# [GIZ] Microsoft Surface Just Made the MacBook Air and the iPad Look Obsolete



## CrazyNikel

Buying one when its out, cant wait. I love the design of the surface, brilliant IMO.


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## Penicilyn

Sorry but I see this being the next Zune or WP7. Microsoft just cant seem to market hardware properly.


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## xHighAlert

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Penicilyn*
> 
> Sorry but I see this being the next Zune or WP7. Microsoft just cant seem to market hardware properly.


You are looking at it horribly wrong, then.
WP7/Zune are toys, mobile devices.
This is a mobile device with ZERO compromises.


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## G3RG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Penicilyn*
> 
> Sorry but I see this being the next Zune or WP7. Microsoft just cant seem to market hardware properly.


The iPad is more of a toy than the surface is


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## Eagle1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Penicilyn*
> 
> Sorry but I see this being the next Zune or WP7. Microsoft just cant seem to market hardware properly.


^ This sadly.


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## Penicilyn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *G3RG*
> 
> The iPad is more of a toy than the surface is


it's a toy that makes up more than half of all tablets on the market and because of that people are actually making enterprise software for it. I've been in a few businesses where the only mobile devices you can use on their WiFi are iPhones/iPads and Playbooks because they were the only things IT could lock down.

WP7 wasn't supposed to be a toy at all, it replaced Windows Mobile which was obviously geared towards business.


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## [Adz]

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Penicilyn*
> 
> Sorry but I see this being the next Zune or WP7. Microsoft just cant seem to market hardware properly.


*cough*Xbox*cough*


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## cavallino

I think people are getting a little over excited. We don't even know pricing yet. There is plenty of time for them to screw it up.









Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2


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## G3RG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Penicilyn*
> 
> it's a toy that makes up more than half of all tablets on the market and because of that people are actually making enterprise software for it. I've been in a few businesses where the only mobile devices you can use on their WiFi are iPhones/iPads and Playbooks because they were the only things IT could lock down.
> WP7 wasn't supposed to be a toy at all, it replaced Windows Mobile which was obviously geared towards business.


Yes ofc, the iPad is in some ways better than most of the tablets out there currently, but the Surface DOES make the iPad look like a toy... mostly because it really is compared to what the Surface can do.


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## UltraVolta425

Wow, that's neat!


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## slaney30

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Penicilyn*
> 
> it's a toy that makes up more than half of all tablets on the market and because of that people are actually making enterprise software for it. I've been in a few businesses where the only mobile devices you can use on their WiFi are iPhones/iPads and Playbooks because they were the only things IT could lock down.
> WP7 wasn't supposed to be a toy at all, it replaced Windows Mobile which was obviously geared towards business.


You see a lot of people using Ipads because of the Wow factor and the fact it was the first really popular tablet because hey it looks cool and was made right. Naturally a lot of them are in use in corporate environments. I can tell you this though, even with aftermarket software the ability to lock them down is not all that great.

I can tell you in our corporate environment, a windows platform tablet is way easier for us to manage without having to buy a ton of extra software. Even getting the device on WIFI is way easier.

With Ipads you are basically required to get aftermarket software to manage the device in a corporate environment. With a windows tablet you should be able to use existing infastructure.


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## allan871

There are rumors from a Chinese website that state prices will be 599 for rt and 799 for pro.. Just take that for a grain of salt..

Actually if pro is priced at 799, I am in for one.


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## Newbie2009

mmm, so what is it? A Windows 8 Asus transformer?


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## 179232

I'm happy if the RT version is $600 on release. Hell, I'll buy two of them if they come out before October.


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## wevsspot

Looks like it could be a game changer. For as many failures that Microsoft has had in the hardware realm throughout it's history, they have also managed to put out some darn good hardware too. The Surface looks like it may be the latter instead of the former and I'm really rooting for them.

Something better than an iPad and a competent alternative to those of us that refuse to buy into the Apple fanboyism. I'm excited.


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## razorguy

I'm pretty excited to get my hands on the Surface (or any W8 tablet for that matter) to see how it feels. I may finally get rid of my Vista laptop if I like it enough









Still curious to see what Dell, HP, etc think of Microsoft outing their own hardware like this. If it's priced competitively then I would imagine great things are coming our way in terms of hardware and pricing from all the big companies. Can't wait!


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## She loved E

will be ruined by win8 interface. *ducks*


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## Hotcarl

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Penicilyn*
> 
> Sorry but I see this being the next Zune or WP7. Microsoft just cant seem to market hardware properly.


My thoughts as well, zune was a very good device and once they got some win7 phones then dropped zune like a stepchild


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## Jimbo2032

Wow, that thing looks awesome.

I also like their marketing for it, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpzu3HM2CIo.

That commercial felt more targeted a me than anything Apple has ever come up with...


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## ALiShaikh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *She loved E*
> 
> will be ruined by win8 interface. *ducks*


You want the touchscreen tablet with the windows 8 interface? Why not go back to Windows 98 interface it was good enough too right? Why change it?


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## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *She loved E*
> 
> will be ruined by win8 interface. *ducks*


metro is the perfect interface for a tablet(IMO). can you explain why you think otherwise?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ALiShaikh*
> 
> You want the touchscreen tablet with the windows 8 interface? Why not go back to Windows 98 interface it was good enough too right? Why change it?












grammatical errors?


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## BenRK

Unless the pro version is $600 or less, I can't see it selling. If it's anything higher and people will just buy an iPad or heck, a notebook. The arm version won't sell regardless as it can't run windows 7 stuff. If it ran android apps, I would grab it, but we all know it won't...

There are so many different kinds of tablets out there, but we all know what happened to the ones that weren't iOS or android... Software makes the product, and the basic model of the surface has none.


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## di inferi

I still have an iPad 1st gen. I use it on a daily basis when I am not at my sig rig. It crashes at least 3 times an hour.

I've been holding off getting a replacement tablet; looks like this is the one!


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## kiwiasian

Someone please explain to me why all of you hail the product like a godsend but hate on the iPad

To me they're both the same--expensive, difficult to use, and runs a cut-down OS

I'll take it for $200 and nothing more. Unfortunately, it seems to be selling for 4x that.


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## RallyMaster

I don't see the app ecosystem suddenly coming to maturity though which is really what could kill the platform.


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## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kiwiasian*
> 
> Someone please explain to me why all of you hail the product like a godsend but hate on the iPad
> To me they're both the same--expensive, difficult to use, and runs a cut-down OS
> I'll take it for $200 and nothing more. Unfortunately, it seems to be selling for 4x that.


I'll keep it short:

I've been waiting for a decent Win tab w/ a wacom digitizer since I got my first wacom digitizer (about 10 years ago).

One of these will run a cut down OS (metro/win RT) the other will run the cut down OS(metro/win RT) and when *docked* will have a full desktop.

I want the second one, not the first.

I can't speak for everyone else, but it would be awesome to be able to play/use all of my win programs on this tablet. When I was first looking to build a system, this+ an external GPU would've gotten my money.


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## bengal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Penicilyn*
> 
> Sorry but I see this being the next Zune or WP7. Microsoft just cant seem to market hardware properly.


This sadly.


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## Stealth Pyros

Ouch. Nothing more pleasant than seeing the media react to your newly announced product and saying it trashes the competition.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kiwiasian*
> 
> Someone please explain to me why all of you hail the product like a godsend but hate on the iPad
> 
> To me they're both the same--expensive, difficult to use, and *runs a cut-down OS*
> 
> I'll take it for $200 and nothing more. Unfortunately, it seems to be selling for 4x that.


That's the biggest part you're missing. It's NOT a cut-down OS. It's Windows 8 just as you'd have it on any desktop/laptop.


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## kael13

I'll probably buy version 2.


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## doomlord52

I think its really going to depend on specs.
What kind of CPU/RAM/GPU does it run, what's the battery life, and is the OS REALLY the same as the PC version of Windows 8.

If its got a proper Intel CPU, a few GB of RAM, something like an Intel HD 4000, about 5-6 hours of battery life, and the same version of Windows 8 as the PC, it will simply CRUSH everything. Think about it. Its a tablet that runs desktop-WINDOWS. No need to get random apps. You've got office, and all the other programs people love to use. No more fumbling with the (honestly) terrible mobile OS' (really, IOS, Android, WP7, etc are all awful compared to desktop Windows 7), no more messing around TRYING to get apps that work with your desktop stuff.

However, if its running some strange, unsupported CPU, a different version of windows, etc. Its going to fail. There will be no reason to get it.

tl;dr version: Cant tell if amazing or useless.


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## cbrazeau1115

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> I think its really going to depend on specs.
> What kind of CPU/RAM/GPU does it run, what's the battery life, and is the OS REALLY the same as the PC version of Windows 8.
> If its got a proper Intel CPU, a few GB of RAM, something like an Intel HD 4000, about 5-6 hours of battery life, and the same version of Windows 8 as the PC, it will simply CRUSH everything. Think about it. Its a tablet that runs desktop-WINDOWS. *No need to get random apps*. You've got office, and all the other programs people love to use. No more fumbling with the (honestly) terrible mobile OS' (really, IOS, Android, WP7, etc are all awful compared to desktop Windows 7), no more messing around TRYING to get apps that work with your desktop stuff.
> However, if its running some strange, unsupported CPU, a different version of windows, etc. Its going to fail. There will be no reason to get it.
> tl;dr version: Cant tell if amazing or useless.


This is not 100% true, as the great part about tablets and apps is the simplicity of the app interface. This allows you to move beyond the same mouse/keyboard interface and do some really unique things.


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## dioxholster

Doesnt emote practicability to me, whats so flushing about this, to me asus's transformer appeared better in form.


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## GrizzleBoy

I cant get around the keyboard basically being a mat.

Practical use may prove me wrong, but it just _looks_ wrong to me.

Would you be able to rest this thing comfortably on your legs as you would a laptop?


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## bengal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Penicilyn*
> 
> Sorry but I see this being the next Zune or WP7. Microsoft just cant seem to market hardware properly.


This sadly.


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## TheBlindDeafMute

Waiting on Balmer dancing and screaming to promote it.


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## drbaltazar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBlindDeafMute*
> 
> Waiting on Balmer dancing and screaming to promote it.


hahaha!i can picture it,steves mouth frotting the whole nine yard:YOU SHALL NOT PASS:till you buy it!


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## MarvinDessica

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kiwiasian*
> 
> Someone please explain to me why all of you hail the product like a godsend but hate on the iPad
> To me they're both the same--expensive, difficult to use, and runs a cut-down OS
> I'll take it for $200 and nothing more. Unfortunately, it seems to be selling for 4x that.


Surface is a full-on computer. You run iTunes on it and everything to sync the iPad.


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## amay200

I'd be happier if the surface Pro used a 17w Trinity part instead of Ivy. Hopefully an OEM (HP, Dell, Acer, Lenovo) realizes this and releases a trinity version of this (Like the Ultrathin/laptop hybrid shown off at computex)


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## She loved E

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> metro is the perfect interface for a tablet(IMO). can you explain why you think otherwise?


Let's see... they had to release a how-to video with some dry, confusing description of how you're supposed to use it. And even after watching it it's still confusing.

How does Apple show you how to use their stuff? They put it in your hands. Its easy. No instructions required. Not to mention they do a helluva job getting you pumped up about using iWhatevers. They don't show you the product... they show you all the cool things you can do with it. That's the difference between good marketing (not to mention R&D) and Microsoft.

Who's talking about Surface outside the tech world? Nobody. Yet my mom has an iPad.


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## apgfeb14

i dont even care what you said your avi is the best i have seen i a while lolololololololol


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## Stealth Pyros

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MarvinDessica*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *kiwiasian*
> 
> Someone please explain to me why all of you hail the product like a godsend but hate on the iPad
> To me they're both the same--expensive, difficult to use, and runs a cut-down OS
> I'll take it for $200 and nothing more. Unfortunately, it seems to be selling for 4x that.
> 
> 
> 
> Surface is a full-on computer. You run iTunes on it and everything to sync the iPad.
Click to expand...

Lol that pic is priceless... You have to connect your tablet to another "tablet" to make full use of it.


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## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *She loved E*
> 
> Let's see... they had to release a how-to video with some dry, confusing description of how you're supposed to use it. And even after watching it it's still confusing.


A how-to on how to use a un-released operating system on a tablet? Bad form microsoft, don't show you users how to use your products. Shame on you microsoft for needing a how-to in the first place








Quote:


> How does Apple show you how to use their stuff? They put it in your hands. Its easy. No instructions required. Not to mention they do a helluva job getting you pumped up about using iWhatevers.


They don't show you how to use their stuff, they tell you have you to use their stuff.

For being an operating system so simple to use, picking it up (anecdotally) I feel just as unsure and lost in their operating systems as I do any other that I pick up. There's a learning curve there, and metro will have the same (at the least, similar) learning curve as any other apple/android product.

Have you ever used WP7?
It's pretty much pick it up and go. It doesn't get much simpler.

Coming from the 2005 era, mobile operating systems have been so dumbed down that it's nearly impossible to not just be able to pick them up and go.
Quote:


> They don't show you the product... they show you all the cool things you can do with it. That's the difference between good marketing (not to mention R&D) and Microsoft.
> Who's talking about Surface outside the tech world? Nobody. Yet my mom has an iPad.


they what?









*looks at past past apple keynotes*

It sure looks like they're showing me the product and features, without actually explaining what they needed to do to get that feature to work on their product.

It has nothing to do with R&D. This is a fallacy that I'm tired of seeing, MS has invested just as much time and money (if not more) into R & D. It has everything to do with marketing. Apple has a great marketing strategy, and before the awesome displays of the (new) ipad and the MBP, they had nothing special to differentiate them from everyone else (in fact stealing features and calling them their own).

I'm glad your mom is using an iPad. I'm sure if we exchanged it for a win8 (winRT/metro) tab, she would use it just the same after the initial "system shock" of switching eco-systems.
My mom wants an android tablet to use for content consumption, But what does that have to do with anything? Our mother's don't represent the general public, niether do we.

I was asking out of curiosity, yet you respond with sarcasm?

Yeah, let me dismiss your reality and substitute my own:

(BTW, you just might want to read the article)

What I don't get, is MS is finally following a similar path that apple used to get them where they are now, but it's just not good enough







.

Personally, I wish they left well enough alone. It's too simple, but that's part of the reason why metro is perfect for a tablet.


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## jjsoviet

Let's see how Surface does. I'll most likely be able to snag that Ivy Bridge version to complement my Transformer Prime.


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## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kiwiasian*
> 
> Someone please explain to me why all of you hail the product like a godsend but hate on the iPad
> 
> To me they're both the same--expensive, difficult to use, and runs a cut-down OS
> 
> I'll take it for $200 and nothing more. Unfortunately, it seems to be selling for 4x that.


If you are unable to tell the difference between the ipad and this product, then there is no hope in attempting to even explain it to you.


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## BizzareRide

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *She loved E*
> 
> Let's see... they had to release a how-to video with some dry, confusing description of how you're supposed to use it. And even after watching it it's still confusing.
> How does Apple show you how to use their stuff? They put it in your hands. Its easy. No instructions required. Not to mention they do a helluva job getting you pumped up about using iWhatevers. They don't show you the product... they show you all the cool things you can do with it. That's the difference between good marketing (not to mention R&D) and Microsoft.
> Who's talking about Surface outside the tech world? Nobody. Yet my mom has an iPad.


Why would non-tech savvy people talk about technology that's just announced and not yet launched? That is the complete opposite of a tech savvy person.

You're comparing hardware and software. When was the last time OSX had a major change to its UI? Oh right... 10+ years ago. What's more is that you're comparing a gimped OS(iOS) to one that's complete(Windows 8)

And Uhh... Apple's entire commercial marketing revolved around them showing you how to use the iPad along with its simple applications. You will be able to use full desktop suites with Windows 8 with notebook power on demand.

Their then CEO even went on record for claiming that we were 'holding it wrong' when the iPhone 4 launched. Heck, it even has its own name and meme: antennagate.

Unless you're a simpleton, I don't see how Windows 8 is challenging to use -- you push or click giant, colored squares that's linked to a file on your hard disk. No different from clicking icons that do the same thing.

Wether you like it or not, I think Windows 8 is a big change in the UI metaphor. The UI single handidly has allowed them to bring the full desktop experience to mobile. You can't get OSX or Linux on mobile as you can with Windows 8. They're both cut down.


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## Mike395

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jimbo2032*
> 
> Wow, that thing looks awesome.
> I also like their marketing for it, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpzu3HM2CIo.
> That commercial felt more targeted a me than anything Apple has ever come up with...


I'm a little curious why. If Apple came up with an iPad commercial where they show the product from various angles along with some funky visual effects and music for over a minute, and told you nothing about the actual product, would that make you want to buy it?


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## Georgevonfrank

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *She loved E*
> 
> Let's see... they had to release a how-to video with some dry, confusing description of how you're supposed to use it. And even after watching it it's still confusing.
> How does Apple show you how to use their stuff? They put it in your hands. Its easy. No instructions required. Not to mention they do a helluva job getting you pumped up about using iWhatevers. They don't show you the product... they show you all the cool things you can do with it. That's the difference between good marketing (not to mention R&D) and Microsoft.
> *Who's talking about Surface outside the tech world? Nobody. Yet my mom has an iPad.*


My non-tech savvy friends said they saw it on the news and are interested in it. So I guess people are talking about it.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xHighAlert*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Penicilyn*
> 
> Sorry but I see this being the next Zune or WP7. Microsoft just cant seem to market hardware properly.
> 
> 
> 
> You are looking at it horribly wrong, then.
> WP7/Zune are toys, mobile devices.
> This is a mobile device with ZERO compromises.
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with marketing?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *G3RG*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Penicilyn*
> 
> Sorry but I see this being the next Zune or WP7. Microsoft just cant seem to market hardware properly.
> 
> 
> 
> The iPad is more of a toy than the surface is
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with marketing?


----------



## born2bwild

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> If you are unable to tell the difference between the ipad and this product, then there is no hope in attempting to even explain it to you.


The Surface RT is like an iPad with a much more horrible screen, similar, if not worse, specs, and similar price.
The Surface Pro is likely to be twice the price of a base iPad, and looks to compete more with ultrabooks because its specs and price is closer to that. In reality, it's an ultrabook that can't really be used on your lap but has a wacom digitalizer.

The RT will likely fail against the iPad and other tablets.
The Pro might be successful, but it will cannibalize ultrabook sales more than tablet sales, due its price and specs.

Before you ask; yes, it is undoubtedly sure that the Surface Pro will be around ~$1000 due to its Ivy processor, RAM, SSD, Full HD screen and wacom.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mike395*
> 
> I'm a little curious why. If Apple came up with an iPad commercial where they show the product from various angles along with some funky visual effects and music for over a minute, and told you nothing about the actual product, would that make you want to buy it?


like this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2LLSrlKr3c

no.


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## cavallino

I feel like the pro is kind of the tablet for people who don't like tablets.


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## ILoveHighDPI

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cbrazeau1115*
> 
> This is not 100% true, as the great part about tablets and apps is the simplicity of the app interface. This allows you to move beyond the same mouse/keyboard interface and do some really unique things.


Thus, this device will never come with Windows 7.

I think the main problem is that Laptops are actually all-in-one PCs, and aren't treated much different from a desktop other than that it doesn't take up as much seating room as two human beings in a car.
Tablets are more like toys, you use them for fun, not for business. The tablet that Bill Gates showed off ten years ago was still a business tool that you would never take with you on a stroll through the park (big, expensive, fragile, short battery life). The thing that Steve Jobs showed off was meant for that environment (small, affordable, won't blow up if you bump it wrong, and will keep working for the afternoon).
If the X86 Surface can't match the usability standards of the Ipad, then it probably will just be seen as another fancy laptop.


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## She loved E

i stand corrected. surface will be a resounding success.


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## bobuy00

It sounds like it's more of a threat to ultrabooks more than anything. I have a feeling though that the Pro would sell better than RT since eliminates the need for laptops and tablets. 128 GB is a bit small though considering it will be running a full OS :/.

Having a Trinity version would be nice too, some Radeon would really do the Pro some good.


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## cavallino

I could see the pro being popular for graphics work. A wacom 12" cintiq costs ~$1000. Here you could use it in a similar way and get the whole computer to go with it.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jimbo2032*
> 
> Wow, that thing looks awesome.
> I also like their marketing for it, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpzu3HM2CIo.
> That commercial felt more targeted a me than anything Apple has ever come up with...


that video already has 3,461,538 Views, seems to me like they have peoples attention!


----------



## andrews2547

It looks quite good actually. I don't think it will sell as well as the MacBook Air or iPad though. MS is pretty bad at marketing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Penicilyn*
> 
> Sorry but I see this being the next Zune or WP7. Microsoft just cant seem to market hardware properly.


It seems you have forgotten about the XBOX 360


----------



## ilhe4e12345

personally i have been waiting for something like this....i really want the Pro. With the keyboard dock this thing will replace my laptop and give me so many more options when it comes to mobile computing. It can be used at work, and on trips and not limit myself with just using apps and have a computer experience (again with the keyboard dock).

if the rumor price of 799 for the pro version is true, ill def be picking one of these up as soon as possible.


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## Wattser93

Looks fantastic.

My only concern is the keyboard. For it to replace a notebook, the keyboard must feel as good or better than my MacBook Pro. Being as thin as it is, I hope they don't sacrifice functionality for form.

If the keyboard is good and it can be a real notebook replacement (or the future of notebooks, depending on how you look at it), I wouldn't hesitate to pick one up.


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## cavallino

I just saw the pro is going to weigh almost 2lb and it's 13mm thick! That is a bit heavy to hold and watch a movie with for any length of time. If it needs a stand all the time for prolonged use you might as well buy an ultrabook.

For reference an Ipad 1 weighs 1.5 which feels pretty heavy compared to new tablets.


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## Juganot

So wait I am confused, so many mixed messages. Will the ARM version be able to run the full windows desktop environment?


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## PCSarge

this looks promising microsoft.....i will have to buy one...will make great use of it at work, what with our slow core2duo systems with 2GB of ram holding me back otherwise.

and LOL at ipad syncing with surface, thats priceless, now all microsoft needs to do is pruduce a laptop and call it "crust"


----------



## Dronac

The Surface looks flat out amazing. If I were in the market for a Windows based ultrabook, I don't think I would consider anything else currently on the market. I really want to see if someone can get Ubuntu running on it, especially the RT version since it only supports Metro apps. I think this is going to put a bit of pressure on Apple, which is great for me since I primarily use OS X/iOS for mobile computing. Aside from the MBP Retina, I feel like recent Apple releases have been a bit stale compared to when the iPhone and iPad were still fairly new.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cavallino*
> 
> I could see the pro being popular for graphics work. A wacom 12" cintiq costs ~$1000. Here you could use it in a similar way and get the whole computer to go with it.


Don't the Cintiqs have pressure sensitive input? Does the Surface? If so that would be pretty sweet.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Don't the Cintiqs have pressure sensitive input? Does the Surface? If so that would be pretty sweet.


Same digitizer, somewhere around 2048 lvls of pressure (could be more now).


----------



## Erio

I'm pretty sure Acer did something like this before ipad or ianything is out yet.
Edit: not claiming Acer is the first, just this is done before.


----------



## Bologna

It's going to fail. Two surface versions that are only similar in looks. Different screens, different CPUs, different apps for each. Good luck MS.


----------



## decali

Nice! I'm excited to see how this goes, and if it'll be practical for work use. I'm not sold quite yet, hopefully MS will throw some weight behind app development. Windows 8 makes sense on this, and I hope to test one out!


----------



## Intense

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Wattser93*
> 
> Looks fantastic.
> My only concern is the keyboard. For it to replace a notebook, the keyboard must feel as good or better than my MacBook Pro. Being as thin as it is, I hope they don't sacrifice functionality for form.
> If the keyboard is good and it can be a real notebook replacement (or the future of notebooks, depending on how you look at it), I wouldn't hesitate to pick one up.


IIRC there are gonna be two different types of keyboard "smart covers". One will be the flat one that IMO looks gimmicky. And the other will be a physical hardware one similar to a chiclet style keyboard found on laptops.

Ah yes found an article that talks about it, first one is called the Touch Cover, second one is called the Type Cover.

I hope this answers your concern









Source: http://news.yahoo.com/microsofts-surface-keyboard-key-005202941--finance.html


----------



## Rayleyne

I dunno I kinda like my Samsung slate


----------



## perfectblade

This wont replace tablets because arm processors are better there in terms of battery. In terms of ultrabooks, saying this is better than all ultra books is a bit lmuch as there are alot of differences in terms of screen size. I would rather have a 13 or 15" ultrabook because i want the screen space


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> This wont replace tablets because arm processors are better there in terms of battery. In terms of ultrabooks, saying this is better than all ultra books is a bit lmuch as there are alot of differences in terms of screen size. I would rather have a 13 or 15" ultrabook because i want the screen space


There isn't much processing power required for HD playback, internet browsing, word processing, media, etc. A tablet could replace a laptop for the most part. Even for light gaming purposes with Nvidia's backing.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> There isn't much processing power required for HD playback, internet browsing, word processing, media, etc. A tablet could replace a laptop for the most part. Even for light gaming purposes with Nvidia's backing.


Sure it could. But id rather have an arm than intel tab


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> Sure it could. But id rather have an arm than intel tab


I'm the opposite.


----------



## baws

More funny the device froze while presentating it. lol


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *baws*
> 
> More funny the device froze while presentating it. lol


possibly







.

I have the same thing happen to me on capacitive screens if I don't use the full pad of my finger. I get so jealous of people that can just casually "swipe" and the device reacts.


----------



## Bologna

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *baws*
> 
> More funny the device froze while presentating it. lol


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSj8GUZDuac


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> I'm the opposite.


You'd rather pay twice as much and have less battery life? Either way it's not like using a desktop interface will be practical on a touch screen, unless you really want both touch capability.

Personally, I would never take either. I'd much rather have a larger netbook. I can't handle screens smaller than 13"


----------



## aweir

It looks like an iPad with a keyboard ...which would make it a netbook.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bologna*
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSj8GUZDuac


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Calibos*


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> You'd rather pay twice as much and have less battery life? Either way it's not like using a desktop interface will be practical on a touch screen, unless you really want both touch capability.
> Personally, I would never take either. I'd much rather have a larger netbook. I can't handle screens smaller than 13"


I'd much rather use the pen with the desktop interface than the metro interface at all. We don't know about battery life and all that yet, but being larger it should have a larger batter.

And I'll take performance over battery life any day on something like this. If I'm ever portable enough to need more than 4-5 hours, I'm doing something wrong and should be enjoying my time outside







.

So yes, I'll take x86 compatibility and my cataloger of hundreds of games and applications over a few hours of battery life







.

If I was to use this for work, it would be docked %70 of the time unless I was doing some photo editing. This would be great for meetings and work in general









and the gaming aspect of it just makes it much sweeter (if the zooming still operates properly, anyways).


----------



## aweir

How much you want to bet that little stand on the back breaks after a week?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *aweir*
> 
> How much you want to bet that little stand on the back breaks after a week?


I'd give it 2, atleast.

No Telling in third though.

I was wondering about the place where the pen docks too, it looked mighty flimsy.


----------



## WaRTaco

Im a previous iPad owner, and the iPad was really just a toy. I took notes with it at school and surfed the web. That's pretty much it.







If the Surface performs well and gets good reviews I will perhaps consider buying a pro version


----------



## mvermef

Those who develop in the VS12 environment with managed code will have cross compatible applications for RT/Pro since the application is build on .NET framework it will run on either platform hardware.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/jasonz/archive/2012/06/12/what-you-need-to-know-about-developing-for-windows-on-arm-woa.aspx

At least that is the claim in that blog post.


----------



## marbleduck

I fail to see how this is better looking than a Macbook Air/Pro


----------



## ThirstyArgonian

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *slaney30*
> 
> You see a lot of people using Ipads because of the Wow factor and the fact it was the first really popular tablet because hey it looks cool and was made right. Naturally a lot of them are in use in corporate environments. I can tell you this though, even with aftermarket software the ability to lock them down is not all that great.
> I can tell you in our corporate environment, a windows platform tablet is way easier for us to manage without having to buy a ton of extra software. Even getting the device on WIFI is way easier.
> With Ipads you are basically required to get aftermarket software to manage the device in a corporate environment. With a windows tablet you should be able to use existing infastructure.


This.

iPads and Apple products in general are a pain in the environment I work in. Which sounds very similar to yours. No local user accounts, 1 iTunes account per device in corporate environment, limited network access through our proxy, no access to any network shares/printers etc. etc. poor ways of managing them (lack of policies, AD joining...). The list goes on really.

People want them for the app and wow factor. It is infinitely annoying and frustrating. Even after explaining to people that there are countless amounts of Windows based software alternatives available to them on any of our networked machines they still want the iPads for the "apps".

Hopefully this Surface makes it into my work environment and we see more Windows based tablets being introduced because the current Win 7 based tablets aren't too popular.

However, all that being said, if implemented correctly I do believe they CAN be a great tool for people with special needs and younger children.


----------



## /\/_|_\/\

Watch and see the ipad and air outsell it. plus, it froze up in the middle of their announcement.


----------



## kskwerl

Def want one of these


----------



## dioxholster

The stand at the back is the stupidiest thing ever. heres what they shouldve done:

the keyboard mat thing doesnt need to be laid out like a normal laptop keyboard, instead they should have attached the mat on top of the screen, basically have it cover the whole tablet like a blanket. The mat would be transparent enough to have you be able to see through it and see the display as you type on it. You put the thing on your lap and type, you don't need to have the screen angled to your face while you typing. Tug the keyboard mat off when you just want to surf and light texting. For that, the mat could be attached megnatically to the tablet on its sides, and flips on it like an actual sketchbook cover.


----------



## Tehrawk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dioxholster*
> 
> The stand at the back is the stupidiest thing ever. heres what they shouldve done:
> the keyboard mat thing doesnt need to be laid out like a normal laptop keyboard, instead they should have attached the mat on top of the screen, basically have it cover the whole tablet like a blanket. The mat would be transparent enough to have you be able to see through it and see the display as you type on it. You put the thing on your lap and type, you don't need to have the screen angled to your face while you typing. Tug the keyboard mat off when you just want to surf and light texting. For that, the mat could be attached megnatically to the tablet on its sides, and flips on it like an actual sketchbook cover.


That is a crazy terrible idea! Covering half the screen, just so you can type? Having to take off this mat whenever you want to do something fullscreen, and then replace it when you want to type again. Who would do that... seriously? The whole point in having the keyboard, and the kickstand, is so you can use the device as a notebook. While sitting on a chair at a table. Its a little hard to be productive when you are basically lounging on a sofa with your feet up.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> I'd much rather use the pen with the desktop interface than the metro interface at all. We don't know about battery life and all that yet, but being larger it should have a larger batter.
> And I'll take performance over battery life any day on something like this. If I'm ever portable enough to need more than 4-5 hours, I'm doing something wrong and should be enjoying my time outside
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> So yes, I'll take x86 compatibility and my cataloger of hundreds of games and applications over a few hours of battery life
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> If I was to use this for work, it would be docked %70 of the time unless I was doing some photo editing. This would be great for meetings and work in general
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the gaming aspect of it just makes it much sweeter (if the zooming still operates properly, anyways).


I would never buy a tablet for productivity. 10" is too small for me to do serious work on. I want arm laptops though


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> I'd much rather use the pen with the desktop interface than the metro interface at all. We don't know about battery life and all that yet, but being larger it should have a larger batter.
> And I'll take performance over battery life any day on something like this. If I'm ever portable enough to need more than 4-5 hours, I'm doing something wrong and should be enjoying my time outside
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> So yes, I'll take x86 compatibility and my cataloger of hundreds of games and applications over a few hours of battery life
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> If I was to use this for work, it would be docked %70 of the time unless I was doing some photo editing. This would be great for meetings and work in general
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the gaming aspect of it just makes it much sweeter (if the zooming still operates properly, anyways).


have fun gaming on that hd4000...


----------



## M3T4LM4N222

A tablet with a full OS and a processor that isn't junk = WIN. You can't compare the iPad which runs a cut down OS (iOS) to the surface which runs a full blown operating system. Now if the iPad ran Mac OS it'd be a different story.

I've heard a lot of people say "$799 yeah right that's not going to sell" Are you kidding me? The iPad sell for $599 every damn day and it has a majorly cut down OS. If the iPad had a full blown OS like MAC OS it'd probably sell for $799 no problem. We've had tablets that could run full blown operating systems before, but all of them have flopped because they've either been paired with horribly slow processor or the operating system put on it wouldn't work well with a touch screen. The Surface will have a good processor and Windows 8 should be optimized for the touch screen.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3T4LM4N222*
> 
> A tablet with a full OS and a processor that isn't junk = WIN. You can't compare the iPad which runs a cut down OS (iOS) to the surface which runs a full blown operating system. Now if the iPad ran Mac OS it'd be a different story.
> I've heard a lot of people say "$799 yeah right that's not going to sell" Are you kidding me? The iPad sell for $599 every damn day and it has a majorly cut down OS. If the iPad had a full blown OS like MAC OS it'd probably sell for $799 no problem.


There are already x86 tabs out there. This one just has windows 8, which you could install on the others anyway.

Not exactly revolutionary. Also, its not i doubt everyone cares if they have a full os on there tablet, in fact i bet most dont. They care about the screen qnd battery life.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Abs.exe*
> 
> 
> MICROSOFT>APPLE


I can charge an IPad off an windows 8 tablet?


----------



## Core2uu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skylit*
> 
> I can charge an IPad off an windows 8 tablet?


If you have a Windows 8 Pro tablet, there's no reason you couldn't also activate an iPad using a Windows 8 tablet.


----------



## xJavontax

Love my iPad, but Microsoft never seems to do third party right. With the exception of their Xbox and Windows divisions, but everything else fails due to lack of support from third parties (Zune being a primary victim, and WP7 looks gorgeous but there's just not enough support to compete with iOS or even Android.)

That being said I still want one (the Intel version), but I heard the version I want will be close to $1000. So I'm probably not getting one initially.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3T4LM4N222*
> 
> A tablet with a full OS and a processor that isn't junk = WIN. You can't compare the iPad which runs a cut down OS (iOS) to the surface which runs a full blown operating system. Now if the iPad ran Mac OS it'd be a different story.
> I've heard a lot of people say "$799 yeah right that's not going to sell" Are you kidding me? The iPad sell for $599 every damn day and it has a majorly cut down OS. If the iPad had a full blown OS like MAC OS it'd probably sell for $799 no problem. We've had tablets that could run full blown operating systems before, but all of them have flopped because they've either been paired with horribly slow processor or the operating system put on it wouldn't work well with a touch screen. The Surface will have a good processor and Windows 8 should be optimized for the touch screen.


You're only thinking about the tech. You're forgetting what keeps Apple fans so happy, the ridiculous amount of support from third parties.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> There are already x86 tabs out there. This one just has windows 8, which you could install on the others anyway.
> Not exactly revolutionary. Also, its not i doubt everyone cares if they have a full os on there tablet, in fact i bet most dont. They care about the screen qnd battery life.


But what x86 tablets have full Core i3s in them or, if the lesser, rumored Tegra 3 with full OS on them?
Not to mention it's made by the company Microsoft themselves. They normally don't make these types of things, its hardware. PRetty revolutionary indeed.

And that isn't entirely true. People to this day choose laptops over tablets for a specific reason. And that is because you can do so much more freely with a laptop _just because of the OS._


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tehrawk*
> 
> That is a crazy terrible idea! Covering half the screen, just so you can type? Having to take off this mat whenever you want to do something fullscreen, and then replace it when you want to type again. Who would do that... seriously? The whole point in having the keyboard, and the kickstand, is so you *can use the device as a notebook. While sitting on a chair at a table. Its a little hard to be productive when you are basically lounging on a sofa with your feet up.*


If one is a digital artist, the wacom digitizer will be a good feature to have. I've used one before, and they are awesome. Some of my best 2D art has been done in photoshop/gimp.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> I would never buy a tablet for productivity. 10" is too small for me to do serious work on. I want arm laptops though


What kind of productivity are you doing with just one screen?

IB supports 3-4 monitors(IIRC, I know it will be at least two. The smaller 10" would not be used as a monitor.) With a dock, and two monitors, I would actually have a more productive workstation. Two larger monitors (23"-32") with a screen to alert me of notifications or received emails, ect.. Right now I'm on a i5-455m(i think) and with it can only output two monitors simultaneously. I could have 4 documents open at the same time instead of 2, which would mean I'd be spending less time of the day re-arranging the desktop to suit my needs and spreadsheets. Right now I've got my laptop screen(14"), and a monitor.

This would also be awesome to take into the meetings that I have, Taking notes on this would be more efficient for me too, I would have a pen( not a capacitive stylus that's no good for writing)my notes would be digital @ 600dpi. The battery would be enough to last though one of the long meetings, and the dock portable enough to use (hopefully less cumbersome than a laptop charger) that's compatible with the cover touch keyboard.

I have no idea what would be a better idea for an "arm" laptop than this. Unless you mean attachable to the arm like a watch. This large of screen would be cumbersome, but it's only an extra 1.5lbs(?) on your wrist







,

edit: i forgot to mention that I have a 7" tab for media consumption purposes that has the battery life/screen when I need it







Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> have fun gaming on that hd4000...


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *M3T4LM4N222*
> 
> A tablet with a full OS and a processor that isn't junk = WIN. You can't compare the iPad which runs a cut down OS (iOS) to the surface which runs a full blown operating system. Now if the iPad ran Mac OS it'd be a different story.
> I've heard a lot of people say "$799 yeah right that's not going to sell" Are you kidding me? The iPad sell for $599 every damn day and it has a majorly cut down OS. If the iPad had a full blown OS like MAC OS it'd probably sell for $799 no problem. *We've had tablets that could run full blown operating systems before, but all of them have flopped because they've either been paired with horribly slow processor or the operating system put on it wouldn't work well with a touch screen. The Surface will have a good processor and Windows 8 should be optimized for the touch screen.*


This.

It took too damn long.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> There are already x86 tabs out there. This one just has windows 8, which you could install on the others anyway.
> Not exactly revolutionary. Also, its not i doubt everyone cares if they have a full os on there tablet, in fact i bet most dont. They care about the screen qnd battery life.


IB and the digitizer are the clenchers for me, which other tabs don't have at the moment. This isn't considering this is a laptop with most of a tablets battery life. The screen will be fine for what it is,
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Core2uu*
> 
> If you have a Windows 8 Pro tablet, there's no reason you couldn't also activate an iPad using a Windows 8 tablet.











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xJavontax*
> 
> Love my iPad, but Microsoft never seems to do third party right. With the exception of their Xbox and Windows divisions, but everything else fails due to lack of support from third parties (Zune being a primary victim, and WP7 looks gorgeous but there's just not enough support to compete with iOS or even Android.)
> That being said I still want one (the Intel version), but I heard the version I want will be close to $1000. So I'm probably not getting one initially.
> You're only thinking about the tech. *You're forgetting what keeps Apple fans so happy, the ridiculous amount of support from third parties.*


So true







.


----------



## DaClownie

While the article was incredibly sensational (I mean, he's obviously a HUGE fan of this thing from the get go)... this does seem like an amazingly useful product, and I can see this replacing my HP Touchpad, and my laptop, into a single usable product. Bravo, I hope it works well.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaClownie*
> 
> While the article was incredibly sensational (I mean, he's obviously a HUGE fan of this thing from the get go)... this does seem like an amazingly useful product, and I can see this replacing my HP Touchpad, and my laptop, into a single usable product. Bravo, I hope it works well.


Si. Two docks and I'm golden. One for work, one for home







.

This takes the windows ecosystem, and puts it into a form factor I like alot.

Oddly enough, I can't decide if my favorite feature is going to be the pen I'll loose or the ventilation mechanism will have a fine enough mesh to catch all the particulates. If the venting acts like it's been demonstrated, then that's actually something I haven't seen yet, quite innovative.


----------



## Shogon

Until Windows can compete with the App's Apple has on the iPad...

Other then that this looks cool and new, simply looks like they just flipped a laptop around and put all the mechanics on where the screen goes stead of the keys.


----------



## BizzareRide

Does this thing really have 2048 levels of pressure like the high-end Wacom digitizers? That's hard to believe.. Even if it had 256 that's still 16x the sensitivity of the iPad.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *marbleduck*
> 
> I fail to see how this is better looking than a Macbook Air/Pro


This just in: looks are subjective.


----------



## Pendulum

Shut up and take my money.
I've been waiting for something like this for college for a very long time.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogon*
> 
> Until Windows can compete with the App's Apple has on the iPad...
> Other then that this looks cool and new, simply looks like they just flipped a laptop around and put all the mechanics on where the screen goes stead of the keys.


Thats plus/negative side of the two pronged approach, one for the consumption market, one for the production market. Will one, fail because it doesn't already have applications?

I'm also reading around that if a dev uses VS12(?) for win8, it will be compatible for the arm surface as well.

Great comparison for the pro, a laptop with a removable keyboard.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BizzareRide*
> 
> Does this thing really have 2048 levels of pressure like the high-end Wacom digitizers? That's hard to believe.. Even if it had 256 that's still 16x the sensitivity of the iPad.
> This just in: looks are subjective.


I'm making the assumption that it will be the 2048(pro)-1024(arm) versions like they have on the Cintiq. It should be cheaper to do that at volumes like MS is going to want, and the hardware is already there to support it, too. The pens have the slight possibility to be compatible too, and that would be really cool.

Still, I'd take 256 and wacoms precision any-day

looks are very subjective. I love the design and colors. I lighter bezel would have been better, but it's still sexy.


----------



## darknight670

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BizzareRide*
> 
> Does this thing really have 2048 levels of pressure like the high-end Wacom digitizers? That's hard to believe.. Even if it had 256 that's still 16x the sensitivity of the iPad.
> This just in: looks are subjective.


The iPad has a pressure sensitivity of 0

The surface has a pressure sensitivity of 0

Only the pen has one...

And ( not surprisingly, it's gawker ) this Gizmodo article sounded awfully like a press release from Microsoft. We know nothing of the surface except that it has a keyboard


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shogon*
> 
> Until Windows can compete with the App's Apple has on the iPad...
> 
> Other then that this looks cool and new, simply looks like they just flipped a laptop around and put all the mechanics on where the screen goes stead of the keys.


Why would they need to compete when their fully funtional OS has ALL applications that iOS uses* + nearly every application from windows DOS and on? Most iOS applications are an attempt to bring desktop services to the tablet environment. Everything first started on the PC and is essentially being ported to the tablet. So really, where is the competition other then form factor?

* - Take note that I don't necessairly mean the EXACT same applications, but applications that at least the "original" mock of. Let alone, the desktop versions were MUCH better.


----------



## F1ynn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Core2uu*
> 
> If you have a Windows 8 Pro tablet, there's no reason you couldn't also activate an iPad using a Windows 8 tablet.


you dont need a computer to activate a ipad..just sayin..


----------



## xJavontax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Why would they need to compete when their fully funtional OS has ALL applications that iOS uses* + nearly every application from windows DOS and on? Most iOS applications are an attempt to bring desktop services to the tablet environment. Everything first started on the PC and is essentially being ported to the tablet. So really, where is the competition other then form factor?
> * - Take note that I don't necessairly mean the EXACT same applications, but applications that at least the "original" mock of. Let alone, the desktop versions were MUCH better.


Not necessarily. Social networking apps like Instagram (there's a ton of users) aren't available on the web or in desktop form. A lot of games (specifically Gameloft games) aren't available on the web or in desktop form. If they were they would hardly be playable on the hardware I presume. There's more to add but I'm just too lazy to list them


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xJavontax*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Why would they need to compete when their fully funtional OS has ALL applications that iOS uses* + nearly every application from windows DOS and on? Most iOS applications are an attempt to bring desktop services to the tablet environment. Everything first started on the PC and is essentially being ported to the tablet. So really, where is the competition other then form factor?
> * - Take note that I don't necessairly mean the EXACT same applications, but applications that at least the "original" mock of. Let alone, the desktop versions were MUCH better.
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily. Social networking apps like Instagram (there's a ton of users) aren't available on the web or in desktop form. A lot of games (specifically Gameloft games) aren't available on the web or in desktop form. If they were they would hardly be playable on the hardware I presume. There's more to add but I'm just too lazy to list them
Click to expand...

Applications like fotoflexer, photobucket, facebook, etc., pretty much do the same thing. A lot of games, if not all, have a "desktop form" as well. Windows' based tablets have had touch based controls since 2002, so all games will work. Multi touch games also work in a single-touch environment as well.

I would like to hear more as so far, everything you suggested, has a "desktop form".


----------



## dantoddd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Penicilyn*
> 
> Sorry but I see this being the next Zune or WP7. Microsoft just cant seem to market hardware properly.


ever heard of the xbox, or the xbox 360


----------



## Spartan117

The article was paid for by microsoft or something? They know nothing about the price or the entire specs and they are making these outrageous claims, "Come this fall, you will have two choices: 1) Get a MacBook Air for work and an iPad for play or 2) Get a beautifully designed, ultra-fast tablet with a sleek touch interface that can also be a full computer with the power of an ultrabook."


----------



## dantoddd

I'm definitely buying the pro version. the mild concern is that it comes with an i5 ivy bridge, which apparently runs a little too hot. I can see this replacing a lot more than just the i-pad and mac book air. This can replace half the laptops & tablets out there. Anything that run can full productivity suits, games & actual application, as opposed to apps, while retaining the functionality of tablets is golden. I expect every other laptop company to scramble to release their own version


----------



## dantoddd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spartan117*
> 
> The article was paid for by microsoft or something? They know nothing about the price or the entire specs and they are making these outrageous claims, "Come this fall, you will have two choices: 1) Get a MacBook Air for work and an iPad for play or 2) Get a beautifully designed, ultra-fast tablet with a sleek touch interface that can also be a full computer with the power of an ultrabook."


the specs are out

http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/18/microsoft-surface-tablets-the-differences-between-rt-and-window/
Quote:


> *Surface for Windows RT tablet*
> Processor: NVIDIA Tegra-based ARM chip
> Weight: 676 grams
> Thickness: 9.3 millimeters
> Display: 10.6-inch ClearType HD capacitive touchpanel
> Battery: 31.5Wh
> I/O: microSD, USB 2.0, Micro HD Video, 2x2 MIMO antennae
> Software: Windows RT + Office Home & Student 2013 RT
> Accessories: Touch Cover, Type Cover, VaporMg Case & Stand
> Capacity: 32GB / 64GB
> Availability: "Around" the Windows 8 launch (fall 2012)
> Pricing: To be determined
> 
> *Surface for Windows 8 Pro tablet*
> Processor: Intel Core i5 (Ivy Bridge)
> Weight: 903 grams
> Thickness: 13.5 millimeters
> Display: 10.6-inch ClearType Full HD (1080p) capacitive touchpanel
> Battery: 42Wh
> I/O: microSDXC, USB 3.0, Mini DisplayPort, 2x2 MIMO antennae
> Software: Windows 8 Pro
> Accessories: Touch Cover, Type Cover, VaporMg Case & Stand, Pen with Palm Block
> Capacity: 64GB / 128GB
> Availability: "Three months after" the Windows 8 launch this fall
> Pricing: To be determined


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xJavontax*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> Why would they need to compete when their fully funtional OS has ALL applications that iOS uses* + nearly every application from windows DOS and on? Most iOS applications are an attempt to bring desktop services to the tablet environment. Everything first started on the PC and is essentially being ported to the tablet. So really, where is the competition other then form factor?
> * - Take note that I don't necessairly mean the EXACT same applications, but applications that at least the "original" mock of. Let alone, the desktop versions were MUCH better.
> 
> 
> 
> Not necessarily. Social networking apps like Instagram (there's a ton of users) aren't available on the web or in desktop form. A lot of games (specifically Gameloft games) aren't available on the web or in desktop form. If they were they would hardly be playable on the hardware I presume. There's more to add but I'm just too lazy to list them
Click to expand...

Right, but if this platform takes off, there will be a version for it. On a positive note... it can just run desktop apps. Besides, am I the only adult that gets bored with cell phone games within 30 minutes usually?

I can't wait to see Diablo 3 benchmarks on this thing. lol


----------



## L D4WG

Um.... How exactly does it make anything obsolete? Its just a keyboard and touchpad for a tablet, every tablet can do this now....


----------



## dantoddd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L D4WG*
> 
> Um.... How exactly does it make anything obsolete? Its just a keyboard and touchpad for a tablet, every tablet can do this now....


It runs a full version of windows.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dantoddd*
> 
> It runs a full version of windows.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dantoddd*
> 
> It runs a full version of windows.


As do some current tablets. So yeah its not really at all


----------



## Rotsae

All happy and excited until I saw
Quote:


> Availability: "Three months after" the Windows 8 launch this fall


Microsoft always find some way to f-up. Why you do this to me.


----------



## Kasp1js

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> As do some current tablets. So yeah its not really at all


But never a full OS has been this "optimized" for tablet use.


----------



## Nutty Pumpkin

Wait for reviews, then I will sell my Galaxy Tab 7.7 and iPhone.

I hope they do well. Its a great design and Windows 8 is perfect for touch input.


----------



## dantoddd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> As do some current tablets. So yeah its not really at all


not really. All the current one's have awful interface issues.


----------



## bobuy00

Wait a second.... Who needs iOS apps if we can play Torchlight 2 on this thing! (hopefully). I mean seriously, as long as the HD 4000 can handle it, strategy games would be a hoot.


----------



## rainbowhash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bobuy00*
> 
> Wait a second.... Who needs iOS apps if we can play Torchlight 2 on this thing! (hopefully). I mean seriously, as long as the HD 4000 can handle it, strategy games would be a hoot.


This pretty much, WoW and other games on a tablet sounds pretty sexy.


----------



## pewter77

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *She loved E*
> 
> will be ruined by win8 interface. *ducks*


Win 8 interface feels stupid for desktops but it was made for this type of machine. One thing i see being a problem is that this thing won't be easily repairable which many have been saying is a big annoyance of the latest mac laptops. Take that as you will, I think this thing looks pretty amazing.


----------



## Mach 5

What are the specs for the Ivy Bridge inside it? I dont know too much about those, is it safe to assume they'll crush anything ARM based without taking up too much juice?

From what I understand this is a full fledged PC, so you can install actual programs on there rather than only crappy apps, or am I wrong?

If this is true, ive just found my first tablet, makes me glad that Asus took so long with the padfone as now I can get a galaxy S3 and this, then I can sell my laptop.

Touch screen Football Manager.....I think I just jizzed in my pants a bit there...


----------



## Oranuro

This is the only way MS will get me to even look at Windows 8.


----------



## quietpressure

The people won't like Windows 8 (they saw this coming) only as a software, so they decided to create the hardware.

This is going to be legendary -- just like the release of iPad; although, I hope that this gets a better impression unlike the first release of iPad.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spartan117*
> 
> The article was paid for by microsoft or something? They know nothing about the price or the entire specs and they are making these outrageous claims, "Come this fall, you will have two choices: 1) Get a MacBook Air for work and an iPad for play or 2) Get a beautifully designed, ultra-fast tablet with a sleek touch interface that can also be a full computer with the power of an ultrabook."


Have you not paid attention to gizmodo at all over the past few weeks? They were gushing about the MBP like it was going to save the PC industry.

It all depends on the viewpoint of the author, but the part you quoted is true (if we only consider the IB version), nor exaggerated.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dantoddd*
> 
> I'm definitely buying the pro version. the mild concern is that it comes with an i5 ivy bridge, which apparently runs a little too hot. I can see this replacing a lot more than just the i-pad and mac book air. This can replace half the laptops & tablets out there. Anything that run can full productivity suits, games & actual application, as opposed to apps, while retaining the functionality of tablets is golden. I expect every other laptop company to scramble to release their own version


IB gets hot while OC'd. Normal usage it's either the same or lower temps, and these chips will be running @ 17w if my guestimations are correct.


----------



## hollywood406

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Calibos*


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......... Thanks for the laughs +rep for telling it like it is. I don't think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. To me it looks just like your picture, a glorified laptop. I don't see myself buying one as I don't care for Windows 8 plus it'll probably cost a fortune.


----------



## hollywood406

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *She loved E*
> 
> will be ruined by win8 interface. *ducks*


^^THIS^^ Plus it will be overpriced


----------



## G3RG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hollywood406*
> 
> ^^THIS^^ Plus it will be overpriced


I strongly disagree. This is the perfect place for windows 8. Windows 8 will be terrible on desktops but it's wonderful with a touch screen.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *G3RG*
> 
> I strongly disagree. This is the perfect place for windows 8. Windows 8 will be terrible on desktops but it's wonderful with a touch screen.


This


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dantoddd*
> 
> not really. All the current one's have awful interface issues.


The only difference is that this has windows 8 on it, am i wrong?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> The only difference is that this has windows 8 on it, am i wrong?


yes, it's got much more power(pro) and the wacom digitizer (and the metro interface)


----------



## CaptainChaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> The only difference is that this has windows 8 on it, am i wrong?


It's got Windows 8, it was built from the ground up to utilize windows 8, it's much more powerful than any other Windows tablet, it has an awesome digitizer.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CaptainChaos*
> 
> It's got Windows 8, it was built from the ground up to utilize windows 8, it's much more powerful than any other Windows tablet, it has an awesome digitizer.


I dont see how this is revolutionary at all. I can run windows 8 on current tablets. Obviously, its much more powerful than current tablets but its not going to be released for what 6 months. Sounds like a bunch of hullabaloo from ms fanboys


----------



## Newbie2009

Well, I have held off getting a laptop and/or a tablet to date. Came close with the Asus transformer, but it being android put me off. I like what I see so far, but need more info.


----------



## DarkBlade6

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xJavontax*
> 
> Not necessarily. Social networking apps like Instagram (there's a ton of users) aren't available on the web or in desktop form. A lot of games (specifically Gameloft games) aren't available on the web or in desktop form. If they were they would hardly be playable on the hardware I presume. There's more to add but I'm just too lazy to list them


When you have a full sized browser with a 10''+ screen , you dont need an ''App'' for ......... Facebook -_- , seriously app were made for phone, not for tablet (or Tablet PC).


----------



## Mach 5

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> Well, I have held off getting a laptop and/or a tablet to date. Came close with the Asus transformer, but it being android put me off. I like what I see so far, but need more info.


Pretty much the same boat im in, originally I wanted a tablet just for basic internet browsing on a bigger screen than my phone, but if this has the potential I think it does, it could very well replace my laptop entirely.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> I dont see how this is revolutionary at all. I can run windows 8 on current tablets. Obviously, its much more powerful than current tablets but its not going to be released for what 6 months. Sounds like a bunch of hullabaloo from ms fanboys


It's not revolutionary, it's innovative.

There is a difference between the words, and the distinction needs to be made to understand the progress that has been made.

I'm tired of buzz words like "revolutionary" and "retina" or even "more cores".


----------



## xJavontax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DarkBlade6*
> 
> When you have a full sized browser with a 10''+ screen , you dont need an ''App'' for ......... Facebook -_- , seriously app were made for phone, not for tablet (or Tablet PC).


Some people such as myself just prefer a dedicated "app", don't know why I'm just like that. I'll take a webapp, but a dedicated app is something that I'm accustomed to and for some reason appeals to me.

Also, "apps were made for phone" isn't really true, app stands for application and your browser that you're posting in is an application itself.

Anyway, there's a lot of potential for this thing if it's priced right and advertised competitively. I just don't see either of those things happening, which is why I'm extremely hesitant to say it will overtake the iPad. Especially when so many tablet users already have a lot of money invested in iOS, which is why Apple has so many users. If you've invested a lot of money into one ecosystem, you probably wouldn't just drop all of it and move to a new one because the hardware is new and shiny.

Also, I don't see this thing running games well. The screen is 1080p, and the Intel HD 3000 often has a hard time running games at 1366x768. Sure this is the 4000, but the performance is in no way a boost large enough to game at 1080p comfortably or even 720p at 60FPS (30, maybe).

As far as apps go, wasn't the Microsoft Windows App Store leaked a LONG time ago? That's probably why the introduced it in Windows 8, for devices like this.

And I've said it once but I'll say it again, $1000 isn't the sweet spot for this. Place the Intel version at $700 and you should be golden. I only paid $350 for my iPad which is a pretty good deal. The difference in prices with these devices is substantial enough to turn many people off.

I may pick one up anyway though, I need a laptop just for typing stuff and if the keyboard is as great as people say it is I will probably get this instead


----------



## ljason8eg

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> I dont see how this is revolutionary at all. I can run windows 8 on current tablets. Obviously, its much more powerful than current tablets but its not going to be released for what 6 months. Sounds like a bunch of hullabaloo from ms fanboys


We get it, you don't like it. I think your work here is done.


----------



## jprovido

tablet with windows 8 and will support windows software = instant selling point for me. im grabbing one on retail.


----------



## cavallino

In all the forums I read people are asking questions like can I use a mouse with it, can I use a full size mechanical keyboard, or can I use x peripheral with it. These aren't the kinds of questions one asks of a tablet. Its going to effect the laptop market not the tablet market. It weighs 2 pounds its not a tablet replacement.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darknight670*
> 
> The iPad has a pressure sensitivity of 0
> The surface has a pressure sensitivity of 0
> Only the pen has one...
> And ( not surprisingly, it's gawker ) this Gizmodo article sounded awfully like a press release from Microsoft. We know nothing of the surface except that it has a keyboard


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Spartan117*
> 
> The article was paid for by microsoft or something? They know nothing about the price or the entire specs and they are making these outrageous claims, "Come this fall, you will have two choices: 1) Get a MacBook Air for work and an iPad for play or 2) Get a beautifully designed, ultra-fast tablet with a sleek touch interface that can also be a full computer with the power of an ultrabook."


Look at who wrote the article. If you know anything about Gizmodo, you'd know that Jesus Diaz is known for two things. First, he will often post highly inflammatory articles with sensationalist titles that often misunderstand the source or blow the story out of proportion. Second, he is known for worshipping at the altar of Apple. He is one of the biggest and most vocal Apple fanboys out there. For him to write this article is pretty substantial and there's no way he's some sort of MS shill.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> I dont see how this is revolutionary at all. I can run windows 8 on current tablets. Obviously, its much more powerful than current tablets but its not going to be released for what 6 months. Sounds like a bunch of hullabaloo from ms fanboys


The thing about the Surface is that it's not necessarily revolutionary, but it's evolutionary and incredibly innovative. Just like Apple did with the iPod, they sat back and watched the market develop, what people were looking for, and how to make it better. They looked at UIs and saw what works and doesn't and made a simple, easy to navigate and use UI. They listened to what people wanted with the OS. People wanted something that was easy to use, but that's also not completely locked down and that gives them access to a full OS. People wanted something highly portable, but that also has a lot of functionality, which they did with the digitizer and keyboard coupled with the small size and pretty incredible weight.

It's not a product that's blowing people away because it has so many new and amazing features. There are a few elegant solutions to problems that they couldn't find by refining something already on the market, but it's something that people are excited about because it's both minimalist and complex, because MS listened to what their customer base wanted, and because it all comes in a svelte and sexy package.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nubbinator*
> 
> The thing about the Surface is that it's not necessarily revolutionary, but it's evolutionary and incredibly innovative. Just like Apple did with the iPod, they sat back and watched the market develop, what people were looking for, and how to make it better. They looked at UIs and saw what works and doesn't and made a simple, easy to navigate and use UI. They listened to what people wanted with the OS. People wanted something that was easy to use, but that's also not completely locked down and that gives them access to a full OS. People wanted something highly portable, but that also has a lot of functionality, which they did with the digitizer and keyboard coupled with the small size and pretty incredible weight.
> It's not a product that's blowing people away because it has so many new and amazing features. There are a few elegant solutions to problems that they couldn't find by refining something already on the market, but it's something that people are excited about because it's both minimalist and complex, because MS listened to what their customer base wanted, and because it all comes in a svelte and sexy package.


Weve had x86 tablets for what 20 years? Since the mid 90s at least. The only thing revolutionary is the combination of touch and traditional interface in windows 8. If anything, arm tablets are more revolutionary (they represent a bigger change, whether good or bad)


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> Weve had x86 tablets for what 20 years? Since the mid 90s at least. The only thing revolutionary is the combination of touch and traditional interface in windows 8. If anything, arm tablets are more revolutionary (they represent a bigger change, whether good or bad)


IT'S NOT REVOLUTIONARY!!!!

It's Innovative.

For reference:

Revolutionary:
Quote:


> of, pertaining to, characterized by, or of the nature of a revolution, or a sudden, complete, or marked change: a revolutionary junta.
> 
> or
> 
> *radically* new or innovative; outside or beyond established procedure, principles, etc.: a revolutionary discovery.


Innovate:
Quote:


> to introduce something new; *make changes in anything established*.


Your cannot argue that these features in this package is not innovative. You can, however, argue till your face is blue that they're not revolutionary, because the two words mean something similar, but there is a distinction.


----------



## nubbinator

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> Weve had x86 tablets for what 20 years? Since the mid 90s at least. The only thing revolutionary is the combination of touch and traditional interface in windows 8. If anything, arm tablets are more revolutionary (they represent a bigger change, whether good or bad)


Reread what I wrote, because your response makes it obvious that you're raging against MS without listening to other sides. I never called it revolutionary. I called it evolutionary and innovative and discussed how MS took a page from Apple's book, resulting in a product that looks fantastic.


----------



## dklimitless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xJavontax*
> 
> Some people such as myself just prefer a dedicated "app", don't know why I'm just like that. I'll take a webapp, but a dedicated app is something that I'm accustomed to and for some reason appeals to me.
> Also, "apps were made for phone" isn't really true, app stands for application and your browser that you're posting in is an application itself.
> Anyway, there's a lot of potential for this thing if it's priced right and advertised competitively. I just don't see either of those things happening, which is why I'm extremely hesitant to say it will overtake the iPad. Especially when so many tablet users already have a lot of money invested in iOS, which is why Apple has so many users. If you've invested a lot of money into one ecosystem, you probably wouldn't just drop all of it and move to a new one because the hardware is new and shiny.
> Also, I don't see this thing running games well. The screen is 1080p, and the Intel HD 3000 often has a hard time running games at 1366x768. *Sure this is the 4000, but the performance is in no way a boost large enough to game at 1080p comfortably or even 720p at 60FPS (30, maybe).*
> As far as apps go, wasn't the Microsoft Windows App Store leaked a LONG time ago? That's probably why the introduced it in Windows 8, for devices like this.
> And I've said it once but I'll say it again, $1000 isn't the sweet spot for this. Place the Intel version at $700 and you should be golden. I only paid $350 for my iPad which is a pretty good deal. The difference in prices with these devices is substantial enough to turn many people off.
> I may pick one up anyway though, I need a laptop just for typing stuff and if the keyboard is as great as people say it is I will probably get this instead


That's just it. The surface isn't supposed to be a gaming machine. That argument applies to EVERY tablet and ultrabook on the market with integrated graphics. If you want something for 1080p gaming, you have to go bigger than that.
While intel is still lacking in the graphics department (unfortunately), the 4000 series is decent for simple DX games that people will want to play on a tablet (and might actually floor some current tablets at that).

I would have loved to see trinity in one of these buy oh well ....


----------



## xJavontax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dklimitless*
> 
> That's just it. The surface isn't supposed to be a gaming machine. That argument applies to EVERY tablet and ultrabook on the market with integrated graphics. If you want something for 1080p gaming, you have to go bigger than that.
> While intel is still lacking in the graphics department (unfortunately), the 4000 series is decent for simple DX games that people will want to play on a tablet (and might actually floor some current tablets at that).
> I would have loved to see trinity in one of these buy oh well ....


I know that, I'm agreeing with you. But I've seen some posts in the thread that are saying that gaming on this would beat gaming on an iPad or Android tablet. The thing is, games for iPads and Android tablets are designed for that hardware. There are so many variations of PC hardware, from slow to fast, that they're not as "optimized" as those games are? I guess that came out how I meant it to.

My point was that this thing isn't for gaming. It's powerful for a tablet, but those hoping to run games and other intensive windows applications on it can look for something else. This isn't meant for that, it's just a powerful tablet running a full OS.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xJavontax*
> 
> I know that, I'm agreeing with you. But I've seen some posts in the thread that are saying that gaming on this would beat gaming on an iPad or Android tablet. The thing is, games for iPads and Android tablets are designed for that hardware. There are so many variations of PC hardware, from slow to fast, that they're not as "optimized" as those games are? I guess that came out how I meant it to.
> My point was that this thing isn't for gaming. It's powerful for a tablet, but those hoping to run games and other intensive windows applications on it can look for something else. *This isn't meant for that, it's just a powerful tablet running a full OS.*


Any gaming that can be done it's more of a "perk" not a feature, IMHO.


----------



## BiscuitHead

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *di inferi*
> 
> I still have an iPad 1st gen. I use it on a daily basis when I am not at my sig rig. It crashes at least 3 times an hour.
> 
> I've been holding off getting a replacement tablet; looks like this is the one!


I'm right there with you. This thing look legit


----------



## xJavontax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> Any gaming that can be done it's more of a "perk" not a feature, IMHO.


Agreed. And any gaming that can be done would be awesome. I could totally see someone getting emulators working fantastically on it. I mean, Project64 and other emulators for older consoles already run great on devices with similar specs. My friend is running a 1st gen Core i3 laptop with integrated graphics for P64 and gets consistently smooth framerates. Imagine how this will fare.

I really want one, I just hope the price is more around the $700 range.


----------



## 8800GT

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Penicilyn*
> 
> Sorry but I see this being the next Zune or WP7. Microsoft just cant seem to market hardware properly.


Yea, they don't make the most popular console or anything...


----------



## RussianGrimmReaper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> I have been waiting about 10 years for a product like this. I'm excited because utilized correctly, this technology (with docking station/ Pro model) could *easily replace my work laptop* and add functionality (Wacom) that I have been lusting over for way too long.
> Fun times ahead, I wonder if this will go anywhere.
> It's an interesting article.


WinRT can't attach to domains.


----------



## OMG It's Bob

I'm not a huge fan of the "tablet revolution", and I hate many parts of Windows 8, but Microsoft has seemingly brought their a-game to the market.

I doubt I'll buy one for myself, but I'll probably buy one for my dad to play with for Christmas.


----------



## pjBSOD

Thread cleaned, stay on topic please.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OMG It's Bob*
> 
> I'm not a huge fan of the "tablet revolution", and I hate many parts of Windows 8, but Microsoft has seemingly brought their a-game to the market.
> I doubt I'll buy one for myself, but I'll probably buy one for my dad to play with for Christmas.


I'm hoping they brought it.

Most of the other product launches have been someone lack-luster as of late, and it would be really nice for them to do one right for a change.









Christmas is going to be a nice time for your dad (especially if he's just a little bit techie)


----------



## drbaltazar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> IT'S NOT REVOLUTIONARY!!!!
> It's Innovative.
> For reference:
> Revolutionary:
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> of, pertaining to, characterized by, or of the nature of a revolution, or a sudden, complete, or marked change: a revolutionary junta.
> or
> *radically* new or innovative; outside or beyond established procedure, principles, etc.: a revolutionary discovery.
> 
> 
> 
> Innovate:
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> to introduce something new; *make changes in anything established*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your cannot argue that these features in this package is not innovative. You can, however, argue till your face is blue that they're not revolutionary, because the two words mean something similar, but there is a distinction.
Click to expand...

oh their magnesium process thing is innovative,their keyboard is innovative,but the rest?come on,give me a break.maybe the rest is innovative for the team that build that thing ,but sure aint innovative compared to the rest of the market


----------



## Jackeduphard

I have to many toys ... when I can get one for 300$ I will buy one ...


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drbaltazar*
> 
> oh their magnesium process thing is innovative,their keyboard is innovative,but the rest?come on,give me a break.maybe the rest is innovative for the team that build that thing ,but sure aint innovative compared to the rest of the market


an i5 tablet? The design of the passive cooling they're giving it? The fact that Microsoft themselves are making it and not HP/ASUS/Dell/ect.?
Pretty innovative.

This thing is sleek. The fact is has an i5 in it and can still give it that clean finish without obtrusive fans is pretty slick. Top it off with the Windows 8 interface, full OS applications, mixed with Windows Phone apps, it will be pretty cool.


----------



## drbaltazar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jackeduphard*
> 
> I have to many toys ... when I can get one for 300$ I will buy one ...


this is the sad main issue!
you WILL be able to a kindle fire for 170$ relativle often,you will never get what ms made for that price,worst?drop the kidnle fire as many time as you want it will just plain work!the surface?better hope to all the gods you know!


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drbaltazar*
> 
> this is the sad main issue!
> you WILL be able to a kindle fire for 170$ relativle often,you will never get what ms made for that price,worst?drop the kidnle fire as many time as you want it will just plain work!the surface?better hope to all the gods you know!


I didn't understand any of that.
Have you dropped the Surface before? Do you know if its a sturdy build?
I wouldn't want to drop ANY device of mine, Kindle Fire included. I keep that thing extremely well kept. The build is kinda sturdy, but I wouldn't dare drop it.


----------



## CaptainChaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> I dont see how this is revolutionary at all. I can run windows 8 on current tablets. Obviously, its much more powerful than current tablets but its not going to be released for what 6 months. Sounds like a bunch of hullabaloo from ms fanboys


I'm not a MS fanboy, I own a Transformer Prime that I'm perfectly happy with. However if MS can pull this off with it would be a significant step up in the tablet market when it comes to versatility.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nubbinator*
> 
> Reread what I wrote, because your response makes it obvious that you're raging against MS without listening to other sides. I never called it revolutionary. I called it *evolutionary and innovative* and discussed how MS took a page from Apple's book, resulting in a product that looks fantastic.


Nailed it right there. Evolutionary really is the best way to describe it.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drbaltazar*
> 
> oh their magnesium process thing is innovative,their keyboard is innovative,but the rest?come on,give me a break.maybe the rest is innovative for the team that build that thing ,but sure aint innovative compared to the rest of the market


I'm with you there on that one.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28*
> 
> an i5 tablet? The design of the passive cooling they're giving it? The fact that Microsoft themselves are making it and not HP/ASUS/Dell/ect.?
> Pretty innovative.
> This thing is sleek. The fact is has an i5 in it and can still give it that clean finish without obtrusive fans is pretty slick. Top it off with the Windows 8 interface, full OS applications, mixed with Windows Phone apps, it will be pretty cool.


http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/tablet-pcs/XE700T1A-A01US. This tablet also already has an i5. Did I just blow this threads mind, heh


----------



## omgipown

Microsoft is late to the party. The hardware isn't what makes apple products... its the software. Apple already has a large amount of developers making top-notch apps for its iPad Tablet. Not to mention making iOs apps is relatively easy. I think the only people interested in the microsoft surface will be IT departments looking for something to integrate with their networks. The microsoft surface seems to be targeted towards business while the iPad at its core is a consumer product with the added bonus of the ability to do basic work


----------



## Jotun

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> I'm with you there on that one.
> http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/tablet-pcs/XE700T1A-A01US. This tablet also already has an i5. Did I just blow this threads mind, heh


And what exactly does that prove? Besides the already known fact that throughout the thread, you have bashed Microsoft for no reason other than having a very nice, new product competitor to the Ipad?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drbaltazar*
> 
> oh their magnesium process thing is innovative
> 
> ,their keyboard is innovative
> 
> ,but the rest?come on,give me a break.
> 
> maybe the rest is innovative for the team that build that thing ,but sure aint innovative compared to the rest of the market


Versatility my friend. Windows 7 isn't very touch friendly, albeit not terrible. The pen/digitizer is nice to use too, but it isn't as precise or as refined as wacom's technology. It also has metro, which (IIRC) was built specifically for this trio of devices. I'm skeptical of the arm tab, it only has the features of the pen and battery life, and the screen should be decent The keyboards cool, i'd go to the switch version myself. The problem for the arm tab will be the software library.

The features of the pro include the ones for arm, and 1 more awesome thing, the windows application library. It's a 17w IB CPU, which means it will have more power at lower clocks, so longer than normal battery life of a tablet. It may not be too far off the arm tablet times. The cpu can also downclock like a beast. It's not just an i5 (take note blade).

Overall, the whole package is there. The awesome part is now the CPU is powerful enough to actually be used for productivity applications, this is innovative. The package is innovative.

Keep in mind that I'm impressed with the pro, as is most everyone else. When I saw the first iteration of a windows tablet back in early 2000, I knew I would have to wait for windows in a box that would actually last through a few meetings.








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drbaltazar*
> 
> this is the sad main issue!
> you WILL be able to a kindle fire for 170$ relativle often,you will never get what ms made for that price,worst?drop the kidnle fire as many time as you want it will just plain work!the surface?better hope to all the gods you know!


kindle fire is in a completely different class than both of these surface's. The kindle fire is an awesome device, but I prefer the tab 7" +.

Drops happen for all devices. I have a feeling that the arm will be durable enough to survive a few, don't know about the pro yet though.

Heck, I'm still using an old wm6..5 phone. That thing has been through so much abuse it's not even phoney.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omgipown*
> 
> Microsoft is late to the party. The hardware isn't what makes apple products... its the software. Apple already has a large amount of developers making top-notch apps for its iPad Tablet. Not to mention making iOs apps is relatively easy. I think the only people interested in the microsoft surface will be IT departments looking for something to integrate with their networks. The microsoft surface seems to be targeted towards business while the iPad at its core is a consumer product with the added bonus of the ability to do basic work


the pro is definitely aimed at businesses, and the arm is aimed at the consumer. I worry about the arm version, but it could be successful given the right 20-40 applications.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jotun*
> 
> And what exactly does that prove? Besides the already known fact that throughout the thread, you have bashed Microsoft for no reason other than having a very nice, new product competitor to the Ipad?


Thats a great w7 device, though, I'll have to give him that. It's awesome for what it is, and samsung sexy. I'm hoping samsung refreses that line too! Get it on sale, load up win8 (if possible) and go to town!


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> I'm with you there on that one.
> http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/tablet-pcs/XE700T1A-A01US. This tablet also already has an i5. Did I just blow this threads mind, heh


I'm aware of the Series 7.
But have you got your hands on one before or read reviews?
http://www.engadget.com/2011/12/16/samsung-series-7-slate-pc-review/

It's heavy, has no battery life, is not slim, and honestly isn't entirely up to par. Decent piece of hardware, I concur, but not exactly pushing boundaries.
Oh, and you must've disregarded my point on how the vents on the back of the Surface for the i5 are not obtrusive, if barely noticeable at all. Series 7 has just the opposite.

Also, your post fails to acknowledge that the iPad was not the first tablet of its kind either. There were tablets _years_ before the iPad. Yet everyone calls the iPad innovative, revolutionary, incredible, yadda yadda. Just like all the iPods MP3 players.

So there was an i5 tablet before the Surface? Does that take away from the Surface? No.
The Surface clearly has addressed the biggest issues of the Series 7, and it has potential to be one of the most slimmest, supposedly well built, accessible tablets to compete with laptop/desktops to date. That single statement is innovation.
Quote:


> Thats a great w7 device, though, I'll have to give him that. It's awesome for what it is, and samsung sexy. I'm hoping samsung refreses that line too! Get it on sale, load up win8 (if possible) and go to town!


Originally it had Windows 8 on it at demo events, but they obviously released it earlier than Windows 8 went on retail








It's entirely possible. And Samsung will more likely do a Series 8, hopefully correcting the issues. It had tons of promise, and its a decent device.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28*
> 
> I'm aware of the Series 7.
> But have you got your hands on one before or read reviews?
> http://www.engadget.com/2011/12/16/samsung-series-7-slate-pc-review/
> It's heavy, has no battery life, is not slim, and honestly isn't entirely up to par. Decent piece of hardware, I concur, but not exactly pushing boundaries.
> Oh, and you must've disregarded my point on how the vents on the back of the Surface for the i5 are not obtrusive, if barely noticeable at all. Series 7 has just the opposite.
> Also, your post fails to acknowledge that the iPad was not the first tablet of its kind either. There were tablets _years_ before the iPad. Yet everyone calls the iPad innovative, revolutionary, incredible, yadda yadda. Just like all the iPods MP3 players.
> So there was an i5 tablet before the Surface? Does that take away from the Surface? No.
> The Surface clearly has addressed the biggest issues of the Series 7, and it has potential to be one of the most slimmest, supposedly well built, accessible tablets to compete with laptop/desktops to date. That single statement is innovation.


Yep, tablets in general are old news. What android and ios brought to the table was the ability to use arm processors however, that's what makes those products revolutionary to me (though I don't know the whole history of arm processors so I might be wrong).

In any case, I'm not interested in any of these current slates. I've never even considered getting a laptop that is less than 15" (well maybe considered but not that seriously). I have my android smartphone, and I don't see the advantage of a tablet over light ultrabook personally. I guess I'm just old school like that, I don't like small screens. I just think it's funny when people lose sight of history when the next newest thing comes out. When touch laptops go mainstream next year or so, I'll personally find it quite funny when everyone raves about how "revolutionary" those are as well.


----------



## Nocturin

Thank you, now we can have a discussion.


----------



## RushMore1205

i love it, im getting one as soon as it launches, but its not coming im guessing unitl win8 is out
but the keyboard is great, im very excited about this product

puts my transformer to shame


----------



## xJavontax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> Yep, tablets in general are old news. What android and ios brought to the table was the ability to use arm processors however, that's what makes those products revolutionary to me (though I don't know the whole history of arm processors so I might be wrong).
> In any case, I'm not interested in any of these current slates. I've never even considered getting a laptop that is less than 15" (well maybe considered but not that seriously). *I have my android smartphone, and I don't see the advantage of a tablet over light ultrabook personally. I guess I'm just old school like that, I don't like small screens.* I just think it's funny when people lose sight of history when the next newest thing comes out. When touch laptops go mainstream next year or so, I'll personally find it quite funny when everyone raves about how "revolutionary" those are as well.


I was the same way. I figured 4" was enough to do anything, if I needed bigger I'd get a laptop. Then I got an iPad and things changed, and fast. I still want an Ultrabook for productivity, but browsing on my iPad when I don't feel like sitting at a desk is a joy. And with all the apps, you'll never get bored. I also thought I'd never use all the 16GB on my iPad, but after a couple of weeks of owning it I randomly synced it up to my PC to find that I only had 1GB letft.

Once you use one yourself these things become integrated into your lifestyle and they change things. Which is why I'm interested in this now. A few months ago I wouldn't have really cared all that much. Now that I see what the tablet craze is about this thing has gotten me. I just can't justify paying $1000 on one yet.


----------



## drbaltazar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *omgipown*
> 
> Microsoft is late to the party. The hardware isn't what makes apple products... its the software. Apple already has a large amount of developers making top-notch apps for its iPad Tablet. Not to mention making iOs apps is relatively easy. I think the only people interested in the microsoft surface will be IT departments looking for something to integrate with their networks. The microsoft surface seems to be targeted towards business while the iPad at its core is a consumer product with the added bonus of the ability to do basic work


Now that is right.it is squarely aimed at all the mcdonald of the planet.the walmart of the planet still running xp or watchemacalit.and for those market this gona be a very nice upgrade. Window ce is nice but this should be better if it is backward compatible with w ce. If it isnt? I doubt any will notice this surface.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RushMore1205*
> 
> i love it, im getting one as soon as it launches, but its not coming im guessing unitl win8 is out
> but the keyboard is great, im very excited about this product
> puts my transformer to shame


I cant wait to try the mech keyboard.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xJavontax*
> 
> I was the same way. I figured 4" was enough to do anything, if I needed bigger I'd get a laptop. Then I got an iPad and things changed, and fast. I still want an Ultrabook for productivity, but browsing on my iPad when I don't feel like sitting at a desk is a joy. And with all the apps, you'll never get bored. I also thought I'd never use all the 16GB on my iPad, but after a couple of weeks of owning it I randomly synced it up to my PC to find that I only had 1GB letft.
> Once you use one yourself these things become integrated into your lifestyle and they change things. Which is why I'm interested in this now. A few months ago I wouldn't have really cared all that much. Now that I see what the tablet craze is about this thing has gotten me. I just can't justify paying $1000 on one yet.


i dunno, 15" ultrabooks is where its at for me. now apple and samsung both have options in this area (mbpr is basically an ultrabook). if it's approximately 4 pounds, it's light enough that i don't notice the weight unless i'm carrying a bunch of extra stuff.

i play tablet games on my phone to kill time, but they just don't have any depth most of the time it seems. i find more depth in old gba games most of the time.


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drbaltazar*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *omgipown*
> 
> Microsoft is late to the party. The hardware isn't what makes apple products... its the software. Apple already has a large amount of developers making top-notch apps for its iPad Tablet. Not to mention making iOs apps is relatively easy. I think the only people interested in the microsoft surface will be IT departments looking for something to integrate with their networks. The microsoft surface seems to be targeted towards business while the iPad at its core is a consumer product with the added bonus of the ability to do basic work
> 
> 
> 
> Now that is right.it is squarely aimed at all the mcdonald of the planet.the walmart of the planet still running xp or watchemacalit.and for those market this gona be a very nice upgrade. Window ce is nice but this should be better if it is backward compatible with w ce. If it isnt? I doubt any will notice this surface.
Click to expand...

I can't believe your translator translated watchemacalit for you. I'm impressed.

This thing is going to be quite awesome. It's essentially an ultra portable ultrabook. Perfect for being lazy on the couch, typing up notes in a class, or word processing like a pro when it's needed. Can't wait to see whats going on with the mech keyboard though


----------



## sctheluna

This is *EXACTLY* what I have been waiting for, and to think I was just about to buy an ultrabook... Thank you Microsoft I knew you'd come back.


----------



## Chris++

Man that thing is sexy...

Can't believe I'm actually considering the idea of buying it.


----------



## Darkpriest667

If the pro version is 700 bucks or less Im sold!


----------



## .:hybrid:.

I want to buy one and I don't even need it.


----------



## Affinity

I'm sure this has already been posted but epic fail is worth posting again.






Cool idea in theory but given Microsoft's track record, this thing will make itself obsolete.


----------



## Miki

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Affinity*
> 
> I'm sure this has already been posted but epic fail is worth posting again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cool idea in theory but given Microsoft's track record, this thing will make itself obsolete.


_Track record_? Multi-Billion dollar company, and you do what? The OS you're currently using, a long with most of the world, isn't it Windows?

_What_?

I'm by no means an MS fanboy. I own a Galaxy S II and previously I've owned two variations of the iPhone, the 3gS and 4. But, it gets so old when people make such ridiculous statements.

Funny video, but it means absolutely _nothing_ considering, last I checked, Windows 8 wasn't even released yet. Oh, right.

Btw, you can find similar bloopers from Apple presentations.


----------



## Proxyep

I wonder how app sideloading is gonna work.

Like if anyone has ever used windows 7 the only way to get apps (after the jailbreak was taken down) was through the official app store (as far as I'm aware) in a bid to reduce piracy

Now I am assuming that windows 8 is the same? Then how does one install one's own apps? Does that mean the lockdown on windows 8 is removed or is it gonna be there? Im really confused, 700-800 for a i5 slate could be good, but what about i3 and AMD parts shipping in a slate? I wonder how much would that cost.


----------



## Affinity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Miki*
> 
> _Track record_? Multi-Billion dollar company, and you do what? The OS you're currently using, a long with most of the world, isn't it Windows?
> _What_?
> I'm by no means an MS fanboy. I own a Galaxy S II and previously I've owned two variations of the iPhone, the 3gS and 4. But, it gets so old when people make such ridiculous statements.
> Funny video, but it means absolutely _nothing_ considering, last I checked, Windows 8 wasn't even released yet. Oh, right.
> Btw, you can find similar bloopers from Apple presentations.


Let me clarify, Windows hardware track record as well as Windows mobile track record. So no, the statement isn't as ridiculous as you would like to believe. I hope they do well I really do for I have no angst against Windows.


----------



## bogey1337

There are rumors popping up that the pro version will be 799 and the RT will be 599. If true, the pro version would be an awesome buy. Battery life would be the only concern left.


----------



## La Soapy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Penicilyn*
> 
> Sorry but I see this being the next Zune or WP7. Microsoft just cant seem to market hardware properly.


Microsoft doesn't make WP7 hardware...

Also, Xbox? I see your point though. I hope they pull this off. I'm selling my iPad 3 for the Pro version. My friends are picking one up as well. ^.^


----------



## tedman

I'm sure this is a nice bit of hardware, but Microsoft is like someone's embarrassing uncle when it comes to marketing.


----------



## La Soapy

I liked their teaser trailer for the surface on YouTube. Reminds me of the 5Gum adverts from a while back though!


----------



## chmodlabs

Sorry, microsoft surface is a complete joke. I have a friend who worked with on the windows 8, windows phone, an microsoft surface dev team, he basically said it was a bunch of people convincing each other they were doing game changing stuff and it was all crap. Sorry, but windows 8 is going to fail, and all attempts of a microsoft slate device have laughable resemblance to the apple ipad and didn't even work at the tech demo, not to mention the hiddeous color schemes used with all things past windows 7.
I love windows 7, but the next generation of windows stuff is going to be horrible.
- chmodlabs


----------



## La Soapy

Oh really? That's why people are gobsmacked (Who have owned iPads and iPhones for a long time) when I multi-task or five finger pinch? Oh and about a billion pages of people asking how to do simple stuff such as sync their music on the internet? Both are simple when you get the idea - but hating on Microsoft for providing informational videos is just wrong.

Edit: I mean multi-task and use gestures on my iPad as well by the way. >

- Ah, a quote was supposed to be in here for this post to make sense but now I can't find it. It's aimed at the person who was saying Microsoft's Metro was bad because they had a video showing how to use some features.


----------



## akromatic

+1 for the pro version but dont like the forced metro UI. i'm willing to accept it as a touch tablet but not desktop mode


----------



## ahhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chmodlabs*
> 
> Sorry, microsoft surface is a complete joke. I have a friend who worked with on the windows 8, windows phone, an microsoft surface dev team, he basically said it was a bunch of people convincing each other they were doing game changing stuff and it was all crap. Sorry, but windows 8 is going to fail, and all attempts of a microsoft slate device have laughable resemblance to the apple ipad and didn't even work at the tech demo, not to mention the hiddeous color schemes used with all things past windows 7.
> I love windows 7, but the next generation of windows stuff is going to be horrible.
> - chmodlabs


Seems legit.









My cousin's brother's sister's neighbor's daughter's son says you are wrong.


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahhell*
> 
> Seems legit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My cousin's brother's sister's neighbor's daughter's son says you are wrong.


I know him too, he told me different


----------



## cubanresourceful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> A how-to on how to use a un-released operating system on a tablet? Bad form microsoft, don't show you users how to use your products. Shame on you microsoft for needing a how-to in the first place
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They don't show you how to use their stuff, they tell you have you to use their stuff.
> For being an operating system so simple to use, picking it up (anecdotally) I feel just as unsure and lost in their operating systems as I do any other that I pick up. There's a learning curve there, and metro will have the same (at the least, similar) learning curve as any other apple/android product.
> Have you ever used WP7?
> It's pretty much pick it up and go. It doesn't get much simpler.
> Coming from the 2005 era, mobile operating systems have been so dumbed down that it's nearly impossible to not just be able to pick them up and go.
> they what?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *looks at past past apple keynotes*
> It sure looks like they're showing me the product and features, without actually explaining what they needed to do to get that feature to work on their product.
> It has nothing to do with R&D. This is a fallacy that I'm tired of seeing, MS has invested just as much time and money (if not more) into R & D. It has everything to do with marketing. Apple has a great marketing strategy, and before the awesome displays of the (new) ipad and the MBP, they had nothing special to differentiate them from everyone else (in fact stealing features and calling them their own).
> I'm glad your mom is using an iPad. I'm sure if we exchanged it for a win8 (winRT/metro) tab, she would use it just the same after the initial "system shock" of switching eco-systems.
> My mom wants an android tablet to use for content consumption, But what does that have to do with anything? Our mother's don't represent the general public, niether do we.
> 
> I was asking out of curiosity, yet you respond with sarcasm?
> *Yeah, let me dismiss your reality and substitute my own:*
> (BTW, you just might want to read the article)
> 
> What I don't get, is MS is finally following a similar path that apple used to get them where they are now, but it's just not good enough
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> Personally, I wish they left well enough alone. It's too simple, but that's part of the reason why metro is perfect for a tablet.


Mythbusters.









Surface looks awesome!


----------



## Georgevonfrank

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahhell*
> 
> Seems legit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My cousin's brother's sister's neighbor's daughter's son says you are wrong.


You could of just said your cousin's sister's neighbor's grandson


----------



## MakubeX

The Surface looks great and I'm looking forward to it, but damn that was one bias article.


----------



## Tehrawk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Affinity*
> 
> Let me clarify, Windows hardware track record as well as Windows mobile track record. So no, the statement isn't as ridiculous as you would like to believe. I hope they do well I really do for I have no angst against Windows.


Heeeeeey. I love my Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback flightstick. Plus they have made some awesome mice and keyboards, Intellimouse for example. Sure the 360 was prone to failure, which rightfully so, Microsoft took the blame for. But this was more so to do with regulations than any great failure on their part. The restrictions on using leaded solder in electronics affected a great many companies. Lead free solder is prone to failure after a period of time. So this is why we seen problems with the 360 in the form of the dreaded RLOD, and in the PS3 with its YLOD. I'm not saying this because I am a fanboy of the 360 or Microsoft. But it was bad timing with the restrictions on leaded solder, and the release of the console. Since then people have figured out how to work with lead free solder better. Though it still sucks IMO.


----------



## bogey1337

Come to think of it, the intellimouse is awesome. Anyways, the initial feedback on the surface is pretty good. The views on the surface ad and the initial media reaction is a testament to that. MS better not fumble on this one.


----------



## Bologna

Quote:


> The Microsoft Surface just made the MacBook Air and the iPad look obsolete? Really? It would be an insane thing to say that an un-launched product with no release date, no price, no real app support, and which Microsoft was clearly afraid to let journalists actually play with, would harm one of those Apple products. Gizmodo is saying it will render both obsolete.


http://massivegreatness.com/apple-sucks-because-we-have-no-access

Don't forget battery life.


----------



## OCScrub

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> I know him too, he told me different












E: It does seem like the Surface tablet will be much more capable than current tablets. However, saying that it will render iPad and macbook obsolete seems a little bit disingenuous.


----------



## Tiger S.

If you thought there was a patent war before. It's on.


----------



## Affinity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> It sure looks like they're showing me the product and features, without actually explaining what they needed to do to get that feature to work on their product.
> It has nothing to do with R&D. This is a fallacy that I'm tired of seeing, MS has invested just as much time and money (if not more) into R & D. It has everything to do with marketing. Apple has a great marketing strategy, and before the awesome displays of the (new) ipad and the MBP, they had nothing special to differentiate them from everyone else (in fact stealing features and calling them their own).


Yea, I'm sure it's all great marketing.


----------



## OmegaNemesis28

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Affinity*
> 
> Yea, I'm sure it's all great marketing.


It pretty much is.

The iPod and iPad lines were nothing new.
There were HUNDREDS of MP3 players and there were plenty of tablets before the iPad.

What separated the iPod from the other MP3 players? Almost nothing other than how it looked, and actually had damn bad software.
Marketing carried the iPod, and the Apple brand became something that people are willing to pay hundreds of dollars extra for, with nothing in return.

The iPad? Plenty of tablets before that, during it, and now after that are arguably better. It also did nothing different, it is a glorified oversized iPhone. Not that it's a bad product, but again, the marketing is what makes it stand out above the rest. Alot of people still don't understand what Android is, what it means for their devices, and the differentiation between that and the iPad.

Don't get me going on Macbook hardware. Forget OSX, the actual laptops themselves. All marketing fueled baby!


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Georgevonfrank*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ahhell*
> 
> Seems legit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My cousin's brother's sister's neighbor's daughter's son says you are wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> You could of just said your cousin's sister's neighbor's grandson
Click to expand...

Isn't your cousin's sister your cousin as well? So it would be your cousin's neighbor's grandson.

We could further condense it by saying "CoNeGraSo told me so."


----------



## Georgevonfrank

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaClownie*
> 
> Isn't your cousin's sister your cousin as well? So it would be your cousin's neighbor's grandson.
> We could further condense it by saying "CoNeGraSo told me so."


O ya forgot about that








That just seems like you are on a condensing rampage.


----------



## Affinity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28*
> 
> It pretty much is.
> The iPod and iPad lines were nothing new.


The iPod was nothing new. But what did they do different on it? They made you want to use it. You might not like iTunes but it drove the success of it. Now you have an easy way to purchase your media and manage it on your device. You also got an easy interface, built-in hard drive, and eventually the scroll wheel. No longer are the days of hitting the up and down arrow to find your music. The product was not forgotten after it was released like with most products but it kept getting refined and was a pleasure to use. IMO of course.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28*
> What separated the iPod from the other MP3 players? Almost nothing other than how it looked, and actually had damn bad software.


I can't speak for all MP3 players but the majority were junk. I've owned the Archos 604 as well as the Zune. You want to talk about bad software? Lets not forget the lack of firmware updates, software updates, or any of those important matters. The Zune was garbage and the market dictated its fate along with the rest of the competition. Sure marketing helps sell, but good products and good service keep your customers coming back for more and recommending it to others.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28*
> Marketing carried the iPod, and the Apple brand became something that people are willing to pay hundreds of dollars extra for, with nothing in return.
> The iPad? Plenty of tablets before that, during it, and now after that are arguably better. It also did nothing different, it is a glorified oversized iPhone. Not that it's a bad product, but again, the marketing is what makes it stand out above the rest. Alot of people still don't understand what Android is, what it means for their devices, and the differentiation between that and the iPad.
> Don't get me going on Macbook hardware. Forget OSX, the actual laptops themselves. All marketing fueled baby!


Lets see, what other tablet has a better display, more refined OS, better market place, and better resale value?



Definitely no innovation here or thinking outside of the assumed tablet paradigm







If Apple is indeed all marketing, everyone else is all copying









You may not like it, which is fine, but you probably wouldn't ever consider owning a tablet today were it not for it. As for the Macbook, most people love it for the trackpad itself and if you've ever used one for any prolonged period of time, you would understand why. It's lightyears ahead of anything else out there. That's just one of the reasons aside from OSX that I enjoy it. At the end of the day, what feels good is your experience and connection with your device, not some spec number, and Apple definitely understands that.


----------



## tedman

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Affinity*
> 
> The iPod was nothing new. But what did they do different on it? They made you want to use it. You might not like iTunes but it drove the success of it. Now you have an easy way to purchase your media and manage it on your device. You also got an easy interface, built-in hard drive, and eventually the scroll wheel. No longer are the days of hitting the up and down arrow to find your music. The product was not forgotten after it was released like with most products but it kept getting refined and was a pleasure to use. IMO of course.
> I can't speak for all MP3 players but the majority were junk. I've owned the Archos 604 as well as the Zune. You want to talk about bad software? Lets not forget the lack of firmware updates, software updates, or any of those important matters. The Zune was garbage and the market dictated its fate along with the rest of the competition. Sure marketing helps sell, but good products and good service keep your customers coming back for more and recommending it to others.
> Lets see, what other tablet has a better display, more refined OS, better market place, and better resale value?
> 
> Definitely no innovation here or thinking outside of the assumed tablet paradigm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Apple is indeed all marketing, everyone else is all copying
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You may not like it, which is fine, but you probably wouldn't ever consider owning a tablet today were it not for it. As for the Macbook, most people love it for the trackpad itself and if you've ever used one for any prolonged period of time, you would understand why. It's lightyears ahead of anything else out there. That's just one of the reasons aside from OSX that I enjoy it. At the end of the day, what feels good is your experience and connection with your device, not some spec number, and Apple definitely understands that.


QFT!


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28*
> 
> It pretty much is.
> The iPod and iPad lines were nothing new.
> There were HUNDREDS of MP3 players and there were plenty of tablets before the iPad.
> What separated the iPod from the other MP3 players? Almost nothing other than how it looked, and actually had damn bad software.
> Marketing carried the iPod, and the Apple brand became something that people are willing to pay hundreds of dollars extra for, with nothing in return.
> The iPad? Plenty of tablets before that, during it, and now after that are arguably better. It also did nothing different, it is a glorified oversized iPhone. Not that it's a bad product, but again, the marketing is what makes it stand out above the rest. Alot of people still don't understand what Android is, what it means for their devices, and the differentiation between that and the iPad.
> Don't get me going on Macbook hardware. Forget OSX, the actual laptops themselves. All marketing fueled baby!


Wrong.

iTunes carried the iPod, if you got an iPod, you used iTunes and that was the *only* decent online music service at the time; other MP3 players were a lot less...well, usable than the iPod was.

It's a different story now, but give credit where credit is due.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Affinity*
> 
> Lets see, what other tablet has a better display, more refined OS, better market place, and better resale value?
> 
> Definitely no innovation here or thinking outside of the assumed tablet paradigm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Apple is indeed all marketing, everyone else is all copying
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You may not like it, which is fine, but you probably wouldn't ever consider owning a tablet today were it not for it. As for the Macbook, most people love it for the trackpad itself and if you've ever used one for any prolonged period of time, you would understand why. It's lightyears ahead of anything else out there. That's just one of the reasons aside from OSX that I enjoy it. At the end of the day, what feels good is your experience and connection with your device, not some spec number, and Apple definitely understands that.












But as for credit, Apple _did_ actually think of the iPad before the iPod; they wanted the iPod first though.

As for Surface making the Macbook Air and iPad look obsolete....Yeahnah. ASUS has been doing the whole tablet-netbook thing for ages with its Transformer tablets (And the Padfone which is one further), I just don't think having a full OS is necessary on a tablet.


----------



## newphase

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kiwiasian*
> 
> Someone please explain to me why all of you hail the product like a godsend but hate on the iPad
> To me they're both the same--expensive, difficult to use, and runs a cut-down OS
> I'll take it for $200 and nothing more. Unfortunately, it seems to be selling for 4x that.


Because the iPad (great as it is) is stolen tech and is, basically, an expensive toy - Surface... on the other hand... has real-world applications. (Interactive coffee-table etc etc ad-infinitum). Surface has potential whereas the iPad does not (3 releases in less than 3 yrs? Surface is a piece of hardware that will slowly but surely be integrated into MANY pieces of hardware from Refrigerators to Cars. iPad is a cash-cow ripoff.

Not hating on the iPad... just wise to Apples marketing strategy of many many iterations of essentially the same product over an undisclosed period of time - rip the CASH from the (L)users... "Must upgrade...".

Also... I have been watching the development of Surface for over 6 years... Y'know... that time when Gates showed us the Tablet... then Apple ripped it?

Apple do not innovate... as their god (spit) said, when he paraphrased, "good artists paint... great Artists COPY".

Surface is not specific to Win8 - it was in develepment BEFORE Vista, therefore, I could quite easily see this going Open like the Kinect- open to hackers and devs to implement the HARDWARE as they see fit for ever more innovative uses.

Next question?


----------



## Affinity

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newphase*
> 
> Also... I have been watching the development of Surface for over 6 years... Y'know... that time when Gates showed us the Tablet... then Apple ripped it?
> Apple do not innovate... as their god (spit) said, when he paraphrased, "good artists paint... great Artists COPY".


I believe that was "Good artists copy, great artist steal."

The quote comes from Picasso who was a great artist but you know his work when you see it. It's one thing to take the best ideas and make them your own, it's another to completely rip it off is what it comes down to.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> But as for credit, Apple _did_ actually think of the iPad before the iPod; they wanted the iPod first though.
> As for Surface making the Macbook Air and iPad look obsolete....Yeahnah. ASUS has been doing the whole tablet-netbook thing for ages with its Transformer tablets (And the Padfone which is one further), I just don't think having a full OS is necessary on a tablet.


They were developing the iPad before the iPhone actually.

Having a full OS is not necessary on a tablet which is why it never worked before. But this one is a bit different being that it's a full OS being developed more so with the mobile application in mind. If it has indeed been in development for the past 6 years like mentioned, I can't say I'm impressed. But we will see.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newphase*
> 
> Because the iPad (great as it is) is stolen tech and is, basically, an expensive toy - Surface... on the other hand... has real-world applications. (Interactive coffee-table etc etc ad-infinitum). Surface has potential whereas the iPad does not (3 releases in less than 3 yrs?. Surface is a piece of hardware that will slowly but surely be integrated into MANY pieces of hardware from Refrigerators to Cars. iPad is a cash-cow ripoff.
> Not hating on the iPad... just wise to Apples marketing strategy of many many iterations of essentially the same product over an undisclosed period of time - rip the CASH from the (L)users... "Must upgrade...".
> Also... I have been watching the development of Surface for over 6 years... Y'know... that time when Gates showed us the Tablet... then Apple ripped it?
> Apple do not innovate... as their god (spit) said, when he paraphrased, "good artists paint... great Artists COPY".
> Surface is not specific to Win8 - it was in develepment BEFORE Vista, therefore, I could quite easily see this going Open like the Kinect- open to hackers and devs to implement the HARDWARE as they see fit for ever more innovative uses.
> Next question?


im not going to argue that the ipad and etc were revolutionary. im not an apple or ms fanboy, im a linux proponent. but this is clearly not revolutionary. i mean i have yet to to see someone explain how this is superior to current x86 tablets like the samsung series 7, which also has an i5. all ive heard so far that is that the samsung is "too bulky and heavy." it weighs two pounds. that article is full of hubris and not much else.

why haven't x86 tablets taken off so far? mostly probably because people only care to do casual things on tablets and like the price (and maybe battery life) of arm tablets. and honestly i have to agree with them. i mean who wants to do serious stuff on an imprecise, relatively tiny touch screen? heck, netbooks failed too


----------



## DaClownie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *newphase*
> 
> Because the iPad (great as it is) is stolen tech and is, basically, an expensive toy - Surface... on the other hand... has real-world applications. (Interactive coffee-table etc etc ad-infinitum). Surface has potential whereas the iPad does not (3 releases in less than 3 yrs?. Surface is a piece of hardware that will slowly but surely be integrated into MANY pieces of hardware from Refrigerators to Cars. iPad is a cash-cow ripoff.
> Not hating on the iPad... just wise to Apples marketing strategy of many many iterations of essentially the same product over an undisclosed period of time - rip the CASH from the (L)users... "Must upgrade...".
> Also... I have been watching the development of Surface for over 6 years... Y'know... that time when Gates showed us the Tablet... then Apple ripped it?
> Apple do not innovate... as their god (spit) said, when he paraphrased, "good artists paint... great Artists COPY".
> Surface is not specific to Win8 - it was in develepment BEFORE Vista, therefore, I could quite easily see this going Open like the Kinect- open to hackers and devs to implement the HARDWARE as they see fit for ever more innovative uses.
> Next question?
> 
> 
> 
> im not going to argue that the ipad and etc were revolutionary. im not an apple or ms fanboy, im a linux proponent. but this is clearly not revolutionary. i mean i have yet to to see someone explain how this is superior to current x86 tablets like the samsung series 7, which also has an i5. all ive heard so far that is that the samsung is "too bulky and heavy." it weighs two pounds. that article is full of hubris and not much else.
> 
> why haven't x86 tablets taken off so far? mostly probably because people only care to do casual things on tablets and like the price (and maybe battery life) of arm tablets. and honestly i have to agree with them. i mean who wants to do serious stuff on an imprecise, relatively tiny touch screen? heck, netbooks failed too
Click to expand...

With a wacom digitizer built into the screen, it'll be quite precise, actually.

I do see your point on the rest, however.


----------



## Rubers




----------



## 06tb06

Glad to see what Microsoft engineers have been doing. Wonder if this could be considered a Fusion product? The best of both worlds, a tablet and ultrabook design in one.


----------



## bogey1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *06tb06*
> 
> Glad to see what Microsoft engineers have been doing. Wonder if this could be considered a Fusion product? The best of both worlds, a tablet and ultrabook design in one.


Better yet, put in a "Fusion" APU inside.







Kinda makes me wonder why we're not seeing any trinity on these hybrids. Slightly off topic, does anyone know the power consumption of the weakest lowe voltage trinity apu? Like how many watts? Anyone?


----------



## newphase

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> im not going to argue that the ipad and etc were revolutionary. im not an apple or ms fanboy, im a linux proponent. but this is clearly not revolutionary. i mean i have yet to to see someone explain how this is superior to current x86 tablets like the samsung series 7, which also has an i5. all ive heard so far that is that the samsung is "too bulky and heavy." it weighs two pounds. that article is full of hubris and not much else.
> why haven't x86 tablets taken off so far? mostly probably because people only care to do casual things on tablets and like the price (and maybe battery life) of arm tablets. and honestly i have to agree with them. i mean who wants to do serious stuff on an imprecise, relatively tiny touch screen? heck, netbooks failed too


Forget tablets... Surface is about something entirely different to such simple toys as tablets.

This is HARDWARE - like kinect... I would be amazed if MS did not open this to devs (like they did with kinect).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> im not going to argue that the ipad and etc were revolutionary. im not an apple or ms fanboy, im a linux proponent. but this is clearly not revolutionary. i mean i have yet to to see someone explain how this is superior to current x86 tablets like the samsung series 7, which also has an i5. all ive heard so far that is that the samsung is "too bulky and heavy." it weighs two pounds. that article is full of hubris and not much else.
> why haven't x86 tablets taken off so far? mostly probably because people only care to do casual things on tablets and like the price (and maybe battery life) of arm tablets. and honestly i have to agree with them. i mean who wants to do serious stuff on an imprecise, relatively tiny touch screen? heck, netbooks failed too


Because tablets are basically a rip-off and consumer test for various "features".

Can you not see the potential of Surface (FORGET WINDOWS THIS IS SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT - THIS IS HARDWARE)...

If you even have a PASSING interest in tech... you would notice all those current-gen robotics/AI experiments that utilise the KINECT... a piece of HARDWARE from microsloth.

THIS is how it will go with surface... MS will LICENSE the devs to use their kit to make new and innovative ways to interact with your digital environment.

Sheesh! I am a linux devotee but I CAN SEE and respect innovation.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Affinity*
> 
> They were developing the iPad before the iPhone actually.
> Having a full OS is not necessary on a tablet which is why it never worked before. But this one is a bit different being that it's a full OS being developed more so with the mobile application in mind. If it has indeed been in development for the past 6 years like mentioned, I can't say I'm impressed. But we will see.


They had the idea of the iPad/a tablet, then decided to do the iPod and eventually iPhone first as it made more sense at the time iirc.

Fun fact: The iPhone originally had a click wheel like the iPod but they canned that for obvious reasons.


----------



## Volvo

Microsoft launches the Tablet PC, no one gives a hoot.
Apple announces the iPad, everyone goes wild and preaches to Jobs.
Microsoft launches the Surface, and everyone goes into a frenzy comparing this to the iPad or saying how it copies the idea of the iPad.

This world is kinda weird.


----------



## leo5111

apple is the pablo picaso of bull artists they rip off other people ideas then try and act like they invented it


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Volvo*
> 
> Microsoft launches the Tablet PC, no one gives a hoot.
> Apple announces the iPad, everyone goes wild and preaches to Jobs.
> Microsoft launches the Surface, and everyone goes into a frenzy comparing this to the iPad or saying how it copies the idea of the iPad.
> This world is kinda weird.


Apple got it right for consumers, and now Microsoft is copying them. Microsofts tablet was only really good for business truth be told.


----------



## john55576

MS had thier 15 min of fame back in the 90s with "Start Me Up" which was nothing more than a remap of the gui stolen from??? Apple, Who stole it from Xerox. If it wasn't for the marketing plan and coinciding release with the Rolling Stones: Voodoo Lounge, Win95 would have just been Win2000 Five years easrly. Marketing wins products profits assuming the product exist to be sold.


----------



## Brutuz

While those GUI ideas were stolen, they were changed heaps from either makers.

Xerox's original GUI didn't let you have separate windows overlap; Apples did iirc.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *newphase*
> 
> Because tablets are basically a rip-off and consumer test for various "features".
> Can you not see the potential of Surface (FORGET WINDOWS THIS IS SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT - THIS IS HARDWARE)...
> If you even have a PASSING interest in tech... you would notice all those current-gen robotics/AI experiments that utilise the KINECT... a piece of HARDWARE from microsloth.
> THIS is how it will go with surface... MS will LICENSE the devs to use their kit to make new and innovative ways to interact with your digital environment.
> Sheesh! I am a linux devotee but I CAN SEE and respect innovation.


Youre forgetting that there are already x86 tablets out there. This is just a revision of an existing product. Sure the implementation of windows 8 allowing you to use both touch and traditional interfaces is kind of cool though


----------



## mountains

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> While those GUI ideas were stolen, they were changed heaps from either makers.
> Xerox's original GUI didn't let you have separate windows overlap; Apples did iirc.


Apple actually thought that Xerox's GUI did have overlapping windows, so their engineers worked their asses off to catch up. Then one day when Xerox's team went in too look at Apple's OS, they were amazed that Apple had overlapping windows and remarked that they never solved that problem themselves.


----------



## F1ynn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Affinity*
> 
> I'm sure this has already been posted but epic fail is worth posting again.
> 
> 
> 
> Cool idea in theory but given Microsoft's track record, this thing will make itself obsolete.


ya, I wont bet on anything until its release and review, whats funny to me is that the guy had a backup one like they knew they had problems, and if your gonna spend 700-1000$ on one of these i would want them to work. cool concept though


----------



## cavallino

To be fair we are a ways away from release so it is a bit early to expect it to be glitch free.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## brasco

Will be getting one, been holding off for ages to get a tablet, nearly pulled the trigger on an ASUS transformer, thankfully didn't!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cavallino*
> 
> To be fair we are a ways away from release so it is a bit early to expect it to be glitch free.


Happens all the time


----------



## drbaltazar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DaClownie*
> 
> I can't believe your translator translated watchemacalit for you. I'm impressed.
> This thing is going to be quite awesome. It's essentially an ultra portable ultrabook. Perfect for being lazy on the couch, typing up notes in a class, or word processing like a pro when it's needed. Can't wait to see whats going on with the mech keyboard though


Maybe I misunderstood ms rep when they said this was for winrt and win pro
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Proxyep*
> 
> I wonder how app sideloading is gonna work.
> Like if anyone has ever used windows 7 the only way to get apps (after the jailbreak was taken down) was through the official app store (as far as I'm aware) in a bid to reduce piracy
> Now I am assuming that windows 8 is the same? Then how does one install one's own apps? Does that mean the lockdown on windows 8 is removed or is it gonna be there? Im really confused, 700-800 for a i5 slate could be good, but what about i3 and AMD parts shipping in a slate? I wonder how much would that cost.


I hope ms stop the trash idea of WP .want to update connect phone to computer?what I left android for this idea!but the WP is butter smooth.touch screen ?hell ya way better then android.even if this is uber ms have to be twice better then android ,why ?because most are already fully geared .1k for an Intel w8 surface .me I sure can't afford this.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chmodlabs*
> 
> Sorry, microsoft surface is a complete joke. I have a friend who worked with on the windows 8, windows phone, an microsoft surface dev team, he basically said it was a bunch of people convincing each other they were doing game changing stuff and it was all crap. Sorry, but windows 8 is going to fail, and all attempts of a microsoft slate device have laughable resemblance to the apple ipad and didn't even work at the tech demo, not to mention the hiddeous color schemes used with all things past windows 7.
> I love windows 7, but the next generation of windows stuff is going to be horrible.
> - chmodlabs


if there wasn't a better alternative to live tile I would disagree with you.sadly there is a better solution it is called leap.

Good thing this is for dev only because they have a lot of work to make it a consumer product.could any speak to ms and tell them to lower all the various delay set at the annoying 400 ms and set it to 80 ms instead on all os yes including w 7.8 !ty!


----------



## j3st3r

I'm actually pretty excited for this. I don't own any tablets but I do own both Mac and PC electronics. So happy we can see something besides lag-tastic 1992 design Android devices all running 193194814 different versions of pretty much the same OS. Microsoft will do much better with fragmentation as Apple does and their software is on par with Apple as far as responsiveness.

I am so happy - finally REAL competition for Apple.


----------



## xJavontax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OmegaNemesis28*
> 
> It pretty much is.
> The iPod and iPad lines were nothing new.
> There were HUNDREDS of MP3 players and there were plenty of tablets before the iPad.
> What separated the iPod from the other MP3 players? Almost nothing other than how it looked, and actually had damn bad software.
> Marketing carried the iPod, and the Apple brand became something that people are willing to pay hundreds of dollars extra for, with nothing in return.
> The iPad? Plenty of tablets before that, during it, and now after that are arguably better. It also did nothing different, it is a glorified oversized iPhone. Not that it's a bad product, but again, the marketing is what makes it stand out above the rest. Alot of people still don't understand what Android is, what it means for their devices, and the differentiation between that and the iPad.
> Don't get me going on Macbook hardware. Forget OSX, the actual laptops themselves. All marketing fueled baby!


I don't think the iPod touch took off at first. I remember it being huge during it's second generation when the app store was introduced to it and stuff like that.

Remember everyone, the main reason Apple is so successful is because of it's *third party support.* They have tons of it. (Zune and WP7 had almost none in their early days, Xbox did though.) That and the fact that they know how to market their devices/software. These are crucial to their success, I think everyone would agree. And Microsoft's marketing isn't really what I'd call spectacular. Yes, their Xbox division does a fantastic job, but all the others aren't really that good at it. I love my Zune HD (I also own an iPod touch 2G), but a lot of my friends had no idea what it was due to the poor marketing. Same goes for WP7, they did have a huge campaign for it, but not many people knew what it was and they were late to the party (they're late to the tablet party as well).

If their timing was a bit better I'd say Microsoft would be doing a lot better at this type of stuff. Timing was the reason the Xbox 360 was so successful after all.

Oh and WM6.1 and everything prior to that probably left a bad taste in everyone's mouth (I _HATED_ my Samsung Jack), which is probably played a role in why WP7 (despite being awesome) isn't so popular.


----------



## Darkpriest667

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j3st3r*
> 
> I'm actually pretty excited for this. I don't own any tablets but I do own both Mac and PC electronics. So happy we can see something besides lag-tastic 1992 design Android devices all running 193194814 different versions of pretty much the same OS. Microsoft will do much better with fragmentation as Apple does and their software is on par with Apple as far as responsiveness.
> I am so happy - finally REAL competition for Apple.


I do happen to agree though. Android is not very good competition for apple as they run about 6 different OS's and are spread across a dozen companies. There is no uniformity. Its one of the major problems Ive had with my android phone for so long.


----------



## xJavontax

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Darkpriest667*
> 
> I do happen to agree though. *Android is not very good competition for apple as they run about 6 different OS's and are spread across a dozen companies.* There is no uniformity. Its one of the major problems Ive had with my android phone for so long.


It's not that, it's the fragmentation. If Google made hardware restrictions for Android, manufacturers wouldn't be installing it on everything from crap hardware to godly hardware. Some apps aren't compatible with some hardware/OS versions, etc. It's a freaking mess and it's too late to fix it.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xJavontax*
> 
> It's not that, it's the fragmentation. If Google made hardware restrictions for Android, manufacturers wouldn't be installing it on everything from crap hardware to godly hardware. Some apps aren't compatible with some hardware/OS versions, etc. It's a freaking mess and it's too late to fix it.


Its not just the fragmrntation. Windows is fragmented too. Its all the carrier restrictions and crapware that ruins it. That said, you have to be an ideologue to assume that ms is going to dominate arm platforms in the near future, considering their current market share


----------



## UnAimed

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> Wrong.
> iTunes carried the iPod, if you got an iPod, you used iTunes and that was the *only* decent online music service at the time; other MP3 players were a lot less...well, usable than the iPod was.
> It's a different story now, but give credit where credit is due.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But as for credit, Apple _did_ actually think of the iPad before the iPod; they wanted the iPod first though.
> As for Surface making the Macbook Air and iPad look obsolete....Yeahnah. ASUS has been doing the whole tablet-netbook thing for ages with its Transformer tablets (And the Padfone which is one further), I just don't think having a full OS is necessary on a tablet.


And apples tablets from the 1980s/1990s
BIC








Cadillac"








Apple Newton









The MS surface is a nice tablet but it's not a new idea, Asus sells windows tablets similarly specced for example and I still have my Viliv S5 running windows 7 which has always been great but just a little bit thick.

I don't see any benefits in the RT version but the Pro version gets me interested so I might get that depending on the price.


----------

