# Regular car coolant for PC



## /Ben

Ok , I was nosing around in this section of the forum , and not to lang ago I had an idea of using car coolant for the water cooling of a PC. Anyone tried it ? Anyone using it ? Anyone ideas ?


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## leakyfaucet

Antifreeze doesn't transfer heat as well as water. It may work, but dilute the crap out of it.


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## c00lkatz

The real question is...why? Swiftech Hydrx is $2.99 and 1 gallon of distilled water is $0.99. Car coolant would actually be more expensive.


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## viper37

I use antifreeze mixed with distilled water.

No problems here.


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## 21276

it would work, but as noted above definatly not as good as plain ol distilled water.

i use swiftech hydrx mixed with distilled water and my temps are superb.


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## G|F.E.A.D|Killa

im about to do the same thing. come friday. it will work just fine.


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## rpm666

Hydrx fan here.


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## TnB= Gir

If you're talking about pure antifreeze, then don't do it. It's thick enough to where it could cause some problems to the pump. If you dilute the coolant, then you will be fine. I recommend Pentosin G11 1:10 ratio with distilled water.


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## MADMAX22

Its not the best option but it will work. Ive used distilled water for a very long time with just a little bit of antifreeze in it. Keeps anything from growing or whatnot. Again not the best option but easy and relatively cheap.


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## /Ben

I see. So afterall it's not such a good idea ? So , better of with destilled water then. Mixed with... ?


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## huntman21014

Mixed with swiftech hydrx or pt nuke


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## TestECull

IT will work, but you don't need the added properties.

There's certain conditions, listed below, that an automobile engine has to deal with that a PC never does. To combat these conditions, and prevent certain engine damage, we mix(Usually 50:50) Ethyl Glycol, active ingredient in Antifreeze, with distilled water.

1. Operation well below 0C(Or 0F in most areas of the US. Cold cold).
2. Operating tempratures of 180-220F, not 90-125F.
3. Suspension of possible leaked-in oil and gasoline.
4. Believe it or not, but it also lubricates the impellor of the water pump.
5. Anti-corrosion.

It is used in engines, instead of straight water, because of those unique conditions and how it combats them. A combination of pressure and the ethyl glycol inside the antifreeze keeps the coolant from boiling at high engine temps(Some car engines are designed to run at 220F, above boiling point for water. Susposedly good for emissions :\\). It also has to prevent the water from freezing and blowing the side of your engine apart(Remember: Frozen water = bigger volume and solid aluminum/iron = not expanding to compensate.). No water-cooled PC I can think of has to deal with these kinds of extremes(Not even a Prescott, tho I might run a slight mix of antifreeze if I was highly OC'ing a Prescy or Pressler), so it's a waste to use it, and the pumps used in PC loops are designed to not need the lubricative properties of the antifreeze. Now, if you hang your PC's rad out the window, it might be beneficial to run a low mixture, probably 10% antifreeze, for the anti-freezing properties, but remember that PC cooling loops are primarily rubber tubing and more often than not have free space in the res. The water has somewhere to expand to...

Basically, altho it won't hurt anything, there's no real reason to do it...


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## my77stang

im using the "yellow" automotive antifreeze outta a premix 50/50 container. seems to work ok, and i didnt really notice any temp rises.

btw, out of sheer stupidity i added regular ol' well water to the system back when it was just distilled water and it needed to be topped off. weeks later when my cpu and cpu rose to 100 deg C i realized i had a nice layer of white nappy stuff inside that had completely clogged a water block and then boiled the water off.

+1 for nvidia and amd for not actually frying, but damnit that was scary LOL


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## cquinndesign

will coolwhip work?


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## LiquidForce

Quote:


Originally Posted by *cquinndesign* 
will coolwhip work?

no but "I can't believe its not butter" will


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## nytevizion

Been using a 6:1 ratio of tap water and Peak antifreeze for over two years... No problems.

'Well water' contains alot of lime and rust which isn't good. At least the tap water here isn't hard like that. I opened my block up last month and it looked as new inside as it did when I bought it.


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## 47 Knucklehead

Unless you are putting your liquid cooling loop outside your house and the air temp out there gets below 32F ... why bother?


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## un-nefer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by */Ben*
> 
> I see. So afterall it's not such a good idea?


It is a perfectly fine idea that will work without problems for years at a time if mixed correctly - I've been using auto coolant mixed with distilled water for almost a decade and would recommend it to anyone.









I buy 50:50 premixed auto coolant (it's basically Ethylene Glycol + corrosion inhibitors mixed with distilled water), and then I dilute it down further, by mixing it 50:50 with distilled water.

I always feel sorry for those ppl suffering from plasticiser buildup, staining, algae, gunk and corrosion - because I have never had a problem with any of it.

As for temp difference - it is not as large as some make out - it's been tested before and was found to average only 2C higher then straight distilled water - and I am more then happy to take a ~2C temp hit, considering the minimal maintenance and the added benefits of none of the usual problems (as I mentioned above) that others seems to have.

My current build has been running the same auto coolant / distilled water mix since January 2012 and I've not had to do anything to the loop since then and it still looks as clean and vibrant as it was back in January.

It's hard to take a picture showing just how vibrant it still is, but if you look closely you can see the color is still vibrant, the coolant is still transparent and the tubing is clear/clean:


















That is good old auto coolant and distilled water inside clear tubing


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## Buzzkill

Have you seen Redline Water Wetter. I would use this before Preston/Peak It is safe With Aluminum, Cooper, Brass, And Bronze. Mix with distled or Deionized water. I have not tried it but I thought about it.
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=74&pcid=10

WaterWetter®
Unique agent for cooling systems that doubles the wetting ability of water
Rust and corrosion protection allows for use of straight water in racing or reduced antifreeze levels in warm climates
Improves heat transfer and reduces cylinder head temperature
May allow more spark advance for increase power and efficiency
Use one bottle for most passenger cars and light trucks, treats 3 to 5 gallons or 13.2 to 15.9 liters. Vehicles with larger cooling systems should use two bottles. Small cooling systems should use 1oz (3 to 4 capfuls) per quart
Compatible with new or used antifreeze (including DEX-COOLTM and long-life versions) to improve the heat transfer of ethylene and propylene glycol systems
Satisfies ASTM D2570 and ASTM D1384 corrosion tests for glycol-based antifreezes

ABOUT RED LINE WATERWETTER® COOLANT ADDITIVES
Reduces or eliminates bubbles or vapor barrier that form on hot metal surfaces to reduce coolant temperatures by up to 20°
Superior heat transfer properties compared to glycol-based antifreeze
Compatible with new or used antifreeze (including DEX-COOL and long-life versions) to improve the heat transfer of ethylene and propylene glycol systems
Improves heat transfer and reduces cylinder head temperature
Designed for use with all modern aluminum, cast iron, copper, brass and bronze cooling systems
Cleans and lubricates water pump seals
Reduces cavitation and complexes with hard water to reduce scaling
Does not lower cooling system below the thermostatically-controlled temperature

Or:
Be Cool
http://becool.com/coolant


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## un-nefer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Buzzkill*
> 
> Have you seen Redline Water Wetter. I would use this before Preston/Peak It is safe With Aluminum, Cooper, Brass, And Bronze. Mix with distled or Deionized water.


many years ago I used a little wtaerwetter in the loop - but that was only because I had it in the garage for use with my cars. The cost of waterwetter just to use in a loop makes it an expensive option and not worth the it.

Almost all brand-name auto coolants have the same anti-corrosion additives in them now anyway, and the temp improvement inside a PC watercooling loop is almost insignificant and definitely not worth the extra cost.

As I said in my previous post - some cheap premixed Ethylene Glycol based auto coolant, that has anti-corrosion additives in it already, mixed down/diluted further with distilled water at 50:50 is all you will need.

The only time I could imaging someone needing that extra ~2C improvement that straight distilled water offers, is if they were doing a bunch of watercooled benchmarks on the edge of stability - and those people will drop their overclocks down a little after benchmarking anyway, and the ~2C better temps of straight distilled water will not be a factor for their system's stability then anyway.

And as I also mentioned, once you consider the extra maintenance and all the problemsand extra maintenance associated with just distilled water and additives (dyes, silver, ptnuke or other biocides), the simple and cheap auto coolant option always ends up being the better option IMO.


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## ghostrider85

well, if you want to waste money then why not, although there is nothing wrong about doing that, there is absolutely no benefit.


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## m4st3riNf3rNuS

i'm still trying to decide betwen hydrx or ethyl glycol based coolant. thing is that hydrx is $2.95 *w/o* shipping, then i have to re-ship to my country so i can end up paying $7+ for each bottle.
i already know all the benefits that car coolant give me... anti-freeze, higher boiling point, pump lube, *anti-corrosion* and *anti-bacterial*.
so what does hydrx offer me? once i know i can have conclusions and then know if it is worth to buy hydrx or just pick a gallon of coolant and distilled water at my local shop which will cost me about $10 for both the cooant and distilled water(total 2 gallons of coolant)


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## nleksan

I run pure distilled water with a bottle of water wetter in my track car for races, and it is truly awesome stuff, at least in the application for which it was intended. I have upgraded every bit of my cooling system ('00 BMW 328Ci with fully-built engine and heavily modified ESS TSE2+ Lysholm Twin-Screw Supercharger kit with front mounted intercooler pushing over 22psi on 100oct race fuel, and that's just the engine bay), and I get significantly more stable temps with WW than without. Considering the amount of boost (and TS SC's produce max boost throughout the entire rev range, in my case from 1100rpm to 7950rpm), the stuff is truly impressive. I expect nothing less from Redline, but still.

That said, I am undecided as to whether or not I will add 2-3 drops to my loop. On one hand, the reduction of surface tension and the lubrication are very positive traits, but on the other hand I am not so certain that a product designed for 200F+ temps will offer any real benefits at significantly lower temperatures. However, I do notice that with Redline WW, my car gets up to temp quicker, and the few times I drive it in the cold (stored during winter), the heater blows hot air much sooner than without, as in over a minute quicker.

Don't use ethylene glycol, it is of no benefit for this application.


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## un-nefer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> Don't use ethylene glycol, it is of no benefit for this application.


Says who? You?

I've used good ol' ethylene glycol based auto coolant for almost decade without problems - that in itself says it is perfectly fine for any PC watercooling application.


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## Aleslammer

If you are going to throw your rad out a window into sub zero weather then yes, if you are using it inside no. Distilled and algae inhibitor are about all you need, a few drops of dish soap to relieve water tension helps to get those last bubbles out or the antibacterial kind of dish soap if you fell you need it.

There are two problems with using glycol. One, the fluid is not as efficient at removing heat as plain water, the more glycol, the more fluid that has to be passed across the blocks to remove the same about of heat. Two, as the amount of glycol increases the viscosity of the fluid goes up making it harder for the pump to move the fluid. The standard bottled water-cooling fluid is not as efficient at removing heat as plain old distilled water if it's glycol based.

Ethylene glycol has better viscosity numbers than the green kind, but animals really love the stuff so keep it bottled up (lost a cat to it, guy down the street was a car junkie).

If you are going to use a glycol based product, try this doesn't have the abrasive additives of some anti-freezes. http://www.matweb.com/search/datasheettext.aspx?matguid=50e069bfa80741b5a5fac4707d210df9


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## u3b3rg33k

I've used it before with no problems - and why would there be problems? if it can keep dissimilar metals at bay...

I do recommend cutting it below 50/50. I'd recommend 70-80% water, 30-20% coolant, as you don't need as much of the other effects. Now if you're going to take it outside in the dead of winter to bench it, you might want to use 50/50 mix to avoid an oops. I got great OC results on an XPC7410 by taking the rig outside in winter...


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## un-nefer

Preface: sick of those who continually sprout crap - so unfortunately Aleslammer wins the prize of getting my response. Skip this post if you are easily upset by those who know what the fk they are talking about.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aleslammer*
> 
> If you are going to throw your rad out a window into sub zero weather then yes, if you are using it inside no.


This is the most common of the stupid reasons to not use auto coolant, congrats on becoming a sheep and recycling the same dumb reasons that others have posted on forums all over the web for the past decade.

Just because your rig does not operate in sub-zero temps does not mean you shouldn't use it.

Considering you have no thought process of your own and simply sprout out the same garbage as others against using auto coolant, I feel that explaining any reasons why it is a good option would simply go over your head or you wouldn't have the ability to process it anyway.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aleslammer*
> 
> Distilled and algae inhibitor are about all you need, a few drops of dish soap to relieve water tension helps to get those last bubbles out or the antibacterial kind of dish soap if you fell you need it.


Or you could take the easy option to achieve the exact same end result - premixed auto coolant with distilled water - do you see what i did there








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aleslammer*
> 
> There are two problems with using glycol. One, the fluid is not as efficient at removing heat as plain water, the more glycol, the more fluid that has to be passed across the blocks to remove the same about of heat.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aleslammer*
> 
> Two, as the amount of glycol increases the viscosity of the fluid goes up making it harder for the pump to move the fluid. The standard bottled water-cooling fluid is not as efficient at removing heat as plain old distilled water if it's glycol based.


lol, "not as efficient at removing heat" sounds like the same as "problem" one above, "the fluid is not as efficient at removing heat".

So really, your argument is really just about "plain water" or "standard bottled water-cooling" or "distilled water" (you change so much), being more efficient at moving heat then "glycol" based coolant.

And to that single point, if you did your own tests instead of simply repeating this crap, you'd see the actual CPU temp difference while under load in a PC watercooling loop is marginal at best. And when you consider the down falls of "plain water", it really isn't that great for a PC watercooling loop in the end.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aleslammer*
> 
> Ethylene glycol has better viscosity numbers than the green kind, but animals really love the stuff so keep it bottled up (lost a cat to it, guy down the street was a car junkie).


So now we shouldn't use it because animals love it? What ever should we use in our cars now...

At the end of the day you have but 2 real options for your PC watercooling loop, and they can not be argued:
some type of water with an additive to control algae and/or corrosion
some type of manufactured coolant that includes additives for corrosion and kills algae anyway

You can get all exotic and use some fancy stuff for either option or you can take a less exotic approach for either option as well - in the end, both options can work well, but some options will be easier then others, cost less over time, and be much easier to maintain in the long run.

But since this was about using auto coolant, perhaps let those who use it comment and provide info that will actually help - instead of trying to be that person who justifies their own reasons for using a specific solution and then thinks his/her solution is the only solution ppl should use and all other solutions are bad because they read it somewhere else on the web without actually doing any real tests to prove their BS is true.

Peace.


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## m4st3riNf3rNuS

no one seem to have answered my question, *but anyways how am I not suposed to use Ethylene glycol for my loop if even premixed coolants that swiftech, koolance, thermaltake, etc sell have it's amount of Ethylene glycol in it(and it is the component with higher % inside the fluid).*
so what are you guys telling me?
use plain distilled water?
use hydrx with distilled water?
use car coolant with distilled water?
or just buy premixed coolant??!?!!

i just want to make a decition based on your personal experiences....

ps: thanks un-nefer


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## u3b3rg33k

You're not supposed to not use coolant with ethylene glycol. it's fine.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aleslammer*
> 
> Ethylene glycol has better viscosity numbers than the green kind


"The green kind":
http://econtent.autozone.com:24999/znetcs/msds/en/US/513652 - has ethylene glycol
http://econtent.autozone.com:24999/znetcs/msds/en/US/87934 - has ethylene glycol

dexcool https://cglapps.chevron.com/msdspds/MSDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=74256 - has ethylene glycol

Pray tell what kind DOESN'T have ethylene glycol?

insofar as using automotive coolant is concerned, the ONLY downside I can think of off hand is that if you use regular pre-mix, you're probably running a thicker coolant than needed. Engineers know that ethylene glycol isn't as good a *coolant* as pure water, but there are other factors to consider, and I've yet to see a car have trouble _because_ it was running coolant with ethylene glycol in it.

Often there will be a chart on the bottle telling you what % mix to run for what temperature range, which also factors in the chemical makeup of the resultant mix (so you still have enough lubricating properties and anti-corrosives).


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## Aleslammer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *un-nefer*
> 
> At the end of the day you have but 2 real options for your PC watercooling loop, and they can not be argued:
> some type of water with an additive to control algae and/or corrosion
> some type of manufactured coolant that includes additives for corrosion and kills algae anyway
> .


Pretty good answer

Overall I agree with the pro glycol users and if I was to build a water cooled box that I was dependent upon for work it would use glycol, less maintenance. The only reason I don't use anti-freeze the climate I live in doesn't dictate it's use (bench in my garage) and 2c is 2c. The other problem I have is disposal, the free sites never seem to be open when I'm looking, the dump will take it along with other substances deemed hazardous by California statue but with a nice fee attached. I do try to use animal friendly products if they will work, sorry, I liked that damn cat.

If offense was taken over the car junky comment none was intended my own roots lay there. Pic of the Mustang I fixed up for my daughter, not a lot of mussel, she was 17 at the time.








Picked up at charity action nice price, fairly straight body and interior, but was garbage from the engine to rear end, a lot of abuse a lot of work.

The information supplied for the provided brand of anti freeze was based on one of my neighbors whose son raced carts using water cooled motorcycle engines, which were showing excessive wear in the coolant flow channels, the brand was suggested by him. How some additives present in some US based fluids affect the micro channels present in some blocks over the normal life of a computer is up to discussion. If this raises concerns you might do a little research, ingredient differ per areas of the world.

u3b3rg33k
My green comment was based on the use of propylene glycol as an anti-freeze.


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## u3b3rg33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aleslammer*
> 
> Pretty good answer
> Overall I agree with the pro glycol users and if I was to build a water cooled box that I was dependent upon for work it would use glycol, less maintenance. The only reason I don't use anti-freeze the climate I live in doesn't dictate it's use (bench in my garage) and 2c is 2c. The other problem I have is disposal, the free sites never seem to be open when I'm looking, the dump will take it along with other substances deemed hazardous by California statue but with a nice fee attached. I do try to use animal friendly products if they will work, sorry, I liked that damn cat.
> *snip*
> u3b3rg33k
> My green comment was based on the use of propylene glycol as an anti-freeze.


http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/substances/toxsubstance.asp?toxid=240
Propylene glycol is used by the chemical, food, and pharmaceutical industries as an antifreeze when leakage might lead to contact with food. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has classified propylene glycol as an additive that is "generally recognized as safe" for use in food.

I missed that.

from wiki:
Quote:


> Toxicity
> 
> Ethylene glycol has been shown to be toxic to humans[7] and is also toxic to domestic pets such as cats and dogs. A toxic dose requiring medical treatment varies but is considered more than 0.1 mL per kg body weight (mL/kg) of pure substance. That is roughly 16 mL of 50% ethylene glycol for an 80 kg adult and 4 mL for a 20 kg child. Poison control centers often use more than a lick or taste in a child or more than a mouthful in an adult as a dose requiring hospital assessment.[8]
> 
> The orally lethal dose in humans has been reported as approximately 1.4 mL/kg of pure ethylene glycol.[1] That is approximately 224 mL of 50% ethylene glycol for an 80 kg adult and 56 mL for a 20 kg child.


In short, if you get some on your fingers and then put them in your mouth, you'll be fine. if you mix it with your orange juice, or let the dog lick up a spill, you're gonna have problems.

this might be useful - a few properties tables.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ethylene-glycol-d_146.html

of note should be the increase in flow charts - meaning to maintain the same temperature, increase flow by x% - for 50/50 mix in a PC, you're looking at adding an extra 20% flow - so the difference can be virtually negated by turning up an adjustable pump by one setting. In actuality less than that, because I can't see a need for 50/50 mix in a computer loop.


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## nleksan

For what it's worth, I said I don't see the benefit of using it in a water cooling loop, but I also wasn't thinking about dissimilar metals as I have done my absolute best to ensure that there is nothing but copper and brass in my loop, which are low enough on the Galvanic Index that a few drops of Redline Water Wetter should be able to prevent any corrosion.
I am a big car person, and I usually get about 30-45 track days/Autocross events in per year and I drive a very heavily modified BMW 328Ci, which I have spent huge amounts of time in optimizing the cooling system (best cooling, most reliability, and least weight). I run pure distilled water with approximately 5% more water wetter than is recommended but it cools the best. Antifreeze is not allowed on tracks, as it is extremely slippery and also bad for the environment (and a PITA to clean). I have been running without it for years, and the inside of my (custom, triple-thick) radiator is like new, as is the entire system, so the water wetter is clearly doing its job.

I am not saying that anyone is wrong to run a glycol mix in their loop, I simply think that the same benefits can be achieved with a better product that has far fewer possible downsides. I am always willing to admit when I'm wrong, so I will try using a (maximum of 90:10 water antifreeze) mix in my loop, but I don't think that it will really help, while RL WW has the ability to actually improve temps.


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## u3b3rg33k

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> For what it's worth, I said I don't see the benefit of using it in a water cooling loop, but I also wasn't thinking about dissimilar metals as I have done my absolute best to ensure that there is nothing but copper and brass in my loop, which are low enough on the Galvanic Index that a few drops of Redline Water Wetter should be able to prevent any corrosion.
> I am a big car person, and I usually get about 30-45 track days/Autocross events in per year and I drive a very heavily modified BMW 328Ci, which I have spent huge amounts of time in optimizing the cooling system (best cooling, most reliability, and least weight). I run pure distilled water with approximately 5% more water wetter than is recommended but it cools the best. *Antifreeze is not allowed on tracks, as it is extremely slippery and also bad for the environment* (and a PITA to clean). I have been running without it for years, and the inside of my (custom, triple-thick) radiator is like new, as is the entire system, so the water wetter is clearly doing its job.
> I am not saying that anyone is wrong to run a glycol mix in their loop, I simply think that the same benefits can be achieved with a better product that has far fewer possible downsides. I am always willing to admit when I'm wrong, so I will try using a (maximum of 90:10 water antifreeze) mix in my loop, but I don't think that it will really help, while RL WW has the ability to actually improve temps.


As to the former you're right - they do not like it when you put it on the track, but the only times I've ever seen that happen are when someone totals their car, and then there's usually oil on the ground as well. I've never been turned away from a track event for running good 'ol 50:50 in my BMW - tech usually checks over the cooling system and I figure they'd say see ya if they figured it was gonna explode all over the lovely racing surface. As for being bad for the environment, that doesn't have much to do with track vehicles - half of the dedicated vehicles don't have cats.


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## nleksan

True, I don't run cats hardly ever, though I do have some Fabspeed 80 cell Metallic Ultra-Flow Cats for when I don't want to have the bad smell (well, others don't like the smell). It takes about 20min total to swap them out thanks to some creative engineering


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## Aleslammer

Why I liked that cat.

Wife and I were in the front of the house, yard work or something, but the wife sees Buster (the cat) sitting in the middle of the road and starts calling him. I catch some movement and look across the street by the stop sign (see pic), guy walking his Irish setter. The dog sees the cat takes off pulling the lease free, the guy starts apologizing repeatedly for losing control of the dog. While this is going on Buster has never moved still in the middle of the street with his back to the dog my wife is getting hysterical and screaming to get the cat's attention. Just at the right moment Buster turns and literally turns into a ball of claw fanged fur on the dogs head. The dog startled turns and starts yelping, Buster drops off and the setter bee lines it back to his owner. I yell across the street Sorry.


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## ramicio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TestECull*
> 
> 4. Believe it or not, but it also lubricates the impellor of the water pump.
> 5. Anti-corrosion.


I think those two are pretty good things that would apply to even a computer.


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## Willi

I don't know why so much agruing over something particular to each builder.
I use a mix of 10% Car coolant addictive from Bardahl (cheap stuff) and 90% distilled water. My system runs great, rock solid and temps stay at 4-6C above the ambient temperature (and I live in a tropical country, in some regions a watercooled CPU is not only for OC-ing, but a must if you want your cpu to last longer).

I'd like to test the specifically watercooler-designed fluids, but being in brazil makes it a bit difficult:
1- Its a HELL to import anything, even for personal use
2- We don't have the fluid brands you're used to find on the shelves and online stores
3- Whenever we buy something on the web from abroad, we are charged in USD, which the current exchange rate for our currency BRL (Brazillian Real) is 1USD = 2.05BRL which doubles the cost of anything bought abroad (and there's the shipping fees that hang on the 30-60USD zone)

So yeah, considering costs, maintenance need, and the practicality of it, I'd stick with the ethylene/propylene glycol or car cooland + distilled water mix. Its cheaper, works just as good as other solutions and has a very low maintenance need.

I know my situation is pretty particular due to the country I live in, but I stick with my opinion.

Regarding the cat: That's normal, cats can be more dangerous than dogs when cornered. We had one that scared the hell of a german shepard after doing the exact same thing: Turn into a hissing ball of fluff, claws and fangs.


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## motazsayed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Flatliner*
> 
> it would work, but as noted above definatly not as good as plain ol distilled water.
> 
> i use swiftech hydrx mixed with distilled water and my temps are superb.


I woud like to do the same as where I line I can't find pc coolant and I have to order it from the US, what I want to know is what is the blending percentage like 80% distilled water 20% Ethylene glycol or what? I really need to know the best way to blend the coolant also what about the die, can I use regular die or there is something specific ?


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## u3b3rg33k

I'd suggest either 70/30 or 80/20. that leaves enough of the good additives (anti-freeze and anti-corrosion), but without being too thick (unless you're putting it in a walk in freezer for an OC run) and while still having most of the benefits of straight up distilled water.


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## feznz

I have to laugh when I saw this thread I have used automotive coolant for years too absolutly no problems. No plasterisation, clouding, algae, staining or corrosion.
But I would say it might be agressive against plexiglass I am not sure but I did have a thermaltake cpu block top crack unknown exact cause but it was a first generation single fat single channel multiple S bends in it. Lesson learnt stay well clear of acrylic.
I have posted a few times in this thread;

http://www.overclock.net/t/1199158/plasticizer-problems-discussion-gallery/2460#post_19268272

People refuse to accept that anything but faulty tubing is at fault. I posted a pic of hardware store gardening grade tubing that was 5years old that was still cystal clear after 2 years use and 3 years in storage nothing more than 40/60 glycol, tap water mix.

As for water wetter I couldn't recommend it as is not a good corrosion inhibitor. The water wetter theroy works on preventing micro bubbles forming on a super hot surface ie above 120 cel this in turn keeps coolant in 100% contact with engine cooling jackets, I would be pretty sure my pc would shut down before then. Also can be agressive towards plasics.

Why are we concerned about cats opening up our computer and drinking our coolant when the truth is biocide is designed to kill bioorganisms probably deadlier than gycol by volume.

I would never hesitate to recommend glycol as a pc coolant I believe it would less than 1 degree cel difference if used at a 25% by volume ratio and up to 2 degree cel if used at 50% by volume ratio compared to straight water.


----------



## Carbonite77

The only Benifitt I see to using Car Coolant is using it with a water chiller cooling water below freezing temps.


----------



## ZytheEKS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Carbonite77*
> 
> The only Benifitt I see to using Car Coolant is using it with a water chiller cooling water below freezing temps.


There's also the matter of maintenance. Coolants with a higher glycol ratio generally require less maintenance, unless you do something really stupid in the mixing of fluids and cause your blocks to gunk up. Generally with higher concentrations of glycol fluids it will lead to less fluid loss in a custom cooling loop.


----------



## vspec

distilled + kill coil

why is this even a discussion?


----------



## Mega Man

there are alot of good points here but it needs to be pointed out that car anti freeze was used for a long time at the beginnings of water cooling most useful then because they did mix metals and car antifreeze is designed with some heavy corrosion inhibitors. if you dilute it it would be fine.

but i would recommend using plain old distilled water and some biocide, will end up being cheaper in the long run


----------



## ZytheEKS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vspec*
> 
> distilled + kill coil
> 
> why is this even a discussion?


Lots of reasons. Some people have fairly large loops, and don't like leaving the job of a biocide to a small metal object. As previously stated car coolant has a crap load of corrosion inhibitors. It is also capable of below freezing temperatures, assuming it has antifreeze. It's also in of itself a biocide. It's a fairly cheap alternative for some situations. Unfortunately due to it's decreased thermal transfer rate it isn't suitable for anything other than freezing temps









Personally I prefer distilled water + mayhems biocide extreme. Then I have an anti corrosive, an anti microbial, an anti scaling agent, and a PH balance all in one, plus I don't trust the safety of my system to a small silver chunk


----------



## ramicio

I ran automotive coolant with no problems. Then again it wasn't some build that was supposed to look good, and I was always moving it around. The tubing did indeed become cloudy, but that's not something I cared about. This was also more than 10 years ago and there was hardly any water cooling stuff out then.


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vspec*
> 
> distilled + kill coil
> 
> why is this even a discussion?


probably because this thread started 5 years ago.

But some of us do things differently my main reason is the manufacturer's recommendations for life of coolant.
I change my ultra long life 5 year car coolant every time I upgrade my computer every 3-4 years because I am lazy.
other pc based coolant is a few weeks to 1 year before recommended changing.
How often do you change your distilled water + kill coil?

some of us are that paranoid they even change tubing out every few months as a precaution.
I kind of hope for a leak so I have the perfect excuse for an upgrade


----------



## Magnum PI

Need help, I bought a Alphacool NexXxoS Cool Answer 360 D5/XT in the USA and get it shipped with 2 extra bottles of coolant down to Mexico. Mexican customs took out the 2 bottles + the one that came with the set. Now I searched for about 1 month in Mexico to get a coolant but all stores who sale are out of stock and also have problems importing it. Will it be possible to use this car coolant I can buy at AutoZone. It should not contain a lot of antifreeze as the freezing point is by -2°C for this liquid. I also would get coolant with a lower freezing point down to -64°C. Here is the coolant:





Please let me know if that works!?

Big thanks!!!


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magnum PI*
> 
> Need help, I bought a Alphacool NexXxoS Cool Answer 360 D5/XT in the USA and get it shipped with 2 extra bottles of coolant down to Mexico. Mexican customs took out the 2 bottles + the one that came with the set. Now I searched for about 1 month in Mexico to get a coolant but all stores who sale are out of stock and also have problems importing it. Will it be possible to use this car coolant I can buy at AutoZone. It should not contain a lot of antifreeze as the freezing point is by -2°C for this liquid. I also would get coolant with a lower freezing point down to -64°C. Here is the coolant:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please let me know if that works!?
> 
> Big thanks!!!


All automotive coolant is based on primarily ethylene glycol
I couldn't see the actual ingredients listed in that particular coolant.
Personally I would use a coolant that lists the ingredients and mix with water till the mixture contains about 30% ethylene glycol.


----------



## Magnum PI

Big thanks for the help!

Would one of this work out better? They should be a 33% mix!?


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magnum PI*
> 
> Big thanks for the help!
> 
> Would one of this work out better? They should be a 33% mix!?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ]


Prestone is a good reputable brand and the looks like a good ratio premix ready to go
I am no familiar with the other brand just the encocraft looks rather low in glycol content
so how much is that in USD?


----------



## Magnum PI

The Prestone is about 7 USDs.

I bought the Ecocraft today and it looks awesome in LED light. If the coolant contains more glycol the liquid should be thicker and the freezing point is lower so it needs to be cooler to freeze or am I incorrect? If I am correct, why would a thicker coolant be better as that would slow the flow since we use a small pump in our PCs compared to a car pump?


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Magnum PI*
> 
> The Prestone is about 7 USDs.
> 
> I bought the Ecocraft today and it looks awesome in LED light. If the coolant contains more glycol the liquid should be thicker and the freezing point is lower so it needs to be cooler to freeze or am I incorrect? If I am correct, why would a thicker coolant be better as that would slow the flow since we use a small pump in our PCs compared to a car pump?
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ]


the viscosity is similar just looking at the Glycol content it is probably about 7% but with preston it is 33% you can dilute esiliy if required
any way it will serve the purpose


----------



## Magnum PI

Thanks for the help! I finished building up the Alphacool set last night and also added a drain loop with 2 valves. I will fill it tonight with it. I also have another Prestone 97% cooling liquid left that I once bought for my car. I believe if I add that to it the 7% should go up a bit!?

Here are some pics:


----------



## feznz

I am @ 30 month mark no coolant change with 33% no issues.
I don't really understand the 2 valves personally I would remove one valve and use the male/male adapter on the T for the drain valve removing the 2 compression fittings and tube.


----------



## Magnum PI

I like the look of it so I added both valves.







I also added the little tube between the T and the valve so I have more flexibility when I need to drain.


----------



## Mega Man

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feznz*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Magnum PI*
> 
> Need help, I bought a Alphacool NexXxoS Cool Answer 360 D5/XT in the USA and get it shipped with 2 extra bottles of coolant down to Mexico. Mexican customs took out the 2 bottles + the one that came with the set. Now I searched for about 1 month in Mexico to get a coolant but all stores who sale are out of stock and also have problems importing it. Will it be possible to use this car coolant I can buy at AutoZone. It should not contain a lot of antifreeze as the freezing point is by -2°C for this liquid. I also would get coolant with a lower freezing point down to -64°C. Here is the coolant:
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please let me know if that works!?
> 
> Big thanks!!!
> 
> 
> 
> All automotive coolant is based on primarily ethylene glycol
> I couldn't see the actual ingredients listed in that particular coolant.
> Personally I would use a coolant that lists the ingredients and mix with water till the mixture contains about 30% ethylene glycol.
Click to expand...

I don't know who told you this but no.

The green antifreeze is. The newer ones are polypropylene. (Pink Orange blue... all different colors)

Polypropylene is based from sugar.

Either way as long as you don't drink it it will be fine.

Less antifreeze is better. The more anti freeze the worse the heat transfer.


----------



## Magnum PI

Here are some new pics. There are still a lot of air bubbles inside the coolant. I hope they get out soon.


----------



## ssateneth

I plan on doing actual sub-freezing temperatures with my liquid loop. I live in northern wisconsin, so it's not uncommon to get -30C (-22F) in the winter. It's also rather dry here, so condensation is the least of my worries. My liquid cooling radiator (140mm x 4 x 80mm thick, 8 fans push/pull with a thick sparse foam filter added on the intake to catch dust, easily cleaned) is sitting outside my window. My coolant is 55% Propylene Glycol and 45% distilled water. I chose PG instead of ethylene glycol due to being non-toxic.

I had been thinking about getting a second pump to work in series to deal with the additional viscosity and/or 'high speed' 24v variants of the MCP655 (already have 1 'standard' MCP655) though will need an appropriate mod kit to hook the two together.

Coolant temperature has been as low as 15C so far and falling. The lower temperatures definately help with keeping my 5960x stable under high clocks. Purchased it from siliconlottery, maybe I can push it harder under cold liquid


----------



## ZytheEKS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ssateneth*
> 
> I plan on doing actual sub-freezing temperatures with my liquid loop. I live in northern wisconsin, so it's not uncommon to get -30C (-22F) in the winter. It's also rather dry here, so condensation is the least of my worries. My liquid cooling radiator (140mm x 4 x 80mm thick, 8 fans push/pull with a thick sparse foam filter added on the intake to catch dust, easily cleaned) is sitting outside my window. My coolant is 55% Propylene Glycol and 45% distilled water. I chose PG instead of ethylene glycol due to being non-toxic.
> 
> I had been thinking about getting a second pump to work in series to deal with the additional viscosity and/or 'high speed' 24v variants of the MCP655 (already have 1 'standard' MCP655) though will need an appropriate mod kit to hook the two together.
> 
> Coolant temperature has been as low as 15C so far and falling. The lower temperatures definately help with keeping my 5960x stable under high clocks. Purchased it from siliconlottery, maybe I can push it harder under cold liquid


You might want to use vodka instead. PG tends to get viscous at low temperatures, and even a 24v D5 might have issues moving that. (As in it might fry itself). You could just go to a stronger pump if/when it fries, or before that should you desire, but many people with subambient/subzero loops choose to use grain alcohol (i.e. ethanol, aka vodka) as it will lower the freezing/frosting temps without risking increased viscosity.

-Z


----------



## ssateneth

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZytheEKS*
> 
> You might want to use vodka instead. PG tends to get viscous at low temperatures, and even a 24v D5 might have issues moving that. (As in it might fry itself). You could just go to a stronger pump if/when it fries, or before that should you desire, but many people with subambient/subzero loops choose to use grain alcohol (i.e. ethanol, aka vodka) as it will lower the freezing/frosting temps without risking increased viscosity.
> 
> -Z


I had actually strongly considered using a water + alcohol mix, but I had some major concerns with the compatibility between the alcohol and the plastics within the loop, which included the CPU waterblock top (Koolance CPU-380I, probably acetal?), GPU waterblock top (EK EK-FC980 GTX, acrylic), and reservoir (Koolance cylindrical 80mm OD, acrylic). I didn't want to risk any crazing which would destroy the integrity of the plastics.


----------



## ShrimpBrime

Windshield washer fluid. Works wonders for some chilling too!


----------



## RnRollie

But not just any windshield washer fluid... i guess that those which have ammonia in them wont be good for you health when evaporating.. compared to evaporating Vodka, that at least gives you a buzz








Doubt those washer fluids which have "RainX", "Teflon Coating Formula" and the like in them are very good either
Oh, and some of them foam like mad


----------



## Cakewalk_S

I've been running a distilled water+car antifreeze solution in my 2 CLC modded coolers for the past 2 years with 0 problems. Due to the shear time passed without breaking down and cleaning my loop, I think its time to give that a go. It was a little tricky for me to connect the loop under water to prevent any air bubbles but it worked out pretty well. I picked up some prestone coolant this time around, I should be getting to it possibly next week. We shall see. I know I'll most likely need to clean up the block due to corrosion and the rad but we shall see.



I used a very small amount of antifreeze coolant with the distilled water. Just enough to turn the water aqua blue. I figured with the antifreeze antifungal/biocide properties including the corrosion inhibitors that just a little amount would be enough with the distilled water. Plus my loop is completely sealed and should be free of any air... I bleed it for hours...


----------



## RnRollie

if it would be completely free of air, then the radiator would burst whenever it heats up


----------



## cta

just said... anti-freeze is happened because you cant use water in the radiator while below 2'c....

summary... it will not improve heat at all... just de-ice the water.... plus it lubricate the system.... but it wont break your experiment tho...

btw all anti-freeze are almost same... just brand... cheap works fine... but there is two type of fluid... PG, EG,... PG is generally safe and wont damage rubber/ silicone...

oh yeah... never use 100% anti-freeze... use 40% to 60% of anti-freeze... higher amount of anti-freeze = de-ice at extremely low temperature... 100% anti-freeze might can worn the part quickly...


----------



## marshe5

looked through most the posts and didn't see one car coolant that I'm thinking but not using quite yet.

Has anyone ever thought of using Automatic Transmission Fluid? tranny fluid?

I'm curious if it reacts with copper, brass, and/or nickel?


----------



## Mega Man

i would not, i do not know if it is a alkaline or acid but it is a HEAVY duty cleaner ( not recommending using it ) and way way way to thick for common pumps !


----------



## Cakewalk_S

Just use antifreeze + distilled water. I've been running that in both loops for 2+ years with 0 issues, no rise in temps, probably no junk or corrosion. Just changed to CLU on my CPU with the modded H60 and it dropped my temps another 7C down to a max of 59C @ 4.5GHz for my 2500k. I would imagine with the added thermal transfer I'll be helping out prolong the life of the pump


----------



## RnRollie

transmission fluid is probably too "thick" anyways and
-has less "heat transport" properties as water;
-just like brake fluid, ATF tends to be corrosive;
-just like brake fluid, ATF tends to be hydrophilic ie it "sucks" moisture out of the air and thus looses some of its (hydraulic) properties very fast

But if you want to try it, get that green fluid that CITROEN uses in their Hydropneumatic suspension & brakes & powersteering... it is very "thin" & "light" and less corrosive to work with


----------



## Slot1Gamer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cta*
> 
> but there is two type of fluid... PG, EG,... PG is generally safe and wont damage rubber/ silicone...


both ethylene glycol and propylene glycol don't damage any part of a cooling system.

ethylene glycol is used in coolant and is toxic

propylene glycol can also be used in coolant, it's also not as toxic.....

Solutions of both ethylene glycol (EG)
and propylene glycol (PG) will
effectively lower the freezing point of
water and for most applications can be
used interchangeably or even as
mixtures of the two. While there are
many minor variations in the properties
between EG and PG solutions, there
are two key differences which usually
dictate which of the glycols is chosen
for a particular application - toxicity and
viscosity.
Toxicity. EG is more toxic than PG.
About 2 - 4 ounces of EG can be fatal
if ingested by an adult human.
Conversely, PG is a food additive
which is not harmful to humans if
ingested in moderate amounts.


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slot1Gamer*
> 
> both ethylene glycol and propylene glycol don't damage any part of a cooling system.
> 
> ethylene glycol is used in coolant and is toxic
> 
> propylene glycol can also be used in coolant, it's also not as toxic.....
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Solutions of both ethylene glycol (EG)
> and propylene glycol (PG) will
> effectively lower the freezing point of
> water and for most applications can be
> used interchangeably or even as
> mixtures of the two. While there are
> many minor variations in the properties
> between EG and PG solutions, there
> are two key differences which usually
> dictate which of the glycols is chosen
> for a particular application - toxicity and
> viscosity.
> Toxicity. EG is more toxic than PG.
> About 2 - 4 ounces of EG can be fatal
> if ingested by an adult human.
> Conversely, PG is a food additive
> which is not harmful to humans if
> ingested in moderate amounts
> 
> 
> .


Talk about digging up an old post








But I can say I am officially at the 42 month mark 30/70 mix zero issues need to top up 50ml in that time.


----------



## Mega Man

No one said there would be? They have said there are better solutions at this time.


----------



## chromeMKvii

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the purpose of automotive antifreeze to keep the coolant from, you know, freezing during the winter? Unless you're doing some crazy subzero cooling, I highly doubt you'd need this property. I'd stick with distilled. It's cheap, it's readily available, and it has zero abnormal side effects.


----------



## ChRoNo16

Actually its not a bad idea, engine coolant prevents metal from breaking down btw for best results go like 60% water and 40% coolant. only use the old conventional green stuff.


----------



## DaFirnz

Automotive coolant does more than protect from freezing. It's full of corrosion inhibitors. There's usually several different metals inside a cooling system, so corrosion resistance is very important. Personally I would be curious to see how waterless coolant does in computer applications. http://www.evanscoolant.com/


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chromeMKvii*
> 
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the purpose of automotive antifreeze to keep the coolant from, you know, freezing during the winter? Unless you're doing some crazy subzero cooling, I highly doubt you'd need this property. I'd stick with distilled. It's cheap, it's readily available, and it has zero abnormal side effects.


actually the primary purpose is corrosion inhibitor, In the early days of automobiles the engine head and block were usually cast iron prone to cracking just seems the old Anti-freeze name has just stuck.

Any colour antifreeze can be used I used red when I used clear tube but I changed the tubing to red because I couldn't get a deep red colour with antifreeze.

I personally just would use an corrosion inhibitor Mayhems X1 clear would be better than plain distilled IMO


----------



## Mega Man

No as the name suggests. It is to keep your car cooling system from freezing, as an added boons it does have corrosion resistance as well. Another reason to not use it in pics is it is not made for us. Where we have some that is


----------



## whitrzac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Slot1Gamer*
> 
> both ethylene glycol and propylene glycol don't damage any part of a cooling system.
> 
> ethylene glycol is used in coolant and is toxic
> 
> propylene glycol can also be used in coolant, it's also not as toxic.....
> 
> Solutions of both ethylene glycol (EG)
> and propylene glycol (PG) will
> effectively lower the freezing point of
> water and for most applications can be
> used interchangeably or even as
> mixtures of the two. While there are
> many minor variations in the properties
> between EG and PG solutions, there
> are two key differences which usually
> dictate which of the glycols is chosen
> for a particular application - toxicity and
> viscosity.
> Toxicity. EG is more toxic than PG.
> About 2 - 4 ounces of EG can be fatal
> if ingested by an adult human.
> Conversely, PG is a food additive
> which is not harmful to humans if
> ingested in moderate amounts.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChRoNo16*
> 
> Actually its not a bad idea, engine coolant prevents metal from breaking down btw for best results go like 60% water and 40% coolant. only use the old conventional green stuff.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaFirnz*
> 
> Automotive coolant does more than protect from freezing. It's full of corrosion inhibitors. There's usually several different metals inside a cooling system, so corrosion resistance is very important. Personally I would be curious to see how waterless coolant does in computer applications. http://www.evanscoolant.com/


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *feznz*
> 
> actually the primary purpose is corrosion inhibitor, In the early days of automobiles the engine head and block were usually cast iron prone to cracking just seems the old Anti-freeze name has just stuck.
> 
> Any colour antifreeze can be used I used red when I used clear tube but I changed the tubing to red because I couldn't get a deep red colour with antifreeze.
> 
> I personally just would use an corrosion inhibitor Mayhems X1 clear would be better than plain distilled IMO


You are all correct...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mega Man*
> 
> No as the name suggests. It is to keep your car cooling system from freezing, as an added boons it does have corrosion resistance as well. Another reason to not use it in pics is it is not made for us. Where we have some that is


You are not.

Please stop parroting incorrect information.


----------



## TwirlyWhirly555

I used propylene glycol and water mix when I overclocked an old i3 560 to 5Ghz , With the added propylene glycol I was able to get to about -15C with water before I hit the limit of the chiller .


----------



## drazah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mega Man*
> 
> No as the name suggests. It is to keep your car cooling system from freezing, as an added boons it does have corrosion resistance as well. Another reason to not use it in pics is it is not made for us. Where we have some that is


Its just a naming convention that never really changed. Anti-freeze was just used because at the time the other option of liquid to use would just be water. Which has a far lower boiling point and a far higher freezing point so putting just water in your car would be bad, thus coining the term Anti-Freeze. Its used for proper cooling of the engine, in both cold and hot weather, but mainly is used for corrosion inhibitor because its far far better than just using regular water. I have seen a lot of people use it within pc loops without any issues at all, and honestly I hear more issues come from specific coolants made for pc loops as apposed to people using anti-freeze and running into issue. It seems anyone running anti-freeze rarely has a problem with it specifically.


----------



## Mega Man

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitrzac*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Slot1Gamer*
> 
> both ethylene glycol and propylene glycol don't damage any part of a cooling system.
> 
> ethylene glycol is used in coolant and is toxic
> 
> propylene glycol can also be used in coolant, it's also not as toxic.....
> 
> Solutions of both ethylene glycol (EG)
> and propylene glycol (PG) will
> effectively lower the freezing point of
> water and for most applications can be
> used interchangeably or even as
> mixtures of the two. While there are
> many minor variations in the properties
> between EG and PG solutions, there
> are two key differences which usually
> dictate which of the glycols is chosen
> for a particular application - toxicity and
> viscosity.
> Toxicity. EG is more toxic than PG.
> About 2 - 4 ounces of EG can be fatal
> if ingested by an adult human.
> Conversely, PG is a food additive
> which is not harmful to humans if
> ingested in moderate amounts.
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ChRoNo16*
> 
> Actually its not a bad idea, engine coolant prevents metal from breaking down btw for best results go like 60% water and 40% coolant. only use the old conventional green stuff.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *DaFirnz*
> 
> Automotive coolant does more than protect from freezing. It's full of corrosion inhibitors. There's usually several different metals inside a cooling system, so corrosion resistance is very important. Personally I would be curious to see how waterless coolant does in computer applications. http://www.evanscoolant.com/
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *feznz*
> 
> actually the primary purpose is corrosion inhibitor, In the early days of automobiles the engine head and block were usually cast iron prone to cracking just seems the old Anti-freeze name has just stuck.
> 
> Any colour antifreeze can be used I used red when I used clear tube but I changed the tubing to red because I couldn't get a deep red colour with antifreeze.
> 
> I personally just would use an corrosion inhibitor Mayhems X1 clear would be better than plain distilled IMO
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are all correct...
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Mega Man*
> 
> No as the name suggests. It is to keep your car cooling system from freezing, as an added boons it does have corrosion resistance as well. Another reason to not use it in pics is it is not made for us. Where we have some that is
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are not.
> 
> Please stop parroting incorrect information.
Click to expand...

No YOU need to stop.

Try it. Please. (See below)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drazah*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Mega Man*
> 
> No as the name suggests. It is to keep your car cooling system from freezing, as an added boons it does have corrosion resistance as well. Another reason to not use it in pics is it is not made for us. Where we have some that is
> 
> 
> 
> Its just a naming convention that never really changed. Anti-freeze was just used because at the time the other option of liquid to use would just be water. Which has a far lower boiling point and a far higher freezing point so putting just water in your car would be bad, thus coining the term Anti-Freeze. Its used for proper cooling of the engine, in both cold and hot weather, but mainly is used for corrosion inhibitor because its far far better than just using regular water. I have seen a lot of people use it within pc loops without any issues at all, and honestly I hear more issues come from specific coolants made for pc loops as apposed to people using anti-freeze and running into issue. It seems anyone running anti-freeze rarely has a problem with it specifically.
Click to expand...

Either of you. In winter. COMPLETELY remove all glycol and run straight water. In sub freezing ambient. For one week. And like most people you must store your care outside. Please try I would love to hear you whine about the damage to your engine and radiators (yes at least 2)

News flash they did not care about corrosion when it was first used. They car about damage. Still true today. There are many corrosion inhibitors that are not glycol based and yes more friendly to the environment. However glycol works wonders because it's everything needed


----------



## drazah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mega Man*
> 
> No YOU need to stop.
> 
> Try it. Please. (See below)
> Either of you. In winter. COMPLETELY remove all glycol and run straight water. In sub freezing ambient. For one week. And like most people you must store your care outside. Please try I would love to hear you whine about the damage to your engine and radiators (yes at least 2)
> 
> News flash they did not care about corrosion when it was first used. They car about damage. Still true today. There are many corrosion inhibitors that are not glycol based and yes more friendly to the environment. However glycol works wonders because it's everything needed


New flash, They did care about corrosion when it was first used and it is literally the main reason why they stopped using Alcohol based coolants because it literally ACCELERATES corrosion thus making the switch to Glycol. If it was mainly used to just keep your car from freezing, and as you insist they did not care about corrosion, they would of stuck with Alcohol.. but that actually caused just as much damage thus the creation for Glycol based coolant to inhibit this corrosion. Thus proving our points. I never mentioned anything about using water OVER coolant and for some reason you go on talking about putting water in our cars and letting it freeze.... literally makes no sense and you completely contradict yourself by saying..

"News flash they did not care about corrosion when it was first used. They car about damage."

You are clearly uneducated.


----------



## whitrzac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mega Man*
> 
> No YOU need to stop.
> 
> Try it. Please. (See below)
> Either of you. In winter. COMPLETELY remove all glycol and run straight water. In sub freezing ambient. For one week. And like most people you must store your care outside. Please try I would love to hear you whine about the damage to your engine and radiators (yes at least 2)
> 
> News flash they did not care about corrosion when it was first used. They car about damage. Still true today. There are many corrosion inhibitors that are not glycol based and yes more friendly to the environment. However glycol works wonders because it's everything needed


Glycol is not the only thing in off the shelf coolant. I was in a 3 page argument with someone over in the EK thread. You should go check it out.


----------



## Master__Shake

Quote:


> Originally, motorists drove cars without heaters or side windows, making winter driving very unpleasant. In addition, it was extremely difficult to start a car in cold weather. The eventual development of car heaters and side windows, and the improvement of engines and lubricants, led to more winter driving and the requirement of antifreeze/coolant. To prevent freezing and help cars run, early motorists used water with an additive such as honey, sugar, molasses and, the most popular, methyl alcohol. Despite good engine cooling ability, alcohol had the significant drawbacks of boil-away, odor, and flammability.


TIL...










molasses and honey oh my god...priceless.

http://ca.prestone.com/enca/company/history?select_region=1


----------



## Mega Man

So. You literally prove my point that it is used to prevent freezing. I never said it was the first coolant. I said it is the best for what it is used for.

1 cooling car. 2 preventing damage via freezing. 3 corrosion.

They stopped using alcohol because something better was foods ( Psst boiling away )

Who said glycol was the only ingredient. I said one of the primary reasons it is used is to prevent freezing.


----------



## chromeMKvii

Correc
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaFirnz*
> 
> Automotive coolant does more than protect from freezing. It's full of corrosion inhibitors. There's usually several different metals inside a cooling system, so corrosion resistance is very important. Personally I would be curious to see how waterless coolant does in computer applications. http://www.evanscoolant.com/


I hadn't considered the anti-corrosive properties. When I put my system together, I was very careful not to mix metals, I didn't want to wind up with a battery effect. Looking back though, I know not everyone is as obsessive as myself, and bare copper is gonna get thrown in the mix with nickel and other metals from time to time. That said, I humbly retract my previous statement. I still don't think I personally would use automotive antifreeze as I wouldn't want to create a negative side effect (I wouldn't want to over or under dilute). But I now see how it could be beneficial for those experienced and comfortable enough to go forward with it.


----------



## whitrzac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mega Man*
> 
> So. You literally prove my point that it is used to prevent freezing. I never said it was the first coolant. I said it is the best for what it is used for.
> 
> 1 cooling car. 2 preventing damage via freezing. 3 corrosion.
> 
> They stopped using alcohol because something better was foods ( Psst boiling away )
> 
> Who said glycol was the only ingredient. I said one of the primary reasons it is used is to prevent freezing.


glycol is also in every "PC" coolant I looked into.


----------



## Mega Man

Wow. Sorry term memory loss?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mega Man*
> 
> No as the name suggests. It is to keep your car cooling system from freezing, as an added boons it does have corrosion resistance as well. Another reason to not use it in pics is it is not made for us. Where we have some that is


That was not even that far up there. And also it has anti microbial properties.


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitrzac*
> 
> glycol is also in every "PC" coolant I looked into.


yes BUT there is propylene glycol which is bio-degradable and is used for most PC based due to the fact of low toxicity
then there is ethylene glycol non bio-degradable and has a high toxicity

I have used propylene glycol once it started to degrade with in 2-3 months just my experience with one brand I couldn't comment on all PC based coolants as I have only tried it once, I have heard good and bad opinions with all brands of PC orientated base of coolants, discoloration, corrosion and so on.

I choose to use ethylene glycol due to the fact of Highly stability and longevity product life expectancy I have got 42 months so far and won't be changing it till I upgrade hardware.
I don't worry about my children or pets opening up my PC to have a drink if they are intelligent enough to that then they are intelligent enough to know it is extremely toxic.
Also I have taught my children not to eat off the floor so I would know they won't lick a puddle of coolant off the floor if a unforeseeable leak had occurred.

The argument of Anti freeze or corrosion inhibitor it like the old the chicken or the egg first....does it really matter.....

And just to put it out there, Australians call it anti-boil


----------



## ShrimpBrime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitrzac*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Mega Man*
> 
> No as the name suggests. It is to keep your car cooling system from freezing, as an added boons it does have corrosion resistance as well. Another reason to not use it in pics is it is not made for us. Where we have some that is
> 
> 
> 
> You are not.
> 
> Please stop parroting incorrect information.
Click to expand...

Actually Mega Man is correct.

I've been in the automotive and diesel industry all my life.

The Green is old school. The long life is new school. Both have inhibitors to prevent corrosion. The long life stuff usually orange looking in color actually has more inhibitors than the green.

Why?

Because Engines even 30 years back use iron blocks and aluminum heads and intake manifolds.

Like with any liquid, you should have regular change intervals.


----------



## drazah

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShrimpBrime*
> 
> Actually Mega Man is correct.
> 
> I've been in the automotive and diesel industry all my life.
> 
> The Green is old school. The long life is new school. Both have inhibitors to prevent corrosion. The long life stuff usually orange looking in color actually has more inhibitors than the green.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Because Engines even 30 years back use iron blocks and aluminum heads and intake manifolds.
> 
> Like with any liquid, you should have regular change intervals.


He wasnt the one to suggest it for its corrosion prevention though rather strictly for keeping your engine from freezing. Almost everyone else and me included were the ones to suggest it. Parts of the world never have to deal with freezing what so ever and we were trying to inform him that its not just "as the name suggests".


----------



## ShrimpBrime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drazah*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ShrimpBrime*
> 
> Actually Mega Man is correct.
> 
> I've been in the automotive and diesel industry all my life.
> 
> The Green is old school. The long life is new school. Both have inhibitors to prevent corrosion. The long life stuff usually orange looking in color actually has more inhibitors than the green.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Because Engines even 30 years back use iron blocks and aluminum heads and intake manifolds.
> 
> Like with any liquid, you should have regular change intervals.
> 
> 
> 
> He wasnt the one to suggest it for its corrosion prevention though rather strictly for keeping your engine from freezing. Almost everyone else and me included were the ones to suggest it. Parts of the world never have to deal with freezing what so ever and we were trying to inform him that its not just "as the name suggests".
Click to expand...

Oh he's probably aware of that. However in parts of the world, all vehicles are sold with "anit-freeze" as a coolant and not distilled water.

Have run some demolition derbies on straight tap water though. Whata gas!


----------



## Mega Man

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drazah*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ShrimpBrime*
> 
> Actually Mega Man is correct.
> 
> I've been in the automotive and diesel industry all my life.
> 
> The Green is old school. The long life is new school. Both have inhibitors to prevent corrosion. The long life stuff usually orange looking in color actually has more inhibitors than the green.
> 
> Why?
> 
> Because Engines even 30 years back use iron blocks and aluminum heads and intake manifolds.
> 
> Like with any liquid, you should have regular change intervals.
> 
> 
> 
> He wasnt the one to suggest it for its corrosion prevention though rather strictly for keeping your engine from freezing. Almost everyone else and me included were the ones to suggest it. Parts of the world never have to deal with freezing what so ever and we were trying to inform him that its not just "as the name suggests".
Click to expand...

If you read the quote above you. I never said it was strictly for freeze protection. I have even broken it down in order of priority what it does in this thread
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mega Man*
> 
> So. You literally prove my point that it is used to prevent freezing. I never said it was the first coolant. I said it is the best for what it is used for.
> 
> 1 cooling car. 2 preventing damage via freezing. 3 corrosion.
> 
> They stopped using alcohol because something better was foods ( Psst boiling away )
> 
> Who said glycol was the only ingredient. I said one of the primary reasons it is used is to prevent freezing.


I even left out 4. Organism growth prevention which no one even noticed.


----------



## feznz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mega Man*
> 
> If you read the quote above you. I never said it was strictly for freeze protection. I have even broken it down in order of priority what it does in this thread
> I even left out 4. Organism growth prevention which no one even noticed.


Algae requires light to grow generally in a car there simply isn't enough light under a closed bonnet to allow Algae to grow.
Bacteria requires Organic material and oxygen to multiply.
Also if the car is running correctly the running temp of the engine would kill bacteria and algae.

Not saying there isn't no biocide additives I have no idea, just it is unlikely that Algae or Bacteria would grow in an automotive engine unlike a PC loop.
I thought properties of glycol made it a Biocide, Antifreeze and Corrosion Inhibitor all rolled up in one compound.


----------



## Jim86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ShrimpBrime*
> 
> Oh he's probably aware of that. However in parts of the world, all vehicles are sold with "anit-freeze" as a coolant and not distilled water.
> 
> Have run some demolition derbies on straight tap water though. Whata gas!


Using straight tap water while doing a demolition derby is completely irreverent as corrosion resistance is completely pointless since you vehicle will only need to last no longer then 10-30 minutes.


----------



## ShrimpBrime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jim86*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ShrimpBrime*
> 
> Oh he's probably aware of that. However in parts of the world, all vehicles are sold with "anit-freeze" as a coolant and not distilled water.
> 
> Have run some demolition derbies on straight tap water though. Whata gas!
> 
> 
> 
> Using straight tap water while doing a demolition derby is completely irreverent as corrosion resistance is completely pointless since you vehicle will only need to last no longer then 10-30 minutes.
Click to expand...

You missed the point of that lol. It was to show that not every post needs to be totally serious to the point where everything here needs to be broken down to some science.

In the auto handbook, your antifreeze is also referred to as a coolant...... This is where Cars and PC's differ greatly. A car uses 3 sources as a coolant. A PC uses one or two. Air and/or liquid in most cases. The car uses oil, air and liquid. It takes all three. Oil in the crankcase is not only a lubricant but also helps keep things cool.

So as it may seem irreverent to you, but that's a bit of a problem........... your problem.


----------



## Thick8

I did a 30% glycol mix and my temps went up 10 F over distilled. I will be switching back to distilled and adding biocide. Granted I'm pumping a lot of heat into my liquid so your mileage may vary.


----------



## Jim86

Why would you even use glycol to begin with are you using your PC outside in the winter below 0c??!!?


----------



## whitrzac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jim86*
> 
> Why would you even use glycol to begin with are you using your PC outside in the winter below 0c??!!?


There are many forms of glycol. Every PC coolant that I've looked at has it in one form or another.


----------



## ShrimpBrime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jim86*
> 
> Why would you even use glycol to begin with are you using your PC outside in the winter below 0c??!!?


Yes indeed. It's called extreme cooling.

No different than using a chiller with your liquid cooling set up. Colder temps = higher clocks!


----------



## Jim86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *whitrzac*
> 
> There are many forms of glycol. Every PC coolant that I've looked at has it in one form or another.


Glycol is completely reasonable for use in automotive applications as it can lower the freezing point significantly compared with water alone. In computer applications I assume not many of us are gaming in igloos so why is this in commercial computer coolant mixes. Glycol has roughly half the thermal capacity of water and less thermal conductivity of water.


----------



## ShrimpBrime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jim86*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *whitrzac*
> 
> There are many forms of glycol. Every PC coolant that I've looked at has it in one form or another.
> 
> 
> 
> Glycol is completely reasonable for use in automotive applications as it can lower the freezing point significantly compared with water alone. In computer applications I assume not many of us are gaming in igloos so why is this in commercial computer coolant mixes. Glycol has roughly half the thermal capacity of water and less thermal conductivity of water.
Click to expand...

Could be used for water pump lubrication too.


----------



## Mega Man

It is in pc mixes for a few uses.

1 cheap
2 Anticorrosion
3 anti microbial

These are the main reasons but not the only ones


----------



## PrimeArche

ghostrider85 said:


> well, if you want to waste money then why not, although there is nothing wrong about doing that, there is absolutely no benefit.


Hate to say it, But it does have benefits not to mention the algae growth inhibitors in antifreeze and the anti corrosion this is a major issue with all coolants i have use in the past and so far antifreeze has been the answer to the issue.


----------



## lzf995

i have used it in all my pc loops and never had a problem just a 30-70 premix works great i also use aluminium radiators with copper blocks and never had a problem i just change it every 6 months


----------



## feznz

One Issue though it will leave a residue it reservoirs above the water line but thats the only down side but I thinking of change out to mayhems pastel for a cleaner looking reservoir and the added zinc and titanium oxide that improves thermal conductivity


----------



## toolmaker03

feznz said:


> One Issue though it will leave a residue it reservoirs above the water line but thats the only down side but I thinking of change out to mayhems pastel for a cleaner looking reservoir and the added zinc and titanium oxide that improves thermal conductivity



I may be wrong here, but if you are planning to cool that mix to a temp that is below 0C. please put some of the mix in a container and place it in the freezer for a day to see if it thickens up. most antifreeze will thicken to the point that it is to thick for the D5 pump to move at any kind of reasonable flow rate. 

now as for the idea that antifreeze is no good for standard water cooling that is simply a myth. at the 80% distilled water 20% antifreeze mix that I have used for 20 years I can prove there is no difference in the cooling capacity between straight distilled water and the mix I use if you would like me to prove this with a test build I can do this but really I already have. 

http://www.overclock.net/forum/61-water-cooling/1573189-serial-vs-parallel-9-6lpm.html

I used straight distilled water in this test build, there is no difference in the temps, when I use a antifreeze mix.


----------



## feznz

toolmaker03 said:


> I may be wrong here, but if you are planning to cool that mix to a temp that is below 0C. please put some of the mix in a container and place it in the freezer for a day to see if it thickens up. most antifreeze will thicken to the point that it is to thick for the D5 pump to move at any kind of reasonable flow rate.
> 
> now as for the idea that antifreeze is no good for standard water cooling that is simply a myth. at the 80% distilled water 20% antifreeze mix that I have used for 20 years I can prove there is no difference in the cooling capacity between straight distilled water and the mix I use if you would like me to prove this with a test build I can do this but really I already have.
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/forum/61-water-cooling/1573189-serial-vs-parallel-9-6lpm.html
> 
> I used straight distilled water in this test build, there is no difference in the temps, when I use a antifreeze mix.


NO CHANCE AT ALL I GAVE UP MY DREAMS OF SUB ZERO COOLING 

But if I were I explained before the best way would be remove the water/coolant loop altogether and make custom evaporator heads that directly contact the CPU/GPU basically copy this but with a 2HP evaporator a exact copy of this;
http://www.ldcooling.com/shop/14-phase-change

but seriously if I were to bench sub zero then dry ice or LN² will beat any phase change unless you go 3or4 phase cascade then you will probably need 100A @ 120v or 50A @ 240v depending where you live and a budget that could build a small house.

just gave up on the idea when Pascal came out and looked at the advantages even with LN² cooling made the desire to make a 24/7 rig nil.

Even the original people in the chill box club with completed builds are no where to be seen last I heard even they packed most of it away in the garage something to do with power bill and a measly 200Mhz GPU and maybe 200Mhz on CPU advantage over water 

sorry to be blunt but waste of time IMHO


----------



## toolmaker03

well that is nice but I am not making a water chiller for any of the reasons that you have mentioned.
a good example today would be the 8700K CPU that CPU with a delid and standard water cooling at 5Ghz or better will run at 80C. my reason for creating a water chiller is so that I can run a CPU like this at 5Ghz but with a load temp of 50C. a good water chiller can do this. not to mention that eventually the GPU's will once again start to get really hot as the next few generation come out and they to will benefit from the lower load temps. I am not doing any of my build for some great clock rate but to extend the life of my system. as the system gets older I clock it higher to keep up with newer technology. here lately the PC components can be clocked higher than previous generations, but they also get hotter. thus the reason for me to build a water chiller for my system.


----------



## feznz

OK 50°C vs 80°C load temp both @ 5Ghz = no advantage arguably, both well within Intel's max 100°C only will time tell if the extra cooling will yield longer life expectancy but by then I probably will have a newer generation 12core.
My last thought for this was to run water directly from the mains as even during summer water temps are fairly consistantly around 14°C summer and 7°C winter from artesian wells and water is free here in NZ so back to condesation problems advantages/disadvantages 
probably in the end I am better to invest in newer hardware just my final thoughts on this but hey a aquarim chiller is the best bet but in all honesty I think you need to get load temp to near 0°C to make it worth it which aquarium chiller is not designed to freeze fish.

Sorry again if you have taken offence on my opinion


----------



## lzf995

Or just upgrade and save all the $$$$'s of money your about to waist on electric for nothing.. watercooling is fine for any cpu/gpu I run an i5 at 5ghz and dont go above 58c in a 20c room and it will last more then 6years like that easily and antifreeze doesn't leave any residue in the res or anything I've not had a single problem with it all the years I've used it.. Only Downside is when you need to put your mouth on a tube to blow out the blocks.. It doesn't taste very nice haha


----------



## feznz

No residue? I am looking at doing my loop again ..... one day but its held up OK for 5 years just thinking that the Mayhems Pastel range will have better thermal conductivity and I have noticed crystal clear reservoirs I has this build up within the first week.


----------



## toolmaker03

feznz said:


> No residue? I am looking at doing my loop again ..... one day but its held up OK for 5 years just thinking that the Mayhems Pastel range will have better thermal conductivity and I have noticed crystal clear reservoirs I has this build up within the first week.


well this looks normal, for any coolant.
I think that the clear reservoirs that you are referring to, are from people that literally dismantle, and clean the water loop three to four times a year. if you are like me, and only dismantle the loop every three to four years when there is a issue with whatever. that residue as you call it, will be there no matter what coolant you are using.


----------



## lzf995

feznz said:


> No residue? I am looking at doing my loop again ..... one day but its held up OK for 5 years just thinking that the Mayhems Pastel range will have better thermal conductivity and I have noticed crystal clear reservoirs I has this build up within the first week.


With a half empty res doesn't help that's why you fill them up as much as you can and you don't get a waterline where the liquid moves across the small empty space and keeps it clean


----------



## feznz

toolmaker03 said:


> well this looks normal, for any coolant.
> I think that the clear reservoirs that you are referring to, are from people that literally dismantle, and clean the water loop three to four times a year. if you are like me, and only dismantle the loop every three to four years when there is a issue with whatever. that residue as you call it, will be there no matter what coolant you are using.





lzf995 said:


> With a half empty res doesn't help that's why you fill them up as much as you can and you don't get a waterline where the liquid moves across the small empty space and keeps it clean


I not too sure about that residue, just I seen s water cooled PC in the local store and even after 6 months Crystal clear reservoir, also the talk came up in the Watercooling thread
The reservoir is almost full 2 reasons I like to see the liquid drop so I can see the coolant flow, also for thermal expansion I believe I have around 2.5 litres and I don't want a hose to pop a leak from over pressurising. 
also I need to use almost a 50/50 mix of antifreeze which will affect the thermal conductive properties, I didn't want to use dye and it took that much to get the right shade of red, 30/70 was a nice pink colour.
mayhems make a real nice black pastel coolant that i fancy when I ger round to it and has a life expectancy of 3 years.


----------



## lzf995

feznz said:


> I not too sure about that residue, just I seen s water cooled PC in the local store and even after 6 months Crystal clear reservoir, also the talk came up in the Watercooling thread
> The reservoir is almost full 2 reasons I like to see the liquid drop so I can see the coolant flow, also for thermal expansion I believe I have around 2.5 litres and I don't want a hose to pop a leak from over pressurising.
> also I need to use almost a 50/50 mix of antifreeze which will affect the thermal conductive properties, I didn't want to use dye and it took that much to get the right shade of red, 30/70 was a nice pink colour.
> mayhems make a real nice black pastel coolant that i fancy when I ger round to it and has a life expectancy of 3 years.


So your using 70% antifreeze to 30%water and wondering why it leaves a little red ring around the water mark ? I use 80%water 20% antifreeze and I don't use dye as I like clear look so that's why yours looks so bad compared to mine after 1 year I didn't have no problems with "over pressure" try run the pc under stress for an hour before putting the fill plug on and it creates a negative pressure in the res and if you a leak it sucks water in and you see where the air bubbles are and I only use car coolant because I'm a mechanic and I put the same stuff in cars as my pc when you have aluminium copper and steal all in 1 loop and don't get corrosion after 3 years with out a change it gives you confidence


----------



## feznz

lzf995 said:


> So your using 70% antifreeze to 30%water and wondering why it leaves a little red ring around the water mark ? I use 80%water 20% antifreeze and I don't use dye as I like clear look so that's why yours looks so bad compared to mine after 1 year I didn't have no problems with "over pressure" try run the pc under stress for an hour before putting the fill plug on and it creates a negative pressure in the res and if you a leak it sucks water in and you see where the air bubbles are and I only use car coolant because I'm a mechanic and I put the same stuff in cars as my pc when you have aluminium copper and steal all in 1 loop and don't get corrosion after 3 years with out a change it gives you confidence


you miss read my post as 50/50 water/antifreeze but not to say antifreeze isn't a viable alternative 
Just there are some potential issues with some people that choose to use it...as I have stated be 5+ years(10 years if you count my original PC) zero issues rather nit picking residue and possible reduced thermal conductivity compared to PC based coolant 

the reason I choose antifreeze was more the price/availability of PC orientated coolant which is now available at a reasonable price but more because of the colour range available I am thinking of changing out to pastel black.

we have something in common I am also a trade certified mechanic but gave it up in 2006 I was having starting back problems at the age of 25 all I can say is I will never go back to bending over a engine bay for a living.


----------



## lzf995

feznz said:


> we have something in common I am also a trade certified mechanic but gave it up in 2006 I was having starting back problems at the age of 25 all I can say is I will never go back to bending over a engine bay for a living.


Yea your telling me I want to change it my neck hurts to much especially in this cold haha, but yea there is up sides and downsides of antifreeze and pc coolants some dye the tubes and blocks some dont some stop corrosion some don't its just depends what you need and the budget as antifreeze is cheap and chearful but pc coolant is designed for all copper and to look good


----------



## Zero4549

I've had old feser one running in my loop for years now and my res is still totally clear. Dunno what you guys are doing wrong or if all modern coolants are just garbage, but yeah, no clouding of the res here.


----------



## Juggalo23451

/Ben said:


> I see. So afterall it's not such a good idea ? So , better of with destilled water then. Mixed with... ?


I just use distilled water with pt nuke or silver coil. That is all you need


----------



## Juggalo23451

From Ira-k wc guide
*******************Coolant*********************************************Coolant*********************************************Coolant*********************************************Coolant**************************
If you have a VW or Audi dealership near you Pentosin can be bought pretty cheap. AllPentosin is is VW anti-freeze. I t comes in "VW Red" or VW Blue" add a few drops of "Tracer-Line" UV dye that you can buy at most auto-supply stores and your set for a while. It justtake a few drops of the Tracer-Line for your loop. The Pentosin can be bought on Amazonalso but I would think the shipping would be expensive for a liter and a half of it. Its only$10.00 or so for a liter and a half .The G11 is blue and the G12 is red.For every 40 ounces of distilled water I add on ounce of glycerin This helps in the thermaltransfer of the water and is a pump lube. I also add 1 or 2 drops of "Dawn" dish-washingliquid this helps to break the surface tension of the water helping temp's some. Then thefollowing.

Pentosin w/UV additive mixed at 4 ounces to 40 ounces of distilled water.Then 2 drops of Petra's Tech "PT Nuke" biocide. It is really a good copper based biocide.The Pentosin w/UV and the "PT Nuke" can be found at Petra's Tech. ComThe glycerin is a surfactant and pump lube. A surfactant actually makes the water wetterby breaking the surface tension of the water. That will let the water get down around all thepins in your block. It will also help to get rid of all the little bubbles that can becometrapped on the surfaces in your block. It can also help to lower the viscosity of the waterhelping flow and hopefully lowering temp's.The "Dawn" dish-washing soap is also a surfactant and helps as the glycerin does. Don't useto much of either one or you will hurt your thermal transfer instead of helping. A little goesalong way.The Pentosin is nothing more the Volkswagon anti-freeze. It helps as an anti-corrosiveadditive. I mix mine at a 10-1 ratio. I like the UV component of Petra Techs Pentosinbecause I use a little 4" cold cathode UV lamp to check for leaks with.The PT Nuke is a really good copper based biocide to help kill off any nasties trying togrow in your loop.Just remember the more you add to the distilled water the more you will hurt temp's. Ifyou just use regular ant-freeze 5-15% is about right anything more then 15% and you willget your coolant to viscous slow down the flow and hurt temp's.I always mix a new coolant that I would like to try out in a sealed plastic container for a fewdays before I try it, shake it set it in hot water, try to see if its going to separate out on youor precipitate any particulates out.I have had several that would layer out and some that would cause a lot of little flakes toprecipitate out.I started doing them in a container after one mix I tried caused me to get all kinds ofwhite flakes in my loop. It was really hard to get it all cleaned out. That was a good lessonfor me, I never mix in my loop.But basically the less you can add to your distilled water the better your temp's will be. Ionly add small amounts and for specific reasons. Well its fun to play with to and hopefullyget better temp's then your last batch.


----------



## toolmaker03

Zero4549 said:


> I've had old feser one running in my loop for years now and my res is still totally clear. Dunno what you guys are doing wrong or if all modern coolants are just garbage, but yeah, no clouding of the res here.


interesting indeed!!!!
would you be willing to show a pic of that clear reservoir that has been running the same coolant for years?


----------



## feznz

Interesting but in 2018 PC based coolant is readily available at reasonable prices and 3 year life expectancy tried and tested by many before me.
Its more the titanium and zinc oxide Nano partials that has me thinking, i am reaching 70°C on CPU and 65°C on GPU.
never really heard too many good feedback about dye it does its job and dyes everything including the reservoir which I am not really wanting to take a risk on and the right shade of coolant is important to me.
If I were living in a developing country then Antifreeze great alternative at the time 2012 getting liquids mailed from USA to NZ was a slight challenge usually required sea shipment.




lzf995 said:


> Yea your telling me I want to change it my neck hurts to much especially in this cold haha, but yea there is up sides and downsides of antifreeze and pc coolants some dye the tubes and blocks some dont some stop corrosion some don't its just depends what you need and the budget as antifreeze is cheap and chearful but pc coolant is designed for all copper and to look good


I moved to plant production engineering TBH I will say it here I made a bed at work to sleep during work and making more money than if I were a mechanic I do not miss the customer I NEED MY CAR!!!
Make the move before you stuff your body


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## feznz

Just re done my custom water cooling loop last night cleaned out the blocks and used Mayhems pastel white I had temp issues with GPU temps hitting 70°c now hitting 35°C pretty happy even lost 7°C on CPU which even more happy got to stabilize @5.2Ghz with AVX offset of 2 
Even managed to get another 50Mhz OC on GPU so pretty happy all round.
So for me time if the coolant will remain stable but for me I have changed my opinion about regular car coolant only if there is no access to PC based coolant which was about $25USD


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## bucdan

Juggalo23451 said:


> I just use distilled water with pt nuke or silver coil. That is all you need


Petra's tech is still around?!


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## devpanigrahy

*liquid cooling.*

i made a mixture of castrol coolant with distilled water. i think my temp are little bit high. any suggestions.


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## rancor

devpanigrahy said:


> i made a mixture of castrol coolant with distilled water. i think my temp are little bit high. any suggestions.


What is the resulting concentration of glycol? You don't really want or need to go above 25%.


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## Kryton

rancor said:


> What is the resulting concentration of glycol? You don't really want or need to go above 25%.


This. 

The only real reason I can see using standard anti-freeze in a system for would be to protect against corrosion, it certainly does nothing against biological growth that I've ever known - I could be wrong but just run-of-the-mill anti-freeze itself isn't made for biological control. 
A mix of about 20% should be enough to protect without it placing additional strain on the pump. If you think it needs a little more you can do that but certainly don't exceed a 25% mix, esp with AIO units. 

I've used it before without issues myself, even as a 50/50 mix BUT my case isn't typical. I MUST use it in the colder months of the year because my system is an outdoor setup related to where the rad part is (Water Tower) and in fact it's all subject to ambient temps year round. 

Also my pump is up to task (MCP-655 Vario) so it handles the 50/50 mix just fine if I mix it that way, however I tend to keep it at or about a 25-30% mix since it's not normal to see a hard freeze here even in the coldest months.... But it happens. 

Using about a 20% mix along with things such as a silver coil to control biological growth should do the job without any real worry.


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## toolmaker03

Kryton said:


> This.
> 
> The only real reason I can see using standard anti-freeze in a system for would be to protect against corrosion, it certainly does nothing against biological growth that I've ever known - I could be wrong but just run-of-the-mill anti-freeze itself isn't made for biological control.
> A mix of about 20% should be enough to protect without it placing additional strain on the pump. If you think it needs a little more you can do that but certainly don't exceed a 25% mix, esp with AIO units.
> 
> I've used it before without issues myself, even as a 50/50 mix BUT my case isn't typical. I MUST use it in the colder months of the year because my system is an outdoor setup related to where the rad part is (Water Tower) and in fact it's all subject to ambient temps year round.
> 
> Also my pump is up to task (MCP-655 Vario) so it handles the 50/50 mix just fine if I mix it that way, however I tend to keep it at or about a 25-30% mix since it's not normal to see a hard freeze here even in the coldest months.... But it happens.
> 
> Using about a 20% mix along with things such as a silver coil to control biological growth should do the job without any real worry.


really, this is interesting, so just to make sure I understand you correctly, you are under the impression that your car will start having growth in the water cooling system after it sits for how long? 

yea, there is a lot of common since being applied here. (sarcasm) 

I have never had grown in my water cooling builds, and I have been using prestone green antifreeze for 20 years. don't know what made you thing it does not prevent growth, but your car, or truck, should have been a clear indication that it does prevent growth for occurring.

it is ethylene glycol, it is poisonous to pretty much everything living, or did you just think that it only killed cats?

if you have any plants in your home, start watering them with antifreeze, and see for yourself just how long they live.

or you could just read this. 
https://www.coolingbestpractices.com/technology/measurement/10-glycol-tips-water-chiller-operators.


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## Harsh Mohan

I agree in cars we use 50:50 for water and antifreeze but i would recommend for (distilled water)10:2 to 3(pure antifreeze) ratio for pc some of automotive coolants are premixed (50:50) so look for pure antifreeze it won't corrode any components works great ,looks cool and looks cool in blue light never put pure antifreeze directly in pc as its thick enough to burn your pump in few minutes


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