# [Sponsored] Mionix Castor Gaming Mouse review - by Ino



## zeflow

Very nice review!


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## popups

Instead of spending money on the fancy packaging, they should have gave you a couple of extra mouse feet.


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## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I feel like this section of the reviews gets pointless with 3310 mice, because they all perform equally well. Minor differences in FW aside which I can't prove or disprove anyway.


yes we can







blah i really need to continue writing my guide

from that picture i can tell
there's no finalmouse-style mcu smoothing
sensor updates motion registers 7200 times/second (?? 3310 is supposed to be 6500max. maybe new srom?)

if you do a slower swipe (~1m/s max) and see these peaks and features similar to this:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1554228/visualizing-smoothing-in-mousetester/10#post_24192901
that means there are framerate transitions and sensor smoothing causes those blips.

i'm curious because woll3 mentioned a few months back that there are new sroms for the 9800 family sensors with less smoothing.


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## detto87

Thanks for the review.
Strange that you prefer the ZA11 shape which is even thinner than the Castor.
But I mentioned prior to release that the thumb molds are a stupid thing to do. Flat sides is best.
An office Logitech RX250 is miles more comfortable and versatile than most so-called ergonomic mice.


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## Zenith Phantasm

How is the click latency compared to Logitech mice with the double click setting set on lowest (fastest)?


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## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> yes we can
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blah i really need to continue writing my guide
> 
> from that picture i can tell
> there's no finalmouse-style mcu smoothing
> sensor updates motion registers 7200 times/second (?? 3310 is supposed to be 6500max. maybe new srom?)
> 
> if you do a slower swipe (~1m/s max) and see these peaks and features similar to this:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1554228/visualizing-smoothing-in-mousetester/10#post_24192901
> that means there are framerate transitions and sensor smoothing causes those blips.
> 
> i'm curious because woll3 mentioned a few months back that there are new sroms for the 9800 family sensors with less smoothing.


Go on and finish the guide so I can tell too








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *detto87*
> 
> Thanks for the review.
> Strange that you prefer the ZA11 shape which is even thinner than the Castor.
> But I mentioned prior to release that the thumb molds are a stupid thing to do. Flat sides is best.
> An office Logitech RX250 is miles more comfortable and versatile than most so-called ergonomic mice.


Yeah, I feel that with a flat side the Castor would win me over because then it would have a better angle of force and the width where I grip would be around 65-66 mm.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> How is the click latency compared to Logitech mice with the double click setting set on lowest (fastest)?


Is there a known correlation between the double click setting and general click latency? I might do the bump test today against the G303.


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## Ino.

Click delay compared to a G303 seems to be 11 ms

A is Castor, B is G303


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## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Is there a known correlation between the double click setting and general click latency? I might do the bump test today against the G303.


sort of. depends on the algorithm. for the naive algorithm/implementation, the minimum double click time is the latency for a click. that's why so many mice have >5ms click latencies
this is how it should be done: http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/98644/debouncing-by-ignoring-data
you can increase the double click time arbitrarily without introducing any latency for button presses.


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## uaokkkkkkkk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Click delay compared to a G303 seems to be 11 ms
> 
> A is Castor, B is G303


Hahahahahahahahah It's even higher then I expected.







Not even gonna bother testing now.


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## Sencha

Great review. I was looking to pick up either this or the final mouse. Think I may go for the FM as the weight being so light seems like it would feel great. This mouse isn't really offering much unique.


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## Paradigm84

Nice review!


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## Snakesoul

Nice review Ino. Keep up the good work


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## ramraze

Thanks for the review. How would you, or anyone else, comment on the stability of polling rate. In the FM review you mentioned you prefer 500 hz. How stable is it on the Castor? Do you feel like you need to crawl back to 500 hz? I know 3310 doesn't really suffer from this, but on older 3090s 1000 hz can be slightly unstable at times.

How 'smooth' does it feel doing faster amd slower movements?
Compared to other 3310 offerings, Does the Castor have a more responsive cursor feel? Anything better than standard 3090 is good enough for me, though. However, I feel that stable polling rate helps much more in


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## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Thanks for the review. How would you, or anyone else, comment on the stability of polling rate. In the FM review you mentioned you prefer 500 hz. How stable is it on the Castor? Do you feel like you need to crawl back to 500 hz? I know 3310 doesn't really suffer from this, but on older 3090s 1000 hz can be slightly unstable at times.
> 
> How 'smooth' does it feel doing faster amd slower movements?
> Compared to other 3310 offerings, Does the Castor have a more responsive cursor feel? Anything better than standard 3090 is good enough for me, though. However, I feel that stable polling rate helps much more in


Polling is stable, I think I only ever said I preferred 500 Hz on older Zowies before they switched to the 3310 with the internal oscillators.

I feel the cursor indeed is very responsive, can't say though if it is "better" than Zowies or other implementations.


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## Zenith Phantasm

;w; Looks like the Castor is no longer an option for me until they fix the horrible click latency.


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## ramraze

Horrible? Sounds pretty standard tbh. Thanks, Ino.
Nothing that a FW can't change, though.


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## Ihateallmice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> ;w; Looks like the Castor is no longer an option for me until they fix the horrible click latency.


lol


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## woll3

I am still wondering where the signature of the LaView CEO can be found, huehuehue.

Quote:



> Originally Posted by *qsxcv*
> 
> sort of. depends on the algorithm. for the naive algorithm/implementation, the minimum double click time is the latency for a click. that's why so many mice have >5ms click latencies
> this is how it should be done: http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/98644/debouncing-by-ignoring-data
> you can increase the double click time arbitrarily without introducing any latency for button presses.


i have only skipped through it, but if it is making 10010111100 into 1111111111100 doesnt sound like a good solution imo.


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## SmashTV

The potato thumb drawing made this review that much better.


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## popups

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> Click delay compared to a G303 seems to be 11 ms


http://www.overclock.net/t/1541751/logitech-g303-daedalus-apex-gaming-mouse/2420#post_23851066

That seems right to me. From my experience at least.


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## ranseed

how are people even getting below 140ms consistently on the human reaction test?


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## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Horrible? Sounds pretty standard tbh. Thanks, Ino.
> Nothing that a FW can't change, though.


Logitech is my standards C;
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ranseed*
> 
> how are people even getting below 140ms consistently on the human reaction test?


Good monitor+good mouse+Windows 7+Flip Queue Size 0+Genetics


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## qsxcv

^most important thing is turn off aero. i.e. use windows 7.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ranseed*
> 
> how are people even getting below 140ms consistently on the human reaction test?


i can continuously adjust my reaction time from 150-200 by changing how much i concentrate









probably most people can get as low as ~160 as well with a bit of practice.


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## Zenith Phantasm

Disabling DWM=best


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## Scrimstar

Ino, did you have this thumb issue with the Avior 7000?


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## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> Ino, did you have this thumb issue with the Avior 7000?


I never had the Avior, so I can't say. But seeing that Metal seems to have the same gripe with the Castor while being perfectly happy with the Avior I'd say the sides are notably different.


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## qsxcv

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *woll3*
> 
> i have only skipped through it, but if it is making 10010111100 into 1111111111100 doesnt sound like a good solution imo.


if 1 is not pressed and 0 is pressed, it would turn
111111111011010100000000000000000010101111111111111111111
to
111111111000000000000000000000000011111111111111111111111

as mentioned in the link, the only danger would be noise... maybe some esd or something happens and the input signal looks like
1111111111111111101111111111111111111
then the mouse would register that as a click.

but probably this can be alleviated by triggering on the second transition, since it's unlikely to have consecutive noise events in a short span
i.e.
111111111011010100000000000000000010101111111111111111111
becomes
111111111111000000000000000000000000111111111111111111111


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## Scrimstar

The more I look at it the more I feel disappointed that it's an inferior left side version of the rival


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## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Scrimstar*
> 
> The more I look at it the more I feel disappointed that it's an inferior left side version of the rival


To be fair the material while looking the same certainly feels better on the Castor. And overall the Castor has a better shape imo.


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## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> To be fair the material while looking the same certainly feels better on the Castor. And overall the Castor has a better shape imo.


How easy is it to grip the right side, vertically and horizontally (if that makes sense)?


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## a_ak57

Ino, how large is the butt of the mouse? Like is there anything you'd compare it to in terms of amount of palm contact or just some general descriptors? I have a sort of palm/claw hybrid and I like mice where the back kinda "digs" into my palm but still allows a claw (G9 is close to ideal for me since the back is really stubby/wide and provides good contact in the palm, but the mouse is still pretty short and low in the front so I can claw my fingers). I prefer the ZA style to FK as well.


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## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> How easy is it to grip the right side, vertically and horizontally (if that makes sense)?


I think the grip is pretty good, however with completely dry fingers they would slip a bit initially. Not much, and after a bit of gaming I didn't have any slipping anymore. As soon as there is just slight moisture you're fine.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> Ino, how large is the butt of the mouse? Like is there anything you'd compare it to in terms of amount of palm contact or just some general descriptors? I have a sort of palm/claw hybrid and I like mice where the back kinda "digs" into my palm but still allows a claw (G9 is close to ideal for me since the back is really stubby/wide and provides good contact in the palm, but the mouse is still pretty short and low in the front so I can claw my fingers). I prefer the ZA style to FK as well.


The butt is wide, however I don't recall a mouse that is similar. I never had the G9 myself and only held it in hand once, can't really compare. It digs in the palm of my hand pretty good though, I tried to show that with the underside shots of the grips.


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## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> I think the grip is pretty good, however with completely dry fingers they would slip a bit initially. Not much, and after a bit of gaming I didn't have any slipping anymore. As soon as there is just slight moisture you're fine.
> The butt is wide, however I don't recall a mouse that is similar. I never had the G9 myself and only held it in hand once, can't really compare. It digs in the palm of my hand pretty good though, I tried to show that with the underside shots of the grips.


Is the butt like Savu?


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## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Is the butt like Savu?


I sold my Savu 2 years ago, but from memory it feels wider than the Savu did.


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## Ihateallmice

Savu's butt is like half a cm higher than Castor, but Castor is probably half a cm wider.


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## ramraze

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ihateallmice*
> 
> Savu's butt is like half a cm higher than Castor, but Castor is probably half a cm wider.


Thx, sounds interesting. Can you take some pics how you grip it, thx. You said you enjoyed the Castor, and besides that, the Rival. Given your nickname, what other mice did you find good to use? Just asking cause I want to know the point of reference in which you said that the Castor's shape is good. There are a lot of youtubbers throwing the words around:"I love this mouse" and " It's the best mouse I've ever used". Which can often mean nothing.
That's why I ask


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## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> There are a lot of youtubbers throwing the words around:"I love this mouse" and " It's the best mouse I've ever used". Which can often mean nothing.
> That's why I ask


They say that all the time though. To me it's an objectively good mouse, you have to try the shape yourself.


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## qsxcv

hows the tracking at 10000dpi though?


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## Ihateallmice

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ramraze*
> 
> Thx, sounds interesting. Can you take some pics how you grip it, thx. You said you enjoyed the Castor, and besides that, the Rival. Given your nickname, what other mice did you find good to use? Just asking cause I want to know the point of reference in which you said that the Castor's shape is good. There are a lot of youtubbers throwing the words around:"I love this mouse" and " It's the best mouse I've ever used". Which can often mean nothing.
> That's why I ask


I have a closet filled with mice, so I'll try dig through it and do some comparison and let you know as soon as I get the time to do so. Will also include a pic if I can remember!

as for liking mice and thinking they're the best, I learned quickly that you won't find a perfect mouse and even if you find one you really like, there will definitely be someone else out there that hates it.

I just made a list in my head with things to prioritize and then try to get as many of the most important things in one mouse.

1. Shape
2. Sensor performance
3. Weight

for example these 3 things need to be above a certain level for me to even use a mouse for FPS. They don't need to be perfect, but if I constantly reach the max tracking speed like I did with G302, I will have to stop using it. The worst part about that is also that it will obviously only happen at the most crucial moments when you kill one person and quickly swipe to another target.

Same deal with shape. If my hand hurts and I get fatigued after 20 minutes of deathmatch, what's the point? It's not supposed to hurt you when you play.

Then there's the weight. This also causes a lot of fatigue, negatively impacts your accuracy and fast movement and once again can make or break the mouse. G502 was simply not useable for me due to the weight. Shape was acceptable and the sensor has no problems, but the weight broke it completely for me.

Then there's sensor position, coatings, lift-off distance, LEDs, scrollwheel, side-buttons, M1 & 2, mouse skatez, cords and a bunch of things people will have different prefences of, so it's always hard to recommend things.

Last mouse I actively used was G303 because the weight was acceptable, sensor didn't malfunction like the G302 when swiping and overall didn't cause any problems. ( I don't look for the perfect sensor or for a sensor that is going to magically make me better, but one that doesn't have bunch of accel, prediction, low max speed, etc. as long as it doesn't impact my performance in a negative way, just having it work as it should is more than acceptable.). The shape was not great, but it didn't hurt my hand either. It also provided a super stable claw-grip, despite me prefering a more palm-claw hybrid. Castor is far from perfect, but I enjoy the shape better, the sensor performs as expected and the weight feels roughly the same as the G303. Cable is also better, but coating worse. Castor's LEDs are also inferior and so are the buttons compared to G303. So while neither are perfect, I could use both to stomp people in FPS games just fine. Only reason I keep buying mice is because it's a hobby. A weird one. I'm slightly ashamed. Kappa


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## argentum

No need to be embarrassed among addicts


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## LewisASTL

I completely agree with you, the castor is a very solid mouse for an even price.
Maybe, i wish mionix could improve the coating. It's still easy to mark with fingers


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## ramraze

Posted my impressions here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1508346/new-mionix-mouse/650#post_24382421


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## cmquickfire

Does the scroll wheel offer little resistance?


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## Natskyge

Would this be a worth while upgrade from a EC1 EVO? i palm grip.


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## Sencha

Its impossible to say. You're going to have to give it a try. May as well grab an EC1-A though if you dig that shape....if looking for a change though then why not.


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## a_ak57

I haven't used an EC1 but from what I gather it's roughly around IME 3.0 size, right? If so the Castor is considerably smaller. It's also a relatively flat mouse. Doesn't mean you won't enjoy it, but if you're looking for something similar to the IME 3.0 style of mice then I wouldn't say Castor is it. As mentioned though, if you're simply wanting an upgrade in terms of sensor then the EC1-A would be it.


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## Natskyge

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *a_ak57*
> 
> I haven't used an EC1 but from what I gather it's roughly around IME 3.0 size, right? If so the Castor is considerably smaller. It's also a relatively flat mouse. Doesn't mean you won't enjoy it, but if you're looking for something similar to the IME 3.0 style of mice then I wouldn't say Castor is it. As mentioned though, if you're simply wanting an upgrade in terms of sensor then the EC1-A would be it.


I think i am going to abuse the amazon return period and try the Castor since it looks intresting, also dont the both use Avago 3310 like every god damn high end mouse apart from G502.


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## Zenith Phantasm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Natskyge*
> 
> I think i am going to abuse the amazon return period and try the Castor since it looks intresting, also dont the both use Avago 3310 like every god damn high end mouse apart from G502.


Be careful tho. Amazon sometimes ban customers who return too often.


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## aayman_farzand

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Zenith Phantasm*
> 
> Be careful tho. Amazon sometimes ban customers who return too often.


They sent me an email when I was in the phase of trying out the FM. Nothing happened after though. I buy very often and I did have a couple of returns in a short period of time.


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## Pragmatist

Just got the Mionix Castor and the package looks really good, it has a premium feel to it. So, I'm going to play with it for a couple of days and then share my opinion about it.


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## povohat

But what SQAT value does the package give?


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## solz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> *Mionix Castor*
> 
> *Buttons / Switches / Scroll Wheel*
> 
> The buttons feel really good, very light yet crisp. They are definitely lighter than the Zowie switches and second only to the G303 buttons in my opinion. Switches used are D2FC-F7N(20M) for the main buttons, side buttons and profile switch are TTC (side buttons red, profile button white). I don't know what kind of switch is used for the wheel, it's a smaller square one.


Does the left click feels & sounds diffrent to you then the right click?


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## handiman

mine does
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solz*
> 
> Does the left click feels & sounds diffrent to you then the right click?


mine does and ive tried x2


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## solz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *handiman*
> 
> mine does and ive tried x2


What do you mean ive tried x2?


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## handiman

i have returned them twice to try and get one that didn't


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## solz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *handiman*
> 
> i have returned them twice to try and get one that didn't


So you mean u returned the mice twice and now you got one that doesnt feels different or they still feel different even after you returned them twice?
Sorry i dont really get what you mean


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## handiman

hahah ya ive returned 2 mice and finally got one where both buttons felt the same. sorry if i was not clear enough.


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## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solz*
> 
> Does the left click feels & sounds diffrent to you then the right click?


It does on mine, but only slightly. Similar to most ergo mice with different leverage on left and right button.


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## solz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ino.*
> 
> It does on mine, but only slightly. Similar to most ergo mice with different leverage on left and right button.


So you would say its a normal thing? or should i return it?


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## Sencha

I've never used an Ergo mouse where the left and right are the same both in sound and how tactile they are. They have always been different due to reasons stated by Ino.


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## Ino.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *solz*
> 
> So you would say its a normal thing? or should i return it?


Depends, does it affect your gameplay or is it just something you notice when testing for it? If it is the former I'd be interested to see how different they are, if it's the latter just play with it.


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## Fixxxer86

Does anyone with very small hands (17cm) tried this mouse? If so, can you reach properly both side buttons? Wich type of grip do you use? I'm looking foward to this mouse but I'm not sure because I have tinny hands and I use a clae grip style. I'm not sure about this one or g303. Thanks!

Enviado desde mi XT1097 mediante Tapatalk


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## Cloudy

How is the scroll compared to the 303? Are the steps more defined or are they the normal Mionix scroll like the Avior/Naos?


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## L1nos

Quote:


> How is the scroll compared to the 303? Are the steps more defined or are they the normal Mionix scroll like the Avior/Naos?


The Wheel is much smoother - if you don't get one with the loud rattling wheel. The stps are not as defined as on the G303. I have another problem on my castor. I have to put a certain weight on the wheel to actually scroll. If i just scroll very lightly, the steps are not recognized.

The wheel is certainly the biggest issue on this mouse :/.


----------



## Cloudy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L1nos*
> 
> The Wheel is much smoother - if you don't get one with the loud rattling wheel. The stps are not as defined as on the G303. I have another problem on my castor. I have to put a certain weight on the wheel to actually scroll. If i just scroll very lightly, the steps are not recognized.
> 
> The wheel is certainly the biggest issue on this mouse :/.


How much smoother? I've read a couple reviews that it's too "stiff", but that wasn't in comparison to a 303. That is sort of a shame though, a good mouse wheel is a big decision maker for me.


----------



## L1nos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Cloudy*
> 
> How much smoother? I've read a couple reviews that it's too "stiff", but that wasn't in comparison to a 303. That is sort of a shame though, a good mouse wheel is a big decision maker for me.


Quite a bit smoother. Also smoother than the Kone Pures wheel. But it's hard to describe. You have to test it yourself.


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## coccosoids

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fixxxer86*
> 
> Does anyone with very small hands (17cm) tried this mouse? If so, can you reach properly both side buttons? Wich type of grip do you use? I'm looking foward to this mouse but I'm not sure because I have tinny hands and I use a clae grip style. I'm not sure about this one or g303. Thanks!
> 
> Enviado desde mi XT1097 mediante Tapatalk


Could someone kindly reply this man?! I have slightly bigger hands, but use mosly fingertip or some claw stuff, and any mouse over 120mm feels way too big for these grips. In comparison the EC2 A feels massive. So for smaller hands and a fingertip grip how would the Castor fare, or how does it compare to EC2 A?

Thanks.


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## Telemania

I have 18 cm hands and i am fine with the castor. Fast enough a Not to heavy and big for quake. Played a g100s bevor. Like that the sides give more "filling hands" but also enough space to Not jus hold it in one way. So i think with 17 cm hands it will work to. I play palm/claw hybrid. Hope that helps. I think one of the Best mice for small hands. Much more handable than a ec2.


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## PhiZaRoaH

So overall, what's the opinion on the mouse in here? A lot of hype surrounded the mouse, did it live up to the hype for the most part?

I have tested any mouse that has been worth mentioning this year except the Castor. Anyone highly recommend it compared to other options out there??

It looks to be very solid as far as build quality, Mionix usually nails that part from what i have read.

Looking for any insight from users who favor this mouse to others & why so. Thanks in advance.


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## phrax

just got this mouse today and will probably put some tape on the lower left side to straighten it out, has anyone else tried this yet? I tested it with a bit of card I had lying around and it was definitely feeling better with a flatter thumb area


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## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *phrax*
> 
> just got this mouse today and will probably put some tape on the lower left side to straighten it out, has anyone else tried this yet? I tested it with a bit of card I had lying around and it was definitely feeling better with a flatter thumb area


Nah it was kinda different at first, but i adjusted quickly.


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## Watsyurdeal

To be honest, I wanted to love this mouse, but the sharp edge on the right side meant I couldn't rest my ring finger on the edge like I usually do, so I placed it on top of the mouse, essentially having 3 fingers on top and two on the sides. Felt fine till I got a cramp....then I had to shelve it.

Definitely a good Fingertip Grip mouse but for Palm and Claw Grips I'd recommend the Naos and Avior 7000 respectively.


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## PhiZaRoaH

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Watsyurdeal*
> 
> To be honest, I wanted to love this mouse, but the sharp edge on the right side meant I couldn't rest my ring finger on the edge like I usually do, so I placed it on top of the mouse, essentially having 3 fingers on top and two on the sides. Felt fine till I got a cramp....then I had to shelve it.
> 
> Definitely a good Fingertip Grip mouse but for Palm and Claw Grips I'd recommend the Naos and Avior 7000 respectively.


Guess it just depends on how you grip then, it's perfectly fine for me, i have a meaty hand too.


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## Arnneth

What's your hand size? and could you explain how you hold your mouse?? it will help me alot thanks..


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## Arnneth

What's your hand size? and could you explain how you hold your mouse?? it will help me alo


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## coccosoids

I would say that this is not such a great mouse for finger tip / claw gripping if you have 17.5 or smaller hands. The coating I found (for dry skin) to be really bad.


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