# [PCSX2]PCSX2 1.0 released!



## DiNet

It's time to play some tekken?


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## farmdve

Sorry to break it to you people, but a PS2 emulator when PS4 is right around the corner? Great that they did it, but...I'd rather have a PS3 emulator, since there are some games only for PS3 that aren't for PC.


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## kyle2194

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve*
> 
> Sorry to break it to you people, but a PS2 emulator when PS4 is right around the corner? Great that they did it, but...I'd rather have a PS3 emulator, since there are some games only for PS3 that aren't for PC.


Emulators have never been about playing modern games.


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## Azuredragon1

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve*
> 
> Sorry to break it to you people, but a PS2 emulator when PS4 is right around the corner? Great that they did it, but...I'd rather have a PS3 emulator, since there are some games only for PS3 that aren't for PC.


the amount of PC power to do that isn't out yet for consumers


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## Rubers

Yay!


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## Retnu16

I think it is time to break out Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2. I know they are childish but I love those games.


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## Monstrous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve*
> 
> Sorry to break it to you people, but a PS2 emulator when PS4 is right around the corner? Great that they did it, but...I'd rather have a PS3 emulator, since there are some games only for PS3 that aren't for PC.


There are probably more PS2 games that people want to play nowadays on PC, than PS3 games. Since most PS3's can't play them, this is a good way to do it for some people.

I know I want to play War of the Monsters again and I don't have a PS2 anymore.


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## Skoobs

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Azuredragon1*
> 
> the amount of PC power to do that isn't out yet for consumers


not sure if knows what he is talking about, or thinks a PS3 is more powerful than our computers...


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## Retnu16

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Monstrous*
> 
> There are probably more PS2 games that people want to play nowadays on PC, than PS3 games. Since most PS3's can't play them, this is a good way to do it for some people.
> I know I want to play War of the Monsters again and I don't have a PS2 anymore.


Too bad you need to own a ps2 to get the bios or else it's ILLEGAL!!!


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## venomblade

I still play Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix everyday on pcsx2, this is awesome news!


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## B!0HaZard

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skoobs*
> 
> not sure if knows what he is talking about, or thinks a PS3 is more powerful than our computers...


Knows what he's talking about. Emulating requires way more processing power than the original machine had. Which is one of the reasons why they just released a PS2 emulator.


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## Ragnarok

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skoobs*
> 
> not sure if knows what he is talking about, or thinks a PS3 is more powerful than our computers...


He knows what he is talking about. Running a game that requires similar power to that of a PS3 is not the same as emulating the hardware needed to run PS3 native code.

For example, it still isn't possible to emulate all PS2 games at full speed(or at all in some cases) on even the most powerful PC hardware out right now.

EDIT: wow beaten by so many people to this point


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## sumitlian

I am very sad, my CPU doesn't have instruction sets like SSSE3, SSE4/4.1/4.2. Hence I don't think even this new version would help my CPU to get up to 55-60fps in Tekken 5. Ain't I right ?


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## Atham

So how does this work so that it is legal. What do I have to do to emulate games legally?


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## tx-jose

time to bust out GOW!!!!

Love those games!!!


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## cdoublejj

I hope this works because 0.9.8 runs like broken.


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## Cannon19932006

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skoobs*
> 
> not sure if knows what he is talking about, or thinks a PS3 is more powerful than our computers...


Emulation takes a huge amount of resources, much more then the original hardware.


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## krytikul

time for some jak and daxter haha


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## ice-dragoon25

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *.:hybrid:.*
> 
> Emulating isn't illegal. Depends on what you emulate
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First you have to download a super-legal ROM/ISO from a super-legal site.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Google is your friend)
> Those linux roms...
> I wonder, if you own a ps2 disc, would it be legal to play it via emulator?


If you own a ps2 disc, and you play with it or you rip it yourself, it's legal. But first you have to obtain the bios legally...


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## Madvillan

Awesome, maybe I should break out my favorite PS2 Shooter BLACK and have some more goes.


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## Monstrous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Saffah*
> 
> time for some jak and daxter haha


Jak and Daxter, and Ratchet and Clank. Very tempted to buy myself a PS2 now that you've reminded me!


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## Bit_reaper

Quite a bit of an improvement over the old version I must say. Final fantasy 12 runs very smooth now even with upped resolution and AA and best of all no more graphics glitches. The audio still has some minor glitching but very acceptable never the less.


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## Rayleyne

Lolwut, Your telling me that an Ivy @ 5 and 1600mhz Ddr3 (16gb) and crossfire 7970s wouldn't have the power to emulate All the PS2 games at full speed?


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## Bit_reaper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayleyne*
> 
> Lolwut, Your telling me that an Ivy @ 5 and 1600mhz Ddr3 (16gb) and crossfire 7970s wouldn't have the power to emulate All the PS2 games at full speed?


Just a little while ago yes that would have been the case. Well actually running native PS2 resolution and no AA full speed was possible even with older versions off this emulator but even then you needed a really beefy system. Emulation is slow and that goes double for the PS2 due the the odd synced hardware configuration of the "Graphics Synthesizer" and the "Emotion Engine".


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## SilkyJohnson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Rayleyne*
> 
> Lolwut, Your telling me that an Ivy @ 5 and 1600mhz Ddr3 (16gb) and crossfire 7970s wouldn't have the power to emulate All the PS2 games at full speed?


I am wondering the same thing. How in the world can our modern day high end sandy/sb-e/ ivy processors not emulate a ps2? In theory id think any decent machine with one any of those processors would completely crush a ps2 or a ps3 in any comparable scenario. Anyone care to chime in and enlighten us?


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## Mkilbride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SilkyJohnson*
> 
> I am wondering the same thing. How in the world can our modern day high end sandy/sb-e/ ivy processors not emulate a ps2? In theory id think any decent machine with one any of those processors would completely crush a ps2 or a ps3 in any comparable scenario. Anyone care to chime in and enlighten us?


Very simple.

Emulation.

I don't think you people understand what it is.

They are emulating those systems.

Imagine running VM Ware, you know, a virtual windows, then running games in Software mode on the VM Ware.

You typically need 10x the power of the original system to emulate it properly.

PS1 emulator needs 800-1500MHZ CPU for full speed emulation.

It was only 33mhz.

It's not easy.


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## iZZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve*
> 
> Sorry to break it to you people, but a PS2 emulator when PS4 is right around the corner? Great that they did it, but...I'd rather have a PS3 emulator, since there are some games only for PS3 that aren't for PC.


Why do you want a PS3 emulator if your computer can't run it?


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## Monstrous

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SilkyJohnson*
> 
> I am wondering the same thing. How in the world can our modern day high end sandy/sb-e/ ivy processors not emulate a ps2? In theory id think any decent machine with one any of those processors would completely crush a ps2 or a ps3 in any comparable scenario. Anyone care to chime in and enlighten us?


Because your computer has to:

Run your operating system
Load all your files
Deal with all your interfaces

As it normally does, but then on top of that, it has to run software that replicates a different architecture of CPU, GPU and memory systems. That's a very hard thing to do, it would be like trying to play a Windows game on an old PowerPC Mac processor, in a running instance of Windows, within OS9 or whatever version it was back then.

It's a lot to do.


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## Mkilbride

Yes, and try playing SoTC.

Even @ 4.5GHZ and a GTX670 you can't maintain the 30FPS limit in that game at all times.

XenoSaga is another one that requires a minimum of a 4GHZ CPU, and even my old GTX470 would peak out @ 99% GPU usage in it and use over 1GB of VRAM.

And PCSX2 is actually well done, only Sony could do better and not by much.


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## Bit_reaper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SilkyJohnson*
> 
> I am wondering the same thing. How in the world can our modern day high end sandy/sb-e/ ivy processors not emulate a ps2? In theory id think any decent machine with one any of those processors would completely crush a ps2 or a ps3 in any comparable scenario. Anyone care to chime in and enlighten us?


As I said emulation is slow. This is due to the fact that in a sense a PC need to create a simulation of the PS2 hardware in order for the games to run. That then needs to be translated to directx so that our modern graphics cards can actually render the graphics. It's much more complicated and time consuming to do this compared to running PC native games that area all ready in directx or openGL format.

Think of it this way. Running a PC native game on a PC is like reading a book in your native language (Enligh for example). Running a PS2 game on a PC is like trying to read a book that's in a foreign language (Latin for example). Even if you have a dictionary its going to take you much longer to read the book that's in Latin em I right.


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## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mkilbride*
> 
> PS1 emulator needs 800-1500MHZ CPU for full speed emulation.
> It was only 33mhz.
> It's not easy.


Nowadays you can emulate a PSX on an 1GHz Scorpion (Snapdragon S3)


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## Mkilbride

PCSX2 devs said by 2020 PC's may be able to get to the PS3's menu's, but that's about it.


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## ThePath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mkilbride*
> 
> Yes, and try playing SoTC.
> Even @ 4.5GHZ and a GTX670 you can't maintain the 30FPS limit in that game at all times.
> XenoSaga is another one that requires a minimum of a 4GHZ CPU, and even my old GTX470 would peak out @ 99% GPU usage in it and use over 1GB of VRAM.
> And PCSX2 is actually well done, only Sony could do better and not by much.


SoTC is one of the most demanding games on PCSX2, but I think if you use speedhacks it would run on full speed


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## iZZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Artikbot*
> 
> Nowadays you can emulate a PSX on an 1GHz Scorpion (Snapdragon S3)


You can emulate PSX on a 222mhz PSP


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## Mkilbride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThePath*
> 
> SoTC is one of the most demanding games on PCSX2, but I think if you use speedhacks you run it on full speed


Nope, the developers said due to the nature of the game, full speed is most likely impossible. Even using speed hacks, it only reports 30 FPS, but it isn't.

And a PSP doesn't emulate PSX so much as runs it natively.


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## SilkyJohnson

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bit_reaper*
> 
> As I said emulation is slow. This is due to the fact that in a sense a PC need to create a simulation of the PS2 hardware in order for the games to run. That then needs to be translated to directx so that our modern graphics cards can actually render the graphics. It's much more complicated and time consuming to do this compared to running PC native games that area all ready in directx or openGL format.
> Think of it this way. Running a PC native game on a PC is like reading a book in your native language (Enligh for example). Running a PS2 game on a PC is like trying to read a book that's in a foreign language (Latin for example). Even if you have a dictionary its going to take you much longer to read the book that's in Latin em I right.


That cleared it up a bit. I never even considered the whole DX9/10/11 and open GL thing.


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## sixor

finally my [email protected] will be put to good use

sandy/ivys are awesome emulating ps2/gamecube


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## Telimektar

Seem like this forum full of people calling console gamers peasants and ignorant is full of people ignorant about emulation, ironic isn't it.


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## Atomfix

Can you play Playstation 1 games with this also?


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## jeffdamann

For comparison.

Zsnes' system requirements;

OS: Windows 95/98/ME
CPU: Pentium II (or equivalent) 233MHz (500MHz recommended)
RAM: 32MB (64MB recommended)
OS: Windows 2000/XP/2003/Vista
CPU: Pentium II (or equivalent) *266MHz (500MHz recommended)*
RAM: 64MB of RAM (128MB recommended)
API: DirectX v8.0a or later must be installed
Video: any video card that supports DirectDraw (acceleration recommended)
Sound: any sound card that supports DirectSound (acceleration recommended)

Actual SNES CPU;
Processor Ricoh 5A22, based on a 16-bit 65c816 core
Clock rates (NTSC) Input: *21.47727 MHz*
Bus: 3.58 MHz, 2.68 MHz, or 1.79 MHz

With just the information I showed you, it is clear to see that shoddy(zsnes) emulation takes around 20x(recommended) the power of the original machine.

Lets look at almost perfect SNES emulation.

*Opposable Thumbs / Gaming & Entertainment

Accuracy takes power: one man's 3GHz quest to build a perfect SNES emulator*
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/08/accuracy-takes-power-one-mans-3ghz-quest-to-build-a-perfect-snes-emulator/

Here are BSNES' System Requirements;

Intel Core 2 Duo or AMD Phenom processor.
Video card that supports Direct3D 9.0 or OpenGL 2.0.
Linux port: hardware-accelerated video driver with OpenGL or X-Video support.

So just for you to meet the system requirements on an emulator that *aims for accuracy on a 21MHZ machine, you at least need a 2.5 ghz dual core....*

Im doing a bad job of explaining this, but do you get where I am going?


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## Bit_reaper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atomfix*
> 
> Can you play Playstation 1 games with this also?


For that you should use the ePSXe.


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## iZZ

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atomfix*
> 
> Can you play Playstation 1 games with this also?


I think so. At least the PS2 played PS1 games


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## Mkilbride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iZZ*
> 
> I think so. At least the PS2 played PS1 games


No, it does not have PS1 compat. Just use a PS1 emulator, those achieved about 70% compatibility.


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## ice-dragoon25

Some people dont understand that a ps3 and a pc, is a different architecture... Pc use a x86 processor... Guess what, the ps3 use a Cell processor. It's like somenone said earlier, they don't speak the same language


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## Telimektar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *iZZ*
> 
> I think so. At least the PS2 played PS1 games


All PS2s have the PS1 hardware in it, that's why you could play almost all PS1 games on it without problem. You could however add a graphic filter to smooth textures and speed up loading times slightly.


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## Shrak

Wonder if this will play my Final Fantasy games better now. Last time I tried they worked pretty good ( usually the first to get support ), but they were still pretty buggy.

Time to go try.


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## OwnedINC

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mkilbride*
> 
> Very simple.
> Emulation.
> I don't think you people understand what it is.
> They are emulating those systems.
> Imagine running VM Ware, you know, a virtual windows, then running games in Software mode on the VM Ware.
> You typically need 10x the power of the original system to emulate it properly.
> PS1 emulator needs 800-1500MHZ CPU for full speed emulation.
> It was only 33mhz.
> It's not easy.


That's only partially true.

Emulation itself doesn't just magically take 10x the power of the emulated system, there's tons of factors that come into it.
But even then most of these things aren't really "emulators" they enchance the games in many ways compared to the originals
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Telimektar*
> 
> All PS2s have the PS1 hardware in it, that's why you could play almost all PS1 games on it without problem. You could however add a graphic filter to smooth textures and speed up loading times slightly.


Not even remotely true.


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## jeffdamann

Final Fantasy X was working fine like 3 years ago.


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## sumitlian

*The good thing with this version is that it can now utilize three cores. All older versions were not able to utilize more than two cores!*


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## IvantheDugtrio

This is great news considering how unusual the hardware is compared to normal computers. The PS2 had similar problems with the PS3 in terms of difficulty for developers to code games for it.
Quote:


> The specifications of the PlayStation 2 console are as follows, with hardware revisions:
> An SCPH-10000 motherboard
> An SCPH-30001 motherboard
> Graphics Synthesizer as on SCPH39000.
> Older EE+GS that does not incorporate system memory (Found in Older Charcoal Black Slim PS2s. (SCPH-70001).
> ASIC that incorporates the EE, GS, and system memory (found in silver slim PS2s. Model SCPH-7900x and later).
> 
> CPU: 64-bit[3][4] "Emotion Engine" clocked at 294.912 MHz (299 MHz on newer versions), 10.5 million transistors
> System memory: 32 MB Direct Rambus or RDRAM
> Memory bus Bandwidth: 3.2 gigabytes per second
> Main processor: MIPS R5900 CPU core, 64-bit, little endian (mipsel).
> Coprocessor: FPU (Floating Point Multiply Accumulator × 1, Floating Point Divider × 1)
> Vector Units: VU0 and VU1 (Floating Point Multiply Accumulator × 9, Floating Point Divider × 1), 32-bit, at 147.456 MHz.
> VU0 typically used for polygon transformations optionally (under parallel or serial connection), physics and other gameplay based things
> VU1 typically used for polygon transformations, lighting and other visual based calculations (Texture matrix able for 2 coordinates (UV/ST)[53])
> Parallel: Results of VU0/FPU sent as another display list via MFIFO (E.G. complex characters/vehicles/etc.)
> Serial: Results of VU0/FPU sent to VU1 (via 3 methods) and can act as an optional geometry pre-processor that does all base work to update the scene every frame (E.G. camera, perspective, boning and laws of movement such as animations or physics) [54]
> Floating Point Performance: 6.2 GFLOPS (single precision 32-bit floating point)
> FPU 0.64 GFLOPS
> VU0 2.44 GFLOPS
> VU1 3.08 GFLOPS (with Internal 0.64 GFLOPS EFU)
> Tri-Strip Geometric transformation (VU0+VU1): 150 million polygons per second[55]
> 3D CG Geometric transformation with raw 3D perspective operations (VU0+VU1): 66-80+ million polygons per second[53]
> 3D CG Geometric transformations at peak bones/movements/effects (textures)/lights (VU0+VU1, parallel or series): 15-20 million polygons per second[55]
> Actual real-world polygons (per frame):500-650k at 30fps, 250-325k at 60fps
> Compressed Image Decoder: MPEG-2
> I/O Processor interconnection: Remote Procedure Call over a serial link, DMA controller for bulk transfer
> Cache memory: Instruction: 16 KB, Data: 8 KB + 16 KB (ScrP)
> 
> Graphics processing unit: "Graphics Synthesizer" clocked at 147.456 MHz
> Pixel pipelines: 16
> Video output resolution: variable from 256×224 to 1920×1080 pixels
> 4 MB Embedded DRAM video memory bandwidth at 48 gigabytes per second (main system 32 MB can be dedicated into VRAM for off-screen materials)
> Texture buffer bandwidth: 9.6 GB/s
> Frame buffer bandwidth: 38.4 GB/s
> DRAM Bus width: 2560-bit (composed of three independent buses: 1024-bit write, 1024-bit read, 512-bit read/write)
> Pixel configuration: RGB: Alpha:Z Buffer (24:8, 15:1 for RGB, 16, 24, or 32-bit Z buffer)
> Dedicated connection to: Main CPU and VU1
> Overall pixel fillrate: 16×147 = 2.352 Gpixel/s (rounded to 2.4 Gpixel/s)
> Pixel fillrate: with no texture, flat shaded 2.4 (75,000,000 32pixel raster triangles)
> Pixel fillrate: with 1 full texture (Diffuse Map), Gouraud shaded 1.2 (37,750,000 32-bit pixel raster triangles)
> Pixel fillrate: with 2 full textures (Diffuse map + specular or alpha or other), Gouraud shaded 0.6 (18,750,000 32-bit pixel raster triangles)
> GS effects: AAx2 (poly sorting required),[53] Bilinear, Trilinear, Multi-pass, Palletizing (4-bit = 6:1 ratio, 8-bit = 3:1)
> Multi-pass rendering ability
> Four passes = 300 Mpixel/s (300 Mpixels/s divided by 32 pixels = 9,375,000 triangles/s lost every four passes)[56]
> Audio: "SPU1+SPU2" (SPU1 is actually the CPU clocked at 8 MHz)
> Sound Memory: 2 MB
> Number of voices: 48 hardware channels of ADPCM on SPU2 plus software-mixed channels
> Sampling Frequency: 44.1 kHz or 48 kHz (selectable)
> Output: Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround sound, DTS (Full motion video only), later games achieved analog 5.1 surround during gameplay through Dolby Pro Logic II
> I/O Processor
> I/O Memory: 2 MB
> CPU Core: Original PlayStation CPU (MIPS R3000A clocked at 33.8688 MHz or 37.5 MHz)
> Automatically underclocked to 33.8688 MHz to achieve hardware backwards compatibility with original PlayStation format games.
> Sub Bus: 32-bit
> Connection to: SPU and CD/DVD controller.
> 
> Connectivity:
> 2 proprietary PlayStation controller ports (250 kHz clock for PS1 and 500 kHz for PS2 controllers)
> 2 proprietary Memory Card slots using MagicGate encryption (250 kHz for PS1 cards, up to 2 MHz for PS2 cards)
> 2 USB 1.1 ports with an OHCI-compatible controller
> AV Multi Out (Composite video, S-Video, RGsB (SCART and VGA connector†), YPBPR(component))
> RFU DC Out
> S/PDIF Digital Out
> Expansion Bay for 3.5" HDD (Network Adaptor required, SCPH-10xxx to 5xxxx only)
> Ethernet port (Slim only)
> PCMCIA for PCMCIA Network Adaptor and External Hard Disk Drive (early models only)
> FireWire (SCPH-10xxx to 3xxxx only)
> Infrared remote control port (SCPH-5000x and newer)
> 
> ^† VGA connector is only available for progressive-scan supporting games and Linux for PlayStation 2 and requires a monitor that supports RGsB, or "sync on green," signals.
> 
> Disc Drive type: proprietary interface through a custom micro-controller + DSP chip. 24x speed CD-ROM, 4x speed DVD-ROM - Region-locked with anti-copy protection. Can't read Gold Discs.
> 
> Supported Disc Media: PlayStation 2 format CD-ROM, PlayStation format CD-ROM, CD-DA, PlayStation 2 format DVD-ROM, DVD Video. DVD5 (Single-layer, 4.7 GB) and DVD9 (Dual-layer, 8.5 GB) supported. Later models starting with SCPH-50000 are DVD+RW and DVD-RW compatible.


Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ps2#Technical_specifications

Normally much of the work the CPU does would be done by the GPU but not in the PS2's case.

It's good enough that we've been able to come this far for such proprietary hardware. That's why we've already been able to play Gamecube and Wii games on our PC's despite both of them being more powerful than the PS2. They have a much more standard hardware layout and don't rely on a bunch of processors scattered around doing specific tasks.

When PS3 emulation becomes available it should prove to be much easier than PS2 emulation simply because it's layout is much more akin to that of a normal computer (besides the 7 SPE's).


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## General123

Rachet and Clank? Yes sir.


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## Telimektar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *OwnedINC*
> 
> That's only partially true.
> Emulation itself doesn't just magically take 10x the power of the emulated system, there's tons of factors that come into it.
> But even then most of these things aren't really "emulators" they enchance the games in many ways compared to the originals
> *Not even remotely true*.


What isn't ?


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## paulerxx

Performance isn't much better than the last build from what I see. Running 3x native with AAx4 at full speed or 90% of full speed, playing DBZ Budoka II and Tekken 5.


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## Hyoketsu

Blimey! Awesome news! Time to head back into emulationland!









My main reason of trading my old CPU (Q6600 @3.0GHz) to my current one (E8400 @ 4.14GHz) was due to the quad often causing FPS dips during PS2 emulation. The trade was definitely worth it - the performance difference is night and day when only 2 cores are utilized. Hooray for stable 60fps along with pretty much all available eyecandy!








Can't help but be curious how the quad would fare now that 3 cores are supported, though


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## paulerxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu*
> 
> Blimey! Awesome news! Time to head back into emulationland!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My main reason of trading my old CPU (Q6600 @3.0GHz) to my current one (E8400 @ 4.14GHz) was due to the quad often causing FPS dips during PS2 emulation. The trade was definitely worth it - the performance difference is night and day when only 2 cores are utilized. Hooray for stable 60fps along with pretty much all available eyecandy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't help but be curious how the quad would fare now that 3 cores are supported, though


I had a [email protected] not too long ago, performance isn't much better over here. Although performance is way better on my Dolphin emulator which only uses 2cores...Logic? Not found!


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## Hyoketsu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paulerxx*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Hyoketsu*
> 
> Blimey! Awesome news! Time to head back into emulationland!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My main reason of trading my old CPU (Q6600 @3.0GHz) to my current one (E8400 @ 4.14GHz) was due to the quad often causing FPS dips during PS2 emulation. The trade was definitely worth it - the performance difference is night and day when only 2 cores are utilized. Hooray for stable 60fps along with pretty much all available eyecandy!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can't help but be curious how the quad would fare now that 3 cores are supported, though
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had a [email protected] not too long ago, performance isn't much better over here. Although performance is way better on my Dolphin emulator which only uses 2cores...Logic? Not found!
Click to expand...

Hm, I guess it might depend on the game. I can't make Xenoblade run fluidly on dolphin despite all my efforts. I guess I still haven't tried some performance setting variations, but still.

EDIT: were you comparing the performance of your e8400 to that of your 3570k? Then it would make perfect sense. An e8400 at 4.2GHz can pretty much completely max out any PS2 game via the emulator, as long as the graphics card is up to par as well. If the performance is maxed out and stable, the only advantage of a faster processor/more cores is lessened load.
Now, with Dolphin, things are different, as an e8400 doesn't seem to be cutting it with Wii games. An IB CPU is sure to make a very noticeable difference.


----------



## Blameless

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skoobs*
> 
> not sure if knows what he is talking about, or thinks a PS3 is more powerful than our computers...


He's correct.

Modern PC hardware is an order of magnitude faster than PS3 hardware, but is still an order of magnitude slower than it would need to be to emulate a PS3 with good accuracy.

It's no exaggeration to state that you may often need a system 100 times as powerful as that you are emulating, if you emulate the complete system to high levels of accuracy and write in high level languages.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mkilbride*
> 
> Imagine running VM Ware, you know, a virtual windows, then running games in Software mode on the VM Ware.


Virtualization and emulation are quite different, even if virtual machines sometimes emulate certain aspects.

VMware can run stuff at nearly full speed since it generally virtualizes hardware and doesn't emulate much (except GPU related stuff).

DOSBox on the other hand emulates a system and all it's components, and runs vastly slower, though can be tailored to a greater degree.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Monstrous*
> 
> Run your operating system
> Load all your files
> Deal with all your interfaces


This overhead is completely negligible relative to the emulation itself.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *jeffdamann*
> 
> For comparison.
> Zsnes' system requirements;
> OS: Windows 95/98/ME
> CPU: Pentium II (or equivalent) 233MHz (500MHz recommended)
> RAM: 32MB (64MB recommended)
> OS: Windows 2000/XP/2003/Vista
> CPU: Pentium II (or equivalent) *266MHz (500MHz recommended)*
> RAM: 64MB of RAM (128MB recommended)
> API: DirectX v8.0a or later must be installed
> Video: any video card that supports DirectDraw (acceleration recommended)
> Sound: any sound card that supports DirectSound (acceleration recommended)
> Actual SNES CPU;
> Processor Ricoh 5A22, based on a 16-bit 65c816 core
> Clock rates (NTSC) Input: *21.47727 MHz*
> Bus: 3.58 MHz, 2.68 MHz, or 1.79 MHz
> With just the information I showed you, it is clear to see that shoddy(zsnes) emulation takes around 20x(recommended) the power of the original machine.
> Lets look at almost perfect SNES emulation.
> *Opposable Thumbs / Gaming & Entertainment
> Accuracy takes power: one man's 3GHz quest to build a perfect SNES emulator*
> http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/08/accuracy-takes-power-one-mans-3ghz-quest-to-build-a-perfect-snes-emulator/
> Here are BSNES' System Requirements;
> Intel Core 2 Duo or AMD Phenom processor.
> Video card that supports Direct3D 9.0 or OpenGL 2.0.
> Linux port: hardware-accelerated video driver with OpenGL or X-Video support.
> So just for you to meet the system requirements on an emulator that *aims for accuracy on a 21MHZ machine, you at least need a 2.5 ghz dual core....*
> Im doing a bad job of explaining this, but do you get where I am going?


I'm glad you brought up BSNES as it illustrates how much power is needed to achieve full accuracy, rather than simply get playable results through various speed hacks.

However, you have the wrong processor speed bolded for SNES. NTSC clock rates have no bearing on the processor speed and the SNES CPU (the 16-bit Ricoh 5A22) is only 3.58MHz.


----------



## icanhasburgers

This is a video of GT4 i recorded playing the game using the Emulator with my own custom presets and settings, but generally you want VU stealing set to 0 and the EE Speedup set to 2-3 for almost permanent 60fps for GT4, however this setting could completely ruin another game, however nowadays that isn't so much the case as compatibility, fixes and huge speedups have made PCSX2 very good.

You'll notice it looks dark, the lighting isn't quite right and there isn't any proper reflections (and some general effects are missing). This is just the way it is i'm afraid with GT4 in Hardware Mode using GSDX, however if you use ZeroGS you get all the effects of the original game, but of higher quality if you choose to do so. Run the emulator using my main sig rig.

OP feel free to add this to the main post for people to get an idea of the PCSX2!


----------



## Awsan

and also the cell processor of the ps3 will make emulating games for pc harder


----------



## krytikul

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Monstrous*
> 
> Jak and Daxter, and Ratchet and Clank. Very tempted to buy myself a PS2 now that you've reminded me!


Both are such great games

Also, the new speed hack is working great! Made the irregular fps I was getting in Jak and Daxter completely dissapear and stay locked at 60







the emulated experience is amazing!! imho no need to buy a ps2


----------



## Socks keep you warm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Monstrous*
> 
> There are probably more PS2 games that people want to play nowadays on PC, than PS3 games. Since most PS3's can't play them, this is a good way to do it for some people.
> I know I want to play War of the Monsters again and I don't have a PS2 anymore.


You can't even do so, when i started installing this emulator and setting it up, it said to paste the PS2 Bios into the program, it even stated you cannot play games from the internet...


----------



## freddieja

I have been downloading and trying out the Automated Pcsx2 builds for awhile now, will definitely be downloading this, I can finally get to finish God of War 2 on my PC.


----------



## gerickjohn

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Retnu16*
> 
> Too bad you need to own a ps2 to get the bios or else it's ILLEGAL!!!


Eh.. Why is it illegal? I mean, My old PS1 died on me so I downloaded a PS1 Emu and just loaded my PS1 discs to the PC.


----------



## Shrak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gerickjohn*
> 
> Eh.. Why is it illegal? I mean, My old PS1 died on me so I downloaded a PS1 Emu and just loaded my PS1 discs to the PC.


The bios code is copyrighted by Sony. Which means downloading a bios = illegal. even if you own the same system as the bios your downloading. ( same concept as downloading movies, music, games ).

Dumping your own bios is perfectly fine though. You just can't share it.


----------



## Blooddrunk

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *gerickjohn*
> 
> Eh.. Why is it illegal? I mean, My old PS1 died on me so I downloaded a PS1 Emu and just loaded my PS1 discs to the PC.


I dunno about the PS1, but PS2 bios is copyrighted or whatever. If you have a PS2 its not that hard to get the bios.


----------



## sixor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Atomfix*
> 
> Can you play Playstation 1 games with this also?


NO

EPSXE + PETE PLUGINS OPENGL2


----------



## BlackVenom

Sounds pretty awesome... but as long as i got that big black box and a crt to play on.. i'll be forever young!








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skoobs*
> 
> not sure if knows what he is talking about, or thinks a PS3 is more powerful than our computers...


Not sure if knows that software emulates or thinks incompatible hardware emulates.
(Unless you've got a cell and rsx in your rig, you'll need much much more power than the ps3 has to run games via software emulation. Note how even the ps3 can't play all the ps2 games well.. even being official. Same with ps2 and ps1 games.)


----------



## TopicClocker

A bit off topic, but that Shadow of Colossus game looks amazing! I've never known about It, I wish I did all those years I could of been playing this on PS2 o.o


----------



## Awsan

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> A bit off topic, but that Shadow of Colossus game looks amazing! I've never known about It, I wish I did all those years I could of been playing this on PS2 o.o


two words EPIC GAME


----------



## windowszp

Time to play mgs2 & 3 now, thanks !


----------



## NoEffort

YAAAY, Now time to see if I can get a steady 60 FPS during chat scenes between Bentley and Sly in Sly 3








^_^


----------



## tubers

ahh home of the JRPGS


----------



## meetajhu

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Skoobs*
> 
> not sure if knows what he is talking about, or thinks a PS3 is more powerful than our computers...


To be more precise our current PC's are not even powerful enough to handle Android Java emulation even with native CPU emulation. Imagine PS2 and PS3! It requires 10 times the processing power. To emulate a 7800gtx we atleast need a GPU which comes after 10 years from now.


----------



## Tippy

You can find brand new PS2 slims for like ~$70-90 bucks nowadays and people tossing away their game collections for peanuts -_-


----------



## Mkilbride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tippy*
> 
> You can find brand new PS2 slims for like ~$70-90 bucks nowadays and people tossing away their game collections for peanuts -_-


And?

PCSX2 can run these games at like 4096 x 4096 with 4xAA and 16x AF and whatnot.

Looks amazing.


----------



## alawadhi3000

GT4 working flawlessly in the one arcade race I tried.


----------



## HMBR

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> A bit off topic, but that Shadow of Colossus game looks amazing! I've never known about It, I wish I did all those years I could of been playing this on PS2 o.o


it's a great game, but on the PS2 framerate was really bad (15fps or less) and with ultra low resolution...
so... better play it on the PS3 (the HD version) or PCSX2.


----------



## Mkilbride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *HMBR*
> 
> it's a great game, but on the PS2 framerate was really bad (15fps or less) and with ultra low resolution...
> so... better play it on the PS3 (the HD version) or PCSX2.


Yeah, the main coder for PCSX2 actually told me to get the PS3 version.

Because even on PCSX2, they just can't emulate it properly. And are still a good year away from it or more. And even then, meh

For 20$ you can get the PS3 version + Ico, done in 1080p with 4xAA.

Sure, PCSX2 could do better, but at least this one runs full frames. Usually I'd never buy a game I could emulate, but in the case of SoTC,, well yeah.


----------



## Shiveron

Oh my god Dark Cloud here I come


----------



## windowszp

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tippy*
> 
> You can find brand new PS2 slims for like ~$70-90 bucks nowadays and people tossing away their game collections for peanuts -_-


Why would I spend $70 on old tech when pcsx2 plays all my games at higher resolution. I have a logitech controller that's just like dualshock, honestly it's great. I been playing mgs2 for 2 hours perfectly at 60fps.


----------



## Shiveron

How are you guys enabling AA and stuff on this? I've had it for a few and already started playing some dark cloud but some of the text is really fuzzy (was a 640x480 native game).


----------



## TopicClocker

Well, It looks like It's time to dig out that Ol' PS2 and dump It's bios, it was such a great console with amazing titles.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mkilbride*
> 
> Yeah, the main coder for PCSX2 actually told me to get the PS3 version.
> Because even on PCSX2, they just can't emulate it properly. And are still a good year away from it or more. And even then, meh
> For 20$ you can get the PS3 version + Ico, done in 1080p with 4xAA.
> Sure, PCSX2 could do better, but at least this one runs full frames. Usually I'd never buy a game I could emulate, but in the case of SoTC,, well yeah.


Cool, but I've seen the PS3's HD versions of SOTC and amazing just isn't enough to explain it, It appears to have new shaders, possibly high res textures and a good stable 30fps, but textures and stuff look a lot clear on the PS3 also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_GLmE7ZBPE&feature=related

Apart from the newly added stuff can the PCSX Deliver performance and graphics similar to the PS3 with he PS2 version?


----------



## TopicClocker

The Game also looks and plays like no other game at the time on the PS2, Xbox or game cube


----------



## Shiveron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiveron*
> 
> How are you guys enabling AA and stuff on this? I've had it for a few and already started playing some dark cloud but some of the text is really fuzzy (was a 640x480 native game).


Nvm I figured it out. Added AllowHacks = 1 to my GDSx.ini then found the option for MSAA in the D3D11 config tab set it to 16 and scaled the resolution to 4x native and it looks splendid now. So pumped. I've been wanting to play some of my games here for a while now but haven't had the money to spare for a PS3 and couldn't find my PS2.


----------



## andrews2547

Going to download this and try GT3 and GT4








Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve*
> 
> Sorry to break it to you people, but a PS2 emulator when PS4 is right around the corner? Great that they did it, but...I'd rather have a PS3 emulator, since there are some games only for PS3 that aren't for PC.


That is a poor argument because there are some games on the PS2 that aren't on PC.


----------



## Photograph

PCX2 along with one of these guys to use my real Dualshock Controllers for $5 and I am set:

PS2 to USB Adapter:


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Photograph*
> 
> PCX2 along with one of these guys to use my real Dualshock Controllers for $5 and I am set:
> PS2 to USB Adapter:


You do know if you have a DS3 you dont need to spend money on hardware







DS3 Tool will let you emulate the DS2


----------



## roninmedia

Haven't touched this in a while. I first used it when it was version 0.9.2 and improvements have been steady along the way.


----------



## Photograph

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> You do know if you have a DS3 you dont need to spend money on hardware
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DS3 Tool will let you emulate the DS2


No PS3 or DS3 controllers in my home, my GameCube and PS2 are as modern as consoles get.


----------



## Mr Stabby

well if you believe the rumors then ps4 will be x86 which means pcsx4 will be out before pcsx3


----------



## AngeloG.

That's the most awesome news of this summer for me.


----------



## GTR Mclaren

Man my old PS2 broke...there is another "way" to get the BIOS ?


----------



## TopicClocker

I suppose, but possibly not legally -_- so not fair.


----------



## biltong

Guys the real reason for no PS3 emulators being around AFAIK is because nobody knows what instruction set the PS3 uses. It was never released to the public. There's no way to emulate something you know nothing about.

Of course you would need loads of grunt even if we knew how the hardware worked.


----------



## bad_haze

THIS EMULATOR IS AWESOME!


----------



## BlackVenom

I think i'll back up my games just in case my ps2 dies.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GTR Mclaren*
> 
> Man my old PS2 broke...there is another "way" to get the BIOS ?


Yes, but it's not to be discussed on OCN.


----------



## Cannon19932006

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *GTR Mclaren*
> 
> Man my old PS2 broke...there is another "way" to get the BIOS ?


4 words, Google is your friend


----------



## Mkilbride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *biltong*
> 
> Guys the real reason for no PS3 emulators being around AFAIK is because nobody knows what instruction set the PS3 uses. It was never released to the public. There's no way to emulate something you know nothing about.
> Of course you would need loads of grunt even if we knew how the hardware worked.


Same with the PS2.

Lots of reverse engineering happened with this.

As for Bios, there is another way, well, eventually.

Devs are working on custom, non Sony original Bios that will boot the system. Won't be illegal, somehow, they explained it once.


----------



## Bit_reaper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mkilbride*
> 
> Same with the PS2.
> Lots of reverse engineering happened with this.
> As for Bios, there is another way, well, eventually.
> Devs are working on custom, non Sony original Bios that will boot the system. Won't be illegal, somehow, they explained it once.


If the bios is made using "black box" engineering then is perfectly legal. Its the same way they got dx9 to run on wine.


----------



## duhjuh

Let me just chime in a moment before i go berserk here....THE PSX IS NOT THE SAME THING AS THE PS1 FOR THE LOVE >>THE PSX WAS JAPAN ONLY CONSOLE AND WAS MUCH DIFFERENT QUIT USING THE TERM PSX TO REFER TO THE PS1!
Thank you that is all you may go about your flame war


----------



## Bit_reaper

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *duhjuh*
> 
> Let me just chime in a moment before i go berserk here....THE PSX IS NOT THE SAME THING AS THE PS1 FOR THE LOVE >>THE PSX WAS JAPAN ONLY CONSOLE AND WAS MUCH DIFFERENT QUIT USING THE TERM PSX TO REFER TO THE PS1!
> Thank you that is all you may go about your flame war


Actually in Europe the The PS 1 was first marketed as Playstation but later the same machine was also referred to as the PSX. Later still the smaller version was marketed the "PS one" as it now shared the market with the Playstation 2.

But it was never actually called "PS 1" during it's active years so technically using the term "PS 1" is more wrong then calling it a "PSX".


----------



## Deluxe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *BlackVenom*
> 
> I think i'll back up my games just in case my ps2 dies.
> Yes, but it's not to be discussed on OCN.


It's actually totally legal to download the bios if you own the machine, not even gray area.
Same if your discs are scratched, it's not illegal to download them as long as you own the original.


----------



## For_the_moves

Man, this is such awesome news. I hope my system is able to run it. Finally, I may be able to beat Shadow of the Colossus and play a few games that I had in shrink wrap for a few years now.









What's the best way of creating an iso for use with the emulator? I remember there being some special requirements for creating a PS(1) iso.


----------



## Shrak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deluxe*
> 
> It's actually totally legal to download the bios if you own the machine, not even gray area.
> Same if your discs are scratched, it's not illegal to download them as long as you own the original.


So wrong it's not even funny. Just because you own a physical device does not mean you are free to download a digital copy without direct consent from the copyright holder. The BIOS is copyright Sony and IS illegal to download. This is why most emulator sites that provide the pcsx2 emulator tell you to dump your own or find the BIOS somewhere else. Because it IS illegal and they have been confronted about it for hosting them previously.

Same for Games, Movies, Music, and pretty much everything concerning computers under copyright protection.

You own a Windows key? Great! Microsoft still won't give you a link to an ISO. As most companies will refuse as well.


----------



## Deluxe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shrak*
> 
> So wrong it's not even funny. Just because you own a physical device does not mean you are free to download a digital copy without direct consent from the copyright holder. The BIOS is copyright Sony and IS illegal to download. This is why most emulator sites that provide the pcsx2 emulator tell you to dump your own or find the BIOS somewhere else. Because it IS illegal and they have been confronted about it for hosting them previously.
> Same for Games, Movies, Music, and pretty much everything concerning computers under copyright protection.
> You own a Windows key? Great! Microsoft still won't give you a link to an ISO. As most companies will refuse as well.


You are misinformed, downloading a Windows ISO and and using your key with it is completely legal.
You don't actually pay for the disc, but for the license to use the software on that disc.
As long as you own these licenses, you are allowed to download them from wherever you want.


----------



## Shrak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deluxe*
> 
> You are misinformed, downloading a Windows ISO and and using your key with it is completely legal.
> You don't actually pay for the disc, but for the license to use the software on that disc.


Using your own key with a legally obtained disc is perfectly fine. Downloading something you technically don't own is illegal. It's not even a debate.

Microsoft will send you more discs before they give you an official iso download link.


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deluxe*
> 
> You are misinformed, downloading a Windows ISO and and using your key with it is completely legal.
> You don't actually pay for the disc, but for the license to use the software on that disc.
> As long as you own these licenses, you are allowed to download them from wherever you want.


Yup, Microsoft even offer software that will help you create a bootable USB flash drive so you can install W7 that way instead of using the CD for whatever reason.


----------



## Deluxe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shrak*
> 
> Using your own key with a legally obtained disc is perfectly fine. Downloading something you technically don't own is illegal. It's not even a debate.


Who said anything about something you don't technically own? If you own a PS2, you own the hardware and software on that machine.
If you want a copy of that software, it is legal.

There is no way to know for someone that hosts bios files if you actually have the license, thats why Sony didn't like that.
But like I said, it's legal to download that bios if you own a PS2


----------



## Fullmetalaj0

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Retnu16*
> 
> I think it is time to break out Kingdom Hearts 1 and 2. I know they are childish but I love those games.


I just got done 100% completing KH2 Final Mix with the English patch installed. Game is so much better then the original with new info and cutscenes and ALOT more fights.


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shrak*
> 
> Using your own key with a legally obtained disc is perfectly fine. Downloading something you technically don't own is illegal. It's not even a debate.
> Microsoft will send you more discs before they give you an official iso download link.


http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/shop/download-windows-7

Your argument is invalid.


----------



## Deluxe

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/shop/download-windows-7
> Your argument is invalid.


Win


----------



## Shrak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/shop/download-windows-7
> Your argument is invalid.


Which is a link to BUY windows. You can only download from there if you have bought a key from the Windows store. Went through that with Microsoft already a few time for about a week straight, to get a new disc for my girlfriends netbook. Came to the conclusion that Microsoft is incompetent, as their flow chart leads you in circles.









And they only help users create bootable usb media with iso's downloaded from the Windows store.


----------



## TopicClocker

Just a question concerning PSCX Emulation, I've been attempting to run Shadow of the Collusus but the graphics happen to be pixelated, the performance is "meh" I suppose I can sort that out but what's bugging me is the pixelation of the graphics, has anyone got a clue why this could be the case?


----------



## airisom2

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> Just a question concerning PSCX Emulation, I've been attempting to run Shadow of the Collusus but the graphics happen to be pixelated, the performance is "meh" I suppose I can sort that out but what's bugging me is the pixelation of the graphics, has anyone got a clue why this could be the case?


You are running the ps2's internal resolution. If you go to the video plugin settings on pcsx2 (config->video (gs)->plugin settings), you can change the internal resolution up to 6x the native resolution and a lot more. If your performance is "meh" already it will be unplayable if you up the resolution. Fully enabling texture filtering and enabling MSAA will get rid of the pixelation too at the cost of performance.


----------



## ZealotKi11er

How do you apply AA? I cant find the setting anywhere.


----------



## Shiveron

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shrak*
> 
> Using your own key with a legally obtained disc is perfectly fine. Downloading something you technically don't own is illegal. It's not even a debate.
> Microsoft will send you more discs before they give you an official iso download link.


Wrong. Microsoft clear as day provides links to their iso's for anyone to download on the digital river website. They are microsoft's official digital distributor and i've verified they are legal with a MS rep before downloading them. Just like any copy of windows they will run for 30 days before they must be activated with a real key which costs as much as buying an oem disc from newegg. The operating system I am on right now was installed via usb of one of these iso downloads and verified over the phone with a MS rep that my key did indeed register with them perfectly and legally.

http://www.w7forums.com/official-windows-7-sp1-iso-image-downloads-t12325.html
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ZealotKi11er*
> 
> How do you apply AA? I cant find the setting anywhere.


Go to config at the top and open Plugin/Bios Selector, hit configure next to the GS drop down menu, then hit the configure button down in the Hardware Settings area in the box that pops up. If the option isn't there, go to your my documents folder, find the PCSX2 folder, go in the ini folder, edit GSdx.ini and add the line AllowHacks=1 to the bottom and save it and the option should be in the Hardware Settings box previously mentioned.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *airisom2*
> 
> You are running the ps2's internal resolution. If you go to the video plugin settings on pcsx2 (config->video (gs)->plugin settings), you can change the internal resolution up to 6x the native resolution and a lot more. If your performance is "meh" already it will be unplayable if you up the resolution. Fully enabling texture filtering and enabling MSAA will get rid of the pixelation too at the cost of performance.


I see, I've managed to fix it by choosing the GSDX I downloaded from here, I'm gonna get some sleep and try it out tomorrow, No more pixelation now








http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-GSdx

I'll try and use MSAA through my Catalyst Control Center, thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## Tippy

As amazing as it is that they've finally ironed out so many things, the emulator is still extremely glitchy/temperamental and my performance basically keeps falling apart the longer I play it (which is funny considering my system is pretty decent). Troubleshooting is NOT easy, there are a billion things that can go wrong and finding out the causes behind them is a long process.

I finally got Zone of the Enders - The 2nd Runner working, looks MIND-BLOWING in full resolution + 4xAA. After several hours of trying different things I"m still trying to get the game to run smoothly without the game crashing/glitching, or the PCSX2 program crashing/glitching.

I had heard all the hype of the PS3 HD re-release, saw the trailers of it...and what I'm playing right now comfortably beats that









edit: Screenshot running 2x scaling + 4xAA:


----------



## rainbowhash

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve*
> 
> Sorry to break it to you people, but a PS2 emulator when PS4 is right around the corner? Great that they did it, but...I'd rather have a PS3 emulator, since there are some games only for PS3 that aren't for PC.


Sorry to break it to you man, but i don't think people get this emulator to play modern games. If they wanted to play PS4 games then they would probably buy a PS4.


----------



## Captain318

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve*
> 
> Sorry to break it to you people, but a PS2 emulator *when PS4 is right around the corner*? Great that they did it, but...I'd rather have a PS3 emulator, since there are some games only for PS3 that aren't for PC.


What is that and when does it come out?


----------



## Perrin

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *For_the_moves*
> 
> Man, this is such awesome news. I hope my system is able to run it. Finally, I may be able to beat Shadow of the Colossus and play a few games that I had in shrink wrap for a few years now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *What's the best way of creating an iso for use with the emulator? I remember there being some special requirements for creating a PS(1) iso.*


Download ImgBurn and install , pop in the disc , choose " create image file from disc " , choose the folder for the file , click the icon on the bottom , and that is it . Pretty easy process and no special requirments that I know of .


----------



## Psyrical

I installed it and have the bios working, now I just need GT4. Anyone want to message me info on how to get that







?


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Psyrical*
> 
> I installed it and have the bios working, now I just need GT4. Anyone want to message me info on how to get that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


GT4 has some anti-piracy thing on so you can't rip it, if you have a DVD drive on the rig you're running PCSX2 on just put your copy of GT4 in the DVD drive and try it


----------



## Shrak

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> GT4 has some anti-piracy thing on so you can't rip it, if you have a DVD drive on the rig you're running PCSX2 on just put your copy of GT4 in the DVD drive and try it


Linux;

sudo dd if=/dev/cdrom of=gt4.iso


----------



## Riou

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Psyrical*
> 
> I installed it and have the bios working, now I just need GT4. Anyone want to message me info on how to get that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ?
> 
> 
> 
> GT4 has some anti-piracy thing on so you can't rip it, if you have a DVD drive on the rig you're running PCSX2 on just put your copy of GT4 in the DVD drive and try it
Click to expand...

This is not true, at least for NA version. Disc and ISO images are supposed to work.


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Riou*
> 
> This is not true, at least for NA version. Disc and ISO images are supposed to work.


I couldn't rip it with the PAL version









It's a shame really, the only rig I can run PCSX2 on is the one without a DVD drive.


----------



## Phil~

Persona 4.

Thread/


----------



## IIMaxII

Can't they make something similar to wine? Since it's not an emulator it will run faster?


----------



## Z Overlord

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *farmdve*
> 
> Sorry to break it to you people, but a PS2 emulator when PS4 is right around the corner? Great that they did it, but...I'd rather have a PS3 emulator, since there are some games only for PS3 that aren't for PC.


not everyone cares about PS3 games


----------



## Cannon19932006

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IIMaxII*
> 
> Can't they make something similar to wine? Since it's not an emulator it will run faster?


\

Not really, the problem is the different instruction sets used by the hardware on a pc, and a ps2... As where a linux machine and windows machine will generally have the same instruction sets.


----------



## IIMaxII

Oh okay then.


----------



## IIMaxII

I'm running Kingdom Hearts II final mix + and set it to 6x native resolution, but it's still running at 512x448, can anyone help?


----------



## mezmenir

Assuming they work the same way for reverse engineering the PS3 as they have the PS2, the instruction sets wouldn't matter much. I'm sure you could find out quite a bit from digging, it is just a broad purpose POWERPC based core at heart. Of course, Sony tweaked it slightly but yeah.

Though, I doubt the PS4 will be X86, that would be sort of a step backwards, at least for Sony. Even they must realize that from a "money in our pocket" standpoint, it's a lot harder to lock down an common standard than it is a custom built toy.


----------



## Mkilbride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> Just a question concerning PSCX Emulation, I've been attempting to run Shadow of the Collusus but the graphics happen to be pixelated, the performance is "meh" I suppose I can sort that out but what's bugging me is the pixelation of the graphics, has anyone got a clue why this could be the case?


SoTC requires a monster of a rig, a 2500K @ 4.5GHZ paired with even a 670 can't get full frames.


----------



## TopicClocker

Whoa, a lot of tweaking is gonna occur today then


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *mezmenir*
> 
> Assuming they work the same way for reverse engineering the PS3 as they have the PS2, the instruction sets wouldn't matter much. I'm sure you could find out quite a bit from digging, it is just a broad purpose POWERPC based core at heart. Of course, Sony tweaked it slightly but yeah.
> Though, I doubt the PS4 will be X86, that would be sort of a step backwards, at least for Sony. Even they must realize that from a "money in our pocket" standpoint, it's a lot harder to lock down an common standard than it is a custom built toy.


Of-course, I highly doubt the use of x86 also as Sony love to use "special" components such as the emotion engine which is utilized in the PS2 and the Cell Broadband engine which is utilized in the PS3, they may go for more power over the cell processor but If they wish to retain compatibility with the PS3 they'll need to have a similar architecture or PS3 components and having components from another system would cause production to be expensive.

That's why PS3s lost their compatibility with PS2 games and software emulation is just only fading in.


----------



## Mkilbride

Tweak all you want.

,The issue being is that it was designed at the end of the PS2's life.

On the PS2, it had issues running...even on the PS2 it had texture errors and frame rate issues.

And this is emulating a PS2. So..even if you run say, 600FPS, it'd still be playing like it's 15-30FPS.

Though the developers are working on "OVerclocking" the PS2 Emulator. I.e, increase the EE's MHZ and all that, so that the emulated PS2 is stronger, would get rid of such issues.

But it's highly buggy and going to only increase requirements.

As to the above posts, believe it or not, Sony contacted the PCSX2 dev team a few times - NOT to shut them down, but ironically, ask if they could use parts of the emulator in their own for the PS3's emulator.

Yeah. That happened. It's so tricky that even Sony themselves have issues creating an emulator for it...


----------



## TopicClocker

Dang, oh well I'm still gonna attempt to run SOTC, that game is mind-blowing, either that or I'll get the PS3 HD Remaster.


----------



## Mkilbride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> Dang, oh well I'm still gonna attempt to run SOTC, that game is mind-blowing, either that or I'll get the PS3 HD Remaster.


I got the PS3 remaster.

Amazon had it for like 18$ for a sale a few weeks back. Couldn't pass it up. PS3 version runs @ 30FPS, 1080p, and 4xAA, and has slightly updated textures.

PCSX2's version -could- look better, but eh, running it is tough.


----------



## Hukkel

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Telimektar*
> 
> Seem like this forum full of people calling console gamers peasants and ignorant is full of people ignorant about emulation, ironic isn't it.












It's not filled with those people but a portion is.

It's easy to outright flame consoles when you don't actually understand how stuff works.

The recent NVidia storm of misinformation isn't helping either.


----------



## Bitemarks and bloodstains

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Deluxe*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Shrak*
> 
> Using your own key with a legally obtained disc is perfectly fine. Downloading something you technically don't own is illegal. It's not even a debate.
> 
> 
> 
> Who said anything about something you don't technically own? If you own a PS2, you own the hardware and software on that machine.
> If you want a copy of that software, it is legal.
> 
> There is no way to know for someone that hosts bios files if you actually have the license, thats why Sony didn't like that.
> But like I said, it's legal to download that bios if you own a PS2
Click to expand...

You do own the hardware but not the software, all you own is a license to use the software, in the same way you own a license to use Windows. That does not give you any rights to upload the software so others can download it, in fact it is made quite clear in the EULA that any copying, sharing or distribution of the software is not allowed. Someone had to break the EULA to upload the copy of the BIOS.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Shiveron*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Shrak*
> 
> Using your own key with a legally obtained disc is perfectly fine. Downloading something you technically don't own is illegal. It's not even a debate.
> Microsoft will send you more discs before they give you an official iso download link.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong. Microsoft clear as day provides links to their iso's for anyone to download on the digital river website. They are microsoft's official digital distributor and i've verified they are legal with a MS rep before downloading them. Just like any copy of windows they will run for 30 days before they must be activated with a real key which costs as much as buying an oem disc from newegg. The operating system I am on right now was installed via usb of one of these iso downloads and verified over the phone with a MS rep that my key did indeed register with them perfectly and legally.
> 
> http://www.w7forums.com/official-windows-7-sp1-iso-image-downloads-t12325.html
Click to expand...

Yes MS will provide downloads to some of their software and as you said Digital River is an authorized distributor of that software but does not mean that downloading from unauthorized sources such as torrents or newsgroups is legal, just as if Sony released the BIOS for download on their site you couldn't just download it from a torrent and be legal. Same as films and music you can't download from torrents just because you bought a CD/DVD/Blu-Ray.


----------



## BritishBob

Awesome, time to go back and play all those awesome games I missed.


----------



## Artikbot

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Bitemarks and bloodstains*
> 
> That does not give you any rights to upload the software so others can download it, in fact it is made quite clear in the EULA that any copying, sharing or distribution of the software is not allowed. Someone had to break the EULA to upload the copy of the BIOS.


That's the thing. But if you dump your own software you can use it. Like I did. Well, except the BIOS. Don't feel like ripping my consoles apart... For now


----------



## ThePath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> Just a question concerning PSCX Emulation, I've been attempting to run Shadow of the Collusus but the graphics happen to be pixelated, the performance is "meh" I suppose I can sort that out but what's bugging me is the pixelation of the graphics, has anyone got a clue why this could be the case?


Did you try speed hacks ?

You will get huge speed boost in shadow of collusus specially if you use "VU Cycle stealing" hack


----------



## Xaero252

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Retnu16*
> 
> Too bad you need to own a ps2 to get the bios or else it's ILLEGAL!!!


I'm sorry, but you're wrong. Part of PCSX2's code (although I'm not sure how well developed, the last commit was in 2008 - but I think thats because it just needs to chainload elfs) is the fps2bios which is an open source implementation of the PS2 bios. This doesn't require a PS2 to obtain, and should (in theory) at least allow the booting of most (if not all) games, with exceptions like FFXI: Online, and other games that require the BIOS's built-in launcher/browser to launch. I'm currently compiling the latest SVN build of PCSX2, and the fps2 bios, and will be playing my large library of PS2 games from the days before my laser died on PC in a gloriously upscaled fashion - sans PS2.


----------



## Mkilbride

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *ThePath*
> 
> Did you try speed hacks ?
> You will get huge speed boost in shadow of collusus specially if you use "VU Cycle stealing" hack


Actually, no. I've been on the PCSX2 forums for years, and several times the devs have said this is "Fake", it is tricking the counter to display 30FPS or so, but it isn't actually, and you can tell, because the game is still jerky and slow.

Speed hacks are very picky and don't work well with all games.


----------



## Xaero252

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mkilbride*
> 
> Actually, no. I've been on the PCSX2 forums for years, and several times the devs have said this is "Fake", it is tricking the counter to display 30FPS or so, but it isn't actually, and you can tell, because the game is still jerky and slow.
> Speed hacks are very picky and don't work well with all games.


Actually, if you enable speed hacks nowadays, some of them are even recommended since they have high compatibility with most games, and give a rather respectable speed boost. The VU Cycle Stealing hack is actually required for a couple of titles, since the VU ends up waiting on misc threads that don't have high priority due to the VU being highest priority, and it ends up recursively slowing performance down. Forcing the VU to be lower priority and allowing the VM to spend more cycles on other operations causes the VU to in turn end up running more quickly, its kinda weird, but then, the PS2 wasn't exactly your run of the mill hardware.


----------



## cdoublejj

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *SilkyJohnson*
> 
> I am wondering the same thing. How in the world can our modern day high end sandy/sb-e/ ivy processors not emulate a ps2? In theory id think any decent machine with one any of those processors would completely crush a ps2 or a ps3 in any comparable scenario. Anyone care to chime in and enlighten us?


because it has to emulate the hardware and while emulating that hard ware make the same computation thats hardware makes so it's like slow software with the added burden of triple duty calculation.


----------



## Junkboy

So after reading all post I only have one question.....Where is our The Last Guardian......Sony's really dropping the ball and is almost at a Capcom/Inafune type level with Ueda.........







I hope the game gets done by the end of the year.............but it might go the way of Legends 3









OT; The Emu is fun though, luckily my collection is still intact so I have tons of games to try. CvS 2 and Silent Hill 2 here I come!!!!! (when I wake up in the afternoon)


----------



## icanhasburgers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IIMaxII*
> 
> I'm running Kingdom Hearts II final mix + and set it to 6x native resolution, but it's still running at 512x448, can anyone help?


It will say the game's original resolution at the top like you see it no matter what you set the scale to. Trust me, it is rendering the game at a larger resolution, however PCSX2 doesn't tell you what the exact resolution is now at in the top bit of the window. Just the way it is i'm afraid!


----------



## sage101

I'm still getting a GREEN SCREEN background in God of War 2 with this new emulator however the fps is very good 55-60. Does any1 know how to fix the GREEN SCREEN issue on GOW2?


----------



## petran79

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Telimektar*
> 
> Seem like this forum full of people calling console gamers peasants and ignorant is full of people ignorant about emulation, ironic isn't it.


I remember at one point, PCSX2 developers and forums were regarded negatively (anime weebos) because they had their focus on emulating Japanese PS2 games, instead of Western games.


----------



## StormX2

oh this is great news

my PS2 has not been in Happy Disc Reading mode for a looooong time.

man Id love to play Need for Speed Underground 2 again

might be a few old school RPG's I could look to play again too

also, someone mentioned that PS3 was too hardcore for PC hardware, sort of incorrect, PC Hardware blows the PS3 out of the water, BUT

Emulation isnt perfect. You need quite a bit of hardware to run Emulators, this is why you wont see PS3 emulator in decent condition for quite some time.

I remember when Neo Geo Emulators were really rolling out, my PC couldnt handle it for beans until I upgraded to much more Ram

but I dont remember what PC it was I was using -.-

Must have been around 1997??


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Junkboy*
> 
> So after reading all post I only have one question.....Where is our The Last Guardian......Sony's really dropping the ball and is almost at a Capcom/Inafune type level with Ueda.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope the game gets done by the end of the year.............but it might go the way of Legends 3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OT; The Emu is fun though, luckily my collection is still intact so I have tons of games to try. CvS 2 and Silent Hill 2 here I come!!!!! (when I wake up in the afternoon)


The Last Guardian is a game made by Team Ico, the developers which are responsible for Ico and Shadow of the Colossus It's a PS3 title and I predict It'll be mind-blowing like the previous games from Team Ico, even though I have no Idea what the game is about, it would probably be a sequel to Shadow of the Colossus.


----------



## Pao

What if I just threw my PS2 away a month ago because the darned thing broke on me? Am I allowed to download the bios from somewhere since I have now bought 2 of the systems in my lifetime and both have broken and been thrown away? Or am I required to buy yet a 3rd console to play this stack of PS2 games I have?


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pao*
> 
> What if I just threw my PS2 away a month ago because the darned thing broke on me? Am I allowed to download the bios from somewhere since I have now bought 2 of the systems in my lifetime and both have broken and been thrown away? Or am I required to buy yet a 3rd console to play this stack of PS2 games I have?


Shouldn't have thrown it away







Once you get rid of it you no long have the rights to the software on it. So yes you do need to buy another console if you want to play the games (even if you use the emulator and not the console)


----------



## Boinz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mkilbride*
> 
> SoTC requires a monster of a rig, a 2500K @ 4.5GHZ paired with even a 670 can't get full frames.


He has a point, even when SotC came out, it would have 20fps dips mostly during cinematics and colussus battles




So either get the PS3 reissue which is at a CONSTANT 30fps no matter what, or consider yourself lucky in getting more than 24 fps with SotC with the emulator. Having a decent graphics card helps, but my current rig has CPU at 55% across all 4 cores and 30% GPU usage. I may get 45FPS in some areas, but never when horse back riding, but it will usually dip into 20-30 especially when fighting the colussuses (colussi?, whats the plural of colossus?)


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boinz*
> 
> He has a point, even when SotC came out, it would have 20fps dips mostly during cinematics and colussus battles
> 
> 
> 
> So either get the PS3 reissue which is at a CONSTANT 30fps no matter what, or consider yourself lucky in getting more than 24 fps with SotC with the emulator. Having a decent graphics card helps, but my current rig has CPU at 55% across all 4 cores and 30% GPU usage. I may get 45FPS in some areas, but never when horse back riding, but it will usually dip into 20-30 especially when fighting the colussuses (colussi?, whats the plural of colossus?)


Shadow of the Colossus was pushing the PS2 to It's limits, ironically it's doing the same with my Rig which has an Identical processor to yours, I get about 65% usage with 1080p res, I've been on and off testing the emulation of the game and configuring settings but even with my CPU at 4GHZ It's being brought to It's knees, I need to invest in a 3570K by Christmas or wait for haswells next year or something, wait until PS3 emulation comes out in 3 or more years time, the Killzone and Uncharted series will bring computers skyrocketing into 5 or less frames per second.

I feel evil but It's kind of "fun" watching my computer struggle trying to emulate a system and a game.


----------



## Tippy

I don't get it because the CPU (or GPU) aren't showing 100% usage. So how is it bringing current hardware to it's knees if it isn't even using the hardware?


----------



## IIMaxII

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *icanhasburgers*
> 
> It will say the game's original resolution at the top like you see it no matter what you set the scale to. Trust me, it is rendering the game at a larger resolution, however PCSX2 doesn't tell you what the exact resolution is now at in the top bit of the window. Just the way it is i'm afraid!


It doesn't even look any better, with it at 6x native, with 8xaa.







something must be wrong.


----------



## Boinz

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IIMaxII*
> 
> It doesn't even look any better, with it at 6x native, with 8xaa.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> something must be wrong.


Depends on the game too.


----------



## IIMaxII

Any this weird glitchy thing follows my character everywhere. Anyone know what causes that?

Hmm just noticed I get this in the console when going to config, then plugin/bios selector.

Path: C:\Program Files (x86)\PCSX2 1.0.0\Plugins\gsdx32-avx-r5350.dll
File is not a valid dynamic library.
Some kinda plugin failure: C:\Program Files (x86)\PCSX2 1.0.0\Plugins\gsdx32-avx-r5350.dll


----------



## nitd_kim

Kind of weird to see new wave of overclock.net users that have no experience with emulation or how it works.


----------



## CJRhoades

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nitd_kim*
> 
> Kind of weird to see new wave of overclock.net users that have no experience with emulation or how it works.


No kidding. Running Pokemon games on DeSmuME works my i5 at 70%+. The DS's CPUs only run at 67 and 33.5MHz. Emulating even the simplest things takes a huge amount of resources.


----------



## Captain318

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *nitd_kim*
> 
> Kind of weird to see new wave of overclock.net users that have no experience with emulation or how it works.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *CJRhoades*
> 
> No kidding. Running Pokemon games on DeSmuME works my i5 at 70%+. The DS's CPUs only run at 67 and 33.5MHz. Emulating even the simplest things takes a huge amount of resources.


QFT


----------



## Xaero252

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IIMaxII*
> 
> 
> Any this weird glitchy thing follows my character everywhere. Anyone know what causes that?
> Hmm just noticed I get this in the console when going to config, then plugin/bios selector.
> Path: C:\Program Files (x86)\PCSX2 1.0.0\Plugins\gsdx32-avx-r5350.dll
> File is not a valid dynamic library.
> Some kinda plugin failure: C:\Program Files (x86)\PCSX2 1.0.0\Plugins\gsdx32-avx-r5350.dll


Shadow issues have been in many games for a long time, especially shadows cast by a character model. That is probably what you are seeing there, you may be able to fix it by playing with some settings, or enabling/disabling many speed/rendering hacks, Google around and see if you can find a thread for that specific title.

As far as your GSDX-avx issue, GSDX-AVX will ONLY WORK (i.e. won't even load) on a processor that supports the 256-bit AVX Instruction set, and is ONLY a true performance increase in SOFTWARE MODE. The AVX instruction only affects software mode because hardware mode runs on your GPU, instead of your CPU, so the AVX instructions are never even called. Keep in mind, if you have a processor that has shared AVX between two threads (MOST i7 users) the AVX execution will suffer a performance hit if you have the secondary threads on each core enabled (since the non-AVX thread must wait for the AVX instruction to finish before completing execution)
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tippy*
> 
> I don't get it because the CPU (or GPU) aren't showing 100% usage. So how is it bringing current hardware to it's knees if it isn't even using the hardware?


Excellent question, actually. If you pay attention to your performance monitors, you will note that a maximum 3 (maybe even 4) threads will be at 100%, the rest being idle. You may think, at first glance, that this is poor development for modern hardware, however it is simply a limitation of what we can do to emulate. Due to the nature of emulation, race conditions between threads are a huge issue, even with very very complicated and well oriented sync code. To help alleviate this, emulation of an individual portion of a system is limited to effectively one thread. The Emotion Engine (PS2's main CPU) is one thread, the Reality Synthesizer (GPU) is another, and the DSP/IO is the last piece of the puzzle. Presuming that for a particular title, a 4.2ghz i7 920 is capable of 100% (or higher) speed emulation of the EE, and 100% (or higher) emulation of the RS (AKA VU) then any leftover resources can be dedicated to upscaling etc. If any piece of the puzzle (most specifically the EE) drops below the 100% threshold, EVERYTHING MUST TAKE A PERFORMANCE HIT or thing start getting really buggy. If the EE drops below 100% it isn't making calls to the VU at normal speed and therefore the VU isn't doing anything because the EE hasn't told it to, so it just waits on the EE in this case.

Unfortunately, because the EE is single threaded, you can't really split emulation of a single thread into multiple threads very well. But, there is much optimization available still in this situation (which PCSX2 does take advantage of) Since we are having to interpret code on the fly, we have the capability of developing a Dynamic Recompiler (Dynarec for short) a dynarec can be built to use 2 threads per input thread (so a quad core optimized dynarec could use 8 threads on the target platform) The basic idea is one thread to decompile and interpret, and the other thread to execute. I believe there is a significant diminishing return on a multithreaded dynarec past two threads, and no point past 3 (Decompile, interpret and execute threads) except in the most complex of hardware, which you typically wouldn't want to emulate anyways.


----------



## venomblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IIMaxII*
> 
> 
> Any this weird glitchy thing follows my character everywhere. Anyone know what causes that?
> Hmm just noticed I get this in the console when going to config, then plugin/bios selector.
> Path: C:\Program Files (x86)\PCSX2 1.0.0\Plugins\gsdx32-avx-r5350.dll
> File is not a valid dynamic library.
> Some kinda plugin failure: C:\Program Files (x86)\PCSX2 1.0.0\Plugins\gsdx32-avx-r5350.dll


I see your health isn't showing to Config>Video(GS)>Plugin Settings and check off Logarithmic Z. Should fix it.

KH2FM ftw


----------



## Junkboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> Quote:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by *Junkboy*
> 
> So after reading all post I only have one question.....Where is our The Last Guardian......Sony's really dropping the ball and is almost at a Capcom/Inafune type level with Ueda.........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope the game gets done by the end of the year.............but it might go the way of Legends 3
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OT; The Emu is fun though, luckily my collection is still intact so I have tons of games to try. CvS 2 and Silent Hill 2 here I come!!!!! (when I wake up in the afternoon)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Last Guardian is a game made by Team Ico, the developers which are responsible for Ico and Shadow of the Colossus It's a PS3 title and I predict It'll be mind-blowing like the previous games from Team Ico, even though I have no Idea what the game is about, it would probably be a sequel to Shadow of the Colossus.
Click to expand...

You miss understand me...... I know what the game is and who's making it. My post was merely eluding to the fact that with all the delays, the hush hush about the title, plus the two main heads of the studio leaving Sony, even though Ueda is still helping, it just feels like the game might really take a hit because it. Even if we see a release by this year (which isn't looking too good) that's already a one year delay.

When head honchos leave a development team during the production of a big title it is never a good thing, regardless of how people and companies spin it.

Btw this thing runs great but I'm wondering if it would run better on CF 5870's....... I'll try that when I get some down time in the coming weeks. Before then anyone if this emu favors one camp more than the other? I know it used to favor NV a few years ago but not sure if things have changed in the PS2 world.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Tippy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Xaero252*
> 
> Shadow issues have been in many games for a long time, especially shadows cast by a character model. That is probably what you are seeing there, you may be able to fix it by playing with some settings, or enabling/disabling many speed/rendering hacks, Google around and see if you can find a thread for that specific title.
> As far as your GSDX-avx issue, GSDX-AVX will ONLY WORK (i.e. won't even load) on a processor that supports the 256-bit AVX Instruction set, and is ONLY a true performance increase in SOFTWARE MODE. The AVX instruction only affects software mode because hardware mode runs on your GPU, instead of your CPU, so the AVX instructions are never even called. Keep in mind, if you have a processor that has shared AVX between two threads (MOST i7 users) the AVX execution will suffer a performance hit if you have the secondary threads on each core enabled (since the non-AVX thread must wait for the AVX instruction to finish before completing execution)
> 
> Excellent question, actually. If you pay attention to your performance monitors, you will note that a maximum 3 (maybe even 4) threads will be at 100%, the rest being idle. You may think, at first glance, that this is poor development for modern hardware, however it is simply a limitation of what we can do to emulate. Due to the nature of emulation, race conditions between threads are a huge issue, even with very very complicated and well oriented sync code. To help alleviate this, emulation of an individual portion of a system is limited to effectively one thread. The Emotion Engine (PS2's main CPU) is one thread, the Reality Synthesizer (GPU) is another, and the DSP/IO is the last piece of the puzzle. Presuming that for a particular title, a 4.2ghz i7 920 is capable of 100% (or higher) speed emulation of the EE, and 100% (or higher) emulation of the RS (AKA VU) then any leftover resources can be dedicated to upscaling etc. If any piece of the puzzle (most specifically the EE) drops below the 100% threshold, EVERYTHING MUST TAKE A PERFORMANCE HIT or thing start getting really buggy. If the EE drops below 100% it isn't making calls to the VU at normal speed and therefore the VU isn't doing anything because the EE hasn't told it to, so it just waits on the EE in this case.
> Unfortunately, because the EE is single threaded, you can't really split emulation of a single thread into multiple threads very well. But, there is much optimization available still in this situation (which PCSX2 does take advantage of) Since we are having to interpret code on the fly, we have the capability of developing a Dynamic Recompiler (Dynarec for short) a dynarec can be built to use 2 threads per input thread (so a quad core optimized dynarec could use 8 threads on the target platform) The basic idea is one thread to decompile and interpret, and the other thread to execute. I believe there is a significant diminishing return on a multithreaded dynarec past two threads, and no point past 3 (Decompile, interpret and execute threads) except in the most complex of hardware, which you typically wouldn't want to emulate anyways.


Wow, thanks for this. Did you help develop some emulator(s)? You certainly seem to know how they work through-and-through :O


----------



## Death Saved

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Pao*
> 
> What if I just threw my PS2 away a month ago because the darned thing broke on me? Am I allowed to download the bios from somewhere since I have now bought 2 of the systems in my lifetime and both have broken and been thrown away? Or am I required to buy yet a 3rd console to play this stack of PS2 games I have?


Well since you threw your old PS2 you cant legally download the bios except if you still have proof of ownership (a receipt for example) or if you buy a used (broken even) PS2, note that what i just said may not apply in all countries.


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Junkboy*
> 
> You miss understand me...... I know what the game is and who's making it. My post was merely eluding to the fact that with all the delays, the hush hush about the title, plus the two main heads of the studio leaving Sony, even though Ueda is still helping, it just feels like the game might really take a hit because it. Even if we see a release by this year (which isn't looking too good) that's already a one year delay.
> When head honchos leave a development team during the production of a big title it is never a good thing, regardless of how people and companies spin it.
> Btw this thing runs great but I'm wondering if it would run better on CF 5870's....... I'll try that when I get some down time in the coming weeks. Before then anyone if this emu favors one camp more than the other? I know it used to favor NV a few years ago but not sure if things have changed in the PS2 world.
> Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2


Yeah sorry I read over your post again a couple of minutes after posting my reply and forgot to edit or delete my post my bad.


----------



## Telimektar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Death Saved*
> 
> Well since you threw your old PS2 you cant legally download the bios except if you still have proof of ownership (a receipt for example) or if you buy a used (broken even) PS2, note that what i just said may not apply in all countries.


You can't download the BIOS legally even if you have a 1000 PS2. You're supposed to dump the BIOS from your own machine.


----------



## Ksireaper

Once i get home its time to fire up the PS2.

Gonna spend the night playing some Baldurs Gate: Dark alliance and Champions of Norrath. Such great games.


----------



## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Death Saved*
> 
> Well since you threw your old PS2 you cant legally download the bios except if you still have proof of ownership (a receipt for example) or if you buy a used (broken even) PS2, note that what i just said may not apply in all countries.


uploading/downloading bios is illegal, whether you have a ps2 or not.


----------



## sixor

does anybody knows how to bix weird lines in tekken 5 fullscreen

also, why some games look so blurry even on 3x scaling? gran turismo 4?, in dolphin i can do 3x in any game looking awesome, but on pcsx2 not, also 3x is very demanding on some games using 99%gpu


----------



## StormX2

looks liek I should nto bother trying to use this emulator lol

people with machines better than mine appear to be struggling =(


----------



## icanhasburgers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sixor*
> 
> does anybody knows how to bix weird lines in tekken 5 fullscreen
> also, why some games look so blurry even on 3x scaling? gran turismo 4?, in dolphin i can do 3x in any game looking awesome, but on pcsx2 not, also 3x is very demanding on some games using 99%gpu


Set interlacing to Auto for GT4. GT4 in Hardware Render Mode is a bit weird in the sense it doesn't have the full effects of the game when played on a PS2, however the quality should be a bit better. Scaling 2-3 + 2xMSAA should clear up any jaggies, however i do not experience any blurriness of any kind since i started using PCSX2 years ago.
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StormX2*
> 
> looks liek I should nto bother trying to use this emulator lol
> people with machines better than mine appear to be struggling =(


You'll be fine, don't worry.


----------



## ThePath

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *StormX2*
> 
> looks liek I should nto bother trying to use this emulator lol
> people with machines better than mine appear to be struggling =(


It depends on the game and configurations

My laptop has i7 3612QM and was able to play a lot of games at full speed.


----------



## Boinz

One thing, it would better if you have an intel CPU, and I'm not trying to say intel is better in general, i mean in the emulator there is an area where you can use SSSE3 AND SSE4.1, but only intel supports that instruction set.
http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-SSSE3-and-SSE4-1-Not-Detected-But-supported-by-CPU

Me, i'm stuck with a 955BE, would love to see the difference in performance tho. Might need to _kick_ my brother off a bit to try his duo core with SSSE3.


----------



## Mobius01

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sixor*
> 
> does anybody knows how to bix weird lines in tekken 5 fullscreen


It's a common problem with Namco games - they don't like being run at high resolutions.

You have to set it to a custom resolution like 1080x1920 or 720x1280. Yeah, I know it's backwards, but it works. The PCSX2 devs recommended it to me.


----------



## MaxFTW

Should i download 1.0? lol

May be silly but im running SVN 5277

Just been playing steel lancer arena with my standard settings x4 res and tbh, It ran better than any other game i have played i think

No bugs at all, the odd bit of slowdown that never came back 

Also what about save states? Are they backed up via file?


----------



## KarmaKiller

Just played a few rounds of Socom I and II. Man I love that series..


----------



## Phil~

My card is bandwidth starved lol.

Ran Final Fantasy 12 at 4096 x 4096 with 16AA with sharpening filters. The 670 was winded pretty freaking fast


----------



## TopicClocker

Considering the Xbox 1 is known to be more powerful than the PS2 those that mean that Xbox emulators can and have been made? I've looked around and haven't seen anything and considering how complex the PS2's hardware is could open the possibility to have an Xbox 1 emulator which has a Pentium III 733MHz CPU or would that complicate things even further?


----------



## Phil~

There is very few Dev's working on Xbox Emulation, there was never a very powerful push for it(mostly shared library with PC titles) so no fresh talent took a crack at it.


----------



## sixor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Mobius01*
> 
> It's a common problem with Namco games - they don't like being run at high resolutions.
> You have to set it to a custom resolution like 1080x1920 or 720x1280. Yeah, I know it's backwards, but it works. The PCSX2 devs recommended it to me.


thanks
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Boinz*
> 
> One thing, it would better if you have an intel CPU, and I'm not trying to say intel is better in general, i mean in the emulator there is an area where you can use SSSE3 AND SSE4.1, but only intel supports that instruction set.
> http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-SSSE3-and-SSE4-1-Not-Detected-But-supported-by-CPU
> Me, i'm stuck with a 955BE, would love to see the difference in performance tho. Might need to _kick_ my brother off a bit to try his duo core with SSSE3.


actually in emulator intel cpus show how better they are agains amd, i had a [email protected] with dolphin and pcsx2, and my [email protected] kills amd around 2x more performance
Quote:


> Originally Posted by *icanhasburgers*
> 
> Set interlacing to Auto for GT4. GT4 in Hardware Render Mode is a bit weird in the sense it doesn't have the full effects of the game when played on a PS2, however the quality should be a bit better. Scaling 2-3 + 2xMSAA should clear up any jaggies, however i do not experience any blurriness of any kind since i started using PCSX2 years ago.
> You'll be fine, don't worry.


thanks i use 3x scaling on 1440*900 res, and i get blurry graphics, if i force render 1440 res i get sharp image but don´t know how that affect other things , how about speedhacks? being gt4 one of the top 5 games with better graphics

also this question for

mgs3
shadow of the colossus
gt4


----------



## TopicClocker

Almost all the Blur in my SOTC has dissapeared, i've cranked up the MSAA to 4X and my resolution to 1440x900 from 1920x1080 to increase performance slightly, It's still not running buttery smooth but It's stable for now, I think that the FPS must be 15-25 and sometimes 30fps, It's impossible to tell since the framerate readings are incorrect due to the usage of speedhackls, but without the hacks it shows about 32 and decreases.

I've fought two Collosi and I'ts running quite well and the graphics have dramatically improved over the PS2.

EE Cycle Rate: 2
VU Cycle Stealing: 1
and recommended speedhacks on.


----------



## icanhasburgers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sixor*
> 
> thanks
> actually in emulator intel cpus show how better they are agains amd, i had a [email protected] with dolphin and pcsx2, and my [email protected] kills amd around 2x more performance
> thanks i use 3x scaling on 1440*900 res, and i get blurry graphics, if i force render 1440 res i get sharp image but don´t know how that affect other things , how about speedhacks? being gt4 one of the top 5 games with better graphics
> also this question for
> mgs3
> shadow of the colossus
> gt4


Here are my PCSX2 settings, in which i mostly play GT4 and have tuned them to my best of abilities to what i get performance wise out of them, compatibility wise and quality wise.

Before i say anything: regarding the blurriness you're talking about, try enable Aggressive-CRC in the Hacks section shown in the screenshot. If you hover over it with your mouse it'll give you a description of what it does, but basically it gets rid of some effects to improve sharpness. Haven't tried it myself as it may break the game or cause artifacts/incorrect (or lack of) effects!

EDIT: The key to GT4 performance is no VU stealing.

















Hope that helps people


----------



## icanhasburgers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *MaxFTW*
> 
> Should i download 1.0? lol
> May be silly but im running SVN 5277
> Just been playing steel lancer arena with my standard settings x4 res and tbh, It ran better than any other game i have played i think
> No bugs at all, the odd bit of slowdown that never came back
> Also what about save states? Are they backed up via file?


Download 1.0, as the SVN builds are not put together using the PGO build compiling optimizations, meaning the 1.0 build from the site is 10% faster than SVN builds.


----------



## sixor

gt4 runs beautiful on my pc, evern without speedhacks (only multicore and others, not the ones with sliders)

but wow, my gtx460 is punished with 1440*900 3x image scaling, i can´t do msaa or 4x, also use all the vram, comapred to dolphin i can do 4x on almost any game

i don´t know how i fixed blurry image on race, but on replays there is some blurriness, maybe some ps2 postprocess filter


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *sixor*
> 
> gt4 runs beautiful on my pc, evern without speedhacks (only multicore and others, not the ones with sliders)
> but wow, my gtx460 is punished with 1440*900 3x image scaling, i can´t do msaa or 4x, also use all the vram, comapred to dolphin i can do 4x on almost any game
> i don´t know how i fixed blurry image on race, but on replays there is some blurriness, maybe some ps2 postprocess filter


Hang on a sec, are you running DX11 Hardware as the renderer? you need to run DX9 to remove the pixelation of the image


----------



## IIMaxII

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *venomblade*
> 
> I see your health isn't showing to Config>Video(GS)>Plugin Settings and check off Logarithmic Z. Should fix it.
> KH2FM ftw


lmao, I would have never realized this until you pointed it out, it was shown in the seifer battle though, +rep .


----------



## IIMaxII

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IIMaxII*
> 
> lmao, I would have never realized this until you pointed it out, it was shown in the seifer battle though, +rep .


I can't uncheck it in direct3d11 should I just run dx9?


----------



## sixor

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> Hang on a sec, are you running DX11 Hardware as the renderer? you need to run DX9 to remove the pixelation of the image


yep dx11

will try thanks


----------



## Vagrant Storm

hmm I wonder if this is all that much different than the beta PCX2 I downloaded about a week ago. the gdsx plugin that was included was the only real big thing over anything I've tried before. Actual AA can be applied now. The beta did have support for more than two threads, but it didn't give me any noticeable performance increase. I was still maxing out at 3x native resolution to say around 60fps (though now with 4xAA)

I might have to try this tonight.


----------



## IIMaxII

I fixed my problem, by disabling hardware hacks, kingdom hearts doesn't like hacks.











There is a ghosting like thing though, even though there's no movement...


----------



## venomblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *IIMaxII*
> 
> I fixed my problem, by disabling hardware hacks, kingdom hearts doesn't like hacks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a ghosting like thing though, even though there's no movement...


Yep I have ghosting in nearly every game I try. It happens when I've set my custom resolution above native. I'll keep 6x native with some ghosting in comparison to using the ps2's ugly native res.


----------



## icanhasburgers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *venomblade*
> 
> Yep I have ghosting in nearly every game I try. It happens when I've set my custom resolution above native. I'll keep 6x native with some ghosting in comparison to using the ps2's ugly native res.


Try ticking "Half-pixel Offset", "Alpha", and set "Skip Draw" to 1 in the GSDX hacks bit. Might be a very mild bloom/post-process effect not lining up with the drawn pixels on screen. If that doesn't work then i'm not sure what to do next. I would recommend changing the EE/VU settings like None to Clamp/nearest or whatever as that can have an effect, but i have no experience with them in particular, plus "None" is the fastest setting, as you go down on the tick list your performance will decrease. It may not be 10-20fps, it could be 0.2fps (random number), but that's generally how it works.


----------



## Qu1ckset

how do i get 360 controller to work on this ??


----------



## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> how do i get 360 controller to work on this ??


explaining how to do that will just derail this thread, i suggest just creating a new thread about your question


----------



## TopicClocker

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> how do i get 360 controller to work on this ??


Check this out, this told me how to do it, you require a wired controller or possibly a wireless controller with a charger which plugs into your PC.


----------



## Tippy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Qu1ckset*
> 
> how do i get 360 controller to work on this ??


360 controller should be plug-and-play with windows....so all you should need to do is open PCSX2 > Config > Controllers (PAD) > Plugin Settings > Select DirectInput (or Xbox 360 controller input).

> Pad 1 > set all the buttons manually if you need to.


----------



## venomblade

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tippy*
> 
> 360 controller should be plug-and-play with windows....so all you should need to do is open PCSX2 > Config > Controllers (PAD) > Plugin Settings > Select DirectInput (or Xbox 360 controller input).
> > Pad 1 > set all the buttons manually if you need to.


Yep, this. I do the same, but I use motioninjoy to emulate a 360 controller with my ps3 controller and then I set my keys as Tippy said.


----------



## Qu1ckset

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Tippy*
> 
> 360 controller should be plug-and-play with windows....so all you should need to do is open PCSX2 > Config > Controllers (PAD) > Plugin Settings > Select DirectInput (or Xbox 360 controller input).
> > Pad 1 > set all the buttons manually if you need to.


thanks +1rep


----------



## Vagrant Storm

So I tried this build out...I don't see any difference from the SVN 5347 version I've been using lately.


----------



## TopicClocker

O.O Sorry I forgot to post the Link how stupid of me...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpJBu96V6do


----------



## Vagrant Storm

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *venomblade*
> 
> Yep I have ghosting in nearly every game I try. It happens when I've set my custom resolution above native. I'll keep 6x native with some ghosting in comparison to using the ps2's ugly native res.


Actually I can fix that by pressing F9(?) twice...or whatever the hot key is to switch from hardware mode to software mode. Just a quick tap into software mode and back to hardware mode will relieve a lot of issues for me...like ghosting and garbage being displayed around the edges of a FMV.

Though most games will be well over 1080p at 4x native...in fact...I think all of them would be. At 6x you would have a higher resolution PS2 game coming out at 3840x2880 onto a 1080p monitor(though from what I've read very few PS2 games were actually 640x480 natively). That might be the issue as well. I always run at 3x native with 4x AA hardware hack running and ghosting is a rare issue for me and any higher setting would be wasted I believe. I know I can't see a difference between 3x and 4x


----------



## paulerxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *TopicClocker*
> 
> Check this out, this told me how to do it, you require a wired controller or possibly a wireless controller with a charger which plugs into your PC.


You can't play on PC through the charger, you have to buy an adapter.


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *paulerxx*
> 
> You can't play on PC through the charger, you have to buy an adapter.


If your computer has bluetooth you should be able to use it wirelessly as well.


----------



## Telimektar

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> If your computer has bluetooth you should be able to use it wirelessly as well.


As far as I know the wireless 360 controller uses radio frequency not bluetooth (unlike the PS3 controller), so you will need the wireless adapter.


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Telimektar*
> 
> As far as I know the wireless 360 controller uses radio frequency not bluetooth (unlike the PS3 controller), so you will need the wireless adapter.


Bluetooth is a radio frequency.


----------



## zooterboy

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *Telimektar*
> 
> As far as I know the wireless 360 controller uses radio frequency not bluetooth (unlike the PS3 controller), so you will need the wireless adapter.


Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> Bluetooth is a radio frequency.


Bluetooth is a communications standard, using the 2.4GHz band frequency, just like most wireless landline phones and wireless APs (and xbox 360 controllers). So, same frequency range, different protocol.


----------



## andrews2547

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *zooterboy*
> 
> It's a communications standard, using the 2.4GHz band frequency, just like most wireless landline phones and wireless APs (and xbox 360 controllers). So, same frequency range, different protocol.


Exactly







Bluetooth operates at 2400-2480 MHz.


----------



## paulerxx

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> If your computer has bluetooth you should be able to use it wirelessly as well.


I'm pretty sure you still need the wireless adapter Microsoft made...

http://www.instructables.com/answers/how-can-i-use-my-wireless-Xbox-360-controller-on-t/
http://www.xboxcool.com/xbox-game-accessories/how-to-use-wireless-xbox-360-controller-on-pc-without-the-receiver.html


----------



## ghostrider85

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *andrews2547*
> 
> If your computer has bluetooth you should be able to use it wirelessly as well.


ps3 and wii controllers uses bluetooth, xbox uses different.


----------



## LesPaulLover

From what I understand the PS2 has literally 5 different types or processors in it, all of which are almost always working in parallel.

You can refer to this thread here for more info if you're interested: http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-Why-is-PCSX2-slow

I'm not sure why they can't simply emulate the code to work on 5 different CPU cores, but that's the general problem.

Each "ps2 processor" has to be emulated individually, all of the data translated to a language PC CPUs can understand, then executed. This all has to be done in the same amount of time the 5 separate processors in the PS2 are able to do it, while all working in parallel.


----------



## icanhasburgers

Quote:


> Originally Posted by *LesPaulLover*
> 
> From what I understand the PS2 has literally 5 different types or processors in it, all of which are almost always working in parallel.
> You can refer to this thread here for more info if you're interested: http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-Why-is-PCSX2-slow
> I'm not sure why they can't simply emulate the code to work on 5 different CPU cores, but that's the general problem.
> Each "ps2 processor" has to be emulated individually, all of the data translated to a language PC CPUs can understand, then executed. This all has to be done in the same amount of time the 5 separate processors in the PS2 are able to do it, while all working in parallel.


Because then it wouldn't work on any other processor that didn't have 5 or more cores, plus that would be INCREDIBLY hard to do. They wouldn't be able to get the timing right, which is what matters 100% regarding PS2 hardware. It's the stop/start/stop/start way it's done that slows it down, but nowadays it's pretty slick.


----------



## emeraldlotus

its not that the ps3 is more powerfull but when it comes to emulators the computer has to be exponentially higher than the base system.


----------

