# [SOLVED] HDTV ADVICE: I made a decision.



## fcman

I have the Panasonic 60st50 plasma and it is the best tv I've ever owned. Brightness is a non-issue unless you have it in a very very bright room. Heat is also a non-issue. Mine is in a room and I have never noticed the heat unless I'm almost on top of the unit. There is also really no burn-in any more, more like temporary image retention. I left my tv on over night on a static screen, big white box on black background. Ran the screen wiper for 15min and the "burn-in" was completely gone. LEDs are getting better but they still dont hold candle to the image quality of a good plasma. I think the big issue you're going to have is they are a little bit bulkier than an LED (although at that price range the LED tvs are not that thin either) and they are heavy. Go to your local video/audio store and compare them though. When I bought mine, the closest (image quality wise) LED tv was $1000 more. If contrast is one of your ABSOLUTE requirements, LED shouldn't even really be an option.


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## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *fcman*
> If contrast is one of your ABSOLUTE requirements, LED shouldn't even really be an option.


Good info so far. Thanks. REP+

The reason contrast is a big deal for me, is that it drives my wife nuts that during a dark scene you can hardly see anything at all on our current CCFL LCD. I just thought it was the way that it was filmed, but when we watched the exact same movie at a friends house on their plasma, the difference of that same dark scene was literally night and day. Even though it was a night scene, you could see the freakin film, instead of just dark.


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## Pip Boy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> Good info so far. Thanks. REP+
> 
> The reason contrast is a big deal for me, is that it drives my wife nuts that during a dark scene you can hardly see anything at all on our current CCFL LCD. I just thought it was the way that it was filmed, but when we watched the exact same movie at a friends house on their plasma, the difference of that same dark scene was literally night and day. Even though it was a night scene, you could see the freakin film, instead of just dark.


Plasma's remove that low contrast grey white wash you get on LCD. although top LCD's manage quite well now in this regard plasma is still king. But be quick, 2014 is the last year of the plasma, in fact most people will be selling older stock now as new models are reportedly no longer going to be made. By 2015 in theory OLED will be here and replace plasma but ironically and quite amusingly it suffers from similar screen burn


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## Fishinfan

I just bought a vizio 50" smart led tv for $649 at Bestbuy. After watching some blu-ray movies,I couldn't tell it wasn't a samsung. If you have direct light or any light coming from your windows like I have,then a plasma isn't a good idea because you'll have to close the blinds/drapes.

Here's the link to the tv in case your interested.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/e-series-50-class-50-diag--led-1080p-120hz-smart-hdtv/7171064.p?id=1218832133028&skuId=7171064&st=pcmcat193400050018_categoryid$abcat0101001&cp=1&lp=2


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## Jolly Roger

Well, I am starting to lean plasma a little bit. Ironically my friend, who owns the before mentioned plasma, said he wouldn't do plasma again. His is a bit older though. Like 5ish years or more. And it has a horizontal line of dead pixels. And maybe he is taking the excellent contrast for granted.

With plasma being phased out, would there be any negatives to getting one?


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## Fishinfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> Well, I am starting to lean plasma a little bit. Ironically my friend, who owns the before mentioned plasma, said he wouldn't do plasma again. His is a bit older though. Like 5ish years or more. And it has a horizontal line of dead pixels. And maybe he is taking the excellent contrast for granted.
> 
> With plasma being phased out, would there be any negatives to getting one?


I would say none.


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## Fishinfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> Good info so far. Thanks. REP+
> 
> The reason contrast is a big deal for me, is that it drives my wife nuts that during a dark scene you can hardly see anything at all on our current CCFL LCD. I just thought it was the way that it was filmed, but when we watched the exact same movie at a friends house on their plasma, the difference of that same dark scene was literally night and day. Even though it was a night scene, you could see the freakin film, instead of just dark.


Could it be your lcd?


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## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fishinfan*
> 
> Could it be your lcd?


Sorry, what exactly are you asking?


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## Jolly Roger

After deciding that I really do not have any use for the SMART aspect of an HDTV, I am leaving towards the plain versions of TVs. Specifically the Samsung PN51F5300. (I think I've been converted to plasma)


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## Furad

For someone on a budget it would be silly to get anything other than a Vizio.

http://www.amazon.com/VIZIO-E550i-B2-55-Inch-1080p-120Hz/dp/B00GKKI4JI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1392814917&sr=8-3&keywords=vizio+e+series+60

Vizio's offer superior bang for the buck hands down. The 2014 models are full-array back lit which will get you better contrast and black levels than any other LED in this price range. Also, plasmas don't get good till about $2000.

If you wait a few weeks I think you'll be able to find the 2014 60" model for under $850 as well. Do some research and you'll find that Vizio's rank high in LED tv reviews.


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## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furad*
> 
> For someone on a budget it would be silly to get anything other than a Vizio.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/VIZIO-E550i-B2-55-Inch-1080p-120Hz/dp/B00GKKI4JI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1392814917&sr=8-3&keywords=vizio+e+series+60
> 
> Vizio's offer superior bang for the buck hands down. The 2014 models are full-array back lit which will get you better contrast and black levels than any other LED in this price range. Also, plasmas don't get good till about $2000.
> 
> If you wait a few weeks I think you'll be able to find the 2014 60" model for under $850 as well. Do some research and you'll find that Vizio's rank high in LED tv reviews.


Well from what I have seen, and read, nothing LED (Thats not $2,000+) can even hold a candle to the Samsung PN51F5xxx series, which sits at $650-$800. That's in terms of black/white levels, viewing angle, and motion blur.

Having said that, the Vizio has me intrigued as it is full-array....


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## Furad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> Well from what I have seen, and read, nothing LED (Thats not $2,000+) can even hold a candle to the Samsung PN51F5xxx series, which sits at $650-$800. That's in terms of black/white levels, viewing angle, and motion blur.
> 
> Having said that, the Vizio has me intrigued as it is full-array....


I actually have a 50" Samsung Plasma. I gave it to my kids after I replaced it with a 60" Vizio. For some reason it doesn't handle fast motion at all. The picture get's really blocky and tiled. But I've read that that's common for samsungs.

I tried plasma because it was supposed to be superior and it really wasn't considering the cons. I mean, how good can it be when they're being discontinued and manufacturers are moving on to 4k LED?


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## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furad*
> 
> I actually have a 50" Samsung Plasma. I gave it to my kids after I replaced it with a 60" Vizio. For some reason it doesn't handle fast motion at all. The picture get's really blocky and tiled. But I've read that that's common for samsungs.
> 
> I tried plasma because it was supposed to be superior and it really wasn't considering the cons. I mean, how good can it be when they're being discontinued and manufacturers are moving on to 4k LED?


Well, you've certainly thrown a wrench in my gears. Since my last post I have been reading up on this model, and I admit it is looking pretty good. Plus even at 55 inches it is still basically the same dimensions as the 51 inch plasma!

DANG IT! I can't give you negative rep for this, so I guess I'll just do positive rep.









My VIZIO bias is a little unfounded TBH, I once was really considering them, years ago. I had even picked one out online, but when we went to the store to see it, it didn't look as good as the Philips we currently have. That combined with the online opinion of Vizio at the time helped my have a negative view. But the things that really turned me off to them seem to have been remedied in this model.


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## Furad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> Well, you've certainly thrown a wrench in my gears. Since my last post I have been reading up on this model, and I admit it is looking pretty good. Plus even at 55 inches it is still basically the same dimensions as the 51 inch plasma!
> 
> DANG IT! I can't give you negative rep for this, so I guess I'll just do positive rep.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My VIZIO bias is a little unfounded TBH, I once was really considering them, years ago. I had even picked one out online, but when we went to the store to see it, it didn't look as good as the Philips we currently have. That combined with the online opinion of Vizio at the time helped my have a negative view. But the things that really turned me off to them seem to have been remedied in this model.


Vizio's have come a long way. If you can get to a costco check them out in person.

Here's my 60" which is not the full array. I'll be replacing it with a 70" P series next year. (4k)

http://s617.photobucket.com/user/Furad/media/IMAG0718Custom_zps981db8f5.jpg.html

http://s617.photobucket.com/user/Furad/media/IMAG0715Custom_zpsf2f36223.jpg.html

Those are cell phone pics about 3' off center.


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## Furad

Oh and Vizio will dominate the 4k market towards the end of this year. Their 50" P series 4k is going to cost $1000. and all Vizio's will be full array going forward.


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## Jolly Roger

Thanks for the pictures. They look good.

A few questions for anybody out there:

How do full array LEDs compare to the black levels of plasma? Also, how is the light bleed?

And are these IPS panels on the vizio?
One of my major concerns is color. Where do plasma TVs rank when comparing colors to an led IPS screen?


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## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furad*
> 
> Oh and Vizio will dominate the 4k market towards the end of this year. Their 50" P series 4k is going to cost $1000. and all Vizio's will be full array going forward.


Well, crap again. I am now thinking about going for broke, and waiting for the P-series. After reading the specs, it sure seems like a nice set. I might as well spend the few extra hundred dollars and get what I will be happy with in the long run. (Still debating though)

Any news on the release date?


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## Furad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> Well, crap again. I am now thinking about going for broke, and waiting for the P-series. After reading the specs, it sure seems like a nice set. I might as well spend the few extra hundred dollars and get what I will be happy with in the long run. (Still debating though)
> 
> Any news on the release date?


Not that I know of. At CES they just said all the new models are ready to ship and will ship sometime this year.


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## Jolly Roger

Well, they are certainly stunning from what I can see; the specs are nuts. HERE is a link for anyone curious about them.

Ironically, these will still be cheaper than the Samsung P51F8500 Plasma. (Which is their TOTL)


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## Furad

Yep, I've been impressed with Vizio since the E (economy) series. I can't wait to get a full array 4k display next year. They also have the reference series ready ship but no pricing announced. Supposedly they use vizio spec custom panels which I think would be a first.


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## Jolly Roger

The reference series is down-right intimidating. Those are unheard of specs. I'm guessing $30,000 for the 120".


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## Fishinfan

You mention before that it was you tv that was too dark and your friends plasma is fine. So could it just be your tv?


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## Fishinfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furad*
> 
> Oh and Vizio will dominate the 4k market towards the end of this year. Their 50" P series 4k is going to cost $1000. and all Vizio's will be full array going forward.


I just bought a new tv and now you say this.


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## Furad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fishinfan*
> 
> I just bought a new tv and now you say this.


Shoulda payed attention to CES.


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## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fishinfan*
> 
> You mention before that it was you tv that was too dark and your friends plasma is fine. So could it just be your tv?


Yeah, that was kind of my point. That the plasma was much better at displaying the dark scenes.


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## Jolly Roger

I knew I shouldn't have put that 5th poll question in there..... :/


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## Chucklez

As someone who is currently selling TV's for a living right now at a retail store, I can tell you this; Plasma is pretty much a no go for anyone who doesn't want glare on their screen and or have a change of a burn in. Now bang for your buck right now its hard to beat some of LG/Samsung plasma's but in all honesty LED is the way to go, esp with like what was said earlier about the new Vizio's 4K coming out from CES (Which I knew someone from my store who went there to see all the new stuff and he said he was VERY impressed by the Vizio; said it practically looked like the Samsung's) its hard to say go out and buy a TV now when those will hit the market soon and blow everything away. I'm normally a die hard Samsung quality fan but lately its hard to knock on Vizio they have really stepped it up.


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## tonicgoofy

You should take a look at vizio. They have pretty much the best price / quality ratio. as for led vs plasma, they are fairly close, but plasma use more electricity and are bulkier in general.


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## Fishinfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> I knew I shouldn't have put that 5th poll question in there..... :/


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## Fishinfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tonicgoofy*
> 
> You should take a look at vizio. They have pretty much the best price / quality ratio. as for led vs plasma, they are fairly close, but plasma use more electricity and are bulkier in general.


+1 definitely take a look at Vizio,you'll be surprised.


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## Blackhawk4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *tonicgoofy*
> 
> You should take a look at vizio. They have pretty much the best price / quality ratio. as for led vs plasma, they are fairly close, but plasma use more electricity and *are bulkier in general.*


That's become less true year after year with Plasmas. With how thin they've become the "bulkiness" point has been negated. Take a look at the Panasonic ZT60 for example. It's as thin as some LED and LCD TVs out.


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## Foolsmasher

To be blunt, you need to spend about 3x the amount on an LED that can compete with even the ST series of Panasonic plasmas as far as picture quality goes. I have a 55gt30 and 65Vt50 and it honestly pains me to go to a buddy's place and watch a crappy LED after having those at home. Motion handling is awful, motion smoother is awful, screen uniformity is awful, and the blacks usually don't come close unless you spend a fortune to get a set with full local dimming.


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## Furad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Foolsmasher*
> 
> To be blunt, you need to spend about 3x the amount on an LED that can compete with even the ST series of Panasonic plasmas as far as picture quality goes. I have a 55gt30 and 65Vt50 and it honestly pains me to go to a buddy's place and watch a crappy LED after having those at home. Motion handling is awful, motion smoother is awful, screen uniformity is awful, and the blacks usually don't come close unless you spend a fortune to get a set with full local dimming.


That's pretty much completely false. Especially now that you can get a $600 Vizio with full array back lighting. (local dimming)


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## Jolly Roger

Well, I just sold the old TV last night, so we're without one for a bit...still not 100% sure what i want.


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## Foolsmasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furad*
> 
> That's pretty much completely false. Especially now that you can get a $600 Vizio with full array back lighting. (local dimming)


And according to the CNET review the dimming crushes blacks (low shadow detail) and the dimming effect is very noticeable (ie distracting) on many scenes. You get what you pay for guys. There is still no better bang for your PQ buck than a plasma.


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## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Foolsmasher*
> 
> And according to the CNET review the dimming crushes blacks (low shadow detail) and the dimming effect is very noticeable (ie distracting) on many scenes. You get what you pay for guys. There is still no better bang for your PQ buck than a plasma.


I tried to find that review on CNET but couldnt, could you link it for me please?

Anyone know what panel is in the E550i?


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## Foolsmasher

Here's a snippet from the 2013 Vizio e series review:
Quote:


> There are several side-effects of this deeper black level, however. In the case of the E500 some of the darker details in shadows were obscured, and in both E-series TVs iwe noticed an obvious dimming effect. With the very hill sequence the E-series dimmed a little too much and then lightened obviously, which could be a little jarring. As the camera swings around you see a figure approach Voldemort, and on the Vizio M-series and the E420 you can make out the detail on his vest, while on the E500 you can only see a black blob.
> 
> A expected the ST60 plasma suffered no obvious fluctuations in brightness and had a more natural picture, with deeper black levels, than any of the LCDs.


http://m.cnet.com/reviews/vizio-e550i-a0/35630376


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## Fishinfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> I tried to find that review on CNET but couldnt, could you link it for me please?
> 
> Anyone know what panel is in the E550i?


The vizio e series have full array, if that's what your are asking.


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## OcN13

LED full array FTW!


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## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fishinfan*
> 
> The vizio e series have full array, if that's what your are asking.


Yeah, I knew, I just wanted to see the effects of it. The proffesional reviews of the 2014 model E550i-B2 are really thin right now. Alot of the user reviews are positive, but Im trying to find a good pro review. There are almost none. No youtube reviews either.

I will probably go look at the Sammy and the Vizio in-store soon.

The youtube review of the Sammy I saw made me have major concerns.


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## Foolsmasher

I would really take this topic over to AVS forum. You'll get better and more informed help.


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## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Foolsmasher*
> 
> I would really take this topic over to AVS forum. You'll get better and more informed help.


I am only a member of one forum. (This one) And from my VERY LIMITED experience with AVS, I would say it is probably filled with plasma fanboys. Not that I'm opposed to that, I just don't want a biased opinion. I'm looking for a lot of diversity, which this site has.


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## Furad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Foolsmasher*
> 
> And according to the CNET review the dimming crushes blacks (low shadow detail) and the dimming effect is very noticeable (ie distracting) on many scenes. You get what you pay for guys. There is still no better bang for your PQ buck than a plasma.


Nice try but these new models started shipping this month... Not even any reviews out yet.


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## Furad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> I am only a member of one forum. (This one) And from my VERY LIMITED experience with AVS, I would say it is probably filled with plasma fanboys. Not that I'm opposed to that, I just don't want a biased opinion. I'm looking for a lot of diversity, which this site has.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> Yeah, I knew, I just wanted to see the effects of it. The proffesional reviews of the 2014 model E550i-B2 are really thin right now. Alot of the user reviews are positive, but Im trying to find a good pro review. There are almost none. No youtube reviews either.
> I will probably go look at the Sammy and the Vizio in-store soon.
> 
> The youtube review of the Sammy I saw made me have major concerns.


There's actually a very strong appreciation for Vizio on AVS.


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## Foolsmasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> I am only a member of one forum. (This one) And from my VERY LIMITED experience with AVS, I would say it is probably filled with plasma fanboys. Not that I'm opposed to that, I just don't want a biased opinion. I'm looking for a lot of diversity, which this site has.


Lol, ok. I would say the maturity level there is such that you won't hear the term "fanboy" thrown around like you do here. That's kind of my point but suit yourself.

Local dimming is just a band-aid to LCD technology. I highly doubt the 2014 models will completely fix the inherent issues with it but we'll see.


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## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Foolsmasher*
> 
> Lol, ok. I would say the maturity level there is such that you won't hear the term "fanboy" thrown around like you do here. That's kind of my point but suit yourself.
> 
> Local dimming is just a band-aid to LCD technology. I highly doubt the 2014 models will completely fix the inherent issues with it but we'll see.


Haha, I get your point. Just didn't think of a better word to describe it. In the end, I may find my way over to AVS.

Anything is going to be better than what I had. (The 40" CCFL LCD) My 3 IPS surround PC display isn't locally dimmed, and they aren't bad, but any local dimming would be an improvement over anything I've ever owned.

One huge killer for me is the plasma reflectivity. The review I saw on youtube of the Samsung Plasma was like looking in a dang mirror the whole time. I half expected to see MYSELF in the reflection it was so bad. And as you can see from my diagram in the first post, there is plenty of opportunity for reflection.

I plan on darkening those windows as best I can, but....


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## Foolsmasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> Haha, I get your point. Just didn't think of a better word to describe it. In the end, I may find my way over to AVS.
> 
> Anything is going to be better than what I had. (The 40" CCFL LCD) My 3 IPS surround PC display isn't locally dimmed, and they aren't bad, but any local dimming would be an improvement over anything I've ever owned.
> 
> One huge killer for me is the plasma reflectivity. The review I saw on youtube of the Samsung Plasma was like looking in a dang mirror the whole time. I half expected to see MYSELF in the reflection it was so bad. And as you can see from my diagram in the first post, there is plenty of opportunity for reflection.
> I plan on darkening those windows as best I can, but....


Yeah the matte screen on the Vizio is a nice touch if you're planning on a lot of daytime viewing. I work long hours so kind of a non-issue for me as I think the glass screens add a bit more punch to the image in an artificially lit environment.


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## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Foolsmasher*
> 
> Yeah the matte screen on the Vizio is a nice touch if you're planning on a lot of daytime viewing. I work long hours so kind of a non-issue for me as *I think the glass screens add a bit more punch to the image in an artificially lit environment.*


I can see that being a nice thing. Most of my viewing is at night. But when its not I may just lose my mind.

Seeing these two in person may be very eye opening in either way; positive or negative.


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## Furad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Foolsmasher*
> 
> Lol, ok. I would say the maturity level there is such that you won't hear the term "fanboy" thrown around like you do here. That's kind of my point but suit yourself.
> 
> Local dimming is just a band-aid to LCD technology. I highly doubt the 2014 models will completely fix the inherent issues with it but we'll see.


So tell me, if plasma is so great, why is it dying? Keep in mind I have a samsung plasma 50".

4k LED is going to be the new standard regardless of what you prefer.


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## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furad*
> 
> So tell me, if plasma is so great, why is it dying? Keep in mind I have a samsung plasma 50".
> 
> 4k LED is going to be the new standard regardless of what you prefer.


I know you didn't direct this at me, but I found something that might be an answer. Good conversation either way.

These are comments to an article found HERE.

Quote:



> *Gas0linE *// Nov 29, 2012 at 11:46 am
> 
> The reason LED sells more than a plasma, is because the average joe who walks into a place like BestBuy which has LED plastered all over the place and thinks that LED is the best because its newer. Most people who buy a TV is usually un- educated, but still care for picture quality. They are not at al familiar with off angle viewing, banding, motion resolution, color accuracy, in fact they get it out of the box and watch it in Dyanmic or "Torch" mode not knowing any better. IMO its not that people don't care about picture quality, its more on the line of un educated people. That is exactly why most home theater professionals will prefer a Plasma because it ultimately is the better choice for picture quality. Just because someone buy's a LCD/LED TV doesnt not at all mean they "do not care about picture quality" It just means they are not as educated in the different types of technology out there.












*John *// Nov 29, 2012 at 11:25 am

These Plasma vs. LCD discussions remind of the battle between VHS and Betamax. The latter recorded a better picture but VHS offered longer recording times with a slightly inferior picture. Guess who won. Obviously consumers don't care much about picture quality. VHS recorders became cheaper and cheaper because of economy of scale. Same thing happening with LCD TV, they are becoming a lot cheaper than plasma TVs.










*Gas0linE *// Nov 29, 2012 at 9:15 am

@Tom We can both agree to disagree here. I am referring to more high end TV's. Not your average 200-400 budget TV. (Black Friday TV) I'm sure no one is going to pop 2-3 grand down on a nice TV if they didn't care about picture quality. It's also why I said "Most" people, not "all" people.

Besides, your argument is irrelevant here. For the people who do not care about Picture quality, (which makes no sense to me if your going to buy a new TV) this article does not pertain to those individuals. Again, it's common sense that people are not going to spend 3k on a TV like a VT50 if they "didn't care about picture quality" I am not so sure I know of anyone who is in the TV buying market who doesn't care about picture quality to some degree. If your gonna spend any kind of money on a TV, if your smart, you should care about picture quality somewhat.

again, when I refer to "Most" people, I am referring to people that are spending 2 grand or so on a HDTV.










*Tom *// Nov 29, 2012 at 7:55 am

GasolineE said "Most people buy a TV for its picture quality."

I wish I could agree with you, but I don't think they do. If they did, more people would watch HD but even those who have that option through their cable or satellite system simply don't because they don't care about picture quality. If they did, there would (hopefully) be a lot less picture stretching. I work in the industry so have followed the arguments for years but I get my wakeup call everytime I go home to my parents or in-laws. Just last weekend my sister in law, who is my age and an intelligent person, told me she couldn't see the difference between the SD and the HD picture. I was astounded. I don't think she can't tell the difference, though. I think what she really meant to say is that she just didn't care.

The form factor is what sold people on HDTV flat screens. They just liked the way it looks.


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## Foolsmasher

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furad*
> 
> So tell me, if plasma is so great, why is it dying? Keep in mind I have a samsung plasma 50".
> 
> 4k LED is going to be the new standard regardless of what you prefer.


Too expensive to produce 4k plasmas, the jump to 4k LCD was much cheaper, thus more margin in their pocket. It has nothing to do with LCD being a superior tech. My next set will be a 4k OLED, but that will be a while.


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## Pip Boy

LCD's dont offer the motion resolution of plasma even 4k on LCD's only offer around 1280 lines horizontally of motion resolution, with 1080p sets offering typically about only 300-550 lines ! and yes when i say lines i do mean 1280x800 resolution on 4k, so that is something like 3840x1280p on motion yet im not sure if there is a negative impact on vertical also?

where as a good plasma can manage 900-1080p lines on a 1080p set sometimes a tad lower but usually full frame resolution.

This is why a 4k plasma would of been a good thing as you would see a lot more detail in motion rather than just in still / slow shots. which is how 4K is being shown at conventions to mask the issue or with Ridiculous input lag inducing 480hz frame interpolation which is useless for gaming.

Plasma is dead in 2014 according to reports from this years CES. So for great motion resolution, low'sih input lag and an enormous picture id recommend a projector such as an EPSON. The irony is Plasma's sales declined in the early years due to scaremongering about image burn. Then LCD got brighter and flatter wooing the crowds. Now with OLED you have the flatness, the decent motion (need to check if its on par with plasma) and the blacks but you have screen burn back.

people want OLED monitors, lets hope they fix it.. but it seems fairly inherent.


----------



## Jolly Roger

So I went to a few stores this morning. Best Buy and Walmart. Neither of them had the VIZIO E550i-B2. But they did have the A0 version, which is last years model. Much uglier than the 2014 (B2) model.

Neither store had the Samsung PN52F5500 but Best Buy did have the 5300 which is the "Non-smart" version. These two were side by side, and so I was able to at least get a decent comparison going.

Here is what I saw at Best Buy:

LED top/ PLASMA bottom (720p version of the 5300)





The white levels is what really shocked me about the plasma. So gray!

Here is a quick video of the LED and PLASMA (top right is the 2013 E series VIZIO, botom right is the PN551F5300)






Overall, I found the plasma MUCH darker than the VIZIO. (I know lighting, store settings, and etc effect this, but I had no idea it was this big of a difference.)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I went over to Wal-mart. And they didn't really have the best sample size either. But I was able to make some good observations.

They also had the last year VIZIO like Best Buy, but not the same Samsung Plasma. I was able to compare the Vizio to some random Samsung plasma though.

Again, on the plasma, darks were just gray, whites were also just gray. The plasma just had a bit of a blah feel to them. A blank LED screen was BLACK a blank PLASMA screen was GRAY, and a SHINY gray at that.





Plasma has a gray starry sky, and a washed out yellow.



Very gray whites on the plasma, just like at best buy.















Deeper blacks on the LED ????













The thing that I noticed about the plasma was that is had better color reproduction, but not by a lot. You have to look for it.

The motion blur was not as impressive as I though the plasma would be either. It was there I guess, but I had to REALLY look for it. The plasmas really didn't blow me away in that regard.

The blacks on the LED, although darker, did wash out and hide details in the shadow.

The plasmas seemed to give a more realistic picture, but that was only when it wasnt a dark or light scene where I was just aghast at how freaking gray and dim they are.

People say the heat thing isn't a big deal with newer plasmas now, with that in mind, I was actually very surprised about how much heat I did feel.

Viewing angles were noticeably better on the plasmas, but again not over obvious. And I had to get to some pretty extreme angles to really see a difference. And the LEDs were not unveiwable at those angles, just a "little hazy". And at angles where i would never even try to watch TV from, and angles that would be almost impossible to view from in the room its going in.

The plasma glare was pretty bad too. Pretty noticeable. Again, I will not be doing the majority of my viewing in light, but what about the times that I am?

With the LED I was comparing to the plasmas being an older version of the E550i-B2 I can only imagine these differences being more in favor of LED on the newer VIZIO. The blacks should be better and more detail should be shown. Viewing angles may be even better.

Design is a big selling point for me on a TV as well. Its trivial to some, but to me I want it to look good on the wall too. And after seeing the Sammy in real life, its is really just BLAH. Nothing overwhelming or underwhelming about it. It was ugly and plain all at the same time. Also it has a huge bezel compared to the newer Vizio.

The difference between 51" and 55" was a LOT more than I thought it was going to be. Much more real-estate comes in those 4 diagonal inches.

With all this being said, I am very much leaning towards the Vizio. I may be going to COSTCO today to see the Vizio in the flesh.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Just got back from COSTCO.

Now I am a little more unsure, because I have now seen true black.

They had the E550i-B2 and something VERY similar to the PN51F5500, they had the PN51F5350A. Which is essentially the same panel.

I really wish I could have turned off the lights and played with the display settings.

Either way, this is what I saw:

LED on the LEFT

PLASMA on the RIGHT











































This video REALLY shows the difference of the true black and LED black.






The contrast between the two are compelling, yet my question for plasma is still: WHERE ARE THE TRUE WHITES?

I am more torn now, having scene them together. Also, after seeing the Vizio, I question if the dynamic zones were activated or not.

The dimness of the plasma still gets me. If the store has the settings on the display "blown out" for display, what will it look like when I get it home and set up correctly, probably more dim?

Again, not a real difference in motion blur. Almost identical to me. Didn't see a huge difference. In fact, I don't think I could tell you in a blind test which was which.


----------



## hanzy

Its a tough decision that's for sure.

I am in the process of the same thing.

I may end up going with a projector.


----------



## Furad

Man, all the plasmas you posted looked super dull...


----------



## Blackhawk4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furad*
> 
> Man, all the plasmas you posted looked super dull...


They're in a place with lots of lighting and aren't even calibrated. What did you expect? They're never going to look great in those terrible settings haha.


----------



## Fishinfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackhawk4*
> 
> They're in a place with lots of lighting and aren't even calibrated. What did you expect? They're never going to look great in those terrible settings haha.


But one thing is for sure, the plasma in the one pic I could see the window reflection! Unless Jolly Roger is going to sit in his living room with the lights off then I would've picked the led right then and there.

Hey, jolly do you have a costco membership or a sams club one?


----------



## Jawswing

Plasmas tend to have a better price the last time I was in the market for a TV.
If I were to buy a new TV now, I'd definitely go LED. They're thinner and have less power consumption.
And I have had one plasma 'blow' on me. Had to have it repaired.


----------



## Furad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackhawk4*
> 
> They're in a place with lots of lighting and aren't even calibrated. What did you expect? They're never going to look great in those terrible settings haha.


Yes but same situation for both formats and in every picture he posted the LEDs looked better.


----------



## Blackhawk4

Of course they look better. In those lighting settings a LED TV will always look better. This really isn't anything new. Take either TV in to your room where it's your lighting then adjust the settings to better fit your area and you'd have a different picture. Whether it's LED, LCD or plasma, they're not going to look their best in a showroom at a costco, best buy, etc.


----------



## Furad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackhawk4*
> 
> Of course they look better. In those lighting settings a LED TV will always look better. This really isn't anything new. Take either TV in to your room where it's your lighting then adjust the settings to better fit your area and you'd have a different picture. Whether it's LED, LCD or plasma, they're not going to look their best in a showroom at a costco, best buy, etc.


That doesn't make a lot of sense. Costco isn't much brighter than say my living room in the middle of the day.

Are you basically saying LED's look great out of the box and plasma needs to be calibrated to the room? No wonder it's a dying tech.


----------



## Jolly Roger

All things aside. I really wish I could take both home and put them on the wall and see which is best. I feel like the plasmas white would pop a little more for me in low light. But not sure how much more.

If money was no thing this would be easier. But tuition costs a lot. And we just bought this house so...


----------



## Blackhawk4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furad*
> 
> That doesn't make a lot of sense. Costco isn't much brighter than say my living room in the middle of the day.
> 
> Are you basically saying LED's look great out of the box and plasma needs to be calibrated to the room? No wonder it's a dying tech.


No, I'm saying no matter what TV you get if you want a better picture you're going to have to calibrate it. Just because Costco isn't much brighter than your living room in the middle of the day doesn't mean that a LED TV would be perfect for him or for me or for anyone else. Everyone's got different lighting/placement for their TV. What settings you have for your TV that you think give the best picture are different from mine. Doesn't make your settings any better or worse than mine, they're just different. Calibrating a TV is to help give the best picture possible and in the end you calibrate it to a point that you are satisfied with.


----------



## Furad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> All things aside. I really wish I could take both home and put them on the wall and see which is best. I feel like the plasmas white would pop a little more for me in low light. But not sure how much more.
> 
> If money was no thing this would be easier. But tuition costs a lot. And we just bought this house so...


I think based on what you saw with your own eyes and given the advantages of LED, like design, power usage, heat output compared to plasma, the answer should be pretty easy.







Oh, not to mention no image retention after gaming.

I'm surprised the 2014 vizios are in store already... pretty cool.


----------



## Jawswing

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furad*
> 
> That doesn't make a lot of sense. Costco isn't much brighter than say my living room in the middle of the day.
> 
> Are you basically saying LED's look great out of the box and plasma needs to be calibrated to the room? No wonder it's a dying tech.


That doesn't make a lot of sense. Costco is more than likely a lot brighter than your room. Unless you have a really bright room.
A lot of companies tend to 'calibrate' certain TVs to optimal settings and others to bad settings, to try sell better.


----------



## Blackhawk4

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furad*
> 
> I think based on what you saw with your own eyes and given the advantages of LED, like design, power usage, heat output compared to plasma, the answer should be pretty easy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Oh, not to mention no image retention after gaming.*
> 
> I'm surprised the 2014 vizios are in store already... pretty cool.


Pretty sure we're not back in 2005. That whole image retention stance is outdated. As for the power usage that's not as big of an $ impact as you might think.
http://www.rtings.com/info/lcd-vs-led-vs-plasma/power-consumption-and-electricity-cost

Sure a LED will use less power, but it's not like a Plasma is going to cost so much in electricity use that it will break the bank.

As for design you might want to see how thin plasma's are today. Not like they're bulky like they used to be.

Heat output? It's not a oil heater it won't be making your room toasty.


----------



## Jolly Roger

I figure both of them would look better calibrated than they do in the store. They provably just pull them out of the box, plug them in and walk away. No one I've met at these stores know what they are taking about. I made the kid at best buy today feel like a fool I'm sure. (Unintentionally)
Another thing I noticed with the LEDs is the colors seem a little artificial. Like digital vibrance. Not a huge problem though because I have always preferred the colors to be on the high side of vibrant.
I noticed that the plasma colors were much more accurate and true to life when displaying people and scenery, but when displaying graphics, they really feel flat in the color department.

Also, there is another thing I noticed that hopefully somebody can explain:
When the screens were displaying the Costco logo that has the wholesale undeneath following the three horizontal lines. I noticed that when the image was completely still the lines on the LED would "dance" and judder around while the plasma lines were completely still. Not sure what's going on there...

Also to whoever asked, I have access to either sams club or Costco.


----------



## Furad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jawswing*
> 
> *That doesn't make a lot of sense. Costco is more than likely a lot brighter than your room. Unless you have a really bright room.*
> A lot of companies tend to 'calibrate' certain TVs to optimal settings and others to bad settings, to try sell better.


My house faces the south and with the curtains open it's pretty bright. and yes, I watched tv with the curtains open... because I have an LED.


----------



## Furad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Blackhawk4*
> 
> Pretty sure we're not back in 2005. That whole image retention stance is outdated. As for the power usage that's not as big of an $ impact as you might think.
> http://www.rtings.com/info/lcd-vs-led-vs-plasma/power-consumption-and-electricity-cost
> 
> Sure a LED will use less power, but it's not like a Plasma is going to cost so much in electricity use that it will break the bank.
> 
> As for design you might want to see how thin plasma's are today. Not like they're bulky like they used to be.
> 
> Heat output? It's not a oil heater it won't be making your room toasty.


As stated previously I do have a plasma that's maybe 3 years old that I gave to my kids...



Yes, it does get image retention. (I didn't say image burn) and yes, it does in fact make the room toasty. There's a noticeable difference in room temp when the plasma has been on for a while vs off. You can feel the heat radiating off the thing 2 ft in front of it.


----------



## Jolly Roger

I finally landed on LED. So that debate is over. Here is how I came to the conclusion.

A weighted pro/con list

1: Neutral

2:Somewhat important

3:Important

4: Very important

5:Vital

The following were rated based on how important each feature was to me. Features not listed were either not important enough or were a tie.

Price-3

Viewing angles-3.5

Color reproduction-4

Contrast, black levels-3.5

White levels-3.5

Risk of image retention-3

Heat-1.5

Power-1.5

3D-2

Brightness-3.5

Aesthetics-4

Whichever TV had the win in each category gets that value.

Samsung Plasma:9.5 VIZIO LED: 16.5

The VIZIO is the clear winner based on my criteria.

Now that that debate is over, I am stil a bit on the fence.

I have it narrowed down to two and maybe three options.

The VIZIO E550i-B2 or the VIZIO M551d-A2R. What are the real differences between these? I see that one is edge lit, and the other is full array, but why is the lower end one full array? I saw one of these in COSTCO, and the blacks seemed to be incredible. I would have to give it a serious look before I say either one was better though.

The only other option right now is the VIZIO P-series, but lets keep the debate between the two listed for now.

As a side note, I did a ton of research for sound bars and finally landed on THIS ONE. It has been getting huge praise from CNET as the best product of CES, and other high marks.


----------



## Furad

So, all of Vizio's models will eventually be full array this year. They're just starting with the E series. If you can wait longer the M series will be full array with more active zones than the E series.


----------



## Furad

Additionally, the P series will have more zones than the M series.


----------



## Jolly Roger

So the M-series in stores right now are not the 2014 model?

EDIT: They sure look like it based on THIS>

EDIT AGAIN: I see that they have similar designs, but different features


----------



## Jolly Roger

I saw HERE that the VIZIO M552i will retail at about $900 that is definitely doable. Just wish I knew a release date.

If that is indeed the price and features that they claim, I think my search is pretty much over at this point. If the release date is crazy delayed, I may end up with the E550i, but my room isnt very close to being remodelled yet, so I have time.


----------



## Furad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> I saw HERE that the VIZIO M552i will retail at about $900 that is definitely doable. Just wish I knew a release date.
> If that is indeed the price and features that they claim, I think my search is pretty much over at this point. If the release date is crazy delayed, I may end up with the E550i, but my room isnt very close to being remodelled yet, so I have time.


Sounds like a good plan.







I'd guess it shouldn't be longer than a few months.


----------



## GfhTattoo

my old plasma was hot, power drainer , it would heat up bed room , it was a 42 inch and input delay was bad, very bad, if i where to get a different tv now i would go that 4 k tv for 500 . or just a 50 inch led @ 120 INPUT screen, watch out all-most all are sublays. but the image did look great but input lag is a bigger turn off for me .


----------



## H3||scr3am

I didn't read the entire thread, but my question is why are you sticking to a 1080p tv? 1080 will be phased out/dead in a year or two, As newer Higher definition TVs start to take over the market. Myself I'm looking into 4K televisions, and up here in Canada the prices don't quite make sense yet, but for Americans, the pricing and distribution is in place.

50" 4K ultra slim 120hz TCL LED TV $705.51 w/ free ship :
http://www.amazon.com/TCL-LE50UHDE5691-50-Inch-Ultra-120Hz/dp/B00ES5Q6E2

OR

50" Seiki 120hz 4K LED TV $600 w/ no tax and $35 shipping:
http://www.sears.com/seiki-50inch-class-4k-120hz-led-ultra-hdtv/p-05771550000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=05771550000&kispla=05771550000P


----------



## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *H3||scr3am*
> 
> I didn't read the entire thread, but my question is why are you sticking to a 1080p tv? 1080 will be phased out/dead in a year or two, As newer Higher definition TVs start to take over the market. Myself I'm looking into 4K televisions, and up here in Canada the prices don't quite make sense yet, but for Americans, the pricing and distribution is in place.
> 
> 50" 4K ultra slim 120hz TCL LED TV $705.51 w/ free ship :
> http://www.amazon.com/TCL-LE50UHDE5691-50-Inch-Ultra-120Hz/dp/B00ES5Q6E2
> 
> OR
> 
> 50" Seiki 120hz 4K LED TV $600 w/ no tax and $35 shipping:
> http://www.sears.com/seiki-50inch-class-4k-120hz-led-ultra-hdtv/p-05771550000P?sid=IDx01192011x000001&kpid=05771550000&kispla=05771550000P


Well, the short answer is that the tech just isnt really up to snuff yet. Low refresh rates at 4k res. The price range I could afford is low quality, and to get the decent ones, I would have to spend $500+ dollars more.


----------



## chargerz919

I am personally about to upgrade to the Vizio M551d-A2R. It will last me until 4k sets are more widely supported. I really don't see a point in buying one right now unless you just have an abundance of money laying around.


----------



## Furad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chargerz919*
> 
> I am personally about to upgrade to the Vizio M551d-A2R. It will last me until 4k sets are more widely supported. I really don't see a point in buying one right now unless you just have an abundance of money laying around.


Are you waiting for the full array 2014 model?


----------



## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furad*
> 
> Are you waiting for the full array 2014 model?


@chargerz919 you should consider doing this... The 2013 model is edge lit garbage like everything else out there. Wait for the M552i-xxx. It is miles above the 2013 model in many aspects.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chargerz919*
> It will last me until 4k sets are more widely supported. I really don't see a point in buying one right now unless you just have an abundance of money laying around.


After research, I came to the same conclusion. 4k will be lot cheaper later, and there isn't much to utilize it right now. And don't even get me started on 8k.


----------



## chargerz919

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furad*
> 
> Are you waiting for the full array 2014 model?


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> @chargerz919 you should consider doing this... The 2013 model is edge lit garbage like everything else out there. Wait for the M552i-xxx. It is miles above the 2013 model in many aspects.
> 
> After research, I came to the same conclusion. 4k will be lot cheaper later, and there isn't much to utilize it right now. And don't even get me started on 8k.


I thought about waiting, but I really don't have a patience to wait for them to release the 2014 models. If I really think I need to get the 2014 model, I can always sell the 2013 model and get it towards the end of the year.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chargerz919*
> 
> I thought about waiting, but I really don't have a patience to wait for them to release the 2014 models. If I really think I need to get the 2014 model, I can always sell the 2013 model and get it towards the end of the year.


There are rumors that is just around the corner. There are commercials on youtube, and I have seen some speculate for this spring.

You could even argue that the 2014 E series (which is currently available) is more of an upgrade over a 2013 M series. Full array in all 2014 models. (If you can't wait.)


----------



## chargerz919

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> There are rumors that is just around the corner. There are commercials on youtube, and I have seen some speculate for this spring.
> You could even argue that the 2014 E series (which is currently available) is more of an upgrade over a 2013 M series. Full array in all 2014 models. (If you can't wait.)


I'd prefer to buy from best buy, as I can get the 18 months no interest, but they don't carry the 2014 E series yet. Amazon had a 3-6 week shipping wait and Wal-Mart would have to ship it in as well.


----------



## Furad

So kind of unrelated but... I was in costco tonight and compared a 2014 Vizio e series to a samsung LED. They were both 50", The vizio was like $640 and the samsung was $900.









I didn't bother to check if the samsung was full array but it just looked bad next to the vizio. The blacks on the vizio were actually pretty good with no blooming. At this point I don't know why anyone in the market for a new LED would buy anything but a Vizio.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furad*
> 
> So kind of unrelated but... I was in costco tonight and compared a 2014 Vizio e series to a samsung LED. They were both 50", The vizio was like $640 and the samsung was $900.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't bother to check if the samsung was full array but it just looked bad next to the vizio. The blacks on the vizio were actually pretty good with no blooming. At this point I don't know why anyone in the market for a new LED would buy anything but a Vizio.


I admit, that what Vizio has coming out soon is pretty impressive. They are doing a lot of things right currently. I am excited for the M-series. I joined up over on AVSforum and am following the 2014 VIZIO all models thread. Rumors are for May...


----------



## Furad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> I admit, that what Vizio has coming out soon is pretty impressive. They are doing a lot of things right currently. I am excited for the M-series. I joined up over on AVSforum and am following the 2014 VIZIO all models thread. Rumors are for May...


Nice.


----------



## Furad

My plan is to buy a P series next year but we'll see how that goes.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Well, the decision has been finalized. Barring some unforeseen event, the TV I will get will be the 55" version of the 2014 VIZIO M-series.


----------



## Furad

Nice, any word on AVS on when they're coming out?


----------



## Fishinfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> Well, the decision has been finalized. Barring some unforeseen event, the TV I will get will be the 55" version of the 2014 VIZIO M-series.


Nice. How much is it?


----------



## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furad*
> 
> Nice, any word on AVS on when they're coming out?


Not really. The one rumor I heard for the P-series is August, and May for the M-series.







Not sure why such a delay. People are ready to buy.

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fishinfan*
> 
> Nice. How much is it?


According to THIS, $899. But I expect Amazon to mark that down a wee bit. (That is for the 55") I had my hands on a price list for the rest of them at one point, but I can not find it again for the life of me.


----------



## jpdyson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> I had my hands on a price list for the rest of them at one point, but I can not find it again for the life of me.


The Vizio press release contains pricing for each model: http://store.vizio.com/news/vizio-announces-2014-e-series-and-m-series-hdtv-collections


----------



## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jpdyson*
> 
> The Vizio press release contains pricing for each model: http://store.vizio.com/news/vizio-announces-2014-e-series-and-m-series-hdtv-collections


Came here to post it when I saw your post. Thanks.

VIZIO M-Series Full-Array LED backlit LCD Smart TVs
(M322i) $329.99 (MSRP)
(M422i) $529.99 (MSRP)
(M492i) $699.99 (MSRP)
(M502i) $729.99 (MSRP)
(M552i) $899.99 (MSRP)
(M602i) $1,199.99 (MSRP)
(M652i) $1,499.99 (MSRP)
(M702i) $1,899.99 (MSRP)
(M801i) $3,299.99 (MSRP)


----------



## Jolly Roger

More rumors>>>>

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *DistractedJohn*
> 
> I was at Best Buy earlier today and 2 salesmen told me the M series will arrive between middle of march and end of april. P series will be shortly after. The P series 55 inch will be 1000. Naturally i took that info with a grain of salt...


----------



## chargerz919

Just pulled the trigger on the 2014 E550i-B2. I decided I didn't want to invest in a 3d tv right now. I don't want to spend the extra money on a 3D Blu-ray player for how little I would actually use it. It will be here Friday.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chargerz919*
> 
> Just pulled the trigger on the 2014 E550i-B2. I decided I didn't want to invest in a 3d tv right now. I don't want to spend the extra money on a 3D Blu-ray player for how little I would actually use it. It will be here Friday.


Great! Let us know how it goes. I am interested to hear a real first hand experience.


----------



## chargerz919

Will do. I really need to get my old sofa out of my apartment now to make room for all my new electronics! Lol


----------



## Fishinfan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chargerz919*
> 
> Just pulled the trigger on the 2014 E550i-B2. I decided I didn't want to invest in a 3d tv right now. I don't want to spend the extra money on a 3D Blu-ray player for how little I would actually use it. It will be here Friday.


Where did you buy it from? And some pics when you git it.

Jolly,this thread is getting so many posts,have you considered making a dedicated hdtv thread or club?


----------



## chargerz919

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fishinfan*
> 
> Where did you buy it from? And some pics when you git it.


I got it on walmart.com. I would have preferred to buy it from Best Buy for the reward points and to go towards my elite plus club goal, but they don't have it listed online yet. I think amazon has is available as well.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Fishinfan*
> 
> Where did you buy it from? And some pics when you git it.
> 
> Jolly,this thread is getting so many posts,have you considered making a dedicated hdtv thread or club?


Not a bad Idea. Does anyone know if one already exists? I'm thinking about an HDTV suggestion thread.


----------



## chargerz919

Just got a text telling me that my TV is finally in 4 days after they said it would be in. I'll be picking it up after work tonight, taking it home and popping in Titanfall!


----------



## Furad

Woohoo! I got Titanfall all loaded up on the PC last night.


----------



## Jolly Roger

Let us know how it is. I was looking at it the other day. Not sure I want to plunge for it yet.


----------



## Furad

What Titanfall? It's pretty much the most fun I've had gaming in years...


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## Jolly Roger

Yeah, titanfall. That good huh?


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## chargerz919

I had a ton of fun playing the beta, I was so jealous watching people play on twitch last night before I went to sleep. I have 4 1/2 more hours at work, then I get to go pick up my TV and stand set it all up, move my Xbox One, receiver and speakers over. Luckily, I'll be able to install Titanfall while I am assembling the stand.


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## Furad

I hopped on this morning before work and ran through the training sim.


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## chargerz919

I popped in the Gladiator blu-ray, it looks great for a 14 year old movie. I'll have to grab a more current movie this weekend.

Titanfall looks great so far, only played for about 30 minutes.

Sweet baby Jesus, I forgot how awful built in tv speakers were. I'll have to finish getting my living room back together tomorrow.





Such a thin bezel.


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## Furad

Wow that is a thin bezel... Looks great man.


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## chargerz919

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furad*
> 
> Wow that is a thin bezel... Looks great man.


Thanks! My pizza was delivered as I was setting it up, so I decided to be lazy and just watch hulu for the rest of the night. I'll post one last picture once I get the place cleaned up and everything moved over.


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## Jolly Roger

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chargerz919*
> 
> I forgot how awful built in tv speakers were.


That sucks. The new E series were supposed to have nicer upgraded 15 watt speakers. Apparently that didn't make much difference. Not like it really matters though. Mine will have surround.


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## chargerz919

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Jolly Roger*
> 
> That sucks. The new E series were supposed to have nicer upgraded 15 watt speakers. Apparently that didn't make much difference. Not like it really matters though. Mine will have surround.


They might be slightly better, but built-in speakers are what they are. I've been so spoiled recently with all my new audio gear that going back to those would just be unacceptable. I have M-Audio AV40s in my office at work, ATH-M50RD headphones on my computer for music/gaming and Polk Rti8's and a PSW505 in my living room.


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## Jolly Roger

Well yeah, when you compare it to that!


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## Jolly Roger

Well, the 2014 M series is starting to show itself. There are now three sizes available for purchase on vizio's store.


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## chargerz919

Happy hunting! I'm still extremely happy I pulled the trigger on the E series. Whenever the Xbox One and PS4 have 3D support, I'll have to trade up to the M.


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## Furad

The 2014 vizio's ditched 3D support.


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## chargerz919

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Furad*
> 
> The 2014 vizio's ditched 3D support.


What do you mean?

The E Series is the base smart TV. The M Series is their 3D line.


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## Furad

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *chargerz919*
> 
> What do you mean?
> 
> The E Series is the base smart TV. The M Series is their 3D line.


They removed 3D from the M series for 2014 to keep costs down and because they don't view it as profitable.


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## chargerz919

Interesting. Now I'm glad that I didn't wait for the M series. The E series is more than capable for normal use.


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## Jolly Roger

Well the M-series is almost completely rolled out now. The 55" hit Vizios site a couple days ago. Going to wait for amazon/costco before I buy though. And a few reviews too.


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