# [PC Tuning]GeForce GTX 990 and probably Titan X on the way!



## Natskyge

Only 1999$


----------



## iSlayer

Hoping its sensibly (for us) priced like the 970 and to a lesser extent 980.


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## SuprUsrStan

Awww yea GM200. Come to papa!


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iSlayer*
> 
> Hoping its sensibly (for us) priced like the 970 and to a lesser extent 980.


I am guessing:

Titan X - $999
GTX990 - $1099


----------



## jmcosta

no 28 nm process pleeeeease


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## GoldenTiger

Post says this, too:
Quote:


> The source also talks about a possible scenario where NVIDIA indicate this GM200 only in the professional segment


Also, 20 SMM would be 2560 cores, which is one of the possibilities they list, while 22 would be 2816.

A titan x would be great to see though...







and a heck of a card if it came with the 22 smm. I just wouldn't count my chickens yet as to one coming







.


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## SuprUsrStan

Oh, it's still a 28nm card.


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## HiTechPixel

40-50% faster than Titan Black which means it'll also be 40-50% faster than GTX 980. Damn. I'll be waiting for it.


----------



## zorrad

I smell i Christmas present for myself this year!!!


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## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> Oh, it's still a 28nm card.


/care, if it delivers it delivers. EDIT: If anything that might mean we'll see better pricing on it than expected.


----------



## SuprUsrStan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> Oh, it's still a 28nm card.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> /care, if it delivers it delivers.
Click to expand...

It just means that the next 20nm Maxwell card will have like a 80% boost over this one. Now do you care?

You're basically getting a couple hundred more cuda cores over the Titan Black. Now imagine 1000 or 1500 more cuda cores over the titan black. That's what 20nm would mean.


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## TheBlindDeafMute

Have to see it to believe it. People were speculating that 980 would 20-30% faster as well.


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## ZealotKi11er

Hope its true but probably cost 750 for Ti and 1000 for Titan


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## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Post says this, too:


I thought everyone had already gotten enough of this Fud with GK110.


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## SLK

Rumors are rumors. Nvidia is smarter than to release something new this year. They will ride GM204 until next year like they did with GK104. Once AMD shows their hand then things may get interesting, it all depends on the competition to push this tech forward faster.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> I thought everyone had already gotten enough of this Fud with GK110.


Yep, you'd have thought so... I don't have inside knowledge and never have (despite my very accurate predictions over the last several gens for specs







), but I smell a rat here, at least on a personal hunch basis, as to this "news rumor" post. Doesn't quite add up to me here...


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## zealord

2816 cuda cores Maxwell part. Dat performance


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## Olivon

OBR, so take it with a grain of salt.
Sometimes he's right, sometimes he 's wrong ...

Example :

http://pctuning.tyden.cz/component/content/article/1-aktualni-zpravy/29583-exklusivne-geforce-gtx-880-se-predstavuje


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## zinfinion

Hype train!! CHOO CHOO


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## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SLK*
> 
> Rumors are rumors. Nvidia is smarter than to release something new this year. They will ride GM204 until next year like they did with GK104. Once AMD shows their hand then things may get interesting, it all depends on the competition to push this tech forward faster.


There's that, and... I'm not so sure a 24 SMM chip with 384-512 bit bus would even fit inside of the 28nm max reticule size (i.e. the limit at which they can physically create a die), which would be required to create a 2816 shader part like this rumor claims (GPC for Maxwell 2.0 comes in increments of four SMM's, so 22 SMM would require a 24 SMM physical chip). And we know 20nm for GPU's isn't happening this year let alone 16nm finfet so it would have to be 28nm. The only thing we do know is they did make some kind of GM200 chip. Additionally there's the whole market consideration front... why would they release an even better chip and cannibalize their own sales and great market momentum right now when they are already the top dog with everything (price, performance, features, power draw, heat output, temperatures, noise, the whole kit and caboodle)?

As I said before... I smell a rat....







. And clickbait. Both from a physical manufacturing front perspective and a market one.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> According to our source chip should have the following key features:
> 
> Chip size from 10 to 15 percent over the GK110 (551 mm2)
> Number of CUDA in 2816 (20-22 SMM blocks), apparently the first version will be active all chip in SMM
> Memory bus 384 or 512-bit (rather I-384 bit)
> Gaming and professional card should come out at the same time, a name like Titan X
> Launch of Q4 / 2014
> Performance Titan X - 40-50 percent over Titan Black
> 
> Source


GK110 is 561 mm^2 so that could be a 645mm^2 die which is as big as IBM's power8 dies and will probably thus cost a lot of money.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SLK*
> 
> Rumors are rumors. Nvidia is smarter than to release something new this year. They will ride GM204 until next year like they did with GK104. Once AMD shows their hand then things may get interesting, it all depends on the competition to push this tech forward faster.


This is not how things work. A part might get delayed for a couple of months for reasons like that but not for a year. Not even close.

Fact of the matter is that GM200 taped out only a couple of months after GM204. And that GM200 A1 samples have already been shipped around months ago.

Nvidia isn't going to just make chips (the most expensive part of which really is the R&D and getting that specific IC on that specific process ready for production) and then put them in a warehouse for some reason because that's wasting money.

We've been through this with GK110 already. Difference there was that GK100 was scrapped, GK110 taped out around the time of GK104's launch and NV received a massive Tesla order from oakridge.

There really aren't any reasons why GM200 wouldn't be here by the next GTC in March. And even that is quite late already.


----------



## SuprUsrStan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *SLK*
> 
> Rumors are rumors. Nvidia is smarter than to release something new this year. They will ride GM204 until next year like they did with GK104. Once AMD shows their hand then things may get interesting, it all depends on the competition to push this tech forward faster.
> 
> 
> 
> This is not how things work. A part might get delayed for a couple of months for reasons like that but not for a year. Not even close.
> 
> Fact of the matter is that GM200 taped out only a couple of months after GM204. And that GM200 A1 samples have already been shipped around months ago.
> 
> Nvidia isn't going to just make chips (the most expensive part of which really is the R&D and getting that specific IC on that specific process ready for production) and then put them in a warehouse for some reason because that's wasting money.
> 
> We've been through this with GK110 already. Difference there was that GK100 was scrapped, GK110 taped out around the time of GK104's launch and NV received a massive Tesla order from oakridge.
> 
> There really aren't any reasons why GM200 wouldn't be here by the next GTC in March. And even that is quite late already.
Click to expand...

What we'll probably see is a GM200 "Titan X" come out just in time for Christmas and it'll be the full compute card. Then in March of next year, a cut down 20 SMM chip, either a 980Ti or a "GTX 1080" card. My guess is a 980Ti since it's going to be a 28nm card. The "GTX 1080" will probably be the 20nm card.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> This is not how things work. A part might get delayed for a couple of months for reasons like that but not for a year. Not even close.
> Fact of the matter is that GM200 taped out only a couple of months after GM204. And that GM200 A1 samples have already been shipped around months ago.
> There really aren't any reasons why GM200 wouldn't be here by the next GTC in March. And even that is quite late already.


I agree that they won't delay it by any real amount of time as we know GM200 is in working shape and has been moved around, but I'd be very surprised to see any GM200 based cards hit before 2015, and I'm not so sure as I said that they even can fit the rumored specs physically (512 bit bus with 24 physical SMM (22 enabled = 2816 cores)). We'll see, tech rumors are fun!







Maybe we'll see Titan 2 or X or whatever they call it sometime in January to early February regardless of what it actually is.


----------



## SuprUsrStan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> This is not how things work. A part might get delayed for a couple of months for reasons like that but not for a year. Not even close.
> Fact of the matter is that GM200 taped out only a couple of months after GM204. And that GM200 A1 samples have already been shipped around months ago.
> There really aren't any reasons why GM200 wouldn't be here by the next GTC in March. And even that is quite late already.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that they won't delay it a huge amount, but I'd be very surprised to see any GM200 based cards hit before 2015, and I'm not so sure as I said that they even can fit the rumored specs physically. We'll see, tech rumors are fun!
Click to expand...

The original Titan dropped months before the cut down GK110 card. If they release a cut down GM200 card for gamers next march, we'll probably see a Titan full compute card around December or January.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> The original Titan dropped months before the cut down GK110 card. If they release a cut down GM200 card for gamers next march, we'll probably see a Titan full compute card around December or January.


Our posts/edits crossed haha.

This is what I finally left in writing







:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> I agree that they won't delay it by any real amount of time as we know GM200 is in working shape and has been moved around, but I'd be very surprised to see any GM200 based cards hit before 2015, and I'm not so sure as I said that they even can fit the rumored specs physically (512 bit bus with 24 physical SMM (22 enabled = 2816 cores)). We'll see, tech rumors are fun!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Maybe we'll see Titan 2 or X or whatever they call it sometime in January* to early February regardless of what it actually is.


Long story short, I think that makes sense. January seems like the prime launch timeframe for the new Titan to me, though the specs seem unlikely for 28nm. Doable? Yeah, maybe... but I'm not so certain.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> I agree that they won't delay it by any real amount of time as we know GM200 is in working shape and has been moved around, but I'd be very surprised to see any GM200 based cards hit before 2015, and I'm not so sure as I said that they even can fit the rumored specs physically (512 bit bus with 24 physical SMM (22 enabled = 2816 cores)). We'll see, tech rumors are fun!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe we'll see Titan 2 or X or whatever they call it sometime in January to early February regardless of what it actually is.


I've always been skeptical of late 2014 too. However My guess for the specs would be 384bit bus and 3072 cuda cores. With the added DP compute imo that should end up a tad above 600mm^2. Which at this point in the life of 28nm should be more doable than GK110 was back in Q3-Q4 2012 when it started shipping in mass amounts to oakridge.


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## Zipperly

.


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## rusirius

I said this in another thread. I hear 610mm so it might be right that is more inline. yes it is big.


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## Nickyvida

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> /care, if it delivers it delivers. EDIT: If anything that might mean we'll see better pricing on it than expected.


So much for Maxwell being 20nm then.

We've been on 28 far too long already. Its obvious Nvidia wants to milk the whole 28nm now they have AMD in thier sights, if the 980 970 on 28nm milking wasn't enough.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> I've always been skeptical of late 2014 too. However My guess for the specs would be 384bit bus and 3072 cuda cores. With the added DP compute imo that should end up a tad above 600mm^2. Which at this point in the life of 28nm should be more doable than GK110 was back in Q3-Q4 2012 when it started shipping in mass amounts to oakridge.


That would actually line up with exactly with 24 physical SMM's







indeed... assuming it is inside of TSMC's max reticle size for 28nm I think that sounds accurate as to what will be here (384bit bus, 3072 cores, jan. ship date).

Won't see any argument from me on your thoughts there.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nickyvida*
> 
> So much for Maxwell being 20nm then.
> 
> We've been on 28 far too long already. Its obvious Nvidia wants to milk the whole 28nm now they have AMD in thier sights, if the 980 970 on 28nm milking wasn't enough.


20nm hasn't been ready and still isn't for high performance GPU's. AMD isn't using it either for awhile yet and both will possibly skip to 16nm FINFET (aka 20nm with fins).


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## iamhollywood5

I am so damn tired of 28nm and only incremental improvements with each new card. This is ridiculous. As I'm currently sitting on a 780 Ti Classy it would be stupid of me to sidegrade to a 980 and it will probably be the same deal with whatever AMD's next flagship is. I refuse to buy a new GPU until they've moved off 28nm.


----------



## Nickyvida

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> 20nm hasn't been ready and still isn't for high performance GPU's. AMD isn't using it either for awhile yet and both will possibly skip to 16nm FINFET (aka 20nm with fins).


Didn't we see GM200 aka 20nm being taped out as consumer samples as per some leaks?


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iamhollywood5*
> 
> I am so damn tired of 28nm and only incremental improvements with each new card. This is ridiculous. As I'm currently sitting on a 780 Ti Classy it would be stupid of me to sidegrade to a 980 and it will probably be the same deal with whatever AMD's next flagship is. I refuse to buy a new GPU until they've moved off 28nm.


If the 990 or whatever its going to be called comes out with the predicted specs then it will be anything but a side grade, btw a 980 will beat a 780TI so even thats not really a side grade for you either.


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nickyvida*
> 
> Didn't we see GM200 aka 20nm being taped out as consumer samples as per some leaks?


We have _no idea whatsoever_ of the node size of any unreleased chips.


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## John Shepard

My next card if true.


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## rusirius

Funny when i heard 610mm i was what?? then he said 20nm was too far off and it was GO BIG OR GO HOME. Made me laugh.


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## djriful

Big Daddy is coming?

GTX970 is the little sister while GTX980 is the Bro.


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## i7monkey

It's official I'm returning my 980. Pretty much a sidegrade over my 780Ti anyway. Acoustics are great but what's the point I'll wait for GM200.


----------



## ThePath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jmcosta*
> 
> no 28 nm process pleeeeease


If this is 40 to 50% faster than GK110 and consume similar or less power, then why care if it is 28nm or 20nm ? It is still a decent improvement over Gk110 anyway


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## BigMack70

This will likely be a great card once AMD releases their competition and Nvidia has to stop charging trololololol 4-figure prices.

Looking forward to picking one up next year once the price is reasonable.


----------



## rusirius

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThePath*
> 
> If this is 40 to 50% faster GK110 and consume similar or less power, they why care if it is 28nm or 20nm ? It is still a decent improvement over Gk110 anyway


Exactly it really tells you 20nm is not needed at this time. NVIDIA will ride it out. AMD is not going to be so lucky.


----------



## Just a nickname

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> 20nm hasn't been ready and still isn't for high performance GPU's. AMD isn't using it either for awhile yet and both will possibly skip to 16nm FINFET *(aka 20nm with fins).*


It`s multi-gate transistor. Not aka 20nm with fins.


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## MunneY

I till think it'll be late q1 of 2015, but if AMD does launch a card soon, then we may see it earlier.

Honestly, I don't care if its 28 or 20, as long as it give that performance jump. If what Alatar said is right.. 3072 and the 980 is 2048, then nearly 50% faster would be on point. Can you image what kind of monster scores are going to come from that?


----------



## MonarchX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> There's that, and... I'm not so sure a 24 SMM chip with 384-512 bit bus would even fit inside of the 28nm max reticule size (i.e. the limit at which they can physically create a die), which would be required to create a 2816 shader part like this rumor claims (GPC for Maxwell 2.0 comes in increments of four SMM's, so 22 SMM would require a 24 SMM physical chip). And we know 20nm for GPU's isn't happening this year let alone 16nm finfet so it would have to be 28nm. The only thing we do know is they did make some kind of GM200 chip. Additionally there's the whole market consideration front... why would they release an even better chip and cannibalize their own sales and great market momentum right now when they are already the top dog with everything (price, performance, features, power draw, heat output, temperatures, noise, the whole kit and caboodle)?
> 
> As I said before... I smell a rat....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . And clickbait. Both from a physical manufacturing front perspective and a market one.


There are reasons to release a beast card and there are reasons not to release a beast card so soon. nVidia failed with its Titan Z and it absolutely HAS TO claim #1 place for performance, even if its a $999 product. They really DO need to outperform AMD's 295x2 somehow, be it a single-GPU card or dual-GPU card like Titan Z. We might see GTX 990 as a dual-GTX 980. AFAIK some hyped up and graphically intensive games will be coming out in Q4 2014 and Q1 2015 (Witcher 3). Seeing how multi-platform games tend to be poorly optimized for PC, a 40% boost may come real handy. Also, don't forget about something that growing more rapidly than expected - 4K!!! People are adopting it quicker than market anticipated and 4K gaming is mentioned all the time now. Single GTX 980 BARELY provides acceptable framerate @ 4K. A 40-50% performance improvement is really needed in this case. Right now GTX 970/780/Ti/980/Titan/Black are rather close to each other in performance, especially if you consider average max overclock for each. GTX 980 is NOT a beast super-high-end-card that nVidia often releases not long after releasing their high-end cards. GTX 680 stood out due to high performance in comparison to all other mainstream cards, which is why it lasted a year before another beast, Titan, arrived. Right now nVidia does not have a card that stands out like that. GTX 980 is a high-end mainstream card that came out because it was cheaper to produce than the very expensive GTX 780/Ti/Titan cards (which probably weren't selling as successfully as nVidia hoped) and to compete with AMD's main competency - low prices.

On the other hand when GTX 680 was the top dog, GTX Titan appeared a year later, but again, GTX 680 was the only top-dog GPU @ its time. Today we have GTX 760 as a mid-end card, GTX 770 as a high-mid-end card so-to-speak, and then we have a lump of high-end cards (GTX 780-980), where none stand out as very high-end, at least when you overclock them. GTX 980 is the fastest, but upgrading from GTX 780 OC to GTX 980 (even with OC) is not going to provide the same performance improvement as Titan provided over GTX 680... IMHO, nVidia does need to have that one over-priced crazy-performing beast to hold its position.

In the end, its all about business and making money for nVidia. Unless you work with nVidia executives that make all the decisions and know all the relevant information, any expectation is just a guess based on historical evidence...


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Just a nickname*
> 
> It`s multi-gate transistor. Not aka 20nm with fins.


It was a simplistic, sarcastic comment. Not a serious in-depth analysis.


----------



## maarten12100

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nickyvida*
> 
> So much for Maxwell being 20nm then.
> 
> We've been on 28 far too long already. Its obvious Nvidia wants to milk the whole 28nm now they have AMD in thier sights, if the 980 970 on 28nm milking wasn't enough.


To be fair even on 28nm a 650mm^2 chip won't be cheap on the contrary it will be quite expensive. Nothing compared to the exorbitant price it will probably carry but still rather expensive.


----------



## Luck100

I don't know if we will see a Maxwell version of Titan. Why? Because all the power efficiency improvements in Maxwell vanish for GPUGPU compute workloads. For high-stress compute workloads, Maxwell has pretty much the same power efficiency as Kepler. See for example the power analysis at Tom's.


----------



## Lex Luger

This is bull. Nvidia probably was never planning on releasing the gm104 on 28nm, but was forced to do so since all of TSMC capacity on 20nm is going to apple in the near future.

The Gm100 chip will be double the size of gm104, just like gk100 and gk104. There is no way big maxwell is coming to 28nm. I would bet money on that.


----------



## ChronoBodi

how there can be a GM200 on just 28nm? The amount of cores they can put in is limited by 28nm, and as i recall it was easily 80-100% performance boost when you compare the flagship Fermi to the flagship Kepler.

I do not believe they will do a 28nm GM200, the die size required for that just kills it there, the yields would suck, the die size would be over 600mm, i'm just saying.

UNLESS, Nvidia is WILLING to do GM200 on 28nm and just go ahead with the biggest die ever manufactured as far as i know, 600mm+ size die will be crazy. Is it worth it to do so on a mature 28nm node vs working out the kinks of an immature 20nm?


----------



## Nickyvida

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *maarten12100*
> 
> To be fair even on 28nm a 650mm^2 chip won't be cheap on the contrary it will be quite expensive. Nothing compared to the exorbitant price it will probably carry but still rather expensive.


1000$ on a gpu that provides an incremental increase in performance is no excuse matter how one looks at it. Complete ripoff and milking, and even worse now that Nvidia have no competition to speak of with them being trod over with the 980 and 970 performance to price ratio.







I'll be keeping my 780 until Volta if GM200 does turn out to be milking on 28nm again.

Imo, all of this wouldn't have happened if the Titan hadn't come about. We were doing fine until Nvidia got greedy.


----------



## DETERMINOLOGY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nickyvida*
> 
> 1000$ on a gpu that provides an incremental increase in performance is no excuse matter how one looks at it. Complete ripoff and milking, and even worse now that Nvidia have no competition to speak of with them being trod over with the 980 and 970 performance to price ratio.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll be keeping my 780 until Volta if GM200 does turn out to be milking on 28nm again.
> 
> Imo, all of this wouldn't have happened if the Titan hadn't come about. We were doing fine until Nvidia got greedy.


Crazy stuff


----------



## Capt

Oh come on, give me a break Nvidia. I sold my Bugatti last week for the Titan Z and now I have to sell my Pagani Zonda for the Titan X too?


----------



## Stay Puft

I dont see a 980 Ti happening this year at all.


----------



## ChronoBodi

I do have to admit i do want to buy a new GPU or two even if i don't need it... actually, maybe i do, SLI Titans can barely do 4K 60FPS on Crysis 3, actually, more like 45 fps with no AA.

It's just sooooo slow nowadays, the GPU refresh cycle. Makes me fear the upcoming stagnation if node shrinks are getting this hard to do.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stay Puft*
> 
> I dont see a 980 Ti happening this year at all.


Yeah, we will see a new Titan variant before we see a new x80Ti card I am sure.


----------



## dieanotherday

i dont get it,

are the x80's no longer the high end single GPUs?

How did they come to the decision of making the highest end "titan" or "ti"?


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dieanotherday*
> 
> i dont get it,
> 
> are the x80's no longer the high end single GPUs?
> 
> How did they come to the decision of making the highest end "titan" or "ti"?


When they released the 680.


----------



## ChronoBodi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dieanotherday*
> 
> i dont get it,
> 
> are the x80's no longer the high end single GPUs?
> 
> How did they come to the decision of making the highest end "titan" or "ti"?


because the old way of doing it (*80 being the absolute top end card) and introducing the big daddy first is expensive and yield issues are plenty when you do big dies on any node.

It makes more money for them to pass off a midrange die (GK104, GM204, etc) as top-end for people that doesn't know any better besides us, as it is cheaper to make those smaller dies on the same node than the big daddy models.

This strategy all started with GTX 680 that was able to compete with AMD 7970, which WAS designed as top-end, whereas the GTX 680 was originally meant to be a GTX 660 Ti.

So.... a lot of things could have been different if the AMD 7970 had the performance of say, a GTX Titan back then.


----------



## Sheyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zipperly*
> 
> btw a 980 will beat a 780TI so even thats not really a side grade for you either.


He has a 1350+ MHz Ti, so it would be a side-grade for him...


----------



## Asus11

I love the titan releases, I hope the new one comes at in march to keep the same pattern
















the first titan was a good buy on launch as its still one of the best

imo


----------



## ChronoBodi

It's still a sidegrade... just look at the massive 300+ clock rates it takes for the GTX 980 to beat the 780 Ti. Granted, the Maxwell cores ARE faster, but still doesn't make up for the more cores the 780 Ti has, even in slower Kepler form.

Roughly, it's like this, (thank you OccamRazor!)

[email protected] = [email protected] = [email protected] = [email protected] = GTX [email protected]

the 900 series are upgrades to everybody except those with GTX 780 and higher.


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChronoBodi*
> 
> 
> 
> It's still a sidegrade... just look at the massive 300+ clock rates it takes for the GTX 980 to beat the 780 Ti. Granted, the Maxwell cores ARE faster, but still doesn't make up for the more cores the 780 Ti has, even in slower Kepler form.
> 
> Roughly, it's like this, (thank you OccamRazor!)
> 
> [email protected] = [email protected] = [email protected] = [email protected] = GTX [email protected]
> 
> the 900 series are upgrades to everybody except those with GTX 780 and higher.


The problem with that graph is that it is showing ludicrous clockspeeds for the 780Ti on what is *definitely* above stock volts(I can guarantee that most 780Tis don't hit that), and an average OC'd clockspeed on stock voltage for the GTX 980. And we still haven't even had Skyn3t work his magic out to smash through the miserably low power limit set on Maxwell cards. That is probably one of the main reasons Maxwell isn't scaling well in terms of performance gains vs OC.


----------



## HighTemplar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> The problem with that graph is that it is showing ludicrous clockspeeds for the 780Ti on what is *definitely* above stock volts(I can guarantee that most 780Tis don't hit that), and an average OC'd clockspeed on stock voltage for the GTX 980. And we still haven't even had Skyn3t work his magic out to smash through the miserably low power limit set on Maxwell cards. That is probably one of the main reasons Maxwell isn't scaling well in terms of performance gains vs OC.


Actually ALL 5 780 Ti's I've owned have hit 1300mhz on ref voltages, so that's a perfectly normal clockspeed.

2 were reference, 3 were Classifieds.

It's getting from 1300 to 1400 that requires the higher voltages.

One bencher here sold a 780 Ti Kingpin that did 1550 on water, so yeah...

I will say once the 980 Classified hits and can do 1600-1700, it'll be a winner no matter the 780 Ti OC (at least on water, where it matters)


----------



## ChronoBodi

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> The problem with that graph is that it is showing ludicrous clockspeeds for the 780Ti on what is *definitely* above stock volts(I can guarantee that most 780Tis don't hit that), and an average OC'd clockspeed on stock voltage for the GTX 980. And we still haven't even had Skyn3t work his magic out to smash through the miserably low power limit set on Maxwell cards. That is probably one of the main reasons Maxwell isn't scaling well in terms of performance gains vs OC.


Yea, the red bars are the OCed results, but still, the blue bars still shows that the GTX 980's gains over the 780 Ti comes from the higher clock rates, although the faster Maxwell cores doesn't hurt as well.

Actually, what if someone did a clock-for-clock comparison between 980 and 780 ti? i want to see that.


----------



## Murlocke

I see a Titan X in my future.


----------



## SuprUsrStan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChronoBodi*
> 
> UNLESS, Nvidia is WILLING to do GM200 on 28nm and just go ahead with the biggest die ever manufactured as far as i know, 600mm+ size die will be crazy. Is it worth it to do so on a mature 28nm node vs working out the kinks of an immature 20nm?


I agree. To put it into perspective:

Intel i7 5960X 8 core 354mm^2 die
Intel Xeon E5 2690 12 core 483mm^2 die
Intel Xeon E5 2699 18 core 661mm^2 die

The E5 2690 is over $2000 and the 2699 is over $4000. Sure you can argue intel and nvidia are doing different things on different nodes but gosh, a 600mm+ die is as big as it gets...

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/Intel-Xeon-E5-2600-v3-Processor-Overview-Haswell-EP-18-Cores
Quote:


> High Core Count
> 
> 5.56 Billion transistors
> 661 mm2 die size
> Medium Core Count
> 3.83 Billion transistors
> 483 mm2 die size
> Low Core Count
> 2.6 Billion transistors
> 354 mm2 die


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> I agree. To put it into perspective:
> 
> Intel i7 5960X 8 core 354mm^2 die
> Intel Xeon E5 2690 12 core 483mm^2 die
> Intel Xeon E5 2699 18 core 661mm^2 die
> 
> The E5 2690 is over $2000 and the 2699 is over $4000. Sure you can argue intel and nvidia are doing different things on different nodes but gosh, a 600mm+ die is as big as it gets...
> 
> http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Processors/Intel-Xeon-E5-2600-v3-Processor-Overview-Haswell-EP-18-Cores


NEED. MOAR. RADIATOR!.


----------



## Imglidinhere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> *Performance Titan X - 40-50 percent over Titan Black*


Performance should be no less than *double* of the Titan Black for obvious reasons. Maxwell is twice as powerful per watt.

EDIT:

Oh so it's 100% speculation with absolutely NOTHING to base this on? Oh... yeah, that makes sense... >_>

Why is this even in the rumors section? There's not even an official source here. Its literally just some guy talking about what he THINKS will be the next big GPU...


----------



## Master__Shake

probably not going to be the same 550 and 300 price range eh?


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imglidinhere*
> 
> Performance should be no less than *double* of the Titan Black for obvious reasons. Maxwell is twice as powerful per watt.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Oh so it's 100% speculation with absolutely NOTHING to base this on? Oh... yeah, that makes sense... >_>
> 
> Why is this even in the rumors section? There's not even an official source here. Its literally just some guy talking about what he THINKS will be the next big GPU...


Because it is a fun rumor to talk about?









What is wrong with it being in rumors? I have seen worse things posted in rumors.


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Master__Shake*
> 
> probably not going to be the same 550 and 300 price range eh?


Maybe if you add a 1 to the front.


----------



## vlps5122

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sheyster*
> 
> He has a 1350+ MHz Ti, so it would be a side-grade for him...


or a downgrade with that clock lol


----------



## iSlayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imglidinhere*
> 
> Performance should be no less than *double* of the Titan Black for obvious reasons. Maxwell is twice as powerful per watt.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Oh so it's 100% speculation with absolutely NOTHING to base this on? Oh... yeah, that makes sense... >_>
> 
> Why is this even in the rumors section? There's not even an official source here. Its literally just some guy talking about what he THINKS will be the next big GPU...


40-50% is definitely underwhelming unless heat/energy becomes an issue of some sort.

Still better than little Maxwell.


----------



## xxroxx

So, 990 will be a dual 980 or 980 "Ti"?
And should it be a considerable upgrade from 780 Ti? I'm looking for 60+ fps for 1440 at no compromises, and although my 780 Ti can hold it's on, it does so breaking quite a sweat and taking some dips at most demanding games.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xxroxx*
> 
> So, 990 will be a dual 980 or 980 "Ti"?
> And should it be a considerable upgrade from 780 Ti? I'm looking for 60+ fps for 1440 at no compromises, and although my 780 Ti can hold it's on, it does so breaking quite a sweat and taking some dips at most demanding games.


I would assume dual 980 card and yes.


----------



## BigMack70

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xxroxx*
> 
> So, 990 will be a dual 980 or 980 "Ti"?
> And should it be a considerable upgrade from 780 Ti? I'm looking for 60+ fps for 1440 at no compromises, and although my 780 Ti can hold it's on, it does so breaking quite a sweat and taking some dips at most demanding games.


Adding a second 780 ti (or selling it and switching to 2x 970 depending on which is cheaper) would be an easy way to get to 60+ fps at 1440p with no dips/compromised settings, and almost certainly will be far cheaper than whatever the 990/980 ti winds up being.


----------



## xxroxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BigMack70*
> 
> Adding a second 780 ti (or selling it and switching to 2x 970 depending on which is cheaper) would be an easy way to get to 60+ fps at 1440p with no dips/compromised settings, and almost certainly will be far cheaper than whatever the 990/980 ti winds up being.


Yeah... I can't actually get more then one card. Mini ITX here.


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zinfinion*
> 
> Hype train!! CHOO CHOO


Lol. I got my ticket! Now i'm excited.


----------



## ChronoBodi

still, imagine Big Maxwell with this kind of bandwidth efficiency. The only question is if they go 512 bit bus this time or stay with 384 bit.


----------



## Remij

Can't they let us enjoy our 980s for ONE WEEK without talk of the next best thing coming already!!


----------



## xxroxx

Selling my 780 Ti...








Reference cooler 980 ftw


----------



## FlyingSolo

Cant wait to see this card.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> The problem with that graph is that it is showing ludicrous clockspeeds for the 780Ti on what is *definitely* above stock volts(I can guarantee that most 780Tis don't hit that), and an average OC'd clockspeed on stock voltage for the GTX 980. And we still haven't even had Skyn3t work his magic out to smash through the miserably low power limit set on Maxwell cards. That is probably one of the main reasons Maxwell isn't scaling well in terms of performance gains vs OC.


The vast majority of them don't hit above 1200-1220 and some don't even make that for the 780 Ti on air... while so far I've yet to see below 1450-1500 on gtx 980/970 cards and these are with stock BIOS, no power-unlocked ones able to be flashed yet let alone higher volts. Usually takes a lucky good sample of a 780 ti, water cooling, and pumped volts to hit 1300. Maxwell also is on barely out the door drivers still while kepler has gained 20%+ in its lifetime, so Maxwell has tons of room to grow.

780/below = 970/980 are good upgrades for the money especially. 780 Ti with OK oc, want to go sli... sell and get two 970/980's. 780 Ti with huge oc, go wait another 4-6 months for a newer card







. About the long and the short of it







.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> 770/below = 970 /980 are good upgrades for the money especially..


FTFY


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> FTFY


Nah, I think most would argue that selling a 780 non-ti and getting:

$30-40 back in pocket
Faster speed by ~15% oc to oc
Much lower noise levels
MFAA in a driver coming soon
Cooler operation/less heat output
Lower power draw
and even more potential via custom BIOS once an nvflash is found that can work on these things...

Is a pretty worthy upgrade







. I did, though I got $75 back in pocket for doing so







.

Oh, fixed that for you by the way criminal







.


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Nah, I think most would argue that selling a 780 non-ti and getting:
> 
> $30-40 back in pocket
> Faster speed by ~15% oc to oc
> Much lower noise levels
> MFAA in a driver coming soon
> Cooler operation/less heat output
> Lower power draw
> and even more potential via custom BIOS once an nvflash is found that can work on these things...
> 
> Is a pretty worthy upgrade
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I did, though I got $75 back in pocket for doing so
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Oh, fixed that for you by the way criminal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


no thanks.

if i haven't made $50 before i finished my second cup of coffee in the morning then it's a bad day. the truck i drive would cost $20 in gas just to drop off the card for shipping let alone the time to list, sell and package it. sorry my time is money - even the $75 is not attractive nor is ~15% performance increase; 40% or more gets my attention.

so i guess you're saying you think most people are cheap.


----------



## Boomstick727

Titan X: Will buy if, 3000+ Maxwell cores, more than 64Rops, 384/512 bit/bus, 8GB+ VRAM and a new Titan styled cooler..

Please don't launch until Feb though, I want to enjoy this 980 until then, gives my wallet a break as well


----------



## hipno650

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SLK*
> 
> Rumors are rumors. Nvidia is smarter than to release something new this year. They will ride GM204 until next year like they did with GK104. Once AMD shows their hand then things may get interesting, it all depends on the competition to push this tech forward faster.


^This^

I highly doubt Nvidia would release "the fastest GPU ever" only to release "the fastest GPU ever for a second time" in the same year. I would anticipate another GK104 type event where the new part will be Q2 next year at the soonest. I would also expect them to cut right to 20nm for the "Titan II" or whatever it will be called.


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChronoBodi*
> 
> still, imagine Big Maxwell with this kind of bandwidth efficiency. The only question is if they go 512 bit bus this time or stay with 384 bit.


i'll bet on 384-bit / 6GB









EDIT: sub-1k USD price


----------



## friend'scatdied

Good riddance to dual X04 abominations. I'm hoping for a GTX 990 as the GM2X0, with a potential GTX 990 GX2.

Please no repeat of the 690.


----------



## Kinaesthetic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> Good riddance to dual X04 abominations. I'm hoping for a GTX 990 as the GM2X0, with a potential GTX 990 GX2.
> 
> Please no repeat of the 690.


The GTX 690 was a monster. Dunno what you are talking about. The only problem was that its longevity was severely limited by its VRAM.


----------



## deafboy

nVidia... you are tempting me with the Titan. Why you do this to me!


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> The GTX 690 was a monster. Dunno what you are talking about. The only problem was that its longevity was severely limited by its VRAM.


The 690 wasn't a proper X9X card and was more like a well-built reference successor to the GTX 560 Ti 2Win.

I don't understand why the enthusiast market bothers getting excited about doubled-up small dies when it should be two big dies or at least a single big die.


----------



## error-id10t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *looniam*
> 
> so i guess you're saying you think most people are cheap.












Finally a hype-train I can join to. Ignore Titan, I want my TI and unlocked thanks EVGA.

The 990 = 690, so it'll be between 970 SLI and 980 SLI, more towards 980 SLI. This card won't be interesting (to me) and it'll certainly come out before Christmas IMO. I don't know what "taped out" means but that keeps coming up in relation to the BIG BROTHER. We know Titan will come out because so many people bought them for some reason and we know TI will come after that. So I think we're looking at March.. which unfortunately is pretty damn far away still.

But it does bring interesting options for Nvidia. Throw in 20nm or whatever it's called, DP1.3 and confirm full support of DX12 (if it's actually released by then), it's got a lot going for it.


----------



## dieanotherday

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ChronoBodi*
> 
> because the old way of doing it (*80 being the absolute top end card) and introducing the big daddy first is expensive and yield issues are plenty when you do big dies on any node.
> 
> It makes more money for them to pass off a midrange die (GK104, GM204, etc) as top-end for people that doesn't know any better besides us, as it is cheaper to make those smaller dies on the same node than the big daddy models.
> 
> This strategy all started with GTX 680 that was able to compete with AMD 7970, which WAS designed as top-end, whereas the GTX 680 was originally meant to be a GTX 660 Ti.
> 
> So.... a lot of things could have been different if the AMD 7970 had the performance of say, a GTX Titan back then.


So this is how they screw us over heh?

Got the 770 thinkin it's like the 570 or the 470


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Nah, I think most would argue that selling a 780 non-ti and getting:
> 
> $30-40 back in pocket
> Faster speed by ~15% oc to oc
> Much lower noise levels
> MFAA in a driver coming soon
> Cooler operation/less heat output
> Lower power draw
> and even more potential via custom BIOS once an nvflash is found that can work on these things...
> 
> Is a pretty worthy upgrade
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . I did, though I got $75 back in pocket for doing so
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> Oh, fixed that for you by the way criminal
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Faster by 15% at what overclock? Your 970 is not faster @ 1430 than my 780 @ 1306 I am willing to bet. Especially not 15%. It might be as drivers get better, but I will get big Maxwell when I can, so who cares at that point.

No, a smart upgrade for 780 or greater is big Maxwell or at the very least a 980. 970 is a side grade, sorry.


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deafboy*
> 
> nVidia... you are tempting me with the Titan. Why you do this to me!


all they want is your $$$


----------



## hollowtek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Capt*
> 
> Oh come on, give me a break Nvidia. I sold my Bugatti last week for the Titan Z and now I have to sell my Pagani Zonda for the Titan X too?


You can always 3 year lease on approved credit.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Faster by 15% at what overclock? Your 970 is not faster @ 1430 than my 780 @ 1306 I am willing to bet. Especially not 15%. It might be as drivers get better, but I will get big Maxwell when I can, so who cares at that point.
> 
> No, a smart upgrade for 780 or greater is big Maxwell or at the very least a 980. 970 is a side grade, sorry.


I think his point was that, while it is a side-grade, you'll at least get money back in your pocket, vs having to see your 780 depreciate in value even further. Whereas, you will be breaking even (and potentially pocketing some extra money) with the 970.


----------



## JustSomebody

Like i said before, titan 2 just in time for xmas sales. 1000 bucks.

Also don't brother buying it for gaming. your better off getting 2 of newer cards , BIG TIME.

For cost 700 bucks only , you packup 2 GTX 970s (350 a pop for the msi's gaming)

You will get this level power form them.





If being in top 1% of all gaming results , for only 700 bucks is not best damn deal ever , plz tell me what is.

Remb the GTX 780 Ti came out 11/07/13 for 700 bucks. we came a long way in just under 1 year for the same cost!


----------



## mcg75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acupalypse*
> 
> all they want is your $$$


Any company that sells any type of product wants your money.









I'm just hoping the big die Maxwell isn't going to be stuck at 50% faster than a 980. If we're going to start running single card 4K, we need something equal to a pair of 980.


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *looniam*
> 
> no thanks.
> 
> if i haven't made $50 before i finished my second cup of coffee in the morning then it's a bad day. the truck i drive would cost $20 in gas just to drop off the card for shipping let alone the time to list, sell and package it. sorry my time is money - even the $75 is not attractive nor is ~15% performance increase; 40% or more gets my attention.
> 
> so i guess you're saying you think most people are cheap.


I don't believe he really thought through it, before posting about replacing a 780 for a single 970... lol
Now, if he had said that a good trade would be to sell a 780 to get two 970s, it would have made more sense. But, that throws out his whole premise of saving $30-$40. By the way, I do believe that $30-$40 is a lot of money for some people when talking about spending it on a hobby that doesn't add much to ones lifestyle. Tread carefully , as there are plenty of young people, students , and others who read this forum too, and calling someone cheap because they want to save money comes across as condescending... just my two cents


----------



## hollowtek

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> I don't believe he really thought through it, before posting about replacing a 780 for a single 970... lol
> Now, if he had said that a good trade would be to sell a 780 to get two 970s, it would have made more sense. But, that throws out his whole premise of saving $30-$40. By the way, I do believe that $30-$40 is a lot of money for some people when talking about spending it on a hobby that doesn't add much to ones lifestyle. *Tread carefully , as there are plenty of young people, students , and others who read this forum too, and calling someone cheap because they want to save money comes across as condescending... just my two cents*


so much this! Not everyone can dish out $xxx on a whim. I coupon and search for the slickest deals possible every time.


----------



## error-id10t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> I don't believe he really thought through it, before posting about replacing a 780 for a single 970... lol
> Now, if he had said that a good trade would be to sell a 780 to get two 970s, it would have made more sense. But, that throws out his whole premise of saving $30-$40. By the way, I do believe that $30-$40 is a lot of money for some people when talking about spending it on a hobby that doesn't add much to ones lifestyle. Tread carefully , as there are plenty of young people, students , and others who read this forum too, and calling someone cheap because they want to save money comes across as condescending... just my two cents


I think he actually replaced or sold his existing 780TI for the 970 from memory now, but he can confirm either way and it's totally beyond the point and his decision. On the same breath about calling someone cheap, this person is talking about his own situation specifically as evident.

Lastly, that's a one-off saving if you can even call it that. If you're in poverty then buying new GPUs shouldn't even be on your top 50 list?


----------



## deafboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustSomebody*
> 
> Like i said before, titan 2 just in time for xmas sales. 1000 bucks.
> 
> Also don't brother buying it for gaming. your better off getting 2 of newer cards , BIG TIME.
> 
> For cost 700 bucks only , you packup 2 GTX 970s (350 a pop for the msi's gaming)
> 
> You will get this level power form them.
> 
> [SNIP]
> 
> If being in top 1% of all gaming results , for only 700 bucks is not best damn deal ever , plz tell me what is.
> 
> Remb the GTX 780 Ti came out 11/07/13 for 700 bucks. we came a long way in just under 1 year for the same cost!


Please tell me that's at stock...


----------



## JustSomebody

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deafboy*
> 
> Please tell me that's at stock...


Yes it is, just think of the overclocking.


----------



## deafboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustSomebody*
> 
> Yes it is, just think of the overclocking.


Get on it


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> I think he actually replaced or sold his existing 780TI for the 970 from memory now, but he can confirm either way and it's totally beyond the point and his decision. On the same breath about calling someone cheap, this person is talking about his own situation specifically as evident.
> 
> Lastly, that's a one-off saving if you can even call it that. If you're in poverty then buying new GPUs shouldn't even be on your top 50 list?


Great! Now we are calling anyone wanting to save $30 -$40 on a discretionary spend, poor and living in poverty...









Arrogance just keeps getting worse, incredible....


----------



## error-id10t

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> Great! Now we are calling anyone wanting to save $30 -$40 on a discretionary spend, poor and living in poverty...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Arrogance just keeps getting worse, incredible....


"Saving" $40 is nothing, I would say that anyone who actually works spends that amount on coffee / juice / whatever takes your fancy in less than a week. Nobody is calling anyone anything.

Better way of looking at things is depreciation over the year you own a product, not a single one-off saving. If I use a product for 1 year and then sell it for $365 loss from initial purchase price - I've lost a dollar a day.

I stand by what I said, if that's something of a concern to you then buying GPUs should not be in your top 50 list.

Totally off-topic but stop trying to make this into something it isn't.


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *error-id10t*
> 
> "Saving" $40 is nothing, I would say that anyone who actually works spends that amount on coffee / juice / whatever takes your fancy in less than a week. Nobody is calling anyone anything.
> 
> Better way of looking at things is depreciation over the year you own a product, not a single one-off saving. If I use a product for 1 year and then sell it for $365 loss from initial purchase price - I've lost a dollar a day.
> 
> I stand by what I said, if that's something of a concern to you then buying GPUs should not be in your top 50 list.
> 
> Totally off-topic but stop trying to make this into something it isn't.


Saving $40 is something for a student working at Home Depot to save for his first real rig. You know how I know this, because I ran into this nice young fella while shopping at HD, and he told me how every penny that he makes goes towards components. It really made an impression on me, as I never thought that people actually saved up for this hobby.
So, yeah, it does bother me when people call others cheap because they want to save money.

And, no, buying gpus isn't even on my top 100 list, but I have seven of your beloved brand's top gpus.








Just because it comes easy to me, doesn't mean I put other people down.

Your pitch still smacks of arrogance, no matter how you cut it....


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> Saving $40 is something for a student working at Home Depot to save for his first real rig. You know how I know this, because I ran into this nice young fella while shopping at HD, and he told me how every penny that he makes goes towards components. It really made an impression on me, as I never thought that people actually saved up for this hobby.
> So, yeah, it does bother me when people call others cheap because they want to save money.
> 
> And, no, buying gpus isn't even on my top 100 list, but I have seven of your beloved brand's top gpus.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just because it comes easy to me, doesn't mean I put other people down.
> 
> Your pitch still smacks of arrogance, no matter how you cut it....


^ This.


----------



## looniam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> I don't believe he really thought through it, before posting about replacing a 780 for a single 970... lol
> Now, if he had said that a good trade would be to sell a 780 to get two 970s, it would have made more sense. But, that throws out his whole premise of saving $30-$40. By the way, I do believe that $30-$40 is a lot of money for some people when talking about spending it on a hobby that doesn't add much to ones lifestyle. *Tread carefully , as there are plenty of young people, students , and others who read this forum too, and calling someone cheap because they want to save money comes across as condescending... just my two cents*


gotcha and sorry IF my comment came off as condescending to anyone . .perhaps _frugal_ would have been a little more politically correct. though i would hope it would be seen as the inquiry that is instead of making a charter reference about anyone.









on a side note: _sure a penny saved is a penny earned_ but when you're too concerned about saving pennies; you lose the opportunity to earn dollars.


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *looniam*
> 
> gotcha and sorry IF my comment came off as condescending to anyone . .perhaps _frugal_ would have been a little more politically correct. though i would hope it would be seen as the inquiry that is instead of making a charter reference about anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> on a side note: _sure a penny saved is a penny earned_ but when you're too concerned about saving pennies; you lose the opportunity to earn dollars.


Understood, and I do think you meant no harm.


----------



## i7monkey

Anyone news on when the gamer version of GM200 comes out? I don't want to pay $1000 for the Titan version.


----------



## Exilon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Anyone news on when the gamer version of GM200 comes out? I don't want to pay $1000 for the Titan version.


After they've sold enough Maxwell Titans or AMD puts out something to compete, ofc.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Anyone news on when the gamer version of GM200 comes out? I don't want to pay $1000 for the Titan version.


I think this time they will come out the same time. Probably $750 for the Gamer is still 28nm and $1000+ for Titan. It all depends how strong they are. 28nm it will mean they will have huge dies. If they use 384-Bit interface then the gamer will probably have 6GB. The Titan could have 12GB.


----------



## omarh2o

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hipno650*
> 
> ^This^
> 
> I highly doubt Nvidia would release "the fastest GPU ever" only to release "the fastest GPU ever for a second time" in the same year. I would anticipate another GK104 type event where the new part will be Q2 next year at the soonest. I would also expect them to cut right to 20nm for the "Titan II" or whatever it will be called.


Well it wasn't released as the fastest GPU ever, It was "the most advanced gpu ever", next card could be " The Fastest most advanced GPU ever"


----------



## astrallite

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustSomebody*
> 
> Like i said before, titan 2 just in time for xmas sales. 1000 bucks.
> 
> Also don't brother buying it for gaming. your better off getting 2 of newer cards , BIG TIME.
> 
> For cost 700 bucks only , you packup 2 GTX 970s (350 a pop for the msi's gaming)
> 
> You will get this level power form them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If being in top 1% of all gaming results , for only 700 bucks is not best damn deal ever , plz tell me what is.
> 
> Remb the GTX 780 Ti came out 11/07/13 for 700 bucks. we came a long way in just under 1 year for the same cost!


Except average framerates of SLI doesnt tell you the whole story. In every game SLI framerate is exaggerated if you look at any fcat or frame latency graphs. On average if you get 95% scaling the observed framerate is only about 60-70% higher. Worst case scenario in some games, SLI says its 95% faster than single card but with frame latency measurements effective framerate is only 20-30% higher due to ms spikes.

In those cases a Titan II that's 40-50% faster than a single 980 would only have 85% of the average framerate of SLI 970, but observed/real framerate would be 30-40% higher. Nobody cares about benchmark numbers if in-game performance is garbage.


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *astrallite*
> 
> In those cases a Titan II that's 40-50% faster than a single 980 would only have 85% of the average framerate of SLI 970, but observed/real framerate would be 30-40% higher. *Nobody cares about benchmark numbers if in-game performance is garbage*.


i'm sure the 'benchers' would


----------



## JustSomebody

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *astrallite*
> 
> SLI says its 95% faster than single card but with frame latency measurements effective framerate is only 20-30% higher due to ms spikes.
> Nobody cares about benchmark numbers if in-game performance is garbage.


Only issue with your logic, is your thinking inside the box way to much. it's 2014. let's think outside the box!
G-Sync has fixed micro spikes. G-SYNC eliminates stutters so well, that 45fps stutter-free looks much better than stuttery 75fps.
The reason SLI behaves differently, is in how the frame buffer works. With G-Sync enabled, you are getting the full performance out of your graphics card, 100% of the time. Frame buffer is no longer a issue.
Also it's true nobody cares about benchmarks numbers all time, sense g-sync fps is Much better then without g-sync.

Frame buffer issue has been fixed, where living in future. you just got to buy it.

(disclaimer, there are some bugs with some game engines, MORE so that's stupid coded game engines effecting SLI performance, it's rare however i admit in these instants, your 1 card only makes sense"
PS all my games run butter smooth in sli with g-sync.


----------



## Daious

God, I want 20nm to hit soon.


----------



## Threx

The only issue left with SLI (for me, at least) is that it still doesn't work in windowed mode. Nor does G-sync, for that matter. =/


----------



## Mygaffer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> I am guessing:
> 
> Titan X - $999
> GTX990 - $1099


Unless AMD releases something competitive with it, then both of them will have to lower price at the expense of margin. This is why everyone should give up fanboy wars and root for both companies to do well and release good products, when one wins we all lose.
Just ask all the people who bought GTX 280 during the first week of launch.


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *JustSomebody*
> 
> Like i said before, titan 2 just in time for xmas sales. 1000 bucks.
> 
> Also don't brother buying it for gaming. your better off getting 2 of newer cards , BIG TIME.
> 
> For cost 700 bucks only , you packup 2 GTX 970s (350 a pop for the msi's gaming)
> 
> If being in top 1% of all gaming results , for only 700 bucks is not best damn deal ever , plz tell me what is.
> 
> Remb the GTX 780 Ti came out 11/07/13 for 700 bucks. we came a long way in just under 1 year for the same cost!


No offense but you were also claiming the 980 would be $450 (which would have been a great price too).


----------



## Maximization

titan x sounds kick ass


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *deafboy*
> 
> Please tell me that's at stock...


Here is that score:
http://www.3dmark.com/fs/2801330


----------



## nyxagamemnon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Threx*
> 
> The only issue left with SLI (for me, at least) is that it still doesn't work in windowed mode. Nor does G-sync, for that matter. =/


Sli does work in windowed mode. It's crossfire that doesn't. Sli has been working in windowed mode for a long long time.


----------



## NitrousX

Waiting on the Titan X. That would a be nice Christmas present for myself


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NitrousX*
> 
> Waiting on the Titan X. That would a be nice Christmas present for myself


And this is why I bought EVGA.

If it lands for the holiday season, step-up for me!

If not, eh, what I got is still great.


----------



## V3teran

Great stuff, forget the classy 980's, i will be going for 2xTitans, cant wait! Hopefully it will support I2C commands.


----------



## vlps5122

3 titan x please (when non reference pcbs hit shelves)


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vlps5122*
> 
> 3 titan x please (when non reference pcbs hit shelves)


I'd be willing to be we dont see a non-reference titan... just like last time.


----------



## Clos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Threx*
> 
> The only issue left with SLI (for me, at least) is that it still doesn't work in windowed mode. Nor does G-sync, for that matter. =/


From what i understood, SLI from Nvidia DOES work in Windowed (borderless) mode... But AMD's Xfire does NOT (only true full screen).

That's the only reason so far I'm repenting buying a second 7970... and wanted to switch to team green.


----------



## V3teran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> The 690 wasn't a proper X9X card and was more like a well-built reference successor to the GTX 560 Ti 2Win.
> 
> I don't understand why the enthusiast market bothers getting excited about doubled-up small dies when it should be two big dies or at least a single big die.


Really my 690 smashes your TI clock for clock, dont underestimate it in a nice way.








Also the 690 also outperforms the 980 is some games with proper scaling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht-ppOK-58c&feature=youtu.be


----------



## NABBO

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V3teran*
> 
> Really my 690 smashes your TI clock for clock, dont underestimate it in a nice way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also the 690 also outperforms the 980 is some games with proper scaling.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht-ppOK-58c&feature=youtu.be


I agree


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Faster by 15% at what overclock? Your 970 is not faster @ 1430 than my 780 @ 1306 I am willing to bet. Especially not 15%. It might be as drivers get better, but I will get big Maxwell when I can, so who cares at that point.
> 
> No, a smart upgrade for 780 or greater is big Maxwell or at the very least a 980. 970 is a side grade, sorry.


Most 970's OC to 1500-1550+ from the results so far even on power-limited bioses and pull 15% over an average 1200-1250 780 oc (1306 is either golden sample or water with overvolt territory)







. 15% performance gain based on those numbers. 970 is a definite upgrade to a 780, both stock-to-stock and oc-to-oc in all regards: price, performance, heat output, power draw, DSR/MFAA, and VRAM capacity. Hands down, non-debatable.

As to whether someone finds it worth selling their old card and then buying/installing a new one for those benefits is surely a personal-basis thing I agree







.


----------



## GoldenTiger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clos*
> 
> From what i understood, SLI from Nvidia DOES work in Windowed (borderless) mode... But AMD's Xfire does NOT (only true full screen).
> 
> That's the only reason so far I'm repenting buying a second 7970... and wanted to switch to team green.


This is correct... NVidia SLI works in windowed modes nowadays and has for years.


----------



## Clos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> This is correct... NVidia SLI works in windowed modes nowadays and has for years.


Ah, good to know that i was correct. Other than Maxwell being a great upgrade from my 7970's, i am eventually switching for that specific reason. I will eventually be going 21:9 with my current 16:9 as a second monitor for web, media and etc while gaming









Thanks!


----------



## Mand12

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> This is correct... NVidia SLI works in windowed modes nowadays and has for years.


Unfortunately for my plans, while SLI works in windowed mode nowadays, G-Sync does not









Small price to pay, though. The only games I run windowed in it won't matter.


----------



## BBEG

GTX 990 would be dreamy.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V3teran*
> 
> Really my 690 smashes your TI clock for clock, dont underestimate it in a nice way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also the 690 also outperforms the 980 is some games with proper scaling.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht-ppOK-58c&feature=youtu.be


That's volt modded to 1.42v lol (voltage cap on a bunch of gk104 cards is 1.212)

at similar OC's, i don't think it's a fair fight for the gk104's


----------



## MonarchX

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> Most 970's OC to 1500-1550+ from the results so far even on power-limited bioses and pull 15% over an average 1200-1250 780 oc (1306 is either golden sample or water with overvolt territory)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . 15% performance gain based on those numbers. 970 is a definite upgrade to a 780, both stock-to-stock and oc-to-oc in all regards: price, performance, heat output, power draw, DSR/MFAA, and VRAM capacity. Hands down, non-debatable.
> 
> As to whether someone finds it worth selling their old card and then buying/installing a new one for those benefits is surely a personal-basis thing I agree
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Erm, no... GTX 780 with good OC is slightly slower than GTX 970 with good OC. Its not worth upgrading at all. Have you not read the reviews? GTX 780 and 780 Ti stock have real low clocks but they get more performance from OC than GTX 9xx series. GTX 780 Ti @ 1300Mhz is as fast as GTX 980 @ 1450Mhz and the same applies to GTX 780 vs. GTX 970 comparison. Good GTX 980 OC provides some 15-20% FPS increase but GTX 780 Ti OC improves FPS by 20-25%. No point to upgrade. From GTX 780 with bad OC to GTX 980 with good OC is a different story.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> Erm, no... GTX 780 with good OC is slightly slower than GTX 970 with good OC. Its not worth upgrading at all. Have you not read the reviews? GTX 780 and 780 Ti stock have real low clocks but they get more performance from OC than GTX 9xx series. GTX 780 Ti @ 1300Mhz is as fast as GTX 980 @ 1450Mhz and the same applies to GTX 780 vs. GTX 970 comparison. Good GTX 980 OC provides some 15-20% FPS increase but GTX 780 Ti OC improves FPS by 20-25%. No point to upgrade. From GTX 780 with bad OC to GTX 980 with good OC is a different story.


Even then you need to spend $250 to upgrade to GTX980.


----------



## Pikaru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BBEG*
> 
> GTX 990 would be dreamy.


I hope it ends up coming out within the next 90 days so I can use step up lol


----------



## keikei

Are you guys saying 990=dual card? I cant remember Nvidia's last dual card.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *keikei*
> 
> Are you guys saying 990=dual card? I cant remember Nvidia's last dual card.


GTX690


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> GTX690


Seems like they're overdue.


----------



## Rmerwede

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> GTX690


Even though it was largely ignored, the Titan-Z was just released on May 8th.


----------



## SuprUsrStan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Threx*
> 
> The only issue left with SLI (for me, at least) is that it still doesn't work in windowed mode. Nor does G-sync, for that matter. =/


Sli does, g-sync does not but i dont see why windowed full screen cant work as v-sync works with that.


----------



## Seraphic

After the flop that was the Titan-Z, I don't think they will release a dual-gpu card for quite awhile.


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rmerwede*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> GTX690
> 
> 
> 
> Even though it was largely ignored, the Titan-Z was just released on May 8th.
Click to expand...

anything priced at 4 digits automatically gets ignored by many


----------



## TimKuchiki

How much was the 690 when it came out? Could the 990 mirror that price if it is a dual card? I guess what I am asking is if this card does come out. Would it be worth it to splurge on considering how long 690 was a top card?


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V3teran*
> 
> Really my 690 smashes your TI clock for clock, dont underestimate it in a nice way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also the 690 also outperforms the 980 is some games with proper scaling.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht-ppOK-58c&feature=youtu.be


What's your point?

Better minimum FPS and consistently small frame times conferred by a superior single GPU (either the 980 or 780 Ti) are probably more meaningful than 2 weak midrange GPUs that happen to pull better maximums and averages.

From a consumer's perspective the product portfolio really needs a fast small GPU (i.e. 980), full-fat GPU (gaming counterpart of Titan 2/X), and double-up full-fat GPUs (Titan Z successor). A 980x2 would just be a cash grab and a tease.

The 690 stopped being relevant after the full GK110 and the same will be the case for a 980x2 vs. full Maxwell.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rmerwede*
> 
> Even though it was largely ignored, the Titan-Z was just released on May 8th.


I don't consider the Titan-Z in the same class because the price is to absurd to justify it as a gaming card. That is why i didn't mention it.


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seraphic*
> 
> After the flop that was the Titan-Z, I don't think they will release a dual-gpu card for quite awhile.


they will. the gtx980 is perfect for a dual.


----------



## SuprUsrStan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Seraphic*
> 
> After the flop that was the Titan-Z, I don't think they will release a dual-gpu card for quite awhile.
> 
> 
> 
> they will. the gtx980 is perfect for a dual.
Click to expand...

GTX 999


----------



## DrFPS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> they will. the gtx980 is perfect for a dual.


Yes it is.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> GTX 999


No maybe GTX 985x2. None the less 990 is what I'm waiting for!


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *PureBlackFire*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Seraphic*
> 
> After the flop that was the Titan-Z, I don't think they will release a dual-gpu card for quite awhile.
> 
> 
> 
> they will. the gtx980 is perfect for a dual.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> GTX 999
Click to expand...

i'm sure you meant the dollar value


----------



## Imglidinhere

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iSlayer*
> 
> 40-50% is definitely underwhelming unless heat/energy becomes an issue of some sort.
> 
> Still better than little Maxwell.


How's it better than little Maxwell? I'm confused.

GM204 is replacing GK114, not GK110. Just FYI.


----------



## Chita Gonza

I am so so fed up of 28nm and only incremental improvements with each new card. This is ridiculous. As I'm currently sitting on a 780 Ti Classy it would be stupid of me to sidegrade to a 980 and it will probably be the same deal with whatever AMD's next flagship is. Unbearable.


----------



## V3teran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> What's your point?
> 
> Better minimum FPS and consistently small frame times conferred by a superior single GPU (either the 980 or 780 Ti) are probably more meaningful than 2 weak midrange GPUs that happen to pull better maximums and averages.
> 
> From a consumer's perspective the product portfolio really needs a fast small GPU (i.e. 980), full-fat GPU (gaming counterpart of Titan 2/X), and double-up full-fat GPUs (Titan Z successor). A 980x2 would just be a cash grab and a tease.
> 
> The 690 stopped being relevant after the full GK110 and the same will be the case for a 980x2 vs. full Maxwell.


Yeah its weak we all know that and its old as hell, almost cripped with age, still smashes your card for performance without even breaking a sweat.








Tbh it even beats the Ti without the volt-mod, ive seen the benchmarks etc.
I will retiring it soon for new Titans or maybe 2x980 classys, not sure yet but it will be one of those 2 options.

We dont know whether Maxwell can handle 2 fully fledged dies on its PCB without downclocking them slightly. Keplar could so its could be.....

2xFully performance rated 980s=£999
2xFully peformance rated 970's=£799
2xSlight downclocked 980s ( abit like the 690)=£899

Nvidia 'Big Daddy' Maxwell GM200 GPU Alleged Specs Leaked - GTX 980 Ti or GTX Titan X?

http://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-ti-gtx-titan-x-coming/


----------



## tpi2007

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V3teran*
> 
> Yeah its weak we all know that and its old as hell, almost cripped with age, still smashes your card for performance without even breaking a sweat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tbh it even beats the Ti without the volt-mod, ive seen the benchmarks etc.
> I will retiring it soon for new Titans or maybe 2x980 classys, not sure yet but it will be one of those 2 options.
> 
> As for 990=2x970s on 1 physical PCB costing £799.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nvidia 'Big Daddy' Maxwell GM200 GPU Alleged Specs Leaked - GTX 980 Ti or GTX Titan X?
> 
> http://wccftech.com/nvidia-geforce-gtx-980-ti-gtx-titan-x-coming/


Hmm that article is a bit... as if Nvidia was still deciding what to do. With the GTX 600 and 700 series they released cards with a much bigger timeframe, but now they either release the GTX 990 (GM204 x 2) or a GM200 card for the consumer space. I'd go with a GM200 card, as that will always have less game incompatibility problems, although performance may be less than a GTX990. But then again, unless AMD has something up its sleeve, they win the performance crown with a single GPU card against a dual GPU card, so no worries there.


----------



## SuprUsrStan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acupalypse*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> GT*$* 999
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> i'm sure you meant the dollar value
Click to expand...

Fixed.


----------



## Threx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clos*
> 
> From what i understood, SLI from Nvidia DOES work in Windowed (borderless) mode... But AMD's Xfire does NOT (only true full screen).
> 
> That's the only reason so far I'm repenting buying a second 7970... and wanted to switch to team green.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GoldenTiger*
> 
> This is correct... NVidia SLI works in windowed modes nowadays and has for years.


Oooooh, I did not know that!

Originally I was planning to go 970 SLI, but after reading somewhere that SLI doesn't work in windowed mode (I almost always play games in windowed mode) I decided to go with a single 980. But after seeing the price-to-performance of the 980 compared to the 970 (cheapest 980 where I live is $690 and cheapest 970 is $380, both Galax, while the MSI which I'm planning to get are $780 and $470) I was considering maybe just go for a single 970 due to horrid pricing/perf of the 980.

But now that I know SLI works in windowed mode, I think I'll go back to my original SLI 970 plan. Thanks so much for the info, big game changer for me. Rep for you both!

Edit: btw, is there any other issue with windowed+SLI compared to fullscreen+SLI, such as increased micro stutters or anything?


----------



## friend'scatdied

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V3teran*
> 
> Yeah its weak we all know that and its old as hell, almost cripped with age, still smashes your card for performance without even breaking a sweat.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tbh it even beats the Ti without the volt-mod, ive seen the benchmarks etc.


That's cute.









4x vanilla 970s will destroy your 2x 980 Classifieds for performance and _not even care_.


----------



## keikei

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> That's cute.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4x vanilla 970s will destroy your 2x 980 Classifieds for performance and _not even care_.


I dont think Nvidia officially supports 4 way SLI yet for the 970. 3-way, yes.


----------



## iSlayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imglidinhere*
> 
> How's it better than little Maxwell? I'm confused.
> 
> GM204 is replacing GK114, not GK110. Just FYI.


I know that. I'm just saying that its at least projected to be better than little Maxwell.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> That's cute.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4x vanilla 970s will destroy your 2x 980 Classifieds for performance and _not even care_.


Doesn't that depend on scaling, not to mention whether he/she has a mono that can support quad SLI?

The 970s aren't exactly single slot either.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Imglidinhere*
> 
> How's it better than little Maxwell? I'm confused.
> 
> GM204 is replacing GK114, not GK110. Just FYI.


It does replace GK110 because GK110 is EOL. Replacement does not have to be a lot faster. Its same situation with R9 280/280X and R9 285.


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> It does replace GK110 because GK110 is EOL. Replacement does not have to be a lot faster. Its same situation with R9 280/280X and R9 285.


Wrong... It is replacing the gtx 680/770. The 200/210 part will replace the GK110.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MunneY*
> 
> Wrong... It is replacing the gtx 680/770. The 200/210 part will replace the GK110.


You dont seem to understand. It takes their place. You cant by GTX780/Ti anymore technically. Same way GTX680 replaced GTX580. The successor of GTX780 Ti is not GTX 980 which is true.


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> You dont seem to understand. It takes their place. You cant by GTX780/Ti anymore technically. Same way GTX680 replaced GTX580. The successor of GTX780 Ti is not GTX 980 which is true.


I do seem to understand. You can still buy them everywhere. They are becoming EOL, they haven't been canned yet.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chita Gonza*
> 
> I am so so fed up of 28nm and only incremental improvements with each new card. This is ridiculous. As I'm currently sitting on a 780 Ti Classy it would be stupid of me to sidegrade to a 980 and it will probably be the same deal with whatever AMD's next flagship is. Unbearable.


Just like me, sit it out until a truly better card comes out then. New maxwell is definitely disappointing so far comparatively but maxwell just came out, I expect improvements by the tail end of the chipset which is where our cards should be replaced with more powerful versions.


----------



## Pikaru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> Just like me, sit it out until a truly better card comes out then. New maxwell is definitely disappointing so far comparatively but maxwell just came out, I expect improvements by the tail end of the chipset which is where our cards should be replaced with more powerful versions.


Here here! I just got a 780 Ti Kingpin and will be putting it under water!


----------



## nyxagamemnon

For Nvidia there's no reason to keep producing 700 series chips as they have a Maxwell line up from 750TI to 970 to 980 to fill the gaps while they bring the big guns in the near future. It's cheaper for them to make Maxwell cards and reap more profit and still fill in the blanks than to keep making Kepler cards


----------



## V3teran

quote]
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *friend'scatdied*
> 
> That's cute.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4x vanilla 970s will destroy your 2x 980 Classifieds for performance and _not even care_.


LoL


----------



## ENTERPRISE

This is why I am deciding to sell my 780Ti while its worth something and save and wait for the GTX980Ti/990 (Whatever they brand it), no gaming for a bit but luckily the games I am looking to play are not released yet anyway


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ENTERPRISE*
> 
> This is why I am deciding to sell my 780Ti while its worth something and save and wait for the GTX980Ti/990 (Whatever they brand it), no gaming for a bit but luckily the games I am looking to play are not released yet anyway


I was going to do this, but Borderlands comes out on the 14th. I would need for big Maxwell to drop by that time or I would have to buy a temp gpu to use in the meantime. Seems like a lot of hassle, so I am going to hold with what I got for now.


----------



## SuprUsrStan

@ 6:00 it explains why the GTX 980 is just a 256 bit memory bus and why they can go with a lower width bus.

The GM200 chip really can get away with 384 bit bus.


----------



## Threx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> @ 6:00 it explains why the GTX 980 is just a 256 bit memory bus and why they can go with a lower width bus.
> 
> The GM200 chip really can get away with 384 bit bus.


That's interesting.

But in situations where pixels are rapidly changing color, I can see the efficiency going way down.


----------



## psyside

Playing games in windowed mode is requirement now? WOW.


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *MunneY*
> 
> Wrong... It is replacing the gtx 680/770. The 200/210 part will replace the GK110.
> 
> 
> 
> You dont seem to understand. It takes their place. You cant by GTX780/Ti anymore technically. Same way GTX680 replaced GTX580. The successor of GTX780 Ti is not GTX 980 which is true.
Click to expand...

sorry to interrupt you guys, TIs are dropping prices (<500), just in case you want to grab one before they're gone








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Threx*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Syan48306*
> 
> @ 6:00 it explains why the GTX 980 is just a 256 bit memory bus and why they can go with a lower width bus.
> 
> The GM200 chip really can get away with 384 bit bus.
> 
> 
> 
> That's interesting.
> 
> But in situations where pixels are rapidly changing color, I can see the efficiency going way down.
Click to expand...

that's why i think the real replacement for 780 Ti should be at least 384-bit / 6GB.


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acupalypse*
> 
> sorry to interrupt you guys, TIs are dropping prices (<500), just in case you want to grab one before they're gone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that's why i think the real replacement for 780 Ti should be at least 384-bit / 6GB.


Yeah.... the Classifieds are still 620$ though.... NO deal there.


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MunneY*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *acupalypse*
> 
> sorry to interrupt you guys, TIs are dropping prices (<500), just in case you want to grab one before they're gone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that's why i think the real replacement for 780 Ti should be at least 384-bit / 6GB.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.... the Classifieds are still 620$ though.... NO deal there.
Click to expand...

$499


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acupalypse*
> 
> $499


show me a 780 TI classified for 499?


----------



## Shogon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MunneY*
> 
> show me a 780 TI classified for 499?


I'm assuming he may mean used, which if a 780 Classy is selling for under $350 in the marketplace here, somewhere around $500 may be possible. Given the 970 though a lot of users, unless in certain situations, would opt to spend less and go with the 970 and receive more.


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MunneY*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *acupalypse*
> 
> $499
> 
> 
> 
> show me a 780 TI classified for 499?
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *MunneY*
> 
> show me a 780 TI classified for 499?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm assuming he may mean used, which if a 780 Classy is selling for under $350 in the marketplace here, somewhere around $500 may be possible. Given the 970 though a lot of users, unless in certain situations, would opt to spend less and go with the 970 and receive more.
Click to expand...

every 780 Ti at microcenter is $499


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acupalypse*
> 
> every 780 Ti at microcenter is $499


In Store only...


----------



## hwoverclkd

yeah, i'm sure there are still a lot of folks who live close to a MC store.


----------



## Seraphic

I would rather save the $500 on a 780T and use it toward a 980TI might be a few weeks away.


----------



## Pikaru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seraphic*
> 
> I would rather save the $500 on a 780T and use it toward a 980TI might be a few weeks away.


Do you have a source or something saying it's a few weeks away? I'd like to know as I'd be able to use step up since I just got my KPE.


----------



## Seraphic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pikaru*
> 
> Do you have a source or something saying it's a few weeks away? I'd like to know as I'd be able to use step up since I just got my KPE.


I have no idea. Just the rumors going around.
Just speaking for myself for waiting for the Ti/Titan, as I am not building my system until December.


----------



## Djacdk

I think it makes sense for Nvidia to release a full GM200 card within the next 4 months, if you consider that the people most likely to buy it, are the ones who already own 780TIs or Titans, so are unlikely to buy 980s because of the somewhat small upgrade. I think the released 900series cards right now, are more focused towards people upgrading from 680 or 770. I'll admit that this might be hopeful thinking, considering that I'm planning a build around Jan-Feb to max out Witcher 3 on a ROG Swift monitor. My dream cards for that rig would be 2 ASUS GTX 980Ti(?) ROG Matrix with the cooler from the 780Ti Matrix cards, was absolutely beautiful


----------



## Defoler

Most likely nvidia are going to give the 980 a few good weeks to sell before pushing the new TI and titan.
I would not be surprised if they show the titan first like last time, and delay the 980 ti until AMD are ready with their 390x.


----------



## Seraphic

Titan will be the upper end though, right?

1 - Titan
2 - 980 Ti
3 - 980 GTX
4 - 970 GTX


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seraphic*
> 
> Titan will be the upper end though, right?
> 
> 1 - Titan
> 2 - 980 Ti
> 3 - 980 GTX
> 4 - 970 GTX


If you base it off last time, you'll see a titan x, then a few months later you'll get a 1080, then 1080Ti, then titan x revision. I doubt we see a 980 Ti tbh


----------



## V3teran

Yeah i dont think we will see a Ti either until Titan X is out and maybe 6-8 months later we will see a Ti after the Titan X.


----------



## erocker

I'm not so sure we'll see another Titan. Perhaps when Maxwell comes around it's end of life.


----------



## BradleyW

What comes out after Maxwell? Hope we get a 6GB 980 Ti.


----------



## Zipperly

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BradleyW*
> 
> What comes out after Maxwell? Hope we get a 6GB 980 Ti.


Would a 980TI not be maxwell?


----------



## nyxagamemnon

The only reason Nvidia would release a 980TI Is if AMD beat there Titan X.

So in all reasoning this is what will happen.

AMD will Release the R9 300 Series which will beat the GTX 980. Then Nvidia Will come back with there answer The 980TI.

The Titan is on it's own schedule it will come out when it does.


----------



## hwoverclkd

I think there will always be a Ti...but whether it'd be called 980 ti or something else is the question.


----------



## Caffinator

half these cards dont even fit in my case. i have a bunch of useless sapphire 280x laying around. i didn't realize the heatsink is 9000 inches long


----------



## PureBlackFire

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acupalypse*
> 
> I think there will always be a Ti...but whether it'd be called 980 ti or something else is the question.


----------



## hwoverclkd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MunneY*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *acupalypse*
> 
> sorry to interrupt you guys, TIs are dropping prices (<500), just in case you want to grab one before they're gone
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> that's why i think the real replacement for 780 Ti should be at least 384-bit / 6GB.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah.... the Classifieds are still 620$ though.... NO deal there.
Click to expand...

how about $489 + 30 rebate, still a bad deal?

http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce-Dual-Link-Graphics-03G-P4-2888-KR/dp/B00H9ZRCBO/ref=sr_1_4?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1413321826&sr=1-4&keywords=780+ti


----------



## SlackerITGuy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acupalypse*
> 
> how about $489 + 30 rebate, still a bad deal?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/EVGA-GeForce-Dual-Link-Graphics-03G-P4-2888-KR/dp/B00H9ZRCBO/ref=sr_1_4?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1413321826&sr=1-4&keywords=780+ti


Awesome card at a pretty tasty price.

EDIT: I'm gonna have a pretty hard time choosing a card in January/Feb.

GTX 970 FTW tops my list for the moment


----------



## Ramzinho

i kinda feel these will be waiting for the AMD gpus to counter them.


----------



## Ghoxt

Who knows at this point. I'm sitting here waiting to buy likely a whole bunch of the GM200 (6-8 Gig) cards if and when they come out... GPU Render madness.


----------



## xCamoLegend

Real Maxwell please. I want a power hungry card with at least a 384bit bus and at least 5gb VRAM, what's the point of great performance per watt if they are just going to be gimped reasonably low powered cards.

On another note, NEVER GOING MULTI GPU EVER AGAIN. Not one of these new release games has a crossfire profile yet.


----------



## Redeemer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyxagamemnon*
> 
> The only reason Nvidia would release a 980TI Is if AMD beat there Titan X.
> 
> So in all reasoning this is what will happen.
> 
> AMD will Release the R9 300 Series which will beat the GTX 980. Then Nvidia Will come back with there answer The 980TI.
> 
> The Titan is on it's own schedule it will come out when it does.


Rumor has it the 380x will take care of the 980 and the 390x will go head to head with the 980TI, the Titan X wont be any faster than the 980TI anyway


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redeemer*
> 
> Rumor has it the 380x will take care of the 980 and the 390x will go head to head with the 980TI, the Titan X wont be any faster than the 980TI anyway


A rumour is not the same thing as a dream.


----------



## Redeemer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MapRef41N93W*
> 
> A rumour is not the same thing as a dream.


Why AMD hasn't beat Nvidia before?


----------



## TheLAWNOOB

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redeemer*
> 
> Why AMD hasn't beat Nvidia before?


Rumor says the 370X will destroy GTX 980. 380X is meant to destroy GTX 980 Ti and the second Titan.

390X will be a dual 380X card.

nVidia is still more efficient, but AMD will be faster clock for clock, and will have more cores.


----------



## Cyro999

Moar*


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Redeemer*
> 
> Why AMD hasn't beat Nvidia before?


390x > 980 by 10% at 300W TDP MSRP 549 (due to AIO requirement add $50 to price)
380x > 970 by 5% 250-275W TDP MSRP 299-349

NVIDIA promptly responds with:

980ti/Titan2 > 390x depending on node shrink and branding (if Titan or not) by 20-40% 230W TDP MSRP 599-999 (if Titan)
980 to 399-479
970 price stays the same
960 at 219


----------



## Halogamer2145

I really hope the Titan 2 comes before the end of the year.


----------



## V3teran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Halogamer2145*
> 
> I really hope the Titan 2 comes before the end of the year.


It is coming before the end of the year.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V3teran*
> 
> It is coming before the end of the year.


I can see a dual GPU GTX990 before the end of the year but I don't see them rushing to get the Titan follower up card out so soon, I think that will come Feb/March


----------



## DesertRat

So when does the GTX 985 hit then that's a cut down Titan 2?


----------



## DuraN1

I just wish people would stop calling it the 980Ti. Ti implies a fully unlocked chip, GM204 is already at its full capacity in the GTX980. New chip, new name. Like GTX680 was GK104 and GTX780 was GK110. GM200 will have a different name. And it will appear in professional cards first. This has been said over and over and over and over yet people don't seem to get it. Tesla card, then perhaps a Titan.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DuraN1*
> 
> Ti implies a fully unlocked chip, GM204 is already at its full capacity in the GTX980. New chip, new name. Like GTX680 was GK104 and GTX780 was GK110.


The 660ti is pretty much the most locked version of gk104. It's a completely different GPU to the 660.

The 650 and 650ti are not the same chip either - so i wonder where you got that "Ti implies a fully unlocked chip" from









It seems arbitrary at best. It was true for 1 out of 3 of the Kepler releases (last 2 and a half years)


----------



## John Shepard

At least nvidia could make those 8gig 980s.
I need a new gpu asap but i refuse to spend 600+ euros on card without at least 6GB of vram.


----------



## Cyro999

Do what i did and spend ~320 euros on one with 4GB then









Two scenarios: Either there is a better GPU like a 384 bit, 6GB card released some time soon at a non-titan pricepoint (in which case great! go sell gpu for a 50 euro loss and buy one after using it for 3-6 months/whatever)

or there isn't one.. and you have one of the best GPU's available short of a titan black for a long time


----------



## Gorea

Ti is simply a naming scheme and nothing more; it has to do with price and performance placement relative to everything else in a series.

980 ti sounds better than 985


----------



## Shadowarez

Just wait for the Titan 2 Black or Titan 2 Z then we will see power Hungry Cards In Maxwell Arch.


----------



## iSlayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheLAWNOOB*
> 
> Rumor says the 370X will destroy GTX 980. 380X is meant to destroy GTX 980 Ti and the second Titan.
> 
> 390X will be a dual 380X card.
> 
> nVidia is still more efficient, but AMD will be faster clock for clock, and will have more cores.


More cores is working out so well for them on desktops ain't it, SB losing to FXs and all that







.


----------



## DuraN1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cyro999*
> 
> The 660ti is pretty much the most locked version of gk104. It's a completely different GPU to the 660.
> 
> The 650 and 650ti are not the same chip either - so i wonder where you got that "Ti implies a fully unlocked chip" from
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It seems arbitrary at best. It was true for 1 out of 3 of the Kepler releases (last 2 and a half years)


True, they did use a lot of internal revisions of the GK106, GK107 and GK104. The full names are in the datasheets on wiki, too lazy to link them









I should have been more specific. The point i was TRYING to make (at work, and a bit busy) was that people automatically assume there will be a 980Ti soon because thats what nVidia did with the 780. The 980 and the 780 are different segments. The 980 is what the 680 was, a midrange chip performing so well it earned a high end SKU (and price). I just don't think its possible nVidia will name the GM200 980Ti. What they seem to be doing is scaling down the GM204. GM200 will perform A LOT better than GM204 based on what we've seen from Maxwell thus far.


----------



## Neo_Morpheus

28nm process on these? come on they could have had such a smaller die shrink by now, they really are trying hard now to hold up the line of progression to make those extra few bucks. The problem is you $1k card won't last 1.5 years before the next lot arrive, then you will feel bad for all the OC'ing and hard work you put into these one's.


----------



## DuraN1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Neo_Morpheus*
> 
> 28nm process on these? come on they could have had such a smaller die shrink by now, they really are trying hard now to hold up the line of progression to make those extra few bucks. The problem is you $1k card won't last 1.5 years before the next lot arrive, then you will feel bad for all the OC'ing and hard work you put into these one's.


Neiter AMD nor nVidia has their own Fabs. It's not up to them.


----------



## Travis6

Well I learned the hard way that I should wait for a Ti after buying my 560 (non TI). They always have a Ti and they are just milking the 970/980. When Christmas gets closer, they may raise the bar with the Ti and really set the world on fire. I was waiting a week on back order for a 970 when I decided to cancel my order and just wait-besides that I needed grocery money









Besides it just seems strange that there is such a wide margin between the $329 970 and the $550 980, I think it leaves enough room for the Ti variants. imo


----------



## jojoenglish85

whatever Ti comes out next, ill purchase it probably, just depends.


----------



## Halogamer2145

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> I can see a dual GPU GTX990 before the end of the year but I don't see them rushing to get the Titan follower up card out so soon, I think that will come Feb/March


What makes you say that? I really hope that it somehow does come before the end of the year. The reason is because I'm moving to a different country in January and will probably need to build my PC then since I can't have them shipped after I move. Anyways, fingers crossed.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Travis6*
> 
> Well I learned the hard way that I should wait for a Ti after buying my 560 (non TI). They always have a Ti and they are just milking the 970/980. When Christmas gets closer, they may raise the bar with the Ti and really set the world on fire. I was waiting a week on back order for a 970 when I decided to cancel my order and just wait-besides that I needed grocery money
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Besides it just seems strange that there is such a wide margin between the $329 970 and the $550 980, I think it leaves enough room for the Ti variants. imo


There is a perfect spacing in price and specs between the 970 and the 980 for there to be a 970Ti. Problem would be that it would probably cannibalize the 980 for all except for those that wanted quad SLI.


----------



## Travis6

From what I've read the 970 does oc very well for the price, but does not achieve 4k 60+ fps in SLI, more like 45 fps. The 980 SLI does manage 4k 60+ so as I get ready to build my first computer that I need future proofed I am stuck in a financial conundrum and looks like I will get a 4790k but just keep using my old GTX 560 until I see either the 980 drop in price or a 970 Ti emerge.


----------



## Cyro999

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Travis6*
> 
> From what I've read the 970 does oc very well for the price, but does not achieve 4k 60+ fps in SLI, more like 45 fps. The 980 SLI does manage 4k 60+ so as I get ready to build my first computer that I need future proofed I am stuck in a financial conundrum and looks like I will get a 4790k but just keep using my old GTX 560 until I see either the 980 drop in price or a 970 Ti emerge.


It depends on the game and settings.

Since the 980 and 970 have everything the same aside from core counts, assuming linear scaling with cores (which is an absolute best case scenario) it would be ~23% stronger.

With a base of 50fps for the 970's that would be 61.5 for the 980's. More realistically though it's probably ~58. The scaling would be different on different loads, so it's hard to put an exact number on it. I would only consider 980's with no budget limit, or if 2-way 970 was not enough, to potentially avoid 3-way - that sounds like what you are going for, but don't expect a groundbreaking performance difference with the price difference, because price vs performance got thrown out of the window for 980


----------



## HighTemplar

For those that have invested in 980s already, a Tri-SLI 980 setup will def be the better bang for the buck as would be expected if you're building a 4K rig that is playable with some AA.

With that said, I'll be buying 2 of them for sure if they're 15-20% faster than the 980s I have per GPU. I have no doubts that will be the case.

Nvidia knows we'll all fall over ourselves for them and they'll be out of stock like the 980s are, unless they go for a $1k pricetag, instead of something like the 780 Ti launch price, and this time they can't stick us with 3GB of VRAM


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Kinaesthetic*
> 
> The GTX 690 was a monster. Dunno what you are talking about. The only problem was that its longevity was severely limited by its VRAM.


A bit like the 780 ?







lol


----------



## HighTemplar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> A bit like the 780 ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lol


You can still play 4K on 780s/780 Ti's without MSAA in most games. As for anything below 4K, it still rips through games, and I have a dedicated 780 Classified in my sons rig that I actually put in place of my spare 290X because of how hot the VRMs were getting on that card with the GPU Mod. It rips through 1080p Crysis 3 no problem, you just can't get happy with the AA is all.

Some people are still happy with their GTX 680/770 and I know of people that bought a 770 just a few months back and will probably have it for years to come. 1080p is plenty doable even with 2GB. Just because 1 or 2 titles come out that require over 3gb for the ultimate settings doesn't mean by any stretch of the imagination that the 780 is as obsolete as the 690 has become.

The 690 was tech that was built with a ton of horsepower behind it that still beat out 780 Ti's/Titan Blacks, and I'm pretty sure it trades blows with a 980 at 1080p. To limit the frame buffer to 2GB was a huge mistake, or perhaps obsolete by design after a given window of time, which works well for the type of gamers that spend 1k on single cards.

Gaming tech hasn't progressed enough to the point where you can say 3GB of VRAM is equal to 2GB. I'd say 3GB is perfect for right now. Future proof, no. But it can still stretch its legs.

I hate to see older tech discarded so easily because a new kid on the block comes around. Coming from someone selling a Quad GK110 setup, it may seem hypocritical, but if I could, I'd love to save 1 just to play with and I still might. For comparison's sake I've got a 680, 780, 3 290X's, 4 780 Ti's, and 2 980's. It's definitely worthy of a review, but it would be the most time consuming thing I've done in a while.

Personally I haven't put a chip in my X79 rig for nearly a year because my 3770k rig is perfectly suited for 2 way SLI, and capable of 4. PCIe bandwidth isn't a limiting factor without significant data throughput requirements, such as high SuperSampling or 4K, in which case 3.0 becomes necessary, however 2.0 @ 8x via 4 way is still viable.

I'd say the best bang for the buck 4K or 1440p 120hz rig would have to be 5820K with 3 GTX 980s, with Big Maxwell being the next step up that ladder. With PCIe 3.0 and 28 lanes, I think it's a perfect segment, and pushes people like myself with an X79 setup (missing a CPU) into being obsolete. What's the point of spending 350-400+ on a 3930K/4930K used with an option like that...

Edit: Having said that, I do think that the price of entry with DDR4 is a bit of a hurdle into X99, as is the price of admission for even an entry level mobo.


----------



## HighTemplar

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1351?vs=1184

Quite interesting. I couldn't find ANY reviews after checking 6 to 7 on google that included the GTX 690 in the comparison. I'm wondering if it was for a reason, because those with 690's are still beating the 980 EVEN considering all of the tests in this comparison are either 1440p w/AA or 4K with or without AA.

Quite interesting indeed. Someone with a 1080p monitor would be in quite a predicament if they had a 690 right now, as unless they were willing to lose $ selling their 690 for 30% retail at release, it would be a wash at that resolution or even 1440p in 'current' titles.

Once Big Max comes out, we'll finally have a single GPU that will dethrone the 690 at any resolution, and I can't wait.









I do concede that the 980 beats the 690 once overclocking is taken into consideration, however I wasn't expecting to see the 690 pull ahead in any titles at 1440p, let alone 4k with AA, in which case in Grid 2 it's within 3% of the 980.


----------



## cstkl1

980 is to fight a 380. Its actually the midrange card on maxwell.

So lets see how titan II does.

So instead of talking abt the pricing of titan ii.
Lol gtx 980 will drop to usd399-449.

Account for that 30 percent loss in less than 6 months.

So the longer amd takes to release. The longer the game time value.
So if we see history again
990 - dual 980 2x4gb
Titan II interesting part here i think it will be 384bit 12gb gddr6
1080 384bit gddr6
1080ti 385bit gddr6
titan ii black full maxwell 384bit gddr6
Titan z ii dusl t2b.

This is what i reckon is going to happen.


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HighTemplar*
> 
> You can still play 4K on 780s/780 Ti's without MSAA in most games. As for anything below 4K, it still rips through games
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> , and I have a dedicated 780 Classified in my sons rig that I actually put in place of my spare 290X because of how hot the VRMs were getting on that card with the GPU Mod. It rips through 1080p Crysis 3 no problem, you just can't get happy with the AA is all.
> 
> Some people are still happy with their GTX 680/770 and I know of people that bought a 770 just a few months back and will probably have it for years to come. 1080p is plenty doable even with 2GB. Just because 1 or 2 titles come out that require over 3gb for the ultimate settings doesn't mean by any stretch of the imagination that the 780 is as obsolete as the 690 has become.
> 
> The 690 was tech that was built with a ton of horsepower behind it that still beat out 780 Ti's/Titan Blacks, and I'm pretty sure it trades blows with a 980 at 1080p. To limit the frame buffer to 2GB was a huge mistake, or perhaps obsolete by design after a given window of time, which works well for the type of gamers that spend 1k on single cards.
> 
> Gaming tech hasn't progressed enough to the point where you can say 3GB of VRAM is equal to 2GB. I'd say 3GB is perfect for right now. Future proof, no. But it can still stretch its legs.
> 
> I hate to see older tech discarded so easily because a new kid on the block comes around. Coming from someone selling a Quad GK110 setup, it may seem hypocritical, but if I could, I'd love to save 1 just to play with and I still might. For comparison's sake I've got a 680, 780, 3 290X's, 4 780 Ti's, and 2 980's. It's definitely worthy of a review, but it would be the most time consuming thing I've done in a while.
> 
> Personally I haven't put a chip in my X79 rig for nearly a year because my 3770k rig is perfectly suited for 2 way SLI, and capable of 4. PCIe bandwidth isn't a limiting factor without significant data throughput requirements, such as high SuperSampling or 4K, in which case 3.0 becomes necessary, however 2.0 @ 8x via 4 way is still viable.
> 
> I'd say the best bang for the buck 4K or 1440p 120hz rig would have to be 5820K with 3 GTX 980s, with Big Maxwell being the next step up that ladder. With PCIe 3.0 and 28 lanes, I think it's a perfect segment, and pushes people like myself with an X79 setup (missing a CPU) into being obsolete. What's the point of spending 350-400+ on a 3930K/4930K used with an option like that...
> 
> Edit: Having said that, I do think that the price of entry with DDR4 is a bit of a hurdle into X99, as is the price of admission for even an entry level mobo.


Of course I don't mean the 780 is obsolete that would be silly, I'm just saying 4gb on those would have been optimum already and why not 5 GB on maxwell ?









Why lately it's always been AMD who increased the VRAM on their cards .. curious, if AMD were crazy enough they would put 6gb on their next year release at least for high end cards !


----------



## soulwrath

I guess I am going to keep my mATX in hopes of 990 GTX or the Titan X being $1000 lol


----------



## wirk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V3teran*
> 
> It is coming before the end of the year.


If Titan X is coming B4 EOY it has to be in time for the season period meaning it should arrive sometime in November.

But when then would be coming the next, 20nm generation? End of Q1 2015 at earliest? This is of interest since 20nm should be adding another 30% performance min on top of Titan X. Thus in short time we may expect 100% performance jump over the current cards.


----------



## DIYDeath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wirk*
> 
> If Titan X is coming B4 EOY it has to be in time for the season period meaning it should arrive sometime in November.
> 
> But when then would be coming the next, 20nm generation? End of Q1 2015 at earliest? This is of interest since 20nm should be adding another 30% performance min on top of Titan X. Thus in short time we may expect 100% performance jump over the current cards.


because of this I'll be holding off on upgrading my Titan Black until 20nm. Seems like the best bet is to upgrade every second "generation".


----------



## wirk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> because of this I'll be holding off on upgrading my Titan Black until 20nm. Seems like the best bet is to upgrade every second "generation".


Sounds like a good strategy. Risk is in the waiting time: will 20nm chips be made early 2015?, will they make top range chips at the start or rather start with the low-end?? Thus in the worst case Titan XXL in 20nm is 1 year away and that's looongish.


----------



## V3teran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DIYDeath*
> 
> because of this I'll be holding off on upgrading my Titan Black until 20nm. Seems like the best bet is to upgrade every second "generation".


Just upgrade when you need too. Don't get caught on the bandwagon.


----------



## wirk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V3teran*
> 
> Just upgrade when you need too. Don't get caught on the bandwagon.


Expected 100% performance jump against Titan Black will justify the upgrade.


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> Of course I don't mean the 780 is obsolete that would be silly, I'm just saying 4gb on those would have been optimum already and why not 5 GB on maxwell ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why lately it's always been AMD who increased the VRAM on their cards .. curious, if AMD were crazy enough they would put 6gb on their next year release at least for high end cards !


I agree, if 980 Maxwell had 6G to start the fun I would already own several. I'm stuck as the 6G 780's dissappeared in a pinch and this close to 2015 I'm not going to buy 6 Titan's and have last gen while paying a premium at the end of the generation. (Yes 6 for GPU Octane Rendering)

I need a mixture of Cuda Cores and as much memory the cards can give me to fit my scenes. Right now I'm floating and in between waves. No need to go backwards personally, so I'm a candidate for cloud GPU rendering, which I'm not exactly crazy about.

OT:

Also I'm dying to get my GPU Render Rig under way. Case got here yesterday. I'm soon to be broke from EK, Bitspower, and Intel.


----------



## tinmann

Come to papa!


----------



## Just a nickname

Wow this thread is still going? Gtx 990 and titan x soon coming? 21 days ago? Click bait I say.


----------



## V3teran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wirk*
> 
> Expected 100% performance jump against Titan Black will justify the upgrade.


100% performance jump over a Titan Black well i doubt that very much. Not a chance.


----------



## wirk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V3teran*
> 
> 100% performance jump over a Titan Black well i doubt that very much. Not a chance.


Assuming 980 is ~Titan Black, there is potential for 50-60% ramp for the 28 nm Titan X which is due to increasing the chip size of 980 to Titan Black level (5 bln transistors vs. 7 bln). Then there is potential from moving to and tweaking at 20 nm , estimated at 30-40%. Not a chance for this???


----------



## StrongForce

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> I agree, if 980 Maxwell had 6G to start the fun I would already own several. I'm stuck as the 6G 780's dissappeared in a pinch and this close to 2015 I'm not going to buy 6 Titan's and have last gen while paying a premium at the end of the generation. (Yes 6 for GPU Octane Rendering)
> 
> I need a mixture of Cuda Cores and as much memory the cards can give me to fit my scenes. Right now I'm floating and in between waves. No need to go backwards personally, so I'm a candidate for cloud GPU rendering, which I'm not exactly crazy about.
> 
> OT:
> Also I'm dying to get my GPU Render Rig under way. Case got here yesterday. I'm soon to be broke from EK, Bitspower, and Intel.


Holy crap never heard of that, sounds crazy, 6 titans, god that's alot of money right there







.

So you're into game developement.. that's awesome man !


----------



## V3teran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wirk*
> 
> Assuming 980 is ~Titan Black, there is potential for 50-60% ramp for the 28 nm Titan X which is due to increasing the chip size of 980 to Titan Black level (5 bln transistors vs. 7 bln). Then there is potential from moving to and tweaking at 20 nm , estimated at 30-40%. Not a chance for this???


Maybe but not 100% as you first stated, not a chance.


----------



## Ghoxt

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StrongForce*
> 
> Holy crap never heard of that, sounds crazy, 6 titans, god that's alot of money right there
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> So you're into game developement.. that's awesome man !


Indie deveopment yes, and the GPU's are not in SLI

sneakpeek


----------



## wirk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V3teran*
> 
> Maybe but not 100% as you first stated, not a chance.


You know I'm optimist, now tell us your dark predictions for this two-step ramping up: ->full Titan alike->20nm


----------



## V3teran

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wirk*
> 
> You know I'm optimist, now tell us your dark predictions for this two-step ramping up: ->full Titan alike->20nm


It will be on 28nm as far as the rumours go. 28nm Maxwell is alot different to 28nm Keplar regarding power efficiency.
I just hope it will be here before Xmas, say mid November hopefully for an annoucement.


----------



## wirk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *V3teran*
> 
> It will be on 28nm as far as the rumours go. 28nm Maxwell is alot different to 28nm Keplar regarding power efficiency.
> I just hope it will be here before Xmas, say mid November hopefully for an annoucement.


Then we are talking about 50% boost over 980 without overclocking.


----------



## provost

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wirk*
> 
> Assuming 980 is ~Titan Black, there is potential for 50-60% ramp for the 28 nm Titan X which is due to increasing the chip size of 980 to Titan Black level (5 bln transistors vs. 7 bln). Then there is potential from moving to and tweaking at 20 nm , estimated at 30-40%. Not a chance for this???


It would be nice, if the expected jump in performance is 100% over Titan. So, you saying maybe by the time we see it on 20nm?


----------



## dpoverlord

The Titans I have in my system were my singular best investment. Still better than anything out there, volt unlocked on air hits 1250. On water can hit over 1500mhz. Still able to sell them close to factory price. It's like you bought something and the value just increased...

_Wait thats exactly what happened._


----------



## Aluc13

Is this actual concrete info or speculation?


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dpoverlord*
> 
> The Titans I have in my system were my singular best investment. Still better than anything out there, volt unlocked on air hits 1250. On water can hit over 1500mhz. Still able to sell them close to factory price. It's like you bought something and the value just increased...
> 
> _Wait thats exactly what happened._


I'm patiently waiting for the GTX 990 but seeing the Titan Z prices drop like a rock are making me wonder if I should Purchase one of those instead, EVGA has them listed for $1499 and $1599 for the Superclocked.. Might wait a little longer see if they dip even more... Still waiting for Etailers to adjust pricing on them tho.


----------



## dpoverlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> I'm patiently waiting for the GTX 990 but seeing the Titan Z prices drop like a rock are making me wonder if I should Purchase one of those instead, EVGA has them listed for $1499 and $1599 for the Superclocked.. Might wait a little longer see if they dip even more... Still waiting for Etailers to adjust pricing on them tho.


Still doesnt make sense in my opinion, Titanz is slower than SLI Titans. Wait most definitely!


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dpoverlord*
> 
> Still doesnt make sense in my opinion, Titanz is slower than SLI Titans. Wait most definitely!


Dual GPU cards vs Two Physical cards has always been slower


----------



## dpoverlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Dual GPU cards vs Two Physical cards has always been slower


Of course, but go to Ebay or the trading forums and buy 2 used titans that may not be as great overclockers, but they will still be faster than the Titan Z. Titan Z is a wast better to go for AMD's x2 solution.


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dpoverlord*
> 
> Of course, but go to Ebay or the trading forums and buy 2 used titans that may not be as great overclockers, but they will still be faster than the Titan Z. Titan Z is a wast better to go for AMD's x2 solution.


titan Z is perfect for mini itx & personally id rather go green, too much invested in g sync etc etc


----------



## brasco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> Dual GPU cards vs Two Physical cards has always been slower


But not always at 150% the price of the two cards...


----------



## wirk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *provost*
> 
> It would be nice, if the expected jump in performance is 100% over Titan. So, you saying maybe by the time we see it on 20nm?


There are couple of things more to consider. GTX 980 has excellent overclocking which is due to its low power envelope. If Titan Z 28 nm chip is a fully expanded 980 chip then it is close to maximum power consumption and its overclocking capability is much lower than stock 980. So Titan Z might squeeze out 50-55% more than 980 but only 25% more than well overclocked 980. On top of this, there comes Titan XL which is 20 nm. If this would be just Titan Z in 20 nm it could have 15% improvement with overclocking due to the lower power. But then if the Titan XL is implemented up to full thermal limit in 20 nm it can gain 25% over Titan Z. So we could be at 80% total over non-overclocked 980 and with additional optimizations 100% might be reachable. But then there is economic factor in all this. Nvidia has no incentive right now to really pushing the performance in consumer sector to maximum. First, competition from AMD is lagging behind. Second, they said current cards are good enough for most consumers. Third, market for the PC cards is not expanding to say the least. Fourth, the main push is in mobile/portable devices. We will see all impact of these trends from the Titan Z chip. If this chip has the same number of transistors as in Titan Black but in the Maxwell architecture this will mean we are still riding on the maximum performance track. But if this chip has less transistors than Titan Black it will mean Nvidia is adjusting to the economy.


----------



## spin5000

If they're going to release a Titan X Black / 980 Ti down the line, then these two cards (Titan X, 990) are still not the "true", top-of-the-line Maxwell cards for me. Just like the Titan non-black and 780 non-ti aren't the "true" top-of-the-line Kepler cards (the Titan black and 780 Ti are).

I'm assuming the 990 is just two 980s rather than being based on the "980 Ti"?...


----------



## Asus11

titan z cards have plummeted in price..

I wonder if something big is around the corner..


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spin5000*
> 
> If they're going to release a Titan X Black / 980 Ti down the line, then these two cards (Titan X, 990) are still not the "true", top-of-the-line Maxwell cards for me. Just like the Titan non-black and 780 non-ti aren't the "true" top-of-the-line Kepler cards (the Titan black and 780 Ti are).
> 
> I'm assuming the 990 is just two 980s rather than being based on the "980 Ti"?...


A 990 _should_ be two 980s if/when it is released.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> titan z cards have plummeted in price..
> 
> I wonder if something big is around the corner..


Dual GM204 card just before xmas would make perfect sense.

I doubt we'll see GM200 before mid-late Q1 2015.


----------



## Eagle1911

They must release 'something' close to GTA5 / Witcher 3 premiere.


----------



## soulwrath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> titan z cards have plummeted in price..
> 
> I wonder if something big is around the corner..


thought they were slashed due to 295x2 being slashed also?


----------



## wirk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *spin5000*
> 
> If they're going to release a Titan X Black / 980 Ti down the line, then these two cards (Titan X, 990) are still not the "true", top-of-the-line Maxwell cards for me. Just like the Titan non-black and 780 non-ti aren't the "true" top-of-the-line Kepler cards (the Titan black and 780 Ti are).
> I'm assuming the 990 is just two 980s rather than being based on the "980 Ti"?...


When talking about Titan X we have in mind 28nm node in which there is full Maxwell architecture. Kepler Titans have 7 bln transistors, 980 Maxwell has 5 bln. There is thus area for at least 2 bln more in Maxwell Titan X chip. In the 20 nm node there could definitely be a Titan XXL, expanded Titan X by new capacity of the 20nm, e.g. to 9 bln transistors.


----------



## Aluc13

I wonder what prices would be for most of these. $1000+?


----------



## soulwrath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aluc13*
> 
> I wonder what prices would be for most of these. $1000+?


More than likely that will be their base


----------



## brasco

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> titan z cards have plummeted in price..
> 
> I wonder if something big is around the corner..


I was in this thread earlier and had a glance at the Titan Z price (it was £2000+) just gone back after you posted this and it's £1058. That's a pretty substantial "we're clearing the stock out rapidly" move.


----------



## criminal

Sucks to be this guy:


----------



## MonarchX

If nothing comes out by the end of November, I'm upgrading my GTX 780 Ti to GTX 980, although is pretty much a 1GB VRAM upgrade for total of about $300 when you consider return on GTX 780 Ti sale...


----------



## Craftyman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> If nothing comes out by the end of November, I'm upgrading my GTX 780 Ti to GTX 980, although is pretty much a 1GB VRAM upgrade for total of about $300 when you consider return on GTX 780 Ti sale...


You should buy dual 970s, $660 for 60-80% faster than 780 Ti.


----------



## Pikaru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> If nothing comes out by the end of November, I'm upgrading my GTX 780 Ti to GTX 980, although is pretty much a 1GB VRAM upgrade for total of about $300 when you consider return on GTX 780 Ti sale...


Upgrade itch? I just picked up another 780 ti. It'll be a much better upgrade than getting a 980


----------



## Chargeit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Craftyman*
> 
> You should buy dual 970s, $660 for 60-80% faster than 780 Ti.


In games that support Sli.

I would not move from a 780 ti to sli 970's unless you know damned good and well what you play would benefit from it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pikaru*
> 
> Upgrade itch? I just picked up another 780 ti. It'll be a much better upgrade than getting a 980


I have the itch too.. Only problem is, I want a card that isn't already dated in some way with tons of Vram. I really want a single card to push 5760x1080. I added a 2nd 780. That lasted two days before I pulled it and sold it. Sli isn't for me. Heck, the single 780 still does very well at pushing 5760x1080. Good enough that the move to a 980 wouldn't be a noticeable improvement compared to my 780 which OC's nicely (1320/6600) at that res.

Nvidia needs to give us what we need.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chargeit*
> 
> In games that support Sli.
> 
> I would not move from a 780 ti to sli 970's unless you know damned good and well what you play would benefit from it.
> I have the itch too.. Only problem is, I want a card that isn't already dated in some way with tons of Vram. I really want a single card to push 5760x1080. I added a 2nd 780. That lasted two days before I pulled it and sold it. Sli isn't for me. Heck, the single 780 still does very well at pushing 5760x1080. Good enough that the move to a 980 wouldn't be a noticeable improvement compared to my 780 which OC's nicely (1320/6600) at that res.
> 
> Nvidia needs to give us what we need.


Yep, all of this.









GM200 or bust for me. The current offerings are boriiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggg.


----------



## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MonarchX*
> 
> If nothing comes out by the end of November, I'm upgrading my GTX 780 Ti to GTX 980, although is pretty much a 1GB VRAM upgrade for total of about $300 when you consider return on GTX 780 Ti sale...


Don't bother it's just a sidegrade. Ive owned the 780/780Ti and very briefly a 980. There was a bigger jump going from the 780 to 780Ti than from the 780Ti to the 980.

Wait for GM200.


----------



## spin5000

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> Yep, all of this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GM200 or bust for me. The current offerings are boriiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggg.


Damn right! Full-blown Maxwell cards (equivalent to the 780 Ti and/or Titan Black) or I'm staying with my dual 780 Tis.


----------



## i7monkey

So what's your strategy when buying GM200?

Are you waiting for the Titan version or non-Titan?

Will the Titan version have better performance like last time (780 vs Titan 1) or will they release equally performing chips with except the non-Titan will have gimped compute?

I'd rather not spend a grand on Titan 2, because the compute gimped version will be out soon after, but I don't want to wait 3-4 months for it.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> So what's your strategy when buying GM200?
> 
> Are you waiting for the Titan version or non-Titan?
> 
> Will the Titan version have better performance like last time (780 vs Titan 1) or will they release equally performing chips with except the non-Titan will have gimped compute?
> 
> I'd rather not spend a grand on Titan 2, because the compute gimped version will be out soon after, but I don't want to wait 3-4 months for it.


I bought the first Titan just to have the 780 drop a few moths later. I will wait for the x80 GM200 card.

Edit: Which honestly if you lucked out with a good Titan (which I didn't), then that is probably one of the best $1k ever spent on a gpu. The Titan is still relevant and is approaching two years old!


----------



## Ultracarpet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> I bought the first Titan just to have the 780 drop a few moths later. I will wait for the x80 GM200 card.
> 
> *Edit: Which honestly if you lucked out with a good Titan (which I didn't), then that is probably one of the best $1k ever spent on a gpu. The Titan is still relevant and is approaching two years old!*


yeeea was just going to say,

If you bought a titan at launch it really was not that bad of a buy. Almost 2 years old and can still reach flagship performance levels with an OC.


----------



## i7monkey

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *criminal*
> 
> I bought the first Titan just to have the 780 drop a few moths later. I will wait for the x80 GM200 card.


This is what I'm hoping for too but the wait is going to suck and it's going to perform probably 20% less than Titan 2, no?

*Titan 2* (28nm)---> 3-4 months later ---> *GTX 1080* (28nm, 20% slower than Titan 2)---> Q4 2015 ---> *GTX 1080Ti* full chip (if on 28nm, 15% faster than Titan 2, if on 16nm, 30-40% faster) ---> 1 month later *Titan 2 Black* (full chip 16nm)

If it's going to play out like last time, we're getting Titan 2 and months later a 20% slower GTX 1080, and if we wait much longer we might get a 15% faster (compared to Titan 2) GTX1080Ti or 30-40% faster 1080Ti if it's on 16nm.

My problem: I don't want to pay a grand for Titan 2, I don't want a crippled version of the GTX 1080, so I have to wait for the fully unlocked, 16nm, non-Titan verison. Only problem with that is I'd have to wait a year.

How do you think it's going to play out, and which version are you waiting for? Crippled 1080 or full 1080Ti, possibly on 16nm?


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> This is what I'm hoping for too but the wait is going to suck and it's going to perform probably 20% less than Titan 2, no?
> 
> *Titan 2* (28nm)---> 3-4 months later ---> *GTX 1080* (28nm, 20% slower than Titan 2)---> Q4 2015 ---> *GTX 1080Ti* full chip (if on 28nm, 15% faster than Titan 2, if on 16nm, 30-40% faster) ---> 1 month later *Titan 2 Black* (full chip 16nm)
> 
> If it's going to play out like last time, we're getting Titan 2 and months later a 20% slower GTX 1080, and if we wait much longer we might get a 15% faster (compared to Titan 2) GTX1080Ti or 30-40% faster 1080Ti if it's on 16nm.
> 
> My problem: I don't want to pay a grand for Titan 2, I don't want a crippled version of the GTX 1080, so I have to wait for the fully unlocked, 16nm, non-Titan verison. Only problem with that is I'd have to wait a year.
> 
> How do you think it's going to play out, and which version are you waiting for? Crippled 1080 or full 1080Ti, possibly on 16nm?


Well to be fair, the 780 is only 5-8% slower than the Titan and only 14-18% slower than the 780Ti. So hopefully we will see the same performance differences between the 1080, Titan 2 and 1080 Ti.

Personally, I would love to wait until the 1080 Ti is released before getting GM200. But knowing me, I will have to have the 1080 Classy if\when it gets released.


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> So what's your strategy when buying GM200?
> 
> Are you waiting for the Titan version or non-Titan?
> 
> Will the Titan version have better performance like last time (780 vs Titan 1) or will they release equally performing chips with except the non-Titan will have gimped compute?
> 
> I'd rather not spend a grand on Titan 2, because the compute gimped version will be out soon after, but I don't want to wait 3-4 months for it.


For me it will depend on cost/timing. I don't need compute AFAIK, but do want a faster single GPU than the 980/290x/780Ti. It'd sure be nice if they launched Titan and the GTX version at the same time. Was hoping to have heard more by now to be honest too. We're 2/3 of the way through October with not a peep and some people were saying November. That seems less likely now. I also wonder if as well as the 980 is selling is delaying it.


----------



## ebduncan

i have a feeling Nvidia is going to change naming schemes.

Also it makes sense the bigger versions of maxwell will come soon. Nvidia will be sure to milk the 28nm node as long as they can until they release pascal on 16nm/20nm.

I doubt Nvidia will call their next flagship the 1080, but who knows just a hunch i have.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ebduncan*
> 
> i have a feeling Nvidia is going to change naming schemes.
> 
> Also it makes sense the bigger versions of maxwell will come soon. Nvidia will be sure to milk the 28nm node as long as they can until they release pascal on 16nm/20nm.
> 
> I doubt Nvidia will call their next flagship the 1080, but who knows just a hunch i have.


Yeah, I doubt it will be 1080 myself. More just a place holder most people are using.

If I had to guess, I would say Nvidia is going to come up with something like AMD did (N9-180GTX) or just skip over 1080 and go with 1180GTX.


----------



## Alatar

Yeah honestly keeping the old naming scheme wouldn't be so bad after you get rid of the 'GTX 1080' name









GTX 1180, GTX 1280, GTX 1380, or GTX 1480 doesn't sound too bad.

The problem for nvidia is that they've invested a lot of time and money into brand awareness and the age old naming scheme is a part of that brand awareness. Changing it to something completely different might actually really hurt sales.


----------



## hwoverclkd

probably something that's catchy / easy to remember, but def not 1080 lol ...there's not much competition in gpu anyways, either AMD or NVIDIA only for most people.


----------



## CasualCat

Why not the GTX 985 and 985 Ti (assuming they have 2 GTX models with the GM200)? They've used the XX5 nomenclature in the 600 and 700 series if only in a limited capacity.

Also wouldn't be unprecedented to just call it 980ti. The 650/650 Ti had different chips.


----------



## Aluc13

Why is the 1080 name pretty much unused? I'm curious because that doesnt sound like a bad name to name your devices.


----------



## hwoverclkd

if 1080, that might easily be confused with a display device (resolution)







there's 1080p, 1080i, gtx 1080 (?), gtx 1080Ti (?) i don't know but it sounds funny to me


----------



## Ghoxt

Right now a 990 at a normal dual GPU price would be a godsend, and I'd buy as many as I could. 6 actually (for rendering)


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ghoxt*
> 
> Right now a 990 at a normal dual GPU price would be a godsend, and I'd buy as many as I could. 6 actually (for rendering)


cant see it being priced lower than a titan z is at this point and we all know the titan z will be better for rendering


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> cant see it being priced lower than a titan z is at this point and we all know the titan z will be better for rendering


Why wouldnt it be lower, i can see it being priced at $1099 USD


----------



## Seraphic

By the way, Newegg has the TitanZ for $1500 if anyone is interested.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487038


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seraphic*
> 
> By the way, Newegg has the TitanZ for $1500 if anyone is interested.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487038


Out of curiousity, how is a dual GPU card like this treated within windows? Does it have to be set up in SLI, as if it were two cards? Can you run two of these things and get quad-SLI? What happens if you put three of them in?


----------



## drnilly007

Yes sli must be enabled and quad possible


----------



## Aluc13

For some reason i didnt think of that


----------



## wirk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Aluc13*
> 
> Why is the 1080 name pretty much unused? I'm curious because that doesnt sound like a bad name to name your devices.


1080 would be really bad smelling old stuff since it is associated with the HDTV resolution while graphics is now in the 4K era. Proper number should be thus 2160








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Seraphic*
> 
> By the way, Newegg has the TitanZ for $1500 if anyone is interested.
> 
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487038


Is this a sign Titan X is creeping behind the corner? If Titan X is 150% of Titan Black or 75% of Titan Z than the price is reduction is logical.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krel*
> 
> Out of curiousity, how is a dual GPU card like this treated within windows? Does it have to be set up in SLI, as if it were two cards? Can you run two of these things and get quad-SLI? What happens if you put three of them in?


SLI is limited to 4 GPUs, it does not matter on how many cards. So one can not make SLI out of three dual GPU cards. There was a talk about expanding the SLI to 8 GPUs but the problem is that SLI scaling is not particulary good, 2-way is big jump. 3-way is moderate over 2-way and 4-wy SLI brings is just little over 3-way. Of course one can put many GPUs without SLI and use them e.g. for rendering or numerical calculations. The limit is then in Windows driver support (less than 8?) but there are reports of peple running as many as 16 GPUs in Linux.


----------



## Eagle1911

I thought SLI was internally enabled with dual-GPU cards like Titan Z and cant be set to run non-SLI. So u say it still needs to be enabled in NV control panel? I ask this because not every rendering software supports SLI (which makes Titan Z useless in this case).


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Eagle1911*
> 
> I thought SLI was internally enabled with dual-GPU cards like Titan Z and cant be set to run non-SLI. So u say it still needs to be enabled in NV control panel? I ask this because not every rendering software supports SLI (which makes Titan Z useless in this case).


GTX 590, 690, Titan Z etc have an internal PLX chip for SLI , you can still disable one GPU on the card via the Nvidia control panel if you want, or didicate one GPU to Physx


----------



## soulwrath

wish you could tri sli with 990 & 980 like you can with 295x2 & 290x -________-


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *soulwrath*
> 
> wish you could tri sli with 990 & 980 like you can with 295x2 & 290x -________-


Would rather they (both companies) work on SLI/CF scaling so you can hit +90-95%/gpu and have it always work not be title dependent. Then tri sli (imho) would make sense after that since right now scaling often gets worse going from 2x SLI to 3x SLI except for a few titles.


----------



## ebduncan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CasualCat*
> 
> Would rather they (both companies) work on SLI/CF scaling so you can hit +90-95%/gpu and have it always work not be title dependent. Then tri sli (imho) would make sense after that since right now scaling often gets worse going from 2x SLI to 3x SLI except for a few titles.


It actually has nothing to do with how the cards are designed. Its how the graphics engine powering the game works.

Which is why the scaling of sli and crossfire is highly dependent on each and every game title.


----------



## Pikaru

Is there any upcoming events that Nvidia will be at that this will possibly get announced?


----------



## Yop

Paris games week starts in a couple of days.

Nothing else jumps off the list other then black Friday

http://www.nvidia.com/page/events.html

Ces 2015 in January being the next logical time to announce things.


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Yop*
> 
> Paris games week starts in a couple of days.
> 
> Nothing else jumps off the list other then black Friday
> 
> http://www.nvidia.com/page/events.html
> 
> Ces 2015 in January being the next logical time to announce things.


Can't see that level of announcement being announced for Paris games week either. I'm guessing if/when they do a reveal it'll be at their own event. Just wish one of them would announce their next flagship card already to get this ball rolling...


----------



## Pikaru

It'd be nice if it's released around the holidays. I'd like to step up my 780 TIs to whatever the flagship card is.


----------



## MrTOOSHORT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pikaru*
> 
> It'd be nice if it's released around the holidays. I'd like to step up my 780 TIs to whatever the flagship card is.


Yup, you're in dire need of getting a better card.


----------



## Pikaru

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MrTOOSHORT*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Pikaru*
> 
> It'd be nice if it's released around the holidays. I'd like to step up my 780 TIs to whatever the flagship card is.
> 
> 
> 
> Yup, you're in dire need of getting a better card.
Click to expand...

You know my pain! Lol


----------



## kael13

While it does make sense to have something replacing Titan's price point, I'll be a sad panda if they're still 28nm.

My 780 can't handle all these pixels.

Dammit Apple, stop stealing all dat fab space!


----------



## CaliLife17

I have a hard time thinking that Nvidia is just willy nilly going to release a product that beats their current flagship for no reason. Next Maxwell will be to counter AMD's 3xx line. They have no reason at all right now to release it before AMD. They have the performance king at 4k and non 4k resolutions, they win on energy consumption, and they did a good job pricing them.

You will not see a new Maxwell till feb-march, after AMD releases their flagship.


----------



## rcfc89

Just release the gtx990 already. Some of us with 690's have been waiting for far too long. Inb4 buy a TitanZ. No thanks Jeff.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> Just release the gtx990 already. Some of us with 690's have been waiting for far too long. Inb4 buy a TitanZ. No thanks Jeff.


I think nvidia is greedy. I don't think that they will release anything if they don't have to.


----------



## CaliLife17

They wont release a new product, until AMD makes it necessary. No reason to release a new product, as they already the performance crown right now.


----------



## criminal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CaliLife17*
> 
> They wont release a new product, until AMD makes it necessary. No reason to release a new product, as they already the performance crown right now.


They don't when it comes to a dual gpu card.

Nvidia has as much reason now to release a GTX990 as they did when they released the GTX690.


----------



## nleksan

GM204 has the potential to make for perhaps the best overall dual GPU card of any architecture thus far. The dramatically lower power requirements would likely result in a card with two full 980 dies, and minimal to no practical decrease in overclocking compared to 2x 980 SLI.
Not to mention that the cards would almost certainly work very well with a, properly designed, air cooler (anyone else remember the heat from the 7990, 590, or the current 295X2?)...


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> Just release the gtx990 already. Some of us with 690's have been waiting for far too long. Inb4 buy a TitanZ. No thanks Jeff.


The Z is cheaper to buy than 2 x 980s in some countries







let alone a 990


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> Just release the gtx990 already. Some of us with 690's have been waiting for far too long. Inb4 buy a TitanZ. No thanks Jeff.


Im hoping as well, but i really hope they make it a 10.5" card like the Titan-Z instead of the 11" length of the GTX690


----------



## LRRP

http://slumz.boxden.com/f13/nvidia-maxwell-gm200-titan-ii-gtx-980-ti-slipping-to-2016-tsmc-16nm-volume-production-delays-stret-2141492/


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LRRP*
> 
> http://slumz.boxden.com/f13/nvidia-maxwell-gm200-titan-ii-gtx-980-ti-slipping-to-2016-tsmc-16nm-volume-production-delays-stret-2141492/


Yeah..

I'm gonna trust that site -_-


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MunneY*
> 
> Yeah..
> 
> I'm gonna trust that site -_-


http://wccftech.com/tsmc-buys-14b-worth-equipment-16nm-volume-prediction-begins-q2q3-2015/


----------



## iamhollywood5

I think we're simply damned to 28nm forever.


----------



## CasualCat

Have any "leaks" ever said GM200 would be 16nm? I know there have been date rumors suggesting it'd be here late 2014 or early 2015, but not those dates in conjunction with 16nm. Seems these "sources" are reaching for conclusions. I also thought there was already a GM200 tape out months ago. Article seems...full of guesses no different than any on a forum.


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> http://wccftech.com/tsmc-buys-14b-worth-equipment-16nm-volume-prediction-begins-q2q3-2015/


That DEFINTELY a more credible source...


----------



## Sam60I

Do you think this will lower the gtx 980's price?


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MunneY*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *LRRP*
> 
> http://slumz.boxden.com/f13/nvidia-maxwell-gm200-titan-ii-gtx-980-ti-slipping-to-2016-tsmc-16nm-volume-production-delays-stret-2141492/
> 
> 
> 
> That DEFINTELY a more credible source...
Click to expand...

It's a *TRUSTED* source. I mean look at itz namez!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MunneY*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> http://wccftech.com/tsmc-buys-14b-worth-equipment-16nm-volume-prediction-begins-q2q3-2015/
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah..
> 
> I'm gonna trust that site -_-
Click to expand...

Come on..
Even wccfetch? i mean it's *KNOWN TO BE TRUSTED!!!111!11!1!one*


----------



## MunneY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *FreeElectron*
> 
> It's a *TRUSTED* source. I mean look at itz namez!
> Come on..
> Even wccfetch? i mean it's *KNOWN TO BE TRUSTED!!!111!11!1!one*


----------



## nyxagamemnon

They will put out a 28Nm 780ti-Titan black like 2800-3K Core Maxwell. When? Soon as AMD launches 390X that beats the 980 the Hammer will drop. Expect to see it Q1-Q2 2015


----------



## Blue Screen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyxagamemnon*
> 
> They will put out a 28Nm 780ti-Titan black like 2800-3K Core Maxwell. When? Soon as AMD launches 390X that beats the 980 the Hammer will drop. Expect to see it Q1-Q2 2015


Assuming it doesn't cost twice the price


----------



## nyxagamemnon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blue Screen*
> 
> Assuming it doesn't cost twice the price


Probably will cost 50-100% more.

Id guess $750-1000 just like before.


----------



## Blue Screen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nyxagamemnon*
> 
> Probably will cost 50-100% more.
> 
> Id guess $750-1000 just like before.


When I saw the possibility of 8GB 980 series cards I was somewhat glad I did not purchase two of them.


----------



## hwoverclkd

news in the financial area confirms the same: http://blogs.barrons.com/asiastocks/2014/10/16/tsmc-16nm-schedule-not-in-time-for-next-iphone-analysts-cautious/?mod=yahoobarrons&ru=yahoo

it'll be a while before we see the real deal, so time to pick-up bargain gpu this holiday season


----------



## i7monkey

The 390X will handidly beat the 980, and Nvidia isn't going to sit out an entire year twiddling their thumbs.


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *acupalypse*
> 
> news in the financial area confirms the same: http://blogs.barrons.com/asiastocks/2014/10/16/tsmc-16nm-schedule-not-in-time-for-next-iphone-analysts-cautious/?mod=yahoobarrons&ru=yahoo
> 
> it'll be a while before we see the real deal, so time to pick-up bargain gpu this holiday season


GM200 will be on 28nm. Taped out months ago.

Pascal on the other hand...


----------



## curly haired boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> GM200 will be on 28nm. Taped out months ago.
> 
> Pascal on the other hand...


really hoping we get a release date soon


----------



## Craftyman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Chargeit*
> 
> In games that support Sli.


The way I look at it is this: if it doesn't support SLI it probably wouldn't benefit from it's higher framerate, because it's probably either A. an older game without an SLI profile or B. a low impact indie game. There are very few demanding games that don't have an SLI profile today. Hell, even a single 970 will play most demanding games at >60 fps in the very worst case scenario.


----------



## rcfc89

Does anyone have any estimations on when the 990/980Ti/Titan 2 may drop? I'm ready to dive into 4k gaming and ready to upgrade. Would really like a pair of 980Ti's.


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> Does anyone have any estimations on when the 990/980Ti/Titan 2 may drop? I'm ready to dive into 4k gaming and ready to upgrade. Would really like a pair of 980Ti's.


I dont think theres going to be a 980ti..

but imo im thinking the gtx 1080 will come around summer

titan 2 around march

gtx 990 jan

8GB GM204 end of dec?


----------



## DNMock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> Does anyone have any estimations on when the 990/980Ti/Titan 2 may drop? I'm ready to dive into 4k gaming and ready to upgrade. Would really like a pair of 980Ti's.


If you wanna pull the trigger now, you could always go 3 way crossfire on some 8gb 290x cards.

That set up should be able to push 60+ fps at 4k max settings for quite a while to come.


----------



## iSlayer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DNMock*
> 
> If you wanna pull the trigger now, you could always go 3 way crossfire on some 8gb 290x cards.
> 
> That set up should be able to push 60+ fps at 4k max settings for quite a while to come.


You're at the mercy of CF scaling and even then 4GB is plenty.

The power usage isn't a plus either. Neither is the mass amounts of heat. How much would water cooling for 3 290xs even cost?


----------



## MapRef41N93W

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iSlayer*
> 
> You're at the mercy of CF scaling and even then 4GB is plenty.
> 
> The power usage isn't a plus either. Neither is the mass amounts of heat. How much would water cooling for 3 290xs even cost?


If buying new and doing a loop without a CPU block, about $700-$800ish bucks. That's for 3 blocks and backplates, the thing EK sells that lets you only connect one inlet for the 3 GPUs (forget what it's called), 2x 360/480 rads, pump/res, fittings, and tubing. Say you already have everything but the blocks and backplates, that alone is $450-$500 new depending on which blocks you buy (full cover assumed).


----------



## iSlayer

Hay Seuss that's a lot of money.

Perhaps with Pascal/Fiji's successor I'll go double GPU and take advantage of being on x79. Hopefully I won't need to put them on water.


----------



## rcfc89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DNMock*
> 
> If you wanna pull the trigger now, you could always go 3 way crossfire on some 8gb 290x cards.
> 
> That set up should be able to push 60+ fps at 4k max settings for quite a while to come.


Unfortunately on my current MB I only have two 16x lanes available. I'd prefer to not go past 2 gpu's anyways. Seems to be the sweet spot currently with close to 100% scaling. I've always preferred Nvidia gpu's but it seems the new 390x is suppose to be a beast as well. The advantage there is if they later released a 395x I could sell one of the 390x and have tr-fire. Never understood why Nvidia never did this.


----------



## iCrap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> Unfortunately on my current MB I only have two 16x lanes available. I'd prefer to not go past 2 gpu's anyways. Seems to be the sweet spot currently with close to 100% scaling. I've always preferred Nvidia gpu's but it seems the new 390x is suppose to be a beast as well. The advantage there is if they later released a 395x I could sell one of the 390x and have tr-fire. Never understood why Nvidia never did this.


Yea, I don't get it either.

My plan is to also buy two 390x cards.


----------



## iamhollywood5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iCrap*
> 
> Yea, I don't get it either.
> 
> My plan is to also buy two 390x cards.


You have plans to buy a couple of cards you know absolutely nothing about?


----------



## iCrap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iamhollywood5*
> 
> You have plans to buy a couple of cards you know absolutely nothing about?


Ok, let me rephrase.
My plan is to buy 2 of the next flagship single GPU card.


----------



## Blue Screen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iCrap*
> 
> Ok, let me rephrase.
> My plan is to buy 2 of the next flagship single GPU card.


I am eager to see AMD's will bring to the table. Nvidia has already given people a taste of Maxwell. I am just personally not a fan of only having one option to choose from.


----------



## iCrap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blue Screen*
> 
> I am eager to see AMD's will bring to the table. Nvidia has already given people a taste of Maxwell. I am just personally not a fan of only having one option to choose from.


Same. But a big thing for me is that Nvidia does not support multiple resolution surround.
i want to run 2x 16:9 for the sides and 21:9 for the center.


----------



## soulwrath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iamhollywood5*
> 
> You have plans to buy a couple of cards you know absolutely nothing about?


Hesnot saying he does not know the cards, he is saying I dont get it either to why NVIDIA does not do what ATI does by allowing a 295x2 & 290x to CFX


----------



## DNMock

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> Unfortunately on my current MB I only have two 16x lanes available. I'd prefer to not go past 2 gpu's anyways. Seems to be the sweet spot currently with close to 100% scaling. I've always preferred Nvidia gpu's but it seems the new 390x is suppose to be a beast as well. The advantage there is if they later released a 395x I could sell one of the 390x and have tr-fire. Never understood why Nvidia never did this.


May be mistaken here, but wasn't the GTX 690 like that? Two GTX 680 cores on a single PCB. I never had one of them so I'm not sure if it's the same or not.


----------



## Blue Screen

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iCrap*
> 
> Same. But a big thing for me is that Nvidia does not support multiple resolution surround.
> i want to run 2x 16:9 for the sides and 21:9 for the center.


It's funny you mention this, it's what I most dislike. Ruins the fun of a multi monitor setup for gaming if you don't have 3 of the same model.


----------



## r0l4n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iCrap*
> 
> Same. But a big thing for me is that Nvidia does not support multiple resolution surround.
> i want to run 2x 16:9 for the sides and 21:9 for the center.


Does AMD support PLP (Portrait Landscapte Portrait) Eyefinity?


----------



## iCrap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blue Screen*
> 
> It's funny you mention this, it's what I most dislike. Ruins the fun of a multi monitor setup for gaming if you don't have 3 of the same model.


I think it'll be good with an Ultrawide though. I would agree, it's not good if you were using like 4:3 monitors and a 16:9 in the middle... or 16:9 of different sizes.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0l4n*
> 
> Does AMD support PLP (Portrait Landscapte Portrait) Eyefinity?


Yeah it does


----------



## r0l4n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iCrap*
> 
> Yeah it does


Since what driver version? Which GPUs are supported? It wasn't supported a year ago.


----------



## iCrap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0l4n*
> 
> Since what driver version? Which GPUs are supported? It wasn't supported a year ago.


Sometime this year. My 290 has been able to do it for a few months


----------



## r0l4n

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iCrap*
> 
> Sometime this year. My 290 has been able to do it for a few months


So after installing my old 7850 back to test it, I can confirm PLP is *not* supported, mixed resolutions and alignments are.

Confirmed in this thread as well:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1498367/guru3d-amd-eyefinity-3-panel-mixed-resolution-review/0_50


----------



## iCrap

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r0l4n*
> 
> So after installing my old 7850 back to test it, I can confirm PLP is *not* supported, mixed resolutions and alignments are.
> 
> Confirmed in this thread as well:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1498367/guru3d-amd-eyefinity-3-panel-mixed-resolution-review/0_50


sorry yea i confused plp with mixed res :/


----------



## Asus11

I can predict that the gtx 980s prices will drop 10-15% which will then lead to a gtx 990, at the same time gtx 980 8gb versions will be released

for example gtx 980s £300-350 gtx 990 £899 gtx 980 8gb £499


----------



## CasualCat

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> I can predict that the gtx 980s prices will drop 10-15% which will then lead to a gtx 990, at the same time gtx 980 8gb versions will be released
> 
> for example gtx 980s £300-350 gtx 990 £899 gtx 980 8gb £499


10% -15% off MSRP or off the going rate? I think if they were actually available at 15% off the $549 MSRP that'd be decent, but many are going for quite a bit above MSRP. Are people really paying $600+ for 980s?


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CasualCat*
> 
> 10% -15% off MSRP or off the going rate? I think if they were actually available at 15% of the $549 MSRP that'd be decent, but many are going for quite a bit above MSRP. Are people really paying $600+ for 980s?


for example the 980 classified is £580 here.. which is $912 lol

the standard price for a normal 980 is around £420 $660

which I think will drop to around the £350 mark to make room for the 990 unless nvidia want to charge over 1k for the 990

then it leaves the gtx 980 8gb for around £499


----------



## nSone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> I can predict that the gtx 980s prices will drop 10-15% which will then lead to a gtx 990, at the same time gtx 980 8gb versions will be released
> 
> for example gtx 980s £300-350 gtx 990 £899 gtx 980 8gb £499


they did start the MRSP aggressively on this series, retail price aside I also expect this policy for the next card on the same 28nm process

980 has a silly price that can be justified only if seen as the price for the top card on the market, once r9 3xx and gtx9xx/ti come out that will change all equatations

* sent from the guy crossing fingers for a 700$ 980ti







way out? hope not


----------



## curly haired boy

i just hope they hurry up with release. 980s choking on DAI on regular 1080p is alarming.


----------



## istudy92

My 970 SLI is itching for an upgrade.
Get me a classy sli 980ti woah woahh chucka chucka chucka woah waohhhh


----------



## nSone

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *curly haired boy*
> 
> i just hope they hurry up with release. 980s choking on DAI on regular 1080p is alarming.


personally I care a lot more about compute power than gaming performance, but hey more vram and wider memory bus would make us all happy right?


----------



## curly haired boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nSone*
> 
> personally I care a lot more about compute power than gaming performance, but hey more vram and wider memory bus would make us all happy right?


exactly. i want a 8 gigs minimum, 50% better performance at minimum....


----------



## nSone

was just looking at CES 2015 event
although it's not the most obvious option it would be sweet if they make the announcement there. It's Vegas of all places so evetything is possible


----------



## Eduardv

Too much processing power in your hands guys, maybe the CIA will knock in your door ^^


----------



## nSone

oh well, thought this was a safe area but nowadays...


----------



## FreeElectron

so
Any updates or dates?


----------



## Ghoxt

There's a reason this was in rumors...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Asus11*
> 
> cant see it being priced lower than a titan z is at this point and we all know the titan z will be better for rendering


Can 6 Titan Z GPU's in a rig fit under 15Amps at the wall which is my circuit breaker limit in my computer room. I've settled for (7) Strix 970's as oddly enough the power efficiency by only using one 8 pin each keeps me under my power target. I was surprised how these Maxwell cores perform.


----------



## miyaspark

I'm hoping for GTX 980 Ti. Screw GTX 990.


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miyaspark*
> 
> I'm hoping for GTX 980 Ti. Screw GTX 990.


That's exactly what I want as well.


----------



## Sheyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *miyaspark*
> 
> I'm hoping for GTX 980 Ti. Screw GTX 990.


Same, I don't do dual GPU cards anymore.


----------



## rcfc89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sheyster*
> 
> Same, I don't do dual GPU cards anymore.


My gtx690 has been a fantastic card. No issues and great performance for almost 3 years now. Unfortunately its starting to show its age with only 2gb of vram in demanding high resolution newer titles. I'm hoping to go with a pair of 980Ti's this time around if they ever get around to releasing them.


----------



## krel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sheyster*
> 
> Same, I don't do dual GPU cards anymore.


I have the space for three 980ti's (or whatever) and zero reason to use a *90 series card. Hurry up AMD so Nvidia will stop stalling...


----------



## rcfc89

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krel*
> 
> I have the space for three 980ti's (or whatever) and zero reason to use a *90 series card. Hurry up AMD so Nvidia will stop stalling...


14 months and counting for Amd. Is anyone really surprised by this?


----------



## ep45-ds3l

Want something better than 980 SLI for 4K gaming.. I actually tried 3 way SLI with reference 970's (with reference 980 cooler) and was fairly disappointed in performance vs 980 SLI.. I'll take two 990's please.


----------



## MerkageTurk

Not worth buying nVidia again,

7970 still keeps up with 780/ti

AMD is future proof, sorry to say as I am/was an nVidia customer.


----------



## Inglewood78

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> Not worth buying nVidia again,
> 
> 7970 still keeps up with 780/ti
> 
> AMD is future proof, sorry to say as I am/was an nVidia customer.


define "keeping up"


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Inglewood78*
> 
> define "keeping up"


7970 Ghz is shown in games to now match a gtx 780 in fps


----------



## Sheyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *rcfc89*
> 
> My gtx690 has been a fantastic card. No issues and great performance for almost 3 years now. Unfortunately its starting to show its age with only 2gb of vram in demanding high resolution newer titles. I'm hoping to go with a pair of 980Ti's this time around if they ever get around to releasing them.


I've heard they're great cards. My last dual GPU card was a 5990, and that experience kinda turned me off to dual GPU cards in general.


----------



## Sheyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> 7970 still keeps up with 780/ti


Link/proof?


----------



## Jedi Mind Trick

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sheyster*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> 7970 still keeps up with 780/ti
> 
> 
> 
> Link/proof?
Click to expand...

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SoloCamo*
> 
> http://www.techspot.com/review/925-the-crew-benchmarks/page3.html
> 
> 
> 
> Meh, and the cpu benches are useless, it's clearly all within margin of error though the 9590 is showing higher fps over the i5's
> 
> Also, seriously Nvidia why is the 780ti suddenly the red headed step child? No reason a 970 should be whooping on it like that, let alone a regular 290
> 
> 1080p isn't very telling unfortunately due to the 60fps cap


Kinda funny to see it catching up at higher settings. Other new (like brand new) games have similar performance, people think NV is purposely gimping Kepler cards (too lazy to show/find other benchmarks).


----------



## Sheyster

Stock speeds mean nothing, show me overclocked benchmarks please.

That 780/780 Ti bench would be MUCH higher with a decent OC, most cards can OC to 1200+ MHz. The 7970 GHz already has a fair OC applied. Just sayin'...


----------



## MerkageTurk

Well one is old the other "new"

Sorry nVidia but not worth my investment


----------



## Asus11

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sheyster*
> 
> Stock speeds mean nothing, show me overclocked benchmarks please.
> 
> That 780/780 Ti bench would be MUCH higher with a decent OC, most cards can OC to 1200+ MHz. The 7970 GHz already has a fair OC applied. Just sayin'...


the 7970 ghz is old as hell though it shouldn't even be near a GK110

either AMD is ftw or Nvidia are doing something.

I just hope we don't see cheap cards from Nvidia again it just wreaks havoc


----------



## Archngamin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> Well one is old the other "new"
> 
> Sorry nVidia but not worth my investment


I think you mean newer, not new. Plus you are comparing a bone stock card to a hefty factory OC. Might as well be comparing it to the 780 Classified if you were trying to compare apple to apples.

How many benchmarks did you pass over before you found one with 1 FPS difference? A quick Google search shows benches littered with the 780 beating out 7970 ghz by a healthy margin. I guess if you were only going to play The Crew you would be correct but most people play more than The Crew.


----------



## MerkageTurk

My point is newer games are starting to dissolve the distinction between kepler and gcn

an old gen card on par with a 780ti, smoking weed or something; not worth the investment,


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sheyster*
> 
> I've heard they're great cards. My last dual GPU card was a 5990, and that experience kinda turned me off to dual GPU cards in general.


You mean 5970


----------



## Sheyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> You mean 5970


Yep, my bad! Very forgettable card obviously...









I feel silly not remembering the correct model number when all I had to do was check my Trader Ratings to see the listing for it here on OCN.


----------



## DrBrogbo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> My point is newer games are starting to dissolve the distinction between kepler and gcn
> 
> an old gen card on par with a 780ti, smoking weed or something; not worth the investment,


What!? The first post you quoted said that 7970 kept up with 780 ti, and in that image you posted, the 780 ti beats the 7970 *GHz* by almost 20%.

Secondly, that benchmark is incredibly suspect. The 780 ti is drastically underperforming there. The 290 should NOT be beating it by 10%, and the 980 (as much as I love mine) should NOT be beating it by 33%.


----------



## MerkageTurk

Hey I did not post any image in this thread.

Secondly, we are talking about an 7970 which is doing quite well considering the age.

Thirdly, my point is when the ti released nVidia showcased how amazing it was etc but now it gets beaten by the red team and also the 970.


----------



## electro2u

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> Thirdly, my point is when the ti released nVidia showcased how amazing it was etc but now it gets beaten by the red team and also the 970.


Red team doesn't have any single GPU that actually beats the Ti.


----------



## DrBrogbo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> Hey I did not post any image in this thread.
> 
> Secondly, we are talking about an 7970 which is doing quite well considering the age.
> 
> Thirdly, my point is when the ti released nVidia showcased how amazing it was etc but now it gets beaten by the red team and also the 970.


Fine, if you're going to be pedantic, then the image you deliberately found and quoted in response to another quote.

Also, in case you missed my point, it's that the 290 should NOT be beating the 780 ti. The ti should be within a frame or two of the 290x (often ahead of it). Therefore, it's far more likely that the Nvidia drivers are not optimized for the game yet. You can cherry-pick benchmarks all day long, but it doesn't change the fact that the image you quoted is an aberration instead of the norm.

Besides, the 290x came out within 2 weeks of the 780 ti anyway, so it's hardly saying anything to make a big deal out of the 290x being ahead.


----------



## MerkageTurk

I did not quote an image?

A 7970 keeping up with a ti or 780, is what makes me sad, ti for me was not a good investment.

Sorry.


----------



## DrBrogbo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MerkageTurk*
> 
> I did not quote an image?
> 
> A 7970 keeping up with a ti or 780, is what makes me sad, ti for me was not a good investment.
> 
> Sorry.


Gah, whoops. Sorry, I got you mixed up with the guy that quoted the Crew benchmark post.









I'd personally take a ti over a 7970 or any of the 290s any day of the week, but to each their own.


----------



## GrimDoctor

Either way I'm going to start saving now


----------



## i7monkey

Someone hurry up and release GM200/390X so I can waste some money.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Someone hurry up and release GM200/390X so I can waste some money.


yes please!


----------



## miyaspark

I've always favored Nvidia and haven't tried ATI but I love competition because it lets everyone win. However coming out with updates throughout the year instead of leaving a window of roughly 9-12 months for new cards to breathe can be a bit bewildering. So fan girls/boys hush and appreciate what we have and where we've come from.


----------



## Sheyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DrBrogbo*
> 
> I'd personally take a ti over a 7970 or any of the 290s any day of the week, but to each their own.


Same here, I'm still loving my Ti @ 1254 Mhz, and it never goes over 70 deg. C while playing BF4 with that massive cooler (Palit Jetstream).


----------



## SlackerITGuy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Someone hurry up and release GM200/390X so I can waste some money.


This hahahaha.


----------



## Sheyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *i7monkey*
> 
> Someone hurry up and release GM200/390X so I can waste some money.


LOL.









GM200 is pretty much an automatic upgrade for me. I really wanna upgrade to a 32" 1440P monitor (probably the new Crossover model - supposed to support true 120 Hz refresh), but I don't see the need until I have a better video card to drive that sucker properly.


----------



## Cybertox

l am going to see what AMD will be able to offer before deciding which to get, an R9 390X or a GTX 990.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Sheyster*
> 
> LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GM200 is pretty much an automatic upgrade for me. I really wanna upgrade to a *32" 1440P monitor (probably the new Crossover model - supposed to support true 120 Hz refresh),* but I don't see the need until I have a better video card to drive that sucker properly.


What?
Where?
Any info?


----------



## nleksan

The single input (Dual-Link DVI-D only) "Korean IPS" displays have been overclockable to 96-120hz for years.
TThe problem is, aside from their being lower grade panels, even the ones that truly do OC (meaning no frame skipping), you are still limited by the inherent limitations of CURRENT IPS (/PLS) tech at the affordable level. Just because you are getting 120 separate frames per second, doesn't mean that it is beneficial. Due to theway IPS ( and PLS, which is nothing more than Samsung renaming the tech, really) works the individual pixel transition time hits a wall, and the result is that your monitor is iincapable of fully displaying some of the color transitions, so some will take 2 or more frames. The result is blurring, which kinda defeats the point of high refresh rates, but it isa "ddifferent" kind of blur that is more akin to "smearing".
This is going to be the case regardless of what "brand" of Korean display.

The IGZO IPS panels, due to some fancy schmancy technology, however, don't suffer from the same "wall" for pixel transition timing as traditional IPS panels. They are fully capable of providing us with true IPS displays with true 120/144hz (and even higher, potentially much higher) refresh rates.

The downside?
IGZO panels are extraordinarily expensive, as the tech is expensive not only because it's new but because of what's required to implement it. However, it IS quite possible thatwe wwill see IGZO drop to the price bracket that top quality prosumer IPS panels used to occupy (S-IPS/AH-IPS/P-IPS), a la the Ultrasharp line and HP's Z-series/Viewsonic/Samsung PLS/Etc, at around $700-1200, instead of the $2.5-5K they currently demand. I don't expect this for a while, and I would absolutelynot hold off bbuying a new panel in wait for IGZO to trickle down.

That said, I would not recommend the Korean IPS monitors either. I have (and have had) a LOT of displays, and have owned every variant of IPS, as well as every variant of VA, panel tech there is, aalong with the ubiquitous and eminently mediocre TN panels, mostly in PC monitors but also in TV's (which further includes DLP, Rear Projection, and Plasma; I have had multiple projectors as well, currently a beautiful Christie "true" 4K 4096p true 10bit w hardwaresRGB emulation, wwhich is a sight to see whether on the 110" eggshell, the 180" Matte white, or the 210" light grey screen).
VA panels are nice, and I consider them the "plasma for PC" due to the POTENTIALLY excellent contrast ratio courtesy of the deep inky blacks. The Eizo Foris is the most "game-centric" of these, but my good friend has had 9 and every one has had issues. Believe it or not the absolute best VA monitor I've had, and which I still have (boughtat Micro Center in 2005-6) is my Viewsonic VA2012wb, one of the rare few that have an AU Optronics MVA paneliinstead ofTN.

My rrecommendation would be a quality AH-IPS display, and you can get a name brand 1440p version for as little as $350 if you shop smart.

The BEST monitors you can buy right now, in my experience and opinion, are the LG 34UM97/34UC97. 3440x1440p 34" 21;9 and stunning!

Good luck!


----------



## 0utf0xZer0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> The single input (Dual-Link DVI-D only) "Korean IPS" displays have been overclockable to 96-120hz for years.
> TThe problem is, aside from their being lower grade panels, even the ones that truly do OC (meaning no frame skipping), you are still limited by the inherent limitations of CURRENT IPS (/PLS) tech at the affordable level. Just because you are getting 120 separate frames per second, doesn't mean that it is beneficial. Due to theway IPS ( and PLS, which is nothing more than Samsung renaming the tech, really) works the individual pixel transition time hits a wall, and the result is that your monitor is iincapable of fully displaying some of the color transitions, so some will take 2 or more frames. The result is blurring, which kinda defeats the point of high refresh rates, but it isa "ddifferent" kind of blur that is more akin to "smearing".
> This is going to be the case regardless of what "brand" of Korean display.


The 32 inch Crossover isn't an IPS, their website lists it as an A-MVA panel:
http://www.crosslcd.co.kr/main.html?tmp=product&pg=32X2-P
The 120hz is intriguing but it's about $600 on ebay, which means you can get a brand name 60hz 32 inch VA monitor for similar money.


----------



## FreeElectron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> The single input (Dual-Link DVI-D only) "Korean IPS" displays have been overclockable to 96-120hz for years.
> TThe problem is, aside from their being lower grade panels, even the ones that truly do OC (meaning no frame skipping), you are still limited by the inherent limitations of CURRENT IPS (/PLS) tech at the affordable level. Just because you are getting 120 separate frames per second, doesn't mean that it is beneficial. Due to theway IPS ( and PLS, which is nothing more than Samsung renaming the tech, really) works the individual pixel transition time hits a wall, and the result is that your monitor is iincapable of fully displaying some of the color transitions, so some will take 2 or more frames. The result is blurring, which kinda defeats the point of high refresh rates, but it isa "ddifferent" kind of blur that is more akin to "smearing".
> This is going to be the case regardless of what "brand" of Korean display.
> 
> The IGZO IPS panels, due to some fancy schmancy technology, however, don't suffer from the same "wall" for pixel transition timing as traditional IPS panels. They are fully capable of providing us with true IPS displays with true 120/144hz (and even higher, potentially much higher) refresh rates.
> 
> The downside?
> IGZO panels are extraordinarily expensive, as the tech is expensive not only because it's new but because of what's required to implement it. However, it IS quite possible thatwe wwill see IGZO drop to the price bracket that top quality prosumer IPS panels used to occupy (S-IPS/AH-IPS/P-IPS), a la the Ultrasharp line and HP's Z-series/Viewsonic/Samsung PLS/Etc, at around $700-1200, instead of the $2.5-5K they currently demand. I don't expect this for a while, and I would absolutelynot hold off bbuying a new panel in wait for IGZO to trickle down.
> 
> That said, I would not recommend the Korean IPS monitors either. I have (and have had) a LOT of displays, and have owned every variant of IPS, as well as every variant of VA, panel tech there is, aalong with the ubiquitous and eminently mediocre TN panels, mostly in PC monitors but also in TV's (which further includes DLP, Rear Projection, and Plasma; I have had multiple projectors as well, currently a beautiful Christie "true" 4K 4096p true 10bit w hardwaresRGB emulation, wwhich is a sight to see whether on the 110" eggshell, the 180" Matte white, or the 210" light grey screen).
> VA panels are nice, and I consider them the "plasma for PC" due to the POTENTIALLY excellent contrast ratio courtesy of the deep inky blacks. The Eizo Foris is the most "game-centric" of these, but my good friend has had 9 and every one has had issues. Believe it or not the absolute best VA monitor I've had, and which I still have (boughtat Micro Center in 2005-6) is my Viewsonic VA2012wb, one of the rare few that have an AU Optronics MVA paneliinstead ofTN.
> 
> My rrecommendation would be a quality AH-IPS display, and you can get a name brand 1440p version for as little as $350 if you shop smart.
> 
> The BEST monitors you can buy right now, in my experience and opinion, are the LG 34UM97/34UC97. 3440x1440p 34" 21;9 and stunning!
> 
> Good luck!


I have read about that here blurbusters.com - 120Hz 1440p IPS Overclockable Monitors.
Does those LG monitors support anti blurring techniques (like ULMB) and how much is there vertical refresh rate?


----------



## Sheyster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nleksan*
> 
> The single input (Dual-Link DVI-D only) "Korean IPS" displays have been overclockable to 96-120hz for years.
> TThe problem is, aside from their being lower grade panels, even the ones that truly do OC (meaning no frame skipping), you are still limited by the inherent limitations of CURRENT IPS (/PLS) tech at the affordable level. Just because you are getting 120 separate frames per second, doesn't mean that it is beneficial. Due to theway IPS ( and PLS, which is nothing more than Samsung renaming the tech, really) works the individual pixel transition time hits a wall, and the result is that your monitor is iincapable of fully displaying some of the color transitions, so some will take 2 or more frames. The result is blurring, which kinda defeats the point of high refresh rates, but it isa "ddifferent" kind of blur that is more akin to "smearing".
> This is going to be the case regardless of what "brand" of Korean display.
> 
> The IGZO IPS panels, due to some fancy schmancy technology, however, don't suffer from the same "wall" for pixel transition timing as traditional IPS panels. They are fully capable of providing us with true IPS displays with true 120/144hz (and even higher, potentially much higher) refresh rates.
> 
> The downside?
> IGZO panels are extraordinarily expensive, as the tech is expensive not only because it's new but because of what's required to implement it. However, it IS quite possible thatwe wwill see IGZO drop to the price bracket that top quality prosumer IPS panels used to occupy (S-IPS/AH-IPS/P-IPS), a la the Ultrasharp line and HP's Z-series/Viewsonic/Samsung PLS/Etc, at around $700-1200, instead of the $2.5-5K they currently demand. I don't expect this for a while, and I would absolutelynot hold off bbuying a new panel in wait for IGZO to trickle down.
> 
> That said, I would not recommend the Korean IPS monitors either. I have (and have had) a LOT of displays, and have owned every variant of IPS, as well as every variant of VA, panel tech there is, aalong with the ubiquitous and eminently mediocre TN panels, mostly in PC monitors but also in TV's (which further includes DLP, Rear Projection, and Plasma; I have had multiple projectors as well, currently a beautiful Christie "true" 4K 4096p true 10bit w hardwaresRGB emulation, wwhich is a sight to see whether on the 110" eggshell, the 180" Matte white, or the 210" light grey screen).
> VA panels are nice, and I consider them the "plasma for PC" due to the POTENTIALLY excellent contrast ratio courtesy of the deep inky blacks. The Eizo Foris is the most "game-centric" of these, but my good friend has had 9 and every one has had issues. Believe it or not the absolute best VA monitor I've had, and which I still have (boughtat Micro Center in 2005-6) is my Viewsonic VA2012wb, one of the rare few that have an AU Optronics MVA paneliinstead ofTN.
> 
> My rrecommendation would be a quality AH-IPS display, and you can get a name brand 1440p version for as little as $350 if you shop smart.
> 
> The BEST monitors you can buy right now, in my experience and opinion, are the LG 34UM97/34UC97. 3440x1440p 34" 21;9 and stunning!
> 
> Good luck!


Some good info here, most of which I knew but some I did not.









The reason I'm interested in the 32" Crossover is because it is a 32", not a 27". I decided to pass up the 27" 1440P Korean IPS monitors and get the ASUS 144 Hz I have instead. I've been pretty happy with it for almost 2 years. Now I find myself really wanting a bigger monitor, and a 32" 1440P seems to fit the bill. 1 video card should be able to drive it just fine, especially once the Next Gen Maxwell card is released. Additionally, these new VA panels are supposed to have much better pixel response than the previous iterations. That being said, I am hoping someone will pick one up and test it as I don't really want to be the beta tester/guinea pig.







It seems Crossover is claiming 120 Hz support on their site, but it's entirely possible that the monitor skips frames at that refresh rate. To be honest, I don't really trust them.


----------

