thing it won't track on is glass...


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> There is no best pad. You can tune the sensor to whatever pad you have. Only thing it won't track on is glass...


Probably won't track on glass else logitech would slap the dark field label on it. Ionno if anyone tested it on 4mm or thicker glass though, and i'm sure nothing tracks on mirrors.

That being said it being IR optical the best guess is probably just a quality cloth pad would work great. One would assume logitech's cloth pad would be more than adequate, although i'm sure it tracks well on many kinds of surfaces given the sensor tuning. Best tends to be subjective with pads as well as long as the pad doesn't hurt the sensor reliability it comes down what feel a person is looking for.


----------



## Domiro

In the recommendation thread I was recommended the G602 for my needs, sensitvity and grip. Ordering the G602 I noticed the G502 and so I'm curious.

For users of both (Palm grip, medium to high sensitibity), how does the 502 compare to the 602?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domiro*
> 
> In the recommendation thread I was recommended the G602 for my needs, sensitvity and grip. Ordering the G602 I noticed the G502 and so I'm curious.
> 
> For users of both (Palm grip, medium to high sensitibity), how does the 502 compare to the 602?


The main benefit of the 602 is that it's wireless (if you want that), the 502 has a better sensor, especially for low sens users as it tracks up to higher speeds. If you use high sens and need wireless the 602 should be your thing.


----------



## mattavich

I have preordered from the UK last week, I really can't wait to get my hand on this thing to test it out. I've heard nothing about when it will be delivered though.

My best mouse has always been the CM Spawn, but I currently use a xornet. I previously used roccat optical kone, cm recon and g9


----------



## majnu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mattavich*
> 
> I have preordered from the UK last week, I really can't wait to get my hand on this thing to test it out. I've heard nothing about when it will be delivered though.
> 
> My best mouse has always been the CM Spawn, but I currently use a xornet. I previously used roccat optical kone, cm recon and g9


who has them in stock in the UK?

edit - just seen it's available for pre-order on Logitech's site UK. I had a discount code so nabbed it for £50- BARGAIN!


----------



## mattavich

On the subject of heavy/light mice and Sniper Button.

I've always been a hardcore instagib/sniper player and I notice very small details which cause me problems when aiming.

I always try to use the lightest mouse, because it feels easier to move over an enemies head in a quick fashion. So weight does matter, HOWEVER, it only matters that much if the grip of the mouse is inadequate.

With a mouse that is too light where I only have a few pixels to get the headshot I find that the mouse will often shake during clicking which really causes some annoying misses(and lucky headshots).

Adding weight provides stability and smoothness to movements, although its not ideal to have extra weight, it helps with mice that I can't grip adequately.(The only mouse I found to provide enough grip is the cm spawn and g9.

For example, my best mouse overall has to be the roccat pure optical, I really enjoy using that mouse but I found that I just couldn't make the shots, I couldn't claw grip the mouse tight enough and the jitter from clicking because of it was too much. It was too light and too small to be gripped tightly. This is why i'm using a $20 xornet right now.

Lastly, a Sniper button is stupid if you don't use it, however i'm intrigued as my scoped/aiming sensitivity isnt very good for turning quickly, the sniper button may well provide a good solution for this.


----------



## mattavich

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *majnu*
> 
> who has them in stock in the UK?


I used the main logitech site in the UK. http://gaming.logitech.com/en-gb/product/g502-proteus-core-tunable-gaming-mouse

Click pre-order. It did not give me an indication when it will be in stock though, even though i've just paid about $110 for it.


----------



## Ezykill

Just got mine today. Have an issue with the scroll wheel, it does the opposite of what a normal mouse does. When i scroll in forward direction on the mouse, the webpage's (or any window) text etc go upwards on the screen and vice versa. Anyone else have this issue?


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ezykill*
> 
> Just got mine today. Have an issue with the scroll wheel, it does the opposite of what a normal mouse does. When i scroll in forward direction on the mouse, the webpage's (or any window) text etc go upwards on the screen and vice versa. Anyone else have this issue?


if you scroll up, the page goes up? it seems normal to me


----------



## Ezykill

It does the opposite of what a normal mouse does.

Normal mouse: Scroll wheel forward page text moves vertically downwards on screen. Side scroll bar goes up.

My g502: Scroll wheel forward page text moves vertically upwards. Side scroll bar goes down.

Hope i am making sense.


----------



## mnick

How are macro's created on this mouse? I'd like to record one sequence, but AutoIt forces me to use high latencies (like 60 ms total) is it possible to record this sequence for example on Sniper Button?

onPress:

-save x,y pos

-move to fixedpos (with AutoIT I have to put some delay here)

-press MMB

onRelease:

-release MMB (with AutoIT I have to put some delay here)

-move back to stored pos


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ezykill*
> 
> It does the opposite of what a normal mouse does.
> 
> Normal mouse: Scroll wheel forward page text moves vertically downwards on screen. Side scroll bar goes up.
> 
> My g502: Scroll wheel forward page text moves vertically upwards. Side scroll bar goes down.
> 
> Hope i am making sense.


Is this on a mac or a PC? b If it's a PC, RMA the mouse.


----------



## Dreyka

The G502 features are meant to tick boxes for your usual consumer. Adjustable weights, unlockable scroll wheel, palm grip shape, braided cord, high CPI, led lighting and an 'interesting' angular appearance that is meant to look flashy. The mouse it self isn't of much interest to enthusiasts who favor tested shapes (IMO 3.0), rubber cord (braided can be good if they get the right cord) and a minimal professional appearance.

However, the sensor is amazing but I think it is even more amazing for some important reasons. Laser mice such as the A9800 or PTE have been used in most mice because of the mistaken belief that higher CPI is better by your average consumer. As a result, enthusiasts have had to turn away from so many hopeful mice because of that but now there may actually be a time when a solid sensor without acceleration or lift off issues is actually winning the CPI war. 12,000cpi is well beyond what any of us would ever use but the CPI is currently higher than the A9800 and PLN2033. As a result, it may actually be a sensor that is widely used rather than the token sensor that gaming peripheral companies add to one of their mice to satisfy enthusiasts and have the rest of their line up have A9800 or PLN2033 that is targeted to your average 'higher CPI is better' ignorant consumer.

Perhaps, this may never happen though. Other issues such as sensor availability and cost factor into what sensor is put into what mouse and the PMW-3366 may be too expensive or take too long to get for it to be even bothered with. We may even see a new VSCEL/PTE with a CPI higher than 12000cpi sensor which would put us back to square one with token mice meant to placate enthusiasts whereas inferior sensors are used because they can push out higher CPI numbers.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ezykill*
> 
> It does the opposite of what a normal mouse does.
> 
> Normal mouse: Scroll wheel forward page text moves vertically downwards on screen. Side scroll bar goes up.
> 
> My g502: Scroll wheel forward page text moves vertically upwards. Side scroll bar goes down.
> 
> Hope i am making sense.


That has to be some software setting somewhere. I know I've seen exactly that setting in the tool "WizMouse" (it's a tool that makes it so you can scroll any area that is under your mouse pointer without first having to click on that window or that window's area).

Also, Mac has things reversed by default compared to PC exactly like you describe, so if you are currently not at home and testing your new mouse on a Mac at work or something, that would be the reason.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Had to RMA the G502. While playing Diablo I noticed when I let off mouse 1 softly there was a bump that felt like it unclicked, but actually it was still held down. I am guessing that is a defect. Amazon RMA 1-3 weeks for new mouse







. On a side note, going back to my FK, I forgot how light this mouse was... lol


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Victor_Mizer*
> 
> Had to RMA the G502. While playing Diablo I noticed when I let off mouse 1 softly there was a bump that felt like it unclicked, but actually it was still held down. I am guessing that is a defect. Amazon RMA 1-3 weeks for new mouse
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . On a side note, going back to my FK, I forgot how light this mouse was... lol


Interesting. I'll have to give this a test tonight.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dreyka*
> 
> The G502 features are meant to tick boxes for your usual consumer. Adjustable weights, unlockable scroll wheel, palm grip shape, braided cord, high CPI, led lighting and an 'interesting' angular appearance that is meant to look flashy. The mouse it self isn't of much interest to enthusiasts who favor tested shapes (IMO 3.0), rubber cord (braided can be good if they get the right cord) and a minimal professional appearance.
> 
> However, the sensor is amazing but I think it is even more amazing for some important reasons. Laser mice such as the A9800 or PTE have been used in most mice because of the mistaken belief that higher CPI is better by your average consumer. As a result, enthusiasts have had to turn away from so many hopeful mice because of that but now there may actually be a time when a solid sensor without acceleration or lift off issues is actually winning the CPI war. 12,000cpi is well beyond what any of us would ever use but the CPI is currently higher than the A9800 and PLN2033. As a result, it may actually be a sensor that is widely used rather than the token sensor that gaming peripheral companies add to one of their mice to satisfy enthusiasts and have the rest of their line up have A9800 or PLN2033 that is targeted to your average 'higher CPI is better' ignorant consumer.
> 
> Perhaps, this may never happen though. Other issues such as sensor availability and cost factor into what sensor is put into what mouse and the PMW-3366 may be too expensive or take too long to get for it to be even bothered with. We may even see a new VSCEL/PTE with a CPI higher than 12000cpi sensor which would put us back to square one with token mice meant to placate enthusiasts whereas inferior sensors are used because they can push out higher CPI numbers.


I completely agree with almost everything that you said. One of the common misconceptions amongst gamers that don't really care to research (most of them) is that laser is inherently superior to optical. I've seen this be the deciding factor in gaming mouse purchases far more than anything else, including DPI. When faced with the option most will assume that laser sensors have to be more accurate than optical.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Interesting. I'll have to give this a test tonight.


Yea, kind of curious if anyone else notices it. I hope it's just my mouse.


----------



## jsx3

Depends on how accuracy is determined or interpreted.

The laser diode is inherently more focused than traditional LED in regards to coverage range. This attribute in past times has been considered "more accurate" regardless of larger +/- variance displayed through various testing methodology of "acceleration".

The focus nowadays is minimal variance of cursor stray. Sensors like the one in the g502 will be considered a high end offering.


----------



## remedy

got this today, despite the look it feels good to me. personal preference of course.

bad news: it snags on my artisan hien. i can't see or feel any jagged edges, but it still snags as it drags across. pretty disappointed.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsx3*
> 
> Depends on how accuracy is determined or interpreted.
> 
> The laser diode is inherently more focused than traditional LED in regards to coverage range. This attribute in past times has been considered "more accurate" regardless of larger +/- variance displayed through various testing methodology of "acceleration".
> 
> The focus nowadays is minimal variance of cursor stray. Sensors like the one in the g502 will be considered a high end offering.


Is Avago/Pixart really that lazy though that they just can't produce a modern VSCEL sensor without any inconsistent acceleration? From my understanding of the technology laser can track on more surfaces with a lower LOD even to this day but there hasn't been enough effort in making an SROM without inconsistent acceleration issues.


----------



## jsx3

SROM isn't the primary concern. There are simpler design limitations that need to be considered.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsx3*
> 
> SROM isn't the primary concern. There are simpler design limitations that need to be considered.


That's why I'm confused, because lasers such as the G5's sensor never had acceleration issues but they were limited in PCS. Is VSCEL the limiting factor with acceleration, or is it the laziness of designers/firmware engineers?


----------



## Atavax

well, with corporations, i doubt its laziness. Its deciding where to devote resources i imagine. It seems like it was decided to devote all the resources into LED sensors to iron out their kinks. If you can get LED sensors that perform good enough at the main disadvantage they had over laser, then it makes more sense just to develop for LED, instead of LED and laser. Right? Why spend a bunch more money to make Laser sensors that behave comparably to the 3366?


----------



## StrayKAT

Please Logitech if you are reading this, make a light (80~100gr), ambidextrous mouse for claw / fingertip grip with 7 buttons with this sensor, please.









I don't like lights in the mouse but whatever.


----------



## X-Nine

Ugh, what is Logitech thinking? Seriously. The G9X is one of, if not the greatest mouse ever conceived. They stop making it, then make cheaply made, tacky looking mice to succeed it.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XNine*
> 
> Ugh, what is Logitech thinking? Seriously. The G9X is one of, if not the greatest mouse ever conceived. They stop making it, then make cheaply made, tacky looking mice to succeed it.


G9x uses 9500 sensor

some people report accel and it doesn't really work well with cloth pads


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XNine*
> 
> Ugh, what is Logitech thinking? Seriously. The G9X is one of, if not the greatest mouse ever conceived. They stop making it, then make cheaply made, tacky looking mice to succeed it.


I hope you find the irony in the statement into the tacky looking mouse to succeed the G9x, not like it's a old fav in terms of mouse shape. I never get why people care how the mouse looks, all i care about is how it feels what am i going to do show off my mouse i have no need for looks.


----------



## TriviumKM

The G9x shape is great.


----------



## X-Nine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *XNine*
> 
> Ugh, what is Logitech thinking? Seriously. The G9X is one of, if not the greatest mouse ever conceived. They stop making it, then make cheaply made, tacky looking mice to succeed it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you find the irony in the statement into the tacky looking mouse to succeed the G9x, not like it's a old fav in terms of mouse shape. I never get why people care how the mouse looks, all i care about is how it feels what am i going to do show off my mouse i have no need for looks.
Click to expand...

It's the only mouse I've ever felt truly comfortbale with, and MANY people loved the G9/G9X for it's shape and features. It's very basic looking compared to all the "uber" gamer mouses out there now, and it has 4 tiny leds for dpi. Not a lot of gimmicks on it. Never had an issue with it, but one day it will eventually give out like any piece of hardware, and it will sadden me.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TriviumKM*
> 
> The G9x shape is great.


Not really whether the shape felt great or not plenty of people bashed it when it came out for looking tacky and being gimmicky.


----------



## royalkilla408

Well I bit and got it today. My current mouse is the Roccat Pure Optical. Here is my small review compare to the Pure:

Pros:

The grip is fantastic on the G502. Really well made and feels "high end". Much better than the Pure in this department. The Pure coating is slippery for my hands.

Sensor is one of the best I have ever tried out. Simply AMAZING. Pure is not bad either but Logitech G502 blows it out of the water.

Shape of the mouse fits my hands perfectly. I am already comfortable using it. It took me a week or two to get use to the Pure.

Buttons are great. Same quality as Pure. Very easy to press and great feedback.

Cord is as great. I thought Pure had a great braided cord but once again Logitech outdid Roccat in this department. Very flexible and well made.

Cons:

As everyone has said... the weight is a con. NOT as big as I thought it might be but it is still a con.

Wheel: Pure has one of the best wheels I have tried. This is where Logitech wheel loses to Pure. I am usually a big fan of Logitech wheels but not on this mouse. The wheel is just heavy, loose, and the feedback of the wheel when set to precision is not that great. I love the fast scroll part of the wheel and when you press it is fantastic... but when I play a FPS I want nice feedback on my wheel when I switch weapons but this mouse doesn't deliver that nice feedback.

Color scheme (personal): I wish they made a red color version or be able to pick the LED color. The light blue doesn't match my black and red theme computer.

Sniper button... TOO easy to press. I love the option of having it and its great when gaming, but needs to be moved a bit further away from my thumb.

Feedback: Make the wheel plastic... It would make the mouse lighter and cheaper too. No need for such a wheel on this mouse.

Overall... I am in love with this mouse. Unless they come out with an updated G9x (my favorite mouse of all time next to Microsoft WMO)... this mouse has become my third favorite mouse of all time.
Sorry I doubted you Logitech... I hope you keep listening to your customers. I love your brand and I own many of your products (Harmony Ultimate and many more). Thanks for creating quality products.


----------



## semantics

I don't quite get why the LED color isn't customizable, it turns green when you're tuning it to a surface, oh wait i can't remember if the big light turns green as well or if it's just the bars... can't check it as i'm traveling atm


----------



## Falkentyne

I don't know what the fuss is about the wheel. I personally find it 10x better than the mushy deathadder wheel. There is clear and concise feedback when scrolling. Unlike the deathadder, which feels like jello or something. Maybe its not as good as other mice, but I have SEVERAL deathadders RIGHT in front of me, including TWO black editions (one still brand new), and the Logitech wheel BLOWS the deathadder wheel out of the water.

Also, I don't think anyone noticed, but the Logitech wheel is motion sensitive. The deathadder wheel actuates at a fixed 'point', and if its not calibrated right, it can actuate when you barely start moving the wheel. The Logitech doesn't activate at all unless there is a little motion on the wheel..if you move the wheel very slowly, it will ignore it until a certain amount of speed is applied. It still will read at fixed points, though.

The Intellmouse optical 1.1A still had one of the best wheels ever, though, along with the old Initellimouse ball mice...


----------



## Longasc

I can second royalkilla408. The wheel and the perceived weight of the G502 are not to my liking.

For some reason this mouse feels heavy to lift despite the superb grip. Must be weight distribution, let's see if I can get used to it.

Edit: The sensor is goddamn divine. Seriously, it blows every other mouse sensor I ever had out of the water.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Longasc*
> 
> I can second royalkilla408. The wheel and the perceived weight of the G502 are not to my liking.
> 
> For some reason this mouse feels heavy to lift despite the superb grip. Must be weight distribution, let's see if I can get used to it.
> 
> Edit: The sensor is goddamn divine. Seriously, it blows every other mouse sensor I ever had out of the water.


Well the mouse is a bit heavy most mice fall into 100g-110g this is 120g That being said the balance on the mouse is a where the sensor is which is right before the sniper button. You can shift the back further by adding weight and maybe a bit more forward but there isn't enough leverage there to really do that. I know i've added about 11g to the mouse all in the back to push the balance point back further back because i grip the mouse much lower down than a palm gripper would.


----------



## Ice009

Can you do a proper palm grip and avoid touching the sniper button, or not really? I guess it might depend on the size of your hands?


----------



## mnick

Speaking of grip, *question to G502 owners: *would you classify it as a palm grim or a claw grip mouse?


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mnick*
> 
> Speaking of grip, *question to G502 owners: *would you classify it as a palm grim or a claw grip mouse?


I don't have it but I imagine it more for PALM than claw as you can't lift the mouse from the bottom edges.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mnick*
> 
> Speaking of grip, *question to G502 owners: *would you classify it as a palm grim or a claw grip mouse?


To me, the G502 is entirely a claw grip mouse. I'm unable to use the mouse in palm grip mode because the shape forces you into claw shape. So basically, this is the heaviest claw grip mouse ever created.

As a comparison, I could use a G400 with somewhat of a palm, claw, and slightly ghetto fingertip grip depending how i moved my hand around it. I did sand the big bump on the right side off though.

The G502 shape is better overall, it's just excessively heavy for a claw grip. Lots of people will use it anyway due to the sensor.


----------



## Nivity

G502 can be both palmed and clawed, but It is all about how big your hands are.

I can palm it just fine with 17-18cm hands (middlefinger to wrist)
Clawing it was very hard for me(weight), but I only use a clawgrip/fingertip hybrid grip. It is heavy as ASS to lift (I lift my mouse all the time in QL for example)
It was also extremly heavy to use in rts and moba for me with smaller hands, where you move the mouse all the time.

I tried some CS/BF (don't really play these games anymore) and there It was ok with a firm clawgrip, because I don't move the mouse as much as in a moba/rts/quake.

To damn heavy for me, and the balance is really garbage(very noticable if you lift the mouse often), you SHOULD put some weight to counterbalance, but the mouse is already the heaviest clawmouse in history, so adding more is suicide.

I returned mine, It was 85 freaking euro so could not justify having it on the shelf, the most expensive mouse I ever bought.
I am eager however for the future, if logitech release it in a smaller formfactor shell (the sensor)
Or when other companies pick up the sensor (since It is not a logitech sensor), I am sure other companies can handle the firmware just fine to tweak it just right.

Until then, I use my other mice


----------



## Derp

Glad to hear more reviews from people who feel the same way as I do. There was a wave of excuse giving purchase defending posters which made me think all hope was lost. If enough people keep posting like this instead of accepting bad designs, Logitech might actually do something about it.

Thank you.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Longasc*
> 
> I had to disable left/right anyways as I so often hit left by middle clicking.


try to unbind middle click instead, and bind it to right.
at least for me, it's easier to tilt than use wheel click


----------



## mnick

Is it actually hard to press middle mouse button (any comparison to G400 mmb)? I would use it with just fingertip, so left/right tilt shouldn't be a problem, just worriend about the force needed to push the wheel down.


----------



## Falkentyne

It takes more force than a regular squishy deathadder mouse, but there's also a lot of feedback when you push it. And I don't know how anyone can press the tilt left/right button on accident...I've never done it accidentally before...


----------



## Longasc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mnick*
> 
> Is it actually hard to press middle mouse button (any comparison to G400 mmb)? I would use it with just fingertip, so left/right tilt shouldn't be a problem, just worriend about the force needed to push the wheel down.


A little harder than for the old G400, more G400S level. The 400S has an extra spring to make pressing down harder for some reason.
You will hear a more metallic sound and it has a different feel when you pressed down.

You will also hear the mouse wheel a lot more when scrolling in the usual mode, only the free spinning mode is silent. It has play left and right, when you lift and move the mouse you will occasionally hear it moving from one side to another. I first thought it's the weight cover under the mouse but it's the wheel.

It's more pronounced than the G400 wheels. It's sticking out much more and much larger. It's also quite accurate, but too noisy.


----------



## zepsy4x

I'm using a G700 actually and I was using a Steelseries Sensei for FPS. The shape of the G700 is for me a lot better than the Sensei, will the G502 feel like the G700 too?


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Longasc*
> 
> I had to disable left/right anyways as I so often hit left by middle clicking.
> 
> 
> 
> try to unbind middle click instead, and bind it to right.
> at least for me, it's easier to tilt than use wheel click
Click to expand...

I actually bound middle click to the buttons to the left of the left click seeing as i don't' switch dpi on the fly i found that proper.


----------



## majnu

Was told by Customer Services that the UK pre-orders should be fulfilled around the end of May.


----------



## CeeSA

just unpacked my G502 . I can not really put into words how stunned I am.

The mouse wheel is an absolute disaster .
- much too heavy
- is much too far out
- rattling and it wobbles (it can push down noticeably express without the click )
- the stepping feels terrible
- rotates in a step mode during rapid scrolling through ( and feels like skipping clicks )
- freewheel is not bad

In the M705 Logitech has installed a wheel with raster and freewheel which I like quite well. But what was on offer with the G502 is a joke . Can hardly calm myself ...

If I were as boss and that would present me as something new I would not even let those responsible empty the wastebaskets .

The housing design I really like . Mouse buttons 1 and 2 are nice and long , and the middle finger is good at . Unfortunately, the mouse is still very narrow. The ring finger is to be applied not good without bending.

I have to really think about whether I did not send back , I 'm afraid that I can not change the mouse wheel. Since then a mod would make no sense.


----------



## Ukkooh

I'm still at the edge of buying this mouse. Is the sensor worth switching over from the avior 7000?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> I'm still at the edge of buying this mouse. Is the sensor worth switching over from the avior 7000?


If you're happy with the Avior and it fits your hand, then no. It's not worth changing for. I bought it because I tried it at Best Buy and it fit me better than the Avior. Otherwise I would have been perfectly happy to stay with Mionix.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> I'm still at the edge of buying this mouse. Is the sensor worth switching over from the avior 7000?


Completely different shape. If the sensor in the Avior is fine for you and the shape fits you I'd say no, don't go for G502.
However if you have any complaints about the sensor you might want to try the G502.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> I'm still at the edge of buying this mouse. Is the sensor worth switching over from the avior 7000?


I wouldn't think so for most people avior 7000 is plenty of sensor, unless you're looking for something very specific that the 3310 can't do that 3366(G502) can. Basically some people report smoothing with the 3310 99% of people don't get it. Probably wait and see with the G502, unless you just have money to burn then **** it.


----------



## mnick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> If you're happy with the Avior and it fits your hand, then no. It's not worth changing for. I bought it because I tried it at Best Buy and it fit me better than the Avior. Otherwise I would have been perfectly happy to stay with Mionix.


I wonder what grip do you use and how big your hand is (in cm)? You are one of the few, who had both mice in hand. Which mouse's MMB is easier to use? Do you think that using sniper button as mmb would be comfortable or this key is too hard to access?


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Completely different shape. If the sensor in the Avior is fine for you and the shape fits you I'd say no, don't go for G502.
> However if you have any complaints about the sensor you might want to try the G502.


I seem to adjust to different shapes easily and I think I could adjust to the G502 as well. For example I had to learn to rest my middle finger on the mouse wheel with the avior to be comfortable with it.
The only problem I have with the avior's sensor is that the PCS is too low for me if i lower the LOD but that is a very minor problem. I guess I'll try to wait for a less gimmicky mouse with the sensor.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> I seem to adjust to different shapes easily and I think I could adjust to the G502 as well. For example I had to learn to rest my middle finger on the mouse wheel with the avior to be comfortable with it.
> The only problem I have with the avior's sensor is that the PCS is too low for me if i lower the LOD but that is a very minor problem. I guess I'll try to wait for a less gimmicky mouse with the sensor.


That's really odd because I play on minimum LOD every day with the Avior and I can easily top Enotus right at 5.3 m/s...that's with the Talent.


----------



## CeeSA

the middlefinger on the mouse is very difficult because the wheel extends very far out. And the wheel is not in the front end.

I really wonder why other owners did not complain (more) that ****ty wheel.
If you don't plan to exchange the wheel, I could only warn you!


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> That's really odd because I play on minimum LOD every day with the Avior and I can easily top Enotus right at 5.3 m/s...that's with the Talent.


I'm not sure if it is the mousepad causing this. So far I have only tested it with the qck and hayate and it has the problem on both. I guess I could try it with the sargas 320 that came with the mouse tomorrow. It might be a slightly malfunctioning sensor but I doubt that they would replace it for me because it is very hard to get proof on matters like this. If it is the mousepad I guess I'll have to live with it.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CeeSA*
> 
> the middlefinger on the mouse is very difficult because the wheel extends very far out. And the wheel is not in the front end.
> 
> I really wonder why other owners did not complain (more) that ****ty wheel.
> If you don't plan to exchange the wheel, I could only warn you!


I like the wheel. It works well for my grip and I love the click. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> I'm not sure if it is the mousepad causing this. So far I have only tested it with the qck and hayate and it has the problem on both. I guess I could try it with the sargas 320 that came with the mouse tomorrow. It might be a slightly malfunctioning sensor but I doubt that they would replace it for me because it is very hard to get proof on matters like this. If it is the mousepad I guess I'll have to live with it.


If you can prove it with Enotus with a video I'm certain they'll send you another one. I didn't have that issue on my QcKs either. They are extremely responsive to concerns like this, I'm sure they'll send you another one if you ask.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mnick*
> 
> I wonder what grip do you use and how big your hand is (in cm)? You are one of the few, who had both mice in hand. Which mouse's MMB is easier to use? Do you think that using sniper button as mmb would be comfortable or this key is too hard to access?


I use a hybrid claw/palm grip with a 20cm hand. The Avior is definitely the easiest to get used to. The mmb of the g502 is great in my opinion, but it takes some getting used to, as it's a mass wheel with side scrolling and infinity scrolling option. The Avior is a fantastic iteration on the standard mouse wheel. The G502 is a different monster all together.

You can possibly get away with using the sniper button as the mmb. It's right at the tip of my thumb when I'm using my standard grip, but there is no reason not to use the scroll wheel on the mouse. It feels just fine. The mouse does provide you some options, though. You can probably customize it to your liking. This isn't the same travesty as the G9X and G500 mass scroll wheels. The mmb is perfectly functional.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CeeSA*
> 
> just unpacked my G502 . I can not really put into words how stunned I am.
> 
> The mouse wheel is an absolute disaster .
> - much too heavy
> - is much too far out
> - rattling and it wobbles (it can push down noticeably express without the click )
> - the stepping feels terrible
> - rotates in a step mode during rapid scrolling through ( and feels like skipping clicks )
> - freewheel is not bad
> 
> In the M705 Logitech has installed a wheel with raster and freewheel which I like quite well. But what was on offer with the G502 is a joke . Can hardly calm myself ...
> 
> If I were as boss and that would present me as something new I would not even let those responsible empty the wastebaskets .
> 
> The housing design I really like . Mouse buttons 1 and 2 are nice and long , and the middle finger is good at . Unfortunately, the mouse is still very narrow. The ring finger is to be applied not good without bending.
> 
> I have to really think about whether I did not send back , I 'm afraid that I can not change the mouse wheel. Since then a mod would make no sense.


Pretty much what I thought about the wheel too and I'm usually not picky at all in that area. Crazy how many sacrifices they made on the wheel so you could spin it for 30 seconds at a time.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *CeeSA*
> 
> the middlefinger on the mouse is very difficult because the wheel extends very far out. And the wheel is not in the front end.
> 
> I really wonder why other owners did not complain (more) that ****ty wheel.
> If you don't plan to exchange the wheel, I could only warn you!
> 
> 
> 
> I like the wheel. It works well for my grip and I love the click. I'm sorry it didn't work out for you.
Click to expand...

I like the free wheel, but i dislike the click,i never use the wheel in games i always prefer keyboard shortcuts it's faster than having to scroll through weapon selects just press 1 button to select the weapon. So the wheel is always something i unbind.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> Pretty much what I thought about the wheel too and I'm usually not picky at all in that area. Crazy how many sacrifices they made on the wheel so you could spin it for 30 seconds at a time.


It's not that i ever want to spin it for 30 sec at a time. It's that i like to flick it up or down to scroll and stop/ scroll while reading smoothly. I never used scroll wheel in games anyways so i prefer this kind of wheel because i do use the wheel for general purpose. The free scroll wheel is totally a different feel when surfing the web than a traditional scroll wheel.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> If you can prove it with Enotus with a video I'm certain they'll send you another one. I didn't have that issue on my QcKs either. They are extremely responsive to concerns like this, I'm sure they'll send you another one if you ask.


I can't prove it with a enotus mouse test video because it gives me results that are completely off like 15+ m/s. This happens with mousetester too.
Here are result images from mousetester with the default lod and minimum lod. These results seem to be completely absurd too even though it works good during gaming.
Minimum lod:

Default lod:


Edit: And here is an image with 800 dpi (used it in the above pics too) and default lod during a slow (around a third of the speed of the above ones) swipe:


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> I like the free wheel, but i dislike the click,i never use the wheel in games i always prefer keyboard shortcuts it's faster than having to scroll through weapon selects just press 1 button to select the weapon. So the wheel is always something i unbind.
> It's not that i ever want to spin it for 30 sec at a time. It's that i like to flick it up or down to scroll and stop/ scroll while reading smoothly. I never used scroll wheel in games anyways so i prefer this kind of wheel because i do use the wheel for general purpose. The free scroll wheel is totally a different feel when surfing the web than a traditional scroll wheel.


For gaming I really dislike the wheel, but I used it in the office last week too and for browsing of documents it was really great. A colleague had the G9 in his office simply for that reason...


----------



## metal571

Really odd. Also you have to make sure you are not clicking any mouse buttons while swiping but still those graphs shouldn't show up like that anyway.


----------



## JustinSane

Someone on another forum is saying when swiping with the G502 and setting it down kinda rough, the mouse will right click on it's own. Anyone else having that problem?


----------



## Ahnnn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xSociety*
> 
> Well, looks like I won't be buying Logitech anymore. I found the Corsair M45 to be an ideal replacement for my old g9x. No marketing bluff, just an amazing optical sensor mouse with no tricks to up the dpi.
> 
> Size wise it's very good as well:


Hi , looks like you have the Razer Destructor v2 , hows the tracking with the M45? I have the version 1 of that , wanna know how it tracks for optical mouse. Thanks. Sorry if i went too off topic.


----------



## xSociety

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ahnnn*
> 
> Hi , looks like you have the Razer Destructor v2 , hows the tracking with the M45? I have the version 1 of that , wanna know how it tracks for optical mouse. Thanks. Sorry if i went too off topic.


Well I'm actually using the Proteus Core right now and liking it a lot more, even with my fingertip grip. But I did find that the M45 did not track that well on the "rough" side but great on the "smooth" side. I've since also gone with a cloth mousepad, the corsair extended version that fits my whole desk and I love it.


----------



## mattavich

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *majnu*
> 
> Was told by Customer Services that the UK pre-orders should be fulfilled around the end of May.


Oh I really hope its before this :'(


----------



## white118

the sniper button ruins it for me, its exactly where i rest my thumb with my fingertip grip. otherwise it would be perfect. gah they just need to make g9x replacement already, i cant get comfortable with any other mouse.


----------



## Zero4549

You know what would be awesome? A well built lightweight mouse with a sensor that actually tracks half decent at below 2000dpi, with a sensible button layout and shape.

Couple that with a nice simple all black cloth mouse pad without any crazy coatings, huge logos, 5 inch thick built in wrist pads, etc.

Crazy, right?


----------



## Omega215d

So I went ahead and bought the G502 and once I took it out of the box I found that the mouse fit my hand perfectly for both palm and claw grips. The scroll wheel has a good speed to it without sacrificing the middle click unlike my old G500. So far the skates have a nice glide on my Razer Goliathus Speed, SteelSeries 5L, Sharkoon Dark Glider, FUNC 1030, Razer Scarab, and Razer eXactMat. The lift off distance is perfect for me so I don't have to resort to the tape fix like I did for the Roccat Savu and CM Spawn. The on-board profile is nice to have so I don't need to rely on having the software running in the background. The braided cable feels softer than the one on the Savu. It's too early to know if it'll be a problem but I like it as it's flexible yet has a good thickness to it.

I'm fine with the current weight of the mouse and have no need for the additional plates. That blue glow... I kinda like it but it's also a bit bothersome in a dark room. =/

Right now I'm running 450 DPI @ 1000 Hz w/ Windows set at 6/ 11.


----------



## semantics

Well the glow can be turned off it's in options in to lgs same place to check for firmware updates


----------



## Omega215d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> Well the glow can be turned off it's in options in to lgs same place to check for firmware updates


Oh, yeah I know that but on one hand I kinda like it, on the other it's a bit distracting in a dark room. Plus it doesn't match the red lighting on my CM Storm Trigger.

If no issues come up in the following weeks then I can finally replace my worn out G500.


----------



## netdevil

On spec this seems lighter than the G700s, however no one has commented that the G700s is heavy but instead on the G502. I use a G700s and I do alot of lifting and feel the weight of the mouse mostly due to the battery I supposed. Anyone who has use both thinks the G502 will solve my problem?


----------



## ejohnson

Got my self a 502 a few days ago to replace my alienware mouse (g9x)
Loving it sofar, but I hate the bright G that seems to be angled to shine right in my eyes.... anyone pop this bad boy open to turn that supernova of a LED down?


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejohnson*
> 
> Got my self a 502 a few days ago to replace my alienware mouse (g9x)
> Loving it sofar, but I hate the bright G that seems to be angled to shine right in my eyes.... anyone pop this bad boy open to turn that supernova of a LED down?


You can turn it off in the software?


----------



## ejohnson

Whoa really? I searched High and low for a off option.
I guess I will search some more tonight. Well I guess this mouse is getting better for me









Now I just ned to order some new feet for it so I can trim down my cable length to 20 inches. I use the mouse shared between a laptop and my desktop, so I dont have a need for that long cable.


----------



## InVicT2009

People who complain about weight i think i have maybe a way to reduce the weight without compromising anything.

First you remove the weight lid , but as someone said that will make the mouse tilt a bit , but i will get to that in a moment.


If you are experienced in opening mice (nothing too hard actually) , try to remove the magnet inside the mouse im not sure what type of retention it has but i think its snaped in to place .



So now you have removed 2 magnets and a weight lid not really sure how much that is in grams because i dont have the mouse yet.

But we need to resolve the tilt problem that comes with taking the weight lid and the 2 mouse feet that come with it.

My idea is to buy mouse feet close to this shape:


You might have to stack 2 or 3 depending on the thickness.

I recomend this set :



You might have to cut them to fit perfectly or just use another set and dont use the full space in the white line.
They come in 2 different thicknesses, you can always use caliper rule to ensure the mouse is perfectly flat to the mm.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G9-G9x-Mouse-Feet-0-18mm-0-5mm-/121120355176?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item61d2929268
This is takasta store, a fellow reviewer and member of this forum, i've bought many mouse feet from here, always very good quality cheap and fast.

If your problem wasnt the mouse weight itself but actually the center of mass being upfront , after this you can add 1 or 2 weights in the back to help.

*P.s I take no credit for these pictures i know that actually they were taken from members in this forum, so i hope i dont upset anyone.*


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> People who complain about weight i think i have maybe a way to reduce the weight without compromising anything.
> 
> First you remove the weight lid , but as someone said that will make the mouse tilt a bit , but i will get to that in a moment.
> 
> If you are experienced in opening mice (nothing too hard actually) , try to remove the magnet inside the mouse im not sure what type of retention it has but i think its snaped in to place .
> 
> So now you have removed 2 magnets and a weight lid not really sure how much that is in grams because i dont have the mouse yet.
> 
> But we need to resolve the tilt problem that comes with taking the weight lid and the 2 mouse feet that come with it.
> 
> My idea is to buy mouse feet close to this shape:
> 
> You might have to stack 2 or 3 depending on the thickness.
> 
> I recomend this set :
> 
> You might have to cut them to fit perfectly or just use another set and dont use the full space in the white line.
> They come in 2 different thicknesses, you can always use caliper rule to ensure the mouse is perfectly flat to the mm.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G9-G9x-Mouse-Feet-0-18mm-0-5mm-/121120355176?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item61d2929268
> This is takasta store, a fellow reviewer and member of this forum, i've bought many mouse feet from here, always very good quality cheap and fast.
> 
> If your problem wasnt the mouse weight itself but actually the center of mass being upfront , after this you can add 1 or 2 weights in the back to help.
> 
> *P.s I take no credit for these pictures i know that actually they were taken from members in this forum, so i hope i dont upset anyone.*


I use this ptfe tape for my mice, i put it over their original feet.
it's cheap and lasts for years...i find it very useful because it glides better on cloth pads and i use a less wide area than the original feet


----------



## CeeSA

I felt no tilt without the weight lid, but good idea InVicT2009.

some other points for my taste:

+
long mouse buttons (a very rare feature)
cable - I like the sleekness
shape - I am surprised, but I really like it

o
Sniper button - position is ok

-
long travelway for mousbutton 1 and 2 to the trigger point (particularly in comparison to the M45)
thumb buttons have a (not sharp) ledge - depends how you trigger it
to narrow for me - there is no position for the ringfinger without bending it (maybe more relevant for palm grippers)


----------



## ottoman2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *royalkilla408*
> 
> Well I bit and got it today. My current mouse is the Roccat Pure Optical. Here is my small review compare to the Pure:
> 
> Pros:
> 
> The grip is fantastic on the G502. Really well made and feels "high end". Much better than the Pure in this department. The Pure coating is slippery for my hands.
> 
> Sensor is one of the best I have ever tried out. Simply AMAZING. Pure is not bad either but Logitech G502 blows it out of the water.
> 
> Shape of the mouse fits my hands perfectly. I am already comfortable using it. It took me a week or two to get use to the Pure.
> 
> Buttons are great. Same quality as Pure. Very easy to press and great feedback.
> 
> Cord is as great. I thought Pure had a great braided cord but once again Logitech outdid Roccat in this department. Very flexible and well made.
> 
> Cons:
> 
> As everyone has said... the weight is a con. NOT as big as I thought it might be but it is still a con.
> 
> Wheel: Pure has one of the best wheels I have tried. This is where Logitech wheel loses to Pure. I am usually a big fan of Logitech wheels but not on this mouse. The wheel is just heavy, loose, and the feedback of the wheel when set to precision is not that great. I love the fast scroll part of the wheel and when you press it is fantastic... but when I play a FPS I want nice feedback on my wheel when I switch weapons but this mouse doesn't deliver that nice feedback.
> 
> Color scheme (personal): I wish they made a red color version or be able to pick the LED color. The light blue doesn't match my black and red theme computer.
> 
> Sniper button... TOO easy to press. I love the option of having it and its great when gaming, but needs to be moved a bit further away from my thumb.
> 
> Feedback: Make the wheel plastic... It would make the mouse lighter and cheaper too. No need for such a wheel on this mouse.
> 
> Overall... I am in love with this mouse. Unless they come out with an updated G9x (my favorite mouse of all time next to Microsoft WMO)... this mouse has become my third favorite mouse of all time.
> Sorry I doubted you Logitech... I hope you keep listening to your customers. I love your brand and I own many of your products (Harmony Ultimate and many more). Thanks for creating quality products.


Thanks for your review, but can you please tell me which mouse grip you use and how many cm/360° ?


----------



## royalkilla408

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ottoman2*
> 
> Thanks for your review, but can you please tell me which mouse grip you use and how many cm/360° ?


You're welcome. My grip depends on what I'm doing. It goes from claw grip to finger tip grip. You can kind of palm grip this mouse but it feels a bit weird. I don't know about my cm/360° but I play 800 dpi when playing FPS like BF4 and Titanfall... 1600 to 2400 when playing Dota 2 and when in desktop. My "sniper" button is set to 400dpi.

Used almost the same dpi setting on my Pure optical... Except max dpi I used on that mouse was 1600. Anything above that felt inaccurate... Unlike G502... The tracking on the G502 is great.


----------



## LocutusH

Got my G502 also today. So far i like it. Just dont understand, whou would like to make it even more heavy with these weights?








(its 126g empty, i weighed it, 20g heavier than the naos, not bad, but still have to get used to it)


----------



## gregoire

Does someone who can ear the sound of a G500s confirm me that's this G502 isn't affected ?
See for example : http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2195135
or http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-series-Gaming-Mice/G500S-Input-lag/td-p/1039171
Thank you very much !


----------



## unitedflow

Is this mouse supposed to be more accurate than the g500?


----------



## LocutusH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gregoire*
> 
> Does someone who can ear the sound of a G500s confirm me that's this G502 isn't affected ?
> See for example : http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2195135
> or http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-series-Gaming-Mice/G500S-Input-lag/td-p/1039171
> Thank you very much !


I have no such "whining".


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gregoire*
> 
> Does someone who can ear the sound of a G500s confirm me that's this G502 isn't affected ?
> See for example : http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2195135
> or http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-series-Gaming-Mice/G500S-Input-lag/td-p/1039171
> Thank you very much !


There is no hum/whine


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *unitedflow*
> 
> Is this mouse supposed to be more accurate than the g500?


Yes it is.


----------



## gregoire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> I have no such "whining".


Thanks, you are the first person to confirm it to me (most people don't hear it so Logitech didn't "fix" this problem on lots of there mices).
Just as a curiosity, on which model can you hear the problem (for me I bought a G500s and I could'nt work anymore with that peace of &ç%*"&).


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gregoire*
> 
> Thanks, you are the first person to confirm it to me (most people don't hear it so Logitech didn't "fix" this problem on lots of there mices).
> Just as a curiosity, on which model can you hear the problem (for me I bought a G500s and I could'nt work anymore with that peace of &ç%*"&).


My original G500 hummed.


----------



## gregoire

Great thread, I didn't even know the G500 was also affected. NOW I have to buy this one 

Thank you very very much !!!


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *unitedflow*
> 
> Is this mouse supposed to be more accurate than the g500?


Much more.


----------



## mattavich

Good news for people in the UK, I just got an email from Logitech saying my preorder has been dispatched


----------



## majnu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mattavich*
> 
> Good news for people in the UK, I just got an email from Logitech saying my preorder has been dispatched


really?

wow, that's great news. When did you pre-order?

edit - mines been shipped too - email just came through.


----------



## minimalist

Hey guys, so is there mouse acceleration on this mouse? I was thinking about getting the Deathadder but found out about this. Also, have any legit performance reviews been done?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *minimalist*
> 
> Hey guys, so is there mouse acceleration on this mouse? I was thinking about getting the Deathadder but found out about this. Also, have any legit performance reviews been done?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1481639/logitech-g502-proteus-core-gaming-mouse-review-by-ino

Review I did


----------



## minimalist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1481639/logitech-g502-proteus-core-gaming-mouse-review-by-ino
> 
> Review I did


Saw your review, it's great. There just seems to be some people saying there is acceleration so has there been some sort of general consensus where multiple people have tested it and come up with a similar outcome?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *minimalist*
> 
> Saw your review, it's great. There just seems to be some people saying there is acceleration so has there been some sort of general consensus where multiple people have tested it and come up with a similar outcome?


That was only Atavax afaik and he said (in the USB 2 vs 3 thread) that it was fixed for him on USB 3.0
I think no one else had accel.


----------



## InVicT2009

Dont know if this is a repost but...


----------



## minimalist

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> That was only Atavax afaik and he said (in the USB 2 vs 3 thread) that it was fixed for him on USB 3.0
> I think no one else had accel.


Interesting. Thanks!


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *minimalist*
> 
> Interesting. Thanks!


No acceleration. That was an anomalous data point basically. It is an optical sensor, there is no acceleration, period.


----------



## mattavich

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *majnu*
> 
> really?
> 
> wow, that's great news. When did you pre-order?
> 
> edit - mines been shipped too - email just came through.


Onwards and upwards


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> It is an optical sensor, there is no acceleration, period.


Not saying the G502 has any problems with accel but being optical doesn't mean it can't have accel problems. My kinzu V1 used an optical sensor that had a ton of acceleration. That sensor as a whole was an excellent example of what not to do when making a sensor (insane prediction, low tracking speed, accel)


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Not saying the G502 has any problems with accel but being optical doesn't mean it can't have accel problems. My kinzu V1 used an optical sensor that had a ton of acceleration. That sensor as a whole was an excellent example of what not to do when making a sensor (insane prediction, low tracking speed, accel)


that's actually the only optical i know of with hardware acceleration and steelseries has admitted they did it on purpose.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> that's actually the only optical i know of with hardware acceleration and steelseries has admitted they did it on purpose.


All common sensors today, even the PTE, are optical, only difference is source of illumination and lens...

Also don't believe Steelseries on that. Just a cover up.


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> even the PTE, are optical


That depends on how you define optical, it doesnt take images, so in a way it is "blind", taking images and compare them is what i would call optical.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Also don't believe Steelseries on that. Just a cover up.


And this, the entry in the FAQ(LINK) was made after it got more or less known that the kinzu v1 has mouse acceleration because of the sensor choice.


----------



## jsx3

Instead of optically comparing photos, the twin eyes lasers optically scatter on surface and perform self mixing interferometry for movement detection.


----------



## LocutusH

Do you guys also press the dpi up accidentally? Had to remap it to left mouse also... I always ended up on higher dpi in chaotic firefights.


----------



## gregoire

Does anyone know whether it's possible (and easy) to turn the mouse's led off under linux ?
Also has anyone already "configured" the "extra" buttons for X11 ?

Thanks.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gregoire*
> 
> Does anyone know whether it's possible (and easy) to turn the mouse's led off under linux ?
> Also has anyone already "configured" the "extra" buttons for X11 ?
> 
> Thanks.


If you turn it off in a windows machine with LGS it stays off. Saved on mouse.


----------



## moonbogg

Got this mouse today and its totally amazing. I got one thing bothering me though, and its minor. The scroll wheel when in free spin mode feels gritty and not very smooth. The G700's wheel would spin very smooth and spin forever. The G502 free spin is not as smooth and has a gritty vibration to it as it free spins. Are they all like that or did I get a dud?


----------



## gregoire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> If you turn it off in a windows machine with LGS it stays off. Saved on mouse.


Thank you very much ! I guess I could find a friend with windows willing to install something for a while on his computer


----------



## Chuck89

I received my G502 yesterday and i like it so far. The only thing which is a bit annoying is the scroll wheel. It is not as precise as it should be.
Sometimes it seems to skip a sudden change in movement, like when im scrolling up/down and then right after that scroll 1-click in the opposite direction. Until now i could experience this a few times using firefox.

Another thing is that the wheel sometimes makes a strange clicky scrolling sound.
I made a video, so you can see and hear what exactly i mean by that.






Unfortunately the sound volume is a bit low, so please make sure to turn up your speakers - the sound im talking about is that kind of clicking you can hear when im scrolling the wheel.


----------



## Ahnnn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moonbogg*
> 
> Got this mouse today and its totally amazing. I got one thing bothering me though, and its minor. The scroll wheel when in free spin mode feels gritty and not very smooth. The G700's wheel would spin very smooth and spin forever. The G502 free spin is not as smooth and has a gritty vibration to it as it free spins. Are they all like that or did I get a dud?


Hey , would you mind weighing both the G502 and G700(with and without battery)? If not , describing it will do too! Thanks a lot!


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> Do you guys also press the dpi up accidentally? Had to remap it to left mouse also... I always ended up on higher dpi in chaotic firefights.


i would accidentally change profiles, but never go near the actual dpi switch buttons.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuck89*
> 
> I received my G502 yesterday and i like it so far. The only thing which is a bit annoying is the scroll wheel. It is not as precise as it should be.
> Sometimes it seems to skip a sudden change in movement, like when im scrolling up/down and then right after that scroll 1-click in the opposite direction. Until now i could experience this a few times using firefox.
> 
> Another thing is that the wheel sometimes makes a strange clicky scrolling sound.
> I made a video, so you can see and hear what exactly i mean by that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately the sound volume is a bit low, so please make sure to turn up your speakers - the sound im talking about is that kind of clicking you can hear when im scrolling the wheel.


Could be too little lubrication. Mine is as smooth as could be expected.
You could always open the mouse and add non-corrosive lube gel (a very tiny amount) or deoxit electrical contact cleaner around the gear. There should be no grinding whatsoever.

About the scrolling or skipping movement,
I think the wheel is motion sensitive, where if you move it extremely slowly, it won't scroll at all. That may sometimes cause the activation point to be put right at or next to an indent sometimes. You can test that by moving the wheel very, very slowly (do it in free scroll mode), and notice that it won't scroll at all, until you go past a certain speed. So the points where it will activate a scroll might vary a bit.

The deathadder, by contrast, has defined 'points' where it always activates a scroll, every time. But I think the drawback of that is, it can cause it to scroll backwards or multiactivate (often a common problem with DA's), unless you open the DA up and clean/apply pressure to the mechanism (should be a youtube guide on that).


----------



## Chuck89

You are absolutely right.
When im moving the wheel really slowly then it doesnt do anything. Its the first time i use a wheel constructed that way. I guess i have to adjust.

Until yesterday i still used a DA 2013 ( returned it due to some problems) which has a totally different scroll wheel - in fact i liked that one better. But in comparison to my 7 year old G5 refresh both the wheels of the G502 and the DA 2013 are better in my opinion.

I cant always replicate that clicking sound i recorded in my video - sometimes its there and sometimes i can scroll without noticing it.

In free scroll mode it is completely gone. I guess it has something to do with that precision metal thing which enables the ratchet.

Another thing is that i can lift both main buttons with my finger a tiny bit. I guess this is normal? Or are both buttons supposed to be absolutely stiff even when turning the mouse upside down?


----------



## Falkentyne

It's normal. The button levers are separate from the housing, which is why you have the satisfying feel (but also why the right click can activate if you put the mouse down too hard, which that other thread complained about (similar to the rat 7/9 as well) slamming the mouse down too hard can make the lever rise then depress the microswitch). The deathadder has the lever integrated with the shell housing itself.

Still much better than how easy it was to accidentally RMB press on those DA mice. The diamondback plasma was so much better than that...


----------



## LocutusH

Question: What should the lightning timer in the G Software do?
I tought it would turn off the G lightning after x minutes not using the mouse, but it does nothing...


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> Question: What should the lightning timer in the G Software do?
> I tought it would turn off the G lightning after x minutes not using the mouse, but it does nothing...


turn of lighting completely if possible

extra stuff consuming power is advised to be avoided on a mouse


----------



## moonbogg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ahnnn*
> 
> Hey , would you mind weighing both the G502 and G700(with and without battery)? If not , describing it will do too! Thanks a lot!


Sorry, but I don't have a scale for things in this weight range. I can tell you how they both feel though. I thought the G700 felt solid in my hand, but there is just no comparison to the G502. The G502 feels like its glued to my hand. The grip is just the best I've ever had.
Regarding weight, the G700 is quite a bit heavier, especially with battery installed. The G502 felt very light for me coming from the G700. I chose not to add weight to the G502 because I want to adjust to the lighter feel of the mouse after using that G700 tank for 3 years. G700 is amazing, but the G502 is just so sexy its plain stupid. Total perfection in my book. I just wish the scroll wheel was as smooth as the G700's.


----------



## Omega215d

Here's mine in between the Roccat Savu and CM Spawn with the G502 being in use w/ LED off:



The product photos make the mouse look as if it's full of sharp angles and edges. It's pretty smooth and feels like a combination of the Savu and MX-518/ G400/ G500. I'm definitely liking the scroll wheel on the G502 compared to the G500 and Savu.

*The razer M makes the red on the Spawn look at bit splotchy even though it looks quite new in person. Maybe next time I'll use the photos taken with my HTC One.


----------



## ronal

Anyone try this mouse in CSGO because I would like to know how it performs.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> Anyone try this mouse in CSGO because I would like to know how it performs.


Not sure what kind of answer you expect... Its sensor is as close to perfect as possible. If you and your hand like the shape and weight and cable and click of the buttons, it's great, otherwise it's not.


----------



## rflair

http://logitech-en-amr.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/49607/~/logitech-g502-proteus-core-technical-specifications

Specs from Logitech.


----------



## Hontouni

Got the G502 a few days ago, very impressed so far with the tracking and overall feel. Only gripe is the mouse wheel seems to roll back randomly after you stop scrolling due to the wheel not being balanced or something. I've had both the g9x and g500 previously and both didn't have this issue in free spin mode. I made a quick video to demonstrate this to see if anyone has similar issues in free spin mode or maybe I got a weird unit. Note the mouse wheel is amazing in games using the click mode, this just happens in casual browsing.

Video showing the slight rock back after a scroll making the page scroll a notch in the opposite direction, also shows how easy the wheel moves by just moving the mouse: https://mega.co.nz/#!mJtEUBJC!51YAVVq_TA0Ab1E2Z4_S9jIJHSDev7Po_Isko4sT6AQ


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hontouni*
> 
> Got the G502 a few days ago, very impressed so far with the tracking and overall feel. Only gripe is the mouse wheel seems to roll back randomly after you stop scrolling due to the wheel not being balanced or something. I've had both the g9x and g500 previously and both didn't have this issue in free spin mode. I made a quick video to demonstrate this to see if anyone has similar issues in free spin mode or maybe I got a weird unit. Note the mouse wheel is amazing in games using the click mode, this just happens in casual browsing.
> 
> Video showing the slight rock back after a scroll making the page scroll a notch in the opposite direction, also shows how easy the wheel moves by just moving the mouse: https://mega.co.nz/#!mJtEUBJC!51YAVVq_TA0Ab1E2Z4_S9jIJHSDev7Po_Isko4sT6AQ


Is the scroll wheel on this mouse really that bad?


----------



## Omega215d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Is the scroll wheel on this mouse really that bad?


As of right now I'm not getting any feedback or control problems. It's vastly improved over the G500 and I'm preferring it's action to that of my Roccat Savu as I can scroll fast yet have middle click control.


----------



## gildadan

Well I picked up this mouse today at best buy. they had one on display so got to at least feel how it sits in my hand and it felt great. a lot like my g5 this is replacing. I loved that mouse but the side buttons are failing on it so a replacement has been in the works. Sadly none looked the part or had the stuff I wanted. this seems like it will be great. personally I love the weight. I actually added all but one weight to get it balanced where I think I will like it. I havent been able to game with it yet so weight is subject to change a little but the feel of the buttons and placement felt good to me. Better than the g5 I think.

Asthetically it is hideous to me but it feels great in my hand. I wont be looking at it so as long as it performs I dont care.

will post some more after I have tested it further in game and get it programmed.


----------



## Heimdallr

I don't like how this mouse looks, it's too tacky for my liking but considering how everyone praise the sensor and that is a logitech product i think i will give it a shot as soon is available on Amazon here in Italy.
I hope Logitech can come up with a new mouse with a more sober shape (maybe ambidextrous?).


----------



## takasta

Seeing that there is already a review here, I've decided not to write one up, but in any case, here's my YouTube review.


----------



## ejohnson

Some odd behavior on my 502, not sure if its mouse, or computer issue.

I have a alienware m14x r2. When I plug the mouse into the left side USB ports, I get terrible game lag. If I plug it into the right side USB ports the game works great.
\
The only thing between the two ports is that one is a powershare USB 2.0 port, the other is a USB 3.0 port
The USB 2 is the one giving me all the game lag

EDIT:
Game - titanfall
Specs
i5
gtx650m
16gb ram
ssd


----------



## Atavax

i would try a different game. In my experience, Titanfall doesn't have the best mouse implementation.

Takasta, did you try playing it without weight door? lightens the mouse a bit because of the magnet. Or if you aren't planning on returning it, you could also remove the magnet built into the mouse to hold the door on to further reduce the weight.


----------



## LocutusH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i would try a different game. In my experience, Titanfall doesn't have the best mouse implementation.
> 
> Takasta, did you try playing it without weight door? lightens the mouse a bit because of the magnet. Or if you aren't planning on returning it, you could also remove the magnet built into the mouse to hold the door on to further reduce the weight.


I weighed to mouse with and without that too, and its just 126 vs 120g. Not worth doing it. (i have no problems with this weight)


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ejohnson*
> 
> Some odd behavior on my 502, not sure if its mouse, or computer issue.
> 
> I have a alienware m14x r2. When I plug the mouse into the left side USB ports, I get terrible game lag. If I plug it into the right side USB ports the game works great.
> \
> The only thing between the two ports is that one is a powershare USB 2.0 port, the other is a USB 3.0 port
> The USB 2 is the one giving me all the game lag
> 
> EDIT:
> Game - titanfall
> Specs
> i5
> gtx650m
> 16gb ram
> ssd


Have you tried setting a lower polling rate in the software? Try 125 and then move up from there.


----------



## Thunderbringer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *takasta*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seeing that there is already a review here, I've decided not to write one up, but in any case, here's my YouTube review.


Small typo "Pixart 33*88* Performance" , otherwise very good Youtube review!







Thanks


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> I weighed to mouse with and without that too, and its just 126 vs 120g. Not worth doing it. (i have no problems with this weight)


meh, 6g is 6g... also if he removed the weight from the inside as well, probably at least another 4g... so 10g lighter is nothing to scoff at.


----------



## metal571

Should be 3366


----------



## Kni9ht

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ronal*
> 
> Anyone try this mouse in CSGO because I would like to know how it performs.


Yeah, it's pretty good, def a step up from the g500s I was using. Had to warranty my g500s because of left click issues and they sent me a G502. I don't mind the weight personally. I'm still having a bit of a hard time getting used to it in CSGO though, not sure why.


----------



## dontspamme

How much do you think one could shave off in weight with the mouse, by drilling holes, taking out useless stuff like the 'weight system' etc etc?

If I could get it down to 100g, I'd probably be willing to fork out the insane price this mouse has (just because I'm loving what I'm hearing about the sensor)


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dontspamme*
> 
> How much do you think one could shave off in weight with the mouse, by drilling holes, taking out useless stuff like the 'weight system' etc etc?
> 
> If I could get it down to 100g, I'd probably be willing to fork out the insane price this mouse has (just because I'm loving what I'm hearing about the sensor)


The big weight problem would be the wheel, if you can somehow mod it to use a traditional plastic wheel plus removing the weight door and the magnet I bet the G502 would be just a bit over 100g. It still has a ton of screws holding the top shell bits though so I don't know how low you could go.

would be an interesting and expensive little project.


----------



## deepor

To put what Derp says into a context, here's a link to the post of this thread that shows the mouse disassembled:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1479217/new-logitech-g502-proteus-core/500#post_22103643

There's a lot of stuff going on there.


----------



## Atavax

i was thinking of removing the side button pcb along with the 2 side buttons and the sniper button, then the magnet to hold the door on plus the door.

Or i'm pretty sure the scroll wheel weights 16g. So if you remove the scroll wheel and don't replace it plus remove the magnets and weight door, you're probably right at 100g.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> To put what Derp says into a context, here's a link to the post of this thread that shows the mouse disassembled:
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1479217/new-logitech-g502-proteus-core/500#post_22103643
> 
> There's a lot of stuff going on there.


Thanks. If he needs another example, this youtube video showing how the top shell is put together might help.


----------



## majnu

The small circular thing sellotaped on the box, is that a weight?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *majnu*
> 
> The small circular thing sellotaped on the box, is that a weight?


Nope, just a magnet to keep the lid of the box closed.


----------



## gregoire

Mine is scheduled to arrive "By End of Day" (not sure how to understand that) thursday (UPS)


----------



## Creo

So, how is this compared to a g9x sensor wise? Is it worth changing?


----------



## majnu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Nope, just a magnet to keep the lid of the box closed.


lol









Also my wrists are beginning to ache after using the mouse, I think if I'm going to keep it I will defo need to buy a wrist rest.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i was thinking of removing the side button pcb along with the 2 side buttons and the sniper button, then the magnet to hold the door on plus the door.
> 
> Or i'm pretty sure the scroll wheel weights 16g. So if you remove the scroll wheel and don't replace it plus remove the magnets and weight door, you're probably right at 100g.


I hear if you just dremel everything off except for the sensor and then attach two omrons to the top of it for MB1 and MB2 it'll be REALLY light.


----------



## gooface

I just picked up this mouse the other day and I love it, makes my G500 feel aged with the new design. It is super comfortable and feels like a major upgrade. My only wish right now is, I wish you could dim the brightness of the light on the mouse other than just completely disabling it.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gooface*
> 
> I just picked up this mouse the other day and I love it, makes my G500 feel aged with the new design. It is super comfortable and feels like a major upgrade. My only wish right now is, I wish you could dim the brightness of the light on the mouse other than just completely disabling it.


I've heard that from a couple people.


----------



## Thunderbringer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i was thinking of removing the side button pcb along with the 2 side buttons and the sniper button, then the magnet to hold the door on plus the door.
> 
> Or i'm pretty sure the scroll wheel weights 16g. So if you remove the scroll wheel and don't replace it plus remove the magnets and weight door, you're probably right at 100g.


I plan to do the same (once i get the g502, probably in 1-2 weeks), but i dont think that the sidebuttons PCB weighs that much - however less weight is less weight







. Did not someone mention that the weight door is around 7 grams?

Also here is a pic of a g500 wheel, as it is now it weighs 11.5 grams. Swapping the metal part with plastic should result in 3-4 grams for the wheel alone. However the g502 wheel looks heavier, has someone the exact weight?


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


----------



## Forma

if only they made a left handed version


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderbringer*
> 
> I plan to do the same (once i get the g502, probably in 1-2 weeks), but i dont think that the sidebuttons PCB weighs that much - however less weight is less weight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Did not someone mention that the weight door is around 7 grams?
> 
> Also here is a pic of a g500 wheel, as it is now it weighs 11.5 grams. Swapping the metal part with plastic should result in 3-4 grams for the wheel alone. However the g502 wheel looks heavier, has someone the exact weight?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


i thought someone weighed it, but i can't find which thread he was posting the pics in. He weighed the door as well.


----------



## gooface

now that I got this mouse, I feel like I need a new mouse pad ( I am currently using a "XTRAC PADS Ripper Optical Mouse pad") my G502 feels like it is not smooth on this surface and doesn't move as smoothly as my G500 did. Any suggestions? I have always been a cloth mouse pad guy, I never went into the hard surface mouse pad territory.


----------



## majnu

I'm going to put mine on ebay, but I'm going to give it at least a week before deciding if it's the right thing to do.

Pros

- Sensor tracking is impeccable
- All button clicks are great and have perfect weight (not too light nor heavy to press)
- Rubberised sides are comfortable
- Hyperscroll wheel works well, but then I don't think I will ever need this for gaming. If it means removing the function to save weight then I think gamers would prefer this and then it would make sense to use the additional weights.
- Braiding is of good quality

Subjective:
- I find the weight perfect without adding any of the additional weights.
- The mouse is perfectly balanced, it's neither top or bottom heavy.

Cons:

- Cannot re-map up and down scroll wheel
- The G Blue light is too ******* bright. (I know you can turn it off but I wish you could at least dim it down)

Subjective:
- Scroll wheel is too heavy
- Scroll wheel is "notchy"
- For my fingertip/palm hybrid grip I find the sniper button is out of thumb's reach.
- Compared to the G700s I find the G502 doesn't mould into my hand to offer effortless control and movement

Going forward now that this sensor has been released I think it's a matter of time before it is introduced into the other G Series mice ranges. So if I cannot adjust to this mouse I will just pray and hope that they release a G700s with this sensor and sort out some of the criticisms raised. I've yet to try the mouse out on different surfaces, so I will see how it performs.


----------



## ejohnson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *majnu*
> 
> I'm going to put mine on ebay, but I'm going to give it at least a week before deciding if it's the right thing to do.
> 
> Pros
> 
> - Sensor tracking is impeccable
> - All button clicks are great and have perfect weight (not too light nor heavy to press)
> - Rubberised sides are comfortable
> - Hyperscroll wheel works well, but then I don't think I will ever need this for gaming. If it means removing the function to save weight then I think gamers would prefer this and then it would make sense to use the additional weights.
> - Braiding is of good quality
> 
> Subjective:
> - I find the weight perfect without adding any of the additional weights.
> - The mouse is perfectly balanced, it's neither top or bottom heavy.
> 
> Cons:
> 
> - Cannot re-map up and down scroll wheel
> - The G Blue light is too ******* bright. (I know you can turn it off but I wish you could at least dim it down)
> 
> Subjective:
> - Scroll wheel is too heavy
> - Scroll wheel is "notchy"
> - For my fingertip/palm hybrid grip I find the sniper button is out of thumb's reach.
> - Compared to the G700s I find the G502 doesn't mould into my hand to offer effortless control and movement
> 
> Going forward now that this sensor has been released I think it's a matter of time before it is introduced into the other G Series mice ranges. So if I cannot adjust to this mouse I will just pray and hope that they release a G700s with this sensor and sort out some of the criticisms raised. I've yet to try the mouse out on different surfaces, so I will see how it performs.


I agree with this entire post. The sniper button being just out of reach, the bright blue led, and the notchy wheel are my only gripes.

I do plan to pull the mouse apart, replace the blue led with a nice orange one, then put in some other color leds for the dpi adjustment bars.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gooface*
> 
> now that I got this mouse, I feel like I need a new mouse pad ( I am currently using a "XTRAC PADS Ripper Optical Mouse pad") my G502 feels like it is not smooth on this surface and doesn't move as smoothly as my G500 did. Any suggestions? I have always been a cloth mouse pad guy, I never went into the hard surface mouse pad territory.


i use the g240 and is awesome


----------



## Yodums

Just got the mouse today. For other Canadians waiting for the mouse, I got it at Canada Computers.

Pros:

Sensor is very responsive. Coming from a DA2013, there's a noticeable difference in the input lag between the two devices.
Button actuations are amazing. They're not too light (DA2013), and they're not too heavy (Zowie FK).
Overall construction of the mouse is solid. It's an expensive mouse, and I think the product shows for it.
Cons:

Sniper button is the most awkward thing on the mouse. I feel the grip on this mouse would be PERFECT if the sniper button wasn't there.
Not a fan of the wheel. The ridges on the wheel are deep, and spaced out quite a bit, so it feels awkward when you're using it. The feedback on the wheel is very noticeable. I personally liked my DA2013 wheel a lot.
Edit:

After spending an entire evening gaming with it on DotA2, I've decided that I'll be returning it. To me, the cons outweigh the pros. The sniper button makes gripping the mouse extremely inconsistent. You end up hitting the sniper button quite a bit when you palm the mouse, and then your palm kind of shies away from the mouse, making for an awkward claw grip. On the other hand, the DA2013 fits my hand like a glove, and my grip is always consistent with it.

The other con I couldn't get around was the wheel. It's too heavy and awkward to use. The weight makes the mouse seem "front heavy". It's awkward to use because of its huge notches. The DA2013 wheel is the best wheel I've used to date. It's light, it increments in small notches, rubber, and to put it simply, it's background noise you just don't pay attention to.

The physical features of this mouse is just a huge blunder. The ergonomics of this mouse is extremely poor. After going through a series of trials, I may just opt to stick with my DA2013 for as long as they make a semi-decent mouse. It's a design that I seem to come back to all the time.


----------



## mattavich

As a hardcore TF2 sniper the problem with this mouse is that I can't grip it properly and i'm missing more precise shots because of it. I can't get full control using the claw grip the way I can with my CM Recon mouse.


----------



## L4dd

*Yodums*, you should update your DeathAdder 2013 via Synapse, to see if there's a noticeable difference from reduced "smoothing":
http://www.overclock.net/t/1128321/the-deathadder-megathread/1410#post_22193394


----------



## majnu

A few people reporting that the PTFE feet are coming loose after a couple of weeks.
http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-series-Gaming-Mice/G502-Mouse-feet-issues/td-p/1239532

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n3cj8wp6fluzsaz/photo.JPG


----------



## Shockarn

To anyone that has got the g502, could you check if it's possible to change the dpi setting on the sniper button?
On my rat 7 i can change how much % less it should be from my current dpi. Hopefully it's something similar.


----------



## majnu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shockarn*
> 
> To anyone that has got the g502, could you check if it's possible to change the dpi setting on the sniper button?
> On my rat 7 i can change how much % less it should be from my current dpi. Hopefully it's something similar.


You can do that in LGS and assign a dpi shift or "sniper button assist" to anything and control the dpi settings in the software.
LGS doesn't give a % but allows you to assign a specific dpi to shift (when button is pressed) and default.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> *Yodums*, you should update your DeathAdder 2013 via Synapse, to see if there's a noticeable difference from reduced "smoothing":
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1128321/the-deathadder-megathread/1410#post_22193394


best news of the month! i hope it works...

but it updates synapse or the internal firmware?


----------



## mattavich

Does anyone know the native DPI for this mouse?


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mattavich*
> 
> Does anyone know the native DPI for this mouse?


every 50 dpi step from 200 to 12,000 is native


----------



## ronal

Lets just hope now they will put this sensor in a G100s and G9x shell.


----------



## test user

I appreciate Logitech taking the effort to actually work for better products (well at least sensors) instead of just offering crap to the unthinking masses.

But what exactly is the deal with the sensor? I've been hearing about it all over, but I've seen nobody talk about the tech specs. Is it based on some older sensor or is it Logitech work from the ground up? How can it have so high dpi and not suffer from side effects throughout the whole dpi range? How does it have so many native dpi steps? Is the max dpi the result of crazy amounts of extrapolation?

So do we know any technical details at all? This thread doesn't seem to contain much sensor-facts.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *test user*
> 
> I appreciate Logitech taking the effort to actually work for better products (well at least sensors) instead of just offering crap to the unthinking masses.
> 
> But what exactly is the deal with the sensor? I've been hearing about it all over, but I've seen nobody talk about the tech specs. Is it based on some older sensor or is it Logitech work from the ground up? How can it have so high dpi and not suffer from side effects throughout the whole dpi range? How does it have so many native dpi steps? Is the max dpi the result of crazy amounts of extrapolation?
> 
> So do we know any technical details at all? This thread doesn't seem to contain much sensor-facts.


Because there are none. At least no publicly available stats.
It is built "from the ground up", that's why it is not held back by the architectural weaknesses of older tech which was largely based on the A2020 still iirc. And that architecture was never meant for high dpi in the first place.

If the sensor ever comes available to the public, or at least to more brands like Razer or Roccat, we might see a fact sheet someday.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Because there are none. At least no publicly available stats.
> It is built "from the ground up", that's why it is not held back by the architectural weaknesses of older tech which was largely based on the A2020 still iirc. And that architecture was never meant for high dpi in the first place.
> 
> If the sensor ever comes available to the public, or at least to more brands like Razer or Roccat, we might see a fact sheet someday.


Can you use it at 12,000 dpi without jitter, though? It is smooth if you move the mouse fast, but try moving it very slow. (thin line pencil drawer/cursor in ms paint).
At 6000, dpi, I can see a little of it (zero at 3500). Is that just a limitation of such a high polling rate?
There is -no- smoothing whatsoever, though.


----------



## test user

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Because there are none. At least no publicly available stats.
> It is built "from the ground up", that's why it is not held back by the architectural weaknesses of older tech which was largely based on the A2020 still iirc. And that architecture was never meant for high dpi in the first place.
> 
> If the sensor ever comes available to the public, or at least to more brands like Razer or Roccat, we might see a fact sheet someday.


Thanks!

So Logitech probably put a good deal of effort on this one, starting from a blank table. It's like they're the only ones on the market that currently know what they're doing when it comes to sensors


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Can you use it at 12,000 dpi without jitter, though? It is smooth if you move the mouse fast, but try moving it very slow. (thin line pencil drawer/cursor in ms paint).
> At 6000, dpi, I can see a little of it (zero at 3500). Is that just a limitation of such a high polling rate?
> There is -no- smoothing whatsoever, though.


Takasta said in his review that it did tend to jitter a bit at the upper end of the DPI range.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Takasta said in his review that it did tend to jitter a bit at the upper end of the DPI range.


Pretty sure that's just going to be the way it is though. Your hand can only be so steady and imperfections in the surface at 12000 CPI are REALLY magnified.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Pretty sure that's just going to be the way it is though. Your hand can only be so steady and imperfections in the surface at 12000 CPI are REALLY magnified.


That's why I actually prefer SMOOOOOOOOTHING!!! I'm l337 enough that I only play at the upper end of my mouse capabilities. 12000DPI or bust. I'm just pissed that I can't find a 3" x 3" mouse pad. There's no reason to take up all of that space for something I'll never use.


----------



## deepor

Hey... the high DPI might get useful in ten years or so with an 8K resolution screen. If you today use 1800 DPI on a 1080p screen, then you'll want 3600 DPI on a 4K screen and 7200 DPI on a future 8K screen.

Something perhaps more useful like 1000 DPI today still doesn't look impressive, will only turn into 2000 DPI for 4K and 4000 DPI for 8K.


----------



## smog11

Welcome. As promised I am sending tests done on the machine - the logitech G502.

Fast - slow: 



Slow- fast: 




This mouse has no acceleration. Its perfekt.
In addition, during fast movements do not lose a certain amount of pixels as 3090 (or other elder sensor).

General tests show, that this sensor can be compared only with DA (i tested jitter [ appears above 3500d DPI ], V-max [6,39 m/s- (my new record) 1200 dpi on Nostromo xxxl], Average USB Rate 997 Hz (from enotus), VMouse benchmark shows that all resolutions were obtained natively. even 12000 DPI. Thats interesting.

for a few days I get 'em on (open them) and I say what sits in the inside.
when I have test of LOD i show you.
I don't play yet, so i cant say anything about feeling.


----------



## forthedisplay

12000 DPI or bust? HF with your 8K monitor then.

Higher DPIs have reasons for existing, but at some point things just get ******ed. There are basically four levels, the one you use for zoomed-in accuracy in photoshop, the one you're used to using, the one that feels too fast but you can get used to, and the one is just too high to even think about.

The mouse seems awesome, and I could use G400 with more buttons. That said, I'm a bit disappointed with the lack of buttons for the pinky, the third button on G600 is awesome and even the G300 extra buttons on the "wrong side" are usable. It is just that pinky is rarely used but if you force yourself into it then it will become natural. Also, the wheel doesn't look like one of the best.

Also, I'm wondering why logitech can't allow mwheel up / down mapping in their software. That said, hardly any more awesome company to buy mice from, my G600 had the sensor issues and they sent me a new one without wanting the old one back. All they required was a proof of purchase.

Sensor only does so much though, if you have a decent enough mouse already that you're comfortable with, then you'd probably benefit more from a strobed 120hz monitor.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *forthedisplay*
> 
> *12000 DPI or bust? HF with your 8K monitor then*.
> 
> Higher DPIs have reasons for existing, but at some point things just get ******ed. There are basically four levels, the one you use for zoomed-in accuracy in photoshop, the one you're used to using, the one that feels too fast but you can get used to, and the one is just too high to even think about.
> 
> The mouse seems awesome, and I could use G400 with more buttons. That said, I'm a bit disappointed with the lack of buttons for the pinky, the third button on G600 is awesome and even the G300 extra buttons on the "wrong side" are usable. It is just that pinky is rarely used but if you force yourself into it then it will become natural. Also, the wheel doesn't look like one of the best.
> 
> Also, I'm wondering why logitech can't allow mwheel up / down mapping in their software. That said, hardly any more awesome company to buy mice from, my G600 had the sensor issues and they sent me a new one without wanting the old one back. All they required was a proof of purchase.
> 
> Sensor only does so much though, if you have a decent enough mouse already that you're comfortable with, then you'd probably benefit more from a strobed 120hz monitor.


I've GOT to stop using sarcasm on this forum...


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smog11*
> 
> Welcome. As promised I am sending tests done on the machine - the logitech G502.
> 
> Fast - slow:
> 
> 
> 
> Slow- fast:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This mouse has no acceleration. Its perfekt.
> In addition, during fast movements do not lose a certain amount of pixels as 3090 (or other elder sensor).
> 
> General tests show, that this sensor can be compared only with DA (i tested jitter [ appears above 3500d DPI ], V-max [6,39 m/s- (my new record) 1200 dpi on Nostromo xxxl], Average USB Rate 997 Hz (from enotus), VMouse benchmark shows that all resolutions were obtained natively. even 12000 DPI. Thats interesting.
> 
> for a few days I get 'em on (open them) and I say what sits in the inside.
> when I have test of LOD i show you.
> I don't play yet, so i cant say anything about feeling.


That's awesome! Glad you had a chance to give it a go.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *forthedisplay*
> 
> The mouse seems awesome, and I could use G400 with more buttons. That said, I'm a bit disappointed with the lack of buttons for the pinky, the third button on G600 is awesome and even the G300 extra buttons on the "wrong side" are usable. It is just that pinky is rarely used but if you force yourself into it then it will become natural. Also, the wheel doesn't look like one of the best.


I think you mean the ring finger, not the pinky? That extra button on the G600 makes its top have the same general design like on the old three button mice from the time before there was a mouse wheel, so I'd grab it just like I did on those mice, with the pinky on the right side of the mouse, ring finger on that third button, middle finger on the one in the middle, index finger on the left button.

I really like the idea they had on the G600 and they should build some more mice with that extra button. On the other hand, I like to be able to grip a mouse with the ring finger on its right side, only index and middle finger on top of the mouse, like you're able to do on something like G502.


----------



## gooface

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *majnu*
> 
> A few people reporting that the PTFE feet are coming loose after a couple of weeks.
> http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-series-Gaming-Mice/G502-Mouse-feet-issues/td-p/1239532
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/n3cj8wp6fluzsaz/photo.JPG


Just ordered a G440 because of seeing this, I have owned mine since Monday but have barely used it. I noticed it dragged more than my G500 did and I don't want to take any chances. Plus I think switching from a cloth to hard surface will do me good anyways. The way I see it, $30 on a new mouse pad with some benefits from upgrading is way worth it rather than running into issues with my older one down the road and having to deal with that.

I have this mousepad:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817114174

I have noticed this:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bw5AnEr13p4QTlVTZnBONUxKRWs/edit?usp=sharing

on the little feet next to the sensor on the upper left side of the senor you can see part of the foot beginning to bend and loose stickiness to the mouse and they definitely moved from their original locations. I just bought a G440 to replace my mousepad because I see a common theme here and I think I am going to switch to a hard mousepad.

But the problem is, the damage is done, and it will only get worse with time. (its bairly starting but its there) I paid $80 for this mouse, and it already is starting to show wear on the feet, I bought this monday, and I havent used it at all for gaming, just casual browsing on the web.

I bought this mouse at BestBuy and I am thinking I will exchange it for another one if they will take it. It just is a dissapointment because I have never had issues like this before at all with logitech mice.

I noticed that this mouse had a lot more drag to it than my G500 on it and it was audiable when I used it. My G500 is super smooth on my current pad. looks like they didnt test this mouse out much on cloth pads. Unless someone else out there gets this mouse and has the same issue with a hard pad.

its almost like it should have more feet around the sensor instead of just on the top and bottom side of it. should fill the left and right side with feet too.


----------



## Phillychuck

Best Buy gives you 15 days to return for full refund. I just bought a G502 there today, exchanged a G602 after a week cause it was too heavy for my liking.

I have a gripe with mine, when the wheel is in free scroll mode you can sorta feel it flopping around when you move the mouse... is this normal?


----------



## gooface

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phillychuck*
> 
> Best Buy gives you 15 days to return for full refund. I just bought a G502 there today, exchanged a G602 after a week cause it was too heavy for my liking.
> 
> I have a gripe with mine, when the wheel is in free scroll mode you can sorta feel it flopping around when you move the mouse... is this normal?


I think I will exchange it for another (the only problem is the closest one to my house with this mouse in stock is next to where I work and 30 miles away so I will have to wait till tomorrow) I will give it another try with the hard mousepad.

mine does that too, my g500 did that as well.

I just hope the hard mousepad makes the difference.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phillychuck*
> 
> I have a gripe with mine, when the wheel is in free scroll mode you can sorta feel it flopping around when you move the mouse... is this normal?


yes, thats normal. I just kept mine in the other mode.


----------



## Omega215d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phillychuck*
> 
> Best Buy gives you 15 days to return for full refund. I just bought a G502 there today, exchanged a G602 after a week cause it was too heavy for my liking.
> 
> I have a gripe with mine, when the wheel is in free scroll mode you can sorta feel it flopping around when you move the mouse... is this normal?


I'd be careful about doing that when it comes to Best Buy. If you do return it they will scan your license or ID and put you into their system in which a 3rd party tracks your returns. Do it enough (nothing is specified) and you will no longer be able to return merchandise for 90 days.

I had a pair of earbuds that sounded pretty piss poor for the price and exchanged for a more expensive and better model after a couple days to give them a chance to break in if needed. A few weeks later I bought a router that gave me issues requiring a lot power cycling or resets so I returned it and bought an Asus elsewhere since BB didn't sell that particular one. Months later I buy a new phone only to have connectivity and speaker issues a few days later so I exchanged it for the same make and model. After that I received a warning that I would not be able to return any merchandise after the phone transaction. Had to go to MicroCenter to get a case for it (which they have a much better selection than Best Buy) which worked perfectly for my needs and bought the G502 right after. I have 30 days for the mouse but it works so well that I'll just deal with Logitech if anything comes up.

Spend thousands within a year, return a fraction of that price in items and if the next purchase ends up being defective I'm SOL. There's no definitive answer as to what will strike you out but I wouldn't risk it if you do a lot of shopping at Best Buy. Apparently exchanges do count as a return and they only seem to keep track of returns not purchases.


----------



## Malvolg

If your next purchase is actually defective as opposed to, say, something you just end up not liking, Best Buy *has* to let you return it. There are consumer protection laws that come into play when defective merchandise is involved.


----------



## Omega215d

.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Malvolg*
> 
> If your next purchase is actually defective as opposed to, say, something you just end up not liking, Best Buy *has* to let you return it. There are consumer protection laws that come into play when defective merchandise is involved.


Unfortunately that's not the case. They print you out a receipt that tells you to call a number for a company called The Retail Equation since they're the ones who flag you and that Best Buy cannot do anything for you as it's not them that's doing it. Best Buy blames TRE, TRE blames Best Buy or flat out tells you that the system says no and that they can't do anything for you. You also get some lazy sounding jerks on the TRE line who will offer no help even if the device is defective (Verizon will have to deal with any issues that come up from now on with my phone though I lose out on the cool color choice only available at Best Buy).

The phone was defective but still warranted a flag. I've also read about some other people having gone through something similar with them. It shouldn't be a problem if you seldom shop there but if you buy a mouse and it's not to your liking (not like you could actually try them out at the store anyhow) and exchange for something else, not like it and get something else then you risk losing out. Unless you have a credit card that will buy back the item or treat it as an unauthorized purchase and you return it to the card company.

Also, even if you don't like the product so what, you should return it. They don't have display models for a lot of the things in store and also, it may not play well when you actually start using it with your setup (there are too many people that defend that practice of banning). Just like with the phone case. I couldn't take it out of the box before purchasing it to see how it feels or if it'll suit me 100% in real world use. thankfully Microcenter opened up a store within 20 minutes walking distance from me.


----------



## Omega215d

Also, consumer protection laws aren't that protective. You can always send it back to the manufacturer for the same model. Unfortunately if you keep getting garbage from a garbage manufacturer then you are SOL when it comes to demanding a refund or they'll take their sweet ars time with it. example: Like when Logitech changed something in the Illuminated Keyboard so that it cannot be used for gaming if a popular key cluster was used, getting a replacement would be pointless as all Illuminated Keyboards going forward were shipped with that change.


----------



## Malvolg

Ah, didn't realize they used a third party to track returns. That definitely throws a wrench into things. I've bought and returned so many mice to Best Buy, lol. I've just been lucky with how the timing works out that no product has been flagged for me.

I guess I've also been lucky when it comes to merchants trying to deny me returns on defective merchandise. The two times or so I've had to mention the phrase "consumer protection laws" immediately resulted in the merchants caving. I feel like a douche retail customer when I do that, lol, but I'm not about to be out money when something is defective and I'm polite as possible when I bring it up.


----------



## Omega215d

Don't be, you bought something that you were hoping would be good and in real world use it didn't turn out that way. We are a far cry from people that buy TVs for big games and returning them after or cameras for a week vacation and returning them. The system they use really doesn't tally anything up or they won't be up front about how they calculate you being banned.

When I return things to MicroCenter I always end up buying bottles of BAWLS or soda for the trip home or I may end up with something else that ends up being more to my liking. Either way I'm walking outta that store with a beverage.. and possibly compressed air or cleaning wipes...

You also have to be careful about Amazon as well. They will flag/ close your account if you have a lot of returns regardless of purchases.

Keeping on topic: Take the reviews with a huge grain of salt. They may rave about a mouse but it turns out to be garbage for you and you have to either return it or pawn if off someone else. Buy a mouse and hope for the best. If you have to return it then return it/ exchange it and if that doesn't work out then return it and go somewhere else or wait for something better.

The G502 is a good mouse for many on here but it may not be for some so... Maybe Logitech can step up and start offering some kind of product trial?


----------



## Atavax

I guess that is how corporations try to avoid the backlash. Its not us not allowing you to return it, its a faceless company that you can't boycott...


----------



## mattavich

After spending about 20 hours over the past few days going back and forth between this and several of my other mice ive concluded that this mouse, is in fact the best mouse for me.

It took some time to get used to it, but it certainly does deliver when it comes to being all round awesome in tf2.

Its easy to say a mouse isnt perfect and return it, its harder to help get the best out of the mouse and utilize its pros vs moaning about the cons. I'm glad I stuck with it now.


----------



## Aventadoor

Cant u just drill alot of holes in it to save weight etc?
I'm kinda interested in this mice, but its too heavy


----------



## zaclye

i did not read through the whole thread, is the mouse-wheel up and mouse-wheel down bind-able?


----------



## gooface

for those that own it how many are using cloth vs hard surface?


----------



## LocutusH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zaclye*
> 
> i did not read through the whole thread, is the mouse-wheel up and mouse-wheel down bind-able?


Nope. Just the wheel left and right.


----------



## LocutusH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gooface*
> 
> for those that own it how many are using cloth vs hard surface?


I use a hard surface. A Func 1030˘2 L. I like the low friction. I also have a QCK, wich is nice with silicone spray, but nowhere near a hard pad. And a mionix sargas 320 too, but that has way to much friction also.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Cant u just drill alot of holes in it to save weight etc?
> I'm kinda interested in this mice, but its too heavy


In my opinion, it's better to wait to see where Logitech goes with the sensor next than to buy an $80 mouse and destroy it by drilling holes in it.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gooface*
> 
> for those that own it how many are using cloth vs hard surface?


Puretrak Talent here, but I've also tested it with a Roccat Taito, SS QCK Heavy, Zowie G-TF, and SS 9HD.


----------



## Aventadoor

Yeah.. It was sort of a joke









Make a facebook grp or something so hopefully logitech will see


----------



## CeeSA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mattavich*
> 
> ...
> Its easy to say a mouse isnt perfect and return it, its harder to help get the best out of the mouse and utilize its pros vs moaning about the cons. I'm glad I stuck with it now.


Because of many design/quality issues I think it is an misstep to reward Logitech with a lot of money for this.
Money is our most powerful thing, so better buy the right things for it.

If your exemplar has no issue - lucky you.


----------



## cloudpierre

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CeeSA*
> 
> Because of many design/quality issues


oh please


----------



## gooface

Well I just returned mine to BestBuy and I hope logitech comes out with an official response/ fix for the feet issue.


----------



## smog11

I played a while DA2013 and G502 and DA feeling for me is a little sharper. While this impression may be due to habituation to the shape. I do not like mice where you can not touch the thumb pad. Staying with DA.

edit: I opened it. Once submitted, however, I was a little spring

EDIT2: Sensor on G502 has signature: PMW3366DM-VWQU


----------



## Omega215d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aventadoor*
> 
> Yeah.. It was sort of a joke
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Make a facebook grp or something so hopefully logitech will see


No no, you see the holes will give it more performance and it'll be much faster!


----------



## Omega215d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gooface*
> 
> for those that own it how many are using cloth vs hard surface?


I'm mostly using the Razer Goliathus or Sharkoon Darkglider cloth pads. Occasionally I would use my SteelSeries 5L hybrid so not sure if that counts as hard.


----------



## Omega215d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CeeSA*
> 
> Because of many design/quality issues I think it is an misstep to reward Logitech with a lot of money for this.
> Money is our most powerful thing, so better buy the right things for it.
> 
> If your exemplar has no issue - lucky you.


Well in essence we are supporting their use of the sensor so hopefully it'll be in future products. I found the mouse shape to be perfect for my hand for palm/ fingertip gripping as all buttons are within reach without having me to second guess.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Omega215d*
> 
> Well in essence we are supporting their use of the sensor so hopefully it'll be in future products.


I don't think they will see it that way. Logitech will see the sales numbers where they want them and take their sweet time on releasing an alternative and better designed shell with this sensor. Hell, they might never bother because money is their one and only motivator.

Please people, if you don't find the mouse to fit your needs then return it and leave a constructive review wherever you purchased it from explaining why it got returned. If they release something in the future that better fits your needs then that's the time to reward them with your money.


----------



## bushzyxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gooface*
> 
> Well I just returned mine to BestBuy and I hope logitech comes out with an official response/ fix for the feet issue.


This is a common issue to every logitech mice, for ages now.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bushzyxx*
> 
> This is a common issue to every logitech mice, for ages now.


I used mice from Microsoft, Logitech, Razer, SteelSeries, CoolerMaster, Roccat over the last 10 years. None of the Logitech mice had the feet issue people described (lucky?).

Logitech mice:
Logitech ball mouse (don't know exact name)
Logitech MX1000
Logitech MX518 1600 dpi
Logitech MX518 1800 dpi small feet (silent realease)
Logitech MX518 1800 dpi G-Series feet (refresh)
Logitech MX518 The Dark Knight Limited Edition
Logitech Pilot Mouse 1000
Logitech G500
Logitech G400

Top 3 of all times (May 2014): Roccat Kone Pure Optical, Logitech G500, SteelSeries Xai


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*


I didn't say anything because the last Logitech mouse I really used was a very long time ago. I had several ball mice from Logitech. That was at a time before there were mouse wheels. Optical, I had some sort of Logitech Pilot shaped one (not sure of the name... just the bog standard symmetrical small Logitech mouse shape). That optical mouse was one of the first optical mice and was skipping on moving fast, couldn't really beat ball mice. Then I had both the MX300 and the MX500. Those were great after overclocking the USB port.

I always had that feet problem on my mice! They always came off. It happened on every single Logitech mouse I had, no exceptions. I simply glued them back on, didn't really think much of it.









But this was a seriously long time ago. After MX300 and MX500, I chose other brands so I don't feel I should judge anything about Logitech mouse feet coming off.


----------



## Omega215d

Never really had any skate issues on all the Logitech mice i've owned. The original feet on my MX-518 v1 are still in good condition while the feet on my MX500 have finally worn down to the surface. Same with the G500, the feet were worn due to the mat I was using but they still had life left in them until I ripped them off to get access to the internals to fix the scroll wheel after raging on it...

I hope the G502 won't have any problems with the skates. Though if worse comes to worse I'm sure the aftermarket ones will be better in some way or I'll just make my own using industrial PTFE tape.


----------



## CeeSA

Logitech shows good skates and also good 4-way mouse wheels (M705) in the past. But this time not.


----------



## bushzyxx

Logitech MX518 1800 dpi Logitech G400 - had multiple examples of those and all with ****ed up feets. the mx518v1 had the same but didn't deteriorate as fast due to the smaller size.


----------



## 428cobra

is there a way i can get it to track say like a 1/8th of inch off the pad?


----------



## Phillychuck

Long time ago I remember my Logitech feet glue breaking down if the mouse wasn't being used (ie, no pressure on the feet, just sitting in a box).

Sure, it's going to suck having the feet fall off and have to wait for Logitech to fix/replace the mouse, but I'm sure they will do it (for 3 years if need be).

After that, I'm sure there will be aftermarket feet, but by then there will be a new mouse with a 96,000 DPI sensor.


----------



## moonbogg

Using hard mouse pad and no issues. I can imagine those sharp feet catching on a soft mouse pad's fibers. I thought only noobs used soft mouse pads. Stop being so soft and go hard.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *moonbogg*
> 
> Using hard mouse pad and no issues. I can imagine those sharp feet catching on a soft mouse pad's fibers. I thought only noobs used soft mouse pads. Stop being so soft and go hard.


That's one of the more stupid statements I heard lately...

The feet on mine are perfect and I already threw it in my laptop bag quite a few times. Seeing how all of my Logitech mice have feet in perfect condition still after lots of years and some seem to have had the problem with each of theirs I'd think it's a matter of how you treat them.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> That's one of the more stupid statements I heard lately...
> 
> The feet on mine are perfect and I already threw it in my laptop bag quite a few times. Seeing how all of my Logitech mice have feet in perfect condition still after lots of years and some seem to have had the problem with each of theirs I'd think it's a matter of how you treat them.


could also be things related to climate, heat, and humidity.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> could also be things related to climate, heat, and humidity.


Whoops, you're right. I live in a relatively dry climate that's not often hot.


----------



## Omega215d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Whoops, you're right. I live in a relatively dry climate that's not often hot.


Then again I live in an area where climate changes quite drastically, sometimes during the week. So far my Logitech, or all my mice rather, have no issues with their skates and I really treat them like ish.


----------



## Puck

For those with mouse feet issues, do you move the mouse off the pad ever accidentally, or are you using an old raggedy cloth pad with snares? Only thing I can think of besides a defective batch or feet is that the mouse is sliding off the pad and catching the edge.

I was one of the first to get a G502, almost a month ago on the day it released, and my feet all still look fine. Using a hard pad as well which is tougher on the feet then a cloth.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *smog11*
> 
> Welcome. As promised I am sending tests done on the machine - the logitech G502.
> 
> Fast - slow:
> 
> 
> 
> Slow- fast:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This mouse has no acceleration. Its perfekt.
> In addition, during fast movements do not lose a certain amount of pixels as 3090 (or other elder sensor).
> 
> General tests show, that this sensor can be compared only with DA (i tested jitter [ appears above 3500d DPI ], V-max [6,39 m/s- (my new record) 1200 dpi on Nostromo xxxl], Average USB Rate 997 Hz (from enotus), VMouse benchmark shows that all resolutions were obtained natively. even 12000 DPI. Thats interesting.
> 
> for a few days I get 'em on (open them) and I say what sits in the inside.
> when I have test of LOD i show you.
> I don't play yet, so i cant say anything about feeling.


Nice!


----------



## discoprince

Got mine on release day as well, no issues and I don't even play with the cover on the bottom. Glides really great.

I've used it on:
L Black Artisan Hayate
L Red Artisan Hein Soft
S Red Artisan Hein Hard
Steelseries QcK Heavy
Razer Goliathus Speed


----------



## the1onewolf

How's the mousefeet glide?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> Got mine on release day as well, no issues and I don't even play with the cover on the bottom. Glides really great.
> 
> I've used it on:
> L Black Artisan Hayate
> L Red Artisan Hein Soft
> S Red Artisan Hein Hard
> Steelseries QcK Heavy
> Razer Goliathus Speed


A little off topic but I wanted to ask, is there a huge difference between the Hein Hard and Soft?


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1onewolf*
> 
> How's the mousefeet glide?
> A little off topic but I wanted to ask, is there a huge difference between the Hein Hard and Soft?


I bought the "Hard" mat after the soft one, its kind of cool how it works.
The difference between the two is how flexible they are (if you can roll the mat up or not) and the density of the rubber under the surface texture.

So the soft can be rolled up and is pliable and you can push your thumb down into it to make an impression and is more comfortable on the wrist.

The hard is much less flexible, it can be bent but I wouldn't go so far as to roll it up. When I push my thumb down into the surface to make any kind of impression, I cant, because the surface of it is "hard". I'm using quotes because its not as hard as a hard pad would be (obviously) but its not quite a soft pad either.

If a soft mat and a hard pad had a baby it would be the Artisan "Hard" line of pads.

So the only difference between the soft and hard hein's is how dense the rubber is under the mousing surface, which is the exact same on both pads.


----------



## the1onewolf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> I bought the "Hard" mat after the soft one, its kind of cool how it works.
> The difference between the two is how flexible they are (if you can roll the mat up or not) and the density of the rubber under the surface texture.
> 
> So the soft can be rolled up and is pliable and you can push your thumb down into it to make an impression and is more comfortable on the wrist.
> 
> The hard is much less flexible, it can be bent but I wouldn't go so far as to roll it up. When I push my thumb down into the surface to make any kind of impression, I cant, because the surface of it is "hard". I'm using quotes because its not as hard as a hard pad would be (obviously) but its not quite a soft pad either.
> 
> If a soft mat and a hard pad had a baby it would be the Artisan "Hard" line of pads.
> 
> So the only difference between the soft and hard hein's is how dense the rubber is under the mousing surface, which is the exact same on both pads.


Thanks, that was a great explanation!
Does the different hardness for the middle layer make the mouse easier/harder to stop as shown in this chart?

Or do you feel that the difference is less pronounced and more subtle.

Thanks again!


----------



## gregoire

I have now this tremendous G502 with a G440 pad and I love them both (I don't play any game at all and I haven't even configured the extra buttons due to lack of time, just used Virtualbox to turn the led off) it's by far the best mouse I ever tried.


----------



## smog11

G502:
optic sensor: PMW3366DM
main switch Omron18Z3C41 D2FC-F-7N(20M)
dpi switch Omron 26X3C41 D2FC-F-7N
side switch ZIP 349


----------



## jologskyblues

My G502 doesn't have any mouse feet issues with the Artisan Hayate M Soft cloth mouse pad.

IBest sensor tracking on the Hayate I've experienced and this mouse pad is not optical friendly according to the manufacturer. Beats the G9x and Naos 8200 laser mice as well as the Naos 3200 and DA2013 opticals I've tried on the same pad.

I hate the mouse wheel on the G502 though. Logitech should've gotten rid of the freewheeling feature and the heavy metallic wheel and use a more conventional but higher quality feel scroll wheel instead while retaining the tilt sidescroll buttons.


----------



## pingoat

My Razer Naga crapped out last night and costed me quite a bit in EvE =/. Picked one of these up today. Very impressed so far, only con I've noticed is when you use all the weights, on the Roccat Alumic Mousepad the bottom material scratches. If I remove all the weights minus 2 its fine but I'd prefer my mice on the heavy side.


----------



## Chuck89

So, could any user of the G502 here experience the problem that the scroll wheel randomly doesnt register any movement?
For example, when youre playing a game like bf4 and you want to change your weapon, but nothing happens when youre scrolling up/down.

My G502 had this exact problem and this was one of the reasons why i returned it.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuck89*
> 
> So, could any user of the G502 here experience the problem that the scroll wheel randomly doesnt register any movement?
> For example, when youre playing a game like bf4 and you want to change your weapon, but nothing happens when youre scrolling up/down.
> 
> My G502 had this exact problem and this was one of the reasons why i returned it.


Nope, always registers. As long as you don't scroll suuuuper slow. But with the normal scroll function every notch registered anyway.

Btw you should not switch weapons with mwheel, it's unreliable anyway. That's beside the point of a faulty wheel, just something that I would do if I were you and wanted to improve my gaming consistency.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Btw you should not switch weapons with mwheel, it's unreliable anyway. That's beside the point of a faulty wheel, just something that I would do if I were you and wanted to improve my gaming consistency.


Selecting weapons with the wheel is reliable if you use it to directly switch to only two weapons instead of circle through all of them. I mean using it as if wheel up and down were two buttons, and then configure for example scroll down = railgun, scroll up = shotgun.


----------



## Kni9ht

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuck89*
> 
> So, could any user of the G502 here experience the problem that the scroll wheel randomly doesnt register any movement?
> For example, when youre playing a game like bf4 and you want to change your weapon, but nothing happens when youre scrolling up/down.
> 
> My G502 had this exact problem and this was one of the reasons why i returned it.


No, fine here since the day I've had it. It's really a great mouse, for me anyways.

Only problem I have with it is that it collects an ungodly amount of dust on the edges of the mouse feet, gonna have to order some spares probably.


----------



## Phillychuck

The glossy plastic on the front of mine seems to be a hair/dust magnet.


----------



## Deadeye

so does who have this mouse how you would compare sensor performance for example with Rival? DA 2013 (April Update)? does it feel alot better more accurate?


----------



## Nixtix

I just got the mouse a few days ago and as other people have indicated already the sensor is amazing. Some things that really annoy me though are the dumb weight customization, it was useless in the G9x and G500 and is still useless today. The mouse is close to being borderline heavy (much lighter than the G9x) and adding even more weights would just hurt your hands in the long run especially for lower sens gamers. I don't understand why Logitech keeps pulling this one on us......

The overall shape of the mouse in terms of comfort is not too bad, the only change I would make is make the side where your pinky and ringer finger rest go slightly more outward not inward towards the mouse. Another big con for this mouse is the volcanic islands of mouse feet, although they seem to work and are fairly slick, the arrangement of 6 different sized feet is a complete joke and will make replacing feet a hassle as well. All in all though I'm not sure yet if I'll replace my DA 2013 with this mouse, but I am going to give it a go for another couple of weeks.


----------



## Atavax

my replacement g502 should be arriving tomorrow!


----------



## xmr1

I've used the G502 exclusively for the past 2 weeks or so and spent a ton of hours practicing with it, but unfortunately I've decided it just wasn't a fit for my needs. Even though the sniper button is silly and I hated the scroll wheel, that's not something that's really going to impact my performance so I could live with it. However, as a fairly high level CSGO player (LEM rank) in a game where precision is key, I could only play at maybe 80-90% of my usual level due to the weight of the mouse.

I could still aim well in general, but there are particular motions and shots that I find are so much easier to make with a mouse 100g or preferably even a bit lower. Apologies if I'm not using the correct terminology here, but the inertia made it hard to do things like 1-2 pixel adjustments, small range flicks, and controlling 2-3 shot burst recoil. Plus the momentum made it hard to control wider flick shots and often left me overshooting my mark. I don't mean to be rude, but casual/low level players probably won't notice these things.

The weight also caused fatigue that further hampered my performance. Not in the sense that it made my arm heavy and exhausted, it was more like whatever tendons and muscles are used in intense aiming became slightly strained after an hour or two and I could not aim as well as when I first start playing.

I'll probably still keep the G502 around in my collection just in case, but for now I'll be going back to the Avior. I don't love the Avior shape, but the weight is much more acceptable and in general I find the minimalistic design of the mouse more tailored towards serious FPS gaming. The G502 sensor is just about perfect, but if I have to choose, and I do, I'll take any smoothing the 3310 sensor in the Avior may have over the extra weight in the G502. I simply want to perform at my best and the G502 did not allow this.

I really feel like if Logitech took the G100s design and G502 sensor, then added Avior-style DPI buttons, thumb buttons (left side only), and mouse feet (and no weird sensor foot), it would be absolutely amazing. If Logitech came out with something like this, I think we would finally start to see the brand back on the map of FPS gamers, to say the least.


----------



## CeeSA

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuck89*
> 
> So, could any user of the G502 here experience the problem that the scroll wheel randomly doesnt register any movement?
> ....


In my one day test, I felt that very fast scrolls miss some movement. With other mice I did not have this effect.


----------



## Craftyman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Nope, always registers. As long as you don't scroll suuuuper slow. But with the normal scroll function every notch registered anyway.
> 
> Btw you should not switch weapons with mwheel, it's unreliable anyway. That's beside the point of a faulty wheel, just something that I would do if I were you and wanted to improve my gaming consistency.


Vouching for both the things you said. The mouse wheel click is VERY tactile on this mouse, I would say it's like having a cherry MX blue for a mouse wheel and it never misses a beat. It's indescribably enjoyable.

Also you should really wean yourself off of switching weapons with the mouse wheel. That's what 1, 2 and 3 keys are for


----------



## majnu

With regards to the wheel and gaming, will there be a firmware fix to enable us to use the up and down scroll to assign to a function?

At the moment both up and down scroll in battlefield 3 is treated as Axis 2xy.


----------



## Mastoras78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> I've used the G502 exclusively for the past 2 weeks or so and spent a ton of hours practicing with it, but unfortunately I've decided it just wasn't a fit for my needs. Even though the sniper button is silly and I hated the scroll wheel, that's not something that's really going to impact my performance so I could live with it. However, as a fairly high level CSGO player (LEM rank) in a game where precision is key, I could only play at maybe 80-90% of my usual level due to the weight of the mouse.
> 
> I could still aim well in general, but there are particular motions and shots that I find are so much easier to make with a mouse 100g or preferably even a bit lower. Apologies if I'm not using the correct terminology here, but the inertia made it hard to do things like 1-2 pixel adjustments, small range flicks, and controlling 2-3 shot burst recoil. Plus the momentum made it hard to control wider flick shots and often left me overshooting my mark. I don't mean to be rude, but casual/low level players probably won't notice these things.
> 
> The weight also caused fatigue that further hampered my performance. Not in the sense that it made my arm heavy and exhausted, it was more like whatever tendons and muscles are used in intense aiming became slightly strained after an hour or two and I could not aim as well as when I first start playing.
> 
> I'll probably still keep the G502 around in my collection just in case, but for now I'll be going back to the Avior. I don't love the Avior shape, but the weight is much more acceptable and in general I find the minimalistic design of the mouse more tailored towards serious FPS gaming. The G502 sensor is just about perfect, but if I have to choose, and I do, I'll take any smoothing the 3310 sensor in the Avior may have over the extra weight in the G502. I simply want to perform at my best and the G502 did not allow this.
> 
> I really feel like if Logitech took the G100s design and G502 sensor, then added Avior-style DPI buttons, thumb buttons (left side only), and mouse feet (and no weird sensor foot), it would be absolutely amazing. If Logitech came out with something like this, I think we would finally start to see the brand back on the map of FPS gamers, to say the least.


Wow man thanx for this post. It proves that people can still communicate and be objective providing constructive feedback. I was reading this amazing guide http://www.overclock.net/t/951894/the-truthful-mouse-guide and i would like to point this from the above topic :

What mouse should i get? Criteria ?
1.Shape (Personal Preference)
2.Size (Personal Preference)
3.Weight (Personal Preference)
4.Build Quality
5.RMA Support
6.Perfect Control Speed/Malfunction Speed
7.Sensor Position(usualy preffered to be centre)
8.Price (DUHHHHH)

After 100+ pages on this topic i think its safe to say that G502 is a good all around gaming mouse with the best sensor available today. *Not* the best fps-rts-mmo mouse, but a decent overall solution. I will insist and say again the real big news is the new sensor. Now lets sit back and wait for improved upcoming products from logitech that covers most consumers special needs. Future looks promising for the next g100, g600 or whatever someone is dreaming.


----------



## Victor_Mizer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mastoras78*
> 
> *Not* the best fps-rts-mmo mouse, but a decent overall solution.


Best mouse I've used in a FPS so far. I previously used a DA2013 and FK. Are people saying those gimmicky 20 button mice are "best" for MMOs? RTS games need a specific mouse, lol, what? To me it's all about the sensor performance. Weight and shape are easily adaptable.


----------



## mnick

Guys, I had a small rounded magnet in box, which might be 1 mm too high, but it also might be a light replacement for that heavy bottom plate. Gliding is much better, and I do not loose any signal at all.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mnick*
> 
> Guys, I had a small rounded magnet in box, which might be 1 mm too high, but it also might be a light replacement for that heavy bottom plate. Gliding is much better, and I do not loose any signal at all.


If you don't want to have the bottom plate on (which is perfectly reasonable) then why would you need to use the magnet from the box? What function does said magnet have? If you don't want to use the bottom plate, don't, and you don't need to use the other magnet either, you can just leave it as is.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> I've used the G502 exclusively for the past 2 weeks or so and spent a ton of hours practicing with it, but unfortunately I've decided it just wasn't a fit for my needs. Even though the sniper button is silly and I hated the scroll wheel, that's not something that's really going to impact my performance so I could live with it. However, as a fairly high level CSGO player (LEM rank) in a game where precision is key, I could only play at maybe 80-90% of my usual level due to the weight of the mouse.
> 
> I could still aim well in general, but there are particular motions and shots that I find are so much easier to make with a mouse 100g or preferably even a bit lower. Apologies if I'm not using the correct terminology here, but the inertia made it hard to do things like 1-2 pixel adjustments, small range flicks, and controlling 2-3 shot burst recoil. Plus the momentum made it hard to control wider flick shots and often left me overshooting my mark. I don't mean to be rude, but casual/low level players probably won't notice these things.
> 
> The weight also caused fatigue that further hampered my performance. Not in the sense that it made my arm heavy and exhausted, it was more like whatever tendons and muscles are used in intense aiming became slightly strained after an hour or two and I could not aim as well as when I first start playing.
> 
> I'll probably still keep the G502 around in my collection just in case, but for now I'll be going back to the Avior. I don't love the Avior shape, but the weight is much more acceptable and in general I find the minimalistic design of the mouse more tailored towards serious FPS gaming. The G502 sensor is just about perfect, but if I have to choose, and I do, I'll take any smoothing the 3310 sensor in the Avior may have over the extra weight in the G502. I simply want to perform at my best and the G502 did not allow this.
> 
> I really feel like if Logitech took the G100s design and G502 sensor, then added Avior-style DPI buttons, thumb buttons (left side only), and mouse feet (and no weird sensor foot), it would be absolutely amazing. If Logitech came out with something like this, I think we would finally start to see the brand back on the map of FPS gamers, to say the least.


I would say it depends on your whole setup. I mean your (ig) sensitivity, type and size of mouse pad and whatnot. I also had that problem when I was still playing CS on regular basis (2-6, sometimes 8-10 hours a day) with the G500, but that disappeared when I increased my sensitivity and switched from cloth (Goliathus Speed) to plastic pad (9HD). Of course I needed time to adapt to the whole new situation, so to speak, but then it was just so much more comfortable and the weight problem of the G500 was gone. I'm just saying it's personal preference how good someone can get on the setup he/she wants to use.


----------



## mnick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> If you don't want to have the bottom plate on (which is perfectly reasonable) then why would you need to use the magnet from the box? What function does said magnet have? If you don't want to use the bottom plate, don't, and you don't need to use the other magnet either, you can just leave it as is.


It stops the mouse from tilting left, also I feel like it improves gliding. With this magnet the mouse is rock stable.


----------



## Juicedmarine

I just picked up a G502 today and will try it out once I get home. I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who did all the testing on this mouse and took the time to post the info here!
I am currently using the Zowie Ec2, I am a low sense gamer so I hope the weight is not as big of an issue as everyone is saying.


----------



## Agrippa619

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juicedmarine*
> 
> I just picked up a G502 today and will try it out once I get home. I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who did all the testing on this mouse and took the time to post the info here!
> I am currently using the Zowie Ec2, I am a low sense gamer so I hope the weight is not as big of an issue as everyone is saying.


Please report back when you try the mouse a bit. I'm probably replacing my Zowie FK with a g502 and I want to know how the transition feels for you







Hope you love the mouse!


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mnick*
> 
> Guys, I had a small rounded magnet in box, which might be 1 mm too high, but it also might be a light replacement for that heavy bottom plate. Gliding is much better, and I do not loose any signal at all.


The magnet in the box is simply to keep the front flap of the box closed.


----------



## Kni9ht

Those of you on 8.1 and running the mouse at a 1000hz.. I'm a bit curious what your mouse rate looks like with the mouse rate checker program.


----------



## Phillychuck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kni9ht*
> 
> Those of you on 8.1 and running the mouse at a 1000hz.. I'm a bit curious what your mouse rate looks like with the mouse rate checker program.


Windows 8.1 update 1:


----------



## Mastoras78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kni9ht*
> 
> Those of you on 8.1 and running the mouse at a 1000hz.. I'm a bit curious what your mouse rate looks like with the mouse rate checker program.


If you move your mouse slow this is normal


----------



## Kni9ht

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mastoras78*
> 
> If you move your mouse slow this is normal


Even moving it fast provides some inconsistent results, at least compared to the guy above me.


----------



## Ricey20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kni9ht*
> 
> Even moving it fast provides some inconsistent results, at least compared to the guy above me.


Are you using a usb 2.0 or 3.0 slot? If you're using 2.0 try plugging it into a 3.0. I believe a few people had issues with their mouse that was in a 2.0 slot.


----------



## fuzzybass

Had this mouse for about a week. I absolutely loved the grip, but I can't stand the weight.









Going back to the Deathadder, for now. If they made the exact same mouse, but with a lighter weight, I would be all over it. A G402 perhaps? Hmmmmmm?


----------



## yogalD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mastoras78*
> 
> If you move your mouse slow this is normal


I'm pretty sure there's a known issue with Windows 8 and mouse input...


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CeeSA*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Chuck89*
> 
> So, could any user of the G502 here experience the problem that the scroll wheel randomly doesnt register any movement?
> ....
> 
> 
> 
> In my one day test, I felt that very fast scrolls miss some movement. With other mice I did not have this effect.
Click to expand...

When it click mode it will skip if you spin the wheel very fast because it's a mechanical action, it's registering a movement with each notch instead of just scanning for movement, if you spin it fast it's skipping on top of notches instead of going in them thus registering nothing. It's done i assume to insure that movement is recorded with the notches when switched to notched mode instead of just wheel movement.


----------



## Juicedmarine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Agrippa619*
> 
> Please report back when you try the mouse a bit. I'm probably replacing my Zowie FK with a g502 and I want to know how the transition feels for you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope you love the mouse!


As everyone has said the sensor is unlike anything I have ever used, its amazing. With that said the mouse is a touch to heavy and it might just be I have big thumbs but the thumb rest on the mouse needs to go. My thumb as a result of it is constantly hitting mouse 4 and mouse 5 buttons. It's is super annoying. Also left and right mouse buttons feel great!.


----------



## Ice009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> my replacement g502 should be arriving tomorrow!


I may have missed it, what was the reason that you requested a replacement for?


----------



## majnu

I'm slightly disappointed with Logitech as G is meant to be Gamer Series. I know this is aimed at gaming enthusiasts and that shape depends on grip style and comfort but the weight and scroll wheel seems an after thought.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *majnu*
> 
> I'm slightly disappointed with Logitech as G is meant to be Gamer Series. I know this is aimed at gaming enthusiasts and that shape depends on grip style and comfort but the weight and scroll wheel seems an after thought.


Weight and scroll-wheel are preferences, scroll-wheels are not at all important to games. Anytime you have a scroll-wheel in a game i never use it, it's too finicky i rather use their equivalent keyboard binding which keeps my fingers on the mouse buttons. Weight is also a preference, you prefer the weight you're used to basically the weight of w.e mouse you have already is the weight you learned is what a mouse should be. Noticeable changes is weight cause a backlash because it feels different as a result not that weight in itself is bad. Weight doesn't cause extra ordinary stress on using the mouse, it's your knowledge of the weight and you're perceptions of that weight that shape your idea's of how much it's stressing you out. Like anything give it 2 weeks to set it before casting judgement, initial impressions are shallow impressions which are often misguided only useful in avoiding danger.


----------



## Puck

I let a good friend of mine use my G502. He is another FPS gamer that grew up with games like UT99 and Quake, so mostly plays twitch style shooters. Currently using a DA 2013 because he likes the shape, but is not a big fan of the performance and it feels cheap.

He said that the sensor is amazing, but he doesn't really like the shape for his grip and would have to get used to it. I understand that since it is so drastically different from what he currently uses, but what surprised me was that he actually said he wanted to ADD weight to it, since he likes a heavy mouse and says he feels like he has more control with a heavy mouse, lol. Just goes to show how opinionated certain things are. He is probably the first I've seen to say that he wanted the mouse heavier, and wants me to bring the weight tray so he can play with the weight and bias.

**edit** before some 16yo kid waves their e-peen around and calls him a noob or something for liking heavy mice, he is 31 years old so has been gaming for ages, and is an absolute beast at UT 2K4 and still plays it from time to time. I can beat him in UT99, but he beats me in 2K4 as much as I hate to say it







.


----------



## Shockarn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> I let a good friend of mine use my G502. He is another FPS gamer that grew up with games like UT99 and Quake, so mostly plays twitch style shooters. Currently using a DA 2013 because he likes the shape, but is not a big fan of the performance and it feels cheap.
> 
> He said that the sensor is amazing, but he doesn't really like the shape for his grip and would have to get used to it. I understand that since it is so drastically different from what he currently uses, but what surprised me was that he actually said he wanted to ADD weight to it, since he likes a heavy mouse and says he feels like he has more control with a heavy mouse, lol. Just goes to show how opinionated certain things are. He is probably the first I've seen to say that he wanted the mouse heavier, and wants me to bring the weight tray so he can play with the weight and bias.
> 
> **edit** before some 16yo kid waves their e-peen around and calls him a noob or something for liking heavy mice, he is 31 years old so has been gaming for ages, and is an absolute beast at UT 2K4 and still plays it from time to time. I can beat him in UT99, but he beats me in 2K4 as much as I hate to say it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I got my g502 today and the first thing i did was to put all the weights in it







Still not as heavy (*light) as my rat 7 (145g vs 171g) so i hope that logitech delivers heavier weights in the next mouse with this sensor.

The only problem i have with the mouse beside the lack of weight is the sniper button/dpi shift, it's too easy to press it, not like rat 7 where you need to use quite a bit of force to press it.

If they would fix those things it would be the best mouse on the planet =)


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ice009*
> 
> I may have missed it, what was the reason that you requested a replacement for?


the tests i was doing was showing some acceleration so cpate requested that i send mine in.

Doesn't appear to be getting acceleration with this one.

i am definitely getting right clicks when my finger isn't on the rmb from putting the mouse down too hard on the pad after lifting to reposition it. Hopefully they fix that in their next mouse.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> I let a good friend of mine use my G502. He is another FPS gamer that grew up with games like UT99 and Quake, so mostly plays twitch style shooters. Currently using a DA 2013 because he likes the shape, but is not a big fan of the performance and it feels cheap.
> 
> He said that the sensor is amazing, but he doesn't really like the shape for his grip and would have to get used to it. I understand that since it is so drastically different from what he currently uses, but what surprised me was that he actually said he wanted to ADD weight to it, since he likes a heavy mouse and says he feels like he has more control with a heavy mouse, lol. Just goes to show how opinionated certain things are. He is probably the first I've seen to say that he wanted the mouse heavier, and wants me to bring the weight tray so he can play with the weight and bias.
> 
> **edit** before some 16yo kid waves their e-peen around and calls him a noob or something for liking heavy mice, he is 31 years old so has been gaming for ages, and is an absolute beast at UT 2K4 and still plays it from time to time. I can beat him in UT99, but he beats me in 2K4 as much as I hate to say it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Wait, what was yours (and his) name in UT2k4? I could've sworn now I saw you on Ratman's back in the day...or was it on 1v1 Chicago?


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Wait, what was yours (and his) name in UT2k4? I could've sworn now I saw you on Ratman's back in the day...or was it on 1v1 Chicago?


Ive always went by Puck but did a lot more 99 then 2k4. Youve probably seen him though, he uses Appleseed now but back then i think he played as [SD]Mexi. He's pretty beast, and we're both stoked for a new one to see who is better lol.


----------



## Omega215d

I also like having a mouse that's a bit on the heavier side of things compared to most members on here for the same reason your friend has, in which that I have better control. Provided that the sensor doesn't do anything funky like stray off or not register movement in a timely manner. I have to note that I do get the RMB click only when I slam the mouse down much harder than I normally do during a heated match.

I used to do Quake based games and moved on to CoD, Battlefield and of course the time tested Counter-Strike. I used to do UT99, Planetside, and Star Craft... maybe I'll get back into SC. For now I spend more time on BF4 and CS for online gaming but more time with single player games.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> the tests i was doing was showing some acceleration so cpate requested that i send mine in.
> 
> Doesn't appear to be getting acceleration with this one.
> 
> i am definitely getting right clicks when my finger isn't on the rmb from putting the mouse down too hard on the pad after lifting to reposition it. Hopefully they fix that in their next mouse.


I think this is the first time I've heard that a mouse malfunction is causing accel. I find it worrying as the casuals propably wouldn't notice such a fault and would propably keep playing with a faulty mouse.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> I think this is the first time I've heard that a mouse malfunction is causing accel. I find it worrying as the casuals propably wouldn't notice such a fault and would propably keep playing with a faulty mouse.


It was a very early sample, might have been some FW error, older FW or one with a bigger setting. It was also the only case where accel was found so far.
And even if, as long as you don't feel the accel you are not affected by it. IMO.


----------



## Ukkooh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> It was a very early sample, might have been some FW error, older FW or one with a bigger setting. It was also the only case where accel was found so far.
> And even if, as long as you don't feel the accel you are not affected by it. IMO.


I'm not an expert but I'm fairly sure that your muscle memory will be affected even though you can't tell it consciously.


----------



## Malvolg

Replacement parts for the G502 are now available on the Logitech store (feet, weight door, weights):

http://buy.logitech.com/store/logib2c/en_US/DisplayCategoryProductListPage/categoryid.67820700


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Malvolg*
> 
> Replacement parts for the G502 are now available on the Logitech store (feet, weight door, weights):
> 
> http://buy.logitech.com/store/logib2c/en_US/DisplayCategoryProductListPage/categoryid.67820700


Dang, $2 for the feet but $6 for shipping







. I'll wait for Hyperglide to come out with a set lol.I tried the whole teflon roll thing because they are cheap, but they are super thin so need to be placed on top of existing feet and they wear out crazy fast on a hard pad no matter how often you clean it.

I bet some performance feet will help reduce the effect of the weight when tracking (wont help much for you mouse-lifters on low sens tho).


----------



## 2shellbonus

Okay so I go the mouse

Impressions:
Sensor good.

Bad:
Sniper button is annoying. Especially coming from a g400. Forces you to hold the muse a certain way. Meh
Wheel is a tad heavy.

Will have to get used to it though, as I really like the texture and the feel.


----------



## BaddParrot

I bought a Logitech G500 on 9/16/11 for $45.99 (Great Price).

The last 2 months it has been acting up. It disconnects randomly from my pc & reconnects.

My warranty still has 4 months left on it (3 years) so I called Logitech today.

They confirmed it was a hardware issue. I emailed them a Picture of my old receipt & they are mailing me a Brand new G502.

The kicker is they are letting me keep the old G500. The G500 is still fine for most every day crap But CAN piss me off when I'm gaming & it acts up.

I have to give Logitech 2 thumbs up for the support on this!


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ukkooh*
> 
> I think this is the first time I've heard that a mouse malfunction is causing accel. I find it worrying as the casuals propably wouldn't notice such a fault and would propably keep playing with a faulty mouse.


No one else has reported the issue. It appears to be an anomaly.


----------



## Ice009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> the tests i was doing was showing some acceleration so cpate requested that i send mine in.
> 
> Doesn't appear to be getting acceleration with this one.
> 
> i am definitely getting right clicks when my finger isn't on the rmb from putting the mouse down too hard on the pad after lifting to reposition it. Hopefully they fix that in their next mouse.


Hmm hopefully this isn't an issue where some have acceleration due to a fault or quality control. I thought the acceleration thing was because of your USB ports, I thought you mentioned that you changed it to either a USB 2 or USB 3 port and then didn't have any acceleration?

I just went ahead and ordered a Logitech G502 and PureTrak Talent, as we're starting to get stock here in Australia now. The other good thing about buying from that store is that they are one of the only stores in Australia that even have the PureTrak Talent for sale, which is pretty cool. Seems like the PureTrak Talent is hard to get a hold of here.

Hopefully, I will like the shape and feel of it better than my G5 V2 (I mostly palm grip). My main other worries/issues are the sniper button (whether or not it gets in the way of my normal grip) and also the scroll wheel. I don't think the weight is going to bother me too much, I think I'll be OK with that. If I don't like one or more of those three aspects of the mouse, then I might take a look at the Mionix NAOS.

The main reason I chose the Logitech is because of the sensor, build quality (I don't want to be sending my mouse back all the time for RMA like some people are doing with other brands) and the 3 year warranty Vs the 1 year that Mionix has here.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Juicedmarine*
> 
> As everyone has said the sensor is unlike anything I have ever used, its amazing. With that said the mouse is a touch to heavy and it might just be I have big thumbs but the thumb rest on the mouse needs to go. My thumb as a result of it is constantly hitting mouse 4 and mouse 5 buttons. It's is super annoying. Also left and right mouse buttons feel great!.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> It was a very early sample, might have been some FW error, older FW or one with a bigger setting. It was also the only case where accel was found so far.
> And even if, as long as you don't feel the accel you are not affected by it. IMO.


can the firmware be updated to resolve the accel issue (if present?)


----------



## gildadan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BaddParrot*
> 
> I bought a Logitech G500 on 9/16/11 for $45.99 (Great Price).
> 
> The last 2 months it has been acting up. It disconnects randomly from my pc & reconnects.
> 
> My warranty still has 4 months left on it (3 years) so I called Logitech today.
> 
> They confirmed it was a hardware issue. I emailed them a Picture of my old receipt & they are mailing me a Brand new G502.
> 
> The kicker is they are letting me keep the old G500. The G500 is still fine for most every day crap But CAN piss me off when I'm gaming & it acts up.
> 
> I have to give Logitech 2 thumbs up for the support on this!


Now thats a way to get a new mouse. Great support logitech and congrats badparrot


----------



## Aventadoor

Logitech should create 2 new mices with below 100g weight, this sensor, and sponsor NiP and some other big esports team.
I think they could get the leading gaming peripherals company.
Or maybe they could buy Zowie and put the sensor in those!


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BaddParrot*
> 
> I bought a Logitech G500 on 9/16/11 for $45.99 (Great Price).
> 
> The last 2 months it has been acting up. It disconnects randomly from my pc & reconnects.
> 
> My warranty still has 4 months left on it (3 years) so I called Logitech today.
> 
> They confirmed it was a hardware issue. I emailed them a Picture of my old receipt & they are mailing me a Brand new G502.
> 
> The kicker is they are letting me keep the old G500. The G500 is still fine for most every day crap But CAN piss me off when I'm gaming & it acts up.
> 
> I have to give Logitech 2 thumbs up for the support on this!


Logitech customer service is second to none.

My only issue ever with a Logitech product(I got one of the first batch 710+ KB's that had a row of backlights go out) resulted in them instantly emailing an RMA number and cross shipping me a replacement within 24 hours.


----------



## semantics

In the US logitechs customer service is top notch. Not sure about other places, but i've never been treated so well by customer service as I have with logitech. I've dealt with their customer service 3 times over the years. Each time I've gotten a response in a day and the response was helpful, hell they've even paid for shipping for me.

Those experiences are rare in customer service, i've been stonewalled and ignored quite a bit dealing with other companies.


----------



## Ice009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> In the US logitechs customer service is top notch. Not sure about other places, but i've never been so well treated by customer service as my experiences with logitech. I've dealt with their customer service 3 times over the year each time i've gotten responses in a day and the response was helpful, hell they've even paid for shipping for me.
> 
> Those experiences are rare in customer service, i've been stonewalled and ignored quite a bit dealing with other companies.


I hope I like the G502 as I chose it over the Mionix NAOS, partly because of their warranty service and length of warranty.


----------



## Falkentyne

Ok guys,
One of you guys, many pages back, said that you use PTFE (Teflon) tape to put over the mouse pads on your mice, over the existing feet, to help the glide.
.
But how do you get Teflon tape to STICK to existing mouse pads, since it isn't self adhesive? And furthermore, how do you even cut it into shape, without deforming it?

Serious question here, folks. I just tossed $5 on a few reels...


----------



## JustinSane

Question for you guys that said the G502 was too heavy but have been using it for a while: Did you get used to the weight or is it something that still bothers you?


----------



## VagueRant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Ok guys,
> One of you guys, many pages back, said that you use PTFE (Teflon) tape to put over the mouse pads on your mice, over the existing feet, to help the glide.
> .
> But how do you get Teflon tape to STICK to existing mouse pads, since it isn't self adhesive? And furthermore, how do you even cut it into shape, without deforming it?
> 
> Serious question here, folks. I just tossed $5 on a few reels...


You may have gotten the film style which is used to seal pipe against leaking. It appears to come in different thickness online.

If you didnt purchase the film style which will stretch when you pull it. The X-trac Eels I purchased are about twice the thickness of scotch tape and the instructions state to clean the mouse feet with alcohol then let dry before applying the tape. I never used them after purchasing but I doubt they are worth it.

I would guess its probably a better bet to buy the replacements off of Logitech's site. I would think that the lack of rolled edges on the tape might create trouble catching, unlike what the formed feet have. One of the center feet on my mouse has a turned up edge now, probably because those do not have much of a rounded edge. Had to stop using the Goliathus Control and start using the hard surface I have because it was pricking on the surface.

edit: after rereading your post I noticed you wrote it was not self adhesive which is what the film style is like.


----------



## StrayKAT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustinSane*
> 
> Question for you guys that said the G502 was too heavy but have been using it for a while: Did you get used to the weight or is it something that still bothers you?


Please, somebody answer this!

I can't still decide between the M-Avior 7000 and the L-G502 yet, I'm waiting for more commentaries in the polemic aspects of the L-G502 to make the choice.


----------



## Ino.

Right now I'm switching between the NAOS and the G502, mainly to evaluate what I like about each of them and what I do not like.

The weight is only really apparent to me when switching to a lighter mouse again. But you really need to try for yourself, there are multiple things about the G502 that you can either love or hate (wheel, shape, weight...). So go it a shop with easy returns and just try it. IMO it's worth it for the sensor alone.


----------



## mattavich

I've gotten used to the weight. Its more about finding a good grip. It takes time but now im really happy with my purchase.

I am a firm believer that no mouse is perfect and you should strike a balance by giving the mouse time so you can adjust to it. At the end of the day what matters most for me is aiming and im finding this mouse great now.


----------



## StrayKAT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Right now I'm switching between the NAOS and the G502, mainly to evaluate what I like about each of them and what I do not like.
> 
> The weight is only really apparent to me when switching to a lighter mouse again. But you really need to try for yourself, there are multiple things about the G502 that you can either love or hate (wheel, shape, weight...). So go it a shop with easy returns and just try it. IMO it's worth it for the sensor alone.


I will try, thanks and yeah g502's sensor is my main interest in the mouse.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mattavich*
> 
> I've gotten used to the weight. Its more about finding a good grip. It takes time but now im really happy with my purchase.
> 
> I am a firm believer that no mouse is perfect and you should strike a balance by giving the mouse time so you can adjust to it. At the end of the day what matters most for me is aiming and im finding this mouse great now.


Yes, i thing you are right and I am prepared to use this mouse even if it means grip it with a strange claw grip.


----------



## Theobeo

Am I the only one experiencing tracking issues? Does anyone know what the lift off distance is?

I have added 0.5 mm teflon onto the huge 50% teflon surface contact that otherwise follows as standard, but at random areas of my mousepad the mouse completely stops functioning for a brief 0.5 second.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Theobeo*
> 
> Am I the only one experiencing tracking issues? Does anyone know what the lift off distance is?
> 
> I have added 0.5 mm teflon onto the huge 50% teflon surface contact that otherwise follows as standard, but at random areas of my mousepad the mouse completely stops functioning for a brief 0.5 second.


have you tuned for your mouspad?


----------



## Theobeo

@Atavax

Yes, I don´t really see any difference in tracking.

Personally I think "factory default" is better than tuning, but since the tuning has zero effect on LOD, Im forced to say on a troubled path.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Theobeo*
> 
> @Atavax
> 
> Yes, I don´t really see any difference in tracking.
> 
> Personally I think "factory default" is better than tuning, but since the tuning has zero effect on LOD, Im forced to say on a troubled path.


What mousepad do you use? Are the spots where tracking stops always the same?


----------



## Ricey20

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Theobeo*
> 
> Am I the only one experiencing tracking issues? Does anyone know what the lift off distance is?
> 
> I have added 0.5 mm teflon onto the huge 50% teflon surface contact that otherwise follows as standard, but at random areas of my mousepad the mouse completely stops functioning for a brief 0.5 second.


I believe someone tested it and it stopped tracking at cd thickness, or 1.2mm, so less than that.


----------



## Falkentyne

Isn't that the same as the Microsoft intellimouse 1.1A and explorer 3.0? 1.2mm liftoff distance on all surfaces?
People wanted liftoff distance that low because that's the liftoff distance of the original ball mice.


----------



## Chuck89

My G502 started to have problems with the left mouse button again. Randomly a left click becomes a double click - mostly when pressing down the button for a few milliseconds longer than usual.

On top of that the scroll wheel skips 1 out of 50 "single scroll steps" - so not very often, but it happens from time to time.

These are the same flaws i experienced with my first G502 nearly 2 weeks ago.

What are the chances of that? Struck with bad luck? I mean, really?.. I used 2 different G502 and after a few days use i could find the exact same flaws.


----------



## CeeSA

That is "very high build quality" some people insist.


----------



## duhizy

Also here trying to decide between lg502 and avior 7000, do u guys think the difference between the two is so large that it would warrant having to ship the avior to me to try it? I believe they're the same price; however, the g502 is just easier for me to get my hands on. Can anyone speak too the difference in click sensitivity or click distance? My only distaste with the g502 is it's weight, but i'm sure that it'll feel as easy to use as what I'm used too in a week or so.


----------



## majnu

Code is of no use to me or my UK buddies so hopefully someone from the states can benefit instead:
Quote:


> *Limit of 2 items per household. Offer valid for purchase and shipment in the US only when purchased on 05/13/2014. Discount may be redeemed using the unique coupon code provided in this email. Discount will be applied when you enter the coupon code during the shopping cart process. Code may only be redeemed once. Shipping and sales tax excluded. Dealers, distributors and other resellers are not eligible for this offer. Excludes Harmony Smart Keyboard, Harmony Ultimate One, Illuminated Living-Room Keyboard K830, G502 Proteus Core Tunable Gaming Mouse, iPad Air and Samsung Galaxy NotePRO tablet accessories, Alert Products, UE 900, UE Boom, UE Mini Boom, case [+] the story and Bemo. Additional terms, conditions, products, pricing and offers subject to change without notice.
> 
> Free shipping on orders over $49.
> 
> © Copyright 2014 Logitech. All rights reserved. Logitech, the Logitech logo and other Logitech marks are owned by Logitech and may be registered.
> 
> Logitech Americas Headquarters
> 7600 Gateway Blvd.
> Newark, CA 94560 USA
> 
> en_US


NOTE: 1 DAY ONLY CODE. ONE TIME ONLY USE

30% OFF.
Enter this unique coupon code:
*t8229722d*
during checkout.

edit - just read the blurb and the g502 is excluded. Bollox


----------



## ejohnson

So im having some issues getting the LGS software to install on my laptop.
Fresh copy of windows, everytime I install it says the "logitech installer failed, please restart and try again"

I have restarted, I have run as admin, I have run in safe mode, I have created another user account and installed... Nothing seems to allow me to install it.

Not a huge issue as I have it on my desktop to setup the mouse, but I would like to be able to have it on my laptop too.
Any ideas? Google was less than helpfull as all the threads about the problem just kinda die off without a solution.

Laptop
i7 4700
gtx780m
16gb
3tb hdds
256gb msata


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CeeSA*
> 
> That is "very high build quality" some people insist.


Please stop the flaming.
Logitech DOES NOT make the microswitches. So that's a red herring fallicy.
We all know you don't like the mouse. So can you enjoy YOUR mouse and stop trolling this thread?


----------



## 2shellbonus

G502 uses an optical wheel encoder. So that is about as solid as it gets. Nothing really to go wrong there )

Switches are omron. Basically what everyone else uses.


----------



## DivineDark

Still working like a champ for me. I still hop between this and my FK/Avior. The tracking feels a little different between all three, but no issues with them. I'm pretty happy with my current selection.


----------



## duhizy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Still working like a champ for me. I still hop between this and my FK/Avior. The tracking feels a little different between all three, but no issues with them. I'm pretty happy with my current selection.


would u say that you've gotten used to the weight on the g502?Iv tried most other then the avior but i recently bought the g502, can u speak about the difference in click sensitivity/distance between g502 and avior?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhizy*
> 
> would u say that you've gotten used to the weight on the g502?Iv tried most other then the avior but i recently bought the g502, can u speak about the difference in click sensitivity/distance between g502 and avior?


Actually, I never had an issue with the weight. It was very comfortable for me from the start. I don't play a lot of twitch type games, so I rarely have to do snap-shots. It seems to have a very low center of gravity, just like the Avior, so it's easy for me to throw around.

The clicks of the mouse are almost identical to the Avior. Their switches feel about the same. I'd say the G502 has a more definite and lighter click than the Avior, but that's in large part due to the fact that the buttons are separated from the shell. They may also have a bit longer throw than the Avior, but it's very slight. The side and special buttons have a better feel on the Avior. The side buttons on the G502 are oddly shaped, have very little travel, and do not have an overt click. The Avior just has a more substantial click on the side buttons.


----------



## metal571

The G502 is very gimmicky...the Avior is a no-bs mouse that doesn't mess around. I mean they're both good but if you ask me lightness + sensor + comfort > all


----------



## 2shellbonus

About the weight.

I used a G400 for the last two years or so.

I've already gotten used to the weight.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The G502 is very gimmicky...the Avior is a no-bs mouse that doesn't mess around. I mean they're both good but if you ask me lightness + sensor + comfort > all


my mouse could beat up your mouse!


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> About the weight.
> 
> I used a G400 for the last two years or so.
> 
> I've already gotten used to the weight.


The thing is, why get used to the weight if you don't have to?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> my mouse could beat up your mouse!


From an unbiased point of view it's nearly impossible to tell people "get this instead of this! This is definitely better!" There are quite a few good choices out there right now, I just express my opinions here, not facts. Just opinions and that's important to keep in mind. Thousands of people will buy the G502. Thankfully putting 12000 CPI on the packaging doesn't mean it's trash this time around.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Well you get used to any weight. I used everything between a g700 and Razer salmosa. And each mouse you have to get used to the weight and shape.I mean just use the mouse for a month or two and the mouse you used previously will seem alien to you.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> From an unbiased point of view it's nearly impossible to tell people "get this instead of this! This is definitely better!" There are quite a few good choices out there right now, I just express my opinions here, not facts. Just opinions and that's important to keep in mind. Thousands of people will buy the G502. Thankfully putting 12000 CPI on the packaging doesn't mean it's trash this time around.


agreed, although i would prefer if you prefer to refer to the downsides as heavy, with a heavy and slick scroll wheel, and more buttons then you probably need. Instead of calling it gimmicky. Gimmicky is an vague insult. One person's gimmick is another person's necessity.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Well you get used to any weight. I used everything between a g700 and Razer salmosa. And each mouse you have to get used to the weight and shape.I mean just use the mouse for a month or two and the mouse you used previously will seem alien to you.


This is absolutely correct. Luckily for me I don't like letting myself get comfortable with a mouse, so I actually improve my gameplay. I like to reach the point of getting better, then throw myself a curve ball and completely change the size, shape, and architecture of my mice... Keeps my brain and hands on their toes. SCREW IMPROVEMENT!


----------



## Aventadoor

Yeah, it shocks the body so your skill will grow.
Just like with the muscle!









Jk


----------



## CeeSA

@Falkentyne
Quote:


> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Please stop the flaming.
> Logitech DOES NOT make the microswitches. So that's a red herring fallicy.
> We all know you don't like the mouse. So can you enjoy YOUR mouse and stop trolling this thread?


This was maybe my first flame post about the G502. My other posts are more factually oriented. And I could not say this for the most of the pro G502 people.

And why are you going only to the switches? I didn't do that. What's about "skipping single scroll steps". More important I think.
Btw I always think (and post it earlier) that omrons are a low quality and low price product.
It's hard to find 2 out of 10 that feel exactly the same way.


----------



## cloudpierre

i just got this mouse as a replacement for my 4th defective g400s in a row. (yes really that many)

and i must say i'm quite impressed for the most part. after i had 4 g400s in a row that had scroll wheel and dpi button issues this g502 seems very well made out of the box.. and the sensor is fantastic. also i find it incredibly comfortable for me to palm with my tiny hands.. though the xornet/spawn still wins in that department. too bad i also had 2 defective xornets in a row as well. talk about bad luck with mice. looks like i finally have a keeper! 7th time is a charm.

also of note

- the scroll wheel isn't ideal but i find the complaints to be exaggerated.. it's adequate. and seeing as my 4 g400s would auto scroll in the opposite direction by itself i find the g502 scroll to be a huge improvement.

-the mouse does not seem too heavy at all to me.. the narrow design actually makes it seem lighter and less bulky than the g400s .. i might even experiment with adding a couple weights

-even with how good i think it is it would have been quite hard to justify spending 80 of my own dollars on it...though it's definitely worth it, 80 bucks for a mouse is quite steep when you have other great options for less, and some of the features while cool are somewhat unnecessary. still for the money you get "more" than the deathadder or mionix mice which are comparable in price but bare bones.

comfort- 9
build quality(so far)- 9
tech specs/sensor- 10
features- 8
price/value- 7


----------



## Falkentyne

Yeah, those other mice scrolled 'backwards (like my deathadder) because they use microswitches (I could be 100% wrong too. what does the deathadder use for sensing of the mouse wheel?)

The Logitech uses an optical which also senses movement. The benefit of that is it works great with the freescrolling and will never wear out and start going backwards. the drawback is, it can miss clicks if you alternate and go from a slow speed to a fast speed (which changes the 'center' of where it will activate a scroll).


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Yeah, those other mice scrolled 'backwards (like my deathadder) because they use microswitches (I could be 100% wrong too. what does the deathadder use for sensing of the mouse wheel?)
> 
> The Logitech uses an optical which also senses movement. The benefit of that is it works great with the freescrolling and will never wear out and start going backwards. the drawback is, it can miss clicks if you alternate and go from a slow speed to a fast speed (which changes the 'center' of where it will activate a scroll).


This is exactly correct. I believe this is also the same reason Zowie mice have some missed movements from time to time. They aren't tied to a mechanical encoder, so the indentions don't always register as one16th/24th of a revolution.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The thing is, why get used to the weight if you don't have to?


Not a very big difference between Avior and G400 tho, like 4-5 grams. Best weight+shape+size yet is Sensei RAW imo, would not hurt to be some grams lower still.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Not a very big difference between Avior and G400 tho, like 4-5 grams. Best weight+shape+size yet is Sensei RAW imo, would not hurt to be some grams lower still.


Yeah, the Avior 7000 is the closest to ideal I've found since it combines the Sensei-like shape with a much better sensor.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Yeah, the Avior 7000 is the closest to ideal I've found since it combines the Sensei-like shape with a much better sensor.


I could have liked it if it didn't got so thin on the top. I have such a hard time lifting it, the coating does the opposite of helping as well.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> I could have liked it if it didn't got so thin on the top. I have such a hard time lifting it, the coating does the opposite of helping as well.


Thin on top?

I guess my hands sweat just a bit and the grip works great for me. Sometimes I forget what mouse I'm using because it's so damn transparent to human input.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Thin on top?
> 
> I guess my hands sweat just a bit and the grip works great for me. Sometimes I forget what mouse I'm using because it's so damn transparent to human input.


Like just behind the side buttons the shape is more /__\ than Sensei \__/. What I'm trying to say is that's how the side shape looks from behind.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Like just behind the side buttons the shape is more /__\ than Sensei \__/. What I'm trying to say is that's how the side shape looks from behind.


But the front is more \/ than the Sensei. Your fingers are way farther back than mine then, because lifting is extremely easy. Why are you trying to lift the mouse from the back? lol


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> But the front is more \/ than the Sensei. Your fingers are way farther back than mine then, because lifting is extremely easy. Why are you trying to lift the mouse from the back? lol


I use more palm/claw grip. I lift my mice pretty much right in the middle. More with my hands rather than fingers, which I have pretty far upfront. Lifting mice in the front feels so heavy and unbalanced.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> I use more palm/claw grip. I lift my mice pretty much right in the middle. More with my hands rather than fingers, which I have pretty far upfront. Lifting mice in the front feels so heavy and unbalanced.


Interesting that's probably why it works great for me because I'm mostly a fingertip, and I lift it right near the middle but my palm does nothing.


----------



## mattavich

I've bought the G440 mousepad and the g502 glides like silk over it, the weight isnt a issue now at all.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mattavich*
> 
> I've bought the G440 mousepad and the g502 glides like silk over it, the weight isnt a issue now at all.


Speaking of hard mousepad

How does the G440 compare to MM400? Is it worth purchasing noting that I already own a MM400?

I also heard durability issues with the MM400 wearing out with people only own them for a month or so, is this also an issue with the G440?


----------



## luckyduck

My g500 is suffering badly from misclicks and I want to replace it with this mouse though where the g4 and g5 buttons are on this I really really really wish there was a 3rd smaller button slightly below them like on the g500. I always set that to f5 for browser refresh. Going into bestbuy to test drive it tomorrow. Any thoughts on this? Also like with the 500 can I push left or right as a button click on the mouse? I use that for volume control and it is a MUST HAVE.


----------



## mattavich

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Speaking of hard mousepad
> 
> How does the G440 compare to MM400? Is it worth purchasing noting that I already own a MM400?
> 
> I also heard durability issues with the MM400 wearing out with people only own them for a month or so, is this also an issue with the G440?


I had a razer destructor for about 5 years and it made the heavy weight of the mouse a real problem because it wouldnt glide anymore, but the g440 is pretty damn great.

I don't think using a heavy mouse with a cloth pad is a good idea, it should be a hard pad


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mattavich*
> 
> I had a razer destructor for about 5 years and it made the heavy weight of the mouse a real problem because it wouldnt glide anymore, but the g440 is pretty damn great.
> 
> I don't think using a heavy mouse with a cloth pad is a good idea, it should be a hard pad


How does it compare to a MM400 then? Is it similar or overall better?


----------



## luckyduck

Just bought this mouse and I wasnt sure if i would like it or not as the buttons and shape are different than the g500 but so far I am liking it a lot. Not sure if I like the feel overall more but solid mouse for sure.


----------



## prosunza

I have heard from Logitech forum that G502 has some issues. Do you guys have these issues (Tracking problem , mouse feet peel off ) ?

http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-series-Gaming-Mice/G502-tracking-problems/td-p/1248810
http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-series-Gaming-Mice/G502-Mouse-feet-issues/td-p/1239532
http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-series-Gaming-Mice/G502-Proteus-Core-Horizontal-Scroll-Problem/td-p/1248372

I'm looking for a new mouse to replace my old da2013.


----------



## LocutusH

None of them here.


----------



## pr1me

some dude puzzling with a g502 shell, looks like there is a lot of small part O.O


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prosunza*
> 
> I have heard from Logitech forum that G502 has some issues. Do you guys have these issues (Tracking problem , mouse feet peel off ) ?
> 
> http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-series-Gaming-Mice/G502-tracking-problems/td-p/1248810
> http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-series-Gaming-Mice/G502-Mouse-feet-issues/td-p/1239532
> http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-series-Gaming-Mice/G502-Proteus-Core-Horizontal-Scroll-Problem/td-p/1248372
> 
> I'm looking for a new mouse to replace my old da2013.


I had it malfunction a couple times like the first thread talks about. It was really rare (like 2-3 times over a 3 week period) so I figured it was just dust or something since my pad gets quite a bit of dust stuck to it. Maybe there's something more to it.


----------



## hisXLNC

so how did the sensor turn out on this? any acceleration issues? etc..

or do we have a winner?


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hisXLNC*
> 
> so how did the sensor turn out on this? any acceleration issues? etc..
> 
> or do we have a winner?


way to not read the thread bro


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hisXLNC*
> 
> so how did the sensor turn out on this? any acceleration issues? etc..
> 
> or do we have a winner?


its a winner, amazing sensor. no clear faults with it.


----------



## hisXLNC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> way to not read the thread bro


the thread is now 110 pages long and most of it is complaining about the skates


----------



## trUte

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prosunza*
> 
> I have heard from Logitech forum that G502 has some issues. Do you guys have these issues (Tracking problem , mouse feet peel off ) ?
> 
> http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-series-Gaming-Mice/G502-tracking-problems/td-p/1248810
> http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-series-Gaming-Mice/G502-Mouse-feet-issues/td-p/1239532
> http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-series-Gaming-Mice/G502-Proteus-Core-Horizontal-Scroll-Problem/td-p/1248372
> 
> I'm looking for a new mouse to replace my old da2013.


I posted about the sensor issue I was having on a few threads in the Logitech forums. The tracking on the g502 was amazing until it randomly spun out on me in-game every hour or so. I actually had the exact same problem with the DA 2013 when it was first released but Razer eventually fixed it with a firmware update. I hope Logitech is working on a fix because the mouse was unusable for me in a competitive gaming environment.


----------



## dontspamme

I've read through most of the thread. But I have not found the answer to one question:
_
- What's the lift-off-distance like on this mouse?_

Can you compare it to some other mice?
Can it be adjusted to be INCREASED through the software/firmware?

Yes, I am one of the (silent) majority that prefers HIGH lift-off-distance.


----------



## fellcbr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *prosunza*
> 
> I have heard from Logitech forum that G502 has some issues. Do you guys have these issues (Tracking problem , mouse feet peel off ) ?
> 
> http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-series-Gaming-Mice/G502-tracking-problems/td-p/1248810
> http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-series-Gaming-Mice/G502-Mouse-feet-issues/td-p/1239532
> http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-series-Gaming-Mice/G502-Proteus-Core-Horizontal-Scroll-Problem/td-p/1248372
> 
> I'm looking for a new mouse to replace my old da2013.


"old" DA 2013 ?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hisXLNC*
> 
> the thread is now 110 pages long and most of it is complaining about the skates


I did a review, should answer the sensor issues.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dontspamme*
> 
> I've read through most of the thread. But I have not found the answer to one question:
> _
> - What's the lift-off-distance like on this mouse?_
> 
> Can you compare it to some other mice?
> Can it be adjusted to be INCREASED through the software/firmware?
> 
> Yes, I am one of the (silent) majority that prefers HIGH lift-off-distance.


I think not, you can tune the mouse to your pad, but that will automatically lower the lift off distance to something like 1 - 1.5 mm.
There might be a ghetto way around this by using a different surface to calibrate on that will cause the sensor to have a higher LOD on your used mousepad, but I'm not sure this works.

You can always chose to not calibrate and use the standard profile, but even the the LOD was not really high.


----------



## prosunza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fellcbr1*
> 
> "old" DA 2013 ?










ya almost year and a half with no any issue


----------



## dontspamme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I did a review, should answer the sensor issues.
> I think not, you can tune the mouse to your pad, but that will automatically lower the lift off distance to something like 1 - 1.5 mm.
> There might be a ghetto way around this by using a different surface to calibrate on that will cause the sensor to have a higher LOD on your used mousepad, but I'm not sure this works.
> 
> You can always chose to not calibrate and use the standard profile, but even the the LOD was not really high.


Terrible news









Thanks anyway.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dontspamme*
> 
> Terrible news
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks anyway.


I'm not trying to be combative here, but as far as I can tell, there is literally no downside to a low or moderate LOD. As long as the mouse functions to the best of it's capabilities, there is no reason for a high LOD. I have a problem with a high LOD, because I lift often. This means I have to make an effort while playing to lift my mouse above the 3mm barrier that I find annoying. This is a problem. It creates an issue that I must overcome in order to play regularly. That doesn't happen with preferring a high LOD. You don't have to force yourself to not lift as high. You can lift as high as you want and get the same reaction.

Maybe I'm just not thinking about every angle as I like a low LOD...


----------



## Axaion

I dunno man, low LoD to a point seems the only logical way.. you dont want your pen to keep writing on paper untill you move it 10+ CM away from the paper, i know i wouldent want that

Also makes me wonder how they survived using ball mice as well, considering their LoD was physically from when the ball stopped touching the surface.


----------



## blackmesatech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> I dunno man, low LoD to a point seems the only logical way.. you dont want your pen to keep writing on paper untill you move it 10+ CM away from the paper, i know i wouldent want that
> 
> Also makes me wonder how they survived using ball mice as well, considering their LoD was physically from when the ball stopped touching the surface.


Some are just more accustomed to a slightly higher LOD and in some cases required it with the way they move/swing the mouse. I do believe for some there is a such a thing as too high and too low of a LOD but I'd prefer if this sensor would at least allow for a 2mm LOD as the max LOD currently is too low.

Ball mice didn't necessarily stop tracking after the ball was no longer touching the surface they stopped tracking when the ball stopped moving. Also they had a lot of room to play between lifting the mouse off the pad and the ball bottoming out on the plate that holds it in place.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackmesatech*
> 
> Some are just more accustomed to a slightly higher LOD and in some cases required it with the way they move/swing the mouse. I do believe for some there is a such a thing as too high and too low of a LOD but I'd prefer if this sensor would at least allow for a 2mm LOD as the max LOD currently is too low.
> 
> Ball mice didn't necessarily stop tracking after the ball was no longer touching the surface they stopped tracking when the ball stopped moving. Also they had a lot of room to play between lifting the mouse off the pad and the ball bottoming out on the plate that holds it in place.


If by a lot of room you mean less than 3mm, then yeah.

Of course the LoD needs to be high enough that the mouse still tracks by a small bump or slight tilt, so it doesent feel like the sensor randomly dies.

Id say the Intellimice nailed it in the LoD Department.


----------



## metal571

IMO Zowie LOD is just about perfect. Maybe just slightly lower than that, like a 9500 on a very low setting, that was perfect for me.


----------



## TK421

$67 for a G502? Good idea to pick it up?


----------



## metal571

oops sorry delete


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> $67 for a G502? Good idea to pick it up?


I definitely would, but then again, I bought mine for $80 and am happy with that.


----------



## Malvolg

I just wanted to give a quick PSA to those of you thinking of purchasing replacement feet for your g502:

Don't. Or at least be wary before you do.

The picture of the replacement feet on the Logitech store page (here) is 100% representative of what you get, meaning you don't even get a full set of feet.

The set does indeed only come with one of the V shapes that go around the sensor and you'll have to purchase another weight door if you want it to have new feet (or a new foot, if you prefer), too.

I suppose it was naive of me to assume that the set actually included a full set and to assume the picture was merely representative; I'll own up to that.

But the question remains: where the hell is the logic in selling incomplete sets of replacement mouse feet? Like, *** Logitech? That's an incredibly stupid oversight.

I'll be contacting customer support about the four sets I bought (saves a ton on shipping - $6.51 for four sets as opposed to $6.15 for one) and respond here with any replies I get.


----------



## blackmesatech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> If by a lot of room you mean less than 3mm, then yeah.
> 
> Of course the LoD needs to be high enough that the mouse still tracks by a small bump or slight tilt, so it doesent feel like the sensor randomly dies.
> 
> Id say the Intellimice nailed it in the LoD Department.


Compared to most mice these days yes 3mm is a lot of room. Recently it has been either through the roof with no option to adjust or nothing above 1.5mm and even then the 1.5mm is often times dependent on the surface so the max is generally lower.

I did prefer the LOD of MS 1.1, 3.0 mice but the ones I used were 2mm.


----------



## Ice009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Malvolg*
> 
> I just wanted to give a quick PSA to those of you thinking of purchasing replacement feet for your g502:
> 
> Don't. Or at least be wary before you do.
> 
> The picture of the replacement feet on the Logitech store page (here) is 100% representative of what you get, meaning you don't even get a full set of feet.
> 
> The set does indeed only come with one of the V shapes that go around the sensor and you'll have to purchase another weight door if you want it to have new feet (or a new foot, if you prefer), too.
> 
> I suppose it was naive of me to assume that the set actually included a full set and to assume the picture was merely representative; I'll own up to that.
> 
> But the question remains: where the hell is the logic in selling incomplete sets of replacement mouse feet? Like, *** Logitech? That's an incredibly stupid oversight.
> 
> I'll be contacting customer support about the four sets I bought (saves a ton on shipping - $6.51 for four sets as opposed to $6.15 for one) and respond here with any replies I get.


I just got the mouse, but I also got a brand new PureTrak Talent to go along with it. Hopefully I don't get any mouse feet issues. Does the mouse foot need replacing on the weight door? Maybe that one is more durable, hence why they didn't include a new one (still should be included, no excuse from Logitech not to include one, really stupid stuff), otherwise that is unacceptable for them not to include all the mouse feet in a new set.


----------



## eXteR

Bought mine on tuesday, arrives today.

Using job account on Amazon.es comes without VAT, 66€.

It's about the same as my current MX518 on 2006.

Hope this is a good replacement for the best mice i've ever had.

Any advices of configuration or things to ckeck for faulty parts?

I pretend to play mainly FPS games, currently Battlefield 4.

Dpi is a giant step, actually MX518 v1 tops on 1600dpi.

I'm actually using 400dpi on tank, vci and truck turrets, 800-1000 dpi on foot, and 1600dpi on main tanks, AA, Jets and Helicopters.

Enviado desde mi Nexus 4 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## exyia

so has any normal user opened up the mouse themself? from the internal pictures out there, the LED's seem somewhat easy to change out if you can get the mouse open

but I managed to hold one from a broken box at bestbuy and the mouse did not look easy to take apart at all. the joining seams were very tight (good build quality) and I didn't see any screws


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exyia*
> 
> so has any normal user opened up the mouse themself? from the internal pictures out there, the LED's seem somewhat easy to change out if you can get the mouse open
> 
> but I managed to hold one from a broken box at bestbuy and the mouse did not look easy to take apart at all. the joining seams were very tight (good build quality) and I didn't see any screws


It looks like it's put together with snap clips and screws.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exyia*
> 
> so has any normal user opened up the mouse themself? from the internal pictures out there, the LED's seem somewhat easy to change out if you can get the mouse open
> 
> but I managed to hold one from a broken box at bestbuy and the mouse did not look easy to take apart at all. the joining seams were very tight (good build quality) and I didn't see any screws


I have, four screws under the mouse feet. And in the front it has snap ins, but you can push in gently with a screwdriver and the top shell comes right off.


----------



## KBOMB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> It looks like it's put together with snap clips and screws.


Do you see a battery in there?? Mine came with a little battery (like for a watch) but I have no idea where the heck it goes?! I can't find anything about it... so weird. Am I completely missing something?


----------



## Ino.

You probably mean the magnet?


----------



## KBOMB

Is it a replacement magnet?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KBOMB*
> 
> Is it a replacement magnet?


No, there is one in the box that is only there to keep the lid of the box shut.
And there is one in the mouse that keeps the weight door in place.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> No, there is one in the box that is only there to keep the lid of the box shut.
> And there is one in the mouse that keeps the weight door in place.


This.


----------



## KBOMB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> This.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> No, there is one in the box that is only there to keep the lid of the box shut.
> And there is one in the mouse that keeps the weight door in place.


Ohhhh now I see. haha my baddd


----------



## Falkentyne

Pretty genius design, as magnets will never wear out. Unless, of course, the earth's magnetic field reverses or you try to use the mouse in outer space or on a Mars colony or something...I guess Logitech didn't think of THAT one!


----------



## TK421

I'm a palm user and my thumb don't even reach the sniper button

derp


----------



## discoprince

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> I'm a palm user and my thumb don't even reach the sniper button
> 
> derp


you must have tiny hands.
my hands are 17.5cm from the base of my palm to the tip of my middle finger and my thumb lovingly







rests on the sniper button in palm grip. Luckily palm is not how i naturally hold the mouse.


----------



## TK421

My hand

10cm from middle finger joint to palm joint
7cm from thumb tip to thumb joint

Is this dimension small?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Yes, the 10+ years Dark Ages of mouse sensors seems to be over.


So statements like this got me pretty intrigued to try this mouse.

Unfortunately, I don't feel like it lives up to the hype. It's an improvement off the 3090, 3310, etc.. But it doesn't match the MLT04 yet in my opinion.





.

My conclusion/summary:
Returning the mouse.
Too heavy, poor button placement, too narrow in the back, scroll wheel too far back, middle button hard to click causing accidental scrolls, and ultimately the sensor still doesn't match the MLT04.
Pros:
Good build quality, good grip, shape is decent, sensor is decent (I'd rank it 2nd to the MLT04), features are nice, cable is flexible enough that it doesn't hinder mouse movement and stiff enough that it's not flopping around.


----------



## Munashiimaru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *discoprince*
> 
> you must have tiny hands.
> my hands are 17.5cm from the base of my palm to the tip of my middle finger and my thumb lovingly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rests on the sniper button in palm grip. Luckily palm is not how i naturally hold the mouse.


I have pretty small hands (probably about average for a female really), and I need to shift my grip slightly to have my thumb rest on the sniper button. Still a natural feeling grip to me, but not the way I grab it when I'm just reaching out to hold a mouse. It's actually how I like it though very reminiscent of my old sidewinders buttons, which is why I bought the 502 after feeling it at a best buy.


----------



## LocutusH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> So statements like this got me pretty intrigued to try this mouse.
> 
> Unfortunately, I don't feel like it lives up to the hype. It's an improvement off the 3090, 3310, etc.. But it doesn't match the MLT04 yet in my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> My conclusion/summary:
> Returning the mouse.
> Too heavy, poor button placement, too narrow in the back, scroll wheel too far back, middle button hard to click causing accidental scrolls, and ultimately the sensor still doesn't match the MLT04.
> Pros:
> Good build quality, good grip, shape is decent, sensor is decent (I'd rank it 2nd to the MLT04), features are nice, cable is flexible enough that it doesn't hinder mouse movement and stiff enough that it's not flopping around.


In what way does it not match the MLT04? Whats wrong with it?

I simply cant imagine any scenario, where i would be better off with a 400dpi max sensor in 2014...


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> I simply cant imagine any scenario, where i would be better off with a 400dpi max sensor in 2014...


Your comment seems to imply that you think higher DPI = better accuracy. This is marketing misinformation. Higher DPI = higher sensitivity, usually at the cost of sensor accuracy.

Sources:






http://mousespeed.net/sc2-mouse-optimization

http://www.overclock.net/t/1251156/an-overview-of-mouse-technology/0_50

http://www.overclock.net/t/951894/the-truthful-mouse-guide/0_50

http://www.overclock.net/t/1201593/mouse-testing-software

http://www.funender.com/quake/mouse/index.html

Quote:


> In what way does it not match the MLT04? Whats wrong with it?


Sensor accuracy. These high DPI mice have yet to match the accuracy of the MLT04 sensor.

No one needs these insane (anything over 1000 is really only useful for multiple monitors) DPI counts. It's a marketing gimmick that has been degrading sensor fidelity.


----------



## Krucid

I got a brand new G502 for sale. Retails for 79.99, figure i can let it go for 49.99. In the box with everything included. PM if interested.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Your comment seems to imply that you think higher DPI = better accuracy. This is marketing misinformation. Higher DPI = higher sensitivity, usually at the cost of sensor accuracy.
> 
> Sources:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://mousespeed.net/sc2-mouse-optimization
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1251156/an-overview-of-mouse-technology/0_50
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/951894/the-truthful-mouse-guide/0_50
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1201593/mouse-testing-software
> 
> http://www.funender.com/quake/mouse/index.html
> Sensor accuracy. These high DPI mice have yet to match the accuracy of the MLT04 sensor based mice?
> 
> No one needs these insane (anything over 1000 is really only useful for multiple monitors) DPI counts. It's a marketing gimmick that has been degrading sensor fidelity.


Some could argue versus tracking of greater than 1.5 m/s when comparing the G502 versus the older mice of those having the MLT04 sensor.

Have you adapted to the negative "acceleration" of the MLT04 sensor?


----------



## Falkentyne

I made a post in the other thread (someone called me a troll; even if my terms are wrong, the testing and explanation behind it is logical, as I have BOTH a Deathadder Black and Logitech G502 hooked up RIGHT in front of me. And I have absolutely NO way to prove any of this even by a youtube video.

So let me come and say this directly.

Deathadder Black Edition (S3688 sensor I think, or we can just use the DA 3G): 1800 DPI
Logitech G502: 1800 dpi.

I said that the Logitech has a bigger 'deadzone' than the DA, but what I MEAN to say is that:

The G502 at the SAME DPI as the deathadder, requires MORE motion to begin the movement of the sensor, than the deathadder.
At 1800 DPI, the deathadder feels flawless as far as perfect accuracy.

The G502, while having no accel, jitter (no jitter up to 3500 dpi) and much lower Liftoff distance, requires MORE motion before the pointer starts moving. (I called this a 'dead zone', even if that terminology is wrong). Naturally, the higher the DPI, the less motion required, but deathadder @ 1800 >G502 @ 1800, ONLY for that initial movement. (But again, WHY is this the case?)

I notice this VERY, VERY clearly in a game called 'league of legends", where I pixel hunt (pixel by pixel) to find one EXACT perfect pixel to "glitch" drop a pink vision ward. I have to pixel hunt for this pixel by clicking the pixel icon and aiming for the spot.

I can do this PERFECTLY and quickly with a deathadder.
With the Logitech, it requires more movement, and is more tiring, as the mouse wont 'react' to a very tiny movement.

**THIS EXACT THING IS WHAT THE ABOVE POSTER IS TALKING ABOUT, IN REGARDS TO THE MLT04 BEING MORE ACCURATE THAN THE G502 ! (BUT ONLY at the same exact dpi (400 for each).

If you run the Logitech G502 at close HALF of its maximum DPI (6000), then this "amount of movement required" becomes the exact same as what the deathadder was at 1800 DPI. 3500 DPI is good enough, though, to get most of the deathadder "pixel hunting" feel. Obviously when at 12000 dpi, the sensor responds to the tiniest possible movements, but ofc too much jitter there.

So, why is it that two mice, with vastly different maximum resolutions, when run at the same DPI, the mouse with the lower max native DPI (deathadder, for example), will react sooner to pixel movements, than something like the G502? (and as I said, being a pixel ward planter in league of legends, I am NOT making this up).


----------



## jologskyblues

I don't mean to defend on the G502 but my experience has been much different. I have not noticed this "dead-zone" under normal desktop and gaming conditions. The G502 I'm using right now has easily the most responsive and accurate sensor I've ever used in comparison with all the other gaming mice I've owned like the Naos 8200, G300, G9x, Deathadder 2013, Naos 3200, G5, and the MX310. I'm a medium sensitivity user at 1250 CPI @1000Hz on a 1920x1080 display, BTW.

What I did notice is that the 502 feels slightly slower at the same CPI setting compared to other gaming mice which is why I use tend to set a higher sensitivity CPI with it which brings it back up to speed without any lag at all. Notably, it's the only mouse that tracks perfectly on my Artisan Hayate mouse pad.

While the G502 one of the best mice I've had, feature, quality and software-wise, I still think is has some issues like how the mouse scroll wheel feel is flimsy, laggy and heavy, and the buttons are too light leading to accidental clicks. The shape also forces me to claw/fingertip the mouse when I'm naturally a palm grip. I also think its too unnecessarily heavy even without the weights installed.


----------



## L4dd

Could the older Avago sensor on the DeathAdder BE be exhibiting its newly discovered positive "acceleration" versus the G502's reported superior tracking, which would require more movement than the DeathAdder BE's?
Everyone says that the G502 has no noticeable input delay...


----------



## hajabooja

I decided to go ahead and order one of these to test out. Could someone elaborate more on the "G Shift" function. For example, the "sniper" button, can it be remapped so you can press that + another button to do a different command? Such as the Roccat EasyShift button if anyone is familiar with that.

Thanks


----------



## VagueRant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hajabooja*
> 
> I decided to go ahead and order one of these to test out. Could someone elaborate more on the "G Shift" function. For example, the "sniper" button, can it be remapped so you can press that + another button to do a different command? Such as the Roccat EasyShift button if anyone is familiar with that.
> 
> Thanks


While holding the G-Shift every other button can have its own set function. The third profile has the sniper button set as G-Shift with a preset handy setup. You can essentially set any of the 11 programmable buttons as the G-Shift button.

Looking at the Roccat page they both work the same other than Roccats EasyShift button is limited to the thumb buttons and Logitech does not allow the scroll forward and back buttons to be assigned as anything else.


----------



## HopeUTKN

That mouse is hideous. All the new G series products are hideous. Hideous, hideous, hideous.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> Some could argue versus tracking of greater than 1.5 m/s when comparing the G502 versus the older mice of those having the MLT04 sensor.


I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you mean that higher perfect control speed is more important for some people, than I agree.
Quote:


> Have you adapted to the negative "acceleration" of the MLT04 sensor?


It's a possibility. However, the same feeling is in all these other mice. It's just less so in the G502.

And the feeling is at all speeds, not just when moved fast. So actually, I would say no; most likely it's not that I've gotten used to negative acceleration.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you mean that higher perfect control speed is more important for some people, than I agree.
> It's a possibility. However, the same feeling is in all these other mice. It's just less so in the G502.
> 
> And the feeling is at all speeds, not just when moved fast. So actually, I would say no; most likely it's not that I've gotten used to negative acceleration.


Ya, I meant the advertised 300 IPS of the G502 versus that of the older said mice.

Are you discussing the latency? I've asked in Hard Forum, too, and no one noticed input delay...


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> Could the older Avago sensor on the DeathAdder BE be exhibiting its newly discovered positive "acceleration" versus the G502's reported superior tracking, which would require more movement than the DeathAdder BE's?
> Everyone says that the G502 has no noticeable input delay...


Hmm.....what?

.............................positive acceleraetion in the black edition(?)
I never noticed any positive accel in my BE, but I never used synapse, just the 1.02 firmware and the legacy driver.
I also did a side by side test in Unreal tournament 2004, with VERY fast flick turns with the G502 and Black edition.
Both mice performed exactly the same, HOWEVER, at the same DPI, the Logitech was MORE sensitive (about 200 dpi worth) than the Black edition---I tested with mouse pad and ruler marker...I needed 1600 dpi on the G502 to equal 1800 dpi on the DA Black edition.

There was no positive acceleration present, though. Both the G502 and the Black edition returned to the same location (per mice, see below) after different speed swipes. There WAS minor negative acceleration present on BOTH mice in this engine, but I think this is a UT2004 on windows 7 thing (Never saw this on XP). Doing the same test on TF2 (team fortress 2) resulted in flawless repositioning, while doing this test in UT2004 showed some minor negative accel on both mice.

However, I have a beaten up old deathadder 3G sitting around....let me go test the "deadzone" thing....

----

Ok.........WHAT...THE....HELL?

Just finished testing a 3G deathadder and the 3.5G black edition (driver settings were 1800 dpi, although don't remember if 500hz or 1000hz was saved; drivers are not installed).

3.5G black edition is MUCH more sensitive to very tiny movements than the 3G deathadder.
The 3G deathadder felt more like the G502
The 3.5G deathadder, didn't...it felt much more snappy, and "accurate" (fast) when trying to pixel hunt individual pixel aiming with tiny movements.

There is something bizarre about the 3G, though.
I noticed, when I first plugged it in, with it resting on the mouse pad already, it exhibited that old "Diamond back pixel skip" bug (except it would skip a pixel in every direction instead of just to the left). When I lifted the mouse and replanted it, it was gone (oh god, now I remember how sometimes the 3G deathadders would randomly start doing that, so long ago...)

(This bug does NOT exist on the 3.5G black edition; powering on or plugging in the mouse while already planted resulted in perfect tracking without the pixel skip bug from the 3G, needing a lift and replant).

I wonder if something's related there...


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> Are you discussing the latency? I've asked in Hard Forum, too, and no one noticed input delay...


I honestly have no idea what the cause is.

When I tested the 1600DPI version of the mx518 it felt the same way - like you just couldn't find your right sensitivity - which in my opinion is one of the major reasons why most people who use the mx518 use such low sensitivity.
So when I heard that the mx518 had correction I assumed that this was the culprit. But then I tested other no-correction mice and they felt the same. So I really don't know what it is.

I just described in another thread that it feels somewhat like the cursor moves more than it should, to where it feels slippery. I think this is why many people have been referring to the feeling as "smoothing". It doesn't quite feel pixel precise, but rather than it glosses over pixels.

Also, the razor copperhead didn't have this feeling even though it had 2000dpi (more than the mx518). So high DPI is probably not the only factor.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Also, the razor copperhead didn't have this feeling even though it had 2000dpi (more than the mx518). So high DPI is probably not the only factor.


From what I remember when my Copperhead worked, it was very responsive at all CPI settings and 1,000Hz, too.

I read from OCN, the Avago 3090 sensor has newly discovered positive "acceleration" like the Pixart 3310, so I assumed that the DeathAdder BE sensor might, too, since they are similar, which might explain why the G502 might require more movement per pixel versus a DeathAdder BE, as previously posted by *Falkentyne* and now you.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> From what I remember when my Copperhead worked, it was very responsive at all CPI settings and 1,000Hz, too.


When I switched to the copperhead from the IE 1.1 it felt like an aimbot.
Quote:


> I read from OCN, the Avago 3090 sensor has newly discovered positive "acceleration" like the Pixart 3310, so I assumed that the DeathAdder BE sensor might, too, since they are similar, which might explain why the G502 might require more movement per pixel versus a DeathAdder BE, as previously posted by *Falkentyne* and now you.


No, I think you misread what I said.

3090, 3310, 3366 all have the same "smoothing"/slippery/glossy feeling. Just a little less so in the 3366.


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> No, I think you misread what I said.
> 
> 3090, 3310, 3366 all have the same "smoothing"/slippery/glossy feeling. Just a little less so in the 3366.


You are confirming "smoothing" on the G502?


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> You are confirming "smoothing" on the G502?


No, all I can confirm is that the motion to start the pointer moving is more on the G502 and on the 1800 (3G) deathadder than it is on the 3.5G Black Edition.

There's no smoothing at all.
The 3.5g literally starts tracking and registering movement almost as soon as the mouse is barely touched.
The quickness to register pointer movement (making super small corrections fast) is similar to the G502 running at 6000 dpi.

It's almost as if that sensor was designed to do that, as on the old 3G deathadder at 1800 dpi, it feels just like the G502 (maybe a VERY tiny bit less movement required to activate tracking).


----------



## LocutusH

Or you just found a wrong mouse pad for the G502, since no one else has these problem...


----------



## Falkentyne

Eh, I never said it was a problem. I was just shooting out a theory why people found the Intellimouse 1.1a/MSIE 3.0 to be more "accurate' at 400 dpi than the G502. I had shouted out a wrong theory earlier, and when I tested my 3G deathadder and compared it with the 3.5G I have and found the 3G needs more movement (about the same as the G502-just a very very tad less, could be within the margin of error) to register movement, than the black Edition, I was finally able to explain what I found.

The old deathadder 3G does almost the same thiig as the G502, while the 3.5G is much more sensitive to very tiny movements.
Mousing Surface doesn't matter at all. It's the sensor. These mice do use different sensors. Maybe the 3688 (?3.5G version) was designed to do that.


----------



## LocutusH

It does matter on what surface you move it... for example the 3310 naos 7000 is skipping pixels on the fine side of my 1030^2 L, and has tracking errors on both sides, while the 9500 laser in the MS-3, or the G502 does not have any tracking problems on it. And when i place them on my QCK, all of them "seems" to be slower at the same movement, because of the friction. This gets even mor worse on the sargas 320, wich has awful friction. Both cloth pads add a feeling like the mouse has input lag, even if it does really not.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Hmm.....what?
> 
> .............................positive acceleraetion in the black edition(?)
> I never noticed any positive accel in my BE, but I never used synapse, just the 1.02 firmware and the legacy driver.
> I also did a side by side test in Unreal tournament 2004, with VERY fast flick turns with the G502 and Black edition.
> Both mice performed exactly the same, HOWEVER, at the same DPI, the Logitech was MORE sensitive (about 200 dpi worth) than the Black edition---I tested with mouse pad and ruler marker...I needed 1600 dpi on the G502 to equal 1800 dpi on the DA Black edition.
> 
> There was no positive acceleration present, though. Both the G502 and the Black edition returned to the same location (per mice, see below) after different speed swipes. There WAS minor negative acceleration present on BOTH mice in this engine, but I think this is a UT2004 on windows 7 thing (Never saw this on XP). Doing the same test on TF2 (team fortress 2) resulted in flawless repositioning, while doing this test in UT2004 showed some minor negative accel on both mice.
> 
> However, I have a beaten up old deathadder 3G sitting around....let me go test the "deadzone" thing....
> 
> ----
> 
> Ok.........WHAT...THE....HELL?
> 
> Just finished testing a 3G deathadder and the 3.5G black edition (driver settings were 1800 dpi, although don't remember if 500hz or 1000hz was saved; drivers are not installed).
> 
> 3.5G black edition is MUCH more sensitive to very tiny movements than the 3G deathadder.
> The 3G deathadder felt more like the G502
> The 3.5G deathadder, didn't...it felt much more snappy, and "accurate" (fast) when trying to pixel hunt individual pixel aiming with tiny movements.
> 
> There is something bizarre about the 3G, though.
> I noticed, when I first plugged it in, with it resting on the mouse pad already, it exhibited that old "Diamond back pixel skip" bug (except it would skip a pixel in every direction instead of just to the left). When I lifted the mouse and replanted it, it was gone (oh god, now I remember how sometimes the 3G deathadders would randomly start doing that, so long ago...)
> 
> (This bug does NOT exist on the 3.5G black edition; powering on or plugging in the mouse while already planted resulted in perfect tracking without the pixel skip bug from the 3G, needing a lift and replant).
> 
> I wonder if something's related there...


The Logitech is faster at 1800 dpi because it actually is 1800 dpi while the DA is actually only ~1650, at least with all mine that was the case.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> It does matter on what surface you move it... for example the 3310 naos 7000 is skipping pixels on the fine side of my 1030^2 L, and has tracking errors on both sides, while the 9500 laser in the MS-3, or the G502 does not have any tracking problems on it. And when i place them on my QCK, all of them "seems" to be slower at the same movement, because of the friction. This gets even mor worse on the sargas 320, wich has awful friction. Both cloth pads add a feeling like the mouse has input lag, even if it does really not.


Naos 7000 has tracking issues on a 1030^2 L (plastic pad, right?)? Does that mean Avior 7000 is affected as well? Do you have other hard pads (plastic, aluminium) to try out more? Seems the 3310 Mionix' aren't so good anymore on non-cloth surfaces, at least at first sight.


----------



## Crizzl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I just described in another thread that it feels somewhat like the cursor moves more than it should, to where it feels slippery. I think this is why many people have been referring to the feeling as "smoothing". It doesn't quite feel pixel precise, but rather than it glosses over pixels.


It's kind of weird because I feel the same thing when trying to use my IME 3.0 again coming from a FK. I think it's a matter of shape/weight/friction.


----------



## LocutusH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Naos 7000 has tracking issues on a 1030^2 L (plastic pad, right?)? Does that mean Avior 7000 is affected as well? Do you have other hard pads (plastic, aluminium) to try out more? Seems the 3310 Mionix' aren't so good anymore on non-cloth surfaces, at least at first sight.


Since tha Avior has the same sensor, i assume yes. I only have my 1030˘2 L left now, and i use my G502. I already put my naos 7000 up for sale (europe).


----------



## TK421

Anyone know if the sensor is tolerant to graphic in the mousepad?

My V8 optical does not track well in multicolored mousepad.


----------



## L4dd

Here's why I stated that the 3090 and 3310 sensors have positive "acceleration":
http://www.overclock.net/t/1441817/steelseries-rival-in-depth-review/360#post_22186148


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> Here's why I stated that the 3090 and 3310 sensors have positive "acceleration":
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1441817/steelseries-rival-in-depth-review/360#post_22186148


3366 have accel?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Crizzl*
> 
> It's kind of weird because I feel the same thing when trying to use my IME 3.0 again coming from a FK. I think it's a matter of shape/weight/friction.


You feel that the 3.0 is bad or that the FK was tracking poorly?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L4dd*
> 
> You are confirming "smoothing" on the G502?


Whatever it is that causes the feeling on other mice, it's on the g502 as well, just to a lesser degree.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> 3366 have accel?


For the 100th time: NOOOOOOOOOOOO!


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> For the 100th time: NOOOOOOOOOOOO!


does it have smoothing then?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> does it have smoothing then?


nope


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Naos 7000 has tracking issues on a 1030^2 L (plastic pad, right?)? Does that mean Avior 7000 is affected as well? Do you have other hard pads (plastic, aluminium) to try out more? Seems the 3310 Mionix' aren't so good anymore on non-cloth surfaces, at least at first sight.


You are going to have a very hit and miss experience attempting to use 3310 mice on hard mats.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> nope


Thanks for the clarification

Does anyone feel that the scroll is sometimes ignoring a tick?


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> You are going to have a very hit and miss experience attempting to use 3310 mice on hard mats.


I didn't notice any tracking issues using Kone Pure Optical on 9HD. I might not be the most sensitive person, but I think I will see an error when it's there. For example Xai on PureTrak Talent pad. Talent was the only pad where my Xai back then stopped working or it felt like it changed dpi from (I think I used) 800 dpi to something like, I don't know, 100 dpi or so. It either was the 9500 sensor or bad implementation from SteelSeries or Talent pad just offers poor performance for non-(IR)-led based/vcsel mice. To be honest, I never tried my G500 on it since I thought it's just a bad pad or something like "since it does not track with Xai properly I won't even bother to try other mice on it". So, to clarify... Is it a general "issue" with 3310 on hard pads or just Mionix' bad/not optimal implementation? I'm asking because I expect Roccat's new Kone Pure Military and Kone XTD Optical to work flawlessly on hard pads. As I said, I didn't notice any weird tracking habbits with KPO on 9HD at all. I know you like your Mionix, but still... Just to clarify things.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> I didn't notice any tracking issues using Kone Pure Optical on 9HD. I might not be the most sensitive person, but I think I will see an error when it's there. For example Xai on PureTrak Talent pad. Talent was the only pad where my Xai back then stopped working or it felt like it changed dpi from (I think I used) 800 dpi to something like, I don't know, 100 dpi or so. It either was the 9500 sensor or bad implementation from SteelSeries or Talent pad just offers poor performance for non-(IR)-led based/vcsel mice. To be honest, I never tried my G500 on it since I thought it's just a bad pad or something like "since it does not track with Xai properly I won't even bother to try other mice on it". So, to clarify... Is it a general "issue" with 3310 on hard pads or just Mionix' bad/not optimal implementation? I'm asking because I expect Roccat's new Kone Pure Military and Kone XTD Optical to work flawlessly on hard pads. As I said, I didn't notice any weird tracking habbits with KPO on 9HD at all. I know you like your Mionix, but still... Just to clarify things.


Definitely 3310. Both my Rival and Avior acted the same way to the MM400 for example. Increased LOD. tracking was fine though.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You feel that the 3.0 is bad or that the FK was tracking poorly?
> Whatever it is that causes the feeling on other mice, it's on the g502 as well, just to a lesser degree.


I really have no idea. But I've been messing around with my deathadders and my G502 since I have OCD...

basically, if you guys want to be exact, on the BLACK EDITION deathadder at 1800 DPI, the amount of movement needed to start movement from neutral (and go left/right) pixel movement aiming, is about equal to G502 at 4000 DPI.

The old 3G deathadder at 1800 dpi requires more movement to start pointer movement (or pixel left/right movements) than the black edition; almost equal to the G502 at that same dpi.

I don't know if this is a 'flaw' or feature in the S3888(?) black edition sensor, but it REALLY REALLY helps me in league of legends for pixel aiming. It's noticeable.


----------



## Crizzl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> You feel that the 3.0 is bad or that the FK was tracking poorly?


The tracking felt fine to me on both but with the 3.0 I couldn't really find the proper sensitivity as you said it always felt like I was overshooting a bit when I shouldn't. I think it's a matter of friction where I probably sometimes use too much "force" and thus overshoots. Slippery is probably a good term.


----------



## Malvolg

I think I'm ready to give up on my g502 until Logitech decides to get their act together with it and fix the feet.

Not only do the stock feet suck and come loose/off after very little use (<1 month), the replacement feet Logitech provides and sells _also_ suck and come loose/off with very little use. The replacement feet I put on my g502 were loose and peeling within a day.

That's pretty pathetic. RMA solves nothing because the replacement feet are just as poor as the original feet (never mind the fact that the replacement sets provided aren't even complete sets) and Logitech support doesn't seem to want to help (Customer Care department is saying it's the Sales departments's deal, and vice versa).

I may try to return it and pick up something else or go back to my M45 or (gasp) Kone XTD.

Pathetic. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[edit] The problem with the mouse feet is that the adhesive used to attach the feet to the bottom doesn't attach to the feet themselves well. It attaches to the mouse just fine; it's the other side of the adhesive that's poor. When the feet loosen up and peel off, the adhesive is still stuck on the mouse for you to clean off before putting on new feet. Pain in the butt.


----------



## deepor

Can't you just glue stuff yourself? I get that it should work right for the price, and Logitech should fix this problem for you, but waiting still is annoying while it just needs a drop of glue.


----------



## Malvolg

Sounds like a good idea on paper, but it doesn't work well when the corner of a mouse foot snags on the mouse pad (QcK mass) on a swipe and the corner bends and curls. =/

I think Logitech just chose a poor adhesive for the initial g502 run (3M double sided tissue tape in this instance). I'm sure later runs will have better adhesive, but who knows when that will be.


----------



## jologskyblues

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Thanks for the clarification
> 
> Does anyone feel that the scroll is sometimes ignoring a tick?


I feel like mine does that too particularly when scrolling through websites. That's probably because of the loose hyperscroll lock mechanism and the large notches on the wheel.


----------



## Malvolg

It's because the g502 uses an optical encoder as opposed to a mechanical encoder, so the mouse scrolling isn't dependent on the wheel notches.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Malvolg*
> 
> It's because the g502 uses an optical encoder as opposed to a mechanical encoder, so the mouse scrolling isn't dependent on the wheel notches.


Well, most encoders are optical, they are used in almost all office mice by logitech since years. I don't think the issue has to do with the optical encoder itself.


----------



## Falkentyne

I don't know...might be some sort of cpu or gpu usage making things not register. like you know when you open some flash heavy sites and start scrolling, the scrolling is either lagged or missed or something...

But start up UT2004 and start changing weapons.....the weapons change instantly, never missing a beat......


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> I don't know...might be some sort of cpu or gpu usage making things not register. like you know when you open some flash heavy sites and start scrolling, the scrolling is either lagged or missed or something...
> 
> But start up UT2004 and start changing weapons.....the weapons change instantly, never missing a beat......


scroll thru 9gag page and you'll feel the wheel missing a tick or two.

also, how bad are the mouse feet in your experience(s)? mine sticks fine, but the edges of the mouse feet acts like a dust magnet, and I can't get it off :/


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> scroll thru *9gag*


I just puked a little in my mouth


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I just puked a little in my mouth


why?


----------



## eXteR

I've been playing with my new G502 all the weekend. Mainly with Battlefield 4.

At first it was hard to get used to it. It felt heavier than MX518 (not a light mouse..) and also the dpi settings are far different on G502.

I used to play on MX518 with 800dpi on foot and 1600 on vehicle.

With G502 the 1200 on foot and 3500 on vehicle, plus 6000 on Jet or Helicopter.

After 15h of gameplay, now it feels incredible, precise, smooth.

Probably i'll buy new teflon surfers when available, because i feel the stock ones slow the movement a bit.


----------



## TK421

Anyone feel that the scroll wheel also make a "tick" sound when you move it really slowly in the non-freescroll mode?


----------



## r0ach

People talking about smoothing on this mouse, this mouse isn't anywhere near as laggy as a 4000 DPI Avago 3090 ROM. I do feel like the movement is more processed or artificial feeling than older mice though. Older architecture feels much more raw for input.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *eXteR*
> 
> I've been playing with my new G502 all the weekend. Mainly with Battlefield 4.
> 
> At first it was hard to get used to it. It felt heavier than MX518 (not a light mouse..) and also the dpi settings are far different on G502.
> 
> I used to play on MX518 with 800dpi on foot and 1600 on vehicle.
> 
> With G502 the 1200 on foot and 3500 on vehicle, plus 6000 on Jet or Helicopter.
> 
> After 15h of gameplay, now it feels incredible, precise, smooth.
> 
> Probably i'll buy new teflon surfers when available, because i feel the stock ones slow the movement a bit.


Same here, I can't wait for some Hyperglides for it.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Same here, I can't wait for some Hyperglides for it.


Why not metal skates?


----------



## Malvolg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> scroll thru 9gag page and you'll feel the wheel missing a tick or two.


I'm pretty sure that's not the wheel missing a beat; it's the website pausing to load more pictures.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Why not metal skates?


Maybe on a cloth pad, but on a hardpad metal skates would be terrible.

Not only would they ruin the pad, but any speck of dust or debris would be grinding all over the place.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Maybe on a cloth pad, but on a hardpad metal skates would be terrible.
> 
> Not only would they ruin the pad, but any speck of dust or debris would be grinding all over the place.


Ha! Or the best combo ever. A heavy mouse like the G502 with metal skates on an Icemat. /shiver...


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Maybe on a cloth pad, but on a hardpad metal skates would be terrible.
> 
> Not only would they ruin the pad, but any speck of dust or debris would be grinding all over the place.


I actually use metal skates on an mm400, it glides faster than on qck+ (Prob because the cloth sinks)

The glide speed is hugely affected by moisture though, so I try to always keep it clean.


----------



## justnvc

I'm reviewing/using this at the moment









Logitech have a competition going on for Nordic residents to win one of the mice, i made a quick video on it:


----------



## Axaion

Can really feel i havent played any fps games for years in this =\

Im from denmark so if i do manage to get 50k+ and they remove the cheaters.. its all good lol

1st attempt, 41k









Edit; i wonder, can you only submit once per day?, or can you keep playing and submit if you get a better score?


----------



## Elsandre

Just got this mouse today after reading Ino's review and others.

*Story:*

My previous mouse, the Roccat Kone left me with alot of problems throughout the time i've used it.
Driver problems and the mouse somehow corrupting all my USB ports forcing to replug my keyboard/headset alot.
Also the last -/+ year it started jittering alot and I got really frustrated in fps games.
It was time for a quest to search for a new mouse! Time to find one that wouldn't disappoint me!









After alot of reading throughout the net, to search for a good mouse, I came across the Moinix Naos 7000, or this one.
Since most enthousiasts and the most hard-to-please people here and on other forums are so psyched about the G502 sensor,
and it costed me € 65,- here in the Netherlands, instead of € 80,- for the Mionix Naos 7000, I chose the G502.

*Ergonomics:*

The G502 Looks and feels solid, what you would expect from on average € 80,- mouse.
The Coarse rubber sides are a good additive in my opinion for picking up and fast movement.

For me it really fits well in my hand, I have pretty large hands and thin fingers, and my fingers are just at the end of the L/R buttons.
Most mice are too small for me and leave my fingers either suspending in the air or drag them along the pad.
I use a palm-grip and my ringfinger and pinky are in a semi claw-grip, I don't know how to explain it any other way.

The buttons feel solid and click with a non-irritating click.

The sidebuttons are easy access and you can distinct them easily by touch, the DPI switch buttons are a little harder to reach.
But I guess I will not be using them frequently, maybe when playing BF4 and it's tank-time or something like that








The "sniper" button is new for me and really didn't need it for sniping, works awesome without it.
Maybe I will try it later.

The only thing I need to get by is the bulky scroll wheel that makes a clanky noise each time you scroll it.
But it's pretty sturdy and the free-wheel scrolling makes it alot better.

The mouse seems to glide better without the magnetcap on it, so I took it off and it feels more balanced this way.
There was no need for me to put on more weight anyway.

When I pick up the mouse naturally with my thumb, ringfinger and pinky, it's balance seems to be perfect with no sloping to either side.

*Esthetics:*

I don't really like the looks of it except that the G on it lights blue since my Corsair K90 keyboard lights blue as well.
My wife finds it "futuristic" but nothing more than that.
But that is the least of my concern for a gaming mouse, as I will be looking at the screen, not the mouse
Did I mention I like blue?









*Performance:*

The G502 has left me awed after the horrible Roccat, I've used it for about 2 hours now and already got used to it in BF4.
More accurate quick aims, making headshots more frequently and better, more fluent enemy tracking.

Did a bit of testing with mousetest (they should release a more user friendly one imo... smoothing...)
My hand is still tintling from the speed test, note that I did not went off the pad.
The Kone did 3.39 on this test, not that anyone would use this or higher in games.

Precision is tested by quickly moving the mouse around to induce errorprone situations, but im happy with the 99.2%








For comparison: my Roccat Kone did 97.4% in the same test (don't know if that says alot though).

I couldn't get smoothness working after about 5 min of making circles with a tintling hand, so I gave up.
I did see some pixels at times that would indicate smoothing but it was one or two every ten seconds or so.
Same with my Kone, just doesn't seems to work properly for some reason.

sidenote: I've tested my Roccat a few days before buying the G502 but didn't save the data, now it's used by me at work.

Mousetest:


Jitter seems to be non-existent in the mouse (Hurraaaayyy!)
Don't judge my awesome paint skills









The Jitter test:


Hope this helps anyone.
Overall very happy with it, this is the rating I would give the mouse:

*Ergonomics: 8
Esthetics: 6
Performance: 9
Price: 7.5 (if you can get it for €/$ 65,-







)
*


----------



## hza

Which Kone did you have actually? I'd guess 1st gen. Had Kone Pure Optical for a while and only gave it away because it was slightly too small for my hand. Other than that


----------



## kornedbeefy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Which Kone did you have actually? I'd guess 1st gen. Had Kone Pure Optical for a while and only gave it away because it was slightly too small for my hand. Other than that


to add to hza question, how big is the G502 compared to the Kone you used?

I have the Kone Pure Optical and its pretty much perfect for my hand size/grip style. At this point I'm just looking for a better sensor which I will find in the Kone Optical Military with the PMW3310H. Does the G502 have a better sensor?


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kornedbeefy*
> 
> to add to hza question, how big is the G502 compared to the Kone you used?
> 
> I have the Kone Pure Optical and its pretty much perfect for my hand size/grip style. At this point I'm just looking for a better sensor which I will find in the Kone Optical Military with the PMW3310H. Does the G502 have a better sensor?


Yes, the 502 has a better sensor, but thats not saying the 3310 is not a very good sensor itself.

on another note, how the '¨´-,.! did anyone get 65k in that game, i havent even seen 60 targets yet, and the max is 1k per target 0_o


----------



## Elsandre

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kornedbeefy*
> 
> to add to hza question, how big is the G502 compared to the Kone you used?
> 
> I have the Kone Pure Optical and its pretty much perfect for my hand size/grip style. At this point I'm just looking for a better sensor which I will find in the Kone Optical Military with the PMW3310H. Does the G502 have a better sensor?


I have the first-gen Kone.
The G502 is slightly smaller and longer, also I like the lack of the Kone's thumbpit.
As I said, It fits my big hand and small fingers perfectly.
My ringfinger/pinky cannot fit on the right side fully rested so I have them in a sort of claw grip, the rest of my hand is in a palm grip.

added some pics:



The sensor of the G502 is awesome and for me it is perfectly accurate.
I must say I haven't had much experience using gaming mice other than the Kone, before that I gamed on the console and laptop with a Logitech Nano VX mouse.

To be honest, I am very picky about my hardware, almost to the point of OCD.
For example: I have swapped my casefans completely for four times, finally brought all Noctua's before being satisfied with the silence/performance, overal costed me about €200,- on casefans....







.


----------



## hza

I thought so. Roccat improved over the years I'd say with Savu onwards. Before that I didn't like their products either.


----------



## Hola Como Estas

This Mouse or Mionix Avior 7000 or Corsair M45? (Grip)


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hola Como Estas*
> 
> This Mouse or Mionix Avior 7000 or Corsair M45? (Grip)


Which ever one fits your hand best.

But those are all flawed mice. Why did you narrow your choices down to those 3?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Which ever one fits your hand best.
> 
> But those are all flawed mice. Why did you narrow your choices down to those 3?


Flawed...


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Which ever one fits your hand best.
> 
> But those are all flawed mice. Why did you narrow your choices down to those 3?


So the only viable mice are 1.1 and 3.0 right?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> So the only viable mice are 1.1 and 3.0 right?


Did I say that?

Seriously, you people act like you're all here trying to sell your faulty, disingenuously marketed products to ignorant casuals. The way you get emotional and defensive whenever someone points out glaring flaws in almost all new mice.

If you were just regular forum users looking for good mice, it would be in your interest to pressure manufacturers to release sensors at least as accurate as the MLT04, rather than these ridiculously high DPI settings that less than 0.1% of mouse users need.

@DivineDark
Good thing you edited your post. That ridiculous comment was going to be torn apart.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Did I say that?
> 
> Seriously, you people act like you're all here trying to sell your faulty, disingenuously marketed products to ignorant casuals. The way you get emotional and defensive whenever someone points out glaring flaws in almost all new mice.
> 
> If you were just regular forum users looking for good mice, it would be in your interest to pressure manufacturers to release sensors at least as accurate as the MLT04, rather than these ridiculously high DPI settings that less than 0.1% of mouse users need.


Then do all of these normal forum users a favor and provide some options of actual, modern mice that will work just as well in modern shooters as CS 1.6, at a modern resolution, with a reasonable perfect control speed.

That list is... Nothing that I've ever seen you mention. You preach the MLT04, and that's fine. Definitely your opinion and that's valid. But the fact of the matter is that the most accurate, least flawed mouse sensors on the market right now (that you can actually go buy at a shop) are the 3310 and 3366. The non-4000DPI 3090 isn't bad either. Even the 4000DPI 3090 is better than any laser mouse on the market, in my opinion.

I don't mean to keep getting on your case, but you talk like you are an authority on modern mice. I know a lot about mice, but when I give people opinions on mice, I state that it is my opinion and provide options and my reasoning.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Did I say that?
> 
> Seriously, you people act like you're all here trying to sell your faulty, disingenuously marketed products to ignorant casuals. The way you get emotional and defensive whenever someone points out glaring flaws in almost all new mice.
> 
> If you were just regular forum users looking for good mice, it would be in your interest to pressure manufacturers to release sensors at least as accurate as the MLT04, rather than these ridiculously high DPI settings that less than 0.1% of mouse users need.
> 
> @DivineDark
> Good thing you edited your post. That ridiculous comment was going to be torn apart.


Those flawes you are talking about does not bother or even can be felt by 99.99999% of the people. It is not Avago 9500/9800 flaws like big inconsistent acceleration.


----------



## deepor

Those 400 DPI of the MLT04 are also making the mouse impossible for a lot of people I bet. I know I simply wouldn't be happy using it. I really feel I need 800 DPI or so for 1920 pixel wide screens.

Something like 2000 DPI on the desktop also isn't strange to use. Someone accustomed to that simply couldn't possibly be happy with a WMO.

4K monitors might not be that far off. I'd need 1600 to 2000 DPI for that kind of screen and someone currently using 2000 DPI will need 4000 DPI, so it seems it's necessary that the engineers look into sensors that can do those kinds of DPI and it's not really a gimmick.

Broodwar ran in 640x480 resolution. If you want the same feel as a 400 DPI mouse had for that, using the 480 pixel screen height to translate into today's 1080p or 1920x1200 screens, you end up wanting 900 DPI or 1000 DPI for the mouse. If you look at the 640 pixel width and translate that to 1920 pixel, you want 1200 DPI for the mouse. Then going up to a 4K screen, it'll be 1800 DPI or 2400 DPI.

Overall it's weird to recommend the WMO today. No idea what to do with regards to a snappy feeling for the sensor... it might just not be possible to recreate that with high DPI without some sort of redesign that the manufacturers aren't willing to ever look into.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Then do all of these normal forum users a favor and provide some options of actual, modern mice that will work just as well in modern shooters as CS 1.6, at a modern resolution, with a reasonable perfect control speed.
> 
> That list is... Nothing that I've ever seen you mention. You preach the MLT04, and that's fine. Definitely your opinion and that's valid. But the fact of the matter is that the most accurate, least flawed mouse sensors on the market right now *(that you can actually go buy at a shop)* are the 3310 and 3366. The non-4000DPI 3090 isn't bad either. Even the 4000DPI 3090 is better than any laser mouse on the market, in my opinion.
> 
> I don't mean to keep getting on your case, but you talk like you are an authority on modern mice. I know a lot about mice, but when I give people opinions on mice, I state that it is my opinion and provide options and my reasoning.


I play a lot of different games on a "modern resolution" and haven't found a game yet that's required more than 400dpi. Sure it would be nice to have 800dpi at times, but the negatives of 800dpi+ mice FAR outweigh the slight benefit of not having to move your mouse as much on the desktop.
For games, anything over 400dpi (especially since rawinput has been implemented) is unnecessary unless the game has been coded terribly to the point that the ingame sensitivity setting somehow negatively effects mouse movement/accuracy.

"_reasonable perfect control speed_" is completely subjective, and is really the only factor that I would agree should lead someone to buy an inferior (accuracy) sensor. The 3.0 @ 500hz has been plenty sufficient for myself and many other competitive and pro players. One of the benefits of the sensor is that it's accuracy allows you to use a higher sensitivity.

Yes, unfortunately the availability is pretty scanty, but you can still find them at reasonable prices.

I've been looking for a new mouse to replace my intellimouse 3.0 for many many years. The shape/grip is subpar, the mousewheel autoscrolls sometimes, it has to be manually overclocked to 500hz, the PCS could be higher, and it's only 400dpi.

Even with all those flaws, it's still by far, the #1 choice for me because of these garbage mice (both shape and/or sensor) that manufacturers keep releasing because of their ridiculous dpi war, marketing bull****.

And the fact that the vast majority of users on these forums seem to be casuals, makes me a much better authority on these matters.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> 4K monitors might not be that far off. I'd need 1600 to 2000 DPI for that kind of screen and someone currently using 2000 DPI will need 4000 DPI, so it seems it's necessary that the engineers look into sensors that can do those kinds of DPI and it's not really a gimmick.


The fact is that they've been releasing these ridiculously high DPI mice (and in so doing, degrading the accuracy) long before 4k resolutions were ever going to be used by the mainstream.

I've never tried various DPI on a 4k monitor, but I'd guess that 2k DPI would be more than plenty.

Razor released a very good 2k DPI mouse (copperhead) many many years ago. It had one major flaw (low malfunction speed) that they should have concentrated on improving, rather than nerfing accuracy in trade for higher DPI that almost no one needed at that point.


----------



## TK421

How is an MLT04 better than 3366?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Those flawes you are talking about does not bother or even can be felt by 99.99999% of the people. It is not Avago 9500/9800 flaws like big inconsistent acceleration.


I completely disagree with your statistical assumption. Every single competitive gamer that I've talked to who's used a 3.0 as well as other mice, has agreed with me that the difference is very clear. I've also gotten PMs from people on this site saying the same thing.

It's true that casual gamers will notice it much less though, due to both the games they're playing as well as lack of experience/comparison with the 3.0.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> How is an MLT04 better than 3366?


The 3366 has the same "smoothing" effect that causes a feeling of inaccuracy, that almost all other >400dpi mice have. It's just a little less so than say the 3090 or 3310.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I completely disagree with your statistical assumption. Every single competitive gamer that I've talked to who's used a 3.0 as well as other mice, has agreed with me that the difference is very clear. I've also gotten PMs from people on this site saying the same thing.
> 
> It's true that casual gamers will notice it much less though, due to both the games they're playing as well as lack of experience/comparison with the 3.0.
> The 3366 has the same "smoothing" effect that causes a feeling of inaccuracy, that almost all other >400dpi mice have. It's just a little less so than say the 3090 or 3310.


How can you test this smoothing effect? At what DPi range is the sensor affected by it?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> How can you test this smoothing effect? At what DPi range is the sensor affected by it?


All ranges. The 3366 & 3310 have 50dpi native settings. So they should all act the same, except for the increase in jitter when you get up to the max settings.

Ino suggested that 1200dpi on the 3366 should be the most optimal, so I tested it on that but didn't see much of a difference.

As far as how to test it, the best game I know of is counter-strike 1.6. Newer, casual games are less optimized and have higher input lag.

Even though CSGO is shown there to have significantly lower input lag than those other games, there is still a difference when going from 1.6 to CSGO. It's still noticeable, but less so.


----------



## DivineDark

Actually, you are no better qualified than us "casuals". The fact of the matter is that you seem to be pretty dang good at CS1.6 from what you say. I'm all on board for that. I'm sure the butt kicking you could give me would be glorious, but I was a competitive SC2 player... Does that make me an authority too? Metal could probably hand both of us our butts in BF4, as it's his preferred place to hang his hat. Just being good at one game doesn't make you an authority. I own over 40 mice, and have used them all with a multitude of surfaces in a large number of circumstances. Does that make me an authority more so than a "casual"? Nope. It just means I can chime in with my opinion and experiences on more mice for those that are curious.

As for the 3.0. I own one. It's great. I don't do 400dpi. I know a lot do, and this mouse is still an option for them... As long as they're not on W8... As long as they don't mind manually overclocking their USB port... As long as they don't have a faster than 1.5m/s swipe... As long as they don't mind the negative acceleration if they breach that... As long as they don't mind having to import the mouse from China...

There are a ton of negatives to the mouse as well. You've said as much yourself. Even you seem to have an issue that most don't mention with the 3.0, and that's the shape. Almost everyone I know is still searching for an analog for that mouse shape. As for options... There are flaws to every single mouse on the market right now. Shape, Weight, acceleration, prediction, cursor feel, lift off distance, z-axis, switches, buttons, scroll wheels, and cables. It's just a matter of what's more important to the user, and what they're willing to accept.


----------



## Ino.

Max the only problem here is that you are "preaching" your knowledge sometimes, then there comes the rant and then you explain it and it's fine.

You should just not call the 3310, 3366, 3090 flawed just because you prefer the MLT04. The MLT04 would be flawed for me because it would skip all the time and neg accel on me. Yet I don't call it flawed.
That's really the only issue, nothing wrong with informing people that there is still the MLT04 out there for those that look exactly for that feeling (you call it accuracy) you need.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> You should just not call the 3310, 3366, 3090 flawed just because you prefer the MLT04.


I don't think that's an accurate statement.

It's not simply preference.

Something like using 800 or 1000 DPI is preference. Something like using 2.4 or 2.8 sensitivity is preference.

The accuracy of those sensors are flawed because of whatever's causing that smoothing effect.

Choosing to use those sensors anyway because you feel like you need that high of malfunction speed is preference.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Actually, you are no better qualified than us "casuals". The fact of the matter is that you seem to be pretty dang good at CS1.6 from what you say. I'm all on board for that. I'm sure the butt kicking you could give me would be glorious, but I was a competitive SC2 player... Does that make me an authority too? Metal could probably hand both of us our butts in BF4, as it's his preferred place to hang his hat. Just being good at one game doesn't make you an authority. I own over 40 mice, and have used them all with a multitude of surfaces in a large number of circumstances. Does that make me an authority more so than a "casual"? Nope. It just means I can chime in with my opinion and experiences on more mice for those that are curious.
> 
> As for the 3.0. I own one. It's great. I don't do 400dpi. I know a lot do, and this mouse is still an option for them... As long as they're not on W8... As long as they don't mind manually overclocking their USB port... As long as they don't have a faster than 1.5m/s swipe... As long as they don't mind the negative acceleration if they breach that... As long as they don't mind having to import the mouse from China...
> 
> There are a ton of negatives *to the mouse* as well. You've said as much yourself. Even you seem to have an issue that most don't mention with the 3.0, and that's the shape. Almost everyone I know is still searching for an analog for that mouse shape. As for options... There are flaws to every single mouse on the market right now. Shape, Weight, acceleration, prediction, cursor feel, lift off distance, z-axis, switches, buttons, scroll wheels, and cables. It's just a matter of what's more important to the user, and what they're willing to accept.


Yes, I openly admit the various flaws with the 3.0. Just because there are flaws with it doesn't mean I can't point out the (arguably worse) flaws with the all the other mice, or that I have to list all the flaws with the 3.0 every time I criticize another mouse...

I played SC2 competitively as well, and the 3.0 is too big/heavy for that kind of game, which is another major reason I'm looking for a replacement.

*I am on these forums for the sole purpose of finding a replacement mouse*...

Experience and expertise absolutely make someone more qualified to comment on a subject.


----------



## Atavax

when you use the vague insult that the mice use flawed sensors, you are implying that other sensors aren't flawed. However every sensor has drawbacks. I also think a low max pcs is just as objectively a flaw as smoothing. Yes, many people don't need a high PCS, and most people don't even notice the smoothing.


----------



## xmr1

A person being less accurate with a sensor does not equal the sensor being less accurate.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> You should just not call the 3310, 3366, 3090 flawed just because you prefer the MLT04. The MLT04 would be flawed for me because it would skip all the time and neg accel on me. Yet I don't call it flawed.


3310, 3366 and 3090 are imo not flawed sensors, but have flawed implementations out of a commercial aspect.

But that's just my point of view (and perhaps less insulting).

EDIT: Has anyone ever tried "preaching" on all of the manufacturers forums actually? Persuade and lecture their own casual customers. Teach the casual G500 owner why he's getting his ass handed to him by a G400 or MX518 for instance?

I do vaguely remember saying something on the Logitech twitter feed but it got removed lol.


----------



## metal571

Oh god here we go again.

Fine, we get it, the MLT04 is the minimally processed sensor. Fine, it is possible to feel the difference. I'm actually even inclined to agree, having used the 1.1A @ 1000 Hz myself and being amazed by the response in "crappier games" like COD4. Definitely less input lag in that game than BF4, and it's very obvious.

But you can't try to keep telling people what they're using is crap and that EVERYTHING ELSE is complete trash. Pros have dominated with Senseis, the Kinzu V1, Rivals, you name it. It's not as much about what you use as how you adapt to it if you were truly "top-tier." Equipment is sometimes even an afterthought at that level unless there are much more glaring issues like straight up malfunctioning. You should know this by now, I don't know why you don't even consider that point.

You probably have played 1.6 at LANs, on CEVO, whatever. One of my best buddies back in the day was a CAL-I player, I am JUST AS WELL versed in what professional gamers need in mice as you, and I actually understand what you are talking about 100%. It doesn't matter how good you are, just how much you understand the needs. But that doesn't mean everyone is going to care about the same stuff.

To make my point short: equipment only matters so much, I don't care how good you are. Sure, the MLT04 has less input lag than a 3310, 3366, or 3090. That doesn't stop me from absolutely dominating with this fine Swedish death machine of a mouse.

Go ahead, give ScreaM an MLT04, he'll play no different. Maybe even worse since he's used to something else. You and I both know that's a damn fact. This is a circular argument.

STOP telling people MLT04 is the only sensor that's usable. Not everyone has devoted their life to tournament gaming, and many of us do just fine with 3310s.


----------



## nocebo

Been playing CS go with my new g502 today and i must say the sensor is really good. As others have said before me there is some issues with the build quality.

I dont think its a problem with the weight on this mouse bit i would perfer a lighter mouse


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nocebo*
> 
> Been playing CS go with my new g502 today and i must say the sensor is really good. As others have said before me there is some issues with the build quality.
> 
> I dont think its a problem with the weight on this mouse bit i would perfer a lighter mouse


Yeah heavy mice aren't really unusable, but I just find lighter mice easier to play with.

Swapped to my FK last night from the Avior, noticeably less wrist fatigue alone was nice.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Swedish death machine of a mouse.


Rated M for Mature haha lolololo


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Go ahead, give ScreaM an MLT04, he'll play no different. Maybe even worse since he's used to something else. You and I both know that's a damn fact. This is a circular argument.


No, I don't believe that is a fact.

Professional gamers change their hardware fairly often, and their performance changes often as well. I was watching a VOD recently and the casters were talking about how Scream's performance dipped recently.

I've said this before, that pro gamers aren't going to come out and complain about their sponsor's hardware. Though people like get_right (and probably others) have said they miss their old 3.0's.

Can you make do with an inferior sensor? Yes. That doesn't mean we should be recommending them to people. Especially given the way manufacturers are purposely degrading the accuracy in trade for useless DPI numbers.
Quote:


> STOP telling people MLT04 is the only sensor that's usable. Not everyone has devoted their life to tournament gaming, and many of us do just fine with 3310s.


I never said this. There you go again putting words into my mouth.


----------



## the1onewolf

Steelseries welp


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Can you make do with an inferior sensor? Yes. That doesn't mean we should be recommending them to people. Especially given the way manufacturers are purposely degrading the accuracy in trade for useless DPI numbers.


When only one sensor is what you consider "not inferior" is when you have an issue. There's nothing wrong with considering the MLT04, but there is something wrong with saying it's the only good sensor ever made when the difference is actually quite small between it and other modern optical sensors, especially for those not as experienced.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I never said this. There you go again putting words into my mouth.


This is what people are going to infer from what you are saying. That's my point.


----------



## Elsandre

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I don't think that's an accurate statement.
> 
> It's not simply preference.
> 
> Something like using 800 or 1000 DPI is preference. Something like using 2.4 or 2.8 sensitivity is preference.
> 
> The accuracy of those sensors are flawed because of whatever's causing that smoothing effect.
> 
> Choosing to use those sensors anyway because you feel like you need that high of malfunction speed is preference.
> Yes, I openly admit the various flaws with the 3.0. Just because there are flaws with it doesn't mean I can't point out the (arguably worse) flaws with the all the other mice, or that I have to list all the flaws with the 3.0 every time I criticize another mouse...
> 
> I played SC2 competitively as well, and the 3.0 is too big/heavy for that kind of game, which is another major reason I'm looking for a replacement.
> 
> *I am on these forums for the sole purpose of finding a replacement mouse*...
> 
> Experience and expertise absolutely make someone more qualified to comment on a subject.


Did you try any of the mice you are being so negative about?
Because to me you sound like someone who doesn't want change at all (no offense).
From what I read is that the most effective mice are the Avior/Naos 7000 or G502.
My experience with the G502 so far is great, it feels responsive accurate and from what mousetest tells me, there is no smoothing, at all.
Also there is no Jitter and from what I can feel no accelaration issues.

And all the DPI on the G502 are native with no up/downscaling
Ok, no one needs 12k dpi yet, but when x3/x6 4k monitors set-up's are more frequent, it will be become a must.
The DPI race for desktops has begun again with the 4k monitors racing in, getting cheaper every month.
And almost no one only plays CS, to be honest, I own it but never played it.
There are alot of other games out there that are more fun and better looking imo, and yes, I am a graphics addict


----------



## Necroblob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Experience and expertise absolutely make someone more qualified to comment on a subject.


I have played CS1.6 for over a decade and CSGO since it was released. I have competed in numerous online cups and ladders and attended several LAN tournaments in the UK. I've also got extensive experience with the Microsoft mice having used them since I started playing CS1.6 and 20 or so other gaming mice for comparison. Hopefully that means I'm qualified to comment.

The MLT04 was an absolutely amazing sensor at the time, but it's not appropriate for everyone. Most of the people on this forum will want 1000hz out of the box and more than 400DPI which immediately rules it out for them. There are others like myself who really notice any input lag or imprecision on a mouse sensor and continued to use the Microsoft mice for a long time. But even I appreciate that the MLT04 has some pretty significant drawbacks and to state that the 3366 or 3010 are "flawed" is simply misleading. Much better that someone coming to this forum for advice picks up a G502 or Avior 7000 than a RAT 7.


----------



## Atavax

if someone is thinking about a mouse with a MLT04, 3310, AM010, 3366, or even the 3090 in Zowie mice; no one should be bashing the sensor and saying that its flawed. You can point out what its flaws are, but that comment should follow the comment that its one of the best sensors currently available.

I'd be interested in comparisons in responsiveness between the MLT04, AM010, 3366, and Zowie's 3090 at 2300 dpi.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elsandre*
> 
> Did you try any of the mice you are being so negative about?
> Because to me you sound like someone who doesn't want change at all (no offense).
> From what I read is that the most effective mice are the Avior/Naos 7000 or G502.
> My experience with the G502 so far is great, it feels responsive accurate and from what mousetest tells me, there is no smoothing, at all.
> Also there is no Jitter and from what I can feel no accelaration issues.
> 
> And all the DPI on the G502 are native with no up/downscaling
> Ok, no one needs 12k dpi yet, but when x3/x6 4k monitors set-up's are more frequent, it will be become a must.
> The DPI race for desktops has begun again with the 4k monitors racing in, getting cheaper every month.
> And almost no one only plays CS, to be honest, I own it but never played it.
> There are alot of other games out there that are more fun and better looking imo, and yes, I am a graphics addict


Yes, he has used those mice. His videos are on YouTube. They usually don't say anything other than the fact that he doesn't like the cursor feel, but they're there.

Enotus tests smoothNESS not smoothING. Two wildly different things. Also, that test is 100% inaccurate. Enotus is only useful for max control speed, and DPI.

For future reference, try not to diss a game like CS by saying other games look better. That has nothing to do with mice or accuracy, while CS does require extreme precision from a mouse to be effective.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> if someone is thnking about a mouse with a MLT04, 3310, AM010, 3366, or even the 3090 in Zowie mice; no one should be bashing the sensor and saying that its flawed. You can point out what its flaws, but that comment should follow the comment that its one of the best sensors currently available.
> 
> I'd be interested in comparisons in responsiveness between the MLT04, AM010, 3366, and Zowie's 3090 at 2300 dpi.


That would be FANTASTIC! Unfortunately, it's impossible to test that at the moment... Until there is a crazy test jig/highspeed camera/computer contraption put together, we get the opportunity of hearing how people just FEEL it. Yay for that.


----------



## Elsandre

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Yes, he has used those mice. His videos are on YouTube. They usually don't say anything other than the fact that he doesn't like the cursor feel, but they're there.
> 
> Enotus tests smoothNESS not smoothING. Two wildly different things. Also, that test is 100% inaccurate. Enotus is only useful for max control speed, and DPI.
> 
> For future reference, try not to diss a game like CS by saying other games look better. That has nothing to do with mice or accuracy, while CS does require extreme precision from a mouse to be effective.


All the reviews i've read so far say it doesn't have smoothing, but I guess there is no way for us commoners to test that.
I don't have enough experience with different mice to confirm or test it.

As I see it, I didn't diss CS at all...








I just said that I have it, but don't play it.
And that almost no one *only* plays CS.
And that *I think* there are alot of better looking games and I like graphics.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elsandre*
> 
> All the reviews i've read so far say it doesn't have smoothing, but I guess there is no way for us commoners to test that.
> I don't have enough experience with different mice to confirm or test it.
> 
> As I see it, I didn't diss CS at all...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I just said that I have it, but don't play it.
> And that almost no one *only* plays CS.
> And that *I think* there are alot of better looking games and I like graphics.


There is no way to prove or test smoothing. As I mentioned before, most don't even agree what "smoothing" actually is. It has a range of descriptions and boils down to cursor feel. Some people are bothered by the way the cursor feels on some sensors. The buzz word that came out of that is "smoothing". Again, there is no way to test it. You just have to use the mouse and see if you like it, or believe something with the tracking is off. The easiest mice to test this sensitivity are the Deathadder 2013 and Logitech G400s. Those mice are beaten down consistently for having an overly processed, disconnected, or smooth feeling to the cursor movement.

There are other afflictions, such as input lag, that are also newer concerns. Some of our members are working on ways to test that. Still nothing of note has come out of it.

I understand what you're saying about CS. I'm just saying how it came off to me.


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Oh god here we go again.
> 
> Fine, we get it, the MLT04 is the minimally processed sensor. Fine, it is possible to feel the difference. I'm actually even inclined to agree, having used the 1.1A @ 1000 Hz myself and being amazed by the response in "crappier games" like COD4. Definitely less input lag in that game than BF4, and it's very obvious.
> 
> But you can't try to keep telling people what they're using is crap and that EVERYTHING ELSE is complete trash. Pros have dominated with Senseis, the Kinzu V1, Rivals, you name it. It's not as much about what you use as how you adapt to it if you were truly "top-tier." Equipment is sometimes even an afterthought at that level unless there are much more glaring issues like straight up malfunctioning. You should know this by now, I don't know why you don't even consider that point.
> 
> You probably have played 1.6 at LANs, on CEVO, whatever. One of my best buddies back in the day was a CAL-I player, I am JUST AS WELL versed in what professional gamers need in mice as you, and I actually understand what you are talking about 100%. It doesn't matter how good you are, just how much you understand the needs. But that doesn't mean everyone is going to care about the same stuff.
> 
> To make my point short: equipment only matters so much, I don't care how good you are. Sure, the MLT04 has less input lag than a 3310, 3366, or 3090. That doesn't stop me from absolutely dominating with this fine Swedish death machine of a mouse.
> 
> Go ahead, give ScreaM an MLT04, he'll play no different. Maybe even worse since he's used to something else. You and I both know that's a damn fact. This is a circular argument.
> 
> STOP telling people MLT04 is the only sensor that's usable. Not everyone has devoted their life to tournament gaming, and many of us do just fine with 3310s.


Alot of these mice can be used very well, but that doesn't mean we should keep our mouths shut and stop demanding perfection








(perfection is a dangerous word to use I know, but I mean it more in the sense of "striving for it")

For now (until better mice come along with similar shapes), if it were a little lighter I would be using the Avior 7000 myself, which is a 3310 mouse. At the end of the day, as u mentioned, malfunctioning, is a big problem, which is one I also had up until the 3090/3310 mice started hitting the market.

Basically when you look at it, Sujoy back in the day pointed out a very obvious flaw in alot of mice: malfunctioning and perfect control speed. It took a while but manufacturers picked up on it and have (pretty much imo) fixed it.

The next step is actual accuracy over "inflated dpi". By no means are the 3090 or 3310 mice bad, but could they be better? Hell yes.

Is the cause smoothing? I don't care, whatever raises the bar in performance will do.

Though someone with the right equipment (resources, knowledge and... money?) could present them with cold hard facts again.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> When only one sensor is what you consider "not inferior" is when you have an issue. There's nothing wrong with considering the MLT04, but there is something wrong with saying it's the only good sensor ever made when the difference is actually quite small between it and other modern optical sensors, especially for those not as experienced.


How is it on me that manufacturers have ignored accuracy in trade for useless DPI numbers? Just because 99% of people are doing something wrong, doesn't make it right. And as long as they're doing wrong I'm going to call them out on it.

"_but there is something wrong with saying it's the only good sensor ever made_"
And I've never said this either. You're constantly raising straw man fallacies against me.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elsandre*
> 
> Did you try any of the mice you are being so negative about?


Yes. Of course. Here are recent ones, but I've tried many, many others.
Quote:


> Because to me you sound like someone who doesn't want change at all (no offense).


I've already commented on this in this thread. The sole purpose of being on this forums is to find a replacement for my 3.0. Maybe that will give you some insight on why I find it very annoying that mice manufacturers have been degrading sensor accuracy in trade for useless DPI numbers, in order to sell more mice via deceptive marketing to ignorant gamers.

Quote:


> From what I read is that the most effective mice are the Avior/Naos 7000 or G502.


Yes, I've read the same thing, and have issues with it.

Quote:


> Ok, no one needs 12k dpi yet, but when x3/x6 4k monitors set-up's are more frequent, it will be become a must.


I disagree. I'm on multiple monitors with a 400 dpi mouse, and have no problems. Sure 800dpi would be slightly more convenient, but nowhere near a necessity.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Necroblob*
> 
> The MLT04 was an absolutely amazing sensor at the time, but it's not appropriate for everyone.


Never said it was. I'm looking for a replacement myself.
Quote:


> to state that the 3366 or 3010 are "flawed" is simply misleading.


I don't agree at all.

Like I've said before, I don't have to list all the problems with the mouse I'm using every time I criticize another mouse. I openly admit all the problems with the 3.0, and I'll say it again - *I'm on here for the sole reason of finding a replacement mouse*. I never even mentioned the 3.0 to the person. I simply said there are flaws with the mice he listed.

People are treating these 3310 and 3366 mice as if they're their children... or as if they directly benefit from people buying those mice.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Alot of these mice can be used very well, but that doesn't mean we should keep our mouths shut and stop demanding perfection


This is the main point.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Which ever one fits your hand best.
> 
> But those are all flawed mice. Why did you narrow your choices down to those 3?


The way you worded this reply insinuates that this person made a mistake in narrowing his choices to those three mice, without actually assisting him by recommending him options that he "should" have looked into.

For the sake of not extending this ridiculous conversation further. Please clarify for everyone the mice you'd recommend this person go buy. I'd be curious as well. We don't want to put anymore words into your mouth or make it seem like you'd recommend nothing but the 3.0 or other MLT04 mice.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> The way you worded this reply insinuates that this person made a mistake in narrowing his choices to those three mice, without actually assisting him by recommending him options that he "should" have looked into.
> 
> For the sake of not extending this ridiculous conversation further. Please clarify for everyone the mice you'd recommend this person go buy. I'd be curious as well. We don't want to put anymore words into your mouth or make it seem like you'd recommend nothing but the 3.0 or other MLT04 mice.


Not really... It's a question that's trying to find out what he's looking for in a mouse. You can't recommend a mouse without knowing what the person's needs are.


----------



## metal571

I honestly have a hard time believing that you can feel the smoothing on the G502, when not even r0ach can. That's the closest you're going to get to the feel of the MLT04.


----------



## Falkentyne

I think he's just talking about the pixel walk thing, which probably shows up in the extreme when running a high DPI mouse at 400 dpi versus an old 400 dpi mouse like the IME/1.1A, etc.
Run the G502 at 6000+ dpi, for instance and you get that same, super snappy feel that he had in the MLT04, for example (which I'm assuming is the case here)..

My Black Edition Deathadder at 1800 DPI has this same super snappy feel thanks to it applying that pixel walk thing to make the mouse react instantly, while the 3G deathadder and G502 require more movement to start the pointer. So no, there is NO smoothing on the G502.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I honestly have a hard time believing that you can feel the smoothing on the G502, when not even r0ach can. That's the closest you're going to get to the feel of the MLT04.


No, there is zero smoothing on the G502 at any DPI. He is just nitpicking and being a mouse hipster, and I can't believe you guys are still arguing with him after so long. It's impossible for him to comprehend anything not plain, boring, and old to be better then his beloved ancient sensor...which, BTW, I used to use when it was actually new and fancy.

I'd shoot myself in the face if I had to use 400DPI on a modern computer. My monitor is 2560x1440, I'd be doing full desk FPS flick shots just to go from the task bar to the close window "X"







.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> No, there is zero smoothing on the G502 at any DPI. He is just nitpicking and being a mouse hipster, and I can't believe you guys are still arguing with him after so long. It's impossible for him to comprehend anything not plain, boring, and old to be better then his beloved ancient sensor...which, BTW, I used to use when it was actually new and fancy.
> 
> I'd shoot myself in the face if I had to use 400DPI on a modern computer. My monitor is 2560x1440, I'd be doing full desk FPS flick shots just to go from the task bar to the close window "X"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


I know. lol. 400 CPI on 1080p is definitely not enough either unless you are playing...competitive window closing?


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I know. lol. 400 CPI on 1080p is definitely not enough either unless you are playing...*competitive window closing*?


LOL!


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I honestly have a hard time believing that you can feel the smoothing on the G502, when not even r0ach can. That's the closest you're going to get to the feel of the MLT04.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> People talking about smoothing on this mouse, this mouse isn't anywhere near as laggy as a 4000 DPI Avago 3090 ROM. *I do feel like the movement is more processed or artificial feeling than older mice though. Older architecture feels much more raw for input.*


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> I think he's just talking about the pixel walk thing, which probably shows up in the extreme when running a high DPI mouse at 400 dpi versus an old 400 dpi mouse like the IME/1.1A, etc.
> Run the G502 at 6000+ dpi, for instance and you get that same, super snappy feel that he had in the MLT04, for example (which I'm assuming is the case here)..
> 
> My Black Edition Deathadder at 1800 DPI has this same super snappy feel thanks to it applying that pixel walk thing to make the mouse react instantly, while the 3G deathadder and G502 require more movement to start the pointer. So no, there is NO smoothing on the G502.


No, that's not true.

1. I've only noticed pixel walk on the Zowie mice (AM & FK). Pixel walk is when the cursor feels inaccurate when trying to do intricate movements (I noticed it when trying to select text on the desktop). It's not the same as the "smoothing" effect felt in games.

2. The 3366 feels the same on all 50dpi increments. It felt no different from 400 to 1200 (which ino said should be the "optimal" setting).

3. There is the same "smoothing" *feel* in games, as there is with most other new mice. It's just a little less so. What exactly is causing it is up for debate, but this sounds like it could be it.

4. I haven't noticed any deadzones on any mice.


----------



## InVicT2009

Just kinda ironic , that you seem to be the elitist mouse guy that strives for the best raw input feeling in a mouse, you have a pretty darn good set of headphones for gaming and your "perfect mouse of choice", yet you are runing one of the most ancient 120hz monitors in the market.

If you strive so much to improve your game why not change the monitor and stop arguing in forums about "flawed mice", i mean, do a little research and you will find out that there is plenty of monitors out there, with much lower input delay, tearing, ghosting and some of them even come with color setting to "cheat" the shadows in 1.6.

http://www.blurbusters.com/ my 2 cents.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> Just kinda ironic , that you seem to be the elitist mouse guy that strives for the best raw input feeling in a mouse, you have a pretty darn good set of headphones for gaming and your "perfect mouse of choice", yet you are runing one of the most ancient 120hz monitors in the market.
> 
> If you strive so much to improve your game why not change the monitor and stop arguing in forums about "flawed mice", i mean, do a little research and you will find out that there is plenty of monitors out there, with much lower input delay, tearing, ghosting and some of them even come with color setting to "cheat" the shadows in 1.6.
> 
> http://www.blurbusters.com/ my 2 cents.


Pretty unrelated post but I'm actually typing this on a XL2411Z I just got.

1. I was poor for a long time. I might have bought this 2233rz on ebay for $100 iirc.
2. There is very little difference so far between these two monitors. Sure you can tell the difference in the UFO test. But ingame I can't notice it at all.
3. Those "cheat" settings look TERRIBLE (and that's saying a lot since CS 1.6 is a very old game that isn't good looking by today's standards), and you can mimic them and get the same lowering of dark spots by simply raising the gamma.

Why would I "stop arguing on forums about flawed mice" when I'm here looking for a replacement mouse...


----------



## TK421

have anyone tried to use 12k DPi with their respective cm/360 in BF4? is it much snappier than 800dpi?


----------



## Atavax

so max, how does your fk compare in responsiveness or smoothing to the mlto4 mice? Is the pixel walking your only problem with zowie mice?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> so max, how does your fk compare in responsiveness or smoothing to the mlto4 mice? Is the pixel walking your only problem with zowie mice?


It compares the same as the 3310 mice (IE: the "smoothing" feel is on both), except the 3310 mice have no pixel walk problems and have more native dpi settings.


----------



## justnvc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Pretty unrelated post but I'm actually typing this on a XL2411Z I just got.
> 
> 1. I was poor for a long time. I might have bought this 2233rz on ebay for $100 iirc.
> 2. There is very little difference so far between these two monitors. Sure you can tell the difference in the UFO test. But ingame I can't notice it at all.
> 3. Those "cheat" settings look TERRIBLE (and that's saying a lot since CS 1.6 is a very old game that isn't good looking by today's standards), and you can mimic them and get the same lowering of dark spots by simply raising the gamma.
> 
> Why would I "stop arguing on forums about flawed mice" when I'm here looking for a replacement mouse...


The 2233rz has much more input lag than the XL2411Z, the XL2411Z with the blur reduction enabled has more input lag than with it disabled. The point is, you are giving input on how a mouse feels in regard to it's latency yet you'll happily play with increased monitor latency and not notice a difference. Thus, I think the point he's making is that you don't appear to be qualified to give an opinion, even though it's in everybody's right to do so. That's not to say you're incorrect in anything you say, I haven't read far back enough to question anything you've said, I don't know you. It's just that you make it very difficult to be on your side.


----------



## nocebo

Can you guys recommend a mousepad for the g502? If possibel i like a thin pad/math


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nocebo*
> 
> Can you guys recommend a mousepad for the g502? If possibel i like a thin pad/math


I use mine on QCK+ and no problem.

Though, hardmat makes the mouse weight less of a problem (G440, MM400) or try semi hard mouse pad like G-TF zowie.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nocebo*
> 
> Can you guys recommend a mousepad for the g502? If possibel i like a thin pad/math


What are you looking for in a pad?

If you care about money, buy a supermat for $8.

If you want aesthetics, just choose whatever pad looks best...

The difference in feel is so subjective and you'd literally have to buy 10+ mousepads and test them all to see which one you prefer.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justnvc*
> 
> The 2233rz has much more input lag than the XL2411Z, the XL2411Z with the blur reduction enabled has more input lag than with it disabled. The point is, you are giving input on how a mouse feels in regard to it's latency yet you'll happily play with increased monitor latency and not notice a difference. Thus, I think the point he's making is that you don't appear to be qualified to give an opinion, even though it's in everybody's right to do so. That's not to say you're incorrect in anything you say, I haven't read far back enough to question anything you've said, I don't know you. It's just that you make it very difficult to be on your side.


The difference is not significant. The difference between mice is very significant.

The reports of input lag on the 2233rz range from 0-15. The reports of input lag on the XL2411Z range from 3-11.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> What are you looking for in a pad?
> 
> If you care about money, buy a supermat for $8.
> 
> If you want aesthetics, just choose whatever pad looks best...
> 
> The difference in feel is so subjective and you'd literally have to buy 10+ mousepads and test them all to see which one you prefer.
> The difference is not significant. The difference between mice is very significant.


the pads I suggested are all black colors, no beauty points here :/

what's a supermat btw?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> the pads I suggested are all black colors, no beauty points here :/
> 
> what's a supermat btw?


https://www.google.com/search?q=supermat+mousepad

http://www.amazon.com/HandStands-Super-Mouse-Pad-Blue/dp/B0009JCUX2

You can get them at local stores in the US. Staples, Fry's Electronics, and probably others.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> What are you looking for in a pad?
> 
> If you care about money, buy a supermat for $8.
> 
> If you want aesthetics, just choose whatever pad looks best...
> 
> The difference in feel is so subjective and you'd literally have to buy 10+ mousepads and test them all to see which one you prefer.
> The difference is not significant. The difference between mice is very significant.
> 
> The reports of input lag on the 2233rz range from 0-15. The reports of input lag on the XL2411Z range from 3-11.


The problem is that it is not a higher accuracy in the MLT04, it just feels different (framerate, tracking code,...)

You prefer that feeling, but it is not "better" technically than the tracking/accuracy/whatever in the G502.

If you move the mouse the cursor will land at the destined position. That is accurate. It does not lag either. The feeling while moving just differs.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> The problem is that it is not a higher accuracy in the MLT04, it just feels different (framerate, tracking code,...)
> 
> You prefer that feeling, but it is not "better" technically than the tracking/accuracy/whatever in the G502.
> 
> If you move the mouse the cursor will land at the destined position. That is accurate. It does not lag either. The feeling while moving just differs.


The difference in game is pretty significant.

I know you don't want to call it inaccuracy, but that's what it results in. When I was testing it my shots would go from difficult, undependable, mostly misses with the G502, to crisp, consistent, instant headshots with the 3.0.

Whatever you say is causing the difference, definitely effects ingame aiming accuracy.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> When I was testing it my shots would go from difficult, undependable, mostly misses with the G502, to crisp, consistent, instant headshots with the 3.0.


and that's because of the sensor, rather than the other major differences between these mice?








but yea, you also say the sensor is more important for the feeling of the game, than a hard slick vs. a controlled soft mousepad.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thuNDa*
> 
> and that's because of the sensor, rather than the other major differences between these mice?


Other differences as in shape/weight?

Yes, it's the sensor. The difference is very obvious.


----------



## Falkentyne

Sorry, I don't buy your argument.

Draw some straight diagonal lines and some circles in paint, with both mice, and post the screenshots. Both mice should be giving you "boom, headshots" unless one mouse is giving you circles while the second is giving you ellipses--which is completely impossible. Otherwise you may either have a defective sample or some unwanted acceleration present. One user did get acceleration which was fixed on a new G502. Ino posted a TF2 video which showed absolutely ZERO acceleration and I tested TF2 also...the mouse goes EXACTLY to where you aim it regardless of deflection speeds, which equals boom: headshot.


----------



## TK421

How does this "supermat" compare to the QCK?

Glide, initial friction, friction while gliding/glide weight, feel (rough? smooth?), reliability (does it get worse over time?), and does the material "sink" as much if you apply pressure to it?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> How does this "supermat" compare to the QCK?
> 
> Glide, initial friction, friction while gliding/glide weight, feel (rough? smooth?), reliability (does it get worse over time?), and does the material "sink" as much if you apply pressure to it?


My experience with the qck+ was that it felt perfect initially. Over a few days it became much more slick, losing much of the friction/control. Someone suggested this is because of the spray they put on new pads that wore off.

Other people report that the qck pads gain more and more friction over their lives (years).

Black is also not an ideal color for a mousepad. Light, single colored pads are ideal for tracking.

The supermat is about the same feeling of the brand new qck (iirc). The amount of friction is perfect for me. It's got enough friction for good stopping power without hindering minute movements. It's got more friction/stopping power than the talent (which is a pretty low friction pad). It hasn't changed at all over 3+ years with multiple washes.

It's not especially rough or smooth. It's not thick enough to "sink" if you put pressure.

@Falkentyne
A desktop environment test would not be adequate. And it's not acceleration that's causing the problem. It's the same "smoothing" effect that's on all other new gaming mice.


----------



## Elsandre

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nocebo*
> 
> Can you guys recommend a mousepad for the g502? If possibel i like a thin pad/math


My SS Qck+ works fine for me.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> The difference in game is pretty significant.
> 
> I know you don't want to call it inaccuracy, but that's what it results in. When I was testing it my shots would go from difficult, undependable, mostly misses with the G502, to crisp, consistent, instant headshots with the 3.0.
> 
> Whatever you say is causing the difference, definitely effects ingame aiming accuracy.


Still, that's only because you are used to the MLT04. Play with the G502 for half a year and you would feel off with the 3.0

You are probably used to its negative accel too.


----------



## TK421

Why is black not optimal for mousepad? How does light color help mouse sensor to track better?


----------



## Elsandre

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Why is black not optimal for mousepad? How does light color help mouse sensor to track better?


Theoratically lighter shade pads will reflect more photons and dark will absorb more, but I think most sensors are calibrated tot darker surfaces.
Since almost all pads are black or dark coloured.


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Other differences as in shape/weight?


sensor position is an important factor too.
IME 3.0 has the sensor further infront than most other mice.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Black is also not an ideal color for a mousepad. Light, single colored pads are ideal for tracking.


Btw: Black is pretty much the ideal color for mice, especially with red LEDs. Easier to read image.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Btw: Black is pretty much the ideal color for mice, especially with red LEDs. Easier to read image.


how about the pmw3366 which doesn't have visible light?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> how about the pmw3366 which doesn't have visible light?


You could perhaps count that as red? Here's the colors the human eye can see:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Linear_visible_spectrum.svg/1000px-Linear_visible_spectrum.svg.png

That invisible light used by mice is infrared and is somewhere where the red side of the visible spectrum went to black.


----------



## pr1me

You can see a red dot under the g502 if the mice is angled at the right...angle (LOL my english is awesome







).


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Still, that's only because you are used to the MLT04. Play with the G502 for half a year and you would feel off with the 3.0
> 
> You are probably used to its negative accel too.


I don't agree with this. I played with the Intellimouse 1.1 for many many years, and when I switched to the Razer Copperhead it felt like I had an aimbot in my hand.
I've heard that the older 1.1's used a different sensor than the 3.0.

I also used an a4tech mouse for many years before I got a 3.0. And I noticed the improvement of the sensor then.

I tried the mx518 and a number of other mice, and noticed the decrease in precision with those mice. So I don't buy this argument that it's just because I'm used to it.

Also, the feeling is there when doing slower aiming movements as well, so it's not caused by being used to negative acceleration (which only comes into play with fast movements) either.

As far as the sensor placement that someone else mentioned, yes I've heard this be suggested as one of the reasons the 3.0 feels so good. However, I hold the 3.0 further up, whereas the shape of the G502 force me to hold it further back. So I'm not sure how much sensor placement effects the feel.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Btw: Black is pretty much the ideal color for *mice*, especially with red LEDs. Easier to read image.


Do you mean mousepads? There were a number of other people in other threads saying that their tests showed that mice tracked better on lighter, plain colored pads.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I don't agree with this. I played with the Intellimouse 1.1 for many many years, and when I switched to the Razer Copperhead it felt like I had an aimbot in my hand.
> I've heard that the older 1.1's used a different sensor than the 3.0.
> 
> I also used an a4tech mouse for many years before I got a 3.0. And I noticed the improvement of the sensor then.
> 
> I tried the mx518 and a number of other mice, and noticed the decrease in precision with those mice. So I don't buy this argument that it's just because I'm used to it.
> 
> Also, the feeling is there when doing slower aiming movements as well, so it's not caused by being used to negative acceleration (which only comes into play with fast movements) either.
> 
> As far as the sensor placement that someone else mentioned, yes I've heard this be suggested as one of the reasons the 3.0 feels so good. However, I hold the 3.0 further up, whereas the shape of the G502 force me to hold it further back. So I'm not sure how much sensor placement effects the feel.
> Do you mean mousepads? There were a number of other people in other threads saying that their tests showed that mice tracked better on lighter, plain colored pads.


link me to the tests


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> link me to the tests


I didn't bookmark it and I forgot which thread it was. I remember that popups was one of the people though.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I didn't bookmark it and I forgot which thread it was. I remember that popups was one of the people though.


I pretty much just quoted skylit. And the topic you mean concerned LOD and effect of color. It was assumed that tracking would be best on white paper because higher reflection, but it isn't.

If I were to guess why image reading is easier on black I would say that it's easier to see a spotlight in the dark than in bright daylight. Higher contrast.

For example try the G502 on a white sheet of paper with the standard profile. Won't track at all.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I pretty much just quoted skylit. And the topic you mean concerned LOD and effect of color. It was assumed that tracking would be best on white paper because higher reflection, but it isn't.
> 
> If I were to guess why image reading is easier on black I would say that it's easier to see a spotlight in the dark than in bright daylight. Higher contrast.
> 
> For example try the G502 on a white sheet of paper with the standard profile. Won't track at all.


Is it better to use standard profile or surface calibration if I'm using a QCK mat?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Is it better to use standard profile or surface calibration if I'm using a QCK mat?


Doesn't matter... The mouse is trash. Go import a MS 3.0 or 1.1a or quit using your computer.


----------



## justnvc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Is it better to use standard profile or surface calibration if I'm using a QCK mat?


I use standard for everything.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Doesn't matter... The mouse is trash. Go import a MS 3.0 or 1.1a or quit using your computer.


dafuq


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> dafuq












Sorry, was channeling Max.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, was channeling Max.


lol xD


----------



## kornedbeefy

I received this mouse on Friday. I'm still on the fence on whether I'm keeping it or not. After using it over the weekend playing BF4 I still favor my Roccat Kone Pure Optical. It fits my hand perfectly, has a better mouse wheel and never remapped keys on the fly (SEE below for more details). I'll give the G502 another week to see if the accuracy is truely better and if so I'll keep it because at the end of the day its the head count that matters to me most.









First, off has anyone experienced where the mapping of the buttons change for no reason? I was just surfing the web yesterday and all of a sudden when scrolling down the scroll function became the back button on the browser. Other keys also remapped. I had to restart my PC to fix it.

Second, width and height are fine but the length is to long for my stubby hand size and claw grip style. My thumb cannot reach the sniper button unless I hold the mouse in a awkward position. So if you have small hands and claw grip you might want to try it first.

Third, the mouse wheel is shakey/loose feeling when using it but that is due to Logitech including the side scroll function. Does anyone use this function when gaming?

I''m still on the fence concerning the sensor/accuracy, the main reason I bought it. I been trying to hold it so I could use the sniper button but I've come to the realization that in order to use this mouse comfortably I'll never use the sniper button.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kornedbeefy*
> 
> I received this mouse on Friday. I'm still on the fence on whether I'm keeping it or not. After using it over the weekend playing BF4 I still favor my Roccat Kone Pure Optical. It fits my hand perfectly, has a better mouse wheel and never remapped keys on the fly (SEE below for more details). I'll give the G502 another week to see if the accuracy is truely better and if so I'll keep it because at the end of the day its the head count that matters to me most.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First, off has anyone experienced where the mapping of the buttons change for no reason? I was just surfing the web yesterday and all of a sudden when scrolling down the scroll function became the back button on the browser. Other keys also remapped. I had to restart my PC to fix it.
> 
> Second, width and height are fine but the length is to long for my stubby hand size and claw grip style. My thumb cannot reach the sniper button unless I hold the mouse in a awkward position. So if you have small hands and claw grip you might want to try it first.
> 
> Third, the mouse wheel is shakey/loose feeling when using it but that is due to Logitech including the side scroll function. Does anyone use this function when gaming?
> 
> I''m still on the fence concerning the sensor/accuracy, the main reason I bought it. I been trying to hold it so I could use the sniper button but I've come to the realization that in order to use this mouse comfortably I'll never use the sniper button.


Tbh I never used button 4 or 5 (side) of my mouse or any of the G502 buttons aside from LMB, RMB and middle click (grenade).

I set the software to use "auto game detect", I map some function to the G-key (which I didn't use that much) in the BF4 profile and minimize program to background.

When switching to desktop/game usage, I don't have the profile issue that's apparent on yours (LGS 8.53.154)

Mouse wheel does feel loose on mine, but I think it's not a problem when you use it in game. I don't use the scroll/sidescroll for any function in BF4 though. What I really dislike about this scrollwheel is that it continues to scroll if you "flick" it, I have never used a mouse that has a wheel like this.

I palm the mouse, but thumb doesn't reach sniper button







(G6 button)


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> was channeling Max.


I'm somewhat torn on the issue.

The more people using these inaccurate mice, the greater advantage I have.

But I also hate to see manufacturers profit off of marketing terrible/useless (DPI) products to ignorant consumers.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I'm somewhat torn on the issue.
> 
> The more people using these inaccurate mice, the greater advantage I have.
> 
> But I also hate to see manufacturers profit off of marketing terrible/useless (DPI) products to ignorant consumers.


A better player will kick your ass no matter what.

You're the ignorant person who believes everyone should have the exact same needs as you do.


----------



## Necroblob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> A better player will kick your ass no matter what.
> 
> You're the ignorant person who believes everyone should have the exact same needs as you do.


You're forgetting that he's a high level competitive gamer so nobody kicks his ass.


----------



## The Toah

-moved-


----------



## Atavax

I prefer aim tests that simulate the aiming of a shooter, such as the aim training map in cs go. Very different experiance when you're always aiming in the center imo.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> A better player will kick your ass no matter what.
> 
> You're the ignorant person who believes everyone should have the exact same needs as you do.


Yup. I've said it several times before. You can call yourself great and preach the power of the MLT04, then go to a LAN and get bodied by a 14 year old with a Sensei.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> A better player will kick your ass no matter what.
> 
> You're the ignorant person who believes everyone should have the exact same needs as you do.


Basically this...I said this like 10 times already and he still doesn't seem to believe it


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Basically this...I said this like 10 times already and he still doesn't seem to believe it


Why does this matter? He wants the mouse that's best for himself. What's strange about that?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Why does this matter? He wants the mouse that's best for himself. What's strange about that?


Not strange. There's just a tactful way of going about things.


----------



## exyia

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I have, four screws under the mouse feet. And in the front it has snap ins, but you can push in gently with a screwdriver and the top shell comes right off.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> It looks like it's put together with snap clips and screws.


I know this is a late reply, but thanks for the answers. I've been giving a lot of thought and this really seems like the mouse I'm looking for (coming from a RAT7, nothing else out there fits similar with a good range of buttons)

the blue LED's REALLY bother me though...yes it seems like a small thing to nitpick, but when I spend thousands to put a build together to look a certain way.......yeah. didn't see anything interesting unveiled at Computex, so it seems like the G502 is for me

the LED's don't seem conventional, so I'm thinking worst comes to worst, I'll just cover them up for no lighting at all.

from the picture, it seems the bottom one is the logitech "G" logo LED, and the small one is the one for the DPI indicator?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Lmao. You guys are becoming a joke with the nonsense you're pulling out of your ass.

Most of you have no idea what you're talking about, and for some reason are getting extremely emotional about defending flawed mice and defending manufacturers for purposely engaging in misleading marketing and degrading sensor fidelity in trade for a useless high number they can flash around.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> A better player will kick your ass no matter what.
> 
> You're the ignorant person *who believes everyone should have the exact same needs as you do*.


I never said this. *Never*.

Secondly, your first statement is pure guesstimation/opinion. There are various levels of "a better player". Many many different factors go into making one person better than another.
For the sake of this argument we'll concentrate on the aiming factor alone.
So we have two people and one is a better aimer than the other.
Firstly, it depends how far apart their aiming ability is from each other. If it's fairly close you could *absolutely* turn the tides by giving one of them a poorer performing mouse.

To provide a convenient anecdote, just last night I was playing in a server with a former pro player and other high level 1.6 players, and I was the best person in the server.
Keep in mind that I am on permanent disability due to chronic fatigue that greatly effects my ability to do anything (counter-strike & professional gaming included). I didn't ask him what mouse he was using, and there's no telling whether it was solely the mice choice that made the difference between us. But the fact that I am able to outmatch the top players who are perfectly healthy, is very telling IMO, and I attribute this in great part to my mouse.

Now, I have said this before in this thread or other threads: *I am on these forums looking for a replacement for my 3.0. I have never ever said that this is the only mouse anyone should ever use.*

So kindly F*** off with these ridiculous straw men and baseless accusations and speculations that you're pulling out of your asses.


----------



## Nivity

Yes we are all very impressed by your cs 1.6 skills, enjoy them in life or something.

Not like you are a well known player or anything, or take the fact that you play a game that is long dead.
And even less cares about you and your skill in said game.

So funny when randoms trying to hype their skill and making it sound like they are the real deal.

You will still use your IE3.0 in 5 years, and you will still play the already dead cs 1.6 trying to make it sound like you are super gosu or some ****.

Enjoy it.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Firstly, it depends how far apart their aiming ability is from each other. If it's fairly close you could *absolutely* turn the tides by giving one of them a poorer performing mouse.


Firstly it depends on comfort of the mouse. If the shape/surface/whatever is bad, you'll hit nothing. Your so beloved 3.0 had for me (you understand? for f***ing me) one of the worst shapes I ever put my hand on. I can adapt to most mouse shapes in like 30 minutes, but with 3.0 I had trouble to feel comfortable and lift it even after 2 or 3 weeks of every day use. So, guess what. Your MLT04 means nothing. To be more clear. I would rather go with the worse sensor than with the poorer comfort even though I don't think any new sensor is really inferior to MLT04, but that's another story.
Quote:


> To provide a convenient anecdote, just last night I was playing in a server with a former pro player and other high level 1.6 players, and I was the best person in the server.
> Keep in mind that I am on permanent disability due to chronic fatigue that greatly effects my ability to do anything (counter-strike & professional gaming included). I didn't ask him what mouse he was using, and there's no telling whether it was solely the mice choice that made the difference between us. But the fact that I am able to outmatch the top players who are perfectly healthy, is very telling IMO, and I attribute this in great part to my mouse.


You had a good run? Momentum? You became pro too late? Maybe you're good enough finally? Why does it have to be the mouse? Seriously . . .


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exyia*
> 
> I know this is a late reply, but thanks for the answers. I've been giving a lot of thought and this really seems like the mouse I'm looking for (coming from a RAT7, nothing else out there fits similar with a good range of buttons)
> 
> the blue LED's REALLY bother me though...yes it seems like a small thing to nitpick, but when I spend thousands to put a build together to look a certain way.......yeah. didn't see anything interesting unveiled at Computex, so it seems like the G502 is for me
> 
> the LED's don't seem conventional, so I'm thinking worst comes to worst, I'll just cover them up for no lighting at all.
> 
> from the picture, it seems the bottom one is the logitech "G" logo LED, and the small one is the one for the DPI indicator?


You can just turn the LED off in the software.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Your so beloved 3.0 had for me (you understand? for f***ing me) one of the worst shapes I ever put my hand on.


Same for me. It's one of the main reasons I'm looking for a new mouse. Look at the picture of my mouse in my signature. I had to tape a bunch of scraps on it to be able to hold the mouse. However, it's worth it for me, considering the advantage I get from this sensor.
Quote:


> You had a good run? Momentum? You became pro too late? Maybe you're good enough finally? Why does it have to be the mouse? Seriously . . .


I've tested a lot of different mice over the years. The sensor on the 3.0 is significantly superior to almost every other gaming mouse out there. There is a clear difference that you can feel when testing various mice. And this isn't some fringe opinion that only I hold. This is common knowledge within the competitive gaming community.


----------



## Atavax

clearly my Roccat wired Pyra is the best mouse. Max DPI is only 1600, its light, only 90g, and it was shipped from Korea so it has Korean gaming juju. Only problem is its really really small and the smb doesn't work for some reason.


----------



## Atavax

button click response chart is updated, logitech g502 now on it, impressive http://utmalesoldiers.blogspot.com/2013/02/114.html


----------



## maxvons

So I decided to remove the sniper button all together. I was so frustrated with it, that I just used a normal knife to force it out. The shell took some minor dmg, but nothing that's gonna affect me. Will post pics soon.


----------



## Falkentyne

I don't know...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> button click response chart is updated, logitech g502 now on it, impressive http://utmalesoldiers.blogspot.com/2013/02/114.html


Uh...where's the chart?


----------



## DeMS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> I don't know...
> Uh...where's the chart?


Here

Keep in mind those are response times compared to a G300 mouse.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> I don't know...
> Uh...where's the chart?


this might be a weird concept but you can scroll down


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> I don't know...
> Uh...where's the chart?


about halfway down the page http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-96AfvZFodLI/U10Nv0V03yI/AAAAAAAABgc/FcvMXvNWdnE/s1600/response_test_overall_140427.png


----------



## thuNDa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I've tested a lot of different mice over the years. The sensor on the 3.0 is significantly superior to almost every other gaming mouse out there. There is a clear difference that you can feel when testing various mice. And this isn't some fringe opinion that only I hold. This is common knowledge within the competitive gaming community.


BS.


----------



## maxvons

This is how the G502 looks without the sniper button. I removed it using a simple IKEA knife, so it's a bit scuffed up. The feet are totally unharmed though.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> This is how the G502 looks without the sniper button. I removed it using a simple IKEA knife, so it's a bit scuffed up. The feet are totally unharmed though.


Haha Logitech get on it, G503


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Haha Logitech get on it, G503


They should make a version without the sniper button. I got so frutstrated one day...


----------



## Krucid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> This is how the G502 looks without the sniper button. I removed it using a simple IKEA knife, so it's a bit scuffed up. The feet are totally unharmed though.


Poor thing looks mutilated. You must have really hated that sniper button.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krucid*
> 
> Poor thing looks mutilated. You must have really hated that sniper button.


What can I say. I layed around for 2 hours thinking about that damn button, and when it was 2 AM in the morning and I couldn't sleep, I just got a knife from my drawer and pulled the damn thing out. Took about 5 minutes to get it out. The mouse is really solidly built.


----------



## 250179

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> What can I say. I layed around for 2 hours thinking about that damn button, and when it was 2 AM in the morning and I couldn't sleep, I just got a knife from my drawer and pulled the damn thing out. Took about 5 minutes to get it out. The mouse is really solidly built.


could not stand that stupid sniper button aswell which made me return it.

other than that the mouse was good


----------



## DivineDark

I just disabled it. Worked a treat.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> I just disabled it. Worked a treat.


I disabled it on day 1 when I got it. But I was really annoyed by the fact that 1/3 of my thumb was _constantly_ touching it.. It kinda made my thumb feel cramped, almost claustrophobic. I can't describe it really. But one day I just had to get rid of it.


----------



## InVicT2009

Too bad you didnt see the post where a guy opens the mouse unscrew just a screw and the button comes right off without any damage.
Oh and he didn't void the warranty, and left the mouse with all those scratches.

You could have easily ruined the mouse, if you broke 1 crucial circuit path that would be enough to have multiple buttons fail.

That and you did that on a 80€ mouse could be easily 80€ in the trashcan but whatever its your money.

Didnt find the post, but just look at this 




Basically almost every button has 1 screw attached to the "chassis"


----------



## Derp

All sniper buttons deserve to get knifed like that.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> Too bad you didnt see the post where a guy opens the mouse unscrew just a screw and the button comes right off without any damage.
> Oh and he didn't void the warranty, and left the mouse with all those scratches.
> 
> You could have easily ruined the mouse, if you broke 1 crucial circuit path that would be enough to have multiple buttons fail.
> 
> That and you did that on a 80€ mouse could be easily 80€ in the trashcan but whatever its your money.
> 
> Didnt find the post, but just look at this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically almost every button has 1 screw attached to the "chassis"


Well, damn. Does opening the mouse mean having to replace the feet though?

What is this wire btw, do you know?


----------



## James35

Got my g502 today. *Gotta say, I love the sensor!* I had no clue there was so much acceleration in my old mice. As I first start to use the g502, I can see my old habits of stopping short because I was so used to acceleration in my old mice. I can't believe how fast I'm getting used to it and how much my brain must have been screwed up using the old mice. I'm adapting to it so quickly. It feels pure.


----------



## InVicT2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> Well, damn. Does opening the mouse mean having to replace the feet though?
> 
> What is this wire btw, do you know?


If you use a thin blade and take the feet carefully you can stick them back on they just need to be on the perfect position and you need to use some force to make them perfectly flat.
As for the wire i cant say what it is, i still dont have the mouse but if everything is working you shouldnt worry.
i Would just advice you to close up that hole, because some dust can get inside the mouse.

If you are that hardcore of a "modder" i would use somekind of putty that hardens afterward ,just use some masking tape before you do that so the putty dosent go into the circuit itself.

Sand it of with 1000 grid water paper then rub some of that liquid car polisher and you wont have that big hole there.


----------



## Krucid

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> Well, damn. Does opening the mouse mean having to replace the feet though?
> 
> What is this wire btw, do you know?


Logitech sells the feet for the G502 for like 2-3 dollars on their website. Should have consulted us before you decided to play psycho doctor.


----------



## exyia

for all the talk about how this sensor/mouse has no acceleration, I was surprised that an "Acceleration" was on by default in the software

once I found it, I turned it off....but it felt kind of off for me compared to before...

should this be left on for some trickery into the design? or is it just me getting used to it?

I'm coming from a RAT7 after 3+ years....so yeah, I haven't been using a quality sensor for a long while.....maybe it's just me used to acceleration by now and just needing to adjust


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exyia*
> 
> for all the talk about how this sensor/mouse has no acceleration, I was surprised that an "Acceleration" was on by default in the software
> 
> once I found it, I turned it off....but it felt kind of off for me compared to before...
> 
> should this be left on for some trickery into the design? or is it just me getting used to it?
> 
> I'm coming from a RAT7 after 3+ years....so yeah, I haven't been using a quality sensor for a long while.....maybe it's just me used to acceleration by now and just needing to adjust


The sensor in the RAT7 is Philips Twin Eye and I thought that should be accurate without any acceleration, just has other issues depending on mouse pad and flips out when lifting the mouse.


----------



## DivineDark

The PTE doesn't have acceleration, nor does the G502 with it properly configured. The reason the cursor feels so different to you is that the PTE has a very odd tracking feel. I had a hard time describing it. It feels like the cursor is far away and removed from your mouse movement. I always felt that the cursor just had a mind of it's own from time to time. With modern optical mice, and even the ADNS9x00 lasers, they feel much more connected and controlled.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Krucid*
> 
> Logitech sells the feet for the G502 for like 2-3 dollars on their website. Should have consulted us before you decided to play psycho doctor.


Logitech don't sell the feet in Norway, and I won't pay for international shipping for a 3 dollar item


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> If you use a thin blade and take the feet carefully you can stick them back on they just need to be on the perfect position and you need to use some force to make them perfectly flat.
> As for the wire i cant say what it is, i still dont have the mouse but if everything is working you shouldnt worry.
> i Would just advice you to close up that hole, because some dust can get inside the mouse.
> 
> If you are that hardcore of a "modder" i would use somekind of putty that hardens afterward ,just use some masking tape before you do that so the putty dosent go into the circuit itself.
> 
> Sand it of with 1000 grid water paper then rub some of that liquid car polisher and you wont have that big hole there.


Thanks man. The mouse is working 100% as far as I'm concerned. I think the wire is something that connects the sniper button to something else, like it registers the click, but I'm not sure. There weren't really any circuit boards close to the hole where the sniper button was anyways, so I don't think I could've damaged that.

I'm not really a hardcore modder, so I think I will just tape it together with some black tape. But thanks for the tip!


----------



## TK421

Any idea of why the mouse feet edges catch so much dust?


----------



## InVicT2009

The feet have no angled edges, many mice have that problem.

Some feet come with the edges in a angle so they arent as rough to cloth pads, because when you make a movement most of the times the mouse sinks just a tiny bit into the pad but some people dont even notice it, and it makes the edges "fray" the cloth and it also makes some particles such as dust to come out of your pad into the skates.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> The feet have no angled edges, many mice have that problem.
> 
> Some feet come with the edges in a angle so they arent as rough to cloth pads, because when you make a movement most of the times the mouse sinks just a tiny bit into the pad but some people dont even notice it, and it makes the edges "fray" the cloth and it also makes some particles such as dust to come out of your pad into the skates.


Then wouldn't the G502 mouse feet not fray the pad? On mine it is rounded on the edges.

When using other mouse with angled cut feet (tiger/a4tech metal skate), the dust from my QCK doesn't even get attached to the feet edges.


----------



## Krucid

I think it's just poor adhesive they used on the feet. Dust and fibers work it's way around the edges and starts to break the adhesive down. My feet haven't came off yet but i can see them starting to lift a little on the edges. However, i don't use the G502 that much compared to my Avior as the weight is just to much for me.


----------



## Luxury4Play

So guys i have a question. I need to buy a new mousepad. What mousepad do you suggest for the Logitech G502? Ty in advance!


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luxury4Play*
> 
> So guys i have a question. I need to buy a new mousepad. What mousepad do you suggest for the Logitech G502? Ty in advance!


It's all preference, brother. Opticals tend to like cloth pads. My favorites are the Puretrak Talent (Slick and fast for a cloth pad. Still has great control), Roccat Taito (a good all arounder), Steelseries QCK+ or Heavy (a bit more friction, so more control, less speed. One of the most readily available cloth pads on the market, and a very good one at that.)

You can go hard pads, but they tend to do strange things to some optical mice. With the 3310 sensor the LOD goes way up, and with the Zowie 3090 the LOD goes way down to the point of not being able to read. For hard, my favorites are the Zowie Swift, Steelseries 9HD, Razer Scarab (or newest replacement), or any of the larger fUnc pads.


----------



## Luxury4Play

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> It's all preference, brother. Opticals tend to like cloth pads. My favorites are the Puretrak Talent (Slick and fast for a cloth pad. Still has great control), Roccat Taito (a good all arounder), Steelseries QCK+ or Heavy (a bit more friction, so more control, less speed. One of the most readily available cloth pads on the market, and a very good one at that.)
> 
> You can go hard pads, but they tend to do strange things to some optical mice. With the 3310 sensor the LOD goes way up, and with the Zowie 3090 the LOD goes way down to the point of not being able to read. For hard, my favorites are the Zowie Swift, Steelseries 9HD, Razer Scarab (or newest replacement), or any of the larger fUnc pads.


I was thinking about an extended pad that covers the keyboard also, something like the razer goliathus...but i dont like the green razer logo on it... i want it simple. black or smthn.

Something like this -> http://www.visionstudio.gr/prodinfo.asp?id=36818&cat=109


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luxury4Play*
> 
> I was thinking about an extended pad that covers the keyboard also, something like the razer goliathus...but i dont like the green razer logo on it... i want it simple. black or smthn.
> 
> Something like this -> http://www.visionstudio.gr/prodinfo.asp?id=36818&cat=109


That might work. I know a couple people here have used the Corsair pads. This one is pretty famous. I've never used it, personally, but it might suit your needs..

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826991001


----------



## Luxury4Play

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> That might work. I know a couple people here have used the Corsair pads. This one is pretty famous. I've never used it, personally, but it might suit your needs..
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826991001


You talk about the pad you posted right? The thing is i cant find that in Greece. So ill have to stick with Corsair's or Razer's XL pads...


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luxury4Play*
> 
> You talk about the pad you posted right? The thing is i cant find that in Greece. So ill have to stick with Corsair's or Razer's XL pads...


I'd rather go with the Corsair pad, as it's a consistent color. I don't really like patterns on my pads. The Talent has one, but it doesn't seem to cause me any grief.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> It's all preference, brother. Opticals tend to like cloth pads. My favorites are the Puretrak Talent (Slick and fast for a cloth pad. Still has great control), Roccat Taito (a good all arounder), Steelseries QCK+ or Heavy (a bit more friction, so more control, less speed. One of the most readily available cloth pads on the market, and a very good one at that.)
> 
> You can go hard pads, but they tend to do strange things to some optical mice. With the 3310 sensor the LOD goes way up, and with the Zowie 3090 the LOD goes way down to the point of not being able to read. For hard, my favorites are the Zowie Swift, Steelseries 9HD, Razer Scarab (or newest replacement), or any of the larger fUnc pads.


Goliathus or G-TF Speed are fast pads. Talent has more friction than those. Bought one in 2009 or so. It was the only mouse pad Xai showed tracking issues. Since then I never touched it ever again. So, I can't say, if it's only Xai or all non-(ir)led based optical mice that have trouble with it. For me it was a pretty slow pad, but everyone has different preferences/opinions.

I don't think 3366 has trouble with hard pads, if there's such a good ir optical sensor in it.


----------



## Luxury4Play

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> I'd rather go with the Corsair pad, as it's a consistent color. I don't really like patterns on my pads. The Talent has one, but it doesn't seem to cause me any grief.


Yeap im thinking buying that corsair too... ty for your help!


----------



## jdstock76

Who else doesn't like the scroll wheel on this?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdstock76*
> 
> Who else doesn't like the scroll wheel on this?


A lot of people... I loved it, but there were a lot that put it as the biggest draw back of the mouse aside from weight.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *James35*
> 
> Got my g502 today. *Gotta say, I love the sensor!* I had no clue there was so much acceleration in my old mice. As I first start to use the g502, I can see my old habits of stopping short because I was so used to acceleration in my old mice. I can't believe how fast I'm getting used to it and how much my brain must have been screwed up using the old mice. I'm adapting to it so quickly. It feels pure.


I don't tell people to avoid the 9500 and 9800 for no reason.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jdstock76*
> 
> Who else doesn't like the scroll wheel on this?


I quite like it.


----------



## James35

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exyia*
> 
> for all the talk about how this sensor/mouse has no acceleration, I was surprised that an "Acceleration" was on by default in the software
> 
> once I found it, I turned it off....but it felt kind of off for me compared to before...
> 
> should this be left on for some trickery into the design? or is it just me getting used to it?


What version do you have? Version 8.53 doesn't have any acceleration options.


----------



## Puck

After letting my friend do a few rounds of UT2k4 with my 502 he purchased one the next day to replace his DA2013 and loves it.


----------



## InVicT2009

And im here waiting, the "shipment" of these badboys got stuck in germany, so im waiting for a month already.

Maybe today i get lucky and they come, but most likely will be next monday :S


----------



## i4mt3hwin

Anyone have a problem where the mouse just randomly freaks out in a game? I've had two of these now where when I'm playing CSGO I'll be looking straight then after a little lift off the thing just freaks the hell out and either goes straight up towards the sky or straight down towards the ground and performs a half spin. It doesn't happen with my G400 and I only notice it in games. Kind of annoying, I tried reinstalling driver to no avail. Happens like twice over a 3-4 hour session.


----------



## nocebo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i4mt3hwin*
> 
> Anyone have a problem where the mouse just randomly freaks out in a game? I've had two of these now where when I'm playing CSGO I'll be looking straight then after a little lift off the thing just freaks the hell out and either goes straight up towards the sky or straight down towards the ground and performs a half spin. It doesn't happen with my G400 and I only notice it in games. Kind of annoying, I tried reinstalling driver to no avail. Happens like twice over a 3-4 hour session.


Yes i havet the same issue. 850 dpi, 1khz, sens 1 and rawinput


----------



## i4mt3hwin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nocebo*
> 
> Yes i havet the same issue. 850 dpi, 1khz, sens 1 and rawinput


I wonder if its raw input that's causing it? I have a friend with one who doesn't have the problem and he doesn't have raw input on. And I don't experience the issue in any other games aside from CSGO. I play at 600, 1K 1 sens and rawinput on as well.

I'll test it out tonight, because other then that its a pretty good mouse (wish the sniper button was gone but w/e).


----------



## nocebo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i4mt3hwin*
> 
> I'll test it out tonight, because other then that its a pretty good mouse (wish the sniper button was gone but w/e).


Its a really goood mouse i agree. Didnt havet this problem with deathadder be when using similar settings. I wonder IF the max speed is really that great.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i4mt3hwin*
> 
> Anyone have a problem where the mouse just randomly freaks out in a game? I've had two of these now where when I'm playing CSGO I'll be looking straight then after a little lift off the thing just freaks the hell out and either goes straight up towards the sky or straight down towards the ground and performs a half spin. It doesn't happen with my G400 and I only notice it in games. Kind of annoying, I tried reinstalling driver to no avail. Happens like twice over a 3-4 hour session.


Happened like twice to me over a 2-3 week period when I used it. Never figured out what caused it. In CSGO as well.


----------



## nocebo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> Happened like twice to me over a 2-3 week period when I used it. Never figured out what caused it. In CSGO as well.


Whats your settings? Dpi, Hz, rawinput and sens


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i4mt3hwin*
> 
> Anyone have a problem where the mouse just randomly freaks out in a game? I've had two of these now where when I'm playing CSGO I'll be looking straight then after a little lift off the thing just freaks the hell out and either goes straight up towards the sky or straight down towards the ground and performs a half spin. It doesn't happen with my G400 and I only notice it in games. Kind of annoying, I tried reinstalling driver to no avail. Happens like twice over a 3-4 hour session.


Negative... Been rock solid, performance wise.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nocebo*
> 
> Whats your settings? Dpi, Hz, rawinput and sens


400 DPI, 1000 hz, rawinput on, 2.0 sens


----------



## nocebo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Negative... Been rock solid, performance wise.


What settings do you use? im thinking that its maybe the low dpi guys that gets this malfunction thing


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nocebo*
> 
> What settings do you use? im thinking that its maybe the low dpi guys that gets this malfunction thing


800DPI 1000hz. No software installed. Pretty standard stuff.


----------



## pruik6

Mine not work so well on cloth mousepad, the mousefeet feels to much drag. Need to weed till takasta has mousefeet from the g502in his store








How work your mouse on cloth for you?


----------



## DivineDark

I use it on a Puretrak Talent. Works fine. The feet dragged a bit when brand new, but got smoother as I used the mouse. Of course... That all stopped when they fell off.


----------



## i4mt3hwin

Well all three people that had issues also had raw input on. Going to test tonight to see if it stops with it off. I realize now that I actually only noticed it in CSGO which AFAIK the only game that allows raw input like that, at least that I play.

I'll report back if anyone in the future has the problem they can find a solution. Plus I guess I'll submit bug reports to both Logitech and Valve.


----------



## Zt1tan

Just ordered one today, hope it fits my hand well... For my situation that's more important than the tracking being uber!

Although of course, I want both


----------



## trUte

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i4mt3hwin*
> 
> Anyone have a problem where the mouse just randomly freaks out in a game? I've had two of these now where when I'm playing CSGO I'll be looking straight then after a little lift off the thing just freaks the hell out and either goes straight up towards the sky or straight down towards the ground and performs a half spin. It doesn't happen with my G400 and I only notice it in games. Kind of annoying, I tried reinstalling driver to no avail. Happens like twice over a 3-4 hour session.


Sounds like the same exact issue that I had with the four g502 mice that I tried. I only noticed the problem in CSGO, but that's the only game I play on a regular basis. I use raw-input (tried rinput.exe too) like the other people having issues, but I have a few friends who also use the g502 with raw-input and they have never encountered the problem. Logitech is apparently looking into the problem so hopefully we won't have to wait too much longer for a fix.


----------



## LocutusH

Whats up with the light off option? Why dont they fix that in the software already?

I can turn it off or on, but the third timed option still does nothing for me...


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> Whats up with the light off option? Why dont they fix that in the software already?
> 
> I can turn it off or on, but the third timed option still does nothing for me...


Light off timer works fine for me. Win7 x64.

What OS, and is your acct admin(if not try running the software as admin maybe?)


----------



## FreeElectron

Is this one still the top sensor in the market?


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Is this one still the top sensor in the market?


yes, its the best modern sensor.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Is this one still the top sensor in the market?


Depends on what you want in a sensor/mouse.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Is this one still the top sensor in the market?


Yes top sensor available right now, period. There is no contest.


----------



## the1onewolf

So what about the components?

I mean we all know Logitech likes to cut corners and skimp ALOT.
Remember the G9X scroll wheel?

:























So Omron switches look good but what about everything else?
Especially the scroll wheel =P


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *the1onewolf*
> 
> So what about the components?
> 
> I mean we all know Logitech likes to cut corners and skimp ALOT.
> Remember the G9X scroll wheel?
> 
> :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Omron switches look good but what about everything else?
> Especially the scroll wheel =P


I've never known them to cut corners. Even if they did, their warranty is by far the best in the business.


----------



## LocutusH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Light off timer works fine for me. Win7 x64.
> 
> What OS, and is your acct admin(if not try running the software as admin maybe?)


Same here, win 7 x64, and admin of course... i start to think its the localisation that breaks this feature...


----------



## ~kRon1k~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> I quite like it.


returning mine for a new one through warranty. the scroll wheel got stuck when I pressed it down and never came back up lol


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Yes top sensor available right now, period. There is no contest.


Sad to see you still being so emotional over hardware that you have no stake in or anything to do with.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Yes top sensor available right now, period. There is no contest.
> 
> 
> 
> Sad to see you still being so emotional over hardware that you have no stake in or anything to do with.
Click to expand...

Shouldn't your sensor suggestion be objectively worse for most people? It can't be used if you want more than 400 dpi and its perfect control speed is pretty crappy, low enough for a lot of people to get into that area and see negative acceleration or whatever happens exactly. So that disqualifies it for perhaps most people, it can't be called the top sensor for them, and the best sensor used in today's mice should end up being the one in the G502.

I don't see a hole in this argument.


----------



## StraightUp

what's the best kind of mousepad for this mouse?


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StraightUp*
> 
> what's the best kind of mousepad for this mouse?


Uniform dark color, pref black.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Sad to see you still being so emotional over hardware that you have no stake in or anything to do with.


Sad to see that you still think everyone on the face of the damn earth must use a sensor with:

1 CPI step too low for the vast majority of users especially MOBA and RTS

Far too low PCS for low sensitivity FPS players

It's sad that you somehow still refuse to accept that the 3366 is at LEAST the best OVERALL sensor available since the MLT04. Stop telling everyone to use mice that aren't even widely available anymore in the first place or at least stop telling people that they're delusional if they prefer newer sensors. That's called being a dick. No one cares about the MLT04 anymore. It isn't even in the damn picture in terms of sensor considerations anymore for the vast majority of normal users coming to this forum. The only people who haven't moved on are people who don't like change. Even r0ach is currently using the G502 for god sake.

I've used the old sensor and I vastly prefer the new ones. End of discussion. Stop forcing BS down people's throats. I'm only going to take a very firm stance every single time you quote me, so don't do it. You're wasting your time.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> The only people who haven't moved on are people who don't like change


And you had such a good run, then you ruined it.

I dont mind change, its just that none of the mice ive tried has been as comfortable as the IME 3.0 for me.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> And you had such a good run, then you ruined it.
> 
> I dont mind change, its just that none of the mice ive tried has been as comfortable as the IME 3.0 for me.


I mean change sensor wise. Some won't even give other sensors a serious shot at all or even try to live with them.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I mean change sensor wise. Some won't even give other sensors a serious shot at all or even try to live with them.


Ah. yeah well, ive used the IME 3.0 for quite a few years now, and when i tried the G400 when it just got released with no prediction, it was at least just as responsive as the ime 3.0 for me.

Shame about the shape killing it for me though


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Shouldn't your sensor suggestion be objectively worse for most people? It can't be used if you want more than 400 dpi and its perfect control speed is pretty crappy, low enough for a lot of people to get into that area and see negative acceleration or whatever happens exactly. So that disqualifies it for perhaps most people, it can't be called the top sensor for them, and the best sensor used in today's mice should end up being the one in the G502.
> 
> I don't see a hole in this argument.


Like I said in my response to the guy asking if the g502 mouse has "the best sensor", it really depends on what you want out of a mouse, and what you plan on doing with the mouse.

Few people NEED more than 400dpi. They see these 8000 & 12000 dpi mice and go "OMG I want that!!". But it's really useless.

The mouse is useable around 54cm/360 which is very very low. There is no way that "most people" would be using lower sens then that.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Sad to see that you still think everyone on the face of the damn earth must use a sensor with:
> 
> 1 CPI step too low for the vast majority of users especially MOBA and RTS
> 
> Far too low PCS for low sensitivity FPS players
> 
> It's sad that you somehow still refuse to accept that the 3366 is at LEAST the best OVERALL sensor available since the MLT04. Stop telling everyone to use mice that aren't even widely available anymore in the first place or at least stop telling people that they're delusional if they prefer newer sensors. That's called being a dick. No one cares about the MLT04 anymore. It isn't even in the damn picture in terms of sensor considerations anymore for the vast majority of normal users coming to this forum. The only people who haven't moved on are people who don't like change. Even r0ach is currently using the G502 for god sake.
> 
> I've used the old sensor and I vastly prefer the new ones. End of discussion. Stop forcing BS down people's throats. I'm only going to take a very firm stance every single time you quote me, so don't do it. You're wasting your time.


That statement in your signature is such a joke compared to the way you behave. You're not objective, you're emotional, irrational, your memory is horrible, you make logical fallacies almost every time you try to defend your position. We've been over this same discussion many times.

_"Sad to see that you still think everyone on the face of the damn earth must use a sensor with"_

For the 10th time, I have *never* said that. Ever.

You are the only person who has been emphatically stating that a particular mouse/sensor is "hands down" the #1 mouse/sensor for everyone.

_"It's sad that you somehow still refuse to accept that the 3366 is at LEAST the best OVERALL sensor available since the MLT04."_

No one has ever asked such a question, so I have never confirmed or denied that.

_"Stop telling everyone to use mice that aren't even widely available anymore in the first place or at least stop telling people that they're delusional if they prefer newer sensors."_

Could you please point out some examples of me doing this? I'm pretty sure there are none.

_"The only people who haven't moved on are people who don't like change."_

I've previously explained to you in depth just how ridiculous this statement is.

_"I've used the old sensor and I vastly prefer the new ones. End of discussion."_

Because your personal preference is applicable to all other mouse users?

_"Stop forcing BS down people's throats."_

As I see it, you're the only one doing this.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I mean change sensor wise. Some won't even give other sensors a serious shot at all or even try to live with them.


Name one example.

I've tried around 20 different mice, so you certainly can't be talking about me.


----------



## Amperial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trUte*
> 
> Sounds like the same exact issue that I had with the four g502 mice that I tried. I only noticed the problem in CSGO, but that's the only game I play on a regular basis. I use raw-input (tried rinput.exe too) like the other people having issues, but I have a few friends who also use the g502 with raw-input and they have never encountered the problem. Logitech is apparently looking into the problem so hopefully we won't have to wait too much longer for a fix.


Play around with the lift off settings on that thing. The 3310 has the same spinning issues due to the lift off calibration and as the 3366 is some kind of 3310 upgrade that has to be the reason.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Ah. yeah well, ive used the IME 3.0 for quite a few years now, and when i tried the G400 when it just got released with no prediction, it was at least just as responsive as the ime 3.0 for me.
> 
> Shame about the shape killing it for me though


Yep that's been my experience too at least with the sensor. The new ones are so close to as responsive and offer so many other advantages it makes no sense to continually recommend the old Microsoft ones, except for the shape lol the IE3.0 is ridiculously comfy. Only mouse I found that matched the comfort was a Rival.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Yep that's been my experience too at least with the sensor. The new ones are so close to as responsive and offer so many other advantages it makes no sense to continually recommend the old Microsoft ones, except for the shape lol the IE3.0 is ridiculously comfy. Only mouse I found that matched the comfort was a Rival.


friend of mine has a rival, and its.. horrific in my opinion it feels tiny for some reason

and here i am still considering an alcor cause its dirt cheap


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> friend of mine has a rival, and its.. horrific in my opinion it feels tiny for some reason
> 
> and here i am still considering an alcor cause its dirt cheap


I just hope the Alcor v2 actually is a thing.


----------



## trUte

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amperial*
> 
> Play around with the lift off settings on that thing. The 3310 has the same spinning issues due to the lift off calibration and as the 3366 is some kind of 3310 upgrade that has to be the reason.


There are no lift-off settings with the g502 that I could find (besides general surface calibration), and I never had any issues with my naos 7000 regarding LOD affecting performance. Also, Logitech claims that the 3366 is a brand new sensor that isn't just a reworking of previous models. I tried everything I could think of to fix the problem including cleaning the sensor carefully, multiple LGS settings, different mouse-pads, switching usb ports and windows/bios tweaks. A few people on the Logitech forums have also tried to resolve the problem with no luck. Unfortunately, waiting for Logitech to release a firmware update seems like our only option.


----------



## maxvons

How do people get like 6 m/s in enotus mouse test with this mouse??


----------



## maxvons

Anyone else got rattling sounds when shaking the mouse up and down?


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> Anyone else got rattling sounds when shaking the mouse up and down?


do you have the scroll wheel of the looser of the two settings?


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> do you have the scroll wheel of the looser of the two settings?


No, the firm one. Scroll wheel rattles in both modes, but there's also something else rattling.

The weird more clicky rattling sound comes in the firm scroll wheel mode, but dissapears in the loose one. Weird..


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Depends on what you want in a sensor/mouse.


What are the factors that i might want to consider in which the G502 sensor is not the best?
Please explain in detail.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> What are the factors that i might want to consider in which the G502 sensor is not the best?
> Please explain in detail.


He's just going to say "smoothing." Smoothing that is so minor compared with any other modern sensor that it doesn't even matter. I wouldn't question the MLT04 elitists on here...


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> What are the factors that i might want to consider in which the G502 sensor is not the best?
> Please explain in detail.


Firstly, the mouse has more problems than just the sensor. 




1. If you're just playing casual games, there might not even be any need to buy this expensive of a mouse. Simply purchase any mouse that fits your hand well. Exceptions arise when you have a personal preference for very low sensitivity (around 55-90cm/360), or if there are specific features in a mouse that you want.
2. If you're playing competitive games then this sensor (as with the vast majority of new mice) is out matched by older sensors, so you will be at a disadvantage to someone using a superior sensor.
3. RTS & FPS players have different needs. And it also varies from game to game. For example, there are RTS games that don't have sensitivity adjustments so an 800-1600 DPI mouse is a requirement for a lot of people. Another example is I've heard of people adjusting DPI on the fly to allow a higher sensitivity in some games that restrict mouse speed in various situations like being in a vehicle.

There is a phenomena with the majority of new mice that causes the mouse to feel inaccurate.

A senior engineer admitted in 



 that raising the DPI on mice reduces the tracking fidelity. Competitive gamers can feel this difference, and it is quite significant for us. Casual gamers, not so much. Some games are more poorly coded when it comes to mouse control, as well as other things like input lag.

I've been looking for a new mouse for 8+ years and this issue is the reason I've tested around 20 different mice and returned all of them.

This is a possible explanation for the cause of the feeling of inaccuracy: http://www.overclock.net/t/1482946/g502-pros-and-cons-for-logitech-to-fix-with-its-next-shell-for-this-sensor/150_50#post_22318712

High DPI is largely a marketing gimmick. Almost no one needs these crazy high (3k+) DPIs that manufacturers are putting out. Higher DPI = mouse cursor moves faster, in trade for losses in tracking fidelity.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> He's just going to say "smoothing." Smoothing that is so minor compared with any other modern sensor that it doesn't even matter. I wouldn't question the MLT04 elitists on here...


lmao!! So you purposely ignore my refutation of your consistently ridiculous and flat out false claims so that you may keep on making them over and over...

This is one of the strangest behaviors I've seen from anyone where the topic is unrelated to politics or religion...

Your behavior is so irrational...


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> lmao!! So you purposely ignore my refutation of your consistently ridiculous and flat out false claims so that you may keep on making them over and over...
> 
> This is one of the strangest behaviors I've seen from anyone where the topic is unrelated to politics or religion...
> 
> Your behavior is so irrational...


Dude I've used the WMO 1.1A I know exactly what you mean, as I've said before. It definitely doesn't affect my gameplay at all in a negative way, moving between 3090/3500 CPI, 3310, 3366. Sure, there's a difference, but 99% of people won't really care/notice/be affected by it. You can't even buy WMOs or IEs new anymore. That's why I don't understand you constantly trying to explain to people that they're either wrong or that they should actually consider buying 10 year old mice. I know I'm 100% correct in saying the 3366 is an OVERALL better sensor than the MLT04 in that it is much more versatile and has little enough additional processing that it really isn't going to be game-breaking. That's my point and that is complete truth. Telling people to get these age old Microsoft models is not going to work well since they are not easy to find anymore, even if they wanted to go with the absolutely minimum-possible-processing route.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Like I said in my response to the guy asking if the g502 mouse has "the best sensor", it really depends on what you want out of a mouse, and what you plan on doing with the mouse.
> 
> Few people NEED more than 400dpi. They see these 8000 & 12000 dpi mice and go "OMG I want that!!". But it's really useless.
> 
> The mouse is useable around 54cm/360 which is very very low. There is no way that "most people" would be using lower sens then that.


Yeah, this is definitely an issue about different people wanting something else from a mouse.

DPI, I was thinking about certain very popular games where you move a mouse pointer around like on the desktop. I wouldn't want 400 DPI for that, really feel 800 to 1000 DPI or so are required for me to be happy.

About the speed in FPS games, I started with the first Quake and later played a lot of Q3, always thought something like CS is lame, which I guess naturally makes me end up in a totally different environment and might skew what the needs of "most people" appear like to me, but I bet the same is true for you and your CS background.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> but 99% of people won't really care/notice/be affected by it.


We've been over this multiple times. Competitive gamers are not 1% of the "gaming" mice market.
Quote:


> I don't understand you constantly trying to explain to people that they're either wrong or that they should actually consider buying 10 year old mice.


What I'm doing is trying to inform consumers in order to bring an end to this terrible practice of manufacturers purposely degrading sensor performance in order to market useless numbers to ignorant gamers.

I see people like Takasta, yourself, and many others, recommending these expensive products to people, and almost nothing is said about the negatives. Acting like every new product that comes out is nothing but perfection, when the reality is that most of them are riddled with flaws.

People acting like $60 mouse pads are going to give you an advantage in competitive play.... This is really disgusting to see in a place where people come to for advice. It's like a wolf in sheep's clothing.
Quote:


> That's my point and that is complete truth.


No, that is not some ultimate truth. That is your opinion.

People have varying needs, and need to be informed about both the positives and negatives so they can weigh them against their personal needs and preferences.

Competitive FPS players will be at a disadvantage with the 3090, 3310, 3366, and many more. And like I mentioned to the other person, there are only a couple reasons for a casual gamer to consider an expensive mouse like this.

Quote:


> Telling people to get these age old Microsoft models is not going to work well since they are not easy to find anymore.


First of all, I don't think I've recommended the MLT04 to anyone. I've simply pointed out the problems with other newer mice.

Secondly, I think you underestimate their availability. I looked on google recently and found a new SS coated one for $30-40, which I linked in a previous post.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> No, that is not some ultimate truth. That is your opinion.
> 
> People have varying needs, and need to be informed about both the positives and negatives so they can weigh them against their personal needs and preferences.
> 
> Secondly, I think you underestimate their availability. I looked on google recently and found a new SS coated one for $30-40, which I linked in a previous post.


It is truth, I used the word "overall." For the vast majority of people, even people on these forums, most of which are not actually professional gamers, the 3366 is absolutely superior to the MLT04 in every single way except for smoothing. That's undeniable and I hold that as fact.

I do agree with giving extra perspectives, that's obviously fine and people have different needs.

I _seriously_ doubt most people will consider any of these Microsoft mice, because do you really think people are going to be able to find them in new condition and under warranty? I doubt it. With the reliability of this type of hardware, a warranty is a must for many.


----------



## Ice009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Sad to see you still being so emotional over hardware that you have no stake in or anything to do with.


I don't mean to be rude, but I wouldn't go anywhere near that Microsoft mouse for anything other than gaming and that is only if I used 400 DPI. I don't disagree with what you've been saying, I'd say it may very well be more responsive like you've said, but I don't think it's a good option for most people as 400 DPI is just too low for all around use IMO. You've also got to overclock the USB ports and the PCS is also too low. I think it's got too many drawbacks to recommend to most new people like me that come in here asking for recommendations.

There is no freaking way I could use 400 DPI on the desktop, so all these guys recommending the 3310 and 3366 mice to new posters that come in here asking for recommendations, I think they are doing the right thing. They're the best all around mice on the market right now IMO.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Secondly, I think you underestimate their availability. I looked on google recently and found a new SS coated one for $30-40, which I linked in a previous post.


What's the deal with these Steelseries branded ones? Do they have any warranty? Why do they have Steelseries branding? I saw some in Takasta's online store last month as I was interested in buying one as I liked the shape of the old IE 1.0 (I think it was a 1.0) that I used to have years ago (I assume the shape of the IE 3.0 is similar?), but when I saw that the IE 3.0 only had 400 DPI and that you had to overclock the USB ports I was put off by it completely and went with one of these newer mice.


----------



## TK421

3366 have smoothing?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> 3366 have smoothing?


The feeling of "smoothing", yes.

The actual cause might not be 100% established.

Also, it's a bit lower than in other mice like the 3090 and 3310.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ice009*
> 
> I don't mean to be rude, but I wouldn't go anywhere near that Microsoft mouse for anything other than gaming and that is only if I used 400 DPI. I don't disagree with what you've been saying, I'd say it may very well be more responsive like you've said, but I don't think it's a good option for most people as 400 DPI is just too low for all around use IMO. You've also got to overclock the USB ports and the PCS is also too low. I think it's got too many drawbacks to recommend to most new people like me that come in here asking for recommendations.
> 
> There is no freaking way I could use 400 DPI on the desktop, so all these guys recommending the 3310 and 3366 mice to new posters that come in here asking for recommendations, I think they are doing the right thing. They're the best all around mice on the market right now IMO.


That is all fine. Some of those reasons are why I'm looking for a replacement myself. I don't think I've ever recommended the IE 3.0 to someone on this forum. I've just pointed out that these newer mice have inferior performance in one of the most essential ways.

My goal is to make sure people know what they're buying, and the trade offs they're making by choosing one sensor/mouse over another.

Quote:


> What's the deal with these Steelseries branded ones? Do they have any warranty? Why do they have Steelseries branding? I saw some in Takasta's online store last month as I was interested in buying one as I liked the shape of the old IE 1.0 (I think it was a 1.0) that I used to have years ago (I assume the shape of the IE 3.0 is similar?), but when I saw that the IE 3.0 only had 400 DPI and that you had to overclock the USB ports I was put off by it completely and went with one of these newer mice.


Steelseries branded ones have a rubber coating instead of glossy. Not sure about the warranty.

Overclocking the USB is only a problem in windows 8. Luckily for me I found a motherboard (fatality z87 killer) that has a 500-1000hz mouse port.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> It is truth, I used the word "overall." For the vast majority of people, even people on these forums, most of which are not actually professional gamers, the 3366 is absolutely superior to the MLT04 in every single way except for smoothing. That's undeniable and I hold that as fact.


There are two main factors to a mouse that are essential for most people.

1. Sensor performance.
2. Shape/grip.

The G502 has problems in both these areas.

"Sensor is superior in every single way"? How many ways can a sensor be superior?

1. Accuracy/fidelity
2. DPI adjustability
3. Malfunction speed
4. ?

So if we inform people that they are sacrificing #1 in trade for #2 and #3, then let them make their own decision about what is most important to them, this would be ideal no?


----------



## Ice009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> That is all fine. Some of those reasons are why I'm looking for a replacement myself. I don't think I've ever recommended the IE 3.0 to someone on this forum. I've just pointed out that these newer mice have inferior performance in one of the most essential ways.
> 
> My goal is to make sure people know what they're buying, and the trade offs they're making by choosing one sensor/mouse over another.
> Steelseries branded ones have a rubber coating instead of glossy. Not sure about the warranty.
> 
> Overclocking the USB is only a problem in windows 8. Luckily for me I found a motherboard (fatality z87 killer) that has a 500-1000hz mouse port.


Thanks for not taking what I said the wrong way. I run both Windows 7 and 8, so are you saying that you can't overclock the USB ports in Windows 8 even if you wanted to? Does anyone have a link on how to do it in Windows 7? Is it easy? I think someone posted me a link a month or two ago, but I didn't really read it as I had decided against getting one of the IE 3.0s. I'm mainly interested in it for the combination of shape and decent sensor, but those other drawbacks that I mentioned (just to clarify, drawbacks for me personally, they might not be for others) are stopping me. If it had a different shape that I didn't think would suit me, I wouldn't be interested in it. It's the combination of both that has me intrigued. I guess you could always up the pointer speed slider to use it on the desktop?

I think you've mentioned before that the shape isn't one of the things you like about it, so that would be different to most other people that still use the IE 3.0, wouldn't it?

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> There are two main factors to a mouse that are essential for most people.
> 
> 1. Sensor performance.
> 2. Shape/grip.
> 
> The G502 has problems in both these areas.
> 
> "Sensor is superior in every single way"? How many ways can a sensor be superior?
> 
> 1. Accuracy/fidelity
> 2. DPI adjustability
> 3. Malfunction speed
> 4. ?
> 
> So if we inform people that they are sacrificing #1 in trade for #2 and #3, then let them make their own decision about what is most important to them, this would be ideal no?


For me personally, I'm not sure what I prefer as number 1 between sensor performance and shape/grip. I'm going to say sensor performance as number 1, but the shape has to be decent. Now that I've used the G502 for a few weeks, I think I like the shape better than my old G5, but I don't think that I really love the shape, so I'm not sure if I might sell it later on if a mouse comes out that is just as good sensor wise but with a shape that I might like better.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ice009*
> 
> I run both Windows 7 and 8, so are you saying that you can't overclock the USB ports in Windows 8 even if you wanted to? Does anyone have a link on how to do it in Windows 7? Is it easy?


The program to overclock it on windows 7 hasn't been updated (or replaced) to work on windows 8. It's pretty easy to do for win7: https://www.google.com/search?q=hidusbf+windows+7+x64

Quote:


> I guess you could always up the pointer speed slider to use it on the desktop?


You could, but anything above the middle (6/11 notches) degrades accuracy: http://mousespeed.net/sc2-mouse-optimization

Quote:


> I think you've mentioned before that the shape isn't one of the things you like about it, so that would be different to most other people that still use the IE 3.0, wouldn't it?


Some people like it, some don't.

I think the main reason Steelseries made their rubber coated versions of the mice is because of this.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Competitive FPS players will be at a disadvantage with the 3090, 3310, 3366, and many more. And like I mentioned to the other person, there are only a couple reasons for a casual gamer to consider an expensive mouse like this.


There is no disadvantage when you get used to the feeling of newer sensors.
Also I can't imagine that you are fine with 1.7 m/s max tracking speed at 54 cm/360. I play at 60 cm/360 and I need at least 2.5 m/s to not skip constantly during normal gameplay.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> There is no disadvantage when you get used to the feeling of newer sensors.
> Also I can't imagine that you are fine with 1.7 m/s max tracking speed at 54 cm/360. I play at 60 cm/360 and I need at least 2.5 m/s to not skip constantly during normal gameplay.


It won't skip after 1.7 m/s. It starts to have issues with tracking and will have some sort of negative acceleration at that point. I don't remember at what point it will start skipping, but it can probably get pretty close to those 2.5 m/s you mention.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> It won't skip after 1.7 m/s. It starts to have issues with tracking and will have some sort of negative acceleration at that point. I don't remember at what point it will start skipping, but it can probably get pretty close to those 2.5 m/s you mention.


Sujoy's old mouse score says 1.55 m/s of perfect tracking and from there you get negative accel until it completely malfunctions around 2.1 m/s. Unfortunately this isn't enough for me.


----------



## Axaion

id say its closer to 1.8 m/s as no one is insane enough to actually run it at 125hz


----------



## Vorsplummi

So what would be the best way to test mouse accuracy? I don't like it when people claim other sensors better because "it feels better".

Maybe some kind of robotic arm doing perfect circles and adding sensor in the end of the arm to see if it can produce a perfect circle? High speed cameras and robotic arms to capture picture walk or differences on input delays on screen?


----------



## Amperial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trUte*
> 
> There are no lift-off settings with the g502 that I could find (besides general surface calibration), and I never had any issues with my naos 7000 regarding LOD affecting performance. Also, Logitech claims that the 3366 is a brand new sensor that isn't just a reworking of previous models. I tried everything I could think of to fix the problem including cleaning the sensor carefully, multiple LGS settings, different mouse-pads, switching usb ports and windows/bios tweaks. A few people on the Logitech forums have also tried to resolve the problem with no luck. Unfortunately, waiting for Logitech to release a firmware update seems like our only option.


Oh, i thought you can.

However don't take their words. Asus also claims they've developed a true 8 bit TN panel themselves (or something along those lines) which was not the full truth aswell.
But one thing for sure - the spinning issue is also present in 3310 mice.

The Naos or the Avior have drivers that can setup lift off distance manually, so that might be a strong hint. Not to mention they increased the 3310 to 7000 dpi while maintaining a really good performance at that level.


----------



## InVicT2009

For you and for 90% of any players, everyone is using btw 720 and 1280 dpis in go with sense 1.0 (i multiplied the dpis with the cs sense).

I use 800 dpi and 1.0 , i have a fairly large pad (zowie gtf control), and i use all the pad and lift the mouse pretty often.

It think max is just used to the HEAVY negative accelaration and that is forcing him to believe that the ms 3.0 is much more precise.

Another thing to mencion is that the sensor in the g502, is overall better.

First malfunction speed is way high for anyone to notice, second dpis steps , third nothing regarding acceleration , in all those points the MTL04 fails and that my friends isnt subjective.

Now max "thinks" or "feels" like the "MTL04" is a superior sensor, well he is comparing a sensor that has negative acceleration and he has 8 years of playing on it, to a sensor with 0 accel that he tested a couple of weeks.

Many forum members here were pro players (or close to that) some time ago, and non of them, thought that there was a single mouse sensor that would be more precise than this one so while the is max opinion based on the time he got with the mouse and considering all the time he had with the ms 3.0 my conclusion is very simple.

If max is here to find a replacement to the MLT04, is in the wrong place actually any place is wrong , because im 99% sure there isnt going to be any modern sensor close to the feel of the MLT04.

I dont discard, the possibility that the MLT04 in perfect control speed "can possibly be" more precise than the g502, i just dont think that outweights the cons that come with the same sensor in comparison with the pros vs cons of the g502 sensor.

And on a side note max, your mouse looks like crap, sorry but it does, if i was has concerned with the sensor are you are and didnt like the shape, i would just buy a mouse with the shape that i love, keep the mouse clicks and scroll pcb, and rewire everything to the mlt04 sensor (witch is not that hard ).

You could have the best (for you) from both worlds and not have a crap looking mouse and the ms 3.0 scroll is pretty crappy aswell(i had one).


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> id say its closer to 1.8 m/s as no one is insane enough to actually run it at 125hz


Those numbers are with the polling at 1000hz.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Those numbers are with the polling at 1000hz.


Yeah, thus the comment that no one is insane enough to run it at 125hz


----------



## TK421

Anyone using game detect mode experience a random failure to run LUA script?

I bind a rapid attack on DOTA2 but it sometimes doesn't work, sometimes you have to press the button multiple times to be able to activate the script.

LGS 8.53.154

script:
EnablePrimaryMouseButtonEvents(true);
function OnEvent(event, arg) --rapid_2
if IsMouseButtonPressed(4) then
repeat
PressKey("M")
Sleep(36)
ReleaseKey("M")
Sleep(36)
until not IsMouseButtonPressed(4)
end
end


----------



## DeMS

I used to hit malfunction speed with the Zowie mice (at around 3.2-3.5m/s) while playing in a "relaxed" way, so in what way would the MLT04 be a better sensor for me without having to change everything from the way I aim?









The 1.1 and a 3.0 I still have are stuck inside a drawer over here, but I end up playing with an Abyssus on a hard mouse pad - one of the few mice and pad combos I can't make skip and has enough of a raw tracking to feel comfortable with it.

Still thinking whether to bite the bullet and get a G502 or not, the weight is pushing me back.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> this might be a weird concept but you can scroll down


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Yeah, thus the comment that no one is insane enough to run it at 125hz


Win 8 users are insane then :'(


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeMS*
> 
> I used to hit malfunction speed with the Zowie mice (at around 3.2-3.5m/s) while playing in a "relaxed" way, so in what way would the MLT04 be a better sensor for me without having to change everything from the way I aim?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The 1.1 and a 3.0 I still have are stuck inside a drawer over here, but I end up playing with an Abyssus on a hard mouse pad - one of the few mice and pad combos I can't make skip and has enough of a raw tracking to feel comfortable with it.
> 
> Still thinking whether to bite the bullet and get a G502 or not, the weight is pushing me back.
> 
> Win 8 users are insane then :'(


I agree, windows 8 users are insane!


----------



## pr1me

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeMS*
> 
> Still thinking whether to bite the bullet and get a G502 or not, the weight is pushing me back.


I have a Kone pure optical (90g) and a g502 (121g), i didn't find any problems with the weight to the point where it affect my aim, it's slightly heavier but after holding it you just get used to it and it's basically like it was with the pure optical.

One thing to note, i didn't find any significant improvement with my aim with the g502 that would justify to pay 80 euro for another sensor over the 3090 from the pure optical.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> It won't skip after 1.7 m/s. It starts to have issues with tracking and will have some sort of negative acceleration at that point. I don't remember at what point it will start skipping, but it can probably get pretty close to those 2.5 m/s you mention.


I was referencing sujoy from memory, I think the highest peak was at 1.7 m/s, then some really heavy negative accel kicked in. PCS was 1.5 m/s iirc.

Anyway, even 2.5 m/s isn't enough for me at 60 cm/360, for my regular faster flicks I need more than 3 m/s (that's why I can't use the G100s either)

2.5 m/s is just a speed that I reach at almost every turn so the MLT04 is impossible for me to use.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I was referencing sujoy from memory, I think the highest peak was at 1.7 m/s, then some really heavy negative accel kicked in. PCS was 1.5 m/s iirc.
> 
> Anyway, even 2.5 m/s isn't enough for me at 60 cm/360, for my regular faster flicks I need more than 3 m/s (that's why I can't use the G100s either)
> 
> 2.5 m/s is just a speed that I reach at almost every turn so the MLT04 is impossible for me to use.


I have recently increased my sensitivity to 2 @ 400 DPI and even tho I love WMOs shape it's no way near viable. You don't even have to swipe it fast to get the heavy acceleration.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Firstly, the mouse has more problems than just the sensor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1. If you're just playing casual games, there might not even be any need to buy this expensive of a mouse. Simply purchase any mouse that fits your hand well. Exceptions arise when you have a personal preference for very low sensitivity (around 55-90cm/360), or if there are specific features in a mouse that you want.
> 2. If you're playing competitive games then this sensor (as with the vast majority of new mice) is out matched by older sensors, so you will be at a disadvantage to someone using a superior sensor.
> 3. RTS & FPS players have different needs. And it also varies from game to game. For example, there are RTS games that don't have sensitivity adjustments so an 800-1600 DPI mouse is a requirement for a lot of people. Another example is I've heard of people adjusting DPI on the fly to allow a higher sensitivity in some games that restrict mouse speed in various situations like being in a vehicle.
> 
> There is a phenomena with the majority of new mice that causes the mouse to feel inaccurate.
> 
> A senior engineer admitted in
> 
> 
> 
> that raising the DPI on mice reduces the tracking fidelity. Competitive gamers can feel this difference, and it is quite significant for us. Casual gamers, not so much. Some games are more poorly coded when it comes to mouse control, as well as other things like input lag.
> 
> I've been looking for a new mouse for 8+ years and this issue is the reason I've tested around 20 different mice and returned all of them.
> 
> This is a possible explanation for the cause of the feeling of inaccuracy: http://www.overclock.net/t/1482946/g502-pros-and-cons-for-logitech-to-fix-with-its-next-shell-for-this-sensor/150_50#post_22318712
> 
> High DPI is largely a marketing gimmick. Almost no one needs these crazy high (3k+) DPIs that manufacturers are putting out. Higher DPI = mouse cursor moves faster, in trade for losses in tracking fidelity.


Well I still don't know how to translate the "feel" that one in this video is talking about.
I kind of understand numbers though, I have also watched the video of Logitech's François Morier video several times before.
The way i understand it there is two things in a mouse the first is the sensor that reads the data and the second is the chip that understands and transfers the data.
I would not understand much about what is going on in there unless provided with manufacturer.
BUT
I do understand that every sensor has its capabilities.
Now for example
When IPS is not enough. certain pixel movement will not be perceived/skipped by the sensor. which will then result in inaccuracy that can be expressed as "negative acceleration"
I also do understand that sometimes the sensor has certain accuracy limitation that makes it unable to perceive smaller changes because of its "grid" making mouse manufacturers make mice where chip intelligence is used to estimate the mouse movement, and while the chip always does this at higher dpi means less raw data from the sensor means more calculation in the chip which result in a delay which is known as "Smoothing"

Now as far as i know reading this forums members "feels" and watching some reviews videos about this mouse they report that it is a good mouse.
1- I have come to know that they do not feel any smoothing with it.
2- The no-acceleration is at very good level.
3- And has the highest IPS.
for me those three points settles it for the best (of what i know of) mouse.

Now when there is a controversy. a better claim is the one that provides a stronger proof.
Right now there are sadly no strong proofs (that i know of) about a lot of the things that are expressed by mice community especially "smoothing" or the ability to humanly perceive it.

So i want more clarification and any form of a stronger proof than a "feel" about the issues where this mouse is not as best.

Thank you for this educational talk


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Well I still don't know how to translate the "feel" that one in this video is talking about.
> I kind of understand numbers though, I have also watched the video of Logitech's François Morier video several times before.
> The way i understand it there is two things in a mouse the first is the sensor that reads the data and the second is the chip that understands and transfers the data.
> I would not understand much about what is going on in there unless provided with manufacturer.
> BUT
> I do understand that every sensor has its capabilities.
> Now for example
> When IPS is not enough. certain pixel movement will not be perceived/skipped by the sensor. which will then result in inaccuracy that can be expressed as "negative acceleration"
> I also do understand that sometimes the sensor has certain accuracy limitation that makes it unable to perceive smaller changes because of its "grid" making mouse manufacturers make mice where chip intelligence is used to estimate the mouse movement, and while the chip always does this at higher dpi means less raw data from the sensor means more calculation in the chip which result in a delay which is known as "Smoothing"
> 
> Now as far as i know reading this forums members "feels" and watching some reviews videos about this mouse they report that it is a good mouse.
> 1- I have come to know that they do not feel any smoothing with it.
> 2- The no-acceleration is at very good level.
> 3- And has the highest IPS.
> for me those three points settles it for the best (of what i know of) mouse.
> 
> Now when there is a controversy. a better claim is the one that provides a stronger proof.
> Right now there are sadly no strong proofs (that i know of) about a lot of the things that are expressed by mice community especially "smoothing" or the ability to humanly perceive it.
> 
> So i want more clarification and any form of a stronger proof than a "feel" about the issues where this mouse is not as best.
> 
> Thank you for this educational talk


I'm with you... And no proof will be given. You just have to trust peoples feelings. I've said it many times before. I do feel some mice have something odd about their cursor movement, but I've never related that back to a particular sensor, just the implementation of that sensor in a specific mouse.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> I'm with you... And no proof will be given. You just have to trust peoples feelings. I've said it many times before. I do feel some mice have something odd about their cursor movement, but I've never related that back to a particular sensor, just the implementation of that sensor in a specific mouse.


This is my problem with people's feelings (How the Placebo Effect Works).
I have used a deathadder 2013 (3090) and i felt no smoothing at all maybe because i was playing on "native" 1800 sensitivity maybe not.
But what i am sure about is that i can perceive a difference between 120hps and 200fps (8.33 to 5ms delay) so i think that this smoothing this is just "feels" or maybe cause i had a decent rig i didn't feel this? i don't know..
bottom line is that i don't really believe this issue about smoothing and i also don't believe that pro 1337 CS gamers can be affected by it ofc until proven otherwise. Also same goes for mice shapes. as i never had an issue with any shape simply because i didn't know (before) that there are different types and shapes.


----------



## TK421

DA2013 is S3988, not 3090.


----------



## AlCZ

I bought in Saturday a G502 and today DeathAdder 2013. I used after overall seven year first Deathadder v.1.0 and it is for me a holy grail in mice... I have now a little medical problem with my forearm. First - i bought and tested G502. I have a strange feeling in my forearm... Health is on first place, i bought a Razer... Surprisingly - the shape of G502 is the same as in D.A... Little faux pas. I play in last time mainly a War Thunder (air battles) in arcade mode. I used a empty G502 (without any weight) and D.A.2013 with imported profile from my old D.A. v1.0. Resolution on G502 i change in this 4. steps: 1:250DPi, 2:1800DPi 3.12000DPi. G502 is little too heavy to head (thankfully metal -gyroscopic-whell). I tested both mices on "37 Samsung LCD TV and "22 1680x1050 LCD monitor. In highest resolution i can move with one small ride around big flat of TV. In WT: - arcade mod - i used mice in 1800DPi (both). But G502 have HW cheat - a sniping button. When i push it i have quickly a 250DPi. I can MUCH precise target and correct fire to "fire ring". I can't see any lack of sensor. Sensor in D.A. 2013 but mouse have a little problem - isn't here any indicator of resolution and you can give a few random kills. But targeting isn't too precise as in Proteus Core with Sniper mod. Both mice are tested in brand new Tesoro Aegis X4. In very old and many battles weathered Steelseries QCK mini can't G502 glide (after sensor tuning). With surface tuning glide better, but i thing a Aegis is most ideal for both. (Is new and smooth). Maybe i have new revision, but i can see here is any problem with sensor in G502. Maybe only initial series have problem with sensor ?


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AlCZ*
> 
> I bought in Saturday a G502 and today DeathAdder 2013. I used after overall seven year first Deathadder v.1.0 and it is for me a holy grail in mice... I have now a little medical problem with my forearm. First - i bought and tested G502. I have a strange feeling in my forearm... Health is on first place, i bought a Razer... Surprisingly - the shape of G502 is the same as in D.A... Little faux pas. I play in last time mainly a War Thunder (air battles) in arcade mode. I used a empty G502 (without any weight) and D.A.2013 with imported profile from my old D.A. v1.0. Resolution on G502 i change in this 4. steps: 1:250DPi, 2:1800DPi 3.12000DPi. G502 is little too heavy to head (thankfully metal -gyroscopic-whell). I tested both mices on "37 Samsung LCD TV and "22 1680x1050 LCD monitor. In highest resolution i can move with one small ride around big flat of TV. In WT: - arcade mod - i used mice in 1800DPi (both). But G502 have HW cheat - a sniping button. When i push it i have quickly a 250DPi. I can MUCH precise target and correct fire to "fire ring". I can't see any lack of sensor. Sensor in D.A. 2013 but mouse have a little problem - isn't here any indicator of resolution and you can give a few random kills. But targeting isn't too precise as in Proteus Core with Sniper mod. Both mice are tested in brand new Tesoro Aegis X4. In very old and many battles weathered Steelseries QCK mini can't G502 glide (after sensor tuning). With surface tuning glide better, but i thing a Aegis is most ideal for both. (Is new and smooth). Maybe i have new revision, but i can see here is any problem with sensor in G502. Maybe only initial series have problem with sensor ?


[wall of text] *crits* [you] 9001

[You] [Died]


----------



## DeMS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> This is my problem with people's feelings (How the Placebo Effect Works).
> I have used a deathadder 2013 (3090) and i felt no smoothing at all maybe because i was playing on "native" 1800 sensitivity maybe not.
> But what i am sure about is that i can perceive a difference between 120hps and 200fps (8.33 to 5ms delay) so i think that this smoothing this is just "feels" or maybe cause i had a decent rig i didn't feel this? i don't know..
> bottom line is that i don't really believe this issue about smoothing and i also don't believe that pro 1337 CS gamers can be affected by it ofc until proven otherwise. Also same goes for mice shapes. as i never had an issue with any shape simply because i didn't know (before) that there are different types and shapes.


Try doing a side-by-side comparison against a known responsive mouse after playing with the DA2013 for at least 30 mins.
You'll notice the difference immediately.

I tried playing with the DA2013 at 1800 CPI (same setting as the Abyssus, as in trying to save the mouse from an eternal position in my drawer) and the smoothing gave me a headache after a while, so it has nothing to do with placebo.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeMS*
> 
> Try doing a side-by-side comparison against a known responsive mouse after playing with the DA2013 for at least 30 mins.
> You'll notice the difference immediately.
> 
> I tried playing with the DA2013 at 1800 CPI (same setting as the Abyssus, as in trying to save the mouse from an eternal position in my drawer) and the smoothing gave me a headache after a while, so it has nothing to do with placebo.


So , Which is the most responsive then?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> There is no disadvantage when you get used to the feeling of newer sensors.
> Also I can't imagine that you are fine with 1.7 m/s max tracking speed at 54 cm/360. I play at 60 cm/360 and I need at least 2.5 m/s to not skip constantly during normal gameplay.


We discussed this before. There is no such thing as "getting used to a sensor" in my experience. When switching to a new mouse it is very obvious whether the sensor is superior or inferior to the previous one.

The example I gave last time was that I used an IE 1.1 and an a4tech mouse for many many years. When I tried the Razor copperhead and IE 3.0, they were clearly superior. There was no need to "get used to the sensors".

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Vorsplummi*
> 
> So what would be the best way to test mouse accuracy? I don't like it when people claim other sensors better because "it feels better".
> 
> Maybe some kind of robotic arm doing perfect circles and adding sensor in the end of the arm to see if it can produce a perfect circle? High speed cameras and robotic arms to capture picture walk or differences on input delays on screen?


I agree with you that I don't like going off of other people's opinions. Unfortunately, there is no such program that detects the problem we are talking about. Maybe some mouse manufacturer would be able to build such a thing. Fingers crossed...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> It think max is just used to the HEAVY negative accelaration and that is forcing him to believe that the ms 3.0 is much more precise.


No, because it's obvious with small, slow movements as well.

Quote:


> Many forum members here were pro players (or close to that) some time ago, and non of them, thought that there was a single mouse sensor that would be more precise than this one


Oh? I haven't seen any competitive players, much less pro players praising this mouse on this forum.

I don't know what game r0ach plays, but with how much he cares about everything I think it's safe to assume he's at least a competitive gamer. What he said was that the sensor is better than the 4k DPI rom of the 3090 sensors, but that it still has a "processed" feeling. Which is exactly what we're talking about here.

The only other people I've seen praising this mouse are Battlefield players, IE: casuals.
Quote:


> If max is here to find a replacement to the MLT04, is in the wrong place actually any place is wrong , because im 99% sure there isnt going to be any modern sensor close to the feel of the MLT04.


I'm sure some manufacturer will get around to it sooner or later if we all help counteract their disingenuous marketing.
Quote:


> And on a side note max, your mouse looks like crap, sorry but it does, if i was has concerned with the sensor are you are and didnt like the shape, i would just buy a mouse with the shape that i love, keep the mouse clicks and scroll pcb, and rewire everything to the mlt04 sensor (witch is not that hard ).


Too much work









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Now as far as i know reading this forums members "feels" and watching some reviews videos about this mouse they report that it is a good mouse.
> 1- I have come to know that they do not feel any smoothing with it.
> 2- The no-acceleration is at very good level.
> 3- And has the highest IPS.
> for me those three points settles it for the best (of what i know of) mouse.
> 
> Now when there is a controversy. a better claim is the one that provides a stronger proof.
> Right now there are sadly no strong proofs (that i know of) about a lot of the things that are expressed by mice community especially "smoothing" or the ability to humanly perceive it.
> 
> So i want more clarification and any form of a stronger proof than a "feel" about the issues where this mouse is not as best.
> 
> Thank you for this educational talk


There lies my problem with that #1 claim that people are making. The people who are making that claim are playing casual games like Battlefield and MOBA games like DOTA and LoL.

I've said this before:
It has in large part to do with the games they do and don't play. Different games (like FPS vs RTS) have different requirements. And different games even from the same genre (like all FPS) are coded differently. Some are better than others when it comes to mouse behavior, input lag, etc. So you will notice a good sensor much more in certain games.

The mouse behaves in RTS/MOBA games like it does in the desktop environment, and this mouse felt fine for me on the desktop.

And like I said in reply to someone else, unfortunately there is no program that exists that measures this kind of thing. So people will have to test it for themselves until a savvy individual or company not only identifies the cause, but additionally makes a program to measure it. I'm not even sure if such a thing is possible to do.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> There lies my problem with that #1 claim that people are making. The people who are making that claim are playing casual games like Battlefield and MOBA games like DOTA and LoL.
> 
> I've said this before:
> It has in large part to do with the games they do and don't play. Different games (like FPS vs RTS) have different requirements. And different games even from the same genre (like all FPS) are coded differently. Some are better than others when it comes to mouse behavior, input lag, etc. So you will notice a good sensor much more in certain games.
> 
> The mouse behaves in RTS/MOBA games like it does in the desktop environment, and this mouse felt fine for me on the desktop.
> 
> And like I said in reply to someone else, unfortunately there is no program that exists that measures this kind of thing. So people will have to test it for themselves until a savvy individual or company not only identifies the cause, but additionally makes a program to measure it. I'm not even sure if such a thing is possible to do.


Unless there is a proof. All of this is just claims!

Now just to be clear
What is it exactly that you think is not good about this mouse ?
1- Smoothing delay?
2- Inaccurate tracking?
Is this all or there are other issues?

I hope that we reach a better understanding of the problem and then try to come up with a methodology to test it rather than relying on people's feels.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Unless there is a proof. All of this is just claims!
> 
> Now just to be clear
> What is it exactly that you think is not good about this mouse ?
> 1- Smoothing delay?
> 2- Inaccurate tracking?
> Is this all or there are other issues?
> 
> I hope that we reach a better understanding of the problem and then try to come up with a methodology to test it rather than relying on people's feels.


That guy considers sensors immediately superior or inferior based on input latency and how processed the feel is, not taking into account some of the most important other factors in a sensor like PCS and having lots of native CPI steps. He literally does. not. care. When it comes to anything other than input lag or tracking feel, which is NOT the view of 99% of people.

Someone else tried to take video with a 1000 FPS camera in another thread, but having repeatable results with that is going to be challenging.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Unless there is a proof. All of this is just claims!
> 
> Now just to be clear
> What is it exactly that you think is not good about this mouse ?
> 1- Smoothing delay?
> 2- Inaccurate tracking?
> Is this all or there are other issues?
> 
> I hope that we reach a better understanding of the problem and then try to come up with a methodology to test it rather than relying on people's feels.


I explained it previously as a feeling that the cursor moves more than it should, to where it feels slippery. I think this is why many people have been referring to the feeling as "smoothing". It doesn't quite feel pixel precise, but rather it glosses over pixels.

Another comparison I made in another thread was to mouse button clicks. IE: I made a 



, and if you listen to the Avior's buttons being clicked, they feel/sound very crisp, whereas the right click on the rival is muddy. So if we think of button clicks as pixels, then the MLT04 sensor gives a very accurate/crisp feeling from pixel to pixel, while the "smoothing" on the 3090 & 3310 sensors causes it to feel muddy/imprecise, or kind of "smoothed out".

Another element that people have confirmed, but we can't test either, is "pixel walk". Or how the sensor behaves at low speeds on the desktop. The Zowie FK & AM mice had problems with this on 450dpi (I never tested 2300). This is something confirmed by many people yet is "just claims" with no "proof" as well because we have no way to prove it. There is no such program to test these things.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I explained it previously as a feeling that the cursor moves more than it should, to where it feels slippery. I think this is why many people have been referring to the feeling as "smoothing". It doesn't quite feel pixel precise, but rather it glosses over pixels.
> 
> Another comparison I made in another thread was to mouse button clicks. IE: I made a
> 
> 
> 
> , and if you listen to the Avior's buttons being clicked, they feel/sound very crisp, whereas the right click on the rival is muddy. So if we think of button clicks as pixels, then the MLT04 sensor gives a very accurate/crisp feeling from pixel to pixel, while the "smoothing" on the 3090 & 3310 sensors causes it to feel muddy/imprecise, or kind of "smoothed out".
> 
> Another element that people have confirmed, but we can't test either, is "pixel walk". Or how the sensor behaves at low speeds on the desktop. The Zowie FK & AM mice had problems with this on 450dpi (I never tested 2300). This is something confirmed by many people yet is "just claims" with no "proof" as well because we have no way to prove it. There is no such program to test these things.


FK seemed fine in terms of pixel walk at 2300. I don't see the point of 450 on that mouse anyway, it's just scaled from 2300 and adds additional input lag.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> That guy considers sensors immediately superior or inferior based on input latency and how processed the feel is, not taking into account some of the most important other factors in a sensor like PCS and having lots of native CPI steps. He literally does. not. care. When it comes to anything other than input lag or tracking feel, which is NOT the view of 99% of people.
> 
> Someone else tried to take video with a 1000 FPS camera in another thread, but having repeatable results with that is going to be challenging.


Well, I want to learn and seek a better option always
Right now i still think G502 is the best that i know of , but maybe i am wrong ... who knows








Also as far as i remember it was mentioned somewhere that this guy who used to complain about smoothing delay did not complain about smoothing delay with this mouse
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I explained it previously as a feeling that the cursor moves more than it should, to where it feels slippery. I think this is why many people have been referring to the feeling as "smoothing". It doesn't quite feel pixel precise, but rather it glosses over pixels.


Well
This is new to me.
As far as i know "Smoothing" is basically delay.
What you are talking about is something different i know no name of it.
And this can be understood that certain people got used to a certain sensor's behavior that other sensors did not feel well with them.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Another comparison I made in another thread was to mouse button clicks. IE: I made a
> 
> 
> 
> , and if you listen to the Avior's buttons being clicked, they feel/sound very crisp, whereas the right click on the rival is muddy. So if we think of button clicks as pixels, then the MLT04 sensor gives a very accurate/crisp feeling from pixel to pixel, while the "smoothing" on the 3090 & 3310 sensors causes it to feel muddy/imprecise, or kind of "smoothed out".


I do not understand how does the touch feel relates to mouse movement.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Another element that people have confirmed, but we can't test either, is "pixel walk". Or how the sensor behaves at low speeds on the desktop. The Zowie FK & AM mice had problems with this on 450dpi (I never tested 2300). This is something confirmed by many people yet is "just claims" with no "proof" as well because we have no way to prove it. There is no such program to test these things.


Can you provide more information on pixel walk issue and how to know if there is pixel walk or not?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Well, I want to learn and seek a better option always
> Right now i still think G502 is the best that i know of , but maybe i am wrong ... who knows
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also as far as i remember it was mentioned somewhere that this guy who used to complain about smoothing delay did not complain about smoothing delay with this mouse
> Well
> This is new to me.
> As far as i know "Smoothing" is basically delay.
> What you are talking about is something different i know no name of it.
> And this can be understood that certain people got used to a certain sensor's behavior that other sensors did not feel well with them.
> I do not understand how does the touch feel relates to mouse movement.
> Can you provide more information on pixel walk issue and how to know if there is pixel walk or not?


The G502 does indeed have the best OVERALL sensor, the 3366. Yes, r0ach said the G502's sensor was the most usable one in terms of input latency since the MLT04. Smoothing can mean an artificial feeling to the mouse movements as if there is an anti-jitter algorithm at work. See: DA 2013. If you've been playing games for a very long time it's likely you will feel a strange tracking with that mouse. Even I thought it just felt "off" in my brief experience with it.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> That guy considers sensors immediately superior or inferior based on input latency and how processed the feel is, not taking into account some of the most important other factors in a sensor like PCS and having lots of native CPI steps. He literally does. not. care. When it comes to anything other than input lag or tracking feel, which is NOT the view of 99% of people.


Haha, I'm still "that guy" huh?









Your statement isn't completely accurate. In fact, there are only minor differences between us. All the conflict seems mostly superfluous. We both agree that the MLT04 lacks the processed/smoothing effect that is present in other newer mice (including the 3366). We just have different preferences as to what we feel is most important.

I absolutely consider the other factors like malfunction speed and CPI. They just aren't a priority for me.

And you need to stop it with that silly "99%" statistic. As I've said a number of times before, competitive gamers do not make up 1% of the gaming mouse market.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Can you provide more information on pixel walk issue and how to know if there is pixel walk or not?


It's something Ino suggested, and I think it was mentioned in the Logitech Engineer video.

The mouse just basically felt really inaccurate on the desktop environment when doing intricate things like selecting text.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Haha, I'm still "that guy" huh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your statement isn't completely accurate. In fact, there are only minor differences between us. All the conflict seems mostly superfluous. We both agree that the MLT04 lacks the processed/smoothing effect that is present in other newer mice (including the 3366). We just have different preferences as to what we feel is most important.
> 
> I absolutely consider the other factors like malfunction speed and CPI. They just aren't a priority for me.
> 
> And you need to stop it with that silly "99%" statistic. As I've said a number of times before, competitive gamers do not make up 1% of the gaming mouse market.
> It's something Ino suggested, and I think it was mentioned in the Logitech Engineer video.
> 
> The mouse just basically felt really inaccurate on the desktop environment when doing intricate things like selecting text.


Fine. Most people then, not 99%. I think the majority of people on the forum aren't real CS professionals. And if your comment about Battlefield players being casuals was directed at me earlier, that's just the game I'm playing now. I come from the COD4 Promod scene, which as you probably know is an engine based on Quake 3, a very responsive and low input lag engine...before it was destroyed by later titles. Anyway I digress and none of that is news to you anyway.

I'm just saying that I disagree with
Quote:


> When switching to a new mouse it is very obvious whether the sensor is superior or inferior to the previous one


and that you can't really make that judgement extremely quickly without testing via Enotus and considering CPI steps. That's too blanket of a statement, and seemingly just calls into question only input lag and cursor accuracy/feel. That's all that comment was about. And when I say the 3366 is the OVERALL best sensor, I'm not talking anything about the ergonomics of the mouse, that's a whole different issue. I think for most people it's going to be the best sensor.

To add to the pixel walk comments, I think the easiest way to test is just to move the mouse as slow as possible on a low friction surface and if you can move the mouse VERY slowly yet it registers no counts, it's exhibiting issues of pixel walk. As far as I know that's what that is by definition.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Fine. Most people then, not 99%. I think the majority of people on the forum aren't real CS professionals. And if your comment about Battlefield players being casuals was directed at me earlier, that's just the game I'm playing now. I come from the COD4 Promod scene, which as you probably know is an engine based on Quake 3, a very responsive and low input lag engine...before it was destroyed by later titles. Anyway I digress and none of that is news to you anyway.
> 
> I'm just saying that I disagree with
> and that you can't really make that judgement extremely quickly without testing via Enotus and considering CPI steps. That's too blanket of a statement, and seemingly just calls into question only input lag and cursor accuracy/feel. That's all that comment was about. And when I say the 3366 is the OVERALL best sensor, I'm not talking anything about the ergonomics of the mouse, that's a whole different issue. I think for most people it's going to be the best sensor.
> 
> To add to the pixel walk comments, I think the easiest way to test is just to move the mouse as slow as possible on a low friction surface and if you can move the mouse VERY slowly yet it registers no counts, it's exhibiting issues of pixel walk. As far as I know that's what that is by definition.


That's deadzone. It's different than pixel walk.

Ino is a Battlefield player too.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> That's deadzone. It's different than pixel walk.
> 
> Ino is a Battlefield player too.


I know, I have him added on Battlelog.

I thought deadzone was a term the community here was mistaking for pixel walk? What in the world is pixel walk then? I watched the Logitech engineer's video and what I got out of it is that those terms are one and the same.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I know, I have him added on Battlelog.
> 
> I thought deadzone was a term the community here was mistaking for pixel walk? What in the world is pixel walk then? I watched the Logitech engineer's video and what I got out of it is that those terms are one and the same.


Uhh, when I described the feeling that the Zowie FK has on 450dpi on the desktop environment as being inaccurate when doing minute movements like selecting text, Ino suggested that the feeling was what the Logitech engineer referred to as pixel walk.

It's really the same feeling that you notice ingame, if I recall correctly (like the cursor moves more than it should). It's just not there with the 3310 and 3366 sensors on the desktop.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Uhh, when I described the feeling that the Zowie FK has on 450dpi on the desktop environment as being inaccurate when doing minute movements like selecting text, Ino suggested that the feeling was what the Logitech engineer referred to as pixel walk.
> 
> It's really the same feeling that you notice ingame, if I recall correctly (like the cursor moves more than it should). It's just not there with the 3310 and 3366 sensors on the desktop.


Oh moves MORE than it should, that clarifies. I don't know, never tried the 450 step. Probably should to confirm that, I have a '13 FK on hand but can't test at the moment.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> It's something Ino suggested, and I think it was mentioned in the Logitech Engineer video.
> 
> The mouse just basically felt really inaccurate on the desktop environment when doing intricate things like selecting text.


I don't recall watching it in the Logitech François Morier video.
Can you provide links to it?

Also now that i remembered
Sensor acceleration testing can be used as a proof to some sort to say that the mouse is accurate.
The mouse moves from A to B in the mouse pad making the mouse move from X to Y in the screen.
Then when moving the mouse from B to A in the mouse pad resulting in the mouse moving from Y to X2 in the screen.
The closer X2 is to X1 the more accurate is the mouse as it perceives the (almost) the same amount while moving back.

So unless other mice can perform better on the same test then this one is best one.
I am interested if you can do those tests with the mice you have.

Now let's think of a way to test the mouse delay issue.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I don't recall watching it in the Logitech François Morier video.
> Can you provide links to it?


It's on the whiteboard in the video. "Pixel walk - Low speed tracking", which is what I'm describing.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Also now that i remembered
> Sensor acceleration testing can be used as a proof to some sort to say that the mouse is accurate.
> The mouse moves from A to B in the mouse pad making the mouse move from X to Y in the screen.
> Then when moving the mouse from B to A in the mouse pad resulting in the mouse moving from Y to X2 in the screen.
> The closer X2 is to X1 the more accurate is the mouse as it perceives the (almost) the same amount while moving back.
> 
> So unless other mice can perform better on the same test then this one is best one.
> I am interested if you can do those tests with the mice you have.
> 
> Now let's think of a way to test the mouse delay issue.


Acceleration has nothing to do with the smoothing feeling that we're talking about.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> It's on the whiteboard in the video. "Pixel walk - Low speed tracking", which is what I'm describing.
> Acceleration has nothing to do with the smoothing feeling that we're talking about.


I will check the video later.

Acceleration testing can be used to test mouse accuracy.
Which is what you described smoothing to be.
While what others including me think that smoothing is delay due to calculations done in the mouse to estimate mouse movement on higher CPIs.

Now as for the first one. Acceleration tests can be used to also show mouse accuracy as i explained previously.
While the second one is the one i am seeking a method to test.


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> The example I gave last time was that I used an IE 1.1 and an a4tech mouse for many many years. When I tried the Razor copperhead and IE 3.0, they were clearly superior. There was no need to "get used to the sensors".


That's interesting you thought the IE 3.0 felt "clearly superior" to the IE 1.1 considering they use the same sensor.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> That's interesting you thought the IE 3.0 felt "clearly superior" to the IE 1.1 considering they use the same sensor.


Probably only the shape.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I will check the video later.
> 
> Acceleration testing can be used to test mouse accuracy.
> Which is what you described smoothing to be.
> While what others including me think that smoothing is delay due to calculations done in the mouse to estimate mouse movement on higher CPIs.
> 
> Now as for the first one. Acceleration tests can be used to also show mouse accuracy as i explained previously.
> While the second one is the one i am seeking a method to test.


That's not what smoothing is at all. Smoothing is over-aggressive anti-jitter algorithms that tend to also cause additional input latency. The mouse feels "fake" in interpreting your movements.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> That's deadzone. It's different than pixel walk.


He actually explains it around 12:14 in the video.
"When you move the mouse at very low speed, you reach a speed where the system is hesitating between motion and not motion..."
To the user it feels like a dead zone while it actually is a "starting speed".


----------



## Amperial

Can someone make a TL;DR please? lol

But i've looked through some stuff.. which made me facepalm quite alot.

If someone can play with a low malfunction speed mouse that offers flawless tracking (precision for example) than it's most likely the best sensor for that guy..
Someone like me can't deal with low malfunction speeds at (65/360).. and actually most -competitive- players. There are situations where you even malfunction with a higher sens than 65/360 during extremely fast turns or certain flick shots.

You guys go quite overbroad with this discussion..


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> That's deadzone. It's different than pixel walk.
> 
> Ino is a Battlefield player too.


Yes, I am casually playing BF4, however not every BF4 player is a casual. CS is not the pinnacle of skill.

Still what you complain about is a feel thing. Your sensor feels better to you compared to others, that's fine. However other sensors are not less accurate. You can do the tests that Francoise Morier described in the video with the G502 and it will pass them all. It is accurate. What you dislike about it is only the feeling. I don't have a problem with the MLT04 being superior for you, but that is not a universal truth.

Also I'm not sure anymore of the thing on the Zowies is pixel walk, because on all my current ones it works just fine (going pixel by pixel slowly)
Maybe it really is just processing lag that is felt by people who are more sensitive to the issue.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amperial*
> 
> Can someone make a TL;DR please? lol
> 
> But i've looked through some stuff.. which made me facepalm quite alot.
> 
> If someone can play with a low malfunction speed mouse that offers flawless tracking (precision for example) than it's most likely the best sensor for that guy..
> Someone like me can't deal with low malfunction speeds at (65/360).. and actually most -competitive- players. There are situations where you even malfunction with a higher sens than 65/360 during extremely fast turns or certain flick shots.
> 
> You guys go quite overbroad with this discussion..


Welcome to the mouse section at its best. lol.

The 3366 has the highest PCS of any mouse sensor and is the overall best sensor, but it's trapped in a shell that I would never consider using.

Next best thing to this is the Mionix mice, so that's why I use the Avior at 70/360.


----------



## Amperial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Welcome to the mouse section at its best. lol.
> 
> The 3366 has the highest PCS of any mouse sensor and is the overall best sensor, but it's trapped in a shell that I would never consider using.
> 
> Next best thing to this is the Mionix mice, so that's why I use the Avior at 70/360.


Well.. it's a good bet for most people, ye.

Inb4..


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amperial*
> 
> Well.. it's a good bet for most people, ye.
> 
> Inb4..


lmao. i know.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> That's interesting you thought the IE 3.0 felt "clearly superior" to the IE 1.1 considering they use the same sensor.


I'm told that the older 1.1s used a different sensor. I also struggled to grip the 1.1 due to it's coating.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amperial*
> 
> Can someone make a TL;DR please?


Pros:
1. 3366 has high malfunction speed.
2. 3366 has adjustable native DPI in steps of 50
3. 3366 has some other features like adjustable LOD.

Negatives:
1. It's heavy, the buttons are poorly placed causing accidental clicks, it's a bit too thin for palm grip.
2. 3366 has the same processed/smoothing feel as other new mice (just a little less so), and therefore does not match the sensor fidelity of the MLT04. So you will have to decide what is most important to you.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Still what you complain about is a feel thing. Your sensor feels better to you compared to others, that's fine. However other sensors are not less accurate. You can do the tests that Francoise Morier described in the video with the G502 and it will pass them all. It is accurate. What you dislike about it is only the feeling.


Repeating the same thing over and over in hopes that I forget my answer?









Skylit even said that the "smoothing" feel results in lack of precision.

It effects the sensor's performance/accuracy in game. Therefore you cannot claim it's simply a different feeling that you can just get used to.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Skylit even said that the "smoothing" feel results in lack of precision.
> 
> It effects the sensor's performance/accuracy in game. Therefore you cannot claim it's simply a different feeling that you can just get used to.


What he says is you get more precision (as in less jitter) with slower transfer rate vs fps, what we call smoothing.
Kinda like using a lower polling rate gives you straighter lines in paint.
This is done at the cost of responsiveness.

About the g502, considering the weight of the mouse, it's plausible the starting speed could be on the high side.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I'm told that the older 1.1s used a different sensor. I also struggled to grip the 1.1 due to it's coating.
> Pros:
> 1. 3366 has high malfunction speed.
> 2. 3366 has adjustable native DPI in steps of 50
> 3. 3366 has some other features like adjustable LOD.
> 
> Negatives:
> 1. It's heavy, the buttons are poorly placed causing accidental clicks, it's a bit too thin for palm grip.
> 2. 3366 has the same processed/smoothing feel as other new mice (just a little less so), and therefore does not match the sensor fidelity of the MLT04. So you will have to decide what is most important to you.
> Repeating the same thing over and over in hopes that I forget my answer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylit even said that the "smoothing" feel results in lack of precision.
> 
> It effects the sensor's performance/accuracy in game. Therefore you cannot claim it's simply a different feeling that you can just get used to.


You misunderstood skylit there, what he means is that the precision is higher with smoothing.
So contrary to what you said.


----------



## Amperial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I'm told that the older 1.1s used a different sensor. I also struggled to grip the 1.1 due to it's coating.
> Pros:
> 1. 3366 has high malfunction speed.
> 2. 3366 has adjustable native DPI in steps of 50
> 3. 3366 has some other features like adjustable LOD.
> 
> Negatives:
> 1. It's heavy, the buttons are poorly placed causing accidental clicks, it's a bit too thin for palm grip.
> 2. 3366 has the same processed/smoothing feel as other new mice (just a little less so), and therefore does not match the sensor fidelity of the MLT04. So you will have to decide what is most important to you.
> Repeating the same thing over and over in hopes that I forget my answer?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Skylit even said that the "smoothing" feel results in lack of precision.
> 
> It effects the sensor's performance/accuracy in game. Therefore you cannot claim it's simply a different feeling that you can just get used to.


Thanks.. however i meant the whole discussion.

You guys are always talking about "feelings" put straight up test results.. really.
Test mouse1 vs mouse2. Proof precision of mouse1 > mouse2 due to testresult1337.
> shut the other one down.

If the pixel skipping is somewhat linear (not random), you can - to an extent. Statement wise the - you "can't get used to" is wrong.

So all in all.. as a third party person i'd not believe anyone of you.

Let's throw jitter & random jitter inhere. Ripple is actually the right term. Afaik theres also random (unpredictable) Ripple.
Angle snapping actually removes that random Ripple to make it predictable (if i got it right).

So let's assume the MLT04 has more random Ripple than the G502 while the G502 is more predictable due to the small amount of smoothing (if there is any, hell idk).
What's more accurate? (assuming everything i said makes sense)

_Randomshout: Laser mice precision > all > MLT04 / G502 .
/flame_on

Just had to do it,
LOL.
_


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> You misunderstood skylit there, what he means is that the precision is higher with smoothing.
> So contrary to what you said.


So "slower updates" in order to smooth out the jitter you get at high DPI is what's causing the feeling right? This makes the mouse more precise at higher DPI because it removes jitter, but it also introduces the smoothing feeling we're talking about?


----------



## Amperial

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> So "slower updates" in order to smooth out the jitter you get at high DPI is what's causing the feeling right? This makes the mouse more precise at higher DPI because it removes jitter, but it also introduces the smoothing feeling we're talking about?


Basically.. if you TL;DR it.
Most importantly it's a way to remove random (unpredictable) jitter.. the slight "smoothing" is the tradeoff you have to pay.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

So Ino, since you don't want me calling it "inaccuracy", slower response time is the correct thing to call it?


----------



## DeMS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> So Ino, since you don't want me calling it "inaccuracy", slower response time is the correct thing to call it?


I would go with "Dynamic FPS".


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeMS*
> 
> I would go with "Dynamic FPS".


Dynamic FPS seems to suggest that it lowers the FPS on higher CPI settings? So that would also suggest that the mouse then raises the FPS on low or native DPI settings, and therefore should not have the "smoothing" effect at those settings, which isn't the case...


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> So Ino, since you don't want me calling it "inaccuracy", slower response time is the correct thing to call it?


how about 'more processed'?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> how about 'more processed'?


That's what I call it, but I've given up this ridiculous argument. I just accept that my mice are garbage.


----------



## Atavax

i guess an obvious question is if the 4,000 CPI 3090 had smoothing that had a legitimately negative effect and the 3310 and 3366 also has smoothing, but to a lesser degree, why should we not consider it bad, just to a lesser degree? Does it not work in the same way? Is there a negative effect that doesn't exist with the 3310 or 3366? Or is it just harder to perceive because its smaller and less people can perceive it now because its smaller?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i guess an obvious question is if the 4,000 CPI 3090 had smoothing that had a legitimately negative effect and the 3310 and 3366 also has smoothing, but to a lesser degree, why should we not consider it bad, just to a lesser degree? Does it not work in the same way is there a negative effect that doesn't exist with the 3310 or 3366? Or is it just harder to perceive because its smaller and less people can perceive it now because its smaller?


Because they're unusable and you should accept that... Literally, the mouse you are using is causing such a negative affect on your game play that you are actually hurting yourself by playing with it... You are actually getting worse at games as you play. Just accept it... MLT04 or bust.


----------



## Atavax

so what, the only thing we can criticize a sensor for is inconsistency?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> so what, the only thing we can criticize a sensor for is inconsistency?


Nah...

1.) Not being an MLT04
2.) Prediction
3.) High Lift off Distance
4.) Acceleration
5.) Random acceleration
6.) Jitter
7.) Low PCS
8.) Hyper sensitivity
9.) DPI steps
10.) Weird native DPI
11.) Polling rate
12.) Z-Axis bug
13.) High failure rate


----------



## treach

Man is nobody here rich or has connections with STM to make a damn MLT08







why does no company see the chances if the make a superior sensor.. the word would spread so damn fast...

I mean logitech tries with this mouse, but who needs 12000 dpi at cost of response and fidelity


----------



## Atavax

no, the market for a 800 dpi mouse is small...


----------



## Derp

I personally haven't even plugged in a G502 so I can't offer my opinion on the smoothing subject but even if I did and I never noticed any smoothing or tracking flaws, I don't like seeing people sarcastically attacking some "extremely sensitive" posters for their views and opinions on mice. The community should be respecting the results and opinions of people who have put their hands on both mice being discussed, especially those who find that mouse A is better than mouse B when it comes to any tracking flaw.

We already have far too many PC gamers buying garbage mice with awful sensors and being 100% happy with all of these flaws. Because of this group of gamers companies are free to keep releasing bad products because who cares if a small percent of the competitive consumers are unhappy, business is still good. This allows the mouse market to be controlled by a bunch of idiots which is what is causing this missing gap in the market for a mouse designed only for performance.

These companies are getting rich off of us, we shouldn't be making ANY excuses about the products that they're feeding to us. We need as many extremely picky/sensitive/ OCD people as we can get involved. If a sensor is released that can please Maximilian for an example in regards to smoothing, it will also be more than enough to please all of the casuals or less "ocd" people at the same time. This will prevent that missing gap in the market because everyone will have a mouse that they need as long as that amazing sensor is included in whatever shell and button combo a specific gamer prefers.

Pixart or whoever else decides to try to make a sensor needs to never take a step back or compromise anything when designing a new sensor. Use the MLT04 as a baseline (IMO the best tracking quality of all sensors that I have used) and proceed forward. If adding more CPI causes jitter/accel/input lag/low pcs then don't do it. Completely redesign a new sensor from the ground up that IS capable of doing those things instead of release bandaids such as smoothing to fix those side effect problems. The ultimate goal should be perfect 1:1 tracking to provide a situation where if you missed your mark it was because it was completely your fault, you're an imprecise human after all. I personally find it pathetic that in 2014 we are still discussing and searching for a mouse sensor to do just that.

*TL;DR: For everyone's sake, please be more respectful to those who can notice these tracking flaws no matter how trivial or non existent they may seem to you.*


----------



## Atavax

The problem is perception can be impacted by placebo. Just because Max feels a problem, it doesn't mean it exists. Conversely, just because you don't feel a problem, it doesn't mean it does not exists.

I think some people either work in the industry or know people in the industry and i can understand people taking offense when the work they do or know people that do in the last 15 years is called inferior. People care and take pride in their work including the engineers that built and designed modern mice.


----------



## DivineDark

I'm pretty sure I'm going to keep joking about this subject for the rest of my mouse nerd life... It has nothing to do with respect and everything to do with people blowing something non-existent or pretty much non-existent so far out of proportion that people that will never even EXPERIENCE "smoothing" are scared to try any mouse on the market because 10 people say it's a thing and it's game breaking...

It's ridiculous and will continue to be the butt of jokes and the subject of questions from these normal consumers that want to know how to "feel" if their mouse has teh smooth1ng...


----------



## Atavax

this isn't a bj, it isn't good or bad based only on what you feel. If your mouse is registered as moving a few ms later, the server registers it as happening a few ms later, its not the most uncommon thing in the world for something to be determined on a server by a few ms. You don't need to consciously feel smoothing for it to have a negative impact.


----------



## Berserker1

gaming mouse should be as responsive as possible, doesnt matter if 99% of players dont notice.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Welcome to the mouse section at its best. lol.
> 
> The 3366 has the highest PCS of any mouse sensor and is the overall best sensor, but it's trapped in a shell that I would never consider using.
> 
> Next best thing to this is the Mionix mice, so that's why I use the Avior at 70/360.


Frankenmouse that thing!


----------



## Falkentyne

wow that messed up, anyway:

Yeah I tried to explain this.

The deathadder black edition (3.5G?) starts up extremely quickly with barely touching the mouse at 1800 DPI.
The original deathadder (which is said apparently to have a better raw feel than the 3.5g) actually takes MORE movement distance to start up at the same 1800 DPI, which seems like the 3.5G was actually designed to handle that very low speed movement better.

The G502 seems to function identically to the 3G deathadder at 1800 DPI (same dfstance needed to start movement; more than the 3.5G/black edition), but at higher DPI (like 6000 dpi), it starts up MUCH faster. And at 12000 DPI, blowing on the mouse makes it move.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> no, the market for a 800 dpi mouse is small...


Pretty sure this is mainly because of the deceptive marketing that manufacturers have been doing in regards to pushing higher and higher DPI on their mice as if it has some kind of tangible benefit.

Tell me a situation where 3000-12000dpi on 6/11 with no accel is going to be used by someone...

I mean, there was a point before raw input implementation in games where useful dpi could get up to around 2000 if you had high enough sensitivity on a high enough resolution. But with raw input now in most games, you don't even need that anymore.

800DPI is pretty ideal for 1080p monitors. I'm using 400dpi with dual monitors and it's fine for me. It would be slightly more convenient to have 800dpi, but it's really no big deal.

It seems to me like most people get high DPI mice because:
1. That's all that's really available... no manufacturer has released a low DPI gaming mouse in the past 10+ years that I've heard of...
2. There are other features like higher malfunction speed that also come with those mice.
3. Then miscellaneous things like lights, coating, shape, etc.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> We already have far too many PC gamers buying garbage mice with awful sensors and being 100% happy with all of these flaws. Because of this group of gamers companies are free to keep releasing bad products because who cares if a small percent of the competitive consumers are unhappy, business is still good. This allows the mouse market to be controlled by a bunch of idiots which is what is causing this missing gap in the market for a mouse designed only for performance.
> 
> These companies are getting rich off of us, we shouldn't be making ANY excuses about the products that they're feeding to us. We need as many extremely picky/sensitive/ OCD people as we can get involved. If a sensor is released that can please Maximilian for an example in regards to smoothing, it will also be more than enough to please all of the casuals or less "ocd" people at the same time. This will prevent that missing gap in the market because everyone will have a mouse that they need as long as that amazing sensor is included in whatever shell and button combo a specific gamer prefers.
> 
> Pixart or whoever else decides to try to make a sensor needs to never take a step back or compromise anything when designing a new sensor. Use the MLT04 as a baseline (IMO the best tracking quality of all sensors that I have used) and proceed forward. If adding more CPI causes jitter/accel/input lag/low pcs then don't do it. Completely redesign a new sensor from the ground up that IS capable of doing those things instead of release bandaids such as smoothing to fix those side effect problems. The ultimate goal should be perfect 1:1 tracking to provide a situation where if you missed your mark it was because it was completely your fault, you're an imprecise human after all. I personally find it pathetic that in 2014 we are still discussing and searching for a mouse sensor to do just that.


Exactly.

This is the main problem that we should ALL be working to fight against.

Take a look at BST's mouse. It has a shape that is pretty much ideal for all hand shapes and sizes, and all grips (instead of these mice which are only good for 1 grip). This is because he listened to the community and took feedback. These main gaming companies seem to be listening to some very clueless people.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> The problem is perception can be impacted by placebo. Just because Max feels a problem, it doesn't mean it exists. Conversely, just because you don't feel a problem, it doesn't mean it does not exists.
> 
> I think some people either work in the industry or know people in the industry and i can understand people taking offense when the work they do or know people that do in the last 15 years is called inferior. People care and take pride in their work including the engineers that built and designed modern mice.


It's not only me though. There are plenty of other users on these forums who agree. It's pretty common knowledge among people in the competitive CS (and I'm pretty sure quake too) community who have used the 3.0 and compared it with other mice. Metal571 even notices it, he just needs the higher malfunction speed of the 3310, 3366, etc..


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Pretty sure this is mainly because of the deceptive marketing that manufacturers have been doing in regards to pushing higher and higher DPI on their mice as if it has some kind of tangible benefit.


oh yeah, absolutely. Convince customers to get a new mouse by suggesting that higher DPI is more accurate

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> It's not only me though. There are plenty of other users on these forums who agree. It's pretty common knowledge among people in the competitive CS (and I'm pretty sure quake too) community who have used the 3.0 and compared it with other mice. Metal571 even notices it, he just needs the higher malfunction speed of the 3310, 3366, etc..


Placebo can effect large numbers of people. And even between the two of you there seems to be some discrepancy. If i remember correctly, Metal thinks Zowie mice are more responsive then the 3310 and you think they're the same.

I like the pyra, i'm not sure if it feels more responsive because its lighter and glides easier or if there is less smoothing, it doesn't matter for me. It is possible that the pyra has more smoothing then the g502 for as much as i know, but i don't care, i clearly perform better with the pyra. I even use it on the puretrak talent, which common theory says i shouldn't because the talent is a blue pad and the pyra uses a blue light.

The point being general performance should trump any singular stat.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> Placebo can effect large numbers of people. And even between the two of you there seems to be some discrepancy. If i remember correctly, Metal thinks Zowie mice are more responsive then the 3310 and you think they're the same.


The thing is that there is no reason why placebo would have effected people's opinions on this specific mouse. In fact, if anything placebo should effect other gaming mice since they are aggressively marketed as something special/superior.

In regards to the Zowie mice, I only used them on 450dpi, whereas people concluded later that 2300dpi was superior.


----------



## metal571

The 3310 in my Avior feels more responsive at 400 than 5000. It's noticeable. Dynamic fps might be a thing.

It's not placebo the MLT04 was more responsive even on my old 60 hz monitor.


----------



## bvazx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> In regards to the Zowie mice, I only used them on 450dpi, whereas people concluded later that 2300dpi was superior.


I use my FK on only 1150 dpi and I'm happy.


----------



## Ino.

Just to make this clear: my only argument was that smoothing does not mean less accurate. I'm not denying that smoothing might be an issue.

There might very well be some processing lag that people can perceive, it's up to the individual then if it is too much or acceptable.

For the sake of comparison I'm going to buy a WMO or IE 3.0 when I'm back from holiday, although I know I can't use them for gaming.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Just to make this clear: my only argument was that smoothing does not mean less accurate. I'm not denying that smoothing might be an issue.
> 
> There might very well be some processing lag that people can perceive, it's up to the individual then if it is too much or acceptable.
> 
> For the sake of comparison I'm going to buy a WMO or IE 3.0 when I'm back from holiday, although I know I can't use them for gaming.


Do you know for sure if it is the "slower updates" that is causing the issue? Because I don't mind calling it a delay if that's what's causing the feeling. It doesn't really FEEL like a delay; I described it as the feeling that the crosshair is glossing over pixels like as if on ice, which results in inaccuracy ingame so that's what I've been calling it, but if you know for sure that it is something else that's causing the problem then tell me what you want me to call it.


----------



## the1freeMan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Just to make this clear: my only argument was that smoothing does not mean less accurate. I'm not denying that smoothing might be an issue.
> 
> There might very well be some processing lag that people can perceive, it's up to the individual then if it is too much or acceptable.
> 
> For the sake of comparison I'm going to buy a WMO or IE 3.0 when I'm back from holiday, although I know I can't use them for gaming.


I'm playing around with a WMO at the moment. I use a ~48cm/360 and always snobbed these mice because of the tracking rates.
I'm surprised, I am actually adapting to it.
It does feel a bit more "raw" than the G400. Weight difference to be taken in account obviously. Starting speed seems pretty high and the 800cpi G400 is better on that.
I do miss the faster flicks and granularity but I value precision among other aspects.
This is my opinion after three days with it. Time will tell my final preference.

I always say "there is no perfect mouse" but what the hell, the technology is there and I'm sick of compromises. Compromise friggin' dpi! That should be the motto.
It is up to us to inform as many people as we can about how they don't need 12000dpi.
I had a discussion the other day with a professional photographer about camera megapixel ratings being abused the same way...

@MaximilianKohler

I don't remember CS promod having raw input... on a 1920 screen with 90fov (cs 1.6) @ 250fps, 1600dpi already go under 4m/s. @ 1600 horizontal resolution it's 1200dpi.
Many players are used to playing without raw input, don't like the disconnected feel, have consistent fps and low latency optimized systems.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Do you know for sure if it is the "slower updates" that is causing the issue? Because I don't mind calling it a delay if that's what's causing the feeling. It doesn't really FEEL like a delay; I described it as the feeling that the crosshair is glossing over pixels like as if on ice, which results in inaccuracy ingame so that's what I've been calling it, but if you know for sure that it is something else that's causing the problem then tell me what you want me to call it.


Well, it probably is some delay due to processing, so maybe call it that? I'm not sure if it's the update rate but I know I would always trust skylit.


----------



## FreeElectron

The only way to truly test smoothing delay is by a camera that can actually measure milliseconds!
And then whoever is rich enough to buy such a camera will need to buy that old mouse you guys speak of and see who much delay is there then compare it to the G502
But none is going to spend that much cash/time when it is just easier to say how you "feel" about things.

Regarding the pixel walk issue
Has anyone reported pixel walk on the G502?
Has anyone (beside atavax) reported mouse acceleration (Is it a common thing)?
Also Is there are any other problems beside the weight/shape?


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> The only way to truly test smoothing delay is by a camera that can actually measure milliseconds!
> And then whoever is rich enough to buy such a camera will need to buy that old mouse you guys speak of and see who much delay is there then compare it to the G502
> But none is going to spend that much cash/time when it is just easier to say how you "feel" about things.
> 
> Regarding the pixel walk issue
> Has anyone reported pixel walk on the G502?
> Has anyone (beside atavax) reported mouse acceleration (Is it a common thing)?
> Also Is there are any other problems beside the weight/shape?


I think 1 vid on youtube has accel with g502, but the guy said that after RMAing the G502 does not have accel anymore.

Other than shape/weight, feet quality.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Regarding the pixel walk issue
> Has anyone reported pixel walk on the G502?
> Has anyone (beside atavax) reported mouse acceleration (Is it a common thing)?
> Also Is there are any other problems beside the weight/shape?


No pixel walk for me with the 3310 and 3366 sensors. They both felt accurate on the desktop.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> No pixel walk for me with the 3310 and 3366 sensors. They both felt accurate on the desktop.


Thanks for the feedback


----------



## CorruptBE

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Just to make this clear: my only argument was that smoothing does not mean less accurate. I'm not denying that smoothing might be an issue.
> 
> There might very well be some processing lag that people can perceive, it's up to the individual then if it is too much or acceptable.
> 
> For the sake of comparison I'm going to buy a WMO or IE 3.0 when I'm back from holiday, although I know I can't use them for gaming.


Personally, as far as I can perceive something it goes like this:


No problems with fast straight forward flicks straight on target
Small tiny adjustments feel delayed (not less accurate but delayed)
Becomes annoying when having to mildly correct a few pixels on my monitor after a flick really quickly (CS headshots, mildly noticeable in sniping in BF4)
It's less of an issue in Quake/UT where speed and agility is more important then precision (lack of having to go for headshots I guess, just flick for the body and boom. Lightening or Sniper rifle somewhat annoying though). In Quake for instance, the acceleration of the 9500 sensor became a huge issue compared to CS/BF4 (the speed of the game required fast and consistent flicks).

Don't take my word for it though, this is just how I perceive it. I can still do well with a smoothed mouse, but I never seem to reach my "maximum" potential with it.

My comparison is with a DA 3G 1800dpi though (no prediction firmware).


----------



## Atavax

I just know that i had to create more difficult training parameters shortly after switching to the pyra because i was nearing a point where there was little room for improvement. That i scored higher shooting at 8r target with the pyra than i have ever shooting at a 12r target using every modern mouse i've had, the 3.5gDA, EC1 and EC2 evo cl's, spawn, logitech g502. And i've been using it less then a week.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> I just know that i had to create more difficult training parameters shortly after switching to the pyra because i was nearing a point where there was little room for improvement. That i scored higher shooting at 8r target with the pyra than i have ever shooting at a 12r target using every modern mouse i've had, the 3.5gDA, EC1 and EC2 evo cl's, spawn, logitech g502. And i've been using it less then a week.


Yeah you keep praising that thing. Do a full review for us? I don't think people have paid much attention to the Pyra lately. Or maybe I didn't see your review, but I doubt it. I check every new post on this forum every day lol


----------



## CorruptBE

I tried the Pyra at a mates house once and it's fairly decent tbh. The mild prediction was a nono though for me.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Yeah, I did a search for the Pyra's sensor (3305DK-H) earlier and saw some complaints about it.


----------



## Atavax

it probably does have mild prediction. The only other mouse i know of with a 1600dpi 3305DK-H is the zowie mico which was designed by some esports people, and it has a substantially lower pcs. So the pyra's sensor seems one of a kind and i'm hesitant to take observations of other 3305DK-H sensors and lump them into the pyra. I don't think i've seen any complaints on the sensor specifically talking about it in the pyra other then just now from Corrupt.


----------



## TK421

3305DK not that good. I've used it with V8 mouse, max speed is only 1.9m/s (2.05 I heard from some people). Angle snapping is annoying.

3305DK-H - maxspeed around twice of 3305DK (4m/s) - but DPi is lower (1600 native max)

I read on reddit that zowie mico only has 1.37m/s trackspeed (3305DK), how is this possible?


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> it probably does have mild prediction. The only other mouse i know of with a 1600dpi 3305DK-H is the zowie mico which was designed by some esports people, and it has a substantially lower pcs. So the pyra's sensor seems one of a kind and i'm hesitant to take observations of other 3305DK-H sensors and lump them into the pyra. I don't think i've seen any complaints on the sensor specifically talking about it in the pyra other then just now from Corrupt.


Would you do a video review of both?


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Personally, as far as I can perceive something it goes like this:
> 
> 
> No problems with fast straight forward flicks straight on target
> Small tiny adjustments feel delayed (not less accurate but delayed)
> Becomes annoying when having to mildly correct a few pixels on my monitor after a flick really quickly (CS headshots, mildly noticeable in sniping in BF4)
> It's less of an issue in Quake/UT where speed and agility is more important then precision (lack of having to go for headshots I guess, just flick for the body and boom. Lightening or Sniper rifle somewhat annoying though). In Quake for instance, the acceleration of the 9500 sensor became a huge issue compared to CS/BF4 (the speed of the game required fast and consistent flicks).
> 
> Don't take my word for it though, this is just how I perceive it. I can still do well with a smoothed mouse, but I never seem to reach my "maximum" potential with it.
> 
> My comparison is with a DA 3G 1800dpi though (no prediction firmware).


About the tiny movement adjustments;
You have to compare the mice at their maximum resolution to actually test that accurately.
Run a deathadder at 450 DPI and you will see the same 'lag' delay with tiny movements (basically just having to move the mouse MORE distance in order for tracking to start), as compared to running at 1800 dpi.
Both the DA 3G 1800 DPI and the G502 seem to act very similar in this regard, with the 3G feeling a bit more snappy, while the 3.5G (black edition) feels the snappiest

But just to show you that that is all about the current resolution--
try putting your G502 at 12000 dpi.

Notice how the tiny movements are now completely instant?

The 3.5G/black edition deathadder had this type of instant reaction at 1800 DPI (probably tuned for this)
the 3G felt more like the G502 (just a tad more responsive at same dpi

In my personal tests with tiny movements like that,
I found the black edition DA at 1800 DPI feels like the G502 at 6000 DPI.


----------



## TK421

So it's better to use 12K instead of 800?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> So it's better to use 12K instead of 800?


No

I still think what falkentyne experiences is a bit of a placebo effect. I don't experience any deadzone on mine at 800 but there is jitter at 12000


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> No
> 
> I still think what falkentyne experiences is a bit of a placebo effect. I don't experience any deadzone on mine at 800 but there is jitter at 12000


That plus he still doesn't understand it's completely normal and expected behavior for higher DPI to translate smaller hand movements into more cursor movement... that's what DPI does. 800 DPI has about 31 counts in a millimeter while there is 472 counts in a mm at 12000 DPI. Same principle on an even smaller scale.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> 3305DK not that good. I've used it with V8 mouse, max speed is only 1.9m/s (2.05 I heard from some people). Angle snapping is annoying.
> 
> 3305DK-H - maxspeed around twice of 3305DK (4m/s) - but DPi is lower (1600 native max)
> 
> I read on reddit that zowie mico only has 1.37m/s trackspeed (3305DK), how is this possible?


Same sensor doesn't mean exact same behavior in every mouse with the same sensor. (yuck, this sentence sounds awful)


----------



## icetorch

What are the known issues that the G502 have?


LOD?
Feet coming off? (but those can be superglued?)
When picked up and dropped it right clicks?


----------



## Krucid

Quote:


> What are the known issues that the G502 have?
> 
> LOD?
> Feet coming off? (but those can be superglued?)
> When picked up and dropped it right clicks?


Weight, bothers some, doesn't others.
Didn't notice much issue with LOD.
Feet does come off. They might be using better feet on new batches. I would assume you could clean the feet and super glue them on.
Some say it right clicks. Only way i could get it to do it was to land it fairly hard on the mat. Wouldn't think any normal person would treat their mouse that way.
Sniper button can get in the way depending on grip.
M1/M2 sticks to sweaty fingers and makes noise when you lift on the buttons.
Mouse wheel is not to everyone's liking. I think it is okay.

That's about all i can think of.


----------



## LocutusH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *icetorch*
> 
> What are the known issues that the G502 have?
> 
> 
> LOD?
> Feet coming off? (but those can be superglued?)
> When picked up and dropped it right clicks?


I am using the mouse since day1 but seen none of these problems here...


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> I am using the mouse since day1 but seen none of these problems here...


My first g502 had the feet come off. Never experienced the other two.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *icetorch*
> 
> What are the known issues that the G502 have?
> 
> 
> LOD?
> Feet coming off? (but those can be superglued?)
> When picked up and dropped it right clicks?


For me:
Cons:
Too heavy, poor button placement, too narrow in the back, scroll wheel too far back, middle button hard to click causing accidental scrolls, and ultimately the sensor still doesn't match the MLT04 (because of the "smoothing delay" that causes the mouse to feel inaccurate in FPS games).

Pros:
Good build quality, good grip, shape is decent, sensor is decent (I'd rank it 2nd to the MLT04), features are nice, high perfect control speed, cable is flexible enough that it doesn't hinder mouse movement and stiff enough that it's not flopping around.





.


----------



## icetorch

Just goes to show you that one mouse isn't perfect for everyone.


----------



## AlCZ

I test it a five days...
*PROS:
*good build quality
nice futuristic design
nice color
gorgeous sniping button
gyroscopic whell
Really good sensor
Profiles for many games...
Calibrate sensor function.

*CONS:*
HEAVY !!! (on "Head") and with added weight very heavy...
It is palm grip mouse but (for me) unofortunatelly not too conformtable as DeathAdder.

Final verdict ?

It is nice mouce, but VERY heavy and i dont´know why but isn´t too confortable as DA... I´m very disappointed


----------



## dontspamme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> No
> 
> I still think what falkentyne experiences is a bit of a placebo effect. I don't experience any deadzone on mine at 800 but there is jitter at 12000


I've had many, many mice over the years.
What Falkentyne describes absolutely fits with my own experiences with DPI and 'dead-zones'.

So, *not* placebo.

I mean, think about it... if you could set your mouse @ 4 DPI, do you think it would be just as responsive at smaller movements as @ 12000 DPI? Of course not.
Most people just don't notice the difference between 800 DPI and 4000 DPI. I do - every time.

I cannot speak to the G502 myself. I do not own this mouse. But I'm guessing its the same principle as all other optical mice I've had.
Whenever Logitech decides to release a mouse with this sensor in a better shape/weight, I plan to use it @ 12000 DPI.


----------



## Atavax

why do you crazy europeans use dpi and not like dpcm or dpm?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dontspamme*
> 
> I've had many, many mice over the years.
> What Falkentyne describes absolutely fits with my own experiences with DPI and 'dead-zones'.
> 
> So, *not* placebo.
> 
> I mean, think about it... if you could set your mouse @ 4 DPI, do you think it would be just as responsive at smaller movements as @ 12000 DPI? Of course not.
> Most people just don't notice the difference between 800 DPI and 4000 DPI. I do - every time.
> 
> I cannot speak to the G502 myself. I do not own this mouse. But I'm guessing its the same principle as all other optical mice I've had.
> Whenever Logitech decides to release a mouse with this sensor in a better shape/weight, I plan to use it @ 12000 DPI.


The first count comes with the first movement, of course the counts after that come after a shorter distance at higher dpi.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> why do you crazy europeans use dpi and not like dpcm or dpm?


dpb or cpb ftw!


----------



## cloudpierre

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> I am using the mouse since day1 but seen none of these problems here...


same here. had my g502 for over a month now. feet are still perfect. although my scroll wheel does make a very very slight grinding noise on occasion, the issue is extremely minor considering all things that can be and usually are wrong with mice


----------



## InVicT2009

Just a quick note, can i have the mouse at 6k dpis with the mouse pointer speed at like 3, and not experience the "mouse dead zone" you been talking about or i need to use the 6-11 notch?

Because its pretty insane to cope with the speed.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloudpierre*
> 
> same here. had my g502 for over a month now. feet are still perfect. although my scroll wheel does make a very very slight grinding noise on occasion, the issue is extremely minor considering all things that can be and usually are wrong with mice


My feet are fine aswell as far as I know. What are people talking about when they mean bad feet?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> Just a quick note, can i have the mouse at 6k dpis with the mouse pointer speed at like 3, and not experience the "mouse dead zone" you been talking about or i need to use the 6-11 notch?
> 
> Because its pretty insane to cope with the speed.


Have you had an issue with a "dead-zone" on this mouse? Cause I sure have not noticed anything like that. If you don't notice it at all, and it doesn't impact your game, then there's no reason to worry about it.

Just ask yourself: If someone hadn't put the idea in my head, would it be an issue?


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> Just a quick note, can i have the mouse at 6k dpis with the mouse pointer speed at like 3, and not experience the "mouse dead zone" you been talking about or i need to use the 6-11 notch?
> 
> Because its pretty insane to cope with the speed.


Lowering windows slider actually could create some dead zone feeling because it ignores counts sent by the mouse. On 6/11 there is no real dead zone with the G502, just some misinformation.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmr1*
> 
> Lowering windows slider actually could create some dead zone feeling because it ignores counts sent by the mouse. On 6/11 there is no real dead zone with the G502, just some misinformation.


Love this guy.


----------



## InVicT2009

Actually, i mainly play planetside 2 bf3 cs go and lol, lol and ps2 are badly optimized for mice anyway, and cs go and bf3 have raw input witch i use.

I played a competitive match, with 0.12 sense no accel ofc did 23-6 the mouse felt pretty good, but now i aint sure if it was the increased dpis, or the fact that i had one sense closer to i normally use.

WELL i guess its time to review this thing.

Im disapointed.

Lets start with the pros, for me the mouse is very elegant and pleasing to the eye, build quality is very good i like the scroll feel, the switches are very responsive, sensor is very accurate and the cord is the best braided cord ive seen, very flexible minimal resistance.

So to the cons now i will start with the most important ones, weight and center off mass.
This mouse is a tiny bit bigger than my roccat pure optical, yet it weights in more 30 grams, so the mouse feels heavy and slugish.
Once i removed the weight cover, it felt less heavy, yet it feels very heavy to my hand .

The mouse makes my hand cramp, and sweat more than kpo .
Now a thing i wasnt expecting, the sensor, didnt felt at least for me noticeably better than the kpo and its "the huge lagg delay 4000 dpi rom" (something that i never noticed).

Another thing is the center of mass of the mouse , ive opened this thing to find out that all the pcb and hardware is cramped upfront not to mencion the whale heavy scroll , all this combined makes the mouse feel like all the weight is upfront and the back is just an empty shell, this adds to the disconfort for people who lift the mouse a lot (like me).

The software, didnt recognise it from the get go, i have Windows 8.1, i had to install the thing with administrator support, (the only account i have its the admin).

So in comparison the kpo is much lighter much easier to handle the quality is very good dosent cramp my hand feels confortable and the sensor is on par with the best ive tested.
Roccat has done one thing with the software that i love to death, that nobody seems to have done.
Easy shift , that thing is just amazing.

if you like heavy mice, its a solid choice, if you are used to light mice, forget it.


----------



## VagueRant

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *InVicT2009*
> 
> Roccat has done one thing with the software that i love to death, that nobody seems to have done.
> Easy shift , that thing is just amazing.


Logitech has their own implementation called G-Shift in the Logitech Gaming Software.


----------



## ~kRon1k~

Anyone have a problem with the middle mouse wheel? Just had to return my G502 to Logitech because I pressed it down, and it got stuck in that position and doesn't register a click unless you push down fairly hard. Other than that I am in love with the precision of the sensor on this mouse. I have used many mice since I started gaming on PC, and I have to say that this is the closest I have ever come to using the perfect mouse


----------



## Mednes

Hey guys, I just got this mouse and immediately after a few minutes of playing I'm getting a spinning bug. Basically, I don't move the mouse and ingame I'm staring at the ground/ceiling and spinning violently... and stops only after I lift the mouse up... is it a defective mouse or what could be the issue?

edit: I've tested it in Killing Floor and TF2 thus far, but I doubt it's game specific...

edit2: Seems that setting the software to onboard memory option solved the problem? If it happens even with this, I'll reedit this post / make a new one


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mednes*
> 
> Hey guys, I just got this mouse and immediately after a few minutes of playing I'm getting a spinning bug. Basically, I don't move the mouse and ingame I'm staring at the ground/ceiling and spinning violently... and stops only after I lift the mouse up... is it a defective mouse or what could be the issue?
> 
> edit: I've tested it in Killing Floor and TF2 thus far, but I doubt it's game specific...


It's a known issue. Usually reported by people using Source games. It is very hit or miss. Some people have it and can't get rid of it, and some people never see it at all. I've never had an issue between two G502's and two completely different PC's. Others that have it, say an exchanged mouse, changed settings, and different mouse pads don't make a difference. It's very strange. The Deathadder 2013 had this issue upon release, but it was quickly corrected with a firmware update.

Logitech said they're investigating the issue and will update everyone shortly.


----------



## Mednes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> It's a known issue. Usually reported by people using Source games. It is very hit or miss. Some people have it and can't get rid of it, and some people never see it at all. I've never had an issue between two G502's and two completely different PC's. Others that have it, say an exchanged mouse, changed settings, and different mouse pads don't make a difference. It's very strange. The Deathadder 2013 had this issue upon release, but it was quickly corrected with a firmware update.
> 
> Logitech said they're investigating the issue and will update everyone shortly.


My issue is entirely different. KF is a Unreal engine game, not to mention my previous mouse worked and still works fine. There might have been a conflict between razer and logitech software (i have the aforementioned DA 2013)... anyways, setting the logitech software to a different option seems to have fixed the problem (from automatic game detection into on-board memory)


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mednes*
> 
> My issue is entirely different. KF is a Unreal engine game, not to mention my previous mouse worked and still works fine. There might have been a conflict between razer and logitech software (i have the aforementioned DA 2013)... anyways, setting the logitech software to a different option seems to have fixed the problem (from automatic game detection into on-board memory)


Sweet! Maybe it was just a software conflict. Some people on the Logitech forum said that tinkering with the onboard memory did help resolve a lot of their issues.


----------



## nocebo

I have the bug sometimes and have always used onboard memory. Will try to swap back and forth thou.


----------



## Mednes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nocebo*
> 
> I have the bug sometimes and have always used onboard memory. Will try to swap back and forth thou.


yeh, it just happened to me again... much less often it seems, but might just be lucky or w/e... not sure whether to return it or not, if it will be fixed or not...


----------



## ChrisPh

Hello everyone, i bought my g502 like 15 days ago and im having an issue.
My g5 button is double clicking sometimes, not very often but it does happen and in mmos im playing is really annoying if i have to hold down the button for a charge skill or something,
do u guys think theres a solution to this?
or should i return it?


----------



## i4mt3hwin

The quality control on this mouse is god awful. I've owned three now, all three have had the weird spin around bug in source engine games (so it's definitely something software). One of them had a stuck mouse wheel after about two days and two of them right clicked when dropped from heights above 1/4". The third one's magnet is like super weak so when i lift the mouse the flap opens up.

Wonderful sensor, terrible mouse. Well, honestly aside from the sniper button and the stiff scroll wheel I love the feel but I keep having problem after problem with these things, frustrating.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i4mt3hwin*
> 
> The quality control on this mouse is god awful. I've owned three now, all three have had the weird spin around bug in source engine games (so it's definitely something software). One of them had a stuck mouse wheel after about two days and two of them right clicked when dropped from heights above 1/4". The third one's magnet is like super weak so when i lift the mouse the flap opens up.
> 
> Wonderful sensor, terrible mouse. Well, honestly aside from the sniper button and the stiff scroll wheel I love the feel but I keep having problem after problem with these things, frustrating.


did you try setting it to "onboard"?


----------



## i4mt3hwin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> did you try setting it to "onboard"?


The last time I tried the mouse I read about the posts here and I thought I switched it to onboard. I proceeded to play a cs match in which I ended up in a 1v1 situation t side with bomb down. Guy hits defuse I peek and my screen went straight to the ground and rotated 180. At that point I ripped the mouse out of my computer and switched back to my Rival. I just looked now though, because I never uninstalled the drivers and it's set to game detection. I dunno if that's because I unplugged the mouse though or whatever. I guess I can try it again when I'm home but the the mouse I have now has the magnet problem and I'm too lazy to return it again -- so even if it does work I'm screwed.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i4mt3hwin*
> 
> The last time I tried the mouse I read about the posts here and I thought I switched it to onboard. I proceeded to play a cs match in which I ended up in a 1v1 situation t side with bomb down. Guy hits defuse I peek and my screen went straight to the ground and rotated 180. At that point I ripped the mouse out of my computer and switched back to my Rival. I just looked now though, because I never uninstalled the drivers and it's set to game detection. I dunno if that's because I unplugged the mouse though or whatever. I guess I can try it again when I'm home but the the mouse I have now has the magnet problem and I'm too lazy to return it again -- so even if it does work I'm screwed.


Just wanted to know because some people said this would be a solution. If it is then we could pass this on to Logitech to fix the software.


----------



## xmr1

I had the spinning bug happen a couple times even without the software installed. It was pretty rare though.


----------



## ChrisPh

such a dissapointment this g502, 80 euros for that **** and all issues *cry mode on*


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChrisPh*
> 
> such a dissapointment this g502, 80 euros for that **** and all issues *cry mode on*


----------



## Luxury4Play

So my G502 just arrived and i really like it. The only minor problem that i see is the spining wheel. Its kind of "hard" to spin in low speeds.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Luxury4Play*
> 
> So my G502 just arrived and i really like it. The only minor problem that i see is the spining wheel. Its kind of "hard" to spin in low speeds.


I don't understand your problem. Do you have it in free spin mode? You can toggle it by pressing the button right behind the wheel.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChrisPh*
> 
> such a dissapointment this g502, 80 euros for that **** and all issues *cry mode on*


The only issue I've had, which btw is really personal preference, is the sniper button being annoying

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> I don't understand your problem. Do you have it in free spin mode? You can toggle it by pressing the button right behind the wheel.


When you spin it at fast speeds it doesn't even register as individual clicks.

IE: if you bind mousewheel to jump and spin the wheel fast, you won't start jumping till the wheel starts to slow down.

And it's not easy to quickly spin it at a low enough speed to register jumps right away.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> When you spin it at fast speeds it doesn't even register as individual clicks.
> 
> IE: if you bind mousewheel to jump and spin the wheel fast, you won't start jumping till the wheel starts to slow down.
> 
> And it's not easy to quickly spin it at a low enough speed to register jumps right away.


That's weird, my G502 scroll doesn't have a lag in registering the wheel movement.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> That's weird, my G502 scroll doesn't have a lag in registering the wheel movement.


What game are you doing it in?


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> What game are you doing it in?


BF4

edit: scroll up is bind to jump. the animation of jump start as fast compared to using spacebar. tested in freescroll/standard mode


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> BF4
> 
> edit: scroll up is bind to jump. the animation of jump start as fast compared to using spacebar. tested in freescroll/standard mode


It starts and then continues to jump again and again as the wheel keeps spinning on it's own? And you're spinning the wheel pretty fast/quick?

Maybe it has to do with specific game coding... I wonder what game @Luxury4Play is playing.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> It starts and then continues to jump again and again as the wheel keeps spinning on it's own? And you're spinning the wheel pretty fast/quick?
> 
> Maybe it has to do with specific game coding... I wonder what game @Luxury4Play is playing.


well. because the wheel is heavy, you can "flick" it and get multiple jump at once. including in freescroll mode.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> well. because the wheel is heavy, you can "flick" it and get multiple jump at once. including in freescroll mode.


That's what we're talking about. When you put it in freescroll mode where it keeps spinning.

For me it would jump once, then not at all for a few seconds still the wheel slowed down to where it was spinning at a low to moderate speed. Then it would start jumping again.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> That's what we're talking about. When you put it in freescroll mode where it keeps spinning.
> 
> For me it would jump once, then not at all for a few seconds still the wheel slowed down to where it was spinning at a low to moderate speed. Then it would start jumping again.


Isn't that specific to CS to prevent bunny hopping by button spam? I thin there was something like that.

However in BF games when I tried to bind fire to wheel down and then scrolled down with any mouse it would only fire every scroll once or twice.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Isn't that specific to CS to prevent bunny hopping by button spam? I thin there was something like that.
> 
> However in BF games when I tried to bind fire to wheel down and then scrolled down with any mouse it would only fire every scroll once or twice.


Actually it is a prevention (of some sort)

If I put the wheel in freescroll mode, then use a high RPM weapon on single shot. It would oversample (because of the excessive command to fire) and eventually make the gun not able to fire.

I try this with AEK971 (900RPM) and FAMAS (1000RPM) (single shot)


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Isn't that specific to CS to prevent bunny hopping by button spam? I thin there was something like that.
> 
> However in BF games when I tried to bind fire to wheel down and then scrolled down with any mouse it would only fire every scroll once or twice.


I'm not 100% sure... Typically if you hold a button down you'll jump once then not anymore. But the reason people use the scrollwheel is because it sends the jump command multiple times in very little time so there's a much better chance that you'll send a jump command right when you're hitting the ground. Now the G502 wheel shouldn't be sending the jump command that much faster than a regular scroll wheel when it's in free spin mode, and I've never scrolled a wheel too fast to the point that it stopped sending jump commands. So I don't see why the G502 wheel would only be sending jump commands once it starts to slow down...

But when it does slow down and start sending jump commands it works like an bhop script to where you don't need to touch the wheel and you'll be able to bunny hop around since it's spinning on it's own.

Damn.. I should have tested it with binding it to fire ._.

@TK421 you wouldn't happen to have CS 1.6 or halflife 1 would you?


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I'm not 100% sure... Typically if you hold a button down you'll jump once then not anymore. But the reason people use the scrollwheel is because it sends the jump command multiple times in very little time so there's a much better chance that you'll send a jump command right when you're hitting the ground. Now the G502 wheel shouldn't be sending the jump command that much faster than a regular scroll wheel when it's in free spin mode, and I've never scrolled a wheel too fast to the point that it stopped sending jump commands. So I don't see why the G502 wheel would only be sending jump commands once it starts to slow down...
> 
> But when it does slow down and start sending jump commands it works like an bhop script to where you don't need to touch the wheel and you'll be able to bunny hop around since it's spinning on it's own.
> 
> Damn.. I should have tested it with binding it to fire ._.
> 
> @TK421 you wouldn't happen to have CS 1.6 or halflife 1 would you?


I have cs1.6

Should test with scroll or fire a weapon?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> I have cs1.6
> 
> Should test with scroll or fire a weapon?


Test with binding scroll wheel to jump, then bind it to +attack.


----------



## thuNDa

that the scrollwheel doesn't register when it spins too fast, reminds me of the old razer boomslang 2000, which used similar technology, but for registering the motion of the (ball)mouse.


----------



## Nerdface Killah

The sniper button being so far up from my thumb might make it a deal breaker. I'm thinking about returning it. I am coming from a G700s and I didn't go with the G602 is because the scroll wheel lock/free wheel wasn't there and it was on the 502. So disappointed. I believe I use a claw/fingertip grip.


----------



## Nerdface Killah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> I'm not 100% sure... Typically if you hold a button down you'll jump once then not anymore. But the reason people use the scrollwheel is because it sends the jump command multiple times in very little time so there's a much better chance that you'll send a jump command right when you're hitting the ground. Now the G502 wheel shouldn't be sending the jump command that much faster than a regular scroll wheel when it's in free spin mode, and I've never scrolled a wheel too fast to the point that it stopped sending jump commands. So I don't see why the G502 wheel would only be sending jump commands once it starts to slow down...
> 
> But when it does slow down and start sending jump commands it works like an bhop script to where you don't need to touch the wheel and you'll be able to bunny hop around since it's spinning on it's own.
> 
> Damn.. I should have tested it with binding it to fire ._.
> 
> @TK421 you wouldn't happen to have CS 1.6 or halflife 1 would you?


My MS IME3.0 I could scroll it so fast that it stops registering and it would just go bezerk.


----------



## FreeElectron

How is the SteelSeries 9HD going to perform with the Logitech G502?
I want a mouse pad that
- Has a smooth glide and low friction
- Good durability as i am trying to avoid the increased friction after extensive use
- Easy to clean considering that cleaning shall make it act as if it is new


----------



## QuickFix

I'm using my G502 on a 7 year old CorePad Magna Glass mouse pad. Smooth as silk and very responsive. The mouse and the pad are both great products!!


----------



## 98uk

Have the issues with inconsistent tracking with the G502 been rectified... or at least the cause found (to create a workaround)?

I currently have a standard G500, but i'm always a fan of having a spare/backup mouse... so if one breaks during the weekend when I want to play, I don't have to wait to buy another one.

I really love Logitech mice due to their shape and the buttons/scroll wheel fits perfectly with my style of play (binding DPI change to tilt left/right on the scroll wheel). I only use two DPI steps 2200 and 800 and flick between them in FPS games.

I wanted to get the G502, but i'm a little but off that this inconsistent tracking may render it useless in BF4. Thoughts?


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *QuickFix*
> 
> I'm using my G502 on a 7 year old CorePad Magna Glass mouse pad. Smooth as silk and very responsive. The mouse and the pad are both great products!!


It's said that glass pads are noisy!


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> It's said that glass pads are noisy!


This Icemat isn't noisy, if you don't mind hearing fingernails rake down a chalk board every time a spec of dust gets between your mouse and the pad.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> This Icemat isn't noisy, if you don't mind hearing fingernails rake down a chalk board every time a spec of dust gets between your mouse and the pad.


oh shi!


----------



## Blashyrkh

I finally bought it today, with the corsair MM600

i didn't try it in game yet, but these are my firt impressions:

- quite heavy compared to the death adder, but still bearable.
without the bottm lid it is lighter and still usable, it doesn't bend to the left.

- the g8 button's right edge is on the same level of the left button, so it's possible to push both buttons when I try to push the g8

- the wheel is awesome in every aspect.

- the sniper button is too far from my thumb, it's difficult to reach without change the grip...I have a 19cm long hand

- it is comfortable, but i would have liked it slightly wider


----------



## LocutusH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *98uk*
> 
> Have the issues with inconsistent tracking with the G502 been rectified... or at least the cause found (to create a workaround)?
> 
> I currently have a standard G500, but i'm always a fan of having a spare/backup mouse... so if one breaks during the weekend when I want to play, I don't have to wait to buy another one.
> 
> I really love Logitech mice due to their shape and the buttons/scroll wheel fits perfectly with my style of play (binding DPI change to tilt left/right on the scroll wheel). I only use two DPI steps 2200 and 800 and flick between them in FPS games.
> 
> I wanted to get the G502, but i'm a little but off that this inconsistent tracking may render it useless in BF4. Thoughts?


Dont know where you got this inconsistent tracking story, but the G502 has no such flaws.
It has the best sensor on the market, so its simly still the best buy among the 80$ new mouses.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> Dont know where you got this inconsistent tracking story, but the G502 has no such flaws.
> It has the best sensor on the market, so its simly still the best buy among the 80$ new mouses.


Ehh, I wouldn't say that. There are other issues with the mouse that would lead me to choose a different mouse if I had to pick one.


----------



## ChevChelios

the sniper button alone is enough to put me off tbh


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChevChelios*
> 
> the sniper button alone is enough to put me off tbh


tbh, you should try and see if you can reach it with the thumb....depending on your grip it may be absolutely not on your way


----------



## ChevChelios

I know I can reach it and I also know it will be in my thumbs way 24/7, unless I flex my thumb which I don't like to do (at least not all the time)


----------



## 98uk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> Dont know where you got this inconsistent tracking story, but the G502 has no such flaws.
> It has the best sensor on the market, so its simly still the best buy among the 80$ new mouses.


Well, here : http://www.overclock.net/forum/newestpost/1498681

And the threads on the official logitech forums...


----------



## ABeta

After using the DA 2013, and Rival I can easily say those are my two favorite mice to date, basically no acceleration. The logitech G502 has the same quality in terms of tracking if not better, however the build quality is just isn't the Logitech I have known pre "logitech science" marketing. The DPI button placement makes no sense and I often time find myself accidentally clicking the "DPI up" button and also the right click is extremely sensitive, I wish it were stiffer as I often find myself unintentionally clicking it too.


----------



## ~kRon1k~

ok an update for those who care.... just got 2nd rma from logitech, and this mouse has the same issue as the previous where the middle mouse button is bottomed out and doesnt work properly. anyone else with this issue? getting a bit frustrated lol


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ABeta*
> 
> After using the DA 2013, and Rival I can easily say those are my two favorite mice to date, basically no acceleration. The logitech G502 has the same quality in terms of tracking if not better, however the build quality is just isn't the Logitech I have known pre "logitech science" marketing. The DPI button placement makes no sense and I often time find myself accidentally clicking the "DPI up" button and also the right click is extremely sensitive, I wish it were stiffer as I often find myself unintentionally clicking it too.


I think the build quality is MUCH better than the DA2013, it is more solid and uses better quality materials...

i agree with you for the DPI UP button, but is not the placement the problem, but tha fact that the button is not raised compared to the left button,.

actually i cannot understand how you could click accidentally the dpi up....i think the problem is that if you want to push the dpi up, you may end up pushing the left button too.
it remembrs me the problem someone had with the MMO7, they clicked accidentally the action lock button when clicking the left button...i really can't understand how that could happen....
damn banana fingers


----------



## LocutusH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *98uk*
> 
> Well, here : http://www.overclock.net/forum/newestpost/1498681
> 
> And the threads on the official logitech forums...


That exactly happens, when you draw circles in a way, that you dont give attention to you hand position on the mouse. This way you rotate it a bit also around its own z axis, and the sensor of course goes away from the original position, so that the circles does not have the same middle point anymore.

I did this test again now with 3 different DPI settings, and none of them showed drifting circles, when my hand and mouse was positioned in the exact same angle during all the circles.


----------



## Erecshyrinol

*wrong thread*


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> That exactly happens, when you draw circles in a way, that you dont give attention to you hand position on the mouse. This way you rotate it a bit also around its own z axis, and the sensor of course goes away from the original position, so that the circles does not have the same middle point anymore.
> 
> I did this test again now with 3 different DPI settings, and none of them showed drifting circles, when my hand and mouse was positioned in the exact same angle during all the circles.


i tested it and mine isn't affected, i keep the arm firmly in position moving only the wrist and without lifting it

maybe could it be a mousepad issue? was the surface analysis done right? it's a led sensor, then, even having a very good compatibility, on some surfaces it can have a tracking inconsistency


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> That exactly happens, when you draw circles in a way, that you dont give attention to you hand position on the mouse. This way you rotate it a bit also around its own z axis, and the sensor of course goes away from the original position, so that the circles does not have the same middle point anymore.
> 
> I did this test again now with 3 different DPI settings, and none of them showed drifting circles, when my hand and mouse was positioned in the exact same angle during all the circles.


No, it's a timing issue caused by your system. It's called "circle drift". Not all people have it, but some do. It seems to be a combination of mouse, PC, firmware and software.

It's further explained here.


----------



## LocutusH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> No, it's a timing issue caused by your system. It's called "circle drift". Not all people have it, but some do. It seems to be a combination of mouse, PC, firmware and software.
> 
> It's further explained here.


Great. So someone just found another synthetic error, that has bothered no one before, and also will no one ever notice in everyday use of the mouse. But it already grows as a dealbreaker issue for overconcerned people.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> Great. So someone just found another synthetic error, that has bothered no one before, and also will no one ever notice in everyday use of the mouse. But it already grows as a dealbreaker issue for overconcerned people.


Typical OCN









I wouldn't worry about it as long as the mouse feels fine in-game and on the desktop.


----------



## 98uk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> Great. So someone just found another synthetic error, that has bothered no one before, and also will no one ever notice in everyday use of the mouse. But it already grows as a dealbreaker issue for overconcerned people.


What I read was that it was first noticed in game as weird acceleration... Which then led to testing.

And of course people will be concerned... It's not a cheap mouse really...


----------



## Hackshot

It's not the same thing the Engineer is talking about! And it wasn't even me that saw how what he says couldn't be the issue, it was someone who actually believed there was an issue!

Please read *all of my posts* in the "issue's" thread and you ought to see why!

I repeat, *there is no tracking error*. Maybe G502's weight and shape are more prone to create imprecision on your attempts at circular motion, but that would be all!

If you consider not buying a mouse because of that so-called issue, have fun having to discard the Savu, Krait 2013, G100s, G400, Zowie AM, Mico, Kinzu from your options! Or not, beacuse the same thread shows contradictory "test" results on some of those!


----------



## ~kRon1k~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hackshot*
> 
> It's not the same thing the Engineer is talking about! And it wasn't even me that saw how what he says couldn't be the issue, it was someone who actually believed there was an issue!
> 
> Please read *all of my posts* in the "issue's" thread and you ought to see why!
> 
> I repeat, *there is no tracking error*. Maybe G502's weight and shape are more prone to create imprecision on your attempts at circular motion, but that would be all!
> 
> If you consider not buying a mouse because of that so-called issue, have fun having to discard the Savu, Krait 2013, G100s, G400, Zowie AM, Mico, Kinzu from your options! Or not, beacuse the same thread shows contradictory "test" results on some of those!


I have no issues with this mouse except that damn middle click


----------



## shaddy

Just wanted to post what I thought about this mouse after a few days of owning it

I've always used DA's and my previous mice were DA 3.5g -> G500 -> DA 2013 -> G502. My DA 2013 died recently so I decided to go a little different route, after hearing that the G502 has the "best sensor on the market" so far. I went through some threads that talked about inconsistent tracking and such but I decided to go ahead and pick it up from my local Best Buy. I have a weird grip IMO. I palm grip sometimes, but I don't completely wrap my hand around it like some of the pictures I've seen. In some situations I use a claw grip. It switches on the seriousness of the match/game I guess you could say.
My hand is 18cm maybe 19cm from tip to wrist, and I don't find myself hitting any of the buttons 'by accident'. I'm not sure what you guys mean when you say you do that? Are you flailing your fingers around vigorously while playing games?







I guess I'm pretty happy with the mouse. I see a lot of complaining, but complainers are always more vocal than people who are satisfied, which is to be expected.

If anybody is thinking about picking it up I'd give it a shot -- it's pretty solid. I've played many matches of CS:GO and BF4 with it already, with some LoL and FFXIV thrown in and the mouse hasn't given me any unexpected acceleration issues like I've been reading from some people.(Even did some circles in paint) Maybe I got lucky and got a mouse that was part of a newer batch? I'm not sure. I guess I'm sort of a high sensitivity player, I have always used 3500 DPI and 1000Hz as long as I can remember. I feel very accurate with the mouse and it is very comfortable for my grip. The DA was pretty comfortable as well, and felt more casual I guess you could say. I do however love the G502's thumb rest and the way it is grooved for my ring finger on the right side. I can easily maneuver the mouse and pick it up if needed. I do understand though that this would not be for everybody. It works well for me though


----------



## nocebo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaddy*
> 
> I guess I'm sort of a high sensitivity player, I have always used 3500 DPI and 1000Hz as long as I can remember.


Whats your CS go sens if using raw input


----------



## FreeElectron

WHAT ABOUT THE SS 9HD!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> How is the SteelSeries 9HD going to perform with the Logitech G502?
> I want a mouse pad that
> - Has a smooth glide low and low friction
> - Good durability as i am trying to avoid the increased friction after extensive use
> - Easy to clean considering that cleaning shall make it act as if it is new


----------



## TK421

iirc, there's a mousepad that's even faster than the shidenkai.

made in the USA i think?


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> iirc, there's a mousepad that's even faster than the shidenkai.
> 
> made in the USA i think?


You mean that ugly weird shaped metallic orange brown "Teflon cloth coated in teflon" one with the odd name I can never remember?


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaddy*
> 
> Just wanted to post what I thought about this mouse after a few days of owning it
> 
> I've always used DA's and my previous mice were DA 3.5g -> G500 -> DA 2013 -> G502. My DA 2013 died recently so I decided to go a little different route, after hearing that the G502 has the "best sensor on the market" so far. I went through some threads that talked about inconsistent tracking and such but I decided to go ahead and pick it up from my local Best Buy. I have a weird grip IMO. I palm grip sometimes, but I don't completely wrap my hand around it like some of the pictures I've seen. In some situations I use a claw grip. It switches on the seriousness of the match/game I guess you could say.
> My hand is 18cm maybe 19cm from tip to wrist, and I don't find myself hitting any of the buttons 'by accident'. I'm not sure what you guys mean when you say you do that? Are you flailing your fingers around vigorously while playing games?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I'm pretty happy with the mouse. I see a lot of complaining, but complainers are always more vocal than people who are satisfied, which is to be expected.


well, complaining is the new trend...
but after all, i must admit that for me the DA2013 is better in weight and very slightly in shape...but that's all.
the wheel, the material feeling, the button position(except the sniper button that i cannot reach with my grip) and click feeling...and above all the sensor, much snappier than the one on the DA2013

about the shape and weight it's true the DA2013 is better, but not that much, I have the bottom lid removed and
I use 500dpi (it should be 25cm for a 360), and never felt tired after hours of gameplay and it staies firmly in my hand....i would have preferred it slighty wider, but it's very good nonetheless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> WHAT ABOUT THE SS 9HD!


the pad is very very good, you should not go wrong with it.
i suggest to check for the corsair MM600...wider double surface...you get two pads in one


----------



## ChevChelios

is it a good idea to use a plastic pad (such as 9HD) with an optical mouse (G502) though ?


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> You mean that ugly weird shaped metallic orange brown "Teflon cloth coated in teflon" one with the odd name I can never remember?


Name?
For research purposes?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> the pad is very very good, you should not go wrong with it.
> i suggest to check for the corsair MM600...wider double surface...you get two pads in one


Ok. I will look for people's opinions on this one.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChevChelios*
> 
> is it a good idea to use a plastic pad (such as 9HD) with an optical mouse (G502) though ?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Name?
> For research purposes?


I think this is what hes talking about

http://www.amazon.com/CS-Hyde-C4-NGen-Mousepad-Copper/dp/B003DZ16VQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1404678582&sr=8-2&keywords=c4+ngen


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChevChelios*
> 
> is it a good idea to use a plastic pad (such as 9HD) with an optical mouse (G502) though ?


the g502's tracking is very good...it tracks like a laser sensor on my self made satinized glass mat on which only the g700 traked.
mmo7 and DA2013 do not trak at all on it, and in addition the DA2013 do not track even on my maple wood desk.

i think the problem is the gliding capability.
if you like or not hard mats...
i suggested a double sided one so you can chose the one you like most...
for exemple i prefer the control side of the mm600....if i would have bought the SS9HD that is like the speed side of the MM600 I would have found it uncomfortable


----------



## metal571

Works on hard mats. I have a friend with an MM600 and a G502 and it works perfectly.


----------



## semantics

I use my G502 on a 6 year old icemat works great


----------



## shaddy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nocebo*
> 
> Whats your CS go sens if using raw input


Nothing crazy, I use 3.47. Not sure why it's a weird decimal but it's worked for me since the start lol. Probably doesn't make me a very high sensitivity player though, even though I use 3500 DPI and 3.5ish sensitivity. I found that this sensitivity correlates really well with how fast the cursor moves while just doing basic everyday things, which is the sensitivity I aim for in any game.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> well, complaining is the new trend...
> but after all, i must admit that for me the DA2013 is better in weight and very slightly in shape...but that's all.
> the wheel, the material feeling, the button position(except the sniper button that i cannot reach with my grip) and click feeling...and above all the sensor, much snappier than the one on the DA2013
> 
> about the shape and weight it's true the DA2013 is better, but not that much...


I can completely understand that point of view. While the DA2013 is lighter I think I enjoy the G502's weight after some use. I noticed the added weight, but after a few rounds of whatever game I played first, I hardly noticed it. Still feels light but has a solid build quality type feel IMO. I didn't add the extra weight though, as I didn't even do that with my G500.

I do agree with the sniper button, with my grip I do have a reach slightly but it's nothing that would get me killed in any game, at least with my grip.


----------



## meffordh

Does ANYONE get this ridiculous issue where once every 30 minutes to an hour the mouse sensor goes completely haywire and malfunctions and points your cursor straight into the air at a 90 degree vs. the horizontal surface you're standing on? This **** is ridiculous and happens in clutch times. I've read about it sparingly with no official word from logitech, tried every setting I know about (i.e. rawinput on / off, sensitivity, onboard vs. off / default vs. other tuned pads and surfaces of varying types.

It's ridiculous that the best sensor in the world would have this type of problem and it not be talked about a bit more than I'm seeing, although perhaps people are trying ot turn a blind eye to this with the 'there is no problem' type comments. I've bought 5 mouse pads and tested on two computers, it still happens.

What settings am I missing or permutations are left out that I could try that could help guys, please, this mouse is so nice except it causes you to throw games?


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaddy*
> 
> Nothing crazy, I use 3.47. Not sure why it's a weird decimal but it's worked for me since the start lol. Probably doesn't make me a very high sensitivity player though, even though I use 3500 DPI and 3.5ish sensitivity. I found that this sensitivity correlates really well with how fast the cursor moves while just doing basic everyday things, which is the sensitivity I aim for in any game.


3.5 sens at 3500 DPI is insanely high for CS. That's like 3 cm for a 360 lol.


----------



## Zero4549

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> I think this is what hes talking about
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/CS-Hyde-C4-NGen-Mousepad-Copper/dp/B003DZ16VQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1404678582&sr=8-2&keywords=c4+ngen


Yeah I think it was the older version of that, when they were still selling it exclusively off their circa 1995 geocities-esque website. Used to be a weird jelly bean shape if I recall,


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zero4549*
> 
> You mean that ugly weird shaped metallic orange brown "Teflon cloth coated in teflon" one with the odd name I can never remember?


Not that, they have a website on their own and it shows the pad ok being run over by a truck.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *meffordh*
> 
> It's ridiculous that the best sensor in the world would have this type of problem and it not be talked about a bit more than I'm seeing, although perhaps people are trying ot turn a blind eye to this with the 'there is no problem' type comments.


Or maybe the issue is not a widespread one. Did you get in contact with Logitech support?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaddy*
> 
> Nothing crazy, I use 3.47. Probably doesn't make me a very high sensitivity player though, even though I use 3500 DPI and 3.5ish sensitivity.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*


LOL. Yeah that's way, way, way too high.


----------



## shaddy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> LOL. Yeah that's way, way, way too high.


Haha yeah it is high for FPS games after doing some comparisons... Over the last couple weeks I've been toning down my sensitivity slowly. Right now I'm at 3500 DPI with 1.2 in game. 6/11 windows. However I don't have a large desk to have the luxury of running a huge mouse pad, not that I want to anyways. I see some people running 400-800 DPI and that's a lot of moving just to turn 90 degrees IMO, just feels uncomfortable.
What DPI do you guys use with the G502? I've always been a higher sensitivity player in any game.. Right now at 1.2 sensitivity it feels somewhat slower but I am slowly getting better control on my aiming. I'm not a competitive player by any means I just play for fun.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaddy*
> 
> Haha yeah it is high for FPS games after doing some comparisons... Over the last couple weeks I've been toning down my sensitivity slowly. Right now I'm at 3500 DPI with 1.2 in game. 6/11 windows. However I don't have a large desk to have the luxury of running a huge mouse pad, not that I want to anyways. I see some people running 400-800 DPI and that's a lot of moving just to turn 90 degrees IMO, just feels uncomfortable.
> What DPI do you guys use with the G502? I've always been a higher sensitivity player in any game.. Right now at 1.2 sensitivity it feels somewhat slower but I am slowly getting better control on my aiming. I'm not a competitive player by any means I just play for fun.


"Low" is about 1.5 at 400 CPI, typical is around 2-2.5 I believe and high is anything 3.0+, all at 400 CPI. 3500 is insanely high lol. Low sens will feel uncomfortable at first, you have to warm up every time, or at least I do, before playing seriously or you can wreck your wrist. The advantage it gives you over other players is well worth it for me at least.


----------



## shaddy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> "Low" is about 1.5 at 400 CPI, typical is around 2-2.5 I believe and high is anything 3.0+, all at 400 CPI. 3500 is insanely high lol. Low sens will feel uncomfortable at first, you have to warm up every time, or at least I do, before playing seriously or you can wreck your wrist. The advantage it gives you over other players is well worth it for me at least.


Gah that just sounds so weird. I guess I'll continue to tone down my sensitivity little by little.I'm not sure I could go that low though. I only have about 8 inches on my desk where my mouse pad goes that I can utilize lol as apposed to people using a QcK+ or something of that size. Do you not feel weird after playing a match then going to something else such as the desktop or an MMO? Or do you use similar sensitivities for them all?


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaddy*
> 
> Haha yeah it is high for FPS games after doing some comparisons... Over the last couple weeks I've been toning down my sensitivity slowly. Right now I'm at 3500 DPI with 1.2 in game. 6/11 windows. However I don't have a large desk to have the luxury of running a huge mouse pad, not that I want to anyways. I see some people running 400-800 DPI and that's a lot of moving just to turn 90 degrees IMO, just feels uncomfortable.
> What DPI do you guys use with the G502? I've always been a higher sensitivity player in any game.. Right now at 1.2 sensitivity it feels somewhat slower but I am slowly getting better control on my aiming. I'm not a competitive player by any means I just play for fun.


By going from 3.5 sens to 1.2 sens, you went from 3.4cm/360 to 10cm/360.

High sensitivity (depending on the game - quake has a higher useable sensitivity than CS) in counter-strike is around 24cm/360 to 37cm/360. Anything lower than 24cm/360 is really high. And anything higher than 55cm/360 is really low.

Your sensitivity is insane. At 24cm/360 you wouldn't have to move your wrist at all to do a 180 or more. You could use a standard/small mouse pad with that sens.

http://konr.co.uk/mouse/


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaddy*
> 
> Gah that just sounds so weird. I guess I'll continue to tone down my sensitivity little by little.I'm not sure I could go that low though. I only have about 8 inches on my desk where my mouse pad goes that I can utilize lol as apposed to people using a QcK+ or something of that size. Do you not feel weird after playing a match then going to something else such as the desktop or an MMO? Or do you use similar sensitivities for them all?


People using too high of a sensitivity is probably the biggest thing holding anyone back. There's an acceptable range and then there's something like what you're doing where no human can be precise at. As good as you think you are at your current sensitivity you will be much better with something lower. Going too low can also be bad though.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> People using too high of a sensitivity is probably the biggest thing holding anyone back. There's an acceptable range and then there's something like what you're doing where no human can be precise at. As good as you think you are at your current sensitivity you will be much better with something lower. Going too low can also be bad though.


Essentially this.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaddy*
> 
> Gah that just sounds so weird. I guess I'll continue to tone down my sensitivity little by little.I'm not sure I could go that low though. I only have about 8 inches on my desk where my mouse pad goes that I can utilize lol as apposed to people using a QcK+ or something of that size. Do you not feel weird after playing a match then going to something else such as the desktop or an MMO? Or do you use similar sensitivities for them all?


I use a Puretrak Talent and Avior 7000 with 70cm/360, which is about 1.5 at 400 CPI. On the desktop I switch to 1600 CPI though, that's a comfortable CPI for me for desktops at 1080p. Also when I do play, I only play FPS, so it never feels weird to use such a low sens


----------



## shaddy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> Your sensitivity is insane. At 24cm/360 you wouldn't have to move your wrist at all to do a 180 or more. You could use a standard/small mouse pad with that sens.
> http://konr.co.uk/mouse/


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> People using too high of a sensitivity is probably the biggest thing holding anyone back. There's an acceptable range and then there's something like what you're doing where no human can be precise at. As good as you think you are at your current sensitivity you will be much better with something lower. Going too low can also be bad though.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I use a Puretrak Talent and Avior 7000 with 70cm/360, which is about 1.5 at 400 CPI. On the desktop I switch to 1600 CPI though, that's a comfortable CPI for me for desktops at 1080p. Also when I do play, I only play FPS, so it never feels weird to use such a low sens


Thanks for the quick replies guys! Really helpful. I guess I've been using my mice badly since as long as I can remember







Ah well learn something new everyday. I'm currently testing 1800 dpi @ 1.8 in game. I'm able to do a full 360 from one end to another on my pad and it feels comfortable.. But I guess it's still high lol. Is 1800 a weird DPI? Is there an "optimum" dpi for the g502? Thanks again.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaddy*
> 
> Thanks for the quick replies guys! Really helpful. I guess I've been using my mice badly since as long as I can remember
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah well learn something new everyday. I'm currently testing 1800 dpi @ 1.8 in game. I'm able to do a full 360 from one end to another on my pad and it feels comfortable.. But I guess it's still high lol. Is 1800 a weird DPI? Is there an "optimum" dpi for the g502? Thanks again.


The lower the CPI you can get away with, the better. I discussed this a bit in various threads with the most knowledgeable guys on this forum, and in my own experience on the most modern sensors that have lots of native steps, the lower you can set it the better. 400 is a good setting for the kinds of sensitivity people commonly use in CS, but for the G502 all the steps *should* perform the same.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Essentially this.
> I use a Puretrak Talent and Avior 7000 with 70cm/360, which is about 1.5 at 400 CPI. On the desktop I switch to 1600 CPI though, that's a comfortable CPI for me for desktops at 1080p. Also when I do play, I only play FPS, so it never feels weird to use such a low sens


are you a sniper/camper?

sensivity depends on the game and game style.
if you play lots of low range combat, that sensivity is unusable.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> are you a sniper/camper?
> 
> sensivity depends on the game and game style.
> if you play lots of low range combat, that sensivity is unusable.


not really... like in tf2 scouts have the lowest average sensitivity and they're also close quarters combat specialists.

I would say the main factors are how frequently you need to quickly turn 180 degrees and how large your mouspad is. I personally think being able to do a 180 without lifting up my mouse is more important then the increased accuracy i would get from lowering my sensitivity further. If you have a very small mouspad, that might not be the best criteria, but for me, using the same massive mouspad metal uses, it works.

I think metals' estimates for recommended sensitivity are a little low. Occasionally you see top tier players with sensitivities lower then 50cm per 360, but the impression i've gotten is there are probably more people using a higher sensitivity then 20cm/360 then are using a lower sensitivity then 50cm/360 at the invite level. I think 20cm-50cm is desirable if you have a large mouspad. If you don't, then higher sensitivities can be justifiable. I use 1.55 ingame sensitivity at 800 dpi for 33.5cm/360. Beyond that point i start thinking its difficult to justify lowering the sensitivity.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> are you a sniper/camper?
> 
> sensivity depends on the game and game style.
> if you play lots of low range combat, that sensivity is unusable.


LOL yeah you have no idea about FPS gaming. I'm an aggressive AR player and I do extremely well.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> not really... like in tf2 scouts have the lowest average sensitivity and they're also close quarters combat specialists.


but I think we are talking about 30/40cm for a 360....
70cm for a 360 is insane, you need to move your arm from the far left of your body to your far right.
you must reposition the mouse when you make a turn


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> LOL yeah you have no idea about FPS gaming. I'm an aggressive AR player and I do extremely well.


really eager to watch your gameplay video.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> but I think we are talking about 30/40cm for a 360....
> 70cm for a 360 is insane, you need to move your arm from the far left of your body to your far right.
> you must reposition the mouse when you make a turn


no, there have been invite scouts in TF2 that were even lower then 70cm/360


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> no, there have been invite scouts in TF2 that were even lower then 70cm/360


in close combat you don't need precision, the enemy is near and very easy to aim even with high sensivity.
repositioning the mouse makes you loose precious milliseconds.
i really do not think that that sensivity is good for that kind of gameplay.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> really eager to watch your gameplay video.


Old example. 




No I'm not a professional, sorry to burst your bubble. Just above average.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> in close combat you don't need precision, the enemy is near and very easy to aim even with high sensivity.
> repositioning the mouse makes you loose precious milliseconds.
> i really do not think that that sensivity is good for that kind of gameplay.


i would chalk that up to poor shooter design if you don't gain benefit from being precise at short range.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Old example.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No I'm not a professional, sorry to burst your bubble. Just above average.


thanks i'll watch it!

this is mine, where i used 20cm/360 with the DA2103 + G240


----------



## hza

Other than sensitivity being preference you're talking bs as usual.


----------



## Coletrain

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *shaddy*
> 
> Thanks for the quick replies guys! Really helpful. I guess I've been using my mice badly since as long as I can remember
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ah well learn something new everyday. I'm currently testing 1800 dpi @ 1.8 in game. I'm able to do a full 360 from one end to another on my pad and it feels comfortable.. But I guess it's still high lol. Is 1800 a weird DPI? Is there an "optimum" dpi for the g502? Thanks again.


I personally set my DPI to what I find comfortable for desktop use and then adjust my game sensitivity from there... 1800 is exactly what I use.

For example in CS:GO I use a sensitivity of 0.7 which equates to about 33cm/360 @ 1800 DPI. Some people advocate for maintaining a 1:1 pixel movement ratio (by setting your in-game sensitivity to 1.0 and using specific DPI settings for different games), but I seriously doubt you can actually notice the difference.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> in close combat you don't need precision, the enemy is near and very easy to aim even with high sensivity.
> repositioning the mouse makes you loose precious milliseconds.
> i really do not think that that sensivity is good for that kind of gameplay.


You still need precision, at least in good shooter games. What's more important is that you get better muscle memory. And that is needed for twitch aiming up close. And if you use your forearm you can still be very quick.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Other than sensitivity being preference you're talking bs as usual.


as usual who?


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> You still need precision, at least in good shooter games. What's more important is that you get better muscle memory. And that is needed for twitch aiming up close. And if you use your forearm you can still be very quick.


except for the muscle memory, it's true you need precision...but if you are not able to aim someone very near with even mid-low sensivity, you simply lack aiming skills.


----------



## hza

The people who believe there's a general rule.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> except for the muscle memory, it's true you need precision...but if you are not able to aim someone very near with even mid-low sensivity, you simply lack aiming skills.


70 cm/360 is not really extremely low. Only problem is when you want to to a 360... for those flashy game ending kills in CoD. #360NoScopeSWAG


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> except for the muscle memory, it's true you need precision...but if you are not able to aim someone very near with even mid-low sensivity, you simply lack aiming skills.


Low sens is just more consistent for situations like that. That's the main reason why many top level scouts used low sens. Combine that with strafe aiming and you're set.


----------



## Sencha

What Ino said.

Here's someone using 90cm/360 in TF2






Its pure preference. I use 60cm/360 and its benefited most in close range engagements. No over shooting, and can track someone jumping over me = perfect for me.

I played for 5 years at 30cm/360.....I'm so much better now its insane. Just whatever suits.


----------



## Ino.

Also found this video of a guy playing Quakelive at 70 cm/360° (a game where most pros don't even go that low, and if they do they use acceldrivers like mew)




Just to show you how it looks.

And here is jika, a pro BF3 player who was/is famous for his accuracy. I think he plays at 80 cm/360°


----------



## Sencha

Yeah its 80cm/360 for Jika.


----------



## LocutusH

And probably 640x480 resolution...


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> And probably 640x480 resolution...


Why would it make any difference?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Why would it make any difference?


It wouldn't. If you count your 360 in cm, then the screen resolution doesn't matter at all.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> It wouldn't. If you count your 360 in cm, then the screen resolution doesn't matter at all.


I know, that's why I asked him what he ment about it.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> I know, that's why I asked him what he ment about it.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> Why would it make any difference?


I think he was referring to the video where you could see that his resolution is lower. It's actually 800x600, which makes sense on a CRT.


----------



## Blashyrkh

but i do not say that noone plays with very low sense, it's just that it depends on the game and game style.
as you stated, quake players use acceleration....
in this forum you get killed if you say you use acceleration.

I think that lowering too much the sensivity is not the be all and end all.
there are players that can play very well with relatively high sensivity....it's true you must try to search yourself, but playing at 90cm/360 will never make you a top player


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> 70 cm/360 is not really extremely low. Only problem is when you want to to a 360... for those flashy game ending kills in CoD. #360NoScopeSWAG


lol, this.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> What Ino said.
> 
> Here's someone using 90cm/360 in TF2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its pure preference. I use 60cm/360 and its benefited most in close range engagements. No over shooting, and can track someone jumping over me = perfect for me.
> 
> I played for 5 years at 30cm/360.....I'm so much better now its insane. Just whatever suits.


This has been my experience as well. Lowering sens is an addiction until it gets just way too low. 70cm is about as low as I'll ever go.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Also found this video of a guy playing Quakelive at 70 cm/360° (a game where most pros don't even go that low, and if they do they use acceldrivers like mew)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just to show you how it looks.
> 
> And here is jika, a pro BF3 player who was/is famous for his accuracy. I think he plays at 80 cm/360°


Nice examples. I think snipers could really benefit from slower than 70cm for sure.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> but i do not say that noone plays with very low sense, it's just that it depends on the game and game style.
> as you stated, quake players use acceleration....
> in this forum you get killed if you say you use acceleration.
> 
> I think that lowering too much the sensivity is not the be all and end all.
> there are players that can play very well with relatively high sensivity....it's true you must try to search yourself, but playing at 90cm/360 will never make you a top player


You are assuming way too much. Acceleration is a preference, inconsistent acceleration which is a sensor problem is not something we want. There is a difference. Also, no one implied that 90cm makes you better...it depends on what role you're playing in what game with what style. It can and will benefit you, especially snipers, in many situations.

So to sum it all up, I'm only following in the footsteps of many other actual pro gamers with my sensitivity because far more engagements benefit from that low sens with a large mat than a higher sensitivity when it comes to first person shooters. Your coarse muscle memory will always be more effective.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> lol, this.
> This has been my experience as well. Lowering sens is an addiction until it gets just way too low. 70cm is about as low as I'll ever go.
> Nice examples. I think snipers could really benefit from slower than 70cm for sure.
> *You are assuming way too much. Acceleration is a preference, inconsistent acceleration which is a sensor problem is not something we want.* There is a difference. Also, no one implied that 90cm makes you better...it depends on what role you're playing in what game with what style. It can and will benefit you, especially snipers, in many situations.
> 
> So to sum it all up, I'm only following in the footsteps of many other actual pro gamers with my sensitivity because far more engagements benefit from that low sens with a large mat than a higher sensitivity when it comes to first person shooters. Your coarse muscle memory will always be more effective.


^^


----------



## hza

Pros wil kick your ass with their inconsistent Xais, G500s, Avior 8200s, Kone XTDs, blas vs. your beloved opticals.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Pros wil kick your ass with their inconsistent Xais, G500s, Avior 8200s, Kone XTDs, blas vs. your beloved opticals.


Pros have a level of talent and skill that pushes well past the limitations of their hardware. What mere mortals such as myself use for a crutch to make us consistently better is hidden in a professional gamer, as the margins are not as great. An example is Korean SC pros. In the early 2000's most Korean SC professionals were using Logitech minis. Laptop opticals with a snail's perfect control speed. Absolutely nothing in the world that you could put into their hands would make them better or worse than they already were, as made clear when Razer, Steelseries, and Zowie entered their market. Their skill was well beyond what small obstacle hardware flaws could provide. This is really evident in the sponsor rich professional gaming field that exists today. Pros will swap new hardware as their sponsor changes. It takes them a week to acclimate and they're off and running.

That isn't the case with people like me... I need all the help I can get to be decent. ALL THE HELP! If your skill cap isn't high enough, you utilize gear to push you further. It works in all aspect of sports. I was a sponsored speedball player in college. I went from using an Autococker that was a manual pneumatic marker to an Intimadator, which was an electro-pneumatic marker and our win rate went through the roof and our game time dropped dramatically. One piece of equipment made a difference in a middle of the road team. At that same time, one of the best professional teams in the country was sponsored by WGP. Know what they made? Autococker... The same marker that was holding me back. Same story could be told about golf, baseball, mountain biking, and motorcycle racing.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Pros wil kick your ass with their inconsistent Xais, G500s, Avior 8200s, Kone XTDs, blas vs. your beloved opticals.


Posts like this don't add anything to the discussion.

This is a mouse forum where we recommend mice without flaws. I don't care how good pros are. You could have said "bread tastes good with butter" and it would have been just as useful as saying "pros are good with lesser hardware too." There's nothing wrong about chasing for better mice, that benefits everyone.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I think he was referring to the video where you could see that his resolution is lower. It's actually 800x600, which makes sense on a CRT.


But that doesn't change his sensitivty anyway ?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *daav1d*
> 
> But that doesn't change his sensitivty anyway ?


Of course not. Tbh I never quite understood why many pros use low res even with TFTs. Habit?


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Pros have a level of talent and skill that pushes well past the limitations of their hardware. What mere mortals such as myself use for a crutch to make us consistently better is hidden in a professional gamer, as the margins are not as great. An example is Korean SC pros. In the early 2000's most Korean SC professionals were using Logitech minis. Laptop opticals with a snail's perfect control speed. Absolutely nothing in the world that you could put into their hands would make them better or worse than they already were, as made clear when Razer, Steelseries, and Zowie entered their market. Their skill was well beyond what small obstacle hardware flaws could provide. This is really evident in the sponsor rich professional gaming field that exists today. Pros will swap new hardware as their sponsor changes. It takes them a week to acclimate and they're off and running.
> 
> That isn't the case with people like me... I need all the help I can get to be decent. ALL THE HELP! If your skill cap isn't high enough, you utilize gear to push you further. It works in all aspect of sports. I was a sponsored speedball player in college. I went from using an Autococker that was a manual pneumatic marker to an Intimadator, which was an electro-pneumatic marker and our win rate went through the roof and our game time dropped dramatically. One piece of equipment made a difference in a middle of the road team. At that same time, one of the best professional teams in the country was sponsored by WGP. Know what they made? Autococker... The same marker that was holding me back. Same story could be told about golf, baseball, mountain biking, and motorcycle racing.


I agree and that's what I'm saying basically. I mean only faulty gear should give you a disadvantage over victory or loss. 9500/9800 accel is not that flaw you guys are talking about. Some people might say something like "since I use optical sensor I got better" or the exact contrary. What if that guy got better because of different shape, material or just more comfort of the optical mouse he switched to? For me it always was like that. Comfort to my hand had greater impact on my gameplay than any sensor I've tried (except Kinzu v1's sensor). I'm sure there are enough people who think or feel the same.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Posts like this don't add anything to the discussion.
> 
> This is a mouse forum where we recommend mice without flaws. I don't care how good pros are. You could have said "bread tastes good with butter" and it would have been just as useful as saying "pros are good with lesser hardware too." There's nothing wrong about chasing for better mice, that benefits everyone.


And why are you always saying contrary to what you just stated here?.

My point is that inconsistent accel (let's limit it to accel) from 9500s and 9800s and whatever is not something that will make you lose. All of you guys could have been a progamer, if you had the right circumstances at the right time. Being professional doesn't only mean hitting all the shots 100 % all the time. Just a meaningless example: I played vs. cArn in one of those "play vs. fans" something on aim_map once. Of course he didn't take it serious, but I lost just 7:10 or so. Probably I could have won vs. him, if I didn't had over 100 ms latency (server was in Sweden and not halfway between Sweden and Austria), I don't know. I just mean stop with that "optical being so much above laser" or "laser has no chance vs. optical" things. Realize that sensor performance comes after the individual and not contrary. Not trying to troll you guys. Well, maybe sometimes I do.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> I agree and that's what I'm saying basically. I mean only faulty gear should give you a disadvantage over victory or loss. 9500/9800 accel is not that flaw you guys are talking about. Some people might say something like "since I use optical sensor I got better" or the exact contrary. What if that guy got better because of different shape, material or just more comfort of the optical mouse he switched to? For me it always was like that. Comfort to my hand had greater impact on my gameplay than any sensor I've tried (except Kinzu v1's sensor). I'm sure there are enough people who think or feel the same.
> And why are you always saying contrary to what you just stated here?.
> 
> My point is that inconsistent accel (let's limit it to accel) from 9500s and 9800s and whatever is not something that will make you lose. All of you guys could have been a progamer, if you had the right circumstances at the right time. Being professional doesn't only mean hitting all the shots 100 % all the time. Just a meaningless example: I played vs. cArn in one of those "play vs. fans" something on aim_map once. Of course he didn't take it serious, but I lost just 7:10 or so. Probably I could have won vs. him, if I didn't had over 100 ms latency (server was in Sweden and not halfway between Sweden and Austria), I don't know. I just mean stop with that "optical being so much above laser" or "laser has no chance vs. optical" things. Realize that sensor performance comes after the individual and not contrary. Not trying to troll you guys. Well, maybe sometimes I do.


I'm just trying to make people's lives easier by making them aware of the flaw.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> You are assuming way too much. Acceleration is a preference, inconsistent acceleration which is a sensor problem is not something we want.


i don't think so.
one of the first things that people around here says, is to switch off any kind of acceleration to gain 1:1 mouse movement.

are we really talking about preferences here?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> i don't think so.
> one of the first things that people around here says, is to switch off any kind of acceleration to gain 1:1 mouse movement.
> 
> are we really talking about preferences here?


Yep. Many Quake professionals use software acceleration. There's nothing wrong with it, but for people who have no preference we always recommend turning off acceleration first.


----------



## ~kRon1k~

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Posts like this don't add anything to the discussion.
> 
> This is a mouse forum where we recommend mice without flaws. I don't care how good pros are. You could have said "bread tastes good with butter" and it would have been just as useful as saying "pros are good with lesser hardware too." There's nothing wrong about chasing for better mice, that benefits everyone.


the g502 has made me the greatest pc gamer EVER. /thread


----------



## end0rphine

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *~kRon1k~*
> 
> the g502 has made me the greatest pc gamer EVER. /thread


Alright we get it mousef...

Wait a minute...


----------



## Erecshyrinol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Yep. Many Quake professionals use software acceleration. There's nothing wrong with it, but for people who have no preference we always recommend turning off acceleration first.


It makes sense for Quake because acceleration can be fine tuned down to every last detail so it's 100% predictable and controllable. Compare that to a coarse on/off option that most games offer.

As for the discussion, I'll mirror the sentiment that it doesn't matter whatsoever what pros use. The fact that they're simply better at their chosen game aside, here's another thought -- some of them don't really think about gear. Having a perfect, 1:1 flaw-free optical sensor could actually improve their play in the long run, but they could be unaware of it. They will still stomp the opposition through raw skill. There's no reason for us to get used to flawed gear just because pros did. Why not demand a completely transparent sensor from our mice? As long as it's not an unhealthy obsession, it's only a positive thing.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erecshyrinol*
> 
> It makes sense for Quake because acceleration can be fine tuned down to every last detail so it's 100% predictable and controllable. Compare that to a coarse on/off option that most games offer.
> 
> As for the discussion, I'll mirror the sentiment that it doesn't matter whatsoever what pros use. The fact that they're simply better at their chosen game aside, here's another thought -- some of them don't really think about gear. Having a perfect, 1:1 flaw-free optical sensor could actually improve their play in the long run, but they could be unaware of it. They will still stomp the opposition through raw skill. There's no reason for us to get used to flawed gear just because pros did. Why not demand a completely transparent sensor from our mice? As long as it's not an unhealthy obsession, it's only a positive thing.


This is what I was trying to say.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Posts like this don't add anything to the discussion.
> 
> This is a mouse forum where we recommend mice without flaws. I don't care how good pros are. You could have said "bread tastes good with butter" and it would have been just as useful as saying "pros are good with lesser hardware too." There's nothing wrong about chasing for better mice, that benefits everyone.


Exactly.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erecshyrinol*
> 
> It makes sense for Quake because acceleration can be fine tuned down to every last detail so it's 100% predictable and controllable. Compare that to a coarse on/off option that most games offer.
> 
> As for the discussion, I'll mirror the sentiment that it doesn't matter whatsoever what pros use. The fact that they're simply better at their chosen game aside, here's another thought -- some of them don't really think about gear. Having a perfect, 1:1 flaw-free optical sensor could actually improve their play in the long run, but they could be unaware of it. They will still stomp the opposition through raw skill. There's no reason for us to get used to flawed gear just because pros did. Why not demand a completely transparent sensor from our mice? As long as it's not an unhealthy obsession, it's only a positive thing.


Another perfect explanation. hza continues to post the same irrelevant fact that doesn't invalidate the flaw being discussed.


----------



## kkit0410

So, after 160pages of discussion.
Is the G502 have the "Inconsistent Acceleration"?
Is it the driver problems? or Sensor? anyone have conclusion about it?

I just bought G502 last month, my last mice is G600 and G500
It is way better and smoother than G600, same weight and smaller.
Haven't used any other lighter and smaller mice.. Both Zowie and Mionix are not available

Just curious about the "Problems"..

Sorry for my bad English


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkit0410*
> 
> So, after 160pages of discussion.
> Is the G502 have the "Inconsistent Acceleration"?
> Is it the driver problems? or Sensor? anyone have conclusion about it?
> 
> I just bought G502 last month, my last mice is G600 and G500
> It is way better and smoother than G600, same weight and smaller.
> Haven't used any other lighter and smaller mice.. Both Zowie and Mionix are not available
> 
> Just curious about the "Problems"..
> 
> Sorry for my bad English


No inconsistent acceleration, no acceleration at all actually. The sensor is an optical sensor by the way and has no relation to the 9500/9800 architecture, at least in terms of having any kind of inconsistent tracking issues.


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> No inconsistent acceleration, no acceleration at all actually. The sensor is an optical sensor by the way and has no relation to the 9500/9800 architecture, at least in terms of having any kind of inconsistent tracking issues.


and it traks on glass mats too...it will be the best sensor for a very long time


----------



## Erecshyrinol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> and it traks on glass mats too...it will be the best sensor for a very long time


By the sound of it, I can't actually imagine a better sensor. What would you actually need from a "better" one?


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erecshyrinol*
> 
> By the sound of it, I can't actually imagine a better sensor. What would you actually need from a "better" one?


virtually nothing...maybe more DPI for 10K monitors in the 2050 lol

I think that, even if it seems to be flawless, there is a small margin of improvement in tracking precision.
maybe a total absence of jitter on all surfaces, or circle drifting or any other issue that human tests can't even catch


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Exactly.
> Another perfect explanation. hza continues to post the same irrelevant fact that doesn't invalidate the flaw being discussed.


Yeah, derp... Believe what you want. A flaw is something that hinders you from using the mouse at all. That's my definition of flaws. I don't tell anyone to avoid opticals or lasers. I just say it's not the worst thing in the world, but you always refuse to understand what I mean and keep to interpret whatever you want instead. And btw, without people like bullveyr, dems, skylit, bla you all wouldn't even know things like inconsistent accel existed and wouldn't complain about it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blashyrkh*
> 
> virtually nothing...maybe more DPI for 10K monitors in the 2050 lol
> 
> I think that, even if it seems to be flawless, there is a small margin of improvement in tracking precision.
> maybe a total absence of jitter on all surfaces, or circle drifting or any other issue that human tests can't even catch


I hope you're joking because otherwise we get closer to the point (I call it prediction) of a (more) perfect mouse/sensor where people would start to complain about the package because they can't find any flaws.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Yeah, derp... Believe what you want. A flaw is something that hinders you from using the mouse at all.That's my definition of flaws.


A flaw means an imperfection, not a completely unusable product. Inconsistent accel is a flaw and everyone that posts asking for advice should be made aware of it. Your definition is wrong.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> And btw, without people like bullveyr, dems, skylit, bla you all wouldn't even know things like inconsistent accel existed and wouldn't complain about it.


Wrong again, you really have no idea what you're talking about. I felt the accel on the first 9500 sensor mouse that I used. I might not have known exactly what made the sensor feel like ass but it was immediately noticeable. I tried to make excuses and adapt to it but this isn't something that was possible or should it be something that we should need to do. After testing other mice that shared the sensor and learning more, it was made very clear that the acceleration curve was what was bothering me about the sensor.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> I hope you're joking because otherwise we get closer to the point (I call it prediction) of a (more) perfect mouse/sensor where people would start to complain about the package because they can't find any flaws.


We aren't in a position where the only thing to complain about is packaging. That would be a fine day indeed but since that's not reality you're just making more irrelevant statements.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> A flaw means an imperfection, not a completely unusable product. Inconsistent accel is a flaw and everyone that posts asking for advice should be made aware of it. Your definition is wrong.
> Wrong again, you really have no idea what you're talking about. I felt the accel on the first 9500 sensor mouse that I used. I might not have known exactly what made the sensor feel like ass but it was immediately noticeable. I tried to make excuses and adapt to it but this isn't something that was possible or should it be something that we should need to do. After testing other mice that shared the sensor and learning more, it was made very clear that the acceleration curve was what was bothering me about the sensor.
> We aren't in a position where the only thing to complain about is packaging. That would be a fine day indeed but since that's not reality you're just making more irrelevant statements.


Of course you felt a difference/was noticeable for you. It's just you say or seem to say it'sa 100 % no-go for everyone. And again you interpret what you want. I think you understand the difference between "close" and "closer", don't you? Never said there are any perfect mice or other peripherals. Not even G502 since its heavier weight, shape, etc. aren't something everyone will prefer or like. There always will be things that some people will like/dislike/love/hate/etc. You can't make everyone 100 % happy.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> [...] A flaw is something that hinders you from using the mouse at all. That's my definition of flaws. [...]


This English word also gets used for minor, superficial stuff like when you buy a bicycle frame and there's a scratch in the paint.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



I basically want to say that it's also used like "Schönheitsfehler", not just to describe that something is totally broken.


----------



## hza

Yes, thx. I know what you mean. I just don't see it that way (such a big flaw) because it doesn't affect all people the same way, pros or non-pros. I agree with imperfection, that's how I see it basically. I just don't think it's so much trouble for all people.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Yes, thx. I know what you mean. I just don't see it that way (such a big flaw) because it doesn't affect all people the same way, pros or non-pros. I agree with imperfection, that's how I see it basically. I just don't think it's so much trouble for all people.


It's not trouble for all people, I mean it is there no matter what you do with the mouse but the only time I recommend laser mice to people is if they insist on using hard mats, playing no first person shooters, and/or have exhausted other optical options and don't like the shape of any of them.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Yes, thx. I know what you mean. I just don't see it that way (such a big flaw) because it doesn't affect all people the same way, pros or non-pros. I agree with imperfection, that's how I see it basically. I just don't think it's so much trouble for all people.


But why even deal with it when you can choose a similarly shaped mouse that doesn't suffer from this flaw? It will bother everyone even a little bit. You mention things like the grip being more important but that supports my point of recommending people away from the 9500/9800 sensor. It's not like you have to buy a completely differently shaped mouse to get a decent optical alternative anymore.

If someone is interested in buying an ambidextrous laser mouse such as the Sensei, M65, Avior 8200 or the Taipan then they should first look at mice like the Zowie FK1, M45 or the Avior 7000.

If someone is interested in buying a palm grip laser mouse such as the G500s or the Naos 8200 then they should first look at mice like the G502, Rival or Naos 7000.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> It's not trouble for all people, I mean it is there no matter what you do with the mouse but the only time I recommend laser mice to people is if they insist on using hard mats, playing no first person shooters, and/or have exhausted other optical options and don't like the shape of any of them.


Again, metal. There is no general rule. I know some people (G500) who play very well. When I was playing 1.6 (till 2012) mainly I also used a Xai and G500. You can't tell me I played only versus noobs and/or people with broken mice because I was not that bad in that game (no world elite ofc). Hell, I even know some weirdos who play "godlike" with a Lachesis. And that's really the top weirdness in all aspects. It's OK to tell people what kind of thing he or she may encounter when he or she buys this or that, but please stop your "A is complete garbage because I cannot handle it as good as B", because that's nothing else than bs. People should be aware of things like inconsistent accel. Those 5 % could mean more to me than to you or contrary. I hope you understand it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> But why even deal with it when you can choose a similarly shaped mouse that doesn't suffer from this flaw? It will bother everyone even a little bit. You mention things like the grip being more important but that supports my point of recommending people away from the 9500/9800 sensor. It's not like you have to buy a completely differently shaped mouse to get a decent optical alternative anymore.
> 
> If someone is interested in buying an ambidextrous laser mouse such as the Sensei, M65, Avior 8200 or the Taipan then they should first look at mice like the Zowie FK1, M45 or the Avior 7000.
> 
> If someone is interested in buying a palm grip laser mouse such as the G500s or the Naos 8200 then they should first look at mice like the G502, Rival or Naos 7000.


Yes, but similarly shaped mice are still not the same. For example I used MX518 mice for a very long time, more than everything else together (very probably). However, I still like the G500 shape more, a lot more even though they seem very similar, right? And personally I don't care so much, if it's optical or laser. It's not like I hate otpical or something. I get your point though. Still, laser won't make you lose more than you would do yourself. It can bother you, but it doesn't have to bother me. Kinzu v1's sensor was really a mess for me. I wasn't able to adapt to it, not even a little. I'm sure I would have been able to, if I would have tried for more than just a week. Believe me, skill mainly comes from you, just a little bit from your mouse.


----------



## daav1d

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Again, metal. There is no general rule. I know some people (G500) who play very well. When I was playing 1.6 (till 2012) mainly I also used a Xai and G500. You can't tell me I played only versus noobs and/or people with broken mice because I was not that bad in that game (no world elite ofc). Hell, I even know some weirdos who play "godlike" with a Lachesis. And that's really the top weirdness in all aspects. It's OK to tell people what kind of thing he or she may encounter when he or she buys this or that, but please stop your "A is complete garbage because I cannot handle it as good as B", because that's nothing else than bs. People should be aware of things like inconsistent accel. Those 5 % could mean more to me than to you or contrary. I hope you understand it.
> Yes, but similarly shaped mice are still not the same. For example I used MX518 mice for a very long time, more than everything else together (very probably). However, I still like the G500 shape more, a lot more even though they seem very similar, right? And personally I don't care so much, if it's optical or laser. It's not like I hate otpical or something. I get your point though. Still, laser won't make you lose more than you would do yourself. It can bother you, but it doesn't have to bother me. Kinzu v1's sensor was really a mess for me. I wasn't able to adapt to it, not even a little. I'm sure I would have been able to, if I would have tried for more than just a week. Believe me, skill mainly comes from you, just a little bit from your mouse.


But you kinda act like it doesn't matter. For me, Avago 9500/9800 is pure garbage. Doesn't matter how good the shape is, the inconsistent acceleration is extremely annoying. I would never ever reccomend a 9500/9800 mouse without telling them about that flaw... or more like I would never ever recommend it to anybody. That's about how much of a flaw the acceleration is to me.


----------



## metal571

This is a circular argument...I stand by my original statements. Pros won't be so bothered by sensor flaws, but on this forum we want to make matters as easy as possible to potential buyers. That is all we're saying. You are starting to put words in my mouth now by saying that a bad mouse will force you to be a bad player. I never said that and won't say it cause it's false.


----------



## jsx3

Let me chime in and state that there is a vey big misconception when talking about so called "flaws".

In case of 9500/9800 "acceleration" this is a variable property that every modern mouse exhibits, but to different standards when testing or changing optics with specific surface materials.

The design used for the above sensor package is extremely focused. More so than any other design it's being compared with. (Popular LED based variants as an example). We're talking small dot "." versus larger casted circumference "o" per surface basis.

It's not that the sensor or processing portion of 9800/9500 (3310) is bad, but the optical design paired with popular cloth surfacing was indeed far from optimal. Please don't confuse what I say here and assume that LED is entirely superior or "acceleration free". Optimal use depends on package design.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsx3*
> 
> Let me chime in and state that there is a vey big misconception when talking about so called "flaws".
> 
> In case of 9500/9800 "acceleration" this is a variable property that every modern mouse exhibits, but to different standards when testing or changing optics with specific surface materials.
> 
> The design used for the above sensor package is extremely focused. More so than any other design it's being compared with. (Popular LED based variants as an example). We're talking small dot "." versus larger casted circumference "o" per surface basis.
> 
> It's not that the sensor or processing portion of 9800/9500 (3310) is bad, but the optical design paired with popular cloth surfacing was indeed far from optimal. Please don't confuse what I say here and assume that LED is entirely superior or "acceleration free". Optimal use depends on package design.


If it's not optimal on cloth pads, don't put it in a mouse.

Simple.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsx3*
> 
> Let me chime in and state that there is a vey big misconception when talking about so called "flaws".
> 
> In case of 9500/9800 "acceleration" this is a variable property that every modern mouse exhibits, but to different standards when testing or changing optics with specific surface materials.
> 
> The design used for the above sensor package is extremely focused. More so than any other design it's being compared with. (Popular LED based variants as an example). We're talking small dot "." versus larger casted circumference "o" per surface basis.
> 
> It's not that the sensor or processing portion of 9800/9500 (3310) is bad, but the optical design paired with popular cloth surfacing was indeed far from optimal. Please don't confuse what I say here and assume that LED is entirely superior or "acceleration free". Optimal use depends on package design.


What surface was the 9500/9800 designed for then where the tolerances would be closer to the usual +-0.5% that optical achieves on cloth?


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> If it's not optimal on cloth pads, don't put it in a mouse.
> 
> Simple.


Well, its not like its not working, also you have to think about the LED alternatives at that time.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> What surface was the 9500/9800 designed for then where the tolerances would be closer to the usual +-0.5% that optical achieves on cloth?


As "you-know-who" told me often, variance wasnt a concern at the time, not hyped, not well known outside of certain communities, rest is more or less covered above.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Of course not. Tbh I never quite understood why many pros use low res even with TFTs. Habit?


Stretched Models.









But unfortunately that doesnt help with desync against French Fgts, i never understood what went wrong with this Game.


----------



## jsx3

9500 was designed to function on as many surfaces as it can while providing high speed tracking capability.

@tk421

It isn't that simple. A mouse has to operate and be compatible with as many surfaces materials and types as it can. (hence why you see real solutions for surface tuning nowadays)

"Low variance" packages like 3090 had an issue with lift off distance or compatible functionality across the board. Sure, you could use a custom lens or program MCU to dim led, but don't expect optimal performance from either.

This problem is of course is solved on 502.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> What surface was the 9500/9800 designed for then where the tolerances would be closer to the usual +-0.5% that optical achieves on cloth?


Moon rocks, solid gold or maybe buttocks

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> Well, its not like its not working, also you have to think about the LED alternatives at that time.


I would say that it works ok as an office mouse sensor, but being branded as a "gaming" sensor it fails.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsx3*
> 
> 9500 was designed to function on as many surfaces as it can while providing high speed tracking capability.
> 
> @tk421
> 
> It isn't that simple. A mouse has to operate and be compatible with as many surfaces materials and types as it can. (hence why you see real solutions for surface tuning nowadays)
> 
> "Low variance" packages like 3090 had an issue with lift off distance or compatible functionality across the board. Sure, you could use a custom lens or program MCU to dim led, but don't expect optimal performance from either.
> 
> This problem is of course is solved on 502.


Oh I get it. So the 9500 main goals were not necessarily perfect tracking, but perfect surface compatibility, I assume low LOD, and also high enough PCS, whereas the very low tracking variance sensors don't necessarily have all of those in line at once...except for the 3366 it would seem.


----------



## DeMS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Oh I get it. So the 9500 main goals were not necessarily perfect tracking, but perfect surface compatibility, I assume low LOD, and also high enough PCS, whereas the very low tracking variance sensors don't necessarily have all of those in line at once...except for the 3366 it would seem.


The big deal with laser sensors was surface compatibility. Heck, Mx1000 was marketed as tracking everywhere (even on mirrors afair), and this was the selling point of the A6010 line of Avago. They attempted to up the rather low malfunction speed and tackle with other issues opticals of the time had using laser illumination and the newer packages (no angle snapping, better surface compatibility, higher PCS, and so on), thus A9500 was born. In a way, we have a lot to thank those laser sensors we now despise for the current state of optical sensors.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsx3*
> 
> Let me chime in and state that there is a very big misconception when talking about so called "flaws".
> 
> In case of 9500/9800 "acceleration" this is a variable property that every modern mouse exhibits, but to different standards when testing or changing optics with specific surface materials.
> 
> The design used for the above sensor package is extremely focused. More so than any other design it's being compared with. (Popular LED based variants as an example). We're talking small dot "." versus larger casted circumference "o" per surface basis.
> 
> It's not that the sensor or processing portion of 9800/9500 (3310) is bad, but the optical design paired with popular cloth surfacing was indeed far from optimal. Please don't confuse what I say here and assume that LED is entirely superior or "acceleration free". Optimal use depends on package design.


Using laser illumination on cloth should ring alarm bells from the start, since it is a very focused ray of light on an extremely uneven surface that might not be patterned for this kind of image adquisition.

Same applies to PTE packages for different reasons.

It is not helped by cloth surfaces being the preferred choice nowadays.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Again, metal. There is no general rule. I know some people (G500) who play very well. When I was playing 1.6 (till 2012) mainly I also used a Xai and G500. You can't tell me I played only versus noobs and/or people with broken mice because I was not that bad in that game (no world elite ofc). Hell, I even know some weirdos who play "godlike" with a Lachesis. And that's really the top weirdness in all aspects. It's OK to tell people what kind of thing he or she may encounter when he or she buys this or that, but please stop your "A is complete garbage because I cannot handle it as good as B", because that's nothing else than bs. People should be aware of things like inconsistent accel. Those 5 % could mean more to me than to you or contrary. I hope you understand it.
> Yes, but similarly shaped mice are still not the same. For example I used MX518 mice for a very long time, more than everything else together (very probably). However, I still like the G500 shape more, a lot more even though they seem very similar, right? And personally I don't care so much, if it's optical or laser. It's not like I hate otpical or something. I get your point though. Still, laser won't make you lose more than you would do yourself. It can bother you, but it doesn't have to bother me. Kinzu v1's sensor was really a mess for me. I wasn't able to adapt to it, not even a little. I'm sure I would have been able to, if I would have tried for more than just a week. Believe me, skill mainly comes from you, just a little bit from your mouse.


I see the fallacy brought up on these forums pretty much daily that skill is some kind of package the biggest component of which is aiming hability.

What I've found out in my years of competitive gaming is that very few of the top players rely solely or extensively on aim, but their skill package usually involves lots of different talents that are not entirely related to how they operate their pointing device.

More often than not, a player with lesser aim would be chosen because he had a better sense of timing, had a much better navigational sense of the map, had better communication or was faster moving than the alternative, but because his overall skill package had benefits over the guy with the better aim.

When we're talking about top players, the difference in aim is generally just one of the parameters, and depending on game design it won't even be the strongest performance differentiator.

I've seen top players using very weird configurations and being successful with them, for example one guy who had incredibly high sensitivity but he would most of the time be consistent on his first shots (thus his unconscious game strategy was to stay alive until the opponents had lower health and then he would swipe them), but the rest of their skill package was fitting their different configurations.

By the way, PTE sensors do sport an amazing grade of tracking fidelity if used correctly and if one can adapt to their weirdnesses. Nothing too strange about people performing good with them (specially on slower games).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Yeah, derp... Believe what you want. A flaw is something that hinders you from using the mouse at all. That's my definition of flaws. I don't tell anyone to avoid opticals or lasers. I just say it's not the worst thing in the world, but you always refuse to understand what I mean and keep to interpret whatever you want instead. And btw, without people like bullveyr, dems, skylit, bla you all wouldn't even know things like inconsistent accel existed and wouldn't complain about it.
> I hope you're joking because otherwise we get closer to the point (I call it prediction) of a (more) perfect mouse/sensor where people would start to complain about the package because they can't find any flaws.


To me, a flaw is something alien to my body that doesn't allow me to perform at my peak consistently. As such, for me, a low PCS and a low malfunction speed would be a flaw. As such, for me, randomized accel would be a flaw. As such, for me, dynamic DPI would be a flaw. I could keep on going for a while, but that's what it is to me, and what is a flaw for me might not be one for you.

However, if you want consistency and you don't have a well-defined game style yet, you don't want any pseudo-randomness on your hardware, specially when you're still pushing to learn more about the game and get better at it (which is the situation of most people asking for advice on mice here, most "pros" just ask to someone knowledgeable on their circles or go with what "feels right" to them), because it's not only important to perform good as it is to be consistent and being able to repeat a certain level of performance time after time. Once you are seasoned and you know your game style full well (you swipe at the same speeds all the time and you gained consistency on the way you play/use your mouse), then you can play with pretty much any mouse out there and adapt to it, to the point where you might be more comfortable with something flawed because it suits your style better.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> An example is Korean SC pros. In the early 2000's most Korean SC professionals were using Logitech minis. Laptop opticals with a snail's perfect control speed. Absolutely nothing in the world that you could put into their hands would make them better or worse than they already were


That's not a good example. The amount of RTS gamers who use a low enough sensitivity to trigger a PCS error is extremely small. Probably less than 5% of all players.

RTS pros don't use low enough sensitivities to get any benefit from a gaming mouse whatsoever.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaximilianKohler*
> 
> That's not a good example. The amount of RTS gamers who use a low enough sensitivity to trigger a PCS error is extremely small. Probably less than 5% of all players.
> 
> RTS pros don't use low enough sensitivities to get any benefit from a gaming mouse whatsoever.


Of course they do. They get all the benefits except the sensor benefit. But a sensor like the 3310 can feel better on the desktop than a sensor from a crappy 5 dollar mouse.

You get the ergonomics benefit, better clicks, better coating, etc.


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> Of course they do. They get all the benefits except the sensor benefit. But a sensor like the 3310 can feel better on the desktop than a sensor from a crappy 5 dollar mouse.
> 
> You get the ergonomics benefit, better clicks, better coating, etc.


Only if there is something wrong with that mouse. But there are things wrong with other gaming mice and hyped sensors like the 3090 in the FK that feels worse/more inaccurate on the desktop than a $20 wmo.

There is no hill of sensor accuracy at which the 3310 is at the top of. There are a ton of really terrible "gaming" mice, so the 3310 being better than them doesn't necessarily make it good or better than an average non-gaming mouse.

I haven't tested many non-gaming mice, but if a mouse feels worse on the desktop than a 3310, then there is something wrong with that mouse. If there's nothing wrong with your mouse, then a 3310 will not help you in the desktop/RTS environment.

Ergonomics are subjective, but that along with quality clicks and coating can be found in non-gaming mice.


----------



## FreeElectron

Sometimes i forget what you guys are arguing about, but it's fun to read anyway









BTW I think any form of acceleration (consistent/inconsistent) is bad for fps.

*grabs popcorn*


----------



## woll3

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Moon rocks, solid gold or maybe buttocks
> I would say that it works ok as an office mouse sensor, but being branded as a "gaming" sensor it fails.


Well, others would say that A2020-A3080 are not "gaming grade" because of Angle Snapping, as with everything, its matter of preference and individual needs, and its not like A9500/9800 have only cons, not to mention that 3310 and A9800 have a lot in common.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Oh I get it. So the 9500 main goals were not necessarily perfect tracking, but perfect surface compatibility, I assume low LOD, and also high enough PCS, whereas the very low tracking variance sensors don't necessarily have all of those in line at once...except for the 3366 it would seem.


Most probably, overall A9500 was an upgrade in comparison to everything else at that time, different times, different hypes.


----------



## Phillychuck

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/support/g502-proteus-core-tunable-gaming-mouse?section=downloads&bit=&osid=23

Why Update?

Updates G502 firmware
Enhances lighting control for the G logo
Improves LED power management
Fixes erratic-cursor issue
Resolves inadvertent button-clicking issue

Didn't scour forum to see if someone else posted this.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phillychuck*
> 
> http://www.logitech.com/en-us/support/g502-proteus-core-tunable-gaming-mouse?section=downloads&bit=&osid=23
> 
> Why Update?
> 
> Updates G502 firmware
> Enhances lighting control for the G logo
> Improves LED power management
> Fixes erratic-cursor issue
> Resolves inadvertent button-clicking issue
> 
> Didn't scour forum to see if someone else posted this.


Thanks for the heads up, updated now


----------



## Rupbio

Take care with the update, it would seem it's bout to brick my G502.

The firmware update started allright but had a freeze, the progress bar reset and has done nothing now for 20 mins. The DPI light is blinking lightblue/blue but nothing else is happening.

I don't know what to do disconnecting or shutting my PC could end up braking my mouse...

So wait a while before you try to update the firmware and hear if it bricks others too.


----------



## Phillychuck

Updated fine for me, I didn't notice any of the bugs so I cannot confirm fixes.


----------



## Rupbio

I'm glad that your update worked fine.

Mine's bricked, let's see if I'm able to get it RMA'd eventhou I'm unable to find the original package it came with, no idea where it is...
(worst part is that I still have the one for my Savu and it's 2 years old by now and full of dust)


----------



## DeMS

That's the update dialog, for future reference (contains FW number).


----------



## L4dd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DeMS*
> 
> 
> 
> That's the update dialog, for future reference (contains FW number).


Fixed "erratic cursor behavior" means that the spin bug is now fixed?


----------



## blackmesatech

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rupbio*
> 
> I'm glad that your update worked fine.
> 
> Mine's bricked, let's see if I'm able to get it RMA'd eventhou I'm unable to find the original package it came with, no idea where it is...
> (worst part is that I still have the one for my Savu and it's 2 years old by now and full of dust)


Are you sure it's "bricked"? I've seen what you are talking about where the progress bar didn't do anything for quite some time and the DPI light is blinking. I believe all I did to get around it was disconnect the mouse, restart the PC, plug the mouse back in to a different USB port. Then I ran the firmware update again and it finished just fine.

Just something I noticed that caused the freeze/failed update for me, be sure to give it a little time in between the steps where you "unplug and replug" the mouse.


----------



## Rupbio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *blackmesatech*
> 
> Are you sure it's "bricked"? I've seen what you are talking about where the progress bar didn't do anything for quite some time and the DPI light is blinking. I believe all I did to get around it was disconnect the mouse, restart the PC, plug the mouse back in to a different USB port. Then I ran the firmware update again and it finished just fine.
> 
> Just something I noticed that caused the freeze/failed update for me, be sure to give it a little time in between the steps where you "unplug and replug" the mouse.


I would like to offer you my most sincere thank you good sire!

I had not realized the firmware updater was a separate executable, the logitech software didn't recognize the mouse nor did the computer so I assumed it was bricked beyond repair.

However the updater in "C:\Program Files\Logitech Gaming Software\FWUpdate\G502\G502Update_v16.exe" went instantly to work and repaired the mouse installing the firmware which failed the first time and gave me a huge head-ache too.

Again, thank you for your helpful advice!


----------



## Lotty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rupbio*
> 
> Take care with the update, it would seem it's bout to brick my G502.
> 
> The firmware update started allright but had a freeze, the progress bar reset and has done nothing now for 20 mins. The DPI light is blinking lightblue/blue but nothing else is happening.
> 
> I don't know what to do disconnecting or shutting my PC could end up braking my mouse...
> 
> So wait a while before you try to update the firmware and hear if it bricks others too.


U have to replug 2 times. On the First Pic he said something about replug usb, after he try to install firmware but my mouse was just blinking about 1 hour. Then i replug again w/o reboot or something and he install this firmwareupdate in 2 sec's.

Goog luck


----------



## Phillychuck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rupbio*
> 
> I'm glad that your update worked fine.
> 
> Mine's bricked, let's see if I'm able to get it RMA'd eventhou I'm unable to find the original package it came with, no idea where it is...
> (worst part is that I still have the one for my Savu and it's 2 years old by now and full of dust)


Glad things worked out for you, I wouldn't worry about the box, just the receipt with purchase date. The mice I've RMA'ed with Logitech they just send you a new one if you have a legit claim. But they do ask for a copy of the invoice.


----------



## LocutusH

It was the same for me... had to replug 2 times, otherwise it would just blink forever.
But the update passed so.
Finally the lightning options do work now (but one of them is false localized again..)


----------



## TK421

LUA scripting on game detection mode won't detect signal from the MB1 now (newest LGS + firmware update)

bravo logitech









edit, you need "EnablePrimaryMouseButtonEvents(true)" in the front of your LUA scripts to enable MB1/LMB detection


----------



## Cozmo85

How is this mouse vs the DA2013? Also has the spin bug thing been fixed?

Also this mouse stores its settings on the onboard memory right? So can i set it up in the logitech software then remove the software?


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cozmo85*
> 
> How is this mouse vs the DA2013? Also has the spin bug thing been fixed?
> 
> Also this mouse stores its settings on the onboard memory right? So can i set it up in the logitech software then remove the software?


Yes, you can use onboard mode to set and store settings. and use it as 'driverless' mode Even macros.

This applies to mousepad tuning, but It will tune to one universal setting across all 3 profiles, you will need LGS to change to another surface if you wish


----------



## Celcius

I've downloaded the latest software and updated the firmware, but I'm not seeing an option to disable the G led. Did they remove the option?

edit: nevermind, found it


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Celcius*
> 
> I've downloaded the latest software and updated the firmware, but I'm not seeing an option to disable the G led. Did they remove the option?
> 
> edit: nevermind, found it


turn down brightness to the leftmost


----------



## x7007

Hey guys, I'm still reading from page 1 corrently i'am at page 74, I went through everything u said, as for the moment my mouse is on an order from ebay. I notice you say about weight, you are forgetting that good sensor means you won't overshoot or undershoot anything at all from the sensor error margin, what I had before was I think G9 and G700, and I can't even remember my older mouses but I do remember I had G518 and r.a.t 7 which I don't use, all this mouses I've been using on the g.o.d Tier SteelSeries SX mouse pad, but I had 2 of them and they all wore down. now I'm using DA2013 and Artisan Shandi-Kai Mid and I always have a problem with Overshooting and Undershooting even in windows, using 1300 Dpi - Acc 0 - Mark_C fix - 1000Hz. Now mouse won't help you in competitive games because they are suppose to be something that you are really good by all means like the Olympic, people takes 1 thing and go over it over and over with the same routines finding a way he can improve. Games that you play example BF4 and such are hardly the same because you get other people, other teams, and usually other map because you don't want to be stuck with 1 map.

What I mean is to be pro you need to waste time on being pro no matter what mouse, to have fun using a mouse means you are able to use the mouse , holding and moving it with ease, makes u able to do everything u want without faint or exhaust.

I hate acceleration and smoothing cause I can do heads shoots without it, CS:GO is just a game with people who GO and practice.
I find myself sometimes trying to click the X on the window or renaming with short double click and it just annoying.

I hope with good sensor G502 + Logitech 440 mouse pad I won't have this really crappy feel of being chasing the mice instead of doing what I want it to do.

That's in all the most important aspect, Overshoot and Undershoot means you won't miss your shoot and need to waste time "fixing" your aim on the correct place u wanted in the first place.


----------



## Celcius

Normally a mouse will have a red or blue led on the bottom to provide light for the camera, but the G502 doesn't seem to have an led on the bottom. Does this mouse work differently?


----------



## xmr1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Celcius*
> 
> Normally a mouse will have a red or blue led on the bottom to provide light for the camera, but the G502 doesn't seem to have an led on the bottom. Does this mouse work differently?


Infrared. Very common these days.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Celcius*
> 
> Normally a mouse will have a red or blue led on the bottom to provide light for the camera, but the G502 doesn't seem to have an led on the bottom. Does this mouse work differently?


It's infrared led, as some uses glass tabletop, visible light will 'disrupt' the overall look. So now many mouses use infrared.

As mouse sensor isn't as delicate as DVD reader(read: wavelength difference is too small to make impact), the color doesn't really matter here...


----------



## i4mt3hwin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *meffordh*
> 
> Does ANYONE get this ridiculous issue where once every 30 minutes to an hour the mouse sensor goes completely haywire and malfunctions and points your cursor straight into the air at a 90 degree vs. the horizontal surface you're standing on? This **** is ridiculous and happens in clutch times. I've read about it sparingly with no official word from logitech, tried every setting I know about (i.e. rawinput on / off, sensitivity, onboard vs. off / default vs. other tuned pads and surfaces of varying types.
> 
> It's ridiculous that the best sensor in the world would have this type of problem and it not be talked about a bit more than I'm seeing, although perhaps people are trying ot turn a blind eye to this with the 'there is no problem' type comments. I've bought 5 mouse pads and tested on two computers, it still happens.
> 
> What settings am I missing or permutations are left out that I could try that could help guys, please, this mouse is so nice except it causes you to throw games?


Did the firmware update fix this yet or no?


----------



## Celcius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chuck89*
> 
> My G502 started to have problems with the left mouse button again. Randomly a left click becomes a double click - mostly when pressing down the button for a few milliseconds longer than usual.
> 
> On top of that the scroll wheel skips 1 out of 50 "single scroll steps" - so not very often, but it happens from time to time.
> 
> These are the same flaws i experienced with my first G502 nearly 2 weeks ago.
> 
> What are the chances of that? Struck with bad luck? I mean, really?.. I used 2 different G502 and after a few days use i could find the exact same flaws.


I'm also experiencing this "skip 1 out of every 50 or so single scroll steps" issue. Are they all like this?


----------



## meffordh

Yup, fixed it for the brief time I used the firmware before my new mouse arrived. Good thing I'd already picked up a DeathAdder, which is WAY better/more consistent. Will give the G502 to someone I want to consistently reck in any FPS


----------



## MaximilianKohler

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *meffordh*
> 
> Yup, fixed it for the brief time I used the firmware before my new mouse arrived. Good thing I'd already picked up a DeathAdder, which is WAY better/more consistent. Will give the G502 to someone I want to consistently reck in any FPS


Which DA version is that, and you mean that the DA sensor is significantly better? Could you go into more detail?


----------



## x7007

So this mouse has issue now with the sensor ?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Celcius*
> 
> I'm also experiencing this "skip 1 out of every 50 or so single scroll steps" issue. Are they all like this?


So this mouse has a sensor issue ?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> So this mouse has issue now with the sensor ?
> So this mouse has a sensor issue ?


No, the issue is with the scroll wheel, not the sensor.


----------



## Celcius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> So this mouse has issue now with the sensor ?
> So this mouse has a sensor issue ?


I ended up returning mine and going with the G400s instead. Coming from the MX518, I'm really enjoying this mouse.


----------



## Cozmo85

Bought one of these friday to see how id like it compared to my da2013. I hate it. It is not nearly as comfortable and the metal scroll wheel feels terrible.


----------



## jologskyblues

No issues with mine. The mouse feet are fine from day one, no wild spinning, no self-double clicking or any of that. I did have some issues with the firmware update which worked out eventually thanks to the tips in that were given in this thread.

The sensor and the build quality is the best out of all the mice I've owned and that includes the DA 2013. I don't tend to nitpick about the sensor performance details but this one just feels "right" to me.

Also, I guess I just got used to the weight of the G502 and the strange feeling wheel which were my main complaints at first.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sencha*
> 
> What Ino said.
> 
> Here's someone using 90cm/360 in TF2
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its pure preference. I use 60cm/360 and its benefited most in close range engagements. No over shooting, and can track someone jumping over me = perfect for me.
> 
> I played for 5 years at 30cm/360.....I'm so much better now its insane. Just whatever suits.


Is that high-fast or low-slow ? what are the number to actually reach this calculations. \

EDIT : I read all the thread lol, I'm proud, took me 4 days.

From what I understand I hope I won't have any issue and this mouse would be better than DA2013.

Any recommended DPI to use and for example sensitivity in BF4 or in games at all ?

Thanks


----------



## popups

New firmware (v88.2.16) has been released a few days ago.

http://www.logitech.com/en-us/support/g502-proteus-core-tunable-gaming-mouse?osid=14&bit=64#section=downloads

Waiting to see if the input latency has change with this new firmware. I wonder if he is going to retest the G502.

http://utmalesoldiers.blogspot.com/2014/07/logitech-g502-v88216.html


----------



## ChevChelios

a question to the g502 owners - do those 2 buttons on the LMB *ever* get in the way ? Is it ever possible to accidentally press them while pressing/spamming LMB ?


----------



## DeMS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChevChelios*
> 
> a question to the g502 owners - do those 2 buttons on the LMB *ever* get in the way ? Is it ever possible to accidentally press them while pressing/spamming LMB ?


It is possible to hit them, but it is rare.

Might happen once every two hours when you're not used to the shape, but you may never hit them again accidentally after getting used to it.

Then again, you can disable them via drivers (or just make profiles with one DPI step) and the setting sticks after drivers are uninstalled.


----------



## kkit0410

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChevChelios*
> 
> a question to the g502 owners - do those 2 buttons on the LMB *ever* get in the way ? Is it ever possible to accidentally press them while pressing/spamming LMB ?


I forgot that button sometime...
it is hard to press that button for me, even i needed to(i binded it to other hotkey like Ctrl + ])..

The mouse possible "accidentally press" button is the snipe button. I binded the key to Melee at BF4/planetside.. while i shooting > press it accidentally.. i am dead :S


----------



## Ice009

What the best way to install the new software and update the firmware? I never used software in any of my previous mice and have never done a firmware update for any previous mice either.

Should I uninstall the previous version of the Logitech Gaming Software and reinstall the new version, or can you update the software and firmware through LGS (I've had it turned off ever since I initially set the settings when I first got the mouse, haven't used the software since).


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ice009*
> 
> What the best way to install the new software and update the firmware? I never used software in any of my previous mice and have never done a firmware update for any previous mice either.
> 
> Should I uninstall the previous version of the Logitech Gaming Software and reinstall the new version, or can you update the software and firmware through LGS (I've had it turned off ever since I initially set the settings when I first got the mouse, haven't used the software since).


Install it over


----------



## ChevChelios

I keep hearing that some people don't like the scroll wheel on the G502 .. are there any issues ?


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChevChelios*
> 
> I keep hearing that some people don't like the scroll wheel on the G502 .. are there any issues ?


Namely:

1. Rattles, not game breaking, but it's there
2. Heavy by 'gaming' stand, a lot difficult to use vs. say g100s.
3. Mouse click does something scroll
4. Free scroll is not a gaming feature.


----------



## ChevChelios

hmm, I have a difficult time visualizing that









if there's someone here that has used both a G502 AND a SS Sensei(RAW) or a Rival (I've used those two) - how does the G502 wheel compare to theirs ?


----------



## LocutusH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChevChelios*
> 
> a question to the g502 owners - do those 2 buttons on the LMB *ever* get in the way ? Is it ever possible to accidentally press them while pressing/spamming LMB ?


For me, it did. A lot. I always switched DPI during firefights. So i remapped the front left button to LMB also, and the other one to DPI switch instead of DPI down. No problems since this


----------



## ChevChelios

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> For me, it did. A lot. I always switched DPI during firefights. So i remapped the front left button to LMB also, and the other one to DPI switch instead of DPI down. No problems since this


thanks !

what is the G502 surface made of ? plastic ? smooth/rough/textured ? any anti-sweat/rubberized coating ? I mean the top surface, as far as I see the side grips are rubberish

thanks


----------



## LocutusH

It has some rubber on the sides, and is simple plastic on the top. But its ok. You dont leave finger spots on it, like on the mionix matte coating - Wich isnt good for anything, since it makes the mionix mouse even more slippery, unlike the Func MS-3 for example, where the matte coating is also anti-slip.


----------



## jologskyblues

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChevChelios*
> 
> a question to the g502 owners - do those 2 buttons on the LMB *ever* get in the way ? Is it ever possible to accidentally press them while pressing/spamming LMB ?


The only times that I accidentally press them (usually the lower button) is when I suddenly or hurriedly grab the mouse, not while in use.

The buttons on this mouse are pretty easy to click since they're so light.


----------



## razor5cl

So, I'm considering getting this mouse. I currently use an MX Performance for gaming(yes, I know, wireless and laser) and I've heard about the problems with the scroll wheel on the Proteus Core. Is it like the scroll wheel on the MX Performance? If it is I can live with it. I really like the free scroll, comes in handy for Mirror's Edge.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *razor5cl*
> 
> So, I'm considering getting this mouse. I currently use an MX Performance for gaming(yes, I know, wireless and laser) and I've heard about the problems with the scroll wheel on the Proteus Core. Is it like the scroll wheel on the MX Performance? If it is I can live with it. I really like the free scroll, comes in handy for Mirror's Edge.


If you are used to hyperscroll like MX Performance, There's no problem.

The 'Problem' about scroll more 'gaming' standard per se.


----------



## razor5cl

That's good then. My scroll wheel rattles a little at the moment and it doesn't bother me. I find it kinda soothing actually.


----------



## ChevChelios

I really do wonder about that scroll wheel too :
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChevChelios*
> 
> if there's someone here that has used both a G502 AND a SS Sensei(RAW) or a Rival (I've used those two) - how does the G502 wheel compare to theirs ?


are they similar in any way ? or totally different ? will I hate G502s if I'm ok with Sensei and Rivals wheel ?


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChevChelios*
> 
> I really do wonder about that scroll wheel too :
> are they similar in any way ? or totally different ? will I hate G502s if I'm ok with Sensei and Rivals wheel ?


People said quite clearly isn't it.

It's anything but Sensei/Rival


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChevChelios*
> 
> I really do wonder about that scroll wheel too :
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ChevChelios*
> 
> if there's someone here that has used both a G502 AND a SS Sensei(RAW) or a Rival (I've used those two) - how does the G502 wheel compare to theirs ?
> 
> 
> 
> are they similar in any way ? or totally different ? will I hate G502s if I'm ok with Sensei and Rivals wheel ?
Click to expand...

They are completely different. Perhaps you've seen these types of free scrolling metal wheels in other expensive Logitech office mice like MX Performance etc.? Look up some Youtube video if you can't imagine what's going on with the G502 wheel after reading about it.


----------



## ChevChelios

thanks for your help guys

I googled and it does seem to be very different

one big issue google search showed me was something like this :
Quote:


> my new MX Performance Mouse's scroll wheel is just too loose, sensitive, etc.
> 
> I also have 3 year old MX1100 Performance Mouse. It has a similar scroll wheel, but the wheel is much less sensitive to touch.
> 
> With the MX Performance Mouse, the scoll wheel always "creeps" the webpage (or document) up or down just a tad when you take your finger off the wheel because the wheel is so free-spinning. In fact, if you pick the mouse up, the web page will frequently move up or down because the scroll wheel turns so easily. The Perfomance MX Scroll Wheel simply does not have the "heft" that the older MX1100 Scroll Wheel has. My guess is that the Mx Performance Mouse wheel is made of lighter weight (aka "cheaper") material... probably heavy grade aluminum instead of steel, like the Mx1100 scroll wheel.
> 
> Has anyone reading this forum found a way to mechanically add some resistance to the scroll wheel's movement? I realize that the wheel can be changed from smooth to "click, click" scrolling. What I'm looking for is a way to introduce something onto the spindle of the scroll wheel to give it more resistance. (Maybe a tiny rubber washer?) Ideally, a $75-$99 mouse would have some scroll wheel tension adjustment capability built into itself, but since it isn't, we'll have to "invent" something. Thanks in advance for any positive feedback, advice or suggestions.


does this happen on G502 as well ? it sounds awful .. or that guy just has a faulty unit ?

if this normally doesn't happen and the wheel has "normal" resistance in it (provided you disable the hyper scrolling mode or w/e it's called), then I can probably live with it

also, did I understand correctly that the hyper scroll/free scroll (are those the same thing ?) is just an optional feature/mode for the wheel ? i.e. you can disable it with a button and the wheel will go back to the usual ~3 lines per scroll mode ? or it'll still be different somehow even then ?

sorry for the wall of questions


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChevChelios*
> 
> thanks for your help guys
> 
> I googled and it does seem to be very different
> 
> one big issue google search showed me was something like this :
> does this happen on G502 as well ? it sounds awful .. or that guy just has a faulty unit ?
> 
> if this normally doesn't happen and the wheel has "normal" resistance in it (provided you disable the hyper scrolling mode or w/e it's called), then I can probably live with it
> 
> also, did I understand correctly that the hyper scroll/free scroll (are those the same thing ?) is just an optional feature/mode for the wheel ? i.e. you can disable it with a button and the wheel will go back to the usual ~3 lines per scroll mode ? or it'll still be different somehow even then ?
> 
> sorry for the wall of questions


If you set wheel to free-scroll: yes, but no one...at least me will not set scroll to free-scroll when gaming, The wheel in regular mode will do just fine.

I would suggest you to take a trip to local shop and see the product yourself. I think this might solve your problem faster.]

AFAIK there's free-scroll with resistance, but not with logi product. Most notable example is Microsoft mouse products which is hated by many, and they don't product gaming mouse anymore.


----------



## doomleika

double post oops


----------



## razor5cl

Also my MX Performance never does that. The Free Scroll is actually quite hefty, but it can move on its own. TBH as others have said you're not going to be using it while gaming so it doesn't matter too much. Free Scroll is something you turn on for short bursts and then disable again, its not really useful permanently.


----------



## ChevChelios

right

I watched some videos and in the "normal" wheel mode about the only differences I noted about the wheel were that it's metal (right ?) and that it's kinda .. biggish (at least it _seems_ larger then my SS mice wheels).. don't think either of those would be major issues to me, so I probably shouldn't worry too much

Quote:


> I would suggest you to take a trip to local shop and see the product yourself. I think this might solve your problem faster.


I haven't yet found any store round where I live where they have a G502 "on display" where you can touch and feel it for yourself .. but I think I got a good enough idea about the mouse by now


----------



## hza




----------



## ChevChelios

bit the bullet and ordered the G502 .. 87 euros









I still have some doubts about it, I'm afraid the shape won't suit me or the the snipe button will f**k things up somehow







but it still seems to be the best for me overall among the 3310/3366 mice after lots of thought .. or among any Logitech ~gaming mice for that matter (while I do like the MX518/G5/G400/G500 etc. shapes - I want something new (been using that for ages) and I also hate the wheel on those (and I heard G500 sensor is bad) .. wireless mice are out for obvious reasons and the G100 doesn't even have side butons which is a no-no for me .. the G300 buttons placement is terrible as well .. and I'm not the kind to wait an unknown amount of time for new mice announcements and then wait more for them to come out and hope it's good)

hoping for the best with G502 and hope that it will track well on the Zowie G-TF speed


----------



## semantics

New update to LGS(Logitech Gaming Software)
Allows G502 firmware update

Updates G502 firmware
Enhances lighting control for the G logo
Improves LED power management
Fixes erratic-cursor issue
Resolves inadvertent button-clicking issue


----------



## pr1me

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChevChelios*
> 
> hoping for the best with G502 and hope that it will track well on the Zowie G-TF speed


Using the g502 with the G-TF Speed, and it works well (With or without the surface tuning), no problem to report.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> New update to LGS(Logitech Gaming Software)
> Allows G502 firmware update
> 
> Updates G502 firmware
> Enhances lighting control for the G logo
> Improves LED power management
> Fixes erratic-cursor issue
> Resolves inadvertent button-clicking issue


Anything new?

It 8.53.183 complete same in July-10, the post also said the same


----------



## daddyd302

I just got mine today from Best Buy and so far so good. If there's one thing I don't like, it's the scroll wheel. It just doesn't feel very solid to me. I love everything else about the mouse, best mouse I had since my old G9.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> New update to LGS(Logitech Gaming Software)
> Allows G502 firmware update
> 
> Updates G502 firmware
> Enhances lighting control for the G logo
> Improves LED power management
> Fixes erratic-cursor issue
> Resolves inadvertent button-clicking issue
> 
> 
> 
> Anything new?
> 
> It 8.53.183 complete same in July-10, the post also said the same
Click to expand...

Naw same thing, just pointing it out because for people like me that don't run LGS normally i never noticed and obviously never saw that post as well since this thread tends to move fast.


----------



## justnvc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> New update to LGS(Logitech Gaming Software)
> Allows G502 firmware update
> 
> Updates G502 firmware
> Enhances lighting control for the G logo
> Improves LED power management
> Fixes erratic-cursor issue
> Resolves inadvertent button-clicking issue


please read the thread and do not post old news, just wasted 2minutes of my life.


----------



## x7007

I've finally got the mouse, it's very nice, I like the middle button, I dunno why everyone are hating it so much, way better than DA2013, at least better than my very used DA2013, my second DA2013 is almost like new and it's 50% same as G502.

The left and right click are very good in the feeling that u won't accidentally click.

The DPI would help in some games, so is the Sniper button, I can reach it when I want and doesn't click on it when I don't want, I guess my hands are perfect ^^

I didn't like the no pinky rest, my pinky is hard sit on the mouse and it feel a bit tiring after some gaming sessions.

As soon as I connected it and installed the driver it found the new firmware, I updated it, needed to unplug it 2 times for it to work.

Seem better mouse than DA2013 overall, not the best comfortable mouse in the world, but the sensor does make up for it with headshots and good timing.


----------



## x7007

After using this mouse for 2 days, it's the best mouse in the world at this moment, I can't believe I used the crappy DA2013, who recommended this crap ?

Razer is bs company on all of their hardware, Logitech is better than razer, not the best, they do have crappy gear, but they are not all crap.

All other brand have special kind of customization for specific use and they are good at it, like those brands :

Mionix Naos 7000
Mionix Avior 7000
Roccat Kone Pure Military
Corsair M45
Corsair M40


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> After using this mouse for 2 days, it's the best mouse in the world at this moment, I can't believe I used the crappy DA2013, who recommended this crap ?
> 
> Razer is bs company on all of their hardware, Logitech is better than razer, not the best, they do have crappy gear, but they are not all crap.
> 
> All other brand have special kind of customization for specific use and they are good at it, like those brands :
> 
> Mionix Naos 7000
> Mionix Avior 7000
> Roccat Kone Pure Military
> Corsair M45
> Corsair M40


I think the mouse is a bit heavy. Trying out the Avior 7000 a bit more atm.


----------



## ChevChelios

got this mouse today, been using it about 6 hours now

TLDR version - love it, all the extra buttons come in handy both in desktop/browsing and in Dota

now, thoughts :

- it's smaller then I expected .. but decently heavy even with no weights
- LGS is great
- the "sniper button" is *literally* under my thumb in the ~default grip .. obviously that means I can't grip with the thumb in that spot but also that it acts as a full third button - meaning that I can press it without moving the thumb *at all*, not even 1 mm .. I can also shift the grip back a little to press down behind it, though it doesn't seem to be necessary most of the time
- I love the wheel .. _maybe_ pressing it isn't as good as on the Sensei/Rival, but the scrolling (kind of noisy though) and the dual modes are very nice
- I have enough space on the LMB to comfortably press it w/o touching the extra side-LMB buttons, however there's little to no room to shift the finger pad around .. shifting a little to the left most of the time makes me touch those buttons while clicking and while that doesn't actually press/click them - still the feeling of touching them while pressing LMB is weird .. my muscle memory needs to memorize the perfect spot on the LMB so that I always put the finger down there I guess .. although it's only an issue when I first put the finger down there, if I keep it there all the time ready to be pressed at any time (such as in an FPS), then there're no problems


----------



## razor5cl

My Proteus Core arrived today too. I haven't given it the full CSGO competitive treatment yet but from some basic testing in empty servers and Bot matches it doesn't disappoint. The extra buttons as everyone has said are great, they come in handy and they have a good mechanical movement. I personally don't care much for switching DPI on the fly so I have the two buttons for that assigned to Flash and Smoke in GO. The Gaming software is awesome too, looks really nice and works well. Really impressed so far. I even loved the scroll wheel. It has a nice definite click and hyper scroll is just as I'd expected it.


----------



## ChevChelios

question - what switches does the G502 use for its LMB/RMB ? Omrons or something else ? And is there some kind of table which lists all the switches in different mice (same as the one we have for sensors) ?

Also I heard someone here say that Omrons are lighter and thus more suited to the spammy RTS/MOBA/ARPG games, whereas the "heavier" switches (forgot the name) are more for the FPS games. Is that true ?


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChevChelios*
> 
> question - what switches does the G502 use for its LMB/RMB ? Omrons or something else ? And is there some kind of table which lists all the switches in different mice (same as the one we have for sensors) ?
> 
> Also I heard someone here say that Omrons are lighter and thus more suited to the spammy RTS/MOBA/ARPG games, whereas the "heavier" switches (forgot the name) are more for the FPS games. Is that true ?


D2FC-F-7N 20M: G1/3/7/8/9
Wheel: Proprietary
G4/5/6: ZIP Red plunger(?)


----------



## slvr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChevChelios*
> 
> question - what switches does the G502 use for its LMB/RMB ? Omrons or something else ? And is there some kind of table which lists all the switches in different mice (same as the one we have for sensors) ?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1479217/lightbox/post/22103643/id/1972799
Omrons for sure, here you can see the switch model name
Quote:


> Also I heard someone here say that Omrons are lighter and thus more suited to the spammy RTS/MOBA/ARPG games, whereas the "heavier" switches (forgot the name) are more for the FPS games. Is that true ?


Maybe you mean Huano, switches from this manufacturer are installed in all of Zowie mice, but i've found that click actuation force is different on EC and FK models.
The quoted statement is partially right, Huanos in FK are not as light as Omrons in, for example, G502, but Huanos in EC are noticeably much closer to them. I think it's because of button shape maybe. There are many comments about negative experience with FK in Dota or SC2 cause people dislike harder buttons in terms of click spamming.


----------



## rdyy

Hey guys, i just tested this mice in shop, and it's really amazing, perfectly fits my hand, and im looking forward to swap my broken g500 for it
But there is one big question - will it work on my glass mousepad?(Icemat 2nd). Logitech support claims that it won't. I saw some users say around the forums that it actualy works without a problem
What's the real answer?


----------



## LocutusH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdyy*
> 
> Hey guys, i just tested this mice in shop, and it's really amazing, perfectly fits my hand, and im looking forward to swap my broken g500 for it
> But there is one big question - will it work on my glass mousepad?(Icemat 2nd). Logitech support claims that it won't. I saw some users say around the forums that it actualy works without a problem
> What's the real answer?


The real answer is, it does, because the sensor is working with an IR led, so not in the visible light category. BUT there might be tracking problems, dependig on how fine and clear the glass is.


----------



## rdyy

It's matt glass pad, and i think it's in pretty good condition
Every mouse that i have is working on it without a problem - g500/g7 and even a cheapest notebook optical mouses


----------



## dev1ance

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdyy*
> 
> It's matt glass pad, and i think it's in pretty good condition
> Every mouse that i have is working on it without a problem - g500/g7 and even a cheapest notebook optical mouses


It works on my Steelseries I-2 (successor of the Icemat)


----------



## Blashyrkh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rdyy*
> 
> It's matt glass pad, and i think it's in pretty good condition
> Every mouse that i have is working on it without a problem - g500/g7 and even a cheapest notebook optical mouses


it works on my satinized glass home made mat where DA2013 and MMO7 do not track at all.

i didn't try it in game because is too small, but in windows it behaves correctly


----------



## AlCZ

I give a G502 second chance, with new (extra thin) mousepad.... (Logitech G240) I miss their gyro whell and best sensor on the market, "antiperspiration coat"or "profile detective" what is whery useable... but...

I HAVE STRANGE FELL IN MY FOREHAND... With new thinner mousepad... My hand lying on mice, all fingers are in their places, i use palm grip .... Mousepad is vertical oriented... and.... about my elbow i feel a tension... Many users says - G502 is OK and better as DA but i have still problem... (I don't know why-both DA & G502 are palm grip, right hand oriented mices...)but with DA i haven't this specific problem...


----------



## Blashyrkh

Comfort is a very personal thing... DA has a totally different shape. even if they are both palm grip mice their approach to this grip type is not the same.
G502 is simply not for you


----------



## AlCZ

Death Adder have different shape, this is true... But - is obsolete.... :/ Strange, Logitech is one of leading company on market...and haven´t tested ergonomy ? Really, in my own hand lyning mouse good - but in arm is a problem... DeathAdder have worse coating, only two side buttons, no on fly DPi changer and worse cabel... but you have true, ergonomy is probably for me better, no strange feel in forearm... Hmm, i can use a pair day G502 or i can give it back to two months before buying. I like a HW cheat for War Thunder - quickly increase or decrease of boost a "on break (sniping)" mode... And in document working is too a gyro-wheel very ideal. Why, why, Logitech :/ ?

BTW: DA 2013 have too "pad sniffing/tuning" mode, no ? Only a graphic interface of driver isn´t too ergonomic as their rival from Switzerland...


----------



## deepor

It's not about ergonomics in general. It's just for different hands. I get a numb feeling in some fingers in my hand with a mouse like DeathAdder for example, can't use that shape at all, so exactly the reversed situation compared to your hand.


----------



## VARD32

Hi, guys.
Could you please explain how to open the mouse in this point?
Im stuck here


----------



## ryanrenolds08

Just went from a G500 to the Proteus Core a few days ago. I am a huge fan of Logitech's palm grip mice. I get the "sweaty hand" while playing and between the grip and the texture they put on most of their mice I haven't had a problem.

It was a little expensive but I do like the new G502. Glad I made the purchase.


----------



## VARD32

Сan anyone show the clamps placement on G502 ?


----------



## ChevChelios

Quote:


> CPI range was extended, but there is still zero smoothing at 2000 CPI and below. 2080 CPI and above implement 4 frames (<1ms) of smoothing in order to mitigate ripple.


reading a comment like this (about the G402) - is there something like this on the G502 ? i.e. certain DPI values/ranges which are native/have 0 smoothing and others which might have some smoothing or something smiliar ? Basically some DPIs offering better performance then others ? Or it doesn't matter at all and *all* possible values perform equally ?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChevChelios*
> 
> reading a comment like this (about the G402) - is there something like this on the G502 ? i.e. certain DPI values/ranges which are native/have 0 smoothing and others which might have some smoothing or something smiliar ? Basically some DPIs offering better performance then others ? Or it doesn't matter at all and *all* possible values perform equally ?


See here:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> There is no smoothing in the sensor we use for Proteus Core on any DPI level.


----------



## Justhavocman

Just arrived







excited


----------



## cloudpierre

anyone having awkward weight issues with the mouse try putting 3 weights in the back (toward your wrist) .. shifts the center of balance and makes it much more comfortable for me.. though i realize everyone is different. i like heavy mice but the mouse felt off. shifting the weight toward my wrist makes it feel like a dream.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloudpierre*
> 
> anyone having awkward weight issues with the mouse try putting 3 weights in the back (toward your wrist) .. shifts the center of balance and makes it much more comfortable for me.. though i realize everyone is different. i like heavy mice but the mouse felt off. shifting the weight toward my wrist makes it feel like a dream.


I did that as well, as i hold the mouse pretty far back so i wanted to move the balance point for the mouse further back.


----------



## ChevChelios

eh, it's plenty heavy already

and tbh my awkwardness with it comes not from weight or weight distribution, but from the placement of the buttons on the LMB, the sniper button as a whole and the wheel


----------



## Falkentyne

Just wondering, did you guys realize that the firmware update stopped the 'random right click' from happening when you slam down the mouse hard? I Just realized that was the "Fixed random click" issue" thing. Now I can slam the mouse as much as I want.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Just wondering, did you guys realize that the firmware update stopped the 'random right click' from happening when you slam down the mouse hard? I Just realized that was the "Fixed random click" issue" thing. Now I can slam the mouse as much as I want.


wait, someone slam mouse in gaming?


----------



## Derp

I thought that "problem" was caused by the weight of the main buttons pushing down on the micro switch from the force of the drop? How could they fix that with a fw update?


----------



## Falkentyne

Apparently it WASN'T the right mouse button pressing down on the switch. That I am 100% sure about now.
Both my G502's NO LONGER 'activate right click' when slamming down the mouse hard on the pad. Before the FW update, it always did that.
So I have absolutely no idea what was actually going on. It sounds like something was being activated that was NOT the RMB, when there was vibration. It MIGHT have something to do with the mouse wheel or the wheel tilt buttons triggering something.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Apparently it WASN'T the right mouse button pressing down on the switch. That I am 100% sure about now.
> Both my G502's NO LONGER 'activate right click' when slamming down the mouse hard on the pad. Before the FW update, it always did that.
> So I have absolutely no idea what was actually going on. It sounds like something was being activated that was NOT the RMB, when there was vibration. It MIGHT have something to do with the mouse wheel or the wheel tilt buttons triggering something.


It could have just been a bug in the firmware, for example the program writing behind the end of a buffer and corrupting memory.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Any one here switch for the Rival to this mouse? and any fingertip grip users with this mouse?


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Any one here switch for the Rival to this mouse? and any fingertip grip users with this mouse?


Yes I am one but i'm 6'3"/191cm so i was never going to palm a mouse and claw always felt too cramped, so make what you will about that.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> Yes I am one but i'm 6'3"/191cm so i was never going to palm a mouse and claw always felt too cramped, so make what you will about that.


so im assuming you are implying you have huge hands ? i got med/large hands and wanted to know if there was trouble reaching the side buttons using a fingertip grip style


----------



## Xanatos

is the g502 sensor the same as the g402?


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xanatos*
> 
> is the g502 sensor the same as the g402?


No g502 uses unique 3366, g402 use logi exclusive a3050 variant


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> No g502 uses unique 3366, g402 use logi exclusive a3099 variant


Isn't the AM010 based on a A3050?


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Isn't the AM010 based on a A3050?


oops my mistake, fixed


----------



## KaiserFrederick

Just got my G502, really happy with it, it's definitely a step up from my old RAT 7.
I'm having major issues trying to install the Logitech software though, when the program starts to install a window pops up saying something like 'vc_runtimeminimum.msi can't be found', after which my PC hard locks and requires a manual restart.
Any of you guys run into this issue?


----------



## ChevChelios

nope, my LGS installed normally on Win7 SP1 x64 .. although the initial G502 fw update didn't finish (just stalled) .. I manually located the G502 fw update .exe in the LGS folder and updated the fw using that

also, I've already sold my G502 and went back to the Rival .. while it certainly doesn't have as many features as the G502 - I find it easier and better to use overall, the sniper button isn't in the way (that feels so good







), I can press the LMB wherever I want w/o hitting anything, the Rivals wheel is soo much better then the G502s normal mode metal wheel (the freescroll is great, but its usability is very limited by its hypersensitivity .. you still have to use the normal wheel most of the time and that thing is just so heavy and noisy) .. it was somewhat liberating going back to a simpler mouse after the G502 .. it just isn't for me, though I'm glad I tried it out

Rival is temporary though, I'll get a Naos 7000 next Monday, hopefully that one will be a keeper


----------



## jsx3

AM010 and 3050 are two separate sensor architectures.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jsx3*
> 
> AM010 and 3050 are two separate sensor architectures.


umm....you are right. After a few search around the relation of a3050 and AM010 are coming from g100 uses a3055, and g100s uses AM010

There seems no reliable source that claim AM010 is indeed an A3050 variant.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> umm....you are right. After a few search around the relation of a3050 and AM010 are coming from g100 uses a3055, and g100s uses AM010
> 
> There seems no reliable source that claim AM010 is indeed an A3050 variant.


8 pin and native steps of 250dpi?

Just a guess though.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> 8 pin and native steps of 250dpi?
> 
> Just a guess though.


Rafalog have AM010 listed it under 'A3050-class' sensor. The tracking curve characteristic is similar though.

Most other source that claim it to be is either a forum post sourced from another forum post sourced form another...or chinese review site(they have lousy repution)

I don't know much about electronic chips. The best I can do is guess.


----------



## Nilizum

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> umm....you are right. After a few search around the relation of a3050 and AM010 are coming from g100 uses a3055, and g100s uses AM010
> 
> There seems no reliable source that claim AM010 is indeed an A3050 variant.


Then how come on your G402 thread those 'reputable' guys keep saying that the early G402 pictures of the sensor are A3050 architecture. Zzzzzz. Seems there is quite a bit of misinformation.


----------



## CPate

Most likely it's because all they have to go from are pictures.

The sensors in the G100 and the G100s are a completely different architecture. The external packages look similar, but the sensors are different.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nilizum*
> 
> Then how come on your G402 thread those 'reputable' guys keep saying that the early G402 pictures of the sensor are A3050 architecture. Zzzzzz. Seems there is quite a bit of misinformation.


，
Sorry, my mistake


----------



## Atavax

cpate, could you give us a comparison of amount of acceleration we should expect from the g402 compared to the g502?


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> cpate, could you give us a comparison of amount of acceleration we should expect from the g402 compared to the g502?


He did already, iirc it was similar to the G400 S3095.


----------



## Atavax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> He did already, iirc it was similar to the G400 S3095.


1 i thought it was a bit less then the g400, and 2, i don't know how the g502 compares to the g400.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> He did already, iirc it was similar to the G400 S3095.


2% past 2.7m/s?


----------



## weebeast

Well i got the G502 today and the scrolling wheel goes automaticly up in free mode scrolling. Contacting logitech tomorrow

Edit: took me 4 mails and 2 calls till they went ok with me returning the mouse, bunch of idiots work there....

The mouse is very nice but i think i will get something else after this . Maybe the MIONIX AVIOR 7000?


----------



## jdrade

New poster, but have read the forums many times over because it has very informative content that I appreciate. I mainly play FPS games like CS and COD. Having said that, I have always been a stickler for mice and only prefer the more 'accurate' sensors. I do not believe in the term 'flawless.' Nothing is flawless.

The G502 tracks nicely, and I haven't found any screaming issues. The only issue I had with it was the weight. I have most recently used a G400s and DA 2013, which are not as heavy. It took a little getting used to, but like anything else it comes with time. Then again, everyone is different.

One thing I found, was that if you just remove the plate on the bottom, it shaves a little off seemingly and feels slightly better more or less. Could just be placebo.

This thread is rather long, so I am not sure if that had been mentioned.


----------



## dev1ance

Anyone have any luck in getting Logitech into sending them replacement mice feet for wearing out in a month? I use a Steelseries I-2 glass pad and the mice feet have already reached the point where it's at the same level as the plastic surrounding it. I thought these were supposed to last "250KM" or whatever it's rated at but for me, it's already worn to the part where it's pretty much plastic scraping across my mousepad. I don't even game nor use my mouse that much, probably 3 hours a day at most.


----------



## dontspamme

Can someone tell me if the DPI buttons can be assigned to do something else, like execute a keystroke etc?


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dontspamme*
> 
> Can someone tell me if the DPI buttons can be assigned to do something else, like execute a keystroke etc?


You know, it's 'programmable button' for a reason.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dontspamme*
> 
> Can someone tell me if the DPI buttons can be assigned to do something else, like execute a keystroke etc?


They can of course be reprogrammed to do that. The mouse saves those profiles but I don't know how much about the keystrokes business it can do by itself when connected to a PC that does not have the Logitech driver software installed. I never tested that when I had the mouse.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> They can of course be reprogrammed to do that. The mouse saves those profiles but I don't know how much about the keystrokes business it can do by itself when connected to a PC that does not have the Logitech driver software installed. I never tested that when I had the mouse.


Marco works without LGS, but the interface is a horror.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> Marco works without LGS, but the interface is a horror.


Does this mean the mouse shows up as multiple devices in the Windows Device Manager? Does it appear as both a mouse and a keyboard?


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> Does this mean the mouse shows up as multiple devices in the Windows Device Manager? Does it appear as both a mouse and a keyboard?


don't know, didn't see it. prob don't care.

By interface I mean the LGS marco programming UI, it's way worse than it should be.


----------



## Malvolg

If anyone out there is still looking for good replacement feet for this mouse, I'd recommend:

Hotline Games G502 mouse feet

I bought the competition edition from takasta in .6mm. They have fantastic glide on my QcK Mass, and more importantly with regards the G502, the glue is rock solid. Even coming from Hong Kong the shipping was incredibly fast.

The most annoying thing about the whole process was removing the old feet. I finally discovered that my Dr. Stringfellow fret board conditioner was able to remove the residue from the original feet, which left more gunk than any mouse feet I've ever removed. Followed that up with some rubbing alcohol to remove the oil in the Dr. Stringfellow and it worked out perfectly, even if the process was tedious.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Malvolg*
> 
> If anyone out there is still looking for good replacement feet for this mouse, I'd recommend:
> 
> Hotline Games G502 mouse feet
> 
> I bought the competition edition from takasta in .6mm. They have fantastic glide on my QcK Mass, and more importantly with regards the G502, the glue is rock solid. Even coming from Hong Kong the shipping was incredibly fast.
> 
> The most annoying thing about the whole process was removing the old feet. I finally discovered that my Dr. Stringfellow fret board conditioner was able to remove the residue from the original feet, which left more gunk than any mouse feet I've ever removed. Followed that up with some rubbing alcohol to remove the oil in the Dr. Stringfellow and it worked out perfectly, even if the process was tedious.


same, I ordered , still didn't arrive, I was a bit on the worry side.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Malvolg*
> 
> If anyone out there is still looking for good replacement feet for this mouse, I'd recommend:
> 
> Hotline Games G502 mouse feet
> 
> I bought the competition edition from takasta in .6mm. They have fantastic glide on my QcK Mass, and more importantly with regards the G502, the glue is rock solid. Even coming from Hong Kong the shipping was incredibly fast.
> 
> The most annoying thing about the whole process was removing the old feet. I finally discovered that my Dr. Stringfellow fret board conditioner was able to remove the residue from the original feet, which left more gunk than any mouse feet I've ever removed. Followed that up with some rubbing alcohol to remove the oil in the Dr. Stringfellow and it worked out perfectly, even if the process was tedious.


Do you still get dust stuck to the edges?


----------



## kkit0410

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Malvolg*
> 
> If anyone out there is still looking for good replacement feet for this mouse, I'd recommend:
> 
> Hotline Games G502 mouse feet
> 
> I bought the competition edition from takasta in .6mm. They have fantastic glide on my QcK Mass, and more importantly with regards the G502, the glue is rock solid. Even coming from Hong Kong the shipping was incredibly fast.
> 
> The most annoying thing about the whole process was removing the old feet. I finally discovered that my Dr. Stringfellow fret board conditioner was able to remove the residue from the original feet, which left more gunk than any mouse feet I've ever removed. Followed that up with some rubbing alcohol to remove the oil in the Dr. Stringfellow and it worked out perfectly, even if the process was tedious.


Accord from the commend from Taobao
It is not as smooth as the Logitech's original feet. 0.6mm is for the replacement and 0.28mm for covering the top of the original one.

but.. it is cheap. What do you expect.


----------



## Malvolg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> Do you still get dust stuck to the edges?


No more than on any non-G502 mouse.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kkit0410*
> 
> Accord from the commend from Taobao
> It is not as smooth as the Logitech's original feet. 0.6mm is for the replacement and 0.28mm for covering the top of the original one.
> 
> but.. it is cheap. What do you expect.


They actually feel a lot smoother than the original feet to me. But yeah, they are inexpensive; a fantastic deal in my opinion. Four sets (two packs) for $11.99 USD with free shipping.


----------



## x7007

Where is it possible to get Original Logitech mouse feet international anyway ?

I can't get it to Israel anywhere.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Malvolg*
> 
> No more than on any non-G502 mouse.
> They actually feel a lot smoother than the original feet to me. But yeah, they are inexpensive; a fantastic deal in my opinion. Four sets (two packs) for $11.99 USD with free shipping.


Do they come with an already attached adhesive like a sticker so you can just stick them on after removing the old ones and washing with alcohol etc.?


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> don't know, didn't see it. prob don't care.
> 
> By interface I mean the LGS marco programming UI, it's way worse than it should be.


Use auto game detect + lua scripting


----------



## Malvolg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> Do they come with an already attached adhesive like a sticker so you can just stick them on after removing the old ones and washing with alcohol etc.?


Yep! Just peel them off the paper they're on and stick 'em on the mouse!


----------



## x7007

I just got today the Competition Hotline from tasaka. But I'm not even close to need for replacing the mouse feet, they still smooth like crazy on the Artisan Shiden-Kai . Just sometimes because maybe the heat 33-34 C I need to clean the mouse feet every hr, like just with my finger to make it smooth again, I dunno what is getting glued there. But it happens to me with every mouse pad , even SX and such, maybe it won't happen with cloth pad but I don't like cloth and I'll never use one.

What is better anyway , To put the 0.28 mm on the mouse feet or to replace it at all ? I mean it's way easier just to put instead replacing it, it much more work.
what could be the disadvantage of using 0.28 mm compare to 0.6 mm ?


----------



## kkit0410

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> I just got today the Competition Hotline from tasaka. But I'm not even close to need for replacing the mouse feet, they still smooth like crazy on the Artisan Shiden-Kai . Just sometimes because maybe the heat 33-34 C I need to clean the mouse feet every hr, like just with my finger to make it smooth again, I dunno what is getting glued there. But it happens to me with every mouse pad , even SX and such, maybe it won't happen with cloth pad but I don't like cloth and I'll never use one.
> 
> What is better anyway , To put the 0.28 mm on the mouse feet or to replace it at all ? I mean it's way easier just to put instead replacing it, it much more work.
> what could be the disadvantage of using 0.28 mm compare to 0.6 mm ?


well... i may just order one from taobao for my G600.. For Science

My g502's feet is totally fine atm.. no point to destroy it :S

edit: opps, seem G600 feet is not available, only G602...


----------



## Ftruck

Got my G502 yesterday. The Razer Star Wars: The Old Republic Mouse (basically just a star wars themed naga epic) that I got for my Birthday a few years ago had started getting locked either vertically or horizontally and just generally playing up. The G502 looked pretty awesome and it was pretty cheap at $59 AUD.

First impressions were that the sensor was off the chain but the mouse was just a tad too narrow. I don't have very long fingers or hands, I'm only 5' 10" but my hands are reasonably broad. They are also in pretty rough shape. Numerous breaks to my hands and fingers means they get cramped up a bit more easily. The lack of a pinky lip is really causing me a little of drama. I'm going to give it a little bit of a break in period to see if it is just something I need to get used to, or if I need to look at something with a bit more pinky support like the G600.


----------



## Gottylol

Also got my G502 a few days ago. The sensor is awesome, but I didn't fall in love with the mouse overall. First of all, the wheel. At first it seemed so terrible: it's very loud and when you use free mode, it just spins by itself. But after a couple of days I kinda grew on me. It's still way too loud but I actually started to enojoy it's feel. It feels very accurate, solid and responsive. Kinda hard to click tho. If the free mode was usable, I would like it even more. Overall it's awesome when you get used to it.
The other thing that annoyed me at first is that when my fingers got a bit sweaty (which happens often when it's +30 outside even outside of a gaming session), the mouse buttons, especially the right one, kinda sticks to my finger and every time I lift the finger, the button goes up too and then drops down, which produces a loud and annoying sound, which combined with the wheel makes for a really unnecessarily loud experience. When my fingers are dry, this doesn't happen tho.

But my biggest issue is the form. I have a pretty big but skinny hand with long fingers. I prefer palm grip and it's just not comfortable for me to palm grip the G502. I'm not even sure what feels wrong about it. It's not small at all, but may be a bit too narrow as the poster above pointed out. I don't know, I just cant rest my hand on it, I always feel some tension when I hold it. Which is sad as I probably will have to return it.

So my question is, what are the alternatives? I actually come from a Razer Naga. It's a meh mouse, but my palm feels so comfortable on it. I also had a Kana v2 for a while but had to sell it for the same reason. How is the Rival compared to G502 in terms of comfort for a big hand? Any other suggestions? Oh, and I really can't get anything Naos right now. And the other day I tried holding a G500s at the store and it was almost perfect for my hand, but I know it's a bad mouse. May be I should just get a g400-g400s then? I actually bought the G502 thinking it would be similar to G500s when holding it, but it's completely different.


----------



## hza

I don't know about Rival, but G602 felt very comfortable to me when I tried it out in a store 2 or 3 months ago. G602 is a wireless mouse, so, I don't know, if that's a dealreaker for you. I'm usig a G502 Proteus Core and think it's more comfortable than my old G500 that I used for a bit more than 2 years, btw. However, I can't tell, if G602 is more comfortable than G502 since that store didn't have both mice when I tried it out.


----------



## Gottylol

May be I should look into Roccat XTD optical. It looks like it would fit in my hand better. One of the main problems with the G502 for me is that my pinky and ring fingers don't have a comfortable place to be on the mouse. They kinda touch the mousepad when I use it, or I have to place them awkwardly on the mouse. On my naga, my whole hand is on the mouse with no problems.


----------



## pr1me

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gottylol*
> 
> May be I should look into Roccat XTD optical. It looks like it would fit in my hand better. One of the main problems with the G502 for me is that my pinky and ring fingers don't have a comfortable place to be on the mouse. They kinda touch the mousepad when I use it, or I have to place them awkwardly on the mouse. On my naga, my whole hand is on the mouse with no problems.


The XTD is larger and more comfortable to palm than the g502 (g502 is better for claw grip), but it's not a Func Ms-3 where you have a spot for ring and pinky.
I prefer the XTD mostly because it's better to palm and put less stress on my hands after several hours.


----------



## phamtom

So... is the mouse feet problem solved by now?


----------



## hza

No problems with feet at all on my G502.


----------



## Malvolg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phamtom*
> 
> So... is the mouse feet problem solved by now?


Not by Logitech, but if you purchase these in .6mm:

Hotline Games G502 Replacement Feet

...you won't have any feet issues. Myself and a few others on this board purchased the .6mm competition edition to use on our G502 and they're great (a little more glide than the original). Takasta only has the performance edition in stock at the moment, which should be just about the same as the original feet, just without the glue/peeling issue.

The .28mm thickness is to place over the original feet instead of replacing them, so stick with the .6mm size and tune your mouse afterwards.


----------



## D2ultima

Hi everyone. Just wanted to know is if I could set the Logitech's sensor directly to 3500 DPI, or if it only has somewhat pre-set options (like my Deathadder 3500 did with older Razer software; eg. I could only choose 450/900/1800/3500 at one point for DPI)


----------



## deepor

You can configure it in 50 DPI steps.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> You can configure it in 50 DPI steps.


200-12000, 50dpi step

CPete states all step are native

Test shown that's likely to be true.


----------



## D2ultima

Thanks you two.


----------



## phamtom

Thanks a lot!


----------



## zantetheo

hello
i'm one step before ordering the mouse. My only consern is how this mouse will fit in my palm. I would say i have rather small hands.

i wish it was a little lighter ( my current M60 has almost the same weight )

I will apretiate if you advise me from your experiance with the G502


----------



## dontspamme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zantetheo*
> 
> hello
> i'm one step before ordering the mouse. My only consern is how this mouse will fit in my palm. I would say i have rather small hands.


I have small, girly hands.I use the 'palm' grip.
It's definitely not suited for palm grip - mostly due to the sniper button.
But the mouse itself is surprisingly small. Feels quite a bit smaller than the MX5xx shape.

I'm forced to do a hybrid of palm and claw grip.

Yes, the mouse is heavy for FPS games. Too heavy, IMO.

But, boy is that sensor a gem! Best sensor I've ever used - by far.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zantetheo*
> 
> hello
> i'm one step before ordering the mouse. My only consern is how this mouse will fit in my palm. I would say i have rather small hands.
> 
> i wish it was a little lighter ( my current M60 has almost the same weight )
> 
> I will apretiate if you advise me from your experiance with the G502


If you could define small hands, in actual length it would help people with a good reply

As in, XX Cm from base of wrist to tip of middle finger


----------



## zantetheo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> If you could define small hands, in actual length it would help people with a good reply
> 
> As in, XX Cm from base of wrist to tip of middle finger


you are right...i was at work and i couldn't measure it...so now that i can is:

15.5cm base of wrist to tip of middle finger


----------



## justyourimage

I'm just comparing it to the Steelseries Rival which also has a new sensor. I have to say I would've wanted to like the G502 more due to the looks and the quality but my accuracy with it is way less consistent simply due to the dumb thumb-rest - I use my thumb and little finger to messure the distance - which is really important for me especially when switching targets fastly to have a better feeling for the distance and being able to stop the mouse more easily. It 's only a few pixels difference but that 's 14-18% accuracy with an average of 15% compared to 19-25% with an average of 20% accuracy with the Steelseries Rival.

My Experience with the G502 so far:


The Sensor is good. However Logitech only has two (yes only two!) kind of sensor-settings implemented: DPI and enabling / disable Angle-Snapping which is a big letdown compared to Steelseries, Roccat and similiar gaming mice with which you can adjust LOD-Distance, different AXIS Sensitivity and so on. It just feels lackluster to them and in the end might make a big difference for some.

The Mousefeets scratch on a hard Mousepad - it 's best to be used on a soft cloth pad.

If you calibrate it for one surface for example a cloth pad - and try to use a desk or hardpad the mouse almost doesn't work (as in litteraly not moving at all). Which makes switching surfaces a pain in the ass.

The Thumb-Rest hinders accurate control for me (Thumb + little Finger to messure distance and stop faster). Widening my grip makes my hand hurt.

The Mouse-Wheel has indeed skipping from time to time like reported. I also suspect that the button for rasterizing the mousewheel will break rather sooner then later.

The Logitech Software is ugly in terms of UX. The graphics look like they're from 1990. I'm a professional UX/UI-Developer and this is just a nightmare, however I have had worse experience and all in all it 's just a plus/minus that isn't that important in the end unless it 's not working properly. I can only imagine the code behind the Interface but it 's giving me goosebumps (not in the good way). It still works somehow ...

The overall feel and quality is pretty nice compared to some of their recent stuff.


----------



## hza

I guess most people won't change different LOD, different axis sens. and whatnot. Same goes for calibration. You either go with the default setting for "all" surfaces or calibrate it to the one you want to use. I don't see what's bad about that. As it goes for UI I think it's a very clean design and doesn't look packed with things you don't use or need, but that's a matter of taste anyway.


----------



## ChevChelios

UI let me rename the name of each button on profiles

only UI where I've seen that


----------



## LocutusH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justyourimage*
> 
> ...


I didnt experience any of these problems yet, and i am using the G502 since 4 months on a hard pad (func 1030L).


----------



## justyourimage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> I didnt experience any of these problems yet, and i am using the G502 since 4 months on a hard pad (func 1030L).


There aren't that many problems anyway - the hardpad experience might be different for each - however mine has a slight texture (some Steelseries one don't remember the name of it it was a quality one thought) and it does indeed scratch unlike the Roccat Savu and Steelseries Rival. Also the importance of performance might not be that important for many - but for some it is. Saying you have better accuracy doesn't help that sheer numbers help more (15% compared to 20% or 25% make a big difference in overall gaming success especially if it 's a consistent score). The scrollwheel problem also isn't as important as many people make it out - it 's very much not noticeable unless you experience it a few times and specifically looked at it. However I know that specific problem from all their old consumer mice implementing the exact same kind of mouse wheel I never liked it that much but whatever it 's not that important to me.

Overall it 's a good mice - I'm thinking if I should take a file and remove that th(d)umb-rest as it just hinders my performance ...
I don't want to get a G402 with a worse sensor (I'll never get why they only implement it in the G502).


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *justyourimage*
> 
> I'm just comparing it to the Steelseries Rival which also has a new sensor. I have to say I would've wanted to like the G502 more due to the looks and the quality but my accuracy with it is way less consistent simply due to the dumb thumb-rest - I use my thumb and little finger to messure the distance - which is really important for me especially when switching targets fastly to have a better feeling for the distance and being able to stop the mouse more easily. It 's only a few pixels difference but that 's 14-18% accuracy with an average of 15% compared to 19-25% with an average of 20% accuracy with the Steelseries Rival.
> 
> My Experience with the G502 so far:
> 
> 
> The Sensor is good. However Logitech only has two (yes only two!) kind of sensor-settings implemented: DPI and enabling / disable Angle-Snapping which is a big letdown compared to Steelseries, Roccat and similiar gaming mice with which you can adjust LOD-Distance, different AXIS Sensitivity and so on. It just feels lackluster to them and in the end might make a big difference for some.
> 
> The Mousefeets scratch on a hard Mousepad - it 's best to be used on a soft cloth pad.
> 
> If you calibrate it for one surface for example a cloth pad - and try to use a desk or hardpad the mouse almost doesn't work (as in litteraly not moving at all). Which makes switching surfaces a pain in the ass.
> 
> The Thumb-Rest hinders accurate control for me (Thumb + little Finger to messure distance and stop faster). Widening my grip makes my hand hurt.
> 
> The Mouse-Wheel has indeed skipping from time to time like reported. I also suspect that the button for rasterizing the mousewheel will break rather sooner then later.
> 
> The Logitech Software is ugly in terms of UX. The graphics look like they're from 1990. I'm a professional UX/UI-Developer and this is just a nightmare, however I have had worse experience and all in all it 's just a plus/minus that isn't that important in the end unless it 's not working properly. I can only imagine the code behind the Interface but it 's giving me goosebumps (not in the good way). It still works somehow ...
> 
> The overall feel and quality is pretty nice compared to some of their recent stuff.


My 502 performs flawlessly on a hard pad, if it scratches you need to clean the feet and pad. Even though I was one of the first to get one my feet are still fine. Surface calibration sets an amazingly low LOD, so it is normal for tracking to change when you calibrate then switch surfaces - that is to be expected. If you don't like that, you can leave default calibration on which will work on any surface - albeit with higher LOD.

Still ordered the Competition HL feet, since it does not glide as well as Hyperglide feet do.


----------



## semantics

"different AXIS Sensitivity", i remember Logitech used to do that with gaming mice. My bet is people would just call that another gimmick if they reinstated it. As it's probably done by dropping counts at a software level whenever that's implemented.

As far as wearing down on hardpad that's just how sanding works, Either you buy a hardpad which wears down the feet or you buy a softpad which gets worn down by the feet. All that matters is if you like the feel, also which one do you prefer to replace. I prefer my icemat hard pad because it's super easy to clean, damp cloth and done and it's lasted me at least 7+ years. Plus as a high sensitivity user i need that low static friction that you only get with hard pads for the finer movements. Considering i only use a mouse for 2-3 years i just buy one or two packs of replacement feet when i get a new mouse.

Also not sure but i think surface calibration is stored per-profile, can't check atm at laptop mouse not with me. So if you really wanted to you could calibrate one for soft and one for hard and switch between the two. Or just use the default which seems compatible with the most surfaces with the highest LOD to boot.

In the same vein my bet is that LOD isn't adjustable as the surface calibration seems to adjust that so they don't want you to mess with settings that mess up tracking.

"The Mouse-Wheel has indeed skipping from time to time like reported"
That's just how their wheel works, when in click mode if you go too fast you'll skip over the grooves and the actuator will just fly over thus not actually moving. Meaning it just reads it as one actuation, not multiple but you tend to have to go pretty fast to do that. Which i've found hard to do meaningfully, I think they could have spaced the teeth a bit further apart to prevent this and decrease the sensitivity of that wheel overall, but since the teeth are so close together there isn't much reason to move it rapidly as you can get many clicks quickly over a short space so you already get more clicks per movement than most mice. Overall it's lackluster in click mode just like any hyper-scroll wheel, also still too loud on clickmode.


----------



## maxvons

Just finished installing the hotline games competition edition feet on my G502. They actually glide a bit smoother, but the process of installing them was really annoying. Removing the original G502 feet is really hard, and the glue is really weird. I didn't even bother removing all the tiny bits of glue left, would take me a week. I tried to remove some on the foot that's on the weight door, but that didn't turn out good. I got some glue on the blue part of the door, and tried to remove that with hot water (didn't work), then with the included alcohol swipes (they suck). At last I went in the basement and found some blue cleaning alcohol. Took some of it on the microfiber cloth that was included, and I actually managed to remove all the sticky glue and stuff on the blue part of the door (I think I managed to remove all of it at least). The mouse does actually look a lot cooler with the grey feet, but white ones would be even cooler.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> Just finished installing the hotline games competition edition feet on my G502. They actually glide a bit smoother, but the process of installing them was really annoying. Removing the original G502 feet is really hard, and the glue is really weird. I didn't even bother removing all the tiny bits of glue left, would take me a week. I tried to remove some on the foot that's on the weight door, but that didn't turn out good. I got some glue on the blue part of the door, and tried to remove that with hot water (didn't work), then with the included alcohol swipes (they suck). At last I went in the basement and found some blue cleaning alcohol. Took some of it on the microfiber cloth that was included, and I actually managed to remove all the sticky glue and stuff on the blue part of the door (I think I managed to remove all of it at least). The mouse does actually look a lot cooler with the grey feet, but white ones would be even cooler.


Use goo-gone


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Use goo-gone


Can't get that stuff in Norway, but it's fine now. I will maybe do a full clean up sometime, but not before I see any issues.


----------



## zantetheo

Got the G502 for two days now replacing my old Corsair M60.

Tested on BF4 and i've been enjoying it very much so far.

Pros
-Ι can reach all the buttons even my hands are small 15.5cm (exept the sniper button but it doesn't bother me cause i didnt use it in my M60 either).
- Easy to use software (at least better than Corsairs).
- Very easy to handle. Great for fps

Con
- The scroll is a bit too loud but i guess i will get used to it. Not a big issue.
- I wish it was 10 gramms lighter it would be the perfect mouse for me.

Overall i am very pleased with it.


----------



## justyourimage

Anyway - I've sent mine back. No matter how much I tried to love them my Rival came out on top with 23-26% Accuracy each game in Battlefield 4 compared to 13-18% at best with the G502 ... must be my grip-style / hands or not fitting ergonomics or the sensor I don't really know it. However in the end performance and feeling counts. Each time a came back to my PC and took the Rival in my hands I immediately felt at home - with the G502 it was like it was constantly fighting my hands in reverse. Add the thumb-rest I didn't like and the price-difference of the Rival being 10 € cheaper it was a no-brainer for me. I wish everyone fun with their G502 - if you can handle it and it fits your hand I'm pretty sure it 's a solid gaming mouse for the target audience.


----------



## maxvons

Anyone here know if alcohol that has already dried on top of a surface, can be harmful to the skin? Isopropyl to be more exact. Would water wash it away?


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> Anyone here know if alcohol that has already dried on top of a surface, can be harmful to the skin? Isopropyl to be more exact. Would water wash it away?


I was under the impression that it completely evaporates into the air (and does that quite fast) and is gone from the surface.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> I was under the impression that it completely evaporates into the air (and does that quite fast) and is gone from the surface.


So it's 100% gone after it's done its cleaning job?


----------



## Gilles3000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> Anyone here know if alcohol that has already dried on top of a surface, can be harmful to the skin? Isopropyl to be more exact. Would water wash it away?


Not at all:

-Isopropyl alcohol evaporates without leaving residue.
-Isopropyl alcohol Is used as a disinfectant, if anything it will make you skin cleaner


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Gilles3000*
> 
> Not at all:
> 
> -Isopropyl alcohol evaporates without leaving residue.
> -Isopropyl alcohol Is used as a disinfectant, if anything it will make you skin cleaner


Good to hear







. I washed the blue part of the weight door with water twice though, just to be sure


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> Anyone here know if alcohol that has already dried on top of a surface, can be harmful to the skin? Isopropyl to be more exact. Would water wash it away?


Iso alcohol is often used in hospitals and in do it yourself medkits as a wound cleaning agent. So no, it's only harmful if you put it in your mouth so don't do that.
Keep some around to clean wounds and cuts.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Iso alcohol is often used in hospitals and in do it yourself medkits as a wound cleaning agent. So no, it's only harmful if you put it in your mouth so don't do that.
> Keep some around to clean wounds and cuts.


Thanks all. Now I can enjoy my G502 with fresh feet and peace of mind.


----------



## zeewasp

Hey guys,
since my old G7 Carbon is aging out I am thinking about replacement, but I do have some questions for owners of G502 or G402. Does your hand feel the same while holding mouse as it did with MX510 or G7, e.g. the palm grim, thumb finger position, little finger position and also if ring finger is on the side with little finger (as Razer Deathadder has it) or if it holds the same way in old Logitech way. Because from the design of the mice I am just not sure if it is designed for the classic Logitech hands or if it completely different.

Thanks


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeewasp*
> 
> Hey guys,
> since my old G7 Carbon is aging out I am thinking about replacement, but I do have some questions for owners of G502 or G402. Does your hand feel the same while holding mouse as it did with MX510 or G7, e.g. the palm grim, thumb finger position, little finger position and also if ring finger is on the side with little finger (as Razer Deathadder has it) or if it holds the same way in old Logitech way. Because from the design of the mice I am just not sure if it is designed for the classic Logitech hands or if it completely different.
> 
> Thanks


I would say the G402 feels more like the classic logitech shape. The G502 feels better in my hands though, mainly because of the smoother edge on the right side.


----------



## Gottylol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zeewasp*
> 
> Hey guys,
> since my old G7 Carbon is aging out I am thinking about replacement, but I do have some questions for owners of G502 or G402. Does your hand feel the same while holding mouse as it did with MX510 or G7, e.g. the palm grim, thumb finger position, little finger position and also if ring finger is on the side with little finger (as Razer Deathadder has it) or if it holds the same way in old Logitech way. Because from the design of the mice I am just not sure if it is designed for the classic Logitech hands or if it completely different.
> 
> Thanks


For me, it felt completely different. I have never owned a classical Logitech mouse but I've tried them a lot in stores and the shape always stood out to me as THE palm grip shape. I don't know why would anyone want to buy one if you didn't intend to palm it (I could be wrong on this one though).

That's why I got G502, i expected something similar, but it reality it's completely different. It's way more flat an narrower. As many here say it's more of a claw grip mouse now. It can be palmed for sure, but for palming I feel like the old form was better. All in all, the shape is different, not worse, but it accomplishes a different task.
Just my 2c.


----------



## zantetheo

Has anyone tried the G440 mousepad? Is it good with G502?

Im thinking of buying it since my old razer sphex is not so smooth after 1100 hours wit df3 and bf4


----------



## Puck

I sometimes miss the right side pinky ledge from the old 518/G5 shape when using my 502, but that is my only gripe with it and I am more then willing to deal with that small con for all the pros.

From what I can a lot of people prefer not having it, so I may be in the minority.


----------



## pr1me

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> I sometimes miss the right side pinky ledge from the old 518/G5 shape when using my 502, but that is my only gripe with it and I am more then willing to deal with that small con for all the pros.
> 
> From what I can a lot of people prefer not having it, so I may be in the minority.


That bothers me as well, i love the little bump on the right side (G5, G7, Kone XTD, Kone Pure).
Another thing i don't like is the bottom of the right side, it's roundish and my pinky tend to get under it at time, if it was more squared it would prevent that from happening.


----------



## BigLisy

I'm attracted to this mouse and I think I'm going to get one these days. But first I'd like to know if there's new revisions solving the peeling feet that I read a lot of time ago. Is it safe to get now?


----------



## c0dy

I got mine for about a week now and had no problems with them.


----------



## LocutusH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pr1me*
> 
> That bothers me as well, i love the little bump on the right side (G5, G7, Kone XTD, Kone Pure).
> Another thing i don't like is the bottom of the right side, it's roundish and my pinky tend to get under it at time, if it was more squared it would prevent that from happening.


Mee too. I miss the right side of my MS-3









But fact is fact, i am a LOT better with the G502 in BF4. So it just works the way it is...


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zantetheo*
> 
> Has anyone tried the G440 mousepad? Is it good with G502?
> 
> Im thinking of buying it since my old razer sphex is not so smooth after 1100 hours wit df3 and bf4


I have a G440 mouse pad and didn't like it that much. I'm not super good at doing technical descriptions for mouse pads, but it's kind of one of those pads that's just a little too slippery, one where you can't maintain control that good. I tend to overshoot the cursor with it, then have to snap backwards.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I have a G440 mouse pad and didn't like it that much. I'm not super good at doing technical descriptions for mouse pads, but it's kind of one of those pads that's just a little too slippery, one where you can't maintain control that good. I tend to overshoot the cursor with it, then have to snap backwards.


We have the thread with the top mouse pads you should pick if you want the fastest with precision mouse pads, I am working on the review for couple mouse pads mentioned there, so I could give you some Idea on how the perform. I'm waiting for my cable holder to have the maximum steady performance cause of tangling I'm currently having.

From my view GGS Titan is what I'm using now, compare to Artisan Shiden-Kai, GGS is better. You are not running on Ice but you have the precision of aluminum and very little fraction 0.2 or something, same as SX.


----------



## jjpjimmy

Having a couple issues with the mouse.

The glide is considerably slower than the g400, probably because of having so many feets and weighing a bit more..Not interested in purchasing mouse feet.
I'm using an Artisan Hayate Mid. Also to note, my g502's new feets are scratched up on contrary to the g400's which are old and VERY polished. Will these feet also polish up eventually?

While I've heard people having issues with the sniper button placement, I find myself accidently clicking the 'forward' button during moments I have to lift up the mouse. And in an attempt to resolve this, I have now an indent of my thumb's fingernail into the rubber.

and minus points for the braided cable. I'd strip it out if didn't void warranty.


----------



## zantetheo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> We have the thread with the top mouse pads you should pick if you want the fastest with precision mouse pads, I am working on the review for couple mouse pads mentioned there, so I could give you some Idea on how the perform. I'm waiting for my cable holder to have the maximum steady performance cause of tangling I'm currently having.
> 
> From my view GGS Titan is what I'm using now, compare to Artisan Shiden-Kai, GGS is better. You are not running on Ice but you have the precision of aluminum and very little fraction 0.2 or something, same as SX.


thank you..waiting for the review


----------



## x7007

Guys how do you replace the mouse feet for G502, I bought the 0.6 mm competition and if I pull the original ones there is special coating that I don't think we should remove.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Guys how do you replace the mouse feet for G502, I bought the 0.6 mm competition and if I pull the original ones there is special coating that I don't think we should remove.


Nah, it's just really bad glue. Just remove all of it.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Guys how do you replace the mouse feet for G502, I bought the 0.6 mm competition and if I pull the original ones there is special coating that I don't think we should remove.


Remove all of it, til you hit the plastic. It's just the regular cheap-ass Logitech feet. (You don't wanna know what's under the G100s







)


----------



## x7007

omg, what is that glue, I can't clean it 100%, there are just glue everywhere, I used 2 alcohol cleaners that comes with Hotline mouse feet and it still not enough.


----------



## turnschuh

Try lighter fuel.
Best way to loose the old feet and removing residue.


----------



## writer21

Just got the g502 from logitech from free







lol. Should I update to latest firmware?


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> Just got the g502 from logitech from free
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol. Should I update to latest firmware?


Why not?


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *turnschuh*
> 
> Try lighter fuel.
> Best way to loose the old feet and removing residue.


Careful with the lighter fluid. It's capable of dissolving some plastic too.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> omg, what is that glue, I can't clean it 100%, there are just glue everywhere, I used 2 alcohol cleaners that comes with Hotline mouse feet and it still not enough.


I tried to use the included alcohol cleaners, but they suck. I have some alcohol laying around (70% isopropanol), worked way better. I didn't manage to remove all of the glue though, there are some very minor spots left, but I just glued the new feet on top of it, works like a charm. No issues so far, and the new ones collect way less dust, and have some what better glide, or at least the same glide as before.


----------



## x7007

I feel like the mouse has some fraction with the plastic underneath , I can't find what is causing it, I tried on all the mouse pads I have, I can't complete the review on the mouse pads with that issue. It started just yesterday with the oem mouse feet, I thought changing them will fix it, but it still has unexplained fraction.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> I feel like the mouse has some fraction with the plastic underneath , I can't find what is causing it, I tried on all the mouse pads I have, I can't complete the review on the mouse pads with that issue. It started just yesterday with the oem mouse feet, I thought changing them will fix it, but it still has unexplained fraction.


Do you mean friction?

Take the weight door off and see if that solves your problem. Some have reported that it catches on some mouse pads.

Also, the OEM feet on the original G502's were terrible. There are some 3rd party feet on the market right now that are pretty decent, from what I've heard.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Do you mean friction?
> 
> Take the weight door off and see if that solves your problem. Some have reported that it catches on some mouse pads.
> 
> Also, the OEM feet on the original G502's were terrible. There are some 3rd party feet on the market right now that are pretty decent, from what I've heard.


I did tried without the door, it started with the OEM feet just yesterday, and after I change the mouse feet using "Hotline competition 0.6 mm" it still happening.

It was working perfect all this time just yesterday, I hate this issue, I can't play any games or even use windows.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> I did tried without the door, it started with the OEM feet just yesterday, and after I change the mouse feet using "Hotline competition 0.6 mm" it still happening.
> 
> It was working perfect all this time just yesterday, I hate this issue, I can't play any games or even use windows.


That's weird, man. I haven't experienced anything like that with my G502, and I'm using the OEM feet.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> That's weird, man. I haven't experienced anything like that with my G502, and I'm using the OEM feet.


it happens when I move very slow, it start to get harder to move and the mouse start to jump instead of moving.

maybe one of the mouse feet just doesn't fit well or is just not good, I once bought SX which was very bad, it had bumps of aluminum all over it and I needed to replace it cause it was not smooth at all. ( It was the last one in the WHOLE COUNTRY *sad face* )


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> it happens when I move very slow, it start to get harder to move and the mouse start to jump instead of moving.
> 
> maybe one of the mouse feet just doesn't fit well or is just not good, I once bought SX which was very bad, it had bumps of aluminum all over it and I needed to replace it cause it was not smooth at all. ( It was the last one in the WHOLE COUNTRY *sad face* )


I know it's a pain, but you could always go get a nail file and round the edges of the mouse feet. That should make it much smoother, as the logitech feet are squared.


----------



## mitavreb

I just bought this mouse, and my goodness this mouse is HEAVY!

I played some match making in CSGO and I could feel that the sensor is phenomenal but it's difficult to move the mouse around when it's too heavy. Trying to move it in a very short distance is challenging because it feels like I'm dragging this mouse because of the weight. I will need more time with this mouse so I can better control it.

*The bottom part of this mouse is where the magnet is located. I'm thinking if maybe someone can "hack" this mouse and remove the magnets to reduce its weight.*

I'm using a finger tip grip on this mouse. Palm grip is what I normally use but it's difficult to use this grip on this mouse.

I like the scroll wheel a lot and its "free-wheeling". Every time I spin it I go Weeeeeeeeee!


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> I know it's a pain, but you could always go get a nail file and round the edges of the mouse feet. That should make it much smoother, as the logitech feet are squared.


can you post a photo of your mouse feet position , just the back of the mouse ?

thanks

I think it just the feet not properly on, because I put them before on the thing that was on the mouse underneath the mouse feet, and after you told me to pull this too, I pulled out the hotline feet I already put on....

So my guess is the problem I had with the OEM is wear, so I replaced them with hotline but wasn't properly fit on the mouse so the problem stayed, then I pulled hotline feet to pull the other thing that left on the mouse with the OEM and I sticked the hotline mouse feet again on the mouse, so the problem still stays cause the mouse feet are not properly sticked to the mouse, there is not enough glue on the edges and some of them just stick back up.

Is my guess seems right ? if the mouse does that on every mouse pad, that's the only reason there could be.


----------



## writer21

When I shake my mouse I can feel something moving or loose. It's not that bad or doesn't happen when gaming, only when shaking it with a little force in the air.

I was also wondering if I could add some ms 1.1 mousefeet on top of the original? Would it mess with the sensor?


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> When I shake my mouse I can feel something moving or loose. It's not that bad or doesn't happen when gaming, only when shaking it with a little force in the air.
> 
> I was also wondering if I could add some ms 1.1 mousefeet on top of the original? Would it mess with the sensor?


The loose thing you feel is the massive metal scroll wheel wobbling around.

How thick mousefeet are we talkin about? On *top* of the original, you need less than 0.5mm thick feet.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> The loose thing you feel is the massive metal scroll wheel wobbling around.
> 
> How thick mousefeet are we talkin about? On *top* of the original, you need less than 0.5mm thick feet.


you can get the new hotline mouse feet 0.26 mm competition if you want the best glide + on over mouse feet


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> you can get the new hotline mouse feet 0.26 mm competition if you want the best glide + on over mouse feet


I don't need. I make my own hyperglides. pic


----------



## writer21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> The loose thing you feel is the massive metal scroll wheel wobbling around.
> 
> How thick mousefeet are we talkin about? On *top* of the original, you need less than 0.5mm thick feet.


I have some from takasta which are .6mm I believe. I used some on the fk1 on top with highest lod setting.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *writer21*
> 
> I have some from takasta which are .6mm I believe. I used some on the fk1 on top with highest lod setting.


I think that will be too high if you plan to stick it on top of the original ones. Or you get zero LOD.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> I don't need. I make my own hyperglides. pic


How , which one do you use ? do you have a guide or example ?


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> How , which one do you use ? do you have a guide or example ?


You can read about it here. It's not a hard thing to do.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> You can read about it here. It's not a hard thing to do.


What thickness is the PTFE sheet you are using? I can find 0.5 mm sheets which I'm worried might be too thin, but the next highest step is already 1 mm (and then 2, 3, 4 mm etc.).

*EDIT:* I found you posting an answer here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1494888/possible-change-to-the-g502-mouse-feet/30#post_22798713, so I guess my question is answered, thank you.


----------



## Amph

this is a shut up and take my money

ordered one


----------



## zantetheo

Having the G440 mousepad for 2 days now i can say it's really really good combined with the G502. Very good precision. I even lowered the DPI for gaming.


----------



## Amph

the g440 is worth it compared to the g240?

those mouse pad are too big anyway for me, i only need to move my mouse for something like 1cm? basically i don't move it at all


----------



## zantetheo

I can't really say. My previous mouse pad was a Razer Sphex also hard mouse mat. Compare to that G440 is even better.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amph*
> 
> the g440 is worth it compared to the g240?
> 
> those mouse pad are too big anyway for me, i only need to move my mouse for something like 1cm? basically i don't move it at all


A hard mat will probably help you then, it is better for high sensitivity as it lets you do smaller movements with much less friction.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amph*
> 
> the g440 is worth it compared to the g240?
> 
> those mouse pad are too big anyway for me, i only need to move my mouse for something like 1cm? basically i don't move it at all


Definitely second the recommendation of a hard mat







.

I am also low sens and like a super slick mat with fresh aftermarket feet.


----------



## mitavreb

Need help. I want to assign the 'walk' command in CSGO to the sniper button/g-shift button of the G502. Is this possible? I currently use the Mouse5 button for my 'walk' command and Mouse4 button for the 'talk' command in CSGO. I've tried assigning the sniper button in the control settings of csgo but it seems this button is not recognized at all.


----------



## Amph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> A hard mat will probably help you then, it is better for high sensitivity as it lets you do smaller movements with much less friction.


which is the best of them , there are like five hard mouse mat


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amph*
> 
> which is the best of them , there are like five hard mouse mat


You can find the best list in the thread Top mouse pads. just ask there which one you want to compare,.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> Need help. I want to assign the 'walk' command in CSGO to the sniper button/g-shift button of the G502. Is this possible? I currently use the Mouse5 button for my 'walk' command and Mouse4 button for the 'talk' command in CSGO. I've tried assigning the sniper button in the control settings of csgo but it seems this button is not recognized at all.


That should be possible without problems. You need to first put a keyboard key on that sniper button in the Logitech software. After that, the mouse will send that key signal and you can use it in the game's settings. You can really use whatever you want for keyboard key, I suppose. Or if you never click the mouse wheel (which is middle-mouse-button), you could put that middle-mouse-button onto the sniper button.


----------



## DivineDark

deepor is exactly right. It's all pretty simple in the LGS.


----------



## mitavreb

Thanks Deepor. Big help really. I assigned that middle click to the sniper's button since I don't have any use for that button and clicking on the scroll is a little slippery that it scrolls to the next weapon.

And I might be able to palm grip this mouse now given that I have a use for the sniper's button.


----------



## Amph

the mouse arrive...i'm speechless

all i can say is, best mouse ever really, i love everything about it, his look, precision, palm grip, everything is good

i'm already at 6000dpi, i want to reach 9k dpi, and go over 9000 lol


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amph*
> 
> the mouse arrive...i'm speechless
> 
> all i can say is, best mouse ever really, i love everything about it, his look, precision, palm grip, everything is good
> 
> i'm already at 6000dpi, i want to reach 9k dpi, and go over 9000 lol


I don't think using that high DPI's is good for your wrist if you palm grip. It's better to use something lower. I myself only use 800, everywhere.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amph*
> 
> the mouse arrive...i'm speechless
> 
> all i can say is, best mouse ever really, i love everything about it, his look, precision, palm grip, everything is good
> 
> i'm already at 6000dpi, i want to reach 9k dpi, and go over 9000 lol


Don't use any more CPI than you need. CPate has already talked about this. It could actually make your play worse to use a higher CPI with lower in-game sensitivity than a lower CPI with a higher in-game sensitivity as long as you are not skipping pixels if you're playing FPS for example. Most people don't need more than 1800. I use 400, and 800 should be enough for just about anyone.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amph*
> 
> the mouse arrive...i'm speechless
> 
> all i can say is, best mouse ever really, i love everything about it, his look, precision, palm grip, everything is good
> 
> i'm already at 6000dpi, i want to reach 9k dpi, and go over 9000 lol


You are everything that is wrong in this world, and i hate you.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> You are everything that is wrong in this world, and i hate you.


HAHA go easy on the likely newcomer to this section of OCN. We all wanted 8200 CPI and salivated over it at some point...didn't we? I remember I did, used to use as high a sens as possible with max CPI all the time before I realized my aim would never be good that way


----------



## Maximillion

I never understood the cpi hype within the gaming mouse world. I really don't see how it ever became an advertised feature in the first place tbh. it's arguably the most irrelevant performance spec of a mouse. Instead of getting PCS or LOD on a box we get "*Insert Mouse Name Here* THIS MOUSE IS PACKED TO THE BRIM WITH 99999999 SUPERCHARGED DOTS PER INCH TO MAXIMIZE YOUR GAMING POTENTIAL AND LEAVE FOES IN YOUR WAKE!" *also, pay no mind to the imperfect sensor*


----------



## DivineDark




----------



## Amph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> I don't think using that high DPI's is good for your wrist if you palm grip. It's better to use something lower. I myself only use 800, everywhere.


i find 3200 dpi to be slow to be honest 6k is ok for me
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> You are everything that is wrong in this world, and i hate you.


lol, don't hate man, i just want a fast mouse to play RTS/FPS, 3200 is too slow for me,, i was sitting on 3k for many years, it's time to go over 9000!


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amph*
> 
> i find 3200 dpi to be slow to be honest 6k is ok for me
> lol, don't hate man, i just want a fast mouse to play RTS/FPS, 3200 is too slow for me,, i was sitting on 3k for many years, it's time to go over 9000!


----------



## justyourimage

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*


----------



## Amph

i'm serious, i'm currently at 6k dpi, and i find it a bit above normal speed, i'm accustomed to 3k for years now, for me it appear slow

9k and 12k, are still too fast though, but maybe because i'm only on a 1080p monitor


----------



## Amph

double


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amph*
> 
> i'm serious, i'm currently at 6k dpi, and i find it a bit above normal speed, i'm accustomed to 3k for years now, for me it appear slow
> 
> 9k and 12k, are still too fast though, but maybe because i'm only on a 1080p monitor


I don't even know what to say to this. I'm assuming you owning a mouse pad is useless. It would be so small that you wouldn't even contact all of your mouse feet.


----------



## Amph

yeah it's useless but not because of the space, but because i have already a very good surface, and i'm a very high sensitive player, i don't move my mouse at all in gaming lol

i used to play BW where you need a fast cursor, i'm too old for that now, need something that relax


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amph*
> 
> i'm serious, i'm currently at 6k dpi, and i find it a bit above normal speed, i'm accustomed to 3k for years now, for me it appear slow
> 
> 9k and 12k, are still too fast though, but maybe because i'm only on a 1080p monitor


You know, at some point the chance for mistakes starts to increase. To counteract that, you'll then automatically slow down your hand and fingers. The end result is that while you're still pretty accurate, you'll be slower than if you would use lower DPI.

I don't know how to find out for sure at what DPI this will happen for you. You'll have to experiment.

What you mention about wanting to play relaxed, that's actually something that can make low DPI attractive. You might have to concentrate a lot less when reducing DPI but can still be as accurate with the mouse pointer as you like to be. At high DPI it can be more of an effort to always have to stay calm so that the pointer does not jitter around. You have to concentrate harder to not click wrong.

When using low DPI, the effort needed to move the pointer accurately shifts from your mind to your body. Your brain does not have to work as exact but you will instead have to move the hand and arm around more. I suppose there's a DPI setting where things are at a balance that's feels best, and what DPI that will be is different for each person.


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amph*
> 
> i find 3200 dpi to be slow to be honest 6k is ok for me


I used to play on 3200 DPI, then went down to 1600 DPI, then went down to 800 DPI after I got wrist issues for some months. It's way better now, and I can't understand how I managed to use such a high DPI. I'm just as fast with 800 as I was with 3200.


----------



## dontspamme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maxvons*
> 
> I used to play on 3200 DPI, then went down to 1600 DPI, then went down to 800 DPI after I got wrist issues for some months. It's way better now, and I can't understand how I managed to use such a high DPI. I'm just as fast with 800 as I was with 3200.


Do you mean you switched DPI - and lowered in-game sensitivity?
Or do you mean you only lowered DPI - and left the in-game sens the same?

If its the latter, you are needlessly confusing people who are reading this.
Just say that you lowered your sensitivity.


----------



## dontspamme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Don't use any more CPI than you need. CPate has already talked about this. It could actually make your play worse to use a higher CPI with lower in-game sensitivity than a lower CPI with a higher in-game sensitivity as long as you are not skipping pixels if you're playing FPS for example. Most people don't need more than 1800. I use 400, and 800 should be enough for just about anyone.


What did CPate say exactly?

What reason could there be for not playing with a high DPI?
Did you mean high *sensitivity* in general (not to be confused with DPI)?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dontspamme*
> 
> What did CPate say exactly?
> 
> What reason could there be for not playing with a high DPI?
> Did you mean high *sensitivity* in general (not to be confused with DPI)?


I meant don't play with high CPI if you don't need it. Mouse sensors tend to be more accurate at lower CPI. I'd like to get Skylit's opinion on this as well, but that's what CPate said a while ago last I had a discussion about that on here.


----------



## cravinmild

Just picked this mouse up and it's pretty nice. I am going to use it on the playstation 4 using a iogear keymander kb/m emulator as high dpi helps counter low turn speed. So far it's been flawless and I can sprint and spin like a champ in destiny









Very happy with it


----------



## Falkentyne

I play with high "1600/1800" dpi and low sensitivity.


----------



## Amph

i never played at 800, is too damn slow, i can't cover my monitor screen fast enough


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dontspamme*
> 
> Do you mean you switched DPI - and lowered in-game sensitivity?
> Or do you mean you only lowered DPI - and left the in-game sens the same?
> 
> If its the latter, you are needlessly confusing people who are reading this.
> Just say that you lowered your sensitivity.


No, I mean I lowered the dpi and used it in the desktop environment, and games like Dota and WoW etc.


----------



## Rupbio

Not much to do with the current conversation but I just received my Hotline Games Competition Level (0.6mm) mouse feets and have to say I love this mouse more than ever.

I had the "peeling" problem with mine, specially once I accidentally hit the border of my mousepad (G440), also the friction constantly got higher and higher and requiered to be cleaned often in order to stay smooth.

However with the new mouse-feet the mouse feels awesome and really slick on the surface of the G440.

P.D: the glue the original feets leave is a mess to clean, make sure you have enough tools to clean it before starting, what you get in the package isn't enough.

Edit: I also use 800 DPI on everything and I'm with 2 screens on 1080p, any faster would just feel absurd to me (win sens 6/11)


----------



## DivineDark

Sounds like I have some mouse feet to buy.


----------



## zantetheo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Sounds like I have some mouse feet to buy.


me too....

one question for these one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G502-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition-/121402762810?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item61de47fdd2

You put them over the original feet or you have to remove them? Is it difficult or easy process?


----------



## Falkentyne

The .6mm feet are the ones you put on clean, removing the old feet.
The .28mm feet are the ones that go over the original feet. Considering how unstable the original feet are, I probably would recommend the .6mm feet, and remove the original feet and use those.


----------



## zantetheo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> The .6mm feet are the ones you put on clean, removing the old feet.
> The .28mm feet are the ones that go over the original feet. Considering how unstable the original feet are, I probably would recommend the .6mm feet, and remove the original feet and use those.


Thank you.

Is it easy to remove the original feet? Which is the easyiest way to do it?


----------



## Torongo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zantetheo*
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Is it easy to remove the original feet? Which is the easyiest way to do it?


Heat them with hair dryer and then peel them off. After that clean places where your old feet were with alcohol to remove old glue.


----------



## zantetheo

just saw this video from Takasta and says the thicker the feet the better






has anyone applied mouse feet from him on G502?

It seems easier to place than on the top of the old ones.


----------



## Ysbzqu6572

Guys, is there any reviews or something about that surface tuning ?
Does it have any effect ?

I have G240 pad so I am not sure whether its better to:
- leave factory default
- calibrate as new surface
- choose predefined G240 profile

???


----------



## dontspamme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Mouse sensors tend to be more accurate at lower CPI.


Depends on the mouse & sensor, I suppose.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> ... that's what CPate said a while ago last I had a discussion about that on here.


I doubt that he was talking about the G502, though.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dontspamme*
> 
> Depends on the mouse & sensor, I suppose.
> I doubt that he was talking about the G502, though.


I think someone just asked him in general about it, and he didn't say the G502 was any kind of exception.


----------



## Puck

The .28 feet on top of the stockers+surface tuning lowered the LOD even more on my 502. It is seriously under 1mm now, with no negative effects to its flawless tracking. I love it.

Keep in mind some people have had surface tuning issues, so the .6 with stockers removed may be the better choice in that case.


----------



## mitavreb

Poor quality control from Logitech. I bought my G502 just last September 16th and the mouse feet close to the sensor is peeling off. This is still under warranty and I'll try returning it but I think I need to buy
some mouse feet for backup.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zantetheo*
> 
> me too....
> 
> one question for these one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G502-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition-/121402762810?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item61de47fdd2
> 
> You put them over the original feet or you have to remove them? Is it difficult or easy process?


There are two types of mouse feet this seller is offering, Performance and Competition. Any idea what's the difference between the two aside from the price? And which one to get?


----------



## Phos

The higher priced type has even lower friction. The other one is more similar to stock.


----------



## mitavreb

^^ Thanks.

Also just found this explanation from Takasta from this thread http://www.overclock.net/t/1504664/g502-mouse-feet-replacement-hotline-games-0-6mm
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *takasta*
> 
> For clarification, Hotline Games has two different packaging for it's mouse feet, one using the older Black plastic packaging, and one using the new white packaging.
> 
> In all older packaging, they list their thicknesses as 0.5mm / 0.18mm. To my knowledge, this is actually slightly misleading and should be 0.6mm / 0.28mm. Reason for this is because the thickness actually did not take into account the 0.1mm adhesive on the bottom.
> 
> In their new packaging (2014), they accordingly changed this to 0.6mm / 0.28mm to more accurately reflect the actual thickness of both the PTFE + adhesive.
> 
> Alongside their new rebranded packaging, it is separated into Performance / Competition. For most of their models, Competition offers twice the amount of feet that is found in Performance packaging. In other words, you can look at it as Performance = Small packaging, Competition = Large packaging.
> 
> The second difference is that Competition uses a specially treated PTFE, with a layer of material glazed over the top, starkly different from the "Performance" series / older series. The Performance material is exactly the same as it's older Black packaging material. In terms of the actual performance of the "Competition" series, it does glide slightly smoother than normal PTFE, however, I've been using it on my DA CLG for the past couple weeks or so and it's holding up so far.
> 
> In terms of what exact material is glazed on top, they have not given me exact specifications, only noting that it is some silver-treated mix compound, perhaps for marketing purposes.
> 
> In terms of replacing the feet, I do not actually have a G502 to test, but in general the 0.6mm can be used for replacement purposes. This might be incorrect and if anyone has tested to the contrary, I will stand corrected. Generally I suggest applying the feet over the original, in any case to protect the original feet and also, the decreased lift-off distance for me is a plus as well.
> 
> Hope this gives a better understanding of Hotline Games feet!


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H4wk*
> 
> Guys, is there any reviews or something about that surface tuning ?
> Does it have any effect ?
> 
> I have G240 pad so I am not sure whether its better to:
> - leave factory default
> - calibrate as new surface
> - choose predefined G240 profile
> 
> ???


Leave at factory default, i believe the bug where the mouse would randomly give bad input still exists in surface turned profiles. The updated firmware only corrected the issue for the default profile irrc, although it may have corrected it for all pre-set profiles i'm unsure. Unless you have specific problems tracking on your surface i'd leave it at default, or if you wish to have a lower LOD.


----------



## Amph

i noticed that the right button, sometime flexs too much, it seems not fully attacched


----------



## Upyourbucket

Is there a logitech rep on these forums?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> Leave at factory default, i believe the bug where the mouse would randomly give bad input still exists in surface turned profiles. The updated firmware only corrected the issue for the default profile irrc, although it may have corrected it for all pre-set profiles i'm unsure. Unless you have specific problems tracking on your surface i'd leave it at default, or if you wish to have a lower LOD.


How can we check the problem ?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Upyourbucket*
> 
> Is there a logitech rep on these forums?


Yes it is @CPate


----------



## bonami2

what the best dpi to play fps like battlefield 4?

Im going to get one but im normally between 800 2800 depending on what i do.. i dont think i will go higher than 5k only reason is in tank or thing like that.. you know a tank Turret that turn super fast in some game...

I may say that high dpi in close range combat with shotgun is usefull ( 2800dpi) dont know for higher...


----------



## metal571

The lowest possible CPI you can get away with without losing angular granularity i.e. each count is more than 1 pixel on screen, is the best value. Most use 400 or 800.


----------



## Koslov

Maybe the question was asked already, but how is the middle click on the G502? Is it similar to the MX518 in terms of clickyness? Relatively soft to press or much harder?
I'm really picky about middle click button. Is it an omron switch


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Koslov*
> 
> Maybe the question was asked already, but how is the middle click on the G502? Is it similar to the MX518 in terms of clickyness? Relatively soft to press or much harder?
> I'm really picky about middle click button. Is it an omron switch


Not even close. It's a giant, heavy, metal wheel that's kind of heavy and awkward to click, making you want to use it as little as possible. In games where I use this key to do things, I find myself fumbling and missing with that click on the G502. Steelseries and Razer seem like the only two companies that don't screw up mouse wheels + their clicks.


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Koslov*
> 
> Maybe the question was asked already, but how is the middle click on the G502? Is it similar to the MX518 in terms of clickyness? Relatively soft to press or much harder?
> I'm really picky about middle click button. Is it an omron switch
> 
> 
> 
> Not even close. It's a giant, heavy, metal wheel that's kind of heavy and awkward to click, making you want to use it as little as possible. In games where I use this key to do things, I find myself fumbling and missing with that click on the G502. Steelseries and Razer seem like the only two companies that don't screw up mouse wheels + their clicks.
Click to expand...

Yup the middle click on every hyperscroll wheel from logitech has been too heavy for a long time. To get around this?

I just map the sniper button to be the middle click button. Alternative is to map it to the scroll left/right direction where you tilt the middle mouse button instead of depressing it but i found that to be too easy to accidently hit in games.

I just can't give up hyperscroll for use outside of games, i always lock it into click mode and avoid using the scroll wheel/mmb in games by remapping w.e is mapped to there to the keyboard which is more precise anyways.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> Yup the middle click on every hyperscroll wheel from logitech has been too heavy for a long time. To get around this?
> 
> I just map the sniper button to be the middle click button. Alternative is to map it to the scroll left/right direction where you tilt the middle mouse button instead of depressing it but i found that to be too easy to accidently hit in games.
> 
> I just can't give up hyperscroll for use outside of games, i always lock it into click mode and avoid using the scroll wheel/mmb in games by remapping w.e is mapped to there to the keyboard which is more precise anyways.


Yeah. This was especially true on the G500. That thing's mouse wheel button was the biggest pile of useless junk I've ever used in a mouse. I'm convinced that's actually the reason they added the third, smaller thumb button. The G502's MB3 doesn't actually bother me, so I don't bother remapping it.


----------



## 98uk

Hey, I picked up a Logitech G502 as a half treat, half replacement for my G500 which has split braiding and exposed cables (don't want it to break on Sunday when nothing is open and I have a free day to game!). Rather nicely, the cost in store was only €10 more than Amazon, next to nothing.

Have the issues with inconsistent tracking been resolved yet... or at least specific models identified to be prone to the problem? Are there good tricks/tips/hacks for the mouse? I use to use the left and right tilt wheel function for DPI up/down (run 2 dpi settings)... so I really hope this is still possible! Is there a method to uninstall the G500 and install G502 (so no conflict)?

Just any information I can have so when I start using it tomorrow on my free long weekend!


----------



## metal571

Since when did the G502 have inconsistent tracking?


----------



## 98uk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Since when did the G502 have inconsistent tracking?


Since I read this 12 page thread on it?

http://www.overclock.net/t/1498681/inconsistent-tracking-on-logitech-g502/0_20

Not saying it has though... Please feel free to tell me it hasn't if this issue was debunked!


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *98uk*
> 
> Since I read this 12 page thread on it?
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1498681/inconsistent-tracking-on-logitech-g502/0_20
> 
> Not saying it has though... Please feel free to tell me it hasn't if this issue was debunked!


It doesn't have inconsistent tracking. It had an issue, but it was sorted out though a firmware update for the main profile. Just don't use the surface tuning.


----------



## 98uk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> It doesn't have inconsistent tracking. It had an issue, but it was sorted out though a firmware update for the main profile. Just don't use the surface tuning.


Ah ok.

Out of interest... Why not surface tuning?


----------



## DivineDark

Anything other than default makes the sensor a bit more unstable.


----------



## Ysbzqu6572

I can confirm, since I have changed to factory default I feel mouse is more precise


----------



## semantics

It's hard to say what the problem was, logitech's customer service for replacement and repair is top notch but their communication of issues is pretty here nor there when it comes to details.


----------



## detto87

Just out of interest: if one shouldn't use the surface tuning (because it harms sensor precision?) then how high/low is the LOD of the G502 without it?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Just out of interest: if one shouldn't use the surface tuning (because it harms sensor precision?) then how high/low is the LOD of the G502 without it?


Roughtly 2mm. Pretty much perfect for me.


----------



## Falkentyne

Lower than that.

On my Goliathus speed (whether or not its a legit or a fake), it doesn't even track at 1 CD (which is 1.2mm).
So its probably LESS than 1mm on that surface....same as the old intellimouse /MLT04

On my Exactmat speed (really old pad but I never use it), it BARELY tracks at one CD, which is 1.2mm.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Roughtly 2mm. Pretty much perfect for me.


I asked because I have big problems adjusting to the LOD of G402 which feels like 4mm to me.

My WMOs all have a LOD of about 2mm, my Zowie mice about 1.5mm.


----------



## Amph

i have a problem with my mouse(dunno if it is normal or mine is defective)

basically i can rise the right button too much

notice the red zone i can rise from there for 1-2 mm, it shouldn't go up but only down


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Yeah. This was especially true on the G500. That thing's mouse wheel button was the biggest pile of useless junk I've ever used in a mouse. I'm convinced that's actually the reason they added the third, smaller thumb button. The G502's MB3 doesn't actually bother me, so I don't bother remapping it.


Not even close, the g9/9x had it beat by a mile as far as worst middle mouse click ever. It seriously felt like it was broken, right out of the box. Every one I had (2 of the 9s and 2 9x) were like that, completely useless.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amph*
> 
> i have a problem with my mouse(dunno if it is normal or mine is defective)
> 
> basically i can rise the right button too much
> 
> notice the red zone i can rise from there for 1-2 mm, it shouldn't go up but only down


That's normal, the button is a seperate piece.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> Not even close, the g9/9x had it beat by a mile as far as worst middle mouse click ever. It seriously felt like it was broken, right out of the box. Every one I had (2 of the 9s and 2 9x) were like that, completely useless.


Fair point. Top that off with the fact that the G9x scroll wheel was even smaller and looser than the G500. What a pile...


----------



## Ysbzqu6572

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amph*
> 
> i have a problem with my mouse(dunno if it is normal or mine is defective)
> 
> basically i can rise the right button too much
> 
> notice the red zone i can rise from there for 1-2 mm, it shouldn't go up but only down


Are you an octopus that this bothers you ?







Because I cant really get it to rise without actually trying to.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H4wk*
> 
> Are you an octopus that this bothers you ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I cant really get it to rise without actually trying to.


I wipe my nose with my middle finger a lot, and I refuse to wash my hands...


----------



## Amph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> That's normal, the button is a seperate piece.


i made a gif










this is normal?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H4wk*
> 
> Are you an octopus that this bothers you ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because I cant really get it to rise without actually trying to.


lol no, but sometime my finger stick to it(i mean they stick on the right button, some swear, too much time with the figner on it can cause this), and they rise it a bit, this makes a stupid flex sound


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amph*
> 
> i made a gif
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this is normal?
> lol no, but sometime my finger stick to it(i mean they stick on the right button, some swear, too much time with the figner on it can cause this), and they rise it a bit, this makes a stupid flex sound


Yes. On mice with separate buttons, they do have a tendency to have button lift. My WMO's do it, and my Dell mice do it.


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Yes. On mice with separate buttons, they do have a tendency to have button lift. My WMO's do it, and my Dell mice do it.


Same here, G402 are better on this front


----------



## Amph

my old g9 went well in that side


----------



## Amph

another bad think is my little finger

a bit suffering with this mouse, no problem with my old g9

they should add a support to rest you little finger


----------



## metal571

Naos 7000 has support for the little finger


----------



## Amph

they should add the same support of the thumb, thumb always get the nice support and all lol


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amph*
> 
> another bad think is my little finger
> 
> a bit suffering with this mouse, no problem with my old g9
> 
> they should add a support to rest you little finger


I'm glad it DOESN'T have that. I wouldn't be able to use it. In fact the lack of protrusions on that side of the mouse was one of the deciding factors in buying the thing. I am a very high sensitivity gamer (roughly 1in/360) and my last 2 fingers play a BIG role in aiming and stability.


----------



## bonami2

just saying it 65$ at canada computer







im going to get one maybe today i will see if i can use a demo or something... last mouse where 10$ so i feel bad buying this ahah


----------



## bonami2

Wow now i can scroll the speed of light!









And this mouse is awesome a bit small but it good.. I find it lighweight for me but im like a claw grip that prefer high dpi but im trying low one now and this mouse make them feel right! while the last mouse ( chinesse at 1000 dpi was so sluggish...









Even needed to update the mouse firmware the program make it automatic


----------



## bonami2

did you see the new logitech keyboard? g910 this thing is awesome on preorder still!

time to upgrade my g510 that feel like a mud based keyboard..... even my friend corsair dome keyboard feel 10x better than the g510


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bonami2*
> 
> did you see the new logitech keyboard? g910 this thing is awesome on preorder still!
> 
> time to upgrade my g510 that feel like a mud based keyboard..... even my friend corsair dome keyboard feel 10x better than the g510


Meh.. It seems like mostly a gimick. A rather ugly one at that. Then again I don't have a smartphone to pair with it. I would be perfectly happy with a G710+, especially as that still uses cherry switches, instead of logitechs own as-yet unproven switches.


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> Meh.. It seems like mostly a gimick. A rather ugly one at that. Then again I don't have a smartphone to pair with it. I would be perfectly happy with a G710+, especially as that still uses cherry switches, instead of logitechs own as-yet unproven switches.


Logitech don't need to prove anything, they have excellent quality control and on paper, they will be hundreds of times better than Kailh.


----------



## e4stw00t

Nah I keep my ducky shine 3 tkl.


----------



## gre0481

I'm interested in seeing how this pans out. I had a G5, then went G7 (Wiped a few raids switching out my battery), Got a squarish corded Logitech (It had a replaceable mold skin, to change shape) I couldn't stand it. I've been using my G500 now going on 5-7 years. (Cannot Recall) It just fits my grip (Claw) I don't know if I developed this grip from having long fingers or what. I'm looking for a new mouse; but I'll wait for my new rig. My feet on this mouse are still slick, the metal crackle finish on the buttons is worn though.


----------



## 98uk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gre0481*
> 
> I'm interested in seeing how this pans out. I had a G5, then went G7 (Wiped a few raids switching out my battery), Got a squarish corded Logitech (It had a replaceable mold skin, to change shape) I couldn't stand it. I've been using my G500 now going on 5-7 years. (Cannot Recall) It just fits my grip (Claw) I don't know if I developed this grip from having long fingers or what. I'm looking for a new mouse; but I'll wait for my new rig. My feet on this mouse are still slick, the metal crackle finish on the buttons is worn though.


I went MX518 > G5 > G500 > G502... no issues.

The mouse is new, yet familiar in terms of button placement, shape and feel. It's a nice step.


----------



## bonami2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> Meh.. It seems like mostly a gimick. A rather ugly one at that. Then again I don't have a smartphone to pair with it. I would be perfectly happy with a G710+, especially as that still uses cherry switches, instead of logitechs own as-yet unproven switches.


switch are switch.... 3 year warantly anyways

i expect this keyboard to be stronger than the g510 and an upgrade... the 510 is a gimmick...... lcd screen with the worst dome keyboard ever ahah


----------



## raudka

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bonami2*
> 
> switch are switch.... 3 year warantly anyways
> 
> i expect this keyboard to be stronger than the g510 and an upgrade... the 510 is a gimmick...... lcd screen with the worst dome keyboard ever ahah


the new g910 only have a 2 year warranty


----------



## bonami2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raudka*
> 
> the new g910 only have a 2 year warranty


oh yea right.... Strange still.. but anyways i trust logitech.. they know what they do normaly.. my g510 got 2 owner. my friend a heavy wow player and me that play about everything mmo fps etc

the keyboard run almsot 24/7 and the lcd is like brand new


----------



## Amph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bonami2*
> 
> did you see the new logitech keyboard? g910 this thing is awesome on preorder still!
> 
> time to upgrade my g510 that feel like a mud based keyboard..... even my friend corsair dome keyboard feel 10x better than the g510


their mouse are good, but their keyboad aren't for me, i and don't like mechanical anyway, they should make more keyboad like illuminated one but without that ghosting


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amph*
> 
> their mouse are good, but their keyboad aren't for me, i and don't like mechanical anyway, they should make more keyboad like illuminated one but without that ghosting


They have several backlit keyboards that are not mechanical. To my knowledge the only ones that are mechanical of theirs are the G710+ (which I badly want) and the new G910, which is butt-ugly.


----------



## bonami2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> They have several backlit keyboards that are not mechanical. To my knowledge the only ones that are mechanical of theirs are the G710+ (which I badly want) and the new G910, which is butt-ugly.


it not that ugly because i want one


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bonami2*
> 
> it not that ugly because i want one


Looks aside, I see no real benefit of it over the G710+ other than the ability to change the color of the lighting, which in my mind is not gonna be worth whatever extra it costs over the G710+. I just see that smartphone thing as a gimmick. Sure, if it was a built-in screen like the G19 I could see it being worth it, but I sure I am not the only PC gamer who doesn't have a smartphone.


----------



## Ysbzqu6572

Obviously ... its a key-board and the most important part is the keys

G710+ = tacticle switches, sucks..
G910 linear switches = love it


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> Looks aside, I see no real benefit of it over the G710+ other than the ability to change the color of the lighting, which in my mind is not gonna be worth whatever extra it costs over the G710+. I just see that smartphone thing as a gimmick. Sure, if it was a built-in screen like the G19 I could see it being worth it, but I sure I am not the only PC gamer who doesn't have a smartphone.


One thing i don't understand is 'additional screen' stuff. Usually I can't keep up everything happening on one screen(I can't count how many time I died in LoL because I forgot to check map 10 sec ago).

Additional Screen which requires me to move my head down to see probably never happen.


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H4wk*
> 
> Obviously ... its a key-board and the most important part is the keys
> 
> G710+ = tacticle switches, sucks..
> G910 linear switches = love it


But would you pay $180 for it? Thats the MSRP listed on logitechs site. For that price it should have a BUILT IN screen like the G19.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> One thing i don't understand is 'additional screen' stuff. Usually I can't keep up everything happening on one screen(I can't count how many time I died in LoL because I forgot to check map 10 sec ago).
> 
> Additional Screen which requires me to move my head down to see probably never happen.


I dunno about you, but I don't have to move my head to see any of my 3 monitors or my keyboard. Not that my keyboard has a screen on it.

I don't know what I would do without having at least two screens to work with.









Edit: I really should take a new pic.. I use the G502 now, not that corsair mouse in the pic.


----------



## Ysbzqu6572

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> But would you pay $180 for it?


No
I have my CM Storm Trigger
Just saying that most important difference is the keys
Simply tacticle keys are bad for anything than RTS I guess.. linear all the way


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H4wk*
> 
> Simply tacticle keys are bad for anything than RTS I guess.. linear all the way


Well, that is YOUR opinion.


----------



## boogdud

Yeah but the browns in the 710 are _barely_ tactile...


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> Yeah but the browns in the 710 are _barely_ tactile...


Exactly. They use o-rings on browns, which moves the travel distance up .5mm. That makes it right below the tactile bump. They feel almost like rubber domes. I use blues/browns/reds for RTS. Reds tend to work a bit better for all around gaming, as I agree that linear is preferable for FPS and TPS games.


----------



## metal571

Reds are so light on my 6Gv2 reds edition that I accidentally jump if my thumb gets too lazy. Maybe I need blacks instead.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H4wk*
> 
> Obviously ... its a key-board and the most important part is the keys
> 
> G710+ = tacticle switches, sucks..
> G910 linear switches = love it


I've never even bothered to look at the 910, as the 710+ was such a disappointment. Since you brought it up, I had to take a look... Wow... If mechanical keyboards were school kids, that keyboard would get beat up on the playground ever day of the week. It looks ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. I'm not sure whether to type on it, or put it on eBay as a movie prop from Tron 2.0.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Reds are so light on my 6Gv2 reds edition that I accidentally jump if my thumb gets too lazy. Maybe I need blacks instead.


That's pretty common. MX blacks solve that problem, but introduce others. The main one being that you could crush steel after typing on an mx black keyboard for very long. It just causes your hands to cramp. I typed on one for a year and it never got better. I figured my fingers would get stronger, but it was just uncomfortable. I don't mind using black switches if I'm strictly gaming, but if I need to type at all, I won't put one anywhere near my computer.


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> I've never even bothered to look at the 910, as the 710+ was such a disappointment. Since you brought it up, I had to take a look... Wow... If mechanical keyboards were school kids, that keyboard would get beat up on the playground ever day of the week. It looks ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. I'm not sure whether to type on it, or put it on eBay as a movie prop from Tron 2.0.


What exactly did you not like about the G710? Was it anything other than just switch preference? I've been looking at getting it. Based on what I have read the brown switches seem the closest to the feel of the keyboard I have now, wihch has a DEFINITE tactile bump, even though its not mechanical.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> What exactly did you not like about the G710? Was it anything other than just switch preference? I've been looking at getting it. Based on what I have read the brown switches seem the closest to the feel of the keyboard I have now, wihch has a DEFINITE tactile bump, even though its not mechanical.


It was probably the lowest build quality product I've ever seen from Logitech. It's built by a low end OEM that uses really horrible controller boards and lighting. I lost 3 LEDs within the first two days, and now the keyboard is completely dark except for the "k" key. Awesome. The board has a lot of flex, which means it has a cheap plate, and the utility keys are cheap rubber contact buttons.

Overall, I was horribly disappointed that Logitech decided to go with such a weak OEM for their boards. Their reputation is so important to them and this board has severely dented it. They should have sucked it up and went with Costar...


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> That's pretty common. MX blacks solve that problem, but introduce others. The main one being that you could crush steel after typing on an mx black keyboard for very long. It just causes your hands to cramp. I typed on one for a year and it never got better. I figured my fingers would get stronger, but it was just uncomfortable. I don't mind using black switches if I'm strictly gaming, but if I need to type at all, I won't put one anywhere near my computer.


This is why I'm thinking about switching to browns, for both typing and gaming reasons.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> This is why I'm thinking about switching to browns, for both typing and gaming reasons.


Browns are the best all around switch on the market, IMO.

I'm using a Realforce Topre keyboard right now at work, and to be quite honest... I just don't get it. I paid out the ass for it, and was expecting a magical experience as has been described to me by Geekhack. I'm not getting that. It feels like a rubber dome keyboard (which it is), albeit a very nice one.


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> It was probably the lowest build quality product I've ever seen from Logitech. It's built by a low end OEM that uses really horrible controller boards and lighting. I lost 3 LEDs within the first two days, and now the keyboard is completely dark except for the "k" key. Awesome. The board has a lot of flex, which means it has a cheap plate, and the utility keys are cheap rubber contact buttons.
> 
> Overall, I was horribly disappointed that Logitech decided to go with such a weak OEM for their boards. Their reputation is so important to them and this board has severely dented it. They should have sucked it up and went with Costar...


So basically someone like me who occasionally gets ticked off with a misbehaving computer and abuses the keyboard probably shouldn't buy one?








I know this microsoft keyboard I am using is so well built I can pound on it with both fists and the riser-feet don't even break a sweat, let alone the rest of the keyboard. The only issue I have after 2 1/2 years is wear around certain letters that allows light to bleed through. It even has channels built into it so if you spill it flows right through holes in the bottom. This build quality is why I am so hesitant to buy a mechanical keyboard.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> So basically someone like me who occasionally gets ticked off with a misbehaving computer and abuses the keyboard probably shouldn't buy one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know this microsoft keyboard I am using is so well built I can pound on it with both fists and the riser-feet don't even break a sweat, let alone the rest of the keyboard. The only issue I have after 2 1/2 years is wear around certain letters that allows light to bleed through. It even has channels built into it so if you spill it flows right through holes in the bottom.


Honestly, if you're that hard on your keyboards, then I'd strongly suggest looking at something like a CM Storm Quickfire Rapid or Stealth with your switch of choice. They're really well built, from a costar factory, and they're cheap. I have 5 of them with different switches, and I'll be buying more. They're reliable, strong, high quality, and look great.


----------



## TK421

If linear, take a look at this: http://www.bloody.tw/cn/ProductsKEY.php?pid=11

I guess they're the only company that thinks outside of the mechanical box


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Honestly, if you're that hard on your keyboards, then I'd strongly suggest looking at something like a CM Storm Quickfire Rapid or Stealth with your switch of choice. They're really well built, from a costar factory, and they're cheap. I have 5 of them with different switches, and I'll be buying more. They're reliable, strong, high quality, and look great.


The pounding is rare. Anyway.. I really don't like the look of those, I don't like the super plain keyboard. I like a keybaord that is inbetween plain and flashy, like the CM Storm Trigger, or the Sidewinder X4 I have now. Too bad I can't find the Trigger or Trigger Z with browns anywhere.. By the way.. according to the recommended keyboard thread your issue with the LEDs on the G710 was limited to an early batch.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> If linear, take a look at this: http://www.bloody.tw/cn/ProductsKEY.php?pid=11
> 
> I guess they're the only company that thinks outside of the mechanical box


That's not really thinking outside the mechanical box. Cherry has had optical switches for over a decade. They show up in joysticks and arcade buttons from time to time. The reason they don't use them often is that they're not consistent, they breakdown quickly, they're unreliable, and they're expensive.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> The pounding is rare. Anyway.. I really don't like the look of those, I don't like the super plain keyboard. I like a keybaord that is inbetween plain and flashy, like the CM Storm Trigger, or the Sidewinder X4 I have now. Too bad I can't find the Trigger or Trigger Z with browns anywhere.. By the way.. according to the recommended keyboard thread your issue with the LEDs on the G710 was limited to an early batch.


I have had 3...

And not to be a fanboy, but I've been testing the new Blackwidow Chroma, and they're pretty nice. I haven't tried the orange switch (MX Brown) in the stealth, but I've been using the Green (mx blue) and I've been really enjoying it. I've spent some time with both the Chroma Ultimate, and the Tournament. If they actually keep working, I'll be a happy camper.

*edit* - Important typo...


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> If linear, take a look at this: http://www.bloody.tw/cn/ProductsKEY.php?pid=11
> 
> I guess they're the only company that thinks outside of the mechanical box


MX Blacks + O-Rings.

?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Browns are the best all around switch on the market, IMO.
> 
> I'm using a Realforce Topre keyboard right now at work, and to be quite honest... I just don't get it. I paid out the ass for it, and was expecting a magical experience as has been described to me by Geekhack. I'm not getting that. It feels like a rubber dome keyboard (which it is), albeit a very nice one.


That's what I thought. Looking at the CM Rapid-i. Pretty much an ideal FPS gaming keyboard that also works for typing and allows for my ultra large cloth pad preferences with ease.


----------



## bonami2

am i seriously watching a keyboard fight? damn a keyboard is a keyboard if you dont like it i dont care because im sure you will write as fast on the one you hate....

Would game on a mechanical or a 10$ keyboard if i need to and i will not complain...

Btw my g502s wire is twisted in middle idk if it from factory? anyways it work and i dont care for the wire i have other one at worst that i can solder...


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bonami2*
> 
> am i seriously watching a keyboard fight? damn a keyboard is a keyboard if you dont like it i dont care because im sure you will write as fast on the one you hate....
> 
> Would game on a mechanical or a 10$ keyboard if i need to and i will not complain...
> 
> Btw my g502s wire is twisted in middle idk if it from factory? anyways it work and i dont care for the wire i have other one at worst that i can solder...


----------



## bonami2

And for the led dying im sure you rma it and you will get a keyboard that work..... Doa happen all time


----------



## bonami2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*


Ahem cable fixed i just turned it left right left righ and it got back to normal it was just too tight..... Idk how it happened


----------



## exitone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Reds are so light on my 6Gv2 reds edition that I accidentally jump if my thumb gets too lazy. Maybe I need blacks instead.


My keyboard has MX Reds on the normal keys and MX Blacks on the space bar


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *exitone*
> 
> My keyboard has MX Reds on the normal keys and MX Blacks on the space bar


That's pretty common.


----------



## metal571

I need that


----------



## e4stw00t

Yeah think that combo is pretty common (my Ducky Shine 3 TKL has it as well).


----------



## pastuch

The G502 is the best mouse I've ever used. The button placements, sensor, air-flow, and weight (I don't add any) are all perfect! The build quality is also top-notch, it feels SOLID. The sensor accuracy and fluidity with the G240 mouse pad is basically perfect (as far as I can tell). I only paid $60 for it and $20 for the mouse pad. I am going to be using this mouse for a long, long time. My BF4 KD:R has improved significantly since I switched to the G502 from the G400. I went 23 and 0 on one round last night, my worst KDR was 5:1. It has so many easy access buttons that I probably won't use my Naga hex anymore for GW2 or Wildstar (Quit that ****ty grind fest anyway).

Previous mice:

Logitech G400 (with prediction unfortunately)
Razer Deathadder
Razer Naga Hex
Microsoft Sidewinder X8
Logitech G7
Logitech MX700
Logitech Ifeel Mouseman - My first optical, it was huge, heavy and ******* awesome for CS 1.3.


----------



## mitavreb

Guys can I get an advice on what mouse pad to buy for the G502? I currently have the Goliathus Control edition and its rough surface caused the mouse feet of the G502 to peel off. I was able to return the mouse and get a brand new one but I haven't opened it. Before I use it I wanna make sure I get a mouse pad that doesn't affect the feet of the G502.

I want a mouse pad that is 4mm to 6mm thick, so I'm deciding between the Qck Mass and Taito 5mm. The G240 has some good feedback so I might consider this too. Are cloth mouse pads good for the G502 or should I consider a hard mouse pad like the G440?


----------



## Ysbzqu6572

QcK+ / QcK Heavy


----------



## MasterBash

I recently bought an Artisan Hayate, coming from a QcK+ and QcK Heavy, I much prefer the hayate. Much smoother than a QcK, yet I get amazing control on it.


----------



## Arc0s

I'm using mine on a puretrak talent with zero problems.


----------



## Kisse

I bought this mouse and G240 mouse pad. Mouse pad is horrible. It moves around. Its too thin and tracking is better on my plain black table than on G240. Its like a micro fiber cloth/ towel. Mouse has tracking problems with it at very slow movement.

But the G502 mouse is the real problem.

1. Its too heavy.
2. Size is too wide and thumb area is a little bit too small.
3. Sniping button is ridiculous and really too far. You actually cant reach it while gaming fast paced situation.
4. You just cant get a solid grab of it compared to G400 or G5/500 series.
5. Its not 100% accurate. Somehow vertical movement is strange.
6. Bottom scratches surface while playing. You cant tilt it at all while sweeping.

Im going back to Roccat Savu. Logitech G502 is a major disappointment for me.


----------



## LocutusH

Too wide??? The G502 is the narrowest mouse i ever had...

About it accuracy... i really have doubts if you actually used this mouse... or if you dont got a defect one... No one had ever problems with the sensor, in fact, its the best sensor ever. It also seems science fiction that it has problems on their own mouse pad...lol...


----------



## gre0481

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pastuch*
> 
> The G502 is the best mouse I've ever used. The button placements, sensor, air-flow, and weight (I don't add any) are all perfect! The build quality is also top-notch, it feels SOLID. The sensor accuracy and fluidity with the G240 mouse pad is basically perfect (as far as I can tell). I only paid $60 for it and $20 for the mouse pad. I am going to be using this mouse for a long, long time. My BF4 KD:R has improved significantly since I switched to the G502 from the G400. I went 23 and 0 on one round last night, my worst KDR was 5:1. It has so many easy access buttons that I probably won't use my Naga hex anymore for GW2 or Wildstar (Quit that ****ty grind fest anyway).
> 
> Previous mice:
> 
> Logitech G400 (with prediction unfortunately)
> Razer Deathadder
> Razer Naga Hex
> Microsoft Sidewinder X8
> Logitech G7
> Logitech MX700
> Logitech Ifeel Mouseman - My first optical, it was huge, heavy and ******* awesome for CS 1.3.


Am I missing an option? Air-flow? I remember gamepads having fan airflow, but not mice. Am I missing something?


----------



## maxvons

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> Guys can I get an advice on what mouse pad to buy for the G502? I currently have the Goliathus Control edition and its rough surface caused the mouse feet of the G502 to peel off. I was able to return the mouse and get a brand new one but I haven't opened it. Before I use it I wanna make sure I get a mouse pad that doesn't affect the feet of the G502.
> 
> I want a mouse pad that is 4mm to 6mm thick, so I'm deciding between the Qck Mass and Taito 5mm. The G240 has some good feedback so I might consider this too. Are cloth mouse pads good for the G502 or should I consider a hard mouse pad like the G440?


I have had 0 issues using it on my Puretrak Talent since Easter.


----------



## mitavreb

If only the Puretrak Talent is available in our country I would buy that. I like the texture from what I've seen on youtube and it looks like it's not a dust magnet. Hayate is not available also.

My biggest concern with cloth mouse pads is that they collect dust easily, and this was one of the reasons why the feet on my G502 was peeling off. So I'm searching for a thick cloth mousepad that doesn't collect that much dust. My choices though are very limited, Steelseries and Roccat offer thick mouse pads while other brands here might not have thick pads: Mionix, Corsair, Thermaltake, Razer, and logitech.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> If only the Puretrak Talent is available in our country I would buy that. I like the texture from what I've seen on youtube and it looks like it's not a dust magnet. Hayate is not available also.
> 
> My biggest concern with cloth mouse pads is that they collect dust easily, and this was one of the reasons why the feet on my G502 was peeling off. So I'm searching for a thick cloth mousepad that doesn't collect that much dust. My choices though are very limited, Steelseries and Roccat offer thick mouse pads while other brands here might not have thick pads: Mionix, Corsair, Thermaltake, Razer, and logitech.


Check the recommended mouse pads in this thread if you haven't so far http://www.overclock.net/forum/newestpost/1507448


----------



## LocutusH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> If only the Puretrak Talent is available in our country I would buy that. I like the texture from what I've seen on youtube and it looks like it's not a dust magnet. Hayate is not available also.
> 
> My biggest concern with cloth mouse pads is that they collect dust easily, and this was one of the reasons why the feet on my G502 was peeling off. So I'm searching for a thick cloth mousepad that doesn't collect that much dust. My choices though are very limited, Steelseries and Roccat offer thick mouse pads while other brands here might not have thick pads: Mionix, Corsair, Thermaltake, Razer, and logitech.


Spray your cloth mouse pad with silicone spray. That helps also preventing dust, and friction, and you have better gliding for 1-2 months too.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> Spray your cloth mouse pad with silicone spray. That helps also preventing dust, and friction, and you have better gliding for 1-2 months too.


How much you need to spray, does it really help ?


----------



## Blashyrkh

I'm used to play with g502 + g240 or mm600 ...My preferred combo is with mm600... I can flickshot like hell with that.
Now I'm testing g402 And qck+...

Honestly i think that the g240 is better than qck+ except for size... It stays exactly were i put it even during fast paced moments... Itslike glued to table.


----------



## MasterBash

Anyone successfully opened the G502 to remove the weight holder thingy at the bottom to reduce the weight?


----------



## Ysbzqu6572

why would anybody do that.. for few grams ?
your mouse could actually become unstable on the surface due to that


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H4wk*
> 
> why would anybody do that.. for few grams ?
> your mouse could actually become unstable on the surface due to that


Welcome to OCN, expect and enjoy the insanity.


----------



## MasterBash

and why would it? the door is not even attached to the blue thing. I believe the blue weight thing is just snapped or glued on or something.


----------



## Heimdallr

Anyone here had the chance to try the G502 on a Shiden snow white? It is working?

thanks


----------



## jaffa2843

I did. It worked just fine on the Shiden White.


----------



## Heimdallr

thanks mate, i just wanted to be sure


----------



## maxvons

Wow, just got my EC1 Evo CL. The Huanos feel really light IMO, almost just like Omrons. The shape and weight of the mouse so far feels better than the G502, and the mice feet glide just as well, if not better. Might just be my dream mouse. Only thing I don't like so far, is the missing 800 DPI step, but I bet they fix that with the new 3310 version if that's coming.


----------



## DivineDark

Huanos in the EC shell were never much of an issue. The problems came when they brought out the AM and the FK. The shell added enough extra resistance to the buttons that it raised the issue in a big way.


----------



## e4stw00t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Huanos in the EC shell were never much of an issue. The problems came when they brought out the AM and the FK. The shell added enough extra resistance to the buttons that it raised the issue in a big way.


This!


----------



## maxvons

Just bought a Xbox One controller too, works like a charm in Shadows of Mordor so far


----------



## ChrisPh

hey guys dunno if someone has said this before but im too bored to read 200 pages.

Is there any good way to clean those rubber sides on the mouse? Like im using my mouse so many hours everyday it gets dirty fast
and it doesnt seem to get cleaned with just a towel, any ideas? xD


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChrisPh*
> 
> hey guys dunno if someone has said this before but im too bored to read 200 pages.
> 
> Is there any good way to clean those rubber sides on the mouse? Like im using my mouse so many hours everyday it gets dirty fast
> and it doesnt seem to get cleaned with just a towel, any ideas? xD


Do You mean the textured rubber sidegrips? I'd use a soft toothbrush to clean those little holes.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> Do You mean the textured rubber sidegrips? I'd use a soft toothbrush to clean those little holes.


^^


----------



## evoll88

Anyone have a problem with the 2 buttons to the left of the LMB on the top (think they are the ones that change the mouse dpi on the go)? Mine would work and light up but not now,i have tried disconnecting the mouse and plugging it back in but it doesn't work in game or just using it in windows.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *evoll88*
> 
> Anyone have a problem with the 2 buttons to the left of the LMB on the top (think they are the ones that change the mouse dpi on the go)? Mine would work and light up but not now,i have tried disconnecting the mouse and plugging it back in but it doesn't work in game or just using it in windows.


I disabled those buttons in LGS, so they don't light up anymore on mine.


----------



## Fatman

What's a good mouse pad to go with this mice? It can be either soft, or hard, but i would prefer a hard pad since i seem to eating trough soft pads fairly fast.


----------



## ChrisPh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> Do You mean the textured rubber sidegrips? I'd use a soft toothbrush to clean those little holes.


exactly xDD thanks for the tip hehe!


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fatman*
> 
> What's a good mouse pad to go with this mice? It can be either soft, or hard, but i would prefer a hard pad since i seem to eating trough soft pads fairly fast.


If you never washed your cloth pads, please try that. The cloth is probably simply dirty. I say this because my cloth mouse pads simply don't wear at all (at least not their surface), though have to be washed regularly.


----------



## dejahboi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fatman*
> 
> What's a good mouse pad to go with this mice? It can be either soft, or hard, but i would prefer a hard pad since i seem to eating trough soft pads fairly fast.


Logitech utilizes their program to calibrate this particular mouse to any surface. There should be a few YouTube vids out there demonstrating the process of calibration.


----------



## Fatman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deepor*
> 
> If you never washed your cloth pads, please try that. The cloth is probably simply dirty. I say this because my cloth mouse pads simply don't wear at all (at least not their surface), though have to be washed regularly.


I do wash them regularly, but the edges seem wear out pretty fast. My ss QCK+ as started warping a fair bit in only 4 months.


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> I disabled those buttons in LGS, so they don't light up anymore on mine.


Umm.. the buttons don't light up. The DPI indicator below them does. Just uncheck the "always on" box under "DPI Lighting" in the LGS. Then the lights will only be on when you are changing the DPI.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> Umm.. the buttons don't light up. The DPI indicator below them does. Just uncheck the "always on" box under "DPI Lighting" in the LGS. Then the lights will only be on when you are changing the DPI.


I didn't mean the buttons. They are for DPI change, so I assumed he was talking about the indicators.


----------



## evoll88

Yes when I used to hit those buttons they used to light up and change how fast the mouse cursor would move but now they don't light up at all when I hit them and it doesn't change the speed of my cursor either,i think my mouse is messed up now.


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *evoll88*
> 
> Yes when I used to hit those buttons they used to light up and change how fast the mouse cursor would move but now they don't light up at all when I hit them and it doesn't change the speed of my cursor either,i think my mouse is messed up now.


You mean the lights just back from the buttons lit up? The buttons don't light up.

Install the Logitech Gaming Software, see if that fixes it. *Link*.


----------



## riznich48

i've seen some people say this mouse is best for palm grip and i cannot fathom how. i've tried palming and just can't get it to fit my hand comfortably.. it is not shaped for palm at all.. i hold it like this and it fits like a glove.. though i have pretty small hands for a dude. honestly this mouse really does force a claw or fingertip type grip.. which is fine since that's what i use. but as much as i love this mouse i would recommend another mouse for palming or even people with bigger hands where the sniper or dpi buttons may get in the way


----------



## MasterBash

When I use palm grip with that mouse, like my palm literally being on the back of the mouse unlike your hand, my thumb is sitting straight on sniper button unless I bend it, lame. I gotta pull back my hand just a little bit to avoid that (kinda like your second pic).


----------



## riznich48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> When I use palm grip with that mouse, like my palm literally being on the back of the mouse unlike your hand, my thumb is sitting straight on sniper button unless I bend it, lame. I gotta pull back my hand just a little bit to avoid that (kinda like your second pic).


exactly my point. even if it were shaped for palm (which it isn't) the sniper button etc would still get in the way unless you modified your grip. it's in no way a palm grip mouse. i think it suits fingertip the best (like how i hold it) to be honest but i could see claw working well too for some people

that's probably my biggest gripe with the g502 is that for having so many customization options and features it really shouldn't force people into a certain grip and heavy weight. while its shape and weight are great for me personally a lot of people have to miss out due to button placement, shape, and weight. a little more forethought could have prevented this.


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *riznich48*
> 
> exactly my point. even if it were shaped for palm (which it isn't) the sniper button etc would still get in the way unless you modified your grip. it's in no way a palm grip mouse. i think it suits fingertip the best (like how i hold it) to be honest but i could see claw working well too for some people
> 
> that's probably my biggest gripe with the g502 is that for having so many customization options and features it really shouldn't force people into a certain grip and heavy weight. while its shape and weight are great for me personally a lot of people have to miss out due to button placement, shape, and weight. a little more forethought could have prevented this.


The problem is that, at least for my grip, it leads to holding it a bit farther back then the designers intended. While I can easily reach both of the normal side buttons, I cannot reach the sniper button without modifying my grip. No big deal for me though.. I only use one of the side buttons (melee attack) when I am gaming, so I just remapped the other one to be the DPI shift button. Not that I ever really use it.

I DO have fairly large hands and what seems to be a rather unusual grip style though..


----------



## riznich48

i really think simply removing the sniper button and lowering the base weight to 100 ish grams while keeping the insertable weights system would make this a much better option for more people

i like the sniper button in theory but at least in the g502's implementation there's really no way to use it even if you wanted to as you've demonstrated.. and if you want to use a palm grip it just gets in the way .


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *riznich48*
> 
> i really think simply removing the sniper button and lowering the base weight to 100 ish grams while keeping the insertable weights system would make this a much better option for more people
> 
> i like the sniper button in theory but at least in the g502's implementation there's really no way to use it even if you wanted to as you've demonstrated.. and if you want to use a palm grip it just gets in the way .


Other than the weights and the sensor you pretty much just described the G402. As for the weight, I am a VERY high sensitivity gamer (roughly 1in / 360) and a heavier mouse just feels more natural, in fact I have all of the weights in the G502. This is also what led to my unusual grip, with the last two fingers on my mouse hand resting on the mousepad.


----------



## riznich48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> Other than the weights and the sensor you pretty much just described the G402. As for the weight, I am a VERY high sensitivity gamer (roughly 1in / 360) and a heavier mouse just feels more natural, in fact I have all of the weights in the G502. This is also what led to my unusual grip, with the last two fingers on my mouse hand resting on the mousepad.


strangely enough with the g402 i find the sniper button to be even more intrusive. i also love the g502 cable and hate the g402 cable. and the g502's amazing sensor is a selling point on its own.

besides that i too prefer heavier mice.. though the g502 feels perfect at its empty 120 ish grams to me.. and most people prefer at least down to 105 grams. i'm glad the mouse can work well for you and I but with how many features and options the mouse has it just feels like they're put to waste when so many people can't use them due to the forced grip and weight. i love the mouse.. best mouse i've used to date. i just wish more people were able to feel the same


----------



## amvnz

The 2 middle mouse feet are kind of loose on my unit (they move when cleaning the edges) and the edges of all the mouse feet get so much dust and fibers it's not funny. It's a good mouse but I wish it also had a pink rest. Got to really claw it otherwise when my hand starts to relax I find the tip of your pinky scraping the mouse pad. Maybe it's just a thin mouse. Mouse cables kind of stiff too and I haven't been able to get the massive kink out of it from when it was packaged.


----------



## riznich48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amvnz*
> 
> The 2 middle mouse feet are kind of loose on my unit (they move when cleaning the edges) and the edges of all the mouse feet get so much dust and fibers it's not funny. It's a good mouse but I wish it also had a pink rest. Got to really claw it otherwise when my hand starts to relax I find the tip of your pinky scraping the mouse pad. Maybe it's just a thin mouse. Mouse cables kind of stiff too and I haven't been able to get the massive kink out of it from when it was packaged.


luckily i've had no mouse feet issues.. though i have heard of others with them. actually i've found the feet to be very good. definitely an improvement over the g400s which were always placed on crookedly and snagged/felt bad in use.. and my savu had peeling feet brand new out of the box and deathadder has the worst of all. i think the only mouse that i've liked the stock feet better on is the xornet. i agree the g502 feet look weird but in terms of pure feel i think they're quite good. also as always there are 3rd party choices and logitech is great with sending free replacements. i wouldn't use stiff to describe the cable. i find it to be very good compared to most other mice cables. but to each their own.


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amvnz*
> 
> The 2 middle mouse feet are kind of loose on my unit (they move when cleaning the edges) and the edges of all the mouse feet get so much dust and fibers it's not funny. It's a good mouse but I wish it also had a pink rest. Got to really claw it otherwise when my hand starts to relax I find the tip of your pinky scraping the mouse pad. Maybe it's just a thin mouse. Mouse cables kind of stiff too and I haven't been able to get the massive kink out of it from when it was packaged.


As for the feet.. my understanding is that that was just an issue with an early production run. The feet on mine are all rounded on the edges and stuck down nice and tight.

As for the pinkie rest thing.. the LACK of that was a big deciding factor in me getting this mouse. I am a very high sensitivity gamer (roughly 1in / 360) and the pinkie plays a big role in stability and my ability to properly control that kind of speed.


----------



## semantics

Yeah i replaced my mousefeet awhile ago for hotline ones. The feet i had on mine were stuck on there very well took forever to get off. I replaced them mostly because they gathered too much dust the .6mm hotline competition ones seems to gather much less dust so it worked out.


----------



## evoll88

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> You mean the lights just back from the buttons lit up? The buttons don't light up.
> 
> Install the Logitech Gaming Software, see if that fixes it. *Link*.


That fixed the problem,mouse works and I can change the dpi again,thanks a lot.


----------



## amvnz

I must have an early production model. Mouse feels really inconsistent in terms of movement and there's audible scraping when moving it around. Drives me nuts. Seems to be exposed glue all around the edges gathering up fibers and then scratching up the feet. The little top middle feet is lifting on one corner as well. Might have to look at some ghetto mouse feet methods (don't want to buy $8 mouse feet and pay $50 to ship them to new zealand). When I first got it I replaced my DA2013. The feeling of this mouse blew the DA2013 away. So other than the mouse feet issue, this is the best mouse I have ever used.


----------



## a_ak57

Well, have finally used one and have mixed feelings. Still don't care for the g4m3r aesthetic, but I actually like the shape and the sensor feels good. It's a lot more comfortable for claw than I expected. But man, the weight. I knew it'd be heavy, but after being used to the FK it's like moving around an anchor.


----------



## riznich48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amvnz*
> 
> I must have an early production model. Mouse feels really inconsistent in terms of movement and there's audible scraping when moving it around. Drives me nuts. Seems to be exposed glue all around the edges gathering up fibers and then scratching up the feet. The little top middle feet is lifting on one corner as well. Might have to look at some ghetto mouse feet methods (don't want to buy $8 mouse feet and pay $50 to ship them to new zealand). When I first got it I replaced my DA2013. The feeling of this mouse blew the DA2013 away. So other than the mouse feet issue, this is the best mouse I have ever used.


as stated previously logitech has the best customer service in the biz. if you feel like you have a dud just give them a call. they will most likely send you a replacement no questions asked.


----------



## mitavreb

And may I know what mousepad you are using? Because the G502 seems to be a
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amvnz*
> 
> I must have an early production model. Mouse feels really inconsistent in terms of movement and there's audible scraping when moving it around. Drives me nuts. Seems to be exposed glue all around the edges gathering up fibers and then scratching up the feet. The little top middle feet is lifting on one corner as well. Might have to look at some ghetto mouse feet methods (don't want to buy $8 mouse feet and pay $50 to ship them to new zealand). When I first got it I replaced my DA2013. The feeling of this mouse blew the DA2013 away. So other than the mouse feet issue, this is the best mouse I have ever used.


This might work for you. I think they have free shipping to New Zealand. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G502-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition-/121402762810#shpCntId

And may I know what mousepad you are using? It's just that I'm trying to find a mousepad that doesn't cause the G502's mouse feet to peel off.


----------



## MasterBash

I believe the mouse feet peeling off was a problem with the early production and it has been fixed since then.

Logitech sent me new mouse feet for free.


----------



## ranseed

Anyway to use onboard macros?







That's the only reason I decided to buy it and I can't even do that.


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ranseed*
> 
> Anyway to use onboard macros?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's the only reason I decided to buy it and I can't even do that.


What exactly is your problem? Macros should save to the onboard memory.


----------



## semantics

He's probably looking for advance macros which can't be done without drivers. IE the mouse in software mode with LGS not just the mouse alone. Btw the LUA macro system is quite powerful but you do need to run it in software mode not on-board. Not sure there is any mouse that can do advance macros without some level of software support.


----------



## ranseed

My g9x could do the macro in the old setpoint. I just wanted a button to be held down and then released when pressed again.


----------



## deepor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ranseed*
> 
> My g9x could do the macro in the old setpoint. I just wanted a button to be held down and then released when pressed again.


You should describe what you want to do exactly because from what I understand about your problem, that should work.

I don't have the G502 here (sent it back after a short try as it was too heavy etc.), but I have the G402.

If you talk about putting a keyboard key onto a mouse button, that works over here (on my G402). It does this without any software running, so still works when connecting the mouse to a PC running Linux for example, which means no Windows or Logitech drivers anywhere. The mouse simulates two devices when connected to a PC, a mouse and a keyboard, and can do single key presses and simple macros completely by itself.

I bet it's the same on the G502.


----------



## ranseed

I just wanted two macros. One where I press left scroll wheel and it acts as if pressing CTRL repeatedly until released. The other is I want right scroll to hold down C until pressed again. I don't believe there is a way to do this onboard, it's only doable through software mode.


----------



## ShaCanX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> Install the Logitech Gaming Software, see if that fixes it. *Link*.


Didn't even remember to check for a software/firmware update for mine as I was too busy/happy using it, this post reminded me thanks for the reminder. +rep


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShaCanX*
> 
> Didn't even remember to check for a software/firmware update for mine as I was too busy/happy using it, this post reminded me thanks for the reminder. +rep


Only download the 8.55 LGS... Don't bother with the new one. There isn't a different firmware in the newest version, but they added some extra junk in with the software that doesn't really need to be there.


----------



## ShaCanX

Ok thanks 8.55 it is then.


----------



## ooxxy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ranseed*
> 
> I just wanted two macros. One where I press left scroll wheel and it acts as if pressing CTRL repeatedly until released. The other is I want right scroll to hold down C until pressed again. I don't believe there is a way to do this onboard, it's only doable through software mode.


Yep, there is no repeating/playback options for on board memory macros, only for game detection. This applies to all mice using LGS.

Even though it was an option in setpoint for the older mice.


----------



## x7007

Software Version: 8.56.109

• Digia QT - Application and User Interface Framework
• Microsoft Runtime Libraries - Application and Hardware Support
• Apple Bonjour - Network Discovery Support for Logitech Arx Control

Updated Description:
Added support for the Logitech Arx Control App
New Input Analysis feature for the G710+, G502 and G402
Expanded SDK support. See http://gaming.logitech.com/developers
Improved microphone chat clarity
Fixed: Speed Test should not see spike after a change in DPI
Fixed: LGS G-Keys/LCD is unresponsive after remote desktop connection has ended

Can't you uninstall the other things you don't need ?

it seem it fixes something for us


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Software Version: 8.56.109
> 
> • Digia QT - Application and User Interface Framework
> • Microsoft Runtime Libraries - Application and Hardware Support
> • Apple Bonjour - Network Discovery Support for Logitech Arx Control
> 
> Updated Description:
> Added support for the Logitech Arx Control App
> New Input Analysis feature for the G710+, G502 and G402
> Expanded SDK support. See http://gaming.logitech.com/developers
> Improved microphone chat clarity
> Fixed: Speed Test should not see spike after a change in DPI
> Fixed: LGS G-Keys/LCD is unresponsive after remote desktop connection has ended
> 
> Can't you uninstall the other things you don't need ?
> 
> it seem it fixes something for us


Negative. The big changes for the G502 were in 8.55. The input analysis feature is just a new area of the LGS. I don't keep LGS installed, so it means nothing for me. I just installed 8.55 to get the firmware update and uninstalled everything immediately after.


----------



## r0ach

I'm still waiting on a G502 software or firmware update to fix these issues:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> The G502 sensor is also plagued by either software or firmware problems. If I load up the Avior 7000 software, put in settings, then uninstall the software, I get pretty consistent results each time. If I load the exact same settings on all three profiles of the G502, each profile tracks differently. One profile will feel faster, slower, less or more sensitive than the other. Then if you set profile three on the G502 to 1000hz and uninstall the software, it will randomly change back to 500hz. It's pretty obvious it has software issues of some kind.


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I'm still waiting on a G502 software or firmware update to fix these issues:


Those are not issues I have had. I ran my mouse for 3 days without the software when I first installed Win10, because the software didn't work yet. Once it let me install the software there was no change to how the mouse responded.


----------



## Ysbzqu6572

Same here.. after I uninstall the software.. polling rate stays the same.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Negative. The big changes for the G502 were in 8.55. The input analysis feature is just a new area of the LGS. I don't keep LGS installed, so it means nothing for me. I just installed 8.55 to get the firmware update and uninstalled everything immediately after.


Actually, the firmware changes were in 8.53.186, not in 8.55.
8.55 has the exact same firmware update as 186. I was already using 8.53.186 then decided to update to 8.55, ran the FW updater and it said I was already up to date.

The current firmware is v88.2.16.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Actually, the firmware changes were in 8.53.186, not in 8.55.
> 8.55 has the exact same firmware update as 186. I was already using 8.53.186 then decided to update to 8.55, ran the FW updater and it said I was already up to date.
> 
> The current firmware is v88.2.16.


It looks like 8.55 was a roll up.

8.55:
What's New:
Updates G502 firmware
Enhances lighting control for the G logo
Improves LED power management
Fixes erratic-cursor issue
Resolves inadvertent button-clicking issue
Added new game profiles: Hawken, Call of Duty: Ghosts, Blacklight: Retribution, Sniper: Ghost Warrior, Battlefield 4, Batman: Arkham Origins, Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag
New device support for G502 gaming mouse and G90 gaming mouse
Surface Tuning support added for G502 gaming mouse
Fixed backlighting issue
Improved device selector
Improved features function

8.53:
- Updates G502 firmware.
- Enhances lighting control for the G logo.
- Improves LED power management.
- Fixes erratic-cursor issue.
- Resolves inadvertent button-clicking issue.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> Those are not issues I have had. I ran my mouse for 3 days without the software when I first installed Win10, because the software didn't work yet. Once it let me install the software there was no change to how the mouse responded.


with your sensitivity it doesn't matter at all


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> with your sensitivity it doesn't matter at all


Just because I play with a sensitivity of about 1in / 360 doesn't mean I can't feel a change in the way the mouse responds.









I have been playing with this level of sensitivity for years, I know when it feels right and when it doesn't. If anything, playing at a higher sensitivity would AMPLIFY any changes to the way it responds.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> Just because I play with a sensitivity of about 1in / 360 doesn't mean I can't feel a change in the way the mouse responds.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have been playing with this level of sensitivity for years, I know when it feels right and when it doesn't. If anything, playing at a higher sensitivity would AMPLIFY any changes to the way it responds.


Actually, it's the opposite. With higher sensitivity those same differences are spread over a much smaller mouse movement. With a very low sensitivity, you'll have a much larger stroke to notice any deviation. It just gives you a longer sample per movement for the changes to present themselves.


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Actually, it's the opposite. With higher sensitivity those same differences are spread over a much smaller mouse movement. With a very low sensitivity, you'll have a much larger stroke to notice any deviation. It just gives you a longer sample per movement for the changes to present themselves.


Ok, I stand corrected on that front, but as used to the small movements and precision as I am, I still say I would notice any changes to how the mouse responds. It may not be as drastic at my sensitivity, but I am sure I WOULD have noticed if it changed, just as I noticed immediately if I bump the DPI buttons.

What you guys (@DivineDark / @TK421) also need to understand is that because of my level of sensitivity, I do not grip the mouse the same way you low-sens guys do, so if you try turning it to my speed without modifying your grip of course it will be totally uncontrollable. Even I can't properly control this level of sensitivity with a more standard grip, and I have used this speed for years. The biggest change is that the last two fingers of my mouse hand are on the mat AT ALL TIMES. Those fingers play a huge role in stability and steering. The heel of the palm sits on the mat and never moves, my elbow sits on a book (to raise it to the same height as the rest of the desk surface) on the slide-out extension thing of my desk.

My grip looks like a fairly normal claw/fingertip hybrid from the side..


But from the top..


----------



## GetToTheChopaa

I got this mouse yesterday from BestBuy. Pcpartpicker had Dell selling it for ~50$ and they price matched that, so I thought it was a pretty good deal. For the last year or so I used a Gigabyte Aivia Krypton and was very happy with it, the only extra thing I wanted was more buttons and the G502 seemed to fit the bill. Krypton is about the size of the G502, maybe slightly smaller and even though my hands are on the large side, it feels pretty good in my hand. Now that I think about it I wish the Krypton had a thumb rest! Also, I'm used to high DPI, usually play at around 3000, depending on game and desktop/browsing even higher (5000-6000). This on a 27'' 1440p panel @96Hz.
After a day of using the G502 I'm almost sure I'm gonna return it. The thing that I seem to not be able to get over is the scroll wheel, it feels like it's about to fall off, the click is too noisy and distracting and the tactile feedback is too dramatic, it feels like I'm hitting a wall when I scroll a notch. Not to mention the wheel's metallic, shinny finish! This is compared to the Krypton, obviously, who's scroll wheel is not noisy, it doesn't wobble, the tactile feedback is subtle and it's covered in rubber like material which provides excellent grip .
Also, the Krypton feels smoother, but that may be the mouse pad surface or simply the fact that I'm more used to the Krypton. Add the fact that the Krypton feels as solid as a tank, making the G502 feel cheap, really.
I'm not disappointed because I had no expectations, but it does not feel like an upgrade to the Krypton. Most likely I'll keep it for a few more days, maybe it'll grow on me. Now I only wish the Krypton had a thumb rest and more configurable buttons! Never thought I was going to be this picky about a mouse, though...
Anyone else coming from different mice thinks the G502s build gives it a somewhat cheap and wobbly feel?


----------



## LocutusH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GetToTheChopaa*
> 
> I got this mouse yesterday from BestBuy. Pcpartpicker had Dell selling it for ~50$ and they price matched that, so I thought it was a pretty good deal. For the last year or so I used a Gigabyte Aivia Krypton and was very happy with it, the only extra thing I wanted was more buttons and the G502 seemed to fit the bill. Krypton is about the size of the G502, maybe slightly smaller and even though my hands are on the large side, it feels pretty good in my hand. Now that I think about it I wish the Krypton had a thumb rest! Also, I'm used to high DPI, usually play at around 3000, depending on game and desktop/browsing even higher (5000-6000). This on a 27'' 1440p panel @96Hz.
> After a day of using the G502 I'm almost sure I'm gonna return it. The thing that I seem to not be able to get over is the scroll wheel, it feels like it's about to fall off, the click is too noisy and distracting and the tactile feedback is too dramatic, it feels like I'm hitting a wall when I scroll a notch. Not to mention the wheel's metallic, shinny finish! This is compared to the Krypton, obviously, who's scroll wheel is not noisy, it doesn't wobble, the tactile feedback is subtle and it's covered in rubber like material which provides excellent grip .
> Also, the Krypton feels smoother, but that may be the mouse pad surface or simply the fact that I'm more used to the Krypton. Add the fact that the Krypton feels as solid as a tank, making the G502 feel cheap, really.
> I'm not disappointed because I had no expectations, but it does not feel like an upgrade to the Krypton. Most likely I'll keep it for a few more days, maybe it'll grow on me. Now I only wish the Krypton had a thumb rest and more configurable buttons! Never thought I was going to be this picky about a mouse, though...
> Anyone else coming from different mice thinks the G502s build gives it a somewhat cheap and wobbly feel?


Tbh, that gigabyte seems to be just an n+1 el cheapo mouses built around the avago laser sensor... They are really flooding the market with them. (however i didnt really have a problem with the sensor itself, but it was built in an MS-3).

Regarding the G502 wheel: You have to use it in free roll. Thats it. If you dont, its a crap. But why would you want to use it in rattling mode... binding anything to the wheel is nonsens for any gaming, and in windows the free roll is a bless.

I dont really have any quality issues with the G502. Its very solid built, unlike my previous naos 7000.


----------



## MasterBash

I love the G502 sensor so much, however I find the mouse so unusable so I keep switching between my DA2013 (lightweight, better mouse wheel, hyperglides mouse feet) and G502 (sensor, rubber on the sides feel nice too)


----------



## GetToTheChopaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> Tbh, that gigabyte seems to be just an n+1 el cheapo mouses built around the avago laser sensor... They are really flooding the market with them. (however i didnt really have a problem with the sensor itself, but it was built in an MS-3).
> 
> Regarding the G502 wheel: You have to use it in free roll. Thats it. If you dont, its a crap. But why would you want to use it in rattling mode... binding anything to the wheel is nonsens for any gaming, and in windows the free roll is a bless.
> 
> I dont really have any quality issues with the G502. Its very solid built, unlike my previous naos 7000.


Well, I have both the Gigabyte Krypton and Logitech G502 right next to me and the Gigabyte feels anything but cheap, while the G502 wobbles and rattles like there's no tomorrow. And it's all that scroll wheel....
As for using the wheel in free roll, I don't think I can! I need some tactile feedback, as long as it's silent and I almost always bind some action to the scroll wheel, press and up/down. Why would it be nonsense to use the scroll wheel in games, I wonder? Not that it matters... After all, to each his own!


----------



## Ysbzqu6572

Can someone somehow perform test whether it helps to uninstall logitech gaming software ? Or actually hurts ?

I feel mouse is slightly acting differently with and without software.. not sure which is better though.


----------



## riznich48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GetToTheChopaa*
> 
> Well, I have both the Gigabyte Krypton and Logitech G502 right next to me and the Gigabyte feels anything but cheap, while the G502 wobbles and rattles like there's no tomorrow. And it's all that scroll wheel....
> As for using the wheel in free roll, I don't think I can! I need some tactile feedback, as long as it's silent and I almost always bind some action to the scroll wheel, press and up/down. Why would it be nonsense to use the scroll wheel in games, I wonder? Not that it matters... After all, to each his own!


mine doesn't wobble or rattle.. perhaps you got a dud? try a couple more out at best buy


----------



## mitavreb

Mine actually rattles but that happens when I lift it up and shake it. During gameplay I don't feel any rattle at all on the scroll wheel.


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> Mine actually rattles but that happens when I lift it up and shake it. During gameplay I don't feel any rattle at all on the scroll wheel.


Yeah, same here. Nothing unless I pick it up and shake it, HARD. Even then its barely noticeable, at least with a headset on.


----------



## GetToTheChopaa

I guess I'll have to head back to Bestbuy and try another one before making a decision. Scroll wheel rattles at the slightest shake and sometimes the right click as well. Of course, I don't notice it when I'm gaming (headset ) but I'm not always gaming


----------



## x7007

Mine does not shake either.

I can hear it moving when moving the mouse Very Fast. but it's not shaking like hokey


----------



## cyan

Is the firmware version on LGS = currently installed on the mouse
or firmware version that will be install if I click "Update Firmware" ?

Thank you


----------



## Falkentyne

The update only works if ur using a LGS that has the new firmware. The 'check for firmware" button doesn't do anything at all. It's probably nonfunctiojnal.

The most recent firmware is 8.8.216 or something (the one in LCS 8.55), although it came out originally in 8.53.186 (forgot the exact version but it was a .186 at the end).


----------



## MasterBash

So I modified mine a bit, both mouse button and middle buttons are held by 2 screws. I decided to cut each buttons after the first screw, as the second one seemed to be useless. Therefore I shaved a bit of weight when it comes to the plastic on buttons and the screws.

I also cut 1/3 of the door and removed the magnets and glued the door instead. I also removed the "tunnel" plastic part, the one thats under the G logo thats used for the light. I removed the sniper button because it was in the way. The blue thing is nearly impossible to remove, its really glued there, so dont bother.

No idea how much it weighs now, but its quite light. I didnt cover the sniper button just yet, I will do it later tonight, but every works on the mouse.

I wish I could do something about the mouse wheel now. The wheel is still heavy and if I could mod it I could possibly reduce the weight even more.


----------



## Wind

Reading through this thread, I noticed people were saying to leave the surface tuning at factory default. Have these issues been resolved? I ran it with my QcK+ and the LoD was the lowest I've ever seen in a mouse. I'm just wondering if i should go back to factory default or if it's safe to use the surface tuning with the new firmwares


----------



## DivineDark

Profile 1 with a default surface tune is the setup that has consistently been reported as stable.


----------



## Wind

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Profile 1 with a default surface tune is the setup that has consistently been reported as stable.


So I should modify profile 1 to my liking instead of using the other 2, and also use the default surface for best performance?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wind*
> 
> So I should modify profile 1 to my liking instead of using the other 2, and also use the default surface for best performance?


That's what I took away from it.


----------



## zantetheo

Tuned G502 wth the profile of G440 for a month now no problems at all


----------



## MasterBash

I am sure my mouse is at most 110g right now, probably more like ~108g with everything I removed but I dont have a scale for such small things. I dont like the mousewheel because it sticks out so much compared to other mice so I am wondering if I can grind it without affecting the clicks (tilting, fast wheel thingy and the middle click).

Anyone know?

By the way the mouse feels a lot more comfortable without the sniper button but I have no idea what to cover it with, anyone? I just got a piece of "smooth" rubber and it doesnt feel really good.


----------



## mitavreb

^^ Post pics of your G502. Would love to see what it looks like. Maybe I can remove some parts on the mouse to make it lighter because I'm still finding it quite heavy even though the Taito has helped a lot when moving it around on the pad but when lifting it up and the small movements I need to make it's kinda tiring on the hand.


----------



## DiaSin

I'm so used to heavy mice that it confuses me to see people whining about it, or even taking parts off of the mouse. I have all the weights in mine.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> I'm so used to heavy mice that it confuses me to see people whining about it, or even taking parts off of the mouse. I have all the weights in mine.


A couple things here. What sensitivity do you use? Have you measured your cm/360 in game? What is it?


----------



## king volcano

This mouse is one of the greatest I have ever used. (logitech MX bluetooth user.) I have been using it since launch, and its never given me any problems! This is a 10/10 mouse guys!


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> A couple things here. What sensitivity do you use? Have you measured your cm/360 in game? What is it?


About 1in / 360.. so.. maybe 2.6cm? Wait.. didn't we go over this already... Oh yeah. This post and the couple above it.


----------



## DivineDark

Ah. Sorry about that. I have some trouble keeping everyone straight.

Because we've had this conversation, I'm guessing I've said that your high sensitivity is why you don't have as much an issue with the weight as someone like Metal who has a 70cm/360 sens. The difference between throwing a 130g piece of plastic two feet across your mouse pad in an instant is much more exhausting over time than something that weighs 90g to 105g.


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> Ah. Sorry about that. I have some trouble keeping everyone straight.
> 
> Because we've had this conversation, I'm guessing I've said that your high sensitivity is why you don't have as much an issue with the weight as someone like Metal who has a 70cm/360 sens. The difference between throwing a 130g piece of plastic two feet across your mouse pad in an instant is much more exhausting over time than something that weighs 90g to 105g.


I get your point. I guess I am just confused why people buy a mouse this heavy if they have that kind of play style. Is the sensor really that far ahead of everything else? I mean... sure its the best sensor I have used so far, but I figured most of that was the fact that I went from a Corsair M65 with the avago 9800 to this. Previous to that it was a G9x, before that a G5 and before that just generic optical mice.

Also.. the fact that I just changed my avatar away from the Initial D image to my new one probably didn't help with the recognition thing.


----------



## riznich48

people in general get upset if you like something that they don't like.. therefor if you like or do well with heavy mice it will make them mad and they will try to prove to you why their way is superior because it really bothers them that your preference is different than theirs


----------



## MasterBash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> ^^ Post pics of your G502. Would love to see what it looks like. Maybe I can remove some parts on the mouse to make it lighter because I'm still finding it quite heavy even though the Taito has helped a lot when moving it around on the pad but when lifting it up and the small movements I need to make it's kinda tiring on the hand.


Well, I cant be bothered to take my mouse apart once again, unless it has to do something with the mousewheel to lower its weight, and most of it are inside the mouse itself, anyway...



Also note that the blue part under the mouse is extremely hard to remove, so I wouldnt bother. I "damaged" mine trying. However, because of the way I damaged it (created random bumps with the rubber), it made the weight a lot tighter and much harder to remove, so I can use the weight without the door, if I wanted to.

So other than the 4 buttons and the door that I cut, I removed 8 screws, the led "tunnel" thing, the sniper button, 2 magnets. I wanted to remove the DPI led thingy and the DPI buttons, but the mouse looked awful when put back together, with the gap it left when removing the buttons.

Its easy to mess up, be careful not to bend buttons and break them. They are fragile. Also, once you are done, make sure to go over any edges under the mouse and use sand paper, if you find any sharp edges, that way it wont drag on your mousepad (this includes the door, if cut)

If this mouse was done right, with the buttons being part of the shell rather than screwed on and all the other useless stuff like the super heavy mousewheel, I am sure this mouse could weigh like 90-100g.

I will let others mess with the mouse wheel, if they wish to... No idea what to do with it, yet.


----------



## Ysbzqu6572

^ this is crazy.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H4wk*
> 
> ^ this is crazy.


It's almost as crazy as releasing a mouse with a weight system that weighs 121g+ when it's empty.


----------



## Ysbzqu6572

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> It's almost as crazy as releasing a mouse with a weight system that weighs 121g+ when it's empty.


is it ?

Legendary Logitech G5 was 128g.
I like the weight, I have G5 at work and G502 at home.

But nobody cared about mouse weight so many years ago.. its just lately, people think they will be better gamers or something with less weight.. its just placebo.
Oh and maybe girls are not strong enough to move heavier mouse


----------



## DivineDark

I really don't think it's placebo. I've never been one to care about weight of a mouse. Hell, I used a G500 for a while and that thing was a tank. However, since I moved from 800DPI to 400DPI and finally got my hands on mice like the the Zowie lineup and Roccat's new efforts, even the G402, it's really a pain to move back to the G502. I was actually playing BF4 with Metal tonight and I straight up said "I hate this mouse" in the middle of the game. It was that noticeable in the middle of a fire fight when moving from my Zowie AM to the G502.

Maybe it's something that I'd get used to over time, but why? There are other mice out there that work nearly as well and don't require me to swing a 121G weight around my mouse pad.


----------



## Ysbzqu6572

Its your choice.. either you get perfect sensor with few grams heavier mouse, or not that great sensor with lighter mouse.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H4wk*
> 
> Its your choice.. either you get perfect sensor with few grams heavier mouse, or not that great sensor with lighter mouse.


In what world is the 3310 a "not that great sensor"? Show me numbers and tests that validate your claim that the existence of the 3366 makes the 3310 bad. I own every one of the mice with the 3310, the AM010, the MLT04, and the 3366, and I promise you... There isn't much difference. The only real stand out is the MLT04 and that's just because it has a very different feel to the cursor than the others.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H4wk*
> 
> is it ?
> 
> Legendary Logitech G5 was 128g.
> I like the weight, I have G5 at work and G502 at home.
> 
> But nobody cared about mouse weight so many years ago.. its just lately, people think they will be better gamers or something with less weight.. its just placebo.
> Oh and maybe girls are not strong enough to move heavier mouse


I just pulled my G5 out and it weighs 112g without any weights or cartridge.

The G5 was never ever anything close to legendary. It was part of the early generation mice with laser sensors with abysmal perfect control speed. There's a perfectly logical reason to want a lighter mouse but there isn't one for wanting a heavier mouse.


----------



## ooxxy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H4wk*
> 
> Its your choice.. either you get perfect sensor with few grams heavier mouse, or not that great sensor with lighter mouse.


Perfect sensor doesn't equal a perfect mouse.

If that was the case this mouse would be selling like hotcakes. And it's not, probably because a lot of people don't want to use a rock. Doesn't matter how good the sensor is if it feels like crap in your hand.


----------



## Ysbzqu6572

That's your opinion..
Also mouse is not very cheap, probably that's why it isn't selling like hotcakes.


----------



## detto87

To me the G402 already was a bit heavy and I cannot play as I wanted to with a mouse that's too heavy.
Of course if the shape works wonders then the weight gets compensated because I can lift it easier.
So I would still say that it's preference depending on the shape and weight combined because grips differ.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> In what world is the 3310 a "not that great sensor"? Show me numbers and tests that validate your claim that the existence of the 3366 makes the 3310 bad. I own every one of the mice with the 3310, the AM010, the MLT04, and the 3366, and I promise you... There isn't much difference. The only real stand out is the MLT04 and that's just because it has a very different feel to the cursor than the others.


"A very different feel to the cursor than the others."
Without going too much off topic, but I'd like to ask you how you notice that exactly, or what you would say differs.


----------



## ooxxy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H4wk*
> 
> That's your opinion..
> Also mouse is not very cheap, probably that's why it isn't selling like hotcakes.


Well that depends on which country. In Australia it's priced very competitively, can get it for $60 at most stores.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> To me the G402 already was a bit heavy and I cannot play as I wanted to with a mouse that's too heavy.
> Of course if the shape works wonders then the weight gets compensated because I can lift it easier.
> So I would still say that it's preference depending on the shape and weight combined because grips differ.
> "A very different feel to the cursor than the others."
> Without going too much off topic, but I'd like to ask you how you notice that exactly, or what you would say differs.


It's hard to explain. For some reason, the IE3.0 feels like it's physically connected to your hand. Every motion, every twitch, every minor change translates in a pure way to the cursor. For lack of a better term, it's perfectly raw.


----------



## MasterBash

If someone can tell me how to remove the scroll wheel, I will mod it. I dont want to screw it up by breaking something. I am sure I can remove the metal stuff and put rubber around it instead. Man, I would be able to get the mouse to get than 100g while having all the available features.


----------



## hza

I wonder how you guys know which mouse sells good or not. Just curious...


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> I wonder how you guys know which mouse sells good or not. Just curious...


He doesn't know, he's completely talking out his ass.

Looking at newegg the 502 has twice as many reviews as the g400s and g500s (and a higher score). On amazon the 502 almost the same amount of reviews in 6 months as the G400s which has been out more than a year longer than the 502, so I'd say the 502 is selling pretty damn well. It also has almost the same review score (4 1/2 stars), with nearly identical distribution of stars.

So, yeah saying it 'isn't selling well at all' is pretty much bs. It looks to be selling as well or better than any previous top tier gaming mouse they've put out.


----------



## metal571

The G500 was one of the best selling mice of all time and was constantly recommended by lots of review sites and users.

It's trash, one of the worst mice that has ever been made.

I'm not saying the G502 is the same, but you can't go by that stuff. CPI count sells. So does good looks. People don't even know companies like Zowie exist, unfortunately.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> It's hard to explain. For some reason, the IE3.0 feels like it's physically connected to your hand. Every motion, every twitch, every minor change translates in a pure way to the cursor. For lack of a better term, it's perfectly raw.


Because you probably own both... Do you feel the same about WMO?


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Because you probably own both... Do you feel the same about WMO?


I don't have a WMO. I might have had one years and years ago, but way before I actually cared about what mouse I was using.


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Because you probably own both... Do you feel the same about WMO?


Those 3000 fps less on the wmo make it feel different from the 3.0 x80. I think there is a 1.1SE that comes with the 9000fps mlt04 but they are quite expensive and ultra rare.


----------



## metal571

Aren't there X80 1.1As?


----------



## vss vintorez

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Aren't there X80 1.1As?


Maybe but I am not sure if the x80 1.1a is equipped with the tuned mlt04 for 9k fps. If the box says 1.1SE yes, that's the only thing I know

that is the box it came with the mouse.


----------



## boogdud

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The G500 was one of the best selling mice of all time and was constantly recommended by lots of review sites and users.
> 
> It's trash, one of the worst mice that has ever been made.
> 
> I'm not saying the G502 is the same, but you can't go by that stuff. CPI count sells. So does good looks. People don't even know companies like Zowie exist, unfortunately.


Yup, exactly. Which is why it's hilarious for someone to say it's selling poorly. We might want our boutique mice to sell better and the products we think are marketed to the "masses" to sell according to how we would rate them, but it's just not the case.

At least the 502 aside from the obnoxious weight and annoying wheel is a very very good mouse. So i suppose that's an improvement.


----------



## riznich48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The G500 was one of the best selling mice of all time and was constantly recommended by lots of review sites and users.
> 
> It's trash, one of the worst mice that has ever been made.
> 
> I'm not saying the G502 is the same, but you can't go by that stuff. CPI count sells. So does good looks. People don't even know companies like Zowie exist, unfortunately.


in that particular case that he posted though it's completely correct. g400s and g500s are trash compared to the g502


----------



## metal571

Actually the G400s is quite good


----------



## riznich48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Actually the G400s is quite good


worse sensor than g502
much much worse shape than g502
worse cable
worse scroll
still heavy enough to be useless to light mouse gamers

outclassed


----------



## metal571

Bleh, the weight alone would make me choose the G400s. IMO the G402 is the mouse to have, not the G502 right now if I was to go with a Logitech. I just prefer ambi shapes.


----------



## riznich48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Bleh, the wait alone would make me choose the G400s. IMO the G402 is the mouse to have, not the G502 right now if I was to go with a Logitech. I just prefer ambi shapes.


if the g502 is too heavy for you then the g400s probably is too

g100s is a better no frills lightweight mouse than the g402
g502 is a better full featured heavy mouse than the g402

to me the g402 is outclassed by the g100s and g502 depending on if you want basic/lightweight or featured/heavy .. it's uselessly in the middle with a gimmicky gyroscope


----------



## metal571

Gimmicky? Not at all. The G402 feels quite accurate, and many people, myself included, need that extra PCS.


----------



## riznich48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Gimmicky? Not at all. The G402 feels quite accurate, and many people, myself included, need that extra PCS.


then the g502 would be better . surely if you're fine with 110 ish grams then weight isn't a big issue to you and you can live with 120 ish grams .. plus you get higher pcs, better sensor period without the flaws reported by the gyro, non-horrible cable, for not much price increase

g402 has the worst of both mice imo.. the clutter, weight, and price of the g502 .. and the cable and (worse implemented) sensor of the g100s .. and the good things it has from each mouse are done worse

just my opinion. i don't see the point to its existence.


----------



## metal571

How is the sensor worse implemented? It feels as accurate as any of my 3310 mice. I really don't understand why there is so much backlash over the fusion engine. Works great in my experience.

That said, I like light mice, and that's why the FK1 and Avior 7000 are my staples right now. Those are the real mice to go to for lower weights and FPS play. I didn't buy my 402, Logi sent me one.


----------



## FreeElectron

I am hoping Logitech release a new mouse with the 3366 sensor but lighter (90 to 100gm)


----------



## Falkentyne

I actually love the weight (stock) on the G502. Considering my Black edition DA (which is HEAVIER than the classic DA) feels like a hollow shell now (I do have big hands), I love me some meat on my mice.

Now, I can't get used to loading the entire G502 with weights, though....that's a little much.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> The G500 was one of the best selling mice of all time and was constantly recommended by lots of review sites and users.
> 
> It's trash, one of the worst mice that has ever been made.
> 
> I'm not saying the G502 is the same, but you can't go by that stuff. CPI count sells. So does good looks. People don't even know companies like Zowie exist, unfortunately.


Upset cause the 500 is not a mouse made exactly for you and/or your playstyle leads you to talk bs as usual. Early Roccats, early Mionix', Kinzus, most RATs and whatnot are the worst _gaming mice_ ever made. You know that.


----------



## DivineDark

It doesn't really have anything to do with the G500 not being for him. There were a lot of things against the G500.

1.) The sensor: Been covered a lot. I don't think it's terrible, but there are better
2.) Weight: Heavy
3.) Sensor location. The sensor was under your fingers. This caused a feeling of acceleration because of the wrist/arm arc
4.) Finish: love it or hate it
5.) Size: Same as the G400 without the benefits of the considerably lighter weight
6.) Scroll wheel: Outside of the G9x, IMO this is the worst scroll wheel to ever grace a mouse.
7.) Price: At the time, this mouse was pretty pricey for what you got. The G9x was more expensive, but provided other benefits that the G500 didn't offer that set it apart.

Some of this stuff is definitely personal preference, but everything combined makes it very difficult to recommend this device to anyone. I used it for a while, but it didn't take long to realize that if I wanted that shape, the G400 was better in almost every possible way. Even if you like heavier mice, the G400 still provides other benefits that make it preferable to the G500 overall.


----------



## metal571

In earlier batches the switches I believe also had a reliability problem. And like divine said, Dat scroll. Terrible. Keep trying to put words in my mouth though when I'm clearly stating an opinion shared by just about everyone on the forum. The G500 wasn't good.


----------



## hza

I agree with DD on most part. I didn't put words in your mouth, metal. I just seen players doing a very good job using it vs. people with probably less good mice, myself included. Feelingwise I would say, for me it was an upgraded from Xai in almost every point. You can't imagine how fast I returned the 2 G400 I had (with and without angle snapping). And that's mostly because I raised my sensitivity over the years. Aiming out of the wrist, so to say, is just more comfortable than moving your whole arm. And you can get as good as you are with low(er) sens. I did it and I know people who had higher sens than me (up to 2x my sens) and kicked my ass nontheless. And that was when I was stilly playing CS 1.6 ~ 6-10 hours a day. A mouse will surely help you to get better, but it won't make you Extreme Masters champion. You can't assume everyone shares your playstyle. And about the wheel I really believe you won't want something else after you got used to that kind of wheel. G500 is just not complete trash as you almost always try to let it look like. That's all.


----------



## pr1me

I love the g502 wheel and hope they put it in their next mice







.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pr1me*
> 
> I love the g502 wheel and hope they put it in their next mice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Am I sense a lil' bit of trolling?


----------



## pr1me

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> Am I sense a lil' bit of trolling?


actually... that was genuine lol.
I know some people dislike it, but i enjoy it a lot.
That free spin is awesome, it's useless for gaming, but the cranted mode is there, so you don't really lose anything.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pr1me*
> 
> actually... that was genuine lol.
> I know some people dislike it, but i enjoy it a lot.
> That free spin is awesome, it's useless for gaming, but the cranted mode is there, so you don't really lose anything.


Both mode are terrible to use, and the switch underneath the wheel is crap, especially for gaming.


----------



## DivineDark

I don't mind the wheel, but that might be due to the fact that I'm just grateful they didn't put the G9X and G500 version of the free scroll wheel in the mouse. The only thing that bothers me about the mouse wheel in game is lifting and setting the mouse down in rapid succession causes the wheel to clunk.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> I agree with DD on most part. I didn't put words in your mouth, metal. I just seen players doing a very good job using it vs. people with probably less good mice, myself included. Feelingwise I would say, for me it was an upgraded from Xai in almost every point. You can't imagine how fast I returned the 2 G400 I had (with and without angle snapping). And that's mostly because I raised my sensitivity over the years. Aiming out of the wrist, so to say, is just more comfortable than moving your whole arm. And you can get as good as you are with low(er) sens. I did it and I know people who had higher sens than me (up to 2x my sens) and kicked my ass nontheless. And that was when I was stilly playing CS 1.6 ~ 6-10 hours a day. A mouse will surely help you to get better, but it won't make you Extreme Masters champion. You can't assume everyone shares your playstyle. And about the wheel I really believe you won't want something else after you got used to that kind of wheel. G500 is just not complete trash as you almost always try to let it look like. That's all.


Never once did I say it was bad only for me. It is notorious for its issues that have nothing to do with personal preference. Like I said, the scroll wheel and the button reliability problems and the sensor position are all very relatively subpar. Jesus I'm not max or roach. Don't bring sensitivity or playstyle or anything into this. Someone was saying what OCN thinks is the best mice should sell the best and that's false. That is all I am trying to make as a point. Jeeze.

I called it trash because it just doesn't make any sense the way they combined what they did together to make that thing. A much better job could have been done on the 500.


----------



## pr1me

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> Both mode are terrible to use, and the switch underneath the wheel is crap, especially for gaming.


Both mode are *amazing* to use, and the switch underneath the wheel is crap, especially for gaming, but that goes for pretty much all 4D wheel.


----------



## jaffa2843

It's so heavy, that I can't even do it that fast.







I use the G402 most of the time. (or the G100s without weight)


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Never once did I say it was bad only for me. It is notorious for its issues that have nothing to do with personal preference. Like I said, the scroll wheel and the button reliability problems and the sensor position are all very relatively subpar. Jesus I'm not max or roach. Don't bring sensitivity or playstyle or anything into this. Someone was saying what OCN thinks is the best mice should sell the best and that's false. That is all I am trying to make as a point. Jeeze.
> 
> I called it trash because it just doesn't make any sense the way they combined what they did together to make that thing. A much better job could have been done on the 500.


C'mon, mate. I know what you said/wrote. It's just I used it for like 3 years and nothing went bad/broken/w/e... And yes, of course. A better job could have been done. It's just not as bad as you want to let it seem to be. At least that was my impression!


----------



## metal571

I know. It's not unusable, I've already tried it and even did a review on it on my channel although I didn't know as much about mice back then


----------



## riznich48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pr1me*
> 
> actually... that was genuine lol.
> I know some people dislike it, but i enjoy it a lot.
> That free spin is awesome, it's useless for gaming, but the cranted mode is there, so you don't really lose anything.


i agree i like the scroll wheel on the g502 more than most. i love the very defined steps and the option for the free scroll. i don't however like the left/ride scroll as sometimes (1 out of 100 times) click left and down when i'm trying to push middle mouse button straight down


----------



## semantics

The middle mouse button on all hyperscroll wheels are pretty unusable so i just use the sniper button.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> The middle mouse button on all hyperscroll wheels are pretty unusable so i just use the sniper button.


Same. I did the same thing with the G500 and it's third side button.


----------



## riznich48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> The middle mouse button on all hyperscroll wheels are pretty unusable so i just use the sniper button.


i tried that but was just too much in the old habit to switch. in the end i just trained myself to press down very precisely/centered that it became second nature and rarely/if ever gives me issue now .. it's worth it for those very satisfying steps on the wheel. and of course i keep freescroll turned off while gaming.

i don't think any mouse wheel has really gotten it right yet, though. i have a gripe with every one i've used so far


----------



## jaffa2843

Explain the G402 middle button.. Same ****, unfortunately.


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> The middle mouse button on all hyperscroll wheels are pretty unusable so i just use the sniper button.


Thats why you hit the button to lock the wheel when you don't need the speed.

What I do is I just unlock the wheel when I need to scroll through a long document, facebook, my music library, etc, then re-lock it for general use. Its not that hard to move your finger 1/4 inch farther back to hit the lock/unlock button whenever you need to change the scroll setting.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> Explain the G402 middle button.. Same ****, unfortunately.


I like the g402 scroll wheel and button.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DivineDark*
> 
> I like the g402 scroll wheel and button.


The wheel is fine, but the microswitch underneath it... boy, it's one hell of an exercise to push that noisy bastard. Why couldn't they put a regular Omron under the srcoll?


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> The wheel is fine, but the microswitch underneath it... boy, it's one hell of an exercise to push that noisy bastard. Why couldn't they put a regular Omron under the srcoll?


As in the switch the wheel pushes or the one that changes the scroll mode? I have no problem with either.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> As in the switch the wheel pushes or the one that changes the scroll mode? I have no problem with either.


I meant the middle button. When you press the wheel to click. That's awful. (...On the G402, but on the G502 isn't better)


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> I meant the middle button. When you press the wheel to click. That's awful. (...On the G402, but on the G502 isn't better)


It is really not that hard of a switch compared to several mice I have used, I can't recall which was which so I won't name names right now.

Edit: I pulled the two other gaming mice I still have out of my drawer.. the G9x has a FAR heavier middle click than the G502, and the Vengeance M65 is about the same as the G502.


----------



## Necroblob

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> I meant the middle button. When you press the wheel to click. That's awful. (...On the G402, but on the G502 isn't better)


Is that a microsoft optical mouse blue in your profile pic? I thought I was the only one. What a classic mouse.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Necroblob*
> 
> Is that a microsoft optical mouse blue in your profile pic? I thought I was the only one. What a classic mouse.


Yeah, that's the one.







I'm happy I was able to collect this piece of relic.


----------



## MasterBash

I have the mouse wheel in my hand by itself and its heavier than everything I removed before, heavier than all the screws, the cut door, the sniper buttons, both magnets and led tunnel thing altogether. I am confused as to what to do with it though. The inner ring seems to be glued to the metal thing, seems pretty hard to remove.

It probably weighs like 13-14g by itself. I am sure I can easily remove a good 10g.

Just test my g502 without the mousewheel for fun. I would say its about 10-15g less than my G400.

I also modified the pressure that MB1 and MB2 were exerting on the switch. I set it so there is a bit more pressure without the buttons clicking by itself, so its a bit easier to click the buttons now, not like it was hard before, but the DA2013 is amazing when it comes to the pressure required to actuate the switch.

So about the mousewheel... There are a few things I can do :

Remove the entire metal thing by grinding it down or try to remove the inner ring and stick a velcro aroound it then glue a piece of rubber on top of the velcro;
Remove a layer of the metal mouse wheel, use it as my mouse wheel despite the leftover weight;
Do nothing, but that wouldnt be fun.

I lack any other ideas. Anyone?


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> The middle mouse button on all hyperscroll wheels are pretty unusable so i just use the sniper button.
> 
> 
> 
> Thats why you hit the button to lock the wheel when you don't need the speed.
> 
> What I do is I just unlock the wheel when I need to scroll through a long document, facebook, my music library, etc, then re-lock it for general use. Its not that hard to move your finger 1/4 inch farther back to hit the lock/unlock button whenever you need to change the scroll setting.
Click to expand...

I wasn't talking about the scroll modes, i love the hyperscroll mode a ton infact i'd prefer the free/hyper scroll on any mouse it's that the click the middle mouse button down it's super heavy and needs to be pressed pretty much straight down. So i just bind it to another button since the mice tend to have a ton of extra buttons laying around. For the G502 i use the sniper button.

Although for games the free scroll wheel has too much inertia, i like that it's wider than it's predecessors but when you move your hand fast you scroll unless you lock it down into click mode. I didn't have to do this with the G9, G9x, G500 or G700.

The click mode for the hyper scroll mice are too sensitive frankly the teeth are too close together. So if you panic scroll you'll skip teeth and not actually scroll much, I think they should make the teeth and the actuator wider so the scroll is less sensitive and similar to other mouse wheels. I mean you can get used to it but it's pretty unusual.


----------



## DivineDark

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MasterBash*
> 
> I have the mouse wheel in my hand by itself and its heavier than everything I removed before, heavier than all the screws, the cut door, the sniper buttons, both magnets and led tunnel thing altogether. I am confused as to what to do with it though. The inner ring seems to be glued to the metal thing, seems pretty hard to remove.
> 
> It probably weighs like 13-14g by itself. I am sure I can easily remove a good 10g.
> 
> Just test my g502 without the mousewheel for fun. I would say its about 10-15g less than my G400.
> 
> I also modified the pressure that MB1 and MB2 were exerting on the switch. I set it so there is a bit more pressure without the buttons clicking by itself, so its a bit easier to click the buttons now, not like it was hard before, but the DA2013 is amazing when it comes to the pressure required to actuate the switch.
> 
> So about the mousewheel... There are a few things I can do :
> 
> Remove the entire metal thing by grinding it down or try to remove the inner ring and stick a velcro aroound it then glue a piece of rubber on top of the velcro;
> Remove a layer of the metal mouse wheel, use it as my mouse wheel despite the leftover weight;
> Do nothing, but that wouldnt be fun.
> 
> I lack any other ideas. Anyone?


I'm not sure how the encoder works on that wheel. If it doesn't rely on the center mass, then you can take it to a metal shop and have them aerate the wheel. Shouldn't cost anything at all. Either that or find a metal worker that wouldn't mind doing something silly for a few minutes. They can basically use a small drill press to drill the wheel out and polish it up.

Like this, but without the awesomeness of the magnets and fun.


----------



## MasterBash

Ya, I see what you mean, I can do it myself actually. However, I thought about removing the entire metal thing and just keep the inner ring and add something around it to lighten the weight. Lets be honest, the weight is one thing but the wheel also sticks out by a mile. I would at the very least have to reduce its size.

It doesnt seem to rely on its mass at all... Maybe if I use the hyperscroll mode...

Happy with what I did so far but not truly satisfied. Its still not the perfect mouse... just yet.

EDIT: Started working on it, the inner ring is nearly unremovable. However, I was able to get the metal wheel to like 2-3mm thickness. I will work on it further tomorrow to try to get it to ~1mm, I have more important things to do right now.


----------



## Tabacashi

Hello. I have a questions about this mouse.

1. This mouse has laser/optical? (and what is better?)
2. Does this mouse is recommended?
3. Which mousepad for this mouse should i take?
4. How long is the cable?


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tabacashi*
> 
> Hello. I have a questions about this mouse.
> 
> 1. This mouse has laser/optical? (and what is better?)
> 2. Does this mouse is recommended?
> 3. Which mousepad for this mouse should i take?
> 4. How long is the cable?


Optical. Optical is better. In fact, this optical sensor is the best you can get now.
Yes it's recommended, if you like the shape and the weight, coz it's a heavy mouse. 128 gramms without weights.
I think it's 2 meters or 1.8 meters.
It can track on any surface with no problem at all.


----------



## Tabacashi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> Optical. Optical is better. In fact, this optical sensor is the best you can get now.
> Yes it's recommended, if you like the shape and the weight, coz it's a heavy mouse. 128 gramms without weights.
> I think it's 2 meters or 1.8 meters.
> It can track on any surface with no problem at all.


Thank you very much.
Anyway i'm going to buy a mousepad because my table isn't comfortable so I want to know which mousepad will be the best for this mouse. I'm worriyng about the shape because i have 'a little bit' long, slim fingers, should I? Thanks for answers.


----------



## metal571

Mousepad to preference. Hard or soft?

The shape is best for claw from what I hear. I only own the 402.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Mousepad to preference. Hard or soft?
> 
> The shape is best for claw from what I hear. I only own the 402.


The G502 is a 'more claw' mouse IMO. But the weight makes it a little difficult for long period of use.


----------



## Tabacashi

Mm... So. Are there any biggest mice perfect like G502?


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tabacashi*
> 
> Mm... So. Are there any biggest mice perfect like G502?


If you want a big mouse with a 'flawless' sensor the Naos 7000 is an alternative. As well as the Rival. Even the G400(s) is a decent choice. The IE3.0 trumps them all as far as sensor tracking goes, if you can deal with the low perfect control speed.


----------



## metal571

Or if you can actually find it, the Kone XTD Optical


----------



## deadsnow

I have been using a Logitech G5 for around five years now and love it so much. The size is perfect for me, but when I saw the G500, I thought it was the perfect mouse since it came with an extra thumb button and had hyper scroll. I never bought it because I didn't think I needed it. But now that they don't even sell the G500s anymore, I am really considering the G502.

To anyone who has upgraded to this mouse after a G5/G500/G500s/G400/G400s/MX518, what was it like? I am mainly asking because I adore the shape of my G5. I use a palm grip.

I need to be sure that this deal is worth jumping on: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1931533


----------



## riznich48

i would say the g502 is better for fingertip than claw.. it is pretty small and it's shaped in a way that can be uncomfortable/difficult to make contact with the base of your palm


----------



## Tabacashi

Anyway the G502 is bigger than Naga (lol).

Could you tell me what differences are between G502 and Kone XTD and which mousepad should i take for them.
#I really don't know which (hard/soft) mousepad i prefer because... i have never had a mousepad (yeah i know... sad)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deadsnow*
> 
> I have been using a Logitech G5 for around five years now and love it so much. The size is perfect for me, but when I saw the G500, I thought it was the perfect mouse since it came with an extra thumb button and had hyper scroll. I never bought it because I didn't think I needed it. But now that they don't even sell the G500s anymore, I am really considering the G502.
> 
> To anyone who has upgraded to this mouse after a G5/G500/G500s/G400/G400s/MX518, what was it like? I am mainly asking because I adore the shape of my G5. I use a palm grip.
> 
> I need to be sure that this deal is worth jumping on: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1931533


Well. I'm not sure if I can buy that in my country ;/ (Poland)


----------



## Torongo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tabacashi*
> 
> Anyway the G502 is bigger than Naga (lol).
> 
> Could you tell me what differences are between G502 and Kone XTD and which mousepad should i take for them.
> #I really don't know which (hard/soft) mousepad i prefer because... i have never had a mousepad (yeah i know... sad)
> Well. I'm not sure if I can buy that in my country ;/ (Poland)


G502 has optical sensor that a bit superior than a laser sensor in Kone XTD, 9 buttons VS 8 buttons on Kone (without scroll up\down\left\right).
They are actually weigh the same and their length\width\height are almost the same too.


----------



## TK421

The laser sensor in the XTD is useless compared to the 502's 3366


----------



## QLsya

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> The laser sensor in the XTD is useless compared to the 502's 3366


+1 that 9800 sensor is like aids for mice, it's everywhere and it feels awful!


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deadsnow*
> 
> I have been using a Logitech G5 for around five years now and love it so much. The size is perfect for me, but when I saw the G500, I thought it was the perfect mouse since it came with an extra thumb button and had hyper scroll. I never bought it because I didn't think I needed it. But now that they don't even sell the G500s anymore, I am really considering the G502.
> 
> To anyone who has upgraded to this mouse after a G5/G500/G500s/G400/G400s/MX518, what was it like? I am mainly asking because I adore the shape of my G5. I use a palm grip.
> 
> I need to be sure that this deal is worth jumping on: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.1931533


I still have a G5 that I don't use anymore. Its shape was the reason why I bought the G502. I thought they would be similar but unfortunately these two mice feel very different when holding. The G5 is more ergonomical and is a palm grip mouse while the G502 is a claw grip. The G502 is almost impossible to palm grip because the sniper button gets in the way. You have to pull your hand back a little bit to avoid the sniper button but your grip will change into fingertip grip.

The difference in shape is that the G5 is wider and its right side has a deeper slope. The G502 is narrower and has a rounder shape and it also feels much taller than the G5. How I hold the G502 is by using a claw grip and the bottom part of the mouse is touching the center of my palm but this is at an angle. The G5 when I hold it is straight and the center of my palm sits perfectly on the bottom part of the mouse. I use a palm grip on G5 but have my ring finger on the space near the right mouse button and use my thumb and pinky to move the mouse.

If I hold the G5 like the G502 and have my ring and pinky fingers on the mouse pad, it is almost similar, both at an angle, and my palm sits on the bottom part of the mouse. The difference is that I have to bend my fingers on the G502 and the G5 is more comfortable to hold with this grip.

The G502 is heavier than the G5.


----------



## Tabacashi

Ok now. Could you advise me to choice the mousepad to G502?


----------



## deadsnow

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> I still have a G5 that I don't use anymore. Its shape was the reason why I bought the G502. I thought they would be similar but unfortunately these two mice feel very different when holding. The G5 is more ergonomical and is a palm grip mouse while the G502 is a claw grip. The G502 is almost impossible to palm grip because the sniper button gets in the way. You have to pull your hand back a little bit to avoid the sniper button but your grip will change into fingertip grip.
> 
> The difference in shape is that the G5 is wider and its right side has a deeper slope. The G502 is narrower and has a rounder shape and it also feels much taller than the G5. How I hold the G502 is by using a claw grip and the bottom part of the mouse is touching the center of my palm but this is at an angle. The G5 when I hold it is straight and the center of my palm sits perfectly on the bottom part of the mouse. I use a palm grip on G5 but have my ring finger on the space near the right mouse button and use my thumb and pinky to move the mouse.
> 
> If I hold the G5 like the G502 and have my ring and pinky fingers on the mouse pad, it is almost similar, both at an angle, and my palm sits on the bottom part of the mouse. The difference is that I have to bend my fingers on the G502 and the G5 is more comfortable to hold with this grip.
> 
> The G502 is heavier than the G5.


Ah from what you have said, the G502 sounds very different from the G5. Thanks for the comparison. Do you use the G502 daily? And how do you like it compared to the G5?


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deadsnow*
> 
> Ah from what you have said, the G502 sounds very different from the G5. Thanks for the comparison. Do you use the G502 daily? And how do you like it compared to the G5?


The G502 is my daily driver now. I prefer the shape of the G5 but the sensor of the G502 is phenomenal. No acceleration whatsoever. So for me it's kinda worth it using this mouse but if given the choice I would definitely have preferred a Naos 7000 because this is a palm grip mouse.

If you're going to buy the G502 you'll have to adjust to its weight and shape. If your hands are on the small to mid size this mouse might be comfortable to use.


----------



## Wind

I'm a bit curious, what is the general consensus on the best polling rate to use with this mouse? Can it handle 1000 Hz fine or should I keep it at 500 Hz (I'm using a Benq XL2720Z monitor @ 144 Hz if that matters at all)


----------



## riznich48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wind*
> 
> I'm a bit curious, what is the general consensus on the best polling rate to use with this mouse? Can it handle 1000 Hz fine or should I keep it at 500 Hz (I'm using a Benq XL2720Z monitor @ 144 Hz if that matters at all)


i've had no problem with 1000 . from my understanding the only polling rate issue was reported by roach and only on profile 3 if i remember correctly


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wind*
> 
> I'm a bit curious, what is the general consensus on the best polling rate to use with this mouse? Can it handle 1000 Hz fine or should I keep it at 500 Hz (I'm using a Benq XL2720Z monitor @ 144 Hz if that matters at all)


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *riznich48*
> 
> i've had no problem with 1000 . from my understanding the only polling rate issue was reported by roach and only on profile 3 if i remember correctly


It feels a bit less smooth at high polling rates. I actually run mine at 250, as that came out nice and smooth on the MSPaint circle drawing test.


----------



## riznich48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> It feels a bit less smooth at high polling rates. I actually run mine at 250, as that came out nice and smooth on the MSPaint circle drawing test.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1481639/logitech-g502-proteus-core-gaming-mouse-review-by-ino#post_22104200

shows his tests with various polling rates and dpi.. all perform well


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wind*
> 
> I'm a bit curious, what is the general consensus on the best polling rate to use with this mouse? Can it handle 1000 Hz fine or should I keep it at 500 Hz (I'm using a Benq XL2720Z monitor @ 144 Hz if that matters at all)


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *riznich48*
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1481639/logitech-g502-proteus-core-gaming-mouse-review-by-ino#post_22104200
> 
> shows his tests with various polling rates and dpi.. all perform well


Keep in mind I am a high sensitivity gamer, about 1in / 360. This is a comparison of the polling rate options I just did.


----------



## Torongo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> Keep in mind I am a high sensitivity gamer, about 1in / 360. This is a comparison of the polling rate options I just did.


Actually, it's better to drop polling rate with high DPI. As someone around here said: "More lag - less ripping"


----------



## FreeElectron

How is the mouse feet?
Do i need to buy different mouse feet or will the stock ones be good?


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> How is the mouse feet?
> Do i need to buy different mouse feet or will the stock ones be good?


Using default feet on cloth (a QcK) and it feels fine to me, though it is very slow. Using them on the 9HD is not a pleasant experience imo.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mtzgr*
> 
> Using default feet on cloth (a QcK) and it feels fine to me, though it is very slow. Using them on the 9HD is not a pleasant experience imo.


I don't like slow...

Should i consider buying other feet?
If so, Which ones should i consider?


----------



## madwolfa

Is it just my mouse or does anyone else have it? I have that creaking noise/sound when I scroll the wheel slowly. Very annoying.

Can't find anything about it online.


----------



## jaffa2843

Yep, mine does the same noise.


----------



## madwolfa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> Yep, mine does the same noise.


It's freaking me out. I guess I'd have to return it and there's no point in exchanging it either.


----------



## a_ak57

Is there a trick to getting this thing open? I took off the feet and removed 4 screws which seemed like that was it, but it was still attached via the right side (looking from the bottom, the sniper button side). Is there a screw hidden underneath the rubber or something?


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madwolfa*
> 
> It's freaking me out. I guess I'd have to return it and there's no point in exchanging it either.


Can you make a video of that noise?


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madwolfa*
> 
> Is it just my mouse or does anyone else have it? I have that creaking noise/sound when I scroll the wheel slowly. Very annoying.
> 
> Can't find anything about it online.


Somewhere between a creak and a click? Thats just the gears rubbing against each other. The G9X is the same way when its not set to freespin.


----------



## madwolfa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> Somewhere between a creak and a click? Thats just the gears rubbing against each other. The G9X is the same way when its not set to freespin.


Grinding my gears for sure. Can't record the video, unfortunately. Already on my way to Microcenter.


----------



## madwolfa

Well, just got a G402 instead. Sensor immediately doesn't feel as precise, but the mouse itself is more comfortable and ergonomic.
It's also much lighter, the scrolling wheel is completely silent and has a better grip... Cable sucks, but doesn't seem to be a problem.


----------



## Soul Craze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> I can, yes. The ridge from the G400s is not present. You can see a rotatable 3D rendering of the Proteus Core on the product page of our website.


The ridge is not completely gone unfortunately. It is for anyone with small to medium hands though. The reason i say that is because on the right side the mouse gradually flares but only on the top so your left with that awkward feeling ridge towards the end. Claw gripping it feels much better because my ring finger tip is further back. Either way i've only used this mouse for 2 hours but i already feel the frustration i felt with the G400S and G500S.


----------



## atomicrad

I've had this mouse for about 2 weeks now and have to say it's not a comfortable fit for me. I'd say I use more of a palm grip and I don't have large hands but I was previously using a mouse with a lower profile. Gaming with this thing has not been a good experience. I feel unable to play as I used to and will be returning this soon. I have no technical fault's to list, but would advise those with a similar grip+hand size to myself to try to test one out before purchasing.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atomicrad*
> 
> I've had this mouse for about 2 weeks now and have to say it's not a comfortable fit for me. I'd say I use more of a palm grip and I don't have large hands but I was previously using a mouse with a lower profile. Gaming with this thing has not been a good experience. I feel unable to play as I used to and will be returning this soon. I have no technical fault's to list, but would advise those with a similar grip+hand size to myself to try to test one out before purchasing.



What's your grip style?
What's your sensitivity?
What's your maximum budget?
Do you want additional buttons?
What games do you play?
Do you mind about prediction?
Other relevant information:
Input anything else you want. Some examples: LOD, ambidextrous shape, weight, wireless, non-braided cord, glossy finish, button activation force, driverless, onboard memory, etc


----------



## atomicrad

1) Looking at my old mouse, I'd say I'm actually a claw grip, but the way my hand rests on the G502 means that I'm arching my hand way more than normal. As a result I feel my hand slipping backwards off of its high back.
2) I'll cater that to the mouse. Right now on BF4 I'm varying but was settling to around 2-4 sensitivity and a higher DPI.
3) I spent £70 on this mouse so I'd ideally like to stay within this range.
4) Not a neccesity. I don't play MMORPG that much.
5) Mainly FPS but occasionally i'll play RTS or MMO.
6) Prediction????
7) Im not bothered about anything more than accuracy and comfort.


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *atomicrad*
> 
> 1) Looking at my old mouse, I'd say I'm actually a claw grip, but the way my hand rests on the G502 means that I'm arching my hand way more than normal. As a result I feel my hand slipping backwards off of its high back.
> 2) I'll cater that to the mouse. Right now on BF4 I'm varying but was settling to around 2-4 sensitivity and a higher DPI.
> 3) I spent £70 on this mouse so I'd ideally like to stay within this range.
> 4) Not a neccesity. I don't play MMORPG that much.
> 5) Mainly FPS but occasionally i'll play RTS or MMO.
> 6) Prediction????
> 7) Im not bothered about anything more than accuracy and comfort.


*Roccat Kone Pure Military* (Smaller and lighter then G502, but similar grip feel. Stiffer cable than the G502's, but better than the G402's.)
*Logitech G402* (bigger than G502 and different shape/feel. Personally I hate the tactile switch under the wheel. Hard to press, loud, and gives an awkward feel to the 



. So as the G502, but it's much heavier than that. Oh, and the cable is stiff as hell.)
*Mionix Avior 7000*
*Zowie FK1*

I don't have any personal information about the feel of the other two mice. But they're top notch inside.


----------



## hza

G402/G402's wheel is heavier than G502/G502's wheel?


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> G402/G402's wheel is heavier than G502/G502's wheel?


It needs more force to press. And yeah, it's stiffer when you scroll too. But still better than that heavy wobbling metal gimmick.
Nowadays I play with the Kone Pure Military, and I like it better than these two Logitech mice.


----------



## marduke83

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madwolfa*
> 
> Well, just got a G402 instead. Sensor immediately doesn't feel as precise, but the mouse itself is more comfortable and ergonomic.
> It's also much lighter, the scrolling wheel is completely silent and has a better grip... Cable sucks, but doesn't seem to be a problem.


Had the same issue with my g502 and it drove me crazy, so I did the same thing bought a g402 except I found the sensor (for me atleast) felt better, maybe it's the lightness compared to the 502 that helps. The only thing that for me it loses to the g502 is the button clicks are much heavier.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I will be getting a G502 soon. I really liked the scroll wheel.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> I will be getting a G502 soon. I really liked the scrolling wheel.


Wha!


----------



## Soul Craze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> I will be getting a G502 soon. I really liked the scroll wheel.


Wana buy mine? lol. I just picked one up but the ergonomics of the mouse just don't work for me. it feels like it was designed for people with medium-ish sized hands. It's a shame really because the mouse is so good in so many ways and i've been looking for the right mouse for too long.


----------



## riznich48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Wha!


same here. i'm a huge fan of very defined steps and g502 is the best i've used.. it would be perfect without the scroll left/right feature though because it's never used and causes a misclick once every couple hundred or so middle button pushes


----------



## AK-47

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> I will be getting a G502 soon. I really liked the scroll wheel.


Same here. Getting hooked up with a discount so it will come out to like $50


----------



## erobuR

I love unlimited scroll wheel when I reddit, and I like the mouse. But I cannot use it more than an hour for obvious reasons... I mean, it is so good, but big for me, and so heavy that, if a burglar comes into the house I might think of throwing my G502 to his head instead of finding where my baseball bat was.


----------



## ChrisPh

hehe seems a lot of different opinions, for me i have even added 2 weights in my g502, as for the scroll wheel yes it is heavy but it doesnt bother me at all
plus it fits my hand perfectly


----------



## Falkentyne

Only 2 things bad about the mouse is the optical encoder for the wheel registers on amount of movement, instead of specific points so the point between notches where it can register movement can be VERY VERY VERY off, then suddenly, right in the middle.... I think dust getting into the wheel makes things worse as I have three G502's and the two barely used ones (with no dust) don't have such a problem. I mean I can see why Logitech did that...the Razer DA Black edition is not only permanently off center (two samples--both the same), but one of them sometimes scrolls backwards (the fix is to open the mouse and squeeze the sensor together a bit more, which requires new mouse feet). And of course, the stock feet just suck...VERY hit and miss...you need Hotline games competition feet (even their stock feet are ok too) or wait for Hyperglides (which ARE coming out, btw)

I can play on this mouse 10 hours a day and not get tired. Now, the Deathadders, (and the MSIE 3.0) on the other hand...REALLY hurt my wrist...it was massive wrist swelling back on the MSIE 3.0 around 2000 that stopped me from ever playing RTS/Warcraft 2 again, and stopped me from getting into starcraft....but with this G502...none of that...

(I think the Diamondback and the WMO were also comfortable...now I see why so many people loved the WMO shape...)


----------



## mitavreb

I like the scroll wheel. I even use it to quick switch from awp to handgun in csgo. And I love the free spinning mode


----------



## FreeElectron

Is it some sort of an alternate universe where people like the G502's weight and the wheel?


----------



## Falkentyne

I love the weight cuz I have giant hands, and I want me some meat on them mice, instead of feeling like I'm picking up a bag of feathers...weight feels great at stock. My DA Black feels like a cheap toy by comparison.

although I can see how it being 25 grams less with the option to make it heavy like it is now would have made a lot more people happy.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Is it some sort of an alternate universe where people like the G502's weight and the wheel?


What is your ideal wheel?


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> I like the scroll wheel. I even use it to quick switch from awp to handgun in csgo. And I love the free spinning mode


Free Spinning is great outside of games but the mass of the wheel makes the wheel move itself in games. Click mode is fine i wish the teeth would be further apart the teeth are so close that if you move the thing quickly it won't register all the movement because the lever won't be able to settle into the slots and register a notch. I mean you get used to it and it's fine it's just not my preference.

Personally though as i use my mouse 80% of the time outside of games for work and other things, the free spin mode is so much preferred i don't care too much that click mode is a bit lack luster.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> I love the weight cuz I have giant hands, and I want me some meat on them mice, instead of feeling like I'm picking up a bag of feathers...weight feels great at stock. My DA Black feels like a cheap toy by comparison.
> 
> although I can see how it being 25 grams less with the option to make it heavy like it is now would have made a lot more people happy.


Around 90-105g is where i like it, sub 80g the mouse is too light i just end up picking them up too much(that messes with tracking). Although heavy mice I don't care how heavy it is doesn't seem to be an issue. Only super light mice mess with me.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *semantics*
> 
> Free Spinning is great outside of games but the mass of the wheel makes the wheel move itself in games. Click mode is fine i wish the teeth would be further apart the teeth are so close that if you move the thing quickly it won't register all the movement because the lever won't be able to settle into the slots and register a notch. I mean you get used to it and it's fine it's just not my preference.
> 
> Personally though as i use my mouse 80% of the time outside of games for work and other things, the free spin mode is so much preferred i don't care too much that click mode is a bit lack luster.
> Around 90-105g is where i like it, sub 80g the mouse is too light i just end up picking them up too much(that messes with tracking). Although heavy mice I don't care how heavy it is doesn't seem to be an issue. Only super light mice mess with me.


I have used 3 mice in recent memory.

MicrosoftSideWinder X8 Mouse - 161g
Razer Imperator 2012 - 139g
SteelSeries Sensei - 102g

I was fine with the Razer so G502 @ 120g is light enough for me.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> I have used 3 mice in recent memory.
> 
> MicrosoftSideWinder X8 Mouse - 161g
> Razer Imperator 2012 - 139g
> SteelSeries Sensei - 102g
> 
> I was fine with the Razer so G502 @ 120g is light enough for me.


Except for the sensei those weights are with the entire cord and connector added to the weight. 121g for the G502 is with the cord cut off at the tip of the mouse without any weights installed.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Except for the sensei those weights are with the entire cord and connector added to the weight. 121g for the G502 is with the cord cut off at the tip of the mouse without any weights installed.


So Sensei is even less then 102g? I personally find a surface that has less friction so weight becomes not a problem.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> So Sensei is even less then 102g? I personally find a surface that has less friction so weight becomes not a problem.


No, the sensei at 102g (on my scale i measured 107g for the original sensei but that is with a small section of cord draping off the scale) is the weight without the cord. Weight is a problem because most people constantly lift and reposition while playing, even those using rather high sensitivities.


----------



## r0ach

Sensei is heavier with worse weight distribution than Xai. The stock Xai felt excellent to use, but I had to go in and gut the top, secondary PCB, LCD, side buttons, and everything else in the Sensei to bring the weight down to use it.


----------



## Ice009

What's the deal with the new versions of LGS? I'm still using 8.55 as I read the new versions install unwanted software automatically. I haven't bothered installing them as I don't think they have anything new that's relevant to the G502?


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Is it some sort of an alternate universe where people like the G502's weight and the wheel?


Definitely a big no on the weight. It's difficult for me to make those small movements with a heavy mouse because it takes so much effort but with a fast mouse pad it helps mitigate the weight. My G502 is gliding so fast on my Taito that I barely even feel the weight anymore.

If you use a G502 and a mechanical keyboard with black switches you'll give your wrists, hands, and fingers a good workout.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> Definitely a big no on the weight. It's difficult for me to make those small movements with a heavy mouse because it takes so much effort but with a fast mouse pad it helps mitigate the weight. My G502 is gliding so fast on my Taito that I barely even feel the weight anymore.
> 
> If you use a G502 and a mechanical keyboard with black switches you'll give your wrists, hands, and fingers a good workout.


lol
Especially in long gaming sessions!


----------



## connectwise

Quite frankly after going black for a while and then red, then back to black, black just seem normal to me, and 45g topre is too light now.

In the case of g502, I had to get used to the soft touches again from the FK. Even now, it feels way too light.


----------



## SalmonTaco

I just got word from Logitech that they are sending me a G502









My G700 has been reluctant to right click, so I started a claim, sent them my Amazon receipt, and gave a follow up call. After 20 minutes of talking to the rep agreed to replace it with a G502 - and they aren't even making me send the defective G700 back!















for Logitech customer support!


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SalmonTaco*
> 
> I just got word from Logitech that they are sending me a G502
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My G700 has been reluctant to right click, so I started a claim, sent them my Amazon receipt, and gave a follow up call. After 20 minutes of talking to the rep agreed to replace it with a G502 - and they aren't even making me send the defective G700 back!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for Logitech customer support!


I should've waited with my G700 the same problem , I could get at least G700s or if I waited longer then G502 xD


----------



## SalmonTaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> I should've waited with my G700 the same problem , I could get at least G700s or if I waited longer then G502 xD


The rep tried to talk me into a G700s but insisted on the G502. I also pointed out the 16 page thread on the Logitech forums in regards to this exact issue.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SalmonTaco*
> 
> I just got word from Logitech that they are sending me a G502
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My G700 has been reluctant to right click, so I started a claim, sent them my Amazon receipt, and gave a follow up call. After 20 minutes of talking to the rep agreed to replace it with a G502 - and they aren't even making me send the defective G700 back!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for Logitech customer support!


This is why you should be glad you're an American







. You currently enjoy a service that here in Australia doesn't exist at all. We get ripped off and then dump our broken pieces of PC gear into bins to be taken to huge landfill sites.

At least you have saved some money by not being forced to buy another input device







.


----------



## Puck

I have a single weight in the back of my 502 to balance the front-heavy feeling.

I have a very slick mat, use high sens, and don't lift my mouse ever though...so the weight is no issue. My UT addicted friend plays on even higher sens then me and put ALL the weights in it...he said the extra weight makes him feel more consistent, lmao. Maybe its because he moves the mouse ~2in max in each direction with his fingers and his wrist never moves, lmao.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SalmonTaco*
> 
> I just got word from Logitech that they are sending me a G502
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My G700 has been reluctant to right click, so I started a claim, sent them my Amazon receipt, and gave a follow up call. After 20 minutes of talking to the rep agreed to replace it with a G502 - and they aren't even making me send the defective G700 back!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for Logitech customer support!


Yeah they're great guys, aren't they?

They sent me a new G502 when I wrote a ticket asking for replacement mouse feet (!) Even though mine hadn't peeled off yet, they said instead of replacing the feet (this was before they even had the "incomplete" replacement sets), they were sending a whole new mouse.

I got some hotline competition .6mm ones for replacement feet later.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Yeah they're great guys, aren't they?
> 
> They sent me a new G502 when I wrote a ticket asking for replacement mouse feet (!) Even though mine hadn't peeled off yet, they said instead of replacing the feet (this was before they even had the "incomplete" replacement sets), they were sending a whole new mouse.
> 
> I got some hotline competition .6mm ones for replacement feet later.


omg , that's like 2nd hand service but 1st hand items for free :O


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Yeah they're great guys, aren't they?
> 
> They sent me a new G502 when I wrote a ticket asking for replacement mouse feet (!) Even though mine hadn't peeled off yet, they said instead of replacing the feet (this was before they even had the "incomplete" replacement sets), they were sending a whole new mouse.
> 
> I got some hotline competition .6mm ones for replacement feet later.


Everyone thinks this is good service because they get a free mouse but It comes off as foolish and lazy to me. They did the same thing to me for my G400 which came out of the box with a defective bottom foot. Their profit per unit must be astronomical for them to be OK with doing things like this but If their policy was to just send you a couple sets of replacement teflon feet then maybe we would still have three year warranties with their products instead of only two. Two more years of that kind of service and maybe we will be down to a single year warranty.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Everyone thinks this is good service because they get a free mouse but It comes off as foolish and lazy to me. They did the same thing to me for my G400 which came out of the box with a defective bottom foot. Their profit per unit must be astronomical for them to be OK with doing things like this but If their policy was to just send you a couple sets of replacement teflon feet then maybe we would still have three year warranties with their products instead of only two. Two more years of that kind of service and maybe we will be down to a single year warranty.


Man people will complain about ANYTHING from Logitech, even FREE STUFF.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Man people will complain about ANYTHING from Logitech, even FREE STUFF.


Considering the one making the complaint is probably an American, try and experience the so-called (non) service here in Australia, then you've really got something to complain about







.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Considering the one making the complaint is probably an American, try and experience the so-called (non) service here in Australia, then you've really got something to complain about
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Yeah, really.
if they don't like how Logitech does things, make ur own company and do it yourself!


----------



## FreeElectron

Warranty on an international scale is a real pain.
The only company that sometimes accepts RMA with shipping cost is amazon. I have never heard of any other company who does that.


----------



## SharpShoot3r07

What do you all think about buying this mouse refurbished? Newegg has it for $50 refurbished. Iha a refurb item been used a lot?


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Yeah, really.
> if they don't like how Logitech does things, make ur own company and do it yourself!


Better still, you can give me a Billion dollars to set up my first factory in China







.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Everyone thinks this is good service because they get a free mouse but It comes off as foolish and lazy to me. They did the same thing to me for my G400 which came out of the box with a defective bottom foot. Their profit per unit must be astronomical for them to be OK with doing things like this but If their policy was to just send you a couple sets of replacement teflon feet then maybe we would still have three year warranties with their products instead of only two. Two more years of that kind of service and maybe we will be down to a single year warranty.


I'm beyond words for how illogical that whole statement is. I mean, really? Complaining about good customer service?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I'm beyond words for how illogical that whole statement is. I mean, really? Complaining about good customer service?


For real.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> Everyone thinks this is good service because they get a free mouse but It comes off as foolish and lazy to me. They did the same thing to me for my G400 which came out of the box with a defective bottom foot. Their profit per unit must be astronomical for them to be OK with doing things like this but If their policy was to just send you a couple sets of replacement teflon feet then maybe we would still have three year warranties with their products instead of only two. Two more years of that kind of service and maybe we will be down to a single year warranty.


So how much is Razer paying you to try and spin Logitech's good customer service into a bad thing?


----------



## hza

I don't think Razer or anyone else pays him anything. Derp doesn't like "good stuff" in general.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> So how much is Razer paying you to try and spin Logitech's good customer service into a bad thing?


It's the typical reverse PR gimmick practiced everywhere now. A 'customer' receives a faulty item and he/she complains about it on a well known forum and suddenly the Company that was so 'evil & lazy' comes about to solve everything within the world of that 'customer'







.

I suppose you should all take it with a grain of salt because nothing can be proved hence the internet is like that. Nothing wrong with that type of advertising because it's done by every corporation out there.


----------



## Maximillion

There are a few undercover rogue agents posing as regular consumers on these forums. One particular individual, an veiled crony of Swedish Intelligence, has already been exposed.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> It's the typical reverse PR gimmick practiced everywhere now. A 'customer' receives a faulty item and he/she complains about it on a well known forum and suddenly the Company that was so 'evil & lazy' comes about to solve everything within the world of that 'customer'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I suppose you should all take it with a grain of salt because nothing can be proved hence the internet is like that. Nothing wrong with that type of advertising because it's done by every corporation out there.


I've had good support from Logitech. I replaced a headset of mine free of charge, out of warranty and end of life with a new model simply by asking what they can do for me in an email.

They are the only guys that seem like they'd be buried in a casket full of their hardware. I've been nudging Razer to replace something of mine (in warranty mind you) and they won't help. Seems like they're subtly doing me a favor not sending me any more of their products.


----------



## metal571

Oh, real funny, Maxmillion. I do read these threads through. LOL

The fact that the FK1 is my new full-time gaming mouse should tell you at least something about me being "biased" towards Mionix.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> I've had good support from Logitech. I replaced a headset of mine free of charge, out of warranty and end of life with a new model simply by asking what they can do for me in an email.


Well I guess that shut me up







.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Well I guess that shut me up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Sure, it might fall in line with your PR quote there, but if it ever came to I'd have the emails ready to screenshot. Both with a headset and when my 518 sensor went wacky Logitech replaced both at once.

I just can't let the defecation of Logitech slide. They've pampered me as a customer. Like a good grandma, they're always there to make it right when things go wrong. I sound like a shill, but good customer service is not exactly easy to come by no matter the type of consumer market.


----------



## hza

Elrick, without knowing too much about australian Logitech Support, maybe you were just unlucky and got in touch with a "bad employee" (or new one at least). I can just confirm Logitech's (german) support is as obliging as other(s) described here. I believe it's good good advertising for Logitech being able to replace stuff just like that, even if your "defective product" isn't 100 % defective, but has an issue that is annoying enough at least. People forget Logitech sells most of their stuff that isn't gaming related at all.


----------



## metal571

Yeah Logitech has been one of my best support experiences by far. They just don't ask questions at all and just send you what you need.


----------



## buzztiger

The G502 is a very different shape from my razer diamondback 3g which had died. Its much taller and has this ergonomic shape. When i held it in store,the shape felt ok to me. But since the store had glued the mouse to the display table, I can't lift it to try the weight. After reading so many good opinions about this mouse I bought it. Been using this mouse for about a month.

I would say the first thing i noticed abt this mouse was its accuracy. Its a very accurate sensor. I played homefront where i saw its its superb accuracy. When aiming at enemies at fairly long distances where u could just see a small portion of the head from behind a cover, I can adjust my aim by a few mm to make a headshot. This was much more difficult with my previous mouse. But after playing with this mouse for about and hour my wrist started to hurt. I don't know if it was the ergonomic shape or the weight of the mouse that is causing it. I thought I could handle the weight of the mouse but moving the 100+g weight around is causing me to fatigue very fast. By the way I play at about 800 to 1000dpi with a either a claw grip or finger tip grip using my wrist as a pivot point. The weight is also slowing me down in aiming. The weight is just making wanna ditch this mouse. Its a real pity cause i really love the accuracy and buttons of the mouse .

I borrowed a logitech g100s mouse just to try out. Here is the first thing i noticed, its like a feather compared to g502. I could aim faster with this mouse. So far I do not feel the wrist pain which i had when using the g502. Will update again after using the g100s longer. Another thing is that the g100s glides better on the razer sphex then the g502(maybe coz of the weight ?). Of coz the g100s is not as accurate g502 for those long distance headshots of enemies hiding behind cover. But its accurate for short to mid range shots. I aim so fast with the g100s that I can even hit enemies rappeling down the chopper in Homefront. I really miss the side buttons which i use for tossing nades. If only I could find a mouse that had side buttons and shaped something like a g100s with a more accurate sensor.........any suggestion for such a mouse ?


----------



## detto87

It doesn't get more accurate from there if you don't consider 3366 or MLT04.


----------



## buzztiger

After searching, I came up with only 1 mouse that is Ambidextrous, has side buttons and under $100 >>>steelseries kana v2.


----------



## jetpak12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> I've had good support from Logitech. I replaced a headset of mine free of charge, out of warranty and end of life with a new model simply by asking what they can do for me in an email.


I had the exact same experience. My G5 went out, and they replaced it with a G500 out of warranty, and I didn't even need to send back the faulty G5.

Looking to get a G502, just waiting for a sale.


----------



## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buzztiger*
> 
> After searching, I came up with only 1 mouse that is Ambidextrous, has side buttons and under $100 >>>steelseries kana v2.


Which country are you located in? Because around here in Europe every ambi mouse with side buttons is <100$, only the sensei wireless isn't.

Otherwise the most expensive would be the Mionix Avior 7000 which is 80€ MSRP, you can actually get it much cheaper. FK1 is 70€, G302 is 50€...


----------



## ghostlacuna

yeah those prices seems a bit off to me as well

here checking one of the main stores mice prices go for around this:

NOTE: 100 dollar is equal to 739.14 Swedish Krona today.

Steelseries kana v2 390 kr

Logitech G100S Gaming Mouse 399
Logitech G302 Daedalus Prime Gaming Mouse 499 kr
Logitech G402 Hyperion Fury FPS Gaming Mouse 599 kr
Logitech G502 Proteus Core 799 kr

Mionix Naos 7000 Gaming Mouse 599 kr
Mionix Avior 7000 Gaming Mouse 549 kr

Zowie FK1 Gaming Mouse 549 kr

So really the only mouse here that is above 100 US dollar is the G502 and among the Ambidextrous mice with side buttons none of them are above that prize point.


----------



## buzztiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Which country are you located in? Because around here in Europe every ambi mouse with side buttons is <100$, only the sensei wireless isn't.
> 
> Otherwise the most expensive would be the Mionix Avior 7000 which is 80€ MSRP, you can actually get it much cheaper. FK1 is 70€, G302 is 50€...


I am from Southeast Asia. So my budget is about USD$80 for the mouse. Mionix mouse are not available in my country.


----------



## Raghar

I wonder, is there a way how to remove that blue colored part at the bottom of the mouse, without breaking functionality and possibly with ability to assemble it back to be able to keep warranty?

Well I dislike blue, and that part is sticking at the left of mouse and it's quite visible.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> Well I dislike blue, and that part is sticking at the left of mouse and it's quite visible.


Best get busy with a Sharpie







.


----------



## Phillychuck

Anyone notice the cable starting to fray coming out of the mouse? Because of the slack on my desk it seems to have a pretty sharp right bend and the braid looks like its getting loose.

Not the biggest deal now but in a year I bet it looks like a hot mess.


----------



## buzztiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phillychuck*
> 
> Anyone notice the cable starting to fray coming out of the mouse? Because of the slack on my desk it seems to have a pretty sharp right bend and the braid looks like its getting loose.
> 
> Not the biggest deal now but in a year I bet it looks like a hot mess.


Mine fraying a little and i don't have it hanging over sharp bend. It frays by dragging on cloth pad. Now I am starting to hate braided cable.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *buzztiger*
> 
> Mine fraying a little and i don't have it hanging over sharp bend. It frays by dragging on cloth pad. Now I am starting to hate braided cable.


Yep, its from rubbing on a cloth pad.

I have a release day one on a hard pad and the cable still looks new.


----------



## mitavreb

The G502 I had did have some fraying but it's kinda surprising that it was at the part of the cable closest to the mouse. I never noticed that part rubbing on my mouse pad.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Just got the G502. Really liking it so far but there is room for improvement.

1) RGB
2) Lighter
3) The cord could be smaller in diameter and use different braid.
4) Have hard time reaching G4.


----------



## dontspamme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raghar*
> 
> I wonder, is there a way how to remove that blue colored part at the bottom of the mouse, without breaking functionality and possibly with ability to assemble it back to be able to keep warranty?


I filed it off with Dremel tools.

Warranty will be gone, obviously.


----------



## Maximillion

Dremel is a really cool name. It sounds like the last name of an action hero and an obscure woodwind instrument at the same time.


----------



## cravinmild

NCIX

Nov 28 instore only (good enough reason to go outside)

Too Low To Show
http://www.ncix.com/article/BlackFriday2014.htm


----------



## tHe jAn1T0R

Hi guys. I just got this mouse yesterday and I realised that there were no drivers for windows 8.1 for the logitech gaming software? I tried installing the windows 8 version and it says "Sorry, this software is not compatible with your operating system. Please visit http://www.logitech.com/support to download a compatible version." But there isn't one. I also tried running it in compatibility mode but still didn't work







. Can anyone help







?


----------



## Venrar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tHe jAn1T0R*
> 
> Hi guys. I just got this mouse yesterday and I realised that there were no drivers for windows 8.1 for the logitech gaming software? I tried installing the windows 8 version and it says "Sorry, this software is not compatible with your operating system. Please visit http://www.logitech.com/support to download a compatible version." But there isn't one. I also tried running it in compatibility mode but still didn't work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Can anyone help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


I have 8.1 and they worked fine for me.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tHe jAn1T0R*
> 
> Hi guys. I just got this mouse yesterday and I realised that there were no drivers for windows 8.1 for the logitech gaming software? I tried installing the windows 8 version and it says "Sorry, this software is not compatible with your operating system. Please visit http://www.logitech.com/support to download a compatible version." But there isn't one. I also tried running it in compatibility mode but still didn't work
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Can anyone help
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


8.1 is exactly the same for 8 just install it as adminstrator


----------



## povohat

Haha I had this same issue on windows 7. You need to wait a couple of seconds on their website after selecting 64bit for the page to update and offer the 64bit download. Check the file you are trying to run, does it have x86 in the name?


----------



## ZealotKi11er

After using the mouse for 1 week i love it. It has the same material found in DSLRs which i love. The sensor is amazing.


----------



## dukeReinhardt

Has anyone found a way to mod the thing to reduce weight? Like, maybe replacing screws with glue, or using a custom wheel... maybe that's a bit involved.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dukeReinhardt*
> 
> Has anyone found a way to mod the thing to reduce weight? Like, maybe replacing screws with glue, or using a custom wheel... maybe that's a bit involved.


After having taken apart G400's before, I can say dual PCB Logitech mice are a nightmware to work with. I took apart a Sensei before and reduced the weight by something like 20 grams by gutting everything in the mouse. When I put it back together, the clicks and everything worked great, same as before.

When I tried this process on the G400, I had a much harder time getting everything to fit together to resemble the factory new feel. It seems like the Logitech internal structures on many of their mice are overly bloated with complexity for really no reason.

The G9x seemed like a very simple internal design, much like the Xai/Sensei/Kana compared to several of their other mice.


----------



## dukeReinhardt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> After having taken apart G400's before, I can say dual PCB Logitech mice are a nightmware to work with. I took apart a Sensei before and reduced the weight by something like 20 grams by gutting everything in the mouse. When I put it back together, the clicks and everything worked great, same as before.
> 
> When I tried this process on the G400, I had a much harder time getting everything to fit together to resemble the factory new feel. It seems like the Logitech internal structures on many of their mice are overly bloated with complexity for really no reason.
> 
> The G9x seemed like a very simple internal design, much like the Xai/Sensei/Kana compared to several of their other mice.


So I take it the answer's "not yet". Well, I'll remain optimistic. I'm sure someone's going to give this a go at some point


----------



## Lass3

Bought a G502 on Black Friday. I'm impressed, feels good and tracking is good. The only problem I have, is that the scroll wheel is making noises:

Video

Is this normal..?


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lass3*
> 
> Bought a G502 on Black Friday. I'm impressed, feels good and tracking is good. The only problem I have, is that the scroll wheel is making noises:
> 
> Video
> 
> Is this normal..?


Yes. The G502's scroll wheel rattles and makes a faint sound but the one you have does sound a little loud. If you use a headphone you might not hear the noise. Just return if it bothers you.


----------



## SharpShoot3r07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Lass3*
> 
> Bought a G502 on Black Friday. I'm impressed, feels good and tracking is good. The only problem I have, is that the scroll wheel is making noises:
> 
> Video
> 
> Is this normal..?


I didn't think that was normal until I tried it myself. I had a little bit of fun doing that







Mine isn't that loud or sensitive though. I have to wiggle side to side pretty fast to even get the sound.


----------



## dukeReinhardt

Got my mouse. Expectedly heavy as heck, but whatcha gonna do.

Bigger issue: on my black cloth mousemat (qck), the mouse drifts up whenever I put the mouse down. Quite significantly in fact. I tried the surface tuning utility, but it just makes the drift a bit smaller.

The mouse always drifts perfectly upwards, and in fact this symptom appears in all surfaces. I've had the same result on another PC.

I've figured out that this is the result of the sensor drifting upwards when the mouse is at a slight distance above the surface. If I hold the mouse there, the cursor will drift upwards rapidly and indefinitely.

Latest firmware, brand new mouse, surface tuning software did not help. It merely changed the height from the surface at which the sensor drifts.

Should I RMA the mouse, or is this fixable?


----------



## SalmonTaco

I got my new G502 yesterday and tried it out. I like it - it is a little flatter than my G700, the thumb buttons feel a lot more positive, it is quite comfortable. The LED lights are kinda cheesy IMHO.

After 28 SRAW kills in a round of BF4 I'd day it's a keeper.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dukeReinhardt*
> 
> Got my mouse. Expectedly heavy as heck, but whatcha gonna do.
> 
> Bigger issue: on my black cloth mousemat (qck), the mouse drifts up whenever I put the mouse down. Quite significantly in fact. I tried the surface tuning utility, but it just makes the drift a bit smaller.
> 
> The mouse always drifts perfectly upwards, and in fact this symptom appears in all surfaces. I've had the same result on another PC.
> 
> I've figured out that this is the result of the sensor drifting upwards when the mouse is at a slight distance above the surface. If I hold the mouse there, the cursor will drift upwards rapidly and indefinitely.
> 
> Latest firmware, brand new mouse, surface tuning software did not help. It merely changed the height from the surface at which the sensor drifts.
> 
> Should I RMA the mouse, or is this fixable?


RMA the mouse.
Someone else had an issue like this once and they fixed it with a new mouse.


----------



## dukeReinhardt

Thanks, I shall do.

Edit: Amazon accepted the RMA.


----------



## dukeReinhardt

Lol, replacement works perfectly, but the cord came frayed out of the box. Mmmm. How likely is it that the sleeving will unravel? Considering of another RMA, though that would put the situation in danger of becoming a bit silly.

Edit: Eh, gonna keep it. It looks like quality control is extremely lenient. The person in the thread who got their mouse just before me had a wobbly wheel, and in fact so did my first mouse. The free scroll didn't go very far compared to my new mouse, and the wheel also shook on its axis as it spun. Compared to that, my new mouse has a perfect wheel and sensor, just a bit of frayed cable. Seems like I'd definitely be taking a leap of faith if I went for another replacement.

Edit2: Noticed that the replacement's free wheel spinning button also only clicks once instead of twice. Seriously, what the hell is with this quality control.


----------



## dukeReinhardt

Man, what is with the quality control of these mice. Second replacement has an even more frayed cable than my first replacement.

Yeah, tired of this crap. giving up and going back to my Storm Spawn. Shame, because the sensor was like a revelation to me. Turns out max tracking speed was really letting me down on my Spawn, and something else as well felt much better about the G502's sensor. At a guess, it feels like there was (much) less lag involved.


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dukeReinhardt*
> 
> Man, what is with the quality control of these mice. Second replacement has an even more frayed cable than my first replacement.
> 
> Yeah, tired of this crap. giving up and going back to my Storm Spawn. Shame, because the sensor was like a revelation to me. Turns out max tracking speed was really letting me down on my Spawn, and something else as well felt much better about the G502's sensor. At a guess, it feels like there was (much) less lag involved.


Is the fraying really that bad? Why not give Logitech a call? They seem to have good customer support.


----------



## SalmonTaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> Is the fraying really that bad? Why not give Logitech a call? They seem to have good customer support.


^^^this^^^

My experience with Logitech customer service was superb.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dukeReinhardt*
> 
> Man, what is with the quality control of these mice. Second replacement has an even more frayed cable than my first replacement.
> 
> Yeah, tired of this crap. giving up and going back to my Storm Spawn. Shame, because the sensor was like a revelation to me. Turns out max tracking speed was really letting me down on my Spawn, and something else as well felt much better about the G502's sensor. At a guess, it feels like there was (much) less lag involved.


China.

They have amazing warranty support, just use it


----------



## ShoehornHands

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SalmonTaco*
> 
> ^^^this^^^
> 
> My experience with Logitech customer service was superb.


I'll second this.

I RMAd a $39.99 mouse that they were no longer manufacturing and they let me upgrade to a G502 (didn't even make me send back the old one either).

A friend of mine RMAd a keyboard and his experience was similar to mine (i.e. a positive one).


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShoehornHands*
> 
> I'll second this.
> 
> I RMAd a $39.99 mouse that they were no longer manufacturing and they let me upgrade to a G502 (didn't even make me send back the old one either).
> 
> A friend of mine RMAd a keyboard and his experience was similar to mine (i.e. a positive one).


Need we say more........ONLY in the United States of America but nowhere else on this planet. You guys really should enjoy such service because it doesn't apply anywhere else, for the rest of us poor bastards.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Need we say more........ONLY in the United States of America but nowhere else on this planet. You guys really should enjoy such service because it doesn't apply anywhere else, for the rest of us poor bastards.


If you had Michael Meyers for a customer rep then I think you should prod one of the more social representatives they have either here or not Reddit. With your horror story they should feed and burp you accordingly with excellent service.


----------



## fuzzybass

So... can anyone share their experiences with the weight of the G502? I actually bought one when it first came out, and then returned it because of the weight. But I'm thinking maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance, and thinking of trying it again. Either that, or I'll try out the G402.

To how many people has it been a problem that they had to return it? Or has it not been a problem at all for others? Also please mention what games you play...


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Need we say more........ONLY in the United States of America but nowhere else on this planet. You guys really should enjoy such service because it doesn't apply anywhere else, for the rest of us poor bastards.


You don't know what you're talking about. I live in EU. I just asked their support where to buy replacement feet for my G500 and they offered me a free G502.


----------



## DiNet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Need we say more........ONLY in the United States of America but nowhere else on this planet. You guys really should enjoy such service because it doesn't apply anywhere else, for the rest of us poor bastards.


Had my G5 replaced to 500 by the shop I bought from because G5 was EOL and my cord broke...
Don't buy from alibaba/ebay...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> So... can anyone share their experiences with the weight of the G502? I actually bought one when it first came out, and then returned it because of the weight. But I'm thinking maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance, and thinking of trying it again. Either that, or I'll try out the G402.
> 
> To how many people has it been a problem that they had to return it? Or has it not been a problem at all for others? Also please mention what games you play...


It's changeable weight mouse...


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> So... can anyone share their experiences with the weight of the G502? I actually bought one when it first came out, and then returned it because of the weight. But I'm thinking maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance, and thinking of trying it again. Either that, or I'll try out the G402.
> 
> To how many people has it been a problem that they had to return it? Or has it not been a problem at all for others? Also please mention what games you play...


Well the weight can be a problem if you like to lift the mouse up a lot, even if you're natural with a claw grip. Moving it sideways is not an issue if you're using a low friction mouse mat.

I play CSGO most of the time and I'm a low sense gamer, there's a lot of re-positioning and lifting that I had to do with the G502, so the weight became tiring on my hand.


----------



## metal571

Rule number one is not to buy the G502 if you are a low sens guy.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Rule number one is not to buy the G502 if you are a low sens guy.


Then who the hell is supposed to use it because I can use it with high sensitivity for about 10 minutes trying to do flick shots with 130grams before my wrist feels like a car ran over it.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Then who the hell is supposed to use it because I can use it with high sensitivity for about 10 minutes trying to do flick shots with 130grams before my wrist feels like a car ran over it.


I wouldn't use it either but know people who do and they're on hard mats at higher sensitivity. Even then it's just barely usable.


----------



## Arc0s

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> So... can anyone share their experiences with the weight of the G502? I actually bought one when it first came out, and then returned it because of the weight. But I'm thinking maybe I didn't give it enough of a chance, and thinking of trying it again. Either that, or I'll try out the G402.
> 
> To how many people has it been a problem that they had to return it? Or has it not been a problem at all for others? Also please mention what games you play...


I did the same thing the first time I bought it, immediately returned it because of the weight. The second time I decided to try it for a longer time and I've been using it for over two months, but sadly the weight is still an issue. I even opened it up to see if there was something I could remove to make it lighter but found nothing, thought of replacing the heavy wheel with a g500 wheel but the difference is only one gram.I get pain in my wrist after an hour or so of playing.So now I'm on the hunt for a new mouse again, ordered a g302 shape looks awkward but who knows maybe I'll like it. Also keeping an eye out for the new mionix castor mouse.


----------



## connectwise

O god, same issue. I'm back to the original FK now too. G502 is going up for sale on the bay or something. It's literally unplayable for some games.

I also dislike that the mb1 is concave but mb2 is convex. What the fudge is that.


----------



## CorruptBE

Basically Logitech tried to improve upon an iconic shape that probably sold well for 10 years...

... and failed









(MX500, MX518, G5, G400, G400S, G500)


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *connectwise*
> 
> O god, *same issue*. I'm back to the original FK now too. G502 is going up for sale on the bay or something. It's literally unplayable for some games.
> 
> I also dislike that the mb1 is concave but mb2 is convex. What the fudge is that.


What is that issue?


----------



## Phillychuck

Forced myself to use the my G502 for months since paying so much for it. Plugged my DA 2013 in yesterday and already feels so much better to me. I gotta stop getting hyped into products 

I had been using the DA design since 2011, thought the grass was greener!


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> What is that issue?


As the one post above mine.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

G502 is a dam good mouse. You guys that like light mice stick to light mice and stop talking down a amazing product.


----------



## ClickTap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> G502 is a dam good mouse. You guys that like light mice stick to light mice and stop talking down a amazing product.


There is truth to this. G502 was designed for a mainstream market that uses high dpi after all. It wasn't really meant for the light, low sens enthusiast crowd.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ClickTap*
> 
> There is truth to this. G502 was designed for a mainstream market that uses high dpi after all. It wasn't really meant for the light, low sens enthusiast crowd.


Dont you need high HPI for high resolution screen? I used to be fine with 1000 but not even 1600 is not cutting it.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Dont you need high HPI for high resolution screen? I used to be fine with 1000 but not even 1600 is not cutting it.


you would need an extremely high resolution for anything over 800 CPI to be anything less than just sensitivity

iirc 1080p is abound 230 min CPI useable without skipping or whatever


----------



## hza

People complain about G502 because it wasn't made especially for them. They believe most people are low-senser and play on 640x480. I'm exaggerating of course.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> People complain about G502 because it wasn't made especially for them. They believe most people are low-senser and play on 640x480. I'm exaggerating of course.


Honestly, id use the 502 if it didnt have the sniper button, the heavy, gimmicky wheel (to me) and the high weight

Oh and the extra buttons on the left click, remove those and id pay 10usd more for the mouse than it sells for now

Buuuut, as thats not going to happen, next best bet is CM making a larger Alcor (Hah, as if!







)

Honestly though, why have a weight system in the mouse if it only allows you to choose between heavy and really heavy


----------



## Phillychuck

I didn't say anything about the weight, I just don't think the shape suits me. My hand would ache after a few hours of using it, same thing happened when using the G600. I wouldn't have bought it or kept it all these months if I thought it was a bad product, I love returning crap I don't care for.


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Honestly, id use the 502 if it didnt have the sniper button, the heavy, gimmicky wheel (to me) and the high weight
> 
> Oh and the extra buttons on the left click, remove those and id pay 10usd more for the mouse than it sells for now
> 
> Buuuut, as thats not going to happen, next best bet is CM making a larger Alcor (Hah, as if!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> Honestly though, why have a weight system in the mouse if it only allows you to choose between heavy and really heavy


come on you lightweight boy do you even lift? no reason to whine about a more heavy mouse, you have dozend of lightweightchoices on the market or am i wrong. and this no front, this is just a funny meant quote.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mousefan*
> 
> come on you lightweight boy do you even lift? no reason to whine about a more heavy mouse, you have dozend of lightweightchoices on the market or am i wrong. and this no front, this is just a funny meant quote.


I dont lift, i heard from reliable r0aches that if you lift anything over 90g your wrists will break and your ears implode!


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CorruptBE*
> 
> Basically Logitech tried to improve upon an iconic shape that probably sold well for 10 years...
> 
> ... and failed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (MX500, MX518, G5, G400, G400S, G500)


I agree totally. They advanced with futurestyle shape that caused the lack of past comfort.

I tend to like the old well rounded shapes of Logitech alot more.

this sensor for example in a g400/mx518 and maybe in another well rounded with stronger ergonomics as G700 is all you need.

but I'll try the Protus Core pretty soon after dealing out the upcoming order with my mom cause I am blank right now.


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> I dont lift, i heard from reliable r0aches that if you lift anything over 90g your wrists will break and your ears implode!


hehe yeah sports can be deadly.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mousefan*
> 
> hehe yeah sports can be deadly.


I just had a small cardiac arrest because you wrote sports, also my fingers ate the fingernails and im in extreme pain due to it


----------



## fuzzybass

Now now... to be fair, I DID ask for people's opinions/experiences with the G502, specifically regarding its weight. No need to bash people who have had negative experiences with them - just because someone has a negative experience and/or writes about it, doesn't mean they're "talking down" the product.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> Now now... to be fair, I DID ask for people's opinions/experiences with the G502, specifically regarding its weight. No need to bash people who have had negative experiences with them - just because someone has a negative experience and/or writes about it, doesn't mean they're "talking down" the product.


I come to this thread and all i hear is weigh weight weight..... We get it. A lot of people dont even care but they hear the mouse elitist and believe that they have to have a light weight mouse.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> I come to this thread and all i hear is weigh weight weight..... We get it. A lot of people dont even care but they hear the mouse elitist and believe that they have to have a light weight mouse.


Right... but this time it's because I specifically asked what people's experiences were, with the weight of the product.

And sometimes... if a product just has a particularly bad issue with something specific, it will be brought up. It's just the nature of how things go - you can't expect people to just not talk about negative aspects about products forever.

If you didn't have a problem with the G502 weight, maybe you should speak on that, instead of the people who have negative OPINIONS about the weight.


----------



## Falkentyne

How come I can use the g502 for 12 hours a day and not get tired?

Maybe if you guys actually lifted like fatal1ty gamers these days wouldn't be as fragile as skinny Asian sweatstop slave children


----------



## semantics

What i'm not top physical form with my gamer diet of doritos and mt. due? Seriously you know what strain is in your soreness in your muscles it's called building new muscles, goddam twigs.


----------



## Puck

I wonder how people wear watches on their wrist every day for 12 hours at a time for years on end without their hands falling off.

A decent watch is HEAVIER then the 90g people here claim a mouse needs to weigh, and after wearing one for a day or two you do not even notice its their anymore. How can you say you won't adjust to a 20g difference in a mouse resting on a surface, when you can adjust to a 100g difference right on your wrist being flung around all day?


----------



## fuzzybass

So the "not too heavy" crowd are slinging insults towards the "too heavy" crowd. The "not too heavy" crowd loses credibility on this one.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> I wonder how people wear watches on their wrist every day for 12 hours at a time for years on end without their hands falling off.
> 
> A decent watch is HEAVIER then the 90g people here claim a mouse needs to weigh, and after wearing one for a day or two you do not even notice its their anymore. How can you say you won't adjust to a 20g difference in a mouse resting on a surface, when you can adjust to a 100g difference right on your wrist being flung around all day?


The difference is, with a mouse, you're holding it and lifting it with your fingers. You don't hold a watch - it just sits there on your wrist.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> The difference is, with a mouse, you're holding it and lifting it with your fingers. You don't hold a watch - it just sits there on your wrist.


What about phone these days? My phone is 162 grams and i hold it for hours.


----------



## hza

Weight = personal preference. A lot of things will conclude, if a mouse is too heavy for "you" or not.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> What about phone these days? My phone is 162 grams and i hold it for hours.


You don't wiggle your phone around with your fingers and fling it around, do you? It's like you're saying, "running is the same as walking, because you're both moving your legs".

I don't know why you're so opposed to people having issues with the G502 weight. If they issues with it, they just have issues with it. There's nothing you can do.


----------



## Derp

To those who think the G502's weight isn't a problem, have you ever truly used a mouse under 90g? Most people form their own opinions from personal experience using 108g+ (G502 is around 125g without any weights) mice and then directly comparing to a mouse in the 70-90g range. Even though that might not seem like a big change on paper, the difference is substantial. I prefer lighter mice because I can aim better with them, not because my wrist hurts or anything like that. Ignoring preferences, does it not make sense to prefer an object that you lift with your fingers and swipe for many hours straight to be as light as possible? Where is the logic in wanting that object heavier?

Most corded mice are under 130g which is nothing even for the skinniest person. As strong as you think you are, you're missing the point.


----------



## riznich48

[/quote]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> To those who think the G502's weight isn't a problem, have you ever truly used a mouse under 90g? .


yep. i used a g100s for a while. thought it was way too light and hollow feeling. never felt in control of my cursor. i went off about it in another topic but i prefer solid feeling mice which usually come from heavier weighted mice in my experience. something like the savu or kpm feel very solid for how light they are and i can work with.. but the g100s is unusable for me. g502 is my everyday driver and prefer it over the g402 even though the 402 is slightly lighter

also the g502 is 121 g if i recall correctly which is closer to 120 than 125 . but it feels no different in hand weight wise than something like a deathadder or avior 7000 does to me. deathadder and avior 7000 actually feel bulkier due to the shape and give my hand fatigue which the g502 doesn't as i'm able to grip it effortlessly


----------



## a_ak57

What kind of cm/360 do you guys play at? I find it hard to believe anyone playing like 40-60 would actually be happy with 120+g if they've used 80-90g mice.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *riznich48*
> 
> also the g502 is 121 g if i recall correctly which is closer to 120 than 125 .


Around 125g is accurate. 121g is from Cpate opening the mouse, unplugging and removing the cable and stress relief, both of which get lifted when you use the mouse.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> To those who think the G502's weight isn't a problem, have you ever truly used a mouse under 90g? Most people form their own opinions from personal experience using 108g+ (G502 is around 125g without any weights) mice and then directly comparing to a mouse in the 70-90g range. Even though that might not seem like a big change on paper, the difference is substantial. I prefer lighter mice because I can aim better with them, not because my wrist hurts or anything like that. Ignoring preferences, does it not make sense to prefer an object that you lift with your fingers and swipe for many hours straight to be as light as possible? Where is the logic in wanting that object heavier?
> 
> Most corded mice are under 130g which is nothing even for the skinniest person. As strong as you think you are, you're missing the point.


Yes, hated it. Not everyone is low-senser, so, not everyone "aims better" with lighter mice. Have you ever tried to play on high(er) sensitivity on a light and on a heavy mouse? A lot of people who like heavy mice, move their wrist while moving their mouse and not their whole arm. In order to do that properly you need a higher sensitivity. A very light mouse won't do you a favor, if you prefer that way of moving the mouse.


----------



## riznich48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> What kind of cm/360 do you guys play at? I find it hard to believe anyone playing like 40-60 would actually be happy with 120+g if they've used 80-90g mice.


i actually play at 52 with my g502 ( 800 dpi , 1 sens cs:go)

did not like the g100s and love the g502 . like i said weight isn't an issue as much as shape/size/comfort/solid feeling . g502 gives me no fatigue, deathadder and avoir 7000 do . g100s doesn't give me fatigue but isn't as comfortable to grip as the g502 for my grip and felt too hollow/light for me and never felt in control of the mouse/cursor.. i use a qck pad too so it's not like my pad was too slick.

kpm / savu are light mice and were just about on par with the g502 due to shape, size, and feel but i prefer the g502 for other features/reasons. kpm would be my next choice if the g502 and g402 didn't exist


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> To those who think the G502's weight isn't a problem, have you ever truly used a mouse under 90g? Most people form their own opinions from personal experience using 108g+ (G502 is around 125g without any weights) mice and then directly comparing to a mouse in the 70-90g range. Even though that might not seem like a big change on paper, the difference is substantial. I prefer lighter mice because I can aim better with them, not because my wrist hurts or anything like that. Ignoring preferences, does it not make sense to prefer an object that you lift with your fingers and swipe for many hours straight to be as light as possible? Where is the logic in wanting that object heavier?
> 
> Most corded mice are under 130g which is nothing even for the skinniest person. As strong as you think you are, you're missing the point.


Lighter mice might be the bees knees but it seems like you're scoping the G502's weight as a problem rather than a preference.


----------



## FreeElectron

Here is a G502 user


----------



## forthedisplay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Dont you need high HPI for high resolution screen? I used to be fine with 1000 but not even 1600 is not cutting it.


It's not really the DPI, but how you have to move your mouse. If you use low sensitivity (for your monitor resolution), you have to move the mouse around by quite a lot for your movements.

In CS I did notice that lower sensitivity would make me perform better, the accuracy jumps up when you are using low sensitivity. The tradeoff is that movement is far less responsive and requires larger hand movements. Quicker mouse movements aren't really needed in CS so much as the higher accuracy is, because your crosshair should be in the so-called optimal position 99.99% of the time.

In other games higher sensitivity is often better, especially in the RTS-genre and other similar titles.

I can see how some people are "pissed" about the mouse, since it has pretty much the best sensor I've ever used and for some other people the mouse is "unusable" because of the weight / shape and how it goes with lower sensitivities.


----------



## ghostlacuna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> What kind of cm/360 do you guys play at? I find it hard to believe anyone playing like 40-60 would actually be happy with 120+g if they've used 80-90g mice.


i switch between 20cm/360 to 30cm/360 still trying to decide which one to use.

Its not the weight of the 502 that makes me use my FK1 or avior 7000 instead of it.

Its the shape.

Using tilted "ergonomic" mice hurt my hand within minutes and i have found that my hand does not stain or cramp when i use ambidextrous mice.

From talking with others i know that love 502 and are using higher sense aka under 20cm/360 the higher weight is better for them because the mouse don't react to fast to small movements of their wrist.

so basically the higher weight makes it easier for them to counter small movement of the mouse that otherwise could make them overshoot their target


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a G502 user


What's his cm/360?


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> What's his cm/360?


Don't know.
But you can watch some of his videos where he shows his hand and mouse.
I think it's not low any way.


----------



## Anousios

Anyone using this mouse 400 dpi 1.3 sens ? Is it viable ?

Hybrid claw/palm grip.


----------



## DrockinWV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Here is a G502 user


This is pretty awesome! I just picked up a G502 last week and I think it has made my FPS experience better, however not that good lol


----------



## x7007

It depend on what mouse pad you use, people who use low senstivity are usually use cloth mats which the friction is high while using hard is low, it's just the opposite and that's the big change. the mouse just give you the tools to have precision, it's how you use it, like a gun. some people can suffer the heavy gun and the recoil, and some just want fast one movement and a hit. not moving the mouse every 1 second to the end of the mouse pad.

Stop comparing heavy mouse to the precision it gives,.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> I come to this thread and all i hear is weigh weight weight..... We get it. A lot of people dont even care but they hear the mouse elitist and believe that they have to have a light weight mouse.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Stop comparing heavy mouse to the precision it gives,.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Yes, hated it. Not everyone is low-senser, so, not everyone "aims better" with lighter mice.


I just want to quote that post on here, because it is the only thing that has some (mathematical) facts instead of biased opinions.
Make of that what you want though.







Quote:


> Fr=m*dv/dt
> Ff=ì*Fn
> 
> ì is the coefficient of friction, Fr is resultant force, Ff force of friction, Fn normal force, dv/dt acceleration.
> 
> For ì we'll use the coefficient of teflon on teflon, which is around 0.04.
> 
> For m we'll use a Deathadder (148E-3 kg) and a Zowie FK (85E-3 kg).
> 
> For DA: Fn = 148E-3*9.81 = 1.45 N.
> For FK: Fn = 85E-3*9.81 = 0.83 N.
> 
> For DA: Ff = 0.04*Fn = 0.0851 N
> For FK: Ff = 0.04*Fn = 0.0334 N
> 
> So, to start with you need almost twice as much force to make the Deathadder start moving than you need for the FK.
> 
> To make the mice accelerate to 1 m/s in 0.1 seconds (let's say you wanna make a flickrail).
> DA: Fr + Ff = 148E-3 * 1/0.1 + Ff = 1.54 N
> FK : Fr + Ff = 85E-3 * 1/0.1 + Ff = 0.883 N
> 
> The same, almost twice the force required for the same acceleration. But you also need to stop the mouse when it reaches the target.
> 
> From 1 m/s to a standstill in 0.1s, that's the same acceleration only in reverse.
> DA: Fr - Ff = 148E-3 * 1/0.1 - Ff = 1.42 N
> FK: Fr - Ff = 85E-3 * 1/0.1 - Ff = 0.817 N
> 
> Still the exact same factor. You still require almost twice the amount of force from your hand to stop the mouse. That means the extra friction given from a heavy mouse does not help you stop the mouse. Some people think more friction (or weight) gives more control. Simple mathematics is enough to prove them wrong. Lower weight gives you both better glide AND better control.


----------



## x7007

in this equation you didn't put any hand algorithm ( joking )

but you focus on the numbers and not on the actual game play, just like a game. I had SteelSeries SX and still has on the side, EVERY mouse I tested on in was just as good, heavy or not heavy, it was smooth and fast and I could do the same thing without feeling pain or lower "gaming" performance.

the bloody Middle mouse button is heavier than the whole mouse, it is so hard to click on, for a game like Company of Heroes 2 you need to use it to scroll the map, it was pain in the ass.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I just want to quote that post on here, because it is the only thing that has some (mathematical) facts instead of biased opinions.
> Make of that what you want though.


People don't complain about about weight because of friction.


----------



## ghostlacuna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Anousios*
> 
> Anyone using this mouse 400 dpi 1.3 sens ? Is it viable ?
> 
> Hybrid claw/palm grip.


What game?

If its CS GO it would equal to 79.9301 cm for a 360. Its doable as the 502 should be able to handle that max speed. Then the size of your mousepad and the speed you can move your mouse with precision will be the things that limit you.

Its a great mice i just cant handle the shape


----------



## 7Teku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrockinWV*
> 
> This is pretty awesome! I just picked up a G502 last week and I think it has made my FPS experience better, however not that good lol


You say that like it was actually good.


----------



## x7007

Lets take it like this,, I don't see the german complained about a Tiger tank of 2 tons. it still kicked 7 tanks together at the same time, and the cannon had like 200 dpi and moved like 3m per 32inch ( just throwing numbers here







)

and he didn't have cloth or plastic surface to go on , and it still went like a cheetah.

joking aside, I must have a point in all this.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I just want to quote that post on here, because it is the only thing that has some (mathematical) facts instead of biased opinions.
> Make of that what you want though.


Source of those equations and detailed explanation.

Also please factor the hand weight.


----------



## DrockinWV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7Teku*
> 
> You say that like it was actually good.


You didnt like the video


----------



## 7Teku

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrockinWV*
> 
> You didnt like the video


Not really. I found it funny that the title of the video is asking if he should send it into a top plays, even though it wasn't remotely impressive.


----------



## DrockinWV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7Teku*
> 
> Not really. I found it funny that the title of the video is asking if he should send it into a top plays, even though it wasn't remotely impressive.


You must be pretty talented then, I thought it was pretty neat


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *7Teku*
> 
> Not really. I found it funny that the title of the video is asking if he should send it into a top plays, even though it wasn't remotely impressive.


For the general masses... it is impressive!
Maybe you have better aim than that, or maybe not. after all it doesn't matter as this video is generally good.


----------



## agawthrop

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrockinWV*
> 
> You must be pretty talented then, I thought it was pretty neat


Agreed. I'm a noob, so that's really impressive. I'd have died in the beginning!


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> but you focus on the numbers and not on the actual game play, just like a game. I had SteelSeries SX and still has on the side, EVERY mouse I tested on in was just as good, heavy or not heavy, it was smooth and fast and I could do the same thing without feeling pain or lower "gaming" performance.


I guess that equation is just to prove that lower weight is beneficial.
Of course, that only really applies 100% when you have the EXACT same mouse with the only difference being the weight.
A situation that only exists when using a mouse with a weight system.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> People don't complain about about weight because of friction.


More weight means more effort to start AND stop moving the mouse. That's all that this equation proves.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Lets take it like this,, I don't see the german complained about a Tiger tank of 2 tons. it still kicked 7 tanks together at the same time, and the cannon had like 200 dpi and moved like 3m per 32inch ( just throwing numbers here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> 
> and he didn't have cloth or plastic surface to go on , and it still went like a cheetah.
> 
> joking aside, I must have a point in all this.


Ermmmm, ok?









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Source of those equations and detailed explanation.
> 
> Also please factor the hand weight.


Hand weight stays the same right? Or do you use different hands for gaming?








Source: http://www.quakelive.com/forum/showthread.php?30294-A-Guide-to-Gear-and-Settings.&p=251249&viewfull=1#post251249


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *agawthrop*
> 
> Agreed. I'm a noob, so that's really impressive. I'd have died in the beginning!


Watch the rest of the videos.
Regardless of his aim his movements and map control is also impressive.

Note : Sometimes i can do better than this guy both tactically and physically (better aim) but that does not mean anything.
The guy is still good

The reason i posted the video here is to show that it is possible to play like that with this mouse.
I am very skeptical about the weight's effect in gameplay.


----------



## SalmonTaco

I'm starting to really like my G502. I'm running it at 2K DPI on a Steelseries qck mat.

The G700 I used before the G502 felt a lot heavier to me.


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> I just want to quote that post on here, because it is the only thing that has some (mathematical) facts instead of biased opinions.
> Make of that what you want though.


First of all, if you quote my statement, please use the whole thing. Second I was refering to Derp's 70-90g range. And third you can't prove me on something wrong I've tested myself and couldn't get comfortable (aka wasn't able to do "precise" shots compared with a 90+ g mouse) in any way. I didn't even like it on desktop. It felt uncomfortable in games and desktop. However, I should have specified I can use every ~ 90g mouse and above as long as the shape works for me. Maths can't prove individual factors in this case.


----------



## FreeElectron

*The calculations*

*Sources:-*

Roccat Kone Pure Military Weight = 90gm = *0.09*kg (without cable)
Logitech G502 Weight = 121gm = *0.121*kg (without cable)
Friction Equation : *Fr = uN*
Teflon to Teflon static coefficient of friction = *0.04*

Teflon to Teflon kinetic coefficient of friction = *0.04*
Average Human Hand Weight = *250~500*gm
As there is no difference in the coefficient in both static and kinetic modes then one equation per mouse should be enough.


Fr (KPM) = 0.04*9.81*0.09 = 0.035316
Fr (G502) = 0.04*9.81*0.121 = 0.0474804
Ratio between Fr(G502)/Fr(KPM) = 0.0474804/0.035316 = 1.344

Calculations considering heavier hands or partial hand weight applied as added weight.
We will choose 100gm only of hand weight.
Added weight = .1kg

Recalculating considering hand's existence.

Fr (KPM+H) = 0.04*9.81*0.19 = 0.074556
Fr (G502+H) = 0.04*9.81*0.221 = 0.0867204
Ratio between Fr(G502+H)/Fr(KPM+H) = 0.0867204/0.074556 = 1.16315

The ratio is less with the added weight.

The problematic part may not be the friction but, may instead be the wrist's continues lifting of the mouse.


----------



## mousefan

Get mine in the next upcoming minutes. I let you know what I persoanlly think of that Proteus Core after a few Session and hours of CSGO.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> First of all, if you quote my statement, please use the whole thing. Second I was refering to Derp's 70-90g range. And third you can't prove me on something wrong I've tested myself and couldn't get comfortable (aka wasn't able to do "precise" shots compared with a 90+ g mouse) in any way. I didn't even like it on desktop. It felt uncomfortable in games and desktop. However, I should have specified I can use every ~ 90g mouse and above as long as the shape works for me. Maths can't prove individual factors in this case.


Hooooold your horses! Why are you so mad now?
I just posted a quote of someone who thought mathematics might come in handy for the discussion of the weight of mice.
Don't want to prove anything to you. Use what works best for you.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Recalculating considering hand's existence.
> 
> Fr (KPM+H) = 0.04*9.81*0.19 = 0.074556
> Fr (G502+H) = 0.04*9.81*0.221 = 0.0867204
> Ratio between Fr(G502+H)/Fr(KPM+H) = 0.0867204/0.074556 = 1.16315
> 
> The ratio is less with the added weight.
> 
> The problematic part may not be the friction but, may instead be the wrist's continues lifting of the mouse.


That is some interesting stuff.
I remeber one person saying that the more contact you have with the mouse (basically palm grip or palmish grip) might be best for the most control.
Not sure about that but there could be some truth to that , considering that a palmish grip automatically gives more pressure onto the mouse and therefore negating the weight of the mouse itself.

As always, consistency is key.


----------



## mousefan

OK few words to this mouse.

-Responsiveness and Tracking top notch over the top
-Clickfeeling good upperclass compared to others and really nice defined to do every shottechnique in cs you like and I have no problem with any of the extrabuttons on this mouse, I rather use a few extra ones really comfortable.
-Glide really nice and even
-Quality and Haptic outstanding
-Weightsystem great and I packed them all in
-Shape even it looks futurelike mechlike or however you wanna call it the shape feels well and nice comparable to a g400 just with better ergonomics.
-Software great performing and bugfree

You know I probably never make use of these extreme low sense speeds this mouse offers with my mid-low sense 45cm per 360 (exactly) but it's cool knowing everything is possible with that beauty.

Fazit: awesome hardwarepiece of Logitech

Huge Respect!


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Hooooold your horses! Why are you so mad now?
> I just posted a quote of someone who thought mathematics might come in handy for the discussion of the weight of mice.
> Don't want to prove anything to you. Use what works best for you.
> That is some interesting stuff.
> I remeber one person saying that the more contact you have with the mouse (basically palm grip or palmish grip) might be best for the most control.
> Not sure about that but there could be some truth to that , considering that a palmish grip automatically gives more pressure onto the mouse and therefore negating the weight of the mouse itself.
> 
> As always, consistency is key.


The thing is that the force required to move the mouse = friction coefficient * mouse weight force
While the force required to lift the mouse > mouse weight force

If you calculate the difference between those two you will find that the lifting is the issue not the friction.


----------



## MagicBox

Great mouse, the high sensitivity is great on 1440p. Full coverage without ever lifting the mouse, yet it is pixel precise, no skipping. I'm a palm guy and as such the mouse feels solid in my hand and so far haven't gotten fatigue moving it around. I can rest my hand on it well enough and grip it well for accurate control.

Oh have I said yet the sensor is magnificent? I don't use a mouse mat, I just mouse on my desk. After calibrating it to my desk, movement is accurate and silky smooth.

Very pleased with my purchase


----------



## mousefan

a blessing! what is this mouse? a blessing! XD

It's bestseller number 1 on amazon and will probably stay the best sold mouse in 2015.

this mouse just has it all.

so it's just about the shapecomfort and as a former g400 use i gotta say it's nice with regular big hands.

technically and qualitywise this mouse is an unquestionable ace.

and the whole construction of the g502 is awesome.

as i saw that mouse the first time is though what the hack, what is logitech doing?

But if you got it in your own hands, with an eye and all relevant aspects it's THE Mouse right now.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mousefan*
> 
> a blessing! what is this mouse? a blessing! XD
> 
> It's bestseller number 1 on amazon and will probably stay the best sold mouse in 2015.
> 
> this mouse just has it all.
> 
> so it's just about the shapecomfort and as a former g400 use i gotta say it's nice with regular big hands.
> 
> technically and qualitywise this mouse is an unquestionable ace.
> 
> and the whole construction of the g502 is awesome.
> 
> as i saw that mouse the first time is though what the hack, what is logitech doing?
> 
> But if you got it in your own hands, with an eye and all relevant aspects it's THE Mouse right now.


How long have you played with it?
Did it cause hand fatigue?

Please make a 10+ hour gaming session (If you can) and then answer those questions again


----------



## mousefan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> How long have you played with it?
> Did it cause hand fatigue?
> 
> Please make a 10+ hour gaming session (If you can) and then answer those questions again


hm do you know I even lift? I dont get a cramp with such a mouse but our physics are different so I wont say you are not right, but let's see and have mercy main. 10 hours gamingsession. I will start playing in a few minutes concretely and tomorrow or later on I will tell ya something about it. deal brother!









for me this shape is just similiar to g400 just with better ergonomics, but maybe you came from mice which were never comparable to those logitech shapes as proteus and g400 and so on.

maybe that caused it? but who knows. I'll tell ya later or tomorrow.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mousefan*
> 
> hm do you know I even lift? I dont get a cramp with such a mouse but our physics are different so I wont say you are not right, but let's see and have mercy main. 10 hours gamingsession. I will start playing in a few minutes concretely and tomorrow or later on I will tell ya something about it. deal brother!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> for me this shape is just similiar to g400 just with better ergonomics, but maybe you came from mice which were never comparable to those logitech shapes as proteus and g400 and so on.
> 
> maybe that caused it? but who knows. I'll tell ya later or tomorrow.


Thanks


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> What about phone these days? My phone is 162 grams and i hold it for hours.


This previous discussion regarding weight preferences with "slinging insults on both sides".


----------



## riznich48

some people honestly get upset that others prefer heavier mice or don't mind the g502's weight . it's strange/humorous


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *riznich48*
> 
> some people honestly get upset that others prefer heavier mice or don't mind the g502's weight . it's strange/humorous


Indeed. I never understood some of the reactions I got the last time I said I have all the weights in the thing.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *riznich48*
> 
> some people honestly get upset that others prefer heavier mice or don't mind the g502's weight . it's strange/humorous


I'm... pretty sure it was the other way around. People who don't mind the G502's weight were the ones throwing insults to the people who do. Check the posts again.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> I'm... pretty sure it was the other way around. People who don't mind the G502's weight were the ones throwing insults to the people who do. Check the posts again.


Throughout the forum it's mostly posters overreacting on the G502 weight and shell. "They" don't like it. "They" think its impossible to use. Overblown personal dislike into unusable flaw wherever you can and suddenly people are parroting the same narrative.


----------



## a_ak57

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SmashTV*
> 
> Throughout the forum it's mostly posters overreacting on the G502 weight and shell. "They" don't like it. "They" think its impossible to use. Overblown personal dislike into unusable flaw wherever you can and suddenly people are parroting the same narrative.


I don't really see what that has to do with what he said or how this most recent incident was clearly due to people making fun of those who like light mice.


----------



## riznich48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> I'm... pretty sure it was the other way around. People who don't mind the G502's weight were the ones throwing insults to the people who do. Check the posts again.


nope. any time i say i don't mind the g502 weight termites come out of the woodwork and say LIAR! or HOW COULD U LIKE HEAVY WHEN ITS OBJECTIVELY WORSE!! I BET U NEVER EVEN TRIED A LIGHT MOUSE BEFORE BECAUSE THEY ARE BETTER like they are so upset that i could possible enjoy the g502. i've seen it happen to others as well. it's a strange phenomenon


----------



## TimothyJB

I'm thinking about picking up a G502 and *my question is whether any of you grip your mouse with middle finger over scroll wheel and ring finger for right click?* I much prefer this grip but it depends on the mouse, I found it felt much more natural when I was using a R.A.T. mouse but my G600 not so, though that's probably more because of the dedicated ring finger button than anything else

I'm currently using a Logitech G600 so I don't think size or weight will be a problem even though I have fairly small hands, hopefully the DPI shift thumb button is not too much of a stretch because I want that to double my DPI when gaming for fast flicks as I'm a very low sensitivity gamer and thats what I use the DPI shift on my G600 for, quickly flipping around or clearing distant corners. I'm sure it will take me some time to get used to not having 12 thumb buttons but since I'm playing FPS and not MMO games at the moment it shouldn't be a problem, particularly now that I've set up my Razer Orbweaver Stealth with all the binds I need for CS:GO.

Hopefully will be a worthy pick up - from everything I've looked at to do with the sensor and tracking it looks great, just wish I could make the lighting green


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *riznich48*
> 
> some people honestly get upset that others prefer heavier mice or don't mind the g502's weight . it's strange/humorous


It is not a preference situation. Using heavy mice with claw or fingertip grip can and probably will cause damage to your wrist over extended periods of time.


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> It is not a preference situation. Using heavy mice with claw or fingertip grip can and probably will cause damage to your wrist over extended periods of time.


Depends on the sensitivity you play at. I play at about 1in / 360 and my wrist never moves. I do all my control with my fingers.


----------



## error-id10t

Should I buy this over my G500s?


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> I play at about 1in / 360












Never gets old.


----------



## r0ach

I feel around 15cm/360 is about the fastest someone can be accurate with. Anything faster gives no benefit to turn speed or anything anyway.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Never gets old.


Basically what I also said lol

Fix your sensitivity.


----------



## trhead

2.5cm/360? wow. Even the oldest skool Quakeworld players don't use such high sensitivity









Maybe you are really talented ( or a robot?) but most people can't achieve any kind of consistent aim with 1 inch


----------



## riznich48

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> It is not a preference situation.


thanks for proving my point . and yes it is preference. why are you so bothered by other peoples preferences? do you scream into your pillow at night knowing some people don't mind or *gasp* even prefer some weight to their mice?


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *riznich48*
> 
> thanks for proving my point . and yes it is preference. why are you so bothered by other peoples preferences? do you scream into your pillow at night knowing some people don't mind or *gasp* even prefer some weight to their mice?


I chuckled. Great picture you painted.


----------



## MagicBox

I like my mice like I like my girls: Heavy.


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TimothyJB*
> 
> I'm thinking about picking up a G502 and *my question is whether any of you grip your mouse with middle finger over scroll wheel and ring finger for right click?* I much prefer this grip but it depends on the mouse, I found it felt much more natural when I was using a R.A.T. mouse but my G600 not so, though that's probably more because of the dedicated ring finger button than anything else
> 
> I'm currently using a Logitech G600 so I don't think size or weight will be a problem even though I have fairly small hands, hopefully the DPI shift thumb button is not too much of a stretch because I want that to double my DPI when gaming for fast flicks as I'm a very low sensitivity gamer and thats what I use the DPI shift on my G600 for, quickly flipping around or clearing distant corners. I'm sure it will take me some time to get used to not having 12 thumb buttons but since I'm playing FPS and not MMO games at the moment it shouldn't be a problem, particularly now that I've set up my Razer Orbweaver Stealth with all the binds I need for CS:GO.
> 
> Hopefully will be a worthy pick up - from everything I've looked at to do with the sensor and tracking it looks great, just wish I could make the lighting green


Definitely not the mice to comfortably or naturally held like that.


----------



## Smokey the Bear

As a naos 7000 owner, I've had a good time with my mouse but have been looking at the gladius or g502 to move to. Preferrably an RGB g502 variant if one is ever released. If weight is the main issue with the g502, then that's no issue for me as the naos is a good 30 grams heavier without the weights.

Would anyone recommend this change or advise against it? I understand the 3310 in the naos is quite good.

When my old trusty G5 finally busted down, I tried out a DA 2.5 and hated it, and found it way too light. So that makes me think the gladius is out of the picture. Still very much interested in the g502.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smokey the bear*
> 
> As a naos 7000 owner, I've had a good time with my mouse but have been looking at the gladius or g502 to move to. Preferrably an RGB g502 variant if one is ever released. If weight is the main issue with the g502, then that's no issue for me as the naos is a good 30 grams heavier without the weights.
> 
> Would anyone recommend this change or advise against it? I understand the 3310 in the naos is quite good.
> 
> When my old trusty G5 finally busted down, I tried out a DA 2.5 and hated it, and found it way too light. So that makes me think the gladius is out of the picture. Still very much interested in the g502.


The weight is the only issue.
If you think you can overcome/ignore this issue then this mouse might be an upgrade.


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smokey the bear*
> 
> As a naos 7000 owner, I've had a good time with my mouse but have been looking at the gladius or g502 to move to. Preferrably an RGB g502 variant if one is ever released. If weight is the main issue with the g502, then that's no issue for me as the naos is a good 30 grams heavier without the weights.
> 
> Would anyone recommend this change or advise against it? I understand the 3310 in the naos is quite good.
> 
> When my old trusty G5 finally busted down, I tried out a DA 2.5 and hated it, and found it way too light. So that makes me think the gladius is out of the picture. Still very much interested in the g502.


I switched from G502 to Naos 7000. These two mice are very different. I don't know how you hold the Naos but if you're holding it using a palm grip you might not like the G502's shape since it's narrow and forces a claw grip.

Since weight won't seem to be an issue for you, just make sure that your grip will be the same if you buy a G502 because some had problems with the shape.


----------



## Smokey the Bear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> The weight is the only issue.
> If you think you can overcome/ignore this issue then this mouse might be an upgrade.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> I switched from G502 to Naos 7000. These two mice are very different. I don't know how you hold the Naos but if you're holding it using a palm grip you might not like the G502's shape since it's narrow and forces a claw grip.
> 
> Since weight won't seem to be an issue for you, just make sure that your grip will be the same if you buy a G502 because some had problems with the shape.


I was wondering about this specifically, thanks. I think I hold the naos in a sort of hybrid fashion, leaning more towards a palm grip.

So with this in mind I should really be considering the shell shape and nothing else. Did you find the performance of the NAOS to be a sutiable replacement?

Thanks for the feedback guys. Might be waiting for a while longer yet.


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Smokey the bear*
> 
> I was wondering about this specifically, thanks. I think I hold the naos in a sort of hybrid fashion, leaning more towards a palm grip.
> 
> So with this in mind I should really be considering the shell shape and nothing else. Did you find the performance of the NAOS to be a sutiable replacement?
> 
> Thanks for the feedback guys. Might be waiting for a while longer yet.


Yes. The Naos is a good replacement. The shape I prefer more than the G502's but I like 3366 sensor better, it feels more raw and snappier. The 3310 isn't bad in anyway, I just find it that it feels a little smooth when aiming.


----------



## Smokey the Bear

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> Yes. The Naos is a good replacement. The shape I prefer more than the G502's but I like 3366 sensor better, it feels more raw and snappier. The 3310 isn't bad in anyway, I just find it that it feels a little smooth when aiming.


Cool thanks. I'll stick with my naos until it sees the 3.38 firmware that seems to be working wonders for the avior users. Maybe at that time I'll have an rgb g502 to look at.


----------



## metal571

3.38 esque firmware is coming for NAOS. I don't know when yet but since I was part of figuring out why 3.38 feels just marginally snappier compared to 3.08 in order to port that to the NAOS, I can confirm that it is coming, just don't know when.


----------



## LocutusH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mitavreb*
> 
> Yes. The Naos is a good replacement. The shape I prefer more than the G502's but I like 3366 sensor better, it feels more raw and snappier. The 3310 isn't bad in anyway, I just find it that it feels a little smooth when aiming.


I have a NAOS 7000 and a G502 too. The G502 is a better mouse in EVERY way.


----------



## hza

The Weight Hate Police will disagree


----------



## metal571

Well, the weight hate police are people who play at a super low sens, so it's just impractical for us. G440, higher sensitivity, G502...you're set if that's your style.


----------



## Nivity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Well, the weight hate police are people who play at a super low sens, so it's just impractical for us. G440, higher sensitivity, G502...you're set if that's your style.


Not true for all









I play with 800-1000dpi default sens in mobas,rts.
Around 35cm/360 fps and I cannot use heavy or big mice, I have 0 aim or control with it.
The biggest mouse I could ever use comfortable was my old deathadders, and thats only because I could move the shape around fairly easy with fingertip/claw hybrid grip.
Unlike mice like G402, MX518,Rival etc

I prefer mice under 90 grams and smaller mice like KPM,G100, Kinzu etc.


----------



## metal571

That's not that low though. My 70cm is seen as quite excessively low by a lot of people on the forum but I feel it genuinely helps my aim so I have to have mice 100g or less. There's also the fact that I had pretty bad tendinitis once a couple years ago so I have to play it safe. I hope I've never come across as saying the G502 is an unusable mouse because I highly doubt that would ever be true. But the weight is a drawback for some, not all.


----------



## hza

I wouldn't say impractical. I used mostly about 1.2-1.8 sens in CS 1.5 about 9 years ago (MX518). I know it's not as heavy as the 502, but it's 100+ gram. And before that I even had a MX1000 wireless gaming mouse. THAT was a brick, BUT the most comfortable shape available at that time imo. However, it skipped pixel, enough pixel to replace it asap. Oh, and with that 1.2-1.8 sens (400 dpi) I found my IMO 1.1 too light. Missed a lot of shots compared to the 518 because it was too light for me. Just saying I always felt uncomfortable when the mouse was too light for my taste. I don't think you can generalize preferences. There is nobody 100 % the same as you or me. I don't believe in general rules and think use whatever works and feels comfortable.


----------



## metal571

I actually have to agree with you as recently I discovered the FK1 was actually too light for me as well. I have better recoil control and more accurate smaller-movement-related aim with the Avior due to weight alone.


----------



## FreeElectron

The problem for me is that lighter mice got issues.
I did reach malfunction speed with the DA2013 while playing.
So now it is either 3310 or 3366
And everyone of the 3310 mice has his own issues.
So when comparing all of that it comes to which issues can you overcome and which issues you can't overcome or tolerate.


----------



## metal571

What? What kind of issues with the 3310 are you talking about, because in terms of PCS it's very good, I think better than the 3988 IIRC.


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I feel around 15cm/360 is about the fastest someone can be accurate with. Anything faster gives no benefit to turn speed or anything anyway.


I use exactly double that, 7.5cm/360, and have never had a problem at any level of play. How can you say there is no benefit to turn speed with double the speed? I can flick shot someone at the edge of my screen and go back to center before you're even facing them on 50cm/360 lmao. My good friend uses 6cm/360, which is slightly faster and he has ALL weights in his mouse since he likes the weight. I have none in mine and would love it to be a bit lighter, but its not the huge deal you guys make it out to be.

I would say that we'd love to 2v2 you, but from what I gather you don't even play FPS's - you just love to give advice on what works for them







.


----------



## treav0r

w
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> I use exactly double that, 7.5cm/360, and have never had a problem at any level of play. How can you say there is no benefit to turn speed with double the speed? I can flick shot someone at the edge of my screen and go back to center before you're even facing them on 50cm/360 lmao. My good friend uses 6cm/360, which is slightly faster and he has ALL weights in his mouse since he likes the weight. I have none in mine and would love it to be a bit lighter, but its not the huge deal you guys make it out to be.
> 
> I would say that we'd love to 2v2 you, but from what I gather you don't even play FPS's - you just love to give advice on what works for them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


what FPS do you play?


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> What? What kind of issues with the 3310 are you talking about, because in terms of PCS it's very good, I think better than the 3988 IIRC.


3310 General issues with tracking on hard mats.
Roccat Kone Pure Military : click delay.
Zowie FK1 : no software+ Huano switches.
Avior 7000 : only 21 gm lighter than G502 and sometimes reset software and sensitivity upon windows start.
SS Rival : Unknown build quality and software issues?


----------



## metal571

Never had that problem with the Avior on the latest stable firmware. You just set it in the drivers and go. Also, all of those mice are around 100g except the FK1, which is 25g lighter than the G502.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Never had that problem with the Avior on the latest stable firmware. You just set it in the drivers and go. Also, all of those mice are around 100g except the FK1, which is 25g lighter than the G502.


You mean the 3.38 (i think)?
Doesn't this update increase LOD?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> You mean the 3.38 (i think)?
> Doesn't this update increase LOD?


No it doesn't, I'm trying it right now and it doesn't. 3.08 and 3.38 alike are fine. There is a stable version of 3.08 posted on their site instead of the test version I provided in my thread...which I should probably update. The only thing I noticed as not working in 3.38 was the LED customization.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I actually have to agree with you as recently I discovered the FK1 was actually too light for me as well. I have better recoil control and more accurate smaller-movement-related aim with the Avior due to weight alone.


Did you try like 72 or 75 cm sens instead of 70 with the FK1?
Those small changes make all the difference. Plain using same sens doesn't always work on every mouse. Just sayin'.

I always had to lower my sens a slight bit with the G100S to be comfortable with it.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> No it doesn't, I'm trying it right now and it doesn't. 3.08 and 3.38 alike are fine. There is a stable version of 3.08 posted on their site instead of the test version I provided in my thread...which I should probably update. The only thing I noticed as not working in 3.38 was the LED customization.


I will check it.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> I use exactly double that, 7.5cm/360, and have never had a problem at any level of play. How can you say there is no benefit to turn speed with double the speed? I can flick shot someone at the edge of my screen and go back to center before you're even facing them on 50cm/360 lmao. My good friend uses 6cm/360, which is slightly faster and he has ALL weights in his mouse since he likes the weight. I have none in mine and would love it to be a bit lighter, but its not the huge deal you guys make it out to be.
> 
> I would say that we'd love to 2v2 you, but from what I gather you don't even play FPS's - you just love to give advice on what works for them
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


id 1v1 you just to see how bad ive gotten if we got the same games

on topic though..

If your sens is very high like 3cm/360 but you can still flick shot someone 180 behind you and back again with no issues, then that obviously works just fine for you, and there is no downside given no other issues

The same can be said reversed about low sens like .. 120cm/360, if you can move your arm fast enough to flick shot someone in the face in a split second and back again, then again. no issues at all just the same

whats up with the sensitivity wars? just a random mid sens pleb here, no love for us


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> id 1v1 you just to see how bad ive gotten if we got the same games
> 
> on topic though..
> 
> If your sens is very high like 3cm/360 but you can still flick shot someone 180 behind you and back again with no issues, then that obviously works just fine for you, and there is no downside given no other issues
> 
> The same can be said reversed about low sens like .. 120cm/360, if you can move your arm fast enough to flick shot someone in the face in a split second and back again, then again. no issues at all just the same
> 
> whats up with the sensitivity wars? just a random mid sens pleb here, no love for us


If you guys are doing this 1v1 to prove a point about hardware then please don't.

The outcome of this will depend on two factors

The hardware and configuration
The person
Those two factors are different as there is no proof that both players are on the same skill level.
Which means that the outcome will not actually pinpoint the effectiveness of the hardware and configuration being put to test.

Some people can be really good even with laser mice but, that does not mean that laser mice are better.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> whats up with the sensitivity wars? just a random mid sens pleb here, no love for us


It's about what's realistically possible for a human to *consistently* control. There isn't a professional for any game genre in the history of PC gaming that uses anything remotely that high. I agree with r0ach here, 15cm is around the area where it's plausible for someone with excellent dexterity to be consistent with and anything higher (lower cm/360) is almost certainly holding them back. They might be able to function and land some amazing shots every once and a while but not to their best ability because of poor consistency.

I also believe using too low of a sensitivity (like Metal uses lol) causes obvious problems too.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> If you guys are doing this 1v1 to prove a point about hardware then please don't.
> 
> The outcome of this will depend on two factors
> 
> The hardware and configuration
> The person
> Those two factors are different as there is no proof that both players are on the same skill level.
> Which means that the outcome will not actually pinpoint the effectiveness of the hardware and configuration being put to test.
> 
> Some people can be really good even with laser mice but, that does not mean that laser mice are better.


Oh no, purely for the fun of it, seeing as i havent played fps games properly for years i wonder how bad i am now








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> It's about what's realistically possible for a human to *consistently* control. There isn't a professional for any game genre in the history of PC gaming that uses anything remotely that high. I agree with r0ach here, 15cm is around the area where it's plausible for someone with excellent dexterity to be consistent with and anything higher (lower cm/360) is almost certainly holding them back. They might be able to function and land some amazing shots every once and a while but not to their best ability because of poor consistency.
> 
> I also believe using too low of a sensitivity (like Metal uses lol) causes obvious problems too.


Well, maybe hes some sort of super r0ach that can handle super high sens, or a reversed metal, who knows, i personally started out with an insane 19.7 sens in 1.6 way back with a ball mouse.

Im on 2.66 sens now, with 400 dpi (ime 3.0), which i consider mid sens, or high low sens

I did mean what i wrote as consistently doing it though, obviously, getting random luck shots once a week or month with either of those does not count


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Oh no, purely for the fun of it, seeing as i havent played fps games properly for years i wonder how bad i am now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, maybe hes some sort of super r0ach that can handle super high sens, or a reversed metal, who knows, i personally started out with an insane 19.7 sens in 1.6 way back with a ball mouse.
> 
> Im on 2.66 sens now, with 400 dpi (ime 3.0), which i consider mid sens, or high low sens
> 
> I did mean what i wrote as consistently doing it though, obviously, getting random luck shots once a week or month with either of those does not count


400 CPI and using 2.6 game sensitivity is around 40CM/360 which is a decently low sensitivity. Now go change your 2.6 sensitivity to 41 which sould put you at around 2.5CM/360 as someone here claimed to use and go play a match to understand just how comical it is to use something like that.


----------



## prboss

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MagicBox*
> 
> I like my mice like I like my girls: Heavy.


----------



## detto87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> 400 CPI and using 2.6 game sensitivity is around 40CM/360 which is a decently low sensitivity. Now go change your 2.6 sensitivity to 41 which sould put you at around 2.5CM/360 as someone here claimed to use and go play a match to understand just how comical it is to use something like that.


wow, that just put the thing into a perspective to me.
It's absolutely ridiculous. xD


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> 400 CPI and using 2.6 game sensitivity is around 40CM/360 which is a decently low sensitivity. Now go change your 2.6 sensitivity to 41 which sould put you at around 2.5CM/360 as someone here claimed to use and go play a match to understand just how comical it is to use something like that.


I know its insane, friend of mine uses half the sens i do and i think hes nuts myself

All im saying is that if you can consistently hit with the sens you use, in a timely manner (looking at super low sens here, and correcting for super high sens errors), then thats the sens for you

Just my opinion, Truthfully i doubt anyone can hit a thing consistently against someone at range thats moving with that high a sensitivity


----------



## metal571

Shrug, 70cm works for me. It's a good point that with even lighter mice I might need to lower the sens further to avoid unsteadyness in my hand, but I don't really want to do that lol


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Shrug, *70cm* works for me. It's a good point that with even lighter mice I might need to lower the sens further to avoid unsteadyness in my hand, but I don't really want to do that lol


Excuse me
What is exactly this 70cm you speak of?


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Excuse me
> What is exactly this 70cm you speak of?


If this was a joke, then I laughed lol.

If you weren't trying to make a joke, that means it takes me 70cm of mousepad space to make a 360 degree turn in an FPS. I usually just describe it as inches per 180, which comes out to about 14 inches per 180. The Puretrak Talent is about 19 inches wide, so it works out for me as I'm used to repositioning the mouse a lot and predicting where people will be.


----------



## FreeElectron

Wasn't a joke.
It was a question to confirm what i have just read.

That means you need more than one swipe for 360.. but you need one swipe to reach any one.
Am i correct?


----------



## metal571

I swipe all over the place. Here's what it looks like.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> I swipe all over the place. Here's what it looks like.


Followed.
How much does 1800 dpi with 13% in game sens equal in terms of cm/360?


----------



## detto87

Put a ruler on your pad and measure it.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Put a ruler on your pad and measure it.


I can't get to my gaming rig right now as it is around 1460km away atm.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Followed.
> How much does 1800 dpi with 13% in game sens equal in terms of cm/360?


If you can give me what the gstinput.mousesensitivity value is in profsave_profile I can figure it out


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> If you can give me what the gstinput.mousesensitivity value is in profsave_profile I can figure it out


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I can't get to my gaming rig right now as it is around 1460km away atm.


----------



## metal571

Oh. Oops. lol


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Oh. Oops. lol


Compared to how you move your hands i think i am in the high sens territory but i am not sure.


----------



## metal571

Yeah turning around takes most of my pad.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Yeah turning around takes most of my pad.


Tried the new firmware and it appears to have fixed the tracking issue with the C4 NGen.
I am not sensitive to smoothing so i can't comment on that.
For some reason vertical tracking felt a little bit different than usual (don't know if i am delusional though).

So
That leaves us with the either get a 21gm more and a better sensor or just go with a good sensor


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *treav0r*
> 
> w
> what FPS do you play?


Nothing really anymore, but primarily UT99/2k4/UT3 when I played a lot of FPSs.

Now when I actually play anything its mostly more casual stuff like TF2, BL, L4D2, etc. Mostly due to no time to practice lol.


----------



## ghostlacuna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Followed.
> How much does 1800 dpi with 13% in game sens equal in terms of cm/360?


i wrote down what every percent ingame equal to in the config file but i dont have that document here at work.

the default value of 0.03 equal 20% if i dont recall wrong

so 20% would give you 6.3331 cm for a 360 at 1800 dpi

can post the real value for 13% ingame at 1800 DPI later when i have access to the document at home


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostlacuna*
> 
> i wrote down what every percent ingame equal to in the config file but i dont have that document here at work.
> 
> the default value of 0.03 equal 20% if i dont recall wrong
> 
> so 20% would give you 6.3331 cm for a 360 at 1800 dpi
> 
> can post the real value for 13% ingame at 1800 DPI later when i have access to the document at home


ok, thanks


----------



## ghostlacuna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> ok, thanks


ok with 1800 DPI and 13% ingame and uniform soldier aiming

your config sense is 0.019500 which at 1800 DPI give you the following cm/360

360° rotation: 9.0472 cm

without uniform soldier aiming your ingame sense of 13%

would result in a config sense of 0.050125 and a cm/360 of

360° rotation: 9.0472 cm

So when i do 1 360 you made 3.3









don't think i would be able to handle that speed


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ghostlacuna*
> 
> ok with 1800 DPI and 13% ingame and uniform soldier aiming
> 
> your config sense is 0.019500 which at 1800 DPI give you the following cm/360
> 
> 360° rotation: 9.0472 cm
> 
> without uniform soldier aiming your ingame sense of 13%
> 
> would result in a config sense of 0.050125 and a cm/360 of
> 
> 360° rotation: 9.0472 cm
> 
> So when i do 1 360 you made 3.3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> don't think i would be able to handle that speed


lol


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> lol


9cm isn't too far from my 7.5







.

I agree that 2.5-3cm is insane and highly unlikely to be consistent enough to use effectively though. I still feel that the "15" ceiling being the limit is way too low. A lot of people use below 15 cm/360...don't forget that these huge mousepads and super low cm/360 settings are all a relatively new phenomenon. I can see a "peek-a-boo" hitscan weapon user who only fights face to face in long corridors loving that low sens...but in any small/medium map or fast paced game they will get slaughtered. I can't imagine trying to spin around and skeet shoot a hunter jumping at your back in L4D2 with 60cm/360!!!


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> 9cm isn't too far from my 7.5
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> I agree that 2.5-3cm is insane and highly unlikely to be consistent enough to use effectively though. I still feel that the "15" ceiling being the limit is way too low. A lot of people use below 15 cm/360...don't forget that these huge mousepads and super low cm/360 settings are all a relatively new phenomenon. I can see a "peek-a-boo" hitscan weapon user who only fights face to face in long corridors loving that low sens...but in any small/medium map or fast paced game they will get slaughtered. I can't imagine trying to spin around and skeet shoot a hunter jumping at your back in L4D2 with 60cm/360!!!


It might be even less as i am not sure if i use 13% or 11% or 9% or 7%









But i have stopped gaming for around a year so i think i can adjust to a new sens.
The thing is i will set the sensitivity so that i can preciously and easily aim at a pixel without scoping in the fastest way possible.

I don't know if this means anything but i personally have around 25% H/K ratio with AEK in BF4


----------



## jayfkay

60cm/360 = the low sense "extreme"
25-40cm/360 = according to statistics about 70% of pro players and like 30-36cm is the average size of a medium mousepad.

15cm/360 being the lowest "good" value is mathematically plausible.
that would be 24 degrees per centimeter or 2 degrees per milimeter whereas 1mm is probably the lowest u can accurately adjust your mouse to aim angles, realistically speaking. ofc you dont have to exclusively aim with your mouse, you will also use WASD and aim angles etc. so lower IS possible.

HOWEVER

the other reason the 15cm exist I believe is because there is not a single known "pro" fps player with a sens that low or even lower. at least not to me.
most collected statistics of quake, tf2 or cs pros are in the 800-2000 (DPI*sensitivity) range, meaning most pros use something between like 20 and 52cm/360.
realistically speaking its very hard to track a target with a sens lower than that, however its still possible to be precise, just not accurate.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> most collected statistics of *quake, tf2 or cs* pros are in the 800-2000 (DPI*sensitivity) range, meaning most pros use something between like 20 and 52cm/360.
> realistically speaking its very hard to track a target with a sens lower than that, however its still possible to be precise, just not accurate.


I don't think that those are pro exclusive.
So please stop trying to force what is best for those games on the rest of us.
I play BF4 and in that game generally there is no such a thing as expected spots for the enemy (at least not the same way).
You can be shot down by a helicopter or a jet or a sniper somewhere you can't even see.
The gameplay is not expected to be the same like those games and may (or may not) differ from the sensitivity standards for those games.


----------



## jayfkay

Battlefield would also go into that category and I am just using statistics to explain why such an insanely high sens is neither too popular nor very effective, honestly.
can you keep your crosshair exactly on top of an enemy in battlefield? I doubt it.

noone says you need to be pro but it serves as a good guideline you know? I might as well say better than average players.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> Battlefield would also go into that category and I am just using statistics to explain why such an insanely high sens is neither too popular nor very effective, honestly.
> can you keep your crosshair exactly on top of an enemy in battlefield? I doubt it


Battlefield is open while those games don't seem to be open.
Now regarding your question, i don't know can you please explain more what you mean?


----------



## jayfkay

quite literally, can you lock your crosshair onto a moving/strafing target untill he dies, or do you frequently aim left and right of him when he moves sideways quickly? this is something that gets worse with higher sens I reckon, while precision aka flickshots are still possible, its harder to actually stay on the target.
nonetheless anything is okay with enough practice and there is plenty of factors to consider here. game, playstyle, different situations, physical situation (table space, mousepad, motor skills







).

point is, many average players could probably become better by increasing their accuracy which they could increase by lowering their sens.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> quite literally, can you lock your crosshair onto a moving/strafing target untill he dies, or do you frequently aim left and right of him when he moves sideways quickly? this is something that gets worse with higher sens I reckon, while precision aka flickshots are still possible, its harder to actually stay on the target.
> nonetheless anything is okay with enough practice and there is plenty of factors to consider here. game, playstyle, different situations, physical situation (table space, mousepad, motor skills
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ).
> 
> point is, many average players could probably become better by increasing their accuracy which they could increase by lowering their sens.


I get your question now









iirc then yes i was able to do that.
But it depends on how far away he is.
Also in BF4 the mentioned sens is hip fire sens not ads sens
and for precision you use ads which has even less sens.
That is considered one of the reasons why BF4 may differ from other games.

I kind of have a similar level of aim like this guy (some times better and some times worse)
Don't know how does this rank me though.


----------



## jayfkay

pretty sick. bf is the kind of game where high sens can work wonders i guess. cs to a lesser extend imo. you cant use WASD to adjust aim in cs.


----------



## metal571

Well, pub battlefield is probably better on a high sensitivity. If you're playing scrims in domination 5v5s, then low sensitivity actually can be a large benefit.


----------



## jayfkay

i thought so too untill i saw rela, that french kid is insane and hes like 15cm/360.


----------



## metal571

Yeah he just has good muscle memory. Pretty impressive kid but it looks like he's playing a lot of shorter range so it is most effective there.

When you're me trying to shoot across Guilin with the AUG it's pretty hard to control that recoil exactly with that kind of sens IMO.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> pretty sick. bf is the kind of game where high sens can work wonders i guess. cs to a lesser extend imo. you cant use WASD to adjust aim in cs.


iirc sens of the scope does have an effect which is less than the normal sens.
unlike cs go where pros can kill without the need to scope/ads in bf no one does this because of the gun's accuracy limitations.
Which eventually mean that bfers use less sens when needed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *metal571*
> 
> Well, pub battlefield is probably better on a high sensitivity. If you're playing scrims in domination 5v5s, then low sensitivity actually can be a large benefit.


With all due respect.
5v5 isn't considered true bf. It's more like playing a CS style gamplay in bf
True bf should be at least 16vs16 with all the schiit going on cause you know IT'S a BATTLEFIELD (not a little team vs a little team)








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> i thought so too untill i saw rela, that french kid is insane and hes like 15cm/360.


Can you link me gameplay videos/youtube channel/twitch channel of him?


----------



## povohat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> don't forget that these huge mousepads and super low cm/360 settings are all a relatively new phenomenon


Danish QW player Columbo placed 4th at the 1999 TGI using just over 1m/360, reportedly swiping 3 times across his pad to do a 180. Quakeworld is pretty much the opposite of corner peek down a corridor gameplay, yet this guy made extreme low sens work well enough to upset some of the tourney favourites.


----------



## metal571

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> 5v5 isn't considered true bf. It's more like playing a CS style gamplay in bf
> True bf should be at least 16vs16 with all the schiit going on cause you know IT'S a BATTLEFIELD (not a little team vs a little team)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


Haha, yes I know. I play conquest large almost 100% of the time, and not always on infy maps. I have a recent addiction to Guilin but anyway yes, I know. Competitive + Battlefield really only go together so well...nothing like CS.


----------



## jayfkay

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Can you link me gameplay videos/youtube channel/twitch channel of him?


----------



## Puck

People put a ton of emphasis on cm/360, mouse pad, and mouse used when map knowledge, game type experience, and good old fashion intuition are worth more then any mouse or sens setting. A pro with a ball mouse on a bare desk with 10cm/360 will still own most normal players using the best gear around and 35cm/360 after a round or two to warm up.

Ive gotten TONs of kills from pure intuition doing things like blindly flick chucking a frag ball in below me after a jump pad or tossing a pack of nades off the wall behind be after a 90* turn in a corridor. You can't just lower your sens and aim that, you need hundreds of hours of gameplay and a mental knowledge of the maps and common routes players take.


----------



## jayfkay

of course. however there is situations where simple experience will not overcome requirement of raw technical skill, this is especially true in csgo.
frequently your aim on percievably high distances has to be on point, so your 10cm ballmouse setup wont help you no matter how much xp u got m8. ofc u preaim and WASD your crosshair, but there is always raw aimduels.
or lets talk quake live, gl getting sufficient LG accuracy with that.

like i said, average for csgo seems to be 800-2000, some are lower some are higher and this ofc varies in other games. its the average tho and averages tell us something.
in the end the person behind the monitor has to be comfortable with what he is using, but when a new player has goals to improve, these numbers serve as sufficient guideline.


----------



## jjpjimmy

Are there any fixes to this odd behavior that happens when I swipe my mouse quickly? In an FPS it will shoot my viewpoint straight up or down...


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*


This guy aims like an aimbot!


----------



## Falkentyne

Use default surface setting. Tuning is buggy with certain mouse pads.


----------



## sonskusa

he (rela) is about 22cm/360 last i checked. higher sens in fast ads shooters like bf4, ps2, and cod one can get away where accuracy isn't as important as precision (longer ttk, more emphasis on tracking/locking on). csgo you're better off with a lower sense as you want the accuracy to be reproduce able, so best aimers (see scream for example) sit around 40+cm/360. personally I switched from 20cm/360 to 40cm/360 recently and haven't seen my playstyle 'slow' as I kind of expected it would; only thing I don't like about the lower sense is when I flick aim/switch off multiple targets in bf4/ps2 I don't look as aimbotty as rela, you can get a few more frames where my crosshair is moving to the target







.

saw some talk about the weight of the g502 earlier thought i'd chime in with my modification. removed the mouse wheel, some screws, and the magnet and i'm sitting at a comfortable 98g. downside is i still reach for the mousewheel; i imagine this is similar to the 'phantom limb' phenomena.

down to 87g. prolly can drop another few but this is pretty comfortable.


----------



## KenjiS

-goes back 4 pages and its all arguements over sensitivity- Er.. let me try to maybe get it back on track for anyone perhaps looking for a new mouse

I own this mouse, I didn't buy it for the absurd sensitivity but because essentially, I've had about 5 Razer Mice in the last 6 years, and a Corsair mouse, All of them dropped dead, I came back to Logitech mainly because Logitech stuff tended to hold up a bit better it seemed..Also using a G602 on my Laptop so I wanted similar "feels" on both systems.

I got my Proteus Core not long after it was released, So I've owned it for a few months now and I gotta say I love it, the buttons are very, very nice and are precisely where they should be for my fingers. The scroll wheel works very well and has a nice feel to it. Also I gotta say the "surface calibration" thing seems to work very well for me on my Logitech G240 soft pad thing that I bought. Also worked really well on my Vespula.

I run 2400 dpi normally, 400 on the sensitivity switch, The sensitivity switch is a feature I loved on my old Corsair mouse and I'm happy to still have it, Really good for stuff like World of Tanks to fine tune your aim before firing, Or War Thunder for similar reasons. Really I have no complaints on the mouse, Not even on the price tag, I've spent more than this before on mice that didn't last very long.

Cant comment on longevity obviously as I've only had it a few months, but it certainly "feels" nicer for some reason...


----------



## DiaSin

Small gripe.. I've only had this 2-3 months.. and its now 20 bucks cheaper than I paid. >_>

It's 59.99 on newegg.


----------



## KenjiS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> Small gripe.. I've only had this 2-3 months.. and its now 20 bucks cheaper than I paid. >_>
> 
> It's 59.99 on newegg.


Thats not as bad as Best Buy bundling it with a $50 Steam Gift card...


----------



## trriL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KenjiS*
> 
> Thats not as bad as Best Buy bundling it with a $50 Steam Gift card...


I remember that, lol.


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jayfkay*
> 
> i thought so too untill i saw rela, that french kid is insane and hes like 15cm/360.


People who perform well at 15-20cm are the actual best skilled players imo, hence my quote from earlier. Slower is just too genre/lame corridor shooter specific:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> I feel around 15cm/360 is about the fastest someone can be accurate with. Anything faster gives no benefit to turn speed or anything anyway.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> People who perform well at 15-20cm are the actual best skilled players imo, hence my quote from earlier. Slower is just too genre/lame corridor shooter specific:


Thats is just like, your opinion, man.

I for one would love to see surgical equipment try out that statement


----------



## r0ach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> Thats is just like, your opinion, man.


Axaion, lord of the corridor shooter where turning is not required


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Axaion, lord of the corridor shooter where turning is not required


lol


----------



## pran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> People who perform well at 15-20cm are the actual best skilled players imo, hence my quote from earlier. Slower is just too genre/lame corridor shooter specific:


15cm is way too fast imo. Wouldn't the best sensitivity be the one where you can comfortably turn 180?


----------



## SLOWION

Been using a Logitech G502 for about a week now









Not perfect but a pretty good mouse


----------



## jayfkay

would be really good without the humongous amount of buttons imo


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Axaion, lord of the corridor shooter where turning is not required


I do 180's just fine in flick shots









I do suspect you for having some kind of muscle sickness along with brittle bones, since you need to high CPI, and ligh mice that anything else will give you permament damage









1v1 me in a corridor, ill bring heavy mice thats stuck on 400 dpi, ill wreck you.


----------



## SLOWION

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> 1v1 me in a corridor, ill bring heavy mice thats stuck on 400 dpi, ill wreck you.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> I do 180's just fine in flick shots
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do suspect you for having some kind of muscle sickness along with brittle bones, since you need to high CPI, and ligh mice that anything else will give you permament damage
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1v1 me in a corridor, ill bring heavy mice thats stuck on 400 dpi, ill wreck you.


Regardless of who is going to win
I definitely want to watch that


----------



## Axaion

We will have a foodstand with only candy floss available nearby, for those that gets the noms


----------



## ghostlacuna

Where do i buy tickets for the event


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Axaion, lord of the corridor shooter where turning is not required


WRONG!

We all know it's Revenge of the Swamp Clown Monsters! ™


----------



## Axaion

That wouldent make sense as im still using an IME 3.0


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0ach*
> 
> Axaion, lord of the corridor shooter where turning is not required


Turns are for n00bs, along with any movement along the vertical axis.

Stay on the ground you frog hopping noobies!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> 1v1 me in a corridor, ill bring heavy mice thats stuck on 400 dpi, ill wreck you.


LOL


----------



## SalmonTaco

LOL @ all the cyber tough guys in here arguing over a mouse.


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SalmonTaco*
> 
> LOL @ all the cyber tough guys in here arguing over a mouse.


You are now banned from the food cart, no candy floss for you, ever.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SalmonTaco*
> 
> LOL @ all the cyber tough guys in here arguing over a mouse.


This is a mouse related topic?
What do you want us to discuss in a topic discussing a mouse!


----------



## SalmonTaco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Axaion*
> 
> You are now banned from the food cart, no candy floss for you, ever.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> This is a mouse related topic?
> What do you want us to discuss in a topic discussing a mouse!


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SalmonTaco*


----------



## Axaion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SalmonTaco*


>he actually thinks im mad

only thing im upset about is being unable to find the gif i want.


----------



## Huzzaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonskusa*
> 
> he (rela) is about 22cm/360 last i checked. higher sens in fast ads shooters like bf4, ps2, and cod one can get away where accuracy isn't as important as precision (longer ttk, more emphasis on tracking/locking on). csgo you're better off with a lower sense as you want the accuracy to be reproduce able, so best aimers (see scream for example) sit around 40+cm/360. personally I switched from 20cm/360 to 40cm/360 recently and haven't seen my playstyle 'slow' as I kind of expected it would; only thing I don't like about the lower sense is when I flick aim/switch off multiple targets in bf4/ps2 I don't look as aimbotty as rela, you can get a few more frames where my crosshair is moving to the target
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> saw some talk about the weight of the g502 earlier thought i'd chime in with my modification. removed the mouse wheel, some screws, and the magnet and i'm sitting at a comfortable 98g. downside is i still reach for the mousewheel; i imagine this is similar to the 'phantom limb' phenomena.
> 
> down to 87g. prolly can drop another few but this is pretty comfortable.


Any guide on that mod?

The Scroll wheel is my only gripe as well.

I have a spare KPM laying around, dunno if possible but I'd gladly throw it's wheel in there without ruining the mouse if I could.


----------



## Quailane

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Huzzaa*
> 
> Any guide on that mod?
> 
> The Scroll wheel is my only gripe as well.
> 
> I have a spare KPM laying around, dunno if possible but I'd gladly throw it's wheel in there without ruining the mouse if I could.


If you take out the four screws on the bottom of the mouse and open it up, it is very simple and obvious to take out the scroll wheel and magnet. Not that I suggest doing either of those things.


----------



## sonskusa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Huzzaa*
> 
> Any guide on that mod?
> 
> The Scroll wheel is my only gripe as well.
> 
> I have a spare KPM laying around, dunno if possible but I'd gladly throw it's wheel in there without ruining the mouse if I could.


Mousewheel is straight forward to remove once you open the mouse up (which takes a bit of prying). More involved is removing the extra buttons on the left side of the mouse, as it requires removing enough screws to unmount the hard plastic cover (part that has the logitech "G" ) and further remove the white cone that funnels the blue light onto the G; which imo has no effect on the quality of the lighting of the G--a bit of useless plastic as far as i can tell.


----------



## Arxeal

About the surface tuning.
I have a "razer goliathus speed" cloth pad.
Should I use "g240 cloth pad preset" instead of the default one?
(I don't want to use it's zero delta function, but a preset profile is okay if better)


----------



## mitavreb

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arxeal*
> 
> About the surface tuning.
> I have a "razer goliathus speed" cloth pad.
> Should I use "g240 cloth pad preset" instead of the default one?
> (I don't want to use it's zero delta function, but a preset profile is okay if better)


Use the Default, it's the most reliable. If it feels great no need to change it, but it wouldn't hurt to try to surface tune the Goliathus Speed coz that might feel even better. Give both a week of testing.


----------



## thrgk

what bungee are people using with this mouse?


----------



## cokker

Got one of these a few days ago, love it but I agree with the sniper button thing being too far forward, I use it as a PTT key anyway.

That mouse wheel has me on the fence though, love the clunkiness of it but can become tiresome sometimes. Love freewheeling through reddit


----------



## Erick Silver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonskusa*
> 
> he (rela) is about 22cm/360 last i checked. higher sens in fast ads shooters like bf4, ps2, and cod one can get away where accuracy isn't as important as precision (longer ttk, more emphasis on tracking/locking on). csgo you're better off with a lower sense as you want the accuracy to be reproduce able, so best aimers (see scream for example) sit around 40+cm/360. personally I switched from 20cm/360 to 40cm/360 recently and haven't seen my playstyle 'slow' as I kind of expected it would; only thing I don't like about the lower sense is when I flick aim/switch off multiple targets in bf4/ps2 I don't look as aimbotty as rela, you can get a few more frames where my crosshair is moving to the target
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> saw some talk about the weight of the g502 earlier thought i'd chime in with my modification. removed the mouse wheel, some screws, and the magnet and i'm sitting at a comfortable 98g. downside is i still reach for the mousewheel; i imagine this is similar to the 'phantom limb' phenomena.
> 
> down to 87g. prolly can drop another few but this is pretty comfortable.


@sonskusa
Maybe you can tell me what I need to know then since you have disassembled the mouse.

Is it a Blue LED inside the mouse or just a blue colored film to make the Logo that color? And if it is a Blue LED what the size and power of said LED if you had to guess?

Also, is the a Club here on the forums for this mouse yet? I have googled it and not found one yet.


----------



## AndySuttonUK

HI all,

Just got this mouse today and was looking for advice on setting up the profiles for various games.

Is it best to just go into the game and assign buttons that way or to setup in the gaming software?

I'm finding it very confusing etc


----------



## ChrisPh

i


----------



## ChrisPh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AndySuttonUK*
> 
> HI all,
> 
> Just got this mouse today and was looking for advice on setting up the profiles for various games.
> 
> Is it best to just go into the game and assign buttons that way or to setup in the gaming software?
> 
> I'm finding it very confusing etc


in LGS 1st page you can choose either the on board memory or the automatic game detection where if u go to second page there u can configure as many profiles as u want if thats what u mean


----------



## AndySuttonUK

Cheers matey!!


----------



## sonskusa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erick Silver*
> 
> @sonskusa
> Maybe you can tell me what I need to know then since you have disassembled the mouse.
> 
> Is it a Blue LED inside the mouse or just a blue colored film to make the Logo that color? And if it is a Blue LED what the size and power of said LED if you had to guess?
> 
> Also, is the a Club here on the forums for this mouse yet? I have googled it and not found one yet.


it's a surface mount LED, probably size 1206. not sure about power, but it's slightly less bright than a phone flash LED like you'd find in an ihpone


----------



## Erick Silver

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sonskusa*
> 
> it's a surface mount LED, probably size 1206. not sure about power, but it's slightly less bright than a phone flash LED like you'd find in an ihpone


I am assuming that the LED is soldered in. Not wired in. This gives me mod issues. I wanted to switch out the blue color to red.


----------



## sonskusa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erick Silver*
> 
> I am assuming that the LED is soldered in. Not wired in. This gives me mod issues. I wanted to switch out the blue color to red.


yup it's surface mount not through-hole so you'll have to de-solder to take it off. in it's place you could put a smd red led or just solder the leads of your led onto the pads on the pcb. assuming similar forward biases for the diodes.


----------



## x7007

the G502 had a smooth thing that had the glue under it which stick to the mouse feet, and over it was the actual Teflon mouse feet.

Someone told me that to put the mouse feet and to peel the thing that was glued. now I figured what is the problem with my mouse feet. If I use the HotLine 0.6mm which is the the biggest mm there is, even more than original 0.5mm, I see that the area where's the nail is there is a socket that goes down if you press it. this is the area which doesn't make contact with the mouse feet and makes an inconsistently mouse movement.

here is a picture I will upload after I post.



So I wonder why did I listen to him when he told me to pull the sticker that was glued, but now I need to put some base before the mouse feet cause it just goes into the socket and I can't control the mouse.

So I thought I'll put a 0.28mm and then the 0.6mm above it.

Can you post your mouse with a new mouse feet ? how did you replace it with screenshots ? or how does it look under the mouse feet ?

This is what caused me so much issues after I replaced the mouse feet, I was going insane, and I scratched my aluminum pad cause it just didn't have the friction on the mouse pad.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> This is what caused me so much issues after I replaced the mouse feet, I was going insane, and I scratched my aluminum pad cause it just didn't have the friction on the mouse pad.


NEVER, EVER, EVER use plain plastic feet on any metal surfaces including Aluminum. I've got a few aluminum plates and have had to swap out the original teflon feet with soft fibrous ones.

Having fabric-like pads applied upon the bottom of your input device will guarantee to NEVER scratch your metal surfaces. I thought every mouse enthusiast knew this vital fact before but it looks like the noobs had to find out the hard way indeed.

When you want to use any mouse on an Aluminum Mouse Pad ALWAYS replace the feet with soft fabric based pads.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> NEVER, EVER, EVER use plain plastic feet on any metal surfaces including Aluminum. I've got a few aluminum plates and have had to swap out the original teflon feet with soft fibrous ones.
> 
> Having fabric-like pads applied upon the bottom of your input device will guarantee to NEVER scratch your metal surfaces. I thought every mouse enthusiast knew this vital fact before but it looks like the noobs had to find out the hard way indeed.
> 
> When you want to use any mouse on an Aluminum Mouse Pad ALWAYS replace the feet with soft fabric based pads.


I didn't understand,, what do I need to buy or change ?


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> I didn't understand,, what do I need to buy or change ?


You can leave the current mouse feet alone on your G502.

Replace the original feet with any of these;

http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/stick-on-velcro

There are so many sizes, you pick which ones you want plus the colour you like. Remember to only use the *fabric side* one when sticking onto the bottom of your mouse.

You can easily trim off any excess if desired.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> You can leave the current mouse feet alone on your G502.
> 
> Replace the original feet with any of these;
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/stick-on-velcro
> 
> There are so many sizes, you pick which ones you want plus the colour you like. Remember to only use the *fabric side* one when sticking onto the bottom of your mouse.
> 
> You can easily trim off any excess if desired.


I still don't see how this will make my mouse glide smooth, can you show pictures of yours ? I don't use the original mouse feet anymore. I'm confused. I replaced all with HotLine Competition 0.6mm


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> I still don't see how this will make my mouse glide smooth, can you show pictures of yours ?


It's more to do with NOT scratching your Aluminum Mouse Pad anymore







..


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> It's more to do with NOT scratching your Aluminum Mouse Pad anymore
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ..


That I understand, can you show me how it looks and what you bought exactly.


----------



## d3vour3r

just bought one of these, cant wait to get home from work to try it out!


----------



## x7007

Why no one does a guide on how to change mouse feet ?

Now I understand the issue.

For everyone who changed the mouse feet for the G502 knows already the actual feet is 0.28mm, means it's very thin. when you pull it you will see like a big chunk of another mouse feet but it's not a mouse feet, it's like a layer that the mouse feet sit on. so my mouse feet started to wore down and get scratched cause of aluminum pad, I wanted to changed the mouse feet. Someone in this thread told me to pull this layer cause it's not needed and it's just bad glue. My issue was I only put a new 0.6mm like the OEM original layer that came with the mouse, but I didn't put the extra 0.28mm above it that was like before.

Now after I added the 0.28mm the mouse is smooth more than the original. This mistake cost me a lot cause I had pains in the hand the thing you call it when you don't play properly, but it was because of the mouse. and the mouse pad just ruined because of the touch the mouse plastic instead of the mouse feet cause it was too thin.

I'm not sure if the 0.28mm is smoother , but if it doesn't, it mean that 0.6mm is not enough if you pull all the layers from the G502 and put on a clean mouse feet slot.

The N4Gen mouse feet are sooooooo smooth, they are the best I've seen.


----------



## CTV

Hey guys

I haven't been active on OCN for a while now. How you all doing?

I am in the market for a new mouse. I had a Steelseries Diablo 3 mouse my wife (fiancé or girlfriend at the time) bought me for one Xmas, but unfortunately the axil of the scroll wheel broke rendering the scroll wheel and the button useless. Thankfully I still have a very old Logitech G5 SE (limited edition) which was one of the very first G5's which I am using at the moment.

I am eyeing the G502 Proteus Core for some time now and have read good things about the sensor, especially as it is apparently free of acceleration which I dread as it makes me suck ass at FPS titles. Believe it or not, but my preferred DPI settings range between 800 to 1200 depending on the mouse I use. I can't play using micro-sized movements, but hey, each to their own right? BTW, does this make me a high sens or low sens type?

Back to the reason for my post. Apart from some people complaining about the stock weight of this mouse, the occasional free scroll forward/back roll issue and problematic mouse feet catching on things or coming off/loose, apparently only affecting first batch(es) which is now supposedly addressed, are the any other issues and/or concerns I should know about? Any other opinions are welcome.

Many thanks.

CTV


----------



## hza

I had G502 for about 2 months. Great mouse. It had none of the issues mentioned. I just sold it because I finally wanted something wireless. Otherwise I liked it for everything it was, just not wireless. However, I found the G402's shape slightly more comfortable, but as I said. You should go to a computer shop and try them out a little bit, if that's possible. In case you would try something smaller shaped, try out Roccat KPM.


----------



## Huzzaa

CTV,

I believe that most if not all the issues have been eliminated.

The mouse-wheel still rattles ofcourse but that is probably because it's a 4D mechanical switch and probably can't be changed. It's just something to get used to.

The earlier batches had the issue of feet peeling off as well I think. Thankfully that issue has eluded me entirely and I bought it when it was relatively new to the scene.

It's in every way a very good mouse, albeit a bit heavy at first but once you get used to it it's fine.

I've been playing with it for 4 months now IIRC, using the Sphex underneath.
I'm not expecting much issues within the near future, yet I do keep in mind that the pad I use grinds feet a bit more so I may have to change them soon but that's just my preference as I don't enjoy cloth pads.

P.S. Forgot, the software has a bit of a problem with surface tuning, rarely but it's there. I've managed to replicate it once and after that switched to the default. Personally I don't reccomend playing with the setting, leaving it at default works best.


----------



## LocutusH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> I had G502 for about 2 months. Great mouse. It had none of the issues mentioned. I just sold it because I finally wanted something wireless. Otherwise I liked it for everything it was, just not wireless. However, I found the G402's shape slightly more comfortable, but as I said. You should go to a computer shop and try them out a little bit, if that's possible. In case you would try something smaller shaped, try out Roccat KPM.


And what wireless mouse comes even near the performance and reponse time, reliability of a wired gamer mouse?


----------



## hza

G602 for me. I like it for every game I play. (LoL, D3, GO)


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> G602 for me. I like it for every game I play. (LoL, D3, GO)


Isn't the g602 heavier because of battery weight and lesser sensor than g502 ?


----------



## hza

Don't know the exact weight. I use it with 1 battery. And lesser sensor... I had so many mice over the years, I can adapt to almost "everything". And btw, just because it's not the best sensor it doesn't mean it isn't good and whatnot.


----------



## thrgk

Why would you need a battery? I'm not sure I put one in mine unless it came with it installed. I did install 1 of the wright's tho


----------



## hza

I put in one battery because G602 is a wireless mouse. You're talking about G502. G502 has no batteries and isn't wireless.


----------



## Mackem

Looking at this mouse coming from a Deathadder 2013 that has developed the double click issue once again. How is it in comparison (Sensor, comfort/ergonomics, button placement etc.)


----------



## Mackem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mackem*
> 
> Looking at this mouse coming from a Deathadder 2013 that has developed the double click issue once again. How is it in comparison (Sensor, comfort/ergonomics, button placement etc.)


EDIT: Screw it, ordered and will try it out. I'll report back with my experiences.


----------



## Huzzaa

It's heavier and the grip style is something to get used to as well.

Bear that in mind that you won't be as good for a while coming from the DA.

But in every other way, completely superior in my subjective opinion.


----------



## connectwise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Huzzaa*
> 
> It's heavier and the grip style is something to get used to as well.
> 
> Bear that in mind that you won't be as good for a while coming from the DA.
> 
> But in every other way, completely superior in my subjective opinion.


----------



## Mackem

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Huzzaa*
> 
> It's heavier and the grip style is something to get used to as well.
> 
> Bear that in mind that you won't be as good for a while coming from the DA.
> 
> But in every other way, completely superior in my subjective opinion.


I see. I did use a G500 way back when for a while and didn't really have any issues with the weight. I kind of use a hybrid palm/claw grip when using my mouse.


----------



## milehigh

Tried out this mouse, but I didn't really like the button my the thumb rest. Also, the scroll wheel was very loud and clunky. Otherwise, it was a pretty nice mouse.


----------



## espn

Does G502 really give similar grip feeling as MX518/G400/G400s? Logitech claims that it is the
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *milehigh*
> 
> Tried out this mouse, but I didn't really like the button my the thumb rest. Also, the scroll wheel was very loud and clunky. Otherwise, it was a pretty nice mouse.


The thumb rest button is not a good idea, since a lot of us just want to really "rest" on it instead of having a button there. I would always prevent a mouse like that.


----------



## hza

Good that there are a lof other lot of us.


----------



## milehigh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Does G502 really give similar grip feeling as MX518/G400/G400s? Logitech claims that it is the
> The thumb rest button is not a good idea, since a lot of us just want to really "rest" on it instead of having a button there. I would always prevent a mouse like that.


Agree. It felt like I was always on the verge of pressing it. My mouse without a thumb button is much better. I guess it could come in handy for those who use it, but it's not for me.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *milehigh*
> 
> Agree. It felt like I was always on the verge of pressing it. My mouse without a thumb button is much better. I guess it could come in handy for those who use it, but it's not for me.


This is a big problem for people with long thumb or big hand. For average/smaller hand of man/woman thumb then suppose not touching the button and can rest.


----------



## LancerVI

I should probably start a thread, but I figured I'd ask it here anyway.

I have the G502 and I have the strangest problem that I can't pin down. On my new 5820k build with Win 8.1, both new things for me (coming from 4770k and Win 7) Everytime I play a video taken from Fraps, or AMD game DVR or MSI Afterburner or whatever, it records fine, but when I play it, my mouse cursor hitches for a few moments and then stops working all together. The strange thing about it is that I connected another mouse to test and it works fine, it's only the Proteus G502 that does this. With both mice connected, the G502 craps out and the other mouse and all other usb devices for that matter, continue to work no problem. If I unplug the G502 and plug it back it back in, it starts working again. I then start to play the video again and it craps out again. JUST the G502 does this.

I should also add that when it stops working the lights on the mouse still function and they 'breath' as they were set to do. Also, this occurs whether the G software is loaded or not.

I've searched everywhere, updated the logitech software, etc. I'm at a complete loss. I have NO idea what's going on. Playing videos locally, for whatever reason kill my G502. This didn't occur with my 4770k and Win 7 where I used the G502 as well.

Anybody ever hear of this? It's driving me crazy!


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> I should probably start a thread, but I figured I'd ask it here anyway.
> 
> I have the G502 and I have the strangest problem that I can't pin down. On my new 5820k build with Win 8.1, both new things for me (coming from 4770k and Win 7) Everytime I play a video taken from Fraps, or AMD game DVR or MSI Afterburner or whatever, it records fine, but when I play it, my mouse cursor hitches for a few moments and then stops working all together. The strange thing about it is that I connected another mouse to test and it works fine, it's only the Proteus G502 that does this. With both mice connected, the G502 craps out and the other mouse and all other usb devices for that matter, continue to work no problem. If I unplug the G502 and plug it back it back in, it starts working again. I then start to play the video again and it craps out again. JUST the G502 does this.
> 
> I should also add that when it stops working the lights on the mouse still function and they 'breath' as they were set to do. Also, this occurs whether the G software is loaded or not.
> 
> I've searched everywhere, updated the logitech software, etc. I'm at a complete loss. I have NO idea what's going on. Playing videos locally, for whatever reason kill my G502. This didn't occur with my 4770k and Win 7 where I used the G502 as well.
> 
> Anybody ever hear of this? It's driving me crazy!


I am guessing this happens while the software is installed.
Try to uninstall the software and see what happens.


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I am guessing this happens while the software is installed.
> Try to uninstall the software and see what happens.


Yeah, I tried that and 'no joy.' Problem persists.

I should mention it does this regardless of what USB port I'm plugged into as well.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> Yeah, I tried that and 'no joy.' Problem persists.
> 
> I should mention it does this regardless of what USB port I'm plugged into as well.


hmm..
I don't know what could be the reason for it.


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> hmm..
> I don't know what could be the reason for it.


Yeah, it's really weird. I just swapped out mice. A cheap old dell mouse and it works. The cursor occasionally hitches a little when video is being played though, so maybe there is some underlying problem, but it continues to work and doesn't die on me like the G502. I've tried several mice I've got lying around, only the G502 dies within 10 seconds of the video being played. It's absolutely frustrating me.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> Yeah, it's really weird. I just swapped out mice. A cheap old dell mouse and it works. The cursor occasionally hitches a little when video is being played though, so maybe there is some underlying problem, but it continues to work and doesn't die on me like the G502. I've tried several mice I've got lying around, only the G502 dies within 10 seconds of the video being played. It's absolutely frustrating me.


@CPate


----------



## LancerVI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> I should probably start a thread, but I figured I'd ask it here anyway.
> 
> I have the G502 and I have the strangest problem that I can't pin down. On my new 5820k build with Win 8.1, both new things for me (coming from 4770k and Win 7) Everytime I play a video taken from Fraps, or AMD game DVR or MSI Afterburner or whatever, it records fine, but when I play it, my mouse cursor hitches for a few moments and then stops working all together. The strange thing about it is that I connected another mouse to test and it works fine, it's only the Proteus G502 that does this. With both mice connected, the G502 craps out and the other mouse and all other usb devices for that matter, continue to work no problem. If I unplug the G502 and plug it back it back in, it starts working again. I then start to play the video again and it craps out again. JUST the G502 does this.
> 
> I should also add that when it stops working the lights on the mouse still function and they 'breath' as they were set to do. Also, this occurs whether the G software is loaded or not.
> 
> I've searched everywhere, updated the logitech software, etc. I'm at a complete loss. I have NO idea what's going on. Playing videos locally, for whatever reason kill my G502. This didn't occur with my 4770k and Win 7 where I used the G502 as well.
> 
> Anybody ever hear of this? It's driving me crazy!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> hmm..
> I don't know what could be the reason for it.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> Yeah, it's really weird. I just swapped out mice. A cheap old dell mouse and it works. The cursor occasionally hitches a little when video is being played though, so maybe there is some underlying problem, but it continues to work and doesn't die on me like the G502. I've tried several mice I've got lying around, only the G502 dies within 10 seconds of the video being played. It's absolutely frustrating me.


I think I just figured it out with Logitech support forum. If I lower the report rate in the G software from 1000 to 150 it works. It still 'hitches' every 5 to 10 seconds or so, but it doesn't 'die' on me like it did before. Apparently, MS Windows 8.1 changed the mouse subsystem and people have reported weirdness with high report rate mice to a point MS released a hotfix via Windows Update. That fix DID NOT work for me. Only lowering the report rate in Logitech's gaming software did. So if anyone stumbles across this problem; yes it's real. No, you're not crazy. If you have this problem, try lowering the report rate.


----------



## Creo

Coming from a G9x I can't get used to it. I've gone back to the g9x.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Creo*
> 
> Coming from a G9x I can't get used to it. I've gone back to the g9x.


Good choice, because Logitech saw fit to throw away that design for no good reason other than to spruik their current Star Wars inspired junk, suitable for 10 year olds







.


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Why no one does a guide on how to change mouse feet ?
> 
> Now I understand the issue.
> 
> For everyone who changed the mouse feet for the G502 knows already the actual feet is 0.28mm, means it's very thin. when you pull it you will see like a big chunk of another mouse feet but it's not a mouse feet, it's like a layer that the mouse feet sit on. so my mouse feet started to wore down and get scratched cause of aluminum pad, I wanted to changed the mouse feet. Someone in this thread told me to pull this layer cause it's not needed and it's just bad glue. My issue was I only put a new 0.6mm like the OEM original layer that came with the mouse, but I didn't put the extra 0.28mm above it that was like before.
> 
> Now after I added the 0.28mm the mouse is smooth more than the original. This mistake cost me a lot cause I had pains in the hand the thing you call it when you don't play properly, but it was because of the mouse. and the mouse pad just ruined because of the touch the mouse plastic instead of the mouse feet cause it was too thin.
> 
> I'm not sure if the 0.28mm is smoother , but if it doesn't, it mean that 0.6mm is not enough if you pull all the layers from the G502 and put on a clean mouse feet slot.
> 
> The N4Gen mouse feet are sooooooo smooth, they are the best I've seen.


I heard the original size of them is .5mm, think I'll be okay using the .6mm ones over the second layer?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> I heard the original size of them is .5mm, think I'll be okay using the .6mm ones over the second layer?


Wait, you mean the original comes with some sticky layer and over it comes a 0.28mm. now if you pull the 0.28 that is the actual mouse feet that touch the surface then you need to use 0.28mm.

If you pull everything from the mouse then use only 0.6 layer of mouse feet , and don't push/force it too hard or it will sink down.


----------



## Mackem

Update, have been using this for about 2 weeks now. I much much much prefer it to the Deathadder 2013 I had previously.


----------



## FreeElectron

Does the G502 make a little bit of a rattling noise when hitting the mouse pad?

The noise seems to be caused by the mouse wheel and the lmb and the rmb.
If i hold down the LMB, RMB and the middle click (Wheel Click) this noise and hit it slightly to the mouse pad the noise seems to be gone.

Does anyone else have this issue?
Thank you.


----------



## eXteR

Just recieved today this mouse feet.

http://www.ebay.es/itm/Black-Hotline-Games-Logitech-Competition-G502-Gaming-Mouse-Feet-Skates-0-6mm-/191481833246?

I'll test this afternoon, hope is the right size to remove all original feet and glued part.


----------



## madwolfa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> The noise seems to be caused by the mouse wheel and the lmb and the rmb.


Rattling wheel has made me switch to G402.


----------



## Pouie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Does the G502 make a little bit of a rattling noise when hitting the mouse pad?
> 
> The noise seems to be caused by the mouse wheel and the lmb and the rmb.
> If i hold down the LMB, RMB and the middle click (Wheel Click) this noise and hit it slightly to the mouse pad the noise seems to be gone.
> 
> Does anyone else have this issue?
> Thank you.


Yup! The rattling is really pathetic on an $80 MSRP mouse. That and the clunky scroll wheel and the too-far-back/too-plasticky side buttons made me look elsewhere. I went to the G400S which is just like the MX518 that I used for 10 years. I also got the Roccat Kone Pure Military which has the newer 3310 sensor but so far seems slower than my G400S.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madwolfa*
> 
> Rattling wheel has made me switch to G402.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pouie*
> 
> Yup! The rattling is really pathetic on an $80 MSRP mouse. That and the clunky scroll wheel and the too-far-back/too-plasticky side buttons made me look elsewhere. I went to the G400S which is just like the MX518 that I used for 10 years. I also got the Roccat Kone Pure Military which has the newer 3310 sensor but so far seems slower than my G400S.


I got both the Roccat kone pure military and the G502

The rattling can only be heard when placing the mouse on the mouse pad.
It is caused by the LMB and RMB and Scroll click.

And i kind of got used to it so it's no biggy.
But thanks for the feedback.


----------



## madwolfa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> The rattling can only be heard when placing the mouse on the mouse pad.


I had a very annoying creaking noise when I scrolled the wheel slowly. Someone told it was coming from gears.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *madwolfa*
> 
> I had a very annoying creaking noise when I scrolled the wheel slowly. Someone told it was coming from gears.


yup, there is that too.


----------



## Furiosus

After cutting the metal off the scroll wheel and trimming other parts of excess plastic I've got my G502 down to 93 grams.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furiosus*
> 
> After cutting the metal off the scroll wheel and trimming other parts of excess plastic I've got my G502 down to 93 grams.


oh
Do you have photos/video?


----------



## MasterBash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furiosus*
> 
> After cutting the metal off the scroll wheel and trimming other parts of excess plastic I've got my G502 down to 93 grams.


I did the same, but I do not have a scale so I dont know how much it weighs. I kept like 1mm of metal around the mousewheel, though.


----------



## Dreyka

Spoiler: Quote: Furiosus



Originally Posted by *Furiosus* 


> After cutting the metal off the scroll wheel and trimming other parts of excess plastic I've got my G502 down to 93 grams.






Some photos would be cool.


----------



## WindInSummer

My recent mouse history is as follows:

IME 3.0
Rival
Kana V2
G100S
(MX518)

And just talking ergonomics for consistency I'd say the Kana V2, and Rival were the best fit.

The worst: the MX518 which I revisited.

I am saying this, because the lip on this G502 makes that shape, which was the worst out of these mice, work! And there may be other differences of course.

The lip will allow you to loosen the grip, and I would also say that when holding the thumb on the sniper button (which I dont mind) the very nice materials aid grip in a way that was not the case on the MX518 at the very least.

I may be mistaken but I think a big thing with this lip is that it allows this loose grip outside of games which alleviates the hand in a way that would not be the case without it, as with the MX518.
My issue with the MX518 is that it causes hand strain and just forces an awkward grip.

The thumb will also roll over to the lip halfway, from the sniper button. Which is also a dynamic in this. And the lip would not be there on the MX518 and other iterations that followed it to allow this.

My opinion may change as I just got the mouse and have played 2-3 games of CS. But for anyone that has a palm type grip and just loathes the MX518 and later versions for these reasons (but may have used it when they were younger etc), it is worth a go.

The lip or skirt is not a gimmick.


----------



## MasterBash

Still having trouble with the back of the mouse. The feet drags there. With both tiger mouse feet and stocks. I think its just a bad design.


----------



## Furiosus

I'll get some photos of the mods I've made up. One problem I'm noticing with my mouse though, is that at any DPI there's a lot of X counts from my mouse that are considerably lower than the rest - I've highlighted these with the red line. There's also those showing up on the green line too, that are slightly higher than normal, but less of them. This happens anywhere between 12,000 dpi or 200 dpi.


----------



## Svarog

Tried both the G602 and G402, which are the same design and i returned them both. WAY too flat and thin compared to the G500s.

Looks like i'm gonna have to leave Logitech whenever my G500s dies, since they ditched the design.

R.I.P. MX518/G500


----------



## zantetheo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> For everyone who changed the mouse feet for the G502 knows already the actual feet is 0.28mm, means it's very thin. when you pull it you will see like a big chunk of another mouse feet but it's not a mouse feet, it's like a layer that the mouse feet sit on. so my mouse feet started to wore down and get scratched cause of aluminum pad, I wanted to changed the mouse feet. Someone in this thread told me to pull this layer cause it's not needed and it's just bad glue. My issue was I only put a new 0.6mm like the OEM original layer that came with the mouse, but I didn't put the extra 0.28mm above it that was like before.
> 
> Now after I added the 0.28mm the mouse is smooth more than the original. This mistake cost me a lot cause I had pains in the hand the thing you call it when you don't play properly, but it was because of the mouse. and the mouse pad just ruined because of the touch the mouse plastic instead of the mouse feet cause it was too thin.
> 
> I'm not sure if the 0.28mm is smoother , but if it doesn't, it mean that 0.6mm is not enough if you pull all the layers from the G502 and put on a clean mouse feet slot.


i got the Hotline Games Performance mouse feet (0.6mm) for my G502 do i need the 0.28mm to place them over the 0.6mm as the friend here suggested?

will i have problem placing only the 0.6mm alone?


----------



## Falkentyne

I don't know how this rumor started, but you can apply the 0.6mm mouse feet directly, after removing the old original feet (remove EVERYTHING including the glue layer!) and everything will be PERFECTLY fine.

This was tested by takasta and many others .
This works best on smooth mouse surfaces like the Puretrak Talent

If your mouse pad had a rough surface, or you are heavy handed and are worried about the "Right" side of the mouse touching the mouse pad (left side if you're looking at the underside of the mouse), then the easy fix is to put TWO layers of 0.6mm hotline games mouse feet on the mouse. I can only see this as an issue due to the right side of the mouse (left if underbelly view) having those ridged patterns on the side, causing excess friction (and possible pad damage) if you tilt the mouse to the side to the right, instead of leaving it fully level. Tilting it to the left is next to impossible due to the feet on the mouse weight door, but if you remove that door then it tilts easily that way, too. But having 2 stacks of 0.6mm feet solve any issues from a slight right tilt causing contact with the pad and the ridged right side underbelly, since now you have extra feet protection to give you more leeway. Plus it now glides even better, like people did with Deathadders and stacking two hyperglide stacks of feet instead of 1.

This will be 1.2mm of feet. The sensor is powerful and will STILL track perfectly like this. I was able to reach 5.22 m/s (more consistently) with 1.2mm of hotline games competition feet (double stacked, 0.6mm x 2) and factory default surface calibration, and 6.20 m/s with a normal single stack application of mouse feet (0.6mm x 1). This is moving my wrist as fast as humanly possible--I don't think very many people can exceed 6.11 m/s.

I did try again and did manage to get 6.20 m/s with the DOUBLE stacked 1.2mm feet (and almost broke my arm off), so it's possible that max PCS is lowered slightly by the higher clearance (and thus lower LOD)

But yeah, just order 2 sets (or 4) of hotline games competition feet. If you ever have problems with glide and the right mouse side touching the pad from a slight tilt, stick 2 stacks on and you're good to go. You'll be very close to the sensor limit for LOD, though, but that can only improve as the feet wear down a bit. Plus by stacking 2 feet, you won't have to worry about replacing and removing that 3m glue, for a VERY long time.


----------



## zantetheo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> I don't know how this rumor started, but you can apply the 0.6mm mouse feet directly, after removing the old original feet (remove EVERYTHING including the glue layer!) and everything will be PERFECTLY fine.
> 
> This was tested by takasta and many others .
> This works best on smooth mouse surfaces like the Puretrak Talent...


thank you for the answer

i will try it as soon i get back home with my G440 mousepad. (don't think im heavy handed)

maybe i will order the 0.28mm to place them over

+1 rep


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> I don't know how this rumor started, but you can apply the 0.6mm mouse feet directly, after removing the old original feet (remove EVERYTHING including the glue layer!) and everything will be PERFECTLY fine.
> 
> This was tested by takasta and many others .
> This works best on smooth mouse surfaces like the Puretrak Talent
> 
> If your mouse pad had a rough surface, or you are heavy handed and are worried about the "Right" side of the mouse touching the mouse pad (left side if you're looking at the underside of the mouse), then the easy fix is to put TWO layers of 0.6mm hotline games mouse feet on the mouse. I can only see this as an issue due to the right side of the mouse (left if underbelly view) having those ridged patterns on the side, causing excess friction (and possible pad damage) if you tilt the mouse to the side to the right, instead of leaving it fully level. Tilting it to the left is next to impossible due to the feet on the mouse weight door, but if you remove that door then it tilts easily that way, too. But having 2 stacks of 0.6mm feet solve any issues from a slight right tilt causing contact with the pad and the ridged right side underbelly, since now you have extra feet protection to give you more leeway. Plus it now glides even better, like people did with Deathadders and stacking two hyperglide stacks of feet instead of 1.
> 
> This will be 1.2mm of feet. The sensor is powerful and will STILL track perfectly like this. I was able to reach 5.22 m/s (more consistently) with 1.2mm of hotline games competition feet (double stacked, 0.6mm x 2) and factory default surface calibration, and 6.20 m/s with a normal single stack application of mouse feet (0.6mm x 1). This is moving my wrist as fast as humanly possible--I don't think very many people can exceed 6.11 m/s.
> 
> I did try again and did manage to get 6.20 m/s with the DOUBLE stacked 1.2mm feet (and almost broke my arm off), so it's possible that max PCS is lowered slightly by the higher clearance (and thus lower LOD)
> 
> But yeah, just order 2 sets (or 4) of hotline games competition feet. If you ever have problems with glide and the right mouse side touching the pad from a slight tilt, stick 2 stacks on and you're good to go. You'll be very close to the sensor limit for LOD, though, but that can only improve as the feet wear down a bit. Plus by stacking 2 feet, you won't have to worry about replacing and removing that 3m glue, for a VERY long time.


Can anyone other say how it goes with his G502 ? I want to know how it the tracking on hard pads and such and if there are any issues. It seems that I can't get the mouse feet to perfectly align and I have some friction from it.


----------



## majnu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zantetheo*
> 
> i got the Hotline Games Performance mouse feet (0.6mm) for my G502 do i need the 0.28mm to place them over the 0.6mm as the friend here suggested?
> 
> will i have problem placing only the 0.6mm alone?


I have those mouse feet, whilst the instructions are piss poor I just went with my initiative.

I removed the old mouse feet, including the glue layer so that I could see the screw holes underneath (where applicable). The reason I went that far was that the glue layer was an uneven surface, therefore applying feet ontop would have not been flat across all feet areas.

For the 2 weeks I've been using them I've not had a problem with the 0.6mm feet. They glide great across my hardened plastic mat and I've had no tracking problem having applied them direct.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Can anyone other say how it goes with his G502 ? I want to know how it the tracking on hard pads and such and if there are any issues. It seems that I can't get the mouse feet to perfectly align and I have some friction from it.


I have the puretrak talent and the 502.
What do you want to know?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I have the puretrak talent and the 502.
> What do you want to know?


Can you show me a pictures and explain how did you put and align the mouse feet ? and if everything is 100% smooth


----------



## MasterBash

yfa3m7pgr

30% off Logitech site on everything except g303 and g910, ends tonight. I dont know if it works outside of the canada logi site though, feel free to try.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Can you show me a pictures and explain how did you put and align the mouse feet ? and if everything is 100% smooth


I have the default feet.
Sorry, i missed the feet part in your post.


----------



## Falkentyne

I have three mouse pads btw
Puretrak Talent, Razer Goliathus speed (not as good as the old mantis), and the aluminum pad Razer Exactmat.(both sides). All track fine with the double stacked 1.2mm feet and factory default tuning.

About aligning the mouse feet:
I have THREE G502's (one was actually free from Logitech because I asked them for spare feet...they sent me a new mouse instead..what), and had already purchased a backup one from newegg before.

I had NO problem removing and replacing the feet. The HARD part was removing all that crappy goo residue. It probably would have been easy with goo-gone or something but I don't have any of that stuff.

Aligning the mouse feet is easy as pie.
VERY easy.
The trick is PATIENCE. Be patient and start with the corners and you'll have perfectly placed feet in no time.
If you're used to putting skates/hyperglides on Razer Deathadders, you may have trouble at first. Deathadder mouse feet sockets have a more defined indented groove for putting the mouse feet on. The G502 doesn't have this groove. Instead it has a cutout made with VERY slightly raised edges, which show a clear placement for the feet but with literally NO guide or depression for helping to place the feet. Because of that, it's very easy to put the feet over the slightly raised border edges if you aren't careful, while on Deathadders, due to the 'low elevation' valley cutout, you can just 'slide them into the "socket."

I -did- get very rare 'malfunctions' with the 1.2mm feet, when I tuned the surface to the Talent, that I did NOT get with one stack (0.6mm) feet when tuned for the Talent. Zero problems on factory default tuning. The LOD is lowered even more so if you use 2 stacks of feet (0.6mmx2) or apply 0.28mm feet on top of the original feet (this works well, too), just use factory default.


----------



## zantetheo

Just tried the Hotline Games Performance mouse feet (0.6mm) on my G502 and i can say are very very good!

They glide on the G440 beter than the old ones im very happy with them.









Maybe i will put the 0.28mm over them.

What do you people recommend: Competition or Performance?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zantetheo*
> 
> Just tried the Hotline Games Performance mouse feet (0.6mm) on my G502 and i can say are very very good!
> 
> They glide on the G440 beter than the old ones im very happy with them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe i will put the 0.28mm over them.
> 
> What do you people recommend: Competition or Performance?


Asking too

this was post on other thread here

http://www.overclock.net/t/1343540/tiger-gaming-mouse-feet-review-razer-oem-quality-vs-hotline-games-vs-razer/20#post_23701660

I might try the performance just incase. I am with tiger Thick 1mm now on Logitech 502


----------



## Puck

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LancerVI*
> 
> I should probably start a thread, but I figured I'd ask it here anyway.
> 
> I have the G502 and I have the strangest problem that I can't pin down. On my new 5820k build with Win 8.1, both new things for me (coming from 4770k and Win 7) Everytime I play a video taken from Fraps, or AMD game DVR or MSI Afterburner or whatever, it records fine, but when I play it, my mouse cursor hitches for a few moments and then stops working all together. The strange thing about it is that I connected another mouse to test and it works fine, it's only the Proteus G502 that does this. With both mice connected, the G502 craps out and the other mouse and all other usb devices for that matter, continue to work no problem. If I unplug the G502 and plug it back it back in, it starts working again. I then start to play the video again and it craps out again. JUST the G502 does this.
> 
> I should also add that when it stops working the lights on the mouse still function and they 'breath' as they were set to do. Also, this occurs whether the G software is loaded or not.
> 
> I've searched everywhere, updated the logitech software, etc. I'm at a complete loss. I have NO idea what's going on. Playing videos locally, for whatever reason kill my G502. This didn't occur with my 4770k and Win 7 where I used the G502 as well.
> 
> Anybody ever hear of this? It's driving me crazy!


It's a long shot, but did you try switching the settings from Software to Hardware profile memory? I use the on mouse Hardware memory and have never had an issue on three different computers, no need to install LGS or anything.


----------



## mikesn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furiosus*
> 
> After cutting the metal off the scroll wheel and trimming other parts of excess plastic I've got my G502 down to 93 grams.


I tried this mouse out but I absolutely can't handle the weight. Weighs in at ~127-128 grams and for lower sensitivity/DPI I just don't feel as in "control" as with a lighter mouse. Higher sensitivity/DPI would probably be fine.

I am legitimately curious - did you weigh the scroll wheel? I'm thinking a normal scroll wheel alone might reduce the weight of this mouse by like 5-10 grams.


----------



## banjogood

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mikesn*
> 
> I tried this mouse out but I absolutely can't handle the weight. Weighs in at ~127-128 grams and for lower sensitivity/DPI I just don't feel as in "control" as with a lighter mouse. Higher sensitivity/DPI would probably be fine.
> 
> I am legitimately curious - did you weigh the scroll wheel? I'm thinking a normal scroll wheel alone might reduce the weight of this mouse by like 5-10 grams.


If I'm not mistaken the scrollwheel alone is 16g.


----------



## jetpak12

I finally got a G502.



I'm really liking it so far, haven't tried any games yet though. I tried it out at a Best Buy before I bought, and I like the shape and size better than my old G500.

It also slides very smoothly compared to my old mice (which have been in use for years, so not a fair comparison). Is there a particular reason that people were replacing the mouse feet?

I also don't mind the weight, since I'm used to the G5/G500 and don't typically fast paced FPS games anyways. Happy so far.


----------



## jjpjimmy

I have two mouses connected to the PC I use regularly.

A weight modded Deathadder 3.5 ~90g and this G505 with no mods. It certainly does weigh more than my deathadder but I still prefer playing with the G505, initially I thought the weight would be a big problem but I got used to it after a while. Maybe a month of gaming with it. I'm playing only CS:GO and TF2 at MGE servers only and I fair well.

I have though made an indent into the rubber by trying to avoid the sniper button, my thumb's fingernail dug into the rubber... and the mouse4 is unbound because I have a tendency to accidentally click on it while lifting the mouse.


----------



## starise

Hi guys, i got this mouse, should arrive in 2 days.
Any mousepad suggestion for a middle-high senser? Hard? Cloth? Now i'm using a Razer Sphex.


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *starise*
> 
> Hi guys, i got this mouse, should arrive in 2 days.
> Any mousepad suggestion for a middle-high senser? Hard? Cloth? Now i'm using a Razer Sphex.


I'd recommend a hard pad if you're playing with higher sensitivities because the mouse is extremely heavy; it will take more effort to make small movements on cloth (playing with low sensitivity this doesn't matter as much). That being said cloth will work fine if you prefer the feel. I think the Sphex is a pretty good surface.


----------



## softskiller

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *starise*
> 
> Hi guys, i got this mouse, should arrive in 2 days.
> Any mousepad suggestion for a middle-high senser? Hard? Cloth? Now i'm using a Razer Sphex.


Avoid silky shining pads.

I have the two best selling pads from Amazon Germany and the No. 1, the Sharkoon 1337 seems to reflect too much, bad tracking even with surface calibration.

My third old pad is a Steelseries QcK and it has the best matt finish - but mine is that many years old that it starts to shine from constant rubbing and is more grey than black.


----------



## Halciet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *starise*
> 
> Hi guys, i got this mouse, should arrive in 2 days.
> Any mousepad suggestion for a middle-high senser? Hard? Cloth? Now i'm using a Razer Sphex.


I'm using a Func Surface 1030 XL (smooth side), and I'm really happy with it. I've used Func pads almost exclusively since 2003, and have never had any complaints with the performance/quality. Just make sure you use the calibration tool regardless of what you select.


----------



## FreeElectron

I'm using it with the Puretrak Talent.


----------



## zantetheo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *starise*
> 
> Hi guys, i got this mouse, should arrive in 2 days.
> Any mousepad suggestion for a middle-high senser? Hard? Cloth? Now i'm using a Razer Sphex.


I also used the razer Sphex with G502 until i got G440 mousepad a few months ago. I have to tell you that G440 is far better than the razer since. With G440 the G502 slides about 50% easier than Sphex (i have them both and testing them right now).


----------



## starise

[mod] sorry, double post.


----------



## starise

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Halciet*
> 
> I'm using a Func Surface 1030 XL (smooth side), and I'm really happy with it.


This looks nice, but in Italy it costs 65/68€, same amount of the mouse. Pretty bad.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zantetheo*
> 
> I also used the razer Sphex with G502 until i got G440 mousepad a few months ago. I have to tell you that G440 is far better than the razer since. With G440 the G502 slides about 50 easier than Sphex (i have them both and testing them right now).


Interesting, but some people say that has a very poor durability, did you notice?


----------



## zantetheo

I own it about 4 months and with regular use didnt notice any problem as for for the problem you mention.

_edit from my post above i meant 50% easier_


----------



## SalmonTaco

I just got a SteelSeries 4HD to replace my QcK Mini and it is a huge improvement.

Mah G502 glides liek buttah drippin of a hot biscuit now.


----------



## forthedisplay

QCK is slow, at least that's how I feel it. If you are using higher sensitivies, where the mouse weight isn't an issue (and could be a good thing), then having low friction is ideal.


----------



## x7007

How can I get the OEM spare feet ? It is impossible to get them anywhere, they don't deliver to Israel, they don't sell them in Israel, and Ebay sell them 25$ more than the Logitech Shop and they still don't deliver to Israel...


----------



## Falkentyne

Only way is to order from takasta.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G502-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition-/121402762810?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item1c442b263a

If it costs more, well, just man up and pay.
You can't have your cake and eat it too....

It's a lot easier to get stuff cheap if you live in USA or HK or Taiwan. Even Singapore has a Ducky keyboard division.
Just pay the cost for shipping.
Maybe buy a few extras and sell one to a friend to cover the cost....


----------



## x7007

Does anyone use the Logitech Gaming software ? I noticed different mouse movement with it installed but I can't be sure if it using different DPI than what I set. I'm using 1150 and 400 for sniper button.

Without the driver it is perfect for me, it stops where I exactly want and it move with precision. I want more heads up so I know it is something that repeats itself. using the newest 8.57.183, same happened with 8.57.177.


----------



## SharpShoot3r07

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jetpak12*
> 
> I finally got a G502.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really liking it so far, haven't tried any games yet though. I tried it out at a Best Buy before I bought, and I like the shape and size better than my old G500.
> 
> It also slides very smoothly compared to my old mice (which have been in use for years, so not a fair comparison). Is there a particular reason that people were replacing the mouse feet?
> 
> I also don't mind the weight, since I'm used to the G5/G500 and don't typically fast paced FPS games anyways. Happy so far.


I have all of those mice.


----------



## Omega215d

I have a pic of my G502 next to my Roccat Savu and CM Storm Spawn. My G500 up and died after years of use, my MX 518 v.1 is now being used on my parent's computer, and my G5 didn't survive all the rage fests I had on it... mostly because the sensor was being crap at inopportune times...

As for the Logitech Software, I haven't noticed a difference with it being on or off but in any case I just make my adjustments and exit/ uninstall the software as it has onboard memory.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Does anyone use the Logitech Gaming software ? I noticed different mouse movement with it installed but I can't be sure if it using different DPI than what I set. I'm using 1150 and 400 for sniper button.
> 
> Without the driver it is perfect for me, it stops where I exactly want and it move with precision. I want more heads up so I know it is something that repeats itself. using the newest 8.57.183, same happened with 8.57.177.


Does this happen if LCORE.exe is actually removed from memory but the driver is installed, but not active?
LGS should have no effect on the mouse if it isn't active in memory
The G keys on the G910 also become inoperable if LCore.exe is not in memory.

The newest version is 8.58.183, btw. Maybe your 7 was a typo. There was no 8.57.177 or 8.57.183 version.


----------



## eXteR

Past week was my birthday, and a friend of mine bought me as a gift a new Logitech G440 surface.

It's amazing how it performs compared to Steelseries QCK (I think that was smooth...).

I recommend to everyone. Let's see how the mouse feet resist.

Forgot to mention that i replaced original feet for this ones:

http://www.ebay.es/itm/Black-Hotline-Games-Logitech-Competition-G502-Gaming-Mouse-Feet-Skates-0-6mm-/191481833246?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item2c9534e71e

That 0.6mm was not enought to cover the feet, i had to put 2 sets (one over another) so the mouse can slide on the surfers.

Despite of that, the difference over the original ones i amazing.


----------



## jetpak12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Omega215d*
> 
> I have a pic of my G502 next to my Roccat Savu and CM Storm Spawn. My G500 up and died after years of use, my MX 518 v.1 is now being used on my parent's computer, and my G5 didn't survive all the rage fests I had on it... mostly because the sensor was being crap at inopportune times...
> 
> As for the Logitech Software, I haven't noticed a difference with it being on or off but in any case I just make my adjustments and exit/ uninstall the software as it has onboard memory.


My G5 would occasionally drop connection from the PC at random intervals after a few years of use, and Logitech replaced it with the G500. Then recently the LMB on the G500 has started failing after another few years, so I got the G502.







I feel like I've adjusted to the G502 at this point and I'm liking it a lot, no complaints from me.

I'm thinking I'll take apart the G5 and G500. Maybe I can put one inside the other and get one working again reliably.

I usually keep the Logitech Software running because it hasn't caused any issues for me. I also did the surface tuning and I didn't feel any difference.


----------



## jdstock76

So the general consensus is that the G440 is better than the QCK because I'm about to buy the QCK?


----------



## SalmonTaco

I haven't tried the G440 but I like my SteelSeries 4HD (another hard pad) a lot more than the QCK mini I had been using. I used the calibration tool but don't know if it really made much difference - the G502/4HD combo is awesome.

I have been using the Logitech software for two different mice (I had a G700 before the G502) and have never had any issues.


----------



## cgg123321

Does anyone else's page jump up or down (to the very top or bottom) if they press in the scroll wheel while the mouse is moving on a webpage? It's probably a habit of mine but this is the first time a mouse as done this.

Also, has anyone tried replacing the scroll wheel with one from a G500? I saw a post somewhere where someone did that, and the wheels are only $5 on ebay.

Just got this mouse and it's great, my only gripes about it are that it's quite heavy and the scroll wheel is kind of slippery


----------



## BTNMNKI

Just bought mine yesterday, I really like it, but it seems to almost wobble a bit. I think it may be due to me keeping most of my weight on the outer side of my hand, but there's a definite click from the underside of the mouse as it shifts from touching the tabletop on the left to right side and vice versa, almost like a pivot. Anyone else encounter this?


----------



## Meevz0r

Hello, I got a question for fellow G502 users. Does your mouse also rattles like shown in the video here:


----------



## semantics

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Meevz0r*
> 
> Hello, I got a question for fellow G502 users. Does your mouse also rattles like shown in the video here:


It's the tilt clicks on the high mass(mistake mass) scroll wheel. If you put it into click mode the scroll wheel no longer becomes a problem in games and that "rattle" lessens. High mass scroll wheel with dual modes sounds like fun but then you realize that the mass of the scroll wheel in free scroll causes it to move when you swipe with any speed meaning you always have to put it in click mode for games or just don't bind anything to it for games. Certainly their best feeling free scroll wheel they've made but still not great, shame that they can't get it to work great freescroll is by far the best way to surf the web and for productivity.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cgg123321*
> 
> Does anyone else's page jump up or down (to the very top or bottom) if they press in the scroll wheel while the mouse is moving on a webpage? It's probably a habit of mine but this is the first time a mouse as done this.
> 
> Also, has anyone tried replacing the scroll wheel with one from a G500? I saw a post somewhere where someone did that, and the wheels are only $5 on ebay.
> 
> Just got this mouse and it's great, my only gripes about it are that it's quite heavy and the scroll wheel is kind of slippery


Yes, when it is on the free scroll mode.
I got used to switching between the modes based on the situation.
I used the free scroll when trying to navigate through looooooooooooooooong pages


----------



## Meevz0r

Mine does that even in default scrolling mode :/.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Meevz0r*
> 
> Mine does that even in default scrolling mode :/.


Factory default scrolling mode is the free scrolling mode.
Just to be sure, you can use the button near the scroll to switch between modes.


----------



## Meevz0r

Yeah I know thanks







.

Mine does rattle in both scrolling modes, a little bit more rattle in free scrolling mode though.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Meevz0r*
> 
> Yeah I know thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Mine does rattle in both scrolling modes, a little bit more rattle in free scrolling mode though.


By rattle you mean noise or the little bit movement up and down?

Rattling the noise happens regardless of the scrolling mode.
the Up and down little movement only happens (in my case) in the free scrolling mode, the other mode is too stiff for it to happen.


----------



## Meevz0r

I meant the noise caused by the mouswheel left/right movement.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Meevz0r*
> 
> I meant the noise caused by the mouswheel left/right movement.


That's click noise


----------



## Nakauri

Is there any possible way of mapping to the scroll wheel?
I'd really like to be able to use the scroll wheel up and down as themselves, but then make multibutton macros for g-shift + scrollwheelup.
I tried to do something like,
function OnEvent(event, arg, family)
if event == "MOUSE_WHEEL_UP" and arg == 6 then,
but obviously I was just grasping at straws here.

Impossible with the Proteus?


----------



## softskiller

I wonder that there is no discussion on any website when I google the variables the surfacing tuning writes into the settings.json at AppData\Local\Logitech\Logitech Gaming Software

In my case:

"ledDrive" : 0,
"minSqual" : 180,
"name" : "MySurface",
"pixelThreshold" : 38

Anyone tried to manually tweak "minSqual" and "pixelThreshold" or did multiple surface tunings and looked how consistent the settings are after each run? Well changing those values in that file on harddisk might have no effect when the surface tuning is stored in the mouse onboard memory.

One thing I noticed: Logitech says to use a white sheet of paper to test the mouse functionality. Works perfect with factory settings.

After surface tuning of a black mouse pad with it's individual surface, movement on white paper is not registered by the mouse anymore.
Which is pretty okay, since I did not tune the white paper. It shows that the tuning has an effect.


----------



## Intangible

I just picked up a Proteus Core. There is no "click" from the mouse wheel left. But there is a "click" from the mouse wheel right.

Pretty sure its busted.









Can anyone that has one confirm that there is a "click" for both left and right?

Thanks!


----------



## ChrisPh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Intangible*
> 
> I just picked up a Proteus Core. There is no "click" from the mouse wheel left. But there is a "click" from the mouse wheel right.
> 
> Pretty sure its busted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone that has one confirm that there is a "click" for both left and right?
> 
> Thanks!


yeah there is buddy, both sides does a ' click '

try using them and see what happens? Like in my case i have volume + and volume- in left and right


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Intangible*
> 
> I just picked up a Proteus Core. There is no "click" from the mouse wheel left. But there is a "click" from the mouse wheel right.
> 
> Pretty sure its busted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can anyone that has one confirm that there is a "click" for both left and right?
> 
> Thanks!


Both sides make a click noise upon clicking them.
Test to see if both sides are functional or not.


----------



## Intangible

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Both sides make a click noise upon clicking them.
> Test to see if both sides are functional or not.


Yeah thats what I thought. The mouse has considerable drag on my mouse pad too. It feels like one of the mouse feet are too low and the mouse base is clipping.

Not even worth installing the drivers to test the button at this point. I'm just going to return it.

Thanks for the info!


----------



## x7007

Does anyone have an idea why I put the Tiger competition mouse feet and I just can't put it properly, it so pointy on the edges I can't insert it 100%.

it like dragging on those points and it doesn't smooth.


----------



## webtax

bought this yesterday, my only point of reference is the mx510 i've been using for the last 10 years. Some super subjective stuff

+ Things i knew before buying: extra buttons, better tracking and sensibility, better software support

After a day of use (fingertip grip)::

+feel of regular buttons is quite better
+placement of backward/forward buttons is quite better, G8, G7 and side scroll wheel buttons are good too.

-placement of G9 button(south of scroll wheel) is a little far back, i'll see if i can adjust
-scroll wheel is very slippy

other notes:
Thumb snipe button is quite far away from my thumb, need to exert to press this .
Infinite scroll: i tend to stick to a single setting, so i don't see myself using it ( it also kind of gets in the way to the G9 button).
Frame of the mouse feels bigger, but just a little.. hopefully it won't matter after a while, but with fingertip grip every mm counts, i'll have to see.
The surface of the mouse feels a hotter at first than the colder glassy mx510/518 .

/


----------



## rivage

Hi everyone,

Does the 502 track well on my Goliathus Speed Edition or I need to buy a better pad (recommandations would be greatly appreciated) cuz I'm heavily tempted on buying the mouse, thank's!


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Does anyone have an idea why I put the Tiger competition mouse feet and I just can't put it properly, it so pointy on the edges I can't insert it 100%.
> 
> it like dragging on those points and it doesn't smooth.


I have no idea what you're trying to say.
"doesn't smooth?"
What?
Do you mean "it doesn't glide smooth?"
The picture you posted looks perfect to me.
I sure can't see a problem...

The hotline games competition feet are the exact same.
You put them on by being careful and having steady hands. Maybe your hands aren't steady?

Apply them by starting in a corner instead of laying it flush. Then once you get the corner put on correctly, just pivot the rest of the surface with the corner as your guide and put it on.

I did have to throw away a couple of the V sensor feet because my hands weren't steady enough. But that's why I bought several packages.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> I have no idea what you're trying to say.
> "doesn't smooth?"
> What?
> Do you mean "it doesn't glide smooth?"
> The picture you posted looks perfect to me.
> I sure can't see a problem...
> 
> The hotline games competition feet are the exact same.
> You put them on by being careful and having steady hands. Maybe your hands aren't steady?
> 
> Apply them by starting in a corner instead of laying it flush. Then once you get the corner put on correctly, just pivot the rest of the surface with the corner as your guide and put it on.
> 
> I did have to throw away a couple of the V sensor feet because my hands weren't steady enough. But that's why I bought several packages.


It's like it fit but everything I tried, maybe the black adhesive touch it and not the mouse feet.


----------



## Falkentyne

Uh........wait..
You do know that those mouse feet have a self-sticking (not adhesive) PLASTIC COATING over them to protect the surface from scratches or from quality breakdown during storage?
Did you remove the thin plastic coating?

The hotline games competition and performance g502 feet have that coating.
it's VERY hard to tell it's on unless you know what to look for.
Maybe you forgot to remove it?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Uh........wait..
> You do know that those mouse feet have a self-sticking (not adhesive) PLASTIC COATING over them to protect the surface from scratches or from quality breakdown during storage?
> Did you remove the thin plastic coating?
> 
> The hotline games competition and performance g502 feet have that coating.
> it's VERY hard to tell it's on unless you know what to look for.
> Maybe you forgot to remove it?


ha ofc I did remove them , I will try to explain it more soon when I have more time.


----------



## Falkentyne

Ok just checking.
I made that mistake on my first set of feet. Took about 20 seconds to realize it. (They were easy to remove after; I just had to use my fingernail on the corner and the protective plastic came right off


----------



## Intangible

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Uh........wait..
> You do know that those mouse feet have a self-sticking (not adhesive) PLASTIC COATING over them to protect the surface from scratches or from quality breakdown during storage?
> Did you remove the thin plastic coating?
> 
> The hotline games competition and performance g502 feet have that coating.
> it's VERY hard to tell it's on unless you know what to look for.
> Maybe you forgot to remove it?


Hmmm. The G502 have plastic on the feet? I didn't check that. Could explain the drag. But it's already boxed up and the middle mouse button is busted anyways.


----------



## Falkentyne

No, it only has plastic on replacement OEM feet.
The hotline games competition and performance sets have it.
The direct Logitech replacements by Logitech don't.


----------



## x7007

What I wanted to know what is the best way to use the mouse feet.

If the Tiger comes with 1mm it has adhesive layer + mouse feet on top like the original G502 when it comes out of the box.

So if we take the Hotline competition and performance they both 0.65mm , but if Logitech has the adhesive layer and are 0.65mm as mouse feet replacement without the adhesive then if you try to use only 0.65mm then we will have issues ? the Tiger is like the logitech Retail out of the box mouse feet.

The only problem I saw by now is trying to use 0.65 + 0.28 cause some movement and tracking issues.


----------



## Falkentyne

Um, I don't know about the tiger feet,
But the Hotline games feet and the original Logitech feet were the *Exact* same size. Both were 0.6mm. They were not 1mm.
I have two stacks of 0.6mm hotline games feet on my G502 (two of them have two stacks of 0.6mm feet, the third just has the normal one layer). I have no problems. I do have issues if I use surface tuning with 2x0.6mm, but with the factory surface setting it's fine.

What tracking issues did you have? Because 0.6mm + 0.28mm is a lot lower than that I'm using. I'm using 1.2mm (0.6mm x2) and no issues on default surface setting.

The reason I am using double stacked feet is to raise the surface so that the right edge of the mouse (the side opposite the weight door lever) doesn't accidentally scrape or touch the mouse pad if it gets tilted slightly. The bottom of the mouse has those strange triangle shaped thingies in the coating, and with the default feet, if you even tilt the mouse slightly, it touches the mouse pad and ruins the glide or causes wear. Putting a double layer of feet on fixed that.

The max liftoff distance is about 1.5mm. Having 1.2mm of feet on is just enough to keep the tracking. Didn't see any loss of max PCS either. Just can't use tuning with that setup.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Um, I don't know about the tiger feet,
> But the Hotline games feet and the original Logitech feet were the *Exact* same size. Both were 0.6mm. They were not 1mm.
> I have two stacks of 0.6mm hotline games feet on my G502 (two of them have two stacks of 0.6mm feet, the third just has the normal one layer). I have no problems. I do have issues if I use surface tuning with 2x0.6mm, but with the factory surface setting it's fine.
> 
> What tracking issues did you have? Because 0.6mm + 0.28mm is a lot lower than that I'm using. I'm using 1.2mm (0.6mm x2) and no issues on default surface setting.
> 
> The reason I am using double stacked feet is to raise the surface so that the right edge of the mouse (the side opposite the weight door lever) doesn't accidentally scrape or touch the mouse pad if it gets tilted slightly. The bottom of the mouse has those strange triangle shaped thingies in the coating, and with the default feet, if you even tilt the mouse slightly, it touches the mouse pad and ruins the glide or causes wear. Putting a double layer of feet on fixed that.
> 
> The max liftoff distance is about 1.5mm. Having 1.2mm of feet on is just enough to keep the tracking. Didn't see any loss of max PCS either. Just can't use tuning with that setup.


So can you make me a list of what you have tried and what have worked ? can you take a closeup screenshot to see how it looks like ?

from what I understand you use x2 0.65mm Hotline Performance or Competition or we can any ? on top of each other to have 0.6x0.6 = 1.2 without the adhesive layer that stays with the original logitech mouse feet out of the box.

I want to know all the combinations that works and see how it looks, cause Mouse feet is bloody hardware than software lol.


----------



## Falkentyne

What are you talking about?
I already told you what I did. I stuck two sets of hotline games feet on my mouse to raise the surface up a bit. That's all.

No I'm not taking a screenshot. I don't have any -.- Sorry.

It sounds like you're asking me to test stuff for you. I Think you can do that yourself. You can order packs from takasha on ebay (I don't remember his name) and find out what works for you.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> What are you talking about?
> I already told you what I did. I stuck two sets of hotline games feet on my mouse to raise the surface up a bit. That's all.
> 
> No I'm not taking a screenshot. I don't have any -.- Sorry.
> 
> It sounds like you're asking me to test stuff for you. I Think you can do that yourself. You can order packs from takasha on ebay (I don't remember his name) and find out what works for you.


I only asked what you have tested, you didn't say which one did you use the performance or the competition, what I'm asking is you used the performance, will the competition works the same ? By the feeling Tiger is way better and more slippery than the HotLine. Trust me I have enough Mouse feet for a year, the only issue is I tested enough and nothing worked, if you are suggesting me to waste money and to test what I want, is a bad suggestion, I only asked from your experience to see if it works and I'll do it.

On other object :

Will the mouse will work on those mouse pads ?

I'm looking for something that close to the SteelSeries i-2 , do you think the Maxtill-G is same/close enough ? and if I do find the i-2 , should I get it or the Maxtill-G ?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAXTILL-G-PAD-Anti-Scratch-TEMPERED-GLASS-MOUSE-PAD-MouesPad-270-x-220mm-White/271744392556?_trksid=p5411.c100167.m2940&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140131123730%26meid%3D8a10e49746884abeb2f9842e02c06131%26pid%3D100167%26rk%3D7%26rkt%3D15%26sd%3D251942234976

They are different mouse pads ?

http://store.shopping.yahoo.co.jp/nandemo-glass-kan/gpw004.html

http://logical-gaming.blogspot.co.il/2014/06/g-pad.html


----------



## Falkentyne

Ok well,
Performance hotline games feet work best on HARD pads--like the Razer Exactmat.
The competition silver treated feet don't glide as smooth (it's still smoother than a cloth pad, but feels..ahem..rough).
This is NOT a problem with the competition feet at all. The Hyperglides (on my deathadder) have the SAME issue on hard pads (like the exactmat) compared to the puretrak talent, etc.

The competition silver treated feet feel best on cloth pads, but to be honest, if you have a fast pad like the puretrak talent, there will only be a small difference between the competition and performance feet, with the competition feet feeling the smoothest. I recommend competition for cloth.

Performance for hard/metal mats that are not 100% fully smooth/polished.

For smooth polished hard mats, I don't know.

I only used the standard Logitech feet and the hotline games. (and hyperglides for my deathadders). sorry.


----------



## webtax

reporting after a week of usage (fingertip grip):

-tracking is on spot, no issues there.
-scroll wheel: after a couple of days i got used to it, and have started to use the infinite scroll a couple of times.
-i think i'm okay with the G9 button, used that button for alt tabbing on the mx510 quite a lot, so it's important that i feel good with it. It requires a little bit more trajectory to press than the MX51x buttons, that's the main difference

Not so good:

-G8 & G7, since they are to the left of my index finger, that movement feels kind of unnatural so i haven't been able to use them, tried to use volume up/down, but ended up setting that on the scroll left/right, which works super good.
- Snipe button, too far ahead of my thumb, i have to lose control of the whole mouse to press it


- Also my pinkie and ring finger feel a little cramped, it's strange because the shapes of both mice are very similar, but after i pick up the G502 it kind of does that.. i think i'll give it another week


----------



## softskiller

Guys, is your mouse free of any jitter especially at 1000Hz?
Also, are you able to draw straight lines in paint?
Even at low 400 dpi (Win 6sens) the sensitivity is so high that the mouse drifts to the sides.


----------



## baril

You shouldn't be able to draw straight lines, if angle snapping is disabled.


----------



## Ufasas

Is this the right wheel for replacement of g502 wheel?

it's written "For g700 g500 mx1100 m705 mice" , so i suppose g500's wheel is very similar to g502. I have already removed small board with switches for side buttons, magnet and bottom cover, shaved around 10g, expecting to shave 10~ more with this wheel, little inexpensive shave-off


----------



## baril

Had G500 in the past. Using G502 now. Wheels look different to me. I don't know, but probably your wheel won't fit.


----------



## Zedramus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> 
> 
> Is this the right wheel for replacement of g502 wheel?
> 
> it's written "For g700 g500 mx1100 m705 mice" , so i suppose g500's wheel is very similar to g502. I have already removed small board with switches for side buttons, magnet and bottom cover, shaved around 10g, expecting to shave 10~ more with this wheel, little inexpensive shave-off


I think this may work, but I personally haven't tested it. I did however find a blog where someone swapped a G500 scrollwheel into a G502.

Check it out here: http://blog.siddv.net/2014/09/logitech-g502-proteus-core-teardown.html

Hope this helps.


----------



## baril

Good to know. Thanks for sharing it.


----------



## Ufasas

Getting the wheel from China, will see how it fits : P


----------



## Arc0s

The wheel fits, but it has close to the same weight as the g502 wheel give or take 1g, so no point in replacing it.


----------



## Ufasas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> The wheel fits, but it has close to the same weight as the g502 wheel give or take 1g, so no point in replacing it.


If there is no point, you're born to make a point then

http://i.imgur.com/NB6WTbJ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/zVAFS4y.jpg


----------



## Arc0s

Oh you're going to mod it, I modded mine with epoxy and shaved off a lot of weight but it was slippery afterwards so went back to original wheel. What material will you be using?


----------



## Ufasas

Guy Wae Liano did it with rubber gaskets looking something like this:



Gotta get some too and replace g500 wheel's heavier metal parts with lighter rubber


----------



## Arc0s

Nice, post some pics when you're done. I'll probably do this mod also since I like the shape but dislike the weight.


----------



## softskiller

Does anyone know any competitive pro gamers who are using the G502 for example in FPS like CS:GO or other games where fast precise aim is vital?

Cloud9 is a team sponsored by Logitech, one would assume that they use the top of the line product G502 but they are using mice like the G302 (shroud) or G100s (n0thing)


----------



## Ufasas

Sure, will take couple of weeks to get the wheel to uk : p , also you can check the link with shortcut to Sidd's blog some posts above


----------



## boogdud

Shame we don't have access to a 3d printer. This sounds like a perfect job to just pull the outer metal wheel off, scan it, and produce a new one made of plastic and try it on the mouse. Would save a ton of weight.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> Does anyone know any competitive pro gamers who are using the G502 for example in FPS like CS:GO or other games where fast precise aim is vital?
> 
> Cloud9 is a team sponsored by Logitech, one would assume that they use the top of the line product G502 but they are using mice like the G302 (shroud) or G100s (n0thing)


I don't know if he is good (compared to eSports pros) but this is the best one i found using G502.
Youtube - SK JJikA


----------



## Itsumo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> Cloud9 is a team sponsored by Logitech, one would assume that they use the top of the line product G502 but they are using mice like the G302 (shroud) or G100s (n0thing)


shroud and seangares use the g303
freakazoid is using the g402 but said he will be trying out the g502 and g400s
i believe skadoodle is trying out the g303 and g402


----------



## Maximillion

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I don't know if he is good (compared to eSports pros) but this is the best one i found using G502.
> Youtube - SK JJikA


I'm afraid you're mistaken. Jika used the Xai for the longest then eventually switched over to the FK/1 and also started to use the Avior after his SK affiliation. AFIAK he's never used the G502.


----------



## Sencha

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I'm afraid you're mistaken. Jika used the Xai for the longest then eventually switched over to the FK/1 and also started to use the Avior after his SK affiliation. AFIAK he's never used the G502.


You're correct.









I've chatted to him direct quite a bit about his set up.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Maximillion*
> 
> I'm afraid you're mistaken. Jika used the Xai for the longest then eventually switched over to the FK/1 and also started to use the Avior after his SK affiliation. AFIAK he's never used the G502.


I have asked him in one of his videos a while ago.
I will try to get that video if i can.

You are correct.
For some reason, i confused Jika with 



.


----------



## prosunza

What is the best mouse feet that suitable for g502?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ufasas

I ordered competition level Hotline g502 skates from China, 2 GBP, 2 sets in 1 pack. Waiting 2 weeks to come to me. Heard competition level are better than performance level skates, also read that performance is better for hard pads, if i read well : S

Btw, just weighed magnet and 7 screws of 10 = 3 grams

Bottom doors - 7 grams

So i'm playing now with 116g weighing mouse, i guess with metal to plastic+rubber modified wheel i can have 100-106g something


----------



## Halciet

I used the
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> I ordered competition level Hotline g502 skates from China, 2 GBP, 2 sets in 1 pack. Waiting 2 weeks to come to me. Heard competition level are better than performance level skates, also read that performance is better for hard pads, if i read well : S


I've been using the Hotline Competition skates on mine on the smooth side of a Func 1030 pad. Yesterday I replaced the feet again for the third time in about five months. I spend a lot of time on my computer, but I'd say they wear out quite quickly. On the upside, you get two sets per pack, and each pack is pretty cheap, so...


----------



## MooMoo

Logitech G500 owner here,
Im thinking about upgrading (if you can call that) to G502, because I would like to have new mouse for a change.

G500 is all around good mouse, but mostly I don't like its lack of macro buttons (only 3 of them) and the middle one is often useless, because some games dont regonize it. DPI switch buttons are a bit far for me, feels little awkward to click them.

In G502, is there any buttons that doesn't often work with some games?
Does that "sniper button" push down easily? As owner of large hands (I use XL gloves) Im wondering would I accidently push it when moving mouse around.
Would you recommend G502 for palm/fingertip grip user?


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> I ordered competition level Hotline g502 skates from China, 2 GBP, 2 sets in 1 pack. Waiting 2 weeks to come to me. Heard competition level are better than performance level skates, also read that performance is better for hard pads, if i read well : S
> 
> Btw, just weighed magnet and 7 screws of 10 = 3 grams
> 
> Bottom doors - 7 grams
> 
> So i'm playing now with 116g weighing mouse, i guess with metal to plastic+rubber modified wheel i can have 100-106g something


I have both performance and competition skates and three g502's.

The performance level skates are basically clones of the original default feet. (I know that Tiger games default feet is the exact same feet that Razer uses in their deathadders.....tiger is actually their Chinese OEM). The performance skates feel really good on my Razer Exactmat pad (either control or speed surfaces) while the competition silver treated stakes feel like complete ass on it.

The competition skates feel better on my puretrak talent and my Goliathus speed than the performance skates, but both feel good. Just the competition feels and slides better.

The Hyperglides on my Deathadder black edition feel JUST as bad on the Exactmat surface as the competition silver feet feel on it, and feel just as smooth on the Talent, as the competition feet feel on it (better than the performance feet). Your mileage may vary but I hope that helps.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Halciet*
> 
> I used the
> I've been using the Hotline Competition skates on mine on the smooth side of a Func 1030 pad. Yesterday I replaced the feet again for the third time in about five months. I spend a lot of time on my computer, but I'd say they wear out quite quickly. On the upside, you get two sets per pack, and each pack is pretty cheap, so...


Is that a hard pad or a soft pad?


----------



## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Is that a hard pad or a soft pad?


fUNC 1030 is a hard pad with a polycarbonate surface.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aayman_farzand*
> 
> fUNC 1030 is a hard pad with a polycarbonate surface.


Yeah that's what it seemed like.
So that thing probably eats up competition feet as fast as it would eat up hyperglides, lol

The Exactmat I mentioned is made of anodized aluminum.


----------



## Ufasas

thanks, just got exactmat, gt-f rough 2x cheaper and i own qck + gt-f speed, will be interesting to compare


----------



## STRATEGY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> I have both performance and competition skates and three g502's.
> 
> The performance level skates are basically clones of the original default feet. (I know that Tiger games default feet is the exact same feet that Razer uses in their deathadders.....tiger is actually their Chinese OEM). The performance skates feel really good on my Razer Exactmat pad (either control or speed surfaces) while the competition silver treated stakes feel like complete ass on it.
> 
> The competition skates feel better on my puretrak talent and my Goliathus speed than the performance skates, but both feel good. Just the competition feels and slides better.
> 
> The Hyperglides on my Deathadder black edition feel JUST as bad on the Exactmat surface as the competition silver feet feel on it, and feel just as smooth on the Talent, as the competition feet feel on it (better than the performance feet). Your mileage may vary but I hope that helps.


So the best feet that suitable for G502 coupled with cloth pad should be hotline gaming 0.6mm Competition right?


----------



## Halciet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Yeah that's what it seemed like.
> So that thing probably eats up competition feet as fast as it would eat up hyperglides, lol
> 
> The Exactmat I mentioned is made of anodized aluminum.


I will say, having used Hyperglides on other mice in the past - the Hotline competition feet definitely wear down faster on the same surface. I suppose I could consider switching pads...just been so happy with the func for going on 11 or 12 years now.


----------



## FreeElectron

I have been using my G502 for few months now and the original feet are still good.


----------



## LegoFarmer

I normally use tigergaming skates.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Halciet*
> 
> I will say, having used Hyperglides on other mice in the past - the Hotline competition feet definitely wear down faster on the same surface. I suppose I could consider switching pads...just been so happy with the func for going on 11 or 12 years now.


Yeah I agree.
Remember the hyperglides are *PURE* hard Teflon, so they will last awhile..
The competition feet aren't.

I used one set of hyperglides on my DA's but they wore out even on cloth pads after awhile, so I stacked 2 levels of feet. Also lowered the LOD slightly.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *STRATEGY*
> 
> So the best feet that suitable for G502 coupled with cloth pad should be hotline gaming 0.6mm Competition right?


Yeah the competition feet glide really well on cloth pads.
The performance feet aren't bad, either. Two stacks (double stack on the same mouse) on a cloth pad will last a year.


----------



## hleV

Hello. Need some advice.

I have purchased G502 and turned out to be one of the Sniper Button Haters™. My thumb is plenty big and the hand position I'm most comfortable with happens to put the thumb right on the sniper button. Now I've gotten it stuck so at least I'm not doing the annoying click (the button effect is disabled, of course), but the button is still out a little and makes it uncomfortable to keep my thumb on it. Can something be done to make it comfortable? I know there are people who took the button out (which I suppose voids the warranty), but unless it's the only option, I'd like to try something else first.

Other than that I really like the mouse. The sensor is superb and does its job flawlessly even on the wooden desk surface (yea I plan to get QcK+ sometime).



http://imgur.com/QaMythy




http://imgur.com/oxq2dFo


----------



## STRATEGY

well i just got my 0.6 mm competition feet . It glides very smooth and precisely cut unlike the Tiger gaming feet.


----------



## Falkentyne

Ahem, I just ordered 6 sets (3 packs with 2 sets each) of tiger gaming Teflon feet, and a few more "performance" feet (since I already have 4 packages of 2 sets each of Competition feet).

Going to have fun finding out which one glides the best on what surface.

P.S I do like that the tiger gaming Teflon feet is 1mm. 0.6mm is really too low due to the right side of the mouse possibly scratching the surface at even the slightest tilt. 2x.6mm of stacked hotlines feet for 1.2mm fixes that problem but you're at the border of the sensor limits there. Factory default tuning still works flawlessly on the Talent pad, but calibration causes it to randomly spaz out sometimes. (With the single 0.6mm feet on, it never spazzed out on calibration). So shaving 0.2mm off vs 1.2mm will be interesting.


----------



## prosunza

I bought them the 1mm version of tiger gaming . it glides too fast on my hayate otsu and I loss control. Surface tuning is unavailable to use , stick with factory default if you go above 1mm . i find myself 0.6mm is the perfect thickness .

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## hleV

Follow up to this:



Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hleV*
> 
> Hello. Need some advice.
> 
> I have purchased G502 and turned out to be one of the Sniper Button Haters™. My thumb is plenty big and the hand position I'm most comfortable with happens to put the thumb right on the sniper button. Now I've gotten it stuck so at least I'm not doing the annoying click (the button effect is disabled, of course), but the button is still out a little and makes it uncomfortable to keep my thumb on it. Can something be done to make it comfortable? I know there are people who took the button out (which I suppose voids the warranty), but unless it's the only option, I'd like to try something else first.
> 
> Other than that I really like the mouse. The sensor is superb and does its job flawlessly even on the wooden desk surface (yea I plan to get QcK+ sometime).
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/QaMythy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://imgur.com/oxq2dFo








http://imgur.com/fBel6Kb


The button itself is not damaged too much and would still work if I ever wanted (hah!) to put it back (though I'm not certain the button would sit in its place well). Now to cover that hole...


----------



## x7007

This is how it looks like when it comes out the box. i ordered another one to replace my da2013 at work with asus g751jt.


Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!








[/SPOLIER]

The oem mouse feet are not pointy like hotline and tiger. And somehow smaller easier to put in the slot.


----------



## iARDAs

I am going to be buying this mouse but I can not decide on the mousepads.

How is the SteelSeries 4HD mousepad?


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> I am going to be buying this mouse but I can not decide on the mousepads.
> 
> How is the SteelSeries 4HD mousepad?


Puretrak Talent?


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> Puretrak Talent?


Not available here in Turkey


----------



## UZ7

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> I am going to be buying this mouse but I can not decide on the mousepads.
> 
> How is the SteelSeries 4HD mousepad?


I use this with my 4HD, works well


----------



## iARDAs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *UZ7*
> 
> I use this with my 4HD, works well


Ahh good to know. Thanks


----------



## FreeElectron

I have been using my G502 for few months now and the original feet is still good.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> Not available here in Turkey


Oh..


----------



## MooMoo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> I am going to be buying this mouse but I can not decide on the mousepads.
> 
> How is the SteelSeries 4HD mousepad?


I would say, go for the larget one, 9HD. I feel that 4HD is often a bit small when playing games, otherwise its nice.


----------



## SalmonTaco

I
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iARDAs*
> 
> I am going to be buying this mouse but I can not decide on the mousepads.
> 
> How is the SteelSeries 4HD mousepad?


I love my 4HD. My G502 is set on 2000dpi and I don't use/need a massive pad though. It feels super smooth and nice, was using a qck previously, much better feel and control on the 4HD.


----------



## Ufasas

Damn that g400 shape on the right, reminds me how i hated this mouse, because wasn't comfortable to place fingers and have a great grip









Btw, aluminium exactmat speed is just perfect with g502, wow, i say wow! Glides better than on gt-f speed zowie, i am happy. And i didn't like gt-f rough, needs more force to push the mouse, kinda not for my likings


----------



## Falkentyne

Yeah the exactmat was designed for default mouse pads like the G502 uses. It glides good doesn't it?

hyperglides (like I have on my deathadders) feel rough and scratchy on the exactmat. Same for the "competition" hotline games feet, while the performance feet (clones of the original black feet) feel great.


----------



## Ufasas

Has anyone tried to replace braided cable to rubber one?


----------



## softskiller

I would prefer a rubber cable.
This braided gets stuck on the edge of one of my mouse mats.
And it also scratches on the wood finish of my desk like chalk on a board.


----------



## Ufasas

Yeah. same, sometimes i need to pull some more piece of cable out of bungee to make it more comfortable playing the game, would prefer razer abyssus 2014 or zowie fk cable, sweetest cables


MX518 MX510 MX500 MX310 G1 G3 cable into 502?


----------



## Kanivakil

I have the G502, G9X, and G700s now. The G502 feels light even with all the weights installed.


----------



## softskiller

Wrote this some pages ago:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> Does anyone know any competitive pro gamers who are using the G502 for example in FPS like CS:GO or other games where fast precise aim is vital?
> 
> Cloud9 is a team sponsored by Logitech, one would assume that they use the top of the line product G502 but they are using mice like the G302 (shroud) or G100s (n0thing)


Well the currently world's highest ranked CS:GO team TSM also uses Logitech sponsored mice.
They also refuse/ignore the G502, 3 guys with G303 and two using the G402.

http://www.tsm.gg/index.php/p/teams/?game=csgo

My problem with this mouse: it's extremely sensitive even at 400 DPI (1,8 or 2 game sens), no matter if 500 or 1000Hz and at the same time a bit laggy - even a 15 year old 125Hz Logitech bulk optical mouse feels more responsive. Not easy to get headshots on little medium distance 4 pixel heads.

All this additional stuff that introduces latency like surface tuning, profiles, makros, firmware, software and (virtual) drivers and so on doesn't really help the responsiveness.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> Wrote this some pages ago:
> Well the currently world's highest ranked CS:GO team TSM also uses Logitech sponsored mice.
> 
> They also refuse/ignore the G502, 3 guys with G303 and two using the G402.


Didn't they all use the G303 at one point? Did some of them switch away from the G303 to the G402?

Skadoodle [Cloud 9] and n0thing [Cloud 9] tried out the G303, then went with the G402 and G100S instead. Shahzam [ex Cloud 9] and Semphis [ex Cloud 9] both switched away from the G303 once they got fired from the team, they might be using it again.


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> Wrote this some pages ago:
> Well the currently world's highest ranked CS:GO team TSM also uses Logitech sponsored mice.
> They also refuse/ignore the G502, 3 guys with G303 and two using the G402.
> 
> http://www.tsm.gg/index.php/p/teams/?game=csgo
> 
> My problem with this mouse: it's extremely sensitive even at 400 DPI (1,8 or 2 game sens), no matter if 500 or 1000Hz and at the same time a bit laggy - even a 15 year old 125Hz Logitech bulk optical mouse feels more responsive. Not easy to get headshots on little medium distance 4 pixel heads.
> 
> All this additional stuff that introduces latency like surface tuning, profiles, makros, firmware, software and (virtual) drivers and so on doesn't really help the responsiveness.


I believe Device used to have a G502 for a brief period of time after signing for TSM and switched to a G402.


----------



## Halciet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> I would prefer a rubber cable.
> This braided gets stuck on the edge of one of my mouse mats.
> And it also scratches on the wood finish of my desk like chalk on a board.


Have you considered getting a mouse bungee? I started using one a couple of years ago, and it really makes a huge difference.


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Halciet*
> 
> Have you considered getting a mouse bungee? I started using one a couple of years ago, and it really makes a huge difference.


I always tape my cable to the desk. xp

Never got used to these bungees, but on the other hand it gets really tricky with a braided, thick G502 cable, a QcK+ and a really loyal cat in the house...


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pa12a*
> 
> I always tape my cable to the desk. xp
> 
> Never got used to these bungees, but on the other hand it gets really tricky with a braided, thick G502 cable, a QcK+ and a really loyal cat in the house...


I use this one and it's ok.
Amazon.com | ENHANCE Gaming Mouse Bungee & Active 2.0 USB Hub for Cord Management with Flexible Arm & Data Transfer - Works with Logitech G502 , Anker CG100 , Razer DeathAdder Chroma & More Gaming Mice $19.99


----------



## Phreec

Just ordered the mouse.

Been on the prowl for a mouse with more than two thumb buttons and a flawless optical sensor for ages but finally decided on the g502 as it technically fits my every need. I'm not much for replacing otherwise still perfectly fine hardware but my current Steelseries XAI (Laser) just doesn't have enough buttons for my CSGO and ARMA 3 sessions.

Any tips or FAQ available for new customers? I read something about having to use the factory default surface optimization to not have it glitch you into a spastic ballerina.


----------



## hleV

G502 and its software usage is pretty straightforward. I am using the surface calibration and so far no issues (playing competetive CSGO).


----------



## softskiller

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hleV*
> 
> G502 and its software usage is pretty straightforward. I am using the surface calibration and so far no issues (playing competetive CSGO).


I wont ask for your CS:GO rank, but your mouse settings?
I am always switching between 400, 500, 600, 800 dpi and 500/1000Hz and also calibration and no calibration to find the right responsiveness and a sensitivity that is not too fine.
I also disable the Logitech GamePanel Virtual Bus Enumerator and the autostart entry.


----------



## Furiosus

So I still wasn't happy with the G502 even after the changes I had made. Still too heavy, quite unbalanced too. I'm back to using a EC1 with a terrible sensor while work on something...

That thing is a 3d printed shell for the G502, which should hopefully be more light weight. It'll still need more work after I get it printed though, and I'm not sure how best to design the buttons since this is the first attempt at this I've made. Currently still designing it - along with the buttons I need to re check the measurements of the circuit boards.

The design is based on a plasticine model I made to match my hand.


----------



## hleV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> I wont ask for your CS:GO rank, but your mouse settings?
> I am always switching between 400, 500, 600, 800 dpi and 500/1000Hz and also calibration and no calibration to find the right responsiveness and a sensitivity that is not too fine.
> I also disable the Logitech GamePanel Virtual Bus Enumerator and the autostart entry.


2,400 DPI (because that's what I use on desktop while not gaming), 1,000Hz, 0.5 in-game sensitivity, rank LEM.


----------



## softskiller

By the way at the reddit CS:GO section is a thread from today with the title: "Does anyone else's mouse do this occasionally?" with nearly 600 replies about the mouse spazzing phenomenon. Lots of G502 comments.


----------



## Brightmist

If they've checked here they'd know that it's because of surface calibration and only happens above 3-3.5+ m/s speed.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furiosus*
> 
> So I still wasn't happy with the G502 even after the changes I had made. Still too heavy, quite unbalanced too. I'm back to using a EC1 with a terrible sensor while work on something...
> 
> That thing is a 3d printed shell for the G502, which should hopefully be more light weight. It'll still need more work after I get it printed though, and I'm not sure how best to design the buttons since this is the first attempt at this I've made. Currently still designing it - along with the buttons I need to re check the measurements of the circuit boards.
> 
> The design is based on a plasticine model I made to match my hand.


nice, are you planning to keep the 16382 side buttons?


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furiosus*
> 
> So I still wasn't happy with the G502 even after the changes I had made. Still too heavy, quite unbalanced too. I'm back to using a EC1 with a terrible sensor while work on something...
> 
> That thing is a 3d printed shell for the G502, which should hopefully be more light weight. It'll still need more work after I get it printed though, and I'm not sure how best to design the buttons since this is the first attempt at this I've made. Currently still designing it - along with the buttons I need to re check the measurements of the circuit boards.
> 
> The design is based on a plasticine model I made to match my hand.


Wouldn't it be lighter (and easier?) to use the G303 PCB instead of the G502 PCB? How are you going to implement the scroll wheel?


----------



## qsxcv

i would rather just create a new g303 top/side shells if i know stuff about 3d printing


----------



## Furiosus

If I had a 303 that's what I'd go with, but sadly I don't. Tempted to get one in fact, though it'd be a choice between that and Finalmouse.

Edit: As for the side buttons - I'll try to keep some. Not sure I can get the ones on the front to work, in which case I'll just remove them to save weight. Tempted to put some Japanese Omron's in as well.


----------



## qsxcv

is it just me or does the g502 cable suck? mine feels like a solid copper wire


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brightmist*
> 
> If they've checked here they'd know that it's because of surface calibration and only happens above 3-3.5+ m/s speed.


Yeah it only happens with calibration (custom surface tuning) and only at high speeds.
I can't make it do it on my puretrak talent after tuning, but none of the tuning settings (EXCEPT factory default) work on my Razer goliathus speed edition. Factory default works fine on all the surfaces so far. Haven't tested high speed with the exactmat with tuning (pad is too small to do any real testing and I'm not about to lower the DPI to 200 to test it).


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> is it just me or does the g502 cable suck? mine feels like a solid copper wire


Honestly I think g303 is worse


----------



## qsxcv

what the hell man. my g303's is way better.

i guess something must have happened to their cables recently perhaps. i remember using the g502 at a friend's place and the cable was alright.

the cable on mine is like... you bend it with your fingers and it keeps the shape like a paper clip. exaggeration but you get the point


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> what the hell man. my g303's is way better.
> 
> i guess something must have happened to their cables recently perhaps. i remember using the g502 at a friend's place and the cable was alright.
> 
> the cable on mine is like... you bend it with your fingers and it keeps the shape like a paper clip. exaggeration but you get the point


Not sure what happens, but only issue I got with G502 is rather heavy.


----------



## softskiller

I posted this in another G502 thread:

"Does anyone else have the problem that when you do the surface tuning and wave your gun in circles in cs:go that the circles move downward and after like 5 big circles you aim to the ground; while without tuning or with another mouse, the circles would always stay centered where you began.

Here someone else mentions this problem, but he thought it's a sensor problem, while it comes from tuning:
http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Logitech-G-Mice/G502-Cursor-Issue/td-p/1235970"


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> I posted this in another G502 thread:
> 
> "Does anyone else have the problem that when you do the surface tuning and wave your gun in circles in cs:go that the circles move downward and after like 5 big circles you aim to the ground; while without tuning or with another mouse, the circles would always stay centered where you began.
> 
> Here someone else mentions this problem, but he thought it's a sensor problem, while it comes from tuning:
> http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Logitech-G-Mice/G502-Cursor-Issue/td-p/1235970"


Yeah, it's known issue, logitech pretty much ignored it. Just use the factory default.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> 88.1.13. My only reasoning for why the same person will get it with some mice but not others is that either its a subconscious placebo thing that shows up when they want it to, or differences in mice acceleration levels will make the discrepancies larger or smaller. Maybe both
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I wish someone with the issue could meet up with someone who doesn't, and they can swap computers. I would wager that even on a "problem" mouse, some people would not get any drift.
> 
> My reasoning for this whole thing? If you think about it, if your circle is not an absolute perfect 360* arc for the whole thing, then even if you start and stop in the same place, the mouse has traveled farther in one direction then the other. These are of course small differences, but to a modern sensor dealing with incredibly small resolutions it is a huge deal. Now, add this to not only human error, but sensor acceleration, and now you have mice that will either increase this distance traveled difference due to positive acceleration(mouse drifting with the circles), or decrease this difference (mouse drifting against circles).
> 
> Makes sense to me at least
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> **Edit** Better explanation, did a quick paint. Sorry for any spelling/grammar errors, rushed through it just to get my theory out there,
> 
> My take on "circle drift"
> 
> 
> Hackshot explains the human error factor even more below!


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Puck*
> 
> Exactly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Between not making perfect circles, and rotating the mouse during testing, all sorts of human variables are involved.


----------



## softskiller

Could it be that this mouse works better with medium DPI settings like 800 than 400, 500 or 600?
Like if the high resolution 12.000DPI sensor has to "downscale" the movement data.

Low DPI settings like 400 don't only move slower like one expects or knows from other mice but also laggier.


----------



## Phreec

It's finally here! Been waiting for my order to arrive since last Wednesday and now after having it for an evening I've decided to stick with it.

I've been using a Steelseries XAI (laser) that I won at a BC2 event (*humblebrag*) for years but after a while I felt limited by only two thumb buttons in games like Arma 3 (zeroing, zooming, stance adjust etc) and CS:GO (more efficient grenade selecting etc) and decided that if I'm gonna get a new mouse it better also house a flawless optical sensor instead of a laser one like the XAI. I've kept an eye on the g502 for a while but decided to hold off and see if any major flaws would start popping up after the initial honeymoon phase. Only flaws so far were something about the feet peeling off and non-factory surface tuning making you spin. Those were easy enough to avoid so I placed an order last week.

At first glance the mouse looks uncomfortable with its edgy design but the parts that skin actually makes contact with make it feel just like any other mouse.
Although I find the g502 a bit too small for my hands (the G7 button is barely reachable and my thumb rests on the very top of the "sniper" button) I've noticed I'm resting my palm on it much more than I did on my previous mice. It definitely needs a grip adjustance for it to work for me.

The G-shift feature is what impressed me most though. I put it on the thumb "sniper" button and pretty much doubled the keys available on the mouse; insanely useful for ArmA 3 and desktop usage (switching between browser and mediaplayer controls).

So far I'm _*really*_ digging it.


----------



## Firann

I purchased my G502 last tuesday but havent been able to use it for an extended period of time until today. The mouse is gorgeous, fits perfectly in my hand and all that goodness.

My only question is, does everyone's else mouse heat up? I had it on my old sensei as well and i have it now. Basicly it feels warm on the top and under my palm after a bit of using. Just wanted to ask if its the same for everyone else.


----------



## Falkentyne

Some people have had problems with the mouse getting abnormally warm. If it gets -too- warm, RMA it. It's normal for it to get slightly warmer than room temperature, but if it feels like you're running your hand through warm water, that's a defect. One person had his mouse actually burn up (I think on Logitech forums, I don't remember) but that's EXTREMELY rare.


----------



## x7007

Can someone tell me why utorrent does that ?
If I close utorrent it stop doing check if I don't move the mouse, if utorrent is open it does on it's own without moving the mouse.
even when the mouse disconnected from the usb it still kept going.. that's weird as ** :C


----------



## qsxcv

prevent computer from sleeping?


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*


I Like how you erased all the porn torrents from the picture.


----------



## NicoNicoNii

I'm curious about this mouse, I have short and fat hands so I've always used pretty small mice, and this mouse looks like it's big but some people have complained that it's too small. I use pretty high sensitivity so weight isn't that big of an issue, I'm just concerned about the comfort of the mouse. I'm trying to decide between this and the G303 at the moment. I use a palm/claw grip hybrid.


----------



## thrgk

I have a super small hand also haha and I love it. I can reach all the bottoms very easily even the sniper and dpi buttons. I love it ,


----------



## NicoNicoNii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *thrgk*
> 
> I have a super small hand also haha and I love it. I can reach all the bottoms very easily even the sniper and dpi buttons. I love it ,


Alright nice, thanks!


----------



## Conceptx

G502 and G303 arrived to my collection







I have to say none of them is perfect for me, but all is pretty great mouse! If only I could combine the strenghts of them


----------



## softskiller

I wonder why we did not see any firmware or logitech gaming software updates in many months?
It's not that both are perfect final releases.

Did Logitech cut jobs at development and service?


----------



## Conceptx

I don't know, but why did they have to make the side of the g502 so rough?? I hate that part. The smooth sided g402 much better in this...


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conceptx*
> 
> I don't know, but why did they have to make the side of the g502 so rough?? I hate that part. The smooth sided g402 much better in this...


I feel rougher mice have a better grip for me than the smooth or glossy ones, but I'm one of the few people who have nothing to complain about in the G502, except the scroll wheel which I might just replace anyway


----------



## Conceptx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pa12a*
> 
> I feel rougher mice have a better grip for me than the smooth or glossy ones, but I'm one of the few people who have nothing to complain about in the G502, except the scroll wheel which I might just replace anyway


For a short period of time it might be ok but for longer I prefer the G402's smooth side. Have you tried that mice already? Somehow your fingers sticks to it better so you dont have to grab the mouse that hardly.


----------



## Pa12a

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Conceptx*
> 
> For a short period of time it might be ok but for longer I prefer the G402's smooth side. Have you tried that mice already? Somehow your fingers sticks to it better so you dont have to grab the mouse that hardly.


I've had the G502 since September '14, I tried using a Rival recently but the sensor would go crazy and point upwards (keep in mind, I used 450 CPI and 1, then went up to 1.3 after a while and I'm using 1.5 now, so it can't be the malfunction speed) and eventually found that the back was too big for me, I prefer a narrow back

But yeah, even with its weight it's almost the perfect mouse, despite the wheel which you get used to over time, it's just a bit uncomfortable bhopping in KZ.

The G402 I didn't try yet, as I got the G502 for cheap as it was the last one on sale at the shops and was for display/trying out. But hey, not risking anything as I am happy with the G502 as is, even with the metal wheel.


----------



## Arxeal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CPate*
> 
> I can, yes. The ridge from the G400s is not present. You can see a rotatable 3D rendering of the Proteus Core on the product page of our website.


Hi CPate, may I get some help or suggestions?

8 months after bought, my G502's mouse feet bend up, and it scratched over the mousepad with every movement.
Pressed the bend edge down with my fingernail a couple of times, hoping it would stay down. Of course, it wouldnt....

I called logitech custom service(the national one), gave my PN and SN to a girl. After that, she just told me it's man-made damage and refused to help.
I explained it's clearly not, but that girl just refused and suggested me to contact local service point to get help.
After I call to local service point, they said they can't help, and never have any spare mouse feet.

Used 4 logitech gaming mouses between many years, and this is the first time I met a problem.
Should I call to custom service again and hoping another one to answer the phone?

Uploaded a picture here:
http://imageshack.com/a/img538/3289/q0scQA.jpg


----------



## jaffa2843

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arxeal*


Buy one of these, and screw the Logitech.


----------



## Arxeal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jaffa2843*
> 
> Buy one of these, and screw the Logitech.


I'm too far from Ebay, there is similar web store here, but I can't find such mouse feet for g502.
Also, I see it's 1mm thickness, will this effect tracking on cloth pad?


----------



## Falkentyne

These are the feet you want. That's the original, well known seller. He's posted on these forums also.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tiger-Gaming-Logitech-G502-Mouse-Feet-2015-Edition-/121573737242?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item1c4e5c031a

The other link showed the carbon silver I think. He has them too, they're just out of stock.

You can try the hotline games ones too.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G502-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition-/121402762810?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item1c442b263a

The 0.6mm are for replacing the original feet and keeping the original LOD.
The 0.28mm are for putting on top of the original feet (e.g. if your feet are not peeling off, or you used another set of original 0.6 mm replacements) and want a slightly lower LOD (you can't use surface tuning though).


----------



## Arxeal

Thank you! The 0.6mm one looks nice, want to keep the original LOD.
As I live in China, eBay is not a very viable option, but should able to get it some where else.

BTW: as I never did this before, is it hard to remove the old glue and how?


----------



## Melan

http://www.itaktech.com/collections/hotline-games-mouse-feet/products/hotline-games-logitech-g502-mouse-feet-2014-edition?variant=992201067

Removing old glue is as hard as wiping the area with alcohol. Nothing complicated.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arxeal*
> 
> Thank you! The 0.6mm one looks nice, want to keep the original LOD.
> As I live in China, eBay is not a very viable option, but should able to get it some where else.
> 
> BTW: as I never did this before, is it hard to remove the old glue and how?


You know itaktech is in hong kong, right?

Just email him. he'll take care of you.
And both tiger gaming and hotline games are based in China.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arxeal*
> 
> is it hard to remove the old glue and how?


usually most of it comes off with the feet. if it doesn't you can try using the parts of the feet with glue on it to stick off the glue you don't want. and you can try using an eraser


----------



## Arxeal

Thanks for glue removing experience, sounds easier than I imagine.

@Falkentyne
Yes, I noticed these Chinese letters. Haven't found feet for g502 on "JD.com" at first, but now I found hotline games feet on another website "tmall.com".
http://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.4.qCvu4N&id=14311444844&ns=1&abbucket=13&skuId=65040917757


----------



## Above8

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> Has anyone tried to replace braided cable to rubber one?


You can just remove braiding from cable with blade or cuticle scissors. Cable will be more flexible.


----------



## espn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arxeal*
> 
> Thanks for glue removing experience, sounds easier than I imagine.
> 
> @Falkentyne
> Yes, I noticed these Chinese letters. Haven't found feet for g502 on "JD.com" at first, but now I found hotline games feet on another website "tmall.com".
> http://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.4.qCvu4N&id=14311444844&ns=1&abbucket=13&skuId=65040917757


Do you want to buy from tao bao or tmall? I can get it for you and ship to you. I am in Hong Kong.


----------



## Arxeal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *espn*
> 
> Do you want to buy from tao bao or tmall? I can get it for you and ship to you. I am in Hong Kong.


Thank you for kindness, I've already ordered one from tmall.


----------



## espn

How do you order to ship to foreign country? They have this option in tmall now?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arxeal*
> 
> Thank you for kindness, I've already ordered one from tmall.


----------



## DiaSin

Is there something that can be done to prevent this buildup of lint? I got this mouse not long after it came out, and I've been cleaning this off every couple of months now.


----------



## boogdud

You're getting that much dust on a hard pad? Only advice I can give is to dust your house more often.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> Is there something that can be done to prevent this buildup of lint? I got this mouse not long after it came out, and I've been cleaning this off every couple of months now.


If you replace the stock feet with hotline games mouse feet, you won't have a dust problem anymore. My apartment is a dust bowl yet the feet don't catch dust.


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *boogdud*
> 
> You're getting that much dust on a hard pad? Only advice I can give is to dust your house more often.


We have cats, so half of that is cathair. Also, I understand they changed the feet on the mouse after the time mine was made for this very reason, because the stock feet do not have rounded edges.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> If you replace the stock feet with hotline games mouse feet, you won't have a dust problem anymore. My apartment is a dust bowl yet the feet don't catch dust.


Thank you, I will look into those when I get some money.

Edit: Which set did you go with? There seem to be 4 options. Performane, at 0.28 and 0.6mm, and Competition at the same thicknesses. It says competition is supposed to be improved glide over the original pads, but I don't know which thickness I need.


----------



## Melan

0.28mm are stacked on original feet. 0.6mm are used to replace original. Get 0.6mm, tear off old feet, clean everything with alcohol and stick new ones on.


----------



## subreach87

mouse for the pros, yet c9 cs:go team not using it huh.


----------



## majnu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *subreach87*
> 
> mouse for the pros, yet c9 cs:go team not using it huh.


Ever heard of sponsorship?


----------



## qsxcv

logitech doesn't force any of their sponsored players to use a particular mouse from their series

tsm and c9 are their 2 sponsored teams
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> TSM uses (2) G402 and (3) G303.
> 
> Cloud9 uses (2) G402, (2) G100S and (1) G303.


though i think device used to use g502


----------



## subreach87

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *majnu*
> 
> Ever heard of sponsorship?


Ever hear that c9 is sponsored by Logitech?


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *subreach87*
> 
> Ever hear that c9 is sponsored by Logitech?


LOL







Some people just don't think.

C9 even has the Logitech G logo on their shirt ...


----------



## zaQon

My g502 shows http://i.gyazo.com/17a4d0e7f810c71d2b8b3897465fe152.png 2649hz. Why? Im bad at googling I guess.


----------



## Pa12a

Never had that problem, it always stayed on 998-1005ishHz if you're curious, just a few peaks at 1050Hz


----------



## qsxcv

make sure u dont have another mouse plugged in
and move it faster


----------



## zaQon

I guess its just a bug for MouseMovementRecorder MarkC on w8.1, on enotus its 997hz max.


----------



## majnu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *subreach87*
> 
> Ever hear that c9 is sponsored by Logitech?


people will play with mice that are comfortable for them regardless if newer models have better sensors?


----------



## Phreec

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *subreach87*
> 
> mouse for the pros, yet c9 cs:go team not using it huh.


Not everyone needs all the extra frills on a mouse, especially for CSGO. N0thing in particular mentioned preferring simpler mice.


----------



## softskiller

Logitech Gaming Software 8.70.315 released some days ago

"Bug fix for LGS hang with G502 mouse" and other fixes.

No more auto bonjour install.

It's bugged, can't assign mouse buttons because the overlay does not match the buttons.

And it also installs a Logitech CPU temperature monitoring driver/service.
Pain to delete this via device manager (non-pnp) and registry till the sys doesn't show up in driverview anymore.

It also adds a new Logitech Gaming Software Joystick Translation Driver
to the old Logitech Wingman Virtual Bus Enumerator Driver and GamePanel Virtual HID Device Driver. What bloatware, just to adjust the mouse!


----------



## Huzzaa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zaQon*
> 
> My g502 shows http://i.gyazo.com/17a4d0e7f810c71d2b8b3897465fe152.png 2649hz. Why? Im bad at googling I guess.


It happens on my rig as well, only when playing a game though and it is running on the side.

I've rarely noticed it recently though but when I run it on desktop without anything else. It's smooth 999-1002Hz. Starts running around 950-1050 when I start playing but it doesn't really bother me, at least it feels consistent all the time with the odd but rare spikes here and there.

Although, I do have to test it again since I haven't done it for a while. Also promised to post a pic on another thread about it but forgot







.

Anyways.

What do the guys who use the .28mm addons think of the feel to it?

I'm considering a purchase as well, I got my mouse in Novemeber 2013 IIRC and I don't think it was the batch that had the issue with peeling-off fixed, although I've not yet managed to peel em off.
Keeping that in mind, I am between .6 or .28, would like more feedback though







.


----------



## Falkentyne

The 0.28 addons (Only use these if your original feet are good and not peeling off or something) can help raise the distance to the mouse pad so the ridged underside (horrible design!) doesn't touch/scratch the mouse pad quite as easily, when the mouse is tilted.

They're also nice to have on third party feet that can wear down quickly even if they maintain a great glide (like hotline game F4 competition).

They're cheap so grab a couple along with the 0.6mm hotline games feet too.


----------



## softskiller

Is this normal, that the G502 is capable of USB 2.0 but runs at USB 1.1 speed - even when 1000Hz is used?

HWinfo64


----------



## ChromeBeauty

Hi guys just got the g502 and wanted to ask some questions about it before testing it thoroughly.

- Just me or does it glide better without the bottom cover? I'm using a soft Zowie Spawn pad.

- Even without bottom cover I think that new/additional mouse feet could improve gliding but are there any at all for these strangely shaped feet?

- What port would be recommended to connect to, USB 2 or 3?

- Do I need any software to start or will it properly work without software?

- Mouse wheel oh boy, it sounds awful loud, is very heavy, rasterization seems very hard while it runs for hours when using no raster and givinbg it a slight spin, and the wheel tilts left and right when fast moving left/right, just wonder if there are any mods that can be made to improve the mouse wheel.

- Sniper button, not just me that has to change grip to reach it? Just wonder why they didn't place it bellow the forward thumb button. Any mods to reach it comfortable?

Cheers


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChromeBeauty*
> 
> Hi guys just got the g502 and wanted to ask some questions about it before testing it thoroughly.
> 
> - Just me or does it glide better without the bottom cover? I'm using a soft Zowie Spawn pad.
> *Which button cover ?*
> 
> - Even without bottom cover I think that new/additional mouse feet could improve gliding but are there any at all for these strangely shaped feet?
> *It could as some checked, the ability not to band the mouse to the right or left keeping it straight.*
> 
> - What port would be recommended to connect to, USB 2 or 3?
> *USB 2.0 preferred as everyone will recommend that, but you can test it as some saw improvement with USB3.0*
> 
> - Do I need any software to start or will it properly work without software?
> *you will need to install the drivers first LGS_8.70.315_x64_Logitech and disable the profiles 2 and 3 , with profile 1 choose 1000 hz and the DPI you want.*
> 
> - Mouse wheel oh boy, it sounds awful loud, is very heavy, rasterization seems very hard while it runs for hours when using no raster and givinbg it a slight spin, and the wheel tilts left and right when fast moving left/right, just wonder if there are any mods that can be made to improve the mouse wheel.
> 
> - Sniper button, not just me that has to change grip to reach it? Just wonder why they didn't place it bellow the forward thumb button. Any mods to reach it comfortable?
> *Not that I know of*
> 
> Cheers


----------



## ChromeBeauty

Thanks
I mean the *Bottom* cover, where the additional weights comes in, the mouse seems to glide a bit better and I wonder if that comes only from the feet on the side that is removed with the cover or if the bottom maybe slightly touches the surface of the pad.


----------



## Huzzaa

I don't know I use the mouse in usb 3.0 and it seemingly works better.

I mean, with 2.0 it reports much more erratic reports on mousemovementrecorder. But 3.0 reports a steady 997-1003 hz when you're doing nothing.
Depends from the system I guess. There are many variables. IRQ assignments are the first thing that comes to mind as mine shares #16 with a lot of stuff if I put it in 2.0 ports but the 3.0 is operating in MSI and doesn't seem to have issues with it.


----------



## doors1991

x7007 do you use the surface tuning ?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doors1991*
> 
> x7007 do you use the surface tuning ?


no, prefer not too, it adds some weird delay. but I keep checking it while changing. currently I am without logitech drivers.


----------



## ChromeBeauty

Since ever I was using mice with rather few buttons, I would say the Razer Deathadder was the one with the most buttons so forgive me if the next passage sounds rather dumb.
.
Now the G502 has a lot more buttons but what I don't get is, why aren't all buttons directly mappable like on a Joystick?
I got a Joystick with many buttons and in a game I can usual map them directly, but on the g502 there are a bunch of buttons that are only for profile or DPI change and I can only use them free if I assign a key command to them.
This is even more strange when seeing that I can change the mouse function for those buttons to things like volume up/down or next/previous track.
Why not simply make them mouse button x like they did with the forward/backward buttons that are designated in a game as Mouse Button 4 and 5.


----------



## Falkentyne

Ask Bill Gates this question.
This has nothing to do with Logitech.
And everything to to do with windows. Windows only recognizes mouse button 1, 2, middle mouse, forward, back.


----------



## ChromeBeauty

Really?! Hard to believe if you see that the newer versions of windows add support for things like a touch screen but treat mice like it's still 1999.
Does not even W10 change this?


----------



## toatoa

The technology just isn't there yet.


----------



## ChromeBeauty

Not there to support more than 5 mouse buttons? Sounds like a cheap excuse when joystick can support a seemingly unlimited number of buttons.

Anyhow having used the 502 for some days now it feels like it has a bad impact in my wrist, I guess the weight and bad mouse feet have an impact here.

I guess it's futile to ask but can I remove some weight without dealing permanent damage to the mouse?
For now all I did was to remove the bottom cover.

Also are there fitting mouse feet for the 502 that make it better glide? Maybe something as good as the hyperglides?


----------



## Phreec

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChromeBeauty*
> 
> Not there to support more than 5 mouse buttons? Sounds like a cheap excuse when joystick can support a seemingly unlimited number of buttons.


Apples and oranges.

Besides it's hardly a problem when there's ways around it I.e. binding additional buttons to keys and macros.

With the help of the G-shift or whatever the modifier thing is called I'm able to control my music player extensively with one hand while at the same time casually browsing the net or other desktop tasks; It essentially doubles the available keybinds.


----------



## ChromeBeauty

You mean the DPI Shift button or what button?


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChromeBeauty*
> 
> You mean the DPI Shift button or what button?


G-shift, When pressed it changes all other button, effectively doubles the key avaiable


----------



## ChromeBeauty

I understood that already but where is this G-Shift button???


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChromeBeauty*
> 
> I understood that already but where is this G-Shift button???




Not in default setting, you have to assign which button you wish to be the g-shift button specificily.


----------



## ChromeBeauty

Ah thanks, that will surely be helpful.


----------



## FreeElectron

What happens when you hit mouse malfunction speed?


----------



## qsxcv

it malfunctions


----------



## doomleika

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> it malfunctions


+rep

Usually there's two type of malfunction

1. It freaks out and put your camera to sky or floor
2. Werid tracking behavior happens, usually in a for of mouse acceleration


----------



## qsxcv

http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/3560#post_24211504

this is the type of malfunction you get from moving it too fast. i don't think it snaps to the floor it just stops tracking. forgot to check ycounts to make sure though.
there's also the spinning bug that some people get... my g303 doesn't have it


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr. Obvious*
> 
> it malfunctions


I knew that it malfunctions, lol
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomleika*
> 
> +rep
> 
> Usually there's two type of malfunction
> 
> 1. *It freaks out and put your camera to sky* or floor
> 2. Werid tracking behavior happens, usually in a for of mouse acceleration


hmm..
That means I hit malfunction speed while playing battlefield hardline.


----------



## qsxcv

then youre getting the bug.... not the nominal malfunction behavior at ~8m/s


----------



## Phreec

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> hmm..
> That means I hit malfunction speed while playing battlefield hardline.


have you used the surface calibration feature, it's known to cause the ballerina bug.

Set it to factory default to fix it and make sure there's no hairs or anything stuck in the sensor.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phreec*
> 
> have you used the surface calibration feature, it's known to cause the ballerina bug.
> 
> Set it to factory default to fix it and make sure there's no hairs or anything stuck in the sensor.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> then youre getting the bug.... not the nominal malfunction behavior at ~8m/s


It only happened once.
In an intensive game and i was trying (Just trying, not succeeding







) to aim like this guy


----------



## softskiller

I start to think that this bug is a CS:GO thing.

Got it now with some cheap Sharkoon mouse (since I returned my G502).

I also never got this in other games like BF3/4.

And people with other mice also report this problem in CS:GO.

I also noticed that it's more likely to occur with a scoping weapon like the SG553 or AUG while unscoped.


----------



## doors1991

"I start to think that this bug is a CS:GO thing."

this happens also in cs 1.6.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *softskiller*
> 
> I start to think that this bug is a CS:GO thing.
> 
> Got it now with some cheap Sharkoon mouse (since I returned my G502).
> 
> I also never got this in other games like BF3/4.
> 
> And people with other mice also report this problem in CS:GO.
> 
> I also noticed that it's more likely to occur with a scoping weapon like the SG553 or AUG while unscoped.


It's not.
The only reason you notice it spinning by itself in cs:go is because the engine loses control due to the random mouse inputs.
You can reproduce this on the windows desktop but it won't manifest itself the same way. It will simply show the mouse drifting up or down erratically when moving it In a straight line.

You can instantly reproduce this on the desktop or in windows paint if you are using a cloth pad (NOT a metal/hard/aluminum pad):
Just set the surface to G440 hard gaming pad, then you'll see it. It won't "spin" but you will see erratic movement.
(you can also try g240 cloth pad, but this may or may not cause issues on the G502 and will not cause issues on the G303 (for some reason the calibration defaults for G240 are different on g502 compared to G303, even though the sensor is the same).


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> because the engine loses control due to the random mouse inputs.


to clarify, the csgo engine doesn't do anything wrong. the reason you don't see it on the desktop is 1. you move the mouse 10x slower on the desktop 2. if it screws up and the cursor flies towards the bottom or something, it will just go to the screen edge which isn't very noticeable.


----------



## x7007

By the way if you are looking for Mouse Feet I've found cheaper than the guy here in overclock who sell it in ebay, I'm sorry that I have to do it but he really take way more money than the others who sell it cheaper, way cheaper. G502 Mouse

Both of them sell the same mouse feet Hotline feet, all type performance and competition. They are the cheapest you could find on all ebay

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-4-Set-Hotline-Games-Performance-Competition-Mouse-Feet-For-Logitech-G502-/201331122645?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&var=&hash=item2ee04521d5

http://www.ebay.com/itm/0-28-0-6mm-Hotline-Games-Performance-Competition-Mouse-Feet-For-Logitech-G502-/131487535178?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&var=&hash=item1e9d44904a


----------



## ChromeBeauty

Thanks but it doesn't help much if he doesn't ship to Germany.


----------



## Kitarist

I would like to ask how good is the mouse for claw grippers especially for those who had it for quite some time


----------



## Omega215d

I don't find doing that to be very comfortable. It's a bit on the larger side and is a bit heavy so palm and some fingertip gripping are the way to go.


----------



## Kitarist

Which other mice are then more suitable for the claw grip well the reason i'm asking is that i saw some replies where people say that G502 is great for claw gripers also so i just want to make sure if thats true before i buy it


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kitarist*
> 
> Which other mice are then more suitable for the claw grip well the reason i'm asking is that i saw some replies where people say that G502 is great for claw gripers also so i just want to make sure if thats true before i buy it


Yeah, it works fine for a claw grip. My normal grip is a claw/palm hybrid, but I have no real problems if I try to switch to a true claw grip.


----------



## Kitarist

Right now i still have MX518 but to be honest my perfomance with it was never so good, i had even better perfomance with classic cheap mice. Its a good mouse but really weird to use with claw grip i did get used to it but imho its not made for claw gripers so i dont want to make the same decision as i did with mx518


----------



## Phreec

Something really weird is happening after a PC crash...

I've had my mouse at 400 CPI since I got it and just recently, after experiencing a PC crash (or maybe a Win 10 auto-update) my CPI is DOUBLED to 800 CPI in-game 3D space.
In Windows desktop and in-game menus it's fine, still 400 but once in-game first-person view in both CSGO and Planetside 2 the sens is at 800 for some odd reason.
I even enabled "Per profile pointer setting" in the Gaming Software and set all games to 400 but to no avail.

No idea what the hell is going on


----------



## Noismo

It's don't make not only for clawgrippers, but almost for humans. Another futuristic design from hell. LoL.


----------



## LocutusH

Is there really no working G software for win10?
I am reading everywhere, that the older windows versions of the G software are causing BSOD, but there is no new... ?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LocutusH*
> 
> Is there really no working G software for win10?
> I am reading everywhere, that the older windows versions of the G software are causing BSOD, but there is no new... ?


I dont have bsod because the g software . I never had because of it. I really didnt have bsod for like 3 years I think . not from the normal uses. I might had couple but because software faults or drivers bugs.


----------



## LocutusH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> I dont have bsod because the g software . I never had because of it. I really didnt have bsod for like 3 years I think . not from the normal uses. I might had couple but because software faults or drivers bugs.


Seems to be a new issue in combination with Z170 chipsets.


----------



## Phreec

I'm on a Z170 but I doubt it's the G software caused my BSODs during my unstable OC tests. Haven't had any BSOD during normal use though.


----------



## majnu

Works fine with windows 10 for me


----------



## MisterMiller

Hey guys! I have g402. I wanted g502 but it is to expensive for me and I still want it. I am just wondering are there between g502 and g402 so much different sensor qualty or etc?. So if there are I will refund for g402 and trying to buy g502.


----------



## EasyC

I can't seem to replicate the horizontal scroll settings I have setup in on-board mode into auto detect mode.

I have numpad + and numpad - as scroll left and right which works correctly in on-board mode but wont work in auto detect mode. Any ideas?


----------



## x7007

Did everyone got the new firmware update ? with the new LGS version


----------



## doors1991

i did,works great now.


----------



## ChromeBeauty

What changed?


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MisterMiller*
> 
> Hey guys! I have g402. I wanted g502 but it is to expensive for me and I still want it. I am just wondering are there between g502 and g402 so much different sensor qualty or etc?. So if there are I will refund for g402 and trying to buy g502.


It won't be mind blowing stark. You're still limited by skill. If you don't mind the heavier weight then go for it. Otherwise you're fine with the lighter G402. It still tracks well enough.


----------



## majnu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Did everyone got the new firmware update ? with the new LGS version


There was one on 31st Aug and another on 3rs Sep, what differences are there in the Sep one?


----------



## Falkentyne

Might be a bugfix. Previous firmware updates would refuse to flash if your FW were already up to date. This one just flashes even if its already flashed. Also had it refuse to flash even if the mouse was unplugged and replugged (sometimes).


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *majnu*
> 
> There was one on 31st Aug and another on 3rs Sep, what differences are there in the Sep one?


Some issue with intermittent tracking or whatever it's called the mouse goes crazy. they fixed it


----------



## STRATEGY

Just installed the sep one . I didnt notice the difference and firmware based on 31st aug

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ufasas

there are 6 units of g502 on ebay.co.uk for 20 pounds + 4 pounds postage for royal mail 2nd class, dunno if they are sending them to other countries, but i grabbed another one for a backup, as long as they were 20 units used in a tournament, so basicly new (45-50 vs 20 gbp! FFS! ) http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Logitech-G502-Optical-Gaming-Mouse-/171920324367?hash=item28073ff70f


----------



## majnu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> Might be a bugfix. Previous firmware updates would refuse to flash if your FW were already up to date. This one just flashes even if its already flashed. Also had it refuse to flash even if the mouse was unplugged and replugged (sometimes).


Ah this is probably why. Anyway I've updated to the Sep one just in case.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Some issue with intermittent tracking or whatever it's called the mouse goes crazy. they fixed it


It was fixed in the Aug one, I should know I've been pestering Logitech for a year about it


----------



## Falkentyne

Sep software version is a LGS bugfix. There were some graphical and other issues in the august version. Firmware is 100% identical.


----------



## STRATEGY

is there any video tutorial to reduce g502 weight?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## plyr

I managed to open the g502 without ruining the skatez by punching holes through the skatez. Inside I removed 1 or 2 screws and the magnet, then I glued the bottom door. With this the mouse lost about 3 grams...

This link helped with the oppening: http://blog.siddv.net/2014/09/logitech-g502-proteus-core-teardown.html


----------



## plyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Thunderbringer*
> 
> I plan to do the same (once i get the g502, probably in 1-2 weeks), but i dont think that the sidebuttons PCB weighs that much - however less weight is less weight
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . Did not someone mention that the weight door is around 7 grams?
> 
> Also here is a pic of a g500 wheel, as it is now it weighs 11.5 grams. Swapping the metal part with plastic should result in 3-4 grams for the wheel alone. However the g502 wheel looks heavier, has someone the exact weight?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


The wheel alone, without the plastic case is 13 grams on G502.


----------



## plyr

So, I finalized the modding here, the only problem with this mouse is the scrollwheel really, its too heavy and makes noises when I swipe the mouse. So I managed to adapt the scroll from my G302, I lost the profile changing buttom from the G502, so the top 2 buttons are now holes and the wheel is now rubber and the spin of it is a bit stiff because of my adaptation, but the mouse3 buttom and left/right click works. So with the original 13g wheel and the magnet out of the mouse, the weight is now 107 grams.

I'l post a picture tomorow.


----------



## plyr

pics:


----------



## Ufasas

a good one, i want to do the same with a 2nd g502 i ordered, before disasembling do you think this mouse's wheel would fit into g502?


----------



## plyr

Its a bit hard to adapt, because the original scroll is one of a kind, I had to make the hole of one side of the plastic case that fits the scroll bigger...

One thing is for sure, it needs to be logitech scroll because of the stripe pattern they have...


----------



## Ufasas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plyr*
> 
> One thing is for sure, it needs to be logitech scroll because of the stripe pattern they have...


I see, might be risky mod, but oh well : P Would there be any other alternative scroll wheels similar to g402?


----------



## plyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> I see, might be risky mod, but oh well : P Would there be any other alternative scroll wheels similar to g402?


The g302 is the cheaper you can get for this new type I think , but scrolls from all logitech mice can be adapted into the socket with the right tools...









The original g502 scroll is heavy and rattles anyway, so Its hard to make the mouse worse than that... ;p


----------



## plyr

Anyone knows if the surface calibration stays active if I remove the driver?


----------



## qsxcv

probably, each surface calibration setting consists of just 2 bytes actually...
you can figure out by using the g440 preset on a cloth pad so that it doesn't track at all, and removing the driver


----------



## Derp

Nice work plyr. A straight upgrade in my opinion and one step closer to what the G502 should have been.


----------



## Arc0s

Wow great work, I think I'll sacrifice my g302 and do the same thing to my g502 since the only thing I don't like about the mouse is the weight.


----------



## Arc0s

So, I opened the g302 and the wheel is different from the g502; no idea how to adapt it maybe @plyr can post some pics







. What I ended up doing was grinding down the metal part from a g500 wheel and using some 3m epoxy to mold a new wheel, doesn't look very pretty but it works. So with the new "wheel" and the bottom door removed ( I was already using the mouse without it ) I was able to bring it down to around 113g not so light but feels a lot better than what it used to weigh.


----------



## plyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Arc0s*
> 
> So, I opened the g302 and the wheel is different from the g502; no idea how to adapt it maybe @plyr can post some pics
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . What I ended up doing was grinding down the metal part from a g500 wheel and using some 3m epoxy to mold a new wheel, doesn't look very pretty but it works. So with the new "wheel" and the bottom door removed ( I was already using the mouse without it ) I was able to bring it down to around 113g not so light but feels a lot better than what it used to weigh.


I drilled the left hole of the acrylic that holds the wheel with a screw gun, its easy to do this with the right tip, but to get the right size for different types of wheels is hard, and you have to put it in to see if its good enough, but eventually this could brake the acrylic.
I also removed the white plastic of the blue led, the middle buttons that hold the dpi changing profile, and some minor screws and some more plastic underneath the G plastic plate that closes the top of the mouse to get the mouse to about 108grams... The good part is that I'm still using the bottom plate, so from the outside the mouse doesn't look modded at all...

I think that with the right tools I could get the mouse to be even lighter, but 108 grams is ok to me now...


----------



## Arc0s

Oh I see, thanks for the help I'll definitely try it!


----------



## NicoNicoNii

Just got this mouse today, was using a G303, and I gotta say, this mouse seems a lot more accurate for some reason. Maybe because it's heavier so I can track targets better or something? I've been going HAM in games with this mouse.


----------



## iceskeleton

Perhaps, what is your sens?


----------



## NicoNicoNii

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iceskeleton*
> 
> Perhaps, what is your sens?


I use 800 dpi, 1.8 in CS:GO and 8% in BF4.


----------



## Cool Blue

Hey, I think this may have been answered before in this thread, but it's almost 100 pages long D:. Anyways, I noticed that because of the weight of the mouse it had an incredible amount of static friction on my razer goliathus speed, which I didn't get as much on my g400s. I purchased a g440 hard pad but I thought it was too small and the edges where very sharp. This combo meant that the mousepad was starting to peel the g502 feet off. The glide was good though, but I would have liked a bit more control. After I had smoothed out the edges of the g440 with some sand paper it's glide was a lot slower, I had killed it. So now I'm looking for a new mousepad which hs the speed of hard but with a bit more control and is compatible with the g502. I've looked at the artisan hayate tr/p, the zowie gtf x, the artisan shidenkai mid, the qpad HeatOn xl, the artisan shiden and the artisan raiden.

In conclusion which of these pads do you recommend?


----------



## Phreec

I can recommend the Zowie Swift if you're after a hardmat. I'm not sure how easily available they are but I've been using one for 4 years(!) now and it's still working great.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plyr*
> 
> pics:


I really want the mouse to be lighter but, i do use the mouse wheel (on both modes) a lot.


----------



## plyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> I really want the mouse to be lighter but, i do use the mouse wheel (on both modes) a lot.


I got it even lighter, is 104 grams now, if you could make it lighter and keep the metal wheel, the mouse would be too heavy on the front...


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plyr*
> 
> I got it even lighter, is 104 grams now, if you could make it lighter and keep the metal wheel, the mouse would be too heavy on the front...


I guess I'll have to keep using it the way it is.


----------



## mtzgr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cool Blue*
> 
> Hey, I think this may have been answered before in this thread, but it's almost 100 pages long D:. Anyways, I noticed that because of the weight of the mouse it had an incredible amount of static friction on my razer goliathus speed, which I didn't get as much on my g400s. I purchased a g440 hard pad but I thought it was too small and the edges where very sharp. This combo meant that the mousepad was starting to peel the g502 feet off. The glide was good though, but I would have liked a bit more control. After I had smoothed out the edges of the g440 with some sand paper it's glide was a lot slower, I had killed it. So now I'm looking for a new mousepad which hs the speed of hard but with a bit more control and is compatible with the g502. I've looked at the artisan hayate tr/p, the zowie gtf x, the artisan shidenkai mid, the qpad HeatOn xl, the artisan shiden and the artisan raiden.
> 
> In conclusion which of these pads do you recommend?


Razer Sphex. I think it has just the right amount of control while still being fast. Only downside is that it's paper thin so this may not work for you. It's width is about half and inch smaller than the 440, so this might be a problem as well. The thinness started to bother me after a while and I've been using the 440 which I agree, doesn't have enough control, but since I flick like crazy with high sensitivity it's ok for my playstyle. I think you should definitely try the Sphex, only $15 if you don't like it.


----------



## Ufasas

Logitech G602 wheel into g502, what ya think?


----------



## plyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> Logitech G602 wheel into g502, what ya think?


If the acrylic support for the wheel is the same, would be a perfect switch...


----------



## xmouse

Hey guys, I just bought a G502. However, the scroll wheel creates this rattling sound when I move the mouse, especially when the wheel is in free scroll mode. Is anyone else experiencing this issue of a loose horizontal scroll wheel or should I replace it for a new one? Any reply would be appreciated, thanks!


----------



## ChromeBeauty

That's n ormal I would say, I hear rattling only when it's free.
If it's locked I only hear it when I move very strong and have no finger on the wheel.


----------



## xmouse

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChromeBeauty*
> 
> That's n ormal I would say, I hear rattling only when it's free.
> If it's locked I only hear it when I move very strong and have no finger on the wheel.


Thanks for the reply! I thought I got a defected product, but seeing that it's normal, I guess I'll deal with it. Apart from that problem, the G502 is one of the best mouses I've ever used.


----------



## QuickFix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChromeBeauty*
> 
> That's n ormal I would say, I hear rattling only when it's free.
> If it's locked I only hear it when I move very strong and have no finger on the wheel.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xmouse*
> 
> Thanks for the reply! I thought I got a defected product, but seeing that it's normal, I guess I'll deal with it. Apart from that problem, the G502 is one of the best mouses I've ever used.


Hate to burst your bubbles, but I've had mine a little over a year, and no rattle or anything else. It's what I would call perfect. Perhaps I was a lucky one, since there's many reports of defects concerning the scroll wheel. Google it. So both of you may have defective ones.


----------



## ChromeBeauty

G303 had also the trouble with mouse wheels sometimes rattling, I think it depended on the production batch.
But as I said in normal use it doesn't rattle because a finger usually rest on it.

I really don't care for a replacement as the wheel is the biggest crap on this mouse or any other mouse because I still don't get what this heavy metal monster has to do there, who ever is responsible seems to have deliberately sabotaged this mouse.

Personally I rather replace the wheel with another normal Logitech wheel, some post back some guys already did it.
I guess a thread should be started to find the best replacement wheel to make the 502 what it should have been from the start.


----------



## pinobot

Got my G502 today.
First impression: nice.








I like pretty much everything about the mouse, the weight is something i have to get used to, especially in-game. The extra buttons compared to the G303 are welcome, i can reach the sniper button using palmgrip so no problem there.
The mousewheel clicks when turning it feel more pronounced than the G303, with the G303 a lot of time i couldn't count the number of steps when in-game overshooting it because in fact there are too many steps when turning the wheel once. The mousewheel also feels very slippery and when i turn it fast it feels as if the momentum wants to keep the mouse turning just one more notch. The wheel feels taller than that of the G303 but it's actually pretty much the same height, the downwards sloped left and right click buttons add to the height.
One way to solve the problem would be to use a lathe and make the diameter of the wheel 3 mm smaller and make a groove in the side to lose the weight.
Still a very nice mouse, i think i suits my playing style in BF4 a lot better than de G303.


----------



## drotahorror

I know this is going to sound ridiculous and some sort of user error, but I've gone through 3 G502's. I've had multiple mice and never had any issues with them. Only ever wanted to upgrade to something different.

My first G502 (fully updated firmware, all of them), had no power after 2 weeks. I leave my computer on and only turn the monitor off. Woke up, I turned my monitor on and the g502 had no power anymore. Didn't work in any other PC or USB port or console. 2nd G502. It lasted about 4 months. Same thing happened. Woke up, turned monitor on, no more power on the g502. The first one I got a refund from amazon. The 2nd one I decided to RMA it. Logitech didn't even ask for the broken mouse, they just sent me a new one which I definitely respect that. Sadly, the new g502 lasted 3 days. These are on different USB ports as well. (I am not sure if the mouse had power prior to turning on the monitor, it's just second nature to turn the monitor on and grab the mouse)

Love the mouse, best one I've ever used. Something is seriously wrong in my setup to have jacked up 3 of them though. I'm using steelseries mouse at the moment and have had no issues. Also never had any issues with my G17 keyboard, my MX518, or Razor mice. I might try and buy a new one when I build a new PC. Love that mouse


----------



## TK421

Have anyone tried the new firmware for G502?

I'm still on 88.2.16, not sure if I should update.

@r0ach - what's your say on this? More input lag or?

Especially after reading this http://utmalesoldiers.blogspot.jp/2015/10/logitech-g502trackinglag.html


----------



## pinobot

Played some Battlefield 4 last night.
I really wanted so much to like the G502 more than the G303 but somehow the size and weight of the G303 has grown on me, so after some time playing with the G502 i grabbed the G303 again.
Another observation, the buttons felt different although they require the same amount of force to press, with the G502 i regulatory stop pressing the left and right mouse button while holding it down, don't know why,maybe i'm too preoccupied with throwing this weight around.
This morning the G502 didn't want to wake up next to the G303, Restarting Windows didn't help, i had to re-plug the mouse to get it to work again.
When i hold the G502 upside down (who does that?) the left and right mouse buttons are loose, whereas the G303 buttons are tight.
I'm so sad right now.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Have anyone tried the new firmware for G502?
> 
> I'm still on 88.2.16, not sure if I should update.
> 
> @r0ach - what's your say on this? More input lag or?
> 
> Especially after reading this http://utmalesoldiers.blogspot.jp/2015/10/logitech-g502trackinglag.html


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*


?


----------



## jjpjimmy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> ?


I'm certain it is this line that the facepalm is addressing.
Quote:


> r0ach - what's your say on this? More input lag or?


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> Have anyone tried the new firmware for G502?
> 
> I'm still on 88.2.16, not sure if I should update.


everyone has tried it and no one has complained about anything
Quote:


> @r0ach - what's your say on this? More input lag or?
> 
> Especially after reading this http://utmalesoldiers.blogspot.jp/2015/10/logitech-g502trackinglag.html


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> everyone has tried it and no one has complained about anything


well I have to ask the mouse jesus for an opinion


----------



## fuzzybass

After reading news of the Proteus Spectrum, and how it's lighter by 6 grams, I just realized how Logitech would have had an enormous hit on their hands if they just kept the mouse lighter to around 100g or less.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> After reading news of the Proteus Spectrum, and how it's lighter by 6 grams, I just realized how Logitech would have had an enormous hit on their hands if they just kept the mouse lighter to around 100g or less.


Been debating picking one up and cutting it's weight as much as I can. Still working on my 85g DA 3G, god knows I don't need to start another project at this point.

Edit: Alright turns out I didnt have much left to do with the Dremel. It's 85g without cable and 90 grams(Damn heavy scroll wheel and cable







) with it now. Sacrifices were made but it's useable now


----------



## KFieLd

Oddly enough, if you search "Logitech Proteus Spectrum" -- there's a thread on the Logitech forums by who I would assume is the same guy from the original reddit threads. It's now been removed from the Logitech forums. Lol wonder what that means.

Where did you hear it's 6 grams lighter?


----------



## Maximillion

Logi likely doesn't want info for an unannounced product floating around, as minor as the changes may be.


----------



## TK421

It's just an RGB version of the G502

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Z_iyjIBr4YAJ:https://forums.logitech.com/t5/Logitech-G-Mice/I-bought-a-logitech-G502-Spectrum-Huuuh/td-p/1448162+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

As useless as it may be, RGB will still attract idiots.


----------



## hza

RGB/lighting in general is as preference as side buttons are. Calling people idiots because of their preferences describes exactly what you are.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> It's just an RGB version of the G502
> 
> http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Z_iyjIBr4YAJ:https://forums.logitech.com/t5/Logitech-G-Mice/I-bought-a-logitech-G502-Spectrum-Huuuh/td-p/1448162+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
> 
> As useless as it may be, RGB will still attract idiots.


As crazy as it seems there are people out there that like to turn the lights off and stare at the pretty RGB lights on their peripherals instead of using them.

For an example:






Logitech just wants in on that high profit action.


----------



## KFieLd

^^ - Which is something I'll never understand considering the only parts of the G502 shell that light-up are either covered by your hand, or in a place that make them barely visible.. so *** is the point. I mean if they had mice similar to something like a Roccat XTD with it's "border" of lights around the mouse that you can actually see while palming it, then fine.. or even the scroll wheel, or side-buttons lighting up (why hasn't a company done this yet I wonder?) but no, a tiny little G logo on the back of the mouse that gets covered, and those little arrows near your thumb that reference dpi level.

I admit, I am a fan of RGB in keyboard applications, but that's because it's so much more useful, especially if you're like me and find yourself doing a lot of typing in the dark... or being able to have your relevant FPS keys like WASD/Shift/Control, etc etc lit up in a different color. To me that makes much more sense than using RGB on a mouse... but hey, blame razer. They're the ones who made this stuff trendy. At least in my mind.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KFieLd*
> 
> ^^ - Which is something I'll never understand considering the only parts of the G502 shell that light-up are either covered by your hand, or in a place that make them barely visible.. so *** is the point. I mean if they had mice similar to something like a Roccat XTD with it's "border" of lights around the mouse that you can actually see while palming it, then fine.. or even the scroll wheel, or side-buttons lighting up (why hasn't a company done this yet I wonder?) but no, a tiny little G logo on the back of the mouse that gets covered, and those little arrows near your thumb that reference dpi level.
> 
> I admit, I am a fan of RGB in keyboard applications, but that's because it's so much more useful, especially if you're like me and find yourself doing a lot of typing in the dark... or being able to have your relevant FPS keys like WASD/Shift/Control, etc etc lit up in a different color. To me that makes much more sense than using RGB on a mouse... but hey, blame razer. They're the ones who made this stuff trendy. At least in my mind.


Maybe if the G502 RGB has less weight I'll buy it.

I turn the LED off on the G502 now.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KFieLd*
> 
> Oddly enough, if you search "Logitech Proteus Spectrum" -- there's a thread on the Logitech forums by who I would assume is the same guy from the original reddit threads. It's now been removed from the Logitech forums. Lol wonder what that means.
> 
> Where did you hear it's 6 grams lighter?


From here:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/3oty01/i_thought_i_bought_a_g502_proteus_core/cw1pigh


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> From here:
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/3oty01/i_thought_i_bought_a_g502_proteus_core/cw1pigh


6 grams sounds like it could very well be a human error in measuring.


----------



## fuzzybass

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TK421*
> 
> 6 grams sounds like it could very well be a human error in measuring.


Sure. But my point still stands... if the G502 was lighter, or if they would just re-release the thing with a lighter weight, Logitech would have had a major hit on their hands.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fuzzybass*
> 
> Sure. But my point still stands... if the G502 was lighter, or if they would just re-release the thing with a lighter weight, Logitech would have had a major hit on their hands.


They tried to release a 3366 mouse that is lighter than the G502.
so, they release the G303. It was in fact lighter but, they messed up the shape









So you can now choose between not-so-good shape or a heavier mouse.


----------



## plyr

I dont think so, my 104 grams G502 is back on its box, even with 104g, its a dense mouse, feels heavier than the 106g G402...

I have the G302 also, and its dificult to play with, the buttons are too sensitive, I keep hitting mouse2 by mistake all the time, and also cramps, its a heavy mouse for this size...

One mouse that replace the g303 nicely is the Evga X5 Optical or even the Abyssus2k14 if you tapefix it correctly.


----------



## pinobot

I received a set of Hotline Games Competition Level skates from Ebay today.
This makes a world of difference, i just can't believe how bad the original skates are.
The originals are no better than cellophane tape.









Interesting fact: i didn't check this with the original skates but when used on a hard mat the skates around the sensor and the one under the thumbrest don't touch the surface. I checked this on an glass Icemat and the difference for the thumbrest is about 0.1mm (the thickness of one sheet of printer paper).


----------



## DrSebWilkes

I'm really not sure if I want this mouse because it would mean getting used to a new mouse, which for someone with Dispraxia is harder than it ought to be :/

Anyway, my main questions are:


How good are the switches used here?
Or, rather, does the click feel satisfactory?
I have fairly good reaction times, and I just wonder if my Rival's pre-travel may be slightly increasing the time it takes for the computer to register a click - or rather, would this mouse with a more lighter feel-of-switch make reaction shots any easier?

Also, I can't help but ask how much the wieght impeeds the use of the mouse? I mean, if if 150g feels heavy, then maybe the gym is required?







[But, I do understand more weight, more momentum. ]

Oh, should I wait for the release of this prophesied RBG version of the G502?


----------



## qsxcv

switches are very good, similar to g303's.
Quote:


> I have fairly good reaction times, and I just wonder if my Rival's pre-travel may be slightly increasing the time it takes for the computer to register a click - or rather, would this mouse with a more lighter feel-of-switch make reaction shots any easier?


depends, probably a little bit.
Quote:


> Also, I can't help but ask how much the wieght impeeds the use of the mouse?


depends on what you're used to.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> depends on what you're used to.


Rival @ 128g while this is 154g or something like that from memory.

Thanks anyway! To be honest, I'm more after seeing if SteelSeries will actually get more stock of the Rival Fade, but if they don't before I get my stuff for Christmas, I won't be unhapy to settle for a G502


----------



## FreeElectron

The G02's wegith is 121 gm for the mouse only.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Ooooh I forgot to ask:

Does the G502's Cable fit in the Zowie Camade?


----------



## hza

I would wait for the RGB version, but that's only because I like RGB even though it's just the logo.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

So you're saying to not go
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> I received a set of Hotline Games Competition Level skates from Ebay today.
> This makes a world of difference, i just can't believe how bad the original skates are.
> The originals are no better than cellophane tape.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting fact: i didn't check this with the original skates but when used on a hard mat the skates around the sensor and the one under the thumbrest don't touch the surface. I checked this on an glass Icemat and the difference for the thumbrest is about 0.1mm (the thickness of one sheet of printer paper).


So your advice is to not go ahead with the upgrade, nor even really get the mouse as glide for me is important?


----------



## pinobot

As a gamingmouse i think the G502 is a fail.
Not the glides, not the weight, not the heavy side-scrolling gyro wheel that's hard to press and not the stiff cable are anything i want for a FPS mouse.
Adding colorful lights isn't gonna help it one bit.
It's a great mouse for everything else, scrolling through documents is really nice.


----------



## LocutusH

1.5 years in use here.
Still dont have any problem with the stock feets, nor the weight, or the wheel... or anything else. I still like it. The blue G logo is getting a bit greenish tough


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Hmm I just think as someone with Dispraxia, changing mouse weight and stiffness of buttons will screw my aim up and if I can overcome it, it'll take ages. Franky I spent far too long getting my muscle memory where it is with the Rival.Also it's hard to go through with it because I know some people hate it and some people love it. Damn you Logitech ... With all that wasted power ...

I remember I switched to a hard mousemmat from a cloth and for the following month I couldn't understand why I was so inconsistent. Turns out I simply could not adapt to a lower friction mousemmat and had to go back. RIP £30


----------



## DrSebWilkes

I checked online and I can't find one FPS pro that uses the G502 ... I guess that's because of the weight?

I also guess lighter mouse = better?


----------



## majnu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Some issue with intermittent tracking or whatever it's called the mouse goes crazy. they fixed it


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> I checked online and I can't find one FPS pro that uses the G502 ... I guess that's because of the weight?
> 
> I also guess lighter mouse = better?


I always wondered who are the type of people who fall for "endorsements"
Why don't you judge the mouse on it's merits and then weigh up whether it is right for you? If some pro was paid $10,000 to endorse Razer would you buy it?


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *majnu*
> 
> I always wondered who are the type of people who fall for "endorsements"
> Why don't you judge the mouse on it's merits and then weigh up whether it is right for you? If some pro was paid $10,000 to endorse Razer would you buy it?


No because it's razer









But I'm like the average human, and physics still applies to me: if something is heavy, it's going to have more momentum that would need to be ceased, making flickshots harder.


----------



## hza

Trash talk as usual... Razer isn't any better or worse. Mouse weight also depends on sensitivity. There are people who can't handle (too) light mice because of higher sensitivity (dpi, in-game) as weird as that may sound. Weight matters less on high(er) sensitivity in general. As long as no or noth enough "pro gamer" use a "higher than average" sensitivity, general perception will stay the same.


----------



## majnu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> No because it's razer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But I'm like the average human, and physics still applies to me: if something is heavy, it's going to have more momentum that would need to be ceased, making flickshots harder.


In that case based on weight imho I think that the mouse is heavy for low dpi gaming. Therefore for that reason maybe that is why professional players do not use it.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *majnu*
> 
> In that case based on weight imho I think that the mouse is heavy for low dpi gaming. Therefore for that reason maybe that is why professional players do not use it.


Exactly; and I have a low DPI too ... dragging this beast will be annoying because it would take a lot more force / distance ./ time to stop it, which is not the best thing

I don't get Logitech ... they have the power to totally bolster eSports, and yet they don't!


----------



## hza

Well, you have to consider Logitech sells a lot anyway, probably most. Besides, I assume the majority of people don't play fps games. For most games weight isn't the most imporant factor. As you said yourself, it matters more for low(er) dpi/sensitivity. And last but not least you simply cannot please everyone. Especially when we talk about the G502, kind of Logitech's "high tier wired gaming mouse" or something like that. I think they designed it more for an "all-round gaming environment". If you want something for fps games, G402 suits you more, if you like low dpi and sensitivity. Sure, e-Sports help in terms of marketing, but you have to check, if you wouldn't lose your regular customers and whatnot. I think it's not that simple in the end.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Apparantly not









G402 is a no-no due to the sensor. I'm just riding this boat for the PMW3366 <3


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Apparantly not
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> G402 is a no-no due to the sensor. I'm just riding this boat for the PMW3366 <3


Erm. And what's wrong with the g402 sensor?

I switched from 502 to 402. The weight was the main issue. Sensor wise I think they are equal in terms of feel.

I play lowish sens.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Erm. And what's wrong with the g402 sensor?
> 
> I switched from 502 to 402. The weight was the main issue. Sensor wise I think they are equal in terms of feel.
> 
> I play lowish sens.


It's not a good sensor, it has angle snapping, smoothing (just worse than the PMW 3310 and that's not even the best sensor). It's a good mouse, but I just feel uncomfortable with the idea of less-perfect mouse sensor.

I really am in love with the idea of using the 3366, but I think it'll have to be the g303 because I know a high weight won't be good.

EDIT:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Does the G502's or G303's Cable fit in the Zowie Camade?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> It's not a good sensor, it has angle snapping, smoothing (just worse than the PMW 3310 and that's not even the best sensor). It's a good mouse, but I just feel uncomfortable with the idea of less-perfect mouse sensor.
> 
> I really am in love with the idea of using the 3366, but I think it'll have to be the g303 because I know a high weight won't be good.
> 
> EDIT:


It has no angle snapping.
It has no smoothing below 2000 dpi and 1ms smoothing above it. (3310 has 2-4ms smoothing)
It has no acceleration.

To me - its a better sensor than what 502 has, since it has a higher malfunction speed due to the gyro. I cant make any of them skip or malfunction (I get to about about 3m/s in game).

Only thing thats worse on this is the raw dpi. But since I use 800 dpi I dont care. Oh and its missing the sensor calibration stuff, but who cares.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> It has no angle snapping.
> It has no smoothing below 2000 dpi and 1ms smoothing above it. (3310 has 2-4ms smoothing)
> It has no acceleration.
> 
> To me - its a better sensor than what 502 has, since it has a higher malfunction speed due to the gyro. I cant make any of them skip or malfunction (I get to about about 3m/s in game).
> 
> Only thing thats worse on this is the raw dpi. But since I use 800 dpi I dont care. Oh and its missing the sensor calibration stuff, but who cares.


Well we can agree to disagree because everything I've seen says to the contary about the AM010 being in any way better to a 3310. And the gyro is still interpolation anyway.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Well we can agree to disagree because everything I've seen says to the contary about the AM010 being in any way better to a 3310. And the gyro is still interpolation anyway.


No doubt that the 502 sensor spec wise is the better sensor.

But what matters most is the day to day usage and not the spec sheet. And in day to day there is no difference


----------



## KFieLd

Just get the G303 and be done with it. You want the 3366, and you want a light weight mouse for flicking. As of right now the 303 is the only thing out there offering those things. Honestly I'm starting to have less "interest" in what pro players use anymore. I was watching Shroud's stream last night... he's a CS:GO professional, and probably the best player in north america next to HiKo. He currently uses a G303, and is actually considering dumping it to go back to his G100s because the G100s is more comfortable. The sensor in his G303 is light years better in all areas than his G100S but he can still play just as well with it. Lol. He is sponsored by Logitech G, and has access to all their mice, can use any of them.. yet likes his g100s the most. I'm almost positive no one on that team uses a G502 either. I know 3 of them have a g100s and have used it in the past.

Just another sign that Logitech need to develop more classic shaped mice to feature the 3366. If your pro players don't even want to use your top of the line mice, I think that says something. Replace the G502 with a G400 shape. Replace the G303 with a G100 shape. In both cases keep the 3366. Then sit back and watch the sales.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KFieLd*
> 
> Just get the G303 and be done with it. You want the 3366, and you want a light weight mouse for flicking. As of right now the 303 is the only thing out there offering those things. Honestly I'm starting to have less "interest" in what pro players use anymore. I was watching Shroud's stream last night... he's a CS:GO professional, and probably the best player in north america next to HiKo. He currently uses a G303, and is actually considering dumping it to go back to his G100s because the G100s is more comfortable. The sensor in his G303 is light years better in all areas than his G100S but he can still play just as well with it. Lol. He is sponsored by Logitech G, and has access to all their mice, can use any of them.. yet likes his g100s the most. I'm almost positive no one on that team uses a G502 either. I know 3 of them have a g100s and have used it in the past.
> 
> Just another sign that Logitech need to develop more classic shaped mice to feature the 3366. If your pro players don't even want to use your top of the line mice, I think that says something. Replace the G502 with a G400 shape. Replace the G303 with a G100 shape. In both cases keep the 3366. Then sit back and watch the sales.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.


The G303 is a heavy mouse for its size. It's heavier than mice larger than it. It doesn't have an internal weight to make it heavier like the G100S.

They should keep the G502 for the casual players, it's something they really like. It does well in America.

Nearly every Logitech sponsored GO player dislikes the G302/G303 and G502. They settle for the G402 and G100S. The G402's SROM is more responsive than the G100S version, but the G100S is lighter and has a more neutral shape. Last time I checked, majority of TSM were using G402s and the majority of Cloud9 (former and current) were using the G100S.

Logitech should have 2 lines of products for the 2 different player bases: casual and professional.

It's funny how Logitech becomes upset when you criticize their design concepts even though the professional players they sponsor have the exact same opinion as the majority of OC forum users.

A lot of pro players, that are not forced to play with certain mice, tend to use Zowie products. Zowie products are not the best, but they are not egregious like other "gaming" mice.


----------



## Venrar

I think the 502 is fine. The 303 shape is borderline unusable.


----------



## KFieLd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The G303 is a heavy mouse for its size. It's heavier than mice larger than it. It doesn't have an internal weight to make it heavier like the G100S.
> 
> They should keep the G502 for the casual players, it's something they really like. It does well in America.
> 
> Nearly every Logitech sponsored GO player dislikes the G302/G303 and G502. They settle for the G402 and G100S. The G402's SROM is more responsive than the G100S version, but the G100S is lighter and has a more neutral shape. Last time I checked, majority of TSM were using G402s and the majority of Cloud9 (former and current) were using the G100S.
> 
> Logitech should have 2 lines of products for the 2 different player bases: casual and professional.
> 
> It's funny how Logitech becomes upset when you criticize their design concepts even though the professional players they sponsor have the exact same opinion as the majority of OC forum users.
> 
> A lot of pro players, that are not forced to play with certain mice, *tend to use Zowie products*. Zowie products are not the best, but they are not egregious like other "gaming" mice.


I think the main reason for this is Zowie is one of the only companies out there that are doing what pro players WANT. If maybe the ONLY company. Think about it. Zowie offers multiple shapes, both ergo and ambi. They offer multiple sizes for each different model range. They are all plug and play and offer the essential DPI steps / LAN READY. And in most cases they have great sensors & implementation. They have everything pros want, and nothing they don't. Zowie may not have the best clicks/switches, but they WORK. The biggest positive in my eyes is that they cater to hand sizes better than any other company on the market.

FinalMouse is out there as well, but it's still very early for them. The only reason I list them is because they are focusing on sensor performance, and being a plug & play product.


----------



## hza

Mice with onboard memory = plug'n'play when you cannot use your own computer (LAN). Most people use their own computers on LANs, I guess. So, not having drivers gives you... Nothing? I don't blame Zowie. It's not like drivers are a must (neither is not having drivers). If you (don't) need drivers, why not? Everyone has to know on what he/she wants to spend money (and how much). Preferences = preferences after all.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KFieLd*
> 
> I admit, I am a fan of RGB in keyboard applications, but that's because it's so much more useful, especially if you're like me and find yourself doing a lot of typing in the dark... or being able to have your relevant FPS keys like WASD/Shift/Control, etc etc lit up in a different color. To me that makes much more sense than using RGB on a mouse... but hey, blame razer. They're the ones who made this stuff trendy. At least in my mind.


Pretty sure it was Corsair.


----------



## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> The G303 is a heavy mouse for its size. It's heavier than mice larger than it. It doesn't have an internal weight to make it heavier like the G100S.
> 
> They should keep the G502 for the casual players, it's something they really like. It does well in America.
> 
> Nearly every Logitech sponsored GO player dislikes the G302/G303 and G502. They settle for the G402 and G100S. The G402's SROM is more responsive than the G100S version, but the G100S is lighter and has a more neutral shape. Last time I checked, majority of TSM were using G402s and the majority of Cloud9 (former and current) were using the G100S.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UaM765-S515ibLyPaBtMnBz7xiao0HL5f-F1zk_CSF4/edit?pli=1#gid=1762004852
among c9 and tsm, there's shroud, sgares, karrigan, xyp9x, dupreeh using g303
but given how much they're switching around every few weeks, yea probably only one or two of them actually like the g303 shape.

regardless of how good 3366 is, am010 is a pretty nice sensor for cs imo


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UaM765-S515ibLyPaBtMnBz7xiao0HL5f-F1zk_CSF4/edit?pli=1#gid=1762004852
> among c9 and tsm, there's shroud, sgares, karrigan, xyp9x, dupreeh using g303
> but given how much they're switching around every few weeks, yea probably only one or two of them actually like the g303 shape.
> 
> regardless of how good 3366 is, am010 is a pretty nice sensor for cs imo


Those Reddit docs are usually out of date.

I use images from the latest tournament or the latest statement from the players regarding their setup.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Some great points here.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Those Reddit docs are usually out of date.
> 
> I use images from the latest tournament or the latest statement from the players regarding their setup.


Ha ha I thought I had made a reading error or something, but you're right, it is out of date. It was confusing seeing a pro use one mouse, andd then be told he was using a different one.


----------



## qsxcv

that one is pretty frequently updated. but yea one would imagine that logitech would have a hint about player's shape preferences given how many are still using g100s


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> that one is pretty frequently updated. but yea one would imagine that logitech would have a hint about player's shape preferences given how many are still using g100s


My friend doesn't need info leaks from Logitech to tell me that using a bit of wee old common sense, that Logitech are going to release a new mouse for chrismas, with some dank properties, to boot.

In other words, he thinks it's about time Logitech do some more innovation and release it at the perfect time when everyone is buying. And then he just hopes it's a good mouse.

Can't say I blame him


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Maybe they'll do a G9X shape while they're at it.


----------



## trism

Doesn't get_right use the g303? He at least seemed to enjoy using it and wasn't certainly forced to do so.

Also, why downgrade the 3366 and release it without a variable frame-rate? There is a reason for why such a possibility exists and it definitely is better and more advanced than a sensor without it.


----------



## uaokkkkkkkk

People still buy mice based off what some pro player uses? Do they really think that will translate into anything meaningful?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> People still buy mice based off what some pro player uses? Do they really think that will translate into anything meaningful?


Yup. And that's the main reason companies like Logitech Ss and Razer sponsor teams.


----------



## majnu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> They should keep the G502 for the casual players, it's something they really like. It does well in America.


I didn't like the G502 shape at first as I moved from the G700s but now I am used to it. I still do prefer the G700s it just moulds better in my hand.

I do wish that they either get rid of that sniper button or move it directly under the G5 button so your thumb rests on it. Also if they can make it lighter and make the scroll wheel up and down rachet more stiff then I would buy the revised version. But yeah I'm casual not expecting to win all my fps games but I do like to remain competitive even if I am getting on in age lol


----------



## SirWaWa

will the extra thumb buttons work without logitech software?
atleast configurable/responsive in games? (assigning keys)
that's what i'm looking for
i don't care about macro's


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirWaWa*
> 
> will the extra thumb buttons work without logitech software?
> atleast configurable/responsive in games? (assigning keys)
> that's what i'm looking for
> i don't care about macro's


Other than the forward, back, dpi up/down, dpi shift; no


----------



## SirWaWa

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Other than the forward, back, dpi up/down, dpi shift; no


hmmm... then it will work as planned
i can assign with my razer with no razer software for games
the default back/forward is exactly what i want anyways in windows


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

logitech software now razer software? wot


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SirWaWa*
> 
> will the extra thumb buttons work without logitech software?
> atleast configurable/responsive in games? (assigning keys)
> that's what i'm looking for
> i don't care about macro's


Yeah they will work.
You need to set them up once on a PC with lgs, like assign them a certain real button, save the profile to the mouse and you can then use the mouse on any other pc with those binds.

So I bind my sniper button to Ctrl. Save and then any PC I go to, that mouse button will be Ctrl. Lgs installed or not.


----------



## Wind

Does anybody know if logitech was able to fix the surface tuning with the G502? I'm running the newest software along with firmware. I tested it out on my "HyperX Fury Pro XL" mousepad and it seems to be alright, however I do recall that people were saying that you should be using profile 1 with the "Factory Default" surface? Any insights would be appreciated.

Running the mouse at 850 DPI/1000Hz, sensitivity 1 in CS:GO, dunno if this matters at all.


----------



## majnu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wind*
> 
> Does anybody know if logitech was able to fix the surface tuning with the G502? I'm running the newest software along with firmware. I tested it out on my "HyperX Fury Pro XL" mousepad and it seems to be alright, however I do recall that people were saying that you should be using profile 1 with the "Factory Default" surface? Any insights would be appreciated.
> 
> Running the mouse at 850 DPI/1000Hz, sensitivity 1 in CS:GO, dunno if this matters at all.


yes it was fixed
http://www.overclock.net/t/1539073/logitech-g502-strange-mouse-behaviour


----------



## renji1337

any idea when the mouse will be 49.99 again?


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *renji1337*
> 
> any idea when the mouse will be 49.99 again?


In Zimbabwe dollars?


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *uaokkkkkkkk*
> 
> People still buy mice based off what some pro player uses? Do they really think that will translate into anything meaningful?
> 
> 
> 
> Yup. And that's the main reason companies like Logitech Ss and Razer sponsor teams.
Click to expand...

You guys all seem quite naive when it comes to marketing products these days.

All companies sponsor events with Professional Gamers to make NOOBS believe that when you are buying their products, you too shall become as good as their sponsored pros. Hence this is why this type of marketing exists, because it WORKS







.


----------



## Makkqverk




----------



## Makkqverk

I will make a PRO GAMING mouse named The Razor.. With actuall Razor blades on top. And special gloves to prevent the pro players from getting cut. Gloves not included in box
















Edit: The Razor. It's cutting edge thecnology.

Edit2: +RGB lights.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Except Logitech actually makes decent products from a technological perspective. They just need to find someone to design them a shell for human hands


----------



## LifeIsGood4

What are the best uses you guys have found for the extra buttons ?


----------



## blueslobster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LifeIsGood4*
> 
> What are the best uses you guys have found for the extra buttons ?


Removing them.


----------



## Brightmist




----------



## pinobot

Does anybody else often accidentally left-scroll-click when pressing the mousewheel, feels like there is something broken.


----------



## maddangerous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *pinobot*
> 
> Does anybody else often accidentally left-scroll-click when pressing the mousewheel, feels like there is something broken.


Haven't had that. Maybe something is broken for you?

Shake it! Lol


----------



## pinobot

Lol, that's pretty much the way to troubleshoot all Logitech mice.
Because of the G502's shape the angle my index finger makes on the wheel is too great compared to ambidextrous mice, i just pull the wheel inwards. The wheel itself should have been on an angle. The whole side scrolling nonsense also doesn't help on a gaming mouse.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LifeIsGood4*
> 
> What are the best uses you guys have found for the extra buttons ?


Battlefield 4 jet controls. but, became confusing after a while so i unassigned the buttons.


----------



## Phreec

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LifeIsGood4*
> 
> What are the best uses you guys have found for the extra buttons ?


For browsing and media controls. The G-shift modifier is a godsend.


----------



## FreeElectron

How do you guys resolve the spinning bug?
It's becoming more frequent now.


----------



## Phreec

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> How do you guys resolve the spinning bug?
> It's becoming more frequent now.


Are you on latest firmware? That apparently fixed it.

The prior fix was to not use Surface Calibration or w/e it's called and leave it at Factory settings.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phreec*
> 
> Are you on latest firmware? That apparently fixed it.
> 
> The prior fix was to not use Surface Calibration or w/e it's called and leave it at Factory settings.


Yes, version 88.2.16
Do default tuning allow for low LOD as well?

Edit :
Ops, I was choosing a different surface.


----------



## Falkentyne

That's not the latest firmware.
It's on 88.2.17. That allows tuning to work, and other surfaces.
You should still not be using tuning anyway. Only tune if you are getting bad performance on factory default.


----------



## majnu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> How do you guys resolve the spinning bug?
> It's becoming more frequent now.


^^ What he said.

Looks like the f/w update within LGS didn't install properly for you.

However the spinning bug is fixed with that f/w update.


----------



## slothiraptor

I was upgrading my G400s to either the G402 or G502 and decided I liked the G502 better. However, I didnt like the lack of a rubber grip on the scroll wheel so i decided to change it. Now the mouse is perfect for me


----------



## ChromeBeauty

What wheel did you use?


----------



## slothiraptor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChromeBeauty*
> 
> What wheel did you use?


M705, they're the same on the G700, G500, and MX1100 too.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slothiraptor*
> 
> I was upgrading my G400s to either the G402 or G502 and decided I liked the G502 better. However, I didnt like the lack of a rubber grip on the scroll wheel so i decided to change it. Now the mouse is perfect for me


How much does that mouse now weigh?

Also, how hard was it to change? Does the rapid wheel still work?


----------



## slothiraptor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> How much does that mouse now weigh?
> 
> Also, how hard was it to change? Does the rapid wheel still work?


I don't know the exact numbers but the replacement wheel is a little bit lighter, maybe a couple grams? Here's the guide that I used. It was fairly easy to replace, the hardest part was taking the shell of the mouse apart. Yes the rapid wheel still works.


----------



## cyan

after upgrading to 88.2.17. G502 always prevent windows sleep.
If I unplug the mouse Windows sleep just fine.
Is there a way to revert it to previous firmware ?

thank you


----------



## jjpjimmy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cyan*
> 
> after upgrading to 88.2.17. G502 always prevent windows sleep.
> If I unplug the mouse Windows sleep just fine.
> Is there a way to revert it to previous firmware ?
> 
> thank you


go into device manager (run: devmgmt.msc) and find your Human Interface Device, I'm not sure if it will show as G502. Either way you'll open up it's properties and there should be a tap for power management. Uncheck the box that says "allow this device to wake up the PC".


----------



## cyan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjpjimmy*
> 
> go into device manager (run: devmgmt.msc) and find your Human Interface Device, I'm not sure if it will show as G502. Either way you'll open up it's properties and there should be a tap for power management. Uncheck the box that says "allow this device to wake up the PC".


Thanks, I googled about it before asking here.
So far the solution is the same like yours.
for few years I always wake the computer by click the mouse button
,so kinda hard to change that habit


----------



## ramraze

I haven't followed this thread, but I would be thankful if people could report how much weight they were able to shave off with the g502? I've seen the scrollwheel change guide as well.

If you have the weight on a scale or pics I'd really appreciate it. I've modded my g402 to approx 93 grams without hindering performance or comfort. Can share my findings. Sadly the g402 isn't right for me shape wise.


----------



## catalin1122

Hello guys,

I'm looking for a new mouse and I would like your opinion. My palm is 18 - 19 cm long and i use palm grip. I'm mainly play FPS and RTS games. My current mouse is an A4Tech Bloody V5 which I like but I got bored of it and I want a better sensor.
I like Logitech g502 and Mionix Naos 7000 but I do not which one to choose. I think I prefer g502 but idk if it's right for me. Where I live I can not test any of them.
What do you think? Can you give me an advice?

Thanks you!


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catalin1122*
> 
> Hello guys,
> 
> I'm looking for a new mouse and I would like your opinion. My palm is 18 - 19 cm long and i use palm grip. I'm mainly play FPS and RTS games. My current mouse is an A4Tech Bloody V5 which I like but I got bored of it and I want a better sensor.
> I like Logitech g502 and Mionix Naos 7000 but I do not which one to choose. I think I prefer g502 but idk if it's right for me. Where I live I can not test any of them.
> What do you think? Can you give me an advice?
> 
> Thanks you!


Well the G502 has the best sensor in the world plus many buttons which sounds useful for RTS games.


----------



## catalin1122

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Well the G502 has the best sensor in the world plus many buttons which sounds useful for RTS games.


That's why I like it more. The only problem is the shape. I'm afraid that it won't be comfortable to palm it. Did someone with 19 cm long palms try to palm it? Was it comfortable?


----------



## hza

In my opinion claw or fingertip grip are more comfortable on G502. Got 18 cm from the tip to the base.


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *catalin1122*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Well the G502 has the best sensor in the world plus many buttons which sounds useful for RTS games.
> 
> 
> 
> That's why I like it more. The only problem is the shape. I'm afraid that it won't be comfortable to palm it. Did someone with 19 cm long palms try to palm it? Was it comfortable?
Click to expand...

The shape looks weird, but it's like my hands instantly recognized the good ol' Logitech shape. It's not made for large hands though. Medium sized I'd say.


----------



## catalin1122

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> In my opinion claw or fingertip grip are more comfortable on G502. Got 18 cm from the tip to the base.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> The shape looks weird, but it's like my hands instantly recognized the good ol' Logitech shape. It's not made for large hands though. Medium sized I'd say.


Thanks for reply! I ordered it and it should arrive in a few days. I shall see how it feels when gaming for long times and if I don't like it I will return it.


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i was thinking of removing the side button pcb along with the 2 side buttons and the sniper button, then the magnet to hold the door on plus the door.
> 
> Or i'm pretty sure the scroll wheel weights 16g. So if you remove the scroll wheel and don't replace it plus remove the magnets and weight door, you're probably right at 100g.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atavax*
> 
> i was thinking of removing the side button pcb along with the 2 side buttons and the sniper button, then the magnet to hold the door on plus the door.
> 
> Or i'm pretty sure the scroll wheel weights 16g. So if you remove the scroll wheel and don't replace it plus remove the magnets and weight door, you're probably right at 100g.


Sry to quote an old post. I've seen a guide where you can replace the heavy scrollwheel of the g502 with a g500/s one, which is lighter but fits right in. You can order it separately on ebay.

You could also remove the led cover, part of the glossy frame, take off the scrollwheel customization buttons etc. Could come down to 95-96? Can some1 confirm if you can make it that light?


----------



## Arc0s

The g500 wheel is about 2 grams lighter only.


----------



## MisterMiller

I used to have g402 now I have g502. Is that scroll wheel working so noise? Because mine is sound like curt curt and shacking inside when I moved left-right. That is so annoying. Is that normal?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MisterMiller*
> 
> I used to have g402 now I have g502. Is that scroll wheel working so noise? Because mine is sound like curt curt and shacking inside when I moved left-right. That is so annoying. Is that normal?


Yes


----------



## amigastar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slothiraptor*
> 
> I don't know the exact numbers but the replacement wheel is a little bit lighter, maybe a couple grams? Here's the guide that I used. It was fairly easy to replace, the hardest part was taking the shell of the mouse apart. Yes the rapid wheel still works.


Hello,

i also decided to replace my mousewheel on the g502 with the g500 one, is there anything i have to consider? the feet are easy to remove and put back on? and are all features preserved of the metallic original wheel, like left/right scroll and non-resistant wheel scrolling for long documents?
Are there any drawbacks, if any?

thanks


----------



## plyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amigastar*
> 
> Hello,
> 
> i also decided to replace my mousewheel on the g502 with the g500 one, is there anything i have to consider? the feet are easy to remove and put back on? and are all features preserved of the metallic original wheel, like left/right scroll and non-resistant wheel scrolling for long documents?
> Are there any drawbacks, if any?
> 
> thanks


No, you better punch a hole through the feet to open the mouse. But is better to buy new skatez, the Hotline skatez are good replacements: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G502-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition-/121402762810?var=&hash=item61de47fdd2


----------



## amigastar

I was watching these feet:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/171962582029?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Even if i could arrange myself with the stock wheel, the idea of personlize it with another wheel (which is probably better, idk i only have the g500 wheel alone) is very tempting to me.


----------



## slothiraptor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amigastar*
> 
> Hello,
> 
> i also decided to replace my mousewheel on the g502 with the g500 one, is there anything i have to consider? the feet are easy to remove and put back on? and are all features preserved of the metallic original wheel, like left/right scroll and non-resistant wheel scrolling for long documents?
> Are there any drawbacks, if any?
> 
> thanks


I just pried the feet off with a flat head and stuck them back on on. As long as you you dont mess up and leave the stickiness on the pads, you should be able to stick them back on when done. I dont notice anything different with how it slides. The wheel functions just like the old one. The wheel functions just like the g502 one. The casing is literally exactly the same, the only difference is the actual wheel.


----------



## amigastar

Slothiraptor thanks for the infos.
The stock g502 wheel is one of the worst wheels i've experienced. the mouse itself is excellent just can't get warm with this wheel.


----------



## slothiraptor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amigastar*
> 
> Slothiraptor thanks for the infos.
> The stock g502 wheel is one of the worst wheels i've experienced. the mouse itself is excellent just can't get warm with this wheel.


No problem. I hated the wheel too. The lack of a rubber grip would occasionally cause my fingers to slip off the wheel when trying to scroll, definitely when my fingers were cold.


----------



## MisterMiller

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amigastar*
> 
> I was watching these feet:
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/171962582029?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
> 
> Even if i could arrange myself with the stock wheel, the idea of personlize it with another wheel (which is probably better, idk i only have the g500 wheel alone) is very tempting to me.


I guest You can ask Logitech RMA to send mouse feets free.


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MisterMiller*
> 
> I used to have g402 now I have g502. Is that scroll wheel working so noise? Because mine is sound like curt curt and shacking inside when I moved left-right. That is so annoying. Is that normal?


The wheel gets noisy when you move the mouse fast from side to side, it's even more noisy if you have "hyper scroll" enabled. So yes, rattle is normal with this mouse.


----------



## Im Batman

I really like the tactile feedback and solidness of the scroll-wheel, the overall quality feeling of the mouse is my favourite thing about it.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Im Batman*
> 
> I really like the tactile feedback and solidness of the scroll-wheel, the overall quality feeling of the mouse is my favourite thing about it.


Does its weight not annoy you?


----------



## Im Batman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Does its weight not annoy you?


I use it without the weights but no it's fine.

I have two mice on my desk at the moment, the G502 and a Mionix Naos 7000. They both interested me when I was first buying and in the end I got both of them after having the Naos for a while.

Since I got the G502 I've put the Naos aside though.


----------



## banging34hzs

I replaced a death adder 3.5g with a g502 when the left click went out and have not looked back.

I am a high sense gamer and use a soft mouse pad.

I do have different profiles set up for the different in-game actions (flying, gunner, driving, on foot)

All ways thought that I would never use any thing other then a DA but the G502 was only 45 bucks at best buy and the DA had the peeling issue at the time (don't know if still does)


----------



## 331149

I'm slowly getting used to mine. Initially I loved the shape as it reminded me of the good ol' Logitech shape that I've been using for years, but I also hated the mouse because it refused to glide on my QcK mousemat - I blamed the feet and I still do, they are absolute garbage! However all it took was a new mousemat (the Roccat Taito) in order for it glide much better. The weight was a problem initially as I was coming from a 92g mouse (Roccat Kone Pure) to this brick of a mouse, plus the slippery rubber sides didn't help either. Well the weight is no longer a problem, the rubber sides are not as slippery anymore for whatever reason, probably due to gunk buildup already - But hey, if it helps me hold the mouse instead of it slipping out of my hands then more gunk please.

I'm still not comfortable with the wheel. It's slippery, too intrusive and it makes the mouse rattle. I play games where I use the wheel a lot so I thought the free scroll would be awesome. It's not. It just makes the mouse rattle a lot more, and every single time I scroll up, the wheel scrolls down by 1 notch. Every single time. I don't know what I'm doing wrong but it's like the wheel has different material in one end and a different (and heavier) material in the other. Or maybe my finger just naturally flips the wheel back a notch when I let go, who knows.

Anyway so far I really like it. It just takes extra time to get used to this mouse for some reason.


----------



## hza

None of the above "issues" with my G502.


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> None of the above "issues" with my G502.


Are you saying your mouse doesn't rattle when you move it fast from side to side or drop it? I find that very hard to believe. It's the noisiest mouse I've ever owned in my life.


----------



## hza

No, I'm not saying that. I meant gliding problems (but I wouldn't use QcK, too slow pad for me), slippery sides (weren't or didn't feel slippery from the start), slippery mwheel (never found it slippery), the different scrolls (it scrolls exactly on screen exactly what my finger scrolls, so to say) that you described. Rattling mwheel is techincal based (4d) btw, that's not a real issue, just a matter of taste. The whole mouse is a matter of taste (like everything). If you're not a "high(er) senser", I can imagine you'll probably have trouble with the weight, f.e.


----------



## kackbratze

Hey,

the g502 will be on sale at amazon tomorrow and I'm considering buying it .

kind of a stupid question but: Why is no pro gamer (at least in cs:go, not even one of the players in teams that are sponsored by logitech) using this mouse? are there any downsides?

another question: today I went to my local electronics dealer and put my hand onto the mouse. it didn't appear to me as that large and heavy as it is described.... I thought it fit pretty well for my rather small hands. do you know if the retailers take some internals out of the mouse to make it lighter?

thanks in advance


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kackbratze*
> 
> Hey,
> 
> the g502 will be on sale at amazon tomorrow and I'm considering buying it .
> 
> kind of a stupid question but: Why is no pro gamer (at least in cs:go, not even one of the players in teams that are sponsored by logitech) using this mouse? are there any downsides?
> 
> another question: today I went to my local electronics dealer and put my hand onto the mouse. it didn't appear to me as that large and heavy as it is described.... I thought it fit pretty well for my rather small hands. do you know if the retailers take some internals out of the mouse to make it lighter?
> 
> thanks in advance


The mouse had serious issues with CS:GO, but that has been fixed by firmware updates.



The g502 is smaller in width compared to previous Logitech mice.


----------



## Phreec

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kackbratze*
> 
> kind of a stupid question but: Why is no pro gamer (at least in cs:go, not even one of the players in teams that are sponsored by logitech) using this mouse? are there any downsides?


Because personal preference.

If you look at most FPS mice or the mice pros use you'll notice how they're for the most part very basic and often lightweight. All the bells and whistles of the G502 aren't necessary for the sole purpose of tracking and aiming, which is what most pros use their mouse for.

And that spinny tracking bug, which has since then been fixed, was simply avoided by not using the Surface Calibration feature but to leave it at Factory Default.


----------



## Derp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kackbratze*
> 
> kind of a stupid question but: Why is no pro gamer (at least in cs:go, not even one of the players in teams that are sponsored by logitech) using this mouse? are there any downsides?


The reason professionals and most competitive players don't use this mouse:



And that's without any weights installed.


----------



## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Derp*
> 
> The reason professionals and most competitive players don't use this mouse:
> 
> And that's without any weights installed.


Flusha will never use that mouse. It won't let him lift.


----------



## Phreec

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *popups*
> 
> Flusha will never use that mouse. It won't let him lift.


He'd be FlushaBiceps in no time.


----------



## Wabaliuz

Amazon have this mouse on sale. Would you recommend this over Rival/Deathadder Chroma?

Also, from dimensions on internet it looks like G502 is similar size to rival which I find pretty big? I use palm/claw grip. More palm.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wabaliuz*
> 
> Amazon have this mouse on sale. Would you recommend this over Rival/Deathadder Chroma?
> 
> Also, from dimensions on internet it looks like G502 is similar size to rival which I find pretty big? I use palm/claw grip. More palm.


It feels smaller than the rival and has a different grip style to it.

It's only downside is weight. This caused me to abandon it as it was causing wrist pain.

I would recommend it over the da because da is wide and I prefer narrower mice.

Using a rival 300 myself atm.


----------



## Wabaliuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> It feels smaller than the rival and has a different grip style to it.
> 
> It's only downside is weight. This caused me to abandon it as it was causing wrist pain.
> 
> I would recommend it over the da because da is wide and I prefer narrower mice.
> 
> Using a rival 300 myself atm.


What about mechanical faults? If mouse breaks I will have to send it back to amazon, which is pretty far, so that's a concern.

Any wide known / mass faults?

*EDIT* - Also, isn't Rival 300 and G502 basically the same weight? steelseries.com shows its 130g.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wabaliuz*
> 
> What about mechanical faults? If mouse breaks I will have to send it back to amazon, which is pretty far, so that's a concern.
> 
> Any wide known / mass faults?
> 
> *EDIT* - Also, isn't Rival 300 and G502 basically the same weight? steelseries.com shows its 130g.


Rival is 112 gram. Dunno what the site says.

Logitech has the best support and good build quality. If something breaks - mail them and you get a new mouse. Happened only once for me but was happy.

Also g502 has a lot of the weight in front while the rival is ass heavy.

This makes a lot of difference for me


----------



## Wabaliuz

Thanks for your help. Have to consider more tho :/. It's a shame no store in the area have them on display.

RGB bling bling 14yo swag colours would be a plus too


----------



## messer19

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kackbratze*
> 
> Hey,
> 
> kind of a stupid question but: Why is no pro gamer (at least in cs:go, not even one of the players in teams that are sponsored by logitech) using this mouse? are there any downsides?
> thanks in advance


I'm global elite and have zero issues with this mouse. Actually the shape is the best of which I tried so far (many mainstream ones) and the bigger weight causes my cursor lands on head without issues.


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *messer19*
> 
> I'm global elite and have zero issues with this mouse. Actually the shape is the best of which I tried so far (many mainstream ones) and the bigger weight causes my cursor lands on head without issues.


I imagine it's the heaviness that's distasteful for many top tier players. It does come down to taste ultimately, but heavier does necessarily mean more momentum and inertia (essentially real world accel), as well as more force required to swing it about (think rapid 14" swipes). Whether you like heft or not, a lighter mouse has some objective advantages.

The mouse wheel sucks, too, but that's not a crucial issue for a game like CSGO.


----------



## plyr

My g502 is back to 100grams and I still don't use it, the shape is comfortable to me but some things are just too awkward like having mouse button1 concave and button2 convex for example, that is weird to me when I'm playing...


----------



## dmbr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *plyr*
> 
> My g502 is back to 100grams and I still don't use it, the shape is comfortable to me but some things are just too awkward like having mouse button1 concave and button2 convex for example, that is weird to me when I'm playing...


isn't the weight more like 125g without weights/cord? Did you mod it?


----------



## plyr

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dmbr*
> 
> isn't the weight more like 125g without weights/cord? Did you mod it?


Yes, a lot... replaced the scroll wheel with the g302 one, cut some plastic off, and removed the side left side pcb, and a non braided cable too...


----------



## DiaSin

So, since I have a G502 from the original run, with that little flaw in the mouse feet that made them pick up all the dust and lint in my room, I ordered some Hotline Games competition grade feet. It took 3 weeks for them to get here, with no tracking, and I found out why today. They stuck them in an envelope, with a regular stamp, and dropped them in a mailbox. They used Chinese snail mail for shipping.



Anyway.. these feet are awesome. I keep this mouse as heavy as it can go, and between these feet and my hard mat, if I flick the mouse it flies a good 5 inches across the mat. Before and after pics..


----------



## slothiraptor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> So, since I have a G502 from the original run, with that little flaw in the mouse feet that made them pick up all the dust and lint in my room, I ordered some Hotline Games competition grade feet. It took 3 weeks for them to get here, with no tracking, and I found out why today. They stuck them in an envelope, with a regular stamp, and dropped them in a mailbox. They used Chinese snail mail for shipping.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway.. these feet are awesome. I keep this mouse as heavy as it can go, and between these feet and my hard mat, if I flick the mouse it flies a good 5 inches across the mat. Before and after pics..


Looks nice







I ordered mine on the 26th and they have yet to arrive. Hopefully they get here soon.


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiaSin*
> 
> So, since I have a G502 from the original run, with that little flaw in the mouse feet that made them pick up all the dust and lint in my room, I ordered some Hotline Games competition grade feet. It took 3 weeks for them to get here, with no tracking, and I found out why today. They stuck them in an envelope, with a regular stamp, and dropped them in a mailbox. They used Chinese snail mail for shipping.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway.. these feet are awesome. I keep this mouse as heavy as it can go, and between these feet and my hard mat, if I flick the mouse it flies a good 5 inches across the mat. Before and after pics..


Did you get the competition? Do they glide better or is it the same? Looks nice though, I'm thinking about ordering a pair.


----------



## Spade616

finally got one of these bad boys. i must say, i love absolutely everything about it. i use a claw grip and it feels extremely comfortable. picked up a cheap extended mousepad and it works great, more slippery than a goliathus speed or Qck mass. i just wish it were a bit lighter, especially since they include weights anyway. 121g base weight is a bit on the heavy side for a modular weight mouse, but oh well.


----------



## DiaSin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> Did you get the competition? Do they glide better or is it the same? Looks nice though, I'm thinking about ordering a pair.


Yeah, I got the competition. Its like trying to walk on wet ice, these things are awesome. I apologize for the vertical video, I hadn't expected to actually post this anywhere, I made it when a friend couldn't understand what I meant when I said I flicked the moues and it flew.


----------



## 331149

haha nice! I'm gonna order a pair for sure


----------



## slothiraptor

Just got my competition mouse feet today and theyre definitely an upgrade over the stock feet. These things are great


----------



## SeekerZA

Did use remove the stock feet before applying the competition feet?


----------



## slothiraptor

Yes, I did.


----------



## Fatman

Is there a way to reset the firmware back to default on this mice? I upgraded firmware for the first time since I received the mice and the LOD has become so low the mice is unusable. Simply putting a little bit of pressure on the thumb rest will stop the mice from tracking.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fatman*
> 
> Is there a way to reset the firmware back to default on this mice? I upgraded firmware for the first time since I received the mice and the LOD has become so low the mice is unusable. Simply putting a little bit of pressure on the thumb rest will stop the mice from tracking.


Why not change the lod in the settings?


----------



## Fatman

How? I dont see an option to adjust the lod.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Why not change the lod in the settings?


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fatman*
> 
> How? I dont see an option to adjust the lod.


Did you try the calibration tab in the software?


----------



## Fatman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Did you try the calibration tab in the software?


Yes, and I get the same issue. I've even tried using 2 other mousepads and they give me the same issue.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fatman*
> 
> Yes, and I get the same issue. I've even tried using 2 other mousepads and they give me the same issue.


When you calibrate the sensor it will give you a 1.5+/- mm lift off distance based on surface. If not - you are doing something wrong then. New firmware made a lot of things better on the mouse.

Make sure you move the mouse when its calibrating.


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fatman*
> 
> Is there a way to reset the firmware back to default on this mice? I upgraded firmware for the first time since I received the mice and the LOD has become so low the mice is unusable. Simply putting a little bit of pressure on the thumb rest will stop the mice from tracking.


Tune it and the LOD will behave much better. I'm fairly sure the software does this for you as there's no LOD setting.


----------



## kova4a

A friend gifted me the g502 today. I've been using the G9 (as I had issues with the G9x sensor and found it inferior) for quite some years now and I have to admit that the g502 is nowhere near as comfortable for a fingertip grip user like me. I tried to relax my hand but it kinda forces you to either go with a claw or a palm grip.
It's sad that logitech abandoned the G9 instead of upgrading it as there isn't any actual replacement for it without sacrificing functionality.
Also, I don't know if its from its weight or the grip change but g502 needs to be set at 3800 dpi to feel the same way as G9 at 3200.
On the positive side, g502 is a great mouse overall and I really appreciate the small things like the scroll wheel switch on top and the sniper button. I guess I just have to get used to the grip change and the added fatigue it brings.

Edit: Actually after some tweaking and trial and error I managed to get it as smooth and fast as I wanted while keeping the good control and accuracy, so now at 4300 dpi I can relax my hand and fingertip grip it. It's still no G9 in comfort but is much more enjoyable to use.


----------



## hza

For me claw-fingertip feels extremely comfortable on 502. When I bought it I palm'd it like I would do with probably most mice, but my hand started to hurt after Idk ~ 2-4 hours of gaming. Quite some months later I realised it's "perfect" comfortable when I started to use claw-fingertip hybrid grip. I coudn't be more happy... Except.... If Logitech would release a G303 with G502/500 mwheel (not talking about the freespin mode) and not "rattling sensor. *lol*


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

How long has the g502 been off the mice main info page at Logitech.com? Swear I just looked at specs last week.


----------



## messer19

Hope it's not going to be discontinued. Better buy few of them for backup


----------



## kyotkyotkyot

Someone had a proteus spectrum tag on there's few months back. Maybe refresh? Although the g302 is still up despite the addition of g303.


----------



## ozlay

just got a G502 for $40 at bestbuy they were so cheap i couldn't pass it up









its heavier then my G500 but i kinda wish it was a bit more.


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kyotkyotkyot*
> 
> How long has the g502 been off the mice main info page at Logitech.com? Swear I just looked at specs last week.


Ah so that's why the local shop suddenly stopped selling them. Weird. It's gone from Logitechs site alright. Typical, just when I purchase the damn thing. Even the actual product page just throws me to the support page http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/g502-proteus-core-tunable-gaming-mouse


----------



## messer19

It`s back

http://gaming.logitech.com/en-gb/product/g502-proteus-core-tunable-gaming-mouse


----------



## hza

@messer19 that's the UK site. No G502 on the US site.


----------



## 331149

I've had this mouse for less than 3 weeks, and the coating is already getting shiny ..


----------



## micehunter

I have ~18cm hands and uses a claw grip style. I mainly play csgo. Will I be able to claw grip this mouse?.


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *micehunter*
> 
> I have ~18cm hands and uses a claw grip style. I mainly play csgo. Will I be able to claw grip this mouse?.


Yes. I actually just took a measurement and I have the same size pretty much. I claw this mouse.


----------



## DrGroove

I've had this mouse for a long time, and just started to wonder if something isn't right. When I lift my fingers off the two main mouse buttons, there is a very loud vibration. Is this inherent to mediocre build quality and tolerances, or is mine possibly defective?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> I've had this mouse for less than 3 weeks, and the coating is already getting shiny ..


ABS


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrGroove*
> 
> I've had this mouse for a long time, and just started to wonder if something isn't right. When I lift my fingers off the two main mouse buttons, there is a very loud vibration. Is this inherent to mediocre build quality and tolerances, or is mine possibly defective?


You mean the mouse wheel or something else? If it's just the mwheel, it's normal due to construction, so to say. If it's not that, it sounds like you got a defective unit.


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrGroove*
> 
> I've had this mouse for a long time, and just started to wonder if something isn't right. When I lift my fingers off the two main mouse buttons, there is a very loud vibration. Is this inherent to mediocre build quality and tolerances, or is mine possibly defective?


Mine does the same thing. It is a noisy mouse alright.


----------



## DrGroove

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> You mean the mouse wheel or something else? If it's just the mwheel, it's normal due to construction, so to say. If it's not that, it sounds like you got a defective unit.


No, the main buttons. It's very noticeable with sweaty hands, because when you depress and then release the button the plastic wing above the actual switch lets out a loud twang.


----------



## hza

Mine doesn't do that, if I don't press/pull the lmb/rmb upwards intenionally. lmb is louder than rmb, but I wouldn't say that's annoyingly loud. However, your unit still sounds defective to me. If you have the possibility, go to a computer store. Maybe they got a G502 exposed, so, you can try that out.


----------



## LocutusH

20 months in use here... a bit hard to clean here and there, but still works perfect


----------



## Regnitto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrGroove*
> 
> I've had this mouse for a long time, and just started to wonder if something isn't right. When I lift my fingers off the two main mouse buttons, there is a very loud vibration. Is this inherent to mediocre build quality and tolerances, or is mine possibly defective?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> Mine does the same thing. It is a noisy mouse alright.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrGroove*
> 
> No, the main buttons. It's very noticeable with sweaty hands, because when you depress and then release the button the plastic wing above the actual switch lets out a loud twang.


I've had my G502 for about a year now and I have not noticed this issue. How long have you guys had yours? Could they just be wearing out from long-term heavy use?


----------



## 331149

^ 3 weeks.


----------



## Regnitto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> ^ 3 weeks.


That sucks........defect? I would RMA that


----------



## doomleika

One of our local forum just reported that Logitech has ran out of stock and mark g502 as 'discontinued'. Other has report unsuccessful RMA request as Logitech offering different product for replacement to g502.

Either this is limited to SEA region, or worldwide. Take that as you will.


----------



## 331149

It's back on the US site http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/g502-proteus-core-tunable-gaming-mouse and also listed here http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/gaming-mice


----------



## hza

German Amazon listed G502 Proteus Spectrum since Dec 13th.

http://www.amazon.de/s/ref=nb_sb_noss/280-4848146-1473105?__mk_de_DE=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=logitech+g502+proteus+spectrum

If you wonder why there are 2 versions listed, it's because one's (910-004617) the DE (german) version and the other (910-004618) is the UK version. That happens with pretty much all, if not all "gaming mice" from Logitech. Idk why, but german Amazon offers both.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Nice find! :O

Is it really heavier than the G502 (Normal)?

It says it's 127 g (or something) which is more than the G502(normal) on the website.


----------



## majnu

Could be potentially lighter if that is the weight inc cable as the G502 is 121g (mouse only) 168g (with cable)
If it is the weight inc cable I will be happy. Additionally the product weight inc packaging is lighter for the RGB version.

It's also smaller than the G502 which is 7.5 x 13.2 x 4 cm and the RGB is 11,5 x 6,5 x 3,7 cm


----------



## saltedham

can the sniper button be removed if i open it up? is it easy to do?


----------



## MedRed

I've had this mouse for about a year. Had a Corsair M65 before it (too wide for comfort and never was able to dial in the sensitivity) Before that I had 2 Razer Mambas ( accurate and comfortable but both broke between 2009 & 2013...never again with razer).

I love the shape of the mouse and I love the the scroll wheel. It has just the right amount of buttons. My tracking improved right away over the Corsair M65. The problem with the G502 is that it's just too dang heavy even with all of the weights removed. Rocket jumping and flare jumping in TF2 required me to expend more effort to lift the mouse than I could condition myself to do even after a year. Often times I'd go to rocket jump and end up looking at the sky instead of jumping away.

I moved the G502 to another computer and decided to give the G303 (same sensor) a try. It was a great decision. no more rocket jumping issues. The mouse is really light, tracking is great, I didn't give up too many buttons, and it's still very comfortable. It's all of the accuracy of the G502 without the extra heft. The only thing I'm really missing is the super fast scroll function and the better feeling scroll wheel. My only issue with the g303 is that the buttons are super sensitive to clicks. It doesn't take much effort to actuate them. I've accidentally pushed a right click from just resting my finger too hard on the button.


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *saltedham*
> 
> can the sniper button be removed if i open it up? is it easy to do?


You can make it a disabled/dead button in the software. So you can button mash the poor thing and it wouldn't do anything.


----------



## Ufasas

i think i'm going back from g502 to g402 and now again to g502, because of this tuning: 


g402 has a nicer right side shape for my ring finger, so only after 10 months i managed to think about rubbing some rubber off so it will be a more comfortable grip like with g402, doh : /


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> haha nice! I'm gonna order a pair for sure


wow they already arrived - Thought I'd had to wait a month at least


----------



## 331149

And they are on, sort of. I skipped the tiny ones in the middle - I'm gonna do those another day. They do glide a lot better. The original feet tends to "get stuck" to the pad when moving the mouse slowly. No such issue with these. They are a tad nosier than the originals. I'm super sensitive to this stuff, but I'll get used to it. I wont be able to hear it either when gaming. I only have rubbing alcohol and the leftover goo from the original feet was pretty hard to get rid of. I had to resort to q-tips and toothpicks











Worth the money folks! And they smell delicious.
* *Competition edition* *


----------



## 331149

All on now. It was actually gliding better with the originals in the middle lol.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Did you remember to take off the plastic on top of the skates? There's a thin sheet of it on top that you have to peel off first before you use them.


----------



## ChromeBeauty

Are there alternatives to the Hotline Games skates?
I wonder why I see nothing for the G502 from Hyperglides, I used them on the DA and they worked great.


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Did you remember to take off the plastic on top of the skates? There's a thin sheet of it on top that you have to peel off first before you use them.


Yep all plastic gone - Maybe they are slightly elevated from the rest of the skates, who knows. It's weird the mouse glides better with the originals in the middle, while the bigger Hotline ones glides way better. I'll give it a couple of weeks to settle properly








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChromeBeauty*
> 
> Are there alternatives to the Hotline Games skates?
> I wonder why I see nothing for the G502 from Hyperglides, I used them on the DA and they worked great.


I've only spotted these http://www.ebay.com/itm/1mm-White-Tiger-Gaming-Mouse-Feet-for-Logitech-G502-Mouse-Feet-2015-Edition-/381298313477 and you most definitely need to remove the original feet as these are 1mm instead of the regular 0.6mm (or 0.28mm to be placed on top of original feet). I haven't spotted any Hyperglide's.


----------



## Falkentyne

I have those white tiger gaming feet.
I basically stocked up on a bunch of stuff
5 tiger gaming feet, 8 competition F4 feet and 6 (or 7) performance (regular black) feet.
And I have THREE G502's to play with, so....yeah. One of them has two stacks of 0.6mm feet, one just one layer of F4 silvers and one with the Tiger Gaming.

Maybe someday I'll buy something for my G303 too. TBH I just keep the G303 in the laptop bag.

I found the performance feet worked best on hard aluminum pads like my Razer Exactmat.

BTW do you find that the glide is better with the 'center' V feet completely removed?
I'm not sure but I think those V feet don't really need to be there, unless you aren't using the weight door. Then they absolutely HAVE to be there. (even then removing the weight door causes extra tipping issues...whatever).


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> All on now. It was actually gliding better with the originals in the middle lol.


Issue is gone, glide is fantastic now. So if anyone was wondering, go ahead and replace the tiny middle ones as well, but be prepared for a restricted glide for a week or two depending on usage (or I might have just messed up when putting them, who knows). They are so small


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> BTW do you find that the glide is better with the 'center' V feet completely removed?
> I'm not sure but I think those V feet don't really need to be there, unless you aren't using the weight door. Then they absolutely HAVE to be there. (even then removing the weight door causes extra tipping issues...whatever).


To me it glides slightly better with the door off, but as you said, it becomes too easy to tilt it and nobody wants that. I'd much rather have Logitech stick to the old tried and true feet & position(s). My G5v2 was gliding like a boss on all surfaces and the feet never peeled or came off.


This is how my G5v2 looks after 4 years of usage and a quick clean (which wiped off the writing) but the feet are still there and they never picked up as much dirt and dust as the feet on the G502, or peeled off for that matter.


----------



## amigastar

I wanted to replace the scroll wheel on my g502, i even had ordered new wheel and feet. but after using it for a time now, the middle click got better/easier to click, i think i'm gonna leave it at that, maybe in a year or so will replace the wheel.


----------



## Ufasas

has anyone tried roccat taito control with stitched edges with this mouse? had roccat sense, is good, asus glide speed good, but too slidey


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> has anyone tried roccat taito control with stitched edges with this mouse? had roccat sense, is good, asus glide speed good, but too slidey


I have the regular Taito. Glide is good, control is good and it doesn't slide around uncontrollably. In fact I find it perfect for this mouse. I imagine Taito Control is more sticky like the QcK if that's your thing.


----------



## Ufasas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> I have the regular Taito. Glide is good, control is good and it doesn't slide around uncontrollably. In fact I find it perfect for this mouse. I imagine Taito Control is more sticky like the QcK if that's your thing.


you mean sticky - less slide, or more sticky to table, coz i'd like to have roccat sense stickiness of bottom to table too. Seems like you talked about taito regular like i feel about roccat sense : P


----------



## rpalmer92

.


----------



## majnu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rpalmer92*
> 
> .


What's your mousemat?

Nvm you deleted your post


----------



## rpalmer92

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *majnu*
> 
> What's your mousemat?
> 
> Nvm you deleted your post


Kingston hyperx fury large

I feel it's just as good as any other I've used. I don't think the pad is the issue.

Perhaps I should just aim prac more and focus on my positioning and stuff rather than aim lol.


----------



## hza

@Ufasas Taito Control is a very fast pad, not as slow as any (black/default coating) QcK. Sense pad... About 5 years are too long to remember.


----------



## Ufasas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> @Ufasas Taito Control is a very fast pad, not as slow as any (black/default coating) QcK. Sense pad... About 5 years are too long to remember.


so it's like Razer control?? whats up with this naming, whenever control - its slidey/fast ??


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ufasas*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> I have the regular Taito. Glide is good, control is good and it doesn't slide around uncontrollably. In fact I find it perfect for this mouse. I imagine Taito Control is more sticky like the QcK if that's your thing.
> 
> 
> 
> you mean sticky - less slide, or more sticky to table, coz i'd like to have roccat sense stickiness of bottom to table too. Seems like you talked about taito regular like i feel about roccat sense : P
Click to expand...

Sticky as in less glide but more control







Personally I need my mouse to glide really good in order to have control over it lol. The Taito also sticks to my table really good, it doesn't move at all in fact.


----------



## hza

@Ufasas "Control" mostly means weaving pattern is larger/bigger (w/e you call it). That roughly results into less friction and faster movements.


----------



## amigastar

new version announced, with old mousewheel (disappointed)
http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/g502-proteus-spectrum-rgb-gaming-mouse


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> @Ufasas "Control" mostly means weaving pattern is larger/bigger (w/e you call it). That roughly results into less friction and faster movements.


Err you mean speed?

Control refers to a greater amount of friction


----------



## hza

@DrSebWilkes No, I don't. Control refers to a lower coefficient of friction. Goliathus Control has less surface area since it's a thick weave and therefore lower friction on mouse feet than Goliathus Speed. However, Goliathus Speed has lower initial friction when it's new. Coating will wear off over time. Roccat Taito Control feels rougher, but also has a lower coefficient of friction. From experience that's what I felt.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Hmm ... well ...just saying mate that control always means a mousemat with more friction than the speed one. That's all I can contribute here ...


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Razer is stupid so their "Control" pad is really a speed pad and their "Speed" pad is really a slow pad.


----------



## DrSebWilkes

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Razer is stupid so their "Control" pad is really a speed pad and their "Speed" pad is really a slow pad.


Apparently you can't make this stuff up







:O

Just another reason why Razer needs to get out of the market!


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrSebWilkes*
> 
> Apparently you can't make this stuff up
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :O
> 
> Just another reason why Razer needs to get out of the market!


No matter what razer releases, people will still buy it blindly. Like their 90 dollar controller. Somebody should slap mr CEO.


----------



## hza

@DrSebWilkes @Zenith Phantasm Razer released their first generation cloth pads in ~ 2004 in form of Razer Mantis Speed/Control. Back then I bought the control because I thought I want more control than speed, so to say. Both pads were EverGlide Titan with Razer branding on it. However, whatever the reason for the name(s) were back then... Maybe Razer thought people wouldn't understand why the "flatter" pad should be called Control, so, they went the other way. Really no clue...


----------



## 331149

I've bought 2 Razer products, both were returned within a couple of days. You honestly have to look real hard to find such low quality for such a high price with other brands.


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amigastar*
> 
> new version announced, with old mousewheel (disappointed)
> http://gaming.logitech.com/en-us/product/g502-proteus-spectrum-rgb-gaming-mouse


Has anyone tried to put an older Logitech scroll wheel in in place of the stock one on the 502, like say from earlier switchable-mode scroll mice? I'm hesitating on digging out and dusting off some old Best Buy gift cards for one for that reason. A metal wheel doesn't really appeal to me.


----------



## qsxcv

ya
http://blog.siddv.net/2014/09/logitech-g502-proteus-core-teardown.html


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> ya
> http://blog.siddv.net/2014/09/logitech-g502-proteus-core-teardown.html


Perfect, that's exactly what I wanted. Now if I can figure out why my middle-click isn't working, I'll try that...


----------



## slothiraptor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chunky_Chimp*
> 
> Has anyone tried to put an older Logitech scroll wheel in in place of the stock one on the 502, like say from earlier switchable-mode scroll mice? I'm hesitating on digging out and dusting off some old Best Buy gift cards for one for that reason. A metal wheel doesn't really appeal to me.


I put the old gt500 wheel in my mouse awhile back. It feels much better now.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slothiraptor*
> 
> I was upgrading my G400s to either the G402 or G502 and decided I liked the G502 better. However, I didnt like the lack of a rubber grip on the scroll wheel so i decided to change it. Now the mouse is perfect for me


----------



## Chunky_Chimp

Yep, it even looks better with it, but I'm after the feel.


----------



## 331149

I despised the wheel on the 502, and it took a long time to get used to it. Now however, I think it's alright. It's no Titan Wheel (Roccat) but it's decent.


----------



## munchzilla

do MX-3.0 skatez fit on this thing? in the pre-made feet area.


----------



## hza

Don't expect everyone to understand that. I guess you mean hyperglide MX-3 (for MX310) skates.


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Don't expect everyone to understand that. I guess you mean hyperglide MX-3 (for MX310) skates.


haha! I noticed my english was pretty awful there.

I meant MS 3.0. and if they will fit inside the edges for the original feet? I dont feel like sanding it down just to fit the feet I like... 

thanks!


----------



## hza

I sold my Intelli mice long time ago, but from memory I don't think they'll fit. Not 100 % sure though.


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> do MX-3.0 skatez fit on this thing? in the pre-made feet area.


You can get some pretty darn cheap ones here, and they're great http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G502-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition-/121402762810


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> You can get some pretty darn cheap ones here, and they're great http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G502-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition-/121402762810


You can find cheaper with included twitch. It's cheaper but delivery is longer at least for me. But I could get 3 sets way more cheaper that this seller.

This one is way way way cheaper

http://www.ebay.com/itm/201331122645?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D201331122645%26_rdc%3D1

There are couple more sellers the same price if you look easy


----------



## munchzilla

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> You can get some pretty darn cheap ones here, and they're great http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G502-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition-/121402762810


hmm yes but I really dont like the way theyre shaped. I feel it adds friction cause of how big and oddly shaped they are...








I wanted to try ms3.0 or mx1 from hyperglide and see if I can get better performance.
Plan to change scroll wheel and cable as well so I will need to replace feet regardless.


----------



## Nixtix

Received a Spectrum version of the the g502 as an RMA. It's a real shame they didn't take the opportunity to lighten the mouse to 100 grams at least with this version...


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *munchzilla*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> You can get some pretty darn cheap ones here, and they're great http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G502-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition-/121402762810
> 
> 
> 
> hmm yes but I really dont like the way theyre shaped. I feel it adds friction cause of how big and oddly shaped they are...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to try ms3.0 or mx1 from hyperglide and see if I can get better performance.
> Plan to change scroll wheel and cable as well so I will need to replace feet regardless.
Click to expand...

They are shaped the same as the originals so it can only get better imho, the original glide like complete ass on my QcK. The feet glide better on the Taito due to the "Nano Matrix" surface, a.k.a. heat treated. Now comparing the competition to the originals, there's really no contest. Competition glides a lot better. I even had issues doing basic Photoshop work done because the mouse would "stick" to the surface if I moved it really slow (which you do sometimes when doing precision work) using the original feet, the Competition fixed that issue as well.

They are dirt cheap so if the odd chance of you not liking them, it's not the end of the world. You also get 2 sets, so when the first set it worn down in some 4 years, you can change it again for free


----------



## hza

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> They are shaped the same as the originals so it can only get better imho, the original glide like complete ass on my QcK. The feet glide better on the Taito due to the "Nano Matrix" surface, a.k.a. heat treated. Now comparing the competition to the originals, there's really no contest. Competition glides a lot better. I even had issues doing basic Photoshop work done because the mouse would "stick" to the surface if I moved it really slow (which you do sometimes when doing precision work) using the original feet, the Competition fixed that issue as well.
> 
> They are dirt cheap so if the odd chance of you not liking them, it's not the end of the world. You also get 2 sets, so when the first set it worn down in some 4 years, you can change it again for free


The original feet of my G502 won't ever get stuck on my Goliathus TL Edition or Taito Control no matter how slow I move the mouse, so, I guess QcK is too slow and/or G502 feet aren't good enough on slow pads.


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> They are shaped the same as the originals so it can only get better imho, the original glide like complete ass on my QcK. The feet glide better on the Taito due to the "Nano Matrix" surface, a.k.a. heat treated. Now comparing the competition to the originals, there's really no contest. Competition glides a lot better. I even had issues doing basic Photoshop work done because the mouse would "stick" to the surface if I moved it really slow (which you do sometimes when doing precision work) using the original feet, the Competition fixed that issue as well.
> 
> They are dirt cheap so if the odd chance of you not liking them, it's not the end of the world. You also get 2 sets, so when the first set it worn down in some 4 years, you can change it again for free
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The original feet of my G502 won't ever get stuck on my Goliathus TL Edition or Taito Control no matter how slow I move the mouse, so, I guess QcK is too slow and/or G502 feet aren't good enough on slow pads.
Click to expand...

My Roccat Kone was gliding perfectly on my QcK, but the G502 does not. Then I switched the pad out with a Roccat Taito and it was better, but still not perfect. It's perfect with new feet, the original feet on the G502 sucks donkey dirk to be honest.


----------



## hza

Never experienced what you describe to the slightest, but again. G502 standard feet might not be the best, but QcK is a crap pad nontheless. I tried a few QcKs in the past (QcK mousesports Edition, QcK mass, QcK+ SK Edition, QcK+ fnatic Edition). I liked only the SK and fnatic ones because they used a different coating. Standard QcKs are trash for me because of higher friction and let my hand/wrist sweat faster than any other pad I've ever tried. I assume they're made out of the cheapest material or something like that. I can't explain the difference otherwise. The only good thing about them is they're failry cheap.


----------



## nyxagamemnon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nixtix*
> 
> Received a Spectrum version of the the g502 as an RMA. It's a real shame they didn't take the opportunity to lighten the mouse to 100 grams at least with this version...


At least their support was to help you







I'm just returning my G502 to the retailer and never touching it with a 10 foot poll. Logitech's support is garbage. Tried to RMA the mouse for a defective scroll wheel that would just scroll by itself simply by moving the mouse and after 5 days of waiting for a reply I get a generic message, called them up and was ran through hoops and it reached no where....

Needless to say this was just a pitiful experience with Logitech my first one ever I have many of their products mice etc and it was just to the point that they pissed me off so much that I'm dumping all there products I have.

The mouse was great but the scroll wheel problem drove me mad websites/etc would just scroll down as I would move the mouse lol. And their support <- lol.


----------



## hza

@nyxagamemnon Where are you from? I'm from Austria. I once asked Logitech support for buying replacement feet for the G500. They said they don't produce them anymore, but offered me a new mouse instead. The guy on the phone said I'll receive a G500s, but in the end they sent me a G502. That was the first and only time I contacted their support. I never had a problem with any Logitech product and I buy their stuff since 2003 or 2004. And even though I wanted to buy replacement feet for an older mouse, I ended up receiving a new mouse. Maybe you were unlucky and just contaced the "wrong guy" like some employee who didn't care about your problem. I don't know.


----------



## nyxagamemnon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> @nyxagamemnon Where are you from? I'm from Austria. I once asked Logitech support for buying replacement feet for the G500. They said they don't produce them anymore, but offered me a new mouse instead. The guy on the phone said I'll receive a G500s, but in the end they sent me a G502. That was the first and only time I contacted their support. I never had a problem with any Logitech product and I buy their stuff since 2003 or 2004. And even though I wanted to buy replacement feet for an older mouse, I ended up receiving a new mouse. Maybe you were unlucky and just contaced the "wrong guy" like some employee who didn't care about your problem. I don't know.


I'm in the US. Called there support and was sent to there Outsourced Philippines support call center. I used there online section to submit my RMA, Linked to threads on there own forum with the same issue.... explained it uploaded all correct information and the run around begins. Anyway called them again got someone in the US. They just said return to the retailer lol









Anyway that's what I'm going to do.


----------



## hza

@nyxagamemnon That's weird. Maybe I got a new mouse because I had an old mouse reached EoL before. but yeah. You can always return stuff to retailer. I don't know exact warranty by law for you guys, but here we get 2 years except when you damage something intentionally like.... Idk... Smash something 'dead' with a hammer.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> I've bought 2 Razer products, both were returned within a couple of days. You honestly have to look real hard to find such low quality for such a high price with other brands.


SShhhhh keep it quiet because a lot of Razer Felchers will be upset when you post such truth here on OCN







.

Besides if I had to choose between a used G502 and any Razer Model, it'll always be the G502 by a mile.


----------



## Nixtix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyxagamemnon*
> 
> At least their support was to help you
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just returning my G502 to the retailer and never touching it with a 10 foot poll. Logitech's support is garbage. Tried to RMA the mouse for a defective scroll wheel that would just scroll by itself simply by moving the mouse and after 5 days of waiting for a reply I get a generic message, called them up and was ran through hoops and it reached no where....
> 
> Needless to say this was just a pitiful experience with Logitech my first one ever I have many of their products mice etc and it was just to the point that they pissed me off so much that I'm dumping all there products I have.
> 
> The mouse was great but the scroll wheel problem drove me mad websites/etc would just scroll down as I would move the mouse lol. And their support <- lol.


Logitech still has the best RMA support in my opinion. A while back they exchanged my old MX518 (1600 dpi version) even though it was clearly out of warranty with a brand new 1800 dpi BNIB. It has gotten worse though, their telephone line was non-existent when I tried calling and the whole process did take a month for me to get a replacement, but they still honored the the warranty and didn't even request I send the broken g502 back.


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> I've bought 2 Razer products, both were returned within a couple of days. You honestly have to look real hard to find such low quality for such a high price with other brands.
> 
> 
> 
> SShhhhh keep it quiet because a lot of Razer Felchers will be upset when you post such truth here on OCN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Besides if I had to choose between a used G502 and any Razer Model, it'll always be the G502 by a mile.
Click to expand...

Oh that's ok, someone deleted it haha


----------



## falcon26

After using this mouse for few days some notes. The mouse is heavy even without the weights in it. Lots of buttons I find myself accidentally pushing the wrong button from time to time. The scroll wheel is heavy also and after a while my finger fells a bit tired. The look of the mouse is actually rather ugly IMO. As far as actually use goes it certainly is a fine mouse, tracking is excellent and it feels good in the hand in a claw style grip or fingertip style. I do not like the G logo though seems kind of lame IMO. I think the mouse is too busy looking, I like a mouse with a scroll wheel 2 side buttons and no LED stuff. But again hardware wise its a top notch mouse....


----------



## loler

Bought the G502 and I got to say the sensor is AMAZING.

I removed the bottom cover to lose a few grams more and used some tape to cover the two holes, just to be safe.

I'll get used to the wheel but it really is a weird one. I have 18cm hands and I use the fingertip grip, works very well and my palm doesn't touch the mouse like with the Deathadder. The buttons are great too, I just find weird that all the "modern" mices have way heavier clicks than what I was used to. Maybe I'm getting weaker









The cable is not bad but is not good either. Too stiff but I'll buy a bungee or something.

Overall I'm happy with my purchase and would really recommend it.

Oh, I can't really hit the sniper button that easily with my grip and hand size. I'm trying to think a good way of fixing this, maybe glueing something on top of it to extend the button size.


----------



## missalaire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> You can get some pretty darn cheap ones here, and they're great http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G502-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition-/121402762810


Having tried both the Hotline Games feet you linked and the Tiger Gaming 2015 version (performance 1mm PTFE), I recommend the Tiger Gaming ones over those. Much better longevity and glide.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tiger-Gaming-Logitech-G502-Mouse-Feet-2015-Edition-/121573737242?var=&hash=item1c4e5c031a:m:mVyPxUtSvA11E_eTdIZQxug


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *missalaire*
> 
> Having tried both the Hotline Games feet you linked and the Tiger Gaming 2015 version (performance 1mm PTFE), I recommend the Tiger Gaming ones over those. Much better longevity and glide.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tiger-Gaming-Logitech-G502-Mouse-Feet-2015-Edition-/121573737242?var=&hash=item1c4e5c031a:m:mVyPxUtSvA11E_eTdIZQxug


Seriously there are cheaper by 40% than takasa . please check other sellers before ordering. Can't tolerate expensive sellers in eBay .


----------



## ChromeBeauty

Strange, most others seem to prefer the Hotline games skates and have complained about the quality of the Tiger skates.

BTW you should mention on what surfaces the live longer and glide better.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChromeBeauty*
> 
> Strange, most others seem to prefer the Hotline games skates and have complained about the quality of the Tiger skates.
> 
> BTW you should mention on what surfaces the live longer and glide better.


The tiger is somewhat bigger yes. I find hard time to make them fit like hotline.


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *missalaire*
> 
> Having tried both the Hotline Games feet you linked and the Tiger Gaming 2015 version (performance 1mm PTFE), I recommend the Tiger Gaming ones over those. Much better longevity and glide.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tiger-Gaming-Logitech-G502-Mouse-Feet-2015-Edition-/121573737242?var=&hash=item1c4e5c031a:m:mVyPxUtSvA11E_eTdIZQxug
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously there are cheaper by 40% than takasa . please check other sellers before ordering. Can't tolerate expensive sellers in eBay .
Click to expand...

Looks like you only get 1 set for the same price. With the Hotline ones you get 2 sets.


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *missalaire*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> You can get some pretty darn cheap ones here, and they're great http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hotline-Games-Logitech-G502-Mouse-Feet-2014-Edition-/121402762810
> 
> 
> 
> Having tried both the Hotline Games feet you linked and the Tiger Gaming 2015 version (performance 1mm PTFE), I recommend the Tiger Gaming ones over those. Much better longevity and glide.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tiger-Gaming-Logitech-G502-Mouse-Feet-2015-Edition-/121573737242?var=&hash=item1c4e5c031a:m:mVyPxUtSvA11E_eTdIZQxug
Click to expand...

I'll try them when I've gone through my Hotline feet


----------



## Amw86

anyone know if the G700s scroll wheel will work on the G502? Thing is just too damn slippery, and what are best mouse feet replacement options are?

(I see the hotline and tiger gaming options)


----------



## Nixtix

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amw86*
> 
> anyone know if the G700s scroll wheel will work on the G502? Thing is just too damn slippery, and what are best mouse feet replacement options are?
> 
> (I see the hotline and tiger gaming options)


I think the one I ordered is for the g700, and it worked fine.


----------



## Amw86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nixtix*
> 
> I think the one I ordered is for the g700, and it worked fine.


great now I need to tear my scroll wheel out









maybe I'll just buy one since I was gonna sell my g700s, although I suppose someone would probably buy a g700s with a g502 scroll wheel in it haha.

I haven't looked at the mouse yet but I'm assuming the screws are under the mouse feet? once you rip em off do you need to replace em or can they be re-used? I've only ever replaced old skates before.


----------



## jamsomito

This mouse is being phased out for the newer Proteus Spectrum. The only thing they changed is the LED is now RGB, controllable through Logitech software, and the thumb rest is black instead of blue. On this one, the LED is always blue, but you can turn it off and on in the Logitech software.

I'm calling this the same as the new Spectrum variant, but RGB doesn't appeal to me. So, you're getting a $80 mouse for $50. Good deal IMO. It's the same price here new as amazon has it for a refurb unit (new still $70). FYI, I got dinged with tax, an extra $2.99 - YMMV for that.

Logitech G502 Proteus Core, $49.99 + FS @ bestbuy.com
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/logitech...&skuId=4642008


----------



## hza

G502 RGB will be cheaper in 2-3 months as G502 non-RGB got cheaper 2-3 months after realease, don't worry


----------



## Amw86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jamsomito*
> 
> This mouse is being phased out for the newer Proteus Spectrum. The only thing they changed is the LED is now RGB, controllable through Logitech software, and the thumb rest is black instead of blue. On this one, the LED is always blue, but you can turn it off and on in the Logitech software.
> 
> I'm calling this the same as the new Spectrum variant, but RGB doesn't appeal to me. So, you're getting a $80 mouse for $50. Good deal IMO. It's the same price here new as amazon has it for a refurb unit (new still $70). FYI, I got dinged with tax, an extra $2.99 - YMMV for that.
> 
> Logitech G502 Proteus Core, $49.99 + FS @ bestbuy.com
> http://www.bestbuy.com/site/logitech...&skuId=4642008


i just snagged mine pricematched for walmart a couple days ago, haha


----------



## Phreec

Anyone else randomly find your games' sensitivity doubled, as if you'd be using 800 CPI in the 3D part of the game (moving camera/pointing gun around) but the 2D parts (desktop, in-game menus, etc) remains at (intended) 400 CPI?

Only way to fix it is with a reboot, however it randomly reappears after reboots too.


----------



## Amw86

yes, but just swapping dpi back and forth fixs it for me, I've found that it will randomly go to a dpi that I don't even have set.


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phreec*
> 
> Anyone else randomly find your games' sensitivity doubled, as if you'd be using 800 CPI in the 3D part of the game (moving camera/pointing gun around) but the 2D parts (desktop, in-game menus, etc) remains at (intended) 400 CPI?
> 
> Only way to fix it is with a reboot, however it randomly reappears after reboots too.


Do you have the software installed and running? If yes, that's probably why. I tuned my mouse and got rid of the software pretty quickly. Logitech isn't known for stable or good mouse drivers.

Oh and to answer your question, no I don't have that problem.


----------



## hza

@TheBDK What brands are known for stable or good mouse drivers?


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> @TheBDK What brands are known for stable or good mouse drivers?


The one without drivers


----------



## hza

bs answer, should have expected.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

BS answer? M8 best answer to anything is onboard memory


----------



## bruzanHD

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> bs answer, should have expected.


To be fair, no comapany has that great third party drivers. So he is right.


----------



## x7007

Did anyone have this issue ? like my mouse does double click with the left button, but it's 20% randomly.

http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Logitech-G-Mice/G502-Gaming-Software-Drag-amp-Drop-files-issue/td-p/1370468/page/2


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> @TheBDK What brands are known for stable or good mouse drivers?


Roccat is pretty darn good.



No bloat
Super low memory usage
Fast
Lots and lots of settings


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> No bloat
> Super low memory usage
> Fast
> Lots and lots of settings


Anything that clogs the operating system is "BLOAT" and what the guy said earlier, just use a mouse with no 3rd party drivers because it will interfere with performance in someway, especially for you hard-core freaks residing here on OCN.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> Do you have the software installed and running? If yes, that's probably why. I tuned my mouse and got rid of the software pretty quickly. Logitech isn't known for stable or good mouse drivers.
> 
> Oh and to answer your question, no I don't have that problem.


Current Logitech software doesn't interfere with your tracking. FUD nonsense.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> bs answer, should have expected.


Don't expect too much out of posters like that. Forum went downhill fast.

Exhibit A:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bruzanHD*
> 
> To be fair, no comapany has that great third party drivers. So he is right.


On what foundation?









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Elrick*
> 
> Anything that clogs the operating system is "BLOAT" and what the guy said earlier, just use a mouse with no 3rd party drivers because it will interfere with performance in someway, especially for you hard-core freaks residing here on OCN.


Exhibit B.


----------



## hza

@TheBDK I know Roccat. I like their software because it offers a lot of customization, but still being "clean". I like their quality standards of products most of the time and their in my opinion innovating designs of (new) products. And I only know Roccat and Logitech doing their own Firmware. However, I didn't ever notice my mouse was lagging because of the Logitech software. I don't know about you, but I don't use a Pentium III/IV anymore. My notebook's CPU can handle quite some tasks without trouble. I can't see anything not working.


----------



## 331149

wow so much butthurt in this thread haha.


----------



## hza

wow some people's knowledge based on nothing haha


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hza*
> 
> wow some people's knowledge based on nothing haha


If you dont know that Logitechs software has had issues in the past with numerous games, you've been living under a rock. It's common knowledge even at this point in time.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

Drivers are just another place for stuff to go wrong. All you need is on board memory and a low profile software that allows you to change the settings without having to install all the crap that LGS makes you install.


----------



## Melan

You have much worse crap installed already. LGS won't make your day worse if you're clueless about keeping your PC clean.


----------



## Zenith Phantasm

I dont have alot of crap installed. My PC is as barebones as they come.


----------



## Amw86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Did anyone have this issue ? like my mouse does double click with the left button, but it's 20% randomly.
> 
> http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Logitech-G-Mice/G502-Gaming-Software-Drag-amp-Drop-files-issue/td-p/1370468/page/2


Normally a sign of a switch thats starting to fail.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Amw86*
> 
> Normally a sign of a switch thats starting to fail.


Is it easy to replace the switch ? Can I buy from eBay and do it ? Will Logitech give me warranty if it shows eBay on the recipiet ?

How do I know which is original from ebay ? there are some differences between them with the letters.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=omron+d2fc+f+7n


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> You have much worse crap installed already. LGS won't make your day worse if you're clueless about keeping your PC clean.


Depending on the game, it will. Goooooooooogle it, and you'll see.


----------



## Melan

How about you tell us which games are conflicting with LGS. You seem to know that.


----------



## 331149

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Melan*
> 
> How about you tell us which games are conflicting with LGS. You seem to know that.


How about you start the Google, and stop acting like a complete moron. It's so common knowledge, I cant even imagine anyone questioning this .. It's so unreal


----------



## x7007

Does the logitech G502 arrives with the china made OMRON switches ?

Could I get the japan made and put them instead ? I'll need to solder them right ?

http://www.amazon.com/OMRON-D2F-01F-T-Switch-Microswitch-Logitech/dp/B00IJ38YQ2

http://www.mouser.co.il/ProductDetail/Omron-Electronics/D2F-01F-T/?qs=qyG%2fS5Z4lv0nCaM8ueKTRw%3d%3d


----------



## LegoFarmer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Does the logitech G502 arrives with the china made OMRON switches ?
> 
> Could I get the japan made and put them instead ? I'll need to solder them right ?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/OMRON-D2F-01F-T-Switch-Microswitch-Logitech/dp/B00IJ38YQ2
> 
> http://www.mouser.co.il/ProductDetail/Omron-Electronics/D2F-01F-T/?qs=qyG%2fS5Z4lv0nCaM8ueKTRw%3d%3d


You'd have to solder the Japan ones. Be warned that in my experience, they're pretty poor.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LegoFarmer*
> 
> You'd have to solder the Japan ones. Be warned that in my experience, they're pretty poor.


poor means not good or will stop working or just work badly ?

Should I buy the china one and I won't need to solder ? I could replace the gold bar or whatever it's called ?

Does anyone else has the same experience with the japan one ?


----------



## Melan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> How about you start the Google, and stop acting like a complete moron. It's so common knowledge, I cant even imagine anyone questioning this .. It's so unreal


It's easy to question this since you are pretty much clueless. Show which programs have an issue with LGS misbehaving. Because if there are some, I will install them and check.
Spoiler alert: It will work fine.


----------



## SmashTV

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> I can't provide proof it is explicitly LGS causing slowdowns. Disregard my messages.


All you had to say.


----------



## Phreec

For what it's worth LGS drivers were causing DPC latency issues on my PC (behind wdf01000.sys). Nothing a reinstall couldn't fix though.


----------



## cokker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Phreec*
> 
> For what it's worth LGS drivers were causing DPC latency issues on my PC (behind wdf01000.sys). Nothing a reinstall couldn't fix though.


Ugh I've had this issue for nearly a year, seems to only happen after a couple of hours of gaming. Given up trying to fix it...


----------



## Phreec

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cokker*
> 
> Ugh I've had this issue for nearly a year, seems to only happen after a couple of hours of gaming. Given up trying to fix it...


Pretty much same symptoms for me. Audio would start crackling whenever I clicked a mouse button, but only after having had my PC on for some time.

These kind of issues aren't the easiest to troubleshoot either, but at least I could narrow it down to my mouse being the culprit.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBDK*
> 
> Do you have the software installed and running? If yes, that's probably why. I tuned my mouse and got rid of the software pretty quickly. Logitech isn't known for stable or good mouse drivers.
> 
> Oh and to answer your question, no I don't have that problem.


Yeah it's installed and running, kinda need it for the auto-detect and whatnot. Oh well... :/


----------



## x7007

So if the logitech driver has an issue.

Does anyone know if the Mouse Pad Calibration works even after you uninstall the LGS ? because I really need it for my SteelSeries I-2 or else it just doesn't work great.

Does anyone use 1100 or 1000 dpi on hard surface like the SteelSeries I-2 ? it seems to me 1100 has 100% more precision, somehow I was with 1000 till now and it always driven me crazy that it like has weird smoothing or acceleration just couldn't aim right on anything. in windows desktop it felt more than games, but my hand just had pain and I couldn't reach the gaming time.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> So if the logitech driver has an issue.
> 
> Does anyone know if the Mouse Pad Calibration works even after you uninstall the LGS ? because I really need it for my SteelSeries I-2 or else it just doesn't work great.
> 
> Does anyone use 1100 or 1000 dpi on hard surface like the SteelSeries I-2 ? it seems to me 1100 has 100% more precision, somehow I was with 1000 till now and it always driven me crazy that it like has weird smoothing or acceleration just couldn't aim right on anything. in windows desktop it felt more than games, but my hand just had pain and I couldn't reach the gaming time.


There are no issues with LGS installed. Has no effect on tracking or response


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> There are no issues with LGS installed. Has no effect on tracking or response


. What mouse pad you
use ? Did you use calibration ?

There are bugs with the software like dpc issue and mouse click dragging for some people you can find it in the logitech forums. People uninstalled only lgs and the issues resolved.


----------



## 2shellbonus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> . What mouse pad you use ? Did you use calibration ?


Yes, i calibrate my mouse. Both the 502 and 303. I use the Corepad Eyepad pad. Before that i had the puretrak talent


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2shellbonus*
> 
> Yes, i calibrate my mouse. Both the 502 and 303. I use the Corepad Eyepad pad. Before that i had the puretrak talent


one thing I know for sure, if you happen to play with LatencyMon you'll see you have very high ISR and DPC compare to when LGS is not installed, I just checked it for 4 hrs since yesterday I played HoS (Heroes of the Storm) and the DPC didn't move from 300 max on the worst scenario . now when I'm barely doing anything it jumps through the roof. one thing is different though, the DPC can be effected from my Network, but it's another matter, hard to explain it, it me watching from a linux server without gui and torrent client and I watch my movies with potplayer from the network. there is no performance issues or pentaly I can watch the highest BlurRay/Remux/AVC qualities, but randomly the DPC will be effected for some reason, might because of the drivers but it's not actually affect NDIS.SYS. NDIS.SYS is nowhere to be seen even in the most heavy network test I tried to do. the main offender is usually nvlddmkm.sys which I can't figure why the hell. the rest can be wdf01000.sys if LGS is installed. I'm pleading for you to test this and not saying there is penalty on the tracking, it is effecting somewhat on something including the dpc.

this is for example 1:35:45 while watching movies and LGS installed


----------



## x7007

Logitech Gaming Software 8.79.73 + x64

http://forums.logitech.com/t5/Logitech-G-Headsets/LGS-8-79-73-is-up/m-p/1488640


----------



## Weltgeist

Hi,

I want cut some weight on my G502. I don't need the scroll wheel or any button. Is there a pictured guide for this?

Thanks!


----------



## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Weltgeist*
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I want cut some weight on my G502. I don't need the scroll wheel or any button. Is there a pictured guide for this?
> 
> Thanks!


You don't need any buttons? Do you need the sensor? #removemouse


----------



## Weltgeist

Lol.







Of course I need the M1 and M2 buttons! Sensor would be nice too.


----------



## SiZZiGY

Hello Guys!

Thats my first post on this forum and I wanted to share with you my mod of the G502 beacause I found usefull info here and I want to share my experience with you









I have my G502 since almost 1 year, and since the 1st day I regreted the blue color of the led but i'm not enough skilled to replace the SMB LED but I found a way to get the green color







And the other things I don't liked its the wheel like many G502 users and the wight a bit too high







So I decided to mod my mouse!

1st the led color changing : when you set up the mouse for a new mousepad, the lateral leds becomes green so I looked everywhere and I found that the "cyan" blue is a mix of green and blue, then the leds of the proteus core are bicolor green/blue and I decided to broke the blue LED and only save the green one. I proceded with a fine knife and look the result :

As you can see there is two light on this SMB, both looks like blue but they aren't! The bottom one is green and you can see it by setting the color strengh at the minimal settings. Unfortunately its hard to see on the photo:


Once the conector destroyed, only the green side remain










Before to start there is the weight of the G502 with my balance


And this is all what I removed


Then I removed the scroll wheel



And cutted some "useless" pastic parts





The most difficult, remove the useless (for me) blue grip


Isn't very sexy but nobody will see it







(except the whole internet







)


Once the blue "thing" painted to green and mouse assembled, there is the result




In reality the green color match perfectly i'm very happy about it, and the last this is how many grams is the mouse lighter?


I won 15 grams, a new wheel and new green color without changing the LED







So I hope this will maybe help someone else









PS : Sry for my poor english


----------



## Alya

Good job, now lets see you get it under 100g. I would find that as something that is really interesting to see.


----------



## SiZZiGY

Thanks Alya, I'm thinking about it









And I just checked more reviews about the G502 and its seems that the single mouse weight is about 121g (and I started at 126), so my balance isn't realy accurate (or there is a little part of cable inside the weight), I need another one to be sure about my result because in theory if the mouse is 15g lighter, that means that the real weight must be about 106g!


----------



## ramraze

Good job but still way too heavy for me


----------



## vanir1337

Great job, SiZZiGY! I always love to see mods like this.


----------



## SiZZiGY

Thanks vanir1337


----------



## Bucake

cool mod! nice pictures too


----------



## TK421

Anyone notice that the 2 mousefeet near the sensor doesn't get any friction from the mousepad at all?

My other feet is shiny because of normal wear, but not the 2 pieces near the sensor.


----------



## SiZZiGY

Personnaly I use just 2 feets the top and the bottom one, the others still useless...

And I wanted to ask you, if someone know where to buy the new scroll whell of the G900 it will be very nice on the G502!


----------



## hatlesschimp

Just picked up the G502. Its pretty SICK! But Ive only used it for desktop use so far LOL. Seriously I like the way it fits in my hand and its weight out of the box.


----------



## zantetheo

After 1 year with G502 i finally decided to buy a really light mouse for gaming. I bought yesterday G302.

My fist impressions are that it is perfect for my little hands and really light at 90 grams. Too easy to play fps games

I got the G302 for the weight and i'm really really impressed how it performs in FPS games.

I will still use the G502 for general use (i love the free wheel scroll) but for gaming G302 hands down


----------



## TK421

If it wasn't for the ******ed diamond shape...


----------



## evmota21

Hello guys,

I've had the Logitech G502 for over a year now, and the double click issue just appeared. I also had a Deathadder who also had this problem for over a year of use. my G502 is unusable now. My problem is that, because I really like this mouse, should I buy another one? Or should I try the m65, or the G302? I would like a mouse that does not get this issue that fast... I am tired of it.


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *evmota21*
> 
> Hello guys,
> 
> I've had the Logitech G502 for over a year now, and the double click issue just appeared. I also had a Deathadder who also had this problem for over a year of use. my G502 is unusable now. My problem is that, because I really like this mouse, should I buy another one? Or should I try the m65, or the G302? I would like a mouse that does not get this issue that fast... I am tired of it.


You can clean it , buy switches , open them , and change the golden thing with the new one and it will be like new.


----------



## evmota21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> You can clean it , buy switches , open them , and change the golden thing with the new one and it will be like new.


Where do you buy these switches?


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *evmota21*
> 
> Where do you buy these switches?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1394542/omron-d2fc-f-7n-micro-switch-reference-image#post_24904661

EBay or amazon


----------



## SiZZiGY

Or maybe you don't neet to buy, have you another old mouse to sacrifice? Most of the mousses have Omron switches compatibles with each others, just remove one from an old and useless mouse and put it in your g502


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SiZZiGY*
> 
> Or maybe you don't neet to buy, have you another old mouse to sacrifice? Most of the mousses have Omron switches compatibles with each others, just remove one from an old and useless mouse and put it in your g502


Ye but it's barely 7$ I think I got 5 for even less. New is better cause it will stop working soon enough, so newer is longer .


----------



## Bucake

you might not need to get a new switch. i have fixed mice with (double) clicking issues before by simply stretching the small metal part responsible for the click and tactility. i suggest you try it out before you go through the extra trouble..


----------



## x7007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> you might not need to get a new switch. I have fixed mice with (double) clicking issues before by simply stretching the small metal part responsible for the click and tactility. i suggest you try it out before you go through the extra trouble..


Did anyone do a video guide cause i am not sure I understand I know what to do .


----------



## Bucake

i found this: 




though, he bends the leaf whereas i straightened it..
i actually don't know which one is the better approach, so i suggest you figure that out yourself 
edit: after taking another look, i think a combination of the two would be best. but.. i might be wrong








but at least the video shows you how to open the switch and which part needs to be 'fixed' quite clearly.

before you open the switch, i suggest placing a small piece of tape over the actual "button" so that it doesn't fall out. it can be a pain to put it back in, unless you have a good, very small piece of tweezers.

for reference, when i put the metal part back in:
i start by placing the back of the part in the small "hole" (left arrow), then i slide the front/hammer into place (right arrow), then i push the leaf down (middle arrow).









picture taking from this guide: http://www.instructables.com/id/Repair-mouse-with-double-click-problem/step8/reinstall-tension-spring/
the pictures might be helpful in case the youtube video did not do it for you.

two last things:
- you might under do it, in this case you will still have a clicking issue.
for this reason, plug the mouse in and test the switch *before* you close up the entire mouse! if the issue is still there, unplug the mouse and bend/straighten the leaf even further.
- lastly, you might 'overdo' it, making the switch a lot stiffer than you'd like it to be. so when you close the switch after fixing it, test the switch to see if it's not too stiff for you.

..that should about cover it, i think


----------



## ronaldoz

Just ordered the G502 RGB, including CM Storm Swift-RX Medium. Will this mousepad works well / great?



*Update*

Was using a Logitech Performance MX (cordless laser 1500dpi). The mousepad is awesome, great feel and looks. The mouse is awesome too. Just feels a bit weird at first, but I need to hold the mouse a bit different then I would naturally do. If I do it naturally, I will have my thumb full on the sniper button, but that will not fit for my handpalm. If I place my thumb a bit to the back, it fits perfectly and also opens more methods to get grip on the mouse. I'm totally fine with that. For the mousepad I was using a small pad, that was doing fine, but I love this one for beeing bigger!


----------



## evmota21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> i found this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> though, he bends the leaf whereas i straightened it..
> i actually don't know which one is the better approach, so i suggest you figure that out yourself
> edit: after taking another look, i think a combination of the two would be best. but.. i might be wrong
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but at least the video shows you how to open the switch and which part needs to be 'fixed' quite clearly.
> 
> before you open the switch, i suggest placing a small piece of tape over the actual "button" so that it doesn't fall out. it can be a pain to put it back in, unless you have a good, very small piece of tweezers.
> 
> for reference, when i put the metal part back in:
> i start by placing the back of the part in the small "hole" (left arrow), then i slide the front/hammer into place (right arrow), then i push the leaf down (middle arrow).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> picture taking from this guide: http://www.instructables.com/id/Repair-mouse-with-double-click-problem/step8/reinstall-tension-spring/
> the pictures might be helpful in case the youtube video did not do it for you.
> 
> two last things:
> - you might under do it, in this case you will still have a clicking issue.
> for this reason, plug the mouse in and test the switch *before* you close up the entire mouse! if the issue is still there, unplug the mouse and bend/straighten the leaf even further.
> - lastly, you might 'overdo' it, making the switch a lot stiffer than you'd like it to be. so when you close the switch after fixing it, test the switch to see if it's not too stiff for you.
> 
> ..that should about cover it, i think


So I did this for both my Deathadder 2013 and my g502. It fixed the issue for both but the Deathadder started double clicking again with 1 moth of use. I started using my g502 again which I fixed, hopefully it does not give up. If it does, I will probably get a g302.


----------



## Bucake

the double-click returned to my 3g DA after a short while as well, so then i just decided to put some proper force on that leaf. it did stiffen up the click a bit but i haven't seen the clicking issue return in months now. so i suggest just being a bit more aggressive when you work that leaf.


----------



## evmota21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> the double-click returned to my 3g DA after a short while as well, so then i just decided to put some proper force on that leaf. it did stiffen up the click a bit but i haven't seen the clicking issue return in months now. so i suggest just being a bit more aggressive when you work that leaf.


By straightening the leaf you mean literally to make it flatter?


----------



## Falkentyne

You guys are doing this completely the wrong way.

Don't flatten the leaf ! You're supposed to spray deoxit D5 on the contacts inside! I just fixed switch chattering on my Omron fightstick microswitch (Sanwa JLF) by just opening the switch and spraying Deoxit on the two parts that connect when the switch lever is depressed.

The reason you had temporary fixes is because flexing the lever temporarily cleaned what was dirty or made a better contact, without fixing or cleaning what was dirty.


----------



## evmota21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Falkentyne*
> 
> You guys are doing this completely the wrong way.
> 
> Don't flatten the leaf ! You're supposed to spray deoxit D5 on the contacts inside! I just fixed switch chattering on my Omron fightstick microswitch (Sanwa JLF) by just opening the switch and spraying Deoxit on the two parts that connect when the switch lever is depressed.
> 
> The reason you had temporary fixes is because flexing the lever temporarily cleaned what was dirty or made a better contact, without fixing or cleaning what was dirty.


I see, I will try that! By the way, is there an easy way to open the switches because last time I opened them I struggled a lot.


----------



## Falkentyne

Beats me. I never opened any mouse switch successfully. I couldn't do it on the deathadder. I guess you need special tools.
The large version of Cherry and Omron switches (the ones made for controllers) are much bigger and open up almost as easy as taking a lid off a pot...the housing comes right off.


----------



## Bucake

you just need something that's thin and strong (as in not too bendy). a sharp knife does a fine job as long as you can aim it well enough. i used a stanley myself. i also tried a safety razor blade, but it was too bendy / light and it wouldn't get the switch open.
the "actual" concern is if there's anything obstructing you trying to pry the switch open. with some mice it's harder to reach the spot where you have to put something in-between those two parts, and then it becomes a different sport

you can find it with google. there are videos and pictures showing others doing it


----------



## evmota21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> you just need something that's thin and strong (as in not too bendy). a sharp knife does a fine job as long as you can aim it well enough. i used a stanley myself. i also tried a safety razor blade, but it was too bendy / light and it wouldn't get the switch open.
> the "actual" concern is if there's anything obstructing you trying to pry the switch open. with some mice it's harder to reach the spot where you have to put something in-between those two parts, and then it becomes a different sport
> 
> you can find it with google. there are videos and pictures showing others doing it


I could not find the video showing someone opening an omron switch. It is annoying that these mice that cost 60-80 dollars are needed to be repaired after 10-13 months of use.


----------



## Falkentyne

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> you just need something that's thin and strong (as in not too bendy). a sharp knife does a fine job as long as you can aim it well enough. i used a stanley myself. i also tried a safety razor blade, but it was too bendy / light and it wouldn't get the switch open.
> the "actual" concern is if there's anything obstructing you trying to pry the switch open. with some mice it's harder to reach the spot where you have to put something in-between those two parts, and then it becomes a different sport
> 
> you can find it with google. there are videos and pictures showing others doing it


Any links, please? I can't find anything meaningful.


----------



## Bucake

i think he uses some kind of special tweezers or something


----------



## evmota21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i think he uses some kind of special tweezers or something


Well there it is. I am going to try to clean the contacts and see if my DeathAdder works again.

EDIT: Thanks bro!


----------



## Falkentyne

Thank you.
It's clear though I can't open it without tools







Sigh.


----------



## qsxcv

for d2fc-f-7n's, all you need is a 1mm flathead screwdriver. tweezer helps obviously if the plunger falls out of place

you don't need to remove the spring, and in my experience, it's very difficult to remove and restore the spring without some plastic deformation.
i fixed the switches in one of my old g100s's by scratching the contacts with a small screwdriver., without taking out the spring.


----------



## evmota21

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> for d2fc-f-7n's, all you need is a 1mm flathead screwdriver. tweezer helps obviously if the plunger falls out of place
> 
> you don't need to remove the spring, and in my experience, it's very difficult to remove and restore the spring without some plastic deformation.
> i fixed the switches in one of my old g100s's by scratching the contacts with a small screwdriver., without taking out the spring.


This should also help, thanks!


----------



## Shinden

Hello, got my spectrum core but I have an issue : I have set the mousefix over windows and I feel my mouse less accurate, I heard that the g502 could mess up and have a lost of accuracy.

Is there any efficient ways to fully reset it?

When you play with it, you can normally feel something not fully raw, the processor works, here it is like it bugged.

Regardless my issues, the mice is very comfortable and very ergonomic over the sides. the front is well welcoming the fingers for a good grip but the mail problem in the mouth is that the middle/bottom humpback is too classical, too high and not enough worked compare to the rest of the mouse. That is very sad.

The mousescrool is addictive and reliable despite its noise that should have been prevented. Mice is reactive but not as reactive as last razer diamondback, its main issue comes from the feet skates that are already in bad shape. The buttons looks strange but all in all, it's well thought even if it's not that well inserted inside the mice, the left click and the dpi led are quite a good example since there is a little gap.

The g502 seems to have a relible and accurate sensor, that is very nice, not as good as people call it but kinda great, wish I still had the diamondback to do the difference but it's definitely better than the mamba (they both use same sensors, but for idk which reasons, the diamondback tracking is really great).

The wire is strong, nice, better than rubber since it'll last longer. The sniper button is too far further however.This is a silver instead of gold at the edge of the wire but so far I remember, the silver have better qualities than gold for transmission and so much more which is why it's more looked for in the industries. It's quite satisfying mouse but really need for the price to have a better design job, stronger drivers since people complains about fact the mouse can "lose" accuracy, it's a good prototype I would say but not a final product.


----------



## doors1991

Mine too.
We have this problem : http://www.overclock.net/t/1498681/inconsistent-tracking-on-logitech-g502


----------



## Shinden

I'll read the thread too, sad that you have issues.


----------



## doors1991

I also have the castor to play cs go.


----------



## jjpjimmy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doors1991*
> 
> Mine too.
> We have this problem : http://www.overclock.net/t/1498681/inconsistent-tracking-on-logitech-g502


... So a fault between the monitor and mouse?


----------



## ncck

Can you guys stop using mouse fix which was like for Windows XP ages ago

All you do is turn off enhanced pointer precision and that's it. If you ever feel your mouse is less responsive your mouse feet are making more contact or wearing that's about it most of the time

If it's more crazy than that replace the mouse


----------



## Shinden

http://www.overclock.net/t/1522857/how-i-debugged-the-g502-read-logitech-people

Could be a solution.


----------



## TK421

What the maximum dpi on g502 without jitter?


----------



## Bucake

what surface you use influences it a little.

i suggest that you just increase the cpi, and then check in Paint (with the Pencil tool at 1px Size) how clean circles and diagonal lines at various angles look to you.
because there aren't any key-points at which jitter suddenly goes up by a huge amount. gradually you'll see it go up, per step.


----------



## TK421

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bucake*
> 
> what surface you use influences it a little.
> 
> i suggest that you just increase the cpi, and then check in Paint (with the Pencil tool at 1px Size) how clean circles and diagonal lines at various angles look to you.
> because there aren't any key-points at which jitter suddenly goes up by a huge amount. gradually you'll see it go up, per step.


black cloth mousepad


----------



## drapos

Is this wear down on wheel finish barely normal?




Mice is around 9 months old, and I'm very careful with all my gear. Other than that, mouse shows no other sign of wear down, but wheel is just destroyed somehow when I was expecting it to last forever. I noticed it now because it looked like a light reflection, and it is still easily confused with that, but it is actually the paint finish totally peeled down.

Could I RMA it for this expecting a more durable wheel?


----------



## Falkentyne

Does the wheel work?
if it works, then no, you can't RMA for 'wear and tear.' I see nothing wrong with a 'shiny wheel' except wear and tear.
My day 1 G502 wheel doesn't look anything like that, but the side grips are completely melted from pressure. And I'm not RMA'ing.

Also if you don't want to open the mouse shell, flaky wheel sensors can be cleaned by taking some Deoxit D5 and some very thin tool, even a paper clip, spraying lightly down the edges of the center sides, then using the paper clip to clean any junk in that area. You could also help with putting a lint free cloth around the edge, just make sure you don't puncture it. A Q-tip may or may not fit in there, as I don't have any.


----------



## MuscleBound

How does this compare to the shape of the G500s?
Same shape and height or different???


----------



## f1LL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MuscleBound*
> 
> How does this compare to the shape of the G500s?
> Same shape and height or different???


I never had a G500s but judging from pictures it seems to have the same shape as the MX510 and MX518 and I can compare it to those.

The G502 is similar in shape but not the same. The length feels the same but it is narrower than the MX51x from side to side. Another difference in the shape is that the apex/highest point of the mouse is set a little further to the back (towards palm/arm) than it is on the MX51x. Overall though the changes in shape are small enough so that the feeling of the old shape is still very recognisable when holding the G502 and therefor the mice do feel similar.

Hope this helps a little.


----------



## Ino.

lol @ 1:13


----------



## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol @ 1:13


I just about died laughing at that point, and when he did the foot and back hand grip. lol


----------



## x7007

How can I see the stats that you see here after mouse pad calibration ?






Should I use the Mouse Pad Calibration for SteelSeries I2 Glass mouse pad?


----------



## c0dy

From the comments/a reddit post linked to that video



Probably the most accurate. Or it has just been edited into to video.


----------



## Maximillion

Did you try right clicking and hitting "stats for nerds"?

kappa


----------



## Majentrix

Just got my G502 in the mail and coming from a Mionix Avior 7000, I gotta say this mouse has the best left and right click I've ever seen. It's so good I could click this thing for hours.


----------



## whitrzac

The scroll wheel is really starting to annoy me..

It's not balanced, so when you stop scrolling on a page, it can rock forward/back a few lines.


----------



## SirWaWa

I only notice it on free scroll. Locked it does not.


----------



## cokker

Just did a quick free wheel test (December 2014 bought), I can't seem to notice a heavy point on the wheel, when it stops it stops.

I guess this annoyance is a manufacturing and or batch issue.


----------



## Ufasas

that sexy review though, hahaha, this dude is funny, english.. people, haha funny blokes


----------



## sjzorilla

Hey guys wanna see a dank meme?



"featherweight" ha


----------



## majnu

The G502 RGB I noticed has dropped in price again, is there anything rumoured at Computex as a successor? My G502 has unfortunately developed double clicking and is just outside of it's 3 year warranty, so whilst I don't mind buying another one if there is a lighter/revised version in the horizon I can wait.

Thanks


----------



## x7007

there are no better mouse with better sensor or same with better design?


----------



## Rayndalf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *majnu*
> 
> The G502 RGB I noticed has dropped in price again, is there anything rumoured at Computex as a successor? My G502 has unfortunately developed double clicking and is just outside of it's 3 year warranty, so whilst I don't mind buying another one if there is a lighter/revised version in the horizon I can wait.
> 
> Thanks


Its hard to say. If recent Logitech releases are anything to go on, a G502 successor could be hinted at and advertised, or leaked and haphazardly released. I have to wonder why a couple of leaked images of the G403 were enough to potentially cannibalize the Gpro; a product with a higher profit margin (being the evolution of an office mouse, the Gpro is much simpler internally despite using the same 3366 sensor as the G403, G900, G502, and G303).

If you like the G502 shape, there isn't much better. Sensor-wise, the 3366 is still the top of the line. If you like the G502 but want something lighter and can let a few buttons go, the G403 is a good choice, otherwise I recommend scooping up a replacement G502 in the coming months (remember when the G303 was $25... now its the same price as the Gpro), and/or replacing the defective Omron in your current unit, you don't want to become that guy who hunts for MX518s despite the G400/G400s having better sensors in the same shell


----------



## TK421

My G502 turns 3 years old today.

Still fully working!


----------



## RocketAbyss

Yup! I liked my first G502 so much that I bought the Spectrum version too! I use the new one at home and the older first edition one at work! Almost 3 years since the first one too


----------



## x7007

When using the Mouse Pad Calibration do I need to keep LGS running ? if I close it would it still work ? if so can I uninstall LGS , would it still work then ? I can't figure if it saved to the mouse memory or you need the software.


----------



## tech99

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayndalf*
> 
> Its hard to say. If recent Logitech releases are anything to go on, a G502 successor could be hinted at and advertised, or leaked and haphazardly released. I have to wonder why a couple of leaked images of the G403 were enough to potentially cannibalize the Gpro; a product with a higher profit margin (being the evolution of an office mouse, the Gpro is much simpler internally despite using the same 3366 sensor as the G403, G900, G502, and G303).
> 
> If you like the G502 shape, there isn't much better. Sensor-wise, the 3366 is still the top of the line. If you like the G502 but want something lighter and can let a few buttons go, the G403 is a good choice, otherwise I recommend scooping up a replacement G502 in the coming months (remember when the G303 was $25... now its the same price as the Gpro), and/or replacing the defective Omron in your current unit, you don't want to become that guy who hunts for MX518s despite the G400/G400s having better sensors in the same shell


I really love the G502 except for the weight which is just too much for playing comfortably for long periods of time. That is the ONLY reason for which I've tried many different mouse but none of them felt as good as the G502. Before that, G500 was my preferred mouse and I was very happy with it. For me, the shapes which I prefer the most would be G500/G502>>EC1-A>>ZA12 .

So if I want to get a mouse which has shape similar to the G502, then G403 is the one that I should get? Are there any other mouses which should I look into?


----------



## Rayndalf

I'd dig some better pictures before I jumped to purchase one for anything close to MSRP, but the G403 looks like it might work
Honestly though, a new (fresh... not necassarily different) mousepad or set of feet will reduce friction enough to improve your experience, but the G502 will still be a beast to lift.


----------



## Opiumden23

I tried a friend's g502 about a year ago and recently bought one for myself. I'm really not liking it, but I might be the only person to have this issue. Both my friend's and my own are like this. As soon as I put my hand on it, the thumb rest area creaks. It moves just enough to be perceivable and it bothers the hell out of me. My g400 is completely solid in comparison. No, I am not using a death grip on the thing either. Besides the loose, creaky case, but buttons seem alright. The surface textures could be better as well. Does anyone else notice the loose, creaky body?


----------



## Rayndalf

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Opiumden23*
> 
> I tried a friend's g502 about a year ago and recently bought one for myself. I'm really not liking it, but I might be the only person to have this issue. Both my friend's and my own are like this. As soon as I put my hand on it, the thumb rest area creaks. It moves just enough to be perceivable and it bothers the hell out of me. My g400 is completely solid in comparison. No, I am not using a death grip on the thing either. Besides the loose, creaky case, but buttons seem alright. The surface textures could be better as well. Does anyone else notice the loose, creaky body?


Funny that a mouse that heavy would creak for you. I assume your options are: play the RMA lottery and get a preowned one with real issues back, ignore it, or partially dissasemble it and tighten some screws (careful not to overtighten). I played with a G100s for some time and it got pretty loose towords the end, but as long as I kept the screw tight the thing was as solid as the ~70 grams of uncoated abs could ever hope to be.

If you have any other problems with the G502 though, just return it. The G403 may be a more pleasing shape coming from a G400 (with a whole new host of mostly fixable problems) and the Gpro is the most 'solid' mouse I've tried (basically overengineered, weighs much more that it should for its size, but no creaking, just some button tomfoolery)


----------



## cdcd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tech99*
> 
> So if I want to get a mouse which has shape similar to the G502, then G403 is the one that I should get? Are there any other mouses which should I look into?


G403 isn't really similar, the hump is way different. G402 would be closer to a 502 but not much lighter. Thermaltake Ventus X RGB Optical might be a good fit though.


----------



## Opiumden23

I think it might be due to how the lower part of the shell does not seem to be one piece. Or maybe the thick rubbery layer that your thumb and pinky touch. It really only has 3 buttons over my g400. I did think of perhaps opening it up and putting loctite or an epoxy at some joints to make it more solid.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cdcd*
> 
> Thermaltake Ventus X RGB Optical might be a good fit though.


YES it is, if you have a w-i-d-e right hand







.


----------



## ZhopkaPopka

Currently i have Logitech MX518 and thinking of upgrading. G402 costs 26 euro and G502 - 55 euro.

Why G502 is better than G402? I know G502 has better sensor, but does it really better for gamer?

How good are G402/502 sensors in compare with MX518?


----------



## cdcd

Both are vastly superior compared to the ole MX518. The G502 is quite heavy, much heavier than the MX518 at that as well. The G402 has a similar weight to the G402 and a slightly inferior sensor compared to the G502. For the priced asked atm the G402 is a no-brainer, IMO.


----------



## RatratanX

Hi! I have a black G102. Im experience numb on fingers and palm. I am a G400s and MX518 user until they broke down last year.

I also have a unused G102 White. A friend of mine offered a straight trade-in of his used G502 (non RGB) but without box, skates were remove and hard cable. I am using a cloth extended mouse pad so skates are not an issue to me.

My friend let me use his G502. I am much more comfortable with G502. My hand is 19cm x 9.5cm,

The trade is still in favor to me right? Despite of the condition of the G502. He allow me to use his mouse for me to decide if I like it. He is also using a G502 RGB









Now, my concern is the cable. If I remove the braid, will it soften the cable? I tried to look for replacement but they are braided too. Though I am using a bungee









Need your thoughts. Thanks


----------



## munchzilla

removing braid will make the cable more flexible, and is perfectly fine IMO.

G502 has better internals than the G102, and costs more at retail, so as long as it is in good shape it is a nice trade!

if you don't mind, you can buy a G900 mouse wheel from taobao and mod it, but opening the G502 is a bit tricky.

it will make it lighter and more comfortable to scroll with.

and you can also remove the magnets inside of it that hold the weights in to remove further weight, although they are not very heavy magnets.


----------



## RatratanX

Done debraiding. It feels great now! I never thought that was easy. I removed it even though the braid has no issue. But stiffness is really annoying.


----------



## Elrick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RatratanX*
> 
> Done debraiding. It feels great now! I never thought that was easy. I removed it even though the braid has no issue. But stiffness is really annoying.


Great idea, I usually apply some Mr.Sheen over all the length of the new rubber cable that's just created, it helps to make the rubber more supple and smooth. Also helps to protect the rubber surface from drying and cracking in hot climates.

This is the best way to suddenly have a very different mouse cable, without needing to open up the shell to replace the old one







.


----------



## Shiotcrock

They need to put out a wider version of this mouse I would pick it up I wanted one of these for 3 years but I haven't picked one up because of complaints it's too narrow.

Looking for a MMO mouse when Pantheon Rise of the Fallen comes out.


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## f1LL

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiotcrock*
> 
> They need to put out a wider version of this mouse I would pick it up I wanted one of these for 3 years but I haven't picked one up because of complaints it's too narrow.
> 
> Looking for a MMO mouse when Pantheon Rise of the Fallen comes out.


The narrow width is exactly why I replaced mine with a G403. Otherwise it's an awesome mouse.


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## RatratanX

Purchased G403 to compare with my G502.


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## oobymach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *f1LL*
> 
> The narrow width is exactly why I replaced mine with a G403. Otherwise it's an awesome mouse.


I love the narrow width but I have stumpy fingers and have used tiny mice before with laptops.


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## Shiotcrock

Finally picked up a specturm for 54.00 at Walmart they had them on sale finally girl was giving me grief about buying it at the register LOL.
Because I work there....and sorta know her Really like the scroll wheel and the weights I stuck two of them in and it's perfect I've been screwing about with the Logitech Pro for too long which is the ultimate mouse for FPS games just not everyday use
or MMOS like Pantheon Rise of the Fallen going to use this mouse for that game. I'll try it out in Rift in the level 60+ zones even though I haven't touched that game in a year or more.

I just used a Razer DeathAdder last week I really like that mouse but it's not good for FPS games but it has a nice click to it will use that mouse for Divinity Original Sin 2 when it's finished in September.


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## Shiotcrock

I've been using two weights in this thing one in the very front and one in the back it's prefect.
I think my logitech pro was giving me ADD for general use I forgot how much I liked a weighted mouse.
The logitech pro even affected my driving I think =) Stay in the lines with a weighted mouse and you won't crash yur car.

I think I'll pick up two more of these I have three now it's not really narrow once your hand gets used to it feels the same way as a Logitech G500.


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## Shiotcrock

Playing around with the weight system for a week I found the sweet spot which is placing just two weights in the front of the mouse near around the hexagon leaving the two of the three spaces on the bottom empty.
Feels like I can point on a dime with having those two weights in front.


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## Rayndalf

I don't mean to be that guy, but you wouldn't have any need for weights if your sensitivity / dpi was lower... of course the Gpro has a meh shape no matter how to slice it, so I can imagine it could drive you to extreme lengths


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## Shiotcrock

I'm using it for Mmos games the feel in game is what I'm looking for without overshooting what you are looking at immersion.


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## gipetto

I just got mine second hand today. only buttons 1-5 register in xev, the rest are missing. do I have to run logitech software to enable them? i'm on linux mint.


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## gipetto

both buttons are back now. hmmm


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## x7007

Does anyone use the Logitech Gaming Software drivers ? I noticed when I uninstalled it the mouse was reacting faster like something was controlling it's movement.. can't explain it.

Does anyone know where I can get replacement for the Thumb left side mouse part ? no where is it being sold.


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## Avalar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Does anyone use the Logitech Gaming Software drivers ? I noticed when I uninstalled it the mouse was reacting faster like something was controlling it's movement.. can't explain it.
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get replacement for the Thumb left side mouse part ? no where is it being sold.


Did you have any surface tuning settings on? And where you using profiles stored on the mouse or on the PC?

Here u go: http://support.logitech.com/en_us/product/g502-proteus-spectrum-rgb-gaming-mouse/spare-parts


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## oobymach

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *x7007*
> 
> Does anyone use the Logitech Gaming Software drivers ? I noticed when I uninstalled it the mouse was reacting faster like something was controlling it's movement.. can't explain it.
> 
> Does anyone know where I can get replacement for the Thumb left side mouse part ? no where is it being sold.


I use them but I usually exit the driver software in the bottom right corner (useful for gaming), not much dif in performance but if your windows mouse settings are too high you'll have trouble navigating without the sw running. Also I use the mouse to store settings.


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## Shiotcrock

I'm done with this mouse the problem is my index finger is hitting sharp edge the upper left click which has a taper running up the mouse wheel.


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## amalik

I got this mouse a few weeks ago, and in CS 1.6 (really old game), the mouse pointer sometimes moves itself, very annoying. Doesn't happen in BF4. Anyone else experience this before I reach out to Logitech?

Other than that issue, I love this mouse.


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## LoadSounds

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *amalik*
> 
> I got this mouse a few weeks ago, and in CS 1.6 (really old game), the mouse pointer sometimes moves itself, very annoying. Doesn't happen in BF4. Anyone else experience this before I reach out to Logitech?
> 
> Other than that issue, I love this mouse.


That sounds like an issue with rawinput in Windows (FCU). Try using rawinput, also test with other mice to see if this happens.


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## amalik

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LoadSounds*
> 
> That sounds like an issue with rawinput in Windows (FCU). Try using rawinput, also test with other mice to see if this happens.


Nope, I've been playing CS 1.6 for years with both the MX518 from Logitech and the G400, also Logitech. It never happened on either of those mice.

What do you mean by try using rawinput?


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## bellissimo

*m_rawinput 1* in game console


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## canonrockfinal

how does the g502 compare with the g402 and g403?

this seems like a direct upgrade to g402 which i use

i like the g402's shape


----------



## dontspamme

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *canonrockfinal*
> 
> how does the g502 compare with the g402 and g403?
> 
> this seems like a direct upgrade to g402 which i use
> 
> i like the g402's shape


Then you will not like the G502.
The G502 looks deceptively similar to the G402 on photos. But, trust me, it feels very different.
Its quite a bit smaller, which makes you hold it very differently to the G402.

But worst of all, its HEAVY. So heavy, I think you'll find very, very few FPS players using this mouse.
For other types of games, I reckon its pretty good. The sensor is perfect; the buttons are good etc etc.

I have both mice. And I've tried and tried to become 'friendly' with the G502. But I've given up, and am using the G402 for now, whilst I await Logitech's next gaming mouse.

Pro tip: whether you have the G402 or G502, get rid of that annoying sniper button.


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## dontspamme

Btw, you might like the G403 better than the G502 shape-wise.
Check it out.

But be warned:
The G403 has VERY, VERY low lift-off-distance.
Coming from the G402, which has beautifully high LoD, this might be a deal breaker for you (it was for me. My G403 is buried in the mouse graveyard for now, until I need it's Omron switches some day).


----------



## SteelBox

Will my G502 scroll whell become rusted/corroded if I use it with sweaty hand? I bought it half year ago and during last month it is very hot in my country, I am sweating like a pig during gaming. Couple of days ago I saw some thread about problems with rusty wheel so I am little worried that will happen to me my mouse future...


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## Renegade5399

SteelBox said:


> Will my G502 scroll whell become rusted/corroded if I use it with sweaty hand? I bought it half year ago and during last month it is very hot in my country, I am sweating like a pig during gaming. Couple of days ago I saw some thread about problems with rusty wheel so I am little worried that will happen to me my mouse future...


G502 Proteus Spectrum owner here.

I think the wheel is nickel plated or something. I too suffer from palmar over hydration (lol) during the warmer months. I have zero rust or issues for that matter with this mouse. I've had it for about a year now.


----------



## SteelBox

Renegade5399 said:


> G502 Proteus Spectrum owner here.
> 
> I think the wheel is nickel plated or something. I too suffer from palmar over hydration (lol) during the warmer months. I have zero rust or issues for that matter with this mouse. I've had it for about a year now.


This is what I found about rusty scrool wheel:

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/768192-logitech-g502-corrodedsee-pictures/

https://www.reddit.com/r/G502MasterRace/comments/3x2siv/my_scroll_wheel_rusted/

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/916373-pc/73275747

too many reports just to be a coincidence...


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## spyshagg

My metal wheel is gaining some green coloration kind of rust. Is it bacterial or something?


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## SirWaWa

after 2 years, maybe 2.5? the blue led is burning or burnt out
when it color cycles it can't produce blue, teal and if i switch profiles it can't do white, it's like an off white now
I have another one, almost new (been in use for a few months) for compare


----------



## spyshagg

took me a few days but the mouse managed to drop some hefty weight off!

from 121g down to 89g. No buttons were removed. Every button works. 


The top chassis is incredibly heavy with all the buttons plastics and cover, at around 50g! 
The bottom chassis weighted just 22g 
The original scroll wheel weighted 13g

Cover on


















Cover off


----------



## SirWaWa

is there a way to turn off the leds without software?


----------



## munchzilla

SirWaWa said:


> is there a way to turn off the leds without software?


not that I know of, but you can simply install it and change settings then uninstall it. it saves to an on-board memory on the mouse.


----------

