# [Verge] Apple's iPhone 5 event



## Awsan

Source
Quote:


> At 11:30 AM CST time, the TechSmartt crew will be providing Live Coverage of the Apple Event on Sept. 12th. Also, we will be addressing everything released at the event. Below are some times converted to where you live.
> 
> 9:30 AM PST
> 
> 10:30 AM MTN
> 
> 11:30 AM CST
> 
> 12:30 AM EST
> 
> 5:30 PM BST
> 
> If you part of the world is not listed, please visit the website here to receive your conversion. http://bit.ly/TimeConversions


----------



## Alatar

Merged, please use this thread to discuss the event.


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Merged, please use this thread to discuss the event.


Thank you,And yes we will do.


----------



## Benladesh

I'm excited to see if they will bring something new to the market or just release stuff that's already out there.


----------



## MGX1016

Who wants to watch a ten year old?

Why even share that link?

Whatever, I am excited lets talk iPhone 5 release date.. I say Oct 12-15


----------



## cloudbyday

Hoping for better cpu, larger screen, and 4g!


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cloudbyday*
> 
> Hoping for better cpu, larger screen, and 4g!


Samsung waiting for that 4G


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MGX1016*
> 
> Who wants to watch a ten year old?


Give him some credit, Been listening for 4 minutes and so far he seems pretty knowledgeable and professional.


----------



## 3930K

Link to the AT one, which steelbom seems to like (look @ 3rd comment)

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6275/our-apple-iphone-5-live-blog


----------



## doomlord52

Calling it now:

Looks almost exactly the same
Slightly taller because "people want a cinematic experience"
Screen still sub-720p
Higher clocked dual core
1gb RAM
4G LTE (wait for the suing)
Different port offers almost zero technical improvements, but is "justified" because it lets them put the 3.5mm on the bottom as well
Battery life almost the same (+/-, not sure, but within 10% of existing)

Apple will say:
This changes everything
Revolutionary
"Best selling phone"
"Important changes"
"We listened to you"
"What you wanted"

Honestly though, my prediction is that it will bring absolutely nothing new (i.e. stuff that we haven't seen before in other phones) to the table. The combination of its parts will be good, but it'll essentially go for a "jack of all trades" setup.


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Link to the AT one, which steelbom seems to like (look @ 3rd comment)
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6275/our-apple-iphone-5-live-blog


Mods add to source please!
Quote:


> 9:52:29 AM PDT
> And we're in our seats. And they are so so comfy.


LOOOL
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Calling it now:
> Looks almost exactly the same
> Slightly taller because "people want a cinematic experience"
> Screen still sub-720p
> Higher clocked dual core
> 1gb RAM
> 4G LTE (wait for the suing)
> Different port offers almost zero technical improvements, but is "justified" because it lets them put the 3.5mm on the bottom as well
> Battery life almost the same (+/-, not sure, but within 10% of existing)
> Apple will say:
> This changes everything
> Revolutionary
> "Best selling phone"
> "Important changes"
> "We listened to you"
> "What you wanted"
> Honestly though, my prediction is that it will bring absolutely nothing new (i.e. stuff that we haven't seen before in other phones) to the table. The combination of its parts will be good, but it'll essentially go for a "jack of all trades" setup.


True,But we shall see


----------



## Blindrage606




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## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *awsan*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Link to the AT one, which steelbom seems to like (look @ 3rd comment)
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6275/our-apple-iphone-5-live-blog
> 
> 
> 
> Mods add to source please!
Click to expand...

Added. And a thread bump, event it about to begin.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Link to the AT one, which steelbom seems to like (look @ 3rd comment)
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6275/our-apple-iphone-5-live-blog


That I do. Anandtech, best reviews ever. This will be the first live blog from them I've watched though, and apparently only their second lol.

>>>>>

LOL people are searching Apple.com for stuff and inactive pages are coming up. New iPhone 5, iPod touches, iPod nanos, Earpods, new iTunes... hahahaha (yay on that last one







)


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *awsan*
> 
> True,But we shall see


I'm fine if I turn out to be wrong, but I'm going by what I know about apple. Let's see if im right (honestly, I dont want to be right. If I am right, then its horrible news for the tech world).


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Link to the AT one, which steelbom seems to like (look @ 3rd comment)
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6275/our-apple-iphone-5-live-blog
> 
> 
> 
> That I do. Anandtech, best reviews ever. This will be the first live blog from them I've watched though, and apparently only their second lol.
> 
> >>>>>
> 
> LOL people are searching Apple.com for stuff and inactive pages are coming up. New iPhone 5, iPod touches, iPod nanos, Earpods, new iTunes... hahahaha (yay on that last one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
Click to expand...

Apple do have a habit of teasing though.... a lot.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I am always exited for Apple conferences. They are just something else. With iPhone they set a high industry standard that everyone eventfully follows.


----------



## Awsan

COME ON START!!!!


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## Blindrage606

IS there a video stream?


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *awsan*
> 
> COME ON START!!!!


01:01PM EDT - Tim Cook is on stage

10:02AM PDT - We're looking at the interior of one of the newest Apple stores. Tim is talking about the glass staircase.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Snapping ftw









Edit:
Quote:


> 10:03:29 AM PDT
> This is the most inspirational retail experience video ever made.


*Really*?

That boring is it?


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> 
> Snapping ftw


yay i'm in the pic XD


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Apple do have a habit of teasing though.... a lot.


Haha yeah but this is legit I reckon
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> 01:01PM EDT - Tim Cook is on stage
> 
> 10:02AM PDT - We're looking at the interior of one of the newest Apple stores. Tim is talking about the glass staircase.


Time zone switch









>>>>

Quad-core 1.2GHz iPhone 5! IGZO display! MOAR BATTERY LIFE! Dis' what I'm callin.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> 
> 
> Snapping ftw


I wish I was using windows 8 now. Sigh. How much I love it.

@Steelbom I meant talking about glass staircases


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## Awsan

No live stream?


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> @Steelbom I meant talking about glass staircases


Oh lol. You no like?


----------



## 3930K

http://live.twit.tv/


----------



## steelbom

Nope, no live stuff. Anything live will be shut down reasonably quickly


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Nope, no live stuff. Anything live will be shut down reasonably quickly


Why?


----------



## steelbom

I reckon Infinity Blade: Dungeons might get some screen time again with maybe enhanced effects for the quad-core iPhone 5?


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> I reckon Infinity Blade: Dungeons might get some screen time again with maybe enhanced effects for the quad-core iPhone 5?


lolquadcoreiphone5

Trends indicate that it won't be no quadcore.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Nope, no live stuff. Anything live will be shut down reasonably quickly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?
Click to expand...

Let me clarify: live video. They don't want it up.


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> 
> Snapping ftw
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edit:
> *Really*?
> That boring is it?



Close enough


----------



## doomlord52

"Almost all of the Fortune 500 are testing or deploying iPads. And they're investing in custom apps. This is something none of them do on the PC."

I work with one of the fortune 20 companies. They aren't doing it for PCs because they already did. Everyone runs windows.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Nope, no live stuff. Anything live will be shut down reasonably quickly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Let me clarify: live video. They don't want it up.
Click to expand...

No, but why?


----------



## Benladesh

Everything he is saying should be taken with a grain of salt. Lots of cleverly chosen wording here.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> No, but why?


I'm not sure, but unless they're doing the stream you're not allowed to.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> "Almost all of the Fortune 500 are testing or deploying iPads. And they're investing in custom apps. This is something none of them do on the PC."
> 
> I work with one of the fortune 20 companies. They aren't doing it for PCs because they already did. Everyone runs windows.


It's all marketing, that's the point.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> Everything he is saying should be taken with a grain of salt. Lots of cleverly chosen wording here.


steelbom or Tim Cook?

EDIT: 10:13AM PDT - Sidenote: We were conservative in our predictions of at least one aspect of today's iPhone launch
iP5 confirmed.


----------



## doomlord52

"it's really neat to stand here and see the Apple logo on all these computers."
Macs at an Apple convention? AMAZING.

Yep, iphone 5 confirmed.

/edit

Looks exactly the same (but is slightly taller).

+1 point for me.


----------



## Awsan

ROFL you where right XD


----------



## Brutuz

10:14AM PDT - iPhone 5 on stage now

10:15AM PDT - Hooray for China

10:15AM PDT - It looks just like the leaked chassis images

Hahahahaha


----------



## 3930K

10:15AM PDT - Hooray for China

10:15AM PDT - It looks just like the leaked chassis images

I thought more security?


----------



## dantoddd

it looks more like iphone 4.5


----------



## AllyOmega

Wow. Looking at the pictures. The leaks were spot on.


----------



## lordikon

Looks like the leaked images were entirely correct. Two-toned finish on the back, taller phone. 1136x640, as predicted.


----------



## 3930K

10:16AM PDT - 20% lighter than the 4S

10:16AM PDT - 112g

10:16AM PDT - "it's the world's thinnest smartphone"

10:16AM PDT - 7.6mm thin, 18% thinner than the 4S


----------



## Awsan

GG china EPIC LEAKS XD


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Trends indicate that it won't be no quadcore.


Oh ya it will!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> steelbom or Tim Cook?
> 
> EDIT: 10:13AM PDT - Sidenote: We were conservative in our predictions of at least one aspect of today's iPhone launch
> iP5 confirmed.


I'm sure he meant Tim.


----------



## 3930K

10:17AM PDT - 1136 x 640

10:17AM PDT - The new screen is 4-inch display

10:17AM PDT - Retina Display, 326 ppi

inb4 A5X

16:9!


----------



## Stealth Pyros

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Calling it now:
> 
> Looks almost exactly the same
> Slightly taller because "people want a cinematic experience"
> Screen still sub-720p
> Higher clocked dual core
> 1gb RAM
> 4G LTE (wait for the suing)
> Different port offers almost zero technical improvements, but is "justified" because it lets them put the 3.5mm on the bottom as well
> Battery life almost the same (+/-, not sure, but within 10% of existing)
> 
> Apple will say:
> This changes everything
> Revolutionary
> "Best selling phone"
> "Important changes"
> "We listened to you"
> "What you wanted"
> 
> Honestly though, my prediction is that it will bring absolutely nothing new (i.e. stuff that we haven't seen before in other phones) to the table. The combination of its parts will be good, but it'll essentially go for a "jack of all trades" setup.


Quote:


> "This is unlike anything we or anyone else in our industry has made before."


----------



## Brutuz

4" display? I'm interested to use it, depending on how it feels vs a Note II it may end up being my next phone. Wish it was 720p though.


----------



## doomlord52

Still sub-720p, but "Cinematic experience"
+2 for me


----------



## Awsan

Retina display, 326 PPI.
Nokia lumia:920,332 pp and it has bigger screen FAIL!!!


----------



## 3930K

I lol'd


----------



## DCSRM

I am really glad that iOS users will get a bigger screen experience, but its not for me.

Just please stop calling it revolutionary and I will have no problem with it.


----------



## Churminess

I love how they're explaining what "bigger screen" means.


----------



## 3930K

10:19AM PDT - Same is true in vertical position, black bars top/bottom for older apps

10:19AM PDT - Legacy apps run centered with black boarders on the sides

failed


----------



## Brutuz

It's a shame, how thin it is and the engineering is great, but the screen is way too small IMO, I will have to use it first to see..


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> 10:19AM PDT - Same is true in vertical position, black bars top/bottom for older apps
> 
> 10:19AM PDT - Legacy apps run centered with black boarders on the sides
> 
> failed


It's all they could do until they can ensure apps will run correctly. Developers will update them soon enough!


----------



## 3930K

10:20AM PDT - 44% more color saturation than the 4S display

lol


----------



## CaptainChaos

"This is the monumental challenge we had - can you make a phone with more features that is smaller and lighter. Anyone can make a bigger phone."

and then they announce that it has a 4 inch screen and is clearly bigger... What am I missing?


----------



## steelbom

Nice, full sRGB coverage, +44% saturation, in-cell technology, less glare in sunlight, sharper image woo


----------



## Stealth Pyros

1136 x 640 screen resolution










I hear the shares dropping.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CaptainChaos*
> 
> "This is the monumental challenge we had - can you make a phone with more features that is smaller and lighter. Anyone can make a bigger phone."
> 
> and then they announce that it has a 4 inch screen and is clearly bigger... What am I missing?


Thinner, they mean.


----------



## Awsan

SAMSUNG COME OVA HERE "We've added HSPA+, DC-HSDPA, and yes... LTE."


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## newpc

10:22AM PDT - GPRS, EDGE, EV-DO, HSPA, HSPA+, DC-HSDPA, and LTE all in the 5
oh snap


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> 10:19AM PDT - Same is true in vertical position, black bars top/bottom for older apps
> 
> 10:19AM PDT - Legacy apps run centered with black boarders on the sides
> 
> failed
> 
> 
> 
> It's all they could do until they can ensure apps will run correctly. Developers will update them soon enough!
Click to expand...

Not really, they could have gone for a larger screen and kept the borders.

LTE confirmed (For sure this time), wonder what Samsung and HTC are going to do?


----------



## doomlord52

LTE

Called it. Wait for the lulz.
(also called it, so now im at +4, 100% right so far).


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Nice, full sRGB coverage, +44% saturation, in-cell technology, less glare in sunlight, sharper image woo


Still the lumia 920 screen is better


----------



## ryboto

and now they'll be sued....it never ends!!!


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## Majin SSJ Eric

OMG!!!!!!!!!! THIS.........CHANGES...............EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't have time to post all of the







needed....


----------



## AllyOmega

LTE confirmed. Some apple exclusive "Dynamic antenna" thing?


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## IcedEarth

LTE....interesting.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> Not really, they could have gone for a larger screen and kept the borders.
> 
> LTE confirmed (For sure this time), wonder what Samsung and HTC are going to do?


Width would have to have been increased and resolution would either have to stay the same (less PPI) or go to 1440x960 (a bit overkill).

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *awsan*
> 
> Still the lumia 920 screen is better


Does it have full sRGB coverage?


----------



## steelbom

2x faster graphics, 2x faster CPU









They mentioned receive diversity for the antenna, but what about send diversity?

Wow dual-core Cortex A15. I love you Apple.

*EDIT*: 5GHz WiFi, up to 150Mbps


----------



## DrDarkTempler

Im waiting for samsung to sue Apple for LTE now lol, someone will post it on OCN sooner or later


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> LTE confirmed. Some apple exclusive "Dynamic antenna" thing?


It dynamically loses some reception if you hold it a certain way! Kidding.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> Not really, they could have gone for a larger screen and kept the borders.
> 
> LTE confirmed (For sure this time), wonder what Samsung and HTC are going to do?
> 
> 
> 
> Width would have to have been increased and resolution would either have to stay the same (less PPI) or go to 1440x960 (a bit overkill).
Click to expand...

1440x960 in a 4.5" screen would have worked fairly well.

2x faster CPU, most of that will come from it being the A15 but I'm going to hazard a guess it has slightly higher clocks too.


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> 2x faster graphics, 2x faster CPU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They mentioned receive diversity for the antenna, but what about send diversity?
> Wow dual-core Cortex A15. I love you Apple.


So no quad core, huh?


----------



## Benladesh

Quote:


> Rob Murray from EA is out.


Boo, The 2 worse companies in one place


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Does it have full sRGB coverage?


Yes, actually.

/edit

Lol EA. "Full console quality"
Congrats. 2005 quality.


----------



## 3930K

A6 wit two a15s... Wow.


----------



## 179232

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> So no quad core, huh?


A15 is much faster than A9 in single threaded performance. I'd stick with 2x A15 over 4x A9 cores any day.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> 2x faster graphics, 2x faster CPU
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They mentioned receive diversity for the antenna, but what about send diversity?
> Wow dual-core Cortex A15. I love you Apple.
> 
> 
> 
> So no quad core, huh?
Click to expand...

No need for a quad core in a phone yet.

Real Racing 3 looks great considering it's on a phone, definitely nearly at console quality games on smartphones.


----------



## doomlord52

10:27:36 AM PDT - The graphics are somewhat sparse, but what we can see looks quite nice.

"We can't actually put anything on screen to prevent lag, but the two objects on screen look quite nice".

Kay.

/edit

Wait, so the A6 is dual core? Called it.
+1 for me. Still rocking 100% accuracy.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> 1440x960 in a 4.5" screen would have worked fairly well.
> 
> 2x faster CPU, most of that will come from it being the A15 but I'm going to hazard a guess it has slightly higher clocks too.


It would've.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> So no quad core, huh?


Nope! I'm glad to say it too! I thought they'd go with the more marketable option but thank you Apple!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Yes, actually.
> 
> /edit
> 
> Lol EA. "Full console quality"
> Congrats. 2005 quality.


Eh good on em. We'll see if it's better though, sure there'll be comparisons


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ComradeNF*
> 
> A15 is much faster than A9 in single threaded performance. I'd stick with 2x A15 over 4x A9 cores any day.


I agree. Quad core was never necessary in the first place.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> No need for a quad core in a phone yet.
> Real Racing 3 looks great considering it's on a phone, definitely nearly at console quality games on smartphones.


Again, I agree. Any current Android phones use this tech?


----------



## Awsan

Oh boy Isight try to rock the pureview


----------



## 179232

The phone looks like a big step forward from the 4S. However, I am not liking the 16:9 display. I would have went with 16:10. Its a small difference but noticeable. Typing in portrait with the iPhone is very difficult to do IMO. Much easier with my old Galaxy S2 and new S3.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ComradeNF*
> 
> A15 is much faster than A9 in single threaded performance. I'd stick with 2x A15 over 4x A9 cores any day.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. Quad core was never necessary in the first place.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> No need for a quad core in a phone yet.
> Real Racing 3 looks great considering it's on a phone, definitely nearly at console quality games on smartphones.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Again, I agree. Any current Android phones use this tech?
Click to expand...

Not yet, but most new phones will launch with the A15 anyway.


----------



## doomlord52

225 hours standby? 4S was 200.
That's a 11.2% increase. Im off by 1.2% in my guess. Damn.


----------



## steelbom

Lots of camera improvements. Glad they didn't unnecessarily increase megapixels.


----------



## Benladesh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> I agree. Quad core was never necessary in the first place.
> 
> Again, I agree. Any current Android phones use this tech?


The tech will never be used or developed for unless its readily available.
New tech is never fully used until later in its lifetime because of adoption rate.


----------



## Brutuz

Loving these camera features.


----------



## no1Joeno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Lots of camera improvements. Glad they didn't unnecessarily increase megapixels.


Lol. They don't update some features, and you just act like you a proud they didn't.

If they did, you would be saying OMG SO INNOVATIVE!


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Attempting to invent panorama snapping ¬_¬


----------



## Benladesh

Nothing really revolutionary thus far. Nothing really new.


----------



## Monstrous

Take photos whilst recording 1080p? Anyone want to buy my Galaxy S3?


----------



## neonlazer

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> Nothing really revolutionary thus far. Nothing really new.


The first part I was remembering and thinking..thats what they said about the Galaxy S 3 a few months ago. I think the idea of calling it brick is even better with it longer!


----------



## Churminess

Can any other phone take photos while taking a video? That sounds handy.


----------



## steelbom

Nice... better front facing camera too, better video (for rear cam) and three microphones... beam forming? for voice recognition and Siri... it sounds cool.


----------



## dantoddd

It's just the 4s with everything updated to 2012 standards. i'm going to call this iphone 4.5


----------



## doomlord52

Forgot to make camera predictions. Damn :/

Camera looks.... okay. Nothing technically new. Panorama was on the Galaxy Nexus.


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Churminess*
> 
> Can any other phone take photos while taking a video? That sounds handy.


Pretty sure the One X can.


----------



## yakub0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Churminess*
> 
> Can any other phone take photos while taking a video? That sounds handy.


I'm fairly certain my Droid Razr does that.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Wireless charging.........i have a feeling.......

Edit: or not


----------



## CaptainChaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Churminess*
> 
> Can any other phone take photos while taking a video? That sounds handy.


My Galaxy Nexus and the Galaxy SIII just to name two.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *no1Joeno1*
> 
> Lol. They don't update some features, and you just act like you a proud they didn't.
> 
> If they did, you would be saying OMG SO INNOVATIVE!


Uh no. If they did I'd still feel they should've kept 8 megapixels, unless of course they improved sensor quality to compensate, but I'm glad they're not upping the megapixels to try and sell it.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> Nothing really revolutionary thus far. Nothing really new.


There's plenty of big improvements. Dual-core A15, 2x graphics, camera improvements, display quality improvements..., etc.


----------



## Oupavoc

Its the same camera... really!!!


----------



## Brutuz

I have to admit, I am liking it, I just hope that the 4" screen isn't a deal breaker.


----------



## Benladesh

Why give a connector as name? 0.o


----------



## Churminess

Ah, fair enough. Unstable rom means I can't even take video, so I wasn't sure if Android could.


----------



## ipod4ever

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> Why give a connector as name? 0.o


so they can charge a million dollars for it


----------



## doomlord52

Not enough info on the port/cable thing yet. Can't say if im right yet.


----------



## Monstrous

Really hope they announce some new iPods. Might as well buy this and a new iPod since i'll be at the Apple store...


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> Nothing really revolutionary thus far. Nothing really new.


Nothing revolutionary, but good improvements all around. It'll be a good upgrade for 3GS and 4 users.


----------



## 179232

Is there any news on whether or not iOS6 is going to be open source yet? Or if the iPhone 5 will have a removable battery and micro SD card slot?


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oupavoc*
> 
> Its the same camera... really!!!


Lots of improvements in it.


----------



## Z Overlord

will this thread have a tl;dr version? Like what has been announced so far?


----------



## Benladesh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Nothing revolutionary, but good improvements all around. It'll be a good upgrade for 3GS and 4 users.


Definitely a good upgrade for people who stick to apple products. Apple have however always claimed to be at the forefront of the tech world. This phone doesn't really show that off unfortunately.


----------



## Churminess

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Nothing revolutionary, but good improvements all around. It'll be a good upgrade for 3GS and 4 users.


The new chassis would be reason enough if I was Apple inclined; sexy and less breakable.


----------



## Awsan

Use the camera as a navigation system COME ONNNNNNNNNNNNNN NOKIA DID THAT FREAKIN BEFORE


----------



## steelbom

Twice as powerful graphics... how? 600 series PowerVR? Wouldn't think it would be ready.


----------



## Oupavoc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Lots of improvements in it.
> Hmm...


Not really man, they only made it the lens thinner and better night pics.


----------



## doomlord52

So it has google maps..... cool?


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Is it just me, or is this whole thing looking like more of a "catch up" than it is a "step up" in terms of (meaningful) smart phone industry standards?


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Is it just me, or is this whole thing more of a "catch up" than it is a "step up" in terms of (meaningful) smart phone industry standards?


Its an apple lumia 920


----------



## 3930K

Massive gambles on the iP 5... A15s for example.


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Is it just me, or is this whole thing more of a "catch up" than it is a "step up" in terms of (meaningful) smart phone industry standards?


Yep.
"Full screen browser"

Android has had that for at least a year now.
Contacts syncing... since the dawn of time for android.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> Definitely a good upgrade for people who stick to apple products. Apple have however always claimed to be at the forefront of the tech world. This phone doesn't really show that off unfortunately.


How is a dual-core Cortex A15 not at the forefront of the tech world? What about significantly better display quality? Greatly improved camera? None of that matters does it? Two times graphics?


----------



## Ksireaper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Is it just me, or is this whole thing looking like more of a "catch up" than it is a "step up" in terms of (meaningful) smart phone industry standards?


Ya, from what i am seeing they are just catching up and in a few months will be left behind for the next few years.


----------



## kplonsky

Congratz, doing these things on my android for years


----------



## Stealth Pyros

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ipod4ever*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> Why give a connector as name? 0.o
> 
> 
> 
> so they can charge a million dollars for it
Click to expand...

Marketing tactic. People like names. "Oooohhh it has a Thunderbolt connector!"

Decent hardware upgrades this time around; leaps better than the jump between the 4 and 4S. HD front camera, better primary camera, slightly better battery life, "double" the CPU and GPU performance. I also do like the new back side, looks like a matte black finish? I'm not overly impressed though. I've had 4" phones, they're too small for my taste. Good hardware improvements, but I'm sensing a lack of actual *new* features that set it apart. Google/Samsung/Motorola/HTC, it's your game. Bring us a plethora of some sick Nexus devices


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> How is a dual-core Cortex A15 not at the forefront of the tech world? What about significantly better display quality? Greatly improved camera? None of that matters does it? Two times graphics?


The A15 is already in a LOT of phones (that are coming out soon).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cortex-A15_MPCore
The display is worse than the Lumia 920 (in EVERY way), and lower rez than a LOT of phones
The camera isn't that big of an improvement.
The graphics is thanks to the A15... which is in other phones.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oupavoc*
> 
> Not really man, they only made it the lens thinner and better night pics.


It seems to be more than that, but we'll see with comparisons I guess.


----------



## Rubers

Samsung and HTC had this one first I think.


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> How is a dual-core Cortex A15 not at the forefront of the tech world? What about significantly better display quality? Greatly improved camera? None of that matters does it? Two times graphics?


It'll be the only phone with a Cortex A15 for a few months, if that. And that's just because the major Android OEM's have a different release schedule.

Better display quality is always good. However, there are already Android phones that have great screens that I believe can compete with the iPhone 5. For example, the One X and Sony's phones.

Camera's cool. PureView probably outdoes it, but we'll see. A better camera isn't exactly revolutionary though.


----------



## Benladesh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> How is a dual-core Cortex A15 not at the forefront of the tech world? What about significantly better display quality? Greatly improved camera? None of that matters does it? Two times graphics?


All of these numbers (2 times .etc) are compared to a previous iphone.

They are playing catchup with this phone and it's features.


----------



## yakub0

It's kind of sad that they haven't done anything new to the tech world with the iPhone 5. Everything they've put into it has basically been done already. It's like they're catching up to current tech. Nothing really innovative or revolutionary.


----------



## no1Joeno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Monstrous*
> 
> Take photos whilst recording 1080p? Anyone want to buy my Galaxy S3?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CaptainChaos*
> 
> My Galaxy Nexus and the Galaxy SIII just to name two.


Haha, this made me lol.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Soooo, its going to be a pretty decent phone, huh? Great!









Move along, nothing else to see here...


----------



## noobhell

I watched the cnet live stream and it's hilarious! People call up asking questions like "If I update my 4s will the camera resolution get as good as the 5's?"


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> How is a dual-core Cortex A15 not at the forefront of the tech world? What about significantly better display quality? Greatly improved camera? None of that matters does it? Two times graphics?
> 
> 
> 
> The A15 is already in a LOT of phones (that are coming out soon).
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cortex-A15_MPCore
> The display is worse than the Lumia 920 (in EVERY way), and lower rez than a LOT of phones
> The camera isn't that big of an improvement.
> The graphics is thanks to the A15... which is in other phones.
Click to expand...

Yeah but Apple is out with it first. We'll see about that... I'm not too familiar with the Lumia 920's display.

What do you mean the graphics is thanks to the A15? It means two times more powerful graphics, so double an SGX543MP2, either in clock speed or core count.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yakub0*
> 
> It's kind of sad that they haven't done anything new to the tech world with the iPhone 5. Everything they've put into it has basically been done already. It's like they're catching up to current tech. Nothing really innovative or revolutionary.


Pretty much how I feel about it.

I'm holding out for a big announcement though......


----------



## Awsan

PLEASE tell me is there anything new any phone doesnt have??????? until now the Lumia 920 is a much better option


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Soooo, its going to be a pretty decent phone, huh? Great!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Move along, nothing else to see here...


Decent is understating it. It's a great, high-end smartphone that will get great reviews. It's just not doing anything particularly exciting.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> The A15 is already in a LOT of phones (that are coming out soon).
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cortex-A15_MPCore
> The display is worse than the Lumia 920 (in EVERY way), and lower rez than a LOT of phones
> The camera isn't that big of an improvement.
> The graphics is thanks to the A15... which is in other phones.


pixels per inch dude


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> How is a dual-core Cortex A15 not at the forefront of the tech world? What about significantly better display quality? Greatly improved camera? None of that matters does it? Two times graphics?
> 
> 
> 
> It'll be the only phone with a Cortex A15 for a few months, if that. And that's just because the major Android OEM's have a different release schedule.
Click to expand...

And? That's their fault, sure, it _could_ be different but it isn't, it's the same argument as "Apple would sell a lot more phones if they had more makers!" which is true but really doesn't mean anything.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *yakub0*
> 
> It's kind of sad that they haven't done anything new to the tech world with the iPhone 5. Everything they've put into it has basically been done already. It's like they're catching up to current tech. Nothing really innovative or revolutionary.


I have to admit, the reversible connector is a good idea.


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> pixels per inch dude


yup 326vs 332 the lumia is higher my dear friend


----------



## Churminess

I'm out of touch, are there going to be any major Android phone manufacturer events any time soon? Both this and the 920 seem to be pretty much on par and I'm curious to see the Android response.


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Yeah but Apple is out with it first. We'll see about that... I'm not too familiar with the Lumia 920's display.
> What do you mean the graphics is thanks to the A15? It means two times more powerful graphics, so double an SGX543MP2, either in clock speed or core count.


Well, no release date yet (wait a min or so). They've got to release it Q3 if they want to be first for any amount of time. BEST case scenario is it comes out today and is first for a month or two.

As for better graphics, im still looking for data right now. Im fairly certain it'll be equaled when other A15 phones come out.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *awsan*
> 
> PLEASE tell me is there anything new any phone doesnt have??????? until now the Lumia 920 is a much better option


This is your 5th post about the Lumia 920. I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at.

Lumia a handful of specs that are better, and some that aren't. OS comparison is subjective. So, what's your point?


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> It'll be the only phone with a Cortex A15 for a few months, if that. And that's just because the major Android OEM's have a different release schedule.
> 
> Better display quality is always good. However, there are already Android phones that have great screens that I believe can compete with the iPhone 5. For example, the One X and Sony's phones.
> 
> Camera's cool. PureView probably outdoes it, but we'll see. A better camera isn't exactly revolutionary though.


Yep. It's ahead, and at least "up there" in terms of the processor. Though it's probably going to have a lower clock speed than the Android smartphones.

The iPad 3 came out with top notch display quality, and it seems the iPhone 5 is following. It's still high end quality, even if it's competing with other smartphones.

No, it's not, but it's good nonetheless.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> All of these numbers (2 times .etc) are compared to a previous iphone.
> 
> They are playing catchup with this phone and it's features.


Uh yeah what else would they compare it against? They're not playing catch up, they're just updating like normal.


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *awsan*
> 
> yup 326vs 332 the lumia is higher my dear friend


Yeah, because your eyes will be able to tell the difference between 326 and 332.


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> And? That's their fault, sure, it _could_ be different but it isn't, it's the same argument as "Apple would sell a lot more phones if they had more makers!" which is true but really doesn't mean anything.


Agreed. Just like the iPhone 5 will be behind the times in spring 2013. That's just how the mobile phone cycle works at the moment. I'm just saying it's not "revolutionary." It's great that new tech is coming out, though, whether it be Apple or Nokia.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Well, no release date yet (wait a min or so). They've got to release it Q3 if they want to be first for any amount of time. BEST case scenario is it comes out today and is first for a month or two.
> 
> As for better graphics, im still looking for data right now. Im fairly certain it'll be equaled when other A15 phones come out.


Ha, true. It's at best a week or two until release though, and yeah... I'm interested to see what they've done with the graphics. Maybe they have used a quad-core SGX543? But that seems like overkill.


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Yeah, because your eyes will be able to tell the difference between 326 and 332.
> Does OCN really only care about numbers and specs?


Yes. Yes we do. Its "The pursuit of performance". We sand our $1000 CPUs to get the temp down a quarter of a degree, in hopes of getting a few MHz onto our CPUs already clocked at 5+ghz.


----------



## Benladesh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Uh yeah what else would they compare it against? They're not playing catch up, they're just updating like normal.


usually they update and "revolutionize" they try to be ahead of the curve. This time, that didn't happen. It's important to note that Apple aren't able to hold the crown for innovation. (For this phone at least). So yes, it's a normal update, not a "revolutionary" update.


----------



## no1Joeno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Churminess*
> 
> I'm out of touch, are there going to be any major Android phone manufacturer events any time soon? Both this and the 920 seem to be pretty much on par and I'm curious to see the Android response.


Yes there is actually. There is the Galaxy S 3 which came out a few months back, which destroys this phone.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

10:57:09 AM PDT
"Now you can make a FaceTime call right over the cellular network." Well...

"Never before have we built a product with this level of fit and finish," says Jony.

Isn't that just video calling?


----------



## no1Joeno1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Yeah, because your eyes will be able to tell the difference between 326 and 332.


Did you even read what he replied to?


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *no1Joeno1*
> 
> Yes there is actually. There is the Galaxy S 3 which came out a few months back, which destroys this phone.


That's subjective. Specs are just numbers. What it really comes down to usability which differs from person to person.

Some people prefer Android phones. Others prefer the iPhone. Neither is better than the other.


----------



## Benladesh

Quote:


> 10:58:39 AM PDT
> I'm going to make sweet love to this phone.


Wow, this person has issues.


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *no1Joeno1*
> 
> Yes there is actually. There is the Galaxy S 3 which came out a few months back, which destroys this phone.


Destroys? No. Comparable? Yeah, especially since the Galaxy S3 will soon probably get a price drop. Plus, the new Nexus and s4 are just around the corner.


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> That's subjective. Specs are just numbers. What it really comes down to usability which differs from person to person.
> Some people prefer Android phones. Others prefer the iPhone. Neither is better than the other.


I think you've got that backwards. Numbers are FACTS. They can be quantified. Subjective is "X looks better than Y". You cant measure how good something looks.


----------



## r3skyline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> That's subjective. Specs are just numbers. What it really comes down to usability which differs from person to person.
> Some people prefer Android phones. Others prefer the iPhone. Neither is better than the other.


No specs show whats better.










Anyone else notice the iPhone 5 looks just like the S3? I guess they took a number from Samsung and copied back. haha
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> Destroys? No. Comparable? Yeah, especially since the Galaxy S3 will soon probably get a price drop. Plus, the new Nexus and s4 are just around the corner.


There is nothing speaking of those phones anywhere to show they are "just around the corner". I wish.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Yeah, because your eyes will be able to tell the difference between 326 and 332.
> Does OCN really only care about numbers and specs?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. Yes we do. Its "The pursuit of performance". We sand our $1000 CPUs to get the temp down a quarter of a degree, in hopes of getting a few MHz onto our CPUs already clocked at 5+ghz.
Click to expand...

Then why are you only running a 2600k and GTX 570? You should be running dual GTX 690s under water with a 3960X and move to Antarctica for cooler ambient temperatures. The whole "PUrsuit of performance" argument is, and always has been the stupidest argument used on OCN apart from the few people who seem to be completely deluded about product X (GeForce FX, Phenom I, Bulldozer, etc) performance vs its competitors.


----------



## dantoddd

This is probably the best phone out there. Let's admit that. But it's not going to age that well. And more disturbing for the AAPL stock owners it seems to lack the omph of other apple releases.

The dual core vs quad core situation is interesting. what is faster a dual core A15 a or quad core A9.


----------



## 3930K

21 is the date.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> usually they update and "revolutionize" they try to be ahead of the curve. This time, that didn't happen. It's important to note that Apple aren't able to hold the crown for innovation. (For this phone at least). So yes, it's a normal update, not a "revolutionary" update.


No one is saying it's revolutionary. It's just fantastic. And ahead of the curve slightly -- dual-core A15.


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r3skyline*
> 
> No specs show whats better.


Do they now?

Then explain to me how my 4S is still smoother than my Nexus 7 with Jellybean.


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> Then why are you only running a 2600k and GTX 570? You should be running dual GTX 690s under water with a 3960X and move to Antarctica for cooler ambient temperatures. The whole "PUrsuit of performance" argument is, and always has been the stupidest argument used on OCN apart from the few people who seem to be completely deluded about product X (GeForce FX, Phenom I, Bulldozer, etc) performance vs its competitors.


If I had the money, I would.

I get the best I can afford. I totally admit there's better stuff out there than what I have. Far better stuff. However, I admit that. I dont say "There's no difference between my 570s and two 690s", which is essentially what ImmortalKenney said.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

My buddy is going to have this phone day one and he is going to be absolutely nauseating about it:

"Dude, you know this thing has a dual core processor?"

"Dude, the camera is so awesome!"

"Dude, LTE baby!"

I can't wait...


----------



## r3skyline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Do they now?
> My Nexus 7 pretty much has better specs, numbers, whatever compared to my 4S. With that said, my 4S still feels faster, nothing lags, it just...works.


You realize thats a coding issue then? My old S2 felt better than 4S and i regret ever switching and shouldve stuck through and upgraded to a S3 instead.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dantoddd*
> 
> This is probably the best phone out there. Let's admit that. But it's not going to age that well. And more disturbing for the AAPL stock owners it seems to lack the omph of other apple releases.
> 
> The dual core vs quad core situation is interesting. what is faster a dual core A15 a or quad core A9.


Dual-core A15 is substantially faster for anything which can only utilise one or two cores. It's much better than a quad-core A9 which will win out if all four cores are being used but not too much can utilise that, not anywhere near as much a a dual-core at least.


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r3skyline*
> 
> You realize thats a coding issue then?


Oh, so it's a problem with Jellybean then? But according to you, specs shows what's better.


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Do they now?
> My Nexus 7 pretty much has better specs, numbers, whatever compared to my 4S. With that said, my 4S still feels faster, nothing lags, it just...works.


Yes, they do. What you're seeing is software issues. Not hardware. Run quadrant on both the Nexus 7 and the 4S. The Nexus will crush it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> But according to you, specs shows what's better.


You're confusing subjective stuff with objective stuff. I dont care what you feel, a Core i7 is faster than a Pentium 4. Sure, the P4 might FEEL snappier if you run some crazy light version of Linux on it compared to a basic install of Windows 7, but its still slower.


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Yes, they do. What you're seeing is software issues. Not hardware. Run quadrant on both the Nexus 7 and the 4S. The Nexus will crush it.


*BUT SPECS ARE EVERYTHING*

So what's the point in having a better CPU if the OS is bottlenecking its performance like what you guys are saying.

You guys are ridiculous. lol


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Do they now?
> Then explain to me how my 4S is still smoother than my Nexus 7 with Jellybean.


You're pretty much the only person I've ever heard report smoothness issues with the Nexus 7.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dantoddd*
> 
> This is probably the best phone out there. Let's admit that. But it's not going to age that well. And more disturbing for the AAPL stock owners it seems to lack the omph of other apple releases.
> 
> The dual core vs quad core situation is interesting. what is faster a dual core A15 a or quad core A9.


Agreed, for now this is the phone to get but the new Lumia will give it something to compete with.

The A15 dual is far better, nothing on phones uses a quad core yet and the A15 is much faster in IPC as well as clock speeds, iirc it was actually 40% faster clock for clock.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> Then why are you only running a 2600k and GTX 570? You should be running dual GTX 690s under water with a 3960X and move to Antarctica for cooler ambient temperatures. The whole "PUrsuit of performance" argument is, and always has been the stupidest argument used on OCN apart from the few people who seem to be completely deluded about product X (GeForce FX, Phenom I, Bulldozer, etc) performance vs its competitors.
> 
> 
> 
> If I had the money, I would.
> 
> I get the best I can afford. I totally admit there's better stuff out there than what I have. Far better stuff. However, I admit that. I dont say "There's no difference between my 570s and two 690s", which is essentially what ImmortalKenney said.
Click to expand...

There's a massive difference between 570 SLI and GTX 690 SLI, the difference in PPI is more like comparing a 3570k to a 3770k in only gaming, there is a tiny difference but it's only noticeable when you're looking at the numbers, really it's fine if its over 320 PPI.


----------



## Awsan

See its as easy as this ok, Ios uses less resources than Jellybean so its normal for it to use dual core but dont come in here and say its faster than android phones+nothing new in here its only an iphone 4s upgraded to 2012 standards and a lot of software updates which can be applied to the iPhone 4s


----------



## Churminess

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> You're pretty much the only person I've ever heard report smoothness issues with the Nexus 7.


This. Mine feels smoother than The New iPad, I didn't compare to the 4s seeing as I didn't feel a phone was relevant but I imagine I'd find the same thing.


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> You're pretty much the only person I've ever heard report smoothness issues with the Nexus 7.


I'm not saying it's slow or always laggy. It's just not consistently smooth as my 4S, that's all I'm saying.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> No one is saying it's revolutionary. It's just fantastic. And ahead of the curve slightly -- dual-core A15.


How is it ahead of the curve when they're catching up to already existing features in other phones AND there'a a slew of other phones already announced to use the Cortex A15?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Dual-core A15 is substantially faster for anything which can only utilise one or two cores. It's much better than a quad-core A9 which will win out if all four cores are being used but not too much can utilise that, not anywhere near as much a a dual-core at least.


Again with this argument. Except that now with more quad core phones on the market it's almost a cert that apps with become multithreaded and thus quad cores will take the crown.

I remember this exact argument when the Core2Quad range landed. Jealous people with dual cores claiming quads weren't needed or that games/apps didn't take advantage of them. Now those same arguments are being used in the mobile world and I suspect the exact same outcome.

Lets face it. This phone has tonnes of features already found in other phones and is playing catch up to the market. There's nothing revolutionary or visionary about it. Apple's time to shine and "be ahead of the curve" is gone with Jobs.


----------



## CaptainChaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> *BUT SPECS ARE EVERYTHING*
> So what's the point in having a better CPU if the OS is bottlenecking its performance like what you guys are saying.
> You guys are ridiculous. lol


The debate was originally about specs, no one has even seen the iPhones new display or the Lumias side by side to compare them. Therefore the conversation is about specs.


----------



## Domino

http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/12/3316830/iphone-5-release-date-specs-features-price-announcement

Not one bit excited. They have just caught on with the other suppliers and are now going to face some lawsuits.

Not interested.


----------



## doomlord52

11:08:02 AM PDT - "You can also browser your library by artist."
11:07:50 AM PDT - "Each album comes with a feature we call 'in the store' where you can see top songs and albums."

Uh... Zune has had this for almost 3 years now.


----------



## Awsan

No one is talking a rational way right not the iphone supporters or the anti-iphone please make your minds and talk some sense in to your minds


----------



## ZealotKi11er

You cant really expect much more. Now a days the only reason you really get iPhone is the way it feels and may some apps you must have. Other then that you got everything in Android months before.


----------



## ignite

Not sure what's so impressive here?

At least it's about time they released a decent Navigation for the phone.


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> You cant really expect much more. Now a days the only reason you really get iPhone is the way it feels and may some apps you must have. Other then that you got everything in Android months before.


Well, currently the iPhone is technically leading in specs. That'll be changed soon, however.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> You cant really expect much more. *Now a days the only reason you really get iPhone is the way it feels and may some apps you must have is so all of your friends and people you don't know can see how cool and sophisticated you are with your new iPhone.* Other then that you got everything in Android months before.


FTFY!


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> You cant really expect much more. Now a days the only reason you really get iPhone is the way it feels and may some apps you must have. Other then that you got everything in Android months before.


Right now the only reason to get an iPhone would be because you've invested money into the ecosystem/apps.


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> You cant really expect much more. Now a days the only reason you really get iPhone is the way it feels and may some apps you must have. Other then that you got everything in Android months before.


Honestly, yea. The people who buy this aren't going to be spec-addicts (like me). They'll see IOS and Apple, and think "Hey, I like that".


----------



## joshd

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Daily Mail .co .uk*
> It has been a long wait - but Apple has now unveiled the iPhone 5.
> Apple CEO Tim Cook, talking on the stage in San Francisco and beamed live to London, took to the stage to announce: 'We've got some really cool stuff to show you, it's an extraordinary time at Apple.'
> The latest version of the iconic smartphone comes with a four-inch screen, a camera which can take 28megapixel panoramic shots, and is the thinnest iPhone yet, at just 7.6mm.
> All of which comes, for the first time, in a package made entirely in glass and aluminium.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2202232/iPhone-5-launch-After-long-year-speculation-Apple-finally-prepares-share-iPhone-5-world.html#ixzz26HSOruze


Source


----------



## Awsan

this made me laugh ROFL


----------



## dantoddd

So what were they being 'conservative' about


----------



## kzone75

But can you still make phone calls with it? And / or can you hang up on someone faster with it?


----------



## King Lycan

Let's see some benchmarks of the A6 want to see how it performs versus the S4 Pro


----------



## Domino

Quote:


> and is the thinnest iPhone yet, at just 7.6mm.


Are they only competing with themselves? No wonder they can't beat Samsung.


----------



## ignite

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Right now the only reason to get an iPhone would be because you've invested money into the ecosystem/apps.


Too some people that's a huge reason. People invested quite a bit into it. The wife got the 4S on release, and pretty much regretted it ever since. She's pretty ecstatic about the IOS6 changes though, particularly Navigation. Hopefully it helps battery life as well.

Still not sure why 'live tiles' aren't in the OS yet if widgets aren't.


----------



## r3skyline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Oh, so it's a problem with Jellybean then? But according to you, specs shows what's better.


Uhm, yes...thats what I said. Are you attempting to dumb down the argument? Specs always show what is better. If the system is lagging, obviously its the coding. Oh and im sure google searches could show the speed differences if thats what you are wanting.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *awsan*
> 
> No one is talking a rational way right not the iphone supporters or the anti-iphone please make your minds and talk some sense in to your minds


Who is doing this?


----------



## Degree

Guys should I get the 5 or s3?
I have the 4s now but I'm giving it to my dad, so I'm in need of a new phone.


----------



## doomlord52

LIGHTNING CONNECTORSSZZZZSZSZS!!!!111

Honestly, this is what's going to happen in the next few weeks. I just hope there's actually SOME technical improvements (i.e. data rate), rather than just being a change.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Still shatters from a 2 inch drop?

Would like to see some more innovation here, that'll benefit the apple fans and android/microsoft fans because it'll make them churn out better products


----------



## AllyOmega

"We wanted to give [the New iPod] a large display..."



lol.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> You're pretty much the only person I've ever heard report smoothness issues with the Nexus 7.


It's not "smoothness issues", it's just less smooth than iOS.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> How is it ahead of the curve when they're catching up to already existing features in other phones AND there'a a slew of other phones already announced to use the Cortex A15?


I said ahead of the curve with the processor... and it's because they have it first. Plus if the graphics are twice as powerful as they are now... then they will be ahead for quite a while.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Again with this argument. Except that now with more quad core phones on the market it's almost a cert that apps with become multithreaded and thus quad cores will take the crown.
> 
> I remember this exact argument when the Core2Quad range landed. Jealous people with dual cores claiming quads weren't needed or that games/apps didn't take advantage of them. Now those same arguments are being used in the mobile world and I suspect the exact same outcome.


It doesn't matter if it's certain apps will become more multi-threaded... it still isn't doable in every app, even a lot of apps. Some games or intensive apps only for the most part. The majority of everything will benefit from better core performance than more cores.
Quote:


> Lets face it. This phone has tonnes of features already found in other phones and is playing catch up to the market. There's nothing revolutionary or visionary about it. Apple's time to shine and "be ahead of the curve" is gone with Jobs.


It's not playing catch up.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> You cant really expect much more. Now a days the only reason you really get iPhone is the way it feels and may some apps you must have. Other then that you got everything in Android months before.


Uh no.


----------



## chip94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> 11:08:02 AM PDT - "You can also browser your library by artist."
> 11:07:50 AM PDT - "Each album comes with a feature we call 'in the store' where you can see top songs and albums."
> Uh... Zune has had this for almost 3 years now.


And whenever I sync my mom's windows phone with it, I feel like destroying my pc and dev's behind zune. That software is complete BS.


----------



## dantoddd

There is a new LG phone with a kraitdragon quadcore coming out. that"ll probably be faster than this.


----------



## Dronac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> "We wanted to give [the New iPod] a large display..."
> 
> lol.


I normally like Apple's designs, but IMHO, the new nano is ugly as sin.

Loving the iPhone 5 though.


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> It's not "smoothness issues", it's just less smooth than iOS..


Every source I heard said it's as smooth, if not smoother, than iOS.


----------



## Benladesh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> It's not playing catch up.


It pretty much is. I think it's a trend thats going to get worse for apple with so much competition out there. They need to learn to compete properly and then they won't play catchup any more.


----------



## Ksireaper

Disappointed in the screen size. should have gone at least 4.5" IMO.


----------



## ImmortalKenny

That's weird, they put the Lightning connector on the side. That could interfere with universal Apple dock designs.


----------



## xoleras

Since my view of Apple is always completely objective, i'll just say that I pray to Jesus for the untimely demise of Apple. Just kidding


----------



## Oupavoc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Degree*
> 
> Guys should I get the 5 or s3?
> I have the 4s now but I'm giving it to my dad, so I'm in need of a new phone.


Try them both out in stores.


----------



## ignite

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> It's not "smoothness issues", it's just less smooth than iOS.


I'm not buying that. When I'm using the 4S for simple things like Facebook and internet browsing, it's anything but smooth.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> It's not "smoothness issues", it's just less smooth than iOS.
> I said ahead of the curve with the processor... and it's because they have it first. Plus if the graphics are twice as powerful as they are now... then they will be ahead for quite a while.
> It doesn't matter if it's certain apps will become more multi-threaded... it still isn't doable in every app, even a lot of apps. Some games or intensive apps only for the most part. The majority of everything will benefit from better core performance than more cores.
> It's not playing catch up.
> Uh no.


Proof they'll have it first? Either way, they didn't announce it first. That is NOT ahead of the curve.

And the graphics will be twice as powerful... on a pitfully low resolution. That's like boasting the graphics are twice as powerful on 800x600, when everyone else is running 1280x720 at the same FPS.

And, oh my god! Yes it does matter if apps become more mulitthreaded because that means quad cores will have a clear advantage. And even if they only have two threads, that still leaves another two threads on quads for background tasks and such for the OS and other programs! Quads are better and I'm sorry but it's just stupid to say otherwise.










I have to stop discussing this because I break the TOS. You make no sense. Multithreading apps means CPU's with more threads can take the lead. Especially when they're compariable. This isn't Bulldozer vs SandyBridge, either.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dantoddd*
> 
> So what were they being 'conservative' about


They thought they would go with a quad-core A9 at 32nm rather than a dual-core A15 at 32nm. They're going from 45nm to 32nm, and now from a completely different architecture to another.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r3skyline*
> 
> Uhm, yes...thats what I said. Are you attempting to dumb down the argument? Specs always show what is better. If the system is lagging, obviously its the coding. Oh and im sure google searches could show the speed differences if thats what you are wanting.


His point is that it isn't just "specs" which is what someone else said. The user experience has to do greatly with software as well.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> Every source I heard said it's as smooth, if not smoother, than iOS.


My dad owns one. It's not. I notice small micro stutters, it's not a problem but iOS is still smoother.


----------



## Microsis

God I cannot WAIT for the Lumia 920


----------



## perfectblade

stop making glass phones apple, please. i seriously might consider buying one if you actually made them somewhat durable.

i heard rumors that it was supposed to be made out of a unibody metal piece.


----------



## Oupavoc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ksireaper*
> 
> Disappointed in the screen size. should have gone at least 4.5" IMO.


This. Once you get used to the large screens from Andriod devices you kinda get spoiled and dont want to go back.


----------



## chip94

The new iPod touch looks so sexy! And finally a dual core processor!









More than the iPhone, I feel the iPod is the best upgrade apple has made ever. My god, look at the specs, the same as the 5 and now supports siri.


----------



## Bonkers

I just fail to see why anyone would get excited over using the same device for years and years and years? Since the iphone 4 came out the general design of the iphone has not changed. Same can be said with the 3/3g before it. The OS certainly has not changed, minor improvements here and there but thats it. I just dont get why everyone gets so hyped up over it? Atleast with Android you can go in and actually make it YOUR phone. The way you want etc and you generally get new design concepts every single year.

Never hopped on the iDevice bandwagon and I dont suppose I will start now.


----------



## F1Seb

Looks like the biggest improvement so far is that 28 megapixel camera. Will need to see some test photos of this to see how quality the sensor actually is. Will the iPhone lovers get it now since it's a 4 inch phone? I would make fun of them so much and their tiny screen and their answer always was: "I don't need to carry a TV around in my pocket, I like it now that it's small." while they pointed at my 4 inch Galaxy S. Wonder what they will think of now when I call them out on it cause I know for a fact they will still get it.


----------



## ImmortalKenny

A5 iPod Touch?

Win.


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ksireaper*
> 
> Disappointed in the screen size. should have gone at least 4.5" IMO.


I dunno, I've heard a lot of people complaining that there are no good phones in the 4.0" to 4.3" range. I like bigger phones, but not everyone does.


----------



## r3skyline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> They thought they would go with a quad-core A9 at 32nm rather than a dual-core A15 at 32nm. They're going from 45nm to 32nm, and now from a completely different architecture to another.
> His point is that it isn't just "specs" which is what someone else said. The user experience has to do greatly with software as well.
> My dad owns one. It's not. I notice small micro stutters, it's not a problem but iOS is still smoother.


His point came across to that after the discussion started. I was going off what I had quoted. Then he threw that in there. If he wanted to speak of user experience and such, then he should have stated. Not just said "specs dont always mean something is better". I can buy all the latest crap for my PC, but if i have some stupid program bogging windows/ *nix, its not going to be pretty.


----------



## Clairvoyant129

Lol at all the fanboys saying Apple is catching up.

2x Cortex A15 + SGX543MP4.

This SoC has the best per core performance + best GPU.


----------



## bbaseballboy1234

if Steve was still in health, and CEO of Apple, I doubt this disappointing product would have been released. Its nothing new, nothing special, just better than previous, but same looking phone. I believe Steve would have taken the R&D much further, and design a completely new phone.

But still, with their established fan base from marketing, they'll still sell million of theses.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> stop making glass phones apple, please. i seriously might consider buying one if you actually made them somewhat durable.
> 
> i heard rumors that it was supposed to be made out of a unibody metal piece.


... if you read, it does come with an unibody back. The front is obviously still glass.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bonkers*
> 
> I just fail to see why anyone would get excited over using the same device for years and years and years? Since the iphone 4 came out the general design of the iphone has not changed. Same can be said with the 3/3g before it. The OS certainly has not changed, minor improvements here and there but thats it. I just dont get why everyone gets so hyped up over it? Atleast with Android you can go in and actually make it YOUR phone. The way you want etc and you generally get new design concepts every single year.
> 
> Never hopped on the iDevice bandwagon and I dont suppose I will start now.


Pretty much what confuses me. After the iphone 4, nothing great has happened, and that's when Steve left the company (well passed away). And yet people will praise over this iphone 5.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Raven Dizzle*
> 
> Was actually thinking about getting one of these. I'll stick to my android phone. iDisappoint.


Same, I was in the market to get one, but eh, I'll just go get an galaxy 3s.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Degree*
> 
> Guys should I get the 5 or s3?
> I have the 4s now but I'm giving it to my dad, so I'm in need of a new phone.


If you like iOS then by all means get the iPhone 5.


----------



## dantoddd

the phones looks a little dated though. The design feels very much like 2010


----------



## MRHANDS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F1Seb*
> 
> Looks like the biggest improvement so far is that 28 megapixel camera. Will need to see some test photos of this to see how quality the sensor actually is. Will the iPhone lovers get it now since it's a 4 inch phone? I would make fun of them so much and their tiny screen and their answer always was: "I don't need to carry a TV around in my pocket, I like it now that it's small." while they pointed at my 4 inch Galaxy S. Wonder what they will think of now when I call them out on it cause I know for a fact they will still get it.


It's actually just 8 megapixels. It can take 28 Megapixel panorama shots.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> Lol at all the guys saying Apple is catching up.
> 2x Cortex A15 + SGX543MP4.
> This SoC has the best per core performance + best GPU.


It's not even out yet and they still have a massive Samsung shaped hurdle to get over regarding LTE.

And they're not the first to have announced an A15 CPU and unless they have it out before the end of the year they won't be the first.

The rest of the feature set? Catch up.


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dantoddd*
> 
> the phones looks a little dated though. The design feels very much like 2010


I hated the iPhone and this was a stupid thing to say in which means does it look like 2010???


----------



## Paladin Goo

Was actually thinking about getting one of these. I'll stick to my android phone. iDisappoint.


----------



## Churminess

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> My dad owns one. It's not. I notice small micro stutters, it's not a problem but iOS is still smoother.


I'll keep my eyes open for those, but I can't say I've noticed them at all. Only when opening tonnes of apps and flying between them at a rate beyond useful (to test for just this sort of thing) has the frame rate dipped, but still no outright stutters. What are you doing when they happen?


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> It pretty much is. I think it's a trend thats going to get worse for apple with so much competition out there. They need to learn to compete properly and then they won't play catchup any more.


In what way? They're ahead in regard to the processor (out first) and the graphics, if it's a two fold improvement like they claim.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ignite*
> 
> I'm not buying that. When I'm using the 4S for simple things like Facebook and internet browsing, it's anything but smooth.


We're talking about the OS, not apps. But nonetheless, FaceBook was using a UIWebView (which is slow) until recently, and web browsing should be fine. I have no problems whatsoever even on my iPad 3. I see micro stutters (very, very slight) on the Nexus 7.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Proof they'll have it first? Either way, they didn't announce it first. That is NOT ahead of the curve.


How is announcing it first being ahead of the curve? You'd think releasing it first would be "ahead of the curve".
Quote:


> And the graphics will be twice as powerful... on a pitfully low resolution. That's like boasting the graphics are twice as powerful on 800x600, when everyone else is running 1280x720 at the same FPS.


It's not a pitifully low resolution, it's great for the screen size. Not much point in more than 300+ PPI.
Quote:


> And, oh my god! Yes it does matter if apps become more mulitthreaded because that means quad cores will have a clear advantage. And even if they only have two threads, that still leaves another two threads on quads for background tasks and such for the OS and other programs! Quads are better and I'm sorry but it's just stupid to say otherwise.


Gah! It's not stupid. You don't listen. That quad-core won't improve ANYTHING that can't use more than two cores, which is the majority of EVERY app available. You may see more come along, but there's still heaps of areas that don't get any benefit at all! It's just a waste.


----------



## r3skyline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> It's not even out yet and they still have a massive Samsung shaped hurdle to get over regarding LTE.
> And they're not the first to have announced an A15 CPU and unless they have it out before the end of the year they won't be the first.
> The rest of the feature set? Catch up.


Itll be out probably come october or so. Just as the previous phones were


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> My dad owns one. It's not. I notice small micro stutters, it's not a problem but iOS is still smoother.


Not that your personal experience isn't true, I just trust the reviews a bit more.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> Lol at all the guys saying Apple is catching up.
> 2x Cortex A15 + SGX543MP4.
> This SoC has the best per core performance + best GPU.


My rig is vastly "slower" than many peoples here, but my screen is about 50% bigger than most peoples.

A cpu/gpu doesn't make a phone.


----------



## ignite

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> Lol at all the guys saying Apple is catching up.
> 2x Cortex A15 + SGX543MP4.
> This SoC has the best per core performance + best GPU.


My issue isn't the hardware on this revision (minus the screen), it's iOS itself. My person opinion, it's a very bland and dated feeling mobile OS with very little customization options available. Not sure why the little things aren't touched upon - such as having live weather on the weather icon since widgets won't be introduced. More options on the pulldown bar. More camera options other than flash and HDR...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> We're talking about the OS, not apps. But nonetheless, FaceBook was using a UIWebView (which is slow) until recently, and web browsing should be fine. I have no problems whatsoever even on my iPad 3. I see micro stutters (very, very slight) on the Nexus 7.:


And here lies the issue. It's OS as well. It's just not smooth feeling. Installing an app feels like ages at times. All this is anecdotal I know, but so is much of what you mention.

I can't talk about the iPad3 or N7 as I haven't used either of them. I'm not much of a tablet person. Bought a Touchpad, threw CM9 on it and still never tough it. Having a One X and 4S lying around does the job.

I will say though, there are some good changes in iOS6 that should have came a while ago. Glad it's being put in now.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

I knew i was not going to get iPhone 5 ever since iOS 6. The OS is getting old. When i get a new phone is want a upgraded OS. iOS 5 to 6 is like Android 4 to 4.1. Even that its saying too much. Take iOS 1 and compare to to iOS 6 and then Android 1 compare it 4.1 and its night and day. I hope they change the OS after 6. My iPad 3 is so boring because of that.


----------



## lacrossewacker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MRHANDS*
> 
> It's actually just 8 megapixels. It can take 28 Megapixel panorama shots.


This will fool everybody but the competent


----------



## r3skyline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> We're talking about the OS, not apps. But nonetheless, FaceBook was using a UIWebView (which is slow) until recently, and web browsing should be fine. I have no problems whatsoever even on my iPad 3. I see micro stutters (very, very slight) on the Nexus 7.


I was able to play around with the nexus 7 and s3, and i felt it was more smooth than iOS. Also, my 4S does lag when it comes to browsing. And itll be when I usually have around 2/3 tabs open. Not good.
Quote:


> How is announcing it first being ahead of the curve? You'd think releasing it first would be "ahead of the curve".


Not sure if Apple did this, but didnt they use in an argument that they announced product first, and thats how they won...


----------



## GrizzleBoy

I think we just need to come to terms with the fact that this presentation was basically made for people whose lives revolve around Apples devices.


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ignite*
> 
> My issue isn't the hardware on this revision (minus the screen), it's iOS itself. My person opinion, it's a very bland and dated feeling mobile OS with very little customization options available. Not sure why the little things aren't touched upon - such as having *live weather on the weather icon since widgets won't be introduced.* More options on the pulldown bar. More camera options other than flash and HDR...


Seriously. Why no live app icons in iOS? it seems so simple. Plus with this new hardware, I doubt it would bog anything down.


----------



## ImmortalKenny

2 people driving one car?


----------



## GAMERIG

Here is awesome hilarious!, and checkout-


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I can't think of a single time when I was using my phone and suddenly thought, "Gee this thing is great and all but man it could really use an A15 processor! Then it would be perfection!"


----------



## Clairvoyant129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> My rig is vastly "slower" than many peoples here, but my screen is about 50% bigger than most peoples.
> A cpu/gpu doesn't make a phone.


I don't care you have a 32" screen with a pitifully low resolution (1080P) and low PPI.

Resolution matters not screen size.


----------



## lordikon

iPhone 4S vs 5, comparison page.

Source


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> In what way? They're ahead in regard to the processor (out first) and the graphics, if it's a two fold improvement like they claim.
> We're talking about the OS, not apps. But nonetheless, FaceBook was using a UIWebView (which is slow) until recently, and web browsing should be fine. I have no problems whatsoever even on my iPad 3. I see micro stutters (very, very slight) on the Nexus 7.
> How is announcing it first being ahead of the curve? You'd think releasing it first would be "ahead of the curve".
> It's not a pitifully low resolution, it's great for the screen size. Not much point in more than 300+ PPI.
> Gah! It's not stupid. You don't listen. That quad-core won't improve ANYTHING that can't use more than two cores, which is the majority of EVERY app available. You may see more come along, but there's still heaps of areas that don't get any benefit at all! It's just a waste.


Yes it is stupid and I hear you but you just don't seem to want to think ahead!

If an app cannot use more than two threads... Do you think it will ALWAYS be like that? No! If it cannot use more than two threads, does that mean the rest of the device stops using the other two threads?! No! So which device is going to be more fluid?! The one with the extra oomph! Quad core's are the way forward.


----------



## AllyOmega

guys, they're FINALLY updating those earbuds. Apparently they're terrible, but I'm not a sound guy and I use them everyday.


----------



## Dronac

Ugh, the colored iPod Touch's look terrible...


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> guys, their FINALLY updating those earbuds. Apparently they're terrible, but I'm not a sound guy and I use them everyday.


They truly are the worst earphones I've ever used (fairly decent sound guy).

Also... "EarPods".... really now?


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> I don't care you have a 32" screen with a pitifully low resolution (1080P) and low PPI.
> Resolution matters not screen size.


Screen size matters as well. I prefer larger screens (concerning phones), even if they have a lower PPI.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r3skyline*
> 
> His point came across to that after the discussion started. I was going off what I had quoted. Then he threw that in there. If he wanted to speak of user experience and such, then he should have stated. Not just said "specs dont always mean something is better". I can buy all the latest crap for my PC, but if i have some stupid program bogging windows/ *nix, its not going to be pretty.


I think he was being vague intentionally, but you can see how he meant software.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> It's not even out yet and they still have a massive Samsung shaped hurdle to get over regarding LTE.
> 
> And they're not the first to have announced an A15 CPU and unless they have it out before the end of the year they won't be the first.
> 
> The rest of the feature set? Catch up.


Before the end of the year? You must have missed the shipping one week later part.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Churminess*
> 
> I'll keep my eyes open for those, but I can't say I've noticed them at all. Only when opening tonnes of apps and flying between them at a rate beyond useful (to test for just this sort of thing) has the frame rate dipped, but still no outright stutters. What are you doing when they happen?


Nothing in particular. Browsing settings, swiping home pages. They're very subtle.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> Not that your personal experience isn't true, I just trust the reviews a bit more.


Don't worry, I'm sure reviews are more thorough than the little go I had.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bbaseballboy1234*
> 
> if Steve was still in health, and CEO of Apple, I doubt this disappointing product would have been released. Its nothing new, nothing special, just better than previous, but same looking phone. I believe Steve would have taken the R&D much further, and design a completely new phone.
> 
> But still, with their established fan base from marketing, they'll still sell million of theses.


It's a greatly improved smartphone.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r3skyline*
> 
> I was able to play around with the nexus 7 and s3, and i felt it was more smooth than iOS. Also, my 4S does lag when it comes to browsing. And itll be when I usually have around 2/3 tabs open. Not good.
> 
> Not sure if Apple did this, but didnt they use in an argument that they announced product first, and thats how they won...


Totally different scenario. That's about patents, I'm simply talking about being "ahead of the curve".


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Dronac*
> 
> Ugh, the colored iPod Touch's look terrible...


The kids will love em though. Nothing wrong with choices.


----------



## Domino

When are people going to understand the purpose of a scheduler in CPU design? It doesn't matter if the application is multi-threaded or not, the extra cores benefit else where. Single threaded applications only benefit from higher IPC, not because of less cores.


----------



## Tabinhu

Will never buy something so overpriced as an Apple product


----------



## Mr Frosty

So it's the same as the 4S but made of more glass so it'll still shatter when dropped, it's thinner, has a better camera..... And??????

That screen size is a joke, I don't like this 4.7" super screens the android phones have but 4" is piss poor, 4.3" is the perfect screen size personally.

Any idea on what the resolution of the screen is?


----------



## HexATL

Dayum

1136x640 res


----------



## Clairvoyant129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Yes it is stupid and I hear you but you just don't seem to want to think ahead!
> If an app cannot use more than two threads... Do you think it will ALWAYS be like that? No! If it cannot use more than two threads, does that mean the rest of the device stops using the other two threads?! No! So which device is going to be more fluid?! The one with the extra oomph! Quad core's are the way forward.


With that mind set you should have picked up a FX-8150 instead of your 2500K?

Per core performance what matters. Besides US of A Galaxy S3s comes equipped with a dual core S4 and I didn't hear people complain. Only when Apple releases a dual core, people start moaning and whining about how their plastic phones are better.


----------



## flamingoyster

It pains me to read this thread. The hatred oozing from it is vomit-inducing.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> In what way? They're ahead in regard to the processor (out first) and the graphics, if it's a two fold improvement like they claim.
> We're talking about the OS, not apps. But nonetheless, FaceBook was using a UIWebView (which is slow) until recently, and web browsing should be fine. I have no problems whatsoever even on my iPad 3. I see micro stutters (very, very slight) on the Nexus 7.
> How is announcing it first being ahead of the curve? You'd think releasing it first would be "ahead of the curve".
> It's not a pitifully low resolution, it's great for the screen size. Not much point in more than 300+ PPI.
> Gah! It's not stupid. You don't listen. That quad-core won't improve ANYTHING that can't use more than two cores, which is the majority of EVERY app available. You may see more come along, but there's still heaps of areas that don't get any benefit at all! It's just a waste.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it is stupid and I hear you but you just don't seem to want to think ahead!
> 
> If an app cannot use more than two threads... Do you think it will ALWAYS be like that? No! If it cannot use more than two threads, does that mean the rest of the device stops using the other two threads?! No! So which device is going to be more fluid?! The one with the extra oomph! Quad core's are the way forward.
Click to expand...

No, it's not stupid. And you're not hearing me. I'm aware some apps will be updated to support a quad-core but a lot simply can't be multi-threaded like that, on top of that many things which are limited to a single-core or dual-core -- notice I say limited, not "currently supported" -- won't gain any benefit from it. But the dual-core A15 will improve everything.


----------



## doomlord52

"Now when you look at each of these, they are incredible industry leading innovation by themselves. But what sets them apart and what places us way ahead of the competition is how well they work together."

Lol.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> I don't care you have a 32" screen with a pitifully low resolution (1080P) and low PPI.
> Resolution matters not screen size.


Way to both miss the point and behave like a moron at the same time.

YOU care about PPI.

I care about not playing driving sims on a small monitor.

Long story short, it isn't better because it does what you like, its better for YOU because you like what it does.


----------



## Mr Frosty

So it's the same as the 4S but made of more glass so it'll still shatter when dropped, it's thinner, has a better camera..... And??????

That screen size is a joke, I don't like this 4.7" super screens the android phones have but 4" is piss poor, 4.3" is the perfect screen size personally.

Any idea on what the resolution of the screen is?


----------



## CaptainChaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> So it's the same as the 4S but made of more glass so it'll still shatter when dropped, it's thinner, has a better camera..... And??????
> That screen size is a joke, I don't like this 4.7" super screens the android phones have but 4" is piss poor, 4.3" is the perfect screen size personally.
> Any idea on what the resolution of the screen is?


It's a definite step up from the 4S. Not hard to see that much.


----------



## Clairvoyant129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Way to both miss the point and behave like a moron at the same time.
> YOU care about PPI.
> I care about not playing driving sims on a small monitor.
> Long story short, it isn't better because it does what you like, its better for YOU because you like what it does.


Do you understand how resolution works? Having a large screen with lower resolution doesn't change anything.


----------



## r3skyline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> iPhone 4S vs 5, comparison page.
> Source


Wait, can someone clarify this. Is the iPhone 5 NOT going to be a worldphone like the iPhone 4s?


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> So it's the same as the 4S but made of more glass so it'll still shatter when dropped, it's thinner, has a better camera..... And??????
> That screen size is a joke, I don't like this 4.7" super screens the android phones have but 4" is piss poor, 4.3" is the perfect screen size personally.
> Any idea on what the resolution of the screen is?


1136x640.

I know of a few people who think that even 4.3" is too big. 4.0 is not bad at all. I prefer 4.5" to 4.8" though.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> When are people going to understand the purpose of a scheduler in CPU design? It doesn't matter if the application is multi-threaded or not, the extra cores benefit else where. Single threaded applications only benefit from higher IPC, not because of less cores. Steelbom, stop posting.


Good grief you need to work on your reading comprehension. I didn't say they benefit from LESS cores, I said they benefit from the improved architecture. I didn't say the quad-core wouldn't be useful for multi-tasking either, I simply said that a lot of apps can't support multi-threading like that, so there's no benefit to having more cores for those apps. On top of that anything restricted to a single-core or dual-core won't benefit from it whatsoever.

The dual-core Cortex A15 will benefit everything greatly, the quad-core only a few things and it still won't top the A15 by that much in those apps which do support all four cores. You need to start actually reading before you post.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Way to both miss the point and behave like a moron at the same time.
> YOU care about PPI.
> I care about not playing driving sims on a small monitor.
> Long story short, it isn't better because it does what you like, its better for YOU because you like what it does.


Agreed. I have both 1080P and 1440P monitors that are 27" and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the pixel density of the 1080P monitor. Is 1440P better? Yes, but some people act like they simply can't look at a 27"+ monitor at 1080P which is silly...


----------



## Dronac

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> The kids will love em though. Nothing wrong with choices.


Ehh. I guess going off the popularity of kids using iPads (I know 2 year olds who can use them, albeit in a good case) I can see that.


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r3skyline*
> 
> Wait, can someone clarify this. Is the iPhone 5 NOT going to be a worldphone like the iPhone 4s?


No hard facts, but I doubt it won't be. the "world phone" was just an iPhone 4S buzzword. don't be freaked out by its omission in the iPhone 5 spec sheet.


----------



## r3skyline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Majin SSJ Eric*
> 
> Agreed. I have both 1080P and 1440P monitors that 27" and there is absolutely nothing wrong with the pixel density of the 1080P monitor. Is 1440P better? Yes, but some people act like they simply can't look at a 27"+ monitor at 1080P which is silly...


Wait, there are people that think 1080P looks bad on 27"+ monitor? Is that like saying my Sammy 53" @ 1080P sucks?


----------



## Churminess

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> Do you understand how resolution works? Having a large screen with lower resolution doesn't change anything.


The picture is physically bigger, making it easier to see.


----------



## chip94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tabinhu*
> 
> Will never buy something so overpriced as an Apple product


Lol? Can't we alteast have a nice talk over here? They just released new products, why come here and act like a nut?


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> 1136x640.
> I know of a few people who think that even 4.3" is too big. 4.0 is not bad at all. I prefer 4.5" to 4.8" though.


Yea, I personally love the size of the S3. Its basically perfect.


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *r3skyline*
> 
> Wait, there are people that think 1080P looks bad on 27"+ monitor? Is that like saying my Sammy 53" @ 1080P sucks?


Terrible comparison. You probably don't sit one to two feet away from your 53" TV.


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Yea, I personally love the size of the S3. Its basically perfect.


When I first hear 4.8" I was like, "That's huge! How can anyone use that?" Then my friend picked one up and I messed around with it. It was great. I don't have particularly big hands, either.


----------



## Mr Frosty

They're asking for trouble..


----------



## r3skyline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> No hard facts, but I doubt it won't be. the "world phone" was just an iPhone 4S buzzword. don't be freaked out by its omission in the iPhone 5 spec sheet.


Yea just needing a clarification because being in the army, I kind of need a world type phone that'll obtain service no matter what part of the world I may be.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Terrible comparison. You probably don't sit one to two feet away from your 53" TV.


Who would sit that close to a 21" monitor. Are people not aware of proper distance?

I wasnt trying to compare, I was asking for it to be cleared for me as I personally did not understand what was being discussed.


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> When I first hear 4.8" I was like, "That's huge! How can anyone use that?" Then my friend picked one up and I messed around with it. It was great. I don't have particularly big hands, either.


Yea. I've got the S2, and I first though "that seems pretty big". I got used to it pretty fast, and then when I first heard about the S3, though the same thing: "way too big". But if you put an S2 beside an S3, they're basically the same size. The S3 just uses the space better. Also its faaaaaaaast.


----------



## trulsrohk

so ummm...is nokia going to sue apple for ripping off the lumia for the look of the new nano?

Cuz for a minute there as i was scrolling thru images I was wondering why in the hell there were showing off the new Lumia....


----------



## DuckieHo

Dual-core Cortex-A15..... I'm guessing 1.2-1.3GHz clock?


----------



## Georgevonfrank

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Yea, I personally love the size of the S3. Its basically perfect.


Personally I loved the size of the S2 that was perfect for me.


----------



## steelbom

Man... the Samsung Galaxy S3 (one variant) only just got graphics more powerful than the iPhone 4S, and about the same performance at native resolution, and now the iPhone 5 is doubling that again.


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*
> 
> Dual-core Cortex-A15..... I'm guessing 1.2-1.3GHz clock?


Knowing Apple it's probably just 1GHz. They seem to like that number,


----------



## vmatt1203

LOL just saw on CNN that iPhone 5 will use 4G LTE and im pretty sure both Samsung and HTC said they will sue apple if it used LTE...

I could be wrong though...


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*
> 
> Dual-core Cortex-A15..... I'm guessing 1.2-1.3GHz clock?


Yep hopefully. And twice as powerful graphics too


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Man... the Samsung Galaxy S3 (one variant) only just got graphics more powerful than the iPhone 4S, and about the same performance at native resolution, and now the iPhone 5 is doubling that again.


Apple is totally playing catch-up.


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trulsrohk*
> 
> so ummm...is nokia going to sue apple for ripping off the lumia for the look of the new nano?
> Cuz for a minute there as i was scrolling thru images I was wondering why in the hell there were showing off the new Lumia....


Wow. Yes. Just noticed that. The 920 and the new nano look almost identical. Really.

















Nokia did that "rounded sides, flat top" thing first... should be fun.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *F1Seb*
> 
> Looks like the biggest improvement so far is that 28 megapixel camera. Will need to see some test photos of this to see how quality the sensor actually is. Will the iPhone lovers get it now since it's a 4 inch phone? I would make fun of them so much and their tiny screen and their answer always was: "I don't need to carry a TV around in my pocket, I like it now that it's small." while they pointed at my 4 inch Galaxy S. Wonder what they will think of now when I call them out on it cause I know for a fact they will still get it.


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AllyOmega*
> 
> Knowing Apple it's probably just 1GHz. They seem to like that number,


1GHz 2xCortex-A15 is not double the performance of 800MHz 2xCortex-A9 though.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *vmatt1203*
> 
> LOL just saw on CNN that iPhone 5 will use 4G LTE and im pretty sure both Samsung and HTC said they will sue apple if it used LTE...
> I could be wrong though...


LTE is a standard and subject to RAND licensing.


----------



## CaptainChaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Wow. Yes. Just noticed that. The 920 and the new nano look almost identical. Really.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nokia did that "rounded sides, flat top" thing first... should be fun.


holy balls, they did say it looked like a small phone, they never said a small Nokia phone! lol


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CaptainChaos*
> 
> holy balls, they did say it looked like a small phone, they never said a small Nokia phone! lol


If nokia/Google don't sue (or at least do something), Im going to flip a table.


----------



## Clairvoyant129

Samsung Galaxy S3 (international version only) just caught up to iPhone 4S in terms of GPU performance.

SGX543MP4, which is the same GPU used in PS Vita.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Apple is totally playing catch-up.


Mind explaining how they are playing catch up? 2x Cortex A15s offer best per core performance but GPU offers twice the performance of the best smartphones out now.


----------



## Strider_2001

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Wow. Yes. Just noticed that. The 920 and the new nano look almost identical. Really.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nokia did that "rounded sides, flat top" thing first... should be fun.


hahahahaah....what do you do when you win 1 billion in a patnent case....create a Lumia Nano.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Man... the Samsung Galaxy S3 (one variant) only just got graphics more powerful than the iPhone 4S, and about the same performance at native resolution, and now the iPhone 5 is doubling that again.
> 
> 
> 
> Apple is totally playing catch-up.
Click to expand...

Ikr? First out with a dual-core Cortex A15, twice as powerful graphics, lightest smartphone, thinnest smartphone, gah they're just so behind the times!
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> Samsung Galaxy S3 (international version only) just caught up to iPhone 4S in terms of GPU performance.
> 
> SGX543MP4, which is the same GPU used in PS Vita.


The SGX543MP4's clocks in the Vita may be slower than in the iPhone though.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> With that mind set you should have picked up a FX-8150 instead of your 2500K?
> Per core performance what matters. Besides US of A Galaxy S3s comes equipped with a dual core S4 and I didn't hear people complain. Only when Apple releases a dual core, people start moaning and whining about how their plastic phones are better.


I have the Exynos 4412 phone, not the inferior S4 phone.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> No, it's not stupid. And you're not hearing me. I'm aware some apps will be updated to support a quad-core but a lot simply can't be multi-threaded like that, on top of that many things which are limited to a single-core or dual-core -- notice I say limited, not "currently supported" -- won't gain any benefit from it. But the dual-core A15 will improve everything.


You still don't get it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> When are people going to understand the purpose of a scheduler in CPU design? It doesn't matter if the application is multi-threaded or not, the extra cores benefit else where. Single threaded applications only benefit from higher IPC, not because of less cores.


THIS.


----------



## chip94

That nano really looks hideous and similar to the lumia 920.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> So it's the same as the 4S but made of more glass so it'll still shatter when dropped, it's thinner, has a better camera..... And??????
> 
> That screen size is a joke, I don't like this 4.7" super screens the android phones have but 4" is piss poor, 4.3" is the perfect screen size personally.
> 
> Any idea on what the resolution of the screen is?


I posted a comparison sheet about 10 posts above yours, it's not the same as the 4S.
It's made of less glass actually. The screen size is not meant for you, it's meant for the average consumer. Many people want to keep it so it's not too wide to fit in the average users hand in such a way that they can use it without requiring both hands.

Bigger screen, better color reproduction, more responsive touch screen.
CPU is twice as fast.
GPU is twice as fast.
Phone is thinner.
Phone weighs ~25% less.
Both cameras are improved.
Better battery life.
Utilizes 4G/LTE, so faster wireless.
Utilized Wi-fi N, so faster wi-fi.
Will likely have twice as much RAM as well (1GB compared to 512MB in the 4S).
Speakers are smaller yet have better sound reproduction.

Those are just hardware specs, the average consumer will appreciate a lot of the iOS 6/Software improvements as well.

None of this stuff is revolutionary, but this will be more than enough for Apple to maintain its user base.


----------



## RobotDevil666

I don't know about you guys but i like it ... a lot !
Too bad my upgrade is still 11 months away








Also is it just me or iPhone 5 just slam dunked all Android phones ?


----------



## trulsrohk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Ikr? First out with a dual-core Cortex A15, twice as powerful graphics, lightest smartphone, thinnest smartphone, gah they're just so behind the times!


there is nothing game changing about the iphone 5, people will still buy it because it's apple but there is no compelling reason to buy it over other offerings from a hardware standpoint right now


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> Samsung Galaxy S3 (international version only) just caught up to iPhone 4S in terms of GPU performance.
> SGX543MP4, which is the same GPU used in PS Vita.
> Mind explaining how they are playing catch up? 2x Cortex A15s offer best per core performance but GPU offers twice the performance of the best smartphones out now.


Tegra 3 bested it a while ago.


----------



## CaptainChaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> None of this stuff is revolutionary, but this will be more than enough for Apple to maintain its user base.


So true. I think people need to realize that at this point the big two in Android and iOS both pretty much have a set user base and we wont see any major movement between the two until someone does something really revolutionary and completely changes the game. Until then, both Apple's and Google's main goal has to be maintaining that user base.


----------



## r3skyline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RobotDevil666*
> 
> I don't know about you guys but i like it ... a lot !
> Too bad my upgrade is still 11 months away
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also is it just me or iPhone 5 just slam dunked all Android phones ?


Considering all Android phones are already out and this is yet to come out... I dont think it could be a "slam dunk"


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*
> 
> 1GHz 2xCortex-A15 is not double the performance of 800MHz 2xCortex-A9 though.


good point.


----------



## Strider_2001

Long live the Lumia Nano.

But seriosuly...Did anyone else notice that they didn't really compare it to other android smartphones like they have done in the past...They just said the iphone 5 is better...

And since Tim Cook said it...It must be true right...


----------



## Clairvoyant129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Tegra 3 bested it a while ago.


And where are you getting that from? The Mali 400 in the Galaxy S3 international is superior to the garbage Tegra 3.

I have proof here:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6098/lg-optimus-4x-hd-international-quadcore-love/4

So maybe in your dreams?


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> Mind explaining how they are playing catch up?


You didn't detect the sarcasm?


----------



## Clairvoyant129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> You didn't detect the sarcasm?


Haha.


----------



## CaptainChaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *RobotDevil666*
> 
> I don't know about you guys but i like it ... a lot !
> Too bad my upgrade is still 11 months away
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also is it just me or iPhone 5 just slam dunked all Android phones ?


just you... The new iPhone is nice and a definite step up from the 4s but nothing about it makes me, or I bet any satisfied Android user want to switch over. Specifically those with a GS3, One X, Nexus, etc.

If it was slam dunking on all Android phones then you would see everyone salivating over it, not mainly just iOS users and people with older phones.


----------



## AllyOmega

"During the keynote, Apple called it the 'world's thinnest smartphone.' Actually, while the iPhone 5 is impressively thin, it is not the world's thinnest smartphone. That honor goes to the Droid Razr, which sports a 7.1mm-thin body."

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/iphone-5-apples-biggest-smartest-fastest-yet.php


----------



## 3930K

The biggest change tp iPhone since iPhone.


----------



## Droidisthebest

The new Iphone is nice, but nothing really special tbh.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> And where are you getting that from? The Mali 400 in the Galaxy S3 international is superior to the garbage Tegra 3.
> I have proof here:
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6098/lg-optimus-4x-hd-international-quadcore-love/4
> So maybe in your dreams?


ERm, let me help you make your point:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5810/samsung-galaxy-s-iii-performance-preview

is probably the link you were looking for.

Either way, meh, the GS3 performs like that at a much higher resolution than the 4S.


----------



## King Lycan

We need benchmarksssss


----------



## HaCkY




----------



## geoxile

Looks like nothing new. I'm more excited for Cortex A15 to start showing up in phones.


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Ikr? First out with a dual-core Cortex A15, twice as powerful graphics, lightest smartphone, thinnest smartphone, gah they're just so behind the times!


There are other phones in production with the A15. Samsung and Sony are just two. Apple's going to be ahead by a few months - if that.

The iPhone5 is 7.6mm thick and 112g. The Motorla Razr is actually 7.1mm thick - so it's lighter. Meanwhile the LG Optimux Black is 109g. Yes, its a very good combination, but its neither the lightest or thinnest.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> No, it's not stupid. And you're not hearing me. I'm aware some apps will be updated to support a quad-core but a lot simply can't be multi-threaded like that, on top of that many things which are limited to a single-core or dual-core -- notice I say limited, not "currently supported" -- won't gain any benefit from it. But the dual-core A15 will improve everything.
> 
> 
> 
> You still don't get it.
Click to expand...

Yes, I do. See below, again.
Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> When are people going to understand the purpose of a scheduler in CPU design? It doesn't matter if the application is multi-threaded or not, the extra cores benefit else where. Single threaded applications only benefit from higher IPC, not because of less cores.
> 
> 
> 
> THIS.
Click to expand...

No, not this. Have you even read what I said?

The quad-core won't benefit any apps which aren't able to, by design, utilise more than one or two cores. The majority of apps will be like that, only intensive apps and games will really be able to support a quad-core. That's very simple to understand. Of course the other cores will be used to multi-task, but that still doesn't matter if you're never using up more than two whole cores in the first place.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trulsrohk*
> 
> there is nothing game changing about the iphone 5, people will still buy it because it's apple but there is no compelling reason to buy it over other offerings from a hardware standpoint right now


No compelling reason to buy it over other offerings? It's got a better processor, better graphics, it's thinner and lighter... what's not better about that?


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Man... the Samsung Galaxy S3 (one variant) only just got graphics more powerful than the iPhone 4S, and about the same performance at native resolution, and now the iPhone 5 is doubling that again.


Would actually be worth talking about if...

1. Games needed that much power
2. The Adreno 320 wasn't around the corner

Games would be much much enjoyable on the S3's bigger and higher resolution screen.

And especially not worth bragging about as Apple didn't design the chip in the first place.


----------



## r3skyline

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Wow. Yes. Just noticed that. The 920 and the new nano look almost identical. Really.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nokia did that "rounded sides, flat top" thing first... should be fun.


it reminds me of the cowon j3


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Ikr? First out with a dual-core Cortex A15, twice as powerful graphics, lightest smartphone, thinnest smartphone, gah they're just so behind the times!
> 
> 
> 
> There are other phones in production with the A15. Samsung and Sony are just two. Apple's going to be ahead by a few months - if that.
> 
> The iPhone5 is 7.6mm thick and 112g. The Motorla Razr is actually 7.1mm thick - so it's lighter. Meanwhile the LG Optimux Black is 109g. Yes, its a very good combination, but its neither the lightest or thinnest.
Click to expand...

Ah right. Did I misread the Keynote? Or did it say thinnest smartphone and lightest smartphone? Reading the page on Apple.com it says thinnest iPhone and lightest iPhone...


----------



## Droidisthebest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *geoxile*
> 
> Looks like nothing new. I'm more excited for Cortex A15 to start showing up in phones.


This so much this. But I cant wait to play around with it once my mom gets it.


----------



## born2bwild

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> Would actually be worth talking about if...
> 1. Games needed that much power
> 2. The Adreno 320 wasn't around the corner
> Games would be much much enjoyable on the S3's bigger and higher resolution screen.
> And especially not worth bragging about as Apple didn't design the chip in the first place.


1. Mobile games need all the power they can get. Compare PC graphics to mobile graphics and see how much catch-up is needed.
2. A step in performance is always appreciated.

Apple does design its chips, it just doesn't manufacture them.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> Would actually be worth talking about if...
> 
> 1. Games needed that much power
> 2. The Adreno 320 wasn't around the corner
> 
> Games would be much much enjoyable on the S3's bigger and higher resolution screen.
> 
> And especially not worth bragging about as Apple didn't design the chip in the first place.


1. Since when do we not care about beautiful graphics? Now the iPhone will be able to run apps with even better quality.

2. Define right around the corner? We'll see how it stacks up against the iPhone 5 soon enough.

But still the iPhone 5 is capable of better graphics. I'd rather play Crysis on a small screen than The Sims on a large screen. (A large exaggeration but you see my point.) And it's the most powerful smartphone in regard to graphics, so yeah... doesn't matter that they don't make the graphics chip (most smartphone manufacturers don't), if it was so easy then others should try and do the same thing -- took them nearly a year to just catch up to the 4S' graphical power.


----------



## BizzareRide

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> Samsung Galaxy S3 (international version only) just caught up to iPhone 4S in terms of GPU performance.
> SGX543MP4, which is the same GPU used in PS Vita.
> Mind explaining how they are playing catch up? *2x Cortex A15s offer best per core performance* but GPU offers twice the performance of the best smartphones out now.


Compared to the 800Mhz Cortex A9's but compared to the Krait S4, there is negligible difference in CPU performance.

If this A15-based CPU is clocked at 800Mhz, it will be significantly slower than the Lumia 920 and Galaxy S3's Krait CPU.

The GPU is in a league of its own, though.


----------



## ThePath

At least on paper galaxy S3 CPU is already over 2 times as powerful as Iphone 4s

Galaxy S3 Quad core cortex-A9 @ 1.4GHz

Iphone 4s Dual core cortex-A9 @ 800MHz


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Domino*
> 
> When are people going to understand the purpose of a scheduler in CPU design? It doesn't matter if the application is multi-threaded or not, the extra cores benefit else where. Single threaded applications only benefit from higher IPC, not because of less cores.
> 
> THIS.
> 
> 
> 
> No, not this. Have you even read what I said?
> 
> The quad-core won't benefit any apps which aren't able to, by design, utilise more than one or two cores. The majority of apps will be like that, only intensive apps and games will really be able to support a quad-core. That's very simple to understand. Of course the other cores will be used to multi-task, but that still doesn't matter if you're never using up more than two whole cores in the first place.
Click to expand...

I think his point was that the phone may have 4-5 things running at once, over two cores. It's possible if it were a quad-core that overall things might be more responsive as they each get dedicated and uninterrupted CPU time. Of course, if this CPU is able to update each app more than 60 times per second, then it really doesn't matter that much.

IMO a quad-core would have benefits, but it would be at the cost of IPC performance, that is, each thread would run slower, but there would be more threads. The way iOS updates its apps, and allows apps access to cores, I don't think a quad-core would have been any more beneficial than an A6 that is much faster than the A5.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThePath*
> 
> At least on paper galaxy S3 CPU is already over 2 times as powerful as Iphone 4s
> 
> Galaxy S3 Quad core cortex-A9 @ 1.4GHz
> 
> Iphone 4s Dual core cortex-A9 @ 800MHz


That would be more than twice as powerful. If the S3 were running at 800Mhz it would be twice as powerful just because of having twice as many cores. As it stands it's theoretically 3.5x as powerful as the 4S. So if the CPU in the iPhone 5 is twice as fast, then theoretically the S3 may still be more powerful than the iPhone 5. However, how optimized the OS is will play a factor in how much of a difference this actually makes for the user.


----------



## GingerJohn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Ah right. Did I misread the Keynote? Or did it say thinnest smartphone and lightest smartphone? Reading the page on Apple.com it says thinnest iPhone and lightest iPhone...


I thought it was iPhone too, but Anand quoted the presenter as saying:
Quote:


> *10:16AM PDT* - "it's the world's thinnest _smartphone_"


Of course that could be an error on the part of the presenter or the person quoting them.

The iPhone 5 looks nice, not sure that it is enough to make me want one though. To be honest I am quite happy with my "dumb" phone right now, it makes calls, sends texts and only needs to be charged once a week.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

So from the looks of things, iPhone will have A(X) and iPad 6 months later with get the A(X)x? Also dont you guys ever wonder that good hardware needs also a good software to use? I see nothing impressive with iOS6 which would make iPhone 5 so good. All these performance improvements are just so they can keep up because iOS is designed for low end hardware because it so basic.


----------



## CaptainChaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Ah right. Did I misread the Keynote? Or did it say thinnest smartphone and lightest smartphone? Reading the page on Apple.com it says thinnest iPhone and lightest iPhone...


according to the Verge

"The world's thinnest smartphone."


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *born2bwild*
> 
> 1. Mobile games need all the power they can get. Compare PC graphics to mobile graphics and see how much catch-up is needed.
> 2. A step in performance is always appreciated.
> Apple does design its chips, it just doesn't manufacture them.


Read any review site and you'll see that mobiles are actually CPU limited in practically every way....

Adding so much GPU will only get you so far...

And compare mobile to PC..... let's compare black and white.....


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> So from the looks of things, iPhone will have A(X) and iPad 6 months later with get the A(X)x? Also dont you guys ever wonder that good hardware needs also a good software to use? I see nothing impressive with iOS6 which would make iPhone 5 so good. All these performance improvements are just so they can keep up because iOS is designed for low end hardware because it so basic.


Well, seeing how Apple updates older devices far better than any phone carrier does for Android phones, they have to make it run good on older devices with slower hardware. What's so wrong with that?


----------



## AllyOmega

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Ah right. Did I misread the Keynote? Or did it say thinnest smartphone and lightest smartphone? Reading the page on Apple.com it says thinnest iPhone and lightest iPhone...


According to the Verge live stream the exact quote was, "The world's thinnest smartphone."


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> I think his point was that the phone may have 4-5 things running at once, over two cores. It's possible if it were a quad-core that overall things might be more responsive as they each get dedicated and uninterrupted CPU time. Of course, if this CPU is able to update each app more than 60 times per second, then it really doesn't matter that much.
> 
> IMO a quad-core would have benefits, but it would be at the cost of IPC performance, that is, each thread would run slower, but there would be more threads. The way iOS updates its apps, and allows apps access to cores, I don't think a quad-core would have been any more beneficial than an A6 that is much faster than the A5.


Bit a of miss quote. But yes I've been aware of his point since the beginning of the conversation, he doesn't get mine though. Having a dual-core with a better architecture will improve everything -- but a quad-core will only improve a few things.


----------



## ryboto

their aluminum cases make so much waste...


----------



## Mr Frosty

People are also forgetting the Mali T604 which is predicted to be twice as fast or more then the Mali 400 GPU in the S3, making it the fastest GPU when it ships, even faster then the iPhone 5.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GingerJohn*
> 
> I thought it was iPhone too, but Anand quoted the presenter as saying:
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> *10:16AM PDT* - "it's the world's thinnest _smartphone_"
> 
> 
> 
> Of course that could be an error on the part of the presenter or the person quoting them.
> 
> The iPhone 5 looks nice, not sure that it is enough to make me want one though. To be honest I am quite happy with my "dumb" phone right now, it makes calls, sends texts and only needs to be charged once a week.
Click to expand...

Ha, thanks I thought that's what I saw.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> So from the looks of things, iPhone will have A(X) and iPad 6 months later with get the A(X)x? Also dont you guys ever wonder that good hardware needs also a good software to use? I see nothing impressive with iOS6 which would make iPhone 5 so good. All these performance improvements are just so they can keep up because iOS is designed for low end hardware because it so basic.


It's hardly basic.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CaptainChaos*
> 
> according to the Verge
> 
> "The world's thinnest smartphone."


Thanks, thought that's what I saw.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> Read any review site and you'll see that mobiles are actually CPU limited in practically every way....
> 
> Adding so much GPU will only get you so far...
> 
> And compare mobile to PC..... let's compare black and white.....


But now that CPU performance is doubled, then GPU performance can be doubled too? Simple.


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> But now that CPU performance is doubled, then GPU performance can be doubled too? Simple.


So if a mobile GPU is CPU limited and you double everything how is that going to remove the CPU limitation


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> But now that CPU performance is doubled, then GPU performance can be doubled too? Simple.


Doubled compared to what though. Catchphrases and buzzwords should stay in the keynote. This is OCN.

Imo its completely pointless even trying to argue anything properly without even a single benchmark on a relevant OS.

We don't even know the clocks.


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> So if a mobile GPU is CPU limited and you double everything how is that going to remove the CPU limitation


Intel are going to take over the mobile CPU market anyway...


----------



## nathris

The A6 is very likely a dual core A9 at 1.6GHz with the same PowerVR SGX 543 MP4 that's in the new iPad. That would _literally_ be 2X CPU and 2X GPU.


----------



## CaptainChaos

On the iPhone is playing catch up thing that keeps being discussed. Of course it is, just like it's ahead of the curve in a few areas. That's how the tech world works, it's very rare that you have someone release something that is not playing catch up in some capacity.


----------



## chronostorm

anybody know what the difference is between the A5X and A6 chips?


----------



## y2kcamaross

So the mini iPad wasn't discussed at all?


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> So if a mobile GPU is CPU limited and you double everything how is that going to remove the CPU limitation


Where did I say it removes the CPU limitation entirely? You said that mobile GPUs are bottlenecked by mobile CPUs, so I pointed out that Apple is raising both at the same time so we will see double the performance of the A5 in regard to graphics.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Doubled compared to what though. Catchphrases and buzzwords should stay in the keynote. This is OCN.
> 
> Imo its completely pointless even trying to argue anything properly without even a single benchmark on a relevant OS.
> 
> We don't even know the clocks.


They've been pretty accurate in the past.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nathris*
> 
> The A6 is very likely a dual core A9 at 1.6GHz with the same PowerVR SGX 543 MP4 that's in the new iPad. That would _literally_ be 2X CPU and 2X GPU.


They said it's a dual-core Cortex A15.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chronostorm*
> 
> anybody know what the difference is between the A5X and A6 chips?


A5X is a dual-core Cortex A9 at 1GHz, with the PowerVR SGX543MP4. The A6 is a dual-core Cortex A15 with what seems to be the PowerVR SGX543MP4 -- but no confirmation on the GPU yet but it seems likely as Apple has said it's twice as powerful as the A5's graphics.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> So the mini iPad wasn't discussed at all?


Nope.


----------



## DuckieHo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Ikr? First out with a dual-core Cortex A15, twice as powerful graphics, lightest smartphone, thinnest smartphone, gah they're just so behind the times!
> The SGX543MP4's clocks in the Vita may be slower than in the iPhone though.


Qualcomm's Krait was first with ARM Cortex-A15 based SoC. They design their own chips using ARM IP though so it's not technically called a Cortex-A15.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nathris*
> 
> The A6 is very likely a dual core A9 at 1.6GHz with the same PowerVR SGX 543 MP4 that's in the new iPad. That would _literally_ be 2X CPU and 2X GPU.


There was a link from Anand but it's gone now: www.anandtech.com/show/6279/apples-iphone-5-uses-a6-soc-arm-cortex-a15s-inside


----------



## y2kcamaross

What a joke,i was excited to get a mini iPad too, and all the "leaks"in the past few days made it seem like it was real, way to disappoint me Apple


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Yes, I do. See below, again.
> No, not this. Have you even read what I said?
> The quad-core won't benefit any apps which aren't able to, by design, utilise more than one or two cores. The majority of apps will be like that, only intensive apps and games will really be able to support a quad-core. That's very simple to understand. Of course the other cores will be used to multi-task, but that still doesn't matter if you're never using up more than two whole cores in the first place.
> No compelling reason to buy it over other offerings? It's got a better processor, better graphics, it's thinner and lighter... what's not better about that?


Yeah and what you've been saying is WRONG. Simple as that. Even if an App is only coded to use two threads the OVERALL DEVICE will be better off having 4 cores because of how the scheduler works as Domino said. the other cores... STILL get used. Just because an app is only coded to use two threads that doesn't mean the other cores are unused and wasted. It means the kernel can run other processes on the remaining cores. Quad cores are BETTER in today's devices!

You said:
Quote:


> Of course the other cores will be used to multi-task, but that still doesn't matter if you're never using up more than two whole cores in the first place.


What part of that makes sense to you? If an app has only two threads then the other two threads available will be used for other tasks and thus ALL threads are being used No matter whether the app is single threaded or multithreaded all threads of the device are being used and scheduled by the kernel's scheduler.

Sure enough if you're talking about purely apps then more fool you because the overall bigger picture is more important.


----------



## Mr Frosty

It can be as fast as it wants, it's still running the flop that is iOS6


----------



## Droidisthebest

Even with all these new features...

The Lumia 920 gets my vote


----------



## y2kcamaross

If it actually called the iPhone 5 and not the new iPhone? If it is Apple are hypocrites


----------



## chronostorm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> A5X is a dual-core Cortex A9 at 1GHz, with the PowerVR SGX543MP4. The A6 is a dual-core Cortex A15 with what seems to be the PowerVR SGX543MP4 -- but no confirmation on the GPU yet but it seems likely as Apple has said it's twice as powerful as the A5's graphics.


So, the GPU is probably the same, but the CPU is upgraded for the A6 vs the A5X then? If I remember right, when the A5X was announced, its GPU was stated as being twice as powerful as the GPU in the A5.


----------



## Oupavoc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Droidisthebest*
> 
> Even with all these new features...
> The Lumia 920 gets my vote


its a great phone but idk about WP8. Nokia should get an Android phone out tbh. I love there design.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> It can be as fast as it wants, it's still running the flop that is iOS6


The irony of this post


----------



## trulsrohk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> No compelling reason to buy it over other offerings? It's got a better processor, better graphics, it's thinner and lighter... what's not better about that?


nope

great...of course it is going to be faster, but there is nothing revolutionary or even a gimmick like Siri that they can market as something revolutionary

It's still too small, and the resolution is nothing to brag about (yes I know it's not necessary to have a higher resolution on a 4" screen) but I'm surprised it didn't hit 720p just for bragging rights


----------



## Z Overlord

No updated iPad 3? Rage


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> What a joke,i was excited to get a mini iPad too, and all the "leaks"in the past few days made it seem like it was real, way to disappoint me Apple


They don't talk about new iPad tech at iPhone announcements. Don't create false expectations and you won't be disappointed over things that weren't going to happen anyway.

In related news: I'm highly disappointed that I there wasn't a pile of cash in my living room this morning.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> It can be as fast as it wants, it's still running the flop that is iOS6


Apple is fairly happy with iOS, considering it makes up about 70% of all mobile app sales. Coupled with the fact that Apple is the richest corporation in history....and I'm not sure that I would call iOS a "flop".
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *trulsrohk*
> 
> It's still too small, and the resolution is nothing to brag about (yes I know it's not necessary to have a higher resolution on a 4" screen) but I'm surprised it didn't hit 720p just for bragging rights


720p would have meant a non-uniform scale when running ALL apps that currently exist, which meant that they would have either looked blurry, or would have needed black bars around all 4 sides of the application. It would've been more hassle than it was worth just to claim 720p. That, and if the screen stayed 4" it would have meant that older apps would now be smaller (visibly) than before, which affects usage in a big way (smaller UI elements to press, for example).


----------



## y2kcamaross

.


----------



## y2kcamaross

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> What a joke,i was excited to get a mini iPad too, and all the "leaks"in the past few days made it seem like it was real, way to disappoint me Apple
> 
> 
> 
> The don't talk about new iPad tech at iPhone announcements. Don't create false expectations and you won't be disappointed over things that weren't going to happen anyway.
> 
> In related news: I'm highly disappointed that I there wasn't a pile of cash in my living room this morning.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> It can be as fast as it wants, it's still running the flop that is iOS6
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Apple is fairly happy with iOS, considering it makes up about 70% of all mobile app sales. Coupled with the fact that Apple is the richest corporation in history....and I'm not sure that I would call iOS a "flop".
Click to expand...

Oh because they haven't talked about it previously means they never will? Nice logic


----------



## Oupavoc

I noticed there's no NFC?


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DuckieHo*
> 
> Qualcomm's Krait was first with ARM Cortex-A15 based SoC. They design their own chips using ARM IP though so it's not technically called a Cortex-A15.
> 
> There was a link from Anand but it's gone now: www.anandtech.com/show/6279/apples-iphone-5-uses-a6-soc-arm-cortex-a15s-inside


Ah that's for pointing that out. It's based off the A15, does it perform just as well?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> What a joke,i was excited to get a mini iPad too, and all the "leaks"in the past few days made it seem like it was real, way to disappoint me Apple


The rumours suggest the iPad mini will be announced in October.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Yeah and what you've been saying is WRONG. Simple as that. Even if an App is only coded to use two threads the OVERALL DEVICE will be better off having 4 cores because of how the scheduler works as Domino said. the other cores... STILL get used. Just because an app is only coded to use two threads that doesn't mean the other cores are unused and wasted. It means the kernel can run other processes on the remaining cores. Quad cores are BETTER in today's devices!
> 
> You said:
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the other cores will be used to multi-task, but that still doesn't matter if you're never using up more than two whole cores in the first place.
> 
> 
> 
> What part of that makes sense to you? If an app has only two threads then the other two threads available will be used for other tasks and thus ALL threads are being used No matter whether the app is single threaded or multithreaded all threads of the device are being used and scheduled by the kernel's scheduler.
> 
> Sure enough if you're talking about purely apps then more fool you because the overall bigger picture is more important.
Click to expand...

I'm no fool and It makes perfect sense.

The quad-core won't benefit the majority of all apps. It's as if you had a dual-core with the same clock speed and architecture -- no improvement whatsoever. It will only help in certain apps such as intensive apps or games. And it will only benefit the OS if you're putting a workload on it that is too much for a dual-core which is simply not realistic on a mobile device. Have you even ever done anything which has pushed all four cores past 50% usage simultaneously and consistently? Aside from benchmarks?

The dual-core Cortex A15 will benefit everything greatly -- apps, and anything which can only use one or two cores. And it will handle multi-tasking perfectly fine.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chronostorm*
> 
> So, the GPU is probably the same, but the CPU is upgraded for the A6 vs the A5X then? If I remember right, when the A5X was announced, its GPU was stated as being twice as powerful as the GPU in the A5.


That sounds right.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *y2kcamaross*
> 
> What a joke,i was excited to get a mini iPad too, and all the "leaks"in the past few days made it seem like it was real, way to disappoint me Apple
> 
> 
> 
> The don't talk about new iPad tech at iPhone announcements. Don't create false expectations and you won't be disappointed over things that weren't going to happen anyway.
> 
> In related news: I'm highly disappointed that I there wasn't a pile of cash in my living room this morning.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> It can be as fast as it wants, it's still running the flop that is iOS6
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Apple is fairly happy with iOS, considering it makes up about 70% of all mobile app sales. Coupled with the fact that Apple is the richest corporation in history....and I'm not sure that I would call iOS a "flop".
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh because they haven't talked about it previously means they never will? Nice logic
Click to expand...

Thanks, it's called extrapolation, or, an educated guess. Tends to work out more often than not.


----------



## tryceo

Wow, looking absolutely amazing. So thin, so light, so awesome. Bye bye Galaxy Nexus, hello iPhone 5.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> No updated iPad 3? Rage


Probably when iPad mini is announced.


----------



## Strider_2001

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tryceo*
> 
> Wow, looking absolutely amazing. So thin, so light, so awesome. Bye bye Galaxy Nexus, hello iPhone 5.


And then when u realize the mistake you just made...you will come back when the (Insert Nexus name) comes out...


----------



## ahhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tryceo*
> 
> Wow, looking absolutely amazing. So thin, so light, so awesome. Bye bye Galaxy Nexus, hello iPhone 5.












It's the exact same phone as the previous model only stretched. What's so amazing about that?


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Yes, I do. See below, again.
> No, not this. Have you even read what I said?
> The quad-core won't benefit any apps which aren't able to, by design, utilise more than one or two cores. The majority of apps will be like that, only intensive apps and games will really be able to support a quad-core. That's very simple to understand. Of course the other cores will be used to multi-task, but that still doesn't matter if you're never using up more than two whole cores in the first place.
> No compelling reason to buy it over other offerings? It's got a better processor, better graphics, it's thinner and lighter... what's not better about that?
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah and what you've been saying is WRONG. Simple as that. Even if an App is only coded to use two threads the OVERALL DEVICE will be better off having 4 cores because of how the scheduler works as Domino said. the other cores... STILL get used. Just because an app is only coded to use two threads that doesn't mean the other cores are unused and wasted. It means the kernel can run other processes on the remaining cores. Quad cores are BETTER in today's devices!
> 
> You said:
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Of course the other cores will be used to multi-task, but that still doesn't matter if you're never using up more than two whole cores in the first place.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What part of that makes sense to you? If an app has only two threads then the other two threads available will be used for other tasks and thus ALL threads are being used No matter whether the app is single threaded or multithreaded all threads of the device are being used and scheduled by the kernel's scheduler.
> 
> Sure enough if you're talking about purely apps then more fool you because the overall bigger picture is more important.
Click to expand...

As a programmer, you should know that it's not just black and white like that.

I remember in 2007 deciding on a CPU, I had the choice between the Q6600 and the E8400, I could have two more cores, or two less but faster cores. If you look at benchmarks from back then, the E8400 won in most benchmarks, except the ones that were highly threaded. Those were benchmarks running on an OS that were running other things as well. Bottom line, unless the OS is swamped by too many other processes (which iOS prevents currently), then faster cores will be more beneficial than adding more cores. With more cores the load is spread out more evenly, but if a two-core processor doesn't have its existing cores near 100% load, then it should have plenty of time to switch to other processes and update them.

Regardless, benchmarks will be out soon I'm sure, comparing quad-core A9s with the dual-core A15.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahhell*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *tryceo*
> 
> Wow, looking absolutely amazing. So thin, so light, so awesome. Bye bye Galaxy Nexus, hello iPhone 5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the exact same phone as the previous model only stretched. What's so amazing about that?
Click to expand...

Read the source, you'd have to be completely oblivious to believe that. Please quit trolling the thread.

It disappoints me how close-minded OCN members are about technology. Let me make this a simple and clear as possible: You don't have to have the best hardware, or even the best software to be the most profitable.

Apple knows how to run a business, knows how to gain customer loyalty, knows how to make a large profit off of their devices, knows how to give a good presentation to get the average user excited about their products. Every post in this thread about "Oh, the phone is nothing special because other phones....blah blah blah", means nothing in the big picture. 99% of people don't care, and will be perfectly happy with the phone, and it shows in the number of iPhones that Apple sells. Yes, there are other devices out there that may have better hardware in one way or another, and no, it won't really affect iPhone sales in any significant way.


----------



## Mr Frosty

So

- Its not the lightest
- Its not the thinnest
- Its screen is small
- Its OS is heavily restricted
- Your old gadgets won't work with it
- The screen resolution is below the competitions
- It doesn't really do anything the previous flagship can't
- It's made of glass
- It's fast but will be out powered soon enough
- iOS6 is still behind Android in most regards

Am I missing anything? There's not enough of a reason to move from a 4S to the 5


----------



## tryceo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahhell*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's the exact same phone as the previous model only stretched. What's so amazing about that?


It's LTE. I always wanted to get an iPhone, but they never had LTE. And now they do.


----------



## jvjessen

I have to say I'm highly disappointed with the new iPhone 5 so far.

From what I see it's just a tiny step forward, no leaping anymore.

I expected more innovation from the largest and most valuable tech company in the world. In my opinion it looks like the iPhone topped out with 3GS on functionality and 4 on design, if Apple cannot do better than this they will go the same way as Nokia and end up as the insignificant alternative they used to be.

My current phone is an iPhone, and I've been happy with it, but I've got to say, for various reasons, that my next phone will either be Android or Windows.


----------



## DCSRM

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> As a programmer, you should know that it's not just black and white like that.
> I remember in 2007 deciding on a CPU, I had the choice between the Q6600 and the E8400, I could have two more cores, or two less but faster cores. If you look at benchmarks from back then, the E8400 won in most benchmarks, except the ones that were highly threaded. Those were benchmarks running on an OS that were running other things as well. Bottom line, unless the OS is swamped by too many other processes (which iOS prevents currently), then faster cores will be more beneficial than adding more cores. With more cores the load is spread out more evenly, but if a two-core processor doesn't have its existing cores near 100% load, then it should have plenty of time to switch to other processes and update them.
> Regardless, benchmarks will be out soon I'm sure, comparing quad-core A9s with the dual-core A15.


What ^ said.

I think it is silly to bash on quad core phones simply because they arent utilized yet. If a phone is released once a year, wouldnt it be smart to plan ahead for that year?


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> I remember in 2007 deciding on a CPU, I had the choice between the Q6600 and the E8400, I could have two more cores, or two less but faster cores. If you look at benchmarks from back then, the E8400 won in most benchmarks, except the ones that were highly threaded. Those were benchmarks running on an OS that were running other things as well. Bottom line, unless the OS is swamped by too many other processes (which iOS prevents currently), then faster cores will be more beneficial than adding more cores. With more cores the load is spread out more evenly, but if a two-core processor doesn't have its existing cores near 100% load, then it should have plenty of time to switch to other processes and update them.


In 2007 quad cores were still stupidly new and the OS's around at that time were not coded or updated to take advantage of the extra cores, the same is not true in 2012 on mobiles.


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tryceo*
> 
> It's LTE. I always wanted to get an iPhone, but they never had LTE. And now they do.


It won't be for long, HTC and Samsung are going to rip it to shreds....


----------



## 3930K

I'd just like to take a moment and say: Holy crap.

And no I'm not talking about the iPhone.
Quote:


> 86 Members, 54 Guests
> (MAB) 3930K Alatar AllyOmega Andr3az Atham Aventadoor Aznboy1993 Badboyz BeerPowered BizzareRide Cantii CaptainChaos Cobolt005 ComradeNF DirectXtreme Domeaphilia DrHairyPants Droidisthebest Fallendreams Frank08 GTRagnarok GingerJohn GrizzleBoy JBlock Jtvd78 Keebin King Lycan Kinville Mad Pistol MangosTea Microsis Mobius01 Moynesy Mr Frosty Mr Sprinkles Mr. Mention Paravan RobotDevil666 Ross_uk Rubers SammichThyme Sebofdoom Stemnin Strider_2001 Tanid ThePath Toy Machine Traxor ZealotKi11er anershay awsan bbaseballboy1234 bomberjun born2bwild chip94 daffy.duck doomlord52 driftingforlife farmdve frankth3frizz gameworm goldman11 hammy67 itzhoovEr kremtok krz94 kzone75 lacrossewacker lordikon nathris note235 r3skyline razorguy spacep0pe speedzilla steelbom strollingchimp subliminally incorrect tafkar thunder1 trulsrohk veblen vmatt1203 wierdo124 xeekei


----------



## tryceo

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> It won't be for long, HTC and Samsung are going to rip it to shreds....


The iPad already has 4G, and they haven't done anything yet. I highly doubt they are going to do anything now.


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tryceo*
> 
> The iPad already has 4G, and they haven't done anything yet. I highly doubt they are going to do anything now.


They didn't have reason too then but after the results of the court case it's on like Donkey Kong now...


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Ah that's for pointing that out. It's based off the A15, does it perform just as well?
> The rumours suggest the iPad mini will be announced in October.
> I'm no fool and It makes perfect sense.
> The quad-core won't benefit the majority of all apps. It's as if you had a dual-core with the same clock speed and architecture -- no improvement whatsoever. It will only help in certain apps such as intensive apps or games. And it will only benefit the OS if you're putting a workload on it that is too much for a dual-core which is simply not realistic on a mobile device. Have you even ever done anything which has pushed all four cores past 50% usage simultaneously and consistently? Aside from benchmarks?
> The dual-core Cortex A15 will benefit everything greatly -- apps, and anything which can only use one or two cores. And it will handle multi-tasking perfectly fine.
> That sounds right.


lol, yeah, iOS apps because there are no quad core iOS devices. You're having yourself on, here. I think you know we're right you're just eaten up in the moment of the new release to admit it.

And yeah quite a few games take advantage of and push the quad core. Dead Trigger, Shadowgun, Riptide GP (especially when enabling the Tegra 3 effects, on the SGS3,for Dead Trigger and Riptide.) It's not unrealistic for a mobile device. Seriously, are you just kidding yourself here?


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> So
> 
> - Its not the lightest
> - Its not the thinnest
> - Its screen is small
> - Its OS is heavily restricted
> - Your old gadgets won't work with it
> - The screen resolution is below the competitions
> - It doesn't really do anything the previous flagship can't
> - It's made of glass
> - It's fast but will be out powered soon enough
> - iOS6 is still behind Android in most regards
> 
> Am I missing anything? There's not enough of a reason to move from a 4S to the 5


Most people won't be moving from the 4S to the 5. Just like most people didn't move from the 4 to the 4S. That didn't make the 4S a bad phone, or stop it from breaking sales records.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> I remember in 2007 deciding on a CPU, I had the choice between the Q6600 and the E8400, I could have two more cores, or two less but faster cores. If you look at benchmarks from back then, the E8400 won in most benchmarks, except the ones that were highly threaded. Those were benchmarks running on an OS that were running other things as well. Bottom line, unless the OS is swamped by too many other processes (which iOS prevents currently), then faster cores will be more beneficial than adding more cores. With more cores the load is spread out more evenly, but if a two-core processor doesn't have its existing cores near 100% load, then it should have plenty of time to switch to other processes and update them.
> 
> 
> 
> In 2007 quad cores were still stupidly new and the OS's around at that time were not coded or updated to take advantage of the extra cores, the same is not true in 2012 on mobiles.
Click to expand...

OSes have been coded for multi-threaded for years. Many years before 2007. It's the 3rd party applications that weren't written to take more advantage of it. Even today an E8400 will still outperform a Q6600 in most cases, as far as I know.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> As a programmer, you should know that it's not just black and white like that.
> 
> I remember in 2007 deciding on a CPU, I had the choice between the Q6600 and the E8400, I could have two more cores, or two less but faster cores. If you look at benchmarks from back then, the E8400 won in most benchmarks, except the ones that were highly threaded. Those were benchmarks running on an OS that were running other things as well. Bottom line, unless the OS is swamped by too many other processes (which iOS prevents currently), then faster cores will be more beneficial than adding more cores. With more cores the load is spread out more evenly, but if a two-core processor doesn't have its existing cores near 100% load, then it should have plenty of time to switch to other processes and update them.
> 
> Regardless, benchmarks will be out soon I'm sure, comparing quad-core A9s with the dual-core A15.


Exactly this.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> So
> 
> - Its not the lightest
> - Its not the thinnest
> - Its screen is small
> - Its OS is heavily restricted
> - Your old gadgets won't work with it
> - The screen resolution is below the competitions
> - It doesn't really do anything the previous flagship can't
> - It's made of glass
> - It's fast but will be out powered soon enough
> - iOS6 is still behind Android in most regards
> 
> Am I missing anything? There's not enough of a reason to move from a 4S to the 5


It's close to the lightest and substantially lighter than the 4S, and the same is true for thinness. The best display size is highly subjective, as is the best OS. There's an accessory for that. The screen resolution doesn't matter so much -- pixel density does and it's high enough that very diminishing benefit would be gained from increasing it any further. The same is true of pretty much any Android smartphone too -- in regard to not really doing anything the previous flagship can't. It's very fast, but it took nearly a year for anyone to trump the 4S' graphical power, so maybe not in that regard. Again highly subjective.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> lol, yeah, iOS apps because there are no quad core iOS devices. You're having yourself on, here. I think you know we're right you're just eaten up in the moment of the new release to admit it.
> 
> And yeah quite a few games take advantage of and push the quad core. Dead Trigger, Shadowgun, Riptide GP (especially when enabling the Tegra 3 effects, on the SGS3,for Dead Trigger and Riptide.) It's not unrealistic for a mobile device. Seriously, are you just kidding yourself here?


I'm talking about Android apps. And no, I have had the opinion for a year or more that a dual-core with a better architecture trumps a quad-core with a worse architecture for the majority of all tasks.

Games. Right. What were the two things I said can utilise a quad-core? Games, and intensive apps. But not much else.


----------



## zephiK

Nothing new at all..... just all marketing when Android OS already had the majority of these features within previous versions.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tryceo*
> 
> The iPad already has 4G, and they haven't done anything yet. I highly doubt they are going to do anything now.


Cheaper to ban two devices in one case.


----------



## kiwiasian

100 Mbps LTE? Yeah...no.

There's no way a cellular data connection is more than five times as fast as the internet I pay $60 for every month


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tryceo*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> It won't be for long, HTC and Samsung are going to rip it to shreds....
> 
> 
> 
> The iPad already has 4G, and they haven't done anything yet. I highly doubt they are going to do anything now.
Click to expand...

They'd rather spend LESS legal fees joining it into 1 lawsuit,


----------



## Mad Pistol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> So
> - Its not the lightest
> - Its not the thinnest
> - Its screen is small
> - Its OS is heavily restricted
> - Your old gadgets won't work with it
> - The screen resolution is below the competitions
> - It doesn't really do anything the previous flagship can't
> - It's made of glass
> - It's fast but will be out powered soon enough
> - iOS6 is still behind Android in most regards
> Am I missing anything? There's not enough of a reason to move from a 4S to the 5


LTE sounds like the big reason to move, but if I remember correctly, Samsung and other patent holders will eat Apple's lunch very soon for not seeking licenses for their tech. In other words, the iPhone5 is going to be a bloodbath for Apple... and not in a good way.


The screen is still sub 720P (which is basically a standard now)
The phone is still too small (4.3-4.7" is the sweet spot IMO)
No "breathtaking" new features (The iPhone 4 had a dazzling screen, this one is just an evolution of that design.)
Battery-life is only "good"
It's not the thinnest smartphone
It's not the lightest smartphone
It doesn't look distinctly different from the 4(S).

I'm trying really hard to come up with a reason that I would want to buy this phone over a competing Android/WP device, and I just can't find it. There really is no good reason to buy this outside of already having bought into the iOS ecosystem with previous devices.

The only thing that is truly good about it is that this time, Apple doesn't have an exclusive deal with AT&T, so the phone will be on most carriers from the get-go. However, since I'm not even remotely interested in purchasing this phone, that's a moot point.

From what I can see, this phone goes toe-to-toe with the Galaxy S3, but it does not beat it by any stretch of the imagination. Sure the CPU/GPU is faster (on paper), but the GS3 has a bigger screen, and more pixel real-estate @ full 720P resolution.

Apple can't ride this wave forever, and it looks like the iPhone 4(S) might have been the peak of their time in the mobile industry. The iPhone 5 looks good, but it isn't even remotely close to the jump the iP4 was. So lets wait and see what reviewers think about it (they will probably gush about it just because it's the new iPhone), but honestly, the iP5 is passable.


----------



## KenjiS

I'll give a different perspective then, I was an iPhone 4 user and I have to say had I actually waited for the Apple announcement... I'd be buying a Galaxy Nexus or S3 anyways... (Which many of you know, I did in fact buy my Galaxy Nexus a few months ago..been loving it since)

I just dont see anything about it that the competition isnt already doing anymore... a lot of the stuff Apple's announced is sadly them playing "Lets Catch Up To Android" instead of actually being innovative about anything.. Faster processor sounds probubly on the level of the S4 used in most of the new Android sets, 4.0" screen is another "catch up to android" thing since most android sets use 4.0"+ screens these days, LTE has been in other OSes for a while now, although i will counter that by pointing out most people dont even have LTE now (It was just switched on where I live last month or so..)

Well ok, Apples being innovative about one thing, introducing new "standards" like Nano-SIM and Lightning which now means you have to go buy alllll new accessories for your phone or spend $30 on an adapter to make them work... instead of just adhering to standards like using Micro-USB and Bluetooth for audio docks instead... Also the screen aspect ratio is -what- now? All they did was add another line of icons.. Not entirely sure but i think that means im going to have big black bars whenever i watch video on it.. I didnt pay to get a bigger screen just to fill it with black bars all the time...

And for the record, That actually kinda makes me mad, I almost wanted part of myself to sit there and go "Darn thats really neat I wish I waited for the iPhone" because thats what new products should do in my opinion, they should make you want them.. the iPhone however just made me go "Well im happy i bought and have been enjoying my Nexus for the last few months then"


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> I'd just like to take a moment and say: Holy crap.
> And no I'm not talking about the iPhone.


That's nothing


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> As a programmer, you should know that it's not just black and white like that.
> I remember in 2007 deciding on a CPU, I had the choice between the Q6600 and the E8400, I could have two more cores, or two less but faster cores. If you look at benchmarks from back then, the E8400 won in most benchmarks, except the ones that were highly threaded. Those were benchmarks running on an OS that were running other things as well. Bottom line, unless the OS is swamped by too many other processes (which iOS prevents currently), then faster cores will be more beneficial than adding more cores. With more cores the load is spread out more evenly, but if a two-core processor doesn't have its existing cores near 100% load, then it should have plenty of time to switch to other processes and update them.
> Regardless, benchmarks will be out soon I'm sure, comparing quad-core A9s with the dual-core A15.
> Read the source, you'd have to be completely oblivious to believe that. Please quit trolling the thread.
> It disappoints me how close-minded OCN members are about technology. Let me make this a simple and clear as possible: You don't have to have the best hardware, or even the best software to be the most profitable.
> Apple knows how to run a business, knows how to gain customer loyalty, knows how to make a large profit off of their devices, knows how to give a good presentation to get the average user excited about their products. Every post in this thread about "Oh, the phone is nothing special because other phones....blah blah blah", means nothing in the big picture. 99% of people don't care, and will be perfectly happy with the phone, and it shows in the number of iPhones that Apple sells. Yes, there are other devices out there that may have better hardware in one way or another, and no, it won't really affect iPhone sales in any significant way.


Right but knowing how many quad core phones there now exist in the Android space (20 million GS3's in 100 days and lord knows how many quad core HTC One X's). It makes perfect sense to me that apps will be optimised for this in good time. Also, all early benchmarks for these show the quad core A9 coming just above the Krait CPU's which have a higher IPC and are better clock for clock (core for core) but the combination of all cores is enough to best them.

Also, I wonder where those same dual core CPU's would come now against those exact same CPU's in modern games now they're more multi-threaded?


----------



## Segovax

Hopefully all shipments get held at the border as Apple has not licensed the LTE technology they are incorporating in the phone. Sweet justice.


----------



## KenjiS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kiwiasian*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 100 Mbps LTE? Yeah...no.
> There's no way a cellular data connection is more than five times as fast as the internet I pay $60 for every month


its the theoretical limit, LTE is theoretically capable of 100mbps but in practice you're looking at 30-40mbps at best right now


----------



## KenjiS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> LTE sounds like the big reason to move, but if I remember correctly, Samsung and other patent holders will eat Apple's lunch very soon for not seeking licenses for their tech. In other words, the iPhone5 is going to be a bloodbath for Apple... and not in a good way.
> .


Just wondering got a link to that?


----------



## Mad Pistol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KenjiS*
> 
> Just wondering got a link to that?


http://www.zdnet.com/samsung-to-sue-apple-over-4g-lte-in-iphone-5-7000004015/

Enjoy.


----------



## KenjiS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> http://www.zdnet.com/samsung-to-sue-apple-over-4g-lte-in-iphone-5-7000004015/
> Enjoy.


I kinda hope this happens


----------



## Clairvoyant129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> lol, yeah, iOS apps because there are no quad core iOS devices. You're having yourself on, here. I think you know we're right you're just eaten up in the moment of the new release to admit it.
> And yeah quite a few games take advantage of and push the quad core. Dead Trigger, Shadowgun, Riptide GP (especially when enabling the Tegra 3 effects, on the SGS3,for Dead Trigger and Riptide.) It's not unrealistic for a mobile device. Seriously, are you just kidding yourself here?


You keep talking about how much superior Cortex A9 quads are but you're forgetting the fact that the A6 SoC sports a PowerVR SGX543MP4 (same GPU as the PS Vita), which will be at least twice as fast as your international S3's Mali 400.

I rather much take a dual core Cortex A15s + SGX543MP4 over a slightly faster CPU in multi-threaded apps + a much slower GPU.

And all those games you listed will benefit more from the superior GPU over the A9 quad.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> You keep talking about how much superior Cortex A9 quads are but you're forgetting the fact that the A6 SoC sports a PowerVR SGX543MP4 (same GPU as the PS Vita), which will be at least twice as fast as your international S3's Mali 400.
> I rather much take a dual core Cortex A15s + SGX543MP4 over a slightly faster CPU in multi-threaded apps + a much slower GPU.


Until the next faster phone comes out.

Being faster than the last phone out is not a revolutionary step. Its common sense. Especially for a company as huge as Apple.

In terms actually evolving the smartphone industry phone feature wise, the iphone 5 is certainly playing catch up.


----------



## KenjiS

^- i gotta agree, From the benchmarks i've seen and everything (I cant get my hands on an actual quad core phone and i dont think theres a single one in the US) the Snapdragon S4 dual core is just as good as any of the quads on the market in most tasks...and a lot more power efficient


----------



## Mr Frosty

The 4S on top of the 5...


----------



## Clairvoyant129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Until the next faster phone comes out.
> Being faster than the last phone out is not a revolutionary step. Its common sense. Especially for a company as huge as Apple.
> In terms actually evolving the smartphone industry phone feature wise, the iphone 5 is certainly playing catch up.


Galaxy S3 and iPhone 5 are both new phones, out this year (few months apart). How are they old again?









Keep telling yourself that.


----------



## Mad Pistol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> The 4S on top of the 5...


Is it just me, or does the 4S look better?


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> You keep talking about how much superior Cortex A9 quads are but you're forgetting the fact that the A6 SoC sports a PowerVR SGX543MP4 (same GPU as the PS Vita), which will be at least twice as fast as your international S3's Mali 400.
> I rather much take a dual core Cortex A15s + SGX543MP4 over a slightly faster CPU in multi-threaded apps + a much slower GPU..


That's like saying you would sooner play your PC games at 1920x1080 with a GTX 680 instead of 2560x1440 on a 7950...


----------



## Clairvoyant129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> Is it just me, or does the 4S look better?


Looks better than a majority of the Android phones made out of plastic though.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Until the next faster phone comes out.
> Being faster than the last phone out is not a revolutionary step. Its common sense. Especially for a company as huge as Apple.
> In terms actually evolving the smartphone industry phone feature wise, the iphone 5 is certainly playing catch up.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> Galaxy S3 and iPhone 5 are both new phones, out this year (few months apart). How are they old again?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Keep telling yourself that.


Was there supposed to be some kind of relevance to your post?

What part of my post are you replying to specifically?


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tryceo*
> 
> Wow, looking absolutely amazing. So thin, so light, so awesome. Bye bye Galaxy Nexus, hello iPhone 5.


Your contract is over already?


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Until the next faster phone comes out.
> Being faster than the last phone out is not a revolutionary step. Its common sense. Especially for a company as huge as Apple.
> In terms actually evolving the smartphone industry phone feature wise, the iphone 5 is certainly playing catch up.


I stopped even looking at his posts considering how aggressive and arrogant he's been all this thread.


----------



## Clairvoyant129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> That's like saying you would sooner play your PC games at 1920x1080 with a GTX 680 instead of 2560x1440 on a 7950...


You're comparing 2560x1440 and 1920x1080 to 1136 x 640 and 1280 x 720? Really?


----------



## Mad Pistol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> Looks better than a majority of the Android phones made out of plastic though.


Carbon fibre, Kevlar, etc.

Certain models go pretty exotic. Apple just uses glass and aluminum, and how expensive are those materials again?

Here's a hint: they're dirt cheap.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Until the next faster phone comes out.
> 
> Being faster than the last phone out is not a revolutionary step. Its common sense. Especially for a company as huge as Apple.
> 
> In terms actually evolving the smartphone industry phone feature wise, the iphone 5 is certainly playing catch up.


Except the SGS3 only trumped the 4S recently, and now only a short while after the SGS3's been out the iPhone 5 will be doubling GPU performance again.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> You keep talking about how much superior Cortex A9 quads are but you're forgetting the fact that the A6 SoC sports a PowerVR SGX543MP4 (same GPU as the PS Vita), which will be at least twice as fast as your international S3's Mali 400.
> I rather much take a dual core Cortex A15s + SGX543MP4 over a slightly faster CPU in multi-threaded apps + a much slower GPU..


This.


----------



## KenjiS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> Looks better than a majority of the Android phones made out of plastic though.


Unfortunately i do agree here...







the iPhone 5 is a pretty good looking phone..

However I also would point out just about anyone who buys it is going to probubly stick it in some gaudy looking case and you'll never get to see the "beauty" of it...

And personally i prefer a phone to not scream "im rich, mug me" which is why my iphone always was in something that made it look like a generic brick... so yeah XD

Android needs to get more attractive phones, But at the same time this will likely mean we give up things like replaceable batteries and expandable memory cards...


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> You're comparing 2560x1440 and 1920x1080 to 1136 x 640 and 1280 x 720? Really?


I'm sure even you could still understand the lesson and moral of my example, Or would you like me to draw it in a picture in MS paint for you?


----------



## Mad Pistol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> You stopped looking because you know the A6 SoC is superior to SoC found in the international S3.


The software makes or breaks a phone, not the specs.

Your point is irrelevant.

Also, I know of a lot of current iPhone owners that aren't going to be too happy about the black borders around all legacy apps. That's going to suck.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Except the SGS3 only trumped the 4S recently, and now only a short while after the SGS3's been out the iPhone 5 will be doubling GPU performance again.


Yet you fail to realise that my point was that trumping another phone in terms of harware is not revolutionary, hence why nobody called it such when the S3 "trumped" the 4S and why people are reluctant to do so now. Apple doesn't get to have that status simply "because Apple did it/said so".

In terms of actually moving smartphone industry forward, iPhone 5 is playing catch up.


----------



## KenjiS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> The software makes or breaks a phone, not the specs.
> Your point is irrelevant.
> Also, I know of a lot of current iPhone owners that aren't going to be too happy about the black borders around all legacy apps. That's going to suck.


The legacy apps will get fixed in no time though, My thing is say you play a video on it, How much of that 4" screen is going to be consumed by black bars unless you zoom/crop half the image away?


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Also, I wonder where those same dual core CPU's would come now against those exact same CPU's in modern games now they're more multi-threaded?


I was wondering the same thing, I'd like to see a Q6600 against an E8400 in BF3.


----------



## Clairvoyant129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> The software makes or breaks a phone, not the specs.
> Your point is irrelevant.
> Also, I know of a lot of current iPhone owners that aren't going to be too happy about the black borders around all legacy apps. That's going to suck.


You keep telling yourself that.

There are plenty of apps and games that takes advantage of the dual core + the PowerVR GPU.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KenjiS*
> 
> The legacy apps will get fixed in no time though, My thing is say you play a video on it, How much of that 4" screen is going to be consumed by black bars unless you zoom/crop half the image away?


Never thought about that.

How are they dealing with video playback.


----------



## ahhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> Carbon fibre, Kevlar, etc.
> Certain models go pretty exotic. Apple just uses glass and aluminum, and how expensive are those materials again?
> Here's a hint: they're dirt cheap.


Not to mention that other phones can survive being dropped.


----------



## Malcolm

I gotta say, I like the slate-gray iPod touch. Not that I'm actually going to buy it, but that new design is SO much better than that god-awful polished-mirror finish of the older models that gets scratched by the air molecules in a gentle breeze.


----------



## Mad Pistol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KenjiS*
> 
> The legacy apps will get fixed in no time though, My thing is say you play a video on it, How much of that 4" screen is going to be consumed by black bars unless you zoom/crop half the image away?


My question is are 720P videos going to be down scaled properly? 640P is a pretty odd resolution. 800x480, 960x540, and 1280x720 are the most common resolutions for a smartphone, and have been for some time now. 1154x640 is a weird one.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> *You keep telling yourself that.*
> There are plenty of apps and games that takes advantage of the dual core + the PowerVR GPU.


Best response all day. I'm right and you know it.









A phone can have the best specs in the world, but if the software that runs it sucks, it will render the phone virtually useless. On the flipside, a phone can have mediocre specs and great software/OS running it, and the phone will be amazing.

The software that runs the SGSIII is top notch. The software that runs all iPhones is also very good. The game is not about who can push the best specs, but rather who can push the best experience, and Android has come a long way since the iPhone 4 was released.

Game on.


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ahhell*
> 
> Not to mention that other phones can survive being dropped.


I'm pretty sure that a lot Android phones use glass on top of the screens that can shatter when dropped too.


----------



## abdidas

anywhere to watch it online?

EDIT: screw it, am not gonna waste my time


----------



## Mr Frosty

3GS

- Upped the screen quality way above anything else available
- Upped the speed and responsiveness way above anything else
- Had software that was ahead of everything

4

- Innovative screen that had a crispness and clarity that was unmatched
- Set a new benchmark for design
- Set another new benchmark for phone thickness

4S + 5

- Where's all the innovative ideas that truly push the industry forward?
- Faster hardware? Hardly an industry innovation
- LTE? Been around for ages has as panoramic camera mode


----------



## KenjiS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> You keep telling yourself that.
> There are plenty of apps and games that takes advantage of the dual core + the PowerVR GPU.


A good arguement i could use here is simply the massive installed user base on iOS, if Apple made a phone featuring a 6 core CPU and 6 core GPU lets say, then you bet your rear that developers would rapidly make software that takes advantage of these things...

The same is true on Android to an extent, if enough Android devices are shipped using a specific hardware platform then more stuff is going to be coded to take advantage of that particular hardware's strengths.. the difference is that since Android has a lot more variety in configurations that sometimes developers have to get a bit more choosy...

THat said i dont know the specifics of smartphone apps and if they're multithreaded or not... What I will say is that with a smartphone I'd be a bit more concerned with power consumption and thermal efficiency because those two things are a little harder to do than "Will it run fast"







Also i dont want my phone to give me 3rd degree burns because the designer aluminium casing/antenna now also functions as a heatsink


----------



## Rubers

The thing is, devs develop for the iPhone first, Android second. So, what I see good coming from this is the better GPU in this IP5 pushing the envelope for games, and thus that trickles down to Android games too.


----------



## KenjiS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> I'm pretty sure that a lot Android phones use glass on top of the screens that can shatter when dropped too.


Correct, my Galaxy Nexus has a Gorilla Glass screen as do many of the other android smartphones

The truth about damage is it can be so random what will be the "Breaking point", My mom ran over her iPhone 3GS with her car and while the screen cracked a hair it still works perfectly fine, even now... but I've seen iphones shatter from a 3 inch drop... So yeah...


----------



## CaptainChaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> Looks better than a majority of the Android phones made out of plastic though.


That's really subjective. I like the look of my Galaxy Nexus over the iPhone 4S. I also enjoy the fact that it's far more durable since I wont be putting it up for display and I'll actually be using it.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Yet you fail to realise that my point was that trumping another phone in terms of harware is not revolutionary, hence why nobody called it such when the S3 "trumped" the 4S and why people are reluctant to do so now. Apple doesn't get to have that status simply "because Apple did it/said so".
> 
> In terms of actually moving smartphone industry forward, iPhone 5 is playing catch up.


No one in this thread has said it's revolutionary. The SGS3 only just caught up to the iPhone 4S in terms of graphics, and now the 5 has set the new standard... it's not playing catch up in that regard. It's incredibly thin, light, and powerful.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> Best response all day. I'm right and you know it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A phone can have the best specs in the world, but if the software that runs it sucks, it will render the phone virtually useless.
> 
> The software that runs the SGSIII is top notch. The software that runs all iPhones is also very good. The game is not about who can push the best specs, but rather who can push the best experience, and Android has come a long way since the iPhone 4 was released.
> 
> Game on.


But with regard to games it comes down to graphics. And that's something the iPhone 5 is touting.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> 3GS
> 
> - Upped the screen quality way above anything else available
> - Upped the speed and responsiveness way above anything else
> - Had software that was ahead of everything
> 
> 4
> 
> - Innovative screen that had a crispness and clarity that was unmatched
> - Set a new benchmark for design
> - Set another new benchmark for phone thickness
> 
> 4S + 5
> 
> - Where's all the innovative ideas that truly push the industry forward?
> - Faster hardware? Hardly an industry innovation
> - LTE? Been around for ages has as panoramic camera mode


Powerful graphics will push the industry forward, and in one of the thinnest and lightest smartphones available.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KenjiS*
> 
> A good arguement i could use here is simply the massive installed user base on iOS, if Apple made a phone featuring a 6 core CPU and 6 core GPU lets say, then you bet your rear that developers would rapidly make software that takes advantage of these things...
> The same is true on Android to an extent, if enough Android devices are shipped using a specific hardware platform then more stuff is going to be coded to take advantage of that particular hardware's strengths.. the difference is that since Android has a lot more variety in configurations that sometimes developers have to get a bit more choosy...
> THat said i dont know the specifics of smartphone apps and if they're multithreaded or not... What I will say is that with a smartphone I'd be a bit more concerned with power consumption and thermal efficiency because those two things are a little harder to do than "Will it run fast"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also i dont want my phone to give me 3rd degree burns because the designer aluminium casing/antenna now also functions as a heatsink


^Exactly








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> The thing is, devs develop for the iPhone first, Android second. So, what I see good coming from this is the better GPU in this IP5 pushing the envelope for games, and thus that trickles down to Android games too.


----------



## Foolsmasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> 3GS
> - Upped the screen quality way above anything else available
> - Upped the speed and responsiveness way above anything else
> - Had software that was ahead of everything
> 4
> - Innovative screen that had a crispness and clarity that was unmatched
> - Set a new benchmark for design
> - Set another new benchmark for phone thickness
> 4S + 5
> - Where's all the innovative ideas that truly push the industry forward?
> - Faster hardware? Hardly an industry innovation
> - LTE? Been around for ages has as panoramic camera mode


I tend to agree with you, but I really can't think where else to innovate right now. Lighter, thinner, faster is almost always welcomed.

Maybe someone more creative than me can chime in? Lol


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> 3GS
> 
> - Upped the screen quality way above anything else available
> - Upped the speed and responsiveness way above anything else
> - Had software that was ahead of everything
> 
> 4
> 
> - Innovative screen that had a crispness and clarity that was unmatched
> - Set a new benchmark for design
> - Set another new benchmark for phone thickness
> 
> 4S + 5
> 
> - Where's all the innovative ideas that truly push the industry forward?
> - Faster hardware? Hardly an industry innovation
> - LTE? Been around for ages has as panoramic camera mode


It was easier to innovate near the beginning of the iPhone era, it was glaringly obvious what things needed improvement. What innovations are you suggesting that they make now?

Things I would have liked to see:
- Even better battery life
- NFC charging (wireless charging)
- A larger screen (even though the size is right for most, I personally would like bigger)

None of those are revolutionary though. I'm not sure what kind of revolutionary changes everyone is expecting over 11 months since the iPhone 4S.

I also hate the double standards. When the Samsung Galaxy S3 came out it wasn't revolutionary I didn't see 400+ post threads about it.


----------



## Mad Pistol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> But with regard to games it comes down to graphics. And that's something the iPhone 5 is touting.


You're right, but if you're buying the iPhone 5 solely on the grounds that it can play games better, you're doing it wrong. That's not what phones are designed to do.


----------



## KenjiS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> My question is are 720P videos going to be down scaled properly? 640P is a pretty odd resolution. 800x480, 960x540, and 1280x720 are the most common resolutions for a smartphone, and have been :


Thank you!

One of the things i really hated on my iPhone 4 (640x960 display) was the handling of video on it, it "wasted" so much of that gorgeous screen anytime i played a video on it









That said i did check... despite the "odd" resolution it is a 16:9 display so the new iPhone 5 should "Handle" video just fine, that said scaling is still going to be an issue, Couldnt Apple just have done 720p like everyone else?


----------



## Droidisthebest

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Foolsmasher*
> 
> I tend to agree with you, but I really can't think where else to innovate right now. Lighter, thinner, faster is almost always welcomed.
> Maybe someone more creative than me can chime in? Lol


Nokia has certaintly been innovating with the Lumia 920.


----------



## Mad Pistol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KenjiS*
> 
> Thank you!
> One of the things i really hated on my iPhone 4 (640x960 display) was the handling of video on it, it "wasted" so much of that gorgeous screen anytime i played a video on it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That said i did check... despite the "odd" resolution it is a 16:9 display so the new iPhone 5 should "Handle" video just fine, that said scaling is still going to be an issue, Couldnt Apple just have done 720p like everyone else?


Let's not forget that the state-side SGSIII also has 2GB of RAM, while the iPhone 5 will only have 1GB. That could be a limiting factor for the new phone. You can do a lot of clever things with 1GB of RAM, but in terms of flexibility on programming, the SGSIII sounds like a more desirable device to work with.


----------



## Z Overlord

Apple should have gone with 16:10 so it would be wider when holding it portrait style


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> It was easier to innovate near the beginning of the iPhone era, it was glaringly obvious what things needed improvement. What innovations are you suggesting that they make now?
> Things I would have liked to see:
> - Even better battery life
> - NFC charging (wireless charging)
> - A larger screen (even though the size is right for most, I personally would like bigger)
> None of those are revolutionary though. I'm not sure what kind of revolutionary changes everyone is expecting over 11 months since the iPhone 4S.
> I also hate the double standards. When the Samsung Galaxy S3 came out it wasn't revolutionary I didn't see 400+ post threads about it.


Samsung hadn't had a long history of proclaiming revolutionary, nor does it have a slew of fans ready to claim even the slightest thing is "ahead of the curve".


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> Let's not forget that the state-side SGSIII also has 2GB of RAM, while the iPhone 5 will only have 1GB. That could be a limiting factor for the new phone. You can do a lot of clever things with 1GB of RAM, but in terms of flexibility on programming, the SGSIII sounds like a more desirable device to work with.


You can run Linux on it, for one, and the extra RAM really helps.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> You're right, but if you're buying the iPhone 5 solely on the grounds that it can play games better, you're doing it wrong. That's not what phones are designed to do.


It's a part of it.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KenjiS*
> 
> Thank you!
> 
> One of the things i really hated on my iPhone 4 (640x960 display) was the handling of video on it, it "wasted" so much of that gorgeous screen anytime i played a video on it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That said i did check... despite the "odd" resolution it is a 16:9 display so the new iPhone 5 should "Handle" video just fine, that said scaling is still going to be an issue, Couldnt Apple just have done 720p like everyone else?


Nope. Otherwise you'd have black borders on the sides too.


----------



## KenjiS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> It was easier to innovate near the beginning of the iPhone era, it was glaringly obvious what things needed improvement. What innovations are you suggesting that they make now?
> Things I would have liked to see:
> - Even better battery life
> - NFC charging (wireless charging)
> - A larger screen (even though the size is right for most, I personally would like bigger)
> None of those are revolutionary though. I'm not sure what kind of revolutionary changes everyone is expecting over 11 months since the iPhone 4S.


That in of itself is an excellent point actually.. what IS left to do that is revolutionary? Perhaps we expect Apple to show us what revolutionary is..

What I guess I wanted to see:

1. Super-high res display, Not 1156x640, but something more along the lines of a 1080p display, pushing the bounds of pixel density higher like the iPhone 4 did, at the very least give us a 720p display









2. NFC charging standard, this has been around for ages but yet I dont see it on enough devices







I'd love to just plop my phone on something and have it charge.. Apple is the perfect company to do this too...

3. Apple revolutionizing Cell Networks somehow, either announcing a partnership with one to deliver the iOS experience (Absolutely no limits on anything for a good reasonable cost) or launching their own, or even that they were working on something related to this...

Actually number 3 is the one that I would most like to see, cell networks are the problem, not the devices


----------



## GrizzleBoy

So its it going to stretch videos?


----------



## Mad Pistol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> So its it going to stretch videos?


That's the question. Is it going to shrink 720P videos or stretch 480P?

I'm thinking more along the lines of youtube and other video sites than something that's imported to the device from a computer. The video compiler is going to take care of that anyway.


----------



## KenjiS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> Let's not forget that the state-side SGSIII also has 2GB of RAM, while the iPhone 5 will only have 1GB. That could be a limiting factor for the new phone. You can do a lot of clever things with 1GB of RAM, but in terms of flexibility on programming, the SGSIII sounds like a more desirable device to work with.


For me id rather the extra ram, I love multitasking on my phone, watching youtube videos, reading stuff in safari and messaging my friends across multiple applications, 1GB of ram on my Nexus actually runs thin sometimes...

Thats one area i must say Android is far superior, multitasking


----------



## Mr Frosty

Can just imagine Apple encoding films from 1920x1080 to 1156x640 on iTunes and selling them at a premium with the label "iPhone 5 ready"


----------



## KenjiS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> That's the question. Is it going to shrink 720P videos or stretch 480P?
> I'm thinking more along the lines of youtube and other video sites than something that's imported to the device from a computer. The video compiler is going to take care of that anyway.


Ewww to stretching 480p, That will look absolutely horrible...

And yes you can see the difference between 720 and 480 on a smartphone!


----------



## Gallien

It's a good phone, right up there with the other flagship models. I say at this point you can't go wrong with any of them. Edging out insignificant performance numbers that equate to nearly nothing in the user experience is a complete waste of time and makes all of you look like bickering kids.

- I own an HTC One X and S3 work phone
- Fiance preordering Iphone 5
- Brother getting the new Lumia


----------



## geoxile

Wait. Is the A6 manufactured by Samsung?


----------



## steelbom

It's going to shrink 720p just like the iPhone 4 and 4S.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Samsung hadn't had a long history of proclaiming revolutionary, nor does it have a slew of fans ready to claim even the slightest thing is "ahead of the curve".


I've seen plenty of Samsung fans talk about how far ahead the SGS3 is. How is a dual-core Cortex A15 and quad-core SGX543 graphics not "ahead of the curve"? The processor rivals what the competition uses and the graphics far exceeds anything else on the market.


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> It's going to shrink 720p just like the iPhone 4 and 4S.
> I've seen plenty of Samsung fans talk about how far ahead the SGS3 is. How is a dual-core Cortex A15 and quad-core SGX543 graphics not "ahead of the curve"? The processor rivals what the competition uses and the graphics far exceeds anything else on the market.


And yet all that power is being wasted on a 4" display......

And while yes it is faster then anything out there, can the end user see or feel a difference between it? Nope.. .

The end user will see a difference between the screen size and resolution....

The 4S and the S3 already run pretty much everything at stupidly high frame rates, often way surpassing the 60fps mark or constantly bouncing on the V-Sync limiter so what will adding more GPU power do? I suppose cause they won't release another phone now for 12+ months they need to mark it future proof but in 6 months it'll be behind again.

They also don't have the highest PPI any more either...


----------



## Rubers

^ Except the PS Vita, lol.

It's not ahead of the curve. It's an increase in performance. Ahead of the curve would be new features before everyone else, like Siri.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> And yet all that power is being wasted on a 4" display......
> 
> And while yes it is faster then anything out there, can the end user see or feel a difference between it? Nope.. .
> 
> The end user will see a difference between the screen size and resolution....
> 
> The 4S and the S3 already run pretty much everything at stupidly high frame rates, often way surpassing the 60fps mark or constantly bouncing on the V-Sync limiter so what will adding more GPU power do? I suppose cause they won't release another phone now for 12+ months they need to mark it future proof but in 6 months it'll be behind again.
> 
> They also don't have the highest PPI any more either...


They will also see a difference between good graphics and great graphics. Of course there's no benefit to existing apps unless they're running under 60 FPS, but enhancements can be made to them to take advantage of the better graphics, and new games can look much better on the iPhone 5.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> ^ Except the PS Vita, lol.
> 
> It's not ahead of the curve. It's an increase in performance. Ahead of the curve would be new features before everyone else, like Siri.


Is the significantly faster dual-core Cortex A15 and more equally importantly quad-core SGX543 not "new features"? It's the thinnest, lightest most powerful smartphone available.

>>>>>

iPhone 5 hands on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynBpKpjq5Oo&feature=player_embedded#!


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> They will also see a difference between good graphics and great graphics. Of course there's no benefit to existing apps unless they're running under 60 FPS, but enhancements can be made to them to take advantage of the better graphics, and new games can look much better on the iPhone 5.
> Is the significantly faster dual-core Cortex A15 and more equally importantly quad-core SGX543 not "new features"? *It's the thinnest, lightest most powerful smartphone available.*
> >>>>>
> iPhone 5 hands on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynBpKpjq5Oo&feature=player_embedded#!


Thinnest? Nope.... Lightest.....Nope.... Try again....


----------



## 3930K

Not thinnest or lightest and not available.


----------



## Blindrage606

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> And yet all that power is being wasted on a 4" display......
> And while yes it is faster then anything out there, can the end user see or feel a difference between it? Nope.. .
> The end user will see a difference between the screen size and resolution....
> The 4S and the S3 already run pretty much everything at stupidly high frame rates, often way surpassing the 60fps mark or constantly bouncing on the V-Sync limiter so what will adding more GPU power do? I suppose cause they won't release another phone now for 12+ months they need to mark it future proof but in 6 months it'll be behind again.
> They also don't have the highest PPI any more either...


Keep in mind that you are posting on an enthusiast site in which performance is most important however minute it is to the casual user.


----------



## Bobotheklown

So how are they getting off with saying it's the thinnest and lightest smart phone around if it's not true?


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> iPhone 5 hands on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynBpKpjq5Oo&feature=player_embedded#!


Wow that's a fast phone, especially in the new Maps app. I want it so bad.


----------



## CaptainChaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobotheklown*
> 
> So how are they getting off with saying it's the thinnest and lightest smart phone around if it's not true?


It might be because the Droid Razr is 7.1mm thick at it's thinnest point, but has a small bump at the top. The iPhone is just as thin all the way through.


----------



## Georgevonfrank

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bobotheklown*
> 
> So how are they getting off with saying it's the thinnest and lightest smart phone around if it's not true?


Because their fans will still say it is.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

I honestly feel like the Razr is too thin. I like a thicker phone personally...


----------



## paulerxx

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/iphone-compares-samsung-galaxy-iii-17221856#.UFEyrVGlu9I

Samsung Galaxy III, nearly everything is better compared to the iPhone 5
(doesn't compare CPU/GPU/RAM though...)









EDIT:

Apple iPhone 5 - 1GB RAM, Dual Core A6 processor, power TBC
Samsung Galaxy S3 - 1GB RAM, Exynos 4412, Quad-core 1.4GHz


----------



## raclimja

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> And yet all that power is being wasted on a 4" display......
> *And while yes it is faster then anything out there, can the end user see or feel a difference between it? Nope.. .*
> The end user will see a difference between the screen size and resolution....
> The 4S and the S3 already run pretty much everything at stupidly high frame rates, often way surpassing the 60fps mark or constantly bouncing on the V-Sync limiter so what will adding more GPU power do? I suppose cause they won't release another phone now for 12+ months they need to mark it future proof but in 6 months it'll be behind again.
> They also don't have the highest PPI any more either...


what a bucket load of bs.

i own a Galaxy S3 and web browsing on a mobile phont(desktop version of websites) is still a pain in the ass.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> They also don't have the highest PPI any more either...


it actually does, since Samsung phones use Pentile Displays and not true 3 sub pixels displays


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> it actually does, since Samsung phones use Pentile Displays and not true 3 sub pixels displays


Sony Xperia phones pack 1280x720 in a 4.3" screen, they have the highest PPI of any phone... In fact there's quite a few Android phones running 1280x720 on a 4.3" display.


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *raclimja*
> 
> what a bucket load of bs.
> i own a Galaxy S3 and web browsing on a mobile phont(desktop version of websites) is still a pain in the ass.


I've not noticed any problems on my Quad Core, what version of the S3 you running? And desktop sites are more bound by your data speed then anything else.


----------



## doomlord52

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> Sony Xperia phones pack 1280x720 in a 4.3" screen, they have the highest PPI of any phone... In fact there's quite a few Android phones running 1280x720 on a 4.3" display.


And the Lumia 920 with 332PPI.


----------



## jjsoviet

So is it confirmed that the A6 is a dual-core A15, and not some Krait-like hybrid? I want some benchmarks.


----------



## orick

Watched the iphone5 hands on video. Looks slick and smooth. But didn't really excite me that much. The galaxy note 2 hands on video excited me more and seemed more innovative to me.

This is from an iPhone and blackberry user.


----------



## ImmortalKenny

So every non Samsung phone that uses LTE, how are they getting away with it without being sued?


----------



## 4ofus

Sorry if this has already been posted. http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19512_7-57510802-233/iphone-5-vs-galaxy-s3-vs-lumia-920-by-the-numbers/


----------



## owikh84

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paulerxx*
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory/iphone-compares-samsung-galaxy-iii-17221856#.UFEyrVGlu9I
> Samsung Galaxy III, nearly everything is better compared to the iPhone 5
> (doesn't compare CPU/GPU/RAM though...)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> Apple iPhone 5 - 1GB RAM, Dual Core A6 processor, power TBC
> Samsung Galaxy S3 - 1GB RAM, Exynos 4412, Quad-core 1.4GHz


From record, 4S vs S2
Dual core A5 @ 800Mhz beats dual core Exynos 1.2GHz
A6 vs Exynos 1.4GHz?


----------



## CaptainChaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> So every non Samsung phone that uses LTE, how are they getting away with it without being sued?


licensing


----------



## KenjiS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> I've not noticed any problems on my Quad Core, what version of the S3 you running? And desktop sites are more bound by your data speed then anything else.


Same question here....I played with an S3 recently (ATT version of the S3, on LTE, so dual core Snapdragon) and I was pretty impressed at how much faster it was than my Galaxy Nexus running 4.1

Not just the LTE data (Because i can and do switch Wi-Fi on at home which gives me faster data than LTE) but also in the way the sites responded and such was pretty darn quick even using the stock browser app that was included...

I have no complaints about desktop sites loading on my Nexus though, and its not running the most recent hardware out there, Project Butter only does so much after all...

Im currently on the fence so to speak about trading up to an S3 or not, Some things i like (Yay LTE! for one, For two the fact id get my cap upped to 5gb from 3gb, faster processor might be nice sometimes, 2gb of RAM vs 1gb...) others..not so much (Touchwiz, Going back to 4.0 for a while, locking into a 2 year contract again)

Actually if anything when the guy was playing with the iPhone 5 It really didnt look all that much faster to me, But i reserve judgement for when I get to play with one, Because its also likely that the network was being overwhelmed and THAT is why everything was "slow"


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjsoviet*
> 
> So is it confirmed that the A6 is a dual-core A15, and not some Krait-like hybrid? I want some benchmarks.


the a6 is quadcore.

the screen is still too small. apple makes phones for girls or people with small hands. i don't care if it is easier to text with one hand. it's still so much more awkward than using 2.

if they made an "iphone note" i might buy it. but i also think google offers better internet services. i highly doubt apple maps will match up


----------



## Oupavoc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> the a6 is quadcore.
> the screen is still too small. apple makes phones for girls or people with small hands. i don't care if it is easier to text with one hand. it's still so much more awkward than using 2.
> if they made an "iphone note" i might buy it. but i also think google offers better internet services. i highly doubt apple maps will match up


It's not a quad core. The A6 is a dual core with a quad core gpu.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oupavoc*
> 
> It's not a quad core. The A6 is a dual core with a quad core gpu.


oh probably to keep it small then i guess. why does apple like small phones so much. it had potential...


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CaptainChaos*
> 
> licensing


Or does it relate to what DuckieHo said a few pages page where LTE is a standard and falls under RAND licensing.

I just find it funny how phones have been using LTE for a while but then the second that Apple releases the iPhone 5 people go crazy over the fact that it uses LTE and that Apple will get sued.


----------



## Oupavoc

It's NOT FRAND, can we please move on!!!


----------



## DizzlePro

Clearly Apple is no longer setting the pace with Mobile phone technology and design. Appears v5 - a taller v4 is just a response to the real innovation taking place with Android and form factors such as the HTC One X and Galaxy S 3.
We might be witnessing a change if this is the best Apple can come up with.

I dont think this is what Steve Jobs had imagined as his legacy, No NFC? really???
But it's got video stabilisation (which the S3 already had), and u can take photos while recording video (again like the S3 & Htc one X already ! lol), and it's got panoramic photo mode (which even the galaxy S2 already had!).

They spent to much time in the court room, they should of spent more time on R & D

I see nothing from Apple...the future is Android


----------



## Z Overlord

nfc is just a waste of battery life with passbook now


----------



## GingerJohn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Or does it relate to what DuckieHo said a few pages page where LTE is a standard and falls under RAND licensing.
> I just find it funny how phones have been using LTE for a while but then the second that Apple releases the iPhone 5 people go crazy over the fact that it uses LTE and that Apple will get sued.


As far as I understand it the patents refer to *4G* LTE specifically, which is not yet considered RAND. HTC and Samsung own some of the critical patents, Apple have not licensed them and so they are going to be sued.

Not looking to start a flame war, just repeating what I have read in various news sources.

OCN threads: HTC, Samsung


----------



## Concept_357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> It was easier to innovate near the beginning of the iPhone era, it was glaringly obvious what things needed improvement. What innovations are you suggesting that they make now?
> Things I would have liked to see:
> - Even better battery life
> - NFC charging (wireless charging)
> - A larger screen (even though the size is right for most, I personally would like bigger)
> None of those are revolutionary though. I'm not sure what kind of revolutionary changes everyone is expecting over 11 months since the iPhone 4S.
> I also hate the double standards. When the Samsung Galaxy S3 came out it wasn't revolutionary I didn't see 400+ post threads about it.


I have to agree with this, although the iPhone 5 looks like its going to be an amazing device. There's nothing innovative about it, it's lacking that "killer feature" that Apple products all have.

The original iPhone was an absolutely ground breaking and revolutionary device in itself.

The iPhone 4 had an incredible retina display and a beautiful design that was unmatched for a few years, it was a very innovative device.

At the time the iPhone and the i4 were released, they were hands-down the best smartphones on the market, completely unmatched and way ahead of the competition. With the iPhone 5 however, they haven't done their usual leapfrog and I'm afraid Apple's future as an innovator is at risk.


----------



## CJRhoades

Video stream of the keynote is up now.
http://www.apple.com/apple-events/september-2012/


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> nfc is just a waste of battery life with passbook now


What NFC?


----------



## KenjiS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Concept_357*
> 
> I have to agree with this, although the iPhone 5 looks like its going to be an amazing device. There's nothing innovative about it, it's lacking that "killer feature" that Apple products all have.
> The original iPhone was an absolutely ground breaking and revolutionary device in itself.
> The iPhone 4 had an incredible retina display and a beautiful design that was unmatched for a few years, it was a very innovative device.
> However, with the iPhone 5, there's really nothing truly incredible about it, and with IOS getting duller by the day, the iPhone has really lost that "magic"


That said looking at the lifecycles:

iPhone - Groundbreaking, innovative

iPhone 3G - The same, now with internet that doesnt suck

iPhone 3GS - The same, now with a faster processor

iPhone 4 - Groundbreaking again, Awesome display and overall the complete package

iPhone 4S - Siri, New camera, Not much to talk about

iPhone 5 - Bigger screen, better processor, faster internet, not much to talk about

So by that calculation the NEXT iPhone appears to be the next innovative/groundbreaking model, However the question is, will it be too late?


----------



## CaptainChaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> nfc is just a waste of battery life with passbook now


NFC tech goes far beyond digital wallets.


----------



## KenjiS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> What NFC?


Near Field communication, basically its a nice little thing that you can transfer data by tapping your device to another device..

its primarily been used for payment stuff..

IE on my Nexus using Google Wallet i can have a credit card tied to it and then at any place that takes PayPass simply tap my phone on the reader to pay, No having to dig out my wallet or anything, Its very handy if you say, want to pop and just grab a drink someplace... The only issue I personally have is the only place near me that actually takes it is McDonalds... So yeah







Which is a shame because i do actually find it more convenient than digging my wallet/card/cash out...

But it can also be used to transfer a photo, or a business card, or any number of other things to another device very quickly...


----------



## DizzlePro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KenjiS*
> 
> However the question is, will it be too late?


by the time the IPhone 5S is released the competition would have created a even bigger gap. Just look at the market share.


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CaptainChaos*
> 
> NFC tech goes far beyond digital wallets.


but I am sure the vast majority of people would who buy an iPhone would trade the battery life for those stuff


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> They will also see a difference between good graphics and great graphics. Of course there's no benefit to existing apps unless they're running under 60 FPS, but enhancements can be made to them to take advantage of the better graphics, and new games can look much better on the iPhone 5.
> Is the significantly faster dual-core Cortex A15 and more equally importantly quad-core SGX543 not "new features"? It's the thinnest, lightest most powerful smartphone available.
> >>>>>
> iPhone 5 hands on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynBpKpjq5Oo&feature=player_embedded#!


Lol, no, because it's not at all exclusive. The GPU is found in the PS Vita (android







) and the CPU ins't exclusive. They're not pushing the envelope and they're not revolutionary or "ahead of the curve". Ahead of the curve means doing thigns others haven't.

I just LOVE how much you embellish things too.


----------



## Concept_357

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KenjiS*
> 
> That said looking at the lifecycles:
> iPhone - Groundbreaking, innovative
> iPhone 3G - The same, now with internet that doesnt suck
> iPhone 3GS - The same, now with a faster processor
> iPhone 4 - Groundbreaking again, Awesome display and overall the complete package
> iPhone 4S - Siri, New camera, Not much to talk about
> iPhone 5 - Bigger screen, better processor, faster internet, not much to talk about
> So by that calculation the NEXT iPhone appears to be the next innovative/groundbreaking model, However the question is, will it be too late?


Actually I would put the 3G as a ground breaking device as well since Apple were able to find a much more efficient way of manufacturing its device and were able to sell it at a substantially lower price point. Before the 3G, iPhones were solely reserved for tech junkies and rich people, the 3G really introduced multi-touch smartphones to the world. Every time the device has been redesigned from ground-up, it's been absolutely innovative and incredible... except this time.

If we ignore the original iPhone, I would say that each second generation iPhone (3G, 4 and now 5) should be a ground breaking device. Unfortunately, the iPhone 5, while still a great phone and probably the best on the market atm, is not as ground breaking as the original, the 3g and the 4.


----------



## GrandMax

The iPhone 5 launch was a bit boring. Being a S3 owner, I was hoping Apple would bring something awesome to the table and show everybody a couple of new tricks. Show that awesome company can always surprise their audience.

I guess that is the beginning of the evolution phase. Revolution is over. Let's wait 20 years until holographic display bring something new.


----------



## Stuuut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DizzlePro*
> 
> Clearly Apple is no longer setting the pace with Mobile phone technology and design. Appears v5 - a taller v4 is just a response to the real innovation taking place with Android and form factors such as the HTC One X and Galaxy S 3.
> We might be witnessing a change if this is the best Apple can come up with.
> I dont think this is what Steve Jobs had imagined as his legacy, No NFC? really???
> But it's got video stabilisation (which the S3 already had), and u can take photos while recording video (again like the S3 & Htc one X already ! lol), and it's got panoramic photo mode (which even the galaxy S2 already had!).
> They spent to much time in the court room, they should of spent more time on R & D
> I see nothing from Apple...the future is Android


^ This
Atleast for their Phone department. Other company's have taken the lead for a while now.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Lol, no, because it's not at all exclusive. The GPU is found in the PS Vita (android
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and the CPU ins't exclusive. They're not pushing the envelope and they're not revolutionary or "ahead of the curve". Ahead of the curve means doing thigns others haven't.
> I just LOVE how much you embellish things too.


Is the iphone the fastest gpu in a phone? Is it comparable to the s3 gpu (exynos)?


----------



## GingerJohn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrandMax*
> 
> Let's wait 20 years until holographic display bring something new.


I agree with you, we are waiting for the "next big thing" to come along. Holographic displays would be a great step but there are all sorts of other things (like Google's glasses) in the pipeline too. I really hope we don't have to wait that long though.


----------



## CaptainChaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Z Overlord*
> 
> but I am sure the vast majority of people would who buy an iPhone would trade the battery life for those stuff


It's really not a big battery hog like you make it out to be. I've never noticed a difference with it off so I keep it on.


----------



## KenjiS

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stuuut*
> 
> ^ This
> Atleast for their Phone department. Other company's have taken the lead for a while now.


Apples biggest thing has been pushing Retina displays (high pixel densities and such) onto more devices... IE the new iPad and the Retinabook

This phone however doesnt even have that..


----------



## dzalias

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> No one in this thread has said it's revolutionary. The SGS3 only just caught up to the iPhone 4S in terms of graphics, and now the 5 has set the new standard... it's not playing catch up in that regard. It's incredibly thin, light, and powerful.
> But with regard to games it comes down to graphics. And that's something the iPhone 5 is touting.
> Powerful graphics will push the industry forward, and in one of the thinnest and lightest smartphones available.


You're insane, my friend.


----------



## DizzlePro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> Is the iphone the fastest gpu in a phone? Is it comparable to the s3 gpu (exynos)?


mali-400mp vs A6 Soc (ARM Cortex A15 cores), well if it's built on Samsung's 32nm LP HK+MG process then they may have similar performance, I'd wait for the Benchmarks.


----------



## Nocturin

First: The Gs3 is 4 months old. The updated galaxy phone will be out in 2-3 months (at the most), so stop with this "just catching up" to the 4s. Android flagship update cycles ranged between 6-8 months. "Hardware" wise the Furious 5 is "ahead" of the gpu "curve" for a few weeks, already behind the "cpu" curve, and definately behind on android innovations.

Face it, iThingy is playing catch up in all categories but 1(where it's not going to matter), and that will be over soon..









OMG IT'S 5GHIZZLES WIRELESS *squeeee*!










Second: I am no one but surprised at the keynote, nor the iPhone 5, and if samsung/moto/htc's LTE patents are not FRAND, this shall be an interesting next couple of months.









Anyone else anticipating an injunction suit to pop up next week?

edit: yes I was late to the party. had training all day


----------



## paulerxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *owikh84*
> 
> From record, 4S vs S2
> Dual core A5 @ 800Mhz beats dual core Exynos 1.2GHz
> A6 vs Exynos 1.4GHz?


Dual Core vs Quad Core....


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paulerxx*
> 
> Dual Core vs Quad Core....










:


----------



## KenjiS

Ok guys lets all just be honest as to why we hate the iPhone 5...

it doesnt make us coffee and summon cthulu to kill people who displease us...

Thats the truth isnt it?


----------



## King Lycan

I'm thinking A6 might actually be a dual core, Apple would have flaunted the fact that it had a quad core processor right ?







It didn't hide the fact in the 4s at its announcement that it had a dual core.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> Thinnest? Nope.... Lightest.....Nope.... Try again....


It was one statement. It's the thinnest, lightest most powerful smartphone. There's no smartphone as powerful as it is that's as thin and light as it is.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Not thinnest or lightest and not available.


See above.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Wow that's a fast phone, especially in the new Maps app. I want it so bad.


Oh yeah...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjsoviet*
> 
> So is it confirmed that the A6 is a dual-core A15, and not some Krait-like hybrid? I want some benchmarks.


No. I thought Apple actually said it was an A15 during the event, but that was what Anandtech wrote. It could just be a 1.6GHz dual-core Cortex A9, but I think the A15 is more likely.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DizzlePro*
> 
> Clearly Apple is no longer setting the pace with Mobile phone technology and design. Appears v5 - a taller v4 is just a response to the real innovation taking place with Android and form factors such as the HTC One X and Galaxy S 3.
> We might be witnessing a change if this is the best Apple can come up with.
> 
> I dont think this is what Steve Jobs had imagined as his legacy, No NFC? really???
> But it's got video stabilisation (which the S3 already had), and u can take photos while recording video (again like the S3 & Htc one X already ! lol), and it's got panoramic photo mode (which even the galaxy S2 already had!).
> 
> They spent to much time in the court room, they should of spent more time on R & D
> 
> I see nothing from Apple...the future is Android


The iPhone 4S had video stabilisation too. It's still thinner and lighter than almost all smartphones on the market, and it's certainly the most powerful in that bracket. I wonder how long it'll take for a competitor to rival the 5's 2x more powerful graphics.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Lol, no, because it's not at all exclusive. The GPU is found in the PS Vita (android
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) and the CPU ins't exclusive. They're not pushing the envelope and they're not revolutionary or "ahead of the curve". Ahead of the curve means doing thigns others haven't.
> 
> I just LOVE how much you embellish things too.


I've never said the iPhone 5's revolutionary, but it is ahead of the curve. Everyone else is just a bit behind -- assuming the A6 is an A15. The GPU is very far ahead, it'll leave all the current smartphones in the dust.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *dzalias*
> 
> You're insane, my friend.


I am not.

>>>>

It was Anandtech that said the 5's processor was a dual-core A15. Apple said nothing other than it's twice as powerful... it could be a dual-core Cortex A9 at 1.6GHz or maybe even a quad-core -.-


----------



## Shrimpykins

LTE... Let the war begin.


----------



## Stuuut

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> but it is ahead of the curve. Everyone else is just a bit behind -- assuming the A6 is an A15. The GPU is very far ahead, it'll leave all the current smartphones in the dust.


Yeah ahead of the curve after needing to catchup and will be behind again in a few


----------



## dantoddd

aesthetically, it still looks like a phone from 2010


----------



## Rubers

There is nothing about this iPhone that is ahead of the curve.


----------



## Rubers

There is nothing special about this phone.


----------



## Mad Pistol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> There is nothing about this iPhone that is ahead of the curve.


Exactly.

There was a time when the winner had the best specs. That is not the case anymore. The person that wins is the one that is the most innovative, which the iPhone 5... is not. It has some nice specs, don't get me wrong, but from a consumer standpoint, the 4S sounds like it's nearly as good, and now, it's cheaper.


----------



## j3st3r

What a HUGE disappointment from Apple..

Not only did all they absolutely fail to keep any of their designs a true secret, they failed to bring ANYTHING new to the table....

Same camera. Same OS. Same Screen.

Oh... its got LTE.... k.

Huge fail. Bring back Jobs he would never have let this crap fly.


----------



## Tom1121

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> oh probably to keep it small then i guess. why does apple like small phones so much. it had potential...


Lol at such an ignorant Statement.
How about educating yourself by watching the link below, where an OMAP 5 Dual core A15 annihilates a Tegra 3 quad core. This is with a GPU less than what the A6 of the iPhone will have. The OMAP is also running at only 800MHZ to the Tegra 3 at 1.3ghz.

http://www.slashgear.com/ti-omap-5-blows-past-quadcore-tegra-3-23215003/


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j3st3r*
> 
> Same camera. Same OS. Same Screen.


Clearly you didn't even read any articles relating to what's new in the iPhone 5.

Here's a recap: http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/


----------



## alexmaia_br

I like it. Better screen, can still be used in one hand... Faster proc.

If I was to chose a smartphone, I'd pick the iPhone.

I don't hate android though... Just prefer apple so far.


----------



## Tom1121

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Clearly you didn't even read any articles relating to what's new in the iPhone 5.
> Here's a recap: http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/


I've been reading the thread and especially your responses since they include reason. But you might as well just give it up because your responses are going in one ear and out the other. I'm now convinced that Apple could have released the iPhone with a Haswell chip that consumed 0.01 watt with performance besting our desktop chips and people would still bash the phone.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tom1121*
> 
> I've been reading the thread and especially your responses since they include reason. But you might as well just give it up because your responses are going in one ear and out the other. I'm now convinced that Apple could have *released the iPhone with a Haswell chip that consumed 0.01 watt with performance besting our desktop chips and people would still bash the phone.*


Now that would of been revolutionary... for Intel...


----------



## paulerxx

There's a lot of bashing in this thread...Most of us dislike Apple, but in all honesty. It won't be a "bad" phone, sure it won't be the best. But it could be worse...


----------



## DizzlePro

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> Now that would of been ... for Intel...


That would have a revolutionary price tag aswell, let say £2000


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paulerxx*
> 
> It won't be a "bad" phone, sure it won't be the best.


There is no such thing as the _best_ phone.

It's like talking about cars. There isn't a _best_ car.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paulerxx*
> 
> There's a lot of bashing in this thread...Most of us dislike Apple, but in all honesty. It won't be a "bad" phone, sure it won't be the best. But it could be worse...


Not much bashing, more people went "it's not a bad phone, but it's not the best." than "bad iphone bad".

Heck, I like small phones, so this is a sweet spot for me, but that would mean that I would have to jump into the apple ecosystem... and that ain't happenin' no sir-ree!


----------



## CaptainChaos

The reaction you get is due to the image that Apple have created that they are the cutting edge when it comes to mobile computing and that they constantly innovate and invent things. Not to mention that the Apples release cycle tends to build up lots of hype. Therefore if a phone is announced and most of it's improvements are features already found on existing smart phones, more people will bash.

In truth, the iPhone 5 puts Apple right at the top of the smartphone game once again. The difference is that this time around (and with the 4S) there are legit alternatives and the iPhone no longer stands out like it used to.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Stuuut*
> 
> Yeah ahead of the curve after needing to catchup and will be behind again in a few


That's the way it works. Though I don't see anyone toppling the 5's graphics for a while.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> There is nothing about this iPhone that is ahead of the curve.


The graphics are.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ksireaper*
> 
> So far what i have gotten from this thread is no matter what mediocre product apple puts out, the fanboys will defend it to death.


It's hardly mediocre. It's got graphics that thrash the competition, and a fast processor.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> And at least one person will use buzz words like "ahead of the curve" to describe a performance refresh.
> 
> There is nothing special about this phone.


It's not a buzz word. I've said they're ahead of the curve in regard to graphics, and it's true. In regard to the processor... we'll see. Having had a closer look I don't know what Apple's using.


----------



## Benladesh

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> The iPhone 4S had video stabilisation too. It's still thinner and lighter than almost all smartphones on the market, and it's certainly the most powerful in that bracket. I wonder how long it'll take for a competitor to rival the 5's 2x more powerful graphics.


"2x" more powerful graphics is a number that has no grounds. It doesn't mean anything, especially when talking about competition.

"2x" more powerful than the iPhone 4s, but what does that "2x" mean to competition. How do the graphics compare to an S3? Not 2x for sure.

I'm not saying the graphics are bad, I'm saying your argument has no grounds because of the wording you are using. It's completely baseless. I could easily say my computer is 2x more powerful than my old computer. That means absolutely nothing in terms of how powerful my computer is compared to competitors.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Benladesh*
> 
> "2x" more powerful graphics is a number that has no grounds. It doesn't mean anything, especially when talking about competition.
> 
> "2x" more powerful than the iPhone 4s, but what does that "2x" mean to competition. How do the graphics compare to an S3? Not 2x for sure.
> 
> I'm not saying the graphics are bad, I'm saying your argument has no grounds because of the wording you are using. It's completely baseless. I could easily say my computer is 2x more powerful than my old computer. That means absolutely nothing in terms of how powerful my computer is compared to competitors.


The difference is we all know how powerful the 4S is in comparison to the S3 -- the latter's only a little more powerful, and at native resolution equal. So 2x the graphical performance of the 4S is pretty clear. I can't wait to see benchmarks


----------



## ar3f

You can tell that someone does not look good by reading some numbers. Ex. "X is female" and "X weighs 450 lbs" etc.


----------



## hajile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *King Lycan*
> 
> I'm thinking A6 might actually be a dual core, Apple would have flaunted the fact that it had a quad core processor right ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It didn't hide the fact in the 4s at its announcement that it had a dual core.


It's probably a dual-core A9 processor. A15 isn't ready and bumping the dual-core from 800MHz to 1200MHz (like every other manufacturer is doing) will provide the 40% performance figure while still being a conservatively-clocked CPU (compared to the 1.5-2.0GHz A9 processors that are available).


----------



## ar3f

Not at the top... it misses NFC technology - google it.


----------



## j3st3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Clearly you didn't even read any articles relating to what's new in the iPhone 5.
> Here's a recap: http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/


No.. I think it is YOU who fails to realize anything. You misunderstand - I have an iPhone 4s, a Macbook Pro and I also had a 3GS. I have owned Android phones as well as many PC desktops - I am not bias in any means.

Having said this,

The difference between the iPhone 3G -> 4 was absolutely mind blowing. Even the S models have made substantial improvements. This new iPhone '5' crap is nothing but a bigger screen and smaller body. BIG DEAL. There is NO NEW FEATURE that is worth upgrading to. Going from the 3G to the 4 gave you a retina display and brand new body design. This is a rebranded iPhone 4 - its like a tick tock tock. iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPhon4 4SS.

Garbage. Steve Jobs would have never let this kind of garbage filth come out. He created hype that actually surpassed the general public's dreams. This is pure garbage. OooOoo you get new headphones and a larger screen. Not impressed - that is ANDROID level. I want APPLE level.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hajile*
> 
> It's probably a dual-core A9 processor. A15 isn't ready and bumping the dual-core from 800MHz to 1200MHz (like every other manufacturer is doing) will provide the 40% performance figure while still being a conservatively-clocked CPU (compared to the 1.5-2.0GHz A9 processors that are available).


What 40% performance figure are you talking about? Apple talked about a two fold performance increase. That's a 1.6GHz dual-core Cortex A9, or a dual-core A15 at a lower clock speed.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j3st3r*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Clearly you didn't even read any articles relating to what's new in the iPhone 5.
> Here's a recap: http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/
> 
> 
> 
> No.. I think it is YOU who fails to realize anything. You misunderstand - I have an iPhone 4s, a Macbook Pro and I also had a 3GS. I have owned Android phones as well as many PC desktops - I am not bias in any means.
> 
> Having said this,
> 
> The difference between the iPhone 3G -> 4 was absolutely mind blowing. Even the S models have made substantial improvements. This new iPhone '5' crap is nothing but a bigger screen and smaller body. BIG DEAL. There is NO NEW FEATURE that is worth upgrading to. Going from the 3G to the 4 gave you a retina display and brand new body design. This is a rebranded iPhone 4 - its like a tick tock tock. iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPhon4 4SS.
> 
> Garbage. Steve Jobs would have never let this kind of garbage filth come out. He created hype that actually surpassed the general public's dreams. This is pure garbage. OooOoo you get new headphones and a larger screen. Not impressed - that is ANDROID level. I want APPLE level.
Click to expand...

What was mind blowing between the 3G and 4? It's mostly just the display, and performance. The 5 brings a more powerful processor, graphics, and a larger display which many have wanted. It's also thinner and lighter and has better battery life.


----------



## NateN34

Phone is OK. I am loving the specs and design but the screen is still too small. I mean all they did was make it a half inch taller and kept the same width..

Still think the HTC EVO 4G LTE and Samsung Galaxy S3 are better.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Calling it now:
> Looks almost exactly the same
> Slightly taller because "people want a cinematic experience"
> Screen still sub-720p


Is that "Screen still sub-720p" supposed to be a con?

720p at this screen size is 326 dpi..........our eyes cannot make out the pixels, even if we put our face up to it. Anything greater than this resolution, at this screen size is an absolute waste of resources. 720p is far more than sufficient.


----------



## Majin SSJ Eric

To me the bigger display is the one thing that actually makes the iPhone somewhat viable as a current gen phone. I mean, obviously millions would buy it no matter what just because of the Apple effect but the main knock on the iPhone has always been its dinky screen size. 4" is still too small for me though....


----------



## Skydragon26

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> I posted a comparison sheet about 10 posts above yours, it's not the same as the 4S.
> It's made of less glass actually. The screen size is not meant for you, it's meant for the average consumer. Many people want to keep it so it's not too wide to fit in the average users hand in such a way that they can use it without requiring both hands.
> Bigger screen, better color reproduction, more responsive touch screen.
> CPU is twice as fast.
> GPU is twice as fast.
> Phone is thinner.
> Phone weighs ~25% less.
> Both cameras are improved.
> Better battery life.
> Utilizes 4G/LTE, so faster wireless.
> Utilized Wi-fi N, so faster wi-fi.
> Will likely have twice as much RAM as well (1GB compared to 512MB in the 4S).
> Speakers are smaller yet have better sound reproduction.
> Those are just hardware specs, the average consumer will appreciate a lot of the iOS 6/Software improvements as well.
> None of this stuff is revolutionary, but this will be more than enough for Apple to maintain its user base.


I wanna quote this post; Well thought out and I have to agree this is what most of the current user base for apple was looking for. I have to admit I thought taller was a bad thing but it didn't turn out all that bad, I also feel 4.0 to 4.3 inch is the sweet spot; I've used phones with larger screens just doesn't feel right.


----------



## Willanhanyard

Can't wait for sammy lawsuit on LTE. I would just be dieing in laughter if iphone 5 got banned for LTE


----------



## bengal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Willanhanyard*
> 
> Can't wait for sammy lawsuit on LTE. I would just be dieing in laughter if iphone 5 got banned for LTE


Ehh it won't get banned, just like how Apple can't ban GS3 no matter how hard they try. At the worst, Apple will just be fined lol.


----------



## BizzareRide

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjsoviet*
> 
> So is it confirmed that the A6 is a dual-core A15, and not some Krait-like hybrid? I want some benchmarks.


A6 CPU cores will be A15-based as well... I wouldn't call Krait a hybrid as it looks exactly like the vanilla A15 specification on paper. The only advantage is that it has more L1 cache and a deeper pipeline, both of which can add latency.


----------



## th3illusiveman

Seems like apple established iOS as the "standard" OS for users of new smartphones. They were among the first with a thin sleek touchscreen based smartphone which became wildly popular and their OS is something people have grown accustom to and don't want to change because it does everything the average person could want out of a phone.

All they have to do is keep making it faster and people will keep buying it because they don't see the need to switch to a Brand new OS and some might be intimidated by the idea.


----------



## BizzareRide

Android is the standard OS, though, as there are far more of them being sold. Having a similar UI to the iPhone makes it easier for the previous generation iPhone owners to switch to new hardware.


----------



## PunkX 1

Quote:


> Today at Apple's iPhone 5 Event the company finally lifted the lid on its new smartphone. The device is officially called the iPhone 5 (despite being the 6th iPhone from the Cupertino company). Apple is referring to the device as "the most beautiful product we've ever made."
> 
> The iPhone 5 is made entirely of glass and aluminum and is the thinnest and lightest iPhone yet - it's 18% thinner and 20% lighter than the iPhone 4S. Apple is calling it "The world's thinnest smartphone."


Source

Sorry if repost.


----------



## hollowtek

will Samsung sue over LTE?


----------



## PunkX 1

Rumor has it that HTC might as well, since they hold a number of LTE-based patents which may effectively lead to some sort of settlement with Apple.


----------



## darkstar585

I wish I worked for apples design team. Design something once...then run it again...and again...and again....

Its got to be the easiest job in the world!


----------



## Sevada88

Maybe not the same source but there is already a huge discussion going one here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1305089/verge-live-from-apples-iphone-5-event-starts-at-10am-pst-2pm-est


----------



## Jesse^_^

Stretch iPhone 4 to suit competition thats better than it (Samsung S3), call it iPhone 5.

Look at 4th gen Nano, Look at Nokia Lumia. Ctrl C, Ctrl V and add iOS, viola new iPod Nano.

Now, I will take my whiney butt and sue anyone who dare copies my design, yet copy everyone elses at the same time.


----------



## ocDisaster

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkstar585*
> 
> I wish I worked for apples design team. Design something once...then run it again...and again...and again....
> Its got to be the easiest job in the world!


design is not only about the look


----------



## darkstar585

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ocDisaster*
> 
> design is not only about the look


I kinda agree...*But* its the only thing 90% of people who buy apple products care about and in the end it still does everything that the 4/4s does....Apart from being stretched out a bit and slightly faster and using stolen LTE technology.

Its hardly industry changing and quite frankly its boring IMO.


----------



## PunkX 1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkstar585*
> 
> I kinda agree...*But* its the only thing 90% of people who buy apple products care about and in the end it still does everything that the 4/4s does....Apart from being stretched out a bit and slightly faster *and using stolen LTE technology.*
> Its hardly industry changing and quite frankly its boring IMO.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> That's the way it works. Though I don't see anyone toppling the 5's graphics for a while.
> The graphics are.
> It's hardly mediocre. It's got graphics that thrash the competition, and a fast processor.
> It's not a buzz word. I've said they're ahead of the curve in regard to graphics, and it's true. In regard to the processor... we'll see. Having had a closer look I don't know what Apple's using.


The GPU is already on the market... Not ahead of the curve


----------



## obsidian86

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkstar585*
> 
> I wish I worked for apples design team. Design something once...then run it again...and again...and again....
> Its got to be the easiest job in the world!


like Porsche


----------



## Jesse^_^

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *obsidian86*
> 
> like Porsche


Nothing wrong with 911's.

They can't really perfect it any more, but modernize it.


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkstar585*
> 
> I wish I worked for apples design team. Design something once...then run it again...and again...and again....
> Its got to be the easiest job in the world!


Or Porsche









The same design since 1952


----------



## XCII

Apple's products just keep growing...


----------



## Anti!!

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *obsidian86*
> 
> like Porsche


The most real world usable super car there is. How can you redesign that? Lol

Great power and handling. Great trunk space and the least blind spots out of all super cars. Win win win. Its got tigers blood in the gas tank! Winning!


----------



## Abs.exe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkstar585*
> 
> I wish I worked for apples design team. Design something once...then run it again...and again...and again....
> Its got to be the easiest job in the world!


Then explain me how you'd do to reduce the weight, the width and upgrade the performances. What you are saying is like they didn't changed anything while they did upgrade pretty much everything...


----------



## PsYcHo29388

Hardware in it is 1-2 years old ✓
Overpriced Product ✓
Milked product ✓
People will still upgrade to it ✓
Apple will continue this vicious cycle and force me to make a gmod video about it. ✓
crying tears ✓


----------



## drka0tic

The Apple A6 SOC: Cortex A15 Hits The Market

Nice article making a valid assumption on the A6 specs.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XCII*
> 
> Apple's products just keep growing...


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ksireaper*
> 
> So far what i have gotten from this thread is no matter what mediocre product apple puts out, the fanboys will defend it to death.


And no matter how well it sells and the even if the general public loves it anyway, the Android fanboys will continue to hate it.

Bottom line: OCN members, by and large, seem to know next to nothing about how business works. You don't simply make the most money by making phones with the fastest CPU, GPU, or most pixels on the screen. Apple has done that in the past, but those things aren't what got them where they are today, it takes much more than just hardware. A few years ago about 80% of my friends owned Android phones. Today, every single one owns an iPhone. The iPhone isn't just about hardware, it's about hardware melded with an OS that does what you need it to do, and makes it easy for the consumer. The Android OS is getting better though, which is good. Apple has also done very well at not fragmenting their market too much, so there are a lot more apps in their market, and iOS apps are 3x as profitable as the same ones sold for Android. The Android market is horribly fragmented by the large amount of hardware variation.

It's obvious that Apple is doing something right with their hardware releases, and they know something the Android fanboys on here don't. They didn't end up the most profitable corporation in history by accident.

My personal opinion: I think Android phones are just fine, but there's nothing compelling to get me to leave my iPhone behind and all of my apps.


----------



## ImmortalKenny

^ Very well said


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Ksireaper*
> 
> So far what i have gotten from this thread is no matter what mediocre product apple puts out, the fanboys will defend it to death.
> 
> 
> 
> And no matter how well it sells and the even if the general public loves it anyway, the Android fanboys will continue to hate it.
> 
> Bottom line: OCN members, by and large, seem to know next to nothing about how business works. You don't simply make the most money by making phones with the fastest CPU, GPU, or most pixels on the screen. Apple has done that in the past, but those things aren't what got them where they are today, it takes much more than just hardware. A few years ago about 80% of my friends owned Android phones. Today, every single one owns an iPhone. The iPhone isn't just about hardware, it's about hardware melded with an OS that does what you need it to do, and makes it easy for the consumer. The Android OS is getting better though, which is good. Apple has also done very well at not fragmenting their market too much, so there are a lot more apps in their market, and iOS apps are 3x as profitable as the same ones sold for Android. The Android market is horribly fragmented by the large amount of hardware variation.
> 
> It's obvious that Apple is doing something right with their hardware releases, and they know something the Android fanboys on here don't. They didn't end up the most profitable corporation in history by accident.
> 
> My personal opinion: I think Android phones are just fine, but there's nothing compelling to get me to leave my iPhone behind and all of my apps.
Click to expand...

+1

The application ecosystem is the exact reason why I haven't purchased any apple phones


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> And no matter how well it sells and the even if the general public loves it anyway, the Android fanboys will continue to hate it.
> Bottom line: OCN members, by and large, seem to know next to nothing about how business works. You don't simply make the most money by making phones with the fastest CPU, GPU, or most pixels on the screen. Apple has done that in the past, but those things aren't what got them where they are today, it takes much more than just hardware. A few years ago about 80% of my friends owned Android phones. Today, every single one owns an iPhone. The iPhone isn't just about hardware, it's about hardware melded with an OS that does what you need it to do, and makes it easy for the consumer. The Android OS is getting better though, which is good. Apple has also done very well at not fragmenting their market too much, so there are a lot more apps in their market, and iOS apps are 3x as profitable as the same ones sold for Android. The Android market is horribly fragmented by the large amount of hardware variation.
> It's obvious that Apple is doing something right with their hardware releases, and they know something the Android fanboys on here don't. They didn't end up the most profitable corporation in history by accident.
> My personal opinion: I think Android phones are just fine, but there's nothing compelling to get me to leave my iPhone behind and all of my apps.


You don't have to be an Android fanboy to hate Apple or their products.

Infact, the only reason I even use Android phones is because its basically the only alternative to Apples offering.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> You don't have to be an android fanboy to hate Apple or their products.


This.

I'm considering a windows phone for my next device, and the new luminas are making a mighty fine argument.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> This.
> I'm considering a windows phone for my next device, and the new luminas are making a mighty fine argument.


Same here, which is something that's even surprising to myself.

iProducts are like the Steam of mobile phones imo.

Sure its user friendly and convenient etc etc etc, but once you're there or make any kind of solid investment, you're stuck there unless you want to lose it. Even if you see another product that has many features you want.

When the simple thought of using another product brings to mind the word "inconvenience" not because of the new products downfall, but because of the old ones unwillingness to give you freedom, I'll happily give away any "convenience".


----------



## xoleras

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> You don't have to be an Android fanboy to hate Apple or their products.
> Infact, the only reason I even use Android phones is because its basically the only alternative to Apples offering.


I'm not an android fanboy, I don't even have an android product. My phone is an iphone. Rest assured, I know 1 person never makes a difference but I cannot support apple because their litigious ways are downright ridiculous.

Don't take my word for it, even Steve Wozniak disagrees with the Apple/Samsung lawsuit. That should tell you something.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Same here, which is something that's even surprising to myself.
> iProducts are like the Steam of mobile phones imo.
> Sure its user friendly and convenient etc etc etc, but once you're there or make any kind of solid investment, you're stuck there unless you want to lose it. Even if you see another product that has many features you want.
> When the simple thought of using another product brings to mind the word "inconvenience" not because of the new products downfall, but because of the old ones unwillingness to give you freedom, I'll happily give away any "convenience".


Great point. It would be beneficial to all if developers that has the same application on all platforms has a system that was buy for 1 buy for all, it would also prevent this "great wall of china" syndrome.

The only thing I'm waiting on for WP is some modability, and the platform is still relatively new, and I don't think I'd be able to use my 100's of free amazon apps (1 free app a day FTW some gems have been found) on WP. I haven't even paid anything for these applications and it's still a point with purchasing a new phone. I've got my 7+ though, so I'd just have to get used to my phone being primary a phone again...

Choice choices... which is why I stuck with my TP2 (I love HTC build quality) for 3+ years







.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *xoleras*
> 
> I'm not an android fanboy, I don't even have an android product. My phone is an iphone. Rest assured, I know 1 person never makes a difference but I cannot support apple because their litigious ways are downright ridiculous.
> Don't take my word for it, even Steve Wozniak disagrees with the Apple/Samsung lawsuit. That should tell you something.


The 10's of thousands of fanoids around the interwebs don't even make a dent







.

It's rabid on both sides. How dare you not be a fan(boy)!


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Fanboyism literally makes the (consumer market) world go round.


----------



## Nocturin

Aye

It's the song that never ends....


----------



## quakermaas

You could sell them anything


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *quakermaas*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You could sell them anything


Can't be real........


----------



## Mad Pistol

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> iProducts are like the Steam of mobile phones imo.
> Sure its user friendly and convenient etc etc etc, but once you're there or make any kind of solid investment, you're stuck there unless you want to lose it. Even if you see another product that has many features you want.


The difference is that Steam is not greedy or stingy about their product. Apple is.

Steam is convenient, sure, but it definitely helps that the company behind it is actually a very good company that is making a product by gamers for gamers. It just so happens that they are also the biggest player in the industry too, so that doesn't hurt.

I think comparing Apple and Steam is unfair. Sure I can see the similarities, but the business outlook for both companies is vastly different.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> lol, yeah, iOS apps because there are no quad core iOS devices. You're having yourself on, here. I think you know we're right you're just eaten up in the moment of the new release to admit it.
> And yeah quite a few games take advantage of and push the quad core. Dead Trigger, Shadowgun, Riptide GP (especially when enabling the Tegra 3 effects, on the SGS3,for Dead Trigger and Riptide.) It's not unrealistic for a mobile device. Seriously, are you just kidding yourself here?
> 
> 
> 
> You keep talking about how much superior Cortex A9 quads are but you're forgetting the fact that the A6 SoC sports a PowerVR SGX543MP4 (same GPU as the PS Vita), which will be at least twice as fast as your international S3's Mali 400.
> 
> I rather much take a dual core Cortex A15s + SGX543MP4 over a slightly faster CPU in multi-threaded apps + a much slower GPU.
> 
> And all those games you listed will benefit more from the superior GPU over the A9 quad.
Click to expand...

Agreed, considering I can underclock a 18 month old phone to 800Mhz and not see the difference on Android in nearly anything, there's no reason to have a quad core on a modern phone, in any case I'd rather have the extra battery life than the slight performance increase that an extra 2 cores may or may not give you.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> You keep talking about how much superior Cortex A9 quads are but you're forgetting the fact that the A6 SoC sports a PowerVR SGX543MP4 (same GPU as the PS Vita), which will be at least twice as fast as your international S3's Mali 400.
> I rather much take a dual core Cortex A15s + SGX543MP4 over a slightly faster CPU in multi-threaded apps + a much slower GPU..
> 
> 
> 
> That's like saying you would sooner play your PC games at 1920x1080 with a GTX 680 instead of 2560x1440 on a 7950...
Click to expand...

No, it's not? Saying anyone needs/uses a quad core on a phone is like saying you _need_ a 2500k for gaming on GPU limited games.

The resolution is smaller, yes, but his post was about CPU performance and not GPU performance.

I'll hazard a guess that anyone saying they'd rather an A9 quad over an A15 dual (Remember, the A15 is made to clock higher than the A9 and is 40% faster in IPC) wouldn't be saying it if it was Samsung, Nokia, HTC, etc who had released the A15 phones.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Also, I wonder where those same dual core CPU's would come now against those exact same CPU's in modern games now they're more multi-threaded?
> 
> 
> 
> I was wondering the same thing, I'd like to see a Q6600 against an E8400 in BF3.
Click to expand...

Much slower, nearly every E8400 owner has upgraded because of being slow, but the Q6600 still has a few users, I imagine that 3930Ks will last a lot longer than 2600ks too.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KenjiS*
> 
> The legacy apps will get fixed in no time though, My thing is say you play a video on it, How much of that 4" screen is going to be consumed by black bars unless you zoom/crop half the image away?
> 
> 
> 
> My question is are 720P videos going to be down scaled properly? 640P is a pretty odd resolution. 800x480, 960x540, and 1280x720 are the most common resolutions for a smartphone, and have been for some time now. 1154x640 is a weird one.
Click to expand...

It's actually fairly common, iirc most Xbox 360 and PS3 games are 640p.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ahhell*
> 
> Not to mention that other phones can survive being dropped.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm pretty sure that a lot Android phones use glass on top of the screens that can shatter when dropped too.
Click to expand...

Being fair, there's a difference as the Android phones tend to not have it as a main thing.


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mad Pistol*
> 
> The difference is that Steam is not greedy or stingy about their product. Apple is.
> Steam is convenient, sure, but it definitely helps that the company behind it is actually a very good company that is making a product by gamers for gamers. It just so happens that they are also the biggest player in the industry too, so that doesn't hurt.
> I think comparing Apple and Steam is unfair. Sure I can see the similarities, but the business outlook for both companies is vastly different.


My point was not to compare public opinion, perception or anything else.

Personal feelings do not change the fact that the "once you're in, you're in" business model is very similar, regardless of whether you like one company more than the other. That's all I was comparing.


----------



## Blindrage606

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> And no matter how well it sells and the even if the general public loves it anyway, the Android fanboys will continue to hate it.
> Bottom line: OCN members, by and large, seem to know next to nothing about how business works. You don't simply make the most money by making phones with the fastest CPU, GPU, or most pixels on the screen. Apple has done that in the past, but those things aren't what got them where they are today, it takes much more than just hardware. A few years ago about 80% of my friends owned Android phones. Today, every single one owns an iPhone. The iPhone isn't just about hardware, it's about hardware melded with an OS that does what you need it to do, and makes it easy for the consumer. The Android OS is getting better though, which is good. Apple has also done very well at not fragmenting their market too much, so there are a lot more apps in their market, and iOS apps are 3x as profitable as the same ones sold for Android. The Android market is horribly fragmented by the large amount of hardware variation.
> It's obvious that Apple is doing something right with their hardware releases, and they know something the Android fanboys on here don't. They didn't end up the most profitable corporation in history by accident.
> My personal opinion: I think Android phones are just fine, but there's nothing compelling to get me to leave my iPhone behind and all of my apps.


Word. Unfortunately, I think its just cool to hate Apple due to nerd bias stereotypes of typical Apple users.


----------



## noobhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *quakermaas*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You could sell them anything


The people must have been staged. Even "cool" iphone users aren't that stupid


----------



## Blindrage606

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *quakermaas*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You could sell them anything
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!


While this video is completely hilarious, they're taking advantage of idiots... No matter what brand loyalty they have. They prob couldn't tell the difference between 720p vs 1080p on a 50"+ TV.


----------



## cubanresourceful

Personally, I am glad the iPhone isn't a game changer this round, because I really want the Lumia 920. I have the admit though, the iPhone 5 looks amazing. Not sold on the two tone back, but even lighter and skinnier? Very nice.

Hopefully, the Lumia 940 is a bit more skinny/lightweight.

All in all, great competition is what drives the industry to innovate, and I am glad this iPhone is amazing.







Though I hope WP8 phones sell well, so that Windows Phone OS can continue to be a part of the Phone OS wars.









Now what's left is the new Nexus devices at the end of the year.







And the Surface to finally be detailed and released.


----------



## born2bwild

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *KenjiS*
> 
> Apples biggest thing has been pushing Retina displays (high pixel densities and such) onto more devices... IE the new iPad and the Retinabook
> This phone however doesnt even have that..


What are you talking about? The iPhone has been retina since iPhone 4. The pixel density is 326ppi, which is higher than all other flagship phones.


----------



## doomlord52

Great article from BBC - totally agree with it:
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19557497

Basically saying how Apple isn't the same. Nothing in the launch was a surprise. We knew the shape, screen size, and tech at least a month before launch. There hasn't been any radical changes to anything in its looks. Everyone claims that the iPhone "revolutionized smartphones" back in 2007 - but really, what has it done since then? Its essentially the exact same phone.

Copy-Pasted just in case some actually blocked BBC










Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!



Somewhere up there, I can hear Steve screaming.

Back in 2006 I launched a blog where I pretended to be Apple CEO Steve Jobs. My alter ego, "Fake Steve," had a good run, but I shut it down in January 2011 when it became apparent that Jobs was in poor health. Nevertheless, even now, I'm constantly wondering what Steve would think about whatever Apple is doing.

This week it's the iPhone 5. Everyone pretty much accepts that Apple will introduce it, and there have been so many leaks that everybody pretty much seems to know what it's going to be. Word is it will look a lot like the last two versions of the iPhone, except a bit thinner and a bit taller, with upgraded guts and a refreshed operating system.
iPhone and Galaxy S3 being held Samsung's Galaxy S3 is outselling the iPhone 4S in some countries

If that's correct, I imagine Steve is not happy. First of all, he'd be furious about the leaks. Steve liked surprising people.

More important, is this really the best we can expect from an outfit that claims to be the most innovative company in the world? This is the sixth version of the iPhone, and the user interface still looks almost exactly like the original iPhone in 2007.

The hardware on the iPhone has been the same for two years, since the iPhone 4 and 4S were virtually identical.

Now, having had two years to plot and scheme, Apple's renowned designer Jonathan Ive has replaced the tiny 3.5in (8.9cm) screen with a slightly-less-tiny 4in (10.2cm) screen? Wow. Knock me over with a feather. What do you do with the rest of your time, Jony?

This is what happens when a company is too cheap to invest in research and development. Did you know that Apple spends far less on R&D than any of its rivals - a paltry 2% of revenues, versus 14% for Google and Microsoft?

No wonder the Android platform, where new models appear every week, now represents 68% of the smartphone market, up from 47% a year ago, while Apple slid to 17% over the same period.

In case you're bad at maths, let me work that out for you: Android's market share is now four times that of Apple. Four times!

Worse, despite all its bluster about innovation, Apple has become a copycat, and not even a good one. Why is Apple making the iPhone bigger? To keep up with the top Android phones.

(Phones that, mind you, Apple fanboys ridiculed at first.)

The problem is that the new iPhone won't really give you much more screen real estate than the old one. Worse, it looks ridiculous.

Apple also has become a copycat in tablets. Jobs once said the iPad's 9.7in screen was the perfect size, and smaller tablets made no sense. Then the Android camp had success with 7in tablets like Amazon's Kindle Fire and Google's Nexus 7, and now Apple supposedly will announce its own smaller iPad in October. Talk about thinking different!

What else is there to complain about?

Um, Siri still doesn't work. The oft-rumoured Apple TV doesn't exist yet, presumably because media companies won't let Apple take over their business.

The latest batch of Apple ads were such embarrassing garbage that Apple had to take them down from YouTube. Apple's new guy in charge of retail launched a plan to lay off workers and boost profits, then had to walk it back when people pointed out that this was stupid.

The big $1bn (£650m) patent "victory" over Samsung made Apple look like a bully, and also raised awareness of how good Samsung's latest products are.

Last month, Samsung's Galaxy S3, with its huge 4.8in screen, outsold the iPhone 4S in the United States, the first time any smartphone has outsold the iPhone in the States.

Apple got where it was by taking bold risks. Now it has become a company that copies others and plays it safe.

A company that once was run by a product visionary now is run by a number-cruncher - chief executive Tim Cook, whose claim to fame involves running an efficient supply chain and beating ever lower prices out of Asian subcontractors and component suppliers.

To use a car analogy, six years ago the iPhone was like a sexy new flagship model from BMW or Porsche. Today it's a Toyota Camry. Safe, reliable, boring. The car your mom drives. The car that's so popular that its maker doesn't dare mess with the formula.

Apple seems less interested in blowing people away than it is in milking profit out of the existing lineup. At this Cook is doing marvellously well.

Sales are booming and will top $150bn this year, with net profit margins of nearly 30%. That's incredible in any business, but qualifies as a miracle when you're selling consumer electronics hardware.

Apple has more than $100bn in cash. Its market value of $632bn makes it the biggest company in the world, bigger than any company in US history.

That's great for Apple's shareholders. But for customers, who cares? In terms of products, Apple has become the one thing it should never be. Apple has become boring.

Somewhere up there, I can hear Steve screaming.


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *born2bwild*
> 
> What are you talking about? The iPhone has been retina since iPhone 4. *The pixel density is 326ppi, which is higher than all other flagship phones*.


*WAS* higher then all the other flagship phones, there's loads of Android phones out now which are higher.


----------



## cubanresourceful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Great article from BBC - totally agree with it:
> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19557497
> Basically saying how Apple isn't the same. Nothing in the launch was a surprise. We knew the shape, screen size, and tech at least a month before launch. There hasn't been any radical changes to anything in its looks. Everyone claims that the iPhone "revolutionized smartphones" back in 2007 - but really, what has it done since then? Its essentially the exact same phone.
> Copy-Pasted just in case some actually blocked BBC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Somewhere up there, I can hear Steve screaming.
> Back in 2006 I launched a blog where I pretended to be Apple CEO Steve Jobs. My alter ego, "Fake Steve," had a good run, but I shut it down in January 2011 when it became apparent that Jobs was in poor health. Nevertheless, even now, I'm constantly wondering what Steve would think about whatever Apple is doing.
> This week it's the iPhone 5. Everyone pretty much accepts that Apple will introduce it, and there have been so many leaks that everybody pretty much seems to know what it's going to be. Word is it will look a lot like the last two versions of the iPhone, except a bit thinner and a bit taller, with upgraded guts and a refreshed operating system.
> iPhone and Galaxy S3 being held Samsung's Galaxy S3 is outselling the iPhone 4S in some countries
> If that's correct, I imagine Steve is not happy. First of all, he'd be furious about the leaks. Steve liked surprising people.
> More important, is this really the best we can expect from an outfit that claims to be the most innovative company in the world? This is the sixth version of the iPhone, and the user interface still looks almost exactly like the original iPhone in 2007.
> The hardware on the iPhone has been the same for two years, since the iPhone 4 and 4S were virtually identical.
> Now, having had two years to plot and scheme, Apple's renowned designer Jonathan Ive has replaced the tiny 3.5in (8.9cm) screen with a slightly-less-tiny 4in (10.2cm) screen? Wow. Knock me over with a feather. What do you do with the rest of your time, Jony?
> This is what happens when a company is too cheap to invest in research and development. Did you know that Apple spends far less on R&D than any of its rivals - a paltry 2% of revenues, versus 14% for Google and Microsoft?
> No wonder the Android platform, where new models appear every week, now represents 68% of the smartphone market, up from 47% a year ago, while Apple slid to 17% over the same period.
> In case you're bad at maths, let me work that out for you: Android's market share is now four times that of Apple. Four times!
> Worse, despite all its bluster about innovation, Apple has become a copycat, and not even a good one. Why is Apple making the iPhone bigger? To keep up with the top Android phones.
> (Phones that, mind you, Apple fanboys ridiculed at first.)
> The problem is that the new iPhone won't really give you much more screen real estate than the old one. Worse, it looks ridiculous.
> Apple also has become a copycat in tablets. Jobs once said the iPad's 9.7in screen was the perfect size, and smaller tablets made no sense. Then the Android camp had success with 7in tablets like Amazon's Kindle Fire and Google's Nexus 7, and now Apple supposedly will announce its own smaller iPad in October. Talk about thinking different!
> What else is there to complain about?
> Um, Siri still doesn't work. The oft-rumoured Apple TV doesn't exist yet, presumably because media companies won't let Apple take over their business.
> The latest batch of Apple ads were such embarrassing garbage that Apple had to take them down from YouTube. Apple's new guy in charge of retail launched a plan to lay off workers and boost profits, then had to walk it back when people pointed out that this was stupid.
> The big $1bn (£650m) patent "victory" over Samsung made Apple look like a bully, and also raised awareness of how good Samsung's latest products are.
> Last month, Samsung's Galaxy S3, with its huge 4.8in screen, outsold the iPhone 4S in the United States, the first time any smartphone has outsold the iPhone in the States.
> Apple got where it was by taking bold risks. Now it has become a company that copies others and plays it safe.
> A company that once was run by a product visionary now is run by a number-cruncher - chief executive Tim Cook, whose claim to fame involves running an efficient supply chain and beating ever lower prices out of Asian subcontractors and component suppliers.
> To use a car analogy, six years ago the iPhone was like a sexy new flagship model from BMW or Porsche. Today it's a Toyota Camry. Safe, reliable, boring. The car your mom drives. The car that's so popular that its maker doesn't dare mess with the formula.
> Apple seems less interested in blowing people away than it is in milking profit out of the existing lineup. At this Cook is doing marvellously well.
> Sales are booming and will top $150bn this year, with net profit margins of nearly 30%. That's incredible in any business, but qualifies as a miracle when you're selling consumer electronics hardware.
> Apple has more than $100bn in cash. Its market value of $632bn makes it the biggest company in the world, bigger than any company in US history.
> That's great for Apple's shareholders. But for customers, who cares? In terms of products, Apple has become the one thing it should never be. Apple has become boring.
> Somewhere up there, I can hear Steve screaming.


I completely agree with this article. First, personal quip, I love not being a fanboy. I have owned, over the past few years, Windows Mobile, Windows Phone 7, iOS, Android. They are all good in their own right. Usually, new iPhones excite me, or are exciting in general. Even the 4S excited me a bit because of the improved camera, Siri (which turned out to be DOA), among other things. This iPhone launch was not exciting. Even the Nokia launch was more exciting (in terms of raw, technical details and product announcement, PR wise they need to be more like Apple, their even was boring). That said, maybe all the flak they're receiving from news outlets (the one's that are more unbaised, ie not Apple based news outlets, nor WP/Android based) may cause them again to take more risks (which is exciting).


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> And no matter how well it sells and the even if the general public loves it anyway, the Android fanboys will continue to hate it.
> Bottom line: OCN members, by and large, seem to know next to nothing about how business works. You don't simply make the most money by making phones with the fastest CPU, GPU, or most pixels on the screen. Apple has done that in the past, but those things aren't what got them where they are today, it takes much more than just hardware. A few years ago about 80% of my friends owned Android phones. Today, every single one owns an iPhone. The iPhone isn't just about hardware, it's about hardware melded with an OS that does what you need it to do, and makes it easy for the consumer. The Android OS is getting better though, which is good. Apple has also done very well at not fragmenting their market too much, so there are a lot more apps in their market, and iOS apps are 3x as profitable as the same ones sold for Android. The Android market is horribly fragmented by the large amount of hardware variation.
> It's obvious that Apple is doing something right with their hardware releases, and they know something the Android fanboys on here don't. They didn't end up the most profitable corporation in history by accident.
> My personal opinion: I think Android phones are just fine, but there's nothing compelling to get me to leave my iPhone behind and all of my apps.


I said this earlier. The main reason I don't jump to WP8 is because I'm heavily invested in the Android ecosystem (I must have about £100 in apps and such by this point). Which is also why I get so pissed off when it comes under unwarranted attack form Apple who are seeking to destroy it via illegitimate litigation.

As Grizzle is about to say...
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> You don't have to be an Android fanboy to hate Apple or their products.
> Infact, the only reason I even use Android phones is because its basically the only alternative to Apples offering.


----------



## cubanresourceful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> I said this earlier. The main reason I don't jump to WP8 is because I'm heavily invested in the Android ecosystem (I must have about £100 in apps and such by this point). Which is also why I get so pissed off when it comes under unwarranted attack form Apple who are seeking to destroy it via illegitimate litigation.
> As Grizzle is about to say...


I have about that much money invested in apps I have purchased, on each platform.







I tend to rebuy the same apps across the board (or similar) on the other OS. xD Maybe I am crazy, but I need to know all platforms for my job (IT Specialist) and I love supporting developers (I love programming).


----------



## born2bwild

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> *WAS* higher then all the other flagship phones, there's loads of Android phones out now which are higher.


The iPhone PPI is higher than the Galaxy Nexus, S3 and HOX (as well as EVO).
Those are the current Android flagship phones.


----------



## j3st3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PsYcHo29388*
> 
> Hardware in it is 1-2 years old ✓
> Overpriced Product ✓
> Milked product ✓
> People will still upgrade to it ✓
> Apple will continue this vicious cycle and force me to make a gmod video about it. ✓
> crying tears ✓


Oh shut up Android markets are way worse at this than ANY other. Apple has released all but 6 iPhones whereas there have been around 300 Android copy + pastes over the past few years. OMGOMG I am upgrading my Samsung identical S2 to my Samsung identical S3 with .03 INCHES WIDER!!!!

The problem is Apple is doing what Android does - release a marginally better phone and call it a revolution. Apple has been releasing ground breaking products the past 5 years and this iPhone 5 is just absolute garbage. Its really just a place holder between their tick-tock; basically an iPhone 4SS. Look at the difference between the 3G -> 4.

I am saddened. Apple is going down the Android road. Now all consumers are screwed because Android cant copy and paste anything innovative onto their phones. Stalemate for consumers.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cubanresourceful*
> 
> I have about that much money invested in apps I have purchased, on each platform.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tend to rebuy the same apps across the board (or similar) on the other OS. xD Maybe I am crazy, but I need to know all platforms for my job (IT Specialist) and I love supporting developers (I love programming).


Maybe when I earn more (after graduation) then I'll be more open to this idea


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *born2bwild*
> 
> The iPhone PPI is higher than the Galaxy Nexus, S3 and HOX (as well as EVO).
> Those are the current Android flagship phones.


I'm sorry, my ears can't see the difference.

S3: 302ppi
HOX: 312ppi
Evo: 312ppi

I'm too tired to work the math, but pretty sure they are all within or very close to "retina" spec.

Arguing about ppi is ridiculous unless the display is 640x480 @6". I have to put my nose to the screen to start to see any pixel segmentation on any high-end/flagship phone released within the past 2 years.

inb4butthepixels!


----------



## born2bwild

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> I'm sorry, my ears can't see the difference.


No I agree that all listed phones are "retina" and more than satisfiable in terms of pixel density, but Apple still has the highest among flagships, and its display most certainly is still retina (which is the point Kenji was trying to refute).


----------



## j3st3r

To be fair, both companies need new direction. Samsung needs to stop being such baby and playing the convenience card while riding on the backs of consumer sympathy while Apple needs to set their standards much higher in terms of innovation. Risk taking was always their niche under Jobs and its time they go back to that.

In all honesty, Samsung hasn't innovated jack in terms of phones. They haven't released ANYTHING new that any other phone manufacturer had already released. All they did was introduce their fancy, and sometimes terrible, screen technology. HTC was the first company to really push the 3-4 inch screen size with the Evo @ 4.3 inches (my first Android phone mind you). And the entirety of the Android OS was basically a copy + paste mimic of iOS. Look at Windows phones for what real creativity looks like. All Samsung does is pump out phones every month with incremental hardware upgrades that fracture the Android phone base even more. Oh... and let's not forget that terrible toilet paper OS called Touchwiz. Good on you Sammy.

If I was Google I would separate myself from Samsung and focus more on creating phones myself. Its obvious they cannot trust a rogue corporation like Samsung to make intelligent decisions in regards to business ethics. It has become painfully obvious that Samsung attempts to bypass legal boundaries because of their global scale, but unfortunately, they are fighting a much bigger dog. All this hype about Android manufacturers suing Apple 'when this' and 'if that' happens is pure rubbish. It simply won't happen because the cost benefit analysis won't work in any companies favor. HTC is struggling as it is - and Samsung has been losing nearly all legal battles. You can assume some kind of global conspiracy is going on to oppress precious Samsung but when you step out of the box and look at the evidence, Samsung has and will be in the wrong as long as they continue to try to be a ignorant thief.

Apple, on the other hand, has simply dropped the ball on the iPhone 5 release. Some of it had to do with the iPhone being leaked, but a lot of it didn't. Lets not forget that the iPhone 4 was also leaked, but the presentation was absolutely MIND numbing. Not only was the design changed 100%, there was a introduction of a front facing camera, a completely new RETINA display, the radio bands were on the OUTSIDE of the phone, and the materials used were completely original and unheard of. This is what the general public expects of Apple releases, especially since they tease us so much with the tick-tock pattern of releases. They dropped the ball. To some extent, I want to blame Tim Cook as he was the only huge variable that has changed since production began, but then again, who knows what happened. I am perfectly content with my 4S and see no real benefit from switching the 5 besides an LTE radio since I am on Verizon's slow 3G network. If I was on HSPA, no upgrade required at all. Shame on you, Apple. Shame.


----------



## GingerJohn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> I'm sorry, my ears can't see the difference.


My ears have trouble seeing the difference too.


----------



## Skylit

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> And no matter how well it sells and the even if the general public loves it anyway, the Android fanboys will continue to hate it.
> Bottom line: OCN members, by and large, seem to know next to nothing about how business works. You don't simply make the most money by making phones with the fastest CPU, GPU, or most pixels on the screen. Apple has done that in the past, but those things aren't what got them where they are today, it takes much more than just hardware. A few years ago about 80% of my friends owned Android phones. Today, every single one owns an iPhone. The iPhone isn't just about hardware, it's about hardware melded with an OS that does what you need it to do, and makes it easy for the consumer. The Android OS is getting better though, which is good. Apple has also done very well at not fragmenting their market too much, so there are a lot more apps in their market, and iOS apps are 3x as profitable as the same ones sold for Android. The Android market is horribly fragmented by the large amount of hardware variation.
> It's obvious that Apple is doing something right with their hardware releases, and they know something the Android fanboys on here don't. They didn't end up the most profitable corporation in history by accident.
> My personal opinion: I think Android phones are just fine, but there's nothing compelling to get me to leave my iPhone behind and all of my apps.


Thank you for logic.


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *born2bwild*
> 
> The iPhone PPI is higher than the Galaxy Nexus, S3 and HOX (as well as EVO).
> Those are the current Android flagship phones.


Sony's flagship phone has higher PPI, Nokia's flagship phone has a higher PPI.... You lose....


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> Sony's flagship phone has higher PPI, Nokia's flagship phone has a higher PPI.... You lose....


Everyone knows, but no one cares because the naked eye won't be able to tell the difference between +/- 10 PPI.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *NateN34*
> 
> Phone is OK. I am loving the specs and design but the screen is still too small. I mean all they did was make it a half inch taller and kept the same width..
> 
> Still think the HTC EVO 4G LTE and Samsung Galaxy S3 are better.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Calling it now:
> Looks almost exactly the same
> Slightly taller because "people want a cinematic experience"
> Screen still sub-720p
> 
> 
> 
> Is that "Screen still sub-720p" supposed to be a con?
> 
> 720p at this screen size is 326 dpi..........our eyes cannot make out the pixels, even if we put our face up to it. Anything greater than this resolution, at this screen size is an absolute waste of resources. 720p is far more than sufficient.
Click to expand...

I can see the pixels from my 4 about 2 inches away...


----------



## CrazyHeaven

I honestly think this phone is a step backwards in development. All they did was make it taller, changed the processor and added in a new home app called ios6. The LTE add on is going to get them in trouble. The strange res they had to go with adds in a layer of fragmentation that has plagued android.

I'm not really sure where Apple is going with this but I doubt it will pay off. My money is on the sells not being as high as the iphone 4 and 4s.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *XCII*
> 
> Apple's products just keep growing...


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *born2bwild*
> 
> No I agree that all listed phones are "retina" and more than satisfiable in terms of pixel density, but Apple still has the highest among flagships, and its display most certainly is still retina (which is the point Kenji was trying to refute).


Ah, I see








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GingerJohn*
> 
> My ears have trouble seeing the difference too.











Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Everyone knows, but no one cares because the naked eye won't be able to tell the difference between +/- 10 PPI.


True.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> I can see the pixels from my 4 about 2 inches away...


WTH, are you trying to push the buttons with your nose?









Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*


All we need is an andriod kicking an apple off the top similar to "this is sparta" style and it would be perfection


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> I can see the pixels from my 4 about 2 inches away...


You must have abnormal eyes. The general minimum focus distance for the human eye is around 3 inches, and that's with someone very young.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accommodation_(eye)

You're a Brit, why are you using inches anyways?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> You must have abnormal eyes. The general minimum focus distance for the human eye is around 4 inches, or so I've heard.
> You're a Brit, why are you using inches anyways?


He might be nearsighted like me.


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *born2bwild*
> 
> The iPhone PPI is higher than the Galaxy Nexus, S3 and HOX (as well as EVO).
> Those are the current Android flagship phones.


And that makes the iphone 5 the best thing out right?

I never been more disappointed in my life with electronics.


----------



## richuwo11

Sorry, had to post this.

Jimmy Kimmel - iPhone5


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *richuwo11*
> 
> Sorry, had to post this.
> Jimmy Kimmel - iPhone5


It's been posted a couple times in this thread already.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> He might be nearsighted like me.


I'm very nearsighted too and can't focus on my 4S's screen if it's closer than 5 inches away from my eyes, even then I can't see any pixels.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> It's been posted a couple times in this thread already.


What?

You want the fanoids to read?










thats funny.

too much hate to read




































































i have a much better youtube vid that I could paste... lemme go find it







.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> I can see the pixels from my 4 about 2 inches away...
> 
> 
> 
> WTH, are you trying to push the buttons with your nose?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All we need is an andriod kicking an apple off the top similar to "this is sparta" style and it would be perfection
Click to expand...

No, reading small text. Really small text.

I can make that!

*once I finish the HW i'm meant to be doing
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> I can see the pixels from my 4 about 2 inches away...
> 
> 
> 
> You must have abnormal eyes. The general minimum focus distance for the human eye is around 3 inches, and that's with someone very young.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accommodation_(eye)
> 
> You're a Brit, why are you using inches anyways?
Click to expand...

Wanted to make it readable for you americans








Also ⇓.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> You must have abnormal eyes. The general minimum focus distance for the human eye is around 4 inches, or so I've heard.
> You're a Brit, why are you using inches anyways?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He might be nearsighted like me.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's right.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *born2bwild*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *KenjiS*
> 
> Apples biggest thing has been pushing Retina displays (high pixel densities and such) onto more devices... IE the new iPad and the Retinabook
> This phone however doesnt even have that..
> 
> 
> 
> What are you talking about? The iPhone has been retina since iPhone 4. The pixel density is 326ppi, which is higher than all other flagship phones.
Click to expand...

Uh... no. Sony + lumia 920.


----------



## Animanganime

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PsYcHo29388*
> 
> Hardware in it is 1-2 years old ✓
> Overpriced Product ✓
> Milked product ✓
> People will still upgrade to it ✓
> Apple will continue this vicious cycle and force me to make a gmod video about it. ✓
> crying tears ✓


I am no Apple supporter in any sense of the word but I don't think you know the definition of a milked product. Apple releases one phone a year, Galaxy Note to Note 2 is what a couple of months? Galaxy 2 to 3 in what 8 months?


----------



## StormX2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j3st3r*
> 
> Oh shut up Android markets are way worse at this than ANY other. Apple has released all but 6 iPhones whereas there have been around 300 Android copy + pastes over the past few years. OMGOMG I am upgrading my Samsung identical S2 to my Samsung identical S3 with .03 INCHES WIDER!!!!
> The problem is Apple is doing what Android does - release a marginally better phone and call it a revolution. Apple has been releasing ground breaking products the past 5 years and this iPhone 5 is just absolute garbage. Its really just a place holder between their tick-tock; basically an iPhone 4SS. Look at the difference between the 3G -> 4.
> I am saddened. Apple is going down the Android road. Now all consumers are screwed because Android cant copy and paste anything innovative onto their phones. Stalemate for consumers.


the only thing breaking is the phone.. Thing will prob fall apart with a gentle breeze and call it user error.

Also, just because someone releases a Newer product, does not mean you should get it lol

All Apple has ever done was steal from others, and no matter what I will down upon Apple with disgust, and honestly, I dont care if everyone rips them off afterwards, just Point fingers and say, "He Started it" worked well as a kid lol


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> And no matter how well it sells and the even if the general public loves it anyway, the Android fanboys will continue to hate it.
> Bottom line: OCN members, by and large, seem to know next to nothing about how business works. You don't simply make the most money by making phones with the fastest CPU, GPU, or most pixels on the screen. Apple has done that in the past, but those things aren't what got them where they are today, it takes much more than just hardware. A few years ago about 80% of my friends owned Android phones. Today, every single one owns an iPhone. The iPhone isn't just about hardware, it's about hardware melded with an OS that does what you need it to do, and makes it easy for the consumer. The Android OS is getting better though, which is good. Apple has also done very well at not fragmenting their market too much, so there are a lot more apps in their market, and iOS apps are 3x as profitable as the same ones sold for Android. The Android market is horribly fragmented by the large amount of hardware variation.
> It's obvious that Apple is doing something right with their hardware releases, and they know something the Android fanboys on here don't. They didn't end up the most profitable corporation in history by accident.
> My personal opinion: I think Android phones are just fine, but there's nothing compelling to get me to leave my iPhone behind and all of my apps.
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have to be an Android fanboy to hate Apple or their products.
> 
> Infact, the only reason I even use Android phones is because its basically the only alternative to Apples offering.
Click to expand...

I agree. My post was mostly aimed at the Android fanboys though. I guess what I was trying to get across is that just because you like Android phones, doesn't make the iPhone bad. They can both be great phones and have their up and downsides. Just as there are iPhone fanboys that have a blind hatred of Android phones.

I have no problem with someone disliking the iPhone, that's their prorogative, but when they say stuff that makes it sound like Apple is stupid for doing A or B, or that they're just doing it wrong, those people don't have any clue what they're talking about. Based on the past 5 years, how well iOS and iPhones are doing, and Apple's finances, it should be blatantly obvious to anybody that Apple knows exactly what they're doing, and likely know better than anybody else out there.

I hear all kinds of stuff on this thread about Apple playing "catch up" and how they need to have better this or that, or a bigger screen, etc. Apple isn't trying to make the iPhone to be just like an Android phone, they don't have to, and if they did they would just be alienating their consumer base that is currently choosing iPhones over Androids. Same goes for Android phones, some of them try to be like an iPhone, and they shouldn't. If people wanted an iPhone they would just get one, why would you get an Android that wanted to be like an iPhone?

My two cents.


----------



## born2bwild

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Uh... no. Sony + lumia 920.


Lumia 920 does not even have an availability date, so it's not even an option right now.
Still iPhone is most definitely retina, and its PPI is certainly higher than the major android flagship (Nexus, S3, Evo LTE).
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> And that makes the iphone 5 the best thing out right?
> I never been more disappointed in my life with electronics.


What makes the iPhone 5 a great phone is its every fast CPU and GPU, excellent screen quality, fantastic camera, rich and well-optimized software with some of the most advanced mobile apps, as well as a very convenient size. It's a very well-rounded phone, and definitely able to stand its own ground, and it has its own impressive set of features.

Yes it was nothing revolutionary, but its competitors weren't either; the S3 was also just a bigger, faster version of the S2 with a better camera and more features.

Lastly, many people fail to understand that screen size is a preference, and the larger does not mean better. Personally, my optimal screen is somewhere between 4.0" and 4.5". Right now I have a 4.7" phone, and I find myself "regripping" it be able to use it with one hand on the go, and I'm 6' 0' with pretty large hands.


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *born2bwild*
> 
> No I agree that all listed phones are "retina" and more than satisfiable in terms of pixel density, but Apple still has the highest among flagships, and its display most certainly is still retina (which is the point Kenji was trying to refute).


The nokia lumia 920 has 332 PPI which is the highest right now


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *born2bwild*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Uh... no. Sony + lumia 920.
> 
> 
> 
> Lumia 920 does not even have an availability date, so it's not even an option right now.
> Still iPhone is most definitely retina, and its PPI is certainly higher than the major android flagship (Nexus, S3, Evo LTE).
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> And that makes the iphone 5 the best thing out right?
> I never been more disappointed in my life with electronics.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What makes the iPhone 5 a great phone is its very fast CPU and GPU, excellent screen quality, fantastic camera, rich and well-optimized software with some of the most advanced mobile apps, as well as a very convenient size. It's a very well-rounded phone, and definitely able to stand its own ground, and it has its own impressive set of features.
> 
> Yes it was nothing revolutionary, but its competitors weren't either; the S3 was also just a bigger, faster version of the S2 with a better camera and more features.
> 
> Lastly, many people fail to understand that screen size is a preference, and the larger does not mean better. Personally, my optimal screen is somewhere between 4.0" and 4.5".
Click to expand...

You argument has gone wrong... Apple is not the leader, therefore you say it is among. Then so are the Androids
.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *born2bwild*
> 
> Lumia 920 does not even have an availability date, so it's not even an option right now.
> Still iPhone is most definitely retina, and its PPI is certainly higher than the major android flagship (Nexus, S3, Evo LTE).
> What makes the iPhone 5 a great phone is its every fast CPU and GPU, excellent screen quality, fantastic camera, rich and well-optimized software with some of the most advanced mobile apps, as well as a very convenient size. It's a very well-rounded phone, and definitely able to stand its own ground, and it has its own impressive set of features.
> Yes it was nothing revolutionary, but its competitors weren't either; the S3 was also just a bigger, faster version of the S2 with a better camera and more features.
> Lastly, many people fail to understand that screen size is a preference, and the larger does not mean better. Personally, my optimal screen is somewhere between 4.0" and 4.5".


The note was revolutionary though









And you need to qualify the S3 as a great phone too, as it matches the same criteria as your description of the iPhone.

edit:crap double post, sowwy


----------



## ImmortalKenny

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> The note was revolutionary though


How so? The only thing it has going for itself is screen size.


----------



## born2bwild

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> You argument has gone wrong... Apple is not the leader, therefore you say it is among. Then so are the Androids.


No it hasn't; my argument is that iPhone was retina and has the highest PPI among the best-selling flagship phones on the market. I just didn't clarify that I was referring to the Nexus, S3 and HOX/Evo.
"Among the highest" still denotes a leader.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> And you need to qualify the S3 as a great phone too, as it matches the same criteria as your description of the iPhone.


The S3 is a great phone as well. All major flagships are great phones tbh. It just comes down to preferences, etc.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j3st3r*
> 
> So true. And then they would turn around and plead ignorance as always.
> To be fair, both companies need new direction. Samsung needs to stop being such baby and playing the convenience card while riding on the backs of consumer sympathy while Apple needs to set their standards much higher in terms of innovation. Risk taking was always their niche under Jobs and its time they go back to that.
> In all honesty, Samsung hasn't innovated jack in terms of phones. They haven't released ANYTHING new that any other phone manufacturer had already released. All they did was introduce their fancy, and sometimes terrible, screen technology. HTC was the first company to really push the 3-4 inch screen size with the Evo @ 4.3 inches (my first Android phone mind you). And the entirety of the Android OS was basically a copy + paste mimic of iOS. Look at Windows phones for what real creativity looks like. All Samsung does is pump out phones every month with incremental hardware upgrades that fracture the Android phone base even more. Oh... and let's not forget that terrible toilet paper OS called Touchwiz. Good on you Sammy.
> If I was Google I would separate myself from Samsung and focus more on creating phones myself. Its obvious they cannot trust a rogue corporation like Samsung to make intelligent decisions in regards to business ethics. It has become painfully obvious that Samsung attempts to bypass legal boundaries because of their global scale, but unfortunately, they are fighting a much bigger dog. All this hype about Android manufacturers suing Apple 'when this' and 'if that' happens is pure rubbish. It simply won't happen because the cost benefit analysis won't work in any companies favor. HTC is struggling as it is - and Samsung has been losing nearly all legal battles. You can assume some kind of global conspiracy is going on to oppress precious Samsung but when you step out of the box and look at the evidence, Samsung has and will be in the wrong as long as they continue to try to be a ignorant thief.
> Apple, on the other hand, has simply dropped the ball on the iPhone 5 release. Some of it had to do with the iPhone being leaked, but a lot of it didn't. Lets not forget that the iPhone 4 was also leaked, but the presentation was absolutely MIND numbing. Not only was the design changed 100%, there was a introduction of a front facing camera, a completely new RETINA display, the radio bands were on the OUTSIDE of the phone, and the materials used were completely original and unheard of. This is what the general public expects of Apple releases, especially since they tease us so much with the tick-tock pattern of releases. They dropped the ball. To some extent, I want to blame Tim Cook as he was the only huge variable that has changed since production began, but then again, who knows what happened. I am perfectly content with my 4S and see no real benefit from switching the 5 besides an LTE radio since I am on Verizon's slow 3G network. If I was on HSPA, no upgrade required at all. Shame on you, Apple. Shame.


Totally disagree regarding your Samsung comments.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> I agree. My post was mostly aimed at the Android fanboys though. I guess what I was trying to get across is that just because you like Android phones, doesn't make the iPhone bad. They can both be great phones and have their up and downsides. Just as there are iPhone fanboys that have a blind hatred of Android phones.
> I have no problem with someone disliking the iPhone, that's their prorogative, but when they say stuff that makes it sound like Apple is stupid for doing A or B, or that they're just doing it wrong, those people don't have any clue what they're talking about. Based on the past 5 years, how well iOS and iPhones are doing, and Apple's finances, it should be blatantly obvious to anybody that Apple knows exactly what they're doing, and likely know better than anybody else out there.
> I hear all kinds of stuff on this thread about Apple playing "catch up" and how they need to have better this or that, or a bigger screen, etc. Apple isn't trying to make the iPhone to be just like an Android phone, they don't have to, and if they did they would just be alienating their consumer base that is currently choosing iPhones over Androids. Same goes for Android phones, some of them try to be like an iPhone, and they shouldn't. If people wanted an iPhone they would just get one, why would you get an Android that wanted to be like an iPhone?
> My two cents.


To be quite fair, most people who are going to buy this new iPhone are buying it because it's the new iPhone. You've seen that video. Most of the people they come across in the street didn't even know the difference. Sure, there's your techies like steelbom who know the innerards. But most are ignorant to it.

And the problem here is those ignorant to what's inside that makes it good will claim it's good and give bullcrap reasoning. That has to be my main pet hate for Apple fanguys (that Apple tech fans) because they just make crap up or follow what others say. "oh Apple care is so great"... yeah it wants to be for the price. "oh Apple look after their customers" Yeah with $30 silicon fixes for hardware issues. "Oh it just works"... So do many other things. The list is endless.


----------



## TG_bigboss

Quote:


> "The world's thinnest smartphone."


really!?!?! have you seen the droid razor? that is the worlds thinnest smartphone apple. lol


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Totally disagree regarding your Samsung comments.
> To be quite fair, most people who are going to buy this new iPhone are buying it because it's the new iPhone. You've seen that video. Most of the people they come across in the street didn't even know the difference. Sure, there's your techies like steelbom who know the innerards. But most are ignorant to it.
> And the problem here is those ignorant to what's inside that makes it good will claim it's good and give bullcrap reasoning. That has to be my main pet hate for Apple fanguys (that Apple tech fans) because they just make crap up or follow what others say. "oh Apple care is so great"... yeah it wants to be for the price. "oh Apple look after their customers" Yeah with $30 silicon fixes for hardware issues. "Oh it just works"... So do many other things. The list is endless.


pet peeve*

hate is such a strong word








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> How so? The only thing it has going for itself is screen size.


Oh, I don't know, maybe something about the re-vitalization of the stylus (a wacom stylus in a phone, hells ya)?

The product's so popular that it's sold out on most carriers and spawned off a tab variant with a hardware refresh a couple of months off for the phone variant.

I've been waiting for another stylus since the death of resistive screens.


----------



## Oedipus

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TG_bigboss*
> 
> really!?!?! have you seen the droid razor? that is the worlds thinnest smartphone apple. lol


That's up for debate. The Droid Razr is a lot thicker up near the top of the phone where the camera is, though the skinnier part is thinner than 7.6 mm (iphone 5 thickness.)


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *born2bwild*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> You argument has gone wrong... Apple is not the leader, therefore you say it is among. Then so are the Androids
> .
> 
> 
> 
> No it hasn't; my argument is that iPhone was retina and has the highest PPI among the best-selling flagship phones on the market. I just didn't clarify that.
> "Among the highest" still denotes a leader.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> And you need to qualify the S3 as a great phone too, as it matches the same criteria as your description of the iPhone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The S3 is a great phone as well. All major flagships are great phones tbh. It just comes down to preferences, etc.
Click to expand...

And my preference is non-iphone.

Among the highest is the S3, EVO, OX, what's your point?


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> I agree. My post was mostly aimed at the Android fanboys though. I guess what I was trying to get across is that just because you like Android phones, doesn't make the iPhone bad. They can both be great phones and have their up and downsides. Just as there are iPhone fanboys that have a blind hatred of Android phones.
> I have no problem with someone disliking the iPhone, that's their prorogative, but when they say stuff that makes it sound like Apple is stupid for doing A or B, or that they're just doing it wrong, those people don't have any clue what they're talking about. Based on the past 5 years, how well iOS and iPhones are doing, and Apple's finances, it should be blatantly obvious to anybody that Apple knows exactly what they're doing, and likely know better than anybody else out there.
> I hear all kinds of stuff on this thread about Apple playing "catch up" and how they need to have better this or that, or a bigger screen, etc. Apple isn't trying to make the iPhone to be just like an Android phone, they don't have to, and if they did they would just be alienating their consumer base that is currently choosing iPhones over Androids. Same goes for Android phones, some of them try to be like an iPhone, and they shouldn't. If people wanted an iPhone they would just get one, why would you get an Android that wanted to be like an iPhone?
> My two cents.
> 
> 
> 
> To be quite fair, most people who are going to buy this new iPhone are buying it because it's the new iPhone. You've seen that video. Most of the people they come across in the street didn't even know the difference. Sure, there's your techies like steelbom who know the innerards. But most are ignorant to it.
> 
> And the problem here is those ignorant to what's inside that makes it good will claim it's good and give bullcrap reasoning. That has to be my main pet hate for Apple fanguys (that Apple tech fans) because they just make crap up or follow what others say. "oh Apple care is so great"... yeah it wants to be for the price. "oh Apple look after their customers" Yeah with $30 silicon fixes for hardware issues. "Oh it just works"... So do many other things. The list is endless.
Click to expand...

You're correct that many people won't know the details about the phones, but they will know whether or not they like the experience. Apple doesn't require that every consumer know the details of the phone, just that they're happy with their purchase and continue to want the next iPhone, and they've done that well. This isn't any different than any other company. There were likely many Samsung S2 owners out there that didn't know much about their phone's specs, but wanted the S3 because they loved the S2. You just hear a lot more about it with the iPhone because there are so many more iPhones out there than any other phone.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> You're correct that many people won't know the details about the phones, but they will know whether or not they like the experience. Apple doesn't require that every consumer know the details of the phone, just that they're happy with their purchase and continue to want the next iPhone, and they've done that well. This isn't any different than any other company. There were likely many Samsung S2 owners out there that didn't know much about their phone's specs, but wanted the S3 because they loved the S2. You just hear a lot more about it with the iPhone because there are so many more iPhones out there than any other phone.


Anedotal but I've seen 4x as many driod phones in my area than iPhones.


----------



## Alatar

Guys, please don't use the 1px text size, all text on OCN should be easy and comfortable for users to read.


----------



## Nocturin

KK we were just having fun!


----------



## PCSarge

in before someone says

" i dropped my iphone 5 from waist height and the screen shattered"

or

" i dropped it from waist height and the back broke into pieces"


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Alatar*
> 
> Guys, please don't use the 1px text size, all text on OCN should be easy and comfortable for users to read.


Now 2px?

Got a post exactly like this when I waws using 0px lol


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCSarge*
> 
> in before someone says
> " i dropped my iphone 5 from waist height and the screen shattered"
> or
> " i dropped it from waist height and the back broke into pieces"


in4idroppedmyS2fromwaisandnothinghappened

seriously.

like twice today.

I dropped my TP2 soo much that the housing was cracking apart. Screen was fine tho.


----------



## Nocturin

I really should be working....


----------



## Alatar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Now 2px?
> Got a post exactly like this when I waws using 0px lol


7px (same as size 0) is about the smallest that you should go. As I said, comfortable and easy to read, 2px is definitely not that.

Also, no more derailing, back to the topic guys.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> You're correct that many people won't know the details about the phones, but they will know whether or not they like the experience. Apple doesn't require that every consumer know the details of the phone, just that they're happy with their purchase and continue to want the next iPhone, and they've done that well. This isn't any different than any other company. There were likely many Samsung S2 owners out there that didn't know much about their phone's specs, but wanted the S3 because they loved the S2. You just hear a lot more about it with the iPhone because there are so many more iPhones out there than any other phone.
> 
> 
> 
> Anedotal but I've seen 4x as many driod phones in my area than iPhones.
Click to expand...

That's because there are 4x as many droid phones out there than iPhones. iPhones are the most popular phone model, but iOS is not the most popular phone operating system.

Here's a graph, you can see the iPhone is the most popular phone model, but there are many more Android phones still:


This is a year old, but it hasn't changed all the much since then.
Here's a source from May of this year:
http://www.tech.sc/npd-announces-that-android-surpassed-ios-in-contradiction-with-the-carriers-reports/


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> That's because there are 4x as many droid phones out there than iPhones. iPhones are the most popular phone model, but iOS is not the most popular phone operating system.


age. most popular single model. Gotcha


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oedipus*
> 
> That's up for debate. The Droid Razr is a lot thicker up near the top of the phone where the camera is, though the skinnier part is thinner than 7.6 mm (iphone 5 thickness.)


Its 7.1mm on the thinnest part


----------



## Oupavoc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Great article from BBC - totally agree with it:
> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19557497
> Basically saying how Apple isn't the same. Nothing in the launch was a surprise. We knew the shape, screen size, and tech at least a month before launch. There hasn't been any radical changes to anything in its looks. Everyone claims that the iPhone "revolutionized smartphones" back in 2007 - but really, what has it done since then? Its essentially the exact same phone.
> Copy-Pasted just in case some actually blocked BBC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> Somewhere up there, I can hear Steve screaming.
> Back in 2006 I launched a blog where I pretended to be Apple CEO Steve Jobs. My alter ego, "Fake Steve," had a good run, but I shut it down in January 2011 when it became apparent that Jobs was in poor health. Nevertheless, even now, I'm constantly wondering what Steve would think about whatever Apple is doing.
> This week it's the iPhone 5. Everyone pretty much accepts that Apple will introduce it, and there have been so many leaks that everybody pretty much seems to know what it's going to be. Word is it will look a lot like the last two versions of the iPhone, except a bit thinner and a bit taller, with upgraded guts and a refreshed operating system.
> iPhone and Galaxy S3 being held Samsung's Galaxy S3 is outselling the iPhone 4S in some countries
> If that's correct, I imagine Steve is not happy. First of all, he'd be furious about the leaks. Steve liked surprising people.
> More important, is this really the best we can expect from an outfit that claims to be the most innovative company in the world? This is the sixth version of the iPhone, and the user interface still looks almost exactly like the original iPhone in 2007.
> The hardware on the iPhone has been the same for two years, since the iPhone 4 and 4S were virtually identical.
> Now, having had two years to plot and scheme, Apple's renowned designer Jonathan Ive has replaced the tiny 3.5in (8.9cm) screen with a slightly-less-tiny 4in (10.2cm) screen? Wow. Knock me over with a feather. What do you do with the rest of your time, Jony?
> This is what happens when a company is too cheap to invest in research and development. Did you know that Apple spends far less on R&D than any of its rivals - a paltry 2% of revenues, versus 14% for Google and Microsoft?
> No wonder the Android platform, where new models appear every week, now represents 68% of the smartphone market, up from 47% a year ago, while Apple slid to 17% over the same period.
> In case you're bad at maths, let me work that out for you: Android's market share is now four times that of Apple. Four times!
> Worse, despite all its bluster about innovation, Apple has become a copycat, and not even a good one. Why is Apple making the iPhone bigger? To keep up with the top Android phones.
> (Phones that, mind you, Apple fanboys ridiculed at first.)
> The problem is that the new iPhone won't really give you much more screen real estate than the old one. Worse, it looks ridiculous.
> Apple also has become a copycat in tablets. Jobs once said the iPad's 9.7in screen was the perfect size, and smaller tablets made no sense. Then the Android camp had success with 7in tablets like Amazon's Kindle Fire and Google's Nexus 7, and now Apple supposedly will announce its own smaller iPad in October. Talk about thinking different!
> What else is there to complain about?
> Um, Siri still doesn't work. The oft-rumoured Apple TV doesn't exist yet, presumably because media companies won't let Apple take over their business.
> The latest batch of Apple ads were such embarrassing garbage that Apple had to take them down from YouTube. Apple's new guy in charge of retail launched a plan to lay off workers and boost profits, then had to walk it back when people pointed out that this was stupid.
> The big $1bn (£650m) patent "victory" over Samsung made Apple look like a bully, and also raised awareness of how good Samsung's latest products are.
> Last month, Samsung's Galaxy S3, with its huge 4.8in screen, outsold the iPhone 4S in the United States, the first time any smartphone has outsold the iPhone in the States.
> Apple got where it was by taking bold risks. Now it has become a company that copies others and plays it safe.
> A company that once was run by a product visionary now is run by a number-cruncher - chief executive Tim Cook, whose claim to fame involves running an efficient supply chain and beating ever lower prices out of Asian subcontractors and component suppliers.
> To use a car analogy, six years ago the iPhone was like a sexy new flagship model from BMW or Porsche. Today it's a Toyota Camry. Safe, reliable, boring. The car your mom drives. The car that's so popular that its maker doesn't dare mess with the formula.
> Apple seems less interested in blowing people away than it is in milking profit out of the existing lineup. At this Cook is doing marvellously well.
> Sales are booming and will top $150bn this year, with net profit margins of nearly 30%. That's incredible in any business, but qualifies as a miracle when you're selling consumer electronics hardware.
> Apple has more than $100bn in cash. Its market value of $632bn makes it the biggest company in the world, bigger than any company in US history.
> That's great for Apple's shareholders. But for customers, who cares? In terms of products, Apple has become the one thing it should never be. Apple has become boring.
> Somewhere up there, I can hear Steve screaming.


I agree 100%. Good read imo.


----------



## Erio

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> This is a year old, but it hasn't changed all the much since then.
> Here's a source from May of this year:
> http://www.tech.sc/npd-announces-that-android-surpassed-ios-in-contradiction-with-the-carriers-reports/


Nope it changed a lot.
HTC went down.
Apple went down.
Samsung went way up.
Android in total went way up.
Now Android have almost four times the market that iSO have, compare to the 3/2 in your graph.
Also Samsung have more smartphone market share than Apple now.

http://www.email-marketing-reports.com/wireless-mobile/smartphone-statistics.htm

their source is IDC
http://www.idc.com/


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erio*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> This is a year old, but it hasn't changed all the much since then.
> Here's a source from May of this year:
> http://www.tech.sc/npd-announces-that-android-surpassed-ios-in-contradiction-with-the-carriers-reports/
> 
> 
> 
> Nope it changed a lot.
> HTC went down.
> Apple went down.
> Samsung went way up.
> Android in total went way up.
> Now Android have almost four times the market that iSO have, compare to the 3/2 in your graph.
> Also Samsung have more smartphone market share than Apple now.
Click to expand...

Yea, it was actually a pretty big shift. That's why I included the link for a more recent graph. Still, even if Samsung were higher on the graph than Apple, it doesn't tell us about phone models, just brands. Marketshare is the biggest thing, for sure, but Samsung's is split among many devices, Apple's is split mostly among 3 models (4S, 4, 3GS).


----------



## j3st3r

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Erio*
> 
> Nope it changed a lot.
> HTC went down.
> Apple went down.
> Samsung went way up.
> Android in total went way up.
> Now Android have almost four times the market that iSO have, compare to the 3/2 in your graph.
> Also Samsung have more smartphone market share than Apple now.
> http://www.email-marketing-reports.com/wireless-mobile/smartphone-statistics.htm
> their source is IDC
> http://www.idc.com/


Samsung went up because of the vast amounts of phones they have. I don't think it is really an indicator of anything other than their production numbers. One of the 4 largest mobile providers in the US does not even carry the iPhone but has vast amounts of Android and Samsung products. To be fair, its pretty astounding one company can have such a large market share when they are competing with several others. Give credit where credit is due.


----------



## 2010rig

Check out what people think about the iPhone 5.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*


That's the 4th time this has been posted in this thread.


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j3st3r*
> 
> Samsung went up because of the vast amounts of phones they have. I don't think it is really an indicator of anything other than their production numbers. One of the 4 largest mobile providers in the US does not even carry the iPhone but has vast amounts of Android and Samsung products. To be fair, its pretty astounding one company can have such a large market share when they are competing with several others. Give credit where credit is due.


Apple should have, they've such a head start on every other phone maker in the smart phone sector.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> That's the 4th time this has been posted in this thread.


Figures.

I haven't really gone through the thread. Just came across this on Facebook and found it hilarious.

Has this been posted?











I'm shocked at who has the most posts in this thread.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Figures.
> I haven't really gone through the thread. Just came across this on Facebook and found it hilarious.
> Has this been posted?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm shocked at who has the most posts in this thread.


Man I must be right behind steelbom then! how did you check that anyways?


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> Man I must be right behind steelbom then! how did you check that anyways?


Click the *replies* for the thread here...



You're only at 24 posts, he's still at more than double your post count...


----------



## Newbie2009

mmmm, so this is more up against a Galaxy SII than an SIII? Am I reading right?


----------



## cubanresourceful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> mmmm, so this is more up against a Galaxy SII than an SIII? Am I reading right?


How do you come to that conclusion???


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Newbie2009*
> 
> mmmm, so this is more up against a Galaxy SII than an SIII? Am I reading right?


we dont know just yet.

i'm predicting it will be slightly faster than the s3 considering that the s3 is (roughly) 2x as powerful as the iThingy4S.

gpu will be slightly to 1/3 faster than the s3 most likely.

post 27


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> we dont know just yet.
> i'm predicting it will be slightly faster than the s3 considering that the s3 is (roughly) 2x as powerful as the iThingy4S.
> gpu will be slightly to 1/3 faster than the s3 most likely.


In the real world though the S3 will be doing more work as it has more pixels to render....


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> In the real world though the S3 will be doing more work as it has more pixels to render....


shhh. don't stir the pot







.

You might disrupt the time dilation of an iThingy playing ketchup to device that was launched 4 months ago (with an A15 variant no less!)


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cubanresourceful*
> 
> How do you come to that conclusion???


Specs look similar to my SII. I am not familiar with S3 specs, but assume it is much better than my S2. Also a major apple head who has been preaching apple for the last few years has admitted after seeing the new phone he has started looking at the Galaxy S3.

Someone who is majorly hooked into the "APPLE UNIVERSE" WITH desktop, macbooks, ipads etc etc.

Still in shock actually lol.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> we dont know just yet.
> i'm predicting it will be slightly faster than the s3 considering that the s3 is (roughly) 2x as powerful as the iThingy4S.
> gpu will be slightly to 1/3 faster than the s3 most likely.


From what I read it looks decent at least. I'm sure it will sell loads regardless.


----------



## quakermaas

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Animanganime*
> 
> I am no Apple supporter in any sense of the word but I don't think you know the definition of a milked product. Apple releases one phone a year, Galaxy Note to Note 2 is what a couple of months? Galaxy 2 to 3 in what 8 months?


Galaxy Note (UK) November 3rd. 2011

http://www.t3.com/news/samsung-galaxy-note-uk-release-date-officially-confirmed

Galaxy Note 2 About two weeks ago.

http://www.t3.com/news/samsung-galaxy-note-2-release-confirmed-with-ifa-launch

So that is 10 months

Galaxy SII was released May 2011 (note that the Galaxy SII had a long delay in the US.)

Galaxy SIII was around the same date 2012

So that was one year or slightly more


----------



## Ocnewb

IP5 is such a disappointment "imo". Guess i'll have to wait for the Galaxy Note 2 to upgrade from my S2. 4" is kinda too small nowadays after using 4.5" or larger. Last time when i borrowed my friend's 4s, i was thinking to myself "wth, the screen is tiny, it's so hard to use with tiny screen like that".


----------



## Newbie2009

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ocnewb*
> 
> IP5 is such a disappointment "imo". Guess i'll have to wait for the Galaxy Note 2 to upgrade from my S2. 4" is kinda too small nowadays after using 4.5" or larger. Last time when i borrowed my friend's 4s, i was thinking to myself "wth, the screen is tiny, it's so hard to use with tiny screen like that".


You are looking at the screen wrong.....sorry had to.


----------



## 3930K

Lol

IPS is awesome.


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ocnewb*
> 
> IP5 is such a disappointment "imo". Guess i'll have to wait for the Galaxy Note 2 to upgrade from my S2. 4" is kinda too small nowadays after using 4.5" or larger. Last time when i borrowed my friend's 4s, i was thinking to myself "wth, the screen is tiny, it's so hard to use with tiny screen like that".


That is so true, you don't truly realise how small and crappy the current 4S's screen size is until you've used a phone with a 4.3"+ screen.


----------



## 3930K

Oh he meant iPhone 5.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Oh he meant iPhone 5.


Lol how's that nearsightedness working out for you?


----------



## GrizzleBoy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> That is so true, you don't truly realise how small and crappy the current 4S's screen size is until you've used a phone with a 4.3"+ screen.


Indeed.

The first time my sister saw my S3, she held it up behind her 4s and the 4s was basically the size of the S3 screen lol. Even comparing it to my original S's screen, I could never go back. It almost seems like the GPU is (assuming good benches) potentially wasted on such a small screen. Especially when touting "console quality" graphics.

She also seemed quite disappointed in the small screen size of the iPhone 5 and made fun of it being long.

Tbh, this is actually the first time I've seen both the media and people I know give a big "meh" to an iPhone launch. They seem to be underwhelmed by the similarity and size.


----------



## CaptainChaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GrizzleBoy*
> 
> Tbh, this is actually the first time I've seen both the media and people I know give a big "meh" to an iPhone launch. They seem to be underwhelmed by the similarity and size.


Very true, I've noticed the same thing.

If I was someone on the fence about which way to go, the iPhones new screen size might compel me to go iOS if I was already leaning in that direction, otherwise I don't think there is anything too compelling that would make me go iPhone this time around. Obviously I might be biased, but that's the general feeling I get.


----------



## doomlord52

This made me laugh:


----------



## DizzlePro

*Apple can't further redesign the iphone, they have patented the round edged phone body so if they change it samsung will hunt them down like wolves and sue them for their foolish law suits that﻿ cost 1 billion to samsung .*


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DizzlePro*
> 
> *Apple can't further redesign the iphone, they have patented the round edged phone body so if they change it samsung will hunt them down like wolves and sue them for their foolish law suits that﻿ cost 20 odd million to samsung for galaxy s.*


try 1bn give or take 500m


----------



## Blackops_2

I'm by no means an apple fan but i really like that it's 4" i own a galaxyS and it's as big as i want a phone. Anything bigger and it's just too bulky. The idea of increasing screen size with each new product just isn't my cup of tea.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*
> 
> I'm by no means an apple fan but i really like that it's 4" i own a galaxy and it's as big as i want a phone. Anything bigger and it's just too bulky. The idea of increasing screen size with each new product just isn't my cup of tea.


You dont need to be n apple fan to like small phones







.

the GS2 is plenty size for me. There is a moto phone (the small razr) that I like beause of the small profiles.


----------



## last_exile

iPhone 5 looks similar to the iPhone 4S? BMWs look similar to their predecessors?



Seriously, I'm a bit sick of the constant bashing and expectations of a revolution at the turn of every single product launch. If revolutions happened every other day, we'd cry for even greater revolution. iPhone models are constant _evolutions_, just like the updating of every other product.

Take it for what it is. An evolution of a product line. Don't bash it just because it's not radically different. Actually, people would probably still bash it even if it were, citing reasons like, "It's too different it'll never work!!!!!" (Remember the first iPhone?)

Having said that, brb putting on my tinfoil hat


----------



## L D4WG

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *last_exile*
> 
> iPhone 5 looks similar to the iPhone 4S? BMWs look similar to their predecessors?
> 
> Seriously, I'm a bit sick of the constant bashing and expectations of a revolution at the turn of every single product launch. If revolutions happened every other day, we'd cry for even greater revolution. iPhone models are constant _evolutions_, just like the updating of every other product.
> Take it for what it is. An evolution of a product line. Don't bash it just because it's not radically different. Actually, people would probably still bash it even if it were, citing reasons like, "It's too different it'll never work!!!!!" (Remember the first iPhone?)
> Having said that, brb putting on my tinfoil hat


Couldn't agree more with you, they make a great design better each time ever so slightly, they change it enough to make it feel fresh which keep that same great look, style and build quality.

Unlike the Galaxy series for example which changes a fair amount each time, and are still made of plastic which peels and chips so easily.

Both my mum, and brother own a galaxy s1 and Galaxy S 2, both look ok when new and turn crap very soon after.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *last_exile*
> 
> iPhone 5 looks similar to the iPhone 4S? BMWs look similar to their predecessors?
> 
> Seriously, I'm a bit sick of the constant bashing and expectations of a revolution at the turn of every single product launch. If revolutions happened every other day, we'd cry for even greater revolution. iPhone models are constant _evolutions_, just like the updating of every other product.
> Take it for what it is. An evolution of a product line. Don't bash it just because it's not radically different. Actually, people would probably still bash it even if it were, citing reasons like, "It's too different it'll never work!!!!!" (Remember the first iPhone?)
> Having said that, brb putting on my tinfoil hat


You have an excellent point. If only Apple's marketing used the term "evolution".


----------



## hajile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DizzlePro*
> 
> Apple can't further redesign the iphone, they have patented the round edged phone body so if they change it samsung will hunt them down like wolves and sue them for their foolish law suits that﻿ cost 1 billion to samsung .


Woz finally weighed in on the patent issue (and the iphone 5) talking to Bloomberg today.
Quote:


> "I hate it," Wozniak said when asked about the patent fights between Apple and Samsung. "I don't think the decision of California will hold. And I don't agree with it -- very small things I don't really call that innovative.
> 
> "I wish everybody would just agree to exchange all the patents and everybody can build the best forms they want to use everybody's technologies."


Quote:


> "I am always excited about every iPhone product because there are always good advances," Wozniak said in an interview in Shanghai today. "A better quality on the pictures will mean a lot, because when I show people pictures on my iPhone 4 and my Galaxy S III, they always say the Galaxy S III, or even the Motorola Razr, pictures look better."


----------



## dakU

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *L D4WG*
> 
> Couldn't agree more with you, they make a great design better each time ever so slightly, they change it enough to make it feel fresh which keep that same great look, style and build quality.
> Unlike the Galaxy series for example which changes a fair amount each time, *and are still made of plastic which peels and chips so easily.*
> Both my mum, and brother own a galaxy s1 and Galaxy S 2, both look ok when new and turn crap very soon after.


Lol. And yet, my sis's iPhone couldn't survive a 3 feet fall.

I accidentally dropped my Nexus while riding my bike - still works like a charm.

I'd take "plastic which peels and chips so easily" over iPhone's "style, and build quality" every time.


----------



## brandon6199

I know that we'll be able to pre-order the iPhone 5 on September 14th, but does anyone know if that's going to be midnight? Have they announced a time?

The reason I ask is due to time-zone differences. It's already September 14th on the east coast. Are any of you able to pre-order it already?


----------



## hajile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brandon6199*
> 
> I know that we'll be able to pre-order the iPhone 5 on September 14th, but does anyone know if that's going to be midnight? Have they announced a time?
> The reason I ask is due to time-zone differences. It's already September 14th on the east coast. Are any of you able to pre-order it already?


It's 12:01 pacific time. You have a couple hours more. (source: CNET)


----------



## brandon6199

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hajile*
> 
> It's 12:01 pacific time. You have a couple hours more. (source: CNET)


Thanks hajile.+REP

Would you recommend pre-ordering it directly through Apple's online site? Or am I better off pre-ordering it directly through my carrier (Verizon)? In regards to getting the order sooner?


----------



## hajile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brandon6199*
> 
> Thanks hajile.+REP
> Would you recommend pre-ordering it directly through Apple's online site? Or am I better off pre-ordering it directly through my carrier (Verizon)? In regards to getting the order sooner?


I don't have anything concrete, but I would probably order from Apple and have one less layer of bureaucracy in the way (and I would rather deal with Apple customer service than Verizon).

edit: theVerge has an article on ordering, I don't know if it will help or not.


----------



## wint0nic

iPhone 5 looks amazing. I will be preordering it today.


----------



## wint0nic

@hajile,

Last year, when our customers ordered from APple, they had a delay in activations, if you order directly from the carrier, this won't happen, just FYI.
I am an AT&T rep and I remember the long line of people having to wait for it to activate!


----------



## Chilly

Doesn't matter how "great" or "lame" the iPhone is. You still have to deal with iTunes.


----------



## hajile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *wint0nic*
> 
> @hajile,
> Last year, when our customers ordered from APple, they had a delay in activations, if you order directly from the carrier, this won't happen, just FYI.
> I am an AT&T rep and I remember the long line of people having to wait for it to activate!


Verizon allows you to go online, type in a code and activate the phone. It's easy (see here)

@brandon6199
Just a thought (I'm not sure)
You may need to pre-order through Verizon in order to keep an unlimited data plan (if you have one).


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *darkstar585*
> 
> I kinda agree...*But* its the only thing 90% of people who buy apple products care about and in the end it still does everything that the 4/4s does....Apart from being stretched out a bit and slightly faster and using stolen LTE technology.
> 
> Its hardly industry changing and quite frankly its boring IMO.


Very few if any care about looks if they smartphone doesn't work well. People buy the iPhone because it's well known to "just work" and they keep it because of that very reason. And the Galaxy S pretty much does everything the S 2 and S3 do as well. The 5 is a significant upgrade over the 4S -- it's a power house, particularly in the GPU department.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> The GPU is already on the market... Not ahead of the curve


It's irrelevant. No other smartphone has a GPU even remotely as powerful as the SGX543MP4.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PsYcHo29388*
> 
> Hardware in it is 1-2 years old ✓
> Overpriced Product ✓
> Milked product ✓
> People will still upgrade to it ✓
> Apple will continue this vicious cycle and force me to make a gmod video about it. ✓
> crying tears ✓


Not overpriced. Not milked???? Hardware is state of the art?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> And no matter how well it sells and the even if the general public loves it anyway, the Android fanboys will continue to hate it.
> 
> Bottom line: OCN members, by and large, seem to know next to nothing about how business works. You don't simply make the most money by making phones with the fastest CPU, GPU, or most pixels on the screen. Apple has done that in the past, but those things aren't what got them where they are today, it takes much more than just hardware. A few years ago about 80% of my friends owned Android phones. Today, every single one owns an iPhone. The iPhone isn't just about hardware, it's about hardware melded with an OS that does what you need it to do, and makes it easy for the consumer. The Android OS is getting better though, which is good. Apple has also done very well at not fragmenting their market too much, so there are a lot more apps in their market, and iOS apps are 3x as profitable as the same ones sold for Android. The Android market is horribly fragmented by the large amount of hardware variation.
> 
> It's obvious that Apple is doing something right with their hardware releases, and they know something the Android fanboys on here don't. They didn't end up the most profitable corporation in history by accident.
> 
> My personal opinion: I think Android phones are just fine, but there's nothing compelling to get me to leave my iPhone behind and all of my apps.


This all the way.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *doomlord52*
> 
> Great article from BBC - totally agree with it:
> http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19557497
> 
> Basically saying how Apple isn't the same. Nothing in the launch was a surprise. We knew the shape, screen size, and tech at least a month before launch. There hasn't been any radical changes to anything in its looks. Everyone claims that the iPhone "revolutionized smartphones" back in 2007 - but really, what has it done since then? Its essentially the exact same phone.
> 
> Copy-Pasted just in case some actually blocked BBC


It's been pushing powerful graphics and high resolution displays. And we still didn't know what CPU or GPU it was using until the announcement.... we still don't.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cubanresourceful*
> 
> I completely agree with this article. First, personal quip, I love not being a fanboy. I have owned, over the past few years, Windows Mobile, Windows Phone 7, iOS, Android. They are all good in their own right. Usually, new iPhones excite me, or are exciting in general. Even the 4S excited me a bit because of the improved camera, Siri (which turned out to be DOA), among other things. This iPhone launch was not exciting. Even the Nokia launch was more exciting (in terms of raw, technical details and product announcement, PR wise they need to be more like Apple, their even was boring). That said, maybe all the flak they're receiving from news outlets (the one's that are more unbaised, ie not Apple based news outlets, nor WP/Android based) may cause them again to take more risks (which is exciting).


Siri's definitely not DOA. It's going to take time for it become what Apple wants, but it's going to happen. I wish they had of released more stuff at the Keynote -- more hardware is more fun.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *j3st3r*
> 
> Oh shut up Android markets are way worse at this than ANY other. Apple has released all but 6 iPhones whereas there have been around 300 Android copy + pastes over the past few years. OMGOMG I am upgrading my Samsung identical S2 to my Samsung identical S3 with .03 INCHES WIDER!!!!
> 
> The problem is Apple is doing what Android does - release a marginally better phone and call it a revolution. Apple has been releasing ground breaking products the past 5 years and this iPhone 5 is just absolute garbage. Its really just a place holder between their tick-tock; basically an iPhone 4SS. Look at the difference between the 3G -> 4.
> 
> I am saddened. Apple is going down the Android road. Now all consumers are screwed because Android cant copy and paste anything innovative onto their phones. Stalemate for consumers.


How is the iPhone 5 garbage? It finally has a larger display like many have wanted whilst still retaining the same pixel density, it's lighter and thinner than before, and it has a very powerful processor and graphics. Not to mention the other improvements to the camera or even better battery life.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CrazyHeaven*
> 
> I honestly think this phone is a step backwards in development. All they did was make it taller, changed the processor and added in a new home app called ios6. The LTE add on is going to get them in trouble. The strange res they had to go with adds in a layer of fragmentation that has plagued android.
> 
> I'm not really sure where Apple is going with this but I doubt it will pay off. My money is on the sells not being as high as the iphone 4 and 4s.


That's not all they did at all. They made the screen larger, added a greatly improved processor and graphics. It's got 4G LTE, (likely) more RAM, better battery life, and it's incredibly thin and light.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PCSarge*
> 
> in before someone says
> 
> " i dropped my iphone 5 from waist height and the screen shattered"
> 
> or
> 
> " i dropped it from waist height and the back broke into pieces"


It may actually be much more durable than the iPhone 4 or 4S. It's a unibody design (unlike with previous models where the glass was attached) with a metal back and it's substantially lighter so there should be less impact.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> That's the 4th time this has been posted in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Figures.
> 
> I haven't really gone through the thread. Just came across this on Facebook and found it hilarious.
> 
> Has this been posted?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ~snip~
> 
> I'm shocked at who has the most posts in this thread.
Click to expand...

I never knew you could check that. That's awesome.


----------



## CrazyDiamond

Hey guys, check this out: http://www.overclock.net/t/1305734/apple-iphone-5-64gb-for-399-free-iphone-4-more-details-must-see/0_20

Don't mean to push my thread into another, but opposed to re-typing it all out here, I figured some people here might be interested in it. Kinda "neat".


----------



## brandon6199

Cool. Just pre-ordered mine from Verizon. Says the delivery date will be 9/21.

No waiting in any lines for me!


----------



## drufause

So i could not get into the the store on the apple store website and my carrier was so bogged down at the account log on page I could not get in there either. So I used the apple ios store app on my ipad and guess what. It worked. Just waiting for shipping.


----------



## CaptainChaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> You have an excellent point. If only Apple's marketing used the term "evolution".


This! x10

The problem is that Apple have set this precedent where every change they make is described as being "revolutionary" and "ground breaking". It's only natural to have people get upset when something is neither of those things when you market it as such.


----------



## brandon6199

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *drufause*
> 
> So i could not get into the the store on the apple store website and my carrier was so bogged down at the account log on page I could not get in there either. So is used the apple ios store app on my ipad and guess what. It worked. Just waiting for shipping.


That reminds me...

My 2011 BMW 328i coupe has a nice little dock for my iPhone 4... guess I wont be able to play any of my music stored on my iPhone 5 now until BMW comes out with a new adapter.

That kinda sucks. But I wonder if the lightning adapter will work with no problems?


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brandon6199*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *drufause*
> 
> So i could not get into the the store on the apple store website and my carrier was so bogged down at the account log on page I could not get in there either. So is used the apple ios store app on my ipad and guess what. It worked. Just waiting for shipping.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That reminds me...
> 
> My 2011 BMW 328i coupe has a nice little dock for my iPhone 4... guess I wont be able to play any of my music stored on my iPhone 5 now until BMW comes out with a new adapter.
> 
> That kinda sucks. But I wonder if the lightning adapter will work with no problems?
Click to expand...

No one can say for sure. I reckon it'll work, but will it fit?


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *born2bwild*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> And that makes the iphone 5 the best thing out right?
> I never been more disappointed in my life with electronics.
> 
> 
> 
> What makes the iPhone 5 a great phone is its every fast CPU and GPU, excellent screen quality, fantastic camera, rich and well-optimized software with some of the most advanced mobile apps, as well as a very convenient size. It's a very well-rounded phone, and definitely able to stand its own ground, and it has its own impressive set of features.
> 
> Yes it was nothing revolutionary, but its competitors weren't either; the S3 was also just a bigger, faster version of the S2 with a better camera and more features.
> 
> Lastly, many people fail to understand that screen size is a preference, and the larger does not mean better. Personally, my optimal screen is somewhere between 4.0" and 4.5". Right now I have a 4.7" phone, and I find myself "regripping" it be able to use it with one hand on the go, and I'm 6' 0' with pretty large hands.
Click to expand...

This; although I will admit that larger phones are selling more than smaller ones.

Just to be different from the other iPhone 5 video:



(NSFW)


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> It's irrelevant. No other smartphone has a GPU even remotely as powerful as the SGX543MP4.


You said it was "ahead of the curve" but it uses tech that's already on the market. Sure, no other smartphone has that GPU (is it even 100% confirmed to have this GPU?) but it'd still be cheaper to get an S3, a PS Vita and a 64GB Micro SDHC card.









Ahead of the curve, as I said, would be having new stuff never seen before that sets the market demand

PS.

LOL



Look at the shape. The screen dominating the front like that. It's flat. Has a rectangle. Samsung should sue.

Just sayin'


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *brandon6199*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *drufause*
> 
> So i could not get into the the store on the apple store website and my carrier was so bogged down at the account log on page I could not get in there either. So is used the apple ios store app on my ipad and guess what. It worked. Just waiting for shipping.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That reminds me...
> 
> My 2011 BMW 328i coupe has a nice little dock for my iPhone 4... guess I wont be able to play any of my music stored on my iPhone 5 now until BMW comes out with a new adapter.
> 
> That kinda sucks. But I wonder if the lightning adapter will work with no problems?
Click to expand...

I replied to this earlier but actually it might not work -- have a look: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1440636
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> You said it was "ahead of the curve" but it uses tech that's already on the market. Sure, no other smartphone has that GPU (is it even 100% confirmed to have this GPU?) but it'd still be cheaper to get an S3, a PS Vita and a 64GB Micro SDHC card.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahead of the curve, as I said, would be having new stuff never seen before that sets the market demand


How could they -- or anyone for that matter -- use technology that isn't available yet?
Quote:


> PS.
> 
> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the shape. The screen dominating the front like that. It's flat. Has a rectangle. Samsung should sue.
> 
> Just sayin'


Same shape, but clearly different. Apple didn't patent a rectangle, even though you like to believe that


----------



## Mr Frosty

I'm still waiting for numbers to show that everyone buys and plays these amazing high end iOS games, iTunes top 50 is showing games like Angry Birds and Where's My Water.... Only a handful of decent 3D games in there..... Even the 4S couldn't bring higher quality mobile graphics because people just don't care about them on phones.

And as GPU performance goes up so does development time and cost, why make a mobile game and sell it for £5-6 when you can make the same game for PS Vita selling ot for £30 and get a better return for your time and effort.

And controls on phones just flat out suck for 99% of 3D games, hence why games like Temple Run, Angry Birds and Where's My Water are so successful.


----------



## Rubers

Erm, the PS Vita GPU is very much available and the A15 CPU's are pretty much in use via the S4 Krait CPU's.

EDIT:

What I meant was use tech that no-one is currently using.


----------



## hajile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Erm, the PS Vita GPU is very much available and the A15 CPU's are pretty much in use via the S4 Krait CPU's.
> EDIT:
> What I meant was use tech that no-one is currently using.


Krait is NOT A15. It is a custom design from Qualcomm. Basically, Qualcomm made Snapdragon around the same time as ARM made A8, but when ARM started work on A9, Qualcomm started work on Krait (and suffered through slow sales for a while since snapdragon can't compete with A9). When ARM started work on A15, Qualcomm had a healthy lead in development and release.

The current Krait is a around 6% slower in integer performance and probably a little slower in FPU performance too (a small performance bump is coming in a few months). Releasing a SOC takes time. I may be incorrect, but I think that the mobile revolution caught ARM by surprise. The A8 and A9 were already in the pipes, but the whole announcement to fabrication of A15 (all within the last couple of years) smells of knee-jerk reaction to the mobile market and probably explains why (for example) the final chip design is so large (proAPTIV has better performance in only half the die area). I think that it will take another design before they finally have the time to do things less hurriedly.

If Apple wanted to try something new, they would add a couple of cameras to the ipad and allow a kinect-like (or rather leap-motion like) interaction with the screen. They have access to MS's patents. Why not make it happen?


----------



## Rubers

I thought S4 was a customised A15 based on the A15 blueprints?


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> I thought S4 was a customised A15 based on the A15 blueprints?


It is....


----------



## Rubers

Yeah, I thought so:

http://www.mobileburn.com/18839/news/how-qualcomms-s4-krait-processors-take-on-nvidia-tegra-3-ti-omap5


----------



## hajile

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Yeah, I thought so:
> http://www.mobileburn.com/18839/news/how-qualcomms-s4-krait-processors-take-on-nvidia-tegra-3-ti-omap5


According to Anandtech's article on the Krait architecture, Krait is 11 stages long while A15 is 15 stages long. This definitively shows that Krait and A15 aren't the same architecture (or even similar as far as any 2 RISC architectures based on the same ISA (core, NEON, AES, etc) would be for the same performance level)


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hajile*
> 
> According to Anandtech's article on the Krait architecture, Krait is 11 stages long while A15 is 15 stages long. This definitively shows that Krait and A15 aren't the same architecture (or even similar as far as any 2 RISC architectures based on the same ISA (core, NEON, AES, etc) would be for the same performance level)


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hajile*
> 
> According to Anandtech's article on the Krait architecture, Krait is 11 stages long while A15 is 15 stages long. This definitively shows that Krait and A15 aren't the same architecture (or even similar as far as any 2 RISC architectures based on the same ISA (core, NEON, AES, etc) would be for the same performance level)


Quote:


> Like TI, Qualcomm is moving to an updated processor architecture for its latest family of Snapdragon S4 processors. While not being pure ARM Cortex-A15 compatible processors, Qualcomm does admit that the new Krait cores in the S4 line are A15-like, just as the Scorpion cores in the S3 were based on ARM Cortex-A9 type specs. Qualcomm licenses ARM's technology so that it can use it to build its own integrated chipset solutions that are compatible, but not exact copies of ARM's reference designs. This allows Qualcomm to do some things a bit differently.
> Read more at http://www.mobileburn.com/18839/news/how-qualcomms-s4-krait-processors-take-on-nvidia-tegra-3-ti-omap5#6mEmMiLoBoPwTQt6.99


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> I'm still waiting for numbers to show that everyone buys and plays these amazing high end iOS games, iTunes top 50 is showing games like Angry Birds and Where's My Water.... Only a handful of decent 3D games in there..... Even the 4S couldn't bring higher quality mobile graphics because people just don't care about them on phones.
> 
> And as GPU performance goes up so does development time and cost, why make a mobile game and sell it for £5-6 when you can make the same game for PS Vita selling ot for £30 and get a better return for your time and effort.
> 
> And controls on phones just flat out suck for 99% of 3D games, hence why games like Temple Run, Angry Birds and Where's My Water are so successful.


There's about eight high end games in the top fifty _at this moment in time_, and there's previously been others which have dropped down over time. The 4S did bring higher quality mobile graphics -- see Infinity Blade 2 or Sky Gamblers: Air Supremacy. Now the 5 is doubling graphics performance which means games can take it even further.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Erm, the PS Vita GPU is very much available and the A15 CPU's are pretty much in use via the S4 Krait CPU's.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> *What I meant was use tech that no-one is currently using*.


That isn't really possible for anyone. Apple can't use technology which isn't available to them yet. And nevertheless no other smartphone will have graphics this powerful -- a portable game console is an entirely different product.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> There's about eight high end games in the top fifty _at this moment in time_, and there's previously been others which have dropped down over time. The 4S did bring higher quality mobile graphics -- see Infinity Blade 2 or Sky Gamblers: Air Supremacy. Now the 5 is doubling graphics performance which means games can take it even further.
> That isn't really possible for anyone. Apple can't use technology which isn't available to them yet. And nevertheless no other smartphone will have graphics this powerful -- a portable game console is an entirely different product.


Bring NEW tech to the fray. You know what I mean.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Bring NEW tech to the fray. You know what I mean.


It's the best gpu in any smartphone. I know it kind of seems like apple asks to be held to a double standard because of the way they present their products, but I think every company tries to to present everything as revolutionary (rather than evolutionary).


----------



## wupah

I need some sort of google chrome add-on that blocks out any smartphone posts from this site


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> I'm still waiting for numbers to show that everyone buys and plays these amazing high end iOS games, iTunes top 50 is showing games like Angry Birds and Where's My Water.... Only a handful of decent 3D games in there..... Even the 4S couldn't bring higher quality mobile graphics because people just don't care about them on phones.
> 
> And as GPU performance goes up so does development time and cost, why make a mobile game and sell it for £5-6 when you can make the same game for PS Vita selling ot for £30 and get a better return for your time and effort.
> 
> And controls on phones just flat out suck for 99% of 3D games, hence why games like Temple Run, Angry Birds and Where's My Water are so successful.


As GPU performance goes up, software development costs actually go down given the same graphical quality, because it takes less effort to get the same result. The only reason development costs have increased overall lately is because developers and publishers seem to think that making a great game requires that everything look good.

3D controls for mobile games are terrible though, agreed.


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> *As GPU performance goes up, software development costs actually go down given the same graphical quality*, because it takes less effort to get the same result. The only reason development costs have increased overall lately is because developers and publishers seem to think that making a great game requires that everything look good.
> 3D controls for mobile games are terrible though, agreed.


But if quality doesn't go up then there's no point in these GPU's is there? The whole point of giving developers more power is to create better looking games with higher quality assets, that is what takes more time and costs more money to do.


----------



## bengal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> You have an excellent point. If only Apple's marketing used the term "evolution".


It has become a "cool" thing to bash Apple here at OCN for even the smallest of reasons. Samsung phones also don't change drastically in looks every year, but no one looks at that obviously. Oh the hipocrisy. Talking with an android fanboy is like talking with a stone really.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> *As GPU performance goes up, software development costs actually go down given the same graphical quality*, because it takes less effort to get the same result. The only reason development costs have increased overall lately is because developers and publishers seem to think that making a great game requires that everything look good.
> 3D controls for mobile games are terrible though, agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> But if quality doesn't go up then there's no point in these GPU's is there? The whole point of giving developers more power is to create better looking games with higher quality assets, that is what takes more time and costs more money to do.
Click to expand...

Weren't you the one arguing for more cores so that developers could use them?

The extra GPU power allows developers to utilize it if they want. There are some games out there that will do this. The reason it takes awhile is the same reason why PC graphics get held back by consoles, developers are designing games to work for the most possible customers, and right now for iOS apps that means their games will likely target the iPhone 4 as the minimum requirement. Before the iPhone 5 they were targeting the 3GS. As newer tech comes out it shifts the minimum hardware that they will be designing for. I promise you that extra power will get used.

I'm working on games right now, that aren't even close to the graphical quality of Infinity Blade, and we still have to cut all kinds of performance corners, lowering resolutions of textures, rendering particles on scaled down buffers, limiting number of particles on screen at any given time, no dynamic shadows, low poly models, animations with fewer bones than we'd like, etc. Fast forward 3 years from now when the iPhone 5 is the minimum hardware we support, and many of those restrictions are loosened or gone. It's a good thing, and developers will always want more, and always be able to utilize it.


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> *Weren't you the one arguing for more cores so that developers could use them?*
> The extra GPU power allows developers to utilize it if they want. There are some games out there that will do this. The reason it takes awhile is the same reason why PC graphics get held back by consoles, *developers are designing games to work for the most possible customers*, and right now for iOS apps that means their games will likely target the iPhone 4 as the minimum requirement. Before the iPhone 5 they were targeting the 3GS. As newer tech comes out it shifts the minimum hardware that they will be designing for. I promise you that extra power will get used.
> I'm working on games right now, that aren't even close to the graphical quality of Infinity Blade, and we still have to cut all kinds of performance corners, lowering resolutions of textures, rendering particles on scaled down buffers, limiting number of particles on screen at any given time, no dynamic shadows, low poly models, animations with fewer bones than we'd like, etc. Fast forward 3 years from now when the iPhone 5 is the minimum hardware we support, and many of those restrictions are loosened or gone. It's a good thing, and developers will always want more, and always be able to utilize it.


Nope, that wasn't me...

I already said that a few pages back...

They'll still taget the 3GS as most of the iPhones in the world are 3GS's, it'll still be some while yet before they truly take a leap.


----------



## CaptainChaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bengal*
> 
> It has become a "cool" thing to bash Apple here at OCN for even the smallest of reasons. Samsung phones also don't change drastically in looks every year, but no one looks at that obviously. Oh the hipocrisy. Talking with an android fanboy is like talking with a stone really.


you know you missed his point, right?


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> *Weren't you the one arguing for more cores so that developers could use them?*
> The extra GPU power allows developers to utilize it if they want. There are some games out there that will do this. The reason it takes awhile is the same reason why PC graphics get held back by consoles, *developers are designing games to work for the most possible customers*, and right now for iOS apps that means their games will likely target the iPhone 4 as the minimum requirement. Before the iPhone 5 they were targeting the 3GS. As newer tech comes out it shifts the minimum hardware that they will be designing for. I promise you that extra power will get used.
> I'm working on games right now, that aren't even close to the graphical quality of Infinity Blade, and we still have to cut all kinds of performance corners, lowering resolutions of textures, rendering particles on scaled down buffers, limiting number of particles on screen at any given time, no dynamic shadows, low poly models, animations with fewer bones than we'd like, etc. Fast forward 3 years from now when the iPhone 5 is the minimum hardware we support, and many of those restrictions are loosened or gone. It's a good thing, and developers will always want more, and always be able to utilize it.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope, that wasn't me...
> 
> I already said that a few pages back...
> 
> They'll still taget the 3GS as most of the iPhones in the world are 3GS's, it'll still be some while yet before they truly take a leap.
Click to expand...

I'd like to see some hard numbers to back that up. The iPhone 4 and 4S both outsold the 3GS if I remember right, and the 3GS is now 3 years old, I'm not sure how long it will truly be supported. The new XCode (4.5) removes support for the 3G, so 3GS is now the minimum that can even be developed for unless developers want to go out of their way, I'm sure the 3GS isn't far off.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *brandon6199*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *drufause*
> 
> So i could not get into the the store on the apple store website and my carrier was so bogged down at the account log on page I could not get in there either. So is used the apple ios store app on my ipad and guess what. It worked. Just waiting for shipping.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That reminds me...
> 
> My 2011 BMW 328i coupe has a nice little dock for my iPhone 4... guess I wont be able to play any of my music stored on my iPhone 5 now until BMW comes out with a new adapter.
> 
> That kinda sucks. But I wonder if the lightning adapter will work with no problems?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I replied to this earlier but actually it might not work -- have a look: http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1440636
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> You said it was "ahead of the curve" but it uses tech that's already on the market. Sure, no other smartphone has that GPU (is it even 100% confirmed to have this GPU?) but it'd still be cheaper to get an S3, a PS Vita and a 64GB Micro SDHC card.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahead of the curve, as I said, would be having new stuff never seen before that sets the market demand
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> How could they -- or anyone for that matter -- use technology that isn't available yet?
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> PS.
> 
> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the shape. The screen dominating the front like that. It's flat. Has a rectangle. Samsung should sue.
> 
> Just sayin'
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same shape, but clearly different. Apple didn't patent a rectangle, even though you like to believe that
Click to expand...

I was expect., tbh.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bengal*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> You have an excellent point. If only Apple's marketing used the term "evolution".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has become a "cool" thing to bash Apple here at OCN for even the smallest of reasons. Samsung phones also don't change drastically in looks every year, but no one looks at that obviously. Oh the hipocrisy. Talking with an android fanboy is like talking with a stone really.
Click to expand...

Wow, how ignorant can people be.


----------



## Doomtomb

Everyone who had a 3GS has already upgraded or is eligible for an upgrade. Same with people that bought an iPhone 4.


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> I'd like to see some hard numbers to back that up. The iPhone 4 and 4S both outsold the 3GS if I remember right, and the 3GS is now 3 years old, I'm not sure how long it will truly be supported. The new XCode (4.5) removes support for the 3G, so 3GS is now the minimum that can even be developed for unless developers want to go out of their way, I'm sure the 3GS isn't far off.


The 3GS is 3 years old, it's had 3 years worth of sales, it's also still selling very very as reported here

The 3GS is so cheap that people can't resist buying it so they can be a apart of the iPhone bandwagon.

Granted it'll start to slow down now with the new lower price of the iPhone 4 but there's still an awful lot of 3GS phones out there, too many for any developer to ignore.


----------



## Ocnewb

By the way, here is the the thinnest phone in the world, not the iPhone 5 like they claimed to be. It was released almost a year ago. It is 1mm thinner than the IP5 and 7gram lighter with a 4" screen. I just want to say that Phil Schiller was wrong when claiming that IP5 is the thinnest in the world.



http://www.gsmarena.com/fujitsu_arrows_f07d_is_now_the_worlds_thinnest_smartphone-news-3418.php


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bengal*
> 
> It has become a "cool" thing to bash Apple here at OCN for even the smallest of reasons. Samsung phones also don't change drastically in looks every year, but no one looks at that obviously. *Oh the hipocrisy. Talking with an android fanboy is like talking with a stone really.*


A form of psychological projection, eh? What a white knight you are!

I don't appreciate the insinuation that I am a fanboy. I do too much research to be a fanboy.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CaptainChaos*
> 
> you know you missed his point, right?


Rocket ship over the head *whoosh*








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> I was expect., tbh.
> Wow, how ignorant can people be.


I wasn't that surprised either. Samsung wont sue, because the shape is patented by apple, even though various people have proved that the patents in question were for rounded rectangles and edge to edge glass w/a bezel. Prior art exsists, go figure







. The altered the design slightly every year, and the similarities just pop up. I think they stopped producing the P3 in 2010(2011 maybe? started in 2007) and it looks just like the lumina iThingy nano. But of course there are differences! This was evidence that should of been used in the trial to show the evolution of samsung products, and how they all tied into one another. But that would mean that there was competent lawyers, or unbiased judges/jurors.

*takes off conspiracy hat*
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Ocnewb*
> 
> By the way, here is the the thinnest phone in the world, not the iPhone 5 like they claimed to be. It was released almost a year ago. It is 1mm thinner than the IP5 and 7gram lighter with a 4" sreen.
> http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1047528/
> 
> 
> Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.gsmarena.com/fujitsu_arrows_f07d_is_now_the_worlds_thinnest_smartphone-news-3418.php


It didn't come out in america, therefore it didn't count, and you know the US is the only country in the world right??


----------



## ryboto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Same shape, but clearly different. Apple didn't patent a rectangle, even though you like to believe that


Wow...what a blind fanboy. Those two designs are incredibly similar, meanwhile you'll defend Apple to the grave for inventing rounded edged rectangles with large screens.


----------



## krz94

and i thought this was the thinnest:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1285993/tb-oppo-finder-is-the-world-s-thinnest-smartphone


----------



## cubanresourceful

So, I was wondering. If one preorders now, will their card be charged immediately or when it ships?


----------



## ryboto

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krz94*
> 
> and i thought this was the thinnest:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1285993/tb-oppo-finder-is-the-world-s-thinnest-smartphone


AND it has a dual core A15 processor!


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ryboto*
> 
> AND it has a dual core A15 processor!












There goes steelbom's "ahead of the curve" argument!


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ryboto*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *krz94*
> 
> and i thought this was the thinnest:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1285993/tb-oppo-finder-is-the-world-s-thinnest-smartphone
> 
> 
> 
> AND it has a dual core A15 processor!
Click to expand...

I







and


----------



## ImmortalKenny

There's a few different SoC configurations for the A15, so they're not all the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cortex-A15_MPCore


----------



## perfectblade

gpu is more important to me than having the biggest processor. i mean, the only thing phones really need that power is for games anyway.

until we get true multitasking on phones, it's not like you'll need that much power (and having more ram is probably more important anyway). as it stands, i can't even listen to something on youtube and browse the web at the same time. granted, that's all i really want multitasking for, and it may seem kind of of silly, but it impacts my life more than having apps launch a half a second faster


----------



## cubanresourceful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *krz94*
> 
> and i thought this was the thinnest:
> http://www.overclock.net/t/1285993/tb-oppo-finder-is-the-world-s-thinnest-smartphone


That's a nice looking phone too...why was it never released here? Fujitsu's toughbooks and scanners are pretty good.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> There's a few different SoC configurations for the A15, so they're not all the same.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cortex-A15_MPCore


SoC... not CPU.

They're all dual cores in that list AFAIK.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> gpu is more important to me than having the biggest processor. i mean, the only thing phones really need that power is for games anyway.
> until we get true multitasking on phones, it's not like you'll need that much power (and having more ram is probably more important anyway). as it stands, i can't even listen to something on youtube and browse the web at the same time. granted, that's all i really want multitasking for, and it may seem kind of of silly, but it impacts my life more than having apps launch a half a second faster


Android already has proper multitasking







And YouTube is a video website, not a music player







If you want to listen to the music videos people put up, download the video first and play it back using a music player. The fact you "can't" play YouTube in the background is by design. It's actually totally possible to do this, Google just don't on the YouTube app because that's not how it's supposed to be used. How can you "watch" a video if it's in the background?


----------



## chip94

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> gpu is more important to me than having the biggest processor. i mean, the only thing phones really need that power is for games anyway.
> until we get true multitasking on phones, it's not like you'll need that much power (and having more ram is probably more important anyway). as it stands, i can't even listen to something on youtube and browse the web at the same time. granted, that's all i really want multitasking for, and it may seem kind of of silly, but it impacts my life more than having apps launch a half a second faster


You can do that.


----------



## MGX1016

The S3 is a really good match against the iPhone

A lot of the blind sheep bought the iPhone5 and idk if I want to be one of them.

I am upgrading this week... I like having a choice!


----------



## cubanresourceful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Android already has proper multitasking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And YouTube is a video website, not a music player
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to listen to the music videos people put up, download the video first and play it back using a music player. The fact you "can't" play YouTube in the background is by design. It's actually totally possible to do this, Google just don't on the YouTube app because that's not how it's supposed to be used. How can you "watch" a video if it's in the background?


Actually, you can do what he said. Also, watch two youtube videos at the same time as well. Can't remember the software however....


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cubanresourceful*
> 
> Actually, you can do what he said. Also, watch two youtube videos at the same time as well. Can't remember the software however....


Yes, but not with the stock YouTube app and yeah, exactly, multitasking is entirely possible these days


----------



## jameschisholm

S3 has pop-up video player so you can watch a video and navigate around the phone doing other things and just move the pop-up player around.


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jameschisholm*
> 
> S3 has pop-up video player so you can watch a video and navigate around the phone doing other things and just move the pop-up player around.


Never done that on my S3, how do you do that?


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> Never done that on my S3, how do you do that?


Icon in the bottom right


----------



## Foolsmasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Android already has proper multitasking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And YouTube is a video website, not a music player
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to listen to the music videos people put up, download the video first and play it back using a music player. The fact you "can't" play YouTube in the background is by design. It's actually totally possible to do this, Google just don't on the YouTube app because that's not how it's supposed to be used. How can you "watch" a video if it's in the background?


Funny, I watch/listen to my TV while I'm doing something else all the time. Guess I've been using it wrong all these years! Could you imagine your AV receiver cutting out if you wanted TV audio playing while your using a different video input?

Seriously annoying YouTube, I've always hated that on my iPhone.


----------



## Nocturin

For those saying that apple didn't patent the rounded rectangle:
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tsumi*
> 
> Yes I read the links, and looked through all of it.
> This is the definition of ornamental design straight from the US Patent Office:
> Basically, ornamental design can refer to an entire device, or just parts of it. The way to tell is that solid lines designate what is being patented, and broken up lines designate what is not.
> So, based on the fact that the solid lines represent what is being patented, let's look at 087.
> Figures 1-8 patent the rectangle shape with the rounded corners, with the circular button in the middle at the bottom of the phone.
> 
> Figures 9-16 patent the rectangle shape with rounded corners, and the screen making up almost all of the front.
> 
> Figures 17-24 patent the rectangle shape with rounded corners, and the horizontal speaker on top in the oval shape.
> 
> Figures 25-32 patent the rectangle shape with the rounded corners, screen, and circular button.
> 
> Figures 33-40 patent the rectangle shape with the rounded corners, speaker, and circular button.
> 
> Figures 41-48 patent the rectangle shape with the rounded corners, screen, and speaker.
> 
> D677- as I said patents the black front, but also the screen taking up the entire front of the device and the horizontal speaker on top.
> 305- you seem to be right here in that it patents the icons as well.
> So for almost every touchscreen phone, they would be violating 087 based on figures 9-16. That's just ridiculous.
> You also must not have heard of sciphones. My relatives got a sciphone. From a distance, it looks pretty much identical to an iphone. Disregarding different physical dimensions (which these patents don't cover anyways), the layout and icons are pretty much the same, much more similar than any Android phone. Why isn't Apple going after these blatant Chinese knockoffs?


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Foolsmasher*
> 
> Funny, I watch/listen to my TV while I'm doing something else all the time. Guess I've been using it wrong all these years! Could you imagine your AV receiver cutting out if you wanted TV audio playing while your using a different video input?
> Seriously annoying YouTube, I've always hated that on my iPhone.


Makes sense fpor everything but music videos, to be honest.


----------



## VaiFanatic

In terms of appearance, the iPhone4S is the most attractive phone to me. I don't see why people always insist on constant external design changes.

Just like vehicles, I'd much rather have a revival of older body styles, versus the new styles that are being pumped out of factories today, that's why I drive a W126 S-Class versus what's available today from Mercedes. You can easily upgrade the old body, which is stylish, rugged, and elegant, with brand new internals (M120 6.0L V12 anyone?) so if you're so concerned about keeping up with a Porsche, you can.

That said, the internal specs of the iPhone 5 do leave more to be desired.

However, I wasn't surprised at the uproar when the 4S came out and it looked nothing different from the 4. No one cared about what was on the inside, just what was on the outside, and beauty is only skin deep. This applies to hardware as well.


----------



## grizzlyblunting

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaiFanatic*
> 
> that's why I drive a W126 S-Class versus what's available today from Mercedes.


lol riigghhtt... you drive a POS cause thats what you prefer... what does that say about you?


----------



## Oupavoc

I just taught about sharing this, it made me laugh and the song is actually catchy lol


----------



## VaiFanatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> lol riigghhtt... you drive a POS cause thats what you prefer... what does that say about you?


A POS? Most of these cars last a lot longer than what's produced today. Also, mine is not a diesel beater that you see driving around with terrible vegetable oil conversions. It's a European spec, imported from Lebanon, which gives it quite the interesting history.

Is the '97 Wrangler I drive, that only has 39,000 miles on it a POS because of the release of the JK chassis? I think not. The JKs are absolutely terrible.

The fact that you even make such a comment, what does that say about you?


----------



## cubanresourceful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaiFanatic*
> 
> In terms of appearance, the iPhone4S is the most attractive phone to me. I don't see why people always insist on constant external design changes.
> Just like vehicles, I'd much rather have a revival of older body styles, versus the new styles that are being pumped out of factories today, that's why I drive a W126 S-Class versus what's available today from Mercedes. You can easily upgrade the old body, which is stylish, rugged, and elegant, with brand new internals (M120 6.0L V12 anyone?) so if you're so concerned about keeping up with a Porsche, you can.
> That said, the internal specs of the iPhone 5 do leave more to be desired.
> However, I wasn't surprised at the uproar when the 4S came out and it looked nothing different from the 4. No one cared about what was on the inside, just what was on the outside, and beauty is only skin deep. This applies to hardware as well.


I like the W202 C280 better than the current Mercedes...but that's just me.


----------



## VaiFanatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cubanresourceful*
> 
> I like the W202 C280 better than the current Mercedes...but that's just me.


Find a c36. Great fun.


----------



## MGX1016

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaiFanatic*
> 
> A POS? Most of these cars last a lot longer than what's produced today. Also, mine is not a diesel beater that you see driving around with terrible vegetable oil conversions. It's a European spec, imported from Lebanon, which gives it quite the interesting history.
> Is the '97 Wrangler I drive, that only has 39,000 miles on it a POS because of the release of the JK chassis? I think not. The JKs are absolutely terrible.
> The fact that you even make such a comment, what does that say about you?


The W126 S-Class is classy, but those new designs are very sleek. You can't honestly say that bulk is sexier than sleek.

I AGREE, that the new crap that manufacturing puts out today is totally weak. I deal with photo machines and the older series from 2000-2003 was made of metal chasis. It's extremely sturdy and heavy. Its a real monster at survival. The new stuff released 2003-2006 is mostly plastic outside and not as strong, but its sleek and lightweight.

It's definitely an interesting trade-off

I think the general consensus I've read on the 8 pages (I have 100 posts per page) is that the iPhone 5 offers nothing new really and the S3 is in almost every way a better phone.
I think I'm going to get an iPhone 5 because I am very used to the UI, I have invested a lot in tthe app store and I want the bigger display. I love my backups and iCloud. I have SMS history from 4 years ago. I think this will be my last iPhone which makes me sad, but I will look forward to the future.

My second phone is a BB curve due to its excellent reception (even when my 4S has no bars BB usually carries a signal) I can't wait to get a new BB curve, the one I have now is dieing slowly.

EDIT: ALSO to the person who imported your diesel from Lebanon is that imported into the USA? How do you pass emissions test.....?


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Foolsmasher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Android already has proper multitasking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And YouTube is a video website, not a music player
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to listen to the music videos people put up, download the video first and play it back using a music player. The fact you "can't" play YouTube in the background is by design. It's actually totally possible to do this, Google just don't on the YouTube app because that's not how it's supposed to be used. How can you "watch" a video if it's in the background?
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, I watch/listen to my TV while I'm doing something else all the time. Guess I've been using it wrong all these years! Could you imagine your AV receiver cutting out if you wanted TV audio playing while your using a different video input?
> 
> Seriously annoying YouTube, I've always hated that on my iPhone.
Click to expand...

Don't blame YouTube, Apple made the app for the iPhone, not Google.


----------



## cubanresourceful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaiFanatic*
> 
> Find a c36. Great fun.


It's like a 280 but...faster.... Why didn't I know of the C36's existence?







Would be a fun car to drive, loved driving the 280.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *hajile*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Yeah, I thought so:
> http://www.mobileburn.com/18839/news/how-qualcomms-s4-krait-processors-take-on-nvidia-tegra-3-ti-omap5
> 
> 
> 
> According to Anandtech's article on the Krait architecture, Krait is 11 stages long while A15 is 15 stages long. This definitively shows that Krait and A15 aren't the same architecture (or even similar as far as any 2 RISC architectures based on the same ISA (core, NEON, AES, etc) would be for the same performance level)
Click to expand...

According to Anandtech both of them have an advantages over each other which may or may not cancel out each other -- performance should be quite similar regardless.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Bring NEW tech to the fray. You know what I mean.


Not really actually. Apple like pretty much everyone else is just licensing their processors from ARM, and their GPUs from someone else. It's not really possible for them to bring out something new.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> I was expect., tbh.


What?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> I wasn't that surprised either. Samsung wont sue, because the shape is patented by apple, even though various people have proved that the patents in question were for rounded rectangles and edge to edge glass w/a bezel. Prior art exsists, go figure
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> . The altered the design slightly every year, and the similarities just pop up. I think they stopped producing the P3 in 2010(2011 maybe? started in 2007) and it looks just like the lumina iThingy nano. But of course there are differences! This was evidence that should of been used in the trial to show the evolution of samsung products, and how they all tied into one another. But that would mean that there was competent lawyers, or unbiased judges/jurors.
> 
> *takes off conspiracy hat*


The difference being that the Galaxy S wasn't an evolution of their existing smartphones (or even prototypes), it looked more like an evolution of the iPhone -- at the front.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ryboto*
> 
> Wow...what a blind fanboy. Those two designs are incredibly similar,


I'm neither blind nor a fanboy. They're noticeably different. You can easily tell them apart.
Quote:


> meanwhile you'll defend Apple to the grave for inventing rounded edged rectangles with large screens.


That's ridiculous. I wouldn't defend them to the grave for anything, and no I don't defend them for inventing rounded edged rectangles with large screens. If the Galaxy S or S2 didn't have that big silver border around the front just like the iPhone then they'd probably be completely off the hook.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *ryboto*
> 
> AND it has a dual core A15 processor!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There goes steelbom's "ahead of the curve" argument!
Click to expand...

As I said earlier it may not actually end up being a dual-core A15. Apple never said that specifically, though it looks like that's what it is. I've been arguing mostly that the graphics are why the iPhone 5 are ahead of the curve. Apple may be one of the first to market with a dual-core A15, but there's still other devices that will be similarly or more powerful, but not with the GPU.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Android already has proper multitasking
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And YouTube is a video website, not a music player
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to listen to the music videos people put up, download the video first and play it back using a music player. The fact you "can't" play YouTube in the background is by design. It's actually totally possible to do this, Google just don't on the YouTube app because that's not how it's supposed to be used. How can you "watch" a video if it's in the background?


What can you do on an Android that you can't do on iOS? We can download and upload in the background, while listening to music, and playing a game. What else can be done in the background on Android?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> For those saying that apple didn't patent the rounded rectangle:
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Tsumi*
> 
> Yes I read the links, and looked through all of it.
> This is the definition of ornamental design straight from the US Patent Office:
> Basically, ornamental design can refer to an entire device, or just parts of it. The way to tell is that solid lines designate what is being patented, and broken up lines designate what is not.
> So, based on the fact that the solid lines represent what is being patented, let's look at 087.
> Figures 1-8 patent the rectangle shape with the rounded corners, with the circular button in the middle at the bottom of the phone.
> 
> Figures 9-16 patent the rectangle shape with rounded corners, and the screen making up almost all of the front.
> 
> Figures 17-24 patent the rectangle shape with rounded corners, and the horizontal speaker on top in the oval shape.
> 
> Figures 25-32 patent the rectangle shape with the rounded corners, screen, and circular button.
> 
> Figures 33-40 patent the rectangle shape with the rounded corners, speaker, and circular button.
> 
> Figures 41-48 patent the rectangle shape with the rounded corners, screen, and speaker.
> 
> D677- as I said patents the black front, but also the screen taking up the entire front of the device and the horizontal speaker on top.
> 305- you seem to be right here in that it patents the icons as well.
> So for almost every touchscreen phone, they would be violating 087 based on figures 9-16. That's just ridiculous.
> You also must not have heard of sciphones. My relatives got a sciphone. From a distance, it looks pretty much identical to an iphone. Disregarding different physical dimensions (which these patents don't cover anyways), the layout and icons are pretty much the same, much more similar than any Android phone. Why isn't Apple going after these blatant Chinese knockoffs?
Click to expand...

Notice the big borders around the iPhone, those are a key part of the design. If a smartphone lacks that on the front, then it's pretty much off the hook.


----------



## VaiFanatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MGX1016*
> 
> The W126 S-Class is classy, but those new designs are very sleek. You can't honestly say that bulk is sexier than sleek.
> I AGREE, that the new crap that manufacturing puts out today is totally weak. I deal with photo machines and the older series from 2000-2003 was made of metal chasis. It's extremely sturdy and heavy. Its a real monster at survival. The new stuff released 2003-2006 is mostly plastic outside and not as strong, but its sleek and lightweight.
> It's definitely an interesting trade-off
> I think the general consensus I've read on the 8 pages (I have 100 posts per page) is that the iPhone 5 offers nothing new really and the S3 is in almost every way a better phone.
> I think I'm going to get an iPhone 5 because I am very used to the UI, I have invested a lot in tthe app store and I want the bigger display. I love my backups and iCloud. I have SMS history from 4 years ago. I think this will be my last iPhone which makes me sad, but I will look forward to the future.
> My second phone is a BB curve due to its excellent reception (even when my 4S has no bars BB usually carries a signal) I can't wait to get a new BB curve, the one I have now is dieing slowly.
> EDIT: ALSO to the person who imported your diesel from Lebanon is that imported into the USA? How do you pass emissions test.....?


It's a gasser







500SE.

I just see it as a timeless design. I'm not concerned about sex-appeal, or sleekness. In any application, you can't go wrong with picking someone up in a W126. If want sleek, get a W126 SEC







or an R129 like the SL73 AMG









Eventually, I'm going to get the upholstery redone in white leather, and go for a two-town white on black interior.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cubanresourceful*
> 
> It's like a 280 but...faster.... Why didn't I know of the C36's existence?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Would be a fun car to drive, loved driving the 280.


There are a few around. I personally prefer a W124 500E/E500, but that's me!


----------



## Blackops_2

Lmao i couldn't resist this cracks me up


----------



## VaiFanatic

Just found this video, while it's a complete mock-up of a would-be iPhone 5, something like this is what I would have hoped for. (Minus the hydrogen fuel cell powersource, since that's extremely farfetched).


----------



## cubanresourceful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaiFanatic*
> 
> It's a gasser
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 500SE.
> I just see it as a timeless design. I'm not concerned about sex-appeal, or sleekness. In any application, you can't go wrong with picking someone up in a W126. If want sleek, get a W126 SEC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or an R129 like the SL73 AMG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Eventually, I'm going to get the upholstery redone in white leather, and go for a two-town white on black interior.
> There are a few around. I personally prefer a W124 500E/E500, but that's me!


I like the boxier Mercedes design than the new curvy designs. I'm also not a fan of their double circle front lights.









BUT I DIGRESS. ----> Anybody already preorder? If so, why? What excited you?


----------



## VaiFanatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cubanresourceful*
> 
> I like the boxier Mercedes design than the new curvy designs. I'm also not a fan of their double circle front lights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BUT I DIGRESS. ----> Anybody already preorder? If so, why? What excited you?


It's just something that'll look good even after another 20 years have gone by. They truly are timeless. Diesel W123s last for hundreds of thousands of miles if cared for.

As for the phone, I'm still a bit on edge in terms of how I really feel about it. Wanting to develop apps for these devices, it only makes sense I get this newest model for the latest hardware, but is it worth another two-year contract? I really don't know.


----------



## cubanresourceful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaiFanatic*
> 
> It's just something that'll look good even after another 20 years have gone by. They truly are timeless. Diesel W123s last for hundreds of thousands of miles if cared for.
> As for the phone, I'm still a bit on edge in terms of how I really feel about it. Wanting to develop apps for these devices, it only makes sense I get this newest model for the latest hardware, but is it worth another two-year contract? I really don't know.


Are you planning on switching or getting new phone? I hate being on contract too but since there's really no incentive to not be on one except for switching carrier than...









I was going to wait for the Lumia 920, but preordered this one instead. It's honestly the look the sold me. Also, I want to jump start app development.







Now to find someone who'll buy my GNex.









OT: TBH, if any car is taken care of, it should last thousands of miles, unfortunetely today's youth do not even know what their temp gauge means.







You wouldn't be surprised how many of my friend's car overheat and turn off and I yell at them because of the possibility of blown head gasket lol.

About the W123, love the "old" look (hence boxy). It's my fav look of any car (makes me wish I had an '80s camaro lol). I've never driven a diesel car before, do you prefer diesel over gas?


----------



## VaiFanatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cubanresourceful*
> 
> Are you planning on switching or getting new phone? I hate being on contract too but since there's really no incentive to not be on one except for switching carrier than...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was going to wait for the Lumia 920, but preordered this one instead. It's honestly the look the sold me. Also, I want to jump start app development.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now to find someone who'll buy my GNex.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OT: TBH, if any car is taken care of, it should last thousands of miles, unfortunetely today's youth do not even know what their temp gauge means.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You wouldn't be surprised how many of my friend's car overheat and turn off and I yell at them because of the possibility of blown head gasket lol.
> About the W123, love the "old" look (hence boxy). It's my fav look of any car (makes me wish I had an '80s camaro lol). I've never driven a diesel car before, do you prefer diesel over gas?


I'm not honestly sure yet. I love the iPhone, especially once jailbroken. My carrier is fine, I just want a lower price lol.

Yeah, I see people ruin perfectly good cars *sigh*

Diesels are great, but unless they've got a turbo, their so slow on acceleration. The MPG makes a significant difference, and contrary to popular belief, diesel is cleaner than gasoline (considering diesel also means anything that can power a diesel motor, that means you can burn just about anything, especially clean vegetable oils, but that has to be done properly).

All the cars I currently have are gassers, but even my massive 5.0L in the 500SE still pulls 22mpg because of how I drive it.


----------



## Blackops_2

Unless there are any more smartphones with the 4" form factor that aren't old and Cspire gets them. I'll be going the Iphone 5 rout. Though i don't use many apps i'll still be losing my ballistic app i have on my android, which is bothersome because it's pricey. I guess i'm behind times still rocking a Galaxy S, it's showing it's age. The Iphone 5 should be a more than suitable upgrade.

Anyone link to whether the A6 was duel or quad?


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*
> 
> Unless there are any more smartphones with the 4" form factor that aren't old and Cspire gets them. I'll be going the Iphone 5 rout. Though i don't use many apps i'll still be losing my ballistic app i have on my android, which is bothersome because it's pricey. I guess i'm behind times still rocking a Galaxy S, it's showing it's age. The Iphone 5 should be a more than suitable upgrade.
> 
> Anyone link to whether the A6 was duel or quad?


Apple only said that it was twice as fast as the processor in the A5. Link: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6279/apples-iphone-5-uses-a6-soc-arm-cortex-a15s-inside

Anandtech thinks it's a dual-core A15. If it was a quad-core they would have surely said so. It's either a dual-core A15 at roughly 1.2GHz, or a dual-core A9 at 1.6GHz or so.


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackops_2*
> 
> Unless there are any more smartphones with the 4" form factor that aren't old and Cspire gets them. I'll be going the Iphone 5 rout. Though i don't use many apps i'll still be losing my ballistic app i have on my android, which is bothersome because it's pricey. I guess i'm behind times still rocking a Galaxy S, it's showing it's age. The Iphone 5 should be a more than suitable upgrade.
> Anyone link to whether the A6 was duel or quad?


There's quite a few, Sony do a few 4" phones with full 1280x1080 display.

Intels Android powered phone runs a 4" screen and is quite frankly, the best CPU in any mobile phone, it's a single core Atom with HT and it smacks dual cores all over the place and bangs on the doors of quad cores, can't wait for the dual core version.

Tbh I've used 4", 4.3" and 4.8" android phones and I do think that 4.8" is a it on the big side but I also think that 4" now is too small, 4.3" is the best screen size for a phone, you get excellent viewing and the screen can be put into tiny chassis.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> What can you do on an Android that you can't do on iOS? We can download and upload in the background, while listening to music, and playing a game. What else can be done in the background on Android?


Run a full Linux ARMEL distro in the background? Utilise four cores? Run widgets?


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> What can you do on an Android that you can't do on iOS? We can download and upload in the background, while listening to music, and playing a game. What else can be done in the background on Android?
> 
> 
> 
> Run a full Linux ARMEL distro in the background? Utilise four cores? Run widgets?
Click to expand...

ARMEL?


----------



## noobhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Run widgets?


Wow widgets. That's pretty badass.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> ARMEL?


http://www.debian.org/ports/arm/

I did a video of it here:




It's significantly faster now they implemented a swap file, also, now supports two cores. The devs have started a phone fund to get their hands on a quad and then they'll work on that. Not as tight as the official Ubuntu project Canonical are working on, but still good.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *noobhell*
> 
> Wow widgets. That's pretty badass.


I'm sure they're probably going to be the next revolutionary thing in the iOS update.


----------



## 3930K

Ah, looks awesome.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> It's irrelevant. No other smartphone has a GPU even remotely as powerful as the SGX543MP4.
> 
> 
> 
> You said it was "ahead of the curve" but it uses tech that's already on the market. Sure, no other smartphone has that GPU (is it even 100% confirmed to have this GPU?) but it'd still be cheaper to get an S3, a PS Vita and a 64GB Micro SDHC card.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahead of the curve, as I said, would be having new stuff never seen before that sets the market demand
Click to expand...

Except the Vita won't have the same games as the iPhone (I'd actually argue apart from a handful, it'd be worse considering the amount of emulators any modern phone has) and a PS Vita + SGS3 take up a lot more room than a single iPhone 5, stop clutching at straws and please admit Apple have released a decent product, it's the first A15 based phone too and is definitely ahead of the curve, saying it's not is like arguing that those laptops with two screens aren't innovative at all because they just use off the shelf parts.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> I thought S4 was a customised A15 based on the A15 blueprints?


Yeah, iirc it was _slightly_ slower though.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bengal*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> You have an excellent point. If only Apple's marketing used the term "evolution".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It has become a "cool" thing to bash Apple here at OCN for even the smallest of reasons. Samsung phones also don't change drastically in looks every year, but no one looks at that obviously. Oh the hipocrisy. Talking with an android fanboy is like talking with a stone really.
Click to expand...

It's bad on both sides, you have 3-4 posters who are actually unbiased, 1-2 Apple fanboys and a crowd of Android fanboys. (And the obligatory WP fanboy)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *bengal*
> 
> It has become a "cool" thing to bash Apple here at OCN for even the smallest of reasons. Samsung phones also don't change drastically in looks every year, but no one looks at that obviously. *Oh the hipocrisy. Talking with an android fanboy is like talking with a stone really.*
> 
> 
> 
> A form of psychological projection, eh? What a white knight you are!
> 
> I don't appreciate the insinuation that I am a fanboy. I do too much research to be a fanboy.
Click to expand...

All the research in the world doesn't prevent an already biased mind.

For the record, I do believe that Apple's patents shouldn't be valid and I won't be buying the iPhone 5 (4" screen is way too small) but I figured I'd point this out.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ImmortalKenny*
> 
> There's a few different SoC configurations for the A15, so they're not all the same.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cortex-A15_MPCore


This, it's not like an i7; think of it more as Intel making the i7 then selling the design to Samsung, AMD, IBM, etc.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> What can you do on an Android that you can't do on iOS? We can download and upload in the background, while listening to music, and playing a game. What else can be done in the background on Android?
> 
> 
> 
> Run a full Linux ARMEL distro in the background? Utilise four cores? Run widgets?
Click to expand...

Why would I run a full Linux distro on a _phone_? I have more than enough spare computer hardware over 10x faster to do that.

Only the most hardcore Android users would even come close to actually needing 4 cores in a phone, easily 99.9% will never notice the difference between a 1.2Ghz quad and a 1.2Ghz dual.

Widgets? A real argument against iOS.


----------



## 3930K

I try not to be too biased but I admit I have a small bias towards Android.

It's not confirmed to have A15s, and if it does, it isn't the first one. Look at the Oppo finder.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> Except the Vita won't have the same games as the iPhone (I'd actually argue apart from a handful, it'd be worse considering the amount of emulators any modern phone has) and a PS Vita + SGS3 take up a lot more room than a single iPhone 5, stop clutching at straws and please admit Apple have released a decent product, it's the first A15 based phone too and is definitely ahead of the curve, saying it's not is like arguing that those laptops with two screens aren't innovative at all because they just use off the shelf parts.
> Yeah, iirc it was _slightly_ slower though.
> It's bad on both sides, you have 3-4 posters who are actually unbiased, 1-2 Apple fanboys and a crowd of Android fanboys. (And the obligatory WP fanboy)
> All the research in the world doesn't prevent an already biased mind.
> For the record, I do believe that Apple's patents shouldn't be valid and I won't be buying the iPhone 5 (4" screen is way too small) but I figured I'd point this out.
> This, it's not like an i7; think of it more as Intel making the i7 then selling the design to Samsung, AMD, IBM, etc.
> Why would I run a full Linux distro on a _phone_? I have more than enough spare computer hardware over 10x faster to do that.
> Only the most hardcore Android users would even come close to actually needing 4 cores in a phone, easily 99.9% will never notice the difference between a 1.2Ghz quad and a 1.2Ghz dual.
> Widgets? A real argument against iOS.


Lol, the hardware is still rumour and unconfirmed. No, Apple haven't released a good phone, they're catching up to existing features, and there's supposedly a Chinese phone out with an A15 already. I'd rather have a PS Vita.

There is a major difference between a dual and a quad and I'm starting to get exasperated arguing about it. If you don't see it then fair enough to you. I can quantify it. It's not about "needing it" it's about how the systme uses it and how it affects the phone in the long rung. Better battery life and a more fluid Android. Also, Jelly Bean. The users running it in XDA are reporting major boners from it, lol.

Also, why not run a Linux distro off your phone? Once it matures, it's going to be quite handy for the same reasons Canonical are pushing it.

Oh and don't crowd me in with Android fanboys. Yeah, I prefer Android over iOS and WP, but I actually like WP and the devices running it. I don't like iOS and I don't like Apple. Call me an Apple hater because I'm happy with that.


----------



## whitingnick

Well, my wife and I are due for an upgrade, and I was really willing to give the iPhone 5 a chance, but when I saw it's lazy design I changed my mind. I was really hoping for a look more innovative and refreshing, something like a cross between the S3 and iPhone, but this stretched-out version is just ugly, boring, and lacks creativity imop. Now it's between the Nokia Lumia 920 and the S3.

Dangit Apple, i was really hoping for something cool! I can't take this phone seriously!


----------



## macro6

innovative and refreshing... so you're considering s3

/mindblown


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> Except the Vita won't have the same games as the iPhone (I'd actually argue apart from a handful, it'd be worse considering the amount of emulators any modern phone has) and a PS Vita + SGS3 take up a lot more room than a single iPhone 5, stop clutching at straws and please admit *Apple have released a decent product*, it's the first A15 based phone too and is definitely ahead of the curve, saying it's not is like arguing that those laptops with two screens aren't innovative at all because they just use off the shelf parts.


Ahh... No they haven't.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *macro6*
> 
> innovative and refreshing... so you're considering s3
> 
> /mindblown


Not sure if serious...


----------



## noobhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> Except the Vita won't have the same games as the iPhone (I'd actually argue apart from a handful, it'd be worse considering the amount of emulators any modern phone has) and a PS Vita + SGS3 take up a lot more room than a single iPhone 5, stop clutching at straws and please admit Apple have released a decent product, it's the first A15 based phone too and is definitely ahead of the curve, saying it's not is like arguing that those laptops with two screens aren't innovative at all because they just use off the shelf parts.


Who wants to have those crappy apps from the ios market anyway? That's one reason i'm leaving ios because the market got so blown up with stuff no one needs. Gameloft used to make nice games but now the stuff is all designed so you have to purchase 10 add-on packs after you pay 7$ for the game and as a dev you can choose if you want to show people the "top in-app purchases" list. If you don't, no one has a clue if they're buying a complete game or not.

Rubers' point was that you can buy a ps vita and a s3 for the same price of an iphone because those products are competitively priced; taking his comment into aspect of space is totally irrelevant.


----------



## grizzlyblunting

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaiFanatic*
> 
> A POS? Most of these cars last a lot longer than what's produced today. Also, mine is not a diesel beater that you see driving around with terrible vegetable oil conversions. It's a European spec, imported from Lebanon, which gives it quite the interesting history.
> Is the '97 Wrangler I drive, that only has 39,000 miles on it a POS because of the release of the JK chassis? I think not. The JKs are absolutely terrible.
> The fact that you even make such a comment, what does that say about you?


To imply its better than a modern top of the line benz in any way is a joke. You prefer the POS, it's ok


----------



## Blackops_2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mr Frosty*
> 
> There's quite a few, Sony do a few 4" phones with full 1280x1080 display.
> Intels Android powered phone runs a 4" screen and is quite frankly, the best CPU in any mobile phone, it's a single core Atom with HT and it smacks dual cores all over the place and bangs on the doors of quad cores, can't wait for the dual core version.
> Tbh I've used 4", 4.3" and 4.8" android phones and I do think that 4.8" is a it on the big side but I also think that 4" now is too small, 4.3" is the best screen size for a phone, you get excellent viewing and the screen can be put into tiny chassis.


Interesting i'll have to check those out. I still like 4" honestly would prefer the 4S screen size. I'm not wild about huge phones, as i have small hands and they take up way to much pocket space when they're that big.


----------



## CaptainChaos

I dont think anyone can actually argue that Apple haven't released a good phone. I understand the Apple hate, but one does not need to hate blindly. If it's not ahead of the curve it's surely right in line with the curve. Obviously that gap can be closed in a matter of months but that doesn't mean they havent gotten a bit of a jump in certain areas.

The iPhone 5 puts Apples entry right back at the top of the list again, it just so happens that this time around there are about 2 or 3 other phones right there with it. It really comes down to which ecosystem you want to buy into or which one you've already invested in. As an Android user I have no compelling reason to switch to an iPhone, or a Windows Phone since no one platform is doing anything drastically different .


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Look at the Oppo finder.


You mean that phone that may or may not actually exist? Take a look at their "website" and tell me you want one.

http://www.oppofinder.co.uk/


----------



## CaptainChaos

The Oppo Finder has already been released in China

and this site seems to work

http://store.opposhop.com.cn/goods/22


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CaptainChaos*
> 
> The Oppo Finder has already been released in China
> and this site seems to work
> http://store.opposhop.com.cn/goods/22


Maybe so, but it doesn't change the point I was trying to make.


----------



## CaptainChaos

Doesn't it though? lol

You said it may not actually exist. It actually does exist.


----------



## Mr Frosty

I've also seen the Oppo Finder for sale on sites so the phone does exist.


----------



## 3930K

That is a reseller's website...

And yes, I WANT one, doesn't mean I'd pay £400 for one though.


----------



## CJRhoades

You guys are taking my post too literally. What I'm saying is that I'd rather have an iPhone 5 than a phone by a manufacturer that no ones ever heard of. They don't even seem to have an English website even though they're supposedly located in the UK. Who do you contact for support? What if it breaks? The specs aren't horrible (except that display. 800x480 on 4.3"? no thanks.) but who knows how good it actually is. I guess the whole thing just seems a little fishy to me.


----------



## 3930K

800x480?
Eww.

And no the buisness is based in China.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> And no the buisness is based in China.


Oh? I thought I read somewhere that they were UK based.

EDIT: Nevermind, you're right. That defunct website is screwing with me.


----------



## noobhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*
> 
> You guys are taking my post too literally. What I'm saying is that I'd rather have an iPhone 5 than a phone by a manufacturer that no ones ever heard of. They don't even seem to have an English website even though they're supposedly located in the UK. Who do you contact for support? What if it breaks? The specs aren't horrible (except that display. 800x480 on 4.3"? no thanks.) but who knows how good it actually is. I guess the whole thing just seems a little fishy to me.


Wikipedia article first sentence. I have no idea where you get the idea that they are in the UK. Just because they don't have an english website doesn't mean they're fishy.


----------



## 3930K

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57513628-71/samsung-attacks-iphone-5-in-new-ad/

I lol'd.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *noobhell*
> 
> Wikipedia article first sentence. I have no idea where you get the idea that they are in the UK. Just because they don't have an english website doesn't mean they're fishy.


Yea, I've been doing a little more research. It seems I posted without having all of the facts. I still think it would be a major pain to have to deal with a Chinese company (nothing against the Chinese, I just speak English). I've bought a few things from Chinese websites before and while some were ok, the rest was a big disaster so I may be a bit biased.


----------



## noobhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57513628-71/samsung-attacks-iphone-5-in-new-ad/
> I lol'd.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57513628-71/samsung-attacks-iphone-5-in-new-ad/
> I lol'd.


Nice. Of course anyone with a bit of photoshop skill could turn that right around and make the SGSIII look like the piece of crap.


----------



## DiNet

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57513628-71/samsung-attacks-iphone-5-in-new-ad/
> I lol'd.


And this too


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DiNet*
> 
> And this too


----------



## VaiFanatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> To imply its better than a modern top of the line benz in any way is a joke. You prefer the POS, it's ok


To imply that a modern "top of the line" benz is better than what Mercedes engineered and designed in the past with Bruno Sacco, means you have absolutely no idea what you're even talking about. I'd say the best "Modern" S-Class since the W126 was the W220, which came before this current generation, which was the last one for Sacco to be involved in. Until then, W220s issues with electronics, suspension, and maintenance costs leave me happy I'm driving my "POS" which is in better shape than most newer cars I see on the road here.

Stop fooling yourself and pretending you know what you're talking about. If you did, you'd realize the following these older vehicles have, and the money that is invested to keep them in top form.

Have fun with trading up on your next lease and continuing to fuel the disposable society we live in. No wonder things aren't build to last anymore!! They're meant to last two-three years at the most!


----------



## CaptainChaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*
> 
> Yea, I've been doing a little more research. It seems I posted without having all of the facts. I still think it would be a major pain to have to deal with a Chinese company (nothing against the Chinese, I just speak English). I've bought a few things from Chinese websites before and while some were ok, the rest was a big disaster so I may be a bit biased.


That is true, no question that the iPhone is the better choice for the general consumer.


----------



## Mr Frosty

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57513628-71/samsung-attacks-iphone-5-in-new-ad/
> I lol'd.


EPIC!!


----------



## DJ XtAzY

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57513628-71/samsung-attacks-iphone-5-in-new-ad/
> I lol'd.


Since when did they officially confirm iphone 5 has 1gb of ram? (even though im pretty sure it's 1gb)


----------



## jjsoviet

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6292/iphone-5-a6-not-a15-custom-core

Looks like Anand retracted on its claim of the A6 being a pair of ARM A15's, but rather a custom-designed architecture. Looks like the GPU is also likely to be an overclocked SGX543MP3.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jjsoviet*
> 
> http://www.anandtech.com/show/6292/iphone-5-a6-not-a15-custom-core
> 
> Looks like Anand retracted on its claim of the A6 being a pair of ARM A15's, but rather a custom-designed architecture. Looks like the GPU is also likely to be an overclocked SGX543MP3.


Indeed, it's interesting. I'm looking forward to checking this thingy out.


----------



## cubanresourceful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> To imply its better than a modern top of the line benz in any way is a joke. You prefer the POS, it's ok


Cars, phones, houses, computers, etc are all based on what a customer may like. To him, his Benz is not a POS and he loves it. One thing that irritates the hell out of me, to the point of kicking the person's ass, is when they say my car is a POS because it's old[er] than theirs. Really? Newer doesn't equal better AND people will choose what they like.

Now, to address another point. Is it wrong for me to purchase the iPhone 5 over Nokia Lumia 920 or Samsung Galaxy SIII because I like how it looks? No. I don't think so. Why? Most people buy the car that they like best (within their price range) based on quite a few factors, including form. I purchased my car because I LOVE CAMAROS, does that make me an idiot? Also, I LOVE iOS. I LOVE Android. I LOVE Windows Phone. I've used them all. Android since the 2.1 days, Windows Phone since the 7.0 days, and iOS since the iOS 4 days.

Why does every discussion about a device has to be, well, this device x is better than y, so HAHAHAHAHA you idiot you bought a lamer device than device x! Or other comments like iSheep. I'm not an iSheep. I'm probably more intelligent than most of the people on this forum, especially when it comes to modern OS's and Mobile OS's. I have a job that deals with many OS's and mobile OS's and I need to know the quirks of all of them. So, I chose to buy the new iPhone. I guess I am an iSheep huh?









Well, at least I'm happy with my purchase and device.









EDIT:
Shameless plug: If anyone LOVES Chevy cars please join the Chevy club in my signature.


----------



## VaiFanatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cubanresourceful*
> 
> Cars, phones, houses, computers, etc are all based on what a customer may like. To him, his Benz is not a POS and he loves it. One thing that irritates the hell out of me, to the point of kicking the person's ass, is when they say my car is a POS because it's old[er] than theirs. Really? Newer doesn't equal better AND people will choose what they like.
> Now, to address another point. Is it wrong for me to purchase the iPhone 5 over Nokia Lumia 920 or Samsung Galaxy SIII because I like how it looks? No. I don't think so. Why? Most people buy the car that they like best (within their price range) based on quite a few factors, including form. I purchased my car because I LOVE CAMAROS, does that make me an idiot? Also, I LOVE iOS. I LOVE Android. I LOVE Windows Phone. I've used them all. Android since the 2.1 days, Windows Phone since the 7.0 days, and iOS since the iOS 4 days.
> Why does every discussion about a device has to be, well, this device x is better than y, so HAHAHAHAHA you idiot you bought a lamer device than device x! Or other comments like iSheep. I'm not an iSheep. I'm probably more intelligent than most of the people on this forum, especially when it comes to modern OS's and Mobile OS's. I have a job that deals with many OS's and mobile OS's and I need to know the quirks of all of them. So, I chose to buy the new iPhone. I guess I am an iSheep huh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, at least I'm happy with my purchase and device.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> Shameless plug: If anyone LOVES Chevy cars please join the Chevy club in my signature.


Someone else who doesn't have wool over their eyes!

I can afford a new S-Class or 7-series BMW, but that's just not what I want. Aesthetically, it's not appealing, and as someone who does his own repairs and restorations, I prefer less electronics and more familiar tech over something that one short can cause the whole vehicle not to start.

Unfortunately, personal biases will always take over when comparing two or more devices/vehicles/states/countries/planets/etc. to one another, because that's just human nature. Very few can agree to disagree, and simply buy what they like and be happy.

Personally, I get a sense of pride and commitment when I'm applauded for the shape of my 28 year old car, and I can't help but smile when I see others who've done the same. That said, I appreciate the advances in technology, and increase in efficiency (there hasn't been much of that, in all honesty), but there doesn't seem to be the same amount of pride put into cars that are made these days. Mercedes used to play up the fact that they will make absolutely sure there will be parts for any Mercedes for at least 125 years after its production.

I love my iPhone, and MacBook for their uses. Is there better out there? Sure, my PC is leaps and bounds better than my MacBook, but I don't rely on my MacBook for gaming/editing/etc.. In today's market, it's not about making products that last, it's about beating out the competition and producing as quickly (and efficiently, more or less) as possible.


----------



## CaptainChaos

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cubanresourceful*
> 
> Cars, phones, houses, computers, etc are all based on what a customer may like. To him, his Benz is not a POS and he loves it. One thing that irritates the hell out of me, to the point of kicking the person's ass, is when they say my car is a POS because it's old[er] than theirs. Really? Newer doesn't equal better AND people will choose what they like.
> Now, to address another point. Is it wrong for me to purchase the iPhone 5 over Nokia Lumia 920 or Samsung Galaxy SIII because I like how it looks? No. I don't think so. Why? Most people buy the car that they like best (within their price range) based on quite a few factors, including form. I purchased my car because I LOVE CAMAROS, does that make me an idiot? Also, I LOVE iOS. I LOVE Android. I LOVE Windows Phone. I've used them all. Android since the 2.1 days, Windows Phone since the 7.0 days, and iOS since the iOS 4 days.
> Why does every discussion about a device has to be, well, this device x is better than y, so HAHAHAHAHA you idiot you bought a lamer device than device x! Or other comments like iSheep. I'm not an iSheep. I'm probably more intelligent than most of the people on this forum, especially when it comes to modern OS's and Mobile OS's. I have a job that deals with many OS's and mobile OS's and I need to know the quirks of all of them. So, I chose to buy the new iPhone. I guess I am an iSheep huh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, at least I'm happy with my purchase and device.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT:
> Shameless plug: If anyone LOVES Chevy cars please join the Chevy club in my signature.


Nice post! I think people still think we are at a point where there's an actual tangible trade off between smartphone platforms. That hasn't been the case for many years now. Essentially any smartphone platform you buy into will do the things you want it to do. It just comes down to which one you like best or which one you've already invested the most in.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaiFanatic*
> 
> see others who've done the same. That said, I appreciate the advances in technology, and increase in efficiency (there hasn't been much of that, in all honesty), but there doesn't seem to be the same amount of pride put into cars that are made these days. Mercedes used to play up the fact that they will make absolutely sure there will be parts for any Mercedes for at least 125 years after its production.
> I love my iPhone, and MacBook for their uses. Is there better out there? Sure, my PC is leaps and bounds better than my MacBook, but I don't rely on my MacBook for gaming/editing/etc.. In today's market, it's not about making products that last, it's about beating out the competition and producing as quickly (and efficiently, more or less) as possible.


are you kidding? how many mpg do you get in that car honestly? also, i bet the emission standards back then were substantially lower. maybe you like how it looks, but that does not mean that there haven't been vast improvements in the past 30 years


----------



## VaiFanatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *perfectblade*
> 
> are you kidding? how many mpg do you get in that car honestly? also, i bet the emission standards back then were substantially lower. maybe you like how it looks, but that does not mean that there haven't been vast improvements in the past 30 years


22-23. And I pass emissions with flying colors. Unless they're the diesels or hybrid gasoline S-Class sedans (we don't have them here in the US), the MPG is only marginally better on today's models. Obviously you missed there part where I acknowledged that there have been improvements.

What I would love, is what Europe gets. With a combination of an electric motor and gas motor, one variant of the latest 2012 E-Class can achieve nearly 65MPG!! But guess what, we can't get those here in the land of the free. Why? Because people want the AMGs, that guzzle gas, not what will be frugal.

So, until people around here wise up, I'll stick with what I have, because it's a lot more rock-solid than what's being made.

A 1985 190D 2.2L with a 5-speed manual transmission can pull 45MPG on the highway, that's a 27 year old car, and it can still go further on one gallon of diesel than most cars today can on gas.


----------



## perfectblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaiFanatic*
> 
> 22-23. And I pass emissions with flying colors. Unless they're the diesels or hybrid gasoline S-Class sedans (we don't have them here in the US), the MPG is only marginally better on today's models. Obviously you missed there part where I acknowledged that there have been improvements.
> What I would love, is what Europe gets. With a combination of an electric motor and gas motor, one variant of the latest 2012 E-Class can achieve nearly 65MPG!! But guess what, we can't get those here in the land of the free. Why? Because people want the AMGs, that guzzle gas, not what will be frugal.
> So, until people around here wise up, I'll stick with what I have, because it's a lot more rock-solid than what's being made.
> A 1985 190D 2.2L with a 5-speed manual transmission can pull 45MPG on the highway, that's a 27 year old car, and it can still go further on one gallon of diesel than most cars today can on gas.


there are sporty hybrids (not just by mercedes) that get about 40 mpg today, have less emissions and perform far better.

they are also expensive (I couldn't afford them). but hey no need to deny science or progress


----------



## noobhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *VaiFanatic*
> 
> 22-23. And I pass emissions with flying colors. Unless they're the diesels or hybrid gasoline S-Class sedans (we don't have them here in the US), the MPG is only marginally better on today's models. Obviously you missed there part where I acknowledged that there have been improvements.
> What I would love, is what Europe gets. With a combination of an electric motor and gas motor, one variant of the latest 2012 E-Class can achieve nearly 65MPG!! But guess what, we can't get those here in the land of the free. Why? Because people want the AMGs, that guzzle gas, not what will be frugal.
> So, until people around here wise up, I'll stick with what I have, because it's a lot more rock-solid than what's being made.
> A 1985 190D 2.2L with a 5-speed manual transmission can pull 45MPG on the highway, that's a 27 year old car, and it can still go further on one gallon of diesel than most cars today can on gas.


You know the vw golf gets around 110mpg but no one is ever is going buy it in the US since everybody's embarrased driving such a small car. I felt like a midget in california with it.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> I try not to be too biased but I admit I have a small bias towards Android.
> 
> It's not confirmed to have A15s, and if it does, it isn't the first one. Look at the Oppo finder.


True.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> Except the Vita won't have the same games as the iPhone (I'd actually argue apart from a handful, it'd be worse considering the amount of emulators any modern phone has) and a PS Vita + SGS3 take up a lot more room than a single iPhone 5, stop clutching at straws and please admit Apple have released a decent product, it's the first A15 based phone too and is definitely ahead of the curve, saying it's not is like arguing that those laptops with two screens aren't innovative at all because they just use off the shelf parts.
> Yeah, iirc it was _slightly_ slower though.
> It's bad on both sides, you have 3-4 posters who are actually unbiased, 1-2 Apple fanboys and a crowd of Android fanboys. (And the obligatory WP fanboy)
> All the research in the world doesn't prevent an already biased mind.
> For the record, I do believe that Apple's patents shouldn't be valid and I won't be buying the iPhone 5 (4" screen is way too small) but I figured I'd point this out.
> This, it's not like an i7; think of it more as Intel making the i7 then selling the design to Samsung, AMD, IBM, etc.
> Why would I run a full Linux distro on a _phone_? I have more than enough spare computer hardware over 10x faster to do that.
> Only the most hardcore Android users would even come close to actually needing 4 cores in a phone, easily 99.9% will never notice the difference between a 1.2Ghz quad and a 1.2Ghz dual.
> Widgets? A real argument against iOS.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, the hardware is still rumour and unconfirmed. No, Apple haven't released a good phone, they're catching up to existing features, and there's supposedly a Chinese phone out with an A15 already. I'd rather have a PS Vita.
> 
> There is a major difference between a dual and a quad and I'm starting to get exasperated arguing about it. If you don't see it then fair enough to you. I can quantify it. It's not about "needing it" it's about how the systme uses it and how it affects the phone in the long rung. Better battery life and a more fluid Android. Also, Jelly Bean. The users running it in XDA are reporting major boners from it, lol.
> 
> Also, why not run a Linux distro off your phone? Once it matures, it's going to be quite handy for the same reasons Canonical are pushing it.
> 
> Oh and don't crowd me in with Android fanboys. Yeah, I prefer Android over iOS and WP, but I actually like WP and the devices running it. I don't like iOS and I don't like Apple. Call me an Apple hater because I'm happy with that.
Click to expand...

True for the hardware, it's a good phone regardless of it being a catch up, the SGSIII was a catch up to be honest.

Compared quad cores and dual cores, faster in benchmarks but the difference between any modern high-end phone CPU is tiny regardless, it uses more battery life than a dual core (Obviously), Jelly Bean is fast on my 18 month old SGSII underclocked to 800Mhz let alone a 1.6Ghz quad or something.

I can see the point of it, but for the most part those will be separate phones.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> Except the Vita won't have the same games as the iPhone (I'd actually argue apart from a handful, it'd be worse considering the amount of emulators any modern phone has) and a PS Vita + SGS3 take up a lot more room than a single iPhone 5, stop clutching at straws and please admit *Apple have released a decent product*, it's the first A15 based phone too and is definitely ahead of the curve, saying it's not is like arguing that those laptops with two screens aren't innovative at all because they just use off the shelf parts.
> 
> 
> 
> Ahh... No they haven't.
Click to expand...

Why not? Come on, legitimate reasons, please.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *noobhell*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> Except the Vita won't have the same games as the iPhone (I'd actually argue apart from a handful, it'd be worse considering the amount of emulators any modern phone has) and a PS Vita + SGS3 take up a lot more room than a single iPhone 5, stop clutching at straws and please admit Apple have released a decent product, it's the first A15 based phone too and is definitely ahead of the curve, saying it's not is like arguing that those laptops with two screens aren't innovative at all because they just use off the shelf parts.
> 
> 
> 
> Who wants to have those crappy apps from the ios market anyway? That's one reason i'm leaving ios because the market got so blown up with stuff no one needs. Gameloft used to make nice games but now the stuff is all designed so you have to purchase 10 add-on packs after you pay 7$ for the game and as a dev you can choose if you want to show people the "top in-app purchases" list. If you don't, no one has a clue if they're buying a complete game or not.
> Rubers' point was that you can buy a ps vita and a s3 for the same price of an iphone because those products are competitively priced; taking his comment into aspect of space is totally irrelevant.
Click to expand...

How is it irrelevant? If you buy those products then you'll have to deal with the space, it's like me saying that the battery life is irrelevant; and yes, both markets have been filled with crap nearly no-one needs and bad ripoffs.


----------



## steelbom

Came here for Apple thread...

Found car thread...

Is confuzzled


















I can't wait to see how well the processor and graphics in the iPhone 5 perform


----------



## noobhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Came here for Apple thread...
> Found car thread...
> Is confuzzled
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can't wait to see how well the processor and graphics in the iPhone 5 perform


I thought the gpu in the 4s was already too strong for games


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *noobhell*
> 
> I thought the gpu in the 4s was already too strong for games


What do you mean? How can a GPU be "too strong" for games? The more powerful the GPU is the better.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *noobhell*
> 
> I thought the gpu in the 4s was already too strong for games
> 
> 
> 
> What do you mean? How can a GPU be "too strong" for games? The more powerful the GPU is the better.
Click to expand...

Yeah.

Well maybe a 690 at 1080p but...

In mobile phones GPUs have a long way to go, the SGX430MP3 in the iPhone 5 being an example.


----------



## naved777

*The iPhone 5's A6 SoC: Not A15 or A9, a Custom Apple Core Instead*
Quote:


> Prior to the announcement we speculated the iPhone 5's SoC would simply be a higher clocked version of the 32nm A5r2 used in the iPad 2,4. After all, Apple seems to like saving major architecture shifts for the iPad.
> 
> However, just prior to the announcement I received some information pointing to a move away from the ARM Cortex A9 used in the A5. Given Apple's reliance on fully licensed ARM cores in the past, the expected performance gains and unpublishable information that started all of this I concluded Apple's A6 SoC likely featured two ARM Cortex A15 cores.
> 
> It turns out I was wrong. But pleasantly surprised.


Source::
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6292/iphone-5-a6-not-a15-custom-core

More on iPhone 5 Memory:
Quote:


> Apple thankfully didn't obscure the details of its A6 slide at the launch event, which gave us a Samsung part number: K3PE7E700F-XGC2. Through crafty navigation of Samsung's product guide, Brian Klug got us the details. The K3P tells us we're looking at a dual-channel LPDDR2 package with 32-bit channels. The E7E7 gives us the density of each of the two DRAM die (512MB per die, 1GB total). The final two characters in the part number give us the cycle time/data rate, which in this case is 1066MHz.


Source::
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6297/iphone-5-memory-size-and-speed-revealed-1gb-lpddr21066


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> True.
> True for the hardware, it's a good phone regardless of it being a catch up, the SGSIII was a catch up to be honest.
> Compared quad cores and dual cores, faster in benchmarks but the difference between any modern high-end phone CPU is tiny regardless, it uses more battery life than a dual core (Obviously), Jelly Bean is fast on my 18 month old SGSII underclocked to 800Mhz let alone a 1.6Ghz quad or something.
> I can see the point of it, but for the most part those will be separate phones.
> Why not? Come on, legitimate reasons, please.
> How is it irrelevant? If you buy those products then you'll have to deal with the space, it's like me saying that the battery life is irrelevant; and yes, both markets have been filled with crap nearly no-one needs and bad ripoffs.


The quads use less power!

My quad is only 1.4ghz and I dont see people claiming its a revolutionary phone. It IS a great phone, though. It's stupid to deny that.

As for the iPhone5... I'll reserve judgement until its dropped and benchmarks are in.


----------



## Rubers

Also if Apple have designed their own CPU 100% like the anandtech article suggests THAT'S a good thing and if it's a good performer then I'd say that's ahead of the curve


----------



## noobhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> What do you mean? How can a GPU be "too strong" for games? The more powerful the GPU is the better.


Looking at the kinds of games and at what def they are getting played I don't see much reson for a better gpu. Probably Infinity Blade 2 is the most demanding game on the market but the 4s doesn't seem all to stressed with it.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> True.
> True for the hardware, it's a good phone regardless of it being a catch up, the SGSIII was a catch up to be honest.
> Compared quad cores and dual cores, faster in benchmarks but the difference between any modern high-end phone CPU is tiny regardless, it uses more battery life than a dual core (Obviously), Jelly Bean is fast on my 18 month old SGSII underclocked to 800Mhz let alone a 1.6Ghz quad or something.
> I can see the point of it, but for the most part those will be separate phones.
> Why not? Come on, legitimate reasons, please.
> How is it irrelevant? If you buy those products then you'll have to deal with the space, it's like me saying that the battery life is irrelevant; and yes, both markets have been filled with crap nearly no-one needs and bad ripoffs.
> 
> 
> 
> The quads use less power!
> 
> My quad is only 1.4ghz and I dont see people claiming its a revolutionary phone. It IS a great phone, though. It's stupid to deny that.
> 
> As for the iPhone5... I'll reserve judgement until its dropped and benchmarks are in.
Click to expand...

How can more transistors use less power? At full tilt, the quad would use twice as much power as a dual core at the same clock speeds; realistically you don't need the performance of a highly clocked dual, let alone a quad; I can underclock my SGSII to 800Mhz and not notice a difference apart from the better battery life, plus most code in Android struggles to use dual cores..._still_, there's absolutely no reason for a quad, just like with your average consumer desktop systems, it's also why Apple didn't go for a quad here, maybe a few users would see the difference but for the most part consumers are fine with a slow clocked dual core which would use less power than the quad.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *noobhell*
> 
> Looking at the kinds of games and at what def they are getting played I don't see much reson for a better gpu. Probably Infinity Blade 2 is the most demanding game on the market but the 4s doesn't seem all to stressed with it.


The better GPU will give developers more room to put out better games, though.


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> How can more transistors use less power? At full tilt, the quad would use twice as much power as a dual core at the same clock speeds; realistically you don't need the performance of a highly clocked dual, let alone a quad; I can underclock my SGSII to 800Mhz and not notice a difference apart from the better battery life, plus most code in Android struggles to use dual cores..._still_, there's absolutely no reason for a quad, just like with your average consumer desktop systems, it's also why Apple didn't go for a quad here, maybe a few users would see the difference but for the most part consumers are fine with a slow clocked dual core which would use less power than the quad.


I ran tests myself to prove this claiming, using two Galaxy S3's Exynos 4412's. I disabled two cores on one phone and left the other alone. Both were stock clocks, however the dual; was undervolted by 100mV on each step. The dual used more power in my testing (Sims Free Play, a total battery hog).

And how does it not make sense? A dual running at 80% on both cores uses more power than a quad running at 20% on all cores. The logic behind this? Look at our CPU's in the desktop market. If you run a Prime95 stress test your CPU consumes more power than when you're gaming or idling if you have stuff like Speedstep of Cool n Quiet enabled. The same kind of technology is used in phones with the CPU govenor, with the frequency stepping between different levels and even sending the CPU in a "deep sleep".

And Android doesn't struggle to use quad cores at all. As of Android 4.0 it's been specifically geared towards using more cores/threads and is optimised to use at the most 4 cores. The OS and kernel work together to spread the workload across cores. The OS moves system processes to free cores when an App is using one or two cores (or even four in the cases of many games) whereas the kernel scheduling does the rest of the work, for instance, CFS designed for multitasking.

Yes, a slow clocked dual core would use less power than the quad, and this is the beauty of Android that we can underclock our phones and decide for ourselves. But all things being equal, the quad cores in the One X and GS3 aren't useless at all and are perfectly viable for day to day usage.

Quote:


> But battery life is a very real benefit to quad-core processors as well, Kumar said.
> 
> "When you distribute power over multiple cores, you can save on power consumption," he said. "If I gave you a 1GHz workload on a single core processor, you'll be using that one core a lot harder to pull off what you're doing. If you have a processor with two, or four cores, you could end up consuming less power because the device won't have to work as hard to handle the workload. So, if engineered correctly, you could end up with better battery life."


http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2012/05/quad-core-vs-dual-core-phones-tablets-nvidia-samsung-galaxy/2/
Quote:


> A common misconception is that a multi-core CPU consumes more power than a single core
> CPU and causes significant reduction in battery life. On the contrary, due to variable symmetric
> multiprocessing, the main quad core CPU architecture of Project Kal-El is more power efficient
> and delivers higher performance per watt than competing single and dual core processors.
> In order to meet peak performance demands in a multitasking environment, a single core CPU
> not only runs at higher clock frequencies and voltages than a multi-core CPU, but also takes
> longer periods of time to complete a given task. Multi-core CPUs are able to use symmetrical
> multiprocessing and distribute workload across multiple CPU cores. Due to workload sharing,
> each CPU core can run at lower frequency and voltage to complete a multi-threaded task, or
> multiple tasks in a multi-tasking scenario. Also, due to lower operating frequency and voltage,
> each core consumes significantly lower power and offers much higher performance per watt
> compared to single core CPUs.


http://www.nvidia.com/content/PDF/tegra_white_papers/tegra-whitepaper-0911a.pdf


----------



## Brutuz

A dual running at 80% on both cores vs a quad running at 20% on all 4? Shouldn't that be a dual running at 40% on both cores, otherwise the dual is at 160% (Using Linux's method of 100% = 1 core is fully loaded) and the quad only at 80%, which would really be no wonder the quad was using less power.

I'd love to see if the 2 extra cores were actually fully disabled, how did you do it?


----------



## Rubers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> A dual running at 80% on both cores vs a quad running at 20% on all 4? Shouldn't that be a dual running at 40% on both cores, otherwise the dual is at 160% (Using Linux's method of 100% = 1 core is fully loaded) and the quad only at 80%, which would really be no wonder the quad was using less power.
> I'd love to see if the 2 extra cores were actually fully disabled, how did you do it?


What I mean is each core at 80% each on the dual (which I saw during testing) while the quad was around 20-30% each core









And yeah, I used Siyah kernel for the S3 (There's an S2 version also qhich came first I think







) http://www.gokhanmoral.com/ Give it a shot. And they were indeed disbaled as I used Micro CPU Monitor to get an approximate usage (try setting it to 200px wide, much easier to see). The last two cores didn't light up at all. They were disabled at the kernel level.

EDIT:

Also, try setting the monitors to red and green or something easier to see. I find the ICS blue is hard to see

edit 2:

Not sure if the S2 version comes with STweaks which I used to change the settings, including USB charging rate (VERY HANDY) but if it doesn't (which it should) use EXTweaks from the play store. Again, though, it will 99% likely come with STweaks and this edit is useless.


----------



## yawa

Not that hard to do on a droid. Tinkering is our major benefit. I have a battery draining galaxy nexus, and fully rooted running lean kernel I get well over 20 hours through my day. And trust me when i say that ICS/jellybean is scary in how much of a jump it is in both efficiency and smoothness from 2.3. The truth is apple didn't even bother to try to match the specs of its main competitor's flagship phone, not that specs matter to iPhone users. The ignorance is sad.

But whatever, Welcome to what we have been enjoying on android since late 2011 iphone users...


----------



## xd_1771

Hypocrisy, guys.

Quote:


> Alongside the iPhone 5 and iPod touch announcements yesterday, Apple unveiled a brand new iPod nano that was a radical departure from the previous generation nano. It incorporates a widescreen display and is the thinnest nano yet at just 5.4mm.
> 
> It's only been a few weeks since Apple's victory over Samsung for copying its designs, so it's more than a little surprising to find the new iPod nano looks almost exactly the same as a Samsung MP3 player from 2007.


READ MORE and PICTURE HERE


----------



## raptorxrx

Quote:


> As a consumer I'd just like to see the lawsuits stop, all companies putting out their best products and accompanying services, and letting me choose which one to buy rather than seeing products removed from sale due to patent infringements.


Sums it up IMO.


----------



## Artikbot

If I were Samsung I'd stomp this on Apple's face and say:

'Remove ALL lawsuits going on regarding rounded corners and centered buttons, and other gimmicks and I'm not going to sue you.'


----------



## S2000_Skyline12

I remember that MP3 player, I wanted it. Apple's gonna get an awakening .


----------



## l No l FeaR l

And so I will continue to NOT support Apple and NOT buy ANY of their products. Screw you Apple.


----------



## TheBlindDeafMute

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l No l FeaR l*
> 
> And so I will continue to NOT support Apple and NOT buy ANY of their products. Screw you Apple.


Temper, temper. You are 1 person, I'm pretty sure Apple is going to cater to the billions of people that will purchase one, and disregard your opinion.


----------



## Biorganic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *l No l FeaR l*
> 
> And so I will continue to NOT support Apple and NOT buy ANY of their products. Screw you Apple.


This^

I just showed those pics comparing the two devices to my girlfriend and she laughed. I hope Crapple gets their A$$ handed to them soo hard that they get transported back in time to Isaac Newton.


----------



## AznDud333

in b4 apple fanboy tell us apple invented rectangles in the dawn of mankind


----------



## bencher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> What do you mean? How can a GPU be "too strong" for games? The more powerful the GPU is the better.


How can a cpu be too powerful?

Like you stated that no phone needs a quad core cpu.


----------



## kennyparker1337

I suppose I am the only one who is not the least bit interested in any type of iPhone launch.


----------



## andrews2547

Why is this news?










I also wonder if Samsung is going to sue them for it.


----------



## Segovax

Ya leave it to the government to muddy things up. Good job gov.


----------



## SwishaMane

They look nothing alike... Period.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SwishaMane*
> 
> They look nothing alike... Period.


Did you even look at the photos?

The new Nano is a clone of the old Samsung.


----------



## raptorxrx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SwishaMane*
> 
> They look nothing alike... Period.




Wait what?


----------



## grizzlyblunting

well the nano is gray whereas the samsung is black. clearly they are different


----------



## Stealth Pyros

Now Samsung sues Apple and Apple chiefs say "We hate patent trolls, they ruin competition and look to harm the consumers' variety of options."


----------



## Cannon19932006

Apple innovation at it's best!


----------



## raptorxrx

Eh, who buys Nano's anyways?


----------



## DrDarkTempler

Watch, Sandisk gonna comes in and say NOWAI! Samsung and Apple copied our design! is time to sue them both!


----------



## 2010rig

I just found a new iPhone 5 ad that is relevant for this thread.


----------



## steelbom

The new iPod nano doesn't look like that Samsung MP3 player. It's just the previous generation iPod nano with a taller screen, and a home button.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Yeah.
> 
> Well maybe a 690 at 1080p but...
> 
> In mobile phones GPUs have a long way to go, the SGX430MP3 in the iPhone 5 being an example.


Yeah... the SGX543MP2 in the 4S is good but there's plenty of room for improvement.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *noobhell*
> 
> Looking at the kinds of games and at what def they are getting played I don't see much reson for a better gpu. Probably Infinity Blade 2 is the most demanding game on the market but the 4s doesn't seem all to stressed with it.


Without better graphics better games can't be made. It may not seem like it's stressed with it but it is -- I'd say it runs at about 30-35 FPS. Infinity Blade: Dungeons will be out soon and it's going to be fantastic.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bencher*
> 
> How can a cpu be too powerful?
> 
> Like you stated that no phone needs a quad core cpu.


Stating that a smartphone doesn't need a quad-core isn't saying it doesn't need to be any more powerful. I'm arguing for better performance per core which is saying it needs more power. However on a smartphone, graphics are much more important for games than the processor.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> I just found a new iPhone 5 ad that is relevant for this thread.


That's the fairest comparison I've ever seen









Twice as powerful graphics... thinner... better camera... full sRGB coverage... just to name a few that matter.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rubers*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Brutuz*
> 
> A dual running at 80% on both cores vs a quad running at 20% on all 4? Shouldn't that be a dual running at 40% on both cores, otherwise the dual is at 160% (Using Linux's method of 100% = 1 core is fully loaded) and the quad only at 80%, which would really be no wonder the quad was using less power.
> I'd love to see if the 2 extra cores were actually fully disabled, how did you do it?
> 
> 
> 
> What I mean is each core at 80% each on the dual (which I saw during testing) while the quad was around 20-30% each core
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yeah, I used Siyah kernel for the S3 (There's an S2 version also qhich came first I think
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ) http://www.gokhanmoral.com/ Give it a shot. And they were indeed disbaled as I used Micro CPU Monitor to get an approximate usage (try setting it to 200px wide, much easier to see). The last two cores didn't light up at all. They were disabled at the kernel level.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Also, try setting the monitors to red and green or something easier to see. I find the ICS blue is hard to see
> 
> edit 2:
> 
> Not sure if the S2 version comes with STweaks which I used to change the settings, including USB charging rate (VERY HANDY) but if it doesn't (which it should) use EXTweaks from the play store. Again, though, it will 99% likely come with STweaks and this edit is useless.
Click to expand...

I wonder if disabling at the kernel level is enough though, even though they clearly wouldn't get any instructions and the ARM power saving features would hopefully turn them off, you never know..Not like we could get a 100% fair comparison though.

I used to use Siyahkernel on my ICS ROM, now I'm on JB (ParanoidAndroid) and using whatever comes with that.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> That's the fairest comparison I've ever seen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Twice as powerful graphics... thinner... better camera... full sRGB coverage... just to name a few that matter.


Twice as powerful graphics on a *4" screen* = who cares. The GS3 plays games just fine as well on a much larger display.

*Thinner* = So what? Is 8.6mm thick? I don't think so. Thinner also gives you a thinner, less powerful, unchangeable battery.

GS3 has a great camera and display as well, and again, I'd take a 4.8" screen over a tiny 4.0" screen, but hey, 2010 welcomes the iPhone to the 4" club.









Isn't Apple copying Samsung for making a 4" screen phone? I do recall Steve Jobs frowning upon larger screens.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> I just found a new iPhone 5 ad that is relevant for this thread.


An ad by a direct competitor? Not biased or one-sided at all I'm sure. I'm sure Apple isn't too worried about the S3. I'm interested to see how the iPhone 5 sales compare to the S3 after 30 days.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Twice as powerful graphics on a *4" screen* = who cares. The GS3 plays games just fine as well on a much larger display.


It's convenient that graphics don't matter now that the iPhone is the most powerful (in graphics) again. I'd rather have beautiful graphics on a 4 inch display than decent graphics at even 5.5 inches. It would also be quite beneficial when outputting a supported game to an HDTV.
Quote:


> *Thinner* = So what? Is 8.6mm thick? I don't think so. Thinner also gives you a thinner, less powerful, unchangeable battery.


It's not. But it's still thinner. And lighter.
Quote:


> GS3 has a great camera and display as well, and again, I'd take a 4.8" screen over a tiny 4.0" screen, but hey, 2010 welcomes the iPhone to the 4" club.


It does. But it doesn't have a display with full sRGB coverage, and it only just caught up to the 4S in terms of camera quality so the 5 will likely top it again.
Quote:


> Isn't Apple copying Samsung for making a 4" screen phone? I do recall Steve Jobs frowning upon larger screens.


Nope. It's natural progression.


----------



## Clairvoyant129

Hilarious. Android fan were drooling over the Mali-400 found in the Galaxy S3 International but when Apple comes out with better hardware plus a screen with full sRGB coverage, it's automatically crap. "Oh GPU performance doesn't matter anymore." "Oh GPUs found in Android are good enough." "Apple sucks blah blah blah."

I welcome hardware advancement whether it's Apple, Samsung, HTC etc.


----------



## 2010rig

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Nope. It's natural progression.


When Apple copies it's natural progression, when Samsung innovates it's considered copying and Apple sues.

Hypocritical Double Standards 101: Welcome to the world of Apple and their loyal fans.


----------



## zamdam

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> I just found a new iPhone 5 ad that is relevant for this thread.


790 hours of standby time.. They wish. They're lucky if it would last two days on standby. The only way that battery would last 790 hours, is if they took it out of the phone for 790 hours.

11.4 hours of talk time.. lmao.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zamdam*
> 
> 790 hours of standby time.. They wish. They're lucky if it would last two days on standby. The only way that battery would last 790 hours, is if they took it out of the phone for 790 hours.
> 11.4 hours of talk time.. lmao.


Yea, I don't understand how they came up with that figure. 790 hours is nearly 33 days. I'm lucky if my phone lasts 5 days on standby.

The iPhone's figure of 225 hours (or 9ish days) sounds much more realistic.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zamdam*
> 
> 790 hours of standby time.. They wish. They're lucky if it would last two days on standby. The only way that battery would last 790 hours, is if they took it out of the phone for 790 hours.
> 11.4 hours of talk time.. lmao.


Having a few employees that have the GS3, I would LOVE to know how they got that 790 hour standby time. I would imagine they had to shutdown every process possible and, obviously, had the screen off.

As for Mr. Apple Logo Avatar, please, you can't be so blind as to not see that the new Nano and old Samsung look almost identical.


----------



## 3930K

My iThingy 4 lasts a day standby.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> When Apple copies it's natural progression, when Samsung innovates it's considered copying and Apple sues.
> 
> Hypocritical Double Standards 101: Welcome to the world of Apple and their loyal fans.


I'm not a hypocrite, I don't have double standards and I'm not "loyal" to Apple either. Chill.

"Releasing a 4-inch smartphone" isn't the same as "copying another smartphone". Samsung (or any other Android manufacturer) did not invent the concept of a larger display, nor 4G LTE. It's natural progression to use better technology when it becomes available, as is listening to the market -- for years Apple users have wanted a larger display.

And Apple couldn't have made the display larger any more differently -- unlike Android manufacturers, Apple only increased the height of the iPhone, not the width... that way it's still usable with one hand.

And more importantly the iPhone 5 looks nothing like any of Samsung's smartphones. Samsung on the other hand has at least a couple of smartphones which look too similar, such as the S or S 2, and then they've got a tablet or two as well as the packaging.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> As for Mr. Apple Logo Avatar, please, you can't be so blind as to not see that the new Nano and old Samsung look almost identical.


I'm not blind.

The only similarity between the two is that they're both rectangles. The Nano has a coloured border, a coloured aluminium back, a thin black bezel on the front, a longer screen, a very different home button, and a completely different UI. On top of that it's the only model which is black, the rest of them are all white.

It looks like an iPod touch without the top bezel.


----------



## 3930K

Then all that the S and the iPhone have in common are being rectangles.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Then all that the S and the iPhone have in common are being rectangles.


No.



It's not "wrong" having a black device with rounded rectangles by itself, but with a silver border and the software similarities it's just too similar. Samsung did copy the iPhone, they themselves said "We need to make something more like the iPhone". And they did. Before the iPhone all their smartphones were different (even their prototypes differed from the iPhone) and after, they released the S.

The Nano is nothing more than an evolution of Apple's own devices, it's a smaller iPod touch.


----------



## AznDud333

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> I'm not a hypocrite, I don't have double standards and I'm not "loyal" to Apple either. Chill.
> "Releasing a 4-inch smartphone" isn't the same as "copying another smartphone". Samsung (or any other Android manufacturer) did not invent the concept of a larger display, nor 4G LTE. It's natural progression to use better technology when it becomes available, as is listening to the market -- for years Apple users have wanted a larger display.
> And Apple couldn't have made the display larger any more differently -- unlike Android manufacturers, Apple only increased the height of the iPhone, not the width... that way it's still usable with one hand.
> And more importantly the iPhone 5 looks nothing like any of Samsung's smartphones. Samsung on the other hand has at least a couple of smartphones which look too similar, such as the S or S 2, and then they've got a tablet or two as well as the packaging.
> I'm not blind.
> The only similarity between the two is that they're both rectangles. The Nano has a coloured border, a coloured aluminium back, a thin black bezel on the front, a longer screen, a very different home button, and a completely different UI. On top of that it's the only model which is black, the rest of them are all white.
> It looks like an iPod touch without the top bezel.


im going to steal apple's argument here
but they're both rectangles! the homebutton is both circular, the form factor is similar and the music icon looks the same! apple copied samsung !11!
taste your own meds apple.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> No.
> 
> It's not "wrong" having a black device with rounded rectangles by itself, but with a silver border and the software similarities it's just too similar. Samsung did copy the iPhone, they themselves said "We need to make something more like the iPhone". And they did. Before the iPhone all their smartphones were different (even their prototypes differed from the iPhone) and after, they released the S.
> The Nano is nothing more than an evolution of Apple's own devices, it's a smaller iPod touch.


quit posting photoshopped comparisons, galaxy s was 0.5inches bigger and had a narrower formfactor


----------



## 3930K

Nice shopping. I'll cook a REAL comparison of the S and the iPhone when I get home. I'll also do one for the MP3 and the Samsung prototype. Seriously, if you care about metal borders, why don't you care about rounded eyes inside straight corners, rectangle within a rectangle?


----------



## WC_EEND

Actually, I think the new iPod nano looks a lot more like the Nokia Lumia series. I'm secretly hoping Nokia takes Apple to court though.


----------



## somebodysb2

So many people love to forget the 6G.

Nano 6G: 2010
Nokia N9: 2011
Lumia 800: 2011
Lumia 900: 2012
Lumia 920: 2012
Nano 7G: 2012


----------



## cubanresourceful

So many posts I would like to comment, but, here's one for the masses. Aren't there more important things in life to care about than worrying who copied whom?


----------



## kennyparker1337

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cubanresourceful*
> 
> So many posts I would like to comment, but, here's one for the masses. Aren't there more important things in life to care about than worrying who copied whom?


Aren't there more important things in life to care about than worrying about people worrying who copied whom?

Your question is inherently ironic.

The word "important" is subjective. It can be applied to anything by anyone. What you deem important might not be important to someone else.


----------



## noobhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TheBlindDeafMute*
> 
> Temper, temper. You are 1 person, I'm pretty sure Apple is going to cater to the billions of people that will purchase one, and disregard your opinion.


If every person thinks like that then Apple will have a prob


----------



## alexmaia_br

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *2010rig*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> That's the fairest comparison I've ever seen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Twice as powerful graphics... thinner... better camera... full sRGB coverage... just to name a few that matter.
> 
> 
> 
> Twice as powerful graphics on a *4" screen* = who cares.
Click to expand...

I care. I prefer the smaller screen on the iPhone.
Quote:


> The GS3 plays games just fine as well on a much larger display.


IMO, too big for a phone.
Quote:


> *Thinner* = So what? Is 8.6mm thick? I don't think so. Thinner also gives you a thinner, less powerful, unchangeable battery.


But it's thinner, I care. Hell, I care about 0.1mm. I like slim designs. If it can endure a day's work and it's anything thinner, I'll take it.
Quote:


> GS3 has a great camera and display as well, and again, I'd take a 4.8" screen over a tiny 4.0" screen, but hey, 2010 welcomes the iPhone to the 4" club.


I wouldn't. I have my PS vita for comfortable gaming, which I like.

Now, see, I don't preach the iPhone as the next coming. I like the android, but what puzzles me is the sheer inability of some people to understand that the iPhone is a good option.

Some of you prefer the Android, fine. I prefer the Iphone: i like the design, the iOS (I don't like personalizing much anyways) and native japanese support, the smaller screen, I certainly welcome the A6.

And, as a plus, I don't have to call others sheeps or drones because I don't agree with their choice.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *somebodysb2*
> 
> So many people love to forget the 6G.
> 
> Nano 6G: 2010
> Nokia N9: 2011
> Lumia 800: 2011
> Lumia 900: 2012
> Lumia 920: 2012
> Nano 7G: 2012


And of course you ignore the Sammy MP3 player.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *somebodysb2*
> 
> So many people love to forget the 6G.
> 
> Nano 6G: 2010
> Nokia N9: 2011
> Lumia 800: 2011
> Lumia 900: 2012
> Lumia 920: 2012
> Nano 7G: 2012
> 
> 
> 
> And of course you ignore the Sammy MP3 player.
Click to expand...

- Yes, the new iPod looks like the Samsung MP3 player from 2007.
- Yes, the new iPod looks like a scaled up version of the 2010 iPod Nano, and also like a miniature version of the iPod Touch.

I think Apple could make the argument that they were just scaling existing designs for the most part, or combining some of their existing designs. Samsung could probably also argue that it looks very close to their design as well.

OCN members arguing that Apple has copied a less successful MP3 player is lame. About as lame as Apple arguing that everyone is copying their designs. Personally I wish the patent system would get reformed so technology isn't stifled, and so OCN will shut their trap about it already. I realize that many people are bringing up the subject just to make fun of how Apple is the pot calling the kettle black, but regardless, it's still old hearing about it.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *somebodysb2*
> 
> So many people love to forget the 6G.
> 
> Nano 6G: 2010
> Nokia N9: 2011
> Lumia 800: 2011
> Lumia 900: 2012
> Lumia 920: 2012
> Nano 7G: 2012
> 
> 
> 
> And of course you ignore the Sammy MP3 player.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> - Yes, the new iPod looks like the Samsung MP3 player from 2007.
> - Yes, the new iPod looks like a scaled up version of the 2010 iPod Nano, and also like a miniature version of the iPod Touch.
> 
> I think Apple could make the argument that they were just scaling existing designs for the most part, or combining some of their existing designs. Samsung could probably also argue that it looks very close to their design as well.
> 
> OCN members arguing that Apple has copied a less successful MP3 player is lame. About as lame as Apple arguing that everyone is copying their designs. Personally I wish the patent system would get reformed so technology isn't stifled, and so OCN will shut their trap about it already. I realize that many people are bringing up the subject just to make fun of how Apple is the pot calling the kettle black, but regardless, it's still old hearing about it.
Click to expand...

I am only arguing about it to show Apple fanatics how ridiculous their claims are.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *somebodysb2*
> 
> So many people love to forget the 6G.
> 
> Nano 6G: 2010
> Nokia N9: 2011
> Lumia 800: 2011
> Lumia 900: 2012
> Lumia 920: 2012
> Nano 7G: 2012
> 
> 
> 
> And of course you ignore the Sammy MP3 player.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> - Yes, the new iPod looks like the Samsung MP3 player from 2007.
> - Yes, the new iPod looks like a scaled up version of the 2010 iPod Nano, and also like a miniature version of the iPod Touch.
> 
> I think Apple could make the argument that they were just scaling existing designs for the most part, or combining some of their existing designs. Samsung could probably also argue that it looks very close to their design as well.
> 
> OCN members arguing that Apple has copied a less successful MP3 player is lame. About as lame as Apple arguing that everyone is copying their designs. Personally I wish the patent system would get reformed so technology isn't stifled, and so OCN will shut their trap about it already. I realize that many people are bringing up the subject just to make fun of how Apple is the pot calling the kettle black, but regardless, it's still old hearing about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am only arguing about it to show Apple fanatics how ridiculous their claims are.
Click to expand...

Most Apple owners likely don't even care about the dispute between Samsung and Apple. I own an iPhone and I don't really care about the disputes between Apple and its competitors, and I also don't side with one side or the other, I personally think that most of the disputes from all camps are frivolous. I guess it's just my personal preference that OCN would quit spending half of the news articles talking about the legal battles, and instead talk about interesting things like new tech, new software, etc.


----------



## VaiFanatic

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Most Apple owners likely don't even care about the dispute between Samsung and Apple. I own an iPhone and I don't really care about the disputes between Apple and its competitors, and I also don't side with one side or the other, I personally think that most of the disputes from all camps are frivolous. I guess it's just my personal preference that OCN would quit spending half of the news articles talking about the legal battles, and instead talk about interesting things like new tech, new software, etc.


^This.


----------



## DizzlePro

Looks just like it to me


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DizzlePro*
> 
> Looks just like it to me


Oh yea, Apple definitely copied Nokia and Samsung with their new iPod Touch design


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *somebodysb2*
> 
> So many people love to forget the 6G.
> 
> Nano 6G: 2010
> Nokia N9: 2011
> Lumia 800: 2011
> Lumia 900: 2012
> Lumia 920: 2012
> Nano 7G: 2012
> 
> 
> 
> And of course you ignore the Sammy MP3 player.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> - Yes, the new iPod looks like the Samsung MP3 player from 2007.
> - Yes, the new iPod looks like a scaled up version of the 2010 iPod Nano, and also like a miniature version of the iPod Touch.
> 
> I think Apple could make the argument that they were just scaling existing designs for the most part, or combining some of their existing designs. Samsung could probably also argue that it looks very close to their design as well.
> 
> OCN members arguing that Apple has copied a less successful MP3 player is lame. About as lame as Apple arguing that everyone is copying their designs. Personally I wish the patent system would get reformed so technology isn't stifled, and so OCN will shut their trap about it already. I realize that many people are bringing up the subject just to make fun of how Apple is the pot calling the kettle black, but regardless, it's still old hearing about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am only arguing about it to show Apple fanatics how ridiculous their claims are.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Most Apple owners likely don't even care about the dispute between Samsung and Apple. I own an iPhone and I don't really care about the disputes between Apple and its competitors, and I also don't side with one side or the other, I personally think that most of the disputes from all camps are frivolous. I guess it's just my personal preference that OCN would quit spending half of the news articles talking about the legal battles, and instead talk about interesting things like new tech, new software, etc.
Click to expand...

I own an iPhpne and I care


----------



## DizzlePro

I think we should stop this Apple vs Google vs samung vs nokia, Why? because we they can work together.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DizzlePro*
> 
> I think we should stop this Apple vs Google vs samung vs nokia, Why? because we they can work together.
> -imgsnip-


LOL. That's awesome.


----------



## bengal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Most Apple owners likely don't even care about the dispute between Samsung and Apple. I own an iPhone and I don't really care about the disputes between Apple and its competitors, and I also don't side with one side or the other, I personally think that most of the disputes from all camps are frivolous. I guess it's just my personal preference that OCN would quit spending half of the news articles talking about the legal battles, and instead talk about interesting things like new tech, new software, etc.


As long there are Android fanboys in this forum, your personal preference will never be a reality.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bengal*
> 
> As long there are Android fanboys in this forum, your personal preference will never be a reality.


It isn't about being an Android fanboy.

It is about the fact that Apple is a patent troll that sues everyone and their dead grandmother, and somehow wins some of the most ridiculous lawsuits. Then turns around and does the exact same thing they just sued another company for. Somehow this is OK with Apple fanboys. It doesn't make any sense....

Much like how Apple completely ripped off the "iPad" name and ignored the company that actually held the copyright/trademark to the name, blowing them off for a couple of years. Only offering to buy the rights to the name after enough noise about their blatant disregard for others protected property was generated.

Apple, from an ethical standpoint, is one of the worst companies on this planet, yet people don't care! They are suing people over rounded corners and the way you swipe your freaking finger. Yet companies like Google took the more mellow approach and developed technology and software that they give away free or license extremely cheaply.


----------



## WC_EEND

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> It isn't about being an Android fanboy.
> It is about the fact that Apple is a patent troll that sues everyone and their dead grandmother, and somehow wins some of the most ridiculous lawsuits. Then turns around and does the exact same thing they just sued another company for. Somehow this is OK with Apple fanboys. It doesn't make any sense....
> Much like how Apple completely ripped off the "iPad" name and ignored the company that actually held the copyright/trademark to the name, blowing them off for a couple of years. Only offering to buy the rights to the name after enough noise about their blatant disregard for others protected property was generated.
> Apple, from an ethical standpoint, is one of the worst companies on this planet, yet people don't care! They are suing people over rounded corners and the way you swipe your freaking finger. Yet companies like Google took the more mellow approach and developed technology and software that they give away free or license extremely cheaply.


Well put, +rep for you


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bengal*
> 
> As long there are Android fanboys in this forum, your personal preference will never be a reality.


----------



## cubanresourceful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bengal*
> 
> As long there are Android fanboys in this forum, your personal preference will never be a reality.


As long as there's any fanboys, your personal preference will never be a reality.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cubanresourceful*
> 
> As long as there's any fanboys, your personal preference will never be a reality.


I'd prefer it that way, actually. I like my preferences. I don't like others choosing for me more than it happens









(dual sided comment is dual sided)


----------



## cubanresourceful

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> I'd prefer it that way, actually. I like my preferences. I don't like others choosing for me more than it happens
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (dual sided comment is dual sided)


?

The comment is basically saying that, your personal preference will always be wrong, in the presence of a fanboy.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *cubanresourceful*
> 
> ?
> The comment is basically saying that, your personal preference will always be wrong, in the presence of a fanboy.


Well so far my preferences are more in niche markets than anything else, so yes.









Presence of fan's make no difference.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *AznDud333*
> 
> im going to steal apple's argument here
> but they're both rectangles! the homebutton is both circular, the form factor is similar and the music icon looks the same! apple copied samsung !11!
> taste your own meds apple.


If that was Apple's case they would have lost a long time ago. The Samsung and the iPod nano look nothing alike.
Quote:


> quit posting photoshopped comparisons, galaxy s was 0.5inches bigger and had a narrower formfactor


I just Googled for a Galaxy S vs iPhone image, I know nothing of it being photoshopped.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> Nice shopping. I'll cook a REAL comparison of the S and the iPhone when I get home. I'll also do one for the MP3 and the Samsung prototype. Seriously, if you care about metal borders, why don't you care about rounded eyes inside straight corners, rectangle within a rectangle?


I didn't photoshop anything, I got it off Google. "Rounded eyes inside straight corners"? What?
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> It isn't about being an Android fanboy.
> 
> It is about the fact that Apple is a patent troll that sues everyone and their dead grandmother, and somehow wins some of the most ridiculous lawsuits. Then turns around and does the exact same thing they just sued another company for. Somehow this is OK with Apple fanboys. It doesn't make any sense....
> 
> *Much like how Apple completely ripped off the "iPad" name and ignored the company that actually held the copyright/trademark to the name, blowing them off for a couple of years. Only offering to buy the rights to the name after enough noise about their blatant disregard for others protected property was generated.*


Can you elaborate here? I hope you're not talking about Proview Taiwan, because if you are you've got the facts twisted considerably.
Quote:


> Apple, from an ethical standpoint, is one of the worst companies on this planet, yet people don't care! They are suing people over rounded corners and the way you swipe your freaking finger. Yet companies like Google took the more mellow approach and developed technology and software that they give away free or license extremely cheaply.


Actually they aren't suing over rounded corners, or the way you swipe your finger. The one thing I notice about "haters" is that they oversimplify everything. If Samsung's only "infringement" was having a black front rectangle with rounded corners then Apple would have no case whatsoever. It's only in combination with a couple of other factors do they have any ground to hold. And since when do multi-touch patents not count as valid?

>>>>>

It does look like the Lumia, but not Samsung's MP3 player. Funnily enough you could argue that Samsung got the idea from the iPod, iPhone or iPod touch. However it looks like an evolution of the iPod nano, or a smaller iPod touch.


----------



## HowHardCanItBe

Okay guys, I know a lot of you are a little upset but lets not throw the kitchen sink at one another shall we?


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> If that was Apple's case they would have lost a long time ago. The Samsung and the iPod nano look nothing alike.
> I just Googled for a Galaxy S vs iPhone image, I know nothing of it being photoshopped.
> I didn't photoshop anything, I got it off Google. "Rounded eyes inside straight corners"? What?
> Can you elaborate here? I hope you're not talking about Proview Taiwan, because if you are you've got the facts twisted considerably.
> Actually they aren't suing over rounded corners, or the way you swipe your finger. The one thing I notice about "haters" is that they oversimplify everything. If Samsung's only "infringement" was having a black front rectangle with rounded corners then Apple would have no case whatsoever. It's only in combination with a couple of other factors do they have any ground to hold. And since when do multi-touch patents not count as valid?
> >>>>>
> It does look like the Lumia, but not Samsung's MP3 player. Funnily enough you could argue that Samsung got the idea from the iPod, iPhone or iPod touch. However it looks like an evolution of the iPod nano, or a smaller iPod touch.


I am talking about the Proview issue. Proview Internationale registered the trademark back in 2000, later Proview Electronics, one of their branches, sold the rights to a company called IP Applications Development. As it turned out IP Applications had very close ties to Apple, basically a shell company. Apple then purchased the rights to the name from IP Applications, except there was a problem! The original deal from Proview Electronics to IP Applications DID NOT include the trademark for the Chinese market!

Proview International approached Apple on the matter, and according to Proview they were met with "oppression, fraud and/or malice". Now of course Apple would NEVER have that type of attitude toward another company, not ever! Now, Proview knowing they still held the rights to the name in the Chinese market said "Screw it! We will sue!", so they did. Apple of course knowing they didn't have a chance of winning opted to settle, for $60 million, up from the $16 million they originally offered Proview. Though Proview originally wanted $400 million.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *5entinel*
> 
> Okay guys, I know a lot of you are a little upset but lets not throw the kitchen sink at one another shall we?


You say the kitchen sink good sir?

I believe Mr. Hasting of NetFlix has an extra...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31001_3-20066140-261.html
Quote:


> Hastings told analysts that Blockbuster was throwing everything at them but the kitchen sink.
> The next day, Hastings received a kitchen sink from Antioco.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> I am talking about the Proview issue. Proview Internationale registered the trademark back in 2000, later Proview Electronics, one of their branches, sold the rights to a company called IP Applications Development. As it turned out IP Applications had very close ties to Apple, basically a shell company. Apple then purchased the rights to the name from IP Applications, except there was a problem! The original deal from Proview Electronics to IP Applications DID NOT include the trademark for the Chinese market!
> 
> Proview International approached Apple on the matter, and according to Proview they were met with "oppression, fraud and/or malice". Now of course Apple would NEVER have that type of attitude toward another company, not ever! Now, Proview knowing they still held the rights to the name in the Chinese market said "Screw it! We will sue!", so they did. Apple of course knowing they didn't have a chance of winning opted to settle, for $60 million, up from the $16 million they originally offered Proview. Though Proview originally wanted $400 million.


That's not what happened.

Apple did buy the trademark from Proview Taiwan via IP Applications Development, which was an Apple owned company. But it did include the rights to the trademark in China. After the iPad became popular in China, Shenzhen Proview sued them for *several billion*, saying that Proview Taiwan (the parent company of Shenzhen Proview) didn't have the authority to sell the license for China because they owned the right to the trademark and thus it was invalid.

It was later found in a Hong Kong court that Proview had colluded with several other companies in an attempt to *extort money* out of Apple.
Quote:


> Wednesday's hearing focused on whether Proview Electronics, a Taiwan-based company, had the right to represent Shenzhen-based Proview Technology to sell the iPad trademark. Xiao Caiyuan, the attorney for Shenzhen Proview, said both Shenzhen Proview and Taiwan Proview are two independent companies and the contract signed between Taiwan Proview and Apple for the iPad trademark transfer on the mainland was invalid. Meanwhile, Apple's lawyers said Taiwan Proview was indeed the same entity as Shenzhen Proview and that Apple has the right to use the iPad trademark on the mainland. Proview has had some success in getting retailers to stop selling the iPad as the dispute wears on. A court said last week that was illegal.


Reference: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2012/03/01/no-resolution-in-apple-vs-proview-court-case/

Even though it was a part of the contract, the child company is claiming that the parent company didn't have the authority to sell a license to the patent.
Quote:


> Apple claims that it used a dummy corporation to purchase the Chinese rights to the iPad trademark in late 2009 as part of a broad deal with Proview's Taiwanese arm covering several markets and carrying a $55,000 purchase price. But Proview has argued that the Chinese rights were controlled by its Chinese arm and that the Taiwanese unit had no ability to sell them to Apple, despite the fact that corporate officers common to both units were involved in the deal.
> 
> Proview has since filed several suits against Apple, with reports of damage claims ranging up to $2 billion. For its part, Apple has been playing up a Hong Kong court ruling that found Proview and its subsidiaries had conspired to extort millions of dollars from Apple once it was discovered that Apple was behind the trademark purchase. Chinese courts have, however, yet to rule on the issue.


Reference: http://www.macrumors.com/2012/04/20/apple-and-proview-in-settlement-talks-over-ipad-trademark-in-china/


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> That's not what happened.
> Apple did buy the trademark from Proview Taiwan via IP Applications Development, which was an Apple owned company. But it did include the rights to the trademark in China. After the iPad became popular in China, Shenzhen Proview sued them for *several billion*, saying that Proview Taiwan (the parent company of Shenzhen Proview) didn't have the authority to sell the license for China because they owned the right to the trademark and thus it was invalid.
> It was later found in a Hong Kong court that Proview had colluded with several other companies in an attempt to *extort money* out of Apple.
> Reference: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2012/03/01/no-resolution-in-apple-vs-proview-court-case/
> Even though it was a part of the contract, the child company is claiming that the parent company didn't have the authority to sell a license to the patent.
> Reference: http://www.macrumors.com/2012/04/20/apple-and-proview-in-settlement-talks-over-ipad-trademark-in-china/


What, what? You realize that you essentially repeated what I said...

Apple purchased, through a shell company, the rights to a name. Except the deal wasn't legitimate for mainland China, and the owner of the protected property went after Apple for it. You simply added the part where Apple plays the helpless victim that is being "extorted".

It also doesn't matter if there is a "Parent" company or a "Child" company, so long as they are recognized as their own entity they can each have their own protected properties. Depending on how the business is structured a "Parent" company doesn't have the absolute right to just sell whatever the "child" company has. That child company very well could have assets the parent company can't touch.....

EDIT: The other fantastic thing about the entire saga was why did Apple feel the need to use a dummy corporation to make the purchase? Did they know that if they approached Proview as "Apple" and tried they would have been shot down or had to pay more, as the value of the name would have increased just by being purchased by Apple? Again, another underhanded and back-ally operation by Apple.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> EDIT: The other fantastic thing about the entire saga was why did Apple feel the need to use a dummy corporation to make the purchase? Did they know that if they approached Proview as "Apple" and tried they would have been shot down or had to pay more, as the value of the name would have increased just by being purchased by Apple? Again, another underhanded and back-ally operation by Apple.


The obvious reason is that they didn't want the world knowing they were developing a tablet. If Apple themselves bought the name it would be headlines the next day.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> What, what? You realize that you essentially repeated what I said...
> 
> Apple purchased, through a shell company, the rights to a name. Except the deal wasn't legitimate for mainland China, and the owner of the protected property went after Apple for it. You simply added the part where Apple plays the helpless victim that is being "extorted".
> 
> It also doesn't matter if there is a "Parent" company or a "Child" company, so long as they are recognized as their own entity they can each have their own protected properties. Depending on how the business is structured a "Parent" company doesn't have the absolute right to just sell whatever the "child" company has. That child company very well could have assets the parent company can't touch.....
> 
> EDIT: The other fantastic thing about the entire saga was why did Apple feel the need to use a dummy corporation to make the purchase? Did they know that if they approached Proview as "Apple" and tried they would have been shot down or had to pay more, as the value of the name would have increased just by being purchased by Apple? Again, another underhanded and back-ally operation by Apple.


Uh no I did not. Only some parts of our posts about the acquisition lined up, and the rest of it is completely different. You said that the original deal didn't include the rights for the trademark in China, but it did, only that Proview Taiwan didn't have the right to sell it because Shenzhen Proview owned it.

Apple is the victim here. Proview's behaviour is fraudulent, they planned to extort money from Apple as was found in the Hong Kong case.

1. It isn't Apple's fault that Proview Taiwan offered them the rights to the trademark in China when they didn't own it. As far as Apple knew they owned those rights and thus never had the chance to acquire them from Shenzhen Proview.

2. It was only after Proview was going bankrupt did they try to sue Apple, and that's after the iPad became largely successful in China, not immediately after they saw the infringement. And they tried to sue for two billion dollars.

3. From one of my quote's: Corporate officers common to both units were involved in the deal.

Again:
Quote:


> For its part, Apple has been playing up a Hong Kong court ruling that found *Proview and its subsidiaries had conspired to extort millions of dollars from Apple once it was discovered that Apple was behind the trademark purchase*.


And the most likely reason that they used a dummy corporation (which is as far as I know a common practice) is so that their plans to make a tablet were kept secret. It had been rumoured for years that Apple was working on a tablet... and then news they purchase the rights to "iPad"? Not good for them.


----------



## PostalTwinkie

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*
> 
> The obvious reason is that they didn't want the world knowing they were developing a tablet. If Apple themselves bought the name it would be headlines the next day.


That is what an NDA is for, the disclosure is easily hidden by one and holds the other company liable should it be leaked. So no, this wouldn't be why.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> You said that the original deal didn't include the rights for the trademark in China, but it did, *only that Proview Taiwan didn't have the right to sell it because Shenzhen Proview owned it*.
> Apple is the victim here. Proview's behaviour is fraudulent, they planned to extort money from Apple as was found in the Hong Kong case.


Do you realize how much sense what you are saying _doesn't_ make?

The deal with Proview Taiwan could not have included, "originally", the rights if Proview Taiwan didn't have the rights to sell it in the first place. This isn't the case of Apple being the victim, this is a case of Apple not doing their homework and/or trying to circumvent the actual rights holder.

As for "fraudulent behavior", please provide me the court ruling where Proview was found to be breaking the law...


----------



## Liquidpain

The Galaxy Note 2 will crush all. The end.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> That is what an NDA is for, the disclosure is easily hidden by one and holds the other company liable should it be leaked. So no, this wouldn't be why.


As soon as the rights to the trademark are transferred that information can be looked up.
Quote:


> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> You said that the original deal didn't include the rights for the trademark in China, but it did, *only that Proview Taiwan didn't have the right to sell it because Shenzhen Proview owned it*.
> Apple is the victim here. Proview's behaviour is fraudulent, they planned to extort money from Apple as was found in the Hong Kong case.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you realize how much sense what you are saying _doesn't_ make?
> 
> The deal with Proview Taiwan could not have included, "originally", the rights if Proview Taiwan didn't have the rights to sell it in the first place. This isn't the case of Apple being the victim, this is a case of Apple not doing their homework and/or trying to circumvent the actual rights holder.
> 
> As for "fraudulent behavior", please provide me the court ruling where Proview was found to be breaking the law...
Click to expand...

It makes perfect sense. The deal between Apple and Proview Taiwan included the rights to the iPad trademark in China, *so they sold Apple something they don't own*. I'm not saying that Apple owns the rights to it because of that, I'm saying Proview Taiwan's behaviour was fraudulent. Apple never had the chance to acquire the trademark from Shenzhen Proview because of that. As far as they knew they owned the rights to it.

Apple's actually arguing that Proview Taiwan and Shenzhen Proview are the same entity and thus the deal for rights in China was valid. Link about the Hong Kong ruling: http://www.macrumors.com/2012/02/16/ipad-issues-in-china-amazon-not-an-authorized-retailer-apples-victory-in-hong-kong-trademark-case/
Quote:


> While Chinese courts have so far ruled against Apple in the trademark dispute with Proview Technology, Apple has noted that it did win a court case on the issue in Hong Kong last year. The Wall Street Journal's report offers some additional details on that decision, which held that Proview and its subsidiaries had conspired against Apple in a scheme to extract more money from Apple.
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> The court said, in its findings, that Proview, its subsidiaries and at least one other company had combined together "with the common intention of injuring Apple," by breaching the agreement over the iPad name. The court, calling the event a conspiracy, further said Proview had "attempted to exploit the situation as a business opportunity," by asking for money.
> 
> "It is accordingly important that (Apple) is able to secure and obtain the China trademarks," the court wrote in its decision.
> 
> 
> 
> Proview reportedly failed to transfer the iPad trademark assignment in China to Apple as required by a 2009 agreement, instead demanding that Apple pay $10 million for the rights. Proview is now seeking as much as $1.6 billion in damages in Chinese courts.
Click to expand...

Strangely enough I can't seem to open the WSJ journal article in the link. I only see a small snippet. But maybe you can.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Liquidpain*
> 
> The Galaxy Note 2 will crush all. The end.


Things will get crushed alright.... when you stick it into the pocket of your skinny jeans and then sit down.


----------



## Liquidpain

LOL! I actually have no problems with my G-Note in my jeans. Even when I ride my motorcycle, I forget its there. I am 5.9 at 120 lbs so i am a small guy too.







This GS4 talk has my interest though.


----------



## Oupavoc

iPhone 5

This made me laugh so hard lol


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oupavoc*
> 
> iPhone 5
> This made me laugh so hard lol


Wow.... just wow. What ever happened to checking sources?


----------



## steelbom

Wow... the iPhone 5 has been preordered two million times in 24 hours. That's twice as much as the 4S last year.


----------



## Oupavoc

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *steelbom*
> 
> Wow... the iPhone 5 has been preordered two million times in 24 hours. That's twice as much as the 4S last year.


seriously thats only what you got from that!!!


----------



## Blackops_2

Got to admit the "holographic keyboard and holographic imaging" would sale me on it...


----------



## Miki

I'm not overly surprised by the numbers. A lot of people I know that own the iPhone 4 felt that the 4S wasn't worth using their upgrade on, and rather wait it out for the iPhone 5.


----------



## steelbom

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Oupavoc*
> 
> seriously thats only what you got from that!!!


What?


----------



## noobhell

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *PostalTwinkie*
> 
> It isn't about being an Android fanboy.
> It is about the fact that Apple is a patent troll that sues everyone and their dead grandmother, and somehow wins some of the most ridiculous lawsuits. Then turns around and does the exact same thing they just sued another company for. Somehow this is OK with Apple fanboys. It doesn't make any sense....
> Much like how Apple completely ripped off the "iPad" name and ignored the company that actually held the copyright/trademark to the name, blowing them off for a couple of years. Only offering to buy the rights to the name after enough noise about their blatant disregard for others protected property was generated.
> Apple, from an ethical standpoint, is one of the worst companies on this planet, yet people don't care! They are suing people over rounded corners and the way you swipe your freaking finger. Yet companies like Google took the more mellow approach and developed technology and software that they give away free or license extremely cheaply.


I think there are far worse corporations out there than Apple lol. Glencore, Foxconn, BP, Exxon etc.


----------



## kzone75




----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kzone75*


Ad comparing hardware of two devices, meet consumers who really don't care.


----------



## grizzlyblunting

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Ad comparing hardware of two devices, meet consumers who really don't care.


consumers who really don't care, meet OCN where hardware is the bottom line


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> consumers who really don't care, meet OCN where hardware is the bottom line


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Ad comparing hardware of two devices, meet consumers who really don't care.
> 
> 
> 
> consumers who really don't care, meet OCN where hardware is the bottom line
Click to expand...

That's a fair point. I guess what I was getting at is that they're creating an ad that almost nobody cares about (or at least an exceedingly small portion of the population). Apple might as well make an ad for them that shows the iPhone sitting on top of a 20 ft pile of $100 bills and the Nokia sitting on the ground, showing Nokia that it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things that certain hardware points on the Lumia might be better. The Lumia 920 seems like a great phone, and I owned 7 Nokia phones in a row, from 1998 to 2011, but it's not about the hardware for most consumers, they want the unified experience between hardware, operating system, first-party software, third-party apps, accessories, etc.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> That's a fair point. I guess what I was getting at is that they're creating an ad that almost nobody cares about (or at least an exceedingly small portion of the population). Apple might as well make an ad for them that shows the iPhone sitting on top of a 20 ft pile of $100 bills and the Nokia sitting on the ground, showing Nokia that it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things that certain hardware points on the Lumia might be better. The Lumia 920 seems like a great phone, and I owned 7 Nokia phones in a row, from 1998 to 2011, but it's not about the hardware for most consumers, they want the unified experience between hardware, operating system, first-party software, third-party apps, accessories, etc.


I can see it now: " iThingy.... 1 step closer to being rich".

It would sell like hotcakes...

tehe


----------



## grizzlyblunting

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> That's a fair point. I guess what I was getting at is that they're creating an ad that almost nobody cares about (or at least an exceedingly small portion of the population). Apple might as well make an ad for them that shows the iPhone sitting on top of a 20 ft pile of $100 bills and the Nokia sitting on the ground, showing Nokia that it really doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things that certain hardware points on the Lumia might be better. The Lumia 920 seems like a great phone, and I owned 7 Nokia phones in a row, from 1998 to 2011, but it's not about the hardware for most consumers, they want the unified experience between hardware, operating system, first-party software, third-party apps, accessories, etc.


I've never argued that most people don't want an iphone. I have an iphone 4 myself. The thing about this forum is it's context is largely an informed population. This is the reason you see such vast android support and growing WP7 support. iOS is stuck in 2008, and most people here replace $600 video cards twice a year for no real reason.


----------



## Schoat333

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kzone75*


LOL Samsung had the same thing with the GS3, didn't they?


----------



## grizzlyblunting

i have a real question about WP8

I don't have a facebook/ twatter etc. I don't use social media period. I have a real social life. Is there any purpose for WP8 for me besides a change in OS?


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> i have a real question about WP8
> I don't have a facebook/ twatter etc. I don't use social media period. *I have a real social life.* Is there any purpose for WP8 for me besides a change in OS?


Most people who use facebook/twitter have a "real" social life.

I dunno, what do you use your phone for?

IF You use your phone primarily(i.e calls/contacts/text) as a phone WP8 would be great for you.

"real social life"

lol.

I use both but I choose not to have a "real" social life. Sometimes being around groups of people is actually an extremely stressful affair.


----------



## grizzlyblunting

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> Most people who use facebook/twitter have a "real" social life.
> I dunno, what do you use your phone for?
> IF You use your phone primarily(i.e calls/contacts/text) as a phone WP8 would be great for you.
> "real social life"
> lol.
> I use both but I choose not to have a "real" social life. Sometimes being around groups of people is actually an extremely stressful affair.


By real I mean if I want to talk to someone I either go to their house, or call them if they are out of town. For events, I rely on personal invitations. I just have no use for Facebook besides putting my business into the intrawebz which is just foolish IMO.

Guess I'll have to give WP8 a go to see if I like it better than iOS then compare to android JB


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> By real I mean if I want to talk to someone I either go to their house, or call them if they are out of town. For events, I rely on personal invitations. I just have no use for Facebook besides putting my business into the intrawebz which is just foolish IMO.
> Guess I'll have to give WP8 a go to see if I like it better than iOS then compare to android JB


"In your face" would be better than "Real"


















just messen.


----------



## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *alexmaia_br*
> 
> I like the android, but what puzzles me is the sheer inability of some people to understand that the iPhone is a good option.


This. It's not for everyone (Looking more and more into it, I'd actually prefer a Note II now) but it is a very decent option.


----------



## noobhell

Hehe saw this on epicfail


----------



## alexmaia_br

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *noobhell*
> 
> Hehe saw this on epicfail
> 
> http://www.overclock.net/content/type/61/id/1054688/


Hahah,

I like apple and the iPhone, but I agree with this. This is just too much. I bought an extra data cable for my iPad from china. Works just fine.


----------



## Clairvoyant129

Quote:


> So you just enjoy playing an extremely partial devils advocate?


I won't lie, I prefer iPhones but at the same time I don't mind getting an Android phone. It's either the Galaxy S3 International or the iPhone 5 but since I'm located in the US, LTE would not work with the Galaxy phone.

OCN users can't accept that iOS is a good alternative option (and criticize everyone else who doesn't agree with them).


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> I won't lie, I prefer iPhones but at the same time I don't mind getting an Android phone. It's either the Galaxy S3 International or the iPhone 5 but since I'm located in the US, LTE would not work with the Galaxy phone.
> OCN users can't accept that iOS is a good alternative option (and criticize everyone else who doesn't agree with them).


GS4 will be coming out soon, so if you are considering, the costs would be around the same, subsidized or unlocked.

Personally, I'm waiting for the Galaxy Relay.

A physical qwerty slide out with more battery and similar specs to the current US GS3. The Gs2 I use does everything I need it to, so the Relay with the GS3's hardware will last me for 3-4 years no sweat.

AAND (this is the cherry on top) I'll be able to play emulators with the physical keyboard instead of the horrid on-screen keys.

A 32gb SD card and I'll have some of my favorite PS1, SNES, and N64 games at the ready.

I'm excited to say the least.


----------



## kzone75

Is this event still live?


----------



## Nocturin

I depends what time/dimension zone your in


----------



## kzone75

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> I depends what time/dimension zone your in


Well played, sir.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *kzone75*
> 
> Is this event still live?


Check the OP, it has the status.


----------



## grizzlyblunting

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> Some people here have their android phones shoved so far up their ass, they can't think rationally.
> Both the iOS and Android are good options. It all boils down to preference and the fact that people can't accept that is the hilarious part. So who's the sheep now?


For reference, I have an iphone 4, 3gs, and 1. I had a Mac Book Pro from '09.

My dislike of apple products comes from Apple's anti-evolutionary actions. It has done more to hold the consumer tech industry back than any other company IMO. THe iphone 5 has inferior hardware to existing phones, which is what OCN is really about at the end of the day.

This is a HARDWARE forum first and foremost







When it comes to hardware, Apple loses every time.


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> Some people here have their android phones shoved so far up their ass, they can't think rationally.
> Both the iOS and Android are good options. It all boils down to preference and the fact that people can't accept that is the hilarious part. So who's the sheep now?
> 
> 
> 
> For reference, I have an iphone 4, 3gs, and 1. I had a Mac Book Pro from '09.
> 
> My dislike of apple products comes from Apple's anti-evolutionary actions. It has done more to hold the consumer tech industry back than any other company IMO. THe iphone 5 has inferior hardware to existing phones, which is what OCN is really about at the end of the day.
> 
> This is a HARDWARE forum first and foremost
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When it comes to hardware, Apple loses every time.
Click to expand...

A lot of overclockers try to get the most out of cheaper hardware. It isn't always just about who has the best specs, you have to admit that some stuff on this site is about aesthetics as well, like case mods. Condoning hatred of Apple products just because they aren't the fastest thing out there, just because we're an enthusiast site, seems a bit harsh.


----------



## Nocturin

Cheap is good. I like cheap.


----------



## grizzlyblunting

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> A lot of overclockers try to get the most out of cheaper hardware. It isn't always just about who has the best specs, you have to admit that some stuff on this site is about aesthetics as well, like case mods. Condoning hatred of Apple products just because they aren't the fastest thing out there, just because we're an enthusiast site, seems a bit harsh.


True, but nobody says a GTX 560Ti is better than a GTX 690 just because it can achieve higher clocks.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> True, but nobody says a GTX 560Ti is better than a GTX 690 just because it can achieve higher clocks.


poor comparison.

680 vs 690 would be better.

remember always compare apples to apples, oranges to oranges.

560ti to the 570

ect.

or 560ti to the 580

or the 670 to the 690

ect ect

7950 to the 690


----------



## bengal

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> For reference, I have an iphone 4, 3gs, and 1. I had a Mac Book Pro from '09.
> My dislike of apple products comes from Apple's anti-evolutionary actions. It has done more to hold the consumer tech industry back than any other company IMO. THe iphone 5 has inferior hardware to existing phones, which is what OCN is really about at the end of the day.
> This is a HARDWARE forum first and foremost
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When it comes to hardware, Apple loses every time.


Not sure if stupid, or stupid. Inferior hardware? A dual-core performing equivalent or even beating quad-core chips is inferior?


----------



## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> A lot of overclockers try to get the most out of cheaper hardware. It isn't always just about who has the best specs, you have to admit that some stuff on this site is about aesthetics as well, like case mods. Condoning hatred of Apple products just because they aren't the fastest thing out there, just because we're an enthusiast site, seems a bit harsh.
> 
> 
> 
> True, but nobody says a GTX 560Ti is better than a GTX 690 just because it can achieve higher clocks.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you're getting at with that comparison. I don't think most people have said that the iPhone has better hardware than anything else. The CPU or GPU may be faster, for now, but it's tough to tell since the phone isn't out yet and benchmarks between architectures don't always mean a lot. What will be interesting to see is how quickly the iPhone opens up applications, browses the internet, etc, against the competition. Those are the kinds of statistics that are most useful to most consumers.


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *bengal*
> 
> Not sure if stupid, or stupid. Inferior hardware? A dual-core performing equivalent or even beating quad-core chips is inferior?


We've had this argument many times throughout the thread. Stop insulting others who do not agree with your assessments. It's not professional and it is detrimental to the quality of the forums.

Different applications, different optimizations, and finally, different OSes.


----------



## grizzlyblunting

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> poor comparison.
> 680 vs 690 would be better.
> remember always compare apples to apples, oranges to oranges.
> 560ti to the 570
> ect.
> or 560ti to the 580
> or the 670 to the 690
> ect ect
> 7950 to the 690


I don't think it's important as my comparison was a general abstract comparing an inferior product with 'better specs' to a superior product. But I digress...


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> I don't think it's important as my comparison was a general abstract comparing an inferior product with 'better specs' to a superior product. But I digress...
> Maybe if you READ and learn the truth, your ignorance will subside.
> I bet you believe everything you hear on CNN too? Because if it's said on TV or written on da intrawebz it must be true right?
> I bet you think the iphone 5 is the world's thinnest smartphone too huh? Apple said it so it must be true!


I'm just nit picking. I saw your point









If you stretch too far in a comparison, the idea that we want to convey is lost in the ridiculousness







,

Also, Truth is subjective.

Facts are not







.

The question then becomes: "When does the truth equal a fact?"


----------



## Clairvoyant129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> THe iphone 5 has inferior hardware to existing phones, which is what OCN is really about at the end of the day.
> This is a HARDWARE forum first and foremost
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When it comes to hardware, Apple loses every time.


YES! YES! Let's get rid of the AMD CPU section on OCN as well, I mean "when it comes to hardware, AMD loses every time." /sarcasm...









And really? The CPU is debatable but the GPU on the iPhone 5 is pretty much superior to every competitor out there.


----------



## 3930K

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> THe iphone 5 has inferior hardware to existing phones, which is what OCN is really about at the end of the day.
> This is a HARDWARE forum first and foremost
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When it comes to hardware, Apple loses every time.
> 
> 
> 
> YES! YES! Let's get rid of the AMD CPU section on OCN as well, I mean "when it comes to hardware, AMD loses every time." /sarcasm...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And really? The CPU is debatable but the GPU on the iPhone 5 is pretty much superior to every competitor out there.
Click to expand...

*points at Note II*


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *3930K*
> 
> *points at Note II*


Is that out yet?

Isn't it using the same quad of the s3?


----------



## grizzlyblunting

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> Is that out yet?
> Isn't it using the same quad of the s3?


Not yet


----------



## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> Not yet


The relay I wanted came out today!

Woot and It's only 150$!

With my employee discount I should get it for about $110 or so and I get 4g and get to ditch this wally world prepaid plan!

Totally OT but I'm excited for a new phone.


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## Clairvoyant129

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> It's not out yet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remember the iphone 5 was supposed to be a quad core? Then it was released and... wasn't. We will see soon for sure.


http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_note_ii_n7100-4854.php
Quote:


> OS Android OS, v4.1 (Jelly Bean)
> Chipset Exynos 4412 Quad
> CPU Quad-core 1.6 GHz Cortex-A9
> GPU Mali-400MP


Mali 400s are fast for sure but the PowerVR SGX543MP3/4s are definitely faster.


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## grizzlyblunting

Quote:


> http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_note_ii_n7100-4854.php
> Mali 400s are fast for sure but the PowerVR SGX543MP3/4s are definitely faster.


Seems legit, now if only apple had the same quality screen then all of the GPU power would go to good use.


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## lordikon

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_note_ii_n7100-4854.php
> Mali 400s are fast for sure but the PowerVR SGX543MP3/4s are definitely faster.
> 
> 
> 
> Seems legit, now if only apple had the same quality screen then all of the GPU power would go to good use.
Click to expand...

By quality do you mean size? A smaller resolution isn't always a bad thing, in this case it fits well in people's hands, and at the same time the lower resolution will net it a higher FPS. The original Motorola Droid suffered for this reason, it had over twice as many pixels as the 3GS, but pretty much the same GPU, which meant that it got much lower FPS on the same apps. Personally I would prefer an iPhone with a 4.3"-4.5" screen, but I don't expect Apple to produce one if their studies are showing that 90% of people are just fine with the 4" screen.


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## grizzlyblunting

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> By quality do you mean size? A smaller resolution isn't always a bad thing, in this case it fits well in people's hands, and at the same time the lower resolution will net it a higher FPS. The original Motorola Droid suffered for this reason, it had over twice as many pixels as the 3GS, but pretty much the same GPU, which meant that it got much lower FPS on the same apps. Personally I would prefer an iPhone with a 4.3"-4.5" screen, but I don't expect Apple to produce one if their studies are showing that 90% of people are just fine with the 4" screen.


No, I mean the super AMOLED is 19000x more beautiful than the retina AND it is bigger with equivalent PPI


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## Nocturin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> No, I mean the super AMOLED is 19000x more beautiful than the retina AND it is bigger with equivalent PPI


I would have to say the S-AMOLED and "retina" screens are round about the same quality.

Exaggeration aside.


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## Brutuz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Nocturin*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> I won't lie, I prefer iPhones but at the same time I don't mind getting an Android phone. It's either the Galaxy S3 International or the iPhone 5 but since I'm located in the US, LTE would not work with the Galaxy phone.
> OCN users can't accept that iOS is a good alternative option (and criticize everyone else who doesn't agree with them).
> 
> 
> 
> GS4 will be coming out soon, so if you are considering, the costs would be around the same, subsidized or unlocked.
> 
> Personally, I'm waiting for the Galaxy Relay.
> 
> A physical qwerty slide out with more battery and similar specs to the current US GS3. The Gs2 I use does everything I need it to, so the Relay with the GS3's hardware will last me for 3-4 years no sweat.
> 
> AAND (this is the cherry on top) I'll be able to play emulators with the physical keyboard instead of the horrid on-screen keys.
> 
> A 32gb SD card and I'll have some of my favorite PS1, SNES, and N64 games at the ready.
> 
> I'm excited to say the least.
Click to expand...

That's the one thing I miss from my HTC Dream, the keyboard; I don't get why people want on-screen instead...Sure, the phones a bit thicker due to it but the ability to type much more quickly and not have typos because touch screens aren't really the most precise input device are more than worth it IMO, it's so damn difficult to get a good slider phone in Australia on a plan.









What I'd love is a 5" sAMOLED+ slider phone with a quad core A15 at a low clock speed, 2GB RAM, 64GB internal memory (And SDXC support) and a physical keyboard with emphasis on battery life, I don't care if the phone is 1.5cm thick if it lasts ages on 3G/4G web browsing.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *lordikon*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *grizzlyblunting*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Clairvoyant129*
> 
> Some people here have their android phones shoved so far up their ass, they can't think rationally.
> Both the iOS and Android are good options. It all boils down to preference and the fact that people can't accept that is the hilarious part. So who's the sheep now?
> 
> 
> 
> For reference, I have an iphone 4, 3gs, and 1. I had a Mac Book Pro from '09.
> 
> My dislike of apple products comes from Apple's anti-evolutionary actions. It has done more to hold the consumer tech industry back than any other company IMO. THe iphone 5 has inferior hardware to existing phones, which is what OCN is really about at the end of the day.
> 
> This is a HARDWARE forum first and foremost
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When it comes to hardware, Apple loses every time.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> A lot of overclockers try to get the most out of cheaper hardware. It isn't always just about who has the best specs, you have to admit that some stuff on this site is about aesthetics as well, like case mods. Condoning hatred of Apple products just because they aren't the fastest thing out there, just because we're an enthusiast site, seems a bit harsh.
Click to expand...

This. Otherwise we'd also be bagging out everyone who got a 3930k over a 3960x, afterall the 3960x has an x and 3MB extra L3 cache...


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